# GSD was terrified/gun shy...need some help.



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Last year we lit off some fireworks for the 4th and he was pretty much oblivious. Just a hyper little puppy that wanted attention. This year (yesterday) we went outside and he heard some fireworks going on around us and he was terrified! I never saw him do anything like it, except for when my wife and I argue and sometimes when it thunders (but not nearly this bad!!). But he literally stuck his head inbetween our legs/crotches and was shaking/panting. When I tried ignoring him he stood up and put both paws on my shoulders. When I sat down he had his head buried in my lap. He wouldn't pee, wouldn't eat and once inside he was shaking and panting for about an hour before he passed out. When he woke up an hour later, he was fine. Went out to pee, ate his food, etc. But I did notice he was skeptical of being outside and waited at the door to make sure there were no bangs/pops outside before coming out.

I'm just curious what I can do to work with him on this issue?? My main concern is preventing any possible trauma to him. He really turned out to be a great dog and he doesn't deserve to be in such terror/fear. 

Maybe there's some training we could do with conditioning him to like the bangs/pops instead of associate them with a fear response? I'll gladly take him to the range, adapt our play regiments, etc....I'm just not sure what to do to help him.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! 

Thanks!

-Emt1581


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Our last shepherd was absolutely terrified of thunder, gun shots, etc. We never could help her. Since then I read on the AKC vet's blog that putting a drop of peppermint oil on the pad of each front paw really helps. I've also read in "Getting In TTouch With Your Dog' some massage techniques do as well. Our poor Omy suffered seizures late in life so there may have been some kind of physiological issue with her. Good luck with your little guy- it's a helpless feeling to see them so scared


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Stosh said:


> Our last shepherd was absolutely terrified of thunder, gun shots, etc. We never could help her. Since then I read on the AKC vet's blog that putting a drop of peppermint oil on the pad of each front paw really helps. I've also read in "Getting In TTouch With Your Dog' some massage techniques do as well. Our poor Omy suffered seizures late in life so there may have been some kind of physiological issue with her. Good luck with your little guy- it's a helpless feeling to see them so scared


Sounds like some holistic approaches. I'll try whatever but I'm thinking some sort of conditioning/behavioral work would be good to try as well.

I just feel bad for him because he's such a nice dog. He puts on a show going after birds, squirrels, and deer but he's really a gentle giant. ****, he catches flies and then lets them go! 

Thanks!

-Emt1581


----------



## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Noise phobias like that are sort of a hard thing to combat and tend to be genetic. Meaning that there is something inside of your dog that says to be afraid. Sometimes there can be traumatic events that trigger the phobia (dog outside has kennel or nearby tree struck by lightening...etc.) but just as often there is nothing to point to. 

Remember also that fear doesn't always looks the same in every dog. A dog that is hyper and jumping on people may be showing signs of anxiety and stress, even if it doesn't look like the customary tail-tucked idea of fear.

Basically systematic desensitization and management of the environment are all you can do. It seems that dogs rarely get over noise phobias, rather just learn to cope with them. 

This article has some good information.
Fear of Thunderstorms, Fireworks and Other Noise Phobias in Dogs and Cats


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

JKlatsky said:


> Noise phobias like that are sort of a hard thing to combat and tend to be genetic. Meaning that there is something inside of your dog that says to be afraid. Sometimes there can be traumatic events that trigger the phobia (dog outside has kennel or nearby tree struck by lightening...etc.) but just as often there is nothing to point to.
> 
> *Right, but like I said, no major traumatic events that I can remember.*
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll give it a look.

-Emt1581


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Your best bet is to just crate him when there's fireworks going off. They feel slightly more secure and they can't hurt themselves.


----------



## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

My huge (passed away last year) Rhodesian was fearless, except with loud noises like fireworks, guns and thunder. He became a total wimp when any of those happened. I never could figure out why or cure it. Strange.


----------



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

See I'm thinking if I do some gradual desensitization I can break him of the fear. ****, I've done it with humans for things worse than pops/bangs! Maybe starting with a recording playing of fireworks turned really low...while horsing around outside and then gradually turning up the volume while we're out there....something like that. 

Thanks for the replies! Please feel free to share any other suggestions.

-Emt1581


----------



## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

get rid of him..


----------



## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

lcht2 said:


> get rid of him..


Hah!!! See... somebody here has a sense of humor too!!


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

When you are going to be doing these things keep your dog inside and comfort him or her later on. Or keep them occupied.


----------



## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Jessica, you know we often agree, but comforting a dog that is behaving abnormally is not usually advised. One should not reward certain behaviors. Just enforces it. Keeping them occupied or distracted is one thing... but... you know.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Relayer said:


> Jessica, you know we often agree, but comforting a dog that is behaving abnormally is not usually advised. One should not reward certain behaviors. Just enforces it. Keeping them occupied or distracted is one thing... but... you know.


Its not rewarding. My dog hates fireworks and other loud noises, but we comfort her by petting her and telling her its going to be ok. Calm the dog down and such.


----------



## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Its not rewarding. My dog hates fireworks and other loud noises, but we comfort her by petting her and telling her its going to be ok. Calm the dog down and such.



Yeah, I'm gonna agree with Relayer on this one. Not comforting your dog is a major tenet of dealing with fear/anxiety based behavior. It reinforces the fear behavior. 

Dog thinks- If I act scared...then Mommy will pet me and tell me everything is OK. I like it when she does this, and her attention tells me that my reaction to what scares me was good. So I'm gonna keep acting scared. 

When dealing with established fear/anxiety you generally have to work within their threshold and desensitize. Everything you do has to say "I'm not the least bit concerned because NOTHING is happening here." Obedience or play during these scary moments can pair good things with the fears...but require that the dog NOT be focused on the source of the fear. Dogs have one track minds. Whatever they are thinking about when you reward them (and praise and pets fall into this category) is what you are rewarding them for. For example, petting your dog when doing obedience during a thunderstorm is OK, because you dog is focused on the OB, not the Storm. But petting your dog while they're panting and stressing over the storm is praising your dog for their fear.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Both Kacie and Onyx have thunderstorm fears and because of this, the fireworks booms have them react as well. I totally ignored their behaviors when the pops/booms started on Friday, we continued to play in the yard and it distracted the dogs from the noise. 
By last night they didn't react to the sounds, it does work to just ignore the behavior.
I do give them melatonin if stormy weather is predicted, it takes the edge off, but I didn't want to give it all holiday weekend!


----------



## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

JKlatsky said:


> ] Dogs have one track minds. Whatever they are thinking about when you reward them (and praise and pets fall into this category) is what you are rewarding them for. For example, petting your dog when doing obedience during a thunderstorm is OK, because you dog is focused on the OB, not the Storm. But petting your dog while they're panting and stressing over the storm is praising your dog for their fear.


Could hardly be better stated.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

JKlatsky said:


> Yeah, I'm gonna agree with Relayer on this one. Not comforting your dog is a major tenet of dealing with fear/anxiety based behavior. It reinforces the fear behavior.
> 
> Dog thinks- If I act scared...then Mommy will pet me and tell me everything is OK. I like it when she does this, and her attention tells me that my reaction to what scares me was good. So I'm gonna keep acting scared.
> 
> When dealing with established fear/anxiety you generally have to work within their threshold and desensitize. Everything you do has to say "I'm not the least bit concerned because NOTHING is happening here." Obedience or play during these scary moments can pair good things with the fears...but require that the dog NOT be focused on the source of the fear. Dogs have one track minds. Whatever they are thinking about when you reward them (and praise and pets fall into this category) is what you are rewarding them for. For example, petting your dog when doing obedience during a thunderstorm is OK, because you dog is focused on the OB, not the Storm. But petting your dog while they're panting and stressing over the storm is praising your dog for their fear.


 Thats what I have always have done. Quick pet and a "shush" is usually what I do. I give her a toy, a rope toy and she goes on about her way.


----------



## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Thats what I have always have done. Quick pet and a "shush" is usually what I do. I give her a toy, a rope toy and she goes on about her way.


I doubt that would work with a truly phobic dog. Years ago we had a girl which was terrified of fireworks and thunder. We ignored the behavior (no petting or making a fuss even though we wanted to do it) but took certain steps to help her out - closed all the windows, turned on a radio or TV a bit louder than usual, and gave her a good slug of Rescue Remedy. She was adopted from a shelter and absolutely would not go in a crate - she would however sometimes go under a table! We let her be - the RR worked well for her, and she would actually go to sleep on occasion. 
______________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Its not rewarding. My dog hates fireworks and other loud noises, but we comfort her by petting her and telling her its going to be ok. Calm the dog down and such.


It probably feels good to the human to do this but to the dog it is taken as a "reward" for their fearful behavior. Highly recommended by trainers and behaviorists not to do this comforting.


----------



## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Luna is afraid of thunder and fireworks (and the deadly vacuum  ). She isn't terribly afraid, but I know it bothers her so this year for the 4th we cranked up the TV and opened the door to the bedroom so she could go in her crate if she chose to do so. It also helps a lot that Nova & Apollo aren't afraid of loud noises (Apollo actually laid in the front yard and watched the fireworks), so she is comforted by that.

As far as us comforting her, we definitely don't do it. One of my trainers once had us do an exercise. She told us to say, "It's okay!" and then "Good girl!" The tone used in both instances is VERY similar. Essentially, when you comfort your dog, your dog hears that they're doing the right thing by reacting negatively.

As far as training, I know there are DVDs you can buy for training dogs to accept loud noises (thunder, gunshots, etc.). The benefit of the DVD is that you can start it out with a low volume, rewarding the dog for not reacting, and then slowly work up to having the volume louder and louder.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i'm a firm believerver in not waiting
for a holiday to have your dog
around fire crackers and gun shots.

if your dog has problems with gun shots,
fire works, thunder get a professional
to help.

if my dog had these problems i would stand
100 yrds away or more from
my dog and light fire crackers and shoot guns.
i would do this often (several times a day).
i would slowly get closer to my dog with
the fire crackers and gun shots.


----------



## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Then in Denver you'd be in jail since its illegal to fire anything off here. Sorry but I don't agree. That's like saying put a person that's afraid of snakes ever closer to a snake pit, then throw him in. Deep seated phobias can't be cured with shock treatment. At least not in my book.
________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


----------



## we4elves (May 11, 2010)

Onyxgirl...Melatonin? What does it do and where do I get it...I have a corgi that freaks everytime it rains


----------



## DressageGuy4225 (Mar 14, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> i'm a firm believerver in not waiting
> for a holiday to have your dog
> around fire crackers and gun shots.
> 
> ...


So, I'm new here, but I have to respond to this. We (my wife and I) have 4 dogs now. Just got our GSD yesterday, don't know about him and guns/fireworks yet. But the other 3 are essentially wild/ranch dogs that we turned into house dogs. If I so much as bring out a pistol and drop the mag and clear the chamber the room is cleared of K9's. All 3 have obviously been shot at at some point and will completely unass the area when I bring out any of my guns. I will not subject them to gunfire unless I absolutely have to. If I go out shooting, I will usually leave them up at the house with my wife. Why should I subject my dogs to something that they find terrifying??? Would I want someone to shove my head over the edge of a skyscraper rooftop (I have severe acrophobia)???


----------



## daboyzmom (Jan 29, 2010)

Exactly, DressageGuy, you shouldn't. 

If you are interested in helping your dog...learn to understand your dog. That's where too many humans fail. Check out this site - Thundershirts. They actually work. If you don't want to buy one, you could actually make one yourself. Again, this all goes to understanding your dog and what actually calms a dog. Thundershirt | The Best Solution for Dog Anxiety 

IMHO


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Relayer said:


> Jessica, you know we often agree, but comforting a dog that is behaving abnormally is not usually advised. One should not reward certain behaviors. Just enforces it. Keeping them occupied or distracted is one thing... but... you know.


Excellent advice!!! My soul mate, Echo, had hereditary shyness. We took lots of obedience classes to help give him some confidence. One time when he was acting goofy I started patting him and the instuctor immediately told me to stop rewarding him for displaying improper behavior. Of course he was right, but it was a hard habit for me to break.


----------



## nova50 (Aug 31, 2009)

I trained a Beagle that could run game like no dog I ever saw...but she was always the last to come back. I got a to wondering if she was still looking or just got lost. I later realized after she would run it to us and we got a clear shot....BANG....she hauled and left for a while. I did a little routine of low noise making products like the poppers and play...like tug of war or fetch. She got used to that real quick and then the noise itself with no play wasnt an issue. I slowly worked up with louder things doing the same play while the noise was happening. After about 9 months of training this way she was no longer gun shy.

I cant say it will work for all dogs, even though she would crap at the sound of fireworks. It takes a long time and long hours, but where there is a will there is a way. You have to preoccupy the dog with fun stuff when bad things are around. Dogs are very smart and can figure out through positive steps that its just a noise and wont hurt them. 

My GSD girl fears nothing, she sleeps when I start up the race car, plays with the vacuum cleaner, used to ride the mower with me and jumped from the boat while cruising across the bay....sometimes a little fear is needed or they may be considered psycho


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

My dogs have actually have gotten alot better with their firework situation. Our city had a huge block party and shot off fireworks later on in the evening an dmy dogs did just fine.

So I don't think my comforting them did any harm.


----------

