# I got distracted, my pup pays the price.



## oldun (Feb 20, 2017)

A bit of a long story, perhaps convoluted, but thanks for reading.


When we adopted our pup a year ago, he was a good-sized boy (88 pounds, 30 inches @ the withers), bi-colored, and loud voiced. We have a neighbor that, from the time we brought him home, has made many disparaging comments – You better watch out for that dog, etc. Once while my wife was walking the dog on the street, he approached and made threatening insinuations that we should watch out, indicating he had his concealed carry license if the dog made any trouble. He has gone so far as to yell at my wife to “get that dog under control” while pup was on our property doing his business. He ceased yelling at my wife the day I stood in our driveway, staring him down.


Honestly, our pup is very protective. If he hears a car door, or someone knocks at our door, he alerts loudly and continuously until we investigate. When family or friends visit, he would make lots of noise until we learned that if we let him out to investigate, he was perfectly content.


Fast forward to last week. I stepped out to bring our trash cans back from the curb, and the pup came out with me off leash, as he has done many, many times over the last year. I get close to the end of the drive, tell him to stay, and he waits for me to come back and release him.


Well, this day, he went to the back of our house, so I decided to get the cans while he wandered. As I got to the street, the neighbor struck up a conversation with me – got me distracted. As we talked, pup came tearing across the yard, across the street, barking and finally jumped up on the neighbor. I called him, he came to me, all good (I thought). As I apologized, the neighbor talked for a minute, looked at his arm and said, “he got me”. He showed me an area on his arm about 1/8 inch that was bleeding. In hindsight, I believe a claw caused the injury. Pup has never bitten anyone.


Long story short, the neighbor called the sheriff’s office and reported the incident. They came out and took a report, informing us we would be visited by the animal resource center. When the folks from the ARC arrived, we were informed that due to the unprovoked “attack”, pup would be labeled as a dangerous dog. This requires us to put up warning signs, and keep him in an enclosed area (fenced yard or kennel) or on a leash/tether at all times. If off our property, he may also need to be muzzled.


I’m heart broken. I messed up big time by being distracted. I feel like I have doomed my pup to wearing this scarlet letter for the rest of his days, and he is only 3 years young.


So, on to my questions. Is this something that anyone else has experienced, and if so, what are your experiences? Does this albatross hang around his neck forever, unable to run off leash even at a dog park? Is there any way to get this wiped from his record? We have him in obedience training, and are working towards AKC Canine Good Citizen certification. 



Again, thanks for reading, and any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Two things. Your dog is not ready to be off leash. He charged a neighbor and injured him. Instead of feeling bad, get training so that never happens again. 

The other is that my neighbor’s rescue was off leash and charged at my dog from across the street. I was furious, but I did not call AC. I talked to the neighbor. Actually, kind of shouted at him. Be honest with yourself. Is your neighbor a thoughtless animal hater or were there signs before that might have worried him?


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

I'm sorry that this happened but I have to agree too he needs more training. At 3 years old I wouldn't find it acceptable for a dog to be jumping on people. I'd expect that in a young un trained puppy perhaps but a dog over 80 lbs jumping and scratching people can be seriously intimidating especially to a person that isn't a dog person and if the dog is running around loose. I'd take this as a lesson and be grateful the dog didn't get put to sleep.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I would be careful how you view him. You say he is protective, but what you wrote reads as not particularly clear-headed. Or perhaps a dog that hasn't been taught how to behave appropriately with other poeple. A stable dog that is actually protective will not attack a neighbor you are chatting with. There was no threat. I am incredibly sorry you are in this situation, and I’m very sorry your neighbor was on the receiving end of this. Continue to work with your dog and make sure you really proof his obedience. I wouldn’t let him call the shots in your home, nor would I allow him out with visitors. I would make everything extremely black and white for him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It's all hindsight now. But this guy has repeatedly provoked and yelled at your wife in front of this dog. Dogs remember. Did you ever report this guy for threatening you and your wife? He may have acted inappropriately. Or he may have been "hey...there's that jerk near my person"

So now, you put up a fence and you work twice as hard on obedience. And by obedience I mean OBEDIENCE. IPO level obedience. Not CGC level. If you say Down, he better drop. if you say Here, he better pivot and return. You just don't have any other options at this point. He doesn't get to make decisions on his own. 

I'm sorry this happened. We weren't there to observe the back history or the event so I won't pass judgement on anyone. Unfortunately, your choices are very limited now. I would make sure to record any and all instances of the neighbor continuing to threaten you and do everything you can to contain and train your dog.


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

USA always gets me. I was raiseid in the Europe, village, now living in Asia, village. I can't put my head around that somebody would call police over a dog bite. Not even talking about some scratch from pawn!  I would expect that police would laught at your for reporting a dog bite. :laugh2: Completely different mentality I guess. And it even seems that it has serious consequences for both of you. :frown2:

Sorry I can't offer any advice.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Sorry, this happened to you. A couple of things; 1) why would you even talk to this neighbor? I wouldn't give him the time of day. 2) Your dog is not a "pup", he is an adult German Shepherd. You should not be referring to this DOG as pup or view him that way anymore. That mentality of viewing the dog as a "pup" will cause more trouble. 

You now know he will charge people, you should have known this already, and probably will bite. Don't make excuses, just mage your dog properly. I would never take him out in the front yard ever again off lead. You do not have the control over him and he will pay a very serious price if you do this again. Yes, this will be with your dog forever. You need to learn how to handle and own a dog like this. You have gotten your one freebie, he could have just as easily been hit by a car running across the street. 

Your dog is not doomed by this scarlet letter by any means. I have dogs that will and have appropriately bitten people, they go everywhere with me. They are not off lead in my front yard and they are extremely well trained. I do not go to parks, and I suggest that you do not either. Dog parks can be nothing but trouble, especially with a dog with limited obedience and poor manners. 

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about this too much. Accept who your dog is, what he can do and handle him appropriately. Don't put your dog in another bad situation, but enjoy your dog and do things with him. I would also avoid the neighbor, he sounds like a moron. It is a little odd that he had to tell your wife to "get your dog under control?" Obedience training is going to make a huge difference in your lives. Good luck with your boy and don't stress over this too much.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

andywhite said:


> USA always gets me. I was raiseid in the Europe, village, now living in Asia, village. I can't put my head around that somebody would call police over a dog bite. Not even talking about some scratch from pawn!  I would expect that police would laught at your for reporting a dog bite. :laugh2: Completely different mentality I guess. And it even seems that it has serious consequences for both of you. :frown2:
> 
> Sorry I can't offer any advice.


Some people do not like getting jumped on and bit or even scratched by loose out of control dogs. Some people are very afraid of dogs. Some people do not like dogs. It is their right and we have to respect that and control our dogs. 

People call the police for all kinds of things, you'd be surprised. In this case that was probably the best way to handle this. The neighbor had already voiced his concerns with the dog several times, now what he was worried about happened. Far better than him acting on the veiled threats he made in the past.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

I'm very sorry to hear that this happened. I have to echo what everyone else said - solid, strong obedience will go a long way with this dog. While dogs do remember negative behaviours from others, especially if it's compounded over the years, discretion and obedience makes a huge difference in their behaviour. I agree with what Slamdunc said... when we have large, intimidating dogs, it's kind of on us to be ambassadors for the breed and show that we have well mannered, well trained dogs that we have control over that won't cause unease.

Your dog may have to adhere to certain things now, due to having a history and a label, but it does not mean he is going to live a miserable life. It just means that it's on you to work with him so that he can be the best ambassador for the breed by showing the public that he is well behaved and under control at all times when in public. Yesterday I saw an APBT with both prong and muzzle on while I was walking downtown with friends. That dog looked perfectly happy and was incredibly well trained, and clearly was having a great time walking with his owner to enjoy the sunshine.


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## oldun (Feb 20, 2017)

Thanks to everyone that has responded for the positive comments, and I look forward to more.
A few comments just to clarify things. 
This dog has been outside off leash in our yard almost every day since we have had him. He had previously received training from the original owners, as well as the rescue we got him from, and has never exhibited this type of behavior. While located at the rescue, he visited nursing homes and was beginning to learn to be a therapy dog. We have taken him into various retail locations, albeit on leash, and he has been an angel. That’s part of what makes this so puzzling. 
He is currently in training with us at a professional facility to solidify and increase his obedience. We are currently pursuing CGC, but do not expect that to be the end. Not certain that IPO is in his future, but approaching that level is intended.
When we first got him, he had a bad habit of jumping on people to greet them. That behavior was addressed and, in general, he does not jump on anyone without their asking.
My use of the term “pup” is something I have done with all our previous dogs, regardless of age. Sorry if that presented the wrong impression. I am fully aware of his age, and I thank you for bringing that up. 
Most of all, I truly appreciate all the comments that have provided me a less gloomy view of his future. I guess I feel that I failed him by not keeping an eye on him. Complacency can really bite you (no pun intended) when you least expect it.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

reality check -- sotp calling this big dog a pup "When we adopted our pup a year ago, he was a good-sized boy (88 pounds, 30 inches @ the withers), bi-colored, and loud voiced."

that is a big dog . That is a big GSD. He can be obnoxious with his loud mega-phone voice.

He is adopted. You said you adopted him one year ago and the dog was already 30 inches tall and a hefty 88 pounds .So the dog may be two or three years of age . Not a puppy. 

Because 

the neighour made it beyond crystal clear that he does not like the dog , does not like your management of him.
("s to yell at my wife to “get that dog under control” ) 

"Honestly, our pup is very protective. " Well maybe not . Maybe just reactive because this is not a threat "If he hears a car door, or someone knocks at our door, he alerts loudly and continuously " and if he were "very protective" then you would not have done this "if we let him out to investigate, he was perfectly content"

you don't know how the people will react -- they could trigger some prey or aggressive action.

if you think the dog is "very protective" then you need to take that into consideration and control the dog - not have him greet at the door -- not nuissance bark . 

so the dog accompanies you off leash on a routine chore and instead of waiting in his spot to be released the dog casually decides to drift to the back of your house . That indicates that his training isn't as reliable . Out of sight out of mind .

now you need to take extra measures . A spacious kennel in your yard . Dog is put into tjhis kennel when outside and not under supervision. The "yard" is not good enough because doors are opened and dog can sneak out or fence run and bark.
Instead of running leash free you can strap on a pair of sneakers and job with the dog .
NO dog parks . you can't afford any more aggression tags on this dog . 

Important that YOU and the dog go to a traiing class where the dog is taught all the basic exercises of the AKC
Companion Dog levels of obedience - and be tested , and score well , reliable , no fails in the exercises . You keep on going till you get it.

The dog must be taught quiet. He does not need to greet at the door - and no releasing the dog to make contact with the people who are at the door when the dog is over stmulated. He is rewarded for barking. 

I see on re-reading your post that the dog is three years old. That is not a puppy.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

andywhite said:


> USA always gets me. I was raiseid in the Europe, village, now living in Asia, village. I can't put my head around that somebody would call police over a dog bite. Not even talking about some scratch from pawn! /forum/images/smilies/confused.gif I would expect that police would laught at your for reporting a dog bite. /forum/images/Germanshepherds_2016/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png Completely different mentality I guess. And it even seems that it has serious consequences for both of you. /forum/images/Germanshepherds_2016/smilies/tango_face_sad.png
> 
> Sorry I can't offer any advice.


Completely agree.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

In this kind of situation, as hard as it mind sound, try and be thankful he's still your dog and they didn't take him away. Having your dog is a blessing everyday, and I hope this situation won't limit his life. And also, your neighbour is an arse.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree with stopping referring to and perceiving this dog as a puppy/pup. This is extremely important. 

Now you know. 

The dog does not care one wit about the "scarlet letter." You do. You are now forced by law to be responsible with the dog, which is what you should have been all along. But, let's face it, many of us let our dogs run in our yard, fence or no fence while we are going to the car, getting the mail, or bringing in groceries. 

And on occasion, some of us get a wake up call. Your dog went across the street (out of your yard) to go after the neighbor. The idea he was jumping on the neighbor to "greet" him, I think is odd. It sounds like this neighbor was no "friend" of his, and even a threat. 

I also think that it is likely it was a claw and not a tooth. But, it doesn't matter, really. If he knocked the person down by his jumping up on him, then it would be just as bad. 

I have a 5 year old male that has never liked horses, since the day I brought him home at about 18 months. I live with Amish across the street from me. All my dogs can run in my unfenced front yard because they run right to the car and wait there for me to let them in. Or the run to the back where the rest of the kennels are and they can bark at their buddies. Until Cujo decided that he really, REALLY did not like the horse that was being ridden down the road by the Amish fellow. He did not scratch or bite anyone, but it was highly embarrassing to get him out of the street and up into the house, without getting his head kicked in. 

I am sorry this happened. Take it as a wake up call. Your dog could have been killed if he ran in front of a car, or if he actually did serious damage to the guy and the court ordered him put down, or if the guy did pull out his weapon and shoot the dog.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Some consequences you need to keep in mind:

1. With this history, another bite often results in a euthanasia order--a canine death sentence. You have NO room for error. Your dog's life depends on your vigilance. 

2. You likely have a duty to report this to your homeowners insurer even if the other guy doesn't sue. Check your policy on that. When you renew, you are representing to the insurer "I have no material change in risk". Having a dangerous dog designation is a material change. They underwrite based on the representation nothing changed. In some states, not telling them about a change in risk can trigger rescission (retroactive cancellation) if you ever have a claim, even unrelated to the dog. So if your home burns down years from now from an electric short, the investigator finds the public record of the bite incident, then they rescind your policy without paying for the fire. It is very scary in states that allow it. Read your policy documents to find out what your reporting obligation is, or talk to your agent. 

3. You may lose HO coverage. Be ready to have to shop. 

4. You may need a separate, expensive dog liability policy. That's often a condition of a dangerous dog order.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

It is good that you have a trainer. A couple things aren't clear though and maybe that info will help with seeking advice. I would defer to your trainer though. Experienced eyes on something is much much better than determining things from a texted post.

What was your wife doing when he yelled at her on multiple occasions? Was the dog bounding up to him? Barking at him while off lead? 

You say he has been impeccable off lead on your property before, correct? So what made him yell at your wife on your property? If it was the mere presence of the dog I'd be highly suspicious of someone who was trying to create a situation where the dog would finally approach him...so he can sue or make you get rid of the dog because he hates GSDs or something..it genuinely happens. 

Whether the guy was at fault, or you just weren't reading your dog being trusted off lead properly.. the only thing that matters is you couldn't stop him from making contact with someone, provoked or unprovoked.

It sounds cliche but there are people that plan these types of things. Not saying that is what happened, just introducing it as another possibility.

What happens next if you allow something to happen again varies greatly by state to state and even from municipality to municipality. Look at the town level, your town's dangerous dog statutes. Don't let it happen again of course..but IF it does at least you will know what is next.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Oh and another thing because I just reread your OP. If your wife was walking down the street and the dog was not acting as a threat to him and HE was initiating threats and intimating he has a concealed carry, that is considered in most states as threatening in the absence of a need of self defense. In some states, threatening someone who is not threatening you, by saying you have a gun, carries the same penalty as "brandishing"

In NJ, brandishing is considered use of deadly force even if no shots are fired. So, I didn't look to see which state you are in, but your neighbor better watch his you know what when bragging about a firearm. Unless he is being threatened, saying stuff like that...most places...das verboten and could cost him at the minimum, his CC permit.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

oldun said:


> A bit of a long story, perhaps convoluted, but thanks for reading.
> 
> 
> When we adopted our pup a year ago, he was a good-sized boy (88 pounds, 30 inches @ the withers), bi-colored, and loud voiced. We have a neighbor that, from the time we brought him home, has made many disparaging comments – You better watch out for that dog, etc. Once while my wife was walking the dog on the street, he approached and made threatening insinuations that we should watch out, indicating he had his concealed carry license if the dog made any trouble. He has gone so far as to yell at my wife to “get that dog under control” while pup was on our property doing his business. He ceased yelling at my wife the day I stood in our driveway, staring him down.
> ...


First of all, I agree with others. Not a pup and referring to him as such lulls YOU into a false sense of security.
As to the bolded part, I KNOW that JQP has multiple issues with German Shepherds. I do all of this anyway. Unless we are somewhere appropriate my dogs are leashed, I don't do dog parks, My yard is fenced and my current dog is muzzled in public areas. I have warning signs up, I monitor my dog at ALL times outside and keep gates secured to prevent accidents. 
I used to let Sabi accompany me to the sidewalk to get mail, toss the trash, or just chat with neighbors. Off leash but under firm control. Her OB was solid and ALL of my neighbors adored her and enjoyed her coming out to hold court. I also knew most of my neighbors did not like Bud or Shadow so both were never off leash in the area. Know your audience.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I agree with everyone who has posted about taking precautions, but I do find it a bit sad that we live in a society where a dog who jumped up and barely scratched someone is determined instantly dangerous. I don't know the dog, and am going only off the OPs description, but this wasn't even a bite. No ER bills, no treatment required, dog might have barely scratched the guy- less than a kitchen accident with the carrot peeler and the dog is deemed dangerous and might die if the same exact minor thing happened again. 

I guess the moral of the story is that you must have 100% control of your dog, at all times, and make no errors of any kind. Ever. Because that is the world we live in. Kind of scary, and puts a huge onus on GSD owners to train, manage and contain. But that is where we are as a society, I suppose. 

I'm certainly not excusing jumping on strangers. Not at all, but I just wish that people would try to work toward resolution of something like this through meaningful dialogue, neighbor to neighbor, rather than jumping straight to the authorities. 

OP- Train, train train! If there is one thing I train for it is emergency recall. Dog must stop on a dime and return to me at a specific command. I keep this command sharp and honed with practice. Could save your dog's life and also will prevent any future incidents. Make sure you not only work on the recall, but that the dog stays with you after the recall until released. 

I think if you have a certain number of years with no incident and proof of training- CGC might help- the order can be lifted in some areas. You'd have to check local laws. I also would think you have right to appeal the order.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

one more thing in regards to training .

I do believe that you said you were going to a trainer - and that trainer better be balanced and clear in the head because there are those that are NOT.

I do believe you said that you may take him to IPO . 

for YOU , I would NOT suggest this. JQP doesn't really understand what is going on.
You may not understand what your greater responsibility is or how to manage the dog with "the training"

If your excited neighbour finds out there will be an "ah hah!" moment wich consolidates and entrenches his
ideas that you WANT a VICIOUS dog . 

this will work against you. Big time.

the canine good citizen , in my opinion , doesn't mean much . 

join a training class -- so that you work with the other dogs of all sorts and dispositions.

you work , old phrase "in the sun" meaning that what and how you do will be open and seen 
not hidden away with one opinion on your progress 

you need to be able to demonstrate crisp reliable obedience and that is where the format of the AKC basic Companion Dog exercises come in handy

why not? we have discussed that level more than a few times over the years on this forum when trainers
who market "protection" dogs charge $$$$$$'s for categories that they fancify with names like "elite" level
when all it is is CD . , companion dog , heel, change of speed, left-right turns , about turn and stop and automatic sit . The a recall . A sit stay, a down stay , A stand for examination.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think the IPO reference was my fault. I said his obedience needed to be "IPO level". I think he misunderstood that I was saying the dog needed to do IPO. What I was trying to say was the obedience needed to be high level with no compromise of what was expected of the dog.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Seltzer> "' Until Cujo decided that he really, REALLY did not like the horse that was being ridden down the road by the Amish fellow. He did not scratch or bite anyone, but it was highly embarrassing to get him out of the street and up into the house, without getting his head kicked in. "

OMG. This is our worst nightmare. Large dogs attacking a ridden horse -- This could get both the horse and rider killed! Horse spooks into traffic> killed. Rider falls off on pavement, hits head> killed. I have dismounted and defended my horse with a riding crop. Not everyone has such cojones. A little girl I know was thrown, dragged and killed. Please never EVER let your dogs go out and lunge at horses.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Seltzer> "' Until Cujo decided that he really, REALLY did not like the horse that was being ridden down the road by the Amish fellow. He did not scratch or bite anyone, but it was highly embarrassing to get him out of the street and up into the house, without getting his head kicked in. "
> 
> OMG. This is our worst nightmare. Large dogs attacking a ridden horse -- This could get both the horse and rider killed! Horse spooks into traffic> killed. Rider falls off on pavement, hits head> killed. I have dismounted and defended my horse with a riding crop. Not everyone has such cojones. A little girl I know was thrown, dragged and killed. Please never EVER let your dogs go out and lunge at horses.


Yep, lived out here 23 years, with my Amish neighbors. Amish know how to train horses actually, they are not week-end riders. Their animals are pretty much on the road every day, usually pulling wagons or buggies. But all of them are rock solid. 

And, no, I do not let them chase horses. I have one neutered male that I got at 18 months old that already had animosity toward horses. The girls love this dog, and the only reason he was not kenneled was because I let them have him out when they are over. He sleeps with them. They opened the front door, and out he came. It just happened to be when the Amish fellow was riding his horse. No one was injured and I did corral the dog and get him back into the house. Both girls do ride, so I think they are better equipped to be careful with him when they are over. And, I put up a kennel gate in front of my front door. So now, you cannot just open the door and go running to the car. I have to get everyone out, then I can tie my front door closed with a bungee cord (else the wind blows it open), and then I can collar the dogs, and, if it is cujo leash his butt, and then open the gate and go to the car. 

No one will just barge out of my front door with free access to the road however far away it happens to be. 

Yep, lived out here 23 years, and this is the first incident of its kind, and I put up a safe-guard to prevent that from ever happening again. Even though it is just the one dog. Even though he is generally kenneled in the back yard where there is fencing around the kennels, and the kennels are on concrete and covered over. Even though the girls are only at my house once or twice a year. Even though no one was injured, no critter was injured, no one suggested suing. (Oh, and I apologized too.) 

The Amish fellow has a bunch of kids and they have a miniature horse they drive to school and to their grandparents house. He has a couple of dogs, one of which I caught and brought back to him, trailing its chain. They are neighbors. Good neighbors. I am a pretty good neighbor too. His rooster wakes my dogs, and my dogs wake the rest of the world. LOL! He has work horses, buggy horses, the miniature horse, and I am not sure if the one he rides is a buggy horse, or a horse just for riding. They have meeting at their home once a month or every other month, and then there are a LOT of buggies. And sometimes the walk between the grandparents and their house, and my front dogs will bark, I come out and hush them. They wave. Good neighbors. 

But they do know how to train and keep critters. Don't worry about it. Everyone is safe.

ETA: Oh, and having been a cyclist for many, many years, I have had many, many encounters with dogs out in the country (like where I am), doing as much as my dog did or worse, and yes, you can easily lose control of your bicycle, be hit by a car or mauled by the dog. Had to hit one of them with Halt. But usually if your just keep going, they give up at a certain distance from their property line and go back home.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

selzer said:


> Yep, lived out here 23 years, with my Amish neighbors. Amish know how to train horses actually, they are not week-end riders. Their animals are pretty much on the road every day, usually pulling wagons or buggies. But all of them are rock solid.
> 
> And, no, I do not let them chase horses. I have one neutered male that I got at 18 months old that already had animosity toward horses. The girls love this dog, and the only reason he was not kenneled was because I let them have him out when they are over. He sleeps with them. They opened the front door, and out he came. It just happened to be when the Amish fellow was riding his horse. No one was injured and I did corral the dog and get him back into the house. Both girls do ride, so I think they are better equipped to be careful with him when they are over. And, I put up a kennel gate in front of my front door. So now, you cannot just open the door and go running to the car. I have to get everyone out, then I can tie my front door closed with a bungee cord (else the wind blows it open), and then I can collar the dogs, and, if it is cujo leash his butt, and then open the gate and go to the car.
> 
> ...


This seems to insinuate that week end riders who don't know how to train horses are the only ones who should have an issue with a charging german shepherd? And someone who really knows horses or trains them properly should be fine? I can think of a ton of reasons why I disagree with this.... 

I thought your training methods were so effective that your dogs would never cross your property line or refuse a recall?

I am glad you took steps so that it won't happen again.


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## Mame (Mar 13, 2018)

To the OP thanking people for nice comments...I'd be thanking people for all the comments. It's not personal, it's about the dog. I have done the below mentioned things, including a muzzle when out in public, with my 2.5yo adopted GSD since DAY ONE because she has to show me she can be 100% before I let her interact with anyone (human or animal) freely. That's common sense with a dog who's come to you via (?) and not one you've raised since eight weeks. And even then! Control, control, control. It's your responsibility. Your dog got labeled because it is *not* under control. Saying, "but this never happened before," means zip, and sounds like coddling or excuses. It's easy to be reactive when we're looking for support and we get a hard truth, but the truth is more important and it's what will help you keep your dog from being euthanized in the future.



oldun said:


> This requires us to put up warning signs, and keep him in an enclosed area (fenced yard or kennel) or on a leash/tether at all times. If off our property, he may also need to be muzzled.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what is important in this thread.

we have two neighbours EACH with attitude - two to blame . 

when a post starts off with 
we adopted our pup a year ago, he was a good-sized boy (88 pounds, 30 inches @ the withers), bi-colored, and loud voiced."

then a further description - 
"Honestly, our pup is very protective. If he hears a car door, or someone knocks at our door, he alerts loudly and continuously until we investigate. "

Not protective .

When family or friends visit, he would make lots of noise until we learned that if we let him out to investigate, he was perfectly content." 

So how did your family and invited friends feel? That is not protective . Goes to management and consideration for the people. 
So the dog got to buzz the people which pleased you , the dog was allowed to go out - away from your physical control which may or may not have necessary . You learned , you experimented, you took a risk , by letting the dog out. 
And the dog was perfectly content.
So how abut the people?

" Combined with the initial description of over size and weight and assertive bark could there be any swagger on the OP's presentation and pride in having some intimidating beast of a dog ?"

Attitude.

Now to the neighbour . 
We don't know if there has been any past smouldering problem . They are neighbours .

quote OP again 
"We have a neighbor that, from the time we brought him home, has made many disparaging comments – You better watch out for that dog,"

After what time period ? What did the neighbour experience to voice concern?

" Once while my wife was walking the dog on the street, " 
edited
" if the dog made any trouble. He has gone so far as to yell at my wife to “get that dog under control” while pup was on our property doing his business."

neighbour said 
" he approached and made threatening insinuations that we should watch out, indicating he had his concealed carry license"

that is beyond stupid . But did you not take him seriously -- time to evaluate ? Is the person known to push his weight around?

quote OP 
"He ceased yelling at my wife the day I stood in our driveway, staring him down."

and that improved the neighbourhood tension and resolved a problem. yeah.
And so things unravelled to where they are now. 

No changes in management . A dog that with a certain "image" which is promoted .
We don't know how your wife walked with the dog. Maybe the dog did appear out of contrl , maybe secretly pleased when others cross the street as they approach . 
We have one side of the story . A pup . not a pup .
Op sees a harmless pup - which he may be .
Others see a risk to themselves , which he may be.

When you have this breed you are dealing with reality and perception , a lot of negative , some earned
some not , feelings. Look at the number of people on the forum who have posted that they can not get housing because there is a breed ban imposed by the landlord or co op agreement.

So, a very very minor incident , a scratch , the opportunity that the neighbour exploits to get you.

I keep saying to do a group class --- show others how you are engaged with your dog and yes with the others.
A test for good citizen on the dog and the owners part.

go back and read Magwart's post.

iGo back and read Mame's good post.


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## oldun (Feb 20, 2017)

Mame said:


> To the OP thanking people for nice comments...I'd be thanking people for all the comments. It's not personal, it's about the dog. I have done the below mentioned things, including a muzzle when out in public, with my 2.5yo adopted GSD since DAY ONE because she has to show me she can be 100% before I let her interact with anyone (human or animal) freely. That's common sense with a dog who's come to you via (?) and not one you've raised since eight weeks. And even then! Control, control, control. It's your responsibility. Your dog got labeled because it is *not* under control. Saying, "but this never happened before," means zip, and sounds like coddling or excuses. It's easy to be reactive when we're looking for support and we get a hard truth, but the truth is more important and it's what will help you keep your dog from being euthanized in the future.



Lets be clear here, Mame. I never thanked folks for "nice" comments. I thanked everyone for "Positive" comments. Huge difference. Maybe you should read more carefully.


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## Mame (Mar 13, 2018)

oldun said:


> Lets be clear here, Mame. I never thanked folks for "nice" comments. I thanked everyone for "Positive" comments. Huge difference. Maybe you should read more carefully.


Yes, quibble over semantics. That's the answer.


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## oldun (Feb 20, 2017)

Mame said:


> Yes, quibble over semantics. That's the answer.



It's not semantics, it's interpretation. You seem to have misunderstood my original comment. Being snarky when it is pointed out, yes that's the answer.


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## oldun (Feb 20, 2017)

Wow…..tough crowd.
Again, let me express my appreciation for all the POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE comments that I have received. All others, take it as you will.
I thought I started this thread to ask if anyone else had experienced a similar situation, and what advice might be offered. I’m beginning to think I erred.
Comments concerning training are understood. He has been in training with his previous owners, with the rescue he was previously with, and now with us. The training facility we are currently attending appear to follow a balanced philosophy, but then again, opinions vary. As I stated, CGC is the immediate goal, obedience similar to IPO level would be a long-term goal, but not IPO sport. Too many truly do not understand it.

I would like to address some items which seem to be recurring themes.
Calling my boy “pup”.
I call ALL dogs pup. (i.e. How are you pup?) Does that mean I don’t realize whether they are a youngster or and older, experienced animal? Would it be any different if I called them all George? I’m not sure I understand the fascination of calling this out.
Being “protective”. 
Perhaps I used an improper term, but this is how I see his behavior. My wife travels quite frequently by herself to our cabin. When he is with her, we want him to alert, make noise, whatever it takes to make any individuals with devious thoughts to reconsider if this is a target they wish to pursue. He does not exhibit this behavior anywhere but his “home” base. 
When I speak of letting him out, it is only to greet family and friends he is familiar with. These folks also know that can walk directly into our house without any issue. They know him, he knows them.

Again, thank you for responding. 
If you have made it this far, we received some potentially good news today. Animal Resources have reviewed the situation, and will possibly drop the case. We will definitely be more aware now.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Its never wrong to ask. Taking good advice and using it to fix a problem makes it worth everyone’s time taken to respond. You got a lucky reprieve. Now it’s up to you.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

oldun said:


> Wow…..tough crowd.
> Again, let me express my appreciation for all the POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE comments that I have received. All others, take it as you will.
> I thought I started this thread to ask if anyone else had experienced a similar situation, and what advice might be offered. I’m beginning to think I erred.
> Comments concerning training are understood. He has been in training with his previous owners, with the rescue he was previously with, and now with us. The training facility we are currently attending appear to follow a balanced philosophy, but then again, opinions vary. As I stated, CGC is the immediate goal, obedience similar to IPO level would be a long-term goal, but not IPO sport. Too many truly do not understand it.
> ...


I'm not wading into this at all, but I think what people are getting at with the "pup" thing is that GSDs are really farm animals, a good one is a bit on the rough side for city living. Doesn't mean it can't work, it obviously does all over the country, but they ended up on insurance actuaries lists' for a reason. 

We have a responsibility as owners of a potentially dangerous breed to act and speak accordingly in full recognition of the above. 

In the written form your post kind of gave of the vibe of "my sweet fur baby was just playing and the mean old neighbor man freaked out over nothing", with the rest of the way you wrote *I* didn't take it that way, but I could see how others could. 

Not for nothing, but language is very powerful. It does affect our perception of reality, you remember "newspeak" from 1984? Orwell didn't make that up for giggles. How you frame the problem DOES matter, i.e. pup (puppy) = no harm intended, dude needs to grow up & you can keep him contained him until he grows out of it vs adult dog = this is who he is, I need to make serious life choices to manage this for the next decade +. 

Like I said, though, I didn't take it that way and obviously you've heard the message. Best of luck, hope you stick around and enjoy the good people here & the depth of knowledge available on this site. Just remember to have thick skin if you start a thread LOL


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

oldun said:


> Wow…..tough crowd.
> Again, let me express my appreciation for all the POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE comments that I have received. All others, take it as you will.
> I thought I started this thread to ask if anyone else had experienced a similar situation, and what advice might be offered. I’m beginning to think I erred.
> Comments concerning training are understood. He has been in training with his previous owners, with the rescue he was previously with, and now with us. The training facility we are currently attending appear to follow a balanced philosophy, but then again, opinions vary. As I stated, CGC is the immediate goal, obedience similar to IPO level would be a long-term goal, but not IPO sport. Too many truly do not understand it.
> ...


About the pup thing. Bud was a big moose of a boy. He half lunged at someone trying to walk toward me (uninvited). I made some off handed comment to my dog about settle down handsome, you're my only guy.
The man was livid and informed me in no uncertain terms that my irresponsible attitude had been noted and that people like me should not own dogs.
When I thought about it, it seemed to this stranger that I was disregarding the fact that my dog had threatened him. He incorrectly interpreted that I baby my dogs. In reality I was pretty firm with Bud but my casual manner of speaking with him led people to believe otherwise.
And before anyone jumps on me, I was sitting on the grass, after dusk, in an empty area and the man veered toward me suddenly when he was only a few feet away.
As to everything else, I am glad you will get another chance. As I said before, I am aware that these dogs draw strong reactions from some people, so I keep them contained, controlled and supervised at all times. Signs and fences are your friends.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

I call dogs "pup" too, old dogs, young dogs, my dogs, stray dogs, other people's dogs lol... it's a colloquialism and maybe has to do with the region im from? I also call them all "bud" or "Buddy". I understand where the OP is coming from here... I don't for a second think of my grown dog as a little puppy or baby, it's similar to a country person calling someone "buckwheat" or "bubba" it's just like an informal hey you!
And for the record I hate and do not tolerate the "fur baby" movement I think it's bizzare. I love my dog but I think of him as more of my working partner and best friend. He is treated well but works hard and has certain expectations of behavior!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> This seems to insinuate that week end riders who don't know how to train horses are the only ones who should have an issue with a charging german shepherd? And someone who really knows horses or trains them properly should be fine? I can think of a ton of reasons why I disagree with this....
> 
> I thought your training methods were so effective that your dogs would never cross your property line or refuse a recall?
> 
> I am glad you took steps so that it won't happen again.


I've never trained Cujo. I took the prong collar off him before I got him home, and never put it back on him. On day two we went to get the girls from the horse barn, and he went nutso at horses. So, I know that he has a thing about horses. He has never been to classes, and I have not bothered to train him (I only train dogs in class). Why? He came to me neutered. So there is no point in showing him. The girls love him, he is good in the house, does what I tell him to, and lives with an older bitch who keeps him pretty much in line. But he is not "trained." I can take him to the vet without him going psycho on other dogs or people, and that is about as much as I require from him. I'd be interested to know why he has a problem with horses, but he does, and I am not overly concerned with it. He's great with the girls, so what more do we really need? 

The majority of my dogs have been through classes, many to the point of titles or even multiple titles. There are one or two, Cujo, Hepsi, who have never gone to a class. Ramona went twice, once with the girls to a kids and dog class, and once when Quinnie was in heat, I substituted Ramona for a day. She was actually pretty awesome and I want to get her back into classes, but Saturdays are my only day I can, and right now I have Tinny in puppy class. 9am, almost an hour away, which really sucks for a second-shifter. And I would do two classes if I could even drive there twice, but I have appointments on Saturday afternoon, which puts a damper on that. 

Jenna has been to obedience, rally, agility classes, Rally title, CGC
Babs has been to obedience, rally classes, Rally titles, CD, herding instinct test, CGC
Heidi had been to rally classes and has rally titles, CGC
Odie has been to a Thursday evening class a few times, has a schutzhund 1 that I did not put on her.
Milla has been to rally/obedience classes and has a rally title and a CGC
Ninja has been to rally/obedience classes and has a Rally title and a CGC
Joy has been to Rally, obedience, conformation, and agility classes, Rally title, CGC. 
Bear has been to Rally/obedience classes, has a CGC.
Lassie has been to Rally/obedience classes, 
Karma has been to Rally/Obedience Classes, 
Quinnie has been to Rally/Obedience Classes, has a Rally title
Ramona, two class sessions, she'll be back. 
Kojak has been to classes, but they were suspended due to car-sickness. He'll be back. 
Tinny is in classes now. 

2 out of sixteen is not bad. Hepsi has very poor hips. I've taken her places and she is safe around kids, not an idiot around dogs, but I have no need to put her through classes. She can relax at home. And Cujo. When I got him back, I was working with Moofie and getting Moofie titled. After Moofie died, I was working with Quinn. Right now my projects are Kojak, Ramona, and Tinny, though I think Quinnie might be my next obedience dog. We'll see. The other problem is working second shift. That eliminates all evening classes, and pretty much all other classes, save Saturdays, when we aren't working OT. 

Quinnie was signed up for two sets of classes -- puppy classes, which she made it to four of the six. We missed one because I had to work that day, and the other because I was getting Mufasa's title that day. In her second set of Saturday classes a few months later, we made it to 4 of the six, because of work. A year later, I signed her up for the summer classes, but she went into heat so I had to sub in Jenna, Ramona, and Heidi. 

Karma was in classes until I stepped on her toe and broke it. By the time her toe was better, I was already working with Lassie. Just the way the cookie crumbles. All of them have excellent recall. 

It's a balancing act.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Bottom line, your dog OP, ran from your house to you and your neighbor while you two were calmly talking, then jumped on him barking and either bit him or scratched him (the second scenario being something I personally don't believe for a second), and you claim to have been momentarily distracted? Hmm... If you're that distactable, maybe you shouldn't own a big dog! Maybe you should stop weaseling out of your role and just admit the HUGE mistake you made! I've had dogs that have appropriately bitten people, and I don't make apologies for that EVER! Regardless of the law, or the insinuations others make. But in the case you outlined, your dog acted totally innapropriately, and you -who unless asleep- had to have clearly seen that coming, if you can read your dog at all. So yeah, not much sympathy here...

Manage your dog responsibly and this kind of thing doesn't EVER happen...end of story.

I've been on the receiving end of GSD aggression several times, and I can tell you - even as an avid GSD lover- it's always frightening and painful, so yeah, if you own one, don't let this happen...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you were distreacted in the moment -- but you were blind to your neighbour and the big-picture

the dog doesn't sound "bad" -- this was all about management.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Good news that AC may drop the case!

The first thing I would sternly "cure" is the jumping up on people thing!! 
A few years ago, our friend group talked a lot about a horrible incident...her dad (elderly man) was walking with her daughter one fall afternoon. A dog ran out of its yard and jumped on him. He fell, and BROKE HIS HIP. We all were shocked that the owner did not offer to help with medical expenses, and we suggested that they could have sued the dog's owner. The daughter was so traumatized that she was out of school for a few days. The Jumping on People thing, with a big dog, has to be taken seriously.

Last thought is that yes, people are afraid of large wolflike dogs (it seems your neighbor certainly was). Just yesterday, a man getting into his truck asked me nervously, "Does your dog bite?" I was so surprised, I couldn't answer for a moment while I looked at Rumo (snuffling in a bush). And a woman once called at me, "My mother is afraid of your dog!" I took a fork in the path so they wouldn't have to pass us. So with a big 'scary' dog, I have felt there is this extra responsibility to keep it leashed, under control, calm. It is not their fault that they are afraid - I think it is our responsibility to keep people from feeling threatened.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

This has gone the direction of slight infighting as it always does, which usually chases the person who needs help away. Who cares whose dog chased a horse once? They are ANIMALS and we are HUMANS.

Whoever has never misjudged a dog's (or kid's) level of discipline, or their "management" set up, in their years of ownership, cast the first stone, please.

OP you have to understand when you go to a forum it is anonymous for the most part and people can only judge what you are describing on what they have actually seen in life. It's all supposition. Which is why when I had a serious problem, I did not even bother asking strangers to give me advice on such a strong issue, sight unseen. It can only muddy my head while trying to deal with a potentially serious situation. My dog won't heel nicely? Fine, ask the internet. Other than minor issues, take everything you read here as people's own personal prejudices due to experience surfacing. Because you said "pup" you bore the full brunt of disdain among working breed owners of the Furbaby Movement lol. I call all dogs pooch. I am not a furbaby person.

To one person you are that [email protected]*$ that let a dog chase their horse and scare them, also you are the person giving our breed a bad name because he confronted a neighbor and opened an AC case. So now that we have hashed out the source of all the hostility...that is what you get on a forum. Thick skin, grain of salt, and you can learn from others' experiences here. Filter out the other stuff without needing to announce you are filtering it out. It will enhance your forum experience.

You made a mistake. We have all made mistakes. You have a trainer- excellent! I can tell from your tone that you are in the land of "now I know and I won't let it happen again". Like I said anyone here who claims over the life of their dog experience has not made a similar misjudgment is lying. 

SO the questions I asked earlier, which I would like to know to file in my own experience bank...how is he with your wife? Is his behavior on the end of her lead concerning? Like, does he jump, bark, posture? 

Just trying to get into your neighbor's head to see why he had a problem in the first place. Some people actually do just hate GSDs or other protection breeds and go out of their way to provoke behaviors that enable them to to say "see I told you so". Now you know your dog is "provokable." Can't say if it is easily or not without having eyes on the dog or the neighbor. So you tell us.

Sometimes in life we are granted our lessons that are relatively painless, giving us 2nd chances. Glad AC is likely dropping it.

And really , none of us are perfect and none of our dogs are perfect. They aren't cars we dropped a lot of coin on that we expect to have a guarantee of infallibility. With experience you start to read your dogs, and your ego drops to the point where you feel ok saying "I have to manage this or that" with my dog. People will always say "he is bombproof!" ...but can't be trusted out of a kennel when the driver of the dog isn't home. Or can't be off lead around certain situations.

I think because of reputation, wars, and Hollywood this breed in particular has high expectations to live up to, but that is Hollywood for you. A lot of them have issues no matter how well bred they are, the same way not every Collie will fetch a kid out of the well 

Enjoy your dog, you now know that despite a year of being ok with it, he can't be off lead unfenced, enjoy the training, and make sure you have a breed familiar well known and well regarded trainer and listen to what he says above all else.

Glad you stuck around too


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

oldun said:


> Animal Resources have reviewed the situation, and will possibly drop the case. We will definitely be more aware now.


Knowing how AC dangerous dog proceedings work in my region, I would _strongly _advise you to hire a defense lawyer specializing in dog bites to figure out whether that person can help this along by going and conferring with the Director of AC. If they're leaning toward dismissing the case, a good lawyer can sometimes help get them there. 

They would still keep the bite record on file then -- which means it can still be used against the dog in the future, and you still have insurance obligations to report it potentially), but without all the extra legal burden of the DD designation (signs, muzzle, etc.). That means you will still ALWAYS have to manage the dog well -- that won't change.

If they don't drop it, and it goes to a hearing, having a lawyer there is VERY important. The hearing is not exactly court: it's usually an administrative decision in a conference room, but witnesses are heard and records reviewed in an informal setting. The AC Director usually presides (but sometimes it's a panel, with a vet and a member of the community selected by the AC director, for example). Findings get made that get deference in future proceedings, so it's very important that they be correct. There's a small window to appeal the administrative hearing to an actual court too in most places.


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## oldun (Feb 20, 2017)

CometDog said:


> This has gone the direction of slight infighting as it always does, which usually chases the person who needs help away. Who cares whose dog chased a horse once? They are ANIMALS and we are HUMANS.
> 
> Whoever has never misjudged a dog's (or kid's) level of discipline, or their "management" set up, in their years of ownership, cast the first stone, please.



I will be the first to admit it. I MESSED UP BIG.




> You made a mistake. We have all made mistakes. You have a trainer- excellent! I can tell from your tone that you are in the land of "now I know and I won't let it happen again". Like I said anyone here who claims over the life of their dog experience has not made a similar misjudgment is lying.


Very much agreed




> SO the questions I asked earlier, which I would like to know to file in my own experience bank...how is he with your wife? Is his behavior on the end of her lead concerning? Like, does he jump, bark, posture?


Prior to attending training (yes we BOTH go), my wife really had no idea of heeling. So the dog was wandering around, nose to the ground, ears perking up at new sounds, etc




> Just trying to get into your neighbor's head to see why he had a problem in the first place. Some people actually do just hate GSDs or other protection breeds and go out of their way to provoke behaviors that enable them to to say "see I told you so". Now you know your dog is "provokable." Can't say if it is easily or not without having eyes on the dog or the neighbor. So you tell us.


Before, I never would have though him "provokable", but now, obviously, I need to be more observant and question that.





> Enjoy your dog, you now know that despite a year of being ok with it, he can't be off lead unfenced, enjoy the training, and make sure you have a breed familiar well known and well regarded trainer and listen to what he says above all else.
> 
> Glad you stuck around too


Thanks, Comet. Your viewpoint is greatly appreciated.


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## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

CometDog said:


> This has gone the direction of slight infighting as it always does, which usually chases the person who needs help away. Who cares whose dog chased a horse once? They are ANIMALS and we are HUMANS.
> 
> Whoever has never misjudged a dog's (or kid's) level of discipline, or their "management" set up, in their years of ownership, cast the first stone, please.
> 
> ...


 I agree 100%.......It was crystal clear to me from the start the OP knew he messed up....HE SAID SO !.....he's had some good advice on some posts.....and others simply stating what he already knows....he messed up....he was looking for advice from someone who'd been in his shoes and/or what he should expect moving forward....it doesn't sound like the end of the world to me at this point.....--the dog will have to be kept in a fence or on a leash while on your property... mine are anyway and I have acreage......this was a mistake the Op won't make again--it's clear to me he's learned from this....so let him up for air......He's owned this from his first post.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

This thread will be read for years by other people searching for similar advice. Posts aren’t just for the OP, they are for others who might read it but never post. It’s important that all angles are covered. Just because advice isn’t given nicely doesn't mean it can’t be useful for someone else. This forum provides an important service for the dog community, beyond the person asking for inputs.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

OP should be thankful it was his neighbor and not a little kid... bite or scratch or whatever a big dog rushing a child like how he did would get him PTS. Whenever I'm out with my dogs I think about all the potentials that could be around us... might just be our front yard but the neighbors dog might be out, or their cats, or their grandkids.... I am constantly on alert and ready to recall if something arises.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Gandalf, I laughed at your signature quote. That is something I should use. My dogs are always alert to squirrels.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> This thread will be read for years by other people searching for similar advice. Posts aren’t just for the OP, they are for others who might read it but never post. It’s important that all angles are covered. Just because advice isn’t given nicely doesn't mean it can’t be useful for someone else. This forum provides an important service for the dog community, beyond the person asking for inputs.


Yes well that is a good point too. However, people jump to solutions over a post face value. It would be useful to garner more information first in a non confrontational way. A lot of people that are inexperience completely misinterpret then misrepresent what happened when it comes to dogs. People will say he bit a child when it was land sharking. People will say he is aggressive towards strangers when it is really fear. People will say he growls at family members when it is really vocalizations that are not aggressive. 

Even the offshoot about the horse chasing..proves it happens to the best of us. On horses behaving unexpectedly- we had a solid quarter horse named Scooty. Had been professionally trained, was a fantastic horse for kids and new people. Played with a milk jug with you as if he was a dog playing fetch. Lovely horse. The type would you put a kid on for the first time. Years of my little brothers sitting on him bareback. One day, the neighbor across the street who was 15 and an experienced rider (she did jump competition since age 10 ) was riding him for the umpteenth time since we got him and Scooty had a freak out, went through a wooden log type fence with her on his back, then immediately calmed down. She broke her femur. Something spooked him? He had never in his history spooked before. Who knows?

The lesson here to anyone is always pay attention, learn about the animal you are responsible for. And if they are under whatever age where they seem mature (like..oh..3 lol) understand that they are not "finished" yet and new behaviors can pop up and old ones can go away.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

" I'd be interested to know why he has a problem with horses, but he does, and I am not overly concerned with it. "

Off topic but as an equestrian I am very concerned about it. I am not saying this to you Selzer, you control the dog. I am saying it to this forum. Please be very careful when horse and riders are passing on the road or trail. Horses are flight animals. To them a lunging GSD appears to be a wolf. 

OP why don't you build a high fence around your property and with a double gateway to get to the car? No way could the dog run out that way.


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