# 18Mo Female starting to be reactive, I have ideas but looking for feedback.



## Dennis. (Sep 27, 2014)

So I admittedly haven't been lurking the forums near as much as I was pre-Olive but this place has always been a great spot of advice and learning. 

I'm starting to have some issues with my 18Mo Female.

I live in downtown Dallas and from day one worked hard to get her used to all sorts of noises, people, situations, etc. She is great with other people and other dogs. 

One big issue is she has almost ZERO food drive, so complex training has been a struggle but for most general obedience she's "pretty good"

Now I know some folks don't like them but we often go to the local dog park as it's the only place we can do any off leash exercise with a frisbee or toys. She's very social and submissive when a situation is elevated and treats me as home base. 

*My first question:* Tagging during play..
I'm no expert but I don't feel like she's being aggressive in anyway, more annoying, she'll nip other dogs to get them to chase her or play. It doesn't bother me in itself but some people are uncomfortable with it sometimes and I'd like to find a way to stop it now. What has been working is giving her the frisbee, she carries it everywhere in her mouth and instead of nipping just pokes the other dog. 

*
My Second Question:* Leash Reactivity. 
It seems to be that time in her life from what I read that this can start.. She is pretty solid on the leash most places unless she knows we are headed to the dog park, then she pulls as hard as she can. To combat the pulling I got a prong collar and do quick minor corrections but it for the most part has stopped the pulling. 

What has started though is a new awareness of other dogs on the street and the typical barking/pulling with full force. It's actually starting to worry me as before it was to "Say Hello" but now I think it's more alert barking.

Because of the low food drive there isn't much I can do with lures or food distraction but I have started to correct her and put her into a sit until calm. This gets weird though as the other people are sitting there waiting for something instead of just passing and letting us have time. So now I have her sit, stop barking, then we walk in a new direction. 

I no longer allow for greets while on the leash but didn't know if there was much more I should do as it may be just that time in her life or if I should do more?

*Last Question:* Wheels. 
She hates (loves?) wheels. Everything from a furniture dolly to skateboards she barks at them in a playful way and jumps around like whatever they are connected to is a toy. 

Until last weekend we all thought it was cute, but we were off leash hiking like we have for 1000 times and she decided to chase a mountain biker way past where I could see and refused my recall. Turns out she actually bit the tire and scared the **** out of the biker. 

My plan is to borrow a bike and do rides with her so she gets used to them and I can control the situation better. 

She needs more exercise for sure and that's on me, but is there anything else that could help? I'm open to any feedback or advice...


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Siince you've handled the dog park situation where she was nipping by having her carry a frisbee, maybe allow to do that on walks and she may be more relaxed when she sees other dogs and those scary wheels.


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

I don't have any advice on the dog park situation, I live in a rural area and we don't have one. I have a large fenced yard, but when I want to let them stretch their legs a little I find an unused softball field and go for it. Always clean up if you use one though.

For the reactivity and the wheels though, have you tried the leave it command? My younger dog was/is reactive to other dogs, people, bicycles, you name it. He knew the leave it command, but we reinforced it and practice it still everyday. You have to pay attention to your dogs body language though and give the command before they react. If they disobey, correct with the prong. Keep moving forward, don't stop and let your dog get worked up. Keep the leash short, and keep moving, even if you have to change directions.

For my dog it seemed he was able to "leave it" better than to "sit" when faced with a trigger.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Just say no to dog parks especially if your dog is now having issues with other dogs. Gated school yard after hours and off season beaches are a good place to go. For some exercise. My dog is dog reactive. We always have to practice leave it,focus on me or some dog obedience - sit down- sit to keep his brain on me, when other dogs are insight. Lots of good stuff on here about looking and focusing on you.,Dog reactivity and dog parks by searching words in the search box. My dog is dog reactive and finding a good trainer helped me a lot. When my dog was a pup I would have my kids sit on bikes riding around him as I had him in a sit in a stay position practice obedience and giving him treats. Then went for a mini bike ride. He has not looked at a bike since. Same thing with skate boards. If you do not have kids just practice this with your own bike and borrow a skate board to.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Just my 2c, but the wheels thing sounds like a prey/going-to-be-obsession issue and just having her around more wheels may not do the trick. My high drive female has a couple obsessions, hose being one, and e collar was the only way I could control her. Dangerous because she will bite at a metal nozzle and break or teeth, or accidentally bite me while I am holding a hose.

I had done low level foundation e collar work with her prior to using it to deal with other things.

I also worked with an extremely aloof Akita once who cold not be bothered to take a treat, and didn't care enough about praise for there to be any currency there. Once we e collar trained him we were able to develop focus on the handler and suddenly he was interested in treats. Then we were able to introduce food rewards, but not until a couple weeks into e collar if memory serves. 

The one thing he cared enough about for reward was a flirt pole made of a horse lunge whip and stuffie tied on the end of the lash. So before he would take food we used that to reward him for recalls because at start he had zero recall.

I suspect you could do something like the Lou Castle crittering protocoll with e collar about the wheels and make some progress.

But, e collars always come with the standard "seek the help of a qualified professional" disclaimer....or figure out a completely other way to do it....but that's my thought


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Reactivity is easily stopped with a few well timed impactful corrections. A prong collar and leash is all you need.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hmmm ,well it's great that you're having fun at the Dog Park and stuff with "this" dog ... that you seem to be "rapidly" losing control of.

You won't find it online to my knowledge but it's been observation *that badly behaved dogs with owners that continue to take those dogs to "Dog Parks" get better at having dogs that say:*










Your "actively" teaching her that every dog is her freind and it's her "God" given right to meet them. 

See the last link here for "Three Dogs That Should Not Be At The "Dog Park":
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html


So keep doing what your doing and I'll see you in a few months in the "Aggression Forums."


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## Dennis. (Sep 27, 2014)

Thanks for all the feedback guys! 

I've been thinking about the E-Collar to help with some issues as I don't have much sway with food rewards. I've been trying to reserve it for when I can really dedicate more time to specific or serious training but it could be a good idea to start slow now. 

Because of low food drive we haven't had to do much with "Leave It" so it's not as strong. I say "Eh!" or "Hey" and she'll ignore whatever it was. Maybe doing fence walks outside the park would be good to make "Leave it" more powerful...

For corrections and the prong collar, I've been reading some and they say the prong collars are used to raise drive in some cases and I may just be cranking her up... Is correcting her with the collar a good idea when she's on leash barking at another dog?

I've done two sessions to help with the wheels thing... First I got a bike from a friend, tied her to it, and went for a ride. She LOVED running around in the city but is still hesitant of the bike. She's not barking at it anymore but doesn't want to go near it if she doesn't have to. Probably do this again tomorrow. 

At lunch today I brought a skateboard home and she spent a while play barking at it, jumping on it, etc. It would roll and she'd jump back and drop her front to play.. I'll keep it around when I can to get her more used to it. 

@Chip18, I appreciate your insights but I don't feel I'm "rapidly" losing control. We have situations that aren't going the way I want and I'm trying to be proactive about them before they become more serious issues. I recognized things weren't right and I'm going down the path to correct them and just wanted to bounce my plan of other GSD folks. 

I understand the negative viewpoints on Dog Parks, especially for service/working dogs but it isn't because I "Just think they are fun." 

I live downtown and there aren't many places I can readily go to exercise her beyond leash walking. There is a dog park under an overpass 4 blocks from my apartment that is off leash and a good sized area. 

For me, I feel the benefit of space and ease for daily exercise is more valuable than a show level of obedience. She has good park manners and is good at recall and focus on me inside. I understand there are risks with other dogs/people and I think they are acceptable for the space. If stopping the parks is fundamental to improvement I'll do it, but for the time being I'd like to try to keep them as an option. 

And this post is already in the "Aggression Forums"


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Tug/ ball on rope work great for rewards instead of food. When you correct with a prong collar the idea is one quick correction should shut your dog down right away. You do not want give late repetitive corrections all the while your dog is escalating and ignoring you. If your dog is focusing on something and you lost he window to get him paying attention to you is where a correction is needed before your dog escalates. My dog is dog reactive and we are work in progress corrections do not put him on the edge but remind him to use his brain again.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

That is not true. What ramps up your dog is restraining her with the prong while she is in drive. Apply sharp hard corrections for the behavior. Pressure release pressure release until the behaviour stops. Then praise.
I prefer to layer this with basic obedience like having the dog walk next to you then correcting her for leaving your side to bark.

If you don't like a behaviour punish it. If the punishment has no significant impact on the behaviour escalate the intensity until you find the place where it does. 
This can be fixed in a week or in a year or never..it's up to you.


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## robrymond (Sep 7, 2014)

I have the same reactivity problem and it began around the same age except mine is male. He really becomes obsessive now with bouncing and barking (with his hair stood up on his back) at other dogs (and I think usually it is male dogs).

Other people look at me like I'm some unruly owner and it is embarrasing. My dog loves food but even meat doesn't get his attention. Most of the time he is fine on the leash now. If he can get to the other dog or they are off lead then he is fine when they say hello but sadly he looks all brutal when barking.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dennis. said:


> @Chip18, I appreciate your insights but I don't feel I'm "rapidly" losing control. We have situations that aren't going the way I want and I'm trying to be proactive about them before they become more serious issues. I recognized things weren't right and I'm going down the path to correct them and just wanted to bounce my plan of other GSD folks.
> 
> I understand the negative viewpoints on Dog Parks, especially for service/working dogs but it isn't because I "Just think they are fun."


The thing is your training your dog to enjoy the company of other dogs and then you want to "correct" her for doing so?? But so be it ... lots of dogs go to Dog Park and don't have problems, none of mine but hey it's not about me!

So ... moving on, your busy looking for new "tools" to fix your dog and you really don't have a good understanding of the one your currently using. A "Prong Collar" can be used "to take drive out of a dog" but it can also be used "to put drive into a dog." You need to understand that concept in order to use one correctly.

It amplifies force and regardless of what collar you have on your dogs neck "it would be a slight tug "Sideways" to get the dog off center for a proper correction. A "Prong Collar" is not my thing but if your going to use one "properly" check out, Solidk9training Jeff Gellamn, Sean at The Good Dog and Tylor Muto for the proper use of a "Prong Collar."

"Place and Sit on the Dog" should be done outside the confines of the "Dog Park" don't go in everyday "randomize" it so your dog does not "expect" to go in! Those "techniques" Place and Sit on the Dog, train calming behaviour into a dog, all you need to know on those can be found here:

Fearful, Anxious or Flat Crazy "The Place CommanD - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

And your obviously not doing the teach your dog to ignore other dogs thing, still the basics for "control/Reactivity" can be found here:

Teach your Dog to ignore other dogs.  - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

And my personal tool of choice is the Slip Lead Leash, I do believe the how's and why's of it are covered pretty well here:

Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

Now if you'd done those things "first" and then gone to the "Dog Park" you'd most likely "now" have a well behaved dog. If your still going anyway most likely your task will be greater but a better understanding of where your at and what getting it right looks like ... is always helpful in my view. Oh the sources I listed without links .. are all in those threads ... good luck. 





Dennis. said:


> *And this post is already in the "Aggression Forums"*










Hmm yeah, I got "schooled yet again ... it happens!


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## Dennis. (Sep 27, 2014)

Good points!

@Chip18 Thank you for all the links! It'll take me a minute to read them all but I appreciate it.

I admittedly am not a huge fan of the prong collar but it has been effective. I've never been formally shown to use it but on the lead she's supposed to stay slack. If she applies tension I give it a slight but obvious tug sideways to refocus her and then relax it. 

With the dogs she pulls against it so not super easy to apply but after reading everyone's advice I think I'm correcting too late. I'm going to work at correcting as soon as she starts focusing on the other dogs, well before the barking. 

We'll work for a bit and I'll post how we're doing..

Thanks again everyone for your advice!


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## robrymond (Sep 7, 2014)

Yeah let us know how you get on. We can't use prong collars in the UK as they are banned so I have to work on other methods. It is so so hard to get him to focus when a dog is opposite though. Unless he is distracted by the smell of a bush or they are hidden behind a car!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I've had the same problem with two German Shepherds and it was due to my poor leash handling. I finally paid a private trainer to work with us and it saved our dogs. The advice was to expose them to as many dogs as we could while controlling the environment. If the dog reacts at 20 ft don't get closer than 25 ft. As soon as you see the dog show even the slightest reaction, turn and walk away. Don't ever let the dog get to the point of reacting. Stop it before you get a bark, snarl or a lunge. This works best in an area with escape routes. The trainer said do this every day for six months, and yes, that was a serious statement. If you can go six months preventing your dog from reacting, the problem is solved.


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## robrymond (Sep 7, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> I've had the same problem with two German Shepherds and it was due to my poor leash handling. I finally paid a private trainer to work with us and it saved our dogs. The advice was to expose them to as many dogs as we could while controlling the environment. If the dog reacts at 20 ft don't get closer than 25 ft. As soon as you see the dog show even the slightest reaction, turn and walk away. Don't ever let the dog get to the point of reacting. Stop it before you get a bark, snarl or a lunge. This works best in an area with escape routes. The trainer said do this every day for six months, and yes, that was a serious statement. If you can go six months preventing your dog from reacting, the problem is solved.


Might have to start doing that technique more often. I bet people will think I'm crazy just turning and walking away.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You don't care what anyone else thinks, you want your dog to behave.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Chiming in with the wheel issue. If your trash barrels have wheels, a dolly, a suitcase with wheels, baby doll carriage, lawn mower etc but my all time favorite is walking to the grocery store and my boy and I grab stray carts and put them in the outside holding spot. 

Maybe you haven't thought to use these to help her along.. Oh, and if you do decide to try the shopping cart idea, expect some funny looks but I have never been asked to leave.

My boy had the same issue with wheels in the teen stage. Because most wheels have humans on them or attached to them, I did not put up with that particular issue. It was too important for our quality of life. Just my own thought process at that time.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

robrymond said:


> Yeah let us know how you get on. We can't use prong collars in the UK as they are banned so I have to work on other methods. It is so so hard to get him to focus when a dog is opposite though. Unless he is distracted by the smell of a bush or they are hidden behind a car!


No worries I can use a "Prong Collar"here and I "chose" not to. 

See my thread on the SLL leash and at the end of the "Teach your dog to ignore other dogs" threads the three top approaches are given and "LuvShepherds" approach is given by Ty The Dog Guy. 

I prefer Sean's approach myself. I just go straight at it and "expect" the dog to "Not be acting like a fool!" Except I only use a properly positioned SLL, no PC, and thus far no issues.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dennis. said:


> Good points!
> 
> @Chip18 Thank you for all the links! It'll take me a minute to read them all but I appreciate it.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you have the "correction part" well "correct!" 

But if she is putting her shoulder into it and pulling?? Then it sounds like that is where the problem is?? That should not be happening, see the clips on positioning the "Prong Collar" properly at the sites mentioned. And my first thought would be if she starts to "pull" you stop and wait for her to settle or a slight tug sideways at the first sign of pulling.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

No prong collar for reactive dogs! Prong correction - is a bite on the neck, prong is used to correct something your dog knows well but doesn't want to listen to for some reason, never use it to correct aggressive behaviour.
Out of everything you have described about the doggy park I can construct a picture which tells me that your dog wants you all for herself only. She's nipping other dogs? She simply wants to get rid of them. Your dog doesn't need other dogs, they are a nuisance for her on the playing ground, I'd better stay away from others if I were you, otherwise this doggy park is good only for you and your human conversations with other dog owners, and your dog would rather be somewhere else where no dog can interfere in her frisbee play. 
Your "Hi" to passing people became to be a command for your dog to alert, and this sort of alert is telling them "Stay away from us", you have trained her this yourself, or, better to say - you directed her instinct of a protector. Her instinct and wish to protect is impossible to eliminate, and it would be very wrong to attempt to do so, and if you do - you may lose the bond. At the beginning of training don't ask too much from her.If she barks - don't pay attention to it as long as she walks and heels perfectly. In order to ask your dog "Quiet!" train her to bark on command first. That is easy, especially because she had preliminary lessons already. You may leave this word "Hello!" as a command to start barking. Stretched leash, tightened collar on the neck and you stopping at the object of irritation - makes aggressive reaction stronger. Anything you may have pronounce in a loud voice, especially if "S-stop it!" ( the word has a hissing sound) was read by your dog as an encouragement. Instead, if you can see that she's just about to bark - loosen the leash, say firmly but not loudly "No", murmur to her in a tender relaxed voice, and try to keep her attention on "Heel" command by looking in her eyes not at that person, demand good heeling while moving together and doing no deter from the object of irritation. Ask her to bark on command, and ask her to relax on command.
If you want her to lose her interest in moving wheels - you need a stronger stimuli than the wheels. And that could be a good ball. She needs to see an object in your hand which is capable of fast moving. In absense of her ball her attention turns to something else, or even her imagination finds similarity between a wheel and her frisbee. Play ball on long leash in the area with many bicycles every day, let her understand that they are useless. Walks beside the traffic will help as well. And, if you want to ride bicycle yourself and thus train your dog - it could be better for her to lose interest in moving wheels of others first.


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