# fear agression vs protection



## QUANTO (Oct 27, 2011)

how do I decipher if Quanto's behavior (barking at men when intoduced) is a protective response or a sign of fear aggression? Thanks for your help!!!


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/weekly-discussion-topics/156050-protective-fearful.html


----------



## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

Essentially the same thing in an untrained dog. The dog is responding to a strange person he feels is potentially harmful. His barking is an attempt to make the intruder go away. He is fearful of the unknown intruder and trying to protect himself and his territory from that person. Fearful dogs will sometimes work themselves into a frenzy and do something unpredictable. 

If the intruder does go away, like the mailman or the UPS man for instance, the dog thinks his barking frightened the man away. The dog will be even more confident he can drive the next guy away. Pretty soon you have an habitual response that is hard to stop.

A well socialized dog will be quietly watchful of strangers that you invite into his territory but will accept them if his owner is not giving fearful signals. In other words, if a confident dog senses you are afraid of a stranger, he will react negatively and may bark or stand between you and the strange man. That would fit more into the category of protective but in truth, your fear can influence the dog.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Unless the man you're being introduced to is threatening you in some way or you feel afraid of him, barking at a neutral stranger is fear, not protection.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

No reasonable threat = fear


----------



## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

GSDRaven - the link you posted is loaded with TONS of good information. It should be a sticky in the Aggression forum. Thank you.

There is so much info there I wish I had known when we got Woolf, we still would have, but would have been much more aware of what we would be working with.

Quanto, please spend the time reading it, it is well worth it.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Twyla - love getting that kind of feedback about what is useful information. Took you suggestion to heart and that thread is now a sticky.


----------



## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> Twyla - love getting that kind of feedback about what is useful information. Took you suggestion to heart and that thread is now a sticky.


Thanks!! It will give a good heads up on recognizing what is going on with pups, then the training that needs to take place quickly instead of being a goof like I was to begin with thinking that once Woolf allowed us to handle and touch him, he'd grow out of the rest of it. Hard crash course lesson that I keep learning.


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

QUANTO said:


> how do I decipher if Quanto's behavior (barking at men when intoduced) is a protective response or a sign of fear aggression? Thanks for your help!!!


Isn't this topic in another thread for the same OP?


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Emoore said:


> Unless the man you're being introduced to is threatening you in some way or you feel afraid of him, barking at a neutral stranger is fear, not protection.


It is not necessarilly fear - could simply be suspicious if the dog has never seen something that he/she is barking at - esp. if the dog quickly recovers when he realizes that it is cool. (Might depend on someones definition of fear of course)

The behaviorist that we have used with our guy says that sometimes something about somebody will just not sit right with a dog. The real question is what will the dog do when he feels that way? I.E. ok to watch carefully but not to bark and/or lunge.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

codmaster said:


> It is not necessarilly fear - could simply be suspicious if the dog has never seen something that he/she is barking at - esp. if the dog quickly recovers when he realizes that it is cool. (Might depend on someones definition of fear of course)


True, but unless the OP hangs around with a lot of weird men, every time the dog is introduced to a man sounds more like fear.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Emoore said:


> True, but unless the OP hangs around with a lot of weird men, every time the dog is introduced to a man sounds more like fear.


Did the OP message say that the dog barked at "every" man? How about boys, women and/or girls? I didn't see that - just saw "men".

Wonder what "introduced" means - maybe the OP could further explain what is actually going on? 

It is very hard to say anything about the dog's behavior without a little more detail, at least for me.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

codmaster said:


> Did the OP message say that the dog barked at "every" man? How about boys, women and/or girls? I didn't see that - just saw "men".
> 
> Wonder what "introduced" means - maybe the OP could further explain what is actually going on?
> 
> It is very hard to say anything about the dog's behavior without a little more detail, at least for me.


I think it said the dog barked when introduced to men. I took it to mean this was a re-occurring thing that happened when meeting men. Perhaps I should stop assuming though.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Emoore said:


> I think it said the dog barked when introduced to men. I took it to mean this was a re-occurring thing that happened when meeting men. Perhaps I should stop assuming though.


Unfortunately, have to assume if not given all of the facts!


----------



## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

On the same topic, ( I read this and the linked thread in one of the first posts last night and became curious) what about dogs that bark to "alert" when someone comes to the door? My labrador barked once or twice when people came/knocked/rang the doorbell. He did not rush them or freak out, but when he saw people coming, or if we were outside, he often would become alert and inside, he'd bark. Sometimes he'd bark outside, but mostly he'd just get up and go investigate them. If it was strangers coming down the driveway, he'd sit up and let out a controlled, quiet "Woof". I just took it (for 12 years) to mean he was alerting me to the presence of someone that didn't live here coming on to our property. He did not bark in cars or anything else. Nor did he bark when we were camping, although he'd get up and again, go investigate the person. 

Was this proper alerting or fear? What about my GSD pup? He's only barked twice in the house, both times he was sleeping and the sound of someone's new voice caused him to come out of the entryway and bark--upon which seeing me standing there he relaxed and became friendly. When the UPS and FedEx guy knocked on the door (he was sleeping right there) he just sat up and waited for me to open the door, no barking. I would like him to give an "alert" bark, just one or two, as I have a large house/property and it's handy, because for one, our doorbell sucks, lol.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

The fact that a dog does alert barking, IMHO, doesn't tell us anything about the dog. Shy, nervy, skittish dogs are often the best alert barkers. But dogs with good nerves often alert bark too. 

Barking at strangers and strange noises was one of the very first things that humans selectively bred for when they domesticated wolves, so it's something deep in the DNA of domesticated dogs. Most of them will do it to some extent, they just have different thresholds.


----------



## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

a dog protecting u or something will only do it for a reason like he wont let a stranger in his or her house if that dog was told or things the property belongs to them but this same dog will be good calm relaxed and ignore people without a care of the world outside the propery in crowds of people wont flinch the dog must have a total lack of fear of people period thats how u can tell if its protection but when someone pushes u or does something bad or treats u or the dog bad that same dog will turn crazy civil in a second its protection test it out with a trainer u will see in all other situations that dog will have a total lack of fear will be very calm and stable 

dogs that protect dong fear people it seems 

dogs are territorial so a dog not wanting a stranger in ur house or yard isnt a good sign u got to take ur dog out in public and see its reactions to strangers JMHO

also if u give ur dog an ok ur dog should stop and let ur friend or whoever it is hang out with you in your house if your dog is still flipping out sounds like fear as long as your dog has been taught OK some people dont teach their dog what is ok and what is not so the dog might never let a person in cause it doesnt know its suppose to. In that case the dog is not fearful well may not be just could be territoral and never taught to allow people in. Some call it territoral dominance.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

pets4life said:


> a dog protecting u or something will only do it for a reason like he wont let a stranger in his or her house if that dog was told or things the property belongs to them but this same dog will be good calm relaxed and ignore people without a care of the world outside the propery in crowds of people wont flinch the dog must have a total lack of fear of people period thats how u can tell if its protection but when someone pushes u or does something bad or treats u or the dog bad that same dog will turn crazy civil in a second its protection test it out with a trainer u will see in all other situations that dog will have a total lack of fear will be very calm and stable
> 
> dogs that protect dong fear people it seems
> 
> ...


 
Sounds like you might make some good points, but your text is very hard to read. Maybe you might try some punctuation and shorter sentences, maybe?


----------



## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

lol I just realized that I was at work and kinda typing without looking. By the time I wanted to go back and edit it was too late.


----------



## argo daisynina dvora (Oct 22, 2011)

I had a dog that we put down. He was aggressive out of fear. He was animal and human aggressive, out of control. To bite out of fear is a really big issue. My husband thought I was over excited till he was not able to pull our dog off anotherdog. He kicked, even put a water hose down his mouth but no luck. He went to get the gun and duchess let go. A dog in fear is a issue that needs to be handled ASAP. It was way over our knowledge and really sad. We were both sick that we let it get to the point it did.


----------



## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Emoore said:


> The fact that a dog does alert barking, IMHO, doesn't tell us anything about the dog. Shy, nervy, skittish dogs are often the best alert barkers. But dogs with good nerves often alert bark too.
> 
> Barking at strangers and strange noises was one of the very first things that humans selectively bred for when they domesticated wolves, so it's something deep in the DNA of domesticated dogs. Most of them will do it to some extent, they just have different thresholds.


I can honestly say my lab was AWESOME in every situation we put him in, in the 10+ years we had him. He was absolutely 100% trustworthy--with all the kids in the classes we taught (16-20 k-5th graders at a time, in a kids and animals safety course), the brand new baby kittens our neighbors brought over in the wagon, the baby ducks & turtles; heck, even the bird used to ride on his back and on his head, LOL. He'd go down to our 4th of July Festival in Spokane, 50,000 people in the park and never bat an eye. Guns didn't bother him...it makes me feel good to know that obviously he had super steady nerves of steel and in all likelyhood, the few times he ever had a strange reaction it was probably warrented. (One was a strange UPS guy who had a weird truck, not labeled UPS and told me if I didn't make my dog get off of my driveway he wouldn't deliver my package. I wasn't expecting one, and my lab was standing a good distance from him, but facing him, hair up, tail straight out horizontal, just staring at him. I told him my dog wasn't doing anything and I wasn't expecting a package. He mumbled some angry sounding stuff and drove off. I never did get any package later, or a notice from UPS saying they had one). 

I knew he was a good dog. :wub:


Rocket, you have some big paws to fill. :teary:


----------



## argo daisynina dvora (Oct 22, 2011)

A dog should only bite or be aggressive if told, out of fear is major issues


----------

