# Need HELP...not a lecture!



## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

my husband has a friend that has a lot of land who is starting a farm and he (the friend) wants to breed his female to our male so that he can keep the ENTIRE LITTER and have them run around the farm and be farm animals.
I know better.
Can someone please give me some information I can pass onto my husband? He thinks I am being absurd by stating that this is a horrible horrible idea. I am tired of telling him the information I know, so if someone has information directly related to keeping an ENTIRE litter (just not two dogs) please show me so I can show him!


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I agree, it's a horrible, horrible idea. Is this guy planning to get the entire litter spayed and neutered? What if it's a litter of 14 puppies? I would simply, flat out refuse to be a party to it, but if he doesn't use your male, he'll probably be able to find another.

A pack of untrained farmdog littermates running wild on a ranch is just about the worst idea I can think of.


----------



## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

Freestep said:


> I agree, it's a horrible, horrible idea. Is this guy planning to get the entire litter spayed and neutered? What if it's a litter of 14 puppies? I would simply, flat out refuse to be a party to it, but if he doesn't use your male, he'll probably be able to find another.
> 
> A pack of untrained farmdog littermates running wild on a ranch is just about the worst idea I can think of.


yeah, I've already refused and told him it goes against everything I believe in. Furthermore as much as I love my dog he has traits I would NOT want passed on (one testical dropped, he's a bully) he is very smart and effectionate. But we've never had his hips and elbows tested etc.

I brought up the spay/neuter thing and all he did was shrug his shoulders and say wild dogs have been breeding for way longer than humans have **rolled eyes**. 
I asked him what if something happened to the farm where would the dogs go? would we be willing to take in a few so they don't get sent to random people. He then proceeded to tell me I was a random person that got a dog from a breeder.
NOTHING IS THOUGHT OUT.
It's driving me insane. I'd like to think he wouldn't go through with it if I was this upset.

Oh, as for the guy he's very sweet and would spend time with them and "train" them (i use that lightly). He already has 3 dogs at his house here in town; he takes very good care of them. He just has no idea what he's getting himself with this.


----------



## lmuns349 (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm no expert, but from the posts I've read about raising a litter of puppies, it's extremely expensive! Is this guy rich? Because he's going to have to spend so much in vaccinations, vet checks, and FOOD. So much food! I can't imagine feeding more than a few GSD's, let alone a litter of 8-14 growing GSD pups! 

It would cost way less to adopt that many adult GSD's, who've already been vetted. Maybe he thinks if they are litter mates there won't be any aggression issues amongst males/females? If that's it, he's wrong. Two brothers are just as likely to rip into each other over a female in heat. Can you imagine several females in heat? Living on the same property, sharing the same males? That's pretty much a disgusting and inhumane version of survivor. 

I would start by doing searches for litter-mate aggression or something of the sort. I bet you could find stuff about that. I'm sure someone could argue that pack order would be established and they would grow up with it, but i would imagine you could still have some pretty serious scraps between siblings if there's breeding in the mix. Good luck!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Something else to think about, often times same sex litter mates(especially females) will not get along after they reach maturity, may even try to kill each other. If he doesn't spay and neuter them he's going to end up with A LOT of inbred dogs that nobody wants and then how will he feed them all?

I can't believe an adult is being this impulsive and just not thinking of the consequences.


----------



## Wildtim (Dec 13, 2001)

If he is starting a working farm dogs wild or otherwise are one of the largest predators of small livestock there is. anything up to the size of a calf would be fair game for a pack of barely trained GSD sized dogs.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

All I can think of is that the pack would truly be wild, and may pack up and kill a human. Way to go to further the cause of BSL!


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what ? he's being absurd thinking it's a good idea.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Castlemaid said:


> All I can think of is that the pack would truly be wild, and may pack up and kill a human. Way to go to further the cause of BSL!


that was my first thought too


----------



## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> All I can think of is that the pack would truly be wild, and may pack up and kill a human. Way to go to further the cause of BSL!


I didn't think about that, good point.

When I was growing up I used to spend the summers with my dad, when he lived in Georgia out in the boonies there was this pack of dogs that roamed, some of them were pets and the people didn't care enough about them to keep them contained.

Anyways this pack terrified me and anytime I saw the coming I would get back in the house, I had no idea what they were capable of and at this point I had never owned a dog in my life and was clueless about them... I think my instincts saved me from getting bitten or worse.

Every once in a while a dog would disappear and you'd know that he'd probably been shot by a hunter, they and farmers generally won't tolerate them and will kill them. If he's going to do it anyways is he at least going to keep them contained?(not that they couldn't find a way to break out). This is another thing to mention, they could kill or seriously injure someone and that would be on him.


----------



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Ever hear the saying "Males fight for breeding rights, females fight for breathing rights?"

Neutering CAN help males get along with one another, but not always.
But once two females decide they want to kill each other, unless they're kept apart, they're GOING to kill each other.

With a pack of littermates, there can be all sorts of dominance issues.

Dominance 101: Respect your elders. If they're all the same age, they have to fight for their place in the pecking order, and depending on the dog, speutered or not, they may keep going at it until they kill the competition. (Not ALL the competition, but the one they're trying to be dominant over).

I'm talking out of experience. Having owned two neutered male littermates that would try to kill each other for anything, and currently owning two females that have same sex aggression toward one another.


----------



## justde (Oct 4, 2000)

I would just say "No, end of discussion".


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If the farmer wants to use your dog for the breeding, just say no. You don't have to explain anything unless asked. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

lmuns349 said:


> Maybe he thinks if they are litter mates there won't be any aggression issues amongst males/females? If that's it, he's wrong. Two brothers are just as likely to rip into each other over a female in heat. Can you imagine several females in heat? Living on the same property, sharing the same males? That's pretty much a disgusting and inhumane version of survivor.


More like battle royale.


----------



## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

Google littermate syndrome. It was something that scared me when my mom and I got dogs from the same litter. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This probably should go down as something like the bad idea of the month. If the guy is planning on having a working farm, a half grown litter of pups could go through chickens, worry cattle, damage horses, kill sheep, goats, etc. I have raised up to three littermates together. It is not something just anyone would want to deal with. But it isn't impossible either. It is just, why? The chances are, you will have to separate them. And you will have to spay the bitches, or have inbred dogs. Probably neutering the boys will help reduce the males fighting, but if the bitches get into it, the dogs are not necessarily going to sit on the sidelines and cheer. Dogs will often get into the ruckus. 

The only way this will work is if you have an excellent kennel system and build enough kennels so that each dog has one to himself, and again, why? If your goal is to breed dogs, then ok, I can see keeping all the females, and letting them mature, and only sell the ones that you would initially eliminate from your breeding stock, but there would be no reason to keep all the boys. It would make much more sense to sell ALL the boys. 

I sold a male pup to a lady with a bitch who had a litter and kept a female and then someone gave her back a female, so that she has littermates and the dam, and then a pup that is about three years younger than the siblings. He is six now, so I am guessing the dam is probably gone now. But she had difficulties with the bitches fighting on and off, and all were spayed. And the boy, when he became a young adult, when the bitches would get into it, he would join in. 

Those can be some really nasty vet bills. 

Then, if you do manage to keep them from killing each other, they grow old together, and can you just imagine 6 or 7 geriatric vet bills all at the same time. Chances are, you will lose two or three in a year's time when they get old. That is something I would not want to go through. And sometimes we do, but this would be setting yourself up for it.


----------

