# OK so this is kind of a rant....



## GSD MOM (Apr 21, 2010)

We visit our pet store often. Our dog Nellie even had her OB classes there. We have been going there at least once a week for the past 2.5 years. About 6 months ago the pet store hired a new employee\trainer. She use to breed GSD. I know this only because she drops to the floor and makes all over my dogs when we walk in. One day a while back we walked by her training class and she came out of class to say HI to the dogs. She left all 10 people and their dogs sitting in class while she petted and played with Nellie and Ace. She has her dog Kora which is a bi-colored female GSD that she uses for classes. Heres the problem. She allows Kora off leash in the store!!!! I have ran in there so many times over the last 6 months and Kora is never leashed. She even grabs balls off the racks and has Kora playing fetch in the dog food isles. I have already spoken to the store manager that said she was going to take care of it but COME ON!!!!??? Would you ever allow your GSD to be off leash in a public store???!!! Kora always barks at Nellie and Ace because I refuse for them to stop and play with her. I just can't support this non sense. She is a full blooded GSD that is running loose in a public place. Sometimes she is two isles apart from her. If she is checking people out she just allows Kora to go visit with anyone, any place. Am I over reacting or is this STUPID!!!???!!???!!???!


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I certainly wouldn't want a dog off leash when I take my dogs into a pet store. To me, it is socially rude. If I've got Hondo, I don't want some other dog sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. And my new dach would have a heart attack if she saw another dog rambling towards her. 

To me, taking the dogs into places where they are allowed is a way of getting them socialized in a controlled manner. If I wanted them to play off leash, I'd take them to a dog park.


----------



## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

Talk to the store manager again, and say the magic word..."liability." If that dog bites or knocks down a child that store is in big trouble.


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

It doesn't sound like the dog is a liability it sounds like she is annoying the OP.


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

the pet sore I used to go to had a slogan "dogs welcome people optional" She had her dog loose in the store and to me it just conveyed that the store was for the dogs


----------



## dianefbarfield (Apr 12, 2010)

We train at Petsmart. Even with the training room door closed, they require all dogs to be on leash, just in case. We can let go of Lizzie but the leash stays on her and they have an extra long training lead we can hook her too so she feels like she is loose. They would never allow a loose dog. I think she is asking for trouble, because just once a kid is going to come in with an ice cream cone in his hand and the dog being a dog will want a bite. People are sue happy and will look for a reason to file a complaint. So why ask for trouble?


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

When I was visiting my brother in Dayton, I went in that store!! I was surprised to see the dog off lead myself. I chatted with the dog owner a bit. She was working the cash register so her dog was staying there. I have to admit I would be a surprised to see it running in the store unattended.

I go to a small store here to buy food. The owners have their schnuauzers loose in there sometimes. Of course, Hogan pup goes crazy to get to them to play and they head for the hills when we come in, so that takes care of any possible problems!

I can see the privately owned store doing this, but not so much the big box store.


----------



## GSD MOM (Apr 21, 2010)

Samba said:


> When I was visiting my brother in Dayton, I went in that store!! I was surprised to see the dog off lead myself. I chatted with the dog owner a bit. She was working the cash register so her dog was staying there. I have to admit I would be a surprised to see it running in the store unattended.


She is a nice enough lady. Super smart and as far as trainers go, one of the best we have seen in that store for awhile. And her dog is VERT well behaved. Not to mention so cute but I just don't think is smart to have her off the lead.


----------



## HMV (May 17, 2010)

I think it's kind of asking for trouble, I mean what's going to happen if someone with a dog that shows aggression to other dogs walks in with the dog on a leash. You can hardly blame the owner of the aggressive dog, they have acted responsibly by having it on a leash.


----------



## samralf (Dec 23, 2008)

GSD MOM said:


> She is a nice enough lady. Super smart and as far as trainers go, one of the best we have seen in that store for awhile. And her dog is VERT well behaved. Not to mention so cute but I just don't think is smart to have her off the lead.



Is there anyway you can tell me which store?


----------



## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I think it is inappropriate and a liability for the dog to be running loose. What if the dog bolted out the door and got hurt? Or comes around a corner to fast and knocks a little kid over? Or bites a kid? Even NICE dogs have limits, if a kid or someone finds that limit, you can bet it'll be blamed on the dog.

Not only that, if its a pet store, then not everyone who goes into the store is there for dogs. Some may not even like dogs. I wont hesitate to wack a dog with a stick thats charging at me on a walk, I dont want to think about what someone would do who is afraid of dogs and comes face to face with one unexpectedly.

She may be nice, but she is putting herself and her dog at risk.


----------



## GSD MOM (Apr 21, 2010)

GSDolch said:


> I think it is inappropriate and a liability for the dog to be running loose. What if the dog bolted out the door and got hurt? Or comes around a corner to fast and knocks a little kid over? Or bites a kid? Even NICE dogs have limits, if a kid or someone finds that limit, you can bet it'll be blamed on the dog.
> 
> Not only that, if its a pet store, then not everyone who goes into the store is there for dogs. Some may not even like dogs. I wont hesitate to wack a dog with a stick thats charging at me on a walk, I dont want to think about what someone would do who is afraid of dogs and comes face to face with one unexpectedly.
> 
> She may be nice, but she is putting herself and her dog at risk.


 
Some key things in here as to how I feel. This store carrys pet supplies for all types of animals. What if someone comes in for goldfish food and gets greated at the door by a GSD off leash. I don't think its okay. I think it should be stopped.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Lilie said:


> I certainly wouldn't want a dog off leash when I take my dogs into a pet store. To me, it is socially rude. If I've got Hondo, I don't want some other dog sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. And my new dach would have a heart attack if she saw another dog rambling towards her. To me, taking the dogs into places where they are allowed is a way of getting them socialized in a controlled manner. If I wanted them to play off leash, I'd take them to a dog park.


If your dog "would have a heart attack" if another dog came toward her, do you really think that you should bring her into a public place? Does having a heart attack mean that she would get scared and nervous or that she would be aggressive, etc.?


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I sort of agree that it isn't a real good idea for her dog to be in the store off leas, but it appears that a lot of people appear to be over reacting, esp. the person who seems to think that it is even worse because the dog is a GSD. Do you really think that?


----------



## GSD MOM (Apr 21, 2010)

codmaster said:


> I sort of agree that it isn't a real good idea for her dog to be in the store off leas, but it appears that a lot of people appear to be over reacting, esp. the person who seems to think that it is even worse because the dog is a GSD. Do you really think that?


 
Yes I do!!!!!! I think the German Shepherd named has been trashed by people that think every GSD is bad. The same thing I see happening to pit bulls. I also feel that is wouldn't be as big of a deal if it was a little dog or a lab or something of that nature. I can say that with both my dogs I see and get a lot of bad reactions when people see them.


----------



## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

GSD MOM said:


> Some key things in here as to how I feel. This store carrys pet supplies for all types of animals. What if someone comes in for goldfish food and gets greated at the door by a GSD off leash. I don't think its okay. I think it should be stopped.



Yeah, I have no doubt that her dog is really sweet and would probably sooner lick someone to death than hurt them. But thats not the point. If anything, and I mean anything goes wrong, even accidental, her and her dog and the store are going to be blamed.


----------



## GSD MOM (Apr 21, 2010)

GSDolch said:


> Yeah, I have no doubt that her dog is really sweet and would probably sooner lick someone to death than hurt them. But thats not the point. If anything, and I mean anything goes wrong, even accidental, her and her dog and the store are going to be blamed.


That's how I feel. I think it needs to be stopped. If your a trainer you should know better. This is why we started using a different store.


----------



## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

This is a tough call. I have seen merchants often have their docile, mild mannered dog off leash, usually behind the counter. Let the owner know you are disturbed by this practice, and as far as you know, dogs (their customers) don't carry cash or checkbooks...then simply take your cash and checkbook elsewhere.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

That is not responsible whatsoever. Not all dogs or cats like other dogs. Her dog can easily get hurt. Epecially since this woman is a trainer and was a GSD breeder she should know better.What if someone comes in with a baby?

I say talk to the manager again.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

codmaster said:


> If your dog "would have a heart attack" if another dog came toward her, do you really think that you should bring her into a public place? Does having a heart attack mean that she would get scared and nervous or that she would be aggressive, etc.?


Uh, you mean don't take our dogs in public because other owners are IDIOTS? My little one has been attacked by larger dogs, and she is fearful of a large dog quickly approaching us. She will be going in public with me until she dies.


I think it's stupid to have GSD running loose in a store. Not everyone who has pets or likes them and comes to a pet store wants to see a large breed - known for being vicious - running loose with no owner in site. What about with with dog aggressive dogs? I'm sure they really don't like it. And don't say that people with DA dogs should stay home, or wouldn't be in the pet store, because a pet store -where dogs are required to be on leash- are sometimes the perfect place to work a DA dog. 

It IS a liability. All the dog has to do is gently bump a toddler and have the kid hit it's sort little head on a shelf or something while it falls, and it will quickly be the GSD and it's owner's fault - and rightly so.

Or what if it has high prey drive, and a cat or small animal owner comes in with their pet? I have seen ferrets, iguanas, domestic and wild type cats brought in on a leash to my local pet store. 

I would be pissed.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> That is not responsible whatsoever. Not all dogs or cats like other dogs. Her dog can easily get hurt. Epecially since this woman is a trainer and was a GSD breeder she should know better.What if someone comes in with a baby?I say talk to the manager again.


What does someone coming in with a baby have to do with it? Do you think the dog would attack a baby?


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

codmaster said:


> What does someone coming in with a baby have to do with it? Do you think the dog would attack a baby?


The dog may run into the person carrying the baby and the baby fall out of the person's arms or the person falls down and the baby and person both hit their heads on the ground


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> The dog may run into the person carrying the baby and the baby fall out of the person's arms or the person falls down and the baby and person both hit their heads on the ground


 
Oh!


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

APBTLove said:


> Uh, you mean don't take our dogs in public because other owners are IDIOTS? My little one has been attacked by larger dogs, and she is fearful of a large dog quickly approaching us. She will be going in public with me until she dies.
> 
> *So you are worried that your dog would be scared? Is that right? I would guess that she would be if she has been attacked before. *
> 
> ...


*Why would you be pissed? And what at?*

*BTW, a GSD can have a very high prey drive and yet still be under control on or off lead. Would you think it is ok to bring in a Sch 3 GSD to the store even if on a lead?*


----------



## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

i hate leashes, so yes, if i could, i would leave my dogs off leash


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

lcht2 said:


> i hate leashes, so yes, if i could, i would leave my dogs off leash


Whats wrong with leashes? I for sure wouldn't no matter how well trained a dog is. You might as well ask for a lawsuit.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

lcht2 said:


> i hate leashes, so yes, if i could, i would leave my dogs off leash


 
Me too, but unfortunately my dog is not ready for that degree of freedom!


----------



## GSD MOM (Apr 21, 2010)

Also around the same topic. When we were in training with Ace, fall of last year, a lady brought her Flemish Giant Rabbit into the store. No biggie right..... well she had him\her riding in the cart on the crate below the basket. hahaha. Ace had already learned the 'leave it" command. Thank goodness...also not very smart.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my dog is rarely on a leash. i keep a leash with me
just in case i need it.

when we leave the house my dog gets
his leash.

if your dog does something while leashed that warrants
a lawsuit you're sued. i get your point. with a leashed dog
you probably have a better chance of avoiding a lawsuit.



Jessiewessie99 said:


> Whats wrong with leashes? I for sure wouldn't no matter how well trained a dog is. You might as well ask for a lawsuit.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

GSD MOM :

why don't you ask the lady to contain the dog while you're
in the store. tell her it makes you uncomfortable.

i'm surprised she's allowed to have her dog
running around in a Pet Store.


----------



## GSD MOM (Apr 21, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> GSD MOM :
> 
> why don't you ask the lady to contain the dog while you're
> in the store. tell her it makes you uncomfortable.
> ...


I did talk to the manager. But it didn't seem to do much good. This is a national chain pet store. I was also surprised it was allowed. We just don't take the dogs in that store anymore. I don't need any drama or trouble. I will just spend my money else where.


----------



## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Whats wrong with leashes? I for sure wouldn't no matter how well trained a dog is. You might as well ask for a lawsuit.


 
which hense the reason i dont go to the pet stores and if i do, i dont take my dog. i dont need people strikeing up annoying conversations and wanting to pet my dog. there are also way to many people who will let there dogs walk right up and go nose to nose with another dog, so i avoid the conflict. this is no fun for either one of us so where is the lawsuit? there isnt one, responsability over rides all the chances...

here is a perfect example...so we took our pup lucia to petsmart last weekend to get her a little harness. first time i've been there in god knows how long. my blood boiled at the people who walk right up and take the liberty of petting and then asking questions. there were kids running loose just freely comeing up and petting her without asking...i dont need this with an adult dog. GSD's are not your every day golden or lab who love being coddled over by whoever is willing to do so...so again, where is the lawsuit? there isnt one..


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

lcht2 said:


> which hense the reason i dont go to the pet stores and if i do, i dont take my dog. i dont need people strikeing up annoying conversations and wanting to pet my dog. there are also way to many people who will let there dogs walk right up and go nose to nose with another dog, so i avoid the conflict. this is no fun for either one of us so where is the lawsuit? there isnt one, responsability over rides all the chances...
> 
> here is a perfect example...so we took our pup lucia to petsmart last weekend to get her a little harness. first time i've been there in god knows how long. my blood boiled at the people who walk right up and take the liberty of petting and then asking questions. there were kids running loose just freely comeing up and petting her without asking...i dont need this with an adult dog. GSD's are not your every day golden or lab who love being coddled over by whoever is willing to do so...so again, where is the lawsuit? there isnt one..



Your dog may bite someone or scratch a kid and the parent will get upset and file a lawsuit on you.

If you see a kid running up to your dog, stop the kid and tell them to be gentle and tell the kid "Ask before you pet."

Whats wrong with people striking up a conversation? or asking questions?whats wrong with them wanting to pet your dog? As long as they ask, whats the problem?What if they ask to pet your dog, and ask questions about the GSD breed or want to talk about GSDs?If someone is letting their dog run up to your dog or anything, tell the person that your dog is not good with other dogs. If your dog bites the other dog the other dog's owner will file a law suit on you.This is why people socialize their dogs, to prevent this.

And if your dog is not good with kids or other dogs then you should be taking them there anyways. Thats why people socialize their dogs, they bring them to Petsmart or something and get them working on their socialization.


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

GSD MOM said:


> I did talk to the manager. But it didn't seem to do much good. This is a national chain pet store. I was also surprised it was allowed. We just don't take the dogs in that store anymore. I don't need any drama or trouble. I will just spend my money else where.


Since it bothers you and the manager has done nothing, go up the food chain and complain to the chain's national headquaters.


----------



## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

GSD MOM said:


> I did talk to the manager. But it didn't seem to do much good. This is a national chain pet store. I was also surprised it was allowed. We just don't take the dogs in that store anymore. I don't need any drama or trouble. I will just spend my money else where.


 
if it were me, and after talking to the store manager, i would walk my dog in there off leash and wait for the manager...then tell the manager their trainer is setting a bad example.......


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

If it bothered me that much I just wouldn't shop there...Anja would be fine with all of the scenarios except sadly for the rabbit she would eat the rabbit...she's such a good girl...except for the rabbit of course we all have a few faults


----------



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I love dogs but I think what the trainer did was wrong. It's not about her dog being well behaved. What about the customers aggressive dogs that may be there? I know a lot of people who bring in their "reactive" dogs for exposure and to work on issues.

At my petsmart, people come in for grooming/vet. Not all those dogs being brought in are dog friendly. IMO, it's not about being irresponsible by bringing in an aggressive dog into a Pet store when the pet store offers other services which includes a vet clinic and grooming open to the public and it's usually located IN THE BACK OF THE STORE. How are those dogs supposed to get back there without running into an off-leash dog? While her dog may be great, other dogs aren't and she's risking her dog's welfare not to mention the liability issues.

You have a right to enter that store without being confronted by a huge dog coming up to you. IMO, it's rude. And not everyone there is a dog lover. A lot of people are afraid. Everyone has rights here not just the dog trainer.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

codmaster said:


> *
> 
> So you are worried that your dog would be scared? Is that right? I would guess that she would be if she has been attacked before.
> I don't worry about her being scared, I pick her up. She does get uncomfortable and defensive with rough big dogs, or dogs running up on her.
> ...


*


My replies in bold *


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

IllinoisNative said:


> ............ You have a right to enter that store without being confronted by a huge dog coming up to you. IMO, it's rude. And not everyone there is a dog lover. A lot of people are afraid. Everyone has rights here not just the dog trainer.


Did this trainer say that her dog confronted everyone in the store? I agree that she probably shouldn't have her dog loose in the store but I didn't see that anywhere.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

So you are worried that your dog would be scared? Is that right? I would guess that she would be if she has been attacked before. 
*I don't worry about her being scared, I pick her up. She does get uncomfortable and defensive with rough big dogs, or dogs running up on her. *

*Sounds like she would be scared of any dog coming up on her. I guess she would feel better if she can see the leash on another dog? What would be a "rough" dog and I wonder how she could tell that a particular dog is a "rough" one? BTW, a dog on a leash could certainly also run up to your dog and scare her just like an off leash one esp if the handler isn't paying attention.*

But would your dog feel any better if the dog coming toward her was on a leash? My real question was why would the unleashed dog be so much worse. i doubt if your dog would really be able to know the other dog is not on a leash since it could be wearing an e-collar also.
*She seems to realize she's okay if the other dog isn't bounding toward her, and is staying with it's owner (on or off lead), because she is calm. A dog running up to us off leash, which is the only way a dog is going to rush up on us, will make her tense up. Sounds like she probably could use some sensitization training.*

Why is it so bad to have a GSD doing that? Would an Akita be ok? Pit Bull? Or how about another Dachshund?
*While I would not agree with any dog doing it, people are scared of GSDs, they're portrayed at every given chance as bloodthirsty monsters by the media and they are large, and rather intimidating looking to some people. I would be even more pissed at someone letting a bully breed run loose in a store with other animals, with their breeding, it's like putting a cat and a rat in a room together and saying "Play nice."*

*I am curious as to why you would be "more pissed" if it were a pit bull? BTW, what about an Akita - another, even bigger, fighting breed? I guess that a Rottie would also be even worse in your opinion than a GSD since people are even more scared of these than GSD's at least from what I have seen.*


Are you saying that all GSD's are vicious? A little breed bias maybe? I once knew a neighbors dachshund who bit their son three times in the year that we knew them - does that mean that dachshunds are viscious? *Well, is it?
Having owned them for over a decade, and knowing quite a lot about the breed, I would never call them all vicious, nor any breed as a whole. No, it means that that dog was either unstable or being severely provoked and was owned by idiots. *
*Which dog? The one the trainer let run around off lead? I didn't hear anything about that dog being viscious, did I miss that? I guess having owned them that long you would know quite a bit about them! I myself have only had GSD's since about 1972.*

Are you serious? Even on lead dogs get very close to one another in a store - anyone with a known DA dog should NOT take them into a store (unless they are muzzled!).
*Not if the owner of the DA dog is in charge. All they need to do is tell people to back off if they're letting their dog all over yours, keep your dog close and stay alert to upcoming idiots. *
*So it is ok for someone to bring a DA dog into a store and everyone else has to "back off" and get out of THEIR way all over the store? *
*I think that the idiot that you refer to is the one who brings a known DA dog into a public place unmuzzled! That is a LOT worse than having an overly friendly dog in my opinion. Would you also agree that it is ok to bring a people aggressive dog into the store as long as you tell everyone to "back off' and get out of their way?*

Why would you be pissed? And what at?
*Me? I'd be pissed that someone is giving their dog a chance to cause a scene and further damage our breed's reputation. I would be pissed to see a large animal running around unchecked in a place of business. I'd be mad at the owner. But the GSD in question didn't do anything did it? You sure that you haven't bought into the bad reputation that you mentioned above about GSD's?*

BTW, a GSD can have a very high prey drive and yet still be under control on or off lead. Would you think it is ok to bring in a Sch 3 GSD to the store even if on a lead?
*But WHY take the chance? Animals mess up just like people, all it takes is one second of disobedience, or as it sounds, the animal isn't even with it's owner to hear the command "Leave it" when a small animal goes by, for someone, or several someone's, to have their minds on GSD's changed and it would make the headlines "German Shepherd mauls pet cat in *store name*" Followed by however many people reading it thinking GSDs are monsters.*
*Many GSD's would not NEED any command to leave all dogs and other animals alone whether they are with their owner or by themselves. Also, you seem to assume that a dog off lead is going to run around by itself - not true all the time. Many will stay right next to their owners!*
* 

Why not? SchH does not make a dog aggressive, if that's what you're implying. 

It does teach them that it is ok to actually bite people under some circumstances, doesn't it. If you are worried about their reputation try telling some one that you have actually trained your GSD in protection and then see their reaction! I have done Sch training and I agree that if done Right the dog should be more stable and trustworthy, but would you say that everyone who does Sch does it right and have stable dogs to start with?

A dog on a proper leash and a proper collar with proper training can be safe anywhere. 

So can a dog offlead in many instances! 

I agree that the trainer is taking a risk to herself by doing what she did but lets stay serious and not get too carried away.

But enough of this topic as you do seem to have your mind very well made up!*


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

codmaster said:


> *Sounds like she would be scared of any dog coming up on her. I guess she would feel better if she can see the leash on another dog? What would be a "rough" dog and I wonder how she could tell that a particular dog is a "rough" one? BTW, a dog on a leash could certainly also run up to your dog and scare her just like an off leash one esp if the handler isn't paying attention.*
> *I don't think it's her seeing the leash, it's her seeing the dog not coming after her, I don't let her get close enough to a dog on or off leash if it's showing any signs of being TOO interested in her. If it's calm, and unfocused on her, yeah, we'll get a little closer after talking to the other owner for her to greet the dog. But she never gets close enough for a dog to hurt her, I make sure of that, if we're passing someone with a dog, big or small, who doesn't seem under good control, I pick her tiny butt up wand walk by.*


Broke the post up because of space limit.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

> Sounds like she probably could use some sensitization training.[/B]
> *She probably could, but her behavior isn't severe enough to warrant it, in my opinion.*
> 
> *I am curious as to why you would be "more pissed" if it were a pit bull? BTW, what about an Akita - another, even bigger, fighting breed? I guess that a Rottie would also be even worse in your opinion than a GSD since people are even more scared of these than GSD's at least from what I have seen.*
> ...


My mind is very well made up, I will never take the chance for something to happen to my dog. Even another dog biting mine and causing him to snap back would likely be blamed on him for being a GSD, as opposed to Buddy the Lab, you know, America's favorite dog..


----------



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Did this trainer say that her dog confronted everyone in the store? I agree that she probably shouldn't have her dog loose in the store but I didn't see that anywhere.


It's about what could have been. If I'm walking into the store to purchase goldfish and I have a fear of large dogs, the LAST thing I need is a loose big dog coming towards me. Period. That's just commen sense and the RESPECTFUL thing to do. People have to think of others. Sadly that is a sentiment that's been lost in the later generations. IMO, it's selfish to only thing about what *I* want. My decisions affect others. It's a freaking store. There are other places to have dogs off leash and that isn't a pet store where other anti-social dogs may be because of the vets office and grooming salon. That stupidity is right up there with bringing a dog on a flexi-leash to a pet store. While your dog may be friendly, others aren't.

She can't control other people, other dogs, children, etc., so who the Sam Hill does she think she is to let her dog loose in a store that specifically says the dogs have to be on leash? It ridiculous to expect others to accommodate her and her dog. It's unprofessional, disrespectful, irresponsible and, most likely, against store policy.

I know a lot of people who bring their dogs to Pet Smart/PetCo to work on leash reactivity. Does it help to have an off leash dog there? No. I don't care how well-behaved the dog is.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

IllinoisNative said:


> It's about what could have been. If I'm walking into the store to purchase goldfish and I have a fear of large dogs, the LAST thing I need is a loose big dog coming towards me. Period. That's just commen sense and the RESPECTFUL thing to do. People have to think of others. Sadly that is a sentiment that's been lost in the later generations. IMO, it's selfish to only thing about what *I* want. My decisions affect others. It's a freaking store. There are other places to have dogs off leash and that isn't a pet store where other anti-social dogs may be because of the vets office and grooming salon. That stupidity is right up there with bringing a dog on a flexi-leash to a pet store. While your dog may be friendly, others aren't.
> 
> She can't control other people, other dogs, children, etc., so who the Sam Hill does she think she is to let her dog loose in a store that specifically says the dogs have to be on leash? It ridiculous to expect others to accommodate her and her dog. It's unprofessional, disrespectful, irresponsible and, most likely, against store policy.
> 
> I know a lot of people who bring their dogs to Pet Smart/PetCo to work on leash reactivity. Does it help to have an off leash dog there? No. I don't care how well-behaved the dog is.


:thumbup:


----------



## Melissa (Mar 17, 2010)

what if the dog made an accident in the store (regardless is its toilet trained or not)
and someone slipped and really hurt themself ??
has she thought of this 
if shes meant to be doing classes and working in th store she clearly cannot be watching the dog 24/7 otherwise she would not be working right???
so what if this did happen
she would be liable yet so would the store 
i work in the legal field and there are sooo many things wrong with this situation its not funny
someone should point out the legalities (which have been previously brought up by other posters) to her before something extream happens and they have a suit on their hands.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

IllinoisNative said:


> It's about what could have been.................
> I know a lot of people who bring their dogs to Pet Smart/PetCo to work on leash reactivity.
> 
> *See, I don't really want a DA dog coming anywhere near my dog when I take him into the store. My dog will not start any fights, but you can be very sure that if a dog attacks him he will react appropriatly, as I would expect him to.*
> ...


*Agree about the off lead dog, BUT also I don't think it iis very smart or thinking about the other customers and dogs to bring in a DA dog either.*


----------



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

codmaster said:


> *Agree about the off lead dog, BUT also I don't think it iis very smart or thinking about the other customers and dogs to bring in a DA dog either.*


Because, as I've stated before, people have to bring their dogs there for grooming and to use the vet. It's usually located in the back of the store. How do you expect the dog-aggressive dogs to get back there? Float? Not to mention, a lot of those dogs aren't so much dog agressive as leash reactive.

If I'm taking my dog to work on his leash reactivity at a Pet Smart/Pet Co, an off leash dog sets me back. But I'm unclear as to your point. Having a dog aggressive dog there or not, none of that justifies what that trainer did. Many, many people take their dogs their for training. It's up to the owners to keep their dogs under control at all times...which means a leash and not a flexi. Too many idiots out there don't know how to work one and they use it on a dog with no leash manners.

In a perfect world, nobody would come to a pet store and bring a dog unless the dog had perfect manners. But that isn't reality. And I'm not going to excuse behavior that can be dangerous.

If I'm walking my dog outside on a leash and he's dog aggressive, does that mean I'm in the wrong if an off-leash dog approaches and my dog bites it out of fear? The off-leash dog is in the wrong. It's my job to do everything I humanly can to protect my dog.

Why would I put my dog in a situation that could get it hurt? Which, fyi, is precisely what the trainer did. She'd have to be an idiot to not realize that dog-aggressive dogs come into that store for all sorts of reasons. If she doesn't, I'm pretty sure dog training isn't for her. So why is she putting her dog at risk?

And if it's against store policy, whether someone has a DA dog or not is irrelevant. The trainer is breaking the rules.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

IllinoisNative said:


> Because, as I've stated before, people have to bring their dogs there for grooming and to use the vet. It's usually located in the back of the store. How do you expect the dog-aggressive dogs to get back there? Float? *No, not float! I simply don't expect someone to bring a DA dog into a public place if they know their dog is dangerous to other dogs! You seem much more concerned about a friendly off lead dog than a potentially dangerous DA dog. Or maybe I misread what you have said?*
> 
> Not to mention, a lot of those dogs aren't so much dog agressive as leash reactive. *You mean that they react to their leash? I am talking about and referring to dogs that react negatvely and aggressivly to other dogs - whatever you may choose to call them.*
> 
> ...


IllinoisNative, As the saying goes, you should chill out a little. You appear to be thinking only of you, your dog and what you want to do - might want to consider the rest of the people and their dogs.


----------



## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

If a dog is on a leash and is under control then it doesnt matter what that dog is or isnt. Key word, under control! And unless someone has a dog that has done something so horrible that the law or whatever has told them to keep there dog out of public, they have JUST as much right to be there as the next person.

We all take chances when we go out for walks and into unknown places where there may or may not be a loose dog. But when you walk into a place where its expected dogs to be leashed, then the problem lies with the person who wont leash up there dog. 

NOT any other dog, or person. 

I wonder how many times you've come across a DA dog that was well under control. It is not something that is going to be found out unless A) the owner is an idiot and will not control/train there dog. B) A different owner is an idiot and just walks up to the dog with there dog without asking first, or C) A dog is, oh, I dont know...loose running around without the owner!


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

The person should definitely not have their dog off leash. Many people are terrified of dogs but still have other animals and need supplies for them. They can avoid a dog that's on a leash pretty easily, but an off-leash one? You can't avoid that unless you leave the store, and by then you've probably been scared to death by it.

Not to mention it's dangerous for the dog. I worked at petsmart, I've seen people lose the leash and have their dog bolt out the door and into the street many, many times.

There's also the people with other animals that might want to bring them into the store, like birds, reptiles, small animals or cats. If you can control your dog off-leash that's great, but what if you aren't paying attention? A german shepherd could easily jump up and snatch a bird right off of someone's shoulder. 

Plus not everyone who brings their dog in is doing it for the socialization. They could have brought their dog in there to fit a life-jacket, a harness, a collar, a muzzle, etc. Or they could be there for the vet/grooming services. If every dog is on a leash, it makes everything easier. At least the owner has a chance to say, "Sorry, my dog isn't friendly. They can't meet" When you have an off-leash dog and an owner that probably isn't watching their dog, what are you supposed to do? Kick the dog away? Yell out?

Where I worked, there was a big sign that said leashed and vaccinated pets welcome. It said nothing about friendly dogs, because it's unfair to the many dog aggressive dogs out there who need supplies/grooming/veterinary care. It's easy: if your dog is dog aggressive, keep it away from other dogs. But it's completely unfair to everyone when the owner has off-leash dogs approaching them and no way to keep their dog away from it.


----------



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

codmaster said:


> IllinoisNative, As the saying goes, you should chill out a little. You appear to be thinking only of you, your dog and what you want to do - might want to consider the rest of the people and their dogs.


First, you're quoting incorrectly which makes it awfully hard to respond to all of your points. Even DA dogs need to go to the vet/grooming salon. Either way, I can't believe you're arguing against DA dogs when they would be under control of their owners and the OFF leash dog would be the culprit. I can't believe you think a DA dog can't go to the vet or groomers since other dogs might be there. Give me a break. If you were concerned about others "rights," you wouldn't be arguing your point.

The responsibility is to have control of your dog. I HAVE THE RIGHT TO WALK MY DOG ANYWHERE UNACCOSTED even if my dog is DA!!! I shouldn't have to worry about idiots with their unleashed dogs. Period.

What is your point anyway? It's against the rules, it's irresponsible, and it's disrespectful. And I'm not thinking about just myself because my dogs happen to be good with everyone. I'm thinking of the rights of others to do what they have to do without having an off-leash dog get in their dogs face which can have unnecessary and severe consequences.

It's about respecting other people's rights and not about ONE trainer's right to have her dog unleashed in a place WHERE THAT ISN'T ALLOWED. This isn't a hard concept.:headbang:

As to the leash reactivity, it comes across as DA. Does it matter the cause if the dog is uncomfortable? The result is the same.

I'm done debating you since you don't really appear to get it and I can't function at that level.


----------



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> Where I worked, there was a big sign that said leashed and vaccinated pets welcome*. It said nothing about friendly dogs, because it's unfair to the many dog aggressive dogs out there who need supplies/grooming/veterinary care.* It's easy: if your dog is dog aggressive, keep it away from other dogs. But it's completely unfair to everyone when the owner has off-leash dogs approaching them and no way to keep their dog away from it.


Beautifully put!!!:thumbup: If DA dogs can't get vet care, grooming, socialization, how are they supposed to get better? Even DA dogs can behave but they shouldn't be in the position of having an irresponsible person having an off-leash dog set back their training.

What you said is the responsible, courteous thing to do...that is if one was thinking about other people and not of themselves.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

What if you are not paying attention with your leashed dog? Can't go as far, perhaps, but could still wander up to another dog!

Unless it is coming in for a vet or grooming or something similar, a DA dog has no business being brought into a public store. Too dangerous to my dog!


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Why do some folks automatically assume that if a dog is off leash, it is going to go running up to every other dog? 

Many dogs, some GSD's esp. that I know, could be off leash (IF that were permitted) and would totally ignore all other dogs anyway.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

The main point is the woman is a dog trainer and should know better, that since she is in a public store she should have followed the rules and kept her dog leashed and set an example.


----------



## HMV (May 17, 2010)

The law in Germany is very clear on this subject. 

If the dog is off leash the owner will be given an on the spot fine.

If 2 dogs get in to a fight one on leash and one off leash the owner of the off leash dog is liable to be sued. Regardless of which dog started it.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

HMV said:


> The law in Germany is very clear on this subject.
> 
> If the dog is off leash the owner will be given an on the spot fine.
> 
> If 2 dogs get in to a fight one on leash and one off leash the owner of the off leash dog is liable to be sued. Regardless of which dog started it.


They are strict.lol


----------



## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> The main point is the woman is a dog trainer and should know better, that since she is in a public store she should have followed the rules and kept her dog leashed and set an example.


 
specifically a PETSMART dog trainer....nooooot a big fan of them.


----------

