# Not interested in raw anymore



## krispifsu (Dec 23, 2007)

I have been feeding Lily a raw diet for about a year and a half now. She has had some problems off and on with vomiting/refusing to eat/etc. and she's had a full work up at the vet including a fecal, x-rays, ultrasound of heart and stomach, blood work, etc. several times and nothing abnormal ever shows up other than a showing of gas in the intestines. Usually we ride it out with fluids and sometimes anti-nausea meds and then start off with boiled rice and chicken and work our way back to a full raw diet again. 

She usually eats chicken, turkey, beef, pork (very limited), lamb (only once a week or so), vension (rarely), canned fish (mackrel, salmon, sardines), and usually chicken liver or kidney for OM with yogurt and raw eggs for extras. Several times I have tried an elimination diet of starting with just chicken and adding slowly new items to see if something in particular doesn't sit well with her. I have found that she doesn't do well with large amounts of pork so she gets that rarely and she doesn't seem to do well with lots of fat so I trim the fat and skin off her meats. But I just can't seem to get her settled for long periods of time on a solid diet without issues. She does great for months and then goes through bouts of diahrrea that take a while to clear up and now she isn't eating all of her meals. I put her food down in the morning and run through her drills (she has to wait and sometimes I make her do a long stay or other commands - she loves this part and does it excitedly) but as soon as I release her to eat, she'll go over, smell her food, and walk away. I can sometimes coax her to eat and I never add extras to her meal. I pick it up after 15-20 minutes and then try again in a few hours. She sometimes will eat and other times won't. Some days she only eats one of her meals a day (she used to eat ~1 lb. of food twice a day). 

Any thoughts? I'm starting to think about starting a new diet with her if this isn't going to work. I like the idea of her on raw, but if something isn't working...then it's not working. She doesn't seem to want to eat her raw foods anymore and is having loose stools again (not diahrea, but when she goes it comes out unformed).


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Did the vet check her mouth? Any teeth issues?

When she walks away from the raw food does she show interest in treats? Is it that she's not hungry or just not wanting the raw?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Have you had her tested for SIBO? From your description it sounds like SIBO or IBD both of which can be painful because of the gas. 

Does she appear nauseous? Lip licking, etc.? When she turns away from raw is she interested in any other types of food? 

Here's something easy to try--it absolutely is safe and can really help with intestinal issues. Buy the slippery elm capsules at a health food store and start giving 2 to 3 at a time to Lily 3 times a day, in between meals.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Lauri is so good, I was also going to suggest a tooth problem. Maybe a painful tooth. I've also had bad experiences with too much fatty food like pork and turkey thighs and had to limit fat with one of my dogs. 

Do you think a food grinder would help? I'd try some of the commercial packaged ground up raw food first before laying out the money on a food grinder.


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## krispifsu (Dec 23, 2007)

The vet did look inside her mouth at her yearly check-up a few months ago, but that was the extent of any teeth checking. My vet believes all of her issues are because of the raw diet so it's a battle to get them to check other things. How would the vet test for SIBO? 

She smells the food and runs to it like she's starving, but once she smells it she walks away. I haven't tried offering her treats when she refuses her regular meal, but she does take treats at all the other times. 

She does show signs of being nauseous at times (lip licking, foamy saliva on her lips) and occasionally (varies from once every week or two to no episodes for months) will vomit bile. This isn't a daily occurence or anything but I would definitely call her sensitive. And lately she has had some stinky farts. She is still very active though and I don't see a difference in anything else with her...just the eating. 

I really wish I could find a vet that is comfortable with raw feeding, but when I go to the vet now the raw foods are always the cause just because they're raw










Honestly, I'm not sure if it's the raw foods or just eating in general since I've made an effort to not offer anything else. I can try to offer her something else though and see if she eats that when she refuses her meal. 

Thanks for the help!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

What time do you feed each day? Maybe she is going too long without food and her stomach bile is building up.

Sasha did the exact same thing the other day. She was all excited while I was making the food but when I put the bowl down she sniffed it and walked away. A little while later she urped up some bile.

I have been trying to feed them 12 hours apart (no more) AND offer a treat at bedtime to tide them over.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I have to feed Rafi three evenly divided meals a day or his stomach empties out and he throws up bile. Evidently his metabolism is very fast. If Chama went too long she had acid build up and her stomach would start gurgling away and she would refuse to eat. 

Offering a snack at night is definitely a good thing to try but with the gas issue going on too I'd say she's got some sort of intestinal problem too. Again, the slippery elm is excellent for acid, nausea and gas. I started using it for Chama after she bloated and was having all kinds of digestive issues and it worked like a charm. I'm currently using it twice a day for Cleo, my cat, because she has IBD and chronic renal failure and I have to be sure she does not get any acid build up or she stops eating.


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## krispifsu (Dec 23, 2007)

Lily's first meal depends on the day of the week. On Mondays and Thursdays she gets her meal offered to her about 7 AM and the other days of the week anywhere from 7 -10 depending on what time we go out for our morning walk/run/fetch session to allow for her to cool down afterwards. She has refused to eat at all different times. She usually gets a midday snack of yogurt and an egg or a treat and then dinner around 8 -9 PM depending on our evening walk/run/fetch session. 

I am going out today to get the slippery elm. I know I can get it at a local health food store so I think that may be a good start. She did the foamy mouth thing on our walk this morning so I'm waiting to see how she reacts to her meal this morning. 

Thanks for all the help.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

From your description Lilly's stomach is emptying out too much. In addition to the slippery elm, I would add a small late night snack and see if that helps. I used to feed Basu and Chama a half patty of pre-prepared raw at night and that worked for Chama as long as I didn't wait too long to feed her breakfast in the A.M. 

In the morning Rafi eats about a half hour after his morning walk and about 10 hours after his last meal. His dinner is usually about 8 hours after breakfast and a half hour after his big exercise session. Then his snack is usually 4 to 6 hours later.


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## krispifsu (Dec 23, 2007)

Lily ate her morning meal but only after a little coaxing. I picked up some slippery elm capsules and will start those today as well. I have used slippery elm before when one of my cats has some digestive issues so hopefully this will help Lily as well. 

I think I'll also try adding in a before bedtime snack with her and see if that helps. 

Thanks again for all the help!


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Good luck with the slippery elm! Let us know how it goes.


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## krispifsu (Dec 23, 2007)

I think the slippery elm is working!









I started giving Lily two capsules in between her meals on Friday and I haven't had any issues getting her to eat her meals since then. I've started with feeding her a more substantial midday snack and giving her a small snack at bedtime too. So far so good. She's back to eating with enthusiasm and I haven't noticed any bad gas or foamy mouthy issues either. 

So with the slippery elm - should I only give it when I notice that she is having some stomach issues (gas, foamy mouth, reluctant to eat, etc.) or can this be something that I give everyday? If I give it everyday can I offer it with her midday snack (yogurt, egg, and a little raw meat) or does it need to be given on an empty stomach? 

Thanks! Keeping my fingers crossed that maybe we've found the solution to Lily's issues!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I would only use it when you see the need.


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