# Police shoot and kill wandering dog.



## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

This isn't about a GSD but it really scares me since GSDs are a "bully" breed too.

In my hometown of Erie, PA, the local police shot a wandering Rottweiler four times and killed it. The police say it charged them. The witnessing neighbor wrote a statement saying the dog was just wandering around not bothering anyone and the police shot it the minute they saw it. 

They also left the body on the street for trash pickup. From what I've read, owner never even got to claim the body, it was put into a barrel and discarded. 

I know the owner, she is a huge animal lover and all the comments so far are that the dog was very friendly. 

This is not the first time the police have shot and killed dogs with out much investigation.


What are your thoughts on it ? What if my shepherds ever got loose ? This is scary. Something tells me they wouldn't have shot if it was a golden. 


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I just started this thread today. http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/chat-room/418857-police-called-vicious-pit-bull.html
My story has a totally different "HAPPY" outcome.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Wish I could say the same  When I was twelve / thirteen-ish the same department shot and killed an additional three rottis. Maybe it is my area. 


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

when these things go down it is always bash police and the dog was an angel just out polishing its halo for the day
while all that could be true rottweilers can be very aggressive and it would not surprise me if the police were quite justified in the shooting

either way if you let your dog run all over creation whether by accident or on purpose you are putting it at risk for being shot
it seems to me these days nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions but would rather blame someone else when disaster inevitably strikes

as for gsds being a bully breed you lost me there
bully breeds generally consist of pit bulls and other terriers and sometimes mastiffs 
but i have never seen a gsd called a bull breed


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mocha said:


> This isn't about a GSD but it really scares me since GSDs are a "bully" breed too.
> 
> In my hometown of Erie, PA, the local police shot a wandering Rottweiler four times and killed it. The police say it charged them. The witnessing neighbor wrote a statement saying the dog was just wandering around not bothering anyone and the police shot it the minute they saw it.
> 
> ...


German shepherds are NOT a bully breed. Sorry, but bullys are dogs that have characteristics of bull dogs. GSDs do NOT have characteristics of bull dogs. 

Rottweilers and German Shepherds are both large, formidable German working/herding dog breeds. So they do have something in common. 

If only your friend loved her dog enough to keep it properly contained. 

Frankly, if you believe the cops will shoot your dog, then maybe you'll be a teensy bit more careful and ensure they don't just "get loose." Owners of this breed can't afford to just let their dogs get loose. If the cops come into your house or secure yard and shoot your dog, then I will be kicking and screaming with you (so long as you aren't cooking meth or anything like that). But, if the cops kill a dog on the street that isn't under the control of an owner, well, I just figure tough beans, another owner failed her dog. It doesn't matter how sweet your 110 pound guard dog is. Doesn't matter what a marshmallow your 75 pound GSD is. If you let it out to roam the neighborhood and it dies, your fault, whether it is struck and killed by a speeding car, or shot by cops, or killed by hunters, or whatever. 

We have a large, formidable dog breed. You don't take a gun and leave it out on the sidewalk. Don't leave your dog to roam around and get itself shot and killed. It is infuriating. Don't let that happen. 

Too bad your friend didn't love her dog enough to keep it contained properly. Dogs have to pay for our carelessness too often.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

I'm talking in the literal sense of "bully", the ways in which most insurance companies and some rescues categorize them by aggressive tendencies (Rottis Pitts Shepherds Akitas Dobermans, etc). 


...A list I run into far too often while I'm moving so much.

I have little young nephews at my house 24/7. If for some god awful reason they accidentally let my dog out and for once in her/his life they decide to explore and an officer decides to shoot it to death (excessively) because he/she so much as looked at him, and then allowed the trash truck to dump the body and I only had notice by finding my shed full of blood and a collar remain shot off, I would hope I wouldn't get responses such as "you should have loved your dog enough to keep it contained".


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Obviously that's my biggest fear. My family doesn't take it as such a serious issue, even after my nephew let my female out and she wandered across the street and was hit by a car when I wasn't home. 

Unfortunately they can't come to work with me. You'd think I could trust my own dogs at my own house with my own family but apparently that is not the case and I don't think someone can just be blamed "for not caring enough to contain the dog". 

Accidents happen, it isn't a fact of caring enough. 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mocha said:


> I'm talking in the literal sense of "bully", the ways in which most insurance companies and some rescues categorize them by aggressive tendencies (Rottis Pitts Shepherds Akitas Dobermans, etc).
> 
> 
> ...A list I run into far too often while I'm moving so much.
> ...


Too many dogs are running around loose, and most of them are not on their first voyage. Sorry. 

If you nephews are old enough to work the door locks then they are old enough to learn not to leave the dog out. If your nephews are not old enough to learn that, then the dog should be crated or with you, and not unsupervised with your nephews. If you have a fenced yard, train the dogs to only go out the door that leads to the fenced yard. 

Yupp, this is a huge pet peeve of mine. People think that cops suck and are out to shoot dogs. But they do not look at their dog and think, someone might be afraid of this huge dog. We don't have to just worry about cops shooting our dogs, but people carry handguns too. People with CCPs, might just shoot your dog if it is running around loose out there. Hunters, for sure might kill your dog if it is running loose, and definitely the cars on the road.

The bull mastiff that just killed that 13 year old the other day, been out and menacing children before it decided to kill one. If you have to have a large, formidable dog, do your part, and keep it contained.


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## MatildaTheMalevolent (Sep 16, 2013)

I know what you mean Mocha. My thoughts; it's sad & pisses me off. Some cops are indeed jerks, some are noble. It's hard knowing what took place. It's just a shame


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

selzer said:


> Too many dogs are running around loose, and most of them are not on their first voyage. Sorry.
> 
> If you nephews are old enough to work the door locks then they are old enough to learn not to leave the dog out. If your nephews are not old enough to learn that, then the dog should be crated or with you, and not unsupervised with your nephews. If you have a fenced yard, train the dogs to only go out the door that leads to the fenced yard.
> 
> ...


They're very young. And my dogs hardly leave the yard without me. It happened on one freak accident when a slip handle was hit by the young boy while another person was walking their dog on the other side. 

This department is constantly criticized for abuse of power not only on dogs but also on people. My boyfriend refuses to test for them even though they are hiring before the other department near us due to the rumors. We actually argued about before because I never believed it, always thought all cops are great people. No, not the case. When witnesses have conflicting stories than with cops, witnesses that neither knew the owner or the dog and therefor are unbiased, then I'm going to question it and I'm sorry if it seems like I'm quick to blame the cops but no, not the case here. 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yeah, if you came on and said your nephews left the door open and your dog got lost and some cop shot it. I would say, "I am so sorry for your loss." There is just no point in beating someone who already had a tough lesson and is in pain. No point in kicking someone when they are down. 

But that is not what you came on to say. Before it happens, the attitude, what if my dogs get loose... Well, don't let it happen. If you cannot keep your dogs safe, then adjust how you are doing things. 

Shepherd owners should be downright ticked off when people are not careful with their large formidable dog breeds. Homeowner's insurance, and rentals that don't allow dogs. If people are not careful with these dogs, some places on this crazy planet will say, people can't own them. Other places will make owning them so expensive that only the very wealthy will be able to. 

We have to protect our breed. The way to do that is to keep them safe.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

MatildaTheMalevolent said:


> I know what you mean Mocha. My thoughts; it's sad & pisses me off. Some cops are indeed jerks, some are noble. It's hard knowing what took place. It's just a shame


It's one of those things you just can't stop wondering about. I've met some great cops at work who help me with burglars. I've met some who act like its SUCH a chore. Woof I guess I just have to let it go


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mocha said:


> They're very young. And my dogs hardly leave the yard without me. It happened on one freak accident when a slip handle was hit by the young boy while another person was walking their dog on the other side.
> 
> This department is constantly criticized for abuse of power not only on dogs but also on people. My boyfriend refuses to test for them even though they are hiring before the other department near us due to the rumors. We actually argued about before because I never believed it, always thought all cops are great people. No, not the case. When witnesses have conflicting stories than with cops, witnesses that neither knew the owner or the dog and therefor are unbiased, then I'm going to question it and I'm sorry if it seems like I'm quick to blame the cops but no, not the case here.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but if your friend's dog was not out running loose it would not be dead right now. 

We can always find someone to blame other than ourselves. It is awful to blame ourselves. But blaming the cops means that we will get another dog and not protect it, because it wasn't our fault. The next one might get run over in the road. The next one might get picked up by a nasty serial killer in training. Some teenagers, years ago got a hold of a GSD puppy and strung it up and beat it to death with ball bats. 

You cannot prevent insane/criminal people from committing crimes. Cops can't. All they can do is respond once a crime is committed. Catching a perpetrator may make you feel better, but I will do my best to prevent my dogs from meeting with the perpetrator in the first place. 

Maybe the cop shouldn't have killed the dog -- that is a question. But if the dog wasn't running loose it would be alive right now. That is pretty much a certainty. 

We can blame the cops, and we can march on city hall, and we can try to force cops to have more training, and the whole nine yards, BUT, we CAN keep our own dogs safe -- that is the easy answer.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

*I'm talking in the literal sense of "bully",*

gsds are not literally bullies
with insurance and rent restrictions they state bully breeds
then go on to say gsds if they are included but they do not lump them all together

i think you mean they are one of the more commonly restricted breeds
but that does not make them bullies
and in fact some places rent to gsds and other larger breeds while restricting bullies
many towns and cities have restrictions similar while exempting gsds

as selzer said it should make u angry at irresponsible owners that give these breeds such horrid reputations that they are banned and restricted and often shot on site

dogs are always friendly to their owners 
alone and off their turf who knows?


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

This seems all too common. There must be some other non-lethal alternatives to this. Would it asking too much for the police to carry one of those long poles with the noose on it and just capture the dog, a spray or taser?

I know one officer that loves GSDs and got a small scratch from the dog as he was approaching someone's door, the GSD was just trying to protect, the officer knew it and never did anything about it. Others have told me if a dog is off leash and heading towards them they will shoot.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Mocha said:


> I'm talking in the literal sense of "bully", the ways in which most insurance companies and some rescues categorize them by aggressive tendencies (Rottis Pitts Shepherds Akitas Dobermans, etc).
> 
> 
> ...A list I run into far too often while I'm moving so much.
> ...


 Yes I totally get what you are saying. We get some really strong wind storms, what if one day I thoroughly did not latch the door and the wind blew it open and my dog got out? Something like this happened to our old neighbor who had a Rottie mix, he was 125lbs. He got out, nobody was home, but we used to babysit him and he loved us so luckily for him he walked down to our condo, we heard a weird noise at the front door and we let him in.


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## d4lilbitz (Dec 30, 2013)

It is ashame about the dog's death. It can all be preventable and starts in the home of the animal. 



my boy diesel said:


> *I'm talking in the literal sense of "bully",*
> 
> as selzer said it should make u angry at irresponsible owners that give these breeds such horrid reputations that they are banned and restricted and often shot on site
> 
> ...


I agree with both you and selzer. I do everything in my power to ensure my dogs are safe when with me and when I'm not with them. 

As far as Homeowner Insurance, I have a perfect example. As a fairly new home owner of one year, I was searching for HOI last April. I called one company in which they asked if I had any dogs. Like most owners, I happily said yes. They went on to ak about my dogs, so I told her all about them. She was most couious about my German Shepherd. I thought she was actually interested because she was a German Shepherd fan. Nope! She said they'd be unable to carry me unless I could find other alternatives for him, meaning give him up. I was outraged. Needless to say, I went with a different company. While I'm not happy about the company's policy, I understand their point of view. While there are great owners who do things to ensure their pets safety, there are those few that ruin it for the majority. In the end, all I can do is my part to ensure my dogs safety for themselves, others who are around them, while being a great representation of the breed's character. To me there is no better comment from a stranger when we are out than, "wow, what a well behaved dog you have!"


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Gretchen said:


> This seems all too common. There must be some other non-lethal alternatives to this. Would it asking too much for the police to carry one of those long poles with the noose on it and just capture the dog, a spray or taser?
> 
> I know one officer that loves GSDs and got a small scratch from the dog as he was approaching someone's door, the GSD was just trying to protect, the officer knew it and never did anything about it. Others have told me if a dog is off leash and heading towards them they will shoot.


One of the complaints with this case actually is why police responded and not animal control. We have full time animal control equipped with both noose poles and tranquilizers. Most of the time, animal control captures the loose dog, returns it to this local rescue where the owner can pick it up the next day (they have weird hours). 






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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Gretchen said:


> Yes I totally get what you are saying. We get some really strong wind storms, what if one day I thoroughly did not latch the door and the wind blew it open and my dog got out? Something like this happened to our old neighbor who had a Rottie mix, he was 125lbs. He got out, nobody was home, but we used to babysit him and he loved us so luckily for him he walked down to our condo, we heard a weird noise at the front door and we let him in.


So scary! A winter storm knocked over a portion of our fence on an unseen side without my brother knowing and let my old dog out a long time ago. It really wasn't his fault yet he felt awful. 

Your neighbors are really lucky to have you! I wish I could say the same here but no one really talks to each other lol. 


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

Geeze they didn't have to leave him dead in the street - that is a bit extreme, in fact the whole thing is extreme!


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

Mocha said:


> This isn't about a GSD but it really scares me since GSDs are a "bully" breed too.
> 
> In my hometown of Erie, PA, the local police shot a wandering Rottweiler four times and killed it. The police say it charged them. The witnessing neighbor wrote a statement saying the dog was just wandering around not bothering anyone and the police shot it the minute they saw it.
> 
> ...


 When I was a little girl (5-7ish) my neighbors across the street had a GSD. He was my buddy!! He'd come over and play and I'd go visit him at his house too. His owners let me walk him around the neighborhood and he was quite comfortable in our home too. I loved this dog! He was SO sweet! And me being a very young and quite petite child, his friendship with me speaks volumes for the breed's demeanor. Most of the time, we played unsupervised and developed our friendship on our own, without adults supervising or directing. That says a LOT about the breed! 

One day, our next-door neighbor was cleaning his boat, or fish or something, but was carrying a wrench around and the GS, who was over playing with me, would growl and bark at him. Soon enough, the sheriff's dept was over with a gun aimed at the dog. I'm not sure if I spoke up and stopped him, or if my parents spoke up and said not to shoot it in front of me... either way, I remember being vocal about it with the officer and explaining who the dog belonged to and that he was my friend and was a very friendly dog. He didn't shoot. 

Even at 5 or 6 years old, I recognized ignorance and the helplessness of animals. I went on to rescue a frog from some boys tossing it in the air and letting it fall to the ground. I barged into their circle and told them all off, lol; kept the frog for months after that. The same for a kitten that some kids were also tossing in the air. I think I even cussed out a grown man for running over a cat that he could have avoided. 

Back to the ignorant shootings - I really think officers should be better trained when it comes to animals. They're trained to deal with or assess the mentally impaired so as not to injure them or create a harmful situation for them as a result of having shot/harmed many unstable people. Why not train to assess animals? Too many are trigger happy.


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

After reading through, I wanted to add some. As the owner of a GSD/mix, even a MIX, he looks more like a GSD than anything he's mixed with, I know how the breed is perceived. When we talk about bully breeds and public perception, we have to understand that the general public includes GSD's. They include Dobermans, Mastiffs, Huskies, Chow Chows, Cane Corsos; lots of breeds that don't have "bull" in the name of the breed. The public perceives any dog that has been used in any aggressive training or guarding to be a bully-breed. There's no point in arguing or correcting that here. Lets try to understand the context and not pick apart someone's words too much  

because I know how the public will perceive my dog, I have to be prepared for stares, snubs, dumb questions, prejudice and judgment, people scooping up their small dogs and sticking their noses in the air. I know that neighbors and police will see my dog as a threat no matter what his true disposition. And I know that my dog WILL protect me and mine no matter what his disposition. I'm better off protecting him from harm by recognizing that. 

I have to agree that people need to keep their dogs contained. As a loving owner, it is MY responsibility. ESPECIALLY since I know how my "bully-breed" will be perceived if out loose.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

i have never had people snub our dog or us because of him
yes gds are in a different category altogether because many police depts employ german shepherds

generally they do not employ pits or rotties or chows as police officers so i believe
officers and in general, people perceive them differently than other breeds 

i know when i have my boy out and about people will tend to come up curiously and i tell them he is nice, go ahead and pet him and they usually do
i often even hear "look that is a police dog" especially from kids! 

for insurance purposes they are sometimes disallowed and you have to shop around for different insurances due to that

maybe we are just lucky in our area
people dont run screaming from my pooch


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> i have never had people snub our dog or us because of him
> yes gds are in a different category altogether because many police depts employ german shepherds
> 
> generally they do not employ pits or rotties or chows as police officers so i believe
> ...


Your experience is probably closer to what I'll actually get. I just meant that I take it as my job to be prepared for the worst and in the worst-case scenario situation, like if something should ever come up. Not that it will happen! Most people, so far, are interested and happy to see him. But, we have a few small dogs near by and small dogs tend to cause trouble. I have one, I love him, but I know he could easily start a fight. But, I digress... 

I think you're right, that we will mostly encounter positive reactions


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Never, ever believe that because your dog is purebred, or a breed used for police work that police and others will think that your dog has to be alright, has to have an owner that cares about it, etc. Because it simply isn't true. Lots of police officers have watched k9s in action and they do know what the dogs are capable of. Your dog is likely to get shot and killed if it is out running loose. That is what we have to believe, because that is the only way we will keep our dogs safe. 

People think their dog is beautiful, gentle, purebred, clean and well-cared for, etc, and they can't seem to get it through their heads that people who do not know your dog, do not think any of those things about your dog. That kind of thinking can get your dog killed. 

Police officers are out there getting paid to deal with some pretty nasty people. They need training that will keep them alive, and help them catch people who are a danger to themselves and others. I do not want them wasting tax money on education to deal with irresponsible owners' dogs. 

Our county can't even afford their k-9 units. I am more willing to support a k-9 unit with tax dollars than training to benefit people who don't bother to ensure their dogs are safe.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Everytime an officer discharges their firearm while on duty, a report has to be created by the officer. If you feel there are far too many officers shooting dogs in your area, file a complaint against the agency. Remember that next time you vote.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It's kind of interesting...

We currently have a thread running about off-leash dogs and how bad they are at parks. The thought process of MOST people is that if they see an off-leash dog, its either aggressive and they'll have to protect their dog from it, or their dog is DA and the off-leash dog (no matter how friendly) is going to start a fight.

And yet...when police officers see a dog, they're supposed to think its friendly and not use any type of force to try and remove the dog from the situation at hand.

I think mostly this has to do with the commentators not being in the situation. Not seeing a rott, GSD, other large breed dog, run at them and think how they would react in that situation.

Here is a picture of my dog that I absolutely adore...take a guess at what he's doing in it...


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

honestly i think they would use force no matter what the breed
if a dog is charging at them
honestly i dont even blame them because if they are taken down by a dog
they are vulnerable to further attacks from humans they are being paid to protect


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> i have never had people snub our dog or us because of him
> yes gds are in a different category altogether because many police depts employ german shepherds
> 
> generally they do not employ pits or rotties or chows as police officers so i believe
> ...


With my four year old sable, people always ask to pet her. For my dark/black (not sure what he is now) sable working line, most people cross the street. I've even over heard someone say to his friend "Now that is a dog you stay away from". Another time someone crossed the street with their three or four month old Dalmatian puppy and said to his friend "That dog would tear him up!".

I don't know if its his dark markings or what. But I agree on the kid thing, the amount of kids who just run full on to my dogs (prolly terrifying their parents) nearly always ask if they catch bad people LOL. 


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> honestly i think they would use force no matter what the breed
> if a dog is charging at them
> honestly i dont even blame them because if they are taken down by a dog
> they are vulnerable to further attacks from humans they are being paid to protect


The controversy at home is that the witnesses say the dog was wandering aimlessly around a house, was not charging anything, and once the police caught eye of it they shot it. It then turned around, ran into the back yard and hid in a shed. The police found it in the shed and shot it three more times until it was dead, then dragged the body to the curb where trash picked it up. 


Heres the photo of the shed and the collar that was shot clean off the dog.

















The controversy is that the dog was neither charging nor running towards them. 


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Where do you live?

I'm just wondering because if the police discharged a weapon near a residential neighborhood, and not for any good reason (like shooting a criminal that is threatening their life) they would have one **** of a fight on their hands. Shooting towards a house, and not actually hitting what they shot at...doesn't sound like any police officer I've ever ran across.

Can you link to an official story about this? This would for sure hit the newspapers or some sort of media in a large city and for sure in a small town...


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Did not read all the posts. 

Every dog occassionally gets lose. If it has never happened to you it may eventually. 

I had my first lose dog in 30 years last May. I failed to insure th door was latched and the wind blew it open. 11 year old (therapy dog) Kayos went on walkabout. She was out for about 60 seconds before I realized she had gone out the door. 

Should she have been shot on sight? Not unless she was threatening which is not likely. Should I have been ticketed? You bet. I was not tho, in fact I ended up calling the police on the neighbor that kicked the stuffing out of her and then threatened to kill all my dogs. He is afraid of my dogs despite his own dogs behaving aggressively quite often.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Most cops do not want to do the paperwork and undergo the scrutiny for having fired their weapon. They will generally wait for animal control to arrive with their catch-poles, if they are available. 

But, if they know that animal control is on another call or on vacation -- happens when you have just one dog warden, then they have to deal with the complaint, given the dog is not actively being aggressive to people. 

If the dispatcher sends them to a location, they have to make a decision. If they see a large formidable dog that is running at large, and they had a report that the dog was menacing toward people, even someone who was intimidated because the dog was out there, and they were too nervous to take their dog out to potty. They may call the police and tell them that there is a loose dog out there, and it is a big Rottweiler, and if they want the cops to come, they may say that it is acting aggressively -- yes they WILL lie. 

So the cops have a dog in front of them, that someone has complained about, and they are not equiped to catch a 120 pound dog -- yes they ALL look larger than they are. They have to decide whether they need to deal with the problem, or wait if that is possible. 

If the cops heard a complaint that said the dog was menacing, and they sat in their car with a call into Animal Control while the dog is wandering around, and suddenly a child runs out of the house and right into that dog. The dog is startled and attacks the child. _Then _what kind of scrutiny will the cops have?

Owners need to control their dogs. If you want to own a GSD, or a Rottweiler, or a Pit bull, or a Cane Corso, or a Presa Canario, or a Dogo Argentia, or a Bull-Mastiff, or a bunch of other large formidable breed, than you have to be even more careful in your containment, because your dog ISN'T a Golden Retriever or and English Setter. 

The dogs have a bad rap, because of irresponsible owners. Therefore, we really can't be ticked off at the cops when an irresponsible owner gets their dog killed.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> Did not read all the posts.
> 
> Every dog occassionally gets lose. If it has never happened to you it may eventually.
> 
> ...


I have had one of my dogs get loose about 15 years ago, and she was lost for 19 days in the dead of winter, so I went crazy doing everything possible, that if they do get out of a kennel, they will still be in a fenced yard. But if the attitude is, "you shouldn't shoot my dog because dogs will be dogs," than your dog's chances of being shot by cops is higher than mine, as my attitude is, "if she gets loose, someone is going to shoot her." 

If your dog is loose, it can get shot or run over, lost, whatever. It is far better to believe that someone will shoot or run over the dog, so you will be that much more careful. 

Fix that latch!

ETA: I got my dog back. I was very fortunate. If hunters had shot her, or if she got run over, or if the cops shot her, then it would have been my fault. Totally.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I also had the same thought that selzer just described...if the police were there, it means someone called to report. They must've said something to get the police out there about the dog acting aggressively because otherwise I don't see why the police would bother. Even if that person lied, they knew that's the only way the police were going to deal with it instead of just calling the local AC to head out there when they finally got the chance.

Like...if I call about my neighbor's terrier thing crossing the street and coming onto my front lawn, the police are probably not going to show up and investigate because that dog isn't doing anything dangerous. But if I call and say there is a large dog of x breed harassing me/my dogs/ growling at passer bys, the police will probably make a visit.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Here is one they posted yesterday (Sorry guys, exams all day, it's midterm season )




March 4, 2014 – A city resident is speaking out after Erie Police shot and killed her dog.

But, Erie Police Chief Randy Bowers defends the officers given the situation.

Erie Police shot and killed a rottweiler Saturday morning after reportedly being called to the neighborhood for reports of the dog charging at people.

But, some neighbors say that wasn't the case.

Titan was a 3 1/2 old rottweiler owned by Athena Bonfa.

Bonfa says she's devastated after her dog was shot by police, that she's started a Facebook page and is questioning why police would shoot her dog that she says was like a big lap dog.

Chief Randy Bowers says when officers arrived on scene, the officers tried to make contact with the dog, but the dog charged at one officer.

Chief Bowers says that's when the officer shot the dog, firing four shots.

Animal enforcement wasn't called Saturday, but Chief Bowers says they're only called if the circumstance allows it.

Chief Bowers says the dog charged and there wasn't time to call.

Meanwhile, witnesses tell a different story, saying the dog wasn't aggressive Saturday when the shooting happened.

The city has an ordinance that says dogs must always be on a leash.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Post the link? I think you actually legally have to as you have to properly quote and give credit for the article.

Just look at that article...reports of dog being aggressive and SOME neighbors say that isn't the case. All about who you choose to believe at this point. I don't think people would've called the police if the dog hadn't charged or done something aggressive. Most people would've just let it wander if it wasn't showing that it is a danger to them.

I have a really hard time believing that police officers would just fire off their weapons. Its just way more trouble than its worth if you're doing it just because you want to or you feel that you can get away with it. Most people are also not really into killing other animals for no good reason, they do feel bad about it when it happens, so I don't believe this particular one was just doing it for fun.

As for the owner, it sounds like there were a lot of eye witnesses...none of them recognized the dog and could get in contact with the owner before any of this happened? Seems like way too many people saw this occur and didn't know the owner. If my dog got out in my neighborhood, the majority of the street would know who's dog it is and where to go to get me.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I think this goes to show that most people probably might not know aggression when they do or don't see it or not. 

Someone mentioned the off leash dogs at parks thread and people being afraid a loose dog would be aggressive or might cause a fight with their own DA dog. I think if we owners of GSD's cannot tell when an incoming dog is a threat how can a cop be expected to? Yes, the officers do need some training. But even if a dog barks or appears threatening because it is afraid, it is still a threat. 

I don't condone shooting dogs just because they sometimes escape but I don't expect a police officer to have to stop and think about whether the dog is really aggressive or not if it appears to be threatening. 

The best answer is keep them contained, but accidents do happen, part of life. We can do our best to avoid that by being hyper vigilant about it. 

I posted about Kayos' escape and my neighbor kicking her and being afraid of my dogs. I think one reason he may be afraid is that we are so vigilant about them. His wife even told me one day they were afraid of them because of how we present them. I had to scratch my head at that. I think what she meant was we are very careful with them and in their eyes it must be they are mean if we are so carefiul. No they are not mean, I just don't want them out and about and out of my control and protection. Same neighbor has 5 dogs that are not under control and in fact have threatened us on our own property. Since I know dogs a little bit, I understood the dog was not really looking for a fight and I ran it off and told the neighbor to keep it at home or I would call ACO. Would I hae called the police and see the dog possibly shot? No. it did not deserve that and it was not really a threat. Bad blood between us and the neighbor now but that is too bad.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Rottweilers, they can be twice as big as our shepherds. 130 pounds for a rot is not that out of the ordinary. And, they are a dog bred to handle cattle -- 2000 pound animals, and guard the money. It was a butcher's dog. A guard dog. 

You cannot expect everyone to believe or know your Tiny is big marshmallow. If you want to keep a formidable dog breed, than you can't afford to have nothing between your dog and a bullet but screen-door or a baby gate. 

The cops were called to the scene.

The cops had reports of the dog charging people.

The cops shot the dog. 

It wouldn't have happened if the owner managed her dog better. No, this dog did not need to be shot to death. It wouldn't have been if the owner wouldn't have let it get loose. The real tragedy here is that the owner is blaming the cops. So when she gets another dog, that dog will be in just as much danger. If you cannot take responsibility for your part in what happens, then you won't make the changes necessary to keep another critter safe, because you simply do not believe it is your fault.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Post the link? I think you actually legally have to as you have to properly quote and give credit for the article.



I've had five exams this week, including one tomorrow and Friday and simply copied what was posted to Facebook to be time efficient, was not aware I would be questioned for legal issues on a dog forum or maybe thought for tampering? I'll post it when I can find it. 



martemchik said:


> Just look at that article...reports of dog being aggressive and SOME neighbors say that isn't the case. All about who you choose to believe at this point. I don't think people would've called the police if the dog hadn't charged or done something aggressive. Most people would've just let it wander if it wasn't showing that it is a danger to them.


I've met some pretty baised people with Rottweilers, Pitts, etc. I personally feel that certain people would call if it so much as barked at a squirrel. But that could be my area and the people I've run into. Might be different in other, maybe more dog friendly areas. 



martemchik said:


> I have a really hard time believing that police officers would just fire off their weapons. Its just way more trouble than its worth if you're doing it just because you want to or you feel that you can get away with it. Most people are also not really into killing other animals for no good reason, they do feel bad about it when it happens, so I don't believe this particular one was just doing it for fun.


I used to think this way (well, I do think this way with most police incidents) , until I've heard a few things about this department. An officer for it discouraged my boyfriend from applying for them, saying that some of the things that the other officers do and get away with make him sick and hate his job. I'm all for the police, I'm the type that likes to argue with the little thugs who say 'F the Pigs' and all that crap, drives me insane, but I just don't really know about this department. Really makes me wonder. 



martemchik said:


> As for the owner, it sounds like there were a lot of eye witnesses...none of them recognized the dog and could get in contact with the owner before any of this happened? Seems like way too many people saw this occur and didn't know the owner. If my dog got out in my neighborhood, the majority of the street would know who's dog it is and where to go to get me.


From my understanding, she just moved into this neighborhood. I'm not sure how recently, I'd have to see what I could find on that.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Got it, on YourErie

Dog Owner Speaks Out After Police Shoot and Kill Her Dog - YourErie.com - Powered by JET 24 and FOX 66 Erie PA

According to the video, some neighbors also say it is often loose and appears aggressive. 

Video also says the owner was upstairs sleeping when it happened.

Phew, this story is all over the place.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Here's the Facebook Page

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Titan-The-Bull-Bonfa/237593229761306

Just a warning, (not to be mean, but...) the owner seems to lack a professional vocabulary.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

It is interesting to note that as I was trying to find the link for that article, I found a Facebook Group called "Titan the Bull Bonfa is a Fraud"... it didn't have any information on it but it appears to be a page dedicated to point out story inconsistencies of the owner (home, not home, etc). Oh and a lot of angry comments from a handful of people saying the owner just wants money. 

People sure are interesting.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

A girl and her dog said:


> After reading through, I wanted to add some. As the owner of a GSD/mix, even a MIX, he looks more like a GSD than anything he's mixed with, I know how the breed is perceived. When we talk about bully breeds and public perception, we have to understand that the general public includes GSD's. They include Dobermans, Mastiffs, Huskies, Chow Chows, Cane Corsos; lots of breeds that don't have "bull" in the name of the breed. The public perceives any dog that has been used in any aggressive training or guarding to be a bully-breed.


That is exactly what I was inferring, thank you for explaining it in a better way for me!


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> I posted about Kayos' escape and my neighbor kicking her and being afraid of my dogs. I think one reason he may be afraid is that we are so vigilant about them. His wife even told me one day they were afraid of them because of how we present them.



I agree with this completely. I was just pondering this the other night when I was walking Reagan. I'm trying to teach him to ignore other people on walks, and he was doing so well until we crossed the street at the same time as another man and Reagan reached his head across to sniff him. I grabbed his head so quickly that the man must have thought he was about to bite him, not sniff him..


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Exactly. Sometimes we do this to ourselves.

In our case, we moved from Oregon, bought our home and promptly put up a 6 foot privacy fence. We also had a dog run built in the yard attached to the garage so the dogs could be contained while we were at work and have access to the garage for shelter. In Orgone we had a pet sitter that came at lunch to let the dogs out for awhile. No such luck here so we had to do the run. 

We also have a padlock on our gate. Why? So it is not inadvertently opened as we cannot see it from the house.

We just want to keep our dogs safe but I bet the neighbor sees fortress for aggressive dogs.

We have discussed this with them, we even asked if they would have a problem with a privacy fence (which is irreleevant since it was on my property), which they did not. How they knew about the padlocked gate is a mystery as it is on the far side of the house and no where in their line of sihjt unless they were on my property. I suspect they were chasing one of their loose dogs around my house and saw it. 

Sorry they feel that way but they are idiots. We now have cameras all over the property too just for them. Their dogs kept us awake last night, poor things were out in the rain. 

Taking care of our dogs for their safety is important.


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