# New to German Shepherds, off leash training questions..



## SWM (Dec 12, 2012)

Hey I will be picking up my first GSD at the end of the month. I have a wife and 1 year old son that she will be around. My goal is to have her trained to walk OFF the leash with my wife and son while I am at work. They go running around the neighborhood (he is in the stroller of course) and I would like for our GSD to run right by their side the whole time and keep an eye out for them but not run off towards distractions. 

How difficult do you think this would be to train her to do? I know many will stay right by their side but as soon as a distraction comes up they will sprint off after it. 

My plan is of course potty training and crate training starting on day one. Then just begin working on sit, stay, and heel. I guess if I work with her on heeling well enough and not running off for distractions that will pretty much accomplish what I am looking for right?

I love the thought of having a family dog/working dog to be very well behaved and accompany us when we are out and about but not pose a threat to any neighbor kids or anything. 

Any advice for a new GSD owner?

Thanks!


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## runnershigh108 (Nov 23, 2012)

Do you have experience training German Shepherds?


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## SWM (Dec 12, 2012)

Not in the slightest. I grew up with Labs and have worked with one of them a reasonable amount. But this is my first GS


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

100% off lead reliability with real world distractions is a fairly large and long term task. The dog has to first have the genetics to handle this task. You will also have to invest significant time, patience, and training into the dog. If the dog is cut out for it, and you/your wife do your part with training, then in a few years you have the possibility to manage this. Read through the info on how to prepare for a puppy. Find a good trainer that you can trust and start working with them. At this point, I would put this whole off lead GSD personal bodyguard plan on the back burner - it's a lofty goal (don't even know if it is legally feasible - what are the leash laws in your area?), you can certainly work towards it, but I would not make it my primary concern at this point in time.


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## SWM (Dec 12, 2012)

I don't believe we have a leash law but I could be wrong, it is Middle Tennessee. But I am not wanting the dog to be a bodyguard so to speak, I don't want a lawsuit on my hands unless there was a really good reason for it to attack which if that was the case then obviously a lawsuit would be the least of my concerns. But just more to give the dog exercise also and to just accompany them on the runs. It doesn't hurt as a deterent either of course. We don't live in a bad neighborhood or anything though.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

What is the necessity that the dog be off lead? It will still get exercise when it is on lead on the walk. Even with my off lead reliable dogs, I leash them when we are in high traffic areas. Even if your dog is reliable, that does not necessarily mean that external distractions will not pose a threat and cause a liability. In addition, there are lots of people that are scared of large, guard dog breeds - no reason to subject them to a large loose dog. You might know she is friendly, but that does mean everyone else will be comfortable with a loose GSD. There is widespread bias against certain breeds (rotts, pits, dobies, mastiff breeds, GSDs etc). If I have my little Golden Ret. fluffy mix off lead next to me, most people just find it cute and hardly anyone will react negatively to her. If I have my large serious male GSD next to me off lead, I _will_ get a different reaction so that's something to take into consideration. Many insurances have limitations or biases against GSDs and certain breeds. What will insurance say if something happens - also something to look into.


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## SWM (Dec 12, 2012)

Ok ok lol bad idea on the off leash. I just thought it would be neat to be able to train her to do that well off the leash.


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## SWM (Dec 12, 2012)

And you are most definitely right about people being scared of a GSD vs a lab. Haha whenever I take my lab anywhere people ALWAYS want to come up and pet her. I have a feeling people will be a bit more skeptical with a GSD.


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

Yeah, distractions. You don't want a "Fenton". (Notice how he never actually tells the dog to come.)


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

I start my pups at a very young age to be off leash in remote areas and incorporate teaching recall with having fun. Really good treats, like hotdogs in your pocket help a lot. 

I never let my dogs off leash anyplace with traffic, people, other dogs, or in my neighborhood full of rabbits and squirrels, but every weekend we go to our "field" and they get a good run and sniff session.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I am not trying to discourage you from training for off leash work - just that you be realistic with trying to do off lead through a neighborhood with families, distractions, cars, other dogs etc

I love doing off lead activities with my dogs, but I first had to train to make sure recall and obedience was 100% even with distractions. It takes time and lots of training. The dog itself has to be cut out for it genetically as well - some dogs cannot handle off lead. I had this one Golden Ret in the past that was the most eager to please dog I ever had. Did everything I asked when it was just us - but when she saw a new person, she would go nuts and lose her head. I never had her off lead with other people, but we hiked, ran, and walked in remote areas with no issues. 

I have my dogs off lead all the time, but only when there is little foot traffic and when someone is 5-10ft within us, I call everyone back and leash them. It's worked well for us, but I wonder how much off lead time you can get in a busy neighborhood. If you want to go hiking and do off lead once her obedience is solid, that's a different thing. If you want to do obedience off lead for fun or titles, that's a different thing in a controlled setting. But it's a tricky line to straddle when doing this in a neighborhood setting with families, traffic, and liability all around.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

qbchottu said:


> 100% off lead reliability with real world distractions is a fairly large and long term task. The dog has to first have the genetics to handle this task. You will also have to invest significant time, patience, and training into the dog. If the dog is cut out for it, and you/your wife do your part with training, then in a few years you have the possibility to manage this.


I agree. For me the biggest deterrent for my dogs walking down the street off leash is, well, the street! Even if you have the sweetest, friendliest dog in the world who gets along with people and other dogs, or the most neutral and aloof dog in the world who can be relied upon to completely ignore other people and dogs, there is still the potential of your dog going into the street and getting hit by a car. Right in front of your wife and son.  Do you really want to risk that?

My dogs go to off leash parks regularly, but I would NEVER let them off leash in my neighborhood or anywhere else near cars. While they stay close at the park, chase balls and bring them back, I know for a fact they'd run across the street without a second thought if there was a cat or a squirrel over there. I could spend tons and tons and tons of time training them to override their prey drive....or I could just keep them on leash in situations where it might be an issue.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

qbchottu said:


> I am not trying to discourage you from training for off leash work - just that you be realistic with trying to do off lead through a neighborhood with families, distractions, cars, other dogs etc


Exactly.


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## SWM (Dec 12, 2012)

Yea I hadn't worried too much about the traffic it is a closed loop with very little traffic but still always a concern. We had a three legged lab, but she got run over by my dad accidentally, hauling a cow trailer down the driveway. She ran under the trailer. But still definitely a wise concern. We have quite a few areas where off the leash training would be great. 100 acres of woods and farmland we own as well as a couple other areas we go. I guess on leash should be the main concern though of course and then just have her trained for off leash for those special situations on the farm and everything


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I live in the burbs. My 10 month old female does the off leash heel. She is quite responsive to my voice but when she is off leash on the street I have her on an E Collar. I only off leash her in the burbs and hiking trails. Has good recall. I have been training her for about 4-5 months. I used a combo of +R and prong to teach her the heel. The E collar is my remote leash. She is easily distracted at her age so the collar keeps her in place quite nicely. Just proof the dog in an area with high distraction quotiant. EX Dog Park


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

SWM said:


> We have quite a few areas where off the leash training would be great. 100 acres of woods and farmland we own as well as a couple other areas we go.


That would be different - if you've got a large open space area where it would be safe to be off leash I don't see any problem with that. With my dogs I never did any particular off leash training, we just started taking them to off leash parks at a young age, usually at 4 or 5 months old (after they'd gotten their puppy shots), and capitalized on a puppy's natural inclination to follow and be near us. Ours are also very into chasing balls, and are so conditioned to go get the ball and bring it back that they would never even think about just running off.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

I once saw a dog, boxer type, off leash, walking behind its owner who's holding her human baby, crossing the busy San Francisco street. That was an incredible sight to see, the human trusting the pet to be following her in San Francisco!


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## WorkingK9 (Oct 1, 2012)

That is probably the funniest video I have ever seen, and yet I can relate with a dog I have to train now who will do the same thing even when recalled, unbelievably frustrating!


FlyAway said:


> Yeah, distractions. You don't want a "Fenton". (Notice how he never actually tells the dog to come.)
> 
> Fenton the dog! - YouTube


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

You can train the puppy and the important thing from a GSD is puppy is to start from day one. Many things are easier to ingrain in a young puppy than compel an older puppy to do. GSDs are about as bad as labs at pulling and chewing, only they are mouthier and more in your face sometimes. On the upside they are more tuned into their people. But they can be great with kids. Because of breed popularity it is too easy, though to find one with a temperament you don't want. Get the right one and you will never think about another breed.

I went many miles with my kids in strollers and a GSD at my side (enough to wear out several sets of wheels) I always had the dog on lead and it was not an issue. Nowadays you can get hands free jogging leads that make it even easier. Hands free, the ability to quick release or drop the line (had a neighborhood kid dumped out of a stroller when a loose dog attacked the leashed dog owned by the mother pushing the stroller-in a case like that you worry about the baby, not the dog!)

I have dogs who work offlead but if it does not impair work and I am on or near a road, the leashes are on as an added safety measure.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

Off leash in the city / neighbourhood - where ever people are is a bad idea. The main reason - the type of dog you have - a lot of people are afraid of a GSD. 

The second reason it's a bad idea - you NEVER know ... it's still a dog. 

HOWEVER ... if you bust your butt for about 3-4 hours EVERY SINGLE day for about 8 -10 months (and I'm NOT kidding about the time) ... you can have your dog walking off leash beside you. 

I've done it with Kyleigh. It was a long long process, and I started it on day one of her coming home with me at 9 weeks. I live in the city, we have STRICT leash laws, and I'm not about to get fined just so she can walk "off leash" right beside me. 

I've got it down to where I drape the leash over my shoulders and the loop is by my neck and we walk ... Ky has about 2-3 feet of "loose leash" and she heels perfectly. We've built the illusion of "off leash" but she really isn't.

The key thing to remember ... distractions can be deadly ... all it takes is one.

That fenton video ... I almost peed my pants laughing ... that is hilarious!


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## Justaguy (Nov 20, 2012)

Its definitely cool to have your dog walk with you off leash in the street but I would never do that. *You just never know*. Plus its illegal in my state anyways.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It's quite the feat and it will take years of not just training, but maturing for the dog. A female will give you a better shot at it sooner in my opinion, but depending on the lines and the dog it really might not make that big of a difference.

We train dogs to heel, in general when they aren't in heel they're allowed to do their own thing. If you train a very solid heel (schutzhund style) you can say heel and run/walk/jog/crawl and your dog will stay in heel. But when you release it from heel, it will more than likely go and sniff or look at other things, it will just want to be a dog. If you're going to train a more loose (not as strict) heel, then the chances of your dog understanding what you want from it when you're just out jogging (off lead) are smaller. They'll increase as the dog gets older and just gets used to the routine, but for a while as a puppy (up to 3 or 4 years in some cases) it will do what it wants every once in a while.

I have a very social dog. He loves playing with other dogs, he has dog friends in the neighborhood that he gets extremely excited when he smells them in the air. I can slow him down off lead in that situation, but it comes down to saying commands every 3 seconds. He's 2.5 years old. It doesn't bother me in the least bit because I know he's just that kind of dog. He knows heel, he has a 100% recall, but I just don't like him to be running around our neighborhood to go play with his friends.

Off leash work is a great goal, but it takes months and months of practice and sometimes even years. I find huge parks and wooded areas to go with my dog where I'll let him go off lead, but there is no way I would let it happen anywhere near a street...no matter how slow and not busy it is.


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## Dotty (Mar 19, 2012)

Our dog who passed away last year (Saint Dirk) at age 15, walked off leash since he was 2, in a city!
We were even stopped by the police once on a busy street and given a ticket. People were booing the police. After that, sometimes we would leash him but he would carry the handle.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

It is a time commitment - they can be very hard to raise. But the 3-4 hours a day for 8-10 months?

Raising a GSD puppy is a bit different, can be very taxing, it is a breed that needs an outlet for its energy (but so do labs, particularly if you have ever had a field lab!), and ongoing training. I do think an hour to an hour and a half spread through the day in short increments, judicious use of the crate or x-pen, and tethering to you while a puppy are all good things.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

Nancy ... I was unemployed ... so I had all day to do it!


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## bigd3077 (Aug 19, 2012)

Fenton cracked me up!! My 5 month old walks next to the stroller perfectly with her training. She is leashed with a pinch collar. But, the leash is always slack cause she has a great heel...


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Wiva can do off leash heeling with distraction and has a solid recall. It helps that I am definitely *her person*. I am her complete world and she honestly doesn't see a reason to be away from me. She is about 22 months old west german showline female. We hike, run, play off leash in parks, public places, parking lots, rest stops during the way to training/trials/shows. I've never had an issue. It helps that I train her in schh and have been working very hard with her on ob and I have good trainers - all of this accentuated by our very deep bond. We are hardly apart, sleep next to each other, she comes to the office with me (medical office - therapy dog!), of course during my off time she is always there, and I show/trial her so that's the rest of my time...it's slightly creepy ! It's definitely possible, but it takes a lot of work and some of it has to be "in" the dog to allow for this capability.

Oh and I got her at 10-11 months old (she had been at the breeder's kennel till then - minimal socialization and no training), I just let her bond to me for about 3-4 months, then started working with obedience in a fun way, in the last 6 months, I upped the training and introduced corrections, off leash etc., now she and I both feel comfortable with off leash. So it took about a year, plus for her to mature and bond.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Fenton made me laugh...or rather his owner's mutterings...


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

You may be able to achieve what you want, but you have a LOT to do before then. It will take at least a couple of years of daily training to reach that point, and you'd probably need professional training help and constant reinforcement for the dog. You and your wife will have to be significantly involved every day in that training so you both understand your dog's proclivities, weaknesses, etc. NO amount of off leash training is as secure for you as having your dog on a leash.

Based on what you describe that you want, you can get very close to that much sooner by having your dog well trained walking on-leash with your wife and her stroller. Having a dog off leash in a neighborhood requires constant vigilance and scanning your entire visual field for old people, dogs, cats, squirrels, kids, broken glass, disapproving neighbors, cars, surprise distractions, etc. Your wife does not need that distraction when she is out with your child in a stroller.

I walk Liesl every morning on leash through the crossing guards and school kids streaming into the elementary school, for socialization. I wouldn't dream of trying this off leash, as the parents would protest, it is illegal, it is dangerous for the dog and kids, etc. However, every evening around 10 I walk her off leash (but with an ecollar for emergency control of her) in the neighborhood when most of the distractions are gone and she can explore a bit while staying in my vicinity. If you are a "recreational" trainer, like me, you can definitely get to this stage of off-leash activity if you work at it.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

This is a really noble goal. I think with the right dog it can happen- but it will take so much management early on (for most dogs, even the good ones) that is may be beyond what you or your wife are willing to take on. 

If I could do it again, I would have raised my shepherd to be 100% neutral- which is not easy for a dog breed with some reactive tendencies. Even so, I think you at some point need to layer in prong and/or e-collar to ensure reliability. And even then, a running cat may be enough to break that dog's concentration. With the three dogs I have, I know when I need to leash one-two or three, or when I can allow them off leash. 

I love the goal of off-lead reliability in the neighborhood and you MAY be able to achieve it. But I'd plan on training loose lead walking first. 

Good luck, I like your vision. Start with the right GSD, learn from the best trainers, and you may be able to achieve it. Overall, though, even the most highly trained dogs are generally on leash around traffic.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

FlyAway said:


> Yeah, distractions. You don't want a "Fenton". (Notice how he never actually tells the dog to come.)
> 
> Fenton the dog! - YouTube


I'd bet that's the only herding _that_ dog has ever done.

Seeing his master running after him about had me rolling on the floor.


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