# German Shepherds and being out in a cold vehicle.



## shepk9 (Feb 15, 2015)

http://i.imgur.com/hug0gVh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7l04YzG.jpg

That's my boy. He'd sleep out in the snow all day and night if I'd let him. Only thing that bothers him is if I let his hair on his feet get to long and he gets snowballs between the toes. 

He's 7 years old now, I've taken him everywhere with me with my work. He waits patiently in the car for me until I return. I don't take him in the summer as its too hot. However in the winter, I've never hesitated no matter how cold. No different that him playing in the back yard for 1-2 hours, except its sheltered from the wind in the car. 

Local media has started a campaign telling everyone that spots an animal in a vehicle during freezing temperatures, to call 911. I came across one of these fanatics today during our outing, telling me how cruel I am, and that I'm lucky he's not calling the police. It was -15c out. 

I opened up the hatch to the car, 'Shep' looks up at us. He's been in the car for 2 hours, he starts to pant from excitement cause I'm back, can't even see his breath. Where as the two of us outside the car our breath was definitely visable. Touch his body, its warm to touch. Windows steamed up. 

She still was freaking out about it, wrote my license plate down and said if she sees me again with him in the car, she's calling 911.

Am I wrong, should I be leaving him at home? I mean if it wasn't for the fact I've seen him sound asleep in a snowbank, face covered in snow (and not coming in when I open the door calling him) I might think its too cold for him, but sitting in a somewhat cozy car for a couple hours I really don't see affecting him. 

I think the biggest thing is windchill, people see -40c windchill and thing omg its -40c out. whereas inside a car (or anything sheltered like a shed or barn), its still only -15c. (ie need exposure to the wnid for windchill lol)

I printed off a news article from the spca talking about german shepherds and huskies and their ability to handle cold weather, keeping that in the car now. 

I feel more guilty leaving him at home, during the summer he sulks in the bedroom when I leave him behind, won't even come out when I come home. Like he doesn't understand why the pack is leaving without him. 

I don't know, just want to make sure I'm not making some mistake, and it is dangerous for him.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

We train and dogs are in vehicles for the whole day. No wind to chill them and the body heat keeps the warmth in. BUT we cancelled training today with the wind chills far below zero and not good for training outside. 
In Summer, same thing, crate fan, water bucket and we keep an eye on the vehicle temp. I don't go to parking lots ever with my dog inside because I can't keep the doors/windows open. Common sense, if AR's are seeking out 'saving' the world, then I'd not be in the place that they are looking. I keep my dog crated and he isn't barking to draw attention.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

For those of us who only do F, -15C = 5 degrees F. We are at 3 degrees F, right now. But our wind chills never go down to -40, same in both scales. Maybe -20. But whatever. 

A dog that lives in the house (ambient temperature 65-72 degrees F) and then is put in a car that is 5 degrees, where he has limited movement, can get mighty cold at 5 degrees. Sorry. If the dog lives outside, but has a house with straw in it and can move freely about -- the car is still too cold at 5 degrees for extended periods. And I think 2 hours is an extended period. Outside dogs do grow more coat, and may develop a layer of fat that insulates that an indoor dog might not have. 

But if the weather is bitter, I don't know if I fault the lady for being concerned and warning you that she will call the authorities. 

Now the Cleveland cops that thought 50 degrees F was too cold for my dog to be in my car with the back up and the windows partially down (so it wouldn't get too hot in there), yeah, they were crazy. 

If the dog is in a crate, in the car, it is probably containing its own body heat and probably better off than loose in the car, but 5 degrees is pretty cold to be left in a car, and even worse if the dog spends most of its time in 70 degree temperatures.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I ran into a crazy lady in a park parking lot who thought my dogs were going to die because I had the windows up... I was in the car with them. It was early in the morning and I'd gotten cold and was warming up inside. And she was screaming at me through the window that my dogs were going to suffocate. I cracked the windows hoping she would go away, and she actually gets out her phone and claims she's calling the police. Oh how I wished I could have listened in to that conversation... 

"she's killing her dogs! She's suffocating them in the car!"
"ok m'am, you say the dogs are in the car and the windows are up? Where is she?" 
"she's inside the car with them. The dogs are going to suffocate and die!"


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

In some states, it's illegal to leave your dog in the car. I take my boy to work with me if the temps are above 30. I've seen him shivering in 10 deg during training and he was left in the car.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I do as you do - bring my dogs to work and they stay out in the car. I'm now leaving my old girl home because she isn't well, but Gryffon is six and I've never seen him show signs of being cold from being in the car. -15c is about as cold as I'm comfortable having him in the car all day. If the high for the day is like -20c, I don't bring him, I leave him at home.

Police dogs on duty spend their day in their vehicle in all weather. I an see people being concerned with short-coated breeds being left out in the cold, but a GSD is quite suited to it.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I have never hesitated to take Newlie with me on errands during the winter but our winters are pretty mild here, it's our summers that are brutal. With his big, thick coat, I often let him out in the yard and see him out there lying on his belly in the snow. I think the longest I have ever left him the car though, though, was maybe 30-40 minutes and our average temperature during the winter is around 35 degrees or so. He loves to ride in the car, no matter where we go, and just people-watches while I am gone.


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## gsdheeler (Apr 12, 2010)

I usually bring my dogs to work w/ me. Usually about 4 hours, if it's really nasty outside I can bring them in. I groom at a boarding kennel. I prefer to keep them in the van, I have a 8 month old who I do worry about in the - temps, he doesn't have the body fat or coat as my adult dog.


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## shepk9 (Feb 15, 2015)

Castlemaid said:


> I do as you do - bring my dogs to work and they stay out in the car. I'm now leaving my old girl home because she isn't well, but Gryffon is six and I've never seen him show signs of being cold from being in the car. -15c is about as cold as I'm comfortable having him in the car all day. If the high for the day is like -20c, I don't bring him, I leave him at home.
> 
> Police dogs on duty spend their day in their vehicle in all weather. I an see people being concerned with short-coated breeds being left out in the cold, but a GSD is quite suited to it.


His/our trainer gave us a guideline, put ourselves in his paws. To hot for a walk, put your hands on the cement/pavement for 1-2 minutes. To hot for car rides, sit in the car for 5-10 minutes windows opened to what you'd leave them at. To cold for car rides, sit in the car for 5-10 minutes. 

I don't do anything with him that i wouldn't do myself. 

As I'm typing this. He asked to go out to do his business. He's still out there, lying in the snow sniffing the air. I tap on the window, he just looks at me and constinues sniffing. It's -20c, windchill supposed to be -32.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

not that your post is about this, but thought I'd add it for whoever may be reading. 

When dogs are crated or still for a period of time in cold temps, they naturally stiffen up. It is important to do some warm ups/stretch or massage before working them in colder weather. I never get my dog out and expect work, and I'm sure LEO K9's are kept in ambient temps to keep them from cramping or stiffening up when they are needed in the moment of a click of the remote. 
And water is necessary regardless of temps...so hydrating is a given.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

I think each dog is different. Some dogs may be more susceptible to cold then others; heat is different as dogs can't regulate their body temps cooling down well at all. But cold weather? All mine have loved it! House dogs or otherwise, if they have adequate body weight, they seem to thrive in the cooler temps. I sleep with my window open and the fan on all winter (except I'd in negative digits, then no fan) and they love it. If the dog is seen shivering, lethargic, etc then I would certainly reconsider ever leaving them below freezing, but again, I've never experienced that... Some people have a genuine concern for the animals, but they assume their opinion is the only one of worth and cause trouble... Unfortunate the lady couldn't see that your dog was OK and that this was not a problem...


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

You know those pictures circulating on facebook showing the dog covered in snow at the window or door saying "please bring me in when it's cold"? Well, if I had the ability, I would have created a picture showing a German Shepherd with a ball in his mouth, covered in snow in the yard in ready pose with a cold human looking in the window saying "please can I go back in yet?"


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Suka said:


> You know those pictures circulating on facebook showing the dog covered in snow at the window or door saying "please bring me in when it's cold"? Well, if I had the ability, I would have created a picture showing a German Shepherd with a ball in his mouth, covered in snow in the yard in ready pose with a cold human looking in the window saying "please can I go back in yet?"











Or, Please let me BACK OUT!


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

onyx'girl said:


> Or, Please let me BACK OUT!


Hahahah :wild:


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## shepk9 (Feb 15, 2015)

Suka said:


> You know those pictures circulating on facebook showing the dog covered in snow at the window or door saying "please bring me in when it's cold"? Well, if I had the ability, I would have created a picture showing a German Shepherd with a ball in his mouth, covered in snow in the yard in ready pose with a cold human looking in the window saying "please can I go back in yet?"


That second photo I posted, was snowing like a sob. Notice he wasn't looking at the camera. He was focused on the frozen tennis ball I'd confiscated for the photo lol.


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

shepk9 said:


> That second photo I posted, was snowing like a sob. Notice he wasn't looking at the camera. He was focused on the frozen tennis ball I'd confiscated for the photo lol.


LOL yeah I think whomever makes and circulates those photos must not have had German Shepherds because there are times when I'm like, pleeeease hurry and get tired out so I can go inside. :help:


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Temperatures are falling well below normal right now and even though your dog may be fine, I would not chance someone calling the cops. 

Honestly, I think the sub zero temps are hard on all animals, even those accustomed to living outside. It takes a lot more energy to stay warm. Regardless, you don't want to risk the cops taking your dog!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

BowWowMeow said:


> Temperatures are falling well below normal right now and even though your dog may be fine, I would not chance someone calling the cops.
> 
> Honestly, I think the sub zero temps are hard on all animals, even those accustomed to living outside. It takes a lot more energy to stay warm. Regardless, you don't want to risk the cops taking your dog!


No, you don't. And so, I stopped taking my girl to work with me, after taking the crates out of the back so she would have more room and then wrecking my car with her loose back there because the cops thought 50 degrees was too cold for a dog to be in the car for 2-3 hours. When they threaten to arrest you for something like that, 50 degrees, it doesn't matter if they are totally flipping bats, you don't want to take any chances. You don't want your dog dragged off to the pound. Dogs have died in there on _accident. _ Since then, I put the crates back in the car, because that is the safe way to transport dogs, but I've only brought a dog to work with me one time, and then I just let her come inside with me the whole time, since it was a Saturday, and not many people were there.


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## misterW (Jan 25, 2011)

I take my girl with me when I teach class in the evening for a few hours. I tend not to take her when it gets much below 10F, but the truth of the matter is I have never seen her cold. I have never seen her shiver. She won't hesitate to splash through an icy river in sub zero temperatures if she sees something she wants to chase on the other side. Usually after a walk, she'll just lie around in the snow for a bit. I'm sure I could go lower than the 10F and she'd be fine. In terms of safety, I am much more concerned with heat than cold.


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## misterW (Jan 25, 2011)

selzer said:


> No, you don't. And so, I stopped taking my girl to work with me, after taking the crates out of the back so she would have more room and then wrecking my car with her loose back there because the cops thought 50 degrees was too cold for a dog to be in the car for 2-3 hours. When they threaten to arrest you for something like that, 50 degrees, it doesn't matter if they are totally flipping bats, you don't want to take any chances. You don't want your dog dragged off to the pound. Dogs have died in there on _accident. _ Since then, I put the crates back in the car, because that is the safe way to transport dogs, but I've only brought a dog to work with me one time, and then I just let her come inside with me the whole time, since it was a Saturday, and not many people were there.


They actually threatened to arrest you? Or this is something you heard about?


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

I go to the dog park even in the negative windchill days. Grant it I am not today, but that is just because I want a day to stay home and be lazy for a change. Yesterday we were at the park it was about 9 to 12 degrees outside. I cannot find anything to remind me what the windchill was >.< We played outside for about an hour and he was completely fine & would of probably stayed longer. I then went grocery shopping afterwards for about another hour. I left him in the car/backseat. When I got back the car was still completely warm & he was sound asleep. Luckily the back windows are tinted and with him laying down no one will notice him. He's perfectly fine. I sometimes worry too that people are going to see him and freak when really the car actually stays really warm with him in it. He's usually never in the car longer than that in the winter time though,


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

When we lived in Toronto, one bitterly cold night we ran out of milk, it was dark, I put Lady in the car, off we went. Maybe 1/2 hour in Walmart, came back to the car, toasty warm! However, it bothered me so I never did it again.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I take one of my dogs to work often if it is above 20*. Below 20* and it depends. If it's a sunny day the car stays warm (and I always have a window cracked, no matter how cold). If it's a snowy or wet day, then no because I don't want him to get damp while out to potty and then sit in a cold vehicle. If it's bitter cold, then no because his breath freezes on the inside of the windows and takes forever to defrost before I can drive home. He's got several towels, blankets, and dog bed in his crate. I let him out twice a day for potty and a short walk on my breaks so I can gauge whether he's comfortable. If he were shaking, I'd take him home. At home he loves to be outside no matter the weather or temps.

Taking dogs everywhere when it's cold...I don't see a problem with it but I don't need trouble from extreme AR people so I usually don't. At work it's not a problem because I park in a small, special lot that is patrolled by security and they know my dogs and my vehicle (and I'm not the only one that brings a dog). Going to the pet store is fine, but I don't usually take dogs grocery shopping or to the mall just because.


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

Hrm I was kind of off topic when I replied. Whoops. Anyway, I feel that in a closed car, they will be breathing without ventilation and that moisture will condense and the car will be very cold.. too cold, so it's nothing I would want to do for very long.


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

Liesje said:


> I take one of my dogs to work often if it is above 20*. Below 20* and it depends. If it's a sunny day the car stays warm (and I always have a window cracked, no matter how cold). If it's a snowy or wet day, then no because I don't want him to get damp while out to potty and then sit in a cold vehicle. If it's bitter cold, then no because his breath freezes on the inside of the windows and takes forever to defrost before I can drive home. He's got several towels, blankets, and dog bed in his crate. I let him out twice a day for potty and a short walk on my breaks so I can gauge whether he's comfortable. If he were shaking, I'd take him home. At home he loves to be outside no matter the weather or temps.
> 
> Taking dogs everywhere when it's cold...I don't see a problem with it but I don't need trouble from extreme AR people so I usually don't. At work it's not a problem because I park in a small, special lot that is patrolled by security and they know my dogs and my vehicle (and I'm not the only one that brings a dog). Going to the pet store is fine, but I don't usually take dogs grocery shopping or to the mall just because.


Yes, I like that you know to keep your window cracked. What you do makes sense to me.


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## misterW (Jan 25, 2011)

Suka said:


> Hrm I was kind of off topic when I replied. Whoops. Anyway, I feel that in a closed car, they will be breathing without ventilation and that moisture will condense and the car will be very cold.. too cold, so it's nothing I would want to do for very long.


Stick a thermometer inside, then you'll know for sure. I put one in when it was about 10F outside and 2.5 hours later it was still around 35F inside. I don't think 35 F is anything close to terribly unpleasant for my dog, considering how oblivious she seems to temperatures far, far colder. I'm sure this varies by vehicle.


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

misterW said:


> Stick a thermometer inside, then you'll know for sure. I put one in when it was about 10F outside and 2.5 hours later it was still around 35F inside. I don't think 35 F is anything close to terribly unpleasant for my dog, considering how oblivious she seems to temperatures far, far colder. I'm sure this varies by vehicle.


Yeah, I'm never done that. GG Yeah that's not bad.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I am always wondering about how cold is too cold too. Both of my dogs, a GSD and Newfie mix, don't ever seem to mind the cold. I am the one that usually wants to go back inside!!!! I used to take them on errands all the time but lately I worry about people who seem to think it is cruel or inhumane. I don't want to deal with that! I like the idea of a thermometer in the car. It certainly would set my mind at ease. 
Today I set out to go to the store for a few things with the dogs in the car. It was cold and very windy, so I turned around and went back home. They probably would have been fine....considering that the windows were open while I was driving, with the heat on full blast...lol. I got quite a few interesting stares....who drives in 5 degree temps with their windows down?????!!!!!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

katdog5911 said:


> . I got quite a few interesting stares....who drives in 5 degree temps with their windows down?????!!!!!


I do, even when I don't have dogs with me. I can't stand the heat from the vets so I crack the windows lol


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I've walked dogs when it was 20 F below. And colder. I've had to run the AC in winter in WYoming because I had dogs in the truck with me. 

Dogs in cars in winter - for my crew the problem is that they fog up the windows. Big time.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

When they start lifting a paw off the surface they are on and standing on 3 legs....then it's too cold....even then, if they choose to lay down with no need to walk anywhere, they will still do okay. 

Inside a car or truck too cold ??? Never gave it a second thought...and it gets cold up here in the Great White North. I also lower a window when it might be 0 degrees F or lower....dog still puts her face out for a short bit to check out the potpourri of smells.

I'm curious....has anyone ever seen their shepherd shivering from the cold? I never have. I'm much more concerned about heat exhaustion/stroke/dehydration in the summer versus frigid wintery weather.


SuperG


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm never worried about leaving Kyleigh in the car in the winter time. Summer ... absolutely. And when I do, I leave the car running with the a/c on, and pop into the store and right back out (I'm talking convenience store or going in to pay for gas stops - that's it).

Yesterday it was -37 with the windchill and we were out for over 2 hours. We humans were ok (we're dressed for it LOL), and the dogs were perfectly fine. We checked their ears / paws, etc. and I'm sure they thought we were nuts. 

When we were done, I stopped at Chapters to buy some books. Usually I bring Kyleigh in with me, but yesterday she was covered in frozen drool, so I left her in the car to thaw out (didn't think Chapters would appreciate her dripping all over the place LOL).

I was gone about 30 minutes. I had left the window open in the back about an inch. I have a hatchback, the back seats are down, and there are LOADS of blankets in the back (mainly to catch her fur LOL, but also so the melting snow has somewhere to go). 

I got back to the car and a woman was standing beside my car. I approach my car:

Me - can I help you?
Her - is this your car? and your dog?
Me - yes
Her - I've been here for at least 10 minutes and that poor dog has been left here in the cold
Me - Well, I've been gone for at least 30 minutes, and that "poor" dog just spent the last 2.5 hours running outside in this weater. I'm pretty sure the car is warmer than it is outside. 
Her - you had your dog outside for 2.5 hours? Are you crazy?
Me - no, I'm not crazy! I own a dog that is built for this weather. 

I move past her, open the back door, and call Kyleigh out of the car. 

Me - here, feel her ears - are they cold? look at her? does she look like she's suffering? is she shivering?

Her - She's soaking wet 

Me - of course she is, she's been playing in the snow ... and if it was that cold in my car, the snow wouldn't have melted ...

Her - You shouldn't leave your dog alone in the car, it's too cold

Me - rolling my eyes - and you should mind your own business. If I had a boxer or a chihuahua, I would agree with you completely .. I own a dog that loves and thrives in this weather, so please get out of my way so I can get home. 

Put Ky back in the car, and I get in the car. 

She won't move away from the back of my car - and I can't go forward because there's a car parked in front of me. 

So I sit in my car and wait for her to move (window is rolled down so I can hear what she's saying) ... meanwhile she's becoming a bit nuts ... she's yelling at people as they are walking by about how cruel I am to be leaving my dog in the car. She's stopping people, but no one is listening (it's too cold outside LOL)

So I got lucky ... a guy walks up to her and asks her what's going on ... 

She starts telling him how horrible I am, leaving my dog in the car, etc. 

Turns out he's a cop LOL ...

He comes up to the car, asks me a couple of questions ... I offered to take Ky out of the car to show him that's she's fine ... he's looking at her and just chuckles and shakes his head ... she looks warmer that I am!!!!

He moved the woman out of the way, and I got to leave ... no idea what happened to her, but I was happy to get home!


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

katdog5911 said:


> ...considering that the windows were open while I was driving, with the heat on full blast...lol. I got quite a few interesting stares....who drives in 5 degree temps with their windows down?????!!!!!


Leo loves the windows down, 5F or 6F and cruising.....he closes his eyes and just loves it!!! I don't leave him alone because I need the steering wheel and he can be a little destructive


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

SuperG said:


> I'm curious....has anyone ever seen their shepherd shivering from the cold? I never have. I'm much more concerned about heat exhaustion/stroke/dehydration in the summer versus frigid wintery weather.


I've seen Legend shiver last summer in the UP after doing a lot of swimming. The water was warm (probably 75* maybe a few degrees warmer) but the air more like 65-70 and very windy where we were. The dogs were swimming and swimming...then I noticed Legend was slowing down and shaking. It was kind of weird, but probably a combo of being wet, very windy, and starting to get exhausted.

I've never seen my GSDs shiver in the winter from cold as long as they were dry.

The only reasons I leave them home some bitter cold days are because of others' perception. I'd rather not have to drive home during the day, but I can if it means people aren't getting the wrong impression. That, or I don't like when their breath fogs and freezes the inside of the windows. The dogs themselves don't get cold as long as they aren't getting wet and are out of the wind.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

It depends on the dog but since we are gsd owners, let's talk about gsd's. Sailor was never left in the car when it was hot. By hot I mean, anything about... Maybe 50 d egrees F Or more for HIM. If it was day time and during the winter, I would leave him in the car sometimes. This was so I could go grocery shopping, and was gone maybe 30-45 minutes. Again, it's winter in Colorado, so not hot out. I would also take sailor with me at night in the fall/winter and leave him in the car when I would go grocery shopping. Same amount of time. The reason I would do this as a single woman walking into a dark parking lot, is because I knew if I saw his two ears sticking out through the window, I knew my car was safe to get into. Sailor would never let anyone get in my car other thN me. He was extremely protective. In the summer time there were times I left sailor in the car with the car on and the ac running. The times I did this was to go to mcdonalds to rent a redbox movie or to return a redbox movie. So maybe he was in the car up to 1-2 minutes. This is MY experience, and the things I have done. Sailor had a thick undercoat and could handle winter weather with no problem. He loved being in the car too. It gave him a "job" to do. 

I do think it is wrong to leave a dog, any dog, in a car when it is hot out, with the windows closed, or opened a crack, and the ac in the car is NOT on. If it is for 1 minute... Not so bad. Most people though don't leave their dogs for one minute. Therefore I think it is wrong. In a situation like this, I would say something to the owner. People think, oh it's only 70 degrees outside, it's cool, I can leave fido in the car. But they don't realize the car can get up to 20 degrees more than it is outside, the car acts like an oven. the best thing to do is to leave the AC on for your dog, or, don't bring the dog at All.

Winter time... Different story if you have a dog built to handle the cold like we do.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Yes we leave our dogs in the box of our truck in the winter, it's got a cap, and we put carpet back there. We bring our dogs for a run then go about doing our thing. They are protected by harsh winds, plus they are built to handle cold weather they spend hours outside playing and I've never seen any sort of issues with them. Another thing is their are 3 of them and they keep things warm


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I choose not to leave the dog in the car in the summer with the ac on....you are betting your dog's life that the car keeps running properly...


SuperG


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Dogs often die in cars... FACT...
Interested bystanders may save a life... FACT
Its not for them to decide when a dog is dying and when a dog is ok.... 
So they report what they see...

You guys may be responsible.. Other people are not..

I cant find unnegotiable reasons to repeatedly keep dogs in vehicles for long time periods unattended. Other solutions can be made.

This may be a case of some people ruining it for others.. 
But the same can be said for mind-altering drugs.
(*Something something* - I would rather not bring up again in this instance- I think most of you can fill in the blank.)
Or high speed driving... Im sure Michael Shumacher may be able to drive at higher speeds than most and not get into a car accident... But he just is not allowed to...
Drinking and driving - Some people make great over the limit drivers... Others... Not so much... (again I would trust Shumacher more than most behind the wheel even if he had a few too many... than a completely sober driving clutz.)

Leaving dogs in cars for long periods unattended is just something society does not need as a headache... A conscienscous person.. Will complain... And he has every right to do so. We cant have a different set of rules for each 'individual case'.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

That's awesome that the person who wake up was a cop! I still seriously wish I could have heard the conversation the crazy lady I ran into had with the cops, if that really was who she was talking to on the phone. I rolled my windows back up sick of dealing with her. This happened about 7 am in the late summer. I decided I didn't want to deal with her at the park while I was, and just left to go to the barn where I worked at and start earlier than planned. 

Another time was in early summer or late summer I don't remember. But I left the dogs in the car with the windows all down, parked in the shade, and a big bucket of water on the floor in the backseat. I ran into a store for a short while and came back to a couple surrounding my car. They started yelling at me about my dogs. It was a similar instance, hey check the dogs out they're fine, they're not even panting etc. The final thing they said was a half sheepish half forceful "well I just think dogs shouldn't be left alone without water if it's warm" giving me a glare. I said "you mean like that huge bucket?" and pointed. They mumbled somethingand left. When I worked at barns training horses my dogs always came to work with me, so if I stopped somewhere before or after they were in the car.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

SuperG said:


> I choose not to leave the dog in the car in the summer with the ac on....you are betting your dog's life that the car keeps running properly...
> 
> 
> SuperG


Agree!! I take my dogs a lot of places in the summer for training, competition, etc (these are all DOG places/events, not just randomly parking my dogs in a Walmart parking lot when it's 95* out) and never, ever, ever! rely on the AC running to keep my dogs safe. My van's AC goes in and out when the engine is idling. If it's too hot with windows down, hatches open, crate fans, shade, and water...then it's just too hot (but that's a very rare thing here. I mean there are plenty of people in FL, Texas, the deep south that also train and compete during the summer).


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

People are in other people's business far to often. Frankly, if you want to approach me over my dogs in the car you will not get far. If someone wants to involve AC and police then so be it. There needs to be some proper education floating around about this sort of things. Guidelines on when to pull the trigger and when to shut up and move along. Here in Canada some dogs live in the barns in the winter, a good wind blocking shelter that's insulated keeps dogs happy and healthy. 
I don't know, this dog movement things a bit much.

Lol soon there will be groups advocating for mandatory paw boots, hats and coats for winter weather, and if you don't have one it's will be AC and police at your door.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yay, it's 5 degrees out there. Babs is in my car. Been there all day. Had it running when Ninja was in with her, prior to taking Ninja to the vet. Then I put Ninja back in her outside kennel, and drove Babs and the girls back to my parents' stopping at the drug store for ice-melt along the way. I told the girls (they're eight) to go ahead and walk to Grandma's so they could Watch Louis and Clark with her. (I then stood out and watched the girls walk the half-country block to Grandma's.) Babs is in the car, I got the few things and drove the car here. It felt warm enough outside, so I didn't leave it running. 

I could have left her at home, but really, since I ran out of propane last night, it is warmer in my car than it is in my house right now, and being in a crate her body heat is helping. 

I had her under the covers last night. And Cujo slept with the girls. It was -6 degrees outside, but as it ran out last night, it was still pretty warm inside. I did wonder if it would have been better to leave the dogs outside where there was straw in their houses. Inside, their crates are just rubber/plastic crate pans. But everyone was warm enough. The dogs are used to and built for the weather. 

It is probably harder on dogs to be 95% of the time in 72 degree temperatures and then taken out into 3 degree weather, than for dogs that spend 10 or more hours a day outside year-round (with a properly sized dog house and straw) to spend a few hours in a car.


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

My dog always enjoyed going places in the car - to the mall or when I would grocery shop. He loves to watch people, and back when he was crated at home I figured it was more interesting for him to be crated in the car where there was more action. Unfortunately because of the sad cases in the news of kids and animals being trapped in hot cars I no longer take him with me. Even during the winter. It seems to be an issue that people overreact to now.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Lol soon there will be groups advocating for mandatory paw boots, hats and coats for winter weather, and if you don't have one it's will be AC and police at your door.




Ummmmm......you do have a helmet for your dogs....correct....you know a walking helmet...plus..I have a bathing helmet for my dog as well....bathtub is a dangerous place you know.


SuperProtective&CompliantG


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

SuperG said:


> Ummmmm......you do have a helmet for your dogs....correct....you know a walking helmet...plus..I have a bathing helmet for my dog as well....bathtub is a dangerous place you know.
> 
> 
> SuperProtective&CompliantG


You can't forget the that anti slip grip tub lining.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> You can't forget the that anti slip grip tub lining.



I ironed the anti-slip grit patches onto the bottoms of her paws.....


SuperG


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

SuperG said:


> I ironed the anti-slip grit patches onto the bottoms of her paws.....
> 
> 
> SuperG


Are you thinking bubble wrap just incase the slip grips give out and they fall?


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I just lol'd so hard


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

Dogs are a lot tougher than we are. Especially a GSD with a nice, thick coat. While I would't ever own an "outside" dog, I live on a farm that has always had at least one"outside only" dog. They have a dog house to go in to get out of the wind but unless it's a remarkably cold/windy day, they stay outside and they prefer it. Not a single one has had a major cold related problem…in 200 years on this farm lol. That being said, I wouldn't want to leave my inside dog in freezing temps for more than an hour or so but it's not because I think she'd get sick or hurt from it, I just know she prefers being inside. Our modern society is so funny when it comes to this kind of thing, what do they think horses, or deer, or wolves, or any kind of animal do when it's cold? I say take your buddy with you and let him enjoy spending more time with you. Now heat I think is a much different issue.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

While there are people who will call about kids, I think people are almost too quick to call about dogs, and they probably wouldn't do the same for kids. 

Today, I had my sister's kids, who are both 8. I thought about leaving them in the car, while I parked in front of Pilot to get them a piece of pizza so they could eat before gymnastics. Would have taken me two minutes. But it ran through my head that someone would probably call. Understand, that these two have just become legal without booster seats, LOL. 

And, there I am tonight, a few minutes ago, same place, but getting gas so probably 30 yards from the front of the store. I get out of my car, which is parked now closely to the pick up at the next pump, and I see a kid about four sitting in the front seat of the pick up. No booster seat. And no one else in the truck. Geeze. Truck is running too. Years ago, someone went in to pay for gas and their two year old kicked the car into gear and it ran over an 8 year old kid and her grandmother killing both. 

Well, I kind of walked around the car, looking at it, it was running probably to keep the kid warm, ok. It is cold out there, 1 degree. The father (I think) comes back, and he proceeds to put gas in his running pick up truck! Aren't you supposed to shut the engine off before pumping gas??? 

Well, maybe I m nuts, because I went in and searched around for ANYTHING I could spend the 65 cents I had in my pocket, and couldn't find anything so I ended up with something that cost 2.99 and put it on my debit card. But when I came out, there was this woman pumping gas next to me now, with a van full of people, while it was running.

So are cars made nowadays with baby-friendly air bags in the front of extended-cab pickups so brats don't need car seats, and that don't need to be shut off while pumping gas into them? Am I just nuts?

No, I didn't call the cops. But if it was a dog in the front seat scarfing pizza with no owner in sight, I am thinking some people probably would have. Actually, I thought about calling the cops. And I think some people probably would have. But, other than dogs running loose (and threatening) I have never turned people in for anything, dog or kid related. I have come close to calling about kids, twice, and this was on of them. 

I'll probably read an Amber Alert on the kid tomorrow, and kick myself for not getting a license plate number.


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## misterW (Jan 25, 2011)

I put a thermometer in my truck the other night. It was about -3 F. After about an hour it was down to 35 F. AFter a little over 2 hours it was down to 26 F. This is with her inside. Considering that she will happily stay out for hours in below zero temps and that I have never once seen her shiver, I'm not too concerned about leaving her in the truck in the cold.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

I admit I could be more educated about leaving dog's in cold cars.

Could somebody make a post as to why there is less danger? 

What are the dangers? 

What are the precautions you take? 

What are the temperatures acceptable?

How many dogs is acceptable?

How long is acceptable?

Based on acceptable number of dogs is there considerations for running out of oxygen... Or increased Carbon Monoxide due to to a running stationary car.. Or a switched off stationary car?

Windows closed? Slightly open?

If you can answer all these questions, and add points that are relevant that I missed. 

Then maybe people could be educated to see the situation more favourably...
If you have not at some time thought about these issues... And showed at least to yourself that these issues are objectively and scientifically non-issues.. Then there may be some bad practise.

If you have.. I would like to hear them..
People here say people should be more educated.

I am willing to be educated.
Shoot.

P.S. attached articles, stats or any sort of reliable documentation to support the argument will add value.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Has anyone other than me gone to sleep in a car and slept there all night with the windows all the way up and didn't die? That with my dog in the back of the car in a crate and she didn't die either? Are we really worried that the dog is going to run out of air in a vehicle? It's not exactly a bank vault.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

selzer said:


> Has anyone other than me gone to sleep in a car and slept there all night with the windows all the way up and didn't die? That with my dog in the back of the car in a crate and she didn't die either? Are we really worried that the dog is going to run out of air in a vehicle? It's not exactly a bank vault.


I came awfully close once. Waited in the car for an hour, almost didn't make it out alive.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I came awfully close once. Waited in the car for an hour, almost didn't make it out alive.


An HOUR !!!!!!...You live on the edge, my friend.....a regular adrenalin junkie....

SuperG


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

SuperG said:


> An HOUR !!!!!!...You live on the edge, my friend.....a regular adrenalin junkie....
> 
> SuperG


No..not even close
My hope Is to gather enough courage like those brave souls that use RV'S or.....camper vans....


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I came awfully close once. Waited in the car for an hour, almost didn't make it out alive.


was the car running?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

in my navy days driving cross country i would sleep in the car for a few hours.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

selzer, I've spent MANY nights sleeping through with 2 dogs in a car and all of the windows up and never come close to dying.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lin said:


> selzer, I've spent MANY nights sleeping through with 2 dogs in a car and all of the windows up and never come close to dying.


Good, I thought I was losing my mind. 

Misslesleedavis, how did you almost die in an hour? Was it 90 degrees out?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I take my dogs on short errands in both winter and summer. By short I mean I run into the gas station and run out. I have never taken them and ran into a store and left them in the car. If I'm in shorts and Tshirt and its 80 and my car is hot, they aren't going to be comfortable if I'm not. If I'm bundle up in layers on a 0 degree day and still freezing, I can't imagine they would be comfortable then either. Sure they can run and play in the snow when it's cold but they are moving, the blood is pumping. It's completely different then being stationary. Sure the wind might not be hitting them but it's still cold. I do not see any reason to bring a dog with to leave in the car to go shopping or out to eat. They can stay home where they belong. It just doesn't make sense to me to bring them with just so they can stay in the car and do the same thing they would do at home where it's either air conditioned or nice and toasty warm.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Guys these personal experiences of not dying in your own cars to me is kind of laughable...

I have also slept in my own car several times..
Once when I was much younger... With a friend with me.

We had a lot to drink. And we woke up in 35-40 degree Celsius heat (About 95-104 Fahrenheit) That is outside temperature not car temperature...

Here is the thing though... Car was stopped for hours before we got into the car to sleep. So the Carbon Monoxide theory was no danger (If there is even a possibility, i dont know, never researched it)...

Also when I sweat and feel sick... from alcohol or heat or otherwise...

And this is the crucial point... You are all missing...
You can open the door... and get out..
Dogs and little children cant..

Even in colder temperatures if it feels stuffy.. You can open a window..

Then there is the issue... of what does "cold" mean... It can mean a very large range of temperatures... So you have defined no situation exactly that is ok...
It can be too cold maybe... or too warm...

Many Guidelines simply say NEVER leave them in the car UNATTENDED.

So if you want to do it.. At least back it up with some litterature...

I mean dogs die all the time in cars...

People then go in threads and comment how the negligent dog walking lady should not be severely punished for killing 6 dogs in her vans... And I think the motivation to some of those posts is simply a case of:

"I do this... It can happen to me... It should not be punishable"...

"people forget"

Well I don't forget because I don't leave dogs in cars unattended for more than 5 minutes... I will never forget... Because I am paranoid for every single minute they are in there... 

For other people... Its "okay"... "mistakes happen"...


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Lykoz the lady who killed 6 dogs left her dogs in the heat. Lots of studies about cars and heat. 
-20 out right now, would I leave my dogs in the back of my truck for say 20 minutes? Yes. They are well insulated, protected from harsh wind and there are 3 of them pumping out body heat.
Would I leave them in the box of the truck in +30 weather? No. 
would I leave a hairless or short hair breed in the car for 30 minutes in - 20 weather? No. Carbon monoxide Is not a concern for me at all, I am not shoving a sock in my tail pipe upon leaving the car running.
Oh and my own personal experience was laughable it was supposed to be, the idea about running out if air in a car is laughable to me. Dogs can pretty much kick the bucket any were any time. They die on trains, planes, houses, vehicles 
And occasionally boats. I am not worried about it.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

When I was about 4 or 5 my dad's girlfriend took me and her daughter to walmart. She left us in her minivan in the parking lot. Doors locked, windows up, while she went in to shop. This was in Austin, tx in the summer. All I remember is how hot we were, how we had to use the restroom, and I kept wondering when this woman was coming back. It seemed like she was gone for an hour. I had never been so miserable in the heat locked inside the car. I didn't know what to do, I was only 5. The other girl was my age too. I take this kind of thing personally. If I see a dog locked in a car on a hot day, windows up, I am going to do something about it. Sometimes even if you have a bowl of water in the car it doesn't mean **** on a 90 degree day with the sun beating down. I have taken action in the past, and is will do it over and over again. For me hot is anything over 70degrees F, a dog or animal should not be left in a car for more than 5 minutes. A child shouldn't be left in the car at all... I just think if you can, it is safer to leave the dogs at home unless there is some reason why they need to come. For example, you are trAvelling cross country so your dog HAS to be in the car. Other than that, can't think of many scenarios where you would have to bring your dog. The winter though is a different story (for dogs, not children).


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Side note. My dogs were just outside for about 30 minutes while I was baking. I have a Florida room that is not heated, similar to the car environment only colder because I keep the sliding glass door open, anyways there is another sliding glass door that connects to my house, the dogs can easily come up the stairs and paw or bark and I will let them in. I just checked on them, sound asleep in the Florida room, option to come in but nope! They were happy to curl up and sleep on the carpet..I made them come only because I'm busy, but yes the Florida room is alot colder them my truck, and they were very happy in there.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have a 9.5 year old dog, two of them. One had a problem with her back, and I separated her from her pups (who are about a year old), this was a few months back, and gave her the inside of the house so that she could lie on a dog bed, and have heat during the day as well as at night. My other bitch was then Homeless because she usually has the run of the house, and that area so she can use the doggy door to potty. Otherwise it may be 14 hours before I get back home what with working and the drive there and back. 

So I put Babs in the car. It was 50 degrees. Temps change in Ohio, so I left the back open -- oooh, it's cold, it's too cold, cruelty to animals -- this is a couple of cops talking. It is so much less cruel to leave the bitch at home where she must cross her legs and wait for me to get home without pottying all day long. When I have her with me, I can go out and walk her several times, we eat together, we do some training, and she LOVES to ride in the car. If you let her out, she will pee and then run back to her car. 

If it is 3 degrees, or -15, or 75 degrees, I can understand people being concerned and calling the police. But 50 degrees -- it may feel a little cool to you, but GSDs are still a bit warm in that temperature, not cold. 

I do sometimes have a dog when I stop to shop. ONLY if the temps are ok. I shop in the middle of the night, so it's always ok. It can be 85 degrees, but the dog will not die in the car, not in the middle of the night.

Lykoz, I want for you to find ONE news story of a dog dying in a cold car. Just one. Post a link. Post a statistic and a link, of dogs that die in cold cars. 

As for carbon monoxide -- that would be inside a closed garage with the car running. Bad. Outside a car will not become saturated with carbon monoxide, even if it is left running. 

If I leave a car running in this weather, sometimes it is for the critter, sometime it is because I will be cold when I get in.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

selzer said:


> Lykoz, I want for you to find ONE news story of a dog dying in a cold car. Just one. Post a link. Post a statistic and a link, of dogs that die in cold cars.


Ok, that makes sense... We have established that dogs only die in hot cars...
You would think that would win me over... Not quite.. And not yet...

Lets work on the *definition of cold*...
What is cold? How do these temperatures change? And how quickly can the situation change?

Now lets look at *temperature variations during the day*, in a more extreme case:
An area like the Snake River Plain can have high temperatures of 38 °C (100 °F) during a summer day, and then have lows of 5–10 °C (41–50 °F).

In a more extreme case... Lets talk *Record high's and lows* on the same day:

the world* record is a variation of 102 °F* (57 °C) (from 46 °F (8 °C) to −56 °F (−49 °C)) in Browning, Montana in 1916,

the Montana Department of Environmental Quality claimed that Loma, Montana had a variation of 103 °F (57 °C) (from −54 °F (−48 °C) to 49 °F (9 °C)) in 1972.

Source- Diurnal temperature Variation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diurnal_temperature_variation

"Veterinarian Dr Owen Martin from Warsaw Animal hospital told WITN: *'In 10 to 20 minutes the temperature will rise pretty good in a car'.* 
'On a hot summers day it's well over 100 [degrees] in 10 to 20 minutes. *Keep in mind at 107 degrees the body system starts to fail *and you can't survive much longer than that.'"
Excerpt from article: Police dog Kela dies after deputy leaves him in patrol car overnight | Daily Mail Online

Now lets look at that objectively... 10-20 minutes can change everything in a car....

*It is theoretically possible for temperatures to fluctuate up or down to 100 Farenheit In variation in the same day*..

So that leaves with 2 very important characteristics....

What is considered a "cold day"... How will those temperatures vary over several hours.... And how quickly with the car increase those effects?

Its not as cut and dry as some people think...

Sometimes you cant see it on the surface... But when you dig a bit...
It becomes pretty obvious... That a mistake... Could happen, on a strange day... On a single day... You just dont expect it to happen...
So leaving a dog for several hours every day... Whilst your locked in an office with heating or aircon... Might be disastrous.

Everything can change in 8, 4, 2 or maybe less hours..

And you dont need a world record event to happen.... You may be on the limit of what you consider 'cold'... Then all of a sudden... within an hour that changes... And suddenly your dog is stuck in a situation you consider hot... Compounded by the furnace that is a car...

And as the vet says... It takes 10 to 20 minutes for the car to start cooking...


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

So yes dogs may have been left in a 'cold' car.... But they always die in a 'hot' car...

Same day... Same Car... Completely possible...

Now do that every day... Your whole life...

And one day... It is very probable that the weather, will catch you out..


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lykoz said:


> So yes dogs may have been left in a 'cold' car.... But they always die in a 'hot' car...
> 
> Same day... Same Car... Completely possible...
> 
> ...


In NE Ohio, where I live, I have left dogs in cars, weather permitting, for 20 years. I have never lost a dog this way. But then, I am a bit nuts, leaving the back open and windows partially open in 50 degree weather, just in case it gets warmer and some yayhoo decides to close my hatch, the dogs will STILL be ok. 

What is far more likely in my case, is my house burning down while I am gone. Then some of my dogs will be dead. But I cannot thumb my nose at the rest of the world and choose to never work again because if I do, my dogs might die in my burning house. Dogs do die in house-fires all the time. It usually doesn't make the news because it really isn't news. It isn't out of the ordinary. Firefighter saves dog -- that is newsworthy. It makes people feel good. But if he doesn't manage it, it is just a part of the tragedy. 

And yes, temperatures can fluctuate during the course of a day, but you do not step out of your house at 4:00 AM, and say, "40 degrees F, nice and cool, dog will be ok until 5PM in the car with the windows up." That's nuts. Dog will be ok in there until six am, sure. But once the sun is up, you are checking on the dog. And if you leave the car at 4 AM, you are basing how you leave the dog by how hot it _might get_ today, not how hot it is. If it might get up to sixty, you configure your car as though it might get up to eighty. And you check on the dog in regular intervals.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

of course some of us could just use common sense and keep our dogs alive!


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

selzer said:


> In NE Ohio, where I live, I have left dogs in cars, weather permitting, for 20 years. I have never lost a dog this way. But then, I am a bit nuts, leaving the back open and windows partially open in 50 degree weather, just in case it gets warmer and some yayhoo decides to close my hatch, the dogs will STILL be ok.
> 
> What is far more likely in my case, is my house burning down while I am gone. Then some of my dogs will be dead. But I cannot thumb my nose at the rest of the world and choose to never work again because if I do, my dogs might die in my burning house. Dogs do die in house-fires all the time. It usually doesn't make the news because it really isn't news. It isn't out of the ordinary. Firefighter saves dog -- that is newsworthy. It makes people feel good. But if he doesn't manage it, it is just a part of the tragedy.
> 
> And yes, temperatures can fluctuate during the course of a day, but you do not step out of your house at 4:00 AM, and say, "40 degrees F, nice and cool, dog will be ok until 5PM in the car with the windows up." That's nuts. Dog will be ok in there until six am, sure. But once the sun is up, you are checking on the dog. And if you leave the car at 4 AM, you are basing how you leave the dog by how hot it _might get_ today, not how hot it is. If it might get up to sixty, you configure your car as though it might get up to eighty. And you check on the dog in regular intervals.


Can it not be just as likely that your car burns down instead of your house? 
Things burn down.. it happens.
Does not change the risk I mentioned.

I think we are losing the topic of discussion here a bit.

Just for interest here is a case of a house burning down just because of a mechanical failure in a car...
Car Fire Ignites Garage, Spreads to Attic, Burns Down Monahans F - KWES NewsWest 9 / Midland, Odessa, Big Spring, TX: newswest9.com |

So I could theoretically argue your dogs are safer because they are home alone without the car...
But again, we are picking at straws here.

Here are causes of fires by the fire department... (I love america... They have stats for everything)
http://www.usfa.fema.gov/data/statistics/


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nope, I do not have a garage. So my car is no where near my house. There is 100 feet of snow between my house and my car, LOL! And it is not as likely for your car to burn down than your house. Your house has a furnace, pumps, light fixtures, and all sorts of items that might strart a fire. Cars have gasoline in them, but even in a wreck they rarely catch on fire. 

What I am suggesting is that it is more likely for my dog to die being at home, than in my vehicle, within reason. 

Dogs don't die in cold cars. At least, not from being cold. The inside temperature is generally warmer than the outside, and dogs can survive outside in extreme temperatures. At least, I have never seen ANY report of a dog dying from exposure after being left in a vehicle in extremely cold temperatures.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

selzer said:


> Nope, I do not have a garage. So my car is no where near my house. There is 100 feet of snow between my house and my car, LOL! And it is not as likely for your car to burn down than your house. Your house has a furnace, pumps, light fixtures, and all sorts of items that might strart a fire. Cars have gasoline in them, but even in a wreck they rarely catch on fire.
> 
> What I am suggesting is that it is more likely for my dog to die being at home, than in my vehicle, within reason.
> 
> Dogs don't die in cold cars. At least, not from being cold. The inside temperature is generally warmer than the outside, and dogs can survive outside in extreme temperatures. At least, I have never seen ANY report of a dog dying from exposure after being left in a vehicle in extremely cold temperatures.


And a car is a tank of petrol...

The stats I attached show that vehicle fires are half as likely as residential fires... But you need to consider that residential fires often have cars involved in that residence...

I am not really buying that an animal is at a more immediate danger to a house fire, than dying of heat stroke.. 

However... Ill consider to find middle ground.

Everybody be educated on your own country. And where you live.
Including fluctuations of weather. As well as temperature. 

Cant really compare an area covered in snow, to the sunny place I live in...

A device that will show you the temperature in your car in your office would be nice to have IMO.

Be educated if you live in a place with high propensity for house fires... (Usually its not houses filled with snow... Its usually very hot areas, that are more likely to catch fires.. But anyways.)

And draw an educated opinion based on all the situational criteria of that area.

The end 

In my place of residence... People who leave their dogs for long periods of time in a car are not really being responsible.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lykoz said:


> And a car is a tank of petrol...
> 
> The stats I attached show that vehicle fires are half as likely as residential fires... But you need to consider that residential fires often have cars involved in that residence...
> 
> ...


Actually, you are not quite correct there. In cold areas, people need to have furnaces running, furnaces and dryers and space heaters, and wood burners/chimneys are all a big factor in house fires. Also, electrical problems cause house fires in cold areas as much as warm areas. 

The kind of home you have too can make a difference. A brick house is less likely to go down in flames than a mobile home. Mobile homes have bullseyes painted on them when it comes to tornadoes and they seem to go up like match boxes. Also, they often have less than stellar insulation, wiring, conduit, etc, and fires are too common. 

Christmas trees and space heaters = fires. When you live in a trailer, they are not always that tight, propane runs out, the space heaters come out. I used to never leave them on when I am gone, but when it is -23 degrees F out there, and your pipes are going to freeze, you might just leave the space heater on. If you are out of propane. 

The other big reason for fires is meth. People have meth labs and, I don't think warm places have meth labs homes in greater proportion than we have here. 

So no, unless we are talking about houses going down due to forest fires, house fires are not more common where it is warm.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I was at the grocery store tonight, and it was snowing, just above zero temps and blowing hard. The car in front of mine had dogs barking, I couldn't see them due to the snow on the windshield. I bet that owner had fun getting the frost off of the inside of the windows with all that barking going on.


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