# 8wks? 12wks? 16weeks???



## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

So, this is my first litter of Euro line Gsheps here at Bolenhaus Shepherds and the litter is close to being born(mid-nov). I like to do my research, but i get alot of opposing opinions, so i thought i'd ask here...

How old should puppies be before sending them to their homes? I feel I want to wait till 12 or 16 weeks old, so that by that point, the mother will be detached and not wanting the pups anymore. At 8 weeks, I feel that its too early. How do you all feel?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm not a breeder, but as a buyer I want my puppy at 8 weeks. Those are priceless weeks that you can never recover and I want to use them to my advantage as far as socializing goes. From your standpoint, I think you'd have a huge job on your hands keeping them that long, at 16 weeks.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

I think by 8 weeks you would be happy to be rid of them. But I disagree with Blanketback. I prefer to get my puppies a little older than 8 weeks. It seems to me that the longer they socialize with mom and siblings the more well adjusted they are and older is easier to potty train. :laugh:


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

I think that if you are asking this question now, you probably need to do a little more "research" before you produce another litter.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

10 Weeks is my preference. Having gotten animals at 8 weeks, and then at 10 and 12 weeks, I've found I prefer the slightly older puppies


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I got my current male GSD at 7 weeks to the day! Too early but this was from a kennel where the pups didn't get a lot of people socialization so it might have been for the best. i would say it depends a LOT on the environment the pups are in - family kind of raising probably can leave a little later but a real kennel environment --- get them out of there asap.


We got another pup at 12 weeks and she was a very stable well adjusted social but could be protective GSD.

This is obviously from a BUYER view not a breeder.


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

PatchonGSD said:


> I think that if you are asking this question now, you probably need to do a little more "research" before you produce another litter.


Well, I have my own belief's and opinions about what to do, but I realize that others believe otherwise and it might be healthy to ask around and maybe re-adjust how i feel. I think I'm leaning toward 8 to 10 weeks after thinking about it and discussing it with the breeder i took my female to.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

IMO, GSD puppies need to be separated from each other before 12 weeks. 

I think that 8-10 weeks is prime time for them to go to new homes and bond with their new families. 

A few decades ago, 7 weeks was considered the best time, but having raised a number of litters now, I really feel that a 7 week old is such a baby that is not ready to be on its own--so if you get a puppy that age, please plan to spend 90%+ of your time with that pup over the next week. 

I also think that extra week with littermates teaches them valuable dog relationship/communication skills.


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

Thank you all for the input. Even though I've had this litter planned out for some time, the closer to the chopping block I get, the more I want to make sure i have a tight gameplan ready!


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I got my pup at 9 1/2 weeks (yes, let the jokes begin), and I thought it was perfect. I was all worried it was "too late", but he potty trained immediately (only 2 small accidents right by the slider the first 2 days, my fault), he only whimpered just the first night in his crate (I took him out and he went, then we all went back to sleep), never another whine out of him in it. All in all, except for the landsharking, he was the easiest puppy I've ever had-- loved to train, was bright, curious, non-fearful, good with other animals.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

von Bolen said:


> Well, I have my own belief's and opinions about what to do, but I realize that others believe otherwise and it might be healthy to ask around and *maybe re-adjust how i feel*. I think I'm leaning toward 8 to 10 weeks after thinking about it and discussing it with the breeder i took my female to.


After looking at your website, there are many things that I would re-adjust before producing more puppies. This is a perfect example of something that I referenced in another thread but To each their own. :shrug:


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

Well, im open to suggestions. First year out, im sure there are many things i will learn and change with time. At least, thats what the mearby gshep kennels im friends with have said.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

My male came home at 8 weeks and my female came home at 12 weeks old. 

Of course it could simply be genetics but I found that my female was much more settled when she came here. She was also potty trained for the most part and was use to being in a crate alone. 

I personally, as a buyer, wouldn't mind waiting that extra 2 weeks or so, because in my mind, the longer they interact with their siblings and other dogs, the better off they are (bite inhibition, etc..).


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I don't let my pups go before 8 weeks and have kept them up to 10. I have also kept some through prelims (6 months). 

I have gotten pups over the years as young as 6.5 weeks (that will never happen again) up to 5 months. 

If you keep pups longer be very prepared to do a lot of early work with them. My pups that leave at 8 weeks are crate trained, have had some early work on focus, scent work, obedience, started on house breaking, etc. Older pups have a lot more work put into them. As a buyer I would want my pup at 8 weeks unless I knew for sure that the breeder would be putting the time into my pup that I put into my own litters AND they do the type of foundation work that I want. Unless you have a lot of experience I would let them go at 8 weeks.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

von Bolen said:


> Well, im open to suggestions. First year out, im sure there are many things i will learn and change with time. At least, thats what the mearby gshep kennels im friends with have said.


*From your website:*
*



Fricks is our solid black female of Czech working lines and W. German show lines. Strong bones, good hips and elbows, and an amazing temperament. She picks up fast and is eager to learn and please. Loyal beyond all belief. Her silky-soft plush coat has people unable to keep themselves from commenting on her and wanting to meet her, and to top that off, her personality is infectious. She is level-headed, calm and collected. She is the start of our breeding program, and we hope to build her lineage to far exceed her successions. After her up-coming first litter, we will be working to get her good citizenship, international, herding, and other titles we feel she would excel at. She has been a complete dream to raise, and is queen at our house.

Click to expand...

*If this paragraph was the basis for breeding a dog, we'd all be breeding our dogs. You mentioned several times that you are breeding for "strong bones" and good hips/elbows. Have you had Fricks OFA'd? If you have, I would post the results on the website assuming they were acceptable results for breeding. 

You should have given Fricks the opportunity to prove her worthiness of breeding by titling her *before* you bred her.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

von Bolen said:


> How old should puppies be before sending them to their homes? I feel I want to wait till 12 or 16 weeks old, so that by that point, *the mother will be* *detached and not wanting the pups anymore*. At 8 weeks, I feel that its too early. How do you all feel?


I'm not a breeder, but I spend too much time on this forum. It has been mentioned here numerous times that some puppies are really hard (physcially) on the bitch when the puppy teeth come in. Some bitches won't allow the pups to feed long before they are 8 weeks old. Some bitches kick the pups off long before the pups should be weaned. You might want to have a back up plan in case that happens.


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

Fricks is beautiful! I see what you mean with that plush coat. Good thing I already have enough dogs.


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

Ihczth: Yes, I agree that foundation work should be put in if kept more than 8 weeks, and with mh flexible schedual, I am able to do so and planned to do so. I hadn't thought of starting on scentwork, but its definately something I am now considering as it would be a great activity at that age.

Patchon: Yes, her hips are OFA'd and were graded at good and elbows graded normal(prelimed due to her heat cycle, so the actual certification will ge obtained after this litter. But OFA sent back the prelims saying they saw no reason she shouldn't breed. I also consulted with my other Gshep kennels friends before moving forward). And yes, I need to list that on my site, but I just made the site a day and a half ago, so there's alot of work still to do before its done. But thank you for reminding me to do that. And on the titleing, I also agree but have been figuring all this out on my own and as stupid as it sounds, didn't know I could get her titles before getting her OFA'd. But I joined the local Gshep club of WA, so I will be getting alot more involved and even more education from all the kennel people in the area. In hindsight, yes, I do wish I had gotten her titles first. But as your signature says, 'failure is success if you learn from it', that and 'mistakes are our best teachers'. Not saying its ok to make mistakes, but im still learning and trying to do things right as I go.


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

Lilie said:


> I'm not a breeder, but I spend too much time on this forum. It has been mentioned here numerous times that some puppies are really hard (physcially) on the bitch when the puppy teeth come in. Some bitches won't allow the pups to feed long before they are 8 weeks old. Some bitches kick the pups off long before the pups should be weaned. You might want to have a back up plan in case that happens.


Yes, this much I remember from when my parents raised Rotties. I work at a veterinary hospital, so I have alot of resources on hand for many of these situations.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

PatchonGSD said:


> Have you had Fricks OFA'd? If you have, I would post the results on the website assuming they were acceptable results for breeding.


I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you said in this thread, PatchonGSD, but you might have done it via PM as what you have stated could come close to breaking the forum rules.

Regarding OFA results, breeder shouldn't feel the need to state the results on their webpage (though it's a nice convenience for potential buyers) because buyers can look up results on the ofa website.

Fricks has been prelim'ed with results of OFA Normal elbows and OFA Good hips.
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

She is a very pretty dog, von Bolen. In regards to website updates, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a stacked photo of her.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

wildo said:


> I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you said in this thread, PatchonGSD, but you might have done it via PM *as what you have stated could come close to breaking the forum rules.*
> 
> Regarding OFA results, breeder shouldn't feel the need to state the results on their webpage (though it's a nice convenience for potential buyers) because buyers can look up results on the ofa website.
> 
> ...


 What would those rules have been?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

von Bolen said:


> Yes, this much I remember from when my parents raised Rotties. I work at a veterinary hospital, so I have alot of resources on hand for many of these situations.


It was just one of those things that stuck in my head. And one of the reasons why I wouldn't be birthin' no babies! I couldn't imagine the nightmare of having to bottle feed all those hungry babies!


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

Yeah, I need to work on her stack. I was misguided by the owner of her mother in believing that stacking led to hip problems, but the owner of the dog she bred with informed me that that was not the case. Believe me, there a list I have of things to do after this litter. I want to bring out the best in her, so I have alot planned out. I know, these are things that should have already been done. Would working on her stack at this point in her gestation be detrimental?


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

It sounds like you have a lot d plans for after this litter. Why not wait to breed until you get more knowledge and te titles you want to put on her? What's the rush? 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

Lilie said:


> It was just one of those things that stuck in my head. And one of the reasons why I wouldn't be birthin' no babies! I couldn't imagine the nightmare of having to bottle feed all those hungry babies!


That's funny for me, as I remember as a child enjoying helping to bottle feed the Rotties, and since I have a 7 year old niece, i'm sure if that were to happen she would enjoy helping with that as well. We have a whole family here, I'm not doing this on my own.


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

Capone22 said:


> It sounds like you have a lot d plans for after this litter. Why not wait to breed until you get more knowledge and te titles you want to put on her? What's the rush?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


The rush? More or less, I'm dieing to start raising a big ol' boy from her. I mean, I want to raise Gsheps and am going to, but one of my main goals is to raise a male from her to achieve alot with. Fricks, she's my everything, my queen, and though I am going to get her as many titles as I can, I want to retire her early and continue my work through her lineage, so I really want to start on a male soon. Fricks is my companion, and I want to pull her out of the program when I have built her son to succeed her.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

8 weeks. They learn an awful lot between then and 12 weeks, and you need to be the one to teach it all.


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

Yes, after talking here and with my kennel friends, I will sell at 8 weeks, and if I have to hold some for a period, or they don't sell right away, I will be putting in foundation work.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Most of the foundation work I mentioned I actually do BEFORE 8 weeks.  Then I add to that if any of the pups stay longer.


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

Hmm, interesting. Well, I would be interested in a bit of a layout of what exactly you do during that period.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

von Bolen said:


> Hmm, interesting. Well, I would be interested in a bit of a layout of what exactly you do during that period.


While this isn't Lisa's kennel, it is a documented list of some of the things this breeder does with the puppies:
(Wildhaus Kennels Raising Working German Shepherd Puppies)


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## von Bolen (Mar 30, 2012)

Thanks! Even though I have two kennels(one that is fairly large) mentoring me, the more I can research on my own, the less I have to bother them!


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