# Is a GSD a good choice for my family?



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

So, I recently moved to a small town with my wife and 2 year-old daughter. We're living in a house with a huge yard, 10 feet walls and fences, and we're thinking of having a dog. I'd like to have a dog that can be a good family pet, that can bond with my daughter as she grows up, and as a guard dog, since we already had a break-in attempt. I had a weimaraner in the past, and I considered getting another one, but I don't think they make very good guard dogs. I'm considering a German Shepherd now, but from what I've read about it in books and on this forum, I'm not so sure about it.

1. I don't plan on keeping the dog chained in the yard unless we have strangers visiting, but I don't like dogs inside the house all the time either. It's fine for them to get in and out when they need something, or to stay for a while when we are doing some family activity, but they must live and eat outside. We have a small winter garden inside the house where he can stay when it's too cold outside, but that's it. Couches and beds are definitely out of limits. I've read that GSDs are more prone to separation anxiety and may get too anxious if left to sleep outside. Is that true?

2. On the other hand, both my wife and I telecommute, so we're at home most of the time. Every once in a while we'll both go on business trips, so the dog will be alone for a few days, although he'll be familiar with the janitor who will feed him when we're not around. Would that be a problem?

3. The house is on a corner, and we have these huge walls around the whole perimeter, but where it borders with the sidewalk, the wall has holes in it, and the dog can see the people walking around. There's a school nearby, so lots of kids, not to mention a bus stop a few steps from our gate. From what I've read, the GSD may be stressed out by watching those people moving so close and may bark at them all the time. Is that true? Can we avoid that with adequate training?


----------



## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

If the dog will be living primarily on its own outside the house I would highly recommend looking for a breed other than a GSD. GSDs bond strongly with their families and really want to be close to their people as much as possible. They also need lots of exercise and need to be engaged and interacted with in their physical and mental exercise ... they are not the type of dog that will play on their own and tire themselves out. Left alone in a yard, no matter how nice or big, they will get bored and will then potentially get destructive or disruptive (i.e. barking at everything that moves, or walks by, digging up the yard, tunneling under the fence, etc.).

The barking at passers-by and such can be addressed with proper training, but without a sufficient amount of exercise (both physical and mental) every day, I don't know that even training will help. A bored GSD is going to find a way to alleviate it's boredom. They are extremely smart dogs, and as such need to be stimulated in positive and engaging ways every day or they can and will be a tough dog to live with regardless of whether they live in the house or outside.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Ken Clean-Air System said:


> If the dog will be living primarily on its own outside the house I would highly recommend looking for a breed other than a GSD. GSDs bond strongly with their families and really want to be close to their people as much as possible. They also need lots of exercise and need to be engaged and interacted with in their physical and mental exercise ... they are not the type of dog that will play on their own and tire themselves out. Left alone in a yard, no matter how nice or big, they will get bored and will then potentially get destructive or disruptive (i.e. barking at everything that moves, or walks by, digging up the yard, tunneling under the fence, etc.).
> 
> The barking at passers-by and such can be addressed with proper training, but without a sufficient amount of exercise (both physical and mental) every day, I don't know that even training will help. A bored GSD is going to find a way to alleviate it's boredom. They are extremely smart dogs, and as such need to be stimulated in positive and engaging ways every day or they can and will be a tough dog to live with regardless of whether they live in the house or outside.


:thumbup: I agree!


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

first off, welcome.

Honestly, these dogs do require alot of 'family' interaction. If your planning on chaining them outside, not a good idea. 

Growing up, years and years ago, my family had always had dogs. One was a gsd that was chained up outside to a dog house. He was a nervous mess, I was a small kid , what did I know? I think being chained up outside, made him not only a nervous mess, but anti social , and well he'd nail anyone that walked past him. He also had separation anxiety. Just not a good thing at all.

if He's familiar with your janitor most likely not a problem.

3. Yes, and who knows , these dog can be territorial, especially if they are living outside most of the time, it could be a liability but also depends on the dog.

Depending on the dog would depend on whether it would be protect anyone, they are usually more about protecting themselves than others. 

A bark is a good deterrent but you can't expect a dog to go after a burglar especially if the dog is living outside.

So, my vote is honestly, I would not get a gsd if I were you


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

No. A GSD is not for you.


----------



## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Hi - welcome and thanks for doing you research! 

I wouldn't recommend a GSD for your situation. Not only do they require a lot of effort to raise, but they are very family-oriented and want to be with their people. If you bring a puppy into your home, you'll need to spend a lot of time (and possibly money) training and socializing your dog properly. They aren't a dog you can leave in a yard, as they quickly become bored and destructive. This type of isolation can also cause a lot of stress, anxiety, and fear, which could lead to behavior that is dangerous and hard to manage, not to mention a big liability. 

Also, as someone mentioned, most dogs are a good deterrent for your average burglar, but typically don't protect others unless trained. 

I'd consider a different breed than a German shepherd! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

I agree with what everyone else has said here. I don't really think a GSD is the correct dog for you. 

With that said, you showed concern about the dog being on the furniture. I have owned GSD for 20+ years and have never let them on the furniture. No couch, no bed, etc. We have a crate beside our bed for them to sleep in and we have a dog bed in the living room beside the couch. They can still be with us and we enjoy them being with us but I don't consider them lap dogs.


----------



## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

I agree. I wouldn't get a GSD if I were you. 

If you main concern is home protection, it would be cheaper to just get a home security system.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I agree with everyone else. 

German Shepherds, in order to become the good dogs they are reputed to be, need lots of training, beginning at 8 weeks when you bring them home. The ones you see that are wonderful and well-behaved-- well, a lot went into those dogs. Many months of training, redirecting, correction. Many months of teaching the dog what to do, and of interacting with it so that it recognizes you as a leader they need to obey. 

By the time they are two, the fruits of all that labor the owner performed with the German Shepherd become evident. A well-trained GSD who is bonded with his family is a treasure and a joy. But you have to pay in your dues to get that. 

You can't train a dog if it is outside, alone. What you will get is a crazy dog who needs to occupy his intelligent mind with something, and a smart dog with too much time and nothing to do will do things people will not like. 

In addition, you have a 2-year-old. You get a GSD and leave it alone outside to its own devices, and he won't learn how he is supposed to behave and control himself. As a result, he becomes a danger to your child. He will jump, nip, be obnoxious, because he has not been taught otherwise. 


So, in conclusion, no, please do not get a GSD.


----------



## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

It would be much easier for you to get ADT or whatever kind of home security system is affordable. More than likely, living outside will make any type of dog a mess. I'm not trying to be rude but I think that if you do get a dog, you need to be able to compromise a little. Maybe get a crate inside the house and let it sleep inside at night. It can be outside during the day in good weather.
I had a Rottweiler growing up and he did well outside all the time - until he got old. My parents had a barn for him to sleep in with hay bedding to keep warm. I honestly think maybe if you find an adult dog who is used to being outside mostly, you may be able to avoid the potential issues that come with a completely outdoor dog. Please don't get a GSD though. Any dog will want to be with its family a lot but a GSD will suffer not being with you inside and left to fend for itself in the backyard. 
Goodluck to you! 

*-*Summer*-*


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

stmcfred said:


> I agree. I wouldn't get a GSD if I were you.
> 
> If you main concern is home protection, it would be cheaper to just get a home security system.


To add another voice, I agree with other posters 100%. Some have candy-coated it a bit, but the hard facts are, as you describe the life you are planning for a dog, you will create a neurotic, problem-causing canine (who would probably end up at a shelter) if you submit a German Shepherd to that life. I can name a bunch of other breeds that could apply to as well. Get a security system, it sounds like you can afford a good one.


----------



## strychix (Dec 22, 2013)

I would not suggest getting a dog for someone who thinks a dog living outside is a good idea, with the exception of livestock guardians that have a job. Dogs are very social creatures an I've never met a primarily outside dog (again, excepting dogs that have a job outside) that didn't have some major issues. Much less a GSD or other super smart breed. They need interaction and a lot of it.


----------



## strychix (Dec 22, 2013)

Oh, and furthermore a 'sometimes inside' intention for a dog always turns into 'always outside.' They never get properly potty trained, end up dirty, and the aforementioned personality issues that go with it.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Agree with everyone else. Perhaps a Great Pyrenees would be a better outdoor type guardian dog? They were bred to protect livestock and be on their own outside a majority of the time. Do well in colder climates too. I don't know a whole lot about them but people I know who have them adore them and use them for their guarding purpose.

As an aside, dogs can be taught to not get on the furniture or beds. My dogs are not allowed on our furniture. 

They do, however, have lovely comfy pet beds scattered around the house and stay inside a good bit of the time.

Personally, I don't understand the 'keep it outside' mentality. I have a dog for the enjoyment of it's companionship as well as other factors such as protection. But....each to their own.

Good luck and you asked good honest questions, I hope you find the right dog for you but a GSD probably is not it....


----------



## Roxann2 (Feb 7, 2013)

How are they supposed to bond with anyone in the family if there kept outside? Not being a jerk just wondering how you can achieve that. So to answer your question no a GSD would not be a good choice for your family.


----------



## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

Get a beagle.


----------



## strychix (Dec 22, 2013)

I would not suggest a LGD for it either, such as a great pyrenees. It's true that they are good outdoor dogs but only if they have a job protecting livestock, as they become social companions to the animals and therefor protect them. I imagine a LGD without a job/social aspect from other animals would be just as bad off as any other breed.


----------



## nktigger99 (Aug 22, 2006)

Get a security system....dogs aren't lawn ornaments..

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## zgil86 (Aug 20, 2013)

Maybe a gun instead?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*I completely disagree with all those who've posted below.*

I completely disagree with all those who've posted below.

YOU DEFINITELY NEED TO GET A GSD...as long as you let me help you pick him out.

If I were you, I'd go for the most expensive (at least $10,000), most well-pedigreed dog I can find with Schutzhund 5 if you can find it and the most famous and beloved TV hound there is. He needs to be no more than 5 years old and have an absolutely wonderful conformation, old world probably best. He needs to be titled and to be a stunningly proactive stud dog that has many titled puppies. In fact, he needs to be on his way to creating a GSD dynasty.

Keep him for six months outside and just watch how all that works out. Then...well...then I can take him off your hands for a cool $100 and you'll be soooo happy you got rid of him.

Just let me know when I should start searching for the dog and when the $10,000 is on deposit.

LF


----------



## Montu (Oct 9, 2012)

Nope sorry.

If you want a dog to "bond" with the family its going to have to be inside with those that it needs to bond with.

if your dead set on getting a dog you might be better off rescuing a dog that's been left outside its whole life and is used to it.

but my honest opinion is to get your self an Alarm. Reinforce your doors and windows etc.. 

Another thing to think about is that a barking dog in the back isn't going to stop some one from breaking in through the front of the house.


----------



## lovemygirl (Jan 19, 2014)

Montu said:


> Another thing to think about is that a barking dog in the back isn't going to stop some one from breaking in through the front of the house.


In addition to everything that everyone else said (aside: LF - LMAO), Montu raises a very good point. There are apparently holes in your fence - a burglar will figure out that the dog is stuck outside the house, and just break in a window. Additionally, most burglars have no qualms about shooting a dog.

I understand where you're coming from and I'm really really not trying to make you feel bad, because I'm so glad you asked before just doing this, but GSDs are sooooooo sensitive. They look really tough, but they bond so deeply to their families, and they require a lot of mental and physical stimulation. 

Instead, I'd recommend a nice home security system and home monitoring devices. A GSD will cost you a pretty penny, not just upfront but in ongoing costs like food, shots, grooming, veterinary care, etc. So take that money and get some cameras, motion detectors, an alarm system, a good sturdy safe, etc. - that's what will really protect your possessions.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

pjwerneck said:


> 1. I don't plan on keeping the dog chained in the yard unless we have strangers visiting, but I don't like dogs inside the house all the time either. It's fine for them to get in and out when they need something, or to stay for a while when we are doing some family activity, but they must live and eat outside. We have a small winter garden inside the house where he can stay when it's too cold outside, but that's it. Couches and beds are definitely out of limits. I've read that GSDs are more prone to separation anxiety and may get too anxious if left to sleep outside. Is that true?


To me your plan sounds like, it will get you this:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...5650-my-gs-bit-my-daughter-time-put-down.html


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

This doesn't sound like a good situation for a dog of any breed. Dogs are intensely social. Stick with the cat & look into other security options.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

At least the OP is asking as a question, that's how we learn, by being willing to ask.

Let's give him the benefit doubt that he'll heed the advice, first......


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

First of all, those being sarcastic and judgmental, that's not very productive, since I'm asking before getting the dog precisely because I don't want to do the wrong thing.

Second, thanks to those who tried to answer the questions, but you apparently misread them:

1. I never said the dog will be chained in the yard. I said the exact opposite, that it never will, unless I have strangers visiting, which I believe is perfectly reasonable.

2. I never said the dog will be abandoned or living on its own in the yard. As a matter of fact, whenever we're not working or sleeping, we're at the yard with our daughter, so we'll also be with the dog a lot of the time.

3. I never said the dog's training would be neglected, quite the opposite. My third question implies that. I'm obviously willing to spend lots of time training him, or I wouldn't be considering having a GSD in the first place. Both my wife and I run many miles every day, we plan on taking the dog with us, so plenty of exercise too.

4. I never said I want the dog primarily for guarding. I already have high walls with electrified fences on top, 24/7 monitored security systems, a safe room, a safe, I practice sport shooting so I have guns and know very well how to use them, and let's say both my wife and I know pretty well how to defend ourselves. I want the dog primarily as a pet, but I want a breed that's good with children, but it's also intimidating and can be a guard dog as an additional deterrent. A GSD seems to fit my needs, if the other specifics I'm asking about aren't a problem.

So, basically, all I said is that the dog wouldn't be allowed to sleep and eat inside, but being allowed to come and go as he pleases during the day, and you jumped to the conclusion that I will keep him as a lawn ornament, chained in the yard, that I will neglect his training, that I won't give him enough attention, etc. That's not at all what I said.

I always had dogs growing up, I had a dog before getting married, they all died of old age, they were never mistreated, neglected, or sent to a shelter, and they all lived by that rule. I can see why many people may have problems with that, but I'm not asking for personal opinions on this. If you think a dog should be allowed to sleep on your bed or your couch, and that I'm a jerk because I don't, that's fine, but that's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking is how traumatic would this be for a GSD, not if you think that makes me a jerk.


So, to rephrase the questions, assuming the dog will have enough love, attention, training and exercise:

1. Despite the fact that the dog will be with us inside and outside most of the time, even more than other owners who keep them inside but leave for work, would it be a problem for him to sleep outside every night? If it is, is there a way to address it other than allowing him to sleep inside?

2. I've read that GSDs sometimes have separation issues even for the few hours their owners leave for work every day. Our dog won't have that problem since we work from home and will be around most of the time, but we'll leave for a few days on business trips every once in a while. Would that be a problem in the same way, or even worse?

3. I've read that GSDs guarding a property will bark to passers-by if there's only a fence or a wall with holes they can see through. Is that really a GSD trait? Can it be addressed with training? My Weimaraner wasn't a very good guard dog, but it was incredibly non-nonsense in that aspect. It would just watch people going by, but bark aggressively when they got too close, or ring the bell, etc.


----------



## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

*I never said the dog will be chained in the yard. I said the exact opposite, that it never will, unless I have strangers visiting, which I believe is perfectly reasonable.*

the answer is still no
something you might not understand is barrier frustration
the precisely incorrect thing to do when strangers come is to make the dog frustrated
due to not being able to investigate the newcomers
you will only succeed in making the dog more aggressive to chain it

beyond that just about every dog on the planet wants and needs to bond with its family
they are pack animals and it is not good mentally to banish them from being in the home

the exception as someone else mentioned would be a pyrenees type dog but then again
your janitor would be at risk from that type dog as it is bred to guard 

curious where you live?


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Your primary question was, Is a German Shepherd a good choice for my family?

After over 40 years of sharing my life with GSDs, and reading your updated post, my answer to the above question is still NO.


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

And it has nothing to do with whether the dog sleeps on someone's bed or a couch.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

> the answer is still no something you might not understand is barrier frustration the precisely incorrect thing to do when strangers come is to make the dog frustrated due to not being able to investigate the newcomers you will only succeed in making the dog more aggressive to chain it


That answer doesn't make sense. What am I supposed to do when I have strangers in the house them? Let the dog roam freely and attack them if he wants? I assume I will have to restrain him in some way when I have strangers around. I'm not saying he will be restrained all the time.

Now, if what you're saying is that I'm wrong in assuming even that I should restrain him when strangers are inside, fine, then I'll be glad if you can explain what's the correct thing to do when I have strangers around the house that I don't want the dog to be friendly with later.



> beyond that just about every dog on the planet wants and needs to bond with its family they are pack animals and it is not good mentally to banish them from being in the home


For the third time, I never said he will be banished from being in the home. He can go in and out as he pleases during the day and even stay inside while we're doing some indoor activity. He won't be allowed to sleep and eat inside.



> curious where you live?


I live in a small town in southern Brazil.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Your primary question was, Is a German Shepherd a good choice for my family?
> 
> After over 40 years of sharing my life with GSDs, and reading your updated post, my answer to the above question is still NO.


I'm glad you took the time to read the question and answer that, but without addressing the points I exposed, your answer isn't very useful at all. I'm really trying to solve a problem here.


----------



## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

pjwerneck said:


> That answer doesn't make sense. What am I supposed to do when I have strangers in the house them? Let the dog roam freely and attack them if he wants? I assume I will have to restrain him in some way when I have strangers around. I'm not saying he will be restrained all the time.



This is why you train the dog. A well trained dog is not going to attack strangers you let inside your home.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

stmcfred said:


> This is why you train the dog. A well trained dog is not going to attack strangers you let inside your home.


Sorry, but that's just sugar coating the issue. I don't trust any dog that much, no matter how small, aggressive or well trained. Even if I did and I personally accepted the liability for the risk, many deliverymen, servicemen, repairmen, etc, aren't even allowed to enter the property for doing their jobs if the dog isn't restrained.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

pjwerneck said:


> That answer doesn't make sense. What am I supposed to do when I have strangers in the house them? Let the dog roam freely and attack them if he wants? I assume I will have to restrain him in some way when I have strangers around. I'm not saying he will be restrained all the time.
> 
> Now, if what you're saying is that I'm wrong in assuming even that I should restrain him when strangers are inside, fine, then I'll be glad if you can explain what's the correct thing to do when I have strangers around the house that I don't want the dog to be friendly with later.
> 
> ...


A good GSD should be fine with strangers/guests that YOU allow into your home and at the same time be able to discern between someone you are inviting into your home vs someone with ill intent. 

I trained mine to stay in a down when guests come to avoid the initial crowding and excitement at the the door, once things have settled, they are released to meet and greet. We had 4 kids from my older sons wrestling team come to our home unexpected last night, never met any of them, no problems at all. Now if one of those scamming meth head phony sales people come their reaction is quite different, no need to keep them out doors, just train them.


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

pjwerneck said:


> That answer doesn't make sense. What am I supposed to do when I have strangers in the house them? Let the dog roam freely and attack them if he wants? I assume I will have to restrain him in some way when I have strangers around. I'm not saying he will be restrained all the time.
> 
> Now, if what you're saying is that I'm wrong in assuming even that I should restrain him when strangers are inside, fine, then I'll be glad if you can explain what's the correct thing to do when I have strangers around the house that I don't want the dog to be friendly with later.
> 
> ...



A properly trained and socialized German Shepherd, is not going to attack a person, you, his leader have INVITED into your home. 

You can train him to go to an area and lay down, and not allow him to interact with the stranger. He does not need to be friends with them. 

He will understand the difference if that person just enters the home or is threatening you or your family. 

I worry about your expectations for the dog and your expectation of the breed. A dog that will actively engage a threat is not just born. There is a whole lot if ongoing training to get that level of protection. Most GSD, without training in protection will give a lot of bluff, a lot if barking and growling, but won't actively "attack" a stranger. If that's what you want, then you need to look now for a trainer in your area tat can help you. And you need to decide if the liability if that dog is something you want with a young family. Your children will have friends over, you may have friends stop by. Do you want the liability if a dog that chooses who to "attack" without your guidance? 

As for sleeping outside. I don't have an opinion. Many people have primarily outdoor dogs. As long as the dog get proper socialization, care, training and excersise, inside or out is personal preference. That said. A dog can be trained to not get on furniture, to not enter certain rooms, to not go upstairs, so it's not mutually exclusive. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

In your initial post, you said the dog will live and eat outside. Now you're coming back and saying that is not the case. I don't see how we can give you any useful advice if we are getting conflicting information like this. Good luck.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Nigel said:


> A good GSD should be fine with strangers/guests that YOU allow into your home and at the same time be able to discern between someone you are inviting into your home vs someone with ill intent.


That's great, and I don't doubt that at all, but as I said, I don't trust any dog that much, no matter how well trained.

I had many dogs, all well-trained and well-behaved, and one of them, a small terrier who was one of the most friendly dogs I've ever seen, attacked a deliveryman once, for apparently no reason at all. I've learned the hard way that dogs aren't as predictable as many people would like them to be.

As I said, even if the dog is perfectly able to discern that, many servicemen aren't allowed by their own companies to enter the property if the dog isn't restrained. I guess they've had their shares of employees being attacked by dogs whose owners claimed were well-behaved and obedient.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> A properly trained and socialized German Shepherd, is not going to attack a person, you, his leader have INVITED into your home.


In a perfect world, yes, but I don't trust any dog that much, well trained or not. As I already said, even if I do, many people don't, and some people aren't allowed to enter my property to do their jobs if the dog is not restrained.



> I worry about your expectations for the dog and your expectation of the breed. A dog that will actively engage a threat is not just born. There is a whole lot if ongoing training to get that level of protection. Most GSD, without training in protection will give a lot of bluff, a lot if barking and growling, but won't actively "attack" a stranger. If that's what you want, then you need to look now for a trainer in your area tat can help you.


No, that's not at all what I want. I want the dog primarily as a pet. Being a guard dog is secondary, more for intimidation and deterrence than to actually attack someone, that's why I want a GSD and not a beagle. If someone actually breaks in, I have alarms, guns, a safe room, the police and the security company are 4 blocks away. I expect the dog to bark if someone gets in and to look like threat.



> As for sleeping outside. I don't have an opinion. Many people have primarily outdoor dogs. As long as the dog get proper socialization, care, training and excersise, inside or out is personal preference. That said.


I was led to believe that GSDs are more prone to separation anxiety if left outside. If what you're saying applies to them, that's the kind of answer I'm looking for. Thanks.



> A dog can be trained to not get on furniture, to not enter certain rooms, to not go upstairs, so it's not mutually exclusive.


I'm well aware of that. All the dogs I had were trained like that, and knew their limits. I have no problems with that, and expected to do the same if I get a GSD, but during my research I was led to believe the GSD might have problems with that.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> In your initial post, you said the dog will live and eat outside. Now you're coming back and saying that is not the case. I don't see how we can give you any useful advice if we are getting conflicting information like this. Good luck.


There's no conflict if you read the initial post carefully. I said the dog will be allowed to go in and out during the day as he pleases, and even stay inside when we're doing some family activity, but will sleep and eat outside.


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

If the dog is properly trained and socialized, why would you have to worry about the dog attacking a guest?


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Ok. So if you are having workmen in your home, you want them to think that dog is dangerous. I actually get that. My suggestion would be, after raising the puppy with proper socialization and training, you can teach it to bark on command. So if a workman comes in, you can have th dog on leash and he can bark. Nothing says you can't tell the workman he is a "biter", even if he is not. 

Because they bond very strongly to the family, they can be prone to separation anxiety. But it sounds to me like the dog would spend all day with you guys most of the time. Most of us on the board have jobs. The dogs stay home. They are fine. 

But a GSD without proper excersise, mental and physical stimulation, do tend to act out due to boredom. They can become destructive and barky. But if you actually plan in training and exercising the dog, as you say you are, you may not have that issue. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

pjwerneck said:


> In a perfect world, yes, but I don't trust any dog that much, well trained or not. *As I already said, even if I do, many people don't, and some people aren't allowed to enter my property to do their jobs if the dog is not restrained.*
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's not at all what I want. I want the dog primarily as a pet. Being a guard dog is secondary, more for intimidation and deterrence than to actually attack someone, that's why I want a GSD and not a beagle. If someone actually breaks in, I have alarms, guns, a safe room, the police and the security company are 4 blocks away. I expect the dog to bark if someone gets in and to look like threat.


The bolded, I keep mine secured when service people come and I'm sure others here do the same. Even if your dog is very well behaved with strangers, the delivery guy, cable guy etc... Would probably appreciate not having your dog getting in the way of doing their job, no one likes a cold nose in their rear! Lol! 

I think your first post gave people the wrong impression and I think your expectation of intimidation and deterrence are reasonable. Why don't you research the breed a little further and make your decision. A GSD may work out just fine. Do your homework when selecting a breeder regardless of the type of dog you choose, the right dog will make all the difference.


----------



## Montu (Oct 9, 2012)

Yes you can keep a GSD/ any dog alive..congrats

there are many bad dog owners and at first I gave you credit for coming on here and asking if a GSD was a good fit..but when every reply on a GSD forum says no...I think you should take a hint.

Since you most likely will ignore those that tell you not to get a gsd I'll at least try and help a little....if the dog can come inside during the day why wont you allow it to sleep inside? You don't trust it while your not watching it? if that's the case why not crate train?


----------



## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

As a first time GSD owner, I have to say I was surprised to see how much they bond with their humans. My GSD does not suffer from separation anxiety, but he's always with us when we're home. Based on my personal opinion I would not recommend a GSD. 

Growing up I hated shepherds. Most of my family members had GSD, and they all stayed outside. I never trusted any of those dogs, and I never saw the kind of bond that I have with my GSD. And I trust my dogs 100%. It's not that my family members did not spend time with their dogs, but they were never able to become a part of the family as my dogs are. 

As for people being deterred by your dog, I think the fact that you own a GSD is a good deterrent by itself. Dexter is very sweet to people who come to the house while we are there and will lick them to death. It's a very different situation when the same people come to the house when we are not home. I think a well balanced dog knows the difference, regardless of the breed. My lab was very protective of us and the house, not necessarily something I would have expected given his breed.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> If the dog is properly trained and socialized, why would you have to worry about the dog attacking a guest?


Because that's a risk I'm not willing to take. If humans are prone to confusion and misunderstanding, and sometimes tragedies happen because of that, it's naive to believe a dog can't.

I have a relative who was attacked by her own guard dog, who was trained by a professional. The dog apparently confused the tendinitis arm band she was wearing with the arm guard the trainer used, bit her arm, she hit the dog and you can imagine what happened after that. She was seriously injured, had to undergo surgery, and the dog had to be put down. The dog was very well trained and behaved, even friendly with strangers if introduced gradually, but nobody even remotely considered it would attack the owner.


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

A lot of people call themselves Professional Trainers. That doesn't make it so.

It's also possible the dog did not have the correct temperament for that type of work and was pushed into it anyway thinking everything would work out.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Montu said:


> but when every reply on a GSD forum says no...I think you should take a hint.


Not when it's clear they misread my question.



> Since you most likely will ignore those that tell you not to get a gsd I'll at least try and help a little....


Not at all, but I need rational answers to make a decision, not passionate ones. I see a lot of passion around here, and this is good, but I have to ignore a 'no' coming from a person who seems to believe someone shouldn't have a dog if he is not willing to treat it in the same way they do. I need objective, rational answers, in order to make a decision.



> if the dog can come inside during the day why wont you allow it to sleep inside You don't trust it while your not watching it?


The why is not relevant. I think dogs should sleep and eat outside. Period. I don't need to know if someone thinks I'm a jerk for thinking that, or if that decision is consistent with letting the dog come in during the day, etc. All I need to know is if GSDs have a genuine problem with that.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I agree with Michael - for a dog to seriously attack its owner, there has to be some fundamental flaw in the dog's temperament. A solid dog wouldn't do that, or will let go the instant it realized his mistake. 

This was not a training issue - but a dog issue. There are a lot of so called professonal trainers out there that have flashy websites and give a good spiel, but all they produce are fear-biters, not guard dogs.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

OK I'm going to cut you a break! People that ask questions get some flack and still hang in there always impress me so, here's my take.

Your conditions as stated preclude a lot of us, some conditions apply some don't. 

So my take is it sounds like I have the kind of dog your asking about. First, if I have folks that he is not going to see again he goes in the back bed room period. He's not a big fan of company. We don't have a lot of guest and everybody that comes over is suspicious to him.

He is a lot different than my Boxer and BullMastiff/Pitt mix they loved company and people. I was never worried about them with large groups of people during holidays, my GSD that is no longer the case. If I have a large gathering planned he is my first thought!

I had to work with him a lot to get him safe around people. In the past that was something I had always done as a matter of course. With my GSD it was a necessity! First dog I ever had that I was concerned would bite the crap out of someone! Once I had gotten him people and kid safe in public, he was better able to handle one on one company at home.

One or two folks over he will go to his bed in the living room and stay there but he will watch company like a hawk. He just not a fan of "people" in his space.

He sleeps in the house, he is part of the family. He understands the nighttime pattern of the home because he is part of it! He knows what the night time patterns are in the home because he is part of them, he doesn't have to wonder... is that a toilet flushing at midnight or a fridge door opening at 2:00 am etc, etc,

He knows there are other dogs on both sides of our house he pays them no mind, He knows we have neighbors who use there backyard, he pays them no mind. He doesn't bark unless someone is approaching the front door, not someone walking on the sidewalk outside the front window. And he never growls (not talking play growl) if he growls..it means something serious is going down! And he's perfect in the house alone no issues ever.

Had I done the same training but he slept outside at night..I have no idea what I'd have today.

He was a rescue raised from 7 months and apparently a sound stable dog. Not a nerve bag, I did handle his "people" correctly but I unknowingly got a break and had a sound dog that only needed to know the rules.

But I don't have kids and don't have the potential for people unknown to me or him dropping.

My GSD is just not a people friendly dog, he's very aloof, even when he is being petted by strangers on a walk he could careless, he looks at me. 

I know lots of folks do have people happy GSD's but, that's not my experience. But my guy has bounded well with my pack and sleeping with the pack (indoors) is part of that.

But knowing what I know now, if I had a family with kids and the potential for (kids/strangers) coming over a GSD would not be my first choice!

Maybe others that are a little less ticke off now can provide there input?


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> Because they bond very strongly to the family, they can be prone to separation anxiety. But it sounds to me like the dog would spend all day with you guys most of the time. Most of us on the board have jobs. The dogs stay home. They are fine.


Yep, but every once in a while the dog will have to stay alone for a few days. There will be someone coming to take care of him. From my experience with dogs my whole life, they all get depressed and anxious when the owners aren't around, and are incredibly happy when you come back, but what I read about GSDs led me to believe that could be a problem with them.


----------



## belladonnalily (May 24, 2013)

I would think an "outside dog" would be more likely to bite without provocation than an "inside dog", but thats just me. I'd crate instead of chain, if you need to confine him. 

I've read tons on dogbite liability and breed restrictions, and statistics seem very clear that the majority of unwarranted attacks happen with dogs that are chained regularly. 

My GSD will bark ferociously at the door, but once the stranger is invited inside, he becomes a teddy bear.

Would I leave him alone with a clueless stranger? No, but I trust him to look to me and I have to take responsibility for him by training, supervising and knowing him. 
Just my two cents.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> I agree with Michael - for a dog to seriously attack its owner, there has to be some fundamental flaw in the dog's temperament. A solid dog wouldn't do that, or will let go the instant it realized his mistake.
> 
> This was not a training issue - but a dog issue. There are a lot of so called professonal trainers out there that have flashy websites and give a good spiel, but all they produce are fear-biters, not guard dogs.


Agreed, exactly why starting with a solid, well balanced dog is so important.

On the inside vs outside issue, mine are kept indoors with me day and night, that's my choice and it works well for us, but as long as all the dogs needs are met, it's not an issue to keep one outside. We got our first 2 gsds from a BYB (barnyard breeder) the guy has sheep, it was the dogs job to watch over them 24/7, sometimes in subzero temps. She (their dam) will be 10 this year and she is still going strong, aloof but well adjusted with strangers, all in all she's a happy dog and does her job well.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> OK I'm going to cut you a break! People that ask questions get some flack and still hang in there always impress me so, here's my take.


I can easily filter the more passionate ones. Don't worry. 



> But knowing what I know now, if I had a family with kids and the potential for (kids/strangers) coming over a GSD would not be my first choice!


That's the kind of input I was looking for. Thanks. Indeed, if mine turns up to be like yours, I'd think it was a wrong decision. How much of that can you attribute to it being a rescue with 7 months? Maybe it was mistreated somehow before you?


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Castlemaid said:


> I agree with Michael - for a dog to seriously attack its owner, there has to be some fundamental flaw in the dog's temperament. A solid dog wouldn't do that, or will let go the instant it realized his mistake.
> 
> This was not a training issue - but a dog issue. There are a lot of so called professonal trainers out there that have flashy websites and give a good spiel, but all they produce are fear-biters, not guard dogs.


The trainer was strongly recommended, had a lot of experience. The dog was always well-behaved before that event. After too, as a matter of fact. Anyway, the point is that it was an unpredictable event, and it's easy to point to flaws in the dog's temperament or training after the tragedy happens and someone is injured. I'd rather be safe than sorry.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

So I my reading comprehension skills are bad, because I understood that the dog will live outside because you typed, in your intro post, that the dog will live outside. :shrug:



pjwerneck said:


> There's no conflict if you read the initial post carefully. I said the dog will be allowed to go in and out during the day as he pleases, and even stay inside when we're doing some family activity, but will sleep and eat outside.





pjwerneck said:


> 1. I don't plan on keeping the dog chained in the yard unless we have strangers visiting, but I don't like dogs inside the house all the time either. It's fine for them to get in and out when they need something, or to stay for a while when we are doing some family activity, but they must* live* and eat outside We have a small winter garden inside the house where he can stay when it's too cold outside, but that's it.



GSDs are velcro dogs. They like to follow you to the bathroom, even, and stand out there as you take a shower. 
Based on what you said, you may just want to find another breed what isn't quite so needy. 
My dog lives for the moment when he interacts with me. Even penned in the living room, with all there, he mopes because he can't be *right there* at our feet.


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Unfortunately, sometimes that is the only way they are discovered. More often than not though there are signs that the trainer should see that indicates the dog is not suitable for that type of work.

If this was a really 'perfect' dog, then it is possible there was an underlying cause such as illness or even age.


----------



## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

Here is my experience. I have a fairly independent gsd. She didnt mind if I got out of sight when she was a puppy, but she is very attached to our family - even as an independent dog. She is always in the same room. If I go in the bedroom for the night, e en if in a dead sleep she will follow and come to her crate by my bed. In the evening she has a whole apartment to pick from yet she sleeps within 10 feet of us.

As far as leaving for a few days. We boarded her not at home twice. She was fine with that. However, once we tried leaving her at home and having a friend feed her for two days. That really upset her. We have an exercise pen we contain her in indoors for when we leave. We left her in the pen and my friend came over to walk her three times. For three months after we came back, if we left her in the pen and tried to leave for even 15 min, she would howl and cry because she thought we would be gone for a few days. I dont think she liked being left at home alone. Our apartment is her home, but only when people around. She treats boarding facilities as going on a fun adventure. So I wouldnt get a gsd if you dont want them to sleep inside or if you have to leave a lot. Im sure they can be trained to tolerate it, but they really dont like it


----------



## Montu (Oct 9, 2012)

OK

All I ask is for you to look into crate training and see if it's something you could do, maximum time inside with it's people will help create a proper bond for any dog..but especially a GSD.

My sister, has 2 out door only GSD's...they are alive and "healthy" but they can never live up to their expectations (training, manners, destructiveness)..they just don't get enough attention.

if she would have asked me I would have told her not to get GSD's but hey....I can be more blunt to strangers over the internet.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

pjwerneck said:


> I can easily filter the more passionate ones. Don't worry.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the kind of input I was looking for. Thanks. Indeed, if mine turns up to be like yours, I'd think it was a wrong decision. How much of that can you attribute to it being a rescue with 7 months? Maybe it was mistreated somehow before you?


With rescues you never know? I was either his first or second foster, he was grabby with treats and that was easily fixed he just didn't know.

If he had serious fundamental issues, I now think, I would not have had as much success with him as I did. 

He seemed to adapt well we were a two person three dog home, that's what he knew out the box.He saw company for the first time,and they were greeted with a low growl??? I was ...who the heck is this dog???

Had the same dog came into a home with kids out the box..maybe he would be a friendly people happy dog?

My experience with my other dogs raised from puppies not 7 months olds is vastly different, never gave people a second thought, just never an issue. 

My experience with my GSD much different,raised the same way but breed characteristic
came true.

I don't know if sleeping outside at night would have made a difference? It would not be a chance, I would be willing to take!

You have to do everything right! With a GSD if you setup preconditions out the gate...you're on your own. You could tell us how it went?

As for me and my dog, yep I would have another one just like him! Normally you don't get a chance to test your dog ( oh and by the way he was a "Breeder reject, he has "wobblers"). But... on a regular day on a regular walk this is what he did....

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/399905-what-would-my-dog-do.html

Would sleeping outside have made a difference in the bond he had with me? I have no idea? But it's a chance "I" would not be willing to take!


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

montu said:


> if she would have asked me i would have told her not to get gsd's but hey....i can be more blunt to strangers over the internet.


lol


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

A GSD of solid, stable, correct temperament s/b able to tolerate people well even if s/he doesn't particularly welcome them. For the dog to know your family, friends, routines & expectations the dog must be part of the family. This is essential. Dogs can sleep outside & still be part of the family but all too often good intentions fall by the wayside & the dog is left alone most of the time with very little training or attention.

Your posts have changed somewhat in their emphasis. For an example, you initially were concerned at the dog being alone for several hours while you later acknowledged there are times when you will be gone for several days. Before acquiring a dog you need to resolve these issues with yourself. How much time will you have to dedicate to the dog? How committed are you to training, housebreaking, socializing & exercising the dog? IF you don't truly have the time needed, then it's a bad idea to acquire a dog, any dog.

IF a stranger will be taking care of your dog while you're gone it's important that the dog know & trust the person well before you actually leave. You will need to be certain the dog will allow the person on the property even in your absence. 

Dogs are considerably more trustworthy, more consistent & more predictable than people. Regardless of how you ultimately decide to manage, control & contain any dog you get, I hope that you develop mutual trust & respect. From some of your posts trust seems to be lacking. 

Note, chaining dogs, as noted several times here, is just a very, very bad idea. Many dogs aren't innately trusting enough to feel secure while chained & the only response they're left with is to aggress.

IF you're acquiring a dog locally, communicate extensively with local breeders to determine exactly what temperament they're selecting for. It's possible that GSDs in countries outside the USA are bred for more suspicion, more reactivity, lower threshholds, more civil aggression etc. It's important to know these things before deciding on the dog (& breeder). IF that's the case, if it's feasible to import from another country, I'd strongly recommend that you consider it. Powder keg dogs that are poised to go off, are not a good idea for a family dog, especially families that have children.


----------



## lennyb (Jan 1, 2014)

Not to tick anyone off but if I read this right. Your home has 10' walls, electric fence top, monitored home alarm, multiple guns, a janitor and what ever else I missed.. And you need a guard dog?? I don't think a dog Is gonna make much of a difference at this point. I understand a mans need to protect his family but really. Either you live in some sort of federal / government area, an extremely well to do area or have a really nice house in a really bad area (mansion in south central?). But reguardless if you need that much security then its probably time to move.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Would sleeping outside have made a difference in the bond he had with me? I have no idea? But it's a chance "I" would not be willing to take!


So very, very true. Well put!


----------



## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

For the third time said:


> I don't understand this - if the dog can come and go as he pleases why would he only be allowed in for an "activity"? What if he staying inside is what he wants, will you force him to go outside? That's not truly "coming and going as he pleases"
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

RubyTuesday said:


> Your posts have changed somewhat in their emphasis. For an example, you initially were concerned at the dog being alone for several hours while you later acknowledged there are times when you will be gone for several days.


Nope. I never said that. What I said is that both my wife and I telecommute and stay at home most of the time, so we won't even leave the dog alone while at work, as many people do. On the other hand, every once in a while we have to make some business trips, so the dog could be alone for a few days during that.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Ok-- good luck. You will do what you think is right for you.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Eiros said:


> I don't understand this - if the dog can come and go as he pleases why would he only be allowed in for an "activity"?


Sorry if it sounds harsh, but as I said before, understanding my reason is not a requirement. What I need to know is if that's a problem for a GSD, and if it's critical enough that I should consider another breed.



> What if he staying inside is what he wants, will you force him to go outside? That's not truly "coming and going as he pleases"


As I said, he may stay inside during the day, if that's what he wants and he's not disturbing our work routine, etc, but eating, sleeping and anytime someone says 'out', he should go outside. Every single dog I had lived happily by those rules, with no problem at all, but I was led to believe this could be a problem for a GSD.

Some people here already told me that's no problem at all, as long as its needs for attention, care and training are neglected. If that's the case, it's no different from other dogs I had.

I don't have everything I want, why a dog should?


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

lennyb said:


> not to tick anyone off but if i read this right. Your home has 10' walls, electric fence top, monitored home alarm, multiple guns, a janitor and what ever else i missed.. And you need a guard dog?? I don't think a dog is gonna make much of a difference at this point. I understand a mans need to protect his family but really. Either you live in some sort of federal / government area, an extremely well to do area or have a really nice house in a really bad area (mansion in south central?). But reguardless if you need that much security then its probably time to move.


lol


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

lennyb said:


> Not to tick anyone off but if I read this right. Your home has 10' walls, electric fence top, monitored home alarm, multiple guns, a janitor and what ever else I missed.. And you need a guard dog??


The initial post wasn't very clear on this, but I don't need a guard dog. I need a dog primarily as a family pet, who is also good with children, and who is also big and intimidating. I don't expect the dog to attack intruders, nor will I train him for that. I only expect him to bark at trespassers and look like a threat for someone considering a break-in attempt.

Frankly, if I could choose a breed regardless of that, I'd go with a Labrador or a Weimaraner, which are great pets and great with children, but they don't look very intimidating.



> I don't think a dog Is gonna make much of a difference at this point.


Trust me. It does make a difference for me.



> I understand a mans need to protect his family but really. Either you live in some sort of federal / government area, an extremely well to do area or have a really nice house in a really bad area (mansion in south central?).


I understand your astonishment, but here's the kicker: I live in Brazil, not in the US. I lived in Europe and the Middle East, I've been to the US, and I can understand how baffling this can be for you, but unfortunately, that is the bare minimum you have to do around here if you have a nice house and you want some peace of mind when you go to sleep. I don't live in any huge city with the slums and drug traffickers you see on the news, it's a small town in a rural area, where life is as boring as it can be... but you can't have just white picket fences.

Consider, for instance, that legal firearms are incredibly expensive and difficult to obtain in Brazil, and I only have mine because I'm a licensed sport shooter. I'm not supposed to use those guns for home defense, and I will get into legal trouble if I do, but obviously, if it gets down to that and the lives of my family, I won't think twice. The burglars don't know that, and they expect most houses won't have a gun inside. I'd rather have them avoid my house entirely because of the walls, fences and the big dog in the yard, than actually breaking in and realizing their mistake only when they have a gun pointed at them.



> But reguardless if you need that much security then its probably time to move.


Can't argue with that, but I have good enough reasons to be here now.


----------



## nktigger99 (Aug 22, 2006)

pjwerneck said:


> The initial post wasn't very clear on this, but I don't need a guard dog. I need a dog primarily as a family pet, who is also good with children, and who is also big and intimidating. I don't expect the dog to attack intruders, nor will I train him for that. I only expect him to bark at trespassers and look like a threat for someone considering a break-in attempt.


But if the dog is outside of your home when you are asleep or not home....how would that be a threat to someone breaking into your home??? That I would think would be the time you worry about a break in. Plus a robber who is going to take on all your other security would likely just shot any dog that is in their way.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Ruby's post, informative and good suggestions. 

I think key for you if you get a gsd, is finding a good breeder, good socialization especially with kids, since you have a child, and I assume that child has friends that will visit. 

I do, however, think, it may be an issue if you say, allow the dog in the house, hang out whatever, then night time it's outside looking in. This may be a problem, barking, separating, etc. They can be a "needy" breed and are not dummies, they know 'my family is inside and I'm not", and it may be an issue, with a puppy especially. 

I'm certainly not saying they are unadaptable, I'm saying it's a possibility to think on.

Left outside to their own devices, they can become destructive (as in do you have gardens? Mind land mines being dug?) 

Mine have never spent a night outside, the one I have now, is sooooooo bonded to me, if she goes outside by herself, well she wants ME out there with her, if I'm not, she'll sit at the door and wait, and if she get po'd about it, she'll start sniveling, barking, throwing herself at the slider.. She does not suffer from SA, she's fine in the house when I go to work, or wherever, she just 'wants' to be with me..

Some food for thought anyhow.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

My guy will go outside at night sometimes in way below freezing weather. And it surprises me he won't make a sound zero nothing! If someone happens to be in the storage center behind our property at midnight he will make a half hearted bark and I'll go, Oh crap the dog is outside!! 

My Boxer NO!!, she'd dash out go potty and back at the door in minutes if not seconds!

But my GSD's place is by me, our biggest problem is he's black. If I'm in the living room late at night and my wife is the back bedroom..he likes to stay in the hallway to keep an ear out for both of us! Turning on the lights is required to prevent tripping over him at night! 

Not really sure how a dog in the yard is much use if you have an intruder in the house myself? But that wasn't your question.


----------



## Alice13 (Feb 21, 2014)

We keep ours in the yard too as my mum has problems with letting dogs into the house. I think it should be fine. Yes, I admit this is my first gsd and gsds should not be treated like other dogs but as far as I've observed, most of the people in my country keep their gsds out too. For example, my neighbours and friends who have a gsd. In fact the family that stays opposite my house have had many gsds and they have all been kept outside. I don't see any problems with their dogs due to where they keep them and even mine seems to be doing pretty fine. Most people in my country only keep house dogs in. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

German Shepherd Dogs _are_ house dogs.


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

pjwerneck--

Sir, thoughout all this thread, I have been curious about something, and maybe we need just a bit more information. Why is it so important to you that the dog NOT spend the night in your house, if you are willing to have him in there during the day? Certainly if he were properly crate trained, he wouldn't be a threat to your possessions. I think that is one thing that everyone here who has GSDs is objecting to. Is that carved in stone, or is it something you might reconsider?


----------



## Alice13 (Feb 21, 2014)

Alice13 said:


> We keep ours in the yard too as my mum has problems with letting dogs into the house. I think it should be fine. Yes, I admit this is my first gsd and gsds should not be treated like other dogs but as far as I've observed, most of the people in my country keep their gsds out too. For example, my neighbours and friends who have a gsd. In fact the family that stays opposite my house have had many gsds and they have all been kept outside. I don't see any problems with their dogs due to where they keep them and even mine seems to be doing pretty fine. Most people in my country only keep toy or small breed dogs in.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

German Shepherds are just about as noble as we allow them to be. 

I don't see mine as needy toddlers who have to have there nose very close to my butt 24/7. 

My dogs sleep inside mostly because they will bark too much at wildlife and disturb my neighbors. Other wise I would let them choose.

I had one before the two I have now that preferred to sleep outside and she did until she got older and began to have medical problems.

Chip: You would have never intruded into my home past her. They don't need to be inside to be a deterrent.

I really believe a lot of the posts on this thread represent human fears and are not based in reality. 

This is a breed that came from cold snowy countries in Europe from herding lines. They lived outside and worked all day and slept while protecting outside at night.

We are creating the nervy, have to be in the house, must not leave your side dependent creatures, that the breed is tending toward. 

Your right Michael, the way we are going they will be nothing but house dogs in awhile.

To the OP. The key is the dog you ultimately select. A strong nerved stable GSD can be what you want whether others **** it or not. A nervous dependent one, well that won't work.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

nktigger99 said:


> But if the dog is outside of your home when you are asleep or not home....how would that be a threat to someone breaking into your home???


It's very hard for a burglar to break into my house, and even harder to go in and out without being arrested, injured or killed, but he needs to get close, at least inside the gates, to realize that fact. A competent criminal might figure some way to case the house before and realize it's a bad idea, but a petty burglar, drug addict, etc, who acted on impulse or without a lot of concern for ihis own safety, only learns that fact during an attempt.

That's the kind of criminal that concerns me, and a dog that looks threatening is a great deterrent for that. I don't want a dog for protection per se. The house is very well protected. 

Unfortunately, I can't just hang a skull and crossbones flag in the yard.


----------



## Alice13 (Feb 21, 2014)

I do not want to argue with anyone over this matter. I am just telling you about the norm in my country. Our climate is the same throughout the year. We don't have winter or summer or autumn or spring. Just warm and humid weather all year long. Perhaps that is why the gsds here don't mind staying outside. But we are careful enough to make sure it has a comfortable home to stay. Mine has a kennel large enough for her to walk in it with a cooler in it to cool her down during hot days. She even has a small garden to herself. This is what most of the people here do. Here what we mean by house dogs are small breed dogs which don't shed much. In fact, we have a friend who's female gsd won 2nd place in an international competition. The competition included gsds fron Germany itself and she is a very well behaved dog with a striking posture and accuracy in whatever she does. Even she has a kennel outside the house. Her owner knows a lot about gsds and has been giving us a lot of advice regarding our dog. So I guess it is not really a problem here. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I do, however, think, it may be an issue if you say, allow the dog in the house, hang out whatever, then night time it's outside looking in. This may be a problem, barking, separating, etc. They can be a "needy" breed and are not dummies, they know 'my family is inside and I'm not", and it may be an issue, with a puppy especially.


Well... I had many dogs, I never sent one away, I'm not planning to start now. I haven't decided it yet, but let's say I get a GSD, I try to train it to eat and sleep outside as I said here and he becomes a problem because of that. I'd have no choice but to let him sleep inside and find some arrangement that works for me. I won't be very happy with it, but I won't just get rid of the dog because of that. I wouldn't be asking here and trying to make an informed decision if I weren't concerned with taking responsibility for it.

Some people here rush to the conclusion that if somehow the dog fails my expectations, it will be sent to a shelter. No way. I never did that, that's not something I'd do, nor the kind of example I want to set for my daughter. I don't treat dogs like a person, but I consider them part of the family, and you don't send someone from the family away when they act out.


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Alice13 said:


> I do not want to argue with anyone over this matter. I am just telling you about the norm in my country. Our climate is the same throughout the year. We don't have winter or summer or autumn or spring. Just warm and humid weather all year long. Perhaps that is why the gsds here don't mind staying outside. But we are careful enough to make sure it has a comfortable home to stay. Mine has a kennel large enough for her to walk in it with a cooler in it to cool her down during hot days. She even has a small garden to herself. This is what most of the people here do. Here what we mean by house dogs are small breed dogs which don't shed much. In fact, we have a friend who's female gsd won 2nd place in an international competition. The competition included gsds fron Germany itself and she is a very well behaved dog with a striking posture and accuracy in whatever she does. Even she has a kennel outside the house. Her owner knows a lot about gsds and has been giving us a lot of advice regarding our dog. So I guess it is not really a problem here. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Your post is fine Alice. Don't worry about it. 

Hello: I'm Andy and I'm glad you're here.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Sir, thoughout all this thread, I have been curious about something, and maybe we need just a bit more information. Why is it so important to you that the dog NOT spend the night in your house, if you are willing to have him in there during the day? Certainly if he were properly crate trained, he wouldn't be a threat to your possessions. I think that is one thing that everyone here who has GSDs is objecting to. Is that carved in stone, or is it something you might reconsider?


I grew up with dogs all my life, and as a rule, they always sleep and eat outside. They are allowed to enter and leave as they please during the day, but they aren't people. There's no real logic behind it, just a matter of principle. Some people get offended by that, as I get offended by the idea of dogs sleeping in my bedroom. There's no point in having an argument over that.

No, I'm not willing to reconsider that, but as I said, that's not relevant here. The issue isn't if I should allow the GSD to sleep inside, but if it will have problems if I don't. Some books and articles led me to believe that could be a problem, some reactions here reinforced that, but others told me it's not an issue.

So far, I tend to agree with that, and the issue seems to be more a general lack of attention and training from people who keep GSDs isolated outside, something I won't do, than a problem specific to sleeping outside.


----------



## Tattersail (Feb 5, 2014)

pjwerneck said:


> I grew up with dogs all my life, and as a rule, they always sleep and eat outside. They are allowed to enter and leave as they please during the day, but they aren't people. There's no real logic behind it, just a matter of principle. Some people get offended by that, as I get offended by the idea of dogs sleeping in my bedroom. There's no point in having an argument over that.
> 
> No, I'm not willing to reconsider that, but as I said, that's not relevant here. The issue isn't if I should allow the GSD to sleep inside, but if it will have problems if I don't. Some books and articles led me to believe that could be a problem, some reactions here reinforced that, but others told me it's not an issue.
> 
> So far, I tend to agree with that, and the issue seems to be more a general lack of attention and training from people who keep GSDs isolated outside, something I won't do, than a problem specific to sleeping outside.


No one is saying let him in your bed, I think what people are trying to understand is what is the difference between the dog being kenneled outside... or kenneled in the house?

Also, my only other worry is how you keep saying you will never trust any dog... That's just... off for me... If you can't trust your own dog, then why get him in the first place? I just think you're going to run into problems either way, the dog will sense that you don't trust him, which could in turn make him on edge, which will put you more on edge... and thus the never ending cycle.

Why invite an animal to share your home that you don't trust?


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Jack's Dad said:


> To the OP. The key is the dog you ultimately select. A strong nerved stable GSD can be what you want whether others **** it or not. A nervous dependent one, well that won't work.


I'm realizing that. The book I read led me to believe GSDs were generally more prone to separation issues, but from my talks with owners and breeders, it's not nearly as dramatic as I imagined. Frankly, from what most people have told me here and in other places, it's pretty much the same I've seen in most other dogs.

The only dog I had who wouldn't act like people say the GSD would was a Brazilian Fila, but they are a lot more serious and independent than any other dogs. Having a dog is like having another child in the family, but having a Fila is like having an old uncle sleeping on the couch. They have a very pragmatic and non-nonsense approach to everything. It's actually funny how serious they can be.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Tattersail said:


> No one is saying let him in your bed, I think what people are trying to understand is what is the difference between the dog being kenneled outside... or kenneled in the house?


Trying to understand that is the problem. Don't try to understand that. You won't. That's not the issue here. The issue is how much of a problem that would be for a GSD.



> Also, my only other key sign is how you keep saying you will never trust any dog...


No. You're extrapolating something I said regarding a very specific situation to a general one. I said I don't trust any big dog enough to leave it completely unrestrained when there are strangers around, as some people were suggesting I should do. I've seen that end badly, and it's easier to blame something else after it happened. This doesn't mean I don't trust the dog as a companion, this means I don't trust his judgement of what is a threat. Don't be offended by that. I don't trust most humans for that either.


----------



## pjwerneck (Feb 27, 2014)

Alice13 said:


> I do not want to argue with anyone over this matter. I am just telling you about the norm in my country. Our climate is the same throughout the year. We don't have winter or summer or autumn or spring. Just warm and humid weather all year long. Perhaps that is why the gsds here don't mind staying outside. But we are careful enough to make sure it has a comfortable home to stay. Mine has a kennel large enough for her to walk in it with a cooler in it to cool her down during hot days. She even has a small garden to herself.


As I said, I live in Brazil, but it's a mountainous southern region, so the summers are very warm and humid, but the seasons are well defined and winters can be very cold. I plan to build a kennel outside too, but we have a winter garden inside the house where the dog will be allowed to sleep during winter if outside is too cold.

What actually seems to be the issue here in Brazil isn't as much the weather as it is to find a reputable breeder. I've been offered more than one GSD when word was out that I was interested in buying one, but they had no papers, no health and temperament history on the parents, and some wouldn't even allow me to see the parents. I'm beginning to believe the GSD actually can be a good dog as any for my family, but I'll have a very hard time to find a good one.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Jack's Dad said:


> Your post is fine Alice. Don't worry about it.
> 
> Hello: I'm Andy and I'm glad you're here.


Ditto!


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

pjwerneck said:


> I'm realizing that. The book I read led me to believe GSDs were generally more prone to separation issues, but from my talks with owners and breeders, it's not nearly as dramatic as I imagined. Frankly, from what most people have told me here and in other places, it's pretty much the same I've seen in most other dogs.
> 
> The only dog I had who wouldn't act like people say the GSD would was a Brazilian Fila, but they are a lot more serious and independent than any other dogs. Having a dog is like having another child in the family, but having a Fila is like having an old uncle sleeping on the couch. They have a very pragmatic and non-nonsense approach to everything. It's actually funny how serious they can be.


Uh Oh don't go there GSD and Molosser very diffrent..my mistake! I was a Molosser guy first!


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

pjwerneck said:


> I'm beginning to believe the GSD actually can be a good dog as any for my family, but I'll have a very hard time to find a good one.


I'll just say he'd be fine in the living room but as you say that's not the point.

But finding a good one is very important! That above all else is key!


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

pjwerneck said:


> leave it completely unrestrained when there are strangers around, as some people were suggesting I should do.


Somebody said that??


----------



## Charles T Richard (Feb 25, 2014)

pjwerneck said:


> So, I recently moved to a small town with my wife and 2 year-old daughter. We're living in a house with a huge yard, 10 feet walls and fences, and we're thinking of having a dog. I'd like to have a dog that can be a good family pet, that can bond with my daughter as she grows up, and as a guard dog, since we already had a break-in attempt. I had a weimaraner in the past, and I considered getting another one, but I don't think they make very good guard dogs. I'm considering a German Shepherd now, but from what I've read about it in books and on this forum, I'm not so sure about it.
> 
> 1. I don't plan on keeping the dog chained in the yard unless we have strangers visiting, but I don't like dogs inside the house all the time either. It's fine for them to get in and out when they need something, or to stay for a while when we are doing some family activity, but they must live and eat outside. We have a small winter garden inside the house where he can stay when it's too cold outside, but that's it. Couches and beds are definitely out of limits. I've read that GSDs are more prone to separation anxiety and may get too anxious if left to sleep outside. Is that true?
> 
> ...


Simple answer, NO.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

never said, or didn't mean to imply if I did, that you'd send the dog off if something went wrong or it wasn't up to your expectations.

It boils down to this, no one can predict how any puppy/dog is going to adapt or not adapt to the situation you describe. 

I wouldn't leave my dogs outside at nite, but that is ME, others do it with no problems, but again, depends on the dog. To many factors come into play. 

I guess it would depend also on finding a good breeder , which may be hard in Brazil?

Are there any breeds that have good availability down there?

One thing that pops in my head, do you crate train? You could always get a crate, feed/crate the dog at nite inside? Even a garage?

Just a suggestion


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

If you get a dog that's been raised in a kennel, then it probably won't want to be in the house anyway. One of my neighbors has a GSD that was imported from Germany as a stud but he didn't have the drives that the breeder wants, so he was rehomed. Supposedly, this dog is absolutely miserable when he's cooped up indoors because he'd rather be outside - that's what he's used to. Maybe you could import one of these? I'm sure this dog would love your set up.


----------

