# How cold is too cold for a dog?



## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I will be moving to Chicago in a few months and I'm already worried about the winters there. My dogs are mostly outdoors (of course I sneak them in on occasion) so I'm wondering how cold is too cold for a dog/husky/GSD to be outside? Will I need to set up a space heater shed for them? 

Here in Las Vegas it gets HOT. We built my dogs an air conditioned shed in the backyard but surprisingly only my GSD uses it. I've heard it's because huskies have double coats that their upper coat absorbs heat/cold better so their body temperature is regulated better. But I have no idea about my GSD. She always seems more sensitive to temperature than my husky...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> I will be moving to Chicago in a few months and I'm already worried about the winters there. My dogs are mostly outdoors (of course I sneak them in on occasion) so I'm wondering how cold is too cold for a dog/husky/GSD to be outside? Will I need to set up a space heater shed for them?
> 
> Here in Las Vegas it gets HOT. We built my dogs an air conditioned shed in the backyard but surprisingly only my GSD uses it. I've heard it's because huskies have double coats that their upper coat absorbs heat/cold better so their body temperature is regulated better. But I have no idea about my GSD. She always seems more sensitive to temperature than my husky...


Here in Chicago, the weather can be a problem, but a bigger problem is leaving your dog outside and it getting stolen or getting out of the yard. You should probably reconsider keeping the dog inside and not outside unsupervised, there are lots of sick people that use dogs(especially dogs with lots of fur around the necks) as bait dogs


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

that comment made me sad and didn't answer my question :'-(


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

We had a pretty warm winter this year, but two winters ago, Samson didn't seem to have any issues with being outdoors in below zero weather with the wind blowing. He'd just lay in the snow and watch the cars go by. He's got very long fur and a double coat though.

I second what llombardo said. You really need to reconsider having "outside" dogs if you are going to be living in Chicago. Prime targets for the sickos who steal family pets to use as bait dogs.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

GSDs have double coats too. And I've noticed my boy loves the cold more than he loves the summer heat so it won't be an issue. Depending on where you live in Chicago (I grew up there) you will probably get a lot more complaints if you have close neighbors about dogs barking outside and such. Problem with a space heater is that it is a huge fire risk and an extremely inefficient way to heat a room. I don't think either dog would have a problem with the cold, unless its really really bad, which rarely happens. Usually its due to the wind chill that I get cold and not really the temperature outside. As long as the dogs can get out of the wind you shouldn't have a problem.

A big concern would be snow though, if they sleep in an enclosed shed outside and we get a nice dumping of snow (which we tend to do once or twice a year) you'll have no way of getting to them without shoveling A LOT.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> that comment made me sad and didn't answer my question :'-(


Yes it did....reconsider leaving the dog outside and then there are no problems with the weather..it can play in the snow in the winter, dig holes in the mud in spring, lay under a tree in the summer, and enjoy the fall....all supervised of course. It really is NOT a good idea to leave this breed of dog unattended and I say this from past experiences, it happens and happens all the time as sad as it is


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Your question was about weather tolerance but it is more tempting to address the issue of why they are outside dogs.
GSDs can tolerate cold a lot better than heat. Huskies can tolerate both better than GSDs. Thick fur actually helps in the heat to protect skin from the sun. Dogs lose heat through their tongues and their paws.
If you care enough about your dogs to have an A/C shed then in Chicago (if they must remain outside) you will need a shed with both A/C and a space heater.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Chicago's winters are definitely not too cold for a GSD. I live in a much colder climate and my dogs are just fine. In fact, there's still some ice on the lakes and Cedar just went swimming the other day. GSD's do just fine in cold weather.

With that said, what's the point of having a dog if you leave it outside all day long?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

martemchik said:


> GSDs have double coats too. And I've noticed my boy loves the cold more than he loves the summer heat so it won't be an issue. Depending on where you live in Chicago (I grew up there) you will probably get a lot more complaints if you have close neighbors about dogs barking outside and such. Problem with a space heater is that it is a huge fire risk and an extremely inefficient way to heat a room. I don't think either dog would have a problem with the cold, unless its really really bad, which rarely happens. Usually its due to the wind chill that I get cold and not really the temperature outside. As long as the dogs can get out of the wind you shouldn't have a problem.
> 
> A big concern would be snow though, if they sleep in an enclosed shed outside and we get a nice dumping of snow (which we tend to do once or twice a year) you'll have no way of getting to them without shoveling A LOT.


A heat lamp would IMO maybe be safer than a space heater.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Both dogs should be able to tolerate a Chicago winter as long as they have shelter for really lousy days and nights. Our two GSD's love the cold weather, Annie especially. She'll stay outside for hours in driving snow and sleet. 
For an outside shelter keep it on the small side, it'll hold the heat better. Lower the ceiling if you can. Heat rises, you want to keep the heat down near the dogs, not 8' in the air. Build a subfloor and insulate it along with the side walls and ceiling. You can convert a 8' shed into a dogs palace without much problem.

My brother moved from the Chicago area to Las Vegas btw. He says he'd rather fry than freeze.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

Yeah you should just learn to own indoor dogs then you would never have to worry about weather problems. Whats the point of having a dog that isnt part of the family the majority of the time? (All winter when its too cold, or all summer currently when its too hot to be outside)

I guess I could say that I own squirrels, and birds, and worms. They are just as close to being part of my pack as your dogs.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

TheNamesNelson said:


> Yeah you should just learn to own indoor dogs then you would never have to worry about weather problems. Whats the point of having a dog that isnt part of the family the majority of the time? (All winter when its too cold, or all summer currently when its too hot to be outside)


The OP has religious beliefs that I think make keeping the dogs in the house all the time unexceptable. Cut her some slack. 
She has two dogs that are more than able to spend a LOT of time out in the elements. Physically there's no reason why they can't live outside. 
Mentally, as long as she spends time with them they'll be fine. Dogs don't have to be with their humans 24/7 to make good pets.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Whiteshepherds said:


> The OP has religious beliefs that I think make keeping the dogs in the house all the time unexceptable. Cut her some slack.
> She has two dogs that are more than able to spend a LOT of time out in the elements. Physically there's no reason why they can't live outside.
> Mentally, as long as she spends time with them they'll be fine. Dogs don't have to be with their humans 24/7 to make good pets.


I think there may be some family issues as well. I agree, if she's spending time with the dogs and they're well-cared for there's really no problem. 

Zeeva, please do seriously consider security measures like locking kennels with padlocks to keep thieves from stealing them. That would be tragic.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Whiteshepherds said:


> The OP has religious beliefs that I think make keeping the dogs in the house all the time unexceptable. Cut her some slack.
> She has two dogs that are more than able to spend a LOT of time out in the elements. Physically there's no reason why they can't live outside.
> Mentally, as long as she spends time with them they'll be fine. Dogs don't have to be with their humans 24/7 to make good pets.


:thumbup:

Why have dogs that were bred to herd sheep, go to war, track criminals, find narcotics etc. just to keep them inside all the time?


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks Whiteshepherds Emoore and Jack's Dad for standing up for me. I didn't think the outdoor thing was such a big issue :-( can someone show me articles or enlighten me about this as I am definitely open to changing my mind about how much time they spend inside if it is psychologically damaging to them. But a few snide and rude remarks about my lifestyle (especially without knowing my background) won't do the trick. 

I've never had people bring this outdoor thing up as an issue before; not on my other dog forum, not from other dog owners...never :'-(

I am sorry that my lifestyle with my dogs upsets some of you. Everyone's circumstances are different and if you really want to know my reasons you are more than free to PM. I don't hide anything. Also, I am a very sensitive person so I kindly ask you try and understand as I am more than willing to change my mind if the right type of research/experience is out there regarding this outdoor thing as a problem.

Anyway, I didn't want this thread to become about what it did become about (wording???) but thank you for your suggestions. I will do more research and keep this thread as a reference this winter...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Zeeva, I have no idea of the weather in chicago (i'm in CT but I hear it can be quite cold. 

I think as long as you have a good 'house' (as in dog house/shed whatever) that is insulated and warm for them, they'll be ok. I wouldn't use a space heater, they make me paranoid, as in "fire"! Not sure about a heat lamp, I think that would take electricity involved? I'd probably worry about fire with that as well. Something really well insulated, and maybe "hay" would most likely be fine for them.

I WOULD worry about theft more than anything tho. Not sure how you could really keep them safe if someone was intent on stealing them 

You'll probably just play it by ear when you get there and see how things go.

As for inside dogs, I will say the majority of people here, most likely have their dogs living inside their homes. Most feel, that dogs are a part of the family, and thus, should be included in living in our houses. Not "everyone", so don't feel like your the only one, there are also many who's dogs live outside and may never see the inside of a house. It's all about the quality of time spent with one's pets I think, whether they are inside or out and that they are taken well care of.

AND PEEPS, before making rude or unkind remarks about how someone's animals live in or outside their house, it would have been 'nicer' to maybe say "gee can you tell us why your dogs are not allowed in the house?"

We have members who are of other cultures/different beliefs on this board and those beliefs/cultures should be respected as well as maybe trying not to hurt one's feelings before you ( general you) jump down their throat.

Ok off my mod stand


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Zeeva said:


> I didn't think the outdoor thing was such a big issue :-( can someone show me articles or enlighten me about this as I am definitely open to changing my mind about how much time they spend inside if it is psychologically damaging to them. But a few snide and rude remarks about my lifestyle (especially without knowing my background) won't do the trick.


Keep in mind that most people here don't know anything about you, so please don't take their comments personally. Most of us have GSDs as companions, and since _all _of us live indoors in a house, we want our companions to be with us, where we spend the majority of our time. And that's where our companions would prefer to be as well - wherever we are most of the time.

The amount of human interaction an outdoor dog gets is directly related to how much time the owner spends outdoors vs indoors. Someone living on a farm is obviously going to be outdoors quite a bit, but the rest of us, not nearly as much. There is a definite bias on the board against dogs that live outdoors - again, please don't take that personally, it's not about you. As others have pointed out, dogs left alone outdoors can be at risk of being injured, (a dog owned by a former board member was shot with a BB gun while in an outdoor kennel), poisoned, (that's happened) or stolen, (that's also happened). Outdoor dogs are often neglected as well, or people may just spend less time training or interacting with them because you don't need to teach house manners to dogs that don't spend time indoors. 

That may not apply to you, but how would anyone know that? How would anyone know if you have a good reason for having outdoor dogs if they don't ask? A religious or cultural reason is be very different than if someone just doesn't want to deal with the shedding, or maybe all their dogs growing up were outdoor dogs, and they don't see any reason to do things differently now. That's why you're getting responses that go beyond your original question.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

TheNamesNelson said:


> Yeah you should just learn to own indoor dogs then you would never have to worry about weather problems. Whats the point of having a dog that isnt part of the family the majority of the time? (All winter when its too cold, or all summer currently when its too hot to be outside)
> 
> I guess I could say that I own squirrels, and birds, and worms. They are just as close to being part of my pack as your dogs.


And here we go again......
My dogs "come" inside but they most certainly do not "live" inside.....they are just as much apart of our family as your dogs are apart of your family......my dogs have a wonderful life.....being dogs....there is always more than one way to skin a cat.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> A heat lamp would IMO maybe be safer than a space heater.


good suggestion...I agree


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I think there may be some family issues as well. I agree, if she's spending time with the dogs and they're well-cared for there's really no problem.
> 
> Zeeva, please do seriously consider security measures like locking kennels with padlocks to keep thieves from stealing them. That would be tragic.


Another good idea.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Here in Canada (Northern Ontario) we will spend all day outside ice fishing or hiking with temps of -25*C(about -13*F). It doesn't affect Molly at all!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Zeeva, like others have said the biggest issue with indoor vs. outdoor dogs is that, _in general_, dogs who live outdoors do not get to spend nearly as much time with their humans as dogs who live indoors. However, if someone is committed to spending daily quality time with their dogs, providing for their comfort in all weather conditions, and keeping them from getting stolen/tormented/poisoned by kids and thugs. . . I don't have a problem with outdoor dogs. It's just much easier to do all of those things if the dog is outdoors. In general, it's easier for an outdoor dog to become a piece of lawn furniture that you pretty much ignore. With an indoor dog you can't ignore them. But you certainly can have a good relationship with, and provide proper care to, an outdoor dog.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Zeeva, like others have said the biggest issue with indoor vs. outdoor dogs is that, _in general_, dogs who live outdoors do not get to spend nearly as much time with their humans as dogs who live indoors. However, if someone is committed to spending daily quality time with their dogs, providing for their comfort in all weather conditions, and keeping them from getting stolen/tormented/poisoned by kids and thugs. . . I don't have a problem with outdoor dogs. It's just much easier to do all of those things if the dog is outdoors. In general, it's easier for an outdoor dog to become a piece of lawn furniture that you pretty much ignore. With an indoor dog you can't ignore them. But you certainly can have a good relationship with, and provide proper care to, an outdoor dog.


I totally agree. Our dogs are indoor but if they preferred to sleep outside and I wanted to accomadate their needs I would take the appropriate safety measures mentioned by others. We happen to be outdoor people and part of Winter, Spring, Summer & Fall we're all outside together. So my point is, having an outdoor dog doesn't necessarily mean they aren't getting attention.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Emoore said:


> . . . I don't have a problem with outdoor dogs. *It's just much easier to do all of those things if the dog is outdoors.* In general, it's easier for an outdoor dog to become a piece of lawn furniture that you pretty much ignore. With an indoor dog you can't ignore them. ....


I mean indoors.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

sparra said:


> And here we go again......
> My dogs "come" inside but they most certainly do not "live" inside.....they are just as much apart of our family as your dogs are apart of your family......my dogs have a wonderful life.....being dogs....there is always more than one way to skin a cat.


I want to say this post could possibly set off an argument....see I'm learning

This is a strong opinion but probably not the opinion of many pet owners.In my situation it would be, the dogs go outside, but they most certainly do not live outside. I personally don't agree with any dog or cat living out doors, if they are family pets they should be with the family...we wouldn't put our kids outside and lots of people(me included) regard our pets as family/kids. Back in the day this was probably more common and not looked at as risky. There are way to many dangers outside unsupervised. I could never come home and see my dog or cat dead in the street because it was outside and it got out and I left it there...the guilt would eat me alive. Again this is just a personal opinion and I've never had to deal with it because I don't know anyone personally that has a dog living outside, I don't even think I know anyone that lets their cat outside It is just not common where I come from or where I live now.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Not sure about a heat lamp, I think that would take electricity involved? I'd probably worry about fire with that as well. Something really well insulated, and maybe "hay" would most likely be fine for them.


Heat lamps are often used in small farming type communities because it is how we keep our baby chicks warm.  Chicks or dogs can get under the lamp and be warm or mover further away for comfort. Just make sure it is up far enough your puppies can't chew on it. Yes they do need electricity, but then so do space heaters. It really doesn't add much to your bill. Often acreage houses will have sheds with electricity already in them. One thing to look for when looking at houses. Also make sure you have the non freeze faucets to get water to your animals as well.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Emoore said:


> keeping them from getting stolen/tormented/poisoned by kids and thugs. . . I don't have a problem with outdoor dogs.



In todays world I would love to find a place that none of these things happen. Therefore if someone can't guarantee any of the above plus the risk of escape, another dog getting in and attacking your dog, the dog eating a twig and getting sick...whatever it is then its just to big of a chance to take But I do agree with the rest of the post...its just to easy to forget they are there


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

My family dog (a golden retriever not a shepherd) lived pretty much his entire life outside and it never seemed to bother him. He had a dog house (not a huge one because when they're too big their body heat can't keep them warm enough. Better to have one just big enough for them to be comfortable in). We also had tarp around his kennel so that the wind couldn't get at him. He was fine.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> My family dog (a golden retriever not a shepherd) lived pretty much his entire life outside and it never seemed to bother him. He had a dog house (not a huge one because when they're too big their body heat can't keep them warm enough. Better to have one just big enough for them to be comfortable in). We also had tarp around his kennel so that the wind couldn't get at him. He was fine.


So purely out of curiosity....how much time did people spend with him and when he was brought home was he brought home to be a family pet? Do you think he would have been more comfortable in the house with his family? I know for a fact that if I tried to put my golden outside by himself he would not like it at all. He would be at the door crying to come in. Golden's are VERY people oriented and to take that away from them is cruel. They are such happy dogs and just today I had him tied up outside and I ran in for a minute..he was by the door looking in the house and crying waiting for me. I have never met a golden that didn't want human contact at all times, so unless I lived outside with him that wouldn't work even for a minute


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

lombardo, I don't think your idea of how pets should live is that different from many others.

Mine are indoor pets, (3 dogs/4 cats) yes the dogs go out with supervision, they've never spent a nite outside, I was raised with pets like this and wouldn't have it any other way. 

So your opinion/ideas are not as unpopular as you may think


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Chicago will never get too cold for a german shepherd, especially if you allow them to build up a winter coat and give them an adequate dog shelter. You won't need a heater.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

sparra said:


> And here we go again......
> My dogs "come" inside but they most certainly do not "live" inside.....they are just as much apart of our family as your dogs are apart of your family......my dogs have a wonderful life.....being dogs....there is always more than one way to skin a cat.


My dogs are in more than they are out but are out a lot during the day.

They sleep in the house at night. 

Dogs like what they are exposed to. 

If you keep a dog by your side all the time and in the house all the time then they will not know anything different. So of course they will not want to be outside.

In my opinion this topic goes off track because as soon as someone mentions (heavens forbid) a GSD outside then the inside people assume that the dog is thrown outside and forgotten.

I'll bet there aren't ten people on this forum that would do that to their dogs.

It happens but anyone who would do that to their dog wouldn't treat their dog well if for some reason it had to stay in.
It's the owners not the dogs.

Many people fall somewhere in between so it's not an either or situation.

Sparra is right. It's not where your dog is, it's your relationship and time with your dog.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I want to say this post could possibly set off an argument....see I'm learning
> 
> This is a strong opinion but probably not the opinion of many pet owners.In my situation it would be, the dogs go outside, but they most certainly do not live outside. I personally don't agree with any dog or cat living out doors, if they are family pets they should be with the family...we wouldn't put our kids outside and lots of people(me included) regard our pets as family/kids. Back in the day this was probably more common and not looked at as risky. There are way to many dangers outside unsupervised. I could never come home and see my dog or cat dead in the street because it was outside and it got out and I left it there...the guilt would eat me alive. Again this is just a personal opinion and I've never had to deal with it because I don't know anyone personally that has a dog living outside, I don't even think I know anyone that lets their cat outside It is just not common where I come from or where I live now.


I am not trying to start an argument.....simply pointing out that not all people agree with how YOU feel.

Do you know my situation and how I spend time with my dogs??
The post I quoted was a HUGE assumption in my opinion.
Not all people who keep dogs outside neglect and spend no time with them and that assumption is made on this forum all the time.
I would be bold enough to say that I spend more time with my dogs than a lot of people on here whose dogs are inside all the time because of my lifestyle. But people saying that because they spend the majority of their time outside (in my case herding sheep, swimming in dams, riding on the ute, playing chasies in the yard, helping us garden, supervising the fencing etc) that they are not as much apart of our family than the dog who is crated for 8 hours while their owner is at work is just not accurate. My GSD is currently sitting at my feet as I type this but he doesn't live in my house. After typing this my 3yr old son and I will be heading outdoors to mow lawns, check sheep etc and he will be right there.....but when we sit at the table to have our lunch he will be waiting on the back verandah snoozing cause he is tired, waiting for the next lot of activities.
I do not compare how I treat my dogs with how I treat my child. My dog is my dog....not my child.....and that is how _*I*_ feel....
Yes is gets under my skin when people make assumptions as was made here about the OP without knowing the full story.
Sorry if you thought my post was trying to cause trouble....it wasn't...I just found the post I responded to be very single minded.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> lombardo, I don't think your idea of how pets should live is that different from many others.
> 
> Mine are indoor pets, (3 dogs/4 cats) yes the dogs go out with supervision, they've never spent a nite outside, I was raised with pets like this and wouldn't have it any other way.
> 
> So your opinion/ideas are not as unpopular as you may think


You are probably right Diane as far as people on the forum are concerned but not necessarily in the world outside (of the forum). 

I live in cattle, vineyard, and horse country and most of the dogs around here are both indoor and outdoor but spend lots of time outdoors. Some of them actually do what they were bred for and that involves working outside in all kinds of weather.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Syaoransbear said:


> Chicago will never get too cold for a german shepherd, especially if you allow them to build up a winter coat and give them an adequate dog shelter. You won't need a heater.



I agree, I think the summers can be an issue. If it gets really hot and it usually does, they advise that dogs aren't left outside, in vehicles, etc. There are certain rules that one would have to follow to have a dog living outside in Chicago and if those rules are not followed or the dog is a nuisance then they can be taken away or the people fined.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jack's Dad said:


> I live in cattle, vineyard, and horse country and most of the dogs around here are both indoor and outdoor but spend lots of time outdoors. Some of them actually do what they were bred for and that involves working outside in all kinds of weather.


I grew up with working ranch dogs that were with people from sunup to sundown. The only time they weren't with people were if we were all sleeping, eating, or in church. Other than that, somebody was working outside and the dogs were with him/her. These days, though, most of the outdoor dogs I see are ignored and neglected and as a result are nuisance barkers and destroyers of property. Unless you work outdoors on your property every day, I honestly think it takes more commitment to raise an outdoor dog correctly than an indoor one.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Emoore said:


> I grew up with working ranch dogs that were with people from sunup to sundown. The only time they weren't with people were if we were all sleeping, eating, or in church. Other than that, somebody was working outside and the dogs were with him/her. These days, though, most of the outdoor dogs I see are ignored and neglected and as a result are nuisance barkers and destroyers of property. Unless you work outdoors on your property every day, I honestly think it takes more commitment to raise an outdoor dog correctly than an indoor one.


If we are now talking about neglected outdoor dogs like what you mentioned I would agree with you.

Where we disagree is I consider leaving a dog in a crate for ten to twelve hours a day while people are at work neglect.
They can be nuisance barkers in a crate althoughit won't be heard as far away.
A large percentage of those on this forum will not agree with me about crating but I really don't care. We all can have different views about what neglect is and the roll that dogs play in our lives.
Just for the record Jack is with me most of the time inside, outside, in the car almost everywhere I go. When his baby sister is less the"wild child" she will do the same.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jack's Dad said:


> Where we disagree is I consider leaving a dog in a crate for ten to twelve hours a day while people are at work neglect.


Me too. 

My Lord, I can't remember the last time I was out of the house for more than 4 or 5 hours at a stretch. It was before we got Kopper, I'm sure of that. At my lunch hour on my long days, I spend 20 minutes driving home, 20 minutes playing with the dogs, and 20 minutes driving back. Even then they're alone for 4 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the afternoon.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Me too.
> 
> My Lord, I can't remember the last time I was out of the house for more than 4 or 5 hours at a stretch. It was before we got Kopper, I'm sure of that. At my lunch hour on my long days, I spend 20 minutes driving home, 20 minutes playing with the dogs, and 20 minutes driving back. Even then they're alone for 4 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the afternoon.



I'm lucky because my son comes home in the middle of the day to let our 3 out--only one is crated at this time(the puppy) but as soon as she can be trusted she will not be in a crate. A crate should only be a tool for training not to house the dog all day every day


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

llombardo said:


> So purely out of curiosity....how much time did people spend with him and when he was brought home was he brought home to be a family pet? Do you think he would have been more comfortable in the house with his family? I know for a fact that if I tried to put my golden outside by himself he would not like it at all. He would be at the door crying to come in. Golden's are VERY people oriented and to take that away from them is cruel. They are such happy dogs and just today I had him tied up outside and I ran in for a minute..he was by the door looking in the house and crying waiting for me. I have never met a golden that didn't want human contact at all times, so unless I lived outside with him that wouldn't work even for a minute


It would have worked just fine if you would have started that way. Yes he was brought home to be a family pet. I was about...7? or so when he was brought home and I don't know about you but at my house kids were to be outside playing and not in the house vegging so yes the dog did get a lot of attention, as we spent the majority of our time outside. Would he have rather lived inside? Maybe so, but was it cruel to keep him outside? Absolutely not. He had food, water, shelter, attention, heck I showed the crazy boy in 4-H obedience so I spent quite a lot of time training him. He was my escort everywhere I went outside and my best friend growing up. He lived a good life.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> In my opinion this topic goes off track because as soon as someone mentions (heavens forbid) a GSD outside then the inside people assume that the dog is thrown outside and forgotten.


Amen.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

A dog living outside in California or Texas isn't the same as a dog living outside in Chicago. Pay attention to details.
A dog playing outside in Chicago and a dog living outside in Chicago are also not the same thing.
A dog living outside in Chicago should AT LEAST have access to a warm shelter that has some heat provided. There are many types of safe space heaters other than heat lamps. The same goes for summers: the dog should have access to shade or A/C if possible AT LEAST.
JMHO


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> A dog living outside in California or Texas isn't the same as a dog living outside in Chicago. Pay attention to details.
> A dog playing outside in Chicago and a dog living outside in Chicago are also not the same thing.
> A dog living outside in Chicago should AT LEAST have access to a warm shelter that has some heat provided. There are many types of safe space heaters other than heat lamps. The same goes for summers: the dog should have access to shade or A/C if possible AT LEAST.
> JMHO


Details! Like dogs from herding breeds with origins in cold snowy parts of Europe.

Maybe they brought the dogs in at night or when it snowed and left the sheep to the wolves.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Jack's Dad said:


> Details! Like dogs from herding breeds with origins in cold snowy parts of Europe.
> 
> Maybe they brought the dogs in at night or when it snowed and left the sheep to the wolves.


Touche'
Certainly wouldn't want those Chicago sheep to get eaten by the wolves.
Why subject our dogs needlessly to extremes of temperature?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> A dog living outside in Chicago should AT LEAST have access to a warm shelter that has some heat provided. There are many types of safe space heaters other than heat lamps. The same goes for summers: the dog should have access to shade or A/C if possible AT LEAST.
> JMHO


Wow a/c for dogs? I may not know anything about living in Chicago, but I do know about living in Arizona. It was 122 degrees the day my daughter was born. As long as dogs had shade and water they were fine. My dogs usually had access to inside and outside. Allthough there were times I had to rotate because we had visiting dogs. Often on hot days they would prefer to be in the shade of the back porch than inside in the a/c.

Because they are used to the heat winters are tough. They don't get the big coats like dogs in colder states do. That is why on nights it would freeze heat lamps would go up. I lived across the wash from several greyhound kennels. They didn't even get the heat lamps. Although I think they had straw in their houses. When we moved to Nevada my dogs went from choosing to be mostly outdoor to choosing to lay in front of the fire inside. LOL Many dogs like the snow. Mine mostly did not.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> Touche'
> Certainly wouldn't want those Chicago sheep to get eaten by the wolves.
> Why subject our dogs needlessly to extremes of temperature?


Actually I _don't think too many_ people do needlessly subject dogs to extremes of temp.
It just bugs me that a lot of people act like these dogs are fragile china and any itty bitty stressor will fracture them.
Whatever they do in Chicago is working because they haven't any wolf attacks on sheep in many years.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

I live in michigan. There's no way I would leave my dog outside through the winters. If you insist they will need GOOD shelter and heating. Your dogs are beautiful, let them inside.

In MI: winters can be mild (30s) or brutal (high of 10 low of negative 5 or lower) The husky would be okay in the 30s but he/she would be more comfortable with heat. The GSD will not be ok in 30s or lower.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am in NE Ohio, and that is not that different than Chicago I think. 

It gets cold here, usually. Usually winters have temperatures below 0F, often -10F. They need to have a good solid shelter -- properly sized, not too big or they will not be able to keep themselves warm, and some insulating material, preferably straw, and they can manage it. But keeping them watered is another story. 

Usually it is really cold here, even in March. But this winter I have been able to use my hose most of the days. Usually the hose freezes in November and is done until end of March or April -- after the last hangers-on of snow drifts finally yield up the spirit. 

But poor Bear. Yes, Bear LOVES water, but after committing myself the other day, I thought maybe I had gone too far. BearCub is in heat, and she somehow managed to get FILTHY. So I went inside, got my leashes and my bottle of medicated shampoo, hooked her, cross tied her and doused her down with the hose, and then soaped her up. Using my bare hands for this I suddenly realized that it is MARCH! Then I took the hose and went to town removing all the the shampoo. 

My conscience was beating me up and telling me to bring her in and crate her until she was dry. But the sun was shining out there. I decided that if she was cold she would go into her dog house. I put her back in her kennel. When I came back through ten minutes later, she is ON TOP of the dog house taking a snooze. 

That was about five days ago. There have been no ill-effects of being bathed outside in March in NE Ohio. Sometimes I think maybe we pamper them a little too much. Bear was inside today, she still smells like shampoo, and I am certain that, given the chance, she would ROLL in a slimey muddy water hole.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

vicky2200 said:


> I live in michigan. There's no way I would leave my dog outside through the winters. If you insist they will need GOOD shelter and heating. Your dogs are beautiful, let them inside.
> 
> In MI: winters can be mild (30s) or brutal (high of 10 low of negative 5 or lower) The husky would be okay in the 30s but he/she would be more comfortable with heat. The GSD will not be ok in 30s or lower.


Lmao I walked Chrono the other day in 0C(32F) weather in just yoga pants and a tank top. I would be shocked if _any_ dog found that to be too cold, let alone a german shepherd.

My dog was fine outside in an unheated dog house at night in the -30's. If we brought him inside, he'd spend the night panting and whining to go outside because his winter coat was so thick.

Done gradually, those temperatures aren't extreme. Throwing a dog that never goes outside into -30 weather isn't a good idea, but if the dog has gotten used to the weather their coat will be thick enough that they will be pretty comfortable.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Syaoransbear said:


> Chicago will never get too cold for a german shepherd, especially if you allow them to build up a winter coat and give them an adequate dog shelter. You won't need a heater.


 
Yep, shouldn't be a problem.

Zeeva, can you dogs come into the garage?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

_In my opinion this topic goes off track because as soon as someone mentions (heavens forbid) a GSD outside then the inside people assume that the dog is thrown outside and forgotten.
_

Personally it has nothing to do with the dog being a german shepherd or not....my opinion is based on any breed of dog. The problem here along with the elements in the summer and winter is the safety issue. I was born and raised in Chicago..I know what goes on in Chicago and I'm telling everyone that its not a good idea to keep a pet outdoors for MANY reasons. Chicago is not a farm area, most houses are less then 10 feet apart..these dogs will have to live outside with rats, raccoons, coyotes(which have less to eat in the city and attack dogs of all sizes quite often and they can jump a 6 ft fence without a problem-seen that one) and whatever else roams into the city or surrounding city. Then you have the outbreaks of parvo and other diseases because people don't take care of their pets. People will call the police on you if the dog makes a peep and then animal control gets involved and that is a complete mess. Then there is the issue of stolen pets which is very common, lots of people steal them and resell them or fight them. So it doesn't matter if you live in California, Arizona, Australia, Iowa, Wisconsin, or Ohio..its not Chicago and that is how it is in Chicago.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Nothing wrong with pointing out what life in Chicago is like but the Op asked how cold was too cold for GSD's in Your area.

I was born in Los Angeles and it has both good and unsafe areas.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> Nothing wrong with pointing out what life in Chicago is like but the Op asked how cold was too cold for GSD's in Your area.
> 
> I was born in Los Angeles and it has both good and unsafe areas.


You are 100% correct, but the intentions are to leave the dog outside and the concern is the safety of the dog in the cold or hot, but that is not by far the only issue that the OP needs to be concerned with. I'm just pointing out many other factors that come into play. In fact the weather would not even be an issue for me if I had the intention to leave the dog outside and living in Chicago. Air conditioning, shade, heaters, tarps, dog houses, garages cover all of that..the other stuff is not controllable and the OP needs to be aware of the dangers that are very real. Back in the day there were many safe areas in Chicago and a few bad areas...now a days none of the areas are safe anymore..I can't think of an area that is in Chicago(not including the suburbs) that I would consider safe


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I appreciate your concern. I appreciate the knowledge you have instilled in me about your city. I will keep it all in mind when I look for a home there...


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Zeeva are you actually moving to the city (Chicago) or suburbs?


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## hchorney1 (Mar 5, 2012)

Zeeva said:


> I appreciate your concern. I appreciate the knowledge you have instilled in me about your city. I will keep it all in mindf when I look for a home there...


Like a few of the other members, I live in Chicagoland. It seems like you haven't chosen a new home yet, so good luck on the new home hunt. 
I have to agree with the others, depending on the area I might be concerned about someone taking your dogs. Do your homework on the area and you should be just fine. 
That being said, I love living here except for the winters and I've never had a problem with people stealing pets in my current suburb (which is in the boondocks, but worth it).
As for the weather, it can be brutal in winter, but as long as the dogs acclimate properly before it sets in, they will be fine.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

it answered your question. keep your dogs inside.



llombardo said:


> Here in Chicago, the weather can be a problem, but a bigger problem is leaving your dog outside and it getting stolen or getting out of the yard. You should probably reconsider keeping the dog inside and not outside unsupervised, there are lots of sick people that use dogs(especially dogs with lots of fur around the necks) as bait dogs





Zeeva said:


> that comment made me sad and didn't answer my question :'-(


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> it answered your question. keep your dogs inside.


doggiedad:

Nope, didn't answer the question.

It may have provided added information that may be useful but she asked about cold. As in low temperatures.
She did not ask about gang bangers, killers, dog thieves, or any other types of unsavory characters that may be lurking about.

You would give the same advice if she was moving to Hawaii.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> doggiedad:
> 
> Nope, didn't answer the question.
> 
> ...


I said the weather could be a problem..I just didn't go into details about the weather


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

read llombardo's post. it answers the question. how do you
know what advice i'll give about anything? oh wait, i guess 
advice is different for someone living in Hawaii or in the sticks.



Jack's Dad said:


> doggiedad:
> 
> Nope, didn't answer the question.
> 
> ...


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> read llombardo's post. it answers the question. how do you
> know what advice i'll give about anything? oh wait, i guess
> advice is different for someone living in Hawaii or in the sticks.


Forget it. I was making a funny. Hawaii is not cold. How people choose to deal with weather and their dogs, hot/cold is their own business.

I'll talk to emoore she understands my sense of humor.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Here in Chicago, the weather can be a problem, but a bigger problem is leaving your dog outside and it getting stolen or getting out of the yard. You should probably reconsider keeping the dog inside and not outside unsupervised, there are lots of sick people that use dogs(especially dogs with lots of fur around the necks) as bait dogs



Where does it say how cold is too cold? Weather can be a problem?


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Jack's Dad said:


> Dogs like what they are exposed to.


Not so much. Tell that to the foster dude. If he's tethered outside alone for even a short time, he parks his butt by the back door and wants nothing more than to come inside. He never knew a life inside a house from 10 weeks to 10 months. He's thinkin' it's pretty dang awesome inside a house. He does not want to be outside alone anymore.

What they're exposed to, or used to, surely plays a large part, but I also think some dogs just want to be inside with the family more than others and some dogs prefer the outdoors. So what's wrong with all this, IMHO, is if you have a dog that really prefers the indoors, but isn't allowed to live there.



sparra said:


> ....My dog is my dog....not my child.....and that is how _*I*_ feel....


Understand that many people on this forum, myself included, *do* see our furbabies as our actual children. I'm an empty nester, so they really are all I have day in and day out, to take care of, to spend time with. Speaking for myself, only, I wouldn't sleep if my dogs were outside. Too many possible problems. Some nasty kids causing trouble. A rabid animal. Whatever. When they're inside with me, I know they won't be injured, etc. 

Just trying to give you a little perspective on why you're receiving some stuff about outside dogs.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Can't speak for Chicago, but where I live few people keep their dogs outside, it just is not safe. The kids will, and do, torment the dogs relentlessly and there are far too many roaming dog aggressive dogs that will try to get through your fence to get to your dogs to fight. 

Just a couple of months ago my vet showed me a German Shepherd she had in her care that they thought would not make it. It looked like an alien dog, it was so swelled with infection. When its owners were at work, two pit bulls broke through their six foot wooden privacy fence and mauled this dog nearly to death. He had very little flesh flesh left around his neck, it was mostly a huge gaping wound.

There are far too many horrible things outside that can happen to your dog, depending on where you live, with weather being the least of your worries.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Zeeva are you actually moving to the city (Chicago) or suburbs?


Suburbs...


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Zeeva said:


> Suburbs...


 That's a lot different than living right in the city. Once you find your house you probably want to check the local ordinances for dogs and go from there. We lived in Arlington Heights and had dogs, but it's been a long time, I'm sure the laws have changed.


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