# MY GSDs DESCENDED FROM STRONGHEART'S MOTHER!!!!!



## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

I don't know why but lately I've been obsessed with my Rocky and Jessie Jane's pedigree. So I went on the pedigreedatabase.com and took my two goofballs pedigree and kept going back and back, I reached dead ends on a lot of them but for their great grandmother, I was able to go back and back seemingly without end and so I randomly was picking one to keep going back from because I was sure Firefox was going to crash with all the windows I had open and then I saw it!

Charlotte von Oeringen! Strongheart's mother! 

Here's going back from Rocky and Jessie's:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/5/465614.html

and here's Strongheart's pedigree:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/470918.html

Woohoo!!!!! 

Of course probably everyone on this forum can trace their dogs back to Strongheart somehow but still, I thought it was pretty cool!!!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

CONGRATULATIONS - that's really neat that you found it!!! I read LETTERS TO STRONGHEART many years ago - he was an awesome dog!!!


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

It is fun to research pedigrees!

In going through some old papers my parents had last week I found the pedigree of my very first GSD. My parents gave him to me when I was a very troubled 14 year old and he gave me a life long love of GSD's. Part of the contract my father signed with the breeder was that I had to show him in puppy conformation during the first year. I did this twice and both tmes he not only placed but beat out his litter mate, who the breeder had kept back! I gave up showing him because we both thought it was boring, He lived to be 14 and was a great dog, a real representative of the description of the breed standard. One day my mother accidentally let him out and he came straight to my high school ( about a mile down the road) and found me!
I remember once when a boy got too close to me in the back yard and King came at him out of nowhere, The guy jumped into the unheated pool in the dad of winter! King did like my future husband though and we have been married 32 years.

This is a link to Kings father. Does anyone know anything about this line, if it still exists? I would love to get a pup from that line.


http://gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/fdogs/FalkoCellar.html


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## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

Debbie - if you google his name you'll find some of his progeny, here's one place that has him listed:
http://www.dreamweavershepherds.com/

I'm so excited, I just went out and got Jessie Jane all worked up. She doesn't know what is so exciting but I kept hugging her and she started binkying like a bunny! Rocky just sat there looking proud as usual. He's like "No Strongheart's mother is related to ME and I'm so handsome who cares!"

Another interesting name that came up only eight generations back was this one:

Vixen von Rin Tin
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/614988.html

but it's a dead end, could this be what it looks like? Don't we have one of the Rinty folks on here?












(and yeah buddy, Strongheart was one cool dude, if you ever get the chance to read Kinship With All Life by J. Allen Boone, don't miss it!)


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

That is patience!


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Wow! Isn't it fantastic when you find a bloodline link like that? I am becoming obsessed with bloodlines a little myself. I wish I knew more.
Sheilah


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## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

Yes it was totally cool beyond words considering I wanted GSDs because Strongheart and his famed abilities and haphazardly end up with two descended from the same mother! 

But NOW I am really intrigued by this female ancestor, only eight generations back:

Vixen von Rin Tin
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/614988.html

I was hoping the person on here from Rinty's kennels might pop in and give me a hint on finding out about her and if this could be a Rinty relative.

It is also so neat to see all the photographs of my dogs ancestors too!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Vixen Von Rin Tin is missing the second "Tin" that you'd normally expect to see in the registered names of RTT dogs. I sent you a PM with Daphne Hereford's email addy, I'm sure she can give you a definite answer. 

Snow Cloud, Strobel and Hayes are old WGSD kennel names. I looked at Conjo White Snow Cloud which appears on Vixen's pedigree and see a lot of familiar names like Keeno Snowboy and Strobel's Chief von Hayes - WGSDs from the 50's.


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## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ArycrestVixen Von Rin Tin is missing the second "Tin" that you'd normally expect to see in the registered names of RTT dogs. I sent you a PM with Daphne Hereford's email addy, I'm sure she can give you a definite answer.
> 
> Snow Cloud, Strobel and Hayes are old WGSD kennel names. I looked at Conjo White Snow Cloud which appears on Vixen's pedigree and see a lot of familiar names like Keeno Snowboy and Strobel's Chief von Hayes - WGSDs from the 50's.


Thanks for looking at this! I did find one dog definitely from that line with the second "tin" left out 

Lookouts White von Rin Tin
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/progeny/488850.html

and so thought maybe since they're both whites, who knows? But I will definitely email Ms. Hereford, thank you! Wouldn't that be something else? RTT & Strongheart? Woohoo!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Here's another link for that Lookouts White von Rin Tin:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/488858.html

And you're 100% right - definitely RTT lines!!!

If I recall correctly, Daphne told me that Lee Duncan used WGSDs in the RTT lines to keep the color associated with RTT IV consistent and Daphne has done the same thing since she took over breeding them. In fact my RTTs Niki was white.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

This is really interesting. I asked questions about my childhood dog on the PD database and got this info. At some point your dog amd my King may have been related!


I’m pretty sure you are aware of the fact that in his lineage your dog goes way back to “Pfeffer von Bern”, who was a Conformation “Sieger” in 1937 in Germany. Pfeffer left shortly afterwards to become “Grand Victor” in the USA, and even twice in a row: 1937/1938.

What might be of interest and new to you, is the fact that the sire of Pfeffer was “Dachs von Bern”.
And Dachs was also the sire of “Odin vom Busecker Schloss” (vom Busecker Schloss being a renowned kennel).
Now Odin sired another dog named Tasso of Villa Marina.

And this Tasso has sired a dog who became quite famous, namely "Rin Tin Tin 2".
Take note that we are NOT talking about the first Rin Tin Tin, and that Rin Tin Tin 2 was NOT a son of the original (people get confused sometimes).

Nevertheless will most Americans of that era know this particular German Shepherd Dog (Rin Tin Tin 2) from the series:
"The Adventures of Rin Tin Tin" that were broadcasted from 1954 to 1959.

So basically your dog King sits pretty close to Rin Tin Tin 2, bloodwise I mean.
Hope this helps!
Your dog Rin Tin Tin 2
different generations inbetween Tasso of Villa Marina
Pfeffer von Bern Odin vom Busecker Schloss
Dachs von Bern

Your dog is also related to another very famous dog, through Tassoof Villa Marina: Bullet's Pride of Encino, which was the dog that appeared with Roy Rogers in many movies!

Pedigree: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/531814.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/403415.html

This is the pedigree for Falko. You can click on the 7gen ped and see all the really old dogs in there. Good Luck in your search.


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## GSDGenes (Mar 9, 2006)

If you look here, 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/progeny/26644.html

you will see there were a number of progeny from Charlotte, including four litters of Charlotte x Nores Kriminalpolizei.

Now if you look at Nores' pedigree:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/2021.html

and his progeny list:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/progeny/2021.html 
you will find that Nores is behind most modern day GSDs.

As for Dreamweaver's Heiniken, he was a son of the black Ch Caralon's Jedi v Brookswood. Heiniken had solid black litter brother, Dreamweaver's Henry Weinhard, who was featured in a German Shepherd Quarterly article on herding.


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## GSDGenes (Mar 9, 2006)

"this Tasso has sired a dog who became quite famous, namely "Rin Tin Tin 2".
Take note that we are NOT talking about the first Rin Tin Tin, and that Rin Tin Tin 2 was NOT a son of the original (people get confused sometimes)."

The original RTT was an unregistered dog. 
RTT2 was a different dog altogether, out of registered parents and good bloodlines of that time period. 

Tasso of Villa Marina was a ROM (GSDCA Register of Merit) sire.
http://gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/tdogs/TassoVillaMarina.htm

This is a progeny list on the database for Tasso, but with an erroneous kennel name spelling.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/progeny/402128.html

Bullets Pride of Encino was also out of well known dogs and lines of his time period.


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