# Coat Color Prediction



## xxluna (Aug 9, 2019)

Sire is Solid black , with dark(black) sable Dad and Mom 

Dam is Dark (black) sable, with bicolor black and Tan Dad and dark (black) sable mom 

I am guessing there could be solid blacks and dark sables, but I am curious how the dam's sire, black and tan bicolar could make an impact in color genes, if any. Any ideas? Color genes are so interesting.


----------



## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

Probably only sable, bicolour, or black. 

There won’t be any Black and Tan because neither of the parents were, and Black and Tan is dominant over bicolour.


----------



## Chuck94! (Feb 8, 2018)

Rollo's parents were both sable; he turned out sable. I'm sure your pup will be (dark) sable


----------



## xxluna (Aug 9, 2019)

Interesting! Thank you for the responses!


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It depends on what the mother Carrie's. The sire can only pass black. What's the pedigree?


----------



## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

I met a GSD a couple of weeks ago that was an adult “black” shepherd. She was solid black, but had the lower half of her legs patterned like a sable, but positioned like a bi. It was very interesting to see. I didn’t ask any questions, because that means I would have to actually talk to someone, but I was very curious how that happened. I know nothing of pedigrees, and my head spins trying to figure it out, so I leave it to the professionals! If I had to guess, I’d say dark sable.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

xxluna said:


> Sire is Solid black , with dark(black) sable Dad and Mom
> 
> Dam is Dark (black) sable, with bicolor black and Tan Dad and dark (black) sable mom
> 
> I am guessing there could be solid blacks and dark sables, but I am curious how the dam's sire, black and tan bicolar could make an impact in color genes, if any. Any ideas? Color genes are so interesting.



Sire: a/a
He can only pass an "a" black gene

Dam: aw/??

The dam's other color gene is unknown. Obviously she got the sable gene "aw" from her mother. But the father has two color genes, the one you see and the one that is recessive that he passed to his daughter. Either of these genes can be passed to her puppies.

For instance, my boy is a sable. His father was black (a/a) and his mother was sable who carried black (aw/a). We know this because her father was black and could only have passed an "a" gene to her). So he is also aw/a

My girl is black/tan. Her mother is sable who carries black (aw/a) and her father was black and tan and can only carry black/tan (as/as) by looking at his pedigree. She's a black/tan who carries black. (as/a)

I'm sure there will be sables because that is a dominant color. There could be blacks if the dam carries black thru her sire because he could carry it repressively. But her sire could also carry another "at" gene. So it looks like your options are

Sable : aw/??
Black (if the recessive she carries is black): a/a
OR
Bi-color (if the recessive she carries is bi-color): at/a

Color Genetics in German Shepherds


----------



## xxluna (Aug 9, 2019)

Thank you for the super helpful information Jax08!


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Color, pigment and pattern are 3 separate components.

You have to know the recessives to know what colors are possible. I had a sable female whose sire was black, so she was easy....she carried for black. Bred to sables 3 times, she produced sables and blacks in 2 litters, and in the 3rd litter there was 1 black and tan who may have been a bi color. Bred to Zender Lusondai, she produced black, sable and black and tan....so Zender, a black and tan carried black recessive, A black female from that litter produced all three colors as well. A black female I imported, bred to a sable produced sable and bi color - thus the sire carried black and tan/bi rather than black recessive. 

One sable female I had bred to a black and tan who was somewhere between a saddle and a blanket pattern produced sables who patterned out to sable saddles. Very light tan with light sable saddles....and the female was a pretty decently pigmented dog. 

A black sable female bred to sable male gave me all medium sable pups. One of that litter when bred to a dark sable produced super dark black sables and normal gray sables...another of the litter only produces sables - from 4 litters produced from black female, all are sables - some black sables (like his dam) and some normal pigmented more like his sire...the genetics for the depth of color varied in the litter even though all were sables. Some litters had all dark/black sables, some had a mixture of lighter and dark.


----------

