# Possible wolves stalking my shepherds!!



## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Hi everyone, It's been awhile since I've posted but we had a situation yesterday that gave us a uneasy feeling!

Here goes:
Last night around 11pm I let both Max and Molly out for there business and when I opened the door both dogs bolted barking and growling. Both Max and Molly headed towards the bush then I called them back. They came back right away but were losing it, barking and growling in the direction they ran!. Then I noticed at the end of our driveway there was a huge dog standing there waiting so I called Max and Molly in. I got both my dogs in the house and yelled at my wife to come out and see this the big dog(I'm thinking was a wolf ) stood there then ran down out of site! This morning I decided to go see the tracks in the snow, there was huge prints leading to a bunch of other prints down by the water then they all headed into the bush! I'm kinda freeked out I'm thinking the wolf was luring my dogs!!!:frown2:
will wolves actually hunt dogs


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

I have pics of all the foot prints and will post shortly


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Miss Molly May said:


> I have pics of all the foot prints and will post shortly


You could install a motion detecting camera to see what happens when you are not around. It is very interesting to find out about nightly visitors.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Do you know if there are any wolf groups/sanctuaries in your area? They might have info on deterring these guys (if they are wolves).


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)




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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

wolfy dog said:


> You could install a motion detecting camera to see what happens when you are not around. It is very interesting to find out about nightly visitors.


we are going tonight to pick up some sensor lights and a game camera!


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

That's scary. Whether its wolves or feral dogs(we have the feral dogs)


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Dotbat215 said:


> Do you know if there are any wolf groups/sanctuaries in your area? They might have info on deterring these guys (if they are wolves).


I don't think there is any group around that I can think of!
But will look into it for sure


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> That's scary. Whether its wolves or feral dogs(we have the feral dogs)


It is scary I don't want any harm to my dogs! We live in the bush don't think it's feral dogs?
The big dog (i'm thinking it was a wolf) was huge and sat at the end of our driveway like it wanted to be seen to get my shepherd to chase it!


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Do you have a fence?

Predators don't usually eat other predators, they don't make for a good meal, but dogs being predators could be considered competition for food.

Living in heavily forested areas means this will be a constant risk, I suggest getting a fence if you don't already have one. You can't always watch your dogs so an area for safe potty would be a good idea.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Dracovich said:


> Do you have a fence?
> 
> Predators don't usually eat other predators, they don't make for a good meal, but dogs being predators could be considered competition for food.
> 
> Living in heavily forested areas means this will be a constant risk, I suggest getting a fence if you don't already have one. You can't always watch your dogs so an area for safe potty would be a good idea.


No we have no fence we have acreage and both Max and Molly are well trained to stay in around our house. They do not spend any time outside alone. Thery are by my side all the time except for there late night business(last bathroom of the day) when we let them out and I stand on the porch! But I will be a little more diligent in the late evenings now! As of tonight there will be montion lights installed and I will be taking a good look outside before letting them out for sure!


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I don't see why they wouldn't try to lure your dogs. Urban Coyotes are plucking little dogs out of yards all the time. Spring is here so might be mating season for wolves.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

I think reaching out to a wolf sanctuary and or wildlife ranger might help you. Wolves have been reported in new places so you are probably right.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/link-suggestion/wpcd_2008-09_augmented/wp/g/Gray_Wolf.htm


In some areas, dogs are a major food source for wolves. Reports from Croatia indicate that dogs are killed more frequently than sheep. Wolves in Russia apparently limit feral dog populations. In Wisconsin, more compensation has been paid for dog losses than livestock. *Some wolf pairs have been reported to predate on dogs by having one wolf lure the dog out into heavy brush where the second animal waits in ambush. In some instances, wolves have displayed an uncharacteristic fearlessness of humans and buildings when attacking dogs*, to an extent where they have to be beaten off or killed. Specially bred Livestock guardian dogs have been used to repell wolves from pastures, though their primary function has more to do with intimidating the wolves rather than fighting them.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

GatorBytes said:


> https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/link-suggestion/wpcd_2008-09_augmented/wp/g/Gray_Wolf.htm
> 
> 
> In some areas, dogs are a major food source for wolves. Reports from Croatia indicate that dogs are killed more frequently than sheep. Wolves in Russia apparently limit feral dog populations. In Wisconsin, more compensation has been paid for dog losses than livestock. *Some wolf pairs have been reported to predate on dogs by having one wolf lure the dog out into heavy brush where the second animal waits in ambush. In some instances, wolves have displayed an uncharacteristic fearlessness of humans and buildings when attacking dogs*, to an extent where they have to be beaten off or killed. Specially bred Livestock guardian dogs have been used to repell wolves from pastures, though their primary function has more to do with intimidating the wolves rather than fighting them.


None if this has been studied, it's all based off of owners reporting their dogs were killed by wolves or coyotes. In most cases the carcass was left in it's entirety, meaning they did not eat it, hence why they know it's a dog. When coyotes and wolves eat they don't leave much of anything behind, barely any bones. You realize that would essentially be cannibalism, right? smh LOL


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## crazyontrt (Jul 27, 2004)

What area of northern ontario are you in? There is the Wild at Heart in Sudbury. They may have some experience/suggestions. We have coyotes in our neighbourhood, you can hear them in the early morning trying to lure animals.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

If it was a wolf or a feral dog it was probably lured to your home by smell(s) and looking for an opportunistic meal. My opinion (such as it is) would be to set up a couple flood lights on a motion detector. I don't think bright lights will scare them off but it may deter anything or anyone from wandering into your immediate yard. Additionally that could give you a better advantage to see what's out there before letting the dogs do there thing. You may want to look into something like this. https://www.margosupplies.com/usa/bangers They made a pretty good racket watch the video at the bottom of the page..


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> None if this has been studied, it's all based off of owners reporting their dogs were killed by wolves or coyotes. In most cases the carcass was left in it's entirety, meaning they did not eat it, hence why they know it's a dog. When coyotes and wolves eat they don't leave much of anything behind, barely any bones. You realize that would essentially be cannibalism, right? smh LOL


Cannibalism is not uncommon in wolves. 

It's a Wolf-Eat-Wolf World in the Wilds of Alaska


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

voodoolamb said:


> Cannibalism is not uncommon in wolves.
> 
> It's a Wolf-Eat-Wolf World in the Wilds of Alaska


Thank you for posting facts vs just an assumed opinion.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> Cannibalism is not uncommon in wolves.
> 
> It's a Wolf-Eat-Wolf World in the Wilds of Alaska


I'm not seeing any authors or references to that information. There's websites that 'back up' every theory, I usually prefer seeing something more stable.

Your own website contradicts you, however 

*biologists have a hard time determining how some wolves die because "by the time we get to the carcass, there's not enough left to figure out how they died," he said*

Thank you for backing me up.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Another quote here from your ever so reliable website:

*It's all about territory.*

The only references to cannibalism is in already dead or trapped pack mates, otherwise during pack fights they are torn to shreds, not eaten.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Hi thank you all for your responses. We are hoping this was a isolated incident ! For precautions we are picking up a bunch of motion light and are going to light the yard up like a Christmas tree!!! This way when any animal walk through out front yard or our doggies are out there we will have a clear view of what is going on... I am not exactly sure what the intentions where but my dogs did chase it out and either it came back and stood at the end of my driveway or it was a second one.... all the tracks on the side of my property proved that it wasn't alone


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> I'm not seeing any authors or references to that information. There's websites that 'back up' every theory, I usually prefer seeing something more stable.
> 
> Your own website contradicts you, however
> 
> ...


some
səm/Submit
determiner
1.
an unspecified amount or number of.
"I made some money running errands"
2.
used to refer to someone or something that is unknown or unspecified.
"she married some newspaper magnate twice her age"
pronoun
1.
an unspecified number or amount of people or things.
"here are some of our suggestions"
2.
at least a small amount or number of people or things

Yes, SOME of the deceased wolves are far too decayed to determine cause of death. However there are still plenty that the cause of death which could be determined. 

I'm sorry you don't find the findings of biologist Craig Gardner from Alaska's department of Fish and Game to be credible. Or the well respected, published, biologist Tim Meier. Both of whom were quoted in that piece. 

Maybe photographic evidence would be better..






Now this isn't anything against wolves. They are opportunistic carnivores and scavengers. No sense in leaving good meat uneaten when you don't know when your next meal is coming from. Regardless of the frequency that wolves participate in cannibalism, there are MANY first hand accounts and official reports of wolves attacking dogs. Both out of predatory instincts and territorial ones. Which, I am sure is all that the OP cares about, so that they can find a way to keep their dogs safe.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> Another quote here from your ever so reliable website:
> 
> *It's all about territory.*
> 
> The only references to cannibalism is in already dead or trapped pack mates, otherwise during pack fights they are torn to shreds, not eaten.


Official DNR reports on wolf attacks on dogs including a lovely picture of a half eaten dog

Flood of Pet Dogs Killed by Wolves in Wisconsin Continues


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> some
> səm/Submit
> determiner
> 1.
> ...


That's fine and dandy, but there's no author so credibility is indeterminable.

Sure, lets say plenty can be determined, but that's not what your article states. Sorry, but your reference doesn't back you up. Wolves don't kill other wolves/carnivores for food, if they did we would have a hard time even knowing what the dead animal is.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> That's fine and dandy, but there's no author so credibility is indeterminable.
> 
> Sure, lets say plenty can be determined, but that's not what your article states. Sorry, but your reference doesn't back you up. Wolves don't kill other wolves/carnivores for food, if they did we would have a hard time even knowing what the dead animal is.


So does anyone have any evidence at all that would be sufficient for Doubting Thomas over here? A proverbial spear wound in the side?


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> Official DNR reports on wolf attacks on dogs including a lovely picture of a half eaten dog
> 
> Flood of Pet Dogs Killed by Wolves in Wisconsin Continues


Killed. not eaten.

I clearly stated that dogs being carnivores makes them competition, predators don't like competition.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Dracovich said:


> Killed. not eaten.
> 
> I clearly stated that dogs being carnivores makes them competition, predators don't like competition.



Which is why they could be a threat to the OP's dogs.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

GatorBytes said:


> Which is why they could be a threat to the OP's dogs.


I did not say they weren't, in fact I said it will be a constant risk, get a fence. Good job putting words in my mouth.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> That's fine and dandy, but there's no author so credibility is indeterminable.
> 
> Sure, lets say plenty can be determined, but that's not what your article states. Sorry, but your reference doesn't back you up. Wolves don't kill other wolves/carnivores for food, if they did we would have a hard time even knowing what the dead animal is.


Wolves have been known to hunt and eat coyotes (carnivores!)


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> Wolves have been known to hunt and eat coyotes (carnivores!)


Thanks for your personal opinion.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> So does anyone have any evidence at all that would be sufficient for Doubting Thomas over here? A proverbial spear wound in the side?


Like the picture on the wolf attacks on dogs report showing large amounts of missing flesh from the dog's carcass? LOL


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Dracovich said:


> Killed. not eaten.
> 
> I clearly stated that dogs being carnivores makes them competition, predators don't like competition.





GatorBytes said:


> Which is why they could be a threat to the OP's dogs.





Dracovich said:


> I did not say they weren't, in fact I said it will be a constant risk, get a fence. *Good job putting words in my mouth*.



I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was trying to redirect the thread back to the OP :wink2:
"Trying" being the operative word. Sheesh


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> Thanks for your personal opinion.


Nope. It's the opinion of Glacier National Park Services too!

https://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/education/upload/Who eats who chart.pdf


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Wolves view domestic dogs as competitors or territorial intruders and have attacked and killed them, especially in remote areas. 
Owners of dogs need to be aware of the potential risk to their dogs if they are in wolf habitat, especially when guarding or herding livestock, hunting, accompanying hikers, or running at large. 
Wolf Interactions With Humans and Domestic Pets | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Dracovich said:


> Predators don't *usually* eat other predators


There's a quote from me, should I be petty and define the word 'usually'? Carnivores simply are not a normal source of food for other carnivores, hence why raw fed dogs are not fed cougar, bear, coyote etc, and should not be. A dog with missing meat means little, when carnivores eat they leave little to waste. It's not called eating when your food is still left on your plate.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

GatorBytes said:


> Wolves view domestic dogs as competitors or territorial intruders and have attacked and killed them, especially in remote areas.
> Owners of dogs need to be aware of the potential risk to their dogs if they are in wolf habitat, especially when guarding or herding livestock, hunting, accompanying hikers, or running at large.
> Wolf Interactions With Humans and Domestic Pets | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife


And don't think your yard is safe either if you live in wolf country. Wolves have been known to come in and take dogs.  Best not to leave your pets unsupervised.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

In other words, OP, live in fear everywhere is doom there's no hope for safety LOL (just teasing.)

I've never had a fence less than 6 feet, wolves never entered the property. A chain link fence with a properly fastened bottom will do the trick.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

My dogs have never cared what kind of meat I put in their bowls. If it's meat they eat it. It could be 
tyrannosaurus, wolf, beef, or mice meat they're gonna eat it. 
OP it will be interesting to see what your cameras show. Hopefully your dogs stay safe regardless of why whatever is out there. . But please post more info as you get it.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Tested that theory, none of my dogs would eat bear.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

cdwoodcox said:


> My dogs have never cared what kind of meat I put in their bowls. If it's meat they eat it. It could be
> tyrannosaurus, wolf, beef, or mice meat they're gonna eat it.
> OP it will be interesting to see what your cameras show. Hopefully your dogs stay safe regardless of why whatever is out there. . But please post more info as you get it.


Yep. I can see that. 

Feeding sled dogs the meat from other dogs was a tactic used on the early polar expeditions. Start with a full team and full supplies, as the journey wears on, and the load lightens, they could use some of the dogs to feed the rest of the team (and the men). I believe that Amundsen used this tactic.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

I'll keep you posted ? wow is it just me or did this thread get way out of control...lol like I said I hope this was a isolated incendant.. motion spot lights are going up first this tomorrow morning (I just picked up 3 and a game cam just to see what's going on at night. I do feed raw and have been feeding it outside during the winter but I'm careful not to leave anything out.. 
I love animals and nature but if dog are in any immediate danger the riffle will have to come out


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

voodoolamb said:


> Yep. I can see that.
> 
> Feeding sled dogs the meat from other dogs was a tactic used on the early polar expeditions. Start with a full team and full supplies, as the journey wears on, and the load lightens, they could use some of the dogs to feed the rest of the team (and the men). I believe that Amundsen used this tactic.


Shoot get me in the right situation and I'm eating human. Like that plane crash movie.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

I have fed my dogs bears numerous times


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> Tested that theory, none of my dogs would eat bear.


Do you have all the answers? Not to be a jerk, but you seriously argue like you know everything. 
Wolves will come over a 6 foot fence. Wolves will eat other carnivores. Coyote's, foxes, dogs, cats, etc. They are oppotunistic. Your experience is your experience.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

cdwoodcox said:


> Shoot get me in the right situation and I'm eating human. Like that plane crash movie.


Movie based on a true life story.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

I need popcorn....lol


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> Carnivores simply are not a normal source of food for other carnivores


Umm. No. 

Tertiary consumers. 

Polar bears almost exclusively eat other carnivores. Apex predators are known to take smaller carnivores when the opportunity arises. Look at all the predators a fox has. Including...wait for it... WOLVES (src Wolves: Behaviour, Ecology and Conservation. Mech. Page 269)



> A dog with missing meat means little, when carnivores eat they leave little to waste. It's not called eating when your food is still left on your plate.


Surplus killing. Common in many predatory species. 

I think there might have been a little bit of waste after a single wolf pack took down 19 elk in a single night...

Wolf Pack Slaughters 19 Elk in Rare 'Surplus Killing'


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Orcas eat other carnivores too. And cetaceans will kill for reasons other than eating.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Lol they are animals not the boogie man, smh :'D


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> Lol they are animals not the boogie man, smh :'D


And no one has said that they are. I love wolves.

But i take issue with wildly inaccurate statements like: 

"Carnivores simply are not a normal source of food for other carnivores"


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Thanks for your opinion, but considering the main source of food for predators is prey (hence the names), that makes predators eating predators not normal. Take population into consideration as well, there's far more prey so naturally a predator will go for the easier source of which is higher in numbers. 

Yes, predators will kill other predators, I never said that does not happen, but predators prey upon prey for the most part making prey their normal source of food, and other predators not their normal source of food.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I don't really care. But one animals prey is another animals predator. And one animals predator is another animals prey. Food chain.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> Thanks for your opinion, but considering the main source of food for predators is prey (hence the names), that makes predators eating predators not normal. Take population into consideration as well, there's far more prey so naturally a predator will go for the easier source of which is higher in numbers.
> 
> Yes, predators will kill other predators, I never said that does not happen, but predators prey upon prey for the most part making prey their normal source of food, and other predators not their normal source of food.


You have a highly simplified understanding of the workings of the food web. It is not a simple plant < prey < predator type of equation. You are completely disregarding the trophic levels. Some predators are common prey for larger predators.

seed < mouse < stoat < eagle

phytoplankton < zooplankton < little fish < big fish < seal < polar bear

grass < locus < shrew < snake < honey badger

There are literally thousands and thousands of observations by qualified scientists of predators hunting and consuming other predators on a regular basis. Some predators almost exclusively feed on other predators. Most predators have been known to consume other predators atleast on occasion. 

This is not an opinion. This is scientific fact.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

voodoolamb said:


> You have a highly simplified understanding of the workings of the food web. It is not a simple plant < prey < predator type of equation. You are completely disregarding the trophic levels. Some predators are common prey for larger predators.
> 
> seed < mouse < stoat < eagle
> 
> ...


Thank you for the food web lesson. I never knew that. What does this mean for the OP? I am concerned for her dogs.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> Thank you for the food web lesson. I never knew that. What does this mean for the OP? I am concerned for her dogs.


aww thanks! I spent a lot of money on my degree, which my job has nothing to do with, so i'm glad I was able to put those ecology courses to use LOL

For the OP, I'd say invest in a good fence, make sure to practice a bomb proof recall on the pups, and sit back and feel lucky to have had the opportunity to be so close to such an amazing predator and that raw bit of nature <3


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Lol all that arguing and putting words into my mouth to give the same advice I did. Thanks for backing me up.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

Okay can we just stop arguing already? I like a good fight but Jesus the facts have have already been presented. 

Wolves have been known for cannabalism. Wolves see dogs the same way they see rival wolves, coyotes, and foxes, as rivals, competition, rivals and a threat to their territory. They will sometimes chase off, other times they will kill and sometimes they will eat their rival.

And yes carnivores eat other carnivores. Watch your basic animal documentary to prove that. Or just see a post about me where I talk about my dog and the fact that he always wants to chase after cats to eat them.

There end of discussion. Hope everything goes well for the OP.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> Lol all that arguing and putting words into my mouth to give the same advice I did. Thanks for backing me up.


Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. It happens.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> Lol all that arguing and putting words into my mouth to give the same advice I did. Thanks for backing me up.


I never disagreed with your "advice" I simply disagreed with your inaccurate statements about predatory behavior and backed up why I disagreed with them. 

I'm interested on your "take" of predators that feed almost exclusively on other predators, like king cobras, polar bears, and orcas. Or of the small non apex predators, such as stoats, which frequently find themselves on the menu of larger predators. 

Because, once again, "Carnivores simply are not a normal source of food for other carnivores" which is a direct quote from you, not me putting words in your mouth.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> but predators prey upon prey for the most part making prey their normal source of food,



So what happens when a predator preys on predators?

You were wrong. More than once. All of this wriggling around and accusations of having words put in your mouth is pointless. 

Just accept that you weren't right this time. It Happens.

.... Also, do you really think we don't feed dogs cougars and bears because it's bad for them? Don't you think it might be, oh I don't know, that it's not feasible for a company to raise cougars and bears for dog food? I mean seriously.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

cdwoodcox said:


> My dogs have never cared what kind of meat I put in their bowls. If it's meat they eat it. It could be
> tyrannosaurus, wolf, beef, or mice meat they're gonna eat it.
> OP it will be interesting to see what your cameras show. Hopefully your dogs stay safe regardless of why whatever is out there. . But please post more info as you get it.


Cool, you found a T Rex to feed your dogs!?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Dracovich said:


> Lol they are animals not the boogie man, smh :'D


I don't think anyone here was vilifying wolves...I love and respect wildlife, maybe more than a lot of people. But I don't romanticize it either. It's not like there was no evidence here, OP had pretty good evidence that some wolves were casing their dogs. NO reason to think the dogs aren't in danger.

OP, if I were in your situation, I'd be taking my dogs to the bathroom on 6' leashes at night, close to the house, done and back in. I would doubt that a wolf would approach and attach a human and 2 GSDs all close together like that.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

OP, I would look into putting coyote rollers on top of a tall fence -- make it harder to climb if they get their front paws on top. I'd expect them to work about as effectively, though they may need to be a little more heavy duty. Fencing solutions around wolves are not all that easy because they dig, rip fences, and climb. This site has some info about keeping them in--which may be relevant to constructing fencing for keeping them OUT too:
Fencing Solutions

I would also talk to the local Game & Fish or Wildlife Dept. about what legal, humane hazing might be permitted in the area. This pack will probably live a lot longer if it develops a healthy fear of people and learns to avoid human settlements.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

When I was in Florida, there was some program where they would design and pay for a panther proof nightpen for small livestock if panther predation was a problem. I can't remember what organization did it, if it was Fish and Game or a Panther conservation org. I had a barn, but a friend of mine who didn't started losing her goats and they did come through with the pen.

I am sure that is because of how critically endangered panthers are, but definitely ask around with relevant groups and see if they will help or offer advise. I don't know if wolves are endangered in your area or not.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Cool, you found a T Rex to feed your dogs!?


I wish. Could you imagine the supply of meat you would get.


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## truckola (Nov 3, 2013)

This coyote made a big mistake. Little predators are just prey for bigger predators.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Thank you for the helpful ideas I did keep them on lead tonight with a fog horn in my pocket just in case. I will be keeping a close eye and watch for them. I am not sure if they would come back around or just keep Moving on?
Once I have my 3 montion spot lights installed I'll feel much better! I'm a pretty big guy but since yesterday I'm creeped out going outside tonight ... My wife is also freeked out! I don't think she will be going outside at night after seeing the size of the one that stood at the end of our driveway. If the come back around I will contact the mnr. Max and Molly are never out of our site we never let them out alone without one of us..


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

None the less, my advice to the OP is not to worry too much, dog's are almost always attacked only when left alone, so just keep an eye on your dogs. A small fenced yard is all you need for safe night time potty. You also have two dogs who will protect each other as best as they can and GSDs are often good in combat. Wild animals will always put survival first and in a flight or fight situation where they feel at high risk, they will often run. Many protection breeds have had that bred out of them and they can be extremely courageous and ignore danger, which can be threatening to wild animals. I think as two larger breeds they stand a good chance of scaring predators off.



voodoolamb said:


> And don't think your yard is safe either





voodoolamb said:


> For the OP, I'd say invest in a good fence





voodoolamb said:


> I never disagreed with your "advice"


I guess I'm getting mixed messages here.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Miss Molly May said:


> View attachment 413249
> 
> 
> View attachment 413257
> ...


Just curious no expert here but some of those tracks look like the Jack Rabbit tracks we get in the snow all the time. Do you have rabbits there?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

shepherdmom said:


> Just curious no expert here but some of those tracks look like the Jack Rabbit tracks we get in the snow all the time. Do you have rabbits there?


I don't think they have jack rabbits in Ontario.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

No jack rabbits. I walk right up to the tracks on my shoreline and they are definitely paw prints and allot of them then they lead out on to the ice and heads around my property


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

The pic of the single paw print was taken from the wolf at the end of my driveway


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> None the less, my advice to the OP is not to worry too much, dog's are almost always attacked only when left alone, so just keep an eye on your dogs. A small fenced yard is all you need for safe night time potty. You also have two dogs who will protect each other as best as they can and GSDs are often good in combat. Wild animals will always put survival first and in a flight or fight situation where they feel at high risk, they will often run. Many protection breeds have had that bred out of them and they can be extremely courageous and ignore danger, which can be threatening to wild animals. I think as two larger breeds they stand a good chance of scaring predators off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's called context dear. Yards may not be safe which is why they need to be fenced. And when I said it wasn't that I disagreed with you advice, it was to emphasize that I disagreed with your inaccurate statements. 

Which I still do. Because they simply are not true. 

And as to your above advice, I have to say I disagree with it. A small fence will not deter a predator. Magwart posted good information up the thread about coyote rollers and proper fencing. Belief that the dogs are capable of protecting one another is fool hearty at best. Following it very well can get the OP's dogs killed.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I don't think anyone here was vilifying wolves...I love and respect wildlife, maybe more than a lot of people. But I don't romanticize it either. It's not like there was no evidence here, OP had pretty good evidence that some wolves were casing their dogs. NO reason to think the dogs aren't in danger.
> 
> *OP, if I were in your situation, I'd be taking my dogs to the bathroom on 6' leashes at night, close to the house, done and back in. I would doubt that a wolf would approach and attach a human and 2 GSDs all close together like that.[/QUOTE*]
> 
> ...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> Do you have all the answers? Not to be a jerk, but you seriously argue like you know everything.
> Wolves will come over a 6 foot fence. Wolves will eat other carnivores. Coyote's, foxes, dogs, cats, etc. They are opportunistic. Your experience is your experience.


LOL ... I missed this bit of crazy! 

But the six foot fence yeah ... that would be nothing to a Wolf. If one has not come over it ... it would becasue they "choose not to." I have seen clips of a PPD (Breed that shall not be mentioned) scale a six foot concrete block fence, I was stunned???? I'd invest in "Coyote Rollers" or "Barbed Wire" on the top of that six foot fence if I lived in a "Predator Zone." 

Nothing worst than false sense of security.


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

This has been an interesting thread, for sure!

I was curious as to whether the female dog has been spayed. Could she be in heat, or getting ready to go into heat?

Quite often, when I have fostered a bitch in season, we have had curious dogs show up on the other side of our fence. I remember one old, old dog who lived down the block - he was almost blind, completely deaf, but he still had a terrific sense of smell. I would take him by the collar and walk him back home whenever he showed up.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Yes both my babies are fixed


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Nothing last night so I wonder if they where just passing through? I walked our property and no tracks..


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm installing my motion spot lights along the front of my house right now....
Man this is a pain I had to run the wiring through the attic to the facia in 3 spots and fish the wire down a wall in the garage and install a switch .. I hate unsulation...lol But it will be nice to have bright lighting in the front yard!!!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Another thought....how do you dispose of your dog poop?

I ask because sometimes people in rural areas just let it drop and let nature take care of it. My dad puts his in a brush pile in the rugged mountain area he lives in. Coyotes have been spotted foraging for it in that brush pile--he created an attractive food source for them, unfortunately. I wonder if the dog poop might be attracting wolves too.

One tip I was given by a Yellowstone park field biologist who works with wolves when we went to watch the packs there: if you want to know where wolves are, pay attention to ravens. These birds follow the wolves because they peck at left-over meat on the pack's kills. During daylight hours, if you see ravens around, wolves may be close too.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Magwart said:


> Another thought....how do you dispose of your dog poop?
> 
> I ask because sometimes people in rural areas just let it drop and let nature take care of it. My dad puts his in a brush pile in the rugged mountain area he lives in. Coyotes have been spotted foraging for it in that brush pile--he created an attractive food source for them, unfortunately. I wonder if the dog poop might be attracting wolves too.
> 
> One tip I was given by a Yellowstone park field biologist who works with wolves when we went to watch the packs there: if you want to know where wolves are, pay attention to ravens. These birds follow the wolves because they peck at left-over meat on the pack's kills. During daylight hours, if you see ravens around, wolves may be close too.


Because of the size of our property and that my dogs are fed raw I really don't pick up much poop to be honest! Most of the time it decompose fast since they are raw fed! Keep in mind that during the winter season the poop is preserved from the cold but I do try to scoop up what I see before the next snow fall!
Funny you mention ravens(I call them crowes..lol) but there has been qwite a few circling the north side of my property for the last few days!!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Yes long term I would definitely want a fenced potty yard. If you had a small fenced area and stood there supervising your dogs while they did their business at night I doubt a wolf would jump the fence to attack under those circumstances. 

I could be wrong, I am no wolf expert, but they should have a natural fear of people, and also *most* predators look for the outlier...one seperated or lagging, if you are all together in a smaller area there is no clear target.

Fence prevents a single dog from being lured.

Didn't you also say your dogs chased the wolf, even thought they came back when you called this is probably pretty dangerous.

OP, you are rural, I don't know if Tractor Supply is in canada, but here they sell 16' long, 5' high cattle panels for like 20 bucks. You can snap or zip tie 4 together free standing, or dd one or two posts and do more than 4, and voila, you have a cheap, simple sturdy potty yard. It won't keep a wolf out but like I said if you are there supervising your dogs are probably safe. You can even make a gate out of a cut cattle panel and some snaps, I have done it when I could afford a real gate


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I don't remember ever saying that the OP should feel comfortable leaving their dogs alone, simply stating fact that they have a higher chance of survival than small dogs, which are usually the ones to be killed by wolves.

So far the ranchers where I live have had great luck with 6 foot fences. Sometimes the wolves break through the wooden ones, but the chain link is barbed at the top and fastened properly at the bottom and I have yet to hear of any of the local ranchers having wolves get pass it.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

Dracovich said:


> I don't remember ever saying that the OP should feel comfortable leaving their dogs alone, simply stating fact that they have a higher chance of survival than small dogs, which are usually the ones to be killed by wolves.


Size doesn't matter in this case. A great dane may be larger than a wolf but it still doesn't stand a chance. Wolves have a stopping power and a perfect combination of speed and strength that very few dogs can match and not even fighting breeds can hold a candle to.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> Size doesn't matter in this case. A great dane may be larger than a wolf but it still doesn't stand a chance. Wolves have a stopping power and a perfect combination of speed and strength that very few dogs can match and not even fighting breeds can hold a candle to.


My Great Pyrs parents both fought off wolves, both survived and killed multiple predators, including wolves.


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## SamsontheGSD (Dec 23, 2016)

FWIW, wolves pick up on patterns pretty quickly. If they went so far as to bait your dogs into following them they probably know when you let them out at night. Changing your patterns a bit may help. Even if it is hust using a different door or path. Good luck, that's a bit scary.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dracovich said:


> I don't remember ever saying that the OP should feel comfortable leaving their dogs alone, simply stating fact that they have a higher chance of survival than small dogs, which are usually the ones to be killed by wolves.
> 
> So far the ranchers where I live have had great luck with 6 foot fences. Sometimes the wolves break through the wooden ones, but the chain link is barbed at the top and fastened properly at the bottom and I have yet to hear of any of the local ranchers having wolves get pass it.


I fully understand what your saying. 6 foot fences are working where you are ... no problem.

But it's not (mostly becasue it's a six foot) aside from the barbed wire guy ... the "predators" are most likely not jumping those fences becasue the odds of success "in that area" ... are not in there favor??? Wolves and Coyotes have not survived long term by taking unnecessary chances??

The odds in your area don't favor them ... in suburban "Reno Nv" ... they did. A homer owner lost two of three pugs. I can't remember if he was on site in the last encounter or reviewed security cameras to solve the mystery??? But he saw a Coyote that was easily scaling a no less than six foot stone or concrete block fence and it may have been eight feet tall ... people like tall fences in the West. 


That particular Coyote felt conditions were indeed favorable for backyard dog meals where he was ... and he was right. The ones where you are ... most likely are making different choices??? But it's not becasue they "can't" scale a six unprotected fence, it's most likely becasue... "they choose" not to ie ... don't like the odds???


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I live on the west coast. My assumption is that naturally someone will use barbed wire on a fence meant to keep predators out, I did not feel the need to say that. Sure, we will see fur along the barbs, but not blood trails or dead animals, so I'll assume that the predators get plucked then change their mind. Meaning to me that a 6 foot barbed fence is effective.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> Size doesn't matter in this case. A great dane may be larger than a wolf but it still doesn't stand a chance. Wolves have a stopping power and a perfect combination of speed and strength that very few dogs can match and not even fighting breeds can hold a candle to.


LOL it's a Dawg fight??? A Great Dane ... sure in ancient times ... "dogs of War." But today ... I don't know??? A pack of well trained, well disciplined dogs would of course be necessary. As well as a keep your distance "we'll" keep ours point of view. 

However ... out of my pack which would of course be mostly "Bully" based ... I'd go outside of my breed preference and have one of these guys. :

Irish Wolfhound Dog Images & Facts | petMD


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dracovich said:


> I live on the west coast. My assumption is that naturally someone will use barbed wire on a fence meant to keep predators out, I did not feel the need to say that. Sure, we will see fur along the barbs, but not blood trails or dead animals, so I'll assume that the predators get plucked then change their mind. Meaning to me that a 6 foot barbed fence is effective.


I don't remember you saying 6 feet and ... barbed wire??? But I miss stuff at times ... my bad, I stand corrected, so ... never mind.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> I don't remember you saying 6 feet and ... barbed wire??? But I miss stuff at times ... my bad, I stand corrected, so ... never mind.


No no I said 6 feet but not barbed wire, most of the chain link fences here are barb wired so I didn't think to add that, just seemed like a normal thing to me.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Dracovich said:


> I don't remember ever saying that the OP should feel comfortable leaving their dogs alone, simply stating fact that they have a higher chance of survival than small dogs, which are usually the ones to be killed by wolves.
> 
> So far the ranchers where I live have had great luck with 6 foot fences. Sometimes the wolves break through the wooden ones, but the chain link is barbed at the top and fastened properly at the bottom and I have yet to hear of any of the local ranchers having wolves get pass it.


Hold on, ranchers..as in people who ranch cattle on big acreage...using 6 foot chain link with barbed wire at the top? Am I understanding this correctly because 6' chain link with barbed wire at the top is going to be REALLY cost prohibitive and I don't see anybody putting that up on acreage. The ranchers where I used to live used 4' cattle wire with single strange barbed wire at the top, or barbed wire only, and I think that single strand was meant to keep the cattle from walking the fence down, not predators out, which it did not. NEVER heard of or seen 6' chain link on a ranch...but the only ranches I ever saw were in Florida so maybe the west coast is way different?

I suspect 6' chain link with three strands of barbed wire leaning out would probably keep a wolf from entering a yard. But your yard would also look like a prison  

Predator proof fencing on acreage is incredibly cost prohibitive period, I know, I used to raise dwarf goats in Jurrasic Park where everything wants to eat them and everything can. I put them in the barn at dusk and usually if I was leaving for a long period during the day, too. Newborn kids stayed in the barn for the first week or so, I had a covered dirt pen off one kidding stall so they could get a little exercise. The newborn kids were even small enough to get carried off by birds of prey. When they were a little bigger and faster I would put them in my smallest pasture right by my house so I could keep a close eye on the herd. I burned or buried afterbirth and soiled bedding from birth if the mother didn't eat it so the smell didn't attract predators.

Every single other person raising goats in that area is suffering major losses to panthers or panther hybrids. They tried to do a study using goats to control the invasive pepper trees but it was called off because every single goat supposed to be eating pepper trees was killed. They forgot to consider protecting the goats


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Miss Molly May said:


> Because of the size of our property and that my dogs are fed raw I really don't pick up much poop to be honest! Most of the time it decompose fast since they are raw fed! Keep in mind that during the winter season the poop is preserved from the cold but I do try to scoop up what I see before the next snow fall!
> Funny you mention ravens(I call them crowes..lol) but there has been qwite a few circling the north side of my property for the last few days!!


OP, do you ever feed your dogs anything raw outdoors? Even if they consume it all I wouldn't be surprised if the smell was still there and might attract the wolves. I'd feed them indoors only


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Dracovich said:


> My Great Pyrs parents both fought off wolves, both survived and killed multiple predators, including wolves.


But Pyrenees are bred to protect livestock from wolves. If I had stayed in goats I was definitely going to go to LGDs to increase the amount of time I had them on pasture.

Anyway, akbash dogs, Pyrenees, anatolians...if they are from working stock, are probably better equipped to face large predators than any other breed


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

As Cowboys girl was saying anything raw fed outside? When I fed Max raw he ate it outside as he was a feen and would also drop the food on the floor. I did not realize he was hiding what he was not finishing in the backyard somewhere. One day I saw him noshing I' saw something and it part of raw chicken quarter I have previously given him. I took it away- as I had no idea how long it was outside yuck. So the feeding outside ended. Not sure if that's what your dog would do or has done. If so I would think may attract unwanted guests.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I'm not talking about large scale ranchers, and certainly not their entire property. It's mostly to protect the barn and house. Even so, what is the relevance? Just curious?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dracovich said:


> No no I said 6 feet but not barbed wire, most of the chain link fences here are barb wired so I didn't think to add that, just seemed like a normal thing to me.


LOL ... apparently ... you and I both "overestimate" what people think is normal.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Dracovich said:


> I'm not talking about large scale ranchers, and certainly not their entire property. It's mostly to protect the barn and house. Even so, what is the relevance? Just curious?


Relevance...I'm just trying to understand what you are talking about. You say your local ranchers don't have wolf losses because they are using 6' chain link with barbed wire at the top, it just doesn't make sense to me....

ranchers usually raise cattle, cattle require large areas, large areas can't really be fenced with this type of fencing because it is so expensive. 

Even a rancher with their house and barn surrounded by this type of fence...I have just never seen such a thing. In my life I've only ever seen 6' chain link with barbed wire around like small urban lots where cars are stored or something expensive that people don't want stolen.

I guess the only time I've ever seen taller fence was at a deer farm and it still isn't chain link.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Relevance...I'm just trying to understand what you are talking about. You say your local ranchers don't have wolf losses because they are using 6' chain link with barbed wire at the top, it just doesn't make sense to me....
> 
> ranchers usually raise cattle, cattle require large areas, large areas can't really be fenced with this type of fencing because it is so expensive.
> 
> ...


this has been my experience as well. 

Grew up in the middle of no where. Lived on a farm. Know a lot of farmers. 

Don't see a lot of 6 foot chain link fences with barbed wire. That is NOT the norm.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Relevance...I'm just trying to understand what you are talking about. You say your local ranchers don't have wolf losses because they are using 6' chain link with barbed wire at the top, it just doesn't make sense to me....
> 
> ranchers usually raise cattle, cattle require large areas, large areas can't really be fenced with this type of fencing because it is so expensive.
> 
> ...


I'm sure I've mentioned that LGDs are very common here, that is why they don't have wolf losses. Livestock are not always in the field, but when they are their dogs keep them safe. Barns with animals attract predators, so aside from LGDs ranchers use such fencing to keep their barn and home safe, because they are also in danger if a predator sees humans getting between them and their food. In my specific area alpacas and llamas are more common than cattle. Hope that sheds some light on what I'm talking about.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Dracovich said:


> I'm sure I've mentioned that LGDs are very common here, that is why they don't have wolf losses. Livestock are not always in the field, but when they are their dogs keep them safe. Barns with animals attract predators, so aside from LGDs ranchers use such fencing to keep their barn and home safe, because they are also in danger if a predator sees humans getting between them and their food. In my specific area alpacas and llamas are more common than cattle. Hope that sheds some light on what I'm talking about.


oh. Lots of llamas and alpacas around here too. Actually some sheep farmers are having good luck with llamas as guarding animals. 

I have a llama farm right down the road from me but they use high tensile electric fencing, it's about 5' tall


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> I'm sure I've mentioned that LGDs are very common here, that is why they don't have wolf losses. Livestock are not always in the field, but when they are their dogs keep them safe. Barns with animals attract predators, so aside from LGDs ranchers use such fencing to keep their barn and home safe, because they are also in danger if a predator sees humans getting between them and their food. In my specific area alpacas and llamas are more common than cattle. Hope that sheds some light on what I'm talking about.


No, it doesn't really shed light on what you are talking about. 

You previously said:



> So far the ranchers where I live have had great luck with 6 foot fences. Sometimes the wolves break through the wooden ones, but the chain link is barbed at the top and fastened properly at the bottom and I have yet to hear of any of the local ranchers having wolves get pass it.


Implying that 6 foot chain links with barbed wire is what is keeping wolves off your area's rancher's land. 

Now you are saying that it's all thanks to the LSGs.

You have been showing a pattern here. You are back peddling. Someone more experienced steps in and you throw up your hands "Oh that's not what I meant" 

This is a very serious situation that the OP is dealing with. 

I wonder if you have ever actually even seen a ranch, because it sounds like you are just making stuff up. Which, once again, considering the seriousness of the situation the OP is facing, and that they came here looking for sound advice, is very distressing.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> oh. Lots of llamas and alpacas around here too. Actually some sheep farmers are having good luck with llamas as guarding animals.
> 
> I have a llama farm right down the road from me but they use high tensile electric fencing, it's about 5' tall


Growing up I was always told to stay the heck away from them because they are hostile  I have no personal experience with them but I've heard they put up a good fight against predators. I've heard the same thing about roosters, too, but mine only ever had interest in attacking me LOL I still have scars on my legs.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> No, it doesn't really shed light on what you are talking about.
> 
> You previously said:
> 
> ...


What are you confused about? They don't fence their entire land, they fence the barn and house vicinity, and no wolves do not get through them. I never claimed they fence their entire property, show me where I said that.


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> Thanks for your opinion, but considering the main source of food for predators is prey (hence the names), that makes predators eating predators not normal. Take population into consideration as well, there's far more prey so naturally a predator will go for the easier source of which is higher in numbers.
> 
> Yes, predators will kill other predators, I never said that does not happen, but predators prey upon prey for the most part making prey their normal source of food, and other predators not their normal source of food.


Finally read through all the posts. But here is a link to a credible gov based source, Wisconson i believe?

Wolf caution areas - Wisconsin DNR

People are not as careful as they should be. And if the OP saw what was more than likely wolves, that is why they get getting all the advice they are about keeping their dogs safe. 

Oh and on a side note, there is a small sheep farm here, who has a camel for protection of the sheep, instead of a llama. LOL  Otherwise I would say more places use GP or Maremma's. And they are typically dedicated outside/barn dogs.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

My Pyr (possible maremma cross) was more interested in people than livestock, but they are great dogs and extremely protective, she is very friendly with people but will chase off any trespassing animal, even a cougar once. She will sleep in the snow if we let her! I am very supportive of using LGDs as livestock protection, as long as the dogs are taken care of.


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> My Pyr (possible maremma cross) was more interested in people than livestock, but they are great dogs and extremely protective, she is very friendly with people but will chase off any trespassing animal, even a cougar once. She will sleep in the snow if we let her! I am very supportive of using LGDs as livestock protection, as long as the dogs are taken care of.


Shes beautiful! I agree, I have no problem with that either! Better life than being cooped up inside all day if you ask me. They got their dog buddy (usually) and a full time job, and they almost never have to "hold it." Sounds good to me! 
As long as people take care of their coats. I see some GPs that are so matted they have to clipped down short... I hate doing it, but there is no other option.  I had to do this with a working GP (she is always outside with sheep) She was a horrible mess... and she had sores on her body from the matts, thankfully it was almost spring, so it was probably a bit chilly some nights but she was able to grow her coat back before summer!


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

VTGirlT said:


> Shes beautiful! I agree, I have no problem with that either! Better life than being cooped up inside all day if you ask me. They got their dog buddy (usually) and a full time job, and they almost never have to "hold it." Sounds good to me!
> As long as people take care of their coats. I see some GPs that are so matted they have to clipped down short... I hate doing it, but there is no other option.  I had to do this with a working GP (she is always outside with sheep) She was a horrible mess... and she had sores on her body from the matts, thankfully it was almost spring, so it was probably a bit chilly some nights but she was able to grow her coat back before summer!


Yep and it breaks my heart, I've seen them so matted up that there's dried blood around the matting. I saw one come into the vet same time as me and the dogs side was flat because it laid on it for so long, she laid down in the clinic and when they got her up (they had to wrap towels around her to lift her) there was a PILE of dirt left from her coat. She was in such horrible condition she had to be euthanized. 

I think that generally ranchers know that if you don't brush them out every once in awhile they are likely to end up with a large vet bill from infections and such. They are so stinkin adorable when they are brushed and clean too! I have to check my Pyrenees coat regularly for matts, if I cant brush them out I will cut them off because the longer they are left the worse they get!

Dog-moms tend to think that all dogs want to be house pets, but dogs like GPs love being outdoors, not to mention a human comfortable temperature is REALLY warm to a dog with a coat like a GP, mine would overheat if left inside for too long! They are bred to enjoy being with livestock, too, it adds to their drive to protect. As long as a LGD has a weekly brushing, some human affection, food, water, shelter and vet care, I think they are happy dogs. Oh and a dog buddy too


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Miss Molly May said:


> Here goes:
> Last night around 11pm I let both Max and Molly out for there business and when I opened the door both dogs bolted barking and growling. Both Max and Molly headed towards the bush then I called them back. They came back right away but were losing it, barking and growling in the direction they ran!. Then I noticed at the end of our driveway there was a huge dog standing there waiting so I called Max and Molly in. I got both my dogs in the house and yelled at my wife to come out and see this the big dog(I'm thinking was a wolf ) stood there then ran down out of site! This morning I decided to go see the tracks in the snow, there was huge prints leading to a bunch of other prints down by the water then they all headed into the bush! I'm kinda freeked out I'm thinking the wolf was luring my dogs!!!:frown2:
> *will wolves actually hunt dogs*


Wolves will absolutely hunt domestic dogs. When I say hunt, I mean they will stalk and kill them. Whether or not they actually eat them after the kill is another topic unto itself. Many of the domestic dogs killed by wolves are done so out of territorial or pack aggression...in the same way that wolves will kill rival pack members or coyotes. This is especially prevalent when they have a fresh litter of pups.

I wouldn't freak out, but you should be aware your surroundings: don't let your dogs wander out of sight; keep them indoors when unattended or at night; don't leave trash or food that might attract wolves; ect.

Also, when you do see them on your property you should do what you can to dissuade their presence: loud noises; moving and flailing your arms; stand your ground. They generally don't want to hang out when humans are around, but if they become habituated to your presence there could be problems in the long term.

If the wolves are actively wandering your around your property, there is a good chance that they consider the area to be their turf. So they may not ever entirely leave the area, but do everything you can to make them realize there are no easy opportunities for food, and they should focus their efforts elsewhere. If they become persistent in trying to go after your dog or they start acting more bold around you (which it doesn't sound like they are there yet) you might consider contacting a government wildlife official about exploring your options (lethal and nonlethal).


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