# 13 Week Old GSD Puppy ... Introducing to other dogs.



## JayJ4 (May 7, 2016)

Hello all,

I have a question about socializing my puppy with other dogs, my pup is currently 13 weeks turning 14 weeks in two days, so we've been trying to socialize him (we're still waiting on puppy classes, but our job schedule's have been super tight.)... So we're trying to rely on our friends dog to buildup some confident and show our pup that it's okay.
Keep in mind, my puppy is a very mellow pup, but can be shy too strangers (won't approach, hides behind me), but then afterwards he'll be completely fine and comes out of his shell.

Today we met up with out friend who owns a gorgeous red sable GSD / Rottweiler mix, his dog is medium size, and a very gentle dog he LOVES people and attention, when we introduced the too, my pup started barking, and when the dog came closer (both of them were leashed), my pup avoided him at all costs, as in hiding behind me, and continuing to bark, and tail tucking (bad sign!) His dog was still trying to sniff his butt, but my pup doesn't know what to do, and then lost interest in our pup and started playing with sticks, we than allowed our pup to be off-leash while his dog was leash to release the tension, after 10 minutes they unleashed their dog and then he went off to chase and catch sticks, my pup then wanted to follow his dog, and when he did, he started barking still, but wouldn't go that close, he was no longer tail tucking and clearly wanted to play but doesn't know how? And then started avoiding, but the tension was completely off again, he just was still scared.

My other friend owns a female poodle / dachshund mix named Peanut, we'll be introducing him to her on Monday, she has had pups before (now spayed, she's a rescue), so she's very gentle with pups in general, but, I feel like the same thing will happen... Like I predict he'll run after her and just non-stop bark and avoid.

What can I do to fix this, and how can I do it? He seems so much more confident in-general after meeting the Rottie / GSD mix because now he's just barking at people :| yet ran after a little toy poodle and started barking at the poodle like he's bad ass. My friend recommended us having more playmates with his Rottie / GSD mix (very good dog!) so this doesn't happen and so he learns to play, and be good with other dogs, is this a good idea.

Keep in mind, are area has NEVER had Parvo, we're in a quiet neighborhood which people don't know about and have a fenced in grass field and a fenced in turf field, both the dachshund mix and Rottie / GSD mix are COMPLETELY vaccinated.

Our pup has HAD his 2nd shot.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

You might try going for a leashed walk together.Then your pup can get acclimated without the pressure to interact.He'll be ready to play in his own time.No rush.


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## JayJ4 (May 7, 2016)

dogma13 said:


> You might try going for a leashed walk together.Then your pup can get acclimated without the pressure to interact.He'll be ready to play in his own time.No rush.


So is his behavior okay so far? Tomorrow I'll be walking him on leash to my friends house which is only about 5 - 8 minutes away.. Working out him first, and then me and my friend will be walking back to the fenced field with both of our dogs... This time the dog is a dachshund / poodle mix.

Today though, he seemed a bit more comfortable, this time he wasn't tail tucking, but he was constantly annoying Red.. (The GSD / Rottie mix), as in, barking non-stop in Red's face, and growling when Red came close, when Red tried to sniff his behind.. He turned around with a growl and started barking. I also noticed his hair standing up.. Red is an imitating dog though.. Despite him being ridiculous (can't tell where we threw a stick, derp).. But, he does have imitating red (really brown, but look really red) eyes, and an imitating face (has the rottie head), yet has the GSD Czech coat that looks like this; http://www.dragongsd.com/Car_Rivie_Stand.JPG but.. It's more vibrant and actually looks red.

This time though, whenever my friend threw a stick, Red would chase after the stick and he'd follow Red, but start barking at Red, annoying him some more, I think at times he tried to nip Red.

Red is a very good dog, and tolerates him, but he's unsure about our pup still, so if he keeps barking at him, Red will show some teeth, and or do a light growl, but won't ever react on it, then trots away... Red still has been attempting to sniff his butt... My pup won't allow it (avoiding, and growling).

Also Red is always tired out when they meet as well. 
Should we keep continuing with this.. I'm not gonna ever take him to dog parks in general when he gets bigger (maybe sometimes ...), but it'd be nice so he have a play buddy, and so he knows how to be around other dogs, just encase something ever happens, you know


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

no the behaviour is not okay so far . 

this dog is terribly frightened and your attempts to force in-your-face social experience will lead to fear aggression - already seen in the chasing off of the little poodle. Not to be laughed at . This was his defence to get out of the situation.

dogs do not need to have dog buddies . Dogs do not have to be socialized to be in the bubble of personal space of other dogs and that includes other dogs coming in to theirs.

and you say the dog is people shy -- THIS is what you should be concentrating on . Done properly. 

forget dog parks and forget your neighbourhood's unofficial "dog park".

the description of Red doesn't matter , the dog could be fluffy gold or black and white -- or a curly poodle haired dog.
your dog is showing you his lack of confidence.

he may not be a confident dog . Your task is to have him neutral to dogs , indifferent -- focused on YOU , comfortable in all environments and neutral to strange people , tolerant to others .

there are lots of threads and posts about dog-to-dog socialization on the forum 

have a read http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html


by the way I appreciate that you are trying to do the best for your dog


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## woofmendez (Jun 7, 2016)

Yes you have to bring your dog in a walk to train them in the outside and interacting with the other dogs. It's just like a baby, if we will not used to bring our babies outside to interact with others, i'ts difficult to them to interact.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

dogs do NOT have to interact with each other especially randomly met stranger dogs


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## JayJ4 (May 7, 2016)

carmspack said:


> no the behaviour is not okay so far .
> 
> this dog is terribly frightened and your attempts to force in-your-face social experience will lead to fear aggression - already seen in the chasing off of the little poodle. Not to be laughed at . This was his defence to get out of the situation.
> 
> ...


Hm.. Thanks Carm.
I don't really care for dog parks, I just think it's a big mess waiting to happen, filled with diseases so I won't ever be taking him to those, ever.. I rather take him to the beach which he loves. I never really socialized him with dogs before (he's never been to puppy kindergarten either or classes) right, so I was always worried about introducing him to dogs, during walks we'd always see another dog, he never cared ever, but now I've been noticing on walks time to time... He just starts barking at them, like this elderly dog in our neighborhood who's very good to all dogs just sat there happy, looking away from him while he was non-stop barking at her, I just wondered was this due to lack of socialization, I never ever wanted to force him to socialize with another dog either, my friend is pretty good with all of this stuff, since he's a personal trainer himself and all of his dogs are spectacular, especially with our pup, he said his pup was the exact same way, but only introduced him to a few dogs, and his dog is amazing either way, so I'm not really interested in socializing him with the whole dog population 

Hm, thinking about it now, I don't really care about the buddy, buddy thing, really, I'm just more concerned about other dogs, we live in Van, BC, so there's dogs crawling everywhere, like I walk down my street, and you got pitties, shepherds, to little terriers and chihuahuas, go downtown... Dogs everywhere! Sadly two of the dogs down my street ... One shepherd has zero socialization and when that dog sees us with him, my pup starts pulling because he's barking at him (scared), there's also a pittie that this kid cannot control and had to be muzzled because he bit somebody who didn't report the bite, and the guy can't even control his dog and he's pulling towards my pup. I'm just scared my dog will do something wrong one day.

Also, Carm he didn't chase after the poodle** sorry for my bad communication, he hasn't met the poodle / dachshund mix.. (That dog is good with puppies, very gentle), I was planning on taking him today, basically walking him all the way to my friend's place and walking down to my little park, both of them going on a leashed walk, and then at the fenced in park, just letting him off leash and throwing his ball around, really. For Red, though the GSD / Rottie mix, the only time he'd "chase" Red is when we threw a stick, he LOVES sticks this pup, but Red loves them more, so he'd go after the stick barking at red, and then Red would get it, and he start trotting to us, upset that he didn't the stick.

There were times where he approached Red, without barking and started sniffing, and Red didn't care, just wanted to sniff his behind, but he'd get annoyed when Red tried to do that, so he started barking again.

He's clearly scared though, so you're right.

Should I not introduce him at all to any dogs then? Does it really matter that much?
For people, he's been getting better, sat outside of IKEA yesterday waiting for a couple of my friends, he watched people go in and out. Nobody approached him besides ONE guy, which he was perfectly fine with, he's just isn't the type of pup to run up to somebody and jump all over them.


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## JayJ4 (May 7, 2016)

carmspack said:


> dogs do NOT have to interact with each other especially randomly met stranger dogs


Forgot to mention how do I possibly build up his confidence level, I'm always letting him win tug.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

What Carmen said^^^^ And I really think your pup would feel safer if you could walk them together leashed.At a distance apart where the pup feels comfortable.If you want to play fetch in the field keep one dog leashed and quiet and take turns playing for the time being.Your boy may eventually enjoy playing with other dogs.Or not.Time and patience will tell.
I think most of us love the idea of hanging out with friends while our dogs interact happily with each other.Unfortunately that's not some of our dog's idea of a good time.The more you push,the more anxious they become.
Two of mine are great with other dogs and the third one is content to stay out of the way and watch.


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## JayJ4 (May 7, 2016)

dogma13 said:


> What Carmen said^^^^ And I really think your pup would feel safer if you could walk them together leashed.At a distance apart where the pup feels comfortable.If you want to play fetch in the field keep one dog leashed and quiet and take turns playing for the time being.Your boy may eventually enjoy playing with other dogs.Or not.Time and patience will tell.
> I think most of us love the idea of hanging out with friends while our dogs interact happily with each other.Unfortunately that's not some of our dog's idea of a good time.The more you push,the more anxious they become.
> Two of mine are great with other dogs and the third one is content to stay out of the way and watch.


I'll try the leashed walk at a distance. If it gets intense we'll both just go home. My friend is gonna keep her dachshund / poodle mix completely on leash even at the park though, he likes to watch too, like I said with Red, he'd relax and just lay there comfortably, until someone threw the stick, both him and Red would chase after it but he'd be barking at Red as Red is going after it, and then once Red gets the stick, he'd trot back to us our pup.

That's good to know that you don't really have to force a dog to socialize with other dogs .. Like, the way it's important with people, if that makes sense (forced play)


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

work below his threshold -- 

competing with Red for the stick isn't teaching him fetch -- he is chasing the other dog and barking at him -- which is teaching him to prey on the other dog - making him "big" in his eyes and teaching him to chase which could land the little pooch into big trouble if the dog he is chasing turns and brings on the fight.

watch for unintentional training !

let Red fetch those hazardous sticks --- you bring your dogs very favourite toy , a hemp rope or roll that you can toss two or three feet from you -- keep him near , and keep him focused - he can play with you and IGNORE all the other dogs . 

I have ordered this company's little bungee for my pups -- I like the resistance when the tug --
http://www.thegooddogcompany.com/collections/hemp-toys-dogs


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## JayJ4 (May 7, 2016)

carmspack said:


> work below his threshold --
> 
> competing with Red for the stick isn't teaching him fetch -- he is chasing the other dog and barking at him -- which is teaching him to prey on the other dog - making him "big" in his eyes and teaching him to chase which could land the little pooch into big trouble if the dog he is chasing turns and brings on the fight.
> 
> watch for unintentional training !


Should I keep him leashed then, and then sit him at a distance, and let him observe Red play the entire time? Rather than allowing him to chase Red over a stick?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

no don't let your dog chase Red -- when your dog gets older some of the toleration and exceptions afforded a baby will no longer exist -- they will be more or less peers and Red might not like being bothered 

teach your dog correct behaviour NOW while he is in the learning age


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## JayJ4 (May 7, 2016)

carmspack said:


> work below his threshold --
> 
> competing with Red for the stick isn't teaching him fetch -- he is chasing the other dog and barking at him -- which is teaching him to prey on the other dog - making him "big" in his eyes and teaching him to chase which could land the little pooch into big trouble if the dog he is chasing turns and brings on the fight.
> 
> ...


Okay thanks Carm I'll do that, I just have his kong and other things tied to yarn, and he goes nuts for it, and ignores everything else for it, I'll do that.

But ONE important question: Does he truly NEED to be socialized with other dogs, like. Let's say, if he never had any interaction with a dog before this and by the time he's an adult, would that make him lunge at other dogs, and or bark other dogs, or leash pull to get to other dogs? This is what I'm mainly concerned about as to why I wanted to socialize him.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I like your thoughtfulness -

"But ONE important question: Does he truly NEED to be socialized with other dogs, like. Let's say, if he never had any interaction with a dog before this and by the time he's an adult, would that make him lunge at other dogs, and or bark other dogs, or leash pull to get to other dogs? This is what I'm mainly concerned about as to why I wanted to socialize him."

take a moment and read the rethinking popular early socialization thread --

Socialization means he needs to learn how to properly behave in the presence of other dogs -- which is to mind his own
business -- "just be" , not afraid , not aggressive , not pushy, not needy for attention and not distracted - still attentive to you. 
Wait a minute , first of all you have to condition him to be attentive to you !! So when you are on your brief walks and he
becomes interested or aroused into a higher state of attention - then you have to give him a little pop , get the focus on you and keep on walking / doing whatever you were doing . YOU in the driver's seat. What a concept . Mastery . He will learn that this is rewarding - that connection to you.

there are so many threads and posts on this forum from people who improperly socialized , flooded their young pups, who may have had security issues , to all and sundry dogs on walks. Or even "nice" other dogs , but then the pup thinks these
meet ups are par for the course and, they are rewarding to the dog, but then the adult dog becomes a screaming , pulling, frantic , mixed messages , out of control dog. 

everyone thinks a baby GSD is soooo cute --- and will allow many things - which are cute for a pup --- but this pup is learning how to conduct himself in the world . Once he is 6 , 8 , 12 months and more it isn't cute and the object of his attention, person or dog -- won't like that behaviour one bit.

A stranger may stop and want to pat your dog , allow him to jump up , allow him to be frisky , mouthing or pulling --- but that for an adult dog - just NO way .

teach your dog everything he needs to be as a well behaved , non-nuisance, confident adult .


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## JayJ4 (May 7, 2016)

carmspack said:


> I like your thoughtfulness -
> 
> "But ONE important question: Does he truly NEED to be socialized with other dogs, like. Let's say, if he never had any interaction with a dog before this and by the time he's an adult, would that make him lunge at other dogs, and or bark other dogs, or leash pull to get to other dogs? This is what I'm mainly concerned about as to why I wanted to socialize him."
> 
> ...


Thanks Carm! Really helpful. I'll try to get him focused on the "look at me" command too.
Thanks again!


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