# A good breeder?



## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

Alright so we are currently looking for a good reputable breeder. Because in just 2 weeks we are hoping to have our new gsd pup So ive been skimming The internet for a good breeder for quite some time now. I have come across a few breeders but I wasn't sure if they were actually as good as they said they were. I have a hard time believing wat people tell me because of the last incident I had with a previous gsd breeder. Long story short, he lied a lot about his dogs and for some stupid reason I believed him just because he said he was a reputable breeder. So anyway I came across this one breeder who said a ton of good things about his/her dogs and sounded like he/her knew about the breed. Then we contacted them and we asked if they kept their dogs inside or outside and they said outside. And all the puppy pics were taken outside, so im asuming that the pups are kept outside too. Them when we told them that we didnt want a puppy from a breeder who keeps his dogs outside, he said the puppie scan become anything we want them to be (indoor or outdoor). I personally am definitely against keeping any breed of dog outside. So I guess what my question is ... Is this breeder a good breeder or a bad breeder? I feel like he/she is a backyard breeder but im checking with u guys just in case


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

It depends. Many breeders have multiple dogs and it's easier for them to be kenneled outside, the dogs have more room than a crate inside. 

I would not rule out someone whose dogs were kenneled instead of inside because of that. 

But you are setting yourself up for a spur if the moment purchase by setting a timeline on purchase. I would find a breeder you like, and then wait for an available puppy. Not look for a breeder that happens to have one ready in you set timeline. Not that it CANT work out, but I would not go that route. 


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks Thats all I needed to know And your right about finding a puppy that fits into my timeline, I just think it would be nice.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think finding a puppy from a responsible breeder in two weeks will be a challenge. Are you looking on classified ads or are you actually researching lines/breeders? If so, I'd skip the ads. There are a few facebook pages with breeding announcements and pups for sale, that may be a better way to go than the ebay/puppyfinder sites. Not that you are doing the puppyfinder, but most good breeders don't need to advertise on such sites.


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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

Start by your location. Search within how ever many miles your willing to drive. 

Then make a list of all the breeders you like within your distance. 

Make a list what you like and dislike. 

Weigh everything out.

I drove 7 hours for my puppy. He was the best option for me, don't regret it at all.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

You are picking something that will be in your life for the next decade or more. I would devote more than 2 weeks to that decision.


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

Ive actually been looking for a good breeder for a few months. Im just saying that we would like to have our puppy in 2 weeks. We don't have to, I just thought it would be nice to have him at the beggining of spring break


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Like gsdsar said, I wouldn't rule them out.

I just personally like getting mine from more close knit breeders who do live with them / keep them inside. When I picked up my last pup, he was sitting on the couch with the breeder's toddler watching Curious George LOL. 

So I say it's all about personal preference  


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## DobbyDad (Jan 28, 2014)

Curious George is way to violent for my puppy to watch.


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

Lol nice 
Ya I think im gonna go with a breeder that keeps his dogs inside.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I keep my dogs inside but I've got two puppies now that were from litters where one dog was a kennel dog and the puppies were raised in a barn type pen. If the genetics are sound and you get the puppy around 8 weeks, there is plenty of time to home-raise the puppy. If you insist on them being born and raised indoors, that is fine but just keep in mine a lot of great breeders do not do that and a lot of really crappy breeders do. It's not indicative of the person's experience with the breed or the quality of their dogs.

The timeline is going to be a huge hurdle because many litters are spoken for before the puppies are even born, so that's 8+ weeks out. You may find a puppy that was spoken for and then someone changed their mind but that would be more of a getting lucky scenario.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

If you haven't already, read the sticky at the top of this forum on what to look for in a responsible breeder.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Inside or outside doesn't really matter. I know Finn was born in the breeders living room, but was moved "outside" after a week. The kennel was bigger than my first apartment and was better insulated and outfitted. Four large rooms for a pup to explore, plus several doggie doors that led to a large, fenced paddock where they were able to play and have a blast. 

The only time outside should be a concern is if the dogs are chained up and they have no access to adequate shelter, water, or food.

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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> Lol nice
> Ya I think im gonna go with a breeder that keeps his dogs inside.


 
I don't totally understand how this is your only qualification?


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

It isnt. Ive found lots of different gsd breeders and im looking for the right one I want to be 100% sure that the breeder is right for me. Actually this breeder actually only had 1 male pup left. I personally like to have a choice of a few pups. But thats just me Also the breeder recently dropped the price for the last pup from 1000 to 850. Did he do that because he really wants to get rid of it? Sorry if I get kind of annoying with all my questions lol.


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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> It isnt. Ive found lots of different gsd breeders and im looking for the right one I want to be 100% sure that the breeder is right for me. Actually this breeder actually only had 1 male pup left. I personally like to have a choice of a few pups. But thats just me Also the breeder recently dropped the price for the last pup from 1000 to 850. Did he do that because he really wants to get rid of it? Sorry if I get kind of annoying with all my questions lol.


 
That's nothing compared to the questions Im asking!!! My list gets longer almost daily (although none of mine have anything to do with price...)

Are you looking SL or WL? What do you want to do with the dog? There are breeders close to you and ones that ship dogs from everywhere. 

*disclaimer! I don't have a dog yet either but Im tentatively looking around at different breeders now*


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

meldy said:


> That's nothing compared to the questions Im asking!!! My list gets longer almost daily (although none of mine have anything to do with price...)
> 
> Are you looking SL or WL? What do you want to do with the dog? There are breeders close to you and ones that ship dogs from everywhere.
> 
> *disclaimer! I don't have a dog yet either but Im tentatively looking around at different breeders now*


Well then i guess we're both kind of on the same page
and um...what does SL and WL mean?
Sorry if i dont know these things yet:apple:


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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> Well then i guess we're both kind of on the same page
> and um...what does SL and WL mean?
> Sorry if i dont know these things yet:apple:


 
Start by sorting out what you want to do with the dog first! Then work from there. There are two types of GSD. Very different. And within at least WL dogs there are even more types >.< 

SL-show line
WL-working line. 

Do you just want a pet?


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

meldy said:


> Start by sorting out what you want to do with the dog first! Then work from there. There are two types of GSD. Very different. And within at least WL dogs there are even more types >.<
> 
> SL-show line
> WL-working line.
> ...


Oooooh i got it
Right i dont know why I didnt get that at first.
Well I'm hoping to find a good working line gsd pup. I want a dog for many reasons. You know companionship, an exercise buddy, a friend, a playmate and many more reasons Let me know if i missed anything important.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

IF the dog is going to be a pet be certain that the breeder's dogs are companions. Many working line & show line breeders are beloved pets as well as show or performance dogs but there are some whose dogs really aren't pets in any realistic sense. 

Outside, inside really isn't a good indication of a good or bad breeder...Djibouti's & Phoenix's breeder has an outside kennel setup however her dogs are all rotated through the house, all have basic obedience, toilet training & house manners. She has a couple that always stay inside. 

Whether you go with working, show or companion lines be very clear on what you want & need from your GSD. Are you certain a puppy is the best choice? Adults are soooo much easier (& more rewarding in many ways). I've gotten pups & adults. I've bonded equally well with both. Breeders often have, or know of people, who have very nice adults & older pups available. (I'd rather get an adult GSD from a breeder than a shelter or rescue b/c the background, history & pedigree are available from the breeder. For me, this is important, given the multitude of problems in the breed.)


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

IMO a price drop would be a red flag for me. Unless the dog has a problem (which I would avoid), the price generally goes up because the dog has had more training, more vet care (and at certain ages will pass markers like hip/elbow prelims), and the breeder has an even better assessment of temperament.


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

Liesje said:


> IMO a price drop would be a red flag for me. Unless the dog has a problem (which I would avoid), the price generally goes up because the dog has had more training, more vet care (and at certain ages will pass markers like hip/elbow prelims), and the breeder has an even better assessment of temperament.


Then I should just keep looking right?


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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> Then I should just keep looking right?


 
I think you're focussing on the wrong things....totally the wrong things but that's just my opinion >.< Maybe Im doing this whole process wrong...


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

meldy said:


> I think you're focussing on the wrong things....totally the wrong things but that's just my opinion >.< Maybe Im doing this whole process wrong...


what do you mean?


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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> what do you mean?


 
Where the pups are raised and their cost has very little to do with the end product and this is a family member you will have in your world for upwards of 10 yrs (at least)
How much it cost you and where it was born are going to have not a **** thing with the temperament and sanity of the dog.
Just my two cents!


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

meldy said:


> Where the pups are raised and their cost has very little to do with the end product and this is a family member you will have in your world for upwards of 10 yrs (at least)
> How much it cost you and where it was born are going to have not a **** thing with the temperament and sanity of the dog.
> Just my two cents!


oh I gocha. 
The only reason why I said that outdoor breeders don't seem the best to me is because I asked a similar question on another dog forum and the responses of those people were completely different! They said that it would be very cruel to leave a gsd outside for more than a couple of hours and that a dog will suffer if left outside like that. They got upset and told me to just except the help I was getting:/ So then I kinda did and felt very awful for asking that question. 
But anyway I totally get what your telling me 
You probably know a lot more about the breed than I do.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

No, I don't buy from breeders that have a pack of GSDs roaming loose outdoors, but many do have kennels or large barn type setups. The past few puppies I've had, one parent has been a completely indoor dog and the other has been a part time kennel, part time indoor dog. If the dogs are just loose in a yard....doesn't sound like a very professional or experienced breeder.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Knowledgeable breeders give the dogs the time & training needed whether the dogs reside indoors or out. I need to know that the dogs are well suited to be pets. This might not be as readily apparent with dogs maintained solely in a kennel/outdoor setup. I've known several breeders who claimed their dogs were well suited to be pets b/c of their solid nerve/genetics, but their dogs were not kept as pets, were rarely placed as pets (& had a high failure rate when they were). Personally, I wouldn't get a GSD from anyone whose dogs aren't beloved pets regardless of what else they do.


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

RubyTuesday said:


> Knowledgeable breeders give the dogs the time & training needed whether the dogs reside indoors or out. I need to know that the dogs are well suited to be pets. This might not be as readily apparent with dogs maintained solely in a kennel/outdoor setup. I've known several breeders who claimed their dogs were well suited to be pets b/c of their solid nerve/genetics, but their dogs were not kept as pets, were rarely placed as pets (& had a high failure rate when they were). Personally, I wouldn't get a GSD from anyone whose dogs aren't beloved pets regardless of what else they do.


Well said


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

RubyTuesday said:


> Knowledgeable breeders give the dogs the time & training needed whether the dogs reside indoors or out. I need to know that the dogs are well suited to be pets. This might not be as readily apparent with dogs maintained solely in a kennel/outdoor setup. I've known several breeders who claimed their dogs were well suited to be pets b/c of their solid nerve/genetics, but their dogs were not kept as pets, were rarely placed as pets (& had a high failure rate when they were). Personally, I wouldn't get a GSD from anyone whose dogs aren't beloved pets regardless of what else they do.


Ruby I like your posts but don't much go along with this one. 
Right now there are 2 lines primarily, working and show, with several versions of each of those.
Personally nerve is most important to me. Nerve strength in a balanced stable dog. Good temperament and health.

Finding the breeder who can give you that is the trick. Not whether their dogs are pets or born and raised inside or outside. 
Most breeders claim their dogs have excellent nerves/genetics.
Finding the ones that actually do is the problem.
That and trying to differentiate between the many versions of GSD.


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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

Jack's Dad said:


> Ruby I like your posts but don't much go along with this one.
> Right now there are 2 lines primarily, working and show, with several versions of each of those.
> Personally nerve is most important to me. Nerve strength in a balanced stable dog. Good temperament and health.
> 
> ...


 
This is more or less what I was getting at...there's so much more to finding a breeder than cost and where the pups are raised. It's way more complicated than that...especially if you are going WL dog. That might be me just talking out my ass as Ive ONLY looked at working line dogs. The information you need to take into account is immense or you totally risk getting a dog you, and no one else, can handle, because it was the right price and raised in someone's kitchen.
It just seems like an incredibly short qualification list...you could find one of those on any bulletin board at a grocery store. You're potentially buying a total unknown that happens to look like a GSD.

Ive been talking to people and reading about WL gsd's for months (almost a year actually) and I still haven't settled on a breeder. That being said Ive only gotten hardcore into researching in the past two months maybe and even in that time Ive talked to some breeders that look great but don't produce anything consistent and consistency is one of my key goals!


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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

Maybe I just take it very seriously...sorry! I dunno...I don't even have a dog lol Not yet anyway!! But when I get one I want to make sure Ive covered all my bases as much as I can as far as eliminating as much risk as possible in that dog not being what I want.
This is going to be my sidekick for a very long time. I better cover my butt and make sure I like him/her!


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

meldy said:


> This is more or less what I was getting at...there's so much more to finding a breeder than cost and where the pups are raised. It's way more complicated than that...especially if you are going WL dog. That might be me just talking out my ass as Ive ONLY looked at working line dogs. The information you need to take into account is immense or you totally risk getting a dog you, and no one else, can handle, because it was the right price and raised in someone's kitchen.
> It just seems like an incredibly short qualification list...you could find one of those on any bulletin board at a grocery store. You're potentially buying a total unknown that happens to look like a GSD.
> 
> Ive been talking to people and reading about WL gsd's for months (almost a year actually) and I still haven't settled on a breeder. That being said Ive only gotten hardcore into researching in the past two months maybe and even in that time Ive talked to some breeders that look great but don't produce anything consistent and consistency is one of my key goals!


So then what do you recommend? SL or WL? 
And also does line of the gsd effect how it behaves around people and much exercise it needs?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> So then what do you recommend? SL or WL?
> And also does line of the gsd effect how it behaves around people and much exercise it needs?


Are there any clubs near you(2 hour drive) that you can visit to see dogs working and hopefully the different lines are there so you can see them for yourself.
You need to be the one to decide which is best for you or what you like...not someone else.

The line isn't what plays into the behavior, but the genetics and temperament of the particular breeding match. 
Exercise(mental and physical) is important for any 'working' breed...which the GSD is supposed to be. They need and want to learn, work, please, and do it to their potential.


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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> So then what do you recommend? SL or WL?
> And also does line of the gsd effect how it behaves around people and much exercise it needs?


I don't know what you are looking for besides a 1000$ dog that is born and raised inside. And I wouldn't be close to qualified to help you but there are a ton of people here who can.  
First thing I suggest you make a list of why you think a gsd is the dog for you and work your way out from there


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> So then what do you recommend? SL or WL?
> And also does line of the gsd effect how it behaves around people and much exercise it needs?


What Jane said.

The perfect dog for me would probably drive you insane. You need to get out and meet dogs in training and just chilling. Find out what you can about those dogs, which is usually pretty easy. Dog people love to talk dogs. You will see things you like and things you don't. This will arm you with the knowledge to make the best decision possible.

Then, go meet the sire and dam of the litter you are considering. Are they dogs you would like to own? Do their personalities attract you? If it is a repeat breeding, try and meet some of the older siblings to see what they are like.

This is a big commitment. If you are going to get a puppy, you can't really see the personality that will come out in the dog as it matures. Finding the right breeder and litter will take you a long ways towards getting the dog that fits you.


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## meldy (Oct 23, 2013)

See I was under the distinct impression (and still am) that WL and SL are different types of dogs suitable for different goal. 

This is why I say I'm not qualified! But I think your need/want list should be longer than price and birthplace. That's all


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

meldy said:


> See I was under the distinct impression (and still am) that WL and SL are different types of dogs suitable for different goal.
> 
> This is why I say I'm not qualified! But I think your need/want list should be longer than price and birthplace. That's all


There are many SL dogs that compete in many sports. Individual dogs are suitable for different things. If you are trying to get to the top of a sport, you should look to breeders that produce top sport dogs. If you want to participate at club level, you have many more options. You will spend far more time living with the dog than on the field. Having a dog you can live with is important.

This is why people recommend meeting dogs. You may think you want a certain type of dog on paper, but find that it is too much dog for you in reality.

David Winners


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

meldy said:


> See I was under the distinct impression (and still am) that WL and SL are different types of dogs suitable for different goal.
> 
> This is why I say I'm not qualified! But I think your need/want list should be longer than price and birthplace. That's all


Price and birthplace is definitely not all that I'm looking for in the pup! I'm looking for temperament, trainability and other traits I just meant that I felt more comfortable buying a puppy from someone who keeps their dogs inside But I guess I'll never know. Maybe I'll come across an amazing breeder who does keep his dogs outside sometimes:gsdhead:


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Andy, I said it very poorly if it wasn't clear that I consider a solid, stable dog with excellent nerves to be an essential part of being a pet. Such GSDs exist among all of the lines. However, it is -imo- important when seeking a pet to choose a breeder whose dogs have a proven track record as pets. Numerous wl & sl breeders, whose dogs frequently show & compete, produce such GSDs. There are others that -again imo- simply don't. Their dogs aren't really pets in the usual sense of the word & when placed as pets they have a high degree of failure which is usually blamed on the owner.

Some examples...in a thread about the alligator phase a member noted that her wl never really struggled with bite inhibition. He competes in SchH but learned appropriate bite inhibition very quickly, very easily. Bingo! 

In another thread discussing helpers, a breeder noted she's had to explain to some helpers that her dogs don't bite children, ie if the dog doesn't detect a threat he doesn't aggress. Another Bingo! 

Another thread had a breeder who frequently places dogs with LE showing pictures of his dogs happily playing with his grandchildren. Yes!

Another showed a breeder cuddled up with her wl dogs & cats in one big furry love ball. 

Another member stated he'd never known a GSD that was naturally good with children. I've always disliked the breeder he got his dogs from & that statement further cemented my opinion. 

I've spoken with a couple of breeders & read of a couple more who take great pride in their unapproachable GSD who can't be touched even with the owner present. (In 2 cases that I know of, the dogs are so unmanageable they can't go in for vet care). I know of 2 people who not only use these dogs as studs but sell the resulting pups as 'family dogs'. 

I personally believe that a GSD of appropriate temperament should be able to excel as a family pet regardless of whatever else s/he does. That simply isn't always the case. People seeking a GSD as a pet should be certain that the breeder they choose produces dogs that are in fact successful pets. They might also do IPO...or SAR...or detection...or LE. None of those preclude being an excellent family dog but it should not be assumed that a breeder is producing GSDs that are well suited to being pets simply b/c the breeder claims that they are. Much like always claiming to produce good temperaments, breeders almost always claim their dogs make great pets. Discerning buyers who are seeking a pet should be certain such claims are true.

People planning to pursue IPO, SAR, obedience, agility etc are advised to seek breeders whose dogs actively participate & succeed in those endeavors. The same s/b done when seeking a pet. This doesn't mean avoid one line or favor another...Just be certain that the breeder's dogs are pets in the fullest sense of the word.


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

RubyTuesday said:


> Andy, I said it very poorly if it wasn't clear that I consider a solid, stable dog with excellent nerves to be an essential part of being a pet. Such GSDs exist among all of the lines. However, it is -imo- important when seeking a pet to choose a breeder whose dogs have a proven track record as pets. Numerous wl & sl breeders, whose dogs frequently show & compete, produce such GSDs. There are others that -again imo- simply don't. Their dogs aren't really pets in the usual sense of the word & when placed as pets they have a high degree of failure which is usually blamed on the owner.
> 
> Some examples...in a thread about the alligator phase a member noted that her wl never really struggled with bite inhibition. He competes in SchH but learned appropriate bite inhibition very quickly, very easily. Bingo!
> 
> ...


Wow that's a lot of information! Thanks so much! I'm totally gone use your advice while looking for my gsd pup


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

RubyTuesday said:


> Andy, I said it very poorly if it wasn't clear that I consider a solid, stable dog with excellent nerves to be an essential part of being a pet. Such GSDs exist among all of the lines. However, it is -imo- important when seeking a pet to choose a breeder whose dogs have a proven track record as pets. Numerous wl & sl breeders, whose dogs frequently show & compete, produce such GSDs. There are others that -again imo- simply don't. Their dogs aren't really pets in the usual sense of the word & when placed as pets they have a high degree of failure which is usually blamed on the owner.
> 
> Some examples...in a thread about the alligator phase a member noted that her wl never really struggled with bite inhibition. He competes in SchH but learned appropriate bite inhibition very quickly, very easily. Bingo!
> 
> ...


Yes, I most certainly agree with this post. Might start a thread on this very topic.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I am currently rehabbing a WL girl who did not do well in her first pet home. She is not a pet, she is a companion, and that is what I love about her. She requires respect and a job of her handler. Sometimes dogs are produced who need working homes and that's ok.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

op, i know exactly what from my next gsd. you need to be very sure of what you want and then find a breeder that can supply this gsd. be honest with your self and breeders you talk to. plenty of gsd being pts as they end up with the wrong dog. imho, wanting a dog in a two week time frame is mistake number 1. not being educated in the different flavors of gsd is your second mistake. limiting your geographical search is another mistake. seek out breeders on the forum and get their invaluable advice. and slow down. i myself would walk away from deposits rather than end up with the wrong dog.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

Good on you for questioning the breeder.

My experience - I have had fairly good experiences with breeders of all my dogs except for one breeder which is a shame because he breeds for temperament and I really like the dogs he has produced but I would never buy from him again. 

Talk to as many people you can and good luck with your new puppy


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