# HELP! I want to get rid of my puppy already!



## Fox33 (Oct 3, 2015)

I'm not looking for any judgemental comments or advise here just some help and knowledge from other owners! 
We got our 8 week old GSD puppy 4 days ago and I can't not be out of his sight without him screaming the house down! He sleeps in a crate next to our bed which we don't find and he sleeps through till around 6 am with minimal crying only to go out to the toilet. At 6am all he wants to do is play and won't settle again unless on the living room rug with me on the sofa. He is fine in his crate when we are there but as soon as I even go to the toilet or anything then he howls! He is constantly attached to my hip when we're home and I can't do ANYTHING without him being under my feet. 
We both work full time so he is left in the day but I've had many dogs before and all of them have been fine. Except this one... He is shut in the hall and kitchen area with all his toys and bed but when we leave he howls SO loudly! For hours!! I went to apologise to the neighbours last night and they said it's fine don't worry about it but I can only imagine how frustrating it is for them as it is for us. Even if I need to go to the shop etc he will cry for hours and it's very loud and distressing that I never want to leave the house! 
Will he grow out of it?? Will he just get used to us leaving in the day and stop doing it? The whining and crying wouldn't be such a problem but he howls so loudly as well.
He also doesn't seem to listen when I tell him no. He chews everything and jumps up and bites your face. I tell him NO but hr doesn't listen. 
It is causing major arguments with my partner as I'm so stressed out about him. Should I just go to work and forget about it and he will stop? 
I want to get rid of him already as he is too needy but I know j havnt given him a chance. Will he grow out of this neediness?

PLEASE HELP!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Read what you wrote and then think in the terms of a baby because that is pretty much what you have. They don't come trained, they want to be with you, they need exercise(both mental and physical) and lots of patience/time. If you can't give this pup these things and expect it to be what takes some months and years to be like, then rehome the pup and give him the opportunity to get all these things he needs.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Fox33 said:


> I'm not looking for any judgemental comments or advise here just some help and knowledge from other owners!
> We got our 8 week old GSD puppy 4 days ago and I can't not be out of his sight without him screaming the house down! He sleeps in a crate next to our bed which we don't find and he sleeps through till around 6 am with minimal crying only to go out to the toilet. At 6am all he wants to do is play and won't settle again unless on the living room rug with me on the sofa. He is fine in his crate when we are there but as soon as I even go to the toilet or anything then he howls! He is constantly attached to my hip when we're home and I can't do ANYTHING without him being under my feet.
> We both work full time so he is left in the day but I've had many dogs before and all of them have been fine. Except this one... He is shut in the hall and kitchen area with all his toys and bed but when we leave he howls SO loudly! For hours!! I went to apologise to the neighbours last night and they said it's fine don't worry about it but I can only imagine how frustrating it is for them as it is for us. Even if I need to go to the shop etc he will cry for hours and it's very loud and distressing that I never want to leave the house!
> Will he grow out of it?? Will he just get used to us leaving in the day and stop doing it? The whining and crying wouldn't be such a problem but he howls so loudly as well.
> ...


Not being judgmental but.. why did you get him? Did you do any research on the breed before brining him into your home?

You JUST got him. Literally 4 days ago. Give him some time to get used to thing. To answer your question, no, he won't _grow _out of it, but you can dedicate time to him and _train_ him out of the undesirable behaviors.

As for the crying. When he does cry when you are in the other room, what is your response? What do you do when he chews? What do you do when he bites? "No" doesn't work unless he knows what "no" means. You got him 4 days ago so I don't think he has got that one down.

For chewing and biting redirect with a chew or toy that you would prefer him chewing or biting. 

If you want him to go back to sleep after 6 am when you let him out to potty, then you have to enforce that. Back in the crate with no fuss and he doesn't come back out until you say so. By you taking him back out and on the rug and sleeping on the couch, he is training you, not the other way around. You need to set boundaries and stick with them. 

GSDs are typically Velcro dogs. I can't so much as go to another room without Titan following me around and he's almost 6 years old. That's just something you are going to have to work on with him and moving him out of your way. Start teaching him to "stay" or "wait" that will come in handy for many other things as well. 

Check out these forums and read read read until you can't read anymore and get a plan of action for dealing with these behaviors you weren't prepared for. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/

My personal advice is to take a step back and really evaluate if you and your partner can handle caring for a puppy. Basic obedience takes time and patience. Some days you are going to be so mad and others you are going to remember why you got your pup in the first place.. but you have to get past the bad annoying days before the good ones start coming around. It worries me that it's only been 4 days and you already are so annoyed you are thinking of rehoming him. Have you thought about the various other reasons that it may be difficult in the future? Medical issues? behavior issues? etc? If you do rehome him.. that's good of you to acknowledge but do it sooner than later.. to someone who has the time and patience.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

if you don't have the patience and have buyer's remorse it is much better to go back to the breeder who may have someone waiting for a pup, rather than , muddling through it with resentment and impatience and doing a bad job of it , off on the wrong foot , and having an assortment of other problems caused by this , which are not solvable and make for a poor candidate for re-homing.

(which may be inevitable because of your partner)


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

So the puppy is crated for a large portion of the day and then again all night and you expect the puppy to be calm when he actually does get out of the crate? Did you do any research about this breed?? They are a working breed that need a lot of mental stimulation and exercise, what are you doing to work his brain and body EVERYDAY? 

Also GSD's are a Velcro breed, my male GSD is 3 years old and he still follows me everywhere in the house. The crying is normal for a baby puppy, you have a BABY not a fully trained adult dog. Puppies need to be taught what is acceptable behavior, they don't come knowing what no means. I'd enroll in a puppy class to help get you started in learning how to teach obedience. If you're not willing to put in the work(and GSD's need a lot of training) and do not want a needy dog then this breed may not be for you.

I have a four month old working line puppy right now and she does all these things and then some but it is part of raising a GSD. I spend many times during the day EVERYDAY doing short training sessions working her brain and teaching her behaviors I want and the other part is spent playing tug, building drive, playing fetch, tiring out her body, etc. We also spend a lot of time outside the house training with distractions and exposing her to new things. After all of this she becomes a bit calmer in the house... If I don't do this she is wild and crazy. But I love this about the breed, their drive to learn and to be with me.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Fox33 said:


> I'm not looking for any judgemental comments or advise here just some help and knowledge from other owners!
> We got our 8 week old GSD puppy 4 days ago and I can't not be out of his sight without him screaming the house down! He sleeps in a crate next to our bed which we don't find and he sleeps through till around 6 am with minimal crying only to go out to the toilet. At 6am all he wants to do is play and won't settle again unless on the living room rug with me on the sofa. He is fine in his crate when we are there but as soon as I even go to the toilet or anything then he howls! He is constantly attached to my hip when we're home and I can't do ANYTHING without him being under my feet.
> We both work full time so he is left in the day but I've had many dogs before and all of them have been fine. Except this one... He is shut in the hall and kitchen area with all his toys and bed but when we leave he howls SO loudly! For hours!! I went to apologise to the neighbours last night and they said it's fine don't worry about it but I can only imagine how frustrating it is for them as it is for us. Even if I need to go to the shop etc he will cry for hours and it's very loud and distressing that I never want to leave the house!
> Will he grow out of it?? Will he just get used to us leaving in the day and stop doing it? The whining and crying wouldn't be such a problem but he howls so loudly as well.
> ...


Where are you located? I'll be willing to take him in


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Wow, your expectations are way out of line for such a young dog and having had him only 4 days. Given this, I think you should return him to the breeder and if you really want a dog to take care of and exercise and interact with and SHARE your life with, rescue an adult dog of a calm and lower energy breed.


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## kelliewilson (Jan 1, 2015)

Id get rid of the s.o and keep the dog,


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

I'm sorry this is so difficult. The idea of getting a puppy is so exciting. The reality is now you really have the pup and all the good and bad that goes with it.

German Shepherds are high maintenance. I know that some people will say that they are not, but that is MY experience. They will not be ignored. They require more stimulation than many breeds of dogs. They also are more expensive as they require more training, more frequent replacement of toys, and quality food to be healthy (in general).

The HUGE thing is they require your TIME. In my case, my life revolves around my almost 2 yr. old male. The relationship is amazing and tremendously close and rewarding. And my whole life revolves around him. And as a pup, I could not pet him as he went for a moving hand immediately with his teeth. And he did not cuddle. Now he is a total mamma's boy.

It's really best to think the situation over and decide what's realistically best for the pup first. You are so unhappy already, the future doesn't sound good. Take care and good luck.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

I am going to be really honest, if you feel this way right now you need to very very seriously consider re-homing or returning this puppy to the breeder... this is because although through lots of training this particular issue can and will be "grown out of" raising a puppy only gets way harder as you progress, especially if your expectations and understanding of the breed are lacking. GSD puppies in particular take unfathomable amounts of dedication and time because they need to be mentally and physically stimulated EVERY SINGLE DAY or they will have serious behavior problems from boredom and being pent up. They are not just a dog you get and let hang around the house and keep as a companion, they need to be trained continuously throughout their lives because they are incredibly intelligent. 

When these individuals that are posting on here say that they work their dogs every day, they mean everyday...as in even when they have the flu, when they are exhausted after a 14 hr day, when they have a family member that died...literally every day...for example if you go on vacation the dog will not be able to be left with just anyone because they will have needs that generally go beyond another type of dog. If you already are annoyed after 4 days it is in the best interest of all three of you to re home because trust me when I say that it gets way worse before it gets better (2 years of worse). 

That being said if your dead set on keeping the little one, first thing that you should do is begin training courses at a local training facility (the are usually about 100$ and 100% worth it... if you cant dedicate 100$ then definitely rehome....because also puppies are INSANELY EXPENSIVE... we have spent about 4 thousand dollars on costs associated with wick and and he is only 10 months old... they get sick, hurt, food sensitivites, training issues, increase costs of travel, chew up your house, need training, treats for training etc etc) and check out aspca's website where they give detailed instructions for training puppies for new owners. They have wonderful training tips for all these "normal" puppy antics, including the separation anxiety that your new puppy is feeling, it is how I survived wicks puppyhood. Just be warned that nothing is "grown out of" in the sense that you are talking about, every single behavior you want from your puppy needs to be trained and taught, things that you think your not training actually are just being inadvertently taught.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

When I got my female Robyn(my first GSD), I cried. She was super loud in the crate, she had worms, she wasn't getting the potty training and I was a mess. I can remember going to work without any sleep for the first couple weeks and everyone making fun of me. Re-homing her was not an option. I took a step back and evaluated the situation. It was me, not her that was the problem. I considered what her needs were, got her in school, did some agility and worked on obedience daily and we never looked back. She just turned four and I've gotten 2 other GSD's since then because once you realize what they require and you give it to them, they are nothing short of amazing. But you have to want it and put the effort in.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

wick said:


> When these individuals that are posting on here say that they work their dogs every day, they mean everyday...as in even when they have the flu, when they are exhausted after a 14 hr day, when they have a family member that died...literally every day...for example if you go on vacation the dog will not be able to be left with just anyone because they will have needs that generally go beyond another type of dog.


I can attest to this, whole heartedly, with 2 examples.. 

My grandfather, whom was like a second dad to me, passed away and on that very day while I'm sobbing on the couch.. there's Titan, so adorably sitting there with his tennis ball just staring at me so patiently. I realized I hadn't worked him that day because of everything and I went outside for a long time to just be with him and give him the attention he needs. Dogs don't understand the troubles we face like we do, they still have needs that need to be met. 

Second example is planning trips. I am lucky enough that I have a friend who has 2 large dogs and we trade vacation times to be able to watch eachothers pups and I have a Plan B if my friend can't watch them. I have a series of trips coming up in the next 6 months that Titan will need to be watch.. albeit, not drastically long trips, but still. Neither my plan A or B are going to work. I had to research and find a good boarding facility that's going to cost $38 a night.. That's a lot of money, but he can't just stay with anyone and this is a good facility that will take care of his needs. 

Those weren't to discourage you, but to give you real life examples of how much, on various levels (time and money), goes into these dogs. This is not an easy low maintenance breed and you really need to understand fully what you are getting into. At this point it is up to you to decide.. do you make a life style change for you and your partner? or do you rehome this puppy to someone who is willing to? Neither is the wrong choice, but you have to be realistic with yourself. If you decide to keep him, then you truly need to make changes and dedicate yourself to this new life you have taken in... Obedience classes, obedience outside classes, physical exercise, mental exercise, routines, vet trips, etc.


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## MishkasMom (Aug 20, 2015)

To the Op...I understand where you are coming from, your pup is only 8 weeks, mine is a year yesterday and I went through the same things and still do. There is no easy fix to raising a dog, it requires continuous work, commitment and dedication, training, patience, cleaning up and vet visits, replacing carpets, cables and chewed up furniture as well as a few extra gray hairs (at least in my case). Like I said mine is a year and although much better than an 8 week old puppy he still is a handful and needs reminders on daily basis. But if you do persevere you will see them grow up into a wonderful companion that you wouldn't trade for anything, that will make your crappy days wonderful and your happy days even better. I hope this helps in knowing that we here all went though it and you end up with an amazing dog.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I agree. Take the puppy back to the breeder. Some people just do not have the time or drive to raise a GSD puppy. They are not the breed for everyone. 

The sooner, the better so the next owner will not have to already train out learned behavior issues.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Wick was correct and I forgot to mention that... 8 weeks is EASY compared to later on. Right now they sleep more because like I said they are babies. The only photos I have of my girl laying down sleeping are when she was that age. That rarely happens anymore as she has much more energy and needs much more stimulation and exercise now. When they become teenagers they can sometimes get a lot more stubborn, sometimes they seem to forget all training and other issues can pop up especially if you haven't put the time in training them when they were younger. They are also a breed that needs strong leadership or they will walk all over you if not given good guidance and structure.

GSD puppies are mouthy, very mouthy. I can't pet my girl right now because I just end up with a puppy latched on to my hand or arm... It will eventually pass but it takes a lot of time and patience. I always have a few toys on hand when she's out with me to redirect her off my flesh. If you were hoping for a dog to just laze around the house with you with minimal training then the GSD isn't for you. You are definitely expecting way way too much from this puppy.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Fox, it's not going to get better until the dog is around 3 y.o. In fact, it's going to get a whole lot worse in adolescence, only then it will be with 75 pounds of energy behind it.

In rescue in my area, the most common age we see GSDs abandoned by owners to high-kill public shelters is between 6 mo. and 2 years. GSD owners can easily understand why that's so, even if we don't appreciate the lack of responsible rehoming: the dog got too big and strong for an inexperienced owner who didn't have time or patience to raise it. Frustrated owners sign them over, so angry that they no longer care what happens to the dog -- usually after something expensive was destroyed (a new designer couch, wall paneling, custom drapery, house siding, kitchen cabinets, and landscaping are all things I've read were destroyed by young GSDs, according to surrender-slips at shelters).

Now is the golden time for rehoming. Let the breeder do it responsibly. They only get harder to rehome when they are gangly adolescents who aren't cute any more, and have learned undesirable behaviors.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I have to say, Carriesue, I wish Varik had slept when he was a pup. He NEVER slept unless I put him in his crate. I think he was probably 8 or 9 months old (or even older), then first time he actually fell asleep outside his crate. 

He and I didn't mesh that well and it's just in the past few months that I've gotten pretty enamored of him. In fact, there were times during the first year that I would say "I don't even like you right now" because ugh .. it was just .. so .. hard. Our personalities just clashed. He's just so .. independent and not a people-pleaser.

At two, he's gotten much better and I'm sure it will just get better from now on. By 4, he'll probably be perfect! 

OP: Puppies are NOT easy. Puppies ARE a lot of work. Even in my small guest bath, if I go in, my 90 lb GSD goes with me.... he just stands half in and half out of the bathtub hehe. If I close the door, he whines. GSDs are big babies....pretty much their whole lives. They are so incredibly intelligent and have to be challenged, and exercised, every day. For their sanity and yours.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Agree with all the above; without a major change and tons of effort you will end up with a problem dog. Rin Tin Tin did not just happen to be a miraculous dog. Return him to the breeder and consider it a lesson learned. We all have made mistakes in this field and it is nothing to be ashamed about. Your sanity, your partner's, your neighbor's and, above all, your dog's is at stake.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I agree with everything above. They all speak the truth. It takes a responsible person to know when they are in over their head. Do what is best for the pup.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It's hard to ask for a response here that isn't judgmental because we all love our dogs and we all have our own opinions on what is best. German Shepherds don't like being alone for long periods of time. My neighbors both work all day and their rescue GSD barks all the time. All the time. They come home and the dog doesn't bark. People tell them about the barking and they don't believe it.

If the breeder will take the dog back, just do it. It sounds like you didn't learn in advance what they are like and I'm surprised the breeder didn't ask you if anyone is home with the puppy during the day. 

If you can't or you want to work it out, hire a puppy sitter to come in and play with him, walk him when he's old enough, maybe exercise him. Once he can go out, you should walk him 30 minutes morning and night. Puppies have a lot of energy.

I hate to see anyone struggle with a puppy like you are. But he needs to be around people.


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## Palydyn (Aug 28, 2014)

I will try not to be judgmental per your request. But I am curious as to how you acquired your puppy. Did you research breeders, put down a deposit and wait what seemed like forever before you could pick him up? While waiting did you research the breed to find out their needs? Or was this a emotional, spur of the moment decision? If the former, did you have a discussion with your breeder about what your expectations were for the dog and how you planned to raise it? Because if so, your breeder bears some responsibility for your predicament. Most responsible breeders try to match new owners and their experience and expectations with the available puppies in the litter. 

A modicum of research would have revealed that GSD's are indeed high maintenance, at least as far as the need for training and human interaction. You have only had him four days and no its not going to get any better for a long time. You've yet to experience the "landshark" phase, the bratty teenage phase, teething and zoomies. GSD's are intelligent dogs. Without training and more interaction they will invent ways to keep themselves occupied. Things like, chewing and tearing your favorite things, digging holes, or merely destroying everything in sight. If you think you and your SO have had arguments now just wait till the dog destroys something of theirs. 

Your puppy at 8 weeks is a baby. Would you put a baby in a crib 16-18 hours a day and then wonder why it didn't act perfectly when it was finally taken out? 

Do yourself, the puppy and your SO a favor and take this puppy back to the breeder where he can be rehomed while he is still young and can be placed in a home where they have more time for him. There is no shame in admitting that this just isn't the right fit for you. 

Then if you still feel compelled to get a dog (although with your schedule and available time I wonder why) then go to a shelter and get an older, settled dog. One that doesn't need more from you than you have to give. Perhaps a breed that doesn't need as much mental or physical stimulation. Or get a goldfish.


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

You should absolutely return him to the breeder because right now he is very young and will be easy to re-home to a loving home who knows what to expect from a GSD puppy. It doesn't sound like you are going to be able to meet his needs, which are completely normal for a puppy this age and are not going to change anytime soon. Bring him back right away to wherever you got him from, you will be doing the right thing for him and yourself.


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## BadStarter (Apr 29, 2015)

I am on my first dog, and am struggling similarly. Read my posts in your free time.
One thing I find CUTE and adorable today of Dude (8 mo) was he would only sleep outside my bedroom when he was brought home. I am having entirely different set of problems with my dog, but will stand for the breed. They are high maintenance, very furry, frightening, aggressive, destructive if left intended to; but no other breed has their looks; their intelligence, and their loyalty. Today as Dude peacefully retires for the night to his kennel two floors below, I miss a young pup cuddling up to my bedroom door, and once inside, making the bathroom his bed and all stinking


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I agree with everything that everyone is saying ... Kyleigh is my first GSD, but not my first dog and she was NOTHING like I've ever experienced with any other dog. 

She drove me nuts. From the time I brought her home to 8 months old I would have gladly paid someone to take her (about 60% of the time LOL)

BUT ... I knew what I was getting into (sort of ... reading a book, talking to people and then actually having one ... not really the same thing LOL), and I knew that it would get better, and to be honest I busted my butt working with her. 

There are no breaks - EVER. You have a dog that is super smart, and has lots of energy, endurance, stamina ... even as a puppy. 

By 4 months, my dog knew 10 commands (not bomb proof, but she knew them).

At 11 months, I had a magical moment with her, and then we bonded ... but it was A TON of work. 

If you don't think you can picture you and your partner spending 3-4 hours every single day working with your puppy / then dog ... then bring it back. 

I easily spend 5-6 hours EVERY SINGLE DAY regardless of how I feel, walking, working her, playing with her, etc. (I'm not married, and don't have kids). She's NOT my "baby" but she is a dog that is super smart and has loads of energy ... I got what I wanted because my butt is never planted on that sofa before 9 pm!


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## CaliGSD3 (Apr 23, 2015)

People have given some good advice already. I just wanted to chime in and say that it may be a good idea to give him back to the breeder, while he's still young. Take a step back and really think about what you want in a dog and what you are prepared to deal with. Maybe a different breed would be more suitable or maybe it would be a good idea to adopt a dog that's a little older, so you know you are getting a dog that will mesh well with your lifestyle and expectations. 
Don't feel bad or guilty, he is still a young pup and can easily find a new family. In a non judgemental way, it sounds like you were totally unprepared for a german shepherd puppy! German shepherds in general can be a lot higher maintenance and a lot more work than the average dog. They will grow out of lots of the puppy stuff, but like others have said, GSDs need absolute daily commitment and an outlet for their mental and physical energy. 

I too have had experience raising a lot of dogs growing up, and none of them came close to the intensity of raising my GSD pup (who at two years of age has still not left the puppy stage entirely). He drove me NUTS (still does lol) most of the time! He was and is a lot more work than the average dog. I wake up well before the sun so I can have 2 hours to take my pup on a 2 hour hike/run/training session before work and when I get home, I do another hour or two. Rain or shine, tired, or sick or whatever. 

All that being said, raising a puppy can be just plain stressful and frustrating and tiring sometimes! And if you just need a moment to vent, and get advice, that's okay! 
I'd recommend just really assessing what you want and what you are prepared to deal with long term. If you decide you (and your partner) are ready for the commitment and the work, I'd recommend finding a trainer and getting into a puppy class as soon as possible, and maybe picking up some good books on training and spending lots of time on the forum, so much great info here!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Give the dog back. They really don't "grow out of" everything until they're three.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I think bringing up dogs is easy. It is not this big mission people make it out to be. A dog isn't the most important thing in life and doesn't need to be the first priority at all. You feel stressed, don't walk your dog. Training while stressed is bad for the training imo.

I've been through some hard times with my dogs but it was mostly due to my own lack of understanding of dog behavior. Once you begin to grasp the forces at nature in a dog you can more easily work out strategies which will work for you.

I think people should make an effort and stick with there dogs. Giving up is lame. It is not rocket science, and in the long run, the dog will reward you for your loyalty to it. It is a 2 way street in my mind.

People should regain composure and face reality sometimes, and that reality is better with dogs. In my opinion of course, but they have been our companions for 1000's of years, and it must be for some intrinsic skills which they posses. Every body I know who gets to know my dogs love them. It is simply a human bond which we enjoy as humans. People should work hard to make it work. 

Material things aren't important. It is friends, family and dogs for me, and copious amounts of booze. Hey joking there. And my cats and chickens. . And of course wild animals and nature is all I need. Jez I feel like Steve Martin here. lol


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I was speaking with the director of our local Humane Society last month. She asked me what type of dog I had. When I told her GSD, she paused - then said GSD's & Labs are the hardest dogs to train. 

I immediately said "Yes, but the training pays off 10 fold". What I should have said to her is - "They wouldn't be harder to train if they didn't have so much capacity to learn......"


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Op, your dog has separation anxiety. Mine had exactly the same behaviour at the same age. It's easily dealt with via training. Google "separation anxiety" and learn how to deal with it.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

interesting remark Stone, as I own GSD and work with Labs.... i find both breeds to be the easiest to train by far. if I remember correctly that lady had some other odd opinions too. anyway, if they're the hardest then I'm a better trainer than I thought, ha!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Fodder said:


> interesting remark Stone, as I own GSD and work with Labs.... i find both breeds to be the easiest to train by far. if I remember correctly that lady had some other odd opinions too. anyway, if they're the hardest then I'm a better trainer than I thought, ha!


I agree with you too, oddly I have had labs too and both very easy to train once that reward is found 

I think, if I may guess, what is meant by the common "hard to train" comment is just that it is a constant evolving process for the rest of their lives. You are always going to be challenging them, mentally. While a lot of breeds you can get away with a quick OB session as pups, they learn and then no more is done, GSDs (and labs) should always be training, IMO. That causes people to misuse the word "hard" so it's not that they are "hard" just that it takes more effort to keep them occupied than many others.


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## Fox33 (Oct 3, 2015)

Ok so I am not annoyed and don't want to get rid of him but actually I am very reluctant to get rehome him the only reason I want to is for his benefit not mine.
He has been to the vets and only had his first jab so it isn't possible to take him for walks at present but we do exercise him in the garden and okay with him.
He does understand no and we have thought him sit already. We are training him everyday and he is doing well.
The only problem is the separation anxiety and that is what is driving me mad.
Mainly because j have bad anxiety anyway and I'm constantly thinking about my neighbours and concerned my puppy is upset.
The vet said I am being silly and I have to remember he is a dog and he needs to learn he is bottom of the pack.
I am so confused cause I have been given/read so much conflicting advice.
My vet says start as you mean to go on and she has always had gsds and crate him down stairs at night and ignore the cries and he will eventually learn that crying doesn't work. Which is almost an impossible task because he is so loud and does it for hours and hours on end and I feel awful for him I just want to go down there and comfort him which I know would be letting him 'win' so he knows he can cry and I will come running. 
Other day sleep on the sofa with him a couple weeks or have him crated in your bedroom for a couple weeks but j can't see then how he will be ok with going downstairs or me going upstairs? 
Also he isn't crated in the day we just don't let him in our living room because he chews things in there. 
We have recorded him while we have been out and he howls for hours and I mean hours.
I havnt been to work since I got him which has been 5 days now but my partner has and when I go back I will come home at lunch and fuss him and let him out and feed him. But I need to go to the shops or to my mums and he howls and cries the whole time! What I'm asking is will he eventually learn that it's ok and crying won't bring me back but I will come back? 
I had obviously researched gsd puppies before we got one and we know quite a few people with them but had no idea it would be this extreme and intense. How do you know until it happens to you?? 
My partner is extremely active and when we can go for walks he will be taken everywhere he can with us. 
But for now he can't go for walks etc. he won't even touch a kong and isn't very motivated but toys and treats at the moment.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

It depends on the dog. You may have gotten a nervy, insecure one. Mine never cried or howled once. He is still a quiet dog.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Also, dogs are emotional mirrors. If you have anxiety, he will pick up on it and be just as anxious. I am still of the opinion that this is not the dog for you.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"My vet says start as you mean to go on and she has always had gsds and crate him down stairs at night and ignore the cries and he will eventually learn that crying doesn't work. Which is almost an impossible task because he is so loud and does it for hours and hours on end and I feel awful for him I just want to go down there and comfort him which I know would be letting him 'win' so he knows he can cry and I will come running"

an unproductive behaviour gets extinquished

as sunflowers said , you may have gotten an insecure , nervy dog. Then the best thing to do is not to feed into that insecurity . 

Put him into his crate , put the radio on - talk radio stations are good because they become a background pattern of noise -- shut the lights and go about your business with some ambient noise so that your ears aren't keyed into listening to the pup.

Before you put the dog into the crate make sure that he has had a chance to relieve himself so that there are no urgent internal pressures . Put a small treat into the crate -- easy to make , dried chicken hearts , if kibble fed a few bits of kibble . If the dog is really stressed you could give him a squirt of Bach flower remedies , Rescue. 

Do this and wait for the dog to be quiet for 10 minutes and then go and bring him back into the action. When you get him don't get excited . Bring him out in a dry matter of fact way . Engage in some activity , minor bits of training . This is where you get all happy and excited with praise . Then back to routine. After a while give dog opportunity to relieve himself . Back into the crate he goes . This time a longer period where he has to be quiet before he is integrated into the action again.

You keep doing this . Short and several periods of going in and coming out. The dog then understands that he isn't forgotten.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Fox33--How big is the crate? My 9 week old puppy did not like a smaller crate. I ended up getting a full-size crate for an adult GSD and he did fine. He gradually got bigger so he doesn't mind the closed-in feeling now as an adult.

Just checking, as a bigger crate made a huge difference. I had 2 full-size crates (well actually 3--one for my vehicle). One in my bedroom and one in the living room. That way he could sleep in the bedroom and the one in the living room so he could be where the "action" is but easily contained if I could not be vigilant about watching him.

Never open the crate door while the pup is actually fussing. Turn your back to the crate, when pup is quiet, then open the crate.

Take care!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I like the crate by my bed, especially with a pup. Ironically Barker the Younger 2nd was crate trained before I brought her home. She loves going in her crate (crate games) but she would wail and carry on when I first left her there. She will also still, at 2 yo, fuss loudly when BTE & I go out the door to train. Some are like that.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

st


Fox33 said:


> Ok so I am not annoyed and don't want to get rid of him but actually I am very reluctant to get rehome him the only reason I want to is for his benefit not mine.


You just mentioned the best reason for anyone to rehome a dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sigh ....if the "puppy" is whining and crying in the crate for hours??? 

Go with the Pro's:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/584842-separation-anxiety-shut-up-dog.html

You can cover the crate with a blanket, feed the puppy "only" in the crate, give "carmspack's" advise a try ...if all of that fails ...then it's time to get real!

"Correct" the puppy "in the crate" for unwanted behavior! 
You "can" correct a dog for unwanted behavior in the crate!


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

German Shepherd puppies can be very frustrating. Mine had an all out whining fit for an hour or more in his crate every night for a month. As he got older he would do anything to spill my coffee every morning. He would steak sticks of butter off the counter, counter surf and go threw the trash cans. He tore the carpet up in three places and chewed the corner of a wall. Not to mention the many pair of ripped pants I had from him being a land shark. 

They take a lot of patience, discipline and work. I did not trust my dog out of his crate until he was 7 to 8 months old. He was never unsupervised in the house, At times he was leashed to me so i could get things done around the house. 

He eventually calmed down and realized what the rules are. He is two now and a wonderful dog. I never thought of giving up on him though. I knew he would get trained and grow up one day. I proved to be more stubborn than the dog. 

He loves his crate now.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

With my girl(mini mastiff) as a pup, I just gave in to the whining and let her sleep with me. I wouldn't put a pup away in another part of the house. You can wean the pup off after a few weeks/months and teach it to sleep on the floor and then in another room. Now my dogs sleep on my couches full time in the sitting room. I don't use crates or separate dogs unless dogs don't know each other who are staying with me or someone is in heat. 

I didn't really care too much if the pup chewed up things. She got some shoes alright. I reckon it better to leave good shoes out of sight. Thats what pups do. They sometimes ignore the toys and aim for the things with your scent on them or a texture they like.

Sometimes unconventional methods work. You allow the pup with you all the time and wean it off in the future. Put it in a ruck sack and carry it around. Experimentation can work many times. There is no set way to bring up pups and people generally use a technique that works for them. 

The highly recommended methods probably work with most pups but not all are pups are the same. 

The most important thing to do it not to coddle the pup, or make a fuzz. When you do meet it after been out ignore it for a few minutes, go about normal business. No touch, talk or eye contact for 5 mins is a pretty easy method. Then pup/dog does then not associate your greeting with excitement.

Been aloof with it also sends the message your temperament can't be affected by its behavior. Picking up pups is good not to hold them like babies. It's mother picks it up by the neck. You can do like-wise and support under belly with other hand. 

Carmpacks advice is spot on to if using the crate but in general as well. Loads more good advice is here on this thread and many more on the forum. Mine is to show you different options and the way I do things. Your imagination is a great tool sometimes in dealing with issues and training a dog. Don't have to go with a vets idea or whatever. They might not even have a dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MadLab said:


> With my girl(mini mastiff) as a pup, I just gave in to the whining and let her sleep with me. I wouldn't put a pup away in another part of the house. You can wean the pup off after a few weeks/months and teach it to sleep on the floor and then in another room. Now my dogs sleep on my couches full time in the sitting room. I don't use crates or separate dogs unless dogs don't know each other who are staying with me or someone is in heat.


Now this is "funny??" All my Bullys slept with me also! And the furniture thing too!

But "liberties" such as those, led "me" to "issues" with my GSD, I suspect???

My GSD is why I started to ask myself ... "Well what do the Pro's do??"

Small world indeed!


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## GSDKIMBER (Jan 9, 2015)

I dont think your ready for this breed. Take the puppy back to the breeder before its a 2yr old untrained dog sitting in a shelter looking for a home.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

GSDKIMBER said:


> I dont think your ready for this breed. Take the puppy back to the breeder before its a 2yr old untrained dog sitting in a shelter looking for a home.


Yes, please do.


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## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

To the original poster - 

Please do keep in touch with us if you decide to keep the dog - we are all here to help. There are amazing owners here who can give you a tonne of great advice.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Some of these stories make me laugh. You just have to have patience. Apollo has been the most mischievious, but in a cute way. He insists that blankets and pillows don't belong on the couch--everyday. I put pieces of furniture on the one couch so he can't remove that one. He has figured out how to take apart the carpet tiles--He moved the couch on Friday to get one. So now I move the furniture before I leave so he can't move anything. I have an empty expen on the other area rug. I put an old vacuum I was throwing out on the other carpet--he chewed that wire. I now have heavy duty tape for them. I laugh when I walk into my house, everything is boobie trapped. He is definitely going through a phase and hopefully my carpet and blankets make it through


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am a baby. 

All I knew is my momma and litter mates, and the lady with the food. 

I was with my momma and littermates all the time. They were awesome companions, we played and played and then collapsed in a pile to sleep. We ate together and got drinks from momma. When something happened we were all together, and momma was there, like when we went to the big scary white place, and they had this bee that got me, but I didn't even flinch -- they said so. 

And, sometimes momma barked and sometimes she got all excited. But with momma there, we weren't scared. We got excited because the lady with the food brought food and toys and stuff. The food came and everyone gathered around. There were toys and tails to chase and always a brother to wrestle with which is the funnest thing in the whole world.

Then one day other people came. They looked at us and picked me. They took me away from the play yard, and my nice warm sleeping place, where I piled up with my brothers and sisters. Momma was barking and my brothers were making noise, but I wasn't too scared because the lady with the food was walking with us. The new people got into the car with me. I wasn't too sure about this. I wimpered. But they were holding me, and it seemed ok. We were going for a ride in the car. 

I don't know if I threw up on the way home. I don't remember much about it. I was worried about where my brothers and sisters were. I never went anywhere without them. It was a long ride. I think maybe I fell asleep.

But then, I came into this new place. I looked for my momma. I couldn't see her or hear her or even smell her. I was frightened. My brothers weren't here either. It was just me, and everything smells so funny. Everything sounds so strange. I wasn't hungry. The food seemed the same, I think. But, I dunno. It's different. 

They put me in this box. It was small, and I felt safe in there, but I couldn't get out. And momma was gone. And my brothers and sisters are gone, and I am all alone. I have never been alone before. It's scary. It's lonely. Where is my mamma!!! Where is the lady with the food? Ok, you, new lady, I want to be with you so I am not all by myself. 
Maybe if you are here, it is ok. It will be ok. Don't Go Away!!!

Every day, I forget a little about how it used to be. I do other stuff with the people that have me. I figured out stairs today. That was pretty cool. And when that scary thing in the room they called the bathroom made that noise, I thought it was going to bite the lady, but she seemed to be ok with it. I wasn't too sure. Maybe she has power. Maybe she can protect me from the scary thing.

And they put this rope thing on me, and tried to take me out. At first I thought I was going home. But we walked and walked. I was tired. But I kept walking. Finally, I sat down and wouldn't walk any more. She picked me up and carried me the rest of the way back to their house. 

And I can't just pee anywhere. They scooped me up and took me outside. I think they want me to pee outside. Not sure, but I think so. It's strange. I never really thought much about peeing before. 

Night is the worst. They shut all the doors and stuff, and I can't hear anything. I want to tell them to move this box thing to the bedroom so I can hear them sleeping. Then at least I wouldn't feel all alone. I cry because I am alone, and I miss sleeping with the others. I don't think I'm supposed to be all alone. I am trying to tell her that.


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

Kyleigh said:


> ...There are no breaks - EVER. You have a dog that is super smart, and has lots of energy, endurance, stamina ... even as a puppy...By 4 months, my dog knew 10 commands (not bomb proof, but she knew them)...*At 11 months, I had a magical moment with her, and then we bonded ... but it was A TON of work. *...I easily spend 5-6 hours EVERY SINGLE DAY regardless of how I feel, walking, working her, playing with her, etc.


Wow---Been there! Done that! Have the shirt to prove it!! (And Leo was a mouthy little punk! 

Kyleigh---RIGHT ON!!! I never thought we (Leo & I) would get to this point, but the *bonding*, the commands (although it took us, [email protected] months to get there , and the work paid off! I never thought that it would be continuous 4-6+ hours DAILY of reiterating training efforts as well as high activity to support him, but it does---and it is worth it! If one doesn't have the time to care for a GSD in the way they need, it is worth looking at all options for keeping the pup in the family...we did---we acknowledged that the way (and consistency in which) we were going about training was not right for Leo---we addressed it and it took a bit longer to get to where we are now (no biting!!! no whining  no pulling on walks---but still a bit crazy in the car with those random bushes )---but totally worth it! 

A couple things that helped us get through the "Leo is out of here" phases:


-we used an ex-pen (early on) to corral him and keep him from getting into "things"; we used it through 8/9 months, which was too long to utilize but we were separating a senior dog and Leo. Ex-pen allowed us to go about our daily routines without worrying we'd step on our little fellow!
-crate!!!we utilized many of these ideas when using the crate--> http://www.sithappens.org/PDFs/LoginArea/HandoutCrateGames.pdf; we utilized crate from day 1 (covered it, per the handout) and used it for his nap during the day and night sleep. Invaluable tool! We still use it.
-Our awesome trainer; we are close to a GSD club and tried to do the class with multi-dogs but Leo was better 1 on 1 (positive training worked for us, too---true it takes a bit longer but whatever works). 
 Our trustworthy day camp/care for socialization (and break to work or think or nap) 1-2 (half) days a week. 
-A reset. We took Leo to a Boarding Trainer who taught _us_ how to be better owners as well as how to work best with Leo. Sometimes you need to just reset your training and start again.
Wyoung2153 summed it up pretty well: _"My personal advice is to take a step back and really evaluate if you and your partner can handle caring for a puppy. Basic obedience takes time and patience. Some days you are going to be so mad and others you are going to remember why you got your pup in the first place.. but you have to get past the bad annoying days before the good ones start coming around." _

You have to have the time to make the time for your pup. Some people don't have that (family, family priorities, work, school, etc) and that is ok. Good advice on options here...good luck!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

This is a handout I wrote for new puppy owners and how I have raised my last four pups with success.

Prepare for these first few nights as follows. Put a sleeping bag on the floor next to your side of the bed with a soft towel for the puppy to sleep on and to make him associate it with peaceful quiet time. Assure your partner or spouse that this is only for two nights and a guarantee for a good night’s rest for everyone. Have a container with tiny treats ready. Save this particular treat only for bed time to establish a routine so he will understand what’s expected from him. This will come in handy when he has to sleep somewhere else like when you are traveling with him later on.
Don’t take him into your own bed to prevent a routine you don’t want. Instead take him with you in the sleeping bag on the floor. He shouldn’t have a problem sleeping after a long and tiring first day away from his former home. Take him outside to relieve himself just before you go to bed. Don’t leave him alone when you are getting ready for bed. Keep him with you on leash, even when you go to the bathroom Then the big moment comes when you are sharing your sleeping bag with your brand new puppy. Give him his small treat. Turn off the lights to make him associate the dark with sleeping. Most likely it won’t take long before he falls asleep, safely and warm next to you. Enjoy him and realize what a privilege it is to have this beautiful creature starting his new life with you. 
You will wake up when he gets restless. Wait a few moments to see if he goes back to sleep or really has to go outside. You don’t want to rush outside as soon as he moves around. If he continues being restless, leash him and carry him outside to the designated area, no matter the weather. If you are not able to sleep, just enjoy the company of your new little friend. Hold him, pet him and just love him and be happy. This is great bonding for you and your puppy and a great foundation for a life with your new dog. Do not wash the puppy towel, unless it’s been soiled; you need to preserve the scent for the third night.
These first few nights will become precious memories when your puppy has grown into an adult dog.
So, now you probably wonder if you can ever return to your own bed without your puppy. The answer is, “Yes”. After the second night of camping out in your bedroom, it’s time to move to the next level; you back in your own bed and your puppy next to you on the floor in a box.
Arrange a large box that can’t tip over if your puppy leans against the inside walls and put it next to your bed. Wear an old T-shirt during the day which you give to your puppy at night. It will have your scent on it which is now familiar and comforting to him. Give him his towel as well, which will remind him of positive night time. Give him his (small) night treat as soon as you put him into the box. Of course he will try to reach you. Gently lower your hand into the box so he knows you are there. Then hope for the best and try to get some sleep. If you hear him getting restless after a few hours, wait to make sure he really needs to go out.
Young puppies of about seven and a half weeks of age need to go out at least once a night. If you take him out as soon as he is making some sounds, he will learn how to get your attention and will get you up as often as he pleases. Wait until he is quiet before you take him out of his box.
Puppies over ten weeks of age are usually able to sleep through the night (11.00 PM – 6.00 AM next morning) unless there is a physical problem.
If you give him his last feeding at 5 PM and remove his water at 6 PM, you will help him to stay clean and dry for the night. Keeping him calm about an hour before bed time, makes it easier to settle down in his box. Take him out for his last trip just before you go to bed and take him out the first thing in the morning before you allow him on the floor.
At the age of about eleven weeks, he should be well settled in his new home. His bed in his crate during the day will now be familiar to him. By this time he should be crate trained and able to sleep in a closed crate. Now you can put the crate next to your bed. The same night treat will remind him of the routine that it’s bedtime now and that all activity has stopped for the day.
When he is about sixteen weeks old he can sleep in his crate in the living room; he is more independent from you now. But he won’t mind sharing your bedroom every night; it’s good bonding time, especially if he has to spend some time alone during the day.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

selzer said:


> I am a baby.
> 
> All I knew is my momma and litter mates, and the lady with the food.
> 
> ...


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I have to laugh at people advising the op to return the pup. 

It was suggested, they decided to keep it and people still want to advise to give it up. It begins to feel more malicious if it's repeated over and over. It just turns into negativity, as in if you don't have something positive to say, don't say anything. Or say your piece and be done. 

Was every one a super puppy raiser and dog trainer naturally or did people actually learn how to do it over time and through experience??

Did people who post that, not make mistakes and feel defeated at times? Did they need encouragement at times or support? I wonder. I know people have difficulties with pups. 

I believe it is easy and any one can do it, but at the time with no experience it can seem like a real struggle. 

Any ways carry on. I appreciate real advice and I'm sure the op will too.

There has been good advice given.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

MadLab said:


> I have to laugh at people advising the op to return the pup.
> 
> It was suggested, they decided to keep it and people still want to advise to give it up. It begins to feel more malicious if it's repeated over and over. It just turns into negativity, as in if you don't have something positive to say, don't say anything. Or say your piece and be done.
> 
> ...


Do you own a GSD yet?


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I own cross bred mutts, I have worked with gsd 's and used to mind them at a dog kennel I was helping out at. Have trained as well with a Gsd club. Have 15 years owning and dog sitting/walking many breeds.

But if you think I'm not qualified to comment on posts then thats your opinion and your entitled to it but it won't stop me.

I'll let you know when I get more dogs don't worry. At the moment I can only manage what I have and am not gonna get a dog to appease others or allow me fit in with a click.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

MadLab said:


> But if you think I'm not qualified to comment on posts then thats your opinion and your entitled to it but it won't stop me.
> .


And yet you get on others' case for what they post.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Isn't that the way of the thread

People post, people comment, people comment on comments

Maybe I missed something but I think that is totally ok and well within board rules


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

MadLab said:


> With my girl(mini mastiff) as a pup, I just gave in to the whining and let her sleep with me. I wouldn't put a pup away in another part of the house. Now my dogs sleep on my couches full time in the sitting room.
> 
> The most important thing to do it not to coddle the pup, or make a fuzz.


This confuses me.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

MadLab said:


> Isn't that the way of the thread
> 
> People post, people comment, people comment on comments
> 
> Maybe I missed something but I think that is totally ok and well within board rules


Carry on, then...


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

This by far is one of the best I have read on this forum to date!! Well done Sue!






selzer said:


> I am a baby.
> 
> All I knew is my momma and litter mates, and the lady with the food.
> 
> ...


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Originally Posted by *MadLab*  
_With my girl(mini mastiff) as a pup, I just gave in to the whining and let her sleep with me. I wouldn't put a pup away in another part of the house. Now my dogs sleep on my couches full time in the sitting room.

The most important thing to do it not to coddle the pup, or make a fuzz. _


Saphire...This confuses me.

To me letting the pup in the bed and spending time with it doesn't equate to making a fuzz or coddling it. There is a difference between coddling and cuddling. 

People need to be aloof with a pup imo. It doesn't mean to not care or not be concerned but you internalize these feelings and only project confidence and assertiveness to your dog/pup.

Putting into a crate and away from you can be traumatic for a pup. Why should it cry all night when it can be in bed with you. Once it gets comfortable with the new pack and being away from mother and litter mates, then you can teach it to be secure in it's own skin.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Debanneball said:


> This by far is one of the best I have read on this forum to date!! Well done Sue!


I actually got sad thinking about how they feel...it was a very real kinda post

Imagine how scared they are, I think this can apply to any dog really.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

When a puppy whines/cries and the reaction is to bring that puppy into your bed so THEY are comfortable, imo that is most definitely coddling. 
Why is it so wrong to teach a puppy they are ok in their crate? Why encourage bedtime snuggling only to "wean" them from it later. For those dogs prone to SA, you have now encouraged that behaviour. 
It's like teaching a puppy to do their business on newspapers, then spend months moving the papers outside. 

This is a puppy, not a person.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> Why is it so wrong to teach a puppy they are ok in their crate?


It is not wrong at all. Some info on how to do it correctly in this thread.

I can only give my opinion and experience and another perspective. None of my dogs have any SA. I don't use crates or separation unless issues need serious correction or a dog is in heat. I will use social isolation in extreme cases.

I brought up terrier pups and did separate them as they had fleas etc. Thats common sense to me. In the long run I don't think you can damage a pup by crating up and separating. The natural temperament will shine through any ways.

If someone is overly stressed trying it one way then why bother with that battle and take it easy and enjoy the fur baby in bed. You exactly know when the pup wakes and wants to go potty. So you begin to understand there rhythm and don't get a pup/dog peeing in the crate.

So many variables in bringing up a pup, there are so many ways to do it and not have issues with it. If one way isn't working try another.



> When a puppy whines/cries and the reaction is to bring that puppy into your bed so THEY are comfortable, imo that is most definitely coddling.


I would take a good nights stress free sleep over many other things in life. It is important for people bringing up pups not to find it stressful imo. Let it sleep with you for a month, then on a blanket on the floor for whatever time you like and then in another room when it is older. To me that is a simple progression and not coddling at all.

I prefer to support the weak rather than ignore it. SO if a pup cries I attend to it. I'll make it feel secure and leave with it comfortable and so not have issues with SA. I've commented on SA before and think I have a good handle on that aspect of training.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

MadLab said:


> It is not wrong at all. Some info on how to do it correctly in this thread.
> 
> I can only give my opinion and experience and another perspective. None of my dogs have any SA. I don't use crates or separation unless issues need serious correction or a dog is in heat. I will use social isolation in extreme cases.
> 
> ...


Like it or not, you coddle your puppies and if it works for you .... perfect.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Saphire said:


> Like it or not, you coddle your puppies and if it works for you .... perfect.


Probably works with other breeds.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I'm actually pretty rough with dogs and have a tough justice but I will always nurture the weak. Thats my genetic code if you will. His opinion is his, hers is hers and yours is yours, it actually doesn't mean jack. Definitions and words is how we try to communicate. Dogs work with energy and body language.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

A puppy whining/crying in a crate does not equate to a weak puppy.
I'm not at all talking about being physically rough.

In the words of my old trainer whom I worked with for many many years, "If you always remember that dogs do what is best for dogs, you WILL be successful in your training"


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

There is a 2 way manipulation. It manipulates you and you manipulate it. But if you realize the situation it cannot manipulate you at all. 

I know a dog is a predator and will take advantage where it can to improve it's situation. It will try to manipulate people as people are so easy to manipulate and the dog knows this. 

I don't feel taken advantage by allowing pup in bed with me. I don't believe in crates. My dogs are my security guards free to roam. When pups they stay with me, end of my story. lol


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

MadLab said:


> There is a 2 way manipulation. It manipulates you and you manipulate it. But if you realize the situation it cannot manipulate you at all.
> 
> I know a dog is a predator and will take advantage where it can to improve it's situation. It will try to manipulate people as people are so easy to manipulate and the dog knows this.
> 
> I don't feel taken advantage by allowing pup in bed with me. I don't believe in crates. My dogs are my security guards free to roam. When pups they stay with me, end of my story. lol


Ok I now understand.....you don't believe in crates/crating. Fully explains why you recommend people have puppies in bed with them.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

People rely on crates. When I hear of dog at 2 not allowed out cause he'll destroy the place then I wonder wouldn't it have been better to deal with the pup destroying things and then the dog would be fine.

I'm not against crates, just don't think they will aid my situation.

Lots of good info on crate training out there. If you have small apartment or big luxurious house then maybe it's for you. I've a 4 bed with acre in the country. No neighbors for half mile. Need dogs to be alert and on guard.

But at the end of the day I love a to snuggle up with gf and pups in bed.

Is that so mad :crazy:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Wow. So much snarking in this thread. I'll just add my thoughts to the original post.

FIRST....FIND A GOOD TRAINER! There is no substitute for a hands on trainer.



Fox33 said:


> We got our 8 week old GSD puppy 4 days ago and I can't not be out of his sight without him screaming the house down!
> 
> This is normal. He's in a new place and scared. Think of him as a toddler (he's about that mentality right now). Let him follow you. That will pay off later when you NEED his focus! Reward him for looking at you.
> 
> ...


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

I just slept next to the crate. That's because Bella would cry all night and my mother in law couldn't get any sleep. When we moved into my house I let her sleep in the garage. She kind of cried because I wasn't next to her so I slept on the couch that lead to the garage so she could see me. Eventually I started drifting away and now she's fine; she has no issues at all.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

MadLab said:


> I'm not against crates, just don't think they will aid my situation.
> 
> 
> But at the end of the day I love a to snuggle up with gf and pups in bed.
> ...


See, and this is why information given on an Internet forum is sometimes confusing.
You are telling someone to take the dog to bed, when they are trying to crate train. But you did not say that you are fundamentally opposed to crates, yourself.

This is not about cliques. 
To me, what you're saying is equivalent to "I'll give you advice about what to do with babies, but I don't have kids, I just know a lot of adults."

I ask if you have raised a German Shepherd puppy not because I want to be snarky, but because until I did (and I raised several other breeds) I never encountered the issues and challenges that a GSD pup presents.

I can honestly say that I have had dogs, and then there was a German Shepherd. I can also say that until I raised one, I would not have been at all qualified to give advice about this particular breed. At the very least, had I come on here to give advice, I would have said upfront that I never raised a GSD puppy.

I say that because I remember some of your earlier posts, containing advice that I believed would not have worked with a GSD.

I know your opinion is different. This, however, is mine.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Sometimes people who need help with their young GSD's are posting here for the first time. Some give very little information and do not respond to suggestions made or even acknowledge that they have considered any of them. Certainly - questions would arise if they were thinking and not just venting. 

Giving little information, not stating any preferred training methods etc leads to some very abrupt answers being given. What else can people do? I do not like to respond to these types of posts because of lack of information and participation by the person asking for help, they tend to degrade into some assumptions being run with in the wrong direction and training methods being argued over. 

To me, posting for help here and then not participating in the discussion in any way or asking questions reflects the lack of willingness and training abilities of the poster. There have been a few of these lately. That may be why some are still thinking rehome the dog. Better responses to the request for help would bring better specific answers to that request.....


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Breed doesn't matter, it's individual dogs. Not all GSDs are the same. Robyn cried and threw a fit, then got over it--out of crate by 7 months. Midnite was older and he escaped numerous times-out of the crate after a month at about 11 months. Then there is Apollo, he really was never in the crate in the beginning, he went off in a corner and slept. When I did attempt to put him in the crate he went to the bathroom every time. He was out of the crate for good at 5 months, because it was less stressful for both of us. Brennan the golden destroyed anything in the crate. I prefer crate training but all dogs are different and require different things. Not all dogs love crates, not all dogs hate crates. People have to be open minded and they have to know their dog. My younger golden was by far worse then all three GSDs. He is still behind a gate because he is a very powerful chewer, he puts the GSDs to shame in that department. 


So to the OP, work with your pup, think out of the box and do what you gotta do to get results--with or without a crate.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> To me, posting for help here and then not participating in the discussion in any way or asking questions reflects the lack of willingness and training abilities of the poster. That may be why some are still thinking rehome the dog...


Yes, and it is also the attitude of the poster.
We can only go by what they are saying, and how they are saying it. And knowing what it takes, if they are of a certain mindset and what they are doing is so far from what needs to be done, then, yes, rehoming is suggested.

It takes three years to get a decent GSD. If someone is so frustrated within the first few days, how are they going to last that long?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"I have to laugh at people advising the op to return the pup. "

Why? 

As a breeder , I would rather have the dog back sooner rather than later.

The OP probably lives in close quarters, maybe an attached home or semi- with neighbours who are not delighted , having had to apologize to them. The OP does not have a partner who is fully on-board "It is causing major arguments with my partner " So you have to weigh the negative against the positive and see if it is wise to continue - for THIS pup , who may not at all be the right match or temperament for this person.

Partners, male or female , may not be forgiving if the dog chews up one shoe . Maybe that shoe is part of the go-to-work outfit , where presentation matters. 

"I want to get rid of him already as he is too needy but I know j havnt given him a chance. Will he grow out of this neediness?"

Maybe , maybe not. We don't know the dog. We don't know how prepared you were , how careful the breeder was in selecting the pup for your needs (if at all) , how good and knowledgeable the breeder was in making this breeding and how good she/he was in raising them , pre-stressing them, giving them little tastes of being the one and only dog to give them a sense of individuality.

When I have a litter I take one away from his pals and treat him as if he was my one and only dog . The dog of the day. In the kitchen, in the yard, sitting in the car , with a visitor , with the house-cat learning some good lessons there. Then that dog is taken back to his litter and we repeat with another dog. Daily . 

It makes a difference.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

MadLab said:


> I own cross bred mutts, I have worked with gsd 's and used to mind them at a dog kennel I was helping out at. Have trained as well with a Gsd club. Have 15 years owning and dog sitting/walking many breeds.
> 
> But if you think I'm not qualified to comment on posts then thats your opinion and your entitled to it but it won't stop me.
> 
> I'll let you know when I get more dogs don't worry. At the moment I can only manage what I have and am not gonna get a dog to appease others or allow me fit in with a click.


But have you ever owned one that you raised from puppy age on? That is completely different than having cross breds or working (without owning) with the purebreds. If you actually own the pup, you are emotionally involved and that makes it very tough and overwhelming sometimes as you can read on this forum.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> And yet you get on others' case for what they post.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sunflowers said:


> *It takes three years to get a decent GSD.* If someone is so frustrated within the first few days, how are they going to last that long?


I keep seeing you post this. Where are you getting 3 years from? That number is just so skewed compared to either of my GSDs. One a pound puppy with weak nerves and the other from a breeder with great nerves. By the time they were 9 months, I had good dogs. Not perfect but certainly good. In fact, even as puppies they weren't terrible. I've been around dozens of dogs that by the time they were one were "decent".

So what exactly is your criteria for decent? And how did you come to the determination of three years?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Hans was also "good" by 9 months.
But fully mature, obedient, affectionate, and most important, having great impulse control, yes, it took three years.
As for where I got the number, that is when they mature. A breeder friend of mine also told me this-- wait until he's three and it will have been worth it.

Maybe people with more experience can have that sooner. As a first timer, it took me a while, maybe he would've been better quicker had he not been my first GSD.

PS-- and we still have a little bit to work on with bothering the cat.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I've seen dogs at 18 months have that. How discouraging for new owners to see "3 years". That may be your experience but I don't believe it's a very good rule of thumb in general. It's all about the training and genetics. And that will vary for every dog.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

"I have to laugh at people advising the op to return the pup. "

Why? 



> As a breeder , I would rather have the dog back sooner rather than later.





> if you don't have the patience and have buyer's remorse it is much better to go back to the breeder who may have someone waiting for a pup, rather than , muddling through it with resentment and impatience and doing a bad job of it , off on the wrong foot , and having an assortment of other problems caused by this , which are not solvable and make for a poor candidate for re-homing.
> 
> (which may be inevitable because of your partner)


I totally agree with this post of yours, and your opinion is invaluable to the op.

It is when people continue to say it after the op says he decided to keep the pup that it becomes unhelpful to the op.

I wonder what satisfaction they get from telling others to return pup.


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## amburger16 (May 22, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> I've seen dogs at 18 months have that. How discouraging for new owners to see "3 years". That may be your experience but I don't believe it's a very good rule of thumb in general. It's all about the training and genetics. And that will vary for every dog.



As someone that was new here 6 months ago, it was very discouraging. I had a puppy I took off the hands of an irresponsible owner who had an accidental litter, my first GSD. Obviously knowing that this dog could be a disaster just from poor breeding, I came here for help and answers.. 

This poorly bred dog was crate trained in a week, house trained in 3. At 6 months old I could have him lay down and line his whole body with treats and he wouldn't move. The only time he is on a leash is the vet, obedience class he recently started, and when we go for walks. Got out of the car the other night and the neighbors cat took off, Bear took a step towards it, looked at me and I said no. He turned right around and walked with me in the house. I can put his food down and have a shower, he would still be sitting there when I got out waiting because I didn't say Ok. These are just a couple examples of how incredible he is (to me anyways, thats all that really matters), I'm very proud of him. 

It is training and genetics, due to not knowing how his genetics would play out, I was VERY hard on him. I know there is a chance he could still show some behavioral issues, and I am always on high alert with him. He is going to be on a leash alot more in the coming months as the teenage ****storm is fast approaching, his training will be upped, and I may start drinking a little more but I am confident he will be a "good dog" long before 3.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> I've seen dogs at 18 months have that. How discouraging for new owners to see "3 years". That may be your experience but I don't believe it's a very good rule of thumb in general. It's all about the training and genetics. And that will vary for every dog.


It varies per dog, per line, per genetic makeup, breeder's management and per owner especially.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> I keep seeing you post this. Where are you getting 3 years from? That number is just so skewed compared to either of my GSDs. One a pound puppy with weak nerves and the other from a breeder with great nerves. By the time they were 9 months, I had good dogs. Not perfect but certainly good. In fact, even as puppies they weren't terrible. I've been around dozens of dogs that by the time they were one were "decent".
> 
> So what exactly is your criteria for decent? And how did you come to the determination of three years?



You believe the GSD you have at one is the same as the one you have at three or four -after training and maturity?


Similar sure. The same -absolutely not. Life experience happens hopefully for the better.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Maybe people's expectations are different also.
Everyone knows these dogs mature when they are three, at least Czech lines certainly do.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mrs.P said:


> You believe the GSD you have at one is the same as the one you have at three or four -after training and maturity?
> 
> 
> Similar sure. The same -absolutely not. Life experience happens hopefully for the better.


No I do not. 

You believe it takes 3 years to get a "decent" GSD?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> I've seen dogs at 18 months have that. How discouraging for new owners to see "3 years". That may be your experience but I don't believe it's a very good rule of thumb in general.* It's all about the training and genetics. And that will vary for every dog.*





wolfy dog said:


> It varies per dog, per line, per genetic makeup, breeder's management and per owner especially.


thank you for agreeing with me.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sunflowers said:


> Maybe people's expectations are different also.
> Everyone knows these dogs mature when they are three, at least Czech lines certainly do.



See now, I see deflection. I see some condensation with "everyone knows..." I see two others automatically pick and choose parts of what I said just to argue. 

But what I don't see is an answer to what I asked.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> No I do not.
> 
> You believe it takes 3 years to get a "decent" GSD?



To have what I believe encompasses a GSD as a GSD yes -they need to be 'mature'. Is it exactly 3 years old to the very second! no. Around there yes. 


Does that mean a one year old can't be trained/polite ect? No, not saying that. To me it is more than just that however . It is approach in a tactful manner working through problems ect. It's different. Now Did I say a one year old can't problem solve? No I did not.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> It varies per dog, per line, per genetic makeup, breeder's management and per owner especially.


I agree even though I have no clue where any of mine came from. By a year old they were where I wanted them. There isn't much difference in the two older ones from when they were a year. They all get tons of training in that first year. Apollo just finished his 4th class and he just turned a year.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

llombardo said:


> I agree even though I have no clue where any of mine came from. By a year old they were where I wanted them. There isn't much difference in the two older ones from when they were a year. They all get tons of training in that first year. Apollo just finished his 4th class and he just turned a year.


Gus was nowhere near where I wanted him at 1 yr old. He is nearing 3 now and is a much more serious and focused dog now in comparison.
I think there is alot to support how much change there is between a 1 yr old and 3 yr old, training, life experience etc. all would have an impact. I find males take longer to mature mentally. I also believe breed has an impact what to expect from your puppy. Having raised and trained several Siberian Huskies in both obedience, conformation and sledding, you cannot compare to a GSD. 2 very different breeds and approaches IMO but that's a whole different thread.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> See now, I see deflection. I see some condensation with "everyone knows..." I see two others automatically pick and choose parts of what I said just to argue.
> 
> But what I don't see is an answer to what I asked.


I think you need to define your perception of mature so that we know what you are talking about. You called out another poster to dispute three years. Can you explain why before 3 years? What is "mature"? It may be two different levels that are being talked about. 

Mine was potty trained in 3 weeks and alone in the house without disturbing anything since she was 5 mos. Do I think she is mature at 16 mos or even close to it? No way. Yesterday out of the blue she ate something she took out of my shop that she has walked past a hundred times before and I had to induce vomiting. Will I expect her to do something like this when she's 3 or 4 years old. No. She's still experimenting and exploring. I slipped up because I only check on her every 5 minutes when she's in the yard and I'm in the shop with the door open. No more and we are back to square one and the shop is off limits when I'm working. 

This is the 4th GSD I have raised from a pup. I really can't say when maturity happens but I believe it takes more than training and genetics - life experience and that takes time. I can tell you what it feels like to own a mature dog vs an immature one - more trust - more knowing what to expect out of your dog in stress situations and more peace (because they just don't get themselves in to trouble as much in everyday situations. IMO this has never happened with my dogs before 2 1/2 years. Like a new pair of shoes compared to an old comfy pair.... you know what to expect based on knowing the dog so much better than the first 2 years when they are still full of surprises, changing and - maturing.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> See now, I see deflection. I see some condensation with "everyone knows..." I see two others automatically pick and choose parts of what I said just to argue.
> 
> 
> 
> But what I don't see is an answer to what I asked.


What you don't see in my first reply is an answer --that satisfies you-- to what you asked.

I don't think there is one, unless it is in agreement with you. I say this without malice-- I honestly believe you think I am wrong.

And that is perfectly fine.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mrs.P said:


> To have what I believe encompasses a GSD as a GSD yes -they need to be 'mature'. Is it exactly 3 years old to the very second! no. Around there yes.
> 
> 
> Does that mean a one year old can't be trained/polite ect? No, not saying that. To me it is more than just that however . It is approach in a tactful manner working through problems ect. It's different. Now Did I say a one year old can't problem solve? No I did not.


2 to 3 years to full mental maturity. Yes. I'm not disputing that.

But lets look at the terminology being used here. "decent" "three years to get a decent GSD" 

How intimidating is that to a new person? Decent to me isn't fully matured and near perfect. I'm sure it isn't to most people. Decent is mannerly and fun to live with.

What is the criteria for "decent"? There are a whole lot of 18-24 mth old dogs earning BH's. I would say that implies they have fairly decent impulse control on a long down. Dogs that age earning AKC titles. Dogs testing for therapy work (NOT service).

My male has always settled nicely in the house. That's just plain genetics. My dogs were "decent" at 9 months. Perfect? No. Fully matured? No, of course not. But they were most certainly mannerly and "decent". Our Boxers...what PIA's. They were crated for a very long time because they were not "decent". Hard headed and destructive. 

I've seen a lot of dogs that are more than decent at 15 months. Mature? No. But "decent". It all depends on the individual dog and the training.

(and unfortunately, when people go back and edit their posts after someone replies and the pages roll over, we don't see the expanded comments! Sunflowers did answer my question on the last page! Ugh! Stop it!)


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sunflowers said:


> What you don't see in my first reply is an answer --that satisfies you-- to what you asked.
> 
> I don't think there is one, unless it is in agreement with you. I say this without malice-- I honestly believe you think I am wrong.
> 
> And that is perfectly fine.


See above. I did not see your edited response.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

my dog is 10-I really miss her puppy crazy antics-sometimes there are glimpses and I love it


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> 2 to 3 years to full mental maturity. Yes. I'm not disputing that.
> 
> But lets look at the terminology being used here. "decent" "three years to get a decent GSD"
> 
> ...



Decent must mean something different to you than myself. No one is trying to intimidate anyone. Realistic absolutely.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

How intimidating is that to a new person? 
Depends on the person.
I spent many hours reading here, because I wanted to know what I was in for.
I was looking for honesty, and not sugar coated reassurances. What good would it have been to go in expecting one thing and finding myself in quite another situation, overwhelmed and ready to get rid of my puppy?

As Mrs P said, no one is trying to intimidate.


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

holland said:


> my dog is 10-I really miss her puppy crazy antics-sometimes there are glimpses and I love it


I hear ya!!!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mrs.P said:


> No one is trying to intimidate anyone. .





Sunflowers said:


> As Mrs P said, no one is trying to intimidate.


Nowhere did I say anyone was TRYING to intimidate anyone. 

Apparently I do have a different idea of decent. And what is realistic. I'm going to go train a few things for my dog's BH while my eggs are baking. Maybe he'll be decent in a year.:wild:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

:rofl: ahhh...I see it now. I should have put the names together sooner.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> :rofl: ahhh...I see it now. I should have put the names together sooner.


Ha! At the rate I'm going, I may end up with a 3 year old that is very indecent. Just another splendid example of misinterpretation on intent and words used to describe things I think. I see what you are saying and it seems it's all a matter of degrees.


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## Drewbacca (Jan 6, 2014)

selzer said:


> I am a baby.
> 
> All I knew is my momma and litter mates, and the lady with the food.
> 
> ...


welp, this just tore me apart.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Sue had an eloquent post that states how I am sure many pups see it.

Now to the subsequent "3 year" debate - depends on the dog.
Barker the Elder the 2nd - came out of the box with focus. Walked on a leash at the first time at PDX. You'd have thought she was born walking on a leash. Took maybe two illustrations for her to get "ring the bell to go out". Toilet trained very easily. (In a two story house at that). Would modify my clothing as I drove with her in the cab beside me, could sneak a good shoe off the bed with me inches from the shoe. Was a snap at obedience training.
Barker the Younger the 2nd. Had been crate trained before I picked her up. Was used to being left alone. Got her home, you'd never know it. Wailed like she was being tortured if the other dog and I left the house. She was a year old before she was toilet trained. At about 2 she suddenly got obedience training. Like overnight. I could use any collar and she was a champ.

I've had other dogs that "got it" right away; others that waited until they were 2. Depends on the dog. (Handler was the same BTW.) 


Predicting "when" is beyond me!


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## Apexk9 (Sep 13, 2015)

I think every GSD owner who starts with their first Dog has a moment when they have doubts. There was a point where I cried [I never cry] from frustration. 

For the Howling what I would suggest is leave your house for 5 seconds walk back in give him a treat if he didn't howl. Do it over and over and over and over again by increasing the duration you leave and when you enter avoid the dog don't make a big deal of your return.

It might help.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

My my... I leave you guys for a day and miss PAGES of back and forth  

Well Apexk9, I am with you... I remember a NUMBER of times when Titan was a pup.. gosh probably until he was about 1-2 years even that I cried in frustration with him at times. Frequently? No.. but every now and then when I was exhausted from a 16 hr shift and needed sleep but he needed attention.. oh yeah. 

Funny to point out that I do not think the OP has returned. Hope they are at least lurking and taking some small things from this thread


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

I've been reading this for days, not getting involved in the discussion of original topic. But I am curious as to whether anyone else is wondering or thinking what I have been thinking....

So a new member comes on here and posts a major hot topic that is definitely going to get a lot of attention and heated debates, blood pressures risen, etc. But the first thing in this new members post states "Not looking for judgment or criticism". Is this really even a new member? Is this someone just coming on here to stir up emotions or possibly someone who's been banned coming in under a new identity to stir the pot? Just seems coincidental to me that they would post such a hot topic right off the bat knowing they are going to get negative replies and then disappear.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> I am a baby.
> 
> All I knew is my momma and litter mates, and the lady with the food.
> 
> ...


Great post Sue.wolfy dog I liked your post as well.

OP I have only had one puppy,Daist. She was our heart and sould. Loved herbeyond measure. However after two nights of no sleep we decided to take turns camping out. I knid of missed that neediness when she was going through adolescnce. It is alot. I cried more times from frustration and how did this get so screwed up raising Daisy as a puppy that you would have thought I was not very balanced. I think frustration is part of raising a dog. I know it is w/ kids. They are so many people on the forum with great experiences and answers that I hope you find what you need. Selzer is right the pup is a a baby. I personally found Daisy to be so cute and cuddly that I probably overindulged but other then the loss of sleeep it was such a short time and she was so sweet and needy. I get it can be overwhelming.Think about what you want and what the puppy needs ,what are you willing to do and what can you live with. Selzer and Wolfy Dogs posts reflect what puppy needs from an owner. good luck and thanks for asking for help . Not many people do.


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

*Wow!!*



selzer said:


> I am a baby.
> 
> All I knew is my momma and litter mates, and the lady with the food.
> 
> ...


This is powerful---and should be "stickied" to top of puppy thread! Thank you, Sue.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Ellimaybel said:


> I've been reading this for days, not getting involved in the discussion of original topic. But I am curious as to whether anyone else is wondering or thinking what I have been thinking....
> 
> So a new member comes on here and posts a major hot topic that is definitely going to get a lot of attention and heated debates, blood pressures risen, etc. But the first thing in this new members post states "Not looking for judgment or criticism". Is this really even a new member? Is this someone just coming on here to stir up emotions or possibly someone who's been banned coming in under a new identity to stir the pot? Just seems coincidental to me that they would post such a hot topic right off the bat knowing they are going to get negative replies and then disappear.


It could easily have been someone lurking for awhile.

I've seen a few threads started by active members and they've throw down the gauntlet from the first sentence! "No haters" as it were!

I thought it was kinda cool myself! So you never know??


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## Drewbacca (Jan 6, 2014)

Apexk9 said:


> I think every GSD owner who starts with their first Dog has a moment when they have doubts. There was a point where I cried [I never cry] from frustration.


so true, i got extremely overwhelmed the first 2 nights and was in tears thinking i made a huge mistake getting a puppy, as i slept next to the crate so Roya would stop whining. it's definitely a culture shock getting any puppy, that i was not entirely prepared for, despite the extensive research and educating i did. i think that's where people fail the most. they have this life they're accustomed to, and struggle to let it go or put it on hiatus, and that realization freaks people out. it certainly did with me. but i persevered. i told myself "this is what i wanted", picked myself up and tried to raise the best **** dog i could. 

i also had a pretty good support system at my parents house, that i could drop her off at so i could go to work on weekends


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Sometimes you have to step back and realize that it is awesome to finally have a GSD puppy.
It helped a client of mine who found himself half eaten by his landshark.


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## CNSmith2006 (Sep 26, 2015)

I agree with others; think of your GSP as a human baby. 

He/she has been with numerous brothers and sisters and their parents. It takes some time to get used to sleeping alone. We got our GSP, Izzy, when she was roughly 6.5 weeks old. It took her about 7-8 days to get used to falling asleep alone and staying asleep alone. Her crate is in our living room, not our bedroom. I would suggest getting your puppy a buddy (a stuffed animal) and put on it a shirt you've worn so it will get the scent. Take the shirt off and give to the puppy. We also use an essential oil spray. I mix approx two ounces of water with about 10 drops of lavender essential oil. I spray that on her crate cover as I put her in there to go to bed for the night. The same spray can be used when the puppy gets irritated or feels stressed. I make sure to leave Izzy alone throughout the day....folding laundry, making breakfast, showering, etc. I give her a treat when she is good while I'm away, which is every time now!! Also, I'd suggest mentally stimulating the puppy with tricks. We started training Izzy a few days after we got her. She knows sit, down, shake, up, quiet, and to ring a bell when she has to potty.


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## kshadow (Oct 25, 2015)

you are tired. I remember that time. It's not easy but it's worth it. 
I would sleep on the couch and the dog in his cage. so I was close to the outdoors for pee breaks. 
Look on the bright side. It's a good thing that he follows you everywhere, this way he isn't making a mess or getting himself in trouble. 
These dogs are velcro dogs. They want to be with you. Throw treats in his crate and leave the door open. So he slowly learns that it's a fun place to be in.

Good luck!


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