# Comment and question at class the other night, Alsation



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, I try to be friendly at dog classes, and I gravitate toward the GSD and GSD-wannabe dogs, and if they aren't available, any formidable German breed.

But, I was in luck I thought, on Thursday. There was this critter who looked like a GSD, but big and long coated. So I asked, "Is your dog a Shiloh, or is it a coat?" She said, "she's an Alsation." 

So I said, ok, a German Shepherd then. 

She said, actually she has no German Shepherd in her. They are trying to make a breed that resembles a wolf with no wolf in them. She said Great Pyranese and some other stuff. 

Well, of course I said that I thought the English renamed their German Shepherds Alsations and still call them that. But of course we were called away.

So now there is some breed in the US called Alsations that are not GSDs?


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

I don't think so..I could be wrong. I always see GSD's in the UK referred to as Alsation's (sp?)

Sounds like that woman may not know what she is talking about.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

There was a GSD/Great Pyranese mix at our local nursery the other day. (he was a rescue) He looked just like a GP but had the markings of a saddle back GSD. The dog had been shaved so really couldn't tell what kind of coat it had, long or short. I asked the owner about the dogs temperament, she said he (Sam) was really really smart, and really really stubborn. Anyway...he didn't look anything like a wolf.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Seek and ye shall find. 

American Alsatian Puppies for Sale


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

That, definitely looked like the dog she had. 

Thanks.


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

Interesting. It sounds like the non-GSD-GSD. I have never heard of them.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

If they are trying to make a breed that looks like a wolf, they are failing miserably.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Go figure it was created in Southern California. I live in SoCal so I am going to create my own breed. 

It is a good looking dog. I learn something new every day. I would have thought the same as you (OP) about alsatian being a GSD.


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

I actually just read about a "Tamaskan" dog being bred to look like wolves- i think they have it much closer

Tamaskan Dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

there was a great deal of anti German sentiment and the German Shepherd was changed in name to the Alsation Wolf Dog. In US the dog became the Shepherd dog . Berlin Ontario became Kitchener Ontario. The British monarchy with great Queen Victoria from the German houses of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha , was changed to the familial name of WINDSOR .
By the way the German states of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha merged into the new state of Thuringia , one of the main regions providing land race , regional dogs , that were part of the creation of "the German Shepherd Dog".

We have had recent changes in names -- 2003 , France having strong opposition to US invasion of Iraq -- so French products were pulled , banned , and changed in name. French fries , became Freedom Fries , Do You Want 'Freedom Fries' With That? - CBS News

This sticks in my memory because I introduced a newby to schutzhund , a French man , who became a top competitor (Carmspack Chunko Sch H 3 (nationals) and a skilled decoy. His nickname was Freedom Fries !

I was a member of the Alsation League of Great Britain and have a collection of their hard cover year books . The name on the spine is "Alsation" -- then abruptly in the late 70's the name reverted to the correct German Shepherd , as it remains to this day.

The breed did take on a bit of a unique characteristic as dogs are bred by and for the needs of the people , and being an island with strict quarantine little new , or continental blood was available. Only in the last 10-15 years , thanks to the Chunnel, has continental European dog genetics been easily (relatively) introduced (pet-passport system).

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

carmspack said:


> there was a great deal of anti German sentiment and the German Shepherd was changed in name to the Alsation Wolf Dog. In US the dog became the Shepherd dog . Berlin Ontario became Kitchener Ontario. The British monarchy with great Queen Victoria from the German houses of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha , was changed to the familial name of WINDSOR .
> By the way the German states of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha merged into the new state of Thuringia , one of the main regions providing land race , regional dogs , that were part of the creation of "the German Shepherd Dog".
> 
> We have had recent changes in names -- 2003 , France having strong opposition to US invasion of Iraq -- so French products were pulled , banned , and changed in name. French fries , became Freedom Fries , Do You Want 'Freedom Fries' With That? - CBS News
> ...


I think my mind was just blown. I really need to read more!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

clean up, clean up in aisle 3.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Dooney's Mom said:


> I actually just read about a "Tamaskan" dog being bred to look like wolves- i think they have it much closer
> 
> Tamaskan Dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I agree, the tamaskan is a lot closer. I can't imagine why they would include a great pyrenees to try to make something that looks like a wolf. With their huge square heads, floppy ears, long slightly curled tails, square bodies, dark eyes, barrel chests, and short legs, they are like the complete opposite of a wolf.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

carmspack said:


> clean up, clean up in aisle 3.


Seriously! Haha I am in awe of the knowledge some of you have on this forum. It's amazing you can not only know all this, but remember it when it is needed or applies.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I was so surprised when the Shiloh and King shepherds started appearing in the all-registry "Dog Breed Encyclopedia" type books... I had no idea they were considered 'legitimate', especially since both are quite recent and almost entirely limited to single breeders. I guess I'll add the American Alsatian to my 'color me shocked' list!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

take your fish oil --

anyway -- that is a period in history , Victorian through Edwardian that I love to study. Basically the period that changed the world for all time. Problems solved with yet more problems which we experience the after math to some 100 years later . All that for a family feud . When George V and Kaiser Wilhelm and Tsar Nicholas were all related. There are some black and white pictures with George V and Nicholas standing side by side and they look like clones !! I am serious. Here is a good book BARNES & NOBLE | George, Nicholas and Wilhelm: Three Royal Cousins and the Road to World War I by Miranda Carter, Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group | NOOK Book (eBook), Paperback, Hardcover, Audiobook
Three first cousins . 

How's this for you --- File:Tsar Nicholas II & King George V.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Part of the study of the history of the German Shepherd , for me at least, is understanding the regions , the use and style of dog , and that means a map of greater Germania -- a large map including Alsace which had been traded back and forth with France several times and parts reaching into "czech - poland, austria ....."


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

spent a wonderful afternoon full throttle discussion with friend Linda Shaw last week --- here is her collection of all the GSD family members , types and spin offs Shawlein Fine Art & Purebred German Shepherd Dogs

there is a book in the works , near future , which should be among the best out there as far as research and presentation. 
that is all the information at this time --

Carmen


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Selzer that person who said Alsation failed to complete the name, if they were talking about a recent creation made to look like wolf , with no wolf genetics. That name should have been Alsation Shepalute -- see Linda Shaw link of the family of GSD (scroll to near bottom) 

Carmen


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

good grief American Alsation FORMERLY known as Alsation Shepalute 
For the dog breed known in the UK as an "Alsatian", see German Shepherd.
American AlsatianA silver adult American AlsatianOther namesAlsatian ShepaluteCountry of originUnited States[hide]TraitsWeightMale79–120 pounds (36–54 kg)Female75–100 pounds (34–45 kg)HeightMale25–28 inches (63–71 cm)Female24–27 inches (61–69 cm)ColorMost commonly golden or silver sableLitter size5–12Life span12–14 years[hide]Classification and standardsNot recognized by any major kennel clubDog (_Canis lupus familiaris_)
The *American Alsatian* (English pronunciation: /ælˈseɪʃən/), formerly known as the Alsatian Shepalute,[1][2] is a large breed of domestic dog (_Canis lupus familiaris_) originating in the United States of America, bred back to resemble the Dire Wolf's bone and body structure. It was developed from purebred Alaskan Malamute, German Shepherd, English Mastiff, Anatolian Shepherd and Great Pyrenees lines,[3] through selective breeding. The breed was developed as a large companion dog, making it the only large breed of dog originally bred for this purpose. Although the American Alsatian can be trained to work and some have been successful as wilderness search and rescue dogs, this breed does not possess a strong desire for the physical demands of most working dog endeavors.[4] The American Alsatian is most suited for the gentle work of therapy dogs or Reading Education Assistance Dogs (READ

I guess Shepalute sounded like the bits and pieces that it is.


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

looks to me like a lazy GSD


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

It's amusing here in the UK - the number of people who say to us "Is he a German Shepherd or an Alsation" - and will not accept the fact that they are one and the same breed. 

Oh- and they've always got an uncle who's got one - and he's 3 foot tall and 18 inches across - yes, whatever!!!  The best of it is, our last shepherd was 29" and 100 pounds min.- not exactly small himself. 

We just give up :crazy: 
___________
Sue


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Seek and ye shall find.
> 
> American Alsatian Puppies for Sale


Gorgeous dog. I, too, have always thought that "Alsatian" was just another name for German Shepherd. Very interesting read, thanks for posting!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

it's google knowledge. 



mycobraracr said:


> Seriously! Haha I am in awe of the knowledge some of you have on this forum. It's amazing you can not only know all this, but remember it when it is needed or applies.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

it's American Alsatian.



Whiteshepherds said:


> Seek and ye shall find.
> 
> American Alsatian Puppies for Sale





DharmasMom said:


> Gorgeous dog. I, too, have always thought that "Alsatian" was just another name for German Shepherd. Very interesting read, thanks for posting!


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

nitemares said:


> looks to me like a lazy GSD


It sounds like the perfect companion for people who want the look of a GSD/Wolf but not the energy and drive. I wouldn't want one, but I'd rather see someone breeding these than breeding purebred GSD's that can't work.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

it's google knowledge. 


Quote:
Originally Posted by *mycobraracr*  
_Seriously! Haha I am in awe of the knowledge some of you have on this forum. It's amazing you can not only know all this, but remember it when it is needed or applies_



oh doggiedad , how very wrong you are -- give me a phone call and you'll have a very spontaneous conversation on these topics .

contribute something beside an insult .

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Wow, you learn something new every day. Selzer, I can totally understand you asking if it was a Shiloh. I have a Shiloh and I would've thought it was a Shiloh too.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Thanks for the info Carmen. Here I thought the breed was still being called Alsation in England. This is due to the fact that most of my GSD books are from back in the 70s. Ah well, she should have qualified it an American Alsation, as the English usage is really not that far dead, that still some people call them Alsations. But whatever. I cannot stop calling the white ones GSDs either.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I went through my storage and found The German Shepherd Dog League of Great Britain 1980 edition Diamond Jubilee Handbook . There is a long winded "60 Years History of the League" pg 7 . Some interesting notes ---- previous to 1919 a few had been owned and exhibited here under the schedule "Foreign Dogs" --and even the most cursory examination of the records reveal the vital part that the organization which started as the "Alsation Wolf Dog Club" and has finally become the "German Shepherd Dog League of Great Britain" has played in bringing our breed to its present day eminence." 

It goes on to say that in 1918 there was an interest to get prospective members which by April 1919 , one year later , had nearly a hundred entries "including the names of many officers who had become acquainted with the breed during the operation on the Western Front".
May 7 1919 the name was recognized as Alsation Wolf Dog , championships were granted, and restrictions on imported dogs born during the prohibited period 
The Alsation Wolf Dog club flourished for the next 5 years under The Lady Helen McCalmont. In 1924 opposition appeared in the form of the Alsation League of Great Britain under Air Commodore Cecil-Wright . One year later the two clubs amalgamate , Alsation League of Great Britain , to present day final recognition of the German Shepherd dog . 

This was interesting in 1919 there were 54 (gsd) registered . By 1926 that figure had risen to 8,056 heading the kennel dogs list of registrations (of all breeds) .

For the first couple of years the imported foundation stock was mainly French (notably from the Ponthieu and Terraquese kennels) but from 1921 onwards German imports predominated . 

the following pages go on to accounts of the breeds tremendous fashion and popularity and THE GET RICH QUICK BRIGADE which cashed in to the popularity and nearly brought the breed to ruin.

so some things never change

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

That is a very floofy wolf.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> That is a very floofy wolf.


Maybe it was having a bad hair day.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Yeah, the American Alsatian. Used to be called the Alsatian Shepalute. Trying to make a dog that looks like the Dire Wolf, which has been extinct since the last ice age so nobody really knows what it looks like.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

selzer said:


> Thanks for the info Carmen. Here I thought the breed was still being called Alsation in England. This is due to the fact that most of my GSD books are from back in the 70s. Ah well, she should have qualified it an American Alsation, as the English usage is really not that far dead, that still some people call them Alsations.


My father always called them police dogs or Alsations because when he was a kid, that's what they were. Old habits are hard to break. (and he wasn't from England )


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