# "Guard" command?



## cassadee7

I saw on another thread where someone has a Guard command they give their dog, apparently to have the dog start barking at a perceived threat.

Is this a common command to teach? If your dog does this, how did you teach it and is it an advisable thing to teach a GSD who is mainly a pet and not doing SchH etc? I ask because I can see how it could be useful if one felt threatened on a walk, to have the dog start barking (as a deterrant). But I would not want my dog to actually bite/lunge at anyone.

What do you think? Is this command a good or bad idea?


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## ShenzisMom

Bad idea. You want a pet-so it should be treated like one. I know some people are going to disagree but I think that pets should be pets and sch. dogs should be sch. dogs-but sch. dogs can still be pets.
The other thing-is that I have never once heard of anyone with a sch dog giving the dog the commands off the field or training sessions elsewhere.
And, before I derail your topic, I'll start my own.


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## NotaBelgian

*Gaurd/Watch*

My dog and I are trained in 'personal protection'. This sounds very similar to what you are asking about. A brief description of what we do: at the command 'watch', Indigo will bark, snarl, lunge, snap-ALL on leash. At the command to stop 'out', he stops immediately and comes to a heel position. We do not do bite or chase work; tho I have no doubt that Indigo would do both if he was let off leash. I live alone and frequently walk at night, so I am fine if, when I am threatened, Indigo _would_ bite if I let him. 
You will need an experienced trainer to help you, as they act like the bad guy, My trainer is also very good at assessing the abilities of the dog. Not all are able to protect, some take to it well and some do it out of fear, which is a whole 'nother issue. I have seen personal protection offered by other trainers in different areas. Speaking for me and Indigo, it is our favourite part of training!


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## Cassidy's Mom

You can teach your dog to bark on command even if you don't expect it to actually protect you. If you want to use the "guard" command instead of something more benign like "speak", that would probably be enough of a deterrent for most people.


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## ShenzisMom

A dog trained in anything that shows aggression towards a human-including just putting on a show(barking, lunging, snarling) is no longer a pet. This animal is a PP dog and I hope you continue your training.


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## Jessiewessie99

Deathmetal said:


> A dog trained in anything that shows aggression towards a human-including just putting on a show(barking, lunging, snarling) is no longer a pet. This animal is a PP dog and I hope you continue your training.


I really don't think thats true. It can still be a pet/companion. Meaning for show you are talking about Sch. right?


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## Melgrj7

You can simply teach your dog to bark on command, but make the command gaurd or something along those lines. The dog doesn't need to know why you are teaching it to bark on command.


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## ShenzisMom

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I really don't think thats true. It can still be a pet/companion. Meaning for show you are talking about Sch. right?


If you read my posts properly you would see that I wrote two conflicting things.

'I think that pets should be pets and sch. dogs should be sch. dogs-but sch. dogs can still be pets.' and 'A dog A dog trained in anything that shows aggression towards a human-including just putting on a show(barking, lunging, snarling) is no longer a pet.'

What I meant was 'is no longer JUST a pet.

And I did not call sch. for show. I said 'putting on a show(barking, lunging, snarling)' I said barking, lunging and snarling were for show.

There are many MANY differences in Sch. training and PP work. I am not qualified to give you the difference so you'll have to read up.


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## JakodaCD OA

My opinion, for you cassadee, I don't think I would..Only because you have 5 kids, who have friends, you want to live with this dog, and I'm sure you want the dog to be friendly with your kids, and your kids friends..

I am definately all for obedience training on ANY dog. When you throw a bunch of kids into the equation, I wouldn't want a mean, aggressive, (even if its' for show) bone in it's body..(and I know you don't either)..

And sure you can teach a dog to bark, (it may backfire and you may have one that doesn't shut up! LOL),,but I'm not sure I would want to teach that either..

I think these dogs can be a deterrent just by being "them", and actually being 'silent'.
I have had workmen here before, who were unphased by my barking dog, yet were very very wary of my silent 'watching' gsd who wouldn't have hurt a bug\\\

Ok done rambling


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## liv

Kokoda's "speak" command is gib laut, and when I give it she barks like crazy, teeth everywhere, front feet coming off the ground, and we're working on getting deeper barks. I think it would be pretty intimidating - they don't need to know she's doing it to get her ball


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## Liesje

I would be careful with this. Yes, it's possible to train, but often the problem is that people encourage what is really a fearful reaction and the dog is acting overly defensive. If you *really* want to train the dog for protection, get with a legitimate trainer or club. The dog needs to learn how to show confidence and power while maintaining control. Pestering and threatening the dog into these reactions where there is no "win" for the dog will just cause some dangerous problems.

I am a 26 year old female and live in a not-so-nice neighborhood but I've never actually needed to alert my dog. What really freaks people out is _*obedience*_. They see a dog that shows a high level of obedience on the street and wonder what else can that dog do? Just popping my dog into a really formal heel when passing a suspicious person is all I've ever needed.


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## ShenzisMom

Liesje said:


> I would be careful with this. Yes, it's possible to train, but often the problem is that people encourage what is really a fearful reaction and the dog is acting overly defensive. If you *really* want to train the dog for protection, get with a legitimate trainer or club. The dog needs to learn how to show confidence and power while maintaining control. Pestering and threatening the dog into these reactions where there is no "win" for the dog will just cause some dangerous problems.
> 
> I am a 26 year old female and live in a not-so-nice neighborhood but I've never actually needed to alert my dog. What really freaks people out is _*obedience*_. They see a dog that shows a high level of obedience on the street and wonder what else can that dog do? Just popping my dog into a really formal heel when passing a suspicious person is all I've ever needed.


thank you for the best reply in this thread. If this forum had a 'thank you'button,I would have just hit it.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Melgrj7 said:


> The dog doesn't need to know why you are teaching it to bark on command.


I was thinking along these lines - barking that's just a behavior, like any other behavior, without any emotions behind it.


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## Chris Wild

Liesje said:


> What really freaks people out is _*obedience*_. They see a dog that shows a high level of obedience on the street and wonder what else can that dog do?


This has been my experience as well. People see a dog like a GSD performing that kind of obedience (and adding in those exotic sounding German commands seems to add to the impression) and it seems they automatically assume the dog is some form of police dog, protection dog, etc...


Teaching a bark command can be useful though, but you do have to think about all angles. 

First off, with a typical speak command, even if you use an intimidating sounding command like "sick 'em", what seems like a good idea rarely works as intended in reality. The problem with a speak command is that the way it is typically done makes for a dog that invariably turns to bark AT the owner because that's what he's been taught... owner has my ball/treat, I need to bark to get it. At best the dog may bark back and forth from owner to other person, wondering who has that ball, but either way it's really not the impression you want to give if you intend to use the dog to scare off a suspicious person.

A true alert bark can be taught IF the dog has the right temperament for it and IF the training is done correctly.  This doesn't require a full regimen of protection work, but does require some suspicion work and basic agitation work by a competent individual. While it can be handy, really think about if you need it and the potential disadvantages it can bring in certain situations... waking up suspicion in a dog who was previously social but now has been rewarded for the opposite and now you have to manage, potentially rewarding fearful reactions as Lies mentioned if not done properly with a properly temperamented dog, not to mention just finding someone to do it correctly especially when inexperienced yourself and not sure what to look for.


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## NotaBelgian

Kudos to Liesjie! That was exactly what I was trying to say about the training- there are a LOT of variables regarding any kind of training, protection work included. My trainer stresses that control and balance in protection. I will add that in my case, I would agree that living with protection-trained dog (who is also a superstar in obediance) is an additional responsibilty and one that I take very seriously.


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## Liesje

Nikon is a major barker (which I've embraced, lol) so besides teaching him to speak (which usually results in him barking at me like Chris is saying) and whisper, I taught him to do kind of a fake alert bark in front of me by tossing out a toy or something besides me for him to bark at. I actually trained this so I could work on calling the dog back to heel "Hier Fuss!" without having to actually do it in protection work the first time. Of course training things in obedience mode is a totally different frame of mind than protection, but I've taught a few things this way so the dog has somewhat of an understand of what I want (another example is I taught Nikon to run all size blinds just using a ball). However, when I command him to "alert" at a toy (or thinking a toy is there) the barking is different than his barking like in SchH when he is guarding. Hard to explain, but I definitely know the difference, maybe a suspicious person would not but like I said, I've never had to ask my dog to alert for real even with a sex offender across the street. The obedience is what scares people!! The barking/alerting might get you in trouble if you jump the gun. Obedience is always safe. I can also get my dog to act with a tad more suspicion based on my body language. I might whisper to him, "whooozzat?" and give some anxious cues and this tends to solicit a more wide-eyed look with the mouth closed and the ears up (as opposed to the happy, prancy obedience). But I would caution doing even that until it's clear that the dog has no issues as far as nerves and is not a young dog possibly going through a fear stage age.


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## Jessiewessie99

Or if you have a black GSD or a dark sable GSD barking or not can be a good deterent.


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## kidkhmer

Cassidy's Mom said:


> You can teach your dog to bark on command even if you don't expect it to actually protect you. If you want to use the "guard" command instead of something more benign like "speak", that would probably be enough of a deterrent for most people.


What CM said!

It might have been me the OP was referring to.

I recently taught my dog to "guard" ( i.e ; speak / bark ) on command but that is all. I am not trying to get her to posture or lunge or what have you. I have no idea how to do that nor would I want to. However my general surroundings are such that I want a dog that sounds off when I tell her to. Simple as that. 

Maybe it would be more acceptable if I said GIGGLE ! instead of GUARD. However I also understand this excellent advice from Chris ; _"waking up suspicion in a dog who was previously social but now has been rewarded for the opposite and now you have to manage, potentially rewarding fearful reactions as Lies mentioned if not done properly with a properly temperamented dog, not to mention just finding someone to do it correctly especially when inexperienced yourself and not sure what to look for. _"

And yes...Liesje nailed it too. People see the obedient nature of my dog and that generally makes them take extra notice. I mean... a GSD walking in sync at your side with ears on high alert and looking left and right is enough to make most people stop in their tracks HE HE HE HE


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## selzer

I do not teach a GUARD command. But when I leave my car, and I have a dog in my car, I put on my command voice and say GUARD.

The dogs do not have a clue what I want. 

People stop and look. It is simply a deterrent. If anyone goes near my car, my dogs do bark. Now people THINK they are trained to guard my car and are not just barking their heads off. 

But as for obedience being the best. My Babsy used to be a 58 pound stick of dynamite, but always VERY obedient. Contractors come to my house, Babs and I meet them at the door. We go to whatever needs to be done, and I put Babs on a sit stay. Every muscle is tuned and ready and alert on the contractor, but she is absolutely not moving. 

Did I mention that Babs does not like contractors. 

I thought it must be the tools, but my brother who she does not know, came to fix my lawnmower with tools and Babsy was fine with him. She KNOWS who is family, and who is a contractor. 

I think that they do think twice when they see a trained dog.

I haven't trained any in German, but I bet that makes them even more nervous. Babs, Platz!


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## cassadee7

kidkhmer said:


> What CM said!
> 
> It might have been me the OP was referring to.
> 
> I recently taught my dog to "guard" ( i.e ; speak / bark ) on command but that is all. I am not trying to get her to posture or lunge or what have you.


Yes, it was you 
And Cassidy's mom is right on with what I mean by a guard command... just basically barking, but someone else hearing the word "Guard" might think it means more than that.

I appreciate all the insights here. I have no interest in having a PPD or doing any kind of anything that would bump up a dog's aggression or suspicion. Sure do not want lunging or snarling at all! And I hadn't thought of what Chris said... that the dog would probably turn and bark at the owner instead anyway!

Thank you for all the comments on this.


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## cassadee7

Chris Wild said:


> This doesn't require a full regimen of protection work, but does require some suspicion work and basic agitation work by a competent individual. While it can be handy, really think about if you need it and the potential disadvantages it can bring in certain situations... waking up suspicion in a dog who was previously social but now has been rewarded for the opposite and now you have to manage, potentially rewarding fearful reactions as Lies mentioned.


This is kind of what I was thinking about when I asked if it was a good or a bad idea. I wondered if teaching a dog to bark AT a person might be stirring up trouble. After all, I think they will bark anyway if they sense they need to.

And your point about the alert bark needing suspicion/agitation is enough to make me say, not for us. I don't want to agitate my *family dog* who, as Diane wisely said, needs to be friendly with kids.


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## elisabeth_00117

Liesje said:


> I am a 26 year old female and live in a not-so-nice neighborhood but I've never actually needed to alert my dog. *What really freaks people out is obedience. They see a dog that shows a high level of obedience on the street and wonder what else can that dog do?* Just popping my dog into a really formal heel when passing a suspicious person is all I've ever needed.


This.

I am 25, live in the middle of the city and often run/walk my dog after 10pm due to my schedule.

I get asked all the time if Stark is in training to be a police dog - from educated people none the less - because he is so obedient under MOST situations. 

I think an obedient dog and a confident owner are more of a deterrent than anything (and being a GSD doesn't hurt either).


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## AbbyK9

What bothers me a lot in this thread is that people assume that, just because a dog has specific training, it can no longer be a pet, or would no longer be safe around the family, people coming over, etc.

My Mal, Ronja, is a former police dog. She will agitate on command. She will go get a bite on command. She'll go into a building, find the bad guy, get a bite, out, and recall on command, no leash needed. She is also a fantastic pet. She loves to cuddle, loves to meet new people, doesn't mind people coming over to the house AT ALL, including strangers. I've never had any issues with her interacting with kids (especially since she loves to be hugged!), nor have I ever worried about leaving her loose if I had repair people coming to the house.

Being one does not rule out being the other, nor does it make the dog somehow dangerous if they've been trained to do that kind of work. Just my two cents.


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## cassadee7

Not sure if any of you have seen kidkhmer's video on how he trained his dog to the "Guard" command (his post about that is what got me thinking). His dog is barking but happy, wagging her tail the whole time while she barks and not at all threatening, hackling or lunging. So I guess in fact it is a glorified 'speak' where you have the dog bark more than once at the command (and even in the video, at the owner). Personal protection is a whole different ballgame... one that I have no interest in persuing.


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## Chris Wild

AbbyK9 said:


> What bothers me a lot in this thread is that people assume that, just because a dog has specific training, it can no longer be a pet, or would no longer be safe around the family, people coming over, etc.
> 
> My Mal, Ronja, is a former police dog. She will agitate on command. She will go get a bite on command. She'll go into a building, find the bad guy, get a bite, out, and recall on command, no leash needed. She is also a fantastic pet. She loves to cuddle, loves to meet new people, doesn't mind people coming over to the house AT ALL, including strangers. I've never had any issues with her interacting with kids (especially since she loves to be hugged!), nor have I ever worried about leaving her loose if I had repair people coming to the house.
> 
> Being one does not rule out being the other, nor does it make the dog somehow dangerous if they've been trained to do that kind of work. Just my two cents.



I don't really see people saying that. But Shawn has said that she doesn't want to really do protection training. That's her choice.

The problem with teaching a true alert bark via suspicion and agitation (not just a speak command) is that depending on the dog, and mainly on the trainer, this can be a problem. This is done utilizing defense and suspicion, but typically without any sort of release of stress and without any sort of transitioning to other drive states, all of which are an important part of real protection training. As such, it can awaken something in the dog, but not give the dog the balance that is needed to be truly sound, or the training experience to really know what and when and where it is appropriate to act in that manner. Nor does it give the owner the training skills or experience to manage that in the dog. It could be done well, with no problems, by a very good trainer but frankly good protection trainers are hard to find and someone new to this is going to have an even harder time finding a good trainer and then knowing if the training the dog is getting is actually good.

This sort of pseudo protection work is much, much more problematic that doing protection full bore because it is not balanced. Protection is not something to just dabble in or do half arsed, and in most cases with this sort of alert bark training that is exactly what will happen. That's why I at least would advise against it. If someone wants to do protection, do protection. But if someone doesn't want to do protection, then don't do it. Don't dabble in it a bit but never complete the training because that can lead to problems for sure.


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## ShenzisMom

AbbyK9-If what I said angered you in any way, shape or form I apologise. My point is that an animal trained in PP or schutzhund is now not just a pet. I may be taking it a little far but I liken it to a dog who is trained as a service dog. This dog needs and lives to work. When the dog is 'retired' the dog still wants to work and I've heard stories of dogs who 'worked' until the day they died, because its what they lived for-service and otherwise.
An animal who has been shown what it is like to work should be allowed to work for the remainder of its life, if it enjoys the particular job.
A dog properly trained in PP or schutzhund, ring sport, mondio, etc etc should be safe around all children, visitors, strangers, etc. A dog should not have entered a training program unable to discern the difference between a threat and joe walking with his coffee. This is why we have BH tests, the unsound ones get weeded out. A dog trained in PP or schutzhund has a regular life, where he is a happy butt wriggler who snuggles with his pack who happens to include a 5 year old girl. (now, thats a great picture someone needs to take)
But that dog also has a life where he is encouraged, and rewarded, for going into drive and working.

'I think that pets should be pets and sch. dogs should be sch. dogs-but sch. dogs can still be pets'

A dog trained in anything that shows aggression towards a human-including just putting on a show(barking, lunging, snarling) is no longer a pet. This animal is a PP dog and I hope you continue your training. 

I wrote this in another post. I forgot the 'just' and corrected myself in a later post:What I meant was 'is no longer JUST a pet.


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## AbbyK9

> The problem with teaching a true alert bark via suspicion and agitation (not just a speak command) is that depending on the dog, and mainly on the trainer, this can be a problem.


But, Chris, the original poster was not asking about training a true alert bark, she was asking if it's possible to train a dog to bark at another person, on command. I don't think it matters whether that command is "Guard" or "Bark" or "Pickles" - it's just that, a trained response to a specific command.

I don't think she was asking about protection training or how to get started with that, only about teaching her dog to bark on the command "guard" to act as a deterrent if she ever finds herself in a situation where she may be threatened or feel threatened by a stranger while out with her dog.

What I was responding to - and Deathmetal, it was not particularly directed at your posts - were people who seem to believe that you cannot teach a response to a cue (barking on the cue "guard") without protection training. And then people who suggested that a dog that IS trained to do REAL protection work can suddenly no longer be trusted to be a safe, stable companion around the family.

I don't think that training a dog to bark on command is training that teaches the dog to "show aggression" to people. You can train a dog to bark on command without training it to be aggressive. A bark itself is not aggression, although a lot of people may find it scary.


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## Chris Wild

AbbyK9 said:


> But, Chris, the original poster was not asking about training a true alert bark, she was asking if it's possible to train a dog to bark at another person, on command. I don't think it matters whether that command is "Guard" or "Bark" or "Pickles" - it's just that, a trained response to a specific command.


Of course it doesn't matter what the word is. But a lot of people were talking about teaching what is in essence a speak command, and while certainly any dog can be taught that it doesn't really look the part of a "back off and don't come near my mom" bark. A speak command just isn't going to cut it in terms of adding additional deterrent. An alert bark will, but that is an entirely different thing to train. And a whole lot of people do not understand the difference between the two.



AbbyK9 said:


> I don't think she was asking about protection training or how to get started with that, only about teaching her dog to bark on the command "guard" to act as a deterrent if she ever finds herself in a situation where she may be threatened or feel threatened by a stranger while out with her dog.


Exactly. 

But the point is, a speak command, no matter what scary sounding word you use to cue it really has no deterrent value. You might get some if you teach it using someone else as the holder of the treat/toy rather than yourself. But the usual way of teaching a dog to bark on cue to earn a reward the owner has is useless for the type of scenario she is thinking it might come in handy. 

An alert bark does the trick nicely and does have great deterrent value, but the very essence of teaching a true alert bark is getting into the realm of protection training. Whether one is interested in going further or not doesn't matter, that is what is happening. This type of barking comes from a very different place inside the dog than a speak command, and the psychology of what is going on in training it is very, very different.

As far as the idea of a dog trained in protection, whether a little bit or a lot, is suddenly going to become unsuitable as a pet. Well, that's total BS of course.


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## APBTLove

As for the original question... My dogs all have an 'alert', maybe not guard, command - even the pomeranian mix because it gets them to quickly check out their surroundings and be ready.

What they do is go on alert - ears pricked, not TENSE, but not relaxed, and if they see what I'm trying to tell them to they will bark or vocalize. I use this to show them prey animals (flame me, my dogs are dogs, they rat for me and keep squirrels out of the property so they won't destroy my nut trees and ruin the gardens burying the nuts), if I am particularly uncomfortable with a person when I'm out with them I give the "Watch 'em" command, and the dogs pay attention.. the person catches this usually and makes note of not getting close. Keep in mind I'm about a 5'2 female in a questionable neighborhood and my dogs get walked mostly at night.. The command isn't to provoke aggression, but alertness, and if I tell them to, vocalizing. The vocalizing includes barking or growling/snarling.. The average Joe doesn't know an alert bark from a general dog's barking or vocalizing.. 

I taught it very simply (because all my dogs have good prey drive), I'd get all excited to excite them, show them the rat/squirrel ect. wait until they're focused and give the command "Watch 'em", praise, and release, they catch on very fast, all I have to do is say the command after the first few times. They start to catch on that it doesn't just mean fun little furry toys quickly, or at least mine have, because I'd give the command when there was only a person, no animal, around and they would eyeball the person and get praised. 

My old bitch had it down so well if you said it she'd look all over and alert bark while still looking if nothing was around - she was always a bit ditzy though..


Not what I usually use it for at all, but a good example of why it comes in handy.. I had my elderly GSD pair out on unfenced property, they were 12 and 13, so slowing down and not the best hearing, eyesight, sense of smell.. I was a good 50' from them and they were coming up, sniffing and relaxing but following me. I saw - quiet to my horror - two labs that I know running loose. These two were a pair, a male/female, young, fit, and the most vicious dogs I've met to date. They spotted my two and started barreling towards them, I was going back to them as fast as I could and they still didn't know what was coming, I gave the alert command and they quickly looked around just in time to brace themselves. Those labs hit them like trucks and started biting immediately. At least my dogs were facing them and halfway ready to defend themselves. If the two had caught them, or two on one, when they were completely relaxed, loose and not expecting it and from behind, they would have been much worse off.. 

My dogs are little more than pets - but I've always had the command taught to my dogs, and my past dogs. It's never ever caused a problem. It's not teaching a dog to attack or bite, it's teaching them to go on alert.


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## onyx'girl

My friend has the same thing with her GSD/ all you have to do is say "Stranger Danger" and she is on. She wasn't taught this, the kids said it one time and her reaction was serious.


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## APBTLove

JUST now, I realized there is a man just standing there outside of my fence, I opened the door, let J stick his head out and whispered "Watch 'em.." - J looked around, saw the guy, and I said it again (when I say it a few times, it lets him know I want noise) so he gave a few very malicious sounding barks at him, that got the guy's attention and the guy actually left pretty quick when he saw me too.

I like letting creepy people know I have a grouchy 85lb watchdog IN the house.. His presence is deterrent enough.


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## codmaster

So APBTLove, are you going to tell us what happened next with the Labs and your two old GSD's? Sounds like it could have been a disaster.


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## Chris Wild

As I said earlier, I think this sort of training shouldn't be done unless people are very aware of the psychology behind what they are doing.

What Lies said earlier bears repeating:



Liesje said:


> I would be careful with this. Yes, it's possible to train, but often the problem is that people encourage what is really a fearful reaction and the dog is acting overly defensive.


Especially if starting with a dog with less than stellar nerves, intentionally encouraging fear aggressive behavior, and the owner acting in a disturbed/suspicious manner and thus making the dog more unsettled and less able to count on the owner for leadership or security sure doesn't seem like a good idea to me. And doing this when encountering perfectly benign and innocent people solely for the purpose of "training" sure doesn't help with the breed's reputation either.


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## APBTLove

codmaster said:


> So APBTLove, are you going to tell us what happened next with the Labs and your two old GSD's? Sounds like it could have been a disaster.


I didn't want to derail it further - my dogs came out well. Nothing too deep and thank the Lord the two lab's owner showed up within a minute and they backed off when they realized it was him yelling and hitting them, I don't like to speculate but I certainly guess he beat his dogs.. because when they did recognize him they hit the ground and both were picked up by their choke collars as high as he could. I got there when the dogs really started grappling, the male lab got me on the leg because I put it in the way trying to get him off my girl.


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## codmaster

Chris,

One question - do you, and others, think that teaching a dog to bark on command is teaching him/her aggressive behavior. I mean just to bark, with no encouragement to do anything else. If that is even possible?

I have taught previous dogs we have had a "What's that" command which made them super alert to what is going on around them but not to act in any specific way nor was it intended for them to watch any particular people.

Our current dog is always super alert to what is going on around him even to people entering the field where we do obedience training - with him I would never teach "What's that". It is hard enough to keep his attention on me now!


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## GSD07

'Beware of a silent dog and still water'...

I taught my dog a regular 'speak' command just for the sake of him understanding 'no speak' (which worked). Anton's natural alert bark is not even close to his 'speak' on command, it's just something completely different. It's like a dynamite explosion, very intimidating, but he is not lunging or snarling, he's alerting me and keeping an eye on the approaching threat and on me and my reaction at the same time. I acknoledge him and tell him that I got it from here, or I say nothing and the other person stops on their tracks and backs off (happened once but I was kind of scared of a strange guy changing his direction towards me in the middle of the night). I have never trained this reaction, it's natural and thankfully, my dog has a very clear head and good judgment. I think, if Shawn gets a well bred dog then she does not need to worry about 'guard' command.


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## Chris Wild

codmaster said:


> Chris,
> 
> One question - do you, and others, think that teaching a dog to bark on command is teaching him/her aggressive behavior. I mean just to bark, with no encouragement to do anything else.


It CAN be. That is the concern if people are doing it, and especially if having some of the "protection trainers" running around doing it, without really understanding what they are doing.

There are really only 2 ways to teach a dog to bark.
Frustration of drive, usually prey or food, which leads to a flushing prey type bark. This is the usual way a "speak" command type bark is taught. Bark for the toy, treat, whatever. Frustrate the drive, when the dog leaks drive through barking, mark and reward and voila the dog has learned to bark on command.

The other reason dogs bark is as a defensive display. One that alerts the pack to a potential threat and also serves to scare the threat away. Whether people like to consider this aggression or not, that is exactly what it is. Does it mean the dog has become some vicious Cujo? Of course not. But alert barking of this type, whether taught or coming naturally, IS an expression of defense/reactive aggression. The dog is not performing a trained trick or putting on an act. He has been placed into a defensive state of mind and once that defensive reaction in a dog is turned on and the dog's brain is in defense mode it can escalate from there. 

To encourage this, especially on non threatening persons (and most especially with a dog who is a bit iffy in that regard in the first place) can lead to problems with creating a dog who is too quick to react, is reacting in inappropriate situations because now it's been taught to view non threatening people as threatening so it's judgment in that regard has been skewed, or simply because it learns that it's owner wants it to act that way and that acting that way also gets a reaction out of the other person, which dogs love to do, so it becomes self rewarding as well. 

Certainly with the right dog and right training and right handling and an owner who is aware of what is really going on, it can work out just fine without any negative effects. But IMO suggesting this sort of DIY alert bark training via the internet is irresponsible because it's skirting the edge of suggesting DIY protection training over the internet. A milder form certainly, but it IS playing with the exact same drives and mental states that are used for actual protection training and targeting those drives on innocent passersby. And as the saying goes, if you play with fire you may get burned. Especially if you don't know what you're doing.


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## Chris Wild

GSD07 said:


> I have never trained this reaction, it's natural and thankfully, my dog has a very clear head and good judgment. I think, if Shawn gets a well bred dog then she does not need to worry about 'guard' command.


Exactly my feelings as well.

In a good dog, it comes naturally, but *appropriately*. Encourage it constantly, even going so far as to using encounters with random completely innocent people as a training opportunity as some people in this thread have suggested, and the dog's judgment may go out the window because he's learned that the owner likes him to react that way and wants him to react that way toward everyone and rewards him for doing it. So even if he doesn't see someone as a threat, he may treat them like one because it's what makes the owner happy. One could say this is a good way to turn a good dog into a bad dog.


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## cassadee7

GSD07 said:


> . I think, if Shawn gets a well bred dog then she does not need to worry about 'guard' command.


I think you are right! That's what I've concluded reading all the info in this thread. A GSD is a deterrant in itself, and has the natural instinct to respond appropriately if I was really in harm's way. No reason to mess with making them suspicious etc. in my case.

This is an example of why I really appreciate this forum. I get a chance to ask questions and run things past experienced people. Love it! Thank you.


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## elisabeth_00117

Just wanted to share something that happened to me tonight while taking Stark out to potty.

I live across the street from the biggest mall in my city, there is also a bus terminal in the mall parking lot on the other side of the mall.

I was walking Stark along the busy road behind the mall where my apartment building is located. There is a large grass area and I took him over there to potty and to let him sniff around.

I happened to look to the right and there were three men standing in the dark, on the side of the grass area that was next to a wooden fence. The men were talking and trying to look over the fence, not really sure what they were doing but I decided I wanted out of there.

Stark was staring intently at these men even though I had not given him any verbal cues too. He felt my anxiety and probably noticed a change in my body movement/pattern and adjusted accordingly.

He did not bark, he did not growl, he just kept watch. Even after we were a good ways away and back in *my* safe zone he still kept watch while walking in that area. No guard command needed. 

When I turned the corner to head back to my building's property I noticed the men had come up behind me (about 40 feet away or so) they were talking low (couldn't hear what they were saying, only knew they were talking). I immediately told Stark to "fuss" which is his formal heeling command, then when we came to the edge of the road, I told him to "platz" (looked more formal than a sits, at least in my mind) and he complied, still looking back at these men though. Once I had his attention (without asking) I told him to "steh" which is his stand command. Then we "fuss'ed" back to our apartment. I did hear one of the men say, "holy crap, look at that dog" which made me ease up. Stark still was watchful of them though. 

He knew there was reason to be watchful, but was still obedient and complied. No "guard/bark/watch 'em" command was needed. I think a well bred dog, with proper training in obedience can scare off anyone, or at least make them think twice. I am sure the men didn't mean any harm but being a young female, at night in the middle of the city... I am happy to have my GSD.


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## codmaster

Good boy, Stark!


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## Jessiewessie99

I am not sure how to put this to make it make sense, but do you think that sometimes a dog can catch onto something or make it a learned behavior in regards to "guard" or "watch" or they just know something isn't right?

Molly is very good at catching onto things and notices changes in behavior or notices out of the ordinary almost instantly(never taught her that nor is she trained for any sort of protection). Tanner is good at this also. If the front door is open and Molly sees something suspicious she will just stand there with both ears alert and stare at whatever sets of her alarms. She doesn't bark, growl or make any noise unless the person gets within distance that makes her feel as if she is threatened, Tanner eventually notices or senses when this happens. Our screen door is hard to see through into the house when outside, so people can't see if there is a dog or not. So when Molly or Tanner bark is scares the heck out of the people(mostly those who don't know if there is a dog in the house.)

When I walk either Molly & Tanner and I see something or get a strange feeling, they(Molly or Tanner) will be walking a few ahead of me, but when they notice my behavior change they get closer, have their ears on "alert mode" and will turn them in each direction one after another and look around. Basically they go on alert. They also do this if they get a feeling of strangeness when out on walks. Once they feel its safe the get less tense but still on alert.

Never trained either dog to do that, nor have they been trained to do any sort of protection work. They just do it.


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## cassadee7

Elisabeth, what a good boy Stark is! That is an awesome story, thanks for sharing it. I know he is watching over his momma


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## adamdude04

I would assume if your dog loves you, they know right from wrong if you took the time to socialize the pup. 

Arlo is protective of my girl and will sit/stand by her until she acts upon the situation. I have no doubt in my mind if her voice changed, or she started to back away Arlo would do his thing without any training needed.


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## APBTLove

I do believe I completely left out that I only 'point out' someone who is making me uncomfortable by giving him the watch command if HE hasn't seen it first.. which he usually does. He is very good about picking out people, he will keep an eye on them until they're long gone...

It was said several times here though, that obedience scares people the most... I think Stark was a perfect example of that, because they immediately think a dog who listens to you the first time is an attack dog or something.. My old bitch wouldn't hurt a fly, she's the one who had the 'watch' command down so well, she never bit a human in her life and never acted like she wanted to. She has a sweet temperament and a soft, feminine face.. But if I was out alone with her and someone was making me uncomfortable all I had to do was make her focus, heel, down, back up, and keep going and the person in question would usually back off. 

Because my boy walks in a beautiful heel and immediately stops and/or sits when I stop, I get asked so often if he's a police dog, K9, or if he's a trained attack dog or if he is going to bite them ("Not if I don't tell him to  ")... People's ignorance is your best tool. 

While I openly admit I teach my dogs an alert/watch command, just about any GSD/large dog itself tends to deter people from trying something with you.. Heck, I was standing at a redbox the other night with my dummy, I had him sitting between me and the redbox machine holding his traffic lead by the loop near his collar.. A man came up to get in line, saw J and went and got in his car until I was done and left, then he got his movies. 

The breed's reputation itself is usually enough..

And - well my version of the watch command anyway - the alert command is not to get an aggressive response. I know the difference.. While walking my pup earlier this morning there was a boat out in the water, I told him to watch it, he did until I said "Okay(which is his release command), good!"
He wasn't afraid of the boat, he wasn't reacting to the boat, he was keeping his eyes on it like I told him to.

I also will use his flirtpole to reinforce it, making him stay and 'watch it' while it moves about.


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## Melgrj7

I agree with others that just the visual of a GSD is a deterrant. When I walk Nash around the city most people cross the road (although if they don't I always move to the grass and put him in a sit at heel to let them pass), usually telling me I have a good looking dog, but keeping their distance. What is funny is that Nash is a huge baby, if I were assaulted with him there he would probably just bark from a distance, maybe even run away. Lloyd, my black floppy eared mutt, no one is ever scared of but he is the one that while overly friendly with people, if you mess with one of his moms you will be taken down. Not something we ever taught him, and we have only seen it twice. Usually he loves everyone, once when someone approached me from behind and grabbed a hold of my arm (not sure if they didn't see the dog or what) and another when some very drunk men were approaching us saying some not so nice things. He freezes still and lets out a very scary sounding growl, staring. But will stay in a sit or down. That scared the **** out of them and they left.


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## mssandslinger

APBTLove said:


> JUST now, I realized there is a man just standing there outside of my fence, I opened the door, let J stick his head out and whispered "Watch 'em.." - J looked around, saw the guy, and I said it again (when I say it a few times, it lets him know I want noise) so he gave a few very malicious sounding barks at him, that got the guy's attention and the guy actually left pretty quick when he saw me too.
> 
> I like letting creepy people know I have a grouchy 85lb watchdog IN the house.. His presence is deterrent enough.


mine do this too. Ill say who is it? and their ears get perky and stare at the door and if i say watch em' they starts to grumble and growl. i never did training they just over time reacted to when and they way i say it, if i say it low and quiet then they know something is going on.


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## tiatam

my lovely gsd is 4 and a half a failed police dog. he didnt make the grade. We took him in with no idea what we were taking on as the farmer who took him from the police didnt want him anymore. just to say he's a wooze. the biggest scardy cat under the sun. hates rain loves his bed scared of hoodies tall men umberallas bikes you get the idea? At home he's loving and well behaved sleeps with one of my cats his only claim to guarding is if someone knocks on the door once i answer it he runs away. Well this scardy boy proved that when needed he can guard. I walked him in our park one night and was approached by two youths they didnt see the dog but he saw them. The boys didnt mean any harm just wanted directions but my scared nervous silly boy appeared at my side like a dark shadow sat at heel and grew in front of me!!! alert calm confident and totally in control. His ears were percked his chest out and he eyeballed those two boys. I have never seen him act like that it was amazing to watch. i had to tell the boys not to approach any nearer as i was not sure if my Diesel would attack or not. one of the boys took a step forward and so did my dog never taking his eyes from him i told him to sit and he did without looking at me. The boys moved away after asking for directions and complimenting me on a well behaved dog he waited till they were away then turned into mr floppy scardy dog again. so now i know he can guard when he really needs to and he listens to my commands so he can be mr scaredy cat as much as he likes cause i know he will be there for me if i need him.


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## GSD07

._..had to tell the boys not to approach any nearer as i was not sure if my Diesel would attack or not...._

I think, in the future Diesel should never be placed in a situation where he has to make a decision, not until you know him well enough to be sure if he attacks or not. Fear aggressive dogs are not a piece of cake to manage; they are a challenge and they are a huge liability, but they are not 'guarding' dogs.


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## AbbyK9

> Well this scardy boy proved that when needed he can guard.


No, he didn't. 

What he was doing was not "guarding" - it was fear behavior. A lot of fearful dogs will growl, bark, lunge, hackle, and generally appear "threatening" when they are the ones that feel threatened. If the boys had approached you, I believe he would have bitten them - that's the last defense for a frightened dog who cannot get away (especially true when leashed).


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## Lilie

Cassidy's Mom said:


> You can teach your dog to bark on command even if you don't expect it to actually protect you. If you want to use the "guard" command instead of something more benign like "speak", that would probably be enough of a deterrent for most people.


I can be in my house and say "Come In!" and all the dogs start barking. I suppose they think they missed the part where someone knocked on the door.


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## Lilie

APBTLove said:


> Because my boy walks in a beautiful heel and immediately stops and/or sits when I stop, I get asked so often if he's a police dog, K9, or if he's a trained attack dog or if he is going to bite them ("Not if I don't tell him to  ")... People's ignorance is your best tool.


I so much agree with that! A dog who is in perfect control is scarier then a dog who is goofing around and you are chasing it down the road. 

We had contractors at the house (before Hondo) and I had only a Golden Retriever in the back yard. I put up 'Beware of Dog' signs all around the yard as well as on the sliding door going outside. I don't think he'd ever bite a fly, but they didn't know that and figured that there must be a reason for my warnings. Truly, it was because I didn't want them letting him out and you just never can trust any dog.....


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## DarkestUnicorn

I agree with the above, a dog who is calm and observant is a dog id be more likely to stay away from, my previous dog would often place himself between me and a person he thought was hinky, he was a PP dog and at the dumb advice of a friend i agreed at training him to "switch on" by giving him the command "Calm down" so id be standing there telling the dog to calm down and it would look like the dog was not listening. Thankfully i never had to use the command in a serious situation

I think back now at how dumb i was and shake my head but you learn from your dumb mistakes. Ruby now has great control, all i have to say is "Watch em" and she turns on and if there is no threat i just say "Leave em, Friends" and she just goes on like no one is there.


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## VonKromeHaus

I do Schutzhund as well as PP style training with Judge 2-3x a week depending. He will speak on command and his bark and holds are AWESOME! I've never had him alert on an average person, no reason too. He watches people that look suspicious without me encouraging him. I do as others and use his OB to wow people away. They think that if a dog can listen like that, then there must be more to them, especially a GSD. I like that Judge is a silent watcher when it comes to people. Small prey animals are another story. lol 

I don't feel that a family pet needs that command IMHO. Especially in this area with the type of people that are here. The look of a GSD is enough to keep them away in my experience. I regularly take Judge to the park after dark cause of work hours. I've never had a problem.


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## Tropism

cassadee7 said:


> I saw on another thread where someone has a Guard command they give their dog, apparently to have the dog start barking at a perceived threat.
> 
> Is this a common command to teach?
> 
> What do you think? Is this command a good or bad idea?


Yeah, from what I've seen it's not uncommon to link the 'speak' command to the 'guard' command so that you can look like you've got a trained protection dog. 

So long as you don't actually link it to -aggression-, you should be OK. That is, the dog is barking for you on command, not barking at someone else for you on command. This works better from inside a house or something, 'cause the dog may not look particularly intimidating, no matter how it sounds.


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## Denali Girl

Jees, I guess you learn something new everyday? I liked what Chris Wild had to say and it makes sense to me. What about other behaviors like "make a mean face", I taught my last Boxer to do this and he would bring his upper lip up, no growl just showing teeth, I'm thinking this may have been a bad idea? I do know this dog (God rest his soul) would never bite anyone and was the happiest go lucky guy you have ever seen.


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## kidkhmer

Been a little busy over here with pregnant wife and rambunctious daughter and Karma. 

I haven't actually developed on the "guard" command with Karma even though she now sounds like a Mack Truck when she barks. I have a much better command called "stand". When I walk Karma at night on the riverfront I get approached by the same scamming beggars regularly. One is this annoying Ameri-Laotian returnee who comes out with a different line every time he approaches me. Yesterday he starts walking towards me and so I put Karma in a "stand" which is basically a very alert / ears up full stand position and she tends to pull at the leash enough to put her in that forward stance. I then shorten my grip on the leash to about a foot above her head and hold the slack across my body in the right hand. I take a bit of a strong stance myself and i think the overall impression is enough to make people think twice. Anyways, I bent down and said to Mr Annoying 
" Mate I am sick of you approaching me....you keep coming and I will let my dog go........". He turned quick smart and took off .........


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## kidkhmer

..................oh and I should mention that over here in Cambodia we have 0/nada/zilch rules about dogs biting people etc. If you are a thief and jump over a fence here and get mauled by a dog here then you will also get beaten ( or worse ) by the homeowner and then carted away and beaten again by the cops for attempting a robbery. Ah......the perfume of sweet justice .


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## EMarquardt

What I find crazy about this whole conversation is: 

#1. A GSD just by its very nature is a scary looking dog to most people, especially perps. Therefore, even without snarling or barking, the GSD will look menacing to someone with violent intentions. (I am not saying a GSD IS a scary dog, but due to WWII and their use as police dogs, it has that connotation to people who do not know the breed.)

#2. If someone DID actually attack you, wouldn't your GSD likely respond accordingly, even if your dog is nothing but a "pet"? I think that response would happen regardless of whether you taught him a "guard" command.


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## DarkestUnicorn

EMarquardt said:


> #2. If someone DID actually attack you, wouldn't your GSD likely respond accordingly, even if your dog is nothing but a "pet"? I think that response would happen regardless of whether you taught him a "guard" command.


No not entirely. The most common response for a dog that is not trained in any sort of protection or aggression work would be to run.


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## CassandGunnar

Chris Wild said:


> As I said earlier, I think this sort of training shouldn't be done unless people are very aware of the psychology behind what they are doing.
> 
> What Lies said earlier bears repeating:
> 
> 
> 
> Especially if starting with a dog with less than stellar nerves, intentionally encouraging fear aggressive behavior, and the owner acting in a disturbed/suspicious manner and thus making the dog more unsettled and less able to count on the owner for leadership or security sure doesn't seem like a good idea to me. And doing this when encountering perfectly benign and innocent people solely for the purpose of "training" sure doesn't help with the breed's reputation either.


I agree 100% with this. I have had a total of 4 K9 partners in my law enforcement career. I also currently have 2 GSD's as "pets" in my home. One I have had for almsot 4 years and rasied him from 7 1/2 weeks old. The other we have had since may. Both dogs were rescues. My older dog, Gunnar, would have no problem going to any police K9 training facility and passing any certification test with the exception of narcotics detection. He has an aggression cue (I just used it last night and posted something on the STORIES thread) but I would never ever use that off leash.
I do not recommend that you try to teach a "guard" or aggression command unless you are prepared ot take the full brunt of responsibility. I would venture to guess that most PP or Sch trainers would not teach it either. You are trying to take a portion of comprehensive training and teach it out of context. Without the proper foundation and the overall "package" you cannot be sure of what you will encounter.
Keep in mind that you have to account for your reaction in a situation where you might give this command. You will be keyed up and your dog can read that and be confused. They may read your reaction as a threat and act/react in a way you cannot control or anticipate. You also have to take into account what the OTHER person will do. If the person who is being "guarded" turns to run or freaks out little bit, how sure are you of your dogs recall in a situation they have never encountered before. (Keeping in mind everyone involved is going to be amped up)
Even if you watch COPS or other shows that have K9's involved in actual work, watch the handler and the dog when the dog is in a "guard" mode. I guarantee that you won't see that off leash. Watch how hard the handler is straining to hold back the dog. Most of the time, they have the dog by the collar or harness, with the front feet off the ground. The dog knows what to do if the handler lets go........bite.
The foundation of any good dog, working or pet, is a bond with the handler and obedience. Most K9's fail in law enforcement training due to obedience issues or not enough drive, not because they are too mean.

Overall, I do not think it's a good idea unless you are prepared to go the entire way with the training. As most owners of calm, obedient GSD will tell you, if you find youself in an actual dangerous situation, the dog will take care of you.

Of my 4 K9 partners, I only had to retire one of them. (one was killed on duty, one died from a blood poison disorder, one from cancer) The final one I retired didn't "talk" to me for about a month. He hated me because I went to work without him. He became my daughter's buddy. He eventually came around, but it took a while. When we were not at work, he was everything you would want in pet. I would have had no problem with him in any situation.

Sorry for the rambling post, just trying to get my opinion out there.


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## codmaster

DarkestUnicorn said:


> No not entirely. The most common response for a dog that is not trained in any sort of protection or aggression work would be to run.


Are you referring to dogs in general or specifically to GSD's? My experience (7 GSD's) has not been that - at least 6 of them would have at least barked and growled at anyone they thought were a danger to me or our family - three of them actually proved that they would bite!

I would think that a "normal" GSD would at least attempt to protect their family.


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## DarkestUnicorn

To an extent i agree with you. I have had a few GSD's in certain situations and all reacted differently

Unless a dog has been introduced to the situation where you or your family and it are in the presence of a threat there is no actual way of knowing what the dog will do. To many people just assume because they have a GSD it will protect them and that is not always the case.


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## Jason L

I agree with this. Under extreme stress, when the dog is put in high defense, the response is fight or flight. Once the fight is activated (let's say the dog not only barks, growls, but pushed far enough, does actually bite), then the possibility of flight increases as well ... that is, if the dogs fight out of fear or stress, then if the fight proves unsuccessful, then they might very well run.


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## tapout1231

As it seems very typical to this sight, nobody has helped answer her question but given her all their opinions on why she should teach "her" dog. Thats all this sight seems to be, opinions and bashing people on questions. Help would be nice. Answer her question or move on. Im moving on.


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## jschrest

You dug up a post from 2010-2011 to make a rude comment? The OP was given plenty of advice on why she shouldn't do it, and also said if she was intent on it, to work closely with a trainer. Your take on it seems a little skewed in my opinion.


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## Castlemaid

:thinking: 

Not sure what the issue is? I've gone over this old thread and there is a lot of good discussion given in a respectful manner by some VERY experienced people. Very odd first post from someone.


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## newlie

I don't know. I taught Newlie to bark using "Speak" very easily and found it was really helpful to help him learn it's opposite which is "Quiet." But it means no more to Newlie than "Find ball" or "Wait" or even "Cookie." There is no emotion behind it, he doesn't snarl or become aggressve, it's just a word that tells him I want him to talk. I guess maybe it's all in the context of how it's taught.


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## onyx'girl

newlie said:


> I don't know. I taught Newlie to bark using "Speak" very easily and found it was really helpful to help him learn it's opposite which is "Quiet." But it means no more to Newlie than "Find ball" or "Wait" or even "Cookie." There is no emotion behind it, he doesn't snarl or become aggressve, it's just a word that tells him I want him to talk. I guess maybe it's all in the context of how it's taught.


tone of the bark may or may not be intimidating. If a dog is barking for a cookie, it is doubtful that anyone would retreat, unless that cookie is getting the dog frustrated and ramped up enough to get a deep bark. 
My puppy(9 months) barks for food in a high pitched girly voice, even when he is frustrated. Though his other bark is deep and more masculine. 
Then again a perp/tresspasser may not have a clue to tone, they hear a bark and may pass over that home due to a dog on premesis.


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## newlie

Yes, several people in earlier posts (much earlier, lol, I just saw this started in 2010) were saying that they didn't think you should teach a dog the command "Speak" because it might make them aggressive and I said that I thought it depended on the context. I didn't teach Newlie to bark for protection necessarily, so there was no emotion associated with it, it was just a fun trick to us. All that it meant to Newlie was that I wanted him to talk and I have to say, for whatever reaon, it did help him to learn the command "Quiet."

His bark when "speaking" is different than his bark when he sees or hears something he doesn't like, but it still may be a deterrent to those who don't know him. And if I was confronted with imminent danger, I probably wouldn't use the word "Speak" anyway, I can think of several other phrases I could use to get a more intimidating response.


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## Castlemaid

Earlier in the thread, people were talking about a "Guard" command, not a "Speak" command which is very different. 

In the context of the thread, "Guard" here means to orientate a dog towards a threat, and teach the dog to bark aggressively towards the threat. This is done by agitating the dog - having someone _act_ aggressively, and the owner encouraging the dog to get riled up and bark AT the threat to scare it away. 

The reasons why a person, who has no experience in protection/agitation work, should not be doing this is then discussed. Quickly, and in general - reasons are that IF the dog has any iota of a fearful/insecure temperament (called "less than stellar nerve" in a tactful way in the thread), we are putting the dog in a stressful situation, and fuelling his/her fear instead of building confidence. We are also teaching the dog that being aggressive when unsure is a good thing, when it is not: in protection training, a dog NEEDS to be confident in order to be clear headed and under control. Un unsure/fearful/un-confident dog is much more likely to react inappropriately and to bite unpredictably than a confident dog that has been properly trained. 

There is much dog psychology that needs to be understood for this type of training, something that takes specific dog training experience to understand (read: have actual experience in training dogs for protection work in the context of IPO, Police work, Military Service work, Personal Protection, etc), and should not be attempted by people who do not have experience in these areas, even if they are top dog trainers in other (non-protection type) dog training. 

Teaching a dog to speak on command can be very useful, but it is a completely different psychological process than teaching a dog to Guard.


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## newlie

Castlemaid said:


> Earlier in the thread, people were talking about a "Guard" command, not a "Speak" command which is very different.
> 
> In the context of the thread, "Guard" here means to orientate a dog towards a threat, and teach the dog to bark aggressively towards the threat. This is done by agitating the dog - having someone _act_ aggressively, and the owner encouraging the dog to get riled up and bark AT the threat to scare it away.
> 
> The reasons why a person, who has no experience in protection/agitation work, should not be doing this is then discussed. Quickly, and in general - reasons are that IF the dog has any iota of a fearful/insecure temperament (called "less than stellar nerve" in a tactful way in the thread), we are putting the dog in a stressful situation, and fuelling his/her fear instead of building confidence. We are also teaching the dog that being aggressive when unsure is a good thing, when it is not: in protection training, a dog NEEDS to be confident in order to be clear headed and under control. Un unsure/fearful/un-confident dog is much more likely to react inappropriately and to bite unpredictably than a confident dog that has been properly trained.
> 
> There is much dog psychology that needs to be understood for this type of training, something that takes specific dog training experience to understand (read: have actual experience in training dogs for protection work in the context of IPO, Police work, Military Service work, Personal Protection, etc), and should not be attempted by people who do not have experience in these areas, even if they are top dog trainers in other (non-protection type) dog training.
> 
> Teaching a dog to speak on command can be very useful, but it is a completely different psychological process than teaching a dog to Guard.


Yes, I can see that could be dangerous. I guess it threw me off when it seemed like a few people were using the two commands interchangeably, but no matter, I must have misunderstood.


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