# Slightly torn on giving Lyme shot...



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

When I move there is definitely going to be ticks around. I'm not that far from a prairie path and there are lots of trees/bushes and wildlife everywhere. I haven't given a lyme shot to my dogs in many many years. I have 3 out of 4 black or mostly black dogs, finding ticks might be hard. Is there more then one strain of lyme disease or does the shot cover it all? What do you guys recommend? I need the pros and cons. I am not big on giving extra shots if not needed.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I gave my dog a lyme shot once. I think about 4 or 5 months later, he got lyme disease. Never gave another dog a lyme shot again.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I gave Jax the Nobivac Lyme last year and she's just fine. I'll do it again this year. The vet that gave it to her, gave it to himself and his son. I'm not sure if that is crazy or confident. Just make sure it is NOT the Fort Dodge Lyme vaccine.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> I gave my dog a lyme shot once. I think about 4 or 5 months later, he got lyme disease. Never gave another dog a lyme shot again.


Is there different strains of it?


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

llombardo said:


> Is there different strains of it?


I really don't have a clue. This was like 10 years ago. It's been a while since I've even looked into the shot. 

Dr. Dodds does not recommend it.

Vaccination Schedule Recommendations For Dogs

Dr. Schultz doesn't really recommend it either.

drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/post/51149516592/schultz-lyme-vaccine-dog


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I contacted Dr. Dodds prior to giving a vaccine to jax. Her response was 

Dear Michelle: IF you need to vaccinate for Lyme, this one is the safest, in my opinion. BUT, you still need two doses initially , given 3 wewks apart, and boosters annually. Neither Lepto nor Lyme vaccines produce long-lived immunity. Best Jean

Basically...does your dog really need a Lyme vaccine? Are you in an endemic area? I would look at the number of cases you have in your area. Our vet had a sign up last year of the percentage of positives they had. It was around 50%. My BIL almost died from it.


----------



## Fade2Black (Apr 30, 2012)

I wouldn't do it if possible. I work outside and years ago we could get a Lyme shot paid for by my employer. Pretty sure I never got one but a co worker did. It put him in the hospital. He also got arthritis from it. I don't know how many got arthritis. But enough did and sued so the vaccine isn't available for humans any more (or readily available).....

I never liked the thought of using those advantix type products (although I had to use them at times). They would never let something like that be used on a human. So when my Kaos was a puppy I let a former vet talk me into giving it to him (the Lyme) because he said it was safer of the two (even though I knew what happened). I still cant help but wonder if the severe arthritis Kaos had in both hips then later in an elbow wasn't at least in part from the vaccine....

My current almost 6 month old puppy Havoc's breeder Tracy Bullinger recommends avoid it at all costs.....

Your damned if you do or don't with these products..... Tracy also recomended just giving the Parvo & Distemper (also Rabies). But my vet said iit was to expensive for them just to have the separate Parvo & Distemper shots. They only offer the combo with the other vaccines in it. So Havoc got that. They will do the titer test though next year that Kaos had done and my vet recommends on all older dogs.....


----------



## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> I gave my dog a lyme shot once. I think about 4 or 5 months later, he got lyme disease. Never gave another dog a lyme shot again.


same here, my boy had lyme shot and had lyme disease in less than half year


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Are trees more of a problem then weeds and bushes or do I need to not worry about the trees? I'm going to call a couple of the local vets to see if they have any numbers on cases, I read somewhere there were only 2 human cases in the whole county. They also wrote that the ticks are no where near as bad as further north. They also said that deer ticks are not that common, its American dog or lone star ticks. Where are the most common places to look for them? Behind the ears, elbows, underbelly area?


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Ticks like places where the skin is tight. ARe you giving Bug Off Garlic? That is a good tick repellant.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Ruth - I give Bug Off Garlic and both my dogs in the past week have had ticks on them (I don't think they latched as they both came off easily with just my finger tips grabbing the hair) but is made me very nervous.. lol. It was my first encounter with ticks.

I am also now using a homemade solution (veggie oil, vinigar, water) that I dose them with before we go outside in areas that may have ticks.


----------



## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

Roxy got it because our state is known for it..and we live with woods by us with a lot of deer that run in the yards


----------



## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I live in N Il and have never seen a deer tick. We bring home dog ticks regularly, I think they ride on Apache but dont sick on due to the frontline. Dog ticks dont carry lime, and I dont think deer ticks are common in IL.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Just keep in mind, the Lyme vac , if it covers anything, is only going to cover Lyme.

There are many other tick diseases out there it does NOT cover.

My dogs are chronic for anaplasmosis (equine erhlichia), there is no vac for it.

I live in Lyme, and stopped giving the Lyme vac to my dogs, many years ago..Tho we find ticks, they have never contracted Lyme itself..only the erhlichia.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I give frontline every three months right now, that is just for fleas. So the dogs get two doses a year. Should I start giving the frontline monthly for ticks? Any other safer things to do? Maybe keep frontline where it is and then do a natural spray or something.


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

I had Echo vaccinated against Lyme and he got in anyways. We live in a heavily tick infested area (pulling 4-5 off ourselves daily... I pulled ten ticks off Echo in one day. Most weren't latched, just crawling)... we've been using Bug Off Garlic, which seems to have dramatically reduced the number of ticks. We find one every couple of days. Not perfect, but much better than 5-10! 

Diane brings up a really good point that most tick-born diseases you can't vaccinate against.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

volcano said:


> I live in N Il and have never seen a deer tick. We bring home dog ticks regularly, I think they ride on Apache but dont sick on due to the frontline. Dog ticks dont carry lime, and I dont think deer ticks are common in IL.


I think here is your answer. Look to see if Lyme is even an issue in your area.


----------



## lzver (Feb 9, 2012)

I didn't even know there was a vaccine for Lyme. Sounds like I would never be giving it based on what others are saying. We give Heartgard and Advantix II since Jake is out walking in wooded and tall grassy areas almost daily. We brush Jake down every day when he gets back from walks and never saw a tick on him .... knock on wood. 

The vet says there are ticks in the area and they see a couple cases of Lyme disease each year. So it is a concern here, but not like some areas.


----------



## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

There is a homeopathic nosode for lymes, but that would have to be a personal decision since there have not been any blind studies done, only owner and holistic vet testimonials.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

The lyme vaccine is somewhat effective, but is known for failure. However, there are risks associated with it, that include development of destructive arthritis from the vaccine that can devlop down the road, which can increase with subsequent revaccination. There are other neuro effects that are sometimes subtle that the vaccine can cause. And it doesn't do anything for the other tick diseases. 

I have a page of links that I can't post here, but here's a snippet: 
Lyme vaccination is still controversial because the most serious forms of Lyme disease in dogs are caused by an immune-mediated pathogenesis and don’t respond to antibiotics,” Penn’s Littman says. “I prefer not to use Lyme vaccines when topical repellents and collars can prevent a tick from attaching and kill it before transmission of organisms can occur. There are many other kinds of tick-borne diseases in our area, so we need to use good tick control anyway.” 
There?s Never a Good Time for Lyme

The problem with the side effects from the vaccine is that they can occur slowly over time and not be associated with the vaccine, as well as the hospital type mentioned above. 

Merial used to be the only lyme vaccine out there without an adjuvant, which was true in 2010, but I don't know about the newest ones. The new ospA and OspC vax will no doubt be more effective than the OspA only one. However, it will be more toxic with chance to create a reaction, and will also interfere with the new tick tests, the Accuplex (antech/VCA), or the multiplex (Cornell).

I would just saay No to the lyme vaccine. I am starting to read a lot of revisionist articles about the human vax. It was a terrible vax, and 1/3 of humans are susceptible to severe problems from it. It was *not* covered by the law that gives vaccines immunity from lawsuits, so it was pulled from the new market. There is a new one in trials, and it *will* be given this immunity from what I understand. Unles we hear that they publicy address what the vaccine does to this population in humans (dogs have a similar genetic makeup), then don't believe the safety hype. So far they've not mentioned it in any of the articles.


----------



## Diesel and Lace (Apr 15, 2013)

IMO I would never give a Lymes shot. I have horses and all of my friends have horses and some are breeders, it is proven that the lymes shot causes cognitive issues, makes healthy mares abort their babies, and also causes birth defects in the babies. This is also the case with the west nile vaccine. I dont personally know of any issues related to giving a dog the shot but if it can do that to a horse I am sure it can do it to a dog as well.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Forgot to mention, in dogs that are suceptible to kidney diease from lyme, they are probably alo susceptible to kidney disease from the lyme vaccine. Both can be fatal. There is some breed tendency, thought to be higher in Labs, Goldens, and shelties, but certainly not restricted to them.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Diesel and Lace said:


> IMO I would never give a Lymes shot. I have horses and all of my friends have horses and some are breeders, it is proven that the lymes shot causes cognitive issues, makes healthy mares abort their babies, and also causes birth defects in the babies. This is also the case with the west nile vaccine. I dont personally know of any issues related to giving a dog the shot but if it can do that to a horse I am sure it can do it to a dog as well.


I did not realize about the birth defects 

Thank for the head up on the WNV vax too. I can't imagine how difficult it is to protect a horse from all of these things - dogs are hard enough


----------



## Nico Pico (Mar 5, 2012)

My 4 year old GSD tested positive for Lyme. Vet sent the blood out to Idexx for titers. He has an active Lyme infection, in the moderate-severe range. The dog has zero symptoms, a urine analysis showed the kidneys being normal. The vet prescribed 30 days Minocycline, with FortiFlora probiotic. Doxycycline is generally used, but, Minocycline is in the same family, & much cheaper for a large breed. By the 5th day, the dog stopped eating. The Minocycline was stopped, & once the dog's appetite had returned, Amoxicillin was then prescribed for 30 days, with a probiotic. The dog is on this right now. Once the antibiotic is finished, the vet wants to vaccinate the dog with the Boehringer Ingelheim Duramune Lyme vaccine. We would still have to use topical tick prevention along with the vaccine. The vet will retest in 6 months, to check the Lyme titers. 

Here's my dilemma. There is limited information about the safety & effectiveness of giving a Lyme positive dog this particular vaccine. Has anyone on this forum had any experience with Boehringer Ingelheim Duramune vaccine? Our vet said, "off the record", that it appears dogs they've vaccinated with this, are not getting the Lyme specific form of kidney failure. Any advice whether yay or nay, would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Never heard of that vaccine. I give the Nobivac Lyme vaccine. And I was told that dogs that have had Lyme and do NOT have an ACTIVE infection and vaccinated seem to do better than those who are not vaccinated. That was from a vet referencing a Cornell U researcher.

So have them run the bloodwork (not just a snap test) to see if your dog still has an active infection first.


----------



## Nico Pico (Mar 5, 2012)

Thank you Jax08 for your input!


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Make sure that isn't the old Fort Dodge vaccine! Fort Dodge was bought out. I don't remember the name.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

And did you see the blurb on using Claritin for Lyme's? Pretty interesting.

NEWS: Can Claritin help cure Lyme disease?LymeDisease.org


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

LisaT said:


> Forgot to mention, in dogs that are suceptible to kidney diease from lyme, they are probably alo susceptible to kidney disease from the lyme vaccine. Both can be fatal. There is some breed tendency, thought to be higher in Labs, Goldens, and shelties, but certainly not restricted to them.


My nephew's family lost their much loved 2 year old Lab from the kidney disease caused by lyme disease. IMHO their vet should be shot ... the dog tested positive for lyme disease and the vet told them not to treat it unless she started showing symptoms so they followed his/her advice. The dog got deathly ill, it was finally diagnosed as the kidney disease caused by the lyme disease and after spending thousands of dollars trying to save her they ended up having to put her down.


----------

