# Nature's Recipe?



## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

This is somewhat OT since the dog I am currently feeding is NOT a GSD, and when I get my GSD I plan to feed differently...

But I value the knowledge and experience I see here so I'd like opinions. 

My 8-lb, 11-year-old poodle/pomeranian cross male dog was fed Nutra Nuggets (Diamond brand) most of his life. My vet insisted for 10 years that I should be feeding him Iams instead but I could not afford it at the time, and he seemed very happy, active, healthy on the Nutra Nuggets.

When he developed a heart issue last year I decided to switch his food to something better in hopes of prolonging his life (he still is happy, healthy, active even with the heart murmur/disease). My cousin had excellent luck with Nature's Recipe, so I switched to that.

He is doing fine on it (Senior Pension formula), happy and healthy.

What's good/bad about this food? Is it really an improvement over the Nutra Nuggets, or Iams? Is there something else in the same price range as Nature's Recipe that would be significantly better? Or should I leave well enough alone since he seems fine on it?

Thanks for any input!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Nature's Recipe is I think similar to Iams in quality... Is this the one you're talking about?



> Quote:
> Nature's Recipe Lifestages Senior Lamb & Rice Formula Dog Food
> 
> Lamb meal, ground rice, rolled oats, ground whole wheat, soybean hulls, animal fat (preserved with tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid), natural flavor, tomato pomace, brewer's yeast, canola oil, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), inositol, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, beta carotene, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, menadione sodium bisuifite complex, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), minerals (zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, iron proteinate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), yeast culture, potassium chloride and yucca schidigera extract.


 It seems to be very low in protein, is there a reason your dog needs to be on a low protein diet? I've found most senior dogs need quite a bit of protein as they they older, and usually higher protein is recommended for heart disease.

The food looks to be a bit over $1 a pound or so, is that right? Some other foods with a similar price range which are much higher in quality are Canidae, Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul, By Nature, Fromm...


I'd recommend checking out this page for some info on supplements/diet for heart disease:
http://www.dogaware.com/specific.html#heart


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Dog's need protein for lean muscles / energy and fat for energy the Nature's recipe has little protein and fat, which means - a LOT of carbohydrates. Dogs need energy from FAT and Protein first and I'm learning don't need cereal carbs - there are those on this board that are in shock because I WAS Mr. "Grain" in kibble guy for so long.....Not saying though don't use it - but I'm becoming more OPEN minded. Examples:

My 13 1/2 year old Dachshund has been eating Wellness CORE Cans (1/2 a can a day), RAW from Natures Variety or Orijen Regional Red kibble (or a mix thereof) for a few weeks. His poop already is much smaller. I feel already by seeing less coming out that he is using more of the food. Great for a SENIOR dog.

I have started a 30 day trial with a grain-free and RAW diet for ALL my dogs (just started two days ago). Primarily because Angeles was licking his booty so I thought - hmmm anal gland issue or food? Added more meat and it stopped! If Louis is doing so good and others are seeing great results too....maybe I should try this out and have an OPEN mind. So the trial for all began. I do believe I see a difference already. All my dogs are putting out LESS poop. They were on Pro Plan Shredded Blends and Alpo canned.

Not sure how much you are supposed to feed your dog (I didn't see a feeding chart for it at petco.com). With Orijen kibble - 1/2 a cup a day OR 1/2 can of Wellness CORE (the 12.5 oz can) OR 4 RAW Medallions from Natures Variety. So - even though the cost may appear more - less comes out (more nutrients stay in) and you do feed less...so I bet really about the same in the end. With my little one for sure he is staying grain-free and high protein. The others are in a "trial" but I have a FEELING they are going to be staying the course. That is what my gut is telling me. They love their food, they poop less, they don't get the "sugar rush" seen with foods high in carbs and the food has more Omega's in it which is a BIG plus! 

Best in your search for what works best for your dog.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Chicago Canine,

Yes, that's the formula. It is way more than $1 a pound for me but maybe I have not been shopping around enough. I was buying 5lb bags at PetSmart for $10.99/bag. I didn't want to buy a huge bag in case it didn't agree with him. Then I got coupons for $5 off/bag so that does bring the cost down significantly.

My vet (who I do not trust at this point, am looking for a new vet) keeps telling me Iams is the "best" food. She also has said nothing to me about altering his diet for heart disease nor about his protein needs. I will read the link and look into the foods you mentioned, thank you.

Robert,

That's very interesting. I have to admit I have been your run-of-the-mill, uninformed dog owner for a lot of years. I LOVE my dog, but figured I was doing great for him just not buying Walmart brand Ol'Roy or some other cheap food. 

My dog has issues with non kibble food (I think that's what it is)... whenever he eats canned, moist, too many dog treats, or accidentally gets ANY table food (like if a kid drops it and I don't get it in time) he gets bad, runny diarrhea. Once he got into a trash can and eat stuff and got very sick with bloody poop for days. Anyway, seems if he gets food that is not just dry dog food, he gets the runs. Of course I have not tried higher quality stuff though.

Isn't high protein diet associated with kidney issues, or is that just in people?

Thanks for the info


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Some other foods with a similar price range which are much higher in quality are Canidae, Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul, By Nature, Fromm...

Are these kibbles? And high protein? I will check them out when I go to the store and see what they cost.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

They are kibbles. The protein varies, you'd have to check but I am 90% sure they are all much higher in protein than the Nature's Variety senior. Canidae also has a grain free food which I believe is even higher in protein.

The $1/pound price I was looking at was for a large bag, smaller bags always end up costing more.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Oops sorry I meant to say Nature's Recipe senior, not Nature's Variety.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: cassadee7
> Isn't high protein diet associated with kidney issues, or is that just in people?
> 
> Thanks for the info


I used to think that too - I was actually kind of scared into thing "no high protein!!!!" Oh well, the seeds of fear planted in me are dying off









http://www.championpetfoods.com/faq/

There is some information there...here are some studies that had dogs with kidney issues fed a high protein diet and those that were normal and there was no problem. So the thinking is that low protein diets may not be what is needed in those circumstances or at least it didn't seem to help out. Good examples on this board of dogs fed RAW their whole life or even high protein kibbles and dogs doing well. No kidney issues caused by high protein. And the orig. study was done in rats - not dogs....so the study always cited about kidney disease - it references rats....there are biological differences between the species.

Probably the kind or proteins could be of issue along with other lower quality ingredients. Quality meat proteins vs. plant based glutens would make a difference. RAW meats are generally more digestible than kibbles with grains (according to a recent presentation I saw from an online pet food trade show with a study done in cats). While it is true dogs can digest grains, they can digest meats better and meats are complete protein sources. 

The % of protein in that particular food is like the bare minimum. I would think your senior would do better on a food with more protein and less carbs and any switch should be SLOW, like up to 10 days slow, especially when you know your dogs system is sensitive to change. What could help is the addition of probiotics and even http://www.thehonestkitchen.com which has a product called "perfect form" that can help with stool issues. Pumpkin in a can (not pie mix) can also help with loose diarrhea. Eagle Pack has a Holistic Selects transition product that includes digestive enzymes, etc... to help the transition to a higher quality food. I've never used it just know about it. My dogs have been very good about being able to eat most things


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Thanks so much Robert, I am definitely going to start easing him into a higher protein diet and see how he does. I just love this dog, he is little but boy what a great dog


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Sounds like he has a great doggie parent to take care of him!


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Ok, one more question...

I have several bags of the Nature's Recipe left. Is there something high protein I can mix into it to give my senior/heart disease dog enough protein until I switch brands?


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## EmilyK0429 (Dec 6, 2009)

You can always add some chicken or ground beef. Plus whenever you get a new food you will want to do a gradual switch so you will need to mix the Nature's Recipe with the new food. I am sure someone with more experience will tell you exactly how to switch the food. When I do it I try to do it very slowly most of the time in about 2wks time. However, my Meega has a very sensitive stomach.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Thanks Emily, yeah I have to go slow too. Speedy gets bad diarrhea if I mess with his diet too much.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I prefer low carb, high protein foods for my tribe. While it's true high protein is safe & natural for dogs, it's imperative that dogs get adequate water when fed high pro diets. 

It was previously believed that only cats lacked adequate thirst drive for dry diets, & that dogs would naturally imbibe sufficient water if it was provided. It's been found that this isn't always true. Monitor water intake & be certain your dog is drinking enough.

I thoroughly wet the kibble prior to serving it. (IF it was alive it'd be drowning, actually). Some dogs dislike added water. Some owners feel it increases the chances of bloat. IF you're opposed to adding water, do be certain your dog really is drinking enough.

I always fed the muttchkins dry kibble scattered so that Pluto, a major bully, didn't eat both his & Huckleberry's. She wound up with a nasty case of bladder stones that I believe would have been prevented if I'd fed her wet rather than dry. (IF the urine is sufficiently dilute crystals won't form). She's now on a funky RX diet that I suspect isn't necessary while fed super wet, but I won't take chances with her, so until/unless I get conclusive info, she's fed the funky*junky RX diet .


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