# Loose leash training; Suggestions only pls!



## Technostorm (May 24, 2009)

Hi all, 

For the past 2 months, I've failed miserably trying to train my boy to walk nicely on loose leash. He does quite well when off leash sometimes since he is a velcro dog but would tend to weave in and out of my legs and at times his herding instincts kicks in and he'll weave left and right just barely in front of me making my daughters and I trip constantly. 

***Before you go on posting telling me to give him a break because he's only a baby or cut him some slack. I thank you for reminding me but I've heard enough of those. I don't mean to sound harsh or rude but those same people might not have succeeded and I tend to read their problem posts all the time.. So please, no hard feeling! I'm here for training suggestions only and NOT some "Give him a break because he's a baby and needs time to learn" or "you are too hard on him and yourself". Nope! seriously, for consistenly 2 full month of twice daily walks, I've watched videos, paid for a dog trainer, read books and even took a vacation so I can spend more time studying, reading, bonding, playing and learning how to help my boy walk in a nicer manner. This is NOT about how I feel or should feel, this is about how I can utilize the training methods from other more experienced problemsolvers who can offer some sort of coaching..I'm sorry if this section offended you or I sound like an arrogant donkeyrear but I feel the need to express my honest feeling about some of the posters I've read in the past..****

Ok, so he is now 17 weeks (4 months) old and from 8 weeks I've been trying desperately to make him walk calmly and nicely alongside me. Again, I've failed!. I've watched different videos, consulted with trainers, patiently watched more videos, read books upon books. Still I failed. 

Some of the things I've done in the training:

1. Lots of treats, make him focus, clicker, praise, toys. All in the privacy of the community housing during the day where there is hardly any distraction whatsoever. 
2. Tried, tying the leash to my waist, walk 3 steps, click, praise and treat only to have him immediately pull before I can hand him the treats. 
3. Same as above, tossing the treats 1 step back so he can turn around to pick it up, then he pulls again. 
4. Again, same as above, he'd weave around my legs and end up on the right side of me and sits. 
5. Above, pulling almost to a point of strangling him because he is pulling harder and harder. All this time I've tried not to put any pressure on the leash since it is tied to my waist. 
5. Above with hand holding the leash instead, he sense my hand holding and pulls even harder. Totally ignoring me and trying to head to the next bush to the side. 
5. Above, sniffing, playing, jumping and for some reasons, any and all treats are being disregarded because his attention is full on the bushes or grass area. And no, he's not wanting to sniff and pee or poop. 
6. Above, when he pulls, I stand still, he continues to pull. 
7. Above, when he pulls, I turn around and walk the other way, he pulls, fails, turns around run past me and pulls ahead.
8. Above, but pulls to the side ignoring my treat and me altogether.
9. Above, runs around in circle and keeps pulling.
10. Above, pulls, I make him sit 5 seconds so he can calm down, as soon as he sense I starting to walk, he'd pull ahead again and again.. 

I've resorted all my resourses and am thinking to just board him for loose leash training but then again, I kinda feel bad so asking for some last advices before making my decisions. 

Lastly, I've used just about all types of collar except prong collar which may be hard on him at this age. 
Dan


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I will state that I think you are expecting too much from a four month old puppy but that's just my opinion.

You say: 6. Above, when he pulls, I stand still, he continues to pull. 

So, what happens when he continues to pull?

What should happen is NOTHING. You should not MOVE until there is slack in the leash.

YEa, that may mean you stand there for 5, 10 or even 20 minutes while he pulls and pulls and pulls. He has to LEARN that he only moves forward when there is slack in the leash.

So - he pulls, you stop, he finally gives some slack in the leash, you praise, say GO EASY (or whatever word you are going to use for telling him not to pull) and then move forward.

And he rushes forward and starts pulling again.

So - you stop, he finally gives some slack in the leash, you praise, say GO EASY (or whatever word you are going to use for telling him not to pull) and then move forward.

And he rushes forward and starts pulling again.

So - you stop, he finally gives some slack in the leash, you praise, say GO EASY (or whatever word you are going to use for telling him not to pull) and then move forward.

Get the idea?

These are TRAINING sessions - not pleasure walks. You need to TEACH him not to pull on leash before you can expect him to go for a walk without pulling.

Also, since he IS still young and full of energy, make sure you are walking at a brisk pace.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

I agree 100% with Lauri. 

I know how you feel. I saw all these videos of amazing little puppies heeling perfectly on-leash, off-leash with focus on their owners faces. W/E!
I'm not saying you should cut him some slack, I am saying you're expecting too much







Hmm.. Is there a difference? Prolly not...


Your puppy will tell you when he's ready to start doing that. I pretty much gave up on heel work with Denali (5 months old) and only expect loose leash.

Here's how I did it:
**Note- She still does NOT walk next to me all the time. Maybe for like 5 seconds at a time. She walks in front of me and behind me. When she DOES end up next to me on her own, I praise.**

She pulled on the leash- I turned and walked the other way.

She pulled in that direction- I turned the other way.
We walked in one big circle until she figured out that I was not going where she wanted to go at her pace. She was going where I wanted to go at my pace!









Sometimes - She pulled, I stopped. Slack on the leash = keep moving.

Tension on the leash - STOP again! It takes forever just to go around the block.

When people walk with me they get annoyed because Denali is still in training. 
ALSO- DO NOT let other people walk your dog. 

Most people that don't know your dog will either let them get away with their puppy behavior or correct them wayyyy too harshly. 

Just my .02

ETA: I've also noticed that it took Denali much longer to learn how to walk on a lead with twice a day walks as her only leash training. 
My advice would be take him outside 4-5 times and practice not pulling on the leash. 
As in, walking in circles until he gets it and as soon as he shows a tiny bit of improvement end the training on a happy note and go back inside. 

I've also completely eliminated treat training on walks for now. 
She's too exuberant over getting her treat and it actually works AGAINST leash training for me. 
Stopping or turning around when she pulls has done the best job.


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## Technostorm (May 24, 2009)

Thanks Lauri and Denali, 

I've tried both methods.. I guess I should say I was a little discourage after failing so much for so long. He IS indeed a baby hence a good time to train him how pleasurable it is to walk nicely. I did cut him slacks.. maybe too much. LOL

It took me 1.2 hours today to walk from the yard to 5 houses away and back. That's estimated 250 yards max.. The reason was, he pulls, I stop.. he pulls I stop until he relax. But during all this time, we've had 3 water stops with me pouring water on a portable bowl just so he can sip some water from the exhaustions. I mean, he pulls and pulls, and I stop, sometimes as long as 20 minutes. During that 20 min, he pulls until he is exhausted so he lays on the ground. 

I've also tried turning around many, many times.. I almost got a dizzy spell from turning around so much. LOL.. I did it with treats, without treats, with praise but never once did I scold him or raised my voice. I had to take deep breaths at times just to calm myself so I didn't translate my frustration over the leash. 

hehe.. I don't mean I wanted him to become a schH pup nor prove that he's an obedience dog. I just wanted him to enjoy the walks but frustrations sometimes overshadows my intentions. I don't expect him to be "the perfect puppy". But I've seen and known puppies as young as 3 months old qualified and achieve CGC. Dogs I've known who does heeling patterns at 4 months. And that's not saying I expect that either.. I just really, really, really want him to enjoy some quality outside walk time together.. At this point, I'll take any and all advices and even jump thru hoops backward while wearing a snorkeling mask and fins just to get him to do that.. /cry


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## Technostorm (May 24, 2009)

Hmm, I just had a thought. Maybe he's too energetic and may have some pinned up energy during the walks. I'll drain him down some more with fetch and play or maybe a light tredmill run this afternoon before we walk again. 

I'm also thinking custmizing some "blinkers" and letting him try it that way may help. My mind is still shooting around thinking of different methods to try.. I'm determined to help him walk correctly..


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

You can also try heeling inside the house. 
Put the leash on him and do some exercises inside. 4-5x a day.

Then do those exercises 4-5x a day again but outside until he gets it.

1.2 hours is way too long!








He's getting bored AND frustrated just as much as you are.

Quick sessions work best.

Snap his leash on, go outside. When he pulls turn around or stop, wait, wait, wait, walk, stop, walk, stop, walk. 
15 mins go by? Go back inside. 

Go back outside in 1 hr and do it all over again.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Breathe. You sound very frustrated and I'm guessing you're getting this frustrated on your "walks" with what you consider (at the time) a demon puppy from [heck].









I found the walks where I went out EXPECTING Anna to walk perfect or to "get it" was when she did her worst. And then I'd get worked up and mad and p'od and I know this transferred down the leash, making her less willing to try to be a good girl. Now the walks where I just throw on the leash and go out with little or no expectations are the ones she does wonderfully on...BUT it did take us a while to get to this point...she's 11 months today and still has bad walk days. I had to train myself to be of low expectations. She also does better when it's just me...not with DH or with Duncan, just the two of us.

We also stop in places to do some basic OB that she KNOWS inside and out...like sits. We'll stop in a quiet area, I ask her to sit and when she does she gets a big "GOOD GIRL!!!" a treat if I have one and some lovin. Then an upbeat "Good girl! Let's go!" this tends to have her focus on me for a while, I think she bathes in the ego boost.

Have you tried tiring him out before a walk? Like a big fetch/tug session? Change up your path so he wants to slow down and sniff? The month I thought I was going to kill Anna I took her to new parks and places other than the hood. Not only did she see new stuff which often made her look to me for approval, but she was taking in so much she hardly had time to pull around.

Basically, she walks in front of me on a mostly loose leash. I'm hoping by Jan. the OB class will help me with heel. I talk to her on the walks and keep a good upbeat attitude and tone and try to enjoy it. Days I feel like I want to kill her, we cut it short and head home, a p'od walk is not beneficial to either of us.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: TechnostormHmm, I just had a thought. Maybe he's too energetic and may have some pinned up energy during the walks. I'll drain him down some more with fetch and play or maybe a light tredmill run this afternoon before we walk again.
> 
> I'm also thinking custmizing some "blinkers" and letting him try it that way may help. My mind is still shooting around thinking of different methods to try.. I'm determined to help him walk correctly..


Fetch is good because he can stop when he gets tired but I don't think the treadmill is good for a 4 month old puppy.
You can't really know when he's ready to stop so you're forcing him to exercise. Running on the hard surface isn't good for his joints.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Well I would say if YOU are having trouble getting the results you want.

Then YOU need the training and not the puppy.

So where are you training? Who are you training with? What do they suggest/recommend? And if you are going somewhere and not happy with them, go somewhere else who has a perfectly trained 4 month old puppy and use their method instead.

How many puppies have you trained so you know to have the high expectation you do, rather then lowering them like the rest of us are suggesting.

Cause frankly, I have one of the top agility GSD's in the USA right now and I would never expect what you do from a 4 month old as far as obedience. What I want from a 4 month old is excitement and enthusiasm to learn. LOVING and wanting to be with me and learn from me. THAT is what I work on with a young puppy. And then what I get is an older dog that does well in whatever venue (obedience/agility) that I choose.

What I get when I cut a puppy some slack by 5 months old:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kro4NqlaA24

And what this gets me a few years later

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks87zxLP3DE

You want to have a great adult dog, you work on getting a great puppy. Not an OBEDIENT puppy. But a happy, confident and loving puppy. Though I think you may be impressed by this 6 month old puppy heeling 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v559F522jV8 if you were using her methods I bet you'd be further along and less frustrated.

http://www.clickerdogs.com/


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

I feel ANY puppy training is best with a semi tired puppy. Play times before, during and after training sessions. 

What else have you has success in training him to do and what methods worked to train them?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Frankly, I do understand your frustration about the leash and pulling. Instead of fighting my pups, I just don't expect to exercise them using a leash.

This is what we do to exercise, pretty much every other day. BTW the sable puppy is 4 months old:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc3pNhDOuwU


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Maggie I LOVE those videos you posted


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliMaggie I LOVE those videos you posted


You have great taste! 

By the time Glory is 10 years old I'll really have the editing down. Funny how if you look at the first hiking video when she's so young, it's so blurry you can hardly tell it's dogs running thru the woods!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Technostorm***Before you go on posting telling me to give him a break because he's only a baby or cut him some slack. I thank you for reminding me but I've heard enough of those.


It sounds to me like you haven't heard the right message then. 

It's not about "going easy" on a dog, it's about appropriate age-based training. Knowing the learning and developmental staegs that a puppy goes through in order to become a dog. 

It's about understanding what their emotional and physical needs are too, not just those that you project onto your puppy.

You will not have the perfect dog. People continue to have problems because, guess what, dogs are individuals. You can work with them and make them the best dog they can be for who they are, and heck, they may become perfect in your eyes, but they will not be perfect.

By the way, a lot of that will come with age, as the dog learns how to learn and interact. Puppyhood is *not* about perfect sits, in my opinion, it's about teaching the dog how to learn, how to interact with the world around him.

If you board him for something like leash training, you are probably going to break your dog, and you will have more to be sad for than what you are currently feeling. No doubt, your dog will probably come back, able to walk with a loose leash. But it won't last because you don't have the proper training, and in the process, you will have done damage to your young pup.

No training technique can replace the process of maturing, and it seems that you haven't taken that into consideration.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

If puppy could talk, he'd say: "Helllp!! Arrrghh!! This guy walks too slow! Like molasses in January! I am just DYING here!! AAAARRRGGHH! The sheer agonizing TORTURE! Can't stand it, can't can't CAN'T!! Somebody HELP me with this guy! Any advice? Quick! I need advice to be in snippy, fast, snappy soudbites! Hurry!"









It's _somewhat _possible to get _some_ *short* walks in with a youngster this age behaving on lead. But, we do understand that we are actually going against nature in expecting a zippy, energetic baby pup (even one very well excersised!) to stroll calmly by our sides as we ploddingly perambulate on our daily constitutionals







... I hope these ideas help:

*Tethering technique:* Tie a 6 ft lightweight nylon teaching lead to your belt loop. Clip the puppy to the lead. Wear it all day long, all evening long. Each time you get up to get some coffee, go pee, get a snack, answer the phone, etc, puppy comes too. A puppy is attached to you alllll dayyy long. When you move, he moves. Where you go, he goes. This is difficult. The results, after 2 solid weeks, are: A puppy who has learned to move WITH you as second nature, and naturally reads and anticipates your moves, and stays by your side.

Excersise the pup in a secure fenced area by throwing 2 balls for retrieval games. This takes some of the excess energy away, but, be aware that even exhausted pups desperately need to walk faster than we will want to on a stroll. (and, you should of course never exhaust your puppy, he needs that energy for growth, repair, healing, etc.. just let him excersise enough to blast out excess energy)

If puppy surges ahead, do a quick body-block. Claim the space. Block his path. "No, heel." 

Keep the strolls SHORT. Otherwise, he learns that he will need to fall apart at the end of walks and get crazy again.. cos walks with Mr Slow-Motion are gonna drive him nuts and he'll anticipate that. Short walks. Many of them. Set him and you both up for success!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLeeWell I would say if YOU are having trouble getting the results you want.
> Then YOU need the training and not the puppy.
> So where are you training? Who are you training with? What do they suggest/recommend? And if you are going somewhere and not happy with them, go somewhere else who has a perfectly trained 4 month old puppy and use their method instead.
> How many puppies have you trained so you know to have the high expectation you do, rather then lowering them like the rest of us are suggesting.
> ...


 I believe this post is one of the best pieces of advice for anyone with a pup! It doesn't matter if your pup is a future agility or SchH star, or just a couch potato, it is to have a happy, confident loving dog after the puppy stage is over. 
Enjoy your puppy while you can . They grow up and then you say "where did my cute little pup go?" If a 3 month old pup earns his CGC, at one year he could fail it because he is a teenage butthead.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Technostorm***Before you go on posting telling me to give him a break because he's only a baby or cut him some slack. I thank you for reminding me but I've heard enough of those.
> ...


I know you don't want to hear it, but I agree. Sorry, but two months of training a very young puppy, even twice a day, is really not that long in the grand scheme of things. Just because some people have been able to have young puppies be perfect on leash by now does not mean that you will, no matter how excellent your training techniques. Or that I have. Or that anyone else who has posted on this thread with excellent suggestions has. Most of the time, it takes TIME and patience. If you've truly made no progress at all, then yes, I'd say you need to try something else, or at least try some of those things with more consistency before giving up and trying something else. Not to beat you up, but you listed 10 different things you've tried in only 2 months! 

Halo is almost 9-1/2 months old, and she's just in the last couple of weeks made a lot of progress. But she's NOT perfect, she still gets distracted, and she'll still sometimes pull towards something she's interested in. And she's months older and more mature than your puppy, with a much longer attention span. We just got back from a 3-1/2 mile hike at a nearby lake and she was within two feet of heel position for at least 75-80% of the walk. That's HUGE!!!! I've been taking her there for walks 2 or 3 times a week for almost two months, and the first time it took us at least 20 minutes to walk the block from the car to the entrance of the park. Back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and stop and freeze and back and forth and stop and freeze and back and forth some more. Yes, it was awful, yes it was frustrating. Yes, I thought maybe I'd made a mistake and jumped ahead too fast. But we persisted. 

What's made the biggest difference for us is a clicker and treats. I don't give her any commands, but if she gets ahead of me I either stop and wait for her to hit the end of the leash and notice me and then I back up slowly, gently pulling her towards me, and then I pivot so that we're walking side by side in the opposite direction, or I just turn around immediately and go the other way. We do that as many times as necessary until she's staying near my side (I'm not looking for perfect heel position, just a loose leash near me) consistently. When she is, particularly when she looks up at me, I mark it with the clicker and reward her. I now use probably half as many treats as I used to, most of the time I just tell her how wonderful she's being and only reward her with a treat when she's in perfect position with eye contact, which she does spontaneously. I don't ask for or expect that on a long walk, but I do acknowledge and reward it when she offers it, and guess what - she now offers it up quite a bit! She's so used to me stopping if she gets a few steps ahead of me that she often turns around before she even hits the end of the leash - I put the loop around my wrist and hold some of the slack in my hand, and when she gets too far ahead I drop the part of the leash I'm holding, bending my wrist up to keep the loop on. She must feel the leash go suddenly slack, which has become a cue for her to stop and come back to me, most of the time without saying a word.

I also did a lot of work with her off leash around the house, using a treat or a toy held at my waist. We practiced taking just a step or two with an automatic sit when I stop, lured with a treat at first, then a verbal cue to sit without the lure, and then just waiting for the sit - mark and treat. We practiced lots of right and left turns, and walking in a circle. Practice, practice, practice.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Hmm. Looks like we're all agreeing that the puppy is too young to be expected to calmly walk on lead like a grown up dog. Must be that I'm NOT the only one who's been dragged behind a 4 month old puppy?







(hey, he was a STRONG puppy!







)


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

You have excellent advice given by everybody. I will too join those who believe you expect your puppy to behave like an adult dog, and I did succeed in teaching my dogs walking like a feather on a loose leash. You are free to think I am a bad trainer when you read that I only now started teaching Anton the 'heel' position, and he's almost 19 months old. But he wasn't ready before and I don't care that other dogs were heeling since they were 6 months old. The last thing I want was an obedient puppy with broken spirit. So I won't give any advice here, I will just share my experience.

How did I teach not pulling on the leash? Yana - prong collar, everything else failed, but I didn't use the prong as a self correcting device but as a training tool; Anton - stopping and changing directions. Since I prefer voice commands to relying on leash pops when walking I taught the dogs the commands 'let's go', 'go ahead', 'with me', 'slow' and 'turn around' if 'slow' wasn't done, 'wait', and 'leave it', and I use all of them on my every walk. I did not expect an automatic sit, just stopping and waiting would do, and I didn't expect perfect heeling.

Also I allowed my dogs to pull when the leash was clipped to a harness, I didn't take away that joy of pulling, I just set the rules that would work for both of us. Hopefully I will get the scooter next month so the pulling will be encouraged even more!


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07You have excellent advice given by everybody. I will too join those who believe you expect your puppy to behave like an adult dog, and I did succeed in teaching my dogs walking like a feather on a loose leash. You are free to think I am a bad trainer when you read that I only now started teaching Anton the 'heel' position, and he's almost 19 months old. But he wasn't ready before and I don't care that other dogs were heeling since they were 6 months old. The last thing I want was an obedient puppy with broken spirit. So I won't give any advice here, I will just share my experience.


I don't think you're a bad trainer








I agree with you 100%!
Your dog will show you when he's ready to start heel training. Most puppies are NOT ready for that kind of focus. Denali most definitely does not have the attention span and I'm not going to set her up for failure by trying to force her to heel. 
Although I have been shortening the leash for a few seconds at a time so that she walks by me, when she does -I say "Good girl! OK!" and let her sniff.

She can only "Watch me" and give me eye contact for a total of 1 second when we're outside LOL. When that increases to about 30, I'll know she's ready to start *easy* heel training


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

My advice would be to get a Gentle Leader HARNESS - or one of the other harnesses that have the ring for the leash on the strap that goes across the chest.

Part of your frustration is that you can't get him to not pull, so it's very hard to find a time when you can reward him for not pulling (which is an excellent way to teach loose leash walking, but FIRST the pup has to not pull!). Using a training tool like the front-clip harnesses will help your pup not pull so you can have more opportunity to reward him for behaviors you like (loose leash).

He is just a baby, and he probably needs more exercise than the walks can give him. Maybe he already gets that - and if so, I would try to do your walking AFTER he exercises so the edge of his energy is gone. If you don't already have a long line (mine are webbing, 15-30+ feet long), this can be a great way to exercise a pup. Throw toys back and forth so he runs past you chasing toys (I take a handful of toys so there's always one I can grab), toss treats so he has to go chase the treat, etc. After doing this for half an hour or so, put on the front-clip harness and leash and try the walking on a loose leash exercise again.

He IS just a baby, and I wouldn't worry about teaching him a formal heel. A lot of us do train "heel" early, but we're mostly competition folk and we do it in a really happy, fun way. The videos you see are tiny blips in time in the life of a puppy. My pups tend to be able to do short, attentive heeling patterns at 4-5 months of age, but they're not doing that when we're out walking on leash! Walking on leash is a different exercise. Asking for attentive heeling takes a lot out of a young dog, and no young dog can be expected to do that for the length of a normal walk (nor should they, in my opinion).

So - if you can, get one of those harnesses and give that a try. He will attempt to pull, the harness will make him go sideways (as it's designed to do) and make him somewhat off-balance, and most dogs don't like that and so they don't pull as much. And then you can praise and give treats as long as the leash is not tight. Once his mind understands that the praise and treats are associated with walking nicely on leash, he should start offering that behavior more and more. And then eventually you should be able to go to a regular flat collar again.

One last piece of advice: one of the most difficult things for trainers is maintaining patience with our dogs. We get frustrated easily, and the dogs don't understand our frustration. I've had to work VERY HARD on my patience level, and now I can stand quietly and watch my dog act like an idiot until she finally does something I can mark and reward. For a long time I tried to control EVERY thing my dogs did, and now I find that I end up with a better dog and a better relationship if I allow some freedoms and wait and watch until I see behaviors I like - and then I give an immediate "YESS!" and a reward. My dogs aren't stupid. They learn pretty quickly what earns them praise and reward .. *L* .. and then they train ME to reward them when they do those behaviors! (Well, at least it sometimes feels that way). And every dog is an individual .. some dogs thrive on pleasing their owners, and try to do everything they can to make their owners happy .. other dogs are much more independent (I prefer that word over "stubborn" .. *L*) and those dogs often turn out to be the NEATEST, smartest, most capable dogs of all. I like a dog that thinks for itself and doesn't rely on my every command. And to have a dog like that means that I have to have some give and take in my training program.

Good luck, and try not to get too frustrated. OH - one more suggestion - until you get some training into him, don't walk him with your daughters. Having that many people around is going to confuse a pup in training and make it much more difficult for you to get him to respond. In a way, it's setting him up to fail and that really works against you. I would do the walks one-on-one until he's responding well, and then add in the girls for very short periods of time (a minute or two initially). Expect him to do worse at first when the girls are there, as the distraction will throw him off some. And it's probably more frustrating for you to have him weaving around you AND the girls, so it's harder for you to keep the training calm and patient.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

Tecnhostorm -- it is apparent that you are frustrated about this, that all these things "just aren't working!" and I would echo what other(s) have said which is that this energy is working against you when you are training.

One of the most important things my dogs have taught me is to be patient, to forget about the past, and live in the now. I hope it doesn't sound too trite. But forget about perfection, how well he does, how other dogs do, all the things you've tried, how hard it is. All that has weighed you down. But forget about it, it really is no big deal. I might suggest some quiet relaxation time for you before training.

There are MANY methods that will work to get a dog walking nicely beside you, but ALL of them require that you are an objective, calm headed trainer who is there to help the dog understand what you want from it. You already have everything it takes to train him successfully.

As for the technique that worked for me (you've probably already done it): hold a tasty treat, have the dog walk along side you and reward it when it does that. Have it on a leash so it can't leave the scene. If it moves forward too far, give your gameshow "wrong" buzzer and encourage it to come back to your side.

A prong collar can work to remind the dog that it's unpleasant for him to leave your side *once it knows what it's being told to do*, but again that is not the tool or technique to use unless you are (and stay) relaxed, and in my opinion does not need to be used when first teaching the heel.

Melanie's advice about walking him without your daughters is also right on. I can tell you that even when my puppy was heeling great with no distractions, add a distraction (little kids are a HUGE distraction in my experience) and suddenly you need to retrain the heel. In fact, we are still working on it around cats and other critters.

Edit: I would also suggest finding one tried & true method of training the loose leash walk (again, many methods can work), and sticking with it, it is in effect teaching your dog the "game" of getting what he wants. But to keep changing the game if "it's not working" is not going to help progress. Keep it simple and relax. Good luck.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: IliamnasQuestMy advice would be to get a Gentle Leader HARNESS - or one of the other harnesses that have the ring for the leash on the strap that goes across the chest.
> 
> Part of your frustration is that you can't get him to not pull, so it's very hard to find a time when you can reward him for not pulling (which is an excellent way to teach loose leash walking, but FIRST the pup has to not pull!). Using a training tool like the front-clip harnesses will help your pup not pull so you can have more opportunity to reward him for behaviors you like (loose leash).


I had the same problem with Dena, and the Sense-ation Harness worked great. Inside the house she was perfect, both on and off leash. Outside the house I ceased to exist for her and was getting almost no rewardable behavior, no matter how patient I was. It was just too big a leap for her to go from zero distractions in the house to the big wide world in the great outdoors. The front hook harness seemed to make her more aware of me at the other end of the leash, so I was able to get some behavior to reward. Also, our trainer suggested working with her near the open front door INSIDE the house first, then progressing to just outside the door before trying to work with her out on the sidewalk. That helped a lot too, we gradually worked up to being able to walk down the street.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Totally agree with Melanie and Ucdcrush about the kids, I missed that part of the original post. Puppy training time is puppy training time, and kid time is kid time. Nothing wrong with having the kids help train the puppy, but if you're taking the puppy out to work on leash skills the kids are going to be a big distraction for the puppy, and your attention will also be divided between the dog and the kids. Training really takes a lot of one on one focus to succeed - if you want your puppy's full attention, he needs yours too. 

It's often stated that in order to walk more than one dog nicely together on leash you need to have both dogs perfect on leash separately, before you even attempt to walk them together. I'd say the same thing applies to kids and dogs. So maybe start working with him at a time when the kids can stay home. If that means you aren't able to take him out twice a day or even every single day, so be it.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Just work on bonding and recall. Believe me - those two things will pay off a whole lot more down the road than getting a pup walking nicely on lead now. I learned this the hard way with my first dog. His leash manner is perfect (because we did a lot of ob training with him on leash) but his recall sucks and if he is ever off leash, he acts like a prisoner who has just been handed the key to his cell!!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Jason, I'm the opposite - I take mine out for walks at off leash parks every weekend from a young age, and do a LOT of work on recalls around the house from day one. I also do almost all my training at home off leash. But I tend to not put nearly the time and effort in leash skills, a mistake I'm trying to not make with Halo. I think a balance of the two is best - they are both important.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

I agree. When I first got Obie, I took him to a lot of obedience classes where the emphasis was on teaching him to be a good pet (loose leash, not jumping on people, sit/down/stay, not barking, etc) and walked him a ton and sure enough he got so good at that stuff that he passed his CGC when he was 8 months old. But I didn't do a lot of play and bonding exercises with him - at least not deliberately - and it definitely shows whenever he is off leash now! And it doesn't help that he is 12 months old and is knee deep in his teenage/bratty/"I know everything already!" stage. Painful









I'm getting a do-over in November and I'll definitely be doing more off leash work with the pup this time around.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree with you both.
Karlo has had little in the way of formal obedience(we did one beginning ob class) and I only put a leash on him off the property. But he at almost 6 mos has great recall and stays right with me, because of our bond. The most important thing I wanted from him was focus and to have fun while we work together. 
When I do walk him on leash he does not pull. I used a harness(started out with one that clips on the back, not front) and now use a flat or fursaver collar. Though I am having a problem with the stay. He won't do it, pops up everytime I move away from him. This is what I am working on now...
He will probably change as he enters his teenage/bratty"I know everything already!" stage as well!!!! But at least we know it is a phase and will pass.


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## norske (Aug 28, 2009)

Maggie, best advice I have read in a long time.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

By 12 months old, my dogs can pass a CGC and get a Rally Novice, and both require loose lead walking, rally kind of requires heeling now. Some of my dogs did it earlier than that. But they are certainly not at CD level by six months. 

I am sorry that your puppy has spent a portion of the main socialization period in a leash battle. 

My puppies generally walk ok when they are this little and then get worse. However, what I do is to have the vast majority of the walk be an exploration where the puppy can move about and do what it wants, save walking in the street, then I use my voice as much as keeping the leash short enough that they cannot go into the street. But if they are pulling in front or sniffing, or checking out something. I give them some space. If the pulling is relentless, I stop and do not move until the leash is slack. But I do not expect heeling at this point. 

When we reach a street that I intend to cross though, I have the puppy sit and wait, and then have him heel across with me. If this means not giving him much lead at all, that is what it means. When we reach the other side, I let the pup relax and sniff or forge or lag or I wait while he stops to watch a bird, etc. 

I guess my point is that with youngsters like this, I only expect him to be "in position" for a minute here and a minute there. (when we are crossing the street.)

I continue to have my dogs sit and wait at streets or parking lots up through adulthood. My older dogs may forge or lag or sniff the rest of the time, but if the leash gets tight, I command them to heel for a while. 

I think that your pup could use some exercise before the walk, mental and physical. Do you crate your pup, and how long? If you are crating at night or during the day, are you going from the crate to the walk? It may help to do some focus exersizes with your dog, at home where there are not distractions at this point. Put treats in both hands, let him know they are there. let him smell them. Put them out stretched in your arms and wait for him to look at your face, then treat. 

If kibble isn't working, up the ante. If pupparonis don't do it, try cheese or chicken. 

If you have treats in one hand and a clicker in the other, I do not know how you hold your dog. I would keep treats, but whether you use them I find it terribly distracting. When teaching, sit or down, treats are great because they move the dog into position. You can do this with come and finish, but I have a terrible time using them for heeling. I use my body language and praise for walking. I have a clicker.... somewhere.

I will never forget walking through petsmart and seeing a trainer confusing the heck out of a poor dog and its owner. She held a can of pennies in one hand and a clicker in the other and was using one then the other, and I thought no way could I walk down the street with a clicker and a can of pennies to control my dog. 

Stay positive with this baby. It takes time. Please do not get frustrated and use harsher techniques. Outsmart him. Be more interesting than what is out there. If it is too stimulating on the street for training, teach him at home in the yard. Keep the training moments short and up beat, and the play and time with the pup long and up beat.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Sadly, it looks like we may have lost the original poster Technostorm.

It's too bad when we don't agree with someone and get their point of view, that they then leave...............









Hey norske, welcome to the site you are clearly brilliant and a great addition to the forum (I'm sure I'm not only saying that cause you agree with me...........really







)


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