# Frustration...



## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

So Schatzi is about 5 months now, and I’m posting to address some frustration with her. She is normally in tune, ready to train. I’ve been trying to wean the food slowly while training and exchange for other rewards. Ex..ball, tug, etc. she had been doing great. We took yesterday off. No training at all. I’ve been busy, work 12 hours every day just about and usually train her when I get off (before any comments, no, she is not kenneled for 12 hours, usually only about 4-6 until my girlfriend is off). Today we met with our trainer/breeder, very reputable with gsd in area. She did not want to work obedience. Her focus was in everything but me, which is new and weird. Usually the hot dogs and cheese cubes are all she needs to know That I’m #1. Not today..she couldn’t care less. So, we did some pillow work and tracking. Then I went home. She did her normal thing. Was out for a little. I then kenneled her about an hour before we train, which I always do. No prob. I took her out back, which is where we train and it was the same sort of thing. As if she was saying forget obedience, not today. I don’t want to do it. Specifically with the plots
Command. By this point I was frustrated. I do not understand why she can sitz without a lure but refuses to plotz. There is no way she has not made the correlation by now, at least that’s what was in my head. Today, she wouldn’t even go down with the lure. I began forcing her into a plotz with her collar. Correct...prob not..but at this point in I was very annoyed. 2 weeks ago, we were working on a foos, now she cannot even down. Much less foos. It’s
Like a joke at this point. Is it time to change “training treats”, is she rebelling? Time to go back to 2 sessions a day and get up at 4am again? What’s the deal with her at this point? High value treat recommendations? Any help is greatly appreciated. It’s like she’s regressing and for the life of me, I cannot understand why. I look forward to training her every day when I get home, and she used to love it too. However, i feel I’m beginning not to. Not seeing results after hard work is frustrating. 

Thanks for the responses and allowing me the opportunity to vent ahead of time lol 


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Did not mean to post this in aggression, sorry 


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

You are saying this is a 5 month old pup correct?


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> You are saying this is a 5 month old pup correct?




Yes, yes. I know. Expecting too much


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Don't be too frustrated, she's a puppy still! I'm not saying a puppy that age can't mind well, but they do get distracted easily! Think in terms of motivation. She willingly worked for treats, so go back to treats! Two things you don't want to do is (a) set her up to fail by giving her too many distraction too quickly, and (b) ever issue a command when you can see that she's unlikely to comply or you don't have the ability to enforce the command.

My pup, at about that same age, started blowing off recall. She'd been perfect on and off leash up to that point. But at 5 months she started looking right at me and deciding she wanted to do something else more. I put a stop to that using a drag line. The idea is that you wait until they are playing or otherwise distracted and call her. Once in a normal tone, then again if she doesn't do it right away in a more forceful tone. Give her just a few seconds to comply, if she doesn't you walk over calmly and without a word drag her to where you were when you called her and throw a party, lavishly praising, then release her and do it again in a few minutes. 

My dog hated baths, and so didn't want to come near the bathroom where she'd just gotten a bath. But she heard a noise and I said let's go see. She started up, realized we were headed toward that nasty tub LOL, so she turned around. I called her and she didn't come, so I did as I described above right to a spot near the bathroom door. She was visibly relieved when we didn't go in the bathroom. Anyway, 5 minutes later I called her again, and she wouldn't come, same location. Drug her up there again, threw a party, then together we investigated all the bedrooms for the source of the noise. She thought that was great fun, and it worked! She's never blown a recall since...except for rabbits, rabbits continue to challenge her ability to control herself, we're still working on it!

But back on your issue, it sounds to me like you'll likely get back on track by stepping back a little with treats and few distractions. Hope that helps!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Nscullin said:


> Did not mean to post this in aggression, sorry


Well, it is sort of passive aggressive LOL!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

She's hopeless. Send her to me. I'll take care of her.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You have over-worked this baby to the point that she doesn't want to work for you. You are forcing her into a down, and yes, you are expecting way to much for her age. Heels and downs and stays and sits -- you can start this crap now, sure. One day a week, for 30-40 minutes tops. spend the rest of the time playing with her, making games with her, praising her. 

If you are frustrated with a baby, you are over the top. You need to stop and let her regroup. A couple of weeks at least. The offer stands. I will take the baby off your hands if you want.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

selzer said:


> You have over-worked this baby to the point that she doesn't want to work for you. You are forcing her into a down, and yes, you are expecting way to much for her age. Heels and downs and stays and sits -- you can start this crap now, sure. One day a week, for 30-40 minutes tops. spend the rest of the time playing with her, making games with her, praising her.
> 
> If you are frustrated with a baby, you are over the top. You need to stop and let her regroup. A couple of weeks at least. The offer stands. I will take the baby off your hands if you want.




You’re out of line. I never work my dog for 30-40mins at a time for 5 months. Find another thread to troll please. You do what you want with your dog, no you can not have mine. Go buy a puppy if you want one. My training sessions are 10-15mins tops. 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nscullin said:


> You’re out of line. I never work my dog for 30-40mins at a time for 5 months. Find another thread to troll please. You do what you want with your dog, no you can not have mine. Go buy a puppy if you want one. My training sessions are 10-15mins tops.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Talk about trolling. You are talking about being frustrated because your five month old puppy is not perfect on its stays and downs and sits and heels and so frustrated that you are forcing her into downs. 

Every one knows that you don't train when you are frustrated! 

You can ruin that bitch. She's a puppy. Take care. 

Talking about getting up at 4am to do more training, when she either had an off day or she is overwhelmed by what you are doing. If you don't back up and adjust you will ruin her. 

I have plenty of dogs. I don't need another. But I'd take this one in a heartbeat because the way you describe it, you are hurting her.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

selzer said:


> Talk about trolling. You are talking about being frustrated because your five month old puppy is not perfect on its stays and downs and sits and heels and so frustrated that you are forcing her into downs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am by no means hurting my dog. She doesn’t need weeks for a step back. She is just fine. I’m a human. I’m allowed to be frustrated. PERSONAL REMARK REMOVED BY MODERATOR I would never hurt my dog. 


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Nscullin said:


> I am by no means hurting my dog. She doesn’t need weeks for a step back. She is just fine. I’m a human. I’m allowed to be frustrated. Maybe you don’t experience it [PERSONAL CONTENT REMOVED]. I would never hurt my dog.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Wow, you came here new to the forum, asking for advice. Someone with years of experience offered her thoughts and you had to go and drag in off topic subjects. Pretty rude, in my opinion.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nscullin said:


> I am by no means hurting my dog. She doesn’t need weeks for a step back. She is just fine. I’m a human. I’m allowed to be frustrated. Maybe you don’t experience it [PERSONAL REMARKS REMOVED]. I would never hurt my dog.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't take anti-depressants. Or anything for mental/emotional pain. If you think it embarrasses me to have suffered from grief from the past and the present, it doesn't. And what you just said just shows that you have issues worse than mine. 

Good luck. Don't take your frustration out on your puppy.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Nscullin said:


> Yes, yes. I know. Expecting too much
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You got it. Lol. But you know that, just as you know that forcing her down was an over step on your part. This forum is a great place to vent. 
She's still a baby, chill out and enjoy. I don't really start training until six months at least. She is communicating that she needs a break.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> You got it. Lol. But you know that, just as you know that forcing her down was an over step on your part. This forum is a great place to vent.
> 
> She's still a baby, chill out and enjoy. I don't really start training until six months at least. She is communicating that she needs a break.




Agreed. Thanks! Just letting some frustration go lol. She is happy and healthy. A good pup overall!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nscullin, 

Lots of folks do not begin formal obedience training until a dog is 10 months old. I don't advocate that, but read your first post, the amount of frustration and annoyance and expectations for a puppy about five months old is over the top. Maybe it isn't, but it certainly comes across that way. 

I posted to shake you up. To make you think what you are doing. You do not have to physically abuse your dog to hurt your dog. To me, she is giving you a clear cue that she is overwhelmed. They do not ignore you out rebellion or stubbornness, usually it is fear of doing the wrong thing. So they clam up. 

My advice which isn't appreciated at all, is to take steps back and not train once or twice a day, and especially not hard work, and when you are frustrated.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I am slapping your fingers because you were bad! Don't force her again.:wink2:

I was taught way, way back that if training is tanking end on a solid note and walk away. It's something I do religiously. If the dog is blowing of commands I ask for a sit or whatever I know they will do. I praise lavishly and either put the dog up or just play. Sometimes we go back to it in a few minutes, sometimes not. Sometimes, most times, it's me having a bad day not the dog at all and I never train when I'm not in a good place.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> I am slapping your fingers because you were bad! Don't force her again.:wink2:
> 
> 
> 
> I was taught way, way back that if training is tanking end on a solid note and walk away. It's something I do religiously. If the dog is blowing of commands I ask for a sit or whatever I know they will do. I praise lavishly and either put the dog up or just play. Sometimes we go back to it in a few minutes, sometimes not. Sometimes, most times, it's me having a bad day not the dog at all and I never train when I'm not in a good place.




I completely understand. I know I shouldn’t have, but hey, at least I can admit it. We did however end on a solid not. And I agree, when we have bad sessions it’s usually me. I don’t blame my dogs. Thank you again for all the knowledgeable info you have provided on this thread and others. 


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

She's 5.5 months. In the teething stage. Maybe she doesn't want the treats because she has some normal mouth discomfort. Pups can be off during this time because they just don't feel great all the time with teething. I also think it's pretty normal for her age. 
Maybe just mix it up a bit. Instead of OB everyday throw in some find it games, more play with OB worked into it as fun for a couple weeks rather than formal training sessions if that is what you are doing now. Try skipping the routine and start something new like a trick (high five, spin, mild agility stuff) then go back to standard OB in a week or two.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

The pup sounds fine. You are a fine example of regression. If you can’t take advise don’t ask.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

It's good to listen to a pup's signs of being done for the moment. You need to avoid that point of both of you being overwhelmed though. Short, playful sessions, no longer than 5 minutes at a time. I don't worry about long sits or downs before they are 9 months old. You and the pup will be more successful that way and you will have more fun. 
Example: when I was teaching a puppy class, a Weimaraner pup, decided he had had enough and sat on his bed facing the class with his back. I used it as a teaching moment for the group. The problem with an evening puppy class is that they are usually plain tired at the time of class and you have to respect the pup's energy level; being a puppy is very exhausting. Take it easy on yourself and your pup, so you both won't be frustrated. Smile, you have a GSD!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

@Nscullin this is an excellent post and video that will help with engagement and focus.https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/758467-working-drive.html#post9204609


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

While this thread became controversial due to myself and another members disagreement bc of ruffled feathers, I worked my pup tonight after a day off due to bad weather. She was nothing short of amazing on the bite pillow. Still working on the food weaning as far as obedience. The members video that was shared (sorry, as I’m typing this on tapatalk, I don’t remember the username) was a bit of a help on the focused heel. I def get the princiPle. I have already read schutzhund obedience by shelia booth and I am currently working on der schutzhund. I have bought Ivan’s videos and I am by no means being cruel or too forceful to my animals. What I meant by a “forced down” is a bit of a collar tug. She worked fine tonight...no collar tugs for the record. Just a simple “nope” when she didn’t carry through. Thanks for all the responses and I hope everyone on this forum keeps in mind that some of us are learning. I by no means claim to be perfect. I am a worked and I am working as hard as I can to get my pup right. While sometimes “overworked” becomes a phrase in dog training, I have to train myself bc overworked is my lifestyle. Thanks in advanced to all. I will continue to participate on the forum although I’ve had my wrists slapped. Have a good night everyone!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Try to enjoy the journey!Take care and have fun with your pup.


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