# perianal fistula- staying on raw



## atravis

After a couple of weeks of hoping and praying that this was something simple, I received conformation from my vet today that I would have no such luck. Mulder has PFs.

The first time I took him into the vet, they expressed his anal glands and said that would likely fix his sudden, obsessive licking of his anus.

After a week of continued licking, I brought him back in. This time the vet expressed them, and not only were they full again, there was blood. Based on the diet I feed (raw), he didn't feel that it was allergies/PFs/IBD that was causing the issue, and instead felt that it was an infection in the glands that could be fixed with some k-laser treatments. He did the treatment, gave him a mild steroid shot, and sent him home with some zymox topical spray.

For the next couple of days, everything seemed fine. No licking. Then this morning, he started up again, at full force. I went to spray his rear with the zymox, when I saw it... a large red lump on his anus. I rushed him back into the doctor, where he finally did a full rectal exam, and determined that it was, indeed, fistulas.

Now my problem is this. Aside from Prednisone and Metronidazole, they told me to keep him on a novel protein diet... not something easy to do while feeding raw.

I have not yet received my load of venison, so I plan to use that for an elimination diet for now.

But what I want to know more than anything, is if anyone else has gone through this and remained on a raw diet?

Mulder has never looked or done better than he has on raw. I don't want to switch him off, bit will if I absolutely must. Feeding a single or even limited protein diet on raw will not be easy, but I can make it work if I can figure out exactly what he can handle, and keeping that in the diet for cheap.

Really, I just need a little reassurance right now. I'm hurting very bad over this, and only want to figure out what will be best for Mulder.


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## lhczth

I had a dog years ago with PF's who I actually switched to raw. She even went off the drugs for awhile. I wish I had known then what I know now because she would have not received any carbs. That was back when I fed the veggie mixtures and still used dog cookies.


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## lhczth

Another thing, since PF is an autoimmune issue I would NEVER vaccinate Mulder again.


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## atravis

How can I not? Rabies is required by law... I can get titers, but those will only last for so long...

I'm not giving veggies now, as I do the prey model deal. You think that would be best? I've considered home cooking, as his immune system will be down on the pred and more susceptible to something in the raw, but if adding in more carbs is only going to hurt things, I will take my chances.


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## JakodaCD OA

If he has no other underlying problems, like allergies, ibd, sibo, and the vet thinks the pf's could be the result of anal gland infections, I would seriously look into removing the glands.

I've had two gsd's with pf's, and BOTH were the result of anal gland infections. The first I had removed, remove the glands , removed the problem, all was good The second I decided to go with cyclosporine which also cleared them up, we had a couple set backs, but cleared them up with Desitin (topical diaper rash creme w/zinc)/

Since my dogs were both the result of anal gland infection I did not change their diet, they were on raw/kibble. 

Alot of PF'ers have other problems as I mentioned, and tend to go with a fish based diet as the other protein.

Have you been to the PF site?? perianal-fistulas
ALOT of info there, as well as vets by areas, that are PF savvy. The email list is also good to get on, alot of knowledge there. 

Honestly, I'd have no hesitation having the glands removed IF these are the result of anal gland infections

I agree with no more vacs, HOWEVER, I have to give Rabies by law to, (some have seen pf's or flare ups AFTER a rabies vac)
so I went with Thimerisol Free Rabies vac, and held my breath,,no problem there tho


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## atravis

See, I really don't think it has anything to do with diet... as he's NEVER shown any symptoms of food allergies, ever. Even when he was on kibble. He has a flea allergy, but that's neither here nor there. But this is what I was recommended, and what I see on all of the PF information sites.

I've been to the PF-L site, and have sent in an application to join the yahoo group. 

I talked to the vet about the glands, and he mentioned removal, but scared me with the notion of Mulder becoming incontinent. I've talked to a friend of mine who is a vet tech, and she assures that while this is possible, is unlikely if done by someone who is skilled at it? 

I do not know if they are the result of an infection. I almost hope that they are... and it did indeed look like one, considering the symptoms and the vet's own initial diagnosis... so if removing them will cure this 100%, I'm of course open to the idea.


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## onyx'girl

As far as the rabies vaccine, you can get a waiver from your vet stating Mulders health will be compromised with vaccinations. The state should accept the waiver.
Sorry to hear about Mulders problems...hope you find relief for him, he is so young.


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## GSDAlphaMom

I had gsd with autoimmune disease and we did rabies but no other vacs. He did fine.
His titers stayed up about 4 years before they started going down.


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## JakodaCD OA

I was of course worried about the incontinence thing to, and never had a problem..I have a couple of friends who also had their dogs glands removed and never a problem there to...If you get a skilled surgeon, your good to go. 

And no I wouldn't associate a flea allergy in the same category as the other issues I mentioned. 

While I also had the choice to get a waiver for the rabies, the thing that concerned me was,,,IF for some bizarre reason , as it was highly unlikely, Dodge had bit someone, he would be subject to the same rules/laws as a dog who was not up to date on a rabies shot..My aussie the same thing, she is an mdr1 dog, so I never vac her, but do rabies,,why? I have alot of sick rabid animals around, and don't want both of them subject to whatever laws apply IF they came into contact with one..


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## atravis

Thanks guys for all the good advise. My tech friend is going to talk to the vets at her clinic tonight (she works for an ER), and see what they think about getting the glands done, or if they know of anyone skilled at doing it.

For now I will keep him on his usual raw diet... worthless to worry about it now anyway I guess, as I do not yet have anything novel for him to try.

I'll probably start getting him titered, and vac. only when I absolutely have to... as mentioned, IF something were to happen, I wouldn't want him subject to laws that would put him at risk of being destroyed.


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## LisaT

Food allergies can be tricky. The fact that there is a PF shows that there is an inflammatory process occuring. It can be infection based, or otherwise. 

If treatment is not successful, I would look at changing the diet.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Can you list everything you feed - including supplements, treats, etc.

The one good thing about being on raw if you do go the gland removal route - the stools that do fall out (and they do just drop out) would be formed and non-smelly. I know - my 12 yr old Cocker, Tazer, sometimes loses a poop when he wakes up and stretches.


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## Toffifay

One of my clients raises and shows American GSD's and one of her dogs has had on going problems with PF's. She has found that a strict diet of prepared raw duck and goose helps keep her healthy. She sometimes uses a strong creme from the Vet, but supposedly this creme has had side effects of causing cancer! So, she tires to keep it at a minimum. The strict raw diet has virtually kept her symptom free.


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## deedeearmstrong

atravis said:


> After a couple of weeks of hoping and praying that this was something simple, I received conformation from my vet today that I would have no such luck. Mulder has PFs.
> 
> The first time I took him into the vet, they expressed his anal glands and said that would likely fix his sudden, obsessive licking of his anus.
> 
> After a week of continued licking, I brought him back in. This time the vet expressed them, and not only were they full again, there was blood. Based on the diet I feed (raw), he didn't feel that it was allergies/PFs/IBD that was causing the issue, and instead felt that it was an infection in the glands that could be fixed with some k-laser treatments. He did the treatment, gave him a mild steroid shot, and sent him home with some zymox topical spray.
> 
> For the next couple of days, everything seemed fine. No licking. Then this morning, he started up again, at full force. I went to spray his rear with the zymox, when I saw it... a large red lump on his anus. I rushed him back into the doctor, where he finally did a full rectal exam, and determined that it was, indeed, fistulas.
> 
> Now my problem is this. Aside from Prednisone and Metronidazole, they told me to keep him on a novel protein diet... not something easy to do while feeding raw.
> 
> I have not yet received my load of venison, so I plan to use that for an elimination diet for now.
> 
> But what I want to know more than anything, is if anyone else has gone through this and remained on a raw diet?
> 
> Mulder has never looked or done better than he has on raw. I don't want to switch him off, bit will if I absolutely must. Feeding a single or even limited protein diet on raw will not be easy, but I can make it work if I can figure out exactly what he can handle, and keeping that in the diet for cheap.
> 
> Really, I just need a little reassurance right now. I'm hurting very bad over this, and only want to figure out what will be best for Mulder.


My girl has PF, I would do a whole prey model. That is a novel protein, no veggies. It is a ground up animal. Like duck or goat. What they mean by novel protein is a protein that your dog doesn't eat and only one animal. My girl has problems if I switch her. Duck and goat and buffalo are good for digestion. I fed her of a duck in the morning and half at night. I got her May 2018 and she was 5 years old, and would be either constipated or what I call fire hose diaherria, after $2000.00 the vet couldnt tell me what was wrong as well as other vets. I started doing the research,tests ruled out pancretis, so I found a local vet that agreed hat it was PF and put her on Carprofen and I put her on immune herbs and tumeric forthe pain as well. Getting back to the first part, when I switch from raw that had veggies to prey model she finally pooped like a normal dog and she would normally whine from the pain and go smaller than my cats. No whining or small poops. I would hold off on big beef bones, it stops my girl up. Oh also I get Veterinary Formal spray from amazon, it is antisceptic and antifungal. It doen't mean your dog wont relaps but it helps. Facebook has a PF support site and also prey model feeding site.


atravis said:


> After a couple of weeks of hoping and praying that this was something simple, I received conformation from my vet today that I would have no such luck. Mulder has PFs.
> 
> The first time I took him into the vet, they expressed his anal glands and said that would likely fix his sudden, obsessive licking of his anus.
> 
> After a week of continued licking, I brought him back in. This time the vet expressed them, and not only were they full again, there was blood. Based on the diet I feed (raw), he didn't feel that it was allergies/PFs/IBD that was causing the issue, and instead felt that it was an infection in the glands that could be fixed with some k-laser treatments. He did the treatment, gave him a mild steroid shot, and sent him home with some zymox topical spray.
> 
> For the next couple of days, everything seemed fine. No licking. Then this morning, he started up again, at full force. I went to spray his rear with the zymox, when I saw it... a large red lump on his anus. I rushed him back into the doctor, where he finally did a full rectal exam, and determined that it was, indeed, fistulas.
> 
> Now my problem is this. Aside from Prednisone and Metronidazole, they told me to keep him on a novel protein diet... not something easy to do while feeding raw.
> 
> I have not yet received my load of venison, so I plan to use that for an elimination diet for now.
> 
> But what I want to know more than anything, is if anyone else has gone through this and remained on a raw diet?
> 
> Mulder has never looked or done better than he has on raw. I don't want to switch him off, bit will if I absolutely must. Feeding a single or even limited protein diet on raw will not be easy, but I can make it work if I can figure out exactly what he can handle, and keeping that in the diet for cheap.
> 
> Really, I just need a little reassurance right now. I'm hurting very bad over this, and only want to figure out what will be best for Mulder.





atravis said:


> After a couple of weeks of hoping and praying that this was something simple, I received conformation from my vet today that I would have no such luck. Mulder has PFs.
> 
> The first time I took him into the vet, they expressed his anal glands and said that would likely fix his sudden, obsessive licking of his anus.
> 
> After a week of continued licking, I brought him back in. This time the vet expressed them, and not only were they full again, there was blood. Based on the diet I feed (raw), he didn't feel that it was allergies/PFs/IBD that was causing the issue, and instead felt that it was an infection in the glands that could be fixed with some k-laser treatments. He did the treatment, gave him a mild steroid shot, and sent him home with some zymox topical spray.
> 
> For the next couple of days, everything seemed fine. No licking. Then this morning, he started up again, at full force. I went to spray his rear with the zymox, when I saw it... a large red lump on his anus. I rushed him back into the doctor, where he finally did a full rectal exam, and determined that it was, indeed, fistulas.
> 
> Now my problem is this. Aside from Prednisone and Metronidazole, they told me to keep him on a novel protein diet... not something easy to do while feeding raw.
> 
> I have not yet received my load of venison, so I plan to use that for an elimination diet for now.
> 
> But what I want to know more than anything, is if anyone else has gone through this and remained on a raw diet?
> 
> Mulder has never looked or done better than he has on raw. I don't want to switch him off, bit will if I absolutely must. Feeding a single or even limited protein diet on raw will not be easy, but I can make it work if I can figure out exactly what he can handle, and keeping that in the diet for cheap.
> 
> Really, I just need a little reassurance right now. I'm hurting very bad over this, and only want to figure out what will be best for Mulder.


Nhi


atravis said:


> After a couple of weeks of hoping and praying that this was something simple, I received conformation from my vet today that I would have no such luck. Mulder has PFs.
> 
> The first time I took him into the vet, they expressed his anal glands and said that would likely fix his sudden, obsessive licking of his anus.
> 
> After a week of continued licking, I brought him back in. This time the vet expressed them, and not only were they full again, there was blood. Based on the diet I feed (raw), he didn't feel that it was allergies/PFs/IBD that was causing the issue, and instead felt that it was an infection in the glands that could be fixed with some k-laser treatments. He did the treatment, gave him a mild steroid shot, and sent him home with some zymox topical spray.
> 
> For the next couple of days, everything seemed fine. No licking. Then this morning, he started up again, at full force. I went to spray his rear with the zymox, when I saw it... a large red lump on his anus. I rushed him back into the doctor, where he finally did a full rectal exam, and determined that it was, indeed, fistulas.
> 
> Now my problem is this. Aside from Prednisone and Metronidazole, they told me to keep him on a novel protein diet... not something easy to do while feeding raw.
> 
> I have not yet received my load of venison, so I plan to use that for an elimination diet for now.
> 
> But what I want to know more than anything, is if anyone else has gone through this and remained on a raw diet?
> 
> Mulder has never looked or done better than he has on raw. I don't want to switch him off, bit will if I absolutely must. Feeding a single or even limited protein diet on raw will not be easy, but I can make it work if I can figure out exactly what he can handle, and keeping that in the diet for cheap.
> 
> Really, I just need a little reassurance right now. I'm hurting very bad over this, and only want to figure out what will be best for Mulder.


 my girl has that too and I had to switch from raw with veggies to a prey model diet. Now I got her in May of 2018, she never had a normal poop she would go smaller than my cat's she would strain and wine or she would have what I call fire hose diarrhea. Vet after $2,000 could not tell me what was wrong with her and I did my research on PF. I found a vet that diagnosed her with PF. I switched her from raw with veggies to prey model. My girl Zoya finally had a normal poop! I gave her a half a duck in the morning and the other half at night. The vet put her on Carprofen and I got her immune herbs, probiotics and tumeric. Face book has a PF support group and also a prey model feeding group. I have gotten support on those sites as well as germanshepard.com. as for prey model you can find sites that have it already ground up. Duck,goat,buffalo,kangeroo,and rabbit are easy to digest, novel protein is a animal that your dog doesn't usually eat. But one source of protein, that if you dog does well on stick with. Watch the beef bones, they stop my dog up.The proteins that I have listed are good for food allergies.


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