# Tara - Practicing Weaves



## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

I had some free time this afternoon, so I decided to take advantage of it and play agility with Miss Tara. I loaded up my 2x2s and a tunnel and drove to a nearby field and set them up. I wanted to work on getting some distance between us and the start of the poles so that she gets used to collecting when she's driving to them with speed. We started this by adding distance, then once that was looking ok, I added the tunnel. She has never done any other obstacles with the weaves before, so that was totally new and this was the first time she has done any weaving outside. All in all I think it went quite well! I still need to work on staying engaged with her while tugging and I definitely need to work on my toy throwing abilities. Some of these are just bad! One thing I'd like to work on is to get Tara to really drive through the poles to the end better. Her footwork is still a little sloppy, but I think she's still trying to figure that out as she's entering the weaves with more speed.

Any critiques are very welcomed!


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Loved how much faster she did even the second time she wove compared to the first. Really can see how she got the rhythm. Great entries too!

LOVE that you remember to practice with your dog on the left AND the right!!!  I've found my dogs usually have a favorite side to be on, so that means I know to train TWICE as much on their LEAST favorite side. 

Due to the fact I also am a horrible throw and seem to alway get it to go up more than out and away............... I've found that for weave training using a large louds squeaky ball (Cuz?). For some reason as soon as I use a round toy I can 'bowl' it out along the ground as the dog exits the weaves. And this really drives my girls out and away with all the joy and enthusiasm I want.

When she's going thru the tunnel, are you saying 'go weave' (or whatever your verbals are) from like the second she darts her head in the tunnel? I know something I've really been working on is trying to get my dogs to know the NEXT obstacle(s) as soon as I can so it gives them more of a heads up on the course.

I really enjoyed watching your video because it shows how the learning should progress, and how a good trainer (that's you  ) has to break it down and figure out how to make your dog succeed. Too many of us just watch our dogs doing it 'wrong' over and over and over (blaming the dog ) instead of rethinking the entire situation and working out how to get our dogs to do it right!


----------



## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

This is a rookie question. With Dottie we are not doing 2 X 2. Instead we are doing channel weave and I have noticed with channel weave the dogs drive through the poles with a lot more speed (well, because they are not technically "weaving"). Will it screw up the dog to alternate between 2 X 2 and channel type of weaving?


----------



## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks, MRL! I really appreciate the feedback. Using a Cuz is a great idea, I think that may really help me throw better and help her drive through the weaves harder. I am perpetually late with my verbal commands, it's something I really need to work on. I'll try doing that as she enters the tunnel next time.

Jason, our instructors actually really encourage the use of 2x2s and channels together. 2x2s are great for giving a really excellent understanding of weaving and entries, and the channels give you the speed and drive you want. I did only a little bit of channel work with Tara when she was first learning, and I've thought about going back to them to try and improve her speed and footwork.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Kristin, at 1:30 and about 1:45 she did awesome! Nice entries and she had a nice ryhthem and she looked like she had some speed there too!

Great job!

I too have heard that if you use the channel it can really help build up speed.

What we did was hold Stark back a bit, me go out past the first obstacle and then call to him a few times to get him really worked up then we had the person holding him release him. Seemed to help with our speed. Although I did have to work on his starts a bit because he would get so ampt up that he would break his sit, but that cleared up after a session or two.


----------



## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks, Elisabeth! 

I'm really quite happy with how they're coming along. I think she is still figuring out her footwork, so I'm excited to see how she does once she's a little more confident.


----------



## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

*Update on Tara's Weaving*

We did some weave practice today, when I had the opportunity to use my parents' fenced and relatively dry un-snow covered backyard! I should first mention that she usually finds it really tough to work here because she's SO EXCITED to be at "grandma" and "grandpa's" house, but I thought she did pretty well today. I used a Cuz as recommended and I think she liked it. :laugh: I did have to edit out her "victory laps" with her Cuz after each run (video would have been 5 times as long!), but otherwise it's all there. 

I don't think we've really done much since the last video I posted of weaves, so I think there's some latent learning going on because I thought her rhythm and collection has improved since our last video. I did learn that we need to work more on entries high on the clock on both sides, as you can tell she lacks confidence when she's entering from these tougher angles. I have a tendency to "help" her to succeed and while it's been good to step back and make it a little easier, it's something I am going to be working on NOT doing to get the entries more independent around the clock. Also, it seems I completely neglected working high on the arc with her on my left. And I grabbed her collar a few times to remove her from the weaves, which is a terrible habit of mine and almost certainly causing some conflict that is also hurting the entries on that right side. I'm doing the collar grabbing less than I used to, but something to work on. Definite room for improvement! 

You can't really tell from the video, but I also practiced a few rear crosses on both sides to make sure she didn't pop out when she saw me come around the other side and she did great!


----------



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I love two things about this video- at 2:28 she says to herself, "wait a min, this pole isn't supposed to be on this side. Opps, I think I messed up." Also- you use the best fill music- love the bluegrass!


----------



## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

:rofl: I didn't even notice that look she gives the pole at 2:28. That is totally her personality, though so I bet that is exactly what she was thinking!


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I think you are both doing great! Think the Cuz is helping though I also have huge issues with throwing too high so TRY to remember I should almost be 'bowling' with the Cuz as my girls exit. So really high speed rolling it out and away as they exit the last pole....

I think you did exactly the right thing when she was getting confused with her entry, breaking it down so she succeeds. WAY more fun for her to keep it fun and fast, then making it more challenging gradually. 

I think you may get rid of the collar grabbing easier if you also 'mark' the incorrect entry WAY earlier. I do a happy whoops with a hard body pull away from the poles as soon as Glory makes the wrong entry at the second pole. So its much faster to fix and get her back on the correct entry when she's still right at the first 2 poles....

Cause I know you need a new challenge...... instead of always having her go back to the 'start' to weave (like you always had her weave away from the camera) instead toss the Cuz like you are and when you get it back (after the Victory lap  ) send her back into the weaves from the side she just exited. This would mean in the video, you'd have mostly been on the far side of the poles (unless you rear crossed) the entire video, while she's have been weaving off your left or right depending on if you were going towards or away from the camera (confused?). 

Well done!!!!


----------



## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I think you are both doing great! Think the Cuz is helping though I also have huge issues with throwing too high so TRY to remember I should almost be 'bowling' with the Cuz as my girls exit. So really high speed rolling it out and away as they exit the last pole....
> 
> I think you did exactly the right thing when she was getting confused with her entry, breaking it down so she succeeds. WAY more fun for her to keep it fun and fast, then making it more challenging gradually.*
> *
> ...


Thanks! I see what your saying with "bowling" the Cuz. That should help keep her head down as she exits the poles. I didn't even realize how high I was throwing it till you pointed that out!

I'll definitely work on getting my NRM in quicker and to pull her out without grabbing the collar.  I still have trouble sometimes noticing fast enough when her entries are off.*

I think I know what you mean about going through the poles both ways. I've been afraid to do that because our instructor had warned us so much about not allowing her to "back weave." I can see how you would want them to understand that weaves are bidirectional, though. Is the back weaving just something to avoid during the early training stages so they don't think the behavior is always to weave one way then turn around and come the other way? I suppose her understanding of driving forward and out of the weaves has come along enough that this isn't a big concern any longer?

Thanks again!!


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Due to the wonderful fact of the Cuz/Victory Lap  you are getting more than enough break in the performance for this to appear to be anything like backweaving. Instead it should start getting a bit more independent weaving skills for your dog because eventually you will see you aren't having to move near as much and she'll be trying to get in and thru to GET THE TOY as soon as you get it back from her. With you just staying on the one side (except when practicing the rear crosses) you'll end up really just walking back and forth from like pole 2 to 5 (throw the toy out and away from there) or even just kind of 3-4 as they start getting the really wicked entries. But this will take some time so just keep up the good work like you are.

Since I want my dog to drive in, thru and OUT of the weaves (and that Cuz bowled out is a huge help) my dog should see that reward as a 'completion'. I also tend to use a clicker still to click the rounding the last pole/throw the Cuz so it also shows the 'well done then REWARD'.


----------



## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

Makes sense! Thanks!


----------



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

VERY NICE............... 

Ok, how have you tained to get the entry from weird angles? I have Susan G's 2x2 dvd, but so lost it with the training. 

They have the weaves down running straight, but not great at angles + my female does at times try to skip the first pole if I'm on the left side vs the right. If on right of weaves, seems this pulls her in & she gets the entry.

GREAT JOB !


----------



## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks!! I trained using Mary Ellen Barry's 2x2 method. She has diagrams in the article and step by step instructions that lay out how to train the different entries. I actually started very close to the weave poles due to limited space in my house and have only begun to really add distance (which you can tell is why we struggle with that wrap around from the far side in the video).


----------



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

TaraM1285 said:


> Thanks!! I trained using Mary Ellen Barry's 2x2 method. She has diagrams in the article and step by step instructions that lay out how to train the different entries. I actually started very close to the weave poles due to limited space in my house and have only begun to really add distance (which you can tell is why we struggle with that wrap around from the far side in the video).


 
Ok, never have heard of her.  Can you give any tips on how you trained? Clicker, etc? Would love to get our entry down way better.


----------



## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

The article (check my link in the last post) really explains it pretty clearly and better than I could. If you start there, and have questions about the method I could try to help out. I actually did not use a clicker to train the weaves, just a voice marker, which is recommended in the article. I believe the reason given in the article is that the dog tends to look back at you when you click and is less likely to do so with a voice marker. I think it probably would have worked just as well, if not better, with a clicker and good timing.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

TaraM1285 said:


> The article (check my link in the last post) really explains it pretty clearly and better than I could. If you start there, and have questions about the method I could try to help out. I actually did not use a clicker to train the weaves, just a voice marker, which is recommended in the article. I believe the reason given in the article is that the dog tends to look back at you when you click and is less likely to do so with a voice marker. I think it probably would have worked just as well, if not better, with a clicker and good timing.


 
-> click this http://www.kineticdog.com/Files/2 x 2 PDF.pdf <- that's the link with the explaination


----------



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> -> click this http://www.kineticdog.com/Files/2 x 2 PDF.pdf <- that's the link with the explaination


 
Ok, I did try to click treat when she was hitting her entry this wk, but seemed to mess her up.  As after a few click treats at first pole, she then wasn't sure about doing the rest. So, not sure I should go back & try to get entries 100% or not.

THANKS for the link MRL


----------



## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

Would it be helpful to see video? I might not be able to get to it right away this week, but I can probably take some decent video of Tara working through the beginning stages of entries since we'll be doing work at the really tough angles anyways.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

LuvourGSDs said:


> Ok, I did try to click treat when she was hitting her entry this wk, but seemed to mess her up.  As after a few click treats at first pole, she then wasn't sure about doing the rest. So, not sure I should go back & try to get entries 100% or not.
> 
> THANKS for the link MRL


You always bring up the best questions about stuff I may not have mentioned.... 

Interesting but when I JUST practice entries with the clicker, I also remove all but the 1st 3 poles on my weavepoles. So it is a bit like when you start training with the 2X2's only with 3 poles. But it prevents the confusion and us pulling the dogs out of the poles. 

:wub:


----------



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> You always bring up the best questions about stuff I may not have mentioned....
> 
> Interesting but when I JUST practice entries with the clicker, I also remove all but the 1st 3 poles on my weavepoles. So it is a bit like when you start training with the 2X2's only with 3 poles. But it prevents the confusion and us pulling the dogs out of the poles.
> 
> :wub:


 
LOL, Ok.............. duh, why didn't I do that ! Geez, yes hate pulling her out & she was like, WHAT ! :hammer:

Will I ever get all this sh** right ! 

Ok, so when are you gonna come local to a show? Would be nice to get pointers in person.................... :toasting:

Karen did help a bit. MANY shows local this yr !


----------

