# More Than a Prong Collar



## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Baron (now age 14 months) had been walking along quite nicely on his Perfect Pace Head Halter until with the assistance of a growth spurt he was delighted to discover that he was able to reach my shoulders when he reared up and if he twisted just at the right moment, he could get the noseband off. Even though the halter still held with the safety lead that attached it to his collar and there was still control from the back as it then worked like those slip leashes at the vet's, without the noseband he was free to pull. But Baron, I told him, "the only thing left is the prong collar and the links will get caught up in your lovely long coat, and you will still need to wear the second safety collar, the prongs go all around your throat, and I am concerned about your trachaea, and last but not least, the biker chain look is not very becoming to you!" So, I thought to myself, there must be something more fashionable and yet functionable, so my search led me to A Secret Powers Collar from Lola Limited. Lola Limited | Lola's Unique Dog Collars & Leashes LLC Oh my, the lovely choices of color and patterns, the prongs are not in the trachea area, there is no need for a backup collar, no chains,some or all of the prongs can be removed, and no getting caught up in his long coat. Baron did find to his dismay that his jumping up antics are no longer fun for him :grin2:


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Stylish designs, but I can't help wondering if the hole in the prongs renders the collar less effective than a traditional prong collar. 

I look forward to hearing updates as you work more with this collar.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

It resembles the Keeper Collar from Leerburg, which worked great for my dogs. They are pricey though.
The only reason I switch form a regular prong is the convenience of the clip and that it can't come off.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

All I see is a prong style hidden by a fabric collar. What is the difference?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

They work well. My wife had a regular prong collar come apart as she was about to cross a road walking Ranger. Luckily he managed to “Mr Magoo” his way across safely. This incident had my wife on a search to find something more secure and came across the Lola ones.


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## cz_gsd (Aug 21, 2018)

Nigel said:


> They work well. My wife had a regular prong collar come apart as she was about to cross a road walking Ranger. Luckily he managed to “Mr Magoo” his way across safely. This incident had my wife on a search to find something more secure and came across the Lola ones.


I use a nylon slip collar as a backup to the prong. Just get it a bit big so it sits lower on the neck than the prong, and remains loose when the leash is clipped to the prong live ring and the slip collar ring. That way if the prong comes apart, you still have leash control.


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## dogbyte (Apr 5, 2002)

I love my Keeper Collars. Not to anger anyone, but the Keeper collars may be more $$ but well worth it. The Lola collars appear to be much more cheaply made. They are not as much of a correction as a regular prong. But I get the buckle on kind as they have ,more adjustment for my dogs especially Gunny who is only 14 months.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Personally, I would not use any of those prong collars, especially the rubber tipped one. A high quality prong collar like a Herm Sprenger will rarely if ever come apart. Cheaper ones most certainly will. I would not use a head halter either, but that is me. I feel so bad for those dogs being walked down the street with a Halti or a head halter. I think how much better life would be for the poor dog if it's owner just did some basic obedience or learned to handle their dog. My dogs wear a prong, they have no issues, no trachea damage and mine have never come apart. But, I train and work my dogs and expect them to know how to walk or heel properly on a leash. I am also a very fair, loving and caring owner who truly does what is best for my dogs. 

It is nice to hear that the OP found something better to use than a head halter, that is progress and your dog will thank you for it.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Slamdunc said:


> Personally, I would not use any of those prong collars, especially the rubber tipped one. A high quality prong collar like a Herm Sprenger will rarely if ever come apart. Cheaper ones most certainly will. I would not use a head halter either, but that is me. I feel so bad for those dogs being walked down the street with a Halti or a head halter. I think how much better life would be for the poor dog if it's owner just did some basic obedience or learned to handle their dog. My dogs wear a prong, they have no issues, no trachea damage and mine have never come apart. But, I train and work my dogs and expect them to know how to walk or heel properly on a leash. I am also a very fair, loving and caring owner who truly does what is best for my dogs.
> 
> It is nice to hear that the OP found something better to use than a head halter, that is progress and your dog will thank you for it.


I agree, in all my years of using prongs I have NOT ONCE had one come apart! Scold me, I don't use a back up collar on my dogs. I cannot even imagine how that happens... (anyone have a video of it? I would love to try to understand the physics of that lol), for that to happen the dog would certainly have to be pulling way harder than I would be comfortable allowing and damaging the trachea among other things. Yikes.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> I agree, in all my years of using prongs I have NOT ONCE had one come apart! Scold me, I don't use a back up collar on my dogs. I cannot even imagine how that happens... (anyone have a video of it? I would love to try to understand the physics of that lol), for that to happen the dog would certainly have to be pulling way harder than I would be comfortable allowing and damaging the trachea among other things. Yikes.


It happens and I have seen it happen. It has happened in my Patrol school with a new handler and cheap Petco prong collar. If the collar is not fitted properly, not inspected before use and the prongs become bent or misshapen it can happen. Some people use a slip collar as a back up, I do not. It is a good idea, I just do not have a need to do it. I can quickly glance at a prong collar on a dog's neck and see if a prong is out of line or not put on properly. Sometimes, people will only get one half of a prong connected when they go to snap it on the dog. With the cheap collars, prongs get bent and don't fit right. Novice handlers put the collar on incorrectly and it pops off. It does happen. 

I have a routine who putting a prong collar on a dog. I've used prong collars every day on dogs when working, playing, walking and training since the mid 90's. I visually inspect the collar before placing it on the dog's neck. I fit the collar up high on my dog's neck and connect the open links. I run my fingers around the collar to make sure all the links are properly connected. This takes about 10 seconds and I have never had one pop off my dogs.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks for your interesting comments everyone! Just to reply to a few points that came up:

This Leerburg video explains why a backup collar is recommended to use with a prong collar:






The Secret Powers collar (which has 2 patents) is not just a covered prong collar. If I were to describe it, I would say it is a hybrid of a martingale and a prong collar. As my post stated, there are no chains, the prongs do not cover the trachea, some or all of the prongs can be removed, there is no need for a backup collar, there are no links to have to be removed or added to fit the dog. I did get the one with a snap so after I adjusted the strap to fit, I can just snap it on and off. I also considered the Keeper collar but Baron is still growing and the Secret Powers sizes gives more room for growth plus I preferred the color and pattern choices. I also have the option of geting a matching leash. It is very well made. Years ago, I ordered collars and leashes (Baron's at home collar is on of their's that is a hand-me-down from Sting) from a small company that also did horse tack. Sadly they are no longer in business. So when I compared the collars, the thickness of the material, the snap, stitchwork is the same. 

For use in walking which is what I use it for, I have to say that in regard to pulling, I noticed no difference from using the head halter. I was a bit hesitant as Baron is a strong stubborn puller and I had read that a head halter is more effective for that. What it does do is to stop the antics - Baron was getting quite heady with power once he learned the knack of rearing up and twisting and loosening the noseband, he was turning his walks into wrestling matches. Now he can only do that during his tug/play time sessions which though he ends up winning, I set the time and place for


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## clipke (Nov 14, 2017)

To be honest I see having a stylish prong like collar a bit overkill. My dogs tend to not wear collars at all once they're in for the night. It's more comfortable for them to sleep without a collar on. A collar like this can't be comfortable for 24/7 use, so I just don't see a point in needing one to be stylish. They wear a normal collar and a prong or harness when we go out.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

@Mary Beth have you used a prong collar before? Going by previous posts I'm leaning toward no. If this is correct I'd suggest working with a trainer to get a full understanding of how they can be used, fitted, and eventually worked away from.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

*@Nigel* Yes, you've guessed right and yes, that is way it should be done, but the nearest trainer is nearly 200 miles away, so I watched videos and read. What helped was that the Pace Walker Head Halter I had been using, requires a light touch and no jerking or gripping of the leash, it also fits like a prong collar and the leash attaches to the back. So Baron was used to that and I was used to holding the leash lightly. The Secret Powers collar is easy to fit and both the website and Facebook site were helpful. It has been a week now and is going very smoothly. I think what helped is that Baron does know how to walk nicely, it is just that he figured out a way to "beat the system" with the head halter. The first day, he didn't do the prong collar dance but after starting out nicely as he was his way, then, he decided to act up - he let out such a loud yelp when he felt the prongs (and all I was doing was holding the leash) that people across the street turned to stare. And *@Clipke*, though I get your point, this is also the reason I wanted this type of collar - it was a difficult decision and I don't want to have to explain it to well meaning people who think I'm being cruel to my dog. The collar looks like a pretty martingle collar.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I can see where if he were just wearing a prong and not covered and he yelped like that, people watching would get the wrong impression but that yelp, as you know was probably just a yelp of frustrated surprise.

I did and have looked at those collers and one of my most major concerns is that they offer or use rubber coated/or maybe they are slipped on prong tips. Imho (I say this very sincerely) any prong needing a rubber coating would be a big red flag concerning how those prongs were machined and made. I didn't see any info concerning who their prong suppliers are.

Mo is based on 1st hand experience (way back when) While waiting for my Herm Springer to come in, I used a rubber tipped cheap prong collar. The rubber split so when I took the rubber off, and the prong itself was very poorly made/machined. 
@Mary Beth, good for you in considering a different approach for your young guy and being willing to expand for the sake of your guy. I think many have had to do this including myself. It wasn't easy for me either but I got over that. I kept reminding myself that I was doing what best for us. I'm not celebrating the fact that you are using the prong but the fact that you made a decision that wasn't easy for the sake of your guy.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

*@Heartandsoul*I ordered the collar without the plastic tips. The tips are rounded and before I put the collar on Baron, I put it on my neck in the proper position right under the ears and adjusted it to be snug. I gave it a quick pop and I just felt as others have said only as if someone had roughly grabbed me to get my attention. So thank you for the explanation and also the words of encouragement as it helped me to I realize that he was just surprised and he hasn't done that since. I have to confess that if I had ordered a Herm Springer, it would still be in the package. With these pretty hidden prong collars I don't have to think about the prongs since I can't see them and I can concentrate as one of trainer's videos I watched said, on using it to have a conversation with Baron.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

I'm not all that familiar with prongs, what is the difference between prong collars with plastic tips and no plastic tips?


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## Beau's Mom (Nov 9, 2017)

I bought a Secret Powers collar for Beau based on one trainer’s recommendation. Another trainer who actually works and lives with GSDs told me to use it for walking if I want to, but he didn’t recommend it for training. He says the SP collar doesn’t close as effectively as a regular prong, and that the design kind of defeats the purpose of a pinch collar. (Don’t know if that is fact, anyone feel free to correct it.) He gave me a Herm Sprenger prong to use in our training sessions. I tried each of them on walks, and Beau is definitely more responsive to the Sprenger prong. It is nice to have the prongs hidden, though.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

*@McGloomy* this is from an ebay ad for plastic caps that can be used on any prong collar: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Herm-Spren...stic-Cover-Caps-x20-3-0mm-3-2mm-/262475933536
"Prong collar plastic cover caps are an ideal accessory to safely introduce your dog to the benefits of a prong collar by increasing the surface area in contact with the neck offering additional comfort. They remove the potential to mark the fur of light coloured dogs, and protect the coat of short haired breeds." 
Since my Baron is a long coat and dark sable, I went with the plain tips.

*@Beau's Mom* Yes, I had also read those comments on the Leerburg, Dobermann, and Golden forums, but posters who were pleased with the Secret Powers use it for walking. Many like my experience, had their dogs trained on other tools to walk nicely but the dogs found a way to get around the tool. Baron is doing very well now on his walks. Today was a good example of before and after. At the start of the walk, a class of junior high students were jogging to the football field - one kid shouted "there's a German Shepherd" - then another lady greeted me in a high cheerful voice, a man had his lab off leash coming at us, when he saw a GSD, he recalled his dog, a man was walking a little yappy dog on a flexi leash. All of this Baron walked calmly by. Before he would have jumped up - turned to me - went into his wrestling with me. I would get him to sit and then walked on until his next "melt down". So, this pretty Secret Powers collar is giving me all the control I need.

More comments and a photo from users of the Secret Powers collar are on this older thread from 2012 - please keep in mind the website has improved since then as I had no trouble ordering from it and now they have a Facebook page.

https://www.germanshepherds.com/for.../176203-secret-power-collars-lolalimited.html


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Please do not put rubber tips on a prong collar or buy a collar with rubber or plastic tips or prongs.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

Slamdunc said:


> Please do not put rubber tips on a prong collar or buy a collar with rubber or plastic tips or prongs.


Just curious, why not? The prong collar that I have has removable plastic tips on them


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

McGloomy said:


> Just curious, why not? The prong collar that I have has removable plastic tips on them



Because a properly designed and manufactured prong collar will be machined to have smooth, rounded prongs. Used properly, it will not hurt or damage your dog's neck or trachea. I only use a Herm Sprenger collar that is made in Germany. It is well designed and machined. Over the years I have bought other collars and quite frankly they are garbage. I have one in my shed with the rubber tips that I bought years ago that had rubber tips. Not only where the prongs garbage, the chain was poor and overall worthless. 

A prong collar is designed to give a correction if needed. Putting rubber tips on a prong just diminishes it effectiveness and functionality. The worst thing a dog owner can do is buy a cheap prong collar. Besides being poorly made, they can pop off and actually cause some unnecessary pain to the dog. 

A herm Sprenger is going to be even all the way around, and contrary to the popular myths it is also designed to NOT do any damage to the trachea. I'm willing to bet that more dogs are injured by head halters. They are just as bad as a cheap prong collar, IMO. 

Regarding head halters, if a dog owner needs to use one to walk their dog they need to reevaluate their handling and training ability.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I just don't believe in ***** footing around, if you need a prong then get one. I don't care about random strangers opinions and if they choose to comment on my dogs collar they generally get the sharp edge of my tongue which is much worse then a prong.
Ineffective or weak corrections are cruel, in my opinion. They accomplish nothing and prolong the problem. Like every other living being, your dog has a right to know that it's actions have consequences.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

Thanks, @Slamdunc! I definitely did not know about that but I use choke collar, Herm Springer as well.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

*@Sabis mom* I understand your point and it is to your credit that you have the courage of your convictions and the willingness to speak up, but there are also others where public perception is very important. My Baron is not a service dog, he is a pet, I believe your gsd is the same. When I was researching prong collars, it was a thread on the Leerburg forum that led me to the Hidden Powers collar from a disabled veteran whose service dog had been trained with a prong collar and he continued to use it but the his vet was very much against prong collars. He did not want to change vets because this vet made house calls. Since his vet was a visiting vet who traveled to his patients, he frequently met him while he was out in public with his service dog. One of the posts recommended the Hidden Powers collar. 

*@Slamdunc* Thank you for your posts on the excellence of the Herm Sprenger collar. My thread was not intended to in anyway criticize that collar. I simply wanted to present another option for others like myself who were being walked by their dog, and realize the need for a different tool.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Way back when I first started using the prong, I was very sensitive to public awareness and how we were perceived and walked him round town 1-2x daily. My goal was to get him well behaved and also achieve a good example. Not easy when working on reactivity. Anyway, to counter balance the negative perception of me using the prong, I made it a point to do fun short obedience exercises while walking in town, using treats. I was pretty animated in my praise and treating making sure the treating was very visible.

I wanted people (neighbors and towns people, about town and in the park to see that just because a prong was on him did not mean that he was being trained with brute force which many who gave the looks seemed to believe.

I know that what I did did help with perception. It's just something to consider since the prong is visible but often times, the actual method with which a person trains while using the prong is not.

As a side note, I really don't care how people view us as long as we are well behaved and I don't often have treats with me as fun and praise usually satisfies my boy. Lol.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

*@Heartandsoul* I'm sure you that set an outstanding example for the proper use and training with a prong collar since you have no issues with using it. For myself, it has always been a last resort when nothing else would work and I hoped never to have to use it. I took me 2 months to face the fact that Baron's behavior was at the point where I had to use it. I found the hidden one that I could accept putting on him, and even then inspite of the good comments and reviews, I nearly cancelled the order. I am able to use this type because it is hidden and it does work for Baron who is now walkng nicely along. I started this thread also to share my experience to help others who are on the fence like I was with the prong collar and that a hidden one may be easier for them to accept and use. And I appreciate everyone's input.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Mary Beth said:


> *@Heartandsoul* I'm sure you that set an outstanding example for the proper use and training with a prong collar since you have no issues with using it. For myself, it has always been a last resort when nothing else would work and I hoped never to have to use it. I took me 2 months to face the fact that Baron's behavior was at the point where I had to use it. I found the hidden one that I could accept putting on him, and even then inspite of the good comments and reviews, I nearly cancelled the order. I am able to use this type because it is hidden and it does work for Baron who is now walkng nicely along. I started this thread also to share my experience to help others who are on the fence like I was with the prong collar and that a hidden one may be easier for them to accept and use. And I appreciate everyone's input.


Please laugh with/at me as I respond because in no way shape or form was I a good example in using the prong in the beginning. It took a while, long while, to learn and during the process, the public saw the worst of us also. Just like you, the prong was my last resort, I would have and very much wanted to use a front clip harness back then but a calcium lump at the base of his neck near the shoulder could be aggravated so I abandoned that. Back then I remember reading your post about how well the harness worked for your dog, Sting?, and wishing I could do that also. 

Your comment of being a good example brought back a lot of memories and situations we were in while learning each other and using the tool. Made me realize just how far we have come. 


It takes a lot of guts and love for your (general your) dog to step outside the comfort zone. And it isn't just about prongs, but about changing a preferred method to a new one. I have seen someone who uses prongs and praise only grab some treats out of frustration because the dog was not responding. It can go both ways. 

My reply about the treats and the obedience exercises was just a general suggestion for anyone reading and worrying about public perception because doing that helped me. I should have stated that when I posted it.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

*@Heartandsoul* Thank you for sharing your beginning prong collar experiences and also that it was not your first choice. Your post helped me to smile as I go through my own greenhorn phase. I can also now understand that it was better I went through the progression of using a martingale, choke chain, front-ring harness, ( that was a big disappointment as the harness worked so well with Sting), head halter, to the prong collar. At least I know that nothing else is going to work as well for Baron. Today he decided to test the rules during the walk. He was on a sit/stay while I bent down to pick up his droppings. The second my back was turned, he jumped on me. Then reared up and was all set for a wrestling match. All I had to do was to raise the leash up slightly. He sat right down and held his sit/stay until I was finished. I did give him treats for holding the sit/stay so I did understand your comments about the treats.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Baron poses with his new Secret Powers training collar on this afternoon's walk. This walk was a good practice for him as squirrels are his obsession. After the first half rear when he saw one, he settled down to his walk and calmly passed a total of 6 squirrels.


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