# Tugs



## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Hi there,
I have been searching Leerburg site looking for a good first tug for Jake. He is 7 months old....I plan on visiting the ScH club next month be regardless I want to get him a good tug that will last and I will use for a long time.

He is going to be a big boy and I am unsure of size and if it should be rolled jute or one that is one that is flatter like a fire hose. Please help!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

For a training tug, the rolled jute is better as they can get a better grip on it. If you want to use it as a play/chew toy, then the fire hose one is better.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I have a couple of firehose tugs and my dogs will retrieve them but neither of them are that interested in actually tugging them, they're too hard. 

They like linen tugs, but Halo managed to blow through one in only a couple of uses, so I sent a picture to the company and they replaced them for free with suede, which both dogs love and have so far been very durable. Here's where I got them: Fullgripgear by Rufflife

I like the two handled ones, and you can order them with any color handles you like.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

My tugs are French linen and suede. My suede one is the best, it's small and has two handles. The suede is rolled, not stuffed, so it's pretty hard and not very thick.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I prefer the french linen over any other materials. Jute is a bit hard on the dog for constant tugging, firehose is slippery and the suede will get slimy. The french linen(synthetic) stands up over time and works well for many stages.
Gappay
two handle tugs Hallmark K9 - Premium Dog Training Equipment - OB Synthetic
My favorite ones are from Hallmark K9


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

This is what Halo did to her linen tug:










:wild::wild::wild: And thats DURING tugging, I had the tugs put away in a pack that I took to training with me, totally out of reach of the dogs.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

What brand is that? I would return it...I've been using the same tug for several months and it has held up fine to Karlo.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I did - see my post above, it was Full Grip Gear. Well, I didn't actually have to send it back, I emailed them a picture and they replaced it, along with the other one which was starting to go too - I had bought two at the same time. 

They recommended trying a different material for the replacements, either the fire hose or the suede, and I picked suede because they don't like to tug the fire hose ones that I already have. 

She is a one dog demolition derby!


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Ok, is there anything else I should order to get started? I am also looking into a small tracking club here to get started.....do I need a harness for Jake at 7 months? If so what is the least expensive one I can buy if I will need to replace it when he is an adult?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If you are SchH tracking, a flat collar or fursaver should be fine.
In SchH we only use the harness for protection work.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I don't want to sound ignorant but what is a fursaver?
I am unsure if the tracking club I found does ScH tracking, does it matter at this point? What are the differences other than the length of the lead? In ScH you use a 33 ft?? I sent them an email to inquire, they are a small club here in town and I thought it would behove us to get started because we haven't done anything yet. Will or could it confuse Jake?


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## Uniballer (Mar 12, 2002)

jakeandrenee said:


> I don't want to sound ignorant but what is a fursaver?


Basically a choke chain with really big links so it doesn't damage the hair at the neck. It is the preferred trial collar for schutzhund (dead ring only, of course).



> Will or could it confuse Jake?


If you want to do schutzhund tracking then you should start tracking with schutzhund people. A well-trained schutzhund dog can do OK at AKC tracking, but most dogs trained to pass a TD track will not do well at all in schutzhund tracking. The schutzhund judge expects the dog to follow the track much more closely and maintain a more even pace than is expected by the TD(X) judge. So the training methods are different because of the difference in the judge's expectations.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Oooh, fursaver, that is what you call them? Just learned a new word today 

*jakeandrenee, the collars my dogs are wearing is what they are talking about. I prefer these typ of collars over any other collar out there. 

As for the tugs, I usually get them from Schweikert. I got the linen and the jute one. 

*


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Upon my research on the page they have offered TD and TDX, so I am looking for TD tracking exclusively?

The nearest ScH is 2 hours from here so I figured it would be a good thing for Jake and I to get started and get some exposure for a few months....I plan to take him in Oct to be evaluated at the ScH club.

There are no ScH folks in my area.  so I am looking for creative ways to learn close to home....suggestions? comments please.....I don't want to screw this up but we are BORED....


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I just reread the post...and TD is NOT the same? What can I ask the club president here? They offer private tracking also....maybe that is a better way for us to go? What specifically should I ask????


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If you are going to a Schh club, stay with the "program" if you feel comfortable with the TD and others that are training. 
You should be able to tell by watching the dogs enthusiasm with their handlers if this will fit your goals or not. 
I wouldn't bob around with training. Stay consistant and go with one method, decide on what you want to do with your dog, so you don't waste precious time or have to redo some foundation.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I understand. I guess I am trying to find a way to get "started" by utilizing a resource really close to home (local tracking club), and get Jake using some mental energy. I guess I need to consider the reality of ScH being 2 hours away and if that is really feasible. I certainly don't want to redo foundation work or waste time, which is exactly the way I feel right now.


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

Leerburg has a lot of good equipment, but for tugs I really like Elite K9. By far the most durable tug I have used is the flat rolled leather tug and elite K9 Police K9 Equipment - BITE SLEEVES, BITE SUITS CANINE, WORKING DOG, MILITARY, POLICE, EQUIPMENT, is much cheaper than Gappay rolled leather tug. 
Active Dogs Activedogs.com -- Working Dog Equipment, Service Dog Vest and Harness, Dog Vest has a nice selection of jute. I have a very hard jute tug from them that my older dog really likes

As far as TD and TDX training - the foundation is the same. I much prefer the schutzhund foundation tracking even for AKC tracking as it promotes the dog focussing on the primary scent. If you decise that schH is right for you and your dog, at least you have a decent start with tracking andnot having to re-do a lot.

No other clubs in your area? Did you try all the schutzhund clubs like DVG America, Schutzhund USA, GSDCA_WDA? You may want to post or check out the workingdogforum.com or Leerburg forum about other clubs near Huntsville.
Good luck


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

No clubs here, the closest in 2 hours away....which is a shame. I know another person very interested as well just can't find someone local to mentor us on the basics.


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

Renee'

One option i have done with my pup is to also read Tracking from the Beginning by Gary patterson. Then decided to implement what he writes in the book ad a beginning starting point. For example I am doing the 3 trench part with the pup now and he is doing really great. Just about ready to go to the next step. I think there are several top Sch trainers that have there own method that works and if you read and understand what they are asking you to do you could start what they have for a method. You might want to ask the club which method they track with first so as not to confuse your pup.


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## Uniballer (Mar 12, 2002)

I trialed in Gadsden, AL some years ago and remember the locals telling me to be careful if I used food on the track because of fire ants. Will this be a problem in Huntsville? This may also have an impact on your training.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

It very well could be....yes we have fire ants! I will be asking the club pres about it Sunday.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

The tug came in today, I went with Jane's suggestion and got a Gappay Ob one.....he loves it.....we worked on the heel and some sitz/stay and platz/stay and lots of out! It's a tad smaller than I thought (no room for his sloppy bite) but we are working on that! 
Any suggestions how I can get him to "hold" it?

I should mention that when I threw it he was faster to fetch it and return it to me then ANY other item(balls, frisbee, or sticks). I find that confusing. It was like he wanted to bring it to me!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

jakeandrenee said:


> I should mention that when I threw it he was faster to fetch it and return it to me then ANY other item(balls, frisbee, or sticks). I find that confusing. It was like he wanted to bring it to me!


That's a GOOD thing! Maybe he's more interested in bringing it back to you than a ball because when he does he can interact with you with it. I know in agility classes they really wanted us to use a tug to reward our dog rather than something that we would throw _away_ from us for the dog to retrieve. I struggled with that because Dena was obsessed with tennis balls, but not much of a tugger. If he'll tug AND retrieve with it, even better! 

Our trainer said she likes smaller tugs, she thinks it easier for the dog to target the right part of the tug if there's not so much room between the handles (and your hands!) Part of it is teaching the dog to target the tug properly, (and you'll probably get bit a few times in the process), and part of it is learning to present it properly to the dog so he doesn't have to reach off to the side to get it, and maybe getting your knuckles in the process.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I never had Karlo out the tug when he was younger. I would let him hold it, we played tug, I'd run away from him and he usually would follow me with it, sometimes spitting it at my feet. He isn't real possessive with a tug, he'd much rather interact with me. If I want him to out, I hold it close to his muzzle(not using the handles) at knee level, and make it "dead". Most of the time it works, but if he is ramped up, he tends to be harder to out.
I only use the french linen tugs for training, it is not a toy just to play with, so it holds a higher value than the cuz or other toys we play with. I use the Gappay balls, too for training only.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

In the area I live we have no trainers to help with teaching me how to present it correctly or help Jake to target except for the club two hours away and I am trying to get there soon. The trainers here do very basic OB and that's about it... Any suggestions? Good video's?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Michael Ellis on Leerburgs site
has some good clips, you can purchase videos from there too.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Ditto on the Michael Ellis stuff. Our trainer is Lisa Maze, his business partner breeding working Belgian Malinois (Loup du Soleil) and she also works with him at his training school here in the Bay Area. My homework before we met for the first time was to watch as many of those videos as I had time for.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Have been on the site....BUT there are so many videos it's overwhelming. Any in particular that stand out?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Leerburg Streaming Video
I would start with the puppy ones, maybe watch the tug videos/fear period ones are interesting too. I subscribe to leerburgs site and get the video clips as they come out.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Ok, I will check out the free streaming ones! Thanks for the tip. There are so many videos I want but I could never afford to have them all so these little clips will help Jake and I a ton. How do you subscribe?


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

Another option of videos is to try Ivan Balbanov, since I read Michael Ellis's website he learned his training method from him. I got my Ivan videos from Agility Narcotics Detection Patrol Dog Herding Tricks Training Videos Dog Training Aids . I enjoy the videos that i have watched so far more than any from Leerbug which is personal choice. Also Ivan has his own website Dog Training Videos - Online Dog Lessons where also rents small clips to focus on one part of training. Along with a forum to discuss topics with him.


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