# This makes me sick!



## x0emiroxy0x

4 AKC German Shepherd Females

Can anyone read the name of the kennel in the background? I can't make it out but was hoping someone else could so I could find the website and send them an email!!


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## KSdogowner

I maximized it as much as I could but still could not make out the name. Sorry. What a shame about the GSDs.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Is what you are planning/hoping to do going to definitely help the dogs?


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## Kittilicious

I did a google search on the phone number and only came up with this. 

AKC German Shepherd Females (Milford TX) | German Shepherd Puppies

I guess the only way to contact them is by phone.


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## Jax08

South Pecan German Shepherd. Do a search for German Shepherd and Milford Tx.










Facebook page
South Pecan German Shepherds | Facebook


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## Emoore

What makes you sick about it? It's against craigslist rules to sell dogs, but there's nothing intrisically morally wrong about selling dogs. People sell breeding dogs, pets, protection dogs, etc all the time on pedigree database and nobody says anything.


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## Snarly

South Pecan German Shepherds | Facebook


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## sparra

Why do you need an email address.....why not ring them on the number they provided??


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## Betty

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Is what you are planning/hoping to do going to definitely help the dogs?


I second this.


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## Karin

It is scary that they're trying to get rid of their dogs for free or probably pretty cheap. I hate to think of what kind of not-so-nice hands these sweet sounding dogs might fall into. :teary:


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## Mrs.K

And maybe they are going into great homes. How many people on here got their dogs off of craigslist? 

Come on, at least he's not poisening, shooting or burrying them alive. The site is to re-home them. Would you rather have him become a hoarder instead of downsizing?


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## Baron's Dad

I got Baron from a Craiglist ad. Unfortunately, everything in the Ad was a lie! That being said, after being with us for 6 weeks he is making huge strides and couldn't imagine life without him. He loves us sooo much and we love him too. We knew we were taking a risk getting him from Craigslist and our fears were proven correct due to the lies, but we feel lucky that he is in our lives now. He has a loving home for the first time in his two year life and he shows his appreciation for it every day. He has his moments still, but they are growing less over time. I think it's not so much how you obtain a dog, it's how you treat him and bond together. Once all of his issues are ironed out he will be a fantastic dog and a valuable member of our family unit.


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## Karin

All I'm saying is that it can be dangerous to offer GSDs (or any dog) for free on Craigslist. There is always the chance of someone obtaining dogs for bad purposes (selling for research, using for fighting, etc.) It always worries me to see dogs given away for free.


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## dazedtrucker

Mrs.K said:


> And maybe they are going into great homes. How many people on here got their dogs off of craigslist?
> 
> Come on, at least he's not poisening, shooting or burrying them alive. The site is to re-home them. Would you rather have him become a hoarder instead of downsizing?


I got 1 of mine from a Craigslist ad, it was a multiple dog thing "kennel going out of business". (puppy mill in trouble). He has some issues, but is a great dog. I went for a female, and came home with him. He's the sable...you can see I use him for fighting :rofl:


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## mysweetkaos

Dazed trucker...I am glad to see your rescue wound up in a "fighting" home Cute pic....side note I notice you're in Kansas with that snow...hope it isn't headed east to Missouri 
I checked out the facebook page of the breeder. It's weird all 4 female dogs listed are the ones he has shown as his breeding females. So maybe something happened? The main thing I saw of concern (notice I say main, not only) was the picture of his "stud"....in one of two pics of him, he looks fairly matted, and in need of grooming. Also he appears to have at least two different collar or restraint devices on him, which makes me wonder how much "handling" these dogs have had. I agree it is sad when GSD's are on craigslist. One can get wound with worry about what "type" of people are going to get them for the wrong reasons....or how many of them wind up in shelters due to people not knowing what they're getting into. I also agree with other posters...unless you want to offer one of these dogs a chance, probably no good can come from contacting them. They may just resort to "worse" ways of unburdening themselves of the dogs.


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## fg2chase

Mrs.K said:


> And maybe they are going into great homes. How many people on here got their dogs off of craigslist?
> 
> Come on, at least he's not poisening, shooting or burrying them alive. The site is to re-home them. Would you rather have him become a hoarder instead of downsizing?


I want to bury the GSD I got off craigslist! IN the holes he is DIGGING IN MY YARD! lol, I got him on craigslist and hes a good dog except for that! I have caught him in the act and smacked him on the ass and made him lay down and he is still doing it. I about broke my ankle the other night walking in the backyard.


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## dazedtrucker

mysweetkaos said:


> Dazed trucker...I am glad to see your rescue wound up in a "fighting" home Cute pic....side note I notice you're in Kansas with that snow...hope it isn't headed east to Missouri
> I checked out the facebook page of the breeder. It's weird all 4 female dogs listed are the ones he has shown as his breeding females. So maybe something happened? The main thing I saw of concern (notice I say main, not only) was the picture of his "stud"....in one of two pics of him, he looks fairly matted, and in need of grooming. Also he appears to have at least two different collar or restraint devices on him, which makes me wonder how much "handling" these dogs have had. I agree it is sad when GSD's are on craigslist. One can get wound with worry about what "type" of people are going to get them for the wrong reasons....or how many of them wind up in shelters due to people not knowing what they're getting into. I also agree with other posters...unless you want to offer one of these dogs a chance, probably no good can come from contacting them. They may just resort to "worse" ways of unburdening themselves of the dogs.


That snow was actually in Hugo Colorado...we were going up to see my son in Ft Collins when I took it  It was last Friday or so. 
I agree, worse things can happen than Craigslist. They probably got a better chance than a shelter, JMO. Most people are not evil. I'm glad the people I got mine from actually put an ad on...I had to fill out USDA paperwork to account for where the dog went. I think they were in some kind of trouble, I heard a rumor that they had gotten in trouble for misrepresenting dogs, but it was just a rumor, I don't know for sure. There was some kind of problem that they were ditching a bunch of dogs. I actually did pay a 25 dollar "rehome" fee on him. (and over 100 in gas getting up there and back). I know what happens to most of the "useless" breeder dogs at puppy mills, and generally it is not pretty


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## Emoore

fg2chase said:


> I want to bury the GSD I got off craigslist! IN the holes he is DIGGING IN MY YARD! lol, I got him on craigslist and hes a good dog except for that! I have caught him in the act and smacked him on the ass and made him lay down and he is still doing it. .


So hopefully you've figured out this is not the preferred method for stopping a dog from digging?


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## fg2chase

Emoore said:


> So hopefully you've figured out this is not the preferred method for stopping a dog from digging?


Yeah, maybe a kick to the head next... lol 

What is the "preferred method"? I am considering jutting a cage on the concrete outside and leaving him locked in there all day rather than letting him run free.


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## dazedtrucker

fg2chase said:


> Yeah, maybe a kick to the head next... lol
> 
> What is the "preferred method"? I am considering jutting a cage on the concrete outside and leaving him locked in there all day rather than letting him run free.


I got a digger, some suggestion I got was to put in a "digging area", like a sandbox and try to direct them there. I just let mine dig... It makes him happy, and he's not outside alone enough to really cause a problem, or a hole to china, although he tries! He does love sand at the park too....


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## katieliz

fg2chase, those are the only two options, leaving him locked in a cage all day or running free? neither of those are good options for the dog, and surely the "kick in the head" remark is a joke. actually punishing the dog for digging is probably not going to be successful. digging is something that dogs instinctually do, and they have to be prevented from doing it by supervision and by managing their environment. i can't see how crating all day outdoors in the southern united states could be an acceptable way of managing the environment. maybe i'm misunderstanding something.


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## mysweetkaos

fg2chase, I won't even lecture on the physical discipline act, as I am going to give the benefit of the doubt you are not serious. As for digging, our 7 month old is quite good at it himself. What I've found
1) he only digs when he doesn't get enough exercise or attention
2) in the spots he had dug already, I put some of his "poo" in there and buried it, because who wants to dig that up?
3) supervision and redirecting 
Works so far.

Dazedtrucker....Ok I feel better about the snow being in Colorado, that area is where most of my family lives, I know they have been getting quite a bit....poor suckers!!! Glad your CL story has a happy ending, and I was no by no means implying that all buyers on CL have ill intentions for getting a GSD, I hope you know that. After having helped rehome some GSD for a rescue in Wisconsin, I just became quickly aware.....not every one wanted a GSD for the same reason I did (great loving, loyal, family dog). It was scary and I could easily see why there are so many misconceptions about a great breed of dogs. I am sure that goes for all "big bully breeds"


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## Jax08

katieliz said:


> fg2chase, * digging is something that dogs instinctually do, and they have to be prevented from doing it by supervision and by managing their environment.*



This is the only way to prevent this. They will eventually stop compulsively digging. Jax could not be left out to go the bathroom without a foot deep hole being dug. She will still dig when she's sniffing someplace but she no longer digs for fun.


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## Zisso

I got my male off of Craig's list. He is a good boy and makes me laugh all the time. He would rather not 'work' for a treat, not real fond of doing tricks, and definitely thinks he is above performing in Obedience but he is my goofball and my fluffy love bug. Life would not be complete without him. This was a private adoption, much like the one you posted on Craig's List although not from a puppy mill.

I got my girl from an ad on PetFinder. She also has issues, but different ones than my boy. When I first got her she nipped at people when they stopped petting her, when they touched her toys, and when they move too fast around her. I used to chalk that up to her high prey drive but am now looking into it being a medical thing and meanwhile she has been easy to manage.

I think that if these 4 are from a puppy miller, they are lucky to be getting out and pray they land in good hands where they will have a chance at living the life they deserve-with the comforts of a warm home and the love and compassion of people like us


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## fg2chase

yes I was joking about kicking him in the head... The ONLY time I have used physical force is when we first got him he was playing with my two year old under my supervision and he put her arm in his mouth, He didn't bite down or anything but I punched him in the head for that instantly sort of involuntarily. And even then I didn't hit him like I would a man.

I would never kick the dog


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## AbbyK9

> He didn't bite down or anything but I punched him in the head for that instantly sort of involuntarily. And even then I didn't hit him like I would a man.


I don't know where to start with this. Punching or hitting to the head, however light or hard, is never an acceptable response and it's certainly not discipline - for dog OR human. The only thing that punching or hitting a dog teaches the dog is that you can't control your temper and to be afraid of your hands.

I hope this site can help you learn more appropriate techniques of training, supervising, and bonding with your dog. There's lots of information here ... reading and asking questions would be a fantastic start.

AS for your digging problem - your dog needs to be outside with supervision if you don't want the digging to continue, so you can redirect him to a different behavior. If your dog is running loose in your yard while you're home, he's probably bored out of his head. Does he get enough exercise? PROPER exercise - not running loose in the yard by himself. Does he get any training? Any play time WITH you?


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## chelle

fg2chase said:


> .....and smacked him on the ass ... Yeah, maybe a kick to the head next... lol  .... but I punched him in the head for that instantly...





fg2chase said:


> yes I was joking about kicking him in the head... The ONLY time I have used physical force is when we first got him he was playing with my two year old under my supervision and he put her arm in his mouth, He didn't bite down or anything........ And even then I didn't hit him like I would a man.
> 
> I would never kick the dog


You come off sounding rather violent. You'd punch it, but never kick it? Well I guess that's something. But seriously, you didn't "hit him like you would a man?" Is that supposed to make us accept completely unacceptable behavior? You said it was an "involuntary" response on your part? Anger management maybe? What will you do the next time he really ticks you off? Sorry to be harsh here, but this just rubs the wrong way.


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## mysweetkaos

There are much more sucessful not too mention humane and appropriate ways to train a dog. I hope you will utilize your hands for good by looking up some threads on discipline. I find your techniques (for lack of a better word) vulgar and hope you are able to show more restraint with your wife and children. I've found about 99% of the problems I've ever had with my dogs has been an issue that I could correct quite easily by upping NILF, exercise or one on one time....I have great dogs (not just my opinion) and I assure you NO one has ever laid a hand or foot to them.

On the other hand fg2chase...I would like to thank you for furthering my belief that it is a very scary thing to rehome a GSD on craigslist, because you never know who is really going to end up with them.


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## Holmeshx2

:thumbup: to the last 3 posts been waiting for when someone would address these things. They have been repeated on a few different threads and just seem to be getting passed over.


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## fg2chase

Yeah, sure... My Temper... I disagree with you! There is nothing wrong with a good old fashioned smack on the butt, And when it comes to my kids the KIDS come first before any dog. If any of them ever bit her I would drag them outside and shoot them on site. I just wanted him to know that her limbs in his mouth was NOT ok! And guess what? He has never done it again! And they play together all the time so he didn't associate her with pain either.

I disagree that it is ineffective, I spanked him the day I brought him home for pooping in my floor and he has never done it again. Doesn't it go to show that I DO care about these dogs at all just by being on this site? My dogs have a good life and there is nothing UNHUMANE about a smack, There are dogs out there that really do have it bad.

NO I don't hit my wife, but I do spank my kids. I don't care what anyone thinks about that.


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## selzer

fg2chase said:


> Yeah, sure... My Temper... I disagree with you! There is nothing wrong with a good old fashioned smack on the butt, And when it comes to my kids the KIDS come first before any dog. If any of them ever bit her I would drag them outside and shoot them on site. I just wanted him to know that her limbs in his mouth was NOT ok! And guess what? He has never done it again! And they play together all the time so he didn't associate her with pain either.
> 
> I disagree that it is ineffective, I spanked him the day I brought him home for pooping in my floor and he has never done it again. Doesn't it go to show that I DO care about these dogs at all just by being on this site? My dogs have a good life and there is nothing UNHUMANE about a smack, There are dogs out there that really do have it bad.
> 
> NO I don't hit my wife, but I do spank my kids. I don't care what anyone thinks about that.


I love this site. 

It takes a big man to spank a dog for pooping on the floor on the first day. My guess is that people are generally choosing to ignore the statements because they don't want to feed the attention-seeking behavior.


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## fg2chase

selzer said:


> I love this site.
> 
> It takes a big man to spank a dog for pooping on the floor on the first day. My guess is that people are generally choosing to ignore the statement because they don't want to feed the attention-seeking behavior.


lol, no attention required


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## EllieMae<3

fg2chase said:


> There is nothing wrong with a good old fashioned smack on the butt, And when it comes to my kids the KIDS come first before any dog. If any of them ever bit her I would drag them outside and shoot them on site. I just wanted him to know that her limbs in his mouth was NOT ok! And guess what? He has never done it again! And they play together all the time so he didn't associate her with pain either.
> 
> I disagree that it is ineffective, I spanked him the day I brought him home for pooping in my floor and he has never done it again. Doesn't it go to show that I DO care about these dogs at all just by being on this site? My dogs have a good life and there is nothing UNHUMANE about a smack, There are dogs out there that really do have it bad.
> 
> NO I don't hit my wife, but I do spank my kids. I don't care what anyone thinks about that.


First of all, kids are completely different. A little tap on the butt for doing something unacceptable is completely different than smacking a dog on the butt or punching them. Children are HUMAN and even if they may be little, they can comprehend better that when they get a spank, to not do it again. Dogs on the other hand will not learn like children will considering, well, they are DOGS! 

Second, if your dog bit your child you would shoot it? That's a little ridiculous. If you have that mindset, I'd suggest not owning any dog.

There's a difference between a dog RESPECTING you and FEARING you. I'm sure your dog is terrified of you considering your dog got a nice punch to the face. 

Like I said before, as smart as dogs are (especially GSDs) they are not the same thing as children and do not have the same brain functions as humans do.


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## Emoore

A smack on the butt isn't abusive for a dog or a kid. The difference is that kids understand it, but there's nothing in a dog's programming or instincts that understands hitting. Dog's don't hit each other, consequently they don't learn well from being hit. They *can* learn from being hit-- if you went out and hit your dog with a 2x4 every time he started digging, he'd darn sure learn to hate you and 2x4's-- but they don't learn *well* from being hit. You'll get better results from your dog if you speak to him in a language he understands, setting him up for success and rewarding that success, than by using physical punishment he doesn't even understand when he fails.


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## chelle

You hit the dog for pooping on the floor the first day it came home. Really? I'm on the phone so a big pain to type much so will keep this easy. You suck!


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## fg2chase

lol, you sure learned me a thing or two folks! They are not terrified of me, in fact Panzer thinks hes a lapdog and is trying to lay on my lap right now.

And yes, the penalty for biting children is death. These dogs are smart enough not to do this, however some before them were not so lucky.

Thing's aren't so bad now I did puch the dog one time back in September, yeah.. I admit that was wrong, we do play a lot together when I have time but I am a single dad with a toddler, two GSD's, and a full time job. Do the dogs deserve a better home? sure... but my home is adequate and nice and once my wife gets home things will be better. I am not the worlds greatest dog owner but I do love these dogs and I do care about them.


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## selzer

fg2chase said:


> lol, you sure learned me a thing or two folks! They are not terrified of me, in fact Panzer thinks hes a lapdog and is trying to lay on my lap right now.
> 
> And yes, the penalty for biting children is death. These dogs are smart enough not to do this, however some before them were not so lucky.


Fg2chase, if your dog bites your child, it will be your fault, and then you will kill your dog for your mistake, and then your dog will not be so lucky.


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## fg2chase

Their loyalty is what is most astonishing, even if I was a serious abuser and beat them to within an inch of their lives they would still die for me and my family if they had to and that is something I can't say I would do the same thing for them. That is where they get my respect, them misbehaving is a small price to pay for that loyalty. And I am sorry if have offended anyone here.


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## fg2chase

selzer said:


> Fg2chase, if your dog bites your child, it will be your fault, and then you will kill your dog for your mistake, and then your dog will not be so lucky.


I disagree, but so far these guys are smart enough NOT to bite her. They know better, I think some people care more about their dogs than they do their own kids.


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## Emoore

selzer said:


> Fg2chase, if your dog bites your child, it will be your fault, and then you will kill your dog for your mistake, and then your dog will not be so lucky.


And people wonder why I don't think small children and dogs are a good mix.  Parents can't be bothered to train and socialize a dog _or_ a kid, let alone a dog _and_ a kid because they work all day and they're tired. The kid pesters and torments the dog, the dog finally lashes out in self defense, and everybody loses.


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## fg2chase

Emoore said:


> And people wonder why I don't think small children and dogs are a good mix.  Parents can't be bothered to train and socialize a dog _or_ a kid, let alone a dog _and_ a kid because they work all day and they're tired. The kid pesters and torments the dog, the dog finally lashes out in self defense, and everybody loses.


ok now, I do NOT let Emilie pester and torment the dogs... once ears and stuff start to get pulled I draw the line and seperate them. I don't just come home and sit on my ass after working all day. I do spent time with them. It would be easy to do that, after getting up at 445 to take the kid to daycare at 530 THEN going to work for PT at 630 and not getting off work until after 5PM.. It would be too easy but im not that selfish.


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## Shaina

fg2chase said:


> And yes, the penalty for biting children is death. These dogs are smart enough not to do this, *however some before them were not so lucky.*



How many dogs did you have to shoot before finding the ones that were smart enough to know what was okay without being properly trained?


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## Emoore

fg2chase said:


> ok now, I do NOT let Emilie pester and torment the dogs... once ears and stuff start to get pulled I draw the line and seperate them.


Wonderful, glad to hear it.


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## EllieMae<3

fg2chase said:


> I think some people care more about their dogs than they do their own kids.


That just might be how you perceive it to be. To most dog lovers, dogs are like their children. Not saying they should put the dog before their own blood, but any dog owner should not go to the full extent of shooting their dog if it bites their child. If the dog attacks their child, it is the dog owner's fault for not realizing it had a temper problem sooner or for raising that dog to be aggressive (ex: hitting it). Do not blame the dog. Some people (you for example) do not realize that dogs are animals, their defense mechanisms are OBVIOUSLY different that peoples'. 

Let me ask you, would you punch your child in the face for hitting their sibling? Doubt it.


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## Jessiewessie99

There is thing called potty training. You don't hit a dog the first day he comes home for going potty. It doesn't teach them anything. He will think he got in trouble just for that not because he went in the wrong area.


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## Whiteshepherds

fg2chase said:


> Their loyalty is what is most astonishing,


This is what makes what you've said previously so sad. If you mistreat them they may do what they're told but you'll never have their heart and soul. You'll miss the best part of having a dog. 

I know it has to be hard acting as the single parent with a toddler, work etc. but if you can find just 10 minutes in your day to read up on positive reinforcement training and then try it, I think your dog would be very grateful.


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## mysweetkaos

fg2chase...I'm sure you've heard enough. Here's a thought. In my opinion if you use your hands to punish your dog, your dog will learn to be weary of hands approaching their face. If your child reaches towards that dogs face he will be wondering if he is going to get hit, does he need to protect himself?
For one I do not care more about my dogs than my kids. However I do care greatly about setting the best example for my kids, and part of that example is being a good pet owner. Do you think my children would learn to respect the dog and not harm it if they saw me lashing out physically when the dog did something? No...they would learn it is ok to use physical force. Knowing toddlers just seeing once is enough for them to mimic it for no reason. So if your child sucker punches your dog out of the blue and he reacts by protecting himself and showing his teeth or growling...is he smart enough not to do that as well?
I have to agree with Emoore that it is a huge challenge to have GSD or any like breed dogs with children. I do not feel the "general public" is capable of putting the effort into that it requires to be a healthy balance to all parties. I almost never recommend that someone get a GSD or similiar breed dog with young children. Not because we don't enjoy ours. Quite the opposite....but because I know how much work goes into it. It truly is like children you get back what you give. I am willing to eat, sleep, and everything else dog right now, because seeing how much my children love and benefit from a great relationship with their well rounded dog and knowing that the puppy will someday give them that same love is worth it to me.


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## fg2chase

Her she is with Molly

*oversized pictures removed by moderator*

Here they are together, I haven't had any problems with them.

They love the baby, I overreacted by hittin him in the face and that was ONLY the one time. THe do pictured above is Molly our female GSD. She sometimes sleeps in front of Emilies door when shes asleep and when she was a newborn baby she did it everyday, if she could sneak in she would sleep next to her crib.


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## Emoore

fg2chase said:


> Her she is with Molly
> 
> *removed oversized picture*
> 
> And again playing with Panzer


See, to me these two pictures are a bite waiting to happen.


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## Holmeshx2

agree Emoore. As they get older they are not as likely to allow it because of pain plus with being a large breed there are too many health issues and injuries that can happen from this its just wrong the have the dog accept being sat on even if the dog seems ok with it it's our job to be their advocate. 

I'm sorry but if you felt as badly as you say you did about it you wouldn't have mentioned hitting the dog on so many different threads and it was always said in almost a bragging way or just a very casual "whatever" manner. Never once has it been said like you made a mistake. 

Again I'm sorry but you don't get a "free card" because of your lifestyle you knew your lifestyle before hand the dog shouldn't have to pay for it. My husband is active duty and has the same schedule as yours and I was working 70-80 hours a week when we first got our dog she was never hit even when she was taking bloody chunks out of me during her biting phase. My husband who actually has a rather bad temper has never hit her admittedly he has raised his voice but then he corrects it. She's not escaping through fences running around the neighborhood and acting up she is happy well adjusted and wel behaved and I have NEVER laid my hands on her EVER! My husband is currently depoyed to Iraq so I'm doing the single parent thing as well trying to keep the house running and while it's not easy it's part of the job. I was at work til 5 then came home and had to study non stop for the next day so I would pack her up in the car go out to the woods and go hiking with her as soon as I got off work. It would go dark and I would pull a flashlight out of my backpack and study my material while hiking with my dog. I CHOSE to bring her home she should NEVER have to suffer for MY choices and MY lifestyle its up to me to make her have the best life possible. Never in a million years is it ok to realize they would be better off somewhere else but since they aren't dead and have an "ok" life then they should stay there. When my husband is home when he gets back from PT he takes her out walking and plays with her until he leaves for work then comes home during his lunch break to play with her more and give her quality time even when it means he goes without lunch. Running outside or with another dog isn't quality they could get that running free in the neighborhood not being owned by anyone you chose to own them it's your job to give them a better life and quality interaction which means lots of individual play time from you and training. They are smart they LOVE to train and no that doesn't mean smacking them training them means grabbing a bag of treats or toys they love and teaching them new tricks or proper behaviors then giving them something positive for a job well done. If I even get somewhat lazy in my training and not as happy about it I see a HUGE change in how my dog works for me and her enthusiasm behind it. Heck the other day she got a verbal correction and it crushed her she sulked for quite awhile over it I couldn't imagine if I hit her out of anger then to go bragg about it on an internet forum only to back peddle once I got called on it.


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## mysweetkaos

Couldn't agree more. I do not think it is a good idea for kids to be in the habit of invading a dogs personal space. Part of the balance with dog and kids is teaching the children to respect the dog as well. Dogs are dogs and if children are allowed to roughhouse all over them it is a matter of time before the dog gets hurt and reacts instinctively. I do feel your pain as a single parent. That I am not, but in my husbands business he is at work usually from 6 am to 7:30 pm, and if he's out of town he leaves Monday morning and returns Friday night. So it is a lot of work I get that.....but I have never hit my kids or my dogs and we all do just fine. Do I trust my 9 yr old Shepherd with my kids to take care of them, to never hurt them.....absolutely without a doubt. Do I in turn expect my kids to not treat Kaos as if he is a toy of theirs and realize he is a living creature who deserves respect and kindness.....yep


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## Betty

Good grief. When the dog chews off half of your kids face what are you going to do first? Get your kid to the hospital or drag the dog out and shoot him?

Are you trying to get your kids bit? If so you are on the right track. Just keep letting the kid climb over the dog like that.

Sooner or later the dog is going to be startled out of a sleep when your child causes pain and he will bite. 

It's instinct.

And it will be no one's fault but yours.

But who will pay the price? Not you, it will be the child and the dog.


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## KSdogowner

I would be very concerned with the kids sitting on the dogs because of potential hip and skeleton injuries to the dog. I understand your challenges of being by yourself due to your wife's deployment but your situation, even though challenging, is very doable. Our family has been through multiple deployments (hubby was gone for the first 3+ years of our daughters life at one point), with three children and multiple dogs. There was no family around to assist either. Stressful at times? Yes, but totally doable without having to lash out at either kids or dogs. I am not trying to judge you but merely offer, together with the others who have already posted a similar comment, a different perspective. Hopefully, you will consider the constructive recommendations given here.


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## Rerun

Phew - shooting dogs, hitting, kicking, punching dogs, kids with half their face missing, dogs digging holes to china, play biting, wife and child beating, all the makes of a good GSD.com thread all wrapped up in just a few pages!


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## Emoore

Rerun said:


> Phew - shooting dogs, hitting, kicking, punching dogs, kids with half their face missing, dogs digging holes to china, play biting, wife and child beating, all the makes of a good GSD.com thread all wrapped up in just a few pages!


I know! Now all we need is somebody to start breeding and it will be the perfect thread!


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## robk

Patience, kindness, gentleness and love. You raise a dog the way you raise a kid. Dogs have many of the same emotions as people. they get embarrassed, they feel shame, they feel fear and they feel happiness and love. I have had dogs all my life and have made many mistakes with them as I have with my children. Life is a journey of learning and working through your mistakes and making small changes for the better along the way. I can deffinately see a difference in the way I respond and treat my current dog from the way I treated my past dogs. The same goes for the way I treat my kids. Yesterday my son dropped a whole container of cat food all over the floor. In the past I would have flown off the handle and yeld at him. However, I noticed that he was very embarrassed and was trying to clean it up (with the help of the cat an dog) so I let it go. Also, the other day my dog (6 months) had an "potty accident" right next to the back door. I could tell he was trying to get out side before he went and just couldn't hold it. I also just opened the door and let him out and cleaned it up with out reacting at all to the dog. I realize that maybe if I had been paying attention I could have let him out faster. These are jut small examples of how I have learned to have more compasion in how I react to the mistakes of those I share life with.


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## GSKnight

Hey, I will admit, I basically tackled my dog the other day... 

He reached down with his mouth and popped off his leash. Ran past me in a sprint, thinking it was a game. Didn't respond to the "COME" command... then tried to make another run past me on the left, heading towards a busy street... the old man (me) went low, wrapped him up and took him down, just like my younger football days. Got hold of his collar and releashed him. He did let out a yelp, but I figured it was better than him getting hit by a car. 

Then I went and rinsed the mud off my PJs... (it was our late night potty break) and threw them in wash.


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## ozzymama

Emoore said:


> I know! Now all we need is somebody to start breeding and it will be the perfect thread!


Well I wasn't going to say anything until I find a vet to reattach Oz's balls, but I'm planning to cross my Saint Bernard with my shepherd mix... I figure 2 negatives make a positive, so if I take two breeds known for bad hips and put them together, only perfect hips can come of it. I'm going to call my new hybrid Saint Shepherds, on the website there will be pictures of the puppies dressed up like the lawn statues of Saints. Oh and all the kennel names will be after actual Saints! I'm pretty excited!

As to kids and dogs, common sense seems to be lacking many times. A dog is a dog. A child is a child. You might think your GSD might be smarter than my honour student, but I know who I would want doing my triple by-pass.

Dogs need to be supervised around children, everywhere one looks there are horror stories of the beloved family pet taking a bite out of Little Johnny... Everyone - should understand the ramifications of raising a dog with a heavy hand. Believe me, I had the most frustrating, irritating adolescent in Oz. Now I have a great dog who we get compliments on his behaviour. I've never raised my hand in anger to him.


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## Emoore

ozzymama said:


> As to kids and dogs, common sense seems to be lacking many times. A dog is a dog. A child is a child. You might think your GSD might be smarter than my honour student, but I know who I would want doing my triple by-pass.


Yeah, a frackin' adult human with an MD. If my choices are a child or a dog, I'll take my chances with clogged arteries.


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## mysweetkaos

Ozzymama....you just made me spit out my coffee. Yeah rough day when I'm still chugging coffee at noon. I too was going to start breeding, but the cost of having K's man parts reassembled + the cost of having gender reassignment done to make Sherman a female, was just too much. I thought I would call them Massive Shepherds, charge $200 bucks a pup and wala I have a new hobby!


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## jang

fg2chase said:


> I want to bury the GSD I got off craigslist! IN the holes he is DIGGING IN MY YARD! lol, I got him on craigslist and hes a good dog except for that! I have caught him in the act and smacked him on the ass and made him lay down and he is still doing it. I about broke my ankle the other night walking in the backyard.


Maybe this should go on the strang stories you've heard about GSD site BUT my trainer told me when Sib was digging to put some of her own poop in the hole and that would stop her--I did..It did!! Strange but true
Jan


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## ozzymama

mysweetkaos said:


> I too was going to start breeding, but the cost of having K's man parts reassembled + the cost of having gender reassignment done to make Sherman a female, was just too much. I thought I would call them Massive Shepherds, charge $200 bucks a pup and wala I have a new hobby!



Well and they'd probably make Sherman live a year as female and undergo extensive therapy before they even declared him a candidate for gender reassignment.


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## GSKnight

can't believe I didn't get one "at'a boy" on my live saving tackle (without breaking my own hip!!!)


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## fg2chase

I will get rid of the dogs, I obviously am not capable of caring for them.


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## jang

fg2chase said:


> I will get rid of the dogs, I obviously am not capable of caring for them.


Please don't feel that way...Sometimes this forum has a way of making one feel completely inadequate..It's really only concern for the breed. We've all been brought up differently and those experiences are what form our adult character. You're doing a good job with the situation you are in.It's good to hear other peoples opinions--even when it hurts.


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## Emoore

fg2chase said:


> I will get rid of the dogs, I obviously am not capable of caring for them.


Well, you have a lot on your plate. If you feel like there's too much going on right now with the kids and your work and your wife being deployed and you don't have the time to teach the kids not to climb on the dog, and to train the dog properly, then yes it's probably a better idea to re-home the dogs than to allow things to continue as the are and possibly have your kids get hurt. 

If you feel like you can do just a little more and devote the time and attention to teaching the kids to treat the dog with gentleness and respect and training the dog to be a well-behaved member of the household, you will be richly rewarded.


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## mysweetkaos

Jang...I too recommended the burying of poop for digging problems. It's worked when K was a puppy and again now with Sherm. The OP seemed to skip right over that advice so he could tell us about man punching his dog.
To the OP why would you say you should just get rid of them....if you truly do love them, you can look through some of the advice and be willing to see where maybe others have a point. I take the safety of my children and the safety of my animals very seriously. So am I going to be quick to point out some of your methods are not best long term. You bet your ** why? because I am sick of hearing horror stories about Shepherds and sick of people blaming animals for being animals, and sick of people making comments about how Shepherds are not good for kids. You know what's not good for kids? Letting them grow up with no respect for animals and some sick sense of justice by physically punishing an animal for being an animal! If you don't train them don't blame them!!
Ozzymama....I have gotten a purple collar and lead for Sherman and much to my sons dismay a pink harness, so we are well on our way!
GSknight, good job on not breaking your hip


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## Whiteshepherds

GSKnight said:


> can't believe I didn't get one "at'a boy" on my live saving tackle (without breaking my own hip!!!)


Don't you hate that? 

AT'A BOY!!


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