# Newbie Looking for Input on Breeders in Northeast



## NJGirl (Jan 21, 2014)

Although I've done a lot of reading on this forum, this is my first time posting. My husband and I live in central NJ and looking for the right GSD breeder for us. We both grew up with the breed and love them. Sadly, some of the dogs we owned as kids and early on together suffered from health problems, especially DM, so we are trying to do all the right research now to find a healthy dog with the right temperament. 

We are open to considering both working lines and show lines, but ultimately we are seeking a dog to be an active family companion. We don't plan to show, breed, or do Schutzhund and actually would like to avoid a dog with super drives as we have two cats and plan to have children. We ultimately want a healthy, sound Shepherd with a confident, relaxed temperament. We are open to any coat color. We would also like to try to keep the price of our dog to $2,000 since it will be a companion.

These are the breeders I've narrowed my list to so far. Some I've visited and others I haven't. Do any stand out in a good or bad way? Also, are there any others in our area that you would recommend? Thanks!!

-Eichenluft: German Shepherd Breeder PA - Eichenluft German Shepherd Dogs Home - German Shepherd Breeder VA - German Shepherd Breeder MD - German Shepherd Breeder OH - German Shepherd Breeder DC - German Shepherd Breeder NY - German Shepherd Breeder NJ (working lines with some show lines and show line x working line crosses)
-Von Wyndmoor: www.vonwyndmoor.com (working lines)
-Hollow Hills: http://hollowhillsgsd.com (German and American show lines)
Vom Ledgemere: German Shepherds, German Shepherd Breeder MA, German Shepherd Puppies MA, NH, CT, VT, NY, ME, NJ, German Shepherds Massachusetts - Home (German show lines) out of our area in MA, but I liked the fact that they DM test all dogs
Jagermeister Shepherds: German Shepherd Breeder in New Jersey. Puppies and trained German Shepherd Dogs for sale. (working lines)


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## nedved (Jan 29, 2014)

I don't think you should be considering working lines at all with what you've told us. Had you not posted your price limits I would have said to get an adult. Maybe try adopting from a rescue. Better still, you should probably consider a different breed. 

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but it makes no sense that you would be looking at both show and working lines and then say you don't want a dog with super drives. Which one is it? You should really think about what you want and more importantly why you want it. You should also consider more carefully your family plans as a puppy won't be the dog you want for a couple of years.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

She did not post anything that made me think they shouldn't get a German shepherd or a puppy-not all working lines are high drive


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

nedved said:


> I don't think you should be considering working lines at all with what you've told us. Had you not posted your price limits I would have said to get an adult. Maybe try adopting from a rescue. Better still, you should probably consider a different breed.
> 
> I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but it makes no sense that you would be looking at both show and working lines and then say you don't want a dog with super drives. Which one is it? You should really think about what you want and more importantly why you want it. You should also consider more carefully your family plans as a puppy won't be the dog you want for a couple of years.


The right puppy from working lines is perfectly fine for an active family. A good breeder that knows how to evaluate their litters and puppies won't put a dog with "super drives" in a pet home.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Sent pm.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

Lucy Dog said:


> The right puppy from working lines is perfectly fine for an active family. A good breeder that knows how to evaluate their litters and puppies won't put a dog with "super drives" in a pet home.


This is my opinion as well. Our breeder chose our pup for us and she really nailed it. So far he is perfect for us.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I wouldn't go to Eichenluft. Personal experience. Also out of your price range anyway.

I haven't heard anything but good things about the rest


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Vom Wyndmoor is good. Jim has been competing with his dogs for years. Very good guy and honest. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I am pretty happy with my eichenluft dog


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## HOBY (Aug 12, 2013)

*Breeder in Vermont*

I have been very pleased with Hoby. Easterngermanshepherds Vom Benza Haus.
Hoby was matched to me by the breeder and the match is right on.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Welcome to the forum and MOST important is to make sure you spent a few hours on ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html

That way when you talk to the better breeders you can be clear on your expectations and they will more seriously consider you for their pups cause they know you know about the breed!

Good luck!


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## nedved (Jan 29, 2014)

holland said:


> She did not post anything that made me think they shouldn't get a German shepherd or a puppy-not all working lines are high drive


High drive relative to what? Comparing drives within working lines is one thing but comparing drives between breeds is something else. A working line dog will have higher drives than a non-working breed. And obviously working lines can make good pets but they require more from an owner. She said they plan on starting a family. When? Are they going to wait a couple of years for the puppy to mature? 

When someone says they haven't decided between show and working lines that says they haven't come to a conclusive assessment of what they really want.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Between breeds? They're still one breed . GSDs ... different lines .. yeah. My primarily DDR working line pup is a medium drive dog with great temperament (not a great settler but hey he's still young). You can't paint them all with the same brush. Just like you can't paint all showlines the same.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

...and like working lines show lines do require exercise and training too


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I think the timing is perfect for them to get a puppy. Children in the future, when the puppy will be a dog and trained. You say you dont plan to show or do Schutzhund, but I think with any line of GSD, training is important. Even if it is only for the first year of the dogs life, the training lasts the life of the dog. Put a minimum of a CD on the dog, and you will have a well trained, behaved pet. Especially when it comes time to introduce a baby to the mix.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

nedved said:


> High drive relative to what? Comparing drives within working lines is one thing but comparing drives between breeds is something else. A working line dog will have higher drives than a non-working breed. And obviously working lines can make good pets but they require more from an owner. She said they plan on starting a family. When? Are they going to wait a couple of years for the puppy to mature?
> 
> When someone says they haven't decided between show and working lines that says they haven't come to a conclusive assessment of what they really want.


I have to say that I completely disagree that a working line dog would be a bad placement in this family. I've had dogs of a breed well known to be very mellow and calm be over the top, and dogs with a pretty healthy drive be quite content in the house chilling out. An active family who is willing to put some effort into stimulating their dog's mind would likely be a great match for a working line dog. 

Maybe this family hasn't made a firm decision on exactly what they want, but that's why they came here, to help figure it out. Only by getting out there and meeting several breeders are they likely to be able to narrow it down better, and the fact that they are doing their research now and trying to make a decision with more information already puts them a step higher than the "average" pet owner.


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## Renofan2 (Aug 27, 2010)

I also recommend Zahnburg kennels - Art Shaw. He has a litter now. Jim Hill - Von Wyndmoor kennel is also a good choice. He has a breeding planned in the spring with his competition male - Zwack as the sire.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

NJ Girl....get an older dog - either from a breeder or a rescue....I breed working lines and I am loathe to sell any young couple a puppy who plans on children "soon"....dogs are just as big a commitment as a baby....

People are recommending breeders whose priorities are high drive, working dogs, hard dogs and who need owners with commitment and experience.

Read the links Maggie Lee posted....rethink your goals, lifestyles etc....working line pups are NOT for everyone!

Lee


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## NJGirl (Jan 21, 2014)

As I shared in my original post, my husband and I grew up with working breeds: GSDs and Rottweilers. I'm well aware that GSDs are not Labradors and that whatever dog we choose will require regular excercise, stimulating play, lots of training, and socialization. I don't see a GSD being incompatible with a family either. We will likely try to start a family a year or more after we get our puppy. Being that GSDs are such a popular breed, there are MANY families out there with GSDs and infants and children. You are welcome to disagree with this plan, but I know my situation and what I can handle. I do know I do not want a dog that has a very strong prey drive or one with an overly dominant temperament. We've looked at both show line and working line dogs because I've received mixed messages from breeders. Some working line breeders have told me their dogs are ideal family companions while others have not. We also don't necessarily need to have a tan/black coat as some want. The show line dogs are also often over our price range. If I planned to show or compete with my dog, I would likely invest more but to me it just seems excessive to pay $2500 or more for a family companion. Ultimately, we want a healthy pup with a temperament suitable to our lifestyle. Thank you to those of you who gave input on these breeders and offered suggestions on others.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There are a few recommendations in this thread

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/185707-east-coast-working-line-breeders-2.html

Here is a breeder group on Facebook that someone may be able to give you a better list of breeders
https://www.facebook.com/groups/100827050053129/


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Hi NJGirl,

Welcome to the site!!! 

I think some folks are being sensitive to this because there are so many dogs being put into shelters because 'we had kids and don't have time for the dog'. Doesn't mean YOU and your husband will be that way but it's a problem and we are starting to see more working lines in kill shelters, so with that in mind I hope that you will stick around, lots of great info on this site.

On the working line vs showline debate. I think Lee said it best.

I was going to get a working line but ended up with a show line and turns out that probably was for the best. for me at this time. I've now spent time around working lines and they are different. 

I think that working line breeders who express caution about the requirements of their dogs are being honest, they could give you 'a line' to try and sell you a dog, or they can be honest and care more about your needs and their dog's needs too. 

I really suggest getting out there and meeting with good breeders so you can get a feel for the dogs. I know you're not getting into Schutzhund but try to get out to some trails in your area if you can. Then just observe and listen....you'll get better feel for the working lines that way. 

Same with show lines, go to some breeders, interact with the dogs and then you and your hubby will be able to figure out what will be the best fit for your family.

I'd say, in general, based on your description, desires and future plans for having a family a show line would stack the odds in favor of getting a dog that fits what you describe. You can find it in a working line but I think you'd need to make sure the breeder can help you select the right temperament (like avoiding high prey drive you asked about). 

The next issue is the price. Good show line breeders are competing with their dogs, often all around the country in conformation and IPO, doing all the health tests for hips, elbows, DM. Those costs get passed onto all the puppies, even ones that aren't show quality. The costs are more about using proven breed worthy parents AND ensuring the health of the puppies, whether they are show quality pups or not. This applies to good working line breeders as well, it's just that the overall price is a little lower for working lines.

My suggestion is, if you do decide a show line is the way to go for you, save a little more money because what that extra cost really represents is breed worthy parents who produce healthy puppies overall. That's *mostly* what you're paying for from a good serious breeder. IMO it's worth the extra cost to get a dog that will be a good fit for you and your family.

You are on the right path doing your research, take your time and you'll find the right breeder/pup for you. 

I wish you best of luck in your puppy search!




NJGirl said:


> As I shared in my original post, my husband and I grew up with working breeds: GSDs and Rottweilers. I'm well aware that GSDs are not Labradors and that whatever dog we choose will require regular excercise, stimulating play, lots of training, and socialization. I don't see a GSD being incompatible with a family either. We will likely try to start a family a year or more after we get our puppy. Being that GSDs are such a popular breed, there are MANY families out there with GSDs and infants and children. You are welcome to disagree with this plan, but I know my situation and what I can handle. I do know I do not want a dog that has a very strong prey drive or one with an overly dominant temperament. We've looked at both show line and working line dogs because I've received mixed messages from breeders. Some working line breeders have told me their dogs are ideal family companions while others have not. We also don't necessarily need to have a tan/black coat as some want. The show line dogs are also often over our price range. If I planned to show or compete with my dog, I would likely invest more but to me it just seems excessive to pay $2500 or more for a family companion. *Ultimately, we want a healthy pup with a temperament suitable to our lifestyle.* Thank you to those of you who gave input on these breeders and offered suggestions on others.


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## NJGirl (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks very much, Gwen!

Your advise is very helpful! We've been leaning toward a show line dog but are sorting out whether American lines or German lines are better.. I'm finding that to find a good GSD breeder is so much harder than some other breeds since there are so many of them and so many lines. I certainly understand concerns about dogs ending up in shelters. We've been contacting and visiting breeders for over a year as we don't take this decision lightly. We truly want to find the right dog for us. Our decision to buy a dog rather than adopt one didn't come easily either. We do want a puppy or young dog and the fact that we have cats often makes adopting a dog hard since the majority of rescues I inquire about I'm told are aggressive toward cats. 

I've seen some huge price differences among show line breeders. Is it bad that some offer pups that are health tested and DM clear for $2000 while others ask $2600 or more? Would the less costly pups be inferior pets? Also, many of the showline breeders whelp many litters a year from many females. Is this a bad thing? What are the major differences between American and German show lines? Thanks!


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

NJGirl said:


> I've seen some huge price differences among show line breeders. Is it bad that some offer pups that are health tested and DM clear for $2000 while others ask $2600 or more? Would the less costly pups be inferior pets? Also, many of the showline breeders whelp many litters a year from many females. Is this a bad thing? What are the major differences between American and German show lines? Thanks!


Price is an imperfect proxy at best for quality. I think it's safe to say that you are probably not going to find an ethical, knowledgeable breeder of show line dogs (either American or German) who is selling their pups for $500 -- but that doesn't mean the breeder charging $3000 is automatically better than the one charging $2000.

My feeling is that you can set a floor and knock out everyone whose price is below that floor, because very probably those dogs have not been shown or campaigned in any working or performance venue. They may also lack appropriate health tests. All that stuff costs money, so breeders selling below a certain minimum value probably aren't doing it. The breeders who come in above that price point _may_ be worth considering.

There is no way to say whether one line of dogs is "better" than the other. These are conformation dogs, so they are bred primarily to meet a certain physical appearance. The look of a German showline dog is distinctively different from that of an American showline dog, but really it just comes down to which one you personally prefer. It is a purely aesthetic choice, there's no "better" or "worse." Temperament, physical soundness, intelligence, working drive, etc. -- all of that can vary widely, so when evaluating those things, you have to look at each breeder's program individually.

Personally I would not buy a puppy from a breeder producing a lot of different litters every year. There are lots of threads in which people discuss the merits of such commercial operations; it's worth doing a search on the forum to see what the reasoning is behind those opinions and how you want to consider them yourself.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm going to disagree with that RE: ASL v WGSL.

There is a difference beyond conformation and looks.

As we know this is a very, very touchy subject.... but this point is one that I've yet to seen disproven. When was the last ASL going back at least 4 generations of ASL breeding that got an IPO3, in the last 30 years or so? I've looked, found some SL dogs in Canada but they had WGSL fairly close up in the pedigree. If I'm wrong I'd like to see the pedigree and will stand corrected.

BUT it is certainly fair to say ASLs just do not really compete in bite sports. WGSLs do and that's because they still have the ability. Now the WGSLs aren't the super star podium dogs in IPO like WLs are BUT they do the work and have the drives. There are ASLs competing in agility, OB, rally, herding and lots of other non bite sports but they don't compete, breed, or test for temperament/drives to compete in bite sports.




Merciel said:


> Price is an imperfect proxy at best for quality. I think it's safe to say that you are probably not going to find an ethical, knowledgeable breeder of show line dogs (either American or German) who is selling their pups for $500 -- but that doesn't mean the breeder charging $3000 is automatically better than the one charging $2000.
> 
> My feeling is that you can set a floor and knock out everyone whose price is below that floor, because very probably those dogs have not been shown or campaigned in any working or performance venue. They may also lack appropriate health tests. All that stuff costs money, so breeders selling below a certain minimum value probably aren't doing it. The breeders who come in above that price point _may_ be worth considering.
> 
> ...


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

You're welcome. As I like to say, German Shepherds, the most complicated dog breed in the world!

You haven't even gotten into the various sub-lines within the working lines yet.  DDR, WGWL, Czech, Belgium and the breeding for different drives and such.

It's all on a spectrum. We can generalize but within each line you'll find individuals that defy the stereo types.

So....it's about stacking odds in your favor. I've owned a rescue, an American Show Line (ASL) and a West German Showline.....and on a general spectrum I'd say the WGSL is in the middle between the WL and ASL as far as temperament (prey, defense and such) for protection, bite sports and law enforcement, where the WLs are used far more often for Law enforcement and tops in IPO & protection, the WGSL in bite sports and for protection, the American Show line more in non bite sports in addition to conformation.

So if you're not wanting to compete in bite sports then I see no reason why you shouldn't consider an American Showline. We have a couple of members on this board that breed and compete in conformation and dog sports with their dogs. They would be great folks for you to PM about good American Showline breeders. 

As to the price sometimes it reflects a super breeding with a top sire and top bitch in show and sport. Sometimes it reflects someone using it as a marketing ploy, where folks will think the higher $$$ = a better dog. It really depends on the breeder. If you find a good conscientious breeder you should be o.k. Also, a breeder who stands behind his/her dogs is very important. Even the best breeder will have pups occasionally with health issues since genetics are somewhat unpredictable. So what matters is also their reputation and what they do when problems do arise.

I would suggest meeting American Show line dogs along with West German Show line dogs. Get a feel for them and narrow down your breeders. When you've got your breeders narrowed down come on back here and post about the specific breeders. That way you'll get some specific feedback if the dogs are worth the price.....

It sounds like you've already got a good base of information built up so just checking the dogs out in person probably is the next best step for you. Just don't fall for puppy fever when you see cute little fluff balls at the breeders. 





NJGirl said:


> Thanks very much, Gwen!
> 
> Your advise is very helpful! We've been leaning toward a show line dog but are sorting out whether American lines or German lines are better.. I'm finding that to find a good GSD breeder is so much harder than some other breeds since there are so many of them and so many lines. I certainly understand concerns about dogs ending up in shelters. We've been contacting and visiting breeders for over a year as we don't take this decision lightly. We truly want to find the right dog for us. Our decision to buy a dog rather than adopt one didn't come easily either. We do want a puppy or young dog and the fact that we have cats often makes adopting a dog hard since the majority of rescues I inquire about I'm told are aggressive toward cats.
> 
> I've seen some huge price differences among show line breeders. Is it bad that some offer pups that are health tested and DM clear for $2000 while others ask $2600 or more? Would the less costly pups be inferior pets? Also, many of the showline breeders whelp many litters a year from many females. Is this a bad thing? What are the major differences between American and German show lines? Thanks!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

"Andaka" is the screen name for a member here that breeds, shows and has in depth knowledge of American Show lines, breeders and pedigrees.

Send her a PM for suggestions or guidance on breeders.


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## NJGirl (Jan 21, 2014)

Thank you so much again, everyone! You've given me a lot to read up on. I've contacted a few WGSL and ASL breeders to learn more about their dogs and hope to visit a few in the next few months to narrow down our choices.


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## tolzersf84 (Feb 13, 2015)

Do NOT buy a GSD from Vom Benza Haus...Sheila and Peter!!! Purchased a pup tha come to find out had a bone disorder in right rear leg. They mocked me when I attempted to discribe the problem as a hard muscle, etc. "That's not a medical term" is what they emailed me back! We took the pup to our Vet within 36 hours. He had a fever of a 104.5, would not eat, had the dry heaves, loose stool, lethargic...The Vet took xrays and found a very clear bone disorder in the poor pup's leg...which was also the reason he had a fever, etc. She said he more than likely had an infecction in there, which would explain the solid mass around his right rear elbow! They were extremely rude and condescending! And...they have refused to answer any of our calls or emails to discuss the vet bill...$312...which they said and I quote...We won't stiff ya!"...Save yourselves a lot of BS and get a GSD from one of many other breeders in New England. These people are weird to boot!!


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## Fezzik von barry (Feb 26, 2014)

We are from Long Island and we found breeders from the AKC website. 
I remember there were quite a few in NJ when we were looking about a year ago. I would just contact who you are interested in and go from there. 
Best of luck!


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## Prooney (May 20, 2015)

Xeph said:


> I wouldn't go to Eichenluft. Personal experience. Also out of your price range anyway.
> 
> I haven't heard anything but good things about the rest


Why wouldnt you reccomend them? Tried to PM you, but since im new it wont allow me too. Thanks. Considering Eichenluft.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

My neighbors have a Von Ledgemere Shepherd.
They were very happy with the breeder.
Their dog Roxi is gorgeous...blond and black.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Prooney - why don't you start your own thread and list where you are, range of miles you are looking within and what you are looking for in a dog. 

Here is a list of breeders in the North and East.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/185707-east-coast-working-line-breeders.html


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## Nynole1 (Dec 21, 2013)

I bought a male puppy from Jim Hill at von Wyndmoor in January from the Zwack/mask a litter. Jim was very helpful and owns an immaculate kennel and training grounds. My puppy, Ziggy von Wyndmoor (we call him Bjorn), is absolutely beautiful. I will tell you as someone who owned American show lines before, this working line dog is a COMPLETELY different animal, pun intended! 
He is now almost 5 months old and is a handful. If I do not wear him out during the day, there is no sleep at night. He is a good dog but he is relentless and strong as a bull at 45 lbs already. I would be lying if I said I didn't get frustrated from time to time but he has a lot of potential to be a wonderful dog. That being said, he is a lot of work and will "challenge" me at times. My wife is not able/willing to handle him when he gets crazy, so just know there is a lot to owning a working line GSD. Good luck!


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## Prooney (May 20, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> Prooney - why don't you start your own thread and list where you are, range of miles you are looking within and what you are looking for in a dog.
> 
> Here is a list of breeders in the North and East
> 
> ...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

How about Erich Grasso in CT
German Shepherds for Sale in Connecticut (CT) | Police Dogs for Sale

I've met a couple of dogs he's imported and sold. Seems to do a nice job matching up the dogs with the clients.


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## Prooney (May 20, 2015)

Thanks Jax, just shot him an email.


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