# Melt down at groomers



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I have been taking max to the groomers since he was 4 months old about once every 6 weeks. Max is 13 months now. I do his hail trimming and other grooming at home and is a gentleman. I would say he did not enjoy going to the groomers but never put up a fuss. I was hoping the more he went the more comfortable he would get. I thought leaving him at the groomers might be a good way to get used him being away from home if we ever had to board him if an emergency arised-my dad usually watches him. I also thought this would help with visits to the vet which he is very good at. He had an ear infection -2 months ago and they were able to clean his ear without any muzzle. The two groomers loved max and always said he was so well behaved and such a good german shepherd they never had any issues with him. The groomers are two sisters and on occasion their teenage son works there. Yesterday my husband dropped max at the groomers. He said max was mildly hesitant on going but the groomers son was able to bring him in and put him in the cage. When the groomer was ready for max she told her son to get max ,who has gotten him out of the crate before, max snarled and lunged at him. The kid shut the crate door and the the two groomers had to get max out the crate with a hook pole because he was growling at them through the crate. Once he was out of the crate he was fine. They washed and groomed him and he did not give them any issues. Once he was put back in the crate he would give the groomers son the stink eye whenever he walked by his crate. When it was time for me to pick him up the groomer told me all this and led him out of the crate with no issue. He appeared unshaken and excited to see me. I called my trainer and left a message but i believe she is away this week.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

I know this sounds stupid but i wonder if Max was feeling some sort of pain . I would get a vet check just to make sure.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

I honestly don't trust anyone else with my dogs, for this exact reason. There is no way for you to know if that teenager has hit or hurt Max in the past. This sudden reaction sounds like Max remembers that something happened between him and the boy, and wanted to ensure that it doesn't happen again this time around. I'm sure you trust them and know them personally, but when you are not there, there is no way to know exactly what is going on. I do all of the grooming for my pack myself. Nails, ears, teeth, baths.

Hopefully I am wrong, but I have heard about things happening behind closed doors too many times to rule that out. Maybe he was just grumpy and having an "off" day.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Wanted to add: 

My "rude awakening" happened when I took Nara to a clinic to get spayed. They, of course, knocked her out for the procedure, and came out to ask me if there was anything else I wanted them to take care of while she was out. They ran down a list of options, most services which were free, and I said that they could trim her nails. This was a vet clinic, and also a popular place to bring your pets for spay/neuter. You would think these people were experts at this kind of stuff, right? WRONG!

Nara woke up from her surgery and came wobbling out to see me when she was allowed. I noticed a literal PATH OF BLOOD from one of her paws. I was trying to comfort her for going through such an invasive procedure, and when I inspected her paw, I noticed her nail was cut deep into the quick, like REALLY DEEP. Blood was pouring everywhere. No one thought this was abnormal, so I quickly got Nara loaded up and told myself NEVER AGAIN! Never again would I let someone else do something that I know I can do, and I know I can do it better.

I also realized that NO ONE loves my dog more than I DO! Of course they aren't going to take care of her the way I would take care of her when it comes to nail trimming. I've never let anyone touch my dogs again, unless it is for something I can't do myself. All I can do is hope to minimize the time that they have to spend with strangers who honestly don't care about them anywhere near what I feel for them.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I do take mine to be groomed, but only to one of two different places where I feel I know the people well enough to trust them. I took Max once to one of the big box stores when I couldn't get in at his usual place, he went in fine and came out limping. I called and asked about it, no one knew anything. I don't really think anybody did anything deliberately but sometimes young men (it was a guy who worked with him.) don't know their own strength. I never took him back there again.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

My trainer did call me back and going to see her next week during class. She wants to have me bring max in the groomers for a quick visit just to say hello so they can give him a treat just making some quick positive visits without the teenage boy there to end that chapter on a good note. Thanks everyone for the advise and thoughts all these thoughts have run through my head. Pain is the first thought that went through my mind. He doesnt seem to be in any physical pain unless he had some temporary growing pain. Max is due soon for his check up i will ask the vet. i did clip max nails myself the night before as i had a bad experience with the vet in the past and diligent in making sure max is good for his nail trims do not want anyone to mess him up. I cleaned his ears to. I try to make it less the groomers visit less stressful as possible but didnt work out so well in the end. I knew the groomers for a long time through the other dog we had but you do never know what goes on or if anything did go on for that matter. I dont feel max belonged in the hands of a teenage boy regardless.I feel terrible for putting max in that position where he was that stressed and thankfully no one got hurt. I will not be leaving max in anyone else's hands ever again.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

There could have been some variables that caused Max to react. There may have been another dog (or dogs) there that may have raised his level of excitability. Could be something as simple as a male dog giving the stink eye and this caused Max to become guarded within his kennel. 

I suspect as this is near the holidays, the groomer may have had a full house. Loads of dogs coming and going. Perhaps your groomer had some anxiety as she was trying to complete her appointments. 

Sometimes our dogs can just be off their game. Especially during the holidays.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

My trainer said much of the same. A bad day. It makes sense a few things could of caused this storm.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

As a groomer, I can vouch for Lilie's take on it. Some days the mix of dogs in the shop is awful, and it puts everyone on edge.


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## Lobo dog (Sep 19, 2014)

I agree with Lillie. There is a whole mess of things that may have caused Max's reaction other than abuse. There may have been an intact dog present and/or just a bad chemistry between him and another dog. He may have reacted to the teenagers hormones; my trainer has a GSD that doesn't like teenage males because of their wacky testosterone levels. 

Lobo had never growled in obedience class until about 2 weeks ago when one of the other students brought their teenage son. The instructor asked the (aprox) 16 year old to help with the stand for exams, Lobo was fine when or instructor touched him but when the boy reached towards him, he growled and would let him any closer. Even our instructor couldn't figure out why Lobo was so defensive towards the teenager...could be because Lobo isn't on the best terms with their dominant retriever and the boy smelled like him or that Lobo was having an off night, or he is going through a phase or he just didn't like this particular teenager.

I wouldn't immediately jump to the conclusion of abuse, but neither would I take him back to be groomed. I don't trust Lobo with anybody but me and two of my other family members. When Lobo was about 12-13 months we took him to be groomed by a place who had handled him many times but they seemed to have different groomers every appointment. He was fine with his ears and nails being done when he went to his appointment and they said he did great but like a typical young dog had been a little testy. Then when I tried to do his ears and nails two weeks later he was defensive of those areas which makes me wonder what that groomer might have done to possibly subdue his puppy-ness. Needless to say we never took him back, because they easily could have handled him wrong and caused his sudden change in behavior (Could have also been his age but whatever the case it took a while to recondition him to being handled). Now we do 100% of his grooming, brushing, bathing, ear cleaning and nails.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes thanks again everyone for help trying to make sense of this. I do agree there had to be a multitude of things going on that day. The tension just ricocheted.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I don't know ...in eight years Rocky has never needed to have his nails trimmed?? A dog needs to go to the vet, but it's a GSD, not a French Poodle. A "groomer" just seems like an unnecessary burden to put on the dog??

Next time he needs to go to the vet, there maybe "blow back" because of his trip to the groomer?? 

Not saying there is a right or wrong here just how I see it.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Wow 8 years and you have no broken nails????I trim Max's nails once every two weeks and Dremel them to. Yes well no more groomers anymore. Max I'm sure will fair well at the vets but thanks for your concern chip . I will be sure to let you know how his next vet visit goes:grinning:


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Chip18 said:


> ...in eight years Rocky has never needed to have his nails trimmed??


I've never heard of a dog NOT needing their nails trimmed. Our dogs need their nails trimmed once a week or every two weeks at least. If they walk on concrete or our hardwood and linoleum floors and I can hear any clicking sounds, that means their nails are too long and it actually hurts them to walk because of the shock/impact/stress every time their paw/nails hit the ground. It sends little jolts up their toes into the bones. I can see and feel the difference when I take the dogs bikejoring and I hear their nails as they run. I also notice that they run differently, and slower, when they need their nails trimmed. Sure, running on pavement helps grind their nails down, but only down far enough to make the nail flush with the surface of the ground, and not far enough back that it stops the constant impact, as I can still hear the nails making that clicking sound.

I've wondered about wolves in the wild and how they keep their nails trimmed, but then I realized they rarely ever walk on hard man-made surfaces like domesticated dogs do (i.e. our homes, pet stores, Home Depot and Lowes, sidewalks, streets, etc.). You don't see many wolves in these areas, so maybe that's why they don't need their nails trimmed. But I do want to research and find out if wolves do anything to groom their nails naturally, or if they just grow out so far and then stop growing at some point. Curious!

And whenever we find stray or loose dogs that need rescuing and returning to their owner, one of the first things I do is check to see how well taken care of the dog is. The last thing I want to do is return a dog to an abuseful or neglected situation. I smell the dog to see if it stinks, check the coat for fleas and overall cleanliness, and I check the teeth and nails. If the nails are long, I've always thought that the person isn't grooming their dog properly, especially knowing what I know now about dogs and grooming and hard surfaces. Not judging you, Chip, in any way, as there are many loved and well-taken care of dogs with long nails. But if I see a number of red flags (broken teeth, dirty fur, scars, etc.) sometimes I will hesitate returning the dog to its owner and instead might take it to a shelter for further examination of health and conditions. A lot of people abuse or neglect their dogs and think it's normal, because it's "only a dog." I would feel terrible returning a dog to a situation like that.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I took a closer look at Rocky's nails and yep pretty short, it looks like I could take a tiny part off the very tips?? Blk dog and Blk nails so yeah ...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> Wow 8 years and you have no broken nails????I trim Max's nails once every two weeks and Dremel them to. Yes well no more groomers anymore. Max I'm sure will fair well at the vets but thanks for your concern chip . I will be sure to let you know how his next vet visit goes:grinning:


 Yep we hear lots of horror tales of GSD's and vets!

Ironically "Rocky" and his people "issues" was never a problem at the vet's??


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Chip18 said:


> I took a closer look at Rocky's nails and yep pretty short, it looks like I could take a tiny part off the very tips?? Blk dog and Blk nails so yeah ...


 I guess if you don't hear them click whenever he walks on hard surfaces then you're good to go. Lucky you! Must be nice. Weird that they don't grow. I wonder why though. He really is an oversized mutant maybe?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Yep we hear lots of horror tales of GSD's and vets!
> 
> Ironically "Rocky" and his people "issues" was never a problem at the vet's??




Worked at a vet all the german shepherds were alway the worst patients Once max was out of the cage of the groomers he was behaved and was washed and groomed at his worst and allowed them to do so with no complaints. The vet will need to know of the grooming incident. Max was good as can be when at the vets when they took him in the back to clean his infected ear and one time a cut under his eye. We periodically go in to get him weighed and get a cookie. He has been behind the desk at the receptionist to say hi. I only can do my part. I routinely clean maxs teeth/ears and clip max's nails as so it is not as stressing or a chore for either of us. The goal is once a week but many times its every two weeks. He has all black nails they grow just like clear nails. Becareful when your dog runs he doesnt break or crack a nail or get it hooked on a rug or something it can pull the nail completely off. They can get nasty infections which are extremely painful.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

counter said:


> I guess if you don't hear them click whenever he walks on hard surfaces then you're good to go. Lucky you! Must be nice. Weird that they don't grow. I wonder why though. He really is an oversized mutant maybe?


 LOL yes giant mutant freak dog! I only became aware of how big he was when I saw my SIL's two GSD's??

One Blk and one White breed to spec and they looked "tiny???" So I knew one of us was wrong??? 

Rocky was just taller, wider, and longer, he looks like a BLK Wolf my SIL dogs looked like Coyotes?? 

His were also running around in the back yard freely interacting with everyone at the wedding party without issue???

Rocky never gave me the sense that doing "that" was not a good idea for him! But the size difference for me was quite a surprise for me?? Rocky was just a big dog with a funny face (for me.)


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> Worked at a vet all the german shepherds were alway the worst patients Once max was out of the cage of the groomers he was behaved and was washed and groomed at his worst and allowed them to do so with no complaints. The vet will need to know of the grooming incident. Max was good as can be when at the vets when they took him in the back to clean his infected ear and one time a cut under his eye. We periodically go in to get him weighed and get a cookie. He has been behind the desk at the receptionist to say hi. I only can do my part. I routinely clean maxs teeth/ears and clip max's nails as so it is not as stressing or a chore for either of us. The goal is once a week but many times its every two weeks. He has all black nails they grow just like clear nails. Becareful when your dog runs he doesnt break or crack a nail or get it hooked on a rug or something it can pull the nail completely off. They can get nasty infections which are extremely painful.


Hmm, so apparently the "rumors" have some merit to them?? 

All my dogs have been good patients and "Rocky" despite his I don't care much for people thing at home and the High Rank drive issues, had no problem with the Vet or the staff.

Actually out in public with other dogs he is better than my American Band Dawg was and as good as my Boxer with people and other dogs. Not people crazy like my Boxer but not bothered by them either (that took some effort but not a big deal.)


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