# Locations for Schutzhund???



## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

I am not doing Schutzhund training with my GSD, but I would like to in the future with a German show line/working line dog. Does anybody know of a Schutzhund club located near Warrenton, Missouri? I would like to visit them and ask them some questions.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

The sport of schutzhund requires as much time driving as it does training. In both cases it is a considerable quantity

Im a member of the local club and I still drive all over the southeast on a regular basis


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

USA - Mid-Central Clubs


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

GSDCA WDA
clubs_reg5


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Dvgamerica.com
MISSOURI



MID MISSOURI WORKING DOG CLUB (11/01/40)

Blayne Marshall, President
4412 NE Georgian Drive
Lee's Summit, MO 64064
(816) 886-6441

Paula McKinzey, Secretary, Treas.
32706 Byler Road
Creighton, MO 64739
(816) 773-7084 
email[email protected]

Georgia Derleth, Training Dir. 
PO Box 29
Peculiar, MO 64078
(816) 830-2687

**


MID-RIVERS WORKING DOG ASSOCIATION (11/01/25)

Dyan Harper, President, Treas.
7544 Stanford Ave.
St. Louis, Missouri 63130-2836
(314) 727-0452
email[email protected]

William Harper, Vice President,TD
7544 Stanford Ave.
St. Louis, Missouri 63130-2836
(314) 727-0452

**	


SPIRIT OF ST. LOUIS SCHUTZHUND CLUB (11/01/15)

David van Garderen, President, Trg. Dir.
9606 Siever Court
Overland, MO 63114
(314) 239-1380
email:[email protected]

Tom Rose, Vice President 
6701 Antire Road
High Ridge, MO 63049
(636) 677-3434

Jennifer Lupia, Secretary
9606 Siever Court
Overland, MO 63114
(314) 452-8481

Kari Koch, Treasurer
5317 Robin Road
House Springs, MO 63051
(636) 375-170


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

hunterisgreat said:


> The sport of schutzhund requires as much time driving as it does training. In both cases it is a considerable quantity
> 
> Im a member of the local club and I still drive all over the southeast on a regular basis


I expected this (though I hoped there would be one close to where I live), and I am willing to take the time and gas money to drive to the nearest club possible.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

gagsd said:


> MID-RIVERS WORKING DOG ASSOCIATION (11/01/25)
> 
> Dyan Harper, President, Treas.
> 7544 Stanford Ave.
> ...


Thank you!


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

You are welcome! 

I tried several clubs before sticking with my current one. It is nit the slowest (110 miles one way), but the best fit for me at this time.
Try out several and see what you think.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I expected this (though I hoped there would be one close to where I live), and I am willing to take the time and gas money to drive to the nearest club possible.


The bulk of the training will likely be done around your house alone. 90% or more of our training is done alone


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Mary's iPod wrote: nit the slowest 

Should be "not the closest"
......darn technology


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

gagsd said:


> You are welcome!
> 
> I tried several clubs before sticking with my current one. It is nit the slowest (110 miles one way), but the best fit for me at this time.
> Try out several and see what you think.


This Thursday or this Saturday, I'm going to the Riverfront Working Dog Club in St. Peters (I am very excited). You posted their location so I checked out their website, and I like the way it looks, but I won't know for sure until I see in person how their dogs work. Hopefully this will be my place!


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

hunterisgreat said:


> The bulk of the training will likely be done around your house alone. 90% or more of our training is done alone


Is the training you do at home only obediance? Or is the tracking and protection along with it? Will the trainers tell me what I have to do and how to train my dog these things?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

You mostly do obedience at home. You can also track at home if you learn how. Protection is harder to do at home unless you have a knowledgeable helper so I do most of that at the club. You can set up a pole and do it yourself, but you have to know what you are doing. You can work on basics like tugging, flirt pole work by yourself at the start.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I train obedience and tracking alone most of the time. If you don't train this stuff on your own away from the club you will not progress and never title your dog. We also encourage our members to get outside help if needed since it is very hard to teach the basics, especially, in a club environment.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> You mostly do obedience at home. You can also track at home if you learn how. Protection is harder to do at home unless you have a knowledgeable helper so I do most of that at the club. You can set up a pole and do it yourself, but you have to know what you are doing. You can work on basics like tugging, flirt pole work by yourself at the start.


So I think I'll just stick with the tracking and obedience at home. The Schutzhund obedience seems a lot more difficult than just the basics, and I'm okay with that. I'm up for a challenge. I've already trained my current GSD (not doing Schutzhund with him) more than just the basics of obedience, but still not like the Schutzhund dogs.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

lhczth said:


> I train obedience and tracking alone most of the time. If you don't train this stuff on your own away from the club you will not progress and never title your dog. We also encourage our members to get outside help if needed since it is very hard to teach the basics, especially, in a club environment.


 By basics, do you mean; sit, stay, down, heel (on and off leash), and recall? Do I have to teach stay in the sitting and down position? Are there any other commands I need to know? I know there is so much more to obedience in Schutzhund, such as the heeling off leash, and I don't know how to teach my dog this. The Schutzhund trainers at a club would teach me how, right?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The basics would be teaching people how to even train a dog. How to use food, toys, when to reward, work the dog in drive, every little piece of what is involved in training a dog along with showing them how to teach things to their dogs. 

There is a long down under distraction (another dog on the field and gun fire for the dogs above the BH level), then a down in motion with recall where the dog must stay in the down until recalled. There is also a sit in motion and stand in motion so the dogs must be solid in all three. There are far too many pieces to go into here. 

Yes, some clubs will show you how to train the different exercises, but I have not found a club that teaches the step by step process during the club day. They either expect you to find a club member to work with on other days or take lessons (sometimes elsewhere or sometimes from a club member). I have shown club members how I teach the sit in motion and the jumps, things like this. Often you can learn by watching and just asking some questions. I will give recommendations or pointers about teaching other things and help when needed. There are so many resources available now for people to at least learn how to teach the basics (videos and books). You will find that the people who really do well are those that are very self motivated to get the training they themselves need (whether from a member, private training, etc).


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Where I trained before, we used to help people from step one, or tried to, and it was *exhausting*. We kind of gave up on that, had to limit membership, tell new people (not new to our club but new to owning and training any kind of dog in general) to take some regular obedience classes and then come back, let some people go that just were not progressing at all because they only real help they got was on club day and then everything they did at home during the week almost made it worse. A few people were just naturals with Schutzhund even without any GSD experience or even dog training experience but most even with very good intentions needed more than what the club could offer, one day a week.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

lhczth said:


> The basics would be teaching people how to even train a dog. How to use food, toys, when to reward, work the dog in drive, every little piece of what is involved in training a dog along with showing them how to teach things to their dogs.
> 
> There is a long down under distraction (another dog on the field and gun fire for the dogs above the BH level), then a down in motion with recall where the dog must stay in the down until recalled. There is also a sit in motion and stand in motion so the dogs must be solid in all three. There are far too many pieces to go into here.
> 
> Yes, some clubs will show you how to train the different exercises, but I have not found a club that teaches the step by step process during the club day. They either expect you to find a club member to work with on other days or take lessons (sometimes elsewhere or sometimes from a club member). I have shown club members how I teach the sit in motion and the jumps, things like this. Often you can learn by watching and just asking some questions. I will give recommendations or pointers about teaching other things and help when needed. There are so many resources available now for people to at least learn how to teach the basics (videos and books). You will find that the people who really do well are those that are very self motivated to get the training they themselves need (whether from a member, private training, etc).


I have seen lots of videos and I am planning on buying a book on Schutzhund. I am very curious about how they train their dogs. I am not a big fan of treat training though. I think clicker training is okay, and I would be fine with using treats for a while but I would want to phase out of it quickly. The club I am visiting this week or the next uses the clicker training method. When I train my dog, I use praise as a reward. How do they get their dogs to be so enthusiastic about training?


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Liesje said:


> Where I trained before, we used to help people from step one, or tried to, and it was *exhausting*. We kind of gave up on that, had to limit membership, tell new people (not new to our club but new to owning and training any kind of dog in general) to take some regular obedience classes and then come back, let some people go that just were not progressing at all because they only real help they got was on club day and then everything they did at home during the week almost made it worse. A few people were just naturals with Schutzhund even without any GSD experience or even dog training experience but most even with very good intentions needed more than what the club could offer, one day a week.


I am familiar with training and have successfully trained my GSD, though his training is far from Schutzhund. If I got tips on how to train, couldn't I just do it at home too? Do you think a Schutzhund club/trainer would consider taking the time to demonstrate their training methods to me?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

In my experience, Schutzhund training methods really aren't anything special. They are just the same manifestations of operant conditioning that other dog trainers use for obedience, agility, basic puppy training, flyball....you name it.

What you do at home and how successful it is really depends on you or your dog. I've met people who could, with no club or expert instruction, train a goldfish to a higher level than other people who can't even get their GSD to sit reliably after months of regular training with a club and working at home.

I'm nowhere near an expert or accomplished trainer so I still cross train in several venues at a time, plus I get together with friends once or twice a week and we run through the Schutzhund phases together. IMO you get what you put in. We can't rely on club training to make us good trainers that are successful with our dogs. That certainly helps, but where there's a will, there's a way...


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Liesje said:


> In my experience, Schutzhund training methods really aren't anything special. They are just the same manifestations of operant conditioning that other dog trainers use for obedience, agility, basic puppy training, flyball....you name it.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Oh. I expected Scutzhund to be an extremely complicated course where only skilled trainers could advance. My concern is which training methods the clubs use. I do not like treat training. I do not mind clicker training and using treats for a short period of time, but I would quickly phase that out.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think most clubs use a variety of methods and have people with a range of experience levels. One of my good friends that I trained with at my last club was training the first dog she ever owned and we did our Schutzhund 1s together. We've trained our dogs together almost since their birth but both use different methods.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Liesje said:


> I think most clubs use a variety of methods and have people with a range of experience levels. One of my good friends that I trained with at my last club was training the first dog she ever owned and we did our Schutzhund 1s together. We've trained our dogs together almost since their birth but both use different methods.


That's understandable. Different clubs have their own opinions on training.
Thanks for the info!


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## staceybullock (Mar 22, 2012)

Check out Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 300 free dog training streaming videos, free eBooks, podcasts, by Ed Frawley and Michael Ellis for obedience and schutzund training info, articles, and videos.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

staceybullock said:


> Check out Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 300 free dog training streaming videos, free eBooks, podcasts, by Ed Frawley and Michael Ellis for obedience and schutzund training info, articles, and videos.


 Thank you! I will definately do that.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Also BowWowFlix.com: Dog DVD Rentals | Dog Training Dvd | Dog Dvds | Rent Dog Videos has video's to rent pretty cheap. The retrieve, send out, tracking ones are good. Not a fan of Ed Frawley, but other's are good. Michael Ellis has good ones, but they are drawn out/repetitive. Heres a list of my past queues:
BowWowFlix: Focused Heeling - Michael Ellis - Clicker Train DVD Building Drive & Focus with Bernhard Flinks - Leerburg Dog DVD 
Obedience Without Conflict: The Retrieve - Ivan Balabanov DVD

Schutzhund with Gottfried Dildei- Advanced Obedience DVD
Training the Jumps with Michael Ellis - Agility Leerburg DVD
Training the Motivational Retrieve - Bernhard Flinks Dog DVDhttp://www.bowwowflix.com/detail.php?id=217&r=c&rid=4
Motivational Techniques - Bridget Carlsen Obedience Dog Training
are worth renting.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Also BowWowFlix.com: Dog DVD Rentals | Dog Training Dvd | Dog Dvds | Rent Dog Videos has video's to rent pretty cheap. The retrieve, send out, tracking ones are good. Not a fan of Ed Frawley, but other's are good. Michael Ellis has good ones, but they are drawn out/repetitive. Heres a list of my past queues:
> BowWowFlix: Focused Heeling - Michael Ellis - Clicker Train DVD Building Drive & Focus with Bernhard Flinks - Leerburg Dog DVD
> Obedience Without Conflict: The Retrieve - Ivan Balabanov DVD
> 
> ...


My goodness those are a lot of videos. But I will look at every one of them and find the ones I need. 
Thanks!!


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