# Nose Work - What is your dog's indication?



## Ruby'sMom (May 25, 2014)

I'm just a beginner with scent detection. Ruby and I have been using boxes and treats in my basement, deck, in-laws house, etc. I can tell when she has caught the scent, but she doesn't pause to show me. I thought about getting Dave Kroyer's DVD and learning indication first. What are some thoughts? 

The closest class for me is in Spokane with UKC, about an hour and half drive. Nose Work group is in Seattle. So, I was thinking a DVD to learn some basics.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

I am interested in doing nose work with my pup too.
It looks fun.
I think a video would be fine especially if it's just for fun. 
We took a try at agility and it seemed a bit scarey to me.
And Finn was not too happy with it either : ) Good luck.


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## Ruby'sMom (May 25, 2014)

David Winners posted a video of his work with his dog not too long ago. His dog does an obvious indication to scent discovery-nose in box and down. Dave Kroyer videos stress teaching the indication first, then scent work, which makes sense. Also, searching for treats is fun, but seems to encourage 'eat treat fast and move on to next' mentality. Ruby doesn't stop the search. She is greedy for next reward. 

I'm ready to move on to cloves, birch, and anise. I just need a good training video or book to follow. 

So far I've been following a 3 wk tutorial that a Nose Work trainer from Seattle sent me. We've been following and expanding on that for a couple months. Leerburg has scent videos as well. Fenzi Academy has a Nose Work on-line class. I would love some suggestions!


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

I don't have any suggestions on which videos to watch but my dog indicates like Fama - sit and nose as close to scent source as possible and hold that until released. We did our training in classes, and sometimes we would have 50 small containers on the floor or 20 of those little poop bag holders hung on a wall and you had to indicate exactly which container held the scent. The precision is important.


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## Ruby'sMom (May 25, 2014)

Mikelia- it sounds like classes would be the best option. UKC is just starting up in Spokane, and they would probably be the closest for me. I was hoping someone would chime in that has maybe learned how to show detection through videos. Did you learn indication first then scent work?


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

From what I understand from my instructor who is one of 16 UKC nose work judges in the US is that you let the dog decide his signal. Over time you get better at recognizing your dog's alert style. After 6 months of classes, I know what to look for. The dog is really in charge of the search, he gets to pick the signal. I am along for the ride.

My dog does a rapid head turn towards me and then looks back where the hide is located. Teaching other behaviors like sitting can be problematic. Nose work competitions are won by best times. I have seen people who can quickly read their dogs win over people who stand by their dog waiting for them to sit or whatever. Narcotics detention and SAR work is not a timed competition, as such.


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## Ruby'sMom (May 25, 2014)

Thanks Moriah. I guess I have to be patient. I was thinking I needed to have her signal. I have been watching Ruby closely, and I have observed a few things. If she passes the treat (we haven't graduated to the oils yet) she quickly back tracks and sniffs faster. Sometimes she opens her mouth. She only looks at me when she thinks we are done. The only things I say during the whole thing are "search" "more (if she hasn't found everything)" and "finish." Before we start I say "gear on" and when we are done "gear off." I take her out to go the bathroom before and after. It was stressed that I follow that mantra. I plan on meeting with the nose work instructor that sent me the tutorials late April. She is in the Seattle area.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

My dog "nose-touches" the scent. There are some secondary behaviors, like he will lie down if the scent is on or near the ground, sit if it's on a wall or object at nose-height, but his actual indication is that I can see his body language change, he freezes, he nose-touches the scent and then looks back at me, back at the scent, back at me. I trained NACSW nosework and you have to really pin-point the scent. During our NW1 trial, I was asked by the interior judge to point (within half an inch) of the scent when I called "alert".


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Can you explain what you mean by "teach the indication first" or "teach scent work first"? Do you mean teaching the dog to follow a scent cone vs. imprinting/shaping an indication with boxes and so forth?


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

With SDDA, once you get to excellent level, you must tell the judges what your dogs indication is prior to your search, and your dog must give the indication that you said. 
When we started classes we started with food, then paired it with scent, then faded the food then proofed with food as a disctractor. I know the trainer starts them with just scent now, no pairing with food. 
We started teaching them to scent, and taught the indication separately. We first used these little cricket cups, basically clear sour cream containers with lids that had a plastic screen on them. When we taught the indication, we would hold the lid and when the dog touched it we would mark. We kept working on that until the dog would sit, touch and stare at the lid wherever we held it. Then we put the lid on the container with the scent in it and would work on the indication on that one cup. Once they were good at that, the dogs transitioned easily to the indication on hidden finds. 
I know she teaches it a bit differently now, and with my pup I plan to teach the indication first, then introduce scent with no food pairing. 
I need to find out more about the indications in trial though. It's not an issue at the novice levels, but I wonder if you say your dog sits to indicate, and the find is on the floor and the dog downs, do you lose your qualifying score? Trials are few and far between in my town so it will be a while until we get to the higher levels, but he is ready for it and I want to train for it. 



Kaimeju said:


> Can you explain what you mean by "teach the indication first" or "teach scent work first"? Do you mean teaching the dog to follow a scent cone vs. imprinting/shaping an indication with boxes and so forth?


 Basically. Teaching indication first would be teaching the dog how you want them to tell you they found something. In my dogs case it is sit and stare at the object within a centimeter. Teaching scent first would be teaching the dog to find and be excited for the scent itself, with no formal indication.
If you can read your dog you will know when they have found the scent. But in trial, when you do not know where the scent is, your mind can mess with you. One time there was a pipe on the floor and Eli decided to paw at it and bat it around, I was certain the scent was in it so called my alert. Lo and behold my dog was just feeling goofy and the scent was elsewhere in the room.


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

Is Nose Work an AKC sport? I see the UKC mentioned.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I teach the indication from the start using boxes or PVC tubes.

Box drills: https://youtu.be/DE_Ax_PblQs


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

How are you using the PVC tubes? Not nosework (cadaver) but detection is detection.

Just curious our start by using throws with PVC tube containing primary source was by a MWD handler who did, in fact, work bomb dogs and was trained at Lackland. Active start, passive finish.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> How are you using the PVC tubes? Not nosework (cadaver) but detection is detection.
> 
> Just curious our start by using throws with PVC tube containing primary source was by a MWD handler who did, in fact, work bomb dogs and was trained at Lackland. Active start, passive finish.


I stole it from Mike Suttle. It's how he imprints his dogs. Check out the Loganhaus YouTube channel.

I'll post vids later.


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## Mister C (Jan 14, 2014)

My last GSD, Maddie, loved to find dead things. Her indication was funny to watch. 

She danced. 

She would take 4 or 5 minced steps with her back arched, do a quick 180 spin, then another 4-5 minced steps, spin, repeat. 

She would dance only on the dead things she found. She was a pet and the behaviour amused me greatly.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

David Winners said:


> I stole it from Mike Suttle. It's how he imprints his dogs. Check out the Loganhaus YouTube channel.
> 
> I'll post vids later.


Ah... I actually had posted a copy of a video from his channel in the SAR thread a few days ago.


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