# We are so proud of our puppy



## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

Our mailbox is attached to the front of our house right outside the door. The mailman came early today when we were on the front porch with our 11 week old puppy Xena. When the mailman walked up, she reacted by loudly barking. She didn't try to lunge, but she wasn't planning on letting the mailman approach the mailbox until we pulled her back (and gave her lots of praise). Now if only we could get her to run to the door and bark when she's inside and someone knocks lol.


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## JakodaCD OA

honestly, and I don't mean to sound harsh, but at 11 weeks old, she was most likely barking out of fear/lack of confidence..

What did the mailman do? Did he try to make friends with her? Did she warm up to him?

Honestly this isn't something I'd be "proud" of. In a few months, that little furball is gonna be alot bigger and if she ends up nailing the mailman, well the dog will pay for it in the end

Just my opinion


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## *Lisa*

Like Diane, I wouldn't be encouraging this or be proud of her behaving this way. Sadly this behaviour will likely extend itself into other things if you're praising it. She'll bark at approaching people on walks, in the park, etc. But, I'm of the belief that a dog is for my enjoyment and to be a member of my family, not for my protection.

Our puppy is reactive to people and we view it as a negative. While barking when someone knocks/rings the doorbell isn't a bad thing, and I'm okay with a bark or two from behind the door, but barking at approaching people, especially if I'm right is not acceptable. We don't want our dog labelled as aggressive and are doing everything we can to stop this behaviour.


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## Emoore

Oh no. . . I'm sorry to hear that. Sounds like you've got a reactive-aggressive or fear-aggressive pup. Protective instincts don't show up until much later; what you're looking at right now is the equivalent of a 2- or 3-year old child lashing out and attacking guests. With a human child you might suspect abuse or mental problems. With German Shepherds it's nearly always nerves.

Hopefully with socialization and training you can overcome the issue.


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## Freestep

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> she wasn't planning on letting the mailman approach the mailbox until we pulled her back (and gave her lots of praise).


Your puppy was afraid of the mailman and by praising this behavior, you are teaching her that it's okay to act aggressive when she is afraid. This is not good. At her age, everyone should be her friend; she should not have to be put into a position where she's expected to be a "protector". Right now, you need to protect her, not the other way round. Get her enrolled in a puppy socialization class as soon as you can, and in the meantime, encourage her to be FRIENDS with the mailman, and everyone she comes across. Your mailman will surely appreciate it.


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## Chance&Reno

I don't understand why you would want to encourage fear reactions. There is a huge difference between barking out of fear and barking to alert. At her age, this isn't a good sign for her nerves. 

You definitely need to socialize her with strangers and encourage her to be polite. Believe me when I tell you, the thing you want will happen in time and comes from being confident and well-adjusted. What you are encouraging is a poweder keg.

Good luck.


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## chelle

I was once told all of the same things said to you above and more when my pup at about the same age did similar.

They were right and I spent months on socializing extensively to discourage this behavior and encourage neutral behavior. It was a ton of work and I shouldn't say "was" because it is ongoing. Drastically improved, but ongoing.

Just think when that pup is 60+ lbs barking (not a puppy bark, a big dog bark) at someone as insignificant as the mailman and possibly worse - lunging, jumping - you'll wish you hadn't encouraged it. 

Trust me, you don't want this!


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## onyx'girl

Neither does the mailman!
He really should be your dogs friend, especially when he visits so often. 
You may end up with broken windows scratched woodwork, broken blinds/curtains if you allow this to continue.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

Freestep said:


> Your puppy was afraid of the mailman and by praising this behavior, you are teaching her that it's okay to act aggressive when she is afraid. This is not good. At her age, everyone should be her friend; she should not have to be put into a position where she's expected to be a "protector". Right now, you need to protect her, not the other way round. Get her enrolled in a puppy socialization class as soon as you can, and in the meantime, encourage her to be FRIENDS with the mailman, and everyone she comes across. Your mailman will surely appreciate it.


We didn't deliberately put her in that position. It just happened. After we pulled her back and praised her, the mailman petted her and she licked his hand. As for socializing, she's the center of attention at our local pet store. On our last visit, she barked at the pet store worker approaching her but it was an excited bark because her tail was wagging. When an object scares her (like our hairdryer did), she barks and backs up, then walks forward to investigate. I don't want her to immediately trust every stranger the moment she sees them. If I was looking for what my ex used to call a "people people pet me pet me dog" I would've gotten a different breed. Of course I'm not expecting her to guard our property right now. She's just a baby. But I certainly don't want to discourage any developing instincts.


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## Emoore

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> I don't want her to immediately trust every stranger the moment she sees them. If I was looking for what my ex used to call a "people people pet me pet me dog" I would've gotten a different breed. Of course I'm not expecting her to guard our property right now. She's just a baby. But I certainly don't want to discourage any developing instincts.


Here's the thing about German Shepherds and protective instincts. 

If you socialize them as puppies and have them learn to get along with all different types of people, they will learn that "good" people come in all shapes and sizes and colors. They will learn to judge a "bad" person not by skin color, funny hat shape, body size, physical handicap, etc; but by that person's movement, posture, intent, scent of fear and adrenaline, etc. 

On the other hand, if you don't socialize your puppy and have them learn to get along with all types of people, they will learn that only their type of people (skin color, dress, mannerisms, physical handicap or lack thereof, etc) are "good" and that people who aren't like that are scary and something to be suspicious of. 

The "people people I love you please pet me" dog. . . well, like you said that's a different breed. Most GSDs aren't like that at _maturity_, they tend to err on the side of caution. If they are like that it's poor breeding and there's not really much you can do about that. 

What people are trying to tell you is that at this age, there are no developing protective instincts there is fear and self-preservation because she thinks the world is a scary place and she can't trust you to take care of her, or there is innocence and trust. Pick which one you want her to have at this age. The protective instinct will come or it won't based on her genetics.


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## doggiedad

i know you want a protective dog but at 11 weeks i think
your dog should be friendly to all and no nervous barking.
protection comes with training and age. you might want to 
discourage a lot of developing instincts (whatever they are).



Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> We didn't deliberately put her in that position. It just happened. After we pulled her back and praised her, the mailman petted her and she licked his hand. As for socializing, she's the center of attention at our local pet store. On our last visit, she barked at the pet store worker approaching her but it was an excited bark because her tail was wagging. When an object scares her (like our hairdryer did), she barks and backs up, then walks forward to investigate. I don't want her to immediately trust every stranger the moment she sees them. If I was looking for what my ex used to call a "people people pet me pet me dog" I would've gotten a different breed. Of course I'm not expecting her to guard our property right now. She's just a baby.
> 
> >>>> But I certainly don't want to discourage any developing instincts.<<<<


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## onyx'girl

A dog that has confidence will be discerning to threat, and not just willy nilly react whenever someone approaches. THAT is what you want in your pup! 
A confident pup will watch silently, not back up. After maturity a confident dog will know when it is appropriate to bark and when to chill. Pups don't know this and a pup will bark first/think later. Lower thresholds are going to be reactive, so you need to be certain you aren't encouraging it.
She is just a baby and because she is barking, it has to do with insecurity, not protective instinct(well, she's protecting herself from her fear)
Do not encourage that, but help her build confidence. You are confused with her behavior, she is not showing protection instinct at this age.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

What age do they start showing protective instincts so we'll know when we should start encouraging her again?


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## Emoore

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> What age do they start showing protective instincts so we'll know when we should start encouraging her again?


Adolescence to adulthood. And only when there is a legitimate threat. She shouldn't be encouraged to "protect" you from people who aren't a threat.


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## llombardo

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> We didn't deliberately put her in that position. It just happened. After we pulled her back and praised her, the mailman petted her and she licked his hand. As for socializing, she's the center of attention at our local pet store. On our last visit, she barked at the pet store worker approaching her but it was an excited bark because her tail was wagging. When an object scares her (like our hairdryer did), she barks and backs up, then walks forward to investigate. I don't want her to immediately trust every stranger the moment she sees them. If I was looking for what my ex used to call a "people people pet me pet me dog" I would've gotten a different breed. Of course I'm not expecting her to guard our property right now. She's just a baby. But I certainly don't want to discourage any developing instincts.


This(protective instincts) is something that comes with the breed IMO and believe me when I say as she gets older not to many people are interested in petting a GSD, yes they might talk to you about them, but I have had people walk the other way when they see my dog and she is only 7 months. Usually its kids that want to pet her, but I can count on one hand how many "strangers" have asked to pet her. Mine doesn't bark too often, but she watches everything and silently observes. She has barked at a couple different people and even if I personally don't trust those people, I still tell her to leave it or watch me. I don't need a dog lunging, barking, and pulling me down the street and neither do you when they get to be 60 pounds plus. Most dogs know the difference between good and bad and they can sense it, shepherds probably are just a little better at it Get her socialized with other dogs and people and you will have the dog you are looking for.


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## Castlemaid

And quite honestly, if she is already showing a fearful reaction at 11 weeks, you have your work cut out for you to make sure she is well socialized and self-confident. Protection comes from a place of quiet inner confidence, and that is what you should be encouraging and developing at this age. She will never grow up to be a confident dog if she is un-confident and fearful puppy, so show her that the world is a wonderful place, full of good people, and that she has no reason to fear because Mom and Dad are there to look out for her. 

Here is an older thread that discusses some of the differences between fear aggression and mature, confident protective behaviour: 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/156050-protective-fearful.html

And examples of how a solid, well-socialized GSD acts. If you want a well-rounded dog that is safe to take out in public, this is what you want to work towards:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/weekly-discussion-topics/153442-share-examples-good-nerve.html

As others have said, protectiveness will show itself as the dog matures, around a year to three years old, as some dogs mature slowly. If they have a protective instinct, it will come out. If not, pushing them to be something they are not can put a lot of psychological stress on them.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

Years ago, I had a dog I think many people on here would think was fear aggressive. She always barked when anyone knocked at the door or entered my property, but didn't bite. When away from home, she barked at people who approached when she was on leash. She even attacked my vacuum cleaner. Sounds bad, right? Now for the rest: She successfully tracked and found a lost kitten. She went from being calm and watchful to going after a guy that was removing my old refrigerator because she thought he was a thief trying to steal from me. I didn't realize it until I remembered the people I got her from telling me how she alerted them and then when let outside attacked someone breaking into their car. This dog was also very skilled at breaking up wrestling matches she thought were fights. First barked at the two people. If that didn't work, she grabbed someone's arm in her mouth using just enough pressure to keep them from pulling their arm out of her mouth and growled until they backed away from the other person, then she let go. Since her previous owners had kids, my guess is she broke up fights between siblings. She was the best adult dog I've ever had, even though she would've been considered "fear aggressive." To this day I wonder how she knew how to do what she did.


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## llombardo

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Years ago, I had a dog I think many people on here would think was fear aggressive. She always barked when anyone knocked at the door or entered my property, but didn't bite. When away from home, she barked at people who approached when she was on leash. She even attacked my vacuum cleaner. Sounds bad, right? Now for the rest: She successfully tracked and found a lost kitten. She went from being calm and watchful to going after a guy that was removing my old refrigerator because she thought he was a thief trying to steal from me. I didn't realize it until I remembered the people I got her from telling me how she alerted them and then when let outside attacked someone breaking into their car. This dog was also very skilled at breaking up wrestling matches she thought were fights. First barked at the two people. If that didn't work, she grabbed someone's arm in her mouth using just enough pressure to keep them from pulling their arm out of her mouth and growled until they backed away from the other person, then she let go. Since her previous owners had kids, my guess is she broke up fights between siblings. She was the best adult dog I've ever had, even though she would've been considered "fear aggressive." To this day I wonder how she knew how to do what she did.


My golden retriever hates fighting and will break up a fight. My samoyed mix was barking one day and it was pouring outside, so I didn't want to let her out, but she was very persistent, so we went out and she flew around the house to a hole that was flooded and started taking baby rabbits out of the hole-they surely would have drowned if she didn't rescue them. My dogs bark when there is someone at the door..the shepherd runs when she sees the vacuum and my golden follows me around so he can be vacuumed. I never taught my dogs any of these things, some dogs have it and some don't, but its not something I would hold against them or take away from them, with guidance, love, and socialization/training they become what they become. Dogs bark thats what they do, but there is a difference between barks--play, wanting to go outside, and I think I want to kill someone. I have no doubt in my mind that all of my dogs would protect me if given the opportunity and none of them were trained to do but they were all very socialized and had some kind of obedience since the day I got them


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## JakodaCD OA

While I obviously never saw your previous gsd in action, the behavior you describe to me, doesn't sound 'fear aggressive'..Barking when someone comes to the door or on the property, sounds like alerting.

Fear aggressive dogs don't necessarily 'bite' out of fear. They don't necessarily back off either. Cornered they will most likely bite. Your prev dog sounds like maybe she was quite discerning in when to react and when not to.

I sooooo agree with the other posters. You can never socialize these dogs enough, they don't have to "love" everyone, and an aloof dog (as they are supposed to be) won't. BUT they won't go attacking/acting aggressive to everyone either.

Your puppy is just that a puppy, it's good that you are taking her out and about and letting her get used to all the different things life has to offer.

Maturity can take time. I wouldn't 'encourage' bad behaviors/barking/ lunging at people. Encourage her to check all things out and be ok with them.

You don't want to end up with a ticking time bomb. You want to end up with a dog who can differentiate which may or may not happen, that you will know when she's mature.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

Funny, just yesterday a guy came to look at fixing our roof and I was so proud of my dog who after barking at first when he came to the house, realized my husband invited him in and then proceeded to grab his jolly ball to play with the guy. He even tried to climb the ladder behind him. This behavior makes me proud. 
We socialized like crazy and still do and yes my dog barks a lot when someone knocks on the door or comes on the property, but if they are welcome, they become a playmate.


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## NancyJ

I think the dog who goes one woof and you say "good dog quiet" and silently sits by your side watching the stranger is far more intimidating than one going off on everything. I think many criminals know the difference.


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## onyx'girl

A test with the SDA(Protection Alert~PA) is a 'friendly greeting' after the dog has been pressured by a 'bad guy' in a bite suit. 
The dog is alerted to bark at the threat as the man comes out of a blind yelling, charging and raising a whip or stick. The man charges the dog, but the dog isn't allowed to get close enough to bite. Then the man retreats and you tell your dog to quiet. The man then comes back out in a friendly, non-threatening manner and you have to greet in a friendly tone of voice,shake hands with the man, as the man comes in very close and the dog is supposed to control himself enough to not lunge or bite, stay in the sit position. Talk about control! 
This exercise shows how the dog can change drives within a minute and be able to see from their handler the difference between a threat and not. It shows the balance of the dogs nerves/temperament.


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## Emoore

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Years ago, I had a dog I think many people on here would think was fear aggressive. She always barked when anyone knocked at the door or entered my property, but didn't bite. When away from home, she barked at people who approached when she was on leash. She even attacked my vacuum cleaner. Sounds bad, right?


No, not at all. She sounds aloof and discerning.

I don't know a single dog that puts up with the evil vacuum cleaner.


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## Chance&Reno

My boy knew the difference as well. He would bark 3 times when someone knocked on the door. If I didn't make it to the door within those 3 barks, he would come and get me to show me someone was at the door. He would sit to the left of the door and wait for a response from me. When I opened the door and invited the person in, he would greet them, grab a toy and offer it up. If I opened the door and told the person "no thank you" (solicitors), he would stand and stare at the person as I closed the door. He would then watch them leave through the window. 

Someone came to our door looking for the previous owners. I guess they were having financial issues as the person at the door was looking to repo their car. When I told the guy that I wasn't the person he was looking for, he didn't believe me and became angry. When the guy started yelling at me, demanding ID, I told him if he didn't get off my property or I was going to call the police. When I went to shut the door, he put his foot in the door. I said to the guy "EXCUSE ME! THAT is against the law!" So I picked up my cell to call the police. Next thing I know, my Chance was standing at the opening of the door, growling and freaking outon the guy, attempting to bite his foot. I've only seen him like that one other time, that was the time I was attacked on the bike path. He was barking so loud, he was rattling the windows and the pictures on the wall. The guy took his foot out of the door, got into his truck and tried to hook my truck up and take it!!!! 

First of all, I have a truck. He was looking for an Acura sedan!!! I immediately leashed Chance and took him out the front door. I walked right up to the guy with my huge, 120lb GSD and told him to stop touching my vehicle or I was going to release THE DOG as he was tresspassing. I had already called the police and when they showed up, Chance was still freaking out. When the officers got out of their vehicle, he immediately calmed down, sat and started wagging his tail. 

I showed the cops my ID and registration and they told the guy to scram and he had the wrong address. What an JERK!

So, the ONE time I did need him to be a GSD, his instinct kicked in and he became a GSD. Other than that, he thought he was a Pomeranian.. HAHAHA

He was VERY social with people. I wanted him to be friendly unless the time came when he needed to not be friendly.

Encouraging barking and lunging at people is a bad thing for you and your dog. If she bites or scares the wrong person, you could be in for quite the battle. It's not fair to her that you encourage her fear behavior. She could become so stressed out that she starts to self mutilate and rip her hair out or chronically lick her paws until they are bloody because she doesn't want to be "that dog" you are forcing her to be.


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## JakodaCD OA

I so agree with Nancy.

Dodge, my big goofy dog. Who was very aloof, but watchful, people were more afraid/intimidated by him than my other dogs. Maybe they associated the color of the others with the "rin tin tin" dogs, while Dodge was a very black bicolor..Don't know.

Masi on the other hand, rarely barks at people coming here, watchful yes, will check you out , yes, and again, maybe it's the 'wolfie' dark sable color, people seem to be leery of her when there is no need to be here in my home

A 'bark' can go a long way in deterring someone, but a quiet watchful , aloof dog can make one wary as well


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## Freestep

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Years ago, I had a dog I think many people on here would think was fear aggressive. She always barked when anyone knocked at the door or entered my property, but didn't bite. When away from home, she barked at people who approached when she was on leash. She even attacked my vacuum cleaner. Sounds bad, right?


Well to me it doesn't sound ideal to have a dog barking at everyone while on a walk. Was she 11 weeks old when she did all this?

Please don't compare your 11 week old puppy to a mature dog, and stop pushing your puppy to be "protective" because your last dog was. Stop and think: what did you do with your last dog at a young age to make her "protective"? Or did it just sort of happen on its own?

I'm glad you let the mailman pet your pup, so she realized her fear was unfounded. I'm glad you're taking her out to the pet supply store and whatnot. Keep doing that. Let her meet people of all shapes, sizes, and colors, people with beards, people with hats and umbrellas, loud people, fat people, tall people, short people, children, people with walkers and wheelchairs, people lying down, people running, bicycles, skateboards, etc. etc. etc. Only by learning that people of all types are okay, will she learn discernment. You don't want your dog thinking mail carriers, repairmen, passers-by, etc. are potential threats. A dog with solid nerves that is well trained and socialized will be able to tell the difference between a welcome guest like the mailman, and a robber about to break in through your front door. If your dog barks indiscriminately at everyone who comes near, how do YOU know what's a real threat and what isn't? "Oh that dog is barking again, it's probably nothing".

The fact is, you don't have to do anything to *encourage* protective behavior. It will come on its own, with time and maturity. By encouraging any type of defensive aggression in a puppy, you're playing with fire. Some dogs don't come into protective behavior until they are 2 years old, or even later. Protective behavior in a young dog may seem desireable, until it becomes a pain in the butt. Ask anyone who has a fear-aggressive, reactive GSD and they'll tell you.

The best thing you can do to encourage protective behavior? Socialize heavily while she is young and train in obedience. Once she is bonded to you, trusts you, and feels she has nothing to fear, you will have a strong, courageous companion.


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## RubyTuesday

Excellent post, Freestep. Too often people subconsciously encourage inappropriate aggression &/or fearfulness without intending to. So often people themselves are nervous, frightened & feel vaguely threatened by the big scary crime riddled world at large. Most dogs, even fairly insensitive dogs, will easily detect that & act according to their age, experience & temperament. 

I live in a 'bad' neighborhood. Like most 'bad' neighborhoods, most of the people living here are decent people & very few of those that aren't represent a threat to me. I select my dogs carefully, especially since there are so many small children living nearby, & then socialize & train as you suggested. This yields extremely pleasant & reliable canine family members who are themselves well protected. Inappropriately aggressive dogs in a crowded urban environment all too often get themselves into serious trouble while the distraught owners wonder what went wrong.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

She did it again. Someone came over to mow the lawn and when she saw them, she started barking. The way my husband described it, once he petted her and told her it was ok the barking stopped and she instantly became a friendly puppy ready to socialize. Considering everyone's replies and the fact she's only 11 weeks old, is it possible we're misinterpreting what are really playful barks? I asked my husband if her tail was wagging when she started barking and he said from what he saw she was holding it stiff, although he wasn't watching her tail the entire time. What does it mean if a German Shepherd puppy has a stiff tail when barking? Does that mean it's a playful bark?


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## msvette2u

She's afraid, at first.
Then relaxes when you guys tell her "it's okay".


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## meldleistikow

Not sure if this link will work, but I saw it on Facebook and it is a good chart of some of the different body languages of dogs. There are more of these charts, like how to greet dogs and how dogs and kids should interact.

Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More

This chart shows different tail positions of dogs and what they mean.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

Thanks meldleistikow. That's some great info.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

msvette2u said:


> She's afraid, at first.
> Then relaxes when you guys tell her "it's okay".


I definitely don't want her to grow up uncontrollably aggressive. Our vet thinks she's going to grow to be much larger than average. But I do like the idea of her being cautious of strangers until I let her know it's okay. I guess I feel like a parent that wants her child to know about stranger danger. There are alot of thefts in my area and I don't want someone trying to steal her.


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## Freestep

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> I definitely don't want her to grow up uncontrollably aggressive. Our vet thinks she's going to grow to be much larger than average. But I do like the idea of her being cautious of strangers until I let her know it's okay. I guess I feel like a parent that wants her child to know about stranger danger. There are alot of thefts in my area and I don't want someone trying to steal her.


If someone is going to steal your puppy, they're going to do so whether she's cautious of them or not. It's your job to protect her; don't expect an 11 week old puppy to protect or defend herself. It's your job, not hers, to be cautious of strangers if need be; an 11 week old pup shouldn't be tasked with those kinds of decisions. Her life should be happy, carefree and full of wonderful, friendly people right now. As she matures, learns discernment, and becomes a confident adult, she will assume strangers are innocent until proven guilty--you don't want it the other way around.


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## msvette2u

Then keep her inside when not supervised. Don't let her hang out out there unsupervised.
Anyone could steal her now as she's not being aggressive, she's frightened. All they'd have to do is keep advancing despite her barking and she'll tuck tail and run.

Do not pat, pet, or encourage her - at all - when she's displaying the fear reactions.

Others may have better suggestions but if she was mine and doing that I'd give her a "that's enough!" and ignore her until she settled down, and showed signs of being comfortable. By patting, petting, saying "it's okay", you're unwittingly encouraging the barking and fear.


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## jennyp

JakodaCD OA said:


> I so agree with Nancy.
> 
> Dodge, my big goofy dog. Who was very aloof, but watchful, people were more afraid/intimidated by him than my other dogs. Maybe they associated the color of the others with the "rin tin tin" dogs, while Dodge was a very black bicolor..Don't know.
> 
> Masi on the other hand, rarely barks at people coming here, watchful yes, will check you out , yes, and again, maybe it's the 'wolfie' dark sable color, people seem to be leery of her when there is no need to be here in my home
> 
> A 'bark' can go a long way in deterring someone, but a quiet watchful , aloof dog can make one wary as well


Just yesterday my sister was in the yard putting trash next to the driveway for Bulk Pick Up. She had her Rottweiler with her and was returning to the house when a man drove up to her driveway to rummage through her trash. When the guy got out of his car Layda (the dog) walked halfway down the driveway, stopped and just stared at him. That was enough to send the guy running back to his car!


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## Castlemaid

> When the guy got out of his car Layda (the dog) walked halfway down the driveway, stopped and just stared at him.


And that is a good example of true protectiveness! A quiet confidence, a sense of inner invincibility. Watching quietly, ready to spring in action if required. No wasting mental and physical energy by going bonkers.


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