# Black Magic GSDs in California



## cwf (May 27, 2012)

Does anyone here have a dog from this breeder? If so, I'd love to know more about your dogs (temperament, size, health) and your experience with this breeder. I've heard all good things so far, but I'd really enjoy seeing some photos of her puppies as they matured. Thanks everyone! 

(I am specifically looking for soft temperment, oversize, old-fashioned type, "classic" black and tans, so this breeder suits my preferences, btw.)


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

OP,
I can't comment on Black Magic since I have no experience with them. I am not sure about wanting a soft temperamented dog. I have had them before and they are no fun to train because they get their feelings hurt so easily. One little correction and they shut down. However, you can find a very stable temperament and moderate drive in a well bred working line dog that will be a pleasure to live with. Just don't go for the super high octane competition type. 

If I wanted a large classic black and tan GSD with a rock solid temperment and a manageable drive level I would try to find a pup by Miky z Tresnaku. V-1 Miky z Tresnaku - German Shepherd Dog

From what I have heard, his pups are on the larger side and have super temperaments. 

Picking out the right dog is a tough decision so take your time and learn as much as you can about what is out there and what to look for.

Good luck!
Rob


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## cwf (May 27, 2012)

robk said:


> OP,
> I can't comment on Black Magic since I have no experience with them. I am not sure about wanting a soft temperamented dog. I have had them before and they are no fun to train because they get their feelings hurt so easily. One little correction and they shut down. However, you can find a very stable temperament and moderate drive in a well bred working line dog that will be a pleasure to live with. Just don't go for the super high octane competition type.
> 
> If I wanted a large classic black and tan GSD with a rock solid temperment and a manageable drive level I would try to find a pup by Miky z Tresnaku. V-1 Miky z Tresnaku - German Shepherd Dog
> ...


Thank you RobK. I do know exactly what I'm looking for. Black Magic seems to have my type of GSD. I'd just really like to chat with some Black Magic dog owners and see their grown dogs. I hope there are some Black Magic folks on this forum who will chime in, or PM me. Thanks for your response.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...rge-oversize-gsd-please-read.html#post2492546
Previous thread so that people see the discussion from before. 

Are there forums for people with large GSDs? ETA Did a quick google and did not see anything specifically for that...maybe someone else would know.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

You might want to look up a forum member here, "Doc", and talk with him. Since Doc's kennel is East Coast Black Magic GSDs, I imagine that there is some sort of relationship with West Coast Black Magic, and he'd probably know more about them than anyone else here.


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## cwf (May 27, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...rge-oversize-gsd-please-read.html#post2492546
> Previous thread so that people see the discussion from before.
> 
> Are there forums for people with large GSDs? ETA Did a quick google and did not see anything specifically for that...maybe someone else would know.


I don't think there's a need for a special forum for large GSDs. Large GSDs are STILL German Shepherd Dogs. Size, like color, temperament, purpose, is just one criteria within the breed.

That said, I was hoping, really, to connect with current owners of Black Magic dogs. I hope some are among the forum members.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

In the past there have been forums (don't know if they are still out there) for SL, DDR, etc, and that is where I would also go to look for information on those specific niches of dogs, just as I would search for similar if looking for a large GSD - like going to a source of information. I don't care about a "need" for it, if it existed it would probably be helpful to you. Since it doesn't, I guess you get to google more!

Definitely contact Doc.


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## cwf (May 27, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> In the past there have been forums (don't know if they are still out there) for SL, DDR, etc, and that is where I would also go to look for information on those specific niches of dogs, just as I would search for similar if looking for a large GSD - like going to a source of information. I don't care about a "need" for it, if it existed it would probably be helpful to you. Since it doesn't, I guess you get to google more!
> 
> Definitely contact Doc.


Thanks, Jean. I appreciate your opinion. I don't need to google, as I have already decided on a breeder, pending discussions with their previous puppy owners. I hope to find people who have Black Magic GSDs on this forum.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

cwf said:


> Thanks, Jean. I appreciate your opinion. I don't need to google, as I have already decided on a breeder, pending discussions with their previous puppy owners. I hope to find people who have Black Magic GSDs on this forum.


They've all been chased off. Sending you a PM.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Send me a pm. Black Magic has been breeding German shepherds for almost 40 years. FWIW, her dogs do not get their feelings hurt - just another slam by someone who knows absolutely nothing about her bloodlines. I know her dogs very very well. The dam line has been carried in the kennel for decades. If you want accurate information please pm me. I have Black Magic dogs and will be happy to refer you to other owners, many who have returned and purchased dogs because of their outstanding temperament, health, and brains.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Incorrect Doc. I never slammed anybody. I was very careful not to criticize the breeder nor her dogs. I merely questioned why someone would want a dog with a "soft temperament."


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

You made a blanket statement concerning "soft"temperament dogs. It is incorrect. Is there any question why the owners of soft, large German shepherds leave this forum? People who have never bred, raised, trained, and spent most of their lives among these large dogs are always quick to criticize.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

To the OP, have you been to their Facebook page?

Black Magic German Shepherds | Facebook


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## cwf (May 27, 2012)

Well I've decided against buying from Black Magic in California. Would anyone here who has a Walsh's Windy Acres dog please send me a PM? I'd love to hear from her previous puppy buyers. Thanks!


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

You might want to start a new thread with Walsh's Windy Acres as the subject line so people with dogs from that breeder will see your post.
Also, type it in the forum's search engine, the breeder has been mentioned on the forum before.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Royalair in Iowa breeds the big guys. Here's the link Breeding Oversized, Large German Shepherds. big dogs in the mid-west family. His pups all come from parents who are DM cleared and he lists the OFA hips rating. The parents are all AKC. He also has lots of information on the "old fashioned GSD". My GSD who is 30 inches tall and 131 lbs. wasn't bred to be that big. He is straight-backed. He was twice as big as the other pups, and I was warned by the breeder that he would be over 100 lbs. but he was, in her view, the best pup in the litter - friendly, outgoing, bold, good drive. I am very happy with him and I can understand why you would want one. Best of luck in your search.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Why don't you just get a pup from Doc? I bet he has the perfect puppy for you.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

Has anyone actually seen Doc and cwf in the same place at the same time?
Just a hunch.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

CassandGunnar said:


> Has anyone actually seen Doc and cwf in the same place at the same time?
> Just a hunch.


You think Doc & cwf might be the same person?  I bet they aren't.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> You made a blanket statement concerning "soft"temperament dogs. It is incorrect. Is there any question why the owners of soft, large German shepherds leave this forum? People who have never bred, raised, trained, and spent most of their lives among these large dogs are always quick to criticize.


Incorrect - Rob was expressing a personal opinion the same as the OP, just happened to have a different opinion than the OP - differing opinions are allowed. 

I've also deleted a few posts that were just general attacks and meant to incite conflict.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

They are not the same person. If anyone has some suggestions for cwf, please share them. These other tangents contribute nothing to the thread.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

CassandGunnar said:


> Has anyone actually seen Doc and cwf in the same place at the same time?
> Just a hunch.


I am not trying to sell pups on this thread or forum. I offered to help the op in finding what she is looking for. Whether you like it or not, I do know pedigrees of large German shepherds as well as many of the standard lines that go back to the 50s and 60s. After all, they came from the same source. I can trace my lines back to Horand like most responsible breeders.
I think it is real clear why so many have left this forum and others have stopped posting.
Your comment exposes your lack of knowledge and was uncalled for.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I posted my comment out of a genuine attempt to be helpful based on my own personal experience. It was not meant to be an attack. I have never attacked another person's dog or kennel. Lord knows my own dogs have had their own problems. When you make a post on a public forum you never really know who is going to see it or how it is going to be perceived. I am not perfect but I always try to be mindful of what I am writing.


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## cwf (May 27, 2012)

Doc said:


> I am not trying to sell pups on this thread or forum. I offered to help the op in finding what she is looking for. Whether you like it or not, I do know pedigrees of large German shepherds as well as many of the standard lines that go back to the 50s and 60s. After all, they came from the same source. I can trace my lines back to Horand like most responsible breeders.
> I think it is real clear why so many have left this forum and others have stopped posting.
> Your comment exposes your lack of knowledge and was uncalled for.


Thank you for your offer of assistance, Doc. I will take you up on your kind offer and if you do indeed breed oversized, soft tempered GSDs, I would be interested in considering your breeding program. I most assuredly will never be deterred by the posters on this or any other forum regarding my preferences in GSDs.
Quite obviously you are very experienced with, and well educated about the breed, and I appreciate your contributions and input. Thank you!


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

I don't think it is that either party is really inexperienced or unintelligent about the breed. The people against oversized simply prefer their dogs bred to standard.
While Doc and OP prefer and love oversized. Easy as that.
No more hostility, please people. It's discouraging and I know I would NEVER have stayed on this forum if my first thread had brought about this much bad blood. 

Cwf- Old World shepherds has a couple of dogs that LOOK similar in appearance to Black Magic's shepherds if you would like to also check them out. I have met one of their progeny and he was very sweet with everyone. Other than that I know nothing of them. Just an idea so you can look into all options


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

robk said:


> I posted my comment out of a genuine attempt to be helpful based on my own personal experience. It was not meant to be an attack. I have never attacked another person's dog or kennel. Lord knows my own dogs have had their own problems. When you make a post on a public forum you never really know who is going to see it or how it is going to be perceived. I am not perfect but I always try to be mindful of what I am writing.


I'm sorry you had bad experiences with soft temperament dogs. They did not come from Black Magic or her bloodlines. Although those dogs are over the standard in height and weight, they are not as big as other breeders who claim to have 140 pound German shepherds.
Being one of the few oversized breeders here, I have offered to help the op in her search.


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## luke4275 (May 23, 2011)

*reply*

We should all get pups from GSH rescues... they always have something fine..


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think since Doc has offered to help you (OP), you should take him up on his offer and if you can go meet HIM and meet his dogs, one of his may be just what your looking for and problem solved


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## cwf (May 27, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> Incorrect - Rob was expressing a personal opinion the same as the OP, just happened to have a different opinion than the OP - differing opinions are allowed.
> 
> I've also deleted a few posts that were just general attacks and meant to incite conflict.


 
The other posts which accuse two forum members of breaking the rules by creating false personas and of being the same person posting as two people, the posts which were left behind in your removal, are ALSO meant to incite conflict and are personal attacks. They contribute nothing to the thread, nor do they involve German Shepherds at all!

Why are those posts acceptable to remain, yet my post defending those owners who choose oversize GSDs against the repeated attacks of other forum members (see the other oversize threads for multitudes of those predictable and inciteful posts) was removed? 

Just curious as to how you decide what posts to block...objectively, of course.


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## cwf (May 27, 2012)

Emoore said:


> They've all been chased off. Sending you a PM.


Yes. Yes indeed they have all been chased off. That needs to stop. I won't be chased off by know-nothings with pedestals and loud voices. 

It's unfortunate the others have allowed themselves to be bullied. I suspect they themselves didn't have enough knowledge about, nor experience with, GSDs to be able to defend their interests against the attacks and insults of those with little knowldge or experience. I do, however. 

I would think the forum owners and ALL of moderators (some moderators here surely are wonderfully objective) would realize that increased membership here is actually good for this website. It will bring in advertising income, not to mention that it makes for a well rounded, fair and equitable forum, a better place for all GSD lovers.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Wondering if 2 people might be the same is not a personal attack. Especially since it is something that has happened frequently. Past history unrelated to this topic or particular posters, but rather to situations on the board where a couple posters take a stance of "them against the world" means that similar situations may raise suspicions. One person said it, but others may have been thinking it. 

So the better way to deal with that is exactly what was done... letting the comment stand, but then shooting it down immediately with a very clear public statement from an Admin (me) who has access to IP addresses confirming that there is no duplicate account, so people can just drop that train of thought entirely.

Unfortunately, moderating is never black and white but always shades of gray and things must be taken on a case by case basis. The moderator did the right thing by leaving that comment since my response was already there. And definitely did the right thing as well by removing other posts that were far more serious violations.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Since the OP has been given contact information for people who can assist in the puppy search, and there appears to be no interest in discussing the actual original topic of this thread any longer and it has now become little more than a soapbox about all that is perceived evil with this board and it's membership and moderators, I am closing this thread.

-Admin


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