# Correcting Rude Behavior



## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

Since we got Mox last year, she seems to have a problem respecting our 2 year old daughter, and now our 9 month old son. She isn't aggressive or anything, she is just rude to them. She pushes past our daughter in the hallway, often knocking her down or into the wall. She knocks her down quite often. She just doesn't care that our fdaughter is in the way when she (Mox) is trying to get somewhere. Instead of waiting, walking behind her, or giving our daughter a wide berth, she just bumps into her and keeps going. For our son, he's now crawling, and she steps over him to get somewhere....or jumps over him.

I really am not sure what to do. I tried telling her "No" firmly. I tried leashing her around our kids. Just not sure what to do. She doesn't do it to me, and she's fairly protective and vigilant when it comes to our kids. I just want her to respect our children because she is a lot bigger than them and could inadvertently hurt them.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Is she aware of her body size? My female never 'got' that she grew. She knocked over everything in her path!  Little kids and big dogs seem to always have that issue. I don't have a clue how to train this out, but I feel your pain. My first couple males knocked my youngest son down often. They turned back to check him out if he cried... but otherwise they were oblivious.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I sometimes think that this is why lots of bigger dogs end up in shelters I don't know if there is a way to train this out of them. My oldest dog used to steal my nieces bottle, boy did she cry when the dog took it and ran. She ran to the other side of the room, holding the bottle and watching the baby cry.I think she was trying to get the baby to play. I found it funny...I know I'm a bad auntie, but boy does my niece laugh when I tell her the story now that she is older. When we were younger I can remember one of our first dogs knocking my sister down in the play pen..everytime she stood up the dog would nose her in her belly and she would land on her butt crying. My sister kept trying to stand up, eventually my sister would fall down on her own and laugh when she seen the dog coming(it became a game for both of them). That dog turned into her dog 100% as she got older.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Your dog needs to respect your childrens space. This is disrespectful pack behavior, a bitch that was any kind of mother would not allow another dog to routinely trample her pups. Think of your children as your pups, if the dog starts nosing them to intrusively a strong verbal correction, and walk over to the child maintaining strong eye contact with the dog. Literally stand over the child and loom over the dog maintaining eye contact. Keep moving forward until the dog backs off. Remain standing over the child until the dog completely backs off and turns to do something else or sits lies down. Repeating this on a regular basis will teach your dog to respect the children because they belong to you, they are your most covetted possessions. In otherwards resource guard your kids. If she is going by the kids and a collision is about to ensue do the same thing.


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## Olivers mama (Oct 13, 2010)

Blitz - EXCELLENT advice!! I've never seen that advice before, but it makes prefect sense!

On a similar note, how do you stop that rude behavior when it's toward adults?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Your dog needs to respect your childrens space. This is disrespectful pack behavior, a bitch that was any kind of mother would not allow another dog to routinely trample her pups. Think of your children as your pups, if the dog starts nosing them to intrusively a strong verbal correction, and walk over to the child maintaining strong eye contact with the dog. Literally stand over the child and loom over the dog maintaining eye contact. Keep moving forward until the dog backs off. Remain standing over the child until the dog completely backs off and turns to do something else or sits lies down. Repeating this on a regular basis will teach your dog to respect the children because they belong to you, they are your most covetted possessions. In otherwards resource guard your kids. If she is going by the kids and a collision is about to ensue do the same thing.


The dog isn't nosing them, the dog is running past them and jumping over them. That would require a pretty quick reaction. Quicker then most people would normally have, especially with two young kids. I can see putting the dog on a leash and teaching them how to walk past the kids or around them..but even this would have to be VERY consistent for the dog to get it. My dog is not around kids alot, but she is quite calm around them when she is...no training, that is just how she is.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Ashley - do you like training? Is it fun for you and your dog? If so, looking at shaping behaviors and building body awareness so your dog understands it could completely change things. I am not going to yammer on about all the possibilities if you aren't interested and would rather go another route!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Olivers mama said:


> Blitz - EXCELLENT advice!! I've never seen that advice before, but it makes prefect sense!
> 
> On a similar note, how do you stop that rude behavior when it's toward adults?


If it is towards you; training, NILIF treatment. If towards others: mange it by teaching your dog, to sit and wait, keep him on leash in the presence of others or distract him with play.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i taught my children to move out of the dogs way. my
children loved it when my dog jumped over them. sometimes
they would lay down side by side so the dog could jump over them.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

oh doggiedad, for once i agree with you COMPLETELY. lolol...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i'm so touched having you completely agreeing with me.
thank you.



katieliz said:


> oh doggiedad, for once i agree with you COMPLETELY. lolol...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i taught my children to move out of the dogs way. my
> children loved it when my dog jumped over them. sometimes
> they would lay down side by side so the dog could jump over them.


Back in the day thats what we did We had a GSD/St Bernard that loved the snow, so if we went through the yard he would try to tackle us. He eventually grew out of it, but we learned to stay away from him when he was in the yard.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

llombardo said:


> The dog isn't nosing them, the dog is running past them and jumping over them. That would require a pretty quick reaction. Quicker then most people would normally have, especially with two young kids. I can see putting the dog on a leash and teaching them how to walk past the kids or around them..but even this would have to be VERY consistent for the dog to get it. My dog is not around kids alot, but she is quite calm around them when she is...no training, that is just how she is.


Exactly. It's worse when she's playing with the little dog. She gets all tiled up and doesn't even notice them. I give a sharp, "Hey!" Abe make her lay down. I will do whatever training is necessary to protect my kids.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

First off i would never leave the kids un attended with a dog that does not respect their space, some wouldnt leave them unattended period. So chances are when the dog is moving towards the kids you can see it. I would use a loud verbal command such as easy which to my dog means slow down / look at me. If the dog continues forging forward thats when I use a NO followed by getting up and addressing the behavior using eye contact and body language as stated previously. If the kid get knocked down and you are a second late thats when you verbally correct and follow through with eye contact and body language. At this point if you are doing it correctly your dogs ears will go back, head will dip submissivly and he/she will back away or turn sidewise eye contact will be submissive. Maintain the stance until the dog relaxes / sits, lies down etc. Finish the excercise by relaxing the eye contact and body posture, therefore ending on a posative note.
Nosing is normal (why I used it as an example), but you can usually see when a dog does not properly respect the space of an individual by bumping at the same time of nosing using their body weight to push etc. 
As for teach spacial respect with adults, its the same thing when adults come into my house as far as the dogs are concerned I own the visitors. Their space is my space. I would use verbal commands initially but if follow through is necessary eye contact plus body language as a follow through until the dog surrenders the space. In the doggy world everyone owns something. You just need to outline what you own. With pups it takes a lot longer to get the message across because like human babies they have a short attention span and ge excited very easily. With adults though you will be surprised just how quickly they catch on.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> First off i would never leave the kids un attended with a dog that does not respect their space, some wouldnt leave them unattended period. So chances are when the dog is moving towards the kids you can see it. I would use a loud verbal command such as easy which to my dog means slow down / look at me. If the dog continues forging forward thats when I use a NO followed by getting up and addressing the behavior using eye contact and body language as stated previously. If the kid get knocked down and you are a second late thats when you verbally correct and follow through with eye contact and body language. At this point if you are doing it correctly your dogs ears will go back, head will dip submissivly and he/she will back away or turn sidewise eye contact will be submissive. Maintain the stance until the dog relaxes / sits, lies down etc. Finish the excercise by relaxing the eye contact and body posture, therefore ending on a posative note.
> Nosing is normal (why I used it as an example), but you can usually see when a dog does not properly respect the space of an individual by bumping at the same time of nosing using their body weight to push etc.
> As for teach spacial respect with adults, its the same thing when adults come into my house as far as the dogs are concerned I own the visitors. Their space is my space. I would use verbal commands initially but if follow through is necessary eye contact plus body language as a follow through until the dog surrenders the space. In the doggy world everyone owns something. You just need to outline what you own. With pups it takes a lot longer to get the message across because like human babies they have a short attention span and ge excited very easily. With adults though you will be surprised just how quickly they catch on.


No, I don't leave my kids unattended with our dogs. I don't leave the cat unattended, either.The hallway is the biggest area of concern because that's where she is the least respectful....especially in the morning when I let her out to potty. 

So, claim my kids....I try looming over her and looking menacing, and she slinks away like I'm going to beat her. I think whoever owned her before abused her. She flinches at everything....especially if I get upset. I have never seen her display aggression towards any human, though. She does towards other dominant dogs that try to approach us, though....meaning her people.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Moxy, I think you need to train the kids and the dog and still you need to be there. My BrettaLee is over 8 yrs old and she'll still take a chunk out of me if we are playing tug and I don't 'manage' the play better.

As we speak I have a huge GSD hip sized hole in my wall from Glory and Bretta tearing around the house and slamming into the wall. Likewise in another wall from leaping onto the futon and it slamming back into the wall gouging a hole.

So what I'm saying (and I did NOT punish my dogs for either of those holes above) it many of our dogs just don't get the 'respect' thing at all. For adults, kids or walls. At least not when they are happy and romping.

What I can do is try to keep a lid on the rough housing in the house. And have longer tug toys when playing. Teach myself to manage the situation and play better. But, frankly, there are things I just don't do.

I know Bretta will get over excited and accidentally draw blood when playing ball, so I NEVER have kids play with her unless I am there, I get her to sit/stay/drop the ball and stay in place until after the ball is throw and released. Instead of yelling at her and getting her not to bite the kids (and maybe accidentally get a bite in when I have poor timing) I change the game to one I can take charge of and control.

A 2 yr old human and 9 month old human just can't be expected to be respected by my dog cause. I can teach my dog to stay with me and not with the kids. And I can teach my dogs WHEN IT'S QUIET and not crazy play time to 'go lay down' away from the kids. I can use baby gates, closed doors, pens (for kids and/or dogs) to manage everything. 

But an adult GSD will take time to learn to take care and be quieter. And the kids ALSO need to learn to respect and not get the dog cranked up!!!! 

Big thing in general though is all you can do with your dog WITH OUT the kids around. all the training and leadership role thru dog classes. Engagement training. Trick trainig. SOCIALIZATION outside the home so your dog is more confident and calmer in general, and learns to control itself in different situations. 

DOG CLASSES and tons of exercise will also vastly help the situation which, frankly may get harder when the kids get older and more active and screaming and having their active and screaming/running/throwing/ jumping/whatever friends over too!!!

aw:


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

FWIW, I have a 2 yr old too, and a 12 pound Ratty. Balen is a sweet, gentle dog but he sometimes gets excited and will bump into the other two, or run past them or crowd them out at the door way. What I do, and its been working pretty well so far, is when I see it getting ready to happen, like when I know we are all getting ready to walk into another room, as we get near the door way, I have Balen "sit" and "wait" and then I have him watch as my two year old goes through the doorway, and then I say, "OK!" and allow him through. This has taken a lot of consistency, especially since Balen has had ZERO training and we are also working on basic commands but we have been doing this for 5 days, and now he obeys the commands perfectly. My hope is that eventually I wont have to give the commands, and that he will "sit" "wait" and then go through all on his own.
Any other time, if he is just not paying attention to his body because he is excited, I give a loud, "ACK, ACK!" sort of noise and tell him to "be easy" He gets one chance at that, if he doesnt "be easy" I make him sit and "watch me" for 5-10 seconds to calm him down.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

PatchonGSD said:


> FWIW, I have a 2 yr old too, and a 12 pound Ratty. Balen is a sweet, gentle dog but he sometimes gets excited and will bump into the other two, or run past them or crowd them out at the door way. What I do, and its been working pretty well so far, is when I see it getting ready to happen, like when I know we are all getting ready to walk into another room, as we get near the door way, I have Balen "sit" and "wait" and then I have him watch as my two year old goes through the doorway, and the I say, "OK!" and allow him through. This has taken a lot of consistency, especially since Balen has had ZERO training and we are also working on basic commands but we have been doing this for 5 days, and now he obeys the commands perfectly. My hope is that eventually I wont have to give the commands, and that he will "sit" "wait" and then go through all on his own.
> 
> Any other time, if he is just not paying attention to his body because he is excited, I give a loud, "ACK, ACK!" sort of noise and tell him to "be easy" He gets one chance at that, if he doesnt "be easy" I make him sit and "watch me" for 5-10 seconds to calm him down.


Those are all great ways to work with this. It's proactive and involves the adult paying attention and giving direction and commands the dog can do and be rewarded for BEFORE the crisis occurs and screaming starts up.

Love it when there is a good plan in place!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Slinking is not an issue unless it occurs all the time, just a form of submission. Ears go back, head down body posture down, if you see two dogs one being the alpha and one the omega get into it over something and the alpha disciplines the omega the body posture is the same. This behaviour unless it occurs all the time around humans is not necessarily an indication of abuse.

She is slinking because she knows you are displeased and are behaving in an assertive manner towards her. The key is to link the discipline you are metting out to her misbehaviour towards your kids/pups. She needs to grasp that this is the consequence to her disrespecting the space belonging to your kids. Doing this consistently will get the message across. 
Had to do this to get my girl to stop rushing my chihuahua when off leash. She got it pretty quick.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

PatchonGSD said:


> FWIW, I have a 2 yr old too, and a 12 pound Ratty. Balen is a sweet, gentle dog but he sometimes gets excited and will bump into the other two, or run past them or crowd them out at the door way. What I do, and its been working pretty well so far, is when I see it getting ready to happen, like when I know we are all getting ready to walk into another room, as we get near the door way, I have Balen "sit" and "wait" and then I have him watch as my two year old goes through the doorway, and then I say, "OK!" and allow him through. This has taken a lot of consistency, especially since Balen has had ZERO training and we are also working on basic commands but we have been doing this for 5 days, and now he obeys the commands perfectly. My hope is that eventually I wont have to give the commands, and that he will "sit" "wait" and then go through all on his own.
> Any other time, if he is just not paying attention to his body because he is excited, I give a loud, "ACK, ACK!" sort of noise and tell him to "be easy" He gets one chance at that, if he doesnt "be easy" I make him sit and "watch me" for 5-10 seconds to calm him down.


I also like this approach, making a point of the dog waiting while the kids go through the door first is a good proactive approach and reinforces your message that the kids must be respected.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

PatchonGSD said:


> we are all getting ready to walk into another room, as we get near the door way, I have Balen "sit" and "wait" and then I have him watch as my two year old goes through the doorway, and then I say, "OK!" and allow him through.
> 
> My hope is that eventually I wont have to give the commands, and that he will "sit" "wait" and then go through all on his own.


Maybe this is why mine are great around kids. The wait command is an excellent command for dogs to learn. You can extend this to him waiting before he eats, goes outside, and when in the car and the door is being opened. Mine do not jump out of the car until I say okay..it is automatic. So don't be surprised when he starts to do this automatically when you tell him to wait in any situation. I love that wait command!!


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

What PatchonGSD said.

I have a young son....he was 3 when we got our GSD as a puppy. As he grew he would knock my son over all the time too.....lots of tears but only for a little while. I did what PatchonGSD does.
You have to anticipate with this....so don't wait for it to happen to train your dog.....identify the problem areas like your hallway and do the "sit" and the "waits" before the dog has a chance to knock the child over.
So for us a problem area was doors in the house and gateways in the yard. So Luther has been taught to sit and wait until we are all safely through then he is to come CALMLY through the gate or doorway. This training will spill into other areas as the dog will get the idea that the kids are to be "respected".
I also do the calming thing when he gets too excited....I use "settle" and give a signal with my hands and this is good to have when he is around the kids and getting hyped up as he knows he has to calm down a bit.
Good Luck


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

PatchonGSD said:


> FWIW, I have a 2 yr old too, and a 12 pound Ratty. Balen is a sweet, gentle dog but he sometimes gets excited and will bump into the other two, or run past them or crowd them out at the door way. What I do, and its been working pretty well so far, is when I see it getting ready to happen, like when I know we are all getting ready to walk into another room, as we get near the door way, I have Balen "sit" and "wait" and then I have him watch as my two year old goes through the doorway, and then I say, "OK!" and allow him through. This has taken a lot of consistency, especially since Balen has had ZERO training and we are also working on basic commands but we have been doing this for 5 days, and now he obeys the commands perfectly. My hope is that eventually I wont have to give the commands, and that he will "sit" "wait" and then go through all on his own.
> Any other time, if he is just not paying attention to his body because he is excited, I give a loud, "ACK, ACK!" sort of noise and tell him to "be easy" He gets one chance at that, if he doesnt "be easy" I make him sit and "watch me" for 5-10 seconds to calm him down.


Is the "wait" command the same or similar to "stay?"

In regards to the slinking comment. She also yelps if I move too quickly when I'm upset about something. Even if its not at her....or she goes and hides in her crate. Is that submissive, too? 

I don't want you guys to think Mox is bullying my kids or anything. She's just rambunctious, and, while she will respect my and my husband's space....or any adult, she just doesn't do it with my kids. And, I think sometimes, she just doesn't realize what she's doing. So, I'm going to be more assertive around my kids when I see it happen.

Thank you guys for the input!


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

Moxy said:


> Is the "wait" command the same or similar to "stay?"


No, they are not the same for me. I only use the wait command when I want him to just wait a minute or so, no longer, and that command is only ever followed by the "ok" command-to let him know that he can commence to doing whatever it was he was doing. I use the stay command (will use, lol) the stay command when he needs to stay put for several minutes or longer and he will only come out of the stay command with another actual command. Usually that would be "come" but it depends on what you're doing obviously. Others might use wait/stay interchangeably, but I keep them separate so he knows what is expected of him.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/189352-training-body-awareness.html

Not just you! These dogs don't understand size when they are ramming around: theirs, ours, etc. 

Wait is similar to stay - I use stay for "do not move ever" (ish) and then wait is "you will stay here briefly until it is time to move on" but you can use the word tomato if you want. 

Picking one or two of these to work on could help: http://www.sotcdogtraining.com/pdf/Body_Awareness.pdf grab a clicker, some treats and have some fun with it. There are videos and MaggieRoseLee may have some she recommends (I don't want to recommend and then have them be not so good). Some training places have tricks classes. 

This is some simple stuff: <> DIAMONDS in the RUFF - Training For Dogs & Their People - Toddlers & Dogs <> but clear. 

I think a sport like agility - just for fun - would really be great for her. I like to watch the way they train, too.

ETA - there are some really smart agility people on this board running GSDs - check out that section - but don't be intimidated by all their ability in agility!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Moxy said:


> Is the "wait" command the same or similar to "stay?"
> 
> In regards to the slinking comment. She also yelps if I move too quickly when I'm upset about something. Even if its not at her....or she goes and hides in her crate. Is that submissive, too?
> 
> ...


*Knowing now that she can be fearful of you be calm and assertive with an emphasis on calm so not to loud not to fast and keep your eye contact softer then initially indicated. Think of it as helping a disabled child understand right from wrong. The fact that she is sensative and fearful / makes things a bit more difficult because you need to find that ballance between your message and also maintaining the dog's nerve. *

*As other members have stated training the sit / wait at the door can also give her an alternate form of behavior to fall into. *


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Moxy said:


> Is the "wait" command the same or similar to "stay?"


Wait is more temporary then stay for me too. Its important that you don't set the dog up to fail. If the dog doesn't have any training, I would work on very brief waits with rewards. As the dog learns the waits can become longer and then move into stays. And always remember to have a release word. The command is not complete until its given, its done, and then released.


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## Lucky Paw (Sep 29, 2012)

my 10 month old just started to realize how big and clumsy he was , as far as my 6 month old female, she is wreckless she always jumps on top of me and gets me dirty


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