# Rescue Dogs--How Many is Too Many?



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I thought this would be an interesting topic for all of us to ponder given the recent seizure of dogs from Brightstar's founder, Ruth Urban. 

I have been working with rescue off and on for the past 8 years. The work is very emotional and I've had to learn to accept that I can't personally save every dog. I can no longer foster because it is too hard on my two seniors so I've had to find other ways to help. I also consider 2 dogs my personal limit in terms of being to provide quality care (food, supplements, exercise, attention). Making and keeping these sorts of limits is something that is really hard for most people in rescue. There is a tremendous amount of pressure to foster and every day is a crisis--there really are dogs (and cats) euthanized every day who could be saved if there were enough foster and adoptive homes for them...but we can't save them all. 

One thing I have noticed is that people often start out in rescue as a foster parent and the number of dogs in their household quickly balloons. Because of the crisis mentaility/reality people who may start with one personal dog and one foster often adopt more dogs and then continue to foster so within a year I've seen people go from one personal dog to three or four personal dogs and several fosters. In about half of these cases where the number of animals balloons quickly the people get burnt out and leave rescue, often on very bad terms. 

I wonder what other people feel is a healthy number of personal dogs to foster ratio? And how are you able to balance all of the issues involved in fostering and continuing to provide a good quality of life for your personal animals and for your fosters? Do any of you feel you have taken on too many dogs and, if so, do you have advice for ways that rescues might minimize the stress/pressure on fosters? Should there be limits on the number of fosters in a home at any given time? If so, what should those be? 

I realize this topic itself could get very heated so please be respectful towards your fellow rescuers.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

For me it all depends on the individual dogs. How old (or young)? How much training do they come with? Any vices that need to be worked on?

If I was fostering a young, high drive dog I would say only one.

But if I had a laid back, older dog then I could easily take in another one or even two.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I apologize for the typos and misspellings in my original post. I really am quite literate but I often type without my glasses on!









I think the other issue here that I didn't mention is what a foster home is expected to do with the dogs. When I foster the dogs leave my house with A LOT of training and I would not be able to do that if I had more than one foster at a time. 

Also, how do people find the strength to say no? A lot of times things just seem to snowball...the more involved you get, the more dogs you adopt and foster!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I just started helping with the spca and won't be able to foster as I already have three dogs(my personal limit). A couple from my church started fostering in Dec. and now have 5 of their own dogs(just got a Pyrenees from a shelter up north) and are fostering 4 more, mostly medium size mixes. They are helping with the dogs that no-one else notices, so hopefully can get them adopted out faster, as they do train and socialize them. They live in the city, with neighbors close on each side, the dogs live in the house. They do such a great job, and are at the adoption events every weekend with their fosters. I give the foster homes alot of credit, it would really be hard to part with a dog after getting to know it!


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## mychance (Oct 22, 2007)

Like Lauri, I find it depends on the individual foster and resident dogs involved. When I first started fostering, it was just me and Chance. I had 2 fosters fairly regularly. After I adopted Roxy, it was usually just one foster because she was young and demanding. Before Chance died, we had 3 resident dogs and would sometimes take one foster based on that dog's personality and individual needs - I did a lot of short-term emergency fostering. We were also living in the city and had a pre-teen in the house so our limits in terms of time, energy, space were greater. Shortly after we moved out of the city, Chance's health declined and I asked for a break from fostering to give him more (time, attention, car rides, belly rubs) and minimize stress for everyone. I'm SO glad I did that, but it was hard to see the e-mails pleading for help. 

We now have 2 resident dogs and the (now) teenager is with us only part-time, but I think I will probably stick with just one foster. It gives me time to work on obedience and more socialization and not feel like I am short-changing anyone on time and attention. I feel like if I'm doing my job right as a foster home then I won't see that dog again once he or she is adopted. Although, I'd be tickled to get some updates and a picture now and then!

How do you say no? I'm glad I'm with an organization that has guidelines because it would be so much harder if I were on my own. As part of a group I go into an evaluation knowing what SASRA will and will not consider for fostering. Now (big surprise!) those guidelines may get wobbly when we have several open foster homes, but it does help to have some back-up when I do say no. Doesn't make it any easier.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

This is a very interesting topic. As many of you know I have three of my own dogs, I'm not able to foster. I have dreams of someday having more land and being able to have somewhat of a sancutary (sp? Ruth, I'm sorry I CAN'T spell lol) where I'm able to take on a couple of Senior dogs at a time. How much is too much for someone??? I think alot of that depends on the person and the makeup of their existing furcrew as well as the fosters. I saw a picture of a man on these boards some time ago and he had, god only knows, how many GSDs-there had to of been 8-10 but I got the impression that he was doing an exceptional job with them. 
I've come very close to having a couple of Seniors from these boards sent to me but after talking with a friend, we decided this would not be in the best interest of my dogs and likely not the best for the senior. It does break my heart knowing 'I could' do more at times, but I have to look at the big picture. We all need to know our limits. 
I'm also dealing with dogs I will never see. I could see where I could get emontionally overwhelmed if I had to face these dogs and make decisions in person. 
I think communication is key to keeping the foster parents from being overwhelmed and would help to catch problems before they turn into something much larger. I would also think that some type of social gatherings would help too. This way they would be around people with the same passion/problems that they have and be able to get support from their piers.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

My maximum is a total of of four dogs. I currently have a GSD, since he was pup, a rescue I adopted, and another rescue that should be placed shortly. I would take another rescue, but I will stop there.

I do provide all medical care, food, etc. to my rescues, albeit my rescue group would reimburse me if I asked. However, because of vet expenses they are strapped for dollars right now. 

I live in a very dog friendly area so I am able to to socialize my rescues with the neighbor's dogs. However, I have met people that have fove or more rescues, and have no idea how they do it, especially those that live in cities, with crowded streets and restrictions of the number of dogs you can have.

You asked about a number of dogs to have and I cannot answer that because so much depends on your other responsibilities and your environment. 

As for training I try and do my best. The rescues I have had need more training, but ironically are much nicer then the shelter they came from described. 

I am retired, live in a dog friendly neighborhood, but my father who is 90 and lives 250 miles away is slowly dying. So for now, it is my forever dog, the dog I adopted and two rescues. 

This is a great topic and I hope more people respond.


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## daniella5574 (May 2, 2007)

I have always said I would have no more than 2 rescues at a time, however, I recently had 4 fosters as I knew that one would be going home within two weeks of my fourth coming in... I have a very easy, laid back, senior foster, perfect-perfect boy with no issues, and sweet 6 month old and 7 month old puppies- who for puppies, are VERY well behaved. I have my 4- a senior who just wants to sleep quite a bit lately, my 3 yr. old female, 2 year old male, and 2 and a half year old female. My pack is trained well, they listen great, and are comfortable with dogs coming and going. So, because I have my pack pretty well in order, I was able to take on this many and care for them properly as I am home all day, and have the help of my husband who is home by 3:45. Our dogs are walked everyday, by both of us, although we do have to take two trips. He makes three on some days- by himself with our two higher energy dogs in the morning, and the other two with me after work. I basic obedience train all my fosters before they leave (if they need it): heeling, sit, down, we work on stays, recall, I do as much as I can for the time they are with me. No, it isnt always easy, it is very time consuming but when I take on that responsibility I take it seriously. I much prefer to have only 2 fosters, but I believe that every now and then a special circumstance arises and if we can foster an extra and still give them ALL proper care, attention, exercise, then so be it. I never thought I would have more than 3 of my own dogs, but, I believe that certain ones that have come to me came to me for a reason- such as Sage from MD. Not one person wanted this girl, and I fostered her for 5 months... not many had an interest here either... she had HD that is pretty severe for her age, she has behaviorial issues that I have worked through very well with her- and even though Sage will always be a work in progress I believe she was meant to be with me. It is very hard to say no- I have wanted for quite awhile now a sable puppy, and, lo and behold there is a sable female 6 month old on the urgent board. I have been very tempted, but I know that the dog I plan on making a therapy dog is the best match for me and that work. So, I have to keep in mind that if I get in over my head with dogs I "want"... that my personal pack and fosters will suffer because of it.


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## jacksons.mama (Apr 26, 2008)

Perfect discussion for the recent events! I seem to have fallen into the rescue trap myself! I had 1 GSD when i started fostering last summer and intended to only foster 1 at a time!! By fall i had a puppy foster i just had to keep and now am comfortable fostering 2 at a time and sometimes dog-sit but i have to say 3 dogs in the house is the perfect number!!


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## Tina & Dave (Apr 19, 2004)

We foster here.... but right from the get go I had the frame of mind that if I adopted any more then I would not be able to do what I enjoy... foster. There isnt anything more fullfilling for me than watching a shy, mistreated dog come out of his shell. 

I have 2 of my own gsd rescues and I foster (usually) 1 on top of them. They are fully vetted before I get them but most have come from a rural Ohio shelter that they have lived in for most of their lives. My last guy was about 18 months when he arrived and had no house manners at all and barely socialized. He stayed for 7 months. He just left last nite to go to his new home. I usually provide love and a lot of patience for the first couple of months. We have many dogs in neighbourhood also and they get socialized and learn leash and house manners while here. If we are lucky they also learn sit, stay etc etc. We always suggest that the new family enrol in obedience. 

I have had 4 dogs here for the past 3 months, something I would not normally do, however when family calls once must help where they can. Mine are very use to the comings and goings of fosters and are pretty laid back so a rambunctious 18 mth wasnt to difficult to manage. SIL dog is also laid back. But I tell you Dave and I put our feet up last nite after all had left and let out a big sigh ... we wont foster now for a couple of months we are completely exhausted. So I guess you can say we know when we have reached our limit. 

Tina


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

Oh well, here goes. Be kind in your replies to me. 
Yes, it is very easy to fall into the rescue issue of too many dogs. I'm probably in it right now, however, all my dogs have ended up with my family at different times and the transition has been an easy one. Probably because of the breeds and the home set-up my hubby and I have created. 
Our yard is fenced into three different sections. I have a puppy play area to the side of our home, a 1/2 acre fenced-in back yard with about 20 plus trees and a fenced front yard. All fences are five foot ... stick-built wood in front, chain link on the side and back. Our property is surrounded on three sides by woods, which is great when the collies get in a barking mode, which is quickly stopped by taking a time out inside. 
K, here goes. And, all animals are spayed/neutered, UTD on vaccines, HW preventative and Frontline Plus of course. I am retired after 23 years in the Coast Guard and am extremely lucky to be able to be a stay-at-home mom for my two human children and my fur kids. With this ability, I am able to attend all my boy's school functions, make them a good breakfast in the a.m. before school, poop scoop yards every day and water to ensure I keep a nice grassy environment. And of course, care for my fur kids. My neighborhood is pretty rural, so dog walking isn't really great because there are just one too many dogs on chains for my comfort. I do my best to educate my neighbors, but there is just so much they will listen to. So, I really prefer to not walk my dogs past the chains pit bulls. Just too risky. So, we play in the backyard and do obedience in the cul-de-sac.
1. A 13-year-old pug who is really a black pillow you will find sleeping on a bed or couch at anytime except dinner and potty time. He sleeps with my son at night and has since we rescued him at the age of 9. 
2. Two seven-year old collies who are extremely social and have helped bring many a foster out of their shell. Love the breed except for the barking.







They have complete free roam of the house or outside anytime, whichever they prefer and typically sleep around our bed at night. They are perfectly housetrained. 
3. A nine and one-half year old border collie, which has been with us for nine years. She also has free roam, likes to sleep in the bathroom at night and is perfectly house trained. 
4. An eight-year-old beagle, which is just that ... a beagle. She has an open-door policy on her crate and really likes to just snooze on the blanket in her crate. She is one that I have to watch when she goes outside to go potty because if she gets a scent, she will scale anything to get out.
5. A five-year-old Basset that has a keen ability to find the most comfortable spot in the house. My husband typically finds Charlie on his side of the bed in the a.m. after he gets out of the shower and gets ready for work. He gets up at O-dark-thirty, so I am still sleeping. Many times he says that Charlie takes his spot, including the pillow. Goofy dog. Also perfectly house trained and has free roam of the house.
6. My two beautiful GSDs, my male G who is two-years old and his half-sister, Jetta, who is one-year-old. G has been through two levels of obedience and Jetta is a small (50 pounds) very high-drive work in progress. She will soon be attending the three-week course with our trainer as we both need some direction with her personality. They both have free roam of the house, but Jetta does sleep in her crate at night. 
7. A 10-month old little 15-pound terrier mix, which wiggled his way into my youngest son's heart, bed and is his complete sidekick. He is an easy, food-motivated little dog that learns VERY quickly. 
8. And finally, a personal rescue, which will need very careful placement. He is a almost-five-month-old Tibetan Mastiff. This is not a breed for just anyone. He is a personal rescue, will stay with me at least until he is old enough to be neutered. The youngest this breed should be neutered is six months and that is pushing it. I am working with a WONDERFUL reputable breeder who is a wealth of info and has many rescue contacts. Together, we will find him the perfect, breed experienced home. 
So, there is is. Never a dull moment here. But also a very lively and happy home. All animals and humans get along wonderfully, my boys (12 and 13) are very into rescue and are wonderful helpers with the chores. 
The no-vacancy sign is lit out front for the time being, but we know, in the future when the numbers have dwindled, we will foster again. 
Until then, I do my part with my rescue as their transport coordinator, being the rescue contact and evaluator for my two local shelters when they have a GSD and short-trip transporter when I can.
Remember, be kind to me.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

People might remind me I said my max was four dogs, but as all us fosters know, if a dog was ready to be killed I would probably take it. As you said, every now and then a situation might arise in which you take another dog to foster. 

Perhaps another topic, but the biggest problem with my rescue group is we tend to take dogs in poor health, and the vet expenses are killing us.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Sounds like a wonderful family Liz!!!


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## Kaylas Mom (Oct 6, 2007)

I foster, but will only take in one foster at a time. I just had a 5 month old, and to be honest he wore me out..LOL. He was adopted two days ago. I have my own dogs to think about also, so for me it's easy to say NO. to more than one foster..


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I think that number varies - just like the number of personal dogs that is too many varies. I've seen people overwhelmed with 2 or have plenty of time for 6. It just depends on the amount of time a person has, their level of interest, the size and energy level of the dogs as well as their temperament and compatibility with each other. 

I've definitely gotten overwhelmed before and had to dial back. I was one of the shelters I work with today and am overnighting several dogs for transport tomorrow. It's after midnight and I;'m finally done walking dogs around the block. Doing things like this reminds me how nice it is when the overnighters leave and we go back to our crew!









Having had everything from 1 foster to 15 fosters - NOT 15 GSDs mind you, 15 that included a large litter of pups or a small litter and several small dogs. Even so, it was way too many. The dogs were well cared for but that was literally all I did, all day long. 

I find that 2-5 fosters at a time works for us and I don't normally have more than 1 large dog foster at a time and at most 2. Even that may seem like a lot to some, especially considering that we have 4 personal dogs (2 large, 2 small), but I'm home all the time and I have a teenage son and husband who both help a lot. We also have a huge old house and a large yard, so that helps too. 

I'd say 3 fosters that all get along with our dogs and with each other is our optimum number. 

My litmus test about our numbers (and whether it's appropriate to get a new foster) is a series of questions: 

Are all the dogs clean? Nails trimmed? UTD on everything? Fresh blankets? Did all the dogs get a walk today? Were they out of their crate the majority of the day? Are they tired at the end of the day? Do they seem happy? Did we make progress on training goals? Basically, are everyone's needs met? Do I feel good about the quality of life of all the animals in my care? Am I proud of the job I'm doing? Would I impress any home checker? 

How about my son - is he getting enough attention? DH? Is the house clean? Errands and other tasks attended to? And also, am _I _happy? Do _I_ feel good and not too stressed?

If the answer to all those questions is yes, then things are good. If the answer to any of them is no, then I know I need to change something somewhere. Like many (most?) rescuers, I pay more attention to the first set of questions about the dogs than the second one about the people and I spend way too much time feeling stressed and tearing out my hair but I'm trying to do better about that.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Very well said, pupresq! I think everyone working in rescue should put that list of questions on their refrigerator!


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

well, i'm not fostering and don't plan to - once neb is here, i'm at my declared limit. 

but i think pupresq's list is great. 

what i've done for awhile w/animals period, having one cat foster left over from what used to be far more fosters (and i burnt out) - is, in addition to stuff that's specific to adoption - i have a third party give me feedback on whether they think another animal is a good idea - and i think that works well in a fostering situation. someone who knows me well, knows my stresses, my schedule, and is around me and my animals and knows how they're cared for. currently that person is my bf, (though my family as well) and my bf doesn't rescue, doesn't have the rescue attitude of saving one more, and feels like he's dating someone with a bunch of kids. 

i think when you're fostering, it's a good idea to keep someone involved with you checking in - b/c it can be tempting to say 'i can take just one more', and other people can be far more objective about your situation than you might be able to.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I dont rescue, however I do want to in the future. Now is not a good time for lots and lots of reasons. One mainly cause we rent and have a weight limit lol, however, the way things are now, even if I had my own home, I still wouldnt be able to.

I think one thing that needs to be looked at are, one, all the questions that pupresq's asked.

I also think that the number of people in the household, ages and who will be helping and not helping makes a difference. Are the kids old enough to help out in some ways? What about the spouse? Is it going to be one person taking care of them or just one person all by their lonesome?

I think that before hand someone should at least try to set a limit of dogs they feel they can properly take care of. A round about guess anyways, like, say.."OK, our limit is four, but in a serious situation we can handle another one if its really needed" sorta thing.

Saying no is hard for some people, esp if you are by yourself. So that needs to be thought about to. I know that I am much much more stronger and find it easier to turn something down when I know my DH is beind me all the way.

um, something that I havent seen mentioned in this thread yet that was in the other thread, is the mental aspect of things.

I posted in the other thread, but that is something that can be very very tricky and all I guess anyone can really do is try and get educated on it and find the best possible was to handle some situations. It can be rough, esp. if someone is in denial that they are in over their heads, or will get in over their heads.

I could not foster or rescue or even take in dogs on my own. I have DH to help me and support me and reassure me that im not a bad person for not helping a dog, otherwise, I would end up taking in one after another. From giveaways to strays. Why? I probably couldnt pinpoint excatly way...I mean why do I get up 4 times a night to see that the oven really is off and my kids actually are breathing? lol


But I think there are sooooooo many things to look at its really hard to say, "OK, this is the only amount people can take care of" when in fact, it varies. I know I can at least handle 3 dogs, where as my mother in law couldnt handle 1.





> Quote:i think when you're fostering, it's a good idea to keep someone involved with you checking in - b/c it can be tempting to say 'i can take just one more', and other people can be far more objective about your situation than you might be able to.



how did i miss this? omygawsh I am so lacking......lol. You summed up half of my post in that statment...<sigh> I think to much in detail I think. LOL


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## mychance (Oct 22, 2007)

pupresq, GSDolch, and jarn - you've raised some really helpful questions and "thinking points". If you don't mind I'm going to include them in the Foster Home Handbook we are working on. 

In hindsight, I can even see for my own situation how much easier it was to get too sucked in when I was single. I think pupresq's questions that check in on our loved ones and ourselves are especially critical and agree that they all too ofter skimmed over. In rescue I think the 80/20 rule (80% of the work is done by 20% of the people) is probably more like 95/5 and I see so many of my rescue friends on the edge of burn-out and exhaustion way too much of the time.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Feel free! 

I think the point about checking in with a loved one or unbiased observer before adding another is an excellent suggestion. It's always good to get an outside view because it's all too easy to get carried away in the desire to save them all. 

In my experience, rescuers are not highly motivated to do what is best for themselves (if we were, we wouldn't do rescue!), so telling someone "you need to slow down, you're killing yourself" doesn't usually get you very far. If they're hard core into rescue their mental reaction (and mine myself when people have said that) is "I can handle it. These dogs are dying NOW and they need my help. What is my need for sleep/a break/quality time compared to their need to live?" You end up feeling selfish or like you're doing something wrong when you sit down to read a book or watch television or go on vacation. 

But in reality, you DO need to do those things. And the key to staying in this long term is to find that balance. Sometimes you're in it, sometimes you get a bit out of whack and need to find it again. 

Anyway, I find a better approach is to appeal to people on behalf of the dogs - and that's where I came up with my list of questions. That gives me objective data about whether I (or another rescuer) are where we should be in our care of the dogs, and it's care of the dogs that is my number one priority - the fosters but also my personal dogs. It's much easier for me to tell myself "I can't take in another foster because the dogs I have now aren't getting walked enough" than "I can't take in another foster because I'm tired." Both are valid and important it can just be hard to refuse when you feel selfish doing it and rescue people tend to abhor that. Unfortunately that can mean competing to see (my imaginary reality show) "Who's the biggest martyr?" And that's a race to the bottom, to compromising on care (the "anything's better than death" mentality) and to burn out or implosion.

I look at rescue like adaptive management - you have assess and reassess constantly where you are and how things are going. If things start to shift, you need to make those adjustments and get things back on track. 

I'm probably going to get another personal dog in the next year or two because I want to get back into SAR and also because I want to add the newbie while Grace is still spry enough to enjoy them (and not be royally pissed off about a nutty young GSD). I know that to add another dog I have to be very happy with the care my current dogs are getting. I also know that SAR takes a lot of time and that adding something like that is going to throw off my current balance and will definitely mean taking in fewer fosters and adjusting the way I spend time. I'm okay with that and am looking forward to a new member of the family and chapter in what I'm doing. But if I weren't realistic about what adding a young high drive GSD could mean, then I could easily get into trouble. Same thing when people change jobs, or have a new project, or whatever. Demands on your time change and your rescue practices have to adjust so that your level of care stays high. 

I'm glad to see this discussion. I think people get too locked into "good rescue" "bad rescue" and see everything in black and white. The best rescue can have members get into trouble and the worst rescue may have some good people. As the rescue community I really believe we have to get more honest about the fact that rescue is a continuum and when we see people drifting off to the low side, we need to help them move back or if that fails, step up and sound the alarm. The only way to do that is, as people keep saying, transparency. *Secrecy and shadow are what makes bad rescue practices possible. When we welcome vet checks, reference checks, site inspections and home visits, we let the sunshine in and the dogs are the winners. *


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I think those are great posts!

The culture of each individual rescue, and if they are lucky enough to have guidelines and rules, seems to dictate how good or bad it can get. 

I have a similar setup to Ebrannan (minus three fenced yards-that would be great) in terms of number of dogs and what I do with them. I also have a weekly poop service that comes to take away the poop I've scooped daily which is a lifesaver. I would NEVER have this many dogs without it because I don't have any place to put it (other than something that would turn into Poop Mountain). 

My problem is I like the head cases. I started out fostering and adopting out easier dogs. Then you get bored, and want the challenges. That is how I have ended up with the number of dogs I have. I run it like a dog group home-systems and structure. Unfortunately, when you foster dogs with issues, you eventually have to come to terms with-is this dog so laden with issues that they either should be PTS or adopted by me to keep them safe? 

So I simply do not foster anymore. It's hard-you see so many nice dogs, but there is no room at the inn. I have a list like pupresq and know that one more would put me over that line. Particularly considering I watch them like a hawk and will take them to the vet if they let gas crosswise.









I also do not believe that the number of fosters you have or the number of fosters you have adopted out=your "worth" as a person. Sometimes to me there is a "peeing contest" quality of saying I have saved this many or this rescue has saved that many...each life saved AND IMPROVED is important. Saving them just to send them on to another crappy situation is not the same. 

In a perfect rescue, which to me would stress quality over quantity, a committee made up of the most knowledgeable and level headed, logical types would assess the dog savviness, organization, training skills, health awareness, and CURRENT dog/cat/home situation (not the one from the home check) of each foster home and come up with a recommended number of fosters for that person to handle well, with that being reevaluated quarterly or after each adoption. 

ETA-pupresq, we need to stop agreeing so much!


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

These really are wonderful posts. I love the list on the frig idea. Heck, I have school projects, grades, home task reminder lists ... why not a "check yourself and environment rescue list!!"
For the few months before our dear Jake, our 11 and a half YO Great Pyrenees passed over to the bridge, I must admit, I did feel overwhelmed. Our big boy's heart and love were still strong, but his legs wouldn't hold up his body anymore. I would get up a couple times a night to help him up to get his drink of water, helped him regain his balance all the time, and literally, watched him like a hawk. Three weeks ago and his last morning with us, I helped him into his beloved backyard and sat while he enjoyed the breeze under the trees. He was a proud dog, our watchful livestock guardian, only we [humans] and the fur kids were his flock. 
We let him pass to the bridge with the same dignity he held all his life. He is now patrolling God's backyard and will be there waiting for us. We all miss him so much, but know we did the right thing. 
Well, as far as the clean house ... there are some things that my boys are old enough to do for themselves, i.e., put their clean clothes away, clean their rooms, etc. They sit there until the boys do what they should. I would be doing them a disservice if I did all their personal chores. They need to know and respect that they have to do things for themselves in life. So, we do butt heads there.








And, yes, my family laughs at me because I can tell you by sound: who is drinking the water, who is walking down the hall, who poops right after they eat or who needs the 20-minutes digestion time, who will eat their food with no hesitation and who will need the extra cube of raw venison mixed in. 
Life is good!


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm sorry for the loss of your sweet pup; he sounds like a noble fellow. 



> Quote:Well, as far as the clean house ... there are some things that my boys are old enough to do for themselves


Agreed! My son is responsible for his room and has quite a few other chores around the house. By "is the house clean?" I definitely don't mean "Have I achieved my wifely duties?"







I'm more just checking to make sure that the ship is running on course. I get stressed when things are messy or disorganized so when the house gets too chaotic, that's always a warning that I need to correct course and crack down on myself and the boys. 



> Quote: And, yes, my family laughs at me because I can tell you by sound: who is drinking the water, who is walking down the hall, who poops right after they eat or who needs the 20-minutes digestion time, who will eat their food with no hesitation and who will need the extra cube of raw venison mixed in.


You too huh? It's always amazing to me when my family _can't _tell all those things. My furkids voices and noises are just as distinct and individual as people's. What's that? That's the sound of Leo trying to get Grace to play and her telling him to quit. That jingle is Percy scratching his ear - I need to check and make sure there's nothing going on there. You get pretty attuned to your pack and that helps you know the second something seems off. I realize this isn't a topic for polite company but I bet there are quite a few of us who can distinguish our different dogs' poop by smell alone and know the second it starts to seem "off." Large pack moms are a special breed!









ETA: But Jean I like agreeing with you! Can't we just put it down to great minds thinking alike?


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

I foster occasionally. Due to my crew and my limitations, I can only foster 1 dog at a time and have found what works best for me is generally adult to senior males that have mild energy levels. I told the rescue after fostering a couple of young males, that I can only do 5 years and older. The only time I took in more than 1 was when I fostered two 4 month old puppies. Never again will I do puppies.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: mychancepupresq, GSDolch, and jarn - you've raised some really helpful questions and "thinking points". If you don't mind I'm going to include them in the Foster Home Handbook we are working on.


yeah, of course.







checking in has been the best system for me, while i do have a list of things if i'm adopting that the animal has to met before i'll go see them (to rid the emotional element again), i actually really like that it's like i'm being inspected or something


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## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

We follow City and County codes.
If the foster can only have two dogs, then that is the limit.
The maximum County will allow is four.
Makes it easy.
We will usually only allow a max. of two foster dogs though, due to the possibility of the needs of the dogs not being met.
As for the board members, we do have over the local legal limits on a regular basis. We have set our own limits on max dogs for us.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I have one of my own, and will take on only one foster at a time, I work full time as does my daughter and husband, between our schedules I really feel there is only time for one additional dog, I oftentimes wish I could do more.........but i have been holding to the motto of, just one life at a time....otherwise I fear I will become the problem myself. I need to be able to give these dogs love, manners, and a future.......I dont want to be caught up with constantly running around to vets, pet stores etc.......this just detracts from time with my foster (and my own dog). My pres of the rescue and I do discuss, the only time I have broken the one foster rule, was a temp situation that lasted for 4 days, that was one additional dog, so nothing I couldnt handle short term, but my rescue helped pull the dog so they could arrange a permanent foster home. I can see how this could get out of hand, but I will never forget trying to do kennel rotation (my current foster didnt get along with the new one). I know my limitations.........and that was it. Also, back to the point of outside opinions, my family will keep me honest, they are expected to help me, and I need to be fair to them too. I cannot expect them to give up their entire lives because of my love of GSD's they willingly help, but I know that could change if I put too much pressure on them as well.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: oregongsdr111We follow City and County codes.
> If the foster can only have two dogs, then that is the limit.
> The maximum County will allow is four.
> Makes it easy.
> ...


Paula, 

I'm curious as to why the board members feel it's ok to exceed the legal limit while it's not ok for regular volunteers? Do you make clear to one another what your personal limits are or is it an unspoken thing?


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## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

We live in a city with a two dog limit. 
We used to have no limit. 
I own two dogs. 
I have set it up so that we have no more than four dogs in our town. Fosters have been approved with the city as they are temporary, and the city says "as long as we get no complaints" it is okay. We are very careful to make sure the dogs do not bark, and they are never outside unattended.

Another Board member lives in a city where they can have four. They have a city animal control, and they have allow us to keep an additional four fosters in her area, based on the same criteria. No complaints. (a more rural area)

We keep a close relationship with both city and county agencys.
They are all welcome to stop by anytime, and they do. Many love the breed. Lots of the area rescues have the same courtousy extended to them. 

If ever they say no more over the limit, we would stop ASAP. 
I am sure we could ask for more, but we need to keep in check. 

Some areas have no limits on dogs. 
So we set it up case by case, experience, and need of the dogs. 
If they have a high needs dog, they take only one. If they can take a litter, then we send a litter. 

We have an inventory log, and we review each month as to who has what. 

Rules have to be in place, and I find it is easier for me when I have to turn folks away, to be able to say we at our capacity. 

When we first started up, we got out of control fast. We realized it, and we have worked hard to find a balance. We make alot of people angry, but that is how it goes. We are working hard on our web site to add a match section. We get requests to take in so many dogs that need homes, and we have no room, and we have lots of people that are looking. Many times we don't have what they are looking for at the moment. 

We are going to enourage people trying to place dogs to fill out an information sheet, as well as the pending adoptors. Our hope is we can teach the people trying to place their dogs how to screen, and match them up with the applications we have not found dogs for yet. My hope is higher placement of dogs, with us facilitating, resulting in lowing the amount of dogs we need to have our hands on.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: oregongsdr111We live in a city with a two dog limit.
> We used to have no limit.
> I own two dogs.
> I have set it up so that we have no more than four dogs in our town. Fosters have been approved with the city as they are temporary, and the city says "as long as we get no complaints" it is okay. We are very careful to make sure the dogs do not bark, and they are never outside unattended.
> ...


Thanks for explaining in detail, Paula. That sounds like a very good system you're using. I know that the statutes vary considerably from place to place and I also know that many foster homes take in way more than their legal limit without consulting the authorities. I think the relationship you have with the authorities in your area is a pretty unique one. 

The Humane Society in Madison, WI has a place on their website for people to list owner surrenders. I thought it was a great idea. I think coming up with a protocol that requires vet, personal and home checks as part of this process would be great too. 

The rescue I worked with in WI handled owner surrenders. We would not take them into fosters homes except in extreme cases (I took two different owner surrenders into foster who were being abused in their homes by the husband). We charged the owners a small fee, thoroughly evaluated each dog and observed them in their home environment, listed them on our website and then handled all of the screening and the actual placement. The dogs were adopted out under our contract and we received the adoption fee. That system worked very well as long as the original owners were willing to keep the dog in their home during the adoption process.


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

VGSR posts a weekly "where the dogs are" list to anyone in our volunteer database that wants to receive it.

This list provides information about each dog, age, medical conditions, whether they get along with cats, kids, vaccine status and VGSR tracking tag number. It also provides the name, email or contact information for each dog's foster. 

All fosters are required to submit their foster dog's information to the guy who maintains the list as soon as they get a new foster.

This list is acutually very useful to the "caseworkers", who are the folks that help match up the right dog to the right applicant. 

But, since this list is produced weekly and kept as current as possible, it would also be very apparent if we saw that a foster was way overloaded with dogs.


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## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

Lea,
Would you be willing to share the structure of your form through PM?


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

Hi Paula,

No problemo! If you will shoot me your personal email via a PM I will be happy to share!

Lea


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

one thing i'm curious about - how many people who volunteer for an actual rescue have their own say about bringing in dogs? 

i'm just asking, b/c having run a cat rescue - we had 5 members of the board of directors (i sat on it for 2 years) and met at least quarterly. the cat part of the operations was divided into 2: foster cats, and feral cats. i was the trapping coordinator (feral cats; i coordinated all trapping and feral spay/neuters/medical care). nobody could TNR a feral cat w/out permission from me, and i was the only one allowed to make feral medical approvals. if a cat was not feral but stray, or there were kittens, i coordinated w/the foster coordinator. 

myself and the foster coordinator were the only people authorized for veterinary approvals, and foster homes were not allowed to bring in cats and give them their own vetting. any emergencies went through me (i lived relatively close to the e-vet and got immediate cc reimbursement, as well, it meant a relatively experienced and emotionally removed person reviewing and authorizing vet care. finances do influence people in how many animals they'll foster. 

the foster coordinator was the ONLY person who could bring a cat into the foster program. in certain cases of serious medical problems or other policy issues intake of a cat could be discussed at the board level. (i ended up fostering 2 sisters, one w/mega-e and a fused spinal cord, the other blind (no eyes) and asymptomatic hydrocephalus that had to be approved by the board to bring them into the program).

i guess what i'm trying to say is - there was a centralized system, not only did the foster coordinator know how many cats each foster home had, and whether the cats were special needs, kittens, seniors, etc - having that centralized system stopped overload of foster homes (as a rule; eventually on the board we also agreed to pass a requirement that the foster homes could not, w/owned and foster cats, exceed the city's maximum number set out in bylaws). 

it seems like some of the dog rescues do have central coordinator, but that some don't - is this not the case w/most dog rescues? i would've expected a great deal of oversight in place. unless i'm just misreading some people's responses. i was thinking about this earlier though.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I think it varies from rescue to rescue. I have worked with two dog rescues. With one you needed approval from the board to pull a dog. Actually what happened was that someone from the board would contact me with a dog they thought would be a good fit for me (usually because they were sick or had behavioral issues







) and they would ask if I would be willing to foster the dog. I then had the option of saying yes or no. 

With the other rescue people could approach and say they wanted to pull a particular dog and they would say it was fine. That particular rescue has people fostering who have a lot of experience...but we know that absolutely doesn't mean they have good judgment!


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## MemphisCockers (Dec 12, 2003)

We have been discussing these same topics within the leadership of the all-breed group I work with for the past couple of weeks, so the timing of recent events has brought some reality to our discussions because of a concern about a couple of the volunteers and the total number of animals they each have. 

There is concern also because this group is one where if you pick up a stray from the side of the road and agree to foster it, the group will accept it into their rescue program. Repeatedly they find themselves in a situation of having to board dogs or find someone who can handle the issues of one of these dogs after the "good samaritan" volunteer bails on fostering the dog. Some of the long term volunteers have learned the hard way not to pick up every stray they see because that stray will be at your house until adoption, but there have been newbies who get in over their heads quickly leaving the rescue to have to essentially bail them out. One example of this was a woman living in a suburb with a pet limit ordinance... neighbors called code enforcement not to complain about the dogs but to complain about her repeated failure to mow her lawn. The situation escalated, and animal control, while sympathetic, couldn't intercede because code enforcement was already involved. So the group ended up with 6 dogs needing somewhere to go that day.

Another problem we've run into that still needs an answer is how to handle the volunteers who foster a dog and never bring the dog to adoption events, can't manage to get it to the photographer or take a photo themselves and, in one case, keep a foster dog for 3-4 years still claiming it's a "foster". While the 3-4 year long foster situation is fairly unique, I feel like we need to have a committee in place for declaring the animal a sanctuary case or telling the foster to pay up on the adoption fee or start getting the dog to adoption events regularly. I realize there are some dogs that just can't handle being at the events, but most of the time with this group it's the volunteer either not wanting to adopt the dog out (and therefore ignoring all inquiries and applications on the dog) or not wanting to give up the time to go to the events.

This brings me to a related question... who makes the decision on approving or declining applications for a specific dog? The foster parent or the officers of the group?

Steph


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## CMorton (Oct 28, 2000)

This is an interesting thread, and I've been enthralled reading it.
I loved the questions posted in pupresq's post, I think everyone, in every aspect of animal care needs to keep all that in mind.
I foster from time to time, various breeds. I've worked with local Chihuahua rescue twice, kept the older one until she crossed the bridge and placed the younger one after a year of fostering.
Half of my pack, the older half <the elder generation >, are mostly rescues. 

Do you guys have any breeders who foster? And how would you keep check on that? I assume like any other fosterer with home checks occasionally, and accountability.
I've seen friends of mine who breed get overwhelmed with mainly their own dogs, but are deeply involved in rescue as well. Of course they either personally rescue or help in a larger organization to transport usually. They have a good name in rescue so with most of the people in the rescue area of our breed club wouldn't question them.
I could never manage the number of dogs they have.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> With the other rescue people could approach and say they wanted to pull a particular dog and they would say it was fine. That particular rescue has people fostering who have a lot of experience...but we know that absolutely doesn't mean they have good judgment!


thinking about it, i'm going to guess that the rescues that allow their foster homes to essentially intake their own fosters probably don't cover vet and other costs - ???? - b/c in my experience, it's as much about making sure the animals are in a good home and adoptable as it is making sure the rescue is in a good state financially.


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## mychance (Oct 22, 2007)

CMorton - I agree. I think we all have so much to learn from one another and there's some great information in this thread. Someone on the "pressure to pull thread" posted about the concept of a more coordinated proactive rescue system and it feels like this is a a very complimentary conversation to that idea. We did have a breeder very involved for a long time. She was actually one of the group's founding members and having her kennel allowed us to do several hundred adoptions in a year because we had the space to hold many more dogs. As we became more formal with reference checks and adoption contracts, it became clear that she preferred a different approach and she left the group. I think she might still be doing some rescue work on her own. It was hard to see the number of placements drop so drastically, but our return rate also plummeted because we know the dogs and adopters better.

For our group (GSD specific) we have a Placement Committee who manages the ins and outs of the dogs. We accept owner surrenders and take transfers from local shelters. We've rarely had strays come directly into rescue - one notable exception happens to be the teeny tiny puppy left in a carrier at a volunteer's house who now belongs to another member of this forum (smooches to Ava). In the case of a volunteer picking up a stray, we might get another volunteer to evaluate and then would probably accept the dog for placement - which does mean covering vet & food costs and the group taking life-time responsibility for that dog. If a volunteer chose to pull a dog without being asked, then they are likely on their own. 

The Placement Committee makes the request for an evaluation, identifies an appropriate open foster home, and has the final say on the dog being accepted for fostering. We have so few fosters and most have been with SASRA for several years so the Placement folks know what's a good mix for their home and also keeps an eye on numbers. Placement also reviews the adoption applications, does all the reference checks, and the personal interview and matches dogs to potential adopters. 

Our foster homes have "first right of refusal" on any dog they foster, but they have to make a decision within the first two weeks. After that the dog is posted on PetFinder and our website. We might also call approved adopters about a new dog if it seems like a good match. We've never had the kind of problem MemphisCockers describes (or at least not to that extreme). If the foster isn't quick enough with getting a photo to the folks who do the web postings, someone else stops by for a visit and to take the pictures. 

Getting dogs out to events is a challenge for us also, but because the foster home is already volunteering 24-7 we struggle with how much more we can ask of them. We have had trouble with foster homes not getting information back to the right person in a timely manner and not returning phone calls from potential adopters. It's never come to this, but our Board has decided we'd move a dog rather than risk a deepening power struggle. Our foster homes do get the last (but not always decisive word) about a possible adopter after they've met them. We have had foster homes give vague reasons about why they think the dog should not go to a specific approved adopter, but the Placement Committee was always able to work through the issue - usually a personality clash.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Our group is sort of a hybrid because of the way we're set up. We work with several different rural shelters and each shelter has a rescue coordinator who is a member of our group. The shelter liaisons are all also foster parents and all make their own decisions about which animals they are going to pull and foster - although there's a lot of discussion that goes on between us and we are all at each other's houses pretty regularly so there's oversight about who has what and how many - we also keep a database. 

The foster liaisons are responsible for deciding which other animals are pulled and placed in foster care with other foster parents (which I really wish we had more of) so that someone experienced about what is placeable, cognizant of what we already have (e.g. don't pull more black kittens when we already have 5 in care), and aware of the financial situation is making the intake decisions. 



> Quote:in my experience, it's as much about making sure the animals are in a good home and adoptable as it is making sure the rescue is in a good state financially.


Yes, finances are a big issue. We have several different people making intake decisions but when we're talking about an animal with medical needs, there's some discussion that goes on. We also allocate little pots of money for each shelter, so that rescue coordinator kind of knows what she has to work with and if she needs to fundraise if she's going to pull a particular animal.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: jarn
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> ...


I meant to get back on to clarify this last night. If an approved foster home finds out about a dog in need they can approach the leadership of the rescue about fostering and will usually be approved but there are special conditions. In those cases the rescue will pay for vetting but _only up to the adoption fee._ Over that and the foster home is responsible. So when I took in a dog with special needs I raised the money to cover his special needs and I also pursued donations for his food, supplements, bedding, etc. In cases where the rescue leadership finds the dogs and places them into foster homes then the vetting, etc. is all covered by the rescue. 

The placement rate of this rescue is very high (with very few adoption events) because their adoption fee is low and includes all the regular stuff.


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## MemphisCockers (Dec 12, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI meant to get back on to clarify this last night. If an approved foster home finds out about a dog in need they can approach the leadership of the rescue about fostering and will usually be approved but there are special conditions. In those cases the rescue will pay for vetting but _only up to the adoption fee._ Over that and the foster home is responsible.


That's something we've never talked about doing, but it's a great idea, which I will pass on to the director. Thanks for sharing the info.

Steph


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

My rescue is not the same, and I am a rescue volunteer. They cover all expenses, but because I afford it, I have never billed them for the four dogs I have served as a rescue for.

However, if one of my rescue dogs had serious health problems, they will cover. Unfortunately, that is why they are cash short at the moment. They took in a few too many dogs with significant health probems, and are now paying the tab.

I suspect all rescues are difference, but once my group takes a dog, regardless of condition, the support the animal.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

My rescue is not the same, and I am a rescue volunteer. They cover all expenses, but because I afford it, I have never billed them for the four dogs I have served as a rescue for.

However, if one of my rescue dogs had serious health problems, they will cover. Unfortunately, that is why they are cash short at the moment. They took in a few too many dogs with significant health probems, and are now paying the tab.

I suspect all rescues are difference, but once my group takes a dog, regardless of condition, the support the animal.


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## Tina & Dave (Apr 19, 2004)

The rescue I work with has supplied links to the various shelters they pull from and have indicated to just let them know which one I would like to have pulled. They make the arrangements and pay all the costs invovled. The dog is vetted in Ohio and then transported to Ontario. The gal that runs this rescue is a vet tech and all dogs go to her first for a second vetting at the clinic she works for and then from there to the foster home. Right from the beginning she asked home many dogs would I be comfortable fostering at one time and what is the township limit. Once a potential adopter has been pre-approved for adoption they then deal directly with the foster parent with regard to the dog in question. Who else knows the dog better than the foster parent. If the dog is a suitable match for the adopter, on adoption day the co-ordinator, foster parent and new adopter all meet for signing of the papers. 
Tina


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## mmiller (Mar 13, 2001)

As many of you on the board know, I run GSD Rescue of Central Indiana. I do this out of my home, which has been in my family for over 100 years. I have 4 acres set up with indoor/outdoor kennels for the rescues and several 1/4 acre pens for my personal (12) dogs...I can comfortably house 15 rescues before I go nuts....I have one foster person that I trust with my life...and that is all I have. It is just me and Pat. 
Most of my personal dogs are rescues that had to stay here for one reason or another. Ex: Rocki: arrived here at 5 months old weighing in at a whopping 22 pounds. Suffering for what we thought was EPI but with several months of enzyme treatments and proper diet he is now able to eat low fat food without any flare ups and no enzymes...can I place him and truely know that I am not passing along a "problem" for life? no. SO he will remain here. Others have had aggression issues or hip issues or this and that...but for what ever the reason they were just not adoptable but yet not dogs that should have been put down either.
I can see how Ruth's situation got out of hand. Seeing so many dogs in need and so many people asking you to help can be overwhelming at times...sometimes you feel like you must keep up your end and just keep doing and doing....then before you know it...you are over your head. I see from a "rescues" point of view how this sort of thing can happen...now on the flip side, there is NEVER EVER an excuse for neglect...I REPEAT NEVER. 
I want to say that the reason I have the dogs at my home is to get a true feeling for the proper placement. Pat and I have both scratched our heads at times seeing the number of foster homes some of these rescues have...where on earth are they finding all these foster homes? Because I can tell you that Pat has been the only one who has ever came back for more...LOL...most foster for a short time then they get the heck out of DODGE!


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## Foo Lyn Roo (May 16, 2007)

God this is a great topic.
We have our existing GSD and just rescued a gsd girl 4 days ago and I find myself smacking my hands to stay off the adoption/foster pages.
ARguing we have more than enough room, knowledge and patience to at least FOSTER more.
But I won't do it. I know i'd want to rescue them all and it would kill me inside.

I think if someone approached me with dire need i would try to help out as a foster, but that's it.

Two dogs is plenty, anymore for my family personally.. I don't think we can give each their due attention.


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