# New here! Raising two males together



## sgts_wife22

*Howdy!*
*I am new here and just posted my 1st thread about our younger GSD's ears. *
*I have another concern I'd like to ask for opinions on.*
*I belong to another forum - not dog related - and one of the members there is a rottweiler breeder. She has repeatedly insisted that there is no way we can successfully raise our two MALE GSD puppies together without major fighting and possible injury.*
*About the two dogs - one is 11 months old, a male sable. The other, my puppy, is 10 1/2 weeks old and a bi-color. They share a sire and their dams are sisters. Since the time we brought the new pup home @ 8 weeks old the two have been inseperable. Personality-wise the older pup is laid back, but strong willed; making him harder to train. The little one is more assertive, more full of himself, but very obedient and has been a breeze to start training.*
*Neither dog is altered and the decision hasn't been made as to when they will be.*
*I would like to hear imput from other GSDs owners that have raised two males together successfully - and I know you're out there!*
*TIA *


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## Cathygirl

I have 2 males and a female and all get along great!!! They are all fixed though so not sure how much that matters! My sister also has 2 neutered males that get along great together.


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## Dainerra

the biggest problem is what you are already seeing - the 2 pups are inseparable. The dogs will bond more together than with you.

there are more knowledgeable people who can tell you how to deal with that. The dogs might not ever fight with each other, it just depends on their attitudes as they mature. 

Lots of people have dogs of the same sex. But raising 2 puppies at the same time is the most difficult part!


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## JKlatsky

I have 3 intact males. 2 are siblings from different litters. It is a big mistake to let them be together all the time. They need to bond with you first and foremost and respect you as the pack leader. If you are not the leader and in complete control, then 2 intact males will eventually fight. 

I think this article points out some of the more serious consequences of raising both pups together and outlines some good guidelines on avoiding the pitfalls. I would follow it verbatim but it has valuable advice. 
Raising 2 pups at one time in a Family Setting

The future relationship of your 2 depends entirely on you. Of my 3, I cannot put the 2 older ones together, but they were not raised together. My 3 year and my 11 month old can run together without issue. However, we followed a certain protocol to get to that point. I consider it extremely important that I have control when they are playing. I like to be able to issue commands and have them followed when the dogs are playing and they are never together unsupervised. We start out introducing through crates, then we do leashed walks together, then obedience together...I outlined what I do here in this previous post.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/122259-puppy-bonding.html

No it's certainly not impossible to have 2 intact males together, but you have to be ready to train it and enforce it. And with one strong-willed, and one assertive male you sound like you will have your hands full.


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## DianaM

What you are doing is extremely difficult. Many people have had major fights. Also, what are you doing for socialization? Each dog must be taken out separate of the other for socialization. What about training classes, are you taking both to classes? It is HIGHLY recommended.

The rottie breeder is spot on. Raising two puppies at the same time without almost total separation is detrimental to these dogs. Some can succeed but most will have some degree of issues up to and possibly including serious fights. Are you willing to risk injury and possible loss of life, unsocialized and untrained dogs that team up to be even greater terrors? Are you new to the breed? If you are a seasoned pro who trains and competes then you'll have a better chance but I would not ever wish this situation on someone new to GSDs.


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## Emoore

I'd rather have 2 males than 2 females for sure. 

I have two males and they've never had a serious fight, but they're 8 years and 3 years and both are neutered.


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## sgts_wife22

*Thank you so much for the replies and the links. *
*I should have mentioned that we went into this with our eyes wide open and have made the effort to spend time with them as individuals and together. We socialize heavily. *
*We live in a very rural area and have not found any formal classes anywhere near us. *
*I am home with the dogs 24/7 and spend a large part of my day training them and exercising them. *
*Again thanks. *


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## Dainerra

most recommendations that I've seen for raising 2 pups together is to keep them apart the majority of the time. Otherwise, they will bond most closely with each other. After all, they DO speak the same language and like to play the same games. You are just the person who brings food!


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## IllinoisNative

Emoore said:


> I'd rather have 2 males than 2 females for sure.
> 
> I have two males and they've never had a serious fight, but they're 8 years and 3 years and both are neutered.


I have a similar situation. I have two neutered males and they are 7 and 4. They have never had a cross bark between them. They literally LOVE each other. I have one who grooms the other's ears. I've had them both since puppies. I think what helps is that they have compatible temperments.

I know people say to get a male/female pair but, working in rescue and having my own dogs, I really believe it comes down to temperment. I have two males who have never fought. My father has two females who have never fought (which is astounding since they were both rescued as adults and both are around the same age). My sister, however, has a male/female and they do fight.

I can't even tell which dog is dominant. One dog wants a spot on the couch, he'll crawl over the other dog until that dog gets uncomfortable and moves. LOL! They do it to each other. Neither are jealous and they don't fight over my attention. Frankly, with how much I pet them, they gladly want me to focus on the other one!:laugh:


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## MaggieRoseLee

I think the fact that they are 2 males together isn't nearly the issue for you as the part about having two PUPPIES at the same time. 

CLEARLY people can do this and have it work fine, but it's much much harder than raising one puppy for about 3 plus years before adding another. I know for me, the one on one with a SINGLE puppy is more than enough for my schedule. If I had to exercise/socialize/train one puppy, than go home and do the same with another puppy I'd probably be a stressed out nutcase. 

But that's me and my schedule.

The stuff you need to look out for and prepare for are well laid out in these 2 articles:

http://www.uvhs.org/behavioral_docs/double_trouble.pdf

Raising 2 pups at one time in a Family Setting


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## sgts_wife22

*I have realized that for the next two years or so my life is tied into raising these two to be the best dogs, happy and healthy as they can be. I don't mind. I have endless free time. *
*I guess I should amend my OP about the boys being inseperable. That's not exactly accurate. I should have said that they each know where the other is at all times. I think our older pup, Jax, is afraid we are going to take this puppy away. Before the new pup Kane, Jax was socialized with other dogs and especially loves playing with our DD's chihuahua. Only the chihuahua goes home when his family does, and I think Jax likes having another dog in the house full-time.*
*Jax and Kane do play together, but now it's quiet time in our house. Jax is asleep in his usual spot on DH's feet (in the living room) and Kane is asleep at my feet, here in the office. There's no question whose dog is whom's. *


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## IllinoisNative

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I think the fact that they are 2 males together isn't nearly the issue for you as the part about having two PUPPIES at the same time.


I agree. That seems to be the bigger issue. I had two female Siberian Huskey littermates growing up. The biggest issue we had, aside from the fact that they wanted to escape every chance they got, was that they bonded more to each other than to the people in the family. But back them, people lacked the awareness.

I'm glad the OP is aware of this and will take the necessary precautions. It's a lot of work to have two puppies at one time. I'm tired just thinking about it. Heck, with two grown well behaved dogs laying beside me, I'm tired thinking about one puppy.


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## Dainerra

I'll tell you about my 2 dogs. Rayden was raised by us from a puppy. He is very people oriented, will do anything for us, follow you everywhere. Basically everything you have ever heard about a GSD. On the rare occasions that he DOESN'T follow me, he still knows exactly where I am. He is 100% people oriented.

Freya is our rescue dog. Her primary interactions have been with other dogs. She could care less what people are doing/where they are. But 100% of the time she knows where Rayden is. She is much more "dog-oriented" Actually to the point where he sometimes finds her annoying!

Which one do you think is more biddable? If you have one puppy out working/playing and the other is inside, does the puppy look for the other? That is the problem with 2 young ones together. Unless you work ALOT on them separately. Not a bit here and there and then play with them together. But 2 completely separate schedules. Like 80% of the time the dogs are kept separated and only 20% of the time together.

I can tell you, even if you are home all day, it's dang near impossible! esp if you have kids (not sure if you do) Mine are in school, Rayden and Freya are both grown, and it can still be hard to get in the "alone" time that they each need.

ETA: when the dogs are separate, you can easily see how they were raised. Rayden is 100% biddable and focused entirely on who he is with. Freya, on the other hand, is constantly looking for him. She would much rather be around another dog than a person. So, unless you are very careful, that is what you could end up with. It's simple nature "birds of a feather" and all that. The 2 dogs will always have much more in common with each other. It will be more fun for them to play together than to play with you (forget about working for you). That is the problem with 2 being raised together, not the sex of the dog. However, when they both mature, they could very easily become worst enemies!


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## Castlemaid

It may turn out fine, or you may end up with issues - raising two puppies that close in age, as others have said, is going to be a challenge. And of course they love each other now, they are still babies, but things may change as they get older. I am sure there are people who made it work, but I also know people who did all the right things, and the puppies ended up constantly battling each other for the dominant spot as they got older, and needed to be separated, 100% of the time. I also know of older dog/puppy combinations, where the dogs get along famously, and when the younger hits two, three years old, and starts to test for dominance position, things fall apart real fast. 

I brought a puppy into my household when my older girl was five years old (or so - she is a rescue). Puppy spent ALL of his time with me alone, or crated when I wasn't around, and I let them have an hour of supervised play per day. Rest of the time, puppy came to work with me, stayed at a friend's house (who lived like 2 minutes away from my work) in a crate - I zipped over on breaks and lunch to let my pup out and play with him. At home, I had baby gates all over the place to keep my older dog separated from the pup. Then I had to make sure my older dog got an hour of my time at least a day of play, walks, excerice and training. I did take the two of them on leash walks together outside of the one-on-one time. It was exhausting. It took up ALL of my time! Would I do it again? In a heartbeat! But I knew exactly what I needed to do, and how much time it would take.

It wasn't until the pup was six months old or so that I started allowing more time with my other dog. There has been others on the board who are home all day and argue that they make sure that their pup gets at least an hour of one-on-one time with them apart from the other dogs, so they pups will bond with them and not become too "doggy", but I would argue that they need to invert the time ratios: Allow one hour a day of free interaction with the other dogs, and the rest of the time access and interaction with people only. There is a huge difference as Dainerra said in a dog that is bonded and focused on you, and one that did not get that early shaping. Like Dainerra's rescue, working with my rescue was a real challenge. Her recall, up until last year, was pretty much non-excistant - my pups have almost an automatic recall! It seems that it doesn't even cross their mind to not listen. 

Good luck! Have fun with your boys. And if you have a set up where one pup is your husband's and he spends the time and effort to train, socialize, and bond with his puppy, and you with yours, that is a good start.


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## sgts_wife22

Once again, thanks. Your replies are giving me food for thought and lots of good information to work with.


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## emmacooymans

*Raising 2 german shepard pups*

I have raised 2 puppys at the same time, both intact males who i have had since 5 weeks of age, it can bee done! we have no fights, no issues with food, they were both house trained in 3 weeks.
Thay have grown up to big beautiful happy dogs, with great personalitys.
I did not crate them, they always have played together, without problems.
Any information i ever looked at told me it could not be done, this is unfair and misguided, I am not saying it was easy, however all it took was time.
I am the pack leader, always have been and always will be. Good luck to anyone out there.


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