# Dominant dog collar



## SuperG

I recently witnessed a demonstration of the use of a dominant dog collar on a dog reactive/aggressive dog and was curious if anyone in here has used this tool for this specific purpose and what their experience was regarding the efficacy of this particular collar.....and if you care to elaborate, the method in which it was used.

Thanks,

SuperG


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## ZiggytheSheprador

i'm interested in this as well. but what's difference between this and a choke chain? seems like its a nylon version of the choke chain. i'd be interested in purchasing one too if someone can help distinguish the benefits.


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## SuperG

ZiggytheSheprador said:


> i'm interested in this as well. but what's difference between this and a choke chain? seems like its a nylon version of the choke chain. i'd be interested in purchasing one too if someone can help distinguish the benefits.


From what I gathered.....the DD collar is much more of a focused effect vs a chain....very little pressure is required on behalf of the human or the dog to produce the consequence.

I'll wait for others more knowledgeable to answer your question better than I have.


SuperG


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## Chip18

LOL ... I had said to someone that nope not gonna bring up a "DDC" to "folks" that are having a cow over a freaking "Bonker! But if I were to it would have gone something like this:

*I have seen, Sean O'Shea, this guy: 

Los Angeles Dog Trainer - Dog Aggression Training - Dog Behavior Modification

Lately walking dogs and he has two leashes?? On one leash a "Prong Collar" and on the other (a short traffic leash) attached to a DDC?? I knew something was up as it was a recent change?? Well, he must have found that a lot of his clients were struggling with "Prong Collar Corrections!" 

So he just changed it up and used a new tool for corrections ... a DDC. When he stops and the dog starts to act a fool, he just applies gentle upward pressure on the DDC to just lift the dogs front feet and the dog shuts up. He doesn't say a word and the dog gets the message.
*
*He explains it in here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR_tfAVvFdA

I was stunned as I realized I could do the same thing with a SLL never had the need but I could. 
*


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## NancyJ

Nylon choke collars of that design have been around for many years. I had one with my first GSD in 1985 before I ever heard of a prong collar. That is what the trainer used. Nylon gave a crisper cleaner correction (if it was properly sized) than the old chain that went over the head. 

Frawley came up with a new marketing approach.


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## SuperG

Chip18 said:


> *
> 
> When he stops and the dog starts to act a fool, he just applies gentle upward pressure on the DDC to just lift the dogs front feet and the dog shuts up. He doesn't say a word and the dog gets the message.
> *
> *
> *



This is what I witnessed.....nary a word and minimal pressure.....don't even know if the dog's front paws left the ground.


SuperG


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## Chip18

SuperG said:


> This is what I witnessed.....nary a word and minimal pressure.....don't even know if the dog's front paws left the ground.
> 
> 
> SuperG


As Sean, said "just barely" would look exactly like what you saw, at a distance but the essence is still the same, light gentle upward pressure and the dog gets the "message." 

Where did you see this???

I have seen clips of him walking dogs and noticed a change in the "number of tools" he was using?? As I usually listen to his Q&A Saturdays I figured sooner or later he would get around to explaining and he did.

Most likely he found clients "struggling with proper "Prong Collar" corrections and added a tool, that he felt he could get his less skilled clients to use properly??


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## MineAreWorkingline

Chip18 said:


> LOL ... I had said to someone that nope not gonna bring up a "DDC" to "folks" that are having a cow over a freaking "Bonker!
> 
> Well, he must have found that a lot of his clients were struggling with "Prong Collar Corrections!"
> 
> So he just changed it up and used a new tool for corrections ... a DDC. When he stops and the dog starts to act a fool, he just applies gentle upward pressure on the DDC to just lift the dogs front feet and the dog shuts up. He doesn't say a word and the dog gets the message.
> 
> I was stunned as I realized I could do the same thing with a SLL never had the need but I could.


Every time I read about people struggling to put prongs on and yanking and cranking their dogs till the sun goes down in lieu of training the dog, or themselves learning how to properly use it to accomplish their means, I think of the DDC. Like you, I just keep my mouth shut because you know you can't say nothin' bad about their prong collars. 



jocoyn said:


> Nylon choke collars of that design have been around for many years. I had one with my first GSD in 1985 before I ever heard of a prong collar. That is what the trainer used. Nylon gave a crisper cleaner correction (if it was properly sized) than the old chain that went over the head.
> 
> Frawley came up with a new marketing approach.


The difference is that the DDC is fitted right up under the ears like a prong, and it has a clasp which connects to a dead ring making putting it on and removing it a walk in the park. No struggling, no strength necessary.


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## mycobraracr

I have and use dominate collars. How I use them changes for every dog. I'm currently working an aggression case where the first session I put one on the dog. The reason is the dog the second in came out of the tuck went crazy trying to bite. The dog drug the handler around on a choke chain. The handler was "popping" the choke. That doesn't "correct" the dog, it just amps it up to bring out more aggression. The dominate allows the handler to control the dog, stay calm and get the dog into a calmer state of mind that we can work with. The important part is to remember that it doesn't "fix" the behavior, it just squelches it. It helps to keep things calm so I can work with the handler on the real issue without the dog trying to eat everything in sight.


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## MineAreWorkingline

mycobraracr said:


> I have and use dominate collars. How I use them changes for every dog. I'm currently working an aggression case where the first session I put one on the dog. The reason is the dog the second in came out of the tuck went crazy trying to bite. The dog drug the handler around on a choke chain. The handler was "popping" the choke. That doesn't "correct" the dog, it just amps it up to bring out more aggression. The dominate allows the handler to control the dog, stay calm and get the dog into a calmer state of mind that we can work with. The important part is to remember that it doesn't "fix" the behavior, it just squelches it. It helps to keep things calm so I can work with the handler on the real issue without the dog trying to eat everything in sight.


:thumbup:

Yes, it calms the dog so you can train it.


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## NancyJ

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Every time I read about people struggling to put prongs on and yanking and cranking their dogs till the sun goes down in lieu of training the dog, or themselves learning how to properly use it to accomplish their means, I think of the DDC. Like you, I just keep my mouth shut because you know you can't say nothin' bad about their prong collars.
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that the DDC is fitted right up under the ears like a prong, and it has a clasp which connects to a dead ring making putting it on and removing it a walk in the park. No struggling, no strength necessary.


Yes but that design was out there in the 80s as a training collar - nylon collar with dead ring so you could have minimal slack and fit up high and give the standard corrections people used to give... I think Frawley publicized this particular use but it was out there....


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## SuperG

Chip18 said:


> As Sean, said "just barely" would look exactly like what you saw, at a distance but the essence is still the same, light gentle upward pressure and the dog gets the "message."
> 
> Where did you see this???
> 
> I have seen clips of him walking dogs and noticed a change in the "number of tools" he was using?? As I usually listen to his Q&A Saturdays I figured sooner or later he would get around to explaining and he did.
> 
> Most likely he found clients "struggling with proper "Prong Collar" corrections and added a tool, that he felt he could get his less skilled clients to use properly??


I saw this used by an individual who seemed to appreciate that the use of a DD collar has different impact versus a prong collar mostly because the source of the correction is not associated to the human or any verbal commands issued which the dog disobeys...more along the lines of an environmental consequence of the dog's behavior. The correction is brought about by the action of the dog not because of a failure of the dog to comply to a handler's command and then the resulting correction.

I would disagree with the notion that use of the DD collar in the situation I observed was due to a client "struggling with proper "Prong Collar" corrections" As it was described to me by the individual....two different collars for different uses and a DD collar is very limited for very specific behavior modifications whereas a prong collar has a much broader range of use for numerous corrections. Basically, a DD collar is targeted primarily towards dogs which exhibit aggression whether it be dog on dog ( other animals ) or dog on human.

SuperG


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## MineAreWorkingline

SuperG said:


> I saw this used by an individual who seemed to appreciate that the use of a DD collar has different impact versus a prong collar mostly because the source of the correction is not associated to the human or any verbal commands issued which the dog disobeys...more along the lines of an environmental consequence of the dog's behavior. The correction is brought about by the action of the dog not because of a failure of the dog to comply to a handler's command and then the resulting correction.
> 
> I would disagree with the notion that use of the DD collar in the situation I observed was due to a client "struggling with proper "Prong Collar" corrections" As it was described to me by the individual....two different collars for different uses and a DD collar is very limited for very specific behavior modifications whereas a prong collar has a much broader range of use for numerous corrections. *Basically, a DD collar is targeted primarily towards dogs which exhibit aggression whether it be dog on dog ( other animals ) or dog on human.
> *
> SuperG


I used it on a red zone 95# dog reactive dog. It worked like a charm.


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## GypsyGhost

SuperG said:


> I saw this used by an individual who seemed to appreciate that the use of a DD collar has different impact versus a prong collar mostly because the source of the correction is not associated to the human or any verbal commands issued which the dog disobeys...more along the lines of an environmental consequence of the dog's behavior. The correction is brought about by the action of the dog not because of a failure of the dog to comply to a handler's command and then the resulting correction.
> 
> I would disagree with the notion that use of the DD collar in the situation I observed was due to a client "struggling with proper "Prong Collar" corrections" As it was described to me by the individual....two different collars for different uses and a DD collar is very limited for very specific behavior modifications whereas a prong collar has a much broader range of use for numerous corrections. Basically, a DD collar is targeted primarily towards dogs which exhibit aggression whether it be dog on dog ( other animals ) or dog on human.
> 
> SuperG


This is exactly how we've used it for our dog who exhibits leash aggression/overexcitability toward dogs. Didn't want to potentially amp him up with the prong collar. Worked wonders.


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## ZiggytheSheprador

ok ill give it a try.


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## ZiggytheSheprador

so how do i determine if the prong collar amps my pup and that making the switch is the correct choice?


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## MineAreWorkingline

ZiggytheSheprador said:


> so how do i determine if the prong collar amps my pup and that making the switch is the correct choice?


How old is your dog and why are you using a prong collar on him?


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## mycobraracr

ZiggytheSheprador said:


> so how do i determine if the prong collar amps my pup and that making the switch is the correct choice?





You get with an experienced trainer who can help you. All these different collars are nothing more than tools. Without understanding go to use them, they are dangerous. They can easily make the problem worse not better.


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## ZiggytheSheprador

he's 11 months now. i use a prong to train him during our walks and prevent him from dashing away. sometimes i use it to correct bad manners at home


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## Chip18

SuperG said:


> I saw this used by an individual who seemed to appreciate that the use of a DD collar has different impact versus a prong collar mostly because the source of the correction is not associated to the human or any verbal commands issued which the dog disobeys...more along the lines of an environmental consequence of the dog's behavior. The correction is brought about by the action of the dog not because of a failure of the dog to comply to a handler's command and then the resulting correction.


 No disagreement except a minor footnote, and I like the assessment, nice insight but ... I can do the exact same thing with a properly positioned Slip Lead Leash or a (jump rope) and the not connected to a human, or any verbal command ... that's called "keep your mouth shut."  



SuperG said:


> I would disagree with the notion that use of the DD collar
> in the situation I observed was due to a client "struggling with proper "Prong Collar" corrections"


LOL, I'm hardly in a position to contradict what you "observed" now am I? I wrote "that" way before you posted this thread. 

And my assessment was from my conclusions from following Sean's work and noting the change in the tools he was teaching his clients to use. He explains, in the link I posted. And it had nothing to do with aggression. The dog in that case, was simply a dog being an AHole. He does not use the "Prong Collar" which the dog also has on for corrections. 

But yeah I'm often that guy so don't sweat it. I heard from no less than Jeff Gellman that you can't correct a dog with a SLL ... is that so??? 

He said a SLL is not an easy tool to use and he gives big props that those that do. So I'm good. 

No disagreement here.


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## GypsyGhost

ZiggytheSheprador said:


> he's 11 months now. i use a prong to train him during our walks and prevent him from dashing away. sometimes i use it to correct bad manners at home


Do you have a trainer? If not, I would find one that is familiar with GSDs and have them assess what tools would work for your dog. Then, they can teach you to use said tools in a way that won't cause more problems.


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## Chip18

ZiggytheSheprador said:


> so how do i determine if the prong collar amps my pup and that making the switch is the correct choice?


 A better option for you might be a SLL sigh yes I know .. but have a look here:
Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

And for "corrections" use a "Pet Convinvcer" :
See the last two links here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7400865-post6.html

Interpretation free method of correction. 

And for more puppy stuff see here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/DogerciseLA/playlists


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## Muskeg

You can get a "dominant dog" leash for free at most vet offices. A good tool to know how to use, but not a new one.


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## Hector3

mycobraracr said:


> You get with an experienced trainer who can help you. All these different collars are nothing more than tools. Without understanding go to use them, they are dangerous. They can easily make the problem worse not better.


thumbs up


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## ZiggytheSheprador

I do, that's how we've graduated from a choke to a prong. It's been a few months on the prong and it kind of feels like we have hit a plateau with training so I Just thought I'd switch up me training tools so to speak. I love the prong it gets immediate results. He will react to the prong when another dog is approaching so I think it makes sense to find a "lesser" tool.


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## Chip18

Muskeg said:


> You can get a "dominant dog" leash for free at most vet offices. A good tool to know how to use, but not a new one.


LOL the nylon leash??


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## GypsyGhost

ZiggytheSheprador said:


> I do, that's how we've graduated from a choke to a prong. It's been a few months on the prong and it kind of feels like we have hit a plateau with training so I Just thought I'd switch up me training tools so to speak. I love the prong it gets immediate results. He will react to the prong when another dog is approaching so I think it makes sense to find a "lesser" tool.


I would ask your trainer if they think a slip lead/dominant dog collar would be helpful. If they think it would help, they will be able to show you exactly how to use it. I can't say that it would necessarily be helpful for regular training, but for dog aggression/leash reactivity, it works great. My trainer said that it gives the dog a minute to think about making better choices and I couldn't agree more.


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## Chip18

GypsyGhost said:


> I would ask your trainer if they think a slip lead/dominant dog collar would be helpful. If they think it would help, they will be able to show you exactly how to use it. I can't say that it would necessarily be helpful for regular training, but for dog aggression/leash reactivity, it works great. My trainer said that it gives the dog a minute to think about making better choices and I couldn't agree more.


 Oh I'm pretty sure they can't use one and will go into elaborate detail on how it won't work and can't help him.


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## GypsyGhost

Chip18 said:


> Oh I'm pretty sure they can't use one and will go into elaborate detail on how it won't work and can't help him.


Are you saying the trainer will say that? (It's late, I'm tired... Just want to make sure I'm understanding what you're saying!) If that's the case, they need to find another trainer! I am far from anti-prong as that is the tool I find works best for my dog for obedience work, but I am lucky to have a trainer that uses lots of different tools depending on what the goal is. Slip lead, prong, ecollar; they all have their place.


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## Chip18

GypsyGhost said:


> Are you saying the trainer will say that? (It's late, I'm tired... Just want to make sure I'm understanding what you're saying!) If that's the case, they need to find another trainer! I am far from anti-prong as that is the tool I find works best for my dog for obedience work, but I am lucky to have a trainer that uses lots of different tools depending on what the goal is. Slip lead, prong, ecollar; they all have their place.


Yes I am saying *that trainer will say something like that.* 

I don't use a "prong myself but I could. I just have no need to, SLL works just fine for "me." Snug and high for the first couple of minutes and if that a slight tug sideways if there are issues and off we go.

If you have a trainer that actually teaches clients how to use one??That's pretty rare! ''But yes I think the OP's "trainer" will offer some sort of "explanation" as to why a SLL can't be used.


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## gaia_bear

I train with a dominant dog collar and a prong as well...as others have mentioned they are just another tool. I have a "special, angry" dog who has potential for handler aggression and it's the easiest calmest tool for me to use to get him to snap out of it. 

Corrections once he's in that state of arousal do nothing but stimulate him further and give him the fight he's looking for. 

They have their place depending on the dog, situation and what you're trying to achieve but I can see them be abused very easily. But used properly I've found it to be very effective for what we need it for.


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## SuperG

Chip18 said:


> I think the OP's "trainer" will offer some sort of "explanation" as to why a SLL can't be used.


 I am guessing here again as I can't speak for the trainer who demonstrated but my guess is...quickness and efficiency of application.....DDC connected to traffic lead or even shorter is only used when required and not for any other purpose....2 collars on dog....1 being regular collar and regular lead...other being the DDC up high and snug. It seemed to me the DDC needed to be employed with direct upward pressure from the collar location. A SLL by itself might not always offer this.


SuperG


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## Chip18

SuperG said:


> I am guessing here again as I can't speak for the trainer who demonstrated but my guess is...quickness and efficiency of application.....DDC connected to traffic lead or even shorter is only used when required and not for any other purpose....2 collars on dog....1 being regular collar and regular lead...other being the DDC up high and snug.* It seemed to me the DDC needed to be employed with direct upward pressure from the collar location. A SLL by itself might not always offer this.
> *
> 
> SuperG


Aww heck it's not that trainer it's Sean O'Shea this guy:
Los Angeles Dog Trainer - Dog Aggression Training - Dog Behavior Modification
https://www.facebook.com/The-Good-Dog-Training-And-Rehabilitation-133978373293039/

As for the rest ... yep, pretty astute observations!


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## Chip18

gaia_bear said:


> I train with a dominant dog collar and a prong as well...as others have mentioned they are just another tool. I have a "special, angry" dog who has potential for handler aggression and it's the easiest calmest tool for me to use to get him to snap out of it.
> 
> Corrections once he's in that state of arousal do nothing but stimulate him further and give him the fight he's looking for.
> 
> They have their place depending on the dog, situation and what you're trying to achieve* but I can see them be abused very easily.* But used properly I've found it to be very effective for what we need it for.


 Yet again thanks for the in site and yes as you stated in bold. Pet owners that are used to yanking and pulling backward would most likely continue to do so??

Most likely that would be owners that are subject to doing things like this:









Instructions from her "trainer" I lost track of the details but I do believe she had an E-Collar also??

If one tool is good "all" of them are "gooder" school of dog training.


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## Steve Strom

ZiggytheSheprador said:


> so how do i determine if the prong collar amps my pup and that making the switch is the correct choice?


Wait, its generally the poor timing or confusion that amps the dog up. Restricting their air with a nylon collar can send some dogs immediately into a kind of survival mode, sometimes its subtle, sometimes its ugly. Like Jeremy pointed out, you can make things worse. Spend more time teaching what you want before you decide there's a problem bad enough to try anything like this.


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