# 12 month old not happy during training



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Dexter and I are doing an intermediate behavior class. Positive and some corrections. I have learned to correct properly, even though hes a really soft dog. He isnt completely shutting down now, but he seems just to be going through the motions and not engaging with me like before. Even his sits are now more to the side and not facing me. He listens well at home and has fun other places but the moment we get to class, he looks depressed . I need some help on what to do. Im trying to make the class more fun, but theres no time to reward his behavior with his tug toy, as the class is already going into their next exercise.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

With a soft dog verbal corrections can be enough.

Are you sure he knows what is being asked of him before he is corrected into it. 

Him going into shut down is probably a form of avoidance of the training methods applied.

You could be better off watching the class with your dog and using your time at home to complete the tasks using the tug or other reward system your happy with.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Yes im sure he knows the command. For example a come and sit in front of you. I am saying the command along with adding the sit signal. Im excitedly calling him to me but instead of his usual happy self he comes and then sits in front but at a side and looks away from me. I hope im making sense.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

MadLab said:


> With a soft dog verbal corrections can be enough.
> 
> Are you sure he knows what is being asked of him before he is corrected into it.
> 
> ...


I could do that, im sure they wont mind


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Msmaria said:


> Dexter and I are doing an intermediate behavior class. Positive and some corrections. I have learned to correct properly, even though hes a really soft dog. He isnt completely shutting down now, but he seems just to be going through the motions and not engaging with me like before. Even his sits are now more to the side and not facing me. He listens well at home and has fun other places but the moment we get to class, he looks depressed . I need some help on what to do. *Im trying to make the class more fun, but theres no time to reward his behavior with his tug toy, as the class is already going into their next exercise*.


I would step back then and not really go with what they are doing....obviously they are moving too fast? Reward him, play with him, get him engaged with you. If the instructor isn't willing to let you do that, then maybe this class isn't a good fit. I train at a place where a bunch of us just drop in. No instructors, we're just training inside together with distractions. I see so many obedience people doing things that are so boring for the dogs, then they do ear pinches to get them to conform(go arounds at a fast pace keeping up with the handler as an example)
So far behind the times with their techniques.
The dogs are doing factory work, not enjoying it at all. If training isn't fun for the dog it isn't fun for the handler either~what's the point?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

make the class fun for both of you. make all of the
training fun for both of you whether it's at class or
anywhere else. instead of treating with a tug how about
usuing a food treat since the class is moving so fast.
give your dog a verbal praise, pet your dog, use a
happy voice, etc.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Im with onyx. With a soft dog the reward especially the retrieve are good de stressors to the aversives especially if they are just getting into them for the first time. Class might not be a good fit. How long has he been training with pressure?

Like doggie said use those emotions


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Hes been in the class about 3 weeks. I agree were not having fun like we used to with our puppy trainer and our nosework class. Its awesome to see the dogs that have graduated with the hand signals with downs and stays.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> make the class fun for both of you. make all of the
> training fun for both of you whether it's at class or
> anywhere else. instead of treating with a tug how about
> usuing a food treat since the class is moving so fast.
> ...


Hi doggie dad , ive tried the food. He did great with the food reward in his previous class, but lately in class in doesnt work as well. He ignores it and looks away. He gets very distracted with the squirrels and after a correction listens but then he wont look at me.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> make the class fun for both of you. make all of the
> training fun for both of you whether it's at class or
> anywhere else. instead of treating with a tug how about
> usuing a food treat since the class is moving so fast.
> ...


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

If the class isn't fun for the dog, move on. It's not the right fit. If my dog ever stops whining in anticipation about a half mile or more before we hit the training field, I'll be done there. No questions asked. These dogs LOVE to work. If they're not loving it, it's just not a fit for them. The *last* thing you want to do is see the dog shut down and hold back during training 

Have you tried a personal trainer? More expensive, but IMO so worth giving up the Starbucks in favor of fostering my dog's success. We had a wrong trainer before. Now we have one who really understands my dog. When I say to Jack, "Let's Work!" he goes Nuts. That's what you want 


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

So there is no kind of treat he goes nuts for? there's not enough time to reward with the ball so he's basically working for nothing, not much fun for him. Tuke had similar issues, but could be won over with her favorite treats and lots of animation from me. Prior to me stepping it up, she would grab my pant leg and tug me toward the exit anytime we passed it.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Nigel said:


> So there is no kind of treat he goes nuts for? there's not enough time to reward with the ball so he's basically working for nothing, not much fun for him. Tuke had similar issues, but could be won over with her favorite treats and lots of animation from me. Prior to me stepping it up, she would grab my pant leg and tug me toward the exit anytime we passed it.



Lol. She was pretty obvious she was ready to go. 
I want him to have fun, I wasnt sure if I was doing the right thing by making him stay in the class. He is a year old so I understand when the trainer said he should be able to complete the command without a lure. But I feel like im going to mess up our bond. Its pretty obvious from replies here I should just do my thing and play with him, even if we are falling behind.


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

Read control unleashed. Talks completely about this behavior

Metro 10/2005-5/2013
Sabo 3/2013-now
Kia 1/2014- now


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You are falling behind according to who's standard? Are you planning on doing competitive obedience? If this class is just for manners and fun...don't let it stress you. 12 months is still very young in a male GSD's brain. Maybe find a great nosework class and quit with the control type training. Nosework is more independent and confidence building. Dexter may enjoy that far more than the boredom of obedience at this stage in his growth.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

erfunhouse said:


> Read control unleashed. Talks completely about this behavior
> 
> Metro 10/2005-5/2013
> Sabo 3/2013-now
> Kia 1/2014- now


Is that a book?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

It is a book with exercises that build off each other. It is more for dogs with reactive behavior, though it touches on focus and engagement as well. 
CONTROL UNLEASHED - CREATING A FOCUSED AND CONFIDENT DOG - Dog Training and Behavior - Dogwise.com


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> You are falling behind according to who's standard? Are you planning on doing competitive obedience? If this class is just for manners and fun...don't let it stress you. 12 months is still very young in a male GSD's brain. Maybe find a great nosework class and quit with the control type training. Nosework is more independent and confidence building. Dexter may enjoy that far more than the boredom of obedience at this stage in his growth.


No competition, we are doing this just for manners and mainly to get him some socialization, getting him out in new places. He started to bark at a few people. We are also doing nosework which he loves on mon ,fun agility on wed just playing at the park on fri and obedience on sat morning.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> It is a book with exercises that build off each other. It is more for dogs with reactive behavior, though it touches on focus and engagement as well.
> CONTROL UNLEASHED - CREATING A FOCUSED AND CONFIDENT DOG - Dog Training and Behavior - Dogwise.com


That sounds like just what we need. We need confidence building.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I had the exact same problem with Lola, she is advance obedience trained but from class 4 to advance she was, as you say, just going through the motions and looked bored. Her response time became delayed and I decided it would be a waste of time going on to trialing, even though her stability was excellent. The trainers I spoke to didn't really give me any good advice on how to motivate her, so I decided not to go further with her and concentrated on my male.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

maybe the class is moving to fast for your dog. go at your
dog's pace. you're not falling behind because you slowed
things down.

do you train everyday? maybe your dog needs a few days
or a week off from training. i'm just guessing at how much
time to take off. 



Msmaria said:


> Lol. She was pretty obvious she was ready to go.
> I want him to have fun, I wasnt sure if I was doing the right thing by making him stay in the class. He is a year old so I understand when the trainer said he should be able to complete the command without a lure. But I feel like im going to mess up our bond. Its pretty obvious from replies here
> 
> >>>> I should just do my thing and play with him, even if we are falling behind.<<<<


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

As harry and Lola said im see the delay too.

To Doggiedad, Were doing 3 days trsining with trainers for an hour right now. We used to do only once a week. On the other days I do at least 15 mins training on my own, which he loves as I use is tug like in the ellis videos I saw here. Fri before work we play and do a little training on our own at the park. Sun my kids have him in the morning while im here at work and then we usually take him hiking or to the dog beach, lovely weather here still, when I get home. Do u think hes getting burned out?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Something wrong has gotta be happening. Negative reinforcement applied correctly should be making stuff snappy. What kind of corrections are you using?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Msmaria said:


> He is a year old so I understand when the trainer said he should be able to complete the command without a lure.


She may be right, but there's a difference between using food as a lure and using it as a reward after the dog complies. 

But also, there is no one magic age where a lure would no longer be appropriate, it really depends on the specific behavior you're working on, and how easy/hard and well established it is. Even if his sit is immediate 100% of the time at home (which you can certainly praise, but I wouldn't be using a food or toy reward for that anymore), the command may not be well generalized, especially to new and distracting environments such as a training class. And if you're talking about something more difficult, such as heel, you might need to lure longer before fading it out. And again, I'd still be using plenty of food rewards after you stop luring.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Its possible im doing something wrong. I dunno. Im using a martingale. This is the only class I use the martingale. It is in a new location, lots of distractions ie. Squirrels, other dogs in the agility over the way, kids running around throwing balls. Lots of squirrel and duck poop to sniff at. When he blows me off I correct him.then he starts going through the motions unhappy look on his face, looking away from me, does commands slowly. Soon as we leave class (he starts heading to parking lot 5 mins before class ends, even the trainer noticed it) hes is usual bouncy, looking at me, tongue hanging out self. We just did some hand signal training at home and he did good.sits right in front of me, watching my every move. Although theres NO distractions here. I think im gonna step back and do some of the suggestions. Im going to go to class but stay in our corner and work at our pace with a flat collar for now. At least until I get the book..unleashed.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

A correction is a vague vague term though what are you actually doing?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my dog stopped retrieving. my trainer told me to stop
training him for a week. i kept up with the house training.
a week later we started the retrieving training. he started
doing a little at a time. we worked our way up to distance
and a variety of things to retrieve.

when we were training i did things at my dog's pace. i figured
if my dog learns 1 thing a month in 2 years that's 24 things/commands.
knowing 24 commands is a lot in my opinon.

during training there wasn't a lot of corrections. if my dog didn't
do something i repeated the exercise with praise and gentle hands.



Msmaria said:


> To Doggiedad, Do u think hes getting burned out?


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Just a quick pop on the leash. A good one to get his attention but not hard where he will totally shut down.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> my dog stopped retrieving. my trainer told me to stop
> training him for a week. i kept up with the house training.
> a week later we started the retrieving training. he started
> doing a little at a time. we worked our way up to distance
> ...


I like the way you think.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

maybe stop popping the leash. i use to tap my dog's leash
to get his attention. i'm holding the leash in my right hand.
the leash is going across my body to my left side. my left
hand is over the leash. i use to take my ring finger and middle 
finger and barely tap the leash. this would get his attention.
a verbal cue will work also.



Msmaria said:


> Just a quick pop on the leash. A good one to get his attention but not hard where he will totally shut down.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

to me a leash pop is a correction. maybe your dog doesn't need a leash
pop to get his attention. try something else.



Msmaria said:


> Just a quick pop on the leash. A good one to get his attention but not hard where he will totally shut down.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Doggie dad, I give him a verbal first.???.if were out walking using his flat collar, just the jingle from all his tags does it. But at the class hes so hardheaded. I hate doing the corrections. Because I know whats going to happen. Hes going to get sulky. And then were not having fun.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> to me a leash pop is a correction. maybe your dog doesn't need a leash
> pop to get his attention. try something else.


im going to try some chopped steak this week I hope thats better than duck poop.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Right after you correct him, bring him back up into drive...have him do some circles/turns/ups. What are you actually correcting him for?


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> Right after you correct him, bring him back up into drive...have him do some circles/turns/ups. What are you actually correcting him for?


I'm correcting him for not sitting when I tell him to sit. Instead he's smelling the ground or trying to pull to the agility section.


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## Daniellezeus (Nov 6, 2013)

I think you should spend lots of time just playing with him in the park, on walks, etc. Bring his favorite toys/treats, find a nice open place and just stand there. Don't give him any corrections. Just stand there and let him look around or sniff. When he finally looks at you have a party! Bring out the toy or the treats and run/play with him. It may take a while, but he should start looking at you more. You can do this outside of class to encourage engagement. Micheal Ellis has a video demonstrating this. I'll see if I can find it.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Daniellezeus said:


> I think you should spend lots of time just playing with him in the park, on walks, etc. Bring his favorite toys/treats, find a nice open place and just stand there. Don't give him any corrections. Just stand there and let him look around or sniff. When he finally looks at you have a party! Bring out the toy or the treats and run/play with him. It may take a while, but he should start looking at you more. You can do this outside of class to encourage engagement. Micheal Ellis has a video demonstrating this. I'll see if I can find it.


I know which one your talking about, its very good. My class was going way to fast for me to stop and engage with him after a command. but I agree my dog needs more fun. I think he associates this class now with corrections. i have to change that. I wasnt sure if i should stay on the corrections at his age, and not baby him. But after all the comments from you guys, I am going to stop and make it fun for him. Like doggie dad said if he can learn just one command a month it adds up to alot.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

You have to teach the "No sulking" command. JK!!!

I had some problems with my pup when we were training in a park. I did feel bad for him because here was this great open area, but we hopped out of the truck and went straight into OB. I started going 1/2 an hour earlier to let him smell the squirrel poo and play with the leaves, and this made a huge difference in his attitude. Maybe that would help you too?


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> You have to teach the "No sulking" command. JK!!!
> 
> I had some problems with my pup when we were training in a park. I did feel bad for him because here was this great open area, but we hopped out of the truck and went straight into OB. I started going 1/2 an hour earlier to let him smell the squirrel poo and play with the leaves, and this made a huge difference in his attitude. Maybe that would help you too?


I will do that this sat. What is about squirrel poop that so fascinating?(rhetorical question) lol. I bet if we used that in nosework hed find it yards away.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I would take a break from training. And then can you just do a different type of training like nosework or agility?


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Read about NILIF training. I'd say no more.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Hi David we have been doing NILIF since i joined this site last year. 

@ Gretchen. Im going to try another day with all the advice here, if it doesnt help, then Im going to stop taking him to this specific class and just use that time to play more.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I have no problem with corrections in general, but my bias is always going to be towards motivational training. The more I can make my dogs WANT to engage with me, the more I can show them that it's in their best interest to do what I want because that's the path to get what THEY want, the fewer corrections I need to use for non-compliance. For that reason it just makes sense to train as reward based as I can, and only use corrections when I feel I must. 

If your dog is clearly not happy and having fun in training, it seems likely he's getting too many corrections and not enough rewards, which means that he's put in situations where he's likely to fail, rather than being set up to succeed. 

If he's not sitting in class (a simple command, and probably one of the first things you taught him), and he's more interested in sniffing the floor or pulling towards the agility area, then there might be too much going on in the environment for him to focus and obey commands. Correcting him for that doesn't seem to be helping, so try something else. 

Jane mentioned Control Unleashed, an excellent book by Leslie McDevitt. One thing Leslie is really adamant about is that when you train in a new, more distracting environment, if your dog is distracted or worried, or showing signs of stress, you lower the criteria. That means that maybe you go back to luring a sit for awhile, maybe you up your reinforcement schedule, even for things that he should already "know", that wouldn't need to be reinforced in a less distracting environment such as around the house.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Thanks to evetyone with their advice, im so happy to day, Dex did sooooo much better this week. I took a step back and stopped doing the martingale corrections, went back to the flat collar using the jingle of his tags as a correction,played with him several times during the week at the same park that we practice at, use some boiled chicken for treats. I didnt have to slow down the training this time, I was able to keep up with the class. I don't know how he will do next week. but this week he did so well that they used him twice as the demo dog.


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

A concept I have learned from my Schutzhund trainer and is also principle to Michael Ellis's training is this one word: Engagement. Once you have total engagement training is going to be way more fun and successful. Until I have great engagement I don't bother with training obedience behaviors.

From reading your posts, it sounds like the dog is not engaged and any corrections are just going to lower drive and engagement. The distraction and ground sniffing very well can be avoidance behavior and is another example of the dog's mental state during the training - stressed.

As someone else mentioned, if it were me I would take a big step back and build back trust, build engagement, and train to bring up drive, which enhances engagement. I'm not saying corrections should never be used but of I see a dog that is not engaged, not in drive and showing avoidance while training then I would not be doing corrections to "fix" it because it generally won't. 

Play play play! Build back your dog's trust and enjoyment for being with you. Key - Keep training short, high energy and fun. I also like to use breakfast and/or dinner to do food training (particularly with young dogs). Again, short sessions and use the food to build drive. Use food as you would a toy to make drive - don't just feed it to them make them move for it. There is good information out there on how to make food an "active" reward, which increases it's value for creating drive.

The thing is, every dog is a little different and every trainer has different skill levels in reading a dog, timing, etc. so sometimes techniques that work for one person and their dogs is just not going to be right for another person and their dog.

Good luck! And happy training!


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Sorry forgot to mention that I ordered the books control unleashed and the cautious canine.

Yes u are right he was not engaging with me especially after corrections. I have been working with him on engagement while playing and doing some training on my own at the park.


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