# Judge Judy pit bull case today



## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Judge judy ruled in favor of the defendant today in a case where Lab on a retractable leash was attacked while walking by a lady with 2 leashed Pit Bulls . 
Judge J said she couldn't fault the lady with the Pit Bulls because she initially had the pits on a leash under her control vs Lab lady was on a retract leash (I hate those leashes) and that the extra 2 ft of leash didn't imply control over her Lab dog.

My question is : To me if a person could not pull her on dogs off or away from another dog do they really have real control over the dogs?

Agree or disagree? Tell me your reasoning ?

(This is for interest and discussion only)


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

[EDIT] Removed. I totally misread your post...


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Nothing wrong with retractable leashes - the issue as always is irresponsible owners. It is irresponsible to allow your dog to go up to random dogs, leashed or not. I didn't see the show but would say it sounds like the Lab owner wasn't controlling the dog, which is what led to the fight. I absolutely don't see how the APBT owner would be at fault for the Lab owner's failure to control her dog.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

Having had first hand experience with keeping bullies.... I would say the pit's were not being closely enough controlled. I have not seen the episode being refrenced, but I think it would be a tough call. The rectracable leash isn't not a very solid way of controlling a dog either, but then again, a lab is less likely to be agressive unprovoked than a pitbull. Two pit's on cable tieouts won't even contain those dogs.

Pitbulls have a shorter temper and are more likely to do some damage. I can easly visualize a woman (even a heavy woman) being taken out for a brisk drag by a couple pits. (imagine a woman flapping in the breeze behind a couple of dogs on a dead run) Should have never happened. 

Walking any number of multiple dogs on leash isn't very wize if you can't restrain them. I take my two pyrs out, but I am fully aware that the two of them could take me out for a brisk drag since the combined pulling power of the two of them is close to 500 lbs.


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## King&Skylar (Jun 3, 2010)

if you are with your dogs, and can't get them away from another dog, you do not have control over the dog- no matter what kind of a leash they are on.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

She made the right call. Owners should not be held liable if someone decides to let their dog approach your dog without permission. 

There's nothing wrong with retractable leashes. I use a 26 foot one. When there's nobody around, my dog can move about freely. If I see someone walking by themselves or with a dog, I can either physically reel in my dog, or just call him to me and then lock the retractable leash so he only has a foot of leash left. I've seen people walking their dogs irresponsibly even with 6 foot leashes.

Where I live, letting a retractable leash extend beyond 6 feet is illegal. If your dog is not on a leash that is a _maximum_ of 6 feet in length, it's considered off-leash and you'll get a ticket(if the officers cared, that is). But if that case was where I lived, the owner of the lab would have easily been at fault and also be slapped with a fine for having a dog off-leash.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

King&Skylar said:


> if you are with your dogs, and can't get them away from another dog, you do not have control over the dog- no matter what kind of a leash they are on.


That's what I should have said. :laugh:


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

@Davey and King, That's my feeling. I was surprised that she didn't have them split the cost as she has in the past. but she clearly explained it was because the Pit owner had them on a leash (under control) 
I will give you an example of why I am curious: I adopted my Great Dane (in 2000) and found out quickly that he had issues. I had him ON A SHORT LEASH and I told the kid to go away but she kept walking toward us fast and Max leaped forward to bite her. I side tackled him because he was already 7ft long and I took him down fast. 
Now since I had him ON A LEASH, and he had actually attacked her, I wouldn't be at fault for not keeping my dog under control? 
I believe if I am out with my dog that I am fully responsible for said dogs actions.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

The woman with two pits had them on leashes and sitting beside her when the 40lb mix breed came up and bit one of them. The mix started something it couldn't finish and its owner was whiny that she got caught with an out of control dog.

Though in the beginning you could tell that the judge really, REALLY wanted to find a reason to award the owner her vet bills in the beginning of the case. 

Judge Judy is very anti-pit bull and anti-Rottweiler.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

I think most people are, its a shame; since many little dogs bite, but few are reported compared to larger breeds ( In my opinion)
I have worked in shelters and have been bite many times by little yappy dogs ! LOL


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

angelas said:


> The woman with two pits had them on leashes and sitting beside her when the 40lb mix breed came up and bit one of them. The mix started something it couldn't finish and its owner was whiny that she got caught with an out of control dog.
> 
> Though in the beginning you could tell that the judge really, REALLY wanted to find a reason to award the owner her vet bills in the beginning of the case.
> 
> Judge Judy is very anti-pit bull and anti-Rottweiler.



Oh oops, it wasn't a lab? I thought it was..glad some one watches JJ too hahah


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I did not see it. 

I have a bunch of dogs. 

I do not take my bunch of dogs out for a walk together. 

I think that you have better control and can avoid these situations if you walk one dog at a time. 

I know there are people out there that can walk a bunch, or a pair ok.

If the miscelaneous dog came up and attacked the pit, then no way should the pit owner be liable. 

But the pit owner COULD have probably avoided any problem if she had just one dog out there at a time. 

It would be difficult for me to pull two of my shepherds off an offending dog. But I could easily maintain a safe distance from an invading dog if I had my attention on just one dog. This is why I do not try to walk multiple bitches. 

I could see how someone would have a hard time pulling off two pitts or two rotties too.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

yeah, the pit bull owner said the other dog bite at her dogs first but the other person denied it...the truth is somewhere in between, I am sure. 

yes, I have a lot of dogs too. I rarely take more than one dog out at a time, and where I live we have had several stressful situations with loose dogs running up on our walks trying to start fights. I have started bringing a walking stick with us ,when we walk the neighborhood.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

selzer said:


> I did not see it.
> 
> I have a bunch of dogs.
> 
> ...


 I take three or four sometimes. And have had that many with me when charged by an off leash dog. I actually had a harder time when charged by an offleash dog with one of my dogs than I have had so far with multiples. I suspect it's because one lone dog isn't as likely to get too close to four strange dogs together but they are willing to take on a single strange dog. But none of the times my dogs and I have been charged by loose dogs were in any way our fault. My dogs were leashed on a public side walk and the other dogs have left their yard, sometimes even crossing streets to get to us. It was the fault of the irresponsible owner who wasn't properly controlling their dog. 

We take the dogs in the summer to a dog friendly hike and bike path. One day we had a couple of dogs and were getting out of the car with them. The dogs were still in the car waiting for their leashes to be attached when I see a Sibe at my side trying to push into the car! Of course my dogs didn't take kindly to that and starting barking at the dog, then that dog starts getting defensive. The dog was at the end of a retractable leash, about to get into a fight with my dogs in the car! Had one of my dogs bitten the dog, it certainly wouldn't have been my fault and I don't think any judge would disagree. Like many posters here though, when I yelled at the woman to get better control of her dog, she replied saying that I shouldn't bring aggressive dogs to the bike path. :help:


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

I hate retractable leashes. I don't think anybody who uses those has "complete" control over their animals.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

I use retractable leashes for my toy and mini poodles. I would not want to use one on a large dog. The small diameter leash would too hard to control if the reel slips.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I hate retractable leashes, as well. But I admit, I totally lack the cordination to; 1) recognize danger 2) retract the leash 3) lock the leash in place 4) control dog or dogs fast enough to avoid the danger. 

I'm more of the old school ways - normal leash or long line. Both I can utilize without too much thought process.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

A warning to those who use retractable leashes:

My stepfather is a lawyer and he has had four clients that have had their retractable leashes SNAP and hit them in the eye, causing *blindness* in the eye.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

selzer said:


> It would be difficult for me to pull two of my shepherds off an offending dog. But I could easily maintain a safe distance from an invading dog if I had my attention on just one dog. This is why I do not try to walk multiple bitches.


How do you propose to maintain a safe distance when the other dog is on a long retractable leash with no control, or is off leash? Should you just never walk your dog if there is a chance they may be aggressive to out-of-control dogs?

It can be very difficult to avoid a situation when an off leash dog (or a dog on a long retractable leash) wants to come up to your on leash dog even if you are only walking one dog.

Personally I think even if the dog on the leash started the fight, the person with their dogs off leash is at fault for letting them go up to an unknown dog. Not every dog wants strange dogs running up to them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Chicagocanine said:


> How do you propose to maintain a safe distance when the other dog is on a long retractable leash with no control, or is off leash? Should you just never walk your dog if there is a chance they may be aggressive to out-of-control dogs?
> 
> It can be very difficult to avoid a situation when an off leash dog (or a dog on a long retractable leash) wants to come up to your on leash dog even if you are only walking one dog.
> 
> Personally I think even if the dog on the leash started the fight, the person with their dogs off leash is at fault for letting them go up to an unknown dog. Not every dog wants strange dogs running up to them.


You can battle about money and blame and negligence until the cows come home. At the end of the day, I would feel awful if my dogs were in a bloody fight while I was unable stop it because I had too many of them on my hands. I walk one dog at a time, and was accosted once by a loose pit bull and a few times by dogs held by invisible fencing protecting their property, and have never had a dog injured while I was walking it. 

If a "friendly" but uncontrolled lab or golden bounds up to your two shepherds while its clueless owner is hanging on to a retractable lead -- and shouts over -- "She is friendly" and your dog reactive dogs attack and cause serious injury, I would be seriously surprised if the courts found in your favor. I think they should find in your favor, as it would not have happened if the friendly dog did not come right on up and in, BUT I would not count on it. AND, it also would not have happened, if with only one dog, you could hold it back, kick the dog away, get out of range. 

If you are walking dogs that are well socialized with people and dogs, and have no dog-aggressive issues or leanings, than walking more than one might be ok. But who takes two dogs with probable dog aggression, that they cannot control if there is an issue, out together. That is crazy. 

Most accidents happen because of a series of events. The cart was in the aisle AND the guy was not watching; the kid did not look both ways, AND the driver was talking on the cell phone. If one of these things were not the accident would most likely have been avoideed. The woman had an uncontrolled dog on a flexilead AND another person had two dogs that she did not have good understanding/control of. 

I KNOW that dog aggression does not equal human aggression, but bicycles might be considered attractive nuisances to dogs. What if a child on a bicycle when by the lady with the two pit bulls? What if they saw those as something they needed to chase and take down. If she could not pull them away from a dog, could she pull them away from a cyclist? 

If you cannot control the two dogs in ANY situation, than take ONE out at a time. Reduces the risk of accidents happening, even if a simple dog runs up and says "hi."


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

(selzer what does RN and RA stand for beside your dogs names? I am slowly becoming familiar with abbreviations, but I don't know these two yet!)

Today Rocky and I were on a walk in the woods (there is a trail) and a man had two labs that were off leash playing in the water. When they saw Rocky, they both ran out of the water and came at him from either side, barking and jumping everywhere. He backed away until they backed him into a bench (with me trying to shooh them away while yelling at their owner) and then bared his teeth at them. The owner told me I shouldn't bring an aggressive dog on a running trail.

I was so upset, because it was not Rocky's fault at all! THe dogs were jumping on him and me, and backed us into a corner. He did nothing but warn them off.

He has never snapped or nipped anyone/thing, but if he had bitten one of the dogs, we probably would have had a hard case, since he is a GSD and they are labs.

We walked by atleast 20 dogs (on leash) during our hour and a half walk, and he did nothing but wag his tail and keep walking. (and he glanced over his shoulder a few times to get another glimpse, but hey, we're training!!


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> (selzer what does RN and RA stand for beside your dogs names? I am slowly becoming familiar with abbreviations, but I don't know these two yet!)


I'm not Selzer, but its Rally Novice and Rally Advanced obedience titles.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

yes, thanks Lin. 

No, that would not have been Rocky's fault at all. Unless that was an off-lead park crap like that should not happen. People who own dog breeds that are generally friendly with people and dogs, like labs OUGHT to be, do not understand dogs that are not like theirs. They think those dogs have a problem. 

We really have to be hyper-vigilant to protect our dogs from breed bans and limits, not only outright banning, but not allowing them in housing and motels and the works. Any incident that involves our breed hurts us. Because you are right. If the big bad GSD connects with one of those dogs, it is not necessarily going to be pretty. If a cocker spaniel or Scotty connects with one of them, the lab owner would probably walk away shame-faced. 

Life is so unfair, but as long as we know it is so, we can do something to protect our dogs. Saying it shouldn't be so, and failing to protect our dogs because it shouldn't be that way, means that we or they will suffer.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

haha (I had to read this thread all over again because I don't even remember writing it. Must have been one of those stressful school weeks.)

I always walk my dogs individually though. It gives me the personal attention to each dog, the control and extra workouts!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

selzer said:


> If you cannot control the two dogs in ANY situation, than take ONE out at a time. Reduces the risk of accidents happening, even if a simple dog runs up and says "hi."


I was talking about walking one dog, not two. 
I only have one dog, she is leash reactive but thankfully is generally ok if the other dog is off leash (she reacts towards other leashed dogs, but not off-leash dogs.)

It can be very difficult even with one dog. If the other dog is off leash and not under the owner's control, you have no easy way to to get the off-leash dog to NOT come up to your dog, and it can also be very difficult to try to separate them if they do start fighting, if only one dog is leashed. I don't know about you but I'm not going to stick my hand between them to try to grab a strange dog's collar because they have no leash, and if the owner is not right nearby (which, in every case where an off-leash dog has run up to mine the owner was 20+ feet away) they aren't going to be able to help you separate them very quickly.


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## timmster (Jan 26, 2011)

I don't see why retractable leashes are so bad. At least for my chihuahua. It may (and probably is) a completely different matter for much larger dog breeds. When the leash is locked, it becomes just like any other leash, and when you do choose to let your dog free, you just unlock the leash and the leash extends. I don't see why it's so bad. 

I could see how a dog on an extended flexilead could suddenly go after something, and if the owner is not strong enough, may be unable to reel their unruly dog back.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

Syaoransbear said:


> She made the right call. Owners should not be held liable if someone decides to let their dog approach your dog without permission.


And when you ask them to stop and they keep coming


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

timmster said:


> I don't see why retractable leashes are so bad. At least for my chihuahua. It may (and probably is) a completely different matter for much larger dog breeds. When the leash is locked, it becomes just like any other leash, and when you do choose to let your dog free, you just unlock the leash and the leash extends. I don't see why it's so bad.
> 
> I could see how a dog on an extended flexilead could suddenly go after something, and if the owner is not strong enough, may be unable to reel their unruly dog back.


it's often not that they CAN'T reel their dog back in, but that they WON'T. Sometimes it's because they aren't paying attention. They are in their own little world, the dog is 10 (or 26!) feet ahead of them and they have no idea what's going on.
Other times, it's because they don't see a reason too. They just shout "He's friendly" as they mosey along a dozen feet behind their dog. 

I guess people aren't arguing that the leashes themselves are bad, other than they encourage this kind of irresponsible behavior. With an attentive owner and a well-mannered dog, they are no problem at all.

ETA: the main people I see doing this are those with labs/goldens/friendly breeds and those with small breed dogs. The latter seem to believe that because the dog is little, everyone will find him sweet and adorable. And if your big mean GSD doesn't like Fifi jumping on him, then you shouldn't take the big meanie out in public


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