# Low thyroid and skin problems



## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

I've just taken in a rescue dog (owner returned him to the breeder) and he has low thyroid. His skin and coat condition are HORRIBLE! The owner had him diagnosed last year and has apparently been _buying_ the thyroid supplement, but I don't know if he's been getting it, or getting it consistently.

Have any of you dealt with this type of skin problem associated w/low thyroid? Any suggestions on how to make him feel better til the medicine kicks in? I have an appointment at the vet's later this week, but we decided there was no point in blood work until he's been getting the medicine regularly for a month...


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

I would test now. You really need to know if you're giving the correct dosage of thyroid meds.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I don't think they need to Joanne, since they don't know if the meds were given, the blood test won't give much new info. Does that make sense?

What is the dog's current weight, and what dosage are you currently giving? 

Those are just abut the worst pictures I've ever seen -- how terrible. There isn't any chance this is also infected? Is this all thyroid? Wow, some people should be shot.

I would add some fatty acids. My personal favorite is fresh ground flaxseeds, or something like Missing Link. Some dogs will do well with fish oil.


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

Makes sense Lisa. Which brand of med are you giving?


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Is hypothyroid the only issue? He looks pretty thin for a possibly untreated hypothyroid dog. Has he had his skin checked for a bacterial infection?


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## raysmom (May 22, 2004)

I don't have any advice, but just to show you the difference thyroid meds can make, here are the "Before" and "After" photos of "Draco", a dog who had been treated for almost every allergy possible with no improvement and returned to the shelter twice because the families couldn't afford the special diet he supposedly needed (but really didn't) - and then thankfully a vet suggested testing his thyroid - and that was the root of his whole problem - a very minimally functioning thyroid! It's hard to believe it's the same dog - but I know for a fact, it is - and these photos were taken about 3 or 4 months apart!

*BEFORE THYROID MEDS *











*AFTER THYROID MEDS
*


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

OMG Thyroid does this? I heard of someone whose dog looked like this locally and the vet was clueless I beleive they put it down. They thought it was cancer. How disgusting.


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

Since he hasn't been into the vet's HERE, I'm not sure about his weight, but he's LARGE. And _her_ vet's records had him at 90 lbs. Very tall and long-legged. He's on .06mg of soloxine per day (1/2 each meal). 

He was being fed Gravy Train







and she said he hadn't been eating well. He's been eating fine here, and I've just about got him switched to a better food. I'm giving him the medicine in cheese, to make sure he gets it.

She returned him for aggression issues, and I DEFINITELY saw that when I picked him up. Not towards her, but AROUND her. But she was so tense, expecting him to act up, that it's not too surprising. So I'm taking it VERY slow with him, not pushing to handle him a lot or poke and pry. He's not had any issues so far, once I got him home. I've only had him since Sunday...

Anyway, hopefully someone will have some good ideas about how to help keep him comfortable until he heals up. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Oh, forgot to say, I add fish oil to his food, too. All my dogs get it and I take it too!







Since she'd had issues with the aggression, he'd been living on a ranch while she was living elsewhere (I think I've got that right) so maybe he just wasn't getting fed consistently.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

That's waaaaay too low a dose (even at .6mg, which I think is what you meant). Starting dose should be .1 mg per 10 pounds, TWICE a day, and then modify per blood tests. For example, Max, at 75 pounds, gets .7 mg twice a day. Indy, at 33 pounds, gets .2mg twice a day (we started her at .3mg twice per day).

So this dog should start at .9mg twice a day, or at least, in the meantime, give .6mg twice a day and then test. I wonder if he's 90 lbs right now?

If you can, try and give the meds away from food, and away from calcium and iron (preferably no cheese!), but do what you have to -- I give it dipped in yogurt. The aggression is very likely aggravated by the thyroid.

raysmom, those are pretty dramatic before and after pics. Poor dog. Heidi, terrible that that vet didn't have a clue....


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTThat's waaaaay too low a dose (even at .6mg, which I think is what you meant)


Yes, .6mg is what I MEANT to type!







I had a dog before with low thyroid, they started the dosage based on the blood work, by how far it was off of normal. I assume they did that with him, when they tested him. I'll talk to my vet more about that and ask about the dosage.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

It doesn't go by the bloodwork, it goes by weight, and then adjust from there via bloodwork. This is also true of dosing in humans. You can google some of Dodd's work, or any of the vet sites, and they will provide the guidelines. 

It is very possible that the previous owner was giving the meds most of the time. There is a huge difference between .6 mg daily and the desired 1.8 daily. This might also be a huge vet screw-up, though it looks clear that the previous owner didn't seek proper vet care. 

There is another condition that is hormonal and can cause black skin, but with that low of a thyroid dose, I would go with that first.


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTIt doesn't go by the bloodwork, it goes by weight, and then adjust from there via bloodwork.


That is not the best approach, according to my vet. He said if the initial blood work show that a dog was VERY low, they would do the initial dose at the .1mg per 10 lbs that you mentioned, and then adjust again after the next set of blood work. But that if you _over-medicate_ you can cause hyperthyroidism. And I really trust my vet, I've used him for years and he is very knowledgeable. But I guess you COULD skip the first step if it's obvious the dog has severe issues...

We're going in for a checkup today, and to see if we need to do something for his skin until we can get the thyroid under control. Poor thing!







He looks so pitiful!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

The skin issue may have picked up the oportunistic Staph infection. Darn Staph, just lays there and waits for a little opening on humans or dogs and BANG GO, there it is. 

The two ABX that seem to be working well for Staph are Cephlexin and recently saw a dog that didn't respond to Ceph but is doing well on Clavamox.

Val


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

If it is staph, treat for 30 days. If not, it will be back.


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

So, I'm back from the vet's. Fungal _and_ bacterial skin infection. He's sending out blood work (not for the thyroid) because he thinks there is more going on. We'll know more tomorrow.

As far as weight, he is a VERY skinny 95 lbs. Here's two pics of him by my standard-sized bitch, for comparison!







Maybe he's a horse in disguise!


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## srfd44-2 (May 20, 2004)

Check out the past Urgent section for "Coco from Sayreville" He was overweight with skin and ear issues. He weighed in at 140 pounds and when he was adopted he was down to 87 pounds. It took 8 months.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Yep I forgot to say if Staph, don't even mess around with the standard 14 day treatment, go right for 30 days as LJ'sMom said.

Val


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: valkyriegsd
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: LisaTIt doesn't go by the bloodwork, it goes by weight, and then adjust from there via bloodwork.
> ...


Feel free to put all your trust in your vet, no problem.

But did your vet tell you that if you are going to go by bloodwork, that the T4 isn't what you want to monitor, and that you would want to know what the free T3 and the free T4 is to really see what the thyroid was doing. In humans they would also use the TSH, but that isn't so accurate in dogs. However, since there is no such accurate measurement for dogs, there really isn't a right way to dose, via the bloodwork? At this point your vet is guessing about the dosage.

Did your vet also mention that if there is an autoimmune component, then you want to suppress the thyroid further by being sure to give a higher dose? And ideally that is monitored via free T4 and TSH, but, oh, wait, the TSH doesn't work so well in many dogs.

I get what your vet is saying, not wanting to create hyperthyroidism. But if he's only using a total T4, which most vets use, then I would say that _complete _ trust in this vet is a bit misplaced.

Also, .9mg twice a day is probably high, since dosing should be at the ideal weight -- can you feel his ribs?


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: LisaT... dosing should be at the ideal weight -- can you feel his ribs?


Yes, he's underweight and probably needs 15lbs to look healthy.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

In one pic he looked very underweight, in another overweight, I couldn't tell. 

You should be able to feel the ribs, just not see them. 

If he is underweight, the dose will need to be increased once the weight comes back on.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

What meds did the vet start him on for the bacterial and fungal infections? Also, what tests did they send off for? Just being curious. When you get weight on him, though, he is going to be a beast! How tall is he?


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## pnut (Aug 27, 2009)

well i dont know much about dogs and sicknesses but my dog is 8 and her legs are starting to turn black and its going allway up to her but should i be worried


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: jaggirl47What meds did the vet start him on for the bacterial and fungal infections? Also, what tests did they send off for? Just being curious. When you get weight on him, though, he is going to be a beast! How tall is he?


Here's a pic of him from the top. Skinny, but doesn't look TOO bad. But he really needs some muscle.










I measured him (roughly) at 29 inches...







a moose! The vet is doing a D1 comprehensive profile. He was concerned that there might be liver or kidney issues. Also checking for parasites. He prescribed Cephalexin and Detoconazole for the skin.


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: gdawgwell i dont know much about dogs and sicknesses but my dog is 8 and her legs are starting to turn black and its going allway up to her but should i be worried


Maybe if you post some pics, someone can offer advice. Have you talked to a vet or breeder?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Max is 27", if I recall, and a thin 75 pounds. The waist on your boy looks good. Remember, lean is better! Ceph is tough on the digestive system, in my experience, probiotics between doses should help!!

gdawg, welcome to the board! Definitely post some pics if you can, but it sounds like your dog is starting with some kind of issue or infection. I seem to recall that the thyroid black skin almost always involves the belly sking, but that could be really wrong. I would act before it progresses!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*********
Check out the past Urgent section for "Coco from Sayreville" He was overweight with skin and ear issues. He weighed in at 140 pounds and when he was adopted he was down to 87 pounds. It took 8 months. _________________________~ Kathy 

*********

I couldn't find the thread, even tried google. Anyone have better luck?


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

Here it is

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=916646&page=7


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Thank you Joanne, you're a star









Okay, so now I'm confused about the weight thing. I don't know, but my gut instinct is saying that 15 lbs more is too much for this boy, and would be unhealthy. He looked great in those 87 lb pics (thanks Kathy for the history!). 

I couldn't find the reference to the age? I appear to be having great difficulty finding stuff in this thread!


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTOkay, so now I'm confused about the weight thing. I don't know, but my gut instinct is saying that 15 lbs more is too much for this boy, and would be unhealthy. He looked great in those 87 lb pics (thanks Kathy for the history!).


I think two dogs are getting confused here. The other post has NOTHING to do with Indie, other than thyroid issues being discussed. The pics in this thread are the only ones of Indie, I've only had him since last Sunday. Indie is 3.5 yrs, 29 inches at the shoulder, 95lbs.

15 extra probably IS too much though. Not sure yet, since what he really needs is MUSCLE, and that weighs more. I'll just have to judge it as he gains. I _like_ a waist on dogs!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Oh, okay, I read Kathy's post entirely wrong - the other dog was an example of the thyroid thing! Geez, what a goof - I thought this was getting weirder by the minute, but I get it!! 

Keep us posted on Indie's progress - be sure to take pics along the way!


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