# Solid Black or Black/Tan?



## lauramichelle (Mar 11, 2009)

The litter I'm waiting on "should be" all solid black puppies. Sire and dam are both solid black. I'm not sure I want a solid black GSD though. I really like the more traditional look of them. My breeder is hoping to have another litter soon...she is breeding them this week. The dam of this litter will be the daughter of the dam of the litter expecting all blacks. That dam of that litter is silver sable, and sire will be black/tan. Temperment and health wise, both litters should be about the same. The solid black dam and silver sable dam act exactly alike (raised by the same person), and both sires are excellent family dogs.

My dilemma....do I wont a solid black sooner....or wait on the litter that will probably have black/tans and sables? I like all the colors, but I do lean more towards the black/tan or sable. I hate to wait too long because my dog just died, and my house is lonely!

I know its a personal preference....but which would you choose?


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

If you really want a bl/tan or sable then wait.Unless you plan on getting multiple dogs wait for the one you really want.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: laura929
> I know its a personal preference....but which would you choose?


If I were YOU I would wait for the second litter. (Since you don't want a solid black.) And with 2 solid black parents the pups WILL all be solid black. (Unless of course both parents also carry the gene for white, then there is a chance that there will be white puppies in the litter too.)

*I* would go with the first litter since I don't like black and tan, nor do I particularly like "silver" sables. (Though the pups won't necessarily be silver sables themselves.)


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## darga19 (Mar 4, 2009)

I agree...wait for what you REALLY want. Don't settle. Not that the black look won't grow on you, but you'll be living with that pup for 10+ years...might as well have it be the EXACT one you picture in your head. It sounds like you should hold out...be strong!

If you don't really want an all black...DON'T go visit the litter either! You'll probably end up leaving with one of them!









Personally like some color in mine...so I'd go with the next litter.


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## lauramichelle (Mar 11, 2009)

Its really hard for me to decide. I dont dislike the solid black. I'm actually more used to seeing the solid black. Its my mother-in-law that breeds them (reason why I get a free puppy) and I've gotten to know her solid black dam very well. So since that's mostly what I've seen, I've come to think of GSDs as black. I wouldnt be unhappy with either. I'm more of a pick the dog for its personality not its looks kind of person.

I guess I'll just wait and see. Its not for certain the sable dam will even have puppies. She tried to breed her at her last heat, but missed it. She said she's harder to know when she's ready than her other dam.


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## Nikkoli110 (Sep 9, 2008)

If you really want a blk&tan, wait. But I do have to say, now that we have a solid black, they are absolutely stunning. We get asked constantly "Is that a lab? Whats up with your lab's ears?" And as a pup "Is that a lab pup? A Shikipee? (sp?)" and of course the "German Shepherds don't come in all black. or I never knew German Shepherds come in all black. Geez he's rare, how much did you pay for him?" LOL


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## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

Personally, I would choose a puppy from the black litter, but I also like blacks. I wouldn't pick a pup from the silver sable/ b&t litter simply because I am not a fan of washed out colors (silver sable is considered washed out sable, although I will admit can be very beautiful, richer colors are preferred in standard.) Washed out colors are considered a fault if they are faded enough, although other characteristics take priority over color such as temperament, structure, and health. Especially if temperament and health are expected to be the same for both litters... I would go for the black puppy litter because black is a color in standard. 

Also, the silver sable must carry B&T for any of the puppies from her litter to be B&T, because sable is dominant. If the dam doesn't carry B&T all of the puppies will be sable (unless they both carry black, or white.) Do you know the colors of the parents of the silver sable, if you do, you can get a better idea of what to expect color wise of her litter. I am more of a fan of B&T and sables also, so if she threw some richly colored puppies I would like them more, but you won't know until after the black puppies are all gone...


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

I'd wait
Solid blacks are gorgeous but I am partial to Black and tans


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## Northof60 (Feb 15, 2009)

I would wait and get what you really want.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Jkim
> 
> Also, the silver sable must carry B&T for any of the puppies from her litter to be B&T, because sable is dominant. If the dam doesn't carry B&T all of the puppies will be sable (unless they both carry black, or white.) Do you know the colors of the parents of the silver sable,...


 The dam doesn't have top carry B&T to get B&T pups. The OP posted that the black female (the dam of litter 1) is also the dam of the sable female. So that means that the sable female carries the black gene from her. If the sable gives a puppy her black gene, and it gets a B&T from the sire, it will be B&T. Depending on the genes the B&T male carries, the 2nd litter could also have black puppies.


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## lauramichelle (Mar 11, 2009)

Just to clarify.....

solid black dam X black/tan sire = solid black dam

Solid Black dam X black/tan sire = silver sable dam (she's a very dark sable...almost looks black/tan until you look at the individual hairs)

solid black dam X solid black sire (he's out of a panda shepherd X blue/tan) = prospective litter of black puppies

silver sable dam X black/tan sire = prospective litter of ??? 

Any idea of colors for the 2nd litter?


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## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSD
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Jkim
> ...


I didn't think of that, but yes, black is recessive to B&T so if the pup inherits the black gene from the mother and the B&T gene from the father, then the puppy would be B&T, not sable =) thanks for pointing that out.

From my understanding:

Black + Black/Tan = B&T puppies (B&T is dominant to black... but if the B&T carries black also, then there can be both B&T and black puppies... AND if they both carry white, blue, or liver, then there can be some of those also.)

Black + Black = Black puppies (Unless they carry white, blue, liver also... I think panda shepherd is a white variation...)

Sable + Black/Tan = Sable puppies (Unless the sable carries B&T or black, then the puppies will be B&T... if they both carry black, white, blue, then there can be some of those in the litter also...)

To get a sable dog, you need at least one of the parents to be sable because if neither of the parents are sable, it means neither of them carry sable as it is a dominant color...

She can be a 'dark sable' but if she is called a 'silver sable' that means that her tan pigment is actually washed out, more like a cream than a red... I don't know that silver sable refers to the black portion...

Anyone can feel free to correct me on this =)

Anyways... I know there is a thread on here somewhere that explains all of the genetics... hopefully someone can find it.

Edit: Found it =)
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=102561&page=1#Post102561


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

yes

yes

NO. sable + black/tan = sable if sable dog only carries sable genes. IF sable dog carries 2nd color e.g. sable black/tan recessive pups and bread to the black/tan listed here, pups would be sable AND black/tan not just black/tan

Yes

Yes









In scenario above. My retired female Oxana only carried Sable. I bred her to a solid black male, only got sables. Bred her to a sable that was bl/tan recessive, only sables. I kept her daughter Diesel from the sable/black breeding. My male Hardy is a bicolor/black recessive SO I can get sables, bicolors and blacks (never had a black/tan or even blanket black from this pairing).


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

A good dog is never a bad color (well, within reason







). I would go with the pup that best fits you and worry about color last.


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