# Show line V. Working line?



## tank101 (Mar 30, 2012)

This isn't to start any Drama(I dont know if it will but I will put that there ). I am starting to do a lot more research and I was wondering what differences there is between the working line and the show line? I know in labs there is a big difference(by features,and while all labs are very active field labs seem to have a higher prey drive,and more crazy,lol), is it the same with GSD'S? What are the differences. I am really active, love hiking,going to the beach and just being outside. I also like my lazy Saturdays,lol(I do get out and walk but I like to sit on the couch and do nothing for most of the day ) Would that be okay for working line and or show lines? Sorry if I sound like an idiot I am still learning 



Sorry if this has been talked about before.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

opcorn:
:lurking:


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

It's all about what their purpose is

Working lines are bred for working, they are normally meant for police dogs, herding, service dogs, etc

Show lines are bred for showing, so they need to be pretty and good temperament 

They're all dogs, and all need the same level of care and commitment. There are easy going working lines, and high energy show lines, it all comes down to the breeding and actual dog. Look at what you want and try and find a breeder that matches your vision of what you want your dog to be


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

paddyd said:


> opcorn:
> :lurking:


lol!


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## tank101 (Mar 30, 2012)

PaddyD said:


> opcorn:
> :lurking:


I', guessing since you put that I should ask for it to be shut down? I just wanted to know if there was a difference between the two. Think you shade. I know they are dogs and all need to the same amount of exercise I just didn't know if there was a feature difference or what.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

tank101 said:


> I', guessing since you put that I should ask for it to be shut down? I just wanted to know if there was a difference between the two. Think you shade. I know they are dogs and all need to the same amount of exercise I just didn't know if there was a feature difference or what.


Not at all. Keep it open and see what you can learn.
Sometimes topics like this bring out very interesting prejudices and sometimes they are useful. I am just watching to see which way it goes. Sorry, I don't have anything useful to contribute.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

tank101 said:


> I', guessing since you put that I should ask for it to be shut down? I just wanted to know if there was a difference between the two. Think you shade. I know they are dogs and all need to the same amount of exercise I just didn't know if there was a feature difference or what.


I think Paddy is referring to the fact that everyone has their opinions and favourites 

Feature difference? As in appearance?


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## tank101 (Mar 30, 2012)

Shade said:


> I think Paddy is referring to the fact that everyone has their opinions and favourites
> 
> Feature difference? As in appearance?


Yes, I just dont want this turned into a drama thread.. I get enough of that at school.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

tank101 said:


> Yes, I just dont want this turned into a drama thread.. I get enough of that at school.


Ah, I'm no expert but the colouring is the biggest thing I notice. Delgado's from working lines and he's a bicolour which you don't see in show lines 

The other major thing is the frame, show lines have a much more sloped back then working lines. 

I'm sure others more experienced will chime in


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

A well bred show line can work and a well bred working line can settle in the house. And is each show line or working line litter there are dogs that are more driven, really want to be doing something and others that are more laid back.

My GSD, Eli, was working lines and he loved hiking, swimming and would go all day, but for two years his "job" was to be my companion as I went through cancer. He didn't get much hard physical work but was content to stay by my side.

Benny is showline/ workingline cross and is happy to work a lot on my days off ( hiking, swimming, tracking) but on my work days settles for just a 3 mile walk in the morning.

I think it depends more on the individual dog than whether they are show line or working line


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree with Debbie. And what you want to do with your pup may play into what lines you choose. I see many people just wanting that companion, but then deciding to get into a sport....then the dog they chose isn't one that will enjoy it. For that reason, go to any and every venue possible, and watch the dogs of different lines enjoying sportwork(IPO, Agility, Flyball, Herding, Competitive obedience/show, etc) and see if any of this excites you. Ask about the dogs that are participating and who the breeders are.
You can then make a better decision on what you will spend the next decade with.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Abby is ASL, no sloping back.
<<---


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

PaddyD said:


> Abby is ASL, no sloping back.
> <<---


I was under the impression the OP was asking for more of a generalization, most SL do have more severe slopes then WL, regardless of American or German


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Shade said:


> I was under the impression the OP was asking for more of a generalization, most SL do have more severe slopes then WL, regardless of American or German


If it is for the purpose of purchasing a puppy we don't buy generalizations, we buy individuals. I was trying to point out that it is possible to get an ASL without a sloping back. GSLs tend to have rounded backs. ASL tend to have straight backs that get their slope from angulation. JMHO


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

PaddyD said:


> If it is for the purpose of purchasing a puppy we don't buy generalizations, we buy individuals. I was trying to point out that it is possible to get an ASL without a sloping back. GSLs tend to have rounded backs. ASL tend to have straight backs that get their slope from angulation. JMHO


The only two GSD that I personally know are both ASL and severely angulated. I'm not trying to put down anyone or any dog, just explaining my stance based on my personal experience, when I was looking I looked at dogs in Canada, US, and Germany.

As I stated before, it's the dog not the line that is the important thing to look at


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

@the OP......Good, sound, CORRECT dogs are born from all bloodlines.
There are good and bad examples of the breed in ALL bloodlines, just as there is good and bad advice regarding them....
Know what you want from *your* dog, be it personality, drives, and yes...even "looks"......learn to ignore what others "think" you should like or want, or what "they" like or dislike.......after all, it will be *your* dog for the many years to come.

AFTER you decide what exactly *you* are wanting....research the breeders that "breed" what you are looking for.
Your breeder "should" match you with the right puppy, so that a happy "match" is made.
However;....*before* you decide to take that first "big & important" step....*research* the breed itself. *Know what *exactly* this breed is and is supposed to be.* 
Make sure that you understand this before you make that decision.......choosing to have a GSD puppy join your life, because you like how it looks....isn't the right reason to own one.
JMHO


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> *The only two GSD that I personally know* are both ASL and severely angulated. I'm not trying to put down anyone or any dog, just explaining my stance based on my personal experience, when I was looking I looked at dogs in Canada, US, and Germany.
> 
> As I stated before, it's the dog not the line that is the important thing to look at


If you only know_ two_ GSD's how can you make an assessment? I personally can't dis any line, because that would be bias.... I would hope the OP will go out into the training venues and see for themselves the differences and decide which will best suit them.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

some angulated, some roached, some straight.



Shade said:


> Ah, I'm no expert but the colouring is the biggest thing I notice. Delgado's from working lines and he's a bicolour which you don't see in show lines
> 
> >>>> The other major thing is the frame, show lines have a much more sloped back then working lines. <<<<
> 
> I'm sure others more experienced will chime in


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you might want to start with the line because
that will give you some idea of the potential type
of dog you'll have in the future. 



Shade said:


> The only two GSD that I personally know are both ASL and severely angulated. I'm not trying to put down anyone or any dog, just explaining my stance based on my personal experience, when I was looking I looked at dogs in Canada, US, and Germany.
> 
> As I stated before,
> 
> >>>> it's the dog not the line that is the important thing to look at<<<<


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> you might want to start with the line because
> that will give you some idea of the potential type
> of dog you'll have in the future.


Of course it's important, but personally it's not the very first thing I look at. I see the dog first, then the pedigree


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

(Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )

This is a basic overview. There are good dogs in all lines. You need to decide what best fits your life style. Good luck with your research.

Rob


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

robk said:


> (Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )
> 
> This is a basic overview. There are good dogs in all lines. You need to decide what best fits your life style. Good luck with your research.
> 
> Rob


I read this when I was on my search and was actually looking for it again to quote but couldn't find it, thanks!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

how do you see the inside of the dog?



doggiedad said:


> you might want to start with the line because
> that will give you some idea of the potential type
> of dog you'll have in the future.





Shade said:


> Of course it's important, but personally it's not the very first thing I look at. I see the dog first, then the pedigree


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> opcorn:
> :lurking:



:toasting:

I wish I could chime in, but I don't know what line my dog is from. I wish I did because I would choose her all over again I think she has both in her from what I am reading in descriptions/traits


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I have GSDs from ASL, WGSL and WL here in the house. All are good companions and settle inside. None of them want an entire life of laying about. They all have plenty of energy and brains that do best with an active outlet! We are a busy lot with training, or tracking, or swimming or biking, etc. The car is always loaded with dog gear so,we can get out and let them do things they really enjoy. I find they are most fulfilled with these fun yet purposeful activities.

Took a WGSL to some fun obedience training today. Introduced one of the ASL dogs to ducks after that. The WL boy loves to track and will be over joyed if I get up and get him one put in the field tomorrow. Another of the WGSL dogs has two therapy dog visits this week. They are all good pets but really thrive with things to do. It is in them!


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## GizmoGSD (Jul 18, 2011)

i had a west working GSD , he was crazy as **** ! i liked the way working line was looking but i have to admit that dog had way to much ''drive'' for me... zooming in the house all the time like crazy , was shaking out of energy just by seeing a ball in my hands ... take a walk was horrible if a squirrel was passing by ... good dog ! dont get me wrong ! but way to drive for me ! ...

so for my second gsd , a breeder i know bred his black DDR male with a show line female a few time in the past and it ended to be more 'house' dog ... protective but more patato couch... i have one of these dog since 1 year , and i have nothing to complain about ! good energy when i start him off ! good obey also . but can spend lot of time with me listening to some films !

anyway its all bout what you do or planning to do with the dog like other said ...


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## sabledog (Mar 13, 2012)

Just out of complete curiosity...

Are there any show line of show/working cross dogs that are PSDs or MWDs? I can't say I know of any.


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## tank101 (Mar 30, 2012)

Thanks for explaining the differences. I dont choose a dog just because of "looks". I do look at personality ect.. I've never been to a breeder before I have only had rescue dogs, so this is all very new to me. I do know what to look for a breeder like health testing, doing some kind of venue ect... it is just the *lines* I was un-sure about. I will read that link and see if it helps. I really like Sables(I know that is going off coloring but I DO like any coloring but the sable just *pops* out and I love it ) Are they more from the working line? all the dog shows I have seen on TV all the show GSD's are only black/reds. 


For the venues. Is there even one around central Illinois!!?? Where i live it is completely surrounded by cornfields(no joke) and there isn't much around here. I can't drive either so my parents have to lug me around places so even if I could get them to take me too a show it would have to be close.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Like many things, I think most people make the show line/working line decision for reasons of the heart and then justify it with reasons from the head. . .


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

I have had showlines and now I have a workingline. I find the biggest difference is the overall health and sturdiness of my workingline. My showline dogs were not as sturdy or a strong as my workingline. He seems to have thicker bones, a more compact structure, his strength is amazing, and he just seems to have such robust health. My showlines were healthy, but they just seemed more fragile. My workingline has way more energy too, yet he will settle down and relax if that's what I want.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Emoore said:


> Like many things, I think most people make the show line/working line decision for reasons of the heart and then justify it with reasons from the head. . .



That how I make most of my decision, including marrying my husband and 35 years later don't regret it!
My experience says when head and heart disagree go with the heart!


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

@ Heart vs Head...IMO...a good breeder should use both....and add a little "gut instinct" to top it off.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Find a breeder that raises dogs that do what you are looking to do with your dog. SchH, go to a breeder whose lines are sport dogs. PP/MIL/PSD, test a green adult or get a pup from a PSD breeder. 

I wouldn't recommend a high drive WL puppy as a family pet for most families, especially with young kids.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

robinhuerta said:


> @ Heart vs Head...IMO...a good breeder should use both....and add a little "gut instinct" to top it off.


Oh yeah, I'm not talking about breeding decisions. . . . more about why we are the kind of "dog people" we are. 

For example, I can talk about nerve and drive to work and desire to work with one person to accomplish a task until I'm blue in the face, but let's be real: I had just lost a young sable WL male that I loved dearly, and my heart was demanding another. Everything else is just rationalization. 

Same thing with people who love show lines. They can talk about balance and structure and the ideal GSD, but if you dig a little I'd bet the SL dog touched their heart in some way, and everything else is rationalization. 

Very few of us make the decision about the animal that's going to sleep in our bedroom for the next 15 years with just a checklist.


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## TimberGSD2 (Nov 8, 2011)

tank101 said:


> Thanks for explaining the differences. I dont choose a dog just because of "looks". I do look at personality ect.. I've never been to a breeder before I have only had rescue dogs, so this is all very new to me. I do know what to look for a breeder like health testing, doing some kind of venue ect... it is just the *lines* I was un-sure about. I will read that link and see if it helps. I really like Sables(I know that is going off coloring but I DO like any coloring but the sable just *pops* out and I love it ) Are they more from the working line? all the dog shows I have seen on TV all the show GSD's are only black/reds.
> 
> 
> For the venues. Is there even one around central Illinois!!?? Where i live it is completely surrounded by cornfields(no joke) and there isn't much around here. I can't drive either so my parents have to lug me around places so even if I could get them to take me too a show it would have to be close.


I also live in central Illinois and go to training in Indianapolis. There are a few clubs around IL so you may be able to find one depending on your area.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It does really depend on how much time and effort you're willing to put into the dog. A show line will hike/swim/run with you just as much as a working line will, but a working line in general just needs a little more in its life to keep it happy. Exercise is good, but it needs to think. When it got really cold up here, and I couldn't take him for as long of walks as usual, he did get a little stir crazy in the house. Same when its raining for two days straight, but a show line will in general be a little more content to lay around and just be with you. They love training just as much as a working line, but they just don't usually do it with the same gusto (its hard to explain until you see it).

I think that all lines are huge commitments and need a lot of time and effort, but in my biased opinion, I think the working lines require a little more. It has nothing to do with laziness or not enough drive, but in general the show lines just settle down quicker and faster.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

martemchik said:


> It does really depend on how much time and effort you're willing to put into the dog. A show line will hike/swim/run with you just as much as a working line will, but a working line in general just needs a little more in its life to keep it happy. Exercise is good, but it needs to think. When it got really cold up here, and I couldn't take him for as long of walks as usual, he did get a little stir crazy in the house. Same when its raining for two days straight, but a show line will in general be a little more content to lay around and just be with you. They love training just as much as a working line, but they just don't usually do it with the same gusto (its hard to explain until you see it).
> 
> I think that all lines are huge commitments and need a lot of time and effort, but in my biased opinion, I think the working lines require a little more. It has nothing to do with laziness or not enough drive, but in general the show lines just settle down quicker and faster.


I agree, Delgado's from working lines and while he's medium energy he really thrives when his mind is being kept busy, I'm always trying to come up with new games and tricks


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## Shrap (Mar 4, 2011)

German show line:


























American Show line:


















Working lines:




















Temperament wise:

WGSL: Be careful, make good pets but make sure the dogs are from fully titled lines and that the dogs actually did a trial, make sure they have good nerve. Some can work, unfortunately some breeders don't care about working ability. Mine can.
Would also like to point out there are lots of WG dogs working sheep in Germany.
ASL: Lack nerve, no working drive, but with socialisation make good lower energy pets.

Most working lines are mixed Czech/DDR. For a pet you'd be looking for one with low defence drive/high threshold. If you want one of them go to a sport dog breeder and pick a lower energy puppy.

With all lines make sure you speak to someone in the know about epilepsy. Lots have epileptics in their pedigrees.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I've had experience with both German show and working lines. There is a lot of room for individual variation, but IN GENERAL: the working lines seem to have a bit more "edge" to them when they are working. If you watch videos of show dogs doing SchH bitework and then working dogs, you'll notice it.

Some of the working lines can be a bit much for a family to handle. The energy and drive in some working dogs can be intense. They *should* have a good, stable temperament, though. Not to say that show lines are lazy, they have plenty of energy for everyday doggie activities and more.

In Germany, every GSD regardless of bloodline must complete, at a minimum, a SchH1 or herding title in order to get breeding rights. So you could argue that show lines also work. Most males of both bloodlines acheive SchH3. Showline females generally get a SchH1 and then go on to maternity duties, while working line females often go on to SchH3. Both bloodlines must have a show rating as well. Most showline dogs will have a VA (excellent select) or V(excellent) in front of their name. Working line dogs will have G(good), SG(very good), or V(excellent) in front of their name.

The most noticable difference between bloodlines is color. German show lines are almost exclusively black and red saddlebacks. Working lines come in all colors, sable, bicolor, black, and saddleback. Show lines tend to have more angulation in the rear legs, and--to my eye--have a sort of "cookie cutter" appearance when you line them up together. All plush coated black and red saddles, some with a humpbacked appearance when stacked in a show pose. I personally like the look of the working lines, the more moderate angulation, compact solid build, tight cat feet... but that is just one person's opinion.

Just so you don't think I'm TOO biased, I have to add this. A client is bringing his German showline female in for grooming, she's now about 9 months old I believe. I would steal her in a hot second. Lovely bitch, not overdone, sweet temperament, calm and compliant with everything I do to her, takes everything in stride. She is what I'd call the perfect family dog.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Shrap said:


> Most working lines are mixed Czech/DDR.


Huh? :thinking:


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Falon and I are WL folks but we're both having a blast working with Willa the WGSL pup. 

At the end of a day, a good dog is a good dog


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## Shrap (Mar 4, 2011)

I forget this is a US forum. Most working line dogs over here in the UK are a mix of Czech and DDR lines, more heavily czech. Not many west german work lines. But then I'm only involved in SchH and not heavily.

We have more sport dogs than those for security or PP, but then I would very seriously hope your PP kennels wouldn't sell to an average family home lol!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Shrap said:


> I forget this is a US forum. Most working line dogs over here in the UK are a mix of Czech and DDR lines, more heavily czech. Not many west german work lines. But then I'm only involved in SchH and not heavily.
> 
> We have more sport dogs than those for security or PP, but then I would very seriously hope your PP kennels wouldn't sell to an average family home lol!


Around here it is hard to find any pure line within the working lines. Most are a mix of German working lines with some DDR and some Czech or even Belgian. I am yet to know any working line that is only one or the other, so I find it hard to understand why there is that much discussion about, here in this forum.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Not all ASL are nervy and lack drive.






























And the list goes on...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

and I"d take a dog from Daphne any ole day)))


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## HundenHaus (Mar 9, 2007)

my breeder just told me that my puppy has specks of white hair on his chest and he is only 5 wks old.

he will definitely be schutzhund trained but still concern about the white speck on his chest since i am thinking of breeding him later.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Why would white on his chest bother you?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

HundenHaus said:


> my breeder just told me that my puppy has specks of white hair on his chest and he is only 5 wks old.
> 
> he will definitely be schutzhund trained but still concern about the white speck on his chest since i am thinking of breeding him later.


Really? Why be concerned with a bit of white spotting? If you are thinking of breeding him later, that will be the least of what people look at when deciding on a stud dog.


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## HundenHaus (Mar 9, 2007)

my puppy is solid black and not so sure how it would turn out when he grows up. i googled search and seen pictures of white hair on the chest and supposedly they are purebreed. my previous solid black had some white hair here and there but he was a working breed and back then i was not thinking of breeding.

im not sure if it will be an issue when i breed him.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Well, there is more to breeding than the white spotting gene. You need to make sure he is 'all that' thru health tests of course and show his attributes thru training venues, breed survey and trials.... and not let just anyone use him because he is an intact male. Responsible breeders won't use a stud dog unless he is very, very special, there are plenty to choose from yet only a few are chosen. 
I know many dogs with white spotting and it is not a big deal whatsoever.


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## Ronda (Aug 23, 2010)

If the white is just a spot, it may go away completely. When I went to get my girl, she was the only one of the 4 black females with a white spot. I admit, I was hoping that my puppy was one of the pups with no white. Nope, mine had the white spot. I didn't care as soon as I saw her in person.


Baby bratty Saphira with white spot









1 yr old bratty Saphira with no white spot









One more from the other side to show that there is no white spot left at all (and that she's not always bratty now!)









Don't stress about the white spot.


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## Shrap (Mar 4, 2011)

Andaka said:


> Not all ASL are nervy and lack drive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is that supposed to show?

Btw the titles that ASL GSDs gain in herding are ***** easy... I'd like to see far more of them titled in SchH.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

It is supposed to show that all ASL dogs are not lazy and lack drive.

And why do you think that the AKC herding is so easy?


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

Shrap said:


> What is that supposed to show?
> 
> Btw the titles that ASL GSDs gain in herding are ***** easy... I'd like to see far more of them titled in SchH.


Pretty rude...
It's like saying "I wanna see more working lines dominate show lines in the ring"
Different lines these days are bred for different purposes...


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## Shrap (Mar 4, 2011)

Kev said:


> Pretty rude...
> It's like saying "I wanna see more working lines dominate show lines in the ring"
> Different lines these days are bred for different purposes...


No it's not because I'm a show line girl. Although I appreciate a nice working line too. It's me saying, I'd like to see more dogs with sound temperaments in the ring


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

These threads always go down hill.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Shrap said:


> What is that supposed to show?


You can't *make* a dog go over a jump, and you can't *make* a dog herd sheep. The dog has to have the drive, desire, and ability to do these things and the temperament to accomplish these tasks under command and in different environments.

You can talk about degrees of drive, if you want to. I agree that it takes a lot more drive to do SchH protection work than it does to go over a jump.


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