# What's Your Protection Gear Walking Your GSD?



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

When my Zeus was a puppy or a young dog we were attacked so often by other dogs on our walks that I went to some trouble to carry a variety of things to either ward off an attack, disable an attacking do or terminate the attacking animal (and even had some measures for the irate owner of the injured animal if he chose to press a fight).

But Zeus is now 3 and quite formidable. Those neighborhood dogs that once routinely charged him are now quite wary (but for one) and most don't even bark at us anymore when we pass (pepper spray works wonders on dogs memories).

So, I trying to scale down what we used to carry to something that fits neatly and legally on my left wrist (the dog heels to left and I hold the leash in the right hand). I've succeeded in coming up with a left-wrist contraption which holds a small air horn, a small can of pepper spray and a self-deploying Gerber folding knife. 

But I'm looking for a way to integrate a derringer into the mix if something has to be shot to protect the dog and me. Problem is they're pretty large and bulky.

I'd still like it all to be on my left wrist. But the whole thing's getting pretty unwieldy. Anyone know how to tuck a derringer into a wrist rig?

Any ideas? Anyone? Maybe a custom glove?

Best,

LF


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> When my Zeus was a puppy or a young dog we were attacked so often by other dogs on our walks that I went to some trouble to carry a variety of things to either ward off an attack, disable an attacking do or terminate the attacking animal (and even had some measures for the irate owner of the injured animal if he chose to press a fight).
> 
> But Zeus is now 3 and quite formidable. Those neighborhood dogs that once routinely charged him are now quite wary (but for one) and most don't even bark at us anymore when we pass (pepper spray works wonders on dogs memories).
> 
> ...


I've been thinking about this also. I just purchased a waist belt with a safety to carry. From what I've read - all I have to go on. There is enough time, and you should take the time before you decide to use deadly force. Safety first IMO - when you make that decision, you want to have exhausted your other resources if you can. No knee jerk reactions are ever allowed with a gun....


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

where in the world do you live? I carry nothing.... never have.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Rural Texas*



Fodder said:


> where in the world do you live? I carry nothing.... never have.


Ummm, rural Texas north of Houston.

**this comment was a bit political so to avoid what will come next in the responses it was removed by ADMIN**

Best,

LF


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I lived in Kingsville, TX for a few years. Where I live now, North Idaho - loves the Texas ways. The rest of the USA according to these two area IMO, are not savvy how to deal with a certain death/severe injury to their animal and how they need to be prepared to prevent it when they are able......


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> I lived in Kingsville, TX for a few years. Where I live now, North Idaho - loves the Texas ways. The rest of the USA according to these two area IMO, are not savvy* how to deal with a certain death/severe injury to their animal and how they need to be prepared to prevent it when they are able..*....


We should not have to.


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## truckola (Nov 3, 2013)

We shouldn't have too, but the reality is there is evil about, mainly 2 legged, just watch the news.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

truckola said:


> We shouldn't have too, but the reality is there is evil about, mainly 2 legged, just watch the news.


I would have never considered deadly force a dozen years ago, however - I've seen too many people and their pets become victims. Standing there, in their utopian world, suddenly confronted with a life or death problem and THEN they realize - waiting 20-30 minutes for law enforcement to show up is a stupid way to think in this day and age....


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

truckola said:


> We shouldn't have too, but the reality is there is evil about, mainly 2 legged, just watch the news.


Fortunately, I have not really encountered this, at least not with my GSDs. Alone might be different.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm currently carrying a Ka-Bar Kraton Handled Big Brother Bowie (9"+ blade, 14"+ overall length) in practice for becoming a Mountain Man one day...ha! Not very compact, but I'm sure it will do whatever I need it to do, whenever I need it to. My concealed gun license expired from Oregon, which covered me once we moved to Idaho. Now I'm working to get an ID license, especially with all of the craziness happening in the world. Eventually I'll purchase the BK39 from Ka-Bar, and the dream is to own a real, authentic-looking Bowie knife to go along with my .357 magnum, 7-shot, snub-nose Taurus revolver.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

counter said:


> I'm currently carrying a Ka-Bar Kraton Handled Big Brother Bowie (9"+ blade, 14"+ overall length) in practice for becoming a Mountain Man one day...ha! Not very compact, but I'm sure it will do whatever I need it to do, whenever I need it to. My concealed gun license expired from Oregon, which covered me once we moved to Idaho. Now I'm working to get an ID license, especially with all of the craziness happening in the world. Eventually I'll purchase the BK39 from Ka-Bar, and the dream is to own a real, authentic-looking Bowie knife to go along with my .357 magnum, 7-shot, snub-nose Taurus revolver.


Ha! I revise my comment about Texas and North Idaho.... ALL Idaho


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

...but I also refuse to live in fear or on edge expecting danger to be lurking around every corner. call it stupid or naive if you want. confidence and positive energy have taken me far. not to put you on the spot Stone, but I'm truly saddened when I hear/read things like being afraid to walk your dog in your own neighborhood because of a stray dog. I can't imagine living like that. I just can't.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Stonevintage said:


> Ha! I revise my comment about Texas and North Idaho.... ALL Idaho


Like Kylo Ren is supposedly a Darth Vader fanboy, well, I'm a Daniel Boone, Jim Bowie and David Crockett fanboy you could say.

To go with my Bowie knife, my other dream is to one day afford this in .45 Long Colt:










This is the Magnum Research BFR (Biggest Finest Revolver), from the same makers who bring us the Desert Eagle.

This gun will complete my turn to the Mountain Man-side, patrolling the perimeter of my 100 acres of farmland or forest/mountain dream property one day. Ha!


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I Carry a 45 everywhere I go. It has nothing to do with fear. Just a precaution. I relate it to wearing a seat belt. I hope to God that I will never need it. But in the instance I do. I want to make sure I have it. 
As far as walking my dog. I don't take any special precaution. I figure that I can keep any dogs off my pup myself. I suppose if I felt like I was in imminent danger from a big aggressive dog I may shoot it. Maybe a quality walking stick would be best. If a solid smack to the noggin doesn't stop them then I suppose I could justify to myself putting them down.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Fodder said:


> ...but I also refuse to live in fear or on edge expecting danger to be lurking around every corner. call it stupid or naive if you want. confidence and positive energy have taken me far. not to put you on the spot Stone, but I'm truly saddened when I hear/read things like being afraid to walk your dog in your own neighborhood because of a stray dog. I can't imagine living like that. I just can't.


Agreed. To defend my dogs or family from a stray dog, all I need is my hands. I've had to use them many times against random off leash dogs. Most all of my stories have been posted about in detail on this forum. It would have to escalate A LOT for me to ever need to stab or shoot a dog or person...A LOT. I hope that day never comes, but just in case, I'm an Eagle Scout for a reason: BE PREPARED! I'm always prepared for the worst and always hope for and expect the best.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Fodder said:


> ...but I also refuse to live in fear or on edge expecting danger to be lurking around every corner. call it stupid or naive if you want. confidence and positive energy have taken me far. not to put you on the spot Stone, but I'm truly saddened when I hear/read things like being afraid to walk your dog in your own neighborhood because of a stray dog. I can't imagine living like that. I just can't.


I hear you Fodder. I don't know what to say.... When I got Summer 18 months ago, it was all good. In the last 8 months, 8 PB's now live within a 2 block radius. Young owners in low rent duplexes that allow dogs. What am I to do? I'm 61 years old and will not be picking up a handy 2x4 if the event arises. I have lived in many states and many towns and cities and there really, looking back was never a place that I shouldn't have been prepared to defend myself and mine..... I don't see that as lessening as time goes on.... not the best way to live, but a responsible way to live IMO.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The only time I carry anything and it's just pepper spray has been when I walk any dog that is recovering from an FHO, spay/neuter etc and that is for coyotes. Otherwise I carry nothing. I've had dogs charge at us but was able on both occasions to keep all dogs and myself safe with no injuries. All three dogs were put bulls, one occasion was two of them together, that was a little more difficult but it turned out ok.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Fodder said:


> ...but I also refuse to live in fear or on edge expecting danger to be lurking around every corner. call it stupid or naive if you want. confidence and positive energy have taken me far. not to put you on the spot Stone, but I'm truly saddened when I hear/read things like being afraid to walk your dog in your own neighborhood because of a stray dog. I can't imagine living like that. I just can't.


What is worthwhile to keep in mind if one person is living in fear to walk their dog, an entire community most likely is, that's a lot of people. 

When people are afraid to walk their dogs in their community, rest assured many people are fearful of their children playing in those neighborhoods as well.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

This thread is making me appreciate my boring,sleepy,little burg.The only violence is the occasional bar fights


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

llombardo said:


> The only time I carry anything and it's just pepper spray has been when I walk any dog that is recovering from an FHO, spay/neuter etc and that is for coyotes. Otherwise I carry nothing. I've had dogs charge at us but was able on both occasions to keep all dogs and myself safe with no injuries. All three dogs were put bulls, one occasion was two of them together, that was a little more difficult but it turned out ok.


You must have a very awesome presence about you. I've never heard about a positive attitude having a repelling effect against a pitbull attack....


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> You must have a very awesome presence about you. I've never heard about a positive attitude having a repelling effect against a pitbull attack....


Never saw a charging Pit Bull stop until it made physical contact with its intended target.


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## GSDKIMBER (Jan 9, 2015)

In case the stray dog doesn't listen to the "no bite zone" stickers


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

no but a positive attitude can do things like keep your head clear, remain calm, allow you to read/assess situations better, it can keep your dog calmer, appropriate your responses, etc etc...

surely there are "attacking pitbulls" with bad intent regardless, we hear stories all the time but there are also charging dogs that are aggravated by ours or our dogs reactions... not to mention a variety of other non aggressive off leash encounters. the latter will always be the majority.

not discounting anyone's experiences or their perceived need for protection.... I'm just surprised a little by the topic and expressing my view.

carry on... 
(pun intended)


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

GSDKIMBER said:


> In case the stray dog doesn't listen to the "no bite zone" stickers


Sad to think it's come to this. But, to ignore and count on others to take care of the problem for you in time - no longer seems to be an option. Things are different - there's a need now and it isn't just going to go away or not happen in our world.... survivors or sheep, it's every American's choice, our daily lives and precautions are different than in the past.....


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Fortunately, I have not really encountered this, at least not with my GSDs. Alone might be different.


I live in a ghetto part of Houston. Yesterday when I got home from work i was walking my husky and female doberman and a man walking down the street in our direction suddenly pulled out a large stick object and waved it at my dogs(who were doing nothing and were calm and under control on leash) and he yelled "i dont f*cking think so. i will f*ck you mother f*ckers up" among other threats of violence towards them and then cussed at me, for no GD reason. It obviously doesn't matter what is on the other end of your leash if you encounter a crazy enough person. I am a 105 lb woman. I don't have a gun yet but I make sure to carry something to record with and a sharp object at least where i live.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> I live in a ghetto part of Houston. Yesterday when I got home from work i was walking my husky and female doberman and a man walking down the street in our direction suddenly pulled out a large stick object and waved it at my dogs(who were doing nothing and were calm and under control on leash) and he yelled "i dont f*cking think so. i will f*ck you mother f*ckers up" among other threats of violence towards them and then cussed at me, for no GD reason. It obviously doesn't matter what is on the other end of your leash if you encounter a crazy enough person. I am a 105 lb woman. I don't have a gun yet but I make sure to carry something to record with and a sharp object at least where i live.


Rule #1 - don't **** with crazy. That guy, had you been walking without the dogs - as psychotic as he was - may have been a threat to you walking by....


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Stonevintage said:


> Rule #1 - don't **** with crazy. That guy, had you been walking without the dogs - as psychotic as he was - may have been a threat to you walking by....


Exactly. That can't be reasoned with. Unfortunately that behavior is common around here.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Exactly. That can't be reasoned with. Unfortunately that behavior is common around here.


I'm just now having this discussion with someone else. I got the heck out of that kind of daily life. Took a 40% cut in pay to do it but never any regret for the quality of life gained. It's worth considering. No one is ever locked in anywhere. This is still America and if you're concerned because you have grown up there - don't be, that's just a wall you built, means nothing in reality. Look to your GSD and how they adapt, it's totally there for you if you want it


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Stonevintage said:


> You must have a very awesome presence about you. I've never heard about a positive attitude having a repelling effect against a pitbull attack....


You have to move fast and think quick. The one could have ended badly. I have never moved as fast as I did that day before or since then. The lady that lost control of the dogs ended up flat on her face and broke her leg(she had crutches after that day--so broke, fractured, sprained) I also had two dogs, so I managed to keep 4 large dogs separated and believe me when I say they all wanted to kill each other. I still can't believe no one called the cops, it lasted a while and it was loud and vicious. I blame the owner, she had no control over them and should not have been walking them. She was my neighbor. After that she was more then willing to cooperate with rotating when the dogs went out so they never saw each other again. The other pit that charged, ran with its tail between its legs when my lab responded.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

llombardo said:


> You have to move fast and think quick. The one could have ended badly. I have never moved as fast as I did that day before or since then. The lady that lost control of the dogs ended up flat on her face and broke her leg(she had crutches after that day--so broke, fractured, sprained) I also had two dogs, so I managed to keep 4 large dogs separated and believe me when I say they all wanted to kill each other. I still can't believe no one called the cops, it lasted a while and it was loud and vicious. I blame the owner, she had no control over them and should not have been walking them. She was my neighbor. After that she was more then willing to cooperate with rotating when the dogs went out so they never saw each other again. The other pit that charged, ran with its tail between its legs when my lab responded.


I guess, that you can make your judgments by your own personal 2 or 3 encounters. But, please understand that there are other experiences that are not as mild as yours. This is a larger problem that IMO cannot be discounted by your experience. It's just not that way in a densely populated town or city. You are alerted, in your area by coyotes... that is a problem in the western states but the PB threat is more common.....


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Stonevintage said:


> I guess, that you can make your judgments by your own personal 2 or 3 encounters. But, please understand that there are other experiences that are not as mild as yours. This is a larger problem that IMO cannot be discounted by your experience. It's just not that way in a densely populated town or city. You are alerted, in your area by coyotes... that is a problem in the western states but the PB threat is more common.....


Make judgements? I'm not making judgements at all. I choose not to carry a weapon, it's as simple as that. If others feel the need and it makes them feel safer, go for it. Pit bulls are everywhere around me, always have been. The sheriff just picked one up down the block last week, but she was a friendly little girl. One killed a woman less then a mile from me. I come across lots of pit bulls, for the most part they mind their business, so I can't really complain. Out of all the pit bull encounters, there was only one bad one. I watch my surroundings and stay alert at all times. If I thought about it every time I walked my dogs or went hiking or went to the pet store my dogs would live in a bubble, because there are pit bulls everywhere we go. The only reason I worry about a coyote with a recovering dog is because if I have to throw my dog out of the way I don't want to do any damage to my dog. If I'm walking a healthy dog, I do not carry pepper spray. Coyotes are everywhere and I've never had a problem with them either.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

llombardo said:


> Make judgements? I'm not making judgements at all. I choose not to carry a weapon, it's as simple as that. If others feel the need and it makes them feel safer, go for it. Pit bulls are everywhere around me, always have been. The sheriff just picked one up down the block last week, but she was a friendly little girl. One killed a woman less then a mile from me. I come across lots of pit bulls, for the most part they mind their business, so I can't really complain. Out of all the pit bull encounters, there was only one bad one. I watch my surroundings and stay alert at all times. If I thought about it every time I walked my dogs or went hiking or went to the pet store my dogs would live in a bubble, because there are pit bulls everywhere we go. The only reason I worry about a coyote with a recovering dog is because if I have to throw my dog out of the way I don't want to do any damage to my dog. If I'm walking a healthy dog, I do not carry pepper spray. Coyotes are everywhere and I've never had a problem with them either.


This conversation was about what weapons we carry and guns. Then you begin your comments. I took those as to mean that you disagreed with what others have posted. You state you don't carry any defense and that's certainly your choice. You also seem to state that you don't see the need. Apparently, in your world - there will never be a problem for you and your dogs with the concerns we are talking about. But, then you say that a mile from your house a PB killed a woman. That would sure make me feel like I shouldn't ever carry protection........??? Nevermind.....


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Fodder said:


> no but a positive attitude can do things like keep your head clear, remain calm, allow you to read/assess situations better, it can keep your dog calmer, appropriate your responses, etc etc...
> 
> surely there are "attacking pitbulls" with bad intent regardless, we hear stories all the time but there are also charging dogs that are aggravated by ours or our dogs reactions... not to mention a variety of other non aggressive off leash encounters. the latter will always be the majority.
> 
> ...


Fodder - with me, it's not the casual encounters and sometimes dog fights that your leashed GSD will encounter with stray dogs. This is different IMO with PB's only in the way that they fight. It's different than most dogs. There is no difference with any other dog IMO until they bite and latch on and you can mortally wound them and they will not release that original grip. That's the problem.

My friend's husband has worked for our local animal control for 8 years now. His worst encounters on calls are between PB's and a dog like the GSD that does not just lay down and die but tries to fight back. The neck hold by a PB and the fighting style of a GSD causes the GSD to have his face literally ripped off in prolonged fights before LE and animal control can respond. A GSD still fighting for his life with his skin that used to cover his face, his ears in the same skin sack that is in the Pit's grip is what makes this something different.....


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

All I'm getting from this thread is that I should never consider living in Texas.

Pure insanity.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes this is not the norm. This makes the USA sound more like a third world country. My sister taught in schools in the dominican republic for awhile. Dogs over ran the streets she never saw anything like it. America is sure fighting to be america these days. People should not be afraid to walk their dog down the street without carrying a weapon. How do kids go to the bus stop without being worried about getting attacked by dogs? Is there petitions that can be made complaints to the town/ state or grants that can be given or maybe go on the news make a lot of noise. Of course going for daily walks anyone may encounter a loose dog but if you feel you are in great danger on a daily basis taking your dog out for a walk it is very sad and no one should live like that and not everyone has to.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Jenny720 said:


> How do kids go to the bus stop without being worried about getting attacked by dogs?


My front door is but 150 yards from the front door of an elementary school. I've seen and I've stopped several menacing and vicious dogs from attacking the children who walk to that school.

Immediately across the street from me is a couple who at one count had 16 dogs of all sorts and two very menacing Great Pyrenees who scared the **** of the little kids who walk between our two houses. They bark and jostle the gate as if they want to eat the kids.

I've been here for almost 30 years. They moved in after we were here about a decade. Since I came to believe those dogs endangered the kids (about a week after they moved in) I've kept a loaded 12 gauge in reach (we don't have kids).

I'm glad some of you live in such placid places. Your walks must be enjoyable. But for me and Zeus walks sometimes resemble gauntlets. I'm constantly scanning for strays or off-leash dogs. If a garage door opener suddenly starts up I pull Zeus close. If I hear a bark somewhere ahead but can't immediately see a dog I pull the air horn out. If I pass two houses near my home where the dogs chew holes in the cedar fencing I have the pepper spray out.

But if I see two or more dogs in a pack, I switch the leash to my left hand and unzip my pistol bag with my right and then grasp the grip of my .45 (I carry legally).

It's that complicated procedure that I'm trying to eliminate by getting a derringer. A two round .22 should do the trick. I jut can't figure out a way to mount it to the little rig I already carry on my left wrist.

But then, maybe I'm worrying about this too much now. On January 1st here in Texas we go to an open-carry status. I could just shoulder holster my .45.

Best,

LF


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes very enjoyable walks now will never be unappreciated. This is terrible. We have to many things to be worried about. I just think packs of loose dogs does not need to be one of them and can be one thing that can be controlled. For the safety of the public the state or states should be ashamed for not addressing this matter.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Jenny720 said:


> Yes very enjoyable walks now will never be unappreciated. This is terrible. We have to many things to be worried about. I just think packs of loose dogs does not need to be one of them and can be one thing that can be controlled. For the safety of the public the state or states should be ashamed for not addressing this matter.


When I was a kid if you left your dog loose roaming the neighborhood the dog catcher would quickly pick it up and take it to the kill shelter. The cost of retrieving your dog from the shelter paid for the dog catcher's salary and supplies.

For some reason, that system is no longer in force around here. So, the cops are the only one's who seem available to handle a menacing dog. And, mostly they just shoot them.

Stupid.

Best,

LF


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Absolutely crazy.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

yuriy said:


> All I'm getting from this thread is that I should never consider living in Texas.
> 
> Pure insanity.


We have the legal right to shoot people that come on to our property. 

Houston is the 4th largest city. In any large city you will find all walks of life.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Fodder said:


> ...but I also refuse to live in fear or on edge expecting danger to be lurking around every corner. call it stupid or naive if you want. confidence and positive energy have taken me far. not to put you on the spot Stone, but I'm truly saddened when I hear/read things like being afraid to walk your dog in your own neighborhood because of a stray dog. I can't imagine living like that. I just can't.


I can't either. I do pay attention to my surroundings, if I would see a stray dog I would be alert to it's actions. I guess I take my little Midwestern town for granted.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

I've always liked the motto *"it's better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it."*

I've always been able to use my own two hands to keep loose, aggressive dogs away from us while we're walking. I trust in my own skills, instincts and abilities to continue doing this. I'm also a younger, stronger, quicker man than some of the people posting on here. If I was an older lady, or even an older man, I might think differently. I know at my age my body is not the same as it was when I was in my 20s (I'm 40 now, soon to be 41). I still run long distances and lift weights daily, but my body just doesn't heal or recuperate like it once did, and that bothers me. I know it's a part of getting older, but I can't imagine how life will be in my 60s if I'm like this in my 40s.

On walks, I've always figured that my dogs will be able to take care of themselves if I can't help them, but so far I've done my job and kept them safe from charging dogs, so they haven't needed to defend me or themselves. *This isn't an Idaho or Texas problem. We had issues with crazy people and off leash dogs in Virginia, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Idaho and any other place we've been while walking our dogs. I think this is just a "human" or "life" problem that anyone can encounter anywhere.* There are irresponsible dog owners anywhere you go. You can read all about it on this very forum where people post from all 50 US states and from around the world about the encounters they have at parks, dog parks, forests, neighborhoods, etc.

*I will admit though, I cringe anytime I read one of those stories about a human shooting someone else's dog. I always think back to my experiences and wonder if the shooting was the last resort or the first resort. It should always be the last resort, but I think a lot of times, people think it's the main or only resort and don't attempt to try a different, or many different, methods first to break up the dogs or scare away the aggressor.*


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Longfisher said:


> When my Zeus was a puppy or a young dog we were attacked so often by other dogs on our walks that I went to some trouble to carry a variety of things to either ward off an attack, disable an attacking do or terminate the attacking animal (and even had some measures for the irate owner of the injured animal if he chose to press a fight).
> 
> But Zeus is now 3 and quite formidable. Those neighborhood dogs that once routinely charged him are now quite wary (but for one) and most don't even bark at us anymore when we pass (pepper spray works wonders on dogs memories).
> 
> ...


What you need to do is become an international spy. Then you get access to all the cool stuff like cell phones that shoot darts.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Lol!Bond.....LF Bond


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Right to Shoot People on Our Property?*



MustLoveGSDs said:


> We have the legal right to shoot people that come on to our property.
> 
> Houston is the 4th largest city. In any large city you will find all walks of life.


OK. I don't want to start an argument here over the use of deadly force, but, I want to emphasize that even in Texas one can't use deadly force as capriciously as the quoted poster's words might suggest without serious consequences up to and including lethal injection if the courts judge the shooting to be murder in the 1st or 2nd degree.

Texas is perhaps increasingly dangerous and gun-oriented. But it's not the wild west, yet.

Best,

LF


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

This may be a better match then Bond:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYCgq8q9Ofw



> Half science fiction and half western, Artemus Gordon designs a series of interesting gadgets for James that would make Inspector Gadget proud.


And James always gets to pick the Ice Cream. Every episode.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Do you suppose that what is driving the people who have pit bulls is the same thing the same apprehension that is driving people who arm themselves with guns and knives?

When I lived in Wyoming, bullies were not common. We did get accosted by a wide variety of dogs. When we were in town, it was apparent that people had little clue as to dogs, what a bark meant etc. A few years before, it had gone through a boom and had some bad experiences with dogs.

What do I carry? Myself. There is no way if under attack that I could manage to reach a gun or knife and use it to dissuade the other dog(s) without injuring my dogs, myself or someone else that was not the intended target. It would require that I make the determination that a dog was a serious "meant to engage" threat quite a while before they reached us. That doesn't sound justified to me.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I don't carry anything but I should. We have a lot of loose dogs and the owners refuse to do anything about it. I've called AC and sometimes it works. I rescued a neighbor's puppy that was being attacked by a large dog that was loose. The puppy owner didn't understand aggression and didn't turn and leave the area when she saw a loose dog. I'm always looking out on walks and when I see one, I go a different direction so we never come in contact. When I went to to talk to the other dogs owner, the teen who answered the door said, our dog is old, it's the other dogs fault. The puppy owner refused to call AC.

We have leash laws and I always ask people to leash their dogs. I've been called names and told to shut up. One older lady whose dogs had tried to attack my large male GSD previously, screamed at me and said I ruined her day. People can be out of their minds.

I'm thinking about carrying a big stick, but I'm want my hands free.


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## Rolisaac (Apr 16, 2015)

I like living in the country. Fewer crazy people to deal with . .we do have strays around, but they are usually hit by a car before they are around for long. For some reason people think it OK to drive 55 + around curves marked 30. 
There is a river and a waterfall with a few miles of trail nearby. I will not go there alone or unprotected. I haven't met any stray dogs there (even though I've heard people think rivers are great places to dump dogs because they will be able to get water, ugh) I worry about the people that like to party and what not. Most of the time I see police and DNR around, but people seem to know when they aren't around.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Counter, just to walk your dog?
I carry Direct Stop and my attitude. That is sufficient for our area, thankfully.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> This may be a better match then Bond:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYCgq8q9Ofw
> 
> ...


OMG!Forgot about that show!Back when I was in grade school


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> My friend's husband has worked for our local animal control for 8 years now. His worst encounters on calls are between PB's and a dog like the GSD that does not just lay down and die but tries to fight back. The neck hold by a PB and the fighting style of a GSD causes the GSD to have his face literally ripped off in prolonged fights before LE and animal control can respond. A GSD still fighting for his life with his skin that used to cover his face, his ears in the same skin sack that is in the Pit's grip is what makes this something different.....


How awful! That poor GSD! I remember the young SAR German Shepherd that had his rear leg ripped off by Pit Bulls ending his career, and it is not uncommon to see a German Shepherd's ears ripped of by attacking Pit Bulls!



Jenny720 said:


> How do kids go to the bus stop without being worried about getting attacked by dogs? Is there petitions that can be made complaints to the town/ state or grants that can be given or maybe go on the news make a lot of noise. Of course going for daily walks anyone may encounter a loose dog but if you feel you are in great danger on a daily basis taking your dog out for a walk it is very sad and no one should live like that and not everyone has to.


There is nothing new about Pit Bulls attacking children walking to, or waiting for, school busses or getting off of them. The news abounds with such stories, they are nothing unusual. What is unusual is that our lawmakers are doing nothing to protect our children's safety. 

Many states have actually gone in the opposite direction by enacting laws prohibiting or restricting BSL targeting Pit Bulls. Michigan is one that has just such a bill awaiting a final vote. The whole country is watching this bill as just a few days ago a 4 year old child was ripped from his mother's grip and dragged under a fence by four Pit Bulls who killed and disemboweled this child before starting to eat him as the mother and good Samaritans tried to help in Detroit Michigan.

The very next day a young mother was mauled to death by having her ears ripped off and her throat tore out by a Pit Bull and a Pit Bull/Husky mix in Port Huron, Michigan. 

I would not only be looking to my legislators but to the media who are failing on reporting these horrors. We are all dog people on here and we all should have heard of this bill, and the two slaughters.

There are also dozens and dozens of communities that cannot safely walk their streets with their dogs due to Pit Bulls. It would be far easier, and a much shorter list, for me to name off areas where it is safe to walk your dogs rather than list all the communities which are fraught with ill contained Pit Bulls near where I live.



MustLoveGSDs said:


> We have the legal right to shoot people that come on to our property.
> 
> Houston is the 4th largest city. In any large city you will find all walks of life.


There recently was a man in the news who had a Pit Bull come onto his property and decimated a good many of his chickens. At a later time, he once more caught this proven killer on his property and shot and injured the Pit Bull. The short of the long of it, the man was found guilty as the court ruled he was not within his legal rights to shoot at this trespassing, livestock killing Pit Bull as it was not in the act of killing his chickens, or anything else, when he shot it, although it was loose and on his property.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

1) Colt Defender in .45 cal

2) CRKT M16-14ZLEK (tactical knife)


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

LuvShepherds said:


> I'm thinking about carrying a big stick, but I'm want my hands free.


In Texas, that would be considered a club and would be illegal. But you can carry a pistol in the open come January 1st.

Go figure.

Best,

LF


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> How awful! That poor GSD! I remember the young SAR German Shepherd that had his rear leg ripped off by Pit Bulls ending his career, and it is not uncommon to see a German Shepherd's ears ripped of by attacking Pit Bulls!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





MineAreWorkingline said:


> How awful! That poor GSD! I remember the young SAR German Shepherd that had his rear leg ripped off by Pit Bulls ending his career, and it is not uncommon to see a German Shepherd's ears ripped of by attacking Pit Bulls!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry it is unusual and it should be. This should be no ones way of life. Growing up a few towns over many many years ago many people let their dogs out all the time mostly mixed breeds. No one seemed to spay or neuter their dogs. The dogs would mate in the streets. Try to get in our house. Hang out with us kids at the bus stop. It was out of control. I always tried to keep a dog that would hang around on yard for days. Then very quickly that all stopped leash laws with heavy fines were enforced. Animal pound always drove around. People were educated on spaying and neutering their dogs. Shelters offered low cost spay clinics. Dog rescue shelters starting popping up. The chaos stopped very quick. I was able to daily walk my dogs very young 5th grade and really had no issues accept a neighbor but animal control fixed as their dogs got out of control. it is very rare you see a loose dog. If you do it is either a neighbors dog that escaped the yard or fence and you can call them because they are frantically looking for their dog. You see a loose dog now and then stuff happens but the streets are not over run with dogs. The shelter is filled with pit bulls who were mostly abandoned. Most pit bulls i see are well taken care for by their owner and leashed. Our taxes are extremely high they are high enough you think an armed guard would accompany you on each walk-that is not the case. but i assume that is something that we are paying for to keep dogs off the street and will not complain. I would gather people and go to congress something should be done something can be done.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I think the scariest scenario I witnessed was the 2 GSDs that chased every kid in a 4 block radius growling. We came down the stairs(my son first) and they were at thd bottom with their teeth bared growling. I pulled my son behind me, had him get back in the house and I walked backwards up the stairs--never taking my eyes off them. They terrorized the area for about 45 minutes before they were caught. Kids were running everywhere, crying, jumping fences. It was just really bad. 

I don't know what the reaction would have been to other dogs with them. It was still a rare occurrence and not something that you would see everyday.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

It really is crazy and will only breed more chaos if this keeps going on. Getting the medias attention can only be an advantage.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

wolfy dog said:


> Counter, just to walk your dog?
> I carry Direct Stop and my attitude. That is sufficient for our area, thankfully.


No, definitely NOT to walk my dog. Ha! Like I said, I use my own two hands to defend my dogs from other dogs. I've done it more times than I can count. Nothing has ever escalated to the point that I couldn't handle it with my body and hands alone. I just carry a big knife and a concealed gun because I can, because I'm sane, and because I have some military combat training, just in case I would ever need to use them, say for an active shooter or ISIS situation. 

The Clackamas Town Center mall shooting in Portland, Oregon a few years back was very close to where we lived. I would actually go running with the dogs from our house, to the mall, and then back home. It was 9 miles round trip. My wife and kids were actually planning to go shopping there that same week, which is rare as we never shop at malls, and while the shooting was happening I was calling my wife and she wasn't answering. I thought the worst had happened, as they never set a day to go in stone, so I thought they might've been there at that same time while I was at work. 

The shooter in that situation was confronted by an innocent bystander in the food court who happened to have a concealed carry license and happened to be carrying at that time. When he pulled out his gun and took aim to return fire, the killer ran down that corridor and committed suicide. The stories where others with guns thwart these bad guys or save other's lives rarely seem to make the news. It drives me crazy to watch and hear the footage of these various killers shooting up people and places, and they're the only one with a gun. All you hear is shot after shot after shot, knowing each or many of those are going into innocent victims, killing or severely injuring them, and there's no one else around who can do anything to stop the shooter. 

That France footage in the rock concert hall was terrible. Shot after shot after shot, and of course no one around has a gun to defend everyone, and the cops (who have the guns) were nowhere to be seen or found until it was too late. What, like 80+ dead? I carry more to defend myself and my family, but being that my dogs are part of my family, if I needed to defend them too, I would be able, with hands, knife, or gun. It would always depend on the situation.

I've never lived where I feared for my life or feared to walk my dogs. I think if it ever got that bad, I would do what I could to move. Also, I hopefully wouldn't have moved there in the first place, but I understand that you can't control the future and who moves in after you're already in place. But I've walked with my family and/or dogs through plenty of ghettos with homeless, drug dealers, gangsters, etc. and never once feared for my life. Most of these "thugs" associate GSDs to LE K9s and greatly fear the dogs (ironic though, since the thugs usually own more "scary" and aggressive pit bulls), so that alone makes me feel safe, whether I have my gun on me or not. 

Good question though. Thanks for asking!


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## truckola (Nov 3, 2013)

They rarely make the news because there is no body count. Blood and death sells.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

truckola said:


> They rarely make the news because there is no body count. Blood and death sells.


No body counts? Over two dozen Pit Bull mauling fatalities each year for the last few years, mostly children and the elderly aren't body counts?


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> No body counts? Over two dozen Pit Bull mauling fatalities each year for the last few years, mostly children and the elderly aren't body counts?


"The stories where others with guns thwart these bad guys or save other's lives rarely seem to make the news."

I think maybe Truckola was responding to this statement by Counter.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

newlie said:


> "The stories where others with guns thwart these bad guys or save other's lives rarely seem to make the news."
> 
> I think maybe Truckola was responding to this statement by Counter.


If you are correct, my apologies to Truckola.


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## truckola (Nov 3, 2013)

No problem I should have quoted.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Longfisher said:


> OK. I don't want to start an argument here over the use of deadly force, but, I want to emphasize that even in Texas one can't use deadly force as capriciously as the quoted poster's words might suggest without serious consequences up to and including lethal injection if the courts judge the shooting to be murder in the 1st or 2nd degree.
> 
> Texas is perhaps increasingly dangerous and gun-oriented. But it's not the wild west, yet.
> 
> ...


I left out the novel of legal text. Obviously you can legally shoot but terms and conditions apply.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

I wonder what the problem breed was before the "fighting" bully breeds....
I really disagree with BSL. Don't ban the breed. Ban the moron owners who. 1. Get a dog they can't handle and 2. Who abandon their dog. Its sad our society is one of such entitlement where any jack hole with $200 can buy a dog usually a "tough" one. Then chain this dog outside, try to make it mean, or don't spend any time being a dog owner. These are the dogs that end up attacking innocent well behaved dogs. The owners that go to a good breeder are not the ones that own a bully running loose. 
That being said the wonderful city of Rochester, NY has a group that brings people that can't afford a dog, dog food. And when things get tough?


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Fodder said:


> ...
> 
> 
> not discounting anyone's experiences or their *perceived *need for protection.... I'm just surprised a little by the topic and expressing my view.
> ...


How nice of you to express your view with the not so subtle derision. 

Some call it live in fear, and some call it live prepared...


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

^ ahem, perceived derision 

stay prepared darlin!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Just for the record, people do need to know that in an active shooter situation. When "SWAT" shows up anyone with a gun is a potential target!

In the Ore. College shooting, there were members of the military with CC permits and armed! They met up and felt the best course of action was to stand down because LE was in route! Just saying.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

When seconds count law enforcement is just minutes away!

I carry a .45 because they don't make a .46!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> I wonder what the problem breed was before the "fighting" bully breeds....


I am no spring chicken. I don't remember any other breed being a problem prior to bully breeds. Not saying that other dogs did not have reputations, but if you check the stats, the data does not support any other breed as holding that slot. Also, no other breeds need break sticks to remove them from their victims, human or animal, a couple of well placed boots were usually sufficient to stop an attack.



Chip18 said:


> Just for the record, people do need to know that in an active shooter situation. When "SWAT" shows up anyone with a gun is a potential target!
> 
> In the Ore. College shooting, there were members of the military with CC permits and armed! They met up and felt the best course of action was to stand down because LE was in route! Just saying.


I hear you there. I live just outside a big city and you do NOT want to be the one with a gun when the police arrive.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Just for the record, people do need to know that in an active shooter situation. When "SWAT" shows up anyone with a gun is a potential target!
> 
> In the Ore. College shooting, there were members of the military with CC permits and armed! They met up and felt the best course of action was to stand down because LE was in route! Just saying.


Actually, I think this is an incredibly important thing for gun owners to know if they intend to intercede in a deadly situation that could result in the loss of life and where the gun owner has every right and incentive to intervene.

When the cops show up drop the weapon and follow orders. The cops are in no position rushing into an active shooting scene to discriminate and just telling the cop, "Hey, I'm a good guy." while still holding the weapons may very well be the last words you utter.

Best,

LF


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

For those of us who live in areas where owning and carrying a weapon isn't legal or possible, what do you suggest?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I wish I had handy the stats on gun deaths. Basically, households in which a gun is present are more likely to have someone killed by a gun; in households with guns present, suicides are more likely. Something to consider.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> For those of us who live in areas where owning and carrying a weapon isn't legal or possible, what do you suggest?


Just for example:

In California it is a misdemeanor to carry a loaded firearm concealed on your person or in your vehicle (no you won't get into a jam if you have your firearm secured in the trunk of your car as long as its unloaded). 

In California it is a felony under California Penal Code to possess a club, baton etc... (see California Penal Code section 12020).

If you are in a state that does not allow concealed carry I would look at some type of Taser (State law permitting). Outside of that pepper spray or some type of chemical agent (once again, law permitting!).

A well honed "walking stick" is probably your best bet. Just make sure that it's clearly a walking stick if you get my drift!

Because as I said before! When seconds count law enforcement is just minutes away!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

middleofnowhere said:


> I wish I had handy the stats on gun deaths. Basically, households in which a gun is present are more likely to have someone killed by a gun; in households with guns present, suicides are more likely. Something to consider.


 
While I agree, and your statement and the facts/stats to back it up are obvious, the first thing I thought of was:

It would be like saying houses with dogs living in it are more likely for "oops litters" compared to houses with no dogs.

So while both of these statement are true, guns vs no guns and dogs vs no dogs should not be a gun or dog thing. It comes down to responsible vs irresponsible humans. And as we see, the majority of dog owners (probably just like the majority of gun owners) lean closer to being irresponsible than responsible.

I trust in my sanity, my combat training, my gun procedures within my own house to keep them locked and away from my children, and we also teach our children about guns. When they are old enough, I'll take them out shooting to learn more hands on experience. No one ever took me gun shooting until I joined the Navy. We teach our children about dogs on the same level, both how to treat and care for our own, and how to approach strange dogs. It's all about education and training, and teaching the next generation how to remain safe and vigilant at all times. The bad guys will always have access to guns. The good guys need to legally represent all gun owners and lead by example, and not become some "crazy gun nut."

I don't want to turn this into a gun debate or politics, but I can see both sides and I agree that we should be allowed to legally (and with sanity; no mental health issues) own and carry guns to protect ourselves, our family, and if it comes to it: other innocent bystanders in case of an active shooter.

I've been sworn to protect and defend complete strangers since 1993, and I've taken that oath to DIE for them if I must. And yes, I am indeed willing to die for you and everyone on this forum and anyone and everyone else I have never met, because my passion in life has always been about helping others. In an active shooter situation, I would let my instincts take over and would do what I've been trained to do most of my life. I would know what to do when the police/SWAT shows up. I am not worried and I have no fear. This comes natural to me, which I why I enlisted to serve my country and die for its citizens. Not to be a hero, but to be a "help!"


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I grew up in a big city. When I moved to Texas, my gosh - everyone over 13 was well trained on gun safety and owned several. Took some getting used to. I about fell over when I first got there (harvest season) Here come these big as a house combines down the field. Who climbs out of them to come have supper? - a bunch of 12-14 year old kids! When I moved to Idaho - I was much more at ease with the gun environment. 

I think that when you're raised in areas that one lone Sheriff's deputy is charged with covering huge areas of rural sparsely populated areas - you get more gun residents (and since these families have been raised for generations around them - there is the best of gun training safety and responsibility drilled into the kids). Response time by LE will not be adequate in these areas when defending your dog or livestock from an attack - for the same reason, in these sparsely populated areas, LE will support a resident that uses his weapon to defend the same. It's a slightly different set of rules - out of necessity.

Not saying that's always a good thing. Some abuse for sure. Where I was in South Texas rural - a stray dog gets caught digging in your trash - grounds for shooting - and LE supports it....


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Who?*



LuvShepherds said:


> For those of us who live in areas where owning and carrying a weapon isn't legal or possible, what do you suggest?


I don't know to whom this question is directed, and, I don't know what you mean by the word weapon.

Best,

LF


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## truckola (Nov 3, 2013)

middleofnowhere said:


> I wish I had handy the stats on gun deaths. Basically, households in which a gun is present are more likely to have someone killed by a gun; in households with guns present, suicides are more likely. Something to consider.


 Australia banned most common firearms and confiscated them. A study was done on suicides looking at the before and after. "When the firearm suicide rate for Australian males declined the hanging rate increased simultaneously, with no statistical difference in the rate of change of the two methods." Trends in hanging and firearm suicide rates in Australia: substitution of method? - PubMed - NCBI People will find a way to suicide, guns are not the cause.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Gun confiscation from responsible citizens to reduce gun crimes is akin to auto confiscation from sober drivers so as to reduce drunk driving.

Best,

LF


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

A friend of mine, in fact the man that gave me a ride 100 miles round trip to get my pup Summer committed suicide last month. He used a rope and a door. Don't know how - don't want to know.... when someone's wanting to check out, a gun isn't needed.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

middleofnowhere said:


> I wish I had handy the stats on gun deaths. Basically, households in which a gun is present are more likely to have someone killed by a gun; in households with guns present, suicides are more likely. Something to consider.


This reminds me of the statistic that says that neutered dogs do not get testicular cancer :wild:


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## viking (May 2, 2014)

"Do you suppose that what is driving the people who have pit bulls is the same thing the same apprehension that is driving people who arm themselves with guns and knives?"

No


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

middleofnowhere said:


> I wish I had handy the stats on gun deaths. Basically, households in which a gun is present are more likely to have someone killed by a gun; in households with guns present, suicides are more likely. Something to consider.


https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check


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## truckola (Nov 3, 2013)

llombardo said:


> https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home
> 
> 10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down | Mother Jones


 Here's more Debunking Mother Jones' '10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down' - The Truth About Guns


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

truckola said:


> Here's more Debunking Mother Jones' '10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down' - The Truth About Guns


Or this one. I have no problem with guns or people that have them, if safety precautions are used if children are in the house. My son was almost shot by his cousin when they were two. Her father decided to bring a gun camping. We were packing and they were in the tent, I heard the click, my heart was in my mouth, luckily the safety was on. I did not know a gun was around and I can honestly say I'm not sure what the outcome would have been if my son was killed that day. 
http://www.childrensdefense.org/lib.../protect-children-not-guns-key-facts-2013.pdf


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> Actually, I think this is an incredibly important thing for gun owners to know if they intend to intercede in a deadly situation that could result in the loss of life and where the gun owner has every right and incentive to intervene.
> 
> When the cops show up drop the weapon and follow orders. The cops are in no position rushing into an active shooting scene to discriminate and just telling the cop, "Hey, I'm a good guy." while still holding the weapons may very well be the last words you utter.
> 
> ...


Heard it on NPR ... actually it should be a Public Service announcement! "Immediate" compliance required otherwise it's two in the chest one in the head ...problem solved! The oops thing will come later!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Experience in Oregon, Wyoming and Colorado = many armed people do not behave responsibly. Don't know what more to say on that one. I think if we could just outlaw stupid we'd have it all fixed.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

middleofnowhere said:


> Experience in Oregon, Wyoming and Colorado = many armed people do not behave responsibly. Don't know what more to say on that one. *I think if we could just outlaw stupid we'd have it all fixed.*


One can dream. :wild:


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

middleofnowhere said:


> Experience in Oregon, Wyoming and Colorado = many armed people do not behave responsibly. Don't know what more to say on that one. I think if we could just outlaw stupid we'd have it all fixed.


Exactly - don't blame the gun - it's stupid's fault and stupid seems to be a hereditary trait in some lines.....


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

counter said:


> While I agree, and your statement and the facts/stats to back it up are obvious, the first thing I thought of was:
> 
> It would be like saying houses with dogs living in it are more likely for "oops litters" compared to houses with no dogs.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your service and commitment! 

The Military, wouldn't let me join. 

And while this is not about Guns or Politics it is about reasonable people being responsible and doing the right thing! 

"Responsible" people don't do stupid things with guns and "Responsible" people don't take "unstable" Pit's to Dog Parks. And for me, that would be a Pit that has not been too taught to "behave" around other dogs!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

yuriy said:


> One can dream. :wild:


We should all live long enough to see that happen!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> A friend of mine, in fact the man that gave me a ride 100 miles round trip to get my pup Summer committed suicide last month. He used a rope and a door. Don't know how - don't want to know.... when someone's wanting to check out, a gun isn't needed.


Sorry to hear this!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Chip18 said:


> Thank you for your service and commitment!
> 
> The Military, wouldn't let me join.
> 
> ...


 No worries, and thanks. Why couldn't you join? It's usually medical background or some other issue that was the norm or just an innocent scenario in your youth, that you later find out has disqualified you for life from the military. I just got done being an active duty recruiter for 4 years in Oregon. I learned a lot about the percentages of Americans who want to join and serve, but who are already permanently DQd for life before they even turn 18. Most of them are due to medicines for ADD, ADHD, depression and Anxiety Disorders, or from being seen by psychiatrists/psychologists. But that's another topic for another day. Ha!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

counter said:


> No worries, and thanks. Why couldn't you join? It's usually medical background or some other issue that was the norm or just an innocent scenario in your youth, that you later find out has disqualified you for life from the military. I just got done being an active duty recruiter for 4 years in Oregon. I learned a lot about the percentages of Americans who want to join and serve, but who are already permanently DQd for life before they even turn 18. Most of them are due to medicines for ADD, ADHD, depression and Anxiety Disorders, or from being seen by psychiatrists/psychologists. But that's another topic for another day. Ha!


My Dad was in the Navy for 25 years or so?? 1972 I would have gone straight to "Nam" but, I "thought" I had asthma?? Turned out, I was allergic to fresh cut grass! 

Pretty much as simple as that.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Chip18 said:


> My Dad was in the Navy for 25 years or so?? 1972 I would have gone straight to "Nam" but, I "thought" I had asthma?? Turned out, I was allergic to fresh cut grass!
> 
> Pretty much as simple as that.


 OK gotcha!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

It's not naive. :thumbup:

It's an appropriate appraisal of liability vs actual need. 

A BIG sturdy walking stick is what I carry if I happen to be out walking. btw. 

Biggest problem around here are loose dogs, pitties especially. 

As an aside, I think walking dogs is very boring...but that's me. I'd rather be somewhere training for focus, tracking, OB, and other more interactive engaged activities.




Fodder said:


> ...but I also refuse to live in fear or on edge expecting danger to be lurking around every corner. call it stupid or naive if you want. confidence and positive energy have taken me far. not to put you on the spot Stone, but I'm truly saddened when I hear/read things like being afraid to walk your dog in your own neighborhood because of a stray dog. I can't imagine living like that. I just can't.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

llombardo said:


> truckola said:
> 
> 
> > Here's more Debunking Mother Jones' '10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down' - The Truth About Guns
> ...


Your son is very lucky. When I was a kid we went to my dads aunts house. She was a widow and had no kids. My cousins and I were playing and one cousin saw a rifle prompt up against a wall. He thought it was a toy and picked it up and said I'm going to shoot you. My great aunt walked at exactly that moment -she must of not planned for us to roam around the house but it is what kids do-and screamed for him to not shoot put the gun down. The rifle was loaded. I was very lucky nothing happened that day. 
https://injury.research.chop.edu/vi...-violence/gun-violence-facts-and#.VmwuGl88KJI


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## kaslkaos (Jan 15, 2003)

Long johns, raincoat, earmuffs, sunscreen, depending on the time of year.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

RZZNSTR said:


> In California it is a felony under California Penal Code to possess a club, baton etc... (see California Penal Code section 12020).



How does this work out for protection sport clubs and trials?


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## EMH (Jul 28, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> I would have never considered deadly force a dozen years ago, however - I've seen too many people and their pets become victims. Standing there, in their utopian world, suddenly confronted with a life or death problem and THEN they realize - waiting 20-30 minutes for law enforcement to show up is a stupid way to think in this day and age....


When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

> Originally Posted by RZZNSTR View Post
> 
> In California it is a felony under California Penal Code to possess a club, baton etc... (see California Penal Code section 12020).
> 
> How does this work out for protection sport clubs and trials?


In Maryland it is very difficult to get a Concealed Carry permit. Even around the suburban neighborhoods near me, I often see people walking for exercise carrying some sort of club... a cane that they aren't using to walk with, a walking stick, a golf club, etc.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

car2ner said:


> In Maryland it is very difficult to get a Concealed Carry permit. Even around the suburban neighborhoods near me, I often see people walking for exercise carrying some sort of club... a cane that they aren't using to walk with, a walking stick, a golf club, etc.


In some places (like where I am), if you ever use an item like that to defend yourself, you're going to be in a LOT of legal/criminal trouble. You can even get in trouble for just carrying it around. Not something I agree with, but it is what it is. Best to check the local laws before carrying something for protection.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Thank you for your service and commitment!
> 
> The Military, wouldn't let me join.
> 
> ...


Well, that's nice. Thanks for it.

But I will tell you that I read this Gentleman's post and couldn't help but be concerned at the near-apocalyptic nature of his post.

Frankly, I think he's unhinged.

I'd have much preferred he not sound so much like a cartoon superhero right out of Marvel Comics than as a reluctant combatant who regretted ever element of force he had to take.

I'm not saying this Gentleman is a nut case, but he sure posts like one. And, I'm sure some of you also thought the same...am I right?

Actually, his is precisely the sort of statements and behavior I tend to believe should make me flip the safety off on my pistol.

Best,

LF


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

yuriy said:


> In some places (like where I am), if you ever use an item like that to defend yourself, you're going to be in a LOT of legal/criminal trouble. You can even get in trouble for just carrying it around. Not something I agree with, but it is what it is. Best to check the local laws before carrying something for protection.


In Texas I see a lot of folks carrying golf clubs to do their daily walks...all the while, apparently, not understanding that a club of any sort if carried in public is a 3rd degree felony.

The cops seem to be OK with it around my affluent neighborhood. But I'd not try that in a lower-income neighborhood. It'd give the cops a cause to arrest you, or, worse, or, much worse.

Best,

LF


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

kaslkaos!! absolute best reply!!!


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Flippant*



Fodder said:


> kaslkaos!! absolute best reply!!!


Come now. The reply was condescending and flippant (but a bit funny if you like edgy humor).

I'll admit that we all create our own realities, but, some of us do so on the basis or reality.

I could not count of both hands and toes (there are too many) how many times I've had to drive off an attacking dog when I walked Zeus as a puppy. My reality is based on those experience, which were very real.

Best,

LongFisher


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

^ I see your point but this thread has taken so many turns, I personally enjoyed that comedic relief!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Longfisher said:


> Come now. The reply was condescending and flippant (but a bit funny if you like edgy humor).
> 
> I'll admit that we all create our own realities, but, some of us do so on the basis or reality.
> 
> ...


I have five dogs. One was attacked as a puppy on her very first walk, right in front of my house. Dogs attacking, and killing, other dogs in my neighborhood is nothing new and has been a problem here for over 15 years. Three of them will NEVER know what it is like to walk about my community, none of those who have walked it will ever walk it again.


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## Saito (Dec 3, 2015)

Jeeze, everyone always makes fun of Jersey, but at least we don't have packs of viscous dogs roaming our streets & preventing people from leaving their homes.  Maybe in really crummy places like Camden (yes, THE Camden--always a front runner for the most dangerous city in the country, year after year). Never seen swarms of dogs, the times I've been in Camden, but perhaps I haven't been to a bad enough part at the right times. Been in some really awful parts of Philadelphia...no stray killer dogs.

Like another said in the thread, what a lot of you are describing seems unimaginable. Where is you animal control?!
Over here, if a dog bites and has no microchip or rabies tag...it is put down, so that it can be determined if it has rabies or not.

I think breed banning is asinine, but would love some dog ownership laws like we have for guns. Background checks etc. Have papers for your dog. And very importantly: let's perhaps do something about regulating dog breeding in some way. Of course, handling accidental matings could be tricky to deal with. Eh, I'm not a lawyer. And smart/useful legislation isn't something I really expect to see in my lifetime anyway. Wishful thinking. Fun thought: all dogs cost $3,000. And you have to pay taxes on that. Show proper paper work. Microchips mandatory perhaps? Uncle Sam would make sure your dog is legal so he gets his money! Plus less irresponsible owners due to the costs. Again...just spit-balling for a utopic world...nobody needs to get all uppity about this late night rambling thought--I'm sure there are plenty of flaws in there.

As many can guess by now, I don't carry any anti-dog gear on me, as there aren't strays around me. Leash laws are present here. You'll occasionally see someone off leash walking briefly but...you can kind of assume that is a well behaved dog, as Jersey has more cars per sq ft than any other state. In other words, if you don't trust your dog off leash in a leash required area...chances of being hit by a car is high. How rare are bad strays? If someone sees a dog, they stop their car and try catching it, as it is probably someone's dog that bumped open a gate. I've stopped plenty before. I've had others walk up to my door and ask, "do you know who this dog belongs to?"
I suppose the danger of bad dogs escaping does exist. I have seen some 'angry' dogs behind fences. But they're usually accompanied by well secured gates/fences. Plus...I can't really blame a dog for wanting to protect its home from strangers. If say, a crazy dog bolts out of a property, my dog is able to defend itself if I drop the leash. Especially long enough for me to pry a different dog off it, if need be.
According to this: http://www.rottweilerlife.com/2014/02/top-10-dogs-mess-strongest-dog-bites/
GSDs and pits have the same bite force: only 238 lbs. Even the rotty _only_ has a force of 328 lbs. For my hands, those numbers are fine (again, if need be--I'd go for a choke hold first, as it would be "easy" to engage when a dog is focused on your dog), despite not being what I used to be (a mastiff sure would be interesting a couple years ago). If I now encountered a rabid mastiff...which isn't a very common breed, I'd possibly resort to my switch blade, if it came to it.

I do carry a switch with me for 2 legged threats out of habit nowadays. I used to travel the country a lot and be in new towns and cities, having little idea of where I was, other than the name of where I'd be for the day. I liked to walk to places, so a blade in the pocket felt like a good idea. Never had to take it out, but have had my hand ready in my pocket in some places like in New Mexico. So, back home, it fills up some pocket space.


I was at the dog park today (the massive 7 acre I mentioned/described in a different thread). Someone was dumb enough to bring their dog with stitches, so mine remained on leash...he's still young and will play rough if that is how the other dogs want to play...my luck he'd knock that dog over and the stitches would break open from an awkward landing into a tree root (just didn't want to deal with a potential headache). Lots of dogs. Saw 5 huskies, 2 Doberman, 3 pits, and a few sherpards and Shepard mixes. So many "fierce" dogs. Guess which dog was the one that came up to my at heel leashed dog and aggressively growled/barked (definitely wasn't a play bark--everyone nearby froze up) at and bit at mine with no signs of warning. The pits? Not a chance--they were well behaved. A large lab mix. My reaction? Two fingers under the aggressor's collar and moved him away, while I spun my dog's leash short around my hand and spread my long arms to not give him a chance to 'protect me.' The lab made another unpleasant sound, so I twisted my fingers to tighten its collar, moved him more towards the fence, raised him slightly, and grabbed the fence with that same hand (this eliminated any chance of it being able to violently thrash its body to try getting free). The owner came over somewhat mortified, "ohh, he must've gotten suddenly over excited..." We later noticed that same dog snap at another, but not to the same extent. Didn't see any of the 'scary' dogs acting up at all, though (I even got a kiss from a really sweet bulldog, too! Yay!).


Anyway, here's a thought for a defensive action, since a lot of people here are afraid of their dog being mauled to death: wear something protective on your forearm and get the dog to chomp down on that (get your arm in there before it goes towards your dog, if you truly feel it's going to go after yours). When it is biting, go to the ground and take your other hand and press down on its mouth. Get your thighs around its neck to keep it in place. At this point shout for help and restrain the dog until animal control or police arrive. In the meantime, aren't you confident that your dog will try to save you and now be the one mauling? Sure, it would be gruesome having your dog mauling a stray, as it is locked against your body, but you and your dog would go home safe. If you get your legs right, you would probably be able to suffocate the dog before AC or your dog makes things too gruesome.
Note: in a really terrible situation, you could probably do this with your bare forearm, too. If you haven't had your shot for rabies, that's where it becomes a real risk. But they can treat you, if you go asap after the bite. A person's forearm will hold up to a clamped down dog...it'll just hurt a lot at the time (there are far worse pains in life--this is well within a level of pain to take on to protect your dog). The important thing would be to restrain the dog very well, so that it can't thrash about and tear your arm up.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> Come now. The reply was condescending and flippant (but a bit funny if you like edgy humor).
> 
> I'll admit that we all create our own realities, but, some of us do so on the basis or reality.
> 
> ...


 Shadow, and I, were attacked a number of times on walks, and once in the yard, when she was growing up. A Golden, a Rott, a BC and an American Bulldog were the notable culprits, not a PB in the bunch. Very likely the reason for her 'irrational' hatred of all dogs. I walk with a stick, but have come to realize that I most often drop it and resort to hands and feet. Oddly, the same loose dogs that were so very willing to attack Shadow wanted nothing to do with engaging Sabs or Bud. Sabi was attacked twice in our yard, and Bud got into it once on a walk. Both times they walked away with nothing more then missing fur and some scratches. 
I don't walk Shadow as much as I should. The anxiety isn't worth it. At no point have I considered going all 'urban combat' though. Since I live in Canada, no weapons are legal and most sprays are also banned.


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## Alee C. (Dec 15, 2015)

I worry about dogs chasing us, because where I live leash laws are kinda ignored by most owners. So I carry dog attack deterrent(basically pepper spray).


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## EMH (Jul 28, 2014)

Longfisher said:


> In Texas I see a lot of folks carrying golf clubs to do their daily walks...all the while, apparently, not understanding that a club of any sort if carried in public is a 3rd degree felony.
> 
> The cops seem to be OK with it around my affluent neighborhood. But I'd not try that in a lower-income neighborhood. It'd give the cops a cause to arrest you, or, worse, or, much worse.
> 
> ...


It's a felony to carry a golf club in public? what?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

In Texas? It is illegal to carry a club? Isn't that an open carry state? But clubs are a no go?


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## RubenZ (Jan 15, 2016)

I live in South Texas like 20 min from the US Mexican border. Ask me if I trust my fellow 2 legged creatures to have trained and trusty dogs . I'm Hispanic and I can tell you from experience my people are not the smartest pet owners around. At least in my area. They are of the LETS buy 4 German Shepherds and TIE them out in a tree in an empty lot with no shelter during hurricanes type of mentality. I can't even walk my dogs in my own neighborhood because theres so many strays around. If I do, its right after work where I have lots of light and can see all around me with ease. THAT and I also conceal carry in case as a last resort I do have to protect myself and my dogs. But most of the time we take them to a nice city park to walk.


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