# Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candidate)



## Beverly0223

<span style='font-size: 11pt'><span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>*<span style="color: #6600CC"><span style='font-family: Courier New'>Sugar is looking for a new owner who will appreciate her intelligence and Agility and Great "Eager-to-Please" Happy Personality!! She is a Wonderful dog, but with her high prey drive, wants my chickens.... BAD! She needs to be spayed is 2&1/2 years old and GREAT with Kids and other Dogs. Cats??? Chickens.... NO!Contact me Beverly at [email protected] or at 989 873 8590. Thanks and BE BLESSED!!
Beverly G..</span></span>*</span></span>


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## CWhite

Beverly,

Do you have nay photographs? If so, can you post them?

Here is a link on instructions on posting: 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...ge=1#Post799247


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## Beverly0223

Okay!! Let's see if it works?? Night!!
<a href="http://s817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/beverly0223/?action=view&current=SugarandNoodle.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/beverly0223/SugarandNoodle.jpg" border="0" alt="Sugar and Noodle"></a>


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## Beverly0223

<a href="http://s817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/beverly0223/?action=view&current=SugarandNoodle.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/beverly0223/SugarandNoodle.jpg" border="0" alt="Sugar and Noodle"></a> 


Hmmm. not wotking?? Way too tired!! maybe tomorrow!! Night and Blessings!! Bev


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## Beverly0223

last try.... tonight!! 

<a href="http://s817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/beverly0223/?action=view&current=SugarandNoodle.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/beverly0223/SugarandNoodle.jpg" border="0" alt="Sugar and Noodle"></a>


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## Jax08

It's the wrong code. You need to copy the one that starts with 

I believe it's the bottom code below the picture.

[img]http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/beverly0223/SugarandNoodle.jpg


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## Jax08

Have you done anything with her to rectify the chicken chasing? Redirecting her? Locking the chickens up?


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## Beverly0223

Thanks for Posting the picture for me!! The poor chickens spent the whole fall/winter indoors. She jumped the fence and got the barn door open and it was a horrifying experience for my kids! So I made the fence taller. She still got over it. I feel it is as unfair to the chickens to be locked up as it is for the dog to be on a tether! At least she gets sunshine!! I just know there is SOMEONE who will APPRECIATE her athletic abilities! Minus the chickens I doubt she would try a fence. But we love our chickens too! I just don't have the kind of time required and it's hard on my nerves!!


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## Jax08

Have you tried contacting the rescues and seeing if they will do a courtesy post for you? I would definitely start there.


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## Beverly0223

No but I've been emailing Agility training Centers hoping for a bite! I guess that would be a next step? Thanks Michelle! Be Blessed! Bev


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## Jax08

What about her breeder? Did you have a contract that she be returned if you ever had to get rid of her?

did you try electrifying the fence?


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## Beverly0223

No, I actually rescued her, she was scheduled for the pound the day I took her. She had been in a kennel outside for quite sometime. No, on the electric fence too. But a dog like this needs someone special who will get her the proper excercise she needs and a job. SHEPHERDS NEED JOBS!! I got her house-trained and ready for the right person, but this is about as far as I can take it. I'm a single mom with 2 boys 4 big dogs a pup and about 100 chickens. I can't provide the lifestyle she needs. She would be happier with someone who can spend lots of time working with her. She's a GREAT dog!!


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## Beverly0223

I did just talk to and forward picturesto my shelter here. They're going to search around for someone right! Thanks for the tip too! Appreciated!!


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## Beverly0223




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## Chris Wild

I don't understand....









http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...rue#Post1151626

I understand you feel as if you do not have the time to train and manage Sugar properly and therefore she may need to be rehomed. That may indeed be the best situation for you and for Sugar.

But what I don't get is why in another post you're inquiring about getting another WGSD. If you don't have time for Sugar, how would you make time for this dog, who may also "need a job" and want to chase chickens?


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## Beverly0223

I read about him and how he is fine with cats, which indicates to me that he would probably be okay with chickens as well. I had originally hoped Sugar would be able to be trained to help GUARD my chickens. He just seems like a completely different personality with different needs and talents.


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## Jax08

I grew up in Michigan and I don't remember any predators that got our chickens...I would highly suggest you fence your chickens in so they aren't loose and close them into the chicken coop at night...so they don't need guarding from predators....and only get a dog if you want it as part of your family.


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## Beverly0223

You know...
I hate dealing with dog sites that get such a high and mighty attitude! I have an almost 8 year old Rescued Dane who is deaf and was horribly abused, half starved and terrified of people. Three years later she is the Most Wonderful and Loved Animal Anyone I know has ever seen. I rescued Sugar on the day she was going to the pound, she had been living in an 8x10 kennel and having almost zero human contact for most of her 1 &1/2 years. I have house-trained her Loved and socialized her to the point where she will make someone an excellent dog. I only want a dog with the ability to and desire to do a job. Most Shepherds would MUCH prefer having a job to sitting in the house watching soaps!! Anyone who knows Shepherds should know that they aren't happy without one! I don't spend much time indoors myself! Everyone in a "Family" deserves the dignity of having a job. For your information, Michigan has MANY predators that will kill Banty Chickens, Hawks and Eagles, ***** and Possums even snakes which can get into almost any enclosure or barn. I actually have 3' Gardeners that steal our eggs and will eat the chicks if they get hungry enough. We also have a high population of Coyote and Fox. Maybe you lived in the city?? Even there, there are neighborhood cats and dogs that WILL EAT CHICKENS!
I usually don't take the time to answer condescending, self righteous people, but today was your lucky day because I was just..."In the Mood" 
Thanks for the opportunity!! Beverly G.


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## Jax08

Nope...lived in the country 13 miles from the nearest one-light town. I'm well aware shepherds need a job. Got one myself that does agility.

I wasn't being high and mighty...I was using a little common sense to make a suggestion to help solve your problem...must be your lucky day.

Coyotes, *****, possums and fox are night-time predators. We closed our chickens in the coop at night and never had a problem. Take the suggestion at face value without your defensiveness added to it.

Kudo's to you for saving a life. Nobody has run you down for that and everyone that has read your post has given you the credit. But if you don't have time to train Sugar then how are you going to have the time to train the next one?

Blessed Be


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## Beverly0223

Sorry, but I have seen so many "dog-sites" and "Dog-people" get so self-righteous they will run a person right into the ground too many times and I just wasn't about to get pounded without a fight! Sorry! Every dog, like every person is an individual. each has it's own talents, drives and whatever! Sugars personality is better suited for another, but another's personality WILL BE better suited to me!! Gotta go, someone's here!! TTFN Blessings and Apologies!! Beverly G.


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## Jax08

bump


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## APBTLove

I understand where you are coming from, you saved her, obviously tried to keep her, and are now trying to find the right home for her, and you WANT a shepherd, so you're looking into one who may fit your lifestyle. I honestly don't see anything wrong with it... I mean, if fosters can take in a few dogs a year and then rehome them to their perfect place, but end up keeping that 'special one', what's so different? Even if the male didn't work out, I doubt that SugarsMom would dump him at a kill shelter or sell him to an abusive home. 
Btw, your Dane is so gorgeous.. I love them, sad about all of the hearing and sight problems the have from overbreeding and bad breeding. 

So I guess you guys think that the Great Pyrenees, Maremma Sheepdog, Anatolian Shepherd, Akbash, Kuvasz and ect. should not live among flocks of sheep and protect them? Outdoor dogs with a job, shelter, food and water (and of course you when time permits it) are just as happy as indoor dogs snoozing on your couch who go out for exercise. I have seen nothing to prove otherwise. 

I wish you (and Sugar!) luck in finding the perfect home, she does sound quite good for agility.

Not trying to stir the pot so to speak, but I think people should look at things from both sides before making a judgement.


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## Jax08

ABTLove...nobody said any of those things at all nor made any judgements. We asked a couple of questions and made a couple of suggestions. 

*Let's keep this about finding Sugar a new home*


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## Jax08

> Originally Posted By: SugarsMom<span style='font-size: 11pt'><span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>*<span style="color: #6600CC"><span style='font-family: Courier New'>Sugar is looking for a new owner who will appreciate her intelligence and Agility and Great "Eager-to-Please" Happy Personality!! She is a Wonderful dog, but with her high prey drive, wants my chickens.... BAD! She needs to be spayed is 2&1/2 years old and GREAT with Kids and other Dogs. Cats??? Chickens.... NO!Contact me Beverly at [email protected] or at 989 873 8590. Thanks and BE BLESSED!!
> Beverly G..</span></span>*</span></span>


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## Jax08

bump


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## Jax08

bump


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## Jax08

bump


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## sielick

bump good for you to save her


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## sielick

BUMP


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## Beverly0223

Of Course I would never let ANY dog be abused or sent to a shelter! I do see it as having fostered her for a year and brought her to the point that she is ready for her "Perfect Forever Home" and I'm trying to help her find it!! I've rescued many dogs from abusive situations and usually keep them for life!! Thanks! 
What's with the "Bumping" anyways...?? Bump to you too!! 
Be Blessed All!! I am!! Bev


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## Jax08

It takes your dog back up to the top of the list so that she is seen and has a better chance of finding a home.


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## Beverly0223

Oh!! That's cool! Thank you!! Bump Away!!


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## Beverly0223

Thanks for your support!! And for the compliment on Gracie!! She is the most Wonderful dog!! We Simply adore her!! She is totally deaf since birth and was so terrified of people three years ago, you couldn't get near her!! She is So loved and self assured now. She is Amazing!! I'd Love to find another someday! It's sad how short thier lifespans are! She's a Healthy 7 or 8 now.... I dread the day.... We pray for her regularly though so I'm expecting a miracle 12 out of her!! 
Blessings!! Bev


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## Beverly0223

Can I "Bump" myself, or does someone else have to do it??


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## onyx'girl

You just did! Beverly, I am sending you a pm


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## Beverly0223

How does that bumping thing work? Must it say the word bump, or is it just whenever anyone comments, or what?


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## onyx'girl

anytime you post on this thread it will bring it to the top of the forum, therefore it won't get buried a few pages down. The urgent threads are busy along with the picture thread. So people "bump" what they want seen by just posting. There is an icon to bump as well!


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## Prinzsalpha

I havent read this whole thread but she wants to get to the chickens right? GSD's do herd, is she doing that and you are assuming she is trying to kill them? How old is she and is she spayed? Looks like shes had a litter b4.


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## Beverly0223

No, She has killed a few already. She is nearly Three and not fixed. She had a litter of Two Shepadoodles in May. One rode home on a private plane to his new home and one (Oscar) I am keeping.


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## gshephlvr

Are you kidding me!!!!!! you bred a rescue dog????? disgusting.... anyone giving her kudos for saving a dog is messed up. she has not fixed the dog, bred it, and allowed it to live in a kennel outside. Yeah friggen fantastic. ick what is shepadoodle the new designer breed???? we need more mutts in the world??? and because the pup rode on a private plane its like okay or something.


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## pupresq

Yeah, I gotta say, that's pretty much where I am too. Folks - this is the Internet - it's great to assume the best of people and I understand the desire to be supportive and to encourage another adoption etc. but breeding a dog from the shelter? Making more mixes? That is not rescuing.


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## Jax08

gsheplvr sums it up for me too. 

Do Sugar a favor....find her a home where they will spay her and have the time to train her.


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## gshephlvr

And blindly supporting her when someone posted her looking for another dog when this one was never fixed. And in that thread she specifically asked if the sheph was fixed. yeah wonder why. Great a BYB trolling the GSD forums. yippeee.

And before anyone goes there I get you were supporting her before she brought up the breeding, but she did say how long she had the dog, and that it was still intact and lived outside in a kennel. Noone should be thanking her for rescuing.


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## kathyb

Beverly, Did Sugar already have the pups when you got her? You did not say how long you had Sugar and Oscar looks almost done growing.


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## Jax08

That picture is not of Oscar. The photo file name says Noodle. She states that she's had Sugar for a year so YES...Sugar was bred after she had "rescued" her.


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## skyizzy

Sad!


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## Beverly0223

Well.. Hello!! Hmm alot happens while one is away!! I never said Sugar was from a shelter. What I said was that I prevented her going there. Yes, You people Demonize anyone who breeds a dog. I understand that! So I am a Demon in your holy eyes!! I'm sorry but I answer only to my Lord and Savior Jesus and not to self righteous, judgemental people. Our pups were and are highly valued by the people they were specifically bred for. The Adult Male poodle is Noodle. Sugars pup whom I'm keeping and who is not pictured is Oscar. I did not post here to be judged but to find the person who would be Sugars Super Special Someone. You say "Do Sugar a favor....find her a home where they will spay her and have the time to train her." Well.... Exactly what is it that you think I am trying to do here??? If you can help me do that, FINE! If not then MYOB! I WILL find the Perfect situation for her WITH or WITHOUT your help!! Thanks!! Beverly G.


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## Beverly0223

Sugar is looking for a new owner who will appreciate her intelligence and Agility and Great "Eager-to-Please" Happy Personality!! She is a Wonderful dog, but with her high prey drive, wants my chickens.... BAD! She needs to be spayed is 2&1/2 years old, LOVES Kids and is fine with other Dogs. Cats... doubtful ??? Chickens.... NO! She is House and Crate trained and is a wonderful HOUSE DOG! Contact me Beverly at [email protected] or at 989 873 8590. Thanks and BE BLESSED!!
Beverly G..
_________________________
Be Blessed!! I Am!! Beverly G.


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## skyizzy

Before she gets adopted out why don't you have her spayed?


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## Beverly0223

I might, but I'm a poor single Mom barely able to keep the lights on but for the Grace of God!! If I had the money..... I would!! Thanks!! Be Blessed!! Bev


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## Jax08

> Originally Posted By: SugarsMomYes, You people Demonize anyone who breeds a dog. I understand that! So I am a Demon in your holy eyes!! I'm sorry but I answer only to my Lord and Savior Jesus and not to self righteous, judgemental people.


ok...since you quoted me...I'll bite back...

now who's being self-righteous and judgemental? We "demonize" people? Yeah...okay...I held a ritual last nite *just for you*...

It's not 'anyone' who breeds a dog that is going to upset people...it's those that breed a dog they've supposedly 'rescued'. You should stick around awhile and see how many of these dogs are being killed in the shelters before you yap your jaws again. 

Secondly, if you want a dog to guard your chickens you should do your research and find the breed appropiate for that. Or how about you train your highly valued "shepadoodle" to do that since every dog should have a job to have <u>"dignity" in the family</u>. 

Where were you when Sugar was attacking your chickens? Was she left outside to her own devices? You said yourself you don't have time to train her but you have time to breed her? You have time to train another dog that's listed here? Why the







isn't she spayed after a year? She's not good enough to train and keep but she's good enough to breed? You should have let her to to the HS...maybe she'd already have the home she deserves!!

Do you think ppl that have pulled dogs from death, ppl that have nursed dogs back from the brink and ppl that have helds their heads while they are being PTS because their owners didn't care enough to take care of them are going to have any sympathy for you?


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## kess&ellie

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/pet/1315706247.html


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## skyizzy

So you are done "using her" and then someone else will use her for breeding and so on and so on. Shame on you. You can get her spayed at Msu for alot less than a couple of your chickens.


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## Chantell

> Originally Posted By: SugarsMomI might, but I'm a poor single Mom barely able to keep the lights on but for the Grace of God!! If I had the money..... I would!! Thanks!! Be Blessed!! Bev


How do you feed all of your animals?


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## RebelGSD

I know that this brings up some strong feelings, but everybody, please keep Sugar in mind. She sounds like a great dog and she needs a home. This should come first.


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## gshephlvr

maybe you could use the money from the pups you sold. And don't give me all that jesus crap. Doesn't excuse the fact you bred a dog you claim to rescue.


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## gshephlvr

yeah rebel we will rescue sugar and she will just replace her, as she is already shopping. She can't keep her lights on but can look for another dog. This is like when you rescue the dog tied to the dog house and they just replace it yet again. So at that point you are torturing 10 dogs instead of just the one.

This woman needs education but when an individual quotes the bible the first second she is judged they are usually beyond education imo. And I just love when these bible thumpers turn around to do the exact crap they are b!tching about, judgement.

sugarsmom I bust my







rescuing, I spend every last cent on my dogs. and I fix them all. Stop getting animals if you cannot afford to care for them properly and that includes vetting.


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## gshephlvr

and giving her away free on craigslist intact, wow spectacular idea.


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## RebelGSD

This is what DNA/DNR lists are for.


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## pupresq

SugarsMom - there is a big difference between being against any breeding and being against the breeding of dogs of unknown background to other dogs to create more mixed breeds. If you ask the breeders on this board - who I think you can admit are NOT against all breeding - they will tell you that what you did was not ethical in their eyes. 

Nor is adopting a dog and then breeding it "rescuing" it. It just isn't something rescuers would EVER do and it's not surprising that it arouses strong feelings.

Nor should you be trying to adopt a new dog if you can't afford to care for the dogs you have now. 

SO - you may feel attacked, you may feel annoyed, you may disagree and you're certainly entitled. But none of what I've said or any of the rest is really the important thing right now - hopefully we can all agree that the important thing right now is finding a good home for Sugar. That's what you've said you wanted from the beginning. So PLEASE, if you sincerely care what happens to her, spay her before you place her and place her very carefully. Even if your local rescue doesn't have room to take her themselves, they may very well be willing to help you screen possible homes. In rescue we see every day the bad places that dogs can end up even when their previous owners were trying to find them a good home. People can really misrepresent themselves and surely you do not want to take any risk of Sugar ending up in a puppy mill or chained up outside someone's house and neglected, or used as bait for dog fighters. These kinds of things really can and DO happen every day.

If you don't have enough money to spay her, ask your local rescues if they know of any low cost programs. If you can't find something like that, spay her and then charge the cost of the spay as a rehoming fee. But absolutely do it BEFORE you place her.


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## WiscTiger

Well I am not sure what to say.

SugarsMom, please find a good home for Sugar. Spaying is important so that should be done first and potential adopters screened. If you can not do these things then take Sugar to the pound. Selling her or adopting her out what ever you want to call it without being spayed will just turn her into a puppy machine, especially since buyers know she can have puppies since you proved that for them. So many people just throw two dogs together and sell puppies cheap for money. 

So if you can't spay and screen then take her to the nearest pound, she doesn't deserve to be a puppy factory.

Next, you don't dump a dog because you don't have time for training just to try to get another one. That is just wrong, wrong, wrong and really shows no caring for the dogs.

I think you accomplished exactly what you intended when you got Sugar, now that you are through with her, you have no time for training or patience that she wants to eat your chickens.

Maybe some one help you from the board but if no one comes forward, then take Sugar to the pound.

Val


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## pupresq

Here are two of the OP's websites elsewhere: 

http://shepardoodles.mysite.com/

http://breeders.dogbreedinfo.com/index.php?a_id=20081125100532

She is clearly and openly a byb. Sounds like this was not Sugar's first litter either nor were there only two pups (or if there were 2 this last time, there were at least 5 in the litter before that because that's what she's got pictured. She retained one of Sugar's pups to keep for breeding and sells the pups for $1200 each OBO. Oscar is all set to


> Quote: be the Future KING of our Shepardoodle Farm!!


She's got a Poodle litter planned for this winter with her new female Poodle but won't be having a fall "German Poodle" litter


> Quote:unless we get another female


.











> Quote:the next litter we have of Shepardoodles most likely won't be until Spring.


When I guess Oscar at 1 year of age in her opinion will be old enough to breed? I'm assuming any kind of health/hip clearances won't be happening. 

It DOES at least sound like she's sincere in her desire to retire Sugar from her breeding program since 


> Quote: She had a tough time with this last litter and it wouldn't be right


and find her a new home. So, if anyone has room in their heart for Sugar it sounds like she does indeed badly need placement.


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## gshephlvr

I am going to vomit..... I hate people more and more every day.


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## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*



> Originally Posted By: gshephlvrI am going to vomit.....


yeaha....

can't afford a spay? It's 1/3 or less what she got for one of the pups.


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## pupresq

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Or perhaps use some of the stud fees she gets from the male Poodle
http://breederinfocenter.com/index.php?a_id=20090805051755


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## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Good thing she's blessed...that way she gets alot of get out of jail free cards for lying.


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## pupresq

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

I guess my points here are twofold:

1. Sugar really does need a home and think what we may about the breeding practices here, I'm glad to see someone deciding to retire a bitch who has had a hard time and find her a good home. We do quite frequently take retired breeder dogs, regardless of differing viewpoints with the owner. If the OP can't find a local person to help her screen potential homes, I'd be happy to offer to help myself. 

and 

2. There is a real tendency to assume that other people on the Internet are like us and share our views or ideals. When it comes to adopting out dogs or encouraging others to we can't afford to do that. This is doubly true when it comes to facilitating adoptions by offering to help pull a dog or transport. We all have people we feel like we "know" on the board, but you MUST know where that dog is going! Good intentions are great but the dog's safety depends on more than that. So often rescues on this board take heat for being cynical or asking questions - but this precisely illustrates why it's so important.

There are clearly a lot of different kinds of people out there with very different ideas about dog ownership. Some of them may conceal their intent, others, like this person may be fairly open about them but just have a differing viewpoint on what's "okay." Most of the dogs currently in her breeding programs are dogs she adopted. This is why it's so very important to alter animals _before_ placement, and not rely on contracts of follow up to make sure that gets done.


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## gshephlvr

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

I never ever adopt out anything intact period..... but so many people give away dogs on craigslist and soooo many AC's just let them go intact unfortunately.

Glad she is blessed because her rescue dogs certainly aren't. any anyone that would pay for these mutts is a moron.


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## ncgsdmom

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*



> Originally Posted By: gshephlvrI never ever adopt out anything intact period..... but so many people give away dogs on craigslist and soooo many AC's just let them go intact unfortunately.
> 
> Glad she is blessed because her rescue dogs certainly aren't. any anyone that would pay for these mutts is a moron.



Ditto tenfold!!

Just reading this thread and her "website" pages makes my blood boil. I hope Sugar can find a home soon. I will say some prayers for the ones that remain in her possession....


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## RebelGSD

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Unfortunately Sugar is not spayed and she needs to find a home before a new litter is on its way.


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## WiscTiger

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

RebelGSD, I think members here are torn between trying to help Sugar and supporting SugarsMom humm not sure what to call it, let's say at best questionable breeding practices. 

I really think it might be in the best interest of Sugar that she take her to the pound and then Sugar can get spayed and hopefully a rescue will step in and help.


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Maybe tomorrow! Too tired tonight! 
But I put her on Craigslist and have gotten like 30-40 responses already. I know you all have an opinion on that!
Here is the letter I'm sending back..... I'm very serious about it, She is a member of our family and I WILL be SURE! She sleeps with my son and takes Family vacations with us. Hopefully I'll find that "Special Someone!!" Some of you are so wrong I won't even address it, I don't have time for useless arguments! But really, I always try not to judge a person until I've walked a mile in their shoes!
Blessings!! Bev



Hi !
I've sure gotten a ton of responses for her! I am going to be as picky in finding the right owners for her, as you are in finding the right dog for you! I would really like to find her someone who would commit to doing at least some agility training with her, minimally someone who would take her out for good runs regularly... She loves to jump, and I want someone who would be able to relate to that part of her, ...
....Someone who would make sure she gets plenty of love exercise, challenge and attention. I would also require that the spay be done first. Here is the letter I've been sending, (minus the pictures, which you've already seen)

"Sugar" is a BEAUTIFUL White 2 1/2 yr old AKC Shepherd that I am looking for just the right new owner for. She would be a perfect Agility-Dog. She is SUPER Intelligent, Agile and Eager to please! I don't want anything but a SUPER good home for her and that she be fixed. She is of course House-trained, Great with Kids (but a little hyper) Never seen her around a cat, Great Prey-Drive (has killed a chicken or two, so doubtful on cats) but is good with other dogs here. (There are 4 others) She is very gentle and sweet, but a tad hyper so small children could possibly get knocked over, although 
she is calming down considerably of late. She doesn't jump up but just moves fast. gets too Happy!! 
She's had no real obedience training though. I figured.... I rescued her from life in an 8x10 with no human affection,on the day she was scheduled for the pound. I got her house-trained, calmed down a lot and very well socialized, but have not had enough time to do much else with her....so maybe it's better to let her find her "Super Special Someone" now! I have to keep her on a lead 
always when she's outside due to my chickens and she gracefully leaps any gate I place in front of her indoors. She has a great attitude and is a Happy Girl! I'd like to find someone who could APPRECIATE her athletic skills and intelligence. I don't so much!! So.... I'm looking for a more ideal environment for her.
My absolute requirement though is that SHE MUST BE FIXED!!
Anyways, my email is best but my phone # is.... *** *** **** or *** *** ****. (I'm in process of switching, but neither is reliable) I'm in the rural Village of Prescott Mi. (between West Branch and E. Tawas)
Thanks and Blessings!! Beverly Gibson, Prescott Mi.

(depending on the response to that... I will continue conversation with them)
Thanks For All your Help!!
Be Blessed! Bev


----------



## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

One last thing.... Tell me please, do you approve of people who would put this into my private home email account that my children have access to?? ..... I really think that allowing Children to witness the miracle of life... isn't the worst sin I can think of! I forgive and I pray for this person and anyone else who is so misguided. But if I get called to the table, then let ALL be called for everything imperfect in your lives as well! "Let He who is without sin, cast the first stone in!"
Be Blessed! Bev

[Removed by Admin. Wisc.Tiger - it is against board rules to post personal emails with the other person's name and email address]


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Are you going to adopt her out on a spay contract or have them prepay for the spay at a vet clinic? And will you do a home check and check vet references? In my experience fostering and helping place dogs, those are required at minimum. 

You might also consider making an application with questions to send to the people who respond and on the application you can ask for personal and vet references, if they'd be willing to have a home check, etc. 

I hope you are able to find a good home for Sugar and will spay/neuter any future animals that come into your home. We do have a terrible animal overpopulation problem in this country that results in thousands of wonderful dogs being killed each day.


----------



## Myamom

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

You know what Sugarsmom..........we're all so upset about this because we are rescuers...not because we have nothing better to do...but because we care about the poor souls that are dying and suffering day in and day out due to an overwhelming animal overpopulation. People that are carelessly breeding, people that don't care for their animals, dump them when they tire of them, abuse them, neglect them............we see it day in and day out...and there is no end in sight..........and we're tired...and emotionally drained....we cry for these lost souls...animals we've never even met.........we work endlessly to save just a small fraction of them. We try to tell people...PLEASE don't breed your animals to create more just for a buck...to witness the miracle of life.....you know what you are doing? just yet again...contributing to the horror we see every day. Guess why I'm still up....still trying to go through my 100's of pleas for terrified cowering dogs in shelters that will die...through no fault of their own. I'm also still emotional from the ones I mourned today. 

I challenge you...to be cc'd on my emails for one week..........I assure you....it will change you for the rest of your life........


----------



## gshephlvr

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

you are the misguided one. Please educate yourself, other than reading the bible please


----------



## RebelGSD

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Wisc. Tiger, there may be some pounds here and there that spay and neuter dogs, many of them (including my local one) kill owner surrenders on the same day as there are no legal requirements to keep them there. Many of them will adopt out dogs to whoever will show up with 25 bucks. Some of the MI punds sell to research. Hopefully there is a better solution for Sugar than her being bred to death or killed at the pound. Her going to the pound is no guarantee that she won't end up with the next BYB. Hopefully she can get rehomed before she is pregnant again.

This is a second person on this board within a year who "rescues" dogs to breed them. The other one also had constant drama with dogs getting out and dead sheep. 

This situation is very sad. Cranking out dogs, mixes to top, into a world where 6 millions dogs get killed a year, nice dogs who have done nothing wrong, shows lack of humanity.


----------



## skyizzy

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Instead of having the kids watch the mircle of life as you put it, take them to the pound and have them watch these poor dogs and puppies get put to their death. Its called being responsible and spaying and neturing. Let them see what really happens to "Gods Creatures"


----------



## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

I don't think I would be near as upset if you had been upfront with us and told us "I'm retiring her from breeding and she needs a home" instead of this song and dance of "I saved her but she ate my chickens". Omission is still lying...doesn't matter how you sugar coat it.

When you sell a puppy do you have a contract? If something happens and the ppl can not keep the dog do you take it back and rehome it? You should check out the breeders section of this forum and read some of their contracts. That is responsible breeding...not just for your kids to witness the miracle of birth and make a buck... Looks like Sugar had about 6-7 puppies from all the litters. $1200(6) =$7200. Spaying her costs less than $300. After profitting off of her it's the least you can do for her.

skyizzy has a wonderful idea that your whole family can benefit from. It's a real eye-opener. 

And if you put your email out in the public then you shouldn't allow your kids access to your account!! You are the parent and it's your responsibility!!


----------



## gshephlvr

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

well jax even if she had a contract she wouldn't be responsible. I see nothing on her site about any kind of health checks, no titles nothing. No matter what she does she will not be responsible. 

And I am thinking it is my email she posted I sent her a not to friendly message.







this woman makes me see red for so many reasons. Irresponsible breeding, breeding rescues, lying, and all the religious blather. The thought of breeding rescues is about the most vile thing. She should be banned from this forum since she is shopping for another intact dog to breed her high priced mutts


----------



## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowAre you going to adopt her out on a spay contract or have them prepay for the spay at a vet clinic? And will you do a home check and check vet references? In my experience fostering and helping place dogs, those are required at minimum.
> 
> You might also consider making an application with questions to send to the people who respond and on the application you can ask for personal and vet references, if they'd be willing to have a home check, etc.
> 
> I hope you are able to find a good home for Sugar and will spay/neuter any future animals that come into your home. We do have a terrible animal overpopulation problem in this country that results in thousands of wonderful dogs being killed each day.


Please follow Ruth's advice. I"m sure nobody would mind if you downloaded a foster/adoption form as a guide on the questions to ask. I believe Pupresq made an offer to help evaluate the applications. Regardless of what we think the important part is finding Sugar a home.


----------



## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Yes, I plan to have them pre-pay. I am screening very well and believe I MAY have found one or two of the 50 or so who've responded. Thanks for the advice! I know that there are 17 sheltered dogs for every US Citizen. Thank you ALL for ALL you Do! Blessings to ALL! Bev


----------



## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

You are right, but I know the mentality I would have to deal with and isn't it better to avoid conflict when possible? I only attempted to find the right owner for her by approaching your forum. I wasn't trying to open up a whole can of worms!


----------



## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Now I'm sorry but THAt is SICK WHY would you do that to Childern?? Wrong! Wrong Wrong!


----------



## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

First of all, please stop putting vile hate mail in my personal emailbox, my kids are a part of my WHOLE world and you are just WRONG! SECONDLY.... PLEASE BELIEVE ME... If I actually the dollars to spay her today... I would. If I should somehow miraculously find them, I will. She will not leave my home, nor be bred again, and she will be spayed. You don't know..... I'm a single Mom who spent 2 1/2 yrs in a wheelchair after a drunk driver hit us head on at 110 MPH. I'm Blessed to B alive! Blessed to B walking! Blessed to still see out of one eye. But I can't work. Although I had always worked, being in the Middle of my working years, my disability is ridiculously low and does NOT supply enough for basic living. We cannot afford cable T.V. or even Trash Pick up, I burn my trash. When my vehicle breaks down, I go without. Like I said, I'm a single Mom. Which was the state of affairs when we had our first litter of 5, We had gone 3 months with no vehicle after my mini-van broke down (expensively) I'm in the sticks, a long way from anything, no church, not even food in the house at times. (I had to COOK for the dogs as well!! learned some great dog-food recipes altho we sometimes wanted to eat them ourselves!) 
I LOVE DOGS! I had lived my life with either Standard Poodles as a kid or (what you call mutts) Shepardoodles, what I call an excellent mix of two of the top most intelligent breeds around. Alot of people LOVE the Shepherd, but are allergic, I am allergic myself, but it is tolerable most the time. Shepherds are especially bad with their double-coats) a Poodle is a non-allergenic dog and allows those people to own a Shepherd without the shedding or allergies. Like I said, I'd had Two, one (Houli) who was on his way to the pound when I took him, having belonged to a co-worker of my moms, (before she retired) the other, (Dino) I adopted from the Humane Society. Both lived long wonderful healthy lives and when the Michigan cold and Arthritis got too miserable for them, they reach retired to Florida to live with my Shepardoodle loving Mom to spend their final years basking in the sun with Grama. 
But... I had fallen in LOVE with Gracie, our Great-Dane. She is Deaf and fixed. I got her from a local Rescue that had to get rid of a number of dogs because one of them killed a cat. She was terrified of people, and hated authority. It took me a year and 1/2 just to potty train her! But, we got her through it. She is the MOST EXCELLENT dog now! I had seen Sugar on "Freecycle" and had actually called for a girlfriend who had said she wanted a Shepherd. I called around, trying to help find her a home. She was living in an 8x10 kennel, outside, with only a little food and water. No human contact and very hyper for it. (We went and met her, my mistake! My boys loved her!) But we let it go, didn't need another big mouth to feed, or terrifically allergy irritating dog. But when they called, months later, ready to take her to the pound, we felt so bad for her we agreed. 
A couple ladies I know had bred Shepherds and knowing my financial situation, offered to breed their studs to her, but I refused. BUT when a girl I'd met mentioned her STANDARD POODLE.... God! I'm SORRY!! But....I couldn't resist! "Houli-Dino" dogs!! You're right, I wasn't thinking of the 17 dogs per American Citizen, sitting in shelters, I was thinking of the ones who had made my life complete and that THAT IS the Breed for me!! I WANT a Shepardoodle! So, we did it! I figured at LEAST, I might be able to buy the kids some Christmas presents this year!! And the boys would witness the miracle of life and we could create happiness with what I KNOW to be the best possible Breed of dog. The Poodles Mom wanted Pick of litter. But Blessing upon Blessing, when I put them on the internet, I started getting offers way beyond the $100. I'd hoped for! 
It turned out that someone wired me $1,200. for a pup, (WOW!!) We delivered Two to Florida, not for nearly so much, but the boys and 7 dogs (Sugar Gracie 5 pups) and I were able to buy a 93 Chevy Blazer and drive to Florida and see my Mom (Grama) and Daughter (Sister) that we hadn't seen in Three years in it!! Blessing upon Blessing All along the way! We brought GREAT joy to the people who bought them and We are ALL still in touch!! The last one a Man in Michigan bought again at $1,200, which got us through Winter in Propane and upgraded the type of food I can buy for the herd!
Then, low and behold, a girl (Breeder) from our HomeSchool Coop, offered me a Standard Poodle she'd gotten from another Breeder. He had lived his entire life outdoors, (an AKC registered POODLE!!) and never even been groomed! She offered him to me on the basis that I would still allow her to use him for breeding, but he deserved a chance at an indoor life, and to be groomed and loved and cared for, so I took him.... Another AWESOME BLESSING! (Noodle) Litter Two, but I sold One of the Two Pups, ( i had hoped for and expected more!) and bought a Double Registered Female Standard Poodle. I am keeping the other pup to Improve the coat of the "Breed" and retiring Sugar. She has LOVED her Pups immensely, was an EXCELLENT Mommy. She is a loved and treasured part of our family. I'm certainly not getting rich here, but am being Blessed! I've harmed noone, brought Great Joy to Many and God has used it to Bless our Family immeasurably!
We love ALL of our dogs, but live somewhat a prisoner to Sugars Intense desire to kill Chickens! You cannot imagine the HORROR of that! My youngest had these Roosters In the House as House-pets before Sugar came along! (THAT is a whole different conversation if you've never known a Banty Rooster personally!!) But my neighbors have them as well, so I could never eliminate that temptation for her.
YES! I owe a GREAT debt of Gratitude to Sugar! Thanks to her our lives didn't crash rock bottom!! I had planned to Spay her, but the money didn't go far!! With the tad that was left after buying Shelby, and getting everyone their shots and wormings, I was able to spend $50. and get high speed internet, so I could try a "magic-jack" and hopefully can turn off the expensive house phone and actually afford Trash pick-up and MAYBE cable T.V. with that relief. ( We get one channel on a good day!) 
So, Sugar has been a GREAT BLESSING! She deserves to be Blessed back now by my finding someone who will spay her and spend their lives living, loving and playing with her! (Sadly, I MUST keep her leashed whenever she's outside, in order to avert disaster as she is WAY too focused on Chickens! That isn't enough fun for Sugar!!) 
Let me ASSURE you, not ONE of my dogs will ever end up on death-row. 
I DO understand your position. I realize that what you do is incredibly hard!! I couldn't do it, I'd take every dog home! I just a few days ago, wrote a letter of Thanks in Gratitude to a Rescue Group I'm a part of but CANNOT receive the emails from because they keep me up at night! I get too emotional! Believe me.... I APPRECIATE what you do! Thank You!
Now.... Ask me WHY I would spend such time and effort answering you!! It is because I DO care. About Dogs, and about people. About YOU! I don't want you running around with such hate in your heart. It hurts you! I care about that! If you took the time to write me, I can take the time to honestly answer you back! What you do with that is up to you! I try to live my life by the Native American Creed of Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins! I have not walked but a short bit in your shoes. I do not judge you. I only try in ALL my dealings to bring peace and BLESSINGs to every situation! I have done my best to do that here. I truly hope and Pray that you can find some peace in your heart and that for my many words I can somehow help you! It's His Kindness that leads to repentance. and a broken and contrite heart He will Never cast out! I benefit nothing by the hours I have spent with you. May you benefit something by it! 
Be Blessed!! In Christ... Bev


----------



## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

I'm sure skyizzy was being sarcastic. 

But Birth and death are a cycle...some deaths are just imposed on innocents sooner. If you want your children to experience the miracle of birth through dogs then they should see the other side of it too. The point that is being made is you are adding to the population of innocents. 

What happens to the puppies you sell when it turns out they shed? You have information on your website, quoting a vet, that says it won't be known until a year. Are you following up with the new owners? Why are you breeding? Is it only for money? Is it to improve a breed?

Those are the questions you need to ask yourself when you breed any animal.


----------



## gshephlvr

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

I have never read such a selfish post in my life. You admit its all about the money and its all about what you wanted. Why did you buy Shelby if you were so poor?

A dog should only be bred if it is the very BEST of that breed. That means showing, competing, health certs etc. etc. you do none of that. Responsible breeders lose money not make it. 

you want to teach your kids the miracle of life foster a pregnant animal for a legit rescue

geez and self righteous much? not everyone has to be like you. Don't worry about the hate in my heart worry about your darn self. Quit being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. You are nothing more than a dog pimp


----------



## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Alright, You have all made your points, and I am growing weary of endless and fruitless arguement. As a Family we have already tasted Far too much death, we are well acquainted with it, we do not need to persue it as an experience! I can only hope you will reprimand the Forum Members who persue me outside of this forum. Do I have to start looking over my shoulder in fear of being stalked? I'm all done here. but please try to restrain your members from sending hate mail to my personal box! This is getting ridiculous!! 
Blessings! Bev


----------



## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

and yes, I am still in touch with all my puppies and would GLADLY take any one of them back and the owners are all well aware of that! And Yes!! I AM trying to improve a Breed! A BREED I Personally love! I think I already answered all your questions and addressed all your issues!! Please Forgive me, but I have other things to do now. Be Blessed!! Bev


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

SugarsMom, As an Admin I can only reprimand those who post in voliolation of the rules. I can not control or police what goes into your personal email box.


----------



## gshephlvr

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

great the world needs more mixed breeds. there aren't millions of them in every shelter in the country now.


----------



## skyizzy

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

No I was not being sarcastic, its the truth. People need to be responsible for their own actions and not expect others to clean up their messes. If you cannot afford to have Sugar spayed, then how can you offer to take her puppies back and feed them and vet them?


----------



## brt

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*



> Originally Posted By: SugarsMomAnd Yes!! I AM trying to improve a Breed! A BREED I Personally love! I think I already answered all your questions and addressed all your issues!! Please Forgive me, but I have other things to do now. Be Blessed!! Bev


Most importantly, I hope Sugar finds a wonderful, knowledgeable home where she will be spayed and appreciated for her companionship rather than her ability to produce puppies.

I DO, however, have a question that I don't think has been answered yet. I'm wondering how it is possible to improve ANY breed when one chooses to breed dogs with unknown backgrounds? I'd be interested to know what Sugar's lines will add to the "breed". What strengths and weaknesses did her sire, grand sire, etc. possess that will improve any breeding program?

I personally think the term breeder is used too loosely in many cases. There needs to be a differential between BYBs and and ethical breeders and they should never be lumped together. An ethical breeder researches extensively and knows the dogs in the pedigrees of the dogs being bred. They know the good points as well as the bad and are breeding to accentuate the good. You can't possibly be doing that if you have no history on a dog therefore you are only adding to the overpopulation problem.

People here are passionate and have earned the right to be with their blood, sweat and tears. You are likely to find the ethical breeders in the Breeder forum just as passionate and not very accepting of your practices either. 

When you put yourself (and your email address) out on the internet you open yourself up for whatever messages people choose to send you. The Mods here aren't the email police. You have to do that yourself by using the delete button on your inbox. 

Please keep us updated on your progress in finding Sugar's forever home because we DO care about each and every dog posted here.


----------



## shilohsmom

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Very well said everyone. Did anyone check out the picture of that fence??? That dog didn't 'jump' that fence, he stepped over it-the things only a few feet high! 
Also if she is a 'rescuer' as she states and rehomes dogs, she should know that its never a good idea to give the dog away for 'free'..There should always be an adoption fee. 
I wish the dog the best, but having over 50 replys in one day for a dog on Craigslist in MI seems unlikely.


----------



## pupresq

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*



> Quote: I've harmed noone


Sadly that is not true. By your own admission you've bred a dog with no health screening and a totally unknown background because you wanted the money. And you're still doing it! If you don't have the money to spay Sugar, what will you do if the Poodle you've got in whelp now needs a c-section? If one of the puppies has a health problem? If any one of your dogs gets sick? If funds are so tight, why did you keep one of the puppies you bred and are actively looking for another white GSD? I'm sorry, but these things just aren't compatible. You're acquiring dogs for cheap, cutting corners on care by not doing any kind of health screening, and producing puppies for the profit of whatever they'll fetch.







And you're trying to spin all of that as something positive but to any true dog lover, it simply isn't and is never going to be! 

I am extremely skeptical that you actually got 30-40 replies that quickly for Sugar but if that's true, that's quite scary. It can take a responsible rescue weeks or even months to place a dog in a good home. An adult dog, of a common breed, of a large breed, and with some special considerations (bad with chickens etc) is going to take even longer. So if that many people are emailing you, the chances are high that they're after Sugar precisely because she's not spayed. 

I pray that you are being honest and will truly screen her prospective home as well as spay her before placement.


----------



## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Well Good Morning Ladies,

I'll take the time to answer you once more. Where do I start? First I guess, my pups all go home with a Health Cert. from the vet, a Health Guarantee, shot and worming records, toy, collar, leash and a starter supply of food. Where do you get your ideas from, Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You should not be so quick to jump to conclusions. I also make sure of their being fixed and the dogs living conditions and make certain they will return the dog should any problem arise. I have the pedigrees on my Poodles and Sugars AKC registration papers as well. They are all Vet Checked and Healthy. 

And As IF it were anyone's business, (but to ease your troubled minds) I have a small inheritance coming next month from my Favorite Person in the World who passed this Feb., and I suppose that if Shelby should need a C-Section, I'd do what anyone would do and blow the whole wad on the dog! (and I do have oxy-tocin and penn. on hand should the need arise) If Sugar didn't have a home by then, I'd take care of her spay then as well. (But I'm sure she will) Gosh Darn you people are nosey!! 

As for the silly statements concerning my pictures. If the dogs were KEPT outside, would the snow really be that fresh and White? I took that photo to Show how high the snow had become and how low the fence became as a result, which is why I had to add Two feet to the fence. (notice how high the poles are? Easy fix right? She still jumps it) But.. That is really Some Great Detective work!! If you're going to notice details, notice them ALL, Jeesh! Go back to detective school! 

At last count, there were exactly 30 people who contacted me either from Craigslist or my local Freecycle Groups. (Some sent repeated messages from the 3 local groups) so my estimation was a little off. Of those 30, 10 were legitimate, and contacted me back. I narrowed it down to 4, but am pretty settled on a Family I will take Sugar to meet, hopefully, Tomorrow Eve. They are BOTH very excited, and have agreed to pay for her spay in advance. They live around 40 miles from here, but happen to use the vet nearest my house. I even went as far as to say I would meet them there with Sugar once they have the appt set up. (They had their other dog spayed there as well.) I am waiting to hear back from them on an exact time for our "Home Visit". 

I am very, truly sad and it breaks my heart with yours, that you have such a tough time placing these poor innocent animals. MAYBE... you are being too hard in judgment as to what would be a suitable home, while these precious souls wait on death row for someone to love them?? (just a thought) 

As for the math... IF I had sold ALL the pups at $1,200. you would have been correct. I'm keeping one, one went to the Daddy's Mommy, I got $1,200 for Two, $1,100 for one, $400 and $700 for the others, but Remember.... I had to deliver them to Florida for that too!! Now count the cost of vetting, feeding worming etc... Yes, I did okay and it WAS a BLESSING!! But I'm not making the killing you make it out to be!! I didn't set a price on them, simply asked people to offer what they thought they were worth and they could personally afford, and I WAS BLESSED!

One final note... I took Oscar with me to a girlfriends last night. (She asked us to bring him to visit her Autistic Grandson) She has two dogs and two cats. She believes (as do I) that if he is indicative of his "Breed" (He Is... and his Brothers and Sisters have ALL been equal) that it's the BEST breed she has EVER seen! Calm, Friendly, Loyal and well behaved, all to the extreme! She mentioned how GREAT they would be as Service dogs, for the Blind, or handicapped, and she does work in that area, and has much experience. But, I didn't need her to tell me that, (like I don't NEED your approval) 
I know that what I am doing is WONDERFUL! I am SO PROUD of my puppies!! They ARE the MOST AWESOME that anyone has ever seen, and everyone tells me so. Their owners are completely thrilled with them. The Michigan guy has on more than one occasssion refered to his Magellan as "Brilliant"! I AGREE, OSCAR is a constant source of JOY, PRIDE and PLEASURE to me!! So, Yes, I am Breeder of Shepardoodles! AND I AM PROUD! AND AS I TOLD YOU.. 
I AM BLESSED! I Pray you all are too!!
Bev


----------



## pupresq

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Do you screen these dogs for genetic diseases before breeding them - yes or no? Hip dyplasia is incredibly common in German Shepherds. What is Sugar's OFA rating? What about her parents? Her grandparents? These are questions that any reputable breeder would be able to answer. I'm curious as to your's.

As to placing animals responsibly, I don't think we're being too picky although I'm not surprised you'd think we were. You believe that a home that will breed a rescued dog from an unknown background for profit because the owner is strapped for cash is a home where that pet is "treated like a member of the family." 

I don't.









This is the kind of situation we would never want one of our dogs to end up in - bred back to back heats, owner can't afford medical care for the dog, doesn't train the dog, and ultimately the dog finds itself on freecycle being rehomed. 

No thanks! I'd rather keep the foster dog a bit of extra time and make sure they end up in a forever home where they're cherished as a pet and member of the family not a producer of $ for Christmas presents.


----------



## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

and Now... for your viewing pleasure... (approval) and I ask you humbly for any sage advice here... My correspondence with Jaime,.... 

<span style="color: #FF0000">[Removed Personal emails, IT is against Board Rules to post someone's personal information or emails]</span>____________________________________________________________


----------



## Myamom

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

AKC Registration and Quality 

There is a widely held belief that "AKC" or "AKC papers" guarantee the quality of a dog. This is not the case. AKC is a registry body. A registration certificate identifies the dog as the offspring of a known sire and dam, born on a known date. It in no way indicates the quality or state of health of the dog. Quality in the sense of "show quality" is determined by many factors including the dog's health, physical condition, ability to move and appearance. Breeders breeding show stock are trying to produce animals that closely resemble the description of perfection described in the breed standard. Many people breed their dogs with no concern for the qualitative demands of the breed standard. When this occurs repeatedly over several generations, the animals, while still purebred, can be of extremely low quality. Before buying a dog, you should investigate the dog's parentage (including titles, DNA and pedigree information), the breeder's breeding practices, the breed standard, and the genetic tests recommended by the Parent Club for the breed. For more information, go to About Buying a Dog and visit the Parent Club website.

http://www.akc.org/reg/about.cfm


----------



## Myamom

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

fyi - sounds like Sugar will be on a chain all day. 

Just letting you know that caught my attention...being an adoption coordinator.


----------



## brt

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*



> Originally Posted By: myamomAKC Registration and Quality
> 
> There is a widely held belief that "AKC" or "AKC papers" guarantee the quality of a dog. This is not the case. AKC is a registry body. A registration certificate identifies the dog as the offspring of a known sire and dam, born on a known date. It in no way indicates the quality or state of health of the dog. Quality in the sense of "show quality" is determined by many factors including the dog's health, physical condition, ability to move and appearance. Breeders breeding show stock are trying to produce animals that closely resemble the description of perfection described in the breed standard. Many people breed their dogs with no concern for the qualitative demands of the breed standard. When this occurs repeatedly over several generations, the animals, while still purebred, can be of extremely low quality. Before buying a dog, you should investigate the dog's parentage (including titles, DNA and pedigree information), the breeder's breeding practices, the breed standard, and the genetic tests recommended by the Parent Club for the breed. For more information, go to About Buying a Dog and visit the Parent Club website.
> 
> http://www.akc.org/reg/about.cfm


Exactly MA. Many people think that the fact the dog has AKC papers somehow makes it breeding quality when in fact they aren't worth the paper they're written on when it comes to the suitability of the dog as a breeding prospect. Anyone that has done any research would know this.

Now it seems as if we are supposed to be reassured by emails that Sugar is going to a wonderful home where she will ONLY be chained in the yard when the owners AREN'T home. Wonderful.

Unfortunately you can't educate those who refuse to be educated. You can only PRAY they someday see the light.


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Yes, I'm going to ask if her husband can possibly put up a fence. That is troubling me as well. 

As far as the prior post, I bought Shelby because she does come from a good pedigree with Champions in her bloodline and I do have her pedigree for 3 or four generations. I don't have Noodles pedigree, (I wonder if I can get that? I have his papers, anyone know?) but being over 3, any genetic defect would statistically, most likely have shown by now and His NATURE is what I am Looking at! 

The quality of a dog is viewed from many perspectives. Some breed for Gentle Nature, Some GSD Breeders breed FOR Aggression (protection), Some for Prey-Drive, Some for Show, some for Agility. I may not have Sugars pedigree, nor have I had her OFA tested, but my vet says she is very well-formed and she does not have the low-slung hips of the Shepherds commonly thought to be the result of breeding them FOR that form and the cause of displasia, which generally manifests itself by Three years of age anyways! I can see her nature and it is wonderful. She is Gentle and Sweet, BEAUTIFUL and VERY intelligent. These are the traits I PERSONALLY am looking for in a dog. 

Incidently... the "Quality" Breeders you seem to think so highly of... Not Very long ago at all... Were EXPECTED to KILL, [not PTS] any German Shepherd born White as it was considered a defect. I suppose My Gracie would have been killed as well, for being deaf!! That doesn't rate with High Esteem in MY Book!

Since I am not breeding Single Breed, AKC Register-able dogs, I am not Breeding toward the necessary "Breed Standards" of a GSD OR a Poodle, but to those of my own choosing, a SHEPARDOODLE! 

(and ... Why that correspondence was removed I don't understand, I removed all personally identifying information. I really wanted input, but that's okay, the main point I saw, someone else did too, and I will address it.)
Thanks Everyone!!
Bye! Bev


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## pupresq

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*



> Quote:I may not have Sugars pedigree, nor have I had her OFA tested, but my vet says she is very well-formed and she does not have the low-slung hips of the Shepherds commonly thought to be the result of breeding them FOR that form and the cause of displasia, which generally manifests itself by Three years of age anyways!


Oh dear oh dear! No, that is not at all how HD works. Also, because of the way HD is inherited, even if Sugar doesn't have it herself, she can pass it on to her puppies. Nor does HD manifest by 3yrs (or in Sugar's case, 2 yrs, since that's when you first made the decision to breed her). And if you breed Oscar at 1 year, as is your plan, how will you have any idea about him? And finally, HD has nothing to do with having low slung hips. That's a myth as anyone who knows about GSDs can tell you. If your vet is seriously saying it's safe to breed a dog with no x-ray and no background info, you need to get a new vet!


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

How about not talking about me in the third person, like I'm not here, and TRY being a little less mean and a little more helpful?? I AM TRYING HERE. I don't have to subject myself to your scrutiny, but I CHOOSE to be here, and have humbly asked for your "Sage" advise. Holy Mackeral!! 

and.... I QUOTE>>> They aren't worth the paper it's written on???<<< 
I'm sorry but I would personally never make a statement like that about an animal either! (Not in First or Third Person)
You just aren't very nice are you?


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## Myamom

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Fence? So she will be left in the yard all day? That is very very dangerous!

My dogs are NOT outside at all when I'm not supervising...period. 

I would NEVER adopt to anyone that is going to chain the dog all day....or leave it in a yard when they aren't home. PERIOD.


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Thank You for addressing me directly. 
Well, I just might do that (get a new vet) (Slimpickins where I live though, really! But Thank You! But, As far as Oscar, I do have both of his parents. And according to my research inherited dysplasia DOES generally manifest by 3 years and.... by next year maybe I WILL have the tests done! Please!


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## pupresq

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

That would be great if you decided to have the tests done before breeding in future. Ideally, this is information you should have researched before breeding multiple litters though. 

It is not true that HD necessarily manifests by three years of age and even if crippling HD has shown itself by then, HD of a severity enough to make it unwise to breed a dog certainly may not have. And again, it's not just important to screen the immediate parents your breeding, you need to know the genetics of the dogs many generations back. To breed dogs where that is unknown is irresponsible. 

If you're sincerely interested in learning more about this issue - and I think it is WONDERFUL if you are! Truly!







- you might want to post some questions on the genetics or breeders section of this board. there is a wealth of info on HD available.


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Oh and so now we will go on to arguments about how much freedom a dog should get in the house, whether they should be allowed on the furniture, or in our beds, whether only people without jobs should be allowed to adopt, then training tactic issues, then what food is best... What type of collar... Blah Blah Blah....I said sometime ago, I don't have time for endless discussion. I'm sorry, I don't want to be rude, but I don't think I care to continue here!


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Thank You!! I have Two Kids, 5 dogs and a BUNCH of Chickens, all needing my attention. I Thank You All! I will keep you posted as to whether I've found a suitable home for Sugar or not!!
Be Blessed!! Bev


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## Myamom

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Most of the incidental, trivial things you just brought up sugarsmom are not a dealbreaker.......nor will cause any major consequences to a dog. 

Leaving a dog on a chain.........or allowing it alone in a yard all day can cause major consequences to a dog....from a lonely life.......to death......and are certainly a deal breaker for me.


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## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

You shouldn't breed the dogs until you know for sure that they do not have HD. Call MSU and get some information on HD. The only way to tell is with an xray. 

Let's address just the money aspect of this venture. I see alot of animals (of all breeds and families) for sale and the price is completely driven by demand. 

So ask yourself this "Why would my animals be valuable? What have they done?" At a minimum, they should have a CGC. Start training them in obedience, rally, agility. They should have a title, not just champions in their pedigree. This proves their intelligence and athletic ability. Talk to reputable breeders and find out what their standards are. I would never spend $1200 on a dog that came from parents that have done nothing.

There is a dairy farm down the road with a herd of 20-30 horses. they breed these horses every year, claiming they have champions in their background. But what have the parents done? Nothing! So how much are they worth? Nothing!! All they are doing is feeding the horse meat market.

These last two litters have so far been lucky enough to avoid a death sentence at a pound or to be abused by the owners but eventually it will happen. How will you feel when you find out this happened?

I don't need an answer, nor do you owe an answer for anything I asked. You need to ask yourself these things.


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## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

just a note...my obedience instructor has a 7 year old lab that only started displaying signs of HD last summer.


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## sielick

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

look can;t we get sugar a home someone?? this is very disturbing to me VERY


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## sielick

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

BUMP


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Thank You!


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## RebelGSD

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Beverly, if Sugar were in our rescue, we would be looking for the following home for her:

Mainly indoor dog, with people who will stay with her outside at all times when she is outside (and play with her). Since she has already experienced the joys of jumping the fence, she will likely do that again if left ourside alone and bored. I would still ask for a fence, so that she can exercise in a safe fenced-in area. I think the tieout is no solution for her, dogs get out of it all the time. She can run away, get hit by a car, eat the neighbor's chickens etc. A stay-at-home mom with children like yours (who would play with her) would be a bonus. I also suggest that you ask for a vet reference to make sure that their previous pet was well cared for.

Hopefully others will chime in with ideas about best placement (which may take time).


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Well, I asked these people Why she needed to be outside when they aren't home. I told them that she is used to being indoors and only out to potty, and that she can be left for a full workday without a problem. I'll see what the results are. We are supposed to meet Tomorrow night. 
She has already told me of their vet and has already discussed Sugar with Him as well. She just recently had her other dog spayed there so I'm sure it is UTD on everything, and I'll get to see it when I go there as well. God enough for ME!

Just a note: I also asked if a fence were a possibility, but she has never gotten off the runner I have for her here.


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## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Chances are nothing will ever happen to her on a tie out. However, I wouldn't bet on it. It only took one faulty latch for us to bury one of our dogs four years ago. He shot out from between our cars at nite and rught under DH's uncle's tractor. Remember also, once they have her who is to say they actually put the fence up or actually keep her inside as you would want for her. Call the vet, don't just take their word for it.


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## brt

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*



> Originally Posted By: SugarsMomThank You for addressing me directly.
> Well, I just might do that (get a new vet) (Slimpickins where I live though, really! But Thank You! But, As far as Oscar, I do have both of his parents. And according to my research inherited dysplasia DOES generally manifest by 3 years and.... by next year maybe I WILL have the tests done! Please!


I was addressing Mary Ann in my last post in reference to the info she posted. Sorry if that offended you. 

Did you bother to read what she posted directly from the AKC website? They are simply a registry of purebred dogs and state in plain English that AKC papers are no assurance of the quality of the dog as a breeding candidate. I wasn't making a statement about the dog just the fact that AKC papers do not equal breeding quality. The dog before you is the product of what is in his/her background. If you have no knowledge of that background you cannot possibly have a clue as to the what good and bad traits are there and could be reproduced. There is more involved in reputable breeding than just the dog you see before you.

Reputable breeders research those pedigrees and choose the most suitable match to enhance the good qualities. They don't just breed to the first dog that comes along "with papers". They do health check BEFORE breeding. Even that is no guarantee against things such as HD but having a good solid health history of the dog's ancestors certainly helps. No vet can tell you by looking at a dog that they are HD free and I seriously would question any vet that claims they can. 

My personal preference is not for American show lines or "the low-slung hips" type you refer to. I prefer the German line dogs and SV rules where dogs are rated for breeding quality including health, performance and temperament tests. 

The reason people get emotional here is because they know that the dogs ending up in shelters are not the product of reputable breeders but come from BYB and puppy mills. Please read the link on BYB vs Reputable breeders and ask yourself honestly which category you fall in to.

Also please reconsider placing Sugar in a home where she will spend her days chained in a yard. That really doesn't sound like the right home for a high energy dog that by your own admission is in need of training. Bored dogs find creative ways to get themselves into trouble. Bad things can and do happen to dogs left outside unsupervised.


If you really came here for information read some of the following when you get time. 
BYB vs Reputable Breeder 
AKC.org
Hip Dysplasia 
OFA 
World Standard 
USA Breed Survey Regulations 
Pedigree Database


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Call their county animal control and ask about the families too. That way if they have been out there, if there are problems, you can find out. 

Vet, neighbor reference, AC check, and home check. 

Vet office-do they have animals that are not up to date or whose history just ends. 

No tie outs while dog is unattended. http://www.unchainyourdog.org/

Their current behavior predicts their future behavior. That's why rescues try to adopt to people with good current habits-people slide back to what they are used to doing (no HW prevention, leaving dogs out on tie-outs) over time.


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## RebelGSD

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

I would do a home visit to see how busy the neighborhood is.
I would also ask for the phone number of the vet and verify the information myself. People who adopt dogs are not always quite truthful, so it is good to verify statements personally.

I (and I am sure other rescue people here too, pupresq, myamom, Jax08 and others) will be happy to provide input about the applicants to you. You can PM us the information so that personal info is not posted on the board. We all want to see Sugar go into a great home.


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Okay! All good ideas! 
I am quite familiar with the AKC website, and I believe I have also visited most of the sites you included. Thanks for the information. It will be Spring before anymore breeding takes place around here, so I will have plenty of time to do more research. 
Thanks for your time and information
Beverly


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

I am doing a home visit tomorrow, and I know of the vet personally and I doubt if she'd have agreed to meet me there with Sugar if anything negative were going to arise. She can already see that I am being quite thorough and I'm sure she realizes that any untruths would come out then and there. I'm sure she's being straightforward with me. I can even get an agreement that I will take the dog back if ever I should see she isn't being properly cared for AS we Agreed upon!


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## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

maybe ask a rescue for a copy of their adoption agreement so the wording will be water tight.

Just because you know of the vet personally doesn't mean they've actually been there. You should call to double check. People lie...unfortunately You will need their permission given to the vet so the office can speak to you.


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## brt

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*



> Originally Posted By: Jax08maybe ask a rescue for a copy of their adoption agreement so the wording will be water tight.
> 
> Just because you know of the vet personally doesn't mean they've actually been there. You should call to double check. People lie...unfortunately You will need their permission given to the vet so the office can speak to you.


I have an application that can be used for a private adoption that I would be happy to forward. It requires a vet as well as three personal references.


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Sure, go ahead and send it if you don't mind! 
Thanks! Bev


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## brt

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*



> Originally Posted By: SugarsMomSure, go ahead and send it if you don't mind!
> Thanks! Bev


Done.

The potential adopter you first think might be the right home doesn't always turn out to be the best match. I suggest you send the application to those people who responded to your ad that you considered as possibilities then when you get them back you'll have more info available to make comparisons as well as a number of references on each. You'll also be aware of how long the dog will be home alone, etc. 

It will make it easier to screen potential homes for Sugar. Might take a little longer but it will be worth it knowing you've placed her with someone who can channel her energy and drive into something positive. Good luck.


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Thanks.... Working on it!!
Blessings!! Bev


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## RebelGSD

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Beverly, when do you expect Sugar to go into heat?


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

It shouldn't be till Sept., but I'm keeping her away from Noodle anyways (just in case) why do you ask?


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## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

You only have a certain time period before and after a heat to get her spayed. My vet did some sort of vaginal check to make sure Sierra wasn't coming into heat before she would do the surgery. You should maybe call and check with your vet to find out the specifics.


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Okay. Will do. Thanks!


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## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

fyi...you might want to look at this page and call these places in Michigan to see if they still offer low cost/no cost spay/neuter for low income ppl. There are alot of them listed for MI.

http://www.petsandanimals.org/spayneuter_services.html


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Just to let you know.... last night went GREAT! They're an Awesome family. Their lab, Leah is very happy, healthy, well cared for and well adjusted. They are both very involved in the care and training. (They adopted Leah through a shelter [unfixed] and had it done at the same vet they are scheduling Sugar for.) She is only about a year and Sugar is nothing on the hyper scale compared to her, but they are very patient and actively training her and she is doing GREAT! Sugar loved the house and kids, and her and Leah got along just fine as well. They are very dedicated to their animals and determined in their training.

The house is set considerably back off the road and they have 20 acres, surrounded by 100s of acres owned by relatives, which they take Leah and will take Sugar hiking in. Sugar will be allowed to stay indoors when they're not home. Leah was rather destructive when alone, but is being trained and is going longer periods alone inside. Hubby comes home to let her in mid afternoon as he is self employed and can.

Jaime has today off work and will call me and let me know when the surgery can be performed. I'm really going to Miss her! The closer this actually got, the more wonderful I realized she is, and fell more deeply in love with her. There are too many reasons to do this, but I know I'm going to think about it in the future [often] and wonder why I didn't keep such an awesome girl!

But I'm NOT "Hoping" she has a better life/Home and will be Happy... I KNOW so! and I will have them sign a contract where if she is ever not being properly cared for or they can't keep her that I will take her back!!

Thanks for all your help!
Bev


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## Beverly0223

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Okay, well she just called and we're meeting at the vet today for a quick check up prior to scheduling surgery!


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## Jax08

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

how did the vet appt go?


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## APBTLove

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Any update?

Did you and the new owners discuss what might happen in the case of bitch aggression? Not uncommon at all. 

other than that, sounds like a lovely home.


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## kathyb

*Re: Prescott Mi White/F/GSD (Great Agility Candida*

Any updates on Sugar?


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## dognkidmom

http://shepardoodles.mysite.com/ 

She has been breeding the dog with the standard poodle pictured above for her designer "shephadoodles", she is retiring her from breeding her and keeping a pup from the mix to breed it.


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## pupresq

That was up on her site previously when the thread was active. I wonder where poor Sugar ended up.


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## dognkidmom

She has a litter of standard poodles she has been trying to give away on the local craigslist, she is now dealing to trade the pups for something of equal value. Poor pups.


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