# Excercising a dog on a lunge line?



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Anyone done this?
What do you think?
How do you do it?

I am thinking it would be handy to have in the skill kit because when we travel we may not have options for off lead running plus in the neighborhood the terrain is not condusive to a bike and I am too slow to run with him at a trot. We play a good bit of ball and that is at a gallop and we try to go out into the woods most days.

But I live on a quiet cul-de-sac and early in the am would be a nice time of day to work him on a line.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I was interested in the same thing; I actually started doing it partly unconsciously when playing with the flirt pole. I didn't want him doing any sudden stops or jumps and so ended up employing a lunge method from my experience with horses.

My flirt pole is the perfect length for our backyard, I stand in place and swing the toy around my body and Delgado follows in an easy run. I usually do 3-4 laps then allow him to catch the toy, we play for a few moments then we start again but circle in the opposite direction.

It's a good workout, 10-15 minutes takes a good edge off his energy especially in the summer when it's hot. Then it's time for fetch, obedience, etc. and maybe a hosing off to finish off. You can control the speed and the circle is big enough he's not cramped in his running style. There's no sudden stops and it's a continuous motion so IMO it's pretty safe for short periods

I think it's easiest to give the dog something to chase and just control the environment. I'm not sure of any other way you'd get a dog to run circles around you without you running alongside or otherwise encouraging. I certainly wouldn't use a lunge whip


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

The lunge whip might be good if you use it to push the dog out, certainly not cracking it. Even when I lunge my horse I really don't have to do more than hold it in certain positions for him to know what I want.
I think it might be a good idea to burn off energy if done properly.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

My only concern with using a lunge line would be the continued force on the limbs at the angle the dog would travel. I suppose if you could train your dog to go to the end of the lunge line and use the full length, it would be less force on the limbs. 

I know that when I use the flirt pole and/or a toy on a rope, I get concerned because the amount of force on the limbs the dog travels when making that arc.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

kiya said:


> The lunge whip might be good if you use it to push the dog out, certainly not cracking it. Even when I lunge my horse I really don't have to do more than hold it in certain positions for him to know what I want.


True, I just don't see myself being comfortable using one. I've used them for horses to get them going but I could just see Delgado giving me a "what the heck?!" look if I tried to push him with it. He'd probably either bite the whip thinking I was playing or just refuse, and we'd both end up frustrated

I'd rather use a toy to entice but that's just my personal opinion and style


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Although I do think it would be cool to see a dog trained on a lunge line. Now, I'm thinking if it could be done...like a horse. Hmmmmm interesting challenge.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

I have done it with my Border Collie, and I'm trying to get Frank better at it. 
I use it when we go to shows. I can get them out find a spot and get them to work off the extra energy that built up during the long drive.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

So, Franksmom, give me some technique ideas (assuming no whip) as mine really needs to get his yayas out sometimes.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

No whips, needed. It's a game for us, all fun, they can't do it wrong, I start with them next to me, and I have a toy, I turn as they chase the toy. I have made myself dizzy so many times, I'll go one way for a while and then the other way. I give a command as they learn to go around me, and encourage them to keep going. As they get the hang of going around me I let more line out and decrease the sight of the toy. With my border collie I can slap my leg and say "Lets go" and as I turn he'll run at the end of the line around me. They must see it as a fun game, because after a while they really don't look for a toy at the end of the game as a reward. I only use it when I see they're so full of energy it just can't be contained, and I'm somewhere I can't throw their ball off lead. 
My BC picked it up right away, Frank has been harder since to him a long line means tracking time which he loves, but he's learning I think it makes them feel good to get their legs stretched especially after a long ride.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

forgot to add, I dont' make them run only at the end of the line, if they bounce or jump as they're running that's fine. as long as they're moving around me and NOT pulling away form me.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am not looking for precision, Just excercise so that would be fine!


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Since you live on a cul-de-sac, you might try this. If there is a center with a curb this technique worked for me. Put the dog on a leash and walk with the dog on the street and you on the curb. if the dog comes up on the curb you tell him "no, out". When he will consistantly stay off of the curb, put him on a flexi and step further away from the curb and correct for coming on the curb. I also added my herding directional commands to this (come by for counter-clockwise and go away for clockwise) the curg gives a good visual to the dog for understanding during the teaching phase. You move toward the center of the cul-de-sac and the dog learns how far away he is supposed to go. Once the dog has developed a feel for it, you can phase out the curb and move to a more open area.

If you don't have the curb, you can use traffic cones. Place the cones in a square if you only have four, or in a more circular pattern if you have more. I set a ball on the first one, and with the dog on a flexi let him get it while I stand at the last cone. If your dog will do a sit-stay you put your dog at the last cone while you move more toward the middle and release him to get the ball. The you start the dog at the last cone and put the ball on the second cone, and so forth. Add your commands, and keep moving the ball forward. Keep your circle small until the dog will go all the way around without cutting in, then make it bigger a little at a time.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Interesting. I think he would have fun with that. This may take me some time. I may want to go ahead and nail my directionals first. I have general sweeping for winderness......but would like to make them more specific and plan to get together with a teammate who is good at that..........

No curb. Cones would be a good purchase though....


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## Ursula (Jan 19, 2013)

heyhey,
Surely enough we Germans thought about that a while ago.
I remember talking to a trainer about that back at home, years ago...

There are even pages about that:
Longieren mit Hund

Surely enough it is in German, but I hope google translate might be able to help you with this  
basically they start on the line and then during training are doing this w/o line... 

It is a very physically and mentally demanding training the way it is done in Germany and I did it once - years ago- with my Mom's West Highland White terrier and he benefited GREATLY from that training! 

here a video I found






Hope I could help!
Y


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I did some on a lunge to teach a dog directions "ground work" before hitching a dog up to a cart - and later a sled . Left , right, around (clockwise) around (counter clockwise) - wait , forward.

transferred that later to around blinds, around parked cars , buildings , sheds as part of search - Campagne .

used it as fun - sent dogs around the house, stopped them half-way sent them around the other way ! 

I like this idea with the reverse round pen -- horses are easy to drive out , dogs will tend to want to come in closer to you .


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Haha-I remember when I was in college as a camp counselor. .....we were on a canoe trip and I saw a mule down by the river. I told the kids to "watch this" and starting yelling gee gee gee gee and made him walki in a nice little circle.

They were amazed but when I was a kid I used to ride my great-uncles old plow mule some (which was a working mule) and all I had was a feed sack (the saddle) and it was all "gee, haw, giddup, whoa, come around" .....

It is good....talked with a teammate who is good to help me with directionals then I think we will be ready. He actually seems to like/thrive on mental games and they wear them out, too. She has a cat who is dog savvy so we and I am taking Beau up for a visit anyway because I am thinking of getting an outside cat and, based on his reaction to loose cats, I think he will be fine.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Check out Monty Roberts 'the Horse Whisperer' for his techniques on lunging and breaking/training horses.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

- Pat Parelli said it is not about mindlessly having the horse run around to get more fit , but to exercise the horse's mind to get a more obedient horse in a better mind-set before you ride. Work done on ground , not in saddle .

here is a video to show what lunging is for those with no idea . 



 
I have horses , low spook gaited horses - Rocky Mountain and the other registry Mountain Pleasure since one is a Rocky Mountain x Paso Fino cross . 

I have attended Monty Roberts seminars and Pat Parelli , Gary Convery , and we have a certified Parelli instructor a 10 minute drive away . At that facility , friends of mine that bought my foals for trail riding, there is a Native American from USA , that brought up a herd with old kept genetics from remaining gaited , ambling , "native ponies". Sat through a seminar of this woman's horsemanship skills . I am in awe of her ability.
Seminars given by a level 3 Parelli instructor are given there .

so same as the horses not just running mindless circles putting some purpose to them , directional , is a good idea , otherwise fence running would do the trick.


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## Ursula (Jan 19, 2013)

Hey! Glad to see another gaited horse person! I am coming from Icelandics  

I am also coming from classical dressage (not to be mistaken with the dingdongs that misuse dressage to make $$$$ and use Rollkur and such other abusiv emethods ;-) ) and we are using Lunging to actually teach our horses to access their hind quarters and learn to pick up their back to teach them the moving patterns that will allow them to carry riders in a more effective and biomechanical correct manner. 
Horses are not naturally inclined to bend and the forces on their extremities, if not running in a circle while bending correctly, will cause long term damage to their legs. (Without stringing the horse up with all those crazy lines and crap one can purchase these days) 
It is another way of lungeing with different thing sin mind ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEzPMvtsmDA

There are a billion different opinions on lunging horses and even more theories, books and techniques, but like with everything else in the animal training world: the more gimmicks and the more toys to need to get where you want, the more caution I would use, since most things CAN be trained by positive reinforcement and with just the simplest things ;-) 

But to be honest, training a horse on a line is absolutely not comparable to training the dog on a line. 
So these are totally different approaches. 
While the dog sport is about communication and attention and focus building the horse part is more about physical strengthening and behavior modification... 

Yayy for horsey people!
Y


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I sorely miss my friend Gary who passed away all too soon. He ran Pleasure Valley . Coming from the halls of big corporate business Gary used a lot of his gift for persuasion and co-operation in seminars for stressed out business managers to have different , non-conflict dynamics back at the office. When he was in the round ring or even a wide open field he would have those horses lunge , no bridle , saddle , sticks, whips , no equipment other than the hat on his head and his eyes, body and arms.
He put my horses under saddle , went out for a 35 mile ride, no bit , just a halter and my DownUnder saddle .

Now then, he did own some dogs that he loved to bits and as fantastic as he was in understanding the soul of the horse, boy oh boy , those dogs took advantage of him, made a monkey out of him.

Horses and dogs think opposite . Prey . Predator.

Nothing as relaxing as a glide ride on a soft ambling gait. 
Don't be fooled . They look relaxed but they step out. When I went on those trail association rides with the quarter horses and the appendix thoroughbred crosses , on a soft walk we were often so far ahead that we had to stop and wait for the rest to catch up.

He had Icelandics. The business is run by his wife and I see them in the fields , as recent as last Friday - saw some of my horses that he bought , content .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

For plain old exercise my friend who is the professional sled dog racer had built himself a giant size "Victoria wheel" like these , Martin Busser's version







back in pre-Victorian days dogs produced power - turnspit dogs ran in a "hamster wheel" .

Jocoyn how about something like this -- and when you come back from shopping there is enough power in a battery to get you that cup of tea or coffee Woof Driver - All About Rolling with Your Dogs

HoundRound Dog Exercise Wheel

OR use your treadmill


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The $500 dog treadmill is looking pretty good (rain rain rain) but we do a lot of fetch too. I am sure the HOA would simply love doggie wheel in the yard! 

The lunge things I have seen though are in line with the use of traffic cones (Andaka) and the video (ursula). I truly like the idea for travel though of using the lunge...and Ursua's video show so much.

Well...In my younger years I did learn how to sit the trot deeply on a horse on a lunge. Bareback, Leaning back as I recall. A bit scary.


GUESS I need to play with the google translator -- there are a number of sites on how to do this lunging! Ursula gets my gold star of the day!


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

carmspack said



> Horses and dogs think opposite . Prey . Predator.


I think you are not fully correct. Ever try to catch a stray dog. It is definitely in flight mode like a horse. A dog can be prey and predator. Watch any aggressive dog stalking a fearful one and you will see prey and predator behavior.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

horses have an opposition reflex QUOTE"
The opposition Reflex was first discovered as the *Freedom Reflex* by the 1904 Nobel Prize winner, Ivan P. Pavlov (1849-1936). Opposition Reflex is a survival instinct that is passed on from birth as an instinct. This is also called *Thigmotaxis \Thig`mo*tax"is* � This is the response of an organism to physical contact when touched by a solid or fluid substance; it will either be positive or negative Thigmotaxis. When the movement is away from the touching body, it is negative Thigmotaxis. When the movement is towards the touching body, it is positive Thigmotaxis . An example of positive Thigmotaxis is the wall-hugging behavior in mice. This is also seen in horses running in a fenced area. Watch a horse run along a fence line, they will follow the fence, they will run the fence line into a corner and if no corner is there, they will continue to follow the fence. This fence hugging behavior is positive Thigmotaxis. This is why an experienced and knowledgeable horseman will never stand on the fence line, especially when a horse is running in a panic, fear or flight mode. However, many ignorant horse people will tell people to stand by the fence when a horse goes into a panic or stampede run. Positive Thigmotaxis moves toward the contact much like a foal stays or is drawn to its mom and wants to maintain contact with the mother to secure basic survival needs. Negative Thigmotaxis move away from the contact much like a horse tries to pull or retreat when first squirted with a hose and water. Water is pressure, touching and stimulus, so until a horse is taught to accept it or ignore it, it will instinctually try and oppose the pressure. Earthworms have a high degree of positive Thigmotaxis since they borrow in the ground as the move and live. Knowing and understanding that opposition reflex is a reflexive action and is *involuntary* will help people to understand a horse better and not blame or label the horse. Seeing the world through a horse's eyes is critical to understanding problems and issues. In humans, you can see a reflex action when you touch something hot. You will pull away immediately without thinking about and if someone tried to hold your hand in fire, you would pull away even harder and fight with all your might. Pain may be the primary motivator to pull back, but survival and reflex is also in play.
Although opposition reflex is not a learned response, I think it is reinforced by the behavior of the herd or by other interactions with predators, humans or other horses. Opposition reflex is a self-defense method provided and ingrained by Mother Nature. Confusion, frustration, anger, fear, pain, pressure and humans can trigger the reflex. Opposition reflex can trigger things from the horse like rearing, biting, pulling, tail swishing, bucking, and running off, striking and other behaviors. If you do not understand or know about opposition reflex, then you will confuse some horse behavior as bad, mean, disrespectful and other crazy labels that people want to pin on horses. Trust and understanding will help prevent this reflex from surfacing in a horse. It you don't understand this concept you can't understand why the horse does what it does"

dogs instead of backing away have the opposite , pulling into , putting pressure "
* QUOTE" Opposition Reflex, Why Dogs Pull*

This is an interesting topic:
In the dog training world, “Opposition Reflex” is a term used to describe why a puppy first resists the tension of the leash by stopping, fighting, or pulling away. When tension is applied, a dog’s predatory instincts of fight, freeze or flight kicks in. Many people don’t realize dogs have this reflex or they believe a dog stops or pulls out of spite or challenge.
To see opposition reflex in action just put a leash on a cat. That’s opposition reflex! It’s stronger in most other animals, probably the more wild or the more predators they are the stronger the reflex, Thankfully, dog’s have been domesticated and puppies are fast learners and through conditioning, patience and trust, this reflex diminishes.
Opposition reflex plays a role initially, but the main reason dogs continue to pull is that the owner allows it and the dog is greatly rewarded for doing it. Dogs that pull on a leash think the harder they pull, the more they get, even if it means choking themselves in the process. The other reason dogs pull is owners never showed them, in a language they understand “how to” walk on a loose leash. And the final reason dogs learn to pull the leash is because they go faster then we do. Our fastest walk is to them a very slow waltz. It can be frustrating for a dog to stay at our pace.
People make the mistake initially when getting a new puppy by placing it on the ground and following it around. Once the puppy can tolerate the collar and leash, the owner then allows the puppy to pull them everywhere. As the puppy grows and gains more pulling strength, most owners make the mistake of putting these nice, humane, harnesses (that you see on sled dogs), along with a tightly held leash or retractable leash (that causes dogs to pull) allowing opposition reflex and the pulling behavior to really kick into gear.
Leash pulling can easily be avoided or stopped altogether with a little time and knowledge.Pulling back or jerking (to correct the dog’s forging) only makes thing worse, increasing or reinforcing the opposition reflex. The more you pull, the more the dog pulls. The more the dog pulls, the more you pull. Learn more about training, behavior, and canine reflexes at <A href="http://www.caninebehaviortraining.com/">http://www.caninebehaviortraining.com


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## Ursula (Jan 19, 2013)

Fantastic answer! 

Especially about the pulling/ harness/ Flexi Leash stuff! 
Flexis are a no-go! 

Y


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this looks like fun !


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

It really does but I am trying to decipher it may not be a good thing for an independently working search dog I got from the wiki on it but it was a rough translation....


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