# Alternates to Orijen ?



## saul21 (Aug 22, 2016)

Hello,

I have a 10 month (big) GSD that I currently feed Orijen Large Puppy. He has been on it since I got him at 3 months and has been doing great. 
I am going to switch him out of this food at the end of this month because I think he needs to get off the puppy formula now he is 95 lbs already he is a big boy already. 

Since I am switching out his diet I am considering switching to another brand. Orijen has been great but it's not the cheapest. I currently pay $80/ 25lb bag and the other regular Orijen food are either same price or higher (for the beef formula). I have been doing as much research as possible and there is a lot of different opinions but it seems there are about 5-10 brands that seem to be a general consensus. 

I am considering Acana because it's part of Orijen brand and Fromm. I have recently seen some negative feedback about Acana after they had a switch to their Kentucky farms but still seems to be a good brand.
The lady at the pet store said Fromm is good but the protein count compared to Orijen or Acana is much lower and my dog may not like it as much. Fromm however is like $50 / 33lb bag so it is a big chunk of difference. 

My guy is 10 months old today and 95 lbs. Very healthy and according to his vet actually very lean for his size (he isn't a fat 95lb dog just very big). So I want to make sure I feed the big fella the right food that meets his needs. Any feedback would be appreciated.


----------



## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi saul21 and WELCOME! :greet:

Orijen is a food that many dogs get loose stool or diarrhea on, so it's great your dog does well on it. Have you looked for coupons and frequent buyer programs so that you could keep him on it? 

If you do change, Fromm's (owns their own manufacturing plant and is family owned) and Acana (Orijen's sister food) would be a good choice.


Always transition with small amounts of new food mixed with old, taking a week or two to change. If stool get loose, go back to previous amount fed (where stool was solid) and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut gets use to it. Then increase again. This is called "bowel tolerance".


Good luck!
Moms


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I feed Fromm 4 Star to two of my dogs, and they're doing well. It seems to be a food that many (but not all) dogs do pretty well on -- perhaps in part because it's designed to be a rotation diet (rotating among the 4-Star "flavors" to get different protein and nutrient profiles).

If I were to switch to another kibble, Open Farm would be at the top of my list to try: humanely sourced protein from independently audited, identified farms (you can put the lot code into their website, and it will list the source for every ingredient, with a phone number -- it's next-level transparency in sourcing, and sourcing is 99% of the problem behind all the recalls).

The proprietor of the store in CO where I buy told me last week that they will be dropping Orijen and Acana in the coming months, due to the Kentucky factory change (Orijen is apparently also being made for the US there...though that isn't well known, apparently). The store was told that the manufacturer won't guarantee non-GMO ingredients used in this new plant, and the sourcing quality is simply not what it was for the product was made in Canada. This store has had lots and lots of customer complaints about digestion problems since the switch. They are viewing Open Farm as the replacement for Orijen in their store -- no problems or complaints from their customers who've already transitioned, great communication with the manufacturer so far. I thought it was an astonishing conversation, as this store used to sell a lot of Orijen (and commercial raw).

OTOH, if Orijen or Acana currently works for your dog, maybe you can find a retailer in Canada willing to send you the "real" stuff?


----------



## saul21 (Aug 22, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Hi saul21 and WELCOME! :greet:
> 
> Orijen is a food that many dogs get loose stool or diarrhea on, so it's great your dog does well on it. Have you looked for coupons and frequent buyer programs so that you could keep him on it?
> 
> ...


Hello and thanks! Funny that I've been holistically going through this site for the past 7 months and barely decided to post my own question instead of searching for threads similar to my situation 

Yes I did read about Orijen giving dogs bad stomach issues because of its richness but since I got him on it he has been doing great on it. My local pet store does offer a frequent buyer program, every 12 bags you get one free for Orijen or Acana so that is a cool feature. At $80/bag though and he goes through two a month it's $160 a month. Fromm on the other side is enticing because it would be closer to like $100 a month but may not offer a frequent buyer program (haven't checked) so I would need to do the math of maybe how much each would cost me a year including the free bags from Orijen and see which one makes more sense financially. That can maybe help weigh in on the process. 

And yes I have also read about slowly changing food. So what I plan to do this month is buy a bag of whatever I decide to go with and introduce it to him mid month slowly so by the end of March he can be fully transitioned into the new food. 

Thanks for all the Tips!


----------



## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

We've transitioned from the Canadian to the American formula of Orijen here with no problem. I've only fed the Orijen Original formula from the new US plant so far, but I can't say that I see any difference from the Canadian. We did an abrupt transition from a bag of Canadian manufactured Six Fish to a bag of US manufactured Original and had absolutely no problem. Our ferrets are also fed Orijen cat food, and have gone back and forth from US bags of the regular Cat and Kitten formula to Canadian bags of both the same and the Six Fish cat formulas with no issues as well. I've inquired in both local stores where I purchase Orijen about complaints, problems, etc. since the transition to the new American made food, and both stores say they haven't had a single complaint.

If you do decide to switch and are looking for foods with protein/fat levels closer to what you get with Orijen, I know that both Dr. Tim's and Victor both have foods with protein, fat, and kcal values similar to Orijen's formulas.


----------



## saul21 (Aug 22, 2016)

Magwart said:


> I feed Fromm 4 Star to two of my dogs, and they're doing well. It seems to be a food that many (but not all) dogs do pretty well on -- perhaps in part because it's designed to be a rotation diet (rotating among the 4-Star "flavors" to get different protein and nutrient profiles).
> 
> If I were to switch to another kibble, Open Farm would be at the top of my list to try: humanely sourced protein from independently audited, identified farms (you can put the lot code into their website, and it will list the source for every ingredient, with a phone number -- it's next-level transparency in sourcing, and sourcing is 99% of the problem behind all the recalls).
> 
> ...


That is very interesting. Ironically enough I read about rotation feeding for the first time yesterday on another thread here and thought it sounded great. Could be a well balanced diet and gives the dog new flavors so they don't get bored. I haven't digged too far into Fromm but that Froom 4 Star sounds very enticing if they are built around rotation feeding. 

I have not heard of Open Farm before but sounds interesting. I will definitely start doing some research on it now thanks!

Yea I read on other threads here actually about the issues with Acana after switching to Kentucky farms. And yes Orijen is now made in the same Kentucky farms which I was one of those people who didn't know. When I told the person at the pet store my concerns with Acana and their kentucky farms she looked at me kinda funny and was like "oh you know the Orijen you're buying now is already switched there too right?" Sure enough never noticed the side of my Orijen bag says Kentucky Farms. She did however say that it was good they switched over because in the US they can only freeze dry for I believe up to like 3 months or something as opposed to Canada where they can do it much longer so from the Kentucky farms it is supposed to be much fresher. (Not sure about the legitimacy about that)
The only positive thing about finding out the Orijen he eats now is already from that same Kentucky farms is that he has been doing great on it so whatever has been affecting other dogs from these ingredients isn't or doesn't seem to be affecting my guy. So if i switch to Acana for the slight price difference he may do well on it too.

I will be going to the pet store after work today and look at the Fromm section more closely and see if they carry Open Farm. I may just try Fromm and see how he does. Worse case I have to switch back to Orijen or Acana if he doesn't like it. The rotation diet sounds really appealing to me. 
Thanks for all the great info!!


----------



## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

In addition to the recommendations above I would also like to add EVO and Solid Gold, both good foods in my personal opinion.

Here is a website that will help you find out the quality of different foods:
Dry Dog Food Reviews | Dog Food Advisor

If 2 dollars a pound is still a little out of your price range there's also Taste of The Wild, Kirkland's Natures Domain and Diamond Naturals.


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

EVO is now a Proctor & Gamble food (which also makes Iams, Eukaneuba, etc.). P&G bought Natura a few years ago. Natura used to make several great foods (Innova, Cal Naturals, EVO, etc.)...but now that they're a P&G brand, I'm pretty skeptical.

As far as I know, Solid Gold is manufactured under contract by in a Diamond plant -- do you have different info (or has it changed)? Last I looked, it was made in the same Diamond facilities that make tons of other brands, with many recalls, including Taste of the Wild and Kirkland/Natures Domain/Costco. (Do a google search on "Diamond pet food recall" to get up to speed, if you haven't been following the history.) If you feed any Diamond-made food, keep the product lot code on hand and monitor recalls very closely, given their history. We feed some Diamond-made foods in the rescue because they're relatively inexpensive and tend to feed out well, but we also are very careful about checking recalls because we don't trust them much. I would consider them solid "middle of the road" foods (with spotty track records).

For the sake of comparison, Fromm is a family-owned company (not a conglomerate) that has its own plant, has built a reputation on exceptional quality-control, has been making dog food since the early 20th C. (one of the first premium brands!), and they have had no recalls except one they initiated themselves for too much Vit. D in canned food, once. Champion built its reputation on local sourcing (thought that's apparently changing...). Both do not use Chinese ingredients!

Be very, very careful about DogFoodAdvisor -- it analyzes the label, and not the sourcing of the ingredients, or anything else. I used to rely on them too, but I'm finding their methodology to be just a starting point, since all the problems lately have been related to _sourcing_ -- and plant cleanliness. A great label that's made with rendered 4D meat, Chinese vitamins and grains, and chemicals that aren't on the ingredients list could get a great score from DFA because they aren't looking beyond the label (and even give bonus points for meat meals, that are rendered by definition, because they are concentrated even though that's the way the formulas tend to get adulterated, since you can't track the source of the meat once it's all thrown into the big vat).


----------



## saul21 (Aug 22, 2016)

Dracovich said:


> In addition to the recommendations above I would also like to add EVO and Solid Gold, both good foods in my personal opinion.
> 
> Here is a website that will help you find out the quality of different foods:
> Dry Dog Food Reviews | Dog Food Advisor
> ...


Yea I heard Evo quality dropped once Natura was bought out by P&G. Solid Gold is also part of Diamond plant processing plant and I unfortunately do not trust them at all. Dog food Advisor is good starting place to evaluate food but can be very skeptical. If you click on "How we review" it actually states they do NOT take recalls into consideration for their ratings so many dog foods on their with almost perfect rating can have a boat load of recalls and people who solely base their research of their site would have no idea. I think the site should change their policy or make it more clear as to not deceive people searching for honest reviews. They also only go based off the label and not the sourcing. 
I am trying to find this link of a pet food research that was done but can't find it right now will post it if I do. It basically checked foods for products known to be dangerous, sourcing of the food, recalls, etc. and eliminated anything that didn't pass the test. It was a nice compiled list of like 15-20 foods that are quality. 
Will keep looking for that link and hopefully post it soon.


----------



## saul21 (Aug 22, 2016)

So yesterday I went to my local pet outlet store to check out prices. They did not carry Open Kitchen
Acana was $60-80 / 25lb bag depending on flavor
Fromm was $50-65 /26lb bag depending on flavor

They both have a frequent buyer program at this outlet. (Every 12 bags you get one free)

I think I will try Fromm and see how he does on it. If he doesn't like it or reacts bad I will just switch back to Orijen/Acana and see if there are other quality brands I can try.

Thanks everybody for all the great tips!!


----------

