# A trainer told me a horrible story about pet food....



## NYCgsd (Apr 23, 2016)

Was talking with a trainer, she has 30 years of experience. She told me that pet food companies use euthanized pets in some of their food. Millions of pets are euthanized every year, as gruesome as it sounds, that's a lot of meat. I don't know if I should believe her or not, then I did a google search and this story has been circulating for years. She advised me to only buy pet food made in Canada, they have strict laws that forbid the use of any sick or euthanized animals. She reccomended Open Farm pet food, she said you can scan the label and each bag will tell you where the rice was grown, where the potato was farmed, where the beef was raised, stuff like that.

I just would like to hear some thoughts on this. Sounds disgusting and hard to believe.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

They use rendering plants to supply ingredients. Rendering plants use road kill, euthanized pets, diseased animals, etc. you can google rendering plantscto get more info. FDA approval means nothing to me.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

This is half-true. About 20 years ago (90s) there was an FDA report that found traces of animal euthanasia drugs in several pet food brands, including Nutro and several cheaper brands. At first, no one knew what kind of animals (sick livestock, zoo animals, or shelter dogs and cats) at the time, so the FDA pursued DNA testing and eventually ruled out the presence of dogs and cats. So you can forget about dog and cat meat in your pet food. However, the presence of these drugs did signal the use of very poor quality protein (from sick livestock, most likely). I vaguely recall the test was repeated more recently, and none of these drugs were detected again, but I don't have a link for that. If you poke around on FDA.gov in the archives searching for "pentobarbital" and "pet food" you should find a lot of the old documents.

Here's a short summary of the incident that you should share with your friend/trainer, so that they have accurate info:
Food and Drug Administration/Center for Veterinary Medicine Report on the Risk from Pentobarbital in Dog Food

ETA: Here's the original FDA survey of brands, listing them by name...
http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Centers...VM/CVMFOIAElectronicReadingRoom/ucm129135.htm


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

The latest on the subject of adulterated ingredients from Susan Thixton, 
"Truth About Pet Food" The Last Piece of the Puzzle ? Truth about Pet Food quoted in part:

As it turns out, Kansas *doesn’t separate themselves* from their revenue producing responsibilities; it turns out that Kansas – like every other state – neglects their enforcement responsibilities with pet food.
Kansas state law is just like federal law. Kansas law defines food as _“articles used for food or drink for humans or other_ _animals”_. Kansas law, just like federal law, defines an adulterated food (in part) as (bold added) _“A food shall be deemed to be adulterated: (a) (5) it is the product of *a diseased animal* or *an animal which has died otherwise than by slaughter*”_.
Numerous pet food ingredients – which are sold in pet food in Kansas (and every other state) *– are allowed to be sourced from legally defined adulterated sources* such as _“an animal which has died otherwise than by slaughter”_. Just a few of those common pet food ingredients are Animal Fat, Animal Digest, Meat and Bone Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, and Chicken By-Products. Just a few of the popular pet foods sold in Kansas that include these ingredients are Beneful, Pedigree, and Meow Mix.http://truthaboutpetfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/coloredpuzzlepiece4.png


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Yep. What others have said.

Any dog food that uses "meat" or "meat by-products" can contain this. 

You can avoid this by choosing a food that uses named meats like "chicken" or "chicken meal".

There are plenty of good dog food companies in the USA that go above and beyond FDA standards. 

IMHO every dog owner should put some time and research into the dietary needs of canines. And any company that you choose to purchase food from. 

There are many opinions on ingredients in dog food. Thousands of choices. Commercial kibble. Commercial canned. Commercial dehydrated. Commercial frozen. Home cooked. Raw. Grain free. 

Some people don't think dogs should have any grains or vegetables - only meat. Some feed their dogs vegetarian diets. Some are worried about arsenic in rice. Some about mercury in fish. Some feed only red meat. Some only organic. 

The two most important things in dog ownership IMHO are training and diet. 

As far as diet is concerned my philosophy is - as many whole real foods as possible and variety. When using commercial trust for the company is paramount.

Most dog foods have a 1 800 you can call. I suggest everyone give a call to their brand of choice. I've had results doing that every where from a disinterested call center worker who was only vaguely aware that their company made pet products and had to look up vague canned answers to my questions all the way to having an hour long phone call with the founder of the company talking about ingredient sources, the products, and safety protocols, and even had the founder then send a follow up email asking how my dog and i liked the products - remembering my dog by name and his health issues. 

Guess which company I send my money too?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Use a quality dog food and you won't run into that. I stay away from food hysteria, do research and make informed choices.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, yeah, stay away from meat and bone meal, and animal fat. 

But maintaining the proper protein and fat values listed on the labeling would be difficult if you had pig in this batch of dog food and road kill deer in that. So I dunno, I doubt it is as widespread as the accounts seem to make you believe. 

I did hear once that beef on the range that freezes to death, is harvested and rendered and turned into dog food. 

The whole reason corn is such a bad product is that the corn in dog food isn't the stuff they would feed to humans, it is the crap that can't go anywhere else, and thus the moldy corn and aflo-toxin. And foods with corn generally have a lot of suspect ingredients. Makes sense that the meat would also be that which would be hard to sell to humans for human food.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Food pets die for - by Ann N Martin will give a spin on what is FDA "approved"
There is (in the book, as I have read) a rendering plant in Quebec (at time of publishing) that took euth'd dogs and cats from vet clinics, kill shelters/HS...etc. These animals were churned into a recycled product.


This plant was (or is still) owned by Maple Leaf Farms...the makers of sandwich, hotdogs, and fresh meat products.


According to her book.
short vid...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnAudwjsAUU


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yeah it makes you not want eat.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The FDA sets very low standards, I don't count on anything they say or approve. I'm more likely to use something they don't approvd because chances are it has higher standards that they don't want to mess with. I pretty much don't like them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If they do not approve it, I don't know how you can buy it. Maybe if you go to a local farm?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

LOL - Soylent Green. Why stop with pet food if you don't trust the FDA? Arrgh!!! We're eating our own dead if we eat a hot dog or hamburger!!!!

Silly. We're not there yet. The only one's I would mistrust are the small mom & pops that sell to "locals". Everyone else has such a mega supply - hundreds of millions of tons per day - no corrupt vet with more freezers than examining rooms or highway patrol picking up road kill are going to get into the main - not unless they want to pay someone all that extra labor/refrigeration and shipping/storage fees in doing these unspeakable things. Spook stories.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> LOL - Soylent Green. Why stop with pet food if you don't trust the FDA? Arrgh!!! We're eating our own dead if we eat a hot dog or hamburger!!!!
> 
> Silly. We're not there yet. The only one's I would mistrust are the small mom & pops that sell to "locals". Everyone else has such a mega supply - hundreds of millions of tons per day - no corrupt vet with more freezers than examining rooms or highway patrol picking up road kill are going to get into the main -* not unless they want to pay someone all that extra labor/refrigeration and shipping/storage fees in doing these unspeakable things. Spook stories*.



Huh???? They don't pay for it...they get paid for it.
The mega supply you refer to is sorted between fit for human consumption (loose term) and not. Where do you think the "not" goes.
Yeah spook stories. Video footage wouldn't dispel. No.


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## NYCgsd (Apr 23, 2016)

Quinnsmom said:


> The latest on the subject of adulterated ingredients from Susan Thixton,
> "Truth About Pet Food" The Last Piece of the Puzzle ? Truth about Pet Food quoted in part:
> 
> As it turns out, Kansas *doesn’t separate themselves* from their revenue producing responsibilities; it turns out that Kansas – like every other state – neglects their enforcement responsibilities with pet food.
> ...


Im a bit confused...Kansas? She told me Canada has strict laws when it comes to this stuff. Im really thinking about going the raw route, and maybe mix in some of the Open Farm she suggested. But I'm guessing a 50 lb bag of dog food is a lot cheaper than 50 pounds of organic meat.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Honestly. I look for food that at least names the animal contained within. Chicken,Beef. Yadda yadda. No "meat" or "poultry" cause that can be any mammal or bird. 

But to be honest. I have raised plenty of dogs on food that this board would find abhorrent. They have all lived the same amount of time of those that feed super premium or RAW. I don't have dog with allergies, loose stool, poor coats. They all look and feel super healthy. So I have a hard time buying into the new craze of "grain free" and RAW, and this and that. 

My dogs have all been athletes or working dogs. 

Feed the best food you easily afford. Don't feel bullied into a food that costs more a week than your personal groceries.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> If they do not approve it, I don't know how you can buy it. Maybe if you go to a local farm?


That's where I go for my dogs or I get from people that get it from local farms that use no hormones, etc. I'm not a big red meat eater(maybe twice a month), mostly chicken. My chicken and red meat comes from a farm also. I very rarely go to a grocery store. I just found a farm that carries the good stuff. It's to far to travel weekly, so I just have the meat shipped.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Stonevintage said:


> LOL - Soylent Green. Why stop with pet food if you don't trust the FDA? Arrgh!!! We're eating our own dead if we eat a hot dog or hamburger!!!!
> 
> Silly. We're not there yet. The only one's I would mistrust are the small mom & pops that sell to "locals". Everyone else has such a mega supply - hundreds of millions of tons per day - no corrupt vet with more freezers than examining rooms or highway patrol picking up road kill are going to get into the main - not unless they want to pay someone all that extra labor/refrigeration and shipping/storage fees in doing these unspeakable things. Spook stories.


The FDA does not care what goes into anyone. They think it's ok for some dog food companies to use antifreeze? Dyes that are cancer causing and banned in other countries are approved in the good ole USA


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

And I'm pretty sure that the vet I worked at supplied unclaimed euthanized animals to these plants. It was a completely different truck that picked up those animals versus the ones that were being cremated and returned to the owner. They didn't even put them in bags, all the dead dogs were piled on top of each other. I walked out one time and was face to face with a deceased samoyed that was eye level in the pile. I will NEVER forget that dogs face.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Dead Dogs and Cats Use to Make Meat Meal

Rendered Products In Pet Food - Dogs Naturally Magazine


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Where I live, there is indeed an unmarked truck that comes and picks up the deceased animals every day from the local vets. 

It is a husband and wife that cremate the remains. The same place that everyone who wants their pets ashes back. There was some big beef a few years back because this relatively new service set up with the latest tech on 20 acres right next door to an up and coming 5 acre per lot subdivision. 

Just as with modern day cremation funeral homes - their facility is zero emission. They do take the ash remainder and bury it on their property to prescribed depth and mix so it will integrate back with natural processes. This operation has been here for 10 years now - and believe me - they have several people looking out binoculars and every other way to try to bust them out of the neighborhood.

Never one violation - never a problem. The vets charge you for their service when you have an animal put down here. Those people are making very good money and are doing their job the right way. No shifty trucks coming up and no strange doings.


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## NYCgsd (Apr 23, 2016)

Stonevintage said:


> Where I live, there is indeed an unmarked truck that comes and picks up the deceased animals every day from the local vets.
> 
> It is a husband and wife that cremate the remains. The same place that everyone who wants their pets ashes back. There was some big beef a few years back because this relatively new service set up with the latest tech on 20 acres right next door to an up and coming 5 acre per lot subdivision.
> 
> ...



On a side note, when my cat died I buried him in a park under a tree. The park was right next to a human cemetery. I thought it would be ok.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

What everyone forgets is the astronomical number of unwanted pets that are put to sleep daily at shelters. Where do you think they go? There are lots of people that choose not to get their pets ashes back too.Does anyone really think that shelters and/or vets are going pay out of their pocket to have all these pets cremated? Why would they? There are different prices at the vet for just euthansia, private cremation, group cremation for a reason. You will get no more and no less then what you pay for. They pay a very nominal fee to have a truck come out to pick up these unwanted animals. The rendering plants are really making the money if you think about it. They get paid to pick up the animals and paid for the product. The only thing they have to be able to do is sleep at night...


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

llombardo said:


> What everyone forgets is the astronomical number of unwanted pets that are put to sleep daily at shelters. Where do you think they go? There are lots of people that choose not to get their pets ashes back too.Does anyone really think that shelters and/or vets are going pay out of their pocket to have all these pets cremated?


They go to the landfill, at least they do in my city and pretty much all cities in my state. I know this for certain. I've talked to the shelter employees who drive the landfill run a few times a week, and they've been seen at the landfill dumping a load of black trash bags piled high. Same goes with vets here (again, I've had this conversation in pretty graphic detail with vets and techs who are extremely forthcoming with me): if you don't pay to cremate, the body is going in the dumpster on trash day because there's nothing making that illegal here.

Again, NO dog and cat DNA was found in pet food when the FDA tested. Zero, zip, nada. Yes, some mfrs must have been using meal with 4D livestock because of the pentobarbital detected (which is bad enough). If dogs and cats end up at a rendering plant, they are likely going in meal shipped to hog farms, as they feed hogs _anything.

_Oh, and you don't automatically solve this concern about tainted meat by feeding raw (you just shift the worry to other areas). A significant portion of the worldwide beef supply (including in the United States) is tainted with other animals (a real problem for those of us with allergy dogs):
You don?t know if that?s beef: The animals mixed into your meat might shock ? and disgust ? you - Salon.com


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I worked at a vet, so I know different. I also work in the garbage industry for 10 plus years now. I can say that is not the case(truck loads of deceased animals going to landfills), at least here. As far as hog feed, I work with several companies that work with hog farms to supply their excess product to these farms for feed. It reduces the garbage bill tremendously. One company had at least 12 tons of product three times a week, once they got into that program they went down to 10 tons a week for waste--the rest goes to the farm.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GatorBytes said:


> Huh???? They don't pay for it...they get paid for it.
> .


There is so much misinformation in this thread.

I deal with several butchers for raw suppliers. Let me assure everyone that these butchers PAY rending companies to haul away the waste products.

Waste products are anything they can not sell. Blood, intestines, HEARTS, LIVERS, KIDNEYS, TRACHEAS, etc.

They PAY $75 per barrel of waste. Fact. Prior to being charged, the rendering companies were picking it up for nothing. however, they couldn't stay in business doing it for free.

And this is why they are so eager for people like me to buy the by-products directly from them.


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## sourdough44 (Oct 26, 2013)

There may be a sliver of truth mixed in, original poster. Just skimming through, but I have to run every bit of advice through a filter, even if it comes from someone with '30 years experience'. I have over 30 years worth of dog ownership experience, is that worth anything?

I've received advice from a few breeders that I KNOW was bogus. Different things work for some, but not others.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

gsdsar said:


> honestly. I look for food that at least names the animal contained within. Chicken,beef. Yadda yadda. No "meat" or "poultry" cause that can be any mammal or bird.
> 
> But to be honest. I have raised plenty of dogs on food that this board would find abhorrent. They have all lived the same amount of time of those that feed super premium or raw. I don't have dog with allergies, loose stool, poor coats. They all look and feel super healthy. So i have a hard time buying into the new craze of "grain free" and raw, and this and that.
> 
> ...


bingo


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Agree with Jax, there is a lot of misinformation and "Shock & Awe!" statements that spread like wildfire. 


But if the same people waving their arms about pet food ingredients enjoyed bacon for breakfast, or feel holider-than-thou because they bought raw pig hocks from Walmart, perhaps they should dig deeper before pointing fingers.

This is a worthwhile, researched write-up. 
http://www.jhsph.edu/research/cente...ure/_pdf/research/clf_reports/animal_feed.pdf


I had this bookmarked from a few years ago, when our feed mill was seeking feedback regarding alternate formulas for poultry feed. Skim through what doesn't interest you, but this is real. 


_Excerpt:_
*Ingredients from animals that may have died otherwise*​ 


_*than by slaughter—*Animal by-products can also_​ 


_be obtained from animals “that have died otherwise_​ 
_than by slaughter” (FDA Compliance Policy Guide_​ 
_7126.24). Animals that have died otherwise than by_​ 
_slaughter could include ill food-producing animals that_​ 
_don’t make it to the slaughterhouse, as well as animals_​ 
_that are not food-producing animals (e.g., “road kill”_​ 
_animals, *euthanized companion animals*, other euthanized_​ 
_animals)._​ 
_*The following are examples of animal by-products that*_​ 
_*can be used in feed but need not come from slaughtered*_​ 
_*animals*, according to AAFCO definitions: meat meal,_​ 
_animal by-product meal, meat meal tankage, hydrolyzed_​ 
_hair, blood meal, blood protein, animal digest._​ 


Page 21 on this write-up addresses the OP's original post about euthanized companions.

If these details matter to you, you should go beyond label-reading, and actually meet farmers. If these details don't matter, that's fine too, but the information is out there for the taking.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Isn't road kill actually pretty healthy? We have a sign up for moose road kill in the state and plenty of humans enjoy road kill moose every year. 

Depending on what the animal ate, it can be organic, certainly free range, and the animal was probably humanely raised, by any standards. 

Seems to me roadkill isn't a bad source for meat, in general.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

We have deer around here. Used to be road kill deer went to hospitals, poor establishments, and orphanages. But I think there are laws now. 

Personally, I think road kill should be gathered, and dropped at prisons. Prisoners, can butcher them and use them and package them for their kitchens. You go to prison, you get mystery meat. Don't like it, don't get in trouble.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

My SO and his family are from rural Pennsylvania and have picked up retail deer before. The conditions have to right. They'll only take it if it is winter, if the body is still warm, and if the deer has sustained little body damage. It's worked well for them .


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Muskeg said:


> Isn't road kill actually pretty healthy? We have a sign up for moose road kill in the state and plenty of humans enjoy road kill moose every year.
> 
> Depending on what the animal ate, it can be organic, certainly free range, and the animal was probably humanely raised, by any standards.
> 
> Seems to me roadkill isn't a bad source for meat, in general.


It is next to impossible to get moose meat unless you know a hunter. It's one of the proteins that my dog with allergies can have and I can't get it anywhere.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Either the sheriff's office or the DNR (can't remember which) here has a waiting list that you can ask to add your name to, to be called if there's a fresh road-killed deer and the driver doesn't want it, or if a deer carcass is taken from someone caught poaching, etc. 


I think the same law also applies to car-killed turkeys, but I'm not certain. 


I've hit a deer twice, unfortunately. When you call 911 to report the accident, they ask if the animal is dead, and/or if you can still see it. In both cases, for me, the animal got off and ran off. The responding officers both told me that as long as you call it in, you can legally take it, and the driver gets the first "priority" of the carcass.


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