# I can't do it anymore



## Shimbala (Aug 11, 2013)

I just can't. We're in puppy classes, we're paying a personal trainer for a training session every single DAY, and he STILL runs. Wasn't even my fault this time, our trainer, our TRAINER let him outside without a leash on accident. Down the road he goes, and straight onto main street. Recall is nothing. Absolutely nothing! We've had no luck, none at all. I think this dog HATES me. He won't even look at me when I say his name. I'm just DONE!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

He is four months old. So you have had him for 8 weeks? 

Be sure you use a martingale so that he cannot back out of his collar. 

Put the leash on your wrist and even if he wriggles and squirms away, he will not be free to run to the neighbors. 

Never, ever, ever scold your dog when he comes to you. Once you catch your dog, praise hime. He needs to see that coming to you is the most awesome thing in the world. You cannot be angry, with him. You need to start practicing on a long line, and call his name, show him a treat and when he comes, give him the treat and say, Good Boy, Good Come" 

Then introduce the word Come, or if you think there is too much negativity with that word already, you can change it to Here! or Cookie! or whatever. Follow through with treats and praise every single time he comes. And do not give him the command unless he is connected and you can enforce it immediately and then praise. 

Eventually, maybe a year from now, not sure when, but you will be able to use that word to get your dog to come right to the front of you and sit in front on lead or off. But right now, don't even try to give him a recall command if you do not have a leash or long line on him. 

Instead of chasing him, try to run from him. Usually that which runs must be chased. 

Improve your management or you will not have to worry about rehoming your puppy. 

Good luck.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Yikes, frustrating for sure. Very close call. My stomach dropped reading your post.

My only question for now....what have you done to bond with this pup? What does your typical day look like with him?


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## northgashepherds (Feb 23, 2013)

What training method do you use? Are you doing complete positive training? Does this puppy get negative training? How old is this puppy?

Practice training him on a long leash with very positive training; make it fun (with treats, praise, lots of praise, etc). Do not get frustrated with him. He’s just a puppy. Puppies are very rebellious. They go through an attitude phase/rebellious phase that could last until they are 1 to 1 ½ years old.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

northgashepherds said:


> What training method do you use? Are you doing complete positive training? Does this puppy get negative training? How old is this puppy?
> 
> Practice training him on a long leash with very positive training; make it fun (with treats, praise, lots of praise, etc). Do not get frustrated with him. He’s just a puppy. Puppies are very rebellious. They go through an attitude phase/rebellious phase that could last until they are 1 to 1 ½ years old.


Puppies are not rebellious. Children can be rebellious. Puppies are puppies. They react to a variety of stimulaii dependent on their personality and and their experience and their energy level and their intelligence. When a puppy grabs a dishtowel or TP and runs with it, he is not being rebellious, he is trying to engage you in play. When a puppy does not sit or down in a situation, he may not be comfortable in the situation, he may not be clear about what you want him to do, he may be distracted. He is not rebellious. 

Why I take offense at the word rebellious is because rebellion and defiance are things most people punish for. This is exactly what you do NOT want to do to gain a strong bond with your friend. I am NOT suggesting permissiveness, and am not against correcting or redirecting behavior, but punishment which follows perceived rebellion or defiance will be totally counter-productive. 

And it shouldn't take a year or a year and a half to get a bond with a dog, and relatively good obedience, though one set of training classes is rarely enough, and continuing in training for many months or even years is beneficial to the dog and owner alike.

Stupid is another label people like to give puppies that do not conform quickly to their training methods. I find that it is actually the intelligent ones that often give more trouble. 

OP, cheer up, you have an intelligent puppy that is full of energy and wants to play. If you reward your puppy with the game of chase when he runs from you, than you are doing an excellent job of training your puppy to initiate a game that is frustrating to you and dangerous to him.


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

Around the inside of your house walk around with small bits of hot dog in our hand. EVERYTIME he touches your hand with his nose praise like crazy and give him a piece! Make it a game when you see him start to look at you scoot back while whistle, as soon as he catches your hand treat him!!! Do this until he associates the whistle, and your hand and a treat. Next? Stand in the room, whistle, let him get your hand and treat. Slowly start facing with your side to him, your back to him, around the corner and he will learn that the whistle means "touch my hand and get a treat" and it will work from anywhere 

To learn his name, sit in front of him and say his name, hold the treat next to your face, as soon as he looks at your face repeat his name again, and give the treat. You have to be fast. You want the name to be almost at the exact same time he makes eye contact. 

If you're frustrated with training, so is he. Have you ever had to communicate with someone who doesn't speak your language? It's hard!!!! Make it all a game! Training should be an around the clock fun thing- games of chase (when he's chasing you) perfect for learning recall, games of tug perfect for learning sit/wait/down/easy. 

Take a breather!!!! It will be ok!!!!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## northgashepherds (Feb 23, 2013)

selzer said:


> Why I take offense at the word rebellious is because rebellion and defiance are things most people punish for. This is exactly what you do NOT want to do to gain a strong bond with your friend. I am NOT suggesting permissiveness, and am not against correcting or redirecting behavior, but punishment which follows perceived rebellion or defiance will be totally counter-productive.
> 
> And it shouldn't take a year or a year and a half to get a bond with a dog, and relatively good obedience, though one set of training classes is rarely enough, and continuing in training for many months or even years is beneficial to the dog and owner alike.


I totally understand your point. One of my dogs took about 1 1/2 year to start behaving, but he still was very bonded with me. My others learned more quickly. I guess rebellious might not be the correct word. What I mean is a dog may not be mature until he is about a year.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

northgashepherds said:


> I totally understand your point. One of my dogs took about 1 1/2 year to start behaving, but he still was very bonded with me. My others learned more quickly. I guess rebellious might not be the correct word. What I mean is a dog may not be mature until he is about a year.


Yes, the puppy stage is hard. Our trainer had an end of summer picnic (without dogs) today and we were talking about this. The one lady said she will not do a puppy again. Others said we like the puppy stages. But yes maturing into the adult dog you envision is a process that can be challenging. 

It is not the easy ones we learn the most from, but those that give us the most challenges.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

your dog is 4 months old and your done. you haven't started.
how can you be done? my dog started his formal training at
4 months. keep your leashed. train and socialize eveyday.
i train in short sessions. each session last 5 to 10 minutes.
i conduct many sessions during the cours of a day.

stop with the wimping out. start training and stick it out.
don't expect to much from a 4 month old that's just started 
being trained. think about it, your pup is 4 months old and you
just started training. what do you expect from a 4 month old with no training.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is to be sure that you aren't using food/toy as a bribe or a way to 'catch' your dog when they come to you. A lot of people make this mistake, and I think that is just as bad as getting angry and punishing your dog when it comes to you. Sure, they will come back to you to get whatever you are offering, but if you are using food/toy as a way to bait and switch the dog will soon become very wise to that. I just thought I would throw this out there because I see people doing it a lot.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

My 5 mo. old girl drives my crazy some days, too. I struggle to understand what it is that makes her sit/down/stay/come perfectly one day and the next she acts like she doesn't know a thing including her name. Then she does some silly cute thing and I am reminded why "I" struggle...she's a puppy and "my" expectations are to high. GSD's grow big bodies quickly and we forget that they are just still so young on the inside. They mature much more slowly than your typical small lap dog (many of which aren't that well trained. They just get carried around everywhere so they don't have the opportunity to take an "unauthorized" walk). 
I falter from time to time and get frustrated and my pup quickly responds with more bratty behavior. Then I realize I'm again expecting to much to soon. Try to relax and like many have already said...make it fun. Training with praise/play makes it easier. 

My pup isn't very food driven when there are distractions but her favorite squeaky ball goes on walks with us. It helps get her attention and get her focused on me. 
Ziva has taken 3 unauthorized walks in the last 2 days (ugh). Twice her squeaky ball got her coming to us. If your pup isn't food driven a small toy may help with training.

Selzer... thank you for giving me a timeline for when to realistically expect strong ob. I didn't know how long or at what age to expect good ob results. I knew we had a ways to go. know now it's going to be a bit longer than I thought


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Only within the last month or so have I seen the results of constant training. Hans will be two in January.
GSDs mature slowly. Impulse control is difficult for humans, let alone dogs.
Patience and consistency will pay off, I promise.
But not anytime soon.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Springbrz,

Every dog is different. If you work with your dog, just a little, every day, it can be less time. It depends on the pup and the trainer, and the pup/trainer combination. 

Things I like to remember about socialization and training puppies:
1. keep it positive
2. keep it fun
3. a little is a lot
4. too long, too far, too much can be counter-productive
5. there is no hurry


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## kjdreyer (Feb 7, 2013)

Yeah, puppies can make you want to scream or cry or both! But they don't even know they're driving you around the bend, they're just being puppies. It takes a lot of work with a pup for it to understand how you want it to behave. A lot of work, but honestly it's really really important to keep it fun. When you get frustrated, stop, put the pup in a crate with a chewie, and really relax. You will only scare your pup with frustration, and that will ruin your bond, out of which comes its desire to please. 

In my opinion, working every day with a private trainer sounds a little intense for a 4 month old, which is still a BABY! Take a step back, and do what doggiedad suggests - multiple, very short training sessions throughout the day. Virtually every encounter with your pup right now is a training opportunity, you have to really think about what you're teaching and how fun you are making it. 

And, sorry, I'm really on a roll here, the puppy stuff is so recent for us! But NEVER set your pup up to fail! Manage the puppy by keeping him on a leash, even tethered to you. Take the time to POSITIVELY crate train, and always keep the actual training fun, positive, and short. A 4 month old is about equivalent to an 18 month old human baby, in my mind, with about as much self control and understanding of the rules of world! Good luck and remember, this is fun! No really  it is!


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## dioworld (Feb 1, 2012)

Wow. 4 months and you're done? People here training for a few years still can't get a perfect recall if they see racoons and squirrel.. I agree to make it positive with long leash, don't punish the dog, later when the dog gets older and after more training you can find a good trainer to start ecollar training on reinforcing the recall


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Selzer,

Thanks for the advise. I do train a little everyday. Our pup is "perfect". We usually walk twice a day. Play inside and outside several times a day. Training is always incorporated in with play. Dedicated training sessions are usually only 5-10 minutes at this point. Ziva is teething in a big way so she is just fussy and whiny and wants to play but doesn't want to play. She has so many toys and chewy things to keep her happy (yup...spoiled). 

We've just had such a hot summer and Ziva and I don't tolerate the heat well. Ziva won't settle if she's hot, so the ceiling fan is on high and A/C on 70 and DH is under a blanket, lol. 
I have RA so sometimes it's tough keeping up with such a high energy pup. DH isn't much help in the walking or training dept. 
As I said in previous post, I knew we had a way to go just didn't think it was going to be quite such a long way off. It's all good though...we're having fun and she is my ''Velcro" dog. I haven't been to the bathroom by myself in weeks:blush: we are bonding well. 

Most here on the forum give good advise and support on training and socialization, feeding, health, etc. But I hadn't seen anywhere where anyone said at about what age ob was stable and reliable on the whole. It was nice to have you actually put an age to it. (understood that not all dogs are equal). That really helps me put my goals and expectations for my pup into proper perspective. I think she's doing well on the learning curve.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

My oldest dog is a shepherd chow poodle mix and he is really well behaved most of the time. However, once he got in the front yard all bets were off. Zero recall. He came back when he was ready. We tried everything to get him to stay in the yard or even just to come back when called. After almost getting hit by a car we got an ecollar for him. That worked. As long as the collar is on. 

The other thing we really worked on was the wait command at the door. We no longer have the bolting out the door issue, because he will wait now. If we allow him in the front yard with us he wears the ecollar.

I also agree four month is not very long to give up on something. I do my best to train my dogs. My first two are smaller so I trained them myself. The GSD I have a trainer helping me. He is my first large breed dog and I wanted to ensure he had excellent training. I would never give up on my dogs though. I feel they are my responsibility and any failing they have is my fault for failing to train and guide them properly.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

When we are in the yard most of mine will come when called...I cut them some slack because having a yard is new to them. I will work with them one on one in time. Mine are never off leash and all of them have collars that fits what I think they might pull if we are on a walk. Having them off leash in areas that aren't fenced is not something I will ever do with any of mine. I just don't trust a recall, no matter how solid it might be.


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## Saratm_93 (Oct 24, 2012)

we had the same problem with our female... the ONLY thing that worked is our trainer suggested to stop using the dog bowls and only hand feed the dog that way theres a reason to for the dog to actually look up at you and acknowledge you, it also helps them learn there name, learn what certain words mean like Come,Down,Sit,Off so on and so forth. But you have to do it everyday and be all in, if you work then you only have the time your home to do this its fine. and it cant just be you it needs to be anyone living in the house. Also don't give your dog 15 chances to to do one thing like come to you when called say it once maybe twice and then move on he/she lost that feeding opportunity. this breed was meant to work and if there not given an opportunity to at least try then thats when they tend to destroy the house... good luck, and just be patient nothing is going to happen overnight. i know my female is 1-1/2 and she still test me, thats why people call there dogs Fur-Babies.

also im not sure where you are i live in Central Florida and we train with Doglando, and i HIGHLY recommend them to any and all.


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## Shimbala (Aug 11, 2013)

Sorry guys! I just really needed to rant. I did the counter chase game-- Got in front of him, and then darted back towards the house. When I caught him, he got lots of love and attention. 

The thing that really upset me was that it was the trainer that let him get out. She'd only just been lecturing us on the fact that he shouldn't even be within ten feet of the door without a leash on, and BAM! She opens the door without even paying attention and lets him out. 

I was frustrated, but he's worth the time. My days are always at home and with him. We go to club socialization a lot of the time, set up by positive trainers who help us socialize the pups without stressing them and teaching them to focus on their handlers with something new. 

We do do training sessions every day. Five, ten minute little bursts with the clicker, and never the same thing over and over again. We switch it up, and our voices never raise from our normal level. 

She isn't over every day for an extended period of time. Mostly, she's there to help me work on recall, with the 'hold the pup back and get them excited' game. She's only there for about half an hour, and then gone. 

The rest of the day is spent playing/walking/etc with the puppy. I shouldn't have said that I was done, but I'm getting frustrated. 

I feel like we need to change trainers, as well. I feel like she's not giving as good advice as she could, and suddenly Shim's potty training has just gone down hill.


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## Mabel Mae Poppins (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm definitely not an expert, but my first thought was finding a different trainer. Something just feels off about professional 30 minute daily sessions for a 4 month old with limited results. 

Anyways, I feel bad for you! I've wondered several times, "what did we get ourselves in to?" as well.

You definitely get points for trying. Not many people would pay for daily sessions, and then take the time to find a community online. That right there tells me you're a good pet parent.

Try a different trainer? It really can't hurt. The only place to go is up.  

As far as the potty thing goes, maybe he's getting stressed or confused. A different training approach - like I said above - might help. Good luck!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I agree with the above.

In blue, been there had a similar problem with my rescue dog Smitty.

If you are practicing, paying attention and following the trainer's instructions (which it sounds like you are doing) without any improvement then yeah, you may not have the right trainer.

I had given up on my Smitty dog. He just would not 'connect', when he did obey it was with reluctance as a result I quit taking him anywhere with me. (I used positive only methods too....)

Then I found the right trainer who put us on the right path, things started clicking with Smitty and he's MUCH better. Our bond has become much better and I enjoy taking him places now. 

So don't be afraid to look for or hire a new trainer. 





Shimbala said:


> Sorry guys! I just really needed to rant. I did the counter chase game-- Got in front of him, and then darted back towards the house. When I caught him, he got lots of love and attention.
> 
> The thing that really upset me was that it was the trainer that let him get out. She'd only just been lecturing us on the fact that he shouldn't even be within ten feet of the door without a leash on, and BAM! She opens the door without even paying attention and lets him out.
> 
> ...


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## Okin (Feb 27, 2013)

Some of the most frustrating to train independent dogs become some of the best dogs once they are trained.


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

If you feel like you need to change, then don't think about it do it. Find someone who will treat you both right. There will be huge ups and Downs tears shed, but you can't give up that easy. your guy is a puppy you can't expect to much from him at this point your putting pressure on him then when it goes wrong your expectations were let down. Puppies young adults will push your buttons, but you can't let other get to you. Do the research and find someone worthy for helping you train your pup and form the bond.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I understand you are frustrated, but hang in there. Time and patience. My 14 yo GSD passed away last year. She never wondered off. She was so eager to please. Her recall and leave it commands were solid. In October, I adopted a 4 mo mix from a high kill shelter. Our best guess is beagle/Brittany/JRT. My vet said, "If he is beagle and JRT, God help you." He could care less about pleasing me. He would take off in a heartbeat and not look back. He is smart as a whip, but he is not a biddable GSD. 

I have nothing against trainers and classes. I took my mix pup to a class. It was horrible, but we finished. Most learning takes place at home. It is like piano lessons - It isn't how many lessons you have, but how much you practice in between. I did 10 minutes sessions twice a day. "Natty Boh" is a year old now. He knows lots of commands and tricks. His recall is much better. His waits and stays are solid. Waits and stays are so important, because that means he doesn't run out a door or a gate. I have a gate across my kitchen to keep him from getting to the front door. I have a gate across the deck, to keep him from getting into the yard. He has to sit and wait, before he can go through a gate or door.

The words that work best for his recall are "Let's go!" I know you can do this, because I have taught a beagle to do this. I can even call him off of a rabbit or squirrel and he is a rabbit hound. Don't expect perfection over night. Just be consistent.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Are you also working on the 'wait'? Pup on leash, in front of door, open door, hold pup back til the sit comes, click, treat. Then say 'lets go' (or what ever command your going to use). And out the door. Use this for in and out of the door, the dog doesnt know the difference. Also in and out of the car. Maybe using x-pens either in the house or outside so there is a barrier before going out side until the pup is trained.

And the potty training is just the process of learning. There will be times when your dog 'forgets' what it was taught. Its just part of the process.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Okin said:


> Some of the most frustrating to train independent dogs become some of the best dogs once they are trained.


Ain't that the truth!!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Trust your gut, if you feel you need to change trainers do so. 

Personally, I would not pay someone to do that much training with a four month old puppy. There is only so much a pup that age can accomplish, and coming every day for 30 minutes seems like she could be fleecing you. JMO. 

I think that you really need to consider your expectations for the puppy. 4 months is very young. I am not sure I would be working on anything in particular with such a youngster -- feeling that any 4 month old was having a problem with any specific thing. Kind of like doing remedial reading or math with a two year old. I think at four months, we go and we do various exercises, and the results of those exercises are just a bonus at that stage. Yes, puppies can learn stuff and do, but they may be awesome at SIT or LOOK or DOWN, and suck at STAY or HEEL or LEAVE IT.


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## Darth_Ariel (Jun 20, 2013)

I 100% agree with Selzer, trust your gut. If something doesn't feel right shop and call around, ask your vets office if they have anyone they recommend, friends, ect. It took me months to decide on who I went to for our training, sometimes it's just gotta 'click' so to speak. 

I'd make recall as exciting as possible, some of the dogs our group class have the same issue and imo she put it much better than I ever could have. "You have to be more exciting than the distractions. If they're not coming, you're not exciting enough". 

I started V with someone holding him and me walking a couple feet away, walk away with treat/toy and act exciting. Make him think the sun shines out your bum! Jump up and down, be excited, show him what you have to give him when he does it. Have the person holding him run over to you and bring him if he doesn't come. When he starts to do that well, get a longer leash and do it with that and just keep increasing the distance. Play hide and seek games with him and have someone help him come find you. It should be fun for you to watch him learn, not frustrating. If you're getting frustrated, change your tactics and come at it a different way.


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## Roemly's Mama (Apr 3, 2013)

I feel your pain OP. I used to wonder what I got myself into in the early stages of puppy ownership. But 5 months later I know I made the right choice. I had to work on "me" cause I realized I was giving mixed signals sometimes. Not intentionally but it happens. I also changed from food to using his toy for training. Made a WORLD of difference. It is literally like a different dog. He is amazingly focused on me now when we are in high traffic areas whereas using high value treats....he just didn't care that much. Usually treats worked fine, but some situations such as when other dogs were around, they didn't work at all. Finally someone suggested I use a toy and it made an amazing difference. 

Don't be afraid to try another trainer and find what works for you. Don't be afraid to experiment a bit-he is your dog, you know what he likes best of all so trust yourself in that way. 

Good luck


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## Al Pozzolini (Aug 13, 2013)

Give the dog a break for a while and just practice what he already knows what to do until he's 100% again on the potty training. There's no point in having an awesome dog that pee's in the house. Then get a new trainer that you feel 100% confident in. If you don't like the trainer, the dog will catch on to that and you'll be back to pushing water up hill.


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## GSxOwner (Jul 9, 2013)

Hmm odd post but at least your being honest. Try to remember that your dog's life is tragically short in comparison...learn to appreciate everything good or "bad" because really you don't have a lot of time. I look back and laugh at the "bad" things my old dog did and I would not trade these experiences for the world! 

I can fully understand being frustrated by recall. I had a year old feral border collie/ german shep. that I was trying to train at the age of 11 with no help. Some days on our hike/walk I would literally be screaming for an hour trying to get her to stop chasing deer...or one memorable time a bear cub.

Make sure your not taking other frustrations out on your dog, try to find something you two enjoy together, playing tug of war or something. Maybe watch Marley and Me haha...I can still only watch 3 quarters of that movie. Can't bring myself to watch the end.

Oh and get a better trainer and try a new attitude because dogs can tell


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

the dog is 4 months old.. he is a baby... stop expecting so much from a baby . he has the attention span of a gnat since he is a baby so he wont learn to not bolt out the doors until he is older. put a martingale collar on him , put baby gates in front of all doors so he cant bolt out when they are opened and just enjoy the puppy for now with playing and simple obedience stuff like sit,down, come, heel.... give the pup a chance to be a puppy and have FUN with your puppy.. stop expecting so much from a puppy right now.
the potty training- start over and take him out every time he eats/sleeps/plays /wakes up. find his signal that he has to go- some dogs sniff, some pace, some whine- find his signal and go from there. keep him leashed to you or crated so that he cant have free roam and have accidents. take a drink and relax....


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## jmoney (Jul 21, 2010)

Getting a perfect recall with tons of distractions...well it takes time. Even the best puppies out there are not going to be perfect at that point, they are puppies. GSD puppies are going to test you, especially if they have a high drive. Calm down, if you and your trainer aren't seeing eye to eye, then get a new one. I would honestly even bump the training back to 3x a week and do small sessions with just you and your dog at home. Get a nice long lead (30ft) and get out there with your dog and start making it as fun as possible to come back to you. Check out lou castles page on e-collars and start getting ready.

It almost sounds like your training regiment is stressing out the puppy a bit. Too much work will drive them a little nuts at that age. Unless there was a critter out there, my GSD really doesn't like to be more than 15-30 ft from me at all times anyway when she was a pup. Now she stays even closer, unless i verbally tell her she can get out and do what she wants. Slow down, catch your breath, and start shopping around for a trainer that you work with a little better.

These things are really hard to diagnose over the internet anyways. I went through several trainers before I found one that I really liked.


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## Cunningham GSDs (Sep 21, 2011)

Don't give up. Long line is a must. and Selzer (as always) is right.....choose a word (Come, here, whatever) and even if he accidentily happens to come your way, in your direction and to you, say "good come" and praise him like he's won the lottery. Mine will literally skid to a stop, even if chasing a rabbit, and come to me when I say the word....but it didn't happen overnight. I always tell my new families, the first thing to teach is come. IMO it is the single most important thing to teach because of the safety factor. 
You will regret it if you give him up and when he turns a year old you see him walking down the street off leash with some lucky person who got him and didn't give up.


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