# Trouble Finding a Suitable Protein - Southern Ontario



## Flutter (Aug 2, 2013)

Our dog has never really thrived. Went though 10+ kibbles trying to find a suitable one. Then tried raw and he did quite well but his allergies continued throughout the winter without getting better. Switched to a hydrolyzed protein prescription kibble to try and calm his immune system and prep him for allergy testing. Allergy testing is now complete and we're trying to find a more appropriate food for him. 

Turns out he's allergic to:
-all birds
-all ruminants
-rabbit

So that leaves us with pork/boar and fish. I've found a pork meat/organ grind however it does not contain bone and therefore isn't suitable to feed. Any fish we've tried he's refused to eat nor have I found an affordable source. Our budget is limited. 

We have found a kibble that doesn't contain anything that we know he's allergic to (Back to Basics Pork) but we'd like to at least feed some raw as that's what he's done best on so far. We're at a loss of how to do that though so I have a few questions. 

1. How can we add pork/boar bone to this mix? I think I read that you can cook bones so much they turn to mush. 
2. Is there a supplement we can use to replace the bone?
3. Are there other proteins that we haven't thought of and do you know of a source in Southern Ontario that we can get it from for <$3/lb? Llama and alpaca may be suitable proteins since they are pseudo ruminants.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

have you thought about changing his digestive system?

lots of raw feeders give pork neck bones - raw and meaty , or pork ribs. 
fish ? you can get Indian Ocean tuna to feed whole.

where in southern Ontario are you?


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## Flutter (Aug 2, 2013)

What exactly does changing his digestive system mean? All I'm thinking of is a major organ system transplant and I'm sure that's not what you mean 

Are pork neck bones and ribs considered RMBs or recreational bones? Will he be able to eat those bones without damage to his teeth? 

We're in the GTA. Willing to go as far south as the London area and north to the Barrie area.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

changing his digestive system means providing digestive enzymes so that all proteins are broken down into absorbable , digestible material. Hydrolizing does this , a form of pre-digestion.

Probiotics change the bacterial flora of the gut , once again allowing for maximum digestion.

The dog is sensitized to protein when larger molecules by pass digestion, enter the blood stream , where a response to eliminate a foreign body , produces a histamine response "allergy" .

Pork neck bones are raw meaty bones . The ribs on the underbelly side are softer . 

GTA , lots of options. Waldorf Village Market . I am there every second Saturday -- just finished a session , so not this , but next --
How are you for lamb? That is a can do. This Week at the Village Market
HeronView Raw n Natural , Ashburn & Brawley , Brooklin Heronview Raw and Natural Pet Food

Country Lane Pet Resort http://clpr.ca/raw-food-and-orijen.html


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## Flutter (Aug 2, 2013)

Got it. How would we supply him with enzymes so that he could eat meats that he's less allergic to, that way we can give him variety. It doesn't hurt to try. 

The store we normally get our raw food from carries boar rib bones so we can add those in. 

Lamb is a no go since they're ruminants. The test for ruminants actually uses sheep epithelium so lamb is a definite no go. From experience we know beef is a really bad idea as well (though tripe seems to be ok?). 

I'm going to check out those links.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

start here - http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/diet-nutrition/340906-digestive-enzymes-probiotics-5.html


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

are you sure your dog is allergic to what you think it is or maybe the fillers in foods? our first dog had constant diarrhea, vomited a lot and developed a rash on her belly. we tried lots of different foods. the day we tried a limited ingredient grain free food she was normal. we now only feed nature's variety grain free limited ingredient kibble and she has been fine ever since. this might not be your dogs problem but also might be. you never know 'till you find the food your dog can eat without a problem.


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## Flutter (Aug 2, 2013)

We did intradermal allergy testing along with the most reliable blood test out there so we're pretty darn sure. We were going to do the saliva test as well but our regular vet and the allergy specialist both suggested not doing it because the research to back it up is... poor...

He is allergic to several fillers like corn, rice, potato, tomato, and wheat. Also allergic to alfalfa which rules out a lot of kibbles. Appears to be much more reactive to cooked chicken than raw in our experience. Even one piece of chicken kibble gives him diarrhea for days. Tried two different duck kibbles, one of them was the food you use and no good. 

Looking back he did best on a fish based grain free kibble but we haven't found a single kibble other than the Back to Basics Pork that doesn't contain something he's allergic to. We can't even use their fish kibble because it has potato IIRC.


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## Flutter (Aug 2, 2013)

Honestly, he may be able to tolerate other proteins in the future (fingers crossed) but now isn't the time to try them. We need to get his health under control before taxing him further.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Heron View has rabbit , buffalo , I am thinking they have venison at times , always lots of pork cuts .


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## Flutter (Aug 2, 2013)

Unfortunately he's allergic to rabbits and both bison and venison are ruminants.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Some novel protein foods:

Addiction’s Wild Kangaroo & Apples

Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Diets 

California Natural (Canned)

Blue Buffalo Wilderness (Dry)


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Home | East York Animal Clinic

or 

http://www.holistic-vet.ca/sasan/

I think you need to get a second opinion.

From what I understand (according to vet) allergy tests are only 60% accurate (blood) and slightly higher for dermal.

I would say do the saliva test, but don't feel it's comprehensive enough.

What the heck is ALL ruminants mean? Did they list every animal and you are giving readers digest version, or is this what vet told you?


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## Flutter (Aug 2, 2013)

Intradermal testing is the gold standard for both humans and animals. I fully trust those results. The blood test was done to support the intradermal and we got it at cost. 

With how strongly he reacted to sheep epithelium and chicken proteins the specialist said no ruminants and no birds (due to cross reactivity). Put that together with our experiences and it makes completalle sense. We need to get things under control and then we can carefully work at introducing new foods. There are several vets working together in the care of our dog and of them have more than a DVM. 

I will check out all of the links provided. Thank you!


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2008)

*RAW diet and Bloat*

Hi All

Me again.  

Bloat is unfortunately common in large dogs like German Shepherds. My last dog died of it at the age of 4 years. 

Does anybody know if there is a study that dogs who are fed RAW have less chance of bloating than dogs that get fed kibbles?


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