# Schutzhund puppy nerves?



## Rossbar (Feb 2, 2011)

Sorry if this question has already been asked, I couldn't find it..

This might be a stupid question, but I need to know if others have had the same experiences and gone on to be sucessful in Schuzthund.

I have a 15 week old female that I purchased from a breeder that specifically breeds working schutzund pups. I've had the puppy home for about one month so far and she seems to show amazing qualities at this point, she has a great bite, tons of prey drive, and very easy to train. However, she gets nervous around loud noises, I will say it has gotten better over the weeks as I walk her around new home construction sites in my neighborhood. When I first took her around these loud noises she would try to run the other direction, now, a few weeks later I can take her to the same place and do OB work with no problem 10 feet from the power tools and hammers. Yesterday I came across some skateboarders making loud noises and she completely freaked and tried to run.. Keep in mind, when we're in the house nothing phases her, I can bang pots and pans, vacuum around her, no problems, only noises outside the house.

So here is my question: Am I over reacting, is this just a simple matter of getting her used to all the new sites and sounds as a puppy? or would you expect her to have more nerve at this point around the outside noises?


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

What have you been doing for socialization with you pup? How have you tried to introduce the pup slowly to outside loud noises?


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

How are YOU reacting when she reacts?

I would continue to expose her to these things, keeping everything fun and exciting. Tones of treats and praise and allow her to explore.

If she reacts, totally ignore the behaviour then if she goes to explore the sounds praise like it's going out of style!

I would make sure to expose her to different surfaces as well as noise. Take some pots outside and make the noise, fill a kiddie pool with pastic bottles for her to walk through (on her own), get some bells and put them outside for her to play with, beep a horn a few times while playing with her, etc..


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I wouldn't be concerned - she is a baby and everything is completely new to her. The fact that after a few exposures to loud, scary things she does not react anymore is a good sign. Just keep doint what you are doing, I'm sure she'll be fine!


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## Rossbar (Feb 2, 2011)

She goes on about 5-7 walks a day through the neighborhood and some ball chasing at the park across the street, we also do small agility work on the park benchs and jungle gyms to build confidence, she gets plenty of exercise and outdoor play time. Also, I carry treats on every walk to praise all the good stuff and to distract her from the sounds, when does does get freightened I keep walking as normal and I double back to the cause of the sound to show her I'm not afraid of it.

Thanks for all the posts, I think she'll be fine, I just needed to hear it from other owners. We just took another walk to the construction zone a few minutes ago and it was extra loud today, and she was more concerned with attacking the flappy caution tape than with the noise. I'm just over reacting..


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Yup, sounds like you are doing a great job.

Keep with it and I am sure you and her will be great.

HAHAHA... I can imagine the "attacking of the caution tape"...lol. Stark did that with a sand bag one time - brought it at least 10 feet from where he found it...lol.

Okay, soooo.. I know what this thread needs - PHOTO's!!!


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

Just don't use the phrase "it okay" in a soothing voice when they hear a bad noise it only reinforces the fear. I think you are doing a great job in the socialization department and *just be patient after all she is only a puppy still*.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

It really should be ok. *Generally* speaking I have usually found females to be a little more enviornmentally aware than the males. 

The question becomes more what does she do when she is engaged. I wouldn't worry necessarily over a pup startling out and about...but then the drive has to overcome the fear. A dog with good focus that is not overly concerned will stick with what they are occupied with rather than the distraction. I would worry if you are playing and tugging and when she hears the noise she comes out of drive and disengages.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

You can condition this away. People do it all the time. This IS a problem, but you can overcome it for sport work. 

But always be aware that you HAD to. This puppy does not have 110% solid nerves. Maybe 95% - but not 100, not 110! I have seen pups totally ignore gunshots, power tools, etc at 8, 9 10 weeks - very solid pups. 

You can condition the dog to pass the gunfire tests on a schutzhund field and pass....but I personally would not consider the dog to be a breeding prospect with inherent noise sensitivity - and do not be surprised if the dog does revert occasionally - esp under stressful environments. In every issue of trial results, you will see a notation that a dog is 'gunshy' - and I bet they do fine at club training - have seen too many dogs who have been manipulated through this and the other thing is being touched by a stranger for tatoo/chip inspection - the dogs often get through and pass - but it is because there was a concerted effort to condition the dog to the environment to which it was adversely reacting

Just my take on it from my experience - sorry, 

Lee


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## Rossbar (Feb 2, 2011)

Inside the house she is very aggressive with the chew toys, bite rags, tugs, and especially my hands. When she locks on to the tug she will regrip and not let go for anything, I'm amazed at how far off the ground she can jump with dead on accuracy and grab on to the tug with a full grip. When I'm outside I can get the same action out of her as long as there's no sudden loud noises or people walking by, then she has to stop and investigate, she'll stand and watch a person walk by until they're out of site, then back to the action. I'll just have to keep working with her and hopefully she'll grow out of it, she really seems to be a top quality schutzhund prospect pup inside the house. I'm hoping someone else can share a similar experience and tell me they grew out of it.

I really do appreciate all the feedback and advice.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Rossbar said:


> Inside the house she is very aggressive with the chew toys, bite rags, tugs, and especially my hands. When she locks on to the tug she will regrip and not let go for anything, I'm amazed at how far off the ground she can jump with dead on accuracy and grab on to the tug with a full grip. When I'm outside I can get the same action out of her as long as there's no sudden loud noises or people walking by, then she has to stop and investigate, she'll stand and watch a person walk by until they're out of site, then back to the action. I'll just have to keep working with her and hopefully she'll grow out of it, she really seems to be a top quality schutzhund prospect pup inside the house. I'm hoping someone else can share a similar experience and tell me they grew out of it.
> 
> I really do appreciate all the feedback and advice.


She sounds like a nice enough pup....this is basically a drivy pup, and drivy pups can overcome their issues with stimulation...but I'm sorry - I am NOT trying to be mean....if she has sound sensitivity/nerve issues, you can probably suceed at a club level where she is conditioned to the gun...but it will be 'iffy'....she is not in drive enough so far to work through the distraction, and you describe fear/lack of confidence - I have raised a few "top prospects" and there is NO issue with noise with a pup who is a "top" prospect...I am not saying you can't do schutzhund, you can - noise sensitivity CAN be conditioned for...adn I am sure she is a nice pup.

Lee


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I do agree with Lee and I value her opinion - I would NOT consider this a puppy for a breeding prospect but I would consider her a dog to train in SchH.

My male has weak nerves (not terrible, but he is reactive in certain situations) and is not a drivey dog but he is doing well with his training.

He has taught me so much about the breed, the sport, training and what an "ideal" dog should posses.

I would definitely continue to work your puppy and continue to socialize it like you are. She will make an excellent partner for you and companion.


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## Rossbar (Feb 2, 2011)

Quick update: Over the cousre of the last two days we've taken several walks to the construction sites without incident, she doesn't even pay attention to the noise at all, she takes treats, follows basic OB commands, I consider this problem resolved..

The other problem was with people on skateboards. After spend some time on this I've come to realize its not the noise they make, its the motion.. I dug an old skateboard out of the garage and rode it around her, making all the same noises. She freaks as it goes by, not by the noise, now she also tries to attack and bite the wheels when I ride it.

After reading all your posts the other day we did a bunch of tests, I had my wife making noise with pots and pans while we play tug, this had no effect, she kept playing until I let her win, this was a lot of noise too, it hurt my ears. The only situation I still have is that she'll disengage the tug outside when a stranger walks by, she doesn't seem afraid of the people and try to back away, she just looks like shes on guard and very alert.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Great post-sounds like you are figuring your dog out-Good luck with training!


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

I maybe be misreading what you are saying about the pup so can i ask the lineage of her? I am thinking she have a more civil streak in her and so she is more cognizant of those things that move fats and get her into that mode. I have this with my pup since I got him at 4 months it only took one stranger almost running up to pet him to get him into full bark mode. Even now at 1year while I have conditioned him when people move to fast around him he get in a suspicious mode.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Rossbar said:


> Quick update: Over the cousre of the last two days we've taken several walks to the construction sites without incident, she doesn't even pay attention to the noise at all, she takes treats, follows basic OB commands, I consider this problem resolved..
> 
> The other problem was with people on skateboards. After spend some time on this I've come to realize its not the noise they make, its the motion.. I dug an old skateboard out of the garage and rode it around her, making all the same noises. She freaks as it goes by, not by the noise, now she also tries to attack and bite the wheels when I ride it.
> 
> After reading all your posts the other day we did a bunch of tests, I had my wife making noise with pots and pans while we play tug, this had no effect, she kept playing until I let her win, this was a lot of noise too, it hurt my ears. The only situation I still have is that she'll disengage the tug outside when a stranger walks by, she doesn't seem afraid of the people and try to back away, she just looks like shes on guard and very alert.



Testing the dog IN YOUR HOUSE means nothing - it is not reliable as a test!!! She is comfortable there - the issue seems to be confidence in strange surroundings - if she is reactive in a NEW situation with NEW stimulus, that shows a confidence/nerve issue. That she will come around and is responding to conditioning is a good thing, meaning the nerves are not excessively bad, just not totally good - instead of black vs white - bad vs good....a sliding scale, a greytone not too far off white! 

Lee


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## Rossbar (Feb 2, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> Testing the dog IN YOUR HOUSE means nothing - it is not reliable as a test!!! She is comfortable there - the issue seems to be confidence in strange surroundings - if she is reactive in a NEW situation with NEW stimulus, that shows a confidence/nerve issue. That she will come around and is responding to conditioning is a good thing, meaning the nerves are not excessively bad, just not totally good - instead of black vs white - bad vs good....a sliding scale, a greytone not too far off white!
> 
> Lee


Honsetly I think its just a matter of socializing to the sites and sounds of new surroundings, or she's going through a phase and growing out it really quick. You be the judge, I took this video at lunch today, we're standing next to a house under construction and there's a ton of noise, we're about twenty feet from a guy rapid firing a very LOUD nail gun, much louder than a schutzhund judge firing a gun once or twice. See the link below:


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

sigh - fine - you have already said you have been taking her to a construction site - if this is the 3rd or 4th time - it is showing the conditioning is working...Dogs with confidence and 110% solid stable nerves do not ***need*** socializing to behave without fear or worry. They just are not concerned with new things or noises.

I took a 12 week old pup to a construction site - the pup was climbing into excavators with no hesitation - the first time he saw one...he paid no attention to the bustle and the noise, no barking, no concerns. He made 6x SchH3 with a novice, and did show at a National HOT and did respectably well.


People want reassurance, not answers or honest opinions quite often....they want validation that they are right and I am sorry I cannot give you that...so good luck! I am sure you will do fine and get the dog titled since you obviously want to and will put the work and time in to get there.
Lee


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## Rossbar (Feb 2, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> sigh - fine - you have already said you have been taking her to a construction site - if this is the 3rd or 4th time - it is showing the conditioning is working...Dogs with confidence and 110% solid stable nerves do not ***need*** socializing to behave without fear or worry. They just are not concerned with new things or noises.
> 
> I took a 12 week old pup to a construction site - the pup was climbing into excavators with no hesitation - the first time he saw one...he paid no attention to the bustle and the noise, no barking, no concerns. He made 6x SchH3 with a novice, and did show at a National HOT and did respectably well.
> 
> ...


Lee - I really do value your opinion, and I'm not saying I'm right or I know everything. the main reason for this post was to get feedback and I really appreciate it. If she has a couple hang ups at 15 weeks old, and it takes a couple times of seeing or hearing things then I'm fine with that, we'll just work through it. Thank you again for taking the time to respond.


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## mayapj (Feb 24, 2011)

I'm new to this forum and Schutzhund, and I have a 9 month old pup. We've been going to a club the last two months, but I am still unsure about how to proceed. This is what I have surmised so far, but can't really get a straight answer. My pup doesn't have a lot of toy drive compared to the dogs I see there. She get excited about a the toy at home, and I back-tied her to build her drive per their instructions, but she's not "crazy." She strikes, bites, and will carry the rag off now, but if there is a distraction somewhere on the way to the car, she'll drop it, or if the game goes on too long she gets bored. I've gotten the impression that without more drive a Sch1 is not even slightly possible. Is that right? I have the opposite problem of the poster. She'll hang out while we shoot handguns and it doesn't bother her a bit, but the rag drive...not so high. If someone walk up on me she will go into full bark defense mode, but that's not the same nerve required for the sport right? I'm confused.

I am working her in tracking and the obedience, but at what point do you decide your dog isn't cut out for this sport? I'm fine with her either way, just wish I weren't so confused about it.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

Rossbar said:


> *Honsetly I think its just a matter of socializing to the sites and sounds of new surroundings,*


I highlighted this because strong nerved dogs shouldn't need "socializing" to anything. A good, strong puppy should have no reaction and certainly no fear reaction to strange noises.

I don't like any puppy that I have let it get used to a sound to not be afraid. I want a dog that doesn't care about strange sounds that he's never heard before.

Just a thought.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Myapi, This is where the value of knowledge of bloodlines comes in. There are some lines of the breed that have similar behavoirs as your dog and makes very nice Sch or sport dogs as they mature. Especially dogs with DDR blood strong in the pedigree. Don't be discouraged at this point.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Agree with Cliff. Sometimes it also requires a helper and club that know how to work that bloodline and type of dog.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I think the best training advice I ever got (not that I took it) was train what you've got-but I am hoping that Cliff is right-Maybe you can keep us updated with how your dog is doing


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

Rossbar,
if you got this puppy from a sch breeder have you talked to them as to why the pup has this sensitivity to loud noise. I noticed it is a reputable kennel and I am surprised they sent out a pup who has such a problem with loud noise.


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

mayapj,
I just read your blog a little and while the monks of new skete have a great book it is not as well intentioned for a young sch puppy prospect so you may have quashed some of your pups toy drive. So I would encourage you to watch the video in another older thread about drive building, just remember to have patience and one day if she is right when in her one or 2yo age bracket she will turn on and you will know.


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## mayapj (Feb 24, 2011)

Thank you for all the replies already! About the New Skete book, I think that is really true and I'm seeing it goes for a lot methods out there that are directed to the average pet owner. The average pet owner isn't looking at dog sports and just want a well behaved dog and isn't looking to handle more than that. I was actually working on a post about how I think I screwed up and squashed drive in Lizzie by following these methods. 

She doesn't have a titled bloodline, but came from a lady who's father was Dallas K-9 officer and trained those dogs. She's has just kept up with that tradition. Nothing fancy, just was a local and verifiable source. My dog also still seems very "puppy" when I compare her to a couple of the younger dogs at the club. More immature in her behaviors and her look.

For now I'll go with the advice to "train what you've got" and keep working with her. I'm not sure the club is used to this type of dog, but I'll keep at it and check back in periodically with her progress.

Thanks so much again.


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## mayapj (Feb 24, 2011)

Oh...I don't know if it is any indication of working capacity, but I have been tracking with her daily and she takes to that well. I'm still at 100% food, but I just started tracking with her a month ago and she up to 200 paces and keeps her head down. Thanks again for all the help.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

szariksdad said:


> Rossbar,
> if you got this puppy from a sch breeder have you talked to them as to why the pup has this sensitivity to loud noise. I noticed it is a reputable kennel and I am surprised they sent out a pup who has such a problem with loud noise.



hmmm - do some reading - not surprised in the least....


Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

mayapj - sounds like a stable solid pup....lots of dogs get Sch1 without being over the top nutcases in drive!!! Some dogs train better with food than toys - my DDR dog had high prey - for critters and car tires but would only play with a toy minimally - she went at least 6x Sch3 with 2 High in Trials...the hardest thing to train was the dumbbell - so she was a solid 83-85 in obedience - but 90s in protection and lets not talk about tracking - LOL good scores when I trained....

No dog is perfect - we have here a dog with very high drive, but some noise issues - and one with very solid nerves and less prey - both dogs are trainable - both dogs titleable - just different challenges for the handlers!

Yes - there is alot to learn and every dog has some weaknesses somewhere - there are 3 phases to the test, and some dogs are much stronger in one than another!!! A pup like these can teach you more than a ready made dog - don't either of you give up...

Lee


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## Joker (Sep 15, 2006)

Get with a club and stay away from dog board professors There's no way anyone can make a accurate assessment on your pup with your description. Maybe your the jumpy nervous one and the pups reacting to your reactions.
Maybe its the spooky stage many pups go through.
Maybe its a crapper.
Lotso maybes


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

Joker said:


> Get with a club and stay away from dog board professors There's no way anyone can make a accurate assessment on your pup with your description. Maybe your the jumpy nervous one and the pups reacting to your reactions.
> Maybe its the spooky stage many pups go through.
> Maybe its a crapper.
> Lotso maybes


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

You can screw a dog up doing some of the advice you have been given here. That dosen't mean that the advise is bad; it just might not be the right advice for you and your dog. Get help from someone that is* successfully *doing with their dogs what you want to do with yours./


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