# Anyone own or have experience with these breeds?



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I want to buy a show quality puppy to get into conformation showing in one of these breeds in a few years and need help narrowing it down to a breed I can research and prepare for. 

I want a large, low energy, HEALTHY breed, grooming doesn't matter, and I am really looking for a wrinkly, smooshed-face breed but that comes after all of the other stuff.

I have it down to a few now:
Shar Pei
Boerboel
Newfoundland
Leonberger


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Add dogue de Bordeaux (sp?) to that list!


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

My limited experience with Boerboel tells me that they are NOT for the feignt of heart. Very very protective, inaccepting of new animals or people. Not an easy breed. 

I like the Leonberger and second the Dogue de Bordeaux. 


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

What experience do you have? What kind of dogs have you raised and have you done any sort of competition before? 

Just off the top:
-Shar-peis are notorious for serious skin conditions and allergies

-Boerboels, while relatively low energy in my experience, need expert socialization and training. Otherwise they can be extremely aggressive and have a tendency to take a situation into their own hands which can end badly. Even with proper socialization, they have a tendency to be a bit stand-offish to new people and things. I would not recommend this one unless you are VERY experienced with large, natural guarders.

-Newfies and Leos both tend to be pretty laid back. They both can have pretty short lifespans and they have the general health problems of large breeds, namely hips and eyes.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Dogues are pretty neat dogs. I don't know too much about their health issues besides normal big dog issues. I do love their temperament though.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I love Bully breeds myself and would love a Boeboel but that is a serious, better have your crap together dog! Someone on here has one but I can't remember who?

Not a fan of Shar Pei or Chows myself, think they are both pretty much the same.

Newfies are pretty much gentle giants. Leonberger don't know but in general the Newfies was breed to "save" people the others you listed..not so much!


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> My limited experience with Boerboel tells me that they are NOT for the feignt of heart. Very very protective, inaccepting of new animals or people. Not an easy breed.
> 
> I like the Leonberger and second the Dogue de Bordeaux.
> 
> ...


Oh I see... Would they maybe be okay with animals they were raised with from puppies?






Pax8 said:


> What experience do you have? What kind of dogs have you raised and have you done any sort of competition before?
> 
> Just off the top:
> -Shar-peis are notorious for serious skin conditions and allergies
> ...





I have Eko, my GSD, he is fairly DA but he does well with puppies and some female dogs. I also have my APBT mix, she is very dog friendly. Both of them are wary of strangers but are ok once they spend some time with the person. I also owned a golden retriever before, she was friendly all around 

I've never done any kind of competition before, that's why I am thinking of buying the pup a few years from now and spending this time researching the breed and going to some shows to see what it's all about. There was an AKC show recently in my area and it looked like so much fun! 

Shar peis are probably at the top of my list right now, but the allergy and skin issues could be a problem. I am already dealing with serious allergies, epilepsy, and incontinence with my APBT mix I am hoping to find a breed that I won't have to take to the vet as much as Xena.

Eko is what I would probably call my first guarding breed, so I don't have a whole lot of experience with that. Boerboels sound very intense!

That's the only thing I don't like about the Newfs and Leos, they don't live very long and I don't want to get another dog that will pass around the same time as Eko and Xena. I couldn't handle losing 3 dogs close together 




Pax8 said:


> Dogues are pretty neat dogs. I don't know too much about their health issues besides normal big dog issues. I do love their temperament though.



So far I have heard they are very sweet dogs  they are high up on my list too.




Chip18 said:


> I love Bully breeds myself and would love a Boeboel but that is a serious, better have your crap together dog! Someone on here has one but I can't remember who?
> 
> Not a fan of Shar Pei or Chows myself, think they are both pretty much the same.
> 
> Newfies are pretty much gentle giants. Leonberger don't know but in general the Newfies was breed to "save" people the others you listed..not so much!


That's the impression I'm getting now... They may be too much for what I'm looking for. 

Seems like people either love shar peis, hate them, or don't know anything about them lol!

Newfs look like really really great dogs. I met one once and it was a very nice dog


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

It's sounding to me like the top of your list based on your current situation and preferences might be the Dogue. The Newfies and Leos probably aren't going to live the longer lifespan that you're looking for. I don't think I've ever seen a shar pei without extensive health issues. And if you have to wonder if you could handle a Boerboel, you can't handle it. I haven't owned one, but I've worked closely with a couple. One from puppy to adult and the other as an adult. I wouldn't recommend them to a household with other dogs. They can learn to tolerate other dogs if raised with them, but in my experience they really only tolerate. The family that raised the boerboel puppy ended up keeping their other dog largely seperate from him because even though he was raised with the dog from puppyhood, he just did not want to interact with it.

From what I've seen, the Dogue has mostly just basic big dog issues when it comes to health, can live a decent life span if well taken care of, and is laid back enough to get along with other dogs and for a moderately experienced handler to do well with it.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Pax8 said:


> It's sounding to me like the top of your list based on your current situation and preferences might be the Dogue. The Newfies and Leos probably aren't going to live the longer lifespan that you're looking for. I don't think I've ever seen a shar pei without extensive health issues. And if you have to wonder if you could handle a Boerboel, you can't handle it. I haven't owned one, but I've worked closely with a couple. One from puppy to adult and the other as an adult. I wouldn't recommend them to a household with other dogs. They can learn to tolerate other dogs if raised with them, but in my experience they really only tolerate. The family that raised the boerboel puppy ended up keeping their other dog largely seperate from him because even though he was raised with the dog from puppyhood, he just did not want to interact with it.
> 
> From what I've seen, the Dogue has mostly just basic big dog issues when it comes to health, can live a decent life span if well taken care of, and is laid back enough to get along with other dogs and for a moderately experienced handler to do well with it.


Wikipedia just said a Dogue's life expectancy is 5-8 years... I'm hoping to get at least 10-12 years, is that possible with the dogue if I go through a good breeder and take good care of them like you said?


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

A lot will depend on care. Especially in large breeds. One of my friends runs a Dane rescue. Danes are only supposed to live 5-6 years if I remember correctly. Hers average a life span of 9-11 years (barring extreme health issues) due to healthy diet and exceptional care. Large dogs definitely won't live as long as, say, a rat terrier but their life span can be significantly increased by buying from a responsible breeder who runs meticulous health tests and by providing detailed care. Also, the friend with the Dane rescue feeds raw.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I know nothing about boerboels-have never met one- shar peis-I have met a lot of them-was at a shar pei event-to me they have no personality-except for one I met and I don't think he was the typical shar pei-they are low energy and low drive-

I think Newf/Leos and dogues all have about the same lifespan- dogues - do have cool personalities- my pick would be a newf or a leo-just love their temperments


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

My experience with a Boerbel is the same. Many of us knew the puppy as it was growing up and played with it and everything but now I don't even like to go to that farm because all that is between me and that dog is a fence. He has torn up several intruders for the farmer. He killed a puppy. 

I thought the sharpei was a medium sized dog. I first met them at my first job out of college (1977) at the UGA Vet School ....... a lot of referrals for skin problems and we were all going "ugh why would anyone breed this thing"


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I have owned a Boerboel (BB) and am part of a BB rescue organization. They are an amazing breed if you get from a good breeder. That, as with most breeds, is the absolute key.. They are awesome dogs, great temperament when you get a good breeder. They are good with family. Much more energy than the English Mastiff, but still have an off switch inside. Miss Athena was an absolute cuddle bug too! I did have a few issues with her, but that I think was due to more of me training her than anything. Training is more of a negotiation with them, as far as I'm concerned. Lol.. where the GSD is "what can I do for you" I found BB's are more "what will you do for me if I sit.." Lol. 

Beautiful dogs and I am happy that they are not as popular as some breeds.. kinda helps save them a bit.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I will say, after reading responses about the BB.. this is very true if not from a reputable breeder.. and that search as to be extensive. There are BB's in all lines of work, from protection, obviously, to show, therapy dogs, etc. It really is a diverse breed, but you have to be able to train from day one and not get lax.. like any other large protective breed. With the right breeder you will get a wonderful dog. I have many contacts I could hook you up with if you want to know more about the breed, who have owned more than one, males and females.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Shar Pei - friends had one and he was extremely aloof, protective and was lucky to have good (but to me, completely unpettable - not nice to the touch) skin. I have seen them at the vet office with horrible issues, and distraught owners. 
Boerboel - why is this on the list? Just wondering what people would want them for? 
Newfoundland - good breeders, nice dogs. I would want to have them around some water if possible so they could enjoy that. So slow, and don't seem to get their body size - there were always a bunch in obedience classes I went to and during those figure 8 exercises they could not stay in their own space - just wandering, no big deal...or maybe it was just their owners!
Leonberger - same, good breeders, nice dogs. Spent a few therapy classes with a couple and they were nice. They were young, and I didn't meet that breeder's older dogs so not sure how well they maintained that pleasantness. This website is blunt and I like it: Leonbergers: What's Good About 'Em? What's Bad About 'Em? and then their list of health issues: http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/dog-breeds/leonberger compared with.... http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/dog-breeds/german-shepherd-dog
Surprised with those 2 on the list you don't have a Berner. 
Dogue de Bordeaux Dogue de Bordeaux @ www.bordeauxdogs.de lifespan of 6 years Dogue de Bordeaux | Dog Breed Health


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Boerboel - why is this on the list? Just wondering what people would want them for?


I would assume, the same reason someone would want any other dog. Why not?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

wyoung2153 said:


> I would assume, the same reason someone would want any other dog. Why not?


I don't want to assume, I want to know why. That's not why I get a dog "why not" I have to like the breed traits and characteristics, the history and purpose of the breed has to make sense for my ability to manage the dog, then I look at the individual dog to see if it's a match for me. I can explain exactly how I come to the choices of dogs I have or like, and want to know why someone would choose that particular type of dog. The OP can choose to ignore that kind of question, but it's one that is/should be asked daily on this board for anyone considering a GSD as well (or any other dog breed or mix). That is a dog that to me, is on a different part of the spectrum from the others listed, and I am curious as to what makes that breed appealing to someone.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I don't think any of the breeds on your list are particularly healthy breeds. I once spoke to a Dogue owner who said that if you get a Dogue, get a pet insurance policy for him because you WILL need it. Shar Pei are known for skin and ear problems. Newfs and Leonbergers have a short life span. I don't know much about the Boerboel but from everything I've heard about them, they don't sound like a good choice for a beginner.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

If you like dogs with smoochy faces how is it you skipped Boxers? To me a Boxer is a much less intense version of a Boerboel.

There are American Boxers and Euros, the Euros are slightly bulkier , look like small Bull Mastiffs and have a temperament closer to the GSD. The American Boxers are slightly smaller and have a much higher "goofiness" factor!

They can have a lot of health issues, so it's important to get one from a good breeder and even at that 10 years if your lucky!

But even at that they have a very high smile factor and are great dogs, if you put in the work. I'm on the look for another one now.

Other consideration is Boxers if a girl should be the only female dog in the household!


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

boxers are not low energy-they are cool dogs though


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## LoveDogs (Feb 3, 2014)

Someone left a shar pei at my door years ago, chained to the railing on my porch. The pup was MAYBE 10-12 weeks old at the time. I did not like the dog (only dog I never liked), I kept him 2 days and a friend of mine took him. I could not believe a person would leave a dog like that on my porch (they put a letter in my mailbox). But a few years later a person actually put a dog in my car at night (I think they thought the dog was mine but was the neighbor's) and I put my hand in the backseat and felt something fuzzy, screamed, jumped out of the car and found a cute doggy laying on the floor of my car.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I don't want to assume, I want to know why. That's not why I get a dog "why not" I have to like the breed traits and characteristics, the history and purpose of the breed has to make sense for my ability to manage the dog, then I look at the individual dog to see if it's a match for me. I can explain exactly how I come to the choices of dogs I have or like, and want to know why someone would choose that particular type of dog. The OP can choose to ignore that kind of question, but it's one that is/should be asked daily on this board for anyone considering a GSD as well (or any other dog breed or mix). That is a dog that to me, is on a different part of the spectrum from the others listed, and I am curious as to what makes that breed appealing to someone.


Ooooooh k. I see.. I read it as "what a poor choice, why is ot even here" sorry for the misunderstanding. My "why not" wasnt why jot as in careless.. I genuinely meant why would you not.. but that was based off the previous understanding off your comment. 

For me it was for a few reasons. To start.. I liked the general temperment.. which is stable but a very strong protection instinct.. at the time I was a female living by myself and wanted another dog with that instinct.. one that was stable enough to be taken everywhere but was still aloof. I had a GSD already and wanted a different breed. I love their look to be honest and I liked the lower energy while still not being english bull dog lazy. I was also wanted to train her with SAR so that drive still needed to be there. After research.. the breed seemed ideal for me and my situation and like a perfect fit for my lifestyle. 

That was me and my decision making process. I also spent HOURS talking to breeders about the breed to make sure I wasnt just going off an idea. Wasnt a simple "oh pretty! I want" a lot of thought went into it.

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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> I have owned a Boerboel (BB) and am part of a BB rescue organization. They are an amazing breed if you get from a good breeder. That, as with most breeds, is the absolute key.. They are awesome dogs, great temperament when you get a good breeder. They are good with family. Much more energy than the English Mastiff, but still have an off switch inside. Miss Athena was an absolute cuddle bug too! I did have a few issues with her, but that I think was due to more of me training her than anything. Training is more of a negotiation with them, as far as I'm concerned. Lol.. where the GSD is "what can I do for you" I found BB's are more "what will you do for me if I sit.." Lol.
> 
> Beautiful dogs and I am happy that they are not as popular as some breeds.. kinda helps save them a bit.


Thank you! That's very helpful  Were they good with other dogs?






JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Shar Pei - friends had one and he was extremely aloof, protective and was lucky to have good (but to me, completely unpettable - not nice to the touch) skin. I have seen them at the vet office with horrible issues, and distraught owners.
> Boerboel - why is this on the list? Just wondering what people would want them for?
> Newfoundland - good breeders, nice dogs. I would want to have them around some water if possible so they could enjoy that. So slow, and don't seem to get their body size - there were always a bunch in obedience classes I went to and during those figure 8 exercises they could not stay in their own space - just wandering, no big deal...or maybe it was just their owners!
> Leonberger - same, good breeders, nice dogs. Spent a few therapy classes with a couple and they were nice. They were young, and I didn't meet that breeder's older dogs so not sure how well they maintained that pleasantness. This website is blunt and I like it: Leonbergers: What's Good About 'Em? What's Bad About 'Em? and then their list of health issues: http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/dog-breeds/leonberger compared with.... http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/dog-breeds/german-shepherd-dog
> ...


Thank you Jean! I am kind of rethinking the Shar pei now, the fur doesn't sound very nice and they aren't as healthy as I thought after doing a bit more research and hearing from everyone here.

Berners sound like nice dogs but I do not like that coat color on any dog  I never really have liked that coat pattern.

The boerboel sounded like something I would want from the Wikipedia page, they look similar to English mastiffs (my dream dog if they didn't have so many health issues...). They are a guardian breed, I like that, and it said they have a very stable temperament and love their families. But that's why I asked about them here can't just go off of Wikipedia  

Thanks for the links!







Freestep said:


> I don't think any of the breeds on your list are particularly healthy breeds. I once spoke to a Dogue owner who said that if you get a Dogue, get a pet insurance policy for him because you WILL need it. Shar Pei are known for skin and ear problems. Newfs and Leonbergers have a short life span. I don't know much about the Boerboel but from everything I've heard about them, they don't sound like a good choice for a beginner.


I'm getting that feeling too. I am a bit discouraged since it doesn't look like any of the giant breeds I looked at are very healthy at all. Do you know of any?







Chip18 said:


> If you like dogs with smoochy faces how is it you skipped Boxers? To me a Boxer is a much less intense version of a Boerboel.
> 
> There are American Boxers and Euros, the Euros are slightly bulkier , look like small Bull Mastiffs and have a temperament closer to the GSD. The American Boxers are slightly smaller and have a much higher "goofiness" factor!
> 
> ...


A boxer is very cute! All of the cancer stuff and health issues scared me off, I don't think I've found any kind of smooshed faced dog that is very healthy at all!







LoveDogs said:


> Someone left a shar pei at my door years ago, chained to the railing on my porch. The pup was MAYBE 10-12 weeks old at the time. I did not like the dog (only dog I never liked), I kept him 2 days and a friend of mine took him. I could not believe a person would leave a dog like that on my porch (they put a letter in my mailbox). But a few years later a person actually put a dog in my car at night (I think they thought the dog was mine but was the neighbor's) and I put my hand in the backseat and felt something fuzzy, screamed, jumped out of the car and found a cute doggy laying on the floor of my car.


Oh wow!! They must know you would take good care of them, pretty soon you'll wake up to a basket full of puppies by the door lol


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> My experience with a Boerbel is the same. Many of us knew the puppy as it was growing up and played with it and everything but now I don't even like to go to that farm because all that is between me and that dog is a fence. He has torn up several intruders for the farmer. He killed a puppy.
> 
> I thought the sharpei was a medium sized dog. I first met them at my first job out of college (1977) at the UGA Vet School ....... a lot of referrals for skin problems and we were all going "ugh why would anyone breed this thing"


Ah, I see, thank you  The shar pei's coat doesn't sound very nice I may have to cross them off the list. That's a shame, I really love their wrinkles!






holland said:


> I know nothing about boerboels-have never met one- shar peis-I have met a lot of them-was at a shar pei event-to me they have no personality-except for one I met and I don't think he was the typical shar pei-they are low energy and low drive-
> 
> I think Newf/Leos and dogues all have about the same lifespan- dogues - do have cool personalities- my pick would be a newf or a leo-just love their temperments


That's what I want... A low energy dog, preferably mastiff size but I'd be willing to take a dog as low as 50lbs if it would be the right fit. 

Newfs and Leos sound so sweet, I would really like one if I could get a good 10-12 years with one


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Sarah~ said:


> I'm getting that feeling too. I am a bit discouraged since it doesn't look like any of the giant breeds I looked at are very healthy at all. Do you know of any?


 Of the giant breeds, it seems that the livestock guardians (Great Pyrenees, Anatolian Shepherd, Akbash Dog, etc) have the longest life spans and fewest health problems. They have a distinct temperament and do not generally do well as city/suburban dogs, however. They are amazing, wonderful dogs, but like to have a lot of space around them and seem to develop behavior problems when confined. So if you live in the country or have acreage, you may want to take a look at these breeds.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I had one newfie - they are pretty high maintenance in terms of the grooming. They need to be brushed a lot or they mat very easily. They are laid back, sweet dogs, but there are a lot of health issues. I wouldn't get another. Ours lived to 13 but she tore both of her cruciate ligaments when she was middle aged (at different times). Even with surgery she really had a hard time getting around. The most well known breeder is/was Pouch Cove here in NJ. Mine came from Council Cup in PA.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

phgsd said:


> I had one newfie - they are pretty high maintenance in terms of the grooming. They need to be brushed a lot or they mat very easily.


 Boy is that true. I don't do giant breeds anymore, but every Newfie I have ever seen has been a walking pile of mats. They just have so much hair, and the drooling combined with a tendency to wallow in puddles leaves them with a constantly wet, mildewy coat. And the smell is chronic. They tend toward ear problems as well. Very sweet dogs, but I would never own one--not in this climate, anyway. If I did own one I would want to shave it short year-round. Long, thick hair and loose, wrinkly skin is a terrible combination.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Oh yes I forgot about the drool! YUCK. Picture the Beethoven movie - where he shakes his head and the drool goes everywhere. That really happens. And the showline newfs are bred to be more extreme so they have droopier eyes and lips. But pet line newfies have a completely different coat/look so would not be successful in the show ring. 

And the shedding is awful. More constant than the GSD. And the hair is very fine and gets into everything. Do you like dog hair in your butter? Don't ask me how her hair got in the fridge but it did LOL


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

What about a bullmastiff? From a good breeder they often live until 10ish at least and are much easier to handle than a boerboel but with a similar look. 
If you're looking for a dog to show in conformation I would consider how many of that breed are out there. CKC recognizes less breeds than AKC but you would be travelling very far to be able to show a boerboel here. Also keep in mind your grooming experience, a friend of mine is quite active in the show ring with two newfs and they are a lot of work for her to prepare. 
I love leonbergers. Big, squishy, soft coloured mush balls. I would take one over a newf any day. They're a little brighter, a little less drooly imo. 
Another friend of mine has a few dogue du bordeauxs and has produced a few litters. She feeds raw and has zero health problems and her oldest dogs are starting to get up in age (6-8) and are still healthy. I`ve found this breed to have exploded in popularity in the last few years and I have met a lot with health and temperament issues. We had a 6 month old puppy in the store the other day and although she seemed mighty small for her age she was an absolute doll! So cute!
I would never purchase a shar pei. They all seem to have either health of temperament issues. The few I`ve met who have been healthy and normal were all show dogs and they all had bald spots and callouses on their legs which bothered me. I guess I`m used to hairy gsds. 
Good luck in your search!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

holland said:


> boxers are not low energy-they are cool dogs though



True that! He listed Boerboel that's why I suggested a Boxer.

No doubt on the health issues however, I saw the life expectations of a GSD and I was stunned! 

Still I'll get another Boxer anyway, if you've had one you understand the appeal.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Freestep said:


> Of the giant breeds, it seems that the livestock guardians (Great Pyrenees, Anatolian Shepherd, Akbash Dog, etc) have the longest life spans and fewest health problems. They have a distinct temperament and do not generally do well as city/suburban dogs, however. They are amazing, wonderful dogs, but like to have a lot of space around them and seem to develop behavior problems when confined. So if you live in the country or have acreage, you may want to take a look at these breeds.


On the crazy end of the freakishly big scale I would add a Tibetan Mastiff! Freaking huge, Guardian breed don't know if any but it's a Mastiff probably not a good beginner Mastiff however.


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

I met a Boerboel/Mastiff mix and he was a great looking dog. His calm demeanor might make him seem really laid back, but he was very watchful of his environment!

This was not a dog barking ferociously at the fence, but a quiet, observant animal that you wouldn't want to underestimate. 

I love big dogs and am seldom uncomfortable around any of the so called "dangerous breeds", but this dog gave me the chills!

He might have been a big sweetheart overall, but his intimidation factor was off the charts!!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

MyHans-someBoy said:


> I met a Boerboel/Mastiff mix and he was a great looking dog. His calm demeanor might make him seem really laid back, but he was very watchful of his environment!
> 
> This was not a dog barking ferociously at the fence, but a quiet, observant animal that you wouldn't want to underestimate.
> 
> ...


Ha! Yes... I will say.. even having owned one.. the intimidation factor is there.. always. I would not have wanted to approach Athena had I not known her.. she always just had a look.. you'd never know she just wanted to lick your face and snuggle! I did have some issues with her in the end but I believe after further thought, it was a multiple of things to include my training and lack of socialization.



Sarah~ said:


> Thank you! That's very helpful  Were they good with other dogs?


Yes, like any other dog.. socialization is the key. She went to the dog park and did fine and did wonderful with Titan. My neighbors used to also come over during the day while I was at work (my request) and take her to play with their Danes and Peekapoos.. and she always had a great time.


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

Thinking back over all of the years and trips to Petsmart and those type of stores where you tend to see a lot of different breeds, there has been only one breed that I politely asked if I could pet-and was told "No, you better not" and it was a Shar pei.

I was getting ready to go down an aisle and the dog and her (male) owner were right in front of me. When I asked if I could pet...he turned to me and she immediately put herself between us, kind of catty corner, which pretty much blocked me from the whole aisle, lol. She just laid down and looked up at me like "Okay, your move"  

I told him that I completely understood, that he had a beautiful dog and found another less guarded aisle to shop in. 

That has been my only (almost) interaction with a Shar pei, so I don't want to paint an unfair picture of them. 

I had only seen them in pictures and was kind of thrilled to see one in person that I might get to pet.

Oh, well...




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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Mikelia said:


> What about a bullmastiff? From a good breeder they often live until 10ish at least and are much easier to handle than a boerboel but with a similar look.
> If you're looking for a dog to show in conformation I would consider how many of that breed are out there. CKC recognizes less breeds than AKC but you would be travelling very far to be able to show a boerboel here. Also keep in mind your grooming experience, a friend of mine is quite active in the show ring with two newfs and they are a lot of work for her to prepare.
> I love leonbergers. Big, squishy, soft coloured mush balls. I would take one over a newf any day. They're a little brighter, a little less drooly imo.
> Another friend of mine has a few dogue du bordeauxs and has produced a few litters. She feeds raw and has zero health problems and her oldest dogs are starting to get up in age (6-8) and are still healthy. I`ve found this breed to have exploded in popularity in the last few years and I have met a lot with health and temperament issues. We had a 6 month old puppy in the store the other day and although she seemed mighty small for her age she was an absolute doll! So cute!
> ...


Actually after researching, comparing, and looking at photos all day I am beginning to consider a bullmastiff. They seem to look and act a lot like English mastiffs, which is what I really want, just with a longer lifespan. 

I have decided against a shar pei because of the fur, and against a dogue because of the health.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Of the giant breeds, it seems that the livestock guardians (Great Pyrenees, Anatolian Shepherd, Akbash Dog, etc) have the longest life spans and fewest health problems. They have a distinct temperament and do not generally do well as city/suburban dogs, however. They are amazing, wonderful dogs, but like to have a lot of space around them and seem to develop behavior problems when confined. So if you live in the country or have acreage, you may want to take a look at these breeds.


I have a house with a medium sized yard... I don't think they would be happy here. Thank you for the suggestion, they do look like great dogs!







Freestep said:


> Boy is that true. I don't do giant breeds anymore, but every Newfie I have ever seen has been a walking pile of mats. They just have so much hair, and the drooling combined with a tendency to wallow in puddles leaves them with a constantly wet, mildewy coat. And the smell is chronic. They tend toward ear problems as well. Very sweet dogs, but I would never own one--not in this climate, anyway. If I did own one I would want to shave it short year-round. Long, thick hair and loose, wrinkly skin is a terrible combination.





Oh, yuck... I don't know if I want a Newf now...




Chip18 said:


> True that! He listed Boerboel that's why I suggested a Boxer.
> 
> No doubt on the health issues however, I saw the life expectations of a GSD and I was stunned!
> 
> Still I'll get another Boxer anyway, if you've had one you understand the appeal.


I am a she  Boxers have the look, but the health and energy do not seem like what I am looking for. I spent a lot of time looking at their photos today, very handsome dogs!







Chip18 said:


> On the crazy end of the freakishly big scale I would add a Tibetan Mastiff! Freaking huge, Guardian breed don't know if any but it's a Mastiff probably not a good beginner Mastiff however.





Yikes, the mane! Don't know if I like that lol!




MyHans-someBoy said:


> I met a Boerboel/Mastiff mix and he was a great looking dog. His calm demeanor might make him seem really laid back, but he was very watchful of his environment!
> 
> This was not a dog barking ferociously at the fence, but a quiet, observant animal that you wouldn't want to underestimate.
> 
> ...



I love dogs with that look! People tell me Eko gives them a very intense look, I love it!






wyoung2153 said:


> Ha! Yes... I will say.. even having owned one.. the intimidation factor is there.. always. I would not have wanted to approach Athena had I not known her.. she always just had a look.. you'd never know she just wanted to lick your face and snuggle! I did have some issues with her in the end but I believe after further thought, it was a multiple of things to include my training and lack of socialization.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, like any other dog.. socialization is the key. She went to the dog park and did fine and did wonderful with Titan. My neighbors used to also come over during the day while I was at work (my request) and take her to play with their Danes and Peekapoos.. and she always had a great time.


They are still up there on my list  Maybe a bit higher energy than what I want but we will have to see, I'm still reading up about them.

Thank you everyone  You guys are helping a lot, sorry if I seem so picky. I am being so particular about every little thing! 

The shorter coated Saint Bernards interested me a little bit, and if Berners were just black and white instead of black, white and tan I'd really like those too!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If it weren't for the drool I would consider a Bullmastiff for myself at some point. They are moderate in everything. If you are consistent and willing to learn they will be OK for a beginner. All BMs I have met have been great, gentle dogs and at the same time guarders as well. Their look should do enough to a stranger with the wrong intentions. But do you research to find a good breeder. Portland, OR has a good rescue and breeder (at least a few years ago). You can PM me if you want more info.
Exciting to have so many options and to have time to shop around.
Be careful not to go just for the looks. Boerboels look deceivingly cute. Give me any Pitbull over a Boerboel.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

If you are looking at getting a Bullmastiff please go through a VERY reputable breeder, a couple of years ago my cousin was severely mauled by a Bullmastiff.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MyHans-someBoy said:


> I was getting ready to go down an aisle and the dog and her (male) owner were right in front of me. When I asked if I could pet...he turned to me and she immediately put herself between us, kind of catty corner, which pretty much blocked me from the whole aisle, lol. She just laid down and looked up at me like "Okay, your move"
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I have no use for Shar Pei's myself but, just addressing this point, the dog between you and the Guardian is wrong the dog's making the decision not the owner! "They should have been between you and the dog.

Hope it worked out for them, not so sure it did in the long run?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

If I was serious about showing, I'd get a young adult from a show breeder. That way, you're making sure that the dog doesn't have any issues that would keep them out of the ring. For example, with a GSD the puppy might grow up to have soft ears or something else that you won't know until its older. I can't advise you on your breed choices, since I only know GSDs firsthand. Are there any breeders near you that you can talk to about their dogs?


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> If it weren't for the drool I would consider a Bullmastiff for myself at some point. They are moderate in everything. If you are consistent and willing to learn they will be OK for a beginner. All BMs I have met have been great, gentle dogs and at the same time guarders as well. Their look should do enough to a stranger with the wrong intentions. But do you research to find a good breeder. Portland, OR has a good rescue and breeder (at least a few years ago). You can PM me if you want more info.
> Exciting to have so many options and to have time to shop around.
> Be careful not to go just for the looks. Boerboels look deceivingly cute. Give me any Pitbull over a Boerboel.


Yes I am trying not to go for looks... bullmastiffs are not exactly my first choice but they have a similar look to what I want. 

The dog I really, really want (English Mastiff), if I could find a great breeder with dogs that live ~10 years I would go for it:









Boerboel:









Bullmastiff:









They all look very similar, so either of the three would be ok. I just like a lot of jowl on my dogs lol the bullmastiff has the tightest lips and I don't like that so much. But if it is the right fit I would be able to look past it. 

It is exciting! I am trying to give myself enough time to finish school, settle in to a new job, save a good amount of money for the vet, etc, as well as learn about showing and the dog I will end up getting. Maybe go to some shows and meet the dogs. I will definitely send you a message about that breeder  



LaRen616 said:


> If you are looking at getting a Bullmastiff please go through a VERY reputable breeder, a couple of years ago my cousin was severely mauled by a Bullmastiff.


Wow, really? I was reading that they are pretty mild-mannered. Actually I've read that about pretty much all of the breeds I'm considering. I do plan to go through a GREAT breeder, once I settle on a breed I'm going to look at the lines and the breeders producing the best dogs. Another reason I'm starting so early, I want the *BEST* dog from the best breeder available to me. 



Blanketback said:


> If I was serious about showing, I'd get a young adult from a show breeder. That way, you're making sure that the dog doesn't have any issues that would keep them out of the ring. For example, with a GSD the puppy might grow up to have soft ears or something else that you won't know until its older. I can't advise you on your breed choices, since I only know GSDs firsthand. Are there any breeders near you that you can talk to about their dogs?


I'm not sure, I am looking around, I've heard of a breeder in Philadelphia, now Oregon, kind of scattered all over the place. I just got some info about a Mastiff forum, I'm going to look around there to see what people say and if they know some good breeders of either of these breeds close to me or willing to talk to me through e-mail or over the phone. That's good advice about getting an older dog, I didn't think of that!


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Sarah~ said:


> Wow, really? I was reading that they are pretty mild-mannered. Actually I've read that about pretty much all of the breeds I'm considering. I do plan to go through a GREAT breeder, once I settle on a breed I'm going to look at the lines and the breeders producing the best dogs. Another reason I'm starting so early, I want the *BEST* dog from the best breeder available to me.


A *well-bred and well-socialized* dog of some of these breeds will be rather mild-mannered. I still feel that the Boerboel is a much more intense dog than you are looking for. It's great that you're doing your research so early as it will help you avoid those exact pitfalls. As someone else said, if you're very serious about conformation, a young adult would probably be best. While the pedigree can give you a good idea of the success of that line, it can be a bit disappointing to get a dog from a very impressive line, raise it from a puppy, and have a fault show up when it is 8 months to a year and realize you either can't compete or will only be able to compete with extreme difficulty (depending on the fault). Sorry I don't know more about conformation besides that. I don't do it myself, but I am the rant box for a couple friends who have done conformation for most of their lives.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> Wow, really? I was reading that they are pretty mild-mannered. Actually I've read that about pretty much all of the breeds I'm considering. I do plan to go through a GREAT breeder, once I settle on a breed I'm going to look at the lines and the breeders producing the best dogs. Another reason I'm starting so early, I want the *BEST* dog from the best breeder available to me.


Yes, it was a TERRIBLE attack. 

This is my thread on it.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/chat-room/161830-tears-right-now.html


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Pax8 said:


> A *well-bred and well-socialized* dog of some of these breeds will be rather mild-mannered. I still feel that the Boerboel is a much more intense dog than you are looking for. It's great that you're doing your research so early as it will help you avoid those exact pitfalls. As someone else said, if you're very serious about conformation, a young adult would probably be best. While the pedigree can give you a good idea of the success of that line, it can be a bit disappointing to get a dog from a very impressive line, raise it from a puppy, and have a fault show up when it is 8 months to a year and realize you either can't compete or will only be able to compete with extreme difficulty (depending on the fault). Sorry I don't know more about conformation besides that. I don't do it myself, but I am the rant box for a couple friends who have done conformation for most of their lives.


That's helpful, thank you  I have been looking at the boerboel breeder sites and pictures a few people have sent me... The ones I saw last not looked like mastiff sized pit bulls and were honestly a bit frightening  I know they don't all look like that but it was a bit eye opening. They do look a bit too much physically for me. I think I will look for an older dog that I will know has great conformation, when I'm ready to buy 






LaRen616 said:


> Yes, it was a TERRIBLE attack.
> 
> This is my thread on it.
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/chat-room/161830-tears-right-now.html


Oh my god, that's horrifying, I'm so glad he is ok! A clear example of the danger of an out of control dog that size. Obviously a dangerous animal, glad he was pts. Thank you for sharing that with me I agree it's so important to socialize these giant dogs so these things don't happen, I plan on taking the dog everywhere I can. Obedience classes, stores, parks, having lots of family, friends and children over.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Why not a Great Dane?

It's a leggier version of the other mastiffs you've mentioned. 

Pluses - less grooming, which IMHO would be good for a beginner in show, it's one less thing to worry about and learn while getting your feet wet in the show ring.

More common so you'll have more good show breeders to select from.

Many beautiful coat colors that are within breed standard.

Well cared for healthy GDs can live to 10 or more.

The well bred GDs I have met were social and sweet, got along with other dogs and yet still can be protective (again good dog, from a good breeder with good training). 

Check out this lovely dog:












And look at this face....


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Ooooo and if you want to think about staying large, BUT switching gears away from mastiff types, still going with something more exotic how about one of the larger sight hounds like Irish Wolfhound?


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Why not a Great Dane?
> 
> It's a leggier version of the other mastiffs you've mentioned.
> 
> ...


Awwwwwwwwwww.... The bottom picture is so sweet. And the first picture is awesome! Such handsome dogs. My boyfriend's cousin has one, she is SUPER high energy, and runs around in circles around people when he lets her out. That's the only thing that makes me not want one so much, otherwise they sound great!! Is his great Dane out of the ordinary or are they all pretty high energy for a giant breed?






Gwenhwyfair said:


> Ooooo and if you want to think about staying large, BUT switching gears away from mastiff types, still going with something more exotic how about one of the larger sight hounds like Irish Wolfhound?


WHOA... That's a tall dog! He looks like he's 2 of me, I'm only 5' 2" lol!! They look like huge terriers, I think its the wiry coat that makes me think of one. They look nice, I was hoping to stay in the mastiff group, though. Something about the saggy face and sour expression, lol.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

The Danes I've been around haven't been hectic or super high energy all day long type dogs. 

It probably depends on the dog and if they are getting enough exercise and mental stimulation too. 

I think if I ever went with a mastiff type, it'll be a Great Dane. 

I love the balance of brawn and elegance they bring to the table.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Great Danes are playful and they do have energy but not crazy energy. Your GSD and Pitbull will have more energy than a GD.

I love Great Danes, I knew a lady that had 5 black ones, they were amazing, gorgeous, sweet dogs. :wub:


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I do love Danes too... it's on my list. They are playful without over the top energy.. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Now it's between English mastiff and Great Dane lol. Bullmastiffs and Boerboels have so much conflicting info, some say they are sweet and mellow, some say they are aggressive and have a sharp temperament. Honestly I like all 4 but I am hoping for and easy step into owning mastiffs, maybe after I own a GD or EM I can get a Bullmastiff or Boerboel, so I can be better prepared to handle dogs taller and heavier than me.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Gotta say I love the look of the Boerboels but I have to have another Boxer.  You didn't mention sex but single female household (the dogs) would be best.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Not sure which sex I want. Eko is dog aggressive but does very well with puppies and has never attacked Xena, she grew up with him. Xena is very rough and bullheaded and might tick off a dominant female dog. But they will both be older, better trained, and hopefully more mellow by the time I'm ready. I know I'll want a more submissive dog but not sure if I want a female to make sure Eko will accept the new dog or male so the new dog will tolerate Xena's rambunctious-ness.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Conflicts between males "if they happen" are much easier to deal with than female female aggression!
My single female dog slot is reserved for a Boxer,

It can be done multi female dog household but it is not be taken lightly!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Chip18 said:


> Conflicts between males "if they happen" are much easier to deal with than female female aggression!


:thumbup:

OP I would get another male if I were you.

I wouldn't want to break up a fight between 2 powerful females.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Sounds like a good plan! Get your feet wet first with a breed you can handle comfortably.

IMO the next step would be to go to shows where you know there will be Danes and EMs to check them out in person. At larger shows hopefully you get to see several dogs of each breed, or if you're lucky enough, a speciality show close by is great too.

I've been to a few AKC shows and have found *most* breeders love to talk about their breed and dogs. It will help you get a more 'hands on feel' for the dogs. Make some connections too. 







Sarah~ said:


> Now it's between English mastiff and Great Dane lol. Bullmastiffs and Boerboels have so much conflicting info, some say they are sweet and mellow, some say they are aggressive and have a sharp temperament. Honestly I like all 4 but I am hoping for and easy step into owning mastiffs, maybe after I own a GD or EM I can get a Bullmastiff or Boerboel, so I can be better prepared to handle dogs taller and heavier than me.


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