# May have to rehome my GSD



## mocamacho92 (Mar 18, 2012)

Ok, I know Ive posted two other posts about my GSD being aggressive with my Golden retriever but this time I may have to rehome my GSD. So, yesterday my dad and I were supervising my GSD and my GR play with toys because thats usually starts the fights. my GSD was doing REALLY well, she wasnt nipping at my GR's legs while she chased the ball, like she usually does, and did fairly well. Well, my GR had the ball in her mouth and my GSD was behind her. Somehow I think my GR got mad and growled or bit at my GSD. This caused a fight that my dad and I couldnt stop. We were yelling at Xena and Duchess to let go and had them by the collar. I was even hitting my GSD on the head. We finally got them to separate when my dad threw the water and vinegar bottle on Xena. Duchess(GR) was exhausted and she had some blood on her leg. She has a small knick, which I think happened because my dad and I were trying to pull them away from each other. That is the only wound on my GR. I then scolded Xena and put her in the dog run.

I KNOW that my father and I approached the fight wrong. We shouldnt have pulled them from each other. I shouldnt have hit her head like I did, and we should have REMAINED CALM!. I think the dogs fed off our panicked energy.

Anyways, yesterday we were sure that we were going to get rid of Xena because its not fair to Duchess. But today I feel that we can fix this behavior. They only fight over toys and food. I want to fix that behavior. 

So, is there anything recommended for me to do?! Does anyone think I can fix this? Anyone have a similar problem?? thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

If you want to keep the females, start to crate/rotate and don't allow them to be together. Find a behaviorist and attempt to fix it that way.

Females sometimes just don't get along. Sometimes the best option is to rehome if the alternatives like crate/rotate are too difficult.


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## LaneyB (Feb 5, 2012)

I would take them out separately to play and not feed them together either, if they fight over food and toys.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Do not use toys to play with them. Feed in crates or separate rooms.
But also - they have 'history' now so avoiding the triggers may work or they may find new triggers.
Some bitches do not get along, period.


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## mocamacho92 (Mar 18, 2012)

thanks for all the advice. Its weird because they are usually really good with each other. They wrestle, the sleep next to each other, etc. And Xena is really good with other dogs. She always submits to other dogs. Just not to my GR. well, she kind of submitted in the beginning


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

How old is your Golden?


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## mocamacho92 (Mar 18, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> How old is your Golden?


My golden is 9 years old. My german shepherd is about 7-8 months.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It sounds like you have a resource guarding issue going on as well as a senior dog annoyed that your GSD is herding her. That may have made your GR a bit reactive I would NOT let them have any resources while loose together. That includes toys, treats, food. You have a puppy that is very impressionable right now and need to manage this so you don't end up with reactive dog.

My trainer has us working on pack exercises. Part of that is for one dog to sit/down while the other is playing. Maybe that is something you might try to teach them that just because one dog is doing something does not mean the other has too.


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## Psychedelic Shepherd (Jun 11, 2012)

How long have they been together? A nine year old dog might not change her ways and she probably feels threatened by the pup. Your Shepherd is probably challenging her place in the pack. She might not even know she's doing it. That's a tough situation. Since your GS is younger, I would try to work with her more. Separating them at feeding will probably help a lot. Also, try to show both of them that you are in control of the toys. You give them out at play time and you take them away when it's time to relax. Don't let them get possessive over the toys. Same thing with food. It sounds like those are your triggers and that makes me think they are competing for pack placement. Good luck, and if it is too much for you to handle, it's probably better to let the pup go somewhere she can be a puppy.
_
"My trainer has us working on pack exercises. Part of that is for one dog to sit/down while the other is playing. Maybe that is something you might try to teach them that just because one dog is doing something does not mean the other has too."_
^^ That is an excellent idea!


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

If they only fight over food and toys, then do not allow them to have toys while together, even if they are supervised things happen fast, and feed in seperate areas.
Like I said in your other thread my dogs play well together except with stuffed animals they'd kill each other over a stuffed animal, so they don't have any at all. 
Just from the other thread and this one if they were mine the first thing to go would be the ball.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> It sounds like you have a resource guarding issue Yes. Thats exactly what it sounds like. going on as well as a senior dog annoyed that your GSD is herding her. That may have made your GR a bit reactive I would NOT let them have any resources while loose together. 100% Agree. That includes toys, treats, food. You have a puppy that is very impressionable right now and need to manage this so you don't end up with reactive dog. Yep.
> 
> My trainer has us working on pack exercises. Part of that is for one dog to sit/down while the other is playing. Maybe that is something you might try to teach them that just because one dog is doing something does not mean the other has too. Yes. To the OP-Thanks to good advice from the people here we were able to quickly stop the fighting. But subtle hints of the resource guarding persisted until we worked at this. My husband will work with Mac and when Bart tries to run over I interject and redirect  and vice versa


We struggled with the same issue when we brought a second dog into the house. I totally agree with Jax08's comments. My additional comments are in red above. 

In my opinion "rehoming" should not be a consideration until you have done everything possible to solve the problem or if you are unwilling to. Then the dog would be better off with someone else. Getting a dog is a committment. I get the vibe from you that you get that and are willing. You can fix this.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Mac's Mom said:


> We struggled with the same issue when we brought a second dog into the house. I totally agree with Jax08's comments. My additional comments are in red above.
> 
> In my opinion "rehoming" should not be a consideration until you have done everything possible to solve the problem or if you are unwilling to. Then the dog would be better off with someone else. Getting a dog is a committment. I get the vibe from you that you get that and are willing. You can fix this.


I just realized that I didn't actually explain how we dealt with and solved the issue in my reply. Sorry.

We removed all toys and treats (bones) from the house and yard. Those things came directly from us on our terms under our supervision. We started feeding the new dog (Bart) in his crate. When we were all outside together we tag teamed. As time goes by the resource guarding lessens and you can relax more...with consistency from you the problem with go away completely.

Don't feel bad that you didn't know how to break up a dog fight. I had one once and it was scary as heck. Luckily, the dogs were trained to go to their crates. I was in the middle of 90ish lb GSD and a 60ish lb GSD mix fight and all I saw was teeth. I didn't pull them apart or hit them. I yelled "crate" and they both ran to their crates. I used to think I was just lucky but I realized its good training too...Good luck to you.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

since you know toys are a trigger you should have never let the 2 dogs play with the toys even supervised, so this time it wasnt the dogs fault, it was yours and your fathers ..

as far as the old dog, she doesnt need a rambunctious 8 month old puppy annoying her.. take the youngster and start training her obedience wise and train her to leave the old dog alone period... should the old dog want to play with the youngster the old one will start to play with the young one. make sure the young one gets spayed too. same sex aggression is common in most if not all breeds, and you have 2 females here, one older and one snotty pup who isnt taking nicely to being corrected by the older dog anymore as the youngster is starting to mature.

start working the youngster to tire her out mentally and physically- advance into tougher training classes and up the young ones exercise (not just playng in yard but take her out and about and practice obedience work while out in public) enroll in agility or rally classes with the youngster, give her a job to do... the more tired she is the more she wont annoy the senior dog... 

and remove all toys from now on and dont let the 2 dogs play with toys anymore.... you are settng your young dog up to fail by allowing toys even while supervised knowing she has a guarding issue and its not fair to the younger dog .... its not her fault this fight happened so why should she suffer and be rehomed??? work her and get her into more training ....


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## sabledog (Mar 13, 2012)

I know this has already been said... but if you KNOW being around toys causes fights, why would you have them around toys together at all? Even supervised? Don't do that. It'll save you some grief.

And think about allowing them to live separately. I have to do it with my two. They will never get along. I just have them out at different times and do everything separately. It's not ideal. But it's better than rehoming.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Two females. 

You are scolding the shepherd because she is younger, and you think she should be low man on the totem pole. You can actually cause issues that way. If this was boys, I would suggest not doing that, and if the GSD is naturally more dominant than the other dog, do not try to force the younger dog to be lower than the older dog. But these are bitches.

Bitches are funny. They remember forever. If they decide they hate another bitch, they will watch and wait for a chance and they will take no prisoners. 

But this is so easy. The GR is 9 years old. Sorry, but chances are this is not going to be a problem in a few years, because their life-span is similar to GSDs. Rehoming the GSD is premature in my opinion, if you can feed in the crate, train separately, play in the yard separately, and if necessary crate/rotate.

I would NOT allow them to sleep next to each other. It really only takes one walking by and bumping the other for it to be on, if you are not right there supervising. So far you have not had much problems because the GSD is so young. But she is becoming sexually mature -- and if she has not been spayed, I would not spay for this reason as it is more likely to cause problems than the other way around. If you were planning on spaying, you might want to consider that carefully. It can remove the heat cycles, and that could be cause of irritation, but it also removes hormones that actually tend to calm situations down, and so, it could make things worse.

Anyhow. I would crate the puppy at night. Crate both when they are eating. Crate one and play with the other in the yard with toys. Then switch off. Train, train, train the puppy. If in the evenings both dogs are fine in the house together, then let them relax with you in the computer room or in front of the TV. If walks are ok in tandem, then maybe you can continue that, though, I find it good quality time to take walks singly.

One sleeps in the crate, one out. 

If necessary, one is crated in the living room chewing on a bone, while the other is out. Two crates, one goes in before the other comes out if necessary. 

Musical crates is not easy for most pet owners, but when you chose to bring home a second female, that was a possibility. It does not matter what lines, what anything. It is not necessarily any type of genetic flaw, or any flaw. Some females just do not get along, and when you get a second female, crate/rotate was a possibility you signed up for. 

The reason I said it is easy, is because you have one dog that should be slowing down. And one that is gearing up. Which means you have one that needs lots of training and socializing, and one that will be just as happy hanging around in the living room while you are doing all that with the pup. When the pup comes home from her outings, she can be crated. Later in the evening, the Golden can be crated for a while while the pup is out. Then the pup can be crated for the night. 

With good training, you will be more confident, and you will be able to train her to leave the other dog totally alone. But that does not happen over night. And if she is crated at night until the older dog passes, it won't hurt her at all. 

Make the crate a happy place. She gets a bone or an antler that she gets only while she is in there. Never use it for punishment. Using a baby gate, you can limit access to one another if you do not want to use the crates as much. 

When breaking up a bitch fight, anything goes, the dog is not going to remember that you hit the dog. It has a one tract mind at that moment. But afterwards, do not punish one dog. This is deep and personally, I think it is more a fail on our parts when our dogs have an altercation, or just what it is, not something that we should punish the dogs for. That is just my opinion though.

And after an altercation, dog-emotions are high and putting them right back together might mean taking it up where it left off. 

If you are alone and you have a bitch fight, get a leash make a big loop and get it over one of them, and then clip it to a fence, than get a hold of the loose ones back legs, and walk her out of range usually in a circle, keep circling away from the now tethered dog, until you can get the dog into a kennel or crate. 

Bitches are worse than dogs.

Good luck.


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## mocamacho92 (Mar 18, 2012)

Mac's Mom said:


> I just realized that I didn't actually explain how we dealt with and solved the issue in my reply. Sorry.
> 
> We removed all toys and treats (bones) from the house and yard. Those things came directly from us on our terms under our supervision. We started feeding the new dog (Bart) in his crate. When we were all outside together we tag teamed. As time goes by the resource guarding lessens and you can relax more...with consistency from you the problem with go away completely.
> 
> Don't feel bad that you didn't know how to break up a dog fight. I had one once and it was scary as heck. Luckily, the dogs were trained to go to their crates. I was in the middle of 90ish lb GSD and a 60ish lb GSD mix fight and all I saw was teeth. I didn't pull them apart or hit them. I yelled "crate" and they both ran to their crates. I used to think I was just lucky but I realized its good training too...Good luck to you.


Are your dogs still fighting? Or have they stopped? What cause your dogs to fight and how bad were the fights?? I asked a trainer about it and he recommends I rehome xena. So did a lady I know that is very knowledgable with dogs. So I'm really confused


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## mocamacho92 (Mar 18, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the advice. I completely agree, it was my fault that they fought. I should not have had toys out. Luckily I do have a dog run in my backyard so maybe having them separate when they eat, play, and when I'm gone will help.


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## sabledog (Mar 13, 2012)

mocamacho92 said:


> Thanks everyone for the advice. I completely agree, it was my fault that they fought. I should not have had toys out. Luckily I do have a dog run in my backyard so maybe having them separate when they eat, play, and when I'm gone will help.


Okay, I have to ask because you live near me. What kind of dog run do you have? I'm looking for one for the yard right now. I just need one with a roof because my bitch is a climber and can scale a 6" chain link fence easy.

ETA. you can PM me to keep the thread on topic if you want


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## mocamacho92 (Mar 18, 2012)

sabledog said:


> Okay, I have to ask because you live near me. What kind of dog run do you have? I'm looking for one for the yard right now. I just need one with a roof because my bitch is a climber and can scale a 6" chain link fence easy.
> 
> ETA. you can PM me to keep the thread on topic if you want


I had my dog run built out of metal I think. It doesn't have a roof though.


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## mocamacho92 (Mar 18, 2012)

selzer said:


> Two females.
> 
> You are scolding the shepherd because she is younger, and you think she should be low man on the totem pole. You can actually cause issues that way. If this was boys, I would suggest not doing that, and if the GSD is naturally more dominant than the other dog, do not try to force the younger dog to be lower than the older dog. But these are bitches.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. Have you experienced this before with two females? Xena wa adopted so she was spayed :/. Also, Xena sleeps in a crate every night.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

mocamacho92 said:


> Are your dogs still fighting? Or have they stopped? What cause your dogs to fight and how bad were the fights?? I asked a trainer about it and he recommends I rehome xena. So did a lady I know that is very knowledgable with dogs. So I'm really confused


I'm sorry I didn't mean to be confusing. I know this is a very difficult and upsetting situation. 

Before I brought the second dog, Bart, into the house I got a lot of advice from the people here so I was at an advantage. Honestly, looking back, every issue that I had with resource guarding & fighting was when I deviated from the advice I was given. I had to be very diligent in the beginning but as time went by it got easier. Now I have bones laying every where and there are no fights. However, I still feed Bart in his crate. 

I think its odd that people suggest rehoming this early in the game but maybe there is something here that I'm missing.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

mebully21 said:


> since you know toys are a trigger you should have never let the 2 dogs play with the toys even supervised, so this time it wasnt the dogs fault, it was yours and your fathers ..Right. Before we brought Bart home, we were advised to remove all triggers like bones & toys. Now that you know its not too late to do it.
> 
> as far as the old dog, she doesnt need a rambunctious 8 month old puppy annoying her.. take the youngster and start training her obedience wise and train her to leave the old dog alone period... Agreed. My husband used to take Mac outside to play and exercise. And I would stay in the house with Bart. And vice versa. Now that the issues are gone, we all do everything together. But even now we realize the two dogs have very different energy levels and needs. Mac likes to be outside even when its hot and will jump in his pool to cool off. Bart likes to stay cool in the sunroom or shade. should the old dog want to play with the youngster the old one will start to play with the young one. make sure the young one gets spayed too. same sex aggression is common in most if not all breeds, and you have 2 females here, one older and one snotty pup who isnt taking nicely to being corrected by the older dog anymore as the youngster is starting to mature.
> 
> ...


OP-I agree with a lot of the points in this post. My comments are in red.

Like I said in my other post. Every issue I had was because I made a mistake. But I learned from those mistakes and did better the next time. Just like your puppy will. If I come across as critical or judgemental...trust me its the opposite. I do understand that there are so many things we don't know when we get a dog. You're very smart to be on this site and getting advice.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Having brought a young high drive female GSD at 12 weeks old into my household with a middle aged neutered male GSD at 5 years old I recognize this problem. At first they got along because Raina was a pup and would respect Pyrate. As they got older Raina realized she was stronger and more fit and started not taking his directions so easily. Pyrate would start fights with her for not listening to him. At that time I stayed outside with them and just let her drag a leash in the yard so when something fired up, I'd grab the leash and control Raina, either tying the leash to the fence post or putting her in the outdoor kennel, whichever was closer and then grab Pyrate's collar and heel him into the house. Once I said Heel Pyrate would go with me and not fight it. I also tried turning on the hose and spraying them one time when I was having a hard time breaking them up. (Picture two GSD weighing about 100 pounds and me weighing about 110) When it got bad I didn't let them in the yard together anymore because Raina suffered from misdirected aggression and when any other dog passing by went off she would take it out on Pyrate if she had a chance. Eventually Pyrate got to where he didn't want to be outside with her if she was barking - he would head for the door. Towards the end she finally matured enough to realize Pyrate was weaker and there was no need to attack him so she started leaving him alone. She gradually got to where she would try to protect him as his hips and back nerves got worse. In between those times is was crate and rotate for quite a while though. I hope it works out for your and the girls.


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## mocamacho92 (Mar 18, 2012)

Mac's Mom said:


> I'm sorry I didn't mean to be confusing. I know this is a very difficult and upsetting situation.
> 
> Before I brought the second dog, Bart, into the house I got a lot of advice from the people here so I was at an advantage. Honestly, looking back, every issue that I had with resource guarding & fighting was when I deviated from the advice I was given. I had to be very diligent in the beginning but as time went by it got easier. Now I have bones laying every where and there are no fights. However, I still feed Bart in his crate.
> 
> I think its odd that people suggest rehoming this early in the game but maybe there is something here that I'm missing.


No, I've mentioned all the problems that were having. So your dogs have learned to share toys?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I"m not sure the dogs do have to learn to "share" toys. They do need to learn that taking one away from the other is not ok. Do you have extra toys out when they are together? Do you allow one dog to bother the other when they have a toy? Do you redirect before one dog gets to the other? I think all of these are important in teaching (1) that it's not ok to bother the other dog which will teach dog #1 that there is no reason to resource guard (2) that there are plenty of toys so no reason to resource guard.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

mocamacho92 said:


> Thanks for the advice. Have you experienced this before with two females? Xena wa adopted so she was spayed :/. Also, Xena sleeps in a crate every night.



Yes, and no. When my brother's dog came to me she was three. My girl was two. They were ok together for a while. Then I went on vacation and my brother took care of the girls, coming twice a day to my house. The hierarchy changed during that week and I was oblivious. Right after I came home, WWIII happened in my back yard. The resource they were guarding was me. But they were bitches. They were trying to kill each other. We all needed the ER before it was over. 

I was not able to put the two together again because they literally hated each other. 

I got them apart. My girl was 65 pounds and my brother's 75 pounds, and they weren't quitting. One would have killed the other if I did not step up and get them apart.

We lived together for two more years, and I built the kennels because of this situation. My brother finally finished school, got a job, and bought a house, so he took his dog back. One was always kenneled while the other was out.


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## mocamacho92 (Mar 18, 2012)

UPDATE: I haven't been on in a while but, we have decided to keep Xena. We have been working with her training everyday and we are very careful when having her and my golden together. They have been doing just fine. Thanks for everyone ones input. Had I not asked for advice, I might have rehomed her. She ha a forever home with us for sure.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

thats great, just don't let your guard down, thing can change in less than a second.


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