# It can happen even if you are careful



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

This morning I was returning from the post office, our normal morning walk, and just as I got to my corner a little girl who lives across the street from us came around the corner with their little mixed breed small poodle sized dog on a long leash. The dogs met face to face before I could even move. Raina was on a short leash because we usually stop at the corner to look for traffic but the fact that the little dog was on a long leash allowed it to walk right into Raina's face. 

I was surprised by the little dog as I did not see it coming. I reacted quickly, throwing my mail on the ground and using both hands to separate the dogs which at this point, meant getting Raina to drop the little dog out of her mouth. The mom came out and looked over the little dog, who I found out is named Cookie, and told me he was okay. I brought Raina home and then went back to their house to make sure. I told them if there was any problem with Cookie let me know and she told me not to worry she was sure Cookie was okay just shaken up. 

The dad came over a little bit ago to tell me he had taken Cookie to the vet to check over. They found a bite mark by his penis (ouch) but said that it wasn't serious, did not require stitches and he would be fine. Now that I know Cookie will be okay I'm glad and I did offer to pay the vet bill but the Dad said it wasn't necessary as there was nothing wrong with the dog. 

My point in all this is that even when you are careful things can happen. I try to watch like a hawk for little dogs on long lines because I know this is a trigger for Raina - the long lines make her think the dog is loose. I'm really upset the little girl had to see this, but I do hope it makes her more aware when she is walking their dog as I have seen her walk it down the middle of the road. I don't blame her -she is a little girl about 7 or 8. I apologized to her father if she was scared and told him I have a daughter and wouldn't want her to have to witness such a thing. He was understanding and we are good neighbors still but this really shook me up. My dog was on a leash and I still could not stop the little dog from basically running into her mouth. I don't know what I could have done to stop it from happening. I know it must have been horrifying for the little girl. 

I'm just shook up a little knowing how much worse it could have been if Raina wasn't on a short leash and they really had a chance to go at it. Please, everyone, expect the unexpected when out walking. I never once thought this would happen as I thought I was always careful. :headbang:


----------



## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

I have issue with children walking dogs without adult supervision. Even little dogs need a firm hand and need to be controlled at all times. Kids mean well, but their minds are not primed for such non-stop responsibility. By all means let a child walk a dog, but that lead better be within a seconds reach, again this is my opinion. Kids always wanted to walk Banjo, and he was a SAINT on lead. Tractable and it was infrequent when any tension was on the lead(I spoiled him with a flexi so he could could go bush-diving for good smells). However a 90 pound GSD attached to a 80 pound kid can be the makings for a whole heap of trouble. I let kids hold the lead and made sure I shadowed the kid, Banjo knew the score and I never had issue, but I was within quick grabbing distance at any given moment.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

You ARE careful. We just can't cover every base every day. Crap happens.

I can attest that humans (me in the case that follows) don't always have their wits about them in cases of the unexpected -- However, This is where "Leave It!" comes in handy. One morning several years ago I was walking the late Barker Sisters. I think it was a larger yorkie that came running up off lead barking. Square in Barker the Younger's face. She picked it up and shook it - Once I remembered the phrase "Leave It!" she dropped him. (see above reference to humans not having their wits about them at all times - "No!" was meaningless in this case - "Leave It!" was the meaningful phrase.) His bathrobed human complete with flip-flops chastised her dog for his lack of sense. I thought she needed the chastisment for lack of sense. However, all was well as far as outcomes of this encounter went. With the exception that Barker the Younger couldn't understand really why she did not get praised for dropping the dog because she had done good indeed yet I was upset.


----------



## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Sorry you had this experience but thankfully there was no physical damage that needed treatment. I think you handled this with grace and empathy. I agree there is no way tp predict what will happen and sometimes the unforseen appears around the corner.Glad everybody is OK.I have to agree / Brembo about children and dogs and Ill add long leads. I have had too many close calls w/ Lucky and a few agressive small dog on what appeared to be 10 ft leads. Teri you were a great ambassador for GSD parents/owners everywhere.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Truly scarey. I'm glad everything turned out well. Might be an experiance the little girl will remember for the rest of her life. That memory might save this dog's or another dog's life.


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

middleofnowhere said:


> You ARE careful. We just can't cover every base every day. Crap happens.
> 
> I can attest that humans (me in the case that follows) don't always have their wits about them in cases of the unexpected -- However, This is where "Leave It!" comes in handy. One morning several years ago I was walking the late Barker Sisters. I think it was a larger yorkie that came running up off lead barking. Square in Barker the Younger's face. She picked it up and shook it - Once I remembered the phrase "Leave It!" she dropped him. (see above reference to humans not having their wits about them at all times - "No!" was meaningless in this case - "Leave It!" was the meaningful phrase.) His bathrobed human complete with flip-flops chastised her dog for his lack of sense. I thought she needed the chastisment for lack of sense. However, all was well as far as outcomes of this encounter went. With the exception that Barker the Younger couldn't understand really why she did not get praised for dropping the dog because she had done good indeed yet I was upset.


Thank you, and I did use the Leave It! command which probably helped me get her on time before she could really hurt the little dog. I guess we have to live in the world with all kinds but I'm just kicking myself for not seeing it coming sooner. No I don't have ex-ray vision and couldn't see through the giant century plant the little dog was behind but still kicking myself.


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Sorry you had this experience but thankfully there was no physical damage that needed treatment. I think you handled this with grace and empathy. I agree there is no way tp predict what will happen and sometimes the unforseen appears around the corner.Glad everybody is OK.I have to agree / Brembo about children and dogs and Ill add long leads. I have had too many close calls w/ Lucky and a few agressive small dog on what appeared to be 10 ft leads. Teri you were a great ambassador for GSD parents/owners everywhere.


Thank you but I just wish these things didn't have to happen at all. My husband had spoken to the Dad at some earlier point that he should watch his daughter when she walks the dog because he saw her in the middle of the road as well and didn't want her to get hurt.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Sorry it happened, but glad there was no serious injury. I'm not sure it would help in your situation, but I switch sides frequently when we walk. When I approach a blind left turn, I put my dog on the right to keep me positioned in between whatever may be coming the other way. I'm hearing impaired so maybe I'm just a bit more paranoid about it, IDK. I'm sure the kid will be fine, they are pretty resilient, sounds like she has good parents.


----------



## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

if your dog has severe dog aggression issues i'd just muzzle him during walks. easy solution. doesnt matter how unexpected it is or if the dog is leashed or unleashed, dont even give your dog an opportunity to bite.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Use a basket muzzle when you walk. There will be less stress on everyone, and no little child will need to see their dog being pulled from another dog's mouth. 

Personally, I think it is up to the owners of aggressive dogs, to manage them, and not to ensure every child is accompanied by an adult regardless to how their dog behaves.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I think a muzzle would be ok for some neighborhoods or perhaps if you carry some kind of deterrent/protection, but the likelihood of my dog needing to help me defend "us" against multiple dogs is greater than the risk of an off chance encounter. One of my gsds is ok with some dogs, but not all, my other two are pretty solid around other dogs, they all have a good "leave it" too. If a muzzle works for than go for it.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nigel said:


> I think a muzzle would be ok for some neighborhoods or perhaps if you carry some kind of deterrent/protection, but the likelihood of my dog needing to help me defend "us" against multiple dogs is greater than the risk of an off chance encounter. One of my gsds is ok with some dogs, but not all, my other two are pretty solid around other dogs, they all have a good "leave it" too. If a muzzle works for than go for it.


This is simply ridiculous. I'm sorry, but we are dealing with a dog that will not only bark and lunge and act stupid, but will attack another dog. We know this because the dog did it. The owner was unable to stop it from happening, and though she was able to get the poor dog free of her dog, the little kid learned how mean some German Shepherds are, which means the child is more likely to be afraid of German Shepherds, and consequently, more likely to be bitten. 

You can always unmuzzle a dog in a heartbeat, if you need to.

I had a dog that would bark and lunge and act stupid to other dogs. My sister and I were walking them. She ran ahead with this dog. I am older, fatter, and slower, so was pulling up the rear with my older female. A poodle rushed off of someone's porch and right into my sister and this reactive dog. 

I about died. Both becuase the poodle was owned by someone I went to disciple classes with, and because my I did not want my sister to see the blood and gore and guts that was likely to happen. In a heartbeat, I was right in the thick of it, with my other dog, and the poodle's owner. 

My reactive dog did not react at all. He was all bark, I guess. Dogs are supposed to make you live longer. It's baloney though. I lost ten years in that half-heartbeat. At least nobody else did.

If I had a dog that I _knew_ would attack, I would muzzle the dog. It simply isn't worth it. And the muzzle isn't stuck like glue. It's not like removing the dog's teeth, or a cat's claws. 

Like crate training, dogs should be accustomed to muzzles. When the vet has to cut away some hair around a wound or something, a muzzle protects the dog from acting out of pain or fear. 

If you neighborhood is so bad that you need a dog to protect itself, than carry something like bear spray or some type of cattle prod or something.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

ali_badboy said:


> Hello everyone, I'm new here. wanted to find out
> Is this a pure bred german shepherd?


Yupp, looks like it, but posting your own thread would probably be the best bet.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

selzer said:


> This is simply ridiculous. I'm sorry, but we are dealing with a dog that will not only bark and lunge and act stupid, but will attack another dog. We know this because the dog did it. The owner was unable to stop it from happening, and though she was able to get the poor dog free of her dog, the little kid learned how mean some German Shepherds are, which means the child is more likely to be afraid of German Shepherds, and consequently, more likely to be bitten.
> 
> You can always unmuzzle a dog in a heartbeat, if you need to.
> 
> ...


I don't know the history of the OPs dogs, only my own. Zoey was attacked several times in class and as she matured it looked like we may end up with a DA dog, didn't happen. We worked with her in classes especially for this behavior and it's helped tremendously. She goes to classes (rally) and does fine with the other dogs. She has been lunged at since in class and looks to me instead of lunging back at the other dog, is she 100% trustable? No way, but I won't put a muzzle on her, that may be fine in your "Mayberry" neighborhood, but not mine, I will not leave my dog vulnerable.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

@selzer, kids are very resilient, I have 5, two were bitten by dogs, my oldest daughter in the face by a yellow lab, no lasting psychological scars. I was bitten as a child by my uncles GSD in the hand that required stitches, still have the scars, now I own 3 of them. Not all people who experience some kind of "traumatic" event with a dog suffer long term effects.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nigel said:


> *I don't know the history of the OPs dogs, only my own*. Zoey was attacked several times in class and as she matured it looked like we may end up with a DA dog, didn't happen. We worked with her in classes especially for this behavior and it's helped tremendously. She goes to classes (rally) and does fine with the other dogs. She has been lunged at since in class and looks to me instead of lunging back at the other dog, is she 100% trustable? No way, but I won't put a muzzle on her, that may be fine in your "Mayberry" neighborhood, but not mine, I will not leave my dog vulnerable.


If you have not read the OP, why are you commenting? 

How can you comment intelligently, if you do not know what it is we are talking about?

The dog had a small dog in its teeth! Come on. The 7 year old at the other end of that leash, just did not need to see her dog get hurt. But what is done is done. The thing is, no one else needs to be in the same position with the OPs dog -- not your dog. We are not talking about your dog. We are talking about a specific dog and handler here. And everything that is needed to be known about the dog was in the OP. 

Furthermore, it is also true that it only takes a fraction of a second to remove a muzzle. Why wouldn't you encourage someone to err on the side of caution?


----------



## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Nigel said:


> I don't know the history of the OPs dogs, only my own. Zoey was attacked several times in class and as she matured it looked like we may end up with a DA dog, didn't happen. We worked with her in classes especially for this behavior and it's helped tremendously. She goes to classes (rally) and does fine with the other dogs. She has been lunged at since in class and looks to me instead of lunging back at the other dog, is she 100% trustable? No way, but I won't put a muzzle on her, that may be fine in your "Mayberry" neighborhood, but not mine, I will not leave my dog vulnerable.


we are all commenting on the op's dog. why did you even bring up your dog? nobody cares if you muzzle your dog or not. so annoying when people must bring up their own dog in EVERY story. nobody cares that your dog has to defend you in your incredibly dangerous neighborhood with danger around every corner with no cops around for miles. if you didnt read the op's post why comment at all?


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I am in agreement that I do have a problem with kids walking dogs unsupervised by adults. 

My thing is, seeing a kid walking a dog, what if another dog *(unleashed and no person around!) decides to start stuff with the kids dog? Who is going to step in and stop that??? 

I've come across a kid walking a dog they couldn't control , with that dog deciding it wanted a piece of mine, if I hadn't been there, or it was some lose random dog, it could have been a real problem. 



To the OP, it's really great that you stepped up to the plate and it sounds like even tho it was not a good situation, everyone was mature about it and no real harm done.


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

boomer11 said:


> if your dog has severe dog aggression issues i'd just muzzle him during walks. easy solution. doesnt matter how unexpected it is or if the dog is leashed or unleashed, dont even give your dog an opportunity to bite.


This is the first time bite. If this was a regular occurrence I wouldn't walk her around other dogs and I would already have a muzzle. This was just a case of running into each other at the corner and the dog literally ran at her. She has some slight issues which we work on with LAT and it has worked.


----------



## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Not really sure why people regale us with the details of an attack, and then balk at the suggestions that will prevent this from happening in the future. Imo, the ONLY thing that *you* could have done (and this is the only way to talk about this situation, because we cannot make every parent walk the dog with their child), is to have your DA dog muzzled until you get better obedience. You can't predict what is around every corner....I was walking a rottie and training focus at a sportsmens warehouse a week ago....walked around a corner and four feet away was a GSD that lite up on my rottie. My rottie gave a little growl back, I corrected, and then made her work through focus with the crazy GSD in sight....my problem with only reacting and accepting the "atta-boy...way to handle this...there's nothing you can do" is that now there is *another * child and probably family out there that can regale the time their little baby was attacked and bit by a GSD...not what this breed needs...and imo, you need to prevent that from happening again. Your dog does more than postures...she bites and shakes...the only way to prevent this from happening again immediately is a muzzle....I would be getting some serious obedience on that dog before I took it anywhere as well....

Nigel....you are telling me that it is more likely that a rabid pack of dogs is going to attack you and you will need your dog's aide rather than walking around a corner and a dog could run up to your dog?? ....mmmhhhmmmm....I see you are in the NW...me too! Trying to picture this barren wasteland that you describe....;-)


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow, I just read several of the later comments. Somehow my dog has become vicious and has a habit of attacking other dogs? I don't know where all this information came from. My dog has some dog aggression issues, she does not randomly attack other dogs. I do not let her. She has never bitten another dog because I am on my toes and won't let it happen. I work LAT as much as possible and was having really good luck until a ran into a jerk that wanted to cuss me out because his dog was in my yard taking a dump. My dog was sitting quietly at my side. After that incident she has been a bit more reactive to stranger's dogs. The dog across the street has a habit of getting out and being loose and barking at our house from the outside. My dog recognizes this and like most GSD's has a good memory. None of this is to make excuses. The incident has happened and been taken care of. The whole reason for my post was to let others know that even when least expected things can happen. Everyone needs to relax on each other. My neighbors and I are fine with everything and there is no problem here.


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

selzer said:


> Personally, I think it is up to the owners of aggressive dogs, to manage them, and not to ensure every child is accompanied by an adult regardless to how their dog behaves.


I never said the father should accompany his daughter to protect her from other dogs. My husband only mentioned that the girl was in the middle of the road a lot and it is dangerous because it is a well traveled road by large semi trucks that bring the mail, not to keep her safe from my dog. We didn't want the little girl to get hit by a car or her dog get hit by a car.


----------



## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

pyratemom said:


> Wow, I just read several of the later comments. Somehow my dog has become vicious and has a habit of attacking other dogs? I don't know where all this information came from. My dog has some dog aggression issues, she does not randomly attack other dogs. I do not let her. She has never bitten another dog because I am on my toes and won't let it happen. I work LAT as much as possible and was having really good luck until a ran into a jerk that wanted to cuss me out because his dog was in my yard taking a dump. My dog was sitting quietly at my side. After that incident she has been a bit more reactive to stranger's dogs. The dog across the street has a habit of getting out and being loose and barking at our house from the outside. My dog recognizes this and like most GSD's has a good memory. None of this is to make excuses. The incident has happened and been taken care of. The whole reason for my post was to let others know that even when least expected things can happen. Everyone needs to relax on each other. My neighbors and I are fine with everything and there is no problem here.


Sorry, but this *is *just a bunch of excuses....It is a big deal, and I don't understand why you want to write it off and not listen to any suggestions that you can do to control it...it can happen again. All those things you listed that you say are making it better, well they aren't working...and this is kind of a wake up call to that, don't you think?? No one is going to listen to someone recount their GSD attacking another dog, and then not be given suggestions to try and prevent it from happening again. It's your dog, do whatever you want, but please don't be one of those owners that thinks because *this time* an animal wasn't maimed or killed, means you can just move on and strike it up as "**** happens".....I'm so sick of excuses for dogs that are aggressive in whatever way. Poodle owner has just as much blame on their shoulders...but I can't tell them anything or suggest anything to them....only one person is here...the one who's dog had the other one in it's mouth....


----------



## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

not to jump on your or anything but the title of the thread is "it can happen even if you're careful" and then in your original post you said "i dont know what else i could have done to prevent this". people then told you what else you could have done and then you suddenly say my dog isnt vicious. it wouldnt have badly injured that little dog. i watch him like a hawk. you also say you dont doesnt bite other dogs because you wont let it happen. didnt it just happen? wasn't the purpose of this thread is to tell people that no matter how careful you are things happen!?!? if your dogs first reaction to another dog is to want to bite it should be muzzled. to me thats pretty cut and dry.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

boomer11 said:


> we are all commenting on the op's dog. why did you even bring up your dog? nobody cares if you muzzle your dog or not. so annoying when people must bring up their own dog in EVERY story. nobody cares that your dog has to defend you in your incredibly dangerous neighborhood with danger around every corner with no cops around for miles. if you didnt read the op's post why comment at all?


When did I ever say anything close this? We have have a decent town with a great police presence, over active imagination perhaps? We do have plenty of careless owners and loose dogs to deal with so I'm not all for the idea of muzzling a dog. 

I've read the OPs story, there is no history of DA mentioned, however if her dog did indeed attack the smaller dog *without any provocation*, they just met at the corner and she snatched the smaller dog up, then yes, a muzzle would be a great idea.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

selzer said:


> If you *have not read the OP, why are you commenting?
> 
> How can you comment intelligently, if you do not know what it is we are talking about?*
> 
> ...


I was referring to the dogs history prior to this incident, which has now been revealed by the OP that she has had DA issues in the past.


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

DaniFani said:


> Sorry, but this *is *just a bunch of excuses....It is a big deal, and I don't understand why you want to write it off and not listen to any suggestions that you can do to control it...it can happen again. All those things you listed that you say are making it better, well they aren't working...and this is kind of a wake up call to that, don't you think?? No one is going to listen to someone recount their GSD attacking another dog, and then not be given suggestions to try and prevent it from happening again. It's your dog, do whatever you want, but please don't be one of those owners that thinks because *this time* an animal wasn't maimed or killed, means you can just move on and strike it up as "**** happens".....I'm so sick of excuses for dogs that are aggressive in whatever way. Poodle owner has just as much blame on their shoulders...but I can't tell them anything or suggest anything to them....only one person is here...the one who's dog had the other one in it's mouth....


I never wrote off any suggestion. I don't know what you are talking about - never said "*** happens" I think you are getting some of the other posts mixed up with what I said. I was upset about what happened, I am working LAT, I don't let my dog run loose. There are no excuses here. My neighbors and I are fine and I will make sure it doesn't happen again. I am not a negligent owner and am not making light of what happened. My dog has been around other dogs for classes, Rally trials, walking the bridge, etc so she is not a dog that goes around attacking other dogs for fun. I do not take it lightly that my dog had another dog in her mouth or I would not have been upset enough to even post the post to remind others that unexpected things happen and to be ready. I'm sorry you took it as me saying I didn't care and stuff just happens for no reason because that is just the opposite of what I meant.


----------



## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

pyrate mom - after reading your story I am so glad we worked really hard to socialized Molly with other dogs. I hope your dog can learn not to be so defensive so you can relax a bit on your walks. We still need to be cautious about certain humans, so we are not 100% carefree. Glad you have understanding neighbors. Yes things can happen unexpectedly, but at least you didn't freeze and taught your dog, leave it.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

pyratemom said:


> I never wrote off any suggestion. I don't know what you are talking about - never said "*** happens" I think you are getting some of the other posts mixed up with what I said. I was upset about what happened, I am working LAT, I don't let my dog run loose. There are no excuses here. My neighbors and I are fine and I will make sure it doesn't happen again. I am not a negligent owner and am not making light of what happened. My dog has been around other dogs for classes, Rally trials, walking the bridge, etc so she is not a dog that goes around attacking other dogs for fun. I do not take it lightly that my dog had another dog in her mouth or I would not have been upset enough to even post the post to remind others that unexpected things happen and to be ready. I'm sorry you took it as me saying I didn't care and stuff just happens for no reason because that is just the opposite of what I meant.


You are not a negligent owner and I've seen enough of your posts to know you are a responsible owner and have it handled. There are some decent suggestions here if you choose to use them. Sorry it happened.


----------



## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Thankfully it wasn't a Rottie on flexi charging around the corner at your dog

Little children should not have that responsibility of walking the dog. An adult should be with. 

If your dog was a loose canon, dislocating your shoulder everytime you saw a dog or taking you off your feet, or loosing control of your dog, then I would think you would have it muzzled.

But if your dog is in control and in a millisecond some dog gets in her face and she reacts defensively or accordingly (per what may be deemed a threat) - they're dogs


----------



## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

I really don't see why so many people jump at muzzling this dog. It is not outwardly aggressive, it does not lunge or try to attack things while on its walk (at least that is not what the OP describe)... what happened here was a case of an unfortunate series of events. Honestly, were I the owner of the GSD that picked up the little poodle I would not have been so friendly with the poodle's owners. My dog was under my control on a short leash, the poodle was not. In many cities leash laws cite specific leash lengths and long leashes are not covered under the law. Additionally, I'm sure legally the child walking the dog would be more at fault because I honestly do not see how such a young child could have full control of a dog, regardless of size/temperament.

On top of all of this, this little dog was not under the control of it's owner, it was on a long line, and it ran blindly around a corner. What would have happened were this dog to have run in front of a car, would you fault the driver of the car?


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I just figured out why a poster mentioned that the my dog bit and was shaking the little dog. When I said the dog was shaken, I meant it was shook up as in nervous, not that Raina had even had a chance to shake her. Sorry for the misunderstanding on that. I do intend to train aggressively and never stop. I do not take any of this lightly.


----------



## Hunter's Dad (Nov 12, 2013)

This scenario is exactly why I want Hunter well socialized with other dogs large and small. I do not allow him to bark at other dogs or give them "that look." His job is not animal control officer. I cannot control his reaction to cats. I will correct him for barking at one, but any face to face meeting would occure on Hunter's home turf and is the result of a cat owner that cares little about his pet.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I'm not sure about the actual turn of events in the OPs case as I was not there but this kind of thing could easily happen with dogs that are not normally dog aggressive or even really dog aggressive. I've seen a trainer with malinois that were ring trained and off leash you could trust that malinois would not go after a dog even if it was fairly nearby and the dog was going after a decoy and ramped up.

If a dog ran up in his face though, especially if it did it aggressively, god help it. There are plenty of dickheaded little dogs out there that do crap that people wouldn't let fly with a larger dog. I've had a lab that is not dog aggressive get charged by snapping loose chihuahuas and totally ignore them, and I've seen him pin small dogs for charging him in my yard. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't fault a dog for taking defensive actions, and if it bit another dog out of defense that's one thing, but if you've got a dog that goes on offense or lunges or who's first thought is to maul on a face to face, then yeah you have a problem and might want to consider muzzling in situations where the dog can encounter that kind of situation.


----------



## Hunter's Dad (Nov 12, 2013)

Baillif said:


> I'm not sure about the actual turn of events in the OPs case as I was not there but this kind of thing could easily happen with dogs that are not normally dog aggressive or even really dog aggressive. I've seen a trainer with malinois that were ring trained and off leash you could trust that malinois would not go after a dog even if it was fairly nearby and the dog was going after a decoy and ramped up.
> 
> If a dog ran up in his face though, especially if it did it aggressively, god help it. There are plenty of dickheaded little dogs out there that do crap that people wouldn't let fly with a larger dog. I've had a lab that is not dog aggressive get charged by snapping loose chihuahuas and totally ignore them, and I've seen him pin small dogs for charging him in my yard.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't fault a dog for taking defensive actions, and if it bit another dog out of defense that's one thing, but if you've got a dog that goes on offense or lunges or who's first thought is to maul on a face to face, then yeah you have a problem and might want to consider muzzling in situations where the dog can encounter that kind of situation.


Great points


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

maybe more socializing and training could have prevented it???
if you have a reactive dog maybe a muzzle could have prevented it???



pyratemom said:


> This morning I was returning from the post office, our normal morning walk, and just as I got to my corner a little girl who lives across the street from us came around the corner with their little mixed breed small poodle sized dog on a long leash. The dogs met face to face before I could even move. Raina was on a short leash because we usually stop at the corner to look for traffic but the fact that the little dog was on a long leash allowed it to walk right into Raina's face. I was surprised by the little dog as I did not see it coming. I reacted quickly, throwing my mail on the ground and using both hands to separate the dogs which at this point, meant getting Raina to drop the little dog out of her mouth. The mom came out and looked over the little dog, who I found out is named Cookie, and told me he was okay. I brought Raina home and then went back to their house to make sure. I told them if there was any problem with Cookie let me know and she told me not to worry she was sure Cookie was okay just shaken up. The dad came over a little bit ago to tell me he had taken Cookie to the vet to check over. They found a bite mark by his penis (ouch) but said that it wasn't serious, did not require stitches and he would be fine. Now that I know Cookie will be okay I'm glad and I did offer to pay the vet bill but the Dad said it wasn't necessary as there was nothing wrong with the dog. My point in all this is that even when you are careful things can happen. I try to watch like a hawk for little dogs on long lines because I know this is a trigger for Raina - the long lines make her think the dog is loose. I'm really upset the little girl had to see this, but I do hope it makes her more aware when she is walking their dog as I have seen her walk it down the middle of the road. I don't blame her -she is a little girl about 7 or 8. I apologized to her father if she was scared and told him I have a daughter and wouldn't want her to have to witness such a thing. He was understanding and we are good neighbors still but this really shook me up. My dog was on a leash and I still could not stop the little dog from basically running into her mouth.
> 
> >>>>> I don't know what I could have done to stop it from
> happening. <<<<<
> ...


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Pyrate'sMom, I don't think you are a negligent owner, and I don't think your dog is a beast, or mean. But I do think that if you feel there was nothing you could have done to prevent what happened, then you should use a muzzle, which will prevent it. 

There is a blind corner at DrugMart where the people from the drive through come driving out. Unfortunately the sidewalk ends right where people will be driving, especially if they want to mail a letter. This is the ONLY place I can't see what's coming at me and my dog. Sometimes I avoid it altogether. Other times, I will put my dog on a SIT, and poke my head out there and look to see what's there. 

I just put a 7 and almost 7 year-old to bed at my folks house. They are sharp little cookies. I would not send them to the park on their own with Babs. I go along. But that is because Babs could do serious damage, if push came to shove. If she was an English Setter, or a small hound or spaniel that they were raised with, I probably would let them walk the dog in the neighborhood on their own. Of course, I am teaching them how to act with the dog, how to walk it, what to do when there is another dog coming, etc. 

When we were seven years old, we were up at dawn, and had the run of the city. We ate at the school, we wore our swimming suits under our clothes, and we were home when the six o'clock bells rang at the Catholic Church, because of course, none of us had a watch. Sometimes we took our outdoor beagle-mutt on walks by ourselves. If we could scrape up bus fare, we would ride the busses to Parma-Town. 

Nowadays, we are afraid to let the 6 year olds go 1-2 miles to the Park on their own. My sister let them go on their own so they could do it, but she gave them a head start and then followed in the car to make sure they were ok. I think we forget how old seven year olds are. Or maybe, seven year olds aren't as old as they used to be. Of course, my mother handed me a map when I was 4 so I could go from the first day of kindergarten to the new baby sitter's house on my own. By the time we were seven, we owned the neighborhood, and I am talking Cleveland, Ohio, not this little town here where everyone knows everyone else.

I guess I feel if I have a dog that might bite, I make sure I know what's coming all the time, and if the human on the other end of the other dog's lead isn't trying to prevent their dog from accosting mine, I will tell them to reel theirs in, or go further away. Too many people really see no problem with dogs interacting. Their dog isn't aggressive, it loves everyone. To be safe, I would tell them I don't want the dogs to get close enough to eat each other. Maybe we shouldn't have to. But most people aren't hanging around on websites, learning dog-owner ettiquate. 7 years old or 70 years old, no one should have to see their dog get attacked.


----------



## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

pyratemom said:


> I just figured out why a poster mentioned that the my dog bit and was shaking the little dog. When I said the dog was shaken, I meant it was shook up as in nervous, not that Raina had even had a chance to shake her. Sorry for the misunderstanding on that. I do intend to train aggressively and never stop. I do not take any of this lightly.


Oh, I also thought your dog took the little one in it's mouth and physically shook it - you are probably more "shaken" than the dog.


----------



## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I know its a hard lesson for the little girl to learn, but its a perfect opportunity to let her know that those long leads are dangerous and her poodle should be kept on a short lead on her left so she has more control. The poodle owners sound very understanding so you are lucky but it is so unfair that your GSD was put in this position all because of the wrong lead being used on the poodle.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

selzer said:


> When we were seven years old, we were up at dawn, and had the run of the city. We ate at the school, we wore our swimming suits under our clothes, and we were home when the six o'clock bells rang at the Catholic Church, because of course, none of us had a watch. Sometimes we took our outdoor beagle-mutt on walks by ourselves. If we could scrape up bus fare, we would ride the busses to Parma-Town.
> 
> Nowadays, we are afraid to let the 6 year olds go 1-2 miles to the Park on their own. My sister let them go on their own so they could do it, but she gave them a head start and then followed in the car to make sure they were ok. I think we forget how old seven year olds are. Or maybe, seven year olds aren't as old as they used to be. Of course, my mother handed me a map when I was 4 so I could go from the first day of kindergarten to the new baby sitter's house on my own. By the time we were seven, we owned the neighborhood, and I am talking Cleveland, Ohio, not this little town here where everyone knows everyone else.
> .


Lol, you forgot the part where you walked uphill (both ways) to school in blinding snow storm.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Baillif said:


> I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't fault a dog for taking defensive actions, and if it bit another dog out of defense that's one thing, but if you've got a dog that goes on offense or lunges or who's first thought is to maul on a face to face, then yeah you have a problem and might want to consider muzzling in situations where the dog can encounter that kind of situation.


I agree with this.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nigel said:


> Lol, you forgot the part where you walked uphill (both ways) to school in blinding snow storm.


Only that was just the way it was.

As for walking to school in the snow, yupp, we did, only it wasn't up hill both ways, and we weren't quite bare footed. But, for that matter, it wasn't much better than that. I always had a holey pair of sneakers where the icy water would get in, and the bottoms were always flapping, and my pant legs would be stiff with snow by the time I got to school, usually late, so I would flip-flap all the way down the hallway melting snow chunks as my feet burned with cold in the icy wet shoes. 

And in the primary grades we had these plastic book bags with handles which would scrape on the ground and would then scrape across our bare ankles cutting them. Uhg! That was when we had to wear dresses to school -- uhg! 

Kids really don't know how good they have it these days. 

Oh, and after school, I took those shoes over half of Jefferson as I delivered papers. I was 11. I would deliver the papers until I got to the baby-sitter's house, and then I would put my sister, who was born in July that year, in my newspaper bag, and take my little brother who turned four in September with me the rest of the way as I delivered papers for several more blocks. That year my mother made me a scarf and a hat for Christmas and bought me a warm coat. I still have the hat, and wore it last night. But it was cold back then, and I remember our fingers and feet being the worst. Sometimes we would stop at the laundramat to warm up, but that was usually when we delivered morning papers, before the sun was up. I think one year I think I got $40 in Christmas tips, and Mom didn't take half the tips like she did the pay. But I did have to split it with my helpers, who were really more of a hindrance than a help. 

Ah, nothing like the holidays to dredge up fond memories of yester-year.

And today, seven year olds cannot take a small dog for a walk because they might get hit by a truck or someone might have a dog that will bite it. I wonder what these kids will be like when they grow up, and are expected to fend for themselves.


----------



## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

pyrate tbh i think a lot of gsd's out there will respond by grabbing a small dog and shaking it or ripping up another dog. People just dont want to admit it. THey usually are able to get inbetween the dogs before their gsd attacks the other. 

Gsds are one of the worst I have seen when it comes to losing their temper and causing real damage and no i am not talking about my dog just observation from seeing others. Everyone has a story "yes my small dog was attacked by a gsd" Usually small dogs do ask for it by nipping or doing something foolish to the gsd that people always "miss" Like the mod that posted the video here showed. 

You were on leash a small dog went into your dogs face and got clobbered. Just try to scare away the dog next time to avoid it from being grabbed. just got to be aggressive and turn on the other dog yourself or your dog will handle it. THere is always going to be lose dogs just make sure you can contain yours while you get rid of the other. Its hard but it has to be done or you get blamed.


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

pets4life said:


> pyrate tbh i think a lot of gsd's out there will respond by grabbing a small dog and shaking it or ripping up another dog. People just dont want to admit it. THey usually are able to get inbetween the dogs before their gsd attacks the other.
> 
> Gsds are one of the worst I have seen when it comes to losing their temper and causing real damage and no i am not talking about my dog just observation from seeing others. Everyone has a story "yes my small dog was attacked by a gsd" Usually small dogs do ask for it by nipping or doing something foolish to the gsd that people always "miss" Like the mod that posted the video here showed.
> 
> You were on leash a small dog went into your dogs face and got clobbered. Just try to scare away the dog next time to avoid it from being grabbed. just got to be aggressive and turn on the other dog yourself or your dog will handle it. THere is always going to be lose dogs just make sure you can contain yours while you get rid of the other. Its hard but it has to be done or you get blamed.


Just for the record, the little dog barked at my dog first when they came head on. I tried to back off but there was no time. My dog did not pick up the little dog and shake it or rip it to shreds. She bit one time - and I noticed after I got her home, later that day I was looking at her feet and the little dog bit her left front foot at some point in the incident so neither dog was seriously hurt but the little dog did get in a bite of its own. I couldn't scare the dog away because it was on a long leash held by a little girl who did not know what to do. When things happen in 3 seconds it's pretty hard to do anything but second guessing is always a popular sport. Good thing this incident is over with no serious damage. Both families are still friends.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

And for the record, there are ALOT of german shepherds that would act the same way How many threads are on this forum of "my gsd doesn't like other dogs"? or "my gsd bit another dog"?

Tho mine hasn't nailed another dog, she can get real defensive if a strange dog gets in her face so I try very hard to avoid situations like this. However, it certainly CAN happen, and it may happen in the future , who knows? 

I am not about to put a muzzle on my dog out in public just because someone else can't control their dog. (and that is certainly not a bash on the little girl in the op's topic) 

Teri, I'm glad you all are still friends and no real harm was done


----------



## rbyun (Nov 9, 2012)

We spend so much time socialising and training our gsd because they are a powerful breed and you have be in control of situations. But then those small dogs that come charging and barking get away with it. If my gsd behaved the same as those smaller dogs then it would be tagged as a ferocious aggressive dog.

I have issues with small dogs come charging without a lease out of nowhere. My dog was bitten once when it was a pup and I have a small maltze across the road that comes charging. Once it came so fast and somehow got under my dog. My dog picked him up but put him back down right away. My heart was pounding for what happened. But it seems that when I go for walks with my dog, I'm also giving direction to other small dogs, such as I would see them charging and I have to give the "no" command etc. No owner in sight....

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

The little dog charging at and challenging bigger dogs happens all over the world, unfortunately. It has been my experience that with some little dog owners, you can not educate them or change them - they either don't think their dog has bad manners and done something wrong or they can't control their little one and ignore the situation (is easier for them). I've had it happen to me many times, I always encourage my dogs to ignore and keep walking. I know these things happen sooooooo quickly and sometimes there is no time to react, it is all over within seconds and you are left standing there thinking 'what the ......... happened???'. I have also met some little dog owners who admit their dog started it, or has an aggression problem and apologise profusely for their dogs bad behaviour. Wouldn't it be nice if all dogs just got on!


----------



## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> My point in all this is that even when you are careful things can happen.


You shouldn't blame yourself so much, but you also shouldn't take any more chances and train your dog further. Dog is a predator and all his attacks could be seen as a hunting exercise. Big dogs are the prey, small dogs are the prey, cats are the prey, and so on. When your puppy is small - he/she learns hunting, by the age of two the idea what prey should look like is only getting its shape, and by the age of three the image of the object to prey on is clearly fixed in his mind. For the majority of trained adult GSD they are only 2-3 objects: a ball ( representing a mouse or a bird) and a decoy ( representing a big dangerous bull or a bear). The rest of creatures, as small children, any people, horses, cats and other dogs should be recognised as a non-prey. You would have to persuade her that small dogs are not worth of preying on. And here, two commands would help you the most "Heel!" and "Come!". Not knowing it yourself, you taught your dog to prey on other dogs by simply worrying about it, being nervous about this issue, paying attention to her attacks. In order to retrain her you should muzzle her in something soft like this
Royal nappa dog muzzle : Dog muzzle, Leather dog muzzles, Wire dog muzzle, dog muzzle training, Basket dog muzzle, small dog muzzle, Dog leashes
and deliberately go walking in the parks and places with small dogs. She must heel perfectly just walking by them, don't pay attention to any of her reactions at the beginning. Slowly you would start noticing that making only a move towards other dog is enough for her, but bit by bit she would lose interest completely. It could be good if your dog is ball-mad, praising her with the ball ( and showing her a right prey in the same time) could be a tremendous help.


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> And for the record, there are ALOT of german shepherds that would act the same way How many threads are on this forum of "my gsd doesn't like other dogs"? or "my gsd bit another dog"?
> 
> Tho mine hasn't nailed another dog, she can get real defensive if a strange dog gets in her face so I try very hard to avoid situations like this. However, it certainly CAN happen, and it may happen in the future , who knows?
> 
> ...


Thank you. I certainly don't blame the little girl. She isn't old enough to know what to do but she did learn that she must watch what is going on around her. We spoke to her Dad yesterday and Cookie is fine now. I'm not going to muzzle my dog. I will continue training though. She was at the point where she wasn't reacting to big dogs but like many say the little dogs seem to look like prey. Maybe my watchfulness did go down the leash and I plan to work on that too. I never actually stop training because any situation could be a training situation if you use it right.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

:thumbup:Teri


----------



## nomansland4404 (Jun 15, 2010)

I can't believe people think the problem is a kid walking there small dog, when your dog is aggressive. This is not some kids fault for walking there small dog. It is your fault for allowing your dog to be aggressive towards small dogs and not taking the proper precautions.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

this post is almost a month old, not quite, I think the issue has been resolved, and the OP was not blaming the kid walking the dog alls good


----------



## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

nomansland4404 said:


> I can't believe people think the problem is a kid walking *there *small dog, when your dog is aggressive. This is not some kids fault for walking *there *small dog. It is your fault for allowing your dog to be aggressive towards small dogs and not taking the proper precautions.


It is "*their*" small dog.


----------

