# Eye contact



## Henricus (Jan 9, 2016)

I have started puppy lessons two weeks ago and they gave us the assignment to train eye contact with our pups (mine is 14.5 weeks atm). 
The training consists basically of holding up a treat in between the eye and saying the word "look", when the pup makes eye contact you click and give a treat. 

I had a short discussion with the instructor because I thought it was better to use the pups name instead of the word "look". She had a lot to say about that, to make a long story short; I was completely wrong. 

I formed my opinion based on this video:
http://youtu.be/9oo6tcSxWWg
(I'm on mobile so I don't know how to make it embed) 
I really like this guy, he seems to be a wonderfully skilled dog trainer. 

What do you guys think? Is better to use the name or a word like "look"? 
(I have already done a few short sessions with the word "look", but no significant progress yet).


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

Henricus said:


> (I have already done a few short sessions with the word "look", but no significant progress yet).


I also use the cue "look" for eye contact. Have you named the behavior before the pup is consistantly giving you eye contact? Try just luring and rewarding until she is pretty reliable before adding the cue. And remember when you add the cue to always use the cue, lure, then click treat. Sometimes we get our timing off and lure before the cue and they get confused, or don't make the connection.

Remember she is still pretty young and has a short attention span, several short fun sessions and stop while she still wants more is better than long sessions and she loses interest!

Good luck!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I always trained it with leash pressure. I'd do tiny little annoying leash pops while making a funny noise till they looked up and made eye contact and when they did I mark and either celebrate or sometimes celebrate and give food. They generally get pretty significant headway inside of one session and it's usually done within 3. I fade the food pretty quickly and when they're clear on what I want I start to add duration and then start tactful punishment for noncompliance. It can be made a really strong behavior even in young puppies very very quickly. Especially when you start requiring eye contact for the dog to be able to access stuff it wants from you.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I never use the dogs name. I use look or watch me with a clicking noise at first. Then it becomes just watch me or look...I use watch me more. It doesn't take long for them to learn it. I start with the treat by my eyes and move to the treat in my hand with my arm extended out away from me--once I can say watch me with the treat away from my face and they actually watch me, I phase out treats.


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## Coleen (Sep 18, 2015)

I use the word "focus". I held a treat between my eyes and when she looked at my eyes, I said focus and gave her a treat. Done deal.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Newlie is not a puppy, but I have found that insisting on eye contact has been helpful because he is so distractible. When he has to make eye contact, it helps him either to hear me better or less able to pretend he doesn't hear me, lol. I use the word "eyes" and when I say it, he must comply to get food, toys, the word OK to release, etc.


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## Henricus (Jan 9, 2016)

Thanks everybody! I'll just continue with the cue "look" then. 
That'll also make my instructor happy, haha. 
I will try some of your suggestions. Again, thanks!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I have always used the word 'watch' to make eye contact. I use 'look' when I want the dog to look at something specific - not at me.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

I use treats with a puppy and a toy with an older dog.I do have a command that goes along with the exercise, I use "watch" and then "yessssssssss" in a low volume as a positive marker just before I reward. Later on I can just use the "sssssssssss" as a marker under my breath to gain focus and put the dog into a slighter higher drive. 

After the dog is up to several minutes of focused staring, I will add a correction in for looking away as that is now disobedience. I make all the dogs sit and stare at me when I put their food bowl down. I must have complete focus before they are released to eat. I also do this before they go out the door, leave their kennel or get in and out of the car. The dogs will all sit and wait, staring at me to be released. I also use a toy and work this with heeling or just sitting at the "basic" position. 

One thing builds on the next and teaches the dog focus and to contain itself. 

An important note to keep in mind, when the dog closes it's mouth and stares it is really focused and concentrating. I will wait for the mouth to close before rewarding. Unless, the dog is gassed and it is a really hot day, then you may not get the 100% mouth closure, but you will get something close. Watch for this when working with your dog.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Slamdunc said:


> I use treats with a puppy and a toy with an older dog.I do have a command that goes along with the exercise, I use "watch" and then "yessssssssss" in a low volume as a positive marker just before I reward. Later on I can just use the "sssssssssss" as a marker under my breath to gain focus and put the dog into a slighter higher drive.
> 
> After the dog is up to several minutes of focused staring, I will add a correction in for looking away as that is now disobedience. I make all the dogs sit and stare at me when I put their food bowl down. I must have complete focus before they are released to eat. I also do this before they go out the door, leave their kennel or get in and out of the car. The dogs will all sit and wait, staring at me to be released. I also use a toy and work this with heeling or just sitting at the "basic" position.
> 
> ...


Slamdunc, thanks so much for the tips you included, particularly the last paragraph. I have seen Newlie when he appeared to be really focused and not as much at other times and the comment about watching his mouth was very helpful. There are some of us, myself included, who at times feel that we are just fumbling along, doing the best we can, and more of this kind of information would be great!


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## Henricus (Jan 9, 2016)

newlie said:


> Slamdunc said:
> 
> 
> > I use treats with a puppy and a toy with an older dog.I do have a command that goes along with the exercise, I use "watch" and then "yessssssssss" in a low volume as a positive marker just before I reward. Later on I can just use the "sssssssssss" as a marker under my breath to gain focus and put the dog into a slighter higher drive.
> ...


^ 
Exactly what newlie said!


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Not trying to stir the pot but isn't teaching a dog to make eye contact just a learned "trick" of sorts? Even though my dog knows "eyes" and will maintain eye contact with me until I release her in one form or another...how is it any different than having her trained to look at my knee or hand? What is the big benefit of having your dog stare at your eyes? Is it just a basic form of impulse control or focus exercise? If it is just an exercise then wouldn't it make more sense to take it further and have the dog trained to lock its stare on to an object that requires more impulse control until released rather than staring at the handler's eyes?

The reason I ask this is because a year or so ago when I posted regarding this eye contact training I heard a few varying opinions. As time went by, some of these varying opinions made sense dependent upon the situation.


SuperG


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Regarding the terms to use:
I use a word and not the dog's name. The dog's name can be used in connection with a lot of commands so you don't want it to mean just one thing. (Kind of a "listen up" before a command)
I selected a word that I do not use in normal conversation. For instance if I liked the idea of the word "watch" I would change it to "watchie". This was after having two dogs trained to release with a word that crept into my conversation... Can have unintended consequences...


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## Henricus (Jan 9, 2016)

I have found an article teaching how to make the dog have focus and impulse control. I guess that's the thing. Just having the dog trained to be focused on you. 

I'll link the website here. It's a bit long, but I liked reading it.
http://www.puppyleaks.com/how-to-increase-your-dogs-focus-impulse-control/


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## Henricus (Jan 9, 2016)

middleofnowhere said:


> Regarding the terms to use:
> I use a word and not the dog's name. The dog's name can be used in connection with a lot of commands so you don't want it to mean just one thing. (Kind of a "listen up" before a command)
> I selected a word that I do not use in normal conversation. For instance if I liked the idea of the word "watch" I would change it to "watchie". This was after having two dogs trained to release with a word that crept into my conversation... Can have unintended consequences...


Yes, I can imagine the unwanted situation. I use two words in Dutch that mean "look", but are an abbreviation of the correct "look". It is often used with babies. I hadn't chosen this on purpose, but now reading message I'm glad I did.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

SuperG said:


> Not trying to stir the pot but isn't teaching a dog to make eye contact just a learned "trick" of sorts? Even though my dog knows "eyes" and will maintain eye contact with me until I release her in one form or another...how is it any different than having her trained to look at my knee or hand? What is the big benefit of having your dog stare at your eyes? Is it just a basic form of impulse control or focus exercise? If it is just an exercise then wouldn't it make more sense to take it further and have the dog trained to lock its stare on to an object that requires more impulse control until released rather than staring at the handler's eyes?
> 
> The reason I ask this is because a year or so ago when I posted regarding this eye contact training I heard a few varying opinions. As time went by, some of these varying opinions made sense dependent upon the situation.
> 
> ...


SuperG, I am not sure I know the answers to your questions. I do know it has helped Newlie to focus on what I am saying and I get more compliance by having him look me in the eye. As I mentioned earlier, Newlie is distractible, he reminds me of the dog in that movie "Up" who in the middle of a sentence will cry "SQUIRREL." I think this is an exercise that builds both impulse control and focus and I would like to get to the point where no matter where we were, he would focus on me to the exclusion of all else if I said the word.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

SuperG- Focus on the handler is the basis for all training. 

If the dog isn't paying attention to you, you've got nothing.

So I don't consider eye contact or focus on handler a trick, it's more a foundation for you and the dog's relationship which you build upon for training or just general everyday life with the dog stuff. 

Eye contact is important. It means the dog is really paying attention and cued into you- and SlamDunc had a great tip with the closed-mouth meaning genuine focus. I like incorporating it into daily life, just in general- feeding time is a good time to practice without much effort at all. It's also a great basis for focused heeling for any dog sport.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Muskeg said:


> SuperG- Focus on the handler is the basis for all training.
> 
> If the dog isn't paying attention to you, you've got nothing.


Once again....is "focus on the handler" only generated by eye contact??? This is my question....I am* not* suggesting that having the dog's attention and "focus" is anything less than crucial. For example, when I do these concocted off leash drills with my dog such as...dog's in a tight heel..I stop...dog defaults to a sit...I step away right foot first...dog stays...I walk 10 yards and stop or maybe not...when I tap my left hip...dog comes charging...and then sits in the slot or continues in a tight heel if I am moving. I never say a word nor do I ever look at the dog....the dog is completely focused on my left hand as the cue. Have I created "focus" with my left hand since the dog is completely honed in on the moment that tap occurs? My point is...I don't believe for a second that my dog needs to be staring at me in order to have it "paying attention" to me. Does my dog look me in the eyes when asked or at times when she is wondering what is next...yes but it could just as easily be my hands or legs.

Oh, FWIW...I have mostly quit using the "training over the food bowl " routine unless it's a new skill being taught...even then, I generally won't. As a pup I trained her over the food bowl and it is a good place to start...you get results but getting those same results without the food bowl in front of their face is the goal...but a good place to start I suppose. The dog is only offering the behavior because it wants to eat....I'm not looking for that type of relationship or adherence to my commands simply because the dog wants to eat.

SuperG


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

SuperG said:


> Once again....is "focus on the handler" only generated by eye contact??? This is my question....I am* not* suggesting that having the dog's attention and "focus" is anything less than crucial. For example, when I do these concocted off leash drills with my dog such as...dog's in a tight heel..I stop...dog defaults to a sit...I step away right foot first...dog stays...I walk 10 yards and stop or maybe not...when I tap my left hip...dog comes charging...and then sits in the slot or continues in a tight heel if I am moving. I never say a word nor do I ever look at the dog....the dog is completely focused on my left hand as the cue. Have I created "focus" with my left hand since the dog is completely honed in on the moment that tap occurs? My point is...I don't believe for a second that my dog needs to be staring at me in order to have it "paying attention" to me. Does my dog look me in the eyes when asked or at times when she is wondering what is next...yes but it could just as easily be my hands or legs.
> 
> Oh, FWIW...I have mostly quit using the "training over the food bowl " routine unless it's a new skill being taught...even then, I generally won't. As a pup I trained her over the food bowl and it is a good place to start...you get results but getting those same results without the food bowl in front of their face is the goal...but a good place to start I suppose. The dog is only offering the behavior because it wants to eat....I'm not looking for that type of relationship or adherence to my commands simply because the dog wants to eat.
> 
> SuperG


SuperG,
I'm not sure what your goal is with your dog. I still make Boomer who is 10 yrs old, sit and focus on me when I put his food bowl down. The dog is offering the behavior because I asked for it, not simply because he wants to eat. He knows he can eat when I am finished, that may be in 10 seconds or 10 minutes. It is simply obedience and impulse control. This is not about the food, it is about containing himself regardless of the situation. It may be for a toy when heeling, it may to keep his attention on me while I heel past another dog that is barking and growling at him. He is dominant and dog aggressive and will not look at another dog when I tell him to "watch me." I use this walking through crowds of thousands of people at a Nationally Televised football game for example. Boomer does not like strangers touching and will not allow a stranger to pet him. I simply say "Foos" and he focuses on my eyes, walks next to me and you can literally pour water over his head, and come up and grab his ears and he will not look away. That is the one time a stranger can safely touch him. 

For what I do, it has significance. If the dog is in a highly driven, agitated or excited state, I can say "watch me" and get his 100% attention and direct to the task at hand. The food bowl is just one part of the consistency that I use. In sport heeling, I want 10 minutes of focus. Working on the street, I may have Boomer switch gears from apprehending a suspect to now sniffing the car for drugs. I may go from a covert building clear with the SWAT team and transitioning to searching the house for drugs for our narcotics unit. It is all about impulse control, capping and focus. 

For most people the best use is to get the focus when walking your dog past a barking dog. I simply use the "watch me" command and walk by as if my dog is the only dog in the world. My dogs will not look away, bark or focus on another dog. They know the dog is there, but will not respond. That is the kind of control that I like and the focus definitely helps get you there. 

Regarding the use of commands, it is good to have a command that you do not use in everyday language. I say "OK" to release my dogs, I have taken that word out of my normal vocabulary when I am with my dogs. That is a common word and if I put Boomer in a down stay on the street and say "OK" to someone else he may break. It took time some years ago, to teach myself not to say it when I am working with my dogs. That is the command that I worry about. "Watch me" is not an issue as I do not say that in normal conversation. It was tricky to eliminate "OK" from my vocabulary, but I did it. I guess it similar to not cursing around children or the general public. I may add some colorful expletives when talking to close friends, but I never curse when talking to my wife. I also never use any colorful words when working or out in the public, unless I am emphatically asking some one to show me their hands, or drop what it is their hands. :smirk:


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> I say "OK" to release my dogs


I do the same, and every time I swear I'm going to use "Free" but ok just comes out so easily that I end up with it by default.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Steve Strom said:


> I do the same, and every time I swear I'm going to use "Free" but ok just comes out so easily that I end up with it by default.


Initially, it was a real PITA. But, then I got the hang of not saying it when the dog was around. Fortunately, my dogs will not take commands from other people so it is pretty safe. Recently, I had Boomer out off lead and put him in a down / stay. For some reason, I said "OK" to the person I was talking to and Boomer sprung up and was moving. I quickly downed him and realized what I did. 

My big problem now is the new dog is trained in Dutch and I am not savvy with Dutch Commands. "Plots" means come to the heel position, sounds like "Platz" German for down. I've been using Platz for down for 20+ years, now for one dog it means come to my side. "Af" means down, but I say "OFF" for my dogs to get off the furniture. I went outside and Boru was laying on the cushions on the patio furniture. I said "get off" and he layed there and looked at me. I said it again and got annoyed and he sunk further into a down. I only had the dog a week, but I was about to grab him and toss him "off" the couch, when I realized he was listening and doing what I told him. I laughed and shook my head, then I got him "off" the couch.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Lol, another one I had to start was "Say Hi" I said ok to let a couple of people pet my dog and they got pee'd on.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Slamdunc said:


> SuperG,
> I'm not sure what your goal is with your dog.* Higher performance companion dog.* I still make Boomer who is 10 yrs old, sit and focus on me when I put his food bowl down. The dog is offering the behavior because I asked for it, not simply because he wants to eat. He knows he can eat when I am finished, that may be in 10 seconds or 10 minutes. It is simply obedience and impulse control.* Boomer knows the behavior and it pays dividends in other environments but not over his food bowl*.* If you continue this practice to reinforce the behavior, I can appreciate the drill over the food bowl otherwise, what's the point as long as Boomer performs as commanded in the "real world" ?* This is not about the food, it is about containing himself regardless of the situation.* As I mentioned earlier, dogs are geniuses over their food bowl...not what I am looking for...but a good place to start perhaps.* *You read it all too often in here that many owners have great success training while they are stuffing food down their dog's gullet but then experience difficulty when they try to fade the beef..I can almost see that little old lady in the old Wendy's commercial in many of these dogs that give their handlers fits because they are food reliant...you know the dog's thinking " Where's the beef?"* It may be for a toy when heeling, it may to keep his attention on me while I heel past another dog that is barking and growling at him. He is dominant and dog aggressive and will not look at another dog when I tell him to "watch me." I use this walking through crowds of thousands of people at a Nationally Televised football game for example. Boomer does not like strangers touching and will not allow a stranger to pet him. I simply say "Foos" and he focuses on my eyes,*$5 says you could have trained him to focus on your left knee or hip and have the same results.* *Once again, my main question is, what's so magical about the eyes?. I'm guessing when this whole "focus" method started it was just an obvious place to have a dog focus on...* walks next to me and you can literally pour water over his head, and come up and grab his ears and he will not look away.* I am glad you mentioned this because it touches on some of the countering opinions I received a year ago regarding locked on eye contact. Some suggested that they would rather have their dog not staring up at them , so the dog can be aware of its surroundings but still maintaining "focus" on the handler. In your line of business, when your dog is staring at you...you now are your dog's eyes to a certain degree* *and have somewhat compromised the "vigilance" of your sidekick but maybe that is of no consequence??* That is the one time a stranger can safely touch him.
> 
> For what I do, it has significance. If the dog is in a highly driven, agitated or excited state, I can say "watch me" and get his 100% attention and direct to the task at hand. The food bowl is just one part of the consistency that I use. In sport heeling, I want 10 minutes of focus. Working on the street, I may have Boomer switch gears from apprehending a suspect to now sniffing the car for drugs. I may go from a covert building clear with the SWAT team and transitioning to searching the house for drugs for our narcotics unit. It is all about impulse control, capping and focus.
> ...


I appreciate your response and made some comments above in bold obviously but I feel like my original points have been confused a bit. I completely work with my dog on focus and impulse control drills because I have a dog reactive dog, I'd of trained the same even if she wasn't most likely and to date the best results I have achieved is through obedience skills, focus and impulse control just as you cited earlier.

I actually have my wife put the dog through some drills over the food bowl because their relationship is different...she chooses to not take an active role in the dog's training and obedience...which is fine. The dog will listen to her but not nearly as well as the dog obeys me but that's to be expected due to involvement and the established relationship they have. So, one evening my wife is feeding the dog...she does the drill...dog sits..locks onto her eyes and awaits a release..that was the drill on that night. I go out into the kitchen and I see my dog still sitting, looking at her food bowl with my wife in another room on the phone. So, I ask my wife when she is going to release the dog and she gives me the " huh? she isn't done eating yet?" I guess the phone call interrupted the process but the dog stayed put for probably 10 minutes plus. She asked me to release the dog and I said nope...you follow through.The point to this story is there is no way she could get the same results even in the backyard with nary a distraction...the dog would have broken if she went in the house within a minute. So, I contend the dog in that instance ( waiting to be released for its dinner ) is only obeying because of the food and that is fine if it's my wife but I do not want to build my dog's adherence to obedience based on food. Hopefully, you can see what I am driving at.

SuperG


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I may be getting in over my head here, but I don't think anybody means that that they only ask for focus over food. I have used the same thing when Newlie wanted a toy and when he wanted me to play tug or throw a ball or swing a flirt pole. I think it's great if you have gotten your dog to focus on you without making eye contact, but that did not work for me. Newlie locking his eyes on mine has definitely made a difference.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

SG,
Ok, I think I see what you are saying. 

First, Boomer is a very dog aggressive, dog reactive dog. The reason he does not act out, is because I have zero tolerance for dog aggression. I can not have a DA dog while out tracking through a neighborhood at 2AM and pits and other dogs rush their fences or become aggressive towards him. My dog must ignore those dogs and other distractions and keep working at the task at hand. 

Secondly, this is not about the food bowl, it is about obedience and control. The food bowl is just another example. If the dog is told to sit and stay, the food is just another distraction. It is simply obedience and your dog was being obedient waiting for to be released. With me and the food, sitting and staying is not enough, I want the focus and eye contact. The mouth shut and the intense staring, waiting for me to tell the dog what is next. I feed raw and what I feed my dogs is very high value, even so this is impulse control, containment and OB. It is about consistency and the dog learning that it gets what it wants, ball, food, toy, praise by performing properly. The dog obeys because that is obedience and it's training, not because of the food, that is the reward. There is a difference. I am simply very consistent and everything is black and white, there are no grey areas. 

Why focus on my eyes, because that is where my commands come from, my face. When the dog is focused on my face, I know he / she is engaged with me. 

Another rule is we never wear sunglasses when working dogs. I never do OB, agility or bite work with sunglasses on. I want the dog to see my eyes. It is about communication and eye contact is a very strong form of communication. 

Also, when working I have 3 heeling commands: 

1) "Foos" - heel next to me, shoulder next to my left knee and focused on my face. More for training, certifications, demos and sport work. Or heeling through large crowds, the vet office, or when approached by another dog. 

2) "heel" which means walk by my side in the heel position, but you can look around and be aware of your surroundings. Eye contact is not expected, nor wanted. This is for foot patrols, and moving to a task while working. 

3) "Easy" - walk ahead of me, do what you want, pee on a bush, just do not pull me down the street. 

Boomer has his BH and was ready for his IPO 1 when I donated him to my Dept to be my K-9 partner. He has intense focus and I had worked him up to 10 minutes of focused staring at me while sitting at the heel position. I had to change this and a few other things when he hit the street. Fortunately, biting people came fairly naturally. As we had our first track to an apprehension of a guy wanted for rape and a bite on our first day on the street. One record we still hold in my unit.

I hope that makes sense.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Steve Strom said:


> Lol, another one I had to start was "Say Hi" I said ok to let a couple of people pet my dog and they got pee'd on.


You trained your dog to pee on people.....LOL:laugh:

That is a good trick.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

newlie said:


> I may be getting in over my head here, but I don't think anybody means that that they only ask for focus over food. I have used the same thing when Newlie wanted a toy and when he wanted me to play tug or throw a ball or swing a flirt pole. I think it's great if you have gotten your dog to focus on you without making eye contact, but that did not work for me. Newlie locking his eyes on mine has definitely made a difference.


If its what you want, its fine. What can be a problem though is making them dependent on it when they feel pressured. That can happen when you use it as a kind of avoidance behavior for them because something is bothering them, like another dog. Its a balancing act sometimes.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Slamdunc said:


> You trained your dog to pee on people.....LOL:laugh:
> 
> That is a good trick.


And its self-rewarding so you don't have to worry about that whole carrying treats and bribing him thing.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Steve Strom said:


> If its what you want, its fine. What can be a problem though is making them dependent on it when they feel pressured. That can happen when you use it as a kind of avoidance behavior for them because something is bothering them, like another dog. Its a balancing act sometimes.


Thank for chiming in, Steve. Can you give me an example so I can make sure I understand?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Steve Strom said:


> What can be a problem though is making them dependent on it when they feel pressured. That can happen when you use it as a kind of avoidance behavior for them because something is bothering them, like another dog. Its a balancing act sometimes.


This is my situation....I did not want to make the eye contact and order the dog to do as such to be the final fix for my dog's reactivity. It is a step in the right direction but as silly as it might sound the "focus" I am looking for in this particular situation is for the dog to trust/rely on me with complete confidence and exhibit absolutely no avoidance behavior...and I believe my shortcoming is I have yet to impress upon my dog that I am that leader which will walk her through heII and she need not react until asked. Yeah, it's humbling but it is just being honest with myself. 

SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Slamdunc said:


> SG,
> Ok, I think I see what you are saying.
> 
> First, Boomer is a very dog aggressive, dog reactive dog. The reason he does not act out, is because I have zero tolerance for dog aggression. I can not have a DA dog while out tracking through a neighborhood at 2AM and pits and other dogs rush their fences or become aggressive towards him. My dog must ignore those dogs and other distractions and keep working at the task at hand.
> ...


Slam,


It all makes sense....and from this thread, I have learned some things and will incorporate some tweaks going forward....thanks.

I have tried my best to prompt people involved in this thread to answer a repeated question...what is so magical about the eyes ?? You finally gave an answer " Why focus on my eyes, because that is where my commands come from, my face. When the dog is focused on my face, I know he / she is engaged with me. " Since you finally supplied an answer, I'll now ask the obvious question. In the dog world, eye contact is significant and some of it bleeds over to the human/dog relationship. In the dog world, dogs staring at each other is confrontational and can be a catalyst for a rumble, granted our own dogs most likely understand this won't happen...but, is there the slightest potential that training your dog to stare at you is forcing the dog to submit in any way, shape or form? Does establishing eye contact with one's dog shape a dog's obedience in a manner that the dog is submitting itself to the handler, even if it is minimal ?

SuperG


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Henricus said:


> I have started puppy lessons two weeks ago and they gave us the assignment to train eye contact with our pups (mine is 14.5 weeks atm).
> The training consists basically of holding up a treat in between the eye and saying the word "look", when the pup makes eye contact you click and give a treat.
> 
> I had a short discussion with the instructor because I thought it was better to use the pups name instead of the word "look". She had a lot to say about that, to make a long story short; I was completely wrong.
> ...


In our training classes, we held a treat to our forehead and used the word "focus". Worked beautifully. We were told to never use the dog's name, because using their name is used when you want the dog to move toward you. I hope I expressed that correctly.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

newlie said:


> Thank for chiming in, Steve. Can you give me an example so I can make sure I understand?


It may not seem like a big deal, but see where Jim said "Waiting for me to see whats next"? Its more like a cue to begin obedience and at that point nothing else matters. When you use the eye contact as the whole obedience, you can end up with a dog unsure of what to do other then look you in the eye for security.

Maybe that's not Newlie, but when people say that eye contact focus is the key to a dog not acting up, I don't agree with that exactly. The dog knowing it isn't allowed to act up and that it has something else to do when I tell him to is what I want. At some point in time, one way or another, they have to deal with it and behave.

Your always going to use some eye contact in obedience and training to communicate. I look mine in the eye when I praise, or maybe to push a little control before releasing, but the looking in the eye of itself isn't a goal. Does that make sense?


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Slamdunc said:


> SuperG,
> I'm not sure what your goal is with your dog. I still make Boomer who is 10 yrs old, sit and focus on me when I put his food bowl down. The dog is offering the behavior because I asked for it, not simply because he wants to eat. He knows he can eat when I am finished, that may be in 10 seconds or 10 minutes. It is simply obedience and impulse control. This is not about the food, it is about containing himself regardless of the situation. It may be for a toy when heeling, it may to keep his attention on me while I heel past another dog that is barking and growling at him. He is dominant and dog aggressive and will not look at another dog when I tell him to "watch me." I use this walking through crowds of thousands of people at a Nationally Televised football game for example. Boomer does not like strangers touching and will not allow a stranger to pet him. I simply say "Foos" and he focuses on my eyes, walks next to me and you can literally pour water over his head, and come up and grab his ears and he will not look away. That is the one time a stranger can safely touch him.
> 
> For what I do, it has significance. If the dog is in a highly driven, agitated or excited state, I can say "watch me" and get his 100% attention and direct to the task at hand. The food bowl is just one part of the consistency that I use. In sport heeling, I want 10 minutes of focus. Working on the street, I may have Boomer switch gears from apprehending a suspect to now sniffing the car for drugs. I may go from a covert building clear with the SWAT team and transitioning to searching the house for drugs for our narcotics unit. It is all about impulse control, capping and focus.
> ...


I love the idea of using the focus word for walking your dog past other dogs or stressful situation! I I'll deginitely use this with my next shepherd! Thanks for sharing this!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

SuperG said:


> Slam,
> 
> 
> It all makes sense....and from this thread, I have learned some things and will incorporate some tweaks going forward....thanks.
> ...


You can convey things by looking them in the eye. Anything from "You better knock it off" to "You're a good boy" Especially when it matches your body language, but its not the end product. Its kind of what you have once you take the leash off.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

newlie said:


> Thank for chiming in, Steve. Can you give me an example so I can make sure I understand?


Dang- the focus command seems perfect to get your dog past stressful situations! Please, I would also love it if you would explain further!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Slam,
> 
> 
> It all makes sense....and from this thread, I have learned some things and will incorporate some tweaks going forward....thanks.
> ...


I've wondered about that too.My dogs all seek out eye contact with me though.Maybe because they communicate mostly by body language and they are "reading"our facial expressions?Trying to communicate with a different species as we try to "read" them by their body signals?


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Steve Strom said:


> It may not seem like a big deal, but see where Jim said "Waiting for me to see whats next"? Its more like a cue to begin obedience and at that point nothing else matters. When you use the eye contact as the whole obedience, you can end up with a dog unsure of what to do other then look you in the eye for security.
> 
> Maybe that's not Newlie, but when people say that eye contact focus is the key to a dog not acting up, I don't agree with that exactly. The dog knowing it isn't allowed to act up and that it has something else to do when I tell him to is what I want. At some point in time, one way or another, they have to deal with it and behave.
> 
> Your always going to use some eye contact in obedience and training to communicate. I look mine in the eye when I praise, or maybe to push a little control before releasing, but the looking in the eye of itself isn't a goal. Does that make sense?


Yes, I think I see now what you are saying. You can't insist the dog focus on your eyes always as an end in itself.

Newlie stays close to me all the time and frequently glances at my face and eyes to check in with me. But as I say, he is distractible, particularly outside where there are so many other things to see. Sometimes, I may just ask him to focus, but more often it is to get his attention for the next step. For example, I might say "eyes" and when he locks eyes with me, I might say "wait" or "back up" or "sit" and after a minute or two, I will release him with "OK." And I somehow even feel that Newlie is more comfortable now because he is actually hearing me and knowing what I want him to do. Don't get me wrong, we are far from perfect. We need to increase out time and all of this goes a lot smoother right now in the house as opposed to outside, but it is a work in progress. As I say, I would love it if one day, he would focus on me to the exclusion of all else, including barking dogs. He is not always dog reactive, but I never can tell when he is going to take exception to one.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Steve Strom said:


> It may not seem like a big deal, but see where Jim said "Waiting for me to see whats next"? Its more like a cue to begin obedience and at that point nothing else matters. When you use the eye contact as the whole obedience, you can end up with a dog unsure of what to do other then look you in the eye for security.
> 
> *Maybe that's not Newlie, but when people say that eye contact focus is the key to a dog not acting up, I don't agree with that exactly. The dog knowing it isn't allowed to act up and that it has something else to do when I tell him to is what I want. At some point in time, one way or another, they have to deal with it and behave.*
> 
> Your always going to use some eye contact in obedience and training to communicate. I look mine in the eye when I praise, or maybe to push a little control before releasing, but the looking in the eye of itself isn't a goal. Does that make sense?


I have to agree with Steve and he makes a very good point. Eye contact is just the start, it does not control the dog. Obedience controls the dog and eye contact is just another part of the required obedience. Just like telling a dog to sit / stay. The sit and the stay are both required parts of the command and or exercise. Just staying is not correct if the dog downs and was told to sit. 

When I heel my dog past aggressive or reactive dogs, even other K-9's the focus on me does two things. First, it insures that my dog is focused on me and everything else in the world does not matter. Then the dog is ready to follow me and obey my commands. Secondly, it stops my dog from making eye contact with the other dog and stops him from reacting to the challenge of the "eye contact" from the other dog. The heeling is obedience and eye contact is part of the obedience component for that particular exercise. Steve and a few others can probably explain it a lot better and more succinctly than I can.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

SuperG and Dogma:

*Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperG View Post
Slam,


It all makes sense....and from this thread, I have learned some things and will incorporate some tweaks going forward....thanks.

I have tried my best to prompt people involved in this thread to answer a repeated question...what is so magical about the eyes ?? You finally gave an answer " Why focus on my eyes, because that is where my commands come from, my face. When the dog is focused on my face, I know he / she is engaged with me. " Since you finally supplied an answer, I'll now ask the obvious question. In the dog world, eye contact is significant and some of it bleeds over to the human/dog relationship. In the dog world, dogs staring at each other is confrontational and can be a catalyst for a rumble, granted our own dogs most likely understand this won't happen...but, is there the slightest potential that training your dog to stare at you is forcing the dog to submit in any way, shape or form? Does establishing eye contact with one's dog shape a dog's obedience in a manner that the dog is submitting itself to the handler, even if it is minimal ?

SuperG
I've wondered about that too.My dogs all seek out eye contact with me though.Maybe because they communicate mostly by body language and they are "reading"our facial expressions?Trying to communicate with a different species as we try to "read" them by their body signals?*

Ok, as humans we understand eye contact, dogs also understand eye contact. I know immediately when some one is staring Boomer down by his body language. With anyone else, eye contact is a serious challenge. He will rise to the occasion and be ready to accept that challenge. Just like any of us that have had a person stare at them. Whether on the street, in school or a bar. I get this at work on a fairly regular basis, guys staring me down that are about to get arrested or guys with that thousand mile stare. It is significant and you certainly need to take note of it. 

But, when my wife stares at me or looks into my eyes it is a completely different look (_usually_). It is a loving look, one of endearment. We can recognize that look as not challenging but warm, friendly and loving. 

Dogs primarily communicate by body language can see the difference as well. My dogs know that a look from me or eye contact, a smile, a laugh is all friendly. In the animal world, showing teeth can be aggressive, but in the human world a smile is friendly. Dogs can pick up on this and can tell the difference. Part of this is training and part is just the dog knowing how you act. 

Even my new dog already knows that eye contact is desirable and beneficial. A large part of my initial training was eye contact, focus, impulse control, capping and setting the rules. It is very simple and set some basic rules and conditions with out conflict. 

Super G, you asked if training in this manner would cause a dog to submit to it's handler? I would say no, because this is a very positive and happy exercise. I want my dogs to enjoy their work and be happy working with me. I want to communicate that to my dogs. When Boru sits and stares at me, he is petted and praised and he is happy. He is really learning to enjoy even the most basic tasks. He has had some rough handling prior to me getting him and that is part of how I got him. 

While my dogs respect me, I do not want them being submissive. I want them to enjoy working with me, there is a distinction.


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## A GSD and a Law Degree (Mar 15, 2016)

Thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. My 5 mo. old GSD puppy focuses on me a lot naturally ("Is this situation okay, Mom? Am I doing what I am supposed to be doing?"). I will definitely be teaching her to make eye contact with me using the "focus" or "watch me" command.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

A GSD and a Law Degree said:


> Thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. My 5 mo. old GSD puppy focuses on me a lot naturally ("Is this situation okay, Mom? Am I doing what I am supposed to be doing?"). I will definitely be teaching her to make eye contact with me using the "focus" or "watch me" command.


What you're describing is eye contact as a default behavior, and there is definitely nothing wrong with that! I train it both ways - as a default and also on cue. I want my dogs to look at me when I say "watch", but I don't want them to ONLY look at me when I ask them to, I want them to just naturally look to me in general. 

The food bowl on the floor situation that Slamdunc describes is a perfect example. I expect my dogs to sit and look at me while I put the bowls down, and then continue to watch until I release them to eat. I'm certainly not going to tell them to do so twice a day every single day for years and years and years.... After a certain amount of repetition they've simply learned that this is what it takes to makes dinner happen, and so they do it because, well, they want to EAT! I require polite behavior around food, and they are responsible for acting appropriately whether they've been instructed to do so or not. 

To me, that's the essence of any default behavior. It takes the responsibility off the human to always have to tell the dog what to do (which you will obviously be doing in any number of other situations), and puts it on the dog, in the same way that you expect a child to finish dinner before getting dessert or doing homework before getting to watch TV or play computer games or whatever. The kids know the drill and shouldn't need to be constantly reminded.

I reinforce natural eye contact by marking and rewarding when it's offered up (click/treat works well for this, but a verbal marker "yes!" is fine too), and then building it into as many circumstances as possible, so it becomes just another normal part of day to day life. I find that when I just stand there and wait, my dogs will automatically make eye contact with me, waiting for permission to do something. The "thing" they're waiting for (getting to eat, going out the door, coming in the door, jumping in or out of the car, taking the bully sticks I'm holding, playing tug or ball, etc.) becomes the reward, in place of food, but food is an easy way to start. 

And since you already have nice natural focus, simply name it by adding your verbal cue before marking and rewarding. Rinse, repeat.  Work up to duration and add distractions (separately at first).


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## Henricus (Jan 9, 2016)

I'm happy I started this. I got far more out of it than I thought I would.. 
I have a question about the bowl thing. When my pup sees I'm getting his kibble he starts jumping on everything around me. I can tell him to stop (most of the times pull him off and tell him to sit), but as soon as he hears the kibble again he gets "wild". When I put the food in his food bowl, then he quiets down and stares to the bowl - which was the behavior I asked of him when I got him 8 weeks ago. 
He sits and whines a little until I slowly put the bowl down, then he "attacks" it. He however doesn't take his eye of it, nothing I say will make him do it. Any tips? Or is this behavior normal for a pup his age (16 weeks).


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## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

Henricus said:


> I'm happy I started this. I got far more out of it than I thought I would..
> I have a question about the bowl thing. When my pup sees I'm getting his kibble he starts jumping on everything around me. I can tell him to stop (most of the times pull him off and tell him to sit), but as soon as he hears the kibble again he gets "wild". When I put the food in his food bowl, then he quiets down and stares to the bowl - which was the behavior I asked of him when I got him 8 weeks ago.
> He sits and whines a little until I slowly put the bowl down, then he "attacks" it. He however doesn't take his eye of it, nothing I say will make him do it. Any tips? Or is this behavior normal for a pup his age (16 weeks).


Do you release him before he attacks it? I'd use this to teach impulse control, my dog has to sit, wait, give focus, wait a little longer than I'll release him to eat. I back chained this behavior starting with the sit and wait and gradually building up to the getting the bowl out means go to my "eating mat" and sitting so I don't have to deal with any funny business at feeding time.


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

Henricus said:


> I'm happy I started this. I got far more out of it than I thought I would..
> I have a question about the bowl thing. When my pup sees I'm getting his kibble he starts jumping on everything around me. I can tell him to stop (most of the times pull him off and tell him to sit), but as soon as he hears the kibble again he gets "wild". When I put the food in his food bowl, then he quiets down and stares to the bowl - which was the behavior I asked of him when I got him 8 weeks ago.
> He sits and whines a little until I slowly put the bowl down, then he "attacks" it. He however doesn't take his eye of it, nothing I say will make him do it. Any tips? Or is this behavior normal for a pup his age (16 weeks).


This is what I did with my pups. My dogfood is kept in the utility room off the kitchen, I didn't want to be mobbed when getting the food so I don't allow them in the room with me. When they crossed the threshold from the kitchen I would stop what I was doing and use spatial pressure to put them back in the kitchen. (I would walk towards them and make them back up) Then I would go back to the dog food. It took several repetitions for it to sink in that they wouldn't get fed if they didn't stay in the kitchen but it works. My older dog helped my last pup pick it up quicker.

If your food is where you feed him Gaia's idea of a feeding mat would work well. Teach him to stay on the mat while you are preparing his meal. He comes off the mat, stop what you are doing and walk him back. He just needs to learn what behavior is expected.

As far as staring at the bowl instead of giving you eye contact, he just knows that is where the food is. Work on focus with him, he will learn that eye contact is what gets him his rewards. Try putting the bowl behind your back when asking for focus, the distraction of dinner might be too much for him right now. 

I have taught eye contact so well that my boys use it like the Jedi mind trick, trying to make me give them one more treat, or throw the ball one more time


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

This is a helpful thread I do think it is cute when they are focusing on you and some time has passed and then they take a steady quick glance at the dog bowl, or ball, stick,or treat in your hand then right back into your eyes as if to nonchalantly remind you of the payout.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Henricus said:


> I have a question about the bowl thing. When my pup sees I'm getting his kibble he starts jumping on everything around me. I can tell him to stop (most of the times pull him off and tell him to sit), but as soon as he hears the kibble again he gets "wild".


What I would do in this situation is to simply wait him out. If he starts jumping around, don't tell him to stop. Don't look at him. Don't do anything - just stand there and stare at the ceiling or the wall. The second he stops jumping, you begin to move again. Think of it as a game of red light/green light. 

At first this may take awhile, but I assure you that he will soon figure out that being calm is the behavior that works, and that jumping around and acting wild will delay dinner. Attention is reinforcing, so if you're looking at him and telling him to stop jumping, you're rewarding him (and his behavior!) with your attention. Tune him out instead.



> When I put the food in his food bowl, then he quiets down and stares to the bowl - which was the behavior I asked of him when I got him 8 weeks ago.


Again - wait him out. At some point he's going to get tired of staring at the food bowl while you stand there and do nothing. The SECOND he glances at you, you can start to put the bowl on the floor. 



> He sits and whines a little until I slowly put the bowl down, then he "attacks" it. He however doesn't take his eye of it, nothing I say will make him do it. Any tips? Or is this behavior normal for a pup his age (16 weeks).


It's more about what you've trained (both includes intentionally and unintentionally) than about what's "normal" for a particular age. A young puppy can be taught to behave politely around food, but it's not likely that behavior will occur without any training. In this picture, Halo is 14 weeks old, holding her sit and giving my husband eye contact, waiting for him to release her to eat. At this point, she is far enough away from the bowl and he's close enough that he can quickly pick it up if necessary.










What I did to train this is to start very easy. She only had to remain in a sit until I set down the bowl - I released her the second it touched the floor. Then I had to remove my hands before I released her, then I had to stand up again, then I had to be able to take a step or two away from the bowl. I worked up to all of this slowly, as she had mastered the previous step. If she broke her sit, I picked up the bowl and waited for her to sit again. Gradually, the bowl got closer to her and further from me. 

Keefer is a little older here, almost 5 months old, and the picture is crappy, but you can see that he's closed inside the garage pen with his food bowl while I'm outside the gate. The only thing keeping him from diving on that food is training.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> simply wait him out. If he starts jumping around, don't tell him to stop. Don't look at him. Don't do anything - just stand there and stare at the ceiling or the wall. The second he stops jumping, you begin to move again."



Essentially the same method I used for other times when the pup couldn't keep her crap together. Feeding time was easy as everything over a food bowl is easy. I used the above method in the beginning when I would go to the front closet and get my shoes/boots/jacket out...pup would lose it because it meant a training/play session in the backyard was imminent. The part of the quote above which makes me laugh ( mostly at myself ) is " simply wait him out"...well that's easier said than done...especially for me....patience would not be one of my strong points. I'm guessing in the beginning it took me 15 minutes to just get my shoes on as my pup just couldn't contain herself but she did learn...and in the process I learned a new level of patience, so I guess it was a win/win. I will say a benefit from this process besides the obvious elimination of her jackass uber-hyper antics coupled with her ear piercing sounds which I did not think a pup could make was....the engagement created while she would watch and wait while the shoes and jacket went on was almost scary.


SuperG


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## Henricus (Jan 9, 2016)

I'll be sure to read this a few times through. I think I made some progress yesterday, or at least, I saw it could be done a bit different. Patience is definitely the key, and mine is really selective. Got to work on that.  
Again, thank you all! I think many will profit from this thread.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Henricus said:


> I'll be sure to read this a few times through. I think I made some progress yesterday, or at least, I saw it could be done a bit different. Patience is definitely the key, and mine is really selective. Got to work on that.
> Again, thank you all! I think many will profit from this thread.


I'm just curious about something.....can you currently get your pup to sit and give you a wait of any duration ?

SuperG


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## Henricus (Jan 9, 2016)

SuperG said:


> I'm just curious about something.....can you currently get your pup to sit and give you a wait of any duration ?
> 
> SuperG


Yes, I can get him to wait a bit. Although much is depended on the situation. I can generally (indoors, haven't tried outdoors yet) get him to sit and stay for some seconds. I can walk about 4 meters (13ft) back while staring at him, wait a few seconds, and then walk back and give him a treat. 
He doesn't stay put when he's overexcited. For exemple, I managed to get him to sit and wait while I weigh his kibble and place it in his bowl. He just whines very softly. From the moment I pick his bowl from the table he starts to get excited and sits very agitated in front of the place I will lower his bowl to. From that moment on it's almost impossible to get his attention, he just whines. I only lower it if he looks at me, but he never looks longer than a millisecond..


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