# Dont cuddle your GSD or give to much attention?



## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Hey everyone,

I'm new here and would like some advice. I just got a 7 week old GSD yesterday. When we went to pick him up from the breeder I was holding my GSD puppy in my arms and was telling him (the dog) how much I'm going to love him. The breeder looked at me and said "don't love him to much, don't baby him". I asked him to clarify and he pretty much said that the more I ignore him the more affection and approval he will want from me and that because I need to be the pack leader that I need to not be affectionate with him or give him so much attention. He said If I "baby" him to much that he wont listen and not be a good dog, and he said I have to be like that with him for about 2 years. I looked at my husband in confusion and the breeder said "I am serious, I don't want you to bring him back to me in a few months because you didn't listen to me". 

On the car ride home my husband said to me that as I was putting our new puppy in the car the breeder said "Seriously. don't let her baby him to much". That really pissed me off. Now, I never owned a GSD before but I am not going to let him run the house. I do have boundaries in the home. I will train. I don't let him do whatever he wants. He isn't a loud on our bed or couch. I don't go to him with every whine he makes and I don't constantly smother him with hugs and kisses. But are you telling me that if I want a cuddle after work or to watch a movie or something with him sleeping next to or on my lap that I will damage my dog? That he wont listen? That he wont take me seriously? I don't think this process will be a easy one. I want a good dog, but I also want a dog I can love and be affectionate with at times. I picked him up this morning to give him a tiny peck on the head and a hello and my husband looked at me like I started the apocalypse.

I don't know how to act around this puppy now. Wouldn't ignoring him turn him into an anti social dog? Ugh. Please help! 

Also here is a pic of my puppy. How could you ignore that for 2 years? sorry its so big!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

What he probably meant by that is don't let bad behaviors, things you don't want him to do get started. Its easier to teach things right, then it is to try and correct them. Like if you don't want him begging while you eat, don't encourage it by giving him sample from your dinner. A lot of them don't automatically like being cuddled and kissed, but if he does, go ahead.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

First, let me say that I agree with Steve's probable reframe of what your breeder said. Limits/boundaries _are _important and, more often than not, people get into difficulties with their pups (and children!) by not setting and reinforcing appropriate, age-based limits or by lacking consistency in their training/rearing approach. 

That said, I'd also like to address the likely subtext of your breeder's message. You CANNOT spoil or otherwise ruin a puppy (or a child!) by loving and cuddling it. You CAN spoil or ruin an otherwise good dog (or child!) by raising it without appropriate boundaries/limits or by failing to consistently shape appropriate behavior (e.g., manners, houstraining, etc). I've found that people often conflate the two (that is, affection/cuddling = no or erratic training) --- which is detrimental to the pup's development and to the owner's relationship with the puppy/dog/child. One is a stylistic difference (affection/cuddling) and the other is substantive (setting appropriate boundaries/training). I've also found that this confusion is more common among male than female humans --- for reasons that are beyond the scope of this post. Certainly puppies, particularly working breeds, need a strong leader but that strength, if you will, goes to character and consistency, not to stylistic differences. 

Rant over...


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

The breeder's comments were probably well intended......and maybe a bit exaggerated.......most likely trying to make a point which does have some merit to it......depending on the nature of the pup....and the type of bond you create.



Lots of problems can be avoided from day one as Steve suggested.......train/interact with your pup today for what you want tomorrow.


Not that this link is particular to your situation........but down the road it might make much more sense if you get to where some of these opinions are applicable to your relationship with your dog. 



Read the "King of the Castle" syndrome and it might shed some light on your breeder's comments. https://k9deb.com/socialis#King_of_the_castle_syndrome




Have fun with your new pup.........and guide him wisely and brightly.




SuperG


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

OP, 

In my above post, I neglected to stress a few things; ranting got the better of me. LOL. First, this is a _baby. _ You've taken him from his mother and siblings, everything he's known about the world thus far. I always feel slightly guilty when picking up a new pup for exactly that reason. I don't overindulge them, mind you, but I do keep that in mind during my interactions with the little ones. Second, I am very physical with all of my animals. Partially, it's because that's who I am. But, I also want them to become accustomed to and accepting of my touch and handling. Heck, I want them to delight in it; that will become a useful tool later (e.g., at the vet, in scary situations, etc.). Over the years, a light hand on the shoulder blades has kept more than a few from tumbling into wrong choices in stressful situations. That wasn't accomplished overnight, it took time and training. 

Finally, you have to think about what kind of relationship you want with this puppy as it grows up. Personally, I want a relationship where the dog _Looks At Me_ when I say something, _Looks To Me_ for direction and reinforcement, and finds me _The Most Interesting and Enjoyable Thing On The Planet_. I start working towards that goal from the moment the puppy trots in the door. But, I am not going to achieve that goal by ignoring the puppy, as described above.

You might find _focus _or _engagement _training to be useful. Below is a link to a relevant forum discussion (google for others) as well as a link to Stoney Dennis's approach to engagement (search youtube for other videos as you like/need).

_Enjoy _your adorable puppy!

https://www.germanshepherds.com/for...gagement-not-obedience-1st-goal-training.html

Stoney Dennis:


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Interesting topic for sure and one that I'll follow. 



Cute pup for sure and I can understand how it's hard not to be affectionate with something so adorable. One point I'd like to mention...the breeder is already conditioned not to get too attached the pups. It was likely just a well intended, normal reaction for him when he see's someone getting all googly eyes and affectionate with one of his pups. 



I raised my first 2 with a fair but controlled amount of affection...who wouldn't? And neither of my 2 girls turned out bad. In fact my daughter (young at the time) probably went over board with spoiling the dogs with no ill effect. The key thing is controlling the affection while maintaining proper training. GSD's are programmed to be an alpha and they constantly try to gain that position. If you let your pup become the alpha, for sure your going to have problems and likely end up wanting to re-home the dog. 



It's an awesome experience to raise a GSD from that age. Enjoy the experience and let your pup grow up in a sound and controlled environment, with some cuddly affection thrown in when appropriate.


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

@Steve He actually is a very affectionate pup. I just felt the breeder made it sound like I couldnt give it ANY love. I also got the feeling that because I am women he thought I would be a softy and would want to "mother" it. I do understand the meaning of setting boundaries, and not spoiling in a way where they get whatever they want. It is my first dog and I want to do it right. I researched the breed before we decided on a GSD and I never read "dont love it". I always read set boundaries and be consistent which I absolutely agree with. 

@SuperG thank you for the article, it was very insightful and I understand the point of it.

@Aly Thank you. Everything you said made complete sense to me. I kind of always compared with raising a dog to raising children. I dont have any kids but I know well balanced children have a mix of love and rules/boundaries. I didnt think cuddling my dog could ruin him either and I would never force a cuddle. 

I am glad a forum like this exists. I have read so much already in other threads about the puppy faze and what I can expect going forward. This place will be really helpful for us to raise a (hopefully) well behaved happy pup.


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Aly said:


> OP,
> 
> In my above post, I neglected to stress a few things; ranting got the better of me. LOL. First, this is a _baby. _ You've taken him from his mother and siblings, everything he's known about the world thus far. I always feel slightly guilty when picking up a new pup for exactly that reason. I don't overindulge them, mind you, but I do keep that in mind during my interactions with the little ones. Second, I am very physical with all of my animals. Partially, it's because that's who I am. But, I also want them to become accustomed to and accepting of my touch and handling. Heck, I want them to delight in it; that will become a useful tool later (e.g., at the vet, in scary situations, etc.). Over the years, a light hand on the shoulder blades has kept more than a few from tumbling into wrong choices in stressful situations. That wasn't accomplished overnight, it took time and training.
> 
> ...


Yes! I said the same thing to my husband. I want him to be friendly and to know touch is okay. I know when my cat is at the vet or stressed me petting her calms her down. I would love the relationship with my pup that you describe. I am home more than my husband so I want to be the alpha and the person he turns to for direction.

Thank you so much for the video! I have been watching Zak George videos as well. The breeder said not to start training until a couple weeks after we get him so he can de-stress. Is that right? I wanted to start right away and he does a have a listening problem although I guess thats normal for right now, I mean he barely knows us.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I tell people not to baby their dogs on a daily basis. I would assume, the breeder is referring o Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF). As others have said most "behavioral" issues are human created. Surf through the K9-Deb site already mentioned. It has a ton of great info on it.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

As I read this, I had just been lying on a big orthopedic dog bed snuggling my 7-yo dog, who survived cancer last year. As I massaged his shoulders and chest, he rolled into me and purred like a cat in pure delight. This dog adores me. He travels with me. He nearly always has an eye on me. He's emotionally connected. Isn't that deep emotional connection one of the traits we love in the breed? It would be sad to me to lose our snuggling time -- even later in life, it still means so much to him (and to me!).


I think Aly's post is spot on -- bad manners (like arm-flipping with the muzzle to demand to be pet, or jumping up for attention seeking) aren't the product of being loved and getting affection from the owner. That's just a matter of establishing boundaries and shaping desired behavior, as others have said. You don't give the affection when it does undesirable things. You connect the affection to desirable behavior. They understand cause and effect. More importantly, when you have a bond, it will want to please you -- and you're not going to get a bond by ignoring the dog all the time!


You have to decide if you want dogs on the bed and sofa. I have friends who have well mannered dogs that sleep on the furniture. I personally prefer not to do it and have dog beds next to the bed and sofa instead. That's purely personal preference -- we have 3 dogs, and usually a foster so that's just too many dogs to have jockeying for a place on the furniture. However, my friends' dogs aren't "ruined" because they're allowed to snuggle with humans up on the couch or in bed...they are still good dogs because they have good owners who have spent lots of time working to teach them to be the kind of dogs they want them to be.


FWIW, a very loved dog that you spend lots of time with playing fun, happy obedience games, with lots of rewards (including being pet as a reward) will end up being a very well mannered dog! That kind of quality time will make the dog love to be with you.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Huge difference between babying and loving. You cannot ruin a dog by loving it. Or being affectionate.
I don't train puppies. I let them be babies while conditioning to house rules. I don't pet jumping dogs. I don't allow thievery. I don't reward toileting in the house. We play. We chase. We cuddle. 
I hope the breeder was simply misunderstood.


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Magwart said:


> As I read this, I had just been lying on a big orthopedic dog bed snuggling my 7-yo dog, who survived cancer last year. As I massaged his shoulders and chest, he rolled into me and purred like a cat in pure delight. This dog adores me. He travels with me. He nearly always has an eye on me. He's emotionally connected. Isn't that deep emotional connection one of the traits we love in the breed? It would be sad to me to lose our snuggling time -- even later in life, it still means so much to him (and to me!).
> 
> 
> I think Aly's post is spot on -- bad manners (like arm-flipping with the muzzle to demand to be pet, or jumping up for attention seeking) aren't the product of being loved and cuddled. That's just a matter of establishing boundaries and shaping desired behavior, as others have said.
> ...


Thank you so much! This really made me really happy to read!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

mycobraracr said:


> I tell people not to baby their dogs on a daily basis. I would assume, the breeder is referring o Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF). As others have said most "behavioral" issues are human created. Surf through the K9-Deb site already mentioned. It has a ton of great info on it.


I've seen video of you lovin on puppies!:wink2:


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> Huge difference between babying and loving. You cannot ruin a dog by loving it. Or being affectionate.
> I don't train puppies. I let them be babies while conditioning to house rules. I don't pet jumping dogs. I don't allow thievery. I don't reward toileting in the house. We play. We chase. We cuddle.
> I hope the breeder was simply misunderstood.


I agree with everything you said. At what age do you start obedience training? My breeder said to just let him be a puppy for a couple weeks while he adjusts to his new home. Of course we potty train and redirected mouthing but when should I start teaching things like listening, sit, stay etc...


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

Sabis mom said:


> Huge difference between babying and loving. You cannot ruin a dog by loving it. Or being affectionate.
> I don't train puppies. I let them be babies while conditioning to house rules. I don't pet jumping dogs. I don't allow thievery. I don't reward toileting in the house. We play. We chase. We cuddle.
> I hope the breeder was simply misunderstood.


Totally agree with this! I have strict boundaries in the house from day one. My puppy is already better trained in many ways than the typical family dog. But also spoil my dog like a baby in other ways. Plus.. I wanted a dog that wanted to come cuddle on the couch. I got a pet.. Not a working dog!


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

germanshepowner said:


> Totally agree with this! I have strict boundaries in the house from day one. My puppy is already better trained in many ways than the typical family dog. But also spoil my dog like a baby in other ways. Plus.. I wanted a dog that wanted to come cuddle on the couch. I got a pet.. Not a working dog!



Yes! Thats what I told my husband. I said I wanted a pet. What was the point in getting a dog I cant be loving to or cuddle with?? I have a cat who is not affectionate and just wants to be left alone...If i didn't want a pet to love on I wouldn't of added a dog to my house hold.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Sabis mom said:


> I've seen video of you lovin on puppies!:wink2:




Haha you said it, there is a difference between loving puppies and babying them. So far everyone has hit some key points. It's all about clear communication and setting boundaries. Don't let a puppy do things that you don't want an adult dog to do. Don't feed the dog from the table, don't coddle it when it's scared/whining. Things like that. I mean I snuggle the crap out of my dogs haha. Heck this is my morning ritual with my foster dog. 
49204713_2256084971343046_5019479595380899840_n by Jeremy Friedman, on Flickr


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

germanshepowner said:


> Totally agree with this! I have strict boundaries in the house from day one. My puppy is already better trained in many ways than the typical family dog. But also spoil my dog like a baby in other ways. Plus.. I wanted a dog that wanted to come cuddle on the couch. I got a pet.. Not a working dog!


Like it or not they are a working dog. Even my current useless, genetic nightmare knows what she is. 
Also my actual working dogs hung out, slept with me, kept my feet toasty and mooched popcorn.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

Soakette said:


> ... Thank you so much for the video! I have been watching Zak George videos as well. The breeder said not to start training until a couple weeks after we get him so he can de-stress. Is that right? I wanted to start right away and he does a have a listening problem although I guess thats normal for right now, I mean he barely knows us.


Welcome. As to your question, well, I have a slightly different take on things. I believe that, from the moment they come home with you, _everything that you do with a puppy/adolescent/adult is training_ --- from teaching the pup its name, to teaching the pup your daily schedule, to showing it where to go potty, to introducing the dreaded crate. . It's ALL training. Is it structured, formal obedience training? No, it is not; they're too young for that. But it _is _training and, for the best effect, should be conscious and mindful. 

Think about it this way: Why wait 2 weeks (or whatever it is) to teach the puppy it's name? Or, to look at you when you talk to it? Perhaps the breeder meant that you should give the puppy time to adjust to the new people and surroundings before starting more structured interactions (e.g., teaching Sit, Come, etc). That's not unreasonable, but, in my view, the delay isn't necessary. Adjusting your expectations and approach to the puppy's age and developmental status are.

I've found clicker training a useful approach with the little ones, mainly because it sharpens the handler's timing and really clarifies (for the pup, I mean) what the task/demand is. Lots of helpful videos about clicker training on youtube. With young puppies, I've also found that very short (e.g., 5 minute) sessions that _always _end on a positive note to be most effective. 

You also might find it helpful to simply call/email the breeder and ask what he meant by this and his previous comments w/re cuddling. You might find that his intention wasn't what it might have appeared to be. (Though I do agree with you about the curious flavor of gender bias in what you described). More generally, I've found that forum members are a golden resource for novice and experienced owners alike. But even the best are only guessing when it comes to the breeder's meaning/intent.

ETA: Welcome to the forum! What's your (adorable) puppy's name, by the way?


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

All puppies are cute, but I have to say yours is extra adorable! No way in **** would I be able to keep my hands off lol! I think everyone else covered the bases, you can express love and affection just don’t coddle them or ignore negative behaviors. I’m one of those that permit my dogs to sleep in bed with me and our every morning ritual is to cuddle and take turns getting belly rubs.


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Aly said:


> ETA: Welcome to the forum! What's your (adorable) puppy's name, by the way?


Thank You! His name is Caius! We are doing little training, like potty training and crate training. I really want to teach him his name so I will get on that!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Soakette said:


> I agree with everything you said. At what age do you start obedience training? My breeder said to just let him be a puppy for a couple weeks while he adjusts to his new home. Of course we potty train and redirected mouthing but when should I start teaching things like listening, sit, stay etc...


I start sit pretty young but not any structured obedience until 6-12 months depending on the dog and it's actually purpose. 
Let me be clear. Puppies learn best through play so they learn come by me running away, they learn sit by me luring and rewarding when they do. They learn to check in and watch me while playing by me hiding on them.
I lay all my groundwork with no structured training sessions. I bond with them and let them learn to take direction. When I start training I am starting with dogs that are conditioned to accept direction.
But I am just a dog lover and others who compete and actually train have different/better ways.


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

atomic said:


> All puppies are cute, but I have to say yours is extra adorable! No way in **** would I be able to keep my hands off lol! I think everyone else covered the bases, you can express love and affection just don’t coddle them or ignore negative behaviors. I’m one of those that permit my dogs to sleep in bed with me and our every morning ritual is to cuddle and take turns getting belly rubs.


Thank you! We only dont allow him on furniture right now to teach boundaries (he actually cant climb stairs to well yet so he hasnt even been on the upper floor where our bedroom is). Eventually when he is well trained and we have taught him to listen we wont have a problem with him on the couch or bed with us. I cant wait to cuddle him in the mornings in bed!


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

Soakette said:


> Thank You! His name is Caius! We are doing little training, like potty training and crate training. I really want to teach him his name so I will get on that!


That's dead easy. Just use it in all of your interactions. For example, when you see him each morning, say "Hi, Caius!" in a happy voice. Whenever you cuddle say, "Good Caius" multiple times in a soothing voice. When you take him out for potty breaks, say "Caius, Potty Time!" When you feed him, use a happy voice and say, "Caius, Dinner!" 

He'll know his name by the end of the week. :smile2:

ETA: Just don't pair his name with a correction. I actually knew of an incorrigible dog who thought (with good reason) that her name was HeatherNO!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Magwart said:


> As I read this, I had just been lying on a big orthopedic dog bed snuggling my 7-yo dog, who survived cancer last year. As I massaged his shoulders and chest, he rolled into me and purred like a cat in pure delight. This dog adores me. He travels with me. He nearly always has an eye on me. He's emotionally connected. Isn't that deep emotional connection one of the traits we love in the breed? It would be sad to me to lose our snuggling time -- even later in life, it still means so much to him (and to me!).
> 
> 
> I think Aly's post is spot on -- bad manners (like arm-flipping with the muzzle to demand to be pet, or jumping up for attention seeking) aren't the product of being loved and getting affection from the owner. That's just a matter of establishing boundaries and shaping desired behavior, as others have said. You don't give the affection when it does undesirable things. You connect the affection to desirable behavior. They understand cause and effect. More importantly, when you have a bond, it will want to please you -- and you're not going to get a bond by ignoring the dog all the time!
> ...


2 Things come to my mind- like what Magwart said, don't love on your dog constantly even when they are doing bad things. Affection can and will reinforce behaviors.

Other thing, and this is a biggie I think-- is that they do need good leadership. Affection in the absence of sound leadership is a problem. Sound leadership with affection in my opinion is A OK. My dogs have varying interest in hugs and kisses. My white do loves hugs and kisses and snuggling. As soon as I sit on the couch in my spot, he immediately jumps up in his spot which is smooshed against me. We both enjoy this for TV time.

He sleeps in bed with us. My girl does not- her choice. But first thing in the morning she wants to get in and snuggle for a few minutes so I always make time to hug her because she is old and who knows how much time we have left. All she wants is 15 minutes for me to hug her, that's not so much to ask.

I think there are tons of well intentioned people who think love and snuggles is ALL you need to do with your dog and that just won't cut it, especially with a German Shepherd

They also need strong leadership, guidance, boundaries, discipline, but in my opinion there is no reason at all why physical affection can't be a part of it unless it is directly conflicting with one of these other important things.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

My .02 on this is probably what the breeder meant is letting them get away with bad habits and giving in to those puppy eyes.
It's a hard thing to do but you have to stick to your guns when they do something undesirable. 

For example. If you have to crate the dog and he's crying you can't let him out while he's crying. You're only teaching him that crying will let him get his way in that situation. So wait til he stops crying to let him out. Stuff like that.. Dog training is all about being a few steps ahead of your dog. I have friends that said "my puppy chewed my shoes up. Im so mad" I said well if you didn't leave the shoe accessible then he wouldn't have gotten it. So who's fault is it? He doesn't know any better. 

As for training I would absolutely start with at least some of the basics.. Recall is probably the most important thing you can teach your puppy cause it could save his life one day. What I did with Kai was I had my gf and I sit in the back yard away from each other and we took turns calling his name. When he came to us we rewarded him and made it a huge deal like he saved the planet. It's a fun way for him to learn his name, boosts his confidence, and he learns to associate recall with something positive. It's all about repetition. Reward for the behavior you like. 

Just be patient.
Enjoy you're puppy. He's a cutie..


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

Soakette said:


> germanshepowner said:
> 
> 
> > Totally agree with this! I have strict boundaries in the house from day one. My puppy is already better trained in many ways than the typical family dog. But also spoil my dog like a baby in other ways. Plus.. I wanted a dog that wanted to come cuddle on the couch. I got a pet.. Not a working dog!
> ...


Yes! If it’s not a working dog, why wouldn’t you cuddle it and love it?! Sheesh, that breeder was crazy.


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

slaen said:


> My .02 on this is probably what the breeder meant is letting them get away with bad habits and giving in to those puppy eyes.
> It's a hard thing to do but you have to stick to your guns when they do something undesirable.
> 
> For example. If you have to crate the dog and he's crying you can't let him out while he's crying. You're only teaching him that crying will let him get his way in that situation. So wait til he stops crying to let him out. Stuff like that.. Dog training is all about being a few steps ahead of your dog. I have friends that said "my puppy chewed my shoes up. Im so mad" I said well if you didn't leave the shoe accessible then he wouldn't have gotten it. So who's fault is it? He doesn't know any better.
> ...


Thank you so much for those tips! I will use them for sure!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Both mine are "working"/sport dogs. They sleep with me, lay on the furniture and watch tv with me. And the big one just put his fat butt thru a china closet door because the small one was jumping all over him so everyone is crated right now.


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## Nikka Khrystyne (May 14, 2018)

I agree with what everyone has said above about not letting your puppy slide with things when he’s little that you wouldn’t want him to do when he’s older. 

As far as affection- If he wants it I say give it to him. My Odin, whose 9 months, has always loved affection. He will just come up to you and lay across your lap or snuggle with you on the couch. 

His sister Layla, who we have from the same liter, is not big on affection. And will let you know when she’s had enough. 

If the dogs comfortable, give it affection. If it seems to not want it a lot then don’t. 

I feel like some people don’t respect a dogs boundaries sometimes. Layla will make it very clear she doesn’t want affection, and when people come over we let them know that. They still get in her face and I end up having to have a sternly tell guest that she’s letting you know she doesn’t want you touching her. She will usually just come by me when people are over or I will have to tell people to not touch my dog.

I agree that even though they are cute to not let them get away with stuff. Especially when they are going through the phase where they are contestant testing you! Which they will.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Use common sense, train appropriate skills for the dog’s age, and cuddle when you want to. I got an 8 week old WL who hated cuddling, he hated restraint and bite anything that came within reach of his teeth. I spent a long time teaching him to like hugs and necessary restraints, like at the vet, and now he cuddles any time I want him to. I also have firm boundaries and rules. It works.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I don’t have much to add but I think the breeder meant no harm but just to say there must be boundaries there is always that balance. Not to say don’t give love and affection. Every dog benefits from some sort of physical affection - how much depends on the dog. Some dogs do not like it and some dogs like it and some dogs love it. The best part of the day is snuggling and giving affection and love to my dogs. There are also rules in place. It’s very natural. They are well behaved so they do get the benefits sleeping on furniture and the bed. First it started out on one chair then it is all the chairs couches a very planned and gradual move on their part very smart. Snuggle time with kids.
























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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Jenny720 said:


> I don’t have much to add but I think the breeder meant no harm but just to say there must be boundaries there is always that balance. Not to say don’t give love and affection. Every dog benefits from some sort of physical affection - how much depends on the dog. Some dogs do not like it and some dogs like it and some dogs love it. The best part of the day is snuggling and giving affection and love to my dogs. There are also rules in place. It’s very natural. They are well behaved so they do get the benefits sleeping on furniture and the bed. First it started out on one chair then it is all the chairs couches a very planned and gradual move on their part very smart. Snuggle time with kids.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your dogs are sooo cute! I love those pics. Makes my heart happy to see a dog snuggled up.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

@Jenny720, is there _really _a kid in that third photo? 

:grin2:


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

simple, don't spoil your dog. don't treat them like a baby. My big-boy is not a cuddler. He was over a year old when he finally figured out that each touch was not an invitation to wrestle. Now he asks for quick chest scratching. If he does snuggle it only lasts about 10 minutes at most. My gal-dog, on the other hand, loves some physical contact and will nap on the couch with her rump touching someone's leg. 

I agree with everyone else that clear fair rules in the house is what is most important. If a pet is allowed on the bed, they must get down when told to without complaint aside from "gee, momanddad, I was comfortable". If they want to be pet or to play that is wonderful, so long as they aren't a constant nuisance about it. They need to realize there has to be calm time, too.


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## Dayna (Jun 27, 2018)

I've had my gsd for about 10 months. Got her about the same age as yours. I loaded her up with affection since day one. She's a great dog. She's obedient and focused. She's still a puppy, so of course she's playful and excited, but that's her right, in my opinion. A lot of people think they're experts and will try to tell you how to raise your dog. Trust your own intuition on whether their advice has merit. Love your dog and your dog will love you. Hopefully you're husband will realize it on his own


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Aly said:


> @Jenny720, is there _really _a kid in that third photo?
> 
> /forum/images/Germanshepherds_2016/smilies/tango_face_grin.png[/IMG
> 
> Lol somewhere ! My turn lol


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Dayna said:


> I've had my gsd for about 10 months. Got her about the same age as yours. I loaded her up with affection since day one. She's a great dog. She's obedient and focused. She's still a puppy, so of course she's playful and excited, but that's her right, in my opinion. A lot of people think they're experts and will try to tell you how to raise your dog. Trust your own intuition on whether their advice has merit. Love your dog and your dog will love you. Hopefully you're husband will realize it on his own


Im so happy to hear that. Speaking of the husband. I cought him last night with Caius sleeping on him on the COUCH! We agreed no dog on the couch until we teach him the off command. I said "I thought no babying" he just looks at me and smiles. Even he cant resist that cute face!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I know you said this is your first German Shepherd, but have you and your husband raised any other dogs?


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Steve Strom said:


> I know you said this is your first German Shepherd, but have you and your husband raised any other dogs?


He has not. I helped raise my moms dog when I lived with her. A deaf shih tzu.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Now you have a very alert, attentive breed. One that certain amounts of aggression are expected. Everything about him should be stronger and a lot more determined then your other dog. My broken record favorite phrase I post over and over is " Their perception is our reality" You and your husband could be doing exactly the same thing, and he could perceive that as completely the opposite. When it comes to the rules of the house, those are the kinds of things you want to pay attention to. How accepting and willing he is with both of you. How respectful he is of both of you. Not excitement and "love". Respect. Is there ever any sign he's feeling competitive about something? That toy, treat, food? That spot on the floor or couch? Who's petting him. Some dogs, things like that don't come up. Sleeping on the couch will never lead to other problems. Some dogs, something simple like that is going to open the gates to trouble. 

Those are the types of things that are easy for us to miss and you end up with one of those, surprise someone got bit moments.


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Steve Strom said:


> Now you have a very alert, attentive breed. One that certain amounts of aggression are expected. Everything about him should be stronger and a lot more determined then your other dog. My broken record favorite phrase I post over and over is " Their perception is our reality" You and your husband could be doing exactly the same thing, and he could perceive that as completely the opposite. When it comes to the rules of the house, those are the kinds of things you want to pay attention to. How accepting and willing he is with both of you. How respectful he is of both of you. Not excitement and "love". Respect. Is there ever any sign he's feeling competitive about something? That toy, treat, food? That spot on the floor or couch? Who's petting him. Some dogs, things like that don't come up. Sleeping on the couch will never lead to other problems. Some dogs, something simple like that is going to open the gates to trouble.
> 
> Those are the types of things that are easy for us to miss and you end up with one of those, surprise someone got bit moments.


Well this is our first GSD and thats why I am here. I want to learn from experienced owners so I dont screw up. I will stick around here as he grows to get as much information as possible and of course I will eventually be getting him into a training class. He hasnt shown any aggression towards food or toys. I think right now I really need help with his mouthing. He doesnt know how sharp those little teeth are and how hard his bite is. I say no or even try to yelp like his litter mates would. I cant walk around my living room or kitchen without him attacking my feet and he bites really hard. We try to redirect him with toys which works some of the time. If anyone has any tips to stop it please let me know! 

I am concerned when my sister and her kids come over. I dont want him to hurt them. I dont want them to feel they cant walk around my house without a dog biting their feet. I want to expose him to all kinds of people especially children.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Try something soft and a little large like a piece of fleece. Tie a line on it about 3' long and play with him with that so there's a little separation between your hands and what you want him to bite. Animate the fleece, movement for him to chase with you being calm and basically still. Get his focus on that to bite. think about direct, not redirect.The more he wants to bite that, the more you telling him no and witholding it will mean to him. Keep a light weight leash with no handle on him for right now, or use an x pen to keep him from chasing feet or anything else. Direct focus on whats appropriate to bite, no access to biting something else.

And from you're original post, this is a puppy I would think of not being one who really likes the cuddling so much right now. Calm, firm hands on him, but without being restrictive in his mind. Its not some set in stone rule to follow, but restricting builds frustration, pulling your hands away invites biting. Its a balance that's hard to type. With kids coming over, depends on the dog. Some of them get a real strong sense of routine and familiar people. Once they mature, kids they don't see and interact with regularly may be a problem in your house. You'll have to see as he grows.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Soakette said:


> Well this is our first GSD and thats why I am here. I want to learn from experienced owners so I dont screw up. I will stick around here as he grows to get as much information as possible and of course I will eventually be getting him into a training class. He hasnt shown any aggression towards food or toys. I think right now I really need help with his mouthing. He doesnt know how sharp those little teeth are and how hard his bite is. I say no or even *try to yelp like his litter mates would.* I cant walk around my living room or kitchen without him attacking my feet and he bites really hard. We try to redirect him with toys which works some of the time. If anyone has any tips to stop it please let me know!
> 
> I am concerned when my sister and her kids come over. I dont want him to hurt them. I dont want them to feel they cant walk around my house without a dog biting their feet. I want to expose him to all kinds of people especially children.


I would like to find the first person who ever advised this and do nasty things to them. Even a placid, low drive GSD puppy will find this method energizing. Sabi, who was the laziest puppy I've ever met, could be enticed to chasing toddlers by shrieking.
I have raised several of these little treasures with boots and gloves on, lol. The good news is they grow out of it. The only thing I have ever found that works is redirecting, and Steve's method sounds perfect. I use large, floppy stuffies that flop and move when shaken. They effectively protect hands and provide stuff to attack.


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> I would like to find the first person who ever advised this and do nasty things to them. Even a placid, low drive GSD puppy will find this method energizing. Sabi, who was the laziest puppy I've ever met, could be enticed to chasing toddlers by shrieking.
> I have raised several of these little treasures with boots and gloves on, lol. The good news is they grow out of it. The only thing I have ever found that works is redirecting, and Steve's method sounds perfect. I use large, floppy stuffies that flop and move when shaken. They effectively protect hands and provide stuff to attack.


Im sorry, I read that method online. See, thats why I am here. To learn from other owners who have more experience. I actually found a cat wand that my cat is no longer interested in that Caius loves. We play tug of war with it. I did read they grow out of it as they get older but do you think maybe teaching the leave it command can help as well?


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

Soakette said:


> Im sorry, I read that method online. See, thats why I am here. To learn from other owners who have more experience. I actually found a cat wand that my cat is no longer interested in that Caius loves. We play tug of war with it. I did read they grow out of it as they get older but do you think maybe teaching the leave it command can help as well?


On that note, since you have a cat, be prepared to keep a constant eye on that puppy once he finally notices there is a cat. Cats are the best to a puppy. They run, they meow, they cuddle the humans, and they're a complete mystery. They're dogish-shaped, but for some reason they don't speak dog and won't play or play properly.

Do your best to teach him to be gentle with the cat and not to chase it. We were unfortunately not very good at teaching the latter, but we got Jack to be as gentle as his oafish self can be with the kitties (I mean his head is the size of either of the cats, and his paw the size of either of their heads).


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

Yes, Leave It is a great thing to teach but maybe when he's just a tad older. YMMV. I expect that the cat wand may not last much longer LOL, so consider making your own puppy tug. Knot an old bathroom hand towel. Or, take the cut off leg from a pair of worn out jeans. Knot them in two places with about 6 inches between the two knots. You want to give the pup a place to clamp on (tho he may not do this reliably for a bit) so that your hands are safe at either end. Also, keep the tugs and/or fluffy toys that Steve suggested readily available (nearby bookshelf, say) so that you can easily offer something that he _can _bite.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Soakette said:


> Im sorry, I read that method online. See, thats why I am here. To learn from other owners who have more experience. I actually found a cat wand that my cat is no longer interested in that Caius loves. We play tug of war with it. I did read they grow out of it as they get older but do you think maybe teaching the leave it command can help as well?


Don't apologize. I was not slamming you. It just annoys me that people keep resurrecting this type of advice and passing it on to unsuspecting people.
I know someone who's teenage daughter ended up with a badly scarred face because the trainer at the rescue advised that method. The 6 month old shepherd cross was just playing and the girls yelping amped him up so bad that he tore a piece of her cheek apart. 
I have never seen a puppy that it did not rev up.


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

Kyrielle said:


> On that note, since you have a cat, be prepared to keep a constant eye on that puppy once he finally notices there is a cat. Cats are the best to a puppy. They run, they meow, they cuddle the humans, and they're a complete mystery. They're dogish-shaped, but for some reason they don't speak dog and won't play or play properly.
> 
> Do your best to teach him to be gentle with the cat and not to chase it. We were unfortunately not very good at teaching the latter, but we got Jack to be as gentle as his oafish self can be with the kitties (I mean his head is the size of either of the cats, and his paw the size of either of their heads).


Ah the cat. Yes we have a cat. She is not very cuddly tho. She is very independent and bit skiddish. She currently lives upstairs since Caius has came. They have had little interactions. She comes down sometimes to investigate, to see whats going on. When he notices her he will get up and stare. He does approach with caution though. He will take two steps forward, she will take two steps back, this continues until he gets excited does his puppy play stance and bark and then she runs upstairs. I would really like for them to be friends and for him to know she is apart of the family. Any advice on that? I was thinking of bringing her downstairs while he is crated in the living room and having them kinda smell and look at each other. 

Yesterday Caius and I were playing and I caught her staring at us from the stairs. I tried to encourage her to come down but she just stayed there staring.. I got a photo of it....


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## wm97 (Dec 13, 2018)

Are you letting the dog poop anywhere it wants? Are you letting it bite everyone and chew up anything it wants? Are you letting it run wild and bother everyone even when it isn't wanted?

My guess is, probably not. if not, lavish all the love you have on the puppy. To them, affection is just as rewarding as food, and the more time they spend with you, the more they learn your behavior limits. Unless you are still changing the dog's diapers when it is five years old, you probably can't spoil it. Science says that dogs have a brain that is roughly equivalent to a two or three year old child. How much love does a human baby need?


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## nancibaren (Jan 8, 2016)

my breeder said the same thing, which I promptly IGNORED
trained him as I would any dog
he is protective when appropriate, calm meeting new folks, friendly with children
he understands that I am the boss [pack leader]
is only affectionate with me, extremely well behaved
I still cuddle him even though he outweighs me now
just don't "spoil" him
nanci


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Soakette said:


> Ah the cat. Yes we have a cat. She is not very cuddly tho. She is very independent and bit skiddish. She currently lives upstairs since Caius has came. They have had little interactions. She comes down sometimes to investigate, to see whats going on. When he notices her he will get up and stare. He does approach with caution though. He will take two steps forward, she will take two steps back, this continues until he gets excited does his puppy play stance and bark and then she runs upstairs. I would really like for them to be friends and for him to know she is apart of the family. Any advice on that? I was thinking of bringing her downstairs while he is crated in the living room and having them kinda smell and look at each other.
> 
> Yesterday Caius and I were playing and I caught her staring at us from the stairs. I tried to encourage her to come down but she just stayed there staring.. I got a photo of it....


It sounds like your cat is starting to get more comfortable and curious, sooo they seem to be doing well! While dogs don't speak cat, and visa versa, they both communicate with body language WAY more than humans. 

If it were me, I'd just let them handle it (though correct the puppy for any over-exuberant chasing while they work out the finer points LOL!). 

Great photo BTW!


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## wm97 (Dec 13, 2018)

*Invest in a coverlet for your bed*



Soakette said:


> Thank you! We only dont allow him on furniture right now to teach boundaries (he actually cant climb stairs to well yet so he hasnt even been on the upper floor where our bedroom is). Eventually when he is well trained and we have taught him to listen we wont have a problem with him on the couch or bed with us. I cant wait to cuddle him in the mornings in bed!


If you are planning to allow him on the bed, invest in a coverlet for the bed now. It will save a lot sheet washing.


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## deedeearmstrong (Sep 5, 2018)

I would put your puppy in obedience class , GSD's are smart.https://youtu.be/wmdD0d0wyNQ,This is great.I have a treadmill and I am constantly doing obedience training. I stress socialization because I got my GSD at 5 years old and she has fear aggression and attacks other dogs, which we are working on.


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## Soakette (Jan 6, 2019)

deedeearmstrong said:


> I would put your puppy in obedience class , GSD's are smart.https://youtu.be/wmdD0d0wyNQ,This is great.I have a treadmill and I am constantly doing obedience training. I stress socialization because I got my GSD at 5 years old and she has fear aggression and attacks other dogs, which we are working on.


The link doesnt seem to be working for me (error 404) but yes I do plan on taking him to classes



tim_s_adams said:


> It sounds like your cat is starting to get more comfortable and curious, sooo they seem to be doing well! While dogs don't speak cat, and visa versa, they both communicate with body language WAY more than humans.
> 
> If it were me, I'd just let them handle it (though correct the puppy for any over-exuberant chasing while they work out the finer points LOL!).
> 
> Great photo BTW!


Ha yes she is coming down more and more. I actually picked up Caius and brought him to my cat and tried to get close with him in my arms. She actually moved closer and they touched noses while smelling each other which I was really pleased with. So glad he didnt try to mouth her since he thinks everything and everyone else is fair game!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Soakette said:


> ...Ha yes she is coming down more and more. I actually picked up Caius and brought him to my cat and tried to get close with him in my arms. She actually moved closer and they touched noses while smelling each other which I was really pleased with. So glad he didnt try to mouth her since he thinks everything and everyone else is fair game!


While that, holding the puppy up to touch noses with the cat, seems like progress, I wouldn't advise it! Your puppy and your cat seem to be working out each others boundaries and signals just fine on their own! Let them slowly teach each other what IS and IS NOT acceptable - in their own way and time. Then one day soon you'll find them sleeping together >

Anyway, just my opinion, but I've seen it happen soo many times. When humans intervene, other than to keep one or the other animal from being hurt, what happens is you sort of disrupt the communication between the two animals, and inadvertently can cause a set back. Leave them be as long as nobody is getting hurt, and enjoy their learning process! It is amazing, but cats and dogs often form very strong friendships!


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## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

*cuddle?*



Soakette said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I'm new here and would like some advice. I just got a 7 week old GSD yesterday. When we went to pick him up from the breeder I was holding my GSD puppy in my arms and was telling him (the dog) how much I'm going to love him. The breeder looked at me and said "don't love him to much, don't baby him". I asked him to clarify and he pretty much said that the more I ignore him the more affection and approval he will want from me and that because I need to be the pack leader that I need to not be affectionate with him or give him so much attention. He said If I "baby" him to much that he wont listen and not be a good dog, and he said I have to be like that with him for about 2 years. I looked at my husband in confusion and the breeder said "I am serious, I don't want you to bring him back to me in a few months because you didn't listen to me".
> 
> ...


 aww to cute=cuddle,cuddle,cuddle=how can you not?


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## Dionne2u (Nov 5, 2018)

Love your dog how you and it wants.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

Sabis mom said:


> Soakette said:
> 
> 
> > Im sorry, I read that method online. See, thats why I am here. To learn from other owners who have more experience. I actually found a cat wand that my cat is no longer interested in that Caius loves. We play tug of war with it. I did read they grow out of it as they get older but do you think maybe teaching the leave it command can help as well?
> ...


This makes me so mad because I’ve heard that advice from several people! Our landshark was so bad that we even briefly tried it under the advice of a professional trainer just to see if it worked because we were desperate and it totally did NOT work and just prolonged how long it took! She’s 5 months now and still on occasion tries a nip to see if anyone makes a fun noise!! ARGH


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