# breeding black an tan with a white???



## Laneg

How unfavorable would the pups be?


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## misslesleedavis1

I googled that, alot of those panda types popped up. Who knows,


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## Castlemaid

What do you mean by unfavorable?


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## Liesje

White is a masking gene, not a true color, so it would depend on what color the white dog is beneath the white and also the colors of the dogs' parents.


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## Jax08

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I googled that, alot of those panda types popped up. Who knows,


Breeding a b/t to a white does not create a Panda. Panda's are a genetic mutation.

Read what Lies said above on the white masking gene.


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## misslesleedavis1

Jax08 said:


> Breeding a b/t to a white does not create a Panda. Panda's are a genetic mutation.
> 
> Read what Lies said above on the white masking gene.


lol, i did not research it, i just plugged it into google images 

Should have come with a disclaimer,

Do not take my googling images seriously


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## SuperG

Laneg said:


> How unfavorable would the pups be?



What is your goal in this particular breeding ??


SuperG


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## Laneg

We have a black and tan female and we were approached by the owners of a white shepherd about mating. I did a little research about the whites but was wondering about the coloring of the black an tan, would it just dull the black out? Make more of a sable? Would the mating make these dogs less wanted because of color issues?


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## my boy diesel

what would make them less wanted
is lack of health testing 
and lack of titles
not their colors
unless you are just breeding
because she has a uterus and he has testicles
then you could sell them into pet homes 
fairly easily i guess


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## hunterisgreat

Laneg said:


> We have a black and tan female and we were approached by the owners of a white shepherd about mating. I did a little research about the whites but was wondering about the coloring of the black an tan, would it just dull the black out? Make more of a sable? Would the mating make these dogs less wanted because of color issues?


A homozygous dog of normal color paired with a white GSD always produces full colored puppies because the e allele is recessive.

Your dog is black and tan. It will produce all black and tan puppies. Sable is not possible. The puppies will be black and tan, or the dam's recessive allele if she is not homozygous. SO, possible outcomes not knowing her recessive allele are black and tan most likely, possibility of bicolor, black, and white... not positive about black as an a (black gene) + e (white gene) combo... not sure which would express


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## Castlemaid

To add to the above, the white color is from a recessive masking gene. Both parents have to carry the recessive masking gene to produce a white. You know the white dog carries it, because he needs two copies of the gene to produce the white. This is in addition to the 'normal' color gene he is carrying, but is being masked by the white masking gene. So he could pass on one copy of the underneath color that is being masked, and one copy of the white masking gene.

If the female is carrying, but not expressing, a white masking gene, it is possible that some pups may end up white, if they inherit one white masking gene from each parent. Check your dog's pedigree to see if she has any whites in her background. If yes, it is possible that she carries white.

But chances are you will get colored puppies, because the pups will inherit the black-and-tan from the mom, and whatever color gene the male is carrying, but is being hidden by the white. So could be sable, which is dominant (but hidden by the white masking gene), or could be black and tan. 

It seems to me, just my opinion from seeing many pictures of GSDs on this forum and other forums, that whites do produce pretty faded color pups. Not sure if it has anything to do with the white masking gene, or if it has more to do with the fact that over several generations of breeding white dogs, the breeders cannot select for rich underneath colors and it just happens to fade out with each successive breeding. 

So no real way of knowing what you will end up with colour-wise. 

And as mentioned above, it is not the colour of the pups that will make them un-favorable, but the fact that two dogs of unknown origin with no health testing, and not temperament testing in the form of titles where mated just because they could. That is not responsible breeding, and I don't think your should risk your female's health and welfare for something so random. 

You may also end up with waaaaayyyy more puppies than you can find good homes for. 10 to 12 pups in a litter is not unheard of for GSDs.


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