# Does she still look mixed? (Update)



## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

Almost 8 months old and weighing in at 45 pounds. Is the GSD finally beginning to reveal itself?


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

No picture


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

*Upload problems. Here she is*

Here she is now. I was having upload problems.


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

*Another picture*

One more picture for the collection


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

*Another picture*

Another picture. Sorry having serious upload troubles


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

My first reaction to her head was pit. Dont remember if I looked at your other thread. Upright ears are not on a lot of breeds with the color points.She is cute.


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

dawnandjr said:


> My first reaction to her head was pit. Dont remember if I looked at your other thread. Upright ears are not on a lot of breeds with the color points.She is cute.


Not sure what you mean about the color points?


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Like a dob or rottie have color points. Just read your other thread. Yeah mom was obviously not purebred and therefore not shown to you on purpose. Was just an excuse. Upright ears means that the male dog they said was the sire, probably was. So she is at least half german shepherd. How is she doing socially? You doing training classes? Getting her out and about?


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

dawnandjr said:


> Like a dob or rottie have color points. Just read your other thread. Yeah mom was obviously not purebred and therefore not shown to you on purpose. Was just an excuse. Upright ears means that the male dog they said was the sire, probably was. So she is at least half german shepherd. How is she doing socially? You doing training classes? Getting her out and about?


She is friendly and social with both dogs and people. Sometimes too friendly in my opinion. She took training classes, we also had a couple personal training classes by the los angeles westside german shepherd rescue main trainer Eron Shine. She is doing grrrreat! Very smart. What I really want out of her the the intense working drive. Yes the looks matter but its the loyalty, companionship, and protectiveness that you get from the GSD which really matters.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Maybe Dobie/Shepherd? Pretty girl!


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> What I really want out of her the the intense working drive. Yes the looks matter but its the loyalty, companionship, and protectiveness that you get from the GSD which really matters.


This is a crap shoot at this point. Traits like you want in a German Shepherd are genetic and we breed for them. Maybe she will, maybe she wont. My dogs are very friendly and social. But will let you know this is their house in no uncertain terms if you show up.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

dogma13 said:


> Maybe Dobie/Shepherd? Pretty girl!


That's what I'm seeing too!


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

*I have heard them all..*

Pit, Dobie, Rottie, Kelpie even Beucerin. I just like to hear opinions. Doesnt matter what she is genetically, she is absolutely amazing and beautiful to me. I appreciate every opinion.


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

dawnandjr said:


> This is a crap shoot at this point. Traits like you want in a German Shepherd are genetic and we breed for them. Maybe she will, maybe she wont. My dogs are very friendly and social. But will let you know this is their house in no uncertain terms if you show up.


Was a crap shoot..... she is what she is now and i am impressed. _ **** Removed by ADMIN **** _ She is high drive and never gets tired. Our house is a sacred Temple to her nobody gets in without first being investigated.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

my bad. yes, she still looks mixed.


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

Fodder said:


> my bad. yes, she still looks mixed.


I think so too. Probably Kelpie because of her size.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I think it was more about you hoping to have all the behavioral characteristics GSDs are bred and valued for and expecting them from a dog whose genetic pool has been diluted with an unknown source vs your dog's appearance.

Have you read the German breed standard? There is much written there about the inherent behavioral traits of German Shepherds. You might enjoy it.

With her heavier head, I would have to go with Pit mix, maybe a little Rott for color. Pit mix would also explain her very friendly behavior with strangers.


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I think it was more about you hoping to have all the behavioral characteristics GSDs are bred and valued for and expecting them from a dog whose genetic pool has been diluted with an unknown source vs your dog's appearance.
> 
> Have you read the German breed standard? There is much written there about the inherent behavioral traits of German Shepherds. You might enjoy it.


In my opinion. The gene pool is more intricate than most might think, but many breeds share the same behavioral characteristics. Not every GSD is the same. Not even from the same litter. Thats why reputable breeders don't just hand over puppies to anybody. Yes i did the backyard thing and it will be my last but that doesnt mean my pup mixed or not mixed will be the oposite of what i expect.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> In my opinion. The gene pool is more intricate than most might think, but many breeds share the same behavioral characteristics. Not every GSD is the same. Not even from the same litter. Thats why reputable breeders don't just hand over puppies to anybody. Yes i did the backyard thing and it will be my last but that doesnt mean my pup mixed or not mixed will be the oposite of what i expect.


You got that out of my post?


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> You got that out of my post?


Yes!! There wasnt much to it. ?. You need to go back to the beginning and read how the dog was adopted from someones backyard.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> Yes!! There wasnt much to it. ?. You need to go back to the beginning and read how the dog was adopted from someones backyard.


Somebody made a comment on here regarding a GSD's temperament that you thought was about your dog's appearance, and I commented on that point.

Then I specifically answered _your question_ regarding what breed(s) I think your dog is mixed with and why.

Not sure why you are having such a problem with my comment.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I think she is half GSD and half Doberman, and very cute. I say that based on her shape and coloring. My friend has a lot of Dobies and I've spent time looking at their faces and body types. When you have a mix you aren't going to get a dog that follows either breed, but a blending of traits, which is what people are trying to explain. But if you love your dog, does it matter if her behavior is or isn't GSD?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

People are saying that her temperament, personality and behavior traits will be influenced by her breed. The attitude of a rottie is different than a GSD. A dobe is different than both. And a pit is yet again different. Depending on her genetic makeup can have quite a varied impact on her adult personality and view of the world. 
That is what we are all trying to explain.

The differences between GSDs in a litter are often minor. A dog with the drive to make an excellent working dog vs an active pet can be very slight. The difference between a winning show dog and a family pet are often cosmetic. Etc Etc. Yes, breeders will match the dog to the family and some pups will fall more to one side or the other but still minor compared to some of the differences between the breeds that may be in your girl's pedigree.


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

Very good looking pup. She does look mixed to me. But it is definitely a mix that went very well! Enjoy your girl.


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

Dainerra said:


> People are saying that her temperament, personality and behavior traits will be influenced by her breed. The attitude of a rottie is different than a GSD. A dobe is different than both. And a pit is yet again different. Depending on her genetic makeup can have quite a varied impact on her adult personality and view of the world.
> That is what we are all trying to explain.
> 
> The differences between GSDs in a litter are often minor. A dog with the drive to make an excellent working dog vs an active pet can be very slight. The difference between a winning show dog and a family pet are often cosmetic. Etc Etc. Yes, breeders will match the dog to the family and some pups will fall more to one side or the other but still minor compared to some of the differences between the breeds that may be in your girl's pedigree.


What your saying may be true... maybe not... the fact is, this isnt a behavioral question. This question is aimed towards general appearance, nothing more. How did we get off topic?


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

annabirdie said:


> Very good looking pup. She does look mixed to me. But it is definitely a mix that went very well! Enjoy your girl.


Thank you. She is amazing both physically and mentally. Very confident pup.


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## Elf (Jun 10, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> I think she is half GSD and half Doberman, and very cute. I say that based on her shape and coloring. My friend has a lot of Dobies and I've spent time looking at their faces and body types. When you have a mix you aren't going to get a dog that follows either breed, but a blending of traits, which is what people are trying to explain. But if you love your dog, does it matter if her behavior is or isn't GSD?


I agree with this. Definitely looks like a Doberman / GSD 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/98/01/5f/98015f2026febc9dc1e974a405992af1.jpg

Cute pup.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> What your saying may be true... maybe not... the fact is, this isnt a behavioral question. This question is aimed towards general appearance, nothing more. How did we get off topic?


not off topic. you said that you wanted a dog with the loyalty, personality etc of the GSD. People are pointing out why that may not be possible and you said they didn't know what they were talking about.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Only time will tell what you end up with. At 8 months my mixed dog had a different attitude then he does at 14 months. I expect my PB will be the same. Have you been nurturing the behavior you want. Through play and training. Just getting a dog and expecting something just because it has a certain breed in the mix is far less effective than training and nurturing for the desired behavior. In my opinion this starts at 8 weeks of age through play and then as the pup matures through training, and play. Even then some dogs will never get to where you want but they can be progressed as far as their temperament will allow.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Loving that short and smooth fur/hair. Very nice.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Pit mixed with something black and brown. Dobie, gsd, rott.


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

cdwoodcox said:


> Only time will tell what you end up with. At 8 months my mixed dog had a different attitude then he does at 14 months. I expect my PB will be the same. Have you been nurturing the behavior you want. Through play and training. Just getting a dog and expecting something just because it has a certain breed in the mix is far less effective than training and nurturing for the desired behavior. In my opinion this starts at 8 weeks of age through play and then as the pup matures through training, and play. Even then some dogs will never get to where you want but they can be progressed as far as their temperament will allow.


You are abosolutely right! I agree. I wanted a GSD so i could have a dog with certain qualities. Its my job to bring out the best in my pup by nurturing those qualities. If i was to adopt a puppy pit doesnt mean its going to rip other dogs throats out any chance it has. Genetics plus training can get you the dog you want.


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## Casto (Jun 18, 2016)

GSD/GSD-Dobie mix. maybe. sounds like she will be exactly waht you need her to be.


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## Casto (Jun 18, 2016)

Maybe it is a Kelpie...hmmm


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

I was actually considering trying the Wisdom Panel. Not sure if its even accurate. Has anyone with mixed breeds tried it?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> I was actually considering trying the Wisdom Panel. Not sure if its even accurate. Has anyone with mixed breeds tried it?


I did and it all made sense after I got the results. I originally thought mine was a border collie mix. She is samoyed/lab/Old English sheepdog. Body type is samoyed, fur is old English sheepdog(can't stand it) and personality is lab. A day after we got the results a construction worker saw her and said is that a black samoyed?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> I was actually considering trying the Wisdom Panel. Not sure if its even accurate. Has anyone with mixed breeds tried it?


No, but genetic testing is inaccurate. German Shepherd have differences between lines and if their sample is an ASL but the dog tested is WL, the test isn't sensitive enough to know the difference. My neighbor had it done and the result said her dog was Mastiff and Pomeranian. Not likely.


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

llombardo said:


> I did and it all made sense after I got the results. I originally thought mine was a border collie mix. She is samoyed/lab/Old English sheepdog. Body type is samoyed, fur is old English sheepdog(can't stand it) and personality is lab. A day after we got the results a construction worker saw her and said is that a black samoyed?


Any black bear in there? Lol good looking girl. I think i might do the dna test. How long until results are back?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> You are abosolutely right! I agree. I wanted a GSD so i could have a dog with certain qualities. Its my job to bring out the best in my pup by nurturing those qualities. If i was to adopt a puppy pit doesnt mean its going to rip other dogs throats out any chance it has. Genetics plus training can get you the dog you want.


This is what people are trying to explain to you. With a mix you might get those qualities, but you might not. You can't teach a dog to become a German Shepherd, all you can do is reward and shape the behaviors you want. My family owned several GSD mixes when I was a child or young adult. Not one of them prepared me for the purebred GSDs I owned later. They had some similarities, but overall were much easier dogs. You may still get the dog you want but you can't assume the traits are German Shepherd. There are also huge differences between lines.

My friend's niece got a German Shepherd from backyard breeder. She lucked out and found a quality American Line dog with excellent nerve. She trained him in IPO and ended up titling him as a Sch 3. She was in her early 20s and didn't want two dogs, so she began training for other people, all simlar lines with the same results. Six years later she wanted another dog and everyone said, you are such a good trainer, get a WL dog this time. So, she did, and she could not handle the new puppy. There was something "wrong" with her, she was too hyper, she wouldn't settle down, she was On all the time. 

There was nothing wrong with the puppy. The woman had two different lines and had no experience with a working dog temperament or work abilities. She finally titled the female as a Sch 1 but it was very difficult. She made the mistake of assuming all German Shepherds were the same and that she understood the breed. She didn't, she only understood her own dog and similar dogs.

You have a great dog, but I'm trying to explain why people are trying to explain to you that you have a mix, not a shepherd so you can't assume anything about temperament. If you do, you could also be taken by surprise if you get a purebred. We aren't criticizing you in any way but letting you know why we disagree.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

llombardo said:


> I did and it all made sense after I got the results. I originally thought mine was a border collie mix. She is samoyed/lab/Old English sheepdog. Body type is samoyed, fur is old English sheepdog(can't stand it) and personality is lab. A day after we got the results a construction worker saw her and said is that a black samoyed?


So in your experience, it was accurate?


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> This is what people are trying to explain to you. With a mix you might get those qualities, but you might not. You can't teach a dog to become a German Shepherd, all you can do is reward and shape the behaviors you want. My family owned several GSD mixes when I was a child or young adult. Not one of them prepared me for the purebred GSDs I owned later. They had some similarities, but overall were much easier dogs. You may still get the dog you want but you can't assume the traits are German Shepherd. There are also huge differences between lines.
> 
> My friend's niece got a German Shepherd from backyard breeder. She lucked out and found a quality American Line dog with excellent nerve. She trained him in IPO and ended up titling him as a Sch 3. She was in her early 20s and didn't want two dogs, so she began training for other people, all simlar lines with the same results. Six years later she wanted another dog and everyone said, you are such a good trainer, get a WL dog this time. So, she did, and she could not handle the new puppy. There was something "wrong" with her, she was too hyper, she wouldn't settle down, she was On all the time.
> 
> ...


Im not claimimg to have a pure bred, nor am i implying she has GSD personality.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> Im not claimimg to have a pure bred, nor am i implying she has GSD personality.


I know that. I believe you said German Shepherd qualities. Again, it's not a criticism, it's an explanation.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> Any black bear in there? Lol good looking girl. I think i might do the dna test. How long until results are back?


It took about 2 weeks. It's pretty split. Some say it works and some say it doesn't. It is not meant for pure bred dogs and I don't think I've ever seen one come back on pure bred dogs.

She does remind me of a big bear, but I can't stress enough how awful the undercoat is. That is a big reason I did the test, I couldn't figure out where that God awful fur was coming from. The mix of breeds makes a wonderful dog though.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LuvShepherds said:


> So in your experience, it was accurate?


Yes I believe it was right on and I wasn't thinking any of those breeds at all. She has traits from each breed. I can't believe I difng get the body type to be samoyed and the white on her is super white.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I will say also with all the talk about traits that while some traits are genetic, there are some that can be learned. My youngest golden was super close to my GSD as a puppy. He herds like a GSD--might be the only golden that would excel in herding sheep.his play style is completely like a GSD too. When they run and play you see 3 GSDs and 1 golden that thinks he is a GSD. The golden can eat a duck neck in about 30 seconds and the GSDs are still working on it. He has very powerful jaws for a golden. Last but not least, he has a higher then normal ball drive, he is right up there with Midnite, who he probably learned it from. He will move furniture to get a ball.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

llombardo said:


> I will say also with all the talk about traits that while some traits are genetic, there are some that can be learned. My youngest golden was super close to my GSD as a puppy. He herds like a GSD--might be the only golden that would excel in herding sheep.his play style is completely like a GSD too. When they run and play you see 3 GSDs and 1 golden that thinks he is a GSD. The golden can eat a duck neck in about 30 seconds and the GSDs are still working on it. He has very powerful jaws for a golden. Last but not least, he has a higher then normal ball drive, he is right up there with Midnite, who he probably learned it from. He will move furniture to get a ball.


My WGSL has high prey drive and is overall very drivey. I can't help but wonder what is the dog and what rubbed off from living with the WLs. 

My youngest GSD swallows chicken thighs whole and has done so since I got him at 9 weeks of age. I have seen my showline swallow a chicken leg quarter whole. Three of my dogs eat their thighs within seconds, literally, while two take their time and chew. Not sure which, if any, is a GSD trait. I tend to lean to individual preference. 

Goldens are a hunting dog, they are bred to have very high prey drives too, but for different reasons than a GSD.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

llombardo said:


> I will say also with all the talk about traits that while some traits are genetic, there are some that can be learned. My youngest golden was super close to my GSD as a puppy. He herds like a GSD--might be the only golden that would excel in herding sheep.his play style is completely like a GSD too. When they run and play you see 3 GSDs and 1 golden that thinks he is a GSD. The golden can eat a duck neck in about 30 seconds and the GSDs are still working on it. He has very powerful jaws for a golden. Last but not least, he has a higher then normal ball drive, he is right up there with Midnite, who he probably learned it from. He will move furniture to get a ball.


I agree somewhat. My rescued dog lived with cats and copied some cat movements. But it didn't turn her into a cat and her behavior is mainly breed. Did the OP say his dog lives with Germam Shepherds?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I'd guess GSD/dobie as the mix.

Gsds seem good at mimicking others traits/playing styles. I've noticed this with mine each time we added another. Some of the new dogs tactics would get adopted by the others.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

nature vs nurture. nature gives the building blocks of personality. nurture shapes them.

you can't take a dog that is genetically wired dog aggressive and make them a happy dog park dog that plays with everyone. You can often shape that behavior into ignoring the other dogs with a sliding scale that depends on the genetics of the dog and your training ability. But you can't just say "I'll love him and teach him to be sweet and he'll be a perfect angel forever"

for the genetic tests, there is some element of reliability and some level of guesswork. The tests work by looking for common genetic traits of particular breeds. The problem is, most of those traits are also found in other breeds but simply not expressed. And when you have a couple generations of mixing going on, there is an even more muddled soup. 
The test is based on the premise that OF COURSE you wouldn't test a purebred dog (call it breed A) so it assumes that any trace of a trait common in breed X, Y or Z means that those breeds are in the mix. When you have a dog that is the result of 2 purebred parents of different breeds or at most a mix that is only a generation or 2 removed from the purebred ancestors the test can be fairly accurate. The more removed from purebred the more likely that traits that are carried in Breed A but not expressed (but are common in breed X, Y or Z) will be expressed.
In the end, it's a more educated science based guess than the volunteer at the local shelter but still a guess.

Also, I always wonder how many people get a result and say "oh that makes sense" because they honestly didn't think of that breed vs looking for things that they can attribute to the results on the paper. Kind of like a placebo effect.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

In some pictures, she reminds me of a Kelpie or ACD, and in others, especially that close-up head shot, she reminds me of a Doberman. Whatever cross she is or is not, she is stunning.


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

I got a mystery pup, first dog, at 9 weeks old, and was told he was a Aussie-Lab cross. He turned out to be an Aussie-Collie cross. I see a bit of Aussie (agility) and a lot of Collie (personality) but overall he is the dog that we raised by living in our home and being exposed to a specific set of circumstances. He is a wonderful boy. Mixed breeding will give you some tendencies, but overall this will be the dog you make it! And I think it sounds like you are doing great.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

annabirdie said:


> I got a mystery pup, first dog, at 9 weeks old, and was told he was a Aussie-Lab cross. He turned out to be an Aussie-Collie cross. I see a bit of Aussie (agility) and a lot of Collie (personality) but overall he is the dog that we raised by living in our home and being exposed to a specific set of circumstances. He is a wonderful boy. Mixed breeding will give you some tendencies, but overall this will be the dog you make it! And I think it sounds like you are doing great.


This comment confuses me. If " I see a ... lot of Collie (personality)", which would then be genetics, then how can this be "...but overall this will be the dog you make it!"? Or did you raise and train it to act like a Collie? :thinking:


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> This comment confuses me. If " I see a ... lot of Collie (personality)", which would then be genetics, then how can this be "...but overall this will be the dog you make it!"? Or did you raise and train it to act like a Collie?
> 
> 
> I believe annabirdie is referring to the basics of dog handling and training when she said "the dog will be what you make it." Its obvious you cant make a wiener dog a Schutzhund Title Holder. BTW thanks for the positive feedback annabirdie.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> MineAreWorkingline said:
> 
> 
> > This comment confuses me. If " I see a ... lot of Collie (personality)", which would then be genetics, then how can this be "...but overall this will be the dog you make it!"? Or did you raise and train it to act like a Collie?
> ...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

CrazyK9Dad said:


> MineAreWorkingline said:
> 
> 
> > This comment confuses me. If " I see a ... lot of Collie (personality)", which would then be genetics, then how can this be "...but overall this will be the dog you make it!"? Or did you raise and train it to act like a Collie?
> ...


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## CrazyK9Dad (Feb 6, 2016)

Wow! That is awesome! Had no idea


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> This comment confuses me. If " I see a ... lot of Collie (personality)", which would then be genetics, then how can this be "...but overall this will be the dog you make it!"? Or did you raise and train it to act like a Collie? :thinking:


Haha sorry for being confusing....I just mean that our dog had certain predisposed traits, which you can't undo, but that with his mixed background they weren't in the same doses you would get in a pure bred dog. So you can see the traits, just maybe not as strongly as you would in a purebred - a bit more wiggle room is available I think in the upbringing and training.


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