# Vet problem?



## Dudes mom (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this thread but here goes .

The vet practice that I have used for years was bought by a different vet while I was between dogs. Since getting Dude and Ivan last year I have gotten to know the new vet, the vet techs and office staff.

The techs and staff I love, and the boys love them. They are comfortable and affectionate with the dogs, and in turn the dogs get excited when we pull into the parking lot!

We are fortunate to not have any health problems so the only visits we have been doing lately are weigh-ins, just to keep the boys familiar with the office. Normally we don't see the vet when we go, one of the techs will take us back and get the weight.

Yesterday I took Ivan, my 9 month old, he weighed in at 67lbs. He is a super confident pup, the world is his oyster and everybody loves him, in his eyes anyway. He is large and in charge and loves to have people tell him how wonderful he is. Admittedly he is not the best behaved on leash, a work still in progress. On walks he's fine, it's just the initial excitement of going in the office, or the store, or where ever. He settles quickly though.

Anyway, when we were at the vet's yesterday, the vet was in. When the tech took us back to the scale we rounded the corner and met face to face with the vet. She looked utterly terrified. Ivan was happy to see another person to greet, and tried to pull to her to say hello. She backed up til she was pressed against the wall. There was no way she couldn't have heard us coming, the tech and I were talking.

I'm concerned that the vet may be afraid of my dogs, and how can she have a good relationship with them if she is afraid? Ivan was in no way threatening, he's a big goofball. If it had been Dude with me though, I don't know how he would have reacted. He does react to people who aren't comfortable with him. He's friendly and likes to greet people who are relaxed but is alert otherwise.

Would you talk to the vet about this, or just find another one that is relaxed with your dogs? The clinic is so convenient for me and I love the staff, it's just the vet I worry about.

Thanks


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I would talk to the vet about it and offer to have her meet your dogs in a controlled situation to help assuage her feelings. I see it as an opportunity to help her out. Vets aren't trainers, so they may be uncomfortable in some situations, especially if they are new. That doesn't mean she is a substandard clinician.

Help her out!


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## Dudes mom (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm not against talking to the vet to see if we can work this out. I may not have given enough information in my post before. Yesterday wasn't the first time she has seen Ivan, it was just the first time she has seen him in 3 or 4 months. She has done everything from his first vet check when I got him to his pulled muscle from a failed superman attempt. 

I guess I'm just afraid that if she is afraid of large dogs, if I ever had to bring one of the boys in for an emergency that the situation could be harmful to their socialization. I try to take them around people who think they are as great as I do, lol. I could be just overthinking this though. Was just really surprised at her reaction.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

I would search around for a new vet. If your vet is afraid of your dog "any type" of dog, and the dog senses this; it will never be right. Dogs also feed off of their masters vibes at the vet too. If you are not happy, the dog probably won't be either. The Vet should be an easy experience for you and the dog, not a fiasco.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Loneforce said:


> I would search around for a new vet. If your vet is afraid of your dog "any type" of dog, and the dog senses this; it will never be right. Dogs also feed off of their masters vibes at the vet too. If you are not happy, the dog probably won't be either. The Vet should be an easy experience for you and the dog, not a fiasco.


I agree with this!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but that's MHO.

Maybe the vet was dealing with an aggressive GSD that looked similar to yours 10 minutes before you got there.

Maybe she was calculating dosing on a med for a dog in another exam room and was surprised.

If she has treated your dog before without problems, I would at least give her the courtesy of a conversation discussing the matter before taking your business elsewhere.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I would talk to the vet before I made a decision.
I've left a vet for exactly that reason, however. She was TERRIFIED of "those dogs" and said that they could never be trusted. I walked out because she wouldn't even enter the room unless my dog was muzzled first.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

Dainerra said:


> I would talk to the vet before I made a decision.
> I agree with this also, but if your vet does seem they are afraid of your dog even after you talk to them; I would then start the search. Just think if your dog gives a little warning growl what will happen. "gulp" ( This is just my opinion I by no means claim to be or think I am a professional) I leave that to the others on here.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i don't think you can judge her from that 1 encounter. you said she
has treated your dog in the past. maybe you read her wrong. maybe
she was giving you, the tech and your dog room to pass.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It is hit or miss with vets and GSD's in my experience . The same vet that treated Midnite at the shelter walked into the room(we were there for a 10 day check up) took one look at him and muzzled him. The techs took the muzzle off him when they did his ears and nails. The second vet was neutral. The vet I finally settled on loves shepherds. He got on the ground and played with Midnite like he was his own dog. Midnite responded well to him. I think its important for the dog to feel comfortable.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

You love the vet and staff, but you're concerned because the vet backed away from your dog? [sigh.] No matter how good the overall experience, some people want to focus on the one thing that might be perceived as negative. As someone who works with the public and their pets, and bends over backward for them, it's depressing to hear this. 

If your dog is a friendly, outgoing, boisterous sort, maybe the vet just didn't want to get jumped on.

I think you're overreacting, but if you're that concerned, talk to the vet about it.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Dainerra said:


> I would talk to the vet before I made a decision.
> I've left a vet for exactly that reason, however. She was TERRIFIED of "those dogs" and said that they could never be trusted. I walked out because she wouldn't even enter the room unless my dog was muzzled first.


I also left a vet for that reason. My smaller female GSD, he didn't seem too upset about, although I knew he wasn't really comfortable with her. At that same time I also had one of my wolf shepherds, and that vet was completely terrified of him--one of the most mellow canines I have had in 50 years. My boy picked up on it, though, and decided he had to protect me from that suspicious character. I am strong and was able to calm him down, however, and we did put a muzzle on him just to make the Dr. more comfortable. We got through that visit, and the vet admitted to me that he's really a cat person... That's when I decided it was time to move on. With the help of a friend I found my current vet, and she loved my GSDs AND my wolf shepherds, and they all loved her, including the current GSDs. I didn't want the other vet's fear of my animals clouding his diagnostic and/or surgical skills when they might be needed the most.


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## Dudes mom (Apr 25, 2013)

I am going to have a conversation with the vet, to see where she is. I don't usually make assumptions about people, but she seemed terrified of my puppy. 

@freestep, I may be focusing on the negative in the situation. But it is a big negative in my book, for all involved, not just me. I don't have a long standing relationship with this vet, she recently bought the practice. It's the techs and staff that I know and love and who have been so good with my dogs. And let me reiterate, these are pups, 12 month and 9 month.

I will have a conversation to ensure there isn't a problem with my dogs, I need there to be a relationship there. I don't want going to the vet to be an unpleasant event for my boys. If she is afraid of large dogs, or german shephards, or black and red GSDs, or whatever, then there is no point in putting her, me or my boys through the stress when I can find another vet who would be more comfortable seeing my boys walk through the door.

So it's not just me or my boys I'm thinking about here. I'm not offended by her reaction, I hate that you seem offended by my concern.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Dudes mom said:


> I'm not offended by her reaction, I hate that you seem offended by my concern.


 I'm not "offended" by your concern. It's your assumptions that bother me.

Veterinarians sure don't go into their profession for the money. They go into it because they love animals and want to help them. If they wanted to make a bunch of money, they'd go to law school or become a human doctor. Human medicine requires the same amount of school and costs about the same, but physicians can earn many times what a vet makes. So you can safely assume that your vet loves animals. Sure, there are bad vets out there just like there are bad doctors and bad plumbers. But in my experience, it's the exception rather than the rule.

Just because the vet "backed away" from a big, boisterous, lunging dog, you can't assume there is going to be a problem. Like I said, she may not have wanted to be jumped on. Perhaps she was holding a sample and didn't want to spill it. Perhaps she was not expecting a dog to be right there as she rounded the corner. Perhaps she was expecting you to be controlling your dog rather than letting him pull toward her. She may simply have been surprised and caught off guard.

The fact that you were concerned enough to post on the internet about this rather than simply talking to the vet about it, seem to indicate that you are looking for other opinions or perspectives. So I'm simply giving you one from the inside.

IF this particular vet *is* afraid of GSDs, she has good reason to be. GSDs have a terrible reputation in the veterinary world, because we see SooOOooOoooo many poorly-bred, untrained, unsocialized, psychotic GSDs that will bite first and ask questions later. This is something many people don't realize. You see enough of these, and you might start to use more caution around the breed. 

The upside of that is that if you have a well-bred, well-trained, socialized GSD that is easygoing and friendly, the vet and staff will never stop being in awe of you and your dog, the "good" GSD! 

I hope that when you talk to the vet, you will do so in a manner that is not accusatory. Even if it turns out that the vet *is* afraid of GSDs, to assume that your dog would be treated poorly because of it is kind of insulting. Especially since the staff already knows you and your dog.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Freestep said:


> Just because the vet "backed away" from a big, boisterous, lunging dog, you can't assume there is going to be a problem. Like I said, she may not have wanted to be jumped on. Perhaps she was holding a sample and didn't want to spill it. Perhaps she was not expecting a dog to be right there as she rounded the corner. Perhaps she was expecting you to be controlling your dog rather than letting him pull toward her. She may simply have been surprised and caught off guard.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Lilie said:


> What if the vet just treated a dog with something very contagious - like Parvo. And was on her way to strip off her scrubs. Or even if she had already disinfected herself, it was a knee jerk reaction seeing the dog after treating something contagious.


That's an excellent point and very true. I hadn't even thought of that. 

Parvovirus in particular is very persistent in the environment and very contageous--even if the vet had already disinfected, it would be a knee-jerk reaction to keep a distance from ANY dog. 

You have to envision the parvovirus like paint. If you have paint on your hands, you can't touch anything without getting paint on that, and then someone else will touch it and get paint on their hands. When you think like this, you become hyper-aware of anything touching you or your clothes after touching a dog with parvo.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I totally understand the OP's concern. I would find this vet's reaction very odd but wouldn't rule it out entirely without further discussion.

When I took my pup to the vet's at 6 months old for checkup and booster shot, I was late and as a result did not get my regular vet. Instead I had a very young woman come in. I had no issue with this as I knew what I was there for and was more than comfortable that this vet to accomplish without issue. I was wrong. 
I had specified when I booked my appointment that I wanted Distemper/Parvo ONLY. Soooooo....this young lady comes in the room, looks at Gus and says "Is he friendly"?. Yep I answer so she starts her exam. Gus was still a mouthy puppy at this time so I helped to hold him while she did her thing. When she went to check his ears, he mouthed her hand as I wasn't paying full attention. She immediately stepped back and grabbed the wall. She looked terrified and I thought omg he bit her!! I asked her if Gus had hurt her, she said no not at all but that he could have. I breathed a sigh of relief and then the disgust started to creep in. She looked at him and then the muzzles on the shelf, I caught on and immediately told her that if she needed him to be muzzled I would reschedule with my regular vet. She continued without the muzzle, I kept a much more vigilant eye and hand on Gus to prevent a repeat. She gave him his vaccination only to find out she gave him a 5 way vaccine. Needless to say I was not happy. She then announced that Gus was the healthiest looking GSD she had seen in years and asked what I was feeding. When I told her Gus is fed a RAW diet, she quickly announced how dangerous this was for Gus and my family. I would not use this vet again and it doesn't mean she is a horrible vet, it means I did not like how she handled herself. When I made appointment for his rabies shot 4 weeks later I was sure to have my regular vet who is also the owner of this clinic.

It is important that you feel comfortable with your vet.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

A vet should know that if they show fear and step away from a large dog it will be more likely to pursue them. She should be used to seeing large dogs in her practice and know how to act.

Still it would be good to try educate her on how to interact with large dogs. She should have stayed cool and looked at you not the dog, and asked how is the dogs behavior. She can always then ask you to step back with the dog if she felt uncomfortable.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Saphire said:


> When she went to check his ears, he mouthed her hand as I wasn't paying full attention. She immediately stepped back and grabbed the wall. She looked terrified and I thought omg he bit her!! I asked her if Gus had hurt her, she said no not at all but that he could have. I breathed a sigh of relief and then the disgust started to creep in. She looked at him and then the muzzles on the shelf, I caught on and immediately told her that if she needed him to be muzzled I would reschedule with my regular vet.


 ???

You think muzzles are cruel or something? Why would you expect anyone not to want to protect themselves, especially with a dog that has already bitten them once? You weren't paying attention, the pup mouthed/bit the vet, and you were disgusted that she "looked" at the muzzles? 

Should vets just allow themselves to be bitten so the client doesn't get offended?

I realize this was just normal puppy mouthing, and so did the vet, obviously, or she'd have muzzled him (or asked you to leave if you refused to allow it).

To threaten to go to another vet because your puppy bit the vet while you weren't paying attention? I can't understand this reasoning. I would have been more a lot more upset about the vaccine mix-up.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I also agree the vet shouldn't be handling the dog if she is nervous regardless if the dog is muzzled or not. It is the wrong energy to expose the dog to. It should only interact with people used to handling big dogs and not people who are obviously afraid.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

He did not bite the vet....and yes I expect a vet to be able to tolerate mouthing puppies without muzzling. I saw nothing horrid in what he did but her reaction had me second guessing myself.

I have no issue with muzzles if needed for safety, there was no danger in this case...IMO. I would not muzzle my puppy for mouthing at home or out but do expect my vet to be able to differentiate between puppy mouthing and actual biting and if they can't then I don't want them for a vet.

Yep I was upset about the vaccine given, her reaction to puppy mouthing and her total distaste for RAW feeding. Whole appointment was a wash for me.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Thinking more about this....if this same thing happened anywhere but in a vets office, I would probably have thought the reaction was warranted and normal. I am most definately holding my vet to a much higher standard. Double standard....perhaps...fair...maybe not but does it change my expectations? Nope.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I go to an animal hospital with lots of vets and I don't normally care who I get. One of them is definitely not as confident around GSDs. However, she does what I need (vaccine, blood draw for heartworm test, etc) and if she's the one we get, I restrain my dog. Normally I don't restrain him at all and just let the vet tell me what to do (usually nothing since he's not bad at the vet) but if it's her, I will loop my leash around his muzzle, cross it underneath, and hold it with one hand and then use my other hand to hold him and let him know I'm there and I'm the one restraining him. He doesn't even need it, but I can tell it makes her feel better when she has to do something like draw blood and my dog doesn't really care. To him the vet = nasty Science Diet treats (which he loves) and getting loved on by the vet techs. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if the vet is not 100% confident with every dog or every breed as long as they will ask the owner for help or ask a vet tech who is confident and trained how to safely restrain the dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I muzzle my dogs, and handle them for procedures, it is no big deal to me and the techs and vet are more comfortable performing the tasks we are there for. 
I did leave a clinic when Onyx was about a yr old. One of the vets there was afraid of her, and wouldn't even come back into the exam room when Onyx went off on her for an ear swab. This was the first of Onyx showing reactivity(she wasn't muzzled and I didn't have one) The next couple visits, we saw the other vet as I requested, but then she went off on ME for feeding a raw diet. That was enough to send me packing. There were other things....like one of the vets misdiagnosing Onyx with HD but those two episodes were the icing on the cake.

IF this is a new vet, I'd try to work with her so she can get over her intimidation of certain breeds. Many vets see the GSD as a fearbag because they see so many that are not of strong temperament. They are already predisposed to the fact that they might get bitten. I don't have a problem with muzzling for procedures, it makes it easier for all, IMO.


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## Dudes mom (Apr 25, 2013)

I don't know how new of a vet she is. She is new to this practice and new to this area. I can make an assumption most people would make and say she is not new to the profession, she's my age or older, late 40's early 50's. The old vet retired and sold the practice. The reason I know she is new to the area is that the staff told me so.

I really didn't intend to offend anyone with my concerns or my assumptions. Though it needs to be said, nowhere in my original post did I say my pup was out of my control or lunging or being boisterous. Those were assumptions that were made. I was meaning to describe my happy go lucky, confident, loves everybody puppy who doesn't do loose leash as well as he should. I must not have done a good job at that.

I do intend to discuss my concerns with my vet in a non accusatory tone to ensure a good relationship for all concerned. her, me and my dogs. If she is more comfortable with small animals, that's fine. I do not have a problem with that, but I will find a vet who is comfortable with my large dogs.

And I did come here to the forum, to get other opinions. Thank you for yours.


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## Dudes mom (Apr 25, 2013)

Me and the vet had a conversation this afternoon. I scheduled a time for this and paid the visit  . I told her about my concerns about how she reacted when we were there last weekend, that I felt like she might be afraid of Ivan.

And yes, she had a bad experience with a large dog before and has had a hard time getting passed it. And though she ooohed and aaahhhed at Ivan's and Dude's puppy breath last year, now they make her uncomfortable.

So this is what we are going to do. She's a really sweet person, and she is new to the area. I suggested that I bring Ivan or Dude in once a week (we are always out anyway) to visit for a minute or 2 so she can give treats and handle them to see if she can work passed her fear. There is another vet in another town about 20 more miles away (rural area here  already driving 15 miles to see this vet) who I can use if there happens to be an emergency come up. Some of my coworkers use this vet and I have talked to him.

I'm sure the outcome will be positive which ever way it goes. Either being around my boys more often will help her be more comfortable, or we will use the vet further out. Thanks again for everyones perspective.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Terrible Situation*

I've posted her before about my Zeus' problems with a new vet. But basically, we went to a vet we didn't know for ear infection because our existing vet didn't have a slot on her schedule.

The vet tech, an older rather broken down lady (sorry, but that's the best way to describe her) was clearly afraid of Zeus. He sensed it right away as she led us into a room and was edgy. Then she jabbed a thermometer into his anus without so much as a fair-the-well. Zeus, at 105 lbs, wasn't having any of that.

I asked her to back off and she went to get the vet.

I had just gotten Zeus calmed a bit when the vet came in. He was a small man with a distinct limp and he was clearly afraid of the dog. He no more than just touched Zeus than it was game on. We're lucky we had a muzzle on him but that didn't last.

Ever try to control a 105 pounder on a pedistal table when all he wants is a piece of the vet? Muzzle wasn't enough.

The dog was turned into a skyrocket the moment he saw the technician afraid and then into an intergalactic shooting star when he saw the hobbled and fearful vet.

We're walking Zeus every day the weather permits 1.5 miles to the old vet's office just to get him calmed down in time for his one year physical and shots. It's been weeks and he still froths at the mouth and drool he's so nervous. 

Finally, this week we got him to take a treat in the Vet's office. Of course, dogs who are afraid don't eat you know. So, we're making progress. I just wish I'd never been so impatient to have his ears medicated. That vet has ruined my dog for the time being.

GO TO ANOTHER VET!


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Follow up.*

We've agreed with the senior technician to give my dog an anti-=anxiety pill about an hour before he comes in next time for his physical.

If that's not enough they're going to keep him overnight and sedate him to give him what he needs. They say it's one of those sedatives that they can easily reverse with another injection (think Wild Kingdom).

I guess I'm OK with that as long as we don't have to do this too much. Once a year is probably all I can afford.

LF


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Dudes mom said:


> Me and the vet had a conversation this afternoon. I scheduled a time for this and paid the visit  . I told her about my concerns about how she reacted when we were there last weekend, that I felt like she might be afraid of Ivan.
> 
> And yes, she had a bad experience with a large dog before and has had a hard time getting passed it. And though she ooohed and aaahhhed at Ivan's and Dude's puppy breath last year, now they make her uncomfortable.
> 
> ...


I'm glad that you are trying to set her fears at ease, BUT you should not be paying for that consult. A vet that is intimidated by certain breeds should be working on it with clients, but not charge anything for a consult as you had. Dogs sure do feel and scent that fear and some will take advantage. If she is that intimidated, she should hire a tech to do most all procedures and hold the dogs for her while she administers the rabies vaccines. That is really the only thing the vet needs to do legally. 
As far as surgery goes, the vet is safe when the dog is under anesthesia.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I feel pretty fortunate with my vets. They are not afraid of my dogs. 

I think that a vet who is afraid of the dog in front of them, might miss something, sorry to the vet techs on here. But it is true that if the dog reads the person exuding fear, the dog might become more anxious. If the vet is busy worried about what the dog might do, the vet might not be as thorough as they ought to be. 

I applaud the OP for trying to help the vet. It is sad that so many GSDs have given themselves a bad name with vets. There is nothing wrong with the occasional use of a muzzle to protect staff when something is scary or painful, but I wouldn't want to muzzle a dog for no reason at the vet, as it might increase the anxiety in the dog, and it can also give the vet and the techs, and other clients the wrong impression about your dog -- not that that matters, but it can matter. 

Vets and groomers are going to get bit. They are not the dogs' owners, and no one is perfect 100% of the time in how they read and manage a situation. It is something that is probably going to happen at some point, and something that vets do need to be able to shake off. 

If my vet acted fearful of my dog because of its size or breed, I think I probably would have to look elsewhere. People with smaller dogs and cats, will take their dogs there, and the vet will be more comfortable. But my dogs are my responsibility.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

selzer said:


> Vets and groomers are going to get bit. They are not the dogs' owners, and no one is perfect 100% of the time in how they read and manage a situation. It is something that is probably going to happen at some point, and something that vets do need to be able to shake off.


 I agree. I spend about .0001% of my time worrying about being bitten, and I haven't been bitten for a long time [knock wood]. However, I get to pick and choose the pets I work with, and veterinarians don't have that luxury. 

For example, I don't touch Chows. I've had enough bad experiences to know that it's in everyone's best interest for a Chow to go to a groomer who likes Chows (and yes, they are out there). But if I didn't have that luxury, I sure as heck would take every precaution with Chows including muzzling. 

I can't fault a veterinarian for being afraid of GSDs--as I said, there are exponentially more poorly-bred, untrained, unsocialized GSDs out there than there are good ones, and it's wise to use caution. I don't think that it follows, however, that the dog will be treated poorly or unfairly just because the vet is afraid of it. Most of the treatments are done by the techs anyway, so in the case of surgery, the vet doesn't necessarily have to be involved until after the dog is sedated and/or anesthetized. 

I do think the fear is something that pet professionals need to overcome if they are going to be working with the breed they are fearful of. Easier said than done, but it makes everything go much more smoothly if everyone is comfortable.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My vets examine my dogs. They do not draw the blood. They do administer shots, they will train me to wrap a wound or broken bone. Though techs may do that as well. Techs will shave the area and clean a wound. But the vets are the ones that look in the eyes and at the teeth and grope the abdomen and check the testicles and listen for the heart beat. 

And as much as the physical signs are important, the behavior of the dog, lethargy, anxiety, panting, drooling, limping, cocking the head -- neurological signs, these are also important. I wouldn't want a vet that has a fear of the dog itself trying to determine whether the dog is showing ordinary anxiety for being at the vet's office, muzzled, or if the dog is showing a symptom of a greater problem.

I have learned somethings over the years:

If a trainer is afraid of my puppy, I need a new trainer.
If a groomer is in a bad mood, don't hand the dog over to them.
If a vet is biased toward a breed of dog, uncomfortable with the type of dog I have, time to find a new vet.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

If it were my vet, I would be concerned at that level of unease. Unlike a lot of you, my vet does everything except weigh the animal, and some days he even does that! There are only vets and assistants there, no techs. If the vet can't see the animals as individuals instead of a collective, then I would probably go somewhere else. I don't want them to base their views of my dog on a bad experience they had with a totally different animal. Their being uncomfortable/uneasy would make me anxious myself.


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