# genetic timidity versus fear



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

i am guessing that most people would consider timidity in a dog a sign of poor temprement, poor breeding blah, blah...

i challenge you to consider why timidity in certain breeds/lines is a desired trait to be selected for.

walking a dog down town most folks feel it is a fundamental democratic right to molest every dog they see and expect the dog to like it.

any sign of timidity will catch you the label of clear and obvious dog abuse. 

timidity does not equal fear altho you can have a timid dog that is fearful but it does not logically follow that all timid dogs have nerve problems and are spooks.

i define timidity as that one step further than aloofness and in a practical sense it can be a life saving trait in a dog.

thoughts.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

For me, my opinion, timid is more than one step further than aloofness. It is not a trait I want in a dog.

I honestly don't know any breeds that it is desired in, not saying you are wrong, just not aware of it.

I would ask you, why do you think in a practical sense it can be a life saving trait in a dog? Just curious.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

In my opinion, a timid dog is not a confident dog. I would take aloof any day over timidness. 

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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> For me, my opinion, timid is more than one step further than aloofness. It is not a trait I want in a dog.
> 
> I honestly don't know any breeds that it is desired in, not saying you are wrong, just not aware of it.
> 
> I would ask you, *why do you think in a practical sense it can be a life saving trait in a dog*? Just curious.


 
think back to before there was a gsd, people still used dogs in a variety of roles. in fact a families survival often depended directly on the quality of their dogs, meat dogs did exactly that - put meat on the table. 

cos yr family survival depended on it these dogs were targets of theft or worse. timidity made these dogs rather lose a leg than get taken by a stranger, it is not the same as fear.

every other week dogs are stolen around here, i used to think dog matchers and bait dogs, some are but it was explained to me that it is more likely some of these dogs end up in puppy farms if they look pure-bred or even rival breeders stealing breeding stock or eliminating others breeding stock.

i will defy anyone to get a hand on my pups or their mother if i leave anyone of them at the truck unattended for hours. or around the yard. 

they do not seek contact from strangers, they do not like it and avoid it at all costs. it is an inherited trait and i think it is a trait worth preserving. like all traits it has to have a context where it is of value.

not sure if i explained it well.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

x11 said:


> think back to before there was a gsd, people still used dogs in a variety of roles. in fact a families survival often depended directly on the quality of their dogs, meat dogs did exactly that - put meat on the table.
> 
> cos yr family survival depended on it these dogs were targets of theft or worse. timidity made these dogs rather lose a leg than get taken by a stranger, it is not the same as fear.
> 
> ...


I find it far more likely that my dog requires to be around strangers for its safety(such as being taken care of when I'm gone by a family friend, or being treated by the vet, or being found after it has escaped) than for it to be stolen and require timidness. Dog-knapping isn't as common as all of those other reasons, and if you are truly concerned there are ways to prevent it.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

depends where and how you live - thats why different traits are a value or a hindrance to different people/lifestyles. 

the typical modern dog imo is all the same dog with different colors and shapes according to personal preference eg the typical pet quality lab temperment that wears different coats and comes in different sizes. 

would like a dollar for every BC i seen get the be-jesus corrected out of it for displaying herding instinct, and then again some will buy the BC because of it's herding instinct - go figure.

some desire sumthin else than the pet lab mentality.

the appeal to "common" as you pointed out is kinda silly, like saying aids or cancer isn't that common but if you got it, it's yr whole world in collapse.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

To me, "timid" implies reluctance. I have no problems with dogs who have a healthy dose of self-preservation and showing aptitude for figuring things out (ie, won't chase a ball right off a cliff, won't jump off a ledge that is too high if they can find a way to otherwise climb down) but I don't think being timid is the same thing, nor do I find it desirable in any way. I want to see that the dog is willing to go forward and investigate new things without coaxing.

BCs....I know a lot of them (because I do flyball) but they are not GSDs, totally different breed, I don't know what their standard is for temperament.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Liesje, i am not referring to GSD's in this thread.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

x11 said:


> depends where and how you live - thats why different traits are a value or a hindrance to different people/lifestyles.
> 
> the typical modern dog imo is all the same dog with different colors and shapes according to personal preference eg the typical pet quality lab temperment that wears different coats and comes in different sizes.
> 
> ...


But just like those diseases, there are ways to prevent it, like having containment that is as theft-proof as possible. I think aggression would be more useful for anti-theft anyway, since you can eventually capture a timid dog, and I'd sooner rely on some high tech containment setup than hope my dog is timid enough to get away.


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