# Chiro Again?



## DancingCavy

Risa has some back issues. I don't know that it is ever not bothering her, but some days certainly seem worse than others. Fortunately she hasn't had any really noticibly bad days lately. Those days involve her not wanting to hop up onto the couch or bed and yelping.









I took her to get a chiropractic adjustment a month or two ago. The doctor wasn't sure if she'd fixed Ris' problem or not and sent me home with some Deramaxx to use when Ris' back is bothering her. I also was placed on the list to see the human chiro whenever he comes in (he only rarely comes in and then it's a first come, first serve basis with limited advanced notice). I haven't heard anything about the human chiro coming in and I wonder if I should just call and make an appointment for the regular doctor to take another pass at fixing Ris' back. Maybe do some X-rays too.

I haven't given her much of the Deramaxx. Partly because I'm not a huge fan of it but also I know it doesn't fix the underlying problem.

What do you think?


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## LisaT

How did Risa act after the adjustment? Did the vet do the adjustment? Has the vet had the training?

I think occasionally one adjustment might fix an acute problem, but with ongoing problems, some type of maintenance is usually helpful, even if it's every month or two. My mutts have to go about every 3 weeks cuz my girl has a chronic neurological problem.


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## DancingCavy

Ris seemed fine after the adjustment. . .but then she acts like a crazy thing most of the time anyway. Whether she's in pain or not. That night she played hard with puppies which, looking back, may not have been the best idea.

The vet did do the adjustment and she has had training. She was recommended by my trainer whose dogs have been adjusted by her before. But Risa is not a calm and relaxed dog at the vet (anxious and scared) and was probably tight which I'm sure doesn't help when you're trying to adjust her.


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## LisaT

Just listening to the post-treatment plan that you were given, it didn't sound like a typical chiro. Makes sense that it was the vet.


If you have her adjusted again (and I would), you could try to give a Scullcap and a St. John's Wort capsule a bit before hand to relieve some nerve pain and relax some of the muscles. I feed my skittish dog treats while she gets adjusted -- otherwise she would tolerate it because she is so sensitive.


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## DancingCavy

Ris did get treats as she was worked on to keep it a positive experience. She is getting better while she's there though she's still anxious. I'm sure the second time she'd probably be a bit more comfortable.

I really wish that human chiro would show up (and at a time when I could get Risa in) since I heard so many good things about him.

Thanks for the advice so far. It's been very helpful.


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## LisaT

I really like having a human chiro work on the dogs -- they do have a bit of a different perspective than most vet chiros, and I think usually they have a bit better hands because they are doing the same thing as their primary job all day every day. That being said, I'm sure it depends on the individual.

Indy was always anxious, and probably still is after year of getting adjusted. But when it's her turn, she just walks over to me and hurries me to start the feeding frenzy. Now I think she's only bothered on the real ouchy parts.

Hope you find something to help Ris soon!


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## DancingCavy

Well the vet seems to think the human chiro works miracles.







Apparently they had a really ornery cat as a patient and after this guy worked on him he was like a whole new cat! So I have confidence he'd be good for Ris. But with Ris' general uncomfortableness (fear) of men, it might be more difficult to get her to allow him to do his job. I'd bring LOTS of treats.

I will probably call the vet after the Holiday and see if I can get Risa in to be worked on again.


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## LisaT

Best of luck -- let us know how it goes if/when you get in!


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## DancingCavy

Will do!

I have to call them this week to get her Heartguard refilled anyway and will probably try and set up an appointment when I go in to pick it up.


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## debbiebrown

i don't know if this was mentioned because i didn't read all the posts. but when i took a few of my gsd's to chiro before i always wondered why they did not heat up the muscles before hand like my chiro person does. it makes sense that if the tendons a muscles are heated up the adjustment goes in better. i was kind of discusted anyway with the vet chiro we were using. he came in and spent no more than 3-5 minutes doing a quick adjustment and charged 50.00, plus the fact that one of those dogs i took in their had a bad disc in his neck and he adjusted it the first time and it sent him into a relapse. after that we had to tell him not to adjust the neck, and he came close to doing it anyway until we said something. you really have to be careful. i have been tempted many times to use a human chiro for future dogs.

debbie


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## LisaT

oooohhhh, what a terrible experience. I hate that "assembly line" mode -- and clearly it wasn't helpful for your boy!!

I don't know why they don't do any muscle work either -- my human chiro doesn't, but I tried to do some work on them the night before the adjustment (to get them ready) and the night of the adjustmeent (to help their muscles relax into the adjustment.

I'm a huge believer in hearing a few referrals for any practitioner, though sometimes it's not possible. The vet/acupuncturist that I use now I just found and have been very fortunate. Luckily, I did have a good referral for our chiro.


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## middleofnowhere

It's been my experience that different chiros have different modes of working. The guy that has done the most good doesn't do the heat treatment (at least not for what I was seeing him for.) He is pretty amazing both with me & my dog.


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## debbiebrown

i can't imagine myself being adjusted without heat or electrical stimulation before hand. its got to be alot more uncomfortable.

Lisa, good idea for you to work the muscles before hand. this is what i would do if we have to use a vet chiro again that doesn't use heat/stimulation before hand.

unfortunately there are vets out there that go to quicky weekend seminars to get certified for pet chiro just to make big $$$$$ on the side. and then use your pet for practice. i could have done a better job then what this guy did with my dogs. anyone that is looking into chiro for their dog wants to check into how much schooling and experience, credentials, etc. not just a weekend or two certification. 

debbie


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## srfd44-2

Just took Kai for his adjustment the other day. He had an episode when my girlfriend closed the storm door on his tail and she didn't realize it. My human Chiro adjusted me and him. Both of us were pretty messed up. She even adjusted 3 places on his tail ! 

There are not too many vet chiros in our area. Both of the chiros that have worked on me and my dogs have been for humans. Both Dr. Hoff and Dr. Therkelsen have been excellent with me and my dogs.


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## Maedchen

My best experience with a chiropractor has been with the one (human chiro) who does Network Spinal Analysis. He didn't use any conventional adjustment methods, just "tapped" the spine on certain locations. With humans they also learn how to breath. I still use the spot along the spine on my dogs and it helps. It's much gentler, but also effective.


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## LisaT

I've always been intrigued by the Network Spinal Analysis, I don't understand it!

debbie, the certification and training is why I always recommend someone that has been through the AVCA chiro training -- it is extensive. You're right about some of those weekend seminars!!


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## DancingCavy

Well, unfortunately I am in Montana and limited. The vet I go to is the closest to homeopathic that there is in the area. And even that's not 100% or anything (hence the Deramaxx prescription).

I really would like to get an appointment with the other guy. . .but I've heard nothing. Maybe I'll ask about it when I call for Ris' Heartguard refill--which I still haven't done yet. Crazy holidays.


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## LisaT

agree, crazy holidays!


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## middleofnowhere

Just for the record - My chiro/accupuncture vet spent a year working with a chiropractor learning her techniques. Neither of them used heat with the dog(s) or me. No, it wasn't painful at all although he said it might be (it was feet and legs I was having worked on.) The results were outstanding - stuff that an orthopedist physician had worked on without very good results was taken care of so I felt better almost immediately.

I know what you mean by having limited availability - even in Arkansas it's limited. In Wyoming it was conventional only and specialists were two hours away - either East or West...


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## debbiebrown

i still don't get it about not using heat or massaging areas for a better more comfortable adjustment. any living thing with muscles or tendons, etc would only benifit from using this before hand. i have had adjustments myself both with and without heat/and or muscle stimulation. i definitely saw a difference both in comfort and the effect with the stimulation before hand.

debbie


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## LisaT

I actually found a better response with massage *after*, in helping the muscles accept the adjustment and break the holding patterns...but I've always been a bit different


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## debbiebrown

ha ha! lisa.....i won't comment on that!!!!!!!!!









all of us dog health people are a bit queer!!!!!!!!!









debbie


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## LisaT

We are a breed of our own, aren't we


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## debbiebrown

yep, thats for sure!!!!!!!! if its not tick borne, fixable by a chiropractor what else could it be????hmmmmmmmmmm???

debbie


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## LisaT

Yep, no need for those heavy medical texts -- what are they thinking


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## debbiebrown

yes, what are they thinking! how about "LisaT's Medical Bible"

has a ring to it! lol!

debbie


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## LisaT

Wow, once every two or four or six weeks to the chiro, and put everyone on doxy -- we wouldn't need the health boards anymore!


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## debbiebrown

yep, we are a breed of our own! doxy and a quick adjustment ought to do it!


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## DancingCavy

LOL.

Well Ris' back seems to be feeling a bit better. I had her out on Monday to play fetch which usually aggrevates her back. I tried to keep it a bit easy but Ris doesn't seem to have any speed other than _fast_. After the session, I massaged her back with the Happy Massager. She doesn't seem to be slow going up the stairs (an easy to see indicator of back pain) so I might hold off on the appointment for now.

Still need to call about her Heartguard though.


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## LisaT

I guess I prefer to be more proactive -- I know that I can't see any pain in Max unless it's bad.


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## DancingCavy

Yeah, I thought about that too when she was a bit slower coming up the stairs after one of our potty breaks yesterday. Sometimes I honestly don't know what to do with her (in more ways than one). I'll probably end up calling the vet early next week (I don't have time to pick up the meds til next week anyway) and seeing if I can get her in on Saturday next weekend. What a lovely Birthday present that will be! Considering how much she dislikes going.


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## LisaT

I think that they are masters at compensating, and misalignments can be taken care of *much* more easily if you address them as they occur, rather than letting them settle in, and have the rest of the body compensate. I know it's a pain, but proactive, at least in my book, always pays off in the long run.


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## DancingCavy

Agreed. I much prefer to be proactive as well.

I actually think her back's been bothering her since March when I had her hips X-rayed. She was sick with SIBO at the time and was slow to get into the car. I thought hips then but now I think it could have been her back. So off to the vet we shall go again. I hope it works this time.


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## Bluewolf

...wishing Risa the best.


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## LisaT

I hope it works too....

if they had her under anesthesia for the xrays, that could have misaligned her?


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## DancingCavy

Nope, no anesthesia for the X-rays.







She may not like what the vets do, but she's the type that just puts up with it. No sedation of any type was used for the films. Plus she was 'ouchy' before the X-rays were taken.


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## LisaT

What a good girl to be so patient with the xrays. 

Hope you find a way to make her less ouchy.


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## DancingCavy

Took fuzzy to the dog park yesterday to play. I tried to keep it easy on her to avoid hurting her back. But Risa only has one speed--FAST--so it was tough. I tried to play light fetch with her but no matter how short the throw was she took off like a bolt anyway. She also spent time running full out after other dogs which I had no control over. 

I gave her a Deramaxx with dinner last night to try and prevent soreness today. Didn't work at all. She's definately slow up the stairs again. 

Called the vet. Fortunately the chiropractic vet is in this Saturday so we've got an appointment at 9. I will bring a ton of treats and hope the adjustment works better this time.


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## LisaT

Keeping my fingers crossed that this does the trick.

Have you ever tried any cetyl myristoleate for her?

http://www.vitacost.com/Jarrow-Formulas-True-CMO-Cetyl-Myristoleate


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## DancingCavy

I haven't. She actually doesn't take any supplements right now. I did consider starting some gluco/chondroit but if it's not a bone/joint issue I don't know that it would help much. Does the cetyl myristoleate work more for bone/joint issues or soft-tissue stuff? Ris is raw-fed so she probably gets some from her foods (since it's found in connective tissue) though not likely in high amounts.


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## LisaT

I actually think it helps more with soft-tissue stuff, though it helps with some bone stuff too. With back issues, and knowing how painful it can be as they progress, I would be *very* proactive, particularly with an 3 year old dog.

I would definitely start her on the gluco/chond, unless you know for sure there is no arthritis anywhere in her joints an spine and she won't get any. I had to start my 35 pound mutt when she was very young (12 months), and at 10 1/2 she doesn't have any arthritis yet. Of course the chiro helps with that too. (In her youth, I used to do agility with Indy, but her lyme vaccine reactions put an end to that.)


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## DancingCavy

Considering I was hoping to make an agility dog out of her, I definately want to nip any problems in the bud. Plus I feel bad for her being all ouchy. It makes it very difficult for me to keep her active since it's too dark to walk her after work and playing fetch in the courtyard aggrevates her back. I think she was even a bit sore after our 3ish mile long walk on Saturday.

I will definately talk to her vet and see what she recommends and consider starting Ris on some G/C and the other stuff you mentioned. I don't know what mix she is exactly but I do think she could be part greyhound. I know they're relatively healthy dogs but are prone to back issues. Makes me wonder/worry.

She's still active, even though I think she regrets it later (been there myself). Poor dog. She'll be 4 this week (semi-officially) and it seems she's far too young to be experiencing these problems.


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## LisaT

Part greyhound could mean low back issues in particular. Depending on where she came from, it could also mean inherited tick disease?

My girl probably has some whippet in her, so I know what you mean about Ris. Indy too used to overdo it, and at times, she still does.

I would keep her pretty quiet and still (as best as possible) the day of, and preferably the day after the adjustment. If she is anything like Indy, she'll feel better, overdo it, and then be back where she started -- all ouchy!


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## DancingCavy

Well she's originally from Butte, MT. Dunno what kind of care she got there (heh, not much) and I do know she was often out on her own running free; which is how she ended up at the shelter. Considering she weighed about 32 lbs when they took her in, was 36 when I brought her home, and weighs about 41 now (she was at 46 at one point--though not fat then either). I don't know how common ticks are out here other than if you're not in wooded areas you pretty much don't have to worry about it.

I took her out for fun this weekend because I figured I'd have to keep her rested after her chiro visit. I shouldn't have any problems keeping her calm over the weekend. Though I think she'll be a bit diappointed we aren't going anywhere fun. I'll play some 'mind games' with her in the house to keep her from going nuts. Even though keeping her from bouncing all over the place is near impossible.







I'll also be nice and let her ride the elevator instead of taking the stairs. She used to be afraid of it. . .but now she loves it. Silly dog. If we walk past it on the ground floor she will try and go use it instead of following me directly towards the stairs.


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## LisaT

She sounds like a great little dog. I saw the pics of her in the fat/skinny thread -- she's very charming


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## DancingCavy

She is one of a kind, that's for sure.


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## DancingCavy

Took Risa in this morning. She was much better for the adjustment (and I had a bag full of cheese to help) though still _really_ tense in her back. The doctor was able to adjust her neck fairly easily but isn't sure how much she was able to do for Ris' back. She did show me a little something I can do at home that might help too. I have her on full rest for the weekend (she'll be a nutjob by Monday) with no strenous activity, elevator rides, and me lifting her into the bed at night. 

The doctor would like to do acupuncture on Risa but she feels if she accidentally hurt Ris inserting a needle it would be the end of the treatment. She's right--Ris wouldn't be so willing after that. However, she does have some sort of infared machine that works similarly that she'd like to try on Ris. She's loaning it to another vet at the moment but wants me to call back in 3 weeks or so to schedule an appointment to use that on Ris.

I asked her about supplements and she said gluco/chondroit certainly wouldn't hurt and practically recommends it for all dogs. Of course, I forgot to ask what dosage of g/c I should use for Ris and forgot to ask about the other supplement entirely. I stopped at the local health food store and looked through the supplements. They carry both the g/c and MSM as well as the cetyl m-whatever it was.







There was only a 140 capsule bottle of the cetyl m there and it was like $44 so I'm gonna hold off on that one for right now and might just get it online. I'll call the vet on Monday and see if I can find out how much g/c to dose and what the doctor thinks about the cetyl m.


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## LisaT

For my girl that is 35 pounds, I give her about a 1/3 of a human dose for g/c. The dosage might depend on the actual product/brand that you use.

I get most of my supplements online because of price, but try to support the local health food store when I can. The cetyl-m







, for many dogs, may be a temporary product. It's thought that you give them one or two bottles, and then it's done it's job. I find that I used to have to put Indy on it every couple of years, but at her age, it might become more frequent. It seems to help lubricate the muscles. I know that all brands are not alike, so I stick with the one brand that I know works. I'm not sure if all vets are familiar with it or not?

I'm glad that the chiro could at least get the neck -- tough about the back though. Sounds like me at the chiro, though my neck is a challenge for them too!

The infrared light acupuncture stuff is pretty cool. Indy (who seems very similar to Ris in some ways), can't tolerate needles. We tried a few times, but each time she started freaking out more, because I'm sure that they hurt her because of her muscle condition. I ultimately bought a light to work on Indy at home (it was cheaper in the long run) -- the light can also be used to work on tense muscles anywhere, so I use it too







.


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## DancingCavy

Well Ris was doing okay over the weekend, or so I thought. I kept her well-rested and off the stairs. Monday we took the stairs a few times (especially after the elevator made wierd noises and motions). I gave her some light exercise on Monday which included running through her tunnel inside. Yesterday we used the stairs all day though I did carry her up them once or twice when she was slow. After work, I took her outside to play tuggie for about 15 minutes trying to keep it light. Today she was slow up the stairs on lunch so I carried her up them.

Her back hasn't been spasming when I touch it when she's not paying attention, so I took that as a good sign. But she's still slow coming up the stairs so it must still be bothering her. I have been doing the 5-minute massage that the doctor showed me how to do every day with Ris and I'm not sure it's helping.

I called the vet on Monday and left a message for her to get back to me about the G/C and cetyl m but haven't heard back from her yet. I'll call again tomorrow if I still have no answers tonite. But I think I'm going to just go ahead and order the cetyl m anyway. I looked into it a bit more the other day and figure 'what the heck.' Is the link you provided, Lisa, the place where you usually order it from? I don't want to buy such a large bottle as the 140+ pills I can get locally.

I still need to find out about the G/C though. I know vet's know the mg for both cuz people used to call up and ask for them all the time when I worked at the vet hospital.

*Sigh* I just wish I could make Risi feel better. I'd like to let her play with the pups at class tonite if there's time. But with her back still out of whack and knowing she's been really testy lately (likely due to her back pain) it looks like it'll be a no.


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## LisaT

The CMO in that link is the exact product I get, from that same link. It can go pretty fast -- when Indy is real bad (she's 35 pounds), I'll give 2 in the a.m. and two in the p.m. for many days, maybe a week, and then drop to two or three in the a.m. only. I give it away from food....

With Indy, I now give her one cosequin DS in the morning and one GF 600 (glycofex) in the evening....sometimes a half of a GF 600.

You can do some acupupressure along the spine -- just feel either along the center depressions, or along the side of the spinal cord -- she'lll let you know where the sore spots are probably. Either acupressure, or something like T-touch or a healing touch, which is very gentle movement, or just hand placement while you concentrate on relaxing the area and dissipating congestion. That probably makes no sense though....


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## DancingCavy

I think I'm going to call the vet on Monday and see if they can set up some Cosequin for Ris. Sure can't hurt.

I'll probably order the CMO as well and see how that goes.

She hasn't been too bad lately. A bit slow on the stairs but still bouncy and nutty. Lack of exercise doesn't bode well for Ris or I.







She gets a lil edgy. Won't help the weather is going to be COLD the next couple days either. 

Thanks again for all your help, Lisa. I REALLY appreciate it!


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## LisaT

I sure hope that you can get this figured out. With such a young active dog, she'll drive you both completely batty without enough exercise!!

Let me know what you do and whether it works or not -- fingers crossed!


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## DancingCavy

Yeah, it's really tough not being able to play fetch with her. Especially with it being so dark at night. It's been less dark lately but a rousing game of fetch is much better for tiring her out than a walk around the block. She really loves it too. Just so sad to watch her afterwards.

I know Cosequin takes about a month or so before you see any actual results which is fine. At least it's something that should help her out in the long run. I probably won't have the CMO til the last week of January anyway.

At least she's not spasming when I touch her back anymore. That has to say something.


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## LisaT

Before my girl had hip surgery (about 9 1/2 years ago), I started her on Cosequin and noticed a difference by the third day. Hope it works quick for Ris!


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## DancingCavy

Well moron was running up the stairs this morning as well as through the snow (I took her to play in it even though it was only 3 degrees outside). It's nice to see her acting like her normal, athletic self. But I still don't want to take chances and will be starting her on the supplements anyway. Prevention is the best medicine.









She definately keeps me on my toes.


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: Murphy-ElperroguapoWell moron was.....


Had to laugh out loud at that one -- they sure don't know any better, do they?!


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## DancingCavy

Most of her nicknames are deragatory. Moron. Maniac. Pest. Just in my nature, I guess. 

As long as she seems to be happy, I can't complain.


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## LisaT

LOL, poor thing!!!

Of course I shouldn't talk, Max's middle name is g** d**** it* ....but don't tell anyone!


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## DancingCavy

Went and picked up a joint supplement from the vet last night. They don't have Cosequin. They have Re-Flex 4 instead. I don't have the bottle with me (at work) but it has Glucosamine, MSM, Creatine, Omega 3s and a few other things in it. I plan on starting her on it tonite.

I also got the CMO in the mail the other day but am going to hold off on starting it right away. I want to do one thing at a time. Plus she's been acting like her goofy self again. Going to try and give her a bit more hard exercise this weekend if I can and see how her back holds up.


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## LisaT

I wouldn't depend on her activity to tell you whether she needs it or not. Dogs are great at hiding pain, and you want to protect her joints for the future, particularly if she is going to be an agility dog.


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## DancingCavy

Oh I know. Especially since she hasn't done any solid running in the last couple weeks. Hence why we're starting the Gluco supplement tonite. Just knowing that she has some food sensitivities, I want to make sure that if she DOES have an 'issue,' I can easily identify the culprit. Definately not trying to slack off or do any disservice to my pupper.









Plus I'm not 100% sure how much of the CMO to give her. . .and never got a response from the vet.


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## LisaT

Oh, I missed the part that you were definitely starting -- sorry, my bad!!!! 

Smart about starting with each individual product to watch for reactions. 

As for the CMO, for my 35-pounder, I usually give 25-30% of a human dose of anything as a starting point. However, with the CMO, I have always doubled that for the first week. And when she has a bad flare-up (elevated liver enzymes due to immune system overactivity), I start with 4 a day (in divided doses). In fact, that's what I have Indy on now. I will drop to 2 a day (on in the a.m and one in the p.m. ) after a week or probably two. I may actually have to keep her on a maintenance dose now, though I never had to do that when she was younger.


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## DancingCavy

That's okay.









I think I'm going to stop saying "She's doing better" cuz everytime I do, I notice that she's hurting again. *Sigh* Her back was spasming again when I touched it. Poor dog.

If I don't have any problems with the glucosamine supplement after a week or so, I'll probably start her on the CMO. I think the human dosage is two pills three times a day or something crazy like that. I may just start her on 2 a day and then wean her down to 1 a day or something. I like to give her meds with food and she only eats once a day so not sure exactly how I'll manage that.







But I've got a little while to figure it out. 

Thanks again for all your help. I really appreciate it.


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## LisaT

I hope the help actually helps!

Sounds like you jinxed it with saying "she's doing better" -- stop that, and then she will be perfect. (okay, so I can hope







)

Because you may not have to give the CMO on an ongoing basis, I think I would stick with two a day for a bottle's worth. Even if you give both in the a.m. I get up, give the dogs some pills, then get ready for work, and feed them before I leave. That gives abot 45 minutes or so between the pills and the breakfast. Maybe something like that would work?


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## DancingCavy

Ris eats at night. But I can certainly give everything at once. Just don't wanna overdo it if I should spread out the CMO and do one in the morning and one in the evening.


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## LisaT

The CMO is best given away from food. And I'm sure that divided doses are better too. 

If you give it once a day, I would give it in the a.m. when she doesn't have a meal. If you want to divide the doses, one in the a.m., and one before bed?


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## DancingCavy

Okay, I was confused cuz it said on the bottle to give with food (course that's for people). I can certainly dose it in the morning and before bed. Not sure if she'll be good enough to eat it straight but if I have to hide it in something, that won't be a problem either.









I really really hope it wasn't the gluco supplement that caused her loose poop today.





















Will keep an eye on her for the next couple days and see what happens. I know it has Brewer's yeast in it which has been a suspected GI irritant. But fish sometimes bothers her too and she ate Tilapia last night. *Sigh* Can't ever be easy, can it?


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## LisaT

I always dip the pills in yogurt, but i know each dog has their own preference.

The full instructions for CMO should be away from food, avoid sugar and caffiene, and best taken with a digestive enzyme containing lipase to digest fats. Odd that yours says with food -- she may have some beefy smelly burps with it though!

the never ending cause of the loose poop is never easy!!


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## DancingCavy

The bottle says "Take 2 capsules up to 3 times daily with meals, or as directed by your qualified health consultant. Avoid ingestion of alcohol and refined foods during period of consumption."

Yogurt's off the list too. Last time she had some, it resulted in yucky poops.

So far I know too much peanut butter and yogurt will cause runny poos. Salmon leads to SIBO and Brewer's Yeast is on the possible SIBO cause list too. I just haven't narrowed it down. That is one advantage to raw-feeding at least. Ease of elimination!


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: Murphy-Elperroguapo..... Salmon leads to SIBO.....


Interesing -- I've just been pondering the idea that it's the salmon that Max is having anal gland problems with. Anyone have any idea about the SIBO connection?

Can or do you feed any omega-3's????


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## DancingCavy

I found out the hard way that Ris is sensitive to salmon. Took me forever to figure it out. Poor dog who was taking her Tylan powder diligently and STILL being fed the irritant! I eventually narrowed it down to the Zuke's Mini Naturals but thought it was the brewer's yeast since the Zuke's and Natural Balance rolls shared that ingredient in common (and both seemed to bother her system). I stopped giving them and Ris was better--even without the Tylan. Until our local stores stopped carrying canned jack mackeral and I got Risa some canned salmon to try. . . Nasty gross SIBO poop. It took her a good 5 days or so for her poop to get back to normal. Luckily I didn't have to start her back on the Tylan. So no more salmon ANYTHING for Risa. And she is still a bit sensitive to other fishes (like the tilapia which I'm going to have to stop giving).

I do feed omega 3s. Though it's becoming a bit more difficult to do so. She can eat canned sardines with no problem and I've increased the amount of eggs in her diet. Occasionally, she gets grass-fed ground buffalo. Her new supplement also contains small amounts of O3s.


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## LisaT

That's really interesting to me. I think Max may be in the same situation. 

So Ris could handle the jack mackeral, but not the salmon? I just bought some j.m., but I haven't tried it.

I may have to switch to giving 0-3 supplements instead of the food. Previously he couldn't tolerate those, but has been better.


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## DancingCavy

Yep. No problems with jack mack or sardines. Just salmon. It was like a lightbulb went off the day after I gave it to her. She loves salmon. . .it just doesn't like her at all!! 

I tried to supplement Ris' diet with some more O3s because she was getting a bit flaky (yucky winter). Got some salmon oil capsules (there is salmon oil in the Nature's Variety medallions and she has no problems with them so I figured we'd be okay). Day after that she has some mushy SIBO-like poop again. So I nixed those. I could probably use other fish body oils instead but I don't feel like risking it. I'll just add more eggs and increase the number of cans of sardines I give her.


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## LisaT

Thanks Jamie, I think that info will probably cross over to Max too. I put him on Tylan for the first time, and will take it from there.


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## DancingCavy

Good luck!!


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## LisaT

Thanks!


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## DancingCavy

Again, I thought she was doing better until I noticed her back was twitchy this week. *Sigh* I've been giving her the Re-Flex 4 for 3 weeks now (still on loading dose) and started the CMO last Sunday. 

I guess it's about time I call her vet again and see if she got her infared accupuncture thing back so we can try that on Ris. I wish I knew what was going on. . .


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## LisaT

Do you have a link to the Re-Flex?

How much of the CMO are you giving?


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## DancingCavy

The company's website is here: http://genesisvets.com/ but they don't list the Re-Flex 4 on the site. Nor have I found it listed anywhere else online. However, it contains the following:

Glucosamine HCL 900mg
Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) 800mg
Creatine Monohydrate 500mg
Perna Canaliculus (Green Lipped Mussel) 300mg
Citrus Bioflavonoids 200mg
Calcium Phosphate 60mg
Vitamin C (Calcuium Ascorbate) 50mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid 20mg
EPA 18mg
DHA 12 mg
Manganese 10mg
Grape Seed Extract 5mg
Zinc Gluconate 2mg
Selenium 2mcg
Vitamine E acetate 50 I.U.

I've been giving two capsules of CMO daily. Except on days we have classes because we get home late and I can't give it on an empty stomach. So far, she's had it twice daily with the exception of Monday when she only had one dose. And a couple doses may not have been entirely complete because a certain fuzzball decided it would be fun to break them open on the carpet. . . That's not happening anymore though.


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## LisaT

I hate it when company doesn't list the ingredients.

So the Re-Flex doesn't contain the chondroitin, but it has MSM, and perhaps more important perna mussel, and other cofactors. I like that it contains the alpha lipoic acid -- great for the nervous system and twitchy muscles. The dose of the CMO is good too. 

She may just need some muscle release if things are changing because of the supplements?

You can try going down the spine, and hold gentle pressure on each vertebrae for about 20 seconds and see if you can get some release. You can either depress on each spinal indentation, or gentle hold together from the sides, and see what happens. 

Hope your vet gets the laser acupuncture thingee.....


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## DancingCavy

I tried going down her spine with some pressure and hit a sore spot. Got some twinging and a look like 'Hey! That hurt!' 

Last time we were in, our doctor was loaning out the infared accupuncture thing and she told me to call back in about 3 weeks. It's been longer than that now.







So I'll have to find out if it's in the office and then schedule a time to bring Ris in. I just wish I could ask Ris how her back feels. Most of the time she doesn't seem bothered by it. Which makes me happy. But every once in a while it twinges and then I wonder if it's still an ongoing issue.

She's gonna get to be a pro about going to the vet at this rate!


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## LisaT

you might try some gentle stretching around that sore spot. or gentle manipulation of the spine around there. You might get pretty good at figuring out what is wrong with a bit of team work


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## DancingCavy

*Sigh*

I tried finding out if our doctor has her infared accupuncture machine in. Haven't heard back from them. Doesn't matter. I'm scheduling an appointment for Risa this week.

I've been trying to take it easy with her. Which means she hasn't been out to run and really enjoy herself lately.







She still enjoys blasting off like a rocket and running down the hallway, but that's been about it. Mostly just walks, obedience class, or work (rally, agility, ob) in the house. I took her out for an hour long walk today on a nature trail (dirt and small stones). Touched her back when she got in the car and it twinged pretty badly.







So I need to get her back in. Things still are off and apparently the supplements aren't working (no, I don't plan on stopping them).

I did rub the Happy Massager down her back when we got home and rubbed her down with my hands as well. She seemed to enjoy the Happy Massager but I don't know that it helped any.

Can't win.


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## LisaT

I'm sorry. It's so tough when they are in pain.

Is it just that one spot that is twinging, or up and down her spine?


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## DancingCavy

It's a specific area of her back (marked in red).








Since I know what part is affected, I can do the 'twinge test' to see if her back is bothering her. I've also noticed she's more reluctant to hup into the car when her back is sore. And her left hind foot toes in a bit. Not that it stops her from running full tilt and enjoying herself. She doesn't know how to take it easy.

It gets frustrating, thinking she's doing better and then realizing nothing has changed. Poor mutt.

Couldn't get her in for an appointment this week. . .so we're scheduled for Monday at 5:30.


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## LisaT

I know that area well. Indy hurts pretty bad back there too. I think that Indy and Ris have quite a bit in common, though she typically "toes out" on one of her paws in the back.

Just curious -- does she ever walk stiff-kneed?

I'm gonna try and see if I remember some kind of stretch or something that might help, and that could be explained with words!!


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## DancingCavy

No, her gait's still pretty normal. In fact the average person wouldn't have any idea that she's in pain. She's still running around, bouncing, jumping and spinning like an idiot. Our trainer said that's the herding breed part of her--doesn't know how to take it easy.







So other than being reluctant to hup into the car, slowly climbing onto the couch, being slow up stairs, and having back twinges. . .she's still acting like herself.

I hope she's relaxed enough at the vet's this time for her to get a good adjustment.


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## LisaT

Sorry I disappeared on you like that -- had family stuff with the folks to take care of last week, and didn't get online at all.

I guess today she has an appointment?

Let me see if I can try to explain at least one of the releases for that area -- probably too late to get to it before the appointment though.

She has to be relatively relaxed, and laying on her side.

You want one had below the painful area (say right at the base of the tail), and the other above the painful area along the spine (probably right at that divet point). Gentle pressure -- some say only the amount of pressure that a nickel would exert, but that can be tough. Sometimes you might start out a bit firmer, and then lighten up.

Gently move both hands towards each other, so that you are moving the skin together. This tells the body to start releasing some of the tension it is holding, because you are holding it for her. Hold everything for at least a count of 20. Typically longer is better, but they often start getting freaked. You might notice things like ear or eye flicks, funny feelings under your hands, toe movements, etc. If she relaxes, or takes a deep breath, tell her what a good girl she is and that she is releasing the tension and the pain.

After you feel like that has played out and you don't see any more movement, then keep one hand still, and move the other one away, so you are stretching one end of that spinal area. Again, hold very gently, and count. Then go back to both hands gently together and reverse this, so that you hold the other hand still while gently stretching the other one away. Don't over stretch. Hold everything for at least a count of 20, and look for signs of release, and pay attention to see what you feel under your hands. You have to be in a patient mood to do this.

Then move both hands away from each other, slowly and gently, so that it stretches in both directions. This is typically the last movement. You can do other things, like moving one hand to the left side of the body while the other moves to the right, to help get out any twist.

I don't know if that made any sense, or if it would even help, but it would be my starting point.

Let me know how the appointment goes.


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## DancingCavy

I may have to try that! I would try right now but 1) I'm at work 2) even though Ris is with me, I doubt she's relaxed!

I will probably give it a try over the weekend. That way it should be long enough after her appointment I won't screw anything up!







I'll hop online after her visit and report tonite.


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## DancingCavy

We're back.

Ris was pretty good overall. She wasn't exactly thrilled with the doctor manipulating her but I had a ton of treats that I just kept shoving in front of her face.







So I didn't get to watch a lot of what the doc was doing.

The vet was able to do a chiropractic adjustment and she did have her infared acupuncture machine so she tried that on Risa as well. During the acupuncture, she was able to adjust a muscle so I'm hoping maybe that helps straighten things out.

Ris will be on full rest (no exercise, no stairs, no hopping up into the bed) for the remainder of today and tomorrow (and she'll be kenneled while I'm at work). I will probably continue to lift her into bed and take the elevator with her for the rest of the week just to play it safe. We have class on Wednesday and I'll try and keep her un-bouncy for that. Thursday and Friday will have limited exercise as well. Hopefully, this will do the trick.

And, rumor has it, the 'traveling' chiro vet might be coming in shortly. Apparently he's not a human chiro, but an equine one! I hope that, if he does come in soon, we get a chance to grab an appointment with him. Even if I have to use some of my PTO at work.


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## LisaT

*If* you can get her to walk reasonably (without being too wired), that movement would be good for her. Any type of light stretching would be good too.

I sure do hope that the combo of what was done today gets at the problem and you can start making some progress. It's so tough when nothing seems to help. Keeping fingers crossed that working that muscle out will show results.

I think it's cool that you can take Ris to work. I used to take Indy, but the adminstration at work changed and became a bit hostile towards bringing dogs in. I miss being able to do that......at least Indy has Max around now so that she is not alone.

Equine chiros I think are also a different "breed". I think some of them are extremely good.

Keeping paws crossed that you'll see improvement on Tuesday!


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## DancingCavy

Perhaps I will take her for a brief walk around the courtyard after work then. Our usual path takes us on sidewalk and, even if I encourage her to walk on the grass, she prefers the hard concrete.

I think the main reason Ris got to come in to work was because she had an appointment right after. But the office is pretty dog friendly. My coworker who fosters dogs has brought some of his fosters and his dog in on occasion. And my boss brought his dog in once too. I'd love to bring Ris in more often since I think it was a good experience for the scaredy dog yesterday. But I don't want to overdo it or abuse the privilege.

I'm not entirely sure how she's feeling today. Her back didn't spasm when I touched it this morning, which is a good sign. But she still seems to be a bit tentative hopping up on the couch.

No matter what, I do hope we can get in to see the equine chiro. I have heard really good things about him and I'd love to have him work on Ris. Though, with the way she's leary of men, it'll be a bit more difficult for him to work on her.


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## LisaT

The walking keeps things moving and will help maintain the adjustment. The sporadic jumping, sprinting, etc., is a completely different story!!!

Any time you feel in the mood, you can try that muscle release mentioned above. Indy does better if I work on her *after* an adjustment, which is opposite than one would think.

Good to hear about the no spasm this morning. I hope it's not just temporary!


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## DancingCavy

She was sooooooo wired yesterday. I could just see the energy bubbling over. . .and she spent some time running around the living room and pouncing on her toys. Not much I could do to stop her. I feel bad, though. She really NEEDS to get out and burn off some major energy. I've had to force her to take it easy too long. Not that she ever really did take it easy. . .since she doesn't know how.









Tonite should be a decent mental workout at least which should take a little bit of the edge off. But seeing her ready to bounce off the walls half makes me wanna just say 'the **** with it' and let her go for a couple sprints.


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: Murphy-Elperroguapo.....Our usual path takes us on sidewalk and, even if I encourage her to walk on the grass, she prefers the hard concrete......


If she's anything like Indy, the grass isn't "clean enough" for her?

Hope she can find an outlet to blow off some of that energy. It's even tougher if she is starting to feel better!


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## DancingCavy

Ha ha. Quite likely. The grassy area just off our apartment's property is FAR from clean. Like a dog poo minefield. It's disgusting.


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## DancingCavy

Okay, it's been about a week. I hope I'm not jinxing things, but she seems to be much better.

She was still a bit twingy on Wednesday. We went to class and when we got back I touched her back as I took off her leash. Just a slight muscle spasm. And then she took off like a wild woman and did zoomies around the livingroom. I didn't really want her running around full tilt so soon after her adjustment, but there was no stopping her. Plus, she really needed to get that burst of energy out of her system. She was really wound up all week.

I've done some back touching all week and haven't noticed any twitches recently. We've been playing tuggie in the livingroom more frequently to keep her from getting quite as hyper. Plus with all this restricted activity, she's put on a little bit of weight. Saturday we had agility class (no high-impact activity though) and we played tug for 15 minutes outside beforehand. Sunday was beautiful so we took an hour long walk and later in the day she got to try out her Buja board (wobble board for agility). 

So, fingers crossed, she seems to be feeling much better. I'm not 100% sure her back isn't bothering her a little, but it's less obvious. I didn't have time to try that thing you posted, Lisa, though I intend to when I finally get a chance.


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## LisaT

If the time is ever right and you do try that stretch/release, let me know how it goes.

Hopefully the supplements are helping. Something that helped Indy alot, a second to the cetyl myristoleate, is alpha lipoic acid. It seems to really help with nerve pain -- just to keep in the back of your mind.

Keeping my fingers crossed for continued improvement!


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## Rika_Tula

Hi! I am coming into this thread late but I see after skimming through the posts that you are currently still having problems. I have some additional thoughts for you.

Does your Chiropractor have a massage therapist at their clinic? If so, see if she or he will take a look at Risa. Or, search out a licensed massage therapist that specializes in canines in your area. Also, see if they know any myofascial techniques.

Myofascial work addresses fascia; the cellophane-like material that wraps all muscle fibers, bone, and organs. If there is a major issue with the fascia, all the adjustments in the world will not hold. It’s like the body’s matrix, it holds everything together. Fascia at its best should look and feel fluid but due to injury or postural imbalances, it can get stuck and restrict movement & cause pain. Scar tissue build-up is fascia gone wrong, or the body’s attempt to protect injured area. If you look at a piece of chicken before you cook it, you will see a lot of fascia.

A couple things come to mind from your description and photo. I am wondering if Risa's hamstrings are tight. Tight hamstrings can cause issues above and below the muscle group; all the way to the bottom of the foot and as far up as mid/thoracic spine.

Other muscles that may come into play with the reaction you are getting, when you touch that area, are the: glutes (butt muscles), psoas (deep muscle running along direction of spine, between abdomen and pelvis) and lat dorsi (attaching at mid spine and running toward shoulders).

You can check the hamstrings safely yourself (run from glutes to behind knee). Best to check them when they are not flexed...laying down position versus standing. If they are tight, you can soften and release the muscle tissue yourself with gentle kneading techniques.

A tight muscle can feel like: a guitar string (thin, round, and taught but has give), a leather strap (flat and hard), uncooked or cooked spaghetti/pasta (long or short pieces), and hardening clay or play-doh, etc.

If you find a spasm which may feel like cooked pasta, instead of kneading, just press into the area with your thumb or forefinger until it releases (vision of melting butter). Practice on yourself, or loved-one for feedback if you’re unsure of the pressure to use and watch for reactions from Risa (relaxation response to discomfort to pain...you know your dog). Direct pressure which is considered deep tissue/neuromuscular work can elicit a response of discomfort if the area is tender which is okay but to cause pain would be counterproductive to what is attempting to be accomplished - muscle release.

Even though the majority of body therapies can work very well on their own as stand alone treatments, I have found that a combination of different approaches work best.

I encourage you to do your own research on what I’ve posted here, and feel free to go over my thoughts with your Chiropractor or Vet.









Hope Risa continues to feel better and gets some permanent relief with whatever works for her!


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## DancingCavy

Thanks for the input, Robin. Unfortunately, I doubt there are any licensed massage therapists anywhere near here. Though Billings is the largest city in the state, it is still pretty lacking in many areas. I actually feel pretty lucky to have found a vet that does chiropractic stuff and some holistic.

I did check out Ris' hammies last night and they didn't feel tight. Never had thought to check them, though. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.







Your information was enlightening.


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## Rika_Tula

You're most welcome! I've PM'd you with some resources.


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## LisaT

Good catch Robin -- my Indy has that back pain, and her hamstrings, and around the knees, are *always* tight. I think it's a chicken and the egg thing.


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## Rika_Tula

LisaT: you should be able to release the hamstrings dramatically with some sportstherapy techniques by getting at the attachment points and then follow up with compression. It's tough with something that has been an issue for a while, muscle resisting release, especially with regard to fascia.

An easy technique that works great for superficial fascia release is skinrolling - applied along the spine and over the hind end completely, all the way to the knees. When an area is really stuck it becomes difficult to get your fingers in there to pick the skin up but it can be done with persistence. You'll be amazed at the difference.

I'd be happy to post a pic, if you'd like.


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## DancingCavy

Lisa, I finally tried that release. Not sure it really worked. Partly due to Ris being a bit uncooperative. She will lay on her side flat, but not while I'm right there with her. Then she tries to roll over onto her back or at the very least sticks her top leg into the air. I still tried it though and may try again later, hopefully with better results.


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## DancingCavy

I have a question about the release exercise, Lisa. How often should I do it?

I did it twice on Saturday (she was more cooperative the second time), once Sunday, and again today. The last two times I did it, I noticed a lot of muscle spasming beneath my hands.

Just don't wanna overdo it.


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## DancingCavy

Well her back is still bugging her. Poor Mutt. Everytime I do the release exercise, her back spasms beneath my hands. And sometimes she pushes off me with her top leg. . .I'm sure it must feel odd to her.

I sent an email to one of the people from the links Myrika_Betula gave me (THANKS!). She's local so I hope maybe she can be of some assistance. 

I hate trying to restrict Ris' activity or watch her sore later. She's such an active dog.


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: Myrika_BetulaLisaT: you should be able to release the hamstrings dramatically with some sportstherapy techniques by getting at the attachment points and then follow up with compression. It's tough with something that has been an issue for a while, muscle resisting release, especially with regard to fascia.
> 
> An easy technique that works great for superficial fascia release is skinrolling - applied along the spine and over the hind end completely, all the way to the knees. When an area is really stuck it becomes difficult to get your fingers in there to pick the skin up but it can be done with persistence. You'll be amazed at the difference.
> 
> I'd be happy to post a pic, if you'd like.


I would love to see a picture. I may have an idea, but I'm not sure.

I know that she finds Bowen therapy extremely painful, and doesn't seem to get that much relief from it. Gentle myofascial, and even light therapy and magnetic therapy work well on her.


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## LisaT

Jamie, 

I'm sorry, I've been off the board for awhile.

That's pretty intense the reaction that you are getting from Risa. Those spasms are releases. When they first start feeling them, they kinda freak and want them to stop. Indy quickly learned what , "breath" and "release" mean -- with Max it took forever, and he's still not so patient when I work on him. He's not as trusting in the process as Indy.

You can try that compression and release stuff all along her spine. Hopefully this person that you emailed might be able to help, and also might be able to teach you some things that you can do at home. I hope you can get an appt soon.

For Indy, she does require constant maintenance, but she also has a plate with 7 screws in her pelvis, and she has a neurological disease process. So I do bodywork at home, and keep up with the chiro. I have found that the two things that really help her are the cetyl myristoleate and also some alpha lipoic acid.


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## DancingCavy

Not a problem. Life is more important than the Internet anyway.









Poor Indy. But she's very lucky to have you so willing to go the extra mile to help her out.









Ris isn't to the point where she wants me to do the releases but she's fairly compliant. She's the type that will just put up with it, even if she doesn't like it. The worst she does is squirm.







Hopefully I can get her to relax more. I sometimes wonder if she EVER calms down (curse of the reactive dog living in an apartment). I tried doing just some slow petting and massages over the weekend and all she wanted to do was get up and move or play with a toy. Pest. Yesterday evening I worked with her on being calm. I recently read that a dog laying on its side is more calm and, having just taught her to play dead a couple weeks ago, I started there. First I click/treated her for stopping her tail wags. Then I clicked her for longer 'no movement' on her side. Finally I waited until her eyelids got heavy and click/treated her. Hopefully, by continuing to do this, she'll learn to relax and I can have an easier time with the release exercises too!

Thanks again for all your help.


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## Rika_Tula

*LisaT*: Great! ...do you want me to post it here, PM it, or post it in a new thread?



> Originally Posted By: Murphy-ElperroguapoI sent an email to one of the people from the links Myrika_Betula gave me (THANKS!). She's local so I hope maybe she can be of some assistance.


I'll keep my fingers and toes, and 12 paws crossed for you and Risa!


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## LisaT

Jamie, I never restricted Indy's activity much, but found that I could work on her much easier after she had exercised. I hope you can find some way to provide for continued improvement.

Robin, we could start a new thread?


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## DancingCavy

I've stopped restricting Ris because I think it just makes both of us miserable.







Most of the time I do the releases after a walk or other exercise.

Yesterday I did it at lunchtime because I knew we'd be at class in the evening and didn't think I'd have time to later. But then Ris got an opportunity to RUN full out for about a half hour or so afterwards. She was sooooooooo happy.



































And when I got her into the car, I touched her back and no spasm! Yay! I did the release again when we got home (since she had just had the chance to loosen those muscles) and she was much less twitchy during it than usual. And a bit more relaxed about having it done. So maybe there's hope.


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## DancingCavy

I finally got an appointment for Risa with Sid the animal chiropractor. Hooray!!! 

The animal hospital left me a message on my answering machine and I called back right away because I know appointments are tough to come by when he finally decides to come in. As is, I got the earliest appointment still left: 10:50 (he's only coming in 8-12). So Risa will be going in to see him on April 11th. I hope she is willing to let him put his hands on her. . .especially since the appointment is only 10 minutes long!!


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## DancingCavy

Risa got to go to the animal chiropractor today (and spend the whole workday with me too)!! YAY! I was a bit worried about how she'd be since she's still pretty leary around men. But she did very well. Was a bit unnerved about him having his hands on her but not bad at all.

He did some back adjustments and popped something in the right side of her neck which he thinks was causing the tightness and misalignment in her back. He thinks she'll be okay now. I really hope so!! I'm so happy we finally got in to see him.


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## Rika_Tula

That's awesome! ...keep us posted!!









Did you ever get a response from the massage contacts?


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## DancingCavy

Nope. Never did hear back from them.







Eh well.


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## LisaT

Jamie, so how is Ris doing now?

I'm so glad that the release thingee seemed to help a bit. How is she after her adjustment yesterday?


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## DancingCavy

I haven't noticed any back twitchies since her adjustment. And she doesn't seem to be holding back at all. We'll be going outside to do some training and playing shortly so I assume I'll be able to judge a bit better then. 

She did get tired on her walk yesterday but I have a feeling that has more to do with her SIBO returning than her back.


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## DancingCavy

We're back from our trip outside. Ris got a chance to run full-throttle after her frisbee.







Happy dog!!

Once we got back inside I did the release on her back since her muscles were warmed up. She did kick me with her hind leg a bit during it but I felt NO MUSCLE SPASMS as I did it! Hooray!! _*Happy Dance*_ I really hope this fixes things for good.


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## LisaT

Wow, it sure has taken a long time to get her to this point --







Congratulations









I suspect that you may have to do a bit of maintenance here and there to keep her where she is at, so she doesn't backslide.

Happy running Ris!!


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## DancingCavy

Yeah, I figured I would probably keep up on the back release and even more chiro visits if necessary. But I'm so happy she finally seems to be feeling better.









Thanks again for all your help.


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## Rika_Tula

It's been a few days now, everything still going well?


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## DancingCavy

Everything still seems to be in order. She felt a bit tight in the lower back last night so I did a bit of massaging and the muscle release exercise. But no muscle spasms.


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## Rika_Tula

Okay, now we're approaching a month...is she maintaining? Has she had any more Chiropractic adjustments?


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## LisaT

She must be doing reasonably well, she hasn't been back to the health board?!?!????


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## DancingCavy

LOL.

Well I've been a bit more preoccupied with Ris' gastrointestinal health as of late. She ended up sick with SIBO again and it didn't seem to be responding to treatments. I think we're FINALLY over that hump now and on our way back to 'normal.'

Her back was twitchy once or twice that I can remember over the last 2 months or so. But it's hard to judge how she feels when you _know_ she already doesn't feel well due to her GI upset.

As far as I can tell, though, she is feeling alright.


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## LisaT

Hope that she is still feeling alright and that the SIBO is under control. I found that with Indy, I think her back pain and digestive issues often seem correlated somehow.


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## DancingCavy

We're still dealing with the SIBO crap. Unfortunately. Can't seem to get it under complete control despite everything we've tried. She has at least gained back the weight she's lost and is fine other than still sloppy poop. I really have a feeling it's allergy-related due to the fact that it comes up every spring. We had a particularly wet spring and I know my allergies have been a bit worse than usual which could explain why she's having such a rough time getting back on track.

The chiropractic vet was in this week but, since my parents were visiting, we declined scheduling an appointment. I haven't noticed too many back issues with her lately anyway so I don't mind waiting. Though I think getting another adjustment wouldn't have done any harm.


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## LisaT

Have you ever tried giving some bioflavanoids for the allergies?

I use them to help me keep off of allergy shots. I also give them to the dogs. These are the ones I get - I open the capsules up and just give the powder to the dogs. 

http://tinyurl.com/5a4abq

I don't have to use much for the dogs. I started using them after Indy had a mast cell tumor removed, which are linked to histamine.

I think the adjustments, for dogs, are better done before they are exhibiting real obvious symptoms, since they are so good at hiding pain.


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## DancingCavy

Yeah, I would have liked to get her in anyway. But couldn't with my parents coming out plus money's a bit tight nowadays.









I may look into giving Ris some bioflavinoids next spring in anticipation of issues again. I am _HOPING_ that things are finally calming down with her GI tract.


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## LisaT

Hope her GI issues are calming down too.

Seems money is tight everywhere....unfortunately, a sign of the times.


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## DancingCavy

Yeah. I was okay until I got laid off last month.


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## LisaT

ouch, that sucks big time. I'm so sorry to hear that.

Hope things will work out. I know they usually do, but it never feels that way when you're in the middle of it


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