# Thoughts on the Aggression forum



## gsdrodman (Nov 20, 2011)

Just some advice. I've been a lurker here a while and wanted to say something, with regards to the Aggression forum. I see a lot of posts here about people already assuming what's wrong with their dog. (fear aggression, dog aggression, resource guarding). I also see a lot of responses to these posts.

Let me stress that I hope a behaviorist has made this diagnosis and not yourself, a Petsmart trainer or some wacko on the street. In order to diagnose human psychological issues, one is required to have formal training and experience (and credentials). What makes people think it would be any different for our K9 friends? Just because they are dogs, does not mean things are plain, simple and obvious.

Any good behaviorist will also tell you, there is no way a diagnosis can be made online. Even if you describe something over the phone, there is no way to really diagnose it, without the behaviorist being onsite. Believe me, they can see a million things, the untrained eye cannot. And just because you had a similar sounding issue to another poster, does not mean you have enough knowledge to address their issue. It is a nice thought, but can do more harm than good.

If you are having an issue with your dog that is preventing you from performing wanted activities together, then consult a professional behaviorist with the proper experience and credentials. Speak to past clients of his and do your research. 

Once you open your eyes, it's amazing the BS you can see. I don't believe anyone on this forum has the credentials or experience to post some of the things I have been reading. And if they did, they certainly would only tell you to consult a professional and to get off of the message board.


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## Razzle J.Dazzle (Sep 8, 2011)

I would hope that most users of this forum take what they read with a grain of salt and not as gospel. Not everyone can afford a behavior specialist for their dogs, so they come to this forum and get what they come for....advice....some good...some bad. Either way, they are at least showing some sort of responsibility and care enough about their dog to do something about the issues they might be having.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

gsdrodman said:


> Once you open your eyes, it's amazing the BS you can see. I don't believe anyone on this forum has the credentials or experience to post some of the things I have been reading. And if they did, they certainly would only tell you to consult a professional and to get off of the message board.


Actually, most of the replies I see regarding a question of aggression DO urge the OP to consult a trainer or behaviorist. And I see a lot of people saying something to the effect of "Since I'm not there to see the behavior, I can't really diagnose..." etc.

I take it you are a behaviorist/trainer? Instead of jumping in telling everyone what they're doing wrong as your first post, why don't you try helping folks out?


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

> And if they did, they certainly would only tell you to consult a professional and to get off of the message board.


I really hate it when people say thing like this. If everyone did this, then what would the point of a message board be in the first place? 
Same thing goes for when you ask a question and someone replies with "Google it". Drives me nuts. 
It's nice to hear stories of people having the same issues or had the same issues that you are going through, whether it's aggression, health or whatever. THAT is the point of a message board.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

It's the internet. That's the inherent risk...and entire purpose.

Just as someone shouldn't claim to have the "all emcompassing" answers, anyone who takes what they read on the internet as gospel is silly.

And most of the responses I see to true "aggression" issues (not: "OMG MY 10 WEEK OLD PUPPY IS ATTACKING ME!") recommend seeing a professional.

FYI, though: there are quite a few very experienced people on this forum whether rescue peopel specializing in behavior issues, trainers, or breeders.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Ummm welcome to the forum! Way to come in with a bang! :rofl::happyboogie:


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

gsdrodman said:


> Just some advice. I've been a lurker here a while and wanted to say something, with regards to the Aggression forum. I see a lot of posts here about people already assuming what's wrong with their dog. (fear aggression, dog aggression, resource guarding). I also see a lot of responses to these posts.
> 
> Let me stress that I hope a behaviorist has made this diagnosis and not yourself, a Petsmart trainer or some wacko on the street. In order to diagnose human psychological issues, one is required to have formal training and experience (and credentials). What makes people think it would be any different for our K9 friends? Just because they are dogs, does not mean things are plain, simple and obvious.
> 
> ...


Blah, blah, blah, blah......


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well there's been a few nutjobs on here that we could tell right away were nutjobs and didn't need a professional to diagnose that)) (I'm talking people

I think if you read threads in their entirety, the majority DO recommend a behaviorist, many people, however, can't afford one so they are looking for fixes on the net.

I do agree, that there can be loads of misinformation out there, and we aren't "there" to see exactly what's going on..BUT there is also alot of GOOD information here, and if posters are smart (and I don't think we get to many real dummies), they will take away different ideas and use what may work for them.

In the end whether it's health related or training related, the best thing to do is seek out professionals in your area. 

By the way are you a dog trainer or behaviorist???


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Yep. Lots of B.S.

Like a lot of what you said OP.


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## King&Skylar (Jun 3, 2010)

My pup was reactive from when she was 5-11 months old. I went to 2 behaviorists, 2 vets, and 3 training classes (with different instructors) none of their training methods/ behavior modifications worked- came here, got suggestions to try LAT and BAT training- tried it, BAT worked better than any of the BS the "real experts" told me.


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Freestep said:


> I take it you are a behaviorist/trainer? Instead of jumping in telling everyone what they're doing wrong as your first post, why don't you try helping folks out?


Why... because then he wouldn't get PAID, of course!!! 



chelle said:


> Ummm welcome to the forum! Way to come in with a bang! :rofl::happyboogie:


My thoughts exactly.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

gsdrodman said:


> Just some advice. I've been a lurker here a while and wanted to say something, with regards to the Aggression forum. I see a lot of posts here about people already assuming what's wrong with their dog. (fear aggression, dog aggression, resource guarding). I also see a lot of responses to these posts.
> 
> Let me stress that I hope a behaviorist has made this diagnosis and not yourself, a Petsmart trainer or some wacko on the street. In order to diagnose human psychological issues, one is required to have formal training and experience (and credentials). What makes people think it would be any different for our K9 friends? Just because they are dogs, does not mean things are plain, simple and obvious.
> 
> ...


I'm actually not necessarily against what you've said at all, but what would your suggestion be? Shut down the Aggression forum? I once posted there about a behavior and was very quickly informed it was most likely not aggression at all, but fear. It was true and very beneficial for me to have it pointed out. If I would've had to take the time and expense to get a behaviorist to diagnose that, we'd be that much farther set back.

So, I mean, there's a place for it, but as other posters said, it is the Internet and you must know to weed through things for their worth. 

Similar to the Health forum. Who can "diagnose" over the Internet? Pretty tough to do, but you can get ideas on which direction to go. Information gathering only, certainly not a replacement for a Vet visit.

And yeah, I so had to giggle that this was the thread you started on your first post. Way to get everyone's attention.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Business must be slow.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

And who are you?

If you'd actually read any of the aggression threads, you'd have noted several suggest seeking a behavorist or a trainer to help with problems. Some offer suggestions. Not everyone has the money to seek a behavorist or a trainer. There are a bunch of people on this forum who have experience with dealing with fear aggression, actual aggression, same sex aggression, ect. Who the heck are you to come on here and basically put out that we're a bunch of idiots? There are people on this board who are heavily involved with training and rescue and DEALING WITH AGGRESSION!!! Pay attention to the comments on those aggression threads you're saying we're all stupid on. YOU might learn something.


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## pfitzpa1 (Apr 26, 2011)

I think the Agression forum is extremely helpful. I pick up lots of useful information reading the various posts, not always about fixing the problems but more about triggers for agressive behavior and conditions that sometimes cause normally sweet dogs to exhibit agression. In a few cases it's obvious that the owners need fixing more than the dogs do  
In many cases the discussions and advice offer sound approaches to dealing with agression and I would have no problem making a decision to follow a suggestion from the forum (one that I felt was practical and reasonable) with my dogs.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Seems the OP is confusing tips & advice with diagnosis.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Odd perspective from the OP - mine is actually the opposite. I see people suggest contacting a behaviorist for stuff _all the time_ that I personally don't think are huge issues. Maybe not something the person is capable of dealing with on their own, but a good trainer would be sufficient to help them work through it. 

Why would you need a professional behaviorist to diagnose resource guarding? Rescue people deal with this sort of thing all the time, they know how to recognize it and what to do about it. People with multi-dog households often do too. Reactivity is extremely common in the breed, and it's not usually that difficult to tell if aggressive behavior is fear based - again, rescue people deal with these and other issues all the time.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Amazing how some of the MANY trainers/behaviorist I interviewed for Woolf that had the 'training, experience and the credentials' only suggestion for him was pts. Having another of these trained, experienced and credentialed saying we were handling it all wrong and instead of getting him out of a situation instead we should pull him over to meet the dog. 

Op, it's the claims such as yours that ONLY those that are trained and credentialed is bs. Real world practical experience is a lot more valuable then some of those that you suggest are the only ones who can evaluate. 

*IF* you are a trainer or a behaviorist then jump into the aggression forum with your expertise. It would be welcomed, heard and investigated just as everyone else's is

If I can take some of what I read here and it helps with Woolf, you bet I will. And the same goes if I can share something I've done with Woolf and it helps somebody else, I'll do it again.

You are the one who should open their eyes and see this forum for what it is.

Welcome to the forum, you've definitely made an impression.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

a behaviourist can be anything from the newby-trainer type who proclaims being an expert , (know some in the "neighbourhood") to the highly educated Phd ethologist such as a McConnell. It is a largely unregulated field.
Even in the paper credentialled there are some outright stoopid solutions -- get into closet with the dog if dog frightened of thunder , pat and praise if dog barks and lunges --- exact opposite of what should be done .

Experts? Tell me how many times have people recieved really good dietary advice from their vet ? 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Odd perspective from the OP - mine is actually the opposite. I see people suggest contacting a behaviorist for stuff _all the time_ that I personally don't think are huge issues. Maybe not something the person is capable of dealing with on their own, but a good trainer would be sufficient to help them work through it.
> 
> Why would you need a professional behaviorist to diagnose resource guarding? Rescue people deal with this sort of thing all the time, they know how to recognize it and what to do about it. People with multi-dog households often do too. Reactivity is extremely common in the breed, and it's not usually that difficult to tell if aggressive behavior is fear based - again, rescue people deal with these and other issues all the time.


Yes. :thumbup:

Also for every trainer/behaviorist, there will be a large number of the same who disagree with each other. Not unlike the forum.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd rather view 10 opinions/experiences than 1 behaviorists viewpoint.
Experience with certain issues will help in problem solving more than someone that may speculate on how to handle an issue that they have never dealt with. 
My first GSD was a dream to have. Never a problem so my learning *behavior issue problems* from him was nil. He was a great family companion and missed dearly.
My 2nd one however~ made me step up as a handler/owner to manage her issues. 
If I went with _the_ one behaviorist that was recommended to me, she would have ended up euth'd or at a shelter without my dedication to her aggression/ management. Maturity mellowed her big-time, so she would have been wasted early on if she was in a place that wasn't dedicated to helping her-or was intimidated by her actions.
This site, with several heads put together, helped me to manage her quirky stages and deal with her on my own. This was before the board changed to new ownership... the members are still actively helpful with health and behavioral tips on another board and I value their knowledge and forever am grateful to their tips and advice. 
If my problem dog would have been as easy as the first one, I don't know if I would have ever learned what I have. I am grateful for her quirks/issues, but surely wish she would be like that first one so we could do more to fulfill her potential. 
I can help others with my experience now, but don't push anything on anyone, just share my experiences~nothing more. I see nothing harmful in that, and am thankful for what I learned from the aggression threads when I needed help.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Interesting this person has not responded to the first and only post they made on here.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Twyla said:


> Interesting this person has not responded to the first and only post they made on here.


 
troll


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Best to ignore people like this. Coming onto a forum-not greeting properly and putting their nose up and delivering a condescending message and then not even coming back to comment.


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## Rexy (Jun 4, 2011)

gsdrodman said:


> Just some advice. I've been a lurker here a while and wanted to say something, with regards to the Aggression forum. I see a lot of posts here about people already assuming what's wrong with their dog. (fear aggression, dog aggression, resource guarding). I also see a lot of responses to these posts.
> 
> Let me stress that I hope a behaviorist has made this diagnosis and not yourself, a Petsmart trainer or some wacko on the street. In order to diagnose human psychological issues, one is required to have formal training and experience (and credentials). What makes people think it would be any different for our K9 friends? Just because they are dogs, does not mean things are plain, simple and obvious.
> 
> ...


Animal behaviourists would be the last people I would recommend assess GSD aggression issues, most where I live down under are idiots. A good K9 or Schutzhund trainer have seen all the typical traits of good dogs and bad and understand the breed well. Behaviourists here are not required hold any formal qualifications either, anyone can claim to be one, good luck??.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Hope the OP (GSDRodman) comes back to the forum to comment on this thread he started. I think there's alot of good info.. (but what do I know  )

:wild:


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