# I got bit!



## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Dharma and Tessa were playing this evening and I guess Dharma got to rough. Next thing I know a fight breaks out. I jumped up to break it up and got caught in the crossfire. Dharma nailed my thigh- luckily she just bruised that pretty bad, I have the perfect formation of a large, open gsd jaw imprinted on my left thigh in purple. She then got my hand while going after Tessa's neck. All four of my fingers have puncture marks and the pinkie is pretty deep and now swollen. I went to the local doc-in-the box to get cleaned up, antibiotics and get my tetanus updated. 

Of course they reported it, I knew they would. The AC officer came to my house and I couldn't find Dharma's freaking rabies certificate!!! So I got a summons. Yay. Of course he told me it would get dismissed when I got a copy from my vet and showed up with it. I just had to stress that I did HAVE it tonight. Jeeze, tonight sucked.

Anybody have any ideas on where I can get a breakstick, after this I am thinking about getting one and learning how to use it. I have never been bitten this bad before breaking them up. Plus any ideas on how I can PREVENT them from fighting would be nice. Let me say: they don't get into it very often. It is usually playing gone bad although once Dharma thought she was protecting me from Tessa. That was actually the worst fight they have had.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

You don't need a 'real' breakstick. In fact, if you have one you might be accused of dog fighting. 






Watch the video and grab a few of those orange things at home depot or another lumber yard/garden center.

I am sorry to say this. Tessa is getting old and cranky...you need to be more vigilant that Dharma is being careful and not hurting her. Has Tessa been checked out at a vet recently? Check her elbows and hips just to be safe


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Agree about older, painful or vulnerable dogs. 

IF they've started fighting, and if you don't feel like they will listen to you, then they need to be separated until you feel like they will. Normally people say that will be never with two females. I like to feel it out myself. 

I would say contact a behaviorist who can be an extra set of eyes and ears. 

But separate for now. 

Both on strict NILIF. 

I would tell Dharma, listen miss, I don't need anyone protecting me, you need to step off. I don't care that it was just once. Doesn't happen. 

You need to look at your body posture and carriage. Talk about this w/the behaviorist. Remember those teachers who would come into a room and everyone would shut up. That needs to be you now. 

When I learned how to break up a human fight, they told us to pick the kid who was least invested in the fight, and push them off - they will be relieved. *They also told us the best way to stop a fight is to prevent it from happening in the first place.* So who is least invested in fighting? Then with dogs - I do the opposite - the dog who is more into starting things gets my hairiest eyeball. You need to look for the little hints of things and nip them in the bud, Barney Fife style if the behaviorist says to try them together. Bumping, invasion of personal space, eye contact, staring, even herding. Muzzle them if you need to. 

I am a witch on a high horse - very indignant - how dare you - when my dogs think they have the right to overstep my leadership in such a way. 

Right now, I need to do this with two of my girls, actually! 

And sometimes, you can do all of that, more, and whatever a good behaviorist tells you to do...and they still need to be kept separate.


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## TankGrrl66 (Jun 29, 2010)

Well that just stinks! How stressful! I'm sorry you have to go through the AC drama. I personally have been bit by one of my own dogs (he used to be handler aggressive)...he has nailed me on my inner thigh before. I know the purple marks of which you speak 

Give this article a read for next time. There is a video about how to break up a fight by yourself as well...without getting hurt. 

http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm


Or if they fight just hit them with a hose or make a loud noise. Yeah I know, it doesn't always work...but never get your body in there! If they have fought before they will fight again. $#[email protected] happens 

As far as prevention, getting at least one dog to recall out of play works well. That way as the play escalates you can distract at least one dog. Easier said than done. But even if you get them to look at YOU instead of eachother, you have just won 

I always watch my dogs play (as you were), and I intervene if they are turning play into prey or etc. 

Again, sorry to hear about all that!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Oh - that reminds me - one trainer I know has as a training exercise saying the dog's name, treat, over and over so that every time they hear their name, they are into it - not that it will work in a fight, but as you are working on little things to remind them that mom is in charge, that's a good one. I would do like 1 minute training sessions a few times a day, doing different things for each one. Tessa - a geriatric pace, and Dharma would be doing puppy pushups for sure.


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## TankGrrl66 (Jun 29, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Agree about older, painful or vulnerable dogs.
> 
> IF they've started fighting, and if you don't feel like they will listen to you, then they need to be separated until you feel like they will. Normally people say that will be never with two females. I like to feel it out myself.
> 
> ...


What she said!!!! :fingerscrossed:

Also, that video is a very helpful one. Study it.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

That Leerburg article - I read when I started fostering and really appreciated it. I had a foster dog who attacked my own dog. My mother was there and I was yelling grab her legs, grab her legs as she was on the foster's side. She thought I was yelling grab some eggs...I have no idea why I would be yelling that...obviously neither did she! Finally what happened was I got to the foster's legs and was pulling back and fell backwards over the water bowl. The force of me falling on my back finally pulled the foster dog off of my dog (she was grinding her teeth into his skull after not getting through his neck fur - chow neck) and back over the top of me, so my dog could get away. It was terrifying but the only funny part was the egg thing...


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I watched that video and that was helpful. I will have to pick up one of those things. 

DeathMetal- we already know Tessa's hips are VERY bad, so is her spine. And she is at the vet almost monthly she has so many issues. Most of the time they play very well together and Dharma seems to know to be careful. Every once in a while though she accidently hurts Tessa and it turns into WWIII. Tessa is usually the bully and Dharma submits to her all the time. Not in the occasional case like this though. And the one time she thought Tessa was growling at me- HOLY COW, she went for broke on that one. Yeah, she needed to be taught that I do not need her to protect me and certainly not from Tessa. 

Puppy push ups are great idea. Dharma is going to be doing a butt load of them over the next 10 days since she is officially on house quarantine since I couldn't find her stupid certificate. 

It is almost funny though. I can get Dharma off of her and begin to get her attention back on me but because Tessa's hips and spine are so bad and because she gets whooped so bad by Dharma her pride takes a beating. I pull Dharma off and try to distract her and Tessa get up, with her hurt pride and she starts to bark and go after Dharma to put that "uppity puppy" in her place. Then it starts all over again. That was when I got bit. Tessa decided she needed to actually try to put Dharma in her place and Dharma turned to go back after her- got my thigh instead. I grabbed Tessa's collar while I still had hold of Dharma, to keep Tessa away and Dharma went for Tessa and got my hand instead. It would have been over much quicker if Tessa would just accept defeat and let it go. Any ideas on how to sooth Tessa's wounded pride and convince her to just walk away?


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

I am sorry this happened to you. How frightening. I'm with JeanKBBMMMAAN, on this one; strict NILF. 
Sometimes when young dogs play it will escalate but if you're right there almost standing over them a fight can be avoided. The sound diversion, a hand clapping or a firm, "hey" can break the eye contact and issue avoided. Other times you have to grab the escalating one.

I actually enjoyed that first video as I really hate to hear "grab the back legs" for one that's only effective with two people. Secondly like the man said, you may be able to get away with it on a pit but not a GSD, Mali, or Rott. It's a great way to have a dog spin and sink it's teeth into you.

That's a drag that they reported it on your own dogs. But they do that in CA. I wouldn't even go to the doctor as I don't have insurance. I'm kinda a antiseptic wash, hydrogen peroxide, neosporin, butterfly tape or duct tape kinda girl. 
(my last tetnus shot, was a seven hundred dollar bill at the county hospital...fifteen minutes...one nurse one, PA for seven hundred bucks...no more doctors unless I see a bone sticking out)



> It would have been over much quicker if Tessa would just accept defeat and let it go. Any ideas on how to sooth Tessa's wounded pride and convince her to just walk away?


Not to be Mr. Spock and super logical, but dogs don't really think that way. The best thing would be to grab the main offender (quick decision at the time of incident) and remove...even if you have to swing open a closet and toss a dog into it or a bathroom anything. Once Tessa's in that state she needs to calm down and Dharma in her face or visa versa won't help the situation. The key is to be very FAST about it.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Oh Debbi, I'm so sorry. Heal quick!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I don't know what you can do in that situation with your own dogs. My dogs know I will pick them up (I have smaller Chow mixes in my group) and put them in their crate if they push it - once they are warned that they need to stop, if someone does the "last word" thing - I would not pick up a senior, but Dharma would learn she would be going for a little stroll. BUT - I would not do it if my dog was likely to bite me...and apparently she's having an issue there! What I am saying is that they will keep going back at each other until they are physically separated by a barrier. They will not walk away. They are girls.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

No good! Sucks that you had to report it and admitted it was your dogs.  

You don't need a break stick though, they're used on Molosser breeds like APBTs, AmStaffs, Mastiffs, etc. and aren't necessary on a "snapping" breed. They wouldn't help you at all, pulling them away is all you really need. My foster dog attack my little dog a few nights ago and I yanked him off her by his back legs quicker than he could think. Still got 3 punctures in her little head, but I didn't get harmed luckily. I have been bit in the arm breaking up a dog fight before, the wrong way.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Tessa is the main offender. Dharma is just younger, stronger, healthier and has more teeth, therefore she can do more damage. Even now, Tessa is still randomly barking at her. 

I would have a hard time throwing Tessa into a closet or bathroom as I could SERIOUSLY hurt her. Her hips are that bad. Even while walking if she tries to turn around she will fall. I see what you mean though, about getting her out of the situation. Unfortunately fast may not be an option. Poor Dharma may be the one that gets thrown in the garage and she isn't the one starting or continuing it.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I would not pick up a senior. 
But you need to figure out how to get one put away. 

I think a behaviorist coming in and watching...just once...would help.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Tessa may not be the offender...she may be reacting to the intense pain in her hips and spine that the younger female is causing. I didn't mean to intend to toss a senior with those kinda problems. But, you definitely have some girl on girl issues there. Sounds like the play escalates into challenges without seeing it. 

(I have mild ones at my house but I have to stay on top of it as the size difference would end up with a dead dog) Fortunately the main offender is the younger bigger female. 

Jean was much more eloquent than I was.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Well, thanks.  We are definitely on the same page - I always love to watch other people watch my dogs and pick up on things that I totally miss. I'm like wha???? Sometimes it's good stuff too! But I think we get so used to things we miss clues that other people can see.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I am going to have to look into having a behaviorist coming out. I forgot to mention that Tessa got so worked up her nose bled- again. I was so covered in blood and I couldn't tell which was mine and which was Tessa's. Then I had to take care of Tessa's nose bleed before I could even take care of my hand so she didn't get blood all over my carpet. 

And to add suck flavored frosting to the suck flavored cupcake. I had to got to the doctor without a bra on. I wasn't wearing one at the time and my hand was too badly messed up to get one hooked. I am sure I looked like white trash extraordinaire. And of course my house was a mess when the AC guy got here and I STILL wasn't able to get a bra on. What a rotten night. The doc could have at least given me a script for good pain drugs to make it worthwhile!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

:rofl: 
Saturday Night Live - Appalachian Emergency Room - Video - NBC.com

I am not sure what you are saying about cupcakes! ETA - got it - the icing on the cake. Whew. 

I am sorry about Tessa's nose. I saw a VAGSR trainer on that TV interview who seemed good!


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

Sounds like you need a hug. May I suggest a glass of wine? What a stressful time.

I'm sorry to hear that Tessa is having medical issues. Keep that hand clean, polysporin works great.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> :rofl:
> Saturday Night Live - Appalachian Emergency Room - Video - NBC.com
> 
> I am not sure what you are saying about cupcakes! ETA - got it - the icing on the cake. Whew.
> ...


HAHAHAHA!! Loved the video!1 I would have fit right in there today!

Yeah, I saw where I typed the wrong word and the whole thing didn't make sense. So much for my trying to be funny.



Deathmetal said:


> Sounds like you need a hug. May I suggest a glass of wine? What a stressful time.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that Tessa is having medical issues. Keep that hand clean, polysporin works great.


I do need a hug. Thanks. I think I will go take a hot shower now though.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Not a good day for cupcakes.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Having bitches is always fun. They are smart, fast, and sneaky. They can hold a grudge for YEARS, biding their time, waiting for an opportunity. 

This morning I averted a problem without even knowing about it. After leaving Babsy out, I saw poo in the yard and picked it up, en rout back I noticed that Tori made a deposit. I opened her gate and she darted out. I told her to come, and she continued to sniff -- often I notice that they are going to potty and I let them continue, but this time, I lowered my voice and told her to GET HER BUTT BACK in there, which she did immediately. I picked up the poo and noticed a small bit I missed in Ninja's. I LET Ninja out and THEN noticed that I did not shut the gate to the patio/house where BABSY just came out. I quickly called back Ninja and shut her gate before she noticed Babs was loose. 

I think Tori _knew._ Ninja is Babs' daughter and there has never been bad blood between them. But she will be three and Babs will be six in the beginning of August. Ninja has gotten into a scrape with almost everyone already, so I do not put it past her to pick a fight with her mother. But Tori is five and a definite wanna be leader dog. So I have no doubt those two might get into a scrap. But it did not happen. Kind of like dodging a bullet.

I do not have a break stick and do not keep collars on them, but I have been able to separate them if necessary and have not had any bloody fights or personal injuries in years. It was an interesting vid though.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Tessa is no longer able to be fast but the parts about being smart and holding a grudge is soooo true. We were at the dog park a couple of weeks ago, I didn't see what started the incident, Tessa probably got in the face of a smaller dog. All i saw was the other dog take her down. It doesn't take much for her to lose her balance and go down because her hips are so bad. She never seems to think of this when she wants to bark at another dog. Anyway, I was running over there when the other dog jumped off of her and ran off. He obviously felt he had made his point with her. Leave me alone. Well, Tessa was so offended. I had to put her on her leash because she kept trying to go after him. Even once she was on her leash, she kept watching him and never took her eyes off of him. I repeatedly tried distracting her, calling her name and such. It would work for a few minutes and then she would go back to look for the other dog, zero in on him, watch him like a hawk and if he came to close she would hobble to the end of her leash and bark like crazy. She was so ticked at him. 

I don't think Dharma holds a grudge. She really seems to get over stuff pretty quick. She was over the fight by the time I was cleaning Tessa's nose up. Tessa OTOH has been holding the grudge all night. Every time Dharma walks past her she barks at her. I have had to stay on her all night to make sure it doesn't escalate again. I finally made her give up her bone and come lay on the floor right next to me. I haven't let her get up since. That seems to have calmed her down.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

I don't know your post history, just going by your signature that says Tessa is a foster dog. What about letting the rescue place her in a more low-key foster home? Sounds like she deals with a lot for her age and health condition.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

She is a foster. Due to her multiple health issues and off and on aggression issues she has been declared unadoptable. Most of our foster homes already have multiple dogs. I am probably more low key then most. Plus, her hips have gotten worse in the 6 months that I have had her. She is also starting to have some continence problems and cannot always make it outside before she goes to the bathroom. Sometimes I don't even think she is aware she is going until she starts to go.She honestly probably only has a year or so left. It would be unfair to her to shuffle her around homes because she is a tough case. I made a commitment to her when I had her pulled from the kill shelter. Yes, initially I expected her to be adoptable and to have less problems but you play the hand you are dealt. Rehoming her is NOT an option for me. Learning to deal with the problem and manage it properly and to the best of my ability is. She has had a tough enough life and been abandoned enough times in her life, I won't do it to her as well. I learned how to deal with her separation anxiety and didn't abandon her when she tore up my fire place screen and destroyed 2 sets of blinds in my windows. 

Most of the time she is sweet and loving. Most of the time she and Dharma get along well and play great together. Dharma is even careful with her and plays much less roughly with her than she will other dogs at the park. But once in a while there is a blow up, like tonight. No matter what, I am with her until the end.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

for the safety of the dogs I would never ever have them together again -- you may be with her till the end but you don't want to hasten that end --- . If she is in so much pain and has health issues she may feel she is fighting for her life . One of them will loose . Or you put yourself in great risk . I wouldn't have her at the dog park either . 
New job for you -- decoy - 
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Selzer said:
_Having bitches is always fun. They are smart, fast, and sneaky. They can hold a grudge for YEARS, biding their time, waiting for an opportunity. _

How true is that!! Bitches who have begun to fight can be a difficult challenge. It is important as owners to take the responsibility to keep everyone safe.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

DharmasMom said:


> She is a foster. Due to her multiple health issues and off and on aggression issues she has been declared unadoptable. Most of our foster homes already have multiple dogs. I am probably more low key then most. Plus, her hips have gotten worse in the 6 months that I have had her. She is also starting to have some continence problems and cannot always make it outside before she goes to the bathroom. Sometimes I don't even think she is aware she is going until she starts to go.She honestly probably only has a year or so left. It would be unfair to her to shuffle her around homes because she is a tough case. I made a commitment to her when I had her pulled from the kill shelter. Yes, initially I expected her to be adoptable and to have less problems but you play the hand you are dealt. Rehoming her is NOT an option for me. Learning to deal with the problem and manage it properly and to the best of my ability is. She has had a tough enough life and been abandoned enough times in her life, I won't do it to her as well. I learned how to deal with her separation anxiety and didn't abandon her when she tore up my fire place screen and destroyed 2 sets of blinds in my windows.
> 
> Most of the time she is sweet and loving. Most of the time she and Dharma get along well and play great together. Dharma is even careful with her and plays much less roughly with her than she will other dogs at the park. But once in a while there is a blow up, like tonight. No matter what, I am with her until the end.


WOW! BIG Congrats to you for takin such good care of an older girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Hope you are healing well.

Not to start a debate but I definitely wouldn't be taking a Senior dog with hip issues to a dog park where other dogs can rumble and tumble all over her. She can get seriously hurt. Fosters aren't allowed at dog parks in our organization. Way to many unkowns especially with a dog that has a history of starting things.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

What Carmen said!!!!...For Sure!!!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

carmspack said:


> (snip) *If she is in so much pain and has health issues she may feel she is fighting for her life .* One of them will loose . Or you put yourself in great risk . *I wouldn't have her at the dog park either . *
> New job for you -- decoy -
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


Completely this.


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## Mom2Shaman (Jun 17, 2011)

What are you doing for chronic pain management to help Tessa be comfortable? Perhaps a daily regimen (or a stronger one?) will help her be a bit more relaxed and the two would be less likely to argue, play too rough, etc.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Another way to deal with fights without getting physical is one of these:

Amazon.com: Sports Soccor Fan Red 6" Air Horn w/ Air Can: Sports & Outdoors


There's a dog event at a park in Milwaukee that we go to and run our lure coursing. Ever volunteer carries one of those - just in case.

I've stopped a fight before with just my voice but I can REEEALLY get loud when I need to! 

Maybe with Tessa's hip and spine issues it's time Dharma stopped playing with her?


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

I'm so sorry you went through that! Hugs!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

DharmasMom said:


> Tessa is no longer able to be fast but the parts about being smart and holding a grudge is soooo true. We were at the dog park a couple of weeks ago, I didn't see what started the incident, Tessa probably got in the face of a smaller dog. All i saw was the other dog take her down. It doesn't take much for her to lose her balance and go down because her hips are so bad.


I have to make two comments here.

1. Please do *NOT* take a dog with 'issues' to a dog park. What if my dog was running past Tessa and accidently knocked into her. She could decide to go after mine because they 'hurt' her. Not only was it NOT my dogs fault but it also just perpetuates the reputation that German Shepherds are aggressive dogs.

Some of us work VERY hard to show people that GSDs can be GREAT dogs and dispell the 'GSD = aggressive dog' mindset and incidents like the above don't help.

2. Please do *NOT* take a dog with mobility & pain issues to an off-leash dog park. The park is a place were rough and rowdy play IS going to happen and a dog that can't handle that type of play IS going to get hurt.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I hope your feeling better today and that your wounds are healing. I've often wondering if doctors have to report dog bites when its your own dog, I guess this has answered that. Don't have any advice other than whats been shared but do wish you well.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Best wishes to you! Hope you are feeling better!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree with not taking THIS dog to a dog park, mobility issues, age, etc. 

But pack aggression usually does does not translate to dog aggression across the board. I am not a fan of dog parks, and do not understand Americans' love affair with them. But, taking a dog that has displayed bitch-bitch aggression within a pack out and about and to classes and everywhere, does not seem to be an issue at all. I cannot crawl up in my dogs' heads but it seems like this type of aggression has to do with who is who at home, and they can be sweethearts to everyone else. 

However, bitches can also be jealous. I call it the Green Gene. And occasionally an outside dog will get The Look if Susie is making a fuss over it -- which in turn gets them a "Oh, you cut that out!" and serves the purpose as Susie's attention has been effectively diverted to a more proper source.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with the last few posts

It's great of you to take her in with all her disabilities. At this point in her life with her physical problems, she deserves some peace, even tho she may start stuff, I wouldn't put her in any situations where she has that opportunity.

Someone probably, TEssa, is going to be the one who's going to really get hurt more than she's hurting at some point..Kinda not fair to her

While Dharma for the most part be ok with her, it's removing HER from the situations that could arise, BEFORE, they escalate that would be easiest to do. 

Honestly tho, I'd be on top of both of them if they were together, not allow them to "play", even keep them separated if you have to..and no way would I either, take her to a dog park 

Hope your wounds heal fast


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

DharmasMom said:


> She is a foster. Due to her multiple health issues and off and on aggression issues she has been declared unadoptable. Most of our foster homes already have multiple dogs. I am probably more low key then most. Plus, her hips have gotten worse in the 6 months that I have had her. She is also starting to have some continence problems and cannot always make it outside before she goes to the bathroom. Sometimes I don't even think she is aware she is going until she starts to go.She honestly probably only has a year or so left. It would be unfair to her to shuffle her around homes because she is a tough case. I made a commitment to her when I had her pulled from the kill shelter. Yes, initially I expected her to be adoptable and to have less problems but you play the hand you are dealt. Rehoming her is NOT an option for me. Learning to deal with the problem and manage it properly and to the best of my ability is. She has had a tough enough life and been abandoned enough times in her life, I won't do it to her as well. I learned how to deal with her separation anxiety and didn't abandon her when she tore up my fire place screen and destroyed 2 sets of blinds in my windows.
> 
> Most of the time she is sweet and loving. Most of the time she and Dharma get along well and play great together. Dharma is even careful with her and plays much less roughly with her than she will other dogs at the park. But once in a while there is a blow up, like tonight. No matter what, I am with her until the end.



Thank you for explaining your situation Debbi. I am glad to hear that you are not giving up on her. I do agree with the others about the dog park though, if anything due to her health problems. There is a girl who brings her 14 year old GSD mix to the dog park constantly, the dog has severe hip dysplasia/arthritis and staggers, it falls a lot and it looks SO painful, I hate seeing the dog be forced to be out in a dog park with young dogs zooming past who could barrel into her. It sounds like you are dealing with a lot with these two and you have a very good heart to take on such a challenge. I know I couldn't have lasted that long, I have switched out fosters due to same sex aggression issues. Does Tessa like to swim?


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

Oh I am so sorry to hear that you got bitten. I have a huge scar near the top of my thigh from pulling crazy old blind Bob (another unadoptable foster) off of Max about a year ago. It kind of looks like a three inch smile!

Is Tessa on "P" pills yet for incontinence? Someone donated some to us and I would be happy to mail them to you.

My tried and true method of breaking up a fight is to whack down a wooden TV tray between the two warriors. I know some of you may not sanction this particular method, but if I am alone in the house, and have to break up a fight, it really does work quite well for me. I have been bitten enough times over the years to know better than to try to grab someone's collar when they are in the heat of a fight.

Jean's note about the puppy push-ups made me smile and tear up at the same time. That used to be Remo's big punishment when he acted like knucklehead. Sit/down/stand/sit/down/stand/sit/down/stand - I would make him start with five repetitions and then increase if necessary. He would be so aggravated with me - he would practically be rolling his eyes as he would get back up and then make an oompph noise when he did the down segment. Looked like a PO'd teenager!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I just heard a horrible story on CT local news,, a young man was walking his 11 year old lab in a public park , 4 Newfies, being walked by kids got away from them and killed the lab(( so very sad Sorry I kinda went OT


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Not to speak for Debbi, she can clarify, when she comes back, but....I don't think she was saying she takes Tessa to the park. She said that Dharma plays less roughly with Tessa than she "Dharma" plays with dogs at the park. (I could be wrong, but that was my take.)


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Not to speak for Debbi, she can clarify, when she comes back, but....I don't think she was saying she takes Tessa to the park. She said that Dharma plays less roughly with Tessa than she "Dharma" plays with dogs at the park. (I could be wrong, but that was my take.)


Quoting her post a couple pages back



DharmasMom said:


> Tessa is no longer able to be fast but the parts about being smart and holding a grudge is soooo true. *We were at the dog park a couple of weeks ago, I didn't see what started the incident, Tessa probably got in the face of a smaller dog. All i saw was the other dog take her down. It doesn't take much for her to lose her balance and go down because her hips are so bad*. She never seems to think of this when she wants to bark at another dog. Anyway, I was running over there when the other dog jumped off of her and ran off. He obviously felt he had made his point with her. Leave me alone. Well, Tessa was so offended. I had to put her on her leash because she kept trying to go after him. Even once she was on her leash, she kept watching him and never took her eyes off of him. I repeatedly tried distracting her, calling her name and such. It would work for a few minutes and then she would go back to look for the other dog, zero in on him, watch him like a hawk and if he came to close she would hobble to the end of her leash and bark like crazy. She was so ticked at him.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

So sorry you got bitten! 

Chama got really cranky around younger dogs as she got older and less stable. Even when she was younger when she got knocked down she would get really p*ssed off and go after the dog that did it but when she got older she was very nervous and snappy in those types of situations. I interpreted her crankiness as her telling me she felt unsafe and since the only way to truly protect her was to keep her out of those situations, that's what I did. 

I also had to stop her from playing rough with Rafi. What I did was to teach Rafi to lie down when she started to play with him, just to be sure she didn't hurt herself. That worked quite well. I substituted the play and dog outings for quieter outings where she could explore without worrying about being knocked over.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Samba said:


> Selzer said:
> _Having bitches is always fun. They are smart, fast, and sneaky. *They can hold a grudge for YEARS, biding their time, waiting for an opportunity*. _
> 
> How true is that!! Bitches who have begun to fight can be a difficult challenge. It is important as owners to take the responsibility to keep everyone safe.


This description transcends species boundaries as well.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes, I had been taken Tessa to the park. Initially when we started going, the regulars who Dharma and I knew well were integral in helping me getting Tessa socialized. They were great with her. I had horrible issues in the beginning with resource guarding. The people there (and their dogs) were very patient with her and helped us work past those. There is a man there who has trained and bred gsds in the past and he was really great with her and helping me help her. 

She also loved going. She actually was able to start running. RUNNING! I don't have nearly a big enough yard and this old girl (with the help of glucosamine and Previcoxx) was actually able to run for a bit with the continued exercise. Several weeks ago she was even able to roll in the grass. It almost brought tears to my eyes. 

We haven't gone in the last few weeks though. With the heat being so bad and with summer more people have come. Strangers with strange dogs who aren't has good with her or has patient. There have also been issues with Dharma and another dog (but that is a different story) so we have just stayed away. I doubt she will go back since the park's popularity is growing. 

I know people here have reservations about it but honestly it has made such a change in her for the better, it has been worth it. Yes, I watch her like a hawk. More because I worry about an injury to her than an injury to another dog. She is physically unable to harm another dog. And when play gets to rough, she gets leashed and has to stay next to me. She REALLY does not like that, though and she lets me know it. She is a VERY vocal girl. But my first priority has always been to protect her. And we always have gone at times when it is least busy. Late in the evening. Usually about an hour before dark. Just so there are less dogs that I have to worry about running into her. 

As for separating them. There are 2 issues with that. The first is I don't have the physical space. I have a townhouse with an open floor plan. To actually physically separate them at all times one would have to live upstairs or in a crate the majority of the time. That is not really an option. Two, Tessa has terrible separation anxiety. She NEEDS to be with Dharma when I am not here or she panics and will start destroying things. Dharma makes her feel safe. Dharma and I have not even been able to leave for 30 minutes to go to PetSmart without Tessa completely panicking and breaking out her crate. Tessa also lets Dharma know when she doesn't feel like playing. Which is just as often as not. She will walk away from Dharma and go lay down and ignore the uppity puppy. 

Fortunately, there have only been a couple of these fights. I am now watching them like hawks and ANY sign it could escalate and I am on it. Tonight, they have been very calm and no problems. I do need to teach Dharma she doesn't have to protect me though. The WORST fight they had was several months ago when Dharma went after Tessa because she thought Tessa growled at me. That night Dharma went for broke. The other times it seems to be more of Dharma defending herself. 

@ Remo- I have never heard of these "P" pills. Do they work for stool incontinence as well? That seems to be Tessa's biggest issue right now. She can't seem to hold it long enough to get out the door. She is not having diarrhea. Sometimes she will come to get me to let me know she needs to go. Last night, she came and got me and by the time I got to the door she had already gone, right by the door. She just couldn't hold it. I am trying to keep her on a schedule but she is still having accidents.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Debbi, You are just amazing with Tessa. Thank you for taking such good care of her. I sympathize with the incontinence issues. My old girl is experiencing the same thing. I really am sorry you got bit and hope you are feeling better.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Aww. Thanks. Like I said, she wasn't at all what I expected but you play the hand you are dealt. She has taught me so much and over all, even with her issues, she is a sweet and loving girl. I can tell she is glad to have a stable and loving home now. The incontinence thing is becoming stressful. I spend a lot of time scrubbing my carpets, lol. Oh well. In the end, I am just glad I could do it for her and she got to have a good life, no matter how long or short the time may be.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

Have you tried the spot bot? Might save your back, I've heard amazing things about that product.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

My mom has one and keeps telling me to get one. One may very well be in my future if this keeps up!! I am going through Resolve like water it seems like and my shampooer has become my best friend.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Debbi, someone once posted this quote on another forum I'm on..

"we don't always get the dogs we want, but we get the ones we need"

It went something like that, just reminded me of you and Tessa.


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## GSD84 (Apr 27, 2011)

I once heard from a gsd handler to grab their tail and yank upwards. Not sure if that really works or not though.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Debbi, someone once posted this quote on another forum I'm on..
> 
> "we don't always get the dogs we want, but we get the ones we need"
> 
> It went something like that, just reminded me of you and Tessa.


That actually made me tear up. . It is so true.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

GSD84 said:


> I once heard from a gsd handler to grab their tail and yank upwards. Not sure if that really works or not though.



I can't yank on any part of Tessa's hind end due to her bad hips and spine.


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

DharmasMom said:


> Aww. Thanks. Like I said, she wasn't at all what I expected but you play the hand you are dealt. She has taught me so much and over all, even with her issues, she is a sweet and loving girl. I can tell she is glad to have a stable and loving home now. The incontinence thing is becoming stressful. I spend a lot of time scrubbing my carpets, lol. Oh well. In the end, I am just glad I could do it for her and she got to have a good life, no matter how long or short the time may be.


Have you thought of putting a diaper on her? This way you could spare your carpets, etc. Not sure if they are practical and how easy they are to take off once outside to enable to dog to go potty though.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I thought about a diaper but I can't imagine if she pooped in that how much of a mess that would be to clean up and how hard it would be to get her to stay still so I could wipe her butt. It seems like WAY more trouble than scrubbing the carpet once a day or so when she goes and then shampooing them weekly.


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

DharmasMom said:


> I thought about a diaper but I can't imagine if she pooped in that how much of a mess that would be to clean up and how hard it would be to get her to stay still so I could wipe her butt. It seems like WAY more trouble than scrubbing the carpet once a day or so when she goes and then shampooing them weekly.


I am thinking that if her stool is of normal consistency, it should not be messy at all but maybe it is not of normal consistency. In that case it would definitely be messy.


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

Hi Debbi,

The 'P' (proin) pills work for Number 1, not Number 2.

I wonder if she has DM on top of everything else? I lost my first GSD, Josey to this. If you helped her up, and there was "a round in the chamber", out it would come. One time she pooped what appeared to be a perfect ice cream cone right on the top of my foot. She was horrified and I felt so bad for her. 

Can you maybe place some puppy pads by the door? 

I have a pretty good idea of what you are going through with her. You are to be commended for your dedication and loyalty to her. You are no doubt her angel here on Earth. Over the years we have provided hospice to quite a few old unadoptable dogs - the experience is rewarding, but a lot of frustration can come along with it. Tessa is very lucky to have you!


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

A little different thought on the aftermath of the fight and the injuries. We always have hydrogen peroxide on hand. Helps clean out a wound quick before anything can get started. Ointment is great for continued treatment after that. Use it on the dogs and us (like after our boys got into it last November). Might be able to avoid the emergency room if it's borderline.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

Hydrogen Peroxide kills EVERYTHING, including the skin trying to heal. I've heard scaring is much worse after the use of H.P. Just thought I'd add that...

Also, the rule of If you wouldn't pour it in your eye, don't pour it in an open wound rings true a little in my book.


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

ShenzisMom said:


> Hydrogen Peroxide kills EVERYTHING, including the skin trying to heal. I've heard scaring is much worse after the use of H.P. Just thought I'd add that...
> 
> Also, the rule of If you wouldn't pour it in your eye, don't pour it in an open wound rings true a little in my book.


Your comment kind of threw me for a loop so I did some quick research. Wow was I wrong. I don't really recall that the minor puncture wounds on hy hand healed unusually, but we did have problems with Max's stitches, which we had initially cleaned with the HP. I retract my previous statement and will be getting rid of whatever supply we have at home.

In my research, I found reference to something called normalized saline, which is NOT the same as plain salt water. Live and learn, thanks!


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

I actually tried to edit my comment to not sound as harsh, but it wouldn't let me 

Is great to hear you did some research, and found a better alternative


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I didn't realize that about the peroxide, glad you posted that. 
I ususally grab that first, but when I am treating a wound on a daily basis I try to use Betadine. 
Maybe someone should get a first aid thread started. I try to make sure I have an emergency kit ready. For a while it seemed as if I was always bandaging up a horse or a dog.


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

ShenzisMom said:


> I actually tried to edit my comment to not sound as harsh, but it wouldn't let me
> 
> Is great to hear you did some research, and found a better alternative


Maybe I'm hard to offend, but I didn't find your comment harsh at all. I'm glad I posted so I could get the information. I have already called my wife and passed it on to her.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I've heard that about peroxide. My good friend is a school nurse. She has advised me that schools no longer use it and I shouldn't either. But - I am 53 years old, have used peroxide all my life and will continue to do so. I figure the good stuff will grow back and at least the bad stuff will die.

Debbie, I was wondering if you could put a rubber runner over your carpet leading to the door.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Heh. The problem is she goes where ever she goes. I just came home from work, took a shower and she had gone in my bedroom. She couldn't even hold it until I got out of the shower. And that was AFTER being let out when I got home. I think she is just to the point that sometimes when it hits her, it hits her and she just has to go- like now.

As for the peroxide thing. Straight up it is not so good for open wounds. But we still use it in hospitals but we cut it in half with saline. That cuts down on the harshness of it but it still is very effective at killing bacteria and all the nasties.

Oh, the bruise is super nasty. I will try to post a pic of it later. The puncture wounds are healing nicely an d look good but sure do hurt like the devil. Every time I brush my hand against something- OUCH!


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## valreegrl (Nov 11, 2009)

Dog fights suck plain and simple, but if you are prepared you can get away with little injury. 
Someone else said it, the Shepherd breed is snap and release, no need for a break stick. 

Usually you assess the situation, which dog looks like it is ready to give up. In your case, I would do this with the non-senior....
Have a crate ready (or in the doorway of a room with a door) and grab a leash and wrap it around the hind end so you are holding the loop and snap with the rest under the belly just in front of the back legs. Next lean back and apply pressure. As soon as they release you are going to wheel-barrel the dog away and into the crate or into the room and shut the door. 
Because you have a good 3 feet between leash and your hands redirect is less likely as well as the pressure throwing them off balance. 
This technique is for a single person. With two people do the same thing to each dog, bot people applying pressure and when the release come wheel-barrel away from one another and separate. 

Redirect is the most common way people get bit during a fight, and most people's first reaction is to grab for the collar. Never do that  Always the back end and the leash allows for more wiggle room between your body and the dog's. 

Take the time to get yourself set up to avoid injury. As cruel as it sounds, they chose to fight but I didn't choose to get bit so I will take my time to break it up safely. 

Another tip...lots of endorphins are released during a dog fight and it takes a good while for that level to go down. I would be very cautious around the dogs immediately after the fight as well as keeping them separate and crating/rotating for a good while. 
I would also never leave them home unattended loose, together. Sadly I have heard many stories of people coming home to a blood bath. The first fight was bad, you don't want to see what it could be like when you are not there to help calm the situation. 

Hopefully you are healing well and both dogs came out the other side unscathed and without further incident.


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