# sport vs home traits



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

I was thinking today that my dogs each have traits that I love in one venue and not so much in the other.

Does your dog have traits that you like in SchH but not to live with or you like to live with but don't like at home? If so, what?

The one that I was thinking of is tracking ability. Grizzly LOVES to track. I took him to my fun pet obedience class this week for socializing and distraction practice, and he wanted to sniff EVERY pee spot and try to determine if that dog was still there. Trait I love in SchH, but not so much in pet obedience. Had to add that into the distraction work.

I love that Bison is a velcro dog. He really wants to be with me all the time and play ball. Nice pet trait, not so nice when teaching the long down.


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Wiva is a total velcro dog. She has to be touching ALL THE TIME. I will cry out of joy when she maintains her long down 

Whisk is a powerful dog that loves physical play. This is great for SchH. He LOVES going after the helper and it's the highlight of the week. Bad when he wants to jump and play with someone in a puffy coat that ISNT a dog person :crazy: And help you if he thinks you are an aggressor, he'll bark like a savage till he is called off


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Honestly, I really love that both my SchH dogs are still fine being in the house with me for a week straight. I've been sick lately and haven't been doing much training and it's not like I have dogs running wild. Even Pan who can be pretty hyper and low threshold is content to lie at my feet all day. Now if I pick up a ball or leash or dumbbell he gets amped up but even considering all the training and work we do, I do not have dogs that HAVE to be worked.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Tracking every single little tiny itty bitty thing on a walk!

DRIVES ME BONKERS when trying to walk them.. both of their noses are right on the ground the whole time - amazing trackers for schH both are, but man, when trying to walk them, it drives me crazy most days.

With Zeffie - her energy (which is getting better every day). She has crazy energy (and drive, but that's not what I am talking about) and is always go-go-go no matter how much mental/physical exercise she receives, she is always ON and at 100000mph, great when working but sucks when you come home from working a 8-12 hour shift and just want to crash.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

A good dog for SchH should be a good dog for the home.  So, no, nothing that I find good for one that isn't good for the other and vice versa.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't see much difference in the dog I train in SchH vs the ones I don't...other than the ones that don't get to go to training know they are missing out! And the SchH dog is very obedient/great recall compared to the others, but that is more genetics not so much training.


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

lhczth said:


> A good dog for SchH should be a good dog for the home.  So, no, nothing that I find good for one that isn't good for the other and vice versa.


I am absolutely not saying that a SchH dog is not a good home dog. My dogs aren't titled yet, but they are wonderful house companions as well as great on the field. I hope no one reads this and thinks that SchH dogs are not great companions.

I am talking specifically about how traits look different in different venues. I also used an example of where some desireable traits at home provide challenges in training.

Our dogs all have strengths and weaknesses. I just thought the contrast would make for an interesting discussion.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I would own the same type of dogs I currently own whether I did SchH or not (actually I pretty much have always owned this type of GSD). So, for me, there really is no contrast. What is good on the field is also good in the home. What is not good on the field is also not good in the home.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

lhczth said:


> I would own the same type of dogs I currently own whether I did SchH or not (actually I pretty much have always owned this type of GSD). So, for me, there really is no contrast. What is good on the field is also good in the home. What is not good on the field is also not good in the home.


I second this. Even if I decided to hang up the schutzhund stuff, I'd still get SchH quality dogs. I don't buy in to the "working dogs don't do well in the home" junk. Maybe if you had such an extreme drive dog *without* any form of off-switch, it would be unpleasant in the home.. but I don't consider that a solid working dog. The sound nerves and stable temperament of a good working dog, I think, makes them so much easier to live with


----------



## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

lhczth said:


> What is good on the field is also good in the home. What is not good on the field is also not good in the home.


 
:thumbup:


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Mmmm... I think I am totally not getting the point across. I will try one more time before giving up. I am not saying at all that it would be a different dog if you did sport or just had a pet. The topic is not about versatility at all, but about specific traits.

Let me explain using people. We all have strengths. In one area they are wonderful and sometimes they are annoying. Someone who is self confident can be seen as arrogant. Someone who is methodical can be seen as rigid. Someone who is flexible can be seen as wishy washy.

I think it is SOMETIMES same way with dogs. The wonderful awesome traits that our dogs have sometimes have a downside. Maybe mentioning the venues into the discussion confused everyone. So I will ask it this way...

Just for the sake of conversation...What are the down sides of the great traits your dog has? 

For example: 

1. Excellent tracker means more work on focus.
2. Defense drive means more socialization and greater vigilance around strangers
3. High bidability means more work on long downs
4. High energy means more exercise for calm house behavior

Why I think this is an interesting discussion is that we don't always recognize that the things that challenge us with our dogs is often the very thing that we love about our dogs. 

It also is interesting to me because there can be training or living with issues that you never think about until you own a dog with that trait. Like #1, I wanted a dog that has a great nose, but it never occured to me that would mean extra work on distractions because they are distracted by scents. The same trait that I LOVE in one area is a challenge in another.

When shopping for a dog, these are things to consider. Are you willing to go through the down side to have the upside? Having lived with #4, that is a trait that I now aviod. I like the upside, but it is not worth the downside.


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> I second this. Even if I decided to hang up the schutzhund stuff, I'd still get SchH quality dogs. I don't buy in to the "working dogs don't do well in the home" junk. Maybe if you had such an extreme drive dog *without* any form of off-switch, it would be unpleasant in the home.. but I don't consider that a solid working dog. The sound nerves and stable temperament of a good working dog, I think, makes them so much easier to live with


 
I completely agree. Totally not the point of the discussion. The whole reason I posted this in the SchH section is because I assume we all agree on this point.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Ruthie said:


> Mmmm... I think I am totally not getting the point across. I will try one more time before giving up. I am not saying at all that it would be a different dog if you did sport or just had a pet. The topic is not about versatility at all, but about specific traits.
> 
> Let me explain using people. We all have strengths. In one area they are wonderful and sometimes they are annoying. Someone who is self confident can be seen as arrogant. Someone who is methodical can be seen as rigid. Someone who is flexible can be seen as wishy washy.
> 
> ...


I don't know that I necessarily agree with the counterpoints you made to specific traits. Why does an excellent tracker need more work on focus? And my female is very high prey with very low threshold... she cannot help but chase anything that moves... but she sleeps most of the time around the house.
the others have similar inconsistencies, but I'm not gonna pick it apart 

High prey drive = scratched up hardwood floors
Strong nose & food drive = lockable trash can and increased countertop vigilance
High defense/protective instinct = belligerent-when-drunk neighbors not aloud to be on premises when drinking
snappy jaws = worried excited snappy jaws occasionally interpreted as aggression by people who don't understand dog behavior


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Ruthie said:


> 1. Excellent tracker means more work on focus.
> 2. Defense drive means more socialization and greater vigilance around strangers
> 3. High bidability means more work on long downs
> 4. High energy means more exercise for calm house behavior


I think all of these are only myths.

As everyone else, I can't think of any SchH trait that could mean more work at home or not desirable in any way nor vice-versa. Same goes for SAR/SchH and SchH/SAR.


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Catu said:


> I think all of these are only myths.
> 
> As everyone else, I can't think of any SchH trait that could mean more work at home or not desirable in any way nor vice-versa. Same goes for SAR/SchH and SchH/SAR.


Those are not theoretical. Those are things that I have experienced. #1 I never had to work on scent distractions with Bison, but I do with Grizz. Bison sucks at tracking Grizz is awesome. #2 Bison has no defense. I never had to spend time training him as a puppy to not snark at people. I do with Grizz.

I think I must have just hit a hot button with what I intended to be a reasonable chat on dog characteristics. I am not sure why everyone is so defensive. I give up.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think I know what OP is trying to say. 

I don't do SchH, but if I could give an example from agility? 

Kopper has a huge amount of what I call "obstacle drive." He loves climbing over, around, under, and through things. He'll go out of his way to climb or jump over something. This is awesome for agility because the obstacles themselves become reinforcements. In daily life, it means sometimes I have a dog that sits up on the back of the couch like a cat, or climbs up the drawers on my dresser like stairs. Doesn't bother me-- I think it's funny-- but it might bother some people.


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Ok not sure but here goes-Ror loves to play -so over time she has trained me and we play at least once a day-when I am sick she does adapt she brings the ball to me and I throw it from the couch-can't really imagine anymore what a day without play would be like-Anja doesn't play but she wants to be with me and she is like my shadow

They both like tracking -Rorie always had food drive but it was not as high as her ball drive I think over time it has gotten higher-and she knows I always have food in my pockets and I am a little absent minded and forget to take it out and I don't always put my clothes down the laundry shoot so as a result I have a lot of pockets with holes in them -one pair of new pants with the pockets chewed out even in the front-I wear them to training-just try to remember not to put food in my pockets then-of course if I did I could always try tracking


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm with Catu, I can't really thing of SchH strengths my dogs have that equate to problems at home. The few problems we have at home are also problems at SchH (namely Pan having a pretty low threshold and getting overstimulated/overloaded easily). Likewise my dogs' strengths in SchH do correspond to "strengths" in their behavior at home. For example I find Nikon to be a higher threshold dog, very clear-headed. At home he is not hyper and is very aloof and neutral with people, I don't have to worry about a friend walking the door and Nikon going for the juggular.

Nikon is a very good tracker (94pts), very consistent in training but I don't have issues with him struggling to focus or trying to track when we're not tracking. Of all my dogs he's the easiest to just pop a collar on (regular collar) and take on a relaxed walk.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Ruthie said:


> Those are not theoretical. Those are things that I have experienced. #1 I never had to work on scent distractions with Bison, but I do with Grizz. Bison sucks at tracking Grizz is awesome. #2 Bison has no defense. I never had to spend time training him as a puppy to not snark at people. I do with Grizz.
> 
> I think I must have just hit a hot button with what I intended to be a reasonable chat on dog characteristics. I am not sure why everyone is so defensive. I give up.


Yes, you may have experienced those problems, and they are real, I don't think that in itself is a myth, but I don't agree with that if you have a great tracker, then the dog has problem in focus. I've never seen the correlation and I doubt it is a rule.

And those problems you experiences with defense drive and need of socialization would have been problems in Schutzhund too later on. With both dogs the helper would had to work harder to bring the correct drive in protection. What people say, me included is that what is good... is good, either in the training field or at home and at least some of us can't think of a situation where it doesn't.

I do think this is a good thread and it has made me think. So far that is my answer, but if in the following day I can think of something I like for SchH but I don't like at home or the other way around, I'll let you know.


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Catu said:


> Yes, you may have experienced those problems, and they are real, I don't think that in itself is a myth, but I don't agree with that if you have a great tracker, then the dog has problem in focus. I've never seen the correlation and I doubt it is a rule.
> 
> And those problems you experiences with defense drive and need of socialization would have been problems in Schutzhund too later on. With both dogs the helper would had to work harder to bring the correct drive in protection. What people say, me included is that what is good... is good, either in the training field or at home and at least some of us can't think of a situation where it doesn't.
> 
> I do think this is a good thread and it has made me think. So far that is my answer, but if in the following day I can think of something I like for SchH but I don't like at home or the other way around, I'll let you know.


Thank you for explaining what you meant. I agree, what I wrote is specific to my dog. I didn't mean to imply that all dogs are this way. I was curious what other people's experiences were. 

I am sorry for getting frustrated. Sometimes it seems to me that everyone insists that their dogs are perfect all the time. I was just looking for something to talk about. There aren't many topics that haven't been posted to death. Chalk it up to a bad idea.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

FWIW, my main problem with a working dog is finding places to work him! No tracking fields around me though I see some great places within 10 miles during my travels, but have no clue as to who owns them. So do I trespass? That would bring the owner out probably!

I don't have a club nearby either...and really am at a crossroads as to where I'll go when the weather breaks. My poor dog, I feel like I'm failing his potential.


----------



## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

My main problem with my puppy is that he's a Momma's boy. This is annoying at home and since I recognized that it would cause problems in SchH, I started rewarding for running away from me from an early age. haha that sounds funny. I mean I started to train the voraus, I started to mark for going to the blind, I started flyball which is basically a send out with a recall over jumps. All things he hesitated with at first but which I think I would've had a big struggle with if I had waited. I still predict that I will have some issues training certain things because he's clingy. Not in a needy way, but in a pushy, demanding, I-will-bite-you-if-you-push-me-away way. LOL 

Otherwise - I think he's a pretty fantastic tracker and his focus is outstanding, I never have to "try" to get his focus. I would say that he does like to climb and jump obstacles but he's always been like that, not because we do other things. The things I like/dislike about him are pretty much the same at home as they are in all the sports we do. If that makes sense.


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I think I understand what the OP is trying to say. For example, a high-energy dog is good for the SchH field, maybe not so good for a housedog (especially after it's been raining for a week straight). High energy with an off switch is good either way. But not all dogs have off switches. 

I do see the point about obstacle drive, too. Fantastic for an agility dog, maybe not so great for the housedog who likes to counter-surf. 

I can see how some detection dogs have over-the-top in energy and drive, making them great working dogs, but might drive a person crazy as a housedog.


----------



## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

A good dog is a good dog on the SchH field as well as at home watching TV or going on a family vacation. Pretty simple.


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Packen said:


> A good dog is a good dog on the SchH field as well as at home watching TV or going on a family vacation. Pretty simple.


:headbang:


----------

