# Raising the Working puppy



## Sarah'sSita

First I get the opportunity to post a picture of my new guy. Pele vom Landschaft:










and background: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir=446645&modir=461457

So My idea here:

WHAT are your gems to share to raise a working puppy?
What errors do you think you made when you are have raise your dogs in the past?

What I am trying to do: Have Pele earn his food and play and using the crate frequently ( he is only 8 weeks and we are housbreaking too!. SO bring on those tips and mistakes!


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## Jason L

I'm bookmarking this thread!


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## krylos

Let's see what I can remember from three years ago... These are just my methods though, all pups are different and will need their own "instruction manual". I have to credit the breeder with giving me the basics of most of these. She knows her pups, and this stuff worked for me.

Figure out your house rules. Pick one or two of the most important rules for your pup to comply with. Those are the pup's rules. When the pup goes to the training field in a few months, that is the work area, that is where all the rules are, the pup needs a place to relax and be a dog... that is what home is for. Lana really doesn't have any house rules, she's a pretty good girl. I do expect her to stop barking out the window when I tell her, same with fence barking, but otherwise she is a good girl all on her own. The reason behind this is that you want your pup to be outgoing, inquisitive, curious, adventurous... all that stuff. You don't want to squash the drive with a bunch of rules and stuff. Have fun with your pup.

I had the pup wear the leash everywhere, even in the house for the first month or so. I only took it off when the pup went in the crate and was unsupervised. This was to get the pup used to having a leash, so it kinda became part of the pup and she ignored it after a while. I cut the loop off of a lightweight nylon leash and let her drag it around. It had the added bonus of leaving a six foot long red line pointing to wherever the pup decided to hide! LOL Have fun with your pup.

Lots of tug games. Let the pup win a lot, but only when the pup has a full bite. Let the pup have a chance to re-bite in the beginning and even help them get a full bite. Get down on pup's level and really get into it. Have the pup crawl up and over you laying on the floor and stuff. It builds up confidence. Have fun with your pup.

Scent boxes for foundation training in tracking... stomp down a square about 1 1/2 to 2 times as big as the pup is long. Put food everywhere inside the box, even right on the edge, bot ONLY where the grass is stopmed down. This teaches the pup that good things are found where the grass is broken and nothing is found where its not. I see you have snow, but this is an important item on the checklist so you might want to find a way to make it work even now. I don't know if you could clear an area of snow and let it age for a few hours before you make your puppy squares... overnight would be even better. Make it a fun game for the puppy. take the pup away from the square while there is still a piece or two of food left, before they get bored with it. when the pup has his nose on the ground tell him "good such" (sounds like sook). If he goes out of the box, praise him when he goes back in. Have fun with your pup.

No obedience for a few months. Let the pup be a pup, have fun with the pup, be crazy with the pup! Teach the pup that you are it's world and that all the fun happens with and because of you. For a while you might want to control the really interesting toys. Have something out for the pup to chew on, etc... but the ones that REALLY excite the pup and get him going are the ones you want to be brought out by you, played with in your presence and engaging with you, and put away when playtime is over. That helps the pup learn that you are the source of everything fun and good. Have fun with your pup.

You CAN work on imprinting things like sit and down, but don't make them formal obedience for a while. I know it's so cute to have a pup that knows obedience, but let him be a pup, don't squash the drive. Have treats readily accessible at all times. That way when the pup sits on his own you can tell him good sitz and give a treat. When pup lays down on his own you can say good platz and reward. You can even lead them into it a bit by holding the treat just over their head and maving it toward the tail end a bit to get the sit. Again, tell him good sitz and reward. From the sitz or from standing you can get the platz by holding the treat next to the floor between the pup's feet and pushing back under, good platz and reward. What you are doing is associating an action with a sound (word) for a while. The pup doesn't know what it means, so you can't tell him sit, but you can give the action a name and tell him good job. Have fun with your pup

Lots and lots of patience. A pup is going to do what a pup is going to do. If you give the pup lots of attention, redirect bad behaviors to good ones (ie: redirect chewing on a shoe to chewing on a nylabone, etc), and keep that pup tired out you will have less issues. Have fun with your pup.

New experiences. I was once told that the danger from an unsocialized dog is much much greater than the danger from catching a disease. Take your pup places. Get him used to the car. Go to the pet store. You can put the pup in a cart at first, but get him out and about. Take him to the park and put him up on park benches and picnic tables (stay close of course). Have him play in the sand, climb on big rocks (make sure they are stable first), etc. The entire life of the dog will be a learning experience. Just the other day I was coming out of a new store with Lana and ran across a storm grate in the parking lot. She wanted to walk around it, so I coaxed her onto it, let her check it out, and had her stand on it for a bit. Now she plods right across it with no problems. Take your time, have patience, always be ready to identify and take advantage of learning situations, and have fun with your pup.



Finally, have fun with your pup. If you are going to train this pup to be a working dog, the foundation and relationship you form with him now will determine how the two of you will work together in the future. Build the pup's trust and confidence in you through games and challenging situations. Have fun with your pup.


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## onyx'girl

I did( am doing) the same as Krylos, but never used a collar or leash on my boy when he was very young, unless we were off the property. He had no problem getting use to one, I did use a harness instead of a flat collar though. 
He does obedience off leash as well as on leash. 
We are now using a fursaver, and he has been introduced to a prong within the last month. He is a big boy at 80#/9 mos but doesn't pull me around when not on the prong. 
We are using it to keep him from jumping for the tug while doing obedience. His recall has been outstanding, even with 2 other dogs in his realm.
One thing the Training Director at the club I was going to had us do with small pups was not make them "out" the toy, let them keep it til they give it up. And if a pup has something innappropriate in their mouth, do not make them give it up, but trade. One person had a problem, everytime she approached her pup after the ragwork play, her pup spit it out, as she was afraid of getting a correction. My pup does know how to out to get the game going again, so it worked for us. 
I was very lucky as my pup is almost perfect, so I really haven't had to use many corrections or time outs.
Krylos last sentence is most important, the bond that you share will be forever!
Have fun with your pup.


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## littledmc17

what a sweetie


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## krylos

Jane, you gotta hand it to Chris, she produces some aweful nice pups, huh? Lana NEVER to this day chewed on anything inappropriate. I didn't even have to work at it, it was like she just knew.

I also used a harness for the first couple of months, didn't introduce the prong collar until around the 5th month I think, and even then it was all Lana correcting herself on walks and such.

I second the "trade" toys rather than making the pup "out" it.

Another thing I forgot to mention was not to set your pup up for failure. When teaching the recall, it is best to do it on a long line until the pup knows what it means. When you give the "here" command, the pup has to come to you no matter what. Pups are scatter-brained and something is going to get their attention on the way back to you. Have a long line on so you can guide the pup back to you, then big reward like a tasty treat when he gets there. It is ALWAYS positive when the pup comes to you. ALWAYS. Don't ever use the "here" command when there is even the slightest chance the pup might not comply. You can have a different "come" command, but the "here" command should always be reinforced.


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## Sarah'sSita

Here are a few more 
) develop food drive before toy play. puppy driving obedience. when pup teeths, teach tracking
2) ALWAYS LEAVE PUP WANTING MORE... more play, more time with you. 
3) everything is earned. there is no free lunch.
4) look honestly at the "holes" in the pup and address them. For example, my pup was a little worried about new people so I've had people I trust, take her for walks and structured play so now she thinks new people are cool. For a pup who wants to run to everyone start early with showing them you are the best and other people are not so much fun. If grip is an issue, NEVER reward a less than perfect grip and assume you'll fix it later.
5) you are the best thing in the world. Free play with other people or dogs can diminish that. Also, you are your dog's protector; never allow it to interact with strange dogs unless you personally know them to be safe. People LIE.... 
6) a crate is your best friend


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## Liesje

If you're not sure how to do something or haven't done it before, better to not do it at all than do it wrong!

Nikon really benefited from back-tying and teasing with the ball (or whatever toy you want to use). He wasn't born showing the ball drive he has now, it was something we kinda pulled out of the depths and really developed into something not only valuable for training obedience but also just for playing with him and having fun.

Remember that everyone has their ways and their reasons but it's YOUR dog and you need to raise it for your lifestyle. Nikon was raised with lots of exposure to people, lots of freedom and playtime with my other dogs, lots of toys in the house and the yard. I don't regret any of that even if it's not typical.


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## onyx'girl

> Originally Posted By: krylosJane, you gotta hand it to Chris, she produces some aweful nice pups, huh? Lana NEVER to this day chewed on anything inappropriate. I didn't even have to work at it, it was like she just knew.


Absolutely! Karlo hasn't either, he knows what is for him and nothing that isn't has ever, ever been destroyed by him. Even his crate pads have been left alone. He did munch once the table leg where Onyx did the same, one little puppy bite though and he never did it again after I told him no. Now, as for plush doggy toys, they get gutted asap!





> Originally Posted By: Sarah'sSitaHere are a few more
> ) develop food drive before toy play. puppy driving obedience. when pup teeths, teach tracking
> 2) ALWAYS LEAVE PUP WANTING MORE... more play, more time with you.


Oh, yeah, the tracking =meal, ...so much work to feed the pup(especially when they eat raw)!

#2 is great ...that helps with teaching recall as well, they'd rather be with their person doing fun things, and not miss out than chasing a dumb squirrell!


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## krylos

SQUIRREL!.................


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## Raziel

> Originally Posted By: krylosSQUIRREL!.................


that movie is GREAT!


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## Jason L

> Originally Posted By: LiesjeIf you're not sure how to do something or haven't done it before, better to not do it at all than do it wrong!


I've been told by people at my club: "You can play with your pup but for god sake don't try to 'fix' anything on your own".


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## Sarah'sSita

Seriously? No one has any meaningful points, errors , or tips to add to this topic?


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## lhczth

I have raised so many working puppies that I don't really think about what to do anymore. I try to let them be puppies. I do some early tracking work, some obedience, take KPT classes (these you have to know your instructor well), and do an intro to agility. I do very little to no rag work, get them out to see the world, let them travel with me, hang out with me AND I let them be puppies.


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## krylos

> Originally Posted By: Sarah'sSitaSeriously? No one has any meaningful points, errors , or tips to add to this topic?



Seriously? All that thought and meaning that I put into my post as well as a couple other people and yourself and we are being called "no one"?


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## Sarah'sSita

Krylos: Nothing personal - I liked your post, there just should be more!! , just I know there are more voices out there. I want to know what peoplem have learned from raising other puppies in performance/schH sports. What pitfalls to avoid,etc.

Another one I thought of
Just because you meet someone with far more experience than yourself does not mean that you do everything they suggest. You know the pup and need to trust yourself. Great harm can happen when another well-meaning person decides to try something with your young dog/pup. Sometimes there is great pressure to "conform" and go ahead even when your gut says "no"


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## Freddy

Focus is #1 for me. Everything revolves around focus. Dinner=focus. Walk=focus, potty break=focus. Kong=focus. 

By doing this it became his first instinct, not only when he wants something, but when he is confused, etc. In my neighborhood there are about 50 silent fences that stop about 3 feet from the sidewalk. Most are small dogs but we have one male golden that is about 90 pounds. He charges to the edge and sounds like he's going to explode. I can get a perfect sit and 30 seconds of unbroken eye contact on the sidewalk right in front of the dog with an 8 month old male GSD. One time the woman (finally) came out to settle her dog and give me a half hearted apology. I just smiled and said "this is great, I call it my idiot dog drill" and off I went. 

Your dog will also go through stages like the fear stage, and the "what the [heck] is that" stage. It's kind of embarrassing when a 3rd old girl on a bike with training wheels comes close and your pup is at the other end of the leash trying to run like [heck]. I asked her father if he could sniff the bike, and a minute later he was licking the little girl's face. 

Get your pup used to being off lead in controlled environments, and work towards other environments. 

Take it for walks in parks, festivals, farmer's markets, anywhere that there are a lot of people in close quarters. I think it does wonders for a dog's security when they become older.

Teach them silly things like figure 8s through your legs with the ball. Get them in close proximity to your body, and touch them everywhere including their feet. 

We had 4 puppies start in our club at the same time, all from working lines. I had drive real early, both food and ball so I was fortunate. One observation I've heard is the difference between my pup and the other puppies is that you can tell he REALLY wants to be with me. 

2 ball fetch is a great way to build speed. You can also build speed on recall by having someone hold your dog while you run away. 

Have enthusiasm! I can't tell you how much your dog's level reflects yours. 

Hope these help.


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## Chris Wild

I don't do a lot of formal anything with pups. I mostly allow them to enjoy just being pups. But at the same time it's not a free for all and things are structured to help them learn some lessons that will be important later on. So lots of things both in interacting with the pup and just daily management to lay a solid foundation for later training.

Lots of socialization of course, but I approach it more from the standpoint of desensitization. I'm careful around people, and make sure the pup only gets to interact with people I know, or can at least assess quickly, to be appropriate with pups. So many people want to overwhelm pups, bending over, rubbing the fur off them, picking them up... A soundly temperamented pup has no problem with that for the most part, but at the same time there is no reason to force a pup to put up with being manhandled, and risk a bad experience. And I also don't want to oversocialize to the point where my pup thinks every time it sees a new person it's going to be social hour. I want the pup comfortable around people and unbothered by people, but also able later on to easily tune them out and focus on the task at hand. And that is as difficult for an oversocialized pup to do as it is an undersocialized one.

I take much the same approach to other dogs, but there am even more careful. Pups only are allowed to interact with our own dogs, and dogs of friends/family that we know and can trust around pups. Otherwise, just being out and around and exposed to strange dogs from a distance is all it takes for a pup to be confident and comfortable around them. It doesn't need to view every strange dog as a potential playmate any more than it needs to view people that way.

A good portion of socialization is more environmental. Getting around crowds, traffic, strange places, strange footings, strange noises, negotiating obstacles. Lots of things like dog walks, a frames, wobble boards, walks over varied terrain in the woods, and children's playground equipment to build confidence and also physical dexterity, body awareness and coordination.

As far as training, the only really formal training we do is tracking. I like tracking pups and have found this to be a phase where they can progress pretty well without any detriment. Hard to overdo tracking so long as it is kept positive and not to much for the mental ability of the pup. Learning tracking early also helps offset working on focus and other obedience lessons. Too much focus and obedience too soon can create a pup that is too handler focused and dependent, and remove some of the independent thinking needed in other phases. So teaching them to track, and the independence it fosters, helps balance that out.

Obedience is all motivational using food. I do teach focus, and also the basic obedience exercises. But it's mostly imprinting at this stage. There are no corrections or any sort of pressure. So while the pup is learning what these things mean, he's learning that learning and working are fun and rewarding more than he is learning technical obedience. I teach some house manners too, but mostly through management and supervision and helping the pup build good habits, not bad ones. I do teach discipline and self control, but in a pretty correction free way, where the pup learns that those things earn him what he wants and puppy temper tantrums do not. Just little things like offering focus for dinner, waiting for the "ok" rather than just busting out of the crate when the door is unlatched, sitting and waiting at the door, waiting calmly for leash/collar/harness to be put on, cooperating for grooming, waiting for the hand to open and present the food rather than trying to paw or chew through the hand, etc...

And lots and lots of play. Tug play and ball play, find it games, different problem solving games to help further mental development and confidence (and burn off energy).


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## Bcannie

Thanks for the tips everyone. When you are talking puppy, how old until more formal training begins? 

Also Chris, can you give me some examples of tracking that you would do for a pup who is 15 weeks?

Thanks!


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## MaggieRoseLee

OH MY GOSH, your puppy picture is just precious!!!









Think if I were you I'd make sure to find a great club in your area and start going to classes. Helping with the older dogs as well as starting up with the stuff you can with your puppy. It's amazing how much they can learn at a young age. 

Tugging is vital and doing it right can be started already!


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## Jason L

With puppy tracking, how long tracking in the scent box and when do you start moving to actual A-B tracking?

Ike does really well working the pad but is completely out of control when we move to actual tracking - basically treating the whole thing as one gigantic scent pad.


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## lhczth

I use scent boxes at first. I want to see the pup working the box calmly on a loose line and if they leave the box immediately work their way back to the box. When they are showing this type of understanding I move on to tracks. Scent boxes can be done with even little puppies and by 15 weeks they can be doing short tracks. I usually do this imprinting and then will put them up for awhile until they have gained some mental endurance. Most have been around 10 months.


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