# Registration and color questions



## NatalieCat (Apr 10, 2012)

I got my puppy Katie on Easter, the breeder that I got her from sounded quite reputable on the phone. He talked about hip certifications, said they were registered, discussed temperament, and colors with us. He sounded pretty good all around so we decided we wanted a puppy from him. I've always wanted a female black and red german shepherd with long hair, and he showed me a picture of a beautiful one. So I made the five hour trip to go get this puppy from him. When I got there the puppy he showed me was not the puppy he had sent me a picture of. He then told me that the picture I had was of a male he had already sold. He showed me the female puppies he did have. One he called black and tan but it was definitely sable, and the other he called black and red. She is the one I picked. He then told me she was ACA registered because it was cheaper. At that point all I knew about registries was that the AKC had more dog shows. So at this point he was seeming questionable, but I had just driven five hours to see these puppies and I didn't want to leave without one. I have two questions about her registration and one about her color. 

1. Does the ACA have a place where I can look up the dogs in her pedigree?

2. She has a dog farther back in her pedigree labeled black and rust, I didn't think that was a GSD color option. WHat does it mean?

3. Her fur when she is inside with little lighting looks red, but outside in the sun it looks very tan, which is she?

Sorry for the long story, thanks for any answers to these questions!


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Everything you probably need to know can be found on their website.
http://acacanines.com/


If it was me, once I got the pedigree I'd research the dogs in it to see if any of them were AKC registered. Often times AKC dogs sold on limited registrations, (meaning if they're bred their litters can't be registered with the AKC) fall into the hands of people who breed them anyway.


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## NatalieCat (Apr 10, 2012)

The ACAs website doesn't answer any of my questions. It says nothing about black and rust, and I can't find any database on their website of registered dogs


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

I guess your best bet is to call the ACA and see if they can help you.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

I've seen 'black and rust' coloring used to describe coloring in other breeds (doberman, Rottweiler, among others) but never for GSD's. Perhaps you could post a picture and others here could tell you what they think. From the way you describe it, it sounds like your pup is black and tan, but pictures would make identifying a lot easier. 

I have no advice to give about the ACA. Most of what I have heard and read about it has been fairly negative and alot of people consider it a 'junk' registry used by puppy mills and 'backyard breeders'. Others here may be able to give more info about that, and perhaps what I have heard about it is incorrect. 

Either way, enjoy your pup. Unless you were planning on showing or breeding papers don't make any difference.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

ACA falls along the lines of CKC(Continental Kennel Club). They are a made up registry to make is possible to register your dogs .
AKC and CKC(Canadian Kennel Club) are registries that have been around for years and years. They are able to keep registries pure and go back for generations and generations, therefore you pretty much know what you are buying, the pedigrees, etc.
When you see ACA and CKC(Continental) registered puppies, what you have are puppies bred from hopefully purebred parents that have been registered with "fake" registries because the people who owned the sire/dam did not have AKC/CKC registration papers on their dogs and therefore registered them with the "fake" registries to say they are registered. They get their dogs from unregistered back yard dogs, dogs from pounds that are not purebred and not spayed/neutered but look enough purebred to be able to be in these registries. Or bought limited registration from either AKC or CKC breeders, did not follow through with their contracts to spay/neuter and went ahead, registered with the "fake" registries and then bred them to make money.Some folks even make up pedigrees with well known names of dogs on them.
Not one bit of this matters as long as you like the puppy. Color doesn't matter either, probably just one person's idea of color.Enjoy her and have fun. Get her spayed and then you can get her registered with AKC in the Pet Partners(used to be ILP) and do performance events with her.
Like in horses there is "sorrel" or Chesnut". Both are pretty much the same colors, but depends on the registry whether it will say sorrel or chestnut. lol


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Can you post a picture of your girl?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The AKC lists Black and Tan, Black and red, Black and Silver, Black and cream as well as white, bi-color, sable, black and maybe blue and liver on their form. I can't be sure exactly. 

But the Black-ands are all the same color. Black and brown I think in Germany. The Brown is just qualified. A black and Silver is a washed out black and tan. A black and red is a black and tan (or brown if you prefer) with deep pigment. It is up to the breeder to determine between black and red or black and tan or black and silver. And I think black and cream is also just the level of pigment for the tan part. 

Puppies change and lighten up. The AKC is not going to come down hard on someone if a dog they listed as black and red turns out to be black and tan when it is two years old. However, if there is an inspection and the inspector is expecting to see a black and tan dog and the dog is a red sable, there can be some questionmarks. If it is a patterned sable, it is hard to say. A lot of people really cannot tell the difference between a patterned sable and a black and tan dog. And, I expect even more people make mistakes between bi-color and black and tan.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

A breeder friend told me the same thing..."black and tan is just black and tan". It's just deeper or less deep pigmentation.


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## NatalieCat (Apr 10, 2012)

Here's a picture from yesterday










I know it doesn't really matter since i definitely plan on getting her fixed as soon as she's old enough, and i don't plan on doing any showing with her. Also she is adorable and has a really great temperament so far  I'm happy with her I was just curious, thanks for the info everyone!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

She's a cutie, look at those ears!!! She's black and red now, but she might lighten into tan. Hard to say.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

NatalieCat said:


> Here's a picture from yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cute as a button! And you CAN still get a limited registry (once she's spayed) on her so work in all the funs classes like Rally, agility, herding, flyball etc.


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