# New born puppy!



## maddog1371

Here is one of my new born pupps out of eight, he's only two weeks in this picture. Just wondering if anyone would know what to call his coat. His mom was a black and tan, and the dad was white with some cream. They are all starting to walk and eyes have opened. Thanks..


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## Jax08

Since the mother is just a baby herself, at 12 months, how is she doing?


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## chicagojosh

kinda looks like a siberian husky at the moment...


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## maddog1371

@ Jax08-The mother is really doing a good job of taking care of them, and for her she is doing well.


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## LaRen616

chicagojosh said:


> kinda looks like a siberian husky at the moment...


I think it looks like a Badger


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## DanielleOttoMom

Looks like a husky pup?? Not sure....


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## JonnyRico

LaRen616 said:


> I think it looks like a Badger


:laugh:


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## chicagojosh

DanielleOttoMom said:


> Looks like a husky pup?? Not sure....


mostly white muzzle, white over the eyes. there are def similairities


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## maddog1371

Thanks everyone on the info, not sure if yall can tell from this picture, but looking at him, around his muzzle a light tan color is starting to come in.


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## WVGSD

*newborn puppy - coat color?*

Black and Cream, perhaps?

Shannon


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## elisabeth_00117

I was thinking Husky as well.. or atleast a hight mix.


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## Jax's Mom

Husky mix would have been my guess as well.


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## Castlemaid

Methinks another dog got to your female while she was in heat - a female can be impregnated by two sires and carry pups from each.


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## Xeph

I agree, that doesn't look pure GSD. Cute, but not 100% shepherd


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## liv

I would be curious to see what the rest of the litter looks like (read: shamelessly begging to see more puppies!!! ) He does look like a mix to me, but I am certainly no expert, especially when WGSDs are involved!


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## jakeandrenee

laren616 said:


> i think it looks like a badger


lmao!!!!


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## BowWowMeow

That is a very cute puppy. I did think it was a husky mix. Are your dogs the parents?


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## maddog1371

Thats a negative on some other dog being with her, our male is the only one thats stepped foot inside our backyard.


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## jakeandrenee

Are you sure your bitch and male are PB?


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## Castlemaid

Was this an accidental litter, or did you plan the breeding?


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## ZAYDA

Will be interesting cuz GSD's usually always lighten up unless they are sables


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## JakodaCD OA

cute but I think it looks more huskiesh as well. But then again, I guess it's always possible with a black/white breeding to possibly get the unusual markings? 

What do the other puppies look like? The parents are rather young, they are puppies having puppies


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## maddog1371

@bowwow-yes my dogs are the parents.
Ill post up pics on the rest of the litter -6 males,and 2 females.
The female yes is a pb, we had her since she was a pup. The male I had got him from a man that could no longer take care of him, so I really dont know his background for sure.


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## jakeandrenee

Why did this litter happen? Was it planned?


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## vat

He is a cutie no matter what he is. I am glad to hear mom is doing well.


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## JakodaCD OA

would love to see the others , and I agree he is a cutie, and DOES look like a badger


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## maddog1371

Males


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## WarrantsWifey

maddog1371 said:


> Males


Oh those look sable, pretty pups!!


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## maddog1371

2 males, 1 female


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## maddog1371

Female on the left and male on right


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## liv

VERY interesting coloring on those puppies! They are sure super cute :wub:


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## Emoore

Your puppies are very cute, however; I do not think they are pure German Shepherds. Either another dog got to your female or your male has something else in his background.


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## WarrantsWifey

Those lighter puppies are unique. Pretty but hard to really tell what they are this little!!


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## Jax08

They can't be purebred. Those two puppies look sable. The one parent is black and tan and the other is white. No way they could have sable puppies to my understanding. Doesn't one parent have to be sable?


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## bunchoberrys

Puppies!! :wub: Whatever the case, they are adorable. They look like that some can be husky and some can be shepherd. Interesting. Hope you post more pics as they get older.


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## RubyTuesday

> Doesn't one parent have to be sable?


No. A white GS can carry the sable gene but it's masked. Pups who inherit this gene will express it if they don't get a copy of the masking gene from both parents. A white GS with the gene for sable might also have a gene for black & tan or black rather than being homozygous for sable. Pups from the litter might be those colors as well as sable, depending on what's inherited from the other parent. Thoroughly knowing the family history of such dogs is useful, but it doesn't appear that would be possible with this guy.


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## Jax08

Thank You RubyTuesday. The white gene is a masking gene, correct? That's why a sable from a white is possible?


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## RubyTuesday

Yes, it is, at least in GS. I'm not certain it's the same with other breeds.


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## KatieStanley

These are precious lil puppies...please make sure they go to loving homes and then fix one or both of your adults. There are enough unwanted dogs in this world. I know this first hand, as I am fostering one. Again, they are very cute and it looks like you got quite the mix of colors. Did you intentionally breed your dogs? Rather than selling them, you might be able to contact a GSD rescue to help you with placing those eight little rascals- this would help ensure them loving homes.


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## VaBeachFamily

Well, I for one hope that you continue to post pictures until they are old enough to leave... I can't WAIT to see what they end up looking like as time goes by, especially the blueish one, and those cream colored babies!


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## maddog1371

I will for sure do that, Ill post up pictures once they hit their one month.


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## Chris Wild

Looks like this litter had 2 sires. The black and tan pups and sable pups appear to be PB GSDs. And yes, sable can occur from a white to black/tan breeding since white is a masking gene and can mask the sable.

But pups with all the white markings, especially one being black and white and 2 red or fawn and white, I would bet had a husky sire.

DNA testing would tell parentage for sure, but to me looks like you've got a litter of part PB GSDs and part GSD/husky mutts.


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## shannonrae

I think we are jumping the gun claiming two sires. It is difficult to tell for sure what breed a pup is until it is older. Newborn pups all look very similar, no matter what the breed.


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## maddog1371

@Chris Wild- What would be the quickest way to find out, as far as Dna testing , one that can give results the quickest and give accurate information.


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## Chris Wild

shannonrae said:


> I think we are jumping the gun claiming two sires. It is difficult to tell for sure what breed a pup is until it is older. Newborn pups all look very similar, no matter what the breed.


Actually, no, newborn pups do not all look alike. Particularly not to people who have seen a lot of newborn pups, and therefore know what is normal for pups of this age and breed and what is not. The colors are really a dead give away. PB GSD pups of any color do NOT have the colors and markings of some of these pups. 



maddog1371 said:


> @Chris Wild- What would be the quickest way to find out, as far as Dna testing , one that can give results the quickest and give accurate information.


AKC is the one I'm most familiar with, but I'm sure there are other companies that will do parentage DNA. You would need to collect DNA on the sire, and on the pups (at least those that are in question) and send it in for analysis. They will then compare the two and report back on whether or not it is possible for your male to be the sire of those pups.


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## KLCecil

I have to agree with Chris, when I first saw the "odd colored"pups first thing popped into my head was Malamute or husky pups.


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## liv

maddog1371 said:


> @Chris Wild- What would be the quickest way to find out, as far as Dna testing , one that can give results the quickest and give accurate information.


You've probably looked this up already, but here are the links to a few companies, and it sounds like you can generally get results within 5-10 days...

Canine DNA Parentage Testing | Dog Paternity Test

Animal DNA Laboratory -> Dog Parentage (Dam, Sire, Offspring) Testing

MetaMorphix Inc. [Products> Canine Parentage Verification and Identification]


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## BowWowMeow

But if the male isn't pb (say, for example, he has a little husky in him) it is also possible to get a litter like that, right? Because the OP does not know if the male is pb and he looks like he could have a little husky in him. Unless you're dealing with sires and dams of known pb parentage, genetics is full of surprises! 


From working in rescue I have seen some combos come out looking like nothing you'd expect. For example my Kai had a brother who you would swear is a pb gsd (Kai's mom was a gsd and dad was unknown) but the other pups all looked clearly mixed.

I have seen other dogs whose mothers were a known pb and father unknown and they looked nothing at all like their pb mother. Right now there is a litter of pups posted on the other board who look like boxers. Their mother is a rescue and is a pb siberian husky but those pups sure don't look husky and if the mother wasn't right there I think most people would swear they don't have husky in them.


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## BowWowMeow

Also, no matter what the parents are I hope you will be very careful in placing these pups and get advice from both breeders and people who work in rescue on applications, checking references and purchase or adoption contracts. 

And I hope you will do health testing on your dogs once they are old enough so that you can let the puppies' families know if there are any problems.


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## martemchik

Are the parents AKC certified? That would help clear things up. And is this two sire thing a joke or actually possible with dogs?


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## shannonrae

Chris Wild said:


> Actually, no, newborn pups do not all look alike. Particularly not to people who have seen a lot of newborn pups, and therefore know what is normal for pups of this age and breed and what is not. The colors are really a dead give away. PB GSD pups of any color do NOT have the colors and markings of some of these pups.


I am willing to bet I have seen as many newborn puppies of different breeds as anyone else here. And for the first couple of weeks they look very similar.

I may be more inclined to agree I have never seen a GSD with that coloring. But he pups have plenty of time to change and grow . . .


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## KLCecil

A dog or cat can have many different sires in just one litter, it is not a joke.


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## GSD_Xander

LaRen616 said:


> I think it looks like a Badger


LOL It kind of does 




KLCecil said:


> A dog or cat can have many different sires in just one litter, it is not a joke.


Yep, definitely true. Humans can too - it's extremely rare but it can happen. 

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/150463.php

=====

As for the puppies my first thought was husky too. Hard to say - they're adorable though! I would LOVE to see more photos as they get older


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## bocron

My guess is that the sire of the litter is a mix, probably husky like most have guessed, or something along those lines. Do a DNA test on him.


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## maddog1371

Hi everyone, here are some updated photos on my pupps!!..They are currently 5 weeks.


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## LaRen616

What an adorable ball of fluff!!!



Is this the same puppy as the one that looked like a little badger?


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## maddog1371

Thank you..Ive decided to keep him.So excited too see them grow.
Yes it is. That is the same pup.


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## Lmilr

They are beautiful!!! Just want to snuggle them like crazy.
You'll definetly have to keep us posted on 'the badger' he's really cool looking.


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## LaRen616

maddog1371 said:


> Thank you..Ive decided to keep him.So excited too see them grow.
> Yes it is. That is the same pup.


He is so dang cute! You should name him Badger, that would be adorable! :wub:


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## GSDBESTK9

Those pups are definitely mixed not purebred.


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## maddog1371

LaRen616 said:


> He is so dang cute! You should name him Badger, that would be adorable! :wub:


 Nope, Im going to go with "Zeus".=)


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## LaRen616

maddog1371 said:


> Nope, Im going to go with "Zeus".=)


That's cute too!


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## 1sttimeforgsd

Your puppies are adorable no matter what their breed is! :wub:


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## mroutdoorsman

I agree that they are for sure mixed. Either the sire is a mix or two sires were involved in the litter but even the sables look a little mixed.


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## selzer

I am guessing two sires too, because some of them definitely do look pure, and some definitely look mixed. 

Does anyone know what panda shepherds look like when they are a few weeks old?


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## WarrantsWifey

Keep us updated on Zeus!! He is a cutie!!


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## DharmasMom

Piddlepoo!!! I can't see the pics!! Will someone be so kind as to repost them so I can oooohhh and aaahhh over them tooo???


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## JustMeLeslie

Do you have homes for the others or are you keeping them all?


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## Whiteshepherds

LaRen616 said:


> What an adorable ball of fluff!!!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...d/5355d1294328281-new-born-puppy-100_1169.jpg


He's do darn cute! Can't wait to see what he looks like as he grows!


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## VaBeachFamily

I didn't ever see this post updated, .... I love the puppies.. those sables look purebred, don't see any pics of the black/tan ones tho... any more new pics?


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## Puppy

Cute!


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## maddog1371

bocron said:


> My guess is that the sire of the litter is a mix, probably husky like most have guessed, or something along those lines. Do a DNA test on him.


Just recieved the DNA results back on the father!!


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## Rerun

A real DNA test tests the pup and sire (since you obviously know who mom is) and determines if that male is the sire of that pup.

The other DNA tests have been proved to be frequently inaccurate.


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## JustMeLeslie

How are the pups? All doing well? Any new pics? I am fond of the light colored two.


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## BlackthornGSD

Interesting to see the sire's DNA results. I suppose, since he is white, that he may very well have the white masking gene--and you just don't know it because it is white over white. 

It's very, very seldom seen in GSDs today--wonder if it's linked with the white gene or just coinciding.

Please do share pics of your pups as they continue to grow up!


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## Blazings

chicagojosh said:


> kinda looks like a siberian husky at the moment...


 I was thinking exactly the same


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## Chris Wild

Rerun said:


> A real DNA test tests the pup and sire (since you obviously know who mom is) and determines if that male is the sire of that pup.
> 
> The other DNA tests have been proved to be frequently inaccurate.


Agree. Have the husky looking pups been DNA tested to see if their sire really is who you think it is? That is the main thing that should be done as far as DNA testing goes. Looking at the pics of this litter, I still suspect 2 sires.


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## robinhuerta

Chris....
I have seen another kennel on the PDB (a while ago)..post alitter of puppies that look much the same.
They have Whites, Blues, Pandas, Sables, Blacks, B&T, Red & Blue Sable(?), and a list of other advertised "rare" colors & dilutes.
Their puppies look like Husky mixes too.
I wonder if breeding the so called "rare" colors within the pedigree and lineage.....these colors & types are coming forward in the genes..?


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## Chris Wild

Robin,

I suppose it's possible that some throwback colors, or just plain old mutations like the Panda, could be cropping up. But personally, I'm an Occam's Razor sort of person and my first thought is not PB. So when faced with a pup that is not of any recognizable GSD color, regardless of the breeder (and that would include some big kennel specializing in rare this and that), I'd want DNA proof of parentage and that it's PB before I'd believe it's some throwback or mutation.


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## carmspack

Many "whites" are not in fact white but are actually any other colour variety , with POOR pigment -- paling -- . The "white" dog was described as mostly white with cream , which suggests that he may be a very faded black and tan . 

Linda Shaw has written quite a bit on colour Illustrated Standard of the German Shepherd Dog, COLOR & PIGMENT

Interesting to see here that what the german show lines (and the pet buying public) love and encourage is actually a fading pigment ---- see the black and red illustration

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## maddog1371

JustMeLeslie said:


> How are the pups? All doing well? Any new pics? I am fond of the light colored two.


The puppies are doing very well and growing!!. I took in Zeus yesterday to the vet for his set of shoots, he currently weights 17 lbs at 8 weeks today, and is in good condition and healthy which is my primary concern. 
Now as far as testing goes, would yall suggest getting the Mother tested, or getting the puppy tested?. Thanks everyone for their input


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## RogueRed26

I would say the puppy, since it would pretty much kill two birds with one stone.


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## Chris Wild

The DNA tests for checking what breeds a dog is are notoriously inaccurate.

The biggest question I see is whether the male GSD assumed to be the sire is actually the sire of the non-GSD looking pups, or if the litter had 2 sires.

The only way to determine that, and unlike the breed tests it is 100% accurate, is to have the sire DNA profiled and the questionable puppies DNA profiled. That will answer quite easily once and for all if the assumed sire is actually the sire of the pups.


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## jaggirl47

Some helpful links for you:

VetGen: Veterinary Genetic Services - Canine - List of Services - Factor VII

American Kennel Club - DNA Parentage Evaluation Service


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## bruce23

I saw those pups for sale on Craigslist!


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## onyx'girl

for sale or a "re-homing fee"


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## bruce23

http://http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/pet/2200076591.html


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## GSD_Xander

bruce23 said:


> http://http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/pet/2200076591.html


That one didn't work...here ya go 

They're cute little things. 

German Shepherd puppies


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## spiritsmom

Craigslist, seriously? 

How much screening will even be done on people that respond to that ad? 

Will you be ensuring that the puppies go out on spay/neuter contracts or will you just be leaving that up to the new owners as to whether they alter or not?


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## DeeMcB

Cracking open a beer to watch this unfold.....


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## Jessiewessie99

And being let home at 6 weeks old?

Oy vey.


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## JustMeLeslie

I wonder what happened to the others because I thought there were 8 all together? I know one is being kept. 2 listed so that leaves 5?


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## sitstay

Sire "may be a slight mix, we are waiting for the DNA results to come back". So despite how many times it has been pointed out that the "DNA results" they have do not prove anything about the puppies in question, I am sure the seller will wave them around for any uneducated buyer and sell the puppies as if they were purebred.

It is stuff like this that makes so many of us pull our hair out by the hand full and froth at the mouth when most forum members talk about their "breeding". Poor puppies.
Sheilah


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## bruce23

I saw the others but they must have already been sold.


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## emsoskar

GSD_Xander said:


> German Shepherd puppies



At least the "breeder" got the spelling right.....


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## Kris10

bruce23 said:


> I saw the others but they must have already been sold.


Well you know how these things happen. The owners just love their dog and want one just like them, and they have a few relatives that would just love one of the babies...but you can't always have a perfect amount. So the rest are given to homes of strangers found on Craigslist. Too young, no less. 
The OP ignored every question posted regarding whether the breeding was intentional, if they had homes lined up, if they were going to test health, etc.


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## valreegrl

Kris10 said:


> Well you know how these things happen. The owners just love their dog and want one just like them, and they have a few relatives that would just love one of the babies...but you can't always have a perfect amount. So the rest are given to homes of strangers found on Craigslist. Too young, no less.
> The OP ignored every question posted regarding whether the breeding was intentional, if they had homes lined up, if they were going to test health, etc.


Exactly! 

This thread from the OP was just fishing for educated answers to make more money. 

Please, OP, spay and neuter your dogs and DNA test costs will be an expense you no longer have to worry about!


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