# Non-GSD - Opinion on Ivan Balabanov's Mals?



## AbbyK9

AS the title says. Does anyone have an opinion to offer on Ivan Balabanov's Malinois breeding program?


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## BlackGSD

I think it goes without saying that he breeds great dogs. However I think they are Very expensive. (For Mals.)


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## holland

I think I might have seen a mal from his breeding program and it was a good dog-but yes think they are expensive-which isn't really a problem if you don't mind spending the $-I would pick Ivans mals over another well known trainer who breds mals JMHO


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## Uniballer

I have seen a few, but the only two I have actually met are L'Flair and Austin. Both very nice dogs.


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## AbbyK9

Are there any temperament issues in Ivan's dogs? I have heard some unhappy stories about Michael Ellis's breeding program in regards to temperament. Everything I've seen or heard about Ivan's dogs seems to point toward him producing very stable dogs.

Yes, the prices he is charging are high - $2,000 for a puppy, not counting shipping. That's a lot of money for a puppy.

I'm kinda of preliminary-looking for breeders and lines that I like as I'll be purchasing a puppy in the near future (as in, next year-ish). I like the Ot Vitosha dogs but it's a lot of money to spend on a puppy.


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## W.Oliver

I have trained with Ivan and had an opportunity to watch him work a few of his pup's....I was impressed....but I've also trained with Michael, and his Mals seemed equally as impressive. I am simply not a Mal guy and would suggest my impressions are equal to my experience driving a minivan...I always admire the sports cars regardless of the make & model!!!! LOL


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## wolfstraum

I've seen both....guy locally has a mal from ME - it is EXTREME - not social (partially his choice I think) - very very thin nerved and sharp....but extreme in drives....I have never (most of the ones I know are LE K9s....!) with what I think are good rock solid nerves....a LE friend raised one who was pretty good, went to a SAR home, was good with his kid - but would not have done sport....

the breed is just not my cup of tea


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## AbbyK9

This is exactly what I have heard about the Michael Ellis dogs and one of the reasons I would not consider one. It is not what I am looking for. There seem to be a large amount of sport Malinois out there that have a lot of aggression but that comes at the cost of nerve and temperament. Which is exactly what I do not want - and also why I am asking about Ivan's dogs. He also breeds for sport and while I have seen some nice dogs, I don't know whether they are representative of his breeding program or whether they were the odd ones out.

I have a wonderful Mal right now and would love to get another one like her ... very stable temperament, plenty of drive, but wonderful on/off switch and wonderfully social with everyone. That's the kind of dog I want.

I finally did get more information about her lines (I have her pedigree now) and I would love to have a puppy from the same breeder but they are no longer doing Malinois. They are now heavily involved with Bouviers instead.

I had some recommendations from K9 handlers I know who recommended TriState K9 if I wanted a green imported dog or Triple E Kennels in MD if I wanted to get a puppy. 

As I'm leaning toward a puppy, I am also looking at Triple E but I have never heard of them before. They have a very nice IPO3 female, however, and have three studs (that they do not own) that they are considering for litters in the near future. Two of those are working police K9's and the third is a sport dog. Out of the two K9's, one has some of the same lines as my current dog, the other has a lot of Ot Vitosha (Ivan's kennel).

It seems to be that if I want a Malinois with solid temperament, I need to be looking toward working police K9's in the pedigree to get that ... it's getting as difficult to find what you want in Mals as it is in GSDs. XD The only Mals I've seen locally (there's only a few) were conformation type and had very poor temperament. Not impressed. I'd rather have fantastic temperament and lower drive than high drive and crap nerves. It shouldn't be too much to ask for to have great temperament and great drive.

< / end rant > LOL


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## Castlemaid

We have a Malinois in our SchH club that comes from Michael Ellis' lines. The dam of the dog is a Loup de Soleil dog, but was acquired, owned, and bred by someone else, the Sire a French Import, I beleive. 

I have no prior experience of exposure to mals, so don't really have anything to compare this female to, but this is how I would describe her:

Solidly built and gorgeous, nice dark colouring. Amazing focus and drive for work, obedience, LOVES bitework. Has the legendary Malinois smarts. Learns new stuff lighting fast!!! While I took a whole summer after Gryff did his BH to teach him the blind search, the owner taught her to do it in one session, and the next day the dog was doing blind searches for bites. It was Unbelievable! 

Better know what you are doing - this dog learns so fast, you have no chance to correct yourself if you teach something wrong. 

STRONG and powerful in bitework. At our club we all do a bit of sleevework so we can help each other out when our main helper isn't there (he works shifts). And we are all taken off guard by how hard she hits and how hard she fights for the sleeve, considering that as a Malinois, she has a smaller and lighter build than the Shepherds in the club. 

A bit shy around people, is starting to gain confidence as she gets older ( no shyness whatsoever in bitework though, even if different people she has never seen before work her). 

Is never tired and always full-on. The owner works for a forestry company, outdoors, all day in the bush. He takes her with him. They leave at five am, spend the whole day outside, she follows him everywhere, comes to club in the evening, and the dog is loaded and ready to work, and gives her all. I don't know how this dog would do if she had to stay home crated during the day, for example. 

Is reactive, and will respond with aggression and will bite her handler for what she feels is a harsh and unfair correction. Owner had to do away with the prong and work her on a flat or fur saver. 

From what I see about this dog, if someone knew what they were getting into, I would say she is a nice dog for Schutzhund - but for sure a dog I would recommend only to someone with previous working dog experience.


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## bocron

I've been to a seminar with Ivan. There were a at least 4 dogs in the seminar that were from his breedings. I thought they were all nice dogs, but my experience was watching each work when their turn came up, or playing with a one of the very young ones on the sidelines that was just there to spectate, not as a participant. I liked them overall, but my experience was very structured.


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## crackem

I've seen enough very nice ones from both places, I wouldn't hesitate to get one from either. There are others of course


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## Fast

AbbyK9 said:


> I finally did get more information about her lines (I have her pedigree now) and I would love to have a puppy from the same breeder but they are no longer doing Malinois.


What's the pedigree on the dog you have now? 


Personally I wouldn't worry about the breeder. I would only look at the parents and what they have produced. 

But from listening to your description of what you want, I would take a look at the NVBK line dogs. They tend to be able to internalize stimulation better than most lines, IMO.


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## GSDElsa

Most of my Mal experience has been a bit on the negative side...the stereotypical negative things. However, I train at a FR club and the guy who runs it has a great Mal...someone on my SAR team (who also goes to the FR club occasionally) just got a Dutchie/Mal cross that I also really like and is very stable...and they ironically have the same grandfather (obviously on the Mal side for the Dutchie). 

They were both imported and I've heard some of the dogs in the pedigree and would recognize them, but since I have little interest in Mal bloodlines specifically I would recognize them but can't regurgitate the info. I know prices were pretty low, though. Not expensive to import a Mal.

Also, Bill Dotson, who is a big-time SAR guy in VA is a Mal/Dutchie guy. He regularily imports dogs (and occasionally breeds). He's big on STABILITY in his dogs and is looking for different things than your average sport Mal person. He might be a good person to touch base with as well.

If you are interested in coming out and seeing the 2 dogs at the French Ring club, let me know and I"ll set you up with them.


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## cliffson1

I am leaving right now to train with PD that has two Mals under two years of age that are exactly as Lucia desribes. PD's can take dogs like this and very easily train them for patrol/scent work because of their tremendous aptitude to learn and tireless work ethic. Not sayin they are perfect, but the emphasis on these dogs for working is in the right place. Show/Pet people are not what most breeders are breeding for and the result is obvious in the work world.


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## Ace952

I know 2 top notch trainers out here in AZ that get their Mal's from Ivan. Both dogs are very nice and these 2 guys compete regularly at the National level and do make the world team.

If I wasn't such a GSD fan it would make me consider a Mal........too bad you need a small business loan & a line of credit to afford one of Ivan's dogs though.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Our trainers are Lisa Maze, business partner of Michael Ellis in the Loup du Soleil kennel, and her boyfriend Andrew Ramsey, who bred and trained military dogs at Lackland AFB before moving to the Bay Area, so I've met quite a few mals, some from LDS. All have been very nice dogs, especially Lisa's dog Feist. Rock solid temperament, plenty of drive even at 10+ years old, and if there's a tug toy anywhere nearby you WILL have to play with him! We've been taking scentwork classes with Andrew at their house, and often Feist is closed in one of the spare bedrooms to free up crate space for the dogs in class. The bathroom is in that bedroom, and when Feist is in there the price of admission to use the bathroom is some tug play. Very sweet and social dog, but also extremely accomplished in numerous disciplines. 

Andrew's dog Fusel is from du Ciel Rouge and sired by an ot Vitosha dog. He is VERY intense, a serious working dog, and has been used as a stud for some litters with the MWD program. 

I've also met puppies and older dogs from a few different LDS litters. It's not a breed I've ever been interested in owning, but I've met some nice dogs and would take Feist in a heartbeat, not that Lisa would ever let him go. They have a 3-4 month old puppy right now who is ADORABLE, and such a little charmer - I've wanted to snatch her up and take her home with me many times!


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## wildo

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Our trainers are Lisa Maze, business partner of Michael Ellis in the Loup du Soleil kennel, and her boyfriend Andrew Ramsey, who bred and trained military dogs at Lackland AFB before moving to the Bay Area, so I've met quite a few mals, some from LDS. All have been very nice dogs


Loup du Soleil is Michael Ellis's kennel? In that case- I can say I've actually met an Ellis dog. Just this last weekend dock diving, there was a mal there in the "extreme" division. His best jump was 24'6". The mal seemed pretty solid- though I doubt dock diving is much of a test of temperament. I can say that unlike most of the mals there, this one was collected and not _crazy_ whinny. When they went up to dive, the owner ran him through a short obedience routine on the dock- some focused heeling and about turns. Nothing crazy, but it was tight. Looked nice and the mal was definitely under control. The dog's name was Biscuit, owned by Bob Warren.

Dog Bio Biscuit

(Technically- I am not sure Biscuit was an LDS mal, but given that both Bob and his wife had LDS shirts on every day of the event, and they own a mal, I think it's a good bet.)

[EDIT]- confirmed. http://loupsdusoleil.com/breedings/our-litters/cc/biscuit/


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## Cassidy's Mom

Here's Lisa's dog Feist: Feist du Loups du Soleil | Loups du Soleil

He's also done dock diving and flyball in addition to Schutzhund, French Ring, and Mondioring: Feist Photos | Loups du Soleil


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## AbbyK9

> What's the pedigree on the dog you have now?


Ronja is Nano Casa de Mandingo's x Rechunga Perle de Tourbiere.



> Rock solid temperament, plenty of drive even at 10+ years old, and if there's a tug toy anywhere nearby you WILL have to play with him!


This describes my dog to a T. I very recently got her pedigree and further information about her and she will be turning 10 on 28 December. You would not be able to tell this dog is 10 years old if you met her. Lots of drive for ball / toy / sleeve / any prey object. Fantastic, stable temperament and great off switch.

One of the breedings I am interested in is from Tripe E Kennels in MD. They are going to breed Bilana vom Boxenwolf in January and there's three sires they're considering. One is Cartouche Bobby van Brero. The sire has some similar dogs in his lines as Ronja, he has Kukay's Quatro on his sire's side and Perle de Tourbiere on his dam's. The other two are Crump's Lord Bishop van Mastock, who has a lot of Ot Vitosha in him. The breeder said he was not 100% happy with his nerve but thinks the litter would be find bred to one of his strong, solid females. And the third they are considering is Gizmo Masque Du Noir and I'm not terribly familiar with any of the dogs in his pedigree except Kukay's on the sire's side.

I have talked to that breeder quite a bit and think they're probably a good fit for me, both in terms of what they produce and in terms of price. They'll be breeding a litter in January. I think if I had to chose, I would like them to do Bilana x Bobby but it's not up to me. 



> If you are interested in coming out and seeing the 2 dogs at the French Ring club, let me know and I"ll set you up with them.


Yes, definitely interested. I would want to check out the Ringsport club anyway as I am interested in doing Ringsport with the puppy if we're still in the area then. (We should be ...)


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## AbbyK9

The other female they're planning to breed to one of the males listed above is Negundor Ghuna whose pedigree I rather like as well. 

I don't know if I want a Ghuna or Bilana puppy... too hard to decide. LOL


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## AbbyK9

> The other female they're planning to breed to one of the males listed above is Negundor Ghuna whose pedigree I rather like as well.


The more I look at Ghuna, the more I am leaning toward a pup from that litter. I will be waiting anxiously to hear which of the sires they're planning to breed to.


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## mspiker03

I used to train (herding) with this breeder when I lived in SoCal:
Dantero Malinois

I love her dog Nexxus! All of her dogs that I met were gorgeous! She is involved in more than just herding.


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## BlackGSD

AbbyK9 said:


> The more I look at Ghuna, the more I am leaning toward a pup from that litter. I will be waiting anxiously to hear which of the sires they're planning to breed to.


Going only off of what I can see on their website, I would have chosen the other female.


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## AbbyK9

> Going only off of what I can see on their website, I would have chosen the other female.


Unfortunately, their website doesn't give a whole lot of information on their dogs, or where their puppies go, or what they do with their dogs. Their emails have been long and informative, however. (And independently verifiable, I might add, or I wouldn't consider them.)

Ghuna's pedigree is on PDB here if you'd want to look - Negundor Ghuna - Belgian Malinois

Bilana's is here -
Bilana vom Böxenwolf - Belgian Malinois

Like I said, I would take a pup from either litter and will be interested to see which male they wind up breeding to which of the females and whether either litter will take.


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## AgileGSD

AbbyK9 said:


> This is exactly what I have heard about the Michael Ellis dogs and one of the reasons I would not consider one. It is not what I am looking for.


 I know a Mal from Micheal Ellis that is awesome. Very sound, great drive, reasonable, lives in the house with a Dobe bitch without issue, hangs out in an expen when her owner teaches agility class and does agility, obedience, french ring, dock dogs and other stuff. Extremely nice dog and I'd definitely have one like her


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## RebelGSD

Is Abby still around? Just wondering as she is not in the signature.m


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## Rerun

Abby was rehomed awhile back.


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## BlackPuppy

mspiker03 said:


> I used to train (herding) with this breeder when I lived in SoCal:
> Dantero Malinois
> 
> I love her dog Nexxus! All of her dogs that I met were gorgeous! She is involved in more than just herding.


I know somebody in Missouri with a Dantero Malinois. She does everything with that dog. Well, she does protection sport (PSA), herding, dock diving, therapy work, disc, hiking, and other stuff. Nice dog.


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## AbbyK9

> Is Abby still around? Just wondering as she is not in the signature.


Abby lives with KiwiLRDG, his wife, and their two poodles.


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## mspiker03

BlackPuppy said:


> I know somebody in Missouri with a Dantero Malinois. She does everything with that dog. Well, she does protection sport (PSA), herding, dock diving, therapy work, disc, hiking, and other stuff. Nice dog.


I know the breeder does Ring Sport and herding - and I am sure other things as well.


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## johnkellie

I love my mals I have 4.Bmt's Cole is ring 3 5-6x.Dedra Sue is going to start trialing this spring.My other 2 are pets,but very fun


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## AbbyK9

I have been beyond frustrated trying to find the "right" breeder and dog for me. It seems that breeders that have dogs I like in terms of pedigree and abilities are breeders that I don't like for other reasons ... like lack of warranties, no registrations on the puppies, letting pups go too young, letting inexperienced buyers pick which pup they want, etc. Very frustrating. And a lot of the "sport" breeders don't produce the stable temperament I want. 

Gawd ... it's as hard finding a good Mal breeder as it is finding a good GSD breeder. 

However, one of my LEO friends pointed me to the breeder that his K-9 came from, in Ohio. They do breeding, importing, and training for law enforcement and the dogs of theirs that I've met have all been fantastic, but most of their dogs don't come with AKC/UKC registration. (I'm gathering that this is because law enforcement generally doesn't give a dang about registration if the dogs WORK.)

This breeder will be having a litter of Mals this spring that I'm seriously considering for my next dog.


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## abby

Just to throw a spanner in the works as such have you looked at mohawks malinois, they are in kentucky i think that he has two litters one by outbacks jack and the other by ozzy can't think of his proper name. I think he has quite a few that go into law enforcement as well as ring work etc.


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## Konotashi

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Here's Lisa's dog Feist: Feist du Loups du Soleil | Loups du Soleil
> 
> He's also done dock diving and flyball in addition to Schutzhund, French Ring, and Mondioring: Feist Photos | Loups du Soleil


I might have seen some of their dogs the other day at the flyball tournament. INXS was there. Lots of Mals on their team; they brought 2 puppies. (So cute!) Can't comment regarding temperament, but they were beautiful dogs.


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## BlackPuppy

AbbyK9 said:


> I have been beyond frustrated trying to find the "right" breeder and dog for me. It seems that breeders that have dogs I like in terms of pedigree and abilities are breeders that I don't like for other reasons ... like lack of warranties, no registrations on the puppies, letting pups go too young, letting inexperienced buyers pick which pup they want, etc. Very frustrating. And a lot of the "sport" breeders don't produce the stable temperament I want.


Have you looked at Loup Noir in Indiana? I have two friends that have dogs from her and they do everything and are also service dogs for my friends who both have disabilities. They are not conformation dogs, though. 

Here is one. 
Dog profile for Loup Noir Jasper "Dazzle", a male Belgian Malinois
Dog Gone Happy: About Dazzle

The other dog living in Michigan, works as a brace for a woman with mobility issues. I never asked what she has. But that dog is so solid, she got bit in the but by a reactive dog while bracing, and did not budge.

I don't know about working ability. But they are typical Malinois, at least from what I've seen of Dazzle.!


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## BlackPuppy

mspiker03 said:


> I used to train (herding) with this breeder when I lived in SoCal:
> Dantero Malinois
> 
> I love her dog Nexxus! All of her dogs that I met were gorgeous! She is involved in more than just herding.


Heard good things about this breeder. I know a woman who is a vet in Missouri who does SchH with one of their dogs.


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## Fast

AbbyK9 said:


> I have been beyond frustrated trying to find the "right" breeder and dog for me. It seems that breeders that have dogs I like in terms of pedigree and abilities are breeders that I don't like for other reasons ... like lack of warranties, no registrations on the puppies, letting pups go too young, letting inexperienced buyers pick which pup they want, etc. Very frustrating. And a lot of the "sport" breeders don't produce the stable temperament I want.
> 
> Gawd ... it's as hard finding a good Mal breeder as it is finding a good GSD breeder.
> 
> However, one of my LEO friends pointed me to the breeder that his K-9 came from, in Ohio. They do breeding, importing, and training for law enforcement and the dogs of theirs that I've met have all been fantastic, but most of their dogs don't come with AKC/UKC registration. (I'm gathering that this is because law enforcement generally doesn't give a dang about registration if the dogs WORK.)
> 
> This breeder will be having a litter of Mals this spring that I'm seriously considering for my next dog.



This might be the right breeder for you. 

http://templeofthetree.com


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## AbbyK9

Abby - Mohawk Malinois is actually one of the breeders I have been talking to. I like their dogs and also that they do a lot of training but am a little concerned about the fact that they don't have contracts with their buyers, apparently.

Indiana and California are a little outside my area. I'd like to be able to drive and pick the dog up, rather than shipping. Although I'd consider shipping for the right breeder if I can't find anything within a reasonable distance (something I can drive in a day, with an overnight stay before the drive back, if needed).

@ Fast ... doesn't look like that breeder is planning any litters in the near future.


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## coolgsd

"Is reactive, and will respond with aggression and will bite her handler for what she feels is a harsh and unfair correction. Owner had to do away with the prong and work her on a flat or fur saver." (page 1 post)


I have to judge what level of correction to use on a dog (if any) but if a dog ever turned on me, it would be the last time. I have one dog that did that. He was an un-socialized at about a year and a half. He did not like males at all and after about two weeks of having him, he growled and lunged at me. He quickly found out I was the alpha and we were pals after that. He would still chew a bag of nails and spit them out though. Beautiful and tough but a liability and I had to find him a home with a single woman, who was a strong handler.


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