# opinions on this breeder?



## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

Any thoughts or information on this breeder? A post or pm would be welcome.

http://www.gsdbydesign.com/Woodside/


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Sent you a PM!!


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## nachtschatten (Sep 22, 2003)

I used to work at this kennel, you can PM me if you want.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Are you looking for amer showline dog?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I sent you a PM.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Nachtschatten, your PM box is full!


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## nachtschatten (Sep 22, 2003)

oops, try now, I cleared it out


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Dana!! Long time no see!


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## nachtschatten (Sep 22, 2003)

Hi! I've been around, mostly lurking without the time to follow threads long enough to post. I'll try to stick around more


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

And post some pictures.....


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## qiqin (Feb 15, 2010)

Can someone please pm me i would like to know as well. but the thing is I already made a deposit....


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

IF there's something about a breeder that makes you unhappy, it's better to accept the loss of the deposit than to acquire a pup you're unhappy with or concerned about.

I don't know this breeder so I don't have an opinion on the breeder or his/her pups. My remarks are strictly general & not directed towards anyone in particular.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I don't see any "red flags" so I guess they are alright!!


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Cliff, that sounds very tongue in cheek...


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## ali2020 (Dec 6, 2009)

i have been to that breeder last week. beautiful dogs but they didnt have any RED/Black. She offers a life time gurantee on the genetic faults which is pretty good. She had this lil place where i saw around puppies which were around 4.5 months and were beautiful. she told me they all are gonna be show dogs apparently they all had dark complextion and their ears were glued up.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

They have black and tans. I don't know why people think "red" is better. It's just dark tan.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

And it seems that often the richer red is at the expense of a rich/full cover black. Often I feel the black and tan North American line dogs have better pigment as far as black on the face and the saddle, but I really like a dark face and black saddle or blanket.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I agree Lies. I personally think that's an edge the Americans have over the German Showlines.


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## nachtschatten (Sep 22, 2003)

A 'life time' guarantee is only as good as the person that stands behind it


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## Kaity (Nov 18, 2009)

I've seen woodsides ads on kijiji.
Just sayin'.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

All the future show-puppies had their ears taped? A pup of show quality should have naturally standing ears . . . . or else, it isn't show-quality.


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## Kaity (Nov 18, 2009)

nachtschatten, how many kennels have you worked at!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> All the future show-puppies had their ears taped? A pup of show quality should have naturally standing ears . . . . or else, it isn't show-quality.


Many American GSD breeders tape ears, regardless of whether they're coming up on their own. They're paranoid the ears will fall, so it's "just in case".

And while I know what you mean, a dog with standing ears is what allows it to remain show quality, not how the ears get there.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> A 'life time' guarantee is only as good as the person that stands behind it


Yep. A terrific guarantee with lousy backing will often be less useful than a mediocre guarantee with solid backing. This is something to remember & consider whenever the warranty or guarantee is important to you.

Another thing to remember is that most good canine warranties let you keep the pup & provide either a 'replacement' pup or refund of the purchase price, but you are responsible for any vet care for the dog if you opt to keep it. IMO, most loving, committed owners will choose to keep the dog. Future vet bills for the covered condition/problem are liable to quickly devour that refunded purchase price.

I'm not opposed to warranties on pups, but don't over estimate the protection they actually provide. A good warranty from a trusted breeder indicates a breeder willing to back his/her dogs. Beyond that it doesn't necessarily offer a great deal.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

the ones I see that tape ears are paranoid, because they have weak ear sets to begin with, so they should be paranoid.

I have never ever had to tape any puppies that I have gotten. 

While I have no comment on this particular breeder, the biggest peeve I have is weak/thin ears)


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Xeph said:


> And while I know what you mean, a dog with standing ears is what allows it to remain show quality, not how the ears get there.


You see, I don't agree with this. I think it does matter how the ears got there. Showing a dog is to be able to identify those individuals that are the most breedworthy to continue passing on the GSD traits and improve the breed. A GSD should have naturally standing ears - not ears that stand only because they were taped. I think it does matter, I think it is lazy breeding practices to look at it that way. 

I see pictures of 6 to 8 week old puppies on this board whose ears are already standing - why rationalize the taping (because everyone else does it?) when so many breeders are breeding dogs with good ears?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

It seems to me to be a showline issue. How many working lines have soft ears? 
There is a kennel that I know of ~about 50% of their pups have soft ears, and have to be taped(this kennel has average of 6 litters on the ground constantly).
You'd think they would look at what they produce and stop!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

That's what I mean, Jane. And I have heard "but, it's okay to breed a soft-eared dog if you breed to improve ears". 

In that case, I would like to know: How can you tell if you are breeding to a dog that improves ears if all the puppies have taped ears all the time?

How many generations of breeding soft eared dogs to strong-eared dogs does it take to "fix" the soft ears (probably no one knows - assuming that this is something that can be fixed through breeding considering how prevalent soft ears are, and how prevalent taping ears as a routine preventative is).

If you are breeding soft eared dogs to strong eared dogs, what are the chances that the strong eared genes will be passed on? What are the genetics of this? (Does anyone know?)

To me, it is just more rationalizing - don't think the GSD world needs more of that.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Even if the ears have been taped to stand, the set of them looks artificial. I would think a breeder would look at that as a conformation issue as well, especially if they are boasting about showtitles to sell pups.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

onyx'girl said:


> It seems to me to be a showline issue. How many working lines have soft ears?


True. My Cash is the *only* working line dog I've ever seen with soft ears. Sometimes I wonder if that's why he ended up at the shelter.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I'm saying it doesn't matter *per the standard.

*The standard calls for erect ears...if the ears are erect...the dog is showable. I would not throw a good dog out of breeding if he/she had weak ears. There needs to be more wrong with the dog than that (and a lot more RIGHT about it as well). And I will admit, I'd tape the ears of any GSD I had if they weren't standing because I don't want a floppy eared Shepherd.

Would I show it if it turned out? Probably. Would I breed it? Not necessarily. I think you can breed to correct ears (we breed to correct everything else) but you have to be consistent.



> Even if the ears have been taped to stand, the set of them looks artificial


So you can always tell if a dog's ears have been taped?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I don't know Xeph . . . wouldn't that be like cheating though? Wouldn't that be like surgically correcting and under-bite and so bumping the dog from "pet quality" to "show quality"? 

And going back to your comment about how it is common practice to tape ears in puppies "just in case", how will you be able to select the the dogs that have naturally standing ears for breeding over those that don't? 

Just seems to me that whole approach and rationalization is self-defeating.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Lucia,
If a puppy's ears are strong & thick at the age of 4-5mos, when they are teething.....*IF* they have a crease forming in the ear, that would *PREVENT* the ears from standing...*OR* not stand correctly....them I would "form" the inside of ear with an "ear-form", until teething passes and the crease disappears...so the ear can stand by itself. We do not tape ears.......although alot of breeders do. 
JMO
Robin


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I think taping would depend on the ears - some "stand at the base then flop over and can crease. Others never stand at the base. In any case, there is no harm in taping IMO. If done correctly, I'm not so sure you can tell they were taped.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Xeph said:


> So you can always tell if a dog's ears have been taped?


If you look at the link's pics on the first post, many of the ears look offset. They are either too close together, or they have a funny point, too large for the head, etc... I can't tell just by looking, NO, but in most of those pics , you can usually tell if the ears have been helped along.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I have no problems with taping ears if the ears need a bit of help - I'm just questioning premise that a dog that needs to have his/her ears taped is now show-worthy/breedworthy because . . . the ears are erect - a bit of circular logic at work here, and very difficult to break free of such circular thinking once it is so ingrained that it is accepted as normal procedure.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Personally,....I think weak ears is another problem that the breed has....it can "haunt" a breed, just like any other weakness.
*IF* a dog has "weak" ears, and it *NEEDS* all the help in the world to help them become or stay erect.....they I say it shouldn't be breed worthy. It has the potential to pass that trait on to it's offspring.
HOWEVER: If a puppy needs help because of a "crease" developing in otherwise, strong, thick ears.....then I believe that "forming" to minimize the crease is acceptable......it only prevents the crease becoming severe enough to "force" the ear down........make sense?!
I see (less) puppies that actually fall into catagory #2......than catagory #1.
But again.....every person has their own opinion....
I believe in "helping" under certain circumstances, bot not lending a "crutch".
JMO
Robin


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

Castlemaid said:


> You see, I don't agree with this. I think it does matter how the ears got there. Showing a dog is to be able to identify those individuals that are the most breedworthy to continue passing on the GSD traits and improve the breed. A GSD should have naturally standing ears - not ears that stand only because they were taped. I think it does matter, I think it is lazy breeding practices to look at it that way.
> 
> I see pictures of 6 to 8 week old puppies on this board whose ears are already standing - why rationalize the taping (because everyone else does it?) when so many breeders are breeding dogs with good ears?


I agree with you.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I also agree with Robin  And I do know what you mean about the "tape just in case!" That's how Shelties have lost natural ears.

Ears that I really had to FIGHT to get up, I wouldn't bother with breeding (though I'd probably still show if the dog was nice enough just because I think it's FUN!). But to prevent a creased ear that is other wise firm and strong? I'd run with that.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I haven't had to tape any ears that never went up. I have had ears that fell during teething and started to crease. It probably would have been fine in the end, but I can't stand to watch those creases. I don't think many ears are up for awhile and then fall to never rise again. Has anyone seen that? 

As far as showing, sure, the dogs should be of breeding quality. But plenty of dogs are bred that are not shown, so it is not really a 'system' in the US. I have known several dogs shown and championed that weren't bred. Sometimes people do indeed show for fun.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Samba and Robin and Xeph, those are good points, and it makes sense. And of course a lot of people like to show their dogs, even if they are not going to breed - that is just part of the fun of owning a dog, and how the ears got to be standing would really not matter in that case. 

I was mostly commenting on the practice a breeding kennel, taping the ears of dogs routinely (as in the example earlier in this thread), because they will be show dogs? That the kennel wants to keep back and use in their breeding program? Isn't a that a bit of a loss of the whole reason why a breeding kennel would want to have show quality dogs? To prove that their dogs are breedworthy? But how can they know if they can't tell if the ears would stand on their own or not? But in that particular case, as others have mentioned, (and I learned something new here - thank you all!), it could be that the ears did stand on their own, but have fallen and started to crease after teething, so the taping is to prevent the crease to get too deep - that would not be a biggie, in my view.

But taping routinely just to make sure the ears go up, well fine if dogs are going to pet homes and will not be bred, but that would be an issue for a breeding kennel trying to produce breed worthy dogs, no?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Oh yes, Lucia, that is hole people with breeding kennels can get into. Problems get in the lines and the decisions to be made take a certain fortitude to proceed with. There are lines where I am not surprised to see floppy ears going around the ring because it is a thing that has gotten entrenched in the lines. I know of breeding kennels with much worse problems than weak ears running in them though.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Samba said:


> I know of breeding kennels with much worse problems than weak ears running in them though.


Unfortunately, so do I . . .


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Lucia....I would agree with your opinion....
I think there are "fine lines" that should not be crossed....like I stated before....an occasional "help" is acceptable.....an automatic "crutch" should not be.....
JMO...
Robin


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