# Shiloh Shepherds



## NoGSD (Apr 13, 2016)

Hi all!

While the day I get a dog is a long way off, I just thought I'd like some second opinions.

From what I can gather, Shiloh Shepherds are a breed of dog in the German Shepherd family, like Eastern European/King Shepherds, Czech Wolfdogs, etc. that were mainly GSDs crossed with Malamutes and a few other things for better hips and a calmer temperament, along with larger size. While I know to treat newer breeds with heavy skepticism, allow me to make my case.

1. Despite many many hours of googling, unlike with other new breeds, I have found precisely 0 horror stories, and not just breeders but owners seem to think very highly of them, claiming they are very sweet, gentle, stable, and calm.

2. Most breeders have OFA certification and the breed in general seems to have OFA Good on average. I can't seem to find other health issues, either.

3. I need a dog calmer than a Purebred GSD as my first dog, and the general consensus seems to be that Shilohs tend to be the calmest of any of the GSD family. 

4. Many youtube videos are uploaded not just by breeders but owners of Shilohs earning obedience certification, doing tricks, etc. They seem to be intelligent, from what I can gather, and very motivated to train. 

As with any dog, checking for OFA certification, bloodline, temperament, etc. are a must, but the breed standard actually forbids aggression and with good breeding doesn't seem to be much of a problem. So what do you guys think?


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## NoGSD (Apr 13, 2016)

Quick Addendum: I do understand the ISSR is founded in a lot of scandal and typically is not trusted, maybe someone has firsthand experience with Shiloh Breeders?


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

Shiloh shepherds are just shepherd mixes to me. 
Some people say oh they are german shepherds with a calmer personality and they are a lot bigger. Well to me thats not a german shepherd. The GSD standard is a smaller dog 66 to 88lb and they are not calm and lazy they are driven working dogs. 
Back in the day GSDs to top of the line working dogs. People saw them in movies and read war stories and wanted that dog. Then you get people that cant handle them and then you get dog bites. Then people breed their own varieties of calm easy going dogs you can just park in your living room. Fast forward to present day and people want a dog not ruined like a roach back show so they remember how huge their families or their friends gsd was and want some giant dog when in reality the dog they remember was probably only 70 lbs. So no there is demand and where there is demand a lucrative person with find a way to fill it. So there are backyard breeders and designer mutts like king shepherds and Shiloh shepherds riding on the coat tails of what used to be a German shepherd. 
The way i see it is these mutts will not have the same personality or traits a german shepherd should have. Puppies will not be nearly as predictable in terms of size, drive and health. So why pay for a dog that just looks like some peoples interpretation of the breed when you can have the real thing. Sure it will not be easy but you will learn and grow and love your dog. If you think you cant handle a gsd then dont get one. If you are getting a mutt dont fool your self into paying big money for a rare breed. Go to a shelter and find a sweet dog that needs a home rather then produce more demand for watered down dogs that look like shepherds. 
I have a working line german shepherd and a little mutt. I love both of them the same. I would reconsider why you want a dog and exactally what you want. Do you want to work with it, lounge around, train, compete, run have a gaurd dog? Once you figure out what you are looking for be honest about what breed fits that. decide if you can find what you need in a shelter or if you have to go to a breeder.


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## brandydan (May 7, 2015)

*I have a Shiloh*

My Shiloh, Tal, was brought into our home after more than a year of research of both 'real' GSDs and Shilohs. We leaned towards the Shiloh because of some of the things you mentioned, namely temperament and health. Our home is filled with several cats who rule the roost, and at first, a pair of elderly smaller dogs and after fostering a beautiful doberman puppy, my husband, in particular, did not want a dominant dog. And while we both love GSDs, we realized early on that we were not ready yet to bring one into our household, but still wanted a larger dog, plus one that we could be fairly assured would be healthy. We had lost our last 'large' dog, a Golden Retriever, to cancer.

While there is the weird relationship (or lack of one) between two 'camps' of Shiloh breeders, to all their credit, most, if not all, will not breed any of their dogs that do not pass hips and heart testing. And aggressive dogs are usually not kept for breeding. In the bunch of breeders I was following for months, most placed the test results of their breeding studs and dams along with the 'really cool stuff' like height, weight, and coat. So, knock on wood, I have a healthy Shiloh. 

Many breeders will temperament test the puppies before releasing them to prospective owners, and some will keep a potential owner on a wait list until the right temperament in a puppy comes along. I know a lot of more experienced people on this forum will dismiss the results for an 8-week puppy, but it does give a base from where to start. Some people with GSD experience or without any other pets and/or children in their homes will prefer a more dominant puppy, others, like me and my husband, wanted a dog, that, to be completely, totally honest, would have been like a golden in a gsd suit. 

We hoped to take the puppy through training and work on getting a CGC and becoming a therapy dog. While we had to put those dreams on hold since Tal entered his fear phase at 5 months and at 10 months and counting has decided that he would rather walk through fire than have anyone pet him, I keep in touch with his breeder and several of his littermates are already in training to pass their CGC tests which they can take in a few months. So, while 'steady' is a term often used, not every single one will be. Training, socialization and being consistent are very important.

There is at least one other member here that I know of who also has a Shiloh, and we both can agree that training one will be a little bit different than GSDs. Most GSDs are like sponges, learning at a ridiculous speed, and I remember a pair of GSD puppies in Tal's puppy class that flew through their training like a pair of MENSA candidates while my much-larger puppy was perfectly happy hoarding the doggy toys. My Tal seems to think about every single thing I want from him before he even decides to move. And he's perfectly fine spending time in his crate rather than hang around the other dogs or me.

What many owners and breeders call calmness is really just another word for lazy, at least for mine.:smile2:. Taking him for a slow 2-3 mile walk will end with me practically dragging all 100 pounds of him back to the truck, and he will sleep for the rest of the day. He's still growing, so I don't really push him too much but still...when our elderly scotty can outpace him, it's kind of sad. Teaching our 4-month old sheltie to run the weave poles (he is very close to getting to be oversized for conformation showing, so we're looking at agility training just in case) was easy...Tal barely walked around the poles before crashing onto the dog bed. 

I think I have a weird Shiloh. He's not food motivated, so training him takes a bit longer since he also has the attention span of a caffeinated fly. He hates water, so bathing him is a nightmare and he won't get anywhere close to our pool so exercising him is hard. While he has never shown any signs of aggression, he also will avoid any and all attempts of letting people or other dogs near him. 

What I am trying to say is that I love my Tal. He's goofy and makes weird woo-woo sounds when he's trying to get my attention and can jump over the sofa when he's trying to escape from our cats and will wander our yard dragging a palm frond Just Because. 

BUT...don't let the lack of horror stories online fool you into thinking this is a perfect breed. If that was the case, there would be a lot more of them around. There will be aggressive Shilohs, dominant ones, overly shy, dog and people aggressive, etc. There will be those that even with healthy backgrounds, will have DM and other issues. This is a HUGE dog, will many of the same issues other larger dogs have, both health-wise as well as temperament wise.

I stay in this forum, though, because while he is not a GSD, he's pretty close to one, and I've gained so much knowledge and advice and suggestions. I know that there are GSDs out there that are easier to train, have sweeter, calmer temperaments...maybe one day we'll add one like that into our horde.


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

You may not get much positive feedback about Shilohs here since many members are very protective of the gsd and breeding to standard. You really can't compare the two...other than looks...and even then an individual picture may look the same but a side-by-side shot will show the difference. Looks aside they do not have the same personality. If you want a dog with the shepherd look and a calm laid back disposition a Shiloh may be what you want. As far as price...I do not know what they cost. People pay $1000 for a labradoodle with no papersso that is just a matter of choice. I am not aware of the Shiloh being anything other than repeatedly selecting and breeding large gsd's until they were all large. So is it a mutt?...not if the line is built on all large gsd's. All breeds started somewhere with mixing of dogs until they created a standard. White shepherds had a bad reputation for a long time and lovers of the breed created their own registry so they could have shows etc...not an expert on that. If I am totally wrong sorry. I say try to contact owners and breeders. Find what they say about the dogs. There is nothing wrong with loving the Shiloh Shepherd. If you find one that does testing and hips are OFA'd...well they are at least doing a service to their breed by working for health. Maybe there is a Shiloh forum out there that could give you better info.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There is plenty of bad about New Zion Shepherds (the daughter of the founder of the breed). Do your research well. The negative comments are not allowed on many Shiloh sights. I've read some pretty shady stories, including ones on here. Many health issues in the stock.



> I need a dog calmer than a Purebred GSD as my first dog,


You can find a nice companion GSD. I think you should go out and meet more dogs.


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## duenorth (Apr 25, 2003)

I had one as our first dog and then we switched to GSDs. No comparison. This was in the early 2000s so Shiloh breedings might have improved since then but we dealt with many health and temperament issues in our female.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I had two that I got from Tina in the mid 80's just before they became officially know as Shilohs, so they were still registered as GSDs.

Both dogs had horrible temperaments and the female had severe hip dysplasia and the male had some painful gastric problem of unknown origins.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Tina Barber/Shiloh Shepherd; Developing a new breed, setting up a registry, advancing the breed, bringing people together to follow a standard, educating people about the standard, starting clubs, modifying, adjusting, fixing problems in the breed etc. etc. etc. is HARD work, that's why most people fail when they try it. Few people have any idea what it takes to develop a breed and how hard it is to find enough breeders who share the same vision to make it a reality, keeping in mind, it takes years, and years and years and years. (look how long it took the GSD breed and how many changes it's gone through over the years)

Tina Barber had a vision for the breed (Shiloh's) but died before it became a reality. Had she lived I think in time she might have pulled it off  but we'll never know. Today the breed seems to be floundering although I'm sure there are some nice Shilohs out there.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

I've known a couple. One was a complete lay about. Didn't hardly move and didn't care to be around much activity. He would just wander off to find a calm and quiet place to enjoy his own company.

The other was super nervy and had a sizeable ball drive. Several times that one would rip a tennis ball out of its owner's hand. It was also pretty vocal.

Personally I'm not interested in that much maintenance in a coat. Both of the dogs I knew frequently had small mats behind their ears and there was always twigs and leaves getting pulled out of their coats. 

If you want a large dog that prefers low activity and has a more reliable temperament I'd look at a different 'breed'. Shilohs are often categorized as giant too, and with good reason.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Kahrg4 said:


> Personally I'm not interested in that much maintenance in a coat. Both of the dogs I knew frequently had small mats behind their ears and there was always twigs and leaves getting pulled out of their coats.


One of my females has a really long, thick coat and a massive undercoat. Every time she walks in the house things are stuck to her tail. Our cat use to hide her toy mouse in that tail when Annie was sleeping. :surprise::smile2:


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

My husband had a male Shiloh from a breeder on the east coast. Born approximately 1997. Odin was a sweet dog, but a bundle of nerves. He had extreme anxiety and destroyed quite a bit, including doors and walls. He had GI tract problems and food sensitivities. We euthanized him when his rear end gave out completely at about 12 years old. At 125 lbs we could not make it work. He also blew out a knee at some point. Just some feedback.


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## NoGSD (Apr 13, 2016)

Thank you all for the feedback! After reading through this, maybe I'll go for a Silver Sable GSD for my first dog


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

Hello, long time (8 years!) lurker, but rarely post though i visit often. I wanted to add my two cents on Shilohs. I have had two wonderful GSD and a few years ago I ended up meeting several Shilohs and their breeders at a specialty show. Immeditely i fell in love! After about 3-4 years of waiting for the right time, getting to know breeders personally and their programs, and meeting dozens of shilohs, i finally got my first pup! 
He is amazing!! He is absolutely everything i could want in a dog. He is exactly what I was dreaming of. At two years, he is quite energetic outdoors, but great off switch in the house, very steady temperament, very gentle with people, easy to handle, very intelligent and responsive. He is a bit soft tempered and is sensitive to harshness and i handle him gently. He is NOT much of a guard dog! Very willing to work for food and really tries to figure out what i want him to do. I do lots of off leash hiking and he is just as good as my GSDs in recall and staying near me. Im also showing him at shiloh specialty shows, got CGC and herding instinct cert. And tried some tracking. We mostly just dabble! If he passes his health clearances, he will be used in breeders program. I have no complaints about him! Hes also very snuggly and affectionat.

I enjoyed him so much that when i was offered a half sibling who was six months old I took her also, since i knew her already. She is just as wonderful. Shes a bit more intense and sharp in temperament, but not high energy or high strung. Shes a bit more suspicious of new people or dogs but is appropriately friendky after being introduced. She is my husbands best buddy and has been almost like a therapy dog for him after his major health issues. She is also very gentle with a great off switch, but can easily do miles of hiking provided heat and humidity are reasonable. She loves winter! I recently got a pup who os now six months who I will be showing soon. She fits right in! Very outgoing and curious. Shes been a very easy puppy. These are not lazy dogs who have zero drive. They do have a fair amount of prey drive, which can vary. So e are more energetic or lazier, but mine are all probably medium. 

My breeder along with several others i know personally are very selective on health clearances and temperament they will breed. Noone i know will allow you to choose your pup, and usually have waiting lists. They carefully go over pedigrees and consider what each dog is contributing. They do temperament testing on litters before choosing owners. Most have elderly retired dogs they love. Im very pleased with the efforts being made to improve health and reputation casued by greed and carelessness. This is a wonderful breed! Of course there are inconsistencies with conformity and less than ideal breeding programs as with most breeds. I am glad they are being bred with care because most ive known are wonderful loved dogs with owners who adore them like i do. 

I wish we could stop comparing them so unfavorably to the GSD, because the ideal Shiloh is not the same dog as the odeal GSD. The temperament and conformation is different enough that they really are suited to much different homes. Of course there is overlap due to the GSD being the main foundation. I will always have both because i do appreciate the differences! I also love the similarities, so was not wanting a newfy, golden, or leonberger, etc. as many have suggested. I love a good GSD and do not want to see them being watered down to create housepets. If you want a dog for serious work or sport, you probably do not want a Shiloh! They are not a working breed and while they do great hiking etc. they dont seem to have quite the intensity and focus and stamina the GSD can excel at. But that works out well for a family pet who goes to the park and petsmart, and maybe day hikes on weekends. I know a few who are service dogs for various disabilities and types of service/ support, many who are excellent therapy dogs, many do obedience and agility, a few herders, and several folks are getting into tracking with their shilohs. But they are not going to be competitive at the levels a quality GSD can do. But its great to be anle to try some of these sports with a calmer, less intense dog if you are new. 

Ok enough rambling from me!! There are great breeders and many many happy owners! Many of us have both breeds. Try to consider them as a separate breed bred for different purpose.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

There is a huge difference between a GSD and a Shilo. If all you want is a dog that "looks" like a GSD but is not, I would consider a King Shepard. I don't know a lot of about them but by and large your not likely to get the same set of challenges you can get with a GSD.

And I could be wrong but I think the Sable Dogs tend to be WL dogs?? Not a decision to be taken lightly. If you chose a "real " GSD then you also need to understand the difference between the SL dogs and WL dogs.

I know little of the SL dogs myself but I can say a WL GSD is not for the uninvolved. Temperament and being honest with a good breeder would be highly advised.

And the Shiloh's ... I don't have any personal experience with them but I did see one on the TV Show Bad Dog ... one of the high points?? If the owner spoke harshly to the dog ... the dog would turn around, go upstairs to the bathroom go in ... and slam the bathroom door closed???

And she was starting to teach the couples other dog to do the same thing! Dog had a few other quirks also. Now I will grant that was only one dog ... but wow!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

onyxena said:


> Hello, long time (8 years!) lurker, but rarely post though i visit often. I wanted to add my two cents on Shilohs. I have had two wonderful GSD and a few years ago I ended up meeting several Shilohs and their breeders at a specialty show. Immeditely i fell in love! After about 3-4 years of waiting for the right time, getting to know breeders personally and their programs, and meeting dozens of shilohs, i finally got my first pup!
> He is amazing!! He is absolutely everything i could want in a dog. He is exactly what I was dreaming of. At two years, he is quite energetic outdoors, but great off switch in the house, very steady temperament, very gentle with people, easy to handle, very intelligent and responsive. He is a bit soft tempered and is sensitive to harshness and i handle him gently. He is NOT much of a guard dog! Very willing to work for food and really tries to figure out what i want him to do. I do lots of off leash hiking and he is just as good as my GSDs in recall and staying near me. Im also showing him at shiloh specialty shows, got CGC and herding instinct cert. And tried some tracking. We mostly just dabble! If he passes his health clearances, he will be used in breeders program. I have no complaints about him! Hes also very snuggly and affectionat.
> 
> I enjoyed him so much that when i was offered a half sibling who was six months old I took her also, since i knew her already. She is just as wonderful. Shes a bit more intense and sharp in temperament, but not high energy or high strung. Shes a bit more suspicious of new people or dogs but is appropriately friendky after being introduced. She is my husbands best buddy and has been almost like a therapy dog for him after his major health issues. She is also very gentle with a great off switch, but can easily do miles of hiking provided heat and humidity are reasonable. She loves winter! I recently got a pup who os now six months who I will be showing soon. She fits right in! Very outgoing and curious. Shes been a very easy puppy. These are not lazy dogs who have zero drive. They do have a fair amount of prey drive, which can vary. So e are more energetic or lazier, but mine are all probably medium.
> ...


Sounds good to me, thanks for the input.


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

Ill see if i can figure out how to add pics from my ipad if anyones interested! 

I should also update my signature, i lost two of the dogs listed within the last year. Now Have my nine yo male GSD Dash, and the three shilohs, Gryphon, Vega, and Phoenixx


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

NoGSD said:


> Thank you all for the feedback! After reading through this, maybe I'll go for a Silver Sable GSD for my first dog


try not to focus on color but find a good breeder that health tests their dogs and preferably works them. Describe the temperament you want and your experience level and let them set you up with a puppy they feel is best suited to your needs. Dont be surprised if you have to wait for more than one litter.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Chip18 said:


> If the owner spoke harshly to the dog ... the dog would turn around, go upstairs to the bathroom go in ... and slam the bathroom door closed???


It sounds like the owner taught the dog to do this..if so, how is the dog (breed) to blame? The dog must have had other behavior problems? What this something the owner originally thought was funny? (it is kind of)


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

*Pics of my Shilohs*

Heres a couple shots of my guys.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Whiteshepherds said:


> It sounds like the owner taught the dog to do this..if so, how is the dog (breed) to blame? The dog must have had other behavior problems? What this something the owner originally thought was funny? (it is kind of)


To be fair ... I did say one dog. 

She did have two and the second was starting to learn to do it! I saw it on Animal Planet ... "Bad Dogs" lots of Boxers were featured of course.

But the "Door Slamming Shilo ...had me rolling on the floor! >

Aww OK found it ... not the whole show but here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LMVdFdlxPk

Can't base a whole breed on one dog of course but pretty unique, the owners were pretty typical had no clue, had they asked me for advise of course I'd have said ... "Place Command" and "Sit on the Dog" no biggie. 

I would just console caution for someone looking, a Shilo, King Shepherd and a WL GSD are worlds apart, very different experiences. No insult intended. 0


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Whiteshepherds said:


> It sounds like the owner taught the dog to do this..if so, how is the dog (breed) to blame? The dog must have had other behavior problems? What this something the owner originally thought was funny? (it is kind of)


To be fair ... I did say one dog. 

She did have two and the second was starting to learn to do it! I saw it on Animal Planet ... "Bad Dogs" lots of Boxers were featured of course.

But the "Door Slamming Shilo ...had me rolling on the floor! >

Aww OK found it ... not the whole show but here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LMVdFdlxPk

Can't base a whole breed on one dog of course but pretty unique, the owners were pretty typical had no clue, had they asked me for advice ... of course I'd have said ... "Place Command" and "Sit on the Dog" no biggie. 

I would just console caution for someone looking that is undecided or looking at the GSD thing and did not say* "I want a WL GSD," *a Shilo, King Shepherd and a WL GSD are worlds apart, very different experiences. No insult intended. 0


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Chip18 said:


> But the "Door Slamming Shilo ...had me rolling on the floor! >


That really was funny, thanks for sharing the link. :smile2:


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

Onyxena your dogs are beautiful, thanks for posting the pictures, I'm definitely considering getting one next year.


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## mlw987m (Jun 5, 2009)

Chip18 said:


> To be fair ... I did say one dog.
> 
> She did have two and the second was starting to learn to do it! I saw it on Animal Planet ... "Bad Dogs" lots of Boxers were featured of course.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the video. The dog looks exactly like my GSD who passed away last month  I am currently looking at this breed, since I want a non-working line dog and cannot find one near me with any certified hips - The input on this thread is valuable. Thank you


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

mlw987m said:


> Thanks for the video. The dog looks exactly like my GSD who passed away last month  I am currently looking at this breed, since I want a non-working line dog and cannot find one near me with any certified hips - The input on this thread is valuable. Thank you


it's actually easy to find a non-working line with hips done. Possibly a showline dog. Even many pet line owners now at least do hips.

It's even harder to find a Shiloh with hips done. Not to mention one without a sketchy temperament.


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

I was introduced to the Shiloh GSD in the mid developing years. At the time i was deeply involved with Schutzhund and my dog became fully loaded with titles. Those who have persued this sport know we’ll just how difficult it is and how important the right dog is chosen. The washout rate is astounding. We train dogs here in the USA much differently than in Europe. Over there I found it’s a way of life. Here it is a casual week end training sport. Over there it’s every day or seemed to me that way. They have far more well trained dogs and make good livings exporting them to America. Eventually I gravitated into K 9 trading with law enforcement mostly because I could almost always find someone who wanted to train at any time of day or night. My GSD turned out to be much oversized at 100 pounds and almost 2” taller than standard. He was incredibly strong easily carrying 2x4 around to the point I had to take it away before someone got hurt.he ruined a new cylinder sleeve the first day we had it at the field. I was teaching him to help drag me if I was incapacitated. Accidentally got my ear and collar and yanked it hard causing a trip to the er. I don’t know if dogs feel remorse but he was glued to my side for days after that. I sewed a heavy handle on a jacket for him to pull on after that. I had not discovered military uniforms at that time. 
so now that I’m old and damaged I searched nation wide for a rescue Shiloh that I could trading or adapt to an assistance dog but there just was nothing available. The issue is even if I should find one, what happens if I drop dead one day? What are my relatives going to do with this huge dog. None have any idea of training or handling . I would make arrangements and provide for his support of course but still relatives would be lost and I’m afraid he would just be given off on craigs list or an animal control. This I could not do so I’m just out of luck now. I have a companion cat that is wonderful. I have made arrangements for her upon my passing so she will have a good home. There Is a very good training center just 5 miles down the road from me that I have trained at for quite a while . They don’t do cats however so I’m on my own with my kitty. She knows walking on leash and harness so far. But is a challenge as she likes praise but no treats or even table foods. A couple spoonfuls of skim milk is her only treat but I use it very sparingly as cats are not supposed to have milk as apprised to common belief. It would take a very special dog to be her family friend.
anyway I’m deeply envious of those of you who have these nice dogs. Good luck to all.

byron


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

If you’ll get your dog from a reputable rescue group in the event if something happens to you they will take it back, so don’t give up on it yet!


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