# The most clueless thing I had heard all day



## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I had taken my two year old long haired German Shepherd Dog Patton with me to a big box pet store. It was pretty quiet in the store and we were about half way down the isle while I looked for the item I needed. Along the side of the store, past the end of the isle, a couple come out of the cat rescue center. The wife is standing back, not even wanting to come out into the store. I asked her if I was making her nervous and she said yes. I can respect that so I had Patton sit so she could feel more comfortable. Her husband, on the other hand, wanted to show that my dog was not a problem. He starts moving towards us. The gentleman's body posture seemed confident, in fact a bit puffed up, but his movements betrayed him. He was nervous. Patton didn't know how to read that man so he started to circle behind me. The man kept coming. His wife called him back to her. He replied to her.............."Oh Honey, don't worry. What can he do to me?" 
I looked him in the eye and calmly said, "he can jump on you and knock you down". My evil twin might have told Patton to proceed with a Bark and Hold, but I just watched as the man turned around and led his wife off down a different isle. 

The store did not carry what I wanted to I went to the next big box pet store (they are almost across the street from each other). I found what I wanted there. I had a nice chat with another GSD owner while browsing, Patton all nice and calm and almost bored. We finally finished our chat and I went to the register to pay. Patton was sitting by my side. While I was swiping my card, another shopper was coming to the register with a piece for his aquarium. He was reading the package, not watching where he was going. He walked right up to Patton and nearly bumped into his nose before he realize he had just nearly walked right into a big hairy dog! The shopper yelped and jumped back. Patton just calmly looked at him, wondering what was in his hands that was so interesting.  We all laughed, paid for our goods and I waved bye to him as we passed in the parking lot.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Lol!Does this make you one of the Gsd owner jerks?I think Patton was perfectly behaved and you too for keeping that evil twin under control


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Patton is fantstic. If you are really afraid of dogs in general or GSD specifically it is a true phobia. I had someone I worked w/ who was attacked several times by neighborhood dogs really scary and they were always tensed around dogs.
Love the guy walking and reading. Done that with my own dogs.Mine act as if i tried to kill them cuz they know my guilt leads to treats. Patton you are amuch nicer pup.Im telling them this story.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I have a aunt with nephew my sons age who is not used to dogs it did not help his dad got attacked my a pit bull recently. It was in the hands of a insane mentally unhealthy drug addict-the tenant's boyfriend they were trying to collect rent from the tenant and the tenants boyfriend let the dog loose on him. He is okay but had a nasty puncture in his thigh. They are recovering from a brutally stressful year. And these tenants eventually were forced to move out of the house they were renting from my aunt. On occasions they come over they live out of state. I just put max away. There is a weird nervous energy max picks up on and so does my moms dog when they come go to her house. It is only with them and never seen it before with people who come here. We are close with them and do not want any issues. Dog pick up nervous energy right away but it has to be a very high level of nervousness for dogs to be suspicious of or uneasy around. My husband has customers come to the house and when we greet them the people are not always dog Savy or some seem nervous of large dogs. Max never felt uneasy around them. But for some reason he is uneasy around my aunt uncle and nephew. So does my moms dog who has been around them in the past.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Being scared of dogs is precisely the reason I first got rosko. we was vacationing in the mountains of Blue Ridge Ga this past spring when a medium sized 50 lb.mix breed dog wondered up to our camp fire. Myself, my wife, and our older kids were having a great time with the dog. He had his vaccine/rabies tag on his collar and was very well behaved/trained. My youngest son 11 has always showed nervousness around dogs but I figured with this dogs temperament he would warm up to him. No such luck. The whole time he was out there he wouldn't leave my side. Eventually when my wife went inside he decided he would quickly follow behind her. well the dog being playful and all saw him running and thought he wanted to play so he started running beside my son. Who then proceeded to freak out as he started to circle back to me. I stand and start walking towards them and my 11 yr old is frantic.The poor dog couldn't figure out what the heck was going on. Anyway I walked my son inside and as long as that dog was around he wouldn't come outside the rest of the week. So, that is when my wife and I decided that if maybe we got a bigger size dog (besides her toy poodle) that could grow up from a pup with our son. Maybe he would realize that not every dog is cujo. So far I have definitely seen him lose some of his fear of dogs. When Rosko was a pup and we would be in a pet store and a bigger dog would come in he would start to panic. Now that he has seen Rosko grow from a puppy into a 60 lb. puppy Who doesn't want to eat every person he sees. He no longer freaks out when big dogs come around. I don't think he is totally over it yet but so far our plan is working.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

People have to make you smile sometimes. Just can't fix stupid.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

cdwoodcox said:


> Being scared of dogs is precisely the reason I first got rosko. we was vacationing in the mountains of Blue Ridge Ga this past spring when a medium sized 50 lb.mix breed dog wondered up to our camp fire. Myself, my wife, and our older kids were having a great time with the dog. He had his vaccine/rabies tag on his collar and was very well behaved/trained. My youngest son 11 has always showed nervousness around dogs but I figured with this dogs temperament he would warm up to him. No such luck. The whole time he was out there he wouldn't leave my side. Eventually when my wife went inside he decided he would quickly follow behind her. well the dog being playful and all saw him running and thought he wanted to play so he started running beside my son. Who then proceeded to freak out as he started to circle back to me. I stand and start walking towards them and my 11 yr old is frantic.The poor dog couldn't figure out what the heck was going on. Anyway I walked my son inside and as long as that dog was around he wouldn't come outside the rest of the week. So, that is when my wife and I decided that if maybe we got a bigger size dog (besides her toy poodle) that could grow up from a pup with our son. Maybe he would realize that not every dog is cujo. So far I have definitely seen him lose some of his fear of dogs. When Rosko was a pup and we would be in a pet store and a bigger dog would come in he would start to panic. Now that he has seen Rosko grow from a puppy into a 60 lb. puppy Who doesn't want to eat every person he sees. He no longer freaks out when big dogs come around. I don't think he is totally over it yet but so far our plan is working.



My daughters friend was terrified of dogs she is here every week for the past 8 years. At the time we had a king charles and later a chihuahua. We had to put them in a garage because she was terrified even both dogs were the saints of dogs. One year we had a big birthday party outside my daughter had to be 5 years old at the time and my husband let bella our 2-3 year old king charles at the time, outside bella who cared more what kind of food was on the floor then the friends and family.my daughters friend and her sister were screaming and physically carried out by their mother because they were terrified of the dog. They were never attacked by a dog i think jumped on i suspect it was the mothers fear but who knows. Eventually over the years my daughters friend became comfortable with our dogs who were never in your face dogs. They eventually got a king charles puppy like bella and years later a yorkie. My daughters friend is now a dog lover but used to small dogs. Now we have max who she known as a pup she was leary and it took a liitle time watching how big he was getting but she is doing really well. He is in your face kind of dog that loves attention. He loves my daughters friend and she calls him her stalker and now she now wants to get a labrador. It took many years of not pushing but it feels good we helped her get over the fear of dogs. Now big dogs. She may not be 100 percent over her fear but pretty close. She is terrified of cats to but one animal at a time. They make dog biscuits and more together. My cousins fear (oops not nephew ) must be on another level. As there is a no comfort level and max seemed unsure of even as a young pup.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Max always has to be in the middle of it all even sleep overs. Right corner pocket


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Patton did good. People should not feel like they will be knocked down if they walk down an aisle with your dog in it. 

Ah well, these people are probably breeding and raising little people who will grow up to fear dogs and try to be macho about it too.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I still don't see the need to bring dogs into pet stores where you never know what may occur. I hear all these stupid stories and don't know what the draw is.
I'd go to a farm supply store possibly but even then....kind of like a dog park vs a park where you can just train with distractions.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

selzer said:


> Patton did good. People should not feel like they will be knocked down if they walk down an aisle with your dog in it.
> 
> Ah well, these people are probably breeding and raising little people who will grow up to fear dogs and try to be macho about it too.



Hmm makes much sense.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I like to bring my dogs out to as many places as will allow, but yes that means I need to be ready for anything. I totally understand that some folks are terribly afraid. We try to be ambassadors for GSDs but it is not unusual for folks to simply need plenty of space between themselves and our dogs. They would rather admire from afar. I'm still stunned that the husband was so dog ignorant. I'm so glad he went back to his wife.. I would have been a "GSD Jerk" if he had come closer, to keep everyone safe and calm.

Now the chap reading, that was a delightful error. 

On, and my mom knows a woman who was very afraid of German Shepherds, who then marreid a dog lover and ended up with a pack of four GSDs!


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

Way to go Patton


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

The most clueless thing I've heard in a long time. Expecting to take a GSD into a place like Petco and be proud of how you've dumbed down all there senses to make them just like other breed.

What is the point of having a GSD, if you want them to behave just like any other other mut in a store that allows this? Why get huffy over people that have untrained breeds when you know you are in an environment that does not require well trained dogs????

This is the breed, I think we chose for reasons. To rate them at how they do at Petco with the mirade of untrained dogs and really "special" people.....

Get a poodle! You have no concept about what the breed's about. It's not a dog that can say "my GSD's doing well - he did good in PetCo today......

Get a hampster......!!


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## Lykaios (Nov 18, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> The most clueless thing I've heard in a long time. Expecting to take a GSD into a place like Petco and be proud of how you've dumbed down all there senses to make them just like other breed.
> 
> What is the point of having a GSD, if you want them to behave just like any other other mut in a store that allows this? Why get huffy over people that have untrained breeds when you know you are in an environment that does not require well trained dogs????
> 
> ...


lol... is this whole post meant to be a quote of the most clueless thing you heard today or is it supposed to be sarcastic or something?


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I would think it would be more about being able to take your gsd into any place and being comfortable knowing that your gsd will behave as expected regardless of the environment.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> The most clueless thing I've heard in a long time. Expecting to take a GSD into a place like Petco and be proud of how you've dumbed down all there senses to make them just like other breed.
> 
> What is the point of having a GSD, if you want them to behave just like any other other mut in a store that allows this? Why get huffy over people that have untrained breeds when you know you are in an environment that does not require well trained dogs????
> 
> ...


I'm confused... do you have an issue with a well-trained dog behaving properly in a high-distraction environment?

Not everyone that buys a Ferrari keeps it on the race track. Not everyone with a hammer is a carpenter. Not everyone that gets a GSD wants the "aloof" behaviour endlessly mentioned on this board.

On the other hand, the general public, their dogs and their children could definitely do with a little more common sense & decency.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

cdwoodcox said:


> I would think it would be more about being able to take your gsd into any place and being comfortable knowing that your gsd will behave as expected regardless of the environment.


I agree, but there are circumstances that I'd much rather avoid. Go in, get my bird food, and leave. No reason to have my dog smell a pee spot where another lifted its leg on merchandise. Or then be tempted to mark over it. 
I seldom buy anything other than parrot food from pet stores. I try to support the smaller local shops for some things, but admit that most of my dog plunder is bought online.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

yuriy said:


> I'm confused... do you have an issue with a well-trained dog behaving properly in a high-distraction environment?
> 
> Not everyone that buys a Ferrari keeps it on the race track. Not everyone with a hammer is a carpenter. Not everyone that gets a GSD wants the "aloof" behaviour endlessly mentioned on this board.
> 
> On the other hand, the general public, their dogs and their children could definitely do with a little more common sense & decency.


 Yes, he or she does have an issue, either his dog can't hack it in such an environment and therefore is not taken there, and therefore the breed on the whole is not cut out for such things, or we're just stirring the pot tonight.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

cdwoodcox said:


> I would think it would be more about being able to take your gsd into any place and being comfortable knowing that your gsd will behave as expected regardless of the environment.


Why would anyone take a GSD - bred for herding, guarding etc - into any type of environment such as Petco?

I think there is some confusion in that the GSD has been trained to do other tasks in law enforcement or guide dog - so they seem to be an "all around" dog. 

That, IMO is where it gets into the finer point of temperament, which is way outside the realm of pet or sport dogs. Knowing what I know now - after my 5th GSD- there is a huge difference in selecting the right GSD for the job. I'm quite sure that the military and guide dog associations have known this for decades....

The dog is special... the breed is specialized. People get this breed today and expect it to be alllll they ever read/heard about in all capacities - without understanding the EXTREME training it takes in each speciality.

After owning 5 GSD's. My understanding is that they are an extremely versatile breed but are a hot mess if not trained properly. They don't automatically come as good as you see them in history or on the news. It's the people and understanding of the breed and how to work with them that continues to be a success story - the downfall of the breed is due to a total fail on people's part that do not understand the GSD....

They are highly able to accept the harshest conditions their owner can put them under and when they fold and you have to destroy them.... many times it's because they were unfortunate to come under the ownership of someone that did not use and appreciate what they had.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

onyx'girl said:


> cdwoodcox said:
> 
> 
> > I would think it would be more about being able to take your gsd into any place and being comfortable knowing that your gsd will behave as expected regardless of the environment.
> ...


 Rosko is only 7 1/2 months old. I try and use pet stores, tsc, big R, etc... As places to help socialize him. He is 24 inches tall and 60 lbs. So he isn't overly big where everyone is scared of him. Who knows maybe someone who runs into a well behaved gsd in a pets will be inclined to educate themselves and possibly take home a rescue. Maybe I'm grasping at straws who knows.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

My point was that a grown man made a comment that surprised me as totally clueless. If he had said ,"what can he do to me?" About a miniature poodle it would have made sense. But I had an 85 pound German Shepherd Dog. .Honestly my mind went to "put on a bite sleeve and then I'll show you what he can do to you. Then I thought about a Bark and Hold. My dog was fine. It was my imagination that misbehaved. Instead I just said something to stop him from moving forward.

Most people we meet and stop to talk either love German Shepherds or admire them but are afraid of them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Stonevintage said:


> Why would anyone take a GSD - bred for herding, guarding etc - into any type of environment such as Petco?
> 
> I think there is some confusion in that the GSD has been trained to do other tasks in law enforcement or guide dog - so they seem to be an "all around" dog.
> 
> ...


 ANY GSD ought to be able to manage walking through a pet store with dogs and people of all shapes, sizes, and temperaments. 

It takes a specialized GSD with training to do this while performing a job like working with a blind handler or apprehending criminals. 

But if a GSD cannot walk through a pet store on lead with their owner then they have a questionable temperament.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

car2ner said:


> My point was that a grown man made a comment that surprised me as totally clueless. If he had said ,"what can he do to me?" About a miniature poodle it would have made sense. But I had an 85 pound German Shepherd Dog. .Honestly my mind went to "put on a bite sleeve and then I'll show you what he can do to you. Then I thought about a Bark and Hold. My dog was fine. It was my imagination that misbehaved. Instead I just said something to stop him from moving forward.
> 
> Most people we meet and stop to talk either love German Shepherds or admire them but are afraid of them.


Most have some respect for the breed. Unfortunately it often is accompanied by some fear. Ah well, you can't please everyone.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

selzer said:


> ANY GSD ought to be able to manage walking through a pet store with dogs and people of all shapes, sizes, and temperaments.
> 
> It takes a specialized GSD with training to do this while performing a job like working with a blind handler or apprehending criminals.
> 
> But if a GSD cannot walk through a pet store on lead with their owner then they have a questionable temperament.


 yet many immature GSD's don't seem to be able to handle the stimulation...low thresholds. It is sad because too many clueless owners can't read their dogs correctly and the other end of the leash pays. The mature trained dogs aren't usually the problem. It is the "I am socializing my puppy" people....


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

selzer said:


> Yes, he or she does have an issue, either his dog can't hack it in such an environment and therefore is not taken there, and therefore the breed on the whole is not cut out for such things, or we're just stirring the pot tonight.


YEA!

I am stirring the pot tonight - on behalf of the GSD whom I have had the pleasure to know for the last 50 years (since I was 10).

Because I have been around and associated with GSD's for 5 decades or so - sometimes I take a look back, and then then look at now.....

I can tell you that the GSD's I knew 30, 40 years ago would not have been rated on how well they did walking down the isles of Petco or a big box store..... nor were they put in cages in a house for most of the day and then confined indoors all night. This breed IMO - is being abused terribly and it's sick and sad. They are herders and guarders and that's what they feel the drive to do. If you want a dog that looks like a GSD but is ok to be caged for 16 hours a day or something you can show off in Petco -..... the GSD is not for you.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> Why would anyone take a GSD - bred for herding, guarding etc - into any type of environment such as Petco?
> 
> I think there is some confusion in that the GSD has been trained to do other tasks in law enforcement or guide dog - so they seem to be an "all around" dog.
> 
> ...


You make some very good points here. When we choose our pups it was with the idea that we would be walking partners. We asked for a temperament that would go well with a jog in the suburbs as well as a hike in the woods. A furry body guard when i'm out wandering or working in the yard.I don't do dog parks. We do go to dog social events where leashes are required. We also try to stay aware of who is around us and about most craziness. The right personality along with training and socialization is very important.
We do IPO but won't ever get past club level titles. If we had higher drive dogs or a more stoic temperament then going to stores, boardwalks and restaurants would not be pleasant for the dogs and they would be left home. In fact I had a smaller dog who did not enjoy crowds. You have to know your dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Stonevintage said:


> YEA!
> 
> I am stirring the pot tonight - on behalf of the GSD whom I have had the pleasure to know for the last 50 years (since I was 10).
> 
> ...


 
I don't know who thinks a GSD should be caged 16 hours a day. But a lot of police dogs actually are caged/kenneled that long or longer on days off. But I suppose they aren't the kind of dogs you are talking about.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

selzer said:


> I don't know who thinks a GSD should be caged 16 hours a day. But a lot of police dogs actually are caged/kenneled that long or longer on days off. But I suppose they aren't the kind of dogs you are talking about.


There you go..... sighting the dogs under the most extreme training and living conditions and comparing them to the family owned GSD.....

That's where the fantasy or Disneyland syndrome or whatever you want to call it begins.

Quote me what hours a LE dog has on and off duty. Also, the number of hours each week devoted to specific training for that dog's specialty in LE, oh, and the hours per week that that dog must have "down time" as regulated.

My issue is - the highest achievement for some in this breed is how well they do walking down a Petco isle....... and the requirement these days also seems to be they will be caged 9-12 hours per day and then expected to sleep in the house and be quiet for another 8 hours.

People IMO are taking this breed and treating him the same way or worse, than they would treat a toy poodle or chihuahua.

If you think they should be treated the same and have the same manners and the ultimate goal is how well they put up with other people/dogs in a stupid store....... so sad....


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

onyx'girl said:


> selzer said:
> 
> 
> > ANY GSD ought to be able to manage walking through a pet store with dogs and people of all shapes, sizes, and temperaments.
> ...


 I use these places to socialize rosko. He is 7 1/2 months old yet he knows his manners. The people that would pose an issue probably don't know anything about socializing a dog. Let alone say that they're doing it. I don't understand where walking through a store with other people and animals is so difficult. You can run into uninformed people or other animals anywhere. Chances are if your dog can't walk in petco and be OK. He won't be OK walking down the block or going to the vet either.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> YEA!
> 
> I am stirring the pot tonight - on behalf of the GSD whom I have had the pleasure to know for the last 50 years (since I was 10).
> 
> ...


Sometimes its disheartening to see the bickering or criticism of people doing what they want with their dog on this board. People can come across as elitist.
By this logic, hardly any dogs would be going to pet stores. All herding dogs would need to be herding, hunting dogs would need to be hunting, terridrs would be killing vermin, and on and on. 
If you read the standard the german shepherd is to be of sound mind and temperment. Aloof of strangers and loyal to its owner. Ready to do as asked. In my opinion that means if asked to go shopping, or any other job asked by its owner, that is completely acceptable. Be it working line, show line, American line.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> If you read the standard the german shepherd is to be of sound mind and temperment. Aloof of strangers and loyal to its owner. Ready to do as asked. In my opinion that means if asked to go shopping, or any other job asked by its owner, that is completely acceptable. Be it working line, show line, American line.


And that - is what I'm talking about.... "the willingness to go shopping is important to me".....


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

cloutpump -

I'm curious why you selected the GSD over other breeds?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> And that - is what I'm talking about.... "the willingness to go shopping is important to me".....


I apologize for disagreeing with you. Forgot my place. Please continue with your dissertation on the proper way to own a German Shepherd.
I shall go find a herding club now so I may be a proper owner.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Rosko doesn't care where we're going as long as he gets to go with.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> cloutpump -
> 
> I'm curious why you selected the GSD over other breeds?


Seriously? Well, there are a variety of reasons. I'll entertain you. 
1. To go shopping with at Petsmart.
2. To have a friendly neighborhood dog. 
3. To not have to play with him when I get home and relax.

Thank you for your concern.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> I apologize for disagreeing with you. Forgot my place. Please continue with your dissertation on the proper way to own a German Shepherd.
> I shall go find a herding club now so I may be a proper owner.


Use and enjoy the GSD for all the things he is and can give you. All I'm saying is please don't treat him like dog at the lower end of the intelligence scale. 

Your expectations are too low IMO for the dog you have. You have an incredible animal with you- and I know you know that - look deeper and realize the breed for what it is - and if it's not comfortable in Petco, don't hold it against him....... it's about as far away from his world as you can get.....

Sorry, I vented tonight. But there's so many GSD owners that have one and end up turning it over to be killed because it "didn't like shopping" or confinement for 18 hours per day. This is not the breed to be treated like little house dogs and their big day out is at Petco or Home Depot.....

Turn a GSD into animal control, dead in three days. It's nature does not fit all - what you see on TV or read in books are specifically trained dogss - they don't come that way....."


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> Seriously? Well, there are a variety of reasons. I'll entertain you.
> 1. To go shopping with at Petsmart.
> 2. To have a friendly neighborhood dog.
> 3. To not have to play with him when I get home and relax.
> ...


Thank you for demonstrating better than I could ever have thought of

YOU need a hamster.....


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> Use and enjoy the GSD for all the things he is and can give you. All I'm saying is please don't treat him like dog at the lower end of the intelligence scale.
> 
> Your expectations are too low IMO for the dog you have. You have an incredible animal with you- and I know you know that - look deeper and realize the breed for what it is - and if it's not comfortable in Petco, don't hold it against him....... it's about as far away from his world as you can get.....
> 
> ...


It's the internet. I don't take it seriously. In reality there is something amazing about the German shepeherd. My honest intention is to have a breed that can be what it was bred to be. I will be utilizing proformance k9 which is Debbie zappia. I want a dog that is strong obedient smart. One that isn't everyones friend. I would like to get into schutzhund, and other sports. I'd like a dog that will go places and be there with me.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> Thank you for demonstrating better than I could ever have thought of
> 
> YOU need a hamster.....


Hamsters....I had one once. Sadly he did not make it. Still haven't found the poor guy....


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> Seriously? Well, there are a variety of reasons. I'll entertain you.
> 1. To go shopping with at Petsmart.
> 2. To have a friendly neighborhood dog.
> 3. To not have to play with him when I get home and relax.
> ...


All we know is what you print.....


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> My issue is - the highest achievement for some in this breed is how well they do walking down a Petco isle.......


How's that a bad thing? Who's to say what "achievements" a GSD *must* work towards?

Do your dogs herd sheep and cattle all day?
Are you a K9 handler in the military, border patrol, or police?
Do your dogs participate in regular search & rescue calls? 

You said yourself the GSD is a versatile breed. So what's wrong with one being a family dog, accompanying the family to stores, beaches and parks?

If I see a well behaved dog - regardless of breed - in a high-distraction situation, I say that's a good dog and a great handler that both deserve a high-five. That's something every dog owner should strive for.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> All we know is what you print.....


You don't take the internet seriously..... some do - as far as I know, there were 2 young GSD's killed related to direct conversations on this site in the last 2 weeks.

Play on the internet, don't take it seriously and continue to require that your dog's paramount duty is to be sociable at Petco - or continue switching your stories - does not matter - your credibility lies where it landed.....


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

yuriy said:


> How's that a bad thing? Who's to say what "achievements" a GSD *must* work towards?
> 
> Do your dogs herd sheep and cattle all day?
> Are you a K9 handler in the military, border patrol, or police?
> ...


Maybe you should start a new thread - the highest goal my GSD ever achieved was walking down a Pet Co Isle!!! HEY! good for you too!!!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes way to go Patton. If its raining bad weather or the sun is shining and the stars are twinkling and i want to bring my dog to a pet store i will. Weather it be petco, pet smart and my local pet store or anyones local pet store. No one is for sure going to make me dumb about it either. Whose to say what else i do with my dog whether it be a gsd or anything else. There are all kinds of people out there parks, beaches, going for walks down the block, at the vets office , outside restaurants etc. etc etc. i guess just be prepared and on the look out i will not hide in my house because some people are coconuts although sometimes it sounds like a good idea. At first some good points were made then it all got skewed. I have a gsd not a monster and he is well behaved when i take him out wherever i choose and he has a grand all time and would want to be no where else but with his family. There are even coconuts in training class so will i quit that to. I think there is a full moon out or something. Having a German shepherd doesnt mean you cant leave your house unless your in sars or in going to some training class or competition but it does mean you have to be extra vigilant where ever you go. That goes for any large breed dog or animal.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

yuriy said:


> How's that a bad thing? Who's to say what "achievements" a GSD *must* work towards?
> 
> Do your dogs herd sheep and cattle all day?
> Are you a K9 handler in the military, border patrol, or police?
> ...


If you want a dog that is happy to accompany you to stores (you added beaches and parks). What the heck's wrong with a spaniel or poodle?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I want to apologize for some of the things I said in this thread tonight.

My only goal is to keep people who think the GSD is like every other dog from getting one, and this will continue to be my goal. As long as so many GSD's die every day because someone wanted them to be something they are not. 

When I hear of people caging a GSD all day, giving 4-5 hours freedom max - then caging at night or expecting the GST to stay "asleep" for the 8 hours they're sleeping.... Then to say the biggest achievement is they walk down store isles and expect them to continue to be what? for 90% of their life?

Why would you do this to an athletic, robust, energetic breed of dog when hundreds of breeds would be more suitable? I don't get it.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> If you want a dog that is happy to accompany you to stores (you added beaches and parks). What the heck's wrong with a spaniel or poodle?


In all honesty, no sarcasm. I do respect what you are saying. I do disgree with your opinion on this subject. When my dog comes I will be working hard to ensure he is utilized for what he is. 
It is sad dogs are put down, or taken to shelters Because owners don't understand what they have, or are too lazy, or get a dog based on image alone. Any life created by God is not something to be taken lightly.
It is sad that people don't take the time to become informed. I will not take my dog anywhere unless I am in control. I dont think pet stores are ideal situations to socialize a dog, too much food, aisles too narrow, other untrained dogs, too many "dog experts". However, my well trained ( not tricks, trained) dog will be accompanying me to stores. Lowes, bass pro, country max, outsmart. As well as dog friendly trips, camping, hiking, dog sporting events etc. 
If my dog bites that is on me and me alone. I do not believe in setting my dog up for failure.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Uh wow??? Petco and Dog Parks are both high risk environments, and people that are unsure or unable to properly handle there dog or a dog with "serious" issues should not be in either place, until they can. 

I did both after working with Rocky for awhile on his "people issue" and it was no big deal. I called it "proofing." But if someone is taking a Crated dog putting him in a cart and wheeling him through either a Dog Park or Petco ...yeah that's not cool!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

wow, I mean Wow. I didn't expect this thread to turn into a reason to defend going shopping or even why we have a German Shepherd Dog. But maybe Stone has somehow hit the nail on the head. 
Perhaps because people have "dumb downed" their ideas of GSDs that this man thought he could just saunter on up to me as if my dog was a poodle. I happen to enjoy going out places with my dogs. I needed something at the store. I liked that I could bring him into the store and have a change of scenery along with me. I also have to take in account that I have a large strong herding dog and that is why I gave the wife plenty of room to go down a different isle. If she needed to come into my isle I would have given way and returned after she was done. Because her husband was clueless and said something I thought was very silly, I had to be a "Jerk". 

i think we have a circular problem with dogs out in public...all kinds of dogs. Since so few places allow dogs on their property people see very few dogs, especially well trained dogs. Their expectations of dogs, of any breed, becomes dumbed down. Then they get a dog and don't have proper expectations. They don't train their dog properly and it becomes unruly. That leads to even more places refusing dogs entrance. And the cycle starts again.

So, good morning folks. I'll pass around the coffee when it is ready. Doughnuts are on the counter and please clean up your napkins when you are done. Today we won't be shopping. Today we will travel the neighborhood. We might even go through a construction site (talk about a temperament test!)


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> too many "dog experts"..


Oh, this made me smile. It seems that often if we come across a trainer, they can't seem to help themselves but test my dog's obedience. Often they make a fist, raise it and then say "sit". Then Patton just looks at them. Yes, they are also clueless, only less so.

I then let them know we train in Schutzhund and that we don't use hand signals for "sitz". Usually a good conversation ensues and hopefully the trainer had learned a little something. 
The worst of these was when I was walking through my neighborhood at dusk and someone had had a few too many beers while trying to repair their car. He wanted to prove that he could get my dog to sit for him. His wife worked for animal control and came out and told him in no uncertain terms that he was acting foolishly. I do hope that when he sobered up, he listened to her. Now she knew her stuff.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I will have a cup a coffee and a donutThis is breed of dog that I agree is in a class of their own. They are the example of what you put into something you get back in spades. When the time the effort and the responsibility is put in they are true greatness. True greatness comes with great responsibility. German shepherds also make it very hard for one to slack off -boot camp for you starts the day you bring home your pup! I think having one of these dogs brings a wealth of knowledge. I feel i learned and continuing learning so much from owning max and we are having so much fun with him.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

> True greatness comes with great responsibility. German shepherds also make it very hard for one to slack off -boot camp for you starts the day you bring home your pup! I think having one of these dogs brings a wealth of knowledge. I feel i learned and continuing learning so much from owning max and we are having so much fun with him.


indeed, and with that, the sun is up and I now have to take my dogs out for their second walks of the day. hmm, frost is still on the grass. they won't mind but I'll be chilly.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Stone, I am sorry, I think you are wrong on this. To have a well-behaved dog in any situation should be the goal of every dog owner, particularly with dogs like German Shepherds. Even those who want to compete, go for titles, etc still have to start with that basic foundation. I know you are passionate about the breed, but most of us on this forum are pet owners, including you, and there is nothing wrong with that.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Weird posts. I love when opinion is vomited over everyone else. My dog is quite territorial of the car and our home. However, he is also aloof but affable when we are out in 'public' places. How is that wrong? He loves LOVES to ride in the car. I work a lot (shame on me), so if I'm going someplace that he could go .. yeah he's going to go! Even if it's to a big box pet store or just to the drive through, he gets to load up and go. Because he enjoys it.

Because he acts appropriate to his location.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

All this petco pet smart talk and im running low of dog food and they dont even carry it. So off to my favorite pet store with Max. It may or may not be the biggest accomplishment of my day. I just felt like posting that because we are actually on our to get dog food.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I agree with the weirdness, lol. I don't see an issue with people being happy with their dogs behavior in stores or other public venues. I also don't have a problem crating a dog during the work day. 3 of ours have "free roam" in their section of our home, Ollie, the 4th one crates himself, its his go to place for down time. My wife and I both work though my day starts much earlier than hers and I'm usually home in the early afternoon so all in all they spend 5-7 hours home alone 4 days a week.

I think the quality of time you spend working/playing directly with them that's the most important. There are some dogs that never see off leash time other than their own yard. Some people have a couple acres or so, I don't, but I do have access to almost 200 acres of private forested property that we visit several times a week. I enjoy letting them open up and run, play, and or just follow their nose as I walk along with them. Giving them that freedom trumps the down time while we are at work imop.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

> Originally Posted by Stonevintage View Post
> If you want a dog that is happy to accompany you to stores (you added beaches and parks). What the heck's wrong with a spaniel or poodle?


I had a little dog that really enjoyed walking for miles with me, at least 5 daily. And then she settled down nicely in the house. She did have separation anxiety and she didn't like crowds so we never took her to places like boardwalks, stores and restaurants. I had a ridgie mix that loved crowds and even came with me to 4th of July celebrations. Fireworks did not scare her. I also took her to concerts in the park and she even performed in a production of Much Ado About Nothing! 

My two year old shepherd enjoys going places with us, doesn't seem to mind crowds, although he does need down time to recharge afterwards. We call them adventures. He is a smart dog and gets as bored as we do with the same home routine everyday. We don't have sheep to herd or drugs to search for (although he does find where my husband hides my coffee in the morning). He does help me garden and I am excited to see what my pup will love to do. 

The point of the post was to bring up the odd assumption one man had about my German Shepherd. The other was that I found it silly that another fellow nearly walked into my dog, no harm done. The surprised look on his face when he noticed where my dog was, was priceless. It really wasn't to brag that my dog behaved well in the store.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

> All this petco pet smart talk and im running low of dog food and they dont even carry it. So off to my favorite pet store with Max. It may or may not be the biggest accomplishment of my day. I just felt like posting that because we are actually on our to get dog food.


Hey Jenny, I'm getting a little low too. Can you pick some up for me? (the big box stored don't carry it. I get it at an independent store in town).


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> If you want a dog that is happy to accompany you to stores (you added beaches and parks). What the heck's wrong with a spaniel or poodle?


You've yet to explain why having a well trained GSD "family dog" is a bad thing. 

People can achieve many things. Does everyone have to be an astronaut or heart surgeon to live a happy life and provide value to society? Obviously not, and dogs are no different.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I also disagree with stonevintage's view. 

Of course GSD ought to be capable of more than just a stroll in the pet store. Certainly. But hopefully, our breed does not act worse than a spaniel or a poodle in a pet store. 

GSDs come from different lines and different bloodlines. Genetically, they are all over the place. So, my dogs might be able to manage a dog show or a pet store with little preparation, while another dog might need to be socialized to the atmosphere young or get over some reactivity to be reasonably safe in the setting. Lots of times it is the reaction of the handlers that put the dogs on their guard in the first place. And sometimes, there are truly unpredictable dogs out there, or people who are not yet comfortable understanding what their dog will do. So it takes some people longer to get them to the point of exemplary behavior in a pet store type environment. 

So maybe I am more impressed with my dogs' ability to allow a vet to scrape tartar off their teeth, than not reacting to a strange dog or person at a big box store. You might be more impressed with your dogs' ability to bite a decoy's sleeve. One would think we could find a community that is happy to congratulate whatever milestones/achievements/traits an owner is happy about, without putting down some to show how much better their dog is; without suggesting people get poodles than GSDs, without suggesting a real GSD doesn't do well at these little piddly things, because a real GSD is so much more.

As for crating dogs, yes and no. We have to manage our dogs and our lives. A dog with more energy and more drive probably needs more human time devoted to the dog, at the same time, a lot of times, those are the dogs that require a crate when they cannot be supervised by their human. Dogs do sleep a lot during the day. There is nothing wrong with containing the dog, so long as the dog's requirements are addressed. We do not all have 200-300 sheep for our dogs to run around and drive here and there for 12-14 hours a day, but most of our dogs can manage that fact better than some of us on this forum can.


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

I'm flabbergasted. OP please don't feel any less proud of yours and Patton's achievements. I believe a controlled and confident GSD in a stimulating environment is a truly beautiful site to behold. Not to mentioned a fantastic testament to the versatility and character of this breed. Of course, I do not believe that you hold pet store visits as the epitome of working your GSD, but the achievement in successfully doing so is easy to see.

Well done!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

car2ner said:


> Hey Jenny, I'm getting a little low too. Can you pick some up for me? (the big box stored don't carry it. I get it at an independent store in town).



I may be that way again tomorrow


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

> Of course, I do not believe that you hold pet store visits as the epitome of working your GSD, but the achievement in successfully doing so is easy to see.


thanks. Actually I am pretty darn pleased that the same dog that hits a bite sleeve hard is the same dog that lays quiet under the table at the restaurant without begging, is the same dog that searches the yard and home for a missing object, is the same dog that fetches my watering can (now if I can get him to do that without biting holes into it), is the same dog that has the deep loud bark at the creatures in the night who dare to consider coming near our fence, is the same dog that quietly watches if my hubby or I get to gabbing with someone while on a walk. Yes, we are usually talking about dogs.


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## Lykaios (Nov 18, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> If you want a dog that is happy to accompany you to stores (you added beaches and parks). What the heck's wrong with a spaniel or poodle?


Curious what amazing things you do with your dog that perfectly satisfies what GSD's are bred for? In your opinion is their only purpose herding and guarding? 

GSDs are meant to be versatile dogs, and suited for a lot of different jobs, not just "herding and guarding"... as most people know. Most of which involve being able to look to their handler for direction and behave and function in the midst of chaos and high stimulation environments... like a pet store, or a million other places where you never really know what you are going to run into. A well rounded GSD is an amazing dog.


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## Lykaios (Nov 18, 2015)

car2ner said:


> thanks. Actually I am pretty darn pleased that the same dog that hits a bite sleeve hard is the same dog that lays quiet under the table at the restaurant without begging, is the same dog that searches the yard and home for a missing object, is the same dog that fetches my watering can (now if I can get him to do that without biting holes into it), is the same dog that has the deep loud bark at the creatures in the night who dare to consider coming near our fence, is the same dog that quietly watches if my hubby or I get to gabbing with someone while on a walk. Yes, we are usually talking about dogs.


:thumbup:


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