# Argggg!!!! Dog Attack!!!! Yet again ... but this time ...



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sigh yet again ... now my life time average on thwarted attempts has moved to 17 and on Rocky and I alone it's 13 or is it 15 ... starting to lose count??? 

But this time it was different! First it was daylight. I saw people out in there driveway playing ball as we approached and an open garage door down the sidewalk. All warning signs of a "possible dog on the loose??? 

So we cross the street, and proceed forward ... they acknowledge us and we exchange greetings and "Rocky" and I proceed my newly acquired "Walking Stick" in hand, I'm on point and "Rocky" is off leash following ... we move along. When ... suddenly I hear people screaming??? 

This time however "Rocky is not on leash and I can't get him to my rear, he's seen the dog first and was ready to intercept and "this time ... Rocky ... did not look happy! This ...could be bad .. Rocky is not a charger but he is an interceptor and I have not seen that look in his eyes in years!

The dog was already within feet of us when I whirled around and I had no time to shield Rocky,so I shouted Stay! And at this time a couple weeks ago, I would have had to face the charging dog down and shout and stomp my feet to deter him. But with Rocky waiting and ready this time ... I don't know how that past approach would have turned out???

This time however .. and following my own advice. I had my walking stick ... already in hand! As I whirled and accessed and gave "Rocky a stay command, the Walking Stick sprung into action. Pretty much in the blink of an eye ... the charging ... Pointy eared lab (just kidding it was a regular lab) was about four feet from us and I slammed the walking stick "Down in front of that dog to block him."  I did not expect the loud "thwack sound" and neither did that dog! 

I had no idea dogs could stop that fast but that dog hit the binders hard! Then I had to make sure "Rocky" remained where he was next to me. So another Stay was issued and he had no problem with that. The lady retrieved her dog and apologized. Real World proof of concept. 


So you know no firearms or sharpened weapons of death, no dogs or people injured, no LE .. no vet bills or stitches for anyone involved. It was just another day and as I learned ... most attacks occur close to home????


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Good job Gandalf! Lol


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LOL! Hysterical!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Is this "Big Dogs, The Sequel?"


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LOL, well I did not add the phrase ... but yeah.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I immediately saw gandalf too!! Way to go Chip!!

I use the same maneuver although much less serious..when I am hiking I usually use ski poles because I lose my balance easily. The deep snow has been making my young dog fruity and he gets zoomies and wants to pounce on the old dog. As he comes toward her I reach over her and stab the ski pole in front of her. He gives up. it's like my declaration of, I can reach this far to protect her and he's like crap. And veers off


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nice work! 
Gandalf- I am cracking up I'm glad I'm not drinking coffee!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You need to make your own YouTube channel. Big Stick Productions. Go back and recreate the same scenario with different sized dogs. Record each one and perfect your stick technique. We would all watch them.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

luvshepherds said:


> you need to make your own youtube channel. Big stick productions. Go back and recreate the same scenario with different sized dogs. Record each one and perfect your stick technique. We would all watch them.


lol!


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

You are the grey wizard of dogs!Glad it worked and ofcouse all your work with Rocky made it possible.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Hahahah! The Gandalf video reminds me of myself when Newlie wants to bring one of his old dirty "outside" balls in the house.


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## Rubi (Sep 21, 2016)

Nicely done Chip! I have now had three loose dog attacks in a period of only a few months - three different dogs -three different places - but ALL near our home! None of them got to the point to touch my dog though, but starting to get so irritated on the people not controlling their dogs. I think I need a Gandalf stick too !!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Great job! So glad all ended well.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I immediately saw gandalf too!! Way to go Chip!!
> 
> I use the same maneuver although much less serious..when I am hiking I usually use ski poles because I lose my balance easily. The deep snow has been making my young dog fruity and he gets zoomies and wants to pounce on the old dog. As he comes toward her I reach over her and stab the ski pole in front of her. He gives up. it's like my declaration of, I can reach this far to protect her and he's like crap. And veers off


Yes ... same deal and I did discover ... unintentaily that a "Walking Stick" helps with balance at night on even ground??? Not really a problem I have (balance issues but worthy of note.)

A "Ski Pole" would work also, what tool is quickest to deploy ... is whatever it is your hands ... at the moment. Bear Spray or an Air Horn ... could have worked also??? But even had I had them most likely ... they would not have been at hand???

I was slow by "seconds" Rocky was already ready to counter attack and the dog was almost on us! The "walking stick" was already in my hands and I used it "effectively!" Pretty sure on asphalt ... I'd have bent if not shattered an "Aluminum Pole" ... I was pretty ticked off.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Rubi said:


> Nicely done Chip! I have now had three loose dog attacks in a period of only a few months - three different dogs -three different places - but ALL near our home! None of them got to the point to touch my dog though, but starting to get so irritated on the people not controlling their dogs. I think I need a Gandalf stick too !!


Well ... great job thus far ... and near to home also?? Well that does seem to be thing??? 

I think with my Bullies it was two encounters total over about 10 years?? My puppy Boxer/Mix and Marilyn had something happen on a walk with Gunther?? And when I got ... "Rocky" crap started happening?? He and Struddell (far to the rear) the first time and encounters ... just ramped up from there?? And it's not him he pays no attention to other dogs. So my numbers 17 in about the last 4 years 97% are with Rocky???

But the walking stick ... I've given that advise for years ... but I never followed it. 

And using it to block a dog... was not my idea ... I saw it on "YouTube" part of a number of options, given by a trainer on "loose dog" encounters.:






I think he also recommends putting your dog in a "Down??" That is not something I would do myself. I don't "expect" a dog to get by me?? But if one did ... I want my dog on his feet. Hm and since one did at night ... Rocky being upright and to my rear ... was a good call. 

The "Walking Stick" ... even I was stunned at how quickly it came into play! You have seconds if your lucky and by the time I realized what was happening?? I no longer had yards of space I had feet and tenths of seconds. But that was more than enough, worked out fine.

To be successful in defending your dog however ... you have to have a well trained dog! If you have to content with your dog also ... most likely ... your in "how to break up a dog fight territory??" If your dog advances towards the "intruder" you've lost ... both time and space and now ... it's a dogfight! I'd just as soon ... not have that happen. A "Walking Stick and a well trained dog are "Non lethal countermeasures" ... you can't do better than that. And as of now ... "I won't leave home without one."


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> You need to make your own YouTube channel. Big Stick Productions. Go back and recreate the same scenario with different sized dogs. Record each one and perfect your stick technique. We would all watch them.


That's not really practical?? You'd have to have a trained dog to "replicate" and if you do that ... you'd lose the element of surprise. 

I did glance briefly at the Labs face and he looked ... stunned! But "Rocky" was my immediate next concern, he was in seriously ticked off full on ... "I am tired of this crap" attack mode but I repeated "Stay" and he did not progress forward ... he was impressive! But I give credit to the lady that owned the dog also ... she was ... right there to retrieve him and that put her within reach of "Rocky" also but most likely she did not even see him?? 

But the walking stick ... worked out well ... no dogs were harmed and my immediate "Walking Stick Block" response gave her time to retrieve her dog. It worked out fine, no dogs were injured ... she did say "Sorry" not sure if I said anything ... I was ticked off.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> You are the grey wizard of dogs!Glad it worked and of course all your work with Rocky made it possible.


LOL ...well thanks and yes "Rocky" did his part also. He was seriously ticked off and ready to throw down! I'd not seen that before becasue usually I see the "perceived" threat first. But that time ... I did not, Rocky responded first to the charge and was waiting to intercept! 

I had to close about five foot gap and got closer to "Rocky" I did that first the "Walking Stick" in my right hand ... was honestly an after thought?? But it came in front of me and the charging down ... honestly in a split second it was oh ... the walking stick and "thwack" there it was, ... even I was stunned! :laugh2:

But one has to have a well trained dog for the Walking Stick block maneuver to work. If you have to screw around with your own dog to keep them out of the fight ... a walking stick would be in the the way.


Now how I got him to "Stay" even under duress ... has to be back to basics??? Stay means "Freaking Stay" I most certainly did not go out to find stray dogs to charge at him and see what he does??? A "Bond of Trust" ... which was a challenge for us and training ... has to be the answer???
Pro "stuff" I suppose ... I don't know ... I just do.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I immediately saw gandalf too!! Way to go Chip!!
> 
> I use the same maneuver although much less serious..when I am hiking I usually use ski poles because I lose my balance easily. The deep snow has been making my young dog fruity and he gets zoomies and wants to pounce on the old dog. As he comes toward her I reach over her and stab the ski pole in front of her. He gives up. it's like my declaration of, I can reach this far to protect her and he's like crap. And veers off


Yes, I use Leki walking poles for stability for myself!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

maxtmill said:


> Yes, I use Leki walking poles for stability for myself!


Most likely that would work as a defensive tool also. But what matters most when seconds count is whatever you have in your hands.

My Walking Stick is 51 inches and I'm 5'10 if a "Walking Stick" is too short it could put you at a disadvantage. And I choose wood over "Aluminum" becasue I felt, wood would be a better option?? 

The one I got is pretty light, lighter that I would have thought ... no pun intended. But it held up fine! It came down with a loud "Thwack!!" It surprised even me ... you should have seen the look on that dog's face ... as they say ... "Priceless." 

If I would have gone with Aluminum ... I don't know if it would have made the same sound on impact and most likely I would have bent it??? I was not playing around, ..."keep your freaking distance dog" ... my point was made ... no harm to any parties involved ... you can't do better than that.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

maxtmill said:


> Yes, I use Leki walking poles for stability for myself!


I love them. If I don't use them, I fall like every single walk. Which totally sucks. My dogs are trained to do stability work in harness but that's their playtime...I don't want anybody to have to be working. I did train them to get me up with a tug toy. So in a pinch if I need help I can get out a toy and get a dog to help me.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I love them. If I don't use them, I fall like every single walk. Which totally sucks. My dogs are trained to do stability work in harness but that's their playtime...I don't want anybody to have to be working. I did train them to get me up with a tug toy. So in a pinch if I need help I can get out a toy and get a dog to help me.


Yes, I really love them, too, especially here in Costa Rica where the roads are bumpy and full of holes, with no sidewalks most places. Where there are sidewalks, they are uneven and full of holes, and the curbs are about an 18 inch step down. People in wheelchairs here actually ride on the street with the cars!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Once upon a time, long, long ago, we had a dog by the name of Princess. Princess was a shepherd mix that my mom brought home, that her aunt was feeding, stray in Cleveland, Ohio. She was about 9 months old when we got her. 

Anyhow, one day when I was out playing with her, and elderly fellow came walking down our street with a stick. Princess did not like the look of him, nor he her. She ran up to him. I was a kid at the time, and this could have been really ugly. He was in a combative position with the stick and kept poking the dog with the stick and she kept trying to get him, and I kept trying to get her collar. 

Finally, I snagged her, and dragged her off. The old man had gotten a few knocks in on her, and she hadn't gotten any teeth or claws on him, so I suppose he felt it was a wash and did not persue the matter. 

In any case, I was in the wrong for having a loose dog that decided it did not like someone walking down the street. But it seemed at the time, that the stick caused the whole problem. Of course, it is just as likely that without the stick that guy would have gotten injured. I dunno. I always thought that the dog saw the person with the stick as someone to be feared and fought. Perhaps as a stray, she encountered people with sticks. 

Glad you got yourself and your dog out of a jam without any injuries. It sure seems the dude in the video is willing to trust a slap with a leather or nylon leash in one instance, and is talking about heavy pipe, and hammering the dog in another. Glad I've not had to do more than yell at a dog to keep mine safe. I'd hate to have to carry weapons or sprays. I carried that OFF! that mailmen carry when I was riding my bike all night. Hit a doberman with it one time. The dog yelped and fell into a ditch. I kept going, and did not look back. The problem with that stuff is that if you keep it in your pocket, you might accidently spray yourself with it, and getting it out of your pocket while you are riding as fast as you can listening to toenails closing in on your back wheel is kind of like the rush you get on the down-slope of a roller coaster.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

selzer said:


> Once upon a time, long, long ago, we had a dog by the name of Princess. Princess was a shepherd mix that my mom brought home, that her aunt was feeding, stray in Cleveland, Ohio. She was about 9 months old when we got her.
> 
> Anyhow, one day when I was out playing with her, and elderly fellow came walking down our street with a stick. Princess did not like the look of him, nor he her. She ran up to him. I was a kid at the time, and this could have been really ugly. He was in a combative position with the stick and kept poking the dog with the stick and she kept trying to get him, and I kept trying to get her collar.
> 
> ...


I agree that the stick can cause problems. I have seen enough times where a dog would not bother anybody but somebody had to be a fool and start hefting or swinging a stick and it was game on, the dog perceived a threat where it previously had not.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> Anyhow, one day when I was out playing with her, and elderly fellow came walking down our street with a stick. Princess did not like the look of him, nor he her. She ran up to him. I was a kid at the time, and this could have been really ugly. He was in a combative position with the stick and kept poking the dog with the stick and she kept trying to get him, and I kept trying to get her collar.


Well thank you for that. It serves as a perfect example ... of what *"not"* to do. Had the old man used his walking stick "correctly" as I did/do and advise ... he could have "deescalate" the situation instead of "escalating" it by trying to poke the dog?? Used correctly, the dog would have been blocked, stopped and you would not have had to avoid being hit while trying to grab your dog. He made a bad situation worse by making "Poor Choices." Any tool improperly used can be abused ... nothing new there. 

And the iron pipe ... yeah I saw that ... it struck me as insane??? I'd just as soon not wreak carnage on a dog if given a choice. But that Trainer, also mentioned using a "Walking Stick" to block a dog. He just puts what he knows out there .. people are free to do with it as they see fit. I chose his walking stick option myself ... worked out fine.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I agree that the stick can cause problems. I have seen enough times where a dog would not bother anybody but somebody had to be a fool and start hefting or swinging a stick and it was game on, the dog perceived a threat where it previously had not.


LOL ... so now a "Walking Stick" is a poor choice ... becasue some dogs may have an issue with it??? Do those same dogs have problems with people with *canes*?? Sounds like a tough neighbor even to me.

The whole point of my thread .. is so that people won't be ... *"acting like fools and hefting and swinging sticks out there." *

I would suggest that if people want advise on using a "Walking Stick" correctly ... they try and find someone who knows how to use one correctly??? Oh wait ... that would be me. :grin2:


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I see lots of groups of young boys mindlessly swinging a bat after walking home from a baseball practice or games lucky though we dont have worry about many dangerous loose dogs- I can see where that would draw any dogs attention and can be dangerous. I never had to carry a weapon in all the years of walking my dogs through the neighborhood. A walking stick is a good idea when used normally and not ninja style but I would prefer something lighter. Many people need to walk with a walking stick my dad is one of them and should be walking his dog with a walking cane- sometimes he doesn't and I have to worry he may fall one day. In the other thread what to Carry on a walk -again saw where many people can not leave their house without fear of people or dogs and need to carry a gun and sounded like some people had to carry to be safe -is where I would get out of dodge if possible even though their are crazy people everywhere. Though there was some good ideas like a collapsible baton I thought a great idea, pepper spray or a spray bottle with amonnia.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

I used to carry a 'dog whacking stick' myself, back in the day when my first shepherd was continuously being attacked by territorial yard dogs. Used pro-actively, like whack, go away! it worked well. In a pinch, I've hit dogs. The dogs were NOT being friendly, they sensed fear in my dog and wanted to rumble. The stick worked just fine although I hated having to carry it.

As with everything, it depends on the dog and situation, or in this case, the dog, the neighbourhood and the other dogs.

It was horrible having to think that way though, so I am very thankful (crossing all fingers and toes while I say this) that the neighbourhood has changed and people are keeping their dogs contained. There are still dog walkers with sticks though, so somewhere, somewhen, someone is still being a total jerk with their dog; I'm taking a wait and see approach for now.


So, chip, yeah, good stick work.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> LOL ... so now a "Walking Stick" is a poor choice ... becasue some dogs may have an issue with it??? Do those same dogs have problems with people with *canes*?? Sounds like a tough neighbor even to me.
> 
> The whole point of my thread .. is so that people won't be ... *"acting like fools and hefting and swinging sticks out there." *
> 
> I would suggest that if people want advise on using a "Walking Stick" correctly ... they try and find someone who knows how to use one correctly??? Oh wait ... that would be me. :grin2:


Uh... I think it was Selzer that stated the stick could create problems. I just played a supporting role and added what my experience has been to hers. 

But since you are trying to prove the both of us wrong, don't you think that the experiences of *two* people who have encountered stick wielding fools directing at their German Shepherds creating a problem where there was none just might negate your one experience with a Lab that ended well?

I wonder if that would fall under breed characteristics?


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

newlie said:


> Hahahah! The Gandalf video reminds me of myself when Newlie wants to bring one of his old dirty "outside" balls in the house.


And what I've taken to doing when my dog wants to bring a raw bone into the house. NO. Raw bones are outside items.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

selzer said:


> I'd hate to have to carry weapons or sprays. I carried that OFF! that mailmen carry when I was riding my bike all night. Hit a doberman with it one time. The dog yelped and fell into a ditch. I kept going, and did not look back. The problem with that stuff is that if you keep it in your pocket, you might accidently spray yourself with it, and getting it out of your pocket while you are riding as fast as you can listening to toenails closing in on your back wheel is kind of like the rush you get on the down-slope of a roller coaster.


I can't imagine being coordinated enough to use a spray from a bicycle, but the risk of spraying oneself is why I have pepper gel. It's much easier to aim and it isn't as likely to hit me or my dog.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I agree that the stick can cause problems. I have seen enough times where a dog would not bother anybody but somebody had to be a fool and start hefting or swinging a stick and it was game on, the dog perceived a threat where it previously had not.


Apples and oranges. A dog that rushes someone to bark at them can easily be shaken off with surprise, by a stick, a loud noise or anything unexpected. A dog that is attacking for a purpose is not going to be knocked out of drive that easily.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

My method was similar, grab a handful of rocks, slam them on the ground in front of the dog to make as much noise as possible. If that didn't work, Draco was always there for backup. If anything did happen at least there were witnesses there!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Yes, apples and oranges but like others have also posted _before me_, a fool wielding a stick can be a problem in itself. There is another thread on here right now where an old man chose to wield a stick in a manner that might have been considered threatening to a dog, especially a breed like a German Shepherd. IME, this is more often the case, the stick is used offensively, rather than defensively, and creates problems.

As German Shepherd owners, we have to bear this in mind when advising people to carry sticks, there is a flip side to that coin.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Yes, apples and oranges but like others have also posted _before me_, a fool wielding a stick can be a problem in itself. There is another thread on here right now where an old man chose to wield a stick in a manner that might have been considered threatening to a dog, especially a breed like a German Shepherd. IME, this is more often the case, the stick is used offensively, rather than defensively, and creates problems.
> 
> As German Shepherd owners, we have to bear this in mind when advising people to carry sticks, there is a flip side to that coin.


I agree and that is what I meant. A stick can escalate a situation rather than diffuse it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think Cesar encourages the walking stick thingy. I think people feel more in charge when they have a stick, kind of like a shepherd leading the sheep and working with the dogs, or a hiker, using the stick in many ways. That confidence of having the stick, can in itself probably eliminate issues before they happen. Our own dogs will feed off of our confidence and have more trust in us. 

I was once in an arena decorating horses for a Christmas parade, when a young male broke free and started galloping through the arena. The owner of the barn was sitting in a lawn chair as the horse ran toward her, and she shoved her hand way in the air, probably making herself much bigger. The horse swerved and did not hit her. 

Not sure what my point is except that maybe there is a lot to be said about presence. That dog didn't want to tangle with you and your stick, even to get at your dog. That horse did not want to crash into the much larger moving thing when the hand went up.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Dear goodness.... The dangerous stick, heaven forbid someone carry one of those wretched things! You might poke your eye out!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dracovich said:


> My method was similar, grab a handful of rocks, slam them on the ground in front of the dog to make as much noise as possible. If that didn't work, Draco was always there for backup. If anything did happen at least there were witnesses there!


That works also ... but it's not ideal nor universal ... not many rocks laying around on sidewalks. 

That would be an improvisation ... and that can work fine ... if you have "time." And when dogs charge, time is a commodity ... you quickly run short of. Once you become aware that you have a situation ... you have to tell your dog to "Stay" and "Shield him" and ideally that should take your dog out of the situation and now it's all on "you."

At this point if one is walking there dog "tool free" there options become severely limited. What's worked for me in the past is a determined resistance. Shout Go Home, stomp your feet or yes the rock thing ... if you have them and if you can get to them. Last resort, tool free option would be kicking the dog. And that is hardly a contact free option. When dogs charge, is a pretty dynamic situation and time and space ... suddenly become in pretty short supply. 

Bear spray and or an Air Horn are ideal under the right circumstance and if you have "time" to deploy them??? But what get's deployed most rapidly ... will be whatever you have in your hands at the time and it's best if it is something that is both "efficient and effective." 

The "determined resistance" option ... worked out fine for me for many, many years (save for one notable assist from Rocky, I slipped on the ice while defending him) ... and most likely ... I'd still be doing it???

And then ... at night a dog just as determined to get to Rocky as I was determined to stop her ... did just that! And "Rocky" got nipped ... I could not stop that dog becasue I could not see her ... until the last second when she brushed past my thigh??? In that instant, I saw her and then ... I was out of options! I couldn't see her?? :surprise:

She was to close and to fast to kick once I saw her and Rocky got nipped! I screwed up ... I am pretty sure had I actually had a "Walking Stick" even in that tenth of a second and that freaking close ... I think I could have stopped her??? 

Lesson learned ... the next time (different dog) ... even with a shortage of time and space ... what "I had in my hand at the time" was used in an "effective and "efficient" manner to stop that dog. Everybody went home uninjured. I'm good with that.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I would have more luck working with my dog. If a dog were charging me and I told Draco to stay it would not mean anything to him, the times I have tried that he is too focused on the other dog and making himself look as big as possible. I purchased a break stick though in case things escalated at some point and Draco wouldn't let go of the other dog. Whether or not a dog is attacking me or Draco it's just a dog and doesn't deserve to be hurt.

Most places I walk do not have sidewalks and rocks are easily accessible. Someone in the comments of another recent thread mentioned bangers, I'm not sure how difficult they are to use but I'm sure they are especially effective on dogs. I wonder if popits fireworks would be as effective?

Another thing I tried a couple of times when my dog was off leash was slamming the prong collar on the ground at the end of my leash, it worked but if it didn't I imagine it would make a decent weapon 

If at all possible, I would catch the dog and take it to the local no kill shelter in hopes that if an owner was looking for it then that would be a wake up call to take better care of their dog, if there was no owner or the owner didn't care that dog would get a chance at a good home!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> In the other thread what to Carry on a walk -again saw where many people can not leave their house without fear of people or dogs and need to carry a gun and sounded like some people had to carry to be safe -is where I would get out of dodge if possible even though their are crazy people everywhere. Though there was some good ideas like a collapsible baton I thought a great idea, pepper spray or a spray bottle with amonnia.


The walking stick I got is to my surprise freakishly light??? Had I bought local ... I think I would have opted for something with a little more heft??? 51.5 inches long with the rubber tip on and it can't weigh much more than aluminium. It's about 4 inches or so below shoulders. I was surprised it did not shatter when I slammed into the ground ie "not freaking again!???" But it held up quite well! 

Pepper Spray should be effective as it also carries a propellent in it.
A spray bottle with ammonia ...maybe not so much. In addition to causing possible damage ... it's not gonna be to "effective" You'd be trying to aim it at a fast moving target ... good luck with that. 

I'd just as soon not have to injury a dog becasue he happen to choose the wrong target. And aside from that ... anything you have to reach for first ... will put you at a disadvantage. Crap ... goes down fast! 

That dog and Rocky were the first to know there was a problem here??? Rocky was already locked and loaded as it were, then the owner reacted ... as good as I am with "Situational Awareness" I was the last in the chain of events to realize .... there was a situation here??? 

But ...even being last in the chain of events ... I had the "proper tool" already in hand and I deployed it in the blink of an eye! Last to know and first to defuse the situation without harm to anyone ... you can't do better than that ... in my opinion.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dracovich said:


> I would have more luck working with my dog. If a dog were charging me and I told Draco to stay it would not mean anything to him, the times I have tried that he is too focused on the other dog and making himself look as big as possible. I purchased a break stick though in case things escalated at some point and Draco wouldn't let go of the other dog. Whether or not a dog is attacking me or Draco it's just a dog and doesn't deserve to be hurt.
> 
> Most places I walk do not have sidewalks and rocks are easily accessible. Someone in the comments of another recent thread mentioned bangers, I'm not sure how difficult they are to use but I'm sure they are especially effective on dogs. I wonder if popits fireworks would be as effective?
> 
> ...


Improvisation as it were does and can work! I'm not saying it can't but it is not the best option. But you also bring up a valid point. For a "Walking Stick" to be an effective deterrent ... you have to have a well disciplined dog! Without that ... most likely a "Walking Stick" would be in the way??? 

But if a "Dog" won't "Stay" when told to?? Then under a charging dog encounter, you have two dogs to deal with ... not just one ... the outcome then ... becomes uncertain?? 

I did not "specifically train "Rocky" to be cool as a cucumber under pressure from charging dogs but he is. I know what I did with him and it was free of treats, toys and distraction. And it was about people not dogs. I blocked people's access to him, if I encounter any may I pet folks. I merely stepped in front of him and his job was to do nothing! I never said a word to him.

He apparently kicked that up a notch?? And translated it to ... if "Dad" is in front ... I do nothing! He only broke that rule once (ie I was on my back ... Rocky ... well I've not seen that before ... he took charge) and I was glad he did ... but that's another story.

The other week ... I was a bit concerned ... because I was out of step ... I had no chance to shield to him! And he was ready to rumble!! But he still "Stayed" as he was told ... worked out fine. 

So I suspect ... that at the heart of "Rocky's" behaviour ... is a "Stay???" And base that suspection on a client's "Westie???" 

A prior E-Collar trained dog ... and I think hammered a little to hard?? Just a bit over submissive when greeting people??? Luv's people automatic set ... but something seemed slightly off?? The clients ... don't have a clue of how well the dog (a Westie) is actually trained ... but I did. So I took advantage of someone else's work and we had fun.

On a walk, once we ran into a charging stray ... and Val was off leash!!! I immediately told him to "Stay" while not really sure he would?? And I stepped in front to deal! To my delight and surprise "Val" ... did just that ... ie "Stay!" And he was not my dog so I did not train that??? 

That dog was no longer a thread once he saw me and since Val was in a "Stay." I was able to corral that dog back into his yard. The owners thought the gate was locked ... but it was not.

But at it's heart of my dog's calm under pressure and someone else's dog I did not train, who nonetheless behaved the same way as "Rocky" under threat ... I suspect ... is a dog will default to known behaviours regardless of "distractions??" 

Beyond that ... it's up to an "owner" to keep them safe.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

See, Chip, if I did what you did, the darn stick would make a half hearted blip on the sidewalk and then crack and break into something less intimidating than a flower. At least the pipe wouldn't break, but I would probably throw my back out raising it into the air, and then I wouldn't be able to hit a darn thing on the way down. 

No, I am much better with letting my wits, my voice, and my presence manage the roaming mutts. So far, it has not failed me. If it does, I guess plan B.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > In the other thread what to Carry on a walk -again saw where many people can not leave their house without fear of people or dogs and need to carry a gun and sounded like some people had to carry to be safe -is where I would get out of dodge if possible even though their are crazy people everywhere. Though there was some good ideas like a collapsible baton I thought a great idea, pepper spray or a spray bottle with amonnia.
> ...


I think you have to find what works for you i would not use anything that would damage or piss a dog off more. I think some dogs a water gun might work. The ammonia is sprayed in front of the dog not at it they don't like the smell. As I said before I do not use anything but you never know and often think maybe one day I may need something. I often just run out of the house and do notthink about it. I thought of silly string once never brought with me though.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> See, Chip, if I did what you did, the darn stick would make a half hearted blip on the sidewalk and then crack and break into something less intimidating than a flower. At least the pipe wouldn't break, but I would probably throw my back out raising it into the air, and then I wouldn't be able to hit a darn thing on the way down.


The pipe thing ... yes I saw that to and I considered it ... as being kind of insane??? The guy ... just as I said put all the information out there and people are free to do with his information as they see fit. He is also the first one that said (that I am aware of) ... "use a walking stick to block the dog's advances." I saw that years ago and to me it made sense ... but you know ... why bother??? 

And the "Walking Stick" you'd be surprised at how strong they are despite" the "freakishly light weight" of the one I have??? I was "seriously ticked off at having to deal with this crap ... yet again inside of three weeks!!! So my "Walking Stick" came down hard in front of that dog and even I was surprised by the dog's sudden stop and the sound the "Walking Stick" made when I blocked that dog?? I was ... "in are you freaking kidding me mode!!!!" But the "Walking Stick" ... held up fine.  



selzer said:


> No, I am much better with letting my wits, my voice, and my presence manage the roaming mutts. So far, it has not failed me. If it does, I guess plan B.


Yep and that worked out just fine for me for many, many years ... exactly from 2001 as a matter of fact. Confidence and determination worked out fine for more than a decade. My loose dog encounters ... ramped up with "Rocky" however, he just seems to be a loose dog magnet for some reason, my assorted bullies were not??? But for years ... confidence and determination ... worked out fine ... until they did not.

"Confidence and Determination" ... apparently only work under idea conditions??? And in less than ideal conditions ... I stumbled into a "Perfect Storm!" Total Darkness, no flashlight, no anti dog measures whatsoever ... other than my own self assure that "I got this." 

And I stumbled into a Dog that was just as self assured and determined to get to my dog as I was to keep her from doing so!! JoJo WL GSD (I met her later) ex MWD DDD and while in the dark ... the dogs I could see (behind a fence) did what I expected ie nothing but bark behind the fence... the dog I "sensed" JoJo who I could not see ... did not! While the others kept me busy, she got out and ... she went for her goal! My dog ... and she succeeded, one hit ... and she was gone in a flash! Most likely she realized, once I turned towards her, which was instantaneous, she brushed past my thigh. And I then turned and heard "Rocky" yelp! At that point ... she figured, I would be able to figure out where she was??? And she was outta there but ... she made her point and I got served!! 

But ... lesson learned, night walking ... carry a light source and a "Walking Stick!" I ordered one a week after that incident ... little did I know ... I would use it effectively ... two weeks later ... worked out fine. 

Mostly in a multi dog attack an air horn is a very good alternative?? I have also encountered that situation twice (more that one dog) the one time was "annoying and freaking ticked me off!" But those dogs did not charge! The other time ... yeah they were coming hard and fast and "Rocky" ...came to my aid! That was not my plan but it worked out fine. A "Walking Stick" would have been handy then also ... most likely I'd have not slipped on the ice, had I had one???


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> I think you have to find what works for you i would not use anything that would damage or piss a dog off more. I think some dogs a water gun might work. The ammonia is sprayed in front of the dog not at it they don't like the smell. As I said before I do not use anything but you never know and often think maybe one day I may need something. I often just run out of the house and do not think about it. I thought of silly string once never brought with me though.


I'll not argue but if the Ammonia ...is suppose to work by being sprayed in front of the dog??? In my considered opinion ... good luck with that ... just saying.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > I think you have to find what works for you i would not use anything that would damage or piss a dog off more. I think some dogs a water gun might work. The ammonia is sprayed in front of the dog not at it they don't like the smell. As I said before I do not use anything but you never know and often think maybe one day I may need something. I often just run out of the house and do not think about it. I thought of silly string once never brought with me though.
> ...


Yes it's worked for people. I think I just keep doing what I have been doing for some more then 30 odd years and just go for a walk hAve not needed a thing but thanks it's worked out for me so far. A walking stick worked for you so use that. Some people use and huge umbrella and open it up may startle the dog and help block your dog. I like to think of things if I have to perhaps one day bring something.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> Yes it's worked for people. I think I just keep doing what I have been doing for some more then 30 odd years and just go for a walk hAve not needed a thing but thanks it's worked out for me so far. A walking stick worked for you so use that. Some people use and huge umbrella and open it up may startle the dog and help block your dog. I like to think of things if I have to perhaps one day bring something.


OK ... if you are aware of situations where the spray bottle of ammonia thing has been effective, good enough. Maybe high desert, loose dogs are faster as the air here is thinner??? (yeah ... cheap shot ... I couldn't help it.) 

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind on what they use, do or don't, do under "loose dog encounters." I'm merely explaining a viable option for those who have to deal with this crap ... on a fairly routine basis??? I've gone beyond ... use a "Walking Stick." I stopped that dog cold, contact free, no fuss, no dogs harmed. She said "sorry" and mostly liked I mumbled "No problem" and off we went ... problem solved. 

I knew that dog lived there and there were more people out front that day than usual??? I spoke to them as we were in front of there house and there were no issues and then there was??? Most likely the more folks than usual was becasue they had company??? But that night ... despite there dogs "poor choices" they were not treating him for injuries. 

Most likely ... they were engaged in this discussion ... perhaps????


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

My 3 dogs before Draco WERE the roaming street dogs  two small puppies started following a jogger (who was a personal friend) so she walked them into our yard and told us they wouldn't stop following her, so we kept them because it ended up they were abandon at the neighbors house by one of his family members who was then in prison. The third was a young dog who wanted to play with our dogs (those two abandoned puppies, adults at this time) so she sneaked into our yard, was not welcomed by our two boys until we called them away from her. She was very underweight, in heat, half the fur on her face was burned off. 

I have also taken in two other adult roaming dogs, one I took to the no kill shelter and he found a home, the other was returned to his owner, even though tbh he wasn't a nice guy, I offered to buy the dog from him because I fell in love with the pup and he had said I could have the dog if it ran away again and came to me, but I had no legal rights and he seemed offended like I was saying he wasn't capable of owning a dog. He wasn't, it was the third time this dog ran away from his house, ran a mile down the street and stayed with us. It's funny, I had the dog for like two weeks and he didn't ever act like he wasn't my dog. I would load my two up to go get some coffee and go to the park, and he would be waiting and ready to go, so I'd let him hop in the car and go for a ride. My dogs instantly accepted him. I still miss him. I guess that's the risk when taking in wandering dogs, they might have owners, they might not, but there's something different when you have a dog that chose you compared to a dog you chose.

I try to help all the roaming dogs I can, if I can't catch them I post their location on craigslist and facebook and report it to the local shelter. Many are just scared dogs who don't know where they are, those ones aren't usually dangerous. The dangerous ones I have encountered are the ones close to home who are not contained in a fence, those ones think you're trespassing. Sadly here it's not illegal for a dog to be loose unless it actually attacks or runs through traffic.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Oh I've helped rescue a ton of strays over the years, a pack on one occasion a Shiba Inu, Jack Russel and Shih Tzu. They were about three houses away from the Hwy when I spotted them on the front lawn. Struddell I think barked??? She is was not a nuisance Barker ... if she barked ... something was up???

So outside I go and I was like three ... crap!? Best I could expect was to save maybe one??? So I called the closest and she came towards me and to my surprise/delight ... the others followed! Part one solved ... but ... I had a second problem ... I had to get them inside and my dog ignoring ... have not ever played with unknow dogs ... were already inside??? Since they ignored dogs ... they have never had a problem with unknown dogs and these guys I did not know. But taking a deep breath ... per Cesar. 

I took control ... told my dogs to stay (they were on there beds) and in we go! Worked out fine ... most likely they were "Dog Park Dog's?? The only one that had an issues was the Shih Tzu. She did not like "Gunther (American Band Dawg/former D/A) size??? So if he approached she would bark at him and Gunther would go ... "whatever" and play with the others. I let all the others outside and kept the Shih Tzu with me. She tried to greet one of the cats ... the cat hissed and she turned her back came to me and laid down! I looked down at her and thought ... wow cool dog! 

We did find there owners, parents not home but we asked if he had dogs ... he yes we have three dogs they are in the back yard. We said nope ... they are in our car. They traveled 2.5 miles from home. Yep sure enough they were his. We got them safely back home and everybody (my temp pack) had a great time. 

And a few weeks ago I rescued a "Breed that shall not be mentioned" and she was a sweetheart! I think following a windstorm her fence blew down?? We soooo wanted to keep her but "Marnly worked a bit to hard ... I felt to find her owners ... so we had to give her back. I did say ... if I find her again we'll keep her. But mostly if she disappears again ... this will be the first place he looks?? Hmm, should have met them on neutral ground.  

On another occasion yet another (breed that shall be mentioned encounter) but that time I was with Rocky, at night he was off leash and following me. I saw the dog under one of our generously spaced street lights. I called and he approached me in a friendly, manner. And then the dog saw Rocky approaching from out of the darkness and it flipped a switch??? 

The dog now started to charge! So now it's was uh oh defense mode! So I turned and told "Rocky to stay and I faced the dog. But ... this time ... Rocky did not stay??? He'd seen this crap before and the first time it happened, he put a stop to it, me slipping on the ice incident. This situation looked the same to him???

So he and I had different interpretations on this dog's intent??? I felt the dog was after Rocky and Rocky felt the dog was after me??? Rocky would not stay?? So now I turned my back on (the breed that shall not be mentioned) and had to repeatedly block Rocky, to keep him from getting to the dog!! Most likely that dog ... thought we were both nuts and disappeared into the night ... I hope he found his way back home?? But helping dogs and defending yours against them ... are two diffrent things. 

Thank you ... however for saving your guys ... that's pretty cool! I wanna (free) random chance dog myself. There are two members on here that found/saved/kept, two cool (free) dogs, one was abandoned most likely the White GSD and the other was found in an apartment trash can, an American Bulldog!!

Sigh ... I almost had (a free cool dog) ... but "Marilyn" I felt worked to hard to find her owners. We fell in luv with (Sally) almost instantly! She was freaking awesome to behold! Sometimes ... doing the right thing, just sucks ... but the year is still young.


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