# Filing teeth down?



## SouthernThistle

Is it common practice for an organization (say LE or other) to file a K-9's teeth "down to nubs" prior to placing it in a retirement home?

Two people on a Georgia forum of which I am a member say that they have retired K-9s whose "teeth were filed down to nubs."


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## Elaine

Absolutely not. Although, an older K9 might have WORN down or broken off teeth from bite work.


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## SunCzarina

Or from RMBs. I know someone who has a 10 or 11 year old working line male who likes to chew on rocks. His teeth are painful to look at.


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## SouthernThistle

Hm. I didn't think so either. I know a few years back that a neighbor of ours went through a rigorous qualification and adoption program for a retired K-9, and that dog's teeth were NOT filed (and had a bite as strong as a crocodile!)


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## samralf

Have you ever heard of the TV show Breed All About It? It's on Animal Planet. In case you haven't heard of it, it's a show that goes into detail about each breed. During the GSD episode they had a sheep farmer from Germany that said he filed his dogs' canine teeth so they don't rip the sheep when they bite them. Just the point not "down to the nub".


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## SouthernThistle

samralf, I rarely watch television so I don't watch "Breed All About It," but the dogs in question are definitely retired Police K-9s, and their teeth are definitely "down to the nub."

Funny enough, a very hard-hitting, high drive retired Police K-9 the one person has...is this person's first German Shepherd because he "always wanted one." THIS should be fun.


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## Ruthie

I would assume that it is natural. I looked into it because Bison's are wearing down. Vet says it isn't a concern. It is very common.

Here is a photo. B-dog is almost 4, so I imagine a dog that is retirement age would be more worn than his.









(Edit to add photo.)


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## ladylaw203

They were probably not filed down,just worn down. I have a mal with nubs and will eventually have to cap them


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## MaggieRoseLee

All 4 of Bretta's canines have the tips missing and no file has ever gone near her. She's only 5 and did it to herself!


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## SouthernThistle

I figured it was natural wear, but .... you can't argue, right? 

Initially this person said that he was getting a "SAR dog" and wanted to know where he needed to go to do searches. Well when a K-9 officer informed him of certifications and such, that topic was ended.

The person came on yesterday with the subject, "My German Sheperd has issues." (Yes, I spelled it that way because they did). Apparently he had left the 6 y/o GSD in his house when he went outside shooting, and the dog went ballistic. It tore apart his house, etc. So he brought the dog outside (*brilliant*). He said when he shot down at the target...the dog chased after the bullet and lunged at the target. When he had a friend hold him next to him when he shot, the dog was trying to bite at the gun and had to be told, "release" a time or two when he latched onto the gun (*nice*). The guy said the dog "really likes to work" and when he gets into the truck knows it's "time to work." He went onto explain other events before I asked, "wait...is this the "SAR" dog?"

He said, "yeah. I got the dog from a guy who said his dad owned the dog and trained it in Russian. The dad passed away, and the son's insurance company wouldn't let him keep the dog so he gave it to me because I've always wanted a German Shepherd. I went to the local Police Dept. who told me the dog was probably a SAR dog due to him liking everyone/being friendly to people because 'if it was a true police K-9, then the dog would be aggressive to everyone and everything.'"

Oh boy.


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## AbbyK9

> Quote: I went to the local Police Dept. who told me the dog was probably a SAR dog due to him liking everyone/being friendly to people because 'if it was a true police K-9, then the dog would be aggressive to everyone and everything.'"


The Police Department supposedly told him that?!


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## AbbyK9

> Quote:Absolutely not. Although, an older K9 might have WORN down or broken off teeth from bite work.


I don't want to take this thread off topic, but I am wondering how common it is for teeth to be worn down or broken from bite work? I have a 5 year old Malinois on whom I have very little history, but she has obviously been trained for bite work (and does wonderfully at it). 

Her canines are very worn down and most of her front teeth are damaged / worn down / broken. Our vet felt that we should leave them alone as they seem to cause no issues or anything, but I'm curious as to how common this would be and whether I should seek another vet's opinion as to what to do about the teeth?


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## ladylaw203

> Quote: When he had a friend hold him next to him when he shot, the dog was trying to bite at the gun and had to be told, "release" a time or two when he latched onto the gun (*nice*). The guy said the dog "really likes to work" and when he gets into the truck knows it's "time to work." He went onto explain other events before I asked, "wait...is this the "SAR" dog?"


Dog is a nerve bag and I doubt seriously the dog was trained for anything useful. The teeth are worn down because the dog probably chews a kennel, water bucket whatever because he is clearly unstable.
Stable well trained policr k9s do not show aggression indiscriminately. Some do because their handlers are clueless. I fail dogs at certification time that exhibit that kind of behavior


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## ladylaw203

Historian said:


> Quote:Absolutely not. Although, an older K9 might have WORN down or broken off teeth from bite work.
> 
> 
> 
> How is she in a kennel? I have a female Male with nubs because she has been allowed to knaw water buckets. Bitework should not do it. Knawing on items will
Click to expand...


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## AbbyK9

> Quote:How is she in a kennel? I have a female Male with nubs because she has been allowed to knaw water buckets. Bitework should not do it. Knawing on items will


She is very good in her crate. I have never seen or heard her chew on her kennel or put up any kind of a fuss about being kenneled, except when I get home from work and she's excited to get out and run around (she will circle and bark).


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## SouthernThistle

> Originally Posted By: Historian
> 
> 
> 
> Quote: I went to the local Police Dept. who told me the dog was probably a SAR dog due to him liking everyone/being friendly to people because 'if it was a true police K-9, then the dog would be aggressive to everyone and everything.'"
> 
> 
> 
> The Police Department supposedly told him that?!
Click to expand...

The local Police Department (not any one familiar with the dog or its background) told this guy that. 

I said, "absolutely NOT. That dog was NOT a SAR dog."


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## SouthernThistle

Here is the new owner's words, exactly....

Part 1. 

"I have a 6 year old German Shepherd that is a retired search & Rescue dog. I've seen dogs that are gun-shy, but my problem goes deeper than that...
I went out back the other day to do some shooting, and I left the ol' boy in the house. As soon as he heard the gunfire, he started freaking out and trying to get outside. Well, he was tearing the house apart (which isn't normal, he's a VERY obedient dog), so we brought him outside with us. Well, every gun-shy dog I've ever seen tries to get away from the gunfire. This one runs down range and attacks the target every time you shoot it. Then, when you make him stay close by, he wants to try to run up and nip at the gun every time you fire. Won't sit still, and stops listening to anything you tell him.

Anyone got any experience with anything like this?"


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## SouthernThistle

Part 2 after I questioned the dog's background, etc.:

"Unfortunately, what I am sure of is that I DON'T know all of his commands, and from what I'm being told by the pros, I may never know them all. We do know most of his basic commands, and have stumbled upon several as well. I have had to put a lot of work into getting him to understand some basic commands in english and with hand signals. He was originally trained with Russian commands, and the commands don't always necessarily mean what they actually say (ie: the word stand could mean to sit, etc).Yes, his teeth are also filed down, but he still has a very nasty bite, and acts like he doesn't even know they're filed down. Fortunately, even when gunfire is going on, if he does bite (and he has), he does obey the command to release, just doesn't seem to want to listen to anything else. I don't mind him charging down range if there actually is a threat, but him charging down range after every single shot puts a serious damper on range time. He does seem to purposely stay out of your line of fire while running down range (until he gets to the target), but for safety sake, once he takes off down range, I drop aim and safety. I won't fire until he's behind me again."


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## SouthernThistle

Part 3:

"His background actually is a little sketchy. The way I ended up with him was that his original owner died, then his nephew obtained the dog. He had to move sometime later and his homeowners insurance wouldn't allow hime to keep a shepherd, so he was given to me. The kid was clueless about the dog, didn't know ANY of his actual commands, and all he knew is that he had been used for some type of police work, had no papers, no nothing, and complained that since he didn't know the commands, that he had a lot of problems with the dog.
I was living in FL at the time, and the first thing I did was seek help from some very friendly and very helpful trainers with the local S.O. there. A couple of them actually took their off time to help me work with him, and they came to the conclusion that he had "mainly" been used for SAR. I was told that due to his calm, friendly demeanor, that there was very little chance that he was a drug dog because they are usually pretty aggressive. He does become aggressive when he needs to, but other than that he's friendly towards everybody. 
They helped me figure out all of the commands that we do know, but also said that the dogs can sometimes be trained with up to a 400 word vocabulary, and that without the original officer that was trained with the dog, that there would never be any chance of figuring out every command the dog was taught. So, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about him, and the more I learn, the better things get, but this one has me stumped."


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## SouthernThistle

So maybe someone on THIS forum will have some insight. Already a K-9 LEO stepped in and commented on the dog, etc. as well.


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## AbbyK9

> Quote: that there was very little chance that he was a drug dog because they are usually pretty aggressive


That is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while, and I doubt that a police officer told him this. We have some SSD's (Specialized Search Dogs) on base that do just detection work (no bite work) and they are VERY VERY VERY friendly. They're the dogs they bring to events that the public is allowed to pet.


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## DFrost

I can only speak from my own experience which includes; 23 years in the Military Working Dog Program and 22 years (and still counting) with my current law enforcement department. I've trained dogs for apprehension, drug, explosives, cadaver detection. I've trained dogs for land mines, booby traps and tripwires. I've never heard of filing down a dogs teeth for any reason. I've had dental work done on dogs because of broken teeth, but have never had them filed down.

DFrost


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## iamthehappygirl

*Mal Teeth*

I have a Belgian Malinois who is 18 months old. His lower K-9's look like they have been cut or filed down. I got him when he was 4 months old and the teeth were like this. I was reading these posts and see that it's common to do this with a retired dog but not a puppy. Anyone have an experience with this or know why this would be done? His bottom K-9's are nubs like one of the photos posted on this thread.
Thanks!


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## DFrost

probably from chewing rocks. I doubt they were filed.

DFrost


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## AbbyK9

> I was reading these posts and see that it's common to do this with a retired dog but not a puppy.


You may want to go back and re-read the posts, as everyone has said that it is NOT a common thing at all for dogs to have their teeth filed down upon retirement, but that you often see them worn down from chewing on things.


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## ladylaw203

iamthehappygirl said:


> I have a Belgian Malinois who is 18 months old. His lower K-9's look like they have been cut or filed down. I got him when he was 4 months old and the teeth were like this. I was reading these posts and see that it's common to do this with a retired dog but not a puppy. Anyone have an experience with this or know why this would be done? His bottom K-9's are nubs like one of the photos posted on this thread.
> Thanks!


 

It is NOT common to file down a dog's teeth. However, what occurs with some Mals is they are worn down to knubs as are the ones on one of my Mals. Darn dog knaws on everything. I will have to have dental work done on her.


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## RebelGSD

I have had my GSD since he was 8 weeks old and a file never went near him. His teeth are terribly worn at 10 yo, his canines are half the normal size and the incisors are worn to stubs. With him it was occasional furniture as a puppy, raw, meaty bones and maybe some chew toys that contributed to it. He did not do enough bite work to this much damage. I do belive that some dogs have softer teeth than others

As to the dog in the OP, I am just guessing that some Russian LE wannabe trained him this behavior with charging at the target. The dog is trying to do what someone taught him to do. Attack the target his owner shot at, pretty hilarious if it were not dangerous. One easy solution would be to keep the dog away from the shooting range.


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## Metalsmith

> I will have to have dental work done on her.


I'm curious about dental procedues for worn teeth. Are we talking caps that replicate the original size and shape of the canine? Can you still do bitework or play tug once the caps are installed?

The lower canines seem to be the most worn down on my dog. I think we are probably going to need some kind of dental work in the future for Khyber, but I would hate to lose the ability to play tug with him. It's such a great reward during obediance work!


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