# Male and new 1 year female not getting along



## Niteknitter (Mar 6, 2017)

I am new to the forum, but looking for a lifeline here. I have had 4 GSD's, two at a time. We now have a 9 1/2 yr old male, and 4 weeks ago brought in a 12 month female. While they played for over an hour at the breeder, largo (my male) is still not accepting her. She seems pretty submissive, but went into heat a week after bringing her home. He is still barking at her in the crate although not constantly, and we couldn't possibly leave them out together unless leashed and separated after a walk. They walk well together but that's it. They had one fight with her jumping on him while he was being leashed to go for a walk. She grabbed him by the scruff and would not let loose. She knocked down two gates to get to him. I don't know how much being in heat played into this. He is a neutered male. I've always brought in a puppy and didn't have a problem. So I am at a loss on how to handle this. We have really become attached to her and she is a sweet dog so it would be very hard to give her up. The female that Largo grew up with was the alpha, and he is not a very confident dog.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Not sure if you're asking about how to get the two of them to get along or problems getting her to leave her crate which is what your thread name suggests.


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## Niteknitter (Mar 6, 2017)

Deb said:


> Not sure if you're asking about how to get the two of them to get along or problems getting her to leave her crate which is what your thread name suggests.


Sorry, I will try to change the title. Yes, I can't get them to get along, so she spends too much time in the crate.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Can you ask the breeder for advice?

I wouldn't let a dog bark at another dog in a crate, period. Never, that would get shut down immediately


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## Niteknitter (Mar 6, 2017)

The breeder seemed to want to help in the beginning, but now it seems he wants her back. I know she was a favorite of his and I'm wondering if his call after several weeks was motivated by that. I do stop the barking as soon as I can get there.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I would have the girl crated in a room where the other dog can not bother her. Even if you scold the male, he is still being allowed to harass the female causing her frustration. She needs time. 

What would you like the thread subject to be? I can change it for you. ADMIN


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Dogs can get amped when they are going outside. Now that you know she goes after him, put his leash on in a different room. It sounds like he is pushy toward her and she had enough and went after him. Being in heat could affect her behavior. Keep them apart until her heat is over, then try again. He needs to stop barking at her. If they can't get along you might want to return her and get a different dog or a younger puppy.

Is he good with any other dogs? He might not ever accept another dog in the home.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Can you ask the breeder for advice?
> 
> I wouldn't let a dog bark at another dog in a crate, period. Never, that would get shut down immediately


Whats your method for correcting a dog behind a crate?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Both need a lot of exercise and training separately. I would do this for a full month so you make sure the heat is completely over. itches in heat can be bitchy, especially at a time when they are not receptive to males yet, but still spreading the scent. 
Then you introduce them as if they had never met before. One in the crate, the other on leash inside with you at a comfortable distance. Reward good behavior in each others presence.
Deja breeder said once, "Yes, they like to be the number one". She seems the happiest as an only dog, so that will be it for us. Maybe it is best to return her to the breeder and make everyone happy: your dog, the female, the breeder and you.
I am actually surprised why the breeder adopted her out while she was close to her heat.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

At 12 months old, your dog probably doesn't really see the newcomer as a 'puppy'. I would keep a leash on the female for now until she understands the rules of the house. Don't give her the opportunity to harass your male. That's not fair to him, and don't let him agitate her. I would tell him to hush it and remove him if he barks at her.


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## Niteknitter (Mar 6, 2017)

Please rename it appropriately to get better responses. You are better at this than I am. Hoping to get some good advice to make this work. Thank you!


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## Niteknitter (Mar 6, 2017)

He was with another female Inga, for his whole life, and we lost her a week before we brought Frieda home. This was our mistake...too soon, but we were all so heartbroken losing our Inga. So he was used to being with another dog. She was alpha, and he was comfortable in that role. I really want this to work as we have become so attached to her already. He is not as reactive to her in the crate, I just feel bad that she has to spend so much time in there. They do walk well together, and we can bring them in after and leave them on leashes in same room.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Julian G said:


> Whats your method for correcting a dog behind a crate?


I took this to mean that the male dog outside the crate was barking at the female dog inside the crate. That would happen in my house once, and never again, by whatever means necessary such as:

crating her behind a closed door
keeping the male on a leash or a long line
I'd be correcting him for giving her stink eye from across the room while she was crated, that's just unfair behavior to harass a cornered dog

she might be instigating from inside the crate somehow, and if she is, then crated behind closed door

OP said they do go put at stop to it but that means the dogs have the freedom to get it started, so if it were me, whatever freedom they have that allows that to start would be taken away by above methods or maybe something i haven't thought of yet.

I get dogs in for boarding who act like this sometimes...sometimes I can deal with it by leashing when we go past other kennels, sometimes I just go the long way around and they never see another dog if they are nasty enough or depending on the mindset of them and the other dog


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I took this to mean that the male dog outside the crate was barking at the female dog inside the crate. That would happen in my house once, and never again, by whatever means necessary such as:
> 
> crating her behind a closed door
> keeping the male on a leash or a long line
> ...


When my dog is crated, he barks at the cat who is free to walk around wherever she pleases.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

@Julian the simplest solution is still to crate the dog in a room where the door can be closed (close cat out) Cat can have free run of every other part of the house.

Otherwise you have to train the crated dog to stop barking...and the solution to that would vary pretty widely based on your dog's age, temperament, previous training, why is he barking ect. Does he chase/bark at the cat when he is out? If so correcting that is easier and a good start. Then crate him behind a door until you have the behavior fixed when he is out, then start a gradual reintroduction to the cat walking by while he is crated, rewarding hugely for tolerance.

But that might be totally the wrong approach for your dog...since I don't know the answers to any of the above questions or questions like what have you already tried, is the cat innocent or antagonizing the dog.

There are more aversive ways to deal with stuff like that but I don't really feel comfortable starting to rattle those off not knowing any more about your situation or skill level.

I did fix one dog who was kennel aggressive to me by playing modified crate games but with his kennel. I conditioned him to turn his face away from the front of the kennel for a food reward, he was super food motivated so I could get him to offer that behavior for food when I was in front of his kennel, and after enough time, my standing in front or passing by his kennel became part of the game instead of a trigger for his explosion

Some dogs I have if I just give a stern "hey" they will quit whatever nonsense they are up to..

Don't know if any of that helps you...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Return the dog to the Breeder, Crate and Rotate or incorporate better management practices. Those are all viable options. At the heart of this issue is an owner's lack of understanding as to what is going on here?? It gets further compounded by there failure to "make adjustments" in how they live with there dogs and that gets compounded by the because ... "my other dogs ... were not like this, thing????" 

These "issues" usually happen indoors and it "usually" happens to owners that are used to having a "Free Roaming Dog" indoors policy. You can't control a dog if you don't know where they are??? Indoors the dogs with issues should be in "Crate or in Place" you can't control a dog indoors if you don't know where they are???

You said ... *"They had one fight with her jumping on him while he was being leashed to go for a walk."* Yep .... that's how it happens, unintentionally of course ... the instigator was "allowed the opportunity" to make that choice (attack). So now ... your "reacting to a situation?" That is how people get hurt and as I am want to say ..."Been there done that .. got the stitches."

The fact that dogs get along well when out and about is not unusual. Lots of space and that is not where the "issues" are usually seen??? It's the "indoor" stuff where problems usually show themselves.

Yet another area that multi dog owners that find themselves faced with a new dog that just does not want to "Play Well With Others" is caused by a lack of bonding with there new owners. 

I discovered that one by accident ... typically if the new dog is one of several (one of three for me) we all load up in the car and go somewhere and play. When we went for walks well ... "Rocky " my OS Wl GSD" (problem dog.) Not much point in walking one on one with him alone ... when I can just as easily ... walk all three dogs at once??? Yeah ... that proved to be a mistake??? Walks one on one with "problem dog" are important! That is how you bond ... once you have a bond with the "problem dog" then you may enter the realm where ... a "Knock it off dog" from you" will mean something??? 

Short of that ... not so much??? Fours weeks seems like a reasonable amount of time ... but maybe not??? Some dogs don't care that you just happen to have possession of them?? Dogs respect leaders and with some dogs ... that respect needs to be earned??? I discover that by ... accident with my first "OS Wl GSD" ... the rest of that story is here.:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/4881481-post1.html 

So that ...is the where and how of my reply. Moving on ... you did the first part correctly one male one female ... that should work?? But clearly it is not but now you know. Plan A ... does not appear to be working out too well ... so maybe. perhaps, possibly ... it's time for Plan B??? 

Start over with this dog ... and I would suggest ... you start with the first link here ... "I Just Got a Rescue ...."
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

Doing that in my "opinion" would be a good first step in the right direction. Then there is the whole "No Free Roaming, Train the Place Command, Sit on the Dog, walk your dog thing ... blab blab blab. I can on ... but not much point if you decide that ... I did not sign on for this crap??? All I wanted to do was add another dog and get on with life ...not become a freaking "Dog Trainer???" That is also a "legitimate choice" but sometimes, some of us ... don't get the dog we want but we get the dog we need??? I was "forced" to work with "the dog in front of me" to get where I am now, so despite the stitches ... I have no regrets for my choice. 

But ... I don't know if you are willing to do the same??? Welocme aboard in any case ... sorry it's a bumpy ride so far.


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## Niteknitter (Mar 6, 2017)

Thanks for your long response. While the new female was the instigator of the fight, I don't see her as the problem dog, and yes there were stitches! Largo (9 yr old male) is the one that isn't accepting her. He is very attached to me, so I've been letting my husband interact with her more. The fact that she was in heat I think played into her sudden change in personality. She has been a great dog which is why we became so attached. While she has a very sweet loving personality she can take care of herself if provoked, and Largo has been provoking. She is learning basic commands from me, and is also signed up for a group class. She is my 5th GSD from strong German bloodlines(4 Preiser dogs for those in Illinois) so while I'm no expert, I have some experience. The new one is a DDR/Czech female, but I believe atypical in personality. Time will tell.

My main concern is her having to spend so much time crated, and if there is anything I can do to make this happen sooner. I do see improvement, he is getting much better at walking past her crate without reacting. Just wondering how much time acceptance can/should take since I never experienced this when bringing in a new puppy. I appreciate any advice!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Holy cow the young female gave your old dog stitches? She came through two baby gates to give your dog stitches? Forget about it, I'd take her back to the breeder. The breeder wants her back anyway, right? 

With that level of damage possible if something goes wrong, I would feel it isn't fair to my old dog to have to share his home like this. I'd say to myself...ya know, the timing wasn't great, the management wasn't great, and these two dogs don't have great chemistry together, lesson learned

I was imagining a spit fight or something


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Bring the dog back to the breeder. Your old dog will be just as happy with just you.


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## Niteknitter (Mar 6, 2017)

No sorry I wasn't clear, my son got the stitches trying to break things up. There was no dog blood involved. I'm not planning on returning her, at least not until I do everything I can. She is a very sweet dog. My description of her was my golden retriever German Shepherd. I see progress, which was interrupted by the fight. So we take a few steps back, she is out of heat, much calmer, and keep going forward.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Niteknitter said:


> Thanks for your long response. While the new female was the instigator of the fight, I don't see her as the problem dog, and yes there were stitches! Largo (9 yr old male) is the one that isn't accepting her. He is very attached to me, so I've been letting my husband interact with her more. The fact that she was in heat I think played into her sudden change in personality. She has been a great dog which is why we became so attached. While she has a very sweet loving personality she can take care of herself if provoked, and Largo has been provoking. She is learning basic commands from me, and is also signed up for a group class. She is my 5th GSD from strong German bloodlines(4 Preiser dogs for those in Illinois) so while I'm no expert, I have some experience. The new one is a DDR/Czech female, but I believe atypical in personality. Time will tell.
> 
> My main concern is her having to spend so much time crated, and if there is anything I can do to make this happen sooner. I do see improvement, he is getting much better at walking past her crate without reacting. Just wondering how much time acceptance can/should take since I never experienced this when bringing in a new puppy. I appreciate any advice!


Hm OK ...sorry I did not know about your son getting stitches??? That was just something I always say. 

And I am not discounting your prior experiance ... just trying to help explain what is going on as best I can. Prior experiance only means you can train dogs. I had ten years of "bully experiance" before I got my first WL GSD ... (7 month old foster.) But that experiance did not mean crap ... "Rocky" was clever ... he laid low for about 6 months ... there were no "issues" that I saw??? And then one day at a full 116 lbs "Out of the Blue???" Rocky decided that it was time for a regime change in Pack Order??? And it was "Game On" and I got schooled ... worked out well in the long run. 

But your dog current dog has flipped the script as it were??? If you want to make this work ... you have to accept the fact that they may never be friends. But that does mean they can not be taught to coexist.

The long story for the "No Free Roaming thing is here.:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8006017-post7.html

It's all about management ... but ... the current dog ... seems to have a problem with the new dog??? And it's up to you to establish "new rules" for him. If he has furniture or bed privileges ... they need to go, if he follows you around the house ... that needs to stop. Keep a "Drag leash" on both dogs indoors (explained in my link) and if he is barking at the other dog ... that crap needs to stop! You need to correct him and that is what the drag leash is for ... but that should not be necessary becasue he should not be free ... to walk past her "Crate" save for "proofing!"

If you want to get her out of the "Crate" more ... then you need to "Train Place" with both dogs. Once they both are trained and fully understand the "Place Command" ... your life will be easier. You can correct them for breaking "Place" the other dog ... won't matter. And I have found it necessary to say ... that a properly trained "Place Command" is two hours ... details are in that link. 

And there is the following, another member brought Larry Krohn to my attention ... it's not at all a how to guide but he does explain what he did when he was faced with dogs with issues in his home. I was intrigued.:
Aggressive Dogs


In any case getting this right is all about proper management.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

My dog is a gripper too, I think part of it is fear based, he doesn't know how to protect himself other than gripping onto neck hide, while other dogs would either run or bite back.

I STRONGLY suggest getting a parting stick, this is where I got mine: Stillwater Kennel Supply -- The Best Pit Bull Collars

Generally used on gripping breeds because they cannot be pulled apart as easily, I got one because my dog is a gripper. I've used it once so far and it worked great.

As for the aggression, I usually expect one scuffle between dogs when they are new to living together. Third day with my Great Pyrenees she launched at my GSD over some food she wasn't supposed to even have, he put her on the ground, she launched again and he put her on the ground again. I got in there and pushed them away from each other and they were best buddies ever since. He has never let a dog take one of his toys or drink our of the water bowl at the same time, but he lets her.

Just remember, dogs are not people, while a physical fight between humans would be devastating to their relationship, dogs do not see it this way. The fight between my dogs meant little to them once it was over. It's important after a fight that you not coddle either of them or get stressed because that feeds into it and can cause another fight. If you're calm and assertive and can get both of them to focus on you instead of each other they likely will be fine being reintroduced to each other right away. It might be hard but don't give either of them affection around each other for a month or two, no toys, no treats, no bones, don't give them anything to be jealous or protective over. They need to learn to trust each other and feel like a 'pack' (family). 

You should try to find a reputable trainer in your area that is not an all positive trainer. With larger dogs, even small dogs sometimes, prong collars can be very useful, you should probably learn to use one and a trainer can tell you how to properly use one on your specific dog(s).

Just my two cents.


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## Niteknitter (Mar 6, 2017)

Thanks for your thoughts. You gave me some very useful links! I so appreciate the kindness of people here!


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## Niteknitter (Mar 6, 2017)

Sadly, we returned Frieda to the breeder last Thursday. After 3 months and two different trainers that came to the house, we tried everything, but both dogs were regressing rather than improving. In the end, Frieda had become aggressive towards strangers and other dogs, and Largo was just not the dog we had for almost 10 years. The trainer told us we were hurting both dogs by keeping them together any longer. This is the hardest decision I have ever had to make, but I had to put the dogs' well-being before mine. I appreciate all the responses and suggestions that you offered. 

The breeder, Jeffrey Miller in Mundelein, is not someone I can recommend. I have seen some posts on this board inquiring about him, so I felt compelled to respond. He was dishonest several times and we never received her pedigree that we paid for. I don't know how other breeders handle returns, but he refused to give us any of our money back even though he had offered previously. In addition, he snipped the skin behind her ear before we picked her up which became infected resulting in surgery to close the wound, and he would only reimburse us for half.

In the end, my hope is that he is good to her and that she finds a good home. :crying:


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I'm sorry things didn't work out with Frieda. It was hard, but you did the right thing. Enjoy Largo. I'm sure he is much happier.


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