# Kalmes Acres Shepherds



## noahsmommy2007 (Apr 21, 2014)

We just purchased our puppy from this breeder. I recently saw a thread mentioning to stay away from her...could anyone please PM me or elaborate further? We are quite concerned. Thanks!


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## noahsmommy2007 (Apr 21, 2014)

Thanks everyone, for your input! Should we consider re-homing her? We just booked an appointment for a reputable trainer in our area (who we found out too late, also breeds GSD's), and he is going to do a thorough evaluation on her.

When typically are OFA results best for? We thought that 2 years was good, but clearly, we should have looked further. She seems to be rather challenging...but we are guessing that is typical puppy behavior? The breeder also mentioned that she takes them away from the mom's area during the 6 week mark, although extended it to 7 for ours because they 'forgot'...I was concerned that that extra week might have made a big difference. Or is 7 weeks still enough time with her mom and litter? They are all on-site, so we didn't understand why she would take her away that early.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

why would you rehome her? You bought her, stick with her. 

She probably is showing typical puppy behavior. 

Tho I don't know the breeder, only LaRen's experience, it says on the site they don't 'home' their puppies out until 8 weeks. It sounds like from your post, they just remove them from the mother at 6 weeks which is ok. 

Did you get your puppy when it was 8 weeks? 

Do your evaluation, deal with what you've got, you may learn alot from the experience..


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

noahsmommy2007 said:


> Thanks everyone, for your input! Should we consider re-homing her? We just booked an appointment for a reputable trainer in our area (who we found out too late, also breeds GSD's), and he is going to do a thorough evaluation on her.
> 
> When typically are OFA results best for? We thought that 2 years was good, but clearly, we should have looked further. She seems to be rather challenging...but we are guessing that is typical puppy behavior? The breeder also mentioned that she takes them away from the mom's area during the 6 week mark, although extended it to 7 for ours because they 'forgot'...I was concerned that that extra week might have made a big difference. Or is 7 weeks still enough time with her mom and litter? They are all on-site, so we didn't understand why she would take her away that early.


Sorry, but this post kind of makes me mad. You just created another thread about a dog in urgent need of adoption, yet you are willing to drop off/rehome this PUPPY because you read some bad reviews about it's breeder online?? The puppy could be fine...could have some issues. It's not the puppy's fault you didn't do your research and that it came from such a breeder. It is what it is. The one thing most of us have in common is when we found out our first dog's breeder wasn't stellar, it didn't change our love and commitment to the dog.

However, imo, if your first inclination after reading nine people's negative reactions to your breeder is to dump the dog, I think you should find it a home that will love and care for it. I think from now on you are going to be looking for everything wrong you can find in this dog. 

Argh, I'm going to stop there before I go too far.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I do not think the OP should rehome her puppy. 

I have stated it a million times on this forum and I told the OP through PM that my dog is fantastic, he really is the best dog I have ever met and I have had several other people make the same comment. He's ridiculously smart, catches on very fast, he's a joy to take places, very well behaved and very loyal to me. Even though he didn't come from a reputable breeder he is an amazing dog, I would never give him up for all the money in the world, he's the best decision I ever made. I don't regret buying him, I regret giving her money.

OP keep your puppy, love her, spoil her, train her and later on in life when you are ready for another puppy, do more research, support a breeder that does all the proper health testing and titles their dogs in show or work/sport.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

noahsmommy2007 said:


> Thanks everyone, for your input! Should we consider re-homing her? We just booked an appointment for a reputable trainer in our area (who we found out too late, also breeds GSD's), and he is going to do a thorough evaluation on her.
> 
> When typically are OFA results best for? We thought that 2 years was good, but clearly, we should have looked further. She seems to be rather challenging...but we are guessing that is typical puppy behavior? The breeder also mentioned that she takes them away from the mom's area during the 6 week mark, although extended it to 7 for ours because they 'forgot'...I was concerned that that extra week might have made a big difference. Or is 7 weeks still enough time with her mom and litter? They are all on-site, so we didn't understand why she would take her away that early.


Why would you rehome her? She's just a baby, you bought her and you need to deal with her.
A trainer who breeds GSDs is likely going to make some harsh judgements, take them for what they are worth. Be prepared to hear a lot about living up to bad breeding. Hopefully he will be fair in his assessment, but she is still really young? 
Ideally pups need to be with Momma until at least 8 weeks, I prefer to see 10 weeks. A breeder who forgot would scare the crap out of me.
Ideally hips should be prelimed prior to 24 months and then checked again after 24 months when most of the growing is done.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Puppies do not need to be with their mother for 8 weeks-they are usually weaned much before that- it is important for them to have that time with their litter mates


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## noahsmommy2007 (Apr 21, 2014)

I think that my question came off wrong here. It's interesting that I was just asking the previous posters the question based on their responses, and didn't expect to be chastised here by other posters  
I was asking because the previous posters had all stated quite negative things about her and I was just curious if that's what the overall consensus was (from the previous posters.) We would not just dump a puppy because of a breeder, it's unfortunate my question was a bit misconstrued, I was just curious as to what the responses would be. 

We rescued our other GSD and really wanted to rescue another this time. We have been trying to adopt for the last few months, I applied to various GSD rescues (because we did really want another GSD) and have had no luck. The CA rescue was discouraging us, because we were so far away, they had so many GSD's that need homes, so that was disappointing. Because of timing issues, we were looking at getting one this spring/summer and after having no luck, my hubby suggested perhaps getting a puppy from the onset would a good option (and also, to see if we could help shape her a bit more in behaviors and such, as our rescue had lots of issues that required a lot of work.) We spent ample time looking at various rescues, but did not do our homework on the breeders as well as we should have, clearly, because we had really thought we would be rescuing. 

We never rehomed our first rescued GSD, we adopted him at the 6 month adolescence period and he is now 9...we paid for lots of individual and group training, and did quite a bit of work with him to get him where he is now. We are constantly trying to network GSD's that need a home (through Facebook, etc.) as well as pledging money to save them.


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## noahsmommy2007 (Apr 21, 2014)

Thanks for clarifying about how long they should stay with the mom. It didn't make sense, that she was removed from her mother, when her mother was also on-site. The puppies were in a different area than the other dogs, so I don't think she saw her mother again after she was removed. She was with her litter mates, though, but was the last one adopted out.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Enjoy your puppy! I can't wait to see pictures, and hear about her, if you stay around after all this.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

And, since when do we discuss the negatives of specific breeders on the open forum. I understand the OP was asking for PMs, as that is within the board rules. 

OP, people took offense at the way, you were quick to ask whether you should rehome your puppy, not because it has health or behavior problems that the pup has, but because it _may _develop issues since it came from what some people feel is a questionable breeder.

Well, I got news for you. Read around a bit about the state that the GSD is in according to all the experts. The experts are not talking about dogs from BYBs and puppy mills. They are talking about dogs from show and sport breeders who compete regularly. And these dogs have structural and health problems. Dallas, one of the most widely used AL studs in a long time, dead at age 9, due to whatever. And it seems across the board, not just a show line or American bred dogs. And they are talking about health AND temperament, shoddy bitework, etc. They are not talking about all the dogs that Joe Schmoe is putting together in his back yard -- no one knows those dogs. 

They are talking about dogs they see out there doing sport, doing bitework, showing. These are the big names who are breeding dogs. 

I am not suggesting that the reputable breeders have a monopoly on problems, but the fact is, you bought a living, breathing creature, that is subject to an imperfect world in which there are many carcinogens and impurities that cause problems, all the lines are plagued with genetic issues, that good breeder _try _to avoid. 

Dumping (rehoming) a pup because of what it _might _become for a pup from some other breeder could backfire. But, if you have it your mind that your puppy is defective because you have heard some stuff about its breeder, and you cannot get over that thought, and will see the puppy as less because of it, than it is probably better to rehome the puppy.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

The situation of rescue in California is really sad. So many german shepherds in need of homes. Thank you for rescuing. I hope you stay!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

noahsmommy2007 said:


> Thanks for clarifying about how long they should stay with the mom. It didn't make sense, that she was removed from her mother, when her mother was also on-site. The puppies were in a different area than the other dogs, so I don't think she saw her mother again after she was removed. She was with her litter mates, though, but was the last one adopted out.


It's a personal preference. Some like to take the puppies off the dam, so they will be totally accustomed to the food, and to get the dam back in shape. It takes a lot out of her, and to get her coat back and to limit her intake, removing the puppies seems to help. I had raised a single, small puppy and I left her with her dam the whole time. The breeder whose puppy it was, asked me if I removed her from her dam when I dropped her off. I said no. Her dam was playing with her, and she was learning from her. She thought it would be more difficult for the pup to adjust to being without her. More difficult for whom? The puppy was just fine. Adjusted to her home without a hiccup. 

It may depend on the dogs too. But is not too early to move the bitch out from the puppies.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

noahsmommy2007 said:


> I think that my question came off wrong here. It's interesting that I was just asking the previous posters the question based on their responses, and didn't expect to be chastised here by other posters
> I was asking because the previous posters had all stated quite negative things about her and I was just curious if that's what the overall consensus was (from the previous posters.) We would not just dump a puppy because of a breeder, it's unfortunate my question was a bit misconstrued, I was just curious as to what the responses would be.
> 
> We rescued our other GSD and really wanted to rescue another this time. We have been trying to adopt for the last few months, I applied to various GSD rescues (because we did really want another GSD) and have had no luck. The CA rescue was discouraging us, because we were so far away, they had so many GSD's that need homes, so that was disappointing. Because of timing issues, we were looking at getting one this spring/summer and after having no luck, my hubby suggested perhaps getting a puppy from the onset would a good option (and also, to see if we could help shape her a bit more in behaviors and such, as our rescue had lots of issues that required a lot of work.) We spent ample time looking at various rescues, but did not do our homework on the breeders as well as we should have, clearly, because we had really thought we would be rescuing.
> ...



I was typing before your explanation. Sorry that your post sounded like you were going to rehome the puppy because the breeder wasn't up to snuff by this board's standards. 

All dogs will have challenges. When you hook up an inexperienced owner with the wrong handler, those problems can be much worse. Since you have experience with the breed, you only have to get past the puppy. There are so many mistakes to make, don't worry you will make some. We all do. Mostly we can work through them though.


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## d4lilbitz (Dec 30, 2013)

LaRen616 said:


> I do not think the OP should rehome her puppy.
> 
> I have stated it a million times on this forum and I told the OP through PM that my dog is fantastic, he really is the best dog I have ever met and I have had several other people make the same comment. He's ridiculously smart, catches on very fast, he's a joy to take places, very well behaved and very loyal to me. Even though he didn't come from a reputable breeder he is an amazing dog, I would never give him up for all the money in the world, he's the best decision I ever made. I don't regret buying him, I regret giving her money.
> 
> OP keep your puppy, love her, spoil her, train her and later on in life when you are ready for another puppy, do more research, support a breeder that does all the proper health testing and titles their dogs in show or work/sport.


Well Said!!! :thumbup:


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*PLEASE most of the now deleted posts should have been sent in a PM. If you want to discuss some of the posts in a generalized thread, please feel free to start one. 

ADMIN. *


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

What jumps out at me more then this breeder is the OP really wanted to rescue and had successfully rescued and rehabbed a GSD. We are reading more stories of people here who want to rescue and get rejected or the run around from rescues. I read the urgent posting the OP put up also. The dog could only go to rescue even though no problems with aggression were noted?

I don't know what's going on there but it appears that rescues are pushing adopters away and they end up going with a breeder and sometimes breeders who aren't as careful or caring of the breed. 

I was chatting with a friend this morning who has been involved in rescue for 20 years and this problem is becoming too common.....


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## buddy (Apr 30, 2010)

LaRen616. You continue to bad mouth me and your dog does not even have a problem along with about everyone on this site.And LaRene 616 says he is the best dog she has ever owned but still continues to bad mouth me. I have 99% happy and healthy homes. I do no breed for for high drive dogs and I tell everyone that. I love my Shepherds the way so breed them and very proud of my dogs.


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## buddy (Apr 30, 2010)

Oh and I forgot to say I am Kalmes Acres Shepherds.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Hi buddy!

Most people around here and in the GSD world just disagree strongly with programs that have minimum, if any, testing, large amounts of litters, breeding dogs that don't meet breed standards (breeding dogs with zero workability, poor structure, poor pigment, extreme size, too much drive or slugs in GSD clothing, bad nerve, poor health etc), zero testing of temperament (no titles, no breed surveys, no working dogs...nothing). 

Most encourage people to go to breeders that strive for the most excellent of the breed, that health test, ofa, heart, dm, etc, temperament test ie: sport, protection, SchH, SAR, LE, Military, herding...SOMETHING. They hold to the standard of the breed, proper structure that doesn't limit workability, correct pigment, good nerve, strong health, utility workers. 

They are encouraged to go to breeders that are very involved in the dog world, be it obedience, sport, real-life-work etc, have extensive reasoning behind their pedigree matches, and aren't changing the breed standard in their program to fit the masses(extreme size, extreme drive or lack there of, out-of-standard-pigments). 

Some even further justify their program by claiming they are going "against the standard" for the betterment of the breed....meanwhile they are doing nothing in their program to show that their dogs can truly meet the standards of the breed's workability (protection, scent work, service work, UTILITY dogs.....dogs that the GSD was meant to be). They aren't showing that the utility, "jack-of-all-trades" mentality of the GSD is still maintained in their "program." They use lots of words to describe how wonderful their program is, but no action or proof to back it up...other than, "we breed great pets."

Anyway, since you are knew here, I'm just describing what kind of breeder many around here are encouraged to go to, and what kind of breeder they are encouraged to not support....have a nice day and welcome to the forum, it's great place to learn!


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## buddy (Apr 30, 2010)

Hello DaniFani, I did start with the German dogs imported from Germany and watched them and then fell in love with the lines I have now. And I do have puppies out there with titles. I do not find the need to advertise it. I have a pup now that is a grand champion in obedience in WI. right now.
And I do have 12 breeding females that I do not breed them all even once a year. But I really do enjoy my puppies and I love to watch and hear how all of my babies are growing up. And how well they are doing in there new families lives.
All people have a right to breed how they like and what they believe in without other people saying they are doing it all wrong and talking bad about them. 
And I have been a member here for a long time just have not wanted to voice my option because you guys have nothing nice to say about too many people.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

So you have 12 breeding females, have you been following the PUPS act regulations that have been implemented? 
Is that causing any problems with shipping/buyers now have to come to your facility to pick up instead?


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## buddy (Apr 30, 2010)

I also have a couple in NW3 ,tracking and schzt. but do not feel the need to advertise it.


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## buddy (Apr 30, 2010)

I am USDA licensed and county Licensed. I do highly recommend them come meet the parents and see there temperament and how they live.And I go meet all of my dogs parents and look at the kennel before I buy.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

as a breeder you are aware of this?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...usda-regulations-shipping-puppies-buyers.html


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## buddy (Apr 30, 2010)

Yes and thank you onyx'girl


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

DaniFani said:


> Hi buddy!
> 
> Most people around here and in the GSD world just disagree strongly with programs that have minimum, if any, testing, large amounts of litters, breeding dogs that don't meet breed standards (breeding dogs with zero workability, poor structure, poor pigment, extreme size, too much drive or slugs in GSD clothing, bad nerve, poor health etc), zero testing of temperament (no titles, no breed surveys, no working dogs...nothing).
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

buddy said:


> LaRen616. You continue to bad mouth me and your dog does not even have a problem along with about everyone on this site.And LaRene 616 says he is the best dog she has ever owned but still continues to bad mouth me. I have 99% happy and healthy homes. I do no breed for for high drive dogs and I tell everyone that. I love my Shepherds the way so breed them and very proud of my dogs.


 **** Removed by ADMIN ****


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

_*ENOUGH! If buyer and breeder have a disagreement, take it to PM! The board is not a vehicle to attack one-another in public. If more personal attacking stuff gets posted, warnings will be issued. 

ADMIN. *_


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

buddy said:


> I also have a couple in NW3 ,tracking and schzt. but do not feel the need to advertise it.


I'm curious as to your reasons not to advertise the accomplishments of your lineage? It would seem to me that would be a way to solidify your breeding practices.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Amazing that the USDA regulations are more geared towards big commercial operations than small breeders who follow the standard and are not marketing for color, size and who do all the health testing....there is something wrong with the system when that when those who do things right get penalized and those who don't get an official stamp of approval.....


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

wolfstraum said:


> Amazing that the USDA regulations are more geared towards big commercial operations than small breeders who follow the standard and are not marketing for color, size and who do all the health testing....there is something wrong with the system when that when those who do things right get penalized and those who don't get an official stamp of approval.....


I agree. I don't get it. It just doesn't make sense to me.


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