# Swallowed large bone



## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

Hello all,

My wife is freaking out and pissed at me. We switched our 14 week old puppy over to barf last week. Everything has been fine so far. 

Tonight I was letting her chew a raw bone from a pork chop. The bone was approx 5 inches long and tapers from 3/4 to 1/2 inch wide. I figured she would just chew and pull meat off the bone. 

She was chomping and chewing and then she swallowed the entire bone whole before I could stop her. 

It's been about 30 minutes and she is breathing fine and is sleeping atm. 

I feel like a real idiot and hoping this doesn't cost me a small fortune or my dog health problems. 

Or it could be a simple overreaction but I don't see how this bone can go out the rear end. 

Should I head to the emergency vet right now or just wait it out. 
This is my 7 the gsd but first time barf and first puppy in 19 years. 

Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated. If I can get my wife calmed down that would be a bonus. 

Thanks, 
CC


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## Kari01 (Sep 7, 2018)

Personally, I would call my vet, this could be very bad. I would get an x-ray and you might need surgery. It probably might still be sitting in her stomach, it may not be able to pass or will cause damage if it does. Follow your vets advice, they should be able to get you in today if they are decent.

I don't let my puppy have anything size wise that he could swallow, he once swallowed a whole 5" of bully stick. There was blood getting that out and it was semi-soft by that point.... I think a bone could do a lot of damage. I'd stick to beef knuckle bones for chewing and small edible chicken bones only for feeding, personally. 

I also don't think feeding raw pork in general is recommended for dogs, unless you freeze it for weeks first? Same with certain raw fish / raw salmon, because of the potential of certain parasites in those products that can infect dogs, as far as I know. I might be wrong, but I always err on the side of caution.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I would take your dog to the vet, all bones can cause problems, not just cooked. 









Give the dog a bone? Vets warn pet owners not to do it


For generations of pet owners feeding bones to their dogs has seemed as natural and healthy as letting them run free across fields and meadows.




www.telegraph.co.uk


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

My vet opens at and I will be on the phone with them as I drive over. 

She ate the bone at 7:30 last night. At 6 this morning she attempted to vomit 7 times over 10 minutes and only got some white foam up. She is sleeping now. 

I'm hoping the vet can go in from the front and pull it out the way it went in.


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

Vet opens at 8


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Calicontractor said:


> My vet opens at and I will be on the phone with them as I drive over.
> 
> She ate the bone at 7:30 last night. At 6 this morning she attempted to vomit 7 times over 10 minutes and only got some white foam up. She is sleeping now.
> 
> I'm hoping the vet can go in from the front and pull it out the way it went in.


I hope she's going to be ok. My best advise would be to stop all this BARF & bones, put her on a good food from the vet.


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

Bones from chops are far too small for a dog to chew on.

Best to offer larger bones that are covered in meat, no bare bones and no weight-bearing bones such as beef knucklebones.

I would suggest you read Raw Meaty Bones by Dr Tom Lonsdale.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

And this is why I don't feed BARF...

Just ask a vet...ANY vet...how many bones they have had to remove from dog's digestive systems. It's one of the most common PREVENTABLE problems that vets have to treat. And yes, dogs can and do die from this.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Sunsilver said:


> And this is why I don't feed BARF...
> 
> Just ask a vet...ANY vet...how many bones they have had to remove from dog's digestive systems. It's one of the most common PREVENTABLE problems that vets have to treat. And yes, dogs can and do die from this.


Not to mention that this is a puppy who needs the proper nutrition and the bacteria/parasites that can make them very sick from raw meat. Scientists criticise trend for raw meat pet food after analysis finds pathogens


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

Just for the record I never intended for her to eat the bone. 

After this sleepless night and cost, she's back on kibble. She has only been on raw for a week.


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## Zipra (Dec 19, 2019)

I don’t understand all these people who are telling you to switch to kibble because it’s “ better”? Kibble is so full of preservatives and fillers but okay . I hope she’s feeling better !


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## Blu_and_Redd (Oct 7, 2019)

Please update us on how your pup is doing...


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I hope your pup is ok and doesn't require surgery. To fed or not to feed barf diet is individual. That said if you should want or need to continue to feed a barf diet you can do so without feeding actual whole bone. My girl is raw fed but due to dietary restrictions can't have digestible bones from common proteins (food allergies). I use bone meal powder to provide the calcium that comes from the bones. So for the naysayers of the barf diet for bone risks there is a workable solution. There are also many premade raw formulas on the market that contain ground bone or clacuim/phosophorus additives. 
Again hope your pup is ok. Let us know how it goes at the vet.


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

Bone is stuck in esophagus. Worst case scenario. If they can't get the bone out through endoscopy I'm looking at 6k on top of the 2 k I've already spent.

My heart is breaking. If they can't get the bone out without puncturing the esophagus, she is getting out down.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Calicontractor said:


> Bone is stuck in esophagus. Worst case scenario. If they can't get the bone out through endoscopy I'm looking at 6k on top of the 2 k I've already spent.
> 
> My heart is breaking. If they can't get the bone out without puncturing the esophagus, she is getting out down.


So sorry to hear this. Sending healing thoughts and prayers for a positive outcome.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Oh no! So sorry. I was hoping to hear something better. Praying they can get it out without puncturing anything.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Calicontractor said:


> Bone is stuck in esophagus. Worst case scenario. If they can't get the bone out through endoscopy I'm looking at 6k on top of the 2 k I've already spent.
> 
> My heart is breaking. If they can't get the bone out without puncturing the esophagus, she is getting out down.


I'm so sorry, praying she will pull through.

Don't beat yourself up too much, it was a mistake, we've all made them


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Zipra said:


> I don’t understand all these people who are telling you to switch to kibble because it’s “ better”? Kibble is so full of preservatives and fillers but okay . I hope she’s feeling better !


It's really not hard to understand at all, raw meat contains harmful bacteria & parasites. 

Raw diets have been pushed on here forever and people can make their own decisions. But what's unforgivable is that the risks of a raw meat diet is always brushed under the rug.



https://vet.tufts.edu/wp-content/uploads/raw_meat_diets_memo.pdf


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Calicontractor said:


> Bone is stuck in esophagus. Worst case scenario. If they can't get the bone out through endoscopy I'm looking at 6k on top of the 2 k I've already spent.
> 
> My heart is breaking. If they can't get the bone out without puncturing the esophagus, she is getting out down.


Sorry, I hope she's ok. Obstructions don't just come from bones. It can happen with kongs, nylabones, greenies, just about anything they chew on. Soft, cottony materials can be really bad. I understand feeling guilty any time something happens with them, so for now I wouldn't say anything but good luck.


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## Kari01 (Sep 7, 2018)

I'm so sorry, the worry must be unbearable  Don't beat yourself up, accidents happen!! I'm praying she makes it through!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I"m so very sorry this is happening. Obstructions can come from anything. A friend had to have a bully stick surgically removed. Another lost a dog because of a sock. Dogs get into garbage and eat bones or other things. I've literally pulled a skineez out of Faren's throat as she was swallowing it. This shouldn't be a raw diet vs kibble debate. Obstructions can happen from anything. Our thoughts are with you.


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

I'm gutted for you, I hope everything will be successful.

Dogs can choke on anything, not just bones, so don't blame yourself.



Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

This is horrible..... I am so sorry this is happening to you. It was a mistake, learn from it. I am sending thoughts to you and your dog, hopefully your dog pulls through


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

Well great news, Sasha is going to be ok. The bone came out to easier then expected. They even refunded me 230 dollars. 

Sasha will never touch a bone the rest of her days. Not only was this bone 5 inches long but it was bowed like a rainbow, I still can picture here sucking this bone down whole, but she did. 

I'll still feed her fresh meat but I'll cook it and do maybe 50 percent fresh, 50 percent kibble. 

Thanks for the warm thoughts and wishes. 

If any one happens to come across this because your puppy or dog did something similar, just go to the vet asap. 

While I was there another dog was being admitted for a blockage. Seems more common then you would think. 

Thanks,
CC


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Calicontractor said:


> Well great news, Sasha is going to be ok. The bone came out to easier then expected. They even refunded me 230 dollars.
> 
> Sasha will never touch a bone the rest of her days. Not only was this bone 5 inches long but it was bowed like a rainbow, I still can picture here sucking this bone down whole, but she did.
> 
> ...


I'm glad she's fine, but if I was you I'd just feed her a premium food for the time being while you study a little more about raw diets. Adding some cooked meat is more like a treat and you have to be careful about the fat, but I don't think there's a great benefit diet wise to adding it to a kibble.


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## Kari01 (Sep 7, 2018)

Glad to hear the good news


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

So glad to hear everything turned out okay! WHEW!!


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

Oh my that's a HUGE RELIEF! Thank Goodness.......


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

Just my 2 cents, maybe it's a good time to have her on pet insurance? Since she is still young


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

You know I never considered pet insurance, I think I'll look into it. I've lost 3 rescues over the years to hermangiasarcoma. 

The reason I considered raw diet, it just seems better. I equate kibble to McDonald's, yeah it's convenient but not that great either. 
We had her on blue Buffalo large bread puppy and her poops got worse every day. 

Put her on grain free and it helped but her coat felt literally like steel wool, she's a long coat. In a week of raw her poop totally firmed up and her coat is silky smooth. 

I'm definitely willing to spend for premium kibble but even that honestly is going to lack compared to fresh made. Seriously conflicted on her food as I want to provide the best life possible for her. The current kibble I have for her is blue buffalo freedom large breed puppy. 

Our current dog eats taste of the wild and is fairly healthy at 11.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Calicontractor said:


> You know I never considered pet insurance, I think I'll look into it. I've lost 3 rescues over the years to hermangiasarcoma.
> 
> The reason I considered raw diet, it just seems better. I equate kibble to McDonald's, yeah it's convenient but not that great either.
> We had her on blue Buffalo large bread puppy and her poops got worse every day.
> ...


I'm not saying not to feed raw, I feed my dog raw, and I agree its healthier then any processed foods. With a puppy though, if you're going to I'm more comfortable using one of the commercial balanced diets then your own put together. Is that what you're doing? I might have missed something and was thinking you were feeding what you had put together?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I’m happy your dog will be alright. Grain free is only necessary if your dog can’t tolerate grains. If they don’t need it, don’t give it as there have been studies that indicate a grain free kibble can cause Taurine deficient cardio Myopathy. Someone posted here last year that they lost a young puppy due to swallowing a whole cooked bone. You are very lucky they saved her, but please don’t feed her cooked bones. I wasn’t sure if you were considering that or not. Raw and cooked food are very different and the nutrients change when you cook food. I use Honest Kitchen which isn’t raw but is significantly better than kibble. One dog has allergies and can only eat a prescription diet, which is kibble.

Older dogs can tolerate large bones if they don’t swallow them whole, but I don’t give bones. I am worried they will swallow big pieces or break off sharp pieces and swallow those,


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

I know cooked bones are bad. I wouldn't feed her cooked bones. This whole incident was an accident as she was never meant to eat the bone, it's not the reason she got it. I just underestimated her ability to chime it down.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Glad to hear all went well........

One way around the swallowing bones dilemma besides buying premade raw is buying a meat grinder.....the one I bought from Northern Tool handles chicken and turkey bones no problem.....granted I have to use a meat cleaver to downsize the carcass and larger pieces to make the chunks fit the feed tube.

There is also companies which sell appropriate bone meal to add to a raw diet as well.

Best of luck to you and I'm happy for you that you have your bud back in good shape.


SuperG


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

Steve, 
She was only in raw a week. I put her meals together based on a bunch of different sites I read. I can post or send you a private message and you can see what I was doing. 

I think for the short term, until she is an adult I'll feed her quality kibble. Was crazy how fast her poop got better and her coat


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm so happy to hear Sasha is going to be fine. What a huge relief.


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)




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## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

It sounds like a long 24 hours for everyone involved. Glad things worked out.

I must admit that I took another walk around the house and put away any choking hazards on shelves lower than five feet. These pups are remarkably fast when they want to be.


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## Petra's Dad (Jan 6, 2020)

Wow... What a suspenseful thread... Glad to hear it worked out okay for you  Very cute puppy by the way!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Wow! She is pretty! And you got snow too!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Been following your thread. SO happy to hear she made it! What a beautiful little girl!

I feed raw and thought you may want some alternatives to be able to stay away from kibble.

These are not cheap to feed, but here are a few ideas:

*The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated Food*(not kibble)*: LOVE *is appropriate for puppies*: *Dehydrated - Grain Free Beef Recipe (Love) Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 35 pounds of food, but you feed more than kibble because it is real food.
The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated food is 100% Human Food and is the only pet food in the USA that the FDA legally allows to use the words “Human Food” on their advertising and packaging. The Honest Kitchen blends their foods in a human facility that also makes bakery mixes and breakfast cereals. For this reason, they need to abide by the same strict standards for record-keeping, safety and cleanliness that all human foods must meet. The company qualifies for the label of *human grade dog food* according to the FDA regulations, because they meet all the required standards.

The following are all COMPLETE & BALANCED - RAW foods. Your choice depends on what specifics (such as organic, manufacturing practices =HACCP, GMP, or Anti-Pathogen Treatment=HPP, ect.,) are important to you AND the price per pound. 
There are even more expensive products out there.

*Bravo:* Discover Balance Raw Diet | Beef Frozen Raw Dog Food Diet - Bravo Pet Food Find a store: Find a Bravo Retailer - Bravo Pet Food NOTE Feeding Guide Tab on the page.

*Northwest Naturals: Chubs | Northwest Naturals *Find a store: Store Locator | Northwest Naturals

*Primal: Raw Frozen Canine Beef Formula *Find a store: Primal Pet Foods: Store Locator 

*Stella & Chewys: * Stella’s Super Beef Frozen Raw Dinner Patties - Stella & Chewy's Pet Food Pet Food Store Locator | Stella & Chewy's
Stella & Chewy is HPP (which some raw feeders do not agree with)

Best of luck with whatever you decide!!!


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Awww, what a cutie!

Just so you know, I've fed all my GSDs high quality kibble, and the only one that didn't make it to 14 years of age had been starved nearly to death before I got her as a rescue. My oldest dog just turned 13 and is in excellent health for her age, and still likes to chase down balls.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Calicontractor said:


> Steve,
> She was only in raw a week. I put her meals together based on a bunch of different sites I read. I can post or send you a private message and you can see what I was doing.
> 
> I think for the short term, until she is an adult I'll feed her quality kibble. Was crazy how fast her poop got better and her coat


One thing to think about with switching to raw from kibble is you generally would add ingredients one at a time when you're putting it together. That can take weeks and thats a problem for a growing puppy. Diet is something that can be really specific to an individual dog. Some dogs live a good life on Ol Roy. Some dogs will not do well on raw. I'm comfortable with a commercial balanced diet and I've found it to be very digestible with the puppies I've fed. Some time after 6mos, I'm ok with building a diet for them. When I've switched mature dogs, I'll use some of the dehydrated foods to begin. 

Basically what I'm saying is I wouldn't experiment with a young pup and no experience with a raw diet. If you have a problem you're going to find out real fast just how little help you can find from vets because they really don't study nutrition very much. The general answers even if they contact one of the colleges is probably going to fall back on a petfood funded study that says give them some Science Diet or Purina.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Too true, Steve! When I took Star to the vet for her 48 hour checkup, after bringing her from the breeder, the vet handed me a free bag of Science Diet puppy food. I took one glance at the label and handed it back. The #1 ingredient was CORN MEAL! ? 

SD has improved since then, but I still wouldn't feed it, unless I had no other choice. And the vet would still have to do one heck of a sales job to convince me it was necessary!


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

Another day, another problem. 

Yesterday after the vet she had this nasty greenish, yellow mucus type poop more like pudding. Did this about 6 times with each one smaller. 

This morning she had a normal poop. Just now she made a small soft serve poop and went crazy. 

Crying running around licking her butt. I figure she had a piece of grass sticking out. Wrong about half way around her butthole she has what appears to be about a 1/4 inch prolapse. Vet appointment tomorrow but says it will probably heal itself. Said to put her on brown rice and shredded chicken.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Calicontractor said:


> Another day, another problem.
> 
> Yesterday after the vet she had this nasty greenish, yellow mucus type poop more like pudding. Did this about 6 times with each one smaller.
> 
> ...


Oh NOOOOOO!

Poor Baby!!!!!

Poor You!

Update us when you can.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

How awful. Here I was reading the good news and it's not so good anymore. I hope this will clear up quickly and she will have no more pain.

She's totally adorable and I hope this is the last of any problems for her.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Poor girl! I wonder if there's a piece of bone stuck in her rectum? She might have broken a small piece off the rib bone she swallowed!


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

They did 2 x-rays yesterday. One was the back half to front shoulder. The other was the front half to just just past the stomach. The only thing that showed up anywhere was the bone in her esophagus.


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## Zipra (Dec 19, 2019)

Heidigsd said:


> It's really not hard to understand at all, raw meat contains harmful bacteria & parasites.
> 
> Raw diets have been pushed on here forever and people can make their own decisions. But what's unforgivable is that the risks of a raw meat diet is always brushed under the rug.
> 
> ...


all of this “ research” was done in 2012 this article was posted in 2012. It’s filled with buzz words and no actual reasoning other then “ this is different from other dogs” or my absolute favorite “ more research is needed “ this article is just a fear mongering article with no actual research to back it up. And no actual sources to back what “ facts” and “ myths” they are talking about .


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Zipra said:


> all of this “ research” was done in 2012 this article was posted in 2012. It’s filled with buzz words and no actual reasoning other then “ this is different from other dogs” or my absolute favorite “ more research is needed “ this article is just a fear mongering article with no actual research to back it up. And no actual sources to back what “ facts” and “ myths” they are talking about .


Some people just never get tired of embarrassing themselves, it's my absolute favorite...so much fun!

The article is from 2012...so what? People with "common sense" don't need any studies to know what this article listed is true to begin with! 

It's really a shame that people like you are allowed to post your often dangerous & uneducated opinions without any facts to back it up. 

This article was written by veterinarians from Tufts-Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, you may have heard of it? _*What's your background in veterinary medicine, we would love to know! *_

1. *Lisa M. Freeman, DVM, PhD, DACVN* completed her DVM degree at Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine and received a PhD in Nutrition from Tufts FriedmanSchool of Nutrition Science and Policy. After a residency in Clinical Nutrition, she was board-certified by the American College of Veterinary Nutrition. 

2. *Cailin R. Heinze, VMD, MS, DACVN *earned her VMD degree from the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine. After veterinary school, she worked in private practice for three years before pursuing a residency in clinical nutrition at the University of Califor-nia, Davis. While at Davis, Dr. Heinze earned a Master’s degree in Nutritional Biology. She is currently is an Assistant Professor of Nutrition at Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

My take on raw diets:

Studies have shown that domestic dogs are much better at digesting carbohydrates than wolves are. As dogs evolved eating the leftovers from our midden heaps, that makes perfect sense. They didn't just go after the meaty bones and offal, they also went after the starchy things like bread and starchy vegetables like corn and squash. A raw meat and bones diet is NOT necessary for dogs to be in good health.

If you compare a wolf's skull with that of a dog of similar build, e.g., a German shepherd, you will see the wolf's teeth are much bigger and the bones of the skull much stronger to stand up to the forces of crunching bones. This is why many dogs break teeth when chewing on bones, and require expensive dental work. I have an e-friend who had to pay $3000 to get her dog's teeth fixed after it damaged them by chewing on bones.

Bones frequently get stuck in the digestive system: in the teeth, throat, stomach and bowels. If the dog is lucky, the bone can pass on its own. If it's unlucky, major surgery will be required. If the bone punctures the gut, the dog can die. This goes for cats, too. We nearly lost our cat after he decided to eat a bird he'd captured, and one of the bones pierced his bowel. He survived, but he was very, very sick.

I worked for a vet for awhile, and saw firsthand a dog admitted with a bone in its G.I. tract. With lots of doses of different medications to help it along, and numereous x-rays, the bone did eventually pass. The vet bill was over $1,000 and THIS WAS IN THE 1970's!! It all could have been avoided if the dog hadn't been allowed access to bones in the first place.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Heidigsd said:


> Some people just never get tired of embarrassing themselves, it's my absolute favorite...so much fun!
> 
> The article is from 2012...so what? People with "common sense" don't need any studies to know what this article listed is true to begin with!
> 
> ...


I wouldn't be so dismissive and insulting about it. I think the date is very relevant. Since 2012 raw food has grown into a huge industry with no growth in health problems other then the people who try it themselves and create a poor diet. As far as studies, there seems to be more done in Europe, but here's links to stories that will direct you to studies that conflict with the pro-processed studies. 





Raw Proof -







honeysrealdogfood.com












They Let Cats and Dogs Pick Their Food and This Is What They Chose


Many experts in the field of veterinary nutrition refuse to endorse raw pet food, citing lack of studies on their effectiveness. Fortunately, some research is underway.




healthypets.mercola.com












Raw Proof: New Research On Species-Appropriate Diets


Can raw food provide everything your dog needs to thrive? New research on species-appropriate diets answers that question.




www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Steve Strom said:


> I wouldn't be so dismissive and insulting about it. I think the date is very relevant. Since 2012 raw food has grown into a huge industry with no growth in health problems other then the people who try it themselves and create a poor diet. As far as studies, there seems to be more done in Europe, but here's links to stories that will direct you to studies that conflict with the pro-processed studies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Insulting? I will dismiss any post from people that do nothing but post their uneducated opinion on here. It's been going on for far too long. At least admit the dangers of a raw meat diet and let people make up their own minds. People on this board have been bashing veterinarians for many, many years and glorified raw feeding.

I don't consider Dogs Naturally Magazine & Mercola credible sources of information.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I didn't say they were the source of the information, only that they can direct you to other studies with enough egg heads to satisfy you.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Steve Strom said:


> I didn't say they were the source of the information, only that they can direct you to other studies with enough egg heads to satisfy you.


Now who's being insulting? Have a nice day!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Thats not insulting. You demanded credentials. I don't put the same value on them as you.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Steve Strom said:


> Thats not insulting. You demanded credentials. I don't put the same value on them as you.


You can do what you want, I honestly don't care, but I will continue to call out people on this board who give out bad advise.

There are plenty of doctors, most on the alternative medicine side, who's opinion I don't value a whole lot. We can all make our own choices!!!









9 Reasons to Completely Ignore Joseph Mercola


Some of our more astute readers may have noticed that we are paying influenza slightly more attention than other topics of late. That’s because this situation is new, rapidly changing, and covers



sciencebasedmedicine.org












Dr. Joseph Mercola Ordered to Stop Illegal Claims | Quackwatch


Joseph Mercola, D.O., who practiced for many years in Schaumburg, Illinois, now operates one of the Internet's largest and most trafficked health information sites. Since 2012, Mercola has stated that his site has over 300,000 pages and is visited by "millions of people each day" ...




www.quackwatch.org








__





Dr. Karen Becker Offers Some Classic Veterinary Detox Quackery |






skeptvet.com


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Calicontractor said:


> Another day, another problem.
> 
> Yesterday after the vet she had this nasty greenish, yellow mucus type poop more like pudding. Did this about 6 times with each one smaller.
> 
> ...


Prolapse from straining?


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

Guys I didn't start this thread to have a fight between barf and kibble. In the 5 days Sasha was on raw she was amazing, normal poop, hair turned from steel wool to silky soft. I can, in the short time she was on it see why someone would gravitate to it. 

I started her on the barf because she was having soft serve poops over a few different brands of food. 

I remembered when I picked Sasha up from the breeder she gave me a baggie with 5 white pills and she said it was for nervous belly. No direction like give one a day until gone, just if her poop isn't right give her one. 

I forgot I had one left, I found it by chance actually this morning and I remembered. The pill is this Metronidazole. I don't know what it is but a Google search shows it as an antibiotic. I'm not going to throw the breeder under the bus yet but I question why she was on antibiotics. We have been fighting loose stools since about two days after we picked her up. 

I only did raw in search of a solution to the loose stools. Sasha is at the vet and they have a stool sample to test.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Sorry bout that Calicontractor. I hope she's ok and you get it all worked out with her diet.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you choose to go back to a raw diet, I really like K9 Kravings. It's affordable and my dogs have done really well. I do think it's mostly in the mid atlantic region. You'll have to go directly to their website to find a distributor. 

As far as homemade, you can get a grinder for bones or buy bone meal to balance the diet. When I feed bone, they are never more than neck bones (from a good human grade source so the thyroid gland is not on it) or chicken. I would never, ever, feed a large animal bone. The only thing other than poultry I feed is lamb necks. However, I never feed a growing dog a homemade diet. 

Metro is commonly used to stop diarrhea. Call your vet but I doubt there will be an issue with giving it.


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

This is what her butt looked like last night. 

It is significantly better then when it happened. When it happened it was about half the circumference of her butt and looked like someone chewed up a stick of gum and then stuck it on her but. The brown is dried poop.


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

Sorry guys not sure why it double posts pictures, I'm only hitting submit once


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

Right now she is on this food. Would a switch to Fromm large breed puppy or orjen be a worthwhile switch?


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## Blu_and_Redd (Oct 7, 2019)

Glad your pup is better.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Depending on what the vet finds and says, I probably wouldn't bother switching again. At 14 weeks she's already been fed a few different brands and raw. That could be adding to any other problem she may have. No matter what, her gut probably needs some time to settle.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Personally, I like the Victor brand food. But if she is having stomach issues, find a food that works for her. I would not switch food right now. Let her heal.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

@Calicontractor as I'm sure you are noticing Barf, prey model raw, premade raw, home cooked, kibble, grain free kibble, which kibble, all of the above when it comes to diet are passionate topics here.
My take on it is it's your dog and your choice to make what to feed your dog based on your own research and the heath of the dog in front of you. There are so many discussions here on what is the "best" food and no one will agree with every suggestion.
Sure I raw feed. After hundreds of hours of research I made that choice. Even with that choice my dogs diet has evolved over time. Trial and error to find what works for my dog. Can I say everyone in the know would say her diet is perfect...I highly doubt it but I'm dealing with "my dog" and her many digestive health/skin issues. Her vets however say she is doing well considering where we started. I also offer as a free feed a limited ingredient kibble because sometimes she just wants the kibble. It's actually not even a great kibble by most standards but it's also the only kibble on the market that she tolerates well given all her food allergies. She likes it and it doesn't give her poop issues so we go with it. Yet she won't eat it as her only food source thus the raw as well.
There are so many choices out there it can be like walking through a minefield trying to get to the other side from bad to good for your dog.

If you still want to feed raw there are a host of good choices that are balanced and don't contain whole bone. Some have ground bone, some have bone meal powder added. I've done both. For my dog even ground bone was an issue over time (vomiting) so we moved on to bone meal powder. It's an evolution.

If you decide not to continue with raw that's ok too. There are so many kibbles on the market. What works for one won't for another. I can say as a puppy my dog absolutely loved Blue Buffalo kibble. She always scarfed it down like it was her last meal. Then she had liquid poops all day but that was my dog. We tried Orijen too. She loved it for about a week and then not so much and still didn't have good poops. We tried at least 6 different kibble over more than a years time with absolutely no success.

Sure by now you are getting the point I'm trying to make. Do your research (a lot of research) on different diets and how to ensure it is a balanced diet. Make your choice, watch your dogs health and make changes if needed. Remember that aside from emergencies like you are having now all diet changes like changing kibble brands should be done gradually over time to avoid GI upset. This is a proven technique.

The thing about the internet and forums like this one is everyone has an opinion on what is best. But by who's standard is that opinion? Theirs! Everyone here want's to help with questions and I like to think we do help if by no other standard then we share our own anecdotal experiences to help answer the questions asked. Many offer up links to topic research by experts and other sources. Some experts are respected others are not. The choice is yours and yours alone to disseminate the information and make the choices that you are comfortable with and can live with.

So what is the best diet for your pup. I have no idea but I'm confident you will take what you have already learned and will continue to learn to come up with what works for your dog.

Thank you for reading my long soap box post. I wish for you to find what works for your pup for a long, happy and healthy life. It's a journey...harder for some than others.


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

The choice to feed raw or kibble is up to the owner of the dog and no one else.

Feed what you are comfortable in giving to your dog, providing they are getting the proper nutrients needed.

For the record, I have been prey model raw feeding for over 20 years and have never had a problem, the reason is that I researched a lot before I decided to move away from kibble.

I wish you and your pooch all the best, no matter what you decide to feed.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

So just got back from the vet. Her tiny prolapse healed itself overnight. Vet says it's irritated and she will probably mess with it but in the end it should be an issue.

She is on 7 days of Metronidazole twice a day, every 12 hours. The vet doesn't want her on any chicken, not sure I agree here but she is the pro. When she was eating raw chicken she had the best poop since we had her, so I'll go with it for now. 

Sasha is 3 months old and only weighs 21 pounds. Vet wants me to give 2 cups of kibble 3 times a day. Seems a little much to me but I'm not a vet. 

Vet also wants me to discontinue the current kibble due to the chicken


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Calcitor, that certainly doesn't look too bad (the photos)! Glad she is better!

Since metronidazole is an antibiotic, of course it shouldn't be given just one pill at a time when her poop is soft - she needs to be given a full course of the drug, or you are just setting her up for worse problems, because the organisms become immune to the drug. Just sayin' - you probably know this already...

Metronidazole is also effective against certain parasites such as giardia.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Sensitivity to chicken is one of the most frequent problems that dogs have. My older dog gets very itchy when she's on a chicken based kibble. I've been told it's because chickens are fed so many antibiotics and hormones and other stuff to make them grow fast. That may be the reason for the vet saying 'no chicken'. 

Glad she's doing the right thing with the metro prescription!

And yeah, that's a LOT of food! My adult GSDs get only 2 cups kibble twice a day! 

Adolescent GSDs often go through a 'hollow leg' stage where they can eat as much as they want, and still look rather skinny, so don't stress over it. If she won't finish the food, just remove it after 15 minutes.


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

It looks like my best close option for kibble is earthborn holistic, probably the venture Pollock and pumpkin


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Hormones have not been allowed in poultry since the 1950s. 70 years. I doubt very many people on this board have eaten chicken with hormones in them.

If abx is given to ANY animal, the medicine must have cleared their system prior to being butchered. They actually test for these things. That includes dairy cows. They have to dump the milk from that cow.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Apologies for not doing my homework, Jax, but the fact remains chicken sensitivity is very common in dogs, whatever the cause is.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That is not a fact per the veterinarians that do allergy testing. Veterinarians will tell you food allergies are actually rare and most are environmental. It is an opinion spread on internet with zero scientific backing stated with confidence by people who have googled so it must be fact. Sorry, not sorry. That crap infuriates me. I spent years screwing around with "a chicken allergy" when it was environmental because I believe keyboard warriors. Been there, drank that Kool-aid and my dog paid the price.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Not going to


Calicontractor said:


> So just got back from the vet. Her tiny prolapse healed itself overnight. Vet says it's irritated and she will probably mess with it but in the end



Not going to argue the reason behind avoiding chicken with you or your vet. At this point it won't hurt your pup to avoid chicken. If that helps then it is a win.
My old age tells me that more than likely the prolapse was caused by straining from having an empty GI tract due to the blockage of the esophagus from the bone along with inflammation from what ever the breeder put the pup on metro for in the first place. Added to that the after effects of anesthesia to remove the bone. But it's all moot at this point.
Time to start from square one. Get your pup on solid footing health wise and evaluate from there.
As of right now your pup has been through a lot and just needs time to heal and gain normalcy in the GI tract.
Go with your vets recommendation and don't stress. Hug your pup and enjoy each other.
Wishing you better days ahead.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> That is not a fact per the veterinarians that do allergy testing. Veterinarians will tell you food allergies are actually rare and most are environmental. It is an opinion spread on internet with zero scientific backing stated with confidence by people who have googled so it must be fact. Sorry, not sorry. That crap infuriates me. I spent years screwing around with "a chicken allergy" when it was environmental because I believe keyboard warriors. Been there, drank that Kool-aid and my dog paid the price.


And then to diagnose something like that when a dog on kibble has so many different ingredients that can vary to some degree coming from different suppliers? I know this is anecdotal and I have no degree's or studies to site, but I've met more then enough people who's dogs got better when they just fed them and ignored what the vet thought and flea bathed a few times.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I wonder if sensitivity to frog legs is pretty common as well ??????


SuperG


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## Rosann (Feb 13, 2020)

Calicontractor said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My wife is freaking out and pissed at me. We switched our 14 week old puppy over to barf last week. Everything has been fine so far.
> 
> ...


Your dog will be completely fine. I been feeding raw model prey diet. (NotBarf). Our dogs eat a entire knuckle bone sometimes and the stomach will break down the bone and poop out the remainder of the calcium. No need to over react. I feed my 5 week old puppies straight raw with bone also and have no issues


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

The bone was stuck in her esophagus and needed endoscopy to remove.


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## dino17 (Feb 4, 2020)

Wishing you guys the best. Problem i have is he constantly looking for sticks in the yard. We have a lot of evergreens in the back. He will literally rip a lower branch off and run.
I have to watch him like a hawk. No matter what the weather conditions are. Last week here he has a stick lodged in his throat. Forced his jaws open and got it out. That's the 3rd time for this. He knew i was trying to get it out and didn't fight me.. His middle name is knucklehead.
AKA Grizzly.


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## Franklin829 (Aug 29, 2019)

Calicontractor said:


> So just got back from the vet. Her tiny prolapse healed itself overnight. Vet says it's irritated and she will probably mess with it but in the end it should be an issue.
> 
> She is on 7 days of Metronidazole twice a day, every 12 hours. The vet doesn't want her on any chicken, not sure I agree here but she is the pro. When she was eating raw chicken she had the best poop since we had her, so I'll go with it for now.
> 
> ...


 Just out of curiosity, what kibble did the vet recommend feeding?


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## Calicontractor (Feb 10, 2020)

She didn't. Well no she offhandly mentioned Purina pro plan? I questioned her on it containing corn and she said Sasha needs the carbs because she is 9-10 pounds underweight. I'm not to comfortable giving her corn as part of her food. 

I ended up putting her on earthborn holistic coastal catch. It appears to be a quality kibble and it's close for me to resupply. 

She did have a good solid poop today. I didn't have kibble at the time so she got beef heart, whole cottage cheese, whole organic yogurt, brown rice, and a veggie puree..


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## 491654 (Jan 20, 2020)

I buy raw beef and chicken and then run it through the food processor with carrots and peas. My 4 month old is doing wonderful on it. 
I also did a lot of research on kibble as he was having very loose stools, Diamond large breed puppy is the best. 
He has the raw processed meat for breakfast, kibble for lunch then the meat mixed with kibble for dinner. Make sure she had access to lots of water as the raw diet requires more water to digest. 

My rule is I don't give my pup anything smaller than my fist is across. Also avoid the rope toys, they are a choking hazard.
Good luck with your little girl!


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## Zipra (Dec 19, 2019)

I’m so glad she’s okay!!!! 
as for raw feeding! Alot of people avoid pork bones and leg bones and stuff.Chicken is usually the starter


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## Denni (Jan 27, 2020)

Calicontractor said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My wife is freaking out and pissed at me. We switched our 14 week old puppy over to barf last week. Everything has been fine so far.
> 
> ...


I am so very very happy for you that Sasha is ok. ????????????? Blessings to you.


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## Nike777! (Jan 24, 2020)

Calicontractor said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My wife is freaking out and pissed at me. We switched our 14 week old puppy over to barf last week. Everything has been fine so far.
> 
> ...


Never ever Give chicken or pork bones to your dog!!!


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## Landshark (Aug 20, 2010)

I have lurked on this board a long time. I hope no one minds my input.. I have fed BARF for over 15 years to several dogs. From puppies to adults. When done right, it can be wonderful. Feeding is a very personal choice. Like anything else involving our dogs, it takes reserach and carfeul selection. My advice is you go to the BARF discussion boards or FaceBook groups and see what is suggested for bones and sizes. Glad everything turned out okay, and that Sasha has a wonderful life.


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## 4K9Mom (Jun 19, 2019)

A couple quick things: Metronidazole is an antibiotic for bacterial infections, yes. It's also a good anti-diarrheal medicine in dogs as it helps to reduce inflammation. Finally, it works to kill protozoal infections, such as Giardia, Trichomonas, etc. It's not a drug I love giving to puppies, but it's not uncommon for breeders to send home metroniadazole with their puppies, particularly if they're in rural areas, where giardia is a common problem. So that's that.

If your vet prescribed it, give the whole dose. Treat it as an antibiotic.

With regard to diet, my feeling is that the best diet for my dog is the the one that particular dog thrives on (I currently have four dogs on four different diets). I've fed everything: raw, dehydrated raw, home cooked, kibble, prescription food, etc. There is no one correct food. It depends on the dog. I will say that doing all the research and getting a good meat grinder and grinding bones for a raw diet certainly reduces many issues, including broken teeth. But that's water under the bridge at this point.

Ok, you said that you were going to feed half kibble, half fresh. That half fresh food has to be properly balanced. I trust you know that, but it wasn't entirely sure. We can't simply put a bunch of fresh cooked meat on kibble, particularly with puppies, You'll be feeding her way too much phosphorous which can cause significant issues as she grows.

My pup can't eat chicken. I put him on Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Puppy, which is formulated for large puppies. I added a couple sardines or Icelandic Plus Dehydrated capelin to ensure he was getting a proper amount of taurine since TOTW is legumes based. I use these fish for training treats.

His 8 month hip xrays and elbow xrays/CT were very good. His bloodwork excellent. At 10 months, I switched him to Nature's Logic Sardine formula, which is a very good food and he loves it. Nature's Logic Sardine is an All Life Stages food, which means technically, it can be fed to puppies, but I think the fat is too low for a growing pup. For that reason, I still give my pup (who is about 90% grown) the sardines/capelin --which as you probably know from feeding raw, small whole fish generallly have good 1:1.2 or so calcium/phosphorous ratio. I also use Plato's Salmon and Natural Balance limited ingredients salmon treats for training treats. Be sure to keep treats tiny since they're not manufactured to be balanced.

By keeping my dog on a strict fish diet, I know that if he develops an allergy later in life, I've held back other proteins I can use later. I'm not a fan of exposing my dogs to a lot of different proteins. My last GSD had poultry allergies since birth. I fed him lamb exclusively. He became allergic to lamb at about 8 years old; and I was able to make a quick transition to beef because I held that back.

Final note, with food allergies, it takes several weeks at least for the old protein to get out of her system, so if you don't see results right away, you should probably stick with the new food for a while unless your vet tells you differently. Folks often jump around too often, and the poor dog's GI tract never gets a chance to settle down.

I hope your little girl fully recovers. She's adorable. 

Good luck.


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## [email protected] (Feb 13, 2020)

Calicontractor said:


> You know I never considered pet insurance, I think I'll look into it. I've lost 3 rescues over the years to hermangiasarcoma.
> 
> The reason I considered raw diet, it just seems better. I equate kibble to McDonald's, yeah it's convenient but not that great either.
> We had her on blue Buffalo large bread puppy and her poops got worse every day.
> ...


We have our boys on Canidae - duck and sweet potato. We add grain (not daily) because a grain free diet is causing Cushings and other illnesses. I was reading through and came across your post. I am very thankful that your girl is going to be fine. I had to jump to the end to find out. It’s hard to be a “parent” to these critters because they hide pain well.


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## mkinttrim (Jul 3, 2011)

I can't believe all the raw haters. It's not for amateurs, it's work, and takes time and research, but all my dogs through the years have been on raw with no problems, NONE of my dogs have died from cancer, have had zero teeth or dental problems and the youngest at time of death was 12! Young pups get large bones with supervision( for gnawing). They get whole chicken legs at around 4 months. It's not for everyone, sure it's easier to dump some purina in a bowl but I have no problem with raw. If it doesn't work for you fine, but it DOES work for many of us, let us be. We don't rag on you for feeding kibble!


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

mkinttrim said:


> I can't believe all the raw haters. It's not for amateurs, it's work, and takes time and research, but all my dogs through the years have been on raw with no problems, NONE of my dogs have died from cancer, have had zero teeth or dental problems and the youngest at time of death was 12! Young pups get large bones with supervision( for gnawing). They get whole chicken legs at around 4 months. It's not for everyone, sure it's easier to dump some purina in a bowl but I have no problem with raw. If it doesn't work for you fine, but it DOES work for many of us, let us be. We don't rag on you for feeding kibble!


Raw haters...LOL!!! My first GSD lived to 14 years old and ate Iams most her life ?‍♀

All anyone is asking that the pros & cons of feeding raw meat are posted here, that's not too much to ask is it? Just be honest about it! 

I don't care what you feed your dog, you can eat your meat raw and it wouldn't bother me one bit. But many new members come here and get information (from people that are far from experts to put it mildly) that is not exactly accurate so they can make an informed decision.

For six years I prepared a cooked diet (balanced) for Nikki and I can tell you it's a lot more work then your raw diet. Have a nice day!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Ok, this thread has run its course and then some.... if you would like to continue to check on and support the OP, please feel free to do so. Otherwise, let’s discontinue the back and forth about individual feelings on raw diets.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SuperG said:


> I wonder if sensitivity to frog legs is pretty common as well ??????
> 
> 
> SuperG


My son said they taste like fish


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Calicontractor said:


> You know I never considered pet insurance, I think I'll look into it. I've lost 3 rescues over the years to hermangiasarcoma.
> 
> The reason I considered raw diet, it just seems better. I equate kibble to McDonald's, yeah it's convenient but not that great either.
> We had her on blue Buffalo large bread puppy and her poops got worse every day.
> ...


I would always have any dog on pet insurance. It has saved me thousands of dollars over the years.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

This might have been a red flag for you:
"I remembered when I picked Sasha up from the breeder she gave me a baggie with 5 white pills and she said it was for nervous belly. No direction like give one a day until gone, just if her poop isn't right give her one. "
This is besides the swallowed bone but it shows to me that the breeder was aware of her sensitive digestive system. Did you discuss this with the breeder?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> My son said they taste like fish


Well......that shoots down my whole "frog legs taste like chicken" sensitivity theory.......


SuperG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SuperG said:


> Well......that shoots down my whole "frog legs taste like chicken" sensitivity theory.......
> 
> 
> SuperG


you were a boy once. You never snuck beer and cooked frogs while butt dialing your mother??


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## Clare (Feb 6, 2005)

Tripp's mom said:


> I buy raw beef and chicken and then run it through the food processor with carrots and peas. My 4 month old is doing wonderful on it.
> I also did a lot of research on kibble as he was having very loose stools, Diamond large breed puppy is the best.
> He has the raw processed meat for breakfast, kibble for lunch then the meat mixed with kibble for dinner. Make sure she had access to lots of water as the raw diet requires more water to digest.
> 
> ...


running the raw meat through a food processor with carrots and peas?? Genius!!! Marco was eating veggies til he wasnt  I'm going to try pureeing it. Just like a little kid lol!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Peas and other legumes are being controversial due to dogs getting sick on grain free diets that contain them.


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## 491654 (Jan 20, 2020)

wolfy dog said:


> Peas and other legumes are being controversial due to dogs getting sick on grain free diets that contain them.


Those are highly processed. Which is a big difference from fresh. ?


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