# Digestive Enzymes & Probiotics



## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

Could the members recommend specific name brand of digestive enzymes and probiotics to use for a 7 y/o GS who has bad allergies? Can it be purchased at PetSmart? I am in a hurry to get something tomorrow or by the weekend at the latest which is why I did not do a search on this. Thank you.


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

The only one I've ever used was from naturesfarmacy.com the white tub with blue top. Did I notice any difference? No.


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

What sort of allergies. Could be his food? I also didn't think digestive enzymes aided in allergies


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## JaxGSD (Sep 9, 2013)

What exactly was his allergies caused from? I recently bought some at petsmart, the brand was 21st century probiotics it was cheap & quick for the time being. I went to another local pet store and bought this new stuff called Daisy's optimum health and this stuff is pricey but amazing. I see a difference already and it's only been a week. ( my boy was sick and wasn't eating as much) after giving him antibiotics I wanted to start this as soon as he was finished. His stools had stayed consistently runny with & after antibiotics. I started giving him this and right away his next stools were back to normal, he bulked up again and has a very nice coat that came through. PS. I was told to make sure to keep the bottle refrigerated after opening as you must know it contains live organisms and when they come with contact of heat, air or water they start to die and it warns you on the bottle but the petsmart one I bought doesn't mention to keep it refrigerated so i'm not sure which is best but I know I swear by this stuff. Goodluck with your dog  sincerely, Christine


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## JaxGSD (Sep 9, 2013)

Daisy optimum health ::::: http://www.petownerschoicebrands.com/mega-8-probiotic-flora-plus-digestive-enzymes.html 


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

DHau said:


> Could the members recommend specific name brand of digestive enzymes and probiotics to use for a 7 y/o GS who has bad allergies? Can it be purchased at PetSmart? I am in a hurry to get something tomorrow or by the weekend at the latest which is why I did not do a search on this. Thank you.


Is this for Tosca? 

I don't know about enzymes/probiotics that will help bad allergies. Recently a vet gave me this supplement and it seemed to help Nikki, it's made by Standard Process: https://www.standardprocess.com/Products/Standard-Process/Antronex

Michaela


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

My vet recommended FortiFlora, but as My5dogs posted, we too did not really notice a difference. What helped us is changing foods, to prepared raw and dehydrated raw dog foods.


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

Heidigsd said:


> Is this for Tosca?
> 
> I don't know about enzymes/probiotics that will help bad allergies. Recently a vet gave me this supplement and it seemed to help Nikki, it's made by Standard Process: https://www.standardprocess.com/Products/Standard-Process/Antronex
> 
> Michaela


Yes, this is for Tosca. My husband is convinced that digestive enzymes and probiotics will help with her allergies. I Googled this topic and the information I found seems to back up everything he has said. It can't hurt. lol. I do not want to do injections so I will try everything holistically first.

Michaela, interesting to see another Jagenstadt dog on the forum. Tosca was from the J litter.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

I feed my shepherd raw organic goat milk for enzymes. She likes it. Sometimes I mix in Carmspack's Sunday Sundae (natural digestive enzyme supplement) and it's worked really good. I use it for foster dogs that gets the runs and it seems to fix it pretty quick. A plus is all the dogs I tried to feed it to loves it. 

You can read about it here:
SUNDAY SUNDAE | CARMSPACK.com

Purchase in the States here:
Sunday Sundae Nutritional Supplement

A thread on this site here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-feedsentials-question-carmen-re-staph-4.html

I've tried the injections before and after seeing it only temporarily suppressed the allergy symptoms for a few days and requiring ongoing shots plus all the potential long term effects on the organs that I went the natural route. What did it was changing the food to raw.


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

My5dogs said:


> What sort of allergies. Could be his food? I also didn't think digestive enzymes aided in allergies


Tosca is allergic to many, many things: mold, certain weeds, grasses, grains and certain animal proteins.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

> Michaela, interesting to see another Jagenstadt dog on the forum. Tosca was from the J litter.


 Nikki was from the O litter...what are the odds that they both have allergies!

I hope that the enzymes/probiotics work for her but it didn't make any difference for my two (my first GSD "Heidi" had severe allergies). When Nikki start to show symptoms I didn't waste any time getting her seen by our dermatologist. Hyposensitization can take 12-18 months but it worked for both of mine. Allergies are a pain that's for sure


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

DHau said:


> Tosca is allergic to many, many things: mold, certain weeds, grasses, grains and certain animal proteins.


I'm far from an expert on the subject, but I can't see how digestive enzymes could possibly help with something like allergies to mold. What does one have to do with the other?

And I know everyone likes to go the natural supplement route, but what about something like claritin or some other kind of antihistamine? I'd think something like that would be better for stuff like mold, weeds, and grass. Have you tried or discussed that with your vet yet?

For the diet allergies, try a limited ingredient formula with a protein he's never had before and no grains. California Natural makes a Kangaroo and lentils formula - maybe try something like that if you haven't already.


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## skier16 (Feb 21, 2013)

my pup gets prozyme on her food. helped clear up intermittent loose stools. her food is coated in probiotics so i dont supplement that.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Lucy Dog said:


> I'm far from an expert on the subject, but I can't see how digestive enzymes could possibly help with something like allergies to mold. What does one have to do with the other?


Hi Lucy,
Pro-biotics and Digestive enzymes indeed do help sensitivities! 
I'm at work now, so I'll post some things for you tonite or tomorrow morning.
Moms


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

I am not good at explaining how the body works, so please Google digestive enzymes and probiotics with allergy in the subject line. This link helps explain everything very well. SUNDAY SUNDAE | CARMSPACK.com I cannot endorse it because I have not used the product, but the information is great and looks promising for my dog.

I have done everything I can to help my dog from switching dog food, allergy testing, and herbal supplements. Tosca is currently on spirulina and krill oil. These are helping with the itching and licking of the paws. I have been using Braggs ACV internally and externally. I have soaked my dog's paws in Epsom salts to help the itching. _ *** Removed by ADMIN *** _ She has been losing hair, has a itchy and wrinkled muzzle, swollen rear paws, loss of appetite, loose stools, has had secondary skin as well as ear infections.

At this point, this seems to be the only logical thing left to treat. You have to treat the inside which takes care of the immune system. I believe all the problems we are going through stem from the puppy shots. That is another story for another time.

The benedryl does not work for us. The vet says we can try a prescripted antihistamine which is stronger. I tried Atopica and had side affects. I do not want to go with allergy injections. There is no guarantee it will work and it's $200 just to start. 

Our family believes in holistic treatments. We rarely get anything worse than a head cold when we get sick. We attribute that to using aloe vera and echinicea. 

Tosca will have to live with the allergies, but I want to find a way to make her comfortable as well.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Dhau, can you go into the puppy shots? I also believe vaccinations cause allergies however I was hoping that once I stopped vaccinating they'd go away. 
Are you saying that's not true?

My dog god every single freaking vaccine my vet recommended (they're not my vet anymore). He's 9 months old, has allergies and I'm not giving him another shot. 

He's on raw and seems to get better in one place but then itches in another. 

So your dog is 7 years old. Are you saying you never gave him another vaccine after the puppy shots and his allergies didn't go away?


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

What food are you feeding? A lot of dogs have allergies to chicken. Try something simple. California naturals lamb/rice? Benadryl also helps. I used it on my lab. The vet can tell you dosage. It really helped my lab when she had an allergic reaction her entire face blew up gave her benAdryl and went away,,I'm sorry just read Benadryl doesn't work for her


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm sorry you're having such issues. Duke itches like a beast too and has a sensitive stomach (haven't tested allergies or GI issues yet, been too focused on neuro and bone issues). He's ok on his food now -Acana Pacifica-, but we do supplement his diet to help his stomach out (pumpkin, and yogurt, and he's also on Nupro Original & Joint and Immunity), and he gets special baths for his skin (we have a tea tree oil leave in conditioner for allergies, works great. It's called Vet's Best and it's mainly for hotspots, but also works wonders for itchy skin and allergies). Along with his mild HD, and possible DM/nerve issues (and some other things)..... it can be a bit rough on him. Our vet has been super helpful thankfully!

I don't have any suggestions that haven't already been mentioned, and even with 2 dogs with these issues (the other also has SIBO flare ups) I'm still learning. Just wanted to say I feel your pain with this, and to wish you two some luck...

Hope you get everything figured out for Tosca soon!

*Forgot to add... Zira was on Forta Flora often within her first year (Major SIBO issues) and it really worked for her. We got it right at Petsmart from the Banfield vets office there (no office visit or anything needed). It wasn't all that expensive and it was easy to use. Zira liked the taste and she responded really well to that.


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

lalachka said:


> Dhau, can you go into the puppy shots? I also believe vaccinations cause allergies however I was hoping that once I stopped vaccinating they'd go away.
> Are you saying that's not true?
> 
> My dog god every single freaking vaccine my vet recommended (they're not my vet anymore). He's 9 months old, has allergies and I'm not giving him another shot.
> ...


Let me share what I have experienced. I took in 3 puppies from a neglected household. I fostered them for about 1 week and one of them came down with parvo. I took the dogs for a walk near my home and one of them came down with parvo quickly after receiving puppy shots. It has been a while since this happened so I don't remember every detail. I do know that if a dog has a compromised immune system, you do not give shots. I have read you do not give multiple shots at one time. You are better off giving each one separately. It may cost more but it's healthier for the dog. 

Ever since this has happened I learned about a condition called vaccinosis (sp?) I also do not give my dog any vaccinations due to my dog's compromised immune system which I feel causes allergies. I am not very good at explaining all this stuff so please do research on this topic. It's very eye opening and controversial topic. How many shots have you had since you were a child? So why should a dog be vaccinated as often as the vets say to do so? The allergies my dog have are getting worse. I have never had hair loss on the rear paws, around the eyes or the muzzle until this year. 

Benedryl does not work. The vet said we could try something stronger but will need a prescription. I do not want to pump her up with more benedryl because it's not solving the problem, just masking it. The vet said I could give her 3 tablets of benedryl. While doing so, she did not do anything more than lie around the house and sleep. I took her off the benedryl completely.

Every dog is different and reacts different depending on the allergy.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Denise, I know how frustrating allergies are, I do know a veterinarian that had success with acupuncture. Maybe that would be worth checking into for Tosca?

Maybe it'll make you feel better if I list Nikki's very long list of health issues and by the way she is also allergic to fleas. Maybe that explains why she came off the plane scratching like crazy.

*Here it is:*

Very itchy from day one and also had brown gunk in her ears which turned out to be 3 different yeast organisms.

Giardia
Mild case of parvo @ 9 weeks
Juvenile demodicosis
Atopy
Food intolerance
EPI
IBD
SIBO
B12 Deficiency
Anal gland issues

Just like "Dukes" mom we are very lucky to have some excellent veterinarians that are helping me take care of Nikki. Especially our dermatologist and Nikki's IMS @ Texas A&M. And I can't forget "Monica Segal" who is in charge of her diet 

Hang in there and hopefully you will find a treatment that works for Tosca :wub: I know how these issues drain you emotionally and financially!


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

lalachka said:


> Dhau, can you go into the puppy shots? I also believe vaccinations cause allergies however I was hoping that once I stopped vaccinating they'd go away.
> Are you saying that's not true?
> 
> My dog god every single freaking vaccine my vet recommended (they're not my vet anymore). He's 9 months old, has allergies and I'm not giving him another shot.
> ...


Every single dog I've ever owned got their puppy shots and not one developed allergies other than occasional pollen stuff in the spring, but very minor. Hundreds of thousands of puppies get their puppy shots and never develop any type of allergies.

I'm not saying puppy shots are 100% safe with zero side effects, but if I were to guess, I'd say most severe allergy issues have more to do with the dog's genetics and not the parvo/distemper vaccines they received as a puppy.



DHau said:


> I have done everything I can to help my dog from switching dog food, allergy testing, and herbal supplements. Tosca is currently on spirulina and krill oil. These are helping with the itching and licking of the paws. I have been using Braggs ACV internally and externally. I have soaked my dog's paws in Epsom salts to help the itching.


Have you tried claritin?


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

DHau said:


> Let me share what I have experienced. I took in 3 puppies from a neglected household. I fostered them for about 1 week and one of them came down with parvo. I took the dogs for a walk near my home and one of them came down with parvo quickly after receiving puppy shots. It has been a while since this happened so I don't remember every detail. I do know that if a dog has a compromised immune system, you do not give shots. I have read you do not give multiple shots at one time. You are better off giving each one separately. It may cost more but it's healthier for the dog.
> 
> Ever since this has happened I learned about a condition called vaccinosis (sp?) I also do not give my dog any vaccinations due to my dog's compromised immune system which I feel causes allergies. I am not very good at explaining all this stuff so please do research on this topic. It's very eye opening and controversial topic. How many shots have you had since you were a child? So why should a dog be vaccinated as often as the vets say to do so? The allergies my dog have are getting worse. I have never had hair loss on the rear paws, around the eyes or the muzzle until this year.
> 
> ...


I already researched and I def believe shots are a problem. What's confusing me is that your dog is 7 years old and you're saying it's the puppy shots that caused his allergies. 

So you never gave him another shot after puppy shots and the allergies never went away?

I was hoping after the puppy shots at some point the immune system builds itself back up. 


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I'd like to know the ratio of dogs that got their puppy shots to the ones that developed severe allergies. I'd assume it's a very small percentage.

Would you suggest not getting puppy shots and risking parvo? I'd rather take my chance with 3 parvo/distemper puppy shots, a booster, and titers for the rest of the dog's life.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Lucy Dog said:


> Every single dog I've ever owned got their puppy shots and not one developed allergies other than occasional pollen stuff in the spring, but very minor. Hundreds of thousands of puppies get their puppy shots and never develop any type of allergies.
> 
> I'm not saying puppy shots are 100% safe with zero side effects, but if I were to guess, I'd say most severe allergy issues have more to do with the dog's genetics and not the parvo/distemper vaccines they received as a puppy.
> 
> ...


He had no problems for the month or 2 after i got him. Also, as I said, I gave him every vaccine the vet recommended and lumped some of them up. He got a lot of shots. 

I know that some dogs do fine after shots but that doesn't mean shots are not the problem


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

lalachka said:


> He had no problems for the month or 2 after i got him. Also, as I said, I gave him every vaccine the vet recommended and lumped some of them up. He got a lot of shots.
> 
> I know that some dogs do fine after shots but that doesn't mean shots are not the problem
> 
> ...


How old was he when you got him? Not all problems pop up the second a dog is born. Their bodies go through a lot of changes that first year. Two months really isn't that much time, especially when they're that young.

And what scientific case studies have you seen that have legitimately linked the two to convince you that puppy shots cause allergies for life? Not random internet article or joe schmoe playing internet expert writing on a message board. A legit third party case study.

I just find it very hard to believe that it's not your dog's (or anyones dog) genetics that are behind a dog having allergy issues for life. But I'd have no problem with science proving me wrong.


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

lalachka said:


> I already researched and I def believe shots are a problem. What's confusing me is that your dog is 7 years old and you're saying it's the puppy shots that caused his allergies.
> 
> So you never gave him another shot after puppy shots and the allergies never went away?
> 
> ...


After doing research on the internet about shots and the foster dog getting parvo, I was convinced that they can be harmful. I had a friend whose dog had very bad side affects every time it had a vaccination. It has been a long time since I have been on this forum so I cannot remember who the expert is on giving vaccinations. Maybe another member can help me out. For some reason my brain is thinking Dodds, but don't think so because that's the expert on thyroids. 

I try to avoid vaccinations. When I had to board my dog, she got one for kennel cough and, to keep her legal, I had to give a rabie shot which I made sure it was a 3-year version. Vets do not want you to know they are available so they make money with each trip to see them. That is my opinion.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

DHau said:


> After doing research on the internet about shots and the foster dog getting parvo, I was convinced that they can be harmful. I had a friend whose dog had very bad side affects every time it had a vaccination. It has been a long time since I have been on this forum so I cannot remember who the expert is on giving vaccinations. Maybe another member can help me out. For some reason my brain is thinking Dodds, but don't think so because that's the expert on thyroids.
> 
> I try to avoid vaccinations. When I had to board my dog, she got one for kennel cough and, to keep her legal, I had to give a rabie shot which I made sure it was a 3-year version. Vets do not want you to know they are available so they make money with each trip to see them. That is my opinion.


Dr Dodds is a minimalist. Her protocol is for three sets of parvo/distemper shots, rabies, a one year booster, and titers every three years after that. She doesn't recommend every vaccine under the sun, but still says to get your puppy vaccinated. Just with the ones that are needed.

While some vets recommend every vaccine, not all are like that. I can't imagine one vet, regular or holistic, saying not to get any vaccinations at all for your puppy. The tiny risk of side effects is worth the protection against parvo. 

Keep in mind puppies aren't fully vaccinated until around 16-18 weeks. They can still catch it at 14 weeks and after two sets of vaccinations. There is no such thing as full 100% protection. They could still get it after full vaccination at 16-18 weeks, but the chance of that happening is greatly reduced.


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

When I moved to GA 14 years ago, I found a forum called Leerburg.com I think. This was many years ago so not sure about the name. Anyway, many members of the forum were advocates of feeding raw and no shots whatsoever. I have been so conditioned to believe that the vets know everything so I went ahead and did it too. When I got Tosca, a friend told me to go raw and no shots because her dog was very healthy. Now I wonder if things may have been different if I followed her advice. I am not a gambler so I didn't want to take the chance of my dog getting sick. Now look at me. lol.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

*ADMIN NOTE:*

Dog owner/breeder disagreements are to be discussed in PRIVATE. The board is NOT a vehicle to air dirty laundry in public view. I cleaned up this thread and deleted some posts. Further finger pointing, name calling, petty arguing will make this thread disappear. 

ADMIN


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

DHau said:


> When I moved to GA 14 years ago, I found a forum called Leerburg.com I think. This was many years ago so not sure about the name. Anyway, many members of the forum were advocates of feeding raw and no shots whatsoever. I have been so conditioned to believe that the vets know everything so I went ahead and did it too. When I got Tosca, a friend told me to go raw and no shots because her dog was very healthy. Now I wonder if things may have been different if I followed her advice. I am not a gambler so I didn't want to take the chance of my dog getting sick. Now look at me. lol.


I think you would have been in the same exact position you're in now. 

Or maybe you'd be asking why you decided to listen to randoms on a message board and had to spend thousands of dollars in vet bills to nurse your 12 week old puppy back from parvo because you decided not to do any vaccinations. Then you'd have to deal with all of his allergy issues on top of that.

When it comes to vaccinations, I'll take Dr Dodds' (an expert in the field) advice long before some anonymous name on a leerburg message board.


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

You make some very good points.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Lucy Dog said:


> How old was he when you got him? Not all problems pop up the second a dog is born. Their bodies go through a lot of changes that first year. Two months really isn't that much time, especially when they're that young.
> 
> And what scientific case studies have you seen that have legitimately linked the two to convince you that puppy shots cause allergies for life? Not random internet article or joe schmoe playing internet expert writing on a message board. A legit third party case study.
> 
> I just find it very hard to believe that it's not your dog's (or anyones dog) genetics that are behind a dog having allergy issues for life. But I'd have no problem with science proving me wrong.


I got him at 10 weeks. 

I don't know if there are studies, it makes sense to me though. Dogs shouldn't be allergic to beef or chicken. The fact that most vaccines are made out of them coupled with the fact that vets overshoot the dogs make this theory make sense to me. 

Of course I don't know for sure but to me that's the most plausible explanation. 

There are way too many dogs having allergies these days. Where is this all coming from? They weren't like this back in the day. 

And I'm hoping his allergies are not for life. I'm hoping they will wear out. 

From now in he will only get titers for rabies (law here) and no other vaccines. 


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I didn't say I wouldn't do parvo and distemper, I would. And rabies because we have to here. 

But I wouldn't do any other ones. 

And maybe the shots are not the cause. But then I don't understand where all the allergies are coming from on all these dogs. 


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

I believe it's based on genetics to start with. The problem is that it can't be proven because I do not think breeders stay in close contact with all the owners of their progeny for the life of the dogs for one reason or another. I know I have not with all the purebreds I have had. Another way to see if it's genetics is to compare siblings from a litter. Many times owners like to keep in touch with other owners of their littermates. I have tried with Tosca's because I find it interesting to see before and after pictures. 

My previous breeder in CA would hold reunions of litter mates which was so nice so we could compare in person. We also took a group photo.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

2012 Dr. Jean Dodds protocol

Canine Vaccination Protocol

9 - 10 Weeks Old: *Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV (e.g. Intervet Progard Puppy DPV, now renamed Nobivac DPV, when Merck and Intervet merged)

14 Weeks Old:Same as above

16 - 18 Weeks Old (optional):Same as above (optional)

20 weeks or older, if allowable by law:Rabies

1 Year Oldistemper + Parvovirus,MLV (optional = titer)

1+ Years Old:*Rabies, killed 3-year product (give 3-4 weeks apart from distemper/parvovirus booster)Perform vaccine antibody titers for distemper and parvovirus every three years thereafter, or more often, if desired. Vaccinate for rabies virus according to the law, except where circumstances indicate that a written waiver needs to be obtained from the primary care veterinarian. *In that case, a rabies antibody titer can also be performed to accompany the waiver request. *

3rd booster is optional. Her personal preference was to skip as per her email to me.

This subject has been argued repeatedly on this forum. 

I believe over vaccinating stresses the immune system thus allowing many problems to manifest.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

A dog's system should be able to withstand a vaccine. If we are breeding these spun glass creatures who need enzymes to process food - FOOD, who can't tolerate a tiny bump in their system, who have myriad health issues, then something is wrong - in general, not just the dog on this thread. I see so many enzyme posts it blows my mind - survival should be the #1 thing an animal is suited for, and these animals are unable to do so without assistance in processing their meals. And not just old dogs....yikes. 

I've had dogs/fosters vaccinated who I knew were probably already vaccinated - but there was no proof and it's required, see so many dogs through rescue vaccinated with absolutely no issues - they are not all GSDs - and they are also not all healthy when vaccinated, but they thrive. We don't, after getting them started, do yearly obviously, but I think that any animal so sensitive to a vaccine is not going to fare well with any other minor assault on their system and would like to see _that_ studied - the general health and responses to insult of dogs with known/confirmed vaccine reactions. Because I think that may be the core similarity - something like low IgA or other indicators of a weak system, something genetic perhaps like Denise says, not the reaction to the vaccine itself.


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

What I find interesting is how many dogs of all breeds have allergies. Whenever I go to the vet, I visit with staff members, including the vet, about their pets and the majority of their dogs have allergies so they all commiserate with me. lol. Seriously, a study should be done as to why this is happening. Is it the water? The air that the dogs breath while carrying puppies? There has to be a common denominator!

Seriously, a dog allergic to Bermuda grass?


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## Jagenstadt (Feb 1, 2004)

> _*** Removed by ADMIN - original post was deleted *** _


I follow Dodd's protocol, both my vets (one for general care one for xrays) also follow Dodd's protocol. _ *** Removed by ADMIN - condescending and patronizing *** _. Many Vet's do the same. I believe that much of the decline in the health of todays GSD's is directly related to years of over-vaccinating, terrible dog food and years of close line breeding. That is why I choose to keep vaccines to a minimum, feed grain-free kibble along with fresh meat and supplements and steer clear of close line breeding.


> A dog's system should be able to withstand a vaccine. If we are breeding these spun glass creatures who need enzymes to process food - FOOD, who can't tolerate a tiny bump in their system, who have myriad health issues, then something is wrong


Agreed....something is terribly wrong.
This is a copy of new regulations that the new breed warden in Germany has put into effect. The German's who are supposedly the "Guardian's of the breed" are finally pulling their heads out of the sand and starting to address some of the health issues in the breed as they relate to "Flavor of the month dogs" and line breeding in general.



> VA groups in the SV Bundessiegerzuchtschau and the direction of the breed
> 
> The improvement of the current situation in the breeding of the German Shepherd is not only the responsibility of the office of the club breed warden, but also the personal concern of the newly elected office-holder Lothar Quoll. For the duration of his tenure, he has five core themes defined, and the implementation has already begun.
> 
> ...


I have just returned from Germany (the Sieger Show) and while there I purchased a new male for breeding. He's a super dog in every respect and he is also free of Ursus, Quantum, Pakros, Esko and Quenn. These blood lines are the most popular and widely used West German Show lines not only in Germany but in every country where breeders follow "the German Scheme" of things. After owning GSD's for 50 years and breeding for about 25 years I have witnessed the steady decline in the breed in ALL areas, General Health (compromised immune systems), Longevity, Intelligence, Temperament, Character, Reproduction and Anatomy as it relates to Agility and Function. Even with a long and excellent back ground with the breed and very careful selection it is becoming harder and harder to breed healthy dogs, not a good sign for the future of the breed. I have made many "Breeder Friends" over the years and we talk regularly about the health in different blood lines and the breed in general and these problems unfortunately are not only in Show lines but Working lines also and regardless of what some breeders may admit publically there is no one immune to it, ALL GSD breeders are dealing with these issues.

I decided about a year ago that if I can not find the best representatives of the breed that will consistently produce what a German Shepherd should be then I will not continue to breed. I'm fortunate to have a great job that pays me well and I do not depend on the income of the sale of a puppy to support my family. My love of the breed and my reputation means more to me then any amount of money. There are many people out there that breed for a living, I often wonder how the increase in health issues will affect how they breed and do business. It's past the point of "Stacking the Deck" to produce great puppies, even with stacking the deck great results are getting harder and harder to achieve. A breeders knowledge of the breed is extremely important but when dealing with Mother Nature luck can also play a big role. You can only be lucky for so long but it will eventually catch up to you. It's very frustrating to watch the steady decline in the breed and know that there is very little you can do stop it. Hopefully the good healthy ones will far out-weigh the ones with problems .... Time will tell.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Denise: You answered your own question in your above quote **healthy genetics** is the answer 

Here is a website you may find interesting. Dr. Lewis took care of my Heidi for five years, she had severe allergies. Read this part all the way to the end! http://www.dermatologyforanimals.com/faq-06/

Jean: Excellent post.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

lalachka said:


> And maybe the shots are not the cause. But then I don't understand where all the allergies are coming from on all these dogs.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Poor breeding. It's not just a problem with German Shepherds. Allergies are genetic.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Lucy Dog said:


> Poor breeding. It's not just a problem with German Shepherds. Allergies are genetic.


:thumbup:


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

something is missing from this thread - Heidi's post deleted or altered?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Poor breeding. It's not just a problem with German Shepherds. Allergies are genetic.


 
I would not lay this entirely on the doorstep of breeding . Changes in diet , aides - digestive enzymes and probiotics bring on some dramatic results .


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

carmspack said:


> I would not lay this entirely on the doorstep of breeding . Changes in diet , aides - digestive enzymes and probiotics bring on some dramatic results .


I agree. Breed the best dog you want, then give him every vaccine under the sun and see what happens. 

Dog food too. All the chemicals in meat. But I believe over vaccinating causes many problems, allergies included

I can only speak for my dog. He got rabbies at 3 months even though vets themselves said it should've been 4 (after the fact). 

I'm kicking myself now but it's too late. I also agreed to everything else they pushed, bordetella, lepto, Lyme disease, some other ****. I don't know how I got out of the canine flu or whatever else they were pressing me about. 

I'm saying 'no thank you' and they keep trying to scare me with scenarios of him getting sick. 

Again, I was an idiot, I thought I can trust the vet and not have to research everything they suggest. I learned but unfortunately a little too late for my dog. 


Then, once I got the allergies the amount of dumb things said and stuff pushed on me increased. I finally stopped going, switched him to raw (against their advice of course, they said purina is the answer) and he's getting better.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Sorry this is so lengthy, but you need all the pieces of the puzzle to put it together!
IMHO, it’s really all about the gut! Food is life…..so a dogs system (or person’, for that matter) has to be able to process the food correctly to be used by the body and, 65% of diseases, in the gut. I know there are some dogs that have eaten Ole Roy their whole life and were never sick but most of us aren’t that lucky. Whether it’s genetics, a dam not passing on proper immunities, or over vaccinating, a lot of our dogs have health problems, some small, some large. Whose dog is going to be affected????? You just don’t know!
Sounds like everyone is voicing their opinions here, so here's my take on things: Dog’s are carnivores….yes, I know, everyone has different views on this  but there is only a 1% or 2% DNA difference between a Chihuahua and a wolf. Dogs have pointed canine teeth (not flat teeth like a horse) and their jaw ONLY moves up and down (not sideways like a cow)! So everybody will have to decide that one themselves.  Anyway…….dogs/wolves were meant to eat meat. Of course they have adapted to what we have chosen to feed them such as grains or processed foods. But, if your dog got lost out in the country and had to find food to survive, would he run into a wheat field and chow down or would he find some road kill or a nest of baby bunnies and eat that instead…jess sayin! 

Dogs' were designed to get live enzymes from the fresh prey that they killed. Their pancreas only produces a certain amount of enzymes (they didn’t need a lot b/c they ate live foods) and if they are not getting the enzymes they need from their prey’s guts and entrails, they have to get it from somewhere to be able to digest, absorb, and assimilate their food PROPERLY. Not having enough enzymes to do this can create mal-digestion and or mal-absorption in some dogs. The dog may end up only partially digesting its food in the stomach, and partially fermenting it in the gut and not absorbing all the nutrients and vitamins in the food. The dry kibble or the canned foods we feed are cooked at high temperatures so they are depleted of their enzymes and are therefore not living foods. This causes the pancreas to over tax itself trying to keep up, which can eventually weaken it allowing toxins to build up in the system. This is a key time for issues like yeast, pancreatitis, epi, diarrhea, bad breath, doggy order, allergies, arthritis, skin issues and a compromised immune system (to name a few), take hold. Many pet foods get a lot of their “protein” from grains instead of from meat. The dogs system was not designed to digest the complex proteins in grains so this is why a “grain free” diet is best for those dogs with issues. Also, popular pet foods have wheat, corn or fish meal in them which most likely has been contaminated with Mycotoxins, which are toxins from mold and fungi. Another thing is that most “plant products” today are Genetically Modified (GMO’s) *which create inflammatory conditions. *And, there are some Bacteria’s called Endotoxins which are not destroyed during the cooking process of kibble. Pet food manufacturers *do not test for these toxins*. These are things that can also weaken or compromise the gut and/or immune system. A dogs’ gastrointestinal system protects them from allergens. Since 70% of the immune system lies in the digestive tract, a dogs’ immune system HAS to be functioning properly to fight off the allergens. That is why Digestive Enzymes and Probiotics are so very important to your pets.

I should also mention the environmental toxins the dogs face every day, such as treated lawns, chemicals in the home, topical flea/tick meds, smoke and on and on! These things also can weaken the immune system allowing issues to creep in.

California, nutritional consultant Elaine Reinhardt hears every day from people whose dogs have chronic allergies. “Leaky gut syndrome is at the root of many illnesses,” she says, “including autoimmune diseases, joint diseases, and allergic reactions. Since much of your immune function is in your gut, it makes sense to look there first. Certainly this is true when it comes to allergies.”
Dogs Naturally Magazine: Allergy symptoms appear when the major organs required to detoxify the body are overworked. When dogs have a heavy toxin load, the liver, kidneys and digestive tract not only become overworked and can’t keep up with demand, they also become overloaded with toxins. The result is impaired metabolic processes and free radical damage and this results in inflammation and immune issues. When the liver, kidneys and digestive tract become unable to release toxins from the body, other organs will attempt to do the job. The largest organ in the body, the skin, will begin to show the impact of the toxins as it attempts to eliminate them. Allergy symptoms including hot spots, itchy and inflamed ears and red, itchy skin, are merely symptoms of a larger problem that has already developed in the liver, kidneys and digestive tract. “Allergies are of gut origin unless proven otherwise,” states Eddy Beltram, DVM, of the Blair Animal Hospital in Ottawa. “Lungs, feet, ears, and skin are the tip of the iceberg. The problem is in the bowel.”

Randy Kidd, DMV, PhD: "In every case of allergy, I initiate immediate treatment of the dog’s gastrointestinal system. As we heal the gut, we in turn enhance the immune system – recognizing that a good portion of the immune system is located in the gut wall. A balanced immune system helps the dog deal naturally with any allergen that may be causing allergic reactions, whether this allergen is contact (skin-induced), inhalant (respiratory induced), or gut induced (food allergy). It’s been my experience that if we can get the immune system balanced, most, if not all allergies, tend to go away."


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

excellent response Momto2! basically what I have said many many times. This is what my research finds , true whether dog or human - good primer book is Brenda Watson's Gut Solutions . 
Not only does the gut affect general health (absorption of nutrients) , the gut has a two way with the brain -- mood , anxiety, depression as serotonin is by and large produced in the gut "
Written by: Kevin Cann​ Serotonin is one of our neurotransmitters that are responsible for our mood. If our serotonin levels fall off we may experience anxiety and depression. More information about serotonin can be found in a previous article I wrote here, http://robbwolf.com/2012/10/05/serotonin-deficiency-food-cravings/. What many people do not understand is that serotonin also plays a role in gastrointestinal disorders. In fact, the majority of our serotonin is produced in the gut, roughly 95%.
Serotonin is produced in the enterochromaffin cells (EC) in the intestinal mucosa"

the digestive system is vital to well being.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

carmspack said:


> excellent response Momto2! basically what I have said many many times. This is what my research finds , true whether dog or human - good primer book is Brenda Watson's Gut Solutions .
> Not only does the gut affect general health (absorption of nutrients) , the gut has a two way with the brain -- mood , anxiety, depression as serotonin is by and large produced in the gut "
> Written by: Kevin Cann​ Serotonin is one of our neurotransmitters that are responsible for our mood. If our serotonin levels fall off we may experience anxiety and depression. More information about serotonin can be found in a previous article I wrote here, http://robbwolf.com/2012/10/05/serotonin-deficiency-food-cravings/. What many people do not understand is that serotonin also plays a role in gastrointestinal disorders. In fact, the majority of our serotonin is produced in the gut, roughly 95%.
> Serotonin is produced in the enterochromaffin cells (EC) in the intestinal mucosa"
> ...


I did not know that serotonin was produced in the gut!!!!
Good info refs! Thank You Carm!
Ya learn something new every day!
Moms


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Here is some additional information for those interested in the products mentioned below: 
*SeaCure: *The following tips and suggested amounts are a great starting point.
*To reduce its fishy odor, store Seacure in the freezer.
*For maintenance, adjust the label dosage to your dog’s weight (1/4 teaspoon of the powder for every 10 pounds of body weight per day, or 1 capsule per 20 pounds, or 1 of the Seacure Pet Tabs per 10 pounds of body weight). Seacure is nontoxic and can be given in quantities that exceed label doses.
*To help prevent toxemia in pregnancy, give at least the maintenance dose from breeding to whelping.
*For underweight or malnourished puppies, or to supplement a mother dog’s milk, mix Seacure with enough pure or filtered water to make a milk-like liquid and feed by dropper or nursing bottle.
*To prevent adverse symptoms of detoxification on fast days, when switching from commercial to home-prepared food, or when using herbs and supplements that support detoxification, give at least the maintenance dose.
*To help dogs recover from surgery, cuts, wounds, trauma injuries, or broken bones, give at least twice the maintenance dose.
**To treat digestive disorders, such as diarrhea, colitis, or irritable bowel disease,* give at least 1/4 teaspoon per 10 pounds of body weight twice or three times per day between or just before meals.
*After symptoms subside, use the maintenance dose. Products 

*SeaVive Information: * 
*IMMUNE SYSTEM MISSION: Prevent disease and infection*
Mucous membranes that line body cavities open to the  environment, such as those found in the nose and gut, house antibodies called immunoglobulins that ensnare pathogens and potential antigens encountered in daily life. Thus, mucous membranes function as the first step in the mission of the immune system to prevent disease and infection.
Toxic invaders that sneak by the mucosal barrier are met by white blood cells called macrophages, which by a process called phagocytosis literally digest and destroy invaders in the blood. Thus, macrophages become the body's inside line of defense responsible for seeking and indiscriminately destroying viruses, parasites, fungi, and bacteria.
Two new supplements aid and assist these defenses against disease and infection. They are Colostrum, which supplies critical immunoglobulins to block invaders at the level of the mucosal barrier, and Beta glucan, which stimulates the action of the macrophages to phagocytize invaders in the blood stream. A third supplement * Seacure*® aids the immune system indirectly by correcting pathogenic bowel permeability to prevent hazards from passing through the gut membrane to infect internal organs. Finally, Vitamin C is well recognized for its immune-supportive properties. All four of these components are combined to produce the one-of-a-kind immune-booster ... * SeaVive*®. About SeaVive


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

_ *** Removed by ADMIN, part of thread clean-up *** _

Momto2GSDs and carmspack, you both provided excellent information. Thank you.

Moderator: I always try to be polite in my posts in order to not offend anybody, but there are times when one has to stand up for oneself therefore, I hope this post is not deleted. If there are members who disagree with another member's post, then it should be politely discussed which I have tried to do. Thank you.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Won't delete, but I'll lock it, and removed some passages.

ADMIN


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