# A course that's more hard than fun?



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Oh yeah! Can you believe I'd even say that? Yes- this is a course that borders on my own "fun" scale as being, well, not fun. I've seen some crazy courses before- but wow this looks difficult. I'd still love to run it though, lol!!
:silly:


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

It's designed to be *hard* -- what a neat vid, tho.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Wow that dog can JUMP!  That was awesome!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I know it's designed to be hard, lol. I'm just sayin'... Man- it's REALLY hard. It could be frustrating without some very serious skill. I think the Number 7 jump after the broad jump would be sooooooooooo hard to get. I do really like how that Fred guy handled the intro- 1 through 8.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

all I can say is WOW. 

yes, not a course I could run myself, but it was definitely fun to watch. It was just beautiful!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

and now that I've wasted all this time watching agility on youtube I need a nap!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Interesting because it shows how agility is still such a changing sport. The types of coursed being designed and how they are being handled. You would NOT have seen a course like this 10 (5?) years ago in any venue.

The 'new' handling thing is interesting too (and, BTW why taking classes with a good instructor if you don't have people like Wildo finding this stuff  ). One of the handling moves that make the way the guy does this line so smoothly is a 'new' thing called by some as the 'Ass Pass' (though I'm thinking there's another name for it!).

http://agilitynerd.com/blog/agility/journal/ketscher-rename.html <-- ass pass





 




 
It's what he does from 2 to three that has the dog take the jump and go around behind him from 2 to 3...

Then the fact he's doing TONS of blind crosses when that was such a HUGE 'no no ' even just a couple of years ago according to many handling methods. Cause you take your eye off the dog. 

Wonderfully made video, fun to watch. How about that weavepole entry!!

aw:


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I don't believe that was a ketschker at jump #2 in the original video, MRL- though I agree at first glance it looks like it. I'm pretty sure that a ketschker requires a change of side- specifically via a blind cross. What that Fred guy did is a modified reverse flow pivot. Steve mentioned this at the handling seminar I went to in discussing serps and threadles. I just checked my notes on threadles and here's what Steve said about such a move:


Old School- People did a very strict Greg Derrett-like style of handling serps/threadles where they wouldn't cue the next move until the dog actually landed. Handlers would wait until the dog had landed prior to indicating that they need to turn back in.
Intermediate- Here, people (and GD mentions this in his handling videos) started blending the pull through with the push. This is the genisis of the reverse flow pivot. You're still pushing them over, but you're also using your off hand to cue that they will be turning back into you. And you're giving that cue prior to take off.
New School (cool kids)- The "cool kids" as Steve put it are taking it one step further and doing the reverse flow pivot while running backwards. They have removed the need for the off hand since they've turned into the dog. You'd almost call it a "reverse flick" of sorts.

But the key with the reverse flick is that the dog remains on the same handler side. In the video, the dog comes out of the tunnel on the handler's left. The handler turns into the dog and flips him over the jump while running backwards. The handler then picks the dog up on the left again. 

In a kerschker (ass pass) the handler would still turn into the dog and do a "reverse flick" but the difference is that the kerschker ALSO includes a blind cross where the handler will pick the dog up on the opposite side. In this case, the handler would have picked the dog up on the right side. In fact, in rewatching the video, the dog almost _does_ blind cross at the landing of jump two. The handler caught it and picked the dog back up on his left. Had the dog actually BC'ed there, it would have been a ketschker/ass pass.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

wildo said:


> I don't believe that was a ketschker at jump #2 in the original video, MRL- though I agree at first glance it looks like it. I'm pretty sure that a ketschker requires a change of side- specifically via a blind cross. What that Fred guy did is a modified reverse flow pivot. Steve mentioned this at the handling seminar I went to in discussing serps and threadles. I just checked my notes on threadles and here's what Steve said about such a move:
> 
> 
> In a kerschker (ass pass) the handler would still turn into the dog and do a "reverse flick" but the difference is that the kerschker ALSO includes a blind cross where the handler will pick the dog up on the opposite side. In this case, the handler would have picked the dog up on the right side.* In fact, in rewatching the video, the dog almost does blind cross at the landing of jump two.* The handler caught it and picked the dog back up on his left. Had the dog actually BC'ed there, it would have been a ketschker/ass pass.


So confusing! I see what you are talking about that the dog didn't go from the left to the right of the handler...

But the 'Ass Pass' thing looks exactly the same UNTIL the dog stay on the left to go over jump 3. The dog is sent behind the handler when he goes over 2 and when he lands to go to 3.

And since I have yet to go to any real training for this I'll bow to you cause you are able to break down a course well.

Will say, be interesting to see how many BIG DOGS are able to complete all these sudden twists and turns (and lead changes BTW) so last minute. One of the reasons Greg Darrett's 'tell the dog where they are going when they land' didn't work for me is it was information WAY too late for my dog to make the turn AND leave the bar up....the better/earlier/before they take OFF that I can give the information is better for my girls.

There's a reason we see many of these amazing runs being performed by those darn BC's


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> But the 'Ass Pass' thing looks exactly the same UNTIL the dog stay on the left to go over jump 3. The dog is sent behind the handler when he goes over 2 and when he lands to go to 3.


You're exactly right. The ass pass is only an ass pass if indeed the dog passes the ass! LOL! In this case, there was no cross. :thumbup:



MaggieRoseLee said:


> One of the reasons Greg Darrett's 'tell the dog where they are going when they land' didn't work for me is it was information WAY too late for my dog


I agree, and I think GD would also agree. Steve mentioned that this is _really_ old school stuff. Even Greg mentions in his "Great Dog Shame About the Handler" DVD (which is 10 years old!) about blending the front cross cue (into what is effectively a reverse flow pivot). It's the blended cue that is providing the info early. The "cool kids" method of running backwards is actually _exactly_ the same as the RFP though it doesn't use the off hand. I believe it's the fact that you are turning into your dog that is really the effective part. 

I'm not completely sold on the whole idea of running backwards. Heck, I'm already slow enough running forwards! But I will say the "reverse flick" did work pretty well when I gave it a shot.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MRL- here's your ass pass at 0:41 in this video- right before the A-Frame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a2oI8mErmU


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Thanks!


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## Guardyan (Aug 29, 2005)

Hmm, I would like to learn more but I am afraid to google "ass pass".


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