# Woman asks for help for Service Dog's Surgery



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I came across this article this morning.

Woman can't afford service dog's surgery - News - The Times-Tribune



> Lottie can tell when a seizure is coming, and she does what she can to help.
> 
> 
> The 6-year-old German shepherd-Rottweiler mix is trained to smell the seizure before it starts, and when she does, she stands over her owner, licking her face so she won't swallow her tongue.
> ...


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Swallow her tongue?


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## amaris (Jan 6, 2011)

SchDDR said:


> Swallow her tongue?



i'm pretty sure it's almost impossible to swallow your tongue, it's more likely seizure patients bite down on it or otherwise hurt their tongue...

i believe swallowing tongues are just an old wive's tale

Epilepsy 101: you can't swallow your tongue | Vancouver, Canada | Straight.com


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

SchDDR said:


> Swallow her tongue?


Same thing I said! Weird.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it isn't actually possible to swallow your tongue ... but you know how accurate a lot of news reporting is.  Sounds like the dog is trained to do a lot of different things, however ... like alerting the owner to sounds, acting as a brace, etc.


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

I have epilepsy. 

It is IMPOSSIBLE to swallow your tongue. LOL It does kind of make me laugh when I hear people tell me I need to be careful 

Biting your tongue during a seizure? Yep - it hurts like a...well, like...a lot. 

That's very sad that the dog needs surgery


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Hopefully this woman realizes that can for service dogs can be used on a flex card if approved ahead of time and are generally tax deductible. That should help with the cost a fair amount.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Hopefully this woman realizes that can for service dogs can be used on a flex card if approved ahead of time and are generally tax deductible. That should help with the cost a fair amount.


Maybe you could contact the author of the article (her email is at the bottom, I believe) and send her the information to pass on to the Service Dog's owner?


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

FYI Stuff...she may not be able to afford to flex anything. If she received SSI then her benefit is $674 a month. Maximum.

Jelpy and the Mesquite Mafia


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## lizzyjo (Jan 6, 2011)

Could the group that she got the dog from help her?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Jelpy said:


> FYI Stuff...she may not be able to afford to flex anything. If she received SSI then her benefit is $674 a month. Maximum.
> 
> Jelpy and the Mesquite Mafia


 
Ah, that is true. I skimmed it the first time quickly and missed she was on disability. 

But for future reference for people that might read this...don't miss out on this huge tax savings! It's like a 0% loan for the year, plus a huge benefit with taxable income. The less you make the more you save.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

lizzyjo said:


> Could the group that she got the dog from help her?


Not all service dogs are through a group, and many of them are very poor and non profit organizations that work very hard to place the dogs at no cost to the PWD...


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Could the group that she got the dog from help her?


She did not get the dog from a group. Here's what the article says -



> When Ms. Maynard began working with a service dog in 1989, she received the first dog from an agency. Rules required the dog be returned when it reached retirement age. Doing so broke her heart, she said.
> 
> Since then, she has bought and trained her own dogs, so that no matter what happens - illness, injury, old age - they could stay with her.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

It is physically impossible to swallow your tongue while it is attached.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

One of the perks of OT is being able to choose the particular type/breed of dog that you want. You also can have it trained exactly the way that you want it to be trained.

The bad things are you may start one dog after another and have to wash quite a few out. In this case you are then responsible for rehoming any that you are not able to keep.

And, without going through an agency you then are responsible for the dog unless you find someone who you can rehome it to. People know they will be responsible in full for the feeding, care, training, and health expenses of their SD for life and so they MUST make arraingements to follow through on these reponsibilities.

I feel sorry for the woman but I also feel sorry for anyone in this situation of owning an ill or injured dog and very little funds to care for it. My group has helped where we could with OT SDs and SDs from other groups who did not have a reserve to help the teams. But help of this type is few and far between especially in the last couple of years. 

The handlers that are able to raise the funds for their dogs are those willing to pour themselves into the fundraising and let potential sponsers and donors know that they are active and not just sitting back waiting for funds. They sometimes come up with some pretty creative ways to help raise funds for their dog's health care.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> It is physically impossible to swallow your tongue while it is attached.


Hey, I beg to differ. Back in the 50s and 60s (maybe even before then) everyone knew if you went into a seizure you were in danger of swallowing your tongue. First Aid taught that you were never to put you fingers in someone's mouth or they may bite them (I think many believed they would also be bitten off and swallowed). You were to place something like a coin purse or the like and hold the tongue in place. 

I'm glad the human tongue changed over the decades so we no longer have to worry about people swallowing their tongue or our fingers and we don't have to carry change purses around to put into someone's mouth. 

And if the person was also bitten by a snake during this time it was really messy as you had to make cuts with your pocket knife over the fang punctures and then suck the venom out. I think the way snake venom worked also changed about this time also.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

The dog must be trained to hold onto the tongue with it's mouth so it doesn't go down the throat. Otherwise they will be spending days checking the toilet to be sure the tongue passes okay.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Yes TJ....Change is good.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

... Email removed by Mod as it breaks the forum solicitation rules ...


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I really feel for her, I really really do. This past summer my service dog Tessa broke her leg, and while waiting for the Xrays I was waiting to find out if it would be a simple casting, or surgery. If surgery was needed it would be either the surgery or permanent retirement from being a SD. There was no way I could afford the surgery, my savings had just been wiped out from car problems and getting screwed over on some bills by my ex. 

I will also always have OT SDs. The returning a retired dog (which isn't required by EVERY agency, btw, but is common) is one of the reasons. Another is my breed choice, not many use GSDs any longer. 
Another being every organization I've contacted will only place a SD in either a single dog home (you must not have dogs, or get dogs) or sometimes let things slide for a retired SD. I already had 2 dogs when I decided my health was at the point where a SD would help me greatly. When Logan passed away last year, it felt so incredibly empty and I knew though the pain of Logans passing would never go away, as long as I am able I want a multiple dog home. 

BUT, I have to point out this woman has made some poor choices. With the leg problems, Leisel should never have been a SD. It says they began by 2, it takes at least 2 years of age before a dog is a SD so they knew from the start. I am currently training my girl Emma to take over when Tessa must retire, Emma will be getting her xrays this spring and if its bad she will never be a SD. 

Its not that training doesn't "kick in" until 2 years, its that due to the extensiveness of training it takes usually a minimum of 2 years for the dog to meet all requirements. 

As I understand it, she is asking for money for Lottie, who is not and has never been a SD... She would be classified as a companion dog, helping out in the home. This surgery makes no difference as to if the woman has a SD or not? And, if its an ACL tear for a non SD... Really the surgery makes no difference, due to the option of conservative treatment (including 8 weeks of crate rest instead of surgery.) So I'm not entirely sure why she is so adamant at soliciting donations... But maybe someone can contact her with information on conservative treatment for ACL tears?


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

When I first read the original post of this thread I debated deleting it as the whole article bordered on a solicitation for help. But then I decided to leave it as it pointed out several things that I thought were important on the topic of SDs.

This is why on my previous post I mentioned that when going OT, the handler knows up front that they don't have as much back up for assistance as if they had gone through an agency. 

Also, I hope this thread can be used as an educational thread on some of the other concerns. Is the dog going to pass the min. standards of health to continue training and at what point should a dog be washed out when health factors come into the equation. 



> BUT, I have to point out this woman has made some poor choices. With the leg problems, Leisel should never have been a SD. It says they began by 2, it takes at least 2 years of age before a dog is a SD so they knew from the start.


A very good point.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

oops...sorry! I didn't see where it said where to send money or anything. I actually posted it because I saw some things that I would have liked imput on from people into service dogs....that concerned me.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Is there a way to remove parts soliciting donations but leaving the rest? Because it DOES provoke some interesting discussions.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I'll look through it and pull some parts out. 

Everyone must remember -- no one here is promoting finacial help to this woman.

*I would like you to know my sad tale of woe regarding Lottie girl. I am a single handicapped mature woman. Please don't think I am irresponsible for owning three dogs but there is a story behind my dog family. I have required the need for a service dog to assist me in my daily life since the 80's. I obtained my first service dog through an agency, but most people don't realize that when they are required to retire, they go back to the agency, who then gives them back to the family who fostered them as puppies. *

*This absolutely broke my heart, so from that point forward, I purchased my own dog and had them privately trained. Also, the standard labs, who usually are service dogs, didn't work out for me even though I loved her very much. I am a larger woman (185 pounds) and need a more muscular dog to brace me and get me up if I fall or have a seizure. My second service dog was a Rottie and they have been Rotties from that point forward. *

*My recent service dog (Liesel), who served me so diligently, had problems with her hind legs from the time she was two years old. She needed two surgeries for torn ligaments in her knees. She was still able to serve me, but I was uncomfortable putting my full weight on her for bracing. ... Removed by Mod ... The vet recommended we get another dog to be trained as my service dog. Instead of getting a full breed Rottie again, my husband insisted we get a rescue dog from the pound. He felt that "mutts" as he called them, would have less medical problems. I didn't care if they were full breed or not, just as long as they had some Rottie in them, because I had wonderful results with having Rotties trained as service dogs.*

*We found our Lottie from a pound in New Jersey. She was half Rottie and have German Shepherd. Even though she was only a baby, she was scheduled to be put to sleep very soon. We rescued her but her training didn't go very well at all. She had been badly abused and was extremely leary of people. She did very well with helping me in the home as a service dog, but we couldn't take her out. In the home, she alerts me to sounds I cannot hear, and braces me like an angel. So, for the last several years, I utilize Liesel as a service dog when I need to go out, and Lotta (or Lottie as we affectionately call her) in the home as my service dogs. *

*This procedure worked very well until March of 2009. My precious Liesel got cancer and needed to have her front leg amputated. She also needed chemotherapy. By this time I was no longer married, ...Removed by Mod...*

*We were told even with the surgery and chemotherapy that we should only expect Liesel to live until March of 2010. I am happy to announce that she is still with us. I now serve her as she did for me for so many years. She sits on a big chair all day and just barks if she needs anything. We bring whatever she needs to her including food and water. She only gets off that chair to go potty or to go to bed. You'd be amazed at how well she gets around on three legs, but she is starting to slow down now, and I must accept that her days are numbered. I can remember last year crying when I put up her Christmas stocking because I thought it would be her last holiday with us but by the grace of God, she was still here for this Christmas.*

*Now, I needed to get a new service dog again. One of my many doctors contacted a Rottie breeder, who was a patient of his, and made arrangements for me to get another Rottie, but this time it was a German Rottie from a very reputable breeder. My other Rotties had been American Rotties. They are taller and sleaker. None of the dogs from this breeder has ever had leg or hip problems. I waited for the latest liter to be born and I received pictures every week of her growth once she was born. ... Removed by Mod ... The new puppy was named Leela after my Uncle Lee. *

*My Lottie loved to look at Leela's pictures every week on the internet. Everyone got such a kick out of how she looked at those pictures on the computer, and how her tail wagged back and forth so quickly when she looked at her new sister, who would be coming home soon. Well, a little while ago I noticed that Lottie wasn't walking very well. I immediately started to give her meds to strengthen her legs. However, a few days ago, she went out to our back deck to go potty. She tripped, was screaming in pain, and holding her left back leg up. At first I thought she just strained it. I gave her some pain pills which we have for Liesel, due to her cancer, and kept her very still and quiet for a few days hoping it would heal. It didn't. I'm almost positive she now has a torn ligament in her knee. It is very swollen and can't be touched. God bless her, she still goes out to go potty but cries so pitifully when she gets up, even with the pain pills.*

*.... Removed by Mod .... Leela just passed her certification, but is only a year and a half old. She has been in training since she is 9 weeks old but all of her training won't kick in completely until she is two years old. I don't know why that happens like it does at two years old. It just does. *

*... Removed by Mod ... Now, I need to worry about my precious Lottie. I can't stand to hear her cry, ... Removed by Mod ... **She is such a sweet dog and only six years old. I certainly don't want to put her to sleep as one vet recommended. ... Removed by Mod ...*


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Why do most assistance dog agencies require the owner to return the dog when it's retired? This doesn't seem to be the norm with guide dogs.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I think its due to the rule about not having other dogs in the home. Agencies won't place a SD in a home with a dog, so they also require the dog to be returned upon retirement so there isn't an issue when it comes time for the PWD to acquire a "replacement" dog. Though some agencies are willing to look at it on a case-by-case basis when it comes to placing a dog in a home with a retired SD.


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## lizzyjo (Jan 6, 2011)

I would like to know if you train your dog to be of service to you opening doors, pickiing up things , helping with the dryer, is that concidered a service dog? If it is can you take them anywhere? I know if you put a service dog vest on your dog it is illegal...


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## lizzyjo (Jan 6, 2011)

Sorry about dropping my thought...arthritis, its illegal unless you have a certificate qualifing your dog as a service dog.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

You do not need a certificate, there is no official service dog certification and no certification required by federal law. Certifications through specific organizations only mean the dog was certified to have passed the testing at that specific organization. 

Yes, placing a vest on a non service dog is illegal. 

Training a dog to perform service tasks alone (opening doors, picking up things) does not make them a service dog. A service dog is a dog that meets the 3 sections of federal requirements and is a partner with a person with a disability (often shortened to PWD.) So, it doesn't matter how well trained a dog is or how many service tasks they can perform if they are not partnered with a PWD they are not acting as a service dog. (and what constitutes a disability is defined by law)

The 3 basic sections of service dog training are obedience, public access, and service tasks. There are specific outlines of what obedience in a service dog means, it is more inclusive than obedience in a pet. Public access training refers to working out in public. Maintaining obedience training regardless of where the dog is. Perfect obedience in a restaurant, a grocery store, a concert. Service tasks refer to specific tasks that are trained to mitigate the SPECIFIC disability of the handler. So if someone has a disability such as diabetes, and their dog is trained to open a door it doesn't mean its a service task. But if someone has diabetes and has a dog trained to scent and alert low or high blood sugar, its a service task. Or if someone with a disability that causes mobility difficulties has a dog trained to open a door, its a service task.


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## lizzyjo (Jan 6, 2011)

Thank you so much..i am informed now. I was thinking of ot( i assumed it was owner trained) i am learning so much..


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

I was wondering about the "bearing full weight" issue...service dogs do that? If so...is there a certain technique? wondering when I see multiple dogs with leg issues...could be back luck...could be bad technique?


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

ilghaus said:


> hey, i beg to differ. Back in the 50s and 60s (maybe even before then) everyone knew if you went into a seizure you were in danger of swallowing your tongue. First aid taught that you were never to put you fingers in someone's mouth or they may bite them (i think many believed they would also be bitten off and swallowed). You were to place something like a coin purse or the like and hold the tongue in place.
> 
> I'm glad the human tongue changed over the decades so we no longer have to worry about people swallowing their tongue or our fingers and we don't have to carry change purses around to put into someone's mouth.
> 
> And if the person was also bitten by a snake during this time it was really messy as you had to make cuts with your pocket knife over the fang punctures and then suck the venom out. I think the way snake venom worked also changed about this time also.


lmao!!!!


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Myamom said:


> I was wondering about the "bearing full weight" issue...service dogs do that? If so...is there a certain technique? wondering when I see multiple dogs with leg issues...could be back luck...could be bad technique?


Well the dog should never bear full weight for very long. I use Tessa as a brace when getting up, or when I lose my balance. She can also pull to help me up. Weight needs to be distributed in the right place on a dog. Tessa wears a mobility harness with a rigid handle, and pressure absorbing (real) sheepskin lining. It distributes the weight evenly across the shoulders. The dogs spine is flexible and not rigid, it cannot safely take weight the way a horses spine can. 

Before a dog can be safely used as a mobility assistance dog in this way, they need to be incredibly healthy. Clear hip and elbow xrays etc. A dog with leg issues should never have been a mobility assistance dog, and its debateable if they should be ANY type of assistance dog as its very physically demanding to walk with their person and on varying surfaces each and every day.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

I am surprised she didn't go for a Newfoundland or Bernese if she wanted a dog for bearing weight. Her description looks a little blurred between when her dog is a working dog and when it is a companion dog to me. 

She is really trying to get money to keep the dog that is her pet now. I wonder how many people sent her money without realizing that it is not for her current dog. She refuses to rehome dogs that she does not have resources to care for. I do feel sorry for her but from the information posted it doesn't seem to me she is doing the best thing for those retired dogs.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Here is an update to this story.

Injured service dog has osteoarthritis, not torn ACL - News - The Times-Tribune



> The road to recovery has become more complicated for Lottie, a service dog who has been suffering from leg problems.
> 
> 
> (...)
> ...


Okay, how the heck does a vet diagnose a torn ACL without doing ANY X-RAYS?!


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

I guess I'll be that one jerk and just come out and say it...

Con job.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

> I guess I'll be that one jerk and just come out and say it...
> 
> Con job.


Nice summary of what I meant when I posted:


> She is really trying to get money to keep the dog that is her pet now. I wonder how many people sent her money without realizing that it is not for her current dog.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Dang. You beat me to it, and I missed it.

*kicks rocks*


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

SchDDR said:


> I guess I'll be that one jerk and just come out and say it...
> 
> Con job.


WHEW. I actually thought that the first time I read the story, but was afraid to say anything in the thread .
Seems like every time I say something about a deal like this, I end up being wrong. If I keep my mouth shut, it turns out like this.....lol. I'm naturally suspicious of stuff like this (25 years as a deputy tend to make you a bit jaded).
I showed the story to my wife and she said the same thing, but wasn't sure because the story was in "reputable" newspaper and they tend to do some research.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Heck, a mere 8 years as a MP made me suspicious from the initial post.
Like you, though, I kept my mouth shut until there was a little more to go on than my gut.

I honestly had this image of all of us sitting around on our hands going... "Weelll... If I'm wrong, I'm going to look like the most heartless person alive..." lol

I don't trust newspapers to do research.
Not after the Seattle PI and Tacoma News Tribune ran stories about poor, poor Dana Beaudine and his horrible, tragic war story.
Can you believe his employers wouldn't hire him back after he'd been wounded by an Improvised Explosive Device and in the subsequent firefight? And after he was put in for a Purple Heart like every other hero!

Except... Dana never left Kuwait, his back problems were from a pre-existing injury, and the Army rescinded the Purple Heart after a conversation with his commander, who was still IN Iraq, and read about Dana's horrible plight [also known as lying sack of fecal matter] in the friggin' newspaper. Talk about a slap in the face to the guys from his unit who didn't punk out in Kuwait and go home before the fight started.

That entire saga was enough to justify all future questioning of how well even reputable newspapers research their stories before they run them.
Especially the "tug at your heart strings social commentary" ones.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

> (25 years as a deputy tend to make you a bit jaded).


10 years has been enough to give me the same vibes.

I thought it was a bit shady even if the dog ended up having the problems she said. The money was not for her service dog, it was for a pet that was her service dog in the past. 

I thought it might be a total scam but I only wanted to point out the information that was available since she might have really had a broke dog. 

Perhaps there should be donations made to pay for counceling for a poor, pennyless animal horder.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

my take, I feel really bad for the dog I feel bad that the woman can't pay for medical help with the dog, however, there are alot of people in the same boat. 

I couldn't say if this was a scam or not, if donations went directly to the vet to be used towards a surgery that would make me feel less cautious.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> my take, I feel really bad for the dog I feel bad that the woman can't pay for medical help with the dog, however, there are alot of people in the same boat.
> 
> I couldn't say if this was a scam or not, if donations went directly to the vet to be used towards a surgery that would make me feel less cautious.


Agreed, that would be better. I was also curious about why no service organizations were stepping up to offer help.
Kind of along those lines, about 6 years ago, I arrested a drunken idioit that had kicked a black lab SD in the face. (He was afraid of dogs...really...a service dog in a vest and harness) It broke the dogs jaw. It was for a person that was legally blind, but still had some vision. (I will say that I didn't kick the guy in the jaw, but I wanted to)

The lady was on disability and had limited funds to pay out of pocket costs for the care. Within about 8 hours, several vets offered to treat the animal for free and there were donations to help pay any other costs. 
The lady donated what she didn't use to a grorup that trained SD's.
If I remember correctly, the dog had been a gift from her family so it was privately purchased and trained.

I feel bad for this person as well, but something just seemed fishy.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

kiwilrdg said:


> The money was not for her service dog, it was for a pet that was her service dog in the past.


Not even that, according to her letter requesting help the dog was NEVER her service dog due to unstable temperament, only helped her out in her home. Meanwhile another dog that should never have been a service dog due to existing leg problems, was her service dog.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Dog donations being returned to donors - News - The Times-Tribune


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Osteoarthritis in the hips... More proof this dog should never have been used for mobility work, inside the home or out  I'm sad for the dog.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

> The checks that were sent to the animal hospital will be returned to the donors, a course of action recommended by the Lackawanna County district attorney's office, which was consulted to ensure that the money was dealt with appropriately.


I would like to know the rest of that story.


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