# First IPO class and questions



## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

Bruno had his first IPO class last night. 

*Round 1:* The trainer wanted him to engage with the tug/flirt pole but he was very distracted by the new environment and wanted to check everything out instead of play. He tugs well at home and goes pretty crazy for it but he wanted to run around and sniff everything, jump on the boxes, etc. 

So what he had me do was stand in a corner with Bruno on leash and he walked toward Bruno in a threatening manner (hard eye contact, posturing, snapping a whip on the ground). Bruno was a little unsure at first and seemed to want to go behind me. But I didn't let him and then he let out a little growl. The trainer exaggeratedly backed off. And then came back and Bruno started barking at him. Repeat a few times. 

*Round 2:* The same scenario but Bruno handled it all with much more confidence - he was barking aggressively from the start and straining to get to the guy. We let him advanced toward him a bit and Bruno pulled hard to get toward him - he seemed more sure and confident - ears forward, pulling hard on the leash. He tried to toss the tug to Bruno, but Bruno was very focused on HIM and not the toy. Totally ignored the toy.

So I guess my question is - does this sound okay? I thought this activity would be fun for Bruno and if it's not I don't want to do it.

But he didn't seem overly stressed out at all and afterward was fine walking around with the trainer etc.

Also, will Bruno get over his distractedness and get into the prey/tug part of it? Is it normal for a dog to not want to tug the first time? Or is this a sign that his drive isn't enough for it?


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## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

I think first time evals can be hit or miss...I wouldn't take that as an indication if he has the drive for the sport or not. 

How old is he? Maybe let him be a spectator during protection and let him mature a bit? 

My dog is almost 3 and his first instinct is to check out new surroundings until I remind him what he's supposed to be doing.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

How old is Bruno?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

How old is Bruno? Sounds fine to me. Believe me, Bruno loved it!! The trainer made Bruno feel like he is big and strong and invincible and can control the world! What dog wouldn't love that? 

I am 100% sure that Bruno will get over being distracted by the environment once he understands what he is there to do. He will be focused on work from the moment he comes out of the car. 

Some dogs don't 'get' the play tug part, but they love doing the protection work. If Bruno is old enough and mature enough and clear headed enough to be able to switch on for work and switch off when not working, then don't worry about the playing part. So far it sounds like he did very well for a first time, showed a lot of good reactions, quickly gained confidence, and recognized when the trainer was NOT a threat, and was able to relax - I'm sure you got a lot of good feedback from the trainer, you would have if you came to our club with Bruno.


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

Oops, sorry. He is 3-4 years old. We got him as a rescue about year ago so not 100% certain on his age. We were told he was around 3 yrs old at the time.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Sounds good to me and good timing on the decoy's part -crucial!!!!


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

Castlemaid said:


> How old is Bruno? Sounds fine to me. *Believe me, Bruno loved it!! The trainer made Bruno feel like he is big and strong and invincible and can control the world! * What dog wouldn't love that?
> 
> I am 100% sure that Bruno will get over being distracted by the environment once he understands what he is there to do. He will be focused on work from the moment he comes out of the car.
> 
> Some dogs don't 'get' the play tug part, but they love doing the protection work. If Bruno is old enough and mature enough and clear headed enough to be able to switch on for work and switch off when not working, then don't worry about the playing part. So far it sounds like he did very well for a first time, showed a lot of good reactions, quickly gained confidence, and recognized when the trainer was NOT a threat, and was able to relax - I'm sure you got a lot of good feedback from the trainer, you would have if you came to our club with Bruno.


Okay, good. All I want is for him to have fun and if he doesn't like it then we can find other activities. I just thought he seemed to have the personality for it. I guess I just expected it to be more like a game of tug. The other dogs seemed to be treating it more like a game to get the sleeve and prance around in victory but Bruno wasn't interested in that. (yet? He does like to bite/tug at home and is pretty nutty)

We did get some good feedback from the trainer but I forgot to ask about Bruno's lack of tugging. Interest in the toys. I mostly was asking about his defensive response. 

Thank you!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

sounds like a typical first lesson. It is a good thing for the dog to want to check out his surroundings. Make sure to follow the instructor's directions. The hardest part can be the human's part.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

All dogs are different - doesn't make one dog better or worse because some love the tug game, others don't - you have a good trainer there that he didn't fixate on the lack of tugging (some trainers would). 

Very common for new dogs to be somewhat distracted the first couple of times they come to training - no biggie.


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

Thanks guys! I really had no clue what to expect so just wanted to make sure this is fun and good for him and I am a bit of an over-protective mom


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I disagree with everyone I guess....the dog was not "into" it but was initially intimidated....it sounds like he was "I am not going to let you get me - I am going to try to scare him before he gets me"

Lee


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Most of us who do IPO and bite-work do so because we enjoy the activity, and because our dogs LOVE it! But do remember that part of the training is to teach the dog that they have the werewithal to deal with a threat, to deal with stress, and to keep pushing back when the fight is ongoing. To achieve this, your dog will need to experience some stress along the way - so don't freak out if that happens. Your trainer will know exactly when to apply stress, and how much, and when to back it up, just as he did in this introductory session. As Bruno learns to deal with stress, his confidence will increase. 

You said that the other dogs were all prancing around proud of themselves with the sleeve - that is a good sign. The training IS fun for them, they are enjoying themselves. You certainly would have noticed if the dogs were all stressed from harsh training and being pushed to hard too fast - they probably wouldn't even want to have anything to do with bite-work if that was the case.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

wolfstraum said:


> I disagree with everyone I guess....the dog was not "into" it but was initially intimidated....it sounds like he was "I am not going to let you get me - I am going to try to scare him before he gets me"
> 
> Lee


Initially - but then came around and rebounded and learned that he has some power and control. Not bad for a rescue of no known background at their very first session.


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

wolfstraum said:


> I disagree with everyone I guess....the dog was not "into" it but was initially intimidated....it sounds like he was "I am not going to let you get me - I am going to try to scare him before he gets me"
> 
> Lee


That was my concern with it...


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

Castlemaid said:


> But do remember that part of the training is to teach the dog that they have the werewithal to deal with a threat, to deal with stress, and to keep pushing back when the fight is ongoing. To achieve this, your dog will need to experience some stress along the way - so don't freak out if that happens. Your trainer will know exactly when to apply stress, and how much, and when to back it up, just as he did in this introductory session. As Bruno learns to deal with stress, his confidence will increase.
> 
> You said that the other dogs were all prancing around proud of themselves with the sleeve - that is a good sign. The training IS fun for them, they are enjoying themselves. You certainly would have noticed if the dogs were all stressed from harsh training and being pushed to hard too fast - they probably wouldn't even want to have anything to do with bite-work if that was the case.



This is helpful. Thanks!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

A good helper will get the dog into prey if he has the drive and reward him and give him success when he comes into this drive.

I like tossing a toy to reward the dog for intense barking. Pushing the dog into defence not so much.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> A good helper will get the dog into prey if he has the drive and reward him and give him success when he comes into this drive.
> 
> I like tossing a toy to reward the dog for intense barking. Pushing the dog into defence not so much.


I agree, a dog introduced into this should be experiencing prey frustration barking first.
Some dogs are difficult to engage and doing a bit of suspicion work can get them barking. 
I hope you are working with an experienced helper/club that understands balancing drives.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Castlemaid said:


> Initially - but then came around and rebounded and learned that he has some power and control. Not bad for a rescue of no known background at their very first session.


Where you there watching? 


Lee


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> Where you there watching?
> 
> 
> Lee


You didn't see her? Right next to the rest of us in the German Shepherd forum bleacher seats? For what its worth op, the odds your dog was ever encouraged to go forward towards a stranger and bite anything are pretty slim, prey or not. Nothing you described is anything terrible, give it some time to see how it goes.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LOL Steve.


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## mjackson0902 (Sep 14, 2015)

I have never done IPO before so I am curious. How does the dog know not to act threatening and intimidating to people outside of training? I understand that would be taught as training went on but initially how does he distinguish between the two? Like I said just learning here and I have never had the opportunity to ask this.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

When you take your dog onto the field for IPO you usually have the same "helpers" or "decoys". The dogs remember who they are. Also the helpers have on a smock or leather overalls to protect themselves. They have a bite sleeve, tug or bite pillow. Those all signal that the games are going to begin. The dogs should not expect to bite the handler if they are in their "civil" clothes..regular clothing. Also the dog may have on a special wide padded collar or a harness to pull against. These are things they would not normally wear. 

IPO protection isn't about teaching a dog to bite. It is more about control, when to wait, when to bark, when to bite and importantly, when to let go! If they don't let go on command, they fail the test, even if they had done everything else perfectly.


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## mjackson0902 (Sep 14, 2015)

car2ner said:


> When you take your dog onto the field for IPO you usually have the same "helpers" or "decoys". The dogs remember who they are. Also the helpers have on a smock or leather overalls to protect themselves. They have a bite sleeve, tug or bite pillow. Those all signal that the games are going to begin. The dogs should not expect to bite the handler if they are in their "civil" clothes..regular clothing. Also the dog may have on a special wide padded collar or a harness to pull against. These are things they would not normally wear.
> 
> IPO protection isn't about teaching a dog to bite. It is more about control, when to wait, when to bark, when to bite and importantly, when to let go! If they don't let go on command, they fail the test, even if they had done everything else perfectly.


Thank you!! That was very helpful. I have always been curious but didn't want to start a thread over it. This seems like a very fun activity to do. Is there an age limit to this for dogs?


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> I hope you are working with an experienced helper/club that understands balancing drives.


I believe he is pretty good and experienced. An SDA judge / decoy.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Ah, I know who you are training with....he does put some pressure on dogs early on. DennisT?


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> Ah, I know who you are training with....he does put some pressure on dogs early on. DennisT?


Yes, have you worked with him? Feel free to send a PM if you want.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

MayzieGSD said:


> That was my concern with it...



Yes but from the sound of it the decoy put just enough pressure and backed off at just the right time - the dog won confidence boost. Ended on a high note


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I know who you're training with. I've spoke with him, trialed under him and seen some dogs he's trained. I would trust him.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

mjackson0902 said:


> Thank you!! That was very helpful. I have always been curious but didn't want to start a thread over it. This seems like a very fun activity to do. Is there an age limit to this for dogs?


Age limit? Yes and no. They younger you start the better at building the behaviors you want rather than the hard work of changing them. I've seen older dogs, 3 or 4, have a hard time getting started because of things trained into them to be good house pets. 
I've seen dogs as old as 7 doing IPO, and well, but not much older than that. These are usually dogs that have been at it for awhile and it comes as naturally to them as breathing.


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

mycobraracr said:


> I know who you're training with. I've spoke with him, trialed under him and seen some dogs he's trained. I would trust him.


Thank you. I did like what I saw when he worked his own dogs (they were enthusiastic and happy)


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Different dogs need different work. They don't all fall into the same "round hole" category. A good helper/decoy finds what works best for each dog. I read nothing that sounded like this helper was doing a bad job and from what others have posted, it does sound like he knows what he is doing.


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