# Uncontrolled Urination in 5 month old...



## chiefbrody (Jun 23, 2011)

I have a five month old neutered german shepherd puppy. I have had him since he was three months old. I also have an 8 year old shepherd mix and 5 year old dachshund mix, both neutered. Here's our problem:

My new gsd puppy appears to have problems controlling his urination. This goes beyond excited tinkling as I would expect in submissive urination. At times, he just dribbles, at other times, his bladder appears to let go in one swoosh(i.e. he doesn't appear to notice), and other times he will actually just squat and pee. He does this all over shoes, feet, or whatever he is near, whether it is his bed, crate, etc. and it is a great deal of urine, not just little puddles. 

I am familiar with gsds and raised my previous wgsd from 13 weeks on. I have never experienced anything like this, even in abuse cases that I have fostered in the past or just smaller dogs that do occasionally display submissive urination. In fact, my 8 year old is a rescue(as a puppy) and will urinate when scared so we have had lots of practice approaching dogs calmly and not exciting/scaring them with our behavior. 

I do know he has some control as he will not urinate in the car (vet trips). Another important note, he is NOT always excited when the urination occurs. Many times he is in a calm state and relaxed, although he will not do it while receiving belly rubs, as I might expect with submissive behavior. 

I am at a loss. I have taken him to the vet (whom I love and always does a great job) who ran an analysis of his blood to monitor kidney/liver functioning. The analysis came back at healthy levels. He did have a few crystals in his urine which cleared up with a change in diet. I have also contacted the breeder I got him from. She is sending us to her vet to explore this problem. He shows no symptoms of any discomfort and is a wonderfully sweet dog. I have monitored his water intake and it is normal. I have tried crate training and it has not helped. We do not react when he urinates(no punishment/disapproving verbalizing towards him). We've tried ignoring it and it seems to be getting worse. He is dominant towards my other dogs, but is not aggressive. 

We do not have a behaviorist that I know of in the area so I really need suggestions if anyone has any.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Why was he neutered so young? I hope the vet can find a reason, maybe maturity will help as his bladder gets stronger. 
Why do you think you need a behaviorist? It isn't behavioral, but medical. I wonder if the early neuter is the cause....


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Messed up neuter?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

sagelfn said:


> Messed up neuter?


agree


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## chiefbrody (Jun 23, 2011)

*Problem began before neuter....*

He was neutered at 4 months old since this is when my vet recommended it. I didn't realize that was early. Also, the problem was present before he was neutered. I thought it might be behavioral since my vet could find no medical reason for it. However, he has an appointment Monday with the breeder's vet for a second oppinion.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

In my experience with my submissive GSD,puppies or dogs do not squat to show submission or express excitement,it just comes out. So the squatting,in my opinion,is a different animal and a conscious behavior by the pup. Excitement urination can be dribbling or full expression. I've never seen a submissive dribble,only puddling. Pup might have medical and nerve issues. The nerve issues,if present,will modify but never disappear. It's gonna be tough to remain calm,good luck.


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## chiefbrody (Jun 23, 2011)

*Update...*

I took my pup to see the vet who treats all of the breeder's dogs where I got him. Here's the diagnosis:

bladder infection (although I did have him screened for this on his first visit and there was no bacteria found then like there was yesterday, he was put on antibiotics for a small amount of crystals in his urine)
AND behavioral

He is now on antibiotics again and we are trying a medication the doc gave him for anxiety and it doesn't make him loopy or appear drugged at all. The behavioral meds are temporary while we work with him on some training issues. So far (and knock on wood) it seems to be working already. I have him inside right now which has been impossible in the past unless we wanted a river inside. He still has a dribble every now and then but nowhere near the amount he used to. The vet felt that a combination of the three, antibiotics, behavior meds(temporarily), and training should make a huge difference. I am really hoping that this will be the answer and he can be the inside dog I'd envisioned bringing into my family.


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## chiefbrody (Jun 23, 2011)

*Right on the money (hopefully)...*



lrodptl said:


> In my experience with my submissive GSD,puppies or dogs do not squat to show submission or express excitement,it just comes out. So the squatting,in my opinion,is a different animal and a conscious behavior by the pup. Excitement urination can be dribbling or full expression. I've never seen a submissive dribble,only puddling. :shockedup might have medical and nerve issues. :shocked:The nerve issues,if present,will modify but never disappear. It's gonna be tough to remain calm,good luck.


You were exactly right! (I included the hopefully in the Title b/c I am hopeful that this is what we are dealing with. Now that I have a direction to work in I feel better.) I have another shepherd mix that is highly sensitive and will urinate inside if afraid so we have some experience with it.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

chiefbrody said:


> You were exactly right! (I included the hopefully in the Title b/c I am hopeful that this is what we are dealing with. Now that I have a direction to work in I feel better.) I have another shepherd mix that is highly sensitive and will urinate inside if afraid so we have some experience with it.


I had to keep in touch with the breeder and attend training with 2 different approaches to figure out how I was going to make this relationship work. The biggest thing was remaining calm,always,and letting him mature. Maturity took away the excitement urination and awareness has reduced the submissive urination to almost never. When it does happen I know my mistake. We had to be trained in the use of Dogtra in order to remove any emotion from correction which would cause him to retreat,cower and maybe urinate. We rarely ever have to correct him as he is quite obedient and a simple "NO" (without raised voice) hits him like a hammer. Anyway,I think you'll also find that with a lot of self awareness,calmness,and bonding,everything will be fine.


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## chiefbrody (Jun 23, 2011)

*Update 2...*

We are almost a week in to being on behavioral meds and antibiotics. I am weaning him down to one a day as the vet suggested. He is doing very well. He still occasionally has a dribble, but nothing like before. We have been able to continue his training inside. My husband and I have worked with each other on keeping emotion out of our voices. It is definitely hard when a 53 lb. puppy lands on top of the clean clothes pile on the sofa(from 4 feet away) or even better, in your lap. However, we feel these are normal puppy behaviors that we can correct with consistent training. 

I have also changed his food to Natural Balance grain-free to avoid future bladder infections and help with his dry skin. So far, so good, although I do want to try one of the supplements I have found for urinary health.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

chiefbrody said:


> We are almost a week in to being on behavioral meds and antibiotics. I am weaning him down to one a day as the vet suggested. He is doing very well. He still occasionally has a dribble, but nothing like before. We have been able to continue his training inside. My husband and I have worked with each other on keeping emotion out of our voices. It is definitely hard when a 53 lb. puppy lands on top of the clean clothes pile on the sofa(from 4 feet away) or even better, in your lap. However, we feel these are normal puppy behaviors that we can correct with consistent training.
> 
> I have also changed his food to Natural Balance grain-free to avoid future bladder infections and help with his dry skin. So far, so good, although I do want to try one of the supplements I have found for urinary health.


Don't forget some boundaries and limitations,a puppy with urination issues should probably have limited room access.


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