# dog and horse



## Anna (Nov 10, 2004)

We have a problem. Barry (our alpha) has some problems to accept the horse in our pack. 
He knows this horse from his childhood, and never had any problems with it - it was not his business like any cows of our neighbours. Now, when we go to barn or are walking horse, Barry is just losing his senses and want to keep an eye on horse. 
He is not agressive to the horse, he likes it, but he has no respect - horse is very patient with him, but when enough is enough, he kicks (gently for horse but not gently for dog). 
At the beginning we had hope that the first kick will do it - but not. Barry just loves to go for a walk with us when we walk the horse, he runs in big circles to be sure that the way is "safe" for us and all that usual job, but when horse makes any step "out of line" Barry is back to "help out" to keep horse on his best beheivior. 

Two weeks ago we started to leave Barry inside, but he was so determint so he went through the window, broke glass and with guilty look appeared in the middle of the way. Now we are leaving him on lead tied up in the hallway where he can not see what's going on when taking horse for a walk. But it is just a temporary solution. 

Other dogs are doing great with horse, no problems at all - they have respect, and when they run past, they keep the right distance so horse really likes their company and is not spooked. 

Do you have any ideas? 
Barry has no problems when horse is out by himself on grass - then he is not paying any attention at all. Barry is big headed alpha, I know, it is our fault, but he is very good with everybody - he really tries to help, and never ever was nasty to anybody, he just thinks that he does the right thing, he is on mission.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Do you have a crate? I wouldnt leave him tied up in the hallway, this is a perfect time to be using a crate. 

When working with both the horse and your dog, you need to make sure your dog knows that YOU are in charge of both him and the horse, and he is not in charge. Basic obedience will help as well, practice anything that might be rusty. Instead of trying to have him learn from the horse to respect him, you need to teach him to respect your horse. Leaving it to the two is dangerous, and either one of them could end up hurt. Don't allow the dog to be within x amount of space of the horse. My big issue with teaching Tessa to respect my horses, was her attachment to me lead to her jumping up on the horses once I mounted. when you're out with your horse, is Barry offleash? If onleash that would complicate things... Use verbal commands as well as your body language to reinforce a boundary. My dogs know the command "back" and that comes in handy here. When Barry gets too close to your horse, tell him a firm NO and to BACK. Use your body to drive him away. Depending on how things go, it might be easiest to start out with another person to help. If you're working alone, it would be really helpful if you're horse knows to stop and stand still, or ground tie. Start out with short sessions and just walking the horse by hand, work up to more complicated things. Like put the dog in a down stay while you're doing something, or riding with the dog coming along. I've had to dismount before to use my body to drive the dogs back out of my horses space. Your dogs should respect YOUR personal space as well, make sure to work on that and it will come much easier as the horses space will just be an extension of yours. The first time I had Tessa and one of my horses interact offleash, she would NOT stop jumping up on him. I was camping with my horses and Tessa and my then bf. I had jumped on Trax bareback with a halter and leadrope to ride him up to the water. My bf had to grab Tessa's collar while I worked on getting my horse to stop spinning and dancing around, not a good situation! But now interactions are much more pleasant. I've taken the dogs when I've gone out for trail rides. I've put Tessa into a down stay to make her wait out of the way while I jumped a few fallen trees, then after pulling up my horse released her. Just remember consistency is key!


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## Anna (Nov 10, 2004)

Probably you are right and it will be the only way. So DH walks horse, I walk Barry along - on the first day we did that, and seemed that it works, but as he goes offleash, the thing starts again


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## Cooper&me (Dec 18, 2007)

How about an e collar? There is a dvd on the Leerburg site that is supposed to help with dog and horse.

I am half way through it and nothing too revelotionary. I will finish it today and send it to you if you want. Just pm me with your address. The part of the video I am at talks about the electric collar. I was too tired to finish last night but definately do not mind passing it along. Maybe the second half is better than the first or you will get more out of it than I have.


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## Anna (Nov 10, 2004)

I do not know. Thank you for the offer, but I really am not sure about these e-collars. I just want to make old fashion way, so they both will get along well - basic obedience training + to build trust of the dog to horse, because Barry is just too worried that horse might upset us somehow... Not overprotective, as he likes horse, but we just need to build up his confidence that we are big enough to keep horse in line without his help







Sounds silly but actually that's the problem. He is veird alpha, indeed.


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## thaliasmom (May 3, 2007)

Hmm...does he know "no"? If so, I'd begin reprimanding him for that sort of behavior! The alternative is to give him an alternative behavior - when he sees horse, to heel, or whatever. Eventually (and probably quickly, sounds like he wants to please!), he'll offer it whenever he sees the horse in question. This was suggested to us when we were having problems with the puppy and the cat, and it really worked. _And_ we were able to transition from "offer that behavior every time" to a more general level of tolerance and existence.

I have horses and dogs myself, so I know how important and tough this can be! Good luck!


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## Anna (Nov 10, 2004)

So far nothing had worked.







Barry is Barry - big head and responsible for all, so by his opinion, he must take responsibility over the horse. So far we lost two windows. The last just few days ago when horse's chain broke, and he went off wondering around. Barry just jumped thry the glass instantly, before we even noticed what's happened with horse. How he had not injured himself, I do not know. And the frame gap is 37X38 cm there - how he was able to broke and jub through in a second? Mystery. The most annoying part is that other than that Barry tolerates the horse great. When horse is "in it's place", Barry has no intentions to chase him or even pay any attention. It was going for past 4 years like that. Cattle (and any other farm animals) are No! and that's it. 100% works. He actually likes the horse. 
Now, when we had taken over the horse, Barry is going mad , but only when horse does something "innapropriate" and then the whole training is out of the window







Peter can ride horse, well, Barry takes it easy, great, all goes well, but when on ground, horse just must be on it's best beheivior otherwise Barry goes in. Do not get me wrong, it is just herding instincts taking over training - he is not chasing horse or hunt him, not at all. He just decided that since horse is ours now, it is under his responsibility. 
Barry is not very well trained as so far we always were able to set boundaries and he was doing great thinking with his own head between them - like is he is told to, he accepts any stratnger dog or cat on our property/hoise, he is able to "forget" about terithorial things, the same with humans - like we said this is ok, you must accept it and no discussions - so far it worked, but this big scary and dangerous animal - Barry just can not trust our opinion, he KNOWS better. We tried everything - I'm with Barry on long lead while peter works with horse, teaching Barry that he can not go in between, and he listens... somehow. One moment we started to hope that it will be treated, but last window showed that no, herding instincts are stronger. Barry is not doing anything bad, he just runs and turns horse back in the yard, but we do not want even that. Horse is not interested into running away, and do not need be heirded.


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## Cooper&me (Dec 18, 2007)

Could you use a tie out cable? Ava also goes "nuts" if a horse is loose but as soon as we are on the scene she backs off and lets us handle it. When we long line or think we will have an issue with dog and horse then I will tie Ava. She will submitt and waut to be unhooked.

Barry basically sees himself as the leader which is not good for anyone. Especially Barry jumping through windows.

Use a crate, kennel... He needs to KNOW this is not his to make decisions. The horse is going to hurt him seriously some day.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Anna
> Barry is not very well trained.....


THAT is the problem right there. Unless and until you get the dog WELL trained, your problems will NOT end. He needs to learn that he MUST listen to you and your husband NO MATTER WHAT.

I have 10 horses myself and the dogs learn from day 1 that they are NOT to mess with the horses.

I wouldn't worry about anything else right now other than getting him to LISTEN TO YOU at all times. Because it sounds like it isn't a matter of IF someone is going to get hurt because of his behaviour, but WHEN and HOW BAD.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: mjb03 The horse is going to hurt him seriously some day.


Either that or the horse is going to hurt YOU(the OP.) because of the dog.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have had horses and added dogs 10 years ago. Prey drive dogs want to HERD horses. Mine would try to grip a leg like a sheep. 

I am a firm ADVOCATE of training with an e-collar when it comes to horses (or any livestock). Look at it this way - what is the risk and your alternative??? It is a long painstaking process to train the dog and you are in a situation which needs immediate attention and the dog is at risk for being hurt. 

Get the video, and use the e-collar to condition the dog. It is much less painful to the dog to get a jolt than to get a broken jaw, leg, shoulder or back from a kick. Trust me, I saw a young green horse kick my young female halfway accross a parking lot years ago. She did not bother the horse until I got on. I am lucky I did not get thrown as well. The dog was lame for 2 weeks, but luckily nothing seriously broken.

Lee


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## Cooper&me (Dec 18, 2007)

Over the years my husband has lost two dogs to horse kicks.

I have been TRYING to teach the "out" to Quincy. He goes into the stalls with me. Ava knows to stay out. Anyway this am I was worming our schooling horses ahead of the vet who was to come late morning to do the show horses and boarders.

Anyway we were just underway with the vet when I realized NO Quincy!!

Everyone was frantic

1 hour everyone called, looked, drove around....

Finally found him cowering in the back of one of the meanest school horses stalls.

He was lucky to be alive. THe WHOLE incident was my fault!

I cannot tell you what a horrible feeling it was.

Please take care to fix Bear's obsession or you will know that feeling all too well.


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