# Having a little difficulty



## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

*Summary*: For those who don't wish to read the entire post, I am looking for some help comparing three out of four of my favorite breeds. The German Shepherd, Doberman, and Belgian Malinois. I would prefer input from people who have personally owned one or more of these breeds, however anyone's opinions are welcome. Please no bashing though!

Ok, so, I am in the beginning stages of getting "my" first own dog. I have had countless dogs in my life, owned and not, so I am not lacking in experience. However, I was never the person paying for and actually picking out the animal as I was living under my parent's roof. I've been doing research and trying to make an informed decision about which breed is best for me when I am able to own a dog in about a year or so as I am still in college right now.

Ideally, I would like to own all three of these breeds but that can't happen all at the same time unless I win the lottery! So basically, I would love it if someone can compare the personalities of these three breeds. I know what they are like as individual breeds, but I would like to compare traits such as affection level, loyalty, natural protectiveness, aloofness, etc. I understand individuals of different breeds and lines can be different. I don't need 100% accurate statements, just personal experiences and opinions would be nice. 

Oh and just to be clear, I am the type of person that changes my mind often so I have done some research on all three breeds since I kept changing my mind. Regardless of my indecisiveness on which breed I would enjoy most and is most right for me, I am still responsible and willing to put in the time and money to properly care for my dog. Thanks!


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I have a friend that had 2 dobermans when I met her. Now she has 2 dobermans and 2 GSDs...

One of the big differences between dobies and GSDs is that dobies want to TOUCH you. ALL THE TIME. They will sit leaning against you or on your foot or with their head in your lap. A GSD will follow you from room to room to room, always nearby, but they are happy checking in with you and then lying down a few feet away. 

Another factor with dobies can be that they are very weather sensitive--they don't like getting their feet wet or going out in the rain or snow. GSDs love to swim and don't much think about the rain and love the snow.

One day, I may get a Dobe.... they have a definite sense of humor and panache. But they can very much be divas.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

That was helpful, thank you. I can definitely see the dobies being more of a diva than the shepherds.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

umm not to take anything away from this but not ALL shepherds are content being a few feet away.. Jinx HAS to be touching me she sits on my feet in the bathroom she pokes her nose in the shower and licks my leg she completely LAYS on top of me on the couch, at night she sleeps next to me but places on paw on top of my leg or some other part of her body on top of me. While there are some shepherds that don't even want to be touched there are those (like Jinx) that are beyond cuddle bugs and can never seen to get enough attention and touching. 

Ive only been around a few dobes before so know very little. 1 they are FAST lol they definitely have their own sense of humor and great characters I dont know about how they work as far as training etc.. I do have to say I love the shepherds just because of how indepth they are. Everything I've heard about mals are that they are alot like shepherds just a bit higher strung/higher energy.. I'm sure again there is a WIDE spectrum.. all amazing breeds I have great admiration for but for me personally shepherds are the only way to go.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

ok this is from a diehard german shepherd lover, I've had them my entire life and will always have atleast one in the house

I have quite a few friends with dobies and mals..Dobies, are ok, the ones I know, just seem to have a stubborn streak IF they choose to not do 'something'.. maybe it's more independent is the word I'm looking for? Mals, LOVE EM, but if I owned one, I would want to be able to devote ALL my time to that one dog..They have their quirks, a little to reactive for me, some are very touch sensitive..As in, you touch em on the butt and they jump 50 feet in the air 

I always go back to my gsd's, brains, versatile, easy trainers (atleast the ones I've had), biddable, adaptable. Sure they have their own set of problems, but I've been blessed thru my life to have/had some wonderful german shepherds

Just my 2 cents


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I have been in classes with a lot of dobermans, and they are always laying down and looking bored. But very good at obedience. That's all I know about them. 

Malinois are dogs that don't want to be everybody's best friend. They could not care less if a stranger wants to pet them. Just stand there and look uninterested. Also, expect to spend a lot of time with one. They are definitely not a "leave in the backyard all day" type of dog. My working line Malinois was my second dog. I thought I was prepared for her, but I certainly was not. She is the most challenging dog I've over owned, but partly because she is incredibly smart! Also a great agility dog.

All three of my dogs are protective. 

My Laekenois will kiss everybody, but knows a bad guy when he sees one. They have a history of being employed as police and war dogs. They were nearly exterminated during the WWII. You will find them doing Protection Sports all over Europe and in the USA. (The Laekenois is the foundation breed for all the Belgian Shepherds and a couple of other breeds.)

My Malinois is my early alert dogs - poor nerves. 

My Dutchie (I know not on your list but worth considering) has shown that he has solid nerves during a temperament test. He is not as quick to attack as my Laekenois. He is the most athletic dog I have ever seen. I think he will give the Border Collies some competition in agility. He's young, so still a work in progress. (The PURE Dutch Shepherd has changed very little in the last 100 years. It is an old breed and very much like the German Shepherds of 100 years ago.)


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

one of my friends has 3 dobies from the same breeder and I can honestly say I love all 3 of them very good in obedience and loving towards their family, 1 of her dobies is a real Diva and the other 2 are more like my GSD in personality. 
Frank my GSD is both content to lay at my feet always in the same room as I am, or he can also be a snuggler laying beside me in bed whichever I want. He's been Great in obedience and he's still not very old so I'm looking forward to see how far we can go. 
I looked at the Mal's before deciding on the GSD and from talking to different people I decided the Mal just had a little more energy then I wanted right then for me.


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

Personally if I think between those 3 breeds a GSD is the best as a first time owner, I have not owned a Malinois, but my Grandmother (may she rest in piece) was a breeder (Dobies and poodles).
My take on it is as much as Dobies are versatile, GSDs just have a bit extra. For example, Dobies can't handle cold weather as well as GSDs, so winter is pretty tough if you live somewhere cold. also water will be an issue, if the temperature is not just right. I'm sure others will come in and add to that. Doberman can be a bit more stubborn too. (not that some GSDs aren't, but we love them anyways  )
And finally if you get a GSD you get to hang out here with us  we are awesome LOL


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My first obedience dog was a Dobe and I will always have a soft spot for the breed. Christine is right, many don't like the water or at the least are not good swimmers. Ours loved going in the water, but he didn't swim well and actually hated it. Funny, my parents also had a Dobe/Lab mix and he didn't like the water either. The Dobe had excellent ball drive and in many ways wasn't that much different to work with than my GSD. We got him in 1983. They don't do as well in colder temps though ours would play in icy puddles in spring. Many are sort of wussy about sitting or downing in wet grass or on the cold ground which can be an issue when you compete in outside sports. I don't feel the breed is as strong as it used to be though I do see some nice ones come into our puppy classes. They are, for the most part, a quick athletic breed. The breed has in many areas been dumb down so do a lot of research. 

I am a GSD person. I probably will never own another breed again. I love this breed, but also hate it. We see a LOT that are very bad coming into the puppy classes. Nervy, fearful, reactive or just detached from their people. This breed probably more than any other has been divided into so many types that picking a good puppy can be confusing for a new person. Get used to hair. LOL I swear that a new dog grows around Alexis' crate over night. All three of these breeds shed and the Mal also has a double coat, but I think it is the thickness of the GSD undercoat that makes them the worst. Also, get used to having a shadow. My guys always believe that I may go out the door at any minute and that I must have an escape route out of the bathroom.  What I love about this breed is their strong desire to work and work with me. Plus, they can be so darn much fun to train. They were bred to work with people while also thinking on their own. I have not seen this so much in other breeds. And I like how they look. Again, be very very careful where you get a puppy.

I have never owned a Mal, but have trained with them. They are fun to watch, but I have just never been attracted to the breed. They are probably the healthiest of all three breeds. I, and I know this will tick off someone, would stay away from the AKC show lines. I have not seen a good show bred Mal in many many years. Horrible horrible nerve issues. When we have a bad GSD come into class most are at least fairly social to the people. The Mals (we get the other Belgians in classes too with the Tervs being the worst) are fearful of not only the other puppies, but also people. Mals do tend to be a bit lower threshold and more reactive overall than a GSD when puppies. Even the really good ones. This low threshold can make them super obedience dogs and probably fun to work in agility.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

I've had GSDs and my parents had Dobies.

I'm biased. 

That said, either breed might fill your bill with the caveat that you need to know, have references for, and trust the breeder. Call the references, check out the breeder's vet. Ask where puppies from other breedings are and what the dogs are doing. Find out if the breeder knows what he/she is trying to achieve with the selection of dogs he/she intends to breed. Of course, ask health questions.

Lots of folks with puppies on their hands talk a good game so follow up and check, check, check.

Do you mind shedding? A GSD is a big time shedder. GSDs are prone to a lot of health issues and can be very expensive to maintain. But there is no more versatile or loyal breed than the GSD.

Not sure about Dobies or Mals healthwise.

If you research Mals, go to the source. Talk to trainers, look out a club in your area 
and learn more about them.

Good luck!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

No experience with Dobies, but my GSDs are very physical, cuddly dogs too. Keefer would go through life smeared all over me like peanut butter if he could.  He's EXTREMELY affectionate, to the point of soliciting hugs from friendly strangers. Halo is more independent in that she does not need to always be in the same room or within sight of either of us, much less constantly touching, she's perfectly content hanging out in another room by herself. But she loves to cuddle on the bed or couch.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

BlackPuppy, it seems to me that anyone who wants to own a Malinois is never truly ready for them until they bring one into the house! Haha! I really don’t mind a dog that isn’t everyone’s best friend. Actually, I almost prefer it. I do want a dog that is well behaved enough to be in public responsibly though, which I am confident any well socialized animal from any of these breeds can as long as they are from good lines. Also, what do you mean by poor nerves? I know the term but I’ve seen it used in different ways and people seem to have varying opinions on it.

Nitemares, I have thought about the cold weather. It is a good point, although I know winters should not hold me back from owning a Doberman if I truly felt the breed was best for me. But, as I have stated, I am flexible in what I need/want in a dog so this is why I am doing all the research I can. New Jersey winters are not fuzzy kittens! And I love your argument of me getting to hang out with you guys. No matter what breed I get, I think I’ll stick around. It’s always good to have different point of views in my opinion.

lhczth, I completely agree with you on the breeds being watered down. I believe it is apparent in most breeds today. It is very unfortunate but I am very well aware of it so I have developed a skeptic outlook to help me weed out breeders without true, good intentions. I do also believe that the Malinois is most intact with its ancestors out of all three breeds as they just aren’t as popular which I’m sure is due to their insane energy level. Also, I am not really interested in the show lines from any of the breeds I listed. I really hope no one takes offense to this, as I am not saying by any means that show line dogs are bad in any way. I just do not care for the lines because of the negative association that comes with them. I also hate how they breed that ugly hind leg angulation in both the Dobes and the Shepherds. Obviously it is more pronounced in the American line Shepherd, but I still see it in other breeds such as the Rottweiler too. I will be looking into working lines for any of these breeds. Hair does not bother me one bit, so no worries there! Every time I go to work (I work with horses at a rescue.) I hug my boss’s husky cross who is cream colored but for the most part his hair is white. I always leave looking more like a dog than he does, LOL.

I’m sorry if I didn’t respond to everyone. So much great information here! ☺


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Of the three breeds, i would look more heavily into GSDs and Dobies. Mals are..... intense. 

I cant vouche for dobermans because i've really only ever spent time with 3 or 4 of them. I'd love to have the breed in the future after we own our own home instead of living in military housing. I absolutely fell in love with a black and rust male who visited the dog park back home. He was not only stunning but he also wasnt a complainer. Obedient like you wouldnt believe. Amazingly athletic. Despised water. I mean watching him try to get a drink without getting his feet muddy was hysterical, though I think he was silly about it on purpose because his antics got people laughing. All you had to do was scratch him behind the ears and he was your friend for life. He made it his mission to give everyone a kiss before he went to play. The other dobies i've met belonged to a far away "family" member and they were rotten to the core. She failed in socializing them and epically failed in training them. I imagine they would have been fabulous dogs but she neglected them. Living in a cold winter area, you might want to consider a doggie sweater for outside walks and a cozy bed to sleep on at night. The two downer dobies werent enough to turn me off from the breed. Right breeder, properly socialized they can be great. 

GSDs, well.... i cant imagine my life without at least one in the house. They're great. The shedding can be crazy sometimes but unconditional love makes up for it. Shepherds can be drama queens. lol. If you accidentally step on their foot, they will often be very dramatic about it. When i say dramatic about it i mean they will yelp and give you that "yeah you better feel bad!!" look and when they think you arent looking they're 100% fine. But if you fawn over them stepping on their foot, the next time you look at them, they'll act like they're still hurt and broken. Its pretty funny when you catch them doing that. My GSDs have all been pretty cuddly but are also good with sleeping on the floor a few feet away. I'm not allowed to go anywhere alone though haha. 

Mals.... like i said, can be intense. I've been around two and they were just bouncing with energy and ready to go go go go go go go! Not for the faint of heart! They definitely need an active owner. Beyond that, i cant tell you much about them. 

Good luck in your search!


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

What I have learned about these 3 dogs I will sum up. 

Mal- this is a dog I will have next. I have talked to a lady that has 2 now and had others in the past. She said a well trained socialized Mal is the best dog you will ever have. But if you don't put the extra work into training and socializing they can be ****. They are dogs that think and work things out. These are dogs if trained will give you a 100% no question ask. They are a dog you need to run and need to work their mind. They get bored easy. These are protective dogs they are not going to be welcoming to strangers but should not be aggressive or fearful of new people. Because of their aloofness to strangers ones in rescues can take some time to adopt out. 

Dobermans are great dogs. They are good with kids and other animals. They can run for days. They love to make you happy making them easy to train. I have never met a Doberman I did not like. Growing up there was one that lived near us. She would go on walks with us. She was a great dog. Our friend had one that got little attention but still was a great happy dog. One main reason I don't have one right now is because I live in a cold snowy environment. These are not dogs for the cold. 

As for GSD you will find all the info you could need on this guys on this forum.

If you live in nor cal there is a male Mal in a Stockton pound.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Pepper311, thank you! I really am interested in the Mal. I understand how intense they are and that is mostly the reason I am so drawn to them. They are unbelievable. Unfortunately I am from New Jersey so not a close drive to Northern Cali.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

If you are serious about a malinois, please make sure you spend time with the parents of the puppy before buying. Myself, I'd like to see those dogs in a new environment rather than at their home. And I'd only buy a pup from parents that have some sort of performance titles. I live in NJ and have been around Malinois bred in this area....there are some seriously fruit-bat dogs out of conformation champions. 

Spoke with a woman at a match show recently, she was working her dog thru a Utility run. The dog couldn't focus, she looked all around with her ears back to back, panting heavily with her eyes bugged out. I was able to guess the lines, because I've worked with a few mals that act the same way! I asked if she was getting ready to show in Utility....she said not even close, the dog was so flaky they didn't have a CD yet....she was pushing on with the training but wasn't optimistic that they'd ever get advanced titles because the dog was such a spook. Not just in the ring, but in everyday life, the dog worried about everything.

Whatever breed you choose, just be careful, and don't buy any old line handed out about working ability. Look for actual titles on the parents, AND make sure they act like dogs you want to spend time with!


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Thank you for your input DunRingill. I am honestly not interested in show lines of any of these breeds ESPECIALLY the Mal because that is where I think a lot of the ridiculous nerves and unstable temperament come from. An issue with meeting the parents is that the breeders I am starting to really like are not very close to New Jersey. :/


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Vicky said:


> Thank you for your input DunRingill. I am honestly not interested in show lines of any of these breeds ESPECIALLY the Mal because that is where I think a lot of the ridiculous nerves and unstable temperament come from. An issue with meeting the parents is that the breeders I am starting to really like are not very close to New Jersey. :/


That's good! i just wanted to give a warning without breeder bashing  But trust me I've met some dogs that I wouldn't wish on anyone!


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

What do you want out of your dog? I mean everyone on this board is going to be a GSD person. But what things are important to you in dog ownership? Is your dog a social tool? Are you highly interested in training? If yes, what do you want to train in? Do you like to be competitive? What's your lifestyle like? Lots of free time? How do you expect your dog to exist in the house? How adaptable are you?

All the Dobermans I have met are goofy. Pretty good obedience dogs. Most I've known have actually been friendly family dogs. Difficult to find a good one if you're looking at Protection sports. Some nerve issues, but really that can be a problem in any of the breeds you are looking at. Definite health issues. I've known several with cardiac problems. 

The problem with Shepherds is that there are so many types and styles that it's difficult to say what you're getting without doing some heavy research. Not all GSDs are created equal. That said, I love all of mine. Will probably always have one. They're smart, in tune with their owners. But as much as I love them, they're not always for the first time dog handler. You've had other dogs, but I wont always recommend a GSD to people who want a dog. I cant control what dog people get, and a GSD with nerve problems can be difficult. Really looking at the dog you get is important. Health problems in Shepherds abound. We've been fortunate not to have any problems.

Mals. My husband would love to have one. But he loves crazy. In general, they are tighter wound and more reactive. This makes their obedience lovely. And I know a couple in agility that are fun to watch too. However, in a way I think this makes them more difficult to train. I don't find them to be forgiving. They are a sensitive breed and most of the ones I have seen don't often give their handlers trouble. However, poor timing, a heavy hand, coupled with nerves, reactivity, can create a problem. And I've seen more than one Mal that had to be rehabbed to even be approachable. It's a lot of dog and not only do you have to be committed, you really ought to be good too.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

I honestly want a challenge. I have waited quite a long time to have a dog that I choose, train, live with, and that is just MY dog. I've always been forced to limit my decision based on what my family wanted or because of their opinions regarding certain breeds and things of that nature. I am beyond excited to finally have this opportunity so I will be doing as much research as possible to be comfortable in my decision. I am the type of person who will do a ton of research, make a choice, do more research, and then possibly change my mind a couple times before I come to a final decision. I am just very "anal" about being confident in what I want. 

As far as what I really want in a dog, I want an animal that I can bring with me anywhere. I want to share my life with a dog. However, I do not want an easy dog again. My dog does not have to be everyone's friend. A dog that is comfortable and civil around strangers is more than sufficient. What do you mean by social tool? I want an active dog as I love dabbling in different things at home with my dogs from agility to obedience to just learning unique and interesting tricks. Anything to engage both of us together. As you can see, I am very highly interested in training. I am not sure about how competitive I would like to be. I would love to do some research into finding a Schutzhund club in my area. I have read one book that seems to be recommended a lot just for fun and I think it looks like a lot of fun. I just don't know how intensive the sport is if you're not necessarily looking to be very competitive or even successful in the sport, if that makes any sense. I plan on posting a thread about it since it is a different topic, but since you asked. 

To be really honest, as much as I thought I loved Dobermans, I am starting to lose interest as I feel that most of my liking for the breed was due to their looks. After reading around this forum and looking more into GSDs and Mals, I am much more interested in them. They still have great personalities and are beautiful, don't get me wrong, but I am looking for more than that. 

The fact that there are so many variations and styles of Shepherds is one of the reasons I think I was a little intimidated with the research involved since there is just so many opinions and sources of information. It has proven challenging to say the least but I find I am learning a hundred new things every day I read and poke around, so it is encouraging. I am confident that I would be a lot of research into a breeder when I finally do choose one so hopefully that will severely hinder my chances of getting a dog with an unstable temperament. However, I think that chance can never be truly eliminated as people can influence a dog to behave terribly. Also if I chose a dog from a rescue, there is always a chance I might not know one key thing to that dog's history that could be detrimental to me, you know? Not saying dogs from rescues are bad or anything of that sort, but it is very possible. I understand their vast health problems, as with the Dobermans, it does not scare me. It is a slight turn off but there are so many great attributes to them that I think it is worth it. 

Crazy excites me! It is the biggest reason the Mals drew me in. I never did serious research on them until recently, but I can say that I am really drawn to them. I would say I wouldn't own one without meeting some dogs and really talking with a good breeder. I have also seen some suggestions for fostering a Mal from a rescue to get a handle on them and I love that idea! I would definitely apply as a foster home for a Mal before getting my own. I equate them with a high strung horse, which are my favorite kind. I work with horses, which is why I make this correlation. Some of the most talented horses are so high strung and get so worked up, and without a sensitive rider, you will get no where. But if you can skillfully work with that horse, the results are unbelievable. I know horses and dogs are not the same but I find that the comparison is valid. 

Thank you for your response. Responding to you guys is helping me really hone in on what I want and where I should direct my future research.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I own 2 GSDs, I love the GSD breed, they are my favorite so I will always choose GSD over any other breed, however, I love my friend's 2 Dobermans. 

With my 2.5 year old male GSD, he is very smart, catches on to training quickly, super sweet, big, gorgeous, loves people, loves other dogs, loves my kitten, loves attention, he follows me everywhere, stays close to me and is always watching me. He was/is great to train with. He is perfect for me and the reason I fell in love with the GSD breed. I would do anything for him. :wub:

My 17 week old female is a lover, she loves to cuddle, she's very sweet, she loves people, loves other dogs, she's independent, curious and confident, bossy and loud, she is more energetic than my male was but she is able to settle in the house. She is a problem solver, she's smart but a little more stubborn, catches on to training but not as quickly as my male. She is a great puppy and I adore her. :wub:

I spend alot of time with my friend's 2 Dobermans, a male and a female, I love them, they are gorgeous, sweet, love to cuddle, get along with other dogs, friendly towards people, smart. My only complaint about them and other Dobermans I have met are that they are HUGE barkers! They bark ALOT and ALL of the time. I grew up next to barking Dobermans and my friend's 2 Dobies are barkers.

I will own a Doberman someday but I am not looking forward to the barking. :crazy:


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Another factor with dobies can be that they are very weather sensitive--they don't like getting their feet wet or going out in the rain or snow. GSDs love to swim and don't much think about the rain and love the snow.


This is a very important point. A friend of mine is a Dobe person and stresses that they CANNOT be out in the elements (hot, cold, rainy, windy, etc.) for any length of time. All of her hers have coats they wear for wintertime potty breaks.

Dobermans also have a tendency to be same sex aggressive (a trait that can show up in GSDs as well, but isn't quite as prevalent), so if you're planning on having more than one dog (or wanting to spend off leash time with others' dogs) this is something to consider. A DA Dobe can be trained to the point where he/she is obedient enough to obey their owners when other dogs of the same sex are around, but cannot really be trusted and won't be able to have "fun" playing with them the majority of the time. I deal with same sex aggression with my male Rottie and it's not fun.

Another thing to consider is, if you want a "classic" look in a Dobe, your best bet is from a really great breeder. If you get a puppy, you'll have to deal with ear care from the crop, and you're going to want to make sure that the breeder uses a vet that specializes in crops... there are a lot of really bad crop jobs out there on Dobermans. I certainly would NEVER discount rescue but I'm just stating the facts about the ears.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Vicky said:


> Actually, I almost prefer it. I do want a dog that is well behaved enough to be in public responsibly though, which I am confident any well socialized animal from any of these breeds can as long as they are from good lines. Also, what do you mean by poor nerves?


With her, poor nerves means that she gets nervous at strange sounds and sights. On trash night, if she hears somebody rolling their trash bin to the street she will bark a couple of times. I acknowledge her alert bark and she settle down to sleep. 

She's quite a character. I wish I had done more research before buying her. The breeder was a hobby breeder and breeding for dog sport. It appears the breeder does not have a very good reputation. She was extremely mouthy as a puppy, and is, and will always be, very hyper. But she had to go live with somebody. At least I understand her now and we have worked out a good relationship.

Now, I know somebody who really did their research before buying a Malinois. Her dog is not a conformation dog. I don't know the breeder's philosophy in that regards. But Chris and Dazzle are quite a pair! Dazzle is Mr. Overachiever, but Chris has worked with him since he was a puppy. That dog does everything! Dazzle has also been trained to accept money from strangers and place it in a donation bucket.

Dog Gone Happy: About Dazzle


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Just another note about Dazzle and Chris. Chris is a retired disabled police officer. At first glance, she seems perfectly fine, but she does have some mobility issues. 

Another person I know in Michigan, also got a Malinois from the same breeder as Dazzle. I'm not sure, but they might even be from the same litter. The other dog is Jami. Jami's owner has more severe mobility issues and Jami is also a service dog. She wears a harness with a handle and helps to stabilize her owner and keep her from falling. 

So, Malinois can definitely be great dogs in public. Once Jami was doing her job bracing her owner and another dog came and bit her on her rear end, but she didn't move a bit. 

BTW, both dogs are owner trained.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Vicky said:


> Crazy excites me! It is the biggest reason the Mals drew me in. I never did serious research on them until recently, but I can say that I am really drawn to them. I would say I wouldn't own one without meeting some dogs and really talking with a good breeder. I have also seen some suggestions for fostering a Mal from a rescue to get a handle on them and I love that idea! I would definitely apply as a foster home for a Mal before getting my own. I equate them with a high strung horse, which are my favorite kind. I work with horses, which is why I make this correlation.


I'm just reading some of the other things your wrote, like this. I am going to suggest again that you look at Dutch Shepherds. Only problem is, it's hard to find the breeders that don't specialize in the hard core dog sports. 

I think a Dutch Shepherd is about a midway point between a GSD and a Malinois, but there's more to them than that. They are crazy smart, extremely athletic, and seem very sensible, if that makes sense. It's hard to explain. It's more like he's looking into me and trying to tell me things. 

There's a facebook group I belong to that is for like minded Dutch Shepherd owners. There are a bunch of people from Europe, because that's were we got our dogs. It's not just for the long coat. Log In | Facebook

I am also on a Dutch Language Dutch Shepherd forum. But I'm guessing you don't speak Dutch.  

And here is a woman that I met in Europe and know online who breeds both short and coarse coat dogs. These are dogs breed for family life and also work in agility, obedience, tracking, herding. The Europeans do a lot with their dogs. Kennel v.'t Loksterland Her site is in Dutch , but her English is excellent!

Purebred_Dutch_Shepherds : Purebred_Dutch_Shepherds

Okay. That's all. Just saying you should take a closer look at the Purebred Dutchies. 

(If you ever see a DS with white on its chest, you know it's a mix.)


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I've had several Dobes over the years, and I really REALLY miss having one. I lost my old red girl two years ago - she was 14.

They are extremely goofy, and don't like the elements. Flying water (aka rain) just annoys the heck out of them. Good luck keeping one off the couch.  and yes, they are always leaning on you, or sitting on your feet.

My trainer used to say "with Goldens you pattern, with German Shepherds you train, with Dobermans you negotiate". Regular compulsion training bored my girl to death. The clicker lit her up like a Christmas tree. They get bored easily. As puppies, they have no sense at all. We would joke that it takes about 18 months for the brains to arrive. Until then, oh boy! 

There ARE health problems in the breed. Cardiomyopathy, Wobblers, Von Willibrands.  

<sigh> now I want one!! But I seriously have no room for 3 big dogs. (keep repeating this to myself...)


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

BlackPuppy, thank you again for all this info! I love the researching part of this because of all the options I have after reading everyone's input. The Dutch Shepherd looks like it might be an option for sure. I have started poking around for information on them. However, it does seem that some people find them laughable when looking into them for sport. I haven't done a whole lot of research so this could just be from some diehard breed fan who is willing to put down anything that isn't whatever breed they work with. I would like to dabble in a protection sport if that is possible, as that is something else I am researching as well. 

Do you have any breeder recommendations for me to look at? I see that Logan Haus is one that people speak highly of on a working dog forum, but yet I can't tell if his dogs are Malinois, Dutch, or a mix between the two. Arko, his stud, seems to be a cross because he is fawn like a Malinois, but has brindling as well?


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Ok so after some more poking around, it seems to be common to breed a Mali and a Dutchie and then simply call the fawn offspring Malinois and the brindled offspring Dutch Shepherds. I am a little offended by this as even though their lineage is very similar, I still consider those offspring mixed. Not sure exactly why this bothers me, but I don't really like it.


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## aneiper (Oct 11, 2011)

I have two Dobes, one male and one female. I have always had a Dobe since I can remember and I couldn't imagine having any other breed. All the Dobes that I have ever had have always been VERY affectionate dogs. The two that I have now are different in personalities but have many of the same characteristics.

My male has to always be able to see you whereas my female doesn't, she is a very independent dog in the house but likes to be buy you when outside. However, my female is the BIGGEST cuddlier I think I have ever seen, when anybody is sitting or laying down she wants to curl up into a ball on you or at the least either behind you or next to you. They both lean into you when you pet them and rest their heads on lap.

As for the water, they both prefer not to have baths but LOVE the beach. They won't go swimming but they will always run into the water and play in the waves or any other dogs that may be around (and it doesn’t take long at all for them to dry off).

Dobes are very loyal dogs and as well as smart. They need a lot of mental stimulation and are easy to train, but you need to be persistent with the training. They both have a short attention span, even when it does come to food. They can be very stubborn though, so you have to show them that you are boss otherwise they will walk all over you. They are great to have with you when you go for bike rides, walks, runs etc. They LOVE meeting new dogs (even the female when it comes to other females) and people; they are both extremely friendly but at the same time are very alert and quick to let you know when somebody is coming.

Another great thing I can say about the Doberman compared to my friends two black GSD is the shedding, yes the dobes do shed, but the hair is nothing compared to a GSD.


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