# Vomiting and Diarrhea with no apparent trigger...



## Stella's Mommy (May 1, 2012)

Hello. I have a female German Shepherd, just over a year old and we are having some issues. She's a wonderful dog, active and happy, but we are experiencing some gastrointestinal issues that I fear are becoming chronic. My vet has done x-rays of her abdomen and found no sign of a blockage, but she is periodically having episodes of vomiting accompanied by diarrhea. In some cases it is extreme. She isn't showing any signs of abdominal pain, which I would think she would be if there were a blockage, but i'm just not sure what to do at this point. She was on blue buffalo large breed puppy from the time we brought her home last June until just a month or so ago when I switched her to Diamond large breed puppy in an effort to see if it was the blue buffalo that wasn't agreeing with her. My vet has suggested that she may have a meat allergy, but my common sense tells me that if that were the case she would stay sick all the time. As it stands right now she had a bad episode in January and another 2 weeks ago, and then it started again last night. When she has the episodes I am giving her an anti-nausea pill, an anti-diarrhea pill as well as Metronidazole (1 whole one in the morning and a half in the evening). I can't stand for her to be miserable, and my husband and I aren't exactly ecstatic either as her "explosions" tend to be no fun for anyone in the family. Please! Any suggestions would be welcome. I know sometimes something that eludes one person may seem like an obvious answer to another, so I'm hoping that we're just missing something.
Thanks in advance!
Lauren
(a.k.a. Stella's Mommy)


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## Stella's Mommy (May 1, 2012)

Also, I should add that she doesn't have access to "get into" anything as she is kenneled while we are at work and when she's out of her kennel we supervise ANYTHING that goes into her mouth due to the issues that she is having. We've even cut out treats  just in case that was causing the problem. She gets ice cubes instead and thankfully she LOVES them so I don't think she feels deprived.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

There's currently a recall on Diamond Large Breed Puppy due to Salmonella poisoning. Could it be that or did it start before you switched?


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

i would take her off puppy food, and put her on a grain free all stages food.

please note, i would change the protein source to be on the safe side.
so if protein is chicken (which dogs can be allergic too), change it to fish, or some other meat.
prior to the food change, i'd move her to a diet of cooked rice with hambirger (strained and washed of fat), with yogurt and some cottage cheese for additional protein.
that's a very easy to digest meal, and if you do that for a week, then slowly add in the new kibble, you should be good to go.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

Sounds similar to Ditto. For years she has episodes of diarrhea which is sometimes accompanied with vomiting. I'd say each episode is 2-4 days and they occur once a month to once a month and a half on average. She also wouldn't get into anything that wasn't given to her. Maybe 6-8 months ago she began having Bloody diarrhea. It still came and went as it always did. She got antibiotics and since then, I've only seen a TINY amount of blood in her diarrhea. She is a nice weight so these episodes don't effect her much- only once did she appear to be in pain. The biggest part that upsets her is if we are sleeping or gone and she has to go in the house. Recently, we found out that Weegee has whipworm. We don't know if he got it and the others don't have it (yet) or if the others had it and gave it to him. The vet said that whip worm is hard to diagnose and they don't like to say a dog doesn't have it until they do 10 fecals that are negative. We are in the long process of deworming all of them with panacur (3 days, then 3 days 3 weeks later, and 3 days 3 months later...)
They said that perhaps Ditto's diarrhea is due to whipworms because it fits the description. However, she had an episode the other day. I don't think it's been long enough after deworming for her to have gotten them again and have them be adults in her  Maybe you could try deworming and see if that helps.


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## Stella's Mommy (May 1, 2012)

Thank you guys so much for your input! I didn't know about the recall on Diamond LBP so I'm checking into that now. Her first episode DID occur prior to switching to Diamond so I don't think that's what's causing it, but I'm certainly going to toss the bag I have just in case. 

I went yesterday and got her some blue basics canned food because she seems to do better on canned than dry so I thought I would do that for a few days until she stabilizes back out. She has been dewormed recently so I'm praying that that's not the issue, but I'm not ruling that out either. It's just so frustrating! 

As for the protein source I did that when I switched from Blue to Diamond, but I'm going to try again. Do any of you feed raw? And just curious, if you do, can you tell me approximately how much you're spending per month to do so? I'm not dirt poor, but I'm not rolling in the dough either, so I've got to try and keep her food at a reasonable cost. Certainly not at the expense of her health, but we are definitely on a budget. 
Thanks again everyone! It helps a lot!
Lauren


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Have you tried a grain-free food yet? My Cashdog had issues digesting grains.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Stella's Mommy said:


> Do any of you feed raw? And just curious, if you do, can you tell me approximately how much you're spending per month to do so?


We have a whole sub-forum dedicated to raw feeding: B.A.R.F./Raw Feeding - German Shepherd Dog Forums


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I sat down and figured out it would cost me about $120-$150 per month to raw-feed my two dogs. It cost $70 per month to feed kibble. I do some raw but it's not cost-effective for me to do 100% raw.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

I think it would be worth putting her on a very, very limited diet. Since I acquired a GSD with food allergies, I've been studying the subject. Apparently there are allergies and there are intolerances. Intolernaces cause the kind of gastro upsets you describe. It is trial and error to find the food or multiple foods causing the problem. The last article I read suggested feeding one meat source, raw beef, chicken, or turkey ( if cooked deboned). No eating grass or chewing sticks, rawhides, hoofs, treats, nothing. If things go well, add cooked green beans and then cooked peas. Watch carefully for loose stools. When symptoms are gone, slowly start on a LID kibble.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I am a big raw advocate, but in your dogs case, I would first elimate any parasite causing the problem and add in digestive enzymes/probiotics to the meal. I would also change to a limited ingredient kibble.(LID) 
You could also add slippery elm bark to some yogurt(2 capsules) a half hour before mealtime during these episodes. Slippery elm helps heal/coat the digestive tract all the way thru.
At this time, changing to raw may just make things worse if the tract is already compromised. You need to make sure the gut flora is balanced for better digestion.


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## Stella's Mommy (May 1, 2012)

I haven't tried the grain-free yet, but my vet is recommending Taste of the Wild...it's grain free and the protein source is from fish, so perhaps that will sit better with her. I think I'll go get a bag today and try to slowly integrate it into her canned food and see how she does. I'm also going to do more RAW research when I get home and look into supplementing her diet with that. Thanks!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Overview - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency probably not, but...tossing it out. 

Parasites can definitely do this. 

Doubtful but heartworm, or snap 4 tick test. 

Here is a weird thought - some dogs can have an Intussusception of the Intestines in Dogs that slides in and then slides out to normal again. 

You could try a limited ingredient grain free. But if you think of bland foods recommended for stomach upset, lots of times it is something with rice. So, who knows. 

Grain free LI: With California Natural® Grain Free, You Can Rotate with Confidence
With grain, LI: Natural Dog Food, Cat Food and Puppy Food for Pets With Food Sensitivity ? California Natural

The other, common Limited Ingredient food is...the one **** VanPatten makes right? Can see it, cannot think of the name! 

I would go with limited and TOTW is not that. I would also not use anything with chicken. 

BUT - if this were to happen again, I would want to see about doing an ultrasound. 

Just tossing all this out there!


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

Emoore said:


> I sat down and figured out it would cost me about $120-$150 per month to raw-feed my two dogs. It cost $70 per month to feed kibble. I do some raw but it's not cost-effective for me to do 100% raw.


I thought something like that too. But most of our grocery stores have sales on chicken at $ 0.99 per pound. That's cheaper than kibble. Frozen peas, green beans and sweet potatoes aren't real expensive either. Unless my math is off, a 70 pound dog eating 2% of his weight would eat a pound and a half a day at approx $1.50. Other foods would need to be added over the long run, but in the short term, raw would be pretty cheap until the problem ingredient was established.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Marnie said:


> I thought something like that too. But most of our grocery stores have sales on chicken at $ 0.99 per pound. That's cheaper than kibble. Frozen peas, green beans and sweet potatoes aren't real expensive either. Unless my math is off, a 70 pound dog eating 2% of his weight would eat a pound and a half a day at approx $1.50. Other foods would need to be added over the long run, but in the short term, raw would be pretty cheap until the problem ingredient was established.


I can get chicken from a raw supplier at $0.75 a pound, but you still need organ meat, RMB's etc. Not to mention Kopper would need more than 2% his weight. 

I used a spreadsheet using actual prices from our local raw supplier, which is cheaper than the grocery store.


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## Stella's Mommy (May 1, 2012)

@ JeanKBBMMMAAN - thanks for the suggestions! She's been on heartworm prevention since the earliest possible moment, so *praying* that that's not it, but all other suggestions I'm going to investigate, and also the LID. Thanks! 

I had a lab, Morgan, who passed 2 years ago at the ripe old age of 17 (bless her wonderful labby soul), that had a similar issue which turned out to be (and pardon my very NOT technical description of this) that her intestines were intermittently getting "tangled" in the suspension that holds them in place. This per my vet that after exhausting every option we could think of, finally ended up doing exploratory surgery. I'm NOT a fan of cutting a dog open if there is any other option, but she was in such bad shape that I don't think she would have survived the day if we hadn't done SOMETHING. I fully believe that he saved her life that day, and from that point on she never had another issue. I'm praying that our Stella doesn't have similar problems (WHAT are the odds?!) but I am keeping that in the back of my mind. So basically, the moral of my story is THANK you for all the suggestions, even ones deemed "weird" as I have discovered there is no such thing as weird when dealing with the wonderful world of canines


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