# Tips for a closer front?



## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

My dog Ivan has a good recall, except he tends to veer around me and then circles me. I have been adding the front command with the recall and it helps, but he stops a couple of feet from me. I want him to have a tighter front.

When training a brand new behavior I start with food, then move to a toy reward. I know this is a crazy question but would this seem to be a new behavior? Would I do better to rename the behavior I want (front up close) or continue to use the front cue and just try to tighten it up.

He's 3 and we are long passed luring for known behaviors, and I use a varied reward schedule.

Thanks!


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

You need a helper to have Ivan on a leash and use opposition reflex to force him to move up closer to you. It should be fairly straightforward for an experienced helper.


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

Thanks for the response, unfortunately I don't have a helper. We don't compete, we just train for fun. I just thought I might be able to teach him to come in closer for the reward. It might just be easier to teach a new cue though since he has been getting rewarded for a front farther away from me.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Go back to your food reward..as he's coming "in",,(lets see if I can explain this! LOL) hold the treat with both hands together, straight down, if he 'sits' to far, draw him in with the food, bringing both hands straight into you and upward as he's closing in I use the word "closer" if I want them to be closer in front of me,,when he's 'close', pop the treat..


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

What Jakoda said^^^Another way to explain it is if you can control his head,the body follows.I used to have the same problem with fronts and also crooked sits.It's much easier to demonstrate than describe You use your hands with treat/toy as a magnet and the dog's head is the steel.You can put him exactly where he needs to be.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Work on a close front without the recall. Use food or toy lures, whatever works best. In dog language, being that close and personal in the front-to-front can be seen as a pushy and rude behaviour, even a challenge, so you need to show him that it's okay, it is what you want. Just spend time with him being the close front position while you pet him and talk to him gently so he comes to enjoy the position, instead of avoiding it, because he doesn't want to seem to be rude. Then back-chain the close front position to the recall. 

Start small, just have him come to you from a few feet away and lure him into position, then gradually add more distance.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I only scanned through the thread, so I could have missed it. I do some of the things mentioned, but I also while playing two ball, have the dog run between my legs. This helps eliminate that personal space issue. Just watch your footing as the dog can take out your legs if you're not careful.


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

mycobraracr said:


> I only scanned through the thread, so I could have missed it. I do some of the things mentioned, but I also while playing two ball, have the dog run between my legs. This helps eliminate that personal space issue. Just watch your footing as the dog can take out your legs if you're not careful.



Ya know, this sounds like fun! He already knows the game, I'll just have to be really careful! He's kinda tall and I can see me sprawled out in the back yard! :laugh: Will definitely try this!

Last night I broke out the old perch. I taught him rear end awareness and the heel position with it, don't know why I didn't teach him front with it also...He was confused at first, he wanted to swing around in the heel, wasn't listening was just excited, loves to train. I would step away then back in front of him and reward him when he stood still. Then toss a treat behind him to release him and call him back to a front. This was just from a few feet. Once he settled down and focused he seemed to be getting it. I'll work like this a couple of weeks and alternate from heel to front until he learns it then fade the perch and see how we do.

After that I'll add the recall from a short distance and gradually extend the distance. Thanks for all the replies! Gonna have fun with the two ball change. Gonna see if my daughter will video it in case I have a faceplant!!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yeah i dont know max was running passed me full speed and just clipped my leg and my leg was sore for up for a few days.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Its generally what everyone has already said, as far as the dog being comfortable in the front position and where the reward is given whether its a toy or food. I can't have my dog go between my legs, he's not as agile as Kimber and I'm not as athletic as Jeremy, so I use a physical cue by turning sideways for him to run past me and If I'm straight, that means come front.

I use a toy mostly and do little drills that bring him close in. Either I step in front of him in a down and pop the toy straight up so that he pops straight up into the position or I may put the toy under my chin and heel walk backwards and drop it to him, close like that. You can either let it fall, or if that's a problem use your hand. I use opposition reflex differently. I use it to secure a sit or down. I did a few different drills like that with him here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHFlOmmer6M


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> I may put the toy under my chin and heel walk backwards and drop it to him, close like that.


You have to be careful with this one, if you have a bouncy dog with a lot of drive - I have the scar on my upper lip to prove it. ;0) >


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

Thanks so much for posting the video! It's great! I'm going to use a couple of things I saw with Ivan, I'm sure he will have a blast. The toy under the chin is going to be good I think. I'll let you know how it goes, I'm psyched about training today! I guess it helps the trainer to change things up a bit too. I'm gonna look through some of your other videos also, thanks again!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> You have to be careful with this one, if you have a bouncy dog with a lot of drive - I have the scar on my upper lip to prove it. ;0) >


Yeah, they do have to know that its not ok to come up and take it. Its actually an important point Lucia is making,Rosy. Thats not the actual training of things, thats just playing around. Everything is taught in little pieces, beginning with the focus and capping.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Rosko actually has 3 different recalls. The original recall is just "Rosko come". This will get him running to me and standing in the heel position. This was taught with treats. Very reliable. The second recall he was taught was "von mir" this just means by me. This is his most reliable recall. Taught via e collar. The third I wanted him to run to me and sit down in front of me until released. This is simply "rosko attention". He is only a few weeks into this one. pretty reliable but the weakest of the 3. This was taught while walking loose leash with treats. Give the command while moving him into position with leash. Once leash isn't needed start off leash and slowly add distance.


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