# Dog Trainer hired - but not sure I agree with her!



## Deuce'sMom (Jul 4, 2008)

Deuce is almost 9 months ago and in his teenage months has become a big problem - particularly outside where he wants to lead and display his dominance. If checked, he becomes livid and jumps at us biting on the arm (through coat) and mitts.

I had posted about this before, and received much helpful advice. One piece of advice we followed was to hire a qualified trainer to help us through what we hope are just challenging "teenage" times. She has spent a great deal of time with us and although my husband is seeing more progress on controlled walks (less "eruptions"), the dog is still being very dominant with me. 

The trainer acknowledges that there is a catch 22 going on here. He behaves 300% better if properly exercised, but cannot be fully exercised through walks alone as he is just learning to walk properly and because it is -30C here and we cannot physically be outside that long. I could drain some of his energy by playing ball with him (he LOVES his Chuck-It), but she does not want us to do that - no offleash activity - until we have the onleash work going smoothly.

He gets along very well with other dogs and loves the dog park as well - of course offleash. While we have committed to her that we will do as she says, I am wondering WHY offleash time is so bad if it leads to us getting some positive experiences with him behaving onleash?

Your thoughts??


----------



## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

The only real problem I have with letting a dog off-leash when it's in training is that IF the dog gets away with anything tempting (chasing a rabbit, running to a person, ignoring a command) then you've just set back the training a huge step. Dogs are opportunistic and if they think something will work for them, they'll try it. If your dog learns that when he's off-leash he can do whatever he wants then it will become more difficult if you ever DO want to go to off-leash training. I do start mine on off-leash training when they're puppies but if there's temptations I go back to the long lines.

On the other hand, the exercise situation is probably making things hellish for both you AND your dog. I've had some luck with using very very long lines (50-100' of line). This can be parachute cord of light nylon webbing, etc. What this does is allows the dog to race out for a toy/stick/ball and race back (especially if you're playing the two-ball game and he races to one end of the long line and then you throw a ball the other way and he has to race two lengths of the line to get to the other ball). You do have to be careful not to throw things beyond the reach of the long line, but you can make your long line fit the length of the area you have to play in too.

Then you have a way to stop your dog if something comes along that creates a problem. And I understand completely the difficulties with the cold weather! Our cold spell seems to be breaking slightly (it was -45 the other night) so hopefully we're on an upswing as it's been about two weeks steady of these temps. I play a LOT in the back shop with the dogs which is a limited area but at least I can bounce a ball off the walls or toss treats for the dogs to run to. Tazer is NOT getting enough exercise, though (she's 18 months and a wild thing) so I really look forward to when we can get outside again and I can throw her frisbee until she drops .. *L* 

Stick with it, I think you'll be really happy with the end results!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I disagree with the trainer in this specific case. Off-lead excersise as a release valve for extreme pent-up energy is a MUST in this situation-- and THEN go for your walk. Your walk itself IS an obedience excersise. This dog needs to blow off that teenaged excess steam. Trying to walk this dog, in this situation, and at his age _before_ his excersise session drains his energy _could be _working against nature, a struggle and losing battle for both of you. This off-lead discharging of energy is not a reward, it is require before you can interact much with your own dog. You XAN however have him "work for" his Chuck-it sessions... then set it up as a reward for the sits and downs. But, this sounds like a dog who desperately needs this outlet so that he then CAN focus on you for the remainder of the day, or working, training, walking, whatever.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I too wouldn't let the dog off-leash unless under very controlled situations. Dogs are always learning, and usually when you start formal training they become even more receptive to our actions. Then, every time you call the dog and he's not enforced to come, the dog is leaning that "come" means "keep doing your business". With a dominant dog you are getting the wrong idea into the dog that he must obey only if physically enforced or lured with treats, but if not. he can do whatever he wants.

To be of-leash has to be a privilege earned by the dog. In the meantime, I agree that exercise is a must, but you have to look for alternatives, the long line Melanie mentioned, free time in fenced-in areas big enough to provide exercise to the dog but small enough to maintain control, playing two ball (which can be done on the long-line), etc.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I feel that if you have a safe place you can play chuckit with you dog, I would also do it. Almost not fair to ask for calm/thinking behavior from a puppy with no much energy they are bouncing off the walls............makes the training so much harder for dog and handler.

I personally feel the exercise is more part of my bonding and downtime with my dog. I can get some training in, like my dog has to sit before I throw the ball, or down, but it's all happy and fun and to wear my dog out while having fun with me.

Have you tried the head collars like the gentle leader to supplement the training? So you could still walk him, just walk him, in a safe manner?

GOOD FOR YOU FOR FINDING A TRAINER!









Just keep in mind, sometimes the best trainer now may not be the best trainer 6 months from now (or maybe will







). And the best training choice now (privates) may work out in the future better in a different venue (say a group class?). So keep you mind open, keep looking around and learning, and progressing on the 'dog owner road'!


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

What about other forms of exercise - like a springer attachment on a bike?
ETA: Just saw your location, so I guess table that suggestion until spring!







Skijouring? Probably joints are too young for that. Hmm...


----------



## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Can you do this?

If not, practice it. No rolling, no force, use praise and/or treats.
If you can't, he's confused, and needs to understand pack order.
Every human in your home should be able to do this.

Once this is doable, everything else will get easier.


----------



## cherishedchessie (Jan 8, 2009)

I foster chesapeakes so I know how important it is to them to get that free time, I also understand when a dog has aggression issues that free time is not always doable with the mind set of the dog. Danged if you do danged if you don't.
I agree with the long line and ball time I do this when it is horrid outside, A lunge line used for horses is great to thin of aline can cut into your hand you have to be quick on your feet in case he has 50 feet on you and is distracted by a rabbit or something you need to always know where your feet and the line is.
I also hide their toys all over the house and tell them to search, I use kong toys with treats inside for mental stimulation. I also teach all of mine to walk on a treadmill great for when the days are just to cruddy for outings. Once they get the hang of it the incline setting is awesome to burn off energies.
Most dog training is mental, you have to control the mind before you can control the body. Hope some of things help. Though I don't understand the no off leash work as mine get both they get a run and then leashed and walked back. I am not one to go against a trainer, I ask for suggestions from others and then incorporate all that makes sense to me.


----------



## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Too late to edit...

I just wanted to add tennis courts, usually enclosed except for a entry
way, unused during winter, make for safe off lead games of ball tossing or the two hose game....2 foot long pieces.
Toss 1st in one direction, play with the other, teach Out or Drop It as he drops it upon return, toss 2nd in opposite direction, making you the center of activity.

Dance in place to stay warm!

Oh the things we'll do to tire our pups!


----------



## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I usually jump over her in a down stay. I'm going to try just standing there next time. Interesting exercise.


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DonnaBHe behaves 300% better if properly exercised,


To me, the above says it all.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

all dogs different in the way they learn, train and behave. we brought our puppy home at 9 weeks old and he was only on the leash during training. he had full run of the house from day one. we had to watch closely but it was manageable. we were in the woods most of the time. we trained up to 6 times a day. each session was 5 minutes to 10 minutes long. that was only time my dog was leashed. my dog is 19 months old now and trained. when we walk he stays on the sidewalk and not the neighbors lawns. my point is my dog is well trained and he was off leash alot. 

put your dog on a training schedule. since your dog is showing aggression towards you, you should work with your dog more. are you sure what seems like aggression isn't play??? 

the dog park is a great place to train. lots of good distractions. discuss the dog park with your trainer. your dog gets to play and exercise and train.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you should be able to step over your dog, take his food bowl away, pet him while he's eating. pack order, our dogs are totally domesticated. your dog isn't challenging to be leader of the pack. they don't have to be pack leader. we do everything for our dogs. we feed them, we exercise them, they ride in the back of the car(cahauferred), we bathe them, take them to the pet store for toys and treats, etc. what is it they need to challenge?? if someone did for you what you do for your dog would you challenge it? dogs are very comfortable in their coexistence with us. 

my neighbors came over for a visit a couple of days ago. our boy was stretched out on the floor. they stepped over him dog several times. one of my neighbors took a bone from my dog while he was playing with it. a couple of months ago a client was here and she started petting my dog on the face while he was eating. when you're laying down does your dog ever come over to you and put some part of his body on you? when you're sitting does your dog ever come over and lean on you?when you're sitting does your dog ever come over and give you his paw or put his head in your lap? what do you think is going on when that happens?

pack order, dominence, claiming, i've never worried about it. i don't have this i dominate my dogs attitude. we coexist. they chew the pillows i clean it up. they dump the water bowl i clean it up. they want to go out in the middle of the night i open the door. they want to get on the bed i move over. when you do this and all of the other things we do for our dogs our dogs know they have a well trained human.

you have a nice looking puppy.




> Originally Posted By: dOg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Deuce'sMom (Jul 4, 2008)

Just to let you know that both my husband and myself can easily stand over our dog (not alot of clearance given that neither of us are very tall!!). He didn't react at all - no need for treats, etc to do this. Just FYI.


----------

