# Agitation at 6 months



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

Our big 55lb 6 month old is working on agitation to see how he reacts. Which by the time he is about a year old or older, will turn into bite work/protection training. He is pretty fierce, and protects his momma like it's nobody's business. Does anyone have any input on protection training/bite work? His trainer is also his breeder - a k9 trainer/cop.


----------



## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Once again, I know nothing about sch training. Just seems to me a 6 month old pup should not be showing aggression or should be acting protective at this age. But, as I said, I am not knowledgable in this area.

Seems more to me that pressuring a young pup into defense prematurely can backfire on you.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

sorry, I would stop . This dog is stressed to the eyeballs , that is total fear . What is the guy doing ? flipping a tug? This is a statement about the dogs temperament . His age, no aggression work should be done period -- he is still learning the ropes of what "normal" life is , and if you belonged to any of the clubs I belonged to you would be told to get better foot wear . Flip flops don't ground you if the dog decides to lunge . You can't anchor.

Get familiar with Turid Rugaas - lots of illustrations in her book about the emotional state of dogs.
Questions and answers from Turid Rugaas

wrinkled nose , flash teeth , ears back , body rigid ---
over reaction to (what?) threat -- you will have to watch that when someone comes to you and extends the hand for doggy to sniff before patting , that doggy , doesn't head for this behaviour -- pre-emptive fight .

my comments - others may differ
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


----------



## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

That just seems like way too much for a puppy that young..He looks stressed.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I wasn't sure what forum to put this in. If this isn't right then I will move it to a more appropriate forum.

ADMIN Lisa


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't really like the body language but it's just two photos so who knows.


----------



## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

Omg.


----------



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

As I said in a post before, this is my first shepherd and I was trusting his breeder/trainer (who trains k9s regularly) on her opinion. She doesn't do it often, she was testing his temperament. This why I asked for advice. So thank you to all who have responded. He is very much a big puppy, but at the same time I didn't know any better to correct her, since she's been doing this since '92. Thanks for advice/opinions, I genuinely appreciate it. From here on out, until he has matured, it will be strictly obedience training, which he is doing very very well at. I want him to be properly and well trained in every aspect.


----------



## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Looks like he's being pressured in defense way too young--he's not ready for this level of pressure. If you want to do bitework with him, I'd recommend getting him to play tug and do some prey-play with the decoy to get him comfortable with that scenario.


----------



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

He is an extremely happy dog, which is why she couldn't use him as a k9 dog. Him on a normal day, is playing tug of war with our miniature dachshund and lounging on the couch.


----------



## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

I would not continue with whatever is being done. He's not forward, he's back by whoever is holding him, he looks scared to me. At this age, it should be fun and about learning the behavior, not terrifying/fight for your life...in my opinion.

This is my pup at 3 months - he is straining forward, barking but his ears are up and his tail is up...
http://youtu.be/S5osaWDtn_o

This is him again at 7 months, more pressure but he is still confident. I, personally, like to see my dogs be very confident as they learn new things...
http://youtu.be/8k7-NqrvxKA


----------



## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

samijrichards said:


> As I said in a post before, this is my first shepherd and I was trusting his breeder/trainer (who trains k9s regularly) on her opinion. She doesn't do it often, she was testing his temperament. This why I asked for advice. So thank you to all who have responded. He is very much a big puppy, but at the same time I didn't know any better to correct her, since she's been doing this since '92. Thanks for advice/opinions, I genuinely appreciate it. From here on out, until he has matured, it will be strictly obedience training, which he is doing very very well at. I want him to be properly and well trained in every aspect.


Its not that you can't start bitework - its that, the way it has been started is the wrong way to go about it. Young dogs starting bitework should be taught that it is a game, all in prey and its FUN to get the toy from the helper, building confidence, not take it away.

Here is a video of my 10 1/2 month old male doing some bitework. He LOVES this stuff and is definitely having fun. He is confident that he can take the sleeve from the "bad guy" and the "bad guy" makes it easy by slipping the sleeve to build him up.






 




 
Hope this helps!


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

samijrichards I understand your position and don't think you meant anything wrong. But just based on those two photos the dog's body language looks all wrong. What type of protection training are you looking to get into? I'm not saying anything about your breeder (don't know who it is) but believe me I've seen lots of weird and messed up training by people who insist on their experience breeding and training K9s. I hate to speak ill of people but seriously if I had a dollar for every person that was supposedly an awesome police K9 trainer I'd be living on my own island. If the dog is not going to be a K9 then I would look for a reputable club within the venue of protection you're interested in. If it's Schutzhund training you're interested in, start there and visit as many clubs as you can.

There are different ways to teach bitework, some like to do rag/tug/prey stuff with puppies and make it more into a game, some just wait until the dog is mature enough to start the work....but in any case you never want a really young dog pressured into such "fight or flight" type of defense.


----------



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

I understand. He is a great boy, and the way she was agitating him was just riling him up and getting him to bark/show teeth. I do not want it done the wrong way though, those two pictures are just the only ones I had. He isn't always back like that and immediately afterward his tail is back to wagging and he's super happy again. So I'm just not sure if it's being done all wrong. But I will keep playing with him and playing tug of war and letting him take it from me, as well as letting him ease off of the agitation.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

To my understanding, it is a science. If you put too much pressure on a dog too young you either end up with an aggressive dog or you shut the dog down completely. At this point it should be all prey drive and nothing more than a big game. 

I am only going off what I see in the pictures. I don't know what was really happening as I was not there. This is just something to think about I guess. Have fun training with your good looking GSD.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

backing Liesje , yeah private island , and every GSD out there has a police dog daddy (sure)-- I would question the credentials of the person/breeder/trainer , hmmm, if you know what I mean. 
Did they imply that this breeding was supposed to provide police suitable dogs , and yours was rejected because he was too friendly. 
Got a pedigree ?

What I would do is thank them for the free training , and then find a good training club whether schutzhund or straight obedience and have the dog evaluated there . That way you know the nature of the dog .

You say that the obedience part of their training is good . Can you describe a session of your training . How do they motivate , correct , etc.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


----------



## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

You know, I just want to say something.

This is why I stay on germanshepherds.com. Sure, some threads can get annoying (another pitbull debate, another dog park debate, another schutzhund then vs now debate) etc but its awesome to have a resource like this to go to - people more knowledgeable than myself offering constructive advice and helping each other out 

So thanks everyone for being so awesome


----------



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

Yes, I have his pedigree. Not right infront of me though as I'm at work. And his obedience training consists (right now), of at the park, walking with him on my left side with a choke collar & leash, keeping him at my side. When I stop, he automatically sits and looks at me. If he keeps going I pop the collar. We are working on laying down or (platz), and he's doing well with that off of the leash, but hates doing it when on leash. She told me to never train with food, which I see a lot of people do. But he is doing well off leash (as long as I can get his attention) and on, without the treats/food.


----------



## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Small bits of food is great for engagement training.


----------



## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Never train with food? Really? 

Considering what she is putting your dog through and this advice, if it were my dog I would run far away from her and never go back. Food is extremely useful in dog training. It is one of the best ways to train certain behaviors. I sincerely hope we are all wrong, but I fear we will be seeing a post from you down the line about your dog having bit someone...

Be cautious and explore other trainers to get a well rounded experience.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Those pictures made me cringe. That kind of training shouldn't be done on a dog of any age, not only 6 months old pups. If a dog doesn't have what it takes to enjoy bitework, then it should never be forced into the dog, MHO

From all your posts on this thread and in the pedigree thread, run away as fast as possible from the person who bred your pup. Sorry to say this, but looks like you are being scammed in all ways possible. But don't trust me, nor anyone in this board either, go around and see with your own eyes how people with real credentials train and decide for yourself what makes more sense. How does the obedience of the pups trained with food look like and how does like the obedience of those dogs trained by your "breeder" (using the term loosely).

This is my female (now Schutzhund titled and SAR certified) doing heeling with food at 4 months old.
http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/catu2111/Diabla y Akela/?action=view&current=leftturn.mp4

Actually I took a break from my SAR team because I'm a little fed up of all the politics within. One of the things that exasperate me is one of the volunteers now hiring himself as "Dog trainer" and claiming on his website to have 10 years of experience after not have trained a single dog by himself on his life. The only dog he has now, I gave him almost fully obedience trained and yet he handled her so bad that managed to blow the obedience in the SAR certification. But hey! He is on a K9 SAR team!!!


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Catu said:


> This is my female (now Schutzhund titled and SAR certified) doing heeling with food at 4 months old.
> Diabla y Akela :: leftturn.mp4 video by catu2111 - Photobucket
> QUOTE]
> 
> Okay! I thought I was doing awesome with my 7 month old until i watched this video. Thanks for making me feel inferior. My girl is just now about where yours was in the video.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

mycobraracr said:


> Okay! I thought I was doing awesome with my 7 month old until i watched this video. Thanks for making me feel inferior. My girl is just now about where yours was in the video.


If it helps something, she has not improved that much on the following 4 years... but I hope my posture and handling are a bit better by now... :crazy:


----------



## marshies (May 18, 2011)

I can't speak to the quality, technique, or anything technical about your training, but I do want to touch on using food. I hope you'll do your own research into whether or not it has a role in your training. I've only had my dog for 4 months but I do use training in my food. She's not the best trained canine there is, so do consider that when you read my response.

Dr. Sophia Yin and a ton of other people have studied and applied conditioning in dogs and other animals, and how it can be used in training. It's the basis for all of the positive training methods you see. Rewarding behaviors with food helps give dogs a clear indicator of which behaviors are good and worthy to be repeated. 

You can still use corrections to teach your dogs which behaviors are NOT allowed, but I find food easy to use to teach which ones ARE allowed.

There's more about reinforcement rate, weening off food, and a ton of other information if you do choose to incorporate it.

Hope you'll go do some research on your own and draw your own conclusions about using food and other positive reinforcers in your training.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

carmspack said:


> backing Liesje , yeah private island , and every GSD out there has a police dog daddy (sure)-- *I would question the credentials of the person/breeder/trainer , hmmm, if you know what I mean. *
> Did they imply that this breeding was supposed to provide police suitable dogs , and yours was rejected because he was too friendly.
> Got a pedigree ?


x2. This pup is not close to a standard for any line of GSDs, from the photos you've shown, he's got a gay tail, soft ears and looks almost mixy.

Not to mention, I am no expert but I'm pretty sure if you're going to "work" a dog in "bite work", even beginning bite work, you'd put a collar and leash on it, other than a slip lead?


----------



## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Bottom line, dogs, like people, work for a paycheck. We prefer money. Dogs like food, toys, games, praise and affection are on the list but for many dogs, that isn't the best motivation. To grossly generalize, food is great when you want to work on precision and when you want to keep your dog motivated without overexciting your dog. Toys and games (I count protection in prey drive in this) are great for building excitement and engagement as well as relieving pressure. Praise and affection are good if you dog likes them and are motivated by them and are best for quiet and calm rewards. Again, this was a gross generalization and it really depends on the dog. My dog isn't touchy-feely so petting isn't a good motivator. The ball and tug are GREAT for heeling and maintaining speed and enthusiasm for agility. I use food for everything else and have certain "classes" of foods depending on what we are doing and where. Low distraction training would mean lower value treats. If we are working around playing dogs, I have to bring out the cheeses that my dog LOVES. At the vet, it's vanilla ice cream. 

Food is a big psychological influence as well. Eating is calming and is associated with good feelings. For a reactive dog, associating food with triggers gradually reduces the negative associations and replaces it with positive, feel-good associations. There is no increased energy that one would get with balls or tugs, plus food is a great stress barometer; a dog that is overloaded will not eat which means it is time to back away the dog from the stressor.


----------



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

Thank you all for the help and guidance. I was led in the wrong path and am quickly running in the opposite direction. We have our first appointment with Lewis Lundy SCH trainer/obedience trainer on Saturday morning where he can observe my boy and see what his strengths/weaknesses are. I'm learning just as much as my pup is right now and I will continue to ask you all questions and give updates as I head through my long life with my amazing boy. Thank you all again.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Well it's a great thing you found this board! I know others have much more experience than do I, we have our GSD to lounge around the house and look pretty and bark when sketchy people arrive!
But if you're interested in working, yes, those are good first steps


----------



## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

i'm sorry, but I would not be doing that again. Whatever was being done is clearly very stressful for your puppy and he's not dealing with it well. There isn't anything in those pictures that I like.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

What is your reasoning for doing Schutzhund? I mean, why do you want to do it so bad? Have you done the research into the amount of time it takes? Also, once your dog has been taught to bite, it is a huge liability, and it takes constant training to keep the dog from going crazy. I've also never really heard of working on bite work before having obedience completely down, and I mean bulletproof down. I have doubts that your 6 month old listens to you 100% of the time, and he hasn't even matured yet.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

martemchik said:


> Also, once your dog has been taught to bite, it is a huge liability, and it takes constant training to keep the dog from going crazy. I've also never really heard of working on bite work before having obedience completely down, and I mean bulletproof down. I have doubts that your 6 month old listens to you 100% of the time, and he hasn't even matured yet.


Have YOU done Schutzhund?


----------



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

I find it interesting. Also, the club that I am having him evaluated at does more than just Sch, it's obedience as well. Which he will get down 100% before he starts anything other than that.


----------



## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

martemchik said:


> What is your reasoning for doing Schutzhund? I mean, why do you want to do it so bad? Have you done the research into the amount of time it takes? Also, once your dog has been taught to bite, it is a huge liability, and it takes constant training to keep the dog from going crazy. I've also never really heard of working on bite work before having obedience completely down, and I mean bulletproof down. I have doubts that your 6 month old listens to you 100% of the time, and he hasn't even matured yet.


 huh?

while I don't think anything productive was being shown in those pictures, I can promise that doing schutzhund doesn't take constant training to keep a dog from going crazy. 

Stressing the **** out of a dog with weaker nerves and teaching it that it can relieve pressure or make stressors move away thru biting is creating a liability. Of course doing schutzhund has absolutely nothing to do with that and the scenerios aren't remotely similiar.

and we always imprint bite work stuff long before obedience is even marginal, let alone bulletproof.

so many misunderstandings of what schutzhund consists of.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Catu said:


> Have YOU done Schutzhund?


Thanks for the reminder that I'm a lower class citizen because I've never done it. And no, but I've done the research into what it takes and due to my schedule I can't do it.

What I meant by my other statement is that the dog needs constant training as most of our dogs do, they get stir crazy after a while if they aren't getting the proper exercise and what not. The liability part isn't that the dog might just randomly bite people, because I know the dogs are usually rock solid about those things, but if your dog ever does bite someone for no reason, it is a much larger problem if its proven that you have taught it to bite. When I applied for renters insurance they asked me if my dog was ever trained in bite work, I have a feeling that my premium would've been much higher had he been.

And I know the bite work stuff that's imprinted is the prey drive stuff, maybe the information I had was wrong but I don't recall allowing a dog that has marginal obedience to go after an actual sleeve.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

He/she has quit now, they stated 2 or 3 times.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

martemchik said:


> Thanks for the reminder that I'm a lower class citizen because I've never done it. .


Nothing "lower class" about not having experience in something. But when incorrect statements based on ignornance and lack of experience are made they often will get called out. What you said about bitework training is pretty much completely incorrect. 




martemchik said:


> but if your dog ever does bite someone for no reason, it is a much larger problem if its proven that you have taught it to bite. When I applied for renters insurance they asked me if my dog was ever trained in bite work, I have a feeling that my premium would've been much higher had he been.


Now this can be true of some companies and some situations, but not all across the board. But that didn't seem to be the "liability" standpoint you were referring to in your previous post. Absolutely though the sort of protection training being demonstrated in those photos would create a dog that was a true liability, and I'm very glad the OP is no longer pursuing that particular trainer and methods.



martemchik said:


> And I know the bite work stuff that's imprinted is the prey drive stuff, maybe the information I had was wrong but I don't recall allowing a dog that has marginal obedience to go after an actual sleeve.


Yes, it would appear the information you have is wrong.


----------



## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> Nothing "lower class" about not having experience in something. But when incorrect statements based on ignornance and lack of experience are made they often will get called out. What you said about bitework training is pretty much completely incorrect.


:thumbup:


----------



## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

samijrichards said:


> I find it interesting. Also, the club that I am having him evaluated at does more than just Sch, it's obedience as well. Which he will get down 100% before he starts anything other than that.


We just started in Schutzhund, I also was not as big on using food during training, but man, now that I have found "puppy crack' i can't believe how much easier training is going.

we have an entire litter of 5 month old puppies in our class (cute adorable Sables- puppy fever is back-but I digress) NONE of them ever look like your poor pup in that picture. Some are only on the sack, some are on the pillow and the one male - Riker- is amazing- he is already doing the "long" bite , still not sleeve yet- but man when that pups get pulled out of his crate he is ON. he pulls, he barks, he hauls butt to the decoy to get the tug or pillow tug.

I am glad you are going to a club to get a better idea of everything. Once I went I had a MUCH better understanding of schutzhund and realized everything I thought I knew was completely wrong. Look forward to hearing how your class goes!


----------



## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

carmspack said:


> sorry, I would stop . This dog is stressed to the eyeballs , that is total fear . What is the guy doing ? flipping a tug? This is a statement about the dogs temperament . His age, no aggression work should be done period -- he is still learning the ropes of what "normal" life is , and if you belonged to any of the clubs I belonged to you would be told to get better foot wear . Flip flops don't ground you if the dog decides to lunge . You can't anchor.
> 
> Get familiar with Turid Rugaas - lots of illustrations in her book about the emotional state of dogs.
> Questions and answers from Turid Rugaas
> ...



Thank the gods... I was thinking the same thing but was hoping someone else would reply. Body language is SO wrong for that dog.


----------



## ~Saphira~ (Apr 25, 2012)

> Yes, I have his pedigree. Not right infront of me though as I'm at work. And his obedience training consists (right now), of at the park, walking with him on my left side with a choke collar & leash, keeping him at my side. When I stop, he automatically sits and looks at me. If he keeps going I pop the collar. We are working on laying down or (platz), and he's doing well with that off of the leash, but hates doing it when on leash. She told me to never train with food, which I see a lot of people do. But he is doing well off leash (as long as I can get his attention) and on, without the treats/food.


I'm not an expert or anything, but it sounds like your dog doesn't want on-leash training because of the choke collar. I don't own a GSD yet (Crossing my fingers, though) but I wouldn't use a choke collar... it sounds like you're getting better training out of him without it, anyways, which from what I hear is pretty good- everyone I've listened to has said that off leash is harder than on leash. 

Anyways, I hope everything will turn out how you want it too. You've got a very handsome boy!


----------



## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

~Saphira~ said:


> I'm not an expert or anything, but it sounds like your dog doesn't want on-leash training because of the choke collar. I don't own a GSD yet (Crossing my fingers, though) but I wouldn't use a choke collar... it sounds like you're getting better training out of him without it, anyways, which from what I hear is pretty good- everyone I've listened to has said that off leash is harder than on leash.
> 
> Anyways, I hope everything will turn out how you want it too. You've got a very handsome boy!


I used a choke collar with my shepherd and used them with my past sheps, too. As long as you place it correctly and are not harsh with it they make good training tools imo. It may not be right for his particular dog but sometimes it is more useful


----------



## ~Saphira~ (Apr 25, 2012)

> I used a choke collar with my shepherd and used them with my past sheps, too. As long as you place it correctly and are not harsh with it they make good training tools imo. It may not be right for his particular dog but sometimes it is more useful


Makes sense. Don't have anything against choke collars, of course, they haven't done anything to me. 

It makes me mad when I see people yanking way to hard on them, though.


----------



## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

That is so true  So many people don't bother to learn the right way to use them!


----------



## ~Saphira~ (Apr 25, 2012)

I suppose that can be said with any training technique. Anything that isn't used properly is going to harm rather than help.


----------



## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Again, very true. Some people just don't need dogs lol!


----------



## ~Saphira~ (Apr 25, 2012)

Seriously. *mutters something indecipherable under breath*


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

This is how my six month old boy (back then) was worked in SchH. Just plain ol preygames... 

Judge Bitework 2nd Day Greg Doud Workshop - YouTube


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> This is how my six month old boy (back then) was worked in SchH. Just plain ol preygames...
> 
> Judge Bitework 2nd Day Greg Doud Workshop - YouTube


Very nice video! I was trying to find a good video of my girl doing it but yours is better. Close to the same but you have/had a bit more bark than me.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

mycobraracr said:


> Very nice video! I was trying to find a good video of my girl doing it but yours is better. Close to the same but you have/had a bit more bark than me.


Yeah, that weekend was the very first time he was exposed to bitework. It was the second run he had. You can literally tell how it made click in his head. He had potential. Was very biddable in Obedience. It's such a shame... I miss that boy. 

Anyhow, it's not about Judge, I just wanted to give an example that there shouldn't be that kind of pressure on such a young dog.. unless you plan on breaking the dog which doesn't make any sense at all. :help:


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

My working line boy was a dud at six months. Squeaky bark, not real interested in dancing around for prey. He was kind of a sleeper, took a while for his drives to wake up. He's always been bold and confident, it just takes a lot of unsettle him, and even now he's still not really bringing aggression and fight, it's still mostly about prey or pure frustration to him.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Zefra LIVES for schutzhund, all three phases but have to admit, she LOVES bite work/protection.. here she is at 10.5 months.

You can clearly see that SHE is the one controlling "the game". To her, this is the best thing ever. No hesitation at all.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I also just wanted to post a few photo's so you can see the difference in body language. I too worked with some people with my male that kinda ruined him in a way (drive, not the dog) in the beginning but I didn't know any better. When I started Schutzhund with him, it made it a lot harder for us. 

When you know better, you do better.

I think that coming here was a good thing for you and your dog. It will make you aware of things that maybe you wouldn't of been aware of as a 'newbie'. I too sometimes stop and ask questions (like all the time!) with my club members or trainers and I have been doing this for a few years. But every dog, every training is different and even every session with your dog can differ. We grow and change as well.


@ about 6 months? 


















At about 10.5 months?














































Can you see the difference in body language? Zefra is the one coming to the helper, engaging HIM. This builds confidence (which she really doesn't need as she is already cocky). I would be very honest if you go with another club/trainer about what was done with your previous trainer so that they can help you and your dog through this process.

Also, don't be ashamed if your dog doesn't enjoy schutzhund. I have a 3 year old male who I have struggled with in the sport for 2-2.5 years. He is ready obedience wise for his BH/1 routine but I have decided to pull him from the sport because he just doesn't have the temperament for it or the drive. We will do our BH/AD and then be done. The BH is a temperament/obedience evaluation so I feel like that isn't applying too much pressure that he can't handle, but we have stopped all bite work with him recently.


----------



## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

Another video of a young puppy being worked in protection. 





 
This is Joe's first bitework session at 7 months old. This was fimed a month or so before I got him.


----------



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

Hey everyone I just wanted to give an updatde on Dean. We went and saw Lewis Lundy today, and he doesn't think he's full blooded. Thinks he's mixed with husky because of the tail :/ and now his tail has been hanging 90% of the time instead of curled. Basically because of what she did and the fact that he wasn't allowed to have toys for 6 months of his life, his prey drive was killed. So we spent about 2 hours getting him worked up, letting him watch the other dogs practice and finally he wasn't standing behind me anymore and started barking at the whip and sleeve when the other dogs were using it. So right now we're working on his prey drive and trying to build his confidence. I hope he gets there. He also said that if I wasn't interested in schutzhund as a sport, that he would hold private lessons with me and him to do protection training.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

There's more (IMO) than just his tail, his body is "square" instead of longer than tall/rectangular like a GSD. 
It's sad that those people are such awful breeders/"trainers". I'm sorry. 
I think it's just important to accept your dog as he is, temperament-wise, and work with him from there. He may never be a Sch prospect but he's still a wonderful pup with plenty of potential. 
Have you considered agility? I'm sure he'd excel at that!


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

samijrichards said:


> Hey everyone I just wanted to give an updatde on Dean. We went and saw Lewis Lundy today, and he doesn't think he's full blooded. Thinks he's mixed with husky because of the tail :/ and now his tail has been hanging 90% of the time instead of curled. Basically because of what she did and the fact that he wasn't allowed to have toys for 6 months of his life, his prey drive was killed. So we spent about 2 hours getting him worked up, letting him watch the other dogs practice and finally he wasn't standing behind me anymore and started barking at the whip and sleeve when the other dogs were using it. So right now we're working on his prey drive and trying to build his confidence. I hope he gets there. He also said that if I wasn't interested in schutzhund as a sport, that he would hold private lessons with me and him to do protection training.


Well there is some good news in there. Good for you for checking out other trainers. 

If you want to help build prey drive, get a flirt pole. They can help a lot! Thats what my club does with puppies and I still do it with my dogs every so often. I just use a lunge whip for horses with a cut up burlap sack on the end. It does wonders.


----------



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

I googled deans breeder today. She showed up in an article posted on the leeburg kennel website. She's a fraud and has been frauding people for years. Fake registrations, fake pedigrees, etc. She steals kennel names and breeds unregistered dogs. Yoda of blue skies (as posted in my pedigree post as his "dad" at one point) is a kennel name that she made up. Blue skies that is. I'm very much happy with my pup that I got out of this experience, but I'm extremely frustrated with the theif/con artist/criminal that I've allowed into my life. You all were so right and I just wanted to thank everyone for opening up my eyes. If you want to google her and look her up in that article, her name is **name removed by ADMIN** and her girlfriends name is ******* (also used as an alias.)


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

sami, you really are to be commended I'm glad your working with this trainer and like I said before, Dean is lucky to have you, and no matter where he came from he will most likely be the best dog you'll ever own, you'll teach each other everything

I'm sorry you got 'conned', but I'm glad for Dean that he is with you.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am so glad you are working with people who can help you bring out the drives in your puppy and build his confidence.

What you do is up to you. I am pretty sure Lewis won't push your puppy harder than he is ready for. Personally I don't do schutzhund but he impressed me and I have surely heard good about him. If you do bitework, I would definitely do the obedience and tracking to get the whole well-rounded picutre. I am trying to get my puppy started in agility as I think there is much to be said for the dog learning where all its body parts are!


----------



## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

samijrichards said:


> I googled deans breeder today. She showed up in an article posted on the leeburg kennel website. She's a fraud and has been frauding people for years. Fake registrations, fake pedigrees, etc. She steals kennel names and breeds unregistered dogs. Yoda of blue skies (as posted in my pedigree post as his "dad" at one point) is a kennel name that she made up. Blue skies that is. I'm very much happy with my pup that I got out of this experience, but I'm extremely frustrated with the theif/con artist/criminal that I've allowed into my life. You all were so right and I just wanted to thank everyone for opening up my eyes. If you want to google her and look her up in that article, her name is *******and her girlfriends name is ******(also used as an alias.)


Just google'd her, what a horrible person. It seems that she/he use to be a member of the board but got banned. Anyone know the username? he/she posted fake information about their dog dying.


----------



## samijrichards (Apr 19, 2012)

She is a horrible person. As well as her gf. Dean didn't even have a toy for the first 6 months of his life. I'm so glad that I rescued him and gave him a loving home. Please everyone read up on her.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

How old is that article on Leerburgs site? I didn't see any dates(is this recent?) other than someone wishing Ed a happy Easter. I hope you'll share your experience as well and that this sicko is not actively "rescuing" dogs to breed.


----------



## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

What a horrible person!!! Ten years and she STILL hasn't been stopped?! 

Samij- I am sorry that you were conned. But, now this insane/evil woman is in your past and you have an absolutely adorable dog who loves you as much as you love him  So congrats on that, and also- I am very impressed by the speed you took everyone's advice despite the shock. It was quite admirable. Keep us all posted on how Dean and his training are going!


----------

