# Opinions on this litter??



## golfbum (Jan 11, 2010)

I would like your honest thoughts on what these lines look like, and what I should expect out of the litter? We are looking at possibly getting a boy from this litter, we have met the mom and she seems great, we have also met 2 two dogs from same lines (half borther and sister) and they are great.

Sire:Nanook Mir Wachter vom Kanas - German shepherd dog

Dam:5 gen. pedigree for Nakita vom - German shepherd dog

Dont be shy! Thanks everyone!


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Personally I'm not a huge fan of the fact that they're breeding an un-titled bitch out of un-titled parents. Why do the bitch and her parents not at least have a CD or BH?


----------



## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

I agree, and where are the hip ratings?


----------



## golfbum (Jan 11, 2010)

Im new to this, we bought our first dog (GSD) a year ago, she too was from untiitled parents and she is a joy. We have worked with a trainer very hard this past year. Im sure we have not got everything right along the way but it has been a blast. Our female has completed her CGC at eight months and is a perfect companion. We take her everywhere and she is joy to have around.

This breeding is a new breeder to us but apparently has been doing it for over 20 years. Our trainer has one of her dogs and he is amazing. He is a sable which would not be my wifes first pick, but he is a joy to be around and has breezed thru some SCH training and is currently a service dog as well. I know the Grand Sire to this litter has ofa hips rated excellent and our trainer has told us that the sire to this litter has good hips (seen x-rays). The dam seems like a great dog, again our trainer has told us her hips are good, she got one of her pups from her last litter. That puppy is a neat dog (different sire). I have spent alot of time around our trainers dogs and they are amazing. I just dont know alot about looking at pedigrees...... Im not set on this litter, but not having titled parents will not stop me from getting a dog. We will love our dog and it will be part of our family but most likely will not be invovled with any dog sports other then for fun for both of us. Thanks for your comments and keep any coming that you may have! Thanks again


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

No titles or hip testing can and should be a huge factor when getting a puppy from a breeder.


----------



## golfbum (Jan 11, 2010)

I will double check on the hips for sure! Thank you. 

The title thing I personally don't get but I understand why some think it is so important. Watching videos on youtube has really led me to feeling like SCH titles are not all that it is cracked up to be, as some of the dogs that pass look like they should not! Thanks though for your thoughts, as they are always good things to keep in mind!


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

golfbum said:


> The dam seems like a great dog, again our trainer has told us her hips are good, she got one of her pups from her last litter. That puppy is a neat dog (different sire). I have spent alot of time around our trainers dogs and they are amazing.


So this female who is only a bit over two years old has already had another litter, or I understood it wrong?


----------



## golfbum (Jan 11, 2010)

I mis spoke you understood what I typed. Sorry. Same dad different mom.


----------



## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

The pedigrees on these two dogs are very impressive. Both dogs were born in 2008, so if they are OFA'd, the results may not be in yet. Not everyone does the xrays right at 24 months. Also, not too many dogs get titles before two years of age, especially if you are doing SCHH with them. The work required can be very demanding on the body and most like them to mature before they are worked too hard.

The sire line is east german and has some very well known dogs in the pedigree. The dams line is west german and also has some very impressive dogs. These dogs are just two years old and are probably being bred to see what they will produce. IF they are coming from someone that has been breeding for several years and has produced several titled dogs in their breeding program (and also has hip/elbows on those dogs done), I wouldnt hesitate to get a pup from this litter.
Titles arent the be-all end-all. They prove working ability and ability to work under pressure. It is quite possible both dogs are being trained, just have not earned a title yet due to their young age. Actually the comments for Nanook state he is a medical alert dog and trained for that.
The pups should be great working dogs, lots of toy/prey/food drive. Will probably do fine in any venue/sport. Probably get the blanket back/solid black/sable colors.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Maybe they should let the dogs mature before breeding them...at least wait til the OFA's are produced.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

golfbum said:


> Watching videos on youtube has really led me to feeling like SCH titles are not all that it is cracked up to be, as some of the dogs that pass look like they should not!


Which makes you wonder about a dog that either can't get one, or their owners don't care enough to work them enough to get one. 

Not every breeding dog needs to have a SchH title, but I want to see some indication that the owner has worked the dog enough to earn _something_-- SAR, agility, obedience. Something to show that the owner cares enough to work the dog and isn't just producing puppies. Something to show that the dog is trainable and has a sound temperament in different situations and doesn't crack under the pressure of a agility match or obedience trial. Without some sort of title, you have no way of knowing this. 

The fact that neither the sire, nor the dam, nor either of the dam's parents have so much as a CD or BH is concerning to me.


----------



## golfbum (Jan 11, 2010)

So I have talked to trainer and breeder a little more and found out a little more info. The males hips are cleared through OFA and are labeled as good, I found them on the OFA website, they were tested right at 24 months. The moms I could not find, so I asked about them and the trainer (who I trust) said they just got tested and looked great. She said she would get me a copy of the films so I could see them. The male is working now as a Service Dog for gentleman with PTSD after serving in Iraq. I have spent some time with the mom and she is a wonderful dog and mother. My wife and I have met the litter, and my wife is helping with doing stimulations and such with the different puppies. I guess they are weighed, held in several positions, they run a Q-tip over the paws, and then they are placed on some ice for a few seconds then comforted and held before being put back with mom. The trainer is taking us up in a week or so to meet the dad and grandsire of the litter. I guess they will be tested and put through different stimulations each week. The litter has 7 puppies.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

golfbum said:


> The moms I could not find, so I asked about them and the trainer (who I trust) said they just got tested and looked great. She said she would get me a copy of the films so I could see them.


Golfbum, you may be able to look at a dog's X-ray films and tell if they have fair, good, excellent, or poor hips, but to me it just looks like a blob. For some reason I came across this a couple of times in my breeder search. 

Me: "I couldn't find this dog's hips on the OFA website, did she get certified through PennHip? 

Breeder: "No. . . I had them X-rayed but I haven't sent them in. They look good, though. I can show them to you if you like." 

Me: "No thanks."

My question is, if the hips look good, why wouldn't you have them cleared if you plan to breed the animal? It doesn't make sense to me. This is just my opinion, but if someone went to the trouble and expense of having a dog's hips X-rayed (and the dog has to be sedated to be X-rayed, it's not a simple procedure like it is for humans) _why_ wouldn't you send them in for certification. Again, this is just me, but it makes me think they saw something on the films they didn't like, so they decided not to pay for OFA to look at it. Your average puppy buyer doesn't know a hip X-ray from a Rorschach test, so offering to show me the films wins no points at all.


----------



## golfbum (Jan 11, 2010)

Emoore,

I am under the impression that they will be sent in to OFA..... I know they just did the male a few months ago. Im not sure why they have yet to send them to OFA but I agree with you, if they are good why would they not. I however think that has just not happened yet but is in the works. I would have my vet look at them if I had any concerns.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I have to say that i like the pedigree of the dogs (from my very, very, very limited knowledge) but it seem like at the end you need to always be defending the breeder. Unless other things are into consideration, like "pup is free", there are absolutely no other breeders in the area" or something like that, I'd pass on the breeder. Not necessarily on the dogs... but on the breeder.


----------

