# Behavior changes



## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Not sure if I should have posted here or under health section, hopefully this works. We have a 9 yr old GSD he has been acting rather sullen lately. Sleeping tons, not coming out to greet us or when we go outside....before you couldn't even whisper outside and he would beat you to the door. He went on eating strike this weekend and went 2.5 days and then started eating again. He has always been a bit of a compulsive licker, but in the last month we had to have him treated for 4-5 lick granulomas.....and now I just noticed another one after coming down from putting away laundry (so he only had about 1/2 hr to do it). History he is on Castor/Polluck organix dog food, he has severe arthritis in both knees, he is on tramadol, glucosamine supp, and salmon oil daily. He has had vet visits (which as of 6 months ago he has started growling at the vet who he has never had a problem with.) He had a checkup last month after unexplained nose bleeds.... all of his bloodwork (CBC) came back good. Does anyone have a similiar experience.....I guess I am looking for any feedback on how to help the granulomas....or anything that may explain his recent changes. Thank you.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I don't know, my first guess would be that he's in pain, either from the arthritis or something else. Maybe the tramadol's not doing it anymore?


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

We just started the tramadol about a month ago...after the Rimadyl quit being as effective. Not acting in pain...took a great walk today. I am hoping tonight he will be too tired to lick (wishful thinking) I spoke with the vet today, he recommended prozac since Kaos has always been prone to OCD and it seems to be getting worse with age. Any thoughts on Prozac?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

mysweetkaos said:


> We just started the tramadol about a month ago...after the Rimadyl quit being as effective. Not acting in pain...took a great walk today. I am hoping tonight he will be too tired to lick (wishful thinking) I spoke with the vet today, he recommended prozac since Kaos has always been prone to OCD and it seems to be getting worse with age. Any thoughts on Prozac?


Dogs will sometimes play through the pain if they are doing something they enjoy, but then will feel it afterward. Licking of the joints can indicate pain, amongst other things; the OCD does not help. 

I have seen animals make a complete turnaround on Prozac, so I think it's worth a try. It may even help relieve his pain a bit. I have a neck injury and arthritis in my hands and back; I am on Prozac and it seems to take my mind off the pain, if that makes sense.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Dogs will sometimes play through the pain if they are doing something they enjoy, but then will feel it afterward. Licking of the joints can indicate pain, amongst other things; the OCD does not help. 


I agree with that Kaos can be pretty stoic for the most part, I guess what I meant by doesn't act in pain is he gets a certain "swagger" about him when his knees are hurting which he didn't display on the walk today. Thank you for your reply. We are off to the vet to pick up Prozac this afternoon. I hope it works....I hate to see him suffer even a bit whether it is from pain or anxiety.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Prozac can cause aggression and IME, did little to help the anxiety. 

I found with our one dog that licks out of anxiety, leaving a ton of chew toys lying about helps. Especially if, when I catch him licking, I can redirect with the chew.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Thank you. We will definetely keep an extra vigil watch on him for signs of aggressiveness. Kaos is a very old 9 unfortunately, he hasn't had much interest in kongs, toys or much of anything besides his daily walks. So distracting him is much harder to do. He does leave it well...so they are starting to heal, but due to his OCD affecting his happiness we are willing to try it and hope for the best.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

mysweetkaos said:


> ..... He had a checkup last month after unexplained nose bleeds.... all of his bloodwork (CBC) came back good. Does anyone have a similiar experience.....


Do you have a copy of the bloodwork? If not, please get it. It would be good to double check those numbers ourselves.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

I am actually taking our puppy into the vet tomorrow, so I can get a copy of the blood tests then. I am assuming you or someone would be able to see the numbers and interpret them? I can interpret human results....but no experience with doggy #'s. If you could help by looking at them I will certainly get a copy and post the #'s tomorrow.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I can help, to some degree.

We've seen, on too many occasions, where the bloodwork held a clue, but the vet told the client that the bloodwork was perfectly fine. If you can read human values, I bet you'll be fine with the K9 numbers


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

What supplements do you have him on? Pain made Chama extra grumpy but she did better once I found the correct supplement combo. 

Have you had his thyroid tested?


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

I am going to doublecheck tomorrow....but I am fairly sure thyroid was tested when CBC's were done. I am very new to this "senior" dog thing. I just wish I could have him frozen at 5yrs of age.......

Forgot to answer. I have him on glucosamine/chondroitin as well as salmon oil. Don't know much about the world of dog supplements.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Let us know when you get the results. I'm worried about the nosebleeds.....did they do a SNAP 4dx test, which checks heartworm, lyme, ehrlichia, and anaplasmosa?


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Ok so I have the copies of labs. First I will put what they wrote on a tumor biopsy they did at the same time. Then I will list blood work with recommended range in ( ) next to his #. Any input you all have or knowledge would be great. Thank you!

Tumor--Essentially acellular consisting only of scattered erythocytes along with scattered cellular debris and a few fat droplets. No evidence of significant inflammation or neoplasia was observed. A few mature adipocytes were seen.

Total protein 6.8 (5.8-7.4)
Albumin 3.5 (2.7-4.4)
Globulin 3.3 (1.6-3.6)
A/G ratio 1.1 (.8-2.0)
AST (SGOT) 20 (15-66)
ALT (SGPT) 17 (12-118)
ALK PHOS 10 (5-131)
GGT 1 (1-12)
T. Bilirubin .1 (.1-.3)
BUN 19 (6-31)
Creatinine 1.0 (.5-1.6)
Bun/Cre ratio 19 (4-27)
Phosphorus 5.1 (2.5-6.0)
Glucose 77 (70-139)
Calcium 10.5 (8.8-11.4)
Magnesium 1.8 (1.5-2.5)
Sodium 145 (139-154)
Potassium 5.4 (3.6-5.5)
NA/K ratio 27 (27-38)
Chloride 112 (102-120)
Cholesterol 307 (92-324)
Triglyceride 86 (29-291)
Amylase 468 (290-1125)
Lipase 459 (77-695)
CPK 82 (59-895)


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Do you have the blood counts, the CBC portion of the blood test? Things like monocytes (absolutes and percentages), neutrophils, platelets, red blood cell counts, etc.? Those are particularly important to look at when you are looking at nosebleeds. 

Also, is there a T4 value anywhere, to check the thyroid? The cholesterol above is on the high end, and in many cases, that can correlate with a low thyroid, which can cause some of the symptoms you're seeing (but not the nosebleeds). 

As for the chemistry, it looks great , though you've got a low end glucose there, that I'm not sure is meaningful. 

I'm wondering if they forgot to give you copies of part of the bloodwork?

Great news on the tumor


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

I noticed those were missing as well LisaT. I will call Monday and see what I can find out. I did notice the cholesterol while I was going over (or as my husband puts it obsessively checking) the numbers. All in all I thought those results were good. I was very pleased with liver/kidney #'s as he had been on rimadyl and I was worried with everything you hear. I will update Monday when I find out more on the #'s. Thank you. Update on the prozac though. The Dr decided to put that on hold. Our rescue puppy was diagnosed with sarcoptic mange (we've had so much trouble with itching since we got him) so anyway the vet thinks Kaos has contracted that which caused itching which caused excessive licking and scratching....so we are going to get rid of that and then see if he is still at the OCD licking before we proceed with Prozac. The joy of dogs.........good thing we love them!!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I guess good for the mange ?!?!?!? LOL, keep me posted when you get new info!


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Kaos is doing great as far as the mange:crazy: So nasty....our puppy is still super itchy...yuck!! As far as the blood work. They didn't do a CBC the vet said he just did a presurgery eval panel. Not sure why....I used to really like our vet, lately as Kaos ages and I need the vet more, I am not such a big fan. However K is due for blood work again in about a month (monitored every 3 months due to pain meds) so this time I will make sure and request the complete panel. Sorry it took me so long to reply!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

That type mange is contagious to humans too, btw.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

That's what I've heard.....thankfully none of us have had issues (yet) I am going out of my mind trying to get this puppy healed. I am so glad my husband loves me because between the two dogs I have spent more time and money at the vet in 2 months than probably the 5yrs prior


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

I am not sure this is relevant at all, but I was on Tramadol (Ultram) a few months ago for what was thought to be arthritis and it made me really ill. I hurt worse taking it than I had before. My appetite was zilch (even the smell of food almost made me sick). I lost a pound a day for the two weeks I was on it. Could Tramadol be making your dog ill too? Just something to think about.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Lyme-sulfur dip, ivermectin and/or that flea med...selemectrin? Works.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

msvette2u...we've done 3 rounds of Promeris (topical flea treatment) that didn't work. We've now done 2 dips.....last one was last week. He was super itchy yesterday, now today he looks all better. So we are hoping...we have stuff for one more dip due this weekend. If this doesn't work I was going to ask about the ivermectin. Thanks for your advice.
Bridget...I don't think the tramadol is causing a problem, but we continue to monitor closely. He is doing so much better on that with only the occasional rimadyl rather than the other way around. He was prescribed 2 tramadol 2x a day....but we found through trial and error he does much better with 1 every 4-6 hours. His appetite is actually very improved (for now) he still has the occasional bad day...but even the neighbors commented this weekend how good he has looked in the last couple weeks. We did start/adjust some supplements...so I think they are helping.


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