# Is a White Swiss Shepherd a separate breed?



## Clausgsd2 (Mar 19, 2020)

The breeder I got my boy Claus from told me his sire got DNA tested and said the dog had 87% German Shepherd and 12% White Swiss Shepherd... so would this mean my dog is mixed because aren’t WSS a separate breed from the German Shepherd Dog or is it just a white German Shepherd with a fancy name? Both his parents are AKC registered and my puppy is also AKC registered. Please explain this to me because it has me thinking my puppy is mixed even if he is AKC registered.


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

There are white German Shepherds.There is also a separate breed of White Swiss Shepherds.White Swiss Shepherds aren't recognized by the AKC.I believe that UKC registers them.


----------



## Clausgsd2 (Mar 19, 2020)

dogma13 said:


> There are white German Shepherds.There is also a separate breed of White Swiss Shepherds.White Swiss Shepherds aren't recognized by the AKC.I believe that UKC registers them.


So would this mean my puppy is mixed?


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

If the breeder actually has DNA evidence that the sire of your puppy is a mixed breed,then your puppy would be a mix too.Mixed breeds can't be AKC registered.My guess is there was an accidental breeding a few generations back (if the breeder's info is correct)


----------



## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

I believe AKC still registers them or used to as white german shepherds since they weren't outcrossed to anything else to create the breed. People just turned white german shepherds into a different breed.


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

The section 'Classification ' shows which registries accept them. White Swiss Shepherd Dog - Wikipedia


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Genetically a WSS is a german shepherd...nothing else went into the creation of the breed. Some registries recognize them as something different but AKC does not. Last I knew, if you imported an FCI BBS and then registered it with AKC it would be registered as a white GSD.

UKC recognizes both white GSDs and what they call "White Shepherd" which has no color in the last 3 generations I think.

So I think your dog is just an GSD with some white ancestors.


----------



## Clausgsd2 (Mar 19, 2020)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Genetically a WSS is a german shepherd...nothing else went into the creation of the breed. Some registries recognize them as something different but AKC does not. Last I knew, if you imported an FCI BBS and then registered it with AKC it would be registered as a white GSD.
> 
> UKC recognizes both white GSDs and what they call "White Shepherd" which has no color in the last 3 generations I think.
> 
> So I think your dog is just an GSD with some white ancestors.


I read something about that stating they are still technically German Shepherds but they just decided to only breed whites with whites and wanted to make it into a different breed, which is why AKC only registers it as a white GSD. My thing is, if it wasn’t a German Shepherd then it wouldn’t of been able to be registered as AKC. So my dog can’t possibly be mixed if that was the case... because a white Swiss is indeed just a GSD


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Clausgsd2 said:


> I read something about that stating they are still technically German Shepherds but they just decided to only breed whites with whites and wanted to make it into a different breed, which is why AKC only registers it as a white GSD. My thing is, if it wasn’t a German Shepherd then it wouldn’t of been able to be registered as AKC. So my dog can’t possibly be mixed if that was the case... because a white Swiss is indeed just a GSD


I own a white GSD who is registered with AKC. His breed is German Shepherd Dog. color description: White. Although for AKC conformation shows white is disqualifying-- whites can't be shown in AKC conformation-- as far as registering purposes go it is just a color description like black and tan or solid black.

If your dog is registered you should be able to look at the pedigree and probably find some white GSDs a few generations back to account for what you got on the dna panel.

As for the dog can't possibly be mixed because it's registered with AKC-- unless the breeders were submitting DNA then the papers are only as accurate as the people reporting information when they register dogs. Assuming that the breeders are honest then yes your dog is a purebred GSD.


----------



## Clausgsd2 (Mar 19, 2020)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I own a white GSD who is registered with AKC. His breed is German Shepherd Dog. color description: White. Although for AKC conformation shows white is disqualifying-- whites can't be shown in AKC conformation-- as far as registering purposes go it is just a color description like black and tan or solid black.
> 
> If your dog is registered you should be able to look at the pedigree and probably find some white GSDs a few generations back to account for what you got on the dna panel.
> 
> As for the dog can't possibly be mixed because it's registered with AKC-- unless the breeders were submitting DNA then the papers are only as accurate as the people reporting information when they register dogs. Assuming that the breeders are honest then yes your dog is a purebred GSD.


But I’m mainly wanting to know regardless of him having Swiss Shepherd in his DNA my puppy is still technically 100% GSD? Because the WSS is genetically a GSD. He does have white GSD’s in his pedigree from his mothers side.


----------



## hirakawa199006 (Feb 9, 2020)

FCI recognizes WSS different than a WGSD. They are seperate breeds imo. Seen a few in real life imo is different than a gsd in temprament.


----------



## Clausgsd2 (Mar 19, 2020)

hirakawa199006 said:


> FCI recognizes WSS different than a WGSD. They are seperate breeds imo. Seen a few in real life imo is different than a gsd in temprament.


----------



## hirakawa199006 (Feb 9, 2020)

And you trust wikipedia?









German Shepherd vs White German Shepherd vs White Swiss...


Is the White German Shepherd, the same as the White Swiss Shepherd? And would that (those) breeds technically be a different coat variety as the German Shepherd Dog recognized today? Kind of like ASCOB, Black and Parti colored Cockers? Or Paint Horses vs Quarter Horses?




www.germanshepherds.com







http://www.fci.be/Nomenclature/Standards/347g01-en.pdf














Berger Blanc Suisse vs White German Shepherd vs White Shepherd | Dances with Wolves Ranch


Berger Blanc Suisse vs White German Shepherd vs White Shepherd by Dances with Wolves Ranch




www.danceswithwolvesranch.com






















The White Swiss Shepherd Dog - Curious About This Majestic Dog?


Read about The White Swiss Shepherd Dog, a majestic, loyal, loveable and kind dog breed, with strength and power to protect you.




www.dog-breeds-expert.com





There is a huge difference I think in this confusion as US has a White shepherd dog and Germany a White GSD and Switzerland a Berger Blanc Suisse.

How about the straight hip a Berger Blanc Suisse have vs a show line sloped back?

Edited


----------



## Clausgsd2 (Mar 19, 2020)

hirakawa199006 said:


> And you trust wikipedia?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah but why do working lines have straight backs and show lines have sloped backs? I believe they were breeding whites to whites only to produce white and to breed out the slope in a GSD because they wanted straight. Where did they come from? German Shepherds, right?


----------



## hirakawa199006 (Feb 9, 2020)

Clausgsd2 said:


> Yeah but why do working lines have straight backs and show lines have sloped backs? I believe they were breeding whites to whites only to produce white and to breed out the slope in a GSD because they wanted straight. Where did they come from? German Shepherds, right?


And why is it now a separate breed then? AKC and FCI doesnt accept white shepherds?

So there are three types of dogs then regarding the white shepherd?

How about the Temprament GSD vs BBS?

Not to be a ignorant one but I have seen both once and they are much different temprament maybe thats because of selective breeding?

This is same as the rough collie and the Shetland Sheepdog they are similar but still seperated?


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

hirakawa199006 said:


> And why is it now a separate breed then? AKC and FCI doesnt accept white shepherds?
> 
> So there are three types of dogs then regarding the white shepherd?
> 
> ...


My white shepherd is a pretty typical GSD. He is a great watch dog with a big booming bark and people are intimidated by him. He is mostly aloof with people. He doesn't and has never had any great interest un greeting or being petted by strangers but very affectionate to people he knows. 

He is much softer than my wl gsd was. But I see his softness mostly toward me...and I've never done any bite sport with him so I have no idea how he would do. He has plenty of drive for ball and tug.


----------



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

Clausgsd2 said:


> Both his parents are AKC registered and my puppy is also AKC registered. Please explain this to me because it has me thinking my puppy is mixed even if he is AKC registered.


if the paper says: "akc, breed german shepherd" then it is by definition a purebred dog.

I researched white gsd/swiss/bbs usa pedigrees not long ago, you'll have to scroll to see the post about whites: linky

They look REAL GOOD to me. Train the heck out that thing! it'll be awesome.


----------



## chenbao (Mar 30, 2020)

Exactly. People with working animals know what's good for them but also aren't going to spend $50 for a 30lb bag of food, it's just not economical.


----------



## Rae134 (2 mo ago)

hirakawa199006 said:


> And why is it now a separate breed then? AKC and FCI doesnt accept white shepherds?
> 
> So there are three types of dogs then regarding the white shepherd?
> 
> ...


You can’t use the Collie and Shellie as a comparison because the Shetland started as it’s own breed and had collie added to it to develop it further. It’s not just a miniature shrunken down version.


----------



## cba (Nov 19, 2021)

And why is it now a separate breed then? AKC and FCI doesnt accept white shepherds?

So there are three types of dogs then regarding the white shepherd?

How about the Temprament GSD vs BBS?

Not to be a ignorant one but I have seen both once and they are much different temprament maybe thats because of selective breeding?

This is same as the rough collie and the Shetland Sheepdog they are similar but still seperated?
[/QUOTE]

The way I look at it, it is genetically the same breed. They all originate from the same GSD gene pool of some 120 years ago. They were never mixed with another breed. But they were selectively bred, white GSD with white GSD, for many generations, so it is now another line. Whilst most other GSD's where selectively bred with the sloping back and white was excluded.

Then the Swiss decided to register them as a different breed, called "Berger Blanc Suisse" in the french speaking part of Switzerland, and "Weisser Schweizer Schäferhund" in the german speaking part of Switzerland. Both translate to white swiss shepherd dog. 

The question now really is, how many years of selective breeding are necessary to classify the result as a new breed. The Swiss and the Brits and the FCI seem to think some 100 years is plenty enough. The AKC seems to think its got to take much longer.

I think the temperamental difference has two reasons. White GSD are generally more mellow, so selective breeding with white GSD's reinforced that treat. And the non-white GSD's were preferred as service dogs which reinforced the opposite treat, whilst the naturally occurring white GSD's ended up as pets or working dogs and were not used for breeding of standard GSD's.


----------



## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

The AKC DOES accept the solid white GSD. They just are disqualified from showing. They can be registered, though.


----------

