# Approaching first heat cycle. Have a few questions.



## Anthony8858

Kira is 9 months today. I assume that she should be getting into her first cycle very shortly.

I've decided that I would have her go through a cycle, then get her spayed.

I have a few questions:

1) I've never gone though this. Are there any obvious signs that she's entering her cycle?

2) Are there any precautions I should take regarding her safety? Such as walking in the park, or street? Will male dogs scale fences to get at her?
(You should know I'm a worry wart )

3) How long will it last?

4) Do you agree that I should get her spayed after her first heat? I've decided that I won't breed her.
I've read mixed approaches. Some say wait until she's at least 18 months or so, and others say after the first cycle.
I'd like to hear some more about this, before going forward with her spay.


----------



## 4TheDawgies

It will last about 30 days
She will only bleed the first half. The second half she will be "ready to stand" and will try and show herself to everyone..

Obvious signs are blood, swollen, male dogs licking and chattering teeth over her urine and marking her urine.
She may skip some meals, she may act extra playful & flirty

Male dogs will get quite creative to get to her. Until about her last week to week and a half she will flirt will all boys but will not allow them to mount, or mount for very long. 

When she is standing she will still require a court from the male before she allows much mounting, but she will start begging males for it. Just don't let her get her way. I personally don't take my females out in public while they're in heat. 

I agree with the waiting... I've read so many cons about not waiting.
My friends dog just passed away from bone cancer at 6 years old. The dog was spayed very young and it is believed that spaying early can cause or lead to bone cancer.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Some info here: Dog in Heat for Dummies?


----------



## qbchottu

If your dog is a house dog, get a doggie diaper. I use the large size and it works well. An alternative is getting a larger size boy's underwear, turning it backwards so the tail goes through the hole and line it with a maxi pad. 

I crate the female overnight and during the day, she and the male are crate rotated. I line her crate with washable sheets and doesn't have her wear the diaper when she is in there. 

A month or so before, you will might notice some quirky behavior. Some signs include frequently urination, accidents in the house, excessive thirst, clingy/loving behavior, timidness, shyness, reactivity to otherwise normal stimuli, forgetting training, inability to work and lack of focus. For example, Wiva started sleeping with me and became extremely clingy when she was coming into heat. Before, she was fine sleeping on her own bed. She also drank a lot of water and had a couple of accidents in the house so if you notice that behavior, you might need to ration water. Close to or during heat, all bets are off in terms of behavior. Some go off food, some eat a lot, some bleed for 6 weeks, some bleed for 2 weeks, some handle it well, others become total messes, some work through their heat, some can't remember the command for sit... 

I believe she is your only dog right? So that cuts down on a lot of issues. Just make sure you have a walking stick or spray when you are out with her. Be very careful after the first week or so when she starts ovulating and presenting to males. I would not walk her in the park or on the street during her heat. I would confine her to the home and leashed walks in your yard for potty. Keep her entertained in the house with new toys, games and training. It's really not as bad as it sounds and it will be over before you know it. You will wonder what you were worried about after her first heat 

On the subject of spaying, I choose not to neuter or spay my animals regardless of if they are being actively shown or bred. I don't like tampering with a problem that doesn't exist. Why put my dogs through a surgical procedure because I don't want to "deal with" issues associated with keeping an intact animal. I also like the maturity and development of intact dogs so it's a personal preference to keep them intact unless there is a medical necessity to alter them. Hope this comment doesn't de-rail your thread into a "speuter vs intact" argument  If I did spay, I would wait as long as I could to let the dog mature.


----------



## Mary&Stella

Stella will be having her 3rd heat soon, she is very loving and cuddly before her heat starts and off her food for a few days. I do not put anythin on her as the spotting is not that bad and I just wipe up after her. ( I tried a doggie pad thingie and she spazzed out!!) We do not let her out unattended, even in the back yard we are there. I have not seen any stray dogs or wondering dogs where we live but I will take no chances. We are planning on having her fixed afetr her 4th heat she will be over 2 then. I always had my females fixed (both were after 1 or 2 heats) not problems or issues later in life both lived to be great senior ladies.


----------



## vomlittlehaus

First, good for you for educating yourself. Every bitch is different. Not every cycle with the same bitch is the same. Some are, some are not. My bitch was regular for four years, then changed the length of her cycle at 5 yrs. 

For her first heat, it could be very minor and not have much discharge. You may first notice her smelling her pee, that is because it is changing in scent and she is not familiar with that. That could be an early sign of the oncoming heat. Walks in the neighborhood, dogs parks, training classes are not advisable at this time. She will be attracting any stray males to your home. She should not be left outdoors unattended. I never leave my dogs unattended outdoors EVER. But that is me. 

Since you are planning to spay her, I hear boys underpants work well. I have dog bloomers for my females, since I keep them intact. Maxi pads work extremely well. My 6yr old bitch has little to no odor. Her 1yr old daughter smells bad. So every dog is different. The one 1yr old had a heat at 9-10 months...then again at 13 months...so be prepared for the possibility of that occurring. 

I like to wait for the dog to finish growing before spay/neuter. Some bloodlines mature slower than others, so waiting as long as possible is best. Sex hormones regulate the growing. Tells the body when to grow and how much to grow. Take them away and I have seen dogs get very tall and lanky.

Length of the cycle can vary...each female is different. Some times the first heat is small and short. But that is not a given.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

I just waited one heat with Halo too, and then spayed her a couple of months later - she was 13 months old and that seemed good enough. If we waited a few more months there was the possibility she'd have a second heat, and we wanted to avoid that. We couldn't board her if she wasn't spayed, and most of the training classes wouldn't take dogs in heat so we would have been in limbo as far as signing her up for anything or risk paying for a class and having to drop out. She got spayed right before Christmas, so we were around for the next few days to keep an eye on her, and there weren't any classes going on then anyway so it worked out perfectly. 

We had her preliminary OFA x-rays done while she was under for the spay, and since the prelims showed "good" hips and "normal" elbows we didn't bother to have it re-done at 2 years old for an official rating. For normal hips, the reliability of x-rays done at 13-18 months old is over 95%, so we were confident that at worst she'd get a "fair" rating, which is still HD free.


----------



## Daytona01

Thank you for all you info,, it helped so much! My female GSD is 8 months old, with an active male around, and she has been licking a lot and eating more than she normally does, has been clinging to me. Still don't know if she is in heat but will keep a watch..Thanks again..


----------



## Arlene G

My female Shepard went into her first heat at 14 months. It was a messy smelly long month long ordeal! I wish to spay her, but in the past couple days 2 and a bit months post heat, she is spotting blood again. the boys are not attracted to her as we hike in a wooded trail system and meet boys all the time. Is it too soon for a second heat? I am not looking forward to the mess again.


----------



## middleofnowhere

Arlene - I'd talk to your vet about the symptoms. Could it be she has a UTI and that's producing the blood?

Heat cycles last 3 weeks. My 5 yo came in at 15 months but to make up for the late start she bleed through all three weeks of her cycle. I found it far easier to manage than I thought it would be. 

You can modify a pair of women's underwear (breifs) for bitch panties. cut from the center front waist to the center crotch. this becomes the back. Insert a pad or 1/2 a pad, put on the pants, tie the two sections (where you cut at the waist) together over the back. Cheap and easy unless you sacrafice high end underwear...

Jr. came in at 1 yo. Not sure how the second heat will go. I'm hoping she holds off for a full 6 months.


----------



## counter

It's been 6+ years since I had to make this same decision for Nara, but I do remember my research revealed a 4% possible increase in all of the cancers and other "bad stuff" that comes with leaving a bitch in tact by waiting to spay after the first heat. I wanted Nara to grow as large as naturally possible before spaying her, and I felt that a 4% increase was 4% too much when it comes to this sort of thing. My holistic vet agreed and explained the difference between leaving a male in tact longer, and fixing a female right before or right after her first heat cycle. I had no plans to show or breed her, and I did have an in tact male in the house who was communicating to me that Nara's first heat was about to happen soon. I got her spayed at 11 months and she has been 100% healthy her entire life to date. Her attitude towards other dogs DID in fact change, but that could've been due to her maturity or the spay, and I've never been able to determine the difference, as they both were happening around the same time. She also had numerous run-ins with off leash dogs while on leashed walks which could've contributed to her change, so she eventually would "attack to defend" as I call it. I learned to bring her under better control and stopped allowing any strange dogs to get anywhere near her knowing her new disdain.

But yeah, that 4% increase was enough cause for alarm to help me make the best decision for my girl. Let's hope it was the right decision, as I know she might still get cancer that will kill her. I don't want to think about that yet though...I don't think I'll be able to bear it, as she is my first dog.


----------



## counter

I posted to help the OP, and then realized this thread is 2 years old. Oops! I'm too late. Oh well. Haha!


----------



## Trockw1

I know this post is a few years old, but I wanted to share my experience for anyone reading now because I VERY STRONGLY disagree with not spaying your dog. While others claim it is an unnecessary procedure to make our lives easier, I sit here without my dog today because she was not spayed.
Let's start with the first potentially life threatening condition that can occur from not spaying: pyometra. This is an infection of the uterus where it fills with pus and your dog is literally dying of toxicity. You have maybe a couple of days before it kills them. Typically occurs 5-6 years of age. To put it in perspective, it was a Friday of Fourth of July weekend and my dogs typical cry closed early. I was going to wait until Tuesday to bring her when the vet was in but something didn't just feel right so I took her to a walk in. She was having emergency surgery that day. And of course, diagnosing and surgery/treatment will rub you )3k-4K.
But that is not the effect of not spaying that killed her. She was misdiagnosed with a mammary infection a little before 10 years. I knew something more was going on so I got a second opinion, they did an aspirate and felt strongly it was cancerous but would have to remove it to be sure. They did all the tests and it looked like it hadn't spread. I scheduled her surgery the next day. Come to find out it was inflammatory mammary carcinoma- an extremely aggressive and painful type of mammary cancer with a particularly poor prognosis that generally takes dogs within 3 months. Oh, and tests before didn't show but the cancer spread to her lymph nodes. Cancer treatment for this type is ridiculously expensive with a huge time commitment, that doesn't really guarantee extended life or better quality. Unfortunately I could not afford this on top of the $3k I again spend on this diagnosis/survey/treatment. She died three months later. I brought her in because her legs were swollen. It turned into leaving her there for the night, she was in icu at 130am and they were saying the blood transfusions weren't working by noon and I needed to put her to sleep. They said the cancer was making it so her blood didn't clot, she was literally bleeding to death before my eyes. I tried to push for taking her home for one more night, but they told me that eventually the blood will have no place to go, it will fill up her lungs, she will choke on it and cough it up and die painfully.
The crazy thing?? Myself and my dog could have been spared a lot of pain and heartache if she was spayed!!
Waiting just one cycle increases the chances of mammary cancer to 8%, I read on a few different website waiting after the second can increase it to a 25%-33% chance!!! PLEASE take it from someone who is still heartbroken over losing her dog, get them spayed if you are not breeding!!! When you do the research the pros far outweigh the cons. And if you hadn't I strongly suggest everyone reads up on symptoms of pyometra/mammary cancer as early detection saves lives and 1 in 3-4 of you will have a dog with mammary cancer.


----------



## middleofnowhere

Mammary cancer can be detected and the mammary removed. Hemangio is a death sentence. Pyro can be detected and survived with spaying at that time. Hemangio is a death sentence. And undetectable until it is too late.

I'm sorry Trock that your dog's cancer was not detected early enough. 

Websites are fine but finding actual studies is more helpful.


----------



## GatorDog

middleofnowhere said:


> Mammary cancer can be detected and the mammary removed. Hemangio is a death sentence. Pyro can be detected and survived with spaying at that time. Hemangio is a death sentence. And undetectable until it is too late.
> 
> I'm sorry Trock that your dog's cancer was not detected early enough.
> 
> Websites are fine but finding actual studies is more helpful.


Just because the treatment for Pyometra involves a spay does not mean that the animal will survive it. Just because you can remove a tumor does not mean that cancer has not spread. 

Trock wasn't posting for websites. This is a real account of what can happen. And probably not included in the studies of yesteryear.


----------



## selzer

I'm sorry your dog died of cancer. That really sucks and it sounds like a really nasty ordeal you went through with your elderly dog. 

I am with Middleofnowhere, though. Hemangiosarcoma and Osteosarcoma often take much younger dogs and the prognosis on those are terrible.

Even with pyo you can treat without spaying. But as it will reoccur, they do suggest spaying after you finish breeding. 

Pet owners spay in some cases to reduce the risk of pyo and mammary cancer. Which means they remove organs -- hormone generating glands to prevent a type of cancer. And they do this often very young, 4-8 months to get it done before that first heat. Those hormones are for more than reproduction. General health and behavior can be affected by their removal. I wonder why vet's don't remove teets from the dog as a preventive measure. I mean, if there are no mammary glands, than mammary cancer will not develop, right? So if you spay at 6 or 8 years, why not remove the mammary glands during that operation?


----------



## GatorDog

selzer said:


> I'm sorry your dog died of cancer. That really sucks and it sounds like a really nasty ordeal you went through with your elderly dog.
> 
> I am with Middleofnowhere, though. Hemangiosarcoma and Osteosarcoma often take much younger dogs and the prognosis on those are terrible.
> 
> Even with pyo you can treat without spaying. But as it will reoccur, they do suggest spaying after you finish breeding.
> 
> Pet owners spay in some cases to reduce the risk of pyo and mammary cancer. Which means they remove organs -- hormone generating glands to prevent a type of cancer. And they do this often very young, 4-8 months to get it done before that first heat. Those hormones are for more than reproduction. General health and behavior can be affected by their removal. I wonder why vet's don't remove teets from the dog as a preventive measure. I mean, if there are no mammary glands, than mammary cancer will not develop, right? So if you spay at 6 or 8 years, why not remove the mammary glands during that operation?


I'm very confused as to what Osteosarcoma or Hemangiosarcoma have to do with this? It's not a contest to "which cancer is worse". I mean seriously...

I have seen doctors remove the entire mammary chain before. Have you? Do you have any idea how invasive that is?


----------



## selzer

GatorDog said:


> I'm very confused as to what Osteosarcoma or Hemangiosarcoma have to do with this? It's not a contest to "which cancer is worse". I mean seriously...
> 
> I have seen doctors remove the entire mammary chain before. Have you? Do you have any idea how invasive that is?


 Early spay/neuter increases the risk of osteosarcoma and hemangiosarcoma. 

I know a lady who had her breasts removed because of her family history with breast cancer as a preventative measure. I figure a dog has 10 glands, and yes, it would be invasive, but so is a spay, especially for young dogs before the first heat cycle. I don't know that mammary glands do anything for growth and well-being, anything other than making milk for puppies, but if you are spaying, no puppies, no need for milk. 

We go in and remove ovaries, uterine horns, possibly cause incontinence, because the plumbing runs together there as a preventive. Oh, but we see how we would mutilate the dog when we go for mammary glands. If we hack up their innards as a puppy, we do not see that as mutilating them, even if it is.


----------



## Trockw1

I would rather spay than have a one in 3 chance that my dog gets cancer. What are the odds of getting what you mentioned from spaying? And yes, many dogs can survive pyometra, but often the signs are undetected until it is too late & some don't make it through surgery. For me, the facts suggest the pros largely outweigh the cons of spaying vs not.
Also she was 10, but she was by no means "elderly". Part of what made it so hard was that she was acting absolutely fine the day prior and literally the only thing that made me bring her to the er was a swollen leg (from internal bleeding that they said was related to the cancer).
We still caught it relatively early, they removed the mammary chain as they did not detect the cancer spread through X-rays/ultrasounds/etc. But the only way to really know is for doing the surgery, afterwards when they tested it they discovered it spread to the lymph nodes. I read a lot of stories like this opposed to issues with spaying. I wish someone told our family sooner, 1 in 3 chance is too high for me when it can be 0 with spaying (unless what you are suggesting has the same odds).
I recently got anther German shepherd, she will be spayed at 6 months.


----------



## Mich0903

I am new to having a GSD and not having a dog spayed after 6months. Sarah is about to be 8 months and just stopped eating a couple days ago, has been very clingy to me, and kinda moping around. I'm not sure if she's going into her first heat. I have always had my dogs spayed and neutered as soon as possible, as all except two have been rescues. So, first...I don't know what to look for, and second, my boyfriend and I are in disagreement as to get it done before or after her first heat. I've always been told it's healthier to get it done before, but he's been told the opposite. Any help to solve this??? And is there still time to have her spayed before first heat?


----------



## Momto2GSDs

Hi Mich0903 and Welcome! :greet:

For us, when we get another dog (male or female) we will not neuter/spay until 2 years old, if at all, from everything I've read about it.
*
Risks and Disadvantages of Spaying and Neutering *

Dr Jean Dodds: Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Revisiting Spaying and Neutering Dogs & Cats 
*For the individual animal and caregiver*
• Increased anesthetic and surgical complications, especially in the presence of other health issues. The risk for anesthetic-related death with all surgical procedures is low, about 0.05% for healthy dogs and 0.11% for healthy cats. However, this risk for sick dogs and cats is about 1.33% and 1.40%, respectively.
• Increased risk of obesity, which varies between dog breeds, but is independent of the age at neutering. Obesity risk in gonadectomized cats is associated with increased food intake.
• Increased risk (two-fold) in dogs of either sex for osteosarcoma; the risk increases with increasing breed size and especially dog height.
• Increased risk (five-fold in female dogs; 2.4- fold in male dogs) for hemangiosarcoma.
• Increased urinary incontinence in adulthood if female puppies spayed before 12 weeks of age. But, spaying at 4-6 months of age did not affect urinary incontinence risk later on.
• Increased urinary incontinence in spayed females, with incidence ranging from 4.9-20%.
• Increased urinary tract cancers in dogs of both sexes. Increased risk of prostate cancer in dogs (about 2% vs 0.6% in intact males).
• Increased incidence of feline lower urinary tract disease, primarily in males.
• Increased risk in male cats of stones or a plug in urethra, urethral sphincter incontinence, and urethral blockage.
• Increased risk in dogs of both sexes for adverse reactions to vaccinations (27-38% increase).
• Parallel increased risk in cats of both sexes for adverse reactions to vaccinations.
• Increased frequency of hypothyroidism in dogs, primarily females.
• Increased hormone-responsive alopecia (hair loss).
• Increased loss of cognitive function in geriatric dogs, especially in males; believed to be associated with testosterone level.
• Increased anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injury and rupture in dogs. 



Moms


----------



## ausdland

Mich0903 said:


> I am new to having a GSD and not having a dog spayed after 6months. Sarah is about to be 8 months and just stopped eating a couple days ago, has been very clingy to me, and kinda moping around. I'm not sure if she's going into her first heat. I have always had my dogs spayed and neutered as soon as possible, as all except two have been rescues. So, first...I don't know what to look for, and second, my boyfriend and I are in disagreement as to get it done before or after her first heat. I've always been told it's healthier to get it done before, but he's been told the opposite. Any help to solve this??? And is there still time to have her spayed before first heat?


Hope you decided to let her have at least one heat for best possible growth and development. My pup matured a lot after her first heat. She just spotted, didn't flow and cleaned up after herself. If your pup is allowed on carpet, that'll be a different story.


----------

