# How long should German Shepherd stay in cage



## Bronco (Sep 20, 2015)

Hello to everybody!

I am new here and this is my first post. First, I want to describe my situation. I live in small apartment, I have a lot of experience with German Shepherds, that's from the Army, but I never had GS puppy. I want to buy one, I already know where, and that is not a problem. Training will also be easy for me. The problem is that I never found serious information how long young GS should "live" in a cage. I know that he has to stay inside sometimes when he is young, but I don't know how much time (months) it takes to train and leave a dog free in apartment when I am in the office, for example. So, question is quite simple, how much time it takes until I can through away those ugly cages and leave a dog free in apartment when I am not present there. I absolutely don't want to threat my dog as a prisoner - yes until he becomes ready to stay safe at home but not a second more.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

I'm not getting a "training will be easy for you" vibe from what you've written. 

All dogs vary, as do their handlers training methods and beliefs about what a dog should do or when. Some dogs are never crate trained, others spend their entire lives in the crate when not being walked or exercised. 

It sounds like you're looking for some magical promise that at X months your puppy will be guaranteed to do X, Y and Z. It doesn't work like that, and having such expectations will lead to disappointment and frustration. I'd suggest doing a lot more research into what it takes to raise a GSD puppy.


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## Bronco (Sep 20, 2015)

First, thank you for your answer.

About exact periods: no, don't worry about that. I know quite well that it is impossible to predict correctly that kind of things. I know quite well how to train a dog (GS) - but not when he is 3 moths old - I did that with older dogs. I already collected tons of information about youngsters . I only tried to get information about average time (moths) that young dog should spend in cage when I am absent. Nothing specific. I expect a lot of work  I know that. But I am sure that I am patient and ready to use as much time as needed. I am not going to make a military dog - they are simply not for civilians and civilian life. But I will not put in a cage my dog for entire life, never, ever (until he becomes enough capable to live safely in apartment while I am absent without any danger against him). My gues is that will take about 6 months but that can change for sure. I am not afraid of taking that responsibility at all and I am a very, very patient person.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It really depends on the dog. Potty training if done right can be fairly soon, but one accident can be a set back. Chewing and destruction is completely different. They get bored or they are teething. For example I have 2 goldens, one was an easy pup and out of the crate before 6 months, the other one is 2.5 and still gets into stuff. My GSDs were all pretty good. My female was done with the crate completey at about 6 months. My older male came from the shelter at sbout 10 months old, he was in the crate for about a month(just to make sure), he was an escape artist with the crate. My youngest was hardly in a crate from day one, he would pee whenever I put him in there, but was fine when not crated, crating hindered the potty training process. He was completely done with the crate at 5 months. He does little stuff when I'm not home, like takes the blanket and pillow off the couch, but that's about it. So it really depends on the dog.


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## DaisyDaws (Feb 28, 2015)

I think it definitely depends on the dog. Our pup is now 8 months old, he was never very destructive. He has been trusted to sleep outside his crate in our bedroom since 6 months. I have recently started leaving him out of the crate but secured in the great room/kitchen area if I'm gone for 1-2 hours and he has been fine. I just make sure he has been exercised, pottied, and the house is picked up.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Does the place where you live allow dogs?
My pup was into everything and on everything.
To put it nicely, he was and still is, very high-spirited.
He slept in his crate at night and was put in his crate whenever we left the house or could not keep our eyes on him.
At 11 months we could trust him in one gated off room, he is now 13 months and has 2 rooms to himself when we're not home. 
He loves his crate and rests and sleeps in his open crate and eats in a closed crate.

He is taking a very long time to grow out of his puppy stage.
Yup. I'd say puppies mature at different ages.

The Art of Raising a Puppy is a good book for 1st time puppy owners.
It's written by the Monks of New Skeet.
They breed GSD pups.


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## BauerWhite (Mar 18, 2015)

I have a 3.5 month old GSD puppy. I otherwise have no experience with GSDs (I had a small dog as a kid). So I'm no expert, but this has been my experience:

First off, I couldn't imagine trying to raise this guy in an apartment. Having to take an elevator every time he needed to go to the bathroom would be a nightmare. 

I live in a townhouse and we have a relatively small fenced in back yard. It's good enough, but I wish we had a full sized back yard.

For the first couple weeks, I was taking him outside 2 or 3 times per night (every 2 or 3 hours). If I was living in an apartment, that would be tough. My wife and I both work from home too, so one of us is pretty much always home. 

Now that we've had him for about a month, he only needs to go out before bed (11pm) and then again at around 7am. But I don't think all dogs are able to last this long at this age.

We crate him at night because we have 3 cats and they don't really get along yet (though they're getting better). So when we sleep or leave the house for a bit, we always crate him because of the cats, and the fact that he still can chew things if we're not watching him. 

I feel like we might be able to leave him alone, uncrated, pretty soon... but we're probably not going to risk it anytime soon. We've got lots of electronics and all sorts of stuff that could be potentially dangerous.

I would think that there are two main concerns. 1) going to the bathroom in the house ... 2) chewing stuff or getting into things that he shouldn't be. 

At this stage with my dog, I trust him not to go to the bathroom in the house. He always barks at the back door when he needs to go to the bathroom. But he still needs to go out every 2-3 hours roughly during the day if he's not sleeping. He could probably hold it for longer if he had to, but he wouldn't be able to go 4+ hours during the day I don't think (at night he can go 8 hours in his crate no problem now).

Personally, if I had to work outside of the house for 8 hours a day... and I wanted 8 hours of sleep per night... and I lived in an apartment... I wouldn't even consider getting a dog, let alone a GSD. That's just too much time in a crate IMO. 

Ideally, I would think it would be best to have a backyard and then also have some sort of covered area or an indoor/outdoor thing where you could just leave the dog in his area when you're at work. 

Anyways... maybe someone more knowledgeable can give their input... but trying to raise a GSD puppy in a small apartment when you have a day job I think would be really tough. We got a great dog who was pretty much house broken from day 1. I couldn't imagine how hard it must be if you got a dog who was not as well behaved.

If you're going to be moving to a place with a backyard in the near future, it might be best to wait until then. I don't really think that GSDs and small apartments mix... just for the simple fact that you've got to take them to go to the bathroom pretty frequently at first.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Bronco said:


> First, thank you for your answer.
> 
> About exact periods: no, don't worry about that. I know quite well that it is impossible to predict correctly that kind of things. I know quite well how to train a dog (GS) - but not when he is 3 moths old - I did that with older dogs. I already collected tons of information about youngsters . I only tried to get information about average time (moths) that young dog should spend in cage when I am absent. Nothing specific. I expect a lot of work  I know that. But I am sure that I am patient and ready to use as much time as needed. I am not going to make a military dog - they are simply not for civilians and civilian life. But I will not put in a cage my dog for entire life, never, ever (until he becomes enough capable to live safely in apartment while I am absent without any danger against him). My gues is that will take about 6 months but that can change for sure. I am not afraid of taking that responsibility at all and I am a very, very patient person.


If you are a very patient person - then wait until you have suitable housing for a GSD. They are not intended to live the life of a toy dog. They need room and a yard or outdoors every couple of hours. Please don't do this to a GSD pup. Wait until you can do it right - a GSD is not something you box up for 8-10 hours per day and then all night.


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## CrackedGSD (Sep 8, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> If you are a very patient person - then wait until you have suitable housing for a GSD. They are not intended to live the life of a toy dog. They need room and a yard or outdoors every couple of hours. Please don't do this to a GSD pup. Wait until you can do it right - a GSD is not something you box up for 8-10 hours per day and then all night.


where is this information coming from and what are the negative repercussions of crating your puppy that long? can you give some concrete examples of dogs you've dealt with that were crated for periods of time and have developed issues?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

CrackedGSD said:


> where is this information coming from and what are the negative repercussions of crating your puppy that long? can you give some concrete examples of dogs you've dealt with that were crated for periods of time and have developed issues?


I don't have to justify my opinion to you. Have a nice day.


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## CrackedGSD (Sep 8, 2015)

oh it's just your opinion? sorry, you wrote your prior comment to sound like it was fact, which you have just shown isn't fact. maybe when you make comments in the future you should tell the OP that what you say is in fact opinion and not rooted in any truth and is not backed up by any real information. just seems wrong to try to convince someone to not make a pretty major life decision just based on your own limited experience.


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## BauerWhite (Mar 18, 2015)

CrackedGSD said:


> where is this information coming from and what are the negative repercussions of crating your puppy that long? can you give some concrete examples of dogs you've dealt with that were crated for periods of time and have developed issues?


You think it's good to crate a GSD puppy for 16 hours per day? And the 8 hours when not crated, the dog spends most of his time in a small apartment? 

Where is your information coming from?

Having a back yard for your puppy is pretty important IMO.


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## CrackedGSD (Sep 8, 2015)

op, to answer your question. a puppy can stay in a crate as long as it can hold its business. it's not a big deal to have them crated. most dogs/puppies sleep a lot during the day anyways and all they'll do is end up sleeping in the kennel. ive actually seen crating greatly benefit many owners and handlers because their relationship with their dog is much more positive. the crate doesn't allow the puppy to get into trouble and have to be reprimanded. the only time the dog is out, it is being actively interacted with or trained, and so it never has to experience being yelled at or corrected for things it doesn't know not to do anyways. plenty of german shepherds have been raised in apartments without any issue.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

CrackedGSD said:


> oh it's just your opinion? sorry, you wrote your prior comment to sound like it was fact, which you have just shown isn't fact. maybe when you make comments in the future you should tell the OP that what you say is in fact opinion and not rooted in any truth and is not backed up by any real information. just seems wrong to try to convince someone to not make a pretty major life decision just based on your own limited experience.


Give it a rest Martemchik....:laugh:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Stonevintage said:


> Give it a rest Martemchik....:laugh:


Huh?


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

Ahhh the great crate debate. Mine are fed and sleep in their crates at night. They have free access during the day and will often go in and nap their choice. I have found that having them crate trained and comfortable in them has been a valuable tool when I need to have them safely out of the way for what ever reason. I think that as long as your pup gets the physical and mental stimulation it needs the amount of living space is a moot point.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with living in an apartment and not having a yard, as long as your active with the pup. I started out in an apartment and now I have a huge fenced yard. It's nice and convienent but I sometimes wish I had no yard.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

It really depends on the dog, some handle being out of the crate and never get into problems while others may never be trusted.

As they age a nice alternative can be confining them to a room such as the kitchen which will allow them more freedom but keep them out of trouble


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

As stated previously, each dog is different. I will give my experience
Female GSD and dog #1. Crated during the day when gone for the first 8-12 months. Always slept out at night no problems since we got her at 16 weeks. Started to let her out during the day and all was fine for a week. Then she would eat her bed randomly one day, and she loved to pull the TV cord out of the wall and then she ate part of our futon.. Back in the crate she went. Around 2 years old she began to escape the crate and for fear she would injure herself we let her in just the bedroom.. No incidents, then the rest of the apartment.. No incidents and she's been out free ever since. Now if we go places or on vacation I crate just because the environment is new, and I'm not paying to replace something. 
Male GSD and dog #2. Crates during the day until 15-16 months and was able to be trusted out during the day... Will tear up his bed if I'm gone longer than 10 hours sometimes.. Not able to be put at night because he wasn't able to settle down and sleep. He constantly was walking around. He just turned 2 and has been finally able to sleep out of his crate about 2 months ago. 
Both dogs have to have exercise, my male way more than my female but it helps tore them out and not want to tear stuff up.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Bronco said:


> Hello to everybody!
> 
> I am new here and this is my first post. First, I want to describe my situation. I live in small apartment, I have a lot of experience with German Shepherds, that's from the Army, but I never had GS puppy. I want to buy one, I already know where, and that is not a problem. Training will also be easy for me. The problem is that I never found serious information how long young GS should "live" in a cage. I know that he has to stay inside sometimes when he is young, but I don't know how much time (months) it takes to train and leave a dog free in apartment when I am in the office, for example. So, question is quite simple, how much time it takes until I can through away those ugly cages and leave a dog free in apartment when I am not present there. I absolutely don't want to threat my dog as a prisoner - yes until he becomes ready to stay safe at home but not a second more.


Mine is 16 months old and still crated all day when we're not there. We've started leaving her now and then to run quick errands and she's done well. I see slow but sure signs she's growing up and will be trustworthy in the house at some point, so I'm encouraged. I'm guessing we will be able to just leave the crate door open by the time she is 2 or so, and that's consistent with what I've been told by people I know offline who have greater experience than my own with shepherds.

Right when she first came home, I took 2 weeks off/work from home when she came home, and then we went to four-hour increments in the crate for work days. I still drive home every day at lunch to let her out and give her a break, unless one of us is working from home, in which case she's free in the house. My husband does work from home quite frequently, so it's a very rare work week that she's crated the entire day, but it wasn't always so rare and she was fine. She knows the evening is "her" time and she seems to do just fine.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

Gunther has never been crated... He turned 2 in July. We are fortunate enough that one of is usually home, and if we don't overlap on return times it's a very short amount of time that he's alone. Plus we have the other dog (who is crated and prefers it that way) and the 2 cats. Gunther only ate one thing ever in my home, whether crated or not. Oh, technically 2. Once he chewed a wire to the surround sound speaker in half, and the other time he destroyed a fall decoration. The amount of "bad dogs" he got for that one must have sank in because he never touched anything since. Plus when I get home he knows that he only has to wait about 5 minutes before going out to play. And it's immediate play... He can potty and poo in between chasing his toys. That only lasts a short while but he's used to our routine by now. 

There is no set answer, you do have to just follow your instincts and go dog by dog. 

Also, my personal opinion is that I couldn't comprehend having Gunther in an apartment, but that's mainly because of the zoomies and other craziness he gets into in the house. Many people have large high energy dogs in apartments and it works for them. As long as you are able to get all of the physical and mental stimulation in that the dog needs, the dog will adapt to your living. Plus, when you do get a house he'll think he's in doggy heaven on earth


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## Drewbacca (Jan 6, 2014)

definitely dog by dog, Roya just turned 1, and she still gets crated most nights and always while i'm away. i've given her some freedoms, but once she breaks my trust (destroying/eating something) back to the crate she goes. she's also probably the easiest dog i've had as far as holding it and has gone almost 12 hours in the crate (extenuating circumstance with work) without an accident. we live in center city philadelphia, and don't have a backyard, but there's a big dog park a few blocks away, and we go on frequent walks. that being said, mental games are just as good as physical stuff to tire them when it's nasty/too cold out. lots of the rescues i dealt with prior to buying from a breeder hugely advocated for a backyard, but lots of people do have them in the city. just this morning i saw 2 massive sheps in the dog park that roya got to hang out with.

my take? doesn't matter if you live in the city or the country, if one isn't up to to the task of putting in the required time and effort, then one has no business getting a GSD.


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## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

Mine is 3, and while she is well behaved when we are home, and is allowed out at night, she has to be contained during the day while I'm at work or she will chew items such as shoes and books, and run around with the zoomies and crash down tables/chairs/etc.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

How can this range of time to "trustworthiness" range from 4/5 months to 3 years to be left alone in a house without doing damage???

Time spent at home with the pup to "catch and correct" when a problem happens, temperament, lack of knowledge on how to train or what? Is a "prime age" missed for this training somehow?

How can dogs excel in outdoor training and take ribbons or awards at competitions and be so well trained, yet they are untrustworthy in a house?


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

My GSD pup is just over 5 months and I can see a glimmer of trustworthiness beginning. She was very easy to potty train, rarely had an accident and her last accident was probably around 3 months I think. Never pooped in the house. She will pick up a shoe or sock the odd time still but I know that she knows she isn't supposed to, and responds immediately to "drop it". Now we do have an older dog who is very trustworthy and would never dream of chewing anything inappropriate so that might have helped here a bit. If I know that the puppy is totally well exercised and tired I would now maybe leave her for a very short while uncrated if I have to run out. If she continues to progress at this rate my guess is that I will probably give up the crating around a year or maybe a little under. But I do only work for 3-4 hours a day, and often my husband is home during that time anyways. She does love her crate for sleeping in and runs in there at bedtime to get her treat that she knows is coming. Our older dog sleeps on the floor outside her crate. I think she would be fine uncrated at night, I think she would likely sleep in her crate anyways if it was an option because she likes it. I do not think she would chew anything or have accidents in the house at night.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Stonevintage said:


> How can this range of time to "trustworthiness" range from 4/5 months to 3 years to be left alone in a house without doing damage???


Because all dogs are different. Except that I'd change your end range of 3 years to "never", because some dogs will never be fully trustworthy left unsupervised all day. If you've never had a dog like that, good for you. Maybe you never will, but I assure you, they do exist. My almost 7 year old still occasionally eats TP, and she recently chewed yet another pot holder. She won't chew shoes left on the floor, but paper, and anything that was in contact with or near food is fair game. That's just how she is. I've also had dogs that never went through a chewing phase at all and was perfectly trustworthy from 3 months old. That would be Dena. But rather than crating our dogs when we're gone they have a chain link pen in the garage with a dog door to an outside run. 



> Time spent at home with the pup to "catch and correct" when a problem happens, temperament, lack of knowledge on how to train or what? Is a "prime age" missed for this training somehow?


It has nothing to do with prime age, or training, or correcting. No amount of correcting while _you're there_ is going to be 100% effective when you're NOT there. An example of this is a dog that would never even consider stealing food off the kitchen counter when you're in the room, but walk away and leave it unattended…….that's a whole different story. How can you correct a dog when you're not even there?



> How can dogs excel in outdoor training and take ribbons or awards at competitions and be so well trained, yet they are untrustworthy in a house?


There really is no parallel. Training a dog to do certain things (_with you_, since dog sports and competitions are a joint effort with the owner/handler, it's not a dog doing stuff without a person even there), isn't the same as training them to behave properly in your absence. The dog I mentioned above, the unrepentant chewer, is my flyball racing dog. She also walks perfectly with me on leash. She is extremely focused and engaged, a dream to train. But she is an opportunist, especially when it involves food. That is simply who she is, and no amount of training is going to change her innate personality.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you for the explaining I have never had a dog like that. Sure, a couple of chewed things when they were puppies and learning but nothing else. Apparently, I have much to be thankful for that I have never had to manage that type of problem.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

My female eats everything she can get a hold of. She can climb, too, which means almost nothing is off limits. I either have to limit her access to one room when I'm not home or crate her for her own safety. She is the only GSD I've ever had to crate past 1 year and some were never crated at all.


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