# First off leash dog encounter with my 20 week GSD...It just had to be a bird dog



## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

I've been around plenty of pointers. Very high strung dogs....While taking Bane walking in the pasture tonight, I noticed a guy running his 3 bird dogs off leash across the pasture......I first noticed them when they were probably 1/4 mile away.... I kept on our side of the creek....Bane spotted them, and he sit and just watched them... I got him walking again, but he kept paying attention to them........I was trying to get moving before one of them spotted us....I failed....One of the pointers finally spotted us and the handler knew what his dog was up to at this point.,..He kept screaming for his dog, but it was paying no attention....it was approaching very fast. I knew the dog would cross the creek and it did.....The handler was very far away at this point and on the other side of the creek.

Dog approached us running, I stepped in front of Bane and tried slowing the dog down..,,Almost impossible with a pointer...I figured my hot dog treats would have no effect, and they didn't.... I never let the dog come in contact with Bane. Bane was barking, and not thrilled with the dog. It wasn't his happy go lucky bark...., The bird dog kept trying to approach Bane...He wasn't barking, but was being the normal super hyper, determined, bird dog....I kept kicking the dog away. My dog was on a leash and i tried to maintain slack in the leash when dancing around in circles kicking the dog away,,,, I def got a workout in....Took the handler over 5 minutes to get close enough to get control....At least all three of them didn't come rushing in....I might of had to pull my pistol and shoot into the creek bed.... Maybe they would think bird down at this point.....Cops might of frowned upon it... Handler apologized, and leashed the problem dog...The other 2 dogs listened to him... Thank God....I don't know how I would of reacted to 3 bird dogs rushing us....That would of been a lot harder to control. 

Anyway I should of handled this different? 

Is Banes behavior normal for this type of encounter? 

I didn't want the dog to come in contact with Bane. Not many bird dogs(pointer type) have a calm gear. The dog wasn't showing any aggression, but I didn't let him get closer than 2-3 feet... He kept trying to break the barrier, I would kick him out of it....


Bane is pretty cautious/observant around other dogs....When walking, and a dog starts barking, a lot of times he will sit and just watch them, trying to sniff them out. Sometimes, he pays no attention and carries on... I try to make him maintain focus on me, but he usually stays locked on the dog....I haven't had many large breed adult encounters with Bane....I just don't trust other peoples dogs and do not want to take the chance....


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

What an ordeal for you and Bane  I can sure understand your concern and worry. Bane did handle it well though. I can't speak from experience as I didn't have an encounter like that with walking a puppy. I do know that with certain types of dogs the kicking out at the dog could backfire and put the dog on the defensive to attack. I turn my back and walk away with my dog by my side and don't make any contact with the loose dog - totally ignore. I focus on my dog and keep moving away. I do agree with you that I also don't trust other people's dogs or them to have control over their dog. I have read other posts where it was advised to carry a walking stick and use that.


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

I have all the bamboo sticks I need...I need to start carrying it with me...I honestly don't think I could of walked away, every time I would try to turn and go, he would be in front of us again.... I don't know if this dog would of did anything. But I wasn't going to find out....It def shook my dog up when he came rushing in. Banes hair went up and he was barking at this dog.... I probably would of had to drag him along....

On occasions during walks, he acts very cautious. Doesn't tuck his tell....Just alerts and observes. He tries sniffing everything out or get a feel for it.... 

When speaking of nerves....What would you watch your pup for in these occasions to see how his nerves are? Or is it possible? I didn't have much time to observe my dog, I was too busy keeping the other dog away....After that encounter, he was cautious the rest of the way home... I'm hoping this improves as he matures? He is still young, and so far everything has seemed fine. Does very well around all distractions so far, barking dogs behind fences is different, he loves to observe them from a sit position and sniff it out.....I try to keep him moving, but in don't want to drag him along. So I be letting him sit and observe or just "pull" him out of the observing?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Make sure he gets some good time with nice dogs.


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

That is my goal over the next 7 days...I'm on vacation.. I've been talking to a guy in town that has a 1 year old male GSD and wants me to show him the ropes on marker training and we are wanting to introduce out dogs. Should we have the older dog approach us or Visa Versa? Start from a distance and work our way closer? They will both be leashed. His dog is almost full size (weight wise) , and he is also a male GSD. How would you go about it? 

How should I approach this? Have him meet me at my in laws house....The have a couple fields surrounding their house. Me and Bane were in the process of walking over there tonight when we ran into the bird dogs.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Well, if you don't know the male GSD and how it responds to puppies, I would be very cautious.....At 1, he is a big puppy himself and may overwhelm the little one if he has not learned the rules of puppy. When Beau was around that age and we introduced him to a new team puppy, we had the puppy in the crate in the car first and let Beau approach. When it was clear there were not going to be issues we took the pup out on lead and Beau was on lead..when he got too playful, I put him in a down and she did not let the puppy climb all over him..... But I already knew that Beau has zero issues with on lead aggression. You want to make sure that is the case with this dog.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

my opinion might not be popular but it seems like you are babying your dog way too much. your dog is 4 months old, not a 10 week pup. your dog at that age is probably bigger than or just as big as half the dogs he encounters. IF he has good nerves he should be able to recover from anything short of a dog full out attacking him.

gsds are suppose to be tough hard dogs. if your dog seem skittish/fearful then i'd control his interactions with the world. if he's confident and fearless then let him take on the world by himself and only intervene when necessary.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Jmoore728 said:


> I've been around plenty of pointers. Very high strung dogs....While taking Bane walking in the pasture tonight, I noticed a guy running his 3 bird dogs off leash across the pasture......I first noticed them when they were probably 1/4 mile away.... I kept on our side of the creek....Bane spotted them, and he sit and just watched them... I got him walking again, but he kept paying attention to them........I was trying to get moving before one of them spotted us....I failed....One of the pointers finally spotted us and the handler knew what his dog was up to at this point.,..He kept screaming for his dog, but it was paying no attention....it was approaching very fast. I knew the dog would cross the creek and it did.....The handler was very far away at this point and on the other side of the creek.
> 
> Dog approached us running, I stepped in front of Bane and tried slowing the dog down..,,Almost impossible with a pointer...I figured my hot dog treats would have no effect, and they didn't.... I never let the dog come in contact with Bane. Bane was barking, and not thrilled with the dog. It wasn't his happy go lucky bark...., The bird dog kept trying to approach Bane...He wasn't barking, but was being the normal super hyper, determined, bird dog....I kept kicking the dog away. My dog was on a leash and i tried to maintain slack in the leash when dancing around in circles kicking the dog away,,,, I def got a workout in....Took the handler over 5 minutes to get close enough to get control....At least all three of them didn't come rushing in....I might of had to pull my pistol and shoot into the creek bed.... Maybe they would think bird down at this point.....Cops might of frowned upon it... Handler apologized, and leashed the problem dog...The other 2 dogs listened to him... Thank God....I don't know how I would of reacted to 3 bird dogs rushing us....That would of been a lot harder to control.
> 
> ...


You did the right thing protecting your pup. I also had an encounter with a bird dog at a dog park when Cruz was pretty young. He was a big pup but the bird dog as you mentioned was relentless. A 1 yr. old Female GSD came to the aide of my pup as the bird dog was to fast in the situation and drove the bird dog off my pup before we could get to them. I think it damaged his confidence for a month or so. He has all the confidence in the world now. Had that bird dog gotten to your pup, it wouldn't have been a good experience for your pup. 

As far as the interaction with the other GSD. I agree with Jocoyn. Be careful. Slow controlled introduction would be highly important if it were me. I introduced my pup to a mature GSD in the neighborhood last summer. But both dogs were on leash and kept a few yards apart. They never really got to interact for long and have not since except a run in by accident a few weeks ago that was anything but fun and play. But that's another story. Just be careful. I always go with my feeling and if it doesn't feel right, don't do it.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

There's a pointer that goes to the same dog park as me. Whenever we're both there, my eyes are trained on him because whenever he plays with another dog it almost always turns ugly. 


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

hot dogs for your dog I assume?
at that point you can't mark and reward your dog , and the dog has zero interest , and the focus has to be YOU , not the reward or lure or bribe , choose your own definition.
you said "Bane is pretty cautious/observant around other dogs....When walking, and a dog starts barking, a lot of times he will sit and just watch them, trying to sniff them out. Sometimes, he pays no attention and carries on... I try to make him maintain focus on me, but he usually stays locked on the dog"

when walking he is going with you , at your speed , in your direction -- you control the time and length , you control. If you are in control there is no opportunity for the dog to sit and watch the other dog . He is zoning you out . Going to get harder to get his attention.
All your wording shows the dog is in charge . The dog is either focused on you or he is not -- it is not something you try to maintain , you set it up so that it is in his best interest to be so . That the dog is locking his focus on the other dog shows lack of your leadership. Keep on moving . praise -- This from another thread -- amazing handler / pup connection -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izErPUWXnfc
your dog is in prime socialization period -- what you allow to happen , give unintentional approval to will form the behaviour you will get from him as an adult . don't baby --- get the behaviour you want from him - you can't control the other dogs or the rest of the world , you can only control your own dog - he needs to trust you , co operate with you -- go with you , not the other way around.


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> my opinion might not be popular but it seems like you are babying your dog way too much. your dog is 4 months old, not a 10 week pup. your dog at that age is probably bigger than or just as big as half the dogs he encounters. IF he has good nerves he should be able to recover from anything short of a dog full out attacking him.
> 
> gsds are suppose to be tough hard dogs. if your dog seem skittish/fearful then i'd control his interactions with the world. if he's confident and fearless then let him take on the world by himself and only intervene when necessary.


I understand GSD are supposed to be tough, hard dogs, but I wasn't going to let a dog fight break out. If I would of done nothing, I'm confident it would of turned out with a dog full out attacking him... I'll continue to protect my dog. Even we he reaches maturity, I'm not going to let a dog fight break out if I can prevent it. I have exposed Bane to every possible environment i can think of. Always going to new places. He might get skittish sometimes, but not very often. 

Everyone is green at one point, I'm green, and I use this forum to help expand my knowledge or ask questions when I don't know... Like I stated, we haven't had many encounters with adult large breed dogs. A few, but not many. It's in the works though.


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

carmspack said:


> hot dogs for your dog I assume?
> at that point you can't mark and reward your dog , and the dog has zero interest , and the focus has to be YOU , not the reward or lure or bribe , choose your own definition.
> you said "Bane is pretty cautious/observant around other dogs....When walking, and a dog starts barking, a lot of times he will sit and just watch them, trying to sniff them out. Sometimes, he pays no attention and carries on... I try to make him maintain focus on me, but he usually stays locked on the dog"
> 
> ...


Thanks for the wake up call guys.....Lol.....I have been letting him go at his pace on walks.....I "thought" I would let him check things out....Looks like I might of started a bad habit......

When doing marker training, he has great focus....He doesn't get a reward unless there is focus on me. I'm carefully with timing, my body language and body movement......I need to work on getting more focus when taking him for walks, etc. 

When walking and he tries to sit and observe these dogs, should I just give him a quick tug to move him along and keep him up to my pace. I thought it was a bad idea to force him along at this age? I understand what you're saying. Everything you stated makes sense. I'm on vacation all week, so I will have plenty of time to try and get these things worked out or at least head that direction....

As for the hot dogs, I tried giving a few to the bird dog, thinking it might slow his roll....


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

I probably am babying him to much. I need to get the walking at his pace problem fixed ASAP.....that will be my the first thing I start tomorrow. 

At this age, do you allow them have their noses down while walking, or do you want them with their head up ? 

I have so much to learn.....Just when I thought I was improving, you guys hit me with some reality on several issues. Thank you much......


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

head should be level , if he is on the ground he is in his own world --
you don't need to be rough - just keep on going 
no no no , the dog walks at your pace . Of course you are going to be considerate of his age. Instead of a marathon , 10 minutes of "good" , several times a day are better . Keeps the puppies mind crisp . Keeps both of you from starting to day dream. 
I see a lot of dogs taking their owners for a walk , they swing left to right sniffing every bush , marking fences , stopping for a sniff of the grass . The owner is just a facilitator going on the dogs walk. You see it bleed into obedience problems down the road.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

for me when i take my dog for a walk i start with a good heel by my side. his attention is on me. his focus is on me. we work on obedience during the walk. after a couple of blocks i'll release him and let him sniff and do whatever he wants. after a couple of blocks i'll have him back to my side and back to his "training" walk. then a few more blocks and i'd release for him to go play. his reward for a good training walk is that he gets released to go play. of course i'm talking about a more mature dog than yours with good obedience. for a pup that you have to have on a leash i'd keep him engaged with you for a while and his "release to go play" would be that he can sniff whatever he wants.

when i walked with my pup i did not stop. my pace was constant. you dont have to yank the dog along. just keep the leash by your side and keep walking. its ok to tug your dog along if he is sitting because he is focused on something else. that is entirely different from a pup that just sits because he is tired and doesnt want to go anymore.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

From day one walks were never potty time unless I found a place to pull off -- periods of engagement were shorter as boomer said. I only demand heeling in relatively short segments but still loose leash walking the rest of the time.

Thinking about the other dog. Guage his control of the dog. No need for them to have contact until you have a better read on him. I would have both of you doing some engagement things near each other at a distance where you can both command your own dog's attention.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

great suggestions boomer11. The most important early exercises are move with me , come to me . A recall game in the release period can be a recall . When the dog comes praise to the skies, make it physical - then push the dog off telling him okay go--- The pup will be surprised and excited by the game . Give a "here" or "come" call quickly after this release . Keep repeating . The quicker the dog comes in the quicker you are going to release him. It becomes a great incentive to come in to you and teaches the dog that a recall is not a fun ender , sentence , being caught , but the beginning of fun . Good association all round.


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

Thanks for the input everyone.... Great stuff... It's a lot colder today, not near as many distractions will be out.....60 degrees yesterday now 20 degrees with 30 mph wind....That usually keeps the sidewalk traffic down


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

That might be part of my problem....Maybe I'm not being fun enough....hmmm... 

Although, taking the advise pasted, today's walk was much more pleasant....I'll keep working it....A few yard dogs started barking, but I made him keep walking and had him focus on me....

A few yard flags were whipping around due to the wind....I let him check them so he knew it was nothing to be worried about....But in a controlled fashion....I still didn't allow him to stop the pace and had him maintain focus....Not perfect, but much better than allowing him to have his nose glued to the ground and setting the pace....


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## ODINsFREKI (Jul 30, 2013)

You probably already know this but, don't pull your firearm unless you intend to use it. It's not a noisemaker. 

Let your puppy be free and be careful for stupid dogs like you just encountered! You did everything right in that situation. Bird dogs are about as dumb as they get in my opinion. They do their job well but are really stupid at everything else. 

Build your dog's confidence with other known dogs who were well trained. He might get put in place a few times by the other dogs but they won't hurt him. At least the dogs I spend time with wont. They learn how a pack works and structure. 

The worst thing we can do is allow our dogs to hang out with other stupid, untrained dogs!

Good luck and keep the sucker holstered unless you plan to use it! Trust me! Warning shots have landed me in county jail for a few days when I was younger. I now use my boots.


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