# Stormfronts Brawnson police dog



## GSD_Dakota

Hey...
I was wondering, what's the story about the Stormfronts Brawnson dog anyways? That dog is related to my dogs mom, I looked at the Pedigree database. I was talking to someone about Police dogs and awesome dogs and stuff and they were like 'Stormfronts Brawnson is a legend!' so thats when I looked, remembering seeing it and he's on there alright.
On Deviantart, someone said 'Wow.. a lot of famous dogs in Dakota's bloodlines' or something like that, but I had no clue. 
Apparently, he has a lot of titles and was with the Swat k9? Can someone tell me about the dog if they know about him OR send me links based on him if there is any? thanks!

P.S I wasn't sure which place to put this topic in


My dogs bloodlines- Line-breeding for the progency of Northern k9 Blue and daisy vom kloakenwasser

Stormfronts Brawnson- '00&'02 WPO CHAMPION Stormfront's Brawnson


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## carmspack

a Canadian bred dog with Czech , DDR and WGWL pedigree.
Outstanding working dog . Outstanding competition dog. 
Ideal temperament.

This contribution from friend Mike Russell who was involved in a co-operative breeding of Carmspack Kohl , her last litter. 
Kohl , a solid black female was allowed all and any testing that Mike R, and Diehl , and even Rinus Bastiaansen could dish out . She , Kohl, had produced working police dogs for me - but since she herself had no titles thorough testing was part of the evaluation before being allowed to breed to Brawnson. Impressed everyone - proclaims - harder than many males -- and so she was bred.
The majority of the pups were registered to and stayed in the US under the von Damonhunden name , two came to Canada as my share and they were registered under my kennel name. SG Stormfront's Brawnson - 2000 & 2002 WPO Champion SchH3 DPO2 FH2 KKL2 lbz Narc/Patrol/SWAT K9

Mine were a sable female Kris and a solid black male Tyko.
Carmspack Tyko Bravo von den Dämonhunden 

the litter stats for hips ranged from excellent , good , one fair , one borderline (?) (did not follow up) --- my two , female good , male , crying shame fail on one hip , one elbow .

I can only comment on the two that I am thoroughly familiar with.
The male , Tyko -- everything you would want . Calm, openly friendly, very masculine striking look and good conformation-- drives good and strong in fight drive -- surprises the decoys because he is such a "normal" dog . The female Kris , orthopedics good hips and elbows , but was not an improvement nor a match to her mother Kohl or to what Kohl had previously produced with my own males.
Kris kept on back burner . Never bred . Much shorter life span -- developed spinal problem . Her brother Tyko with his hip and elbow races around with vigour . You would never know he had any problem , so much so that x rays were done at two and I believe again around 6? just in case -- . So for me -- Brawnson was dead end line.
Tried again buying a Brawnson grand progeny --- did not work out , testicle problem . 

For firy drive Kohl's son Kato seen on Linda Shaws site was what I expected Shawlein Fine Art & Purebred German Shepherd Dogs 

this is a Brawnson combination that I would have been very interested in Xago vom Schafer see because of the DAM's side of the pedigree -- Orex Schwarzen Brink ! outstanding tracking 
*Linebreeding - 5 generations*



5 - 5............................................. in VA 3 Bernd vom Lierberg 
4 - 3............................................. in V Drigon vom Fuhrmannshof 
5 - 4............................................. in V Enno vom Antrefftal 
5 - 4............................................. in V Cella zu den drei schönen Puppen 
5 - 4............................................. in V Racker vom Itztal 
5 - 4............................................. in SG Vefa vom Kirschental
 those bloodlines in Orex are what I have in my kennel. Had things worked out that is where or how my Brawnson progeny would have been used in breeding program



​ ​


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## carmspack

no matter what a dog is on paper you have to deal with the dog in front of you . previously you said of your dog "
Dakota is an awesome guard dog. When she sees a dog in our yard, or someone she doesn't recongize, or something that looks creepy she barks and snarls at the window. Hackles are spiked up down her back, tail up. She runs to the door and barks at it, until I hold her back and tell her its alright.

one thing. She gets terrified of blow up pool toys, and in our back yard, if she sees a dog she barks at it from a distance(on the other side of the fence). Her tail is up with other dogs, but if its a blow up toy, her tail is inbetween her legs and shes fear aggressive"


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## Blitzkrieg1

I have a granddaughter of Brawnson through a son Stuka. She is about 8 months now.

Pro's:
Plenty of Prey / posession loves to bite anything. I could reward her with stick, hose, ball, tug whatever.
Love her structure, nice bone and size on her 
Fairly social (especially off property)
Quick recovery if something startles her (doesnt shut down or go into complete avoidance usually will go and check out the unknown whatever)
Very handler/helper hard, NOT a soft dog so far
Very aware of her environment 
Seems fairly confident on most surfaces I have tried her on. (wasnt a fan of tables or benches but with minimal coaxing was up and doing some tug on a couple or taking food)
Great grip/entry on the bite
Uses her nose a lot
Barks like a male

Cons:
-Is dog reactive (fear) though once she meets the dog she will play with no further issues. Doesnt like horses either (amish ones trotting by).
-Has some issues settling in the house, but that could be her age. (This has been improving with certain management techniques)
-Had a bad fear stage as a young pup 8weeks-12weeks, though she did a 180 with some age and exposure to various stimuli
-Is sharp on our property (not off) (hackles barks but will meet people and becomes friendly) especially at night and also towards people acting out of the norm at night. Have yet to figure if this is a nerve issue, maturity related or her age. (She may be in another fear stage)


Her age makes it hard to be definitive on what she is and isnt especially nerve wise. She seems to be a bit of a late bloomer in some ways so only time will tell.

I will be doing pre lims in a couple months so hopefully all is well there. Currently racing around on icey hills and jumping all over me and everything else with no signs of discomfort.


Here is a vid of her learning to bark for the tug and doing some grip work in a crowded room full of people, she was like this the first time she came in to work no hesitation doing prey work with a stranger. 





 
Her pedigree

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2034933-tazmania-von-den-sportwaffen


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## DaniFani

Pedigree is only part of the puzzle, if pedigrees predicted exactly what a dog will be then there would be no "surprises" in temperament/conformation in litters, and every breeder would be world champion producers and police departments wouldn't have such terrible times finding suitable GSDs.

Pedigrees provide a wonderful road map/blue print of what you can hope for....if what carmspack quoted you as saying is true, I wouldn't put a whole bunch of weight on one "awesome" dog in the pedigree. Just because there is a "legend" (very subjective and over-used term in my book lol) in the pedigree doesn't mean much, especially when the dog in front of you is what it is and there are waaaay more pieces to the pedigree, and how all those pieces mesh is also a variable. Also as Carm said, seems like there can be some awesome dogs, but if they aren't passing those genese down strongly, and producing/reproducing strong dogs...doesn't mean much if they are in the pedigree. I have NO idea about these lines, just speaking in general here.

Just love your guy for who he is, are you planning on breeding or something? Otherwise, don't put so much weight on his pedigree, it seems to me it can make people have these crazy expectations for their pups and then be disappointed when their dog isn't some killer police dog machine.

On another note, I would work on stopping the things you view as "excellent guard dog material." Going insane just because a non-threat is walking down the road isn't good for him....why teach him he needs to be on guard over complete non-threats, being physiologically and psychologically stressed for absolutely no reason...especially if he's fearful of complete non threats, like those stupid blow up Christmas thingys ( I hate those lol), and complete non-threat inanimate pool toys. 

It could be that his genetics are completely sound, but you've created these semi-nervy behaviors (or what some would view as nervy behaviors) by giving him the impression you like it. Saying "It's okay, everythings okay" while possibly stroking/petting him, in his mind translates to "oh, mom likes it when I do this." And now he does it all the time....including with the inanimate objects, just a thought.

What I did with my previous dog that acted like this sometimes is put him in a "down/stay" anytime he started acting like that, giving him a "safe place" and not doing the whole "it's okay, everything's okay" talk when he starts barking. It seems that this can sometimes amplify and increase the reaction, leading to bleed over in other areas...."oh, you like when I bark at people walking by the house? Then I should bark at everyone I see walking out and about too!" Kind of thing. Or you may like the fact that he barks at things, in which case...never mind. :-D

Personally I think the silent, observant, dog, is much more threatening than the neurotic one that is going berzerk for no reason (talking dogs in general here, not yours specifically). Something about that intense GSD stare that just gets me. ;-) Sorry to go off topic, just commenting on what Carmspack brought up, which is your dogs personality and comparing it to the bloodlines/pedigree.


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## Blitzkrieg1

My pups breeder who owns Stuka and knew and used Brawnson said he was exceptional. (Bad @ss ---- his words) 
Also said that not all the females he was bred to where strong physically or in temperment. 
Theres a lot of rumors that he throws bad nerves/hips but then there's Stuka out of an Asko daughter and some others. Perhaps he is one of those studs that only gels well with a select few females? 

Saw an interesting litter for sale on PDB. Terror vd Staatmacht x Brawnson grand daughter.


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## DaniFani

Blitz and Carm, I've heard that a lot of Czech lines seem to have more reactivity and sharpness than other working lines (just thinking on some of the things on your lists Blitz). Is this your experience? Is it a fair generalization for most Czech lines, or only some lines/combinations and not others? I know that's a loaded question, my guy is West German and I'm just starting to be able to recognize a lot of the West German names. NO idea about Czech.


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## Blitzkrieg1

I cant answer you honestly as I feel it will take another year to have a good idea what she is if she passes her pre lims. In some ways she is very social, I trust her with my kids and at playgrounds, meeting strangers, guests in our home, with my lap dogs, in public etc.

Then she hackles at some guy messing around in his car at night in the parking lot or barks at my neighbor and her little white dog as they are coming out of their house. 

Is this nerves or her natural development based on her genetics? I would definitely say she has a lower threshold then a lot of dogs I have seen. At my IPO club the more experienced members often say that Czeck dogs are sharper and can be nervy..

I had a czeck/SL female before her that was a complete nervebag. Aside from the dog reactivity no similarities. She could not be trusted with children, guests, or out in public at all. She attempted to bite on several occassions senior citizens and children. Was quite soft and very fearful..nothing good about that dog aside from her looks.


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## carmspack

well I have to admit , as I have done so before , that I just do not know enough about Czech bred lines , nor with all my tenacious attempts to get facts , fail to any . When Czech pedigrees come up for discussion the discussion tends to end . Cliff provides information via PM's which is a shame as the information is never brought out to the light to be examined , accepted, challenged , corrected. 

Personally having owned a few Czech imports , and blends including Cherokee v d Wolfen . I did not see anything super special . Definitely not the genetic obedience part being so willing and available to work / anticipate in co operation . More commando type - give an order and they will do it . The keen thinking required of a herding dog was just not there . Historically and genetically they were not chosen for herding genetics , so selection determined results , much as selection for show determines results. In the case of the Czech dogs the selection was still for a positive work dog , no compromises there .
What chocked me was the accelerated aging . Side by side with one of mine , a 12 year old "mine" looked and acted (s) (still with us) younger and brighter than a 6 or 7 year old "Czech" dog .
Same diet , same environment . Like looking at time lapse photography. Got me puzzled to the point where I had deep discussions with a research scientist friend specializing in genetics , epi-genetics (the external forces which create a gene response which can be passed on through generations)contributor to genomic studies, and working on telomeres which determine longevity. He came up with an interesting speculation. He wondered if Chernobyl and the wide casting radiation could have damaged genetic material .

Experiences , rambling , lot to cover.
People would look at a pedigree , example my Case , mother of Gus and others (PSDs) Carmspack Case . They see Xero Pohranicni Straze and then say she , Case , is a nice Czech dog. NO. Even the sire of Case, Iwo , has little Czech as Xero himself has linebreeding on great DDR lines - which bring in Bernd Lierberg through the Himpel breeding , and Bushecke and Stephanstal (tracking!) Gomo vom Schieferschloß more DDR on the Grim , Xero sire side. 
When I bought Iwo I was particularly interested in his dam and her genetics , having followed that litter combination . Blenda's "brother" (repeat litter) Tarek was KNPV met lof ---- at a young age - with a large point margin over the second place ... consistently , and he was a working police dog of note in New Jersey , and a stunningly good looking dog. The Blenda pedigree brought in some tough , rugged , dogs . Exactly what I am interested in . 
so Iwo , genetic obedience - nah -- new category -- butt head . Even so his first generation progeny had it and second generation represented by NICHOLAS had it in spades -- glaringly obvious - Nick and his brother and again all 3 in a repeat of Nicholas . high thresholds , not an ounce of handler aggression or nerviness -- body and attitude like a brick outhouse . Nothing would shake this dog . Prey drive -- oh brother -- no ball / play whatsoever - no rag , no tug . Had power-decoy address him - high threshold , and then bango- who woke you up dog. Full , hard , from the core . On , then off . Never had any health issues whatsoever (which I expect) , not one soft stool , even after digging up chicken carcasses we had to bury after a power failure , extended time in record breaking heat wave --(city garbage would not take it) . Not so much as a burp!
Always looked polished and buff . remember this for later -- Tested him on a female , my breeding so very familiar with the pedigree in many dimensions - hoo - good results !!! and the combination has never failed even as we depart from this combination . 
LSatovs female Journey shares this pedigree Carmspack Sumo where you can see Iwo layered in twice , and new Czech lines through Colin Malemi who also goes back to some olde ddr faves.

So having used Iwo strategically and having sons and daughters to carry on with I placed him with good friend and long time GSD person , Sheena of FraserGlen GSD . There he became more of a house-dog enjoying the company of the two resident GSD's . Perfect health, sired a good litter Fraserglens Moto . Then I get a call - dog is suddenly unwell -- days later deceased , inspite of all efforts , hemangiosarcoma -- no warning , no intervention would have had a different outcome. That was a heart breaker.

The Cherokee Wolfen dog --- Shepherd Glen K9 - German Shepherd Breeder - Cherokee x Shepherd Glen K9 - German Shepherd Breeder - Fani --- came to me with a BH , Brevet and SchH ready --- lot of problems - which I put to training and too early SPORT conditioning --- handler aggressive - you had to watch yourself , low thresholds, easily stimulated , not so clear , took aggression far to much into play , but it wasn't play ! had hard time settling . Very dog aggressive . Small dogs were quarry , and even male GSD were attacked . I did not expose my dogs to her after that . Very vigilant management . Although I paid well for this female I never bred her - 
Blitz , the one thing that I would recommend to you is to take a break from sport development with your dog and let him/her age out a bit first .


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## GSD_Dakota

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I have a granddaughter of Brawnson through a son Stuka. She is about 8 months now.
> 
> Pro's:
> Plenty of Prey / posession loves to bite anything. I could reward her with stick, hose, ball, tug whatever.
> Love her structure, nice bone and size on her
> Fairly social (especially off property)
> Quick recovery if something startles her (doesnt shut down or go into complete avoidance usually will go and check out the unknown whatever)
> Very handler/helper hard, NOT a soft dog so far
> Very aware of her environment
> Seems fairly confident on most surfaces I have tried her on. (wasnt a fan of tables or benches but with minimal coaxing was up and doing some tug on a couple or taking food)
> Great grip/entry on the bite
> Uses her nose a lot
> Barks like a male
> 
> Cons:
> -Is dog reactive (fear) though once she meets the dog she will play with no further issues. Doesnt like horses either (amish ones trotting by).
> -Has some issues settling in the house, but that could be her age. (This has been improving with certain management techniques)
> -Had a bad fear stage as a young pup 8weeks-12weeks, though she did a 180 with some age and exposure to various stimuli
> -Is sharp on our property (not off) (hackles barks but will meet people and becomes friendly) especially at night and also towards people acting out of the norm at night. Have yet to figure if this is a nerve issue, maturity related or her age. (She may be in another fear stage)
> 
> 
> Her age makes it hard to be definitive on what she is and isnt especially nerve wise. She seems to be a bit of a late bloomer in some ways so only time will tell.
> 
> I will be doing pre lims in a couple months so hopefully all is well there. Currently racing around on icey hills and jumping all over me and everything else with no signs of discomfort.
> 
> 
> Here is a vid of her learning to bark for the tug and doing some grip work in a crowded room full of people, she was like this the first time she came in to work no hesitation doing prey work with a stranger.
> 
> Tazmania vd Sportwaffen Bitework - YouTube
> 
> Her pedigree
> 
> Tazmania von den Sportwaffen




Lol! That's so weird. Dakota basically does ALL the pros you listed, ALL. I'm serious. 
The cons, yes, basically all but not the fear stage or settling in the house.


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## GSD_Dakota

DaniFani said:


> Pedigree is only part of the puzzle, if pedigrees predicted exactly what a dog will be then there would be no "surprises" in temperament/conformation in litters, and every breeder would be world champion producers and police departments wouldn't have such terrible times finding suitable GSDs.
> 
> Pedigrees provide a wonderful road map/blue print of what you can hope for....if what carmspack quoted you as saying is true, I wouldn't put a whole bunch of weight on one "awesome" dog in the pedigree. Just because there is a "legend" (very subjective and over-used term in my book lol) in the pedigree doesn't mean much, especially when the dog in front of you is what it is and there are waaaay more pieces to the pedigree, and how all those pieces mesh is also a variable. Also as Carm said, seems like there can be some awesome dogs, but if they aren't passing those genese down strongly, and producing/reproducing strong dogs...doesn't mean much if they are in the pedigree. I have NO idea about these lines, just speaking in general here.
> 
> Just love your guy for who he is, are you planning on breeding or something? Otherwise, don't put so much weight on his pedigree, it seems to me it can make people have these crazy expectations for their pups and then be disappointed when their dog isn't some killer police dog machine.
> 
> On another note, I would work on stopping the things you view as "excellent guard dog material." Going insane just because a non-threat is walking down the road isn't good for him....why teach him he needs to be on guard over complete non-threats, being physiologically and psychologically stressed for absolutely no reason...especially if he's fearful of complete non threats, like those stupid blow up Christmas thingys ( I hate those lol), and complete non-threat inanimate pool toys.
> 
> It could be that his genetics are completely sound, but you've created these semi-nervy behaviors (or what some would view as nervy behaviors) by giving him the impression you like it. Saying "It's okay, everythings okay" while possibly stroking/petting him, in his mind translates to "oh, mom likes it when I do this." And now he does it all the time....including with the inanimate objects, just a thought.
> 
> What I did with my previous dog that acted like this sometimes is put him in a "down/stay" anytime he started acting like that, giving him a "safe place" and not doing the whole "it's okay, everything's okay" talk when he starts barking. It seems that this can sometimes amplify and increase the reaction, leading to bleed over in other areas...."oh, you like when I bark at people walking by the house? Then I should bark at everyone I see walking out and about too!" Kind of thing. Or you may like the fact that he barks at things, in which case...never mind. :-D
> 
> Personally I think the silent, observant, dog, is much more threatening than the neurotic one that is going berzerk for no reason (talking dogs in general here, not yours specifically). Something about that intense GSD stare that just gets me. ;-) Sorry to go off topic, just commenting on what Carmspack brought up, which is your dogs personality and comparing it to the bloodlines/pedigree.



She doesn't bark at people walking down the road, only if some one is walking TOWARDS or house or is in our yard. She doesn't bark when out walking either, she isn't a very vocal dog unless she feels the need to be. I don't tell her when to bark and when to not, when she DOES bark, that's when I go and look and surely enough someone is coming. 
She isn't being bred either lol, i just wanna learn about Brawnson.


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## carmspack

forgot to mention this Czech dog that I thought was totally impressive -- reminded me of Tetley , one of my foundation lines built for herding genetics , B D and G Lierberg , Racker , Marko heavy --
in body type and working style. Flawless temperament -- seamless entry into the mid of my household -- I wish I had her from puppy hood . I wish I had her much longer than I did . Another heart break . Still get saddened even thinking of her . Just over a year of getting her she developed an oral cancer , on the jaw line --- could not be saved ---- hhhh , VELMI DOBRA Kety Betkin Dvor -- Emir her sire , totally impressive.


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## DaniFani

carmspack said:


> well I have to admit , as I have done so before , that I just do not know enough about Czech bred lines , nor with all my tenacious attempts to get facts , fail to any . When Czech pedigrees come up for discussion the discussion tends to end . Cliff provides information via PM's which is a shame as the information is never brought out to the light to be examined , accepted, challenged , corrected.
> 
> Personally having owned a few Czech imports , and blends including Cherokee v d Wolfen . I did not see anything super special . Definitely not the genetic obedience part being so willing and available to work / anticipate in co operation . More commando type - give an order and they will do it . The keen thinking required of a herding dog was just not there . Historically and genetically they were not chosen for herding genetics , so selection determined results , much as selection for show determines results. In the case of the Czech dogs the selection was still for a positive work dog , no compromises there .
> What chocked me was the accelerated aging . Side by side with one of mine , a 12 year old "mine" looked and acted (s) (still with us) younger and brighter than a 6 or 7 year old "Czech" dog .
> Same diet , same environment . Like looking at time lapse photography. Got me puzzled to the point where I had deep discussions with a research scientist friend specializing in genetics , epi-genetics (the external forces which create a gene response which can be passed on through generations)contributor to genomic studies, and working on telomeres which determine longevity. He came up with an interesting speculation. He wondered if Chernobyl and the wide casting radiation could have damaged genetic material .
> 
> Experiences , rambling , lot to cover.
> People would look at a pedigree , example my Case , mother of Gus and others (PSDs) Carmspack Case . They see Xero Pohranicni Straze and then say she , Case , is a nice Czech dog. NO. Even the sire of Case, Iwo , has little Czech as Xero himself has linebreeding on great DDR lines - which bring in Bernd Lierberg through the Himpel breeding , and Bushecke and Stephanstal (tracking!) Gomo vom Schieferschloß more DDR on the Grim , Xero sire side.
> When I bought Iwo I was particularly interested in his dam and her genetics , having followed that litter combination . Blenda's "brother" (repeat litter) Tarek was KNPV met lof ---- at a young age - with a large point margin over the second place ... consistently , and he was a working police dog of note in New Jersey , and a stunningly good looking dog. The Blenda pedigree brought in some tough , rugged , dogs . Exactly what I am interested in .
> so Iwo , genetic obedience - nah -- new category -- butt head . Even so his first generation progeny had it and second generation represented by NICHOLAS had it in spades -- glaringly obvious - Nick and his brother and again all 3 in a repeat of Nicholas . high thresholds , not an ounce of handler aggression or nerviness -- body and attitude like a brick outhouse . Nothing would shake this dog . Prey drive -- oh brother -- no ball / play whatsoever - no rag , no tug . Had power-decoy address him - high threshold , and then bango- who woke you up dog. Full , hard , from the core . On , then off . Never had any health issues whatsoever (which I expect) , not one soft stool , even after digging up chicken carcasses we had to bury after a power failure , extended time in record breaking heat wave --(city garbage would not take it) . Not so much as a burp!
> Always looked polished and buff . remember this for later -- Tested him on a female , my breeding so very familiar with the pedigree in many dimensions - hoo - good results !!! and the combination has never failed even as we depart from this combination .
> LSatovs female Journey shares this pedigree Carmspack Sumo where you can see Iwo layered in twice , and new Czech lines through Colin Malemi who also goes back to some olde ddr faves.
> 
> So having used Iwo strategically and having sons and daughters to carry on with I placed him with good friend and long time GSD person , Sheena of FraserGlen GSD . There he became more of a house-dog enjoying the company of the two resident GSD's . Perfect health, sired a good litter Fraserglens Moto . Then I get a call - dog is suddenly unwell -- days later deceased , inspite of all efforts , hemangiosarcoma -- no warning , no intervention would have had a different outcome. That was a heart breaker.
> 
> The Cherokee Wolfen dog --- Shepherd Glen K9 - German Shepherd Breeder - Cherokee x Shepherd Glen K9 - German Shepherd Breeder - Fani --- came to me with a BH , Brevet and SchH ready --- lot of problems - which I put to training and too early SPORT conditioning --- handler aggressive - you had to watch yourself , low thresholds, easily stimulated , not so clear , took aggression far to much into play , but it wasn't play ! had hard time settling . Very dog aggressive . Small dogs were quarry , and even male GSD were attacked . I did not expose my dogs to her after that . Very vigilant management . Although I paid well for this female I never bred her -
> Blitz , the one thing that I would recommend to you is to take a break from sport development with your dog and let him/her age out a bit first .


Carm, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Very interesting. Your first couple thoughts/sentences align with what some of the aged/experienced handlers and TD's I know seem to think.


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## gagsd

I have a daughter of Stormfront's Brawson out of Tara Wildenbrusch. I got her at almost 7 years of age.

Stable temperament, take her anywhere type of dog. Looks at people walking past the yard and sometimes barks, but easy to call off and appropriate.
I met her and took her home with no problems.
BUT..... she demands respect. If you try to manhandle her, particularly people that are not "hers," a person is liable to get hurt. The vet clinic learned this after I asked them to let me hold her for a procedure and they declined. 
Attractive, longhaired, feet have become a bit platter-like as she ages (13 this year). OFA Good hips and normal elbows.
Super tracker, very strong working on stock. Obedience is not flashy, but solid.


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## carmspack

yes , it is like a lead shield , impenetrable . This is why I never contribute to those threads. I do NOT know. Not going to go around and repeat advertising promotional stuff . I see a lot of dogs at work in the various agencies --- ???? some good, some outstanding , some not deserving the overall blanket endorsement "Czech" dogs get . Ketty Betkin Dvor very quickly became a heart dog for me . She did have one litter as I imported her bred to male of my choice Bad Derik , which was to strengthen links to Arthus Lunsholz and to bring in Alf Lablapega , whose brother AKut, a male I owned is on many of my pedigrees.
Bad Derik Bad Derik to VELMI DOBRA Kety Betkin Dvor -- sum of all parts Line-breeding for the progency of Bad Derik and VELMI DOBRA Kety Betkin Dvor

the dogs that were homed earlier had a different result than "some" of the dogs that stayed behind -- which burned up all my available time and attention to socializing them, including putting 3 crates into the van to go up to Port Perry and take them for a stroll in a small village with a lakefront with a ball diamond, kids playground and of course water craft of all sorts. 
The funny thing was that I could take a male , that I kept , Remir - in honour of Emir , and Tyko , the son of Brawnson and Kohl and put them side by side and pass them off as brothers. Type, character , disposition .
Once again , sadly , started getting reports from owners notifying me of their dogs passing ---- should not have been -- too early . I lost my male this year , bone cancer . 


Litter had some impressive animals including a striking Emir type bi colour who was a pussycat yet a monster with his fight drive . I had many well into adult hood as there were difficulties and in end complete failure to get paperwork successfully completed - so no registration on 11 pups -- refunds for all !


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## carmspack

ms Dakota -- one of your threads asked if the dog had weak nerves.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...386018-meet-dakota-sable-german-shepherd.html

in general I think people responded as if this was a very young pup - less than a year old . Please do correct me if the information is wrong but your dog is almost 2 years of age and you have had her for 18 of those months .
At this point this strange fear with things in the environment should be well passed, as would any stages where the dog may be in a fear period. Sometimes females go a bit off balance first time in season .

here is your pedigree Line-breeding for the progency of Northern k9 Blue and daisy vom kloakenwasser

looking at the pedigree in total , Stormfronts Brawnson has a very minor contribution. Closer exam of the pedigree show much more contribution from Sagus / Greif and Fero .

so was the dog sold with attention drawn to Brawnson?


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## hunterisgreat

I have a Brawnson grandson out of Stuka. Trained with a few people who knew Brawnson personally, and Stuka. 

Someone told me Brawnson had a reputation for breaking forearms when on the job.


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## gagsd

hunterisgreat said:


> I have a Brawnson grandson out of Stuka. Trained with a few people who knew Brawnson personally, and Stuka.
> 
> Someone told me Brawnson had a reputation for breaking forearms when on the job.


I was told the same thing. Maybe by Mike??? Something like 50% of his 100+ street bites.
My SB grandson has VERY hard bites and very fast strikes.


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## lhczth

A good friend of mine trains with Mike and used to work Brawnson. Said to this day he is the hardest biting dog he has ever worked. I was lucky to get to see Brawnson in both training and in trial. He was a very impressive dog in all ways. Super super tracking too. 

I would contact Mike if you want to know about Brawnson. His current street dog is also a Brawnson son. He told me he is the best dog he has had as a partner. 
Diehl's K9 Training LLC


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## hunterisgreat

gagsd said:


> I was told the same thing. Maybe by Mike??? Something like 50% of his 100+ street bites.
> My SB grandson has VERY hard bites and very fast strikes.


Same here. People are really impressed by my SB grandson's biteforce. He has a very wide head.


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## carmspack

just want to add since this is an issue with many people contemplating working lines as family dogs ---- All of the Kohl to Brawnson litter were very easy to live with, reasonable dogs --- very happy to be good family dogs not over the top or hyper active at all --- no dog aggression ! no handler aggression -- forgiving , handler hard in a positive way .
Where ever Tyko goes he gets attention and loves it .

I would try to add Brawnson to my genetics again - with or without Kohl. someone in my area imported a line bred Brawnson son through Pongo Enckhausen . I really wanted to see this dog . Friends who had the opportunity to see him said he was outstanding . The person who had him though sold him on . He was notorious for not holding on to dogs and liked dogs that were clearly sharp . doubled on Brawnson bringing in Bernd


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## hunterisgreat

lhczth said:


> A good friend of mine trains with Mike and used to work Brawnson. Said to this day he is the hardest biting dog he has ever worked. I was lucky to get to see Brawnson in both training and in trial. He was a very impressive dog in all ways. Super super tracking too.
> 
> I would contact Mike if you want to know about Brawnson. His current street dog is also a Brawnson son. He told me he is the best dog he has had as a partner.
> Diehl's K9 Training LLC


Who is his current street dog? Someone was telling me he had a SB son or grandson that was not gonna be a top sport prospect but was the best street dog he'd ever seen.


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## gagsd

Carmen.... And that is what I like best about my SB grandson. Family reunions and holidays the kids can grab Ari and go play. He never jumps on them, never takes a toy from their hands. Just perfect manners.... now the adults he will absolutely mug for a toy. LOL!


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## hunterisgreat

gagsd said:


> Carmen.... And that is what I like best about my SB grandson. Family reunions and holidays the kids can grab Ari and go play. He never jumps on them, never takes a toy from their hands. Just perfect manners.... now the adults he will absolutely mug for a toy. LOL!


Yeah my SB grandson is the easiest dog to live with, and also the one I'd prefer to have at my side when transiting a sketchy area or situation.


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## carmspack

very important to me !!

I believe the street dog is Kutter -- I think Lee ms Wolfstraum had mentioned him before?


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## gagsd

hunterisgreat said:


> Yeah my SB grandson is the easiest dog to live with, and also the one I'd prefer to have at my side when transiting a sketchy area or situation.


I think I have said it before, but Ari has made grown-ups stop in their tracks and walk away with a look. Never a growl, hackle or bark. Just the look.

I LOVE him. One of those really special dogs. Wish I had his mother from a younger age.


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## hunterisgreat

gagsd said:


> I think I have said it before, but Ari has made grown-ups stop in their tracks and walk away with a look. Never a growl, hackle or bark. Just the look.
> 
> I LOVE him. One of those really special dogs. Wish I had his mother from a younger age.


Yeah Jäger turns people away with the motionless stare. People are just extremely unnerved by his presence. Dogs tend to respect his space as well. I've only seen him hackle a few times in his life. Once was when a 200+ lb boar walked up to my back sliding glass window... he full on hackled then. Couple other rare occasions


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## holland

My friend owned a Brawnson daughter-used to let me take her for training-she was a fun dog-who was Brawnson-breeder?


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## lhczth

*Kutter vom Landesberg. He is on Mike's site under males. 
*


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## carmspack

as far as I recall the breeder was a Canadian in Saskatchewan??
this Brawnson was his only venture into working dogs - total fluke , never did one before and to my recollection never again .

trying to contact person who told me this but have not received an answer yet to confirm.


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## holland

carmspack said:


> as far as I recall the breeder was a Canadian in Saskatchewan??
> this Brawnson was his only venture into working dogs - total fluke , never did one before and to my recollection never again .
> 
> trying to contact person who told me this but have not received an answer yet to confirm.


Isn't that kind of odd...and if you bred a dog like that why wouldn't you keep him...


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## carmspack

the guy was a ASL type breeder . Don't ask me ! I guess he didn't know what or how to proceed , and didn't intend to continue with this type of dog , or wasn't his market . 
When Kohl was bred to Brawnson there was a great heated debate going on whether Brawnson had "it" or was "made" through superior training and handling . Brawnson had it - no doubt , proved it on the field and on the street -- , AND Mike Diehl trained and handled him to perfection for the field and the street . Credit to both.
Without Mike D's involvement Brawnson would have been another obscure working police dog . There was a lot of bitching about his hip rating which was OFA fair . I wish people would learn that OFA fair rating is a subjective grade within the NO dysplasia evident range . The other consideration with this grading is that Brawnson was advanced mature , and with years of strenuous police service work , when the hips were x rayed for certification. 
Mike D has more than proven himself to be an outstanding trainer and competitor.


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## carmspack




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## wolfstraum

hunterisgreat said:


> Who is his current street dog? Someone was telling me he had a SB son or grandson that was not gonna be a top sport prospect but was the best street dog he'd ever seen.


Kutter Landesberg

Kutter vom Landesberg

According to Mike, he is more his mother than his father....I had planned to breed to him with Csabre a couple of years ago and a huge winter storm got in the way....never managed to get that breeding done....

Lee


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## carmspack

I was wondering if anyone can fill in the gaps in the Brawnson information -- did he have littermates? , when did Mike Diehl get the dog ? Wonder if there are other littermates working but obscure because they did not have the exposure opportunity that Diehl gave the dog (deservedly so)
I can't remember the breeders name but can visualize some of his other dogs -- still waiting to hear back from person who would know this. 
When Mike Russell and I used Brawnson there were a lot of detractors of the dog. I wonder if he had carried a foreign kennel name if there would have been a difference . So much carry on about the dog being "made" or propped by Diehl's skills , and so much about his hips . 
We ended up putting a lot of energy into defending Brawnson .


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## lhczth

Brawnson was not a made dog. Mike and those he trained/trains with just brought out the talents that were inherently in the dog. Mike tends to chose dogs to work that genetically are who they are and then molds those genetics to do what he needs the dog to do. 

I may be wrong, but I think Brawnson had an SchH1 when Mike got him. I could find out easily enough though anyone who is interested could just contact Mike. He is a super nice guy and very easy to talk to.


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## lhczth

I actually considered breeding to Brawnson at one point. His tail female line-out was exactly the same as my first schutzhund, Treue. Unfortunately in my area we did not get to see very many good Brawnson kids and the one super nice female that trained with us ended up having bad joints. I tested a litter out of a Czech bitch by Brawnson that was awful. Very high hunt drive and their environmental nerves were fabulous, but they wanted nothing to do with the tester (me) to the point of avoidance. I had never seen a litter so unwilling to engage with people. 

I know there were much better Brawnson kids in other areas. We just didn't get to see them. 

Speaking of Kutter. Mike had a really nice bitch puppy by him at one point. No idea who she was out of, but this was one darn nice puppy. With the right bitch, he could be a good male to use. 

Nate Harves male Stuka is also a nice dog (Brawnson son and sire of Hunter's male). What impressed me the most about him was how clear he was off of the field. Little kids hugging on him and petting him.


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## lhczth

According to the WinSIS (which I still haven't updated since getting my new computer), Brawnson's dam produced 2 other dogs competitive in SchH. Darius and Dillon. They were by a different male. Darius was in Canada and made their WUSV team. Dillon was in the states.


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## GSD_Dakota

carmspack said:


> ms Dakota -- one of your threads asked if the dog had weak nerves.
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...386018-meet-dakota-sable-german-shepherd.html
> 
> in general I think people responded as if this was a very young pup - less than a year old . Please do correct me if the information is wrong but your dog is almost 2 years of age and you have had her for 18 of those months .
> At this point this strange fear with things in the environment should be well passed, as would any stages where the dog may be in a fear period. Sometimes females go a bit off balance first time in season .
> 
> here is your pedigree Line-breeding for the progency of Northern k9 Blue and daisy vom kloakenwasser
> 
> looking at the pedigree in total , Stormfronts Brawnson has a very minor contribution. Closer exam of the pedigree show much more contribution from Sagus / Greif and Fero .
> 
> so was the dog sold with attention drawn to Brawnson?


It's been a while. I just remembered this old account of mine. Excuse this VERY late response...

Anyways, Dakota is now two years and 6 months. Great with people, doesn't bark at people walking by unless someone is actually showing some sort of threat, isn't bothered by blow up toys anymore(I trained her to not care for them), she has absolutely no environment problems and is always aware and confident. My only problem with her is she doesn't really have a willingness to please. She does stuff with or without reward. ****, the dog is my trusty sidekick and loves me but she just doesn't get all excited over praise. High prey drive, but has an 'off' switch. I would say she's a great dog overall . Her sense of snell is insanely good. Infact, she is find on every kind of surface. 

I'm 13 years old, and I wish to become a good GSD breeder and trainer.


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## joeglad

*Razor*

My dog Razor is Related to Brawson as well 
Line-breeding for the progency of Idol von der alte baum and daisy vom kloakenwasser


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