# puppy obedience for IPO



## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

So Luna is 3 months on the first, she has sit down to around 80% down is still working and recall is well at a goose egg now before she would come now she looks at me and will ignore me. she walks on a leash fine she is starting to pull a little so i want to start teaching heel. My question i have been told do not make lesson long around 2 to 3 mins long is what i do them at right now, but how man do i do, also can i switch up the training one lesson is downing 2 mins switch to sitting, then switch to following? i am struggling i feel like i am lost in a HUGE sea. also i was told to minimize her play time with my other dog because she will start putting that before me, which yes i have seen.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm not sure if you have a specific question, or just looking for advice in general? At three months old, you want to build focus and make everything into a game, and not really think of formal obedience and formal training sessions. 

Reward all eye contact. Reward each time your pup comes to your side in the basic position on her own, without being asked. Always have treats on your to reward the correct behaviours - catch them as they occur, and praise and reward. Your pup will think she is the smartest, bestest, most amazing pup ever! 

Think more in terms of engagement training more so than formal recall. When you recall her, make it part of play - at three months, every recall should result in a furious game of tug with you. Manage her and set her up to succeed. Make it so that all her choices are the right choices, then she won't even think of not doing what you asked of her. If she is not coming to you when you call her, you are being way too boring, so make yourself more interesting. Run the other way and have her chase you! 

Are you with a club?


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Castlemaid said:


> I'm not sure if you have a specific question, or just looking for advice in general? At three months old, you want to build focus and make everything into a game, and not really think of formal obedience and formal training sessions.
> 
> Reward all eye contact. Reward each time your pup comes to your side in the basic position on her own, without being asked. Always have treats on your to reward the correct behaviours - catch them as they occur, and praise and reward. Your pup will think she is the smartest, bestest, most amazing pup ever!
> 
> ...


No you answered my main question as well as some other indirectly. Technically no i am not part of a club but i did meet a guy who is part of one and he said when Luna gets older he never did say a exact age to start bringing her around, on the 9th of June she will have her rabies shot and be allowed to join, but he said to wait til she is more mature to actually bring her not sure what that is. My other main question is should i limit her playing with my other dog? he guy did a informal evaluation on her and he said her food drive wasnt massive (mind you she has been in the car with me all day and she never been to this guys house and one of his dog got loose and went to say hi to her and she acted like the dog was attacking her he wasnt but she lost her stuff over it) after she calm down he did a very basic evaluation on her he did like her drive with the flirt ball but said her food drive wasnt as high as he hoped. for me if i have a treat she will follow me around til the end of time. i guess i am looking for what i should be doing with a 3 month old and what she should know as a 3 month old.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

When I start recall with puppies I do it from just a few feet away and call as I am running backwards. When they get to me they get party style praise. I never, ever call a puppy to take it inside, crate, etc. It is always fun. The only downside to teaching this way that I have seen is that most of my dogs use me to stop on the recall. Lol. When I was training Sabi I had bruises on my stomach from her front feet, but she came like a bullet and dropped to a sit directly in front of me every time. 
I also use two different commands, Here-which is a formal recall, and Come-which means follow me/come near me. Both are different then Close-which means keep doing what you are doing but do it within a few feet of me.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

A mistake a lot of people do is put too much obedience on a young dog, hoping to impress the club members - Obedience can come later. What makes for an impressive dog is self-confidence, engagement, focus, and rag and food drive. That is what you should be working on. 

Pup does perfect at home but falls apart at another place is a concern. Work on building her confidence up, and taking her out and about and playing, playing, playing with her in all sorts of new environments. Forget formal obedience, build her up so that everything is a major adventure, and she is the best, bravest, most capable adventuring pup ever! Nothing, NOTHING is as rewarding as playing with you! You want her to have eyes only for you, play only with you, look to you for all her needs. You want her strutting around like she owns the world, and she can't do wrong, and she knows it! 

About your other dog, YES! She is already not into you all that much (but you can change that), so do separate and limit her time with your other dog. What I did with Gryffon and previous pup I had is for the first year, I kept the new pup separated from my older dog all the time - take one dog with me to work, leave the other one home. Keep them separated through crates, baby-gates, x-pens in and about the house. I allowed one or two supervised play sessions together with my older dog a day. I did take them for daily leash walks together, and I did not count that as play time, more like "mind your manners even with you buddy there time". No rough-housing in the house, period! Lots and lots one-on-one engagement time.

A lot of people will say that they never went to those extremes, and their IPO dog turned out just fine, and it well may be so. But with a puppy that already seems to need more focus and engagement work, I would not risk her becoming "doggy" and if IPO is your goal, I would work out a plan where she has very limited contact with your other dog.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Castlemaid said:


> A mistake a lot of people do is put too much obedience on a young dog, hoping to impress the club members - Obedience can come later. What makes for an impressive dog is self-confidence, engagement, focus, and rag and food drive. That is what you should be working on.
> 
> Pup does perfect at home but falls apart at another place is a concern. Work on building her confidence up, and taking her out and about and playing, playing, playing with her in all sorts of new environments. Forget formal obedience, build her up so that everything is a major adventure, and she is the best, bravest, most capable adventuring pup ever! Nothing, NOTHING is as rewarding as playing with you! You want her to have eyes only for you, play only with you, look to you for all her needs. You want her strutting around like she owns the world, and she can't do wrong, and she knows it!
> 
> ...


 Ok, sadly i do have to say she isnt in to me as much as my last GSD who was always at my side. My daily routine is wife gets up around 630 am and feeds both of them, lets them play for 15 to 20 mins then re crates them both, i get up around 730am and let Luna out first to go pee then put her away to let the other one out, let them play for 10 mins and take luna to work with me, she is in the crate in the car with me and almost every stop i let her out and we do some basic training in a parking lot with noise around, she does well for the most part with that. i get home around 5 pm and i will crate Luna up while i go to take a shower, come out out our golden out to bathroom and do some play with her, she loves her bird, all while Luna is spazzing out in the crate because she wants to play, sometime i relent and let her out. After Angels play time its training with Luna, sit, down, recall and following. then its crate time for a bit and we let the golden free roam for a bit. After about 1 hr in the crate i let her out to just roam around in the house and play tug with her (she does love that) do sit and down with her, haven't started stay (i do have her make eye contact before letting her out of the crate or to eat.) by this time it is around 8pm. wife will play with her playing fetch or just petting her, we let angel and luna play til around 9pm depending on how they r playing sometime i give them a time out. we go to bed around 10pm to 11pm before we let them out and they r both good all night. we also stop letting Luna have water after 9pm. on my days off she is crated whenever i cant have eyes on her for whatever reason, i do several training session thru out the day with her, again sit, down and follow. i keep the sesion between 2 to 3 mins long. we also go on small walks up and down the street, other tidbits is sometime i will do no training all day and let her be her.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Focus and position...short short short

Focus from basic and focus from front

restrained recalls/puppy recalls

Sit - plaitz - stand - a game like simon says - ddo with treats and a clicker....

in front - plaitz to sit - be toe to toe

basic position - focus

heeling way down the road


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

wolfstraum said:


> Focus and position...short short short
> 
> Focus from basic and focus from front
> 
> ...


When i have her sit before i give her a treat i say "watch me" and look for eye contact before i give the treat. Restrained recall that needs two people right, when the wife is home we will go to the side walk and call her between the both of us.

I should stop having her sit next to me on the left then? 

How do i get her toe to toe with me do i move or have her move?

It is entirely normal for a 3 month old not to be all into you right? i had this issue with our golden but by 4 to 5 months old she was ALL about you in a creepy way, she would give you the thousand yard stare when it was training time she was DAILED in. Having her do eye contact is focusing on me correct?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

You can start teaching rhythm and muscle memory for heeling at this age. Right side, don't worry about position. They are just learning to move with a nice consistent rhythm that will hold over once you move them to your left and start formal heeling. You can also work on spins (right spin with right hand, left spin with left hand), correct stand to down (elbows down first or at the minimum going down totally square), backing to prepare for the kick back stand, tuck sits, cookie toss recalls and things like this. Very short sessions.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Castlemaid said:


> A mistake a lot of people do is put too much obedience on a young dog, hoping to impress the club members - Obedience can come later. What makes for an impressive dog is self-confidence, engagement, focus, and rag and food drive. That is what you should be working on.
> 
> Pup does perfect at home but falls apart at another place is a concern. Work on building her confidence up, and taking her out and about and playing, playing, playing with her in all sorts of new environments. Forget formal obedience, build her up so that everything is a major adventure, and she is the best, bravest, most capable adventuring pup ever! Nothing, NOTHING is as rewarding as playing with you! You want her to have eyes only for you, play only with you, look to you for all her needs. You want her strutting around like she owns the world, and she can't do wrong, and she knows it!
> 
> ...


I should have also stated she was going thru her fear phase, so she was jumpy-ish. currently she is over her (issue).


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

wolfstraum said:


> Focus and position...short short short
> 
> Focus from basic and focus from front
> 
> ...


Clicker is a must then? i was using it but stopped, i should go ahead and start it back up?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I use a clicker for some things and my voice, "yes", for others. I always have my voice with me, but like the clicker when my voice amps up the dog too much.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

lhczth said:


> I use a clicker for some things and my voice, "yes", for others. I always have my voice with me, but like the clicker when my voice amps up the dog too much.


seems like so little time for some much to due.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

No rush. You have time.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Play with her, a lot, everywhere. The more willing she is to play with you under stress or around distractions, the less those things will matter.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

hoytn said:


> seems like so little time for some much to due.



It isn't a race to get your first bh. I have found that building a strong foundation and going slower has been very beneficial in the long run, especially as I am learning.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

hoytn said:


> Clicker is a must then? i was using it but stopped, i should go ahead and start it back up?



no not a must - I like it for shaping - but use a marker word just as much....


lee


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

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mspiker03 said:


> It isn't a race to get your first bh. I have found that building a strong foundation and going slower has been very beneficial in the long run, especially as I am learning.


No, i know she is only 3 months but i feel like i am not sure what i am suppose to be doing a 3 month to give her a good head start, i do not want to do anything that would effect her later on. I do like the play with her idea LOL. I am trying to slow my brain down and go slow and think of one thing at a time but it is difficult because well i actually cant explain why.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

hoytn said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> No, i know she is only 3 months but i feel like i am not sure what i am suppose to be doing a 3 month to give her a good head start, i do not want to do anything that would effect her later on. I do like the play with her idea LOL. I am trying to slow my brain down and go slow and think of one thing at a time but it is difficult because well i actually cant explain why.



But you said you were going to club in two weeks - that isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things. Maybe you could have a club member give you a private lesson of what to work on in the meantime? 

I totally understand wanting to get to point b yesterday - but you have over a year until the bh. And you don't have to do it the day she turns 15 months.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Club level 80's. That's where impatience keeps me. I try to make up for it by having a temper, but that hasn't really helped either.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

mspiker03 said:


> But you said you were going to club in two weeks - that isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things. Maybe you could have a club member give you a private lesson of what to work on in the meantime?
> 
> I totally understand wanting to get to point b yesterday - but you have over a year until the bh. And you don't have to do it the day she turns 15 months.


before a BH she would need a AD and traffic assessment? My biggest concerns are her lack of focusing on me (which i remember my golden not doing until she was around 4 months old) and her ignoring me (that actually get me mad) and i know she can tell so when i get mad i crate her to take a break and not train while im mad because i feel it isnt good to do. As of today i have gone back to the baby basic of sit, down and watch me until she has it down pat. Her size is also messing me up, she doesnt look like she is 3 months but according to GSD growth chart she is right on the money, so i keep having to tell myself she is only 3 months old Nate you need to relax. Im not going to the club in 2 weeks, Luna will have her rabies shot on the 9th so if i wanted to go i could. however i want to make sure she is ready.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Steve Strom said:


> Club level 80's. That's where impatience keeps me. I try to make up for it by having a temper, but that hasn't really helped either.



Lol


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

The traffic portion of the bh is done after obedience. The AD is separate.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

mspiker03 said:


> The traffic portion of the bh is done after obedience. The AD is separate.


I honestly did not know that, i read a lot of IPO stuff too. I feel like either a cant read or i misread stuff. both could be true LOL


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Most people take about two years to get ready for the BH. If you are getting mad, your whole attitude and expectations are driving her away from you. 

Change your point of view: no hurry, no time frame. You got a puppy to have fun with, watch your ego. From now on, you have no expectations other than having fun and building your bond in a fun and positive way. Develop the mind-frame and project the thought and feeling that she can do no wrong, that she is the best puppy in the world, that everything she does makes you happy and proud. What you are seeing is a reflection of your attitude and energy that you give out - change you, and change her. She is not your Golden, get rid of that reference point. Start again from zero in how you relate to her.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Castlemaid said:


> Most people take about two years to get ready for the BH. If you are getting mad, your whole attitude and expectations are driving her away from you.
> 
> Change your point of view: no hurry, no time frame. You got a puppy to have fun with, watch your ego. From now on, you have no expectations other than having fun and building your bond in a fun and positive way. Develop the mind-frame and project the thought and feeling that she can do no wrong, that she is the best puppy in the world, that everything she does makes you happy and proud. What you are seeing is a reflection of your attitude and energy that you give out - change you, and change her. She is not your Golden, get rid of that reference point. Start again from zero in how you relate to her.


 i will do my best to do just that. On a side note, how do you stop her from freaking out when the golden is out of the crate playing around? do we just ignore her and she will stop after a few weeks of us ignoring her?


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## Genalis_mom (Mar 9, 2018)

oh gosh, I really appreciate this thread!

Genali and I had our first session with our trainer last week, and we were given a "homework assignment" of building focus. We are trying, but right now I have little to no endurance and went back to work yesterday. I am on light duty, but it's still 12 hours. So I am pooped when I get home and then I try to work on focus with a puppy who is all "OH LOOK A BUTTERFLY" everytime something moves. I feel your pain.

Tonight, I just gave up and sat down. Genali is playing happily at my feet. I am stressing too much over gaining this focus too fast I think and I need to chill. She is tearing my fingers to shreds with this walk in front of me and get a treat every step game. Both my thumbs are bloody and sore. Cheese is a great training treat one night and a bah humbug bore the next. My dog likes to run off and chase every sound that comes along, but she always runs right back to me. To say the least, I am frustrated and my dog can sense it. 

Honestly, I don't want to hang out with me tonight either!


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Genalis_mom said:


> oh gosh, I really appreciate this thread!
> 
> Genali and I had our first session with our trainer last week, and we were given a "homework assignment" of building focus. We are trying, but right now I have little to no endurance and went back to work yesterday. I am on light duty, but it's still 12 hours. So I am pooped when I get home and then I try to work on focus with a puppy who is all "OH LOOK A BUTTERFLY" everytime something moves. I feel your pain.
> 
> ...


LOL right now Luna is crated Angel is out and Luna is losing her mind, making howling sounds and moaning sounds. i feel you with the focus i swear she thinks nope im not looking at you because i DONT want to.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

I swear Hoytn, it’s like you’re verbatim channeling my thoughts from a year ago mixed with my current problem LOL

I’d tell you to relax but you’re probably not gonna, but at least remember to have some fun! This is a marathon not a race, and it’s SUPPOSED to be fun remember?!?!

I will say one way I’ve used my young pup adoring my older dog as a training advantage is backtying him while I train her where he can see what we’re doing. When I switch them out his drive is off the charts, he needs to release this energy he’s built up so bad he’s about to explode and I’m the only game in town. 

Big improvement over what I was doing which was the same but using a crate in the back of my suv. Something about backtying just gets them ready to rock and roll. Slowly but surely he’s getting to where playing with me is better than or at least equal to playing with her. 

Obviously the advice of separation as much as possible is the best choice, but I’m currently stuck in a hotel for the next month or so thanks to a kitchen fire so I’m making the best of it. 

As far as “what to do with her?” I do a lot of the below routine that Michael Ellis does, along with play and tracking never too early to start that.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

hoytn said:


> i will do my best to do just that. On a side note, how do you stop her from freaking out when the golden is out of the crate playing around? do we just ignore her and she will stop after a few weeks of us ignoring her?


Look into Susan Garrett’s Crate Games. Buy the DVD. It’s worth it.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Crate Luna where she can't see you or Angel. You should be crating them in separate rooms anyways, that is part of keeping them separated to prevent doggy-ness. When she is older and she has more self-control, keeping her quiet on command will come into play. 

When she is about six or seven months, and she has a solid stay, start training her with the Distraction of Angel being around her - right now it is completely unfair to ask that level of self-control from her. When she already has a pretty good down/stay with distraction (lesser distractions than Angel), start doing itty-bitty sessions with her and Angel. At first a few seconds of down-stay-quiet is cause for a puppy-party, and rewarded with a furious play session with YOU. Then you can play/train with both of them, the dogs waiting their turn in a polite, self-controlled manner as you work one at a time. 

Remember to do baby-steps, and remember to go slow and build a solid foundation of Luna being successful. But for now, manage her to avoid behaviours you want to extinguish.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

I am unable to crate in different rooms, so when I do training with Luna i will put Angel in my comp room or take Luna outside which works good to. I was talking about when Luna created for break time and Angel's out of her crate for her play time, that's when Luna loses her mind. Normally I put a blanket over the crate and she relaxes. I have told the wife we are going back to baby steps with training.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The blanket over the crate is a good solution if that works. Remember #1 thing is have fun with her. If you are getting frustrated, you need an attitude adjustment, LOL, not the puppy.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Ya if I feel like I'm getting mad or disappointed I take a break


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