# To "rescue" or not



## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

I am looking to get a GSD. I have had them in the past. I used to import them from working lines in the Czech republic. I am not looking to import at this time I don't have the money for that! I went to an AKC show this weekend and decided I would really like to compete in obedience and later agility. I do not want to compete in the confirmation ring as I feel the AKC has some misguided standards (don't want to start any arguments here!)
So I have an opportunity to get a puppy from a family whos child is allergic. He is 12 weeks ish (not certain of his exact dob) and there is no info on the parents or registration or anything.

Now my concerns are for the hips and elbows, but even if I get from a breeder and pay $$$$$ that puppy could still have problems even if the parents have been tested, granted the chances are lessoned. Will a puppy who is going to have a straighter topline look different from an AKC angled dog at this point in his life? I am going to go looking at pictures in a min to see if I can see. I WANT a dog with a straighter topline more from a working breed tehn from an AKC show line.

Since I am not NEEDING AKC registration, I can get a PAL # to show under and I have NO intention of breeding so the puppy will be nuetered at the appropriate age. Any thoughts on "rescueing" BEFORE it is placed in a rescue?

What type of tests should I do on the pup when I meet him to make sure he will be good for the things I want to do?
Feel free to tell me I shouldn't do it too! I want to hear all opinions.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

where did the people who have him get him from?

Topline/straight back/angulation have nothing to do with hip status, nor what the dog can do physically.

Have you met the puppy? What's he like? good focus? follow you around? interested in you? disinterested in you? 

If you have no information on his background, there's not much anyone can really say as to temperament etc..If you like him, take him


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

When you say "compete," do you mean that you're aiming for advanced titles and high scores, or that you'd just like to be active in the sport with your dog for fun?

If your goal is to go all Seriously Serious about competition, then I wouldn't start with a puppy of totally unknown background.

On the other hand, if you're just in it to have fun and see how far you can go, and you like the puppy and won't be totally devastated if you end up with a loving companion rather than a sport superstar, go for it.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

I have absolutely NO background on him. They said they got him off craigslist. My thought on this is this...........I am not trying to be mean or anything! They live in a certain area, not the best area, they traveled about an hour to get him from where they said they got him. there are plenty of GSDs for sale closer. So they either got him real cheap or free. They took him to petsmart for his first shots and he is 12 weeks so he didn't get any shots at 8 weeks. They want $250 but she said since I am nice and am interested she would take $225. 
I'm thinking more like "I'll take him off your hands since you can't keep him" But I can tell they could use the money so $100 sounds fair. Plus I have to travel an hour to get him.
I am going to be paying to neuter him, get him proper veterinary care, get him all the stuff he deserves and the training he will need.
He lives outside chained up and that breaks my heart but I am trying to not let my heart over rule common sense!I am just trying to find a puppy that needs a home not BUY one from a backyard breeder and encourage that!
WOW re reading this to check for mistakes and I sound like a jerk! I promise I am not a jerk!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sounds like a BYB dog, but you know that.Your plans are all well and good but I don't see anything about dealing with a dog that may have issues because of his background?

No you don't sound like a jerk but what you laid out is more appropriate for someone starting with a puppy and moving forward.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

I feel sort of like a jerk for thinking the things I think about the situation! But I do truely have the intention of taking the best care of the dog and I think that the people made a mistake getting the dog and now want out of it and want to get money out of it. I think they should be thinking of the best interest of the puppy! 
Here are the pictures I have

























It is supposed to start raining in the next day or so for several days and I don't want to think of the suffering this guy is going to go through there! I just don't want to pay that much for him! I guess I am just a baddy!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Oh he is handsome...OK, I'll say don't be cheap!  Rescues charge more because they have more overhead, good ones also check a dog out for behavioral issues and health check. That's all on you!

Most likely because they don't have time for him he has a lower chance of having PARVO!


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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

Okay. The brutal truth, $200 isn't much at all. If it is to you. Then you shouldn't have a dog to begin with. Dogs are expensive to maintain. What are you going to do when you get hit with a huge unexpected vet bill? 

I pay roughly 80-100 a month just in food. Toys aren't cheap either. Crate. Bedding. The list goes on. 

So if money is a concern then I suggest you don't do it. Just my honest opinion. 

I'm up to three dogs now, looking for a fourth. So I understand how bad you want him. Just make sure you can give him what he needs and if you can I say go for it and don't hesitate another day.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

I know how much dogs are, I used to import them to the tune of $3500 for an 8 week old puppy. On the same note, that puppy had a pedigree that was well thought out, had been through all the health checks, was guaranteed against defects.
I know how much accouterments for dogs are.
I know how much proper health care costs. 
I guess I just don't like back yard breeders charging what they do for pups when they don't do any of the "due diligence" They are just selling cute puppies that people want until something goes wrong and then they dump them. 
I know I can give him what he needs and I feel bad for him I am just having a hard time with the whole BYB thing! I know these people are not the ones who did it But still!
I don't know what my hang up is! Maybe I'll go look at him tomorrow, any good tests I should do to check him? I want to make sure he is as mentally sound as can be under the circumstances, and as physically sound as well.
I am thinking bring a tug toy, a ball, some noisy keys, anything else?
what should I do with him and what should I look for? I am experienced but I would like to have input and advice so I can have something to fall back on when my heart takes over!!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

It may be a long shot but since you want a working line have you looked at ArkAngel's threads? He rescued a WL from a bad situation, younger male, dog has some aggression issues but hasn't been eval'd by a more knowledgeable WL trainer. He's in the Bay Area, if you can travel or meet? Check out his thread in the 'urgent rescue' sub forum.....http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...fear-aggressive-manteca-ca-2.html#post5080578


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I would probably take him for a walk off of the property to see how he is away from the normal area. I want to see a confident puppy. See how interested he is in food and toys. That will make training significantly easier. See if he will play with you at all. I would not want a shy, reserved or spooky puppy. Obviously you will need to guess at his heath to a certain extent unless you want to take him to a vet local to the owner. The 12 week vaccine is not a problem. Do one more after 16 weeks. This is a rescue so treat it like a rescue evaluation. There are often unknowns. Lead with your head and not your heart when making a decision. If he is what you want than you can take a chance and offer them the $200. They might come down. If not you will have to decide if he is enough what you want for the extra $25.


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## ZoeD1217 (Feb 7, 2014)

He's adorable! I'm no help 

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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

Yeah ZoeD you are no help!! Thanks!! 
That's the problem, he is a cutie and I KNOW my heart is going to fall for him! 
Ihczth......... thanks for the advice, that is what I am looking for, just need my memory refreshed as to what I need to do to properly eval and not fall in love yet! Good call on taking him out.
We shall see, I am still not set on going to see him, doing my research to try and be prepared.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

I understand what you're going through. It would absolutely kill me thinking that they most likely got him for free and are now trying to flip him for some cash. 


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

I was reading some posts last night about not getting puppies after eight weeks because it is less likely they will bond with you and they have already missed the golden window of opportunity for imprinting behaviors and stuff. This guy was supposedly born late November so that puts him between 12 and 14 weeks old. Any thoughts on this before I go look at him?


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

12 weeks? LOL -- I recently had a 10 *YEAR* old GSD in rescue bond as hard and deeply with her adopter as any dog I've ever known. She won the lottery in her senior years, after a bad youth, and she knows it. Shadow to her people--check. Attentive and biddable--check. Emotionally connected to her people--check. She thinks her family hung the sun, moon, and stars and would do _anything _for them. When they bond, they bond deeply, even as fully grown adults. I wouldn't worry about a young puppy being too old.


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## GSKnight (Oct 18, 2011)

I rescued Viktor when he was 3 years old. I can't imagine any dog bonding more...


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

We adopted Warden from a similar situation. He was 5 months, no real background info, but he's got papers. kept in an apartment by nice people who didn't have time. We met him and observed him and he was perfect for us. He was unsocialized, but upon meeting him we knew it wasn't anything we couldn't handle. He was worth the $500 the owners required for him. 

I'll just say that he's the best dog I've ever had, very deeply bonded, focused, and driven. He graduated the advanced off-leash obedience program at our training club after 9 weeks and we are now looking at Schutzhund for fun. 

I say meet the dog. I think you'll know after if you really want him! 


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## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

Our friends got a puppy at 8 months old....the week after they got him everyone was out on the boat. Their daughter jumped over the side....the dog followed...he swam around her and would not leave her side....the dog has not only bonded with them, but with our family as well...it was a week tops...I don't think you would have a problem, but I am no expert just voicing what I have witnessed. 

The puppy is so cute and looks like be needs someone to make him happy. I can't imagine chaining a puppy...well...a big dog either...but he looks bored and lonely. 

Good luck making your decision. 


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I think the OP really wants this puppy. You can start your offer low but, as you know, once you're there, he's yours and your wallet is open.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Magwart said:


> 12 weeks? LOL


Amen to that. 

Twelve weeks is still very young. A sociable dog will have absolutely no trouble bonding with you. Twelve weeks, fourteen weeks, two years, six years, it doesn't matter. If the dog has an affiliative nature, the bond will happen. If it doesn't, the age doesn't matter.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

lhczth said:


> I would probably take him for a walk off of the property to see how he is away from the normal area. I want to see a confident puppy. See how interested he is in food and toys. That will make training significantly easier. See if he will play with you at all. I would not want a shy, reserved or spooky puppy.


My concern with this pup is looking at the pictures, there are all sorts of things that pup could easily get into - all within reach of where it's chained. A plastic bag full of cans, and umbrella etc. I can't think of one puppy I've ever had that wouldn't tear those things up in a heart beat. Yet, that pup leaves them alone.


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## Melissa98409 (Jun 17, 2013)

SARpup said:


> I am looking to get a GSD. I have had them in the past. I used to import them from working lines in the Czech republic. I am not looking to import at this time I don't have the money for that! I went to an AKC show this weekend and decided I would really like to compete in obedience and later agility. I do not want to compete in the confirmation ring as I feel the AKC has some misguided standards (don't want to start any arguments here!)
> So I have an opportunity to get a puppy from a family whos child is allergic. He is 12 weeks ish (not certain of his exact dob) and there is no info on the parents or registration or anything.
> 
> Now my concerns are for the hips and elbows, but even if I get from a breeder and pay $$$$$ that puppy could still have problems even if the parents have been tested, granted the chances are lessoned. Will a puppy who is going to have a straighter topline look different from an AKC angled dog at this point in his life? I am going to go looking at pictures in a min to see if I can see. I WANT a dog with a straighter topline more from a working breed tehn from an AKC show line.
> ...


RESCUE, RESCUE, RESCUE. I rescued my boy and knew not one single thing about GSD's. You can look at my profile for pictures to see his progression, but the short story is that Jericho was from a backyard breeder (most likely) and was abused, discarded, and ended up in the local shelter where I fostered and adopted him. It was the best decision I have ever made. He is brilliant, healthy, and is catching on to agility beautifully. We are hoping to compete in trials this summer. If pedigree is not something you need. I totally think you should rescue. You would be helping the family that needs to rehome their pet. I think we can all agree that it would be ideal to rehome the dog to someone who can help the little guy be the best pup he/she can be and understands the breed. It sounds like you are the perfect match for this dog. I think that you are right in that health problems can arise in a dog from even the best of bloodlines. We just deal with what we are faced with and make the best decision we can for the situation and our pet. I might have mentioned it before but....RESCUE! That's my two cents on the subject.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

Lilie......Those pictures were taken a few days ago and he had just gotten there, they say they got him on wednesday and got his shots on saturday at petsmart at the half price shot clinic and now they need to find him a new home. Here is the picture of the shots she said she got but I can't see the whole thing so don't know for sure it is from him!









she is not being negotiable at all! I really do want to go help him but this woman is not helping me! I know the price is not a bad one and I know I can afford it I just don't know! I have to drive an hour to go see him and check if he will even be good for me, then drive back in the traffic maybe with a puppy!
I sort of like the fact that he is a little older, he will have more bladder control then an 8 week old!!! 
I just don't know!! I guess I'll go do dishes or something and wait for her reply to my request to come test him out. If she wont let me test him outside of her fenced area I think I'll have to pass.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

get a crate and go
sounds like a great deal
he had a routine puppy vax and a kennel cough vax and was dewormed
saved you around $80 right there


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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

I vote Rescue! I rescued one, cost me $200, the first one cost me $250 and the third one.....well that was free, but thats just because I wheel and deal haha


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

Now the woman says she is going to keep him even though she was adamant that he had to go because of her little daughters allergies. "My daughter doesn't want him to go" she says.
I told her good luck and to make sure she knew what she was getting into keeping a GSD. He needs to be exercised everyday and trained properly. I feel bad for the poor guy, it is getting ready to pour down rain for the next 4 days!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

So I have an opportunity to get a puppy from a family whos child is allergic. He is 12 weeks ish (not certain of his exact dob) and there is no info on the parents or registration or anything.

xxxxxxxx

do you think this dog had a lot of exposure to the persons child, or has he been living beside the garbage bin tied up .
why has the person not returned to the breeder?
at least get a phone number so that you can contact the breeder and ask them some questions 

dogs do get stolen -- I don't like things being vague . a lot of red flags here

now she has shown you the sorry , dejected looking puppy and may end up asking for more $$$ because they know you are concerned and kind hearted to save the dog.

we had someone in the neighbourhood that did this kind of thing repeatedly


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

I asked her several times for the info of the people she got him from but she doesn't have it she says! She says she got him off Craigslist so she should have an email address or something at least! I have emails and texts from months back and she only got him on Wednesday! That's part of the reason I think she got him free and is trying to make a buck on him!
I am sure the right guy will come round when I need him the most! I just feel bad for this one!


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

This is really sketchy and I would be uncomfortable with it. 

If the dog is really outside without shelter or water, you should let Animal Control know. That's not legal.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

too sketchy , what if someone comes after you to reclaim their dog


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

Well no matter, I am done playing games with her, I have been legitimately trying to help a pup out but not go in blind so trying to get as much info as possible before driving the hour to go see him and now she wants to jerk my chain around! I will just find another pup to love! There are plenty who need homes!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

There are lots of great german shepherds available for rescue in CA.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> test him outside of her fenced area


And she wouldn't. Probably, because you sound as a desperate one, the fact that you want to do some tests (God knows what they are, sounds scary) put her off you. Here's a psychological moment, you should understand it. Be canny from now on, you scared the woman. I suggest you what: ask or your dad, or some older person than you are to call again and ask for only one thing - to see the puppy. Come together with him, not alone (!) as his wife or daughter. And don't speak to her as a person who knows dogs well, people hate it, believe me, I'm a trainer! Learn to listen to people, wait when she starts to ask you questions and answer them in the way which would relax her. Good luck.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

Thank you David for your knowledge.
I never asked the woman if I could "test" the dog I just said I wanted to go see him and show him some things to see if he would be a good match for me. The things I asked her for were his shot record, any info on the breeder or the parents, where she got him from, things like that that I feel any same person should ask BEFORE going to see a dog.
Even if my plans are to "rescue" a dog does not mean I have to settle for whatever is there, I still feel I am allowed to get information like that before I commit to looking at a prospective dog.
That is the whole reason for my post to get ideas of what to look for so I am better prepared to go see a puppy and not melt. When I go through reputable breeders it is easier because we are both knowledgable and are on the same wave length. When going to a house where they know nothing of the breed or anything, I prefer to have a plan so I don't get something that will not be a good match for me.


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## Oisin's Aoire (Jun 17, 2013)

Have you checked around that area for stolen or lost puppy notices? It sounds fishy ..like either she , or the person she got him from ,stole this puppy.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

I am not near her or near where she claims to have gotten him from. I am just washing my hands of the whole thing. I hope the puppy gets the care he deserves.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

well I caved! She texted me back and said she wanted to get rid of the puppy, I couldn't take the nagging feeling I needed to help him. I went and got him and so far I am glad and sad I did. He is a wreck! They must have mistreated him, he is soo fearful! He just wants to hide in the shadows! I hope I can help him out of this!! He is way to skinny too. I keep my dogs trim but he is beyond trim! AND he limps! I will be getting him to the vet as soon as I can to see what the problem could be! Well at least he is safe now, he might not work for what I want because he has been mistreated in such early stages of his life but I hope to be able to help him see all humans are not bad! I will make a new thread and update everyone. Thanks for the help!


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

SARpup said:


> well I caved! She texted me back and said she wanted to get rid of the puppy, I couldn't take the nagging feeling I needed to help him. I went and got him and so far I am glad and sad I did. He is a wreck! They must have mistreated him, he is soo fearful! He just wants to hide in the shadows! I hope I can help him out of this!! He is way to skinny too. I keep my dogs trim but he is beyond trim! AND he limps! I will be getting him to the vet as soon as I can to see what the problem could be! Well at least he is safe now, he might not work for what I want because he has been mistreated in such early stages of his life but I hope to be able to help him see all humans are not bad! I will make a new thread and update everyone. Thanks for the help!


Perhaps you could foster him, let a rescue group know you have him, and get him past some of his issues in preparation for his forever home? Even if you do that, you should feel very good about getting him out of that situation. 

Fostering never worked for me, though--I always invested too much of my heart and they stayed!


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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

I'm glad you caved. You probably saved that dogs life. 

I agree with the Foster option. I myself couldn't do it, as I get way too attached. But if you could, it may not be a bad idea.

Good job on saving him.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

He's cute! He may not have a real sound temperament, genetically. I would just start from scratch, try not to coddle and don't assume he was mistreated (it's a soft spot with me because my first dog was pretty weak-nerved and people were *constantly* asking if she was abused - never!).


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

I'll keep that in mind however all indications point towards mistreatment. He has some fear aggression as well.
Again, I am satisfied that I got him out of a bad situation.


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## rumhelka (Aug 31, 2011)

*Congratulations!*

I'm happy that you've rescued this puppy. Poor thing suffered enough. Now, with your help he can develop into a trully great Dog. I always rescue dogs whether purebreads or not it doesn't matter. They are all worth it.
Good Luck with your baby!
(I also think that this puppy was stolen).


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## rumhelka (Aug 31, 2011)

Give him love and time to know and trust you, and you won't regret it... He will be the best!


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## BMWHillbilly (Oct 18, 2012)

Thank God you rescued him! There is a reason this particular pup pulled at your heartstrings. BYB pup or not he deserved to be safe and in a loving home. No animal deserves abuse!


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

I can't wait for pictures 


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Well, you wanted this pup out of that situation since you first heard about it. I'm glad you got him. Whatever comes next is an improvement. Good news is that the people you got him from claim only to have had him for a short while. That does leave you with a lot of questions about what his life was like earlier. They'll never be answered because he's not telling! 
But anyway, congrats, thank you and all that + best of luck. Keep us posted with the developments and see where he takes you.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

When you take him to the vet ask them to see if he's been micro-chipped. IF he has you can probably find out who the breeder was.

Be vigilant on working though his fear issues & be hyper alert for signs of fear aggression. People on the board who have dealt with fear & nerve issues can provide a lot of insights & support.

Good luck!


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## Judahsmom (Mar 2, 2011)

Congratulations on your rescue!
I rescued Jiah, a White German Shepherd, 2 years ago in March. She was an extremely skittish dog, believed to be feral. She would not make eye contact, coward at everyone, didn't want to be near, ate little, had no manners whatsoever, ate through 2 wire crates and was miserable. Today, she is the most loveable dog I have ever had! She is my shadow. She will do anything I ask of her and instantly. She obeys almost before I finish my requests. Also, she doesn't even need a crate any more. She is home while I'm at work all day and doesn't destroy anything and never has had an accident. I have another White German Shepherd and I think he's helped her a lot too. I've had her in obedience training and advanced obedience and she past with flying colors. She will always be a timid dog, but not skittish now. She holds her head up, wants affection from me and has adjusted well beyond what I had ever hoped for. Yes, the beginning was rough. This happened over 2 years ago but I can say it was well worth all the patience and care we have given her.
I wish you the best. We found she came around by us not going to her and demanding things. We let her build her trust. We did not baby her though. Our trainer reminded us that her past was her past and we needed to be about her future where she is healthy and loved. It worked.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

So glad you rescued the poor little guy. I rescued before rescue 3 puppies last year March 1, 2013 for free. My neighbor lost her home and had to be out by the 1st. I had them all vaccinated, collars, food etc and gave 2 of them away to good homes for free. No charges for vaccines or anything I bought them, because I knew they would be happy with these people. 
We kept Dex because he was more shy than the other 2 and smaller. I really think he was the runt of the litter. I know how disease spreads in the shelter and just couldn't see these puppies go there. Even though my pup has some issues, I would gladly have paid for him. He's part of our pack now and I love him so much.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

At 12 weeks, he's still has the possibility of being VERY resilient. Don't count him out. 

I've seen some breathtaking transformations in much older dogs whose psyches were utterly broken, and this one hasn't suffered nearly as long. Over and over I've found positive-method OB training is the key to bringing these dogs out of the darkness and rebuilding their confidence. 

I've had a few experiences where a dog's entire affect changes about three weeks into a good class -- posture straightens, head comes up, ears are held high instead of always being down, a new sparkle emerges in the eye -- once they realize their world is now predictable, and they know the right thing to do. They become so excited and proud to keep repeating the right thing and earning their praise and reward.

Make every interaction about building that pup's self-esteem and trust, creating a routine, and a predictable structure--give his psyche a chance to heal from whatever came before, and then you'll be in a better position to judge what he may be capable of in the future.


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