# Need help with color of puppy to pick:)



## jhoop371

Hi, we are planning on picking out a pup when they are ready. The mother is dark red/black from german lines, the father is tall and big and is kind of silver/tan and black. Really like the red and black. any ideas on what to look for when they are ready to go color wise. My first gsd I picked was black with tan coloring, by the time he was a year, he was tan with black. Right now of course they are all black with minimal brown since they are only 2 days old. just need any input/ideas. Thank you! (want black face and darker body)


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

Have the breeder pick one that matches what you are looking for i.e. temperament and drive wise. If there are two that are the same, then color should be last in deciding.


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## Castlemaid

It's hard to tell when they are very young. If colour is the only thing that will need to be taken into consideration, look for an adult dog of at least a year old of the exact coloring that you want.


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## Freestep

The breeder should be picking out the puppy for you, based on temperament suitability, not color. If it comes down to deciding between 2 or 3 pups that are equally suitable, you could choose the color you like best, but it's really hard to tell how much black the pup will end up with at maturity. Black and tans start out very dark, and the black recedes as they get older, but you never know exactly how much. Do you have photos of the parents?


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## doggiedad

i never agree with people when they say
don't pick a color or color is the last thing to pick.
GSD's come in several colors. within those colors
you can find a dog with a sound temperament,
strong nerves, low drive or high drive in the color
you want. when i decided i wanted a GSD the first
things i decided on was gender and color. i believed
any reputable breeder would have what i wanted.

i'm assuming you're usuing a reputable breeder. have you
owned a GSD? good luck with the new pup.


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## Gracie's My Girl

As others have said, color is definitely not the breaking point on finding the perfect puppy. 

Black and reds are by far my favorite color. When we picked out our puppy, I had no idea what color she would end up as. (Definitely uneducated in that area at that time! :blush Her mother was black and tan and the dad was black and red. I was happy that she turned out to be more red than tan.

Here is a photo of her at eight weeks...









...and now. She is actually a bit more red than the photo shows.









Have fun with the puppy picking process!


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## jhoop371

*color is not everything of course.*

Gracie is beautiful! Lover her color. I know it's hard to tell what they will look like at an early stage, was just curious if anyone had an idea what the two color parents would/might produce. Both parents are there and have great personalities which is what I wanted to see. Castlemaid..We want a puppy not a one year old with the "color" we want. Color is second, but we do have a preference. If color wasn't important in this breed, there would only be one color and not many that are bred for a certain color. Thanks everyone for their humble replies, I appreciate them!


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## Freestep

If red and black is your preference, why are you going with a breeder that is breeding a black and silver to a black and red? Why not find a breeder that only breeds black and red?


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## Rahrah

If you'd like a darker dog, pick a pup with darker parents. 2yrs is a fairly good indication of colour containment (though not always!) in a mature dog.

Also, the darker they are as puppies the more likely the darker they will be as adults...so choose the darkest one.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl

doggiedad said:


> i never agree with people when they say
> don't pick a color or color is the last thing to pick.
> GSD's come in several colors. within those colors
> you can find a dog with a sound temperament,
> strong nerves, low drive or high drive in the color
> you want. when i decided i wanted a GSD the first
> things i decided on was gender and color. i believed
> any reputable breeder would have what i wanted.
> 
> i'm assuming you're usuing a reputable breeder. have you
> owned a GSD? good luck with the new pup.


I agree with this.


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## qbchottu

Focus more on finding a pup that fits your lifestyle, personality and needs rather than finding a particular color. Take a look at the parents and that's what the pups should end up looking like (with the black/red and black/tans anyway).


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

doggiedad said:


> i never agree with people when they say
> don't pick a color or color is the last thing to pick.
> GSD's come in several colors. within those colors
> you can find a dog with a sound temperament,
> strong nerves, low drive or high drive in the color
> you want. when i decided i wanted a GSD the first
> things i decided on was gender and color. i believed
> any reputable breeder would have what i wanted.
> 
> i'm assuming you're usuing a reputable breeder. have you
> owned a GSD? good luck with the new pup.


Of course it's okay to seek out a reputable breeder that will have pups of a certain color, but that's not what's going on here. The way it was posted makes it seem that the puppy will be picked on color.
Also, to the OP, there are not so many colors because people breed for color, but just the opposite; there are so many colors because breeding is not focused on color.

The breeder should know what color possibilities there are with this breeding, and I hope your choice of breeder is based more than on just liking the parents ie parents are hip certified, titled or worked, etc


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## LARHAGE

I too agree that there is nothing wrong with selecting a puppy in the color you want, if you want a black/red pup than look for German Showline breeders with a litter of puppies out of black/red parents, than have the breeder select the puppy with the right temperament for you. ?


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## JakodaCD OA

what Larhage said

I think we all have color preferences, but if you pick by color only, you may end up with the color you want, but not the dog you want

Temperament (sound balanced dogs) and health are the number 1's and 2's on my list


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## horsegirl

I am sorry , but I guess I didnt know that GSD's came in Silver and black , I think what you are refering to is a dog with lack of pigment. Which in of itself is a concern if you are trying to get a pup that has some good pigment (dark black , deep tan and a nice black face mask) , the lack of pigment will be passed down to the offspring. 
If you are hoping for a good pigmented pup, I would make sure the parents are already exhibiting the above nice pigment. Another thing to think about, there are many red and blck dogs that while they look like they have good pigment (due to the dark red ) actually are lacking the "black" and consequently lacking pigment. Look for parents that have a nice contrast of black and tan or red and tan. A sure sign of lack of pigment is a dog with lighter eyes and no black masking on thier face as well as a saddle that is not defined.


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## horsegirl

doggiedad said:


> i never agree with people when they say
> don't pick a color or color is the last thing to pick.
> GSD's come in several colors. within those colors
> you can find a dog with a sound temperament,
> strong nerves, low drive or high drive in the color
> you want. when i decided i wanted a GSD the first
> things i decided on was gender and color. i believed
> any reputable breeder would have what i wanted.
> 
> i'm assuming you're usuing a reputable breeder. have you
> owned a GSD? good luck with the new pup.


like


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## MaggieRoseLee

LARHAGE said:


> I too agree that there is nothing wrong with selecting a puppy in the color you want, if you want a black/red pup than look for German Showline breeders with a litter of puppies out of black/red parents, than have the breeder select the puppy with the right temperament for you. &#55357;&#56842;


Exactly!

That way the breeder is still able to pick the best puppy for you. And you will end up with the puppy that is the color you want. 

You are right, there is a reason for some of the colors we see in the breed, and it is because people have a preference. So you go to a breeder who is breeding those, spend your money with them TO SUPPORT THEIR BREEDING PROGRAM that is in line with what you want in the breed, and you should end up with the dog you always wanted!


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## Wolfiesmom

I agree, look for parents with a dark pigment if you want a darker red and black. Here is my dog's mother and father and then my dog. Next I have included a different father bred to my dog's mother and the lighter dog that breeding produced.


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## Emoore

jhoop371 said:


> If color wasn't important in this breed, there would only be one color and not many that are bred for a certain color.


And in one fell swoop you tell everyone that you know nothing about genetics. This is an extremely ignorant statement. (Nothing wrong with being ignorant, just means you don't know.) The people who started this breed weren't going for specific colors. They bred good dogs to good dogs and those dogs happened to be different colors. Thus, a century later, we still have dogs that come in different colors. As others have said, color is the very _least_ important thing in this breed. 

In fact, a lot of folks-- myself included-- believe that when breeders started breeding specifically for the black and red look for the show ring to the exclusion of other colors, it was a major downfall moment in the breed.


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## jhoop371

*Yes I am Ignorant...*

I never claimed to be a breeder and genetic expert. I do however know there are several different colored shepherds bred to repeat that color, ie blk/red, blk/tan/ blk/blk, wht/wht, sable. Like I said earlier of course temperment is top on my list of requirements, figured that was a given without being stated. I was just curious of others ideas or experiences on what color they may turn out to be or what to look for when they are 8 weeks old. It was an innocent question of what I thought I could get stories or pictures from. Gracies Mom gave the perfect answer with pictures and the info she gave of her beautiful GSD that has the same colored parents of the pups I am looking at. I joined this website for info, fun, pictures, friendships, not to be belittled by all the experts out there. Whatever dog we go with I know my family will love and adore him as much as the next GSD owner!


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## Konotashi

To some breeders, color is important. To others, it's not. 
A good example would be West German showline breeders and working line breeders. 

If you are breeding WGSL dogs, you want the deepest, richest color you can get. Working line breeders typically plan breedings based on the working abilities, temperament, nerve, and drive of the dogs, with color as one of the last considerations.


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## jhoop371

Wolfiesmom..beautiful boys/girls! nice variety! Just never know exactly what you will get when they grow up


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## Freestep

jhoop371 said:


> I was just curious of others ideas or experiences on what color they may turn out to be or what to look for when they are 8 weeks old.


Well, black/tan and bicolor pups can look identical when they are 8 weeks old: mostly black, with tan paws, and a bit of tan on the chest and maybe the face. The black on the black/tan recedes to a saddle or blanket, while the black on the bicolor does not recede. It can be hard to tell black/tan from bicolor at this age, but the breeder should be able to tell you if bicolors are possible in the litter.

Sable looks totally different: Tan pup with black face and black stripe down the back.

Black, of course, is born black and stays black!

If you like a lot of black, choose the pup with the most black. If you like red, choose the pup with the reddest legs. 

But I think the most important thing, if color is important to you, is to choose parents that represent the color you want. If you like red, don't go with a parent that is "silver" where tan should be. If you want a black and red saddleback, you should be looking at German show lines--but be picky, as some of them may not have enough black for your taste. If you want a dark blanket back or bicolor, you should be looking at working lines.


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## jhoop371

*Thanks for the info!*

Thank you Freestep, lots of great info for future I totally mistated when I said Silver/black. The sire is tan/black, however we are going to check into some other breeders so there won't be any guessing It is amazing how all the colors change as they grow. I guess that is part of the fun, like Christmas every week watching them change. Will post when we find our "guy" Thank you again for sharing your experience, I truely appreciate all the helpful knowledge on this site.


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## MegansGrace

LARHAGE said:


> I too agree that there is nothing wrong with selecting a puppy in the color you want, if you want a black/red pup than look for German Showline breeders with a litter of puppies out of black/red parents, than have the breeder select the puppy with the right temperament for you. ?


Well said.


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## Liesje

Konotashi said:


> To some breeders, color is important. To others, it's not.
> A good example would be West German showline breeders and working line breeders.
> 
> If you are breeding WGSL dogs, you want the deepest, richest color you can get. Working line breeders typically plan breedings based on the working abilities, temperament, nerve, and drive of the dogs, with color as one of the last considerations.



This is WAY over-generalizing. There are high ranking V even VA dogs out there with (IMO) lack of color and pigment. Since it's safe to say about 98% of WGSL dogs are *already* black and red, color is not a major consideration for most WGSL breeders. The type has already been cookie-cutter'd as far as color and pigment.

I actually went with a working line because one of the things I wanted was more/better pigment and mask on the face.


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