# thinking of changing foods



## Keegan62 (Aug 17, 2008)

Jack has settled in on INNOVA large breed puppy and evo canned food with good results but I really want to go grain free as I really think that is really the best....

I read on dogfoodanalysis.com that go natural grain free is a 5 star food...... but it is really high in protein

He really only eats about 2 cups dry and 1 can of canned a day now and a few treats

1. what do you think of Go natural grain free
2. since it is high protein can I just give him a little of that for several months and keep him ont LB INNOVA puppy

I wish I could find a dry that he would eat without the canned,,,,

But maybe when he is an adult


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## brimmstone (Oct 16, 2008)

Grain free may be the way to go for an adult dog----do not feed grain free to a puppy. It is way too high in protein and could have adverse effects on the joints and growing bones. You do not want the puppy to grow too fast. All grain free foods are very high protein.
As for your current diet-why do you want to switch? Adding in some canned food is actually a great way to supplement the kibble with a very good source of protein, vitamnins and minerals. The canned food has less preservatives and nastys in it. With that being said-be careful of feeding EVO canned-again because it is grain free. Until he is an adult I would stick to puppy food---including canned if possible. If you must choose a regular adult canned food----choose something other than grain free. Unless of course you have diagnosed allergies to grains.

brimmie
Brimmstone GSD BH,OA,OAJ,FO
Buddy GSD
ET GSD
Tazer GSD


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## bmass01 (Apr 7, 2005)

I like the Fromm Surf and Turf, only 30% protien which is pretty low for a grain free. I also plan on feeding this to my new puppy. It is pretty low Cal/phos. well within puppy range.


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## sprzybyl (May 15, 2008)

I'm feeding riley Orijen Large Breed Puppy. It's grain free and i've only heard good things from other people who feed it to both adults and puppies.


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## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

Sofia has been on Orijen LBP since we got her at 8 weeks and she has been doing great on it. And she loves the taste!

If you have concerns about the high protein content, go to the Orijen website and read the white paper document. It has all the research you may want to read about if you are interested.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

We have been having issues with Luther's food - the vet is thinking potential grain allergy - and have switched him to Orijen LBP. He LOVES it and (fingers crossed) so far poops are great, and he's doing beautifully on it.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> Grain free may be the way to go for an adult dog----do not feed grain free to a puppy. It is way too high in protein and could have adverse effects on the joints and growing bones. You do not want the puppy to grow too fast. All grain free foods are very high protein.
> 
> With that being said-be careful of feeding EVO canned-again because it is grain free.


Your warning doesn't hold true for canned food.

This is for Evo's HIGH PROTEIN canned food:

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein - 12.0% min. 
Crude Fat - 8.0% min. 
Crude Fiber - 0.5% max.
Moisture - 78.0% max.
Vitamin E - 100 IU/kg min. 


Evo's Adult Beef Formula (which has the higher levels than the adult canned formulas):

Nutritional Analysis

Moisture 75.77 % 
Protein 11.05 % 
Fat 11.0 % 
Linoleic Acid 0.5 % 
Arachidonic Acid 0.01 % 
Fiber 0.12 % 
Ash 1.43 % 
Calcium 0.24 % 
Phosphorous 0.23 % 
Magnesium 0.01 % 
Sodium 0.15 % 
Potassium 0.24 % 
Chloride 0.25 % 
Iron 71.05 mg/kg 
Zinc 48.26 mg/kg 
Copper 3.49 mg/kg 
Iodine 0.67 mg/kg 
Manganese 5.63 mg/kg 
Selenium 0.09 mg/kg 
Arginine 0.75 % 
...

http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?panel=na&id=1493


Canned food, as you can tell, is mostly water. There just isn't much protein in it. In fact, the protein and fat levels in canned Evo put them below every quality adult kibbles I know of. We also need to be concerned with calcium and phosphorous (and keep an eye on such nutrients as zinc and copper). But none of these in Evo canned are too high for a growing GSD pup.

There is no reason that Kathy can't feed Evo to her pup. 

With kibbles, because moisture levels are so low, the food is dense. That's why we keep a close eye on nutrient levels. But some grain free foods, like Natural Balance, the protein level (around 21-24%) can be fine for growing GSD pups. In fact, I worry that some, like Duck and Potato, may not have sufficient fat for _active _ growing puppies. 

There is no hard and fast rule such as: "do not feed grain free to a puppy." We need to read ingredients labels. We need to read guaranteed analyses. More importantly, we need to read nutritional analyses (and ask manufacturers for them when they're not available on the bag or website). And we need to know where our dog is in his growth. Then we can make the best decision for our individual pup.


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## Keegan62 (Aug 17, 2008)

thanks for all your replys
I knew that the evo wasn't really bad.....and he like sit so he will continue to get it LOl

I agree with reading
but am figuring at 9 months maybe the change


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Don't we need to do the "as fed" calculation on canned food so we can compare it to kibble?
I of course can not remember the forumla


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## brimmstone (Oct 16, 2008)

Thanks for pointing out that there are afew grain free kibbles available with a lower protein content. Totally my mistake. I do stand corrected.
I have researched the 5 to 6 star rated foods...all of which are very high in protein. From the documentation I have read, the advice was/has been to avoid feeding a pup a high protein food, due to the growing joints and bones.
As for my respones to EVO canned food-I only meant that "I" wouldn't use it as an add in along with the grain free food-for a puppy.
Very unfortunately, someone I know was feeding their puppy a grain free food which could have contributed to a serious joint problem (also genetics playing a part) that now requires surgery.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

TOTW Pacific is only like 26% protein I think.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: BrimmstoneVery unfortunately, someone I know was feeding their puppy a grain free food which could have contributed to a serious joint problem (also genetics playing a part) that now requires surgery.


Unless it was Orijen Large Breed Puppy, chances are it had a fair amount MORE calcium in it than is "recommended. Most folks worry more about excess calcium for growing puppies than protien.


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## bmass01 (Apr 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSD
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: BrimmstoneVery unfortunately, someone I know was feeding their puppy a grain free food which could have contributed to a serious joint problem (also genetics playing a part) that now requires surgery.
> ...


Not knocking Orijen LBP as I have never tried it and appears to be an excellent food, but it is not the only good grain free food out there. As an example Fromm (which is what I feed) is 1. only 30% protein 2. only about 1% calcium 3. is also a 5 star rated food if that is what you go by. 

So please do not give the impression that Orijen is the only good food out there, there are many and you need to do what is best for you and your pup and do research. Not every food will work for every dog.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

fromm surf and turf looks like a fine food....but not for a gsd puppy. fromm surf and turf lists their calcium as a minimum. when i emailed them last fall to find out the calcium levels on an as fed basis, the response was that it was 1.9%, which in my opinion is too high for our puppies. orijen large breed puppy is still the only grain free that i would feed to a puppy. (though i think natural balance makes one with lower calcium, but if i recall there is not a great deal of animal protein in it?)


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Bmass01,

Nowhere do I say that Orijen is the only good grain free food out there. But it IS the only one *I* have found that has what is considered by many to have the calcuim levels recommended for a large breed puppy.

As was said above, the Surf and Turf is listed as "minimum" as are a LOT of other foods. Just because the "minimum" is within the range you are looking for, does NOT mean that the food is ACTUALLY within that range. 

And FWIW, If I could get both brands here I would feed Fromm products myself. But since I can't get either product here, I feed something else.

Derek,

You are correct, the Natural Balance GF foods all have either Sweet potatoes or Potatoes as the first ingredient. For instance the these are the first 4 ingredients of the SWeet Potato and Venison: "Sweet Potatoes, Venison, Venison Meal, Potato Protein".
It lists the calcuim at 1% MIN.(as do all 3 of the "grain free" flavors)


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