# Visiting the Vet - RAW food



## Crazyz250 (Nov 24, 2014)

Hey guys, my 1yr male GSD is due for his annual next week. I have had a lot of problems getting him to eat his kibble and finally made the commitment to the raw food once I found a great supplier.

I am still having problems getting him to eat even his raw food but I am not going to get into that. My vet knows very little about raw food and when I bring him in I am going to get hit with "don't feed him anything you wouldn't eat" or "its full of bacteria" feedback

So I am looking for a little hard evidence that I can present to my vet to justify my decision for my dog (not that I have to, but I want to). They are an excellent vet and well known so I am not switching vets, but they are just not educated on this topic and fully support the commercial kibble.


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## Crazyz250 (Nov 24, 2014)

To go along with the bacteria thing, I understand the raw food moves faster through the digestive track but Id like some specific info on how dogs can handle bacteria better then humans.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Crazyz250 said:


> My vet knows very little about raw food and when I bring him in I am going to get hit with "don't feed him anything you wouldn't eat"


Aha...but isn't raw much more similar to the diet us humans eat versus kibble to a degree? I just enjoyed some beef carpaccio the other night and I'm still standing. There are probably more humans eating various raw sushi items than ever. Equating the human diet to a canine's diet and then asking if a human would eat the same as a dog is a non sequitur as is the inference regarding the bacteria and the comparing of the human and canine digestive systems. Both have nothing to do with comparing a human and a canine, except at the most basic level.

A dog's digestive tract length and stomach acidity are greatly different than humans. Bacteria, schmacteria....a dog can drink from a toilet, pond and puddle in the street and rarely ever miss a beat.

Oh, I enjoy chocolate and many other items considered "human food" and would never feed it to my dog.

If your vet goes off on "it's full of bacteria" because it's either bad for the dog or the human, due to handling it....I might look for a new vet. I'm sure your vet is smarter than barking up that tree.

SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Crazyz250 said:


> To go along with the bacteria thing, I understand the raw food moves faster through the digestive track but Id like some specific info on how dogs can handle bacteria better then humans.


Dog's PH level in it's stomach is much lower than a humans.

" The gastric acidity (gastric PH) of the stomach of a dog or cat eating a diet predominantly made up of raw meat is very low (very acidic), with a PH of 2 or lower (relative to the level of meat protein). This highly acidic environment favours the breakdown of raw meats, and raw bones, into soft digestible material. The low PH also is highly effective at killing bacteria, particularly potentially pathogenic bacteria like salmonella spp, clostridia, campylobacter and E Coli. So the natural ‘wild” diet of dogs an cats has evolved a gastric environment that favours the breakdown of raw meats, raw bones, and a PH that kills potentially harmful bacteria – consistent with the requirements of carnivores, and in particular, the scavenging nature of dogs."

SuperG


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

pH and much shorter digestive tract than a human, food travels through much faster and the acidity of the stomach are why they can eat rotten food without problem that we cannot. Kibble actually slows down digestion, because its harder to digest, which was mentioned. Thats the reason behind the theory that you cannot mix kibble and raw, because the kibble slowing down the digestion could allow issues with the bacteria. This is much debated if its actually an issue in real life though.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

This is not hard evidence but rather common sense.... it may be more likely that a human would get a bacterial infection from handling raw human food than a dog from eating raw dog food, depending on what type of raw you are using. People often eat meat that has undergone far more processing (like ground beef) and this is how meat gets contaminated. Meat does not contain harmful bacteria just because it is raw, the bacterial has to *get* to the meat to contaminate it. If you are feeding large chunks of raw and things that have not been processed, there is a much lower risk of contamination. Same for how many hands are touching the meat. Many people who feed raw get meat from local sources like farms or butchers while meat that is at a big box store has been processed, packed, shipped, unpacked, etc. The meat coming from the source or a place closer to the source means less contamination.


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## Crazyz250 (Nov 24, 2014)

Excellent info here guys and it is very well put together.

So here is a question about the processing. I got all of my beef, tripe, chicken necks etc. from a local supplier who gets it direct from a local farm - easy enough.

She hoever doens thave access to chicken quarters for whatever reason, so I go to Bjs and buy the Perdu quarters for 95 cents/lb. Excellent price and they come pre packaged in freez bags - win! How are these chicken quarters handled, arnt they washed in part chlorine and higher in salt then from a direct farm?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

YOu can have the vet lecture you and tell him/her it is OK to disagree or find one that respects you. My vet told me: "whatever you are doing, it seems to work well". She knows I feed raw but she cooks for her own dogs. 
Or ask this very same question, "how is he doing with whatever I am doing?"


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Don't try to educate your vet. It won't go over well. 

There is no reason to say what you feed your dog. There is no reason to say you feed RAW. Why should it come up? If the dog looks healthy, there should be no talk about what you feed the dog. If the dog does not, then maybe the RAW feeding isn't working for your dog. If the reason you are going in is because the dog won't eat, then asking for your vet's advice while being ready to defend what you are doing is just asking for conflict, and it won't end well. 

There is NO reason for your vet to know what you are feeding your dog. Don't volunteer the information. If he/she asks tell them. If after they brought it up, they start to have a hissy about it, just say, "it isn't up for debate." Or similar words to simply say that you are not open to discussing or changing what you are doing. If they continue on after that, find a new vet, they do not respect you at all.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I don't think I've seen a vet who didn't ask what I fed my pet at each appointment.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lin said:


> I don't think I've seen a vet who didn't ask what I fed my pet at each appointment.


My vets never ask me what I feed.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

your dog, your choice, you don't have to justify anything to the vet. You can be nice about it...but they don't get to control when you fix your dog or what you feed your dog...two of the things that most vets tend to be pushy about.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

My vet through somewhat casual conversation explores what I feed my dog. Sometimes, I have been tempted to just say the brand they are selling out in waiting area/lobby and I'm most certain I would hear a "...wonderful....". But, I simply tell it like it is for good reason I guess. Any opinions regarding the health of my dog are of concern, especially from educated professionals in the particular arena.....doesn't mean I heed their advice but it prompts me to make sure my position is best for my dog via further due diligence on my behalf....since I have an "investment" in my pooch.

I'm fairly certain my vet isn't an advocate of a raw diet but since she understands I will continue to feed my dog raw...her advice is to make sure it is " balanced".

Of course I ask the obvious question...." Is my girl healthy?" I hear.."yes". I continue what has worked....diet included.

If a raw fed dog is exhibiting obvious deficiencies and a potential remedy was diet related....I'd be all ears...but I guess until that point comes, I'll continue my dog's raw diet.

SuperG


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

your vet is full of bacteria !
more bacteria than human DNA.
look how many threads there are on this forum with dogs eating poop --- 

kibble has bacteria .


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I don't discuss diet with my regular allopathic vet. Not his area of expertise. I do discuss diet with the chiropractor/holistic vets.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Hans has seen four vets over his almost 3 years.

Three of them have asked when I feed, because they were admiring his coat and physical condition. Upon hearing what I feed, they voiced their disapproval and began to try to lecture me on the evils of a raw diet, when they had just complimented me on how great the dog looked. :shrug:

I smiled and said "Oh?" And didn't say much else. Their job is to advise me, my job is to either take their advice, or disregard it. 

I wouldn't feel comfortable lecturing a medical professional. It is not my place to educate them, or argue with them.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

The only time my vet asked what I was feeding was when my pup was much younger. He didn't like my choice (it wasn't Hills or SD), but I didn't respond and kept going. He's never asked again. He knows I'm going to do what I think is best for my dog-I take his advice on medical issues-and my own advice on feeding.


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## Crazyz250 (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks for all the input guys! I am not trying to educate the vet but I am interested in hearing what he has to say about my best friend, he is the professional. That being said, based on my previous experience I do know that they are not well versed in feeding raw which is why I sort of wanted to be able to stick up for us raw feeders. Not because I have to but because I want to. 

Hawk is doing excellent and his coat is super shiny! Although he is still a picky eater even with the raw food he gets what he needs.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

wolfy dog said:


> YOu can have the vet lecture you and tell him/her it is OK to disagree or find one that respects you. My vet told me: "whatever you are doing, it seems to work well". She knows I feed raw but she cooks for her own dogs.
> Or ask this very same question, "how is he doing with whatever I am doing?"


This is the conversation I had with my old vet. We will agree to disagree at times. I always listened to what he had to say, sometimes agreeing and sometimes not. As long as your vet can respect that, the disagreement itself is no reason to find a new vet.

My vet has now retired and leased out his practice to a young girl who told me Gus was the best conditioned GSD she had ever seen. Could not get over his coat condition, asked what I fed him. After stating he was on a raw diet she stated "your going to kill him AND your family". I am looking for a new vet. My only response was "you must be vegan" which in hindsight was childish on my part. She also gave him a combination vaccine after I had said no, I did not know until after when I was paying my bill.

It really is not easy finding a vet you can trust and is willing to listen to your opinions without admonishing you.


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