# Prong small 2.25 vs medium 3.0



## dhaney81

I have a 6 1/2 (64lb) old puppy who I'm about to get started on working with the prong collar and I'm curious on which one I should get for a growing GS. I'm definitely getting a Herm Sprenger, but just curious about the 2.25 vs the 3.0 for a growing GS. I've read pros for both sides, so I figured I'd make a poll to get a more definite verdict. Any other tips/suggestions would also me greatly appreciated, thank you!


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## Jax08

I use the 2.25 for obedience training, which is controlled and focused work. Anything else you need the 3. An adult dog will rip the 2.25 apart if they decide to take off.


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## dhaney81

I plan on using it for obedience down the road but my biggest need for it is stop the pulling. I've tried a couple different things to teach loose leash walking and they've been effective to an extent, but sometimes no matter how much slack I give him, he just wants to be at the end of it pulling/choking himself a little.


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## nezzz

Well, I personally think a prong for a 6 1/2 month pup is too early. I put mine on at a year old. In the meantime do more obedience and redirecting exercises so he does not pull.

Also, the 2.25mm and 3mm prongs have different uses. The 2.25mm one is used for obedience and precision drills like heel work. 3mm on the other hand is used in protection in some dogs to agitate them so they get more aggressive and bite the sleeve harder.


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## dhaney81

Nezzz, I know he's still young but I've tried a lot of different methods to stop it including stopping, turning around, having him come every time I feel a pull, and I even bought a no pull harness. The no pull harness has been pretty effective and has allowed me to delay the use of the prong collar, but he still has moments of heavy pulling. Also the harness isn't really teaching him what I want even though I still try to stop, turn, or make him come when I feel a pull. I realize patience is important with all of that but if he wasn't choking himself on the flat collar I would wait longer. The other problem is that my girl and friends take him out sometimes, and they can't control him as well as I can


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## Jax08

For walking, you need a 3. You also need to teach him position! Start some perchwork with him, highly reward it. Take him for a walk with a ton of treats and reward him when he's in the right position.

Teach him to release to the pressure of hte leash. As as soon as he starts pulling, start backing up. As soon as he turns to look at you, get him back in the position you want and reward him.

And if your girl and friends can't control him on walks then they have no business taking him out. It's completely counter productive to teaching him out to walk on a leash.


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## Steve Strom

You better go with the medium, like Jax said, the micro is going to weaken and come apart on you doing this.


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## David Winners

I use the 2.25mm for everything, with a nylon coke backup in case it comes apart. They are much easier to size, take less pressure on the leash and are easier to put on and take off.


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## dhaney81

I haven't done any perchwork, but that looks like it could be very beneficial for us. 

I always have treats on walks. I reward him when he looks back/gives me eye contact and when he's close to me. Problem is that sometimes he's not all that interested in treats on walks. I always have low and high value treats with me too. He likes treats, but I think playing is the best reward to him.


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## G-burg

I like/use the 3.0 (medium size) for my dogs and any of the dogs I've had/have in for training.


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## Shade

Personally I use the 3, not too light and not too heavy


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## nezzz

dhaney81 said:


> Nezzz, I know he's still young but I've tried a lot of different methods to stop it including stopping, turning around, having him come every time I feel a pull, and I even bought a no pull harness. The no pull harness has been pretty effective and has allowed me to delay the use of the prong collar, but he still has moments of heavy pulling. Also the harness isn't really teaching him what I want even though I still try to stop, turn, or make him come when I feel a pull. I realize patience is important with all of that but if he wasn't choking himself on the flat collar I would wait longer. The other problem is that my girl and friends take him out sometimes, and they can't control him as well as I can


Still, I think focusing on obedience for now is better. It may be a rough few months, but there is no compelling reason to put on a prong now. 6 months old dogs don't know much in terms of obedience and walking manners so putting on a prong and correcting them when they don't know what they are doing wrong is counterintuitive to training.

There are so many ways you can do walks now. Put on a long lead and walk in a secluded area, praise him and reward when he comes back. If you want to drain your dog's energy, go to a park and throw some balls and do recalls. You need to rethink what you want to achieve on walks with your dog, even if it is just walking him so he can take a dump then going home. But make everything fun, don't use the prong yet.

And do more obedience exercises, like getting your dog to focus on you, simple heel work, then as they get older but still don't listen, you can whip out that prong.


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## David Winners

Using a prong doesn't necessarily mean corrections in the way you are describing. Teaching loose leash walking with a prong using leash pressure is very easy for the dog to understand.


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## Baillif

David Winners said:


> I use the 2.25mm for everything, with a nylon coke backup in case it comes apart. They are much easier to size, take less pressure on the leash and are easier to put on and take off.
> 
> Using a prong doesn't necessarily mean corrections in the way you are describing. Teaching loose leash walking with a prong using leash pressure is very easy for the dog to understand.


This.


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## elisabeth_00117

David Winners said:


> I use the 2.25mm for everything, with a nylon coke backup in case it comes apart. They are much easier to size, take less pressure on the leash and are easier to put on and take off.


My female is on the 2.25mm for everything while my male is on the 3mm but I have and do use the 2.25mm on him for certain things.


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## David Winners

I own a 3mm and don't see any advantage, other than it won't come apart with a really hard correction. As long as you use a back up collar, I can't see a reason to use a 3mm. I have a bag of extra 2.25mm links, and can easily fit the collar properly for any dog. 

I have a friend that just got a 3mm for his husky that I trained on a prong, and he hates it. His wife can't put it on, and the dog is in between link sizes so the collar is loose.

I just don't see any advantage to the 3mm prong.


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## Liesje

I use the medium (3?) for my GSDs. I have the micro (2.25?) for my 35lb terrier mix, but never use that for GSDs. I'd have to double the amount of prongs which just spreads around the correction and seems a lot less effective. One of my GSDs is smaller (60lbs) and his medium prong just has less links.


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## G-burg

> *I own a 3mm and don't see any advantage, other than it won't come apart with a really hard correction.* As long as you use a back up collar, I can't see a reason to use a 3mm.





> *I just don't see any advantage to the 3mm prong. *


Just out of curiosity... What's the disadvantage to using the medium sized prong? What is it lacking in the training dept?


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## David Winners

Harder to put on. Less likely to get just the right size and not fall in between links. More pressure needed on the leash.


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## G-burg

So basically like everything else in life.. It's a personal preference!! 

Interesting, only because when we sell the small collars, you hear one of the same complaints about being harder to put on for some people, because of the smaller size.. and if you have a dog with longer/thicker/heavier coats.. 

Pressure, well,that's all depended on the dog regardless of the collar size!


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## David Winners

The same dog will take more pressure with the larger collar IME. I use prongs primarily for leash pressure work, and I want the least amount of pressure on the leash as possible.


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## Jax08

I saw a smaller one tore apart and bent all to **** during protection. IMO, it depends on the application. It works great for obedience and applying leash pressure. Not strong enough for a strong dog taking off. While a backup will stop the dog from getting away, it defeats the purpose if it's ripped in pieces.


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## David Winners

Put a tab on the prong and leash on the flat collar.


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## G-burg

Well, here's my thoughts at the end of the day!!

A prong collar, is a prong collar, is a prong collar! Regardless, if it's a small or medium, they accomplish the same thing!! That's why I won't knock one over the other!


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## Steve Strom

Hey David, maybe if you gave a little more detail with how your using it. I understand the idea of leash pressure, I don't use it for anything especially since I've used opposition reflex for some other things, but specific to the op, I can't imagine it being useful for dhaney now after months of the dog learning to pull against any collar or harness to get to what he wants? I'm not knocking you dhaney, my dogs have their moments sometimes too.

I honestly doubt the dog is going to give in to a tightening collar, even if the discomfort is sharper with the micro vs the medium. Maybe if you explained some training steps to him?


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## David Winners

Starting A Dog On A Prong Collar With Conversational Leash Work | Tyler ...: https://youtu.be/YEnoPXgWG0U

Follow me, Yield To Me - Tyler Muto's Dogmanship: https://youtu.be/0Vn1c2aHv10

Conversational Leash Work: https://youtu.be/eB8dhKNichw


It takes a little longer when a dog is conditioned to pull, but not much. If you are clear about the rules, the dog learns pretty quick, usually 15 minutes or so.


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## Jax08

G-burg said:


> Well, here's my thoughts at the end of the day!!
> 
> A prong collar, is a prong collar, is a prong collar! Regardless, if it's a small or medium, they accomplish the same thing!! That's why I won't knock one over the other!


 I use both for different purposes. No right or wrong. Just personal preferences. :shrug:


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## G-burg

And I get that Michelle! And totally understand that people prefer to use the different sizes for different things.. along with the reasons David posted.. it being easier to fit and put on..

It's all good... Just like I can use the medium size to accomplish the same for both ob and protection..


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## Jax08

huh? I was agreeing with you.


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## nezzz

Jax08 said:


> I saw a smaller one tore apart and bent all to **** during protection. IMO, it depends on the application. It works great for obedience and applying leash pressure. Not strong enough for a strong dog taking off. While a backup will stop the dog from getting away, it defeats the purpose if it's ripped in pieces.


Agreed, I think the 2.25mm is too flimsy. My dog can dislodge the links from the 2.25mm if she ever does scratch her neck, seen it multiple times. I would use the 3mm more frequently but she's a rather hard dog and doesn't really respond to the 3mm anymore. Thats why whenever I use the 2.25 I hook it up to a second collar or choke just for safety.


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## MonsterMorgan

Here is my stupid question since I seem confused about the sizes. 

I was under impression based on from what I have found when looking to purchase is that size 2.225 or 3 or whatever is the size of the links. Link size is based on size of the dogs neck. The 2.25 is for a smaller neck the 3 is medium and the large is a 4. 

So for you guys using the 3 are you just taking links out so it fits around the dogs neck snugly?

I measured my dogs neck and she is 18 inches. Used a tape measure I need the prong to enforce healing or sitting when necessary due to leash reactivity with other dogs.


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## David Winners

You just add or remove links as necessary. Additional links are available in packs.


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## MonsterMorgan

Thanks David so for the Herm Sprenger 2.25 I would just order the standard size buy the extra links and add them as necessary. Thanks.


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## Steve Strom

MonsterMorgan said:


> Thanks David so for the Herm Sprenger 2.25 I would just order the standard size buy the extra links and add them as necessary. Thanks.


I needed 6 extra links for a Springer 2.25 to fit my Shepherd. He around 80lbs I think.


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## nezzz

MonsterMorgan said:


> Thanks David so for the Herm Sprenger 2.25 I would just order the standard size buy the extra links and add them as necessary. Thanks.


Measure your dogs neck and buy the appropriate length. The 2.25mm prong was 44 cm long on its own.


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## MonsterMorgan

I measured her neck and I got 18 inches. So I figured I would have to get 5 links. Anyone have the link for a site that sells them in packs, or all just individual?


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## David Winners

They come in packs of 3


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## trcy

MonsterMorgan said:


> So for you guys using the 3 are you just taking links out so it fits around the dogs neck snugly?


I purchased mine and had the trainer fit it. It is a pretty heavy collar compared to his normal collar. He removed two or three links. I kept them, but haven't needed to add them back in.


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## trcy

David Winners said:


> Using a prong doesn't necessarily mean corrections in the way you are describing. Teaching loose leash walking with a prong using leash pressure is very easy for the dog to understand.


I agree with this. I don't use the prong collar very often. I used it yesterday. We were at a new house with deliveries happening, people coming and going and lots of noise going on. He was very excited. Pulling and jumping at the end of the leash. My dog is 83 pounds. I can hold him it was just getting annoying. I put the prong on him and and he instantly settled. He only needed a few correcting the rest of the day. 

I am a women using the 3 prong collar. It is not that difficult to get on or off of him. I do use a back up collar with it.


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## dhaney81

Very good videos, thank you David. And thank you Steve for asking for more clarification.

I ended up getting the 3.0 and took my puppy on a couple test drives over the weekend. He did really good on it but I could tell that it's going to take some getting used to for him because he wanted to stop a few times and scratch where the collar was, like it was kind of irritating him just walking with it on. I readjusted it for him at that point. Overall though, I hardly needed to use any leash pressure at all. I knew before using it that he was really close to being a good walker, he just needed some small corrections.

The 3.0 will work overall and I think my dog may have needed it to make good contact through my puppies hair, but I do agree with what David was saying about it being difficult to get on and off, and there being sizing issues. I took 1 link off, which might be a tiny bit to tight, but adding that same link was too big.


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## MonsterMorgan

Thanks so much for the help guys. I am going to go with the 2.25 and comment on the poll after I try it. Sorry for hijacking


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## KlausFares

nezzz said:


> Well, I personally think a prong for a 6 1/2 month pup is too early. I put mine on at a year old. In the meantime do more obedience and redirecting exercises so he does not pull.
> 
> Also, the 2.25mm and 3mm prongs have different uses. The 2.25mm one is used for obedience and precision drills like heel work. 3mm on the other hand is used in protection in some dogs to agitate them so they get more aggressive and bite the sleeve harder.


No man! Never a prong is used to that


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## David Winners

KlausFares said:


> No man! Never a prong is used to that


This thread is 7 years old.

Can you clarify your statement? The prong is not used for what?


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## KlausFares

David Winners said:


> This thread is 7 years old.
> 
> Can you clarify your statement? The prong is not used for what?


Making the dog more agressive on attack training


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## Jax08

KlausFares said:


> Making the dog more agressive on attack training


I'm sorry but that's not correct. A prong collar most certainly can be used to ramp a dog up in protection as well as used to train in obedience and tracking. It's one reason that a prong often does not work for pet training when the dog has aggression issues and a choke collar is more effective. 

There are very few absolutes in dog training.


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## Chip Blasiole

2.25 Curogen Herm Sprenger works better than any prong I have used. It has never failed or been ineffective with a very large, strong GSD. Mainly use electric and rarely have to correct , only push for precision mainly in heeling.


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