# US Military Puppy Program



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

So the US Military has their own breeding program which kind of worries me.

I am not sure if they realize that one litter can be extremely strong while another litter is just average to weak. I don't know if it will pay off and what happens to all those dogs that don't qualify? 

How many litters do they produce? What happens in the meantime? A puppy needs to be raised in a social environment? Can they find foster homes for all those puppies they want to raise?

How much does it cost? Is it worth it? Does it pay off or is it more expensive than going off and buying dogs from breeders?

I understand their misery but breeding dogs isn't all that simple and I really hope they know what they are doing. 

Especially since in Grafenwoehr they requested to injure animals to let their medics work on living creatures and create an somewhat real simulations. That caused an outrage and of course their request was denied. But it makes me think... what if they can't find homes for all the dogs they produce? What if some of them end up on a training field, injured, as a test object for a medic?

In Grafenwoehr they wanted to use Goats and Pigs... it was denied over here, but do we know if they don't do it already in the States? 

What ya'll think about that?


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

As I said in the other thread, the military has had a breeding program for some time, which is very limited in scope and size due to the fact that they are severely limiting their breeding stock.

The puppies are raised either by foster homes (it's a very popular program) and they also have programs now where a unit or flight "adopts" a puppy and the puppy gets to go to their place of work, etc. for socialization. There is an article about that program on Lackland AFB's website if you want to check it out.

The majority of dogs in the MWD program are purchased from breeders, and more than half of them come from breeders in Europe, as they produce the type and quality of dogs needed more than breeders in the US do. They also have "contracted" dogs that come from Vohne Liche Kennels (Welcome to Vohne Liche Kennels - Bomb Dogs, Drug Dogs, Police Dogs, Narcotic Dogs, Cadaver Dogs) in Indiana.

As far as medics are concerned - yes, they have had programs to work on live animals. They are using pigs for this purpose, as the tissues are similar to human tissues. I like pigs, but I am all for using them for this purpose as it goes toward saving human lives on the battlefield.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

What worries you about it? Where are you getting your information from?


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

My nephew has been a kennal master for nearly 10+ years w/ the US Army. They take very good care of these dogs...working 14-16 hours a day (the guys and girls-not the dogs). These dogs get care and attention from the get go. They pay special attention to prevention of bloat w/ all females having gastroplexy during the spay. A dog is usually (for bomb purposes) assigned one master that they work with for 1-2 years. When dogs retire, they make sure they go to homes that understand the military mentality these dogs have. My nephew by the way, cares about and loves these dogs as any dog lover would...thought you should know!


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

Ooops...forgot. I believe they allow only 3 litter per female.


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## HMV (May 17, 2010)

I don't understand why they can't get their dogs from skid row.

The Army gets a dog for free. The dog has a future. The pen saves on costs.
A win, win, win situation. There must be lots of dogs that would fit the requirement the Army is looking for.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

At Lackland they seemed to be talking about the MWD program breeding malinois. I couldn't find any reference to GSD breeding.

The dogs at our local base seem to be well care for and the kennel master is definitely a "dog guy". Nice facility and people there. A soldier was going to adopt his canine that was being discharged and we were going to foster the dog if needed while the young man attended some training.


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

They use many different breeds. I think he (my nephew) has worked with labs too. It depends on where they are. In Barstow, they use a lot of GSDs, in Germany the Malinois is used. He has been back from Iraq (his third tour) for about 6 months and is currently in Alabama.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> I don't understand why they can't get their dogs from skid row.


FYI - from DA Pam 190-12 "Military Working Dog Program"



> 1–21. Military working dogs
> 
> All dogs trained and used as working dogs by the Army are procured by the 341st Military Working Dog Training Squadron, Lackland AFB, TX. Usually, only the Belgium Malinois and German Shepherd breed dogs are accepted for military use, but other breeds may be used for special purposes.
> 
> ...


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## HMV (May 17, 2010)

TY - I'm a Brit, I have no idea about the rules and regs of the AA. I just thought it would have made sense to save a life if a dog fulfilled the criteria they are after.


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

Trivia: GSD have about 5 million more olfactory nerves than other breeds...no wonder they make great "sniffers"!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

North American Police Work Dog Association - Training Tips

I can't any reference to them breeding any of the breeds they use other than the mals.



As far as what medics might be 'practicing" on, I have no idea.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

That was an interesting read, although the following quote is not actually true.



> I should note here that the DoD is not in the business of procuring Patrol only or Protection only dogs. All dogs are dual purpose detection and patrol.


The military also has SSDs (Specialized Search Dogs) and Mine Detection Dogs. AFAIK, neither the M-Dogs nor the SSDs are dual purpose dogs. See -

Mighty Dogs of the Military
Engineer K9 - FLW OFFICAL WEBSITE

They also recently brought back the combat tracker teams, whose dogs are also not used to detect drugs or explosives, only to track people. See -
Combat tracking team deploying to Iraq


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

The guy I did PPD with worked with the Boston City Police Canine Unit trainers. A neighbor here ran the Connecticut Police Canine Academy and both agree that you can teach most any dog to bite, but only specific dogs can learn when to bite and not bite. Of 100 dogs started in training a low % become working Canines, and of those that pass the initial Canine Officer training only 10% or so are able to go on to do Drug detection... and I assume Bomb detection also. 
Breeding programs by the Military, or police are generally aimed at increasing the number of dogs passing certification, and thereby reducing the cost per dog for the training and maintenance of the dogs during training. The Russian Military developed the Black Russian Terrier in such a program... 
My concern is for the excess puppies who do not pass certification, are they suitable for pet or sport homes. Are the social traits which we treasure GSD's for being supported in the process, or are they breeding ONLY for guard/protection/bomb/narcotics abilities... and not for dogs who can also be part of a family. Don't have an answer as I have no idea... but that's the one concern I would have.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

Mrs.K said:


> So the US Military has their own breeding program which kind of worries me.
> 
> I am not sure if they realize that one litter can be extremely strong while another litter is just average to weak.


If you realize it, what makes you think that they don't? 

This program is staffed by some really knowledgeable people. One of their recently former staff, is one of the top, if not the top, Malinois breeders in the US.




> I don't know if it will pay off and what happens to all those dogs that don't qualify?


Why don't you write to them and ask if it pays off?? Better yet go there and see for yourself. They give tours and all you have to do is ask for one.

Most of the dogs are working out. Those that don't are placed in civilian homes as pets and sportdogs.





> A puppy needs to be raised in a social environment? Can they find foster homes for all those puppies they want to raise?


All the dogs are raised in foster homes and there is a waiting list to become a foster.



> How much does it cost? Is it worth it? Does it pay off or is it more expensive than going off and buying dogs from breeders?


From what I was told the cost is much less than buying dogs.



> I understand their misery but breeding dogs isn't all that simple and I really hope they know what they are doing.


I hope that everyone breeding dogs knows what they are doing. But remember there is no organization in the world with better funding than the US military. 



> Especially since in Grafenwoehr they requested to injure animals to let their medics work on living creatures and create an somewhat real simulations. That caused an outrage and of course their request was denied. But it makes me think... what if they can't find homes for all the dogs they produce? What if some of them end up on a training field, injured, as a test object for a medic?
> 
> In Grafenwoehr they wanted to use Goats and Pigs... it was denied over here, but do we know if they don't do it already in the States?
> 
> What ya'll think about that?


I think this last part is too stupid and insulting to dignify with an answer.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

Samba said:


> I can't any reference to them breeding any of the breeds they use other than the mals.


They only breed Malinois. But they use Malinois, Dutch Shepherds and GSDs for sentry and detection work. And sporting type breeds for detection. They also use mixes of the above breeds.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

JudynRich said:


> Trivia: GSD have about 5 million more olfactory nerves than other breeds...no wonder they make great "sniffers"!


Bull.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

HMV said:


> I don't understand why they can't get their dogs from skid row.


They don't care where the dogs come from. If you find one at the pound and it can pass their testing they will buy it from you. Last year I sold them a Springer that my neighbor was going to take to the pound.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

AbbyK9 said:


> The majority of dogs in the MWD program are purchased from breeders, and more than half of them come from breeders in Europe, as they produce the type and quality of dogs needed more than breeders in the US do.


It does not have much to do with the the dogs in Europe being higher quality. It has much more to do with the number of dog brokers in Europe. The buyers can go to the brokers and see dozens of dogs at one time. Here in the US it would take weeks to see the same number of dogs. Therefore they buy in Europe.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> It does not have much to do with the the dogs in Europe being higher quality. It has much more to do with the number of dog brokers in Europe. The buyers can go to the brokers and see dozens of dogs at one time. Here in the US it would take weeks to see the same number of dogs. Therefore they buy in Europe.


I believe you are mistaken. The FY2000 audit report is available online at the Department of Defense Inspector Genera's website, direct link to the audit is http://www.dodig.mil/Audit/reports/fy00/00-102.pdf 

It states -



> The FAR 25.102, "Policy", allows an exception to the Buy American Act, if the items are "... not mined, produced or manufactured in the United States in sufficient and reasonably available commercial quantities or of a satisfactory quality." The 341st TRS obtained approval of a "nonavailability determination" from the 37th Contracting Squadron Commander in accordance with FAR 25.102, because the US vendors could not provide sufficient quantities of suitable MWDs to meet DoD requirements. (...)
> 
> The 341st TRS initially procured MWDs directly from European vendors when the FY 1997 procurement of 313 MWDs was not met. Of the 495 dogs received from US vendors for evaluation, the 341st TRS accepted 183, which was 130 dogs short of the FY 1997 procurement requirement. The 341st TRS conducted market surveys, advertised in the Commerce Business Daily, and trade publications, in an effort to reach the requirement from US vendors. These actions allowed the 341st TRS to increase the number of basic ordering agreements with US vendors from 6 to 11, and to obtain MWDs from 17 additional sources in FYs 1998 and 1999. Despite the actions of the 341st TRS, US vendors were unable to provide sufficient quantities of MWDs to meet DoD requirements.


If anyone is interested in the procurement of dogs from domestic (or international) vendors, they are posted on the 341st TRS's website, in great detail, at the following link - http://www.lackland.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-061211-005.pdf


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

Fast said:


> It does not have much to do with the the dogs in Europe being higher quality. It has much more to do with the number of dog brokers in Europe. The buyers can go to the brokers and see dozens of dogs at one time. Here in the US it would take weeks to see the same number of dogs. Therefore they buy in Europe.


 
That is part of it. They are seeking a large number of dogs. Looking for dogs in the US with the proper drives,nerves,good hips etc etc is like looking for the Holy Grail. It is quicker to import. 
They will buy from US vendors.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

windwalker718 said:


> . Are the social traits which we treasure GSD's for being supported in the process, or are they breeding ONLY for guard/protection/bomb/narcotics abilities... and not for dogs who can also be part of a family. Don't have an answer as I have no idea... but that's the one concern I would have.


They are breeding for solid nerves, high retrieve/hunt drive in the scent detector dogs. I breed for the same thing and my dogs are in family situations. Stable properly bred dogs can do both


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