# Animal Hoarder Tasers State Trooper



## pamela berger (Jun 19, 2008)

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=delmarvanow&sParam=31829989.story


Boy, you've got to be pretty desperate, crazy or both to taser a state trooper!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

...in the face!

http://www.sunjournal.com/node/340444/


> Quote:FARMINGTON — Police say a 65-year-old New Sharon woman assaulted a state trooper with a 975,000-volt stun gun during an investigation into possible animal hoarding at her house on Lane Road.
> 
> Carol Murphy pleaded not guilty in Franklin County Superior Court on Thursday to assault on an officer, criminal threatening, refusing to submit to arrest and criminal use of an electronic weapon. She was being held at the Franklin County jail on $10,000 cash bail or $100,000 worth of real estate.
> 
> ...


Follow the link to her picture. She goes well with her saggy roofed garage.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

And people wonder why its so important to do home visits, to make sure we ask questions and find out where these dogs on the boards are going....


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

lmao


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

wow...

i'm glad the trooper is ok and the animals will be taken away


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## GSD4LIFE21 (Mar 8, 2007)

wow I grew up 20 minutes from there...what a wack..


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Angel Rlmao


975,000 volts to the face. funny?


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Im not even going to answer that.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Hoping she gets some mental health support and intervention.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

HAHAHA 
Brightelf - Just noticed....
aka "The Doofinator"


LMAO! Love it


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfHoping she gets some mental health support and intervention.


agreed, she's already proven she will keep doing this and what happens the next time the cops come to her house....


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Angel RIm not even going to answer that.


Well you should its not funny that a STATE TROOPER
got tasered in the face.

think before you say stuff because you NEVER know who you may offend or if they know someone on here or any site you may go to


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

ok!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

actually, we both laughed in that "OMG you can't be serious" way. so, yes it's funny in an OMG that's just unreal kind of way. the woman is obviously off her rocker. I know many areas where she would be lucky that she wasn't shot. Though, I do think that any cop approaching her with a warrant again will keep a better eye on her


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Dainerraactually, we both laughed in that "OMG you can't be serious" way. so, yes it's funny in an OMG that's just unreal kind of way. the woman is obviously off her rocker. I know many areas where she would be lucky that she wasn't shot. Though, I do think that any cop approaching her with a warrant again will keep a better eye on her



Thats pretty much what I was doing.
But I guess I should elaborate on what I am laughing at.
I didnt think some getting tased was funny. I just thought LMAO that someone would actually do something crazy like that.
But yeah sorry if you all took it the wrong way....I dont want to fight with you about it


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Angel RHAHAHA
> Brightelf - Just noticed....
> aka "The Doofinator"
> 
> ...


Would you like to clarify this one also?


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Thats her dogs name....

Grimm van den Heuvel, aka "The Doofinator"
My strong-minded, very loving boy 



MY God, so quick to start a fight.....


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Stop yelling already.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

and i thought everyone was laughing at....



> Quote: She goes well with her saggy roofed garage


cause I sure did


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## jfisher (Dec 29, 2005)

I'm not quick to laugh at a situation like this either. Not long ago in Pittsburgh, my home town, two policemen were called to a home on a domestic disturbance call. It was a woman and her grown son. He shot and killed both officers, and then killed a third who came as backup. Talon and I went to the funerals. 

If that woman had no problem tazering an officer in the face, it makes me wonder if she would with a more deadly weapon, and even tazers have killed a few people...

-Jackie


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaStop yelling already.


Who me?


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: crabby
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaStop yelling already.
> ...


Nope, the cap lock queen edited her post after I posted that.

My work is done. No need to call on my friend Mr Hat


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Nevermind that, it's the wrong thread. Someone should ban distracting children from the computer area.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaNevermind that, it's the wrong thread. Someone should ban distracting children from the computer area.



See? Whats up with that?
Very hateful.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Angel R
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaNevermind that, it's the wrong thread. Someone should ban distracting children from the computer area.
> ...


Okay, this took some thought as to how not to be rude to you, girlie.

I meant to post something on the balloon boy thread and put it here by accident becuase my 6 year old son was running in the room.

It has nothing to do with you. 

I could come up with quite a few things that have something to do with you. 

I don't think you really don't want that if you are legitimately here to learn about dogs and make friends. So go away and play nice.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Yeah
dont worry Im goin


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaFollow the link to her picture. She goes well with her saggy roofed garage.


Gosh I'll make sure I never post a picture of my face here


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfHoping she gets some mental health support and intervention.











Patti, I love the fact that I can always count on you to be empathetic.

Hording is a mental health disorder and this woman is obviously quite sick. The fact that she used a tazer on a State Trooper is also a sign of that.

I'm very glad the Trooper is ok.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

Hey all - 

There could very possibly be more to this story than what is seen in the news reports (as is the case in most stories). This woman appears to be fairly intelligent and writes an interesting blog.

http://www.californiachronicle.com/authors/view/1941

Puts a different spin on things. I did notice that PeTA was the complaining party and that always makes me wonder what is really going on - I have very little faith in their honesty or ethics.

At one time I had horses, dogs, cats, rabbits, sheep and a crow. When the rabbits had babies there could easily be 30 animals on the property. I wasn't a hoarder - it was just the way I lived. Having 40 animals doesn't make a person a hoarder per se .. so again, I would search out the entire story before you (generic you) completely condemn this woman.

And her looks have NOTHING to do with her barn or animals.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Angel RYeah
> dont worry Im goin


Not to far I hope, us lowly uncrowned memebers need to stick together. Don't worry its easy to let some ppl keep you on edge so when someone is finally being nice its hard to recognize it. We are here to learn about GSD's and show off our fur babies, if ppl want to cause drama thats their initiative, my theory, ignore them, eventually they will find someone else to pick on


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Sagelfnand i thought everyone was laughing at....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol I thought the same thing, thats what I was laughing at!


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

I soo agree-if you have issues that are NOT dog related Dr Phil has a website!!this IS a board that should be dog related not human


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: crabby
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Angel RHAHAHA
> ...


Crabby.........


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

she best not be making fun of Patti that is all I can say

doubleminttwin you don't make stupid comments, make fun of people and open your mouth with ignorant comments 
you are ok in my book


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I didn't take it as making fun of Patti. I took it as she got a kick out of Grimm being called "The Doofinator"


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Yeah, thats what I ment. Im not maing fun of anyone.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08I didn't take it as making fun of Patti. I took it as she got a kick out of Grimm being called "The Doofinator"


Me too


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Very interesting blog she writes though. It does not sound like some out of her mind hoarder. 

If it did go down as she said in When vultures Rule -- One. It does explain why she was willing to taser the guy to keep him away. I have never been in a position where the state misused their power and stole my animals. Had I been, I am not sure how I would defend them the next time. 

It sounds like the first incident, they wanted to maintain their constitutional rights so the husband was handcuffed and put in a cruiser. But she allowed the inspection, was manhandled by a animal control officer or humane society agent, and pressured to give information on other breeders. They left without citing them, but then weeks later, without due process, they came killed one of her horses and took all the animals from her place. 

That seemed to have begun this saga. If this was my experience with the law and with these organizations, I do not know what my response would be when they came knocking again. 

There seems to be a lot of space between this event and the orignial event and I do not have time to read it all. If she was tried and convicted.... But then, if they took the animals without due process, she would not be able to provide evidence that the animals were well cared for. 

I have heard of stuff like this happening. All of my critters are my friends, my babies so to speak. If someone were to come to your door and rip your children away from you, what do you do? I love my animals in a similar manner that people with children love them. It is not the same, but it is the same. It is an emotionally charged situation. 

We all want to believe this cannot happen in Amercia. When we see Animal cops, some people sign the animals right over. Others hesitate, but eventually sign them over. I cannot imagine signing my animals over. It is kind of like a witch hunt. They will tie you up and throw you into the river, if you sink and drown, well shucks you were not a witch. If you do not, then they pull you out an burn you. Interesting. So if you do not sign them over, they threaten and bambard you, and charge you with animal cruelty, etc, and try to get court orders to sieze the animals or they just sieze the animals. If you do sign them over, then you are guilty. Lots of people fear the legal system, police, courts, lawyers. They know they will lose their jobs, and could not afford to pay a lawyer to protect them. Most have heard horror stories about public defenders. I wonder if more people than should are losing their animals to PETA and such organizations.


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## jfisher (Dec 29, 2005)

> Quote:there could easily be 30 animals on the property. I wasn't a hoarder - it was just the way I lived. Having 40 animals doesn't make a person a hoarder per se ..


Same with us...We have countless animals if we include the snakes we breed. That certainly does not make us hoarders. We take very good care of them and model the enclosures based on what their needs are in the wild.

It's not a question of numbers...It's how the animals are obtained and provided for without being overwhelmed. It's really frustrating too because judges don't like to convict these people for what they believe is a mental illness, and prohibited or not, the hoarders go right back to where they left off and do it all over again now affecting twice the number of animals. There's just not enough manpower to properly supervise them. *sigh* I give soooooo much credit to the rescue people because I know myself well enough to know that I wouldn't be able to control myself. That is the ONE thing I get scary angry about, anyone who abuses creatures smaller and/or weaker than them. The pure anger just takes over and I seriously cannot control it.









-Jackie


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## piercesdesigns (Oct 14, 2009)

You can read about her 2004,2005, 2007 seizure,conviction,appeal and confirmation here:

http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/3356/ME/US/

The case she was writing about in her diatribe was in 1994. she was convicted again in 2004. She was forbidden from ever owning an animal. 

I highly doubt animal control is just harassing her.

I am intimately familiar with hoarders. They are often well spoken and intelligent people. They have a mental illness that prevents them from seeing the overwhelming nature of the conditions and also prevents them from seeing the terrible condition of the animals.

When I went in to a hoarders home during a seizure and we found 30 dogs starving, and one in the basement dead, with others attempting to eat from him, we took pictures. We showed the pictures to the woman and asked her through her protests of LOVE! how could she go from love to THIS. She denied that there was anything wrong with the dog. She was saving all of them.

Normal people capable of caring for a reasonable number of animals just cannot comprehend how bad it can get. It is beyond our comprehension.


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## jfisher (Dec 29, 2005)

> Quote: We showed the pictures to the woman and asked her through her protests of LOVE! how could she go from love to THIS. She denied that there was anything wrong with the dog.


Not antagonizing, just curious. What do you think the response would be if they were physically shown the dead animals? They can't really deny that they're dead?

-Jackie


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## piercesdesigns (Oct 14, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Ghostwolf
> 
> 
> > Quote: We showed the pictures to the woman and asked her through her protests of LOVE! how could she go from love to THIS. She denied that there was anything wrong with the dog.
> ...


My guess is she would have said she was saving it but it died anyway. It's odd, because on one hand, you think "She didn't know what she was doing was wrong (because of the mental illness), but at the same time, she put towels along the bottom of the doors, in the vents and over the windows of the garage where she was keeping 15 shelties stacked in rabbit sized hutches so no one could hear them bark. So that implies intent or knowledge of wrongdoing.

When the seizure happened she downed a bottle of pills (turned out to be vitamins) faked a heart attack, ambulances called the whole nine yards. Then she and her lawyer faced us in court and the lawyers whole case was built on "Who decides what's acceptable care? They boil lobsters alive and no one complains about that." (I left the courtroom to go scream in the bathroom at that one.)

I guess my point is, to the hoarder, they are good and doing the right thing and those coming in are terrible abusers who are stealing their animals. All too common in these cases.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: crabby
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Angel Rlmao
> ...


Well with the constant barrage of stories about police tasering seemingly anyone that looks at them sideways, I can see where a story of a cop getting it would make some chuckle.

Sounds like a hand held stun gun though, not a taser.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

I mean...its not funny...... but I can count like 6 times where people have died because of a tazer.
Cops taze kids, old women and people who dont deserve it.
So um.
They shouldnt use those guns like a toy anymore.....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Very true.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: selzerIf it did go down as she said in When vultures Rule -- One. It does explain why she was willing to taser the guy to keep him away. I have never been in a position where the state misused their power and stole my animals. Had I been, I am not sure how I would defend them the next time.


Funny that there was only ONE trooper and he was there only because he was following up on an arrest warrant that was issued for unpaid fines and fees in connection with the animal cruelty conviction in 2005. He was NOT there to arrest her on hoarding animals, though she WAS banned from owning any kind of animals after her previous conviction. Besides making the mistake of not accompanying her into her house b/c that is standard protocol, he was NICE enough to hold the door for her because he thought she was having some difficulty. 

In NO WAY is she justified in tasering the trooper.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: DnP
> 
> Funny that there was only ONE trooper and he was there only because he was following up on an arrest warrant that was issued for unpaid fines and fees in connection with the animal cruelty conviction in 2005. He was NOT there to arrest her on hoarding animals, though she WAS banned from owning any kind of animals after her previous conviction. Besides making the mistake of not accompanying her into her house b/c that is standard protocol, he was NICE enough to hold the door for her because he thought she was having some difficulty.
> 
> In NO WAY is she justified in tasering the trooper.


I think she might just be a whack job.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

I think so too....unfortunately, she was an underestimated whack job.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you read the link in what she claims happened to start this whole business, then maybe she was justified.

If a police officer pushed into your home and raped you, the next officer who tried to do the exact same thing, would the victim be justified in tasering the second one? I think so. It would depend on how many times the cops are called to deal with you, but if that is your only experience and here it is happening again, well....

Also we think, "This is America, this cannot happen hear" but IF the humane society, dog warden, and police were taking dogs from breeders and selling them for a profit, should not these people be in danger of something??? 

There have been cases where cops have come into compounds and on property, dispatched the dogs, and arrested or killed people, and then it was all a big mistake.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: selzerIf you read the link in what she claims happened to start this whole business, then maybe she was justified.
> 
> If a police officer pushed into your home and raped you, the next officer who tried to do the exact same thing, would the victim be justified in tasering the second one? I think so. It would depend on how many times the cops are called to deal with you, but if that is your only experience and here it is happening again, well....


In no where did it ever say that she was raped. She is claiming to have been assaulted. I've read some of her other "articles" and to be honest, she's got issues. This incident occurred 1. in the daylight, 2. with ONE officer, 3. who was trying to be as cordial as possible by holding the storm door b/c he thought she was having difficulty. I could make the wild claim that she purposefully went into the house with the intent on getting the taser/stun gun for the sole purpose to do harm to the officer. I won't b/c no one knows when she got it or why.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Would you rather be raped or have someone steal your dog and murder your horse? It does say she was pushed, but I think that it is possible, if it is extreme enough that it could be justified to fight back.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Where is the rape and killing of horses coming from? Where is that stated?

I'm not saying that there aren't bad cops but the chances of a cop raping a women, stealing a dog and murdering a horse are pretty slim.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What she claims is that they came in and assaulted her -- knocked her around, wanted papers and such from her files etc, while her husband was in the police car outside, enclosed in hot weather. They left with no citations. 

She came back a few weeks later with her colt slaughtered in her barn and her animals removed. 

Most people would say that was no reason to tase a police officer. 

However, If you had been raped, in the aforementioned scenario -- cop pushes in and rapes you, is THAT a good enough reason to tase a cop if another one pushes through the door? 

What was happening to this woman was a sick deja vu to the earlier incident. 

If she was guilty of animal cruelty and they had good cause to remove her animals, then no, after violating a court order, she would have no business tasing a cop.

On the other hand, if it went down the way she claims, then I don't know. I would find this type of assault worse than anything they could do to me personally. 

We need to always be careful when judging situations, to never believe one party because of who they are, ie police officers, priests, etc. And we should never believe that it could NEVER happen here or these days or what have you. 

Is is possible that humane officers sieze animals from people to sell? In areas that have tons of dogs and puppies turned in, I would doubt it. In places where small dogs or puppies are in demand, why not?


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Well said


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

well, she was found guilty on several counts of cruelty, enough that she was ruled to NEVER own any animal again. I'm not sure if I would entirely believe her side of the story. 

Ive seen many interviews with animal hoarders and they all say that the dead animals found must have been killed by the cops. or planted by animal rights nuts, etc etc. 

Mason Co WV is one shelter that has puppies shipped in for adoption. The other shelter (whereever) and Mason Co split the cost of transport. it helps out both shelters. I can't see them going to all the trouble and expense to plant false evidence, get the cops involved in the cover-up, go to trial etc etc when there are so many other shelters with so many puppies they are destroying them by the dozens??


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

I certainly don't buy her side of the story.

I will buy that she actually believes her side of the story though.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm finding it very hard to believe that cops came in and killed a colt for kicks and giggles. As far as her animals being "stolen", if they officers seized them then she would view them as being stolen regardless of the reasons.

Assault and rape are not the same thing...so was she assaulted (which could be just shoved against a wall or could be a lie) or was she raped?

he said, she said...and then there is the truth....


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Good point Michelle


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I never claimed she was raped, but used it to make a point -- would that be enough to make it OK to attack a police officer? 

People who have animals should be allowed due process. A judge should have to issue an order to sieze animals. People cannot HIDE 50 dogs. It does not make sense to do this in a secret manner. If they told me today that they were coming for my dogs next Friday, I would have a heck of a time trying to find somewhere to stash them and to transport them there, and I only have a few. 

So why do they have to bypass due process. The husband was in the police car because he asked them if they had a search warrant, if her story is true. 

The only reason I do not believe her story is because I do not WANT it to be true. It would scare the daylights out of me. Talk about a horror story. The idea that people can come into your home without a warrant and remove your animals is terrifying. I do not want it to be so; therefore, I do not believe her. I think that makes me crazier than her though.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't think attacking a police officer is ok at all. But you are the one that brought up rape as if it were a fact....not me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Never did, people jumped on it as though I said it as fact, I said IF.... I was trying to explain the same thing with other terms. 

I think it is ok to attack police officers if they are rounding people up and imprisoning them in death camps. A police officer was convicted near here for molesting his niece, would it have been ok for her dad to attack him? 

Right now most of us live in a society where the police are kind of like referees in football games -- you got to have them, they call it like they see it, and you cannot attack them. But then one threw a beebee bag into Zeus's eye -- ended his career. The flag does not have to HIT the offender, though this was a trend for a while there, it just needs to land on the carpet. But the ref got carried away. And Zeus attacked him for it, and was fined, etc. But his career was over due to the injury. 

In a society, you do not want anarchy. At the same time, if you put certain individuals above everyone else, "why would they lie?" and always BELIEVE that they are in the right, and make it so it is ALWAYS wrong to fight back, then you are giving up a great amount of power. 

If a police officer came to my house without a warrant and tried to remove an animal from my property, I truly do not know what I would do. If a police officer stormed through your front door and demanded Jax what would you do? 

As a breeder, there is another aspect to this, and that is the speuter thing. If they take your animals and await a hearing, and you fight with lawyers to get your dogs back. Oops, somehow we accidently spayed that one or neutered that one. And I currently have a dog that is VERY aggressive when in a crate or kennel. She is scared, but looks like the tasmanian devil. Out and about she is fine. The wrong shelter worker might get themselves bitten -- would I be liable for their behavior while in the care of the shelter. Would the dog be euthanized anyway? 

We cannot guard our homes and dogs with a shotgun, at least not with the police. That would be anarchy. On the other hand could you let them walk away with your critters without an argument? I think I would be in jail at the end of the day. I doubt if I would physically assault anyone but my mouth would be going.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I see no reason for a police officer to storm thru my door and take my animals. I don't neglect my animals. I don't have 50 of them wandering around. Neither of us have so much as a traffic ticket and I'm not paranoid enough to speculate on how the police are out to get me. 

I think the father of the girl could have attacked the police officer and it would have nothing to do with him being a cop.

I do have to wonder what your issue with police officers are. You did say "If"...you did....however, where did that come from? Nowhere was it stated that the woman was raped and it has NO parallels to what happened. Rape is a very serious crime of rage. You did, however, state that the cops came back and killed a horse as if it was a fact. You have not even considered that the woman may be a whack job and have attacked the police in all of your posts.

Whatever..it was all theoretical, right?







That's why you were so nasty on the thread where ppl gave their dog away, just so happens to a cop, and now want their dog back. Do they have a stable place to live? Nope. Do they have any means to care for the dog? Nope. And you, as a breeder, thinks that this is ok? But...it's all theoretical...


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Back to the woman at the start of this -- When I read her posts carefully, I picked up a lot of illogic. Suddenly characterizing government officials and the police as "communists" stuck out big time. Any socialist knows that our government doesn't approach communism and the police have few leftist leanings at all. 

I think she has serious mental issues and desperately needs help. Animals need to be protected from her. She was breaking the terms of her parole/probation by having not just one but many many many animals. 

Hey - I'm off to buy an airline ticket.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

This is why I've missed you!! You always have the voice of reason!! 

Yeah...go get your puppy!!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not believe her either, but only because I don't want it to be so. I have heard enough stories, a breeder that my friend knows had a piece of property in the city worth good money and was approached to sell it. She refused. 

The animal control came in and looked through her dresser drawers to get the papers of the dogs. they took all her dogs. she was not a hoarder, she was a breeder who showed her dogs and had champions. They charged her with animal cruelty. 

She got a lawyer and fought back. She won. They returned those dogs that had not been euthanized. Some of them had been bred -- while in captivity, court proceedings take time. Her pugs were fostered by another pug breeder, and suddenly her bitch' litter contained colors that were not in her lines!!! 

So you say, no harm no foul, she got her dogs back -- well most of them. But because she was charged with animal cruelty, she was suspended by the AKC. She cannot even go to a show, be on the premises. She was found innocent, but she was out all the money for the defense, and her AKC privleges. This was someone who had never had any run ins with AC or the police before. 

Can it happen. I believe it can happen. The police/animal control whoever was involved in the siezure. If they are doing it without a search warrant and without a siezure order than it should be illegal. 

The woman from this thread actually claims that she came home and her horse had been slaughtered, and her animals removed. Generally police assist animal control where there is a such thing. I do not know how the horse was slaughtered. 

Human beings like to be in control. We like things orderly. We like to think that if we stay on the straight and narrow, and obey all the laws, then nobody will ever bother us. That is my strategy anyway. But there are cases, this may not be one, where people are targeted by PETA and have undergone [heck] for no misdeeds at all. 

Remember, to PETA (who called in the complaint on this), breeding dogs IS an offense. And deep down, owning dogs is an offense. 

They tell you how to turn in a breeder. They explain how to bring in the media and find the worst site and pick the worst looking animal and hold it. They tell you that if they can find nothing wrong with the dogs' condition, get people for structural problems -- a problem with the ceiling, an extension cord. They tell you that if that is clean, turn the IRS onto them. 

You bet that I CAN believe that they WILL break laws and ruin people's lives for their greater good. 

Hoarding is a big problem, and yes hoarders are sick and need help, and their animals need to be regularly monitored to ensure that they are within the proper limits and have the proper care. I do not know if this woman is a hoarder, or if she is just paranoid after having a grusome experience with her animals. 

If a judge ordered that you never own animals again, could you do it? I cannot imagine life without dogs.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> If a judge ordered that you never own animals again, could you do it? I cannot imagine life without dogs.


Here is the sticking point for me, though. It takes a really big mess, that has been an on-going issue, to prompt a court to ban a defendant from ever owning an animal. If someone's life has gotten to the point where a judge says they can never own an animal again, they have gotten to the point where they really shouldn't own an animal again. 

I was involved in the biggest hoarding case ever seen in this part of the country. The woman had over 500 dogs on a rural property in South-East Oregon. This was not a typical pet owner, or even a marginal back yard breeder. This was a woman that had over 500 dogs, none of which were being cared for properly. They had packed up into separate groups and lived like feral animals. I was there during those first couple of days and I have to say that a 10 lb. terrier mix might not be scary on an individual basis, but when you are rushed by 40 of them, it can make you hesitate more than just a second.

This woman was incapable of seeing the situation as it truly was. She accused the humane society of being pawns of the animal right wingnuts. She accused the rescue groups of being pawns of rival breeders (big laugh there, since it had been many generations since any of those dogs were purebred).

The next hoarder case I was involved in had much fewer numbers, but the symptoms displayed by the couple involved were exactly the same as the woman in Oregon. In this case there were 17 horses and 11 dogs. And again there were many excuses and accusations from the people, all aimed at explaining why it was happening that ignored the real reason why. 

There was a rescue/hoarder case in 2005/2006 where the woman claimed the dead cats had been killed by the shelter staff there to box and transport. Claiming that dead animals were put there on purpose to discredit the hoarder in question is very common. Claiming that she came home and found a slaughtered horse in her barn would be par for the course with a hoarder. Deflect blame and cast suspicion onto the authorities, all while providing a personally blameless reason for an animal body.

Nobody enjoys these cases. It creates a huge headache for everyone, especially the people in charge of caring for the animals in question. To think that anyone would do it just to flex some muscle, or to act out some freaky political agenda is kind of ridiculous. It takes a long time for a jurisdiction to act on stuff like this. Believe me when I say that PETA can't just waltz in and demand that some innocent breeder have all her animals confiscated. It just doesn't happen like that.
Sheilah


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

A fact that I was not aware of when I first became involved with rescue (not 100% but many) hoarders keep some of the dead animals. Bodies are placed in rubbish bins or freezers and kept there for long periods of time. Bodies of larger animals such as horses are often just allowed to stay in the barn or in fields where the animal dropped. So even after death they refuse to give up the animal by disposing of the body. 

A friend of mine went on a recent call and has no idea of how many animals were layiing around dead in kennels or on the grounds. She said it looked like the bodies had "just melted" into the ground. Neighbors said they were shocked to find out that so many dead animals were there. 

My daughter went on a call earlier this year - again there were dead bodies in chest freezers and the surviving animals were living in filth. Yet this <u>rescue</u> did not see a problem. Blame was placed elsewhere. 

Because someone is a hoarder does not mean they can not function around other people, hold jobs, or have wonderful websites or blogs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm no expert but I think part of being mentally ill is that you don't know you have a problem.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Jax, agree completely! I was always told "if you are able to ask 'am I crazy' then you're probably sane" 
if people were able to realize how off-kilter their behavior is, they wouldn't need outside agencies to step in and pick up the pieces.


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