# West German lines general info related only to me



## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

Hi there,

My male, Riley, is a rescue originating as a stray so we have no real background on him. We have had MANY dog/German Shepherd people tell us they feel he's German show lines. How they know this of course is a mystery to us, we wouldn't have a clue how to tell the difference. Since so many GSD people have said this, including an very respected and highly knowledgable judge at his temperament test, and no one's determined him as anything but this, we feel they must be right, they know more than we do. About all we know is that the German lines GSD's have a straight back and the American's have the sloping rear end. He's just our boy, a member of our family, who's loved beyond belief







He's definitely got the straight back, he doesn't slope in the rear end. Sorry if my terminology is not correct. 

Sunday we were at a herding event (he passed the test but we were told he was a little to rough to make herding sheep his day job) and someone there mentioned they felt he was West German lines. What lines he is doesn't matter to us, we are not breeders and he's neutered anyway.

I'm just curious what him being from West German lines (if he truly is of course) means for his health & temperament (ok, a WG lines dog not necessarily him) as compared to other lines? We've been told, again by GSD people) that he probably won't have hip problems for one thing. We aren't taking that as a guarantee, but it's nice to know that his chances for hip problems are supposedly lessened due to his heritage.

I'm not looking for any history or long drawn out explanation, simple is absolutely all I'm looking for. We've heard that the WG lines are show lines and the East German are the working line so would be more "intense" and active personality-wise. We don't know if this is true or not. But we did once visit a breeder of EG lines and holy cow those dogs were intense to the max and just absolutely raring to go. We knew we couldn't handle one of them properly and give them the home they would need. We found them to actually be a little scary, especially for someone with grandkids looking for a family pet, LOL! I just had the definite feeling they were much more dog than I could safely handle.

Also, is there a simple explanation you could give me as to how these people all seem to know what his line is just by looking at him? I'm sure this must come from all these people's years of experience. I'm just wondering if there's a quick way for us "lines dummies" to look at a GSD and know or at least make a fairly accurate guess? Or is that something that's just to involved to explain to someone who's clueless? It just literally amazes me how someone can look at my dog and say "he's German show lines" or "he's WG lines." So, I want to know, what is it about my dog that makes all these people say this? It' s got to be pretty darn obvious to them since they all say the same thing









Thanks in advance for any info you are willing to share with me.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

*Re: West German lines general info related only to*



> Originally Posted By: Riley's MomAlso, is there a simple explanation you could give me as to how these people all seem to know what his line is just by looking at him?


well i can start by saying that 9 times out of 10... a black and red saddle backed dog is going to be from west german showlines. this may or may not be your boy as some dogs have lighter or darker pigment than others. 9.5 times out of 10 a sable dog is going to be from working lines. (there are also west german working lines btw).

west german showlines with a more extreme conformation will not have a 'slope' as you see with american lines... but they can have what you call a 'roach back'.

just to be clear - any color can be found in any line... straight backs can be found in any line, but i believe working lines exclusively have straight backs. high and low drives ("intensity") can be found more or less in any line as well... i have a west german showline and a working line - both would be suitable as a family dog with grandkids.

so even w/o years of experience or a professional background... i can pretty much look at a dog and give a decent guess as to what lines they're from. its nothing that i went out of my way to learn - i guess i've just been around here long enough and looked at enough pictures and websites


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

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You can find quite a few roachy dogs in the working lines too, but overall Camerafodder has laid things out pretty nicely


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

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> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> well i can start by saying that 9 times out of 10... a black and red saddle backed dog is going to be from west german showlines. this may or may not be your boy as some dogs have lighter or darker pigment than others. 9.5 times out of 10 a sable dog is going to be from working lines. (there are also west german working lines btw).


I'm confused, don't you see this coloration commonly in American lines as well (American show lines, pet lines, "old fashioned straight backed" type lines, etc...)


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

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> Originally Posted By: Chicagocanine
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> ...


genetically they're all black and tan (black and red, black and silver, black and cream, etc...). but i've yet to see a black and _red_ (unmistakably red) american line shepherd. i also don't see too many west german showline dogs with blanket backs.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

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Following up what Camerafodder said about structure as well as color (because structure is an important indicator), look at the photos on this web page (Ignore the text: I was just looking for photos to serve as an example): 

http://www.ottogsd.com/GermanvsAmericanlines.htm

Do you see how Riley looks so much more like the dog on the right? (I looked at his photos on your blog page. I didn't see a full stack of course, but he more closely resembles the German lines dog).

That's what people are seeing.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

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Can you post a picture of Riley standing form the side?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

*Re: West German lines general info related only to*

forgot to mention...


> Originally Posted By: Riley's MomWe've been told, again by GSD people) that he probably won't have hip problems for one thing. We aren't taking that as a guarantee, but it's nice to know that his chances for hip problems are supposedly lessened due to his heritage.


unfortunately this isn't true. poor genes are poor genes and an unethical breeder is an unethical breeder, regardless of lines.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

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Is there a green tatoo number in one of his ear? 




> Quote:About all we know is that the German lines GSD's have a straight back and the American's have the sloping rear end.


Ooooh...this isn't particularly true... not all Sheperds in Germany have a straight back.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

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I think as time goes on it may get harder to tell as people mix and match the lines. I have met some East lines that are pretty mello and amercian line that are hyper. I just saw an beautiful sable american showline, so they are alot of variety now. I just hope that some breeders keep them going as they were before one line or the other and not mixed so we don't lose that original but have options.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

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It is diificult to explain the differences in the lines in simple coloration, structural terms and have it translate to being able to tell a dog's possible heritage by looking at it. It takes looking at a number of representatives of those lines over time and the characteristic looks sorta store in your mind after awhile.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

<span style="color: #3333FF">good read</span> 

After you see enough, read enough, meet enough, you do get a feel for what's what... but blends can be deceiving, and opinions are, after all,
simply that. 

Take it all in, but in the end, you just go with the flow, and love the one(s) you're with, they all have_ *plenty* _to teach us!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

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The link comes to this thread


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

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> Originally Posted By: 3K9Momhttp://www.ottogsd.com/GermanvsAmericanlines.htm
> 
> Do you see how Riley looks so much more like the dog on the right? (I looked at his photos on your blog page. I didn't see a full stack of course, but he more closely resembles the German lines dog).


Yes, he does resemble that dog, but with a straight back. He's definitely black and red not tan. He's a plush coat, too. 

I don't know what a 'stack' is or a 'roach back' either ???


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

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> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder 9.5 times out of 10 a sable dog is going to be from working lines. (there are also west german working lines btw).
> 
> west german showlines with a more extreme conformation will not have a 'slope' as you see with american lines... but they can have what you call a 'roach back'.


Nissa's a long coat sable and has to be the FARTHEST thing from a working dog - lazy lazy lazy, LOL! She loves to play but that's about it. Has no interest in a job whatsoever. 

What is "extreme conformation?"


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

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Deb, there's different aspects of a dog's conformation that can be "extreme". Rear angulation, roached back, croup, to name a few.....in combination IMO they look pretty hiddeaous on any line!


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

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Our Grimm is from West German Showlines. 

I also find that the West German Showline dogs have more masculine features than American Showline dogs.

Grimm at 9 months:


















Grimm at 11/12 weeks:


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

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Stack = how the dogs are standing in the pictures - front legs even with one another. Inside rear leg forward, outside rear leg back.

Roach = the arch sometimes found in West German Showlines backs.


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