# What is every day life with a working dog like?



## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

So since I got into dogs I really caught an interest in working dogs. More specifically the working line GSDs. You see all the videos of working line dogs in training, you know biting decoys, doing agility and what not, but no one ever posts about how every day life is with them. 

Seen several Mal videos and there are videos out there of how they are on a regular basis. From what I hear it's a breed with nonstop energy, which could be fun on some days I imagine. Still it's one breed I wouldn't mind having.

My current dog. Lobo, a 2 Year Old Overenthusiastic Needy at least 75-85% German Shepherd Mix who may or may not have working lines in him. I give him 3 20-40 minute walks a day and while he is typically calm inside the house, he can have play sessions that can go anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour long. Gets the zoomies from time to time. All in all he's a high energy dog with high prey drives and lots of intelligence and train ability and is very lovable.

So are working lines more or less like this? I mean I expect that when it comes to work, trainkng and dog sports that they would give it their all but I'm talking about every day life here. Is it constant energy, or does it depend on the lines? Do they have their moments of relaxation or do they want to be on the go all the time. The lines that interest me the most are the East German and the Czech Lines. But I'm curious as to how they are in every day lofe.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

A well bred working dog should have a good off switch and should be easy to live with. However, alot of people are breeding dogs specifically for competition and they live in kennels their whole lives. The breeders don't necessarily know how the dogs are in the house. I would take a cripple, blind, mangy mutt over a free dog from these types of breeders. 

Mine is DDR working line. He settles in the house, but needs some physical and mental stimulation. He is a whiner, which is the worst thing about him in the house. He isn't destructive or anything. He also paces sometimes and likes to jump up and follow us as soon as we move.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I have a half DDR/quarter Czech/quarter West German working line male and he is nervy and not super clear headed. He has lower prey drive, so it's difficult to get him to work for things because they have little value to him. He would run off the field during training if given the chance, even during obedience. He does appear to look extremely aggressive (especially during bitework) to people who don't really know what they're looking at. But all of his defense comes from fear. Again, not really easy to work with. In the house, he had no off switch for the first two years of his life, at all. He's gotten better with a little maturity. But he is still what I would call busy. He likes to wander the house. But he doesn't get into trouble at home, so there are worse things. But he was slowly driving me insane until he hit two.

I also have a West German WL bitch who is basically a dream dog. She's a monster during training. Wants to do all the things all the time. Drive for days. She is super easy to live with. She settles beautifully in the house. She's very bonded to me and just wants to be near me. 

They both require what I would say is a normal amount of physical exercise to be happy. Nothing too extreme. A couple of walks and some fetch and they are good to go. They both CAN easily go all day, though. I do two 15 minute obedience or tracking sessions (tracking takes a good hour total, if you include laying the tracks) with them six days a week, and then formal training with our trainer once or twice a week, which includes bitework.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

When she was in her prime, my girl was in harness as a working service dog most days of the week for at least part of the day, with one or two big days per week involving taking the train to Boston, walking from the train station to doctor's appointment, nearly a mile and back to take the train home. During this time all of her tasks were not 100% trained and we worked task training many days of the week, which she just ate up, couldn't get enough.

We lived in an apartment which did have a field behind it where she could play a little. She still preferred an offleash walk in the woods daily.

When she was about 4, and we had a house and a small fenced yard, she preferred an offleash walk (45 min to hr) per day, plus a play/training session, plus being in harness I would guess 3 days a week at that point.

She has always been able to settle in the house and would be quiet and fairly calm in the apartment or later house. But boy at go time, it was GO time.

I believe she could have willingly and happily done even more than I did with her. Also keep in mind that being a service dog, there were plenty of times that she was doing tasks in our apartment. There were days she was in harness for 8 hours straight if we were traveling, and she did not seem to struggle with this at all.

These days she is 10 and retired...and I would not say that has been easy for her. Her desire to learn and work and be important is really no less than it ever was...just her eyes and her health and her body can't always keep up anymore. She still goes for offleash walks daily and if she had her choice would train daily. I don't always get to her and it shows, she is frustrated by it.

My white boy is pretty active and busy, he does just about as much as she did in her prime, the biggest difference I could easily say is that he is pretty okay with time off from intense training and can entertain himself in the yard for an hour and then come in and sleep and not follow me around with the laser stare saying "WORK ME"

But you know, who knows what she might have been like if she had had a 3 acre yard when she was his age. She could not entertain herself because if she was outside she had to be strictly under my supervision since we didn't have a yard. So not apples to apples


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Athena has drives for days, loves biting anything. An overall pretty intense dog when she wants something. As a young pup she was very cold and distant. No hugs or affection to or from her. Used to get a lot of cold stares, if I tried to play slap face or wrestle her she was pretty intolerant. She showed no hesitation to bite me to tell me knock it off. She viewed everything including my other dogs as prey. I had to quit throwing balls when they were all out. She would wait for me to throw the ball so she could pursue Rosko. Upon biting him she would double back for the Chuck it thrower. Now that she is an older pup she has become a lot more tolerant. She is still ready to take it to violence with the other dogs if they test her patience and ignore her warnings. Still no hugs, her idea of affection is resting her head on your leg while she takes a 5 minute nap then she's gone. She is past the point of trying to bite me for playing or wrestling with her now I just get a stare like "really". That, I believe comes from a lot of training and bonding. She has learned that all good things come from me. She is a great dog. While inside she has a definite off switch. But is ready to go full bore anytime and anywhere. She is out going and social, and very vocal. 
Now she looks to have some showline mixed in with working lines. I am sure there are a lot more driven dogs. But for a first time IPO dog she is very nice to work with. 
I don't know that she would have been as easy to live with if we didn't do a lot of training and exercise from a young age. She is only ten months old so I can't wait to see what her adult self becomes.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

A true working dog (and that means temperament and drive) needs to be worked or will make a bad pet. If your lifestyle does not include a heavy dose of dog work, and be honest because your life does change... or should, don't get a true working dog. I say it that way as all working lines are not dogs that need a job. You could get a working line GSD that makes a fine pet. But the ones with moxi, mojo, whatever you want to call it will need more from you. 

All smart dogs are endearing but they need a job or you get destruction... or a high probability of destruction.

What do I mean by lifestyle....I have spent $5000 a year on training and gear, food, vet... etc for SAR work and I have driven about 5000K (and that is on the low end) to trainings, searches, and meetings. I train 2 times a week for 3-10 hours... It is my lifestyle. My friends that do IPO do about the same.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I just was talking with a breeder about this... it depends mostly on how the dog is raised. Some lines are known for being spinners or pacers, but the thing is, most of the dogs that are doing this are kennel dogs and never learn how to settle in the house or just be. They are either working or in the kennel. No wonder they never settle. 

My working line dogs get training daily (not at a club usually just with me), a good game of tug or fetch, and two off leash hikes and/or runs where they work on some basic OB, fetch, but mostly just get to be dogs and enjoy the woods.

As Karin said, a working line dog takes, well, a lot of work. And time. And really is a lifestyle. But even the highest energy, highest drive dogs can settle in the house and not be constantly strung out. My 17 week old pup, she gets trained in small intervals throughout the day when I am at home, and goes out on off leash hikes, and she's a pretty busy girl. But even she is learning to settle and chill out in the house. She's off chewing a bone right now. She comes from top IPO lines. 

If you meet the dog's needs, and it doesn't have to be through structured training as long as you put in the time and are willing to learn, I'd say just about any working line dog can settle in the house. 

Don't believe the mali-nuts or people who post pictures of a working dog with a destroyed couch behind her. That is an under-exercised, under-stimulated dog who is not having her needs met by the owner. Letting a working dog get so strung out that the only work they can find is to destroy the couch or ruin the house is the owner's fault. Meet the dog's needs and develop the skills to be a strong handler for a working dog, and you will be able to keep just about any working dog in the house. But I can't emphasize enough that owning such a dog takes time, and willingness to learn, and more ability to become a strong handler. And a good crate or kennel- sometimes it's just about management! 

Also, my working dogs are the biggest snugglers I've ever owned and absolutely crave physical attention. I'm not sure if it's a breed thing, but do not think that a working dog is going to be aloof or stand-offish. Mine would be lap dogs if they could. The puppy was, until she got too big.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have lived with (and worked and trained) working lines since 1985. Even pups from lines known for high level sport, can vary in their drive levels and their need for work. They need mental exercise, especially when they are young, but when they come with good nerves, they learn the house rules and how to settle easily. I sold two pups from my last litter to homes with kids. The one female was the nicest IPO prospect in the litter. Tons of drive for food, toys, and the rag/pillow. Dad would like to possibly do IPO, but the pup needed to also be a pet. She is great with the kids, hangs out with them, no stupid behaviors, is calm in the house. Even their vet loves her. Both families treat the pups like they expect them to behave.

My dogs don't get run into the ground every day to settle in the house, but they are best with some mental exercise (where they have to think and not just mindless ball play) at least 5 days a week. 

Deja the couch potato.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I have had working GSD of all lines. Some are a bit tougher than others. But I have never had one that didn't learn early on how to settle in the house. 

I am by no means a super active busy person. None of my dogs have ever gotten 2-3 hours of excersise every day. All of my dogs get interaction daily, their brains challenged daily(even if it's just body awareness and long downs) daily. Except my old girl, she does whatever the heck she wants. 

We get out and train each week, sometime 2-3 times a week for varying amounts of time in various disciplines, I try to give each capable dog a good hike 1-2 times a week, schedule depending. But it's nothing obscene. 

I have never had a dog that wasn't fine just chilling in the house. They do get cabin fever if the weather is horrible and it's many days between a good run or working session. But by the time they are stir crazy I am too. 

I do tell people that what makes a good working dog often doesn't make a good pet. And I believe that. But if you know how to engage, interact and challenge them, then it's not that hard to have a great family dog as well. It can't be about mindless excersise and no brain work.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> I have had working GSD of all lines. Some are a bit tougher than others. But I have never had one that didn't learn early on how to settle in the house.
> 
> I am by no means a super active busy person. None of my dogs have ever gotten 2-3 hours of excersise every day. All of my dogs get interaction daily, their brains challenged daily(even if it's just body awareness and long downs) daily. Except my old girl, she does whatever the heck she wants.
> 
> ...



This! I could have written this myself. I don't do anything crazy. They work for their meals and always have something to chew on if needed. 

I was instructing a decoy seminar last year, and one of the decoys said to my wife, "I love the way your dogs work, but I could never live with them." Six months later he came out, stayed at my house and worked dogs with me for a week. He turned to us and said "I can't believe these are the same dogs." He was amazed that while at home, they are just like every pet dog. Snuggle on the couch, sleep on the bed or their dog beds and just hang out. Again some are different than others. Xander needs something in his mouth most the time. He does lay down, but will change positions frequently. It's not bad at all, just not as settled as others.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

wow - I like all of the above responses .

this is very important " Both families treat the pups like they expect them to behave."

from day one , you make the rules and set the expectations to what you want them to be as adults.
that shows clear leadership on your part . No confusion. Trust .


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

If proper guidelines and boundaries are established as pups, I have never had a dog that wouldn't settle in the house. And I have had many many dogs over 46 years. As long as the basis of the dog whether it be working line or any line is good nerves, they will adapt to your house and lifestyle. Now if bad habits are allowed to manifest, or the dog is smarter than the owner, (having common sense) or folks don't engage their dogs in some way, then the home life can be problematic....BUT these are not the dog's fault but the owners,imo.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I have a few dogs(two are 'working in sport' dogs), they are all free in the home when we aren't there to supervise and they are very good alone. I have been lucky that the pups were always clean and not destructive. 

I agree with the posts above, teach them what is expected early on and as long as they are mentally and physically exercised, they do settle easily. 

I do think a dog living in a kennel environment may have more pent up energy(energy, not drive) because of the lack of stimulation that happens when a dog lives in a home situation. Then you do get the spinning, barking unable to settle dog when brought into the home. Which drives the owner nuts so out to the kennel the dog goes. 

When I backed off training my older dog, I could tell the difference in his demeanor. He became a bit more anxious when it was time for me to leave, he wanted to go too.
It took a few months for him to adjust to his new routine. He still goes to club but we aren't training several days a week like we use to.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

And as a few of us pointed out, mental exercise, not mindless exercise, though that is needed too. GSD need to use their brains and I and many others have found that using their brains tires them out far better than physical only exercise. When you do tons of physical exercise the dog gains conditioning and then just needs more exercise, but mental exercise gives them challenges and channels the desire to work. Gives them a job. It can be teaching tricks, find the shoe (hide a shoe and have them find it), find one of the kids that hides, find your toy (hmmmm, I do recommend a lot of scenting games), obedience before being allowed to chase the ball, etc.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Our working line- Karat our first Gsd who is now passed was incredibly calm in the house. He did not even try torture us with the sometimes quite but pained and sorrowful looks like we get now- lol. He might of looked at us like that way when we were not looking. In the house it was like his switch was truly off his expression reminded me that of the queens guard - lol!!! When leash came out he would squeal like a baby in delight a night and day transformation. He was a calm dog though with intense but quiet energy with incredible discipline.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> I have had working GSD of all lines. Some are a bit tougher than others. But I have never had one that didn't learn early on how to settle in the house.
> 
> I am by no means a super active busy person. None of my dogs have ever gotten 2-3 hours of excersise every day. All of my dogs get interaction daily, their brains challenged daily(even if it's just body awareness and long downs) daily. Except my old girl, she does whatever the heck she wants.
> 
> ...


Exactly! Tire their mind and you will have a calm, easy dog to live with. My WL girl who is currently 5 years old will play and run from morning until night if you let her. I'm not sure I've ever fully tired her out physically, but she is engaged and tired mentally every day and is a wonderful house dog and companion.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

lhczth said:


> And as a few of us pointed out, mental exercise, not mindless exercise, though that is needed too. GSD need to use their brains and I and many others have found that using their brains tires them out far better than physical only exercise. When you do tons of physical exercise the dog gains conditioning and then just needs more exercise, but mental exercise gives them challenges and channels the desire to work. Gives them a job. It can be teaching tricks, find the shoe (hide a shoe and have them find it), find one of the kids that hides, find your toy (hmmmm, I do recommend a lot of scenting games), obedience before being allowed to chase the ball, etc.


Most of the time, mine and my dog's idea of "play" is training and play. I hardly ever just mindlessly throw toys or whatever. We practice obedience with toy as reward and quick play breaks in between. SAR the toys I hid in the backyard. Run a track and he gets his ball on a rope when he gets the final article and we play all the way back to the truck. My dogs act like training is play. They both literally jump for joy when I put the other one away and they know what we are going to go do. I enjoy it an get into it and therefore sometimes do it longer than even necessary but teaching something new, building on something, proofing something, ect ect ect seems VERY satisfying to them. a session of that and they look very satisfied and happy and content from then on that day

I usually throw in a couple of mindless days in a row if we have just traveled to a trial or traveled to a big or intense class or training session. They seem to want and enjoy goofing off with no expectations then.

I also mix it up like if we have been doing OB for a few days straight I will do nosework with her and tracking with him, and man he hits the track like he is on fire.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

My current pup is a 16 month old Czech male. To say he's bright is truly an understatement! Not only is he very smart and quick to learn he is very much an athlete. We train at least 6 days a week and in that training I incorporate exercise. He settles quite well in the house but he does have an abundance of energy so we are always doing something. The thing is that he is very well fed (Orijen) and the more physical exercise he gets the more he wants. He still has a lot of pup in him and he is very curious about everything new. The one thing that I noticed very early with him is he is afraid of nothing. He can be taxing at times but it's all part of the package. I wish I had him when I was working patrol. He's got patrol K9 talent in spades. As you can see I can't say enough good things about him. The only down side is I wish I was 20 years younger...


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

An exercised dog is a happy dog, this applies to ALL dogs, working dogs just need more stimulation than a pet quality dog.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Same answer as most people here - Gryffon is a joy go live with, so easy and calm. Yet has drive and willingness to work to spare. I work full time, our winters limit outdoor activities, so whether a full weekend at a personal protection seminar, a hike in the woods, or just chilling by the woodstove - it is all good, he takes it in stride.

One thing I want to point out is that it is important to get a dog from a breeder that breeds for balance - a dog with an off switch. A breeder whose philosophy is that even the best working dogs need to be able to live in the house as house dogs, and be part of family life. I've seen many dogs, even though they had good temperaments, just be so wound up all the time, they get distructive, spin and scream in frustration, are banished to live outdoors in kennels because they can't settle in the house. These dogs were all from the same breeder who is very successful at world level IPO/Schutzhund competitions, and his dogs are in demand with the local police departments, but not for me, thank you very much!

Part of doing research when getting a dog from a breeder, is to get references and check them out. Ask what the dogs are like to live with on a daily basis.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I mentioned making my dogs work for their meals and things like that. This is a glimps of the useless stuff I do with my dogs for their meals. This is Kimber, if you look you'll see her food bowl on the ground. I believe this stuff does help with impulse control as well as secondary OB for those who do bite work. 

https://youtu.be/5-R_2a9f-PU


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I should have added, I don't wait until they are adults to do this. My 13 week old puppies have already started this. Not to this level of course, all age appropriate.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Deja is a WL and she perfectly matches her drive to mine. Currently I am limited in my exercise due to back issues and she is the example of flexibility. She does get some exercise by fetching on the property that I make as diverse as possible. I am so surprised at her adjustment as she is high drive and in heat! But sits sweetly at my feet with adoring eyes and flat ears. Then hubby comes home and she jumps tracks.
I think this is what a true WL should be. Not an idiotic dog without an off switch. By assuming that they need constant work and training and you offer this, you are actually creating a dog that can not relax.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Right now I have 2 gsd's and 2 mini aussies..Masi is 3/4 czech-1/4 East..she will be 9 next month..She can still go all day if I ask her or slug it on the couch, tho she does require some form of exercise daily..She has a good 'off' switch as she matured and knows when it's time to settle down..Ozzie is only 5mths 3/4 ddr - 1/4 czech and is definitely much different than Masi, he has alot of energy and will go all day, but he has had a much better 'off' switch at this age than Masi did..

We have a routine, and they are pretty well adapted to it..I've always had working lines and really haven't had an issue with them being off the wall 24/7. Do I recommend them for everyone? No, I'm pretty active anyhow, and feel if one thinks they can get any type of dog and exercise it for 1/2 hour a day then they probably shouldn't get one..Or atleast not a gsd


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

So I've been reading y'alls comments and it sounds like I might not much of a problem with these type of dogs. Of course I'm not looking for a pure working dog let's leave those to the ones that need them (farms, the police, military, and service dog agencies). I don't imagine that it'll be easy especially with the first 2 years, but it doesn't sound like something thst will overwhelm me quickly.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

My pup is mostly Czech, some DDR, West German, and Belgian. We go to IPO training at least once a week, most weeks twice, and most days we do a little obedience training on our own. She has crazy ball drive so some days we will play fetch 2-3 times in short sessions. On top of that we track at least 3 times a week. I'm able to do this much because we live on a large farm and have tons of space. 
I take her just about everywhere with me, even took her 2400+ miles on a 3 week hunting trip to Colorado. When I can't take her to work she gets free roam of the house and backyard all day, really dosent mess with anything. 
I don't have to do all this, I just enjoy being active and it makes her happy and entertained. She has a good off switch and I feel like she could adapt to whatever lifestyle I had.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The answer to that question depends more on you than it does on the dog although genetics and temperament do play a role in how much trouble you'll have getting a dog to do whatever standard of behavior you set. Crank is a high drive malinois. He is fire in the work nobody would deny he is a strong dog. I've been training in California lately. I get an economy sized car as my rental to save money since it is now a trip I take every 5 weeks now for a week or more and everything there is an hour away field wise and I can't fit a crate in there so when I'm on the field watching other people train Crank is loose in the rental car next to the field chilling out. He will sometimes watch through the window or just chill in the back seat and relax. He doesn't bark at people walking by or lose his mind when he hears the guns and whips and clatter sticks. It isn't his turn he has been trained to relax when he sees me working other dogs and wait his turn. It is a good thing to do with competing dogs because if you go to a big trial you may be dog number 10-15 in line to go and if your dog goes nuts in the car or crate in car when people walk by with dogs or when it hears the gun or clatter stick or a whip because it knows dogs are training and it is doing that for hours when it is your time to go your dog will be a tired mess. I train for it where many others don't. It doesn't detract from when he is actually working, the context is fully understood.

People want to do obedience before bitework all the time like its some kind of religion. I love the looks I get when I skip OB completely and just let the dog stroll out into the field 10 feet ahead of me and go directly into bitework. 

I could put him on the field and chill next to him and we can both watch decoys work other dogs in bitework and he will relax and watch with interest but he won't whine or cry or try to go running over there because he was trained to understand it isn't his turn and he needs to wait and relax. That was training. Similarly he is easy in the house. That was training.

Training is not just sits downs stands heeling and tricks. Training is molding how a dog is to respond in a situation emotionally and arousal level wise. If you are the kind of person who thinks a good dog is a tired dog you are probably missing a large part of how to modify behavior. Conditioning desired emotional states from situation to situation is where it is at. People don't train it because most people don't know how. Training directors and decoys train for sport and not often enough high level pet OB so they have a huge gap in knowledge about a lot of things. The same crowd that is afraid to correct a working puppy for jumping on people because they're afraid they won't jump up to bite a helper or decoy later because of it. The same crowd that is afraid to correct a puppy for biting at hands and feet of the owner because they are afraid it will ruin the dog's ability to bite in the work. The same crowd afraid to make a dog chill out when it isn't time to do bitework because they are afraid to ruin the dogs drive in the bitework when it is his turn. It's a big general lack of understanding about dogs in general. I've seen people with national titles in bite sports like Ring or IPO who can't get their dogs to shut up in the house. It annoys them they just legitimately don't know how to fix it because nobody taught them. It is mind blowing sometimes.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

gsdsar said:


> I have had working GSD of all lines. Some are a bit tougher than others. But I have never had one that didn't learn early on how to settle in the house.
> 
> I am by no means a super active busy person. None of my dogs have ever gotten 2-3 hours of excersise every day. All of my dogs get interaction daily, their brains challenged daily(even if it's just body awareness and long downs) daily. Except my old girl, she does whatever the heck she wants.
> 
> ...


I would love to hear some methods you use to make sure they learn to settle in the house. As well as some mental stimulation games.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Baillif said:


> The answer to that question depends more on you than it does on the dog although genetics and temperament do play a role in how much trouble you'll have getting a dog to do whatever standard of behavior you set. Crank is a high drive malinois. He is fire in the work nobody would deny he is a strong dog. I've been training in California lately. I get an economy sized car as my rental to save money since it is now a trip I take every 5 weeks now for a week or more and everything there is an hour away field wise and I can't fit a crate in there so when I'm on the field watching other people train Crank is loose in the rental car next to the field chilling out. He will sometimes watch through the window or just chill in the back seat and relax. He doesn't bark at people walking by or lose his mind when he hears the guns and whips and clatter sticks. It isn't his turn he has been trained to relax when he sees me working other dogs and wait his turn. It is a good thing to do with competing dogs because if you go to a big trial you may be dog number 10-15 in line to go and if your dog goes nuts in the car or crate in car when people walk by with dogs or when it hears the gun or clatter stick or a whip because it knows dogs are training and it is doing that for hours when it is your time to go your dog will be a tired mess. I train for it where many others don't. It doesn't detract from when he is actually working, the context is fully understood.
> 
> People want to do obedience before bitework all the time like its some kind of religion. I love the looks I get when I skip OB completely and just let the dog stroll out into the field 10 feet ahead of me and go directly into bitework.
> 
> ...


I usually just ration out their food and use it to mark a desired behavior in the house or somewhere else, not really commanding them but waiting until they do it, I guess it's freeshaping? How else would you mold behavior? But I have had trouble with dog aggression and I think it was because I over-socialized (letting them meet every dog).


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> Deja is a WL and she perfectly matches her drive to mine. Currently I am limited in my exercise due to back issues and she is the example of flexibility. She does get some exercise by fetching on the property that I make as diverse as possible. I am so surprised at her adjustment as she is high drive and in heat! But sits sweetly at my feet with adoring eyes and flat ears. Then hubby comes home and she jumps tracks.
> I think this is what a true WL should be. Not an idiotic dog without an off switch. By assuming that they need constant work and training and you offer this, you are actually creating a dog that can not relax.


Beautifully said!

There are so many assumptions flying around about WLs from people who have never lived with one. You brought out some truly excellent points. Adaptability. Dogs, in general are meant to be adaptable creatures. They learn to fit themselves into our world. We don't rearrange our whole world into some sort of canine never never land.

And the value of the 'off switch' cannot be overstated. It is not learned behavior. It's factory installed via DNA. It's what makes a good WL GSD a joy to live with. I've had that point really driven home for me by having a WL with a faulty off switch. Not Raff of course, but my husband's dog. He's coming up on three years old and can't handle being loose in the house. Raff, at 16 weeks can pick up a toy and settle. He's not at all destructive in the house. To get an idea of how much drive he has, I refer you to the thread titled 'Raff's Updated Training Pics'.

High drive does NOT equal wild dog! A properly bred WL will have a functioning off switch and a talent for obedience. Our off switch free male does not do well in obedience, not surprisingly. He has very poor focus.

All of this should shed some light on why it's important for breeders to get working titles on their breeding dogs.


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

Life with a working dog looks like this:


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

And sometimes this:


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I live in a high rise two bedroom in the middle of the city... My high drive female sleeps on my bed, goes to my office job with me frequently, hangs out with us in the evenings, hikes on weekends and enjoys working for me when asked. She settles better than the cats do!

Boundaries, respect and training. Both my dogs respect doorways and babygates (kitty litter and food behind these things), get excited for outdoor times such as walks and playtime but the also know the rules of no playing in the house, pick a bed and a toy and settle.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Julian G said:


> I usually just ration out their food and use it to mark a desired behavior in the house or somewhere else, not really commanding them but waiting until they do it, I guess it's freeshaping? How else would you mold behavior? But I have had trouble with dog aggression and I think it was because I over-socialized (letting them meet every dog).


Tons of ways to do it. Among them.

Physical corrections for transitions into undesired mental states or energy levels (don't try this one without proper coaching)

Conditioned calmness exercises like sitting on the dog or long downs etc.

If doing behaviors that require mental effort on the part of the dog like a long down heeling or anything with duration whatever the dog is doing or state they are in when you release them from the behavior even if you give no food or toy reward is rewarding in and of itself.

It's easy to condition a dog that hates being handled to learn to melt in your hands by putting pressure of some sort on the dog whenever it struggles to get free and you never let them go unless they are completely relaxed. At first the relaxation for the dog is an escape tactic but then over a fairly short period of time it just becomes the thing to do while in that situation.

Correcting expressions of certain emotions in dogs can eliminate the emotions over time. Correcting whining, pacing, even panting if done right (I will not say how coaching for that kind of stuff you're gonna have to cough up cash and come here in person) can eliminate the emotional states that give rise to the behavior. Conversely the emotional states can be created through operant conditioning and classical conditioning. 

You can make em little brainwashed Manchurian candidates. CIA probably has me on a list somewhere by now.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Baillif said:


> Tons of ways to do it. Among them.
> 
> Physical corrections for transitions into undesired mental states or energy levels (don't try this one without proper coaching)
> 
> ...


The dog aggression is what really bugs me to ****.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I live in a high rise two bedroom in the middle of the city... My high drive female sleeps on my bed, goes to my office job with me frequently, hangs out with us in the evenings, hikes on weekends and enjoys working for me when asked. She settles better than the cats do!
> 
> Boundaries, respect and training. Both my dogs respect doorways and babygates (kitty litter and food behind these things), get excited for outdoor times such as walks and playtime but the also know the rules of no playing in the house, pick a bed and a toy and settle.


Yes, baby gates. I am in awe that Deja respects them. She does test if they are locked and if not, she'll open it, only to follow me with a guilty face. If locked, she waits behind a three ft high baby gate.:wub::wub:


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

You ask two different questions.
A working dog works.
Working line refers to type/lineage.

Either way a dog is a dog. They give us what we give them. And so much more.


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