# Hemangiosarcoma?



## rockhead

I've searched the forums for this to no avail.

My 7.5 y/o male just had an emergency splenectomy after bleeding was detected in his abdomen and an ultrasound showed a mass on the spleen, but didn't show anything on any other organs. Sure enough, the grapefruit-sized tumor had ruptured. The surgeon explored the liver, lungs, heart, and kidneys and saw nothing. He yanked the spleen, took a liver biopsy, and Eich made it through the night with only a little arrythmia.

The surgeon is guarded about the appearance of the tumor. He said he's seen hundreds and can usually spot a malignancy, but this one is not clear. The specimens have been sent out and it may take 7 days for results.

I've probably used my months worth of bandwidth allotment studying canine spleen disorders in the last 12 hours. I've learned about Hemangioma and the dreaded Hemangiosarcoma. Now, I'm no oncologist, but it seems to me that a grapefruit-sized tumor has been around for awhile. Anything that size would have surely metastisized if it were malignant, right? I mean, malignant growths are typically 1-2 cm's before the patient is overcome. I should mention that this dog is highly active and was perfectly normal until the yesterday morning when he seemed weak and would not eat.

Any opinions/comments/experiences would be greatly appreciated.


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## WiscTiger

I am sorry to hear about your dog. The good thing is he had the surgery to remove the spleen. 

Here is a link on this board about Hemangiosarcoma.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=469332&page=13#Post469332

Wishing you the best news. 

Val


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## mmmontgomery

I am so sorry to hear about your boy. I lost my beloved Daisy to hemangiosarcoma (HSA) in 2005. She had an undetected tumor that ruptured and was removed and biopsied. The results of the tests were negative for HSA; she died less than a month later when she started bleeding again and they found that the cancer had covered her insides. I learned that there are a significant number of false negatives.

HSAs grow quickly but as I understand typically don't metastasize until they rupture. Then the cancer cells are seeded in all the internal organs and take off like wildfire.

My best advice is to brace yourself. Please forgive me for being direct, but I was led to have hope where little existed, and I was not prepared when I lost my girl. HSA is wicked, wildly aggressive, and unless things have changed in the last 3 years, current chemo treatments only add days, not years. 

THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT THERE IS NO HOPE BUT YOU MUST ACT QUICKLY! I DO suggest that you look into the Navy protocol - see link:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-07-24-cover-cancer_x.htm
You are fortunate to live in a state with some mighty fine vet schools. Or perhaps you could take him to Tufts in Boston. But if you intend to take action, DO NOT DELAY. DON'T WAIT FOR THE TEST RESULTS. CALL THEM TODAY!

Here is a link to a website that discusses alternative therapies and any and every piece of advice about HSA, and the thread I participated in (sorry, this is the link I have bookmarked, but you can get to other threads from there. It will be painful to read.) http://theherbs.info/Pets/jennifer.html

One favor...PLEASE, PLEASE see links below about sharing some of your dog's blood with researchers studying HSA. We lose dogs so quickly to this wretched disease, and researchers need samples from dogs with the disease to be able to create diagnostics and cures.

http://www.broad.mit.edu/mammals/dog/vet_samples.html
http://www.wearethecure.org/research-grants-we-have-approved-to-fund
These are 2 I could locate quickly. Perhaps your vet or oncologist will know how best you can help. I wish I would've known about these before Daisy died. It pained me that I missed that opportunity to give her heartbreaking loss some meaning.

You are on top of this from the get-go, and that may make ALL the difference for your dog, and hopefully many others. I hope you will be fortunate to change the future for all of us.

My heart goes out to you.


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## Karin

First of all, I'm so sorry to hear about your dog's problems. Just to give you some hope, though, our first dog was thought to have a hemangioma in her spleen that metastisized to her brain, resulting in grand mal seizures. The ultrasound showed a mass on her spleen and the doctor was certain that it was a hemangioma. I had done a lot of research and was hoping that the mass in her brain was a meningioma (benign tumor).

They removed the spleen, had it analyzed and found nothing cancerous. And the tumor in her brain was, in fact, a meningioma. We had it removed and she recovered just fine.

I hope that your boy is fortunate as well. He's very handsome. He looks so noble in the first picture.


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## rockhead

Upsy, thank you for a very informative reply... I will be following up with some of these recommendations with the vet when I speak to him this afternoon. I don't have any form of pet insurance, so this ordeal is going to break my back. So be it.

I appreciate your candor and I haven't deluded myself into thinking that he's coming home tonight and all will be OK, but I'm hanging on to hope that the biopsy will be negative. Again, the sheer size of this mass has me thinking it cannot be malignant.

We saw Eich this morning (I know, I know...) and he looked better than I expected. He was still lightly sedated and plenty sore, but he recognized us and reacted when my wife accidentally said (to me) "Let's go". His eyes were clear and his gums pink. I can't believe he's sick, but I've been preparing for the worst since being told he was in trouble about 27 hours ago. He's not coming home today, and maybe not even tomorrow. There's still a heart rhythm issue that (I'm told) is common following a splenectomy. 

I can't write any more about this right now... I'm a total wreck. I just dug up this goofy shot of him that I took exactly 6 months ago on his 7th birthday (Note the bow on his collar and the candle on the Milk Bone!) I'll keep you all posted... thanks for your thoughts.


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## Kayos and Havoc

Hoping the best for you guys! Eich is such a handsome guy!


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## arycrest

Gosh, I'm so sorry to hear that Eich may have hemangiosarcoma, I hope and pray the biopsy shows the tumor is benign.

I started that HEMANGIOSARCOMA thread Val linked to this thread, in October 2007.

On May 23, 2008, my dear Ringer, who would have been 13 in a month, was diagnosed with hemangiosarcoma of the heart. The thread I started about it was moved from the SENIOR DOG forum to the IN LOVING MEMORY forum and locked, but I just checked and it's still around.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=693664&page=3#Post693664

Kelly who was 12-1/2, had an ultrasound done of his digestive system on July 31, at a specialty hospital in Gainesville, FL. They found that his gall bladder was about to rupture, however, the doctor also suspected something was wrong with his heart and did a few tests, including an EKG. She was fairly certain that he had a hemangiosarcoma tumor in his heart, however, I declined her offer to do an ultrasound on it because he was so sick from so many other health issues I had to have him put down that afternoon.


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## mmmontgomery

Rock, they can recover very quickly from the splenectomy, so hopefully Eich's arrhythmia will resolve and he can come home soon. I was amazed. Daisy had surgery on a Saturday morning, and she was up by Saturday afternoon. We brought her home Monday morning, and with her pain meds, she never seemed to be too terribly uncomfortable. I wish I had her fortitude. After 2 weeks, she was her old self again...for about a week. Oh, it was a horrible time. I'm so sorry you have to experience this. I hate hemangiosarcoma.

Be sure and speak with your vet about the false negatives. I don't mean to press, but in my case, with such good news, I was ready to put the whole episode behind us and was so grateful...only to have the world come crashing down 3 weeks later. And I'd never tried any of the things I'd found because I didn't think I needed to.

The tumors are generally large and unfortunately most are malignant. These types of tumors are very fragile. Removing them before they rupture is the best remedy, but they come up so quickly and attack the internal organs where they're unseen, so they're generally only diagnosed once a dog starts bleeding. They are very common in German shepherds.

I hear you on the vet bills, and you can only do what you can do. A teaching hospital might be worth investigating. It might be worth it to them to work something out with you, especially for something like the Navy Protocol, if it has educational value for them. 

Arycrest, I am so sorry to read of your loss of 2 dogs in so little time. Oh how awful. I cannot imagine how painful!


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## Martie

I'm SO sorry to hear you are going through this. I am not an expert by any means, but we lost our 7-year-old GSD to Hemangiosarcoma last year. He was fine until the morning he seemed off and by the end of the day could not make it to the barn with me to feed the horses. To make a long story short - we took him to an e-vet, who said he had massive internal bleeding. Rather than do the surgery, we elected an ultrasound first. That showed a spleen that looked like it was covered in freckles. Lots of small tumors all over it and suspicious (though unidentifiable) liver lesions. His heart was fine and clear. I was there and saw it and the US doc said that while he could not do a definitive diagnosis without biopsy, it was classic metastasized (through the spleen and possibly liver) hemangiosarcoma that he had seen many times before. I don't know if hemangiosarcoma sometimes presents with large tumors, but do know that in our case, it was many, many small ones.

We were presented with options to remove his spleen - but have to put him down on the table if it was indeed in his liver - and then to do chemotherapy. In any case, the prognosis was just a few months. We elected to not do any of these and to let him live whatever life he had left. We put him down at the next major bleed, which came a few weeks later. He had a lot of good time during those weeks, with minor bleeds occasionally. Our vet assured us there was little to no pain - just weakness from bleeding out.

I would be guardedly encouraged by the size of the tumor - but again - sure am not an expert - just sharing our own recent experience, which is much different.

I hope the results come back very soon - the waiting is the worst! Please keep us posted and let us know how things are going. In the meantime, hopefully he will be home soon and you will be able to spend some good quality time with him. 

We're with you!


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## rockhead

It looks like Eich will be home by tomorrow night. I haven't spoken to the doctor since this morning, but the techs tell me that he had made steady improvement since the surgery and would probably be OK with oral pain management and close supervision. I might also have word on the lab results by Monday. 

I need to get my head together and wait until I know for sure. I can't panic and start calling veterinary colleges without facts. I want everything for him, but I need to consider what he wants. I am _certain_ all he wants is to hit the pool a few more times before the fall sets in and to finally get that **** chipmunk that runs up the cherry tree every time. 

I should be hearing from the techs again very soon... they usually run an EKG around 8:00 PM, then call.


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## Martie

Good for you! This is a very scary time which can lead one to all kinds of knee-jerk reactions. The ER vets wanted us to leave our Klaus with them overnight and sign off for emergency surgery if they felt it required. We knew Klaus needed to come home - I don't know how we knew that - but it was the right thing to do for him and for us. They made us sign a release to take him home. After settling down, a visit with our trusted regular vet, and some time to think, we knew what we needed to do. Keep that great hold of yourself and your relationship with your dog - take the time you need - consider the options presented and make a decision that is right for both of you. You will not regret it. Your heart will show the way.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you!


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## rockhead

> Originally Posted By: MartieGood for you! This is a very scary time which can lead one to all kinds of knee-jerk reactions.


Isn't that the truth??  I would do anything to have been able to prevent this, and it's so easy to blame yourself, but it's not preventable and that cannot be the case. I was truly terrified yesterday at the thought of losing this animal, but seeing him this morning really helped; he seemed fine. Woozy, but fine. The truth is they really have little to no idea what's going on. A human has all kinds of cognative thoughts with regard to dying and death. An animal simply doesn't work at that level. We try our damndest to equate them with ourselves, but the bottom line is they are instintive. 

If this blasted thing turns out to be HSA I will do everything I can to make his last days his best. When the time comes I will do what I have to do. That is all I can hope for for my own self.

I just spoke with the tech again and it looks like the arrhythmia might be calming down; he said there was much less showing on the 8:00 EKG. I might actually get him back tomorrow!



> Quote:Our thoughts and prayers are with you!


Thank you, everyone. This forum has truly been a Godsend. I'll keep you all posted. Good night.


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## rockhead

Eich is home.







The vet called at 8:00 this morning and I had him in the car by 11:00. We came home and Eich immediately demanded to walk around the property perimeter. He made all his usual stops, marked a few for good measure, and went inside for a quick snack. Afterwards, I spread a blanket under 'his' maple tree and we just plain hung out for over an hour. 

It's about 83 degrees here in southern NY state right now with a warm breeze being driven by the hurricane thats just about at the Carolinas as I write this. As I lay on the blanket with him with the sun poking through the maple, I realized that this day was a gift to both of us. I leaned over and thanked Eich a dozen times. We came inside about an hour ago and I fed him some grilled chicken. He drank a big bowl of water and has been sleeping since. It's nice and cool here in the basement with the TV on low. This would feel normal if I could stop crying.

I am praying that the biopsy is negative.


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## BowWowMeow

I am thinking of you. I had something like this happen with my first dog, Massie. She had an infected area in her jaw and I took her in to the vet. The vet took a sample to send out to be biopsied but told me that this sort of thing was almost always malignant and that she probably had cancer and would die soon (this vet had the bedside manner of an angry hornet). I spent 10 days trying to deal with the reality that my soul mate was dying. Then I got a call from the vet saying it was just an infection. I hope your news will be just as positive. 

I lost Basu to hemangiosarcoma. He had a tumour on his spleen that was only discovered after he had bled out and was near death. The vet advised me to pts . 

I am glad you caught it when you did and were able to have a successful surgery and have this very special extra time with Eich. Please give him a big hug for me!


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## Mary Jane

> Originally Posted By: rockhead
> I am praying that the biopsy is negative.


me, too.


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## rockhead

Day 4

(My God, this is _only day 4??_)

He had a good last 24-hours. 

He slept in my bed for a couple hours, then jumped out at some point and went to his bed in the living room. He slept through the night after that; I actually slept, too, for the first night in 4.

We went outside without a leash and he walked next to me as we did our usual morning routine at 1/3 speed. No charging into the woods after turkeys, no run through the brush after chipmunks. He seemed to know that he needed to take it easy, although he broke into a trot a couple of times. 

Breakfast consisted of cooked oatmeal with grilled chicken, spiked with his meds, Rimadyl and Tramadol, an antibiotic and a pretty strong painkiller, I forget which is which. He gets a little foggy for a couple hours after meds, but seems to be very comfortable and mobile. He's got 31 staples in his abdomen and the incision is clean and dry. He wants to do stairs and jump on the bed, but I lift him anyway. He's eating great and pestering me to play in the house. In short, everything seems normal.









I've got constant coverage in place until at least next weekend, and I'll know what the news is before then. Keep those thoughts coming... I'm beginning to feel optimistic. =)


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## rockhead

I found this video on my camera... it was taken about two weeks before this all started as I was experimenting with the video function. At this point I had no idea anything was wrong.






Here's a shot from this morning... 31 staples and a nice opiate buzz!










I just shot some video of our morning walk and will put it up as soon as YouTube gives me a link....


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## rockhead

Sorry about the HTML code above... I seem to be having trouble getting the player to embed... here's a direct link to the video: CLICK HERE


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I just read this-not knowing anything much about the topic-but very much hoping that he is going to be fine and that he lives a very long life. He sounds like he's doing great and is a young dog with a lot to live for. 

Looks like you might be closest to Tuft's unless there's something closer in Canada, in terms of vet schools. Just in case. But my dog had a tumor removed in January that was okay, so let's hope that Eich is lucky too. 

Rimadyl is an NSAID and Tramadol is a pain killer http://www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.html has a good listing of different meds and what they do. Is he on an abx? 

He is very handsome!


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## rockhead

Post-op video is up, click HERE


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## Skye'sMom

Just another unknown friend stopping by to let you know I am thinking of you both. I know it has been a grueling 4 days - times gets warped when you have such difficult things going on.

Sounds like a great time lying under the tree with your dog - a spcial time no matter what is going on.

Best of luck.


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## JenM66

Hope Eich is enjoying his time home and is feeling stronger. I can't tell you anything about hemagio, except the idea of it scares me to he7L. Good luck - let us know when you get the results. He's a handsome fella!


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## Karin

Glad to hear he's home and doing better. Keep us posted!


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## JasperLoki

I don't have any knowledge on the subject, however NC State University in North Carolina has a very good Vet clinic from what I hear.

I am sure you have researched the heck out of this, however here is some more info.

http://www.petplace.com/search.aspx?c=0&q=Hemangiosarcoma&x=38&y=13

Also, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your boy
















He is so handsome


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## rockhead

9/8/08 - DAY 6

I owe you guys an update. 

The last 48-hours have been pretty **** good, actually. Eich is clueless and seems to have gotten used to the meds. He no longer passes out for two hours after being given the morning painkiller. I've been letting him do some stairs and he has no problem at all. 

We spent most of the day yesterday at the pool. Of course, the first thing he wanted was to go in. He got to the second step, stopped abruptly, turned around and got out. He never did that before and I thought he felt some pain on the steep pool steps, but my wife pointed out the obvious; the water felt weird on his shaved belly!







After another attempt he got right in and did a short lap before I lifted him out. I shot more video and pictures, or course.

We had dinner plans for over a week, but told our hosts we might not be making it. We both agreed, however, that since Eich was obviously doing very well we ought to go out for a couple hours. We got dressed and went out right after feeding him and giving him the PM meds. Let me tell you; that was the most stressfull dinner I ever had. All I wanted was to rush through everything and get back home (which we did) so that I could hang with him some more. Of course, he was fine when we got back. 

I expect to know the test results any day/hour/minute, and it's making me crazy.


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## rockhead

Just another quick note to thanks everyone for the links and suggestions. 

I've become something of an HSA specialist in the last 5 days and I feel we have good chance here. HSA typically appears as many small tumors on the affected organ; one report says it has the appearance of "bubble wrap". The small tumors begin to rupture, one at a time, causing bleeding. The bleeding often stops after a couple hours, but restarts with the next rupture. This can continue for weeks/months until metastisis occurs and too many bleed at once.

Eich had one, giant tumor.

This does not contraindicate HSA, but it's certainly a good sign.

I will absolutely post the results when I know them.


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## marksmom3

Hoping you and Eich get good news today.


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## rockhead

> Originally Posted By: jmarksHoping you and Eich get good news today.


I called about two hours ago and they called back about 30 minutes ago... no word. The tech told me not to expect to hear anything until the end of the week!









She also asked if I was keeping Eich contained to a small area and inactive. Yeah. Right. I was outside with him when they called and told her I was doing my best. She then said that I _really_ needed to keep him quiet for his recovery, etc. I said, "Listen, you don't know the dog, and there's no way I'm keeping him tied down if he's only got a month to live, OK??"

I think she got it.

At any rate, I made an appointment for next Monday to have the staples removed. If I don't lose my mind before then.


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## rockhead

Still no word. 

Eich is doing well and seems to have finally grasped the whole 'recovering from surgery' thing. I swear he understands that he cannot run up/down the stairs, and he even watched a squirrel (on the neighbor's lawn) without freaking out. 

I found a couple of articles on large splenic masses that gave me some hope; I'll post as soon as I hear.


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## Strana1

Your crisis has hit home with me and I am praying that you have the same luck that I did. My Titan had the same thing, a large splenic mass that ruptured, it was almost 5 lbs and he was given a 20% chance of survival of longer than 90 days, but even with those odds I had to give him a chance. I waited on pins and needles until the biopsy came back. It was benign althought the report said that diagnosis was still guarded because of the size of the mass. Titan also had arrythmia after the surgery and was given a heart ultrasound to check it out. Eventually they went away. I had lung x-rays and an abdomen ultrasound done 6 months later and he was given a clean bil of health. Unfortunately I lost him this January to Degenerative Myopathy but I am forever grateful for the extra 18 months I had with him. 

I am on pins and needles with you, I know the stress of waiting for that phone call, in the mean time give Eich lots of love & hugs and enjoy every moment.


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## rockhead

Thank you all a thousand times over for your blind compassion and thoughts over this last week; it has been torturous for me to wait this long for the news, and your words and prayers have helped me through.

The verdict is in. Eich has HSA. 

I am really at a loss right now. I am taking him in on Monday to have the staples removed. I suppose I'll listen to the options regarding chemo, but we are pretty much set; the very second my precious boy becomes uncomfortable I am going to free him. I simply won't allow this magnificent creature to suffer. In the meantime, every additional day is a gift. With any luck at all I might have him into the new year, though I wouldn't mind him making his 8th birthday... March 4, 2009.

I'll be checking back under a different thread in order to keep everyone updated; I owe you all that and more. In the meantime, please give your babies an extra hug for me today. 

Cary


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Oh wow, I am so sorry. 

I truly thought he would be okay. 

I do want to tell you from watching dogs like Sydney (not with HSA) on IMOM http://www.imom.org/pin/sponsor/sydney-kanengeiser.htm they do not respond to chemo like we do (they seem to do better in terms of reacting to it). I thought when the cancer cases would come on IMOM that it was kind of a mean thing to do but saw that it sometimes it just improved quality of life, but maybe not quantity. I do not know first hand, and I know you have done more research on this subject, but did want to say that-in the hopes that someone with more information could chime in. 

You have a great attitude and he is a very lucky boy-even though it doesn't seem like it today.


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## BowWowMeow

I am very sorry. The sister of one of my neighbor's had a golden who was opened up for surgery and they found he was full of cancer and it was wrapped around some of his major organs. They were unable to do the surgery. That was in April and he is still alive today! He has good days and bad days but he still enjoys food and outings. So hopefully Eich will do as well as Casey has done. 

If you would like to try something to help fight the cancer, I have heard really good things about this product:
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Genesis-Resources-Canine-CAS-Options/152003.aspx

And I found these websites:

http://www.herbal-dogkeeping.com/dog_cancer_hemangiosarcoma.html
http://www.petdogtrainer.com/magic.htm


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## RebelGSD

Oh man, I am so sorry. I lost a dog to hemangiosarcoma, she was gone in three days after I noticed the problem. She lost too much blood to survive the surgery. We tried blood transfusions, but they did not help. She also had changes on the liver according to the ultrasound.

I was so hoping that your boy had a benign growth. Do the best you can: it sounds like he is feeling well right now, cherish every moment and have a lot of fun with Eich. They say HAS is not painful?


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## rockhead

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDThey say HAS is not painful?


So I'm told. I imagine it ends much the same way it began; a bleed that cannot be stopped. I had him in surgery within 5 hours of noticing a problem, so I guess we detected it early on. No matter, though... once the cancer cells hemmorhage there is nothing that can be done. 

_BELIEVE_ me when I tell you; this dog will feel no pain.


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## jsmurray31

I'm so sorry you are going thru this.......it is amazing to me how many times a hear this type of story. I lost my lab Tucson in June of 2006. No signs or symptoms, until his tumor ruptured - went to the emergency vet who said we needed an US to see if it had metastasized. After an incorrect read of the US we opted for a spleenectomy. He died as they were administering the anesthesia......come to find out his liver was covered in tumors. 

As usual, it was on Tucsons terms......my tough, never show weakness boy!!

I guess my point of this is take it day by day, hour by hour, enjoy him as long as you can (as I am sure you are). I don't see it in your posts, but please don't second guess anything you have done or possible signs - they probably weren't there. It always amazes me how resilient they are.

My prayers are with you and your family.


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## Karin

I'm so sorry to hear this news, Cary. I really thought that Eich was going to be OK. The good thing is that he made it through the surgery and you can still spend time with him. He's lucky to have such a loving owner to go through this with him. When our previous dog was diagnosed with leukemia and wasn't given long to live, we vowed to make her last days as nice as we possibly could, and we'll always treasure that time we had with her.


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## Strana1

I echo the feelings of the other posts, cherish every minute with your beautiful Eich.


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## Barb E

Ahhh ****, I'm sorry


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## marksmom3

So sorry to hear this. I'll be keeping Eich and you & your family in my thoughts and prayers. Give him a big hug from us.


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## jecg

I’m so very sorry. Like others, I was hoping that the tumor was benign. My eight year old Quid was diagnosed with HSA last week. Thankfully, I had a few days to say good-by and to thank him for a wonderful eight years. I had him put to sleep this past Friday.

Know that you both are in my thoughts.

Jennifer


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## rockhead

> Originally Posted By: jecgMy eight year old Quid was diagnosed with HSA last week. Thankfully, I had a few days to say good-by and to thank him for a wonderful eight years. I had him put to sleep this past Friday.


Oh, no! That's terrible! My heart skipped a beat when I read that... why only a week?? Did Quid have any surgery? My vet told me I could expect a couple of months... Eich seems to be doing great at this point, and yesterday was a full week.

I'm very sorry.


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## jecg

Oh no, I’m sorry. My post was intended to try and convey that I understood what you were going through with Elic, not scare you to death. I’m really, really sorry. I also didn’t want to hijack your thread!

Quid was a dog with numerous health problems, bad joints, a problematic stomach/GI tract, allergies, etc. In the back of my mind, I had been worried about him for the past year. 

He was lethargic the beginning of August. I took him to the vet for a full check up with blood work. The tests were normal and we adjusted his pain meds. He was fine for a couple of weeks, and then became lethargic again. This time I thought it was his stomach. I took him in for X rays and blood work, and again, everything was normal. Labor Day weekend he stopped eating for 24 hours and seemed exhausted. Monday, Tuesday he was eating small amounts of chicken, but by Wednesday his breathing had become erratic, (sometimes heavy breathing, other times he hardly seemed to be breathing at all)…and his balance was off. He had more blood work done and this time it showed that he was bleeding internally. Thursday, I took him to a vet who specializes in MRIs. They found a large tumor on his spleen and clusters of small ones. I think they also said that he had streaks on his liver. (I was running on automatic at that point) They warned me that he could go into shock at any time.

I chose not to operate because I knew in my heart that Quid was exhausted. Exhausted from all his different health problems. 

I hope that the doctors are wrong and that Elic lives a long and happy/healthy life. Take care.

Jennifer


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## rockhead

Jennifer, no need to apologize... I just didn't know the history you had with Quid... I was under the impression that he was totally healthy and non-symptomatic until last week (like Eich). Reading your story it is now clear to me that Quid was well in to stage 3 when HSA was diagnosed. You certainly did the right thing on his end; I would not have opened Eich up with a loaded liver... it's simply not fair.

In hindsight I am now questioning my decision; it seems that I saved him last week only to watch him die in a couple of months. On the other hand, friends who have had dogs die sudden deaths are telling me they would had preferred some time for closure. 

I guess there really is no right way to go through this.


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## jeffreyzan

I am so sorry to hear about this. WE lost Storm (12yrs) in June 2006. WE noticed her getting sick/lethargic/loss of bladder control, about 1 month prior, and went to a vet other than our usual. The vet there charged about 600 dollars for xrays/testings/meds, and told us she was iron deficient and to feed her liver. 

She then had a tumor pop through the skin. We were able to stop the bleeding, and took her to her our regular vet. He was very up front with us and with out testing told us she had HSA. He said the prognosis was good and advised against treatment to save money. 

3 days later Storm passed. 


Comfort your dog, and enjoy your time with him, and do not put yourself and him through the pain. 

You are in our prayers


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## mmmontgomery

Rockhead, I'm so sorry to hear it's HSA. Having gone through it, I agree that I don't believe HSA is painful. I think any discomfort comes from the weakness and bloating that accompanies the internal bleeding. 

Some people have had some luck with giving their dogs essiac and turmeric. And take him off all carbohydrates. Cancer feeds on carbs.

In your conversations about chemo, I again urge you to investigate the Navy protocol. It is a relatively simple, non-toxic combination of medications like tamoxifen, celebrex, and doxycycline with very low side effects. It's based on the very latest theories about cancer treatment, anti-angiogenesis, stopping the blood flow to cancer cells. I know it's been used in osteosarcoma; maybe they've advanced to HSA. I will be surprised if your regular vet has heard of it. But Tufts, a couple of hours away from you, has.

And please think about sharing Eich's DNA with researchers to help them find a way to detect and cure this wicked disease.

I hope I don't sound like a broken record. Hindsight is 20/20, and suddenly losing my dog to HSA was one of the worst experiences of my life.

My heart goes out to you. I've been there. We love them so much.


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## Mary Jane

> Originally Posted By: rockhead
> 
> I guess there really is no right way to go through this.


I would like to disagree with you there. From all you have posted, I believe that you are doing the right thing for Eich. 

both of you take care,
MJ


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## djpohn

Sorry to hear about your dogs diagnosis. I lost my male Onyx to this 5 years ago 9/29. He was fine when I left for work and was going into shock when I came home. We rushed him to the hopital where he was diagnosed with a bleed from a tumor in his spleen. Other tumors were visable on ultrasound in his liver as well. His prognosis was poor for surgery only giving him 1 -3 months IF he survived surgery and staying at the hospital for up to 5 days post op. I knew he would of freaked out having to stay there so I elected to have him PTS. To this day it still pains me the way he had to die, but at least I was with him in the end. It came out of the blue as in June we had done compete x-rays and an abdomenal scan which showed all organs were normal, no signs to tumors. 

This is a horrible, fast moving cancer. If you have caught it early and there is a chance to put him into remission with chemo, I would highly suggest your look into this and start while he is still healthy and feeling good. Chemo in dogs is not anywhere as "bad" as it is for people. They give much lower doses so you don't have as many side effects as people do.

My Rainer is in remission from Lymphoma. He underwent chemo treatments last year over 6 months and only had 2 days total where he didn't feel well. He is currently 16 month post diagnosis (knocking wood) and doing great.

My parents had a corgi with bladder cancer who lived for over a year post diagnosis on a "chemo" protocol my parents gave him daily at home. He was 12 years when he was diagnosed and almost made it to his 14th birthday.

Your dog is doing great now so you made the right decision for him by removing the spleen. Cherish every day you have together, whatever you choose to do. 

Best of luck to you.


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## rockhead

Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions, thoughts, and compassion. This forum has been a tremendous help in a tough time.

Eich is going in on Monday (9/15) to have the staples removed. I will probably speak to the resident Oncologist at that time to discuss treatment options. 

I have researched HSA extensively over the last ten days and I think I might know more about it than some vets. It is, essentially, cancer of the blood vessels. When it results in a splenic hemmorhage (as was the case with Eich), and with no treatment at all, death usually occurs within days, sometimes hours. Surgical removal of the spleen results in a dramatic reversal of symptons within days, but metastasis results in death in an average of 3-4 months with extremes ranging from weeks to just over a year. Chemo will usually extend survival time by several months, but there is no chance of remission; it's an unusually aggressive cancer and every part of the body is susceptible. 

A problem with chemo (at least for me) is the good chance of illness and discomfort (nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, etc.). I know that dogs usually tolerate chemo much better than humans, however a recent study of HSA canines given chemo indicated that 13 of 16 displayed some form of side effect. 

"Adriamycin, vincristine and cyclophosphamide have been shown to increase average survival time following splenectomy from an average of 65 to180-271 days. These drugs are well tolerated, with the majority of dogs experiencing above average quality of life. Despite the improvement in survival times, few dogs survive past 1 year with *<u>all</u>* eventually succumbing to metastatic disease." (my underline highlight)(http://www.televets.com/articles/hemangiosarcoma-in-dogs.html)

While humans would certainly knowingly endure such issues and odds for a chance of extending theirs lives, I am certain Eich would only know that he feels like crap; and that is what I am trying to _avoid_ at all costs.

Believe me, I would do anything I could if I knew it would keep him alive, pain-free, for another 7.5 years. At this point, I am the only one in pain; Eich is amazing and driving me crazy in the house since he hasn't gotten his usual daily hour of exercise since this began. He is totally unaware, unconcerned, and happy. THAT is how I want him to be. I don't think I even want to chance 3 or 4 weeks of his discomfort if it only means a couple of months. 

This isn't a monetary issue, either. Again, I would do ANYTHING if I knew it would save him.

I'll report in after Monday if I learn anything. We also have some fun planned for later in the month. 

Cary


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## djpohn

Cary,

Rainer had the Madison Wisconsin (MW) protocol which uses the following drugs:
vincristine, doxorubicin, cyclophosphamine, 1-asparaginase 

He only had 2 days where he wouldn't eat and felt "pukey" in a 25+ week treatment. It was my fault for not making sure he drank enough and he got dehydrated. I took him in and they gave him fluids and he was fine the next day.

Many people pretreat with medications to prevent diarrhea and nausea. Rainer didn't need these although I had them on hand. 

Before he got sick I had very negative thoughts about treating a dog with chemo, but Rainer was not even 4 years old when he was diagnosed and you wouldn't have even known he was sick. For me there was no choice, I wasn't prepared to sit and watch him die. Our oncologist is one of the best in the world and at the hospital they stress the quality of life for the dogs. I have met many people over the past year plus with dogs getting treated for various cancers and the majority of people have had the same experience with chemo or radiation.

The chemo usually will make the quality of the time you have left better. I am not trying to talk you into anything, just sharing my experience with chemo.

I hope you dog beats the odds, you are already off to a good start.


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## djpohn

Cary,

I wanted to add you might want to give your dog DHA it has been found in the studies that CSU did where they used this in studies with chemo. My oncolgist recommends the alge based form as you don't have to worry about possible metal poisoning. I buy Expecta it is the Enfamil brand for pregnant/nursing mothers and it's easy to find.

Here is a link to the nutrition section on the hospital's website . As has been mentioned before, diet is a huge way of "controlling" the growth of cancer. High protien, low carbs is recommended.

Good luck!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

GS Mom-thanks for that DHA information. I am very interested in that for my seniors-I will pm to ask if you think it's okay for them (and will check with their vet). 

I think from watching the cancer cases on IMOM-and now they have the Help Your Dog Fight Cancer author's Magic Bullet Fund, that when people choose treatment for their dogs, they do it knowing it may not save the dog in the traditional sense, but that it may extend what time they have and make the quality better, and then hope that they get better than average. Continued good wishes!


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## RebelGSD

There was someone who posted, not too long ago, that his dog survived a cancer that is supposed to kill within a year or less. The dog had surgery and chemo, and made full recovery of a cancer that was a 100% killer, died many years later of unrelated illness. Does anyone remember this post? I think it was HSA but I am not sure. It may have been a comment in the "loving memory" or "preparing to say good-bye" sections. I remember this post because the recovery was against all odds. I cannot remember who posted it.


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## rockhead

First off, here's a video taken just yesterday (Monday, 9/15) about an hour after his staples were removed: CLICK HERE 

Now, tell me; does _THAT_ look like a sick dog to you??









I've spoken to a board-certified oncologist, my regular vet, and a third who combines holistics with chemo; there really isn't anything that can be done to extend his prognosis by (what I consider to be) a reasonable degree to justify the risks. 

For now, Eich is eager to play and seems fine. I'll keep a close eye on him and hope for the best.









Cary


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## Karin

What a cute and good boy he is! And so smart and obedient too! That video is great. He looks very happy. I hope he continues to be well for as long a time as possible.


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## jsmurray31

He is very handsome and looks so good!


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## rockhead

Just a follow-up with a link to the new thread which will document his progress (decline?) from here: CLICK HERE


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