# Training session went awry



## LittleBear (Apr 1, 2016)

It's goose mating season (i think). I don't know much about geese, but what I've seen over the last 16 years of going to the same natural park, now's the time the geese are out and about, in good numbers and in pairs :wink2: Perfect training opportunity for me and Phoenix. Last year, around this time, Phoenix was excited for sure...but he was around 1 year old, par for the course, excitement in abundance lol. Great training opportunities, we'd walk past, safe distance mind you, I'd get him to focus on me, even the goose quacking was no issue. A couple of days ago, we're in our usual haunt, about 10 geese scattered about. Perfect, lets walk on by, nice heel, good focus...yup, I was over confident. Because, just about 30 feet away, there are two labradoodles, pulling like all get out (owners fighting to reign them in), barking and bent for chase...so I think, well, here I am walking nicely, certainly these people will control their dogs, because, well that's what you're supposed to do? Nope, these people let their dogs go! Massive chase ensues, and now the 10 geese are flying at me and Phoenix, with two labradoodles in hot pursuit. All I can think is "scatter!" Somehow we get out of the way, we kinda hopped over into the bushes lol, and I'm left wondering...what just happened?! Phoenix got an atta boy, and I gave my best death stare to the oblivious people and their poorly trained dogs...lol, like they even noticed!


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Somehow reading this the old Nintendo duck hunt game popped into my head. :smile2:


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

Hahaha!

I was the person with the poorly trained dog last night... we went to a park that had its floodlights on, a little local soccer game was going on... I knew it was going to be tough training with a game on but I thought it would be good to see how we get on... couldn't even get a 10 second stay before Kaiser was off like a shot to join in the soccer game... the men were all killing themselves laughing tho... so alls well that ends well I guess. I continued to train stays with my foot on the lead.


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## LittleBear (Apr 1, 2016)

Nigel said:


> Somehow reading this the old Nintendo duck hunt game popped into my head. :smile2:


Shoot, now there's a flashback! Hehe, only I wasn't gracefully jumping into the bushes...:grin2:


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## LittleBear (Apr 1, 2016)

KaiserAus said:


> Hahaha!
> 
> I was the person with the poorly trained dog last night... we went to a park that had its floodlights on, a little local soccer game was going on... I knew it was going to be tough training with a game on but I thought it would be good to see how we get on... couldn't even get a 10 second stay before Kaiser was off like a shot to join in the soccer game... the men were all killing themselves laughing tho... so alls well that ends well I guess. I continued to train stays with my foot on the lead.


Ha! I'd say "pup in training" not poorly trained :wink2: believe me, Phoenix and I are far from perfect! And no doubt, a soccer game is a huge distraction! But I bet your pup had a good little run :grin2:


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

If you knew more about geese, you wouldn't find this funny. Geese are nesting right now, and like most parents, they will go to great lengths to defend their young. And adult male goose can hid hard enough with its wings to break bone. If they can get the dog out into the water, they will try their best to drown it by climbing on its back, and forcing it underwater.

You were wise to get your dog out of the way!

Stupid dog owner - I have YET to meet a well-trained labradoodle! I know they MUST be out there, but I've yet to meet one. Must have something to do with the mindset of the owners, who will pay more for a mutt than for a dog from a reputable breeder!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I've often looked at the geese by the pond and thought, "how much fun it would be to let my big boy go and let him chase them into the pond". But that would set up an expectation to chase birds that I don't want to have to "correct" later. I bet the Lab/doodle folks just thought it would be harmless fun and the birds would escape to the water. I had no idea that a flock might actually attack the dog. 

When my boy was younger he had to learn that the neighborhood basketballs weren't his. The guy across the street wasn't spraying the hose for him. The fellow raking wasn't gathering leaves in a pile for him. To me it almost made me feel like a parent telling a happy child, "no you can't have an ice-cream cone before lunch". But it is for everyone's good to say no.


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## LittleBear (Apr 1, 2016)

car2ner said:


> I've often looked at the geese by the pond and thought, "how much fun it would be to let my big boy go and let him chase them into the pond". But that would set up an expectation to chase birds that I don't want to have to "correct" later. I bet the Lab/doodle folks just thought it would be harmless fun and the birds would escape to the water. I had no idea that a flock might actually attack the dog.
> 
> When my boy was younger he had to learn that the neighborhood basketballs weren't his. The guy across the street wasn't spraying the hose for him. The fellow raking wasn't gathering leaves in a pile for him. To me it almost made me feel like a parent telling a happy child, "no you can't have an ice-cream cone before lunch". But it is for everyone's good to say no.


It's amazing how some people see their dogs chasing wildlife as just harmless fun, I've seen dogs go after the deer, with owners not even making any attempt to recall the dog I get quite angry, but not much I can do. Phoenix and i have had to back-track a few times if we come across geese in the path...I may not know much about geese, but I know enough to keep my distance! Plus if they start quacking, I feel like I'm upsetting them, which I don't want to do. And I have more incentive to "say no"... I have two cats. Our GSDs are smart, but it would be impossible to say...chase this, but not that. Talk about confusing and inconsistent messaging! Just seems to me that the person who let her dog go after the pulling, barking, excited behaviour has just taught/reinforced to the dog that the behaviour is acceptable and will be rewarded (ie. you get let go, and get to chase).


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Sunsilver said:


> If you knew more about geese, you wouldn't find this funny. Geese are nesting right now, and like most parents, they will go to great lengths to defend their young. And adult male goose can hid hard enough with its wings to break bone. If they can get the dog out into the water, they will try their best to drown it by climbing on its back, and forcing it underwater.
> 
> You were wise to get your dog out of the way!


A goose, no matter how protective it is, is not going to drown or attack a dog like a GSD...maybe a small lapdog, but not a GSD-sized dog. Nor have I ever heard of one using its wings to break an animal's bones (at least not a gsd-sized animal). They encounter canine predators in the wild all the time, and the ones that survive more than a season are smart enough to avoid such threats, not confront them. They likely view most dogs the same way they view wild predators.




LittleBear said:


> It's amazing how some people see their dogs chasing wildlife as just *harmless *fun, I've seen dogs go after the deer, with owners not even making any attempt to recall the dog I get quite angry, but not much I can do. Phoenix and i have had to back-track a few times if we come across geese in the path...I may not know much about geese, but I know enough to keep my distance! Plus if they start quacking, I feel like I'm upsetting them, which I don't want to do. And I have more incentive to "say no"... I have two cats. Our GSDs are smart, but it would be impossible to say...chase this, but not that. Talk about confusing and inconsistent messaging! Just seems to me that the person who let her dog go after the pulling, barking, excited behaviour has just taught/reinforced to the dog that the behaviour is acceptable and will be rewarded (ie. you get let go, and get to chase).


I don't condone chasing or harassing the wildlife, especially out of season, but this situation did turn out to be harmless. And to some extent, most dogs have a natural inclination to engage in such behaviors....they are dogs after all. That's why many people use them for hunting and herding. 

The dogs in the OP's post should have been under control, I think we all agree on that. But let's not act like this was some horrible experience for the geese. The playful chase of a lab is nothing compared to the pressure they're going to face from predators out in the wild.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Ever seen a Canada goose up close? They are BIG!! The males average 14 lbs, and have a 6 foot wing span. And yes, a blow from a wing CAN break bone. Maybe not a full grown human's bone, but definitely a kid or a dog. 

The wings are their main defense They have bony spurs on their wings, and sharp claws on their feet. If they can drive the dog into the water, they will jump on its back, and beat it with their wings, trying to force it under the water and drown it. Their beaks are serrated like steak knives, and can rip skin badly enough that you'd need stitches.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Sunsilver said:


> Ever seen a Canada goose up close? They are BIG!! The males average 14 lbs, and have a 6 foot wing span. And yes, a blow from a wing CAN break bone. Maybe not a full grown human's bone, but definitely a kid or a dog.
> 
> The wings are their main defense They have bony spurs on their wings, and sharp claws on their feet. If they can drive the dog into the water, they will jump on its back, and beat it with their wings, trying to force it under the water and drown it. Their beaks are serrated like steak knives, and can rip skin badly enough that you'd need stitches.


Best guard dog my grandparents ever had was a gander. No one would get out of their cars until my grandfather locked him up.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

A GSD in water is no contest for a goose who belongs in the water. They do not always drown the dog by attacking, they wear the dog out by driving the dog away from the shore. They swim further and further from the shore, and then they prevent the dog from going back. The dog tires, and the dog can drown. The bigger the dog, the quicker it tires in a lot of cases. I would NEVER allow a GSD to go out into a pond or lake after geese.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Deb said:


> Best guard dog my grandparents ever had was a gander. No one would get out of their cars until my grandfather locked him up.


Goosey, goosey Gander, 
Whither do you wander?
Upstairs, downstairs and in my lady's Chamber.

And what did you there?
There I saw a bad man, who wouldn't say his prayers, 
I took him by the left leg and threw him down the stairs.

I love nursery rhymes!!!


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## LittleBear (Apr 1, 2016)

Dalko43 said:


> A goose, no matter how protective it is, is not going to drown or attack a dog like a GSD...maybe a small lapdog, but not a GSD-sized dog. Nor have I ever heard of one using its wings to break an animal's bones (at least not a gsd-sized animal). They encounter canine predators in the wild all the time, and the ones that survive more than a season are smart enough to avoid such threats, not confront them. They likely view most dogs the same way they view wild predators.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can confirm that no geese were harmed in the making of this story , I did however need to pull twigs from my hair after I landed in the shrubbery to avoid the mêlée of geese flying at me lol. I posted this in stories because I found it ironic that I'm working to proof heel and focus with serious distraction, meanwhile quite the opposite was going on elsewhere nearby. I think it's all good for pups to have fun, just maybe a bit inconsiderate all around by the other folks...I used the description oblivious before for a reason. I can't say whether the two labradoodles were playing or not, they didn't catch the geese. But, I highly doubt "drop it" would have worked, given the lack of training that I viewed.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Sunsilver said:


> Ever seen a Canada goose up close? They are BIG!! The males average 14 lbs, and have a 6 foot wing span. And yes, a blow from a wing CAN break bone. Maybe not a full grown human's bone, but definitely a kid or a dog.
> 
> The wings are their main defense They have bony spurs on their wings, and sharp claws on their feet. If they can drive the dog into the water, they will jump on its back, and beat it with their wings, trying to force it under the water and drown it. Their beaks are serrated like steak knives, and can rip skin badly enough that you'd need stitches.


I know they're big. I think you're overstating how powerful their wings are (which are also made of bone, and inherently light due to the fact they're used for flying). I highly doubt they'll break a big dog's bones. I also highly doubt they'll try to attack a dog with the size and temperament of a GSD. That's not how geese deal with canine predators in the wild, and a goose likely views a GSD no differently from how it views wolves and coyotes. Predatory canine teeth will easily trump a sharp beak and some flapping wings....no if's and/or but's about it.



LittleBear said:


> I can confirm that no geese were harmed in the making of this story , I did however need to pull twigs from my hair after I landed in the shrubbery to avoid the mêlée of geese flying at me lol. *I posted this in stories because I found it ironic that I'm working to proof heel and focus with serious distraction, meanwhile quite the opposite was going on elsewhere nearby.* I think it's all good for pups to have fun, just maybe a bit inconsiderate all around by the other folks...I used the description oblivious before for a reason. I can't say whether the two labradoodles were playing or not, they didn't catch the geese. But, I highly doubt "drop it" would have worked, given the lack of training that I viewed.


I'm glad your dog was able to maintain his heel in that kind of high-distraction situation...that's a challenge, even for the most obedient of dogs.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

We had a call for service yesterday, 2 pitts or pit mixes in a lake in a park. I found out the dogs were chasing geese into the water. Officers were able to rescue one dog, unfortunately the second dog drowned. I'm not sure if the geese were responsible for drowning the dog, but I can see where they would cause the dog to be exhausted in the water. Officers lost sight of the dog while bringing in the other dog. Our dive team did respond to assist and recover the body. I can certainly see the geese tiring the dog out, especially this time of year when they have goslings.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Wild geese that are acclimated to people (and our domestic animals) are nasty and dangerous during nesting season. When they have eggs in a nest, they don't run away - they charge directly toward. Either directly at the person, or directly at the dog accompanying the person, IME.

We have domestic geese. Every year several pair of wild geese show up and attempt to set up shop and enjoy the free room and board. I've been bitten more than once and so has my older dog - the wild geese have to be routinely encouraged to leave our barn and greenhouses in the spring (*without harming them - they are federally protected*) before they establish nests.

I've done a lot of dog training with someone who ran a goose management business, using teams of trained dogs. The stories are really something. If your dog doesn't have a rock solid call-off, you could find yourself in a very bad position on the water.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

When I was a kid we went on a row boat with my dad at the park. We had our dog- ginger with us a medium sized Benji type dog. A swan tried to attack her in the boat was chasing the boat just trying to get to our dog with vengeance. I just remember it being just crazy.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

WIBackpacker said:


> We have domestic geese. Every year several pair of wild geese show up and attempt to set up shop and enjoy the free room and board. I've been bitten more than once and so has my older dog - the wild geese have to be routinely encouraged to leave our barn and greenhouses in the spring (*without harming them - they are federally protected*) before they establish nests.


They're *federally regulated*, as there is an open hunting season for them in many states.

I've never heard of someone getting a nuisance permit for dealing with geese in my area, but I'd assume that if they were truly causing a problem for a landowner, a permit could be issued for lethal and non-lethal options, much in the same way that farmers can get permits to deal with nuisance deer, bear and other wildlife.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Dalko43 said:


> They're *federally regulated*, as there is an open hunting season for them in many states.
> 
> I've never heard of someone getting a nuisance permit for dealing with geese in my area, but I'd assume that if they were truly causing a problem for a landowner, a permit could be issued for lethal and non-lethal options, much in the same way that farmers can get permits to deal with nuisance deer, bear and other wildlife.


Yep! You can apply as a landowner, or HOA, etc. 

If you get a permit number (around here), the official recommendation is shaking the eggs so they are no longer viable, and replacing them in the nest. If you remove them, they'll lay more eggs and keep right on trying. But you need that permit.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Ok this is a video of a swan not a goose but from the videos it seems the geese act about the same although they are smaller than swans.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dalko43 said:


> I know they're big. I think you're overstating how powerful their wings are (which are also made of bone, and inherently light due to the fact they're used for flying). I highly doubt they'll break a big dog's bones. * I also highly doubt they'll try to attack a dog with the size and temperament of a GSD.* That's not how geese deal with canine predators in the wild, and a goose likely views a GSD no differently from how it views wolves and coyotes. Predatory canine teeth will easily trump a sharp beak and some flapping wings....no if's and/or but's about it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad your dog was able to maintain his heel in that kind of high-distraction situation...that's a challenge, even for the most obedient of dogs.


I think you are wrong. Geese on land will charge at animals the size of humans in a pinch, and we are a lot bigger than a GSD. In the water, all things are not equal. A goose just needs to sit and float. They will not tire themselves out in the water. A dog has to work to swim. Any size dog. And, they have almost no tools to employ on a water-bird. 

A goose is big, but when they spread out their wings, they look a lot bigger. And when they are screaming at you and coming forward, they are pretty darn intimidating. 

This whole argument is pretty silly really. We should not encourage people to let their dogs go after geese. Arguing that a goose won't bother a dog the size of a GSD might just get someone's dog killed.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Selzer, I agree. I don't see why everything ends up becoming an argument.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

selzer said:


> This whole argument is pretty silly really. We should not encourage people to let their dogs go after geese. Arguing that a goose won't bother a dog the size of a GSD might just get someone's dog killed.


You're right, this argument is silly. The chances of a GSD getting killed by a goose are highly unlikely. And no one was encouraging people to let their dogs go after geese. 

People need to stop blowing little incidents like this one out of proportion. The OP plainly said that no animals got hurt (geese or dogs).


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dalko43 said:


> You're right, this argument is silly. The chances of a GSD getting killed by a goose are highly unlikely. And no one was encouraging people to let their dogs go after geese.
> 
> People need to stop blowing little incidents like this one out of proportion. The OP plainly said that no animals got hurt (geese or dogs).


If a goose can wear out a pit bull, they can wear out a GSD in the water.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I saw a video on FB today that reinforces again what a BAD IDEA it is to mess with a goose!

Goose attacks ELEPHANT! If you look in the lower part of the video, you will see the goose's mate, likely incubating her eggs, which explains the goose's protective behaviour. You will have to scroll down a little bit to see the video.

https://www.facebook.com/NTDFunnyLife/?hc_ref=ARQ4qJ84j4HRYPM-0JgodMGvWdyf2qsRfJ-gxNIMNQWCH3Izl3VLYM_TutZaWUPuHEU


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

One of the barns where I rode as a kid kept geese as..uh...pets. Those things were BIG, highly aggressive, and trapped more than one adult in a stall. I don't think one can fully appreciate exactly how badass geese can be until you've seen them in action. I enjoy watching geese, especially when goslings are out and about (there's a gaggle that nests, year round, a few blocks away from where I live) --- but I make sure that there's at least 20 yards between us.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Sunsilver said:


> Ever seen a Canada goose up close? They are BIG!! The males average 14 lbs, and have a 6 foot wing span. And yes, a blow from a wing CAN break bone. Maybe not a full grown human's bone, but definitely a kid or a dog.
> 
> The wings are their main defense They have bony spurs on their wings, and sharp claws on their feet. If they can drive the dog into the water, they will jump on its back, and beat it with their wings, trying to force it under the water and drown it. Their beaks are serrated like steak knives, and can rip skin badly enough that you'd need stitches.


As a lifelong bird hunter, yes I've seen plenty of geese, alive and dead. 
I've also been attacked by a nesting goose.

Your hyperbole is bordering on fantasy.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

My brother punched a goose that was harassing him while he was jogging around a lake......tons of geese here.....maybe too many. The goose came flying at him with all the flapping antics...and I guess my bro just defended himself.....goose mellowed out......

SuperG


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