# Runs from me if she knows she is in trouble



## Sierra's Mom

Sierra has picked up a new habit of running from me if she know she is in trouble. This happens inside and out, not so much out anymore as the long line works great outside for stopping her. Trouble means a crate time out or time on her leash. I will ask Sierra to stop whatever she is doing(bothering a cat or whatever)using leave it or other command and if she doesnt respond I will go grab her and follow through with the punishments above. 

Since she is a smart little girl she has figured out that if I can't grab her she avoids punishment at least for a few minutes. She goes into ZOOM mode and will run all over the house and get very close to me to test me but If i even move an inch or look at her she will zoom off again. At first I would walk after her and attempt to catch or even rasie my voice. Now I stand still or go about other business waiting for this to pass. When I feel confident that I can grab her i do so and follow through with punishment which sometimes 3 or 4 minutes after the original infraction. 

My question is what can I do to improve this/stop this? I know its an issue cause now it has carried over into if she has a high value item like a treat sometimes she will run away if I simply walk up to pet her.


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## selzer

Your puppy is playing with you, stop this particular game. 

How?

Do not give her a command that you cannot enforce immediately. For now, she has not earned the right to run all over the house. She does not understand LEAVE IT. Usually if the dog starts running from you, if you run in the other direction, the dog will turn and chase, kool use the handle and catch her. But do not make a game of it. 

But the first thing is, she has to be a whole lot better at LEAVE IT, and maybe an emergency DOWN, before you let her off lead. What happens if she gets a hold of a bottle of IB profin? If you have a solid DOWN, you can then walk up to her and collect the bottle and then release her -- normally in this situation, I would say, What a good Girl, lets get you a treat -- that is praising for the down and giving up the bottle. Then you walk with her to the fridge and give a piece of cheese or other high value treat. 

But for now, when she is out, she has a lead on, until she learns to leave the cat alone, will do a LEAVE IT. Will do a DOWN. Then you can give her some time. 

I do NOT like the idea of the crate for punishment. Do you have an x-pen? When you cannot supervise, use an x-pen right in the front room where she can play and be a part of the house and family, but you do not have to have your eyes glued on her. So when you let her out of her special play area. If you are done interacting, put her in her special place. 

I do not like all this talk about punishment. First a dog has to know the command, then they have to know the command when you are sitting, in different places, in different levels of distractions. Even then, punishment makes little sense. A quick well-timed correction (usually a voice EH!) is enough or redirect, My Kitty, here is your bone -- that may work. Or you then put her back on lead. 

A correction or punishment does nothing after the fact. If it takes a minute or more to round up the dog, the dog has NO CLUE why you are angry. He will NOT associate chasing the cat to being put in his crate. He might think cool, mom is playing with me, and after we play we have a nap in the crate. 3 minutes after -- no, he is just having fun. He may be avoiding being put back in the crate. He has NO skills to realize that he can avoid crate time by leaving the cat alone. 

When the pup is ON LEAD, and he starts to go for the Kitty, THEN you correct with an EH! at first redirect him, and then give him a chance to redirect himself after the EH! and if he does praise, if he does not redirect. 

Put him in the crate or in the x-pen when you are calm. It his his good place. Not a punishment place. 

Good luck.


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## SchDDR

The thread should be titled "Runs from me when she knows I'm upset".

You're attributing understanding that the puppy simply isn't capable of possessing.
She knows that you do unpleasant things [punishment, as you've called it] when you're upset, and so she avoids it.

She has no understanding of what causes you to be upset, she's just avoiding the inevitable unpleasant things you do to her when you are.

Rather than punish the puppy, set the puppy up for success by managing the environment in ways that don't allow for the pup to get into trouble, and focus on redirecting the pup to appropriate behaviors rather than punishing for negative ones.


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## fuzzybunny

Is it possible your pup is afraid of you when you're upset? My guys run from my husband when he's upset and it's not because they're playing but rather because they are genuinely fearful of him when he's upset. I've had to work with my husband on this because he doesn't get it. They don't have this problem with me though. It's just a thought. Your dog might just be playing as Selzer mentioned.


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## PaddyD

What selzer said.


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## Tbarrios333

I do use my crate for my time out as well and my dogs do not have any negative association with it.
If she is doing something wrong, correct with your voice. If she is running from you after you correct her, keep her on leash at all times or at the very least keep a leash attached to her so you can catch her.
From what you're describing it doesn't sound like your puppy is scared at all. She is just playing with you and ignoring the behavior is a good call on your part. Try to stay calm because what SchDDR says is also true.
However, it is really too late to put her in a time out for what she did before so there is no use telling her she is a bad girl for that. What you can do is say "Crate time!" in a cheery voice and put her in a crate for a nap; zoomies are a good indicator that your puppy may be overtired. I always know that shortly after zoomies comes a nice long nap. If the puppy is getting into things she usually doesn't or is being overly rambunctious, it could be another sign that a nap is in order.


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## Lilie

Great post Selzer!


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## Sierra's Mom

Sierra loves her crate. It is an excellent time out(punishment) whatever you want to call it when she is all amped up. Yes, she runs from me beacuse she has disobeyed a command and knows that will end in crate time or on leash in the house with me. As she didnt go into zoom/run mood before i started the or leash or crate time. She would sometimes do the same thing cause she was hyper and just palying. She may know I am upset and that I am working on to never show her, but i think we have all been there!! But it is definitely a game to her as well as she almost taunts me to reach out grab her but i have since learned better. HEHE. There are times when I ask for the leave it with kitties and she trots up to me looking for her reward. 70% of the time she listens. SO i know she gets it she just doesn't always make the right choice as a lot of teenagers do.  I do use the verbal "ehhh" sound with her as well sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt. Usually works best if i use it before she is too into something.

I also just want to clear up what I do as "punishment" is walk up and clip a leash on or grab her by her collar and walk her to her crate. I do not say a word while i do it. There is no scolding. Besides the leash in the house what else can I do? Will not chasing and saying a word help her get the idea that I am not into palying that game?


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## Sierra's Mom

I should also mention that my cats play with her sometimes. I just will not allow the chasing or bugging them while they are resting or whatever.


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## kmarti32

Lots of good advice, thank you. My little guy was doing the same thing. He would run around circles around the table and he's so fast I couldn't catch him. Now when he starts doing that I just ignore him and he loses interest. He already knew that I was upset at whatever it was he did because I would say so "NO" or "Drop it". At first he would take off running WITH whatever he had that he shouldn't have. Now that I just ignore him, after my initial drop it, he knows I'm not playing the game and he just drops it. Also, now, I always use my "happy-good-boy" voice whenever I call him to me until he completely understands the "Come" command. 

So much to learn! So worth it!


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## Sierra's Mom

kmarti32 said:


> Lots of good advice, thank you. My little guy was doing the same thing. He would run around circles around the table and he's so fast I couldn't catch him. Now when he starts doing that I just ignore him and he loses interest. He already knew that I was upset at whatever it was he did because I would say so "NO" or "Drop it". At first he would take off running WITH whatever he had that he shouldn't have. Now that I just ignore him, after my initial drop it, he knows I'm not playing the game and he just drops it. Also, now, I always use my "happy-good-boy" voice whenever I call him to me until he completely understands the "Come" command.
> 
> So much to learn! So worth it!


Yes! I hope we get there. I have learned negative attention is still attention. It funny sometimes after the ZOOM I will point to the crate and she trots right in. SO frustrating!!!! LOL 

I think I will also try the teaching the emergency DOWN command as well.


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## SchDDR

Calling the dog to you to punish it is a great way to have a dog that doesn't come reliably.


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## Castlemaid

schddr said:


> the thread should be titled "runs from me when she knows i'm upset".
> 
> You're attributing understanding that the puppy simply isn't capable of possessing.
> She knows that you do unpleasant things [punishment, as you've called it] when you're upset, and so she avoids it.
> 
> She has no understanding of what causes you to be upset, she's just avoiding the inevitable unpleasant things you do to her when you are.
> 
> Rather than punish the puppy, set the puppy up for success by managing the environment in ways that don't allow for the pup to get into trouble, and focus on redirecting the pup to appropriate behaviors rather than punishing for negative ones.



exactly!!!


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## Sierra's Mom

Castlemaid said:


> exactly!!!


 So no timeouts?


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## Lilie

Using your scenario; 

Puppers is bothering in the cat. You say "Leave it!" Puppers ignores you. She might even look at you but stays engaged in the behavior you're attempting to stop. At that point you either scream it again, or jump up to stop it your self....and away she goes. Right?

What you could try is this:

Puppers is mauling the cat. You tell her "Leave It!" Puppers looks at you (you've redirected her attention but not stopped the behavior) You stand up (you intend on enforcing the command) the MOMENT she stops - even if she takes off - you drop to your knees and say, "Good girl! Good girl! Puppy! Puppy! Puppy! Good girl!" Throw a party! She stopped the behavior! Great job! She's going to think "WTHey?" She might even come to you. If she doesn't, that is ok too. You didn't ask her to. You asked her to "Leave it". You didn't say, "Hon, I need you to stop bothering the cat, go and get your own toy, quietly now and then go an lay down for a while. I need to find some asprin because you are on my last nerve."

Catching her and punishing her is actually punishing her for following your command. 

Be very careful not to punish her for doing exactly what you have asked her to do. If she is running pell mell through your house, she has followed your "leave it" command. Grab a toy - play with her (never chase). 

Also remember to throw a party EVERY time she follows your "leave it" command. If she is laying on the cat, slobbering all over it, and you tell her to "leave it" and she stops even for a moment to look at you...THROW A PARTY! Make her think you are much more fun then that ole' stinky cat.


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## Rerun

Dogs don't respond to "time outs" in the manner that people do.

Get an x-pen and use it. The dog should NEVER have loose time in the house at this age. Puppies are like babies, they just can't understand these things. Always have a drag line on the pup and NEVER call your pup to you to punish it in any manner. You will come to regret this VERY quickly if you continue, because your dog will never come in the future! 

Use teh x pen or crate when you can't 100% supervise the pup. 100% supervise means eyes on the puppy, not just in the same room, or general area.


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## Sierra's Mom

Rerun said:


> Dogs don't respond to "time outs" in the manner that people do.
> 
> Get an x-pen and use it. The dog should NEVER have loose time in the house at this age. Puppies are like babies, they just can't understand these things. Always have a drag line on the pup and NEVER call your pup to you to punish it in any manner. You will come to regret this VERY quickly if you continue, because your dog will never come in the future!
> 
> Use teh x pen or crate when you can't 100% supervise the pup. 100% supervise means eyes on the puppy, not just in the same room, or general area.


I never ever call her to punish her. I never call her unless its for fun. or practice. I am actually suprised how many people do this then wonder why the dog doesnt come running.


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## Sierra's Mom

Lilie said:


> Using your scenario;
> 
> 
> What you could try is this:
> 
> Puppers is mauling the cat. You tell her "Leave It!" Puppers looks at you (you've redirected her attention but not stopped the behavior) You stand up (you intend on enforcing the command) the MOMENT she stops - even if she takes off - you drop to your knees and say, "Good girl! Good girl! Puppy! Puppy! Puppy! Good girl!" Throw a party! She stopped the behavior! Great job! She's going to think "WTHey?" She might even come to you. If she doesn't, that is ok too. You didn't ask her to. You asked her to "Leave it". You didn't say, "Hon, I need you to stop bothering the cat, go and get your own toy, quietly now and then go an lay down for a while. I need to find some asprin because you are on my last nerve."
> 
> .


Love this! The last part made me laugh! Thanks! Will try it out.


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## carmspack

Lillie you beat me to it. That is exactly what I was going to suggest. The OP is training her dog to avoid .
She should have been the better choice , harrass cat not as rewarding as GOING to person who will provide praise , treat, and at the same time do something (clip dog on lead) to prevent the problem behaviour, or at least if the dog sets out to rejoin the game to divert and call back and reward again. This way the dog trusts the handler .
Pup running with shoe , call her in to you, ask her to "bring" and praise, teach her "leave it" and praise . You can turn this in to "bring your leash" , "bring dad his paper" etc. When she brings the shoe thank her , be calm , don't grab the shoe and turn it into a tug game. Ask her to "give" . A moment later ask her to "take" . Praise. "Give" and "take" back and forth -- then walk over to wherever the shoe's partner is and put it down and ask her to leave it. The moment she walks away with you praise her.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## doggiedad

you're usuing the crate as a form of punishment. i think
a verbal reprimand at the time of the incident is better.



Sierra's Mom said:


> I also just want to clear up what I do as "punishment" is walk up and clip a leash on or grab her by her collar and walk her to her crate. I do not say a word while i do it. There is no scolding. Besides the leash in the house what else can I do? Will not chasing and saying a word help her get the idea that I am not into palying that game?


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## Lilie

carmspack said:


> *Lillie you beat me to it. That is exactly what* *I was going to suggest*. The OP is training her dog to avoid .
> She should have been the better choice , harrass cat not as rewarding as GOING to person who will provide praise , treat, and at the same time do something (clip dog on lead) to prevent the problem behaviour, or at least if the dog sets out to rejoin the game to divert and call back and reward again. This way the dog trusts the handler .
> Pup running with shoe , call her in to you, ask her to "bring" and praise, teach her "leave it" and praise . You can turn this in to "bring your leash" , "bring dad his paper" etc. When she brings the shoe thank her , be calm , don't grab the shoe and turn it into a tug game. Ask her to "give" . A moment later ask her to "take" . Praise. "Give" and "take" back and forth -- then walk over to wherever the shoe's partner is and put it down and ask her to leave it. The moment she walks away with you praise her.
> 
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


:lurking: I most likely learned it from your previous posts!


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## carmspack

well then it's been worthwhile -- lol
Carmen


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## Sierra's Mom

carmspack said:


> Pup running with shoe , call her in to you, ask her to "bring" and praise, teach her "leave it" and praise . You can turn this in to "bring your leash" , "bring dad his paper" etc. When she brings the shoe thank her , be calm , don't grab the shoe and turn it into a tug game. Ask her to "give" . A moment later ask her to "take" . Praise. "Give" and "take" back and forth -- then walk over to wherever the shoe's partner is and put it down and ask her to leave it. The moment she walks away with you praise her.
> 
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


PLEASE, PLEASE tell me the best way to train her to do this! This is so postive and i think it will be so helpful with any leave it/drop it issues we are having.

Though I will say at puppy class we were taught not to use take it for any forbidden items. She knows "take it" but not "give it". She knows drop it but i think its now kinda negative with her because she eats everything and is constantly having things taken away outside after being told to drop them.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Sierra's Mom said:


> PLEASE, PLEASE tell me the best way to train her to do this! This is so postive and i think it will be so helpful with any leave it/drop it issues we are having.
> 
> Though I will say at puppy class we were taught not to use take it for any forbidden items. She knows "take it" but not "give it". She knows drop it but i think its now kinda negative with her because she eats everything and is constantly having things taken away outside after being told to drop them.


Trading games. If she's constantly having things taken away, no wonder she runs away from you! Start the game with HER stuff - balls, toys, bones. With the ball you can throw it (or roll it a few feet) and when she gets it act happy ("good girl!") and run backwards a few feet, encouraging her to come to you. Stick a treat right up to her nose, and when drops the ball to get the treat, mark it ("yes!"), let her eat the treat and then throw the ball again. 

With toys, either a tug or a long skinny toy, you can hold onto one end of it so she can't run off with it. Tug for a few seconds, trade for a treat, then give the toy back and tug some more. Hold a bone for her to chew and do the same thing - trade for a treat, then give the bone back, but keep holding onto the other end. You can trade tug toys for the ball, the ball for a tug toy or a bone, or a bone for a ball. Start adding your command (I use "give", but you can use "out" or "aus", which is German for out, "drop it", whatever you want), right before you show her the treat or whatever else you have to trade. Once she's consistently giving stuff up for a treat, stop putting it up to her nose and reward her from the treat bag, your pocket, or a bowl on a nearby counter or shelf, and then phase out food rewards altogether, rewarding with continuation of play. I like to add a sit and some eye contact too, before giving the toy back, so rather than staring at the toy she's giving attention to YOU. 

If you see her with a toy or a bone, encourage her to bring it to you, and trade it for a treat then give it back. Do this with a variety of things several times a day, every day. If she learns that she can pick up a toy and bring it to you and she'll get a nice piece of cheese or freeze dried liver or lamb jerky or whatever, and she ALSO gets the treat back, she'll be picking up stuff and bringing it to you all the time. And when she does get something that she's not supposed to have and you're not able to give it back to her it won't be a big deal because that foundation will be firmly established. Running away and teaching her that chasing you is the best game ever is also a good idea, much better than her learning how much fun running away from you playing keep away is.

This can backfire - Halo LOVED to steal things like eyeglasses, the remote, used knives off the kitchen counter, pot holders, brushes off the bathroom counter, all sorts of weird things, and she'd bring them to me for a trade, lol! I never ever EVER scold her for doing this - yes, it was bad to take the remote off the coffee table, but it was GOOD to bring it to me and give it up without a battle, and I want coming to me and bringing me whatever she has in her mouth, be it one of her toys or a butcher knife (yes, really! :rofl, to be a good thing. She also likes us to hold a bone for her while she chews it, she'll sit in front of us with a bone and wait for one of us to grab the other end. I turned this into a game I call "Can I Have That?" (she had already brought me the bone and let me have it before I started the video):






She trusts me to take her bone away because she knows I'm going to give it back to her. This is obviously not our formal "give", where she has to immediately give me whatever she has, this is a voluntary thing where we're playing a game that she enjoys, and that she actually invented.


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