# Advice for prospective GSD puppy buyers



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

More owners should talk about the realities and more prospective owners need to do a heck of a lot more research before buying a breed like this that "they've always admired/wanted" primarily on looks or reputation.

What if more people were told or understood this breed needs an hour or two of intense exercise/training per day for the first year minimum?

What if they really understood these dogs are bred for chasing and biting and they will chase and bite mercilessly for months? Read ALL the puppy biting threads, not after your frustrated and exasperated with what should have been the totally anticipated reality, while you cry locked in your closet. How do you feel about cuts, bruises and blood all over you for a few weeks?

What if more prospective buyers knew (with a few exceptions) that they aren't good in apartments, aren't good without yards, aren't good in daycare or dog parks, needs significant exercise (not walks), brushing, mind challenges and a job to do regularly?

Would you buy a Rottweiler? No, those are the ones that bit a lot of kids
Would you buy a Doberman? No, they scare me
Would you buy a Siberian Husky, a Border Collie? No they need too much exercise or a job to do.
Would you buy a Golden Retriever? No, they shed too much!

I've always wanted a German Shepherd!

Well, they're not for everyone, not even for many who already own them. Without herding or large working dog experience, they just not a great choice for many. What if you HAD to do a sport with them in order to qualify to buy one, would you still do it and block off X hours per week for years?

Do your research, caveat emptor.

They're the best breed on 4 legs in my opinion but don't under estimate that they don't get there without a heck of a lot of work being put in.

There are likely 100 people on here with decades of GSD ownership individually. What in-all-transparency advice would you give people looking into GSD ownership? I'm hoping this thread might help some people head in with eyes wide open.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

I don't care how big your yard is, how bad the weather is or how crappy you feel, you need to be outside exercising, playing, and training with your GSD everyday, multiple times a day, for the next 14 years. 

Be honest with yourself, if you're going to only walk them a few times a week and just let them out in the back yard the rest of the time, then a GSD is not for you.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Excellent posts. I am afraid you can't cure GSD puppy fever though. If you have never had a land shark, you cannot imagine what that is like and you probably will brush the warnings aside. I hope these two posts can be made into one sticky.


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## Katiebob (Aug 9, 2021)

The biting! Reduced me to tears on more than one occasion! 

We'd like to get another pup in a few years (Juno is only 11 months) but I will need some time to forget how hard it was for the first few months. 

I thought I'd "done my research" but no amount of reading will prepare you. 

When she was about 13/14 weeks I had appendicitis - it came on slowly and I had a fortnight of feeling really rough before hubby took me to hospital. I was in hospital for a week and then a couple of weeks recovery after the op. Before hospital we had been taking it turns to get up in the night. with me away he had to everything. All the play, all the feeding, all the toilet breaks, all the training and when I came home he was EXHAUSTED!! I realise we were unlucky here but if one partner is incapacitated you will have to do EVERYTHING! 

She's incredible though.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Not that I agree with the approach, but think about consumers in general and how we use the internet. Think about how many posts start off with “i’m so excited to have found this forum, we pick up our 1st puppy next week” or “we just got our first gsd puppy last month…” or “after years of research i’m finally ready to get my first german sheppard”.

I love Volkswagens… they’ve treated me well over the years, my most recent car is a Tiguan… i did a little googling, saw some mixed reviews, nothing i didn’t think i wasn’t prepared to handle, made the purchase. last night my gas door got stuck… i googled how to get it open, came across a VW forum that looked interesting and joined. 4yrs later, when i ran into a problem. i think people do the same with dogs.

i’m curious tho, what we all did before? my first experience with a GSD is one crashing through our window and knocking over the christmas tree during our new year’s eve party in response to the fireworks back in 1989…..then watching a bunch of tipsy adults scurry around trying to figure out what to do at midnight on a holiday with this huge stray dog in the corner of our family room bearing teeth at anyone who approached. that and an encyclopedia. i got my first non family gsd at 19 and it was a whirlwind of an experience… but i was committed, the good and the bad.

i think commitment is just as vital as research. and there’s been somewhat of a generational(?) / societal(?) shift from what i’m seeing.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

You see research come up a lot. You see advice on going to meet dogs to see what they are like, and talk to their breeders and owners about what they are like and what it took to get there. Most likely if you’re here though, you already have the puppy. Having a dog of any age isn’t always fun. There’s things that come up. Two examples. A very well trained dog here chewed on a pair of glasses. My own dogs decided to chow down on some food that was left out last night. Not fun. You should however always be able to find good times with your dog. You should play. You should be excited to interact. Whenever you’re training it should be fun and exciting. It should be something you and your dog look forward to, not something you dread or the dog runs and hides from. I use crates. The biggest advantage I get with the crate is if the dog is too much for me in that moment or I get frustrated or start to lose my temper, I can just put the dog up and come back to them when I figure out my emotions. It’s not to say the crate is a punishment, but can serve as a useful break. If a training session isn’t going my way, I’ll find a positive note to end on and shift to just play. If I can’t find that positive note then I’ll just play. It has yet to kill me with any dog I’ve had.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

drparker151 said:


> I don't care how big your yard is, how bad the weather is or how crappy you feel, you need to be outside exercising, playing, and training with your GSD everyday, multiple times a day, for the next 14 years.
> 
> Be honest with yourself, if you're going to only walk them a few times a week and just let them out in the back yard the rest of the time, then a GSD is not for you.


Agreed.
But I have seen people say they don't walk/exercise them in the rain or cold for instance. I have seen people say their dogs "get plenty of play time" just being let out by themselves in the yard. How many times have we seen people think that a couple of walks down the block is enough to satisfy a GSD needs?

That's kinda the point of my post. Many people would never buy certain breeds because of their reputations or physical requirements but don't understand GSD beyond the looks and TV characters. I just want more people to go in with eyes wide open....and for the breed to become far less popular


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Have a trainer lined up. Do your research and find someone that is successful with the kind of dog you want. Check references. Attend group training. Get that out of the way before you need them.

Take the time to lay foundation early on. Marker training, engagement, luring, recall, fetch, tug, leave it, out, all can be started as soon as the pup walks in the door. I take 2 weeks off if I have a puppy coming in. I build that relationship and good habits from day 1.

Have fun with your dog. It's probably the most important part of training. It needs to be fun for everyone involved. Getting clients to relax and enjoy their dogs is a large part of what I do as a trainer. Shape those behaviors that you don't like into something that works for both of you. It's critical to look at things from the perspective of the dog and to give them what they want in a productive manner. You get to do this fun stuff if you put in a little work first.

Learning doesn't stop when "training time" is over. Just because you moved on to things other than focusing on the dog doesn't mean that your dog isn't learning something every second they are awake. Consider what your dog is learning during down time and how you can use that time to reinforce good behaviors.

Roll with the punches. You are going to make mistakes. Your dog is going to make mistakes. It's ok. Valor chewed up a rug yesterday. I did everything right. Plenty of mental and physical exercise earlier in the day. Checked on him a couple times. Left a few toys out. It happens. No big deal. Neither you nor the dog benefits from you getting upset. Just chalk it up to the price of dog ownership and do better tomorrow.

Remember your responsibility. You made the choice to bring this dog into your life. The responsibility to create an environment in which that dog will thrive is yours for the duration. There are no short cuts.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Agreed.
> But I have seen people say they don't walk/exercise them in the rain or cold for instance. I have seen people say their dogs "get plenty of play time" just being let out by themselves in the yard. How many times have we seen people think that a couple of walks down the block is enough to satisfy a GSD needs?
> 
> That's kinda the point of my post. Many people would never buy certain breeds because of their reputations or physical requirements but don't understand GSD beyond the looks and TV characters. I just want more people to go in with eyes wide open....and for the breed to become far less popular


This happens with all breeds. You wouldn't believe how many Cane Corso puppies go to completely unprepared homes. My first question to most people that talk to me about "help with their dog" is always, "why did you get that particular dog? You do know what they were bred for, right?"


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

For those of us who remember a time before the Internet....we read. I come from a family where reading was actively encouraged and have done so voraciously all my life. But I will say the access to forums such as this one, are invaluable when, as in my case, trying to narrow down a decision on whether a GSD would be appropriate for us (and us for one) in the long run.
I have often pictured the cringing from the experienced members every time I have seen a post starting off with "I just got my first dog, a WL GSD puppy". That comes seriously under the "OMG!" category, IMHO. And I have been immensely impressed with the supportive but candid responses from these members. I, personally, value the information given here.
I joined 9 months ago and we started discussing which breed we would have next when we lost our two current JRTs well before that. At 15+ years, it was an inevitability. We have lost one, in Sept, and her brother was just diagnosed with cancer yesterday, with a time frame of 2 - 6 weeks.
Are we prepared for a GSD puppy? For the most part, I think so. Our life style will fit as we are self-employed, outdoor workers where our job is performed often times with owners not present where gaining permission to have our dog on their premises will not be a problem. We do scheduled tree work 3 days a week with the other 4 flexible. We are active for our age, late 60s, and have planned playground/courses we can set up on our 20 acres to meet fun and challenging (age specific) activities that will enhance training, mental stimulation and exercise. And, be fun for us as well as him. Yes, he will be going on walks with me, but I understand the difference between "exercise" and "walks". 
Where I had my most concerns was the health problems this breed seems to inherently have and will be doing all we can to avoid pitfalls, including buying from a reputable breeder who is also committed to her brand. (Still researching the food issue to figure out best for puppy and affordable for humans.)
The breeder is also available for training, you and the dog, should you need it. And she is close. Which means we will be able to take advantage of her expertise and ask specific questions about her puppies and dogs if/when they come up.
The other concern I had was the grooming. We have only had "easy-to-care-for" dogs. I have already bought my Shark vacuum and have been reading the puppy threads on grooming.
Am I prepared for the landshark stage? I am sure we are going to have our moments of exasperation. And, yes, both my husband and I are in this together. But am I ready for the "cuts, bruises and blood"? My husband said to me when I joined him in the field as a grounds person for his being a climbing arborist: "You can't mind the bumps and bruises." That comes under the category of 'Massive Understatement'. Anyone who has ever chipped dead Russian olive can relate to the argument for wearing Kevlar. So, we will see. I have paid particular attention to the advise given from many of you on how to avoid these inevitable moments as best as possible. Then you go with the age old axiom: "Cowboy up and ride on!"
All of your advise and feedback are immensely appreciated!


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

A picture of my forearm to illustrate “cuts, bruises and blood” from a 3 months old puppy.


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## PNWBlue (Feb 27, 2021)

Boy, does that look familiar. I gave up a fair amount of blood for my current GSD. I have to keep his dew claws trimmed too. I view it as part of bonding. About the time the scars fade, another pup comes along.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

I'd like to see a 'sticky' here with a checklist of advice to prospective buyers of GSDs.

I'd like someone to write a PSA on determining temperament and health of parent dogs. 
There too many gsds bred with horrible temperaments and poor health outlooks in my area (Florida).
Teach buyers about BYB dogs. And the price you pay doesn't discount a poor quality dog with future vet bills. And future trainer bills because you can't handle a nervy or aggressive dog.
Since we have so many newbies coming here (often after the fact) we owe it to them to warn them.


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## jocelynh (Aug 20, 2018)

Thanks for this thread. I made an account here three years ago to lurk and follow discussions, and now I'm in one of the last stages before I can back out of committing to a GSD puppy (if all goes well), so the pictures of the "cuts, bruises, and blood" are a good reality check.

I've been trying to adjust my lifestyle over the past year or so in preparation (hikes every weekend and sometimes during the week, talking to people more experienced than me), talked to my manager so he knows I'll be taking a few weeks off when the time comes, and pretending that every cut I get is "practice"... but I know to some extent I'm deluding myself!

Appreciate all the responses so far, and looking forward to additional input from other experienced forum members in this thread.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

100% agree. But I was raised with a GS, so I always knew who they were. Usually takes a period of adjustment to come to terms with each other but it happens. Duke has been a challenge because he is such a big baby. He fidgits at night, cries for no reason anyone can figure, needs a night light ( a GS? really!?! a night light?!?!) and a white noise machine. He is not a typical, 'okay, I"ll take charge here' kind of GS. (If Elke, who is very confident, could roll her eyes, she would be wearing them out.)
But with that said, if people didn't go out and spend a lot of money for a beautiful dog they did not research or refused to accept was a handful we could not go to the shelter and get a great GS for $250 or less. We were talking yesterday about how they have all had very different personalities and I think that is some of what draws us to the breed. 
And Jocelyn, it sounds like you are gonna do fine with your lucky pup.


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

I'd have to say I ended up getting a GSD without knowing much about them, but I was committed to him and think that makes up for it. All the moldings in my house were chewed up, door frames ruined, scars all over my arms, hair everywhere. But I loved this dog so much seeing him and working with him to get better is the highlight of every single day in my life. I don't think you necessarily have to have that exact mentality, but you have to want to work, it has to be something you enjoy doing.

The problem is soooooo many people get one (cause they obviously are the cutest puppies ever) without considering that they grow bigger, and they are very smart and will literally ruin your life if your not taking care of them the way you should. I have a friend who absolutely hated Enzo when he was a puppy, especially after he was already big. Now I think if I turn my back for 1 second she would steal him from me, she is OBSESSED with him. That's part of the problem though. People will see your dog and see what a great dog they are, but don't consider all the work it took to get there. Enzo's not even 2 years old.. it took that long, and we still have a ways to go.

I hear people say this all the time and it ticks me off so much: "I wanted a big dog for protection" ... that untrained big dog might be barking and scaring every one away, but it's not protecting you it's protecting itself.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

melaniep said:


> People will see your dog and see what a great dog they are, but don't consider all the work it took to get there.


100%


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## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

WNGD said:


> What in-all-transparency advice would you give people looking into GSD ownership?


I think the BIGGEST piece of advice any potential puppy buyer needs to hear is that you need to remember, when you look at that adorable, tiny little puppy face, that they grow up. And fast. Don't expect your tiny little ball of fluff to STAY that way. They get much, much bigger. Plan and prepare for this.

Not much is worse than some impulsive puppy purchaser who goes "Oh, what a cute little baby. I MUST take you home." And then a few months later tosses the dog to the pound because "Well it just got too big." If this is going to happen, just buy a stuffed animal. Those stay the same size and cuteness as they were when you bought them and don't leave messes all over the floor or chew your shoes.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I had some mixes but our first GSD was from an excellent breeder and we lucked out. She had a high drive male puppy but would not sell him to us. Instead she had a slightly older female she trained for herself and to show, then decided we needed her more. So we got a dog that was housebroken, somewhat socialized, and had basic training. The breeder kept the male for herself. Our dog was still landsharking when she chased my children but it wasn’t too hard to stop that. We didn’t have GSD experience but we had dog experience. I got her into training right away and she became the perfect family dog. The male would not have worked out so well for us.

I think we should give people extra warning when they get a WL because it’s almost a different breed in terms of training and challenges.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

My dogs take work ethic, dedication and commitment. TONS OF FREE RUNNING SPACE. They literally exhaust me worse then children at times. I have spent countless hours with a difficult dog. They can not be easy for a first dog. They can be extremely difficult for a first dog. 

FIND A FANTASTIC BREEDER - MEET THEIR DOGS - OR ADOPT A DOG USING PROFESSIONAL METHODS lots of good dogs that need homes maybe foster first


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I got Harley as a 12 week old from a girl who had bought him AND his brother to add to her Pug and 14 year old daughter as a way to distract from a recent divorce 

She lasted 3 weeks with the two new little terrors until I rescued Harley one sunny Sunday. She emailed me a few weeks later and asked if I was having the same issues with him biting uncontrollably, chewing stuff up and going after the mailman. She bought for the wrong reasons, had no idea what she got herself into and no idea how to get out. I gave her some suggestions and never heard from her again....


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

WNGD said:


> I got Harley as a 12 week old from a girl who had bought him AND his brother to add to her Pug and 14 year old daughter as a way to distract from a recent divorce
> 
> She lasted 3 weeks with the two new little terrors until I rescued Harley one sunny Sunday. She emailed me a few weeks later and asked if I was having the same issues with him biting uncontrollably, chewing stuff up and going after the mailman. She bought for the wrong reasons, had no idea what she got herself into and no idea how to get out. I gave her some suggestions and never heard from her again....


Did she keep the sibling?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> Did she keep the sibling?


I really have no idea. She was a bit ticked that I wasn't having trouble with Harley.
I remember briefly considering telling her that I'd take the other pup because I knew it would do better with me but would still be a mistake. To be honest, my house wasn't ready for a second dog then either and not siblings.

Harley has great prey drive but has a great off switch. I think I got the better end of the deal.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

GSD07 said:


> A picture of my forearm to illustrate “cuts, bruises and blood” from a 3 months old puppy.
> View attachment 580414


Here is mine, courtesy of Hans. Taken June, 2012.
I never showed it to anyone. The fluffy buzzsaw destroyed my arms, and I covered each slash with New-Skin liquid bandage, which is why they look crusty.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Interestingly enough. I didn’t have the above problem with Rolf. He actually did take the toys I offered. Only nailed me once, when I wasn’t looking, and got me right next to a fingernail. The blood was quite dramatic, LOL.

Hans... oh, Hans. He would dodge any toy I stuck in his face, and go for my arms. 
Every evening, right after pooping, he would launch himself repeatedly and bite my....um, butt cheeks.
Thankfully, Rolf didn’t do that, either.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I'll also note that after asking dozens of times, no one has ever posted a video of what they consider an out of control, uncorrectable GSD puppy biter. I'm looking for that "holy cr*p, mine never did that" evidence.

If the dog does it all the time, sure someone can catch it on a cell phone....in this case, "video or it didn't happen"


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

Personally I don't think a GSD should be a first dog. Can it be done, sure. But ideally I think new owners should already have some experience reading body language and understanding that a dog has it's own mind and will challenge you. You need to be ready to recognize and respond to that in order to prevent a problem from escalating.

Timing is hugely important in training. We worked on recall around other dogs in a training class last weekend and I saw the point I would have recalled Nova, my boyfriend did not. She ignored his recall. He doesn't have enough dog experience to read that excitement level in her yet, while I'm on the sideline cringing knowing he's missed an opportunity to reinforce recall, instead she learned she could ignore him because she wasn't corrected either. One time, no big deal in the grand scheme of things, but if the owner were inexperienced and this happened a lot? Now you've got a dog who habitually ignores you.

Another example, Nova responded to an over excited pup with over arousal - deep growly bark, lunging forward. Um, no, unacceptable. Correction. Nova sit. Praise and reward. Problem solved, she's focused on me and ignoring the other dog. But without that correction that behaviour could become a pattern in the way she responds to dogs. Next thing you know it's escalated from over arousal to frustration to aggression and it's the dog's fault and they owners is going to a trainer after the problem has been created.

It's much easier to prevent a problem than to fix one. IMO an owner with a breed like a GSD should be experienced enough to recognize and prevent issues, whether it's on their own or by recognizing, hey, I should probably get some advice from a good trainer.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

bchevs said:


> Personally I don't think a GSD should be a first dog.


Unfortunately, true in many cases for a variety of reasons. They really are amongst the easiest dogs to train....or hardest depending on your skill level, desire to learn, abilities and commitment level.

This breed is not teach sit-lie-down-stay-come, put-them-out-in-the-yard and you're done dogs.


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## CEMC (May 2, 2020)

GSD07 said:


> A picture of my forearm to illustrate “cuts, bruises and blood” from a 3 months old puppy.
> View attachment 580414


I've seen that and much worse before, on me! 
Ours was a terror and nothing like anything we ever had before. You could not pet or hold the little monster without a cut or a hole in your extremities. He's now almost 2 and is almost totally out of it (plus his teeth aren't nearly as sharp) but once in a while a friendly hand is quickly received with an open mouth. A firm No is enough to stop it but you can never let your guard down with this guy. 
I am convinced that he will not be 100% out of it until he's at least 2-1/2 or 3 years old.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I wish I had video of the demon spawn litter. Lol.
They were probably my favorites of all the litters I fostered. I remember being on the phone with a friend who was struggling with her pup. I am dutifully uh-huhing her potty training disaster as I am standing in a puppy pen full of furry piranhas watching one climb my leg, as another attempts to shred my boot and trying one handed to remove the one swinging off my shirt sleeve while the remainder slaughter yet another work glove that they have skillfully removed from my hand.
They gleefully destroyed any item that entered their pen, they attacked any movement like a laser pointed swarm and I swear they slept in shifts to prevent any chance at escaping them!
Even Sabi was beginning to suspect that they had somehow slipped past Cerberus! I literally wore boots and gloves around them. Adorable little savages.
No one is changing anyone's mind. Sad reality.
The thing is that people look at pictures of sleeping puppies and the want that! Breeders should start posting pictures of scratched arms and bleeding hands, record shrieking puppies. Better yet follow the guy with the 14 month old female around with a camera as she whips from side to side like a demented wrecking ball, sixty pounds of fury venting it's wrath on all that dare to approach. Watch her intelligent, well employed, self assured owner reduced to a tearful zombie on the 6th walk of the day


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> I wish I had video of the demon spawn litter. Lol.
> They were probably my favorites of all the litters I fostered. I remember being on the phone with a friend who was struggling with her pup. I am dutifully uh-huhing her potty training disaster as I am standing in a puppy pen full of furry piranhas watching one climb my leg, as another attempts to shred my boot and trying one handed to remove the one swinging off my shirt sleeve while the remainder slaughter yet another work glove that they have skillfully removed from my hand.
> They gleefully destroyed any item that entered their pen, they attacked any movement like a laser pointed swarm and I swear they slept in shifts to prevent any chance at escaping them!
> Even Sabi was beginning to suspect that they had somehow slipped past Cerberus! I literally wore boots and gloves around them. Adorable little savages.
> ...


Post of the week! 
Thanks, I wish you had video too.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

We are the poster children for ignorance. I joined the forum AFTER we brought Athena home. I had no idea what to expect, and in my infinite inexperience, it just never occurred to me that Athena might be difficult because of her breed. Notwithstanding our lack of knowledge, having a GSD puppy has been an amazing experience. I have no idea why we have not had the issues discussed above. Maybe we were too dumb to recognize these puppy stages? Maybe we have an unusual GSD? I have no clue. We do spend a ton of time exercising, training, socializing, and just being with her. This is not because we HAVE to do it. It is because we WANT to do it. That is why we got a dog in the first place.


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

Ringhram said:


> We are the poster children for ignorance. I joined the forum AFTER we brought Athena home. I had no idea what to expect, and in my infinite inexperience, it just never occurred to me that Athena might be difficult because of her breed. Notwithstanding our lack of knowledge, having a GSD puppy has been an amazing experience. I have no idea why we have not had the issues discussed above. Maybe we were too dumb to recognize these puppy stages? Maybe we have an unusual GSD? I have no clue. We do spend a ton of time exercising, training, socializing, and just being with her. This is not because we HAVE to do it. It is because we WANT to do it. That is why we got a dog in the first place.
> View attachment 580491


Sometimes it does work out this way! The owners who are very committed to giving their dogs what they need tend to be successful because they will adapt for their dog. 

Then there's the dogs that just don't meet the velociraptor stereotype and who just adapt to your lifestyle. I grew up with a collie/shepherd mix that my parents never did much with other than when my mom took us kids for a walk Buster would come. She was an amazing dog and the reason I got into my herding breeds, but she definitely wasn't what you would expect in a shepherd or a collie. 

We also had a golden retriever who was a total monster for about 4 years 😂 I've never seen a puppy as bad as her hahaha. I swore off goldens for years until I met a couple that actually matched the breed standard in temperament lmao


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Ringhram said:


> I have no idea why we have not had the issues discussed above. Maybe we were too dumb to recognize these puppy stages? Maybe we have an unusual GSD? I have no clue


My Sabi was the easiest puppy I have ever raised! She was so completely the opposite of what I expected. So I do know that there are some easy pups around. But they are not the norm and it is dangerous to tell people they should expect one.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

I wonder whether expectations are part of the issue? I suspect there are very real problems with ALL breeds. My daughter in law's labrador (!) is a young and incorrigible rebel that digs, chews, and chases people. My friend's great dane has genuinely frightening issues with fear aggression and must be muzzled in public. Correcting such behaviors is what one signs up for when one decides to get a puppy of any breed--and especially a working dog like a GSD. If someone expects a little ball of fluff to sit on the shelf and exhibit perfection, that person should get one of those robotic dogs instead of a living creature. 

Athena is not in any way an objectively perfect automation. She is a young, vibrant, living being. She is intelligent, has a mind of her own, and all the instincts of her species. Through her eyes, life is a party, she loves everyone, and everyone loves her. That is what makes her such a delight. Does she misbehave? Absolutely. However, she is not trying to be "bad"--she is just carrying out what seems to her at the time to be a really good and fun idea. It is up to us as dog owners to direct her into appropriate behaviors that are just as much fun. Were we extremely lucky with this puppy? Absolutely. Would we obtain an objectively better result if we hired a trainer? Absolutely. Do we want to hire a pro, get a "perfect" dog, and miss the experience of working with such an intelligent animal? Nope.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Ringhram said:


> I have no idea why we have not had the issues discussed above.
> .........
> We do spend a ton of time exercising, training, socializing, and just being with her.


See, you DO know you might not have had all of the normal issues.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

WNGD said:


> See, you DO know you might not have had all of the normal issues.


 Yep. Thena has been more like Lassie than a landshark (although I am sure the fictitious Lassie did not have Thena's propensity for eating rocks and deer poop). That being said, _it is not us. _We are newbie dog owners and are making plenty of mistakes. It is also not the breed per se. It is the individual dog. 

Before everyone thinks I am a complete Pollyanna, I need to point out a very important fact not mentioned previously. My husband and I have been considering a dog for well over two years. We researched everything from kerry blue terriers to basenjis to good ol' fashioned Heinz 57's, but could not reach a decision based on Google. We planned to visit rescues and shelters, but then found out about my niece's dogs' litter. We immediately asked if a puppy was available _*because of the dispositions of both parents.* _Other "insiders" had much the same idea, and 100% of the puppies were quickly adopted within the family. 

Genes are powerful. To be sure, considering a prospective puppy's parents and pedigree (if such is possible) is by no means dispositive and is no guarantee whatsoever, but I believe it greatly increases the odds of success.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

Ringhram said:


> Genes are powerful. To be sure, considering a prospective puppy's parents and pedigree (if such is possible) is by no means dispositive and is no guarantee whatsoever, but I believe it greatly increases the odds of success.


I agree completely, Ringhram. But I also agree with Wingd...you cannot discount the amount of time and effort you have devoted to your wonderful dog. If you had not, you very well may have had a totally different animal appear. High five to all of you.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

My advice: consider, then reconsider wait a few days and reconsider again. Also, if you have raised a couple of very unruly kids that gave you a run for your money and who grew up to be well adjusted adults, then you have a good chance of doing the same with a GSD. 

sounds funny but not kidding. The few I raised was great practice on how to put my foot down. how to keep calm, how to wait them out and above all how to manipulate their intelligence so that they make the right choices seemingly on their own. One was even a biter so I was able to practice via the human version of land sharking. It wasn’t fun.

so when we got our first GSD, I applied what I had learned just tweaking it a bit to make it GSD appropriate.

all that plus reading the forum like crazy.


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## michaelr (Aug 5, 2010)

Fodder said:


> … but i was committed, the good and the bad.
> 
> i think commitment is just as vital as research.


I have to agree with this whole-heartedly. All the research in the world won't necessarily prepare you for your specific dog's idiosyncrasies, be they in the area of health, personality, behavior, etc. Once you adopt them it's for better AND worse.

We got our first GSD because or next-door neighbor had one and she was an absolutely incredible dog. Our first and current third ones were equally incredible. Our second was **** on paws (the polite term is over protective. he would bite you soon as look at you if he didn't consider you a friend) and our current 4th we call the punk kid for good reason (hyper, acutely anxious, the least biddable GSD I've ever met). He's a PITA, but he's our PITA and we love him. Like all the others, he will live out his hopefully long life with us.


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## finn'smom (Oct 4, 2019)

David Winners said:


> This happens with all breeds. You wouldn't believe how many Cane Corso puppies go to completely unprepared homes. My first question to most people that talk to me about "help with their dog" is always, "why did you get that particular dog? You do know what they were bred for, right?"


I can relate to this.. I met dogs, talked to breeders, researched and researched some more before the Corso came home. I got precisely what I expected and wanted. I also tried very hard to ensure the myriad of people who admired him and wanted their own knew precisely how many hours and how much work went into the dog they were meeting.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Ringhram said:


> I wonder whether expectations are part of the issue? I suspect there are very real problems with ALL breeds. *My daughter in law's labrador (!) is a young and incorrigible rebel that digs, chews, and chases people. My friend's great dane has genuinely frightening issues with fear aggression and must be muzzled in public. *Correcting such behaviors is what one signs up for when one decides to get a puppy of any breed--and especially a working dog like a GSD. If someone expects a little ball of fluff to sit on the shelf and exhibit perfection, that person should get one of those robotic dogs instead of a living creature.
> 
> Athena is not in any way an objectively perfect automation. She is a young, vibrant, living being. She is intelligent, has a mind of her own, and all the instincts of her species. Through her eyes, life is a party, she loves everyone, and everyone loves her. That is what makes her such a delight. Does she misbehave? Absolutely. However, she is not trying to be "bad"--she is just carrying out what seems to her at the time to be a really good and fun idea. It is up to us as dog owners to direct her into appropriate behaviors that are just as much fun. Were we extremely lucky with this puppy? Absolutely. Would we obtain an objectively better result if we hired a trainer? Absolutely. Do we want to hire a pro, get a "perfect" dog, and miss the experience of working with such an intelligent animal? Nope.


Labs are notoriously rough pups. Most dig like gophers as well. But it is their exuberant nature, and in a lot of cases lack of exercise.
Your friends Dane? That is so far off the breed norm it's disgusting, and proves either really poor breeding or really off handling. They are hopefully working with a trainer? 
I expect my GSD to be moderately anti social.
People really need to stop supporting sub par breeding. A pup in a litter being more social then normal is fine. Whole lines of super friendly, laid back is not.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)




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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I have zero trouble telling the wrong people that a GSD is likely not for you. 
It takes a few minutes of asking what their expectations are, experience with large herding breeds, current lifestyle, time/money prepared to be invested, knowledge of training tools/techniques etc. 

You don't have to check all the boxes but you'd better tick a lot of them. If we can save one dog from the constant issues and re-homings, it's worth it.


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## finn'smom (Oct 4, 2019)

Research can be great, it can also be detrimental. The internet has opened up access to so much information - the problem is knowing which information is based in true experience, knowledge and wisdom versus which information is written by someone who shouldn't be giving advice on that subject. My friends and training resources know the true struggles I've had with any dog I've owned - the world wide web does not! I choose to share successes without necessarily all of the steps and failures we had before getting there... which is not to sugar coat anything, if someone approaches me directly I will be honest - I simply tend not to think that everyone in the world needs to know everything about my life.

The best advice I hear given on here or other social media platforms is - GET OFF THE COMPUTER, go meet dogs and owners and trainers... ask those people how they got where they are. Find dogs succeeding in the area you are interested in be it pet, sport or working - hopefully they come with a human that is approachable and willing to lend some time and wisdom to a newcomer and ask your questions - accept when they say that it's hard and a lot of work - be honest with yourself about your lifestyle. Don't expect to change for a puppy, change your lifestyle before and make it habit then find a puppy that fits. The most important bit - for some reason nowadays no one can accept hearing negatives - be prepared to hear that maybe what you think you want isn't necessarily what will work best for you. Be open to exploring the suggestions made to you by the very people you deemed knowledgeable enough to approach in the first place. _*EDIT and ADDON - 2-3yrs down the road when you look at the dog you have spent most of your waking minutes with and think about what you've achieved in sport/work or just in having a great family pet... You won't see their colour first or if they resemble a show bred dog or working bred dog... you'll see their spirit and your connection with them. (that was a lesson learned as a youngster with horses, you can't ride a colour or a pedigree or a head type.. what you can ride is the right horse for you).*_

Looking back, if I had relied solely on internet based information I'd have never owned what I consider to be my heart dog ... the Corso! The internet scared me off of the breed for years and I wish I had started out knocking on doors instead of the opposite. I read enough to convince myself I was never going to be qualified and they were man eating machines. I came upon a lot of "breeders" who just wanted to sell a puppy, and a few who were genuinely open and what I deemed to be sincere about the dogs they had. I had one go so far as to invite me to a training day they were having ... which included dogs he had bred and dogs from other breeders. He didn't sugar coat anything, I met different dogs that day with different structures and personalities. In the end I chose a puppy from his program, the adult dogs I'd met were what I was after... the drive to work, confident, social and succeeding in the show ring, bite sports, dock diving, obedience! He gave me advice I'd have never dug up on the internet that I'm certain was instrumental in how Cato turned out as an adult. I trusted them to choose the correct puppy for me and they did.... in spades! When I lost Cato I was sad to hear he was no longer breeding ... and sat out the thought of a puppy for a long time.

I'd be lost now without Finn, he was the dog I needed when I didn't know I needed him. He forced me out of bed many mornings and reminded me often when I was failing lol. Did I spend countless hours researching and meeting people like with the Corso - NOPE! It was an opportunity presented to me at the right moment and I jumped in. Will I have another GSD after him - who knows! I do love the breed and his zest for all things life. Maybe I'm someone who will never have a lifetime dedication and love for only one breed but I suspect when it's puppy time again my first search will be for a Corso... or a GSD... or Schnauzer... or Frenchie lol my fickle brain sees shiny things and well ... I commit to them though once I make a decision and do my best for them.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Somewhere I have a huge coffee table book of "every breed in the world" although I'm sure it's missing a few obscure ones. When I lost my 3rd GSD bitch, I cracked open that book for days, seeing what the alternatives were. Literally, the only thing I was probably open to was a German Shepherd that shed less 

I narrowed it down to a American Bulldog (couldn't take the Winter hikes I do), a Cane Corso and another Rottie. It was my good friend and vet at the time who straightened me out and said "you know all you need to know about the breed you love and you want to swap that for an unknown that doesn't shed?"

It was kind of ridiculous and here I am 3 more GSD later; they're the only dog for me for life, shedding and all.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

I am not a novice dog owner. I was never fond of GS.. had so many friends when I was a teenager walking my Dane and then a Giant Schnauzer.. literally every other dog in our pack of people walking dogs in the central alley in the city was a GS.. they were annoying, most of them..loud and obnoxious with a few exceptions.
After I’ve lost my last Shar Pei in 2018..had them for about 18 years I was burned because although I did everything possible and impossible the pup that was born in our house died at 12+y.o versus her mom lived till 14+…
I wanted to start fresh and do what’s right… adopt from a shelter.. a mix breed is fine. Who knew it’s so difficult.. older kids, fenced yard, working from home.. who cares.. apparently we are not a good fit.
When that CL ad popped that someone wanted to trade a GS pup for kids toys-I responded. Got lucky. Lexie is more like Lassie!) We love her so much. But if I have to do it all over again-I would want something like Lexie and I realize that she kind of misrepresents the breed, and now that I know what I know after being on this forum for a couple of years I am not sure.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Lexie’s mom said:


> I am not a novice dog owner. I was never fond of GS.. had so many friends when I was a teenager walking my Dane and then a Giant Schnauzer.. literally every other dog in our pack of people walking dogs in the central alley in the city was a GS.. they were annoying, most of them..loud and obnoxious with a few exceptions.
> After I’ve lost my last Shar Pei in 2018..had them for about 18 years I was burned because although I did everything possible and impossible the pup that was born in our house died at 12+y.o versus her mom lived till 14+…
> I wanted to start fresh and do what’s right… adopt from a shelter.. a mix breed is fine. Who knew it’s so difficult.. older kids, fenced yard, working from home.. who cares.. apparently we are not a good fit.
> When that CL ad popped that someone wanted to trade a GS pup for kids toys-I responded. Got lucky. Lexie is more like Lassie!) We love her so much. But if I have to do it all over again-I would want something like Lexie and I realize that she kind of misrepresents the breed, and now that I know what I know after being on this forum for a couple of years I am not sure.


Well my last female GSD was also like a Lassie or a Golden. Sweet and quiet- got along with everyone.
So they are out there. She was a rescue also and I really lucked out- no baggage whatsoever.
There is a wide range of temperaments in gSDs and many of the poor quality ones have temperament problems and health problems.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

Sabis mom said:


> People really need to stop supporting sub par breeding. A pup in a litter being more social then normal is fine. Whole lines of super friendly, laid back is not.


Agreed--Thena's litter is not "typical" for a GSD, as all of the puppies are laid back and friendly. Some of them _might_ be suited for therapy dog work (NB none are therapy dogs and such is not intended), but none of them are suited for show, sport, or any work involving protection or defense. Police work? Forget it. That being said, they are undeniably great companion dogs. We could not ask for a better pet. 

The litter was not planned or intentional. The parents are wonderful pets and produced happy, friendly pups that are quite similar in character. All puppies went to great homes where they are loved and appreciated for what they are. All dogs involved have been or are being spayed or neutered when the appropriate time comes--no "lines" coming from this breeding. While this situation undeniably did not "improve" the breed, I cannot see the harm since the puppies already existed and needed homes. No one profited from the puppies--the small amount that we paid for Thena was used to offset litter and veterinary expenses (which were *not *insignificant) for mom and newborns. 

Good point on the internet research--ours was pointless. We didn't even adopt a breed that we researched. And...having a dog is so much more fun than I ever anticipated from the research! 

Sabis mom, do I ever wish the great dane's owner were on this forum to hear your great suggestions. He will not listen to me when I suggest "trainer." That dog is going to hurt someone someday--has already bitten at least two people. I keep my dog far away from that one. Also, the lab in question just returned from a beneficial "vacation" with a professional trainer. He is doing much better, but is still a bit of a wild thing. 

PS I *still* think Thena is a beautiful, magnificent GSD!


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

I guess one thing I would share with puppy shoppers...

Some people want a friendly family dog who wanders around their picnic saying Hi, and wind up with a dog who growls at strangers and may chase/bite the Amazon delivery guy. Then they are disappointed and feel that they are struggling with "aggression"...

Others live in an iffy neighborhood and want a GSD to help with security, but wind up with a friendly tail-wagger. 
They are disappointed, and wonder if bringing their dog to schutzhund training will help...

So we could get these people to swap dogs!?

But it's probably much easier to just research carefully if you have a certain kind of temperament in mind.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Lexie’s mom said:


> wanted to trade a GS pup for kids toys-


😨😨😨


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I don't know why this came to mind but many years ago, a very knowledgeable breeder told me the best exercise for a GSD is a daily multi-mile trot beside you on a horse. He said "if you don't have a horse....you're the horse!"

What if everyone accepted that if you're not really outdoor-active in your lifestyle already (not just willing to go on long walks), these dogs are not for you?

What if every time these dogs didn't get a minimum of 60 minutes total medium-energy-expended exercise per day, they bit someone? Would this breed be for you?

Yes there are exceptions but I always think "thrive over survive". The best they can be instead of just existing.


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## TayStrike (12 mo ago)

Oh tough one. Mainly because generally when people want something they’ll just go ahead and get it and stuff the consequences 😞
My advice would be to meet as many owners, breeders, trainers and their dogs as possible. Decide WHY you want this breed in particular and WHAT are you going to do with him/her. It needs stressing they need a job, exercise, companionship, firm but fair leadership. Don’t get a GSD if you’re a couch potato, are going to leave him/her for hours on end, don’t like being outdoors in all weathers and aren’t prepared to work hard to train and fully exercise your dog. I say to people my shepherds are a lifestyle, they are a full time occupation. They are challenging. Don’t get a GSD and go meet everyone and their dogs at the beach or the dog park and expect things to run smoothly. GSDs play rough, they bully weaker dogs. They enjoy play time with their own “pack” but are often quick to react negatively to strange dogs. They are highly driven dogs and often need ongoing training to stop them chasing wildlife, livestock etc. They have been selectively bred for generations to guard and protect - and it’s a job many take very seriously (your vehicle, property and person) which may be great if you have an ne’er do well hanging around but not so great if they are loose when the postman, bin men or the little old lady next door walks by. 
A well bred, well trained German shepherd is an absolute joy and the best dog on the planet. A badly bred, untrained German shepherd is a headache and a liability.


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## TayStrike (12 mo ago)

There is a fantastic article written about what your border collie is NOT good at and there really needs to be an equally well written, widely distributed one about GSDs.
Sadly it doesn’t stop people buying farm bred collies time and time again 😥 but if it makes just one person query their breed choice it’s got to be worth it.
I share this all the time when I get asked about border collies as pets.





__





What is Your Border Collie NOT Good At?






www.agilitynet.co.uk


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

One of my friends had an issue with food disappearing from the cabinets and the refrigerator. Of course, he blamed his kids. No amount of groundings or lectures seemed to stop the food thief, so one morning before he left for work, he set up a computer camera in the kitchen to record the culprit. He did indeed identify the guilty party. The video showed his border collie carefully opening the cabinets and nosing boxes and bags open without using her teeth. She then effortlessly opened the refrigerator, opened the door to the meat compartment, and continued to help herself. Mystery solved. 

Bit of a digression, but it illustrates how intelligent these dogs truly are.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

TayStrike said:


> Oh tough one. Mainly because generally when people want something they’ll just go ahead and get it and stuff the consequences 😞
> My advice would be to meet as many owners, breeders, trainers and their dogs as possible. Decide WHY you want this breed in particular and WHAT are you going to do with him/her. It needs stressing they need a job, exercise, companionship, firm but fair leadership. Don’t get a GSD if you’re a couch potato, are going to leave him/her for hours on end, don’t like being outdoors in all weathers and aren’t prepared to work hard to train and fully exercise your dog. I say to people my shepherds are a lifestyle, they are a full time occupation. They are challenging. Don’t get a GSD and go meet everyone and their dogs at the beach or the dog park and expect things to run smoothly. GSDs play rough, they bully weaker dogs. They enjoy play time with their own “pack” but are often quick to react negatively to strange dogs. They are highly driven dogs and often need ongoing training to stop them chasing wildlife, livestock etc. They have been selectively bred for generations to guard and protect - and it’s a job many take very seriously (your vehicle, property and person) which may be great if you have an ne’er do well hanging around but not so great if they are loose when the postman, bin men or the little old lady next door walks by.
> A well bred, well trained German shepherd is an absolute joy and the best dog on the planet. A badly bred, untrained German shepherd is a headache and a liability.


There are not enough likes to give this post. 
Yes there are exceptions but this is majority spot on.


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## TayStrike (12 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> There are not enough likes to give this post.
> Yes there are exceptions but this is majority spot on.


There’s definitely always the exception but that’s just what they are … exceptions to the norm. Here in the UK there are whole lines of “pet bred” GSDs who have had all the drive bred out of them, they are like a Labrador in a big fluffy jacket (most seem to be oversized and longhaired) but to me they are not a true representation of the breed or how it should be. If you want a happy go lucky Lab temperament get a Lab. Simple.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

There are so many excellent statements in this thread, I feel they should be made into one of those "Before You Buy" lists. 
The internet definitely has its pros and cons, but in our case, we did not have the option to go and meet "as many breeders, dogs, owners, trainers" as we could. There simply are not many (worth meeting) in our geographical area. And we couldn't afford to take 3 days off for each foray. So narrowing down our options was assisted by the internet.

In googling GSDs for sale in Montana and nearby states, the options were quickly weeded out by obvious BYBs, or the couch-potato GSDs, looking like what TayStrike described in post 57. We didn't want a lab or a GR, we wanted an active dog that would become our "go anywhere, do anything" with us dog. Not be everyone's best friend, but ours. Would have our backs and be up for whatever we were doing, being it working around the property, hiking in the woods, going fishing, or whatever. We don't take vacations. We are home bodies. But that generally means we are actively doing something around the place. Chores need to be done. We didn't start off looking at working lines but they ended up high on the list as we weeded out what we didn't want. And we didn't just look at GSDs. We looked at a LOT of other breeds. But kept coming back to the GSD. 

My biggest concerns were their health reputation. They appeared to be the most likely dog of any to suffer chronic issues. But, being frank, the more I researched, the more I became convinced that many of those issues are lifestyle/food related. Genetic predisposition does not guarantee expression of that marker. Food and lifestyle can seriously enhance the possibility of its expression. So we resolved to meet that challenge head on. 

We took seriously the warnings of how much and how serious the training needs to be and were fortunate in finding a breeder that has an open door policy when it comes to asking questions and/or signing up for hands on lessons. She is committed to her puppies and is literally there for all her buyers be it by phone, text, email or in person. We take advantage of this valuable resource regularly, checking in with her on an at least weekly basis giving progress reports and asking questions. We were completely frank with our limitations and expectations. Her biggest concern about us was our age, which I also expressed the concern about. 

Does all this, hopefully, prepared research and diligence mean we have a smooth ride ahead of us? Absolutely not. Ilita is wonderful puppy, an affectionate ball of teeth and fur. She has a mind of her own and wants to assert it. We will continue to need professional help as we all develop. Will she be worth the effort we know is ahead of us, indeed, the effort we already are expending? You bet. But this kind of dedication and devotion to making one of these "power" breeds into the dog of your dreams is not for everyone. Are you willing and able to schedule your entire day and life around the needs of your dog? Teach them to tailor their days and thoughts around what needs to be done? Incorporate them into what is going on around them so they understand what is routine and what is not? If not, then I would say "Think seriously before getting one of these".


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Would you get a Border Collie? No
Would you get a Pit? No
Doberman, Mastiff, Rottweiller? No

German Shephard? 
Ooooooooo I've always wanted one ....


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

We are apparently a very lucky minority--we happened upon a GSD, we had no idea what we were doing, and Thena turned into the best dog anyone could ever want. I am not sure how to describe her. She is definitely not a labrador in GSD clothing, nor is she aloof and antisocial. She is sociable without being obnoxious. She is obedient and loyal. She is calmly protective without being aggressive or attacking. She is so in tune with us that sometimes I think she understands human language at least on the level of a young child. As I have stated before, the best description I can think of is, well, Lassie. 

We do spend hours with her every day by choice (this is why we wanted a dog). Yes, the day is arranged around her. We train her, we play with her, we exercise her. She is almost never alone. When I work, she sleeps at my feet. Yet we are not skilled or knowledgeable, and we pretty much did with her exactly what we would have done with any other dog. 

Thena likely isn't typical, but IMHO, a better dog has never walked the surface of the earth. That being said, I have no idea what would have happened if she had been in a home where she was untrained, unexercised, and left alone. Three of the six puppies in her litter have developed serious behavioral issues--would she have been a fourth? 

I am going to get off this computer and go play with my dog!


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

Addendum: 


Ringhram said:


> Three of the six puppies in her litter have developed serious behavioral issues


The owners of the three puppies that developed issues are experienced GSD owners and experienced dog owners in general. They did everything right. The puppies are half Czech working line, and I think it likely that latent ancestral temperament has surfaced.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Ringhram said:


> Addendum:
> 
> 
> The owners of the three puppies that developed issues are experienced GSD owners and experienced dog owners in general. They did everything right. The puppies are half Czech working line, and I think it likely that latent ancestral temperament has surfaced.


 You made it sound like the Czech blood is the source of the issues. I suspect the opposite, the weakness of the nerves of the pet half is responsible for the behaviour issues. Working line drives are not “issues” but if they are combined with pet nerves, well, I can see things may go wrong.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

GSD07 said:


> You made it sound like the Czech blood is the source of the issues. I suspect the opposite


Your point makes a lot of sense, and I agree with it. Someone said that to me when i first joined the forum. 

I don't think any "blood" is really to blame. People are making a great point when they say "consider the purpose for which the dogs are bred." 

I am pretty much hooked on this breed. If I am still young enough to get another puppy when Thena passes, it will be GSD, from a reputable breeder, with temperament as the main criteria. And I could very well end up have any of the problems mentioned in this thread. If so, I will work with my dog. To me, it is worth the time and effort.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Ringhram said:


> Addendum:
> 
> 
> The owners of the three puppies that developed issues are experienced GSD owners and experienced dog owners in general. They did everything right. The puppies are half Czech working line, and I think it likely that latent ancestral temperament has surfaced.


I agree with @GSD07. While the problems could have come from either side, it’s probably from the non working line side not bringing the stability and nerve strength to handle the suspicion and aggression from the working line side.


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> it’s probably from the non working line side not bringing the stability and nerve strength to handle the suspicion and aggression from the working line side.


You hit the nail on the head. That pretty much describes the issues the puppies are having.


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