# What is a Backyard Breeder or BYB?



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I used to have my own idea about this.

On this forum I have seen it used so much and in so many different ways that I no longer have any idea.

That brings up another question. What is a reputable breeder? 

Is there something in between?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

A backyard breeder (BYB) is one who breeds in their back yard. 

A reputable breeder breeds in the front yard, side yard, basement, garage, house or office. Therefore he is not a BYB.

There is nothing in between.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

this is so, so, so, so, very, very, very, very
ffffffuuuuuuunnnnnnyyyyyyy.



selzer said:


> A backyard breeder (BYB) is one who breeds in their back yard.
> 
> A reputable breeder breeds in the front yard, side yard, basement, garage, house or office. Therefore he is not a BYB.
> 
> There is nothing in between.


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## Snarly (Sep 7, 2011)

I think a reputable breeder is one who titles/works their dogs, health tests, knows the pedigrees very well etc and only has a few litters a year.
A byb to me is someone that doesn't health test, doesn't title their dogs and has litters because they own the parents. I think quite a few have good intentions and care about their dogs.
And then there are the ones I personally cannot stand which to me is a byb/puppymill blend. The ones that pass themselves off as reputable (to those that believe it) by doing OFA's and by having tons of dogs (that they breed back to back to back) with no titles and few if any titled dogs in their pedigrees.
The general public beleives because a dog is registered that it is quality when clearly that is not true. These are just my opnions on the matter so take it for what it's worth.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I am going to breed my GSD with my neighbors. Neither of our dogs have their hips or elbows rated (but they seem to be fine) my dog does have some aggression issues-but he's just really protective and dominant. My neighbors dog has many fear issues but she is very pretty. My GSD is really big so he will be very impressive to buyers when they come and see him, they will surely be impressed with the sire and pretty dam. As far as breed standards? Who cares! We are just breeding to make some money. We are thinking $500 a puppy will be a good deal. No guarantees or anything-buyer takes the pup and thats the last we want to hear about the puppy.

This story is of course fictional-but it is my idea of a BYB'er.


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## Discoetheque (Nov 2, 2011)

True enough, the terms have different meanings to everyone, really. 
I think the term 'reputable breeder' is relative, depending on what you're looking for. There is generally a minimum expectation among the population, like health-testing and some form of temperament testing, allowing the prospective puppy-buyers to meet the parents and see the puppies, etc.

It's once you reach other areas that things start to get a little muddy.
For example, some people would think that a reputable breeder has contracts. Some people will not buy from breeders with contracts. Some people like overly detailed and 'failsafe' contracts. But a breeder with a fairly simple contract might be preferred to some while seen as 'not reputable' to others.

If you are shopping for a pet, and nothing more, you might not find a lack of Schutzhund titles to be a deal-breaker if everything else is in place: hips and elbows at a minimum done, temperament testing done, clean facilities, breeder support. But to some, selling puppies from untitled dogs is as not-reputable as selling puppies that are on fire, and from a working-dog professional perspective, puppies from untitled parents might be considered 'backyard bred'.

The GSD is something different to everyone. This is evidenced by the division in the lines, and as a result, you're going to have a mighty hard time finding the 'total dog' anymore, as when breeding programs become concentrated on a handful of aspects, the left-over areas can begin to suffer if not taken into account. Two different people concentrating on two different aspects of the dog might not seem reputable to one another.

The problem with self-created definitions is that they aren't clear across the board. Therefore, the only one that really matters in the grand scheme is yours


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

selzer said:


> A backyard breeder (BYB) is one who breeds in their back yard.
> 
> A reputable breeder breeds in the front yard, side yard, basement, garage, house or office. Therefore he is not a BYB.
> 
> There is nothing in between.


I hope you moved your pups out of the backyard then Selzer.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

jack's dad said:


> i hope you moved your pups out of the backyard then selzer.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Some breeders import dogs with titles etc...

They could be great or they may just be breeding for money.

Should a reputable breeder know genetics or is that unnecessary?

If they don't have a good grasp on genetics and pedigrees but have titled dogs are they a bad breeder or a BYB or a reputable breeder?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

Selzer, ask Jack's Dad where did he get his dog???



selzer said:


> A backyard breeder (BYB) is one who breeds in their back yard.
> 
> A reputable breeder breeds in the front yard, side yard, basement, garage, house or office. Therefore he is not a BYB.
> 
> There is nothing in between.





Jack's Dad said:


> >>>>> I hope you moved your pups out of the backyard then Selzer.<<<<<<


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## Discoetheque (Nov 2, 2011)

IMHO, if they don't know their own pedigrees, then they don't need to be breeding. 
To me, a good breeder pairs dogs that compliment one another. 
To me, a good breeder has a plan in mind for what they want to produce. They have an idea for a consistent look, if they're breeding for conformation. They have an idea for if they're breeding for working ability of pairing dogs who have a history of health and a consistent ability to work (titled or untitled), learn and retain information. If they''re breeding for pets, then they have an idea of temperament, obedience and health, at the very least. 
In order to have these ideas to produce consistency in your kennel, you need to know your lines. That is the first step to becoming reputable, in my opinion.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jack's Dad said:


> I hope you moved your pups out of the backyard then Selzer.


If I had the pups in the back yard, I would be a back-yard-whelper (BYW).


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

selzer said:


> If I had the pups in the back yard, I would be a back-yard-whelper (BYW).


Something about the term back-yard-whelper sounds kinda obscene.

Doggiedad I got my dog from adlerstein.

I hope you say something bad about her cause I want to watch.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I am going to breed my GSD with my neighbors. Neither of our dogs have their hips or elbows rated (but they seem to be fine) my dog does have some aggression issues-but he's just really protective and dominant. My neighbors dog has many fear issues but she is very pretty. My GSD is really big so he will be very impressive to buyers when they come and see him, they will surely be impressed with the sire and pretty dam. As far as breed standards? Who cares! We are just breeding to make some money. We are thinking $500 a puppy will be a good deal. No guarantees or anything-buyer takes the pup and thats the last we want to hear about the puppy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jack's Dad said:


> Something about the term back-yard-whelper sounds kinda obscene.
> 
> Doggiedad I got my dog from adlerstein.
> 
> I hope you say something bad about her cause I want to watch.


I had one living next door to me. Let her bitch whelp a litter of pups in the back yard in January. The poor girl tried to take refuge in my shed. I had no idea she was pregnant and I told her owner to get her out of there so my cat could get to her food.

The next day she whelped a litter in her igloo dog house. Pups stayed outside -- never went inside. She was a BYW.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

sometime ago in another thread i thought
you said you got your dog from a byb.



Jack's Dad said:


> Something about the term back-yard-whelper sounds kinda obscene.
> 
> Doggiedad I got my dog from adlerstein.
> 
> I hope you say something bad about her cause I want to watch.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Byb: Says uncomfortably "I'm really not a breeder" while avoiding your eyes

Good breeder: Says proudly "I am a breeder!" while showing you their accomplishments.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

doggiedad:

The GSD I had before Jack was from a BYB and actually was one of the best dogs I ever owned. She did have bad hips starting at about 5 yrs. old and spinal arthritis by about 9.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

There are two parts to the equation. Breeders who supply dogs and owners (buyers) who purchase the dogs.

For buyers it is very difficult to wade through what these terms mean. A lot of people never even heard the terms.

On an earlier thread today they were discussing breeders maintaining the utility and soundness of the breed. Unfortunately it won't matter much if the average pet owner thinks all GSD's are the same.

If they are all the same to the pet buyer then they would prefer to buy one for two hundred dollars instead of a thousand or more.

If we all can explain the situation to friends etc.. it might help a little.

But it's hard to do when we can't figure out how to explain what a BYB is compared to a "reputable breeder".


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> There are two parts to the equation. Breeders who supply dogs and owners (buyers) who purchase the dogs.
> 
> For buyers it is very difficult to wade through what these terms mean. A lot of people never even heard the terms.
> 
> ...


Agreed! I learned this lesson the hard way. I try to tell others but most of them just think I am talking snobbishness and go on and buy from the BYB'er. Some even still buy from pet shops. sigh


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

BYB=any breeder producing dogs someone else doesn't like.  (half kidding)

Reputable breeder:
Knows about the genetic problems in the breed and tries to avoid them. 
Interested in what happens to the litters they produce.
Doesn't give breeding rights to just anyone.
Understands the breed and works towards producing dogs that exemplify it.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I would narrow it even further.

I would also include those who breed just for the money. They might do all the right health testing. Often they will have titled dogs, sometimes they are big time "experts" in the GSD world. But, in the end, they are looking to breed a dog that the public wants to buy.

A reputable breeder, to me, jumps through all the hoops for working/testing/etc, but their goal is to breed the next dog THEY want. Always striving to improve the breed and make it better. They aren't riding the wave of public opinion, trying to catch the next fad.

I'm thinking in that last part of many of Cliff's posts. And Doc. And NarysDad. And Carmspack. And many other breeders on here. Not everyone will agree with the same version of ideal, goodness knows that the public often doesnt. But their focus is solely on improving the dogs. They aren't changing the breed to suit the public, but working to educate the public to suit the breed.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Then there's the reputable BYB that does the testing, researches lineage and strives to improve the breed but doesn't work or title their dogs .... just sells them, possibly with future breeding rights or speuter agreements for pups they don't think should be bred.
Sorry for the run-on sentence.


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