# 11 weeks and tiny! Will he ever reach his potential?



## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

Well, I brought home my long haired German Shepherd at exactly eight weeks. The problem is that he is very very small. He is now 11 weeks and only weighs 10lbs. Here is the backstory:

The mom stopped producing milk when the pups were only two weeks. The breeder was not able to get the pups to take milk replacement. So the pups had to be started on boiled chicken. Eventually the pups were switched to canned food and kibble mix then finally to straight kibble. The mom dog was removed and a nanny dog used so the dogs would take to eating. The nanny socialized and took care of the pups. All the puppies in the 9 pup litter were very small at the eight week point. 

Well, my little guy isn’t the most voracious eater. We use boiled chicken broth to help stimulate appetite. But he is so small for his age. His stomach is also really sensitive. He’s been on antibiotics. He seems like he is getting better and stronger and he is the coolest, smartest puppy ever!! 

My question here is, will he reach his potential size? Dad is 80lbs and mom 75. They are incredible GSD. I really want my pup to grow to his full size. Mostly I want a happy healthy dog. But I do wonder if his very small size is going to be impactful long term....


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Your pup has a predetermined genetic ceiling. He'll reach it with proper nutrition and exercise. His lack of moms milk may or may not slow that down or outright stunt it. Only time will tell now. Judge him based on character and ability and forget about his size.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I don't think your pup is 11 weeks old.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> I don't think your pup is 11 weeks old.


Lots of people thought my pup was at least 2wks younger just because she was under standard

My pup started off small. At 5mos, she's finally at standard for her age

Some pups start small and grow slowly and consistently. Some are slow and have some big growth spurts later. Some grow fast right out the gate and hit max height early

As long as your pup looks proportional in regards to size and weight, then there's no problem


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I got a pup that was the runt of the litter of 9. She weighed only 8.5 oz. while the largest male in the litter weighed in at 22! By the time she was 8 weeks old, and ready to go home with me, she had already caught up in weight to her two sisters. Only extremely poor nutrition can stunt growth, which, as has been said above, is genetically determined. Give your pup time, he will catch up.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

My gal was the smallest of her littler of 11. Now at two years old she is on the smaller side of the breed standard, but quick and more agile than my much larger male. 

It is not unusual for even "normal" GSD pups to have periods of being finicky eaters, and the antibiotics don't help that at all. There are other threads here on ideas to help your pup eat better. 

He looks charming!


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## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

I’ll look into ways to help him eat better. I originally had him take Albon for parasites at the breeders recommendations. Then we had him on a probiotic. He’s had very consistent diarrhea almost the whole time I’ve had him. So now he is on the antibiotic. He started out on diomand large puppy because that’s what the breeder was feeding but he wasn’t really eating that very well. So I had to kind of abruptly switch his good because he wasn’t really eating at all. Now he is on wellness large breed puppy. He eats this a lot better. But he is just so thin. Then some days he eats Great and looks healthier. Some days he wanes and looks thin. Hoping this round of antibiotics will get his belly on track.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi Miz and WELCOME! :greet:

Really cute pup! Love those coaties! 

Rough start for a pup!
Your pup needs good nutrition now. What brand name kibble are you feeding? What brand name treats?

Also it will be VERY important to get him on a high quality Probiotic because of the antibiotics he's been on. Antibiotic's kill the "good" bacteria in the gut.
Over 75% of the immune system lies in the gut so it is VERY important to keep it healthy. A Digestive Enzyme (to help him assimilate his food) is also important.

Here are some High Quality/Human Grade ingredient products made for dogs:
*Sunday Sundae*: NEW WEBSITE COMING SOON ? Working German Shepherds (click on “Contact” and use email to order)
*Gut Sense* : http://dr-dobias-natural-healing-usa...ducts/gutsense 
 *Digest All Plus:* 
https://www.thewholisticpet.com/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html 
*Animal Essentials: *Plant Enzyme w/ Probiotics 3.5 oz 100 gm - Animal Essentials
 

A nutritious "Bone Broth" would give more nutrition than chicken or beef broth. You can purchase this or make your own.
The Honest Kitchen (100% human grade ingredients): https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/turkey-bone-broth
The "turkey" contains “ginger” for added digestion and or stomach problems

An additional item from The Honest Kitchen that you may want to consider is their "Golden Milk: “Full of antioxidants, this formula will boost your pet's immune system and support overall health & well being.” 
THK site: https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/golden-milk 
To purchase: https://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Honest-Kitchen-Golden-Milk-Organic-Coconut-Milk/200109.aspx 


Another thing to consider is Colostrum:
Quality is key:
"Only whole, intact colostrum contains the lipids that nature designed for colostrum. Defatted colostrum does not. If you think nature knows what it is doing and that colostrum should remain whole, intact, and pure, *be sure that the colostrum you buy has not been defatted and that nothing has been added to it or taken away from it.*
*Synertek colostrum is taken only from mature cows and not from the first lactation. This ensures that both the cows and the colostrum are immunologically mature. Each batch of colostrum is tested both by an in-house lab and an independent lab for organic quality and to be certain it meets the parameters of *six hour colostrum,* and only then is it certified.
*Synertek colostrum is harvested from U.S. Midwestern family farms, carefully chosen for overall quality, with appropriate regard for the health and welfare of the cows and calves, organic practices, and grass feeding.
Synertek Certified 1st Six Hour Colostrum
Dr. Andrew Jones dosage recommendations: The colostrum dose for dogs varies based on the company; I advise giving ¼ of the human dose per 20lbs daily.



I also agree with the others......enjoy this little bundle of joy and don't worry about "size".

Moms


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Just saw you are feeding Wellness.

You may want to consider a higher quality food like Fromm's, or IF you can afford it, The Honest Kitchen Love Dehydrated food.
*FROMM’S: **http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/#heartland-gold-large-breed-puppy** Store Locator: *http://frommfamily.com/retailers/usa/#progress=2 This is Family Owned, Family Run, & Family Manufactured. Most pet food companies are not.
*Fromm Family Foods is a fifth-generation family-owned and operated artisan pet food company. 
*Produced with a commitment to quality and consistency at Fromm's hands-on facility in Wisconsin. High-nutrient digestibility and utilization offers complete and balanced nutrition. 
*Third-party pathogenic bacteria testing is practiced on all production batches to ensure safety.

*
*
*The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated Food**(not kibble): LOVE: *https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/love Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 35 pounds of food, but you feed more than kibble because it is real food.



What treats are you feeding?


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

My dog was coming from a litter of 12. At some point I, too, got worried about his size and even posted here (2 years ago). He was ok at 8 weeks but then went for 3 weeks with no change in size. Suprisingly, he did catch up and grew up so much that he ended up being taller than his parents. 
Now, at 2 years of age and he is 27.5 inch high and 82 pounds heavy. 
Invest money in good diet and you help your pup to grow to her full potential. As i could see from my experience, even looking at the parents does not always help.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Armistice said:


> Lots of people thought my pup was at least 2wks younger just because she was under standard
> 
> My pup started off small. At 5mos, she's finally at standard for her age
> 
> ...


I wasn't just looking at size. That puppy doesn't look 11 weeks old.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

Mizmazzle said:


> I’ll look into ways to help him eat better. I originally had him take Albon for parasites at the breeders recommendations. Then we had him on a probiotic. He’s had very consistent diarrhea almost the whole time I’ve had him. So now he is on the antibiotic. He started out on diomand large puppy because that’s what the breeder was feeding but he wasn’t really eating that very well. So I had to kind of abruptly switch his good because he wasn’t really eating at all. Now he is on wellness large breed puppy. He eats this a lot better. But he is just so thin. Then some days he eats Great and looks healthier. Some days he wanes and looks thin. Hoping this round of antibiotics will get his belly on track.


You have a Rx for Albon, so I assume you went to a vet. Why did vet put him on Albon?

My pup had giardia and had mashed potato poop since we had her at 8wks. Finally at 19wks, vet said she was giardia free (we had just seen them the day before for some vomiting issues and they sent us some sensitive stomach food home). We did the sensitive stomach wet only for a few days and her poop improved. When our supply was out, she went back to what we had before and got soft poop. Found out that the kibble was the issue. Switched kibble and her poop firmed up and has stayed that way since and she's 5mos now

Kind of irked at myself thinking it was giardia when it was possibly just the food

Feed him just wet for a day and see how he does. Then feed him dry for a day (the results would be immediate. If my pup had the kibble, her next poop was bad)


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## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

He is.


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## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Just saw you are feeding Wellness.
> 
> You may want to consider a higher quality food like Fromm's, or IF you can afford it, The Honest Kitchen Love Dehydrated food.
> *FROMM’S: **http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/#heartland-gold-large-breed-puppy** Store Locator: *http://frommfamily.com/retailers/usa/#progress=2 This is Family Owned, Family Run, & Family Manufactured. Most pet food companies are not.
> ...


I've been feeding Zukes treats and Wellness puppy treats. I've stopped giving those though because Im not sure whats upsetting his stomach. So the last couple days has only been boiled chicken as treats.


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## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

Thanks for all the good advice. He is most definitely 11 weeks old. He was born Oct. 27th So he is nearing 12 weeks.

I def plan to put him back on the pro-biotics as soon as the antibiotics are complete. 

I also think making the bone broth is a great idea. I've heard that from some other people too.


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## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Hi Miz and WELCOME! :greet:
> 
> Really cute pup! Love those coaties!
> 
> ...


A lot of good advice here, much appreciated. Do you think my pup is too old for the Colostrom? Where would I get something like that?
I am def going to be making the turkey bone broth this evening when I get home....Thanks!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the entire beginning of this pups life was flawed.

it is not difficult to stimulate lactation. 

their are herbs which can do this , fenugreek , alfalfa , brewers yeast -- improved base nutrition for the dam including
adequate liquid and good protein sources.

changes are the mother was worn out . How many litters had she had ? How old was she ? 

was she is good condition? 

that the "breeder" put two week old pups on boiled chicken says volumes .

the digestive system for a two week old pup is NOT DEVELOPED , not mature enough , lacking
to digest and absorb chicken let alone boiled enzyme deficient chicken .

the vitamin , MINERAL balance would have been so lacking .

his stomach is sensitive for a reason .

the very last thing this pup should be on is antibiotics . 

a vet prescribed this . huh boy ---- no wonder we are in the mess we are in . 

this pup needs the best high quality food possible. 
this pup needs several small feeds per day .
this pup needs probiotics - essential fatty acids , a good mineral and vitamin 

this has nothing to do with a genetic potential --- the pup is skin and bones --- not your fault 

do NOT rush growth !!!! 

deep nutriton , every calorie has to count for something - you are not pushing weight gain , you are targeting proper sustained growth and IMMUNE health 

then there is vaccinations to consider -- the dog is not in prime health - I'll let others comment on this aspect 

I would delay and/or alter vaccinations -- 

have realistic expectations - don't tax the pups . A normal 11 week old pup may meet certain physical expectations - this pup shouldn't be expected to meet them .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the colostrum is a very good recommendation 

I like the 6 hour certification -- this is a good source , good product


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Colostrum is used for different things in all ages of dogs, so no, your little guy could only benefit from it! Go to those sites and it will tell you how to purchase.

Unless you purchase THK Bone Broth, homemade takes about 24 hours to cook! Basic recipe ingredients are any kind of bones and vinegar.

Here is a recipe:
Bone Broth For Dogs? Here's Why It's A Great Idea! 

Bone Broth:
“*Helps heal and seal your gut, and promotes healthy digestion*: The gelatin found in bone broth is a hydrophilic colloid. It attracts and holds liquids, including digestive juices, thereby supporting proper digestion.” (Mercola) 

Not everyone can afford it, but the following 2 statements really make ya think!
“Perhaps the most important caveat when making broth, whether you're using chicken or beef, is to make sure they're from organically-raised, pastured or grass-fed animals. ” (Mercola)


Sally Fallon of Weston Price Foundation: “Chickens raised in confined animal feeding operations (CAFOs) tend to produce stock that doesn't gel, and this gelatin has long been valued for its therapeutic properties. Besides that, CAFO animals are fed an unnatural diet that is not beneficial for their intestinal makeup, and they're also given a variety of veterinary drugs and growth promoters. You don't want any of these potentially harmful additives in your broth, so make sure to start off with an organically-raised product.”


Also, begin with small amounts and work up to approx 2-3 Tablespoons per meal, to avoid gut upset.
If stool gets loose, go back to previous amount used (where stool was solid) and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut gets use to it. Then increase again and watch. This is called "bowel tolerance".

I'll bet she has no trouble wanting to eat her food with bone broth on it! LOL

Keep us posted!
Moms


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

going back to the beginning of the problem 

at two weeks of age the eyes are just beginning to open 

the pup can't get up walk - 

the sucking reflex is still strong .

how did this person try to feed the pups a fat rich (brain and neural health) canine milk replacer .

each pup would have had to have some bottle feeding - time consuming

was this "breeder" flying by the seat of their pants - not reaching out to a vet or to a group that would give
good advice
or a shelter or other breeder with a wet-nurse dog that could have stood in for the next two weeks 

there is no excuse for not trying to get good information these days 

milk replacer is expensive 

so on their own initiative they push boiled chicken to a young animal who still has that curled
sucking tongue and can't lap up liquid and definitely does not have the swallow sequence , -- and then they resort to a less expensive kibble 

it's a wonder they survived 

colostrum is a good idea -- probiotics --- fish oil for epa/dha -- 

the litter mates must have been dispersed locally -- anyway to support those owners to maximize the health of the others?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Just wanted to say I have never had a pup refuse formula, but I have had pups to weak to suck and that's when you reach for the eye dropper which is even more time consuming. In this case the breeder just failed the pups entirely.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Sabis mom said:


> Just wanted to say I have never had a pup refuse formula, but I have had pups to weak to suck and that's when you reach for the eye dropper which is even more time consuming. In this case the breeder just failed the pups entirely.


epic fail !


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## desinif (Jul 15, 2017)

Hi you have one handsome little boy there! So precious!

When I got Luna at 8 weeks old, she was only 4.5 lbs. She was about your pups size at 10 weeks. Now at 8 months, she's well over the standard size for females and a strong, healthy girl. We feed her Fromm's, which I highly recommend and as others here have recommended. We checked in with our vet regularly to help get her weight up and make sure she was staying healthy, so following the vet's guidelines for feeding her more, etc. I think she caught up quickly to a good weight (1-2 months.)

As others have said, your pup will reach their potential, but he has had a taxing first two months of life. If at any point you are concerned with what the vet is suggesting, you should look into a second opinion or voice those concerns.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

So just for the OP's information, I kept Shadow on a diet of ground whole raw chicken and puppy formula from 3 weeks to 9 weeks. I added canned puppy food slowly. Not a perfect diet but better then nothing. I added the chicken slowly starting with tastes and increasing to a thick paste. I started out feeding her 12 times a day and reduced that to 6 times by 9 weeks. 4 times a day by 12 weeks by which time I had added kibble. My goal was not to fatten up, she was so bad off that any food at all would bloat her stomach so I had to proceed very carefully. She was fed 4 times a day to 9 months, then 3 times to one year.
Worms are an issue for already compromised puppies, and commercial dewormers are not your friend, and vaccines are not recommended.


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## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

Well, I’m back and I’m at a total loss still as of what is going on with Carl. He finished his antibiotics 9 days ago. I started him on prozyme digestive enzymes on a half dose about 6 days ago. I’ve made him a chicken based bone broth that he’s been on for about 9 days. A couple days ago I started Dr. Mercola complete probiotics. This entire time his stool has been soft to mushy. Still a liquid one in there about once a day. Then all day today he’s had pure liquid diarrhea. I’m so stressed and bummed out and feel horrible for him. I’m wondering if his belly doesn’t like chicken. He eats wellness large breed puppy. Which is chicken based. And the bone broth is chicken. But I’ve read food allergies don’t really start until like 6 months. 

I’ve made some ground beef, rice, and pumpkin I was going to give him in the morning. Then maybe switch his food to a non chicken recipe. But I’m so worried that changing his food is just another step down a road that’s continuing to wreck his belly!!! Ugh. So confused.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Start trying limited ingredient kibble. I dealt with this for almost 6 months


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## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

konathegsd said:


> Start trying limited ingredient kibble. I dealt with this for almost 6 months


Would you suggest the beef and rice as a transition to the limited ingredient kibble? Do they make a large breed puppy limited ingredient?


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## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Hi Miz and WELCOME! :greet:
> 
> Really cute pup! Love those coaties!
> 
> ...


Well, I’m back and I’m at a total loss still as of what is going on with Carl. He finished his antibiotics 9 days ago. I started him on prozyme digestive enzymes on a half dose about 6 days ago. I’ve made him a chicken based bone broth that he’s been on for about 9 days. A couple days ago I started Dr. Mercola complete probiotics. This entire time his stool has been soft to mushy. Still a liquid one in there about once a day. Then all day today he’s had pure liquid diarrhea. I’m so stressed and bummed out and feel horrible for him. I’m wondering if his belly doesn’t like chicken. He eats wellness large breed puppy. Which is chicken based. And the bone broth is chicken. But I’ve read food allergies don’t really start until like 6 months. 

I’ve made some ground beef, rice, and pumpkin I was going to give him in the morning. Then maybe switch his food to a non chicken recipe. But I’m so worried that changing his food is just another step down a road that’s continuing to wreck his belly!!! Ugh. So confused.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

My pup had issues too. Vet sent some Hills Science Diet home with us and her poop firmed up. Once that was done, we went back to the food we'd been giving her thinking she was good and she went back to mushy poop. We finally realized it was what we were feeding her that was causing it. We spent about a week separating her food. She was fine on her wet. Dry food made mush, so changed her dry to another brand. She firmed up and has been good ever since the switch

I have heard that chicken is a usual cause of tummy issues. Because your pup's tummy is already upset, I wouldn't waste time with a slow switch. Just switch cold turkey and see what happens after a few days if your pup starts to firm up

My suggestion is wet food is usually cheap and you can buy individual cans. Buy a weeks worth and see what happens. If it doesn't work, you're only out a few bucks (give unopened cans to local shelter or a friend) as opposed to now having a 40# bag of useless dry food (shelters won't take opened bags, but a friend might)


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## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

Armistice said:


> My pup had issues too. Vet sent some Hills Science Diet home with us and her poop firmed up. Once that was done, we went back to the food we'd been giving her thinking she was good and she went back to mushy poop. We finally realized it was what we were feeding her that was causing it. We spent about a week separating her food. She was fine on her wet. Dry food made mush, so changed her dry to another brand. She firmed up and has been good ever since the switch
> 
> I have heard that chicken is a usual cause of tummy issues. Because your pup's tummy is already upset, I wouldn't waste time with a slow switch. Just switch cold turkey and see what happens after a few days if your pup starts to firm up
> 
> My suggestion is wet food is usually cheap and you can buy individual cans. Buy a weeks worth and see what happens. If it doesn't work, you're only out a few bucks (give unopened cans to local shelter or a friend) as opposed to now having a 40# bag of useless dry food (shelters won't take opened bags, but a friend might)


What food did you end up going with? Did you use probiotics and all that?


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

Mizmazzle said:


> What food did you end up going with? Did you use probiotics and all that?


I don't normally discuss food brands. However, since you asked me, I will say that I use Royal Canin GSD Puppy for kibble. We used Alpha All Stages per the breeder and then switched to Costco style, but both of those may have been the issue for soft poop

Zoe's been doing well on the Royal Canin


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm assuming your pup has been dewormed appropriately, right? Has the vet ruled out parvo, giardia, coccidia, etc.?


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## Mizmazzle (Jan 18, 2018)

Armistice said:


> I don't normally discuss food brands. However, since you asked me, I will say that I use Royal Canin GSD Puppy for kibble. We used Alpha All Stages per the breeder and then switched to Costco style, but both of those may have been the issue for soft poop
> 
> Zoe's been doing well on the Royal Canin[/
> 
> ...


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## sunny2017 (Dec 8, 2017)

Do you have an update on how your little one is doing?


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## Autumnday08 (Jul 18, 2018)

I would also like to hear an update! My 12 week puppy is also only 10 pounds. Her stools have gone from soft to liquid. Did you find something that worked?


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## clipke (Nov 14, 2017)

Some pups are much smaller than standard, and some are much larger. Unless you plan on using your pup for competing in shows, I really wouldn't worry about them being perfect breed standard at every stage of life. My dog was under the standard at 5 months, at around 30-40lbs, then by a year he was over 100lbs. I experimented with sled dog food and other high protein foods with pretty rigorous exercise to get some good results. I don't mind him being larger. As long as your dog is happy and healthy, there's nothing to worry about. Smaller dogs tend to live longer, no matter the breed.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Bottle feeding is time consuming, tube feeding is not. Some pups don't take readily to a bottle, especially bottles made for puppies. regular baby bottles are better, actually. But, if they will not take to the nipple on the bottle, then tube feed them. A litter of nine pups eating every 2-3 hours would take forever with bottles, and they lose a lot more calories sucking enough milk-replacer, that weak pups give up and do not get enough. This doesn't happen with tube feeding. The pups should have been tube fed and any vet can show people how to do this. I am sorry your breeder did not know this much. Milk replacer is not expensive. You can buy it by the can and mix water with it, tube it -- then you don't lose as much. 

Ah well. I hope your pup is doing better now. Sometimes they catch up, and sometimes they will have some lasting effects.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Just an FYI - of all the parasites out there, giardia is often the hardest to diagnose (it is difficult to see in the fecal sample) and the hardest to get rid of!

More than one course of medication may be needed.


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