# Help! Raw fed and yeast



## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Okay, not sure what to do now. I had put Ava back on raw fed, using a diet plan she had done fine on before, and she has developed yeast problems. She used to have this when she was on crummy foods, as she has problems with many kibbles out there. So NOW I'm stuck! 

okay, I'm limited in funds since I'm not working, but even so, I drove an hour and got a bag or orijen 6 fish. The only kibble I had used before that didnt cause a reaction (tattered inflamed ears and itchy skin) was TOTW Pacific Stream, (I briefly had her on Blue Buffalo Wilderness, but couldnt get firm







but no itching) there was a place to get some, another 30 miles, but I had some quality concerns after reading some of the threads that came up after I quit using it....soooo I went with the Orijen (ouch, I guess WE didnt need to eat this month)

So, I have tried most food sources that I can easily get (funds limited) Beef, chicken, turkey and pork independently) with no improvement. Which leaves me left with fish, but how do you do the bones with fish only diet? AND is there something I should be adding to her diet that she is missing perhaps? I tried missing link, yogurt, salmon oil etc.... no luck. I am feeling really bad about this and want what is best for my girl and am soooo frustrated. 

I am using an anti-fungal on her ears which is helping and since I put her on the Orijen her scratching is improving considerably, so I think that is working.....but what am I missing here??? The blue buffalo has chicken and turkey in it and so I'm even more stumped.

To the meats I added some combination of blueberries, sardines, yogurt, missing link, salmon oil, sweet potatoes, I eliminated them and no improvement with or without any of them. 

Any insight would be appreciated, if you need more information let me know.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

How did she develop yeast problems when being fed on a raw diet?


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I dont know Shel!??!! That is my problem!! ARGGGG!! I really could just cry!


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

Yeast is most often a secondary symptom to something else, maybe in your case a food allergy? If so you must identify the offending ingredient(s) and omit it/them. Could be to any ingredient, not just carbs or grains. 

There is a really good write up about yeast in one of Segal's newsletters, http://www.monicasegal.com/newsletters/2004-03NL.php scroll to the bottom and read 'Myth of the Month - Systemic Yeast'


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

If you're thinking food allergies the best thing to do is an elimination diet- I discussed some of this on another thread, have a read here, 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1316606#Post1316606


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks for the links Natalie! I guess I'm just at my wits end, I have tried elimination, several different protein only sources that I can redily get (chicken, turkey, beef, pork but I cant afford lamb or buffalo). But what is really confusing me is some of the things she is eating now were in foods she previously tolerated well, I mean, I know they can develop allergies, but then why would she get better on Orijen, that still has some of the same things I have tried without success.... ARGG!! . I even went back to protein only and eliminated everything else, tried only chicken, only turkey, only pork, only beef. It made me wonder if it was an environmental thing. But now she is showing improvement on Orijen 6 fish. I havent tried adding any grains to her diet, but I have tried, green beans, sweet potatoes, russet potatoes. I'm running out of things I can even afford to try, let alone maintain. 

Do you thing the underlying problem could be linked to something she ISNT getting as opposed to something she is? I've read all the ingredient lables on everything she has ever had, at this rate she will be 12 years old before I figure it out using elimination. I am worried that she is not getting proper nutrition because I already have cut so much out. I may just have to stick with the Orijen (if this continues to show improvement) but I'm really stumped.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Betsy I have tried elimination, several different protein only sources that I can redily get. . .It made me wonder if it was an environmental thing.


I good elimination diet centers around novel foods, novel meaning never ever been fed before in any form. Like you said if you feed chicken and don't have an improvement then you'll wonder food or environment. It takes time and exposure for the body to have an allergic reaction so choosing novel foods helps eliminate the wonder of food vs environmental. 

And while you were trying the protein only diets, how long did you try them, 8 wks is usually suggested and did she have anything else- a treat, a flavored heartworm or flea pill?- any of these could sway your results.



> Originally Posted By: BetsyDo you thing the underlying problem could be linked to something she ISNT getting as opposed to something she is?


Depends. How long has she been eating an unbalanced diet? The fish formula is high is omega 3s, could she have a fatty acid deficiency from the other foods- ever tried fish oils?

If she continues to improve with the fish food then you can use ingredients from the food to start building back to a raw or home made diet if that's your ultimate goal. You can supplement calcium and phosphorous in cases where bone isn't tolerated.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

There's really no way to do an elimination diet when using kibble. I tell people to do an ingredient inclusion diet.

Start with ONE ingredient. Not one protein - one INGREDIENT - just ONE so that rules out ALL kibbles.

I suggest chicken because it is the easiest ingredient to get.

It can be either raw or cooked - whichever is easier.

For 3 weeks you feed the dog nothing but chicken. You can feed it raw - chicken necks, legs, wings, quarters for RMBs, breast meat for MM and chicken liver for OM. You can feed it cooked - place a whole chicken in a crock pot and cook it until the bones turn to mush.

NO treats, NO supplements, NO NOTHING BUT THE CHICKEN! Try to find chicken that has little if any solution added (it will say on the packaging).

If the dog does not improve or gets worse after the three weeks you will drop the chicken and pick a different ingredient - turkey or fish - and repeat the process.

The goal is to get to a point where you know the dog tolerates that ONE ingredient. Only then can you add a second ingredient.

Again - anything fed to the dog will constitute an ingredient. You said you used Missing Link. If you want to try using it again you treat it like another ingredient - wait until you have either added another ingredient successfully or removed one. Then you can add the Missing Link.

BTW - Missing Link contains flaxseed, sugars, 2 kinds of yeast, alfalfa, barley and kelp - all of which can be triggers for both allergies and yeast build-up.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I havent used missing link for well over a month now, that was the first thing I tried. I had added salmon oil thinking maybe she needed the Omega 3. But it didnt help. I didnt do the one ingredient for 3 weeks though. I only did it for one week with each source (I couldnt find turkey liver or pork liver though so no organ meats when I tried those) and her itching and discomfort just kept getting worse. I know you cant do an elimination diet using kibble so I have switched her completely to Orijen 6 fish while I regroup and do more research (I chose it because of the fish knowing Ava had done well on an all fish kibble in the past and I know it is a good high quality kibble). In the few days she has been on it, her itching has subsided tremendously, which kind of bums me out in a way because I really wanted to keep her on a raw diet, so now I need to regroup, look at everything again, and then decide how to go forward. I hate seeing my girl so miserable. I will keep her on the kibble for now to see if she continues to improve. But if she does, I think it pretty much means that any of the meat sources I have available to me right now are out.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: natalie559Yeast is most often a secondary symptom to something else, maybe in your case a food allergy? If so you must identify the offending ingredient(s) and omit it/them. Could be to any ingredient, not just carbs or grains.
> 
> There is a really good write up about yeast in one of Segal's newsletters, http://www.monicasegal.com/newsletters/2004-03NL.php scroll to the bottom and read 'Myth of the Month - Systemic Yeast'


Onyx(rawfed) has been having chronic ear infections(most of the time, yeast) she also chews her paws, and licks at her groin area.
I just got her HESKA results and she is NOT allergic to any food, but extremely allergic to dust mites, and mold mites. 
It is costly to do an allergy test(over $300 for that and thyroid), but once you find out the reasons for their problems at least you don't have to keep changing diet as I was doing to pinpoint her issue.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks everyone, I hope its not environmental, but I'm loosing hope. I would like to get the allergy test done, but that is going to have to wait until our finances improve a bit.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangBTW - Missing Link contains flaxseed, sugars, 2 kinds of yeast, alfalfa, *barley* and kelp - all of which can be triggers for both allergies and yeast build-up.


I hear a lot of GSD owners say their dogs have raging stinky ears and itchy paws due to barley allergies.


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