# Will your dog protect you-put to the test



## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Found this earlier. I'm trying to find the follow up report to see what the "experts" recommend.


Beware of Dog? Hired Burglar Puts Pets to the Test | Life With Dogs


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Found the follow up, see part 2.

Beware of Dog? ‘Burglar’ Puts Local Pets To The Test | WHNT.com — Huntsville News & Weather from WHNT Television News19 HD


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Thanks for posting this, it was fun to watch - and let me say that I am NOT surprised at ALL about the results, neither was I suprised about the owner's initial assessment about how their dogs will react. Typically people do not understand that protection in genetic, aggression is genetic, and protective aggression does not come from dogs that will randomly bark at noises and strangers, but from a place of inner confidence and inner mental strength, wich usuall manifest itself in a calm, balanced, self-assured every-day demeanor.

From the very first clip of Layla, the catahoula dog, I saw nothing but fear barking in her and a retreating body language. Owners felt she was a "loose canon" and would not hesitate to attack. I think this is so typical of the average person - it does take knowledge to know how to read protective behaviour vs. fear behaviour. Wasn't surprised to see her reaction at the break in. 

I was pleasantly surprised to see Major react the way the breed was supposed to. No fear behaviour in his confident advance on the burglar. Just that is more than enough to pin someone and prevent them from doing anything else - that he did not bite shows that he was not completely confident about escalating the fight. Not that he had reason to. I would say that either he felt there was no need to escalate the fight, he was in control, or he was afraid to push and escalate the fight - shows, as mentioned in the video at the beginning, that it takes years of training to get a dog to a level where they are confident that they can bite and fight and win.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm not really surprised, but I think there's a difference between that and whether or not a dog would protect their owner. I don't know if Sasha would protect me or not, but I think she might. I would be absolutely FLOORED if she were to bite an intruder with me not there. I have no confidence she would protect my property but I'm about 80% leaning towards she would protect (or try to protect) me.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

also cool to watch, I'm not surprised at the owners responses, (the ones who's dogs did nothing when they expected them to)..So many people 'think' their dog will protect their home and selves, when most won't.

While I'm happy to see what the gsd did, I'm wondering if this little video is something that will make people say "I"M GETTING ME A GERMAN SHEPHERD" (

Masi protected me today, from a big fat frog while I was potting some plants,,I am 'petrified' of frogs (I admit it!) she sniffed him out and pushed him away, as I stood screaming like a little girl for my husband to come GET RID OF IT! LOL


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Very fun test! Asher was my favorite, grabbing his toy and running around! Now I wonder what my dogs would do... I think our dogs wouldn't let them in the door, but if they decided to come in anyways I think the dogs would be scared and run  Huh... interesting though...


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

The catahoula (mix, since they don't have upright ears) was a total fear bag and you could see it from the get go. The rottie people cracked me up and is pretty typical for most rotties I've seen in the last 2 decades, still a nice pet and not trained to protect so pretty much exactly what he should have done. 
The GSD looked more to me like he was in flight forward mode. The owner stated that he got him for this purpose and didn't socialize him in order to make him that way. I'm pretty sure he does that to everyone who comes in the house and the owner is pleased with it. Not what I'd want, but it did the trick I guess.
Of our 8 GSDs, all who have been trained to various levels in bite work, I know at least 3 of them would engage someone flat out. 1 is iffy, the 2 SL males have cornered my brother-in-law in the laundry room when he came in unannounced, but I'm pretty sure neither of them would make a bite without a family member standing there to defend. The last one is still a youngster so the jury is out on her.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I think my dogs would bark loudly initially and then roll over for some belly rubs


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

bocron said:


> Found the follow up, see part 2.
> 
> Beware of Dog? ‘Burglar’ Puts Local Pets To The Test | WHNT.com — Huntsville News & Weather from WHNT Television News19 HD


The follow up bothered me a little bit with the advice they were giving out. I'm not sure that I'll say this right, but they almost made it sound (to me), that any old dog could be easily trained to be a threat to an intruder. 

I can just see a bunch of do-it-yourselfers running with it here. They did talk about the years of training, but would've liked that emphasized more. 

I can also see this making a good number of people wanting home protection running out to find a GSD based off this. 

These things are interesting, but I can see where they could cause more harm than good.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Interesting news story. I felt bad for that LEO K9, that choke collar made my neck hurt!

My feeling on it is I'd hate to have my dogs tested by the real deal, because anyone entering my home, hearing three GSD's barking will surely have a gun and shoot them(if they really wanted in). 
If we weren't at home and the dogs were left to their own choice, I have no doubt, anyone my dogs don't know will be bitten( 2~probably out of fear, but they will do it) 

Karlo would do a H&B but get frustrated if the person didn't engage him, and then bite just to bite for the fun of it. Or if that person moved just a bit, of course w/ his training that is a reason to engage. 
If we were home, they would defer to us, and someone entering an occupied house must be ready for a fight...scary. 

I'd rather someone just take the stuff and leave the dogs safe and alive.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

chelle said:


> The follow up bothered me a little bit with the advice they were giving out.


I was kind of baffled by that, too. I mean it said have your dog wear a protection collar (like most people have any idea what that is much less where to find one ). In my experience the protection collar only becomes a protection collar once the dog has done some protection work LOL. Meaning, I could go put one on my neighbors dog right now and I'm pretty sure the only thing it would do is annoy the dog. The dog doesn't recognize it as an indication of protection work until you've worked them enough to anticipate it. For many dogs a specific collar or harness or even bag becomes a signal that protection work is about to begin and then when you put that collar on them they get jazzed.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

One question that I would have - What would you want your dog to do with a stranger coming into your house? 

And would it make a difference if it were at night? How about if no one of the family were at home?


How about the age of the intruder?



A friend had a 12 yo boy just walk into their house via the front door one afternoon. (Trying to get to a birthday party 2 houses down!)

Their male GSD rushed barking at him but she was able to grab his collar so really never did find out what the dog might have done. (I am not sure as he sometimes seems a little FA).


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

That's why I like the hold and bark. I have had 2 or 3 occasions in the past few years where people walked in unannounced. One was my brother in law, who isn't really a dog person and while family is not someone the dogs have had much social time with(almost none). I was in my office and heard a commotion and walked in to find the 2 males that were in the house with me at the moment had him cornered against the door he'd just come in. I told them to Aus and to chill and then they were just fine with him. He apologized for just walking in, forgetting that they would be there. Both dogs were absolutely fine with him and were getting ear scratches from him within minutes.
Another instance is like you described, a friend of my daughter, who had spent the night was in the house. She had gotten dropped off late the night before and the dogs didn't really get a chance to greet her. The next morning the girls got up early to go run and the friend realized she'd left her iPod in the house and came back in to get it. My husband had just let his 2 in the house from a potty break and she walked in just as he was leaving the room. Once again, both parked in front of her and barked. He was only about 10 feet away (he'd also forgotten she was being dropped off the night before) and while startled himself, told the dogs to aus and all was well. This girl is a fairly frequent visitor, so it was kind of a half effort since they are pretty familiar with her. Once hubby told them to aus and said, chill guys it's Sam, they were all happy to see her and seemed relieved that she hadn't suddenly become a bad guy. 
Most people will automatically freeze up. If a guy(like in the video) continued in and had to push his way past the dogs, then that's another story.


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## SDChicken (May 6, 2012)

That was fun to watch. I have no protection training experience but I didn't think any would actually bite. Although if one did I had my bets on the little yappers haha. But then again I'm a bit prejudice to seeing them as little Paranas. 

Personally I look for my dog to alert me, bark, if I'm home. I'd also hope that he would if I wasn't home in hopes of deterring someone. But if the person insisted on coming in, even with dog/s, I'd assume they had some malicious intentions. At that point my guns would come out. I know, with Meatloaf, he wouldn't engage an intruder. He'd take off and run, might even be befriended if given the option. Now if he was cornered and they kept coming at him he'd probably bite out of fear.

I have to admit though, with my daughters bedroom at the other end of the house, I'd feel more comfortable with a dog that would be willing to hold an intruder. I would hope that would stall the intruder long enough for my husband or I to get there.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

*yawn* I thought the test was silly & the advice bullet points poor.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

judging from the way the professional dog was handled, I wouldnt' call anyone a professional  I didn't watch part 2 I wasn't all too thrilled with one.

People don't avoid houses with dogs because they're afraid to get bitten. They avoid them because they usually make noise and noise attracts attention. Either from someone in the house, or neighbors.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

bocron said:


> That's why I like the hold and bark. I have had 2 or 3 occasions in the past few years where people walked in unannounced. One was my brother in law, who isn't really a dog person and while family is not someone the dogs have had much social time with(almost none). I was in my office and heard a commotion and walked in to find the 2 males that were in the house with me at the moment had him cornered against the door he'd just come in. I told them to Aus and to chill and then they were just fine with him. He apologized for just walking in, forgetting that they would be there. Both dogs were absolutely fine with him and were getting ear scratches from him within minutes.


That's interesting because this is what my Golden (who was not trained to do a 'hold and bark' or anything like that) used to do when people came in uninvited. Well, not the 'cornering' part, but she blocked their access to the rest of the house, stood her ground and barked at the "intruder" until I came and told her it was ok. 
Now, my Golden was the friendliest dog you could meet, she was very outgoing, solid temperament, loved people, not fearful or one big aggressive (very well obedience trained and also a therapy dog.) Normally if someone came over her tail would be going a mile and minute and she'd be greeting them happily.
The people who came in without being invited were not strangers although they were people she didn't see very often. One was my uncle, we knew he was coming over and so he came in without knocking. I heard barking so I came to see, he was standing inside the doorway and Ginger was standing in front of the entrance that led from the foyer to the living room, blocking him from going further into the house and barking. As soon as I greeted my uncle Ginger immediately switched to her typical happy greeting of people who come to visit. The other time was basically the same thing, my brother had come over with a friend but his friend was a little behind him so my brother came in about 2 minutes before his friend then came in after without knocking, and Ginger did the exact same thing.
So I would assume she'd have done the same if a stranger came in alone without another person. If they kept advancing I am not sure what she would have done although I am sure it would not be to run and hide like most of the dogs in the video, I could see those dogs were fearful whereas she had a very solid and confident temperament. 
Knowing Ginger though it's hard for me to imagine she'd actually bite someone although she did do a pretty good alert both in the situations I mentioned here, and she also "protected" me from people behaving suspiciously while we were out and about several times, again by standing in front of me, holding her ground and barking until they retreated. I don't just mean people acting goofy or something like that, but more like a menacing and suspicious type of behavior from a stranger.
As she was a therapy dog in a physical rehab institute we often worked with people with brain damage or other injuries that may cause them to behave strangely so it was not just someone acting odd, as she was used to people behaving in different/unusual ways like that, this was different.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Masi protected me today, from a big fat frog while I was potting some plants,,I am 'petrified' of frogs (I admit it!) she sniffed him out and pushed him away, as I stood screaming like a little girl for my husband to come GET RID OF IT! LOL


Diane! A frog? :spittingcoffee:


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> My feeling on it is I'd hate to have my dogs tested by the real deal, because anyone entering my home, hearing three GSD's barking will surely have a gun and shoot them(if they really wanted in).


I agree. If someone is that determined to get into your home they will have already prepared for the dogs. Recently someone in the town next to ours had their home burglarized and the burglars shot and killed both the dogs. 

I would prefer my dogs to be a visual and auditory deterrent rather than actually having to go head to head with an invader. I am home with the dogs most of the time, thus if someone invades, then I will be here as well. I'm sure that they will be much more protective defending me rather than the house. I've watched Angus bite and attempt to take down a 3,000+lb steer that was charging, to defend me, and I don't know what Freyja would do as she's never been in a situation where she would feel that she needed to protect me. Personally, I'd be more afraid of her than Angus.

Further, both dogs would have me and a pump 12 gauge as a backup. My dogs are my children, and God help the person who ever hurts them.

Our best defense would be the cat. She'd come out of nowhere and wind around their ankles until they fell down a flight of stairs.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

That was an interesting watch...

I find it so strange that people (including the media in this case) desire a dog to bite the **** out of someone walking into their home while they're away... I'm not sure what kind of power this gives people? I personally don't think a dog would slow someone down if they actually wanted to rob you, unless it was a bite straight from the doorway... and I wouldn't want my dog put in that position ever for fear of what would happen to him... I'm quite content with my dog NOT biting people when they walk into my house unannounced. :wild:


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I would expect my dogs to go insane with reactivity if a stranger tried to break into my house....which they do. When the meter reader comes on my property and gets out of his truck and walks across the yard to read my propane tank, my entire neighborhood knows. 

But not one of my dogs puts on his Super Hero tights and sails across the hot wired fence, or breaks out of a kennel and busts down the door to get to the 'stranger'. 

If someone breaks into my home while I'm away - not one dog could get to them, super hero tights or not. But honestly, it wouldn't be the dogs the thugs need to worry about. My neighbors take home defense pretty seriously. 

If I'm home? My dogs would just be a diversion.

People, the idea of having a dog in the house as PART of home security is so the dog makes enough racket to alert the neighbors. Like a car alarm. A car alarm doesn't jump out of the car and rip off the thug's face. A thug likes an easy target. The idea is to not be an easy target. Not to outfit your dogs in Super Hero tights.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jax would bark and corner. I watched her do it one day when DH's cousin came in from the basement stairs. Laid down and ignored him once I called her to me. Banshee would all out attack. No doubt about that. The mailman wouldn't even come to our door for years. Sierra would probably get all bent out of shape and attack Jax leaving poor toothless Banshee to protect the TV and Computer.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When I was younger and less intelligent, I would agree to the most stupid things. Like, for instance, "could you stop by my house on the way home and let the dog out?" This is how I got a number of the bites that I have accumulated over the years. 

But it wasn't from big bad German Shepherd Dogs, or Rottweilers, or Doberman Pinschers, Chows, or even Pit bulls, it was these little miniature schnauzers, or adorable mixes under 20 pounds. These are the ones that would bite me every stinking time. Maybe the big, formidable dogs would bite me too, if I did not know them and I walked into their home. But, maybe people with big formidable dogs make arrangements for their dogs instead of expecting a young stupid stranger to take a bite for the good of the dogs. 

Do I want them to bite someone if the walk unannounced into my home? No. Not really. Will they? I really don't know. I think the people who know me, know not to walk unannounced into my door. The people who do not know me can see the giant paw print on the door that says, "you might get in, but you won't get out" and might pause and reconsider.


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## SDChicken (May 6, 2012)

Lilie said:


> But not one of my dogs puts on his Super Hero tights and sails across the hot wired fence, or breaks out of a kennel and busts down the door to get to the 'stranger'.
> 
> If I'm home? My dogs would just be a diversion.
> 
> People, the idea of having a dog in the house as PART of home security is so the dog makes enough racket to alert the neighbors. Like a car alarm. A car alarm doesn't jump out of the car and rip off the thug's face. A thug likes an easy target. The idea is to not be an easy target. Not to outfit your dogs in Super Hero tights.


The mental image of a dog sporting Super Hero tights nearly made me :spittingcoffee: Haha

Honestly my greatest alarm/deterrent was my mare and the pyr we use to have. Those two together had, on multiple occasions, stopped people from coming onto our property we had at the time. Also giving me enough time, when the husband was deployed, to get the shot gun out when they persisted. I feel much safer having that "heads up".


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Yeah, if we are at home, ours just sound the alarm and go back and forth between us and the door. We get laughing when the chinese or pizza delivery guy shows up, they know most of the dogs by name and always ask where Sergeant is. (he's the little Lancashire Heeler and when they ask I usually point under their feet cuz there he waits). Although in those cases I think they've figured out these guys are bringing food!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

If we had Zena here with us, even after her stroke, she's still a pretty scary snarling beast when she wants to be. She's proven several times she'll corner someone chomp. I ALWAYS felt 10 times safer with her around. Riley is a follower. Whatever Zena did, he would do except for the biting. He would lunge and snarl and act big and bad but he's a chicken. Normally he alerts to just about everything so I dont usually trust his judgement. Shasta, well unless the burglar has a dog of their own coming in with him, she doesnt react. She will bark/howl up a storm like nobodies business but thats the only thing that gets her going. 

Just the other night someone was in my backyard, which is 5 foot privacy fence with the gate locked so they'd have to jump the fence, trying to get in my backdoor. My husband has been gone since friday for a deployment and family circumstances back home. the neighbors ankle biters ALWAYS bark when they're outside so beyond being thoroughly annoyed with the little demons, i try to ignore them. They were carrying on like usual, Riley was growling from under out dining table and Shasta was staring curiously at the door when the handle starting jiggling. I was standing there on the phone with the sheriff's department with my baseball bat in hand. Whoever had been out there had smashed my porch light so it was useless. We live in base housing so i was pretty surprised someone was trying to get in. I dont know if they caught the person because the door knob stopped jiggling just when the sheriff pulled up. So Riley hiding under the table growling and Shasta just staring at the door waggin her tail.... nope. Not real great alert dogs if i were asleep.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Cedar would bark and try to stand her ground, but if someone continued towards her, she would run and hide. ****, she runs and hides from me if I startle her when the house is dark. She has weak nerves, although I do believe she would bite out of fear if it came down to it. 

I absolutely believe Titan, who is only 7 months, would stand his ground until the very end. He's already 80 lbs or so and is absolutely fearless. While I can't see him biting someone, I absolutely can't see him retreating. 

A few weeks ago I came home late at night. The dogs must have heard something as they came towards the door, but I don't think they were sure what they heard as normally they bark if they hear the door, but they didn't this time. I rounded the corner and startled both of them. Cedar bolted and ran behind the couch, Titan put his hackles up, started hopping on his front feet and barking very aggressively. He also approached me quite quickly. I actually thought for a minute he might bite me, but then he heard my voice and stopped. He appeared ready for a fight though. He's a very confident dog.


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## rshkr (Feb 9, 2012)

SDChicken said:


> Also giving me enough timeto get the shot gun out when they persisted.


the best home defense weapon is a pistol for clearing tight corners or in hallways, since with a rifle/shotg8un everytime you make a turn the rifle/shotgun is always ahead of you, so when you make a turn, the perp can just grab the barrel down dislodging the butt from your shoulder.
with a pistol, clearing tight corners isnt as cumbersome, you hold the the pistol close to your chest with both hands forming a triangle, it is called an "isosceles stance" this stance enables you to pivot 180degrees to the left or to the right compared to a "weaver stance" .

with that said, for protection, i dont need time to get my gun if somebody jumps on the window. i have a gun under my favaorite chair while watching tv, i have a gun on top of the fridge in the kitchen, i have a gun under my workbench in the garage, and another gun on my bedroom, on the floor near the bed. they are all .45 because they dont make a .46 using corbon rounds. they ar epalced this way so i dotn have to run to my bedroom (if i'm in the garage or the kitchen) to get a gun.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm not suprised at all by the results. With my dogs, they would have zero chance of "winning over" my male, and he'd show some very strong aggression, but I'm unsure he'd actually bite. On her own, my female might be able to be made friends with, but with my male raising ****, she'd be just as aggressive. And she would bite.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

rshkr said:


> the best home defense weapon is a pistol for clearing tight corners or in hallways, since with a rifle/shotg8un everytime you make a turn the rifle/shotgun is always ahead of you, so when you make a turn, the perp can just grab the barrel down dislodging the butt from your shoulder.
> with a pistol, clearing tight corners isnt as cumbersome, you hold the the pistol close to your chest with both hands forming a triangle, it is called an "isosceles stance" this stance enables you to pivot 180degrees to the left or to the right compared to a "weaver stance" .
> 
> with that said, for protection, i dont need time to get my gun if somebody jumps on the window. i have a gun under my favaorite chair while watching tv, i have a gun on top of the fridge in the kitchen, i have a gun under my workbench in the garage, and another gun on my bedroom, on the floor near the bed. they are all .45 because they dont make a .46 using corbon rounds. they ar epalced this way so i dotn have to run to my bedroom (if i'm in the garage or the kitchen) to get a gun.


Thats why you use a carbine


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

My poodle is a great watch dog, her favourite perch is sitting on the back of the couch so she can look out the window. I actually have to keep the front blind shut while I'm not home so she doesn't bark when I'm not there, I don't like taking her to my sisters condo because she barks every time she hears someone walk down the hall

She'll bark like mad and charge with teeth bared on people she doesn't know coming on my property if she's not on leash, she has great recall and she'll bark once more then come back to me and keep a eye on the person. She submits and trusts me to watch over the people but she's there as backup  She's only around 11 lbs but I've had several people (mostly sales people  and no complaining there) back off. She will go nuts with greeting people she knows and loves them to excess. 

Delgado on the other hand, has no interest in people walking in and out of the door. He hasn't alarm barked once, he'll come to investigate when Jazzy barks but comes to greet the person. I'm actually a little disappointed, but he's only four months so he may change once the hormones start kicking in lol He's still got that silly puppy mind

I figure between Jazzy's barking and Delgado's appearance anyone looking in the window will think twice (or at least I hope so)


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I am relatively sure that Nadia would protect the house because she does not like strangers at all. Zisso would merely follow suit. 

That said I have had pretty much everything backwards about my two dogs to date so maybe I have this backwards too. 

Either way, I have no doubt that a burglar would not get out in the same condition he entered.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I am not sure what Luka would do--probably a hold & bark. If the perp had a tennis ball with him, all bets are off.

Vinca has shown her mettle with strangers (especially strange men); she will readily engage a intruder and I have no doubt that she would bite if pressured to do so.

Whaley would bark, then run away barking, and continue to bark while keeping a distance. I don't know what it would take to make him bite a human. But don't tell anyone--a dog his size makes an intimidating scene when barking behind a fence!


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## SDChicken (May 6, 2012)

rshkr said:


> the best home defense weapon is a pistol for clearing tight corners or in hallways, since with a rifle/shotg8un everytime you make a turn the rifle/shotgun is always ahead of you, so when you make a turn, the perp can just grab the barrel down dislodging the butt from your shoulder.
> with a pistol, clearing tight corners isnt as cumbersome, you hold the the pistol close to your chest with both hands forming a triangle, it is called an "isosceles stance" this stance enables you to pivot 180degrees to the left or to the right compared to a "weaver stance" .
> 
> with that said, for protection, i dont need time to get my gun if somebody jumps on the window. i have a gun under my favaorite chair while watching tv, i have a gun on top of the fridge in the kitchen, i have a gun under my workbench in the garage, and another gun on my bedroom, on the floor near the bed. they are all .45 because they dont make a .46 using corbon rounds. they ar epalced this way so i dotn have to run to my bedroom (if i'm in the garage or the kitchen) to get a gun.


Oh I agree. But at the time that was all I had Haha. I'm hoping I get the hand gun I want for our anniversary.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

rshkr said:


> the best home defense weapon is a pistol for clearing tight corners or in hallways, since with a rifle/shotg8un everytime you make a turn the rifle/shotgun is always ahead of you, so when you make a turn, the perp can just grab the barrel down dislodging the butt from your shoulder.
> with a pistol, clearing tight corners isnt as cumbersome, you hold the the pistol close to your chest with both hands forming a triangle, it is called an "isosceles stance" this stance enables you to pivot 180degrees to the left or to the right compared to a "weaver stance" .


I would agree with this, if the person holding the weapon is well versed in firearms. However, if not (IMO) the shot gun would be the best weapon to use for home defense. As all you have to do is point it at the intruder and fire. You don't have to be concerned with your ability to aim, or if (under the circumstances) you aren't capable of controlled fire. 

In such a case, the person would not actively pursue the intruder and would more or less hold their ground in defense. 

With any firearm, the person who has decided to arm themself, should be well versed in the weapon they chose. But in the event they aren't, IMO, the shotgun would be the best choice.


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## Kovacik76 (Jun 15, 2010)

Does anyone else wonder why the trained k9 was on a choke chain? 
When I worked agitation for bite work, we would always hook up to their harness or 1.25" flat collar. No pinch collar or choker would be on the dog. 
Bocron when you mentioned "protection collar" were you referring to the heavy duty 1.25" an 2" wide flat collars?


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

yes mine will i have put tests on mine tho and mine had some green training before i got her from eurosport 

also i am currently training mine in personal protection she loves it, shes naturally a very civil dog though the trainer said the first day of training she was the type that would bite for real with no training, Joseff from eurosport tested her before i got her and said the samething. I still train her because she has a blast though and it tires her out and keeps her calm and gives control. When a person goes after my dog with no equipment and trys to fight her she will lung and try to grab what she can doesnt matter what it is thats why decoy hate to do it with her cause if they get too close she will get them. THey only do it on a tie out though. She was not TRAINEd for that though she had that in her to fight when pressed. Training boots her courage and gives control and more skills in bite work. When her switch is off shes a good dog nice calm and safe in public.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

also if some dogs dont defend from a person stealing stuff they might defend their handler if their handler is attacked a lot of dog seem to grow a pair when they have their handler to back them up IF their handler has a lot of self worth the dog feeds off them it seems? THey have a strong bond with their handler also. 

SO i personally would not lump a dog protecting its turf to protecting its handler JMHO My personal dog has very high territorial aggression but a lot of dogs don't and still can protect their handlers.


did you see the size of the jacket the cop was using? it was huge puffy bite suit , the one we use protection is the thinner one that looks more real like a winter jacket.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I wish I could hire someone to break into our house just to see what Chrono would do. I don't think he would bite. I don't even think he would bark if we weren't home, since he would probably assume it was us coming home and not feel the need to bark. Most likely he would just growl and stay away from the person while watching them.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

personal protection trainers will test your dog for free to see if your dog has the correct drives and where your dog is at as far as training goes


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

pets4life said:


> personal protection trainers will test your dog for free to see if your dog has the correct drives and where your dog is at as far as training goes


I think they might only test my dog if I was interested in pursuing personal protection training if my dog turned out to be a suitable candidate. I'm not sure they would waste their time for the sake of appeasing my curiosity unless their fee was ginormous.


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## rshkr (Feb 9, 2012)

SDChicken said:


> Oh I agree. But at the time that was all I had Haha. I'm hoping I get the hand gun I want for our anniversary.


if you're getting a handgun, i would highly and strongly encourage you to go IDPA. This is a real live fire competition, depending where you are, ranges offer this competition 1 mo. if you go to 4 different ranges, then you can shoot 4x a month. IDPA is designed as a real life live fire scenario. it teaches you to shoot on cover, teaches you how to draw your concealed weapon with the least amount of action, target acquisition, target transition, double taps, triple taps, shooting tactical sequence.

if you own a gun, might as well know how to use it better than the ordinary gun owner. when you become an IDPA "sharpshooter class" _( class starts with novice, marksman, sharpshooter, expert, master, grandmaster ), _you'll soon find urself shooting on muscle memory rather than thinking. you can reload ur weapon with your eyes close, you can hit a target at 10 yards in less than 2 secs with 6 rounds.

go to idpa.com for more info when you decide to get the gun.



Lilie said:


> I would agree with this, if the person holding the weapon is well versed in firearms. However, if not (IMO) the shot gun would be the best weapon to use for home defense. As all you have to do is point it at the intruder and fire. You don't have to be concerned with your ability to aim, or if (under the circumstances) you aren't capable of controlled fire.
> 
> In such a case, the person would not actively pursue the intruder and would more or less hold their ground in defense.
> 
> With any firearm, the person who has decided to arm themself, should be well versed in the weapon they chose. But in the event they aren't, IMO, the shotgun would be the best choice.


they already made a handgun that shoot shotgun ammo, "taurus judge". so aiming isnt a problem, less recoil than the shotgun too.
i believe this gun was marketed towawrds women for personal defense.
http://mcb-homis.com/judge/


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## Beau (Feb 12, 2012)

Lilie said:


> I would agree with this, if the person holding the weapon is well versed in firearms. However, if not (IMO) the shot gun would be the best weapon to use for home defense. As all you have to do is point it at the intruder and fire. You don't have to be concerned with your ability to aim, or if (under the circumstances) you aren't capable of controlled fire.
> 
> In such a case, the person would not actively pursue the intruder and would more or less hold their ground in defense.
> 
> With any firearm, the person who has decided to arm themself, should be well versed in the weapon they chose. But in the event they aren't, IMO, the shotgun would be the best choice.



Great post! (We need a smiley face that claps enthusiastically.)


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

rshkr said:


> they already made a handgun that shoot shotgun ammo, "taurus judge". so aiming isnt a problem, less recoil than the shotgun too.
> i believe this gun was marketed towawrds women for personal defense.
> Testing the Taurus Judge with 410 ammunition


With the Judge handgun you can utilize 410 shotgun shell or a 45 long colt. Speaking from experiance (and as a woman) it carries a heck of a punch. With your wrists taking much of the recoil. I don't believe it was made for a 'woman', however the 'Curcuit Judge' is being marketed towards women as it is a rifle and easier to recover as the impact isn't focused on your wrists. Again - that is pretty much my opinion on the impact when the weapon is fired. 

As a woman, I do prefer to use a handgun. However, my husband and I practice often and I am comfortable with my choice of weapon. For my daughter - who is 5'1 - we've provided her with a shotgun that is easy for her to handle. Again, she is comfortable with the weapon. 

Most importantly, my daughter has a Beagle - who is extremely vocal and very annoying! NOBODY will ever be able to sneak up on her with out her entire town knowing!


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

in canada no one really has guns for self protection i think we would go to prison for using one in defense even


a taser sounds much better choice but even that is not legal


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## SDChicken (May 6, 2012)

rshkr said:


> if you're getting a handgun, i would highly and strongly encourage you to go IDPA. This is a real live fire competition, depending where you are, ranges offer this competition 1 mo. if you go to 4 different ranges, then you can shoot 4x a month. IDPA is designed as a real life live fire scenario. it teaches you to shoot on cover, teaches you how to draw your concealed weapon with the least amount of action, target acquisition, target transition, double taps, triple taps, shooting tactical sequence.
> 
> if you own a gun, might as well know how to use it better than the ordinary gun owner. when you become an IDPA "sharpshooter class" _( class starts with novice, marksman, sharpshooter, expert, master, grandmaster ), _you'll soon find urself shooting on muscle memory rather than thinking. you can reload ur weapon with your eyes close, you can hit a target at 10 yards in less than 2 secs with 6 rounds.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that link. Sounds like it would be a good and fun thing to do. I personally have more experience with shotguns and rifles. I defiantly feel more comfortable with them. Granted the hand guns I've shot I felt were way too big for my hands. I never felt I had a good secure grip on them so I stuck with the rifle and shot gun. I seriously have itty bitty hands. The kids section is where I go to buy gloves. Haha I think my husband and I would both enjoy going through a class/program like that.


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## JPF (Feb 5, 2011)

pets4life said:


> in canada no one really has guns for self protection i think we would go to prison for using one in defense even
> 
> 
> a taser sounds much better choice but even that is not legal


I live in the US and a lot of people sound either hyper paranoid or all live in terrible neighborhoods.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

I remember when I first got Nara and was taking her to the dog park in VA, I met a nice old lady who told me she used to have a GSD. She said she lived on a road where 18 houses got burlarized (I would've moved to a nicer neighborhood!). The only house that was not hit was hers, because she had a GSD inside. I thought it was kinda cool. Now I make sure people know we have a GSD in our house. We "patrol" the neighborhood so everyone around us and their visiting friends connect the dots, and we have the "GSD on Guard" sign posted as an extra deterrent. It's honestly there more as a promote-the-breed sign, or a brag that I'm so in love and proud of my GSD, versus a scary attack dog on the premises sign. However, after reading all of the threads about lawsuits stemming from attack dog signs, I figured this is one of the safer ones that doesn't admit to much other than there's a GSD in the house and/or yard.










When people (mail lady, friends, solicitors) approach our house, it's hit or miss whether Nara alerts us with a bark. If the windows are open and she hears another dog, she goes bonkers. We are working with her on this. We only want her to alert to a threat, and not just bark because of squirrels, etc. 

Now, if someone were actually going to come into our house, she would definitely bark and let us know. I wouldn't expect her to attack them. I just want her to alert us so we can grab one of our guns and defend our children. She is my "early warning system." I know it is my job to guard her, NOT the other way around. Yes, I got her because her breed is known to be a good guard dog, but I know a lot more now than I did back then. Nara is my first dog.

I was going to get her involved in schutzhund until I found out that most K9 search and rescue groups won't allow a dog that has a history of bite work. SAR was more important to me than schutzhund, so I steered clear of that sport. 

Recently I was biking Nara near our house and an off lead yellow lab ran up on us from behind (we've had problems with this dog before). I didn't see or hear it coming, but NARA DID, and she literally dragged me off my bike to defend us as this dog attacked her. She mounted it and got multiple bites in before I could recover and get a hold of her. She was attached to my waist on lead, but I brought her in close and put my body between hers and the attacking dog. The dog kept lunging in, and I had to kick it and punch it in the head before it ran off. About 5 minutes later, the owner appeared, with his usual "it's OK, he's friendly and just wants to play!" I cursed him out, as this was the 5th or 6th time he's allowed his dog to run off leash and run up on us in the 3 years we've lived here. I had to control myself to keep from an assault charge. He started battling back in a war of words, so I let him know I was going to report him to the authorities. I haven't seen him since. I hope to never see him or his dog again.

Nara has certainly protected us when it comes to loose dogs. Only once can I remember her actually growling at a human. We were on a walk with my young daughter walking beside me, and two men walked past us. Nara did not growl at the first man as he passed, but as the second man passed a little too close to our daughter, Nara growled and let him know she was watching. I couldn't believe it. I had never ever heard her growl before, and (other than at dogs) have never heard her growl since. I've read that dogs can tell a "good human" from a "bad human." Not sure how true this is, but if it is true, that guy might've been a bad one. I would've never known, but Nara did. Haha!


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## Alishan86 (Oct 30, 2011)

Geat video !... but watch this video....


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Alishan86 said:


> Geat video !... but watch this video....
> 
> Will an untrained dog protect it's owner? www.BobsDogs.com - YouTube


 
Cute kid and an entertaining video but that is it. If the dog is truly trained in protection (as opposed to ScH) why the heck are they using a sleeve? Not a good demo - for true protection, I want my dog to bite EVERYWHERE not to attack a padded sleeve. A dog would get dead very quickly that way!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

counter said:


> I remember when I first got Nara and was taking her to the dog park in VA, I met a nice old lady who told me she used to have a GSD. She said she lived on a road where 18 houses got burlarized (I would've moved to a nicer neighborhood!). The only house that was not hit was hers, because she had a GSD inside. I thought it was kinda cool. Now I make sure people know we have a GSD in our house. We "patrol" the neighborhood so everyone around us and their visiting friends connect the dots, and we have the "GSD on Guard" sign posted as an extra deterrent. It's honestly there more as a promote-the-breed sign, or a brag that I'm so in love and proud of my GSD, versus a scary attack dog on the premises sign. However, after reading all of the threads about lawsuits stemming from attack dog signs, I figured this is one of the safer ones that doesn't admit to much other than there's a GSD in the house and/or yard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Why not just show that owner the bite marks on your dog (or on his dogz) to prove the dog was not just "playing"? If there were no bite marks, maybe they were playing?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

My "untrained GSD (and a BYB special at that) did protect me three times in the 5.5 years that she lived.

Once she grabbed my very large uncle by the wrist aND HELD HIM WHEN HE THREW OPEN THE DOOF RIGHT BEHIND MY CHAIR WHEN i WAS SITTING IN THE KITCHEN. hELD HIM WITHOUT CHOMPING DOWN FORTUNATELY UNTIL WE COULD CONVINCE HER THAT HE WAS OK.

Once she walked in front of me and stood there softly growling at a very irate parent who was very drunk and very upset at me for calling his son out to end a Little league baseball game and thought that he was going to cause me some physical harm till she walked over right between us and sttod there staring and growling at him. As drunk as he was he did fortunately reconsider and slowly walked away. He also had a very large bottle of beer in his hand as he walked over to us. no question if he took another step or two what was going to happen! Never have I heard a dog demonstrating such a threatening sounding growl as she did that night.

And third when she defended us from a pair of dogs one night when I had her and my toddler son out at the deserted compost dump in a little town in Delaware. We were out there loading compostinto a couple of large trash buckets when I heard a comotion and turned to see two large non descript dogs running at us where me and my son stood next to our van. before i could even react she engaged with one of them and they went down in a whirl of fighting dogs and I smacked the other one with the shovel I was fortunately holding. that one was out of the action and ran off and i went to see where Princess was as they had dissappeared around the van. Still fighting so i smacked her opponent with the same shovel and it too got discouraged and we were alone. She had a couple of bite marks but nothing too serious.

So hopefully no one will try to tell me that NO untrained dog will protect their families. Some of them will!


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## Todd (Sep 6, 2004)

codmaster said:


> Cute kid and an entertaining video but that is it. If the dog is truly trained in protection (as opposed to ScH) why the heck are they using a sleeve? Not a good demo - for true protection, I want my dog to bite EVERYWHERE not to attack a padded sleeve. A dog would get dead very quickly that way!


Agree completely. I saw that video awhile back and thought it was completely misleading.

Heidi would protect me and did. It wasn't some artifical set up. If I was scared of something she went after it. It happened twice in the seven years I had here. Guy tried to get into my hotel room (he might have been drunk and off by a room or two for all I know). However, Heidi sensed I was scared and reacted, slammed up against the door on her back paws and barked like crazy. One other time, two rotties were loose. I was scared for her more than me, but she reacted anyhow and they decided after stalking us for awhile (circling around us), that I guess we weren't worth the effort given the back and forth barking she was doing.

Abby? No idea. She is significantly less dominant than Heidi. However, one night the wind blew something over outside the house. When I flinched at the noise, she started barking. That was the first and only time she reacted to me in the year I've had her...we live a pretty quiet life, so there hasn't been that many opportunities for her to prove herself. Neither her or Heidi barked at the door or anything else. I used to joke, that if Heidi started barking, I picked up a gun...like the other post, I have several laying around the house.

In another scenario however, someone could break into my house and take everything I own and I don't think either one of them would lift a paw to stop them...Heidi was completely about me. Abby? Hope I never find out...


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

lol that video is a joke those dogs that are protecting dont even seem like protection dogs the ones biting the padding, i dont think they would put a real civil protection dog with some stranger girl it doesnt know anyway, and then give it its on command. 


Also who are these dogs suppose to protect? themselves? the girl is just a stranger. 


and the other german shepherds were scared and very submissive


i think the video was just meant to be a funny little girl school project and they used extra safe dogs.

ANd you want your dog to give a very strong full mouth grip, not a few loose bites, dogs can be trained to re bite if they are hit, but that isnt needed usually because one really strong bite from a good dog will put the person into shock.Specially when it starts shaking and pulling and things start to crunch lol


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

codmaster said:


> Why not just show that owner the bite marks on your dog (or on his dogz) to prove the dog was not just "playing"? If there were no bite marks, maybe they were playing?


I was able to break them up, restrain Nara, and fight off that other dog before they were able to leave bite marks on each other. I just got home from biking my dogs tonight, and I saw the security guard who protects the area where we go daily, so I was able to report the guy and his dog. I let security know that I don't want one unruly dog/owner to ruin it for all of the other responsible dog owners who use the area. He agreed, and told me he would pass on the description of the man and dog to his fellow guards, so if any of them see him allowing his dog to run off lead, they will confront him. Finally!...progress!!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

counter said:


> *I was able to break them up, restrain Nara, and fight off that other dog before they were able to leave bite marks on each other. *I just got home from biking my dogs tonight, and I saw the security guard who protects the area where we go daily, so I was able to report the guy and his dog. I let security know that I don't want one unruly dog/owner to ruin it for all of the other responsible dog owners who use the area. He agreed, and told me he would pass on the description of the man and dog to his fellow guards, so if any of them see him allowing his dog to run off lead, they will confront him. Finally!...progress!!


Wow! You are a lot faster and better at dog fights than I am! How did you break up the fight? And also at the same time restrain your own dog and make the attacking dog just go away.

If I didn't have a leash on my own male GSD there is NO way in heck that I could get between him and an attacker, I don't believe (not nearly fast enough!) . Guess I just have to work on his obedience some more.

Wonder how many folks could give their dog a command to break up a dog fight or for that matter how do you get the OTHER dog to stop?


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## sirius (Dec 15, 2010)

Wow, it just deleted all of the paragraphs I just wrote.

Considering it's almost five in the morning, I'll just sum it up, yes, they probably would.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

codmaster said:


> Wow! You are a lot faster and better at dog fights than I am! How did you break up the fight? And also at the same time restrain your own dog and make the attacking dog just go away.
> 
> If I didn't have a leash on my own male GSD there is NO way in heck that I could get between him and an attacker, I don't believe (not nearly fast enough!) . Guess I just have to work on his obedience some more.
> 
> Wonder how many folks could give their dog a command to break up a dog fight or for that matter how do you get the OTHER dog to stop?


Yeah, the dog ran up on us from behind. Nara was on a lead attached to my waist. She dragged me off my bike to defend me and attack the imcoming dog who attacked her. I ran over to them, grabbed Nara, stuck her up against my left thigh, then punched and kicked the lunging dog until it ran back to its owner. I've read on here so many times that you are supposed to guard your dog and let it know that you're the one in control of EVERY situation, instead of letting them guard you. I did what I could as quickly as I could, and it worked. I appreciate that Nara wants to defend me, but I need her to know that I will take care of the situation and will call on her when necessary. This time though, I didn't see it coming, so I was happy she took control until I could intervene. It reminds me of that Old Yeller scene with the bear. Haha!


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

i know my lab for sure would attack. My boyfriend hid in all camo in the back yard once in a bush and i walked out with the dogs and they were fine untill they smelled something and my lab ran at the bush barking and jumped and bit his arm and my GSD was right behind her all puffed up. They arent scared!


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

rshkr said:


> you'll soon find urself shooting on muscle memory rather than thinking. you can reload ur weapon with your eyes close, you can hit a target at 10 yards in less than 2 secs with 6 rounds.
> Testing the Taurus Judge with 410 ammunition


Thats why I use an m4 style ar15... not b/c its the ideal weapon for the job, but its all second nature to load/reload, clear a jam, and worst case just use it in melee combat.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I don't know. All I do know is that Yukon will attack when you chase me, when driven into a corner (defense) and when you really threaten him and he feels threatened. 

With the girls, I have NO idea how they react. They might have bitten just because they know the suit. 

I do know the difference between "there is a dog walking by" bark, "I saw something and I'm not sure what it is" bark and "there is a stranger by the door and he might be an intruder" bark.


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## GSDluver4lyfe (Nov 15, 2006)

If someone broke into my house while no one was home I would hope my dogs (especially the little one) would get under the bed or in their house and stay the **** out of the way. The life of my dog is worth way more than any possessions in the house. If their barking didnt deter the intruder then IMO the dogs did their job and if the intruders proceed inside I want my dogs to run and not be seen, period. Now me being home is a different story and expect my GSD to deter the intruder for as long as possible.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

well i got an idea of what would happen if someone came barging into my house the other day. my mom told me she was coming over to pick something up. normally she knocks or rings the doorbell. well she decided that day she was just going to walk in. jasmine seen the door open and imidiately went to the door barking and practically keeping her from opening the door. my mom freaked and closed the door a bit and said "jasmine its grandma" and i told her to chill its grandma and she got a wiff of her sent and began to get excited because she loves her grandma. 
in doing her barking, her hackles were raised. 
this is the first time in the almost 2 years we have had her, someone just came walking through the door.
i think she did all this because she was afraid, not because she is protective. 
we have had a lot of problems with her fear barking. 
not too sure how to take what she did.. 
thoughts?


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