# Help ! New dog vs Puppy



## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

As if I didn't have enough on my plate already I impulsively picked up a 3 year female GSD 75% west show line 25% east working with a great ped for future endeavors. She is great with people and my adult dogs.
She is perfect in every way except fast movements ( dog running ect ) send her into a frenzy) She will aggresivly attack my other adult dogs . Luckily they are stable minded and smart so they just stop. 
Problem is Spatz the 3 month old pup. 
She has little social skills ( removed from mom to early ) and my other dogs are overly tolerant and let her do whatever she wants. 
Spatz barks at her non stop , the new female wants to kill her. I am not exaggerating. 
She watches her like a dog watches a rabbit before she kills it. I put a muzzle on her and a poke collar to see if maybe I was wrong. 
I was not . She viciously attacked the puppy. 
After she nipped the pup twice ( more of a bump with muzzle on ) the puppy submitted to her and layer on her back. Again she attacked her. 
I have no doubt that if somehow she was able to reach this pup, she would kill her.
She has had a litter a year ago and was told she was a excellent mother. 
What can I do ?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

4 (or more?) dog household and Spatz is also a female? With this type of introduction and dynamic, I personally would not keep them both.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

I would rehome the new, elder dog. Spatz will require a lot of training for the next couple of years minimum. The new dog will need time to settle in and even more time for any behavioral issues to be resolved. Rehoming is the safest for Spatz (in the event the elder dog will aggress).

If you are not willing to do this, keep them completely separate. Crate and rotate with secure crates they can’t break out of. Spending equal time training with both, particularly with impulse control in the elder dog.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

I would not want this stress in my life. I would definitely re-home the new female.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Impulsively picked her up?
Impulsively take her back.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Depending how much stress you can tolerate in your life, I would either rehome them both or just the new one if you have time to work with the pup.


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

Fodder said:


> 4 (or more?) dog household and Spatz is also a female? With this type of introduction and dynamic, I personally would not keep them both.


One adult intact male , Spatz is 3 months and will eventually be going to my father when his radiation treatments are over . And now the new 3 year old intact female. The 4th dog also female ( 8 months old ) has been adopted ( foster) prior to new dog coming. So 3 dogs total.


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

Wunderwhy6 said:


> I would rehome the new, elder dog. Spatz will require a lot of training for the next couple of years minimum. The new dog will need time to settle in and even more time for any behavioral issues to be resolved. Rehoming is the safest for Spatz (in the event the elder dog will aggress).
> 
> If you are not willing to do this, keep them completely separate. Crate and rotate with secure crates they can’t break out of. Spending equal time training with both, particularly with impulse control in the elder dog.


They are kept completely separated , rotations and securely confined . Adult gets worked with daily and spatz gets worked with all day long. 
I do not work outside the home so I have all the time to work with them. I just need suggestions , she isn't my first dog aggresive adult dog I've had . Just never seen a female so aggresive toward a puppy.


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Impulsively picked her up?
> Impulsively take her back.


She is here to stay , so I have to figure this out. She is fine with the adult dogs. And non reactive to other dogs while walking. 
She just hates the pup.


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

wolfy dog said:


> Depending how much stress you can tolerate in your life, I would either rehome them both or just the new one if you have time to work with the pup.


I am up for the challenge . Neither are being let go. 
Any suggestions on moving forward ?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I see.
you referenced "other adult dogs" multiple times.... that lead me to believe that there were more than just the 1 adult male.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

luluburkmier said:


> She is here to stay , so I have to figure this out. She is fine with the adult dogs. And non reactive to other dogs while walking.
> She just hates the pup.


Keep them seperated 100% of the time for the forseeable future. You don’t want to hand off a traumatized puppy to your dad.


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

Fodder said:


> I see.
> you referenced "other adult dogs" multiple times.... that lead me to believe that there were more than just the 1 adult male.


She gets along with the neighbors adult dogs and my fathers other shepherd. She gets overly excited if they run or play roughly . She wants to stop them immediately. She is new to my home and routine so I do believe in an adjustment period. I don't give up that easy. 
She is a great dog in all other aspects so far.


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

Sonny1984 said:


> Keep them seperated 100% of the time for the forseeable future. You don’t want to hand off a traumatized puppy to your dad.


The pup is part of the issue. She is sweet with my adult male , any other dog she sees she runs up playfully but then starts barking non stop at them. 
I think of it as a screaming toddler , very annoying and give it a toy to shut it up. Of course I do not do that with the pup. But I imagine the dogs she encounters feel the same way. 
She doesn't act afraid of other dogs ( she readily runs up to them ) , she has no manners. 
When she starts her yapping I correct her ,pick her up and remove her from the situation. 
She is very vocal with us too. If I tell her no , she tells me off.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

luluburkmier said:


> she isn't my first dog aggresive adult dog I've had


What did you do with those dogs?


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

In your original post you said she aggressively attacks your other adult dogs. That running dogs throw her into a frenzy. She obviously needs some training and structure before another dog gets hurt. Good luck with all that.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

luluburkmier said:


> The pup is part of the issue. She is sweet with my adult male , any other dog she sees she runs up playfully but then starts barking non stop at them.
> I think of it as a screaming toddler , very annoying and give it a toy to shut it up. Of course I do not do that with the pup. But I imagine the dogs she encounters feel the same way.
> She doesn't act afraid of other dogs ( she readily runs up to them ) , she has no manners.
> When she starts her yapping I correct her ,pick her up and remove her from the situation.
> She is very vocal with us too. If I tell her no , she tells me off.


Neither dog has manners, the puppy or the new adult. My 11 month old gsd used to be an annoying overly confident pup, and it was up to me to keep him from getting his ass kicked. Manners develop over time - it sounds like the nice adults will be much better teachers than the new one. Now my dog is the mean one to puppies - I get it, they are annoying as **** to him. So I make sure he’s not around them. There are many combinations of dogs where the easiest and safest solution is just keep them seperated.
edit: that’s my advice if you’re gonna keep the dog. But it doesn’t seem fair to the new dog or the puppy really, it’s just not ideal so why do it if you don’t have to. Im in the take the new dog back camp, as hard as I know that is to do


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

Apex1 said:


> What did you do with those dogs?


Some were family dogs when I was a child . 
Others were foster dogs .


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

ksotto333 said:


> In your original post you said she aggressively attacks your other adult dogs. That running dogs throw her into a frenzy. She obviously needs some training and structure before another dog gets hurt. Good luck with all that.


Exactly , do you have any training methods you recommend?


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

Sonny1984 said:


> Neither dog has manners, the puppy or the new adult. My 11 month old gsd used to be an annoying overly confident pup, and it was up to me to keep him from getting his ass kicked. Manners develop over time - it sounds like the nice adults will be much better teachers than the new one. Now my dog is the mean one to puppies - I get it, they are annoying as **** to him. So I make sure he’s not around them. There are many combinations of dogs where the easiest and safest solution is just keep them seperated.
> edit: that’s my advice if you’re gonna keep the dog. But it doesn’t seem fair to the new dog or the puppy really, it’s just not ideal so why do it if you don’t have to. Im in the take the new dog back camp, as hard as I know that is to do


Spatz ( the pup ) is here on a temporary basis, she will be going to my father . Then I can devote all my time to the new gal. I am confident I can keep them both secure. Spatz has my male to interact with during the day , then she is crated in the living room over night. At night my male is free roam while the new female is crated securely in the front room . 
The new female is kenneled in a 20x20 during the day if the weather is good, if not she is kept on my 12x24 enclosed porch.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

luluburkmier said:


> She is here to stay , so I have to figure this out. She is fine with the adult dogs. And non reactive to other dogs while walking.
> She just hates the pup.


Then you're already doing the short term solution:
"They are kept completely separated , rotations and securely confined"

Once you have the relationship/bonding/respect from the new girl, you can lay down the ground rules with her and the new pup. Might be a few weeks or never. In a bit, I'd be giving them exposure to each other but not access and go from there.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

It sounds as if both need to be worked for impulse control and dog neutrality. There are many different ways to go about working on this depending on the dog and the emotion/desire fueling the behaviors (inappropriate excitement vs desire to chase vs desire to hunt/kill). 

I am still very much learning this area of training as well with Kai, so I do not want to offer incorrect help. The only thing I would suggest is finding a solid, balanced trainer to help with each dog individually (I apologize if you have said you already have one-I’ve been awake for 36hours so my memory is starting to lack). I’ve also been watching Denise fenzi from fenzi dog sport academy. She is raising a terv puppy now and spending a lot of time on desensitizing the pup to stimuli.


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## peachygeorgia (Oct 5, 2021)

Wunderwhy6 said:


> It sounds as if both need to be worked for impulse control and dog neutrality. There are many different ways to go about working on this depending on the dog and the emotion/desire fueling the behaviors (inappropriate excitement vs desire to chase vs desire to hunt/kill).
> 
> I am still very much learning this area of training as well with Kai, so I do not want to offer incorrect help. The only thing I would suggest is finding a solid, balanced trainer to help with each dog individually (I apologize if you have said you already have one-I’ve been awake for 36hours so my memory is starting to lack). I’ve also been watching Denise fenzi from fenzi dog sport academy. She is raising a terv puppy now and spending a lot of time on desensitizing the pup to stimuli.


I love Denise and watching her work with her Terv! I second this recommendation


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Then you're already doing the short term solution:
> "They are kept completely separated , rotations and securely confined"
> 
> Once you have the relationship/bonding/respect from the new girl, you can lay down the ground rules with her and the new pup. Might be a few weeks or never. In a bit, I'd be giving them exposure to each other but not access and go from there.


Thank you ! 
Are there any counter conditioning exercises I can do to work on her self control , and anything I can do to help teach the puppy correct greetings ?


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

I would let the new dog have a few weeks to settle into the household. No interaction with other dogs during that time. She may feel threatened being thrown into a whole new situation and strange new dogs.

Please search 2 week shut down. Give her time and space to get used to you and your home. Then you can try to introduce her gradually to one dog at a time. But I wouldn't risk her with the puppy. Not ever.


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

Pawsed said:


> I would let the new dig have a few weeks to settle into the household. No interaction with other dogs during that time. She may feel threatened being thrown into a whole new situation and strange new dogs.
> 
> Please search 2 week shut down. Give her time and space to get used to you and your home. Then you can try to introduce her gradually to one dog at a time. But I wouldn't risk her with the puppy. Not ever.


Thank you very much ! I will definitely look into 2 week shut down..


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

Making progress ,
Puppy and adult now are interacting through a baby gate . I am also able to have them in the same room leashed and muzzled.








I wouldn't trust her without a muzzle ,but the craziness is subsiding. No more lunging and snapping. They are not friends by any means buy they are tolerating each other and 75 percent of the time puppy submits to adult.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

luluburkmier said:


> Making progress ,
> Puppy and adult now are interacting through a baby gate . I am also able to have them in the same room leashed and muzzled.
> View attachment 586212
> 
> I wouldn't trust her without a muzzle ,but the craziness is subsiding. No more lunging and snapping. They are not friends by any means buy they are tolerating each other and 75 percent of the time puppy submits to adult.


Great job managing the situation. That’s awesome you’re seeing progress already.


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)




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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

Everyone now gets along! No muzzles or leashes . They are officially friends 😊


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

luluburkmier said:


> Everyone now gets along! No muzzles or leashes . They are officially friends 😊


Not as difficult as some imagined then...go figure! And congratulations for just giving them time to adjust!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

luluburkmier said:


> Everyone now gets along! No muzzles or leashes . They are officially friends 😊


Well done! Bravo! 🏆 It took Deja 5 weeks to accept Bo as a friend and pack member


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)




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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

N*ever thought I would see the day that Journey allowed Sparrow to use her as a chair. 🤣 *


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

She has already established her rank so she can let the brat think he is on top of her until he gets overboard nd needs to be set back in his place. I love these dynamics. The couch photo; you can tell who owns the toys. Great pictures,


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## luluburkmier (Nov 9, 2021)

These two have become inseparable!
So anyone else dealing with a similar situation , hang in there ! I am sure not every story ends so well but this one did.


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