# Spaying Indra



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I am still debating whether or not I should spay Indra. I just don't know if I should or shouldn't. It would make life much easier for me if I simply did it, however I could never show her which I intended to do. 

But maybe I should have just done and over with it. She's an awesome working dog and do I really have to breed her? Just because somebody else wants me to? 

What would you do in my position?


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I dunno much about your situation but I totally regret spaying my last dog... And so did her breeder. I even cancelled the appointment twice because I just couldn't do it... Then I forced myself to because the vet said it was "best"


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you made an agreement to breed her with whomever you acquired her from, then, unless there is a reason you should not, such as a disqualifying conformation fault or temperament fault, then you have an obligation to do so. 

Otherwise, it is completely up to you. 

The one annoying thing about having intact bitches, is that it interferes with training and trialing in AKC.  

I think that spaying for convenience is fine, but I would prefer people wait until they have reached their full size, 18 months for females minimum. But that is certainly a matter of opinion.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Jax's Mom said:


> I dunno much about your situation but I totally regret spaying my last dog... And so did her breeder. I even cancelled the appointment twice because I just couldn't do it... Then I forced myself to because the vet said it was "best"


I regreted it with Zenzy but that was because of a medical condition. She would have died if we did not do it and she was never the same dog. That is the only reason why I wouldn't do it. 

However, with two intact males in the house, it ought to be interesting. I really hope we move before she is completely going into heat because I can either put her outside, or the two males outside, since I plan to put an outdoor kennel into the garage.


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I think that you should make the decision that you feel best with-this is not a decision that I would ask other people on this board to make for me


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Nah, they are not supposed to make it for me. I just want to see what other people think. The decision will be mine, if I don't spay her now, I can always spay her later but if I do spay her, I can't reverse that. So it's a final decision and I'd like to see peoples opinion on that and if they ever regretted spaying their dog, just like Jax's Mom already said. 

I am also curious as of why they regretted it.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I neutered my boy, I dont regret it.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

If you intended to show her, then I'd wait until I reached that goal. If (for what ever reason) things have changed and you are no longer going to show her, then no harm no foul, I'd get her spayed.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Mrs.K said:


> do I really have to breed her?


No dog HAS to be bred. Unless there is some sort of contractual obligation to another party, the decision is entirely yours. What other people want doesn't matter.

Unless absolutely sure that she is breed worthy, and absolutely sure that YOU want to be a breeder and take on all that entails, spay her.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> No dog HAS to be bred. Unless there is some sort of contractual obligation to another party, the decision is entirely yours. What other people want doesn't matter.
> 
> Unless absolutely sure that she is breed worthy, and absolutely sure that YOU want to be a breeder and take on all that entails, spay her.


:thumbup: I like this comment


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Mrs.K said:


> I'd like to see peoples opinion on that and if they ever regretted spaying their dog, just like Jax's Mom already said.


We have spayed every bitch we didn't intend to breed, and every bitch we did breed once retired from breeding. Never regretted it at all. On males, I'd be inclined to leave them intact unless there was a compelling reason to neuter, whether bred or not. But with females there are too many reasons to spay; reduced health risk for the female, no smelly mess, no horney boys, no being treated like a leper at training and trials and in some cases prohibited from trialing altogether.


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

People with males should just get over it-there is no real reason to prohibit a female in heat from trialing-train the male-seems like a double standard to me-if you think you are going to regret it don't do it-


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

You can seek the opinions of people who know your dog in real life as to whether she is breed worthy


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> I'd like to see peoples opinion on that and if they ever regretted spaying their dog, just like Jax's Mom already said.
> 
> I am also curious as of why they regretted it.


She was the most perfect dog I've ever met. Conformed perfectly. Had the most beautiful temperament. Truly intelligent. The epitome of health, never sick a day in her life. She should have been bred. The worst part is that she died of hemangiosarcoma, which appears more frequently in spayed dogs. I'll never be certain if it was because I had her spayed. 
My current female is spayed, no regrets there, she's a great dog but she's mixed, so even if I did breed her, who knows what I'd get?


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mrs. K comes from a family of German working line breeders, I think her assessment is probably sufficient in that, but not everyone really wants to be a breeder. If this pup is one of her folks pups and they let her have it with the idea of it becoming a foundation bitch, it could be more than just an ordinary, should I spay her type deal. 

If you do not feel you want to be a breeder, than you should not breed regardless to what your parents are thinking. But you are right, you cannot take back a spay. So, do not make this decision when you hare in an charged emotional state, sleep on the decision -- maybe for a week or two, and maybe talk it over with the people who want you to breed her.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

@Chris: I agree, if I do not want to breed her, I'll get her spayed. 

She's definitely breed worthy, however what I am debating with is the system that was indoctrinated into me for all my life. BH, AD, SchH1 etc... and if a dog doesn't have that, you can't breed it. 

All she'd have is the SAR certification and the RH and possibly a show and some obedience trials but I just don't have time to put a Schutzhund Title on her. Especially since the Club is so far away and our training hours conflict with the Schutzhund training hours. 

Would you breed one of your males to a SAR certified dogs?


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

selzer said:


> Mrs. K comes from a family of German working line breeders, I think her assessment is probably sufficient in that, but not everyone really wants to be a breeder. If this pup is one of her folks pups and they let her have it with the idea of it becoming a foundation bitch, it could be more than just an ordinary, should I spay her type deal.
> 
> If you do not feel you want to be a breeder, than you should not breed regardless to what your parents are thinking. But you are right, you cannot take back a spay. So, do not make this decision when you hare in an charged emotional state, sleep on the decision -- maybe for a week or two, and maybe talk it over with the people who want you to breed her.


She doesn't come from my folks, she's from the Sattelberg Kennel. My father jokes that she ain't real, since she's Austrian. However, her breeder trains with Juergen Ritzi in Tengen, Germany.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Mrs.K;2126724
Would you breed one of your males to a SAR certified dogs?[/QUOTE said:


> I have to ask this question...what if she becomes a wonderful SAR dog. Noteable, exceptional. Wouldn't you want to continue those lines for future generations even it it's just in the SAR field?


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Real working certifications, such as SAR, most certainly qualify in lieu of SchH titles. Though it would be important to ensure that this is a legitimate and comprehensive certification that was well earned. Just as with titles, not all are. Working certs can be even more suspect than titles, due to a lack of standardization of what is tested and what is required to pass. And regardless of what certs or titles a dog has, those alone don't make it breed worthy. They provide venues through which to test the dog, but it's in that testing and observation, not just oneself but objective qualified parties, that really matters. Far moreso than the piece of paper.

Then the other thing to consider with real work endeavors is if a dog is truly an above par and operational SAR dog, and one has committed to that in the sense of being available and willing to be called out when needed, should the dog be taken out of action for months to carry, whelp and raise a litter? Not saying it should or shouldn't, but at the same time when one is committing to something like SAR, there is a higher degree of responsibility involved than someone doing performance titles. After all having to miss a performance trial because the bitch is busy elsewhere is hardly life or death, whereas many real work scenarios can be. So IMO this is something that should be weighed into the equation of anyone serious about SAR and breeding.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mrs.K said:


> @Chris: I agree, if I do not want to breed her, I'll get her spayed.
> 
> She's definitely breed worthy, however what I am debating with is the system that was indoctrinated into me for all my life. BH, AD, SchH1 etc... and if a dog doesn't have that, you can't breed it.
> 
> ...


Ya know, I do not think it matters what others think about this. What matters is what YOU think about it. If you have a model for what constitutes sufficient for breeding, and your dog meets your model, than she is breed worthy in your opinion. But are you changing the model to suit the dog or the circumstances? You have to answer the question. If there is a reason this dog is not suited to Schutzhund training, then you need to answer that. If she is, but you would rather do SAR with her you have to decide if that is sufficient.

This is an ignorant question, but is SAR something that people often do with their dogs if they fail some aspect of schutzhund, if they are not willing to do the protection phase say? 

It sounds like rigorous training that take into aspects of more than one GSD instinctive traits, and something that would require a dog of excellent character and temperament. 
Why is it that YOU do not feel it is sufficient.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

selzer said:


> Ya know, I do not think it matters what others think about this. What matters is what YOU think about it. If you have a model for what constitutes sufficient for breeding, and your dog meets your model, than she is breed worthy in your opinion. But are you changing the model to suit the dog or the circumstances? You have to answer the question. If there is a reason this dog is not suited to Schutzhund training, then you need to answer that. If she is, but you would rather do SAR with her you have to decide if that is sufficient.
> 
> This is an ignorant question, but is SAR something that people often do with their dogs if they fail some aspect of schutzhund, if they are not willing to do the protection phase say?
> 
> ...


She's definitely suited for Schutzhund and you are right, SAR requires top notch dogs of excellent character, temperament, top hunting & preydrive and stable nerves. The only reason I think it's not sufficient is because they would not get SV papers and that is a thought I'd have to get used to. We'd be breeding outside the SV system and that is something I am not sure I am completely comfortable with..
However, I guess I can wait a little longer before I make that decision.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> Real working certifications, such as SAR, most certainly qualify in lieu of SchH titles. Though it would be important to ensure that this is a legitimate and comprehensive certification that was well earned. Just as with titles, not all are. Working certs can be even more suspect than titles, due to a lack of standardization of what is tested and what is required to pass. And regardless of what certs or titles a dog has, those alone don't make it breed worthy. They provide venues through which to test the dog, but it's in that testing and observation, not just oneself but objective qualified parties, that really matters. Far moreso than the piece of paper.
> 
> Then the other thing to consider with real work endeavors is if a dog is truly an above par and operational SAR dog, and one has committed to that in the sense of being available and willing to be called out when needed, should the dog be taken out of action for months to carry, whelp and raise a litter? Not saying it should or shouldn't, but at the same time when one is committing to something like SAR, there is a higher degree of responsibility involved than someone doing performance titles. After all having to miss a performance trial because the bitch is busy elsewhere is hardly life or death, whereas many real work scenarios can be. So IMO this is something that should be weighed into the equation of anyone serious about SAR and breeding.


Thanks!


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Chris Wild said:


> Real working certifications, such as SAR, most certainly qualify in lieu of SchH titles. Though it would be important to ensure that this is a legitimate and comprehensive certification that was well earned. Just as with titles, not all are. Working certs can be even more suspect than titles, due to a lack of standardization of what is tested and what is required to pass. And regardless of what certs or titles a dog has, those alone don't make it breed worthy. They provide venues through which to test the dog, but it's in that testing and observation, not just oneself but objective qualified parties, that really matters. Far moreso than the piece of paper.
> 
> Then the other thing to consider with real work endeavors is if a dog is truly an above par and operational SAR dog, and one has committed to that in the sense of being available and willing to be called out when needed, should the dog be taken out of action for months to carry, whelp and raise a litter? Not saying it should or shouldn't, but at the same time when one is committing to something like SAR, there is a higher degree of responsibility involved than someone doing performance titles. After all having to miss a performance trial because the bitch is busy elsewhere is hardly life or death, whereas many real work scenarios can be. So IMO this is something that should be weighed into the equation of anyone serious about SAR and breeding.


That is exactly what I am thinking too.
She would be certified via the NY State Federation plus I want to put the IRO RH title on her as well. So she'd have a little more on top of that. We have to undergo quite a process before she'd be completely operational and I most certainly would not like to have it handed. 

If I do breed her it would be a couple of years down the road when she's around 5 years old. That way she has worked for a couple of years and I have another dog in the line that can take over her job. I will definitely not use her as a "birthing-machine" and only have one, maybe two litters, if I feel like it and than have her spayed. 

But, on the other hand, I know where to get dogs, just like her. If I want her line, I can simply go back to her breeder and get another dog imported. And even if she is the best dog on the team, that doesn't say that she'll pass all her traits on...


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Right, but even schutzhund III dogs, or k-9s will pass all their traits on to every puppy.

Ok, so this is about registering the pups with the SV. I can understand that. 

Another ignorant question: Are SAR and Schutzhund diametrically opposed. I mean, I think you should travel to a trial and put a BH on her. Maybe she does not get the highest score in every test, but she should have sufficient temperament without training at a schutzhund facility to manage a pass, and my guess is a solid pass, since you know what is expected.

But, if you are training a dog for search and rescue, do you want to not train them to bark and hold like they would in schutzhund? I am thinking an elderly old woman or a small child might be totally freaked out by that, and maybe that is why you do not want to go for a schH1? (Actually young men tend to be more freaked out by GSDs than anyone else, but whatever.)

What about a herding title. Can't you breed in the German system with a herding title?


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

selzer said:


> Right, but even schutzhund III dogs, or k-9s will pass all their traits on to every puppy.
> 
> Ok, so this is about registering the pups with the SV. I can understand that.
> 
> Another ignorant question: Are SAR and Schutzhund diametrically opposed. I mean, I think you should travel to a trial and put a BH on her. Maybe she does not get the highest score in every test, but she should have sufficient temperament without training at a schutzhund facility to manage a pass, and my guess is a solid pass, since you know what is expected.


Indra shouldn't have any problem to work anywhere. We work at different places all the time, she knows traveling and they have to have rock solid nerves for that kind of work. I'd say even stronger nerves than your typical Schutzhund dog. I know a lot of Schutzhund dogs that only know their kennel, the way from the kennel to the trailer and the way from the trailer to the trial field and that's it but a SAR dog needs to be stable in every kind of situation which I worked on back in Germany. 



> But, if you are training a dog for search and rescue, do you want to not train them to bark and hold like they would in schutzhund? I am thinking an elderly old woman or a small child might be totally freaked out by that, and maybe that is why you do not want to go for a schH1? (Actually young men tend to be more freaked out by GSDs than anyone else, but whatever.)
> 
> What about a herding title. Can't you breed in the German system with a herding title?


Schutzhund should not be a problem whatsoever. She is worked in Schutzhund and the bark and hold has nothing to do with the indication. I know a lot of SchH3 dogs that are SAR dogs. As a matter of the fact, Dylan vom Randegger Schloss is also a RH(SAR) Dog. 

It doesn't matter where I turn, as of right now, I can only concentrate on one thing and that is SAR, especially since I, myself, have to undergo a lot of training as well. It's not only the dog that needs to be certified... it's me too and it doesn't just happen overnight. 
Ulf Kintzel is within a five hour range, Albany is four hours away... Debbie Zappia is two hours away and very expensive... 

I have to buy the gear, pay for the SAR Seminars, we only have one car at the moment and honestly, I just can't do it timewise and the financial part plays a role as well. 

If I had a club where I can do Schutzhund and RH the same time, just like in Germany, it'd be no question that I'd do both. But here, with those distances... nobody can expect me to drive four hours AFTER SAR training to do SchH training for maybe one or two hours and than drive four hours home. 

I am already driving almost two hours to SAR training and if I had to drive to Albany on top of that... I'd go crazy and broke.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Money is always a toughy. I am just trying to match your requirements. 

So all this training has to be done on one day a week? I mean, you cannot travel for schutzhund training on Saturday, and Do SAR training three nights a week? See -- I have no idea about training or class times and availablility. 

I have a heck of a time finding basic obedience training within 45 minute drives and within my schedule. There is NOTHING out here in the way of Schutzhund, herding in PA but that I would have to travel to. And SAR several hours a way too. 

One of the people in our club does SAR. But club meetings are 2 hours west of me. And in her program, she talked about the expenses incurred, and the injuries to the dogs.


----------



## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

None of my 3 girls was ever going to be bred; all are excellent working dogs with some great breed traits, but all have their flaws as well. I had the mix and the sheltie spayed young (before thier first heat), and I spayed Echo at 20 months. Never once regretted it. No heat cycle mess, no mood changes and interruptions to our training and trialing, no guarding the yard from enterprising male "tourists", and eliminates the risk of uterine infections and the many other medical complications that can occur with intact females. I'm very glad there are good, responsible breeders out there to better the breeds; I'm also very glad not to be one of them.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

selzer said:


> This is an ignorant question, but is SAR something that people often do with their dogs if they fail some aspect of schutzhund, if they are not willing to do the protection phase say?
> .


No. Most people who stick with it for SAR don't have time to do shutzhund and SAR is much more encompassing than the dog who is simply one of many tools, to be used at the right time and place. Just like helicopters, reverse 911, people going door to door, mantrackers.......It is NOT about the dog.

Honestly we see incredibly FEW dog sport people because when the realize it could compete with their trials and training, let alone their JOBS [says Nancy who is sucking up the nerve to tell her boss she took off a third time in 2 weeks for a search...]

SAR Certs are varied but there are national ones but they do not test the protective characteristics of the breed, then dogsport does not test for search ability either as shutzhund sport tracking is only an obedience excercise...

FWIW, 57% of FEMA dogs are labs. There are as many Goldens and Border Colllies on FEMA teams as GSDs so many don't even know about shutzhund.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

My Danger was intended to be a Schutzhund dog - awesome dog in bitework...the co-owners first love was SAR and unfortunately for my plans, the certifying/trainers/groups she was affiliated with insisted that the dog could not work in SAR adn still do bitework/schutzhund. He did the RH with a 99 in the search component and is certified wilderness, cadaver ??? other??? IPWDA certs...I dont remember all the certs he has...

My problem with a breedworthy dog in SAR is that the people who actually do it cannot compromise their team by sporadic availability of the dog - you can't throw an in heat bitch out loose to search...and you can't breed and take her out of commission for 3-4 months either and be a viable useful member of an active team. However, so many people train and in their dogs whole lives NEVER get called out on a search...in many areas, LE does NOT want civilians out there, in some areas, civilian SAR teams are utilitized. 

Only you know what your team expects, and can decide whether spaying is the best action for you and Indra.

Lee


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

This may be a stupid question, but is there a type of birth control that could be used for dogs for this type of situation?


----------



## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Mrs. K, I have an intact male and intact female....heats are temporary and not that bad honestly. We live in a three bedroom town home with NO kennel so we rotate using a double gate system leaving one dog in the kitchen and the other free to roam the house switching mid day and at night. Zoe is crated behind the double gates when we leave and the lab crated in my bedroom upstairs with my door closed to prevent escape. 

She is going to be 18 months in 2 days so I had scheduled her spay appointment for the 20th and guess who went into heat this morning? ZOE!!! So this really is her last heat she'll be spayed in the beginning of June. The only reason I am doing it is because her temperament is terrible and an oops litter from her as sure as I am I can prevent it would be devastating. I know I NEVER want to be a breeder and she will never be breed worthy so for me it just simplifies life a little. However, if your having doubts don't do it. Like you said you can't take it back and Indra is still young anyway


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

How OLD is Indra? Most the SAR folks I know are waiting until even females are about two to spay and many leave the males alone.

We have worked a search with an in heat female working an adjacent sector but it was a very controlled search situation. The males have to learn to get over it and they do.

-----------

Actually our team as most of the other teams in our state will not take a dog with bitework or a dog using bark and hold. Call it what you may but all of our teams have retired LE, Schutzhund people, etc and it is not ignorance but out of concern that any improper schtuzhund training is going to create more risk. And the dog is having to make a decision with the handler out of sight as to what to do with this fellow who just got scared and took of running.

And, yes, I do know a former SAR handler in NC whose stomach was ripped open by a sport dog during a SAR excercise and there was a case in Germany where a schutzhund dog bit a childs head during a real search. I honestly don't know of any other bite cases in SAR.


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

But didn't Grim have bitework on him before you got him?

If a SchH dog is biting a CHILD'S head during a search, I don't care if the dog has had SchH on it or not--it's seriously unstable and should never have been in SAR in the first place. A child should never pose a risk to a dog, no matter how many times they've bitten a decoy or helper.

The bitework opinion varies by state and even team. Most teams in my immediate area have no problem with dogs having SchH trainign or even a title on them.

Sandra, if you aren't feeling breeding Indra, for whatever reason, your gut is telling you something. Whatever that something is. Your teammates can easily go somewhere else to find another dog. They don't NEED a dog from Indra, even if they are trying to convince you otherwise. There are plenty of good dogs from good breeders all over the US. Yes, upstate NY is sorely lacking in good WL GSD breeders. But there are plenty of fabulous ones scattered throughout the NE. They just need to get out of the North Country to do so.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Nancy, I still don't see a problem with the Schutzhund and SAR. Two known cases out of how many Schutzhund/SAR dogs? Plus, I'd say it always depends how Schutzhund is done. I admit, there are some dogs out there that should never do SAR but those dogs can't even be handled by their own handlers but generalizing and saying a Schutzhund can't do SAR because he might hunt a five year old child down (one of my former team members said that) is as wrong as to say that a Schutzhund dog can't be a family dog because he's done bitework. 

I do agree, with some of the dogs I've seen over here, I'd be concerned as well because they would go after the person instead of the sleeve but Indra has never been worked in defense, nor has she been doing it long enough. She went to a Greg Doud workshop twice, in all the time we are here and that's it. 

My team would not have any issues of me doing Schutzhund but it's just not going to happen time wise and financially...ugh..nope, can't afford Schutzhund on top of SAR. SAR is expensive enough as it is. 


By the way, we have 6 Shepherds and one Lab on the team.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

No - just responding to the other post re shutzhund and bark and hold.

Grim had some bitework [even in Defense] before I got him, and we discussed as a team, but he was specifically single purpose cadaver and would never be in the situation of finding a victim and possibly having them run. And, yes, for this dog his thresholds are very high.

No the schutzhund v SAR agrument varies state to state, team to team and the ONLY thing that irritates me is when people say "you just don't understand or you would allow it" - but- I think you are living the other side of the problem - time and money. And, yes, it does depend on HOW schutzhund is done and the dogs involved.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> But didn't Grim have bitework on him before you got him?
> 
> If a SchH dog is biting a CHILD'S head during a search, I don't care if the dog has had SchH on it or not--it's seriously unstable and should never have been in SAR in the first place. A child should never pose a risk to a dog, no matter how many times they've bitten a decoy or helper.
> 
> ...




It's definitely not because of Indra. It is mainly because of the puppies. There are so many horror stories on here, so many dogs that are sitting in shelters on the death row and do I really want to contribute that? 
There are so many breeders out there, already claiming to try to better the breed. She's most definitely a dog who could contribute to the gene pool and yeah, I have a couple of people who would really like to see puppies out of her and Yukon and I know it would be a great match. 

But there is so much involved. Plus seeing all those posts and horror stories about shelter dogs on facebook and here clearly doesn't help. I have a conscience and I don't think I could live with it if I knew that a dog I produced would be abused, neglected or end up in a shelter and get killed. 

Yukon was one of those dogs. :help:

If anyone wants a dog, I can always help them find one but most people would not want to pay that kind of money on a good dog. I always look at it as an investment. They better the breeder, they more you know what you might get. Sure there are always things you don't know but I'd invest the money into a good breeder as long as it's a fair price and for SAR Work, I would never get a puppy again. I'd buy a one year old healthy dog. 

And I said that to the team member in question as well.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Yes the stats are FEMA

We have 7GSDs (probably 9 by next year-maybe 10 if the last slot gets filled by a new prospect), 1Golden,2Shilohs,1 GSD/Lab,1 lab, 1Feist,&1Cur 

Two of our members actively do schutzhund with other dogs, one of those has done ASR.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I will never be a breeder There are just to many dogs in shelters, good dogs from breeders, and just a general over population of NICE dogs. 

At this point, I just think it's easier to go and find what one is looking for vs going thru the expense, heartache etc of breeding. I prefer to leave it to someone else.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Well anyway - back to AGE to Spay - that is what I would consider the question.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

She is 15 months old now. I don't think that is too young to have her spayed and once we are in the new house we definitely won't have trouble to keep them separated during the heat cycle. 

As for "the males have to suck it up" during a search. I totally agree. I can't believe how people won't even try to work around bitches in heat.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Agree, In the real world there are bitches in heat and if you don't know how your dog behaves.....I have even told people when their girl is going into season because I know his behavior - good to know when you see it in the field. LICKS the pee, eyes, glaze, drools followed by "leave it" on my part and he snaps out of it.

Same thing with marking. I correct marking during searching. A good dog is not going to shut down for being put back on task and learns what is and is not ok.

Well, I know its a tough decision. If you make it, don't look back.


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Mrs.K said:


> [/B]
> 
> It's definitely not because of Indra.


That being completely besides the point, IMO. I just don't think you should breed her, no matter how exceptional she is, unless your heart is 175% into it. You're the one taking the risk, doing all the work, and putting your blood, sweat, and tears into it. No one else. It's not like having a stud and farming sperm out. You and you alone take all the responsibility of those puppies on your shoulders.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> That being completely besides the point, IMO. I just don't think you should breed her, no matter how exceptional she is, unless your heart is 175% into it. You're the one taking the risk, doing all the work, and putting your blood, sweat, and tears into it. No one else. It's not like having a stud and farming sperm out. You and you alone take all the responsibility of those puppies on your shoulders.


Very true and to the point. If anything goes wrong, I doubt anyone would offer to pay for the cost and stay up during day&night caring for the pups. 

Right now, my heart is not into it. Maybe it'll change with the years... but right now, she's too young to have a litter anyways.


----------

