# Trial weekend Oct 1-2, 2011



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

We are trialing this weekend. I was going to save an update until tomorrow, but Pimg did SO GOOD today, I couldn't resist an update. As I posted in the braggs section, she was able to clear out Level 1 for Strategy (CL1-S) and Fun (CL1-F) games. She was super fast today, and once again I received a ton of complements (which always makes me feel good)!

There were actually quite a few GSDs there, a couple of them really good. Super cool to see quality GSD representation!

Unfortunately I didn't get video of our first run today- Standard (Level 2). I handed my camera to a young teenager who I would have assumed is "up on technology." You know- press "on" and then press "record."  Oh well. It's really too bad though because that run clearly set the pace for our runs today. Pretty quick, nice handler focus, really good obstacle focus. We Q'ed this run.
*Standard course time:* 71.34
*Run time:* 35.46
*Course yardage:* 138 yards
*Yards/second:* 3.89

Our second run was Colors. I was really excited about this one since this was our first opportunity today to close out a title. I really don't think that affected our run; I have yet to feel nervous on the course. I really don't know what happened in this run, but it was off from the beginning... A couple lessons learned-

You don't always have to lead out. It's not appropriate in all situations, and you shouldn't neccissarily do it "just to do it."
We really need to get our contacts down. We are currently just babysitting and praying... (We have been working hard on this, but have a long way to go.)
Messing up on a run does NOT mean you are done! Keep going and don't hesitate!
Here's the lousy Colors run, which admittedly doesn't look _as_ bad as it felt in real life. But look close- there's a million mistakes... We did not Q in this run:





Our third run was Jackpot. I was a bit unsure about this one since I hadn't ever played this game before. I have to say- this may have been the most fun game so far! I had a blast figuring out how to accumulate as many points as possible- not to mention coming up with backup plans based on how far we got in our "plan" prior to the buzzer. The gamble was pretty easy for Level 1- just very minor angled jumps straight in a row. The higher levels had a pretty difficult threadle that not many people passed. I am crazy proud of this run. We got 57pts, enough for first place by a whopping 12pts! Here's our Jackpot run, which we Q'ed:





Our fourth run today was Fullhouse- another game I hadn't run before. I found this one just a little bit tricky trying to time the buzzer. The closing was only 5 seconds to get on the table to stop the clock. But the judge built the course so that the table was wrapped by a tunnel. I didn't think we would have too much trouble with table/tunnel discrimination (and we didn't) but some dogs really did. This was another fun run to try to accumulate as many points as possible. Now that I understand the game better, I think I could do better with points next time (even though we got 33pts, enough for first place by 9pts). Here's our fullhouse run, which we Q'ed:





Here's a photo while we were waiting to run Jackpot:









Today's bounty:


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## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

Congrats! Nice runs.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Wow! Well done, love your pups attitude and enthusiasm.

Interesting to see how your contacts improve/progress with your new classes/instructor. How does she train and what does she suggest?

Heck, my MACH2 dog Bretta LEAPT over the down contact on the aframe TWICE yesterday! Good thing it was in the FAST game that contact is WAY more important to me than the Q. So we did the aframe FOUR times in the run. 3 times initial to get the points (finally) but then also in the flow as as exited. She nailed it the last 2 times and we later in the day had no issues on the standard course. So the NQ was more than worth it in FAST.

So training, fixing and having CLEAR criteria with the contacts is key. I do NOT run on when I get a flyoff or jump over. I 'mark' it by NOT moving on which is the reward my dogs want and why they didn't stop in the first place. The reward for stopping/pausing is to run on . The reward for running off on their own is NOT to continue to run on!!!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

great runs !!!!!!!! Don't ya love CPE games?? Here's a tip I learned a long time ago, with my long legged fast gsd, who sometimes liked to clear those down contacts on the aframe/dogwalk...IF you have to babysit,,when you are coming to the down contact, lean back vs bending forward,,forward is 'pushing' them forward..

If you watch your first vid,,you were leaning forward,,she bailed,,the second one,,you were leaning back,,she nailed it))

great job, she is FAST, she is focused and I LOVE those weavepoles coming off the aframe,,GREAT JOB!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

You should be very proud of Ping and yourself. Ping is a great dog and it is awesome that the two of you are out there learning and improving your skills. Most importantly, it seems like you are both having a really good time.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks guys! I'm so proud of my girl! We had a stellar day today, and overall a really fun weekend! Today's exciting event had to have been snooker. I was running Pimg towards two tunnels with the openings about 6 feet apart. The left was worth three points and the right five. Pimg was on my right side heading towards the proper (right side) tunnel, but out of nowhere decided to take the three point tunnel- taking me out in the process! Now, I'm no light guy... but Pimg in her best Karate Kid imitation "sweeped the leg" taking me out completely! haha! Luckily, I was able to hop back up, get her into the proper tunnel, and complete the course- all within the course time. We also happened to not only Q, but got first in class (meaning- ALL of level 2)! I wish so bad I had gotten that on video!

Pimg has another *awesome* day! She runs 20" Veterans and is typically the only one in her class. Because of that, we always get first place. But that's not all that fun, is it? I always compare my times against the entire group of people at that level. Below are our results for the weekend:

*Saturday*
-Standard (Round 1):

Standard Course Time: 62
Course Yards: 138
Run Time: 35.46
Yards/Sec: 3.89
*Q: Yes*
*Level Placement: 1st*
1st Place Time: 35.46
2nd Place Time: 38.59 (Border Collie)
3rd Place Time: 45.48 (Portuguese Podengo)

-Colors:

Standard Course Time: 52
Course Yards: 94
Run Time: 21.87
Yards/Sec: 4.30
*Q: No*
*Level Placement: 2nd* (Don't really count to me since the NQ)
1st Place Time: 17.68 (Sheltie)
2nd Place Time: 34.27 (Sheltie)
3rd Place Time: 37.75 (Havanese)

-Jackpot:

Standard Course Time: 48
Run Time: 40.34
Points: 57
*Q: Yes*
*Level Placement: 1st*
1st Place Points: 57
2nd Place Points: 45 (Sheltie)
3rd Place Points: 39 (All American)

-Fullhouse:

Standard Course Time: 35
Run Time: 32.04
Points: 33
*Q: Yes*
*Level Placement: 1st*
1st Place Points: 33
2nd Place Points: 24 (English Springer Spaniel)
3rd Place Points: 18 (Sheltie)

*Sunday*
-Snooker:

Standard Course Time: 45
Run Time: 42.27
Points: 48
*Q: Yes*
*Level Placement: 1st*
1st Place Points: 48
2nd Place Points: 42 (Border Collie)
3rd Place Points: 42 (Sheltie)

-Jumpers:

Standard Course Time: 37
Course Yards: 100
Run Time: 19.41
Yards/Sec: 5.15
*Q: Yes*
*Level Placement: 3rd*
1st Place Time: 17.84 (Bearded Collie)
2nd Place Time: 18.12 (Sheltie)
3rd Place Time: 19.41

-Wildcard:

Standard Course Time: 37
Course Yards: 82
Run Time: 16.31
Yards/Sec: 5.03
*Q: Yes*
*Level Placement: 1st*
1st Place Time: 16.31
2nd Place Time: 18.98 (Sheltie)
3rd Place Time: 21.74 (Sheltie)

-Standard (Round 2):

Standard Course Time: 62
Course Yards: 138
Run Time: 30.88
Yards/Sec: 4.47
*Q: Yes*
*Level Placement: 1st*
1st Place Time: 30.88
2nd Place Time: 33.18 (Bearded Collie)
3rd Place Time: 43.26 (Sheltie)


So you can see- we did really good, compared to the entire level- we came in 1st regularly! I'm so proud!

I didn't bother anyone with taking video today- at least until our last standard run. Here it is:





(Oh, and on a side note- that bearded collie was _crazy_ fast. Too bad the handler wasn't more consistent. They NQ'ed often, but always has screaming fast runs... It was very fun to watch them: huge dog, TONS of hair, so fast...)


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Interesting to see how your contacts improve/progress with your new classes/instructor. How does she train and what does she suggest?
> 
> So training, fixing and having CLEAR criteria with the contacts is key. I do NOT run on when I get a flyoff or jump over. I 'mark' it by NOT moving on which is the reward my dogs want and why they didn't stop in the first place. The reward for stopping/pausing is to run on . The reward for running off on their own is NOT to continue to run on!!!


My new instructor is onboard with whatever contact training method we choose for our dogs. She isn't pushy in any way and will offer advice based on the method/techniques we choose to employ to train contacts. I personally am choosing to use SG's method of contact training as described in her book Shaping Success. It starts with nose touches eventually working to targeting on the ground. Next up is backchaining the nose touch/target on a set of stairs. Once the stairs are rock solid, she starts doing a "houdini" magic trick "slight of foot" using her foot to slip the target out of view while the dog isn't looking. The dog still targets because it doesn't realize the target is missing. Slight of foot puts it back in place prior to the dog "asking questions." I like the concept a lot. She also writes about the importance of good backup skills as it teaches the dog to really use their hind quarters to shift their weight backwards- relieving stress on the elbows. It should go without saying that stress on the elbows should be eliminated.

The issue, of course, is that these foundational skills were not built in Pimg. I didn't really know about these things when we started, and quite honestly I've yet to see, read, or hear about an agility class that teaches true foundational skills like these. We are working daily on our nose targeting. Pimg is a superstar at nose targeting as long as the target is in the air. Once I set it on the ground, she immediately switches to paw targeting. My instructor has given me plenty of help with this, and we're working towards excellence.

So though you've asked me a couple times now about what my instructor thinks about contacts, what she uses, and how she trains it- honestly, it just isn't an easy thing to answer. She really is SO helpful and SO willing to give advice. But I can't see her even thinking about pushing a training technique on me. She will give me _facts_ and allow me to do with them what I wish.

By the way- you might imagine this *has* caused some serious issues for me in trial and class. Because Pimg doesn't really have any contact training to speak of, I *do not* want to train her to rely on me babysitting the contacts. But at this point- I have no choice but to do that because of her need to jump off so high up. I think it sends conflicting messages, and as such- I really am trying to get as much foundational stuff trained as possible to start moving to some stair training... It's tough stuff... So much work to do...



JakodaCD OA said:


> great runs !!!!!!!! Don't ya love CPE games?? Here's a tip I learned a long time ago, with my long legged fast gsd, who sometimes liked to clear those down contacts on the aframe/dogwalk...IF you have to babysit,,when you are coming to the down contact, lean back vs bending forward,,forward is 'pushing' them forward..
> 
> If you watch your first vid,,you were leaning forward,,she bailed,,the second one,,you were leaning back,,she nailed it))
> 
> great job, she is FAST, she is focused and I LOVE those weavepoles coming off the aframe,,GREAT JOB!


Thanks Diane- I am SOOOO glad I jumped on the forum during some down time at the trial. You're RIGHT! When I lean forward, she almost always flies off regardless of what I am doing. In the standard video I posted above, you can see that I was leaning forward on the a-frame. Fortunately, Pimg hit the contact, but it was _close_. More stupid- I turned into the a-frame and Pimg jumped right past me. During the run- I was shocked she blind-crossed me! But after watching the video, she didn't blind cross me at all. I just turned my back to her while she was jumping off the a-frame. So dumb. And all stemming from just crappy contact criteria... We truly are working on it. But the funny part- check out the dogwalk at the end of that video, LOL. See me almost falling backwards!?? LOL! We nailed that contact! hahaha! Thanks for the observation- it probably saved us a Q!


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

WooHoo, Congrats Willy & Pimg. Wish CPE were around here.


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

Congrats!! Nice runs, love the place.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Love how well you both did at the trial and how excited you are. You really did very well.

I guess why I keep asking about your instructor (and love that she's flexible with her training) is how does SHE train her dog???? What is HER criteria and why? 

Because there's a reason she has chosen that (experience and knowledge?) and usually if my instructor chooses a method for HER dog(s) it's cause she's tried other things that didn't work as well, and now does something that's working better.

In some ways I DO 'babysit' my contacts. This is 4 dogs into agility! I do NOT take them for granted  Because while in class I can generally put my dog onto a contact obstacle and just tear on across the room like a maniac to look way back and see my dogs standing in a perfect 2on/2off waiting for a release. I've come to realize there is no way no how that holds up at trials for my GSD's. Doesn't matter that is should. It does NOT! Add the fun, excitement and whoohoo of a trial and both Bretta (with her MACH2) and GloryB (with her zero titles  ) will leap over those contacts wanting to go go go go go.

So I yell 'go Target' when they get on (not when they are coming down) and I almost ALWAYS can beat them to the end where I STOP DEAD AND SHOULD BE LOOKING AT A PERFECT 2ON/2OFF beside me (I don't stand in front and block) before I release and WE move on. Is it always a perfect 2on/2off really? uh...........sadly not  . But we never never never never never just move on. Never. If they came off, I'm there with my overly acted SHOCKED 'oh my gosh what happened you crazy dog' verbals (I really am say that, not mad or mean, just all surprised). And we are NOT moving forward!!!!!!! I usually end up with them circling, coming back and even had Bretta leap back on the down contact to THEN give a perfect 2on/2off. Which shows she 'got' my message (oops, forgot the 2on/2off how about this???). 

By stopping and exaggerating the NOT going on, the dogs figure out the jumping off, not doing 2on/2off not only means they didn't get to reward themselves by running on..... we actually even spend MORE time on the darn downside then if they had done what they are supposed to!

I know many people with drivey dogs STOP their runs and leave the ring slowly and in control if their dogs miss a contact. THey feel that's the best way to 'mark' a missed contact and remove all the REWARDING the dog gives itself when they move on before we ask them to, is to leave the ring. I don't like doing that (never have) because then I miss all the training I could get from whatever the rest of the course has (and maybe more contacts?).

This is why for me, with GloryB, I keep saying that I am trialing but NOT with the specific aim to Q. Those are just extra credit! I have her entered as a 'green' dog to TRAIN! I want a good startline stay. I want a good weavepole entry and for her to stay in. I want good contacts. 

In the meantime I learned that initially she didn't like new/strange dogwalks, she was really slow the first few trials going across. I learned she didn't like the panel jump at trials, got refusals with her going around the first few trials. And she will BLOW her normally perfect 2on/2offs at trials! So we work on fixing those, and train for those at the trial. 

Hey, our Q's will come!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I get where you're coming from. Come to think of it, while I know my instructor uses 2o2o, I guess I haven't asked her how she trained it. I'll be sure to bring it up on Thursday. Unfortunately, I didn't get any video of her runs this weekend as I was working the ring when she was running. Even with her torn meniscus she had some amazing runs (and some not-so-good ones). She's lucky her crazy fast border collie has good directional queues. She was practically able to stand in the middle of the ring and guide him through the jumpers course with directionals. So cool. For contacts she uses 2o2o and is _nowhere_ near babysitting them. All but one that I saw were perfect 2o2o from more than 20 feet away. So yes, it would be worthwhile to ask her the training method she uses for it. I will do so...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

great runs and GREAT TIMES! my feeling is, even tho your babysitting somewhat, you are STILL making GREAT time..so you can really afford to ..

While not real popular now, when I was trialing my long legged contact jumper,,I found doing running contacts worked for her..sure there was some babysitting going on, but as with Pimg, mine had fast times, and I could "afford" to babysit, mostly the Aframe..that's where mine just loved to launch from

In the end, you have to figure out what works best for YOUR dog, not the fashion of the day, or what you think you 'have' to do..Of course there's no law against trying 'anything'..)

be proud, you've both come a long way, and she is a really great teacher for you)


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

JakodaCD OA said:


> In the end, you have to figure out what works best for YOUR dog, not the fashion of the day, or what you think you 'have' to do..Of course there's no law against trying 'anything'..)
> 
> *Be proud, you've both come a long way, and she is a really great teacher for you*)


Can't agree more with both of those statements! Specially the one I bolded!

And the fact is we all have to find out what works best for us and our dogs BUT we need to come to that decision and stick with it, really working thru the options and training to give it a real chance taught properly. I know people with fantastic running contacts, but they TAUGHT running contacts (didn't just happen to have a dog mostly run thru and mostly get them from the start with no 'training') and I know others with wonderful 2on/2offs (but taught with some method and consistancy and DEFINITE criteria used at class AND at trials.). 

The people that have issues keep changing their minds on the method, or/and not being consistant with any criteria at trials cause they get so excited and just want the Q that 'good enough' starts to be ok.... until the dogs are leaping off at least one contact at most trials and 'suddenly' the handler thinks it's an issue!  

Can't wait to hear what your instructor does with HER dogs cause it seems to be working!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> The people that have issues keep changing their minds on the method...


Oh... you _certainly_ weren't talking about me, right?? :crazy: Well, as a matter of fact- yes, I did just rent Rachel Sanders' Reliable Running A-Frame DVD.  :rofl:


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Just finished disk 1. That is _by far_ the best dog training DVD I've ever watched. Excited to speak with my instructor about some running contacts...  Who needs those silly, slow 2o2o contacts anyway?


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Whoot! Congrats! Agility looks like so much fun! I would love to get Ozzy into agility eventually, but he seems to love flyball so far, so we'll stay with that for a while. 

I didn't know they had 'games' in agility! That's awesome.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks Konotashi. You know- there is a lady local here who runs with a Min Pin who is very, very fast. Those little dogs have a lot of ground to cover, but they're crazy fast through "harder" things for big dogs like the weave poles. And jumps don't seem to phase them much. I've seen a couple papillons running as well doing really good. I'm sure Ozzy could do well if he had a chance!


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

wildo said:


> Thanks Konotashi. You know- there is a lady local here who runs with a Min Pin who is very, very fast. Those little dogs have a lot of ground to cover, but they're crazy fast through "harder" things for big dogs like the weave poles. And jumps don't seem to phase them much. I've seen a couple papillons running as well doing really good. I'm sure Ozzy could do well if he had a chance!


Ozzy's super fast. He outruns most of the dogs at the dog park. LOL There's a video of him jumping the hurdles in flyball, and he's a little rocket with those. Haha. I trained him to weave through my legs, so maybe we'll get to do agility someday.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

my sister runs two papillons,,the first one is older now, and has been a good teacher for her..the second one, even tho he's had patella surgery in the past..oh my god, that little sucker runs like the hounds of heck LOL...His course times are always more than double less than standard course time..

He's giving her a wicked workout


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Konotashi said:


> Ozzy's super fast. He outruns most of the dogs at the dog park. LOL There's a video of him jumping the hurdles in flyball, and he's a little rocket with those. Haha. I trained him to weave through my legs, so maybe we'll get to do agility someday.


There are some little dogs that FLY, look at this pup!


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Congratulations!!!


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