# I REALLY Need Help with My Puppy's Diet



## Lorrie (Jun 13, 2016)

Hello,
I did a search, but, couldn't come up with what I needed, so, here goes...

My GSD puppy, Cairo, came to me at 8 weeks from the breeder on 4Health Grain-free dry food, which I continued to feed him. At 9 weeks he developed severe diarrhea and vomiting, took to vet, vet gave antiemetic shot and prescribed 5 days of Flagyl. Vomiting stopped immediately. 

No food for 24 hours, then boiled chicken and rice. Some improvement. Added pumpkin. Much improved. Finished Flagyl. 

Fast forward... weaned him from 4Health to Fromm Grain-free large breed puppy food.

Advised by my dog trainer to mix Evanger's canned food (beef) with the Fromm kibble. 

His stool is formed, but, still quite soft. 
Vet says that is normal for puppies. 

Have I screwed around with his diet too much, too quickly? He is now 12 weeks old.

What would you experts recommend? He is my 3rd GSD, but, I want him on better quality food than I had my others on.

Sorry, this is so long. I am trying to anticipate questions that you might have.

Thank you.

Lorraine and Cairo


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Mine was on Fromm LBPF and his stool was never 100% firm. Then someone here said that it could be from feeding too much. By then he was 9 months and not growing as fast. I had switched him to adult Fromm at 7 months, and then I cut back 1/2 C. His stool firmed up most of the time. I think I was over feeding him just a little bit. It sounds like your puppy had a parasite or Giardia. That could disrupt his stool for a while. Did you use probiotic? I've had two dogs with Giardia and Fortiflora helped.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Why did you switch off the 4health? It's an excellent food and your pup did great on it.


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## Lorrie (Jun 13, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> Mine was on Fromm LBPF and his stool was never 100% firm. Then someone here said that it could be from feeding too much. By then he was 9 months and not growing as fast. I had switched him to adult Fromm at 7 months, and then I cut back 1/2 C. His stool firmed up most of the time. I think I was over feeding him just a little bit. It sounds like your puppy had a parasite or Giardia. That could disrupt his stool for a while. Did you use probiotic? I've had two dogs with Giardia and Fortiflora helped.


I have not tried a probiotic, but, that is not out of the question.


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## Lorrie (Jun 13, 2016)

gsdsar said:


> Why did you switch off the 4health? It's an excellent food and your pup did great on it.


That is an excellent question, which made me really rethink the order of things. I realize now that his diarrhea became much worse after my dog trainer was here and fed him Stewart Chicken Liver treats. Maybe they were just too rich for him. That is more likely what caused the severe diarrhea, but, I didn't think that through at the time and she had suggested the switch to fromm and evangers so I made the switch.

At this point, what would you suggest I do?

Gradually switch back to the 4Health?

Do you like the idea of mixing with the Evangers?

I really appreciate the advice.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

It could be the liver treats or to many or possible it may be the grainfree food. We had Max on Fromm large breed puppy- gold it ( blue bag in photo)was not grain free and his stools were always normal. We switched Max to Fromm grainfree over at 14 months of age.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Fromm's is high quality and is highly regarded on this site. It is family owned *AND* manufactured in their own plant. 90% of kibble is not.

Since you've already done a switch, I'd be hesitant to switch the food AGAIN since he is doing ok on the Fromm's. That's a lot for a new pup.


Just a thought, but if you are going to add additional toppings to the kibble, you may want to consider using fresh ground meat, (either raw or *slightly* cooked) instead of the canned/cooked Evanger's. This would give higher quality nutrients. You can use ground turkey, ground beef (lean), and ground chicken. To do this, put some warm/hot tap water into his bowl, add about 1/8th to 1/4th cup of raw meat and stir to make a "soup". Then mix in kibble, let it set for a few minutes before serving, and mix again.

Watch what treats you are feeding also. Try and get something like BRAVO treats. Most of their products are only ONE ingredient.....meat.

Moms


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## Lorrie (Jun 13, 2016)

Thank you for your suggestions, Moms. The only reason I'd even consider changing back to 4Health at this point would be to save a little money, but, that is certainly not my priority. I don't want to cause any more tummy upset to my precious little boy and I want him on the best diet I can afford.

I really like your idea about the slightly raw ground beef, chicken, or turkey. Never heard of that method of preparation, I had always thought that my choices were either to go all out raw or canned.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Lorrie said:


> Thank you for your suggestions, Moms. The only reason I'd even consider changing back to 4Health at this point would be to save a little money, but, that is certainly not my priority. I don't want to cause any more tummy upset to my precious little boy and I want him on the best diet I can afford.
> 
> I really like your idea about the slightly raw ground beef, chicken, or turkey. Never heard of that method of preparation, I had always thought that my choices were either to go all out raw or canned.



If you do try the fresh meat (always use LEAN meats), give a smaller portion in one meal of the day for a few days to see how he does. Then increase to two meals. If he gets loose stool, back off to the previous amount fed when stools were regular and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut adjusts, then try to increase again. This is called "Bowel Tolerance".

The following are Human ingredient products, that myself and others have used with great success. Since about 70% of the immune system lies in the gut, it is very important to keep it healthy.
*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): Sunday-Sundae-12oz
*Digest All Plus:* (Digestive Enzyme/ProBiotic combo) Wholistic Digest All Plus? - Digestive Support - Canine
*Gut Sense: *(Pro-Biotic & Pre Biotic): http://dr-dobias-natural-healing-usa.myshopify.com/collections/adult-dog-essentials/products/gutsense# 


BTW.....we need pictures!!!:wink2:

Good luck and keep us posted!
Moms


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## Lorrie (Jun 13, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> If you do try the fresh meat (always use LEAN meats), give a smaller portion in one meal of the day for a few days to see how he does. Then increase to two meals. If he gets loose stool, back off to the previous amount fed when stools were regular and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut adjusts, then try to increase again. This is called "Bowel Tolerance".
> 
> The following are Human ingredient products, that myself and others have used with great success. Since about 70% of the immune system lies in the gut, it is very important to keep it healthy.
> *Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): Sunday-Sundae-12oz
> ...


Thank you so much! I feel so much better about the direction I'm going now. I'll definitely keep you posted. Here's my little guy, Cairo.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Maybe I live in a different world. But the puppy was on a high quality good, and doing well. 

We have switched the food now, granted to another high quality food, but now we have to add in expensive supplements to get the same poop we got on the lower priced high quality food. 

I don't get it. Sorry. If a dog is doing awesome on a good food , normal not excessive stool, shiny coat, good energy and attitude, growing normal, why switch? If it ain't broke don't fix it. 

Yes there are stories about dogs whose skin allergies clear up, GI issues get better yadda yadda, but we just don't hear about the millions of normal dogs who do great on decent food and live normal long healthy lives. Like my dogs. 

Sorry OP. Sorry to hijack your thread. I would give the Fromm a chance. It's been lots of changes on you baby pretty quickly, stick with one thing for now. Yes feeding too much will give a dog loose stool, in this case a good probiotic will help as well. To rebalance everything.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

I also use Fromm, sometimes I mix in some goat yogurt or goat milk. The vet said if I'm going to give yogurt then goats is the best to use.


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## karladupler (Mar 22, 2016)

Sorry if this question is out of context....but is raw diet expensive? The more I do research the more i want to change my dog's food but not sure if i would be able to switch him to raw diet plus i have seen people gives their dogs birds/bunny legs etc where they get that stuff? Do you feed your dog with that kind of food? How much do you spend on a raw diet monthly? And i have seen that even petco sells frozen food which is pretty much raw diet but you guys went to the vet first and ask about it or how you did it?


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## Lorrie (Jun 13, 2016)

gsdsar said:


> Maybe I live in a different world. But the puppy was on a high quality good, and doing well.
> 
> We have switched the food now, granted to another high quality food, but now we have to add in expensive supplements to get the same poop we got on the lower priced high quality food.
> 
> ...


gsdsar, I don't think you live in a different world at all and I completely agree with your recommendation and very much appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post!

I never should have switched Cairo from the 4Health in the first place. I totally freaked out with the severe diarrhea that he had and jumped the gun to make the switch. That being said, he's on the Fromm now and I'll continue it to give his poor belly a break, as both you and Momto2GSDs recommended. I have another dog, 6 year old goldendoodle on 4Health, though, and would love to have them both on it as adults some day, if that is possible.

I've also ordered the probiotic, so, hopefully, Cairo will be in good shape soon. 

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

Lorraine


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## Glaicer (Aug 6, 2016)

Pups are so sensitive sometimes it's best to stick with what works until they show you they can handle more of a variety.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

karladupler said:


> Sorry if this question is out of context....but is raw diet expensive? The more I do research the more i want to change my dog's food but not sure if i would be able to switch him to raw diet plus i have seen people gives their dogs birds/bunny legs etc where they get that stuff? Do you feed your dog with that kind of food? How much do you spend on a raw diet monthly? And i have seen that even petco sells frozen food which is pretty much raw diet but you guys went to the vet first and ask about it or how you did it?


Raw can be expensive. It can also be dirt cheap. Depends on your sources and what "style" of raw you feed. 

I'm currently spending around $250 - $300 a month for my raw fed dog. However he is eating all grass fed red meat and organic veggies and I am in a major metropolitan - so not so many hunters or neighbors processing their own meat.

If I needed to cut my dog food budget, I could get a vitamin and mineral premix and switch to cheap cuts of poultry (like chicken quarters) and pay around $50 - $75 a month just shopping at wally world and online.


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