# Opinion on this breeding?



## GLOCK (Nov 14, 2010)

Hello everybody I'm new to the forum and looking for opinions on this breeding.
Thank you.


SIRE: Wyatt von Hena-C - German shepherd dog


DAM: Taiga Vom Ludwigseck - German shepherd dog

Thank you.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Lots of line breeding on Wyatt, and Taiga shares the same pedigree(Sven and Gotz) as him...


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## GLOCK (Nov 14, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> Lots of line breeding on Wyatt, and Taiga shares the same pedigree(Sven and Gotz) as him...


Is that good or bad?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think if the breeder knows what they are doing it may be ok...but when they are so closely related some genetic flaws may crop up. Allergies, or other health issues. Maybe someone that knows the DDR lines better will be able to help you with the strengths and weaknesses of the pedigree. Stay tuned!


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## GLOCK (Nov 14, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> I think if the breeder knows what they are doing it may be ok...but when they are so closely related some genetic flaws may crop up. Allergies, or other health issues. Maybe someone that knows the DDR lines better will be able to help you with the strengths and weaknesses of the pedigree. Stay tuned!


Thank you


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I think the Grafental lines are great, but that does seem like a lot of linebreeding for a working line dog.

Have you asked your breeder why they choose to do that breeding? All breeders should have a reason why they chose to mate two dogs.


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## GLOCK (Nov 14, 2010)

Andaka said:


> I think the Grafental lines are great, but that does seem like a lot of linebreeding for a working line dog.
> 
> Have you asked your breeder why they choose to do that breeding? All breeders should have a reason why they chose to mate two dogs.


I haven't ask that questions, I'll ask them and post the answer here. 
Thank you.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't know much about linebreeding, (do know this has alot of grafental in it),,but I had a von hena c dog, loved him, he was the best) I also had one years ago, out of grafental working lines, also a really nice dog.

Right now I have a Reiko v hena c granddaughter, she's a spitfire..

I'll have to find the thread, there is a member here who is breeding her female to another male von hena c dog that might interest you.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

here it is
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breeders-chat-place/145584-yokos-diary.html


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

I personally don't like to have Sven in any of my lines, and I've so far been Sven free with the lines that I have right now. This breeder has bred these 2 before, so you might want to see if he can give you updates from the owners of their past litter(s), as well as ask why the 2 were paired up and go from there. The line breeding on this litter will be,

5 - 5............................................. in V Alf vom Körnersee
4 - 4,5........................................... in V Götz vom Gräfental
5 - 5............................................. in SG Tapsi vom Parchimer Land
5 - 5............................................. in SG Britt v Böttcherstuck
5 - 5............................................. in V Aras v Gräfental
4 - 4............................................. in SG Olita vom Gräfental
3 - 3............................................. in V Sven vom Gräfental


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

That is a 3-3 linebreeding on Sven and a 4-4,5 on Götz Gräfental. That is not an overly close linebreeding on Sven. I would still ask why they are doing this breeding because one should always ask that, but not because of the linebreeding.

Pedigree of prospective puppies:
Mating test - German shepherd dog


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The linebreeding posted by Kelly is incorrect. The linebreeding is only:

Sven vom Gräfental 3-3
Götz vom Gräfental 4-4,5


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

HUH, That's what I got off of the PDB. Sorry if it's wrong.


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

Here is the link to the PDB for the litter's line breeding that I got.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/para.utkoma?fadir=556149&modir=497582

Either way, I would ask what his take was on the pairs last litter, and why he paired those 2 up. As I stated before, I don't like to have Sven in my lines, and I've so far been Sven free but that is just me and how I feel about it.


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## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

boeselager said:


> Here is the link to the PDB for the litter's line breeding that I got.
> 
> http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/para.utkoma?fadir=556149&modir=497582
> 
> Either way, I would ask what his take was on the pairs last litter, and why he paired those 2 up. As I stated before, I don't like to have Sven in my lines, and I've so far been Sven free but that is just me and how I feel about it.


Hi Kelly, for those of us interested in learning and in hearing various opinions, would you mind explaining why you don't like Sven in your lines? Thank you.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

My pup's father is Xander Von Hena -C . He also has Grafental lines on his mother's side. I like the Von Hena - C lines. Very pretty dogs.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Wolfiesmom said:


> My pup's father is Xander Von Hena -C . He also has Grafental lines on his mother's side. I like the Von Hena - C lines. Very pretty dogs.


ME too. That is one reason we picked Oso for a stud this time around. I may actually get to me him on Monday, YEAH!


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

Sven has a tendancy to pass off health problems to his offspring, not all the time but it is enough for me to personally not want to have him in my lines if it can be avoided. Sven and Sindy were banned from the SV b/c of too many health problems that were passed onto that litter that they produced. Mind you, This is Just Me personally. There are people out there that absolutely Love Sven. It's just something I don't want in my lines if it can be avoided. Which is rather difficult to do b/c he is in a lot of pedigrees.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

What do you meam by "Banned from the SV"?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Kelly, the pedigree database lists linebreeding in a strange way.

In other words, it is only necessary to say the dog is line bred in Sven (for example.) It isn't neessary to also list that said dog is linebred on Svens sire and dam or grand sire and dam ect...as that is a "no brainer". UNLESS said dog appears yet even more times in the pedigree thru other dogs. 

That is why Gotz is listed too. Since he not only shows in the pedigree as the sire of Sven but also thru another dog in the pedigree.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Andaka said:


> What do you meam by "Banned from the SV"?


I have *heard *that they were not allowed to be bred to eachother again and get registered puppies. (Kind of like they were told, "That is a terrible cross, don't do it again!")


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Granted that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but those are some real homely dogs.
And that breeding looks like it came from West Virginia.
"Say, Fido, is your mother your sister or your aunt or your grandmother, or both?!"


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I assume you mean Sindy vom Schäferliesel? She had 8 litters, 3 by Sven. Maybe they were told not to repeat the cross with Sven, but she obviously was not banned from breeding. Sindy, though, does not appear in this cross, though her littermate, Sally, does. 

Sven sired his last litter when he was almost 10 so I don't think he was banned from breeding either.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

lhczth said:


> Maybe they were told not to repeat the cross with Sven,



I thought that was what I said?


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

Quite a bit of line breeding on both sides


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## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

I figured out how to multi-quote! Woohoo!



boeselager said:


> Sven has a tendancy to pass off health problems to his offspring, not all the time but it is enough for me to personally not want to have him in my lines if it can be avoided. Sven and Sindy were banned from the SV b/c of too many health problems that were passed onto that litter that they produced. Mind you, This is Just Me personally. There are people out there that absolutely Love Sven. It's just something I don't want in my lines if it can be avoided. Which is rather difficult to do b/c he is in a lot of pedigrees.





BlackGSD said:


> I have *heard *that they were not allowed to be bred to eachother again and get registered puppies. (Kind of like they were told, "That is a terrible cross, don't do it again!")


Thanks for the input. I too have *heard *this about the SV. Likewise, I have *heard* this disputed. I don't know one way or another. The ZV scores of Sven (85) and Sindy (89) do not, in and of themselves, indicate a problem. With that said, the negatives I have come across in my limited research concerning Sven typically relate to the Sven/Sindy breedings, not only in regard to hips, but also in regard to, shall we say, an over-abundance of dominance and aggression (at least in the males). Again, this is not first hand knowledge and I am no expert; just information and opinions I have come across. It would be great to hear about issues outside the Sven/Sindy combo. Similarly, it would be great to hear from breeders who use Sven in their lines concerning the positives he brings. According to PDB, Sven had nearly 200 progeny – there must have been some significantly positive things that Sven brought to the table. This should help the OP out. 




PaddyD said:


> Granted that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but those are some real homely dogs.
> And that breeding looks like it came from West Virginia.
> "Say, Fido, is your mother your sister or your aunt or your grandmother, or both?!"


Your post is proof enough that beauty is in the eye of the beholder! "Real homely" was not my reaction at all. To each his or her own.


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