# Craziness towards other dogs on leash...



## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I am really having a hard time with taking Stella for a walk if other dogs are around. She is really fine with other dogs when at doggie day care or during a play date. In obedience class she takes a little while but generally settles down. The trainer is very happy with her improvement with dog reaction. Let me say....she sounds like a lunatic....lunging, barking, growing....but let her get to the dog and she is ready to play. The problem I am having is that her continued improvement in class is not crossing over into the real world. I try to take her hiking or walking everyday. Needless to say, others are doing the same with their dogs. The weather is getting warmer so more dogs and people are out too. She doesn't care about anything when she sees another dog. I am thinking I will by horse blinders for her!!!!


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## *Lisa* (Nov 20, 2011)

I feel your pain! We are experiencing the same issues with Jazmyn. Entering puppy class she shows her craziness, but within 5 minutes she's calmed down and is really focused, the other dogs don't bother her. She also does fairly well off leash in a play group.

On walks, on leash, is very different. Dogs grab her attention and she just can't let it go or unfocus from them. Barks, lunges, etc all to try and get there.

We're are going to areas with dogs & people, and letting her watch what is going on around her. We're using a clicker to mark & reward when she looks, but doesn't react. We're at about 50% right now. Also, when she is reacting, we may have to jump around like a lunatic, but we mark & reward the second she focuses back on us.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

What have you been doing in class that things have gotten better? I would take those exercises and expectation to the outdoors and work on it there. 

Go somewhere where there are other dogs, and instead of just walking on leash, bring your treats or other rewards and work on focus and obedience exercises. Bring your treats on walks, redirect her to focus and obedience BEFORE she reacts (because good luck to snap her out of her frenzy once she starts).


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

In class I turn her away from the dogs and treat treat treat. It is easier in class I think because a lot of times the dogs are not moving towards her as when we are out walking.  
I have always taken her to places with dogs and people. I have actually contemplated stopping that for now as I am afraid she is going to pull my arms out of their sockets, nevermind that she must scare the pants off of the people who see her going nuts. 
I am really upset with this behavior. I have a 9 year old newfie mix who started this kind of behavior shortly after 12 months. I wound up dropping out of agility with him as it was getting too stressful for me to manage him around the other dogs. At the time the trainer was fine with him being in the class. It was ME that wasn't fine. Plus life situation at the time really didn't allow me to fully work on it with him. Fortunately his aggression was towards other dogs, NEVER PEOPLE. We have managed the behavior but he sure has missed out on going places with us because of this. I want to try to avoid this situation with Stella.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

leash reactive.

biz was leash reactive also, he would get a correction at the very first instant he perked up about seeing another dog, and a leave it command.
we would never stop to see the other dog. that is just giving into him.

you control who and when your dog should meet.
biz is no long leash reactive and we can walk by dogs going berserk and not a peep from him.


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

Are you doing NILIF? It sounds like a case of the dog not "minding" your wishes, and NILIF will help to build that mindset in her.

Then you just have to get out there and practice at a range where she does NOT go nuts. Put the long hikes where other dogs are on hold, until you spend some time in 'rehabilitation' getting slowly closer to where dogs are. Sometimes it will be unavoidable when you encounter dogs, but do your best to control the distance. Each time she goes nuts, that association between excitement, barking, YOU getting stressed, etc. is made with other dogs. So keep it at a distance and save the uncontrolled environment for later otherwise you will be putting the dog in a position to fail and it will reinforce the reactive behavior. Work on rewarding the dog for ignoring other dogs.

I'm not a huge fan of corrections for this. To me it seems the dog needs to know what to do in these situations, and if the correction is not given properly (at the right time, and to stop a precise behavior), it is just another negative stressful thing that will be associated with other dogs. That said, I do use corrections after a "leave it" is ignored and the fixation/staring continues. That helps to snap the dog out of the fixation. But if the other dog is so close, or is running so fast, that a "leave it" and a light correction is not going to work, then just focus on MANAGEMENT. Walk into the dog to redirect his gaze, keep an assertive yet relaxed grip on the leash and put the dog at your side, not out in front. If it is clear to you that the dog is going to fixate for whatever reason, he can at least do so without barking/lunging. If you spend too much time trying to correct the fixation, it will just add to the frustration. So know when it's going to work and when you need to just body block. Keep everything as calm as possible, make this your focus.

Spend as much time as possible around other dogs where she is not fixating and reacting. You want to recreate the association from excitement to calmness. It takes time but working at a distance is key.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

i thought it was the leash too but yesterday she was loose in the dog park. i went early in the morning before others usually arrive. but someone did come just as we were getting ready to leave. stella charged the fence and went into lunatic mode. they put their large dog into the small dog area. stella continued carrying on for a short while but then started yipping and play bowing. i still left. then today we were walking down the road and when coming around the bend we saw a lady walking her 2 dogs. they were quite a distance away and going in the same direction we were. stella started barking but not as crazy as usual. i tried to redirect her but that wasnt happening. eventually they moved out of sight and stella stopped barking. i dont really know why she does this.....fear? over excitement? i do say leave it but i dont think she even hears it once she starts. i practice nilif with her as well. 
what kind of a correction would you suggest?


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

i try to body block, turn her, go the other way.... i even made some high value chicken liver treats this morning. the lunacy continues.
i think i am going to try to walk her in town every day. maybe we will see other dogs and can just cross the street or find a bench to sit on and observe from a distance?


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## Sir Bear (Mar 9, 2012)

We're working on this with Bear as well and it gets better every day. I think the biggest challenge is trying to remain CALM when YOU see another dog and are anticipating another embarrassing, stressful episode from your dog. Believe me, I know its mortifying when you're the owner with "that dog" in the neighborhood. :blush: When you see another dog think "a new chance to practice manners! yes!" and keep it positive. I used to think all the "remain calm yourself" advice was bs, but walk tall, fast, and with purpose and it may make all the difference. She can still be the dog you want her to be! Just my experience, good luck!

AND good on you for getting back out there and continuing to try, the worst thing you could do is not take her out at all because it's hard. Keep up the good work!


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## jennyp (Jun 18, 2011)

Sir Bear said:


> We're working on this with Bear as well and it gets better every day. I think the biggest challenge is trying to remain CALM when YOU see another dog and are anticipating another embarrassing, stressful episode from your dog. Believe me, I know its mortifying when you're the owner with "that dog" in the neighborhood. :blush: When you see another dog think "a new chance to practice manners! yes!" and keep it positive. I used to think all the "remain calm yourself" advice was bs, but walk tall, fast, and with purpose and it may make all the difference. She can still be the dog you want her to be! Just my experience, good luck!
> 
> AND good on you for getting back out there and continuing to try, the worst thing you could do is not take her out at all because it's hard. Keep up the good work!


YES!!!! Keeping calm and putting a positive spin on the situation is key!! I know I would get tense anticipating another episode when I saw a dog approaching. I noticed that I was reacting before Brody even noticed the dog! Now we play the Look At That Game and its "yay we get to practice!" This kind of outlook has really empowered me in situations where I used to feel horribly overwhelmed.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I am trying the LAT game. I really don't think I am doing it right though....
Anyhow, I am waiting to hear from 2 trainers I have tried to talk to. I guess I am not on the top of their list..lol. 
Tomorrow is another day...sigh.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Progress.... had trainer come. Liked some of her advice but not all. Working on the dog reactivity issue. Yesterday and today I was able to distract Stella from a dog in the field. Yes the dog was far away but it is a step in a good direction. I am also discouraging the barking at cats and dogs while in the yard. Sunday was not so great.... Dogs walking toward us on a narrow trail...oh well. Today I was trying to observe her body lanquage...it looks to me like the barking and carrying on is excitement....


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

I apologise in advance for the length of this post, but I've been reading the posts about your dogs, and I thought I'd tell you what we did with our last seriously reactive GSD. 

He was above average size and named Sam. We were his 4th or 5th owners by the time he was 12 months old, and he was basically out of control. He had never received any serious training or been walked on a leash. When off leash, he would to run up to other dogs to play. He also loved people and would run to them for a fuss, but had no manners, and would jump up them. Now people don't mind too much when they're puppies, even big puppies - but when a 100 pound dog comes racing towards you at full speed and barks to say hello - people do mind - to say the least. 

We didn't really want another dog, because we'd already got a GSD and three cats, and I'd been critically ill, and wasn't fully recovered. We'd met Sam before, knew his two previous owners, and were aware of his history - we didn't want to risk him being euthanized, without giving him one last chance. So he joined our family. 

He had him neutered, hoping it would calm him down - it didn't.

It took us close on a year to train him and calm him down in the house and then to be honest we couldn't fault him, he turned out to be the most gentle, loving, playful dog, fantastic with children and other dogs who came into the house. He loved going to the vets, and sat calmly in a waiting room full of dogs - as long as they were fairly still - as soon as they started walking - he'd lunge at them.

But outside on walks or in the car - a whole different matter - every dog, person, bike, and pushchair would elicit major reactions. We were never sure whether it was just OTT exhuberance or aggression, bought on by the fact that he was restricted by the leash. 

When we took him a walk, he walked lovely on a loose lead and wouldn't pull - but he would cry, bark and squeal, until we got to the open grassed land (common) 600 yards from our house. He was so bad, that until they got used to him we had most of the neighbours rushing out of their houses because they thought he had been run over by a car. 

Once at the common he would calm the noise down, but was constantly on high alert. No matter how much fun he was having, or however we tried to distract him, the second a dog appeared in the distance, or even a person sometimes, he would pull quickly towards it, barking, squealing and generally going crazy. He was exhausting and I really struggled to hold him, he was so strong and powerful. If we were ever caught out fairly close to a dog, I really can't explain just how much he pulled, literally every muscle in my body was strained, as I desperately tried to hold onto him, and my OH would have to help hold him as well.

I'd had a reactive dog before, and sorted him reasonably easily with leash corrections and 'leave it'. But not Sammy, he would be choking himself and frothing at the mouth. Quite frankly he was an absolute nightmare, and there were times we wouldn't take him for a walk for weeks, because we just couldn't cope with him.

Because of the above we avoided dogs as much as humanly possible, by driving to out the way places, taking walks at quiet times, and in bad weather. If we did spot a dog in the distance we would turn around before he had chance to see them if at all possible. Of course it wasn't always possible as he was on constant alert and I'd end up with an enormous battle trying to get him out of sight of the other dog, but even if I'd turned round and the other dog was completely out of sight he would still carry on squealing and pulling me backwards, for a minute or two. 

We then found out about head collars, and tried the Gentle leader and the Halti. They both helped a little, but I still couldn't get enough control over him. 

The experienced trainers we sort help from had no suggestions or ideas how to sort him out - other than what we were already doing. Even a retired Instructor of Police Dog handlers had no further suggestions. At first he thought it was my lack of confidence - until he witnessed him in action - then he thought he had a brain problem. He would be lying calmly within a few feet of loads of dogs, and then without a hint of warning my arm was practically out of it's socket. He described him as "the nutty shepherd"

We even applied to "It's Me or the Dog" when it first appeared one UK TV - but were unsuccessful.

We dreaded taking him out, and even considered getting rid of him, but we loved him too much. We were even tempted to try a shock collar. But as he'd already been jerked, practically choked , been sprayed with water spray bottle and citronella spray collar - we couldn't see how having an electric shock would help.

Eventually we managed to find a good halter, and coupled it with a no-pull harness - that enabled me to keep in under control and turn him easier, so walks weren't quite so stressful but otherwise nothing changed. I still had no idea how to keep him calm. 

For close on nine long years we carried on like this, never sure if he wanted to play or wanted to fight. We suspected he wanted to play, but he was so forceful and out of control we never got the chance to find out for sure. 

Then out of pure frustration we made a breakthrough. 

We decided not to turn him around and move him away from other dogs, unless we could do so before he'd spotted them - what was the point - we'd done that for years and he was getting no better - in fact he'd got worse over the years - there was no such thing as a safe distance. 

So, as soon as a dog came into view I just left him to it and either stood still or turned on the spot with him running round me like a horse in training ring, until he eventually stopped pulling, squealing and barking and calmed down - took like what seemed forever - but he would eventually calm down - he had no choice. Then, instead of turning around and walking away from the other dog, I didn't, I just loosened the leash, and to my surprise he didn't pull towards the other dog, he just stood watching calmly, and that gave me the chance to tell him what a good boy he was. We stood there for a while and then I decided to walk towards the other dog as long as he remained calm, I just kept telling him how good he was. Don't get me wrong he couldn't control his frustration for too long and he started going ballistic again, but the time he kept calm for got longer and longer. 

Slowly over the next few months we got the distance down from no safe distance at all to about 50 feet, less sometimes. For the first time in all the years we had him we were all starting to enjoy our walks. 
He basically started to understand the only way he was allowed to go closer to a dog was if he was calm. 

Sadly, and to my forever regret, he then became suddenly ill and we had to have him pts. I so wish I'd had more time with him, we were getting so close to him meeting another dog calmly. I just know he would have loved that. 

I hope that info helps in some way.

Sue


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks for sharing that story. Sounds like you worked hard and it was paying off. I took Stella for a walk next to the dog park. It is a big field. There is a fence that separates the field and the dog park. There were 3 dogs int he park when we started out training walk. At first as usual, Stella went into lunacy mode. After a lot of turning around until she calmed down, and leave it commands, she seemed to get that she needed to relax if she wanted to see the other dogs. We finally got up to the fence where she was able to sniff and check out the other dogs. Will try to do this as often as possible. I was watching her closely to try and read her body language. I would say she is just is sooooooo excited, not aggressive. Of course another dog might not quite understand that. So we are a work in progress.


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