# what age is prong collar appropriate



## ANGELJJM

Roxy will be 6 months novemeber 20th. at what age is it appropriate to start using the prong collar?


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## MaggieRoseLee

I usually start around 6 months cause that's when they really do get too strong and pulling on the regular collar can hurt their necks.

I use the small prongs though, and even as they grow I just add more of the small prongs. Much more control and easier to get on and off then the heavier larger prongs.

This compares the links on a table, I prefer the smaller ones (top on both photos) even on my 'big dogs'.









Here's both on Bretta:


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## Lucy Dog

Yeah six months is the age when i first started the prong on lucy. I don't know where i read it (probably here), but i waited until she hit 6 months to start with the prong.


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: ANGELJJMRoxy will be 6 months novemeber 20th. at what age is it appropriate to start using the prong collar?


It's only appropriate when it's NECESSARY.


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## doggiedad

how do you know you're going to need
a prong collar? i've never used a prong collar
on any of my dogs. i guess some dogs need them.
gadgetry doesn't replace proper training.


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## SunCzarina

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLeeI usually start around 6 months cause that's when they really do get too strong and pulling on the regular collar can hurt their necks.


I agree with this. When Otto was 5 months, he was so strong already that he'd gag himself trying to pull on his flat collar. I tried a martingale on him, he gagged on it. Then I bought him a small link prong collar with rubber tips.

He can walk nicely now but when he sees something he wants, like to get back in the car at the park, he'll pull even with the prong collar on.


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## ANGELJJM

Well i certainly wouldn't use it unless it was necessary. This my third GSD. My first one, Moose, it was necessary for him for a lilltle while and only when I took him out somewhere where there were other dogs and alot of action, kids football games, etc. He was very very strong and very excitable. Second one, Belle, never needed it at all! This is my third, Roxy, and I couldn't remember how old Moose was when I first started using it with him. She may not need it she cathes on very quickly but I am having a real hard time with leash training. She pulls so hard she's going to choke her self to death. I just constantly redirect her over and over. I feel like I am walking in circles. But I haven't given up yet!


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## HeidiW

I just got a head halti and it is helping, I have only had the chance to use it one time on Both Bella and Bo. They both pull but Bo is very reactive and when he has it on it is like he knows he can't be. I have never used a prong so I don't about them.


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## Chicagocanine

I've used either a no-pull harness such as Sens-ation Harness or a Halti for pulling. I've found both to work very well and never had a need to use a prong since I found those two training tools.

I did use a prong for my terrier several years ago, but I found it worked better to train him with a regular collar and what I call "penalty yards" instead.


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## selzer

It should not be necessary. A friend of mine does no training with the dogs until they are ten months, and then he starts with a prong collar and has them trained in a week. He has mostly working line dogs, but one or two German showline dogs. Had I not walked back with him to his kennels and met every one of his dogs, I would have thought it unlikely, but his dogs are nice and well trained, and this method works for him. 

Personally, my route takes me longer. I work through those ten months, usually starting when the pup is 10 to 12 weeks old. Usually by six months or eight months they are ready for CGC and RN, and it just depends on when the close trials are held. I do not want to be the kind of leader that pinches or prongs or shocks or jerks or whips my dogs to get them to do what I want. While I will start with treats, I do not want to always have a treat bag on me, or a can of pennies for a correction, or a clicker. Most of the time, my dogs work for praise only. By the time my dogs are between 12 to 24 months old, they are usually very easy to manage on lead and some heel good off-lead. I think that most people with prongs or e-collars need them for the same period or even longer. If people would just hold out, with consistancy, their dogs will do what they want without negative reinforcement like a prong collar.


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## doggiedad

do you start teaching your dogs how
to walk on a leash when their pups? i've never had a dog
that didn't learn to walk on or off a leash.



> Originally Posted By: ANGELJJMWell i certainly wouldn't use it unless it was necessary. This my third GSD. My first one, Moose, it was necessary for him for a lilltle while and only when I took him out somewhere where there were other dogs and alot of action, kids football games, etc. He was very very strong and very excitable. Second one, Belle, never needed it at all! This is my third, Roxy, and I couldn't remember how old Moose was when I first started using it with him. She may not need it she cathes on very quickly but I am having a real hard time with leash training. She pulls so hard she's going to choke her self to death. I just constantly redirect her over and over. I feel like I am walking in circles. But I haven't given up yet!


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## Foster Mon

I would image that you have been working on leash walking all this time and getting good eye contact. Positive re-enforment and a great relationship should not need a prong as a training aid. Gentle Leaders, Easy Walk harness, martingale or buckle collars should be the norm. I foster shepherds that have no walking manners and never use a prong. Patience and practice and setting the dog up to succeed and not fail works better. Watch Victoria Stillwell on It's me or the dog....... she never uses prongs.


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## windwalker718

I go with Lauri's answer... how do you know you'll need to ever use one? 

I've taught obedience classes for like 20 years, and have recommended their use only twice due to the handler waiting til their dogs were fully adult to begin teaching leash work. One was a 5' girl who may have been 100lbs soaking wet handling a rather large and energetic Great Dane... the other was a woman with a rather strong Labrador (both in temperament and body strength) I used one on an adult bitch I purchased for 3 weeks in conjunction with a normal slip collar... then dropped the prong.

If you've taught your pup to "walk nice" or heel without a prong you probably won't need one. I found with my protection dog, and my sled dogs that a change of collar made all the difference. When Shilo had on his leather collar he looked for the helper, when he had on his harness he pulled... on a slip he walked like a gentleman. Dogs are pretty smart as long as you can remember which collar is which.


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## 3K9Mom

Agree that there are many other training options that you can (should?) explore... starting with a trainer that believes in positive training. 

Others have mentioned harnesses and head halters (which have their benefits and drawbacks), so I'll just mention this, since it's rarely mentioned here: the Good Dog collar :









http://www.amazon.com/StarMark-TCLC-Larg...58361479&sr=8-1

This collar, which is essentially a plastic prong collar (it reminds me of Legos, the way it fits together), disperses pressure around the dog's neck, much like a prong collar. This is vital because then we don't have to worry about trachea (windpipe) damage, which is one of the major reasons that we don't let puppies/dog pull on flat collars. 

It obviously doesn't have nearly the punitive zing of a metal prong collar. The nice thing, though, is that it doesn't have as much heft; so it's easier to transition away from the Good Dog collar back to a nylon collar (whether a martingale or flat collar). 

BUT ... if you do decide to use a metal prong, there are a couple of things to consider: 

It's been my experience that "puppy" size (the small size) prongs have a lot more "bite" to them than larger prongs. So instead of starting with a collar that is less harsh (then escalating only if we NEED to), starting with smaller prongs means that you're starting with the volume on "high," so to speak. My trainers (yes, a few of them) completely agree with this, and will not let owners use anything but a medium or larger prong collar on puppies. IMO, large prongs are actually better than medium. Are they too big to fit your pup correctly? Then your pup is too small/young for a prong.

Second, mostly, when I see people using prong collars, I see people MIS-using them (mostly, the dog just pulls through it). Find yourself a *reputable* trainer and learn how to use one correctly. The correction should be a very quick pop. If the dog isn't responding to the correction after a couple tries, then you're not training the *Heeling* correctly. You need to be trained how to use a prong, but you also need to be trained how to teach your dog to walk in the Heel (more or less) position. (These aren't the same thing.) Find another trainer. I constantly see dogs yanked all over the place because the handler has no idea how to use a prong collar appropriately. 

And I've seen dogs with prongs at the end of Flexi leashes.









I'm not anti-prong. But I think they're used a lot in situations where trainers don't know how to actually teach a heel unless the dog is either a passive follower or the wearing hardware; also in situations where where owners aren't willing to stand in front of their home for an hour because they can't go farther on the walk. (Often, learning to walk in a heel means you walk back and forth in front of your house for an hour, working on loose-leash walking, using the techniques you've been taught by your trainer).

I used a prong on one of my dogs at the suggestion of someone I thought was a reputable trainer. It took me a long time to get rid of that darn thing... the only way I could was to switch him to a fur saver because he was used to a heavy metal collar, but at least we got rid of it after a LOT of effort and time. 


Finally a couple small tips -- don't let your dog greet anyone (especially other dogs) while on leash while you're trying to teach him not to pull. If he's used to being able to greet dogs, he will get used to pulling you over to meet dogs. (How is he to know what dog he can meet and which he can't?) Also, give him good exercise -- fetch, chase or other active play -- BEFORE you take him for walks. This way, he won't have all that crazy puppy energy to burn at the same time you're trying to rein him in. He'll be more attentive to you and he'll be able to cruise along at a more reasonable rate. Finally, don't walk toward the park or any place he considers Heaven on Earth while you're in the initial stages of training heeling. When you learned to drive the first time, your instructor didn't take you on the freeway. You started off on easy routes. Do the same for your pup -- give him nice boring routes so that he can learn the ropes of what you want. (I either put a no-pull harness on my dogs to walk them to the park, or we stop there after driving around running errands). 

A prong collar can be useful for some dogs. But it's a band aid. Most dogs never get out of them. My preference is that I don't use one in the first place. But I would start with equipment that is less punitive, especially for a puppy, then move up only if I needed to. (That's why I think the Good Dog collar is handy. It reduces stress on the trachea without inflicting much more than a mild pinch). 

Like most things with your pup, there is no single right or wrong answer. Just look at your options and see what's best for you.


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