# Seriously feels like nowhere is safe to take your dog



## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

My SO and I were sitting at a public park on a bench and the breed that shall not be mentioned ran up to us and our dog. It was friendly at first but then it decided it wanted my GSD’s toy and went after her. My dog wasn’t injured but my SO has a bite on his leg. It’s not bad thankfully. The owner had just rescued the dog and I don’t really blame him. He was horrified. 

It really just pissed me off though. Our dog was doing nothing wrong and this is the second time she’s been attacked while on leash by an off leash dog. This time we let her go to run. I didn’t the first time she was attacked in a different city and traffic was around. What can I carry around to help prevent this? A stick seems insane. Pepper spray?! A spray bottle? A taser?!

On the flip side, I wasn’t sure if my dog would defend herself or run. She’s not a runner when her family got attacked that’s for sure. After my SO was bitten, she saw red and held her own against this massive dog in the fight. It would have been better for her own safety if she ran but she didn’t. ? Ugh. I’m so frustrated and mad. I feel so powerless to protect my dog. I’m tiny and it was horrible to see my SO get attacked while I was just yelling at the dog and trying to kick it away


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

I am so sorry you have to deal with this. Here's my advice from another thread:



JonRob said:


> Always take a very sturdy wooden shepherd's crook or blackthorn walking stick/cane with you. Get one that is comfortable for you to carry, easy to swing and bang on the ground, and strong enough not to break if you hit the ground hard with it.
> 
> Always take Spray Shield, a citronella spray, with you in a way that makes it easy to grab and use in a hurry, like in a holster. You can get it at amazon or chewy.
> 
> ...


If you do not feel up to any of this, you might consider taking a serious self-defense class. The most important thing a good class like this does is give you a righteous don't-mess-with-me attitude and the willingness to do whatever is necessary to stop an attack on you, your SO, or your dog.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Hornet spray or bear spray shoots a thin stream at a good distance.Pepper spray tends to waft back at you.I'm glad you folks and the dogs are ok.I'm fortunate to live in a rural area and don't have to deal with too many dog fight ordeals.Porcupines are our biggest problem.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I never give another off leash dog the time to make contact with my dog but step in front of her and act as if I am warding off a cougar. I don't care what others think. My referee whistle has been 100% effective in this.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

JonRob said:


> I am so sorry you have to deal with this. Here's my advice from another thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much! I didn’t even know that spray existed and I’ll purchase some right away. The stick as well. The loop I also had no idea existed and I will 100% get that. My SO is huge and he separated the dogs but I would not have been able to do that if I had been alone. ? I can’t even imagine what would have happened to my dog


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> I never give another off leash dog the time to make contact with my dog but step in front of her and act as if I am warding off a cougar. I don't care what others think. My referee whistle has been 100% effective in this.


I think I’ll start doing that and never risk it again. My SO did today and he got bit but it probably saved our one year old GSD. I’ve had a similar situation before and my screaming scared off the dog but this dog didn’t care. It was like it was possessed and so quickly as well. I have NO clue why someone would let a dog like that off leash ever


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am not blaming you, but there may be some things you can do to prevent issues before they happen. 

Lots of dog parks have rules against bringing toys, as toys can spark squabbles, and squabbles escalate. I'd play with toys at home, and not bring them with you to a park. 

Avoid some dogs and people. Keep your eyes open and if you see Trouble coming, get up and leave. No, that's not fair. No, you shouldn't have to. But it will keep your dog safe. 

You do not have to allow your dog to "make friends" with ANY dog, but you can with dogs that seem ok. But it's totally up to you. If you do not trust a certain breed or breeds, than don't allow those breeds to interact with your dog. If the owner comes up and asks if your dog is friendly, just say "No." You can say, "No, she is in training." if you want to be nicer. 

Judge people by how they are interacting with their dog and with other people before they get to you. If you think they will not respect your wish not to have an interaction between the dogs, get out of Dodge. 

Trouble may be a particular breed or breeds, it may be how the dog is behaving, whether it is under control or not. It can be just something about the dog's person. It can be nothing but a bad feeling about a person or a dog. 

If your pup gets attacked enough, she may lose confidence in your ability to protect her, and when that happens, she may feel it necessary to attack first and ask questions later. You need to decide to be a hag, to say no, to diss people or dogs by how they look or how they act or what their breed is. The only person you have to answer to is the one in the mirror. In protecting your dog, by acting before anything happens, you can prevent having to react physically. And by action -- walking away with your dog before a problem happens, you don't have to exhibit those high emotion moments where you or your dog is getting hurt and you are trying anything to get it go stop.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

Is the best solution to also avoid anywhere dogs might be off leash? Like hikes or near public parks? We live near a few open fields that I feel safe at because I go off hours and we’ve never had conflict there. Just a few neighborhood labs on occasion.

I seriously lost it a few months ago when my dog was on leash and she got attacked. I was screaming at the owner like a banshee and he got his dog and ran. I don’t even care that I screamed bloody murder. I just can’t watch my dog get hurt again. Dog owners can suck. ? The ones outside this forum anyway!!


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

germanshepowner said:


> My SO is huge and he separated the dogs but I would not have been able to do that if I had been alone. ? I can’t even imagine what would have happened to my dog


Or to you! Attacks like this are extremely dangerous and you are absolutely right to take them seriously. If you have the right equipment, tactics, and attitude, size matters not, as Yoda says. The fact that you were kicking the attacking dog tells me that you have the guts you need here, even though it's not an effective tactic for a tiny person. But it's just plain nuts that you have to deal with this.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Living in a fairly populated area I have to have my head on a swivel. Dogs on flexis, dogs out of control and strong enough to pull their owner to where they want to go, people that run up squeal and hug strange dogs. My dogs learn to deal with the latter. 

I recommend bear spray (on charging dogs, not overly affection people lol) because it has range and the stream delivery is not as subject to wind redirection as a spray. I also carry a bite stick. I got a nice wooden one off Amazon. Important to know how to use it.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Don't be lulled into a false sense of security because a dog is on a leash. I have personally witnessed three separate incidents where certain breeds pulled their owners over and dragged them.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

selzer said:


> I am not blaming you, but there may be some things you can do to prevent issues before they happen.
> 
> Lots of dog parks have rules against bringing toys, as toys can spark squabbles, and squabbles escalate. I'd play with toys at home, and not bring them with you to a park.
> 
> ...


Thanks selzer for your detailed and thoughtful post!

It feels so helpless because the only times she’s been attacked is when we’ve literally been blindsided by a dog running from behind us from behind a large building or house or trail. ? One was in a very rich neighborhood while she was on leash and the dog ran out of its house from behind us. I think that’s why I feel so defenseless and powerless. I’ve yelled at owners and dogs before when they’ve approached and avoided issues. But now three incidents this YEAR alone where my dog has been attacked out of nowhere with no provocation has made me furious. I’m just steaming mad. I’ll never go to that park again which sucks because it’s usually empty and we usually know everyone there too. 

I love what you said about the only person that I have to answer to is in the mirror! Love it. My only lucky part in this is that my dogs confidence is unshakeable. She immediately shook it off and was ready to continue walking. I love that dog so much even though she’s a goof. I wish I could shake it off. Lol. I’ll be mad about this for days.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

JonRob said:


> I am so sorry you have to deal with this. Here's my advice from another thread:


Excellent advice, JonRob! I've been in a situation where a GSD attacked one of my dogs and wouldn't release the bite, and ohboy, wouldn't wish that situation on ANYONE!! She was on a prong collar so choking her out wasn't an option, and she totally ignored me yanking as hard as I could on the collar, and kicking her as hard as I could. I finally sat on her, planning to choke her with my bare hands. Fortunately, my weight on her body made her release - I'm not skinny!


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

germanshepowner said:


> Is the best solution to also avoid anywhere dogs might be off leash? Like hikes or near public parks?


As much as you can. But sooner or later, this will probably happen again no matter where you go. So be prepared. And yes, it truly stinks that you have to do this because there are so many jerks in the world.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

JonRob said:


> germanshepowner said:
> 
> 
> > My SO is huge and he separated the dogs but I would not have been able to do that if I had been alone. ? I can’t even imagine what would have happened to my dog
> ...


Thanks JonRob! Hahah! Size matters not! 

Just purchased a few of the things people recommended here! Thank you. I feel safer already and I could honestly kick myself for not purchasing these earlier for prevention. I feel awful.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

Sunsilver said:


> JonRob said:
> 
> 
> > I am so sorry you have to deal with this. Here's my advice from another thread:
> ...


That is horrific. I’m so sorry! I can’t even imagine.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

germanshepowner said:


> Just purchased a few of the things people recommended here! Thank you. I feel safer already and I could honestly kick myself for not purchasing these earlier for prevention. I feel awful.


You shouldn't. How the heck would you know? A long long time ago, my girlfriend and I lived in the big city (New York, God help us) and we had to figure this stuff out the hard way. She is tiny and I am not, but she can be even more ferocious than I am when it's necessary.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Don't be lulled into a false sense of security because a dog is on a leash. I have personally witnessed three separate incidents where certain breeds pulled their owners over and dragged them.


Ugh I’ve seen that as well and it makes me so mad. I used to live in an apartment building with a nice couple that had young children that had a GSD that would try to kill any dog it saw. They thought they could manage it and they were deluding themselves. I had to check the halls and call out before we even left our apartment.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

JonRob said:


> germanshepowner said:
> 
> 
> > Just purchased a few of the things people recommended here! Thank you. I feel safer already and I could honestly kick myself for not purchasing these earlier for prevention. I feel awful.
> ...


Hahah I love that! I hope I can become more ferocious. Thank you so much for your kind posts :’) I’ll try to feel less bad about this mistake


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

Sunsilver said:


> Excellent advice, JonRob! I've been in a situation where a GSD attacked one of my dogs and wouldn't release the bite, and ohboy, wouldn't wish that situation on ANYONE!! She was on a prong collar so choking her out wasn't an option, and she totally ignored me yanking as hard as I could on the collar, and kicking her as hard as I could. I finally sat on her, planning to choke her with my bare hands. Fortunately, my weight on her body made her release - I'm not skinny!


Awesome job, Sunsilver! Yoda has taken note of the fact that sometimes size does matter.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

germanshepowner said:


> Thanks selzer for your detailed and thoughtful post!
> 
> It feels so helpless because the only times she’s been attacked is when we’ve literally been blindsided by a dog running from behind us from behind a large building or house or trail. ? One was in a very rich neighborhood while she was on leash and the dog ran out of its house from behind us. I think that’s why I feel so defenseless and powerless. I’ve yelled at owners and dogs before when they’ve approached and avoided issues. But now three incidents this YEAR alone where my dog has been attacked out of nowhere with no provocation has made me furious. I’m just steaming mad. I’ll never go to that park again which sucks because it’s usually empty and we usually know everyone there too.
> 
> I love what you said about the only person that I have to answer to is in the mirror! Love it. My only lucky part in this is that my dogs confidence is unshakeable. She immediately shook it off and was ready to continue walking. *I love that dog so much even though she’s a goof. I wish I could shake it off. Lol. I’ll be mad about this for days.*


It will be better for your dog if you are not. Mind over matter. Shake it off. I was at one of my graduations a hundred years ago, and they guy said, "Life is 5% what happens to you and 95% your reaction to what happens to you." I don't know if I agree with that or not, but with our dogs, our response to a situation can make a much deeper impression than the situation. 

Like if your dog is reacting to another dog. If we stop, scold the dog, make it sit, apologize to the other person, scold the dog some more, we are keeping that dog in a bad frame of mind. Much better to give a quick leash pop, while walking, and a flat, "It's a dog, you've seen dogs before." And keep on going. 

That person will walk away, log into their border collie forum and start a thread on how rude GSD owners are and how obnoxious GSDs are. That's going to hurt everyone a whole lot less than if your dog takes a chunk out of the border collie. 

So, when our dog is attacked, we need to get EVERYONE back to normal as quickly as possible. We need to shake off the anger. Because we are transmitting everything to our dogs. Everything. 

When our dogs are in a fight, we elevate our heart rate, we are fearful, anxious and panicked. We may have to kick that dog or rip our dog out of the grip of the other. We have to be careful of the other owner, who might take offense at how we offensively defend our dog. And when it is all over, the other dog is being dragged away, and you are moving in the opposite direction, then the anger sets in. It's real. Your beloved critter was endangered by the other dog, its owner did not do enough, and it should never have happened. We could have been injured. What if that was a child walking our dog? By the time we get to our car or home, we are Good and Mad. 

Type it out here. If you can crate your dog in another room and go to town on the keyboard. Make an action plan for what you are going to do and say for the next incident. Call AC and complain. Call your village or county officials and complain. Call your local congressman if it helps. But then try to bring yourself into a state of calm. In fact, if you can practice getting yourself in a state a calm, apply that until you have your dog safely crated or kenneled in another room. Walk away from the fight like you are walking onto a yaht (Carly Simon), get your dog to a safe place, then go to the growlery (Bleak House, Charles Dickens), and vent all over the internet. Then call in your calm place again. 

The dog lives very much in the present, but if you stay in a bad place or go to a bad place immediately in similar situations, the dog will follow.  She may seem unshakeable, but every dog has a limit. If she is taking her cues from you, you have a responsibility to give her good cues.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

germanshepowner said:


> The owner had just rescued the dog and I don’t really blame him. He was horrified.


You should blame the owner. What kind of stupid are people that let "just rescued" dogs off leash in a public park or any place for that matter. Horrified or not doesn't justify the irresponsible behavior of that owner. 

Just as it's your responsibility to protect your dog and others from your dog the owner of the other dog had the same responsibility. I hope your SO received medical care and the bite was reported. 

I don't let unknown dogs approach my dog if I can at all help it. Sometimes things just happen. When I see an off leash dog approaching I try to move in the opposite direction. If I can't I get loud. Command the dog to go away, stomp a foot as I lunge a step forward toward the approaching dog repeating go away loudly with force in my voice. Make yourself big and bad with attitude. Usually the dog will retreat. By this time I'm hoping the owner will show up and collect their dog. I've had some very uncomfortable situations with strange unattended off leash dogs so I totally understand how unnerving it can make you feel. You do what you have to do to keep yourself and your dog safe. Yell, stick, spray...whatever you are comfortable using.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Don't be lulled into a false sense of security because a dog is on a leash. I have personally witnessed three separate incidents where certain breeds pulled their owners over and dragged them.


Yes, in our case, this dog hated mine for some reason and when he saw us, he bit his owner on the hand and the owner dropped the leash. Then he ran over to attack.

Another time, a man had his dogs on leash and was loading them into the car. In the split second when he released the leash and was beginning to close the door, the dog lunged out of the car and went for us. (Owner was actually scarier than the dog...when he finally reached us, he grabbed his dog by the head and screamed into its face, and then he hit it a few times. I was like...whoa...I'm more scared of this human than his dog!)

Anyway I started carrying the citronella spray.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Springbrz said:


> You should blame the owner. What kind of stupid are people that let "just rescued" dogs off leash in a public park or any place for that matter. Horrified or not doesn't justify the irresponsible behavior of that owner.
> 
> Just as it's your responsibility to protect your dog and others from your dog the owner of the other dog had the same responsibility. I hope your SO received medical care and the bite was reported.
> 
> I don't let unknown dogs approach my dog if I can at all help it. Sometimes things just happen. When I see an off leash dog approaching I try to move in the opposite direction. If I can't I get loud. Command the dog to go away, stomp a foot as I lunge a step forward toward the approaching dog repeating go away loudly with force in my voice. Make yourself big and bad with attitude. Usually the dog will retreat. By this time I'm hoping the owner will show up and collect their dog. I've had some very uncomfortable situations with strange unattended off leash dogs so I totally understand how unnerving it can make you feel. You do what you have to do to keep yourself and your dog safe. Yell, stick, spray...whatever you are comfortable using.


I think most GSD owners have a better handle on giving a dog a chance to settle in and all that. We have formidable dogs. On Labor Day, I went to my sister's building where they had a party for the family and friends of the employees and renters of the building. It was on the rooftop, and top floor, and there was the air show that day for entertainment. So a cool time with LOTS of children present. Two dogs were there. (I did not bring a dog.) The pit was friendly and the owners said it was friendly, I saw others petting it, kids petting it, I petted it. Then the owner said that they just rescued it and had it for a week. A week??? 

I decided I am never trusting anyone or their dog again. Nothing happened. But who brings a dog they've had for just a week to such a populated event, letting it free access to everyone? Some things you can't take back.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

selzer said:


> It will be better for your dog if you are not. Mind over matter. Shake it off. I was at one of my graduations a hundred years ago, and they guy said, "Life is 5% what happens to you and 95% your reaction to what happens to you." I don't know if I agree with that or not, but with our dogs, our response to a situation can make a much deeper impression than the situation.
> 
> Like if your dog is reacting to another dog. If we stop, scold the dog, make it sit, apologize to the other person, scold the dog some more, we are keeping that dog in a bad frame of mind. Much better to give a quick leash pop, while walking, and a flat, "It's a dog, you've seen dogs before." And keep on going.
> 
> ...


❤ I think I actually read that very early on from you when I joined this forum! I’ve always practiced that since. It was a great tip then when I read it and now again. I greatly appreciated it. I think it’s one of the reasons my dog is so calm. I cannot thank you enough for that. It’s a notable difference from the dogs around my area who have very anxious owners. 

Even today as my SO was bleeding, as soon as my dog was safe, we stayed longer at the park and then went to the pet store to make sure the dog didn’t think it was a big deal and to shake it off. Even my SO as he was bleeding from the leg insisted we go to the pet store and pick up food and a new toy LOL. I was like, we can go home and relax... 



Springbrz said:


> germanshepowner said:
> 
> 
> > The owner had just rescued the dog and I don’t really blame him. He was horrified.
> ...


I think he was an idiot but I blame myself more is what I meant. No clue what he was thinking taking a new rescue off leash at a public park. I think the shelter also misled him about the dog. But I had nothing to protect my dog with but my bare hands. I wasn’t checking behind myself enough to be aware of the situation. I just blame myself for letting it happen. Stupid owners will be found everywhere but I didn’t protect my dog.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

selzer said:


> Springbrz said:
> 
> 
> > You should blame the owner. What kind of stupid are people that let "just rescued" dogs off leash in a public park or any place for that matter. Horrified or not doesn't justify the irresponsible behavior of that owner.
> ...


I would trust the dog owners on this forum but nowhere else. That is a painful post to read. Yikes. One week. ?


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

@selzer while I don't disagree with you I think anyone adopting "the breed that shall not be mentioned" would know it's also a formidable breed as well. As my DH often says "you can't fix stupid". The older I get the more I realize some people are just born without any common sense.

I wish shelters would require education classes on the do's and don'ts with new rescues. I've seen it all and just never stops making me smh.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Springbrz said:


> @selzer while I don't disagree with you I think anyone adopting "the breed that shall not be mentioned" would know it's also a formidable breed as well. As my DH often says "you can't fix stupid". The older I get the more I realize some people are just born without any common sense.
> 
> I wish shelters would require education classes on the do's and don'ts with new rescues. I've seen it all and just never stops making me smh.


Shelters should have mandatory classes. Instead shelters, rescues, and humane organizations are spewing the "it's all in how you raise and train them" nonsense, breed doesn't matter, and there is no such thing as the genetics of behavior.

Shelters, rescues, evaluators and rehabbers are largely unregulated and there are no laws holding their feet to the fire when things go south.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Springbrz said:


> @selzer while I don't disagree with you I think anyone adopting "the breed that shall not be mentioned" would know it's also a formidable breed as well. As my DH often says "you can't fix stupid". The older I get the more I realize some people are just born without any common sense.
> 
> I wish shelters would require education classes on the do's and don'ts with new rescues. I've seen it all and just never stops making me smh.


There are way too many people who think a dog is just a dog and breed doesn't matter. There is also a lot of false information out there about many breeds. Along with that people may meet a friends dog and just have a snap shot of that dogs life or assume that all dogs who look like her will act just like her. 

My friend has a basset/boxer/possibly more hound and some other stuff. She's an amazing dog. My friends parents fell in love with her and got a dog that looked fairly similar. Same color scheme and blocky body. That dog was a complete nightmare, aggressive to people and animals. And it was adopted out by a rescue. Either the dog didn't show it's true colors there or they just didn't feel the need to share. 

When people get a rescue and they're told it's fine why should they think any different? It seems nice, it acts nice. They don't know any better. I agree the dos and don'ts are a good idea. But less because people are stupid and more because so many people never even think to research and never realize how much there is to learn about dogs.

I've educated many friends and casual aquaintences about many things dog. Many appreciate and are interested in the information but they aren't going to go looking for it on their own even though they may own a dog.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Please tell me you got all the owners information and you filed a report. Your SO was bleeding. He was bit. The one time I was bit by someone else's dog, I ended up with a $400 bill for a wound specialist because it was infected and wouldn't heal. I did get my money from her.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

Jax08 said:


> Please tell me you got all the owners information and you filed a report. Your SO was bleeding. He was bit. The one time I was bit by someone else's dog, I ended up with a $400 bill for a wound specialist because it was infected and wouldn't heal. I did get my money from her.


Yeah I chased after the guy to get it! I’m so sorry that happened to you! That’s awful.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

Kazel said:


> Springbrz said:
> 
> 
> > @selzer while I don't disagree with you I think anyone adopting "the breed that shall not be mentioned" would know it's also a formidable breed as well. As my DH often says "you can't fix stupid". The older I get the more I realize some people are just born without any common sense.
> ...


I am legitimately terrified how many people I know that want a GSD after meeting mine. I’ve always made sure to say how much work it is every single day and that it’s like having a child and not a dog. But I know SO many irresponsible dog owners that can’t even train their labradors who now want a GSD after knowing my dog because they think all GSD’s will be like her. They have no clue


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

germanshepowner said:


> I am legitimately terrified how many people I know that want a GSD after meeting mine. I’ve always made sure to say how much work it is every single day and that it’s like having a child and not a dog. But I know SO many irresponsible dog owners that can’t even train their labradors who now want a GSD after knowing my dog because they think all GSD’s will be like her. They have no clue


I cringe every time I see a GSD pup online and someone is preaching force free training. I do agree that teaching skills by using rewards is a very good idea, but life is NOT force free and our pups need to get used to hearing the word NO and sometimes they need to do things Because We Said So. All we can do is be good ambassadors. 

As far as other dogs go, so far I've been fortunate with the few I've met. None have meant real harm. It is on us to be situationaly aware and try to avoid confrontation as much as we can. I've tried an umbrella as a view block with limited success. I've not tried bear spray. I always bring a phone. There are different ideas on how to force two dogs apart but it you get a breed with unstopping tenacity someone is going to get bit.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Don't be lulled into a false sense of security because a dog is on a leash. I have personally witnessed three separate incidents where certain breeds pulled their owners over and dragged them.


People around the corner from me had their small dog killed by a new large rescue that pulled his new owner right to what he wanted. And my friend had same exact scenario but her dog survived. Punctures all on his rear end though. Both on a proper leash. Double danger points if you see a large pulling dog on a harness.



Jax08 said:


> Please tell me you got all the owners information and you filed a report. Your SO was bleeding. He was bit. The one time I was bit by someone else's dog, I ended up with a $400 bill for a wound specialist because it was infected and wouldn't heal. I did get my money from her.





germanshepowner said:


> Yeah I chased after the guy to get it! I’m so sorry that happened to you! That’s awful.


I agree to report broken skin, always. If nothing else if it happens again there is a file, and it will help AC categorize the dog and put sanctions on him. Some towns have 3 bite rules, etc.


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Make sure your SO gets to the urgent care clinic if there is sign of infection. I got accidentally bit breaking up a dog fight and I waited and it got infected quite badly. Ended up on IV antibiotics and with a hefty bill. It was reported at the time and at the hospital but nothing happened to the owner. I could have gone after him in small claims but I was young and it wasn't worth it at the time. Doctors seem to think dog bites don't get infected often, but my experience is that they do- every time- without either a painfully deep washing out or antibiotics.

Sorry this happened to you. This is why I'm the weirdo that avoids other dogs if they look remotely questionable. I will run off the trail into the bushes to get around dogs- I simply don't trust the owners. And I readily profile dog and owners. More the dog- because breed matters. Even the nicest owners can have nasty dogs.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Shelters should have mandatory classes. Instead shelters, rescues, and humane organizations are spewing the "it's all in how you raise and train them" nonsense, breed doesn't matter, and there is no such thing as the genetics of behavior.


Dead on. It's anti-education instead of education. Add to that the shelters' lying about breed (pawning off the breed that can't be named here as Lab mixes, Boxer mixes, Border Collie mixes, Vizsla mixes, etc.) and it's no wonder there are so many horrifying disasters. And it's going to keep getting worse because there are more and more people making excuses for bad behavior and who hate dogs that aren't the breed that can't be named here. From their point of view, people who adopt other breeds are responsible for the deaths of the breed they favor. It's gone totally nuts.

I had to change vets because one of his techs convinced him he was a bigot for being appropriately cautious with dogs with an obvious potential for mauling his other clients' dogs--or his clients. Result: The waiting room was routinely stuffed with hard-eyed, grim looking dogs just waiting for a chance to do damage while their owners cooed and whined, "Now be nice. Be gentle. What a good boy."

Lots of excellent points made in so many of the posts here. I would add that you cannot count on animal control to protect you or your dog. The other dog's owner will lie and claim your dog started it and you probably won't be able to prove otherwise. Your dog might be the one who gets seized and hauled away by AC. Even if AC is reasonable, they can't be there to stop a dog attack, just as the police, no matter how conscientious they are, can't be there to stop a mugging or worse.

Self defense is the only real solution, and I mean real self defense including the ability and willingness to choke the attacking dog into total unconsciousness. No one says this is nice or fair but it's reality these days.

REMOVED BY MODERATOR


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

*This is beginning to turn into a pit bull thread which is against forum rules.The topic is about how to prevent/handle a dog attack.Graphic violent depictions will be removed and warnings given.*


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Just a quick PSA- there is no way to safely break up a real dog fight. Your hands are very important. Do your best to protect those hands! Far better to get bit on the calf than on the hands. 

As with most things, it is far better to stop a dog fight from starting than to stop one once it has begun. 

A whistle, a walking stick, even swinging the leash around, will mostly work. Practice environmental awareness, be proactive when you see a dog that may be trouble. Don't be afraid to say "no, they can't say hello" or "grab your dog, my dog is not friendly" (even if she is). Be that jerk who walks away from the straining dog on leash, and seemingly friendly owner. It's hard, I totally get it, but preventing an incident is so critical. 

Any time you lay hands on fighting dogs you are risking serious injury to yourself- especially your hands. It is like sticking your hand in an eggbeater.

Stay safe out there! In my experience, the vast majority of dogs we encounter are friendly.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

Saco said:


> Just a quick PSA- there is no way to safely break up a real dog fight. Your hands are very important. Do your best to protect those hands! Far better to get bit on the calf than on the hands.
> 
> As with most things, it is far better to stop a dog fight from starting than to stop one once it has begun.
> 
> ...


That’s really smart. I was not being smart about keeping my hands away in that situation. I’m so thankful my SO wasn’t bit on the hand either. I’ll get a whistle as well with the spray I purchased. I feel like I’m going to need a larger bag on walks with all these new weapons! 

I could just slap myself for also not getting the number of a witness nearby. So dumb. I was more worried about helping my SO and getting the dog owners number.


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Your first instinct is going to be to reach in and grab the dog's collar. It's a bad instinct. 

It is really hard to think clearly in this situation. You want to protect your dog! That is your first thought. If you have two people who are able to listen and take instruction, each of you needs to grab the back legs of a different fighting dog and pull them in opposite circles- it will confuse them a bit and throw off their balance, and often is enough to make them let go- but you'll need to hold on tight and keep the dogs out of reach of each other or they will immediately re-grip. 

Use a stick behind the back teeth of a dog who is latched on to release the grip, then pull back once the grip is released. If the dogs are latched on, don't try to pull them apart. It will cause more damage. I've used a stick that was lying on the ground and it worked fine. You will need to be pretty strong to hold back a shepherd-size dog. It will be exhausting, but once the dogs relax just a bit from that fight zone mentality, they will not be as powerful and they tend to go out of that zone pretty quick if they are your normal pet dog type. 

This technique is still dangerous and involves a lot of risk. Ideally you grab your dog's back legs, they grab theirs. Less likely to end badly that way. 

As much as you might want to, it's a bad instinct to hit or kick a fighting dog. It is actually likely to reduce any bite inhibition they had and make them bite harder. Likewise for trying to break up a fight with a prong or e-collar that a dog is wearing. 

Try to remain calm in the aftermath. Try for your dog to treat it like no big deal. 

I get it. The one horrible fight I dealt with, I was physically spent for about a week afterward, and really sore in the muscles. Luckily, a passerby told me how to use a bite stick (I just used a stick lying on the ground) or I wouldn't have known how to separate the dogs. 

It's scary stuff. No easy solution once dogs are engaged. Water can work, as can throwing a blanket over them. But it's not guaranteed and you'll rarely have access to either out at a park.

This isn't meant to scare you. I am out with my dogs every day and only have encountered one dog that was bent on seriously attacking. Most are friendly, some try to act tough but are fairly easy to drive off. But it is good to be prepared! 

My brother road bikes and swears by a spray of water from his water bottle to warn off dogs who are chasing him- so if a water bottle is all you have- that's worth a try.


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Quick add- these are suggestions that may work. But they are still very very risky and could result in severe bodily injury! I just want to make that really clear. 

Again, there is no guaranteed safe way to break up a serious dog fight.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I have watched a video by Chris Fraize on how he breaks up a dog fight. If you want to see his technique he has a You Tube video. He explains why he does what he does but he also admits there is a very good chance of getting bitten. 

I have the idea in my head and I hope I never have to put it into practice.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

I've heard that each owner is supposed to grab their dog by the hind legs and then pull it apart from the other dog?

I also really hope I never have to do this!!


PS 
Beware of kicking the other dog...someone said they kicked a Great Dane that was attacking their dog, and it turned and bit them on the leg...a deep bite to the calf, they walked home with shoe filled with blood...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Breaking up shepherds is no fun. And yes, you can be bitten. Grabbing for a collar is, yeah, a good way to get bit. Normally, I am alone with two or more bitches going at it. I found it is best to get non-committed spectator-dogs out of the way first, then anyone who is in it, but not really in it, safely tucked away until you are down to your main combatants. Then I go for a tail. I grab a tail and drag one of the bitches to a gate and get one in and one out and then wait for the opportunity when one of the grips relax enough for me to gain ground. 

Mostly I manage it so that I haven't had a serious fight in years. Also, bitch fights are usually inter-pack fights, so they are my own dogs, no other owner to help, but no one likely to sue me either. 

I still say, get out of Dodge if you can. Keep your eyes on what's happening all the time, and avoid the situations, so you can prevent them.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

GSDchoice;9212347
Beware of kicking the other dog...someone said they kicked a Great Dane that was attacking their dog said:


> I had a smaller dog that got into a scrap with another dog over a bone. I reached in to break it up (being clueless) and my own dog turned and bit my leg. It was redirected anger and as soon as she realized what she had done the fight stopped. She felt whatever dogs feel when they look mortified. The other dog grabbed the treat and ran.
> 
> Dogs, in the heat of the moment, can and will bite attack anything that gets in the way.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

I feel like this shouldn’t have to be said but...

Please do not attempt to obtain a proficiency in the martial arts for the purpose of engaging in hand to hand combat with an animal. 

You can tune into live PD this week to see how that turns out. 

Stay strapped, bear spray, hardwood walking stick or a gun.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

"while I don't disagree with you I think anyone adopting "the breed that shall not be mentioned" would know it's also a formidable breed as well."

In my personal experience, I haven't had many issues with folks who own larger dogs. The problem dog owners in my area seem to all have purse dogs. It's so bizarre trying to explain to a full grown adult why it's a bad idea for their 10lb off leash schnoodle doodle doo to charge and nip at my 75lb Shep mix. But I've basically had to do that a couple dozen times and now my dog needs to be segregated from other dogs. Unfortunately, a lot of folks see small breeds as all the fun of a dog with none of the work.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

car2ner said:


> I had a smaller dog that got into a scrap with another dog over a bone. I reached in to break it up (being clueless) and my own dog turned and bit my leg. It was redirected anger and as soon as she realized what she had done the fight stopped. She felt whatever dogs feel when they look mortified. The other dog grabbed the treat and ran.
> 
> *Dogs, in the heat of the moment, can and will bite attack anything that gets in the way*.


Bolded, many will, but some are clear enough in their thinking and know who's grabbing onto them. Once Ranger and Ollie decided to really really not like each other we had the misfortune of breaking up a few fights. I always ended up wth Ranger and not once did he try to bite me, he was always freakishly calm about it.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

Dotbat215 said:


> "while I don't disagree with you I think anyone adopting "the breed that shall not be mentioned" would know it's also a formidable breed as well."
> 
> In my personal experience, I haven't had many issues with folks who own larger dogs. The problem dog owners in my area seem to all have purse dogs. It's so bizarre trying to explain to a full grown adult why it's a bad idea for their 10lb off leash schnoodle doodle doo to charge and nip at my 75lb Shep mix. But I've basically had to do that a couple dozen times and now my dog needs to be segregated from other dogs. Unfortunately, a lot of folks see small breeds as all the fun of a dog with none of the work.


Ugh I’m in the same boat. I have no idea why it’s socially acceptable for little dogs to act so vicious while the owner laughs it off. My dog understands at this point that they’re a nuisance and she doesn’t respond. But if one ever bit her hard enough and she did respond, I would feel no shame. I don’t even let her meet small dogs at this point. Most are poorly trained.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Bolded, many will, but some are clear enough in their thinking and know who's grabbing onto them. Once Ranger and Ollie decided to really really not like each other we had the misfortune of breaking up a few fights. I always ended up with Ranger and not once did he try to bite me, he was always freakishly calm about it.


I'm glad your dog understood that it was you and probably understood what you were trying to do. I watched a video the other day where a man with two dogs went after one smaller dog. The humans appeared to be in no danger as the attackers were focused on their prey. It was as if the humans didn't even matter much. But if those attacking dogs changed target he would have been in trouble.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

car2ner said:


> I'm glad your dog understood that it was you and probably understood what you were trying to do. I watched a video the other day where a man with two dogs went after one smaller dog. The humans appeared to be in no danger as the attackers were focused on their prey. It was as if the humans didn't even matter much. But if those attacking dogs changed target he would have been in trouble.


He's my only one who is like this. I'm not sure where it comes from, focus may be part of it. He's not reactive either and has lower prey drive than my others. He's not the norm though, caution is definitely warranted should folks find themselves in a situation where they need to intervene.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Yes, it is very common for a dog being bitten by another dog to redirect its bite to a human, even if it would normally never show aggression to a human. The pain just makes them lash out at the nearest thing they can get their mouth on, even if it's the owner they love!

Same goes for the attacking dog. Keep your hands out of the middle of a dog fight, or you WILL regret it!


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Nigel- I've experienced the same thing- did some really stupid stuff breaking up a fight like grabbing collars and sticking my face very near a dog's face. The shepherds seem quite "clear headed" even in a fight. I certainly wouldn't count on this, but it's been my experience. 

Different breeds are more likely to redirect or even direct the fight at a human. I haven't seen this with shepherds.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Muskeg, it depends on the dog. My GSD bit someone very seriously when another dog latched on his leg and wouldn't let go!

Never say never...:crying:

One of the first things they teach you in canine first aid is to protect yourself from being bitten by a dog that's in pain.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

Now here's an interesting way to stop a dog attack. An 88-year-old veteran didn't have any kind of weapon handy, so he used a . . . holiday nutcracker. It worked:

REMOVED- no pit bull attack stories allowed

You'll have to do edit/copy edit/paste to get the link to work.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Muskeg said:


> Nigel- I've experienced the same thing- did some really stupid stuff breaking up a fight like grabbing collars and sticking my face very near a dog's face. The shepherds seem quite "clear headed" even in a fight. I certainly wouldn't count on this, but it's been my experience.
> 
> Different breeds are more likely to redirect or even direct the fight at a human. *I haven't seen this with shepherds*.


I have. I put my hand into a dog fight trying to grab a collar and came away with stitches. 

And when I woke up because the bitch wanted out, I let her out, they were sleeping in crates in my room, because they had had WWIII when I came back from vacation. I went back to bed, and when I woke up, still half asleep, I thought I could let one out when I let the other one it. Arwen started it. She bit Jazzy in the back. Jazzy swung around and got ALL of my calf in her mouth. I thought, "That is going to leave a mark." 

I got the one in and the other out, and went to access the damages. ER. drain, antibiotics, punctures and black and blue and green and yellow and red all over. Yeah, took over a year to heal. 

Bitches. Bitches will keep you on your toes.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I think that it is important for people to keep in mind that ALL of the self defense tactics discussed have failed in real life scenarios and at best, should be deployed with nuisance dogs, not dogs that are truly dog aggressive with serious intentions. It is too easy to get lulled into a placebo effect if you rely on these tools much to the detriment of your dogs.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I think that it is important for people to keep in mind that ALL of the self defense tactics discussed have failed in real life scenarios and at best, should be deployed with nuisance dogs, not dogs that are truly dog aggressive with serious intentions. It is too easy to get lulled into a placebo effect if you rely on these tools much to the detriment of your dogs.


It’s best to stay away from situations where you would have to protect yourself or others from life threatening attacks if possible. They do not end well. I can’t post my extended family’s story because it is too graphic and I can’t mention details due to board rules, but the person who tried to break up the attack had no idea what she was dealing with. She managed to separate the small dog from the attacker using sheer brute force and adrenaline, but the dog lunged back for a second attack.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

JonRob said:


> Now here's an interesting way to stop a dog attack. An 88-year-old veteran didn't have any kind of weapon handy, so he used a . . . holiday nutcracker. It worked:
> 
> REMOVED- no pit bull attack stories allowed
> 
> You'll have to do edit/copy edit/paste to get the link to work.


Can you please message the link?


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> Can you please message the link?


Done. Thanks for asking.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I think that it is important for people to keep in mind that ALL of the self defense tactics discussed have failed in real life scenarios and at best, should be deployed with nuisance dogs, not dogs that are truly dog aggressive with serious intentions. It is too easy to get lulled into a placebo effect if you rely on these tools much to the detriment of your dogs.


Sad but true. I did post a description of a tactic that is just about guaranteed to stop a horribly aggressive attack but the mods deleted it. PM me if you want to know what it is.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

JonRob said:


> Sad but true. I did post a description of a tactic that is just about guaranteed to stop a horribly aggressive attack but the mods deleted it. PM me if you want to know what it is.


Could you please pm the link when you have time ? Thank you


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

huntergreen said:


> Could you please pm the link when you have time ? Thank you


Just sent it. Thanks for asking.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

germanshepowner said:


> That’s really smart. I was not being smart about keeping my hands away in that situation. I’m so thankful my SO wasn’t bit on the hand either. I’ll get a whistle as well with the spray I purchased. I feel like I’m going to need a larger bag on walks with all these new weapons!
> 
> I could just slap myself for also not getting the number of a witness nearby. So dumb. I was more worried about helping my SO and getting the dog owners number.


Here is my take for what it is worth. Based on your description of yourself, "tiny" a sturdy walking stick will not help against a formidable determined dog. The spray people are suggesting is not for sure. Might or might not work. Doesn't seem to be effective on the no bark collars for the malmute up the street from me. A baseball bat might work for you if you are willing to use it. No idea what the legal ramifications would be. I carry bear spray and wear eye protection. Older pair of bicycling sunglasses sealed around the edges. I also cary another item that could deliver lethal force if necessary. I was also trained in the military. Though it was years ago. I post this as I spent many years working in an ER. The worse dog attack I have ever seen was done by a beagle. This large man came to the ER missing a section of his lip, ear and his pectoral muscle hanging off his chest. Multiple bites on his face, arms and hands. Btw, this was his dog who was trying to climb into the newborns crib was his. Sorry for being graphic, but my point is, do not gain a false sense of security by carrying items that you think will protect you. Especially if if you're not trained in using them. As for needing a bigger bag, by the time you reach in to get whatever, it's too late. Be aware of your surroundings, and avoid potential problems is the best advice given.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

huntergreen said:


> germanshepowner said:
> 
> 
> > That’s really smart. I was not being smart about keeping my hands away in that situation. I’m so thankful my SO wasn’t bit on the hand either. I’ll get a whistle as well with the spray I purchased. I feel like I’m going to need a larger bag on walks with all these new weapons!
> ...


YUCK! That is terrible. In all honesty, we’re walking at off times now and staying in the yard more. I’m disgusted by other dog owners and just avoiding EVERY potential of a dog encounter now. That is horrifying about the beagle.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Off times and isolated areas are when and where people tend to be out and about with reactive or aggressive dogs. Right or wrong, don't shoot the messenger.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

germanshepowner said:


> YUCK! That is terrible. In all honesty, we’re walking at off times now and staying in the yard more. I’m disgusted by other dog owners and just avoiding EVERY potential of a dog encounter now. That is horrifying about the beagle.


I was shocked when I found out it was beagle. Again my point was, be safe. Even small animals can be ferocious. All this being said, I wouldn't consider restricting yourself to your yard, go out and enjoy your dog. Just be alert to potential situations and avoid. you have already learned not to bring toys. Be alert to your dog, he/she will most likely see potential issues before you do. Always give a wide birth to dogs on flexi collars, Haiti collars and dogs with a leash attached to a harness. Generally the owners are clueless.


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## herojig (Apr 3, 2013)

I just wish we had parks here... and lease laws, sprays, bite sticks, all the rest. We got nothing, not even Amazon, and we have to deal with 50,000+ dogs just lying around in the gutters looking for food. Wow, different worlds.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Off times and isolated areas are when and where people tend to be out and about with reactive or aggressive dogs. Right or wrong, don't shoot the messenger.


That depends on location. Off times here all I ever see in parks or near hiking trails are gardeners or volunteers.


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## CAROLINM (Mar 30, 2018)

herojig said:


> I just wish we had parks here... and lease laws, sprays, bite sticks, all the rest. We got nothing, not even Amazon, and we have to deal with 50,000+ dogs just lying around in the gutters looking for food. Wow, different worlds.



Same here (Mexico). Lots of dogs at some areas in the city, several strays. But we have Amazon, though we have no many things available, but will surely get those sprays that are being mentioned.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> That depends on location. Off times here all I ever see in parks or near hiking trails are gardeners or volunteers.


Go deeper into the parks and woods where you don't see people.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Go deeper into the parks and woods where you don't see people.


People working don’t bother me. I kind of like knowing there is someone nearby if I have an emergency.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> People working don’t bother me. I kind of like knowing there is someone nearby if I have an emergency.


If you have an aggressive dog, people working could be problematic.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> If you have an aggressive dog, people working could be problematic.


Mine are fine with people who aren’t threatening.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> Mine are fine with people who aren’t threatening.


A lot of GSDs find people in isolated areas as suspicious. I have even had GSDs that found people in parks without dogs as suspicious. 

The other day we discovered a woman alone in a very isolated and not all that safe area. Even I was suspicious.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> A lot of GSDs find people in isolated areas as suspicious. I have even had GSDs that found people in parks without dogs as suspicious.
> 
> The other day we discovered a woman alone in a very isolated and not all that safe area. Even I was suspicious.


Maybe there was a reason to be suspicious of her. Don’t worry, I actually don’t get too close because I don’t want distractions. We are there to sniff, to explore, to exercise, not to meet people.


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