# Help - My GSD is chewing her hair out.



## Titanium5 (Jul 23, 2012)

Hello everyone. First time poster and GSD owner!

Let me introduce myself, my name is Walt. My wife and I rescued our lovely Lola in March of this year from http://northwestgermanshepherd.org/.









 
We believe we found a great companion to our family (we have no kids and are previous dog owners) and that is still the case as she has bonded very well with my wife and I but I can really use an expert GSD owners opinion on some of the things that I have concerns about.

Lola is a 5 year old GSD of the "Czech" variety and was believed to be bred at this breeder http://vombanachk9.homestead.com/.

We've noticed a few things off the bat after the rescue.

She yelped in pain when jumping up into the back of our car (about 3/4 feet). An x-ray later by our vet said that there was some mild Hip Dysplasia and some narrowing of the discs in her lower back. No worries, we'll work around it. Nothing that exercise and some glucosamine should be able to help (at least for the hip). We just have to be mindful about her “lower” back.

We also noticed that she was prone to a lot of scratching and chewing. We believe that this is the result of allergies (and the vet also believes it). It could be a combination of environmental and potentially food.

Before I go any further, we have her on a 100% Raw diet consisting of 2 Vital Essentials turkey patties a day (http://www.vitalessentialsraw.com/html/Feast/products/FZTurkeyPP.html) and 2 cups of regular off the counter oatmeal. So 1 patty and 1 cup of oatmeal (prepared with warm water) twice a day.

We had her on dry dog food before but had some issues with her having diarrhea. From the research I’ve done, I understand that GSDs stomachs can be a bit sensitive so my wife and I have had her on this raw diet for the past 2 months now.

Things seemed to be going well until we noticed the uptick in her biting and chewing herself. She also has had really bad flakey (white) skin – some serious doggie dandruff! Note that she gets bathed with an oatmeal shampoo and rinsed very well at least once every 3 weeks or so (give or take a week).

Here is what her back right quarter looks like now 


















Note: the shortness of the hair on her legs, this is because she is chewing them down to almost just stubble. Maybe it's just me but it seems like her hair is getting a lot lighter (almost white) if you compare the pics from above to below.

Also she used to have an opaque somewhat string liquid coming from her female parts and has since turned to yellowish (indicating possible infection). 

I will not post a picture because it’s graphic but if anyone wants, they can examine it and let me know what it may be at this link: https://zuttfg.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pVqfqLutP0Z1YiFk7fRqUH2bazEB2DKJUhx0Y5Wd93kLifsapMNvaqDiWlbAtGgID5QMUqpMGUClron9Y10BvYTZqDjZFAxVH/WP_000294%20(2).jpg?psid=1
Note: when it was just opaque I asked the dog to check her for a urinary infection, he did the urine extraction right from the bladder and the results came back negative for any infection so I am thinking this is a female ‘tract’ issue.

She gets a moderate amount of exercise a day but mostly is an inside dog and her only companionship is myself, my wife and friends that come by. I hope none of this is psychosomatic as I’ve also read that when they are bored, they can do this to themselves – but to this extent?!

So far we’ve spent quite a bit of money at our local vet and things have gotten so bad that I am reaching out to you all and will see if anyone can recommend a Seattle / Bellevue vet that KNOWS GSDs. I would prefer a vet located on the east side since I live near Snoqualmie.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. We love her and want the best for her so please, if you have suggestions, I would really appreciate it!

-Walt


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

The link only provides the option to sign into a live mail account. Why only turkey and oatmeal? Why the oatmeal? Not a very balanced raw diet. She may be allergic to the oatmeal. I would try removing the oatmeal and giving her other raw meat items as well...

I'm no expert, but have fed raw... Here is a good site for tips on feeding a balanced raw diet...

http://www.rawdogranch.com/


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

3 questions
1) what does she weigh
2) is she fixed
3) did you have her vaccinated/heartworm prevention treatment recently (since you got her and/or prior owner - when?)


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Lakl said:


> The link only provides the option to sign into a live mail account. Why only turkey and oatmeal? Why the oatmeal? Not a very balanced raw diet. She may be allergic to the oatmeal. I would try removing the oatmeal and giving her other raw meat items as well...
> 
> I'm no expert, but have fed raw... Here is a good site for tips on feeding a balanced raw diet...
> 
> Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch


I have to concur w/the oatmeal - exnay it!

Ian Billinghurst writes...2-3% of dogs ideal weight...
60% of that should be meat and bone 
15% vegetable matter
10% offal
5% fruit (but shepherds should have minimal fruit sub w/veg - my opinion)
remaining 10% should be suppliments that mimic "feces and soil" (this is in the book) - so What he means in minerals as found in the earth or lost through digestion.
Suggets:Alfalfa (is good for inflammation), kelp (trace minerals and thyroid, 


Other helpful would be a vit/mineral mix (as soil does not contain necessary nutrients it used to

EFA (should be Omega 3 only as muscle meat provides the 6 naturally and is manufactured by the body, 3 has to come from outside sources - herring seems to be a good choice I have read because of the Vit. D, and seems to be a push on for that as well as krill oil. or try a fish body oil that contains sardine, mackeral and herring...or throw a can of sardines in the mix a couple times a week - packed in spring water of course)
Probiotic
And perhaps a pancreatin based Digestive enzyme to hydrolize protiens and fats for better absorption (another cause of itchy skin)
Add some herbs, parsley, rosemary, (grind up and mix in veg.), tumeric, sage

Mix it up, too much of same may cause food intolerances - inflammation

Invest in a juicer if she tollerates raw veg can make her anti-oxident smoothies! use the pulp from it - otherwise cook and process veg (good blender or food processor)

I feed my dog 2.5 lbs a day = 16-17oz. meat, 15-16oz. veg. and 7-10oz. of chicken frames (carcass's )

You don't need patties, save yourself some money and buy the turkey, chicken beef - source wholesalers and buy in bulk...I estimate she is 75lbs high end say(so I think according to the link you provided needs 3 patties)...thats 7.50 a day...outragious! I spend $5.00/day and feed chicken breasts only skinned (as he doesn't tolerate fat), and veg. and chicken frames - fat gouged out of it - I am emphasizing this as a start...fat intollerance in a shepherd can mean EPI or possible pancraetic flare ups possibley leading to acute pancreatitis...hence digestive enzymes
Go to EPI for dogs to learn more...here's the link

Overview - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency

Bone appetit:laugh:


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Is there a medical reason why you're bathing her so often? One of my dogs was bathed monthly, started biting, scratching, and had dry flaky skin, so I cut way back on the baths and the skin problems disappeared. We also went to a grain free diet.


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## Titanium5 (Jul 23, 2012)

Wow! I just checked back in to see if anyone has even looked and I am very excited that I have 3 (good) responses already. Thanks so much!

*Lakl* - Just think of thick yellow snot for the link. Sorry, I didn't know it needed a PW to view the picture. Why Oatmeal? It was suggested to my wife and I (since this is our first Raw Food diet for any dog we owned). Since there are multiple people here who suggest nixing the oatmeal, consider it gone. Thanks so much for the link. I'll dig deeper into it tonight.

*GatorBytes* - She weighs 72 lbs / although it looks like she has lost some weight recently. Probably because of this diet.  Yes, she is fixed. Yes, she has had her entire round of shots (at least that is what the vet paperwork said from the adoption agency). I have to look at the heartworm treatment date. Let me get back to you on that.

*Luv**shepherds* - No, there isn't a medical reason. That is the schedule we used to bathe our golden. We were advised to take her off a grain diet as well by most people we talked with. Overall, i heard that protein should be the first ingredient in kibble (as per our last dog) and she was fine on it.

That is also a great breakdown on the % of different foods in a Raw food diet.

This is a lot to take in right now but my wife and I want to do the right thing. At this point, she's just shedding all over the house and when I run my hand through her fur, a lot comes out.

So just to verify, you can give your shepherd raw chicken bones, correct? I know you shouldn't give dogs cooked bones (because of splintering) so the raw ones are best, right?

Thanks again for your responses. I hope this helps her out. I'll keep you all posted!

-Walt


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

The only reason I ask about the weight was the amount of patties you were giving her. 

I also suggested to start with minimal fat as a precaution. Some people blame RAW as a reason for their dogs diarrhea...it's usually the fat.

As for bones, it's primal and fun for the dog (and the human to watch - always watch)...the act of crushing the bone stimulates the saliva which contains enzymes that start the digestion (not so much in ground patties), it brushes their teeth, massages their gums (again not in patties) and it exercises and number of muscles.

another note to consider: I feed my dog his meat and veg first...that way he fills up a touch and will slow his roll on the bones...seems to work, plus he wants the bones so much...he'll eat all his veg to get them (he used to be more fussy - now he's a piggy, but only 85lbs.)

I also want to note on the fat issue, and I am sure many will concur, marrow bones = emergency bathroom visits, make sure if you try one out, it isn't too big and you plan on being home for next 24 hrs. Maybe (every dog is different)!


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

forgot to refer the other two questions

Fixed is good mostly - this regarding the mucous. I looked up discharges in reproductive area's in females...Pyometra which is "usually" an issue in intact females...however spayed can also happen "IF" the surgery wasn't prperly executed. Look up noted for symptoms - but listlessness, and heavy urination and pale gums...are noted. This is considered VERY serious and needs vet attention ASAP

Otherwise it may be an minor infection of the "vaggie" and you can flush with vinigar and water - YEAH i know...I wouldn't try...I have a feeling you'll be chatting with your wife on this one...treat any irritation of the area with Calendula tea or ointment...throw some boxers on her so she can't irritate...and take a photo for us :crazy:

As for the vaccinations/Heartworm...these can be a huge factor in her itchness, especially if she has had them within weeks or a few months of each other...note: look into vaccinosis...annuals are not required and may cause more damage then you'll ever know....Titers are recommended to test for antibodies...if apprptiate are present - no need to vaccinate!
Heartworm prevention is a pesticide, be careful what you use, and well probably shouldn't be used on an itchy dog...look into MDR-1 mutation and "mectin" type HW drugs...mostly prevelent in collies, but noted in herding breeds


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## Titanium5 (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks again for taking the time to respond everyone (esp GatorBytes)!

Lola and I went to the vet today. Minor infection was diagnosed and antibiotics were prescribed. I'll be taking her back in the week.

Good news is that she actually gained a few pounds but still looks sleek as ever.

The vet also recommended a skin test for allergies but I'll hold off for the next few weeks to see how the adjustment with the new diet we have her on (thanks to pointers to reading materials and suggestions)!

I am still worried about her hair loss. Vet didn't see any (topical) skin diseases to speak of (noting that tests can be done) but again, I think diet has a lot to do with this. Need to pick up some fish oils for her.

I've also just noticed in the past couple days, her stools went from runny (after stopping the oatmeal) to more solid - just this evening.

Hopefully everything else will fall in line! She still has lots of energy and starting to get anxious for her evening walk right now. 

Cheers,
-Walt


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Anti -b' for the "issue"  ?

Good stuff...right track, give the body a chance to repair itself, then see if scrapings are needed. not sure if part of your new protocol,,,but worth a try, a pancreatin/d-zyme, sometimes thats all you need. Used with food, helps break down to be utilized. Away from food they are supposed to work on the circulating proteins the immune system is seeing as invaders leading to imflammation...itchy skin.

Other theory - or co-theory, is the organs systems are working full boar, and the body is purging through the skin...addressing w/foods that cleanse and repair the bodys filtering system...kidneys, liver. 

Everybody is nouring the skin w/products and fish oil...but haven't seen much in posts that mention supporting organs.

Maybe start a thread???


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I agree with the diet change. Avoid fat on the meat but gradually give her different meats and research on the site provided will help you a ton. Sounds like your girl is in good hands  I think with a more rounded diet she will start looking a lot better. As for the chewing and scratching, be careful for fleas. She could easily be allergic to them (lots of dogs are) I know my boy has fits and chews himself raw when he has them. 

Good luck and don't forget to post pictures!!!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

[FONT=&quot]Hi Walt! I agree with everyone, especially about the inoculations and raw food! She shouldn’t need any shots for a long, long time and I’ll bet you can get an “Exemption” on the Rabies if a vet will work with you! Sounds like her immune system has really taken a hit showing by the skin issues you are describing! You might want to try a couple of things. Supplementing her with a product called *Whole Body Health by Standard Process could help Canine Whole Body Support 100 Grams by Standard Process . Their supplements are made from organic whole concentrated foods, different from regular vitamins. *Virgin Coconut Oil from the health food store. It’s a gentle oil that is easily digested and metabolized. According to epi.dog, “Coconut oil, -with its anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties, together with its ease of digestion and metabolism, is therefore a premium supplement for EPI/SIBO dogs.” You would give 1 teaspoon per 10 to 20 pounds of body weight per day, split into two feedings. Start with small amounts working up to that dose.[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot]After she is adjusted to the new food regime, you might want to add some *Neptune Krill Oil (Neptune Krill Oil 60 Softgels by DaVinci Labs or Krill-plex 60 Softgel Capsules by Pure Encapsulations I rotate the two) for Omega’s 3 & 6. I like it b/c it contains more EPA, antioxidants’ and phospholipids than fish oil. You would start with small doses’ and work up.[/FONT]*

I found a holistic vet in your area from the AHVMA you might want to check out. The nice thing about this vet is that she practices western medicine (which treats symptoms) PLUS other complementary medicines (which treats the cause) especially Homotoxicology which could really help your baby! Also, a holistic vet would work with you on a rabies exemption. 
*[FONT=&quot]Fernald, Katherine DVM[/FONT]: SEATTLE NATURAL VETERINARY CENTER Home - www.seattlenaturalvet.com 206-783-5900 6500 8TH AVENUE NW, Seattle, WA 98117: Practices: Chinese Herbs, Chiropractic, Clinical Nutrition, Conventional Medicine, Glandular Therapy, Homeopathy, Homotoxicology, Western Herbs*


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Momto2GSDs said:


> [FONT=&quot]Hi Walt! I agree with everyone, especially about the inoculations and raw food! She shouldn’t need any shots for a long, long time and I’ll bet you can get an “Exemption” on the Rabies if a vet will work with you! Sounds like her immune system has really taken a hit showing by the skin issues you are describing! You might want to try a couple of things. Supplementing her with a product called *Whole Body Health by Standard Process could help Canine Whole Body Support 100 Grams by Standard Process . Their supplements are made from organic whole concentrated foods, different from regular vitamins. *Virgin Coconut Oil from the health food store. It’s a gentle oil that is easily digested and metabolized. According to epi.dog, “Coconut oil, -with its anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties, together with its ease of digestion and metabolism, is therefore a premium supplement for EPI/SIBO dogs.” You would give 1 teaspoon per 10 to 20 pounds of body weight per day, split into two feedings. Start with small amounts working up to that dose.[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot]After she is adjusted to the new food regime, you might want to add some *Neptune Krill Oil (Neptune Krill Oil 60 Softgels by DaVinci Labs or Krill-plex 60 Softgel Capsules by Pure Encapsulations I rotate the two) for Omega’s 3 & 6. I like it b/c it contains more EPA, antioxidants’ and phospholipids than fish oil. You would start with small doses’ and work up.[/FONT]*
> 
> I found a holistic vet in your area from the AHVMA you might want to check out. The nice thing about this vet is that she practices western medicine (which treats symptoms) PLUS other complementary medicines (which treats the cause) especially Homotoxicology which could really help your baby! Also, a holistic vet would work with you on a rabies exemption.
> *[FONT=&quot]Fernald, Katherine DVM[/FONT]: SEATTLE NATURAL VETERINARY CENTER Home - www.seattlenaturalvet.com 206-783-5900 6500 8TH AVENUE NW, Seattle, WA 98117: Practices: Chinese Herbs, Chiropractic, Clinical Nutrition, Conventional Medicine, Glandular Therapy, Homeopathy, Homotoxicology, Western Herbs*


Mom's has great advice...and wow (!), I wish this vet were in my area...Walt, this is the difference when you seek help from an "integrative" DVM, just look at the "Practices" vs. a conventional website that offer "blood tests, vaccines, heartworm prevention and prescription diets" (prefabbed, not diets geared from education about whole food nutrition)...Integrative have so much more to offer, more knowledge and less toxic alternatives and in my opinion is someone who really cares about animals and health and has gone further in their education then conventional doctors to find modalities to bring balance. 

Let food be thy medicine and let medicine by thy food ~ Hippocretes

Mom's how is it you are so knowledgable....from exp. or practice?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Mom's has great advice...and wow (!), I wish this vet were in my area...Walt, this is the difference when you seek help from an "integrative" DVM, just look at the "Practices" vs. a conventional website that offer "blood tests, vaccines, heartworm prevention and prescription diets" (prefabbed, not diets geared from education about whole food nutrition)...Integrative have so much more to offer, more knowledge and less toxic alternatives and in my opinion is someone who really cares about animals and health and has gone further in their education then conventional doctors to find modalities to bring balance.
> 
> Let food be thy medicine and let medicine by thy food ~ Hippocretes
> 
> Mom's how is it you are so knowledgable....from exp. or practice?


 Thanks, Gator!
Unfortunately, or fortunately....experience! My first GSD was half dead at 2 years old with severe EPI. A normally 85 pound female, down to 50 pounds, hair falling out, malnutrition and starving to death while eating 10 cups of kibble per day (expelling it soon after she ate it!), bile leaking from her rectum when she was sleeping, and aggression…. Just to name just a few things! Too many inoculations and bad EXPENSIVE kibble! The Western vets said she wouldn’t see 3 years old, so I took matters into my own hands!
Found out what was REALLY in kibble and that all those shots’ (she got them ALL of course ) was killing my dog! Educated myself, switched to raw food (17 years ago there was only Pat McKay and Kymythy Schultze, so I combined the two diets), homeopathy, acupuncture, chiropractics, supplementation and NO more vets! She lived until almost her 12th birthday and attained 13 different titles in agility, obedience, and tracking! Lots of trial and error for a few years! Her body was the teacher, I the student.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi Walt! Here is another tip! 

You can make a really nice homemade shampoo for your girl. Go to the health food store and buy 1- 40 ounce bottle of “Pure Castile” Soap (some are scented), 2-16 ounce bottles of “Vegetable Glycerin” (this puts some oil in their coat) and optional is a small bottle of Essential Lavender Oil or something that smells good to you. Using a funnel, pour 1 cup "Castile Soap", 1 cup "Vegetable Glycerin” and 2 cups purified water into an empty dish soap bottle that has been cleaned. Add 10-20 drops of Lavender Oil if you choose, and turn up and down gently to mix each time before you use the bottle. Wallll-LA! Inexpensive, limited ingredient, Doggie Shampoo! You can also, follow the shampooing with a rinse of Organic Vinegar, mixed ½ & ½ with water for her skin just in case it’s “yeast” that is bothering her! You can also clean out her ears with the Organic Vinegar and a soft cloth. You'll have enough product for a few bottles of shampoo!


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Hi Walt! Here is another tip!
> 
> You can make a really nice homemade shampoo for your girl. Go to the health food store and buy 1- 40 ounce bottle of “Pure Castile” Soap (some are scented), 2-16 ounce bottles of “Vegetable Glycerin” (this puts some oil in their coat) and optional is a small bottle of Essential Lavender Oil or something that smells good to you. Using a funnel, pour 1 cup "Castile Soap", 1 cup "Vegetable Glycerin” and 2 cups purified water into an empty dish soap bottle that has been cleaned. Add 10-20 drops of Lavender Oil if you choose, and turn up and down gently to mix each time before you use the bottle. Wallll-LA! Inexpensive, limited ingredient, Doggie Shampoo! You can also, follow the shampooing with a rinse of Organic Vinegar, mixed ½ & ½ with water for her skin just in case it’s “yeast” that is bothering her! You can also clean out her ears with the Organic Vinegar and a soft cloth. You'll have enough product for a few bottles of shampoo!


And, you can use as a body wash and shampoo yourself!
and Mom's have you ever tried coconut oil in the ears?...I tried almond, with and w/o tea tree, 50/50 ACV, ACV, aloe juice w/ACV...but the gunk kept coming...Virgin cold pressed coconut oil - Presto, it emulsified the gunk, killed the pathogen (whether it was yeast, bacteria or mites, don't know) - and he loved how it felt...I have run it thru my hair and feels amazing!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> And, you can use as a body wash and shampoo yourself!
> and Mom's have you ever tried coconut oil in the ears?...I tried almond, with and w/o tea tree, 50/50 ACV, ACV, aloe juice w/ACV...but the gunk kept coming...Virgin cold pressed coconut oil - Presto, it emulsified the gunk, killed the pathogen (whether it was yeast, bacteria or mites, don't know) - and he loved how it felt...I have run it thru my hair and feels amazing!


 What a GREAT idea Gator! What works for some dogs, won’t work for others! And Coconut Oil is used for yeast!

I have found the Tea Tree to be a little to strong for the skin and possibly not effective for some dogs.
Do you live near any of these cities? There are AHVMA Dr’s there! Toronto, New Market, Kanata, Essex, Collingwood, and Ballieboro offer the most modalities’ and Stouffville, Guelph, and Bradford offer a few. Let me know and I’ll give you the names!
*BTW….In my previous post I said “no more vets” …it should have read “no more “western medicine” vets”. I use holistic vet’s and practitioners’.*


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Momto2GSDs said:


> What a GREAT idea Gator! What works for some dogs, won’t work for others! And Coconut Oil is used for yeast!
> 
> I have found the Tea Tree to be a little to strong for the skin and possibly not effective for some dogs.
> Do you live near any of these cities? There are AHVMA Dr’s there! Toronto, New Market, Kanata, Essex, Collingwood, and Ballieboro offer the most modalities’ and Stouffville, Guelph, and Bradford offer a few. Let me know and I’ll give you the names!
> *BTW….In my previous post I said “no more vets” …it should have read “no more “western medicine” vets”. I use holistic vet’s and practitioners’.*


I have used two...the main one, I haven't been back to as she blatantly ignored an acute knee injury...I know, I was on the other end of the leash and watched as his leg started trembling while peeing and then promptly layed down. The story gets worse, but...well you know. There was a cluster of errors, 3 vets and then a consult from the vet who used to own Newmarket, but sold and moved to Califoria. She was in town and a friend set it up, she did a house call. She isn't licensed in Canada anymore so she couldn't physically examine him, did muscle testing on the plythera of suppliments and herbs (scripted by the other vet for lyme disease - her definition of what is wrong with all dogs it seems-that's were we cam to blows), exnayed a bunch (most I had stopped anyhow), and made some homeopathic suggestions (Unda #'s). We never tested his food which was a huge priority for me, but she had to go...anyhow, moderate improvement, but the poop issue didn't resolve until I used a product by Omega Alpha - "para - free" . He has been worse in the itchy skin dept this year...took two years to almost heal him, and now worse. My thinking is he has taken such a beating his immune system is worn out. He seems to be fighting SIBO and/or parasite at a 50/50 plus and minus, gets good, then usual wonkyness comes back. He may or may not have pancreatic issues...a new symptom that has reared it's head - Spontainious back arch...walking, we pause and then suddenly he arches and leans on me...it leaves at the speed it came, and he boogies on like nothing happened...he has always pooped a few minuts prior...

Anyhow, Out of money, unhappy dog, symptoms are scaring me, and I don't have a vet I trust.  ...explains my feelings and


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> I have used two...the main one, I haven't been back to as she blatantly ignored an acute knee injury...I know, I was on the other end of the leash and watched as his leg started trembling while peeing and then promptly layed down. The story gets worse, but...well you know. There was a cluster of errors, 3 vets and then a consult from the vet who used to own Newmarket, but sold and moved to Califoria. She was in town and a friend set it up, she did a house call. She isn't licensed in Canada anymore so she couldn't physically examine him, did muscle testing on the plythera of suppliments and herbs (scripted by the other vet for lyme disease - her definition of what is wrong with all dogs it seems-that's were we cam to blows), exnayed a bunch (most I had stopped anyhow), and made some homeopathic suggestions (Unda #'s). We never tested his food which was a huge priority for me, but she had to go...anyhow, moderate improvement, but the poop issue didn't resolve until I used a product by Omega Alpha - "para - free" . He has been worse in the itchy skin dept this year...took two years to almost heal him, and now worse. My thinking is he has taken such a beating his immune system is worn out. He seems to be fighting SIBO and/or parasite at a 50/50 plus and minus, gets good, then usual wonkyness comes back. He may or may not have pancreatic issues...a new symptom that has reared it's head - Spontainious back arch...walking, we pause and then suddenly he arches and leans on me...it leaves at the speed it came, and he boogies on like nothing happened...he has always pooped a few minuts prior...
> 
> Anyhow, Out of money, unhappy dog, symptoms are scaring me, and I don't have a vet I trust.  ...explains my feelings and


I hear ya about vet trust!:wild:
Question for ya, has your boy ever been tested for "Clostridium"? It's an anaerobic bacteria that produces endospores. They lay dormant but become active periodically for a number of reasons causing diarrhea and bowel problems. This one is different from the ones the para free was treating.
Also, have you ever tried any homeopathic type enzyme products? They are given 15 to 30 minutes before he would eat to get into his system to prepare his body for food.
You might want to get some Traumeel for your baby's back arch. This would help with inflammation, if that is what's going on. Do you have a chiro or acupuncturist near that could help him before it get worse?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Momto2GSDs said:


> I hear ya about vet trust!:wild:
> Question for ya, has your boy ever been tested for "Clostridium"? It's an anaerobic bacteria that produces endospores. They lay dormant but become active periodically for a number of reasons causing diarrhea and bowel problems. This one is different from the ones the para free was treating.
> Also, have you ever tried any homeopathic type enzyme products? They are given 15 to 30 minutes before he would eat to get into his system to prepare his body for food.
> You might want to get some Traumeel for your baby's back arch. This would help with inflammation, if that is what's going on. Do you have a chiro or acupuncturist near that could help him before it get worse?


Thanks! I will research Clostridium - good info. Not to sabatoge the thread (but people read and learn so it can't hurt but will keep it short)...
Re: symptoms - back arch, have read sign of acute pancreatic inflammation, Kidney pain, and Bloat or bowel issue. May also be a cramp in his hind end due to injuries from last year (has been on the slow side)...I have used a Chiro x 2 but not recently and not acupucture don't think he will tolerate staying still, but then I'm sure they know and apply to calming meridians...I suffer from P.V.S.D. (post veterinary stress disorder) now...I really feel my dog was let down.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Thanks! I will research Clostridium - good info. Not to sabatoge the thread (but people read and learn so it can't hurt but will keep it short)...
> Re: symptoms - back arch, have read sign of acute pancreatic inflammation, Kidney pain, and Bloat or bowel issue. May also be a cramp in his hind end due to injuries from last year (has been on the slow side)...I have used a Chiro x 2 but not recently and not acupucture don't think he will tolerate staying still, but then I'm sure they know and apply to calming meridians...I suffer from P.V.S.D. (post veterinary stress disorder) now...I really feel my dog was let down.


I agree about this thread. May I pm you with more info on pancreatitis?
Clostridum....NASTY little bugger, hard to get rid of, if at all. Lays dormant in the gut. 2 kinds... you can Google the names for info and there are homeopathic's to control them: 
*Clostridium difficile *and *Clostridium perfrigens*.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Hey OP,
One thing that helped my rescue dog with her severe allergies was adding Olewo to her diet. Olewo is a dried carrot supplement that you rehydrate before you feed with food. I add Salmon oil with it because the oils/fats help with absorption of the vitamins/nutrients in the carrots. My rescue used to have trouble with runny stools as well. After Olewo, bowel movements are solid and consistent. Highly recommend it! In addition, coat is soft, hair is thick and color is vibrant. I would give it a try 
www.olewousa.com/
They carry Olewo on amazon.com now as well.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

momto2gsds said:


> i agree about this thread. May i pm you with more info on pancreatitis?
> Clostridum....nasty little bugger, hard to get rid of, if at all. Lays dormant in the gut. 2 kinds... You can google the names for info and there are homeopathic's to control them:
> *clostridium difficile *and *clostridium perfrigens*.


yes please!


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## Titanium5 (Jul 23, 2012)

Wow again! Thanks SO much for all the great ideas and considerations! I have to really dig into these reccomendations as this is really the first time I am dealing with this. Again, you all have been a boon to Lola and I! 

Thanks again and God Bless!
-Walt


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Titanium5 said:


> Wow again! Thanks SO much for all the great ideas and considerations! I have to really dig into these reccomendations as this is really the first time I am dealing with this. Again, you all have been a boon to Lola and I!
> 
> Thanks again and God Bless!
> -Walt


:toasting:uppy:
Cheers big ears! :laugh:


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Titanium5 said:


> Hello everyone. First time poster and GSD owner!
> 
> Let me introduce myself, my name is Walt. My wife and I rescued our lovely Lola in March of this year from http://northwestgermanshepherd.org/.
> 
> ...


Have they scraped for mange or considered that - either the demodex or the sarcoptic - which doesn't show up so well but is itchy. There is a poster on here called middleofnowhere who had a similar situation with a dog and may be good to PM. 

For some reason I can't see the pictures - have her anal glands and back end area been checked well? 

Also, sometimes dogs will chew their hind quarters if they are experiencing pain - like in the hips. 

There are allergy tests - I cannot remember which are typically thought of as more effective but you may want to check out: Home for that and the thyroid as well. 

Thanks for adopting!


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## Titanium5 (Jul 23, 2012)

Just another quick update. Lola went back to the vet today. Oh, the female problem (oozing from her vaggie) is in check and the antibiotics are helping. Vet said that her back part was a bit “recessed” and potentially prone to infection so we just have to make sure it’s really clean. Most likely it started when she had the runny stools.

My wife was getting really worried about her constant chewing so back to the vet she went. The vet gave her a shot of steroids to give her some relief. My wife was adamant that she needed instant relief.

Anyway, we asked the vet to do a skin scrape. They checked her for all types of topical issues (mites, fleas, mange, bacterial, fungal, etc.) but they all came back negative. They are also doing a blood test for thyroid issues (our golden had hypo thyroid and would exhibit itching when it wasn't in check), i.e. her levels needed to be adjusted. We will also be taking her to a doggie allergist to get the skin test in the next few weeks. I have bad allergies myself and have to get shots (for the past 5 years) once a month in order to help with the watery / itching eyes, runny nose, etc.). So hopefully we can see if 1) it's environmental and / or 2) food borne. Wish us luck and thanks again for the helpful suggestions.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

HI there Walt...

I can understand your wife wanting instant relief for your girl. The stress she's under also put strain on the adrenal's which are responsible for the production/release of hormones and including the body's natural Cortsol...this leads to adrenal burnout...further taxing immune system so for temp solution it's the right thing to do.

(a natural steroid'ish' is Licorice Root...some literature says "DGL" version.(some component removed to do w/blood pressure)......

anyhow...couple things now that she's on abti'B's AND had a steroid shot on top of an already compromised immune system...on top of hormonal release from stress your going to have to help her out a bit...

Definately give her a Probiotic but not w/abx...get a good quality from the refriderator, not shelf stable one....away from food away from meds.

Suggest a D-zyme w/pancreatin

a broad spectrum mult vit./min. mix, one that contains anti-oxident blend too, like a greens plus for dogs...this will help detox/strengthen...

At least these three...no 4 - KELP, not meds. and if not doing green mix... if it's functioning but sluggish...NOURISH...meds. will eventually lead to lazy thyroid and will loose it's function and will need meds. for life. Ashwaganda is a safe herb and indicated for thyroid/adrenals as well stimulates the immune system and is calming (for the stress, good for sep. anxiety), 

Contact the Holistic vet sent by Mom's...even if too far, they could recommend, or consult w/your vet (hmmm???) or at least suggest qualities to look for in a holistic one and costs...you have a few weeks for the derm...research (I know you are overwhelmed)

Holistic offers hair sample testing for heavy metal/mineral toxicty...like aluminum, mercury, zinc oxide...Enviromental!!! conventional testing (scrapings) just signals a possitive result and calls it an allergy (which is fine for food testing) but doesn't determine a toxicity!...there are vitamins and things like apple pectin that bind toxins and remove from the body...give her apples - organic if keeping skins on...great treat! NO seeds they have traces of arsenic!

I think I had one more thing but it will come later.

Now I am not suggesting the herbs as a "you should do" and you don't want to jamb it all in her...so Consult w/an Integrative Vet DVM...I am only suggesting to show you there are usually options...Skin issues are a gold mine for steroid companies!

I do however suggest at least do the first two...d-zyme and probiotic you don't want to run the risk of another poop problem - loss of nutrients, body gets weeker.

Not sure about a good "doggie greens" but I'd stay away from soy. 

Keep us in the loop...it's kinda like a journal of what you did for your dog and when!

G


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