# Puppy with dark belly



## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

My pup has a slight brownish tinge to her belly. I first noticed it about a week and a half ago. I have been wiping her belly with hydrogen peroxide soaked cotton balls, which are dirty (brown) afterwards. At first I thought it could be pyoderma, but their aren't any red bumps. Perhaps it is a yeast infection? I just started giving her a spoonful of yogurt with her meals to get some more probiotics in her system.

Over the week and a half it has not been getting any worse (perhaps it's even getting slightly better). Some more background: I first started feeding her Blue Wilderness Puppy food but she wasn't doing too well on it; she had runny poop and some discharge in her eyes. I have since switched her over to Canidae Pure Land. Her stool is firming up and the discharge has gone away. But she still has this brownish stuff on her belly. Also, she had her last set of vaccines around the same time I noticed her belly.

Anyone have any experience with this? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

To begin with stop wiping her down with peroxide...and go to a vet. 
If it's yeast overgrowth (which it sounds like) you'll need to discuss some treatment for the underlying issue, not just treat the symptoms.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

msvette2u said:


> To begin with stop wiping her down with peroxide...and go to a vet.


Yes this.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> To begin with stop wiping her down with peroxide...and go to a vet.
> If it's yeast overgrowth (which it sounds like) you'll need to discuss some treatment for the underlying issue, not just treat the symptoms.


My last puppy had allergies which first manifested as a rash on her belly. The vet told me (before she determined it was allergies) that it could be bacterial or yeast and to wipe her with the peroxide... I didn't just pull that out of my butt.

As for treating the underlying issue... that's why I'm giving her yogurt for probiotics. It's my understanding that yeast is caused by an imbalance (lack of probiotic) in the digestive tract. I was hoping someone has had similar issues that could shed some light on this for me.

I'll definitely take her to a vet if things don't get better. I wanted to first see if switching foods helped. And I thought asking here was a good first step especially if I got some responses saying "oh that sounds like such and such... this is what worked for me..."


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Why don't you take her to a vet just to be sure that it's allergies? Some symptoms can be signs to many different things. If you're trying to treat for one thing, and it's something else, all that 'treatment' was for nothing, while the actual issue gets worse.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Well, I am sorry if I offended you. 
Our vets have never told us to rub peroxide on our dogs for any reason, and the constant dampness will feed the yeast. 
Yogurt cannot hurt but I don't know as it's going to help.
The sooner you can get the dog to the vet (unless finances are an issue for you) the quicker you can get it cleared up. You are going to create a chronic issue by home-treating at this point with no idea why she's yeasty (if that is even what it is).


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

PS. Peroxide would not be my first choice for yeast, there's far more effective things to use, and we have a dog rescue and have gotten in many skin issues - the 1st stop is always the vet, to at least get a diagnosis.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> PS. Peroxide would not be my first choice for yeast, there's far more effective things to use, and we have a dog rescue and have gotten in many skin issues - the 1st stop is always the vet, to at least *get a diagnosis.*


Had to emphasize....


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> Had to emphasize....


Thanks, I can read. No need to be rude.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Well, I am sorry if I offended you.
> Our vets have never told us to rub peroxide on our dogs for any reason, and the constant dampness will feed the yeast.
> Yogurt cannot hurt but I don't know as it's going to help.
> The sooner you can get the dog to the vet (unless finances are an issue for you) the quicker you can get it cleared up. You are going to create a chronic issue by home-treating at this point with no idea why she's yeasty (if that is even what it is).


Peroxide evaporates very quickly... her belly is far from constantly damp. I apply it once per day. That being said, I'll take her to the vet to get it checked out. I don't think it is anything serious at all... had she shown any signs of being ill I would have taken her by now.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Does that not dry out the area? If it's a rash, I would imagine the peroxide to irritate the area and make it worse, if anything....


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

PS. I hesitated to take her right away because I didn't want another vet to quickly diagnose allergies again and pressure me to feed her some hypoallergenic food (with a first ingredient of brewers rice). I found the vet to be increasingly unhelpful despite the fact that she continued to bill me for her "diagnoses."

Needless to say, I am going to a new vet now; hopefully a better one.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> Does that not dry out the area? If it's a rash, I would imagine the peroxide to irritate the area and make it worse, if anything....


Maybe, I'm not sure, this is what a vet suggested to me. Though, I was always under the impression (for humans at least) that the best way to treat a rash is to dry it out (think calamine lotion).

But, I don't think this is a rash.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Peroxide is very drying which can set up for other problems .

Even if it is allergies, probiotics are recommended , however yogurt is really inadequate for this.

Make sure the dog is getting sufficient essential fatty acids.

Sulfur such as MSM in the diet is helpful.

If it is yeast a shampoo with an anti fungal , Selsun Blue xStrong , or Head and Shoulders will treat the symptom.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Can't vets run allergy tests to see what a dog is allergic to? (Sincere question). That way you know what to look for and avoid on a food label.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

carmspack said:


> Peroxide is very drying which can set up for other problems .
> 
> Even if it is allergies, probiotics are recommended , however yogurt is really inadequate for this.
> 
> ...


Thanks.

I am feeding her Canidae Pure Land now which according to the bag has essential fatty acids. Not sure about the sulfur. I'll see what the vet says about her belly before buying the shampoo.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> Can't vets run allergy tests to see what a dog is allergic to? (Sincere question). That way you know what to look for and avoid on a food label.


Not according to my previous vet. (I think she is wrong... though the test is probably cost prohibitive)

When I mentioned allergies I was referring to my previous puppy. I do not think this girl has allergies. The symptoms are very different.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

EFA's don't survive processing . They are sensitive to heat, oxygen, light exposure. They may put them in and there I would question "what" , is it omega 3 , or 6 .


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

carmspack said:


> EFA's don't survive processing . They are sensitive to heat, oxygen, light exposure. They may put them in and there I would question "what" , is it omega 3 , or 6 .


They claim both 3 and 6. How do you get EFA's to your dogs? Should I give her fish oil supps?


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

TheActuary said:


> Maybe, I'm not sure, this is what a vet suggested to me. Though, I was always under the impression (for humans at least) that the best way to treat a rash is to dry it out (think calamine lotion).
> 
> But, I don't think this is a rash.


When I was a young girl, I use to get posion ivy bad. My mom would rub calamine on it and the next day it would be 100x's worse. I would always end up in the hospital getting a shot. It would completely cover my whole body, eyes, mouth, etc. It was awful. When I became an adult, I got poison ivy again. Self medicated and the same results happened. Ended up in the hospital. Finally got a specialist. Come to find out........I was allergic to calamine. That pink medication was actually making my poison ivy become worse each and every time. 

Skin issues in dogs can go from bad to worse very fast. It could be something simple....or something that is making it worse. 

Good luck and I hope you post back and tell us what the vet says it is.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

Ok so I called the vet this morning. She told me to keep doing what I am doing. She said to clean her belly with alcohol (peroxide is fine too) and to keep giving her yogurt. It doesn't worry her since it isn't getting worse but if it starts to spread I should bring her in.

You all do have me nervous now tho... I guess I'll give it until the end of the week to see if it improves.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

jetscarbie said:


> When I was a young girl, I use to get posion ivy bad. My mom would rub calamine on it and the next day it would be 100x's worse. I would always end up in the hospital getting a shot. It would completely cover my whole body, eyes, mouth, etc. It was awful. When I became an adult, I got poison ivy again. Self medicated and the same results happened. Ended up in the hospital. Finally got a specialist. Come to find out........I was allergic to calamine. That pink medication was actually making my poison ivy become worse each and every time.
> 
> Skin issues in dogs can go from bad to worse very fast. It could be something simple....or something that is making it worse.
> 
> Good luck and I hope you post back and tell us what the vet says it is.


Thanks for your post. The thing is that her skin is definitely not getting any worse. To me it looks to be getting better, but I'll keep an eye on it.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Peroxide doesn't evaporate like alcohol but the vet suggesting alcohol concerns me. 
It can be absorbed into the bloodstream and cause serious health issues. 

Where do you live that your vet's best suggestion for possible yeast infection is peroxide or alcohol?? As mentioned, we have a rescue and we've had yeasty dogs come in, allergic dogs too (that became yeasty as a result) and alcohol or peroxide is _not_ gonna fix that.
There's products made specifically for yeast and the above is not them.
Look up Triz-Edta, or any shampoo or rinse with miconazole in it. Any athlete's foot cream (or vaginal yeast cream) is going to beat alcohol and peroxide any day.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

I've recently (this past summer) moved to Louisville, KY. I am thinking that since her skin hasn't gotten worse they aren't all that worried. Though I am beginning to lose confidence in the vet based on your post. I'll keep a close eye on her this week and bring her in if it doesn't get better.

I'll look up your suggestions also, thanks.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Can you post a picture?


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I like Zymox products.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Zymox-Enzamatic-Shampoo-12-oz/dp/B00076NTJG[/ame]


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

Sure, I'll try to post a picture when I get home from work this evening. It might be tough to get her to hold still tho


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

TheActuary said:


> Sure, I'll try to post a picture when I get home from work this evening. It might be tough to get her to hold still tho


Cool. I think it will help to actually see what your talking about. The visual I have maybe way different that someone else's. Good luck with the wiggle worm & getting a pic!


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

Here are some pics. These were the best I could do... she was not a fan of having her belly photographed!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Hm. On the pic on the right I see a bit of darkness but on the left photo just by her vulva?? Is that what it is?
If so, that's actually somewhat normal and you probably shouldn't mess with it like that.
Simple bathing will keep that area clean plus she will as well.
If she's not licking herself excessively it's probably okay.

If her actual tummy skin is becoming dark then it's really time to get her in, because that indicates a chronic problem and should be addressed by a vet (if they know what to do, I'm wondering after the replies you've gotten).


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

My dogs fur is darker like that where his testicles used to be. It's normal for him...But if color is coming off on a rag, I don't think that is normal.

In my male, it is his coat color. If I wipe with a wet rag, the rag won't be stained.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Hm. On the pic on the right I see a bit of darkness but on the left photo just by her vulva?? Is that what it is?
> If so, that's actually somewhat normal and you probably shouldn't mess with it like that.
> Simple bathing will keep that area clean plus she will as well.
> If she's not licking herself excessively it's probably okay.
> ...


No, I'm not refering to the area around her vulva... it's her entire belly. It's hard to see from the pictures as it's fairly faint. I do believe it is getting better tho, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on it.

Maybe I am just overly worried about her. After losing my last pup at 5 months, it's hard not to be.

Were you expecting it to be much worse? You seemed a bit harsh in the way you suggested I see a vet. I am not one to spare any expense when it comes to this puppy... you should see her "toy box." =p The reason I didn't go right away is because it's faint, she is completely normal otherwise, and I figured it was something quite common in puppies (my last vet said belly yeast infections (if she even has one) on puppies is very common and nothing to be alarmed about).


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Find a vet who wants to use more than peroxide or alcohol.
Skin issues are incredibly complex. The skin is the largest organ in the body.
There's quite a few things it could be, but what jumps to mind is chronic irritation and putting those things on it are not going to help.
Your dog will likely need oral meds as well as topicals.
The skin darkening is increased pigment due to the irritation - the skin is trying to protect itself by dumping pigment into the area.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

It is not pigment... as I mentioned before it wipes onto the cotton balls like dirt. You can't wipe off skin pigmentation.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Have you actually bathed her? 
If not, try doing so with a shampoo containing an antifungal. Or chlorhexadine.
Nizoral (you can find at Walmart in the dandruff section) is great and has a good anti-fungal in it.

BTW, instead of having people who are not veterinarians try to diagnose your dog with photos that we can barely see, it would be a better idea to take her in to the vet.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

I never asked anyone for a diagnosis; I asked if anyone had similar experiences.

I only posted the pictures because someone asked me to (in part because I knew I wouldn't be able to get a good shot).

As I've previously mentioned, I called the vet and it was recommended that I continue with the peroxide and yogurt unless she gets worse. (That makes two independent vets to recommend peroxide). And as also previously mentioned, I have no problems with taking her to the vet if I need to... not sure why you keep repeating yourself.

I appreciate you trying to help... but really, there is no need to be so rude. And you could use a little tact.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

Update: Her belly was not changing much but I noticed a spot on her chin developing. It is basically a little bald spot with a mild rash... tho no itching. So I took her to a vet this past week to get her checked out.

Turns out her chin and belly are unrelated. The vet said the brown on her belly is caused by her urine (which has a different pH than her skin). Puppies are not always good about keeping themselves clean down there. He told me to get some baby wipes and keep her clean of urine down there after bathroom breaks.

He did a scrap of her chin. She has demodectic mites, which, while commonly found on all dogs, can sometimes gain the upper hand in a puppy. He prescribed Ivermectin (enough for about 80 days) and instructed that I give her 1.5 cc's per day until the bottle runs out.

Anyone have experience with demodicosis? I've done some reading and apparently 90% of localized cases work themselves out (not true of generalized cases). I suppose he thinks she has the generalized form hence the medicine. I am a little bit nervous about giving her Ivermectin. He seems to think this was the best treatment tho.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Um...what type ivermectin? Is it the cattle kind??
1.5 is enough for a 150 lb. dog, if so.
Localized demodex doesn't need the "big guns" of ivermectin. 
Did you test for the genetic pattern that makes ivermectin toxic to dogs??
Genetic Testing at the College of Veterinary Medicine


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

Sorry I left out the part about him mixing the ivermectin with a liquid vitamin to make it more palatable.

No she has not been tested for any sensitivity. He said that in his experience it has been a very effective treatment.

I think I won't give her any tomorrow and call him on Monday to express my concern. I'm not sure what the concentration of ivermectin to liquid vitamin is... maybe it's a low dose. 

I didn't know anything about the medicine until I read the information he gave me and searched online when I got home. I am surprised he didn't recommend a lower dose for a period of time to watch for any mild reactions (unless her dose is already low, maybe?). It is $87 worth (for a period of 80 days)... not sure if that gives you any insight on the strength or not.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Demodectic Mange
I'd just ask him what the dosage is - if it's 1% cattle ivermectin/Ivomec, just as an example of the strength, 1cc is enough for a 100lb. dog.
That's why I'm a bit...taken aback by using 1.5 cc for a puppy.
FTR, you can do it yourself if she doesn't carry the gene and if she's had a dose and is still fine, she probably doesn't. But I'm curious why he'd recommend Ivermectin and not, goodwinol ointment which is great for localized demodex. 

It is a bit odd for girl puppies to get urine clear up on their bellies...


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

When he looked at her he said that he only noticed the brown on the lower part of her belly around her vulva. She gets some urine on the surrounding hair and it gets a little bit matted. Maybe I should trim it...

Thanks for the link... that is actually the same exact thing he printed out to give me.

Yea the 1.5cc is including a liquid vitamin... he was in the back figuring out the correct amount to mix in. He said it makes it easier to dose and makes it taste better to the dog. He gave her a dose before we left and she has been fine all day.

He noticed some bumps on her vulva and said that the medicine should clear that up... so I guess he thinks it isn't localized.


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## TheActuary (Dec 17, 2011)

I've been giving her a probiotic from the pet store also to improve her immune system.

Any other supplements you would recommend to boost the immune system? I've read that fish oils are good... are there special fish oils for dogs or do you just give them the same kind that you get at GNC?

I wonder if I could find a hollistic vet in louisville... time to do some googling.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Grizzly salmon oil. It is for dogs and has a pump. I like Pet Meds | Dog Supplies | Pet Supplies | Pet Products | Pet Supply 
Missing Link is what I like for a supplement.

Most dogs tolerate ivermectin well in the recommended dosages. It's always used off-label in dogs though, leaving the correct dosages a bit subjective and demodex requires a bit higher dosage but I'd still really want to know for my own self if it was my dog.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I have personal experience with treating demodex. My dog Rafi came with it when I adopted him and had one reoccurrence. I did not use ivermectin and instead used topical treatments (holistic) and boosted him immune system. He recovered fully and that was the end of it. 

His thread is here: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...6105-demodectic-mange-natural-treatments.html


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