# Slight Aggression towards other dogs - well socialized



## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

Hello All.

I have an intact 12 month old male GSD. He has been in daycare since he was 3 months old and has been off leash before than as well. Daycare staff have made comments that Jaeger would never hurt a fly he is so sweet, gentle and submissive. He has never showed any aggression towards any human, cat or wild life. 

Very recently we have noticed he has begun to snarl at other dogs off leash and on leash. His patience for playful dogs is rather limited. About 3 weeks ago he went after a lab puppy (who also was intact) nothing happened he listens well. So I was able to stop him and go. 

Today however he was in daycare and bit a puppy that wouldn't leave him alone. The staff say that Jaeger gave several warnings to the puppy before the bite (not separating them is a different concern). 

I would like to nip this aggression in the butt as he is a huge 75 lb dog (and growing) that can't afford to be aggressive. 

I poke him in the ribs when I see him snarl at other dogs and say NO. I cant do anything with him at daycare.

Any tips that I can curb this behaviour for when I am present and when I am not (daycare)? I prefer doing the training at home instead of obedience but if I have to take him due to aggression I will. 

Thank you all for your tips.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

He's a growing intact male that is starting to mature. Most people will tell you that this is something you're going to have to manage and you won't be able to train him to not do anything. The issue with "correcting" the growling/snarling is that he'll just stop growling/snarling and will just go for the bite when he's had too much.

Most of us with intact males do not let them interact with other males for a long time. I make sure to really watch my boy when he's around unknown dogs (like in a dog park setting) and make sure he doesn't start getting aggravated by other dogs. I'm actually very surprised that the day care allows your boy to go there, every single one around me only allows altered animals past the age of 6 months. Just because he gave the puppy the warning, doesn't make how he acted alright. I'm sure if damage was done, the puppy's owner wouldn't be as understanding about the situation.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

My very personal, non-expert, opinion is that it sounds like you don't really have an aggression issue as much as a training issue. He sounds to me like he just gets annoyed with other dogs and when enough is enough he makes it apparent. It also sounds to me more of like a trend with puppies and he doesn't like them in his space. 

For when you are around, and he growls at another dog, I would distract him with something, a ball if he's driven, treats and do OB, basically get him accustomed to the idea that another dog in the vacinity means he gets to have fun with you.

Not an expert by any means so maybe someone else will come along with a better idea, but it just doesn't sound like a reall "agggression" issue.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

It seems your dog is training puppies to have manners. First comes posture, then growl, then nip. This progression teaches the puppy to abide by warning signals so it can understand communication later in life. If you are present, you can help your dog by controlling the puppy before the nip. If your doggy daycare staff doesn't understand this behavior, I would find different accommodations for your dog during the day.

JMHO


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

David Winners said:


> It seems your dog is training puppies to have manners. First comes posture, then growl, then nip. This progression teaches the puppy to abide by warning signals so it can understand communication later in life. If you are present, you can help your dog by controlling the puppy before the nip. If your doggy daycare staff doesn't understand this behavior, I would find different accommodations for your dog during the day.
> 
> JMHO


Agree completely!!! The other dogs are annoying him and were probably to young to really pay attention to his warnings/body language. Sounds kind of messed up but I don't think there is anything wrong with you dog saying he doesn't want to play, especially if he isn't ACTUALLY hurting any one. When dogs correct it normally sounds way worse then it actually is.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> I poke him in the ribs when I see him snarl at other dogs and say NO.


And he takes you poking him as a part of the process. If something is of a nuisance to you, like a swarm of moskitos, would you stop slapping yourself and killing them? His behaviour is a pack behaviour, just the puppies are not his puppies and he might nip them much harder than if they were of his own. I'd question myself about professionalism of that daycare - why do they let puppies to interfere with adult dogs? I always thought that puppies are kept with other puppies only.


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## FirefighterGSD (Jan 20, 2014)

David Taggart said:


> I'd question myself about professionalism of that daycare - why do they let puppies to interfere with adult dogs? I always thought that puppies are kept with other puppies only.


I tend to agree. Why are the puppies mingling with adult dogs? That just sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.


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## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

martemchik said:


> I'm actually very surprised that the day care allows your boy to go there, every single one around me only allows altered animals past the age of 6 months. Just because he gave the puppy the warning, doesn't make how he acted alright. I'm sure if damage was done, the puppy's owner wouldn't be as understanding about the situation.


He has had a vastecomy, so he can't breed and that was the only thing the daycare was concerned about. There was damage done to the other dog and we are paying for the bill.


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## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

wyoung2153 said:


> My very personal, non-expert, opinion is that it sounds like you don't really have an aggression issue as much as a training issue. He sounds to me like he just gets annoyed with other dogs and when enough is enough he makes it apparent. It also sounds to me more of like a trend with puppies and he doesn't like them in his space.
> 
> For when you are around, and he growls at another dog, I would distract him with something, a ball if he's driven, treats and do OB, basically get him accustomed to the idea that another dog in the vacinity means he gets to have fun with you.
> 
> Not an expert by any means so maybe someone else will come along with a better idea, but it just doesn't sound like a reall "agggression" issue.


I agree with you that it is more of a puppy issue. I also like your idea about play time when other dogs are around. Thanks!


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## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

David Winners said:


> It seems your dog is training puppies to have manners. First comes posture, then growl, then nip. This progression teaches the puppy to abide by warning signals so it can understand communication later in life. If you are present, you can help your dog by controlling the puppy before the nip. If your doggy daycare staff doesn't understand this behavior, I would find different accommodations for your dog during the day.
> 
> JMHO


They understand the behaviour but have to stay neutral when another dog is injured. We are paying their bill, but I dont want this to be a continuous situation. I understand that he put the pup in his place and explained him the rules however not all dogs go for the jugular when they are annoyed. His reaction shouldnt have been to bit because all other warning systems failed. I want to be able to train him to do something else. His heckles rise around any dog but only seems to be bothered by ADHD dogs.


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## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> why do they let puppies to interfere with adult dogs? I always thought that puppies are kept with other puppies only.


They have the big puppies with the big dogs and the small dogs with the small dogs. For example when jaeger was 10 weeks we was in with the smaller dogs once he was about 5 months he went in with the big dogs. They so this with all. 

They are honestly a great daycare - best in the city and area. Stuff happens; I am not concerned how the daycare handled it. I am concerned that Jaeger will get increasingly aggressive.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Size and maturity are not the same thing.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

OK, I was assuming (incorrectly) that he nipped the pup. If he drew blood or "went for the jugular" there is a problem beyond puppy correction.

Can you describe when he shows stress around other dogs and what it looks like? 

I really hate trying to diagnose and offer advice on real aggression over the web. I think situations like these are best dealt with by a professional who can observe the dog in person and evaluate what is going on.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

* I am concerned that Jaeger will get increasingly aggressive.*

in the video posted about a vet who is
pro intact and anti spay-neuter
the vet Dr. Becker?? even admits 
at the very end of the video 
that if your dog is having aggression issues
remove the testosterone
via castration is recommended
this aggression will likely continue or progress
as testosterone
is a cause of aggression in any intact
animal


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Theres a balance to be played between correcting dogs that correct other dogs that miss signals to stop the bs and correcting the dogs that miss the signals before those dogs have a chance. You have to develop a feel for it. Same with when youre teaching a group of dogs to play nice with toys on the ground. 

Most people working at a daycare probably wont develop that because the jackass dogs get booted cause they cant handle them or those dogs get isolated. That and they dont care and its hard to facebook and deal with a potential dogfight at the same time.

Too many people blame the testicles for that kind of crap.


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## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

David Winners said:


> Can you describe when he shows stress around other dogs and what it looks like?


It is very rare that he shows this behaviour - the only time I have seen it was once 3 weeks ago. I could tell immediatley he did not like this black lab puppy - he wasnt doing his normal smell and play. 

The puppy was apprehensive of jaeger and was initially on a leash until she took him off to play with jaeger. Then Jaeger was avoiding him and when the dog would get near he would snarl. Shortly after this Jaeger went after him - it appeared as though he was going for his neck or face. Jaegers heckles were up. I also unfortunatley cannot tell you what happened at daycare - who started what - if he was an accident or how many times Jaeger told this puppy to back off. 

We have also not been home for 2 weeks and Jaeger is being looked after by my sister. He has been in daycare for 5 days a week instead or 2 or 3. He could also be short tempered, no excuses but like an adolescent human male they fight to...?

If Jaeger is being chased or sniffed his heckles have always been up but he never showed these signs before. He usually just turns around and chases them then starts rolling on the ground with the other dog. 

About 6 weeks ago Jaeger was bit himself. Him and a buddy were playing rough and her tooth got caught in his lip and tore it open. 

When he was a young puppy he was very timid of everything - he has gotten quite a bit more confidence in the last few months. 

I will look into puppy obedience again.


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## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> * if your dog is having aggression issues
> remove the testosterone
> via castration is recommended
> this aggression will likely continue or progress
> ...


*

We do not want to castrate until at least 24 months so this doesnt affect his growth and birth plates. If this is something we are having trouble with we will go ahead with castration at 24 months. However I am really hoping we can correct this as these are the first signs of aggression we have seen. The benefits of intact males outweigh the benefits of castration by far.

I think this is more my issue than his. I need to learn how to deal with it - to teach him how to respect and keep his calm. I truly believe there are no bad dogs but bad owners. Hence the reason I am asking what I can do to teach him.

Thanks.*


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if my dog acted aggressive at day care i would stop
taking him there. maybe day care is to much for him
and he doesn't need to be around a lot of dogs.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

It just really doesn't sound to me like aggression.. again no expert but it honestly sounds like he is getting annoyed quickly and just doesn't have the patience for being annoyed. Also, keep in mind that some dogs don't like puppies in general, and some dogs don't like certain dogs period. Titan gets along with literally every dog, but one on our search team, I swear he wants blood.. the only dog I have ever witnessed him attempt to go after (luckily they are always leashed at base and not allowed to mingle). Just for some reason that dog rubs him the wrong way, maybe she flipped him off in doggy world  

But I would still work on a more solid foundation on OB, especially around puppies.. since all your incidents seem to be only puppies. As for the Daycare, that's is completely your call, but maybe have him take a break for a few days, and if you need to bring him back, make it very clear to them he is testy with puppies and should be watched.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Some dogs (like my previous GSD) will only enjoy the company of certain dogs - not all dogs in general. Maybe Jaeger is like this too? My boy loved to play with other family members' dogs, and older females. But otherwise, forget it. 

I'm also wondering about your rib poking. If it had been me, and I noticed my pup getting annoyed, I would have been correcting the other dog instead - not that you can go around poking every other dog, lol, but you can gently push them away to respect your own dog's comfort level with his personal space. I'd take him out of that daycare before something worse happens.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Blanketback said:


> If it had been me, and I noticed my pup getting annoyed, I would have been correcting the other dog instead - not that you can go around poking every other dog, lol, but you can gently push them away to respect your own dog's comfort level with his personal space. I'd take him out of that daycare before something worse happens.


This too. I know that Titan does NOT like when other dogs mount him (I don't blame him) It's about the only time he gets vocal with another dog and always let's them know he's had enough.. very good about letting them know then getting back to play time.. doesn't carry on. Anyways, in the beginning he would just take care of it himself but once i realized what was happening and what to look for when other dog's approached him, I would stop it before it happened. Titan has learned that I will take care of him and he doesn't need to react because I will stop the other dog. Something like that might benefit you, removing the puppy when you can see Jaegar starting to get annoyed.


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## Jaeger's Mom (Jun 25, 2013)

wyoung2153 said:


> This too. I know that Titan does NOT like when other dogs mount him (I don't blame him) It's about the only time he gets vocal with another dog and always let's them know he's had enough.. very good about letting them know then getting back to play time.. doesn't carry on.


That is a good point. Jaeger is the same way when it comes to mounting - I will pay more attention to other dog behaviours then solely paying attention to Jaegers behaviour.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Some dogs shouldn't be allowed around other dogs. If he only behaviour well around other dogs with you,then your dog is one of them. If your dog has put another dog under vet care and you're now paying the bill...not really seeing how he can make it anymore clear, that he should not be around other dogs when your not with him?

Sounds like the daycare is using your GSD to train puppies how to behave, it's working out great for them and you, not so hot for other customers dogs and you and your in the future?

But then I don't do doggie day care.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

The daycare should have put a stop to this puppy bothering him. 

I have a male who doesn't care for the company of other dogs except for the girls he has lived with. He will accept greeting a polite dog but if some dog comes up and starts bouncing in his face, he will growl a very loud warning and I always remove the other dog from him. Yes he has been called rude and mean which is far from the truth, he just likes his personal space. (So do I, I should growl at the 10 year old boy sitting next to me babbling at his pocket pc)


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