# The importance of crate time...Please explain to my family.



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

My wife and children are beginning to irk me. I've put endless hours into training and stabilizing my 7 month old Kira, and everyone else in my household, is basically doing anything they please with Kira.

When I'm home, I teach Kira house manners. This is everything from not jumping on guests, not chewing anything she's not allowed to chew, and taking some crate timeouts to keep her calm when indoors.

Here's the problem:

After I leave for work, Kira is out of her crate all day. (wife is home) By the time I get home, she's like wild animal. My wife lets her run rampant thoughout the house. 

When they walk out the door, they let her pull them out the door.
They play rough with her, and allow her the bite their arms and hands.
When they walk with her, I found out that "she pulls a little". I ask if they corrected her, they said no. I asked why, they shrugged their shoulders and said that it didn't bother THEM.

If I tell them to randomly crate her throughout the day, they don't do it.

I was wondering why Kira starting "acting up" when I crated her the last few times.

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO MY FAMILY, THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING CONSISTANT WITH MY TRAINING, HOUSE MANNERS, AND LEASH WALKING!

When all is said and done, I intend to print this out and give it to them to read.

However, if I'm wrong, and being a bit over the top, I'll take it.

So bring it on!!


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I understand your frustration but you really can't control others.

You do have reason to be concerned about some of those issue,especially the rough housing.

Do you have a trainer? If you do I would have them explain it to your family.
Often people will listen to some outside (authority) rather than dad/husband. A trainer can explain the reasons behind your training.

Having said that, these dogs are smart. When I take Jack for a walk he heels where I want him to with head at my leg. I'm not talking formal heel. When my wife walks him she prefers him a little forward and that's where he walks. When my adult son walks him, he walks in front but loose leash and understands that is where my son wants him. 

The point being that as long as the dog behaves for the family even if there are some differences that to me is what counts.

Different story for sport, or competition dogs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Good Luck. Our solution was to get our own dogs. You do what you want with your dog and I'll train mine so she's not an annoying mess.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't quite know if there is a reason for crate time if you're at home. She should like her crate and be fine going in it, but she shouldn't need the crate as a time out or calm down time (in my opinion). I can rough house with my dog, and he knows that he is only allowed to "bite" MY arms, he doesn't do it with anyone else. But all I have to do is say one word and he calms down or we play something else. I can go from playing to training in a second and he knows it.

If its that important to you that she acts the same with all family members you need to get the whole group involved in formal training with her. My dog definately listens to me much better than to my girlfriend, but will still obey her (just not as quickly). Its also not as important to her if he doesn't listen as fast, where as to me its very important he does what I say as soon as I say it (I'm his handler in the ring).

They quickly figure out what they can and can't get away with depending on the people that are around them, and usually even test the new people that come to see their so called threshold. Also at 7 months old, she's going to still be a little crazy and no amount of training is going to help that until she matures a bit more and isn't as playful. I guess my post doesn't have that much real advice, just that I wouldn't worry about it as much as you do. If it is that important to you then I suggest getting a trainer to tell them, or involving them in the training on a weekly basis. Maybe when they see how fun it is to have a well trained dog they will understand and start helping you with it.


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

I don't think you need to do a random crate test everyday. lol. IMHO, I think your consistency is too strict but hey, I don't know your dog or your routines so don't hold it against me. 

For the biting of the arms or hands, I wrestle with my dog all the time so it wouldn't be fair if I didn't allow her to atleast be able to fight back. As long as she's aware of the amount of pressure used in the bite, which is more like mouthing, I'm fine with it. Again, your way of training your dog is different from how I want mine. 

My wife doesn't really get the routine either so I'm the one who trains and exercises with our GSD the most. What can you do... lol. A happy wife is a happy home.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

It is difficult when the whole family is not on the same page with regard to training the puppy. Frustrating. You do all this work, which is then undone the moment you leave the house!

However, I don't know how you will be able to enforce this when you are gone. If the wife isn't respecting your wishes, the kids won't either, of course. I think this is a marital issue rather than a dog training issue, but many people don't understand why we take our dogs so seriously.

A GSD is a big, powerful dog that has the capacity to do real damage if not controlled. I'm not even talking about biting. Bolting through doors can get a dog killed. Jumping on people and mouthing them can you get sued. A GSD that doesn't listen and respect ALL the humans in the household is a liability. If you can somehow get the family to understand this, they may get the reasoning behind all your rules and boundaries with the dog.

I'm a bit of a control freak as well. There are times for a dog to be a dog, and there are times where the dog needs to learn self-control. If your family wants an unruly GSD that doesn't listen or respect them, I'd say, get another family.  But that's just me, I don't have kids, and this is one of the very reasons!


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

How old is Kira?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Freestep said:


> It is difficult when the whole family is not on the same page with regard to training the puppy. Frustrating. You do all this work, which is then undone the moment you leave the house!
> 
> However, I don't know how you will be able to enforce this when you are gone. If the wife isn't respecting your wishes, the kids won't either, of course. I think this is a marital issue rather than a dog training issue, but many people don't understand why we take our dogs so seriously.
> 
> ...


I am SO GLAD you understand this. This is precisely what I'm concerned about. 

I spend every chance I get, including Friday evening training sessions with a trainer at obedience school. Needless to say, my dog is becoming an amazing dog. However, none of my efforts seem to matter to anyone else but me. My family doesn't care if she pulls. Doesn't care if she jumps up on them or anyone else for that matter. laughs if she chews someone's shoe, etc...
Just the other day, my 7 yr old cried when Kira playfully bit her too hard. I questioned this to my 17 yr old (who happened to be in the room), and she told me that mom and her always play rough with her, when I'm not home. Well, as it turned out, Kira took that type of play to my 7 year old.

I've spent endless amount of time teaching her *bite inhibition*, only to be undone by the rest of my family. 

I may be far from an expert on proper training, but I do know that giving a GSD an arm, they will take a leg. They know how to try to get away with whatever they can.

_I witnessed something I'll never forget. My breeder (who also trains), had his pack running wild while I was there. In a SINGLE command, every one of his dogs stopped what they were doing, and dropped. They all heard his command, turned his way, dropped and just waited._
_Total respect._



paulag1955 said:


> How old is Kira?


Kira is 7 months


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Anthony8858 said:


> Just the other day, my 7 yr old cried when Kira playfully bit her too hard. I questioned this to my 17 yr old (who happened to be in the room), and she told me that mom and her always play rough with her, when I'm not home. Well, as it turned out, Kira took that type of play to my 7 year old.


If THAT incident didn't get through to your wife that things need to change, I don't know what would. Good luck, it sounds like you're going to need it!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> My family doesn't care if she pulls. Doesn't care if she jumps up on them or anyone else for that matter. laughs if she chews someone's shoe, etc...
> Just the other day, my 7 yr old cried when Kira playfully bit her too hard. I questioned this to my 17 yr old (who happened to be in the room), and she told me that mom and her always play rough with her, when I'm not home. Well, as it turned out, Kira took that type of play to my 7 year old.


See, that would drive me CRAZY, and if I had a family doing that, I'd be furious. Maybe your wife and kids don't mind pulling, jumping, chewing shoes, roughhousing, etc. But what if your 7 year old's friends come to visit and THEY get "playfully" bitten? Especially if she happens to break the skin? That kid's parents may not like it, and you could in fact get into some hot water over it. Pretty soon no one will want to come to your house because there is this crazy GSD that no one but you can control. It would irk me to no end to know that, while I'm out making money to support my family, said family is busy undoing all the hard work I've put in AFTER my regular work.

Are you attending puppy classes right now? Have the family come with you, and have the trainer explain why manners are so important for a big dog, and the fact that everyone needs to be on board. Insist that the family attend the obedience classes with you so that they can understand the seriousness and importance of consistency in training.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

GSDkid said:


> I don't think you need to do a random crate test everyday. lol. IMHO, I think your consistency is too strict but hey, I don't know your dog or your routines so don't hold it against me.
> 
> For the biting of the arms or hands, I wrestle with my dog all the time so it wouldn't be fair if I didn't allow her to atleast be able to fight back. As long as she's aware of the amount of pressure used in the bite, which is more like mouthing, I'm fine with it. Again, your way of training your dog is different from how I want mine.
> 
> My wife doesn't really get the routine either so I'm the one who trains and exercises with our GSD the most. What can you do... lol. A happy wife is a happy home.


 
IMO, Crate time is part of her training. I think it's essential that we teach them that there are times when they have to be crated. Whether it's for an hour while mom cooks, or when there are guests, or maybe when we have to go out. I'm not comfortable leaving her loose, when no one's home.
I also feel that crate time, gives her a chance to "come down" a bit. She's a puppy, and she will get excited, and want to play all day. The last thing I want, is for her to rebel against going in ther crate, because it's boring, or punishing.
If I say "Ok, crate"... She doesn't even hesitate. She stops what she's doing, turns, and goes into her crate, and lays down.
Last couple days, she started running away, and doing the oppposite. My wife and kids were laughing, telling me that she does that with them all the time, and let her get away with it.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

That would drive me bonkers to know that all the time and effort I spent was going to a waste because others were undoing my hard work. I always hated sharing dogs when I was growing up because all my hard work would be erased with my dad giving the dog dinner scraps or my mom letting her pull. Just print them some stories of the behavior problems threads and hope they realize that they might be doing long-term harm.


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> IMO, Crate time is part of her training. I think it's essential that we teach them that there are times when they have to be crated. Whether it's for an hour while mom cooks, or when there are guests, or maybe when we have to go out. I'm not comfortable leaving her loose, when no one's home.
> I also feel that crate time, gives her a chance to "come down" a bit. She's a puppy, and she will get excited, and want to play all day. The last thing I want, is for her to rebel against going in ther crate, because it's boring, or punishing.
> If I say "Ok, crate"... She doesn't even hesitate. She stops what she's doing, turns, and goes into her crate, and lays down.
> Last couple days, she started running away, and doing the oppposite. My wife and kids were laughing, telling me that she does that with them all the time, and let her get away with it.


LOL! I totally understand where you're coming from. Ofcourse, if no one is able to supervise then you should crate them. If she's starting to not like her crate, I would be doing the same thing you're doing then. When my girl was about 6 to 7 months, she hated the crate. She learned to enjoy it with treats. But it definitely is difficult with other family members not being consistent with the training.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

I had to deal with this with my boyfriend and his family as well. The best solution that I came up with, and luckily worked for us, was to simply tell them that I am training her this way to save her life. (They still think I'm mean and always call me the "doggie drill sergeant" but at least they do what I ask now...)

I know Freestep touched on it but training Kira will keep her from either getting killed or having to be put down because she's unruly and rough with the wrong person. Explain to your wife that boundaries for Kira could be life or death. It may sound extreme but it is true if you really think about it. All dogs but GSD's especially that have no boundaries are going to be set up for failure and if you're wife can't respect that, then I'm out of suggestions. I wish you luck! It can be super frustrating when everyone's not on the same page and you always feel like you're having to do damage control instead of moving forward


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Did you get the dog for yourself or as a family pet? In my house, each dog is owned by a single person and no one else does anything with that dog unless asked. When my daughter spends the night at a friend's she has to ask someone else to "dogsit" for her, as do I or my husband. 
As to the crate thing itself, I run a dog daycare and one thing I have learned over the past 4+ years is that dogs absolutely need down time during the day. If not, they get just like you are describing, frantic, slap happy, and uncontrollable. At a minimum I would insist Kira get's crated for at least an hour or 2 during the day and be left alone to sleep. Dogs in their natural state tend to sleep about 12 hours a day, this is what their bodies require! It helps them grow and helps their brains develop!!! For pups, they need even more, so if nothing else make this clear to your wife and kids that this is not negotiable.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Anthony8858 said:


> IMO, Crate time is part of her training. I think it's essential that we teach them that there are times when they have to be crated. Whether it's for an hour while mom cooks, or when there are guests, or maybe when we have to go out. I'm not comfortable leaving her loose, when no one's home.
> I also feel that crate time, gives her a chance to "come down" a bit. She's a puppy, and she will get excited, and want to play all day.


I agree - learning to accept down time is an important part of training. I need and want my dogs to be able to hang out and chill.


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## Jazmeena (Feb 9, 2012)

just a thought - being a wife myself - this might be something she can relate to a little easier. I fully agree with the other posts, that in order for Kira to become such a great dog, she has to have consistency. It is really no different than say your 7 year old asking mom if she can have a cookie, mom says no, but then she comes ask you and you say yes!! I would also remind her that Kira is not done growing and what is now a playful bite that might hurt a bit, may later become a deep bite wound that requires stitches and/or becomes infected and needs medical attention! 

Just a thought!


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Sometimes mine goes to his crate for no reason other than I want a break or am doing something that I don't want him on my heels. He happily goes and chills out. Our crate is in our bedroom so he can still see and hear alot of the happenings in the house.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I can't quote all the replies....

The problem I'm having is that my family isnt taking me serious. No matter how much I try to stress how imprtant it is (for all the reasons mentioned), they laugh at me. It's driving me crazy!!!

They make fun of me. They call me "dog whisperer". "Obsessed dog person". They make fun of the fact that I come here for info. They just don't get it.

They REFUSE to acknowledge that Kira will be a 70lb GSD, very capable of hurting someone. Whether accidentally, or intentionally.
My 17 yr old has an attitude. If I tell her, NOT to allow her to pull, she tells me that Kira won't listen to her. if I attempt to show her how to correct, they think I'm acting like a "know it all".

So frustrating. I'm out numbered.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> I can't quote all the replies....
> 
> The problem I'm having is that my family isnt taking me serious. No matter how much I try to stress how imprtant it is (for all the reasons mentioned), they laugh at me. It's driving me crazy!!!
> 
> ...


Is it possible to have a very serious conversation with your wife about how important this is? I know you may be outnumbered in your whole family but your wife NEEDS to be one your side on this. Or else your family needs to be relieved of all responsibility for Kira. If they can't follow the rules, they don't get to have fun with the dog?


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Anthony8858 said:


> I can't quote all the replies....
> 
> The problem I'm having is that my family isnt taking me serious. No matter how much I try to stress how imprtant it is (for all the reasons mentioned), they laugh at me. It's driving me crazy!!!
> 
> ...


I'm angry for you...that would be SO frustrating!

Even tho mine gets away with more with my husband, nothing earth shattering, we are still on the same page with having a well mannered dog. Ours is also expected to obey our two teenage girls and does. My girls have gone to several training classes with me and sat quietly on the side and sometimes the trainer would ask for viewers partcipation for heel in & out of a croud, etc. which they have done.

Was getting Kira a family decision? I think that makes a huge difference.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Anthony I live w/ the results of inconsistent training (my own fault). Daisy as a puppy was allowed by me to not go into the crate and other really important behaviors that now effect her quality of life,ie no vacations w/ us ,difficulties w/ management issues that keep her from many activities that would enrich her life. In regard to your family they need a Scare Tactic session or someone they do see as an authority to say to them Kira will pay for their unwillingness to follow the guidelines your asking them too.What is cute in 30lb pup isn't in a 75 lb young adult dog and the dog pays.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Courtney said:


> I'm angry for you...that would be SO frustrating!
> 
> Even tho mine gets away with more with my husband, nothing earth shattering, we are still on the same page with having a well mannered dog. Ours is also expected to obey our two teenage girls and does. My girls have gone to several training classes with me and sat quietly on the side and sometimes the trainer would ask for viewers partcipation for heel in & out of a croud, etc. which they have done.
> 
> ...


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Anthony I live w/ the results of inconsistent training (my own fault). Daisy as a puppy was allowed by me to not go into the crate and other really important behaviors that now effect her quality of life,ie no vacations w/ us ,difficulties w/ management issues that keep her from many activities that would enrich her life. In regard to your family they need a Scare Tactic session or someone they do see as an authority to say to them Kira will pay for their unwillingness to follow the guidelines your asking them too.What is cute in 30lb pup isn't in a 75 lb young adult dog and the dog pays.


 
You are so right.
My wheels are spinning. I'll try to teach them a lesson.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> Courtney said:
> 
> 
> > I'm angry for you...that would be SO frustrating!
> ...


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Anthony, I bet she was a hit!

I often joke...would anyone notice my GSD hiding under my desk?? LOL I would love to bring him to work and give him several kisses on his nose before leaving everyday


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Courtney said:


> Anthony, I bet she was a hit!
> 
> I often joke...would anyone notice my GSD hiding under my desk?? LOL I would love to bring him to work and give him several kisses on his nose before leaving everyday


LOL.. She was so good... except only once ..hehe

She was under my desk, and one of my associates walked in my office in a rather huffy- puffy way. Kira jumped up from behind my desk and gave one of her patented deep _"I'm gonna scare the crap out of you"_ barks. The guy almost lost his lunch (from an hour earlier) LOL.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> The problem I'm having is that my family isnt taking me serious. No matter how much I try to stress how imprtant it is (for all the reasons mentioned), they laugh at me. It's driving me crazy!!!
> 
> They make fun of me. They call me "dog whisperer". "Obsessed dog person". They make fun of the fact that I come here for info. They just don't get it.


This is not only a dog training issue, this is a martial/family issue. Why are they allowed to make fun of you, and flaunt your rules? That's flat out disrespect.

Key to this is that your wife isn't respecting you. That makes me mad. The kids--they are just following their mother. You and your wife have to represent a unified front in this issue, and she's not taking you seriously. I'd actually consider going to family counseling about this, because it's making me mad just thinking about it, I can't imagine how angry and frustrated you must be.

Like another poster said, it's like raising a child. If you say the kid can't have a cookie, and he goes and asks mom for a cookie and she gives him one anyway; you get mad, your wife laughs at you... what is the kid learning? Not only that he doesn't have to listen to dad, but that mom has no respect for dad... so why should he? The kid can have whatever he wants, as long as you aren't there. And of course you can't be there 100% of the time--you have to go out there and make money to support this ungrateful family. 

That's a hypothetical situation, of course--you don't want to raise your kids like that. Why would you want a dog raised like that?

So the dog learns she doesn't have to listen to you. Not only that, but your kids are learning they don't have to listen to you. The dog could wind up dead (either hit by a car from bolting out the door or pulling the leash out of someone's hand OR by biting someone too hard and euthanized as a "vicious dog"). And aside from that, we know what happens to kids who learn they don't have to respect rules and boundaries. 

It may seem extreme, but it comes down to life or death for the dog, and to who knows what for your kids. If they won't get on board and continue to disprespect you, look into family counseling as well as obedience school. Or maybe put the family into obedience school.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Freestep said:


> This is not only a dog training issue, this is a martial/family issue. Why are they allowed to make fun of you, and flaunt your rules? That's flat out disrespect.
> 
> Key to this is that your wife isn't respecting you. That makes me mad. The kids--they are just following their mother. You and your wife have to represent a unified front in this issue, and she's not taking you seriously. I'd actually consider going to family counseling about this, because it's making me mad just thinking about it, I can't imagine how angry and frustrated you must be.
> 
> ...


Spot on.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Freestep said:


> This is not only a dog training issue, this is a martial/family issue. Why are they allowed to make fun of you, and flaunt your rules? That's flat out disrespect.
> 
> Key to this is that your wife isn't respecting you. That makes me mad. The kids--they are just following their mother. You and your wife have to represent a unified front in this issue, and she's not taking you seriously. I'd actually consider going to family counseling about this, because it's making me mad just thinking about it, I can't imagine how angry and frustrated you must be.
> 
> ...


This is what I was thinking..because if your 17 year old doesn't listen about this, she's also not going to pay attention to other rules that you've set or be setting. The younger girls are learning what they also can get away with. My kids didn't always like me, but they followed the rules.


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## grimm (Jan 20, 2012)

freeze all access to money until you get respect. see how your wife and daughter like that!!


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

If the family is around to watch her, I fail to understand why you think she needs to be put into her crate. I wouldn't listen to my DH either if he told me to randomly crate the dogs while I am at home with them. As far as the leash pulling, house manners, jumping on guests, etc-yeah I can see your concern with your family letting her run wild. It may seem cute to them now because she is a puppy but just wait until she is full grown and much stronger-they will regret not having reinforced your training if they don't see the light before then.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

You have every right to be frustrated!! Before we got dogs, my husband and I sat down together and established the rules we would have in place so that we both understood what was going to be permitted (no feeding from the table, no dogs on the furniture, etc.). That step prevented a lot of later conflict because we were both on the same page.

For a skill as difficult as loose leash walking, having other people undermine your training means she will likely never walk nicely on lead unless you resort to a prong collar. Every time she is rewarded with forward motion while the leash is taunt, the training she did with you goes out the window.

Can your family go with you to a set of classes with your dog, to see the work that is involved in training? 

I'm sorry this is such a challenge for you. Everyone needs to be united in training for it to be completely successful.


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## fishernut (Dec 15, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> I can't quote all the replies....
> 
> The problem I'm having is that my family isnt taking me serious. No matter how much I try to stress how imprtant it is (for all the reasons mentioned), they laugh at me. It's driving me crazy!!!
> 
> ...



Thank you for this thread, Anthony. I am in a VERY similar situation with my family, and I may just have to print this out for my husband (although I'm not so sure that would help much.... :rolleyes2

.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> If the family is around to watch her, I fail to understand why you think she needs to be put into her crate. I wouldn't listen to my DH either if he told me to randomly crate the dogs while I am at home with them.


If the husband is the one managing the training, then I would think that listening to his request would be at the very least respectful of the time he is putting in to the task they are not willing to take on. 


When we first opened our daycare, I was keeping all the dogs out and playing all day long since I thought that is what people were paying for and what they should get. However, come afternoon I was having issues with dogs getting in squabbles seemingly over nothing (no real fights, just a lot of mini blowups), plus I was having a lot more incidences of dogs just getting minor injuries from running into things like the fence or other dogs, that type of thing. I did some research and talked to some more experienced daycare owners and they all told me the same thing. I needed to institute a set nap break or breaks throughout the day. So I did, and almost immediately I saw the little issues go away. The dogs I thought of as troublemakers became a joy to have around and the dogs who were just plain grumpy at the end of the day went home in a great mood!
Some of the unwanted behavior the OP is experiencing when he gets home could very well be due to an unrested dog who truly needs down time. Plus learning to settle and be quiet in and of itself is a VERY useful life skill.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

I don't believe in using a crate for time outs, or for anything once the dog is house trained. I definitely don't use it when someone is home. However, I do understand how terrible it feels to spend so much time correcting a dog and working with it only to have someone do the exact opposite of what you do. Sadly, you wont change them.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Had a long talk with the wife, and she seems to understand. She says she "feels bad" for Kira for being crated for no reason, I fully explained that there is a reason, and I demonstrated this last night.
Once again, when I got home from work, Kira was wild. After greeting her, and letting her play for a while, I crated her while I did a few things around the house. After only 30 minutes, she was out, and obviously in a different frame of mind.
I showed her a different dog after giving her a short break.

Also, to some of the others.....

Keep in mind, we're dealing with a puppy. She's only 7 months. There WILL come a time when she's free all day. Just not yet.

I've taken baby steps in everything I've done with her, and keeping her crate free is not something I intend to do overnight. 

It was only 2 weeks ago, I started to get her used to staying out of her crate all night. I took advantage of a few nights, where I knew I could only get 3-4 hours sleep, and left her free. Now she's out all night. She sleeps on the sofa, and I find her right where I left her.

I also spoke to my children, and issued a warning. I told them that we're going to have to follow my rules, or they would be punished. Case closed.
They all agreed that I was serious, and would crack down.
They didn't realize they were disrespecting me. They thought they were being cute and funny.

Anyway, this is what I wake up to each morning:


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

everyone in the housewhole has to be on the same
page with Kira's training and it's so easy to do.
you have a choice you can come together as a team
and have a very nice trained dog or you can do and not do things
in coordination and have a beautifull untrained dog.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> everyone in the housewhole has to be on the same
> page with Kira's training and it's so easy to do.
> you have a choice you can come together as a team
> and have a very nice trained dog or you can do and not do things
> in coordination and have a beautifull untrained dog.


Agreed.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

glad you got thingsworked out. BTW Kira looks very comfy.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

LOL! Kira sure likes her couch.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

UPDATE:

The powers that be have worked their magic!!!

This morning, my wife takes Kira for a morning walk. I live in a community with waterfront on one side, and a main road on the other. For whatever reason, she takes Kira on the main blvd side, for her walk. 
*Kira was wearing a prong collar, and my wife failed to properly secure it.*

At one point, my wife started doing a "power walk", and Kira started running. Her collar popped off, and Kira took off ahead of my wife. She was heading straight for an intersection, and my wife yelled "KIRA WAIT"!!

As I TRAINED her to do, Kira stopped and dropped on the spot.

My wife came back from her walk pale as a ghost, and obviously shaken. She told me what happened. She also expressed a tremendous amount of gratitude for teaching Kira to "Wait" on command.

I think now she fully understands the importance of having a manageable dog.

Things do have a way of working themselves out.

FWIW... I''ve banned the kids from walking her without adult supervision. I told them, I'll decide when I feel ready. I also made it clear that the first one to test me, will get grounded for at least a month.

Not to make this a "bad expereince" for the children, they're all required to attend tonight's training, and intend to have an extended class with them involved.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

So you're the only male in the house? I'm the opposite, I'm the only female in the household, even my dang cat is a male. I am outnumbered too. 

You are doing a great job with Kira. I'm glad your wife is in the same page as you know.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> LOL! Kira sure likes her couch.


Hehe... She loves that spot. I've always been a bit of a stickler when it comes to pets on the furniture, but this little girl is so good, I had to give in for her. 



Josie/Zeus said:


> So you're the only male in the house? I'm the opposite, I'm the only female in the household, even my dang cat is a male. I am outnumbered too.
> 
> You are doing a great job with Kira. I'm glad your wife is in the same page as you know.


 
Yours is much easier. ....

Just put loads of food on the table, and they all shut up.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I'm so glad everyone has finally seen the light! Now time will tell if they will be consistent with the plan. Don't be afraid to issue reminders if needed.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Kira is lovely, and what a comfy sleeping spot!! She is adorable.

That's really scary about the prong popping off. I didn't realize that you already had Kira on a prong. Does she still pull even with the prong? That's so wonderful that she obeyed your wife's command to wait, especially if you wife has not been actively involved in Kira's training. That could have ended badly. I think you made the right choice to not allow the kids to walk her unsupervised. I hope the kids like going to class with you. The kids in our classes always seemed like they were having fun.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

ahh.. glad you got it worked out.

guess you can disregard the pm i sent


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Egads, I'm glad everyone finally takes you seriously and appreciates all your hard work! 

You might want to consider getting something like this to attach to her flat collar and the leash, so if the prong ever comes apart again she won't be loose: Leerburg | Leather Pull Tab

Leerburg also has a leash with the prong tab built in: Leerburg | Leerburg's Prong Collar Leash™










I have Leerburg leather leashes and matching pull tabs for both of my dogs, and they are really good quality. They start out fairly stiff but soften up nicely with use. 

With the previous leather leashes I've owned I've had trouble with the clasp seizing and the leather stretching and becoming discolored from going to the beach and getting saltwater on them in the car on the drive home, but these are still in perfect shape.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Egads, I'm glad everyone finally takes you seriously and appreciates all your hard work!
> 
> You might want to consider getting something like this to attach to her flat collar and the leash, so if the prong ever comes apart again she won't be loose: Leerburg | Leather Pull Tab
> 
> ...


 
This is excellent advice. I'm ordering one

Thanks for sharing


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I agree - learning to accept down time is an important part of training. I need and want my dogs to be able to hang out and chill.


I haven't read all of the posts but IMO, there is NOTHING worse than a dog that HAS to be crated in order to rest in the house. Puppyhood is the time to teach then how to rest/"chill" when LOOSE in the house. That is unless you WANT a dog that is like a tornado in the house when uncrated.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

my dogs rest in their crates, and no tornado's here.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

BlackGSD said:


> I haven't read all of the posts but IMO, there is NOTHING worse than a dog that HAS to be crated in order to rest in the house. Puppyhood is the time to teach then how to rest/"chill" when LOOSE in the house. That is unless you WANT a dog that is like a tornado in the house when uncrated.


I think the issue was that the family was not encouraging the puppy to chill at all while they were in charge of her. The crating was the best solution for the OP to get the dog some down time during the day when he wasn't there. As stated in other follow up posts by the OP the pup has learned to relax and even sleeps out of the crate and does absolutely fine thus far.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Anthony8858 said:


> You are so right.
> My wheels are spinning. I'll try to teach them a lesson.







But seriously, just go through the aggression forum and pick out some threads to let them know what they are doing is playing Russian roulette with a dog who will have the capability to hurt them badly. If they are lucky, it will be them that will be hurt. If they are unlucky, it will be one of their friends, who will sue your family, who will no longer be their friends, and your dog will be dead.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

bocron said:


> I think the issue was that the family was not encouraging the puppy to chill at all while they were in charge of her. The crating was the best solution for the OP to get the dog some down time during the day when he wasn't there. As stated in other follow up posts by the OP the pup has learned to relax and even sleeps out of the crate and does absolutely fine thus far.


Let me clarify.

I think it's important to have the dog understand that being in her crate is simply "part of her day". Nothing more than that. No punishment, no forced timeouts. Just "Ok, it's crate time".

I've been doing this since day one, and she willingly goes in her crate,and will accept it as a safe, comforting place for her.
This was more about teaching her house manners, and maintaining her balanced, excitement level and temperament in the house.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> and that's why you always leave a note - YouTube
> 
> But seriously, just go through the aggression forum and pick out some threads to let them know what they are doing is playing Russian roulette with a dog who will have the capability to hurt them badly. If they are lucky, it will be them that will be hurt. If they are unlucky, it will be one of their friends, who will sue your family, who will no longer be their friends, and your dog will be dead.


Haha. Funny


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

I'm not sure why there is an assumption that this dog will become dangerous? A lot of stuff is sort of personal preference manner issues. Pulling on lead, being free in the house, etc doesn't make a dog aggressive. Maybe I missed something?

It sounds like a resolution has been made, which is great news!

Maybe the family would be more into working with Kira is it was more fun and less "obedience". Maybe they could work on Crate Games with her? 
















Or teaching tricks?
Teaching a trick is the least important part of teaching a trick


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> and that's why you always leave a note - YouTube


BEST TV SERIES EVER!!! :wub:


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Anthony8858 said:


> I am SO GLAD you understand this. This is precisely what I'm concerned about.
> 
> I spend every chance I get, including Friday evening training sessions with a trainer at obedience school. Needless to say, my dog is becoming an amazing dog. However, none of my efforts seem to matter to anyone else but me. My family doesn't care if she pulls. Doesn't care if she jumps up on them or anyone else for that matter. laughs if she chews someone's shoe, etc...
> *Just the other day, my 7 yr old cried when Kira playfully bit her too hard. I questioned this to my 17 yr old (who happened to be in the room), and she told me that mom and her always play rough with her, when I'm not home. Well, as it turned out, Kira took that type of play to my 7 year old.*
> ...


AgileGSD - it was back at the beginning.

BEST TV SERIES EVER!!! :wub:

And it's coming back! :happyboogie:


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