# Pup with Megaesophagus--need info/advice



## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Geez, I'm heartbroken. 4 months ago, I lost my heartdog to hemangio. I finally decided it was time to get a pup and two weeks ago, found my perfect baby girl. I spent 90 minutes with the very kind and patient breeder visiting the pups from two litters--lovely East German lines.

I ended up falling head over heels for a beautiful sable girl--her pics are in the pictures section. I am due to pick her up this Saturday, when she is 8 weeks old.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...rue#Post1052504


I was really not sure if I was ready or would be able to attach to another dog after Lucy, her loss has been devastating. This pup stole my heart like none of the others, I swear, I practically saw rainbows and heard music when I held her. Her breeder adores her, says she's very, very sweet and laid back. She was also the first pup to check out the agility tunnel.

The pup has not been gaining weight and has been throwing up. The breeder had her checked out and we found out today that she has ME. Apparently the vet said that it's not as bad, per the x-ray, as it can be, compared to x-rays of other pups who have had it.

I'm very grateful for her for getting the puppy checked and she now needs to find a home for the pup--who is now free--who can manage her needs. She will keep her if nobody can be found.

I am crushed--it's not like puppies are interchangeable, this was MY pup and for some reason, I'm very attached, even after just meeting her once.

I'm sure there are threads on this, I ran a couple of searches and did not find them.

Anybody out there deal with this? What is the life expectancy of the dog and how to you accomodate their special needs?

I would be willing to think about it if I can make an informed decision about whether I can manage it, but I don't want to set myself up for heartbreak either.

I will call my vet and have him call HER vet for more info, and fill me in. But I need to hear from folks who live with it....would you take the pup??









Thanks for any advice.

Jennifer


----------



## DSudd (Sep 22, 2006)

Jennifer I dont have any experience with this, but I know of one member who does have a pup with it. I will PM you the info I have on her.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

So sorry your little pup to be has MegaE! 

I fostered a gsd puppy whose breeder turned him in to the vet to be pts b/c he had persistent right aortic arch. The vet did corrective surgery and gave Rio to the rescue I worked with. He had MegaE but it wasn't severe and he didn't need a corrective chair. I was able to make his food and puree it into a gruel like consistency and feed him on a milk crate. Then I kept him quiet for a while after he ate. I also fed him many more times a day (5). He did great. 

When he was adopted they continued with the homemade food for a while and then switched him over to raw and he really thrived. I was told he would be very small b/c of the praa but he grew to be 80 pounds and was very healthy. 

When he was 5 his adoptive mom had to leave home suddenly and she gave him back to the rescue. At that time they tried to feed him kibble (I tried to warn them!) and he was regurgitating. I recommended they switch him to a freeze-dried, add water and raw meat food and they did and he was adopted and is still doing great at age 8. 

Darcy1 has fostered at least one puppy with MegaE and Lisa, who is rarely on here, has a dog with severe MegaE and she's done an amazing job with her!!!!!!!!!


----------



## fourdogsrule (May 10, 2007)

Jennifer, 
I know someone that has a dog with Mega E. I will contact her and give her your info. and maybe she can give you some info. and help.


----------



## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

That is encouraging. I don't know if I can afford the raw diet, but I can be creative. The breeder is making her a slurry using goatsmilk, which she is loving. I bought a bag of Blue Buffalo large breed puppy kibble---can kibble be soaked and used in the food or would that not work. What was in the gruel you made?

I work full time and get home for lunch (most days) so feeding 5x a day would not be possible. Three--yes.

I want to make sure I can do right by the puppy--my heart says yes, but I want to know I can do it right.

I fear that as an ME dog ages, their hind ends may not be able to support them as they eat, or they might be hard to maneuver in to a chair. I'm trying to think ahead......

How about water....can they use a gerbil-type bottle that they have to stretch up to drink from??

And the milk crate--she'd stand with her front feet on it? 

Hmmm...my head is spinning, but it seems like their may be possibilities.........

Jennifer


----------



## gsdlove212 (Feb 3, 2006)

Jennifer, I am so sorry to hear about this. Unfortunately the only experience I have with Mega E did not have a happy ending, but it was diagnosed much later in life...my mom's boy was 3 I think when he passed. I do know of some members on here who have dogs with Mega E, and they seem to be doing well...hopefully they chime in here. My biggest concern with this pup, is that she is already showing some strong symptoms (not gaining weight). Good luck with whatever you decide to do....my prayers are with you.


----------



## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

Sorry to hear your sad news, what is ME? she looks so sweet.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Rio actually just stood regularly on the floor and ate from the milk crate. In cases that are severe there is a special chair that you strap them into to eat and they can be trained to climb into the chair on their own. 

I used a recipe from the Pitcairn book for puppies who needed to gain extra weight. It worked great. I think I initially fed him 5 times a day because he needed extra meals in order to put on more weight but once he started gaining weight I switched him to 3 meals. 

Actually, I also dealt with another MegaE dog that someone was trying to rehome through the gsd rescue. He was about 5 and doing fine. His dad soaked his kibble and he was able to eat that. He didn't have to have a special chair or anything. His was also a mild case. 

I know in more severe cases you have to be very careful of aspiration pneumonia. Lisa from this board uses a feeding tube for her dog.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JenniferD I don't know if I can afford the raw diet, but I can be creative.


I can't say that I know anything about MegaE because, well, I don't, but raw _can_ be affordable. I buy meat for $1/lb from the grocery store and I think that you could probably do a raw diet for whatever amount you're paying for Blue Buffalo. I just wanted to reassure you that, if raw would help your pup the most, it is DEFINITELY doable for a reasonable cost.

Good luck with your pup. I hope you can find a way to make her yours.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

But it might have to be a raw diet with ground up bones and meat--more like the Primal and Bravo grinds. And that might not work for this pup. 

I do get the Primal chicken grind for $16 for 10 pounds so that's pretty cheap.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowBut it might have to be a raw diet with ground up bones and meat


Oh, yeah. I forgot that... and I literally JUST read about what MegaE is.


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I have a question... would the breeder be willing to let you do, like, a trial run with the pup to see if this is something that you can handle? I know that would only bring you closer to the puppy if you were to actually bring her home and spend so much time with her and that that will, ultimately, make this more difficult but maybe a trial run would help you to figure out if you could do this in the long run.


----------



## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

All good info.......and i do buy pricey kibble, so I may be able to juggle the budget a bit.

The poor pup also has coccidia---a parasite--which she's on meds for. That may also be contributing to her being small--she's about 6 pounds at 7 weeks. I'm told her energy and playfulness are good and she has not done a lot of vomiting, but I need to talk to my vet about how the condition is affected by the pup growing---can it be worse or better than it looks now? Is the x-ray a good determining factor of what her needs will be? 

I love my vet and I know he'll give me some good info, I just have to be practical about if I can put things in to practice.

Also, I have read that ME can be a symptom of myasthenia gravis--a very serious disease with a poor prognosis. I need to find out more about that.

Nothing good is ever easy I guess...

Jen


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

Jennifer I pm'd you. I have a dog with MegaE that I have been managing for quite some time now. Feel free to contact me with any and all questions. Your vet is most likely not going to know much about this condition. My specialist tells me that I know as much as about this condition he does so that speaks for itself on how much research and experience I have with this. It is an elusive disease with no clear answers. I will help in any way that I can.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

There's Lisa!









Your Maiya is considered a severe case, right?


----------



## gsdlove212 (Feb 3, 2006)

Wow 6 pounds at 7 weeks that is TINY. So is she no longer regurgitating her food when she eats? If that is the case, how long has it been since she was throwing up? I think Mega E is a gamble, could go wither way. Could be easily manageable, and might be really hard/expensive to manage. Before taking this pup I would make sure you could handle the worst case scenario, just in case, IMHO of course.


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: JenniferDAll good info.......and i do buy pricey kibble, so I may be able to juggle the budget a bit.
> 
> The poor pup also has coccidia---a parasite--which she's on meds for. That may also be contributing to her being small--she's about 6 pounds at 7 weeks. I'm told her energy and playfulness are good and she has not done a lot of vomiting, but I need to talk to my vet about how the condition is affected by the pup growing---can it be worse or better than it looks now? Is the x-ray a good determining factor of what her needs will be?
> 
> ...


I seriously doubt it is Myasthenia Gravis. My guess is that this pup was born with it. Myasthenia Gravis often affects dogs a little older and shows other symptoms (especially loss of rear end funciton after exercise). 

The illness will not effect the pup from growing if you can keep food down, but that can be the tricky part. Lisa that own Neeco (from German Shepherd World) has raised Neeco since he was 6 weeks old. You should see the pics of him now. He is handsome and doesn't even look sick. 

It can be done but it is a heck of a lot of work. More than I could ever describe over a message board!!


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowThere's Lisa!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, very severe. 

Maiya was not treated as a puppy. Or shall I say she was not "managed". It is very likely because of this her esophagus would just get packed with food food and more food until it stretched out even more. She lived off of her own regurg in a backyard for 2 years prior to her "lovely" owners submitting her to the shelter.

Maiya is fed through a gastrostomy tube. That is the last resort with a mega dog and the worst case feeding scenerio. It really isn't "that" bad and doesn't effect the quality of life in any way but can get costly.

I do want to get it out there not to feed this dog raw. I put it in my pm as well. I know people do it and probably have success with it, but with the risk of aspiration pneumonia soooo high you really don't want to make that worse with raw meat that is already coated in bacteria. The stomach can handle it just fine, but the lungs cannot.


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

Here's a pic of us during feeding time. This was awhile back when we were blending canned dog food, but we have since switched to home cooked and she is doing TONS better. Even gaining more weight.










This is her disconected after her feeding. The tube is non-obtrusive.










And this is her showing that MegaE isn't going to keep her down!


----------



## gsdlove212 (Feb 3, 2006)

What an ispiration Lisa!


----------



## doggonefool (Apr 15, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: mamagoose
> 
> And this is her showing that MegaE isn't going to keep her down!


Wow! She's gorgeous! It looks like she is being Very Well Loved now. Kudo's to you and all dealing with special medical needs. It can be rewarding and heartbreaking all in the same breath...What we do for love


----------



## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Amazing pictures, amazing dog caretaker!

I can't tell you folks how appreciative I am of the info, PM's and advice.

Jennifer


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Lisa has done an amazing job with Maiya! But hopefully this pup isn't that severe. 

When Rio was a puppy I was doing the homemade and altenating between cooked ground turkey, chicken and beef. I would cook the meat in with everything else, like a stew and then puree it.


----------



## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

I joined the yahoo ME support group and it's all overwhelming. So many things to consider--training a dog without treats, not giving access to a water bowl even though my other dog has one, being able to keep the dog upright after eating or drinking, having a basket muzzle on if she likes to nibble at things outside and most of all....I swim my dogs a lot. I'm thinking an ME dog could choke on and aspirate water this way.

It sounds very stressful-- the constant fear of pneumonia. But if I don't take her, I'm not sure I would be interested in another puppy for some time and would have to completely regroup. I would always wonder how she was and if she was okay. But I want it to work for me, her and my other dog as well.

this is a HUGE decision........

Jennifer


----------



## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

There is no reason why raw food that is properly stored & handled would be "covered in bacteria". 

The Feeding Chair - also includes some useful links including the Yahoo group - I'd ask there regarding the frequency of feeding needed for pups to develope normally (my gut reaction is that more meals/day would be better for such a young pup - perhaps you could take this girl when she reaches 4 months ...)

She is a stunning pup!


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm going through the no training treats thing with a little cleft palate puppy right now and it's tricky. Especially because he so _wants_ to eat snacks. It's much easier than ME though because he can now finally eat dry food if it's small enough and he drinks from a hamster water bottle (the tilted head makes it run down his throat and not out his nose). I guess ME pups can still aspirate with that? I don't know ME is a tough one. 

I do just want to say that no matter what you decide your desire to help this puppy and your feeling of commitment to her, even after getting this awful diagnosis, is a very touching thing to see. I am bombarded all day every day with emails from people looking to discard a dog they've had in their family for years. It's pretty darn nice to see someone expressing loyalty to a dog they haven't even brought home yet.


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: AltoThere is no reason why raw food that is properly stored & handled would be "covered in bacteria".


Freezing preserves bacteria and cooking destroys it. Let me guess that you wash your hands after handling raw meat? I do. Raw diets are not a "cure all" and it sure as heck isn't going to help this dogs problem. Why risk it?

Want to feed a normal dog raw? That's cool. I do it. But I'm not risking it with my Mega Dog. It's not worth it. She has done fantastic on a cooked diet. 

I've done two years of this. Researching EVERYDAY! Talking to Animal nutritionists with PhD's, so these are not you average "Joe Schmoes" that are just "certified" or have read a lot about animal nutrition. Oh and I've paid a pretty penny to consult with these people. Each and every single one of them agreed RAW IS NOT FOR THE MEGA DOG!


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: JenniferDI joined the yahoo ME support group and it's all overwhelming. So many things to consider--training a dog without treats


Yes this is a problem. I've trained Maiya "somewhat" but she lacks any serious training due to her condition. I will say we have become more lax when it comes to food and give her treats by mouth daily. We are just careful to not over do it.



> Quote:not giving access to a water bowl even though my other dog has one, being able to keep the dog upright after eating or drinking,


Never did this. Maiya has always had access to the water bowl. It was just too impossible for our lifestyle to do it any other way. I know some dogs have serious problems with water but Maiya does not as long as she doesn't drink a ton of it at once. Fortunately she gets most of her hydration from her food so she doesn't drink that much.



> Quote:having a basket muzzle on if she likes to nibble at things outside and most of all....I swim my dogs a lot. I'm thinking an ME dog could choke on and aspirate water this way.


I stopped doing the muzzle thing too. She eats grass sometimes and occasionally poop. I won't say she's never regurged it back up but for the most part it's not a problem. Yes Mega dogs can aspirate when swimming. Maiya doesn't care for the water so it's been a non-issue. I do know someone that had to stop taking their dog to water therapy because he kept aspirating. He had mega too.



> Quote:It sounds very stressful-- the constant fear of pneumonia. But if I don't take her, I'm not sure I would be interested in another puppy for some time and would have to completely regroup. I would always wonder how she was and if she was okay. But I want it to work for me, her and my other dog as well.


It is EXTREMELY stressful. I won't sugar coat it and tell you it is easy. It's not and could easily be one of the hardest diseases out there to deal with because there is NO standard treatment. You have to think out of the box more often than not and finding a veterinarian to do this is extremely difficult. I tell my vet what I want to do and what I think is wrong and he just goes with it. When we are treating Maiya we are almost collegues versus a doctor/patient relationship. 



> Quote:this is a HUGE decision........
> 
> Jennifer


Yes it is and while would not part with Maiya for the world I would never adopt another Mega dog again. I'm sorry to say that but I just wouldn't. The stress can be unbearable. However, she has taught me a lot of things but most importantly she has taught me to accept that nothing in life is certain. If you can accept that you can make it through MegaE. 

If you are attatched to the puppy that much then I say take it and what may come will come. She may live a year, or she may surprise you and live a full life. The most important thing is quality of life and not quantity. I promise not many people are going to want to take on a dog like this. I don't blame them, but you should not because of that reason alone. There needs to be a connection between the two of you because if there isn't, your just not going to make it. 

I don't want to sound dreadful, but I prefer to put it out there in as realistic terms as possible. People did nothing but inspire me with Maiya and make it sound like everything was going to be easy. You can imagine my disappointment when I found out otherwise. So I'm just trying to keep it real and give you both the upside and the downside.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Camper was regurgitating his meals and we thought he had mega-e. (Turns out, he had partial torsion. Similar symptoms, different diagnosis).

I had been feeding him a raw diet for several years. For those who assume that a raw diet is appropriate for a mega dog, the ONLY way I could make it work was to buy a very expensive industrial strength grinder (not a kitchen grinder) that made mush out of the meat and bones. Then I added water to it to make a soupy mix. 

I think raw diets are, overall, a good thing if done correctly. But they aren't a panacea for everything, and often aren't appropriate for dogs with certain illnesses and syndromes. Freeze dried raw (at least the brands I tried) still has lumps in it, and is incredibly expensive. Regular ground meat from the grocery store is too coarse. 

I spent a lot of money to find a way to make Camper's raw diet work under our specific set of circumstances, and it took a lot of time as well. 

If I were starting out without any information, I'd befriend Lisa and learn all I could from her.


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomCamper was regurgitating his meals and we thought he had mega-e. (Turns out, he had partial torsion. Similar symptoms, different diagnosis).
> 
> I had been feeding him a raw diet for several years. For those who assume that a raw diet is appropriate for a mega dog, the ONLY way I could make it work was to buy a very expensive industrial strength grinder (not a kitchen grinder) that made mush out of the meat and bones. Then I added water to it to make a soupy mix.
> 
> ...


Thank you Lori. Very sweet of you.

I was just telling a friend the same thing. If you wanted to do raw it would be so much more trouble than it is worth. The benefit of raw isnt' going to help the esophagus which is the biggest problem (no pun intended). The risk of aspiration is entirely too high for even a MILDLY effected mega dog. You do not have to have a severely affected dog to worry about aspriation. You do not want your dog aspirating raw meat because it DOES have more bacteria than cooked meat. Aspirating ANYTHING into the lungs is bad, but lets try to keep the bacteria to a minimum. 

The question here, as with all mega dogs, isn't WHAT they are fed but the consistency of what they are fed. It's all about volume and it's all about consistency, and finding the correct ratio of both is more tricky and painstaking than one might think. 

Thank you again Lori.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Rio had access to water and because his is a mild case he has led a very normal life. It really wasn't stressful fostering him at all because he did very well on homemade food and wasn't aspirating. I remember doing a lot of reading and becoming really depressed about the whole thing but it turned out to very minor for him. He only has problems with solid food. 

Same with that dog Ace that was an owner surrender. He fed his dog meatball consistency food and as long as he stuck with that Ace was fine. Neither dog needed the chair. 

I think the key thing is to find out the degree of problem she has. Btw, Rio was 10 weeks when I took him into foster care and he was tiny!


----------



## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Jennifer,

The Vet the breeder uses is awesome you could call her and ask her questions too! 

Just a thought I support you in what ever decision you make!


----------



## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Wow, again, thanks to everyone and yes, I feel that this puppy was halfway "mine" already.

I'm scared of the stress--caring for Lucy while she had hemangio turned me tin to an exhausted shell, waiting for the end while cherishing the moment.

This is a tough time to make a decision---my father died 10 days ago and I'm raw and dreading any more losses.

But it's not impossible, is it.

Hmmm.


can a vet tell, at age 7-9 weeks, the extent of the condition via x-rays, or is that just one tool of determining the severity and the rest has to be learned by trial and error???

Anybody have a Magic 8 ball??????????

Jennifer


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: JenniferD
> 
> 
> can a vet tell, at age 7-9 weeks, the extent of the condition via x-rays, or is that just one tool of determining the severity and the rest has to be learned by trial and error???


They can tell how big the esophagus is, if it has pockets etc. (they have to do a barium) but there is no way to tell how it can affect the dog. The good news is this is a puppy. You have a chance to keep the stretching to a minimun and there is the possibility that nerve function will return or at least improve as the pup ages.



> Quote:Anybody have a Magic 8 ball??????????


 Oh Lord I wish! Your vet won't be able to help you much either. They can tell you about it and give you textbook ideas to treat it, but it's such an individual dog thing none of it matters until you jump in there and start managing it. 

I was lucky enough to find a vet (after a previous one almost killed her) who's own dog had Mega, so at least mine understood the complexity of the disease and how "not simple" it was to treat. It's nice to have a vet that understands but I would immediately hook up with an internist as well. They have far more experience with Mega than regular vets do. 
[/quote]


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I'm not a fan of barium, and speaking to my internist, neither is she. The risks of aspiration is rather high. The problem, she has seen, is that the techs at regular vet offices rush the procedure (after the barium is administered) which leads to the risk of aspiration. This just isn't a procedure that the average vet office does frequently. 

Before I even chatted with my internist about this, I had Camper in to my regular vet for xrays. My vet mentioned barium, and I said no, that if the xrays didn't show what we needed to see, I'd go to the internist's office for a scope. I know, scopes require anesthesia, also not without risks. Now, I probably WOULD have been willing to have the barium studies done at the specialist's office because there, the techs are very skilled at these more complicated procedures (two of the "techs" are actually DVMs). 


So, that's just my two cents about the diagnosis process. I understand barium studies are done frequently enough. But there is a risk, especially when done by people who don't do them often. At the very least, in your shoes, I would ask my vet when was the last time he did a barium study for mega-e, how frequently he does them, and how many he has done in his career. If the numbers are low, I'd ask for a referral to an internist.


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

Good point Lori and that is something that completely slipped my mind. Barium x-rays can go horribly wrong with Mega dogs due to aspiration. So can anesthesia from the scope which Maiya almost died from. Oh God that is a horrible story perhaps I will share at another time.

We were lucky when we did Maiya's barium with a regular vet because I was none the wiser and she didn't aspirate. Actually he did regular x-rays originally and nothing showed, so then he did barium. What I learned later is it showed on the originals he just didn't know how to read them!!!!! 

After he almost killed her from a "light sedation" I switched vets and made it a point that NO ONE does any tests or puts her under unless it is her specialist. And yes, you will pay twice as much for a normal test from a specialist than you do a vet. We were going to have her spayed for the bargain price of $1200 but the surgeon told us "why bother at her age the risk is greater than the reward".


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:The pup has not been gaining weight and has been throwing up. The breeder had her checked out and we found out today that she has ME.


I had a mega dog for over 10 years and we were lucky enough to never have any issues BUT alot has to do with how much the puppy is afflicted. Many puppies barely have it and can grow up 100% normal. Others do not........

The earlier the puppy shows the problem, the worse it is. Puppies that are failing to thrive while still only nursing have the condition the most and have the poorest chance at a long normal life.

Those that only start regurgitating AFTER they start getting weaned, and are normal weight and vigor with the rest of the litter are the ones that tend to do the best. 

So really looking at the puppy to compare with the rest of the litter is, in my opinion, the best way to consider the future health of a puppy you may be considering. This can be a truly devastating condition in our dogs, but it can also be a condition that we can manage and have a healthy dog with a normal life span.


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLee
> 
> Many puppies barely have it and can grow up 100% normal. Others do not........


I completely agree with this.



> Quote:The earlier the puppy shows the problem, the worse it is. Puppies that are failing to thrive while still only nursing have the condition the most and have the poorest chance at a long normal life.


I am going to respectfully disagree with this though unless you have studies to back this up. As far as I can find there is nothing to support this theory. If anything puppies have a greater chance of improved nerve function as they age. Sure, it is possible that things only get worse or stay the same, but it is shown that they do have a much greater potential for improvement if managed properly (ie. NOT packing that esophagus so much that it continues to stretch). 

This whole disease and situation is a crap shoot. Before you take this puppy just ask yourself how much do you like to gamble?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I just saw this. That is rough. Poor puppy too. I think a lot of my reaction/decision would be based on what the breeder did in terms of best practices. If it is considered best practice not to use that breeding pair, or either of them ever again, or doing limited registration on that litter, or whatever, that would be what I'd be looking for first before I purchased any puppy from them. I do not know what best practice is in regards to congenital mega-e so that would be something I'd be looking into. Because my first concern is for the breed. 

Then I would assess my resources. Good vet, good vet college nearby? Able to afford emergencies? Basically what we all do anyway, but with the added knowledge that you may be using those things more than the average person expects to. 

Online resources and support would be big. I think you can put a check in that box! 

Time/ability to be flexible. 

Do I want a learning experience? Do I want to take on something that involves caring for another being-where there is no wrong, really, but that will bring with it the stress of caretaking? Can I do that for them? 

I realize these are things you've already asked yourself and there are no correct/incorrect answers which makes this so difficult. It is a difficult decision. I am glad you have such great help and I wish you and that little pup all the best.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:I am going to respectfully disagree with this though unless you have studies to back this up. As far as I can find there is nothing to support this theory.


I wrote based on what I was told by my vet who dealt with quite a few of these in GSD's in the Seeing Eye. In her experience, the puppies that were only nursing (less than 4 weeks old) that were regurgitating the milk were ALSO the ones that were already starting to fall behind the other puppies in size and vigor. When they were starting to get weaned, these same puppies would continue to fall behind and the issues with aspiration pneumonia would start to crop up.

On the other hand, those that showed NO sypmtoms while nursing. And only regurgitated rarely when starting on solid foods (older than 4 weeks) AND WERE THE SAME WEIGHT/VIGOR as their littermates..........these were the puppies that could not only grow up to be normal looking with no health problems, but also were barium tested after 1 year old and could be found to be NORMAL or barely have enlarged esophaguses (so maybe that's where the "If anything puppies have a greater chance of improved nerve function as they age." would come in.

There are some sites with more info:

http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00133.htm

http://www.videxgsd.co.uk/gastrointestinal.htm

http://www.caninemegaesophagus.org/Genetic_Predisposition.html

http://www.caninemegaesophagus.org/Megaesophagus_Fast_Track_FAQs.html


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> Do I want a learning experience? Do I want to take on something that involves caring for another being-where there is no wrong, really, but that will bring with it the stress of caretaking? Can I do that for them?


Excellent points. I would strongly consider really looking at all of the ways this can affect your life for the next 10-15 years, provided that this pup thrives. You may be taking on a dog that you can't board when you go on vacation, or if there's an emergency that calls you away from home. Not that I board my dogs at a kennel, but if you need to, it's hard not to have that as an option. 

If you need to move somewhere rural/remote, it may be difficult to find veterinary specialists. What happens if you can't take care of your dog? All of us dread thinking about what happens if we can't take care of our pets (due to loss of job/home, major illness, etc), but most of our animals could easily be rehomed. A mega-e dog (especially if she has severe mega-e) would be more difficult to rehome. Do you have family or friends as a back-up? 

Speaking of family, will yours be supportive of the time, effort and cost that this puppy will require? It's easy to say "I'll do anything for my dogs," but if a spouse, s/o, or parents aren't supportive (or are even resentful of the time and attention you give your dog), then that dog will cause you untold stress. Of course, some people are resentful of how much we love and invest in perfectly healthy dogs as well. But my GSD's health issues required effort (and my senior does now as well) and quite a bit of funds. If my husband weren't completely onboard with this, I can see where it would strain our marriage. 

Most of the questions I'm raising here are questions that I raise to people who are planning to get ANY puppy. But a special needs dog does bring with her more commitment by everyone involved. The fact that you said you "found my * perfect * baby girl" says a lot to me. 

I'll be honest with you. There are plenty of times in my life when I could and would take on a special needs pup, and there are also times when I would not be able to. It doesn't mean that at some times I'm a better person than I am at other times. It means that I'm realistic about assessing what I can do at certain times of my life. I hope that you decide what is ultimately best for you. It seems that the breeder will provide the puppy a good home. If you want THIS puppy and believe that she is still the "perfect" puppy for you even after you've done a lot of soul-searching, then that's your answer. But if you believe that so soon after the death of your heartdog, you're not ready to go this route, that really is ok too. Sometimes, we need to give ourselves permission to say "no," even when we feel we 'should' say "yes." 

I don't know what is the best answer for you. I do hope that you are able to come to the wisest answer for you and find peace in it.


----------



## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

My spouse and I have to take seperate vacations because of Maiya's condition, or we have to take dog friendly vacations. This has nothing to do with the severity of her disease as I know other owners with lesser affected dogs that have the same problem. You just can't find someone to watch them and if you can you often don't trust them.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomBut if you believe that so soon after the death of your heartdog, you're not ready to go this route, that really is ok too. Sometimes, we need to give ourselves permission to say "no," even when we feel we 'should' say "yes."


So true. I know that each time we've lost a beloved dog, whether it was Sneaker after a long happy life at 14-1/2 years old, or Cassidy & Dena at only 4 years old, the thought of taking on a puppy or dog with a potentially serious health issue, or even a senior with not that many years left, would have been unthinkable. I wanted at least the reasonable expectation that we would not be suffering that kind of gutwrenching heartache any time soon. You never know, as we unfortunately found out, but taking that kind of risk knowingly...I just wouldn't be able to do it. 

I know that if you do decide to get this puppy you'll have made that decision with your eyes wide open, with full consideration of all the difficulties you many encounter down the road, but it really is okay if you don't think you can handle it, especially right now.


----------



## Katerlena (May 30, 2008)

Hi Jennifer you have gotten some great advice know it must be a difficult to make a decision as it sounds like you have gotten attached to the little pup. It seems like it would be a challenging experience and big commitment and its good you are thinking it thru. The vacation part wouldn't bother me (we even try to time our day excursions so the animals are not left for too long...none of them would survive in a kennel for 1 hour







) or the feeding tube they are pretty easy to get used to - it would be more the chronic worrying although like Lisa points out nothing in life is certain. I do hope everything works out for the best and I am very sorry for the loss of your father also. Its probably also best right now that you are taking your time before making a decision that will have a major impact on your life.


----------



## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

ldpeterson said:


> Here's a pic of us during feeding time. This was awhile back when we were blending canned dog food, but we have since switched to home cooked and she is doing TONS better. Even gaining more weight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know this is an old thread, but curious how you kept her from drinking the water? I have a 6 month old ME pup.


----------



## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

go sign up here and ask the question, its a terrible format of a site but very good with the information you get. Its like someone still using 8 tracks for music

megaesophagus : Megaesophagus

you wont like the answer the vet who does that site and is great with Mega says. No swimming at all. You can make a post and you will get a ton of email reply's, good luck.


----------



## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

A small investment into a meat grinder (I believe mine was under 200 and grinds chicken bones no problem) could help the raw theory. And like another poster mentioned... raw can most definitely be affordable, especially when compared to a high quality kibble. 

I think it's wonderful you're doing your homework and considering giving this special pup a home!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

The early part of the thread is 3 yo - Jenna Mae is questioning the safety of a Mega-e dog in the water, where they can create a situation that could result in aspiration pneumonia. 

The mega-e site is really good.


----------



## vickip9 (Mar 28, 2012)

One of my best friends has been caring for a GSD with Mega-E for many years now. I will PM you her contact information so you can reach out for her for support/advice. She has been considering writing about her life with a Mega-E dog as everyone was telling her the dog wouldn't survive, but with the right diet and routine, the dog has lived to be 8 years old and is still going strong! It just takes a specific diet, and a precise routine of how you feed the dog and what you have to do immediately after. But it can be done!!!! Keep your chin up!


----------



## vickip9 (Mar 28, 2012)

JennaMae said:


> I know this is an old thread, but curious how you kept her from drinking the water? I have a 6 month old ME pup.



The person whose pictures you've posted is one of my best friends here in Kansas City. I don't believe she follows this forum anymore, so she likely won't see your posts. I will PM you her contact information if you have any questions.


----------



## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

kr16 said:


> go sign up here and ask the question, its a terrible format of a site but very good with the information you get. Its like someone still using 8 tracks for music
> 
> megaesophagus : Megaesophagus
> 
> you wont like the answer the vet who does that site and is great with Mega says. No swimming at all. You can make a post and you will get a ton of email reply's, good luck.


LOL! I am on this group and yes the format drives me nuts! There is a group on Facebook too.


----------



## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> The early part of the thread is 3 yo - Jenna Mae is questioning the safety of a Mega-e dog in the water, where they can create a situation that could result in aspiration pneumonia.
> 
> The mega-e site is really good.


yes, I am concerned about taking her to the beach with my other dogs who romp in the water and drink it. For my pup drinking water is a big no, no. She will regurgitate it back up pretty quick. I may have to keep her on a long training lead and teach her to not drink the water there. Maybe when she plays in the water I will pull on her lead if I see her attempting to drink and redirect her. Same thing when I put a baby pool in the yard in the summer. She can lick frozen ice okay and eat ice chips. She can also eat frosty paws. So I will have to offer her an alternative and bring a small cooler of ice or something in the summer.


----------



## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

vickip9 said:


> The person whose pictures you've posted is one of my best friends here in Kansas City. I don't believe she follows this forum anymore, so she likely won't see your posts. I will PM you her contact information if you have any questions.


Thanks! I received your PM and have her info, and will contact her. Sorry to revive an old thread. My pup Dutchess has a facebook page in which I am journaling her life. She is a foster pup for our rescue, but it is not likely someone will be adopting her any time soon. 

https://www.facebook.com/MegaEsophagus2


----------

