# Choke collars



## FjD (Oct 6, 2013)

Can someone please tell if metallic choke collars are bad or good.
Some people say they are bad for the dog's neck, is this true? 

The choke collar my dog is using looks like this









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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Not a fan


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## PhoenixGuardian (Jul 10, 2013)

(Is it allowed for me to add a question to this thread?) Which do you guys prefer, chokes or prongs?
I've always used chokes, but people on here seem to use mostly prongs.
Just curious!


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## FjD (Oct 6, 2013)

PhoenixGuardian said:


> (Is it allowed for me to add a question to this thread?) Which do you guys prefer, chokes or prongs?
> I've always used chokes, but people on here seem to use mostly prongs.
> Just curious!


 I have used choke since my dog was 7 months old, and it has been perfectly fine, but a trainer told me that it could harm her neck.

IMO prongs look scary lol 


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

Like all training tools it depends on how it's used. 
I've seen dogs & pups with chokes on that all they do is pull and strangle cause the owners do not know how to use them. Same with a prong it's all in how it's used. 
As to which one I prefer depends on the dog, Frank I used a prong on he learned better with it. All other collars he ignored. 
With my new pup Rowdy I use mostly a nylon martingale, he has had a chain on a couple of times, but not used for corrections, since he didn't need them. 
Rowdy is the type pup that learns better with mostly positive training, he honestly gets his feelings hurt and shuts down with a physical correction. 
Frank on the other hand sometimes had to have a pretty good correction to make him understand it was going to be my way and not his!


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

I put a prong on one of my legs and a choke on the other and gave them both a pull and the choke hurt a lot more. My dog also reacts better to a prong.


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

We use a choke. With either collar the dog can hurt itself if straining against it. All the dogs I've had have responded well to a quick snap and release of the chain collar as a correction, so that's what we always use! 


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

what was said...

Depends on how you use it.

I prefer a prong, properly fit and properly used.

my dogs wear no collar on their own 
property.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

I use one in one of the training classes. It's not liek the one pictured. It has more of a whale tail on the end. If the dog is not pulling it will not tighten. I never give corrections so strong that it could hurt the puppy. 

I also have a fursaver. It technically can be used as a choke, but the way I was shown to use it it will not choke. The dog will pull more when I use that one.

When we are home the collars are off. I also have a martingale. That is the collar I prefer. It's just to big for the puppy right now.


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## KayForbes (Jan 14, 2013)

I have heard/seen bad things from a choke, but again it depends on how/who is using it. I prefer pinch collars because I feel that they understand this correction more because it is made to simulate how a mother would correct the pups.

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## 45yearsofGSDs (Sep 19, 2013)

I try to discourage owners from using them. Saw 2 dogs playing once: one grabbed the other's collar and got caught - other dog was strangled because of it.


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## FjD (Oct 6, 2013)

45yearsofGSDs said:


> I try to discourage owners from using them. Saw 2 dogs playing once: one grabbed the other's collar and got caught - other dog was strangled because of it.


Wow that is scary. What type of collar would you recommend for my dog? She is 9 months old, she knows how to walk on leash, and she barely pulls on the leash.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Check chains are very popular over here.....prongs are banned.
As many have said it is the way the tool is used.....you can abuse any tool.

All our police dogs are trained with check chains over here.....so its not like you can't train a GSD without a prong.....having said that I would have no issue trying a prong if it were allowed but my dog walks beautifully on a check chain so i wouldn't need it anyway.

I have never seen an injury from a check chain.....in all my years in vet clinics I didn't see one injury caused by one.......and being the main collar used over here I find it odd as so many say they cause severe damage to necks etc.
They are only a CHOKE chain when fitted incorrectly and used incorrectly which is why most call them check chains over here......and yes if you are stupid enough to leave one on a dog at other times outside of training then obviously they can be very dangerous.


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## Charlie W (Feb 12, 2013)

> _I put a prong on one of my legs and a choke on the other and gave them both a pull and the choke hurt a lot more. _


This made me chuckle, did you pull them both at the same time and fall over...sorry, just appealed to my sense of humour!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Put all the emotions away and look at the studies and the science.
Science and common sense say prong.


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## FjD (Oct 6, 2013)

I am going to test the prong collar, and see how it goes.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

45yearsofGSDs said:


> I try to discourage owners from using them. Saw 2 dogs playing once: one grabbed the other's collar and got caught - other dog was strangled because of it.


That has nothing to do with the collar and everything to do with irresponsible owners. All collars should come off when dogs are playing for just this reason, even flat buckle ones.


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## 45yearsofGSDs (Sep 19, 2013)

FjD:

I like to train by association. There's a couple devices I have that have worked very well. One is a sound emitter and the other one is what I call the e-stim collar. The one that emits the noise has 2 frequencies: low and is audble to us and ultra-sonic that we can not hear. From what I've learned and been told, a dog's hearing is much more sensitive to frequency much more than volume. Any time you have a device that *REALLY* gets the dog's attention is usually quite effective. The sound device is what I use first because the frequency is so out of the norm that they almost can't help but pay attention to it but I always use the low frequency button first and 99% of the time, that works just fine. 

The "e-stim collar" of course does give an electrical pulse of varying voltages, from about 1 or 2 volts to about 12 I think, which I never have used. But it also has a tone emitting button which is what I do. Usually, the first time you *HAVE* us the e-stim is enough for them to associate the next potential step. Now, when use either, I only have to use the least of the 2 evils but they very, very seldom have to be used. It's like when they associate the jingling of your keys, in a very time they know it's "ride time", which most dogs love.

The last thing, and what I really prefer to do, is to actually talk to them as if they were your kids. In time, simple, and sometimes multi-word commands become routine and they get to understand what you say and mean and of course, your tone of voice. Never ask your dog, but always command them. That's the only way they learn that *YOU* are the alpha...not them.

Hope this helped. Feel free to drop me a PM if I can help.


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## 45yearsofGSDs (Sep 19, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> That has nothing to do with the collar and everything to do with irresponsible owners. All collars should come off when dogs are playing for just this reason, even flat buckle ones.


I agree to a point. If you have to restrain your dog in an urgent manner, hair and tail usually doesn't work. Really, the only thing I can say is what has worked for me. 

Forty five years is a long time! And while I am not a professional trainer and all my posts are my *OPINIONS* and experience, they more often than not have always responded very well. My shepherds are very well behaved, very social and extremely well liked not to mention very protective and awesome with kids and that makes me feel like my inputs have made a profound impact on two GSDs lives that were horribly abused and should never have had the owners they did.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

45yearsofGSDs said:


> Forty five years is a long time! And while I am not a professional trainer and all my posts are my *OPINIONS* and experience, they more often than not have always responded very well. My shepherds are very well behaved, very social and extremely well liked not to mention very protective and awesome with kids and that makes me feel like my inputs have made a profound impact on two GSDs lives that were horribly abused and should never have had the owners they did.




I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything I said, other than than what I posted was from MY experience (and the experiences of many others, who have had dogs strangled during play from regular nylon collars). Saying all collars can be dangerous during play has nothing to do with your impact on your great dogs... and it is not saying that your dogs aren't great. Huh?

Anyways, the whole thing is neither here nor there, as it has no bearing on the effectiveness or preference of a choke chain. I was simply pointing out as a warning (from my OWN experience), not to get complacent with ANY type of collar during play.


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## FjD (Oct 6, 2013)

What do you guys think about martingale collars? 


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## 45yearsofGSDs (Sep 19, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything I said, other than than what I posted was from MY experience (and the experiences of many others, who have had dogs strangled during play from regular nylon collars). Saying all collars can be dangerous during play has nothing to do with your impact on your great dogs... and it is not saying that your dogs aren't great. Huh?
> 
> Anyways, the whole thing is neither here nor there, as it has no bearing on the effectiveness or preference of a choke chain. I was simply pointing out as a warning (from my OWN experience), not to get complacent with ANY type of collar during play.


I think you're 100% correct! Whatever works best for the particular owner & dog. CASE CLOSED!!! :>)


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

OP, none of the collars you've been mentioning should be used constantly. They are training collars. They go on when you want to train your dog. If you still need to train your dog how to walk...then you do that training on a walk. The dog should not interact with other dogs when those types of collars are on. Any collar that can close up is not safe when there are two dogs interacting.

You need to use the collar that works for your dog. I tried using a martingale...my dog couldn't care less about those corrections. I had to make such strong corrections that they were always late and ineffective. We moved on to a prong because it was recommended by a trainer and I will still train with a prong. I go to a choke chain when we're trialing since prongs aren't allowed in show rings.

From what I've seen...properly fit prongs have an easier time staying in position to allow for effective corrections. Choke chains have a tendency to slide down, below the proper position, and then the corrections don't work. But if you know how to use the choke chain, it works just fine.


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## FjD (Oct 6, 2013)

martemchik said:


> OP, none of the collars you've been mentioning should be used constantly. They are training collars. They go on when you want to train your dog. If you still need to train your dog how to walk...then you do that training on a walk. The dog should not interact with other dogs when those types of collars are on. Any collar that can close up is not safe when there are two dogs interacting.
> 
> You need to use the collar that works for your dog. I tried using a martingale...my dog couldn't care less about those corrections. I had to make such strong corrections that they were always late and ineffective. We moved on to a prong because it was recommended by a trainer and I will still train with a prong. I go to a choke chain when we're trialing since prongs aren't allowed in show rings.
> 
> From what I've seen...properly fit prongs have an easier time staying in position to allow for effective corrections. Choke chains have a tendency to slide down, below the proper position, and then the corrections don't work. But if you know how to use the choke chain, it works just fine.


I agree with you, of course I never let my dog interact with other dogs while she is wearing her choke collar.


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## katro (Feb 26, 2013)

I use a prong for training purposes. He really only needs it when he sees a rabbit or squirrel when we're out and the quick pop with the prong breaks his intense focus. I use a voice correction at the same time as the physical correction and he's been reacting to the voice more and more without the physical correction so I've been able to reduce the use of the prong. It's getting to the point that even though I still put it on him, I don't actually have to pop it in order to break his focus. For his regular collar, I use a nylon/chain combo martingale because his buckle collar kept coming undone and falling off (not good when a leash is connected to it) and the cheapo clip one I had was, well, cheap, and plastic clip cracked.


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

sparra said:


> Check chains are very popular over here.....prongs are banned.
> As many have said it is the way the tool is used.....you can abuse any tool.


 
Not true. Prong collars are banned in Victoria, but there is a loophole so they can be used.

The prong collar is on a list of prohibited imports but can be imported under license, that's why some people presume they're banned. The actual wording of the import restriction is very poor, and on a technicallity it doesn't actually apply to a prong collar at all, however Customs follow the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law which is why it's difficult to get one past them in the post.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

I use prong. I tried using a choke collar once, and it did not affect him one bit. He eventually got to a point of wheezing. In my opinion, the prong is much easier to use, safer, and is more effective. Our walks are very enjoyable. 

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## Harbud (Aug 27, 2013)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Put all the emotions away and look at the studies and the science.
> Science and common sense say prong.


100% Agree. Id rather see a prong being used then a choke chain.
Choke chains are called what they are for a reason, a prong collar is to be fitted so it DOESNT choke.

I personally use a martingale collar on my dogs but I don't use it for giving corrections. Like the prong collar they aren't supposed to be fitted that way. My guys use a martingale to save their fur

Like other people have already said using a collar or any equipment correctly is really the most important thing.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I do not like choke chains and will not use them.

I like prong collars and I use them.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> Not true. Prong collars are banned in Victoria, but there is a loophole so they can be used.
> 
> The prong collar is on a list of prohibited imports but can be imported under license, that's why some people presume they're banned. The actual wording of the import restriction is very poor, and on a technicallity it doesn't actually apply to a prong collar at all, however Customs follow the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law which is why it's difficult to get one past them in the post.


Well I live in Victoria so "over here" i was referring to where I live. Most ordinary dog owners aren't going to go to the trouble of finding "loopholes" which is probably why no body uses them.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

I put both a prong and a choke on my thigh and gave a correction. The choke chain hurt bad. I got a bruise where all the pressure hit. Prong didn't. I go with prong over choke chain 99% of the time. 


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I have used both over the years with no injuries or issues. If used properly, both are good training tools.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

Capone22 said:


> I put both a prong and a choke on my thigh and gave a correction. The choke chain hurt bad. I got a bruise where all the pressure hit. Prong didn't. I go with prong over choke chain 99% of the time.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You aren't suppose to give a correction that hard.


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

sparra said:


> Well I live in Victoria so "over here" i was referring to where I live. Most ordinary dog owners aren't going to go to the trouble of finding "loopholes" which is probably why no body uses them.


 
The loophole is having the responsibility to keep a dog under control without a negative impact on it's well being.

Voila, prong collar.

The reason most ordinary dog owners aren't using them is they've been misinformed and it's easier to just go "well, they're illegal" than question the misinformation. How many people have been prosecuted for using a prong collar? Make no mistake, they are in use in Victoria.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> The loophole is having the responsibility to keep a dog under control without a negative impact on it's well being.
> 
> Voila, prong collar.
> 
> The reason most ordinary dog owners aren't using them is they've been misinformed and it's easier to just go "well, they're illegal" than question the misinformation. How many people have been prosecuted for using a prong collar? Make no mistake, they are in use in Victoria.


I really couldn't give a toss......hardly anyone uses them here......that was my point.
I have nothing against them.....never used one.....like I said....probably would if I needed one but the fact remains that they are banned in some countries and will be here soon most likely (i did think they were in my state.....my mistake) and somehow people survive without them....you don't miss what you can't have


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Dunno......the DPI website says they are prohibited in Victoria......is that different from banned???

Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Regulations 2008 Regulatory Impact Statement - Department of Environment and Primary Industries


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Prong/Pinch collars, eh, I don't use them. I have a couple of them, somewhere. Probably in some box with the flexi-leads people insist on buying me for Christmas. 

Choke Chains, yeah I have them. I don't generally wear collars on my dogs. So, I have martingales and chokes laying around, and when I go to take a trained dog somewhere, I will put a flat collar on them which has their tags, and I will generally use a martingale or choke chain with the leash. I don't use chokes for puppies, or dogs that are in training. 

I use leather, nylon, and chain martingales as my connection of choice with the dog. Sometimes I connect to a flat collar, but I prefer the martingales. 

It used to be a training technique to hold a dog up by its choke chain until it passed out. Unfortunately, this was not as uncommon as people think. If you do this with a martingale or a prong collar I actually think more damage can take place because it will not render the dog unconscious nearly as quickly. Any tool can be abused and can cause damage. They say that the prong collar doesn't cause the damage a choke does. But who made the study? Could it be people who want to promote prong collars?

Here's the thing, _most _dogs will respond to a pinch collar without the need to hang the dog up, or have a major fight. Chokes are cheap and everywhere, but unless you thread them properly, and then use them properly, you will have a fight to get the dog to walk properly with it.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my dog was on a flat collar untill he was 9 months old. then i
switched to a choker. when i switched to the choker my dog was
trained to heel, loose leash walk and to walk without a leash. his
collar is never on when he's home.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

putting a prong and a choker on your dog's leg is abusive.



newtexas said:


> >>>>> I put a prong on one of my legs and a choke on the other and gave them both a pull and the choke hurt a lot more. <<<<<
> 
> 
> My dog also reacts better to a prong.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i fail to see the humor in putting a prong or a choker on a dog's
leg to see which one hurts more. duh.



newtexas said:


> I put a prong on one of my legs and a choke on the other and gave them both a pull and the choke hurt a lot more. My dog also reacts better to a prong.





Charlie W said:


> >>>>> This made me chuckle, did you pull them both at the same time and fall over...sorry, just appealed to my sense of humour!<<<<<


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

how old was your dog when he was in training classes?
what did you use a prong or a choker? in the training
classes i've attended a prong or a choker wasn't allowed
on a pup.



trcy said:


> >>>>> I use one in one of the training classes.<<<<<
> 
> 
> It's not liek the one pictured. It has more of a whale tail on the end. If the dog is not pulling it will not tighten. I never give corrections so strong that it could hurt the puppy.
> ...


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## katro (Feb 26, 2013)

doggiedad - I think you're misreading the post. newtexas said he/she put the prong and choke on his/her OWN legs, not the dog's legs (and if it turns out that I'm the one who misread, and the collars DID go on the dog's legs, then newtexas is insane).



newtexas said:


> I put a prong >>>on one of *my* legs<<< and a choke on the other and gave them both a pull and the choke hurt a lot more. My dog also reacts better to a prong.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

For training I use both together. The choke is about 2 inches bigger then his neck and I connect it to the prong. It's my back up if he gets out of the prong. Most if the time he has a regular flat collar on. I have never used the choke collar on its own.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I prefer a prong collar, but have used a choker.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I put a choker on Babs today. Usually, I let the little girls walk her with a flat collar. I showed them the choke chain, called it a choke chain, and they were horrified, and asked me why. 

I then put the choke chain on the little girl's wrist and gave it a tug -- she is not as whimpy as the guy who put it on his leg. But whatever. I explained how to thread it and why, and turned it over and explained how it works if it is on the wrong way. And then I put it on Babs and had her walk Babs to the park. 

She doesn't need the choker, but I had it handy, and I thought it was a golden opportunity to explain it to the girls. 

I don't want to think about what one or both of those girls would do to me if I showed them a prong collar and thent tried to put it on Babsy. They are working toward their belts in some form of karate, and they pack quite a bit of punch for critters that weigh about half what my GSDs do. 

And a couple of years ago when I showed them Robin Hood, the first scene where Much the Miller's son kills the deer, well that did it for them. They thought the good guys were the bad guys throughout the movie, and only the Maid Marion falling in love with Robin Hood salvaged a little of it. "How rude." No prong collars for the little girls. It would be way rude.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> how old was your dog when he was in training classes?
> what did you use a prong or a choker? in the training
> classes i've attended a prong or a choker wasn't allowed
> on a pup.


He was 4 months old, but I give very light corrections. My puppy obedience trainer will not allow prong collars in class. If someone shows up with one they either change it or get sent away. She says using a prong is a lazy way to train a dog. The laziest way is an ecollar. 

The dog club trainer doesn't like choke collars. He uses fur savers on the dead ring and then clipped onto another ring so the collar doesn't slip over the head. 

Kaleb's martingale fits him now. We have been using that one for basic obedience and the fur saver for club training. 


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

trcy said:


> He was 4 months old, but I give very light corrections.* My puppy obedience trainer will not allow prong collars in class. If someone shows up with one they either change it or get sent away. She says using a prong is a lazy way to train a dog. The laziest way is an ecollar. *
> 
> The dog club trainer doesn't like choke collars. He uses fur savers on the dead ring and then clipped onto another ring so the collar doesn't slip over the head.
> 
> Kaleb's martingale fits him now. We have been using that one for basic obedience and the fur saver for club training.


Of course putting a prong or ecollar on a* puppy* is not recommended, but they do have their uses and are a good tool when used properly. When trainers are adverse to using tools, I would question the trainer, they should have an open mind and have good reason why they make such statements. Using prongs and ecollars is not a 'lazy way to train' a dog...but again they aren't a necessary tool for training with a puppy.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> Of course putting a prong or ecollar on a* puppy* is not recommended,


 I should probably mention, this is my dogs puppy training class, but dogs of all ages are there.


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## c0d13e (Sep 8, 2013)

Can i use a choke collar for a 4 month old gsd? or is that too young?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

c0d13e said:


> Can i use a choke collar for a 4 month old gsd? or is that too young?


I don't use choke collars at all anymore (used one with Sneaker back in 1986 when they were still pretty common), so for me it's not about age of the dog, it's just a piece of equipment that I don't recommend. 

Why don't you train your puppy on a flat collar, or a martingale instead? Or even a front hook harness like the Sense-ation or Easy Walk?


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## brightspot (Apr 18, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> That has nothing to do with the collar and everything to do with irresponsible owners. All collars should come off when dogs are playing for just this reason, even flat buckle ones.


^ This.


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## GSDluver4lyfe (Nov 15, 2006)

I prefer a choke chain to a prong. My dog will pull nonstop (our training has been pretty much absent for the past couple of years) on a prong and doesnt even notice a correction. But with a choke chain he rarely pulls and one correction goes a long way. I wouldnt use the choke collar if he pulled nonstop but he leaves slack so hes not choking and for him its more effective. The prong we just have not had luck. We've had 2 incidents where the prong got caught he tore away and it pierced his neck and had to go to the vet to get it removed and stitched up. Any type of negligence with specialized collars can result in catastrophe. Simply walking them and not noticing it getting caught on a fence or their leash getting tangled or wrapped around something while they are sniffing around can result in injury and vet bills.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

These are 2 totally different tools for totally different applications, cannot compare them side by side. It is like apples to oranges. The key item to focus on is the type of dog and the training exercise at hand. Both can be used correctly and both can be abused.


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## GSxOwner (Jul 9, 2013)

I don't use choke,prong, or martingale. I realised one day when I was training my puppy to automatically sit when I stop that when she forgot or got distracted all I had to do was gently jingle her collar with her tags and she would get the hint. I would never have used a prong but I thought a martingale would be useful but now no way! 

I am SO happy I just got her a harness despite everyone telling me she would turn into a husky if I used it. My 9 month old is so easy to walk! Just practice and patience. Anytime she pulled I would make her sit and now when she see's something she wants to pull after she sits.


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

None of the corrective collars worked for Rocco (I never used an ecollar) because he pulled constantly and was just hurting himself. I switched to an easywalk harness so that I could control him more easily and trained, trained, trained... He eventuality got it and now walks next to me without pulling. I still have to train while walking though because he will pull when excited. 


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## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

I've had several GSD pups over the years and have used a variety of training collars. A trainer introduced me to the prong collar when taking my first through obedience. She was about 6 months old and pulled terribly. I won't use a choke chain at all-if we need that kind of training correction I use the prong fitted and used appropriately and I never leave training collars on when not actively training!


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## GSxOwner (Jul 9, 2013)

Does anyone else train on a harness out of curiousity?

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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

GSxOwner said:


> Does anyone else train on a harness out of curiousity?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Absolutely, especially puppies. All drive work is done on a harness, meaning anything where I want the dog to pull. I do a lot of walks in harness on a long line. Lots of detection training in harness. My dogs wear a harness most of the time when out and about, plus an id collar and appropriate training collar if necessary.

David Winners


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

GSxOwner said:


> Does anyone else train on a harness out of curiousity?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I did all of my training with our Chow mix with a harness. Even when we went through an obedience class where the instructor wanted to insist on prong collars, I refused to consider them, and Jessie learned all of the commands and passed with flying colors. 

I tend to go with more than one - a harness built for safety to tether them in the car, a flat collar to keep their ID tags on, and most often a martingale to work on training, if only to keep them from slipping out of it when they are first learning. I like to change things up as well, so my pups learn to pay attention whatever gear they have on, or even if they have none.


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## Myah's Mom (Mar 25, 2013)

packen said:


> these are 2 totally different tools for totally different applications, cannot compare them side by side. It is like apples to oranges. The key item to focus on is the type of dog and the training exercise at hand. Both can be used correctly and both can be abused.


this.


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## GSxOwner (Jul 9, 2013)

I had the same reaction from trainer but I saw no reason why we should not try a harness!

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