# House Breaking: Are we doing this right?



## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Hi there,

We have a 7-week old GSD named Bailey and have opted to crate train him in the basement where it's nice, dark and not too warm.

We put him to 'bed' or 'crate' at the same time as our daughters: 7 p.m. Before this, we make sure he's been played out, ate dinner, and went potty. We put him in his crate (the kid of huge crate that has a separation that can be moved as he grows up). He has enough space to lie down and sit up.

So we say "crate" or "bed", bring him down, put him down and say "bed" while tapping our finger on the bottom of his crate, he walks in, we give him a treat, "good boy!" and close the door. In his crate is a ball, a rope to play, Kong and a blanket my daughter gave him (and of course, a few pads in case we need to clean up) We also left a light on for him in the basement (kind of like a night light) and a radio with the volume at a minimum. Sometimes he lies down, eats and doesn't cry. However, most of the time as soon as we close the door he gets up, paws at the cage (it's a metal-wired crate) and cries/whines/barks!

I turn around and leave. This makes me feel very uneasy but from what I've read, this is how we need to do it. * IS THIS RIGHT???* 

I desperately need confirmation that we're on the right path, or if something could be changed about the crate training. This is the only place where we can put the crate (so moving it is not an option) and we're definitely NOT going to let him have free range of the house at night. He usually cries for 15-20 minutes at a time... at around... say... when we put him in at 7, then around 11-midnight, then around 2'ish or so, and sometimes again around 4 ish. We get up at 5:30 a.m. to bring him potty and breakfast. My husband DOES get up at 1-2 am to bring him potty. I had to remind him to not get Bailey when he's whimpering at night though, which is hard. I made a "If I'm fussy, let me be. If I'm happy, come see me!" sign on the door before we go down to see him -- as a reminder.

If ANYONE could help or offer some advice or confirmation, please, it would really be appreciated!!! This is just ONE of the questions I have regarding Bailey. We've adopted him July 4th, so we've only had him for 5 days. He's VERY hyper when we go down to get him too, is that normal?????? His heart is racing and his tail's wagging at 200 mph. Is this separation anxiety?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!


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## GSD4LIFE21 (Mar 8, 2007)

I think you are doing very well by giving him a treat as soon as he goes in, he will soon think hey good things come when I go in here...

The crying and whinning is normal when crate training. If you give in and take him out he will quickly learn that crying gets him out and he will do it even more. 

One thing I would change is feeding him before he goes to bed at night. I would not feed him or give him water at least3 hours before bed. 7 seems a little early to be putting him up for the night. Unless you are getting up and taking him out every 3-4 hours. A puppy cant hold it for that long so I suggest getting up and taking him out in the middle of the night. If hes doing well with no accidents, then start increasing the time inbetween that you take him out. If hes crying and he needs to go out, make a loud noise to distract him, pups will usually stop crying to figure out whats going on, wait three seconds of him being quiet then take him out. 

key is to make the crate a place where he WANTS to be. make it a positive place for him. feed all his meals in there , give him a treat whenever he goes in...and I would crate him short periods during the day as well.


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

If it were me, I'd put him to bed when I went to bed not when the kids go to bed. Even with your husband getting up once during that stretch I think he may be crying a the other times because he needs to go. Also, if it were me, I'd put the crate in my bedroom (I did see that you said this is the only place you can put it), but that's my personal preference.

While it's fine to ignore whining if you're certain he doesn't have to go out, I wouldn't ignore something going on at 4 hour intervals with a 7 week old puppy. I would suspect that he needed to pee.


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## Chantell (May 29, 2009)

You may want to move the crate, i know you said it was not an option, BUT..... he just wants to be with you, I had my pups crate in the kitchen, well she would cry and whine... I moved it in my bedroom and by the second night, she was a different pup, and has been since then! no more crying, whining. Also now when I take her out in the morning, she is no longer jumping on me and going crazy. I am no expert, just got the expert advice from this site!!


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

I would put him to bed when I would go to bed and move the crate into your bedroom they are pack animals and want to be with you.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

THANKS!!!!

The feeding earlier makes sense to me, but if we feed him at say... 5 p.m. he wouldn't eat for 12 hours! (until we get up at 5:30 a.m.) Is that ok!?!?!?! If so, great!

We could put him to bed later. We usually go to bed at 9 p.m. so that would be an added bonus for him, right? So, then if we put him to bed at 9 p.m. after potty break, that should be good right???

I read somewhere that if he cries at night he's just seeking attention and doesn't necessarily need to go pee. He had 1 accident last night, but I think that's mostly due to my husband NOT getting up at night.

So if we put him to bed at 9, then get up for potty break at 1 (after he's done whining... say 1-2 minutes after take him out) and then he should be ok until we get up?!

He barely pees in his crate, and if he does, it's because he's gotten hold of the water dish before I put him in the crate before I leave for work.

And no, NO PUP in our bedroom. I was strictly told THIS IS a VERY bad idea and will be adamant of him staying in the basement. We're going to train him that the second floor is OFF LIMITS to him. Especially with my children. As soon as we close the crate door he whines, even if I'm 1 foot away from him. So wherever the crate will be, he'll whine anyway! I think he's really attached to me. I'm there all the time. There when he wakes, there to visit him during lunchtime and play, and there when I get home in the afternoon. It's me me me (even though I'd rather my husband be the leader).

Isn't getting up every time he whines (thinking he needs to pee, when he might just be trying to get our attention) FEEDING into a bad habit?????????

HELP! And thanks for the help!!!


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

7 is very early! My puppies have to pee every 4 hours at night. For me that's just one time because my dogs go to bed when I do.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Ok! I thought so! At least bed time is resolved.

What about the other issues?


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## Sigurd's Mom (May 12, 2009)

Where did you hear that it was very bad to have a pup crated in your bedroom?

I've lived with dogs my whole life, and they've always been crate trained in bedrooms and they're fine, and have no anxieties, attachments, etc that are out of the ordinary. My current pup is crate trained in my bedroom as well.


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## headtripparade (May 9, 2009)

I'm certainly no dog expert, but I've read that allowing the dog to sleep where you sleep is good for him. Not in the bed, but in the same room. We've crated trained both of our pups in the room with us and they did remarkably well. Now they sleep on their own beds in the floor.

If you don't mind me asking, why would you not want the dog around your children?


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

I would also question who told you a crate in the bedroom is a bad idea. Dogs are pack animals...they thrive on being with you and sleeping in the same room can be excellent for bonding. I put a baby gate up during the day so the dogs don't go upstairs if I don't want them too, but I'd never dream of leaving a 7 week old puppy-which is awfully young to be taken from his siblings--alone and isolated all night away from any human contact. He's a baby. If he is crated during the day ANd at night...alone in a basement, I think you are asking for a dog who may have problems, which may already be manifesting in his being so needy of you.

I have a ten-week old pup. She has a crate in the kitchen and one in my bedroom. She is doing well with housebreaking so she is not crated when I'm home and awake. She is becoming confident and independent and will do a good job of entertaining herself nearby--and loose, when I'm making dinner, folding the laundry, etc. She needs less attention because she's learning good social skills.

I think it's borderline cruel to leave a baby puppy in a basement for the majority of his day and night.


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## lmkersnick (Jul 10, 2007)

One other suggestion -- tire him out before putting him to bed for the night. 
My Bailey's crate is also downstairs (only place with room for it). She was about 12-13 weeks old when we brought her home. 
The first few nights we had her home, she whined and cried off and all, all night, to where my older daughter would get up and take her out to potty. (I usually don't hear a thing when I'm sleeping). We starting leaving the TV on a music station and that helped a lot! I think we only had to do this for a week or 2. 

Last night, she was pretty whiny after I put her to bed. I finally went back downstairs and got her tennis ball out, (I had just had her outside and knew she didn't have to pee) and let her chase that for about 15-20 minutes, until she laid down on her own on the floor. At that point, I told her it was time for nighty-nites, and off she went into her crate. Not a peep out of her after that.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Ok.

Let me be clearer on something. The reason why we won't move the crate is because we were adamant that the 2nd floor is OFF LIMITS to him. We have many dangerous things upstairs (electrical) that can't be locked out, so encouraging having the crate up there would be teaching him that he's allowed to go up. We won't encourage this. We WILL be leaving his crate in the basement. This is our household rule. Many friends with GSD's and other dogs told us to crate-train in the basement, so we've concluded to do this.


Now, secondly lol... I never said I wouldn't want Bailey around our children. We want him to grow with them. It's because of them we got him. I was emphasizing that the second floor is OUR floor, and that we'll have this rule enforced in our home, especially with our children on this same floor. His door won't be closed forever to his crate, and with children, as some of you know, you never leave unsupervised with dogs. This is why we'll enforce this rule. My children's safety first.

Now second of all, I think some of you may not have understood (I'm French, so it may have not been explained right). Even if I'm beside him, in front of him, while he's in his crate... for 1 minute or 1 hour, he whines! He does it anyway! It won't change if he's in our bedroom. This is why the previous owners keps them in their basement too.

So if we don't want him in our bedroom, as I've said that we strictly will crate-train in the basement, it's OK! Thanks for the advice though! But he won't go in our bedroom.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JenniferDI would also question who told you a crate in the bedroom is a bad idea. Dogs are pack animals...they thrive on being with you and sleeping in the same room can be excellent for bonding. I put a baby gate up during the day so the dogs don't go upstairs if I don't want them too, but I'd never dream of leaving a 7 week old puppy-which is awfully young to be taken from his siblings--alone and isolated all night away from any human contact. He's a baby. If he is crated during the day ANd at night...alone in a basement, I think you are asking for a dog who may have problems, which may already be manifesting in his being so needy of you.
> 
> I have a ten-week old pup. She has a crate in the kitchen and one in my bedroom. She is doing well with housebreaking so she is not crated when I'm home and awake. She is becoming confident and independent and will do a good job of entertaining herself nearby--and loose, when I'm making dinner, folding the laundry, etc. She needs less attention because she's learning good social skills.
> 
> I think it's borderline cruel to leave a baby puppy in a basement for the majority of his day and night.


Thanks for your very constructive reply, but I was looking for ADVICE.


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## headtripparade (May 9, 2009)

I have to agree that I think it's borderline cruel to leave him in the basement all by himself for that much time. 

To each his own, I suppose.


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## lmkersnick (Jul 10, 2007)

Oh - our previous GSD (and now Bailey) was banned from upstairs in our home at first, until Mitzi was fully housebroken and more trustworthy.
Downstairs is not just a basement, but a gameroom, and so is comfortable for her and us humans. But I must admit, Bailey's been allowed upstairs earlier than Mitzi was...


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks for most of you whom have given me good advice and tips! I'd appreciate more too!

Please keep in mind we won't be bringing the crate in our bedroom. We bring him for potty breaks and he's only had 2 accidents to date since we've adopted him so all is going well on that level. I believe we're doing something right. We can't train him like some of you are, but if you have any OTHER type of advice that could help, I'm all ears!


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

Both my GSD sleep in my basement in their crates, they go in around 11PM at night and out at 7AM in the morning. They are both velcro dogs and very welbehaved and wonderful, no side affects from sleeping in the basement. The benefit is that it is really cool down their on hot summer nights and quiet. In the winter it is warm. They also don't here the thunderstorms or fire works which creep them out. during the day they are loose in house with me or outside playing. Only in crate if I have to leave and go some place but that is only for a few hours. all my dogs have slept in the basement prior. I just don't have room in my bedroom or can't handle any noises as I am extra light sleeper.


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## MassiChewSits (Mar 10, 2009)

Maya
And no said:


> I'm curious who and why you were told sharing your bedroom with your dog is a bad idea. I would like to hear the logic behind this as I'm about to bring home a puppy in a few days. I was going to crate our pup in our bedroom at night, but I wouldn't mind hearing another opinion on this idea.
> 
> I 've read a couple books that recommend sharing your bedroom with your dog(but not your bed). My thinking is that wolves/dogs in packs sleep in close proximity to one another. A puppy gets separated from its littermates when you adopt it. That sense of security a puppy has when sleeping with his litter probable is still a real need for him. My logic is: your are your puppy's leader and fellow pack member as he sees it- he derives security from being near you when sleeping at night.
> 
> I ask respectively: Why is sharing the bedroom a bad idea ? I'd like to hear the alternative view.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: headtripparadeI have to agree that I think it's borderline cruel to leave him in the basement all by himself for that much time.
> 
> To each his own, I suppose.


It's always easy to find something each owner does cruel, because everyone has a different opinion about everything... even when it comes to raising a puppy, to raising children. Some people think it's okay to leave them outside alone, but I find this wrong. Will I go around telling a new member in NEED of GOOD advice that what they're doing is cruel? Definitely not, but thanks anyway. Remember: this ISN'T a heated topic. I need help. If you have opinions which won't contribute to me raising this puppy right (and NOBODY can be perfect, please remember this) than please keep your opinions to yourself.


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## Chantell (May 29, 2009)

It has worked for me! Since I moved the crate from kitchen to my bedroom, no more crying, She just goes in and goes to sleep! In my experience it was NOT a bad idea


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Heidi WBoth my GSD sleep in my basement in their crates, they go in around 11PM at night and out at 7AM in the morning. They are both velcro dogs and very welbehaved and wonderful, no side affects from sleeping in the basement. The benefit is that it is really cool down their on hot summer nights and quiet. In the winter it is warm. They also don't here the thunderstorms or fire works which creep them out. during the day they are loose in house with me or outside playing. Only in crate if I have to leave and go some place but that is only for a few hours. all my dogs have slept in the basement prior. I just don't have room in my bedroom or can't handle any noises as I am extra light sleeper.


Yes, it's very very hot in the house, which is why we chose this spot in our house. It's nice and cool. On top of it, it wouldn't benefit my very young children if a puppy cried ANYWAY right beside their bedroom. They have school, summer camp, daycare to attend. They need their sleep. They're not heavy sleepers, so I can't keep him in our bedroom.

PLEASE, there are other topics in my original message that I need addressed. You're all wasting your time with this singular issue since we won't be bringing him in our bedroom. It's OFF limits.

The person who told us (several people, actually) are trainers at our local obediance centre with 35 years experience. Let this issue rest.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

When they are puppies, I got up and took them out for a pee break at around 3AM. They have small bladders and can't hold it long. Eventually the crying will stop but it can take a week. Bo took a week. He still act all excited when i let him out like he has not seen me in weeks.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Even if I put a gate up somewhere, because 'there's a barrier' there and he can't go wandering where he wants (when we need to keep him in the kitchen, for example, when we need to be somewhere in the house where we can't supervise him for his safety) he whines, cries and barks. It's the same factor with the crate. Because there's that 'barrier' there (i.e. door) that he can't get through/over, it's almost like separation anxiety.

His mother rejected him at birth and never fed her litter of 8. I don't know what happened at the other house from where we saved him and have no clue if they mistreated him. However, once again will I be clear that the second floor will be ooff limits to him, especially noting that we all know how big GSD get, so I need to ensure my KIDS SAFETY first.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Should I be bringing him potty every time he cries? I can imagine that at this age, if he cries for 15 minutes 2-3 times a night, this can't be THAT BAD, as I've read on this forum that other GSD cry for more than an HOUR at night. I don't want him thinking we'll get him every time he cries too.


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## Jeepnick (Jul 7, 2008)

This is the best explanation I have heard about a puppy crying from his crate...

The puppy wants to be with you. When he is trapped and alone in his crate, he is calling out to you saying "I'm right here! Come and get me!"

When you ignore him, he says "Dont hear me? Ok, I'll do it louder! RIGHT HERE!"

This is the puppy's age. He will eventually settle down, but dont count on it happening until he is about three times as old as he is now. Keep up with the positive reinforcement that "crate is good." As others have said, make sure he goes pee/poop before you crate him, and be prepared to let him out every 3-4 hours so he can relieve himself. The rest of the crying is just a plea for attention and to be with you.

As others have stated, it is usually easier for the pup to be with his pack while he is initially crate trained. This means in your bedroom. I crated Anubis (14 month old) in my bedroom for about a month, then moved the crate to the back room where he still sleeps to this day. If you are unwilling to do this, then you will have more difficulty crate training, but its still very doable. Just be prepared for lots and lots of puppy crying and don't give in to his crys if he has just been out to relieve himself.

As for limiting your dog to downstairs only, I can only say that I understand your wish to have the upstairs be private. I myself do not let my dogs in my bedroom. This is simply because I dont want them on the bed nor do I want them shedding hair in the room. This is easy to enforce because I can put a baby gate right at the door and if I'm in there, they can still sit at the door and see me. Anubis responds to my "out" command as he needs to go away from wherever I am - usually about 8 feet...he will go further if I repeat it. So if the gate is down, and he comes in, I give him a simple "out" and he will leave and sit outside the door.

You *may* find that limiting your dog to downstairs only will create behavior problems. Dogs are pack animals, and a dog that has been outcast from his pack will often act out. This is one of the reasons that many "outside only" dogs have barking problems and destructive behavior. They feel outcast from their pack, and act out. Limiting your dog to downstairs only *may* cause a similar behavior, especially if the rest of his "pack" is upstairs. I'm talking less about right now, and more about a year+ from now when he is house trained. 

I myself just brought home a new 9 week old pup last weekend. She is being crate trained in the back room - but she has the older dog to keep her company. This has made her "attention crying" almost non-existent.

Your mileage may vary. Good luck!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

I should be honest, the prospect of giving him the "right" to be on the 2nd floor where my 2 most precious beings sleep at night is very traumatizing to me. I'm an expect on cats, so I rely on my husband to make these choices. I wouldn't want him to learn that being upstairs is:

1) okay, and permitted and;
2) keep us all awake with his crying/barking because he will continue doing it anyway, even if he's 1 foot away from our bed.

The fact that he cries as soon as we CLOSE THE DOOR is the issue, I think, and not the fact of where the crate is located (but that's the feeling I get from the last 5 days I've been with him). I really really doubt to 200% certainty that hye will stop crying if he's 1 foot away from our bed, because the door to the crate will STILL be closed either way, and he will still be confined to the crate and not allowed to EXPLORE during the night.

Does anyone understand my concerns???


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

OK, Honestly I think putting a 7 week old puppy in the basement alone is not a good idea. Like stated before, they ARE pack oriented. And he just wants to be with you. I think maybe putting in a rag that smells like his mother/brothers and sisters might help if you have one. But isolating him at that age personally I dont think is a good idea. I would move the crate until he is settled in, put it in your bedroom and close the door. I think you will find having him in the bedroom isnt as big of a deal as you think it is.

I put Kyes crate in my room and he cried the first two nights I think. But after that he was fine. Now hes almost 5 months old and I dont crate him at night but I let him sleep in the bedroom. I close the door cutting him off from the rest of the house, he either sleeps on the floor near me or he goes in the bathroom and crashes on the tile cause its cooler, he doesnt have free range of the house at night thats for sure, but he will once he's older.
I travel a lot and when my girl is home sleeping and Im on the road Kye is my peice of mind. I hope and pray no one ever breaks in and tries to harm my girlfriend, I never want Kye to bite someone but if it comes down to them or us, I choose ..... Them.

You even said yourself the basement is cold and dark. Not somewhere I would want to sleep as a baby, would you? 

And of course he is attached to you, you are his life right now. You feed him, play with him and keep him safe. You are the best thing to him and one day he will return the favor. And of course he is going to cry when you put him in a crate, even a foot away cause you are seperating him. I truely feel that right now the crate is a scary place for him and it shouldnt be.

And you can usually tell the difference between the let me the **** outta here whining and the I have to pee whining. If he is peeing in his cage he is being left in there too long. He will hold it as long as he can because dogs will try very hard to not soil where they sleep.

Please dont think I am being mean, I know I can sound a bit abrasive at times but I am just being honest. I really think if you move his crate in to your room and tire him out just before bed you will see a world of difference. Just my .02


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JeepnickThis is the best explanation I have heard about a puppy crying from his crate...
> 
> The puppy wants to be with you. When he is trapped and alone in his crate, he is calling out to you saying "I'm right here! Come and get me!"
> 
> ...


So does this mean that he'll easily adjust later on if we would be to ... say, move the crate back down in the basement when he's older? I would definitely not want him to stay in our bedroom at night for the rest of his life!


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I used to think a lot like you - in fact, I had a strict no dogs in the house policy growing up and I thought that was the way it should be. Then I met dh, who talked me into a pup. First, I thought, the dog can be in the house but only on the tile, not on the carpet. Then I decided that was dumb, that she wasn't going to damage the carpet, and that I wanted her near me. I had a strict NO BEDROOM rule at first too - I thought it would be weird to have a dog in the bedroom, since I grew up with outside-only dogs. But we had A LOT of problems with crate training. So one night, we moved it into our bedroom, and guess what - no problems since. In fact, I am amazed at what I'm learning about dogs just by having her around instead of outside - she is so much more a part of our family than just a pet. I would never, ever, have another dog restricted to the outdoors the way I did when I was a kid. 

Now, your dog is inside, but he isn't near you when he's in the crate - he's as isolated as an outside dog. I know that you are firm on this, but dogs, GSDs especially, need to feel like a part of your family, not just a pet. If you would have asked me two years ago if I would have had a dog in the house the answer would have been a loud No Way! Now I can't see having them live in that kind of isolation. 

During the first few weeks puppies spend a lot of time in their crates - wouldn't it be nice if he could spend it near you instead of alone? 

Puppies will whine until they are comfortable in their crates, so yes, he will initially whine even if you are in the same room. It took us probably a month and a half to crate Minnie without her whining. But please understand that isolating the pup in the basement isn't going to help, it's going to make it worse. 

Have you read any books on training? This is a quote from "How to be Your Dog's Best Friend" by the Monks of New Skete, 2002. (I also recommend The Art of Raising a Puppy by them). They do not recommend the dog sleeping in the owner's bed, but in their bedroom:

"Night is a time when the owner and dog can have extended contact without demanding anything from each other, a time when most dogs make their own decision to lie down and relax with you, shut down, turn off, sleep. This, in itself, while deceptively uneventful, builds trust and confidence between owner and dog. Consequently, the in-bedroom sleep can be a great help if you are experiencing problems with hyperactivity, social isolation, lack of rapport, night barking and whining, or general unruliness. For the owner without much time a pet, it can be a final moment of contact and attention.

*"In the hundreds of "problem dog" cases we have worked with at New Skete, 80 percent of the pets slept outside of the bedroom, usually in the living room, basement, outdoors, or, significantly, just outside the bedroom door." *(Pp. 142).
(emphasis added)

Please realize that you asked for advice, and the people on this board are giving you the best advice we can. You can take it or leave it, but at least please be open to it - for the sake of your relationship with your dog. I never thought I'd have a dog sleeping in my room, now I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## Jeepnick (Jul 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Mayawhen we need to be somewhere in the house where we can't supervise him for his safety) he whines, cries and barks.


One additional note - and this wont help *right now* but may later on as you are trying to house train...

I found that keeping my pups on a leash which I then tie to my belt or keep in my hand when doing things around the house let me always keep an eye on the puppy and what he was doing (like sniffing for somewhere to pee/poop, or chewing on something he shouldnt) but allowed me to work on the computer, fold laundry, do dishes, cook, etc. without having to crate him for each activity. This way the pup can be free of the crate and with you, even when you arent paying *direct* attention to him.

I say this wont help right now because he likely is not leash trained yet.


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## HAROLD M (Mar 10, 2009)

i have one question for you ...why get a dog and leave it in the basement,to me that is like chaining it up outside all day , when it gets older and becomes a mean dog from lack of socialition and human interaction u no longer have a pet ,it becomes a problem ,i know i did the same thing when i was younger with my 1st dog i had a cage built in the yard and he stayed there all his life with walks and yes i fed him ,,but outside the family, he was a beast and not fun social at all .....this one stays in the home and now @7 months has free rein to go where he wants ..sounds to me like you just want a dog to say you have a dog not to have a dog for a family pet ...sorry if i hurt yor feelings but that is what others will think also reading your questions and replys ..good luck with the puppy....


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Maya
> So does this mean that he'll easily adjust later on if we would be to ... say, move the crate back down in the basement when he's older? I would definitely not want him to stay in our bedroom at night for the rest of his life!


You might change your mind...

After all, what's better than a built in fire and burglar alarm, right in your room?


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## Jeepnick (Jul 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: MayaSo does this mean that he'll easily adjust later on if we would be to ... say, move the crate back down in the basement when he's older? I would definitely not want him to stay in our bedroom at night for the rest of his life!


Absolutely - once you get him used to the idea of his crate being his special place...his resting place... a good place... he will most likely be happy to sleep there and spend time there alone.

The month Anubis spent crated in our bedroom was enough to get him comfortable with the idea of being caged in at night. We put him out in the back room after, and he never made a peep unless he needed to go potty. We would of course, wear him out to the point of exhaustion before bedtime..this way he is too tired to have energy to bark for attention.

*edit* I should add that Anubis was 14 weeks when we brought him home..which made him 18 weeks when we put him in the back room. A younger puppy may need more time to get used to the idea of being alone in the crate. Much of it is the age.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SlaenOK, Honestly I think putting a 7 week old puppy in the basement alone is not a good idea. Like stated before, they ARE pack oriented. And he just wants to be with you. I think maybe putting in a rag that smells like his mother/brothers and sisters might help if you have one. But isolating him at that age personally I dont think is a good idea. I would move the crate until he is settled in, put it in your bedroom and close the door. I think you will find having him in the bedroom isnt as big of a deal as you think it is.
> 
> I put Kyes crate in my room and he cried the first two nights I think. But after that he was fine. Now hes almost 5 months old and I dont crate him at night but I let him sleep in the bedroom. I close the door cutting him off from the rest of the house, he either sleeps on the floor near me or he goes in the bathroom and crashes on the tile cause its cooler, he doesnt have free range of the house at night thats for sure, but he will once he's older.
> I travel a lot and when my girl is home sleeping and Im on the road Kye is my peice of mind. I hope and pray no one ever breaks in and tries to harm my girlfriend, I never want Kye to bite someone but if it comes down to them or us, I choose ..... Them.
> ...


Thanks, actually the way you've said it made me feel a bit better to the idea of it. I'm scared. This is all new to me and I'm thinking down the line he'll think it's okay to free roam the house and go in the kids room, get on them and crush them! After all my kids are only 4 and 6!!!

I HATE HATE HATE hearing him cry. I also hate the fact that I put a gate up and he cries just because he's trying to get attention, when I was told that you can't ALWAYS answer to his cries. But I'm a mom. If it was me and no kids around, I'd have him in my arms all the time. That's what I do when I'm the only one around him. He's always cradled in my arms like a baby (and maybe that's bad... and I know one day I won't be able to do this anymore). I don't know if you ALL have young children, but put yourself in my shoes. I can be sleep deprived... my husband surely can handle it... but a 4 and 6 year old????? HA HA HA! Not happening! THEN you've got a greater problem!

The idea of having him with us scares me to death. I'm being honest. Someone make me feel better about this. I can't see anything positive coming out of it. If someone can shed some positive light on it, please PLEASE help.

IS IT NORMAL that he cries when he's limited to a space and can't explore? Is he being a cry baby? i.e. baby gate in kitchen and he cries his head off... even when I go outside and he's up 3 stairs and can't yet get down them, he cries cause he can't be beside me! I know GSD need to be with their pack and I can imagine he sees me as his new mommy and wants to always be with me, but don't I need to control this somehow?????


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Not yet, but we let him run around with a light leash and he now puts it in his mouth and carries it around (even if it's attached to his collar) He bites at it at random times and obviously scratches at the collar, but he's doing pretty good. Thanks for the tip!!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Woah woah there, that's NOT the case! He plays with us first thing in the morning for 1 hour before we leave for work, I take my lunch time and go play with him instead for 1 hour and he spends another 2 hours playing with us in the evening. I think we give him better socialization and bonding time more than A LOT of dog owners you'd cross path with!!!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Do you have young kids?


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## Jeepnick (Jul 7, 2008)

Much of the crying because he cant be by you is basically tantrums. Think of the kid at the grocery store screaming his head off because mommy wont buy him a candy bar.

But unlike the kid who has been spoiled in the past, the puppys need is ingrained in his very soul. Dogs are pack animals. He really *needs* to be with you. At seven weeks, no amount of ignoring him will make him stop. He will only stop when you A) come get him, or B) he exhausts himself.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: MayaI should be honest, the prospect of giving him the "right" to be on the 2nd floor where my 2 most precious beings sleep at night is very traumatizing to me. I'm an expect on cats, so I rely on my husband to make these choices. I wouldn't want him to learn that being upstairs is:
> 
> 1) okay, and permitted and;
> 2) keep us all awake with his crying/barking because he will continue doing it anyway, even if he's 1 foot away from our bed.
> ...



I completely understand where you are coming from. The crying can be frustrating but it will pass. He is only a baby and all babies cry. Put yourself in his place, he was just taken from his mother and litter mates, he doesnt even know you all that well yet but he is counting on you to take care of him. I promise the crying will pass. It just takes time and adjustment. I mentioned before putting a rag that smells like home is a good thing. If you can call the breeder or where you got him and see if this is available if you dont already have one.

I really think you should read up on how loyal your puppy will be to your children when he gets older. He would gladly give his life protecting either of your children, considering you guys his pack means that no one will harm them or you on his watch. You really do not need to worry about him being on the same floor with your children at night. If you are that terrified of him being around your children then I feel you should research exactly what kind of dog he is, it will put you at ease. 

Just make sure you train him correctly and lay down the correct rules and you will have the best friend you could have ever asked for. And to be honest I have heard of more cats attacking infants and babies. 

Please do a little research on German Shepherds and their loyalty I think you will be suprised.


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## Chantell (May 29, 2009)

Maya, I got my pup when she was 8 weeks,she is now almost 15 weeks. I crated her since day 1. Always had her crate in the kitchen, Last week I moved the crate because her crying was NOT stopping, I could not figure out why, I came to this site, everyone thought I should put the crate in my room, I know, I know, you said NO to this, but I have to tell you since I moved her, she has not cried, the first night she did, but since the second night,,,,,, NO CRYING!!!! This does not mean she will always sleep in my room, but as being a pup this is helping her. Her crate is about 3 feet from my bed. Just wanted to shed some light on that for you. My pup and the rest of my family sleeps better at night with the silence we get now. Good luck what ever you decide to do.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

For those who think we're CRUEL and got a dog for the fashion and novelty, I could give you a piece of my mind but won't. We got him 5 days ago and I AM SEEKING help and advice. Did you come to realize that there are probably thousands of owners out there mistreating their pets and abusing them? Do you REALLY think that's what we're doing to our previous new addition? If so, please keep your opinions to yourselves. You're obviously NOT parents to young children. I not only have to take Bailey's life and future in consideration, but need to ensure my own FLESH AND BLOOD continue thriving and growing up, get the 10+ hours of sleep they need at night to thrive and grow up to be wonderful children. I think we're doing a pretty amazing job, so please stop judging. I'm NOT beating him am I? Am I starving him? Am I killing him? NO. So some of you might want to stop acting like we're irresponsible owners. I'm here to get the knowledgee I need, but also remember that I've never owned a dog in my life and was raised with 8 cats. My husband wanted a dog for the last 8 years and I've agreed to this, but I'm also new to this and don't appreciate some of the comments I've gotten. Be constructive. By telling someone they're cruel just because of their decision to raise a pet (same as children) a certain way doesn't give you the right to bad mouth them. If you want to help, do it in a polite constructive way. PLEASE, that's all I need right now, good positive advice. I surely wouldn't want to leave this board and try to do this without any help -- Bailey wouldn't be better off that way.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Chantell34Maya, I got my pup when she was 8 weeks,she is now almost 15 weeks. I crated her since day 1. Always had her crate in the kitchen, Last week I moved the crate because her crying was NOT stopping, I could not figure out why, I came to this site, everyone thought I should put the crate in my room, I know, I know, you said NO to this, but I have to tell you since I moved her, she has not cried, the first night she did, but since the second night,,,,,, NO CRYING!!!! This does not mean she will always sleep in my room, but as being a pup this is helping her. Her crate is about 3 feet from my bed. Just wanted to shed some light on that for you. My pup and the rest of my family sleeps better at night with the silence we get now. Good luck what ever you decide to do.


Thanks. This scares me.

I might try it tonight. I really don't like the idea though.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Im going to send you a pm ok.. keep an eye open for it.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

The other reason why I have to be careful is because the basement is sound proof and our bedroom isn't, and we live in a semi attached to another house.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

#1 Sleeping in your bedroom only works to improve the bond between you and the dog. The dog feels like he's a part of the family and he feels secure. To each their own... If someone tells you that letting a dog sleep in your bedroom is bad because blah blah blah, they're thinking with the whole "alpha" mentality. Because you are alphas... the dog shouldn't be allowed in the room. Well...yea. There are very opinionated dog lovers on this forum







We hate to think of a puppy all by itself all day, and it doesn't make sense in our heads when someone says "It's a bad idea to do such and such".

#2 It's not a "bad idea" to have his crate up there and then make it off limits during the day. You simply have to enforce the house rules...
For example... My puppy sleeps in her crate, in my bedroom every night. One night I let her up on the bed with me and we slept that way for a few hours. At around 2am. I got tired of her moving around and put her back in her crate. She's never made a move to get on the bed without my permission. Why? Because one of my rules in the house is no getting on the furniture unless I invite you up, it's enforced so it works.

#3 It's OK to keep a dog in the basement or kitchen... All puppies are different. And yes they do make a lot of noise at night. It is a little cold, since they're all alone and then have to be alone all day, but as long as you exercise them and pay attention to them during the day, it's fine.

#4 You taking him outside when he whines will not spoil him... If you're not letting him relieve himself and he messes his crate you are only teaching him bad habits. My puppy cried to be let out in the middle of the night and I took her out, let her potty and put her back in. She's never messed her crate and she isn't "spoiled".

#5 His mother rejecting him at birth has nothing to do with it. He's going to cry when he's away with you because... being VELCRO dogs they want to be where you are. It's going to take time, but he will get used to it. You might want to invest in a stuffable Kong toy and Peanut butter.

#6 There are very opinionated dog lovers on this forum







We hate to think of a puppy all by itself all day, and it doesn't make sense in our heads when someone says "It's a bad idea to do such and such".


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## Chantell (May 29, 2009)

Let him get used of the noises, we sleep with the tv on, and before we fall asleep me and my fiance always talk about something, and it does not bother her one minute. I really think it makes our pup feel safe just knowing we are right there for her. In fact she used to be scared to death of thunderstorms, had one since we moved her in our room, the storm came, Of course I was scared, but she never woke up! I was amazed. I really think she just feels safe, and it makes me proud to know I can make her feel that way


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## Mcoupe (Jun 20, 2009)

The puppy won't cry while crated in your bedroom with you nearby unless she has to potty.


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## HAROLD M (Mar 10, 2009)

playing with him a couple hours a day is not the same as taking him for walks or letting him run around outside compared to the long hours alone in the basement,,,,and yes my brother and sister in law use to live with me and there 3 kids 12, 4, 2yrs old, when i got him as a puppy and i take him everywhere with me ,mine cryed when he was that young also its normal if he dont have to pee/poo ignore him,he"ll stop all iam tring to say is socialize him a lot ....not just with thefamily or friends with everyone for now...keeping him in the basement at that young age ,all your doing is prolonging the exploring ,and telling him it is not good to go upstairs ,so when or hopefully u wont need him to, do his job(protect) he most likely wont becouse he isnt familier with the rest of the home or is afraid to enter the rest of the house ...thats if you plan on keeping him in the basement all his life ,,,thats all...bedrooms are cool to let the dog sleep in ,just not the bed or on your person stuff ,ie robes, pillows ,blankets ....to make it easier for you and the ears of your family move the crate ,he"ll be outta the crate before you know it ...i would put in a heavy traveled room like the kitchen or living room,,,,always touch him while he eats and drinks this stops and provents food agression...i wasnt being wise that is what you where displaying by saying he is to remain in the basement and isnt allowed upstairs ....good luck you"ll see he will become an awsome dog if trained correctly ...


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Maya, you did ask for advice, if you don't agree, that is entirely your perogative, but since you are new at this, I worry that you may be setting your dog up for the very behavior problems you are concerned about. The information I offered is from my reading and experience about what makes a healthy, happy family companion.

THere have been some great threads in the photos section about kids and dogs. If a dog is well socialized with kids--yours and others, they can be incredibly gentle, but it is something to keep an eye on, especially as a pup gets bigger and has a puppy brain in a big dog body.

You are certainly not abusing your dog and are to be commended for resueing. Please understand though--dogs, especially a VERY family-oriented dog like a gsd needs bonding with family to be healthy--it is not food and water but bonding and being with family is hard-wired in to them.

I have fostered a lot and dealt with some trainers and they agree--the difference in the behavior of a dog who is socialized with and around family--not isolated, is ususally significantly better than a dog who is left outside or isolated from family much of the time.

You can certainly look at moving his crate another time when he's older--think of a baby, how some parents keep the crib in their bedroom or on the same floor until the child is older, a puppy IS a baby--has different needs than an adult dog and they ARE very needy and time consuming. I sympathize with the lack of sleep, trying to figure out if a whine is for attention or for a real need to pee, and the hyper behavior. I'm exhausted.

But this is critical development time for your pup. Pups go from baby to adulthood in about a year--they learn and integrate information and responses fast, so you want to do it right--it's easier than undoing it later.

I do have strong feelings about dogs needing to be part of the family and household-especially at puppyhood, and tend to voice those strongly as well. It is a big responsibility for a family and I always caution people to think HARD before taking home a pup, as it does require so much work--and I am glad you saved this little guy.

I can tell you again---I have tried it different ways as well, the more time my pups and dogs have been around and part of the household, the healthier, more confident, better behaved they have been. They love to listen, watch, be involved or just hang out with family. This of course does not mean they have to be all over your house, but optimally, as much a part of your family as possible.

some wonderful friendships have been formed when dogs sleep in rooms with their people--or kids. Not on the bed--though I confess to doing that, but you have a wonderful opportunity to really have a great pet, and a lovely experience for your children to grow up with one.

I think that a lot of what you are reading here that you are struggling with are the strong feelings of people who HAVE done it or seen it done different ways, and have drawn conclusions from that.

That, and also the knowledge of how incredibly sensitive these dogs are--they long to be devoted to you utterly, and long to be wiht you, especiallly at this age, when they have never been alone before. Toys are not nearly as interesting as the company of your family and the chance to interact with them. Every interaction with your family is a learning opportunity as well, since there ARE a lot of challenges with a pup--their desire to mouth everyone and everything being a challenge that comes to mind.

I worded my post strongly because of seeing how strong a dog's social needs are, how hard isolation is on them. And yes--it's doggone hot--here too and I think that pups tend to have a high internal thermostat. 

You have saved this little guy, and now you all deserve to be healthy AND happy with your new undertaking. Some good reading suggestions have been made here, I wish pups came with an instruction book. Since they don't, I appreciate that you are interested in doing the best you can and being open--possibly--to rethinking some of your positions. It's not just for the dog's comfort and happiness--it's for a dog who is the best-adjusted companion for you, your kids and visitors as well. And that takes a big commmittment to do the right way, and some creative thinking sometimes.

You are a good mom to be concerned about your kids--again I encourage you to keep an eye on the "pictures' section--there are often great posts of dogs laying lovingly and gently with babies, kids, etc. These are often dogs who have had a lot of work, time and thought put in to how to acclimate them to family life.

I wish we could get "pup-ernity" leave from work to be home at least the first few weeks with them.

When you can, post pics of your little guy, if that is him in your avatar, he's a cutie.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Harold is right.

Take him as many places as you possibly can.
Let him meet as many people as possible as well and other dogs.

Dont worry very soon you will see there is nothing to worry about. My cousin would leave his infant supervised on the floor with his GSD over some people he knows. No lie.

Its all about socialization and obedience.


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

I apologize for my typos--I'm trying to get too many things done at once. I was reading your schedule with your dog--and it is hard to get a day's work in and get playtime in--leisure time is hard to find!

I am reading a book called "My Smart Puppy." I don't know if--from your post, that your pup is out of the crate four hours a day and in the crate the rest of the time---if so, I will just pass on from this book, which is written by two trainers (you'd think I can remember their names now, wouldn't you--margolin? margolis?) who have done good, humane work for years.

They specifically say that if a pup spends 20 hours a day in a crate, the pup is much more likely to grow up to be an undersociailized dog with behavior problems.

This is a challenge for me--as I also work. For the time being, I realize that most of my spare time needs to be spent with the pup--like you, an hour in the morning, an hour at lunch and after work--whew--I am so happy to finally get to bed after entertaining the little one. But it's getting EASIER....now, after just a few weeks, she is MUCH calmer--and happy to sit by my feet with a bone, or snooze by my feet when I'm on the computer. She does not go in her crate while I'm home at all unless it's on the weekend and she needs a nap, or I am trying to do chores (she chases the mop!)

My nights are not really my own right now, but I'm thinking of it as in INVESTMENT in the future happiness of my household--a well-adujusted dog=a happier home for your family.

I'll stop now...must have had too much coffee and am repeating myself.

Best to you and your family, don't wish the heat away--it finally got warm here in the northeast!


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Maya check out this video of a nine year old child and his GSD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bROr3zby3jw

Also this one of a little girl sleeping on her GSD and when someone comes in the room he doesnt know.. he protects her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjjjGQfA9Xc


best dog breed ever..


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Maya, reading all this makes me feel for your pup. He will not crush your 4 and 6 year olds! I hope you read as much as possible, threads here are helpful for new pup owners. 
This is the most important imprinting time of your puppy's life and hopefully he will get the confidence, love and nurturing from you to succeed. _Housetraining_ will take time, patience and more patience.
I have an 18 wk old pup and he was also crated at night in the bedroom from the beginning. I crate him in a high traffic area during the daytime. If you cannot give this puppy the proper foundation to have a healthy successful life, you may re-think having a dog at all. You want advice, but only advice _you _want to hear. What everyone has written is spot on, and it is for the puppy's benefit. Please heed it...and welcome to the wonderful world of owning a GSD. They are truely special!


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Heres another good one.. Read the comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlmizGAC00M&feature=related


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## HAROLD M (Mar 10, 2009)

iam not saying leave the puppy or dog alone with a human baby or child of any age ever!(for both of there safety)!!!that is a no no,all iam saying is isolating him from the kids altogether will make the kids and dog not bond at all and both will be fearfull of each other once there all grown up exspecially the dog dogs at 7 months old some younger are way more powerful then any full grown human will ever be its just that they (the dog ) dont know this ) which is lucky for the kids and humans .i have a pic posted under dogs and kids and i was right in the room with them , i never leave both the kids and dog alone together,i trust the dog and i trust the kids ,but together i dont want the dog to accidently hurt, nip the kids and i also dont want the kids to hurt my doggie ....if the kids and dog bonding is done correctly once the dogs protectiveness kicks in (2yrs old) they will have nothing to fear no one or nothing will be able to harm them ,,,,lol that is the joy of owning a german shepherd dog,,,,


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## HAROLD M (Mar 10, 2009)

you are correct ,,,,my neigbhors boxers 2 males spend most of theday around 18 to 20 hours in their crate ,he works alot and all differant shifts and both will not listen at all to anyone , and when there out of the crates they rip the house apart, an also fight with each other , the big one which is also the younger one and stronger one (3yrs old ) bite my nephew(4yrs old) in the begining of the spring this yr ,,my brother and his kid (my nephew) went back there to help the owner with a pool filter and the dog was let outta the house and went right for him and bite him in the waiste,,,,hes ok just scared of dogs now ...and is full of nightmares ..


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## Jeepnick (Jul 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SlaenTake him as many places as you possibly can.
> Let him meet as many people as possible as well and other dogs.


One note on this... The puppy should not be put on the ground in public places, nor handled by strangers whom might have been in contact with other dogs (unless they wash up first) until she has received at least two puppy shots.

All kinds of highly contagious nasties out there that can make a puppy very sick until they have had their shots.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Do you use the crate any time OTHER than at night?

Look at it from the pups point of view. You put him in the crate and then leave him there, alone, in the dark, for 6 hours (from 7 pm to 1 am).

That is a REALLY long time to expect a puppy to go without having to go and it is also a bad start to crate training.

I don't care how fun you make going INTO the crate - when he gets IN he knows what's going to happen. You close the door and leave him in the dark.

I would start putting the pup in his crate at different times during the day for different amounts of time. 5 minutes, 15 minutes, an hour. Don't let him think it's ALWAYS a loooong time in the crate.

Also, I would look at a different placement of the crate. You say you do not want the dog upstairs. I'm assuming you mean on a second floor?

You have a basement and a second floor - what's wrong with the first floor? Kitchen, maybe? It's close enough so that you can HEAR when the pup cries (which CAN mean he has to go potty).

As for letting the dog sleep in your bedroom - that's a personal choice and something none of us can say is right or wrong for YOU. 

But I have to address the statement that it is a "VERY bad idea" to have a dog in your bedroom so others will understand that it is wrong.

I have had Shepherds for over 15 years now and every single one of them had the CHOICE of sleeping in our bedroom and ON OUR BED with us if they wanted. That's SIX German Shepherds, all had the CHOICE of sleeping with us. Some did, some did not. Some slept on the bed, some preferred to sleep on the floor in our room. In our current pack of 5 dogs only one is NOT allowed to sleep outside a crate. That's Sasha and it's because of her counter surfing and cat litter box raids when unsupervised.

Mauser, Kaynya, Tazer and Winnie all have the option to sleep with us - and the cats (3). And I have NEVER had a problem with any of them because of it.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Okay, here goes.

I do want what's best for Bailey.

My kids are #1 though. You can't blame me for being worried.

Now, I'm giving this a try. I really appreciate most of the advice I got here, but some people were really rude, especially at this delicate phase of our lives trying to adjust to a new member in our family -- and being new on this board.

Now, he ate earlier. It's not 9 p.m. and he's in his crate. We played and got him RE-USED to it for the last hours. I pimped it up with a real nice mat at the bottom and put on some waterproof mat on top just in case. We bought two new toys and he's completely in love with them too. Actually, right now, he's completely knockered out and sleeping. I put a fan about 4 feet away from it too to make a breeze; I think he likes it.

I'm REALLY AFRAID of what might happen during the night. REALLY.

Anyway, here are some pictures:

Playing with a new toy









Numming on a Carebear blanket my daughter gave him









& taken 1 minute ago... knocked out... lol









I hope it will last, and he won't have a tantrum like the 5 last nights.

Thanks for the advice guys! This has been an emotional roller coaster for me. I've been worried about this since Saturday and we feel as though we're starting parenthood all over again. We knew what we were getting into, but we just didn't remember it.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

By the way we can't bring him anywhere yet. #1 the vet refused to give him shots before 8 weeks and #2 he had an infection, a scrape on his top lip got infected from the previous home and it started 'eating' at the skin, so he's on antibiotics right now until Monday (when he turns 8 weeks) and then he gets his 1st round of shots. We only let him roam in our backyard; if not, he's in my arms or my husbands to avoid contact with other dogs.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

He has tantrums because he is a puppy and he is alone
we are not trying to be mean we are telling you like it is, you want him to be a part of your family then don't separate him that just causes problems down the road.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Oh puppies sleep alot anyway


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Bailey is adorable! I am glad to hear your vet won't give the vacs yet. The fact that he has an infection, some vets would still opt to give them. If he isn't doing better by the scheduled time on Monday, I would still wait, as his immune system may be compromised. And like Dawn stated, the problems down the road start now~set him up for success by proper foundation and there will be very few if any problems.

There are some great threads on what toys to get for pups, chewing is what they love to do! That stuffed toy may get ripped apart along with the blanket, so be warned. Towels are better, easy to wash and they don't have the plush fiber that can be dangerous if pup decided to eat it.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Hi!

Welcome to the forum and glad you are posting!

I have skimmed and have read repeatedly statements like this, "I'm REALLY AFRAID of what might happen during the night. REALLY." 

I am unsure what you are afraid of. If you could clarify that, I am hoping we can be even more helpful. 

What an adorable tiny baby puppy! Yes, you do need to watch soft bedding and toys-puppies can eat them and get obstructions.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: Maya Because there's that 'barrier' there (i.e. door) that he can't get through/over, it's almost like separation anxiety.
> 
> His mother rejected him at birth and never fed her litter of 8. I don't know what happened at the other house from where we saved him and have no clue if they mistreated him.


Someone had to raise the pups if the dam wouldn't feed them or they would have died. So it could be that Bailey is very attached to humans. You would be surprised the things that imprint in puppies little brains. First his momma shuns him, then someone took care of him, now new humans are shunning him. He is scared right now to be alone in a dark place away from humans.

Your kids will be safe if the pup is raised with the kids and learns his place in the pack. But right now he needs security. If he doesn't get the security he could grow up to resent the kids, he could grow up to be a nutty basket case. Right now he needs love and security so he can grow up to be a secure self consident pup.

Val


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Yes--it is "puppy amnesia" I seem to recall it being MUCH easier in the past, but already, in three weeks, it's a ton easier than it was then.

Remember that at 7 weeks, he *Should* in the ideal world where he did not end up in a shelter before you found him, still be with his littermates, learning all kinds of important puppy things. So he is having an extra hard time being alone and adjusting. It is really a 'baby' age and while I try to resist anthropomorphising them, they are analagous to babies in many ways, and thrive on as much interaction as possible, the sights, sounds, smells of your family nearby.

I did not intend to say that you meant anything but the best for him, from what you had written at that point, it did seem that unintentionally, while trying to learn what was the best approach, the best choices for him were not being made. People do things all the time that are inadvertantly cruel, from not knowing any better. If I am ever doing something to an animal that is unknowingly even close to cruel, I would very much want to know. I think you are expressing a lot of care for your pet and do want him to be happy. My apologies for the strong wording and any implication that you INTENDED to do anything bad for your pup. 

Your expectations of him did seem unrealistic to me, given his very young age, and I was concerned that perhaps you didn't realize how strong his social needs are. 

If you ever read the threads on dogs needing rescue, so many of them are not from having been abused or declined food and water, it is from having been raised without the level of training, knowledge and socialization a big, smart dog needs, and having resulting behavioral issues--not at all of the dogs' making, that cause people to give them up. So yes, I may express concern for the dog first and put social niceties second, and am sorry if I offended by expressing that without a filter.

It is a lot of work and even more so when you have little kids around. But so, so worth learning about and maybe rethinking the parameters you had set for the situation. Your family's reward will be a safe, well-adjusted dog.

He is adorable and will be a handsome dog. Isn't it nice when they are tired?


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Hey Maya! Just remember, people here are really passionate about their dogs or ANY dog for that matter, what they type may sound harsh, but remember typed words can't convey the emotions behind them.

Anyway, getting separated from their littler can be traumatizing for any pup, but your pup is really really young (for good reason) and this is especially traumatizing. Being near you will probably greatly help her now and down the road.

Your pup will probably wake you up once or twice during the night cause it needs to go potty. This is the best way to teach potty training, pup wines, goes outside, potties, gets praise, goes back to bed. 

I'm not sure what you're so scared of, the pup should be no danger to your kids, and you'd be amazed at what kids can sleep through. 

Good luck!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

JenniferD --
I felt hurt, but a lot hurts me lately since I feel so unknowledgeable on this subject -- and I am. I know everything about cats, but nothing at all about dogs... and this experience is making me feel very nervous. Call it anxiety, I guess..

Thanks a lot for your help, advice and care. I know you also mean the best and I truly appreciate your sympathy.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm guessing he is loving this new experience (and the fan!)


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Soooo...

If he wakes during the night, it's most likely because he needs to potty? I thought we had to ignore their cries? Or do I just wait until he stops his cries before we take him out the crate?


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

There's a good chance that's what he needs, at that age their bladders can' hold nothinl


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

It's 10:20 and he's whinning. We already just brought him pee and put him back. I think (and I'm guessing) he might be thirsty. Should we still let him drink water right before bed? Or before he goes potty?

I'll get used to this, one day.

We bought him a pool today. I'll find out if he likes it tomorrow.

That should wear him out.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

He'll be fine without water til morning, but he will need a couple of potty breaks (as stated above) thru the night. That is one reason it is easier to have them nearby, you can get them out, back in without the hassle of going downstairs. That and when the pup whines, just putting your fingers for him to smell will calm him down, knowing you are near.
A varikennel type crate may be more secure feeling for him,too. You may be able to borrow a smaller one for a bit(from the rescue)? Craigslist has them listed often, too.
Or you can cover his crate w/ a sheet to give him a den like atmosphere.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: MayaI'm REALLY AFRAID of what might happen during the night. REALLY.


Why?







Honestly, I don't get how your kids would be in danger if the puppy were crated in your bedroom at night vs isolated from his pack in the basement. Nobody is suggesting that you should let him rampage through the house at night - quite the opposite. A puppy that young is probably going to need to go out at least once during the night, and maybe twice, for a few weeks or more. How are you going to know he needs to go out if you can't hear him cry? If he's allowed to eliminate in his crate he'll get in the habit of doing so, and then you'll have a devil of a time housebreaking him. Once a puppy gets over his/her aversion to eliminating in their den, which is what his crate is, it's very very difficult to get him to stop. 

I've always crated my puppies right next to the bed. Sure, they fuss at first, but they are comforted by our nearness, our scent, and the sounds of us breathing, so they settle down and sleep. He's used to sleeping all squished together with his littermates, imagine what a difficult transition this is for him. And as others have pointed out, he knows that once he goes in that crate you're going away and leaving him alone - of course he starts crying immediately! Dogs are very good at making associations. My dogs know by what shoes I'm putting on if I'm going to work or maybe somewhere fun that they get to go to too. 

I understand your concern for your children, truly. But if you are so afraid of a tiny little puppy (or the adult dog he will grow up to be) then maybe it's best that you rehome him, and that is not intended in a mean way. Whether your fears are rational and well founded or not is really immaterial - it's the way you feel.







This puppy is going to need to be trained - puppies bite, puppies chew, puppies need to be supervised constantly, and they are a lot of work. You have two small children and according to you were not really on board with this whole thing in the first place, so I wonder if you're willing and able to take on that kind of commitment. Personally, I can't imagine having an animal in my home that make me fear for the safety of the other people and animals that live there.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

If you haven't seen this picture thread you should check it out: Kids and dogs 

There are some really sweet pictures of kids of all ages, including babies, with German shepherds. A puppy raised right can be a wonderful companion to children.


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Maya--you have more in the knowledge department than you give yoruself credit for--you are treating him with a good vet, you have good equipment, toys, a caring heart and he looks WAY comfy with his fan--that little belly is adorable.

I have done this before, have had amazing, wonderful dogs that I think grew up well in spite of , rather than because of, me. Yet I am also worried that I'm doing things wrong with this new one, and am tired and anxious. 

Frankly, I think some of it is lack of sleep. I anticipate her needing to get up, I don't sleep soundly, I try to figure out if she is wanting attention or has to pee and then I worry if I'm reading her right. I think being tired and knowing that the night will be interrupted, contributes to anxiety. And you have kids to balance as well.

No small task!

I think you are brave to ask for advice and again, I'm sorry for wording things the way I did. There is a fellow at work with a grown gsd who he keeps locked in the bathroom all day, the dog destroys his bathroom, is getting agressive, is 40 pound overweight, and today he came in and announced they are getting a new puppy!!! ARGH! So I was overcharged on the subject. It is clear that you want to strike the right balance between your pup's needs and that of your family--not easy.

I wish I could be home all day with mine--and sometimes feel selfish for being a "working mom" to her when she is so young. 

Grab up some books from the library or get them cheap online and read--information is your best weapon against anxiety. Too many people don't know...how much they don't know. You are anxious to learn and do the right thing. I think I could read for weeks and still worry, but it helps enormously to be informed.

In spite of the lack of sleep, have FUN with your pup. I am tired, but having a wonderful time and she is turning in to my little buddy, way calmer, more content. They are smart dogs and learn fast with consistency. We are working hard on the bite inhibition now--she wants to put her mouth on my skin and clothes--and she has done great as long as I follow what I've read here and in my SMart Puppy book.

Your pup sounds very smart---I think that between his brains and cuteness, your desire to do the right thing and learn, you guys will be okay.

Off to bed...for a few hours at least!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=985525&page=1#Post985525

one of the cutest threads on baby and dog...........very gentle dog with a baby, and they both want the same toy. Baby wins.....

Some great folks here with amazing dogs. It's not easy, I don't know if I could do with with small kids around....I'm not that good at juggling, but some have with great results. I respect their experiences and opinions and have learned a ton from them.

Cute thread though, cut and paste if it does not open.....


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## GSDinOly (Apr 19, 2009)

Hi Maya, I just wanted to give you some comforting words. I can see the stress and worry you have over your puppy, and I can understand that. It will be ok. I'd like to ask you to make him a very large part of your family and never fear him. He will be your best friend. He will protect all of you! He is JUST like a human baby right now, with the same needs. He will not hurt your children. Puppies nip and bite when playing, but the kids have to be taught by you that that is what puppies do, and we all can help you in that area if those things like nipping happens to correct the problem. But that's the worst you'll encounter! In order for him to know the children, and feel as one of the family, they must interact. This is very important, I promise you. IF your children sense you are affraid of the puppy or what could happen, the puppy will sense that too. I promise it will turn into a mess. You are at the right place here at the forum and these people know the right things, and they have kids too







I think, honestly, if you are not affraid, things are going to go much better down the road. It is VERY hard to hear puppies cry! I wanted to cry! I lost MUCH sleep. But it's normal. It WILL get better. ( my pup is 4 months old now)If you must crate in the basement, I'm not going to judge you, but I will recommend the advice to check the puppy often and take him out to potty often in the middle of the night. Closer to you is better, because it will illiminate problems when they are adults. There are several NOT good behavior problems caused by separation. THEN you have things to worry about...I am just being honest, but respect what you have to do. Oh, and put him to bed when you go to bed. Wear him out by playing and training as much as you can. Train him with your children so he knows not to jump and nip, etc. You'll do just fine, we are just very serious about our dogs is all here, but overall this is the place where GSD owners know best. I hope you get time to read all the posts on this forum, they were lifesavers for me, and having a puppy is new to you so you will learn tons. You might want to get some books also to learn about the GSD and all of thier great attributes.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Hey Maya,

I just wanted to stop in and see how this was going before I hit the sack.

I see you are still worries about your puppy at night with your children and that is understandable. You have nothing to worry about. I truely believe in no time that fear will be gone once you see your puppy grow with your children. 

If you need some information I dug this up to help you out.
At work I do alot of Youtube surfing and this guy here trains dogs and has really good ideas on positive training. I really truely love this guys method of training and ideas on it. Take a look at some of his videos.

http://www.youtube.com/user/eletendre1



Here is some info on the breed.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/germanshepherd.htm

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/germansh.html

I would recommend grabbing a GSD book from your local library or petsmart and just do a little reading and I am sure you will be suprised and what a great dog you have.


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## HAROLD M (Mar 10, 2009)

Lauri and the Gang ,i had to laugh when u wrote becouse of her counter surfing andcat litter box raids when left alone ....to me thats funny iam sure to you it not ....but the way you wrote it it was funny....


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JenniferDMaya--you have more in the knowledge department than you give yoruself credit for--you are treating him with a good vet, you have good equipment, toys, a caring heart and he looks WAY comfy with his fan--that little belly is adorable.
> 
> I have done this before, have had amazing, wonderful dogs that I think grew up well in spite of , rather than because of, me. Yet I am also worried that I'm doing things wrong with this new one, and am tired and anxious.
> 
> ...


 Thank you so very much, you have no idea how good it feels to have a feeling that what you're doing is in fact okay and that you're on the right path.

I've looked for books on GSD everywhere and all of them have very bad reviews. I'm still seeking "the ultimate" book to buy from Amazon or something so I have a good book to rely on for my questions! This is why I signed up to this board. The members do seem very friendly!

I'm a cat lover, that's my confession. I did agree to get Bailey because my husband is a complete dog lover, especially GSD's which made us save Bailey in particular. However, I'm hoping to grow and love him as much as I loved the dozens and dozens of cats I grew up with during my short life. I'm an animal lover, but the fear of the unknown overwhelms me sometimes! I consider myself very maternal, but have read so many conflicting information on how to raise a well-behaved GSD that it's all very confusing.

Thanks for the link! I'll check it out tonight!

I need to post an update.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: GSDinOlyHi Maya, I just wanted to give you some comforting words. I can see the stress and worry you have over your puppy, and I can understand that. It will be ok. I'd like to ask you to make him a very large part of your family and never fear him. He will be your best friend. He will protect all of you! He is JUST like a human baby right now, with the same needs. He will not hurt your children. Puppies nip and bite when playing, but the kids have to be taught by you that that is what puppies do, and we all can help you in that area if those things like nipping happens to correct the problem. But that's the worst you'll encounter! In order for him to know the children, and feel as one of the family, they must interact. This is very important, I promise you. IF your children sense you are affraid of the puppy or what could happen, the puppy will sense that too. I promise it will turn into a mess. You are at the right place here at the forum and these people know the right things, and they have kids too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Know what I realized? 

"He is JUST like a human baby right now, with the same needs." This is what I never realized, how close of the bond is and the need to be with his 'pack'. I was told is was completely okay to leave him in the basement. I'm trying to learn everything at once with Bailey, like a test drive, but I can't afford to crash! It's very overwhelming at times. My children are very well-mannered and respectful little beings, which we strongly believe is a direct result to how we've raised them -- but my experience and instincts on how to raise them might not be the same as other parents. This stands the same for Bailey. However, I AM OPEN to suggestions, especially since I know very little about this breed in particular.

About my children, I'm thinking of when he'll weigh more than my girls' combined weight! He's going to get HUGE, and I've only seen living proof of this Saturday -- so I've only had 6 days to get used to this reality... of how BIG he will get! I tried to convince my husband to get a chihuahua... didn't work! LOL He said, "I want a REAL dog! A dog that is going to be there for us!" lmao! (and his quote is not meant to hurt anyone)

Bailey nips and bites the girls right now and on top of it they've never had a pet so this is all new to them too, so I'm also having to guard them, make sure they don't hurt him, and ensure also that they're safe. I know he's playing!... but him biting is making them very fearful right now, and in turn makes me very anxious!

Thank you for the kind words!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You are so right, they are just like babies. And yes, you have to protect all three of yours, so they get their relationship and bond off to the right start!
I think you will do just fine.
Chihuahau's can be just as nippy, and they sometimes stay that way their whole life, where the GSD will outgrow it once the teething stage is finished. 
GSD's are loyal, humorous, not to mention gorgeous and will be a great addition to your family. Keep reading the threads here, there are jewels of information in every one! 
If you look at the homepage here there are several great book suggestions.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Ok. *An update...*

When I logged off, he had started to whine for about 20 seconds and laid back down and went to sleep. My husband laid in bed, he lifted his head, laid it back and went to sleep. Then I closed the light. He got up, looked around, and laid back down. Then I got up and laid in bed, and he just looked and then went back to sleep. I was shocked. My heart was beating. I was mostly worried about him crying, waking up my girls and any neighbour in earshot (still not sure if the firewall acts like a sound proof barrier -- if so, great!)

During the night was... in all honesty... shocking! I just don't know how to put it. KNOCK ON WOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! x1,000,000. I heard him 'whimper' once, so I made sure to move in bed and made a sighing noise to let him know I was around, and he went back to sleep in a matter of a minute or two. HE WAS QUIET ALL NIGHT. In fact, I woke up at 3:55 a.m. and looked, he was sleeping on his back again and let out a huge grunt like he was comfortable, and so I woke up my husband and asked him to bring Bailey out to potty. He wasen't even whining to go! That's why I'm thinking "knock on wood!" since I'm sure this wouldn't be that easy every night!

My husband brought him out, he went pee, brought him back in and put him in his cage. Bailey laid down right away and started playing with one of his toys, trying to catch his tail and grab hold of his I.D. tag. He 'whined' a few times from about 4 to 4:10 a.m. but he went back to sleep, not sure at what time since I was asleep within seconds!

I remember moving a few times during the night. In my head I was thinking it was good to move around to let him know we were still here, cause it's pretty dark is out room. It wasen't the type of whine he usual does to get out or "go" though. So maybe he's trying to get our attention? He would do this right after we've brought him potty.

And then we had to wake him at 5:30, even if our alarm went off, he didn't wake up. He was pretty happy to see us, we opened the door and he was wagging his tail at 100 mph as always, but actually stayed in his crate for a minute or two until we told him "come on!".

So that's our experience of night #1 with Bailey.


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## Chantell (May 29, 2009)

YAY!!! Don't you feel good that you made him feel safe in the night???That was the first feeling I got when I moved Chyanne to my room. The members on here know their stuff!!! Good Luck hope everything works out!!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

I just wish they were more respectful in the way they told me and didn't make me feel like the most irresponsible owner in the world.

Nowas I sit at work the only thing I worry now is if he's in his crate barking the heck out of the neighbourhood. Does anyone know if a firewall between semi's is thick enough to be soundproof? Our neighbour is on maternity leave right now and has a baby, so I know if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't be a happy camper is there was a dog barking all morning.

However, it would be hard to imagine him crying and barking until I visit him at lunch, especially after the wonderful night we just had.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JenniferDI apologize for my typos--I'm trying to get too many things done at once. I was reading your schedule with your dog--and it is hard to get a day's work in and get playtime in--leisure time is hard to find!
> 
> I am reading a book called "My Smart Puppy." I don't know if--from your post, that your pup is out of the crate four hours a day and in the crate the rest of the time---if so, I will just pass on from this book, which is written by two trainers (you'd think I can remember their names now, wouldn't you--margolin? margolis?) who have done good, humane work for years.
> 
> They specifically say that if a pup spends 20 hours a day in a crate, the pup is much more likely to grow up to be an undersociailized dog with behavior problems.


By the way, he spends the night in his crate... yes. He also spends from 7 a.m.-12 p.m. in his crate (5 hours) and from 1-3 p.m. (2 hours) in his crate, so a total of 7 hours in the day (because we're both working adults). I can imagine most of working people do this, as letting him outside alone would (to me) not be safe, and inside the house... well, I wouldn't want all of our new house or brand new furniture munched up, which again could be a safety hazard to him, choking and all.

Therefore to us the crate seems like the safe place to be.

We don't have a safe room we could leave him in all day anyway... and beside, to keep him confined in a room would in no way be different than the safety and comfort of his own bed (crate).


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## Chantell (May 29, 2009)

Sometimes when the members type things on here, it may seem harsh, I felt that a few times also, BUT, I kept reading what they typed, tried it, and guess what, it worked! ohhh the work worries,,,,, lol, trust me, I do this EVERYDAY! Wondering what shes doing, if shes sleeping, playing, sometimes I can not stand it! He will get used of it, they need a routine, well it works for me anyway. If I get out of routine, Chyanne just looks at me like "mom whats up with you today" lol. Do you know your neighbour good? Give her a call later and see if she hears anything.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

They moved in their home about a month ago, so no we haven't really gotten really close. The other day they came out and asked us the type od dog he was and congratulated us, but I couldn't really tell if they were mad or not (not that it's really any of their business) But our road is under construction and there's constant construction noises and rock blasting, so if she WOULD complain if ever he was to cry, then we'll know they;re not really great neighbours.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Maya we were not trying to bash you at all only trying to help as Chantell stated we are passionate about out dogs and only want the best for yours. 

I am so happy you moved him now he will feel as part of the family, I personally want to apologize if I was bitchy. Sometimes tuff love is want you need especially if you have never had a pup before and a GSD to that fact. 

The pup will be nippy and that is just during teething stage just say no or ough to pup and have your children do the same he will learn. 

I feel so much better knowing he is in your room I really thought you would end up rehoming him

agaun we were not being mean we were just trying to embed it in your head what he really needs at this stage


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

No. Tough love is what you give a rebellious child who needs a reality check, not a newcomer in the world of GSD ownership, but that's my opinion. I know you meant well though.

The fact is that members here need to also respect others also in the fact that not everyone might agree or accept to move their new family members into their bedroom, and this does NOT in any way mean they are CRUEL owners. My bedroom is off limits to my children in our home, so I saw it as being off limits to our new little one too. Even when my children were young, I have never gotten them used to sleeping in my bedroom from the first day they were home.

Some might need to realize that my post was in no way to spark controversy, but that some members here treated it that way -- which shouldn't be. I know people are passionate about dogs here.

However, there are limits -- same as raising a child.

Would you want someone to force down your throat that if you don't breastfeed your child or let them sleep next to you in bed, you're a bad parent? Same with animals, guys. Don't force it down their throats. Do it in a respectful and polite way next time! Please, so not to scare new owners away from this board, when they're only seeking help and support in this new journey.

Why would I rehome him? When I had my daughters, they are part of the family, no matter what good or bad obstacles you face in life. This is how we've welcomed Bailey; a part of our family. We don't give up family; we make changes in our lives so that we can accomodate ALL family members, and not only the puppy (as some don't realize the gravity of importance when it comes to young children and keeping a normalcy in their day to day routine)

I appreciate the help and we'll see if this keeps up and really works for our family. To date, for the past night, it has done wonders. However, we still don't know if any complaints will be launched. We're hoping we have a good sound proof wall, OR very sympathetic neighbours whom will be as patient as us.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Congrats on the first night!! 

I think the reason a lot of people got defensive was how firm you seemed on keeping him where he was. But we have all been there.

Now we can leave it to Bailey to win your heart.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I'm so glad to hear Bailey had a good night! These dogs love being near their people, regardless of their age. It's a great thing about the breed!

The good thing about getting Bailey used to sleeping/navigating the second floor, is by the time he's a big boy, it will be the norm for him. You shouldn't have to worry about him going in and pestering your kids cause he'll just go to his crate for bed.









You'd also be amazed at how gentle this big dogs can be with little ones. We don't have kids, but we've made sure Anna is around them--and she loves kids. She's a completely different dog around my nephew, so gentle and watchful. It's a great characteristic of the breed! Once you get past the puppy/alligator phase they make great playmates!


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi!

Glad to see it's going well! Just remember that a pup that young will have a very tiny bladder and will need to go potty often. 

Also, you seriously need to stop freaking out and letting anxiety mess with you, because 1. - It's not good for you, and 2. - your pup KNOWS that your anxious and can associate that anxiety with himself, which can cause behavior issues. Try to be happy about having a pup, know that everyone makes mistakes, do some reading, and just enjoy having this new family member. He's not going to grow into a vicious, child-eating beast unless you raise him to be. Seriously. If every time the pup goes near your children you stress you, he's going to sense that and he may start to associate your being stressed out with the kids, which is exactly what you don't want.

Lots of people here have children, lots of people here live in apartments and duplexes; please stop worrying and just enjoy your pup.


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## angierose (Apr 20, 2009)

I think you're doing a fine job with such a new experience, Maya. I've always had cats as well. My family had dogs when I was growing up but I wasn't really involved with them. So Kaylee is my first dog as an adult, and I've had to learn a ton really fast. 

Some of the stuff I was taught growing up is now frowned upon, but it's somehow ingrained in my head. Grabbing a pup's muzzle when they bite, for instance-- been guilty of that. I've made some mistakes, but dogs are really forgiving. I've trained myself probably more than the dog! I was paranoid I had "ruined" her somehow, but she's over four months old now and a pleasure to be around. She plays well with our elderly small dog and sniffs the cats too much for their liking but doesn't chase them. 

One small suggestion I'd make is don't leave his collar on while he's crated. It could get caught on something or he could chew it up or get it stuck in his mouth.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SlaenCongrats on the first night!!
> 
> I think the reason a lot of people got defensive was how firm you seemed on keeping him where he was. But we have all been there.
> 
> Now we can leave it to Bailey to win your heart.


And I completely understand that, Thanks for your help!!!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: aubieI'm so glad to hear Bailey had a good night! These dogs love being near their people, regardless of their age. It's a great thing about the breed!
> 
> The good thing about getting Bailey used to sleeping/navigating the second floor, is by the time he's a big boy, it will be the norm for him. You shouldn't have to worry about him going in and pestering your kids cause he'll just go to his crate for bed.
> 
> ...


That's the thing though that I believe people don't understand, we do not want him to get "used" to navigating the second floor since it will eventually be off limits to him! We NEED, for the sake of my sanity, enforce this rule in the future -- but I am able to be felexible while he's a pup. We put in $10,000 of soft hardwood flooring in our new house when we had it built a year ago, which also has a little influence on this decision BUT the major reason is that there are a LOT of dangerous things for him to play with upstairs. We have no choice to set this rule later on.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: MinnieskiHi!
> 
> Glad to see it's going well! Just remember that a pup that young will have a very tiny bladder and will need to go potty often.
> 
> ...


I'm not at all anxious or nervous when he is about the kids, but his biting has its own effect on them to make them nervous being around him -- but that's another topic all together.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: angieroseI think you're doing a fine job with such a new experience, Maya. I've always had cats as well. My family had dogs when I was growing up but I wasn't really involved with them. So Kaylee is my first dog as an adult, and I've had to learn a ton really fast.
> 
> Some of the stuff I was taught growing up is now frowned upon, but it's somehow ingrained in my head. Grabbing a pup's muzzle when they bite, for instance-- been guilty of that. I've made some mistakes, but dogs are really forgiving. I've trained myself probably more than the dog! I was paranoid I had "ruined" her somehow, but she's over four months old now and a pleasure to be around. She plays well with our elderly small dog and sniffs the cats too much for their liking but doesn't chase them.
> 
> One small suggestion I'd make is don't leave his collar on while he's crated. It could get caught on something or he could chew it up or get it stuck in his mouth.


Thanks a lot for the suggestions. I really hope he grows up to be a lover!


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: MayaNo. Tough love is what you give a rebellious child who needs a reality check, not a newcomer in the world of GSD ownership, but that's my opinion. I know you meant well though.
> 
> The fact is that members here need to also respect others also in the fact that not everyone might agree or accept to move their new family members into their bedroom, and this does NOT in any way mean they are CRUEL owners. My bedroom is off limits to my children in our home, so I saw it as being off limits to our new little one too. Even when my children were young, I have never gotten them used to sleeping in my bedroom from the first day they were home.
> 
> ...


unfortunately when you don't know what you are doing you need tough love a puppy is like a child but can't tell you in words what he needs. So no need to get bitchy when we are trying to help you! We have all been through it and you asked sorry we don't sugar coat things we tell it like it is!!

I am sure Bailey will be a very loving caring dog


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Anyway, I will leave this post die down and put my attention to my other postings since this seems to be work in progress. I'll post an update in a few weeks! For those whom were supportive, thank you!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: MayaWhen I logged off, he had started to whine for about 20 seconds and laid back down and went to sleep. My husband laid in bed, he lifted his head, laid it back and went to sleep. Then I closed the light. He got up, looked around, and laid back down. Then I got up and laid in bed, and he just looked and then went back to sleep. I was shocked. My heart was beating. I was mostly worried about him crying, waking up my girls and any neighbour in earshot (still not sure if the firewall acts like a sound proof barrier -- if so, great!)
> 
> During the night was... in all honesty... shocking! I just don't know how to put it. KNOCK ON WOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! x1,000,000. I heard him 'whimper' once, so I made sure to move in bed and made a sighing noise to let him know I was around, and he went back to sleep in a matter of a minute or two. HE WAS QUIET ALL NIGHT. In fact, I woke up at 3:55 a.m. and looked, he was sleeping on his back again and let out a huge grunt like he was comfortable, and so I woke up my husband and asked him to bring Bailey out to potty. He wasen't even whining to go! That's why I'm thinking "knock on wood!" since I'm sure this wouldn't be that easy every night!


AWESOME!







May we indulge in a moment of "I told you so?"
















I didn't read every single word of every single post - there were a LOT of posts and I was at work yesterday and didn't have time, but from what I saw it wasn't that people were trying to be disrespectful to you or treat you badly, they were sincerely trying to help, but were getting frustrated that you had decided to follow what most of us there think is bad advice (dogs should not be allowed in the bedroom) and seemed unwilling to reconsider this decision. The housebreaking, the crying, the concern for your children - all of those things can be addressed by the bond and relationship you develop with your dog, starting now, when he's just a baby puppy. Having him with you and the rest of the family as much as possible is the best way to accomplish that. 

I'm really glad that you stuck around and decided to try something different, and especially, that you got such positive results so quickly. Just because someone who has owned dogs for a long time and seems to have a lot of experience says something doesn't mean they're always right. You'll find when it comes to training methods, those are often the people who are still training dogs the same way they did 30 years ago and ignoring all the recent developments in training based on what we now know about how dogs learn. 



> Originally Posted By: MayaThat's the thing though that I believe people don't understand, we do not want him to get "used" to navigating the second floor since it will eventually be off limits to him! We NEED, for the sake of my sanity, enforce this rule in the future -- but I am able to be felexible while he's a pup. We put in $10,000 of soft hardwood flooring in our new house when we had it built a year ago, which also has a little influence on this decision BUT the major reason is that there are a LOT of dangerous things for him to play with upstairs. We have no choice to set this rule later on.


There are definitely things you can do to keep your kids and your possessions safe from your dog other than just banning him from the second floor - teaching him house manners (rambunctious play is for outdoors only), teaching him what is and what is not his (constant supervision while he's young, proving him with plenty of chewtoys of his own and redirecting him away from your stuff), and having him continue to sleep in a crate in your room once he's an adult, or once he's trustworthy and housebroken, to close the door to your room to prevent him from bothering the kids at night. I've found that my dogs get accustomed to sleeping in their crates and prefer to use them. With Cassidy I would have LOVED to eliminate her crate, but she liked it so much that she'd nap there during the day, and sleep there at night even though we never closed her in anymore. Keefer will be 4 years old next month and he still sleeps in a crate in our room. But it's your house and you get to make those kinds of decisions. I just hope that you're willing to reconsider this one at some point in the future as well, and you may surprise yourself - if he grows up to be a well trained, well behaved, calm friendly dog you might find that he's perfectly okay having the run of the house, and as long as you don't leave him alone with your kids, you may feel comfortable letting him have more freedom and actually enjoy having him around all the time. 

When my puppies were young I often closed them up with me in the office because it's a small room and it was easy to keep an eye on them. They couldn't wander off and get into trouble without me noticing. Unfortunately there were lots of things for them to get into. With two computers, two calculators, a typewriter, two printers, several desk lights, and various sundry other things that plugged into the wall there are a ridiculous amount of cords for a puppy to chew! At first it was a constant battle to keep them away, but it wasn't that long before they learned that that was not allowed and left them alone. My puppy Halo just turned 8 months old and I can't remember the last time she went for an electrical cord - although she WILL still eat the toilet paper if we leave it on the roll, LOL! If I had made the office off limits they may have never learned that those cords hanging down so enticingly were not puppy toys, but by giving them supervised access to the room I had the opportunity to train them to leave them alone.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys MomAWESOME!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LMAO! Yes Yes... I know...



> Originally Posted By: Cassidys MomI didn't read every single word of every single post - there were a LOT of posts and I was at work yesterday and didn't have time, but from what I saw it wasn't that people were trying to be disrespectful to you or treat you badly, they were sincerely trying to help, but were getting frustrated that you had decided to follow what most of us there think is bad advice (dogs should not be allowed in the bedroom) and seemed unwilling to reconsider this decision. The housebreaking, the crying, the concern for your children - all of those things can be addressed by the bond and relationship you develop with your dog, starting now, when he's just a baby puppy. Having him with you and the rest of the family as much as possible is the best way to accomplish that.
> 
> I'm really glad that you stuck around and decided to try something different, and especially, that you got such positive results so quickly. Just because someone who has owned dogs for a long time and seems to have a lot of experience says something doesn't mean they're always right. You'll find when it comes to training methods, those are often the people who are still training dogs the same way they did 30 years ago and ignoring all the recent developments in training based on what we now know about how dogs learn.
> 
> ...


Now, the next thing is not at all towards you Cassidy's Mom! You've been a wonderful help and I thank you for it. Now, on another hand: 

In fact, some people called me CRUEL from leaving him in the basement, when people do NOT realize on here that 1) thousands of dogs and puppies are kept in the basements every day, for sometimes almost 24 hours, 2) that I'm not abusing my puppy, therefore did not warrant such judgement and, 3) "CRUEL" to me is used towards owners who abuse their dogs/puppies, run puppy mills, do not feed or care for them, leave them outside all day without interraction, etc. Cruel was in NO WAY the right wording to categorize us as the owners of Bailey. If we were cruel, I wouldn't be here in the first place seeking positive support and advice. So YES, people were very disrespectful. There's no such thing as "tough love". I could easily leave and do whatever with my dog and be a b**, and treating me as such won't help the situation either way. Some people really need to calm down and start realizing that there is "animal cruelty", and then there is "lack of knowledge". I only got him 6 days ago. Now if I didn't inform myself in months and months, and didn't go by it the right way, yes it would be irresponsible and cruel for me to have continued raising him without the proper knowledge and education needed to raise him to his highest potential. Hope that makes sense, I'm French.









Now regarding the rule of our second floor, I'm thinking of when he'll be HUGE. We have tons of electronics upstairs which are very expensive and can't be locked out. That's why we want him restricted to downstairs. Mind you I am saying this since it's our 1st experience with a dog, and I might grow to love him so much we'll let him sleep in our bed (god forbid that, I WILL NOT allow it, imagine the problems down the line...) but you get my point. I might end up just letting him have free roam of the house. I don't want my $10,000 floors destroyed within a year though. LOL I'm being honest. I tried making him wear baby socks and he takes them off (obviously, fun to play with). I'm thinking that if we keep clipping his claws, that they'll be minimal damage... or so I hope?

Since I haven't seen the effects of training on a dog, this makes me very skeptical of the effects of certain rules like no chewing the electric cords, no jumping in the bathtub while the kids are bathings, etc. KWIM? I'm a complete newbie at this, so I'm sure SOME people can understand where I'm coming from -- I'd understand how hard it would be for dog-owning veterans to put themselves in my shoes.

I just came back from visiting him and spent 1 h 30 with him and brought him to my parents house. He loves being around people! He doesn't know how to walk down stairs and yaps but he's a pro at running up them. When I got home he was crying, of course! That's what I thought. I couldn't hear him outside, but there's construction beside my house so we'll be more in a position to tell tonight if his crying can be heard from outside (to give us a perspective of if the neighbours can hear him). When I told him, "Crate" to signal that I'm ready to go, I put him down in front of it (not inside) and he went in quickly and laid down right away before I had time fixing the blankets and toys properly. I had to keep taking him out 3-4 times to fix them before he got in and settled down. I think he likes the crate if the door is opened (so he can be free to wander out if he wants) but as soon as you close the door he stands up. I'm sure he'll get used to it though. He gave me lots of kisses this afternoon too, so I'm sure he's a very happy little guy.


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## GSDinOly (Apr 19, 2009)

Maya, this is awesome news!! Yeah! And you know...the thing is, a GSD can be trained in anything. Multi purpose they are...so all of those things you don't want chewed and touched he will learn from you not to touch or chew. We also have those things, but in common areas like the bedrooms and living room, all on one floor, so she learned not to touch and she knows her toys are HERS, nothing else is. They are really smart, and he'll learn all of these things so you won't have to worry much Watch the wagging tail though....those things clear a table in half a second. I put my pup in her crate if I have to do something where I cannot keep an eye on her, like shower or like vacuuming. She herds the vacuum anyways, so it works out good. Other than that she is very trustworthy in the house.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks everyone!!!!


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Sounds like he's starting to like his crate!









You'll find that GSD, like kids, will tend to ignore things they are allowed near. The more you make something "unreachable" the MORE they want to investigate it!!









The only thing we do is make sure there's nothing she can knock off the coffeetable. Other than that, she basically leaves everything else alone. I assure you, if my hubby felt his baby (aka the flat screen tv) was in any danger I'd know about it!!









My laptop, cords, and my hubby's other baby his Playstation 3, etc is left within easy chewing range, but as a little pup we taught her to leave those alone. She has tons (and seriously TONS) of toys and she knows she can play with those. If she wants something she goes to her toy basket. You'll be amazed at how fast they learn what's theirs and what's off limits.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: aubieSounds like he's starting to like his crate!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL! That's why I thank GOD we mounted out flat screen high off the ground directly on the wall. He won't be able to reach it.







We finished our basement after 3 months of having our house built and hd made a toy room for the kids. It's FULL of toys. I can imagine he'd have hours of fun in there. lol But it sucks since there are small toys he might choke on.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Oh, I bet he would love that room! But just think, when he's older I'm sure your little ones will have him dressed up for a tea party in that room....I'm sorry, the thought of a giant GSD wearing a bonnet being pampered by two little girls is cracking me up!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

You must not have any furniture with the tell tale signs of teething children I take it?Did you pen your children up while they were learning about there house? Did your children chew cords? It's called supervision and not crying over spilt milk. To each is own I guess.None of this would fly in my house with animals or kids..My kids weren't penned up,things got broken and things got ruined.Just the things that go alone with kids and animals.


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

Maya,

Glad to hear things are going better with your puppy.

You might consider a kong or some other type of puzzle solving toy that you can stuff with treats or even his morning meal. That is something that will help keep him occupied during the time in the morning when you're at work. If he's busy trying to get the treats/food out of the toy he won't be barking. I've done that with my puppy and it works wonders for the time when we have to leave him at home by himself. He is also in a crate during that time. 
We don't plan on letting him have freedom in the house until much later.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Maya, I haven't posted on here yet, but I read through most of it and I am happy for you for making the decision to take him into your room.
They do need a pack to feel secure, and the more time he spends around you and your kids, the less you need to worry about him having any issues with them in the future.

I myself just got a 7week old on the 21st of last month, even when I've owned GSDs all my life IT IS CHALLENGING AND TRYING to do this right, but we will get through it! lol

I think I misunderstood you, is your home a one story or two story? One meaning it has an upper floor and a basement, two meaning basement, upper floor, and an upstairs. 
If you have a one story I would just make one suggestion about keeping him in the basement when you can't supervise:
If he isn't upstairs most of the time he will never learn how to behave up there, and the harder it will be to keep him. Right now my pup, J, is confined to our kitchen, he is only alone in their when he is asleep so I know he's not chewing, if we leave he goes in his big old crate with a chicken flavor nylabone, he only gets this bone when he's crated, so he associates it with the crate. 
(I can currently hear J baiting my 7 year old niece into playing with him, and by the sounds of it he's got one of her shoes...)
If your guy is mostly in the basement, if he does come upstairs he will be much more likely to be destructive, it's a new area full of new things!

And as for your concerns about him hurting your children as he grows, they are dumb, they know when they are hurting them and won't smother any of them!









Good luck! We are both going to need it to get done with the puppy experience with our sanity


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: AllieGYou must not have any furniture with the tell tale signs of teething children I take it?Did you pen your children up while they were learning about there house? Did your children chew cords? It's called supervision and not crying over spilt milk. To each is own I guess.None of this would fly in my house with animals or kids..My kids weren't penned up,things got broken and things got ruined.Just the things that go alone with kids and animals.


Things don't need to get broken if there are set rules.

My kids never broke anything in our house. Ever.

Kids don't need to break stuff and ruin stuff to enjoy life and learn life values!

I'm sorry, but I'd rather set a rule of setting some limits, then replacing something that's worth more than a year's salary. And chewing an electronic cord CAN be very dangerous, which is also why we keep kids out of rooms with wiring, and put baby gates up. God forbid I keep my family safe, right? Ha. And your comment about my kids being penned up was uncalled for.

Thanks anyway!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: WoodrebMaya,
> 
> Glad to hear things are going better with your puppy.
> 
> ...


He has a kong, thanks though!

We were told to put treats especially made for kongs, or to put a tbsp. of PB in it. He loves it. We've done it once though, since I was waiting for confirmation of if this was ok or not.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I was asking not accusing.Did you use playpens or gate? So your kids aren't allowed in the livingroom,kitchen ,bathroom or diningroom.All I am saying is raising dogs are the same way.You want to keep them safe but let them make mistakes to learn.If you keep your kids and dogs away from anything that is potentially dangerous how are they going to learn what is safe and what isn't?


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: APBTLoveMaya, I haven't posted on here yet, but I read through most of it and I am happy for you for making the decision to take him into your room.
> They do need a pack to feel secure, and the more time he spends around you and your kids, the less you need to worry about him having any issues with them in the future.
> 
> I myself just got a 7week old on the 21st of last month, even when I've owned GSDs all my life IT IS CHALLENGING AND TRYING to do this right, but we will get through it! lol
> ...


Nope! We have a finished basement (finished it a few months ago after we moved it), 1st and second floor.







Thanks! I'm sure we might let him wander once a while, but it won't be a regular thing for SURE! There's too many things in all the rooms upstairs that could hurt him. He's allowed in the basement and 1st though, but he mostly stays in the kitchen and has a pad there that when we say "Bed!" he goes and lays down on it and munches a toy.


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## Chantell (May 29, 2009)

Peanut butter is a life saver in my house at times, I dont fill it all the way, I just put enough where she can get the taste and put it in the freezer.... Chyanne will do any command for this treat!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: AllieGI was asking not accusing.Did you use playpens or gate? So your kids aren't allowed in the livingroom,kitchen ,bathroom or diningroom.All I am saying is raising dogs are the same way.You want to keep them safe but let them make mistakes to learn.If you keep your kids and dogs away from anything that is potentially dangerous how are they going to learn what is safe and what isn't?


Either you're being sarcastic with me, or you really think I'm dumb. lol My kids aren't allowed in our room, because our bedroom is a private room! We no longer have baby gates anywhere since my kids are old enough now to know right from wrong. Chewing on an electric cord to me sounds like the equivalent of letting your child stick a fork in an electric outlet! "Let them learn from their mistakes!" See, I'm not like that. Some parents might take that chance, but I won't. 4 years ago I lost a cat due to him getting an obstruction on something dangerous. I know, a cat, not a dog, but same concept. It obstructed his intestines and perforated them, and he needed emergency surgery. He died. My baby. If I could do anything in the world to bring him back I would. I took it hard. Accidents happen, but if I could do anything to keep my family safe, I WILL enforce them. Yes, a little protective, not OVER protective, but enough to avoid a catastrophe.

Electrical wires are dangerous and can kill. Little girl toys can make an animal choke and die. I learned from 1 mistake and won't ever make this mistake again, and nobody is this entire WORLD will ever convince me that I am a bad owner or parent from setting some rules in my house to ensure that my kids are protected from harm, same for my pets. My kids don't go play outside alone, and nor will Bailey. My kids don't go in the bathtub alone, and nor will Bailey in the future, if needed be. I'm a pro-active parent and owner to both my children and new little member of our family and believe me, if I need to restrict Bailey from going in a room where he could potentially eat something dangerous, I sure as **** will make sure he doesn't have access to that room!

But that's just me. Let your dog chew a wire, take that chance. I won't. That's what makes us different as mothers. Why people do this -- play shotgun with life -- is beyond me. If we were to lose him, that would cause all of us great suffering, which can be avoided.

Yes, kids can learn from their mistake... but only those mistakes that won't put them in danger.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Peanut butter is fine, it's really good when you freeze it or yogurt when he starts teething. putting a bit of his kibble in it is also good.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

I make frozen yougurt with peanut butter and honey Aubie

But I have to think things will get broken with children, DH and animals 

Things get broken in my house and there is nothing to do but laugh life is to short and things can be replaced

I have friends over and thier kids go into my bedroom I DON"T CARE they are happy I am 

That is why you watch them!!!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I understand about cats too.They are just as precious as dogs and kids.I have a cat at the hospital right now that I am trying to save after being hit last week.She may have kidney damage and I'll do all I can to get her through it.Just like my kids or dogs.Just for your info none of my animals or kids have chewed wires or broken big ticket items.I supervise and don't let them.Have fun when your 80 lb dog grows up not knowing right from wrong.Have a good life.This just shows how different our world really is.It takes all kinds to make the world go round..


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

I raised three girls from birth to adults with GSD puppies thru GSD adult, it is a wonderful experience. Go look at the thread in pictures forum called kids and dogs it is wonderful!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

You can't supervise 24/7. If so, you're superwoman!

And he will know right from wrong, as does my kids, but there are other ways around it other than riskking your pet's life and/or health for them to learn a lesson. And kids don't learn from 1 mistake. They need to make that mistake several times before learning that it's wrong. My 6 year old makes a lot of mistakes -- that's the beauty of life, but know what? They're not life-threathning. Your post felt like it was written with little emotion, other than for your pet.

See, another dramatic example: I won't let my daughter cross the road... and you know, if she gets hit, she'll learn from her mistake. Come on! Same thing with small toys, electrical wires, even the stove! Don't touch! Don't go there! No! Reinforcing the rules! It's not all about hands on. Dogs aren't that dumb, and I'm sure that by repeating "OUT" when he's about to go somewhere he's not allowed, he'll eventually listen. Really... Gosh! I'm just speechless. How many times would some people let their dog choke on something until the dog learns the lesson?

Cause it'll take more than once!

To what length will people go and risk it? Death?

Not me, and if I need to risk him being a little bratty -- so be it.

I'm done with this. Debate somewhere else.


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm so pleased that you gave it a try in the bedroom--even more so that it worked. Knock wood, it's a hopeful sign. I imagine Mr. Bailey was very relieved to have his family nearby while he snoozed. I hope it's the start of many more calmer nights. The longer I have my girl, going on 11 weeks old now, the more contentedly she snoozes and I love to watch her. 

I also prefer that my dogs not go upstairs--I have a two-level home with a basement and the bedrooms are upstairs---the majority of the time. It is less vacuming!

I have chosen--works for me, not everyone--to have my adult dogs sleep where they choose over the years, but I encourage them by putting cozy dogbeds where I want them to sleep--always works. They have typically just come up to go to bed right at bedtime, not to roam around upstairs. They ended up putting themselves to bed as soon as we got upstairs. One dog actually decided she didn't want to be upstairs and wanted to stay downstairs on her dogbed at night. As your pup grows, you will see what works for you and your family. I have gotten to where the quiet snores of my dog(s) help ME go to sleep and I miss them when they are not in the room.

I have to tell you--I made the mistake of putting in soft hardwoods downstairs and now they are um, "rustic" from having been scratched. My mistake.

There are great threads in the puppy section and information in puppy books--not necessarily GSD books, but good dog behavior books--on teaching bite inhibition, etc.

I think most dog trainers tend to say that it's as or more important to teach the humans--the dogs usually catch on.

GSD's are very fast learners and VERY anxious to figure out what we want and do it. Problem is, we sometimes give them the wrong input and elicit and reinforce the wrong behavior.

I have had to tell anyone who comes to see my puppy NOT to play with her by pushing her face, sticking their hand in her mouth, snarling at her, etc. And these are ADULTS mind you. Puppies play bite with each other--it's a means of communication and interaction. We don't want to have people unintentionally mimic puppy play and let our dog think that they WANT to be played with by play biting.

So I show people where and how to pet my dog. Funny, but the kids seem to learn faster than the adults!

I teach them NOT to hit or slap her-even lightly--if the does nip. Puppies mouthe things, EVERYTHING. And if somebody has given her the wrong cues, she will do it more. So slapping them confuses them, can scare them and make them aggressive.

The best advice I've seen and it works is to say "OUCH"--the puppy learns that teeth hurt....and then stop playing or interacting with the pup--turn and ignore them. Fun over. The pup learns that nipping a human leads to no more playing. They WANT to play. ALso have lots of toys on hand so you can redirect your pup to bite on something acceptable. 

I agree that there are lots of safety hazards and watch her closely--especially around cords. But I've had to accept for the time being that there is a baby in the house and for a few months, I will be finding random socks in strange places, stolen rolls of toilet paper unfurled and I've had to train MYSELF to close my closet so the shoes don't get "borrowed." And the muddy pawprints! Eek! It's like kids who get grassstains from playing hard--she loves to play and get wet and run in dirt and I can't expect her to wipe her feet.

I'm glad that you *may* end up a dog lover. They are amazing. And as you grow to love them, you may better understand the context in which some of the comments were made, a context that you may not have been exposed to at this point.

The tragedy is that millions of dogs end up in shelters and killed each year due to people who brought home pups for the wrong reason--I am generalizing here, NOT referring to you. But this is the world of dogs and there is a dark side.

People get a certain dog because they like the look, the size or it's macho or they saw one on tv or saw them as kids and they get an idealized view of how that dog will be. So they get a puppy without knowing anything about their needs and the work it takes to raise them. The novelty wears off and soon the dog, who has been fed, watered not much else, is relegated to a back yard or bathroom or crate. The dog often becomes aggressive or destructive and are given to shelter due to 'behavior problems' that the owner created!! 

Literally MILLIONS Of dogs are killed in shelters who are beautiful, senstive, smart dogs who were not given the time and expertise they needed. If you look on the rescue threads, your heart will break in two just reading and seeing these desperate, sweet faces needing help--through NO fault of their own. Funny--not many people intended to be cruel to them, though that exists, but many dogs end up tragically due to other needs being neglected.

On the other side of the coin--have you ever watched some of those training shows like the Dog Whisperer where the dog was treated like a little prince--got their way constantly, got pandered to all day long, had no boundaries, was on all the furniture despite becoming possessive of it, terrorize their owners over bones and food and STILL the owners fawn over the dog like it can do no wrong?? EEEK!!!!!!!!! Those dogs can also get serious behavior problems and be dumped at a shelter after they bite or tear apart another couch. And they end up....gone.

So you see, it's hard to have knowledge of such things, so many beautiful dogs dying, and not worry and try to intervene---albeit strongly sometimes and in way that is very direct---before another dog may have the same fate. 

Dogs give us so much--we entrust our soldiers to them, disabled people, police and we trust them to provide therapeutic companionship to people in hospitals. German shepherds EXCEL at all of these because they are so, so smart and strive to please us. Everyone is here because we love them and want them to reach their amazing potential and provide the boundless pleasure to their families that we know they are capable of.

And Bailey--I think you are going to fall for him and end up reading and learning very, very fast. Your instincts were RIGHT ON when you initially posted that you felt bad that he seemed so unhappy in the basement. GOOD FOR YOU! And you rethought what you had been told and tried it--GOOD FOR YOU!

And you can make mistakes, I doubt anybody has never made mistakes--I've made plenty. I'll make more. Thankfully the little guys are very forgiving and quick to try to teach us how to do things the right way.

Perhaps down the road--you will still be on this list giving sage advice to worried new puppy owners!

Here's to you getting another good night's sleep!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Like I said it takes all kinds to make the world go round.
If your daughter had to cross a road would she know how too? Any way whatever,no matter what, you have your mind made up on how to do this so why ask.Your doing a fine job raising your pack..Keep up the good work.I can't wait to watch your posts in the future.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

JenniferD -

Wow!!!

The idea of having dogbeds around is pretty cool actually, I never thought of that. To teach Bailey to sleep on those designated pads would be awesome! (instead of worrying he will go crush one of the kids at night, lol) I'll be printing out your post! Love it!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

By the way guys, *THANKS!*, not only in this thread, but in private msging!

I'm still working on them -- sorry for the delay.

I was overwhelmed with dozens of positive messages in my inbox this morning with tips, advice, and they mostly all went along the same line! I'm making a big book and printed them out for reference. Like my own little education booklet for home.







We'll continue growing with our little one, but as we grow we'll learn and thrive, and one day have an amazingly behaved and mannered Bailey to help us go through the teenage years with our girls.







Thanks again!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

The dog is not going to crush your kids..I would hope your kids would be able to get out from the dog.I know your kids are young but the pup will grow with them and will not crush them.Also if you do obedience the dog will learn to listen and when you say off he will obey.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks Allie. Yes, we do plan on doing obedience school for him. We actually found a centre about 48-50 minutes away that trains only GSD of private owners or for police training. It's a K-9 training centre, and we'll be bringing him there. I debate with the distance, but it'll be great -- and he'll learn the same as what is taught for police-trained and search dogs.

Puppy Kindergarten starts at 10 weeks-12 weeks, and basic and so on starts at 5+ months of age with all vaccines up to date, so this isn't and won't be an issue for a little while still.


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## headtripparade (May 9, 2009)

Maya-- when I used the word "cruel" I was not insinuating that you are a cruel person. You hadn't actually come out and said that your basement was finished, and you were still adamant that the dog stay down there, so all I saw was this 7 week old puppy stuck downstairs in a dingy basement a good portion of the time all by himself. I do still believe that an act like that is borderline cruel, but with new circumstances coming to light (the basement is finished, not dark and dingy) and the fact that you're now trying to let him stay with his pack as much as possible, it is clear that the cruel act I thought was happening isn't.







I do apologize for anything being misconstrued.

I'm glad you're giving moving the crate a shot-- I'm sure it will turn out best for everyone involved, as it will have a profound effect on your bond and how he behaves later in life. 

My only concern at this point (and I am not trying to offend you, just an honest concern) is your seemingly constant fear and nervousness. Your dog will pick up on these feelings, and in turn it will make him nervous and fearful, which is never a good combo. I do have to ask-- and again, not in a bad way, please don't take offense)-- maybe why you didn't go for a smaller breed? It seems that a lot of your fear is stemming from his future size, which is why I ask. 

I assure you that Bailey will be the best companion your family could have. Don't be so nervous. He loves you, your husband, and your kids.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: headtripparadeMaya-- when I used the word "cruel" I was not insinuating that you are a cruel person. You hadn't actually come out and said that your basement was finished, and you were still adamant that the dog stay down there, so all I saw was this 7 week old puppy stuck downstairs in a dingy basement a good portion of the time all by himself. I do still believe that an act like that is borderline cruel, but with new circumstances coming to light (the basement is finished, not dark and dingy) and the fact that you're now trying to let him stay with his pack as much as possible, it is clear that the cruel act I thought was happening isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I did mention it, but this thread is pretty huge by now. I also mentioned we left him a radio on all night long and also a reading light on, plus tons of toys, a blanket and a dehumidifier, plus a fan. He had it pretty nice, but yes, I wasen't there. I still believe it was separation anxiety -- but for now, we'll see how the next few nights go. It's a very nice basement, with wood floors, painted, furnished and all. Not a cold nasty basement -- no way!!!

And I'm not at all insulted by your post. The reason why we picked GSD is because my husband wanted one all his life. In fact he grew up with one for a very important part of his teenage life when his parents shunned him and he left home at 15. He moved in with an owner of a beautiful GSD named Roxie. She was amazing. However, she passed away 9 years ago. This completely crushed my husband. He felt even more of a need to have this bond again, so it was up to me to get used to the idea of it. It took me 8 years, ever since I met my husband, to finally say, "Let's go for it!" but being a cat expert and not knowing much about dogs (since hubby is the expert, but still needs to learn, as we all learn something new every day) it makes me nervous.

New things make me nervous, but that's how I am. I was much better today!

The first day was a mess though. I brought him out at night and broke down crying while he peed and wondered how I'd raise this beautiful little boy. It's only been 6 days, and I already feel a strong bond with him. I still think I need to GROW into being a dog lover, being a person that was raised around cats only all her life. Nobody in my family ever owned or knew anything about dogs. That's my reality. It's my problem, but even though I have these problems, doesn't mean I can't change and grow to love him to death -- and I will. But it will surely take more than 6 days!! lol My husband wanted a REAL dog. Define real dog. LOL Real dog: big, lovable, strong, dependable, will protect the most important people in your life with his own.


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## GSDinOly (Apr 19, 2009)

Maya, the first three nights Brigitte was home with me, I broke down on the third night. I bawled like a baby. I'm an all animal lover through and through. I'm also a really tough person and it is hard for me to cry! But it hit me that she is dependant on me for every single thing and I am the world to her, and I can't fail her, and flood gates opened. Yes, she had just peed too and it got all over her, and she was jumping about, so it got on me too, so I just started crying!! She peed alot thinking on it now. The reality struck me again how HARD it is all over again. My family has always had dogs in it, but made no difference, puppies are tough. It will take more than 6 days....it's work and stress and worry right now, but it really does get better. My hubby was a bit hesitant when I made my final decision to get Brigitte(new thing). He was nervous, stressed, lost sleep(over new thing)...during the first 2 weeks she was first home I actually wondered if he even LIKED her. Terrified me! Wow, you should see these two now. It took him time to adjust, and now it just blows me away how they play around, the house is suddenly quiet and I go to find them and they're out in the garage or picking blackberries, or washing the car, so you might very well end up being the puppies best friend too. It just..happens!


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Toenail covers!! You are right, a pup will take the socks right off and thank you for making a toy so convenient for him. I got little rubberized toenail covers for Aik to protect my floors, I can't recall the catalougue--maybe foster and smiths. They last a few weeks. 

Aik came to me older and did not like his feet being touched. You'd think I was killing him. He wiggles the entire time and at 100 pounds, I sometimes can't get the covers on--they have a dab of glue in them to make them stick.

I have given up and my floors are now "rustic." but it may be something you have the patience to try.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

I just screwed up for the first time.

I clipped a few of his claws, and then he yelped, and we realized that I clipped one of them a tiny bit too far! I just broke down! Right then and there! He seemed like he forgot it within 5 minutes though. I just hope it won't get infected. His lip infection got me a bit paranoid. Anyway he's completely knocked out again and it's only 8 so we put him in the crate and he didn't even flinch.


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Heck--done that too. They have such dark claws, it's hard to tell where they end. And they can bleed a lot! Consider the toe caps if it's the floors you are worried about. At this point though, if his are like my pup's they are too tiny to be a risk to the floor. My big guy is another story-100 pounds and elderly, so he "Digs" in with his front claws to help himself up at times. I cringe.

I have not clipped my pups toenails yet, I'm worried about going too short, and they are so tiny. I think I'll hold her and make "snipping" sounds with the clippers near her toes to help her get used to it, but not clip for another week or two. 

I have cut Lucy and Aik's claws too short on occasion. I tend too err on the side of caution now. Aik so hates his feet being touched that he nibbles his own toenails now--gives himself a "pawdicure" and actually keeps them rather trim so I don't have to clip them. Smart boy!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Yeah! ell we let Bailey sniff and get to know the clippers before we used them. He's going through a stage of wanting to explore ALL the time and doesn't like being held, of course! Puppy. lol He flinched after I cut 3 of them, and the fourth went a bti too short. It did a spot of blood, but barely anything, so I can imagine I didn't do too far. I still cringe when I rethink of how he yelped. Makes me feel real bad. I'm sure I'll have more experiences like this. lol


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

And Maya--I have dogbed that match my furnture! I can't let the ENTIRE house go to the dogs!!! They like the bolster beds--they have a pillow-like roll around them to snuggle in to. I have found them in sage to match some of the colors of my living room. Fosters and Smith--can look online--has beautiful dogbeds. Sculputured velour, chaise lounge beds, etc. Can be pricey, so sometimes I find similar ones on Ebay--new. There are even corner bolster beds that tuck in to the corner of the room to be less instrusive. Aik sleeps on a bed right next to mine.

And he does get up on the bed at times---he is not a dominant boy, very, very polite and it has not been a problem with him. He tippytoes around me--never steps on me. I don't even feel him get off and on, he's very careful. That's him though--other dogs I had liked to be comedians and make a racket on the bed and hog all the room. 

It's not everyone's cup of tea.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: MayaNow regarding the rule of our second floor, I'm thinking of when he'll be HUGE. We have tons of electronics upstairs which are very expensive and can't be locked out. That's why we want him restricted to downstairs.


We do too! We have a very nice plasma TV and stereo system, and my husband is a General Contractor, and runs his business out of our home office. We also have a garage full of power tools, and although we do confine them to a chain link enclosure in the garage when we're gone for the day or out in the evening, we often just let them out into the garage (there's a dog door in their pen with access to an outdoor run) when we're here, sometimes for quite a while. But we've taught them what's theirs and what isn't, and to leave our stuff alone - it is possible! They have never destroyed any of his tools. 



> Quote:Mind you I am saying this since it's our 1st experience with a dog, and I might grow to love him so much we'll let him sleep in our bed (god forbid that, I WILL NOT allow it, imagine the problems down the line...) but you get my point. I might end up just letting him have free roam of the house. I don't want my $10,000 floors destroyed within a year though. LOL I'm being honest. I tried making him wear baby socks and he takes them off (obviously, fun to play with). I'm thinking that if we keep clipping his claws, that they'll be minimal damage... or so I hope?


We don't let our dogs sleep in bed with us either, but I do allow them to jump up there at other times. We also don't allow them on our furniture, but many people do, and may people also let them sleep in their bed. It's really only a problem if your dog has dominance and rank issues, and as long as they get off when I tell them to I'm not concerned about that. But there's definitely the hair issue, and like I said before, it's your house so you get to make those decisions. If you don't want to sleep on a pillow covered with dog hair, that's perfectly reasonable.



> Quote:Since I haven't seen the effects of training on a dog, this makes me very skeptical of the effects of certain rules like no chewing the electric cords, no jumping in the bathtub while the kids are bathings, etc. KWIM?


All I can say to this is: Prepare to be amazed! I'm a cat person, we had a couple of ill, trained badly behaved dogs as I grew up, but we ALWAYS had cats. My sister currently has 6 cats! And I have two cats in addition to the two dogs. My hubby is a dog guy and grew up with shepherds. When we got married in 1986 and bought our first house we got a GSD and I was hooked! There is no other breed for me, and I can't imagine ever not having one again. They are not always easy when young, they get big fast and can be an energetic and powerful breed, but they are also ridiculously smart and highly trainable. They form an INCREDIBLE emotional bond with their family, which is why people were so adamant about not leaving him in the basement at night. We tend to be passionate about our breed and how we think they should be raised. I think that if you keep an open mind and consider the suggestions you get here on the board you will find that you've got yourself the best dog ever, a perfect family companion. But do prepare yourself to work at it because it won't happen if you don't put the time and effort in, particularly while he's young.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Oh, forgot to mention that yes, keeping his nails short and blunt will definitely help your floors. (I have nice hardwood floors too.) Many of us use a Dremel tool to grind them down rather than clippers because you can take small amounts off at a time, allowing the quick to recede into the nail. If you do it every week or two they should remain nice and short. There are lots of threads about using a Dremel, you should be able to find one if you search.


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## Jeepnick (Jul 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: MayaI just screwed up for the first time.
> 
> I clipped a few of his claws, and then he yelped, and we realized that I clipped one of them a tiny bit too far! I just broke down! Right then and there! He seemed like he forgot it within 5 minutes though. I just hope it won't get infected. His lip infection got me a bit paranoid. Anyway he's completely knocked out again and it's only 8 so we put him in the crate and he didn't even flinch.


Young pups have very dark nails, making it hard to see where the quick ends. Until she outgrows them, you can use human nail clippers just to take the tips off the nail. Its not much, but it helps.

Any pet store should sell stipic powder in a little jar. If you do hit the quick and it bleeds, you can dab a little on the end of the nail to stop the blood. It will burn (think lemon juice on a papercut), but it will stop the bleeding. The pup will get over it quickly and you can move on.

Hitting the quick sucks, but its just something that will happen from time to time. Get him used to having his nails clipped now (I give a treat per nail) and you will reap the rewards later.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Maya, how's the sleeping going? Still going well?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Maya I might grow to love him so much we'll let him sleep in our bed (god forbid that, I WILL NOT allow it, imagine the problems down the line...)


Ummm - what problems? All our dogs are allowed to sleep in the bed with us and we have no problems. In fact, we used to let our FOUR GSDs sleep with us. That got a bit crowded even with a king sized bed.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

The only problem I have with it is when Otto lays right down the middle of the bed with his butt towards me and lets one rip







Eww, DOG! GET OFF MY BED - NOW!


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Anna sleeps on our bed...she usually is in DH's spot the night he works, the nights he's off, he scoots her out of the way and she passes out. I love having her on the bed! We have a duvet cover so I can take it off and wash it.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: aubieMaya, how's the sleeping going? Still going well?


Hey Aubie,

Thanks for checking up on us. The last nights were okay until last night in fact. Bailey woke at 2 a.m. and hubby brought him out to pee. He put him back, Bailey whined a bit, and then went back to sleep. However, Bailey woke up again around 4:00 a.m. and was whining again, and started barking even (which we haven't really heard to date). Hubby brought him out again to pee, brought him back in, and Bailey continued. In fact he continued this until almost 5:00 a.m. I gave him some water during this time which he drank a LOT, but he still whined. At 5, hubby brought him to drink and eat, brought him out to pee, and put him back to 'bed'. Bailey went in his bed, whined for 5 seconds, and stopped. I just gave in and got up. I took a shower, came out and he was just staring at me; no whine, no cry. I took him downstairs and let my husband have a good 40 minutes of sleep before I woke everyone up. My daughters said they never heard him (thank god, I guess they ARE deep sleepers... let's hope it will last)

Hubby was pretty much [censored] last night and tried to convince me to move the crate back in the basement since he figures if he's going to cry, might as well do it somewhere where we wouldn't heard him much and get our sleep. As tempting as it sounded, and yes, we're sleep deprived today (lol), I told him that moving the crate in the basement wouldn't be positive for HIM even though for US, and that we did in facat want a good dog so we need to try and endure the few days where our nights might not be as pleasant. He still loves him to death though!

Mind you he was not the type to wake up when our daughters were babies; I'm the one that got up 3-4 times a night and went through ****, so now that he got a taste of what I went through, he doesn't like it much, but he's still willing to push ahead and continue keeping him in our bedroom.

He was very sleep deprived last night, if I remember right he even made the half sound asleep comment that we should buy him one of those muzzles (to prevent dogs from biting). I figured he said it out of frustration, because there's no way we'd do anything of a sort to Bailey.

It's tough. I don't know.

Pray we can live through this 'phase' and hope it will end soon and he'll get used to his crate. He loves it I'm sure since each time I change things around in it or wash some blankets, he's running in trying to get comfortable. I'm just frustrated with the fact that we don't know WHY he's crying. He can't want to go pee every single time. Hubby got up last night too when he whined at one time and I told him him doing that would screw things up.

He didn't do it again; the next time, he waited. Give me hope, guys. lol


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Also, Bailey's being treated for ringworms right now. I saw the most disgusting thing in his bowels yesterday, which prompted some research and a visit to the vet. I was right. It was pretty big too! Hopefully a treatment will rid Bailey of this parasite. They gave him Sentinel. I can imagine I'd need to bring him in a month for his 2nd shots AND another dose of Sentinel?


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Sorry this has been such a long thread. 

What is Bailey's feeding Schedule?

and

What is the excercise schedule?

and

How much relax down time/sleep time is Bailey getting during the day?

Val


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Just wondering why you're curious first?


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Well if we know the schedule we might be able to give you some suggestion for fine tuning it so Bailey is sleeping more at night.

If you don't want to share that's fine.

Val


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Rather than a muzzle to stop him from crying, why not try ear plugs to help your hubby sleep? I use them all the time (hubby snores!), and they came in quite handy when puppy fussed at bedtime too.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

LOL he was joking about the muzzle. There's no way in heck I would let that happen. The ear plugs are amazing though, but he needs to hear him to bring him potty.

In fact last night went amazingly well. I think we're on the right path and we're bound to hit a few bumps in the road. Yes, he has accidents once a while but it's all due to my own fault for not running him out as soon as I should be.

Last night we took a 1-hour walk with him and let Bailey play with the neighbours' young dog (a Collie? not sure the name!) and she was very nice. She sniffed him and they started running after each other and pawing each other and just having lots of fun! It was so nice to see! (and we made sure she was updated on her shots, which she was) After that we played indoors after we put the kids to bed and put him down to bed around, he whined a bit, but he didn't wake us up until 5:15 a.m. and his crate (pads) were dry!

He's been having lots of BM's lately, and has been expelling lots of ringworms too (the previous owner never treated him, really irresponsible IMO) so we're hoping he's not full of them. They're about 2 inches long to 4 inches long. Ew. Anyways, he doesn't show any lack of appetite or energy, that's for sure!

We're told it's good to mix in a raw egg in his kibble for lunch so I did this yesterday and man I've never seen him eat his meal SO quickly! And he took the plate in his mouth afterwards and started running away with it. LOL! I'll look up more info on the raw egg and all. He's on Eukanuba right now for pups.As soon as the huge bag is done, we'll switch him over to adult better quality food.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Sounds like things are improving. If you can find ways like the walk, playing with another dog and playing at home late in the day - early evening I will bet the sleeping in the crate becomes much easier. Tired puppies are good puppies.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Hey Maya! Glad to hear things are going relatively well! Puppies are like babies...I think everyone gets sleep deprived when they go through the puppy stage. I remember I was like a zombie! But it will get better!









When you get down to about half a bag of the Eukanuba, I'd go ahead and get the other kibble, then you start gradually replacing the Euk with the new kibble. This helps their tummies adjust to the new food.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks. If only I knew that when we got Bailey.

The previous owners fed Puppy Chow. Can it get worse? We just started giving him Eukanuba right away, no transition. Good thing he didn't have any digestive problems. I'm still looking into what type of food we should get him on. I'm looking into Nutro or Royal Canin, but in those brands, there's so many different types of foods -- it's crazy. Thanks for all the help guys!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Ear plugs won't completely block out sound - when I had the puppy crate right next to the bed I could still hear if Halo woke up and had to go out, and I also can hear my alarm in the morning. It just kind of muffles sounds enough that they don't bother me so much.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaThe only problem I have with it is when Otto lays right down the middle of the bed with his butt towards me and lets one rip
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hear ya.. Dog farts are the worst.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote:The previous owners fed Puppy Chow. Can it get worse?


Actually yes! I'd put Purina puppy chow well above Alpo, Old Roy, and a host of others. I think Purina, Iams, Eukanuba, Nutro, and Royal Canin are all in a similar category - what I'd consider mid ranged foods. Better than super low quality but not that great. There are a lot of food threads on this board and if you want to transition to something truly better, I wouldn't be considering any of those. I know their marketing makes it sound like they're really great, but they're not. I've actually had more dogs react badly to Nutro than to Purina or Iams. Luckily that are lots of options that truly _are_ better, although you may have to go to a special store. Our Petsmart doesn't carry any of the premium brands. 

Good luck! Glad you're getting the pupper sorted out. FYI, I think what you're seeing are "round worms"







(ringworm being a fungus on the skin) not that it makes it any less gross! The spagetti poop of previously undewormed puppies is always quite disgusting but better out and than in I guess!


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Yes, I made a typing error -- roundworms. Definitely disgusting!

Glad to say that after 5 days of pooping, Bailey is roundworm-free and as bratty as ever!







We're loving every little minute of it. He's actually starting to bite less hard (unless he's really into it, and then he gives you a really good nip once a while) but I've seen a definite improvement for certain!

About the food, we have tons of Eukanuba left... I'd say another few weeks worth, but if we don't finish by switching to a raw diet (since no butcher around that could sell bulk amounts of meat for us to save), we might switch to Blue Mountain or Orijen after all. PetSmart pretty much carries almost all of those brands up here! Now it's just to figure out what type in that brand.

Bailey's still having accidents at night (once, sometimes twice here and there) but we bring him out as quick as we can. I think that as soon as he starts whining, within 1-2 minutes, it's too late and he peed on the pad. He always poops outside though.

He's in love with his crate, and loves sleeping with us in our room.









So it's alllllllllllllll gooooooood.


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## Chantell (May 29, 2009)

You are lucky, I wish our petsmart sold Orijen- I have to order it online! I am glad to see your family is enjoying the new pup!!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: MayaHe's in love with his crate, and loves sleeping with us in our room.


That's great! Sleeping with the masters is a very important part of the bond. Enjoy him and take lots of pictures, they're only little for a short while.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks!

I've also noticed his ears are half way up already! I was shocked this morning, since they were still pointing down yesterday.

I'll take lots of pictures! I have tons of him with my daughters though. They can't seem to stop wanting to pick him up like a baby!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

He is a baby! Next month they won't be able to pick him up so let them have their fun while they can.


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## Sahria (Apr 21, 2009)

If you are looking to switch to the Orijen LBP and are interested, I have about a weeks worth of meals left that you could try out. No one around me feeds it and Inara won't touch it after going raw. Just let me know and I can mail it since you're pretty close.


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## Bailey's Momma (Jul 9, 2009)

How much? $$


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## Sahria (Apr 21, 2009)

Nothing, just want to see it used


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