# Aggression in the home question



## B&Cgetapup (Nov 7, 2013)

My GSD, Rommel, is about a year and four months old now and has started acting a little different. He has always had a slight food aggression especially the first few days on a new flavor but he has never bitten, just growled a little as if to say leave me alone. He ends up getting bored with flavors or something and then doesn't care as much. The last couple days though a couple incidents happened, one when my girlfriend went to move him from the bed to his kennel he started growling at her and I had to move him. We've never had a problem with him on the bed and except for that still haven't. This morning I was sleeping in and she came home for lunch and went to walk in the room and before the door opened more than an inch he immediately went to the corner of the bed and started growling and snarling and the hair on his entire back was standing up. She backed up and he followed her out in the living room still snarling. It woke me up and I ran out, yelled at him and it took a second or two but then he paid attention and sat down but was still really wary about everything. Now she is getting scared and we are trying to figure out what to do.

Is it just a hormonal thing or is there something we did or didn't do while training that could help with this? It's our first GSD so I'm sure we haven't quite done everything perfect.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

It's called resource guarding,he's telling your girlfriend you belong to him,the bed belongs to him,and whatever else he decides.There are folks with more experience than me who will pitch in with what worked for them I'm sure.What works for many people is implementing NILF(nothing in life is free)He gets nothing unless he's earned it.He must sit or lay quietly until you release him to eat,go out,get in or out of the car,etc.No getting on the bed or furniture unless invited.I would definitely not let him on the bed at all until you can get this managed.Your girlfriend will have to step up and get control too,she makes the decisions,not him.

There's a lot of information about resource guarding and nilf on this site,and others will have various solutions that worked for them.


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## B&Cgetapup (Nov 7, 2013)

We have done nilf with most everything except getting on the bed or couch. But he has to earn his food and going outside, we keep his favorite toys put up and he has to earn playing with them. He has one chew out that he can go chew on by himself. But as far as the bed and couch he has just kinda always been allowed but he knows where my spot is and will move or I will lay on him, (just my head, not whole body) and I've never had a problem at all. He definitely has always obeyed me better than he has her though too. I was starting to wonder if my girlfriend just acts to submissive towards him and he thinks of himself as higher in the pack.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Good,looks like you're on the right track already!Really sounds like your adolescent is feeling his oats and trying to bully your girlfriend.I think you hit the nail on the head,and she'll have to be more assertive.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Not good at all! The fact that it got to this point is not good at all! The fact that it is occurring in the 12 to 18 month range is not a surprise! If you did anything wrong in laying down the ground rules the 12 to 18 month range is when it shows up!

I don't agree with "everything" here but the bottom line is...had you followed this course of action you would not be having these problems!

Leerburg Dog Training | The Groundwork to Establishing Pack Structure with Adult Dogs

Don't press this dog don't grab him by the collar! He needs to sit and wait for everything, you need to reestablish your relationship with this dog!

And needless to say "this" should not be allowed on the furniture! Some dogs don't like people hovering over there food when the eat, fine put the food down and walk away. But an outright display off hostility is never OK! You let it slide and this is the result.

If you never saw this coming...then most likely you are going to need professional help to get this turned around.

Most likely it can be turned around but your going to have become a much better dog trainer than you have been in the past.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

The first link in this post is most likely where you need to start!


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## B&Cgetapup (Nov 7, 2013)

Thank you dogma13!

Chip18 we are wondering if you could give some _constructive_ specifics on where we have "let it slide". 

Some more background to help you understand our household:
-We have had Rommel since he was 8 weeks 
-We live together and have both shared in exercise, play, walking, feeding, potty trips, training, etc. since bringing him home.
-Rommel is intact and we plan to leave him as such knowing that a neuter deprives him of hormones and is not a solution to behavior in many cases.
-We do not hover over the dog when he eats however we are in a smaller apartment for the time being and quarters are tight no matter where we feed. I do have one other spot I would like to try to give him more space. The only occasions in which he growls over the food are if we accidentally brush up against him. He will eat out of both of our laps no problem though. 
-The event in the bedroom this morning and being moved off the bed the one time are the only times this sort of growing/warning has been present. Both Chase and myself move him off the bed/furniture frequently with no problem.
-Rommel does receive commands better from Chase but works nearly as well with Bailey on a daily basis both inside and outside of the house.


I do realize that Rommel gives more authority to Chase and I am working on bettering my "rank" in the pack. Mostly we are concerned with specific methods of reducing his guarding of furniture and food while we work on reshaping our pack structure.

Thank you,
Bailey


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

B&Cgetapup said:


> My GSD, Rommel, is about a year and four months old now and has started acting a little different. He has always had a slight food aggression especially the first few days on a new flavor but he has never bitten, just growled a little as if to say leave me alone.


That right there is ..."letting it slide."

I'm not a pro I made my share of mistakes but that was not one of them. These are not easy dogs! Despite them being in the top five popular dogs in America?? 

My "theory" is that if you do "everything" right in raising one of these guys, then in the 12 to 18 month range, you won't notice anything different! But...if you got "anything wrong"...that's when you will find out!

My mistake was not understanding "rank drive issues in GSD's" my other dogs don't have this. Rocky "decided" at 16 months old and 116 lbs (OS WL/GSD.

That he did not care for being # two out the door! SO he was going to take down Mr BullMasstiff/APBT/Lab [email protected]! And Oh yeah I don't much care for people either!

Zero indication of either problem for 7 months! I never saw it coming, someone on here suggest that my front door dog dash release was most likely the source of the problem.

If you want a "what brand of dog treats will fix my dog answer" I doubt you'll find it here?

It's not simply about resources guarding, there are other issues involved but hey if you want to deal with it one problem at a time:
Two different trainers so pick your poison 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9siVtZyeE7k
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/resource-guarding-treatment-and-prevention


The first step in "fixing" your dogs problems is admitting you made mistakes!


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## B&Cgetapup (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanks for identifying your specific are of concern with the food issues that helps us understand your post.

"methods of reducing his guarding of furniture and food WHILE we work on reshaping our pack structure." 
We will be attempting to improve upon our training issues as a whole, not by pieces. 

We have done a lot of research prior to and since getting our pup and we are the first to admit it is not a breed for everyone. This being our first time with this breed we are also not expecting perfection off the bat. We expect to make mistakes, own up to them, correct and move on. Everyone starts somewhere!

Naturally there is not a "one to help them all fix" with our concerns, just wanted to hear what had helped other people with comparable problems. This community has always had a wealth of knowledge to share. Thank you for all the resources you provided, we will be sure to take a look.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

B&Cgetapup said:


> Thanks for identifying your specific are of concern with the food issues that helps us understand your post.
> 
> "methods of reducing his guarding of furniture and food WHILE we work on reshaping our pack structure."
> We will be attempting to improve upon our training issues as a whole, not by pieces.
> ...


There you go! Now your on your way to "fixing your dog!" None of us are born knowing how to train dogs!

I had 12 years of training pretty much perfect family pets. Boxers, Boxer Pitts, and BullMastif/APBT/Labs, none of that meant crap with my GSD!

I was a good pack leader but...not good enough! He "never" challenged me but I did that "nebulous something wrong in the foundation work" and in the magical 12 to 18 month range...I had a different dog!!??? He decided he was gonna move up in the dog pack structure!!! And oh yeah don't much care for company or people either!!!

As I said he to was a perfect dog (AFIK) then suddenly I had a 116 lbs GSD monster on my hands?? Pretty sure it was the front door thing in my case? I had no idea that was a potential problem??? Someone that had dealt with GSD's for that same ten years...would have know better!

I also say "don't ask yourself what's wrong with this stupid dog??? Ask yourself..."what am I doing wrong??"


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## sourdough44 (Oct 26, 2013)

I gave our 15 m/o female a bone just the other day, nice basted knuckle bone. After she was chewing about two minutes I put my face down by her then took it away for 30 seconds or so. After that I gave it back.

We have all done this off and on since she was young, no problems with any food aggression.

As to aggression with any family members. My method is to nip it early and FIRM. I don't like to play games in that area. Let it be clear what will not be acceptable. I prefer fewer but more serious 'corrections' than a stream of meaningless love taps. Yes, mileage will vary with the next owner.


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## B&Cgetapup (Nov 7, 2013)

So I have been paying attention to Rommel more lately to try and figure out what his deal is. What I've noticed is that, at least to me, he isn't protecting furniture. The only time he seems to growl and take an aggressive stance is when he is spooked while sleeping. The few times he did it prior to us starting this thread was when my girlfriend would come home during our mid morning nap and he would wake up. Last night was the first time he did it to me and I came to bed late (3:30 am) so he had already been sleeping for quite a while and when i turned the hall light off and opened the door he barked a couple times and then started growling. He was not on the bed to begin with nor did he get on it, just stood on the floor. It almost seemed like it took a while for him to realize it was me or what was going on but he never tried to bite or do anything other than growl. While growling he still obeyed when I told him to sit and handshake and everything. But he was still growling and that's what I can't figure out. Other than a few growls about his food on occasion, which we then promptly take away from him until he realizes he doesn't own it, he only persistently growls when he is startled while sleeping. Or at least that's what it seems to me but of course I am by no means a professional dog behaviorist. If anyone else has a theory I'd love to hear it or has anyone else had something similar to this happen.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Chase - when you come home how do you greet Rommel? What is YOUR (and Bailey's) normal behavior towards Rommel when you first greet him?


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## B&Cgetapup (Nov 7, 2013)

He stays in his kennel when we are gone so we have to let him out and then he will go to the living room and we make him sit for attention. Sometimes he tries to jump so we will tell him no and then he will sit.

Now when bailey and rommel are already in the bedroom for the night and I come to bed late I normally sit down on the floor by him and he will lay his head in my lap for rubs and then I will get up and go to sleep. I've been doing that for months and never had an issue with coming to bed late until last night.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Chase and Bailey, I am going to let the more expeinced members here guide you through this aggression issue, but I did want to offer one thing. I am a first time GSD owner, too. I adoped Newlie from a rescue at around the age of two and have had him for two years. I, too, have made a good many mistakes along the way, but from the very first day Newlie came into my house, he has had to sit and wait until I say "OK," before he can eat. I think I saw where you were already practicing that as well. But early on, when Newlie started acting like a jackass, I did work with a trainer who really helped us and that's something to consider. Also, for about a week, I went to a stricter version of NILIF. I gave Newlie's dog food to him only in small handfuls and he had to sit and wait before each one. Just a suggestion, another way to drive the point home that he is not the boss.


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## B&Cgetapup (Nov 7, 2013)

I've actually tried finding a GSD specific trainer to go to for classes and whatnot but unfortunately I haven't found one in our area or I'm just looking in the wrong places.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I would just plan on him being a nervy dog who startles awake and I'd let him sleep in a crate to avoid anything ever happening. I doubt you need a GSD specific trainer B&C, but I'd avoid behaviorist and concentrate on obedience.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

B&Cgetapup said:


> Other than a few growls about his food on occasion, which we then promptly take away from him until he realizes he doesn't own it,


I'm catching up here but this caught my eye! 

With this dog while you work on his issues I hope your not reaching down and snatching his food up!!! 

You order the dog away and then pick up the food! Grabbing his food away is a fight you do not want to have!!

As I said don't know the exact circumstances but in any case this is worth mentioning!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

newlie said:


> I gave Newlie's dog food to him only in small handfuls and he had to sit and wait before each one. Just a suggestion, another way to drive the point home that he is not the boss.


Pretty much I have done the same thing with all my dogs! My dogs all thought it was a great game! 

But this dog...I don't know if he is there yet??


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

sourdough44 said:


> I gave our 15 m/o female a bone just the other day, nice basted knuckle bone. After she was chewing about two minutes I put my face down by her then took it away for 30 seconds or so. After that I gave it back.
> 
> We have all done this off and on since she was young, no problems with any food aggression.


Egads. I'm glad that it's worked out okay for you, but that is not a method I'd advise for anyone else to try. For one thing, putting your face right by your dog's when they have a valued object puts you at risk for a bite. Even if you do randomly take bones away from your dog, please keep your face AWAY while you do it! 

But that can be risky too. For a dog with no tendency towards guarding issues it may not cause a problem, but how do you know if your puppy or young dog has guarding tendencies until suddenly they do? And then you have a problem to fix after the fact, rather than being proactive about preventing issues right from the beginning. You can create issues that never would have been cropped up in the first place, or exacerbate issues that would have been easy to stop if handled properly in the early stages.

I can take away things from my dogs NOW, but that's because I laid the groundwork very early on that I can be trusted not to randomly (and unfairly) take away valued resources. Taking away things that your dog values to teach him that he doesn't need to guard them from you really doesn't make sense if you think about it. If anything, it shows he that he SHOULD guard them from you because they can be taken away at any time, for no reason.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Pretty much I have done the same thing with all my dogs! My dogs all thought it was a great game!
> 
> But this dog...I don't know if he is there yet??


You might be right, Chip. My Newlie used to be, and still is, pretty vocal. He always has liked to voice his opinions about things. Early on, I used to think he was growling, but he never lifted his lip or showed his teeth and over time, I've just come to see that's just him mumbling his opinions!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

CassidysMom ,Agree 100%.


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## B&Cgetapup (Nov 7, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Pretty much I have done the same thing with all my dogs! My dogs all thought it was a great game!
> 
> But this dog...I don't know if he is there yet??



We do make him move away from the food before taking it but there have been occasions where I have taken away a toy or food without doing that first especially when younger and I didn't know as much and there was never an issue. Still better safe than sorry though. He eats out of our hands just fine and doesn't growl at all if we are a part of the whole eating situation like that, the only growling about food is when it's in his bowl and even then it's not terribly common. 

If he is just fearful or startles easily when asleep is there anything we can do to help ease him of that. He is afraid of a few other things like the vacuum cleaner, plastic bags, and my girlfriends cooking lol (he just doesn't like smoke, he'd be a terrible fire rescue dog). During the day if he has a fearful moment he comes and hides behind me or jumps in my lap like a giant baby. Which is why I don't understand why at night when he gets startled he growls at us or why it seems to take so long to realize who we are and stop. Last night it took him easily 5 minutes or so before he stopped. Still the entire time though he would obey my commands all while growling which of course has me even more stumped.

I forgot to mention, if it helps. When he growls he never bares his teeth unless you count when he opens his mouth to let out a bark in the middle of his growls.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> I would just plan on him being a nervy dog who startles awake and I'd let him sleep in a crate to avoid anything ever happening. I doubt you need a GSD specific trainer B&C, but I'd avoid behaviorist and concentrate on obedience.


I don't know if it's nerves, resource guarding or the OP now finds they have a Dominate dog???

But...this is starting to move well past the my dog runs,jumps nips etc,etc! Your trying to find a trainer and that's great but the dog is there and it is what it is! Keep looking but in the mean time...

Frankly this dog is starting to scare the crap out of me! If it were me, I would just start over,just forget the last 16 months because clearly the dog has! 

Look at the "I just got a rescue what do I do! That would be how you could rebuild a bond with this dog.

And more than likely, pretty much everything you are experiencing is here: 

Leerburg | Dealing with the Dominant Dog

Ed Frawley has his fans and detractors but he knows these dogs!

He is where I went when I discovered my GSD had uh...people issues???

I followed his "Who pets my puppy or dog" essay (which is also the way to deal with fearful dogs, it turns outs) and problem solved! 

It's time to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and go back to basics!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

B&Cgetapup said:


> We do make him move away from the food before taking it but there have been occasions where I have taken away a toy or food without doing that first especially when younger and I didn't know as much and there was never an issue. Still better safe than sorry though. He eats out of our hands just fine and doesn't growl at all if we are a part of the whole eating situation like that, the only growling about food is when it's in his bowl and even then it's not terribly common.
> 
> If he is just fearful or startles easily when asleep is there anything we can do to help ease him of that. He is afraid of a few other things like the vacuum cleaner, plastic bags, and my girlfriends cooking lol (he just doesn't like smoke, he'd be a terrible fire rescue dog). During the day if he has a fearful moment he comes and hides behind me or jumps in my lap like a giant baby. Which is why I don't understand why at night when he gets startled he growls at us or why it seems to take so long to realize who we are and stop. Last night it took him easily 5 minutes or so before he stopped. Still the entire time though he would obey my commands all while growling which of course has me even more stumped.
> 
> I forgot to mention, if it helps. When he growls he never bares his teeth unless you count when he opens his mouth to let out a bark in the middle of his growls.


That sounds a bit better so yes most likely fear issues?

Does he walk well on a leash?? That will be important. I would as I posted just now...start over in any case, no harm no foul as it were!


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## B&Cgetapup (Nov 7, 2013)

He walks pretty good on his leash. He used to pull quite a bit but we've broken him of that for the most part, still have more work to do but at least there is evident improvement. When he does start to pull I can correct him easily now and he will stop. Unless he sees a cat or rabbit. Still working on that but it's harder since we don't have a cat to work with so it's only rare occasions that he even sees one.


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