# Necropsies (autopsies for pets)



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I copied this from another thread because it is exactly how I feel about this idea and I thought it deserved a thread:



onyx'girl said:


> I don't understand why people will not have a necropsy done when sudden unexplained death occurs. It won't take away the dignity of the dog, in fact it may help other dogs with the knowledge that comes from the necropsy.
> Especially if it was genetic.


I had a young cat who became very ill, very fast. My vet suspected FIP but my cat passed before any test results could come back. He asked if he could necropsy my Meeko. I said yes. It confirmed his diagnosis and gave me great peace of mind to know exactly what happened to my little cat. It also allowed me to watch my other cat for any signs, and to know that I needed to NOT adopt another cat for a minimum amount of time. All helpful information from that procedure. He was cremated after and I have his ashes. 

If this ever happens with me with any pet again, I will do it again. Even if something is found that is upsetting, I would rather know, than not know.


----------



## LaRen616

I completely agree. 

Especially if it is a young healthy dog that dies unexpectedly.


----------



## gagsd

I have been involved with many necropsies..... very rarely was the cause of death determined.

I would still do one if possible in the case of an unexplained death.


----------



## Hillary_Plog

In August my VERY healthy 9 year old GSD passed away unexpectedly without any warning or issues. I was devastated and don't think that I could have moved on without knowing what caused his death.

I didn't hesitate to have them perform a necropsy. They found a large tumor deep inside of his abdomen that had ruptured, which caused his death. I never would have known what killed my boy and, even though it is still heart breaking to think about, I was able to move on in a healthy way because I learned what took him.


----------



## Catu

A necropsy by itself is one diagnosis method. But a good pathologist will not only look for lesions and abnormalities, but will get samples for the Histology, the microbiology and the parasitology lab that will, between all of them, determine the cause of death. Often you can collect samples of tissues there is no way you can examine in a living animal, like the brain.

While I agree that a necropsy poorly made, with a "lets take a look to what we find inside" way of thinking is a waste of time, a methodological one, made by a good pathologist, who is aware he is a piece of a professional's team, is something irreplaceable.


----------



## GSDGunner

Gunner's littermate Mocha was put to sleep in Feb after a long, misdiagnosed illness. Long story and I won't go into it here. But the last vet to suspect what it was, and after several tests were inconclusive, asked my friend to donate her body to the vet hospital to do a necropsy.
They informed her that by donating her, they would not receive the results. Why, I still don't comprehend. But my friend agreed so that if any other dog were to present with these symptoms, they might be able to save it.
It's a large vet hospital and a 24 hour care center.

I would have liked to have known the results since I have her littermate. But we do have an idea of what killer her. A misdiagnosed fungal infection. Her symptoms fit right down to the detached retina.

Although I wanted to know for selfish reasons, I commend my friend for wanting to help another dog in the event they present with her symptoms.
If something ever happened to Gunner, I wouldn't hesitate to do a necropsy.


----------



## Elaine

Having worked in a diagnostic lab for animals and been involved with autopsies on people, the only time I would ever do a necropsy or autopsy is when I really had to know what was wrong. These are hugely invasive and rather brutal things to do to a loved one and I wouldn't do it unless I absolutely had to.


----------



## Catu

Having done 8 necropsies only past week... I can't see how it can be brutal to do an exam to a dead body, unless you have something religious or similar on the matter. I wouldn't invite the owner to witness a necropsy, as much as I wouldn't invite the owner to witness any surgery, but it may help in the closure process.


----------



## Good_Karma

I feel like once an animal (or human) is dead, all that is left is the shell. If I had an unexplained death in one of my pets, I would indeed want a necropsy for my own sense of closure. I had a cat die a very horrible death that was never diagnosed and it haunts me to this day. I wish we had thought to ask them to do a necropsy, but we in shock at the time and were not thinking clearly. I still wonder if we could have done something differently to have saved her life.


----------



## Lilie

I don't think I would. It wouldn't change the final outcome..no I don't think I would. 

If I had a breeding pair, or puppies from a breeding pair, or if my dog had something rare that the medical community could learn from the procedure, then I would. 

But I couldn't do it just for myself.


----------



## Heagler870

My first GSD I had as an adult, Marshall, died at 1 year and 2 months and 3 days old. I knew what killed him though so for me there was no need. Sure maybe if I had no idea why he killed over but I knew.


----------



## shannonrae

When I was in college, I had the privilege of sharing my life with the best dog I have ever known. He was the dog that, "knew what I wanted him to do, before I asked him to do it." He was perfect, he instilled in me, the love of GSD'S I have today. I will always have a rescued GSD in my home in memory of him. His name was Bear and he was only 2 years old.

For the sake of this story I will refer to my ex fiance as Dereck. 
One day, while I was away at class Dereck let my dogs outside to play. He didn't let them out in the fenced in backyard. He chose to let them out the front door, running totally free, no tie out, no fence. At some point, he decided supervision was not necessary either. He went inside to play Xbox. Some time later he heard a dog yelp, and went to call Bear, and Sydney in. Sydney came when called, Bear did not . . . 

Bear ALWAYS came when called, this time he did not. Dereck went back INSIDE to play his XBOX! After about 10-20 min (according to him), he went out to look for Bear. He found Bear in my neighbors yard, laying underneath their pickup. Alert, but panting hard. Dereck called Bear to him, Bear would not come from underneath the pickup. Dereck went back up the driveway (a solid 5min walk one way), got his car and drove it to Bear. He pulled the still aware Bear from underneath the pickup and put him in the back seat of his car. And proceeded to drive BACK up our driveway to the house. He then, took out his cellphone and called his MOTHER and talk to her for 29 minutes. 

By the time he decided to take Bear to the vet almost an hour had passed since Bear had been hit. The vet was a 20min drive away. During the drive to the vet, Bear started to become unaware of his surroundings, then unconscious. As, Dereck laid Bear on the examination table at the vets, Bear took his last breath. 

This veterinarian, happens to be one I have known for years. We know each other well. I am able to have any procedure done with a large discount and ability to run a bill at his office. There was no reason for Bear not to go to a vet immediately. Yet an hour and a half of BS later, he finally got to the vet. Too late to help him, or ease his suffering. I never got to say goodbye. 
Dereck called me soon after Bear died. I needed to go pick him up at the vet's. I made a 1hr30min drive in 40min. When I got there my best friend was in the equivalent of a black trash bag. In a room by myself I took him out of the bag and looked at him. He was so handsome, the only obvious damage to his body was broken teeth. He remained intact, he looked like he was sleeping. 
It was just his shell, people say this. I know it makes sense, it is true.
But that was still the shell I had grown to love. The head I stroked, the neck I hugged and the nose that I kissed. 

I have watched many a necropsy, there is not a truly dignified way to do it. I did not need to know that badly, what had killed him. Head trauma is most likely COD. I am satisfied with that answer. 
I can respect others decisions to do have it done. I just could not. Maybe in a different situation. 
So, yeah, that's one reason someone may refuse a necropsy . . . I am still to this day O.K. with that decision.


----------



## Catu

shannonrae said:


> When I was in college, I had the privilege of sharing my life with the best dog I have ever known. He was the dog that, "knew what I wanted him to do, before I asked him to do it." He was perfect, he instilled in me, the love of GSD'S I have today. I will always have a rescued GSD in my home in memory of him. His name was Bear and he was only 2 years old.
> 
> For the sake of this story I will refer to my ex fiance as Dereck.
> One day, while I was away at class Dereck let my dogs outside to play. He didn't let them out in the fenced in backyard. He chose to let them out the front door, running totally free, no tie out, no fence. At some point, he decided supervision was not necessary either. He went inside to play Xbox. Some time later he heard a dog yelp, and went to call Bear, and Sydney in. Sydney came when called, Bear did not . . .
> 
> Bear ALWAYS came when called, this time he did not. Dereck went back INSIDE to play his XBOX! After about 10-20 min (according to him), he went out to look for Bear. He found Bear in my neighbors yard, laying underneath their pickup. Alert, but panting hard. Dereck called Bear to him, Bear would not come from underneath the pickup. Dereck went back up the driveway (a solid 5min walk one way), got his car and drove it to Bear. He pulled the still aware Bear from underneath the pickup and put him in the back seat of his car. And proceeded to drive BACK up our driveway to the house. He then, took out his cellphone and called his MOTHER and talk to her for 29 minutes.
> 
> By the time he decided to take Bear to the vet almost an hour had passed since Bear had been hit. The vet was a 20min drive away. During the drive to the vet, Bear started to become unaware of his surroundings, then unconscious. As, Dereck laid Bear on the examination table at the vets, Bear took his last breath.
> 
> This veterinarian, happens to be one I have known for years. We know each other well. I am able to have any procedure done with a large discount and ability to run a bill at his office. There was no reason for Bear not to go to a vet immediately. Yet an hour and a half of BS later, he finally got to the vet. Too late to help him, or ease his suffering. I never got to say goodbye.
> Dereck called me soon after Bear died. I needed to go pick him up at the vet's. I made a 1hr30min drive in 40min. When I got there my best friend was in the equivalent of a black trash bag. In a room by myself I took him out of the bag and looked at him. He was so handsome, the only obvious damage to his body was broken teeth. He remained intact, he looked like he was sleeping.
> It was just his shell, people say this. I know it makes sense, it is true.
> But that was still the shell I had grown to love. The head I stroked, the neck I hugged and the nose that I kissed.
> 
> I have watched many a necropsy, there is not a truly dignified way to do it. I did not need to know that badly, what had killed him. Head trauma is most likely COD. I am satisfied with that answer.
> I can respect others decisions to do have it done. I just could not. Maybe in a different situation.
> So, yeah, that's one reason someone may refuse a necropsy . . . I am still to this day O.K. with that decision.


Sorry to remove bad memories, but what would have you done if you arrived home to find your dog laying dead and your BF had told you an unlikely story of being playing on the XBOX and when he went to get something to the kitchen, he found the dog already dead under the couch? You can see the broken teeth, you can perceive something fishy in your BF story and the neighbors told you a screech of brakes was heard in the afternoon. Would you in that case have buried your pup and just cried his loss because nothing else can be done or would you want to do anything in your hands to know the truth?



> _...when sudden unexplained death occurs... _


I think nobody says necropsies should be done for the fun of it every time a pet passes away. Sometimes they are needed and useful... sometimes not.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Catu said:


> I think nobody says necropsies should be done for the fun of it every time a pet passes away. Sometimes they are needed and useful... sometimes not.


Yes. 

If I had a dog who was kicked by a horse I would not need to know what exactly happened to kill him. 

If I had a dog with multiple disease components happening - diabetes, CRF, liver disease, even if it were possible to say what caused the death - I would not need to know. 

If I had a dog diagnosed with cancer I wouldn't need to know. 

But if I had a dog we had been treating and getting nowhere, or a dog who had a sudden death, I would want to know. I think like Catu has been saying, done right it is going to be good information for the vet and owner, and it is done with respect for the creature who once lived in that body.


----------



## shannonrae

Catu said:


> Sorry to remove bad memories, but what would have you done if you arrived home to find your dog laying dead and your BF had told you an unlikely story of being playing on the XBOX and when he went to get something to the kitchen, he found the dog already dead under the couch? You can see the broken teeth, you can perceive something fishy in your BF story and the neighbors told you a screech of brakes was heard in the afternoon. Would you in that case have buried your pup and just cried his loss because nothing else can be done or would you want to do anything in your hands to know the truth?
> 
> 
> 
> I think nobody says necropsies should be done for the fun of it every time a pet passes away. Sometimes they are needed and useful... sometimes not.


I am afraid I cannot answer your question. I have never found a dog dead under a couch . . . I was just explaining WHY I chose not to have a necropsy done in this instance. I was providing my viewpoint and why I chose the way I did. Fortunately for me it was my decision to make, and I remain satisfied with what I decided to this day. It would not have benefited me in any way to have more info. My dog is dead, my ex fiance is out of my life. 

I just feel that if an owner does not want a necropsy done, that decision should be respected. Just as if someone does want a necropsy done, that should be o.k. too. I deal with the death of peoples pets every day. Everybody deals with it in different ways. Everybody has a different "comfort" level, everybody deserves to have their feelings respected. 

Nobody should feel pressured into having one done, this is being typed by somebody who makes money by assisting/performing necropsies. So, I have a "vested interest" if you will.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

Everything Jean said. When Dena went from a perfectly healthy (seeming) young dog right before her 4th birthday to dead 3 weeks later after numerous terrible symptoms, tons of tests and treatments nearly every day with no definite diagnosis we were very grateful that our vet asked us if it was okay to do a necropsy. We did not ask for one because we had spent nearly $6000 in those 3 weeks and couldn't justify spending more - she was gone and nothing was going to bring her back. 

But we wanted to know, although part of me was afraid that we would find out that something we did, or should have done but did not, had hastened her death. Our vet wanted to know too, so we agreed to let him take some samples and send them out. It wasn't until after the pathology reports came back that we learned that she had lymphoma. It was a surprise to him, and he even consulted with an oncologist to see if there was something that he missed because there was no indication of that at all. It did turn out to be a comfort to us because there really was nothing that could have been done, she was simply not going to make it.


----------



## onyx'girl

Debbie,
and everyone else that has lost one so unexpectedly...I am so sorry for your losses. I think knowing does provide closure, especially when you say "what IF" over and over. 
I did that when Stomper died at 11, I was sure it was bloat, but ~What if?

I use to breed parrots. 
When we had one die, we always did a necropsy if possible(this went for babies too) 
Because genetics may play a part in it, it is still a learning time for vets & breeders to know the cause and hopefully prevent future deaths. 
Granted Parrots are a bit more fragile than animals, their respiratory systems are so sensitive. And some cost 1000's or are endangered depending on the species. A necropsy was a given when we lost one. Wet it, chill it send it off to the vet or MSU.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I honestly don't think people are aware that they can have them done a lot of the time, and then get a little creeped out so don't. But a little education can help people to do something, feel comfortable about it, and get information for their peace of mind.


----------



## Achielles UD

I so very recently had to make this decision when I went out to find Hella in her kennel run.

I had to know what caused a seemingly healthy 23 month old GSD that was looking better than ever and training well just 2 days prior to be gone without warning in the blink of an eye.

I've lost dogs in the past, but never had to guess what happened. Age, heart failure... those I understand. This had me at a loss for words.

When I was finally able to get her to the vet 24+ hours later, he did what he could. One of the hardest things I have ever done is stood there while he opened her to check for any obvious signs. I am glad I did though. I could see the issues he was pointing out with her heart. 

I never want to do it again, but I would think if you have no clue how your previously healthy young dog died (you know he/she wasn't hit by a car, ate a box of rat poison, got kicked in the head, etc) that a person would want to know and should at least have the dog examined post-mortem to find a probable COD.


----------



## Good_Karma

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I honestly don't think people are aware that they can have them done a lot of the time, and then get a little creeped out so don't. But a little education can help people to do something, feel comfortable about it, and get information for their peace of mind.


Exactly! When Eve died (you know the story Jean) we had no idea we could have had her necropsied. Knowing how she died might have helped us deal with how we chose to continue her treatment. Maybe we could also come to peace with it and known that there was nothing else we could have done. But as it is, I will always second guess the choices we made with her care.


----------



## RebelGSD

My former foster, 1.5yo, adopted by a friend of mine suddenly fell on the ground, started crying and stopped breathing 30 seconds later. He was gone in 30 seconds. This was a pup that went through neuter without problems, he ran like the wind and played hard. This happened over the weekend and the vet said it was too late for necropsy when they opened on Monday. It will haunt us forever not knowing what happened and what we may have missed.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

If I had a dog or cat who keeled over dead with no previous medical problems, I would want to know, it would haunt me forever if I didn't know for sure.


----------



## GSDElsa

I'm curious as to what people would do if their 10 year old child suddenly passed away? Legally you probably wouldn't get out of having an autopsy done. But I can't imagine any parent being OK with not knowing why their completely healthy child died seemingly overnight.

I don't put people and animals on the same level, but I do consider this the sort of thing that is similar. It's a living being I care about, and I think the right thing to do is know what caused such a tragedy. 

There is a difference between a 12 year old dog dying of cancer and a 6 month old passing away overnight. And there is a difference between an 86 year old dying of cancer and a 5 year old passying away overnight.

I think it's odd that people refer to autopsies as brutal. Certainly there is a lot of cutting and unpleasantness involved, but then again, it's not different than a lot of surgeries. It's that nature of medicine. It involves delving into the body.


----------



## CainGSD

When Cain suddenly began having mobility issues and we pursued 2 different consults.

Our second consult took us to the Univ. of FL and after a MRI a tumor on his spine was found. The Univ. asked to do a necropsy and while it caused me emotional pain to think of what would have to be done to my beautiful boy, I agreed. I wanted to know if there were any other factors involved and I wanted to know exactly what type of cancer was involved. I also hoped that it might help some vet students in their studies.


----------



## Achielles UD

GSDElsa said:


> I'm curious as to what people would do if their ... child suddenly passed away? Legally you probably wouldn't get out of having an autopsy done. But I can't imagine any parent being OK with not knowing why their completely healthy child died seemingly overnight.


I've been on this end also. Legally, there is no choice, even though we knew what happened.

Human or canine, personally, if I know (or have an extremely high probablity for COD) why, regardless of age, I would NOT want an autopsy/necropsy. 

If I didn't know, I would want it done. Regardless of age.


----------

