# Nipped the kitty



## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I feel like I am missing something somewhere. It's been just over 2 weeks since we brought the new kitty home and the dogs just don't seem to want to cooperate. Every morning each dog gets about 10 minutes of treats with the kitty in close proximaty. The kitty likes to walk the kitchen counter (yes its gross but it's safe for kitty). Lots of praise & treats for being good.
Lakota just wants to play but she's so ruff and as soon as the kitty gets active, she kicks into high gear. No aggression so I'm really not too worried about her. Apache my almost 9yr old male is ok but doesn't like when the kitty is very active or if I hold the kitty, he can be snappy so I don't trust him yet.
My biggest problem is Kiya, my 7-1/2 yr old female. She's on meds for seizures, she's like dealing with a mentally challenged child. Last night she nipped the kitty's paw thru the crate, hard enough the kitten meowed. I was right next to her and although I do not hit my dogs I gave her a immediate correction with my fist to her shoulder and yelled out NO. Didn't seem to phase her in the least and she proceeded to nose the crate, I kept my hand by her mouth (stupid, I know) and didn't allow her to get too close to the kitty but she wanted to. I put her on the leash and kept her by my side. 
By the time I was done with dinner, got showered and sat down to relax before bed, everyone was laying quietly in the livingroom, including Kiya and the kitty in the crate. All within inches of each other.
I feel bad for kitty, Mr Magoo, having to spend the evenings in the crate. Here's his schedule 4:30am - 7:45am free, 7:45am-5:00pm bedroom and 5:00pm-4:30am crate. Of course weekends is more free time. I keep the dogs in the sunroom or outside when kitty is free. I keep telling myself its better than the town pound (its not a shelter in my book).
I can't let the kitty have toys in the crate, he gets too active and the dogs start in.
I want to make sure I am not doing anything wrong, I'll speak to my trainer too. All of my dogs have grown up with cats. Even our 11yr old cat Misty still doesn't like the kitty.
Hubby is starting to loose his patience, specially with all the claw marks on the sunroom doors. To top it all off Kiya had a seizure this morning at 4:20am, so it's going to be a long day. I refuse to give into Kiya, I will keep the kitty safe.
Anyone ever deal with a dog nipping a cat and eventually work thru it? 
To make matters worse, my husband says that before I get home from work, Kiya goes and lays down in the bedroom, doesn't mess with the kitty at all, not a peep out of her till I walk thru the door. I told him since I may be the problem get rid of me.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

wow I actually just added 2 small kittens to our home. I kept them in the crate at first then let them out. now its been a month and the kittens are climbing over the dogs and chewing on their tails.
Macy, our special ed shelter dog, did nip at the kittens thru the crate but once I let them roam free she slowly calmed down. I really thought she would eat them since she was literally drooling while watching them in the crate.
The other 2 dogs have a low prey drive so they only growl when the kittens chew on their paws then the kittens run away.
When the kittens dart around the 2 female dogs leap up to chase them but I correct them right away to break their focus. It's been pretty good. 
If Sasha was still here, I don't think there would be any way to have a cat.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

You have only been doing this for two weeks.

Dakota is three and I would say for the last year she has become good friends with my tabby. It took two years for them to warm up to each other and it had more to do with the attitude of the cat that my dog. We came home from a camping weeking and there was kitty sleeping in her dog kennel. He didn't move, he just looked at her and she accepted him. Now he rules the house. LOL.

If my cat would run, she would chase. If he runs and she chases, I correct, or more times than not, the cat stops running, gives the dog "that cat look" and she backs off.

My other cat, forget it. He is not the right temperment for the dog. He is too timid and unsure of her. My solution and I did this from day one when we got the dog was to never allow her upstairs. Upstairs is for the cats. At night when she is in her kennel, the cats will come downstairs. Cats are nocturnal anyway. So while the dog sleeps the cats like to play and when the dog is out and about the cats mostly sleep.

Anyway it took a long time to get to this stage.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

OK so you give me hope!! Both my girls have very high prey drive, my male doesn't. I think he's being an idiot becuase of the girls. None of my dogs are vicious & mean they are just being difficult. I know I can get thru this. 
Hopefully by the time a month is up I will be telling about the kitty climbing on the dogs (I hope)! I've been keeping my eyes on the dogs so taking pictures hasn't been a priority. I'll try to get some tonight if everyone behaves.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Yes, it can be a slow process. I might add: make sure to give your dogs lots of attention/exercise and work on the "leave it" command, just in case you need them to stop on a dime.
Meika and Max respond immediately to recall and, well, Macy...umm... not so much.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

*pics of Mr Magoo the kitty*

Heres some pics of the new kitty. He has a bad eye from herpes. I've been putting ointment in his eyes, the vet said it may get better, he has no problem seeing thats for sure.


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

At my house, I have a GSD, a Beagle, 2 cats and a parrot. The dogs are not allowed to look at the cats or the parrot. 

Of course a passing look is normal, but when it's a stare like I see your dogs doing in a couple of the pictures, I don't allow it at all, no matter the body language because this just starts it up and leads to no good. When the cat darts away or off the counter or a paw through the bars under that stare, it's going to incite prey drive (nipping). You also just want to set the bar for your dogs. No lookie at zee cat!

You may want to consider breaking that focus as well as the other things.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

We've really made a lot of progress with Lakota & Apache. Both can be free in the house with the new kitty (supervised of course).
However, Kiya is still being obstinate. Keeping in mind the damage that the combination of meds & seizures over the years have left her playing with less than a full deck of cards. There have been moments where she can be calm, relaxing without fixating on the kitty. Most of the time in the morning, during the day (if were home all day) or when I am not home. My husband says when he comes home, she will go lay in the bedroom until I come home from work, thats when she begins to bark at the crate, pace. It seems that every night I can't get her to settle down from fixating on the kitty. Mind you that my other cat, Misty is loving life right now the dogs totally ignore her. Last night we gave Kiya a little freedom, I'm afraid were building fustration by keeping her from touching the kitty. Misty was on the couch & the kitty was higher up on the back of the couch. Kiya walks by Misty and nudges her (abruptly) with her nose, while walking by. Misty stood up & wacked Kiya back. She continued being obnoxious so I took treats out, everyone in a down stay while kitty walked about.
Every morning I sit with her & keep her in a down stay, the kitten can be inches away (on the floor with me or on my lap) and she won't break. I let the kitty walk the counter "usually" she leaves him be, today I let her be to see what she would do, she tried to pull the kitty to her, he didn't cry and I was right there so I corrected her (verbally & grabbed her to pull away).
If she hadn't "nipped" him as hard as I think she did in the very begining, she got his paw thru the crate, I would trust her more. She's usually a brute so to speak. Hubby nick named her "Tank". I think she could have gotten him by now, I don't know if the mouthyness is just too ruff or is it leading up to breaking skin. She can be gentle taking treats or sometimes you feel those teeth. I really can't read this dog. I have seen Lakota get inbetween her & kitty clearly giving calming signals. Apache just goes somewhere else to laydown, he doesn't like stress.
I know it could take a long time to get over this, I think I am doing things right. Hubby is clearly running out of patience with Kiya. He thinks I should just be able to make her comply. Unfortunately she doesn't seem to what to, at least not right now.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

suka really good advice i do not like staring either


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

kiya said:


> Heres some pics of the new kitty. He has a bad eye from herpes. I've been putting ointment in his eyes, the vet said it may get better, he has no problem seeing thats for sure.


He looks like my tuxedo cat Figgy. He is adorable.
My girl loves the tuxedo cat, and is leary of my tabby cat as he can be kind of intimidating when he wants to be. We call him Mafia Cat. He will bite if you stop petting him .

Stella loves Figgy , but I have to keep an eye on her with him because she gets so excited around him and wants to paw at him.

You can see her on the left hanging by the door, my neighbors cat loves to hang out and look in...lol.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Well it's been over 2 months that we've had the new kitty and I'm at a standstill with any progress with Kiya. The only time she doesn't seem to pursue the kitten is when he's laying quietly or sleeping.
Lakota & Apache are fine with the new kitty, my other cat Misty still doesn't like him he's always trying to play with her she couldn't be bothered. Of course when she gets mad and growls or hisses ramps Kiya up.
My husband tells me she doesn't even look at the crate or kitten until I walk in the house. I started letting Mr Magoo out after dinner while I have Kiya on leash. If I gate him off in the kitchen she doesn't seem to care until he starts looking to come into the livingroom. Of course he has to walk right in front of her or run past her. If Lakota tries to play with him she starts to bark at him. So to keep the "calm" we put Lakota on leash and don't allow her to play or "follow" the kitty around. Mr Magoo has a bit of the zoomies and he's all over the place. By this time Kiya is sounding a bit aggressive with her bark, there's no changing her mood now. Before we get frazzled I take the dogs out for a potty break, put the kitten in the crate and they are done for the night.
I've thought about putting Kiya in the crate, but I don't think it's right. I found an article on the web http://www.sfgsrescue.org/articles/cat.htm
and it says:
3) *The dog must accept its owner as "alpha" and take its cue on how to treat the cat(s) from the owner. The owner, however, should not be perceived as "possessing" the cat*. I'm not sure what that means. I do not fuss over the kitten in front of her. I try not to show any emotion toward him that could make her jealous.
My trainer has described Kiya as "pushy". I haven't spoken to her about this "yet". I guess I didn't think it would be such an issue. In all that I have learned if there was a chance that Kiya doubted my leadership, I have tried to reestablish that although I don't take it to the extremes.


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## RedCrown (Feb 23, 2005)

I don't know how much help I'll be with this, but you can take it with a grain of salt since a few people will likely think this is extreme. 

Since you have been working with her patiently and in steps for so long and are now at a standstill, it may be time to try another method. 

My GSD Friday has a tenuous relationship with our cat. She loves the kitty, but sometimes will get obsessive and love the kitty a little TOO much and get that fixative stare and follow him around. If I don't correct her, it'll escalate to snap/mouth the kitty. 

I also don't allow her to fixate on the cat. If she gets stare-y I'll verbally correct her to snap her out of it. If she ignores me and starts whining at the cat- in the crate she goes. 

If I don't notice the behavior escalating and all of a sudden I see her lunge toward the cat- it becomes a very sad day for Friday. She gets a "come to jesus moment" (because if she ever killed my cat, I likely would send her to Jesus). This moment includes a hellish corrective yell from myself and is accompanied by "scary mom" stomping over to her and physically take her by the collar into the crate. Yes, I know the crate is used for punishment and isolation in this circumstance, but it works and she doesn't have any crate issues. It is a relatively harmless, but big, loud, and forceful production meant to immediately associate her behavior with something scary. 

She has to be reminded of this occasionally, but I feel that if we didn't have those "reminders" her behavior would escalate as she ignores me totally when she is in her obsessive mode.


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## RedCrown (Feb 23, 2005)

I have 2 pit bulls that have no issues with the cat whatsoever. He is a big, fluffy cat that never runs, nor provokes her, nor swats. 

I don't see it (and neither do the dogs, I think) as the cat as "my possession"- that is reserved for things on the coffee table that they'd better not take. The cat is his own separate entity that best be ignored, because I as mom says so. I honestly don't think it needs to go any deeper into the dog's psyche- they had best behave nicely, and if they emotionally or physically can't, then they get separated from the situation. I think that if you start using the crate for isolation immediately after your dog starts ignoring the "leave it" command, she will start to get the picture that harassing the kitty = separation from kitty AND family. It doesn't seem like she's had any negative reinforcement for this behavior, and it seems warranted at this point.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

RedCrown said:


> *they had best behave nicely, and if they emotionally or physically can't, then they get separated from the situation*. I think that if you start using the crate for isolation immediately after your dog starts ignoring the "leave it" command, she will start to get the picture that harassing the kitty = separation from kitty AND family. It doesn't seem like she's had any negative reinforcement for this behavior, and it seems warranted at this point.


Normally once out of the puppy stage, I don't crate, but whenever the crate comes out all the dogs seem totally fine and periodically they will go inside of thier own free will. Since the crate has been converted to a cat crate, I took the litter box & bed out the other morning, asked Kiya to go in, no problem gave her a chewy she was happy. Laid there chewing, kitty was loose. All was fine till he started running around, Kiya started acting up. So I was glad she accepted the crate but thier was no way to stop her pawing and barking thru the crate. I will try a cover over it next time. Usually I stay calm and remove her from the room when she barks at the kitten in the crate. I put her in our sunroom but I have to block the glass door because she pounds the door. All I need is for her to bust the glass door.
Last night, I put the kitty in the kitchen with the gate up. Kiya was laying right there, for a while, then the second she barked I got up put the leash on and made her down by me. All was fine until the kitty decided he didn't want to stay in the kitchen by himself. My other dog, Lakota wants to play but that just triggers Kiya, so I put her on leash as well and hubby held her. 
We actually ended up sitting quietly for at least an hour before I ended the session (on a good note). The kitty doesn't help because he comes up close to her, almost taunting. 
I never had an animal not accept another in my house, normally after the first week or two life resumes as normal. Hubby is really starting to loose his patients (he doesn't have much to begin with). I told him I am doing everything I possibly can. 
As far as the tone of voice, I can sound pretty bad, but when she goes into that state of mind it doesn't phase her. Her nick name is "Tank" specially since her hind end is weak she compensates with her front end.
I have contimplated trying a muzzle on her, she doesn't like it but will tolerate it. I know they can come off, I wouldn't give her an opportunity, I have the plastic basket type & the nylon one. My fear is she'll smush the kitty. I have to make more liver brownies, thats the only thing that breaks her fixating. I'm not giving up the kitty, so there's no option but to get thru to her or deal with management.


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## RedCrown (Feb 23, 2005)

I guess I should have specified that our dog crates are located in the garage. True isolation from the comings and goings of the house. Confinement where she can still see the kitty and your other dog playing might only frustrate her and not enable her to understand the reason for her separation. 

I think a muzzle is a good idea. A bit of negative reinforcement for her, and reassurance that she won't at least be able to chomp the kitty.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

We have a small house, the crate is in the livingroom now. So the sunroom is my only option for isolation. Theres no heat in there so it's almost like being outside. As long as I cover the glass sliding door with a sheet so she can't see inside, when she settles down I wait a little then I bring her back in. 
I have noticed a few times when all of us come in from a potty trip she doen't always have to charge the crate. I praise her for that. 
Over the weekend I will try the muzzle a little.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

i have a rescue dog, a foster dog, and 2 cats.

pecking order is 

me > cats > dogs

for the first month/s dogs are crated. cats are allowed to roam. ANY peaked interest in the cat is met with firm corrections (mine correct fine verbally, you may have to leave a leash on them and have it come out of hte crate.
cats are very much the weaker, and have to be above the dogs in the pecking order, and it's up to you to ensure that cats safety. 
sounds like your dogs are competing for your attentions and don't want the cats to have it. you have to make sure they understand that they will receive very strict, and firm corrections should they try and get your attention when you have the cat.
again, the cat > dog. it has to be that way for the cats safety.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

We started leaving the kitten free at night about 2 weeks ago. Since Kiya is confined between the wall and my side of the bed we tried it out. No problem. It was funny the kitten was under the bed and Kiya didn't know untill after I put the gate up. At least he knows where she is when the lights go off. So last week we took the crate down, this saturday I put it back in the basement!
I still don't trust Kiya and have to be on top on her every move, but I can say that for the most part peace & harmony has been restored to our house! Hubby is thrilled that the crate is out of the livingroom.
Kitty is enjoying sleeping in our bed at night.


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