# Breeder payment timing question



## Forever_Skye (Mar 4, 2014)

Hello forum,

I have just recently started my search for a GSD puppy. I am currently looking at a local breeder who has been well recommended on this forum and whose breeding dogs are fully health-certified. My question relates to the timing of payment. In the contract it specifies that $500 is to be paid up front to reserve a puppy and the remaining $1,500 to be paid at the age of six weeks. Then it specifies that no visits to the puppies will be allowed until after the age of six weeks (which I understand, as the threat of health risks can be quite serious at that age) and payment in full is received via a certified check. All money received by the breeder is non refundable, although there is a comprehensive one year health guarantee for complications due to genetic issues, with a replacement only policy. I should mention that visits to the kennel to see the adult dogs is permitted by appointment. So, in effect, I would be buying the puppy sight unseen (pictures posted to the kennel Facebook page excluded) and without recourse and trusting that I would be delivered what I paid for. Are these reasonable requests on the part of the breeder or is this practice unusual?


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

I can't say if these requests are reasonable or usual. However, I can say I would not be happy with them to the point that I may look around. 

We put a deposit down on our pup prior to his birth to make sure we got him reserved. We visited at about 5 weeks, Picked the pup up at 8 weeks and paid in full at that time. I'm going to say the deposit was non-refundable. 

So I suppose other than paid in full before services rendered we pretty much followed the other requirements by default. I think the breeder posted pics twice from birth to 8 weeks. 

I don't care for paying at 6 weeks. You have no options at that point. This would have turned me off. I'm not slamming the breeder, I just don't care for the payment schedule. I don't think I heard anything like this from any of the breeders I interviewed. I did see some interesting things in the contracts about breeding, showing, etc.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I paid a $500 deposit via etransfer when the litter was born, then brought the remaining $1000 in cash when I picked him up at 9 weeks. I did visit 3 times before taking him home so I felt very confident 

I don't think the breeder is being unreasonable but if it makes you uncomfortable then try talking to them about it. Maybe if you get an explaination on why they request it that way it will help shed light on the situation rather then have you nervous about it.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

so what if the breeder hasn't got a puppy that will fit into what you want? Do they transfer that money to another litter? Are you willing to do that? 

Do you trust this breeder enough to be able to pick the perfect puppy for you?

If not, then pass, if so, then proceed


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I've bought puppies "sight unseen" as in I didn't see the puppy until the day he came home, but I never paid ahead of time. I always reserve the right to change my mind when I see the puppy and get to meet the dam.


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

Forever_Skye said:


> Hello forum,
> 
> I have just recently started my search for a GSD puppy. I am currently looking at a local breeder who has been well recommended on this forum and whose breeding dogs are fully health-certified. My question relates to the timing of payment. In the contract it specifies that $500 is to be paid up front to reserve a puppy and the remaining $1,500 to be paid at the age of six weeks. Then it specifies that no visits to the puppies will be allowed until after the age of six weeks (which I understand, as the threat of health risks can be quite serious at that age) and payment in full is received via a certified check. All money received by the breeder is non refundable, although there is a comprehensive one year health guarantee for complications due to genetic issues, with a replacement only policy. I should mention that visits to the kennel to see the adult dogs is permitted by appointment. So, in effect, I would be buying the puppy sight unseen (pictures posted to the kennel Facebook page excluded) and without recourse and trusting that I would be delivered what I paid for. Are these reasonable requests on the part of the breeder or is this practice unusual?





Liesje said:


> I've bought puppies "sight unseen" as in I didn't see the puppy until the day he came home, but I never paid ahead of time. I always reserve the right to change my mind when I see the puppy and get to meet the dam.


OP,

Sounds like Stan.. I heard the same jingle exactly in California. Sorry, no contract, no payment, no pictures, no payment, no like the pup we move on... A 12 year agreement with no visitation rights..


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you have to know what you are looking for . have conversation with the breeder . trust the breeder . 

in this day and age ask for video of the dog being by itself , with the littermates, interacting with a person.

this kind of arrangement is not unusual buying a dog from Europe . 
sight unseen , too far and inconvenient to visit .

you go on the reputation of the breeder , the feel you get dealing with them .

money for dog and expenses sent before receiving the dog.

what is so special about this litter? $2,000 for what ?


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Many breeders do bot take despots until pregnancy is confirmed. 

No problem with not visiting before 6 weeks. No problem with appointments either, as perhaps the breeder also has a full time job and stays quite busy. 

I think the only thing I don't like is payment in full at 6 weeks. Money order, certified check or cash is fine, Many breeders have been burned by bounced personal checks or even stopped payments.

I would clarify that you can roll over to another litter if the litter does not produce a pup you want. I might also conform that your payment is refundable if there dis no pup suitable for you. 

Most breeders that have been burned once or twice take measures to protect themselves. They may look like ridiculous polices to us (and some are) but not to them. 

Some breeders do not offer contracts unless you ask for one. Mayhem is the only pup I have bought without a contract. Breeder just feels they are not worth the paper they are written on and she states she will deal with you in honest, Christian manner - and she does. As she is also a personal friend I have seen it. She also will draw up a contract if you want one.

Having other dogs purchased under contract and having health issues that I got nothing for, I can agrees somewhat with this. Mayhem is the first pup I have bought in a long time that has no problems either. I admit I was a little hesitant about no contract but I gave it a shot. I am happy.

So each breeder may be slightly different. 

Bottom line - do you like the breeder and the dogs? Are you comfortable with your choice? If not - move on.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I have a thing about paying the full price when I actually receive the product. Really don't think that's too much to ask in this day and age. We buy much larger items in this way...cars, houses, ect, and I don't believe that dogs should be any different.

If you've read some of the horror stories when breeders do get shifty or litters don't work out, its not always good. And for a breeder to hold on to $2000 for any period of time, without you knowing if and when you will receive a dog, IMO that just seems to be unnecessary. If the breeder is a good one, and is very reputable, they shouldn't worry about buyers backing out to the point that they're taking all that money that early. A 25% deposit is more than enough IMO for them to trust that the buyer won't back out at the last second. And even if the buyer does back out, I've never met a reputable breeder that didn't have a line of people behind that one waiting for a pup.


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## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

I paid a $500 deposit then paid the remaining balance in cash when I picked her up. I didn't meet her until the day I went to pick her up.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I bought my puppy sight unseen. Sent my deposit in and waited. I didn't even know which one was mine until I went to pick him up. Paid remainder in cash when I picked him up.

I don't really see anything unreasonable in the breeders requirements. It seems pretty standard. Talk to the breeder. If you feel uncomfortable, go elsewhere.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I made payments to Djibouti's breeder. He was pd in full before he was even conceived. I preferred some breedings to others & didn't mind waiting. I'd always found his breeder to be forthright, honest & trustworthy so I didn't mind that she 'had' my money on hold. That choice was actually mine. Beyond the deposit, I really wanted to get my pup pd for just to quit worrying about it. Patience pd off. Djibouti is just a perfect guy & I'm glad that I waited.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

It might just be me, but if I feel that I can't trust the breeder with my money, then I don't feel that I can trust her to produce the dog that I'm looking for. Despite considerable research I was still trusting her a great deal regarding the history, health & temperament of her dogs. I'm not being dramatic when I say I'd rather someone just took my money than stick me with one of the nightmare GSDs some breeders produce. Oh, I'd be crazeee mad if a breeder robbed me, but some of the really bad GSDs that are bred are just heartbreaking. I'll take mad any day.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

OP, maybe the breeder just wants to make certain that the puppies all leave at 8 weeks. If a deposit is a reserve, then paid in full is a guaranteed sale. Any puppies not paid in full at 6 weeks would give the breeder 2 weeks to go through the list of waiting customers. That's my take on the situation, anyhow. If you like the breeding, then go for it.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Don't know quite what I would do given this situation. 

I've only dealt with two breeders -- first one through the want adds 100-200 miles away from where I was living. Obviously I didn't know what I was doing. Went down, met the pup, paid for her, took her home. The guarantee was worthless but the dog was terrific.

Second breeder I knew from long ago obedience training. Can't remember if I sent a deposit or not - don't think so. Drove out on vacation (1000 miles) met the puppy, paid up and took her home. Guarantee was fine but not needed - she had outstanding hips. Next dog from this breeder, 10% deposit - which wasn't much at all. Love the dog, great focus - only incidentally xrayed at 4 yo which showed a problem -- was offered a replacement pup although the guarantee was for xrays at 2.5 years. Sterling guy (probably gold but the expression is sterling) - I'd trust him with my retirement account!

So the quality of the guarantee is like anything else; Who's behind it?


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Both my puppies were purchased with only seeing pictures. Drives were too far to view regularly (6 hours and 15 hours). But I paid at the time of pickup, not six weeks. 


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

I paid a $500 deposit before my puppy was conceived, then went to visit the puppies 2 or 3 times after he was born. Then I paid the balance on the pup the day I got him. I didn't know for sure that day which puppy I would get. But I would have trusted my breeder with paying a few weeks before if that was her policy. 

When you go at 6 weeks to pay then will you know that day which puppy will be yours?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I paid a 500$ deposit on my recent pup, with remaining balance due at 7 weeks. If there was not a pup that suited my needs, the money would be transferred to a different litter. I was fine with that. 


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

stmcfred said:


> I paid a $500 deposit then paid the remaining balance in cash when I picked her up. I didn't meet her until the day I went to pick her up.


Same here. The breeder sent updates and pictures. We were too far away to visit.


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## Forever_Skye (Mar 4, 2014)

Wow. Thank you for all of your detailed responses! I didn't expect to get so many. It seems that all of this advice boils down to "Do you trust the breeder?" I called her today and we talked at length about her breeding dogs and her history. It seems as though she has this policy to ensure payment and that the pups are all accounted for when 8 weeks comes and it time for them to go home. I plan to inquire into the offerings of two other breeders and will make my decision after that point. I must say though that the breeding pair are beautiful. I'm excited for what lies ahead!


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

I would be careful with the "replacement only" Claus. If something ends up being wrong with the pup, you will have to pay to get the pup diagnosed and then either have it sent back to the breeder who may or may not keep it, who might find someone to give it a home, or you may have to euthanize and pay that cost as we'll. also costs to return to kennel. Then you have to wait who knows how long for another pup.
Just something to think about. 
Things can happen.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

As a breeder, I don't like it. I understand the deposit. People kind of expect that. But, I don't like the idea that you cannot back out after six weeks. 

Yes, it is a pain in the backside to have someone not show at eight weeks and then you either have to find someone you already told the puppies were sold to, or find a new buyer for the pup. But, if someone decides at week eight that the puppy is just not the right one for them, then the buyer ought to be able to back out. Because the pup may not be going to the right situation. 

I don't want ANYONE feeling like the HAVE to take the puppy. That's crazy. That can start a puppy off on the wrong footing. 

I was making my final selection on Rushie, about eight years ago. And there were two males, quite similar, one had his ears up, the other didn't and they seemed about the same otherwise, and I was just starting to point with the guy with his ears up, when he went and kind of hid under the table. In mid-point, I switched to the other puppy. 

Rushie was awesome. I had him in a bajillion classes, and in his puppy class, I saw this pup that looked just like him. Chandler was his name. I got next to him in the line waiting our turn, and asked him where he got his pup, and it was Rushie's brother. The pup was very fearful. He said his neighbor got a sister and she is the same way. 

Well, changing my mind at the last minute did work for me. But, had that dog been the only dog there, wouldn't it be best to go home empty handed? 

As a breeder, you want your dogs to go to homes that want them. Not homes that will take them regardless because they are paid for, and otherwise you will lose the money. 

There is another thing, too. Not sure what area you are in, but some places, by law, give you a number of days, 3-14 days to make a decision on whether or not you are going to keep the dog you purchased, or get your money back. If you paid the money at week six, that time frame might be totally gone by the time you pick up your puppy. So if you take the pup to the vet and it has a heart murmur, then ok, read your health guaranty. Maybe it will go away, but if you decide to return the puppy, what are they willing to do? Refund your cash? Or, replace the puppy. 

Why should you have your cash tied up at the breeder's establishment until they are able to produce another puppy for you? 

I don't like it. 

If you trust the breeder do what you want to do. But I don't think I would like to do it that way.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Selzer, you make some very good & thought provoking points.


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## Mala (Feb 12, 2014)

I personally am ok with it as long as you trust the breeder and if he/she is reputable. Reputable breeders would not put their name on the line if they did not stand behind what they produce. I know I wouldn't. I would ask for the same deposit and payment in full at 6-7 weeks. If shipping takes place, that would make sense because it takes time to cash/verify the check. Also, the breeder may have a busy life so having everything in place beforehand and knowing that each pup has a home is good. A written contract is a must for me so that it protects both parties. I agree that pups shouldn't be forced to be taken home if buyer backs out because that's just not fair for both parties. As for the $ being refundable, keeping the deposit is understanding but I wouldn't keep the rest of the amount. The deposit takes care of the time finding a new home for the pup. If you are uncomfortable with paying the full amount before meeting the pup, let the breeder know. Maybe he/she will work something out with you. It could be a standard procedure he/she takes with everyone just to be fair. I personally paid in full at 6 weeks never meeting the pup and I'm fine with it. 


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> All money received by the breeder is non refundable, although there is a comprehensive one year health guarantee for complications due to genetic issues, with a replacement only policy.


Mala, payment in full is due by 6 wks & is non-refundable.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The biggest problem is the amount of funds you'll end up having tied up with someone else. Sorry...but $2000 is a big chunk of change, and if the breeder takes another year to produce a pup for you, that's a long time to not have the ability to have $2000. What if something happens to your home and you need that money to fix it?

We've had SO many breeder horror stories due to contracts that don't allow for refunds...that I just can't suggest to anyone to risk it. It's quite difficult for a regular person to get back all their money from another person when it comes to bill of sale contracts, it takes time, and ultimately its unlikely you'll be made whole after other costs and things come into play.

Sorry...no matter how much I trust someone to breed dogs, once money is involved things happen. I didn't sign my mortgage lien until I was getting the keys to the house and I didn't pay for my car until the keys were in my hand...no reason to do pay anyone for anything until you have the product (unless of course shipping is involved).


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## nktigger99 (Aug 22, 2006)

We paid for our pup in full around 4ish weeks....BUT it was our choice.....and if we were to change our mind we would get the majority back. The breeder happens to be someone my husband has known all his life. She contacted us saying she thought she had a puppy that would work for our family...she knew we have wanted a GSD, she also knew what we have been through this past year with the tornado and dealing with the aftermath of home damage and 4 kids dealing with the trauma. We pick our pup up on the 15th. 

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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

nktigger99 said:


> The breeder happens to be someone my husband has known all his life. ...


This is so completely different from the OP's situation, I don't even know the purpose of this post.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

alexg said:


> This is so completely different from the OP's situation, I don't even know the purpose of this post.



And how is this post relevant to the OP's situation? The purpose is??? To berate someone else?

It's an open forum. nktigger should be able share her experience without harassment as well as anyone else. It is relevant as it is a trust issue between breeder and buyer.


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## CelticGlory (Jan 19, 2006)

I have seen this before, it was explained on another breeder's website that for the puppies that have to be flown out of state, it gives the breeder time to set up the flight details before the puppies are 8 weeks old.

Did you ask this breeder if you could transfer your money to another litter? The only thing I don't like is the 1 year only guarantee, more than the replacement only clause. OFA prelims is at 12 months, most contracts like this; the breeder wants the x-rays or dog to be examined by their own vet before replacement! What if they drag that on until the contract is up? Would they say that you are out of luck? What if you do prelims just two weeks before the contract is over? Would you still be out of luck for a replacement? Who pays for the flight so the puppy can go back to breeder? You? The breeder?

Another thing I would question the breeder about, how often does she breed? 1-3 litters per year or when she wants to breed to add to her breeding program? If that is the case, can you wait that long for a new puppy to be born?


Don't get me wrong, I don't know this breeder; however, this is something I have questioned when reading these types of contracts before. I would also ask how many puppies have had to be replaced before and see what she tells you. That would be my biggest concern, if it is too often I would pass. If almost never depending on how long she has been breeding, I would look more into her breeding program. See if you can find previous owners of her puppies to see their experience. Even put the name into google to see if anything comes up!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I don't ask for deposits until the litter is a sure thing....and usually don't even cash them until the litter is born and I can make a rough count on sex/color ....I prefer the pup is paid for prior to leaving...papers stay here until all is 100%

Nothing unusual about these terms...with scams etc, it is good business to make sure checks are good....I know a few people who sold dogs and never got paid...

Lee


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

But it sounds like she is requiring certified checks only. That takes the question out of it somewhat. I mean a personal check, and they have the puppy, and well, some buyers might stop payment or pay with a fraudulent check, or have insufficient funds. Every breeder will get burned sooner or later. I have found though that the majority of people are trustworthy, and even those that have made payments on the pup, all have paid them off, even though I would have a terrible time collecting on the debt if they chose not to. 

Sometimes you have to trust people. You can ask for cash only, or you can hold papers until the check clears, but, the AKC says papers go with the dog. So, really, if the people complain to the AKC that they did not get their papers, and they contact you, and you tell them they did not pay for the dog in full, the AKC will frown on that. 

If you are accepting cash or certified check only, than, people should be able to pay on the day they pick the pup up. If the dog needs to be shipped, then I can understand wanting all of that in advance so shipping arrangements can be set up.


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## nicky (Jan 12, 2014)

Man, I wish I would of found this forum and this thread before I got my pup 

OP, keep researching and do what your gut tells you to do


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

when i am ready to add another gsd, i will just post what i am looking for in a pup and wait for some respected breeders on the forum to guide me to the correct breeders.


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