# Choosing between 3 breeders in California... So cal. help.



## Fantasma (Nov 16, 2010)

Hi, I am considering from these 3 breeders and would appreciate any help in deciding. The dog will be a family pet living in our home to protect and be part of my family. Good family temperament, and I will only do begginer obedience. No plans for competing.

Rancho Rhein in Leona Valley... I've seen 0 recommendations on gsd forums for herbut I really like the look of her dogs and Anne from adler says they breed dogs alike.

Adler Stein. ... highly recommended and am currently leaning this direction but really prefer the look of Phyllis dogs from rheum.

Witmertyson.. considering only because I like the look of their dogs.

I'm to keen on looks.. if weren't for looks I'd just go Adler... but I would really appreciate some opinions on witmertyson and especially Rancho rein since I cannot find much info or reviews on them.

Thanks


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

can you post the website links? it would help


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

You should not choose a breeder based soley on the looks of their dogs.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Are they reputable breeders? Do they do health testing? Do they title their dogs? Do they temperment test their dogs? Do they produce the temperment and drive that you are looking for?

What are you looking for in a GSD?


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

If it were me, I'd be contacting Anne at Alderstine.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

If you're going by looks get one from each breeder, they're all pretty nice looking!  
No recomendation, just had to go look. Here's the links if anyone else wants to see. 

German Shepherds, German Shepherds, German Shepards, German Sheperds, Schutzhund trained dogs, German Imports, Protection Dogs, Dog Training, Obedience Training California, Los Angeles Dog Training, Los Angeles California Dog Boarding, Narcotic Detec

Adler Stein Kennels-German Shepherds-German Shepherd Puppies-Working Line German Shepherds

Witmer-Tyson Imports -


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Alderstein was one i was looking at. The first link looks good as well.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> If it were me, I'd be contacting Anne at Alderstine.


Same here. Always love reading her posts

For what you're looking for I'm not sure if she is the breeder for you

There is a "fun" thread right now on "GSDs to protect your home" you should read it.

Also a GSD needs more from you than beginner OB, obedience training is something for the life of the dog and GSDs need something to do


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

How about start doing a little more research on your own. Witmer Tyson is very well known and has been arond a LONG time and has a lot of info out there about them and on their website. See if there are things you like about them other than the "looks of their dogs."

I think Anne is a fabulous breeder (and if she says Rancho Rhein is too, then they probably are). But, if you your research looks are the ONLY reason you can find for putting a pretty-well known breeder with excellent dogs on your list....well....that's all I'll say!


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## Fantasma (Nov 16, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> Same here. Always love reading her posts
> 
> For what you're looking for I'm not sure if she is the breeder for you
> 
> ...


I've seen that thread, I have been a member here for a while reading and searching for anything I was looking for. My Wife does have a revolver, and I do have a shotgun. When I mean protect my family I mean to act as a deterrent so it never has to reach to the point where we need to bring out firearms.. a simple bark will deter most criminals and currently we don't have that as we just moved into our first home... I don't look for any special traits or demand a protective dog that is not the reason I considered the GSD for my next dog.. I know any dog that barks is good enough. I've wanted a GSD because I grew up with one when I was a child.

The 3 breeders I am considering are reputable breeders, and One cannot deny that we choose looks sometimes... But I lined 3 great breeders and I am in the position to choose with.


The reason I came here was to get reviews or opinions on Rancho Rhein and Witmer tyson as I have searched and searched and can only pull up a few posts of witmer tyson and none for rancho rhein.


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## Fantasma (Nov 16, 2010)

GSDElsa said:


> How about start doing a little more research on your own. Witmer Tyson is very well known and has been arond a LONG time and has a lot of info out there about them and on their website. See if there are things you like about them other than the "looks of their dogs."
> 
> I think Anne is a fabulous breeder (and if she says Rancho Rhein is too, then they probably are). But, if you your research looks are the ONLY reason you can find for putting a pretty-well known breeder with excellent dogs on your list....well....that's all I'll say!



I know most people will automatically assume that I just glanced at these 3 breeders and picked by looks I've already researched and chose those 3 because IMO that's the best that is available near me. I've read all websites page after page... and looks are not only the reason these are in my TOP 3 breeders to choose from, but it is what makes it hard to choose as I am in love with how they all look and it would be hard for me to choose... it is also what they stand for in the GSD community about keeping the GSD how they were meant to be... SO please don't generalize me as a total noob just a moderate one LOL..

I just came here for opinions on Rancho Rhein and Witmer tyson about what people think of them as I already know what everyone thinks of adler...

Adler stein is highly recommended in this forum and I've searched every single so cal thread I can find and she is always the winner.

Just wanted to broaden my option before going with adler, as I've already mentioned that is current breeders I am leaning towards.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Go to other website other than this one. They have a lot of good reviews. I was considering a puppy from the Mic vd Kine x Pima Aritat Bastet breeding, but she ended up not having puppies (and look a that, I got my OWN Aritat Bastet puppy lol). 

Sue on here spent a lot of years in CA and I know Randy Tyson was very good to her when they were in a club together. 

I know there are some people here with WT dogs, but I can't remember their user names.

I know we all have looks effect us to a certain extent...but you still should be able to say more than looks as a reason for leaning towards a breeder. If you haven't, contact Randy directly and see how a relationship getting established goes. Some people don't click and that could be your decision maker.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Fantasma said:


> I know most people will automatically assume that I just glanced at these 3 breeders and picked by looks I've already researched and chose those 3 because IMO that's the best that is available near me. I've read all websites page after page... and looks are not only the reason these are in my TOP 3 breeders to choose from, but it is what makes it hard to choose as I am in love with how they all look and it would be hard for me to choose... it is also what they stand for in the GSD community about keeping the GSD how they were meant to be... SO please don't generalize me..
> 
> I just came here for opinions on Rancho Rhein and Witmer tyson about what people think of them as I already know what everyone thinks of adler...
> 
> ...


You kind of generalized yourself by coming on here and only saying "I'm considering these 3 breeders...wWT because I like the looks of their dogs" as the one and only reason. That's great you're explaining more, but people will generalize if you're generalizing yourself 

If you are confident all 3 are good breeders, go with the one you click with the best.


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## Fantasma (Nov 16, 2010)

GSDElsa said:


> You kind of generalized yourself by coming on here and only saying "I'm considering these 3 breeders...wWT because I like the looks of their dogs" as the one and only reason. That's great you're explaining more, but people will generalize if you're generalizing yourself
> 
> If you are confident all 3 are good breeders, go with the one you click with the best.



Your right which I felt the negativity so I immediately came back in here to explain. 

I already contacted adler and Witmer... and will continue to speak to them until my final decision is made. I hope I can get some opinion on witmer and rancho rhein..

Thanks.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Can you go visit? Meet the dogs?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Jean, AND, I would check out all three of them, who knows they may not have what your looking for, they may not want to sell you a dog, so keep all three on your list, and contact them all to see what develops


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Fantasma said:


> Your right which I felt the negativity so I immediately came back in here to explain.
> 
> I already contacted adler and Witmer... and will continue to speak to them until my final decision is made. I hope I can get some opinion on witmer and rancho rhein..
> 
> Thanks.


Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't being negative, if you took it that way I apologize. I was just saying that there is more to picking a breeder than how their dogs look. The first impression I got from your 1st post was that you were only interested in looks, but I see that you do indeed know what you are looking for and you know that looks do not mean everything.

I do think that looks are important, just not important as temperment and drive. 

I personally would not take a puppy that I was not attracted to, there are hundreds of puppies in this world that have the right temperment, drives and looks for me, so why settle on a puppy that isn't everything I wanted? Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

Good luck in your search.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Alderstein


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Maybe it's just me but I read the OP's post as "I like the looks of..." which to mean reads "I like the overall appearance" including conformation, etc...

When I personally say I like the looks of something, it's not intended as.."oooo pretty puppies, I want one!" It's intended as, "Wow, what great conformation, overall structure, and yes, the dog is pleasing to the eye, etc"


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

If I were buying a puppy, I would not miss a heartbeat seeing what Anne had to offer. But given your needs for a basic pet.....I would listen to what she says. I would be looking for a working dog

I would also listen to the advice about a particular puppy. This is where you want the BREEDER to pick FOR you based on your needs and experience.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

"Page after page" of web sites is nothing compared to actually calling up these breeders, discussing your goals, meeting their dogs. We can't tell you who to choose, nor could we even guess if these breeders have anything suitable for you in the first place. I would be getting on the phone, setting up some visits.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I don't have anything intelligent to add, I just want to say that this pic, from Rancho Rhein's website, is one of the best I've ever seen on a breeder's site.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Liesje said:


> "Page after page" of web sites is nothing compared to actually calling up these breeders, discussing your goals, meeting their dogs. We can't tell you who to choose, nor could we even guess if these breeders have anything suitable for you in the first place. I would be getting on the phone, setting up some visits.


I would like to know, just out of curiosity has anyone who has posted a preference met dogs from all three kennels? Probably a couple have, and I would definitely want to see that indicated. 

The meeting thing is just huge. My only experience with it in terms of dog selection is in rescue. People have potential matches of say a few dogs. They go and meet them all and that is how they choose - and usually with ease once they have done this. Lots of times the one they think they want, they don't. But they could not have told this just from reading the write ups or talking to the fosters.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Exactly Jean. I don't know any of those breeders nor have I ever met a dog from any of the three kennels so I can't say yes/no just based on a web site and some public message board posts. There's nothing on any of those sites that makes me go, "ew, no!" so if those three were do-able I'd definitely give them all a call and also find out what clubs have their dogs so I could go watch them train.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Start with the dogs, not the breeders. What breeding or an adult dog would you consider and why? Come here and ask about the dogs, the pedigrees, then go and meet the dogs, then consider breeders.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I actually looked at Adlerstein in 2003 based on some other SAR folks positive comments. Was on some small forums with her (including hers) and wound up with a dog from a former partner of hers (that breeder had the sister to one of Annes dogs) I am not sure Anne would have put together the same breeding pair though that the former partner did.

Well my comment was mainly based on those two factors, not just interent discussion forums but some input where I think she should talk with Anne and have no concerns there will be good advice. The true could be said of the others as well.

---

Based on the OPs post I am not sure she has the background to ask about specific dogs first. There are so many nuances to the combination. I would mainly be 110% clear of what her expectations and exprience level are. Also a lot of people have some vision in mind when they look for a dog. Sounds like OP has an honest and realistic vision of what she is looking for.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

For the first time ever, I am going to respond to one of these threads.

First, to the OP, once you decide who you are interested in, if you think you want one of mine, just fill out my questionnaire and I will let you know if I think a pup from my kennel will fit. 

Second, Phyllis at Rancho Rhein avoids the internet like the plague. So, you will not be reading anything from her. I would suggest that you call her if you are interested. Years ago, she had the best dogs in the US and still has some of the best dogs I have ever seen and worked, trained etc. More than a few dogs went to the WUSV that she bred or out of dogs she imported.

Third, Randy has been breeding dogs for almost as long as Phyllis which is in the 40 year range. I saw her dogs years ago but could not offer more than that because I don't remember, it was that long ago  ... She has a very successful kennel and places lots of Police Dogs.

Forth, Nancy, I have never had a "partner" in dogs. Maybe that person represented it that way but that is not accurate...at all.

As usual, Lies offered some good advice.:thumbup:


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Anne, my apologies. Yes she did. Water way over the dam; and I think this person may be out of business at this point. In any event, I have felt that in the past you gave insightful advice and are not there to "sell" your dogs but to find the best option for the buyer. Any comments I made were based on direct advice you gave some time ago as well as comments from other flesh and blood people. All positive.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I don't think you could go wrong with any of them. Myself I'd be inclined more toward Anne or Phyllis mainly due to smaller, less commercial focus. But really all would be good choices. Talk to them, meet their dogs, and go from there.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Not a problem Nancy, just clarifying.

I just want to add a couple of comments about Phyllis especially, ( because I know her better than Randy), and Randy. Both are very knowledgeable about German Shepherd Dogs. Both are no nonsense types. I have learned more about training, and German Shepherds overall, from Phyllis than any other person in dogs. Her knowledge about dogs goes far beyond most, especially nowadays. She saw, owned and trained dogs out the some of the most famous and well known working lines....back when they were show dogs too. She reads and understands dogs better than anyone I know, and although I am a more physically fit helper...when she does it, ( at 65 years of age no less), the dogs know there is someone who means business wearing that sleeve. She is no longer well known because things have shifted in a certain direction but for me, she is a constant source of information and I still learn things from her. Not many of these people left unfortunately and the breed will be worse off when they are gone. I got lucky when I found the SchH club she was running and when I bought my first dogs from her.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

As a few others have said, go visit all three of these breeders and then pick the one who has the dogs that most appeal to you. All three have excellent reputations and know German Shepherd Dogs.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

not to go OT, but I will, if that car was my husbands, he'd have a hairy canary if one of my dogs was on top of it LOL...LOVE the picture tho)


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

There is a red towel under the dog. I am still trying to get her to give up that license plate so I can claim it...or maybe I can get her to give me the whole car. Oh wait....not with gas at 5 bucks a gallon....


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

lol you could get IPO3 or VPG3 maybe?????

Lee


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

The reason I like that one is because it was made when SchH 3 was SchH III . They used to use roman numerals vs the numbers. Maybe it is just because it is on that car. First time I rode in that thing I almost went out and made a huge financial mistake. They are for sure, fun cars.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

ahh I missed the plate! to busy looking at the dog and car We've had some "fun" cars,,the last one was 69 Nova SS, ya know the wide tire thing, 4 speed 450.. The hubby had a fit if I ever even thought of putting one of the dogs in it, let along on it Altho I did get my GSD's in the Grand prix when he wasn't around))


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