# Is Schutzhund right for me?



## amber fletcher05 (Mar 31, 2009)

Eventually i would like my GSD to have some training in protection. My reason is because i was once a victim of crime. I never ever want anything like that to happen again especially since it took place in my own home. Would Schuntzhund make Bella a better "guard" dog? Or is there some other basic "protection" work she can learn. I basically want her to sound and look intimidating on command, or know how to protect me from someone who might want to harm me. Chances of it happening again are probably slim but i want to feel safe again in my home.


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## dreamofwrx (Sep 20, 2008)

It could, but it might not either. If you want a dog that you know will guard you from an intruder or "bad guy" you want to get into personal protection, not schutzhund. (I am assuming you want her to bite on command if someone comes at you or breaks in) Schutzhund is more sport oriented. 

Edit: That being said the best way to make sure you are not a victim in your own home is buy youself a 12 guage and keep it handy. Someone with a weapon will probably kill your dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would look into protection training vs schutzhund if that is what you are looking for. Though as many people have stated throughout many threads, it is our job to protect our dogs not the other way around. Get a gun and learn how to shoot if you want protection. GSD's are protective and intimidating to people, so are a deterrant. I know my dogs would probably scare someone that could be scared with their barking and growling-but if some psycho came in my home, I wouldn't want my dogs hurt, and an intruder would be shot before my dogs could harm them or be harmed if it came down to that.


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## dreamofwrx (Sep 20, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlI would look into protection training vs schutzhund if that is what you are looking for. Though as many people have stated throughout many threads, it is our job to protect our dogs not the other way around. Get a gun and learn how to shoot if you want protection. GSD's are protective and intimidating to people, so are a deterrant. I know my dogs would probably scare someone that could be scared with their barking and growling-but if some psycho came in my home, I wouldn't want my dogs hurt, and an intruder would be shot before my dogs could harm them or be harmed if it came down to that.



^^^^^^
Truth, dogs are a deterrent and an alarm system, if someone isnt scared off by the sight of your dog, you are in for a fight regardless.


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## cledford (Apr 5, 2005)

I agree with other posts - it is a humans personal responsibility to protect their self. Interestingly enough there are a number of landmark Supreme Court decisions that back up this already common sense (in my opinion) tenet of life. If your life isn't worthy of protecting by you, why should anyone/anything risk theirs on your behalf? OK, so as a woman, the only reliable means of protection is owning a firearm and obtaining routine training in its use. It is that simple - if you want to hang a picture you use a hammer, you want to protect yourself, especially from physically stronger persons you need the proper tool to do that. People can argue over the politics of it all day long and at the end, the truth will still be there. If it wasn't the truth cops wouldn't carry.

So, onto the specific answer to your question. No. I believe Schutzhund is too demanding, expensive and time consuming to get involved with if it is not your *primary* intent. I could go further into how most Schutzhund dogs wouldn't know what to do in a real world situation, off the trial field, with no sleeve in sight - but that is too much. Bottom line is that Schutzhund will not provide you a protection dog. Frankly, due to the intensity require to train, maintain and insure a *true* protection dog (not to mention the fact that often they aren't the kind of dog you can walk in the park or have hang out with your friends...) you probably really don't want a protection dog. 

What I would suggest is a working with a personal protection dog trainer, but ONLY teaching your dog to react to threats you alert him to with strong barking. Almost ANY dog from a protection breed can be taught to do this, even if they'd never bite a person in a million years. It is easy to teach, doesn't matter if the dog is neutered, pet trained, low drive, or a nerve bag, it is easy to do. The you have a deterrent. Not real protection – but better than nothing. Most people, including all but the most hardened bad guys will not be able to tell a wimpy dog who’s been taught to alert and bark convincingly from the "real deal" protection dog, that will cost you many thousands more to buy, train and insure - since it is very likely that it will bite someone at some point. I'd like to say I'm not bashing true PP dogs, they are just not something most people can handle.

I've done a bunch of this training in the last year and worked with a couple of women. They feel much more empowered knowing that they've got a dog that will scare the daylights out of someone, but at the same time isn't going to land them in a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

A hint for selecting a PP trainer. If you are not hardcore into learning dog handling and have the nature to do whatever it takes to keep your hard, dominate, independent, strong working dog in line, than they SHOULD BE SUGGESTING TO YOU EXACTLY WHAT I AM. If they don't they are either hacks, or simply interested in taking your money.

I still vote for the firearm + professional training as the way to truly *protect* yourself. For some peace of mind and a deterrent from less serious threats to life and well being - get a nice dog you like, get professional help to teach it to bark at bad guys to scare em off. You'll be much happier in the end.

-Calvin


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

All good advice. The only way a SchH dog will "protect" for certain is if the dog has the proper temperament and if it has been cross trained to real world situations. The protection part comes from the real protection training and the temperament, not the SchH training. Calvin is very right when referring to the time and commitment of resources necessary to train in SchH. 

Even with a dog that is willing and able to engage and protect, the dog is meant to buy you time - that's all. Time to run, or in my case time to get a firearm. You will absolutely need a gun to deal with someone skilled/stupid/drugged out of their mind enough to enter your home even though you have a GSD warning them not to.


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## alaman (May 3, 2006)

Well police have trained GSDs and they use them to stop crack heads, robbers, etc. all the time. My two personal protection trained dogs will destroy anyone breaking into my home as they are trained to do. They stay close and will never be sent at a distance to confront someone who is a danger to me or my wife. 

I will have a gun for back-up but it will probably not be used. The only way someone gets past them is if they come in prepared to take on my dogs in the beginning.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Quote:Well police have trained GSDs and they use them to stop crack heads, robbers, etc. all the time.


No....most of the time they're used as deterrents. 

The deployment rate, to the best of my knowledge, is (and should be) low. And even when the dogs are sent, the handlers are waiting for a moment when the perp is occupied with something else so they aren't sending their dogs head on into danger. They don't want their dogs shot, stabbed, injured, or killed any more than we do.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: alamanWell police have trained GSDs and they use them to stop crack heads, robbers, etc. all the time. My two personal protection trained dogs will destroy anyone breaking into my home as they are trained to do. They stay close and will never be sent at a distance to confront someone who is a danger to me or my wife.
> 
> I will have a gun for back-up but it will probably not be used. The only way someone gets past them is if they come in prepared to take on my dogs in the beginning.


K-9's are used to ASSIST human officers catch dangerous suspects. Dog and handler train as a TEAM, and to my knowledge dogs are not expected to fight suspects to a standstill alone. Sure, a dog will take down a bad guy running away, but that is quite different than a dog defending against an attacker to the end. I know that my male will engage an intruder without question as well, but I will absolutely be right behind him with a gun and if I have a clean shot I'm taking it - I don't want to risk injury to my dog seeing if he can "finish him off". 

The likelyhood that someone actually tries to enter any of our homes with GSD's in them is quite minute. They would have to be drugged out of their mind or ridiculously stupid - because I for one never plan on getting involved with and in turn pissing off the type of people that would be willing and prepared for that type of fight.


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## darga19 (Mar 4, 2009)

As some of you have already said, if someone is willing to break into your home with a big barking GSD at the window in front of them...they've got to be completely nuts in the first place. 

You better have the .45 ready to deal with them.


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## cledford (Apr 5, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: alamanWell police have trained GSDs and they use them to stop crack heads, robbers, etc. all the time. My two personal protection trained dogs will destroy anyone breaking into my home as they are trained to do. They stay close and will never be sent at a distance to confront someone who is a danger to me or my wife.
> 
> I will have a gun for back-up but it will probably not be used. The only way someone gets past them is if they come in prepared to take on my dogs in the beginning.


Dogs are not used to "stop" the individuals cited. Guns are used stop those individuals. Dogs are used as a "less lethal" means of controlling those individuals up and until they need stopped. Dogs also provide other utility functions such as evidence and subject/substance/evidence tracking/locating services.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Their other value is as a deterrant factor. For some reason even bad guys are more scared of the K9 than of the officer with the gun, so threatening them with the dog often means ending the situation without dog or gun needing to be deployed.

The same psychology applies to most evil doers. Typically criminals are cowards and go for the easy pickings. That means they're going to pass up the house with the GSD, whether it's protection trained or not. If they have enough of a personal vendetta against a particular person, they're going to find a way to get to that person whether the person has a dog or not. If determined to cause harm to that specific person, they will come up with a way to deal with a dog, even a protection trained one. A dog is still no match for a knife, gun, poison or any number of other means. And then the person is left totally defenseless unless, as others have stated, the person has taken it upon themselves to get the tools and training needed to be able to truly protect themselves.

For 99.9% of random crime, any big dog with a scary bark and reputation will serve as a deterrent. Protection training and all of the responsibility, time, energy, money and liability that goes into it isn't needed.

For the tiny amount of crime targeted at a specific individual, chances are the best personal protection dog in the world isn't going to be enough to stop them and the potential victim better have something more than just the dog.


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## GSDluver4lyfe (Nov 15, 2006)

I totally agree, if a person is determined to come thru a dog ACTING agressive, it really wont matter if your dog is trained to bite or not. You have something the "bad guy" REALLY wants and a dog will not stop him. A bullet is much more of a safe bet. That is YOUR territory that YOU need to defend, your dogs are just helping you do that. That said, I think any dog with a close bond to its "pack" will put on a good show if he felt his pack were being threatened but that is only my opinion. Heck my little pom can get quite nasty, and has actually scared the crap out of people, LOL.


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## amber fletcher05 (Mar 31, 2009)

Thank you everyone. I agree i think that if Bella just barks it will scare off most. .


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildTheir other value is as a deterrant factor. For some reason even bad guys are more scared of the K9 than of the officer with the gun, so threatening them with the dog often means ending the situation without dog or gun needing to be deployed.












That is because they(the bad guys) KNOW that if they run or fight back, the officer can NOT just start shooting, but they can and WILL send the dog to stop them and even the slowest dog can catch the fastest human. And WHEN the dog catches them, they WILL be bitten.
(The above is obviously NOT directed at you Chris. Just making "conversation".







)


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## laukaouda (Jun 26, 2002)

I purchased Phantom as my companion and deterrant. I do a lot of hiking/back packing by myself. Being miles away from a trail head I've met some men who didn't sit well with me. They didn't belong in the woods.

I wanted to give Phantom a job so I got into Schutzhund. While it is not a exclusively personal protection sport it does give the handler better control of the dog.

If a person approaches that I don't like, "Fuss" and my dog is at my side. Or a "Bark" command given when you don't want someone to approach has been quite helpful.

Also in Schutzhund we also desensitize our dogs to gun shots. If I fire my gun I don't want Phantom to run off and get lost.

A serial killer was recently caught target woman hikers with dogs. This is not the first instance in this country. It sucks but if your in the city or back woods there are threats of violence.

I carry (and practice a couple times of month) a hand gun. I love my Sig. If someone is not deterred by my big black German shepherd, my back the **** off demeanor, then a 40 mm properly placed will do the rest.

Good luck.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Xeph
> 
> 
> > Quote:Well police have trained GSDs and they use them to stop crack heads, robbers, etc. all the time.
> ...


this is very true, our PSA trainer is also a county K-9. he has had his recent dog for 5 years and has never had a live bite. most people dont want to put up a fight against a dog because they KNOW that the dog will get them and will bite..


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## ltsgsd (Jan 31, 2009)

I agree with many of the comments here. I have a GSD that will bite a person but I will only depend on him to deter until I can get my gun in my hand, then he will be called back to my side so I can finish the business at hand.


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