# Dog breeder accused of hiding dog...



## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

....to prevent it being nuetered?!?! WHY???

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct--fugitivedog0321mar21,0,7977163.story


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## Shandril2 (Nov 26, 2003)

Yeah, I don't get it either.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

There is obviously more to the story than what is printed.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I would imagine it has something to do with the breeder retaining some level of breeding rights. Not something I would do on either side of the contract but I'm hearing of it being done more and more often.

Just my educated guess though.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

THAT makes more sense. Ok. Not AS confused as to WHY now. At least a POSSIBLE why.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Dawn Marie is a member of an email list I belong to. She always seemed rather level headed to me, I wonder what THE REST OF THE STORY is. Regardless, I cannot imagine anyone stealing a dog to prevent it from being neutered - that would piss me off it it happened to a dog of mine. If it's a contract dispute, IMHO it would be easier to duke it out in court than it would be to be arreseted for larceny for stealing the dog in question.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I have heard of this kennel and it does seem odd. Hopefully we will hear the whole story. I would think she must have felt desperate to do what she did.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I don't know. If the person did have some breeding rights on the dog and was hoping on a pup out of the lines, then while it may be easier to duke it out in court, by then the dog would be neutered and the point mute. Yes, the dog's owner might be found guilty and ordered to pay a small fee, but if there was a specific purpose the breeder was looking to breed in or breed back to, the compensation would not cover it for sure. 

Stealing the dog is extreme. I guess I will learn from this, and certainly not do anything that involves other people's willingness to uphold their end of the bargain, unless I can live with the consequences if they refuse. So if I absolutely need to breed back to a certain dog, I will have to keep the dog and not sell it in the first place. 

I really think it is nuts, and am trying to make sense of it by wild guesses. I am not a fan of spay/neuter, but once a pup goes to a new home, I have to accept that its owners will be making the decisions that affect its future. The only way I would consider stealing a dog back is if I knew without any question that the owners were abusing the dog. And even then, what help can I be arrested. I think even then you have to go with the authorities. If I can see without any doubt that an animal is suffering serious abuse by its owners, the authorities would have to at least investigate.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Here's another article from MSNBC about the case that goes into more detail. As in the first article, there is no mention about any contract dispute over breeding the dog. The owners paid $1,300 for Drago. Apparently they had a good relationship with the breeder until the owner's, Nathan & Kelly Bird, mentioned they were going to have him neutered, "She just kind of freaked out about what I intended to do." 

Dawn Marie showed police documentation supposedly signed by the owners turning ownership over to her. The Bird's claim the document was forged.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23741906


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Very interesting to see how this comes out.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Yep. It sure is getting interesting......


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Curioser and curioser. Man, they (the media) certainly aren't making her SOUND stable, are they? 

I'm so disinclined to be trustful of the media in this country that even though it sounds like she's loony I'm likely to side with the breeder simply due to the lack of facts. The media tends to do that when the facts don't fit the story they want to tell.

Anyway, I'll be keeping a close eye on this one.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Whatever the situation is it sounds like a mess and one where there won't be any winners.

I hope that in case at least, the dog isn't the loser.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Not to argue, but in this case, there SHOULD be winners, and it should be the owners. Its their dog. They didn't sign any ownership over to the breeder, and she needs to give the dog back.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: DrDoomNot to argue, but in this case, there SHOULD be winners, and it should be the owners. Its their dog. They didn't sign any ownership over to the breeder, and she needs to give the dog back.


If that's the situation, you are absolutley right. However, I haven't been privy to any of the details and I would imagine both sides are keeping a close lip since criminal charges have been filed.

In my experience situations like this can get messy, kind of like divorce. You have her side, his side, and somewhere in the middle what really happened......

Like I said, I don't know any of the details, I just hope it all works out well for the dog.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Yeah. Definitely.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I've always had a great deal of respect for the breeder and was shocked to see her name involved in this matter. But that's a moot point, IMHO it all hedges on who signed the document turning the dog over to the breeder. If the owners signed it then the dog belongs to the breeder. If the breeder forged the owner's signuatures, then the dog belongs to the owners. I guess it's something only hand writing experts and a court of law can untangle.

It's a sad situation for everyone.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Any updates on this case?

I believe there was a court appearance, maybe last week?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

According to this, the "next" court date was supposed to be April 28 - Activity is "pre-trial". I don't know how often they update this site.
http://www.jud2.ct.gov/crdockets/CaseDet...9b-d27a2fdba77a


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

link: http://www.connpost.com/ci_9582084
Dognapper pleads guilty
Drago, owners being reunited
DANIEL TEPFER
Article Last Updated: 06/13/2008 11:58:12 PM EDT

BRIDGEPORT — This Father's Day will be a poignant one for Nathan Bird.

On Friday, the Norwalk man went to the Stratford animal control shelter to pick up his "child" — 2-year-old Drago, a German shepherd, after the woman who spirited the dog away for several months pleaded guilty in Superior Court.

Dawn Marie Pieger, 43, of West Broad Street, Stratford, pleaded guilty Friday before Superior Court Judge James P. Ginocchio to one count of fourth-degree larceny. She was sentenced to a one-year suspended term, followed by two years probation.

As a condition of the probation, the judge ordered Pieger to undergo psychiatric evaluation and treatment and not to have any contact with the dog or its owners.

As part of the plea bargain, Pieger also agreed to sign paperwork that would allow Nathan Bird to pick up his dog at the animal shelter. She had no comment at she left the Golden Hill Street courthouse.

On June 6, Stratford police raided Pieger's home and found Drago. Pieger had previously refused to disclose where she was keeping the dog, who was taken from its owners five months ago.

Since the dog's disappearance, the Birds received reports that it had been spotted in Germany, Canada and eastern Connecticut.

"It's been a long time coming, but the outcome we wanted all along has finally occurred," said Bird as he drove to pick up the dog. "I want to thank the prosecutor, Craig Nowak and Stratford Police Officer Kevin Lyman."

Pieger, owner of Von Wymar German shepherds, is accused of taking the dog — formally named Drago Von Wymar — while the Birds were on vacation and refusing to tell them where the dog was.

Bird and his wife bought Drago from Pieger for $1,300 in October 2006, and the breeder had offered to board the dog for free whenever they went away.

Bird also mentioned to Pieger that he intended to neuter Drago. On Jan. 15, Pieger agreed to board Drago while the Birds were vacationing in Costa Rica. But when they returned, Bird said Pieger would not return the dog or tell them where it was.

Police said when they confronted Pieger, she claimed the Birds had signed over ownership of the dog to her and produced a document purporting to have been signed by them. However, the Birds claim the signatures were not theirs.

Bird said Pieger appeared to be upset when the Birds discussed neutering the dog.

"We were seeking her counsel on whether to have the dog neutered," Bird said. "We still haven't made up our minds what is best for the dog and we will be seeking counsel on that, but you can be sure it won't be from Pieger," he added.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Thanks for posting the update, I was wondering what happened.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

I knew the lady was off a bit. I know some of you posted on here that you'd dealt with her before, but something about all that wasn't right. Either they were nuts, or she was. Now we know.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

I was not aware of any of this and like others that know Dawn Marie I am just shocked







I cannot imagine was caused all of this to transpire but I *do not *think that Dawn is unstable mentally...I think there is more to this story than what is being reported....

I am just stunned... wow

Cherri


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: EastGSDI was not aware of any of this and like others that know Dawn Marie I am just shocked
> 
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> ...


I know DM too and feel the same way: There's more to it than what's published. 

She's no more wacky than I am - mentally unstable? I don't think so!


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

If someone knows more information about this to explain this craziness please PM







I would be very interested..... to me it makes no sense whatsoever









Cherri


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: EastGSDIf someone knows more information about this to explain this craziness please PM
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The psychiatric evaluation and treatment could be nothing more than something a lawyer threw in as part of the plea agreement to make it more acceptable to the prosecutor or judge.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Well, I certainly can't comment on her personally, as I don't know her, but why did a judge find her guilty? I mean, unless these poeple were abusing this dog, and nuetering is NOT abuse, then what possible explanation could there be for FORGING signatures to try and keep a dog. I mena, judge's can be biased, unfair, even vindictive, but this judge had nothing to gain. Why force her to return a dog if the owners signed him over? 
I will agree that it all makes no sense. I would truly hope that if what's being printed is false those of you who know her can convince her to come on here and tell her story, or barring that, allow someone else, because so far, to me she looks a bit off.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: DrDoomWell, I certainly can't comment on her personally, as I don't know her, but why did a judge find her guilty? I mean, unless these poeple were abusing this dog, and nuetering is NOT abuse, then what possible explanation could there be for FORGING signatures to try and keep a dog. I mena, judge's can be biased, unfair, even vindictive, but this judge had nothing to gain. Why force her to return a dog if the owners signed him over?
> I will agree that it all makes no sense. I would truly hope that if what's being printed is false those of you who know her can convince her to come on here and tell her story, or barring that, allow someone else, because so far, to me she looks a bit off.


She was found guilty because, according to the current article, she pleaded guilty to the charges.
"Dawn Marie Pieger, 43, of West Broad Street, Stratford, * pleaded guilty * Friday before Superior Court Judge James P. Ginocchio to one count of fourth-degree larceny. She was sentenced to a one-year suspended term, followed by two years probation."

The dog was seized in a raid on her house.
"On June 6, Stratford police raided Pieger's home and found Drago. Pieger had previously refused to disclose where she was keeping the dog, who was taken from its owners five months ago."

As part of the plea bargin, she only signed papers allowing the owners to get the dog from the animal shelter. The article doesn't mention what became of her original claim that the owners signed the dog over to her.
"As part of the plea bargain, Pieger also agreed to sign paperwork that would allow Nathan Bird to pick up his dog at the animal shelter. She had no comment at she left the Golden Hill Street courthouse."

The article doesn't mention why she took the dog and forged the papers except for the speculation that she didn't want the dog to be neutered.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

The clue here may be that Draco is listed on Dawn Marie's website as a stud. I am going to contact her with a link to this page. 

Hopefully she will come and defend herself so we can all understand what happened.


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

It's all over the pedigree database and she didn't go there to defend herself, why would she come her? In my eyes she got a slap on the hand and should have gotten some time out of this instead. The poor family to have to go through this for almost 5 months not knowing where he was, She's lucky that the man didn't take things into his own hands


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

The Birds knew where he was and why. There was a signed contract that the dog was not to be neutered - for crap's sake, why would anyone even think about neuter a vice sieger???

She plead guilty so the dog could get out of the pound. According to her, this is not over in the courts.

Anyway, this is from Dawn Marie: 

"there is a mutually consented signed contract between the two parties, and bird admits to police in a report to signing the agreement, bird violated the contract by neglecting the dog according to the stipulations in the contract which warranted his unconditional surrender for which he consciously did until his wife found out anyone who neglects an animal should be shot not praised. the dog was not a pet, he is a show dog under contract and cannot ever be neutered without permission from the breeder ever, if he does neuter the dog, the dog will be surrendered again and will never ever be returned. "


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

Chuck the reason this does not make sense means people who know Dawn Marie do not understand this....I have known her, online that is, for a very long time and have never gotten the impression she was ever "unstable" or that she would steal someone's pet. She is a good breeder and cares very much for her dogs. I do not think some giant wrong has happened here I think there is more to this story than we are all realizing and eventually I am sure Dawn Marie will let be known what happened. This is not IMO a story of a nutty breeder gone wrong....this is a serious breeder and her actions were probably to protect the dog in some way or her interest in him. There is nothing wrong with a breeder wanting to protect the reproductive ability of a dog they have produced and sold on a show/stud contract. Breeders work very hard to produce and title German line dogs and this one has done well. Of course she would want to protect his ability to reproduce and if the buyers had agreed to her terms to keep him intact and allow her to retain breeding rights their actions of potentially altering him would be very wrong IMO.

Cherri


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

If they signed a contract to NOT neuter the dog and were going to anyways, doesnt she have the right (if stated in contract I guess) to take the dog back?

Seems to me that if thats the case then THEY are in violation of a contract and are in the wrong.

All reasons aside, no were else with anything else would going against a contract be OK unless both parties of a contract agree'd to something else.

So why should this be different.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Cherri, that's pretty much what I'm feeling. Her dogs are her life and I remember how hard she worked to learn everything she did about how to be a good breeder.

When these people 'bought' the dog, he was 10 months old and already a show dog (he is beyond gorgeous). It was also a sort of co-ownership deal and they promised to keep up on his training. 

Burns my cookies the way that article is written.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Well, if it was a co-ownership deal, then I would think she might reconsider that in the future. People obviously didn't understand that, or didn't care, but either way were NOT going to do what the "co-owner" wanted. 
My thing is, if the dog was NOT a pet, and this was a co-ownership thing, how could they POSSIBLY think she'd be ok with nuetering. Something wasn't explained clearly, or someone didn't read everything.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I think you are going to see more and more of this type of things as more and more breeders sell dogs but try and keep some control.

In my book it's easier to either sell the dog or keep it. 

If it was a documented co ownership I doubt if the police would of been involved. Her name would of been on the AKC papers also.

If you sell or buy a dog with some kind of breeding rights, or stipulations to what the owner is going to do with the dog don't be surprised when it blows up in your face.

Just my two cents.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I figured I'd dig up this old thread since it pertains to an incident mentioned in the article linked below. Sadly, the same breeder has recently been charged with "... multiple counts of cruelty to animals."

Dog breeder charged with animal cruelty - Connecticut Post


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I dunno. Considering this breeder is the same one who threatened to sue a few members on here for some comments, I don't think I can take her side.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

She must be ok, her dogs are all kept inside.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

someone also mentioned she is the president of a local schutzund club..

I dunno


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Konotashi said:


> I dunno. Considering this breeder is the same one who threatened to sue a few members on here for some comments, I don't think I can take her side.


Wait. Wut??


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Konotashi said:


> I dunno. Considering this breeder is the same one who threatened to sue a few members on here for some comments, I don't think I can take her side.


Hadn't heard about this ... any details?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

JakodaCD OA said:


> someone also mentioned she is the president of a local schutzund club..
> 
> I dunno


I know, her dogs are sables, and they are super athletic, and sables always kind of look skinnier, so because they are not overweight, they were seized.... 

The claw length, maybe that helps with traction and handling the bite suit and sleeve??? 



Ok, I know it is not funny. I hope that if this person truly neglected her dogs they throw the book at her.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

There really isn't a lot of information but 12 dogs in double stacked crates in a home seems way less then ideal to me.

Gentle reminder that "raised in my home" may not always mean what people want or think it to mean.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

actually she bred/breeds am show lines and has been in the past quite active in that around here.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I found a thread by another user and they mentioned her kennel. One person commented about how she puts a lot of money into the dogs but doesn't have much actual knowledge of the breed and later posted that the breeder had PM'd her that she'd sue her over the comment because she lost business over it. 
She also said she'd sue the OP over the thread (not this one, but the one I looked at), but I don't know for what.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Can't edit my previous posts, but I double checked before I posted the link to the other thread on here, and it's a different breeder. I thought I found the breeder's website on here, then clicked on the link in the other thread and they both lead me to the same place. I was mistaken - my apologies.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Interesting that a user's very first post would be about this subject....


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

I don't really understand the concern about no water in the crates. When I put Freyja in her crate I don't give her water. Of course I'm only gone for a couple of hours at the most, but if she has water in her crate it is a guarantee that she will flip or spill the bowl or bucket, and then has to sit in the water until I get home. I guess if she was gone overnight and there was no water that might be an issue, but so would leaving the dogs confined for that long with no potty break. The double stacking crates does give me some concern, but not knowing all the details or the reasoning behind this I can't get too bent out of shape.

I further agree with Selzer that sables look skinnier. I have received comments about Freyja being too skinny when we're on our walks. I know her markings highlight her lines and when the sun hits her right it can trick you into thinking you can see her ribs popping through, thereby making her look extremely skinny. Every once in a while it tricks me too, and I have to go up and touch her to reassure myself that she has not suddenly developed some chronic wasting disease. (Trust me, she is quite healthy and has a healthy layer of padding over her ribs and we get to see our veterinarian at least once a week as he's my FIL) I have friends who have received similar comments about their sables. 

I would like to see an update of this article and will be watching the news around here. I appreciate the job that animal control does, but I have known them to jump the gun several times.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Caitydid255 said:


> I don't really understand the concern about no water in the crates. When I put Freyja in her crate I don't give her water. Of course I'm only gone for a couple of hours at the most, but if she has water in her crate it is a guarantee that she will flip or spill the bowl or bucket, and then has to sit in the water until I get home.


I don't put water in my dogs' crates either--and with the Vari-Kennels, they sometimes don't even have bedding in them. I do keep bedding in the wire crates.



> I further agree with Selzer that sables look skinnier.


I don't think the sables look skinnier than they are--I think that the black and tans look heavier than they are. The way the black saddle goes over the ribs, it draws the eye to the tan areas where you don't see as many bones. But the effect is that sables look skinnier by comparison, when you're used to seeing black and tans.

I keep my GSDs on the lean side (I think it's overall better for their joints and general health) and so I can sometimes see a couple of ribs when they are running around. I think that is how they are supposed to look, but everyone else says "Oh, your dogs are so skinny!" 

I think the general public is used to seeing fat dogs, so they think that's normal. Out of the hundreds of dogs I see on a regular basis, I'd say 75% of them are overweight. When everyone sees so many overweight dogs, normal dogs look "skinny" to them. 

And don't get me started on toenails. If long toenails are a crime, half my clients would be in jail.

I want to know the real story behind this, because without seeing this breeders' setup, I don't want to judge... if this breeder is guilty of a crime, I might be too!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Dog breeder charged with animal cruelty - Connecticut Post

I can get past the no water, food, or bedding in the crates. But....Re-read that story:

1. Empty dishes in the crates. Why? Why have dishes in the crate at all?

2. House smelled strongly of urine and feces.

3. Filthy conditions.

Maybe the dogs were in bad shape. Maybe they weren't. I'm sure the dogs have/will be examined and evaluated. If the conditions were as deplorable as described - there is no excuse.

Yes my dog is thin. Yes her nails are too long. She is well fed. She is clean and my house is clean. She is old. If she has an accident I clean it up. My house is not filthy and does not smell.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> 1. Empty dishes in the crates. Why? Why have dishes in the crate at all?
> 
> 2. House smelled strongly of urine and feces.
> 
> 3. Filthy conditions.


1. One of my crates has an empty dish in it--I feed my pup in her crate, and don't always take the dish out as soon as she's done eating.

2. I can't smell it, but I am sure my house must smell like litterbox to people who aren't used to having cats around. And I clean the boxes several times a day.

3. To some people, I am sure my house seems "filthy". It is a highly subjective term.

I am not at all defending this breeder if she has truly been neglecting her dogs. It's just that this article scares me a bit, because many of us could be targeted for the same thing. Especially if someone really wanted to see us go down. 

I run a grooming shop. When the dirty dogs come in, they go to the "pre-bath" crates, which are Vari-kennels. Guess what? None of those have beds in them. I don't keep water in the Vari-Kennels either, because the dogs are not in them very long. I do have beds and water dishes in the "finished groom" cages, but not every cage has a water dish in it, simply because some dogs like to knock their dishes over. 

As much as I clean, there will always be some errant hair floating around in the shop. On a day that I groomed two Corgis and GSD that are blowing coat, one might see a hair bunny drift across the floor. Filthy? Some might think so.

And let's not forget that dogs will poop and pee in the shop; even though it's cleaned up immediately, if someone walked in right after that happened, the smell would no doubt be noticeable.

I know a grooming shop is totally different from a breeder's household, I'm just saying that if someone's standards for cruelty or neglect can include things like no water or bedding in crates, smells like poo, etc., I could be in trouble. If someone reeeeaaaaallllly didn't like me, for whatever reason, they could make conditions at my shop seem much worse than they are.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Freestep....I completely agree with you.
Opinions can be both beneficial and harmful.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If AC came to my house today:

1. They would throw a hissy over Jenna's ear infection that I am trying to control.
2. They would lose their lunch over the nine crates in my sun room and a vari-kennel (too small for any of my dogs to fit in) sitting on top of one of those crates. 
3. The crates have no evidence of ever having had water in them or bedding. (Yes I might leave a dog overnight in a crate with no water.)
4. They would seize Tori as she is showing ribs right now.
5. They would grumble about toe-nails. 
6. They will pass out over the fact that I have a litter. 
7. There are always a minimum of two bitches currently blowing coat, they would have a cow about that.
8. They would probably find a pile in each run. They eat, therefore they poop, can't get around that. 
9. They would probably not like the fact that there are empty food dishes in each kennel -- my fault really, I could go back into each kennel and collect them right after I feed them, as they scarf it right down, but then they would say no evidence of having food. They will not have food 24/7. They eat it within minutes. 

What I cannot get past is the smell of urine and feces. People should not have dogs in crates so long that they potty in them. And if they do (like if they are sick), they need to clean it immediately. Even with puppies, that smell, the nasty little hole in the wall pet shop smell, should not be in any dwelling. 

We were discussing hoarders, a customer at our tack room and I. I claimed to be a slob, not a hoarder, she was claiming hoarding for herself because it runs in families. I'm a slob, my house is a mess -- getting cleaner each day, but hoarders can live with dead animals under the bed; kitty litter on the dining room table and kitchen counters; and poop all over the floor -- that is a mental illness. Anyone who can walk by a pile of poop and ignore it, needs to drive their dogs to an animal shelter and check themselves into a treatment program.


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## prophecy (May 29, 2008)

selzer said:


> If AC came to my house today:
> 
> 1. They would throw a hissy over Jenna's ear infection that I am trying to control.
> 2. They would lose their lunch over the nine crates in my sun room and a vari-kennel (too small for any of my dogs to fit in) sitting on top of one of those crates.
> ...


They might have a hissy at my place too right now......

* I have yet to change the cat litter today(I change it 3 times a week)
* I have yet to do poop scoop duty out back(yesterday nights's waste needs picked up)
*4 crates without bedding(my one EATS bedding so she can't have any,and the other 3 overheat)
*I'm sure it has an odor in here-we have had rain and the dogs have been tracking mud,and water in.So at the very least it probably smells like wet dog and cat boxes right now.
*no water or food in my dogs crates.(I only crate mine when we go out/bed)
*they'd about B.B.'s ear(he has cauliflower ear on the one side from a healed hematoma,he is 21 years old and they couldn't put him out to fix his ear)


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I'm having a hard time getting past the amount of dogs in crates in the house. With that amount of dogs it seems to me that unless you have some kind of outside runs your dogs are going to spend the majority of their life in a crate.

I have probably a half dozen crates in my house and a couple more on the porch. This is for convenience and very seldom is more then one dog in a crate. 

Double stacking German Shepherds? Even if they are pups that just doesn't seem right to me.

I wish more people would visit their breeders and see how the dogs live.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm sure there are people that would have a cow coming into my house. It's messy (mostly just clothes that don't make it to the hamper). Sasha looks thin by most people's standards. There is only food in her bowl immediately after I put it in there. I do not put a bed in the crate as she will only push it to the very front (I think she gets too hot with a bed). AND since right now is crunch time before finals week whatever moderate cleaning I usually do has fallen by the way side. There are hair bunnies on my floor. I try to clean them as I see them, but I'll admit that has taken 2nd shelf to other things. People will see what they want to see. I'm not saying that this person is right or wrong, but it's not always as straight forward as people think.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

Has there been anymore information on this situation? I have been out of the GSD loop for some time but do know that some times people get overwhelmed or have situations arrive that can cause less than ideal circumstances that yeah, at times, will not pass the muster of an inspection of the local ACO or agency. I do know that Dawn always took her dogs very seriously and felt great responsibility to them so if her practices have slid I hope there was no lasting effect to either the dog or to her. I think also in cases like this we in the dog community need to remember to also lend a hand or offer help if we think it may be needed. We understand each other better than any court system etc ever could and I have found in many situations that some fanciers will have subtle problems that they should be able to ask their fellow fanciers for help with but, they are reluctant to because of the undeniable judgemental and often time cut throat culture that can exist within the fancy  I can remember a number of very serious incidents that have developed simply because a breeder/fancier felt they could not ask for help and needed to hide their changing situations  We as fanciers need to not only look out for the dogs but for each other as well....


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

I do not know the conditions of her kennel. That said, when she stole the dog Drago she bred him and tried to sell a puppy from the litter to one of my friends fibbing fraudulently about the dogs sire and paperwork. At that same time she was also noted by her own email admissions as unable to keep up with the care of the dog in her possession. This friend is not a member here to comment and I am unsure if the links to her statements regarding this issue are allowed to be posted here as it is on a forum.

I think Dawn needs professional help which I do believe was part of her probation after Drago was recovered.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I know the court date is Dec 14...

I don't know her personally, but just from hearing this and that, and her previous Drago incident. She is also president of a schutzhund club here.

I can't get past the crating issue either,,can you imagine STACKING gsd's in crates on top of each other?? I dunno, I look at my crate and can't imagine putting another crate with a 60-85lb dog on top of it..

I have been out of the gsd show scene around here for quite some time..but they are a tight knit bunch and they ALL know what goes on with each other.

Also, living in this state my entire life, I have found that AC here are pretty darn easy going when it comes to complaints and even inspecting kennels.

So with that said, I honestly believe HERE anyhow, AC/cops whatever, had a darn good reason to go in and take those dogs. Court should be interesting, we also have ALOT of animal advocates in this state (and no it ain't PETA),,people that stand up for abuse cases , her area is one that does alot of court appearances from what I've seen in the past.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

13 dogs, well if you count the three whelps, I have 13 dogs. 

I can understand having a skinny dog or a couple of skinny dogs. I can understand a skin condition, an ear infection, some over-long toe nails. Here, where it hasn't stopped raining since 2006, I can understand muddy conditions -- dogs not spotless. 

But ANYONE can keep up after 13 dogs worth of poop. 

Every dog owner is different, has a different capacity for managing dogs. Some have a hard time managing just one, while another can handle more than ten easily. But first and foremost, there is no number of dogs that is the cutoff, for someone to be able to manage them properly. Someone with 15 dogs may do a better job with their dogs than someone with just one. At the same time, volumes as opposed to 1 or 2 will probably adjust the level of care and time each dog gets.

Dogs who are the only pet in the household can be the center of the universe to their owner, play dates, dog parks, training classes, run of the house, three walks per day, top brand dog food/RAW/home cooked, etc, etc, etc. 

Dogs owners with 2 pets can give them pretty much the same as those who own just one.

Three to five dogs present more challenges. Dog classes for the youngsters, staggered for the older dogs, maybe the old crate and rotate is necessary. One walk a day is plenty, especially if you take them out back and let them wear each other out. Starting to look for good affordable food.

More than six dogs, well they are not all going to fit in the bed with you anymore for one thing. Musical crates will be necessary if there are not kennels outside or in the basement or garage. Affordable dog food with good ingredients, bordering on economical dog food. Training and Grooming depends on time and or money to do it. A pet owner with this many dogs is dancing near the hoarding line, if not crossing over. If they are well-spaced though it can certainly be done well by a pet owner. And a dog-person (breeder, person who works with dogs, competitor) should not have any problem providing for the dog's basic needs. All of them will not get walked or worked daily most likely. But they can certainly be fed, watered, cleaned up after and given a proper shelter as required by law; and some training, grooming when necessary, vetting, and contained properly.

13 dogs are unlikely to have the run of the house at all times. Highly unlikely. People are not going to take 13 dogs for regular play dates, dog parks, spa days. But they can be kept properly none the less. 

45 or 50 dogs, I can understand getting behind and being unable to recover, especially if she had some health concerns, or other serious issue. 

The more dogs you have, the more important to ensure every dog area is cleaned every day. Leaving poop around is completely unacceptable. How does someone not manage the basics for 13? This is foreign. Yes they may not ALL go to shutzhund training every weekend, but they can certainly ALL be cleaned up after.

Living in crates is no life for a dog. Needing to be crated a number of hours a day is ok. Needing to be crated for a week or more, while in a foster situation, separated for every dog's safety/health, short term solution -- it can be done with a couple of potty breaks and maybe a walk or a romp in the yard each day, only for short term.

How do you even get a full grown shepherd into an upper crate. If someone has the energy to lift the dog up into the second deck, or to produce a ramp, they have the energy to keep it clean. 

This situation just does not compute for me. The basic care a dog needs by law is not so onerous that one cannot provide it for a dozen. Fifty, Sixty, a hundred -- I can see that. Not thirteen.


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

Proper care of thirteen dogs can be easily managed depending on the life style of the person doing it. I have the same number of dogs. ATM none are puppies. I have kennels. I do not work away over 50 hours a week taking me away from my dogs like the person in the situation. If you get behind and do not catch up then the dogs pay for it. I would not be keeping 13 dogs if they had to live in crates while I was at work a full work week. After work are you sure there is enough time to get sleep AND exercise 13 crated dogs, clean, feed, groom, train, and care for yourself and her children without anyone or the home suffering? The question was not if someone could care for those numbers and well in those conditions. It is a matter of them not being done. Unless this woman's life changed and she found a money supply for free since she tried to sell my friend the puppy then I believe these dogs were not getting sufficient care. Dawn admitted to my friend back then she was struggling terribly.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Depending on the dog, I may not have water or bedding in crates, either. I've had fosters who would _eat_ any bedding and some who would manage to turn over the water dish/bucket no matter how I tried to secure it so it was either no water in the crate or a wet dog.


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

Empty water bowls happen even though it is not preferable. Feces and urine are not good in the crates and can also occasionally exist. Combine all of these factors and you come up with dogs crated in long time periods with improper care when it is in multiple dogs crate as a normal condition they are living in.


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

This mornings outcome for her dog care and really it is difficult getting convictions for mis care of dogs so this really does speak volumes.


Criminal / Motor Vehicle Dockets - Case Detail


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