# Confused



## Prince (Feb 26, 2010)

Hi All,
Need some help in choosing a breeder. I live in Riverside, CA and I'm aware that there are a few local breeders. I guess the real problem is that I really don't know what to look for in a GSD. I just recently bought a Lab, he is 3 months old. I wanted a family companion plus a guard dog. He's a good companion but as far as the guard dog is concerned, I don't see it in him. He puts the cartoon character Goofey to shame. Anyhow, in addition to the qualities that I mentioned, I want a dog that is very energetic and very smart almost intuitive. I have three kids, 12, 6 and a 3 year old. Plus I am an avid runner and outdoor enthuisist. We have a medium sized yard in which he will share with the Lab. I need to know what to look for in a pup, like which gender should I select, what to look out for as far as temperament. Any little bit helps. And once I sort through the puppy specifics, then I'll research the breeders.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I see two problems with this scenario

1) Not all GSDs have the temperment to be a "guard" dog so if that is why you are buying one then you either need to rethink getting a puppy or research reputable breeders to find an adult. Personally, I cringe every time I see someone looking for a "guard" dog. 

If you do get a puppy then you need to find a good breeder that has very stable dogs and let them select the puppy for you.

2) Having two puppies at the same time is an incredibly bad idea. Two puppies are 4 times the work and training. They will bond with each other rather than you and your family.

What kind of training are you willing to put into your puppy? At 3 months old, you have no idea what kind of temperment your lab will have two years from now. Why did you buy a lab if you wanted a different kind of dog? Why did you decide you wanted a GSD instead of Doberman, Rottie, Collie (yes..my collie was a better "guard" dog than my GSD is). 

Energetic, smart, intuitive, good with kids, outdoor enthuisist, runner, yard is fine...everything fits except the "guard" dog thing.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Most of the best breeders won't sell you another puppy until the Lab is a bit older. They know the following:

http://www.uvhs.org/behavioral_docs/double_trouble.pdf

Raising 2 pups at one time in a Family Setting

So unless you wait a year or so, you may be pulling out some of the better breeders from you choice list.

Additionally, my first puppy I raised was a Lab and I thought I was just the most natural puppy raiser ever because my Maggie was just so perfect. Then I got my next puppy 5 years later, a GSD, and reality set in. Apparently, the very characteristics that make this breed so great for herding, search and rescue, bomb dogs, police dogs, agility dogs, obedience dogs........................ are the very characteristics that make them QUITE a challenge the first few years.

I HAVE to off leash exercise WITH my GSD puppies at least a few hours every other day or they drive me crazy with their energy and mis-behaving around the house. I HAVE to go to weekly dog classes for months or I don't get the skills to have an obedient dog I can live with. I HAVE to take the puppy out of the house to socialize with friends, other dogs, family, car rides every week or I would have a good chance of having a fear aggressive dog that won't allow anyone in the house but my close family.....

SO, to me, raising a puppy is hard. Raising a GSD puppy is harder.

When the fact is, security wise, a loud barking LAB in the house will scare a burglar just as much as a loud scary GSD. I also know this is true because security wise, I had just as many people act leery when they couldn't see my barking Lab as when they can't see my barking GSD. Why bother robbing ANY house with a BIG DOG when down the street there's another house with no dog at all............................


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Why not start working the lab in Schutzhund. I know, I know a Lab???

Well, let me just say that Jefferson, Ohio has a Police dog, Fred. He is a yellow lab. I guess he had to pass the police dog trials. 

So, if you have a nice stable lab, maybe you can join your local schutzhund club and train, train, train your little lab. In two or three years, you will have seen a lot of GSDs and will have learned a lot about schutzhund and other protection sports. Your lab will no longer be a puppy and will, at least, have a solid obedience background. 

Then it will be time for a good GSD match for your resident lab. 

Good luck.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

At 3 months old, your lab puppy should be goofy. You have no idea how his adult personality will turn out. No puppy at 3 months is protective. What people usually label as protective is actually fear. A fearful dog does not make a good guard dog, and makes an even worse pet to have among your family. Love your lab, train your lab, he may surprise you as he starts to mature. 

Also agree with the others. 2 puppies together is about the worst thing you can do. I know, I had 2 at once and it's a full time job if you're going to do it right. And if you're not going to do it right, you shouldn't do it.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

My question would be for you define what you mean when you say "Guard" dog.
That term could cover a wide range of capabilities many of which would be very adequetly handled by your lab. as someone said above - a barking dog can act as a very effective deterrent to many people.

Or do you want a Personal protection dog trained to attack on command and defend you to the death?

maybe some thing in the middle = Schutzhund trained dog.

maybe just a naturally protective dog (like most GSD's and a lot of other dogs)

Or maybe an "Alarm" dog who will bark at strangers but may not really be big enough to do much else (i.e. a small terrier breed comes to mind).

First decide that and THEN decide if you want to get another dog.

(BTW - maybe an adult dog if you need a "guard" dog right away?)


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Consider a well trained, thoroughly socialized 'deterrent dog' rather than an actual guard dog. Any large, athletic dog provides an effective deterrent to baddies. Your Lab should mature into a decent deterrent dog. An improperly bred, poorly trained or mismanaged guard dog is a menace, a liability & highly unfair to surrounding innocent people. 

People know so little about dogs they can't distinguish b/w a 5mo GS pup & an adult! They know so little they think any large dog is scary. Sadly, they know so little that they even breed aggressive Labs, Goldens & St Bernards which effectively means any large dog *might* be menacing!

I love multiple dogs, though multiple puppies are something else. IF you want 2 dogs & can't wait, consider an adult. IMO, they're much, much better than pups. Easier, smarter & far more engaging. Breeders, rescues & shelters are all potential sources for an adult.

IF it's gotta be a pup consider waiting 'til your current baby has matured some. At a minimum 9mos, but preferably 15-24mos. Note that Labs mature very slowly. Your guy could become a challenging adolescent...sweet, yes, but also willful, rambunctious & opinionated.


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