# Show Line Breeding with Kirschental dogs



## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

Does anyone know anything about the pedigrees/lines of these two dogs - 
Bara von der Sandsteinkust and Java vom Kirschental?

I've done a little research on the Kirschental lines and like that, while they have the looks of WGSL dogs, they were all actively involved in herding, and the fact that the Kirschental Kennels has been breeding dogs for 50 years. I've also read somewhere that Kirschental dogs have the reputation for being somewhat handler sensitive, but do have a strong desire to please their handler. 

However, I know almost nothing about the various GSD bloodlines and would love to get the input of breeders and others who know far more about this than me.

I did get to meet both of these dogs and a 4 month old puppy from a prior paring of these two dogs and was impressed by their calm demeanor (although I suspect that none of these dogs possess over the top drives).


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I have a Kirschental dog. Handler sensitive - yes. She also just wants to work and would probably work until she collapsed. There was another forum member with a dog from Java. You may want to do a search for him or her. I only have my phone now so helping is hard, but I know he posted on a threat about kirschental dogs and did mention java.


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## Jim and Echo (Mar 16, 2014)

*Bara von der Sandsteinkust and Java vom Kirschental?*



John C. said:


> Does anyone know anything about the pedigrees/lines of these two dogs -
> Bara von der Sandsteinkust and Java vom Kirschental?
> 
> I've done a little research on the Kirschental lines and like that, while they have the looks of WGSL dogs, they were all actively involved in herding, and the fact that the Kirschental Kennels has been breeding dogs for 50 years. I've also read somewhere that Kirschental dogs have the reputation for being somewhat handler sensitive, but do have a strong desire to please their handler.
> ...


Hello I have a puppy from Bara von der Sandsteinkust and Java vom Kirschental and he does have a lot of drive!!! you can see him and one of his sisters this saturday at olympia kennels at 11:00 for training. come and see for yourself. He is a great dog, and would be great at anything I want to train him for.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

My boy Havoc is closely related to Java. Great dog. Loves Nosework, loves his family. Aloof towards strangers but a goof with friends. Excellent companion who has gotten more and more affectionate with age--he was three in December.


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## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

Great, thanks for the replies. My wife and I have visited Olympia Kennels, got to meet the owners and both Java and Bara. We were very impressed with the owners and their dogs. And of course it was great that they had both dogs on the premises. It's nice to have our initial impressions confirmed by a current owner of a puppy from this breeding, as well as two other owners of pups from the Kirschental lines. 

I've been trying to do some research on my own, and I have to say I've read nothing but good things about Kirschental dogs. And they seem like they would be a perfect fit for us. We love the looks of the WGSL dogs, but also want a dog that's trainable, loves to work, is healthy and has a solid temperment. Everything I've read about Kirschental dogs seems to tick all these boxes. These dogs all have a working background (HGH not Schutzhund) and come from a breeder that has been CONSISTENTLY producing quality dogs for 50 years. Surely that kind of depth and consistency has to count for something.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I think that Java might actually be Havoc's "aunt"! Small world.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

If getting a puppy try to make sure you can get your pup between 8 and 10 weeks.....I have seen and worked two different Kirschental dogs in past 10 years that were brought from the Kirschental kennel ( while Karl was still active) at 5 months and 6 months. I feel they showed the effects of kennel life during puppy developmental periods. I have seen many Kirschental dogs that were received at 8 to 10 weeks and had the traits you are looking for. Good Luck!


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## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

It is pretty amazing when you think of the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of GSD out there that you can post on this forum and run into someone who has a puppy from these two dogs and someone else who owns a close relative. I guess the number of people who really try to research the various lines and kennels and do their best to find a dog that would be a good match for them is much smaller. I really appreciate everyone's help and generosity.

Cliffson, thanks for the insightful comments and the benefits of your experience. Our plan would be to get a puppy and bring him home at 8-9 weeks, where he will definitely not be spending his time in a kennel. In fact, although we started our puppy search almost a month ago, we have ruled out actually getting a puppy until late May or early June, since we are planning to spend 7-8 days traveling to Portland, Oregon for our daughter's graduation from college and some sightseeing, and would not want to get a new puppy only to immediately put him in a kennel.


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## Jim and Echo (Mar 16, 2014)

Well if you get your dog at Olympia, I know that Gina aways takes the puppies one at a time to spend some time with them in there home. hope to see you this Saturday so you can see Echo and one of his sisters and talk.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks for the info Cliffson...I had heard that some Kirschental dogs could be sensitive and I wonder if that is the effect of kennel life. We got Havs at eight weeks and he has been pretty solid. We had a major crisis which resulted in complete turmoil for a year right after he turned one. Consequently he is not as comfortable in public as I had hoped he would be--I'm talking about pubs, restaurants and crowded parks but that's a high bar. At home he is amazing and welcomed dozens of health care workers over the course of my husband's recovery. He's close tobombproof when doing Nosework and enjoys staying at nice hotels..he particularly likes room service.

It's pretty funny when he stays at a hotel. You can tell he is on vacation. He doesn't alert to hallway noises and sleeps on our bed instead of thresholds--we bring a sheet from home.


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm not into show lines. Karl sent me a pup from his last Zafra litter, I had requested a strong working pup and she has not disappointed me. Marion had also recommended a pup from Java. I think you would not go wrong with a pup from either bitch, if the stud is what you want. ie. show or working lines. Karl had the unique ability to combine both and still keep great dogs. My girl has never been formally trained, but she does read my mind and follows my old girls lead. (Another one of Karl's dogs) She is what a GSD should be IMO


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## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

Quick update. We were the first people to put a deposit on this litter, so the breeder agreed we could have first pick. I knew I wanted a male and there were only two males in this litter (one of which was long-coated). Went to see the puppies for the first time yesterday and to pick our guy.

Really liked both male puppies. They were confident, social and very people oriented. The long coated puppy in particular was very people oriented, a big personality and the more dominant of the two, although the other male was certainly not submissive. Unfortunately, neither showed a lot of prey drive, so I'm pessimistic about being able to possibly try SAR with this dog. But he's not even 7 weeks old, so he may still surprise me.

If I'd picked solely on temperment I probably would have gone with the long coated shepherd, who had a little more drive and was very people oriented. However, I definitely prefer the look of traditional WGSL dogs and IMHO the short coated puppy is going to develop into a really handsome boy. And the guy we picked will maybe be a little calmer and more independent.

At any rate, I'm very excited about being able to bring our puppy home in about 10 days.


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