# Breeders thoughts on pedigree



## Wonks20 (May 15, 2021)

I will be first time dog owner. Looking for working line.

Any thoughts on this pedigree






Yago Real K-9


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Yago Real K-9




www.pedigreedatabase.com










Evie Rilyn


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Evie Rilyn




www.pedigreedatabase.com


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

That is a far cry from the East German dogs you wanted before. What is it your looking to do with the dog? It’s rare that I say it, but I wouldn’t choose this as a first time dog owner litter unless you have someone very good to work with. Drive and aggression.


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## Wonks20 (May 15, 2021)

So what kind of working line is this GSD?
I’m aware of the drive and aggression. I’m looking for a family guard dog.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

West German working line’s mostly. Just understand the type of dog you’re getting. If you don’t plan to be pretty active with it, you will be in for a lot of headaches.


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## Wonks20 (May 15, 2021)

Can you define active? I work 8hour shifts 3 times a day. I’m also an independent contractor I work on my own schedule certain days. I think I’m capable of being with the dog most of the time throughout the day.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I assume you mean 3 times a week, not day. You can be a working adult. I think it’s very rare the dog you can’t. It’s more about what you do with the rest of your time. This is the type of dog that will require lots of mental and physical stimulation. At some point you will probably also need to work on settling. There are threads here that talk about daily routines with dogs.


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## Scottie B (Dec 4, 2020)

Wonks20 said:


> Can you define active? I work 8hour shifts 3 times a day. I’m also an independent contractor I work on my own schedule certain days. I think I’m capable of being with the dog most of the time throughout the day.


Being with the dog multiple hours of the days is not the same as providing the mental and physical stimulation the dog may require. Honestly, it depends on the puppy. The pedigrees indicate a high likely hood of a very driven dog. Active means physical and mental exertion, which only means conditioning the dog to be more physically and mentally capable. You're only building up their threshold to when they will quit. Walk a 4moth old puppy 1 mile to get her to relax, when she is 6 months old you need to walk her 3 miles to get the same result. Its not just walking, there has to be a mental stimulation that is incorporated. We used scent and obedience training. Tracking with food, Hunt the mice in the field, Sit stay heel. You will need to teach the dog new things all the time to keep it from resorting to destructive acts, chewing, digging, marking, and all that. It goes back to purpose IMHO. They will herd until they fall over from exhaustion if you give them the opportunity. Purpose. First time dog owner? I've been around dogs and GSD for about all of my 50 years of life. Its a mixed bag. Its not beyond a reasonable persons capabilities to address any problems they come across. Best of luck with your new addition.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You can’t just buy a high drive GSD and expect it to grow into a “family guard dog.”
I strongly suggest you find your local German Shepherd dog club, go and look at dogs, talk to the owners, and see for yourself what is required to own one of these dogs.
Even a lower drive GSD is a lot of work, and if you have never owned a dog before, it can be overwhelming.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT a companion pedigree - not a novice owner pedigree.

One dog very very close up was bred by a guy who I knew pretty well. Spent time with him in Europe, he found me some dogs.....I *considered* buying this dog but the temperament he described was not going to fit into my home, my goals or my comfort zone. He was subsequently sold, titled and used at stud. Then - Not. This is NOT a combo or even individually either parent that I would feel comfortable recommending for anyone as a companion except someone very experienced due to the potential for hard serious aggression and possible orthopedic issues.

Lee


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## rotdocpa1 (Mar 19, 2018)

Have you seen the parents? If this is the breeding you have settled on I would encourage getting a good working dog trainer or joining a schutzhund club. This would be an interesting pedigree if you were committed to training in one of the protection sports but these puppies will likely require time and money committed to an experienced trainer. My own male is not a dog that you take to training at petsmart. If this litter is your must have I would encourage a female. Most of the situations where people get bitten or in over their head appear to be males. I have one friend who got a free 7 month pup from one of the top breeders out there when the owner threatened to take it to the spca. They were completely outmatched by a young pup. To be fair the dog as an adult is not safe for most people to handle. Personally I am hearing of more outmatched pet buyers as the public gravitates towards hi octane working dogs and that includes other breeds like malinois. Good luck with your decision.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

I got a dog from this litter. It’s a lot of dog. I am working with an experienced trainer. Here are some videos of the pup for anyone interested.



https://youtube.com/channel/UCxzTa36pJLFqDsO6fd7-2lA


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Old thread but....

wow - did Stefan really do this breeding?? He bred brother and sister?? Is this correct?


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

They have different parents, so it wasn’t a brother and sister breeding. The links to the pedigree database show the respective parents


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sonny1984 said:


> They have different parents, so it wasn’t a brother and sister breeding. The links to the pedigree database show the respective parents


I'm not sure what you think I'm asking about or if you didn't actually read my post before you responded. 

Dora and Bacon, who produced JT von der Staatsmacht, have the same father, Terror von der Staatsmacht (as referenced by the clip I posted that I copied from PDB, from the link that was posted above). That makes them half brother and sister. And I verified it on Working Dog since PDB isn't that accurate sometimes. So yes, Stefan really did do that breeding of brother to sister (with the same father) to produce that J litter which is very much against SV rules. 

My next question would be what traits he was backmassing on with such a close breeding. But that's a question for me to ask him directly.

As far as the breeding originally asked about - Jake has a good reputation from everything I've heard of him so I would advise people go directly to him to ask about his breedings.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

Jax08 said:


> I'm not sure what you think I'm asking about or if you didn't actually read my post before you responded.
> 
> Dora and Bacon, who produced JT von der Staatsmacht, have the same father, Terror von der Staatsmacht (as referenced by the clip I posted that I copied from PDB, from the link that was posted above). That makes them half brother and sister. And I verified it on Working Dog since PDB isn't that accurate sometimes. So yes, Stefan really did do that breeding of brother to sister (with the same father) to produce that J litter which is very much against SV rules.
> 
> ...


I misunderstood and thought you were asking if the parents of the mentioned litter (Yago and Evie) were brother and sister. But yes, as you pointed out, Evie's dad came from a brother / sister (same dad) breeding. I got a relatively chill dog from the originally mentioned breeding (Yago and Evie), and he still has a lot of drive. The breeder is reputable and did a great job with everything.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sonny1984 said:


> I misunderstood and thought you were asking if the parents of the mentioned litter (Yago and Evie) were brother and sister. But yes, as you pointed out, Evie's dad came from a brother / sister (same dad) breeding. I got a relatively chill dog from the originally mentioned breeding (Yago and Evie), and he still has a lot of drive. The breeder is reputable and did a great job with everything.


I remember hearing something about a super close breeding thru Statsmaacht but didn't pay attention. Now I'm curious what traits he was looking to set with this J litter. Your puppy is a Rilyn dog, right?


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

Jax08 said:


> I remember hearing something about a super close breeding thru Statsmaacht but didn't pay attention. Now I'm curious what traits he was looking to set with this J litter. Your puppy is a Rilyn dog, right?


I'm not sure about the inbreeding or motivation behind it - I wasn't aware of it until you pointed it out. That's correct, my puppy is Evie Rilyn x Yago Real K9.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sonny1984 said:


> I'm not sure about the inbreeding or motivation behind it - I wasn't aware of it until you pointed it out. That's correct, my puppy is Evie Rilyn x Yago Real K9.


Breeders typically do that to set traits in their lines. My boy's breeder did a 2-3 for that reason. But like I said - it's a question for Stefan directly  I think I'll send him a message and ask because I'm very interested in Faro Blendy, because of the mother line, who is a Trojan son. So now I want to know what that T litter was like that he linebred on it like that.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> That is a far cry from the East German dogs you wanted before. What is it your looking to do with the dog? It’s rare that I say it, but I wouldn’t choose this as a first time dog owner litter unless you have someone very good to work with. Drive and aggression.


As mentioned earlier, I have a pup from this litter. Things are going well but he does have aggression. I’m curious to know how those who did knew the pups would be aggressive?


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## rotdocpa1 (Mar 19, 2018)

A variety of reasons. I think the line breeding on Terror, also the stuff I have seen coming down from Karn can be tough. There are others as well. How old is your pup? In my training group the sh... seems to really hit the fan when the males hit about 18 months. What aggression are you seeing?


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

The combination of dogs. One of the first things I look at is linebreeding. In this case you have terror. Combine with the other dogs in the pedigree and you start to get a picture.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

rotdocpa1 said:


> A variety of reasons. I think the line breeding on Terror, also the stuff I have seen coming down from Karn can be tough. There are others as well. How old is your pup? In my training group the sh... seems to really hit the fan when the males hit about 18 months. What aggression are you seeing?


Cool good to know. My pup about 7 1/2 months. He would bark like crazy at other dogs and skateboards. I would call it reactivity but a trainer I worked with said at times it was boiling over into aggression. I live in an apartment in a busy city so it made for some hectic walks on a daily basis for a couple months. Leash correction type of approaches sometimes worked, but also sometimes the leash pops just set him off more. I ended up putting a bark collar on him a couple weeks ago, and 3-4 corrections on low levels helped him a lot. He’s pretty chill around dogs now, still suspicious of skateboards but doesn’t bark at them. I’m hoping to start protection training with him at some point. I also have some odor imprinting tubes to do scent work, planning to start that next week. The dude can sniff like crazy.


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