# Dog Park Frustrations



## KodyK (Mar 30, 2013)

So I recently started taking Corey to the dog park near my apartment (I live in NYC). It's a pretty small park and most of the people there are awesome with awesome dogs. But I had two frustrating encounters recently.

The first happened two weeks ago. I was at the park with my roommate when this couple comes in with their Pit Bull. I LOVE pits (my sister and brother both have one) and this dog was gorgeous. And he immediately caught my attention because he couldn't bark - he made these really garbled, screaming sounds. It was bizarre.

The dog seemed really sweet and friendly, but he started trying to hump one of the female dogs in the park and wouldn't leave her alone. The dog had been there when I was there before and knew me, so she ends up jumping on the bench with me and hiding. (The owner asked me if it was okay and I said it was.) The dog kept trying to get to her and the owner just kept yelling at him but doing nothing about it.

Then another pit owner came in with a female, and this dog's owners start chatting him up clearly trying to see about breeding thier pits. Turns out, this young dog was not fixed.

Now, I know some have feelings different from mine on this, and I respect that. For me, personally, though, I"m completely against casual breeding, especially of pits as there are TONS of them in shelters, especially in this city. But that wasn't what upset me. What upset me was that they knowingly brought their intact male who they admitted likes to hump EVERYTHING to a dog park where there is the possibility of intact females and were doing NOTHING to keep the dog off the females.

I ended up leaving about twenty minutes later because this dog started going after Corey. Corey is fixed, but she doesn't take well to dogs mounting her (who can blame her) and he would. not. leave. her. alone. His owner just yelled lazily at him but did nothing. Corey ended up crying and trying to hide behind me, too. So I started putting her harness on so we could leave (Corey is a guide dog, I"m legally blind, and my harness makes that really clear.) So I"m putting her harness on and this dog keeps jumping on her, scratching me. My roommate is trying to help keep the dog off both of us so I can get Corey's harness on, and meanwhile the owners are standing THREE YARDS AWAY just saying "bad dog . . . stop it . . . don't hump."

Let's just say I wasn't the only one leaving at that point. About half the park emptied out around the time I left.

The second issue was similar, but with a different dog.

I went to the park another day (also with my roommate) and there's a bulldog there. His owner is on the phone and a little girl (maybe 8 years old) is running around the park with the dog. This dog seemed nice to people, but he quickly showed to be dog aggressive and dominant. He snapped at Corey and growled at a dog entering the park so aggressively that the owner turned around and left. My roommate said something to the little girl - who was clearly a little afraid to intervene with her own dog - suggesting that she let her dad know the dog was gaurding hte gate and snapping at incoming dogs.

The dad didn't get off the phone. He just told the 8-year-old to "be firm" with him. This dog weighed more than the girl did. And, again, it's clear she's too scared to grab his collar or intervene if the dog starts snapping at another dog. 

Seriously - if your dog is aggressive towards other dogs, the dog park might not be the right place, but ESPECIALLY not if you're going to sit on your phone and make your scared kid watch the dog.

I love the dog park most days, but man, some people just amaze me.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Hi,
I live in Staten Island. I can understand your desire to frequent dog parks.
However, I will warn you that dog parks are not the best places for dogs. It's a great place for the owners to chat, while the dogs ATTEMPT to establish pack order.... not happening.
My dog cannot enter a dog park. I've been observing her since a puppy, and the park dynamics are too unpredictable for me to ever feel safe for her.

I do make one on one playdates with a single dog that I know plays well with her.

To address your thread... You will NEVER get what you're expecting from a group of dog owners in a dog park. No matter what, you''ll get rude owners, aggressive dogs, dog fights, people bringing toys, and "in the blink of an eye" injuries.

IMO, you're better off either going for long walks with a dog-owner friend, or avoid that place.
Trust me, the way you describe it, it's an accident waiting to happen.


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## KodyK (Mar 30, 2013)

I really enjoy my time at the park most of the time. Most of the people who attend mine are awesome and take great care to watch their dogs. These were just two incidents out of several, several visits.

Normally I'd avoid the dog park, but I have no other place to let Corey have off-leash play time. And, after observing my dog, I know she's extremely non-confrontational and moves away from squabbles at the park. She likes other dogs, but mostly she wants to be able to run a couple times a week. 

If I had a better place for her to run, I'd skip the park, but it's my only option. And luckily, most of the time, it's a great experience. And even when it's not, my dog avoids the conflicts and returns to me so we can leave.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear about your frustrations. I can imagine living in a large city there are not too many close, local choices for allowing your dog to go leash free.

Having a GSD has made me be more forward/assertive. So maybe next time you go to the dog park and an owner like the Pit owner is not intervening with their dog, you can kindly but firmly say to them to keep their dog away from yours, but I'd still plan on leaving. Having an 8year old in the park is inappropriate also. I've signed up for a few group dog events and usually the youngest age allowed is 10 yrs old.

Outside of the dog park I've witnessed unattentive parents ignore their kids due to talking on their cell phones in potentially dangerous situations. I live near the beach and one parent totally ignored her daughter walking on these slippery rocks that big waves were crashing over. No locals/surfers ever go where this kid was going.

I like what Anthony recommended, the one on one play dates, or see if there are any decent meetup dog groups in your area. Hope you have a better time during your next visit.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Well the dog park thing is easy. You don't go to them like me or you go and take your chances.

How is it that you have a fearful guide dog? Whining, crying and going behind you. That would be a bigger concern to me.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

I couldn't take Jack to a dog park... Even though we live in an unfenced neighborhood and everyone's dogs are mostly off leash... They are all tiny dogs and barely distract him for a minute at a time. He really could care less... But still, I wouldn't take him into a big dog park. 

When I lived in Dallas with my little Weimaraner, I would take her. We had mostly positive, but a couple of negative encounters, so I was glad to move elsewhere for her sake, but nothing near what you've seen. Sorry for your experience 


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## KodyK (Mar 30, 2013)

She's not fearful by any means. But she's been trained not to snap at other dogs, and after grumbling at the pit didn't work and he chased her, she started whining at ME to make him stop. She's been trained to come to me rather than to bark or snap at another dog that is bothering her. She wasn't scared, just annoyed.

The other dog that hid behind me WAS scared, but she wasn't a guide dog. She was just a really young, smaller dog.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

KodyK said:


> She's not fearful by any means. But she's been trained not to snap at other dogs, and after grumbling at the pit didn't work and he chased her, she started whining at ME to make him stop. She's been trained to come to me rather than to bark or snap at another dog that is bothering her. She wasn't scared, just annoyed.
> 
> The other dog that hid behind me WAS scared, but she wasn't a guide dog. She was just a really young, smaller dog.


I was just about to clarify this for the last poster because your words were very clear to me...but you explained it better than I could have.


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## ten3zro (Jul 13, 2013)

IMO dog parks are typically where lazy, inattentive owners take their poorly behaved dogs to practice their bad behaviors while the owners drink Starbucks and talk on their phones. The only utility is working with young dogs OUTSIDE the fence to help socialize and build focus WITHOUT allowing them to interact with the dogs. There will always be people who claim THEIR dog park is great, and there are probably some out there, but the risk far outweighs any reward. There are a zillion other better ways to exercise your dog. Throw in it being in NYC, which is the most awful place on Earth and is inhabited by sub-human savages, and there you go!


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Anyway...I know there are many diff opinions but I am a big fan of dog parks. The 2 experiences you mention are really frustrating. Glad you're overall experience is positive.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I get your frustration! While I don't live in a big city I do live in a VERY crowded built up area(southern California). It's a desert environment, we don't have woods or lakes or big empty parks like a lot of people here have. So dog parks are the only off leash we can do nearby... but I've been getting so fed up with the 'clique' that frequents the park. The one guy just sits there the whole time talking to his posse, SMOKES and best of all brings a lazer pointer in. He's got this little aggressive rat terrier that he lets do whatever it wants except to sometimes pick it up and yell in its face. Oh yeah this guys a tool...

Anyways after yesterday's visit with that little terrier repeatedly snapping at and chasing my dog(luckily my dog is like yours, avoids conflicts) and this guy doing nothing about it I decided enough was enough. It's just not worth it anymore. Is it possible to get her a long line, find a nice park or wooded area outside the city to let her get some exercise? Or even Central Park, never been but if they have any big grassy areas, that could work too. Sometimes there are privately owned dog parks with annual fees that check dogs temperaments, vaccines, etc but for the most part I think most dog parks are like what I described above, it is a risk you take going.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you can't lump all dog parks as the same. what happens in a
dog part has a lot to do with how the dogs are trained
and socialized.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Ok. The only ones I have known were fiercely protective but I'm not that familiar with their training.

Good luck with your dog. Is there a school or something like it where your dog could be loose and run without all the negative possibilities that dog parks can bring.


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## KodyK (Mar 30, 2013)

Carrie - I'm actually trying out a long line for the first time in a couple of weeks. A friend's dad lives down by the beach in Brooklyn and we're taking our dogs. So I'll see how that goes. As I said, over all, the park has been great. Most of the people there are responsible and attentive to their pets. These two owners are the only ones I've seen be so irresponsible. 

I have learned that going earlier in the afternoon (2-3pm) is better than in the evening when people start getting off work. Only like three other people are there then and all of them are good with their dogs. (Both of my incidents occurred in the evening). 

Luckily, Corey gets lots of exercise being a guide dog and going everywhere I do, but sometimes she wants to run and play, and my little apartment just isn't big enough for that.


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## KodyK (Mar 30, 2013)

Jack's Dad - they actually try to train OUT protectiveness in a lot of guide dogs. Guide dogs are NOT guard dogs. Though some still end up being protective despite training. Corey can be protective - mostly if we're at home. (She gets upset if someone tries to open the door without me or my roommate letting them in, for instance.) And while working, if another dog on the sidewalk lunges at her, she'll often body-block me or if a dog is barking she'll deliberately veer to the other side of a sidewalk to keep me as far from it as possible. But other than that, not much protectiveness. At least not that I've seen yet. I doubt she'd take well to a stranger grabbing me or something, but that hasn' happened.

Sadly, no as far as places for her to run. In NYC, dog parks and a very select few off leash, unfenced city parks are available. And those city parks are no where near me.


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## kjdreyer (Feb 7, 2013)

That is so frustrating when inattentive or ignorant dog owners ruin it for others. Unfortunately, your fix of just leaving is probably about all you can do, rather than risk a bad encounter for your dog. BTW, she sounds like a great dog! And you sound like a pretty patient person, too - if someone else's dog was bugging me like that humper, I'd be hard pressed not to say something! I hope you still get to enjoy the park with your girl!


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

We take Sabo on weekdays in the early/mid morning ONLY. we tried an evening and a ton of dogs were there. I ended up stepping in when strangers dogs were annoying another dog, just putting myself there an telling them firmly NO. :/ needless to say we took Sabo and his friend to the empty small dog side and let them play. They did VERY well with an older 15lb dog who had no qualms telling them to back off when shed had enough. I was more afraid that their prey drive would kick in, but they were too busy playing with each other. 


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## KodyK (Mar 30, 2013)

Ha. Some of Corey's favorite dogs at the park are smaller ones because they run fast and will race her. (Her favorite, favorite thing to do in the dog park is race.) I remember being a little nervous the first time I introduced her to a small dog (a friend's dog, not at the park) but she impressed me by laying down to greet him so that she was on his level and he could easily approach her. I guess I shouldn't be surprised - she went through TONS of socialization and training at the guide dog school - but I was still proud.

As for the park - I've grown up with large dogs my whole life and am not afraid to step in if I need to. In both these cases, I ended up stepping in with both the dogs at one point or another. The sad part was, both of the dogs seemed to be very friendly and sweet towards people, just poorly socialized. I think these owners thought taking the dog to the dog park and letting them be near other dogs WAS socializing them, but it ws just turning the dogs into bullies. Which is sad because, as I said, neither seemed like bad dogs over all. 

Either way, I'm very glad Corey is so non-confrontational and just avoids squabbles. It does make things easier when the situaton gets bad and we need to leave.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I think you've answered your own question.
The solution may be to go there during off hours, when there aren't too many other dogs there. 

I used to make it my business to walk past the fenced in dog park, and use the distractions to work on my dog's focus. Sometimes, I would sit on an exterior bench, and just watch the dogs interact. I can't tell you, how many of these seemingly friendly dogs, ended up almost killing each other.
Looking back almost 2 years later, and still sitting on that bench at times, I see that most of the dogs from last year are no longer there. I've had conversations with those that do frequent the park, and they tell me that one by one, the dogs work their way out of the park because of incidents.
It's just a matter of time.

Only advice I can further give you, is to be careful. If the park dynamics seem high, may be a better idea to go for a long walk that day.

If you don't mind, where in NYC are you? What park is it?
You can PM me if you'd like.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I only take Ozzy to the dog park to swim. He has zero interest in the other dogs, and if a dog starts bugging, I move to the other side (there's two main sections) or leave.

First time I went to the dog park, a chi was harassing a pit bull. Chi's owner thought it was funny until the pit grabbed it by the head and started throwing it around like a ragdoll underwater and a hoard of other dogs wanted in on the action. Pit's owner did nothing to intervene - a random guy whose dog wasn't involved rescued the chi.

I am very observant at dog parks - to my dog, to other dogs, and their owners. I've noticed that most people pay absolutely zero attention to their dogs. Many that do are totally oblivious to the behaviors their dog is displaying. Many see a precursor to a fight as playing, and there has been more than one occasion where I mentioned this to an owner, they tell me, "Nah, he's friendly! He's just playing!" Not five minutes later, they were splitting up a fight.

Honestly, seeing young children and babies at dog parks is unsettling to me. Many dogs see kids as something to chase. They're small, they make loud noises, and when a dog scares them, what do they do? They make loud noises and RUN. What does the dog do? Engage.
What's worse is the parents are as oblivious to their children at dog parks as they are their dogs.

When I get my GSD, we will simply sit on the hill outside the dog park to work on distractions and ignoring passing dogs.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Hi KodyK, firstly I'm sorry that you've had these bad experiences, especially with your very precious and loved service dog. It's scary enough when bad things happen to our dogs but to have such a highly trained dog that you need to help you function more fully in society amps that concern up I would imagine.

So I pose the following to you as food for thought with all due respect but I feel you wouldn't have posted your story if something wasn't already niggling at you..... I'm not trying to make you feel badly just, well IMO, you're taking some chances in an environment not suited nor safe to you or your dog.

So the question is, does your dog 'really' need this sort of interaction?

I've seen it too many times at dog parks, serious dog fights that break out in a split second. You may go to the park and never have it happen to your dog but all it will take is just one time and it could seriously damage your precious dog, forever. 

The other item to think about, you said you are legally blind. Based on my knowledge of that term your sight is severely impaired. So you will have a harder time seeing those dog body language signals ahead of time and may not be able to intercede, even if you have a friend there. 

Your dog is trained to be submissive it sounds like. Dog park bullies are going to take advantage of that, that doesn't seem fair to your dog.

I dunno, you have a very special dog with very special training why take the chance at a dog park with people as you described in your first post?

If you must take her somewhere find a private dog park, or doggie playcare center where the dogs are monitored and handled by experienced staff or as others have mentioned play dates. Perhaps you could find other service dogs in your area and set up play dates.

I would respectfully urge you to consider if it really is in the best interest of your dog's well being to be exposed to increased risks in a very uncontrolled environment. Everything has pros and cons and given you are legally blind and have a very special service dog, IMHO the cons outweigh pros.

Best to you and your Corey, she sounds like a wonderful dog!


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## KodyK (Mar 30, 2013)

Gwen - A few things.

First, my main reason for taking Corey to the dog park at all is because I have no where else to let her run or play fetch. While usually her guide work is enough to tire her out, sometimes the dog just wants to play and run, and as I live in the city, I don't have a yard for her to do that in. So I opt to go to the dog park. And, as I said, most of the time it's been fine. And in both these two instances, while I was frustrated, I was able to remove my dog from the situations at hand.

You asked about my vision. Yes, my vision is severely impaired. However, I have enough vision to see most of the park and to keep an eye on Corey and the language happening between her and other dogs. Typcially, though, my sighted roommate is with me, so if something is happening that I can't see, she can.

And, as someone else said, I kind of ended up answering my own question for the solution. Taking Corey earlier in the day, when there are fewer dogs, seems to work well since it's not the interaction she wants but the chance to run off-leash for a bit.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I read your posts carefully and addressed the points you mention. 

If I were you I would not take the risk, having seem some knock down drag out dog fights at dog parks. IMO it's too much of a risk to take with a service dog that you rely on, period. I would view the two incidents you mentioned as warning signs. Again, just my opinion.

I also respect that she is your dog and you have the right to make those judgment calls.

Best to you and Corey too.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

Ive brought my girl to the dog park but kinda stopped, not quit but stopped going as much. Some idiot has a big wgsl gsd and he was letting Baron get too rough with Apache. I stopped it and he gave the typical dog park line that its ok theyre just being dogs... His dog was on top of mine mouthing her while she yelped. 
That said my dog can handle it, no issues. I think thats from bringing her to the park as a pup instead of sheltering her. Sheltered dogs have major issues from little things.


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