# Question from lurker to potential owner...hopefully!



## eliasmae (Dec 20, 2010)

Hi All!

First off my name is Matthew, and I have been a lurker on this website for quite some time. The amount of information on here is insurmountable. It's exciting for an outsider like me to see the passion and love everyone here has for their dogs. I am from the Cincinnati, OH area and have been looking into the breed for as long as I can remember. I currently don't have any pets right now, and have been fascinated with the GSD breed for as long as I can remember.

I work as an EMT working three 12 hour shifts a week, and have been quite seriously thinking of adding a GSD to my home. I have been looking for some breeders and found some amazing resources on this website of some in the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky area on here. I've called/emailed a lot of them and think I found one that I would like to purchase a puppy from. The breeder is Vom Buflod German Shepherds and they are breeders just north of Cincinnati (Home Page). I have spoken with the breeder (Kathy) a few times and she is extremely helpful. I have been looking for more of a show-line type dog of German background, and this is what most of her dogs are. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this breeder? Or can provide some insight? 

I was thinking about purchasing one of the puppies from the upcoming litters and I looked at the pedigrees for each of the two upcoming ones and I'm a little clueless as to which, if either, would be the better of the two litters. I was unable to find anything on Marko vom Buflod, not sure why and haven't checked into it too much yet. If anyone can take a look who knows more about it than me, that would be fantastic.

I am also open to adoption, but most that I have found either on PetFinder or other sites require a fenced yard (which I do not have) or must be a highly experienced handler (which I also am not!).

Please let me know what you all think! If you have any suggestions for me that would be great as well! Thanks in advance!


----------



## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

First make sure you have a plan for how to handle the pup when you are at work. 12 hours is too long for a young pup to be alone. You'll need to have a dog walker or someone to come by every 3-4 hours or so if you want to keep on track for potty training for a few months until puppy's bladder grows and he can hold it for longer. By 6 months my pups could hold it 8 hours while I was at work. It might take longer to go 12 hours. 

Now looking through this breeder's website...one thing that jumps out at me that I don't like. Only the males are listed. Are there are ALOT of them. Females are every bit as important if not more so to a breeding program as the males. 

Also, I see an extensive list of accomplishments in talking about the dogs...but no titles. Now I'm a giant skeptic. Not saying that this is necessarily true, this breeder could have all the credentials and just for whatever reason has chosen not to list them on her website, but I like to see proof for accomplishments otherwise I think it's safer as a buyer to assume they don't exist. 

For example- Marko. This would be my list of questions to clarify my understanding of what the dog has actually accomplished.



> He is wonderful with family, loves children and other animals, even plays with puppies with the greatest of care. He has passed his AKC good citizens certification, This is the CGC you will read people talking about. While a nice entry level test for the average pet dog, it is very easily obtained by any dog with reasonable temperament and good manners- not exactly a breeding qualification has wonderful movement in the show ring Are they pursuing a conformation rating? I saw he was rated VP as a puppy but saw no further evidence that he has been shown any more as an adult, is on and off leash obedience trained  Any titles? Either AKC OB titles or the German BH? My skeptical self jumps to again that he has nice pet obedience and comes when he is called. Again not something that would impress me in a breeding dog. He also has completed service dog training including items such as opening mail boxes and retrieving mail, picking up coins, credit cards, and keys, and turning on light switches. This is cool if he really does do it.
> He also is trained in Tracking and has completed a 4 mile trailing test. What's the test? And through what organization? He is PERSONAL PROTECTION TRAINED as shown below! I won't lie. This kind of stuff never impresses me. Mostly because I've seen breeders go out to a protection trainer once or twice...get some pictures of their dogs doing bitework and then sell them as excellent protection candidates. In none of the photos can you even actually see him biting. And if he is capable of good offlead obedience, protection work, and tracking why on earth wouldn't you throw a SchH title on the dogs so that he could meet the minimum requirements for breeding by the SV?? He is a very intelligent and level headed young male and shows that a properly socialized and trained GSD from excellent lines can serve many different roles.
> Most importantly he is a trusted and loving family member as all German Shepherds should be.


The other male seems to be relying entirely on pedigree, his good looks, and the accomplishments of his brother in Germany. You can see his brother at the Sieger show in Germany here... 



 Additionally he went Fast normal on his hip certification, which will translate more to our OFA low good to fair. HIs brother went Noch Zuglassen which would be more like borderline. So I would want to look more into the hip health in that breeding.

Looking at their other stud dogs- Doc looks to have been purchased with all of his titles from Germany. Lion was sent to Germany and trained and shown by someone else. I don't see any updates on their websites for most of the current dogs as it pertains to training. And again- I don't see any information about the females.

So for me, just looking at the breeder's website and passing judgement solely on that...Stud dogs all appear to be hip and elbow certified which is good. Pedigrees and type look typical German Showline (I don't know much about particular dogs in those lines) I still know nothing about the females. Based on the number of males I would imagine there are more females...so this is a breeding operation and kennel. Based also on current information and training I would say that they probably don't do much in the way of showing or training at least not in any kind of public venue- but it would have to be further investigated through questioning and personal evaluation. Dogs could be nice in an of themselves. But I think there's a pretty heavy layer of marketing on this for the person who wants a laid back family pet with a certain look. Just my 2cents as I have no personal knowledge of the breeder or the dogs she's produced.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't know the breeder, but a red flag to me is "*Place* *your deposit now to hold your pick in line for puppies" *
Most responsible breeders will match the pup to you, not let you pick. 
I'm sure you've read this sticky:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html
I would take more time and look at different lines, learn more before deciding on this breeder. I would not rush into it without learning more.
There are many, many showline breeders out there...don't limit yourself to your general area. 
And with you working 12 hour shifts, who will help in caring for a young pup? They need to be let out ever couple hours when very young to potty. 
Maybe an older pup with some training and temperament testing would be a better fit for you. Contact some GSD rescues and see if they'll work with you. A fenced yard isn't always a requirement to adopt.


----------



## eliasmae (Dec 20, 2010)

Hi All,

Thanks a TON for the information so far. I noticed that they didn't have any females posted either, that was a little surprising to me as well. You have shown me exactly why I love this site: unbiased and thoughtful help and opinions. I know everyone is looking out for the best interest of me and whatever future pup/adult I get!

I have decided to look elsewhere, unless I can get some concrete answers on titles and why there are no females listed.

Another site I looked at was called Haus Lucht Shepherds German Shepherds Puppies for sale

I had spoken with the breeder, Steve a few times as well. He seems great, but I know that can be misleading and ultimately, some people are just trying to be salesmen! He said they will have an upcoming litter in Feb/March. Might look into that. He said the sire Yacco (who is used as a stud and is not one of his dogs) will be the sire for that litter, with one of his females listed. Any thoughts on those?

To answer your questions about my long hours, yes there are people at my house to help me raise this dog. It would not be left crated for 12 hours at a time. I would also be able to come home on my break (6hrs) and spend some time with it. The benefit of this is that I get 4 days a week to spend as much time as possible with the dog! So thank you all for the concern on that, I had that covered and just forgot to mention it!

THANK YOU all again! So helpful. Your continued input is much appreciated!


----------



## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

I think having someone help out for the few days you work is perfect. I would LOVE that schedule b/c like you said, it leaves you with lots of other days to work with the pup. 

I want to point out on the first breeder that they say trained for tracking and has a trailing title. As someone who has trained in SAR, tracking and trailing are two quite different things.

I agree with Jane, would MUCH prefer my breeder pick my pup over me trying to from one (or a couple) of short times with the litter.

Good luck with your continued search!


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

The best breeders will select the puppy for you based on THEIR experience and background on their puppies. As a mix for YOU background/experience and lifestyle! It's vital for their to be the best mix so both new owner and puppy are a good match. 

I've now raised and trained 4 dogs and let me tell you, when I look at a litter they are all just adorable and fuzzy and I wouldn't trust the one I'd pick!


----------



## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

12 hours is a long time and if you can get back for 30 minutes to let them out that would be great.

You wouldn not be the first person to have a puppy alone for that long. **** with working a full 9 hours ( 8 hours plus lunch hour) and then travel time to and from work not to mention traffic or trip to the store and all....mine was left home that long.

Puppy can survive. Sure they will use the bathroom and just realize that you will have to clean it up, thats all. Make sure to spend plenty of time with them. Plus working 12 hour shifts you are not working 5 days a week either so it can certainly work.


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Actually I don't really agree that the best breeder will select the puppy for you There are lots of different ways of doing things that work out just fine-I was able to pick from 3 females and Rorie just kinda picked me out-


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

My breeder didn't choose Sinister for me, I chose Sinister and he is absolutely perfect for me and everything that I was looking for.

But you wont always get lucky doing it that way.

The breeder spends the most time with the puppies, so he/she would know them best. They should choose the puppy for you but you need to give them as much detail as possible about what kind of puppy you are looking for.


----------



## clb10 (Dec 21, 2010)

JKlatsky said:


> Now looking through this breeder's website...one thing that jumps out at me that I don't like. Only the males are listed. Are there are ALOT of them. Females are every bit as important if not more so to a breeding program as the males.
> 
> Also, I see an extensive list of accomplishments in talking about the dogs...but no titles. Now I'm a giant skeptic. Not saying that this is necessarily true, this breeder could have all the credentials and just for whatever reason has chosen not to list them on her website, but I like to see proof for accomplishments otherwise I think it's safer as a buyer to assume they don't exist.
> 
> ...


I have been a long time lurker on this board as I love the info that I can find about different topics. However, I had to register to respond to this question of the first breeder mentioned. After reading some of the replies about this breeders website, I had to speak up because many of the points made about this breeder couldn't be further from the truth. I have dealt with Vom Buflods twice as our family bought two of their females- both adults. We were interested in German lines. We have nothing but great things to say about our experience. They are a smaller breeder, but no...not "a breeding operation" as the above quote states. The website is just what it is...."a website". You cannot judge the way some breeders are soley based on a website. If you want "proof" of their accomplishments, if you'd like to meet their dogs, pups, females, or males, I would make an appointment to visit with them in person and I am sure Kathy and Hans would be happy to tell you everything you want to know. Another thing, YES, they really do match people with a dog. I was looking for a certain personality and they didn't suggest a couple other of their females that I wouldve been interested in due to their personalities. They were extremely honest and will stand behind their dogs/pups. I was also told, being that I bought an adult, that if it didn't work out, I would be able to return her. This is also true for pups. Just because they say they will hold a future pup with a deposit shouldn't bring red flags up either. I would just like to say that if you are really interested in a breeder, you should make a trip to their kennel and talk with these people in person. A website can really lead people to believe things that are absolutely untrue. I just thought I'd mention this. Another thing, as far as training goes, Hans, is a trainer and they offer their services as well. Good luck in your search!


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

LaRen616 said:


> My breeder didn't choose Sinister for me, I chose Sinister and he is absolutely perfect for me and everything that I was looking for.
> 
> 
> But you wont always get lucky doing it that way.
> ...


Well put... :blush:


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Hi there,

Since you work such long hours you might consider adopting a little older puppy or adult dog instead of starting with a baby puppy.I am originally from Cincinnati and went down there to adopt my most recent dog, Rafi. I found there were a lot of really nice gsds available for adoption in the area (and even more in KY!). I do have a fenced in yard and many years of experience so my situation was different but there are rescues who do not have the fenced yard requirement, as long as you have a plan in place for exercise, etc. I had strict requirements and there were quite a few dogs who fit what I was looking for. 

Have you touched base with any of the rescues in the area? Rafi was a courtesy listing through MPM German Shepherd Rescue. Pet Search Results: Adoptable Pets in Cincinnati, OH: Petfinder Right now it looks like they have some younger dogs who would be a good fit for you. 

I can't remember the other rescues I applied through (because I fell in love with Rafi the minute I met him and didn't meet any of the other dogs I had inquired about) but I would follow through with them if there are specific dogs you're interested in.


----------



## klramper (Jun 22, 2011)

My friend and I both purchased dogs from ** Name removed by Admin** was a pleasure to work with through the process. Unfortunately my ten month old tested as a carrier for degenerate myelopothy. Being a carrier means he will not show signs because he only has the one gene. What bothers me is if they are not aware, the problem now becomes greater because the continuation of the breeding may result in puppies being affected if both parents are carriers. Also if I had chosen to breed my male and didn't know he was a carrier and breed with another carrier the outcome for puppies and owners could be horrific. If both parents are affected then all puppies will be affected. As it is a genetic "auto immune system" disease, I assume rightly or wrongly that some unknown breeder, failed to comprehend what it was, and bred it into the stream that he/she was creating. Diseases like this normally are self-destructive, that is to say either it will not breed true, or kills its recipient, before it can be passed on. Degenerative Myelopathy unfortunately appears to breed true, and can be seen to have infected German Shepherds, and then passed across the breeds to other large dogs. Please when buying a german shepherd puppy ask the breeders if they test for DM and to see the results!
Degenerative Myelopathy - Is It Stalking Your Dog?


----------



## TheITGuy (Aug 3, 2018)

eliasmae said:


> Another site I looked at was called Haus Lucht Shepherds
> 
> Did that ever work out for you? I know this is an old thread but I'm looking at pups from them now as well.


----------

