# An Upsetting Standoff



## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

So, I am in the middle of a standoff with my 14-week-old puppy. He doesn't want to eat game, but I have a freezer full of game and good sources to keep getting more.

I can't just keep feeding him his favorites all the time, so I've been taking the "You eat this, or you eat nothing" stance with a large chuck of hog leg.

Gable has already missed 2 meals - an entire day's worth of food- and he's obviously hungry, but isn't willing to cave on the game yet.

I can't just keep feeding him chicken wings and ground beef his whole life, but I'm worried about how long it's safe to continue letting him go without.

Am I in the wrong here?


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## WendyDsMom (Nov 18, 2011)

I had the same problem with Wendy - only she would not train for treats because she was too well fed. She was used to wet/dry mix of food and would not eat dry. I can't make her train with wet food, so I was directed to take that out of her diet and keep her on just kibble.

The trainer said that I should make her work for her kibble. She went hungry for 3 days - then the switch flipped and now she works for kibble all day every day.

A dog in the wild does not get a good meal every day. They do experience large gaps between good meals. We have the mental handicap of considering our dogs our children - and therefore feeling it's abuse for not feeding them on schedule; but a wild dog has no schedule.

Pup needs to know you mean business - once I dug my stubborn streak in, Wendy caved. Trainer said we give too many things easily that the dog usually has to work for in the wild; food, affection, and control. 

If the pup isn't super slim and anorexic looking, you should be good for a few days. It wasn't easy - but I made it work.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

i have the same problem with my husky. i've played the 'you eat this or nothing' game with him as well and had him not eat for 2 days 

so, now i mix in something he likes with his kibble. it seems you feed raw? so i don't know what you can do. hopefully someone else can help.

but sometimes what i do is i tell him to 'eat' and i keep a high value treat near him. unless he finishes, he doesn't get the treat. it works occasionally. 

i hate this 'i won't eat game' with my husky  i hope we figure something out...


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Yeah. I've had this game on a lesser scale before. He'd pick out organ meat and not eat the muscle meat. I had to start withholding the organ meat until after he finished the muscle meat.

And I have heard it's okay to let dogs go without, but I've been a little worried due to his age. And he's slender, but not overly skinny, so I guess I'm okay to keep waiting him out, then?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Did he used to eat it?


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

No. He's never eaten game.


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## Minoli (Jul 19, 2011)

Have you try mixing some parts of the game with chicken and/or beef? 

It may not work, but sounds like it couldn't hurt to try.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Just like humans, some dogs have preferences to what they will and will not eat.

My Cocker Spaniel will hunt, catch and kill rabbits but he will NOT eat rabbit. Mauser, my GSD, doesn't like fish.

As long as you can get something other than beef and chicken into your pup I would wait on the game meats.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I had a Burmese python who wouldn't eat anything but rats. If I changed prey as she grew (wound up 10' before I found her a safer placement) I had to rub her prey around in a rat cage before she'd eat it.
Maybe it smells different so he isn't sure about it. Especially if it has fur on it - which I'm assuming it may since you refer to it as "game".


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> I had a Burmese python who wouldn't eat anything but rats. If I changed prey as she grew (wound up 10' before I found her a safer placement) I had to rub her prey around in a rat cage before she'd eat it.
> Maybe it smells different so he isn't sure about it. Especially if it has fur on it - which I'm assuming it may since you refer to it as "game".


Nah. It's just got a little tuft of bristle at the elbow. And the venison is totally skinned. And the goose has been plucked and skinned. And I can get him to eat a little bit if he's hungry and it's ground and mixed with organ meat/pumpkin, etc. but he won't go for the whole pieces. Is there something that stores do with their meat that would make it more appetizing to him? He's eaten pork, chicken, duck, lamb, mackerel, turkey, and beef from the store...

He's eaten duck from the store, but he won't eat wild duck. And same with pork from the store and wild hog.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

My take? You want a puppy to eat. He needs the nutrients to grow and thrive. If he doesn't like game, he doesn't like it. He might like it in a few years but right now, for whatever reason, it doesn't appeal to him. 

He does not live in the wild and it was been a very long time since his ancestors lived in the wild. And the "they'll eat when their hungry" logic doesn't actually work for a lot of dogs. 

My cousin's dog refused to eat plain kibble. They didn't want a spoiled dog so they just put his food down and picked it up, whether or not he ate it. He got thinner and thinner until he was dangerously thin. Finally they agreed to add some high quality canned food to his kibble and he started eating and gained back some much-needed weight. 

I would go with something else you know he likes (and you can certainly add turkey, lamb, etc.) and try the game again later.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Is there something that stores do with their meat that would make it more appetizing to him? He's eaten pork, chicken, duck, lamb, mackerel, turkey, and beef from the store...


Sure. They get it from farms, not in the woods, etc. 
I'm sure "game" meat tastes more "wild", because it is. 
I hate venison - only a very few pieces of it I've actually cared for. Elk is good, I like it better than venison. A deer in the wild will taste much different than a farm-raised deer with a controlled diet. 
In Alaska, bears make good meat, but you don't want to shoot one and eat it while _it's_ been eating salmon as opposed to berries. 

I think you should stick to what he likes, if he's eating that wide of variety, then you're probably doing something right.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Stark is my picky eater... he will only eat about 3-4 protein sources which I have to rotate.. I play a little trick on him and do the following:

Take the blood of the protein source he likes, save it and put it into a plastic freezer bag.

Place the meat in cubes, that he will not eat into the blood filled bags.

Let sit over night or for a good couple of days.

Pull meat out (with or without the blood) and feed.

Usually my dog will eat it this way, thinking it is beef or some other favoured protein.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Stark is my picky eater... he will only eat about 3-4 protein sources which I have to rotate.. I play a little trick on him and do the following:
> 
> Take the blood of the protein source he likes, save it and put it into a plastic freezer bag.
> 
> ...


Kind of like my burm's rat preference. 
Once the new prey item smelled like rats, she'd eat. 
I always fed pre-killed, btw...which is why I won't ever own another animal that you have to actually kill things for. 
When she graduated to bunnies it made things tough


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

One of mine hated raw organ meat.... so I gave in and seared it for him. Ate it just fine that way.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Stark is my picky eater... he will only eat about 3-4 protein sources which I have to rotate.. I play a little trick on him and do the following:
> 
> Take the blood of the protein source he likes, save it and put it into a plastic freezer bag.
> 
> ...


Oh, I like this. You're very tricky! I'll have to try this. Thanks for the advice!

He's probably gonna get it soaked in liver juice, since that's one of his favorites, but same concept.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Then he doesn't like it and he might never eat it. I hate game, too, LOL!
I tried to get Hans to eat kidney and no matter how I tried to disguise it, it was still a no go.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Well, I was going to cave tonight and offer Gabe something else...but I decided to try one more time after work, and when I offered him the hog leg again, he ate it!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Gable has already missed 2 meals - an entire day's worth of food- and he's obviously hungry, but isn't willing to cave on the game yet.


He was born in early March, right? So that makes him almost 14 weeks old???
A hog leg for a puppy is not easy to digest or chew...not sure what you actually are giving him though. He is not old enough to eat weight bearing bones! Adult dogs are not expected to ingest them either for 'meals'.
Make sure what you are feeding isn't too dense as far as bones. Please make sure you've researched raw feeding so your pup can have a great start.

Many dogs won't eat something they feel is 'off' out of natural instinct....unless they are starving.
I tend to feed food that my dogs don't like a bit frozen so they won't feel the texture so much. 
Karlo hates rabbit, I'm not going to force him to eat it. Not worth the struggle. Maybe in a year, he'll love rabbit.

A pup should be fed for proper growth and not withheld nutrition, IMO...and I won't starve my young pup to "track" better or train with more "focus" using food as a tool. 
I do use food for those instances but won't starve a pup to make him/her perform better. Or starve a pup to eat what they clearly are adverse to. 
Try cooking, freezing, searing, hiding it in another protein or seasoning instead.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> He was born in early March, right? So that makes him almost 14 weeks old???
> A hog leg for a puppy is not easy to digest or chew...not sure what you actually are giving him though. He is not old enough to eat weight bearing bones! Adult dogs are not expected to ingest them either for 'meals'.
> Make sure what you are feeding isn't too dense as far as bones. Please make sure you've researched raw feeding so your pup can have a great start.
> 
> ...


He is fourteen weeks old. I'm not giving him weight-bearing bones. I've done a lot of research. The meat is not "off". 

To be honest, a few of those insinuations were a little offensive. 

Gabe is fed a variety of meats, and his bones come from duck frames, chicken backs and feet and pieces of whole chicken, turkey necks, pig tails, etc. All things a puppy of his age is more than capable of handling. And I wouldn't give my dog meat that is off - it's perfectly good meat that I and my family eat as well.

Gable already eats all of his meals a bit frozen because that's how he likes them.

Also, I'm not trying to starve Gabe. I never once mentioned deliberately withholding food for training or any other purpose.

And I may try the searing or seasoning in the future, thank you for that.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Anitsisqua said:


> He is fourteen weeks old. I'm not giving him weight-bearing bones. I've done a lot of research. The meat is not "off".
> 
> *To be honest, a few of those insinuations were a little offensive.*
> 
> ...


I'm sorry if you felt offended, my post was in response to the age of your baby. And more of my response was from other posts, but I guess I should have included them in quotes. This is the post I was referring to as far as withholding food, and advice like this for a young growing pup can be dangerous: 


> I had the same problem with Wendy - only she would not train for treats because she was too well fed. She was used to wet/dry mix of food and would not eat dry. I can't make her train with wet food, so I was directed to take that out of her diet and keep her on just kibble.
> 
> The trainer said that I should make her work for her kibble. *She went hungry for 3 days* - then the switch flipped and now she works for kibble all day every day.
> 
> ...


One other thing, your pup is just starting to teethe so it may be painful right now(and for the next several weeks) to chew the harder bones.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

I appreciate the apology. I may be a little over-sensitive to this because I am a little sick of people (generally in person) questioning whether I know the basics what I'm doing after I've done a lot of research even before getting Gable. I have questions, of course, but who doesn't from time to time? Especially with something new...

Also, the "off" meat rubbed me the wrong way a little, because I'm really trying very hard to do what's best for him. He really isn't fed things we just don't want or scraps.

In any case, thanks for your advice, and I really appreciate the apology. Sorry if my offense was mis-directed.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Some dogs are sensitive to pork, that is what I meant by the dog sensing it was 'off'~ their tastebuds aren't interested instinctively, not that it was spoiled....my dogs will eat meat that is pretty rank, but won't touch fresh fish! Yet they love green tripe, that is some nasty smelling stuff.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Some dogs are sensitive to pork, that is what I meant by the dog sensing it was 'off'~ their tastebuds aren't interested instinctively, not that it was spoiled....my dogs will eat meat that is pretty rank, but won't touch fresh fish! Yet they love green tripe, that is some nasty smelling stuff.


Gabe seems to like fish, and he's a huge fan of green tripe, too. I always make sure to portion the stuff out when it's frozen, though, so I don't have to smell it.


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