# Does anyone know of these DDR Breeders?



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

Hi everybody. I'm a newbie to this forum. I'm a former owner of a 96 Bi-Color male GSD, and am about to "get back in the game", so to speak. I plan on getting a male DDR GSD and have narrowed it to the following 4 breeders with my question being: Has anyone had experience with any of them, or knows of anyone who has purchased from them?

German Shepherd Breeder | Puppies For Sale | Vom Banach K9 | Vom Banach K9
Weberhaus German Shepherds - Home
Camelot German Shepherds
Debut Shepherds

Any knowledge / information on these breeders would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much.


----------



## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

Sent PM.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Weberhaus has some very nice dogs. If I were to go to any of the ones listed above for a pup, it would be Malinda's kennel.


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

Thank you! I really appreciate the information because, obviously, the decision is so important. If you were not to go to any of the ones I listed, is there a working lines breeder you would go to for a pup? Thanks.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

GShedderguy said:


> Thank you! I really appreciate the information because, obviously, the decision is so important. If you were not to go to any of the ones I listed, is there a working lines breeder you would go to for a pup? Thanks.


I look at pairings over breeders specifically. But I do have experience with Wildhaus, Zu Treuen Handen, and Auf der Marquis(Auf der Marquis has used studs from Weberhaus with some excellent results in parings.) As far as DDR goes, I wouldn't go with a DDR breeding. I prefer Czech/WG blending which seems to balance nicely. So my recommendations aren't relevant to what you are asking, if DDR is your focus.


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

Actually, I think your recommendations and information are perfectly relevant for me. Thanks! Another person, who, like you, has also given me invaluable advice, said exactly the same thing. He wouldn't go DDR; but, rather, WG/Czech as well. His reasons actually made sense for what I want in a GSD. Just in the interests of "more information is never a bad thing", why do you prefer the mix of WG/Czech working lines over the DDR? You referenced "balance". Do you mean in terms of temperament, drive, etc?

I think looking at pairings, rather than breeders, makes a lot of sense. After all, the pairings are really the whole point OF breeding. That does mean, I suppose, a lot of in depth conversations with the breeder(s) and a possible long wait for the pairing you want.

Thanks again. You've been extremely helpful.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm also in the skip the DDR fad and get a balanced WG/Czech dog. The right balance brings in prey and the right amount of aggression. 

Super nice litter on the ground right now with vom Evolution. It's a repeat breeding. 








Vom Evolution Kennels


I breed GSD with excellent drives and temperaments. My dogs compete in Schutzhund sport and are... 153 Dobson Rd, Sweet Valley, PA, US 18656




www.facebook.com


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

GShedderguy said:


> Actually, I think your recommendations and information are perfectly relevant for me. Thanks! Another person, who, like you, has also given me invaluable advice, said exactly the same thing. He wouldn't go DDR; but, rather, WG/Czech as well. His reasons actually made sense for what I want in a GSD. Just in the interests of "more information is never a bad thing", why do you prefer the mix of WG/Czech working lines over the DDR? You referenced "balance". Do you mean in terms of temperament, drive, etc?
> 
> I think looking at pairings, rather than breeders, makes a lot of sense. After all, the pairings are really the whole point OF breeding. That does mean, I suppose, a lot of in depth conversations with the breeder(s) and a possible long wait for the pairing you want.
> 
> Thanks again. You've been extremely helpful.


Czech dogs tend to often have some suspicion and be a bit sharper than what I want, so adding some WG helps reduce that. Again, it depends on the pedigree pairing.
I like a higher threshold thinker, but many want a doer and not so much a thinker. I see the Czechs being thinking or over thinking sometimes, that is why they are so aware of their surroundings. Not that they bark or react over nothing, but are multi-tasking and keeping one eye on the world around and not focusing on what they should be in the moment(as in tracking). I like that in my dogs, but not to the extreme of losing focus.
I could be wrong, but that is my observation with my own dogs and seeing other dogs at training.

DDRs aren't always high drive, though paired with a Czech may bring a nice balance. Bone and athleticism is also to be considered. I like bone but not so heavy the athleticism is lost.


----------



## Elisabeth Ann Parent (Dec 1, 2016)

I have a 4 year old out of Malinda's kennel (Weberhaus). She trains in IGP and is our companion.

We live in an apartment with lots of people and strange dogs. She is VERY social with both.

She has tones of drive for work but can chill in the apartment with my senior dog and cat as well. Super happy dog.

Literally best of both worlds.


----------



## Elisabeth Ann Parent (Dec 1, 2016)

onyx'girl said:


> Czech dogs tend to often have some suspicion and be a bit sharper than what I want, so adding some WG helps reduce that. Again, it depends on the pedigree pairing.
> I like a higher threshold thinker, but many want a doer and not so much a thinker. I see the Czechs being thinking or over thinking sometimes, that is why they are so aware of their surroundings. Not that they bark or react over nothing, but are multi-tasking and keeping one eye on the world around and not focusing on what they should be in the moment(as in tracking). I like that in my dogs, but not to the extreme of losing focus.
> I could be wrong, but that is my observation with my own dogs and seeing other dogs at training.
> 
> DDRs aren't always high drive, though paired with a Czech may bring a nice balance. Bone and athleticism is also to be considered. I like bone but not so heavy the athleticism is lost.


This is actually the opposite of my experience with my czech girls. Especially my full czech girl and the dogs I know out of these lines.

What czech lines have you seen if you know. I'd be curious to look at pedigrees. My girls are almost identical pedigrees on the dam side and I know the maternal line is very strong so I see a lot of similarities in my girls.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Elisabeth Ann Parent said:


> This is actually the opposite of my experience with my czech girls. Especially my full czech girl and the dogs I know out of these lines.
> 
> What czech lines have you seen if you know. I'd be curious to look at pedigrees. My girls are almost identical pedigrees on the dam side and I know the maternal line is very strong so I see a lot of similarities in my girls.


Karlo was mostly who I was referring to. And his son Guinness tends to be similar. Higher in threshold could also come from the motherline on each pairing. One other thing, boys....vs girls! Females are a bit more serious, boys can be duhs.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

The Czech lines I see are usually medium to high in prey drive, sharp, and independent. The west German dogs are similar in drive but usually higher, more handler oriented, more social. The ddr dogs I’ve met are usually medium to low drive, sharp, and independent. My dog Cion is mostly a mix of Czech and west german.


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

Interesting. The mix does sound appealing. Heck, who doesn't want a dog aware of his surroundings? I do want a relatively high drive. I could be wrong, but I felt my GSD's drive is what made him so trainable; and, to me among the many joys of GSD ownership is the lifetime of training and their eagerness to train. I've been thinking about what you posted earlier in terms of looking at pairings rather than breeders. That's makes so much sense, but it's such a complete change from what I'd been looking at that I think it's going to take longer than I had planned to get my pup. Thanks.


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

All this information is just what I wanted and needed; and I will add Vom Evolution to my research. You're the 3rd person who's mentioned a mix of WG/Czech to me, and frankly the balance is hard to argue against. Thanks.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

GShedderguy said:


> Interesting. The mix does sound appealing. Heck, who doesn't want a dog aware of his surroundings? *I do want a relatively high drive*. I could be wrong, but I felt my GSD's drive is what made him so trainable; and, to me among the many joys of GSD ownership is the lifetime of training and their eagerness to train. I've been thinking about what you posted earlier in terms of looking at pairings rather than breeders. That's makes so much sense, but it's such a complete change from what I'd been looking at that I think it's going to take longer than I had planned to get my pup. Thanks.


think of police k9’s, military dogs, high titled sport dogs - if that’s high drive, is that what you’re looking for? or do you consider them _extra_ high?
you say you could be wrong… to me that says you probably aren’t looking for high drive, or haven’t been around many.
please elaborate…


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

Thank you. Is she DDR, Czech, mix of lines?


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

@GShedderguy You’ve essentially been double posting. Please hit “Reply” at the bottom of the post you’re responding to, wait for the quoted text to appear in the reply box and type your response underneath. if that’s not working for you, you can tag the member by using the @ symbol and typing their username.


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

My 96lb GSD would greet me at the door, then run for the tennis ball. He'd do anything to get the ball thrown and to fetch it, and didn't get tired of it. I watched TV at night, one eye was on the Tube, while throwing it to him in the house. If I told him to go to bed, he'd take the ball, chew it a couple of times, then cup his paw, and accurately fling it to me whereupon we played ground "catch" as I would send it back to him. After that, he'd bring me the pull rope. That was a typical day; and he loved to train which we'd do every day as well, whether it was in a field or on busy city streets with all sorts of distractions. He had no protection training, although he did protect me on the one occasion some idiot came after me, and no Schutzhund training; and, I don't plan on doing that with this one.


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

Fodder said:


> think of police k9’s, military dogs, high titled sport dogs - if that’s high drive, is that what you’re looking for? or do you consider them _extra_ high?
> you say you could be wrong… to me that says you probably aren’t looking for high drive, or haven’t been around many.
> please elaborate…


You're absolutely right. I should not have characterized the level of prey drive I want given my admitted lack of expertise on the subject. It was a dumb thing to do, embarrassing, and I do apologize for that. Perhaps, what follows even further reveals my ignorance on the subject, but I've already made a fool of myself so I can't damage my credibility in this forum any further; so, here goes: 

What I should have said, is that I want a GSD whose behavior mirrored, or at least came close to, my buddy whose picture is under my username: He would greet me at the door, then run for the tennis ball. He'd do anything to get the ball thrown and to fetch it, and didn't get tired of it. He loved to train which we'd do every day, whether it was in a field or on busy city streets with all sorts of distractions. He had no protection training, although he did protect me on the one occasion some idiot came after me, and no Schutzhund training; and, I don't plan on doing that with this one. I watched TV at night, one eye was on the Tube, while throwing it to him in the house. When I finally told him told him to go to bed, he'd take the ball, chew it a couple of times, then cup his paw, and accurately fling it to me; whereupon, we played ground "catch" as I would roll it back to him. After that, he'd bring me the pull rope and we'd play "tug of war". That was a typical night. 

I'm sure what I described above you wouldn't even characterize as "prey drive"; but, the reason why I want a dog whose behavior is similar is because, again, probably due to my ignorance on the subject matter, I believe his "makeup" made him easy to train, eager to learn; and, I believe that training, a life long commitment, is one of the joys of owning a GSD.


----------



## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

You're looking for a companion. We were looking for the same thing. To get more specific we asked our breeder for medium drives, bidable, with an off switch, solid nerves and clear headed.

This article helps explain each of our asks.



Temperament


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

drparker151 said:


> You're looking for a companion. We were looking for the same thing. To get more specific we asked our breeder for medium drives, bidable, with and off switch, solid nerves and clear headed.
> 
> This article helps explain each of our asks.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Given your updated description of what you want - I'm just going to add to my recommendation that the Evolution litter I suggested is a LOT of dog. a LOT. I love them. Anyone in sport will appreciate what they are but they could be to much dog for just a pet. Look at them but be aware these are high drive dogs with aggression and possession.


----------



## ldmpku (Jul 5, 2021)

Hi Jax08, I have been looking for a gsd puppy recently too. I talked to both Jennifer from vom DeRossi and Nikki from vom Evolution. I was more into Nikki’s new litter but I’ll be a first gsd owner. Jennifer told me that her puppy this time is a quite balanced and a better fit for newbie. After reading your post, can you talk more about “a lot” dog from Nikki. Thank you!

I have a golden and I do target for BH or even IGP1 though no idea where to start yet but Step by step.


Jax08 said:


> Given your updated description of what you want - I'm just going to add to my recommendation that the Evolution litter I suggested is a LOT of dog. a LOT. I love them. Anyone in sport will appreciate what they are but they could be to much dog for just a pet. Look at them but be aware these are high drive dogs with aggression and possession.


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

Jax08 said:


> Given your updated description of what you want - I'm just going to add to my recommendation that the Evolution litter I suggested is a LOT of dog. a LOT. I love them. Anyone in sport will appreciate what they are but they could be to much dog for just a pet. Look at them but be aware these are high drive dogs with aggression and possession.


This is the input I need and want. Thank you. It's good to know of a trusted / recommended breeder, but, it's so much more valuable to hear of the hands on experience with their dogs. I need to make an informed decision, so the more advice and info I get the better. I took a preliminary look at the Evolution site. Very impressive. I obviously would need to have a long talk with her about whether her dogs were a match for me. Thank you very much for this; and, of course, any more advice and info you have, please give it to me!


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ldmpku said:


> Hi Jax08, I have been looking for a gsd puppy recently too. I talked to both Jennifer from vom DeRossi and Nikki from vom Evolution. I was more into Nikki’s new litter but I’ll be a first gsd owner. Jennifer told me that her puppy this time is a quite balanced and a better fit for newbie. After reading your post, can you talk more about “a lot” dog from Nikki. Thank you!
> 
> I have a golden and I do target for BH or even IGP1 though no idea where to start yet but Step by step.


First - Since you want a sport dog - what I posted to the OP is not relevant to you. You should talk to the breeders and meet the dogs if possible. 

I like Jen's dogs. Not sure what she's breeding for working lines right now. 

I'm not sure what you want to hear regarding the other litter. If I was ready for a puppy, I would look at this litter. I love the sire, who I've trained with on multiple occasions, and I like the dam. They are strong dogs with high drives, a good level of aggression and prey. If you are committed to training and have a good support system, a dog from this litter will take you wherever you want to go in the sport. I'm sure Nikki can choose a puppy from the litter that would be most suitable for a 1st time sport handler and I'm also sure that you can succeed in this sport with a puppy from this litter. I think I'm wrong on the repeat breeding though. I'm thinking of Oxa's last breeding with another male. But I wouldn't expect any less dogs with Dagger as the sire. In fact, I would probably like this litter better because I've trained with Dagger and know how in to his handler he is while still be a hard dog. There is a genetic component to dogs that WANT to work FOR their handler and Dagger has that. 

I don't want to detract from the OP's thread so I'm just going to reiterate to talk to the breeders on your needs and wants.


----------



## ldmpku (Jul 5, 2021)

Thanks for your detailed response. And you are right on talking more with the breeders and also looking for a whole supporting(training) system.


Jax08 said:


> First - Since you want a sport dog - what I posted to the OP is not relevant to you. You should talk to the breeders and meet the dogs if possible.
> 
> I like Jen's dogs. Not sure what she's breeding for working lines right now.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

GShedderguy said:


> I'm sure what I described above you wouldn't even characterize as "prey drive"; but, the reason why I want a dog whose behavior is similar is because, again, probably due to my ignorance on the subject matter, I believe his "makeup" made him easy to train, eager to learn; and, I believe that training, a life long commitment, is one of the joys of owning a GSD.


it’s unclear if you’ve opened up your preferences as the thread has progressed, but DDR dogs aren’t exactly known for their trainability (ease, eagerness), and it seems that’s pretty important to you.


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

I have indeed opened up my preferences. The last few days have been been educational, as they say, and frankly, important because you're right, I value "trainability". I will always welcome information and advice because I know I don't know everything, or should I say, much of anything. I loved that trait in my GSD, and want that same eagerness, if possible, in my next one. It seems that the consensus of those kind enough to respond to my post, is that I should strongly consider a "blend" of WG/Czech with the caveat, that they are "a lot of dog".


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I always encourage people to go to clubs and meet dogs, owners and trainers. Talk to them about living with and training their dogs.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

GShedderguy said:


> I have indeed opened up my preferences. The last few days have been been educational, as they say, and frankly, important because you're right, I value "trainability". I will always welcome information and advice because I know I don't know everything, or should I say, much of anything. I loved that trait in my GSD, and want that same eagerness, if possible, in my next one. It seems that the consensus of those kind enough to respond to my post, is that I should strongly consider a "blend" of WG/Czech with the caveat, that they are "a lot of dog".


They aren’t always a lot of dog. Different breedings and different combinations give you different things. You can find more manageable versions from different breedings that are capable of doing what you want.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GShedderguy said:


> It seems that the consensus of those kind enough to respond to my post, is that I should strongly consider a "blend" of WG/Czech with the caveat, that they are "a lot of dog".


That's not what I said. I said that particular litter was. I have two WG/Czech dogs. One would be a lot for a pet home. The other would be perfect. I would take 10 more of him any day. 

What has been said, multiple times in multiple threads, is talk to the breeders. Go to clubs and meet dogs. A dog that is to much for me could be perfect for you. A dog that has traits that I hate could be perfect for you. The key to all this is getting the right puppy for YOU, from the right litter. So contact clubs and breeders and go meet dogs.


----------



## GShedderguy (Dec 9, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> They aren’t always a lot of dog. Different breedings and different combinations give you different things. You can find more manageable versions from different breedings that are capable of doing what you want.


Thanks Bearshandler.


----------

