# Puppy biting continuing into month 4



## Zog (May 20, 2021)

Hi All,

First off its another "my puppy is biting still" post! I have a black GSD puppy entering 17th week. It's clear when we got him that he hits all of the following -


Very excited guy (you get a toy in front of him or food and he is locked)
Noticed that his excitement has really dipped when we get outside in open areas to practice training

Like all GSDs an extremely fast learner
He recently is able to do sit on command when we go for walks and stay as people walk by w/o treats
Can easily do sit, down, paw, spin, walk thru legs, leave it, and heel at home w/o distractions (Has no idea what 'drop it' is... its been tough)


Fearless for the most part (wants to check out anything new but when it comes to larger dogs does get a little scared)
Somewhat leash reactive but doing pretty well as we continue to work
His demeanor is really really high energy and when he's tired he definitely needs all the help to calm down (i.e., dim all the lights and stay quiet or he'll jump right back up)
When we first brought him home (at 9wks) it was very apparent that he liked to use his mouth to learn about new things (fingers and all). The breeder even provided that she only did palm feeding with him since he'd always include her fingers when going for the food. He was very small for his litter and apparently was generally from what I could conclude, pushed around by his other siblings.

In the beginning we tried to ignore his biting behavior and did unfortunately pick him up every time he went and bit something he wasn't supposed to. (Obviously now that was a bad idea) because he enjoys being cared for. This was most likely (wk 9 to wk 11)

After, I looked up on youtube that using the pick up under his rib cage and slightly grab his collar or grab his excess skin and sort of pin him method (they say the mother would do this in rare cases when they wont chill out) can be used to help correct him when he was getting really bitey. I would do this here and there in extreme cases for the next 2 weeks (Wk 11 to Wk 13). That was another bad idea. My partner noted and I did too that he would actually get more angry or reactive after. (i.e., go right back to biting, biting harder, or rolling up his lips to indicate to bring it on).

We stopped that and tried to really start working on reinforcing when he was making good decisions (voice our happiness like "good boy!", food, and toys). But he still continued to bite (Wk 13 to Wk 14)

Now, I recently just invoked a new method. The 'time out method' where I hold him the way anyone would pick up their puppy but a little tighter and he actually showed real improvement. He would really settle down after I put him down his first move after leaving timeout would not be to bite. Wk 15-Wk16 going on Wk17.

Unfortunately, he still shows a reactive bite to petting, when he gets restless (still look to bite our hands or legs first thing out of the crate in the morning), and with new people. I can tell the bite is not aggressive but reactive.

And double unfortunate is I know its me that's screwing up. When he gets his work in (runs runs runs) and meets new people generally does not have a problem (still nippy here and there but very soft) / When we take him to doggy daycare.... all the people love him (his report cards are always glowing).

Any thoughts on what I'm not including that may help? I know for a fact I'm already not challenging him enough to help him learn but my work is mostly meetings so I get only ~1 collectively hr to focus on both getting him exercise and training before it gets too dark to work on things outside.

Would late night training at a field help? I know a place that keeps the lights on. Or at this point should I seek out a professional to help fix our relationship?

Thanks,
Z


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Ignoring, picking him up, voicing happiness(?). 

Stop flip flopping between things that don't show him the undesirable behavior and learn how to correct your teddy bear sized puppy.

Since you know this is "another" puppy biting post, there's lots of information on them, some of it even good


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Your pup won't learn house manners by training in a field somewhere.Stopping the biting is achieved by making it uncomfortable for him to do so.Two things that are uncomfortable are folding his lips carefully in so he bites himself,and making a fist and pressing gently into his throat until he backs away.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Yeah, time to correct him.
Also, have a toy or tug in your hand for when he gets out of the crate. Praise for him for biting that.
And if petting sets him off, stop it! You have plenty of time for petting when he gets older.
Hans was like that. Now he will take all the petting you care to give, but when he was young it set him off and he was like a danged electric stapler.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

1 hour a day is not enough. When I have a busy day, I get up at 4 or 5 and get the dogs out for an hour of hard play/adventure/training, then get them out when I get home.

If you have good recall, or a long line, you can put a light on his collar or harness for night time adventures.

Doggie day care is probably making things worse. Lots of fun wrestling and mouthing all day. He's continually learning that playing with his mouth is rewarding.

A few effective corrections along with satisfying his exercise and stimulation needs should quickly curb the behavior.


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## Mike_E38654 (Oct 15, 2020)

My ASL was that way. I worked with her until she learned not to bite hard and she eventually stopped biting altogether. Like with anyone else it takes two to form a relationship, work out your differences to your mutual satisfaction. With a dog- no with out reason doesn't really mean no, it means maybe.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

And, yea, crazy behavior equals too little hard exercise.


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## Zog (May 20, 2021)

David Winners said:


> 1 hour a day is not enough. When I have a busy day, I get up at 4 or 5 and get the dogs out for an hour of hard play/adventure/training, then get them out when I get home.
> 
> If you have good recall, or a long line, you can put a light on his collar or harness for night time adventures.
> 
> ...


He does wake us at 6am but havent tried working him then but thats a great suggestion. I should go out with a long line to tire him out before leading into a training session prior to doing training. His recall has come along way but man... one of the hardest things to get down when outside. I'm still at 5 to 10 ft with like a 60% success rate.


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## Zog (May 20, 2021)

Sunflowers said:


> Yeah, time to correct him.
> Also, have a toy or tug in your hand for when he gets out of the crate. Praise for him for biting that.
> And if petting sets him off, stop it! You have plenty of time for petting when he gets older.
> Hans was like that. Now he will take all the petting you care to give, but when he was young it set him off and he was like a danged electric stapler.


Never considered the toy, good idea!!! And yes i do want to hug him when i let him out..... but yeah you're right petting does get him going.... ugh lol


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Zog said:


> He does wake us at 6am but havent tried working him then but thats a great suggestion. I should go out with a long line to tire him out before leading into a training session prior to doing training. His recall has come along way but man... one of the hardest things to get down when outside. I'm still at 5 to 10 ft with like a 60% success rate.


How are you training recall? If you are allowing him to choose when to recall you will never have a solid recall.


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## Zog (May 20, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Ignoring, picking him up, voicing happiness(?).
> 
> Stop flip flopping between things that don't show him the undesirable behavior and learn how to correct your teddy bear sized puppy.
> 
> Since you know this is "another" puppy biting post, there's lots of information on them, some of it even good


ugh yeah you're right. I was really looking for immediate success when it comes to this. I've seen from other posts that its going to be a gradual learning curve. I guess it's nervousness on my part to have him ready so i can let me nieces and nephews pet/play with him.


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## Zog (May 20, 2021)

David Winners said:


> How are you training recall? If you are allowing him to choose when to recall you will never have a solid recall.


In the beginning it was through kibble in the house. We'd be in a hallway and hold him before calling his name. He listens to his name every time we say it in the house now. But have moved away from the actual hallway training and just praise him when we call him in the house. As for outside, its pretty much the same thing just a different environment. I've been taking his favorite toy/treats and bringing it outside with my partner. i would hold him and she'd call him to which i would let him go and she'd get him and then sit him up for me to call him back. I got a little too confident with that so we moved on to not holding him to which he just frolics away at the first noise outside. Thoughts?


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Honest communication. Don't let your dog do anything that makes you not like him. Tell him you don't like it. He doesn't need to be distracted, he needs honest communication!


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## 44eyes (May 17, 2021)

Zog said:


> In the beginning it was through kibble in the house. We'd be in a hallway and hold him before calling his name. He listens to his name every time we say it in the house now. But have moved away from the actual hallway training and just praise him when we call him in the house. As for outside, its pretty much the same thing just a different environment. I've been taking his favorite toy/treats and bringing it outside with my partner. i would hold him and she'd call him to which i would let him go and she'd get him and then sit him up for me to call him back. I got a little too confident with that so we moved on to not holding him to which he just frolics away at the first noise outside. Thoughts?


I'm curious why you're holding him before the recall? Practice throughout the house without holding, you and your partner taking turns calling him and giving very high value treats when he comes. He not only works on recall but actually finding you when you call. Outside will still have more distractions but start off making recall inside more challenging first. 

As far as the OP I think 4mo is still a bit normal for biting issues... he'll be going into teething soon if not already so the biting will then be out of necessity. Always have something else on hand he can chew instead of you, even better if its frozen. Not treats, but things he'll be working on for a while. If he bites, distance yourself and ignore him until he assumes a neutral position (sit/down) before interacting again. We've started teaching "belly" for rubs, it's harder to bite down there and I think it feels better too which is distracting for him. Our pup does the same thing where any type of movement or fighting back on our part is seen as playing so these are just what I've learned so far that works. 

I don't know how your homespace is but we're in an apartment for the next month and things that help wear our pup out indoors are flirt poles, IQ toys, ice cubes, and large bones. To work on drop it we exchange what he has with an equally-valuable toy. Honestly working on heel indoors just going up and down the hallway will wear him out too.


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## Zog (May 20, 2021)

44eyes said:


> I'm curious why you're holding him before the recall? Practice throughout the house without holding, you and your partner taking turns calling him and giving very high value treats when he comes. He not only works on recall but actually finding you when you call. Outside will still have more distractions but start off making recall inside more challenging first.
> 
> As far as the OP I think 4mo is still a bit normal for biting issues... he'll be going into teething soon if not already so the biting will then be out of necessity. Always have something else on hand he can chew instead of you, even better if its frozen. Not treats, but things he'll be working on for a while. If he bites, distance yourself and ignore him until he assumes a neutral position (sit/down) before interacting again. We've started teaching "belly" for rubs, it's harder to bite down there and I think it feels better too which is distracting for him. Our pup does the same thing where any type of movement or fighting back on our part is seen as playing so these are just what I've learned so far that works.
> 
> I don't know how your homespace is but we're in an apartment for the next month and things that help wear our pup out indoors are flirt poles, IQ toys, ice cubes, and large bones. To work on drop it we exchange what he has with an equally-valuable toy. Honestly working on heel indoors just going up and down the hallway will wear him out too.


It was at first to make sure he keeps his focus on us when we say his name and from what I think has helped really associate us with his name. We've started to veer away from it in the outdoor recall training so he makes his own decision but like I mentioned has been a little shaky at best when we say it outside.

Also, were definitely behind on using frozen goods to help with his biting. I think we definitely have to get on that! But the toys or food on hand is something I always think of doing but never actually follow thru. I'm going to give it a go.


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## Zog (May 20, 2021)

Hi Everyone, 

Quick update on the puppy! My partner and I upped the amount of play and used the crating method when he got a bit wound up/bitey. He's now 5 months old and doing awesome!!!! The biting is down so much and even when it starts he knows how to settle/listen to his commands. Thank you all for the suggestions and tips - they helped a ton over the past month. Here is a pic of the good boy


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## herojig (Apr 3, 2013)

Zog said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Quick update on the puppy! My partner and I upped the amount of play and used the crating method when he got a bit wound up/bitey. He's now 5 months old and doing awesome!!!! The biting is down so much and even when it starts he knows how to settle/listen to his commands. Thank you all for the suggestions and tips - they helped a ton over the past month. Here is a pic of the good boy
> View attachment 575287


aww always nice seeing a GSD being a good boy


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Zog said:


> In the beginning it was through kibble in the house. We'd be in a hallway and hold him before calling his name. He listens to his name every time we say it in the house now. But have moved away from the actual hallway training and just praise him when we call him in the house. As for outside, its pretty much the same thing just a different environment. I've been taking his favorite toy/treats and bringing it outside with my partner. i would hold him and she'd call him to which i would let him go and she'd get him and then sit him up for me to call him back. I got a little too confident with that so we moved on to not holding him to which he just frolics away at the first noise outside. Thoughts?


Sorry I missed this.

Restrained recalls are helpful, but after the dog is driving towards you, you need to generalize that behavior to other situations.

I use a combination of fetch and 100% reward schedule recall on a long line until the dog is very solid. I then add e-collar at 5-7 months, depending on the dog.


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

_*"I would do this here and there in extreme cases for the next 2 weeks (Wk 11 to Wk 13). *__*That was another bad idea. My partner noted and I did too that he would actually get more angry or reactive after. "*_

That's the mistake. "Only in extreme cases". It resolves better if you don't deviate. That only sends mixed signals to a dog.

Once I figured out what worked for my pup, it took less than two days and only a handful of instances. She had been relentless and dove for the face a lot, with jaws popping. Ya just grab a bit of hide at the SIDE of the neck (not harsh but firmly) immediately when they bite. Give them whatever verbal command you want. That's what Dams do with pups in their litters. That's what pups respond to. This is probably one of the most asked questions here. In the meantime, keep some band-aids handy. : ))


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