# Intentionally peeing?



## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

Dutch just hit the 9 weeks mark. We've had him a week and he was doing sooooo well. He was getting me to take him out when he needed to pee. We had three or four days without any accidents.

Today he has peed inside twice and pooped once. He hadn't pooped inside since the first day we got him.

I'm extremely frustrated because he pooped inside 10 minutes after I took him outside and spent about 10 minutes walking him around.

He peed earlier about 30 minutes after he went outside and peed, which didn't make any sense to me. 

He JUST peed in practically the same spot on the rug and it's only been maybe an hour or 90 minutes since his last time outside.

What's going on? Is he acting out? He's been a little punk all day. Chewing on the rug. Chewing on the cat stand. Chewing on the couch. I realize this is pretty standard behavior, but today just seems worse than usual.

The biggest difference about today is that it's pouring outside. Does he just not want to pee outside? Anyone have any thoughts on this? I just thought we had turned a corner and now it seems like we're regressing.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

He's getting comfortable get used to it If your not feeding him on a schedule and taking him out on a set schedule I would start now. Pups don't quite know how to tell you it's time yet and he might not even realize it's time till he's midstream kinda like potty training a kid. Set a schedule of every hour taking him out and staying out till he goes chanting go potty and treating when he does. If you notice sniffing take him out again, and crate him when you can't watch him. The best way to potty train is to avoid accidents at all costs though of course they'll have a few you have to be patient. Also clean accidents really well with an enzyme busting cleaner to remove the scent or he'll smell himself on the carpet and think aw yeah right here


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

It takes 21 days (I think that was the number) with no accidents to say your dog is house trained. He is young and no he is not acting out, dogs do not do that. It is possible he does not like the rain but he needs to learn rain or shine he must go out.

I hate rainy days, Max is 10 months so he will go out to potty but there is no playing. He is like a school kid on a rainy day, drives us crazy!


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

Zoeys mom said:


> He's getting comfortable get used to it If your not feeding him on a schedule and taking him out on a set schedule I would start now. Pups don't quite know how to tell you it's time yet and he might not even realize it's time till he's midstream kinda like potty training a kid. Set a schedule of every hour taking him out and staying out till he goes chanting go potty and treating when he does. If you notice sniffing take him out again, and crate him when you can't watch him. The best way to potty train is to avoid accidents at all costs though of course they'll have a few you have to be patient. Also clean accidents really well with an enzyme busting cleaner to remove the scent or he'll smell himself on the carpet and think aw yeah right here


We can't crate train. We've been trying. He freaks out. I barely close the door while he's eating or working on a bone and he starts to get worked up. He bites down on the wiring and starts pulling. I've tried sitting next to him. I've tried ignoring him. I don't know what to do. I don't want him to hurt himself.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

Keep trying, your letting him make the rules. Try covering the crate and the minute he is quiet let him out and throw a party! I thought Max was never going to get there but now he loves his crate. Each pup is different when it comes to crate training.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

take him out more often. don't wait untill he gives
you a signal that you miss read. 90 minutes between breaks might to long for your pup. if your pup is going in the house and you're home
that means you're not watching him closely.


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

vat said:


> Keep trying, your letting him make the rules. Try covering the crate and the minute he is quiet let him out and throw a party! I thought Max was never going to get there but now he loves his crate. Each pup is different when it comes to crate training.


Shouldn't I be worried that he's going to break a tooth or hurt himself?


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> take him out more often. don't wait untill he gives
> you a signal that you miss read. 90 minutes between breaks might to long for your pup. if your pup is going in the house and you're home
> that means you're not watching him closely.


We were taking him out every 2 hours, sometimes more, but at least every two hours and it was working fine until today.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Every hour on the hour until he's older and with bedtime being the exception. When you can't watch him crate him despite his tantrum he will learn if you ignore him no matter how it breaks your heart- he'll be fineIf you refuse to crate train him because he throws a tantrum he will quickly learn to be rude in other situations because you are reinforcing whining, yipping, and barking get him what he wants.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Zoeys mom said:


> Every hour on the hour until he's older and with bedtime being the exception. When you can't watch him crate him despite his tantrum he will learn if you ignore him no matter how it breaks your heart- he'll be fineIf you refuse to crate train him because he throws a tantrum he will quickly learn to be rude in other situations because you are reinforcing whining, yipping, and barking get him what he wants.


I agree with this. Some pups throw some pretty massive tantrums, but you just have to ignore it and let it go on. I usually find it best if I leave the room, so there's no audience for the tantrum. Small puppies sleep alot, so if I can get my pup out for several hours and really wear them out...chances are the tantrum will not be long. When I picked up my most recent puppy, he was awake the drive home, We took him to dinner with us, played with him in the yard, and right before bed put him in the crate with a bully stick. He pitched a fit for about 20 minutes. Then he fell asleep. Within 3 days he was good to go. As long as you NEVER reinforce the tantrum...the dog will adjust. My dogs are all very content in their crates. 

Leerburg | How to Housebreak A Puppy


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Three days was all it ever took me as well and we use the wear out method too My dogs get in their crates often when I'm home during the day to sleep with the door wide open or just chill out. We don't have crates in our bedroom for this reason as well and used the tough love method which left us with two awesome dogs who do not bark, whine, or yip to get their way


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> Shouldn't I be worried that he's going to break a tooth or hurt himself?


They're not that dumb.... And if they are, the teeth grow back (but only once). 
The crate tantrums are also standard puppy procedure to get into your bed at night, don't fall for it


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## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> Dutch just hit the 9 weeks mark. We've had him a week and he was doing sooooo well. He was getting me to take him out when he needed to pee. We had three or four days without any accidents.
> 
> Today he has peed inside twice and pooped once. He hadn't pooped inside since the first day we got him.
> 
> ...


same thing is happening to me... 1st 3 days w/ only 1 accident, and now he seems to pee at will, i take him out exactly every 2 hours (timer) so i lessened the time and still..., earlier my timer went off, i stood up to get him, and he started to piddle... i never scold him for it, but take him outside and praise/treat him for going outside, i also spent about 10 minutes outside playing w/ him waiting for him to go pee/poop and he did, then 20 minutes later he decided to release the floodgate 
not sure whats going on today, but he is only 7 weeks old so im not too worried about it... on the plus side he hasn't pooped in the house yet


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

Everything I read here is in contradiction to what I read elsewhere. It seems like you all say I should just toss him in and let him adjust. But all the crate training sites say that's bad.



> Crate training can take days or weeks, depending on your dog's age, temperament and past experiences. It's important to keep two things in mind while crate training:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Crate Training : The Humane Society of the United States

I'm so conflicted.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Everyone does it different but for me crate training gradually isn't an option. I have to work, run around with the kids, and have a life outside my home like most. I can't simply not go anywhere the first month of a pups life to get them used to a crate. Yes you should leave toys and treats in the crate with the pup and even something that smells like you to make them more comfortable though nothing that can be destroyed and choked on. However, if you take your pup out of the crate because he's throwing a tantrum he will throw a tantrum every time he's put in there. So for the nights he has to suck it up and during the day you can practice making the crate fun by throwing treats in there and leaving the door open, feeding them in there, and locking them in for only short periods while you throw some laundry in, or vacuum. In my experience all pups freak about the crate and trying to get them to be calm when they can see and hear you is impossible. Do some research on the HSUS- their not so squeaky clean and animal loving


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

Zoeys mom said:


> Everyone does it different but for me crate training gradually isn't an option. I have to work, run around with the kids, and have a life outside my home like most. I can't simply not go anywhere the first month of a pups life to get them used to a crate. Yes you should leave toys and treats in the crate with the pup and even something that smells like you to make them more comfortable though nothing that can be destroyed and choked on. However, if you take your pup out of the crate because he's throwing a tantrum he will throw a tantrum every time he's put in there. So for the nights he has to suck it up and during the day you can practice making the crate fun by throwing treats in there and leaving the door open, feeding them in there, and locking them in for only short periods while you throw some laundry in, or vacuum. In my experience all pups freak about the crate and trying to get them to be calm when they can see and hear you is impossible. Do some research on the HSUS- their not so squeaky clean and animal loving


So you would say I should just toss him in tonight and let him get over it?


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## liv (Sep 1, 2010)

I think that most people here try to make it a positive experience as much as possible, hiding treats in the crate with the door open, feeding/watering in the crate, etc. However, your puppy has now figured out that if he pitches a fit, he gets out. It's like magic! So, it you are probably going to have to wait out a few tantrums, as hard as it is. My girl would wail when in the crate during the day (she was always okay at night), so I practiced it just sitting beside the crate and as soon as she was quiet for a couple of seconds I would either let her out or drop treats in through the side. She never got out when she cried, unless there was a good chance she needed to go outside - in which case, I picked her up, carried her outside, she did her business (or not) and then I carried her back to her crate. Then if she was quiet she got to come out to play. Naturally, I gradually upped the time she needed to be quiet before she got out or treated. Crate training is the best thing you can do for your dog! Mine now pitches a fit if her crate door happens to be closed and she isn't in it!


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I sure would My lab cried for over 4 hours the first night....our neighbors actually called the cops- true story. Next night was 2+ hours and no cop, 3rd night a little less than an hour, and 4th night maybe 10 minutes. This doesn't mean don't work on crate training during the day though to help the transition. Feed him in there with door open, toss in treats, and get in it yourself to play and snuggle your pup. Make it positive, treat him when he goes in on his own, and when you lure him in with treats and toys- just NEVER let him out while he is whining, chewing, barking, and spazzing.

You will cut down on the expense of him destroying your house because the chewing stage is coming down fast upon you, he will housebreak faster, he will be happy and safe when you have to leave during the day, and he will associate his crate as his place he can go to when he wants comfort. Zoe hates people in the house and after her initial freak out on the new person will often go in there to feel good and safe. It's not mean nor does it cause them to hate the crate- just run him now, pop him in with a toy, and go upstairs. Don't check on him, talk to him, look at him, or give him any attention especially while he's acting out- if you do your giving him a response he'll deem as positive. It's going to take the better part of this week and it's going to be hard on you, but it's a great chance to teach him early you control his space and freedom in a positive way


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Boaz was doing something similar. He'd run up to the top of the stairs and make a little puddle up there, like he was marking. But being so young, I wondered about it. He did it a few times in the exact same spot, and I recently had the carpet cleaned thoroughly up there. He stopped peeing inside a long time ago, thankfully. I think my little guy was just a little spunky. He's very good at running outside, but just a few times put his mark on that one spot.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The pup is nine weeks old.

He is not peeing intentionally to tick you off. Sorry. 

He is a baby, and he just doesn't get it yet. 

Are you taking a yummy treat out with you when you potty outside? Do you use your happy voice, saying What a good boy, you when pee pee OUTside? Stress the word OUTside? 

When he starts to potty inside, do you scoop him up saying, Eh, OUTside to pee pee? Then take him outside, let him finish and praise the dickens out of him for doing so and give him the yummy treat?

Are you paying constant attention to your puppy when he is loose?

Are you cleaning up pee spots with an enzyme cleaner, thouroughly?

Are you cleaning up accidents without any fan fare, of frustration leaking out at the puppy?


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## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

selzer said:


> The pup is nine weeks old.
> 
> He is not peeing intentionally to tick you off. Sorry.
> 
> ...


well im glad im doing something right  everything stated above ive been doing... definatly understanding he is a pup and knowing accidents are accidents, so i roll up a newspaper really tight and hit myself with it :wild:


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

selzer said:


> The pup is nine weeks old.
> 
> He is not peeing intentionally to tick you off. Sorry.
> 
> ...


Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

and Yes.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> Shouldn't I be worried that he's going to break a tooth or hurt himself?


No, keep trying the small steps. Your home all day right? You have time to spend, as someone else said sit by the crate and the second he is quiet drop in a treat and make a big deal of it. Believe me Max was the same way and now you would never know it. Again try covering him and see if he will quiet for a second.

Its all about timing DO NOT let him out when he is pitching a fit, its like giving your kids a reward when they have done something wrong. You end up with spoiled brats!

I actually had to sleep on the floor next to Max the first few nights. Did that with both my pups and it helped them.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Nine weeks is still young. It is important to catch him at it, shout NO and carry him outside then praise the heck out of him when he performs outside. The first few weeks can be H-E-L-L. But they are the investment you (unknowingly?) agreed upon when you got a puppy. When you shout NO it doesn't have to be an angry one, just to distract him, hopefully make him stop and let him know you don't want that... then get him outside. Sorry for repeating myself but it works. As for the crate training, you might want to leave the house and let him sort himself out for a half hour or so. Most puppies protest to the crate but, as stated above, they get used to it and realize it's not so bad. 
Crate training can be a sanity saver and it is good for the puppy to get some alone time.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

take him out more often. when my pup came home
at 9 weeks old we took him out every 15 minutes.
we slowly worked our way up to hours. we went from
15 minutes to a 1/2 hour to 45 minutes to a hour
and so on. whenever he woke up and after playing
we took him out immediately. my pup was house broken
in 10 days with 10 accidents. 5 of the accidents
happened on the 10 day.

we use to crate our pup many times
during the day. he was crated for
5 to 10 minutes at a time and then let out.
sometimes we stayed in the room with him
and sometimes we left the room and the house.



PDXDeutschhund said:


> We were taking him out every 2 hours, sometimes more, but at least every two hours and it was working fine until today.


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

We crated him last night, all night. Put him in at midnight, took him outside every two hours. Let him out and gave him breakfast at 7. Man he pitched a fit last night. It's not whimpering. It's not crying. It's screaming and howling. The little guy has some lungs on him. There were some chunks of quiet, but it pretty much went on all night. 

We're going to try again tonight. It was easy to get him in the first time with a kong... it got harder after that. He didn't really want to be in there.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sometimes a good raw meaty bone to work on, that he gets only inside the crate works wonders. The pup will literally fall asleep mid chew.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

selzer said:


> Sometimes a good raw meaty bone to work on, that he gets only inside the crate works wonders. The pup will literally fall asleep mid chew.


Excellent idea. Just make sure not much fat on it or he will get the trots.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> We crated him last night, all night. Put him in at midnight, took him outside every two hours. Let him out and gave him breakfast at 7. Man he pitched a fit last night. It's not whimpering. It's not crying. It's screaming and howling. The little guy has some lungs on him. There were some chunks of quiet, but it pretty much went on all night.
> 
> We're going to try again tonight. It was easy to get him in the first time with a kong... it got harder after that. He didn't really want to be in there.


I promise they get over it. Like Selzer said, special treats they only get in their crate really help. It's a fairly natural response for a puppy that's had free reign of the house to pitch a full on fit. As far as they know they're trapped. A trapped puppy screams until Mom comes to help it. If he can see you he may not understand why you're not getting him out (especially if you've done it before). Maybe you didn't hear him?? 

Hang in there.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

"It's not whimpering. It's not crying. It's screaming and howling. The little guy has some lungs on him. There were some chunks of quiet, but it pretty much went on all night. "

My last dog was like that. I feared the neighbors would think I was beating her. My kids were mad at me for being so 'mean'. But she got over it pretty quickly when she learned that she could not control when she left the crate and she came to love being in there, going in on her own .... to her 'cave'.


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

selzer said:


> Sometimes a good raw meaty bone to work on, that he gets only inside the crate works wonders. The pup will literally fall asleep mid chew.


Oh we give him a lamb knucklebone from time to time. He loves it. He loves it so much that he will work on that sucker for 45 minutes or more. I've done all the little things. He eats in there. He gets treats in there. We only give him the bones in there. Doesn't stop the fact that he gets pretty intense separation anxiety.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

He is only getting intense because first off he does not like the crate then second he has now learned that you will let him out if he pitches a fit. Hang in there you are doing the right thing and will be happier for it later, trust us.


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

vat said:


> He is only getting intense because first off he does not like the crate then second he has now learned that you will let him out if he pitches a fit. Hang in there you are doing the right thing and will be happier for it later, trust us.


He's really not diggin the crate today. I've tried to feed him in there and he just isn't eating. 

I took him to a puppy romp though and he's exhausted from not getting any sleep last night so I'm thinking he's just really tired.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

stick to your guns, he will be fine if you do not over react or break down and let him out when he is carrying on.


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## liv (Sep 1, 2010)

Stick with it! This kind of thing always gets worse before it gets better - he's going to think that the crying worked last time, and it's not working yet, so I'll have to go louder. Then they'll know to let me out. My breeder slays told me it takes 2 weeks of never compromising to break learned behaviors like that (same with begging for table scraps etc) and if you do it once to start the two weeks over. If you occasionally give in it's even worse, because then it becomes a random reward, so they're always thinking "if I really push it maybe this time I'll get what I want."


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

So here's my question... if we're crating at night, we still have to let him out to go potty. Does he associate that with "winning" even if he's going right back in?


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> So here's my question... if we're crating at night, we still have to let him out to go potty. Does he associate that with "winning" even if he's going right back in?


No. I don't think so. 

The important thing is to be sure not to play/give attention to him when he's out. Usually when I have to get up in the middle of the night with puppy I am bleary eyed and cranky to start with. I pick up the puppy, take him out, stand in one spot or do the slow circle thing. I don't pet the puppy, I don't make eye contact with the puppy, I don't talk to the puppy...except to praise him for going potty...and then I pick the puppy back up, trudge back upstairs, put the puppy in the crate with a treat, drop my hand back by the crate and attempt to go to sleep again.


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

So you don't praise them after you open the gate? Last night I waited until he calmed down every time I let him out, praised him, took him out to pee, put him back in and went back to bed. 



JKlatsky said:


> No. I don't think so.
> 
> The important thing is to be sure not to play/give attention to him when he's out. Usually when I have to get up in the middle of the night with puppy I am bleary eyed and cranky to start with. I pick up the puppy, take him out, stand in one spot or do the slow circle thing. I don't pet the puppy, I don't make eye contact with the puppy, I don't talk to the puppy...except to praise him for going potty...and then I pick the puppy back up, trudge back upstairs, put the puppy in the crate with a treat, drop my hand back by the crate and attempt to go to sleep again.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Your doing fine don't sweat the small stuff By this time next week his tantrums may very well be over or if anything he'll wimper for 5-10 minutes. It's worse for you because you didn't put your foot down on day 1 when he didn't understand any rules in your house. Now he thinks he doesn't have to be in the crate because you taught him he could get out. Now your breaking the rules and making him stay in which is naturally confusing. A few more days of you being firm with making him sleep there and he'll finally get it


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## liv (Sep 1, 2010)

I did exactly as the previous poster did. Picked her up, carried her out, quiet praise and a treat for going potty, then picked her up and carried her inside and popped her into her crate with another treat. If it gets to be fun, then they'll be wanting to go out over and over and over...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

lamb bone might be ok for a pup. i wouldn't
give one to an older dog. i wouldn't give one to my pup.
i think they're to soft.



PDXDeutschhund said:


> Oh we give him a lamb knucklebone from time to time. He loves it. He loves it so much that he will work on that sucker for 45 minutes or more. I've done all the little things. He eats in there. He gets treats in there. We only give him the bones in there. Doesn't stop the fact that he gets pretty intense separation anxiety.


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

Zoeys mom said:


> Your doing fine don't sweat the small stuff By this time next week his tantrums may very well be over or if anything he'll wimper for 5-10 minutes. It's worse for you because you didn't put your foot down on day 1 when he didn't understand any rules in your house. Now he thinks he doesn't have to be in the crate because you taught him he could get out. Now your breaking the rules and making him stay in which is naturally confusing. A few more days of you being firm with making him sleep there and he'll finally get it


I wish I had put him in the crate on the first night instead of sleeping on the couch with him just below me. Now he's got separation anxiety and the job is that much tougher. With that said, we only put him in the crate a couple times before last night. Mostly we were trying the slower method, but it just takes too darn long.

Oh, and on the lamb knuckle bone, it seems like it's mostly flesh and cartilage around a joint. Once he works all that off, we throw it away. I don't want him chewing on the harder bone. It was recommended by the shop keeper at the Holistic store that we go to. You guys don't think it's a good idea? What would you use instead? I heard the cartilage is good for him.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> So you don't praise them after you open the gate? Last night I waited until he calmed down every time I let him out, praised him, took him out to pee, put him back in and went back to bed.


If you praise him at all (which I don't usually at night) it should be when he is in the crate. Dogs are very present minded...if you are praising him when he comes out of his crate...well you are rearding him for being out of the crate, not in the crate. If you want to praise and reward him for being quiet in his crate, I would praise and pop a treat through the crate and then walk away again and NOT let him out. Also just being let out of the crate is a reward, he doesn't need an additional dose of praise.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

Agree, only praise him when he is quiet by tossing in a treat and maybe using the phrase good quiet. That is how I did it and it took about a week. You are already making progress if he is giving you even a minute of quiet. Stick to it and remember with dogs it is either black or white, yes or no. if you bend the rules at all they do not understand that and it makes training that much harder.


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## liv (Sep 1, 2010)

Hope last night went better for you!! I've been dealing with my foster squealing when I put him in the crate (and he was already crate trained - just testing boundaries) and today is the first time he didn't make a peep, but it's taken a week! You'll get there!


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

Last night he was a little better. At times he actually quieted down. It sucked that I had to let him out to go pee because he was quietly working on his kong.

And after he went back in, which wasn't easy, he started crying again. It's really difficult to get him back in that crate after I left him out.


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## Skotty009 (Oct 6, 2010)

Skotty doesn't like it in his crate either but I lure him into his crate with treats and toys. The first night we had him I didn't even have a crate and we stuck him in a large laundry basket just enough to fit him a very little room. We stuck a pillow and blanket in there with him hoping he would not pee or push the basket over while we were sleeping. Now he fusses in his crate just a few times a day but when he does my 2yr old daughter runs over to him and talk to him to calm him down. I tried letting him run free in the house hoping I can get the potty training thing down but we have had way too many accedents. So I will have to do the tough love action. It's not very hard for me as I have 3 kids under the age of 3 and have learned to do alot of tough love.


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