# Puppy itching everywhere



## Eric565 (Jun 5, 2017)

Puppy itching everywhere, has horror scabs and red marks all over stomach. What could this be? A food allergy?


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Could be a number of things and can't be diagnosed over a website. I would bring the puppy to the vet. Don't let the little guy suffer. Good luck...


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

To the vet. Poor little guy. That is pretty severe and could lead to a secondary bacterial infection. Lots of possible allergens out there, fleas, environmental, food. But this needs some attention by a doc.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Yes, get your pup to a vet for diagnosis!

But Please Do NOT allow any more vaccinations until this is cleared up. 

Instructions on vaccinations state that only "healthy" dogs should be vaccinated. And Your pup *is* *not* in a healthy state at the moment.


*From **Tamara Hebbler**, DVM, holistic consulting vet (San Diego):*​ "The most disturbing, relatively routine, veterinary practice is vaccinating ill or compromised animals. I am appalled that this is still happening yet I hear from my clients that it is more the norm than the exception.
Vaccinating a stressed or ill dog violates our Hippocratic Oath: _Above All Do No Harm_. *
*
*
*
*When an animal is going in for surgery or chemo, or has an autoimmune disease or neoplastic condition [a tumor], or even a chronic immune challenge such as allergies or endocrine/metabolic diseases, they are at a high increased risk to an adverse reaction to any vaccine. 
*


I liken such vaccination to playing Russian Roulette with an animal’s immune system — with 5 of the 6 barrels loaded, not just 1.


If negative reactions are severe enough, and immediate, most people will connect the reaction to the shot. *However, if the reaction develops over a few weeks or months, you may not tie it to the shot – and your vet probably won’t either.* 



In standard veterinary practice, we have brief appointments and are very busy, I regret to say, treating many of the dis-ease states that we as a profession, with the help of the pet food industry, have created. It is only through laborious record review that I made the connection.
_*
Be bold and stand up for your pet especially when he or she is not feeling well. Just say NO to vaccinations and start researching."

*_
Read more vet's statements about this topic here: Vaccinating Sick Dogs and Cats: A Recipe for Bad Reactions | Truth4Dogs 



Moms


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## Eric565 (Jun 5, 2017)

So I went to get her checked out, and the vet said she has mites. Did a skin scraping and confirmed. Prescribed her some nexgard and antibiotics to reduce the inflammation. Along with some shampoo to help her skin.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Eric565 said:


> So I went to get her checked out, and the vet said she has mites. Did a skin scraping and confirmed. Prescribed her some nexgard and *antibiotics* to reduce the inflammation. Along with some shampoo to help her skin.



Ahhhh, good old antibiotics.........Did the vet suggest Probiotics with them?

Antibiotics kill off the beneficial bacterial. 

Since over 75% of the immune system lies in the gut (which fights off fungus, virus, infections, parasites, allergies and MANY other things) it is VERY important to keep it healthy.

Probiotics are given 2 hours away from antibiotics. 

Here are 2 High Quality, Human Ingredient products made for dogs which I would suggest adding every day to help your pup:
*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo: http://www.feedsentials.com/ (use the email to order)
*Gut Sense* (ProBiotic): http://dr-dobias-natural-healing-usa...ducts/gutsense


Note Nexgard Side Effects: The most frequently reported *adverse* reactions include *vomiting*, dry/*flaky* skin, *diarrhea*, *lethargy* or lack of *appetite*.


Moms


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what kind of mites?

this does not look like common demodectic mange 

wrong areas --- wrong look 

nexgard? why ? this is for fleas and ticks -- which have noting to do with mange mites
which are a symptom of a depressed immune system 

one of the side effects for nexgard is itching and lethargy 

I am surprised the vet didn't resort to ivermectin , the standard go-to 

so the immune is getting another hit 

mites , demodectic , are ever-present part of the skins own eco-system
and like bacteria are kept in check by a strong immune system 

improve diet , particularly good clean protein , eliminate starchy carbohydrates
provide anti oxidant - vitamin C - real stuff please -- and Vitamin E - again real stuff please

provide organic sulfur in the form of MSM , garlic (safe levels) 

wash dog with totally safe Demodex shampoo --- or Selsun Blue fortified -- or a daily wetting down
with BORAX 

most important though is to improve the dog's health/immune status .


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Carmen, NexGard is proving to be very effective on demodex mites:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4807374/
and
Nexgard® or Bravecto® for Canine Demodicosis - Pet Dermatology Clinic

I'm seeing it prescribed instead of ivermectin more and more by vets who follow the emerging research. This is a good advancement, as the ivermectin dose that was used to treat demodex was extremely high (and thus prone to side effects). The NexGard seems to be very well tolerated by a lot of dogs -- we haven't been seeing adverse reactions to it in rescue, and those dogs tend to be the most vulnerable and prone to bad reactions because of immune problems. It knocks down the mite population, giving the body some time and space to recover.

HOWEVER, our rescue's vet also often does sulfur dips too -- this isn't standard (most vets only do them for ringworm). Experience with lots of very severe demodex cases has shown they heal far faster if they get sulfur baths -- which I think meshes with your own experience regarding MSM delivering the sulfur internally.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

thank you for that information Magwart 

and " Experience with lots of very severe demodex cases has shown they heal far faster if they get sulfur baths -- which I think meshes with your own experience regarding MSM delivering the sulfur internally."

Sulfur seems to be very important and very time honored - the go to solution back to the early 1900's


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

carmspack said:


> Sulfur seems to be very important and very time honored - the go to solution back to the early 1900's


I thought it was an oddball thing our vet figured out because she treats so many rescue dogs with severe skin problems until I read one of your messages on MSM and had an "aha!" moment. :nerd:


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## Eric565 (Jun 5, 2017)

This was everything she was given at the vet


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## Eric565 (Jun 5, 2017)

She was also given an ivermectin vaccine


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

WOW.....all that PLUS a 4 virus cocktail vaccination (DA2PP = distemper, adenovirus-2, parainfluenza and parvovirus)! :surprise:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

uyouyeah -- wow is right -- this is going to be a long-term project .

there is no way . NO way that this pup should have been vaccinated .

Were these things done with your understanding and consent.

The vaccine label states that the dog must be healthy to recieve the shot .

demodex is a symptom showing that the dog is sub-par - immune stressed .

so you will have problems -- expect digestive problems -- 

do not go back and get antibiotics --- vicious circle , patient for life .


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## Eric565 (Jun 5, 2017)

Carmspack, what did you mean by that last statement , about antibiotics


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

So much for the vet knowing the latest research. The journal article I linked showed ivermectin is unnecessary for demodex when NexGard is used, and works _better_ than the very high dose of ivermectin (hundreds of times higher than the HW prevention dose). The vet must have thought NexGard was just for fleas. *sigh*

Carm, Cefpo is an antibiotic. Already on it -- probably for a secondary bacterial infection on the skin.

Putting a demodex dog on pred though...that I really don't understand. It suppresses immune function--literally the opposite of what we want to do when we have a demodex dog (or even when we vaccinate, since the point of the vaccine is to mount an immune response). Call the vet and ask why on that one. You can't just stop it, once you start either -- it has to be stepped down under vet supervision to protect the adrenal glands. You beat back demodex forever once the immune system revs up...it cycles over and over as long as the immune system is weak.

Also, Droncit (praziquantel) is for tape worms. If your pup had them, they came from FLEAS. That makes me wonder how much of this is just flea allergic dermatitis.

Did the vet not go over the "why" behind any of this?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

it is a predictable sequence -- iatrogenic --- doctor created --- 

your dog will struggle because the core of his already compromised immune system has been battered by the laundry list of "treatments" --- non of which provide any true immune support .

you go back to the clinic with another issue - probably diarrhea , and you will be prescribed another round of antibiotics - and deeper down you go -- chronic state of health problems

when did this mange problem first show itself ? 

what are you feeding the dog .


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

By the way on the Cefpo, you can't stop it once you start the course without risking creating antibiotic resistant bacteria in the body. You have to run the course. I would have a very serious talk with the vet about the justification for continuing the prednisone and why the vet believes it's necessary, when you're fighting a parasite that thrives on a weak immune system.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

magwart -- "Carm, Cefpo is an antibiotic. Already on it -- probably for a secondary bacterial infection on the skin."

yes . But with the treatment the dog has been given I can only see a down hill slide to a worse state.

then the well-meaning worried owner goes back to the vet , who then prescribes another antibioitc , or another course of the same - 

more disturbance of the gut flora . an even less able immune system .

how scary is this
"Putting a demodex dog on pred though...that I really don't understand. It suppresses immune function--literally the opposite of what we want to do when we have a demodex dog (or even when we vaccinate, since the point of the vaccine is to mount an immune response)."

Prednisone masks the symptoms . Prolonged courses of prednisone can create heart problems , floppy muscles - electrolyte disturbance . 

I did question the demodex diagnosis . There might have been some mites on the scraping -- but mites are ever-present to any dog or human - kept in check by a healthy immune system - they have their function when all is in balance .

I didn't respond to this thread because of the location of the skin problem. 

Again -- this is not typical for mange mites , and thanks to dogs being dropped off and contributing to recovery of animals in shelters , and transporting mangy fox and coyote pups to Toronto's Wildlife Rescue shelter -- it , to my eye does not look like mange and looks much more like Magwart's good suggestion that it is probably FLEA bite.

the INSIDE of the ears and the underbelly where the dog can kick-scratch are the areas that are scabbed.

a typical mange dog would start with hair on the face , around eyes and mouth and BACK of ears start looking like buckshot -- here and there random , where hair is short . == and then it spreads if left to its own 

Demodex is for mange , flea and tick .


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

carmspack said:


> uyouyeah -- wow is right -- this is going to be a long-term project .
> 
> *there is no way . NO way that this pup should have been vaccinated
> 
> ...





carmspack said:


> it is a predictable sequence -- iatrogenic --- doctor created ---
> 
> *your dog will struggle because the core of his already compromised immune system has been battered by the laundry list of "treatments" --- non of which provide any true immune support .*
> 
> you go back to the clinic with another issue - probably diarrhea , and you will be prescribed another round of antibiotics - and *deeper down you go -- chronic state of health problems*


*Totally agree with the above posts/comments!

This vet may have caused this pup years of problems!

I'd be looking for another vet! 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* *Vaccinating a stressed or ill dog violates our Hippocratic Oath: Above All Do No Harm. *(Dr. Hebbler)*

*From Post #4: Dr. Tamera Hebbler: 
*"When an animal is going in for surgery or chemo, or has an autoimmune disease or neoplastic condition [a tumor], or even a chronic immune challenge such as allergies or endocrine/metabolic diseases, they are at a high increased risk to an adverse reaction to any vaccine. 
*
I liken such vaccination to *playing Russian Roulette with an animal’s immune system *— with 5 of the 6 barrels loaded, not just 1.

If negative reactions are severe enough, and immediate, most people will connect the reaction to the shot. *However,  if the reaction develops over a few weeks or months, you may not tie it to the shot – and your vet probably won’t either."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*


carmspack said:


> magwart -- "Carm, Cefpo is an antibiotic. Already on it -- probably for a secondary bacterial infection on the skin."
> 
> yes . But with the treatment the dog has been given *I can only see a down hill slide to a worse state.*
> 
> ...


^^^Yes^^^


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## Eric565 (Jun 5, 2017)

But guys she's getting so much better! All her scabs are almost gone she is not itching anymore. Her fur is growing back! All her redness is almost gone too she looks so much better than a week ago


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you're not showing the same areas to compare

glad that the dog has relief -- how much real good was done , other issues that you may encounter
are yet to be seen in the passing of time


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Eric565 said:


> But guys she's getting so much better! All her scabs are almost gone she is not itching anymore. Her fur is growing back! All her redness is almost gone too she looks so much better than a week ago



That's Great!
Now wait and see what happens when you take her off the pred.
Kaboom!


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## Eric565 (Jun 5, 2017)

Here's her stomach area, most of the scabs are non-existent now


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