# Titan 12 months OB and protection



## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

We've been working on OB. He still needs work on staying in a sit and not trying to pick up lost cookies but we are progressing . 
He didn't want to heel at the beginning because my husband was the camera guy and he wanted to say hi, so we will be needing to add him into distractions more. 
I didn't get video earlier at training when we did group work with him. 

Titan OB 12 months - YouTube


And his protection work at 12 months. We haven't added any OB yet and today we started with the soft sleeve and then see how he would do with a regular sleeve. 

Aug 31, 2014 - YouTube


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Thought I put this in there but I guess not.

ETA: anyone have any critiques for us? I'm open to suggestions.


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## ZoeD1217 (Feb 7, 2014)

Well I have no experience so I can't critique but I enjoyed watching the videos and Titan is incredibly handsome! !


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

How do you feel about taking a few steps back, and working on attention and focus without moving yet?


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Ok we can do that. 
As a pup he responded really well with the clicker. 
Could I incorporate that, say when he makes eye contact, click and treat. 
Do you have any video suggestions for foundation work? 
Also, I wanted to do some rear end awareness but can't seem to really get passed getting his front feet on the step or bucket.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

He's so much still a puppy! I would only use food for training new things and use a ball/tug to get his drive state higher. 
When he's checking out with you, turn away quickly so he self corrects. When he's back in heel position with focus, mark it and reward it!
Though using that short line you can't give a good pop...better to go with a longer line that gives some slack. 
His recall and front looked nice, the finish did too, a bit of polishing up on both should have him looking great. 
Is he motivated to tug/toys? I'd start utilizing them for things he knows, save the food for learning phases.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

On your other thread, you mentioned using a ball but you were worried about the leaking. I don't think you'll get what you want with food. I think you'd be better off changing how you play with him, don't worry about the heeling for a little while, and teach him to focus on the toy and cap him in drive.

I really like Ivan's the game. It helps shape a lot of things, not just self control and that capping. At training,have you ever watched someone give their dog some misses,then freeze the dog still staring at the toy? 

I wouldnt worry about the rear end just yet, and I don't want eye contact. I think its too tough to maintain that and its too easy to teach them to wrap and crowd you. The best heeling I ever see, the dog is targeting a place on you where the toy is, like under the arm.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

He loves the ball. Goes nuts for it. 
This is pry a stupid/weird issue but he gets so excited over the ball, when I get it back after the reward it's so soaked in slobber, it won't stay under my arm and constantly falls out. Or I keep having to wipe it 100000 times. 
I never thought to keep a small towel with me but that might just be what I need. 
He also will get so excited when we first start he won't fuss to my side when asked. He will circle me once or twice while barking and then fuss. I wait until he is calm and then I reward.
He's way more excited for the ball than treats. He screams, and does this mouth thing where he chatters his teeth and slobbers.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Do you correct him?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Once he can focus on the ball and hold that position, you'll move into correct heel position. I just wipe the ball off on my shirt.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Yes, when he acts like a squirmy pup, he doesn't get anything. If he becomes too ball focused and tries to jump and grab the ball, he gets a verbal correction. He jumps up and nips me for the ball or tried to grab the ball from my arm pit, he's gets a decent collar correction from me. 
I try as much as possible not to collar correct due to his esophagus but he got me a few times and I wasn't pleased and I let him know.
He's a hard dog, to me, in my inexperience, to the fact that, corrections don't phase him, at all. Even harsh physical ones. So, he will listen initially after the correction, but doesn't learn from it because he will try it again later on if he gets over stimulated
And I'm not quite sure where to draw the line. 
Also after he does this, I do a few leave it exercises and I will wave the ball around his head and will even sit it on his nose, while I hold the string. One he is calm and relaxed, he gets the ball.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Here's a clip of his OB with the ball. 
I left the sound in. 

Titan ball OB - YouTube

Don't mind me tripping at the end


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

It looks like he really enjoys working with you. Hope he gets a nice round of play time after wards.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I like the animation with the ball.... do you ever play tug? It may help with the leaky barking. Drop the ball and when he brings it back, play some tug and either lift him off the ball or out him, then tease him up a couple times(make him miss) and pop the ball in your armpit. Heel away. 
I think when a dog gets to interact more with the reward thru tug and not just fetch, it helps their drive state balance.
I'd also use the line to keep him from forging, put it behind you and give some corrections when he's crowding.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Oh yes he gets a huge play session afterwards  
I will start playing tug with him more.
Should I keep the leash in my right hand or left hand? 
As of now I try to keep it in my right but I know for the BH it will need to be in my left? But I won't have my reward on me. 
Thanks for the suggestions


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Keep the leash in your right hand. If the dog forges, the line goes behind you, if the dog lags, then in front. I do use the leash to communicate, not so much correct. BUT I do correct when the dog starts looking away. I don't do that in heel position, but quickly move away and the slack in the line will give the correction away from me(I do a pop when I move away to make the correction count). The dog will naturally get back into heel position, and I'll verbally reward it when he does. Correcting in heel position can cause conflict.
I've also been told to keep my movements more animated, natural. My dog is long in body and needs a faster pace to keep his attention(he bores easily when we are slow moving)


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Ok will do. Yeah he seems to have a faster pace than I do, but I have short legs. So I will try and make my pace more natural. 
He's such a great little dude. He's always so excited to work and a happy little guy.


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

The one recommendation i have is to not leave with your first step until he is looking at you. He always seem to be looking around and not focusing on you because of this. I like a lot of the potential he has. Also when using food put the hand up on the shoulder when moving and then bring down to reward otherwise it almost looks like you are bribing him to be by your side when the foo dis always in his face. I think for both while learning you can move a little slower so until he knows what to do and allows him to learn more clearly. For the wet ball you can always dry on the grass you have. Have fun he looks like a blast to learn with.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

He isnt focused enough on the ball for you to move yet DTS. He needs to be able to stare at he ball with intensity before you move, and then its one step, then two steps.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

I've watched Ivan's foundation to OB videos and am going to start there. 
I'm pry gonna order the videos because I am
A little lost of how to know when to reward and what to look for.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Remember the 3 second rule. Always wait 3 seconds before you correct or when you are trialing, you should stay in the position(as in when the dog sits and you walk away, turn around.stop.wait 3 seconds before you return to the dog)
As far as reward, only do it when the dog is focused on you and don't push too long. I've overdone the two more steps and then it backfires. Small steps, reward...slowly increase the duration.
As Steve posted, when a dog has to wait for whatever, it intensifies the need. 

When I posted about faster pace, it was during the actual heeling, not so much the positions or turns. Your dog looks like a longer bodied structure and a longer stride would be natural for him.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

When you say leave it DTS, are you playing with him anything like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqBPiZK4BcU


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Yes, to an extent. We are still
In the beginning stages so I will reward sooner, but we are building. And I haven't added any distractions yet. 
Basically I say leave it. Swing it infront of his head, balance it on his nose, etc and when he has left it alone for 5-10 sec i reward.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Don't say leave it anymore, and don't worry about distractions yet. Is he chasing it like that, lunging? Can you give him those misses and cap him like that? With the ball up high?


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

We are going to try it. I'm going to work on that. Getting it up high, I am going to do my best. Hopefully he won't be able to jump extremely high as I top out at 5'1 
So basically I swing the ball around (until I can get a tug) and give him misses until he sits? Then reward


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Its that move back towards him, raising the ball up and you can tell him sit at the same time. Drop the ball to him. Play a little tug, let him run a little, out him and start again. Extend the time with him staring at the ball.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

But don't put it behind your back like he does.


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## GSDhistorian (Aug 30, 2014)

That was impressive!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

The dog barking is good. I encourage the barking and reward it/put it on que. Play tug out the dog make him miss a few times ask for some barking then demand obedience mark and reward. Dog vocalizing in OB is better then one thats flat as a pancake.

Watching this guy has changed the way I train.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be1hjssvXyM&list=UU_s6WBNeZL_iWe2gj4wUefw


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JjV7y-85LY&index=2&list=UU_s6WBNeZL_iWe2gj4wUefw


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Just a few things I need to clarify. 
When asking for a command; sit, platz, fuss into starting position, how do I go about this and kind of wave the reward around building drive? Do I start off waving around the toy, then ask for a command and give him misses until he complys and then reward and build up from there? 
Say we are working on the starting position, and I say fuss and he sits crooked. Do I wait until he corrects himself and then reward or so I wave the reward around give a few misses ad then ask for the fuss again and repeat until he gets the position correctly and then reward?

ETA: I'm going to rent some videos on trainperview but I don't get paid until Friday so I'm trying to get an idea of what to do


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would ask for the position, mark it, reward with verbal. Tease the dog up again and ask, reward with tug, mix it up so the dog will anticipate either or. If he sits crooked, verbal uh-uh and see if he'll fix himself, reward if so. Take your time, make sure his butt is down if he's commanded to sit, not hovering(a spotter is helpful with this). 
Short sessions, IMO, put him up instead of playing fetch or something else. He needs to process his training session, no matter the phase. I personally think a training session is the playtime so we don't engage in play right after. The exception is tracking, we do have a reward at the end of the track with some fun, but truthfully my dog would rather continue on with the track than be interrupted by a toy or other reward. But we often have to go pretty far back to the vehicle so crating right after tracking still has some time spaced for transition/ not processing the track immediately.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Ok that makes so much more sense lol 
I can picture it now


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Never reward anything less then correct unless your shaping new behaviors imo. Thats how you create sloppy looking OB that crops up at the most annoying times. 

I only shape new behaviors with food. I teach the dog to be correct with food then add the toy for drive and speed. 

Lower drive state = better learning and more precision. 
Higher drive state = speed and animation. 

Imo dont use prey objects until the dog KNOWs the command already.

Example: Shape heel with clicker/marker and food. Then add ball. 

Also, like Steve said start stationary then add motion when you have good focus. Break up all complex behaviors similarly.


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

I like a lot of what Blitzkrieg says where I disagree is the whole sit then add focus. I find for most dogs that the sit is the biggest killer of drive. I get the dog in drive. So I open my body say with food or a toy ad bring them into heel and move out slowly to teach. What I mean is I say "heel and that time my right foot stays still my left goes back so that he can come up beside it and then move out slowly. If I want to work on the start position I will heel like a few paces and then stop and reward from under my arm with the toy or bring the food down from the shoulder and let him nibble.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

What I've been taught.. We don't really start moving forward until we have rock solid focus in basic under many distractions.. Then it's one or two steps forward, halt while the dog keeps it's focus up. Or take a step away from the dog and have him/her move with you into position.. Also teaching 90 degree pivots. We progress from there.. 

With my young pup, 8 months old.. I've just over the last 2 weeks started putting the ball under my arm while in basic and adding the distractions.. It's a slow process for sure, but I think it's well worth taking the time, since everything revolves around heeling in SchH..


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Just wanted to add that with dogs that I have seen in which the teaching process was all done with a prey object the dog always lacks precision. Sits crooked or forges in the heeling etc. 
Im in the camp that believes that its more difficult for a dog to learn new behaviors especially nuanced ones in a high drive state. 

Its easy to teach a dog to platz but then you start adding things like being straight, and speed and correct body position etc. It gets more complicated then just..platz.

@Szaricksdad: If I found certain areas like sit or platz was killing drive I would just reward in those positions for a while. For a while I just rewarded on turns now whenever I do a turn the dog perks up because she is expecting a reward. Same with the motion exercises.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

body language cues the dog as well...a head movement, shoulder raise or lower....dogs pick up on these quite well. 
Another reason to have someone spot you, or a good trainer to help with the handling and footwork. Even if you can't find an IPO handler to help one on one in obedience, someone who does competitive AKC obedience may be worth training with. Though they aren't usually into the drive building or capping, but can help spot the footwork, timing, etc.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Rule of thumb is to build stationary focus for a minute or so before taking 1 step.


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