# diseases in working lines vs show lines & what tests to ask for



## MikeC35 (Jul 31, 2014)

I am deciding on a pup soon and I was wondering if there is a difference in the diseases that different types of dogs are prone to. Show line dogs are not typically cross bred with working lines, does that make one type healthier than the other ?

also what tests should I be asking the breeder for ?


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## Guy9999 (Aug 25, 2014)

Proof. X Rays. 

Eyes cerfed.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

either line, ask if he hips have been checked and ofa certified. in many ways its a crap shoot. you can reduce your risk by dealing with a reputable breeder. plenty on the board here to ask and they can also give you refer you to other breeders. seems many know each other.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Ask about hips and elbows, both can and should be x-rayed and evaluated before breeding. DM can also be tested for. I know the dam of my pup also had had cardiac, thyroid and other tests done. 

Neither line is more or less prone to these issues. They are GSD issues, not 'line' issues.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Since many things that affect GSDs are polygenic, or their inheritance is not completely understood, if health is a big priority you may need to do a bit of research into the lines (or find a breeder you trust). At minimum, the breeding dogs should have hip and elbow certificates (OFA/OVC, PennHIP, or a-stamp). DM is also a popular thing but it's not entirely clear whether this is a simple recessive or whether DM in GSDs is the same as DM in other breeds. The dog I bred also had a CERF exam, spine x-ray, and a full thyroid panel. The CERF is really not important to me as it has to be renewed yearly and usually things that are bad happen when they happen. Like, if you don't find pannus during a CERF exam of a young dog, that doesn't mean he can't develop it later in life. The structural stuff like HD or ED is typically easier to rule in/out earlier on and often before the dog is showing symptoms.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

I have a question about looking at results on offa.org. There are so many dogs in there, it is hard to tell how closely you should look at other relatives vs. the parents and grandparents, previous litters of the same combo, etc. Obviously you don't want to see dysplastic dogs being bred, or dogs with any genetic problems being bred. But if a dog 2-3 generations back produced joint disease when bred to a different line, how much of a red flag is that? Can some crosses just be really bad even if the parents are OFA'd? Where do you draw the line?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

lies you are correct. just proves to me that when looking for a puppy you just do the best you can to increase the odds when choosing a breeder with a good reputation and breeds the type of gsd you are looking for. in many ways, i think people over think this process. other than puppy mills and some others, i just rely on the breeder. just using the breeders on this board for example, not one of them is going to intentionally breed an unsound, unhealthy dog. realistically, they can do the research and planning, but on occasion, a poor quality pup and gsd will emerge while the rest of the litter is exactly as planned.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't know that people overthink it, but people need to put in effort that matches their expectations. I am sad when I see people bashing a breeder because they are not happy with how their dog turned out, but they never did any research into these issues that are apparently so important. I'm not defending breeders that consistently produce health issues either, but it's kind of a lose-lose situation when I see someone insisting that health is their top priority and then they go buy a puppy with a pedigree that is very incomplete as far as hip certifications and never asked the breeder about hip production in their lines. A puppy is not simply the sum of his sire and dam, but of the pedigrees behind them *and* how those pedigress might uniquely interact. A lot of information about health certainly should come from a breeder that can be trusted, because longevity of the dogs in their lines is more valuable (to me anyway) indicator of health than any single paper "certificate", but buyers need to ask those questions and not shrug it off if a breeder is sending up red flags by dodging questions about health or being overly defensive.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think there are other things to look at in a dogs lines. Allergies, food sensitivity or digestive issues(yes these dogs get bred) 
The above is daily chronic management, and I would look a bit deeper than the normal HD/DM tests.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Given all the hemangio, osteo, and other cancer posts...is it fair to ask a breeder (and research) about longevity in the lines? 

I'm guessing sometimes it may be hard to know the cause of death on a dog a couple of generations back that you didn't own, but sometimes, something will be known if one _wants _to know.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Magwart said:


> Given all the hemangio, osteo, and other cancer posts...is it fair to ask a breeder (and research) about longevity in the lines?
> 
> I'm guessing sometimes it may be hard to know the cause of death on a dog a couple of generations back that you didn't own, but sometimes, something will be known if one _wants _to know.


I was drawn to the breeder I chose because of the transparency in their program...all litters are on the website, and the longevity proof is there. 
Though the stud dogs health/demise isn't on there, that would be up to the individual to research out that far.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yes, if it's important to you it's always fair to ask. Good breeders are honest and forthcoming. They will say what they've had in their lines or not, their dogs' strengths and weaknesses. Also if health is top priority, look for breeders that have been breeding their own lines/program for many generations and not just buying dogs and pairing them up.


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