# Stud Services - Questions



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

** First, let me start off by saying that NO, I am not breeding Stark, nor will I EVER breed him. Reactive history, allergies and not a great working dog. **


I was thinking the other day while browsing breeders websites (I do this for fun and to see what is available in my area, research bloodlines, etc..) that had stud services to outside bitches:

As an owner of a stud, do you offer your male to anyone willing to pay your stud service AND have good practices and goals for their bitches OR do you only allow your male to breed to bitches who YOU think will be a good match?

For an example; an owner of a 3 year old bitch, schH2, breed survey, awesome dog all around contacts you about breeding to your male. You like the dog a lot, think the owner of the female is doing everything possible to prove her bitch breed worthy. You agree this female is going to bring something to the breed, etc.. The owner of the female is a legit person, you trust them, like their long term goals and think they are on the right track as far as breeding practices go, etc... 

EXCEPT

You don't like the cross between your male and her bitch. 

What would you do? Allow the breeding thinking that maybe they "see something" that you don't (even after an explanation from them), that maybe their goals are different than yours so you allow the breeding?

Or would you tell them all of the above and refuse to have your male used on this bitch?

Just curious as to what others do in this case?

I have always wondered this and just never asked.

Looking forward to everyone's opinions!

Oh, and even if you don't breed - I would love to hear your opinion as well.

_________________________________________________


My personal opinion would be that if I don't "like" the breeding then I wouldn't do it. But then again, I don't know enough yet to make that decision (which is why Stark will never be bred!).


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I have recommended against a breeding due to the combination of bloodlines. If the puppies are more likely to have problems ( HD, nerviness, etc.) then I recommend against the breeding. The other party has always then chosen to look elsewhere.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

People who have seen my pup have asked me if I would breed him. And I've said no cause...really, I'm not a breeder, I didn't get him for that purpose and I don't know how to even go about it to make sure the breed stays strong etc. Actually the breeder that I got my pup from, asked me if i would consider breeding him in a few months with one of her other female dogs. And i know she is legit and everything, I'm just wary of breeding him, nothing against her, just I'm not secure in it.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

One word. Brucellosis.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> One word. Brucellosis.


exactly.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm one of those people that believes it's a free country so I'm not here to police who is breeding what and why. I would let someone use my male as a stud as long as they meet my criteria: negative bruc. test before the breeding (like, right before the breeding, not 2 years ago before the female was bred to goodness-knows who else), hip/elbow eval doesn't have to be official but showing the dog is normal/clear, some form of training, work, or titling. I'm so freaking picky about what dogs I will own or buy I doubt I'd *ever* OK a breeding if I went based on pedigrees/pairs that *I* personally like. I tend to place the responsibility of breeding on the owner of the dam. If they want to use my dog I assume they've done their research and have their reasons. I've had a few propositions for Nikon but these were all weird people that didn't even know what a bruc. test was, lol. I highly doubt anyone actually using either of my current dogs for stud. Show line breeders want VA studs and working line breeders probably want a different pedigree than Pan (he has a great "end user" pedigree but not a great pedigree for breeding).


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I have this mentality that I don't want to breed something I wouldn't want to own.. lol.. and I am getting pickier and pickier as I learn more... lol.

*I of course, meant that everything checked out in the health and temperament department as well, etc.. basically everything is in place and you are just not a fan of the cross.

Now, let's flip this, what if you LIKE the cross, everything is in place BUT you do not like the particular bitch? Nothing "wrong" with her, just not your type of dog.. would you still do the breeding?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would allow it, as long as I'm not being compensated with a puppy, lol. I used to feel the same way about never breeding something I wouldn't want to own but after even a short time in the breed I just don't really care anymore. If people don't meet my (pretty minimum) criteria I'm happy to explain why I have those criteria and maybe it's a learning moment but beyond that, I'm not out to convince anyone what to breed or what not to breed. Now, if *I'm* the one doing the breeding (owning the female), then the only reason I *will* breed is to produce a dog for me to own.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I guess I look at it kinda the same with a female and a male - I *am* doing the breeding no matter which dog I bring into it?

I am still bringing pups into this world with my name attached to them in some way?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think it's totally up to the individual, their level of involvement. I look at the reverse...if I were owning and breeding a female, I wouldn't really give the stud owner any control other than meeting whatever requirements they had for using the stud and paying or giving them their puppy. If the stud owner wanted more control over my female/my breeding...I'd probably keep looking (unless it was someone I know and we were planning the breeding together).


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

I personally won't breed to anything that I wouldn't want a puppy from. It is just my personal preference. He is my dog and it is my choice. 

I also will refuse a breeding if I don't like the breeder, the pedigree or the bitch herself. But I am not wanting to put a lot of puppies out there from my dog. He is almost 5 years old and has been bred once. 

I was just approached recently by a breeder that wants to use my dog. I researched the pedigrees,talked to her(she has been in the GSD breed a LONG time) and finally approved the breeding. I am a very picky person and don't want my dog just being bred willy nilly, I feel if I wouldn't keep something from the litter, then there is no reason in my mind to do the breeding!


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

VonKromeHaus said:


> *I personally won't breed to anything that I wouldn't want a puppy from. It is just my personal preference. He is my dog and it is my choice. *
> 
> I also will refuse a breeding if I don't like the breeder, the pedigree or the bitch herself. But* I am not wanting to put a lot of puppies out there from my dog*. He is almost 5 years old and has been bred once.
> 
> I was just approached recently by a breeder that wants to use my dog. I researched the pedigrees,talked to her(she has been in the GSD breed a LONG time) and finally approved the breeding. I am a very picky person and don't want my dog just being bred willy nilly, *I feel if I wouldn't keep something from the litter, then there is no reason in my mind to do the breeding*!


This is my train of thought as well.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I wouldn't allow a breeding with any bitch I don't see as a good match... my stud would be carrying my name, my breeding legacy... I would be very careful how his genes are passed on. Responsibility should be on both ends of breeders, both should agree the pair is a good match that will benefit the breed. That's what I think.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I would let someone breed to my dog that was active in the breed with a nice female that they competed with and fully health tested, I wouldn't breed to a pet family just producing pet puppies, but someone competing and showing their dog tells me they are serious about their dog and believe in her, I would be flattered they thought that much of my dog, I certainly wouldn't be rude or offended. I remember when I was looking to breed my mare years ago, I had a mare that was not Arabian, but I thought she would cross perfectly with this gorgeous National Champion stallion, people told me no way they would breed to my mare, I was so afraid of being turned down by them that I wrote them a letter so I wouldn't be turned down to my face or over the phone ( this was before e-mail , 1994 to be exact, I made a list of all her accomplishments etc.. I was thrilled when they called me and told me they were honored I thought that highly of their stud, as luck would have it, my half-breed was the most successful show horse produced by that stallion.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I have never owned a big-name stud dog--so far all my boy dogs have been HOT. And I've never had an outside "stud" to one of my dogs. It doesn't come along all that often even with a very nice dog, Sch titled, OFA'd, good bloodlines, national champion.... 

I think you have to make the decision on a case-by-case basis, evaluating the female, her health, accomplishments, pedigree, phenotype, how well she matches, the reputability and "quality" of the owner/breeder who will whelp and place the pups.

Some of these are "instant" decisions that you know whether immediately whether it's OK (xrayed or not, for example). Some of these may take a conversation with the female's owner. In general, that person is interested in your dog because they want to breed good puppies and you're the one who knows your dog best. In general, when I am inquiring about a stud dog, I email for more info, describe my female, describe what I am looking for, and ask whether the stud owner thinks it's a match.

This process is usually a dialogue on both sides, and I think that's the best way for it to be.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

It would depend on what I didn't like about the match. If there were concerns with temperament, nerve, health or other true problems with the match then I would turn down the breeding. If it was that the breeding wasn't geared to produce something that I might want, but did fit well with the goals of the breeder, and it's only a matter of differences in preferences not anything "wrong", then I'd probably go ahead with it.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

This is fascinating Elizabeth, thanks for bringing it up! It's interesting to see different peoples' opinions.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Definitely a dialogue between. And there are a few of us on this board that talk to each other about the different combos and males that we are looking at (we have females, as well). To me, that is important. Good feedback and conversation about dogs to use, good and constructive. What have people seen, what the dog is producing or what possible combos these dogs might and might not produce, based on pedigrees. 

Some of our breedings have been and will be a year out. Knowing what you are looking for, seeing what the studs are producing in not only working ability, but nerve, faults, back issues, allergies, etc….Talking to unbiased people that work, compete, catch dogs that will give honest feedback and are not stuck on one line.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Great advice Sue!

I find 'this world' fascinating.


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## Ramage (Oct 10, 2009)

In the end, the stud dog owner is just as responsible for the pups being produced and the stud dog/owner has their reputation on the line.

If the puppies come out cruddy, people are going to look at the stud dog and wonder which of the cruddy genetics he passed on. At least, that is what many people will think and wonder - not many would get beyond that.

So, no, if I thought it was a bad match I would not allow the breeding. As a breeder, the goal is to produce the best puppies possible to improve the breed. Allowing a bad match goes against that goal.


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## Oskar der Drachen (Oct 28, 2011)

OK, here's a question.

I started out in having no interest in offering Bear as a stud. Since then after being to a show, and having several compliments and one inquiry on whether or not I was going to offer him as a stud, I am wondering.

If you were me, and I was thinking about offering Bear as a stud, what should I be thinking about? 

How old should he be? I was going to get hips and elbows scored in any case, when is the optimum time for that? A year, two years old?

Curious!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

you might want to start your own thread asking this, or just do a search through the forums. here are a couple basics -

hips/elbows at 2 years old
some type of title - conformation, working, something
health testing appropriate to a GSD


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