# Chinese Medicine-Hot and Cold foods info needed



## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

I took Phoenix to a holistic/homeopathic vet specializing in Chinese/Eastern medicine. I mainly went for a chiropractic appt. because Phoenix has been having back issues and my vet recommended Dr. Scerba in Halfmoon, NY.

We had our appt. this morning for a consultation and for chiro care. During our consult, the vet told me that Phoenix is a "hot" dog based in Fire fed by wood. She recommended I change his diet and remove "hot" foods from his diet. She gave me a few protiens to feed him, but when I looked up online about the hot and cold foods, I noticed duck, which she told me to not feed, was actually a cold food. I have ordered "Four Paws, Five Directions: A Guide to Chinese Medicine for Cats and Dogs" from Amazon, but it's gonna take a week or two to get to me.

I feed a kibble based diet (Acana Grasslands and TOTW Pacific Stream) and she told me to try to eliminate the kibble it and if I can't do a home cooked diet, to switch to canned and look for canned foods that contained beef, fish (except salmon as it's a hot food), and turkey. No chicken, salmon, lamb or venison. I am limited to no grains as Phoenix is allergic to them. Of course, the switch needs to be done gradually.

Guess what I'm asking, is anyone following this kind of a diet (hot/cold)? If so, do they have a "hot" dog and again, if so, what are they feeding? In addition to the food, I'm giving him a probiotic, Nupro Joint, salmon oil and Vit. E oil. Right now, my work/life situation does not lend me to doing a homecooked diet( I barely have time to cook for myself) and raw is out at this point.

Since doing acupuncture and chiro w/ Dakota I am fascinated w/ the Eastern medicine. I just never fully embraced it. Anyhow, any and all info is greatly appreciated.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

GSDs typically run "hot" and are fire dogs, from what I'm told. My Max falls into that category too. My problem is that Max is intolerant of all the foods that would help him.

Pork is a neutral protein and is also a good choice, but one of my holistic vets said that she has found that lots of GSDs cannot tolerate pork (Max can't, sigh).

I don't know about the individual foods, but perhaps this is interesting to you:
http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/neuro/courses/vem5208/vem5208.html
http://www.afn.org/~afn26752/Sasha/Clemmons_Diet.ppt


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I recommend this book: http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=cdn153

It has lists of food and their properties and is very helpful for figuring out what ingredients will work (or won't work) for you dog. 

If you can start working in raw into the diet I would really recommend it. Cooked foods are hot (not surprisingly). 

Basu was a hot dog (lol!) and Chama was too. Duck is a cooling food. Bravo makes a raw duck grind that I used very successfully for Chama: http://www.k9rawdiet.com/Bravo-Ground-Duck-pr-36.html

Tofu is also a cooling food as are raw veggies, especially leafy green veggies (which I used to puree and add to the dogs' foods).

Ha, just found this awesome chart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.holisticonline.com/ayurveda/ayv-food-Vegetables-classification.htm

If you look above the veggie chart you'll see links to other types of food.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Ruth, what do you think? Their whole entire meat chart says that all meats are "Heating."

http://www.holisticonline.com/ayurveda/ayv-food-classification.htm

I find this fascinating. Ruth, you find good sites!!

I am wondering about ALL meats listed being hot though. I guess maybe duck could be cooling, it isn't listed.... but... hmm.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

Ruth and Lisa

Thanks for the info and links.

Had thought raw would not be an option, but seeing the premade raw, I might be able to add that to his diet. 

Phoenix actually tolerates pork, so I'm thinking I'm ok in that area. He also LOVES raw veggies and fruits, so I know I can add those to his diet on a regular basis, but again, I suck at getting to the grocery store on a regular basis w/ my schedule. Guess it's time to suck it up and make time.

This looks to be a heck of a learning process for me.

Hey Ruth, do you find that dogs readily eat uncooked tofu? The stuff grosses me out, but if Phoenix is willing to eat it...


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Yup.. EVERY meat but duck is heating/hot.

http://www.sacu.org/food.html


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Maybe that all cooked foods are warming? That is an Ayurveda classification, I wonder what the differences are with TCM. They do however, have a five element system like TCM, although with some differences:
http://www.holisticonline.com/ayurveda/ayv-basis-five-great-elements.htm
I've tried to learn their Tri-Dosha, but ran out of time.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

Patti, that's an interesting site. I've been reading where beef is considered neutral and on that chart, and the one Ruth had, indicated it was hot. The vet is recommending I add beef to his diet, if Phoenix can tolerate it. He cannot tolerate processed beef in the kibble, it affects his allergies.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfYup.. EVERY meat but duck is heating/hot.
> 
> http://www.sacu.org/food.html


That's not true - pork is neutral (almost cooling), and there are some others, I just can't find my list....


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Hmmm... Still, it looks like even fish is heating/hot. If a dog can tolerate pork maybe that's an option. If not.. gosh, duck sure is costly! But yes, the raw premades do come in duck. For someone able to afford that, it might be a great option for a hot dog.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I was looking into this for Athena's weak nerve issues.After the new year I may check out the holistic vet we have to try it out on her.I'll be keeping my eyes on this to learn more about it.
Good Luck


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

4Paws, 5Directions:

Cooling Proteins (most cooling to least): Clam, Duck, Egg, Pork

Neutral Proteins (coolest to warmest): Beef, Beef Liver, Rabbit, Chicken Gizzard, Sardine

Warming Proteins (warmest to hottest, if I read the chard right) ): Tuna, Turkey, Chicken, Salmon, Chicken Liver, Lamb, Shrimp, Venison, Trout

My "hot" dog is allergic to all the cooling and neutral foods, and my "cold" dog is allergic to all the warming foods. I can't win....


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I read a post about this on a RAW cat forum. what exactly does Hot/cold mean? Where is a book i could find about it?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

The hot and cold refers to the thermal nature of food, though foods have other properties that may also need to be balanced. The "thermal nature of a food is described by the way you feel after you have eaten it". For example, cooling foods will help decrease internal inflammation and cool the body, while warming foods aid circulation and digestion.

The book linked by Ruth above is a great book to have.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

The 4 Paw, 5 Directions book is an excellent one. It's all about Chinese medicine for dogs. 

Beef is considered neutral but I believe that the type of heating process alters it and can therefore make it a warming food. I think in Ayurveda cooked foods are all considered warming and that is different than Chinese medicine.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Thank Lisa and Ruth! I have a growing list of books that I want. LOL


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## mgchad54 (Apr 7, 2010)

*Hot & Cold Meats*

Feeding our GSD's raw can be quite expensive, but if you are inclined to do so, Nature's Variety has a wide selection of foods. My 2 sheps are also "hot" (must be a shepherd thing). The cool meats are: rabbit, duck, turkey, beef, & chicken Avoid salmon & lamb. One of my sheps has several allergies, as well. I feed raw in the AM, then Nature's Variety Instinct kibble (grain-free) with chicken necks in PM. I regulate weight with the kibble. The cheapest way to feed large dogs like ours is to have your store special-order the 2# chubs. We just left the holistic vet today & I'm grappling with some new issues. She prefers that my boy be on duck or rabbit, which I can't get in the chubs, making the price prohibitive. Sigh.


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