# Breeder picks puppy?



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I have seen threads where breeders picking a puppy for the prospective buyers, seems somehow connected to whether a breeder is "reputable or not.
The whole idea of breeders picking pups accurately is questionable to me.
I'm not against them picking as long as it's ok by both parties.

Zena my 2 and a half year old was picked for me. I didn't have a problem with that but I never thought for a minute that there was one right puppy for us.

I fail to see where a breeder is inherently more "reputable" because they pick the pups.

The idea that a breeder can pick the "right" puppy for ,say, a litter of eight just seems goofy to me.

Lets say you have eight different requests from prospective buyers. There are the variables of eight different people for eight somewhat different pups. 

How can that litter just happen to be the right group for those eight people.

Or how about the prospective buyers aren't that much different from one another. Same litter. 

Who gets the bold one and who gets the shy one? Are you told "yours is the shy one".

I don't think that just because a breeder lets the buyers pick, that somehow makes them a less qualified breeder.

Also, as much as we don't like to think of puppies as a product, they are.

Isn't one buyers money as good as the next persons?

I don't believe there is a right or wrong here. Just things to think about.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

My parents very first border collie was picked by my dad at the breeders farm, he walked into about 7 puppies, and picked the one that came over to greet him did not get over excited then went back and laid down


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> I have seen threads where breeders picking a puppy for the prospective buyers, seems somehow connected to whether a breeder is "reputable or not.
> The whole idea of breeders picking pups accurately is questionable to me.
> I'm not against them picking as long as it's ok by both parties.
> 
> ...


12 years ago when we got our last puppy from a breeder we picked, and it was the norm. I was somewhat horrified to learn that now breeders pick the puppy. 

With the rescue we did not pick, we allowed people to choose which puppy they wanted. We did however restrict a couple of the dogs to families with no young kids & we pointed that out right up front. This puppy and this puppy are only available to homes with NO young children.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

My breeder picked my dog for me because she was a little tyrant and I wanted the craziest female to do schutzhund with. Another family wanted a calmer family dog to dabble in sport with. We both got what we wanted - Versailles is crazy and driven, their dog is more laid back and has much lower energy. I think it's definitely possible for the breeder to know what pup will best match a home.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The bold one always stays with the breeder! lol
I am not a fan of the 'first pick' type situation, because it makes me think the breeder is more concerned about sales than proper matching. So does this breeder screen potential owners or even know what they want to do with the puppy if they are just letting the first buyer with a check that clears pick the puppy according to the date of the deposit?
I've picked two of my pups(farmer had a litter of GSD's~we were the first to reply to the newspaper ad in the '80's and another was a litter from a rescue) They were both great dogs...but I had no intention of competing with them.
For a pup I'd want to do sportwork with, I'd much rather have breeder input. 
Onyx was the last female the breeder had available, she wasn't letting her go to just any home because of her dominant personality. Breeder didn't let the owners choose, steered them to the best pup for their home. Onyx would have been failed, I think if she wasn't placed with a committed owner.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

Most of the breeders I know of will want puppies that show great potential to go to show homes and buyers experienced in training. My experience has been that any puppies not allocated (as above) go to mum and dad buyers and that people can generally choose their own puppy with the help of the breeder. I had pick of the litter with Harry but I don't have the experience to pick a potential champion, they all looked and moved the same to me, so I let the puppy choose me. Also, I should mention the breeder of Harry screens all buyers as to experience and where puppy will live, she will either like to visit the potential buyers home or see photos.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Harry and Lola said:


> Most of the breeders I know of will want puppies that show great potential to go to show homes and buyers experienced in training. My experience has been that any puppies not allocated (as above) go to mum and dad buyers and that people can generally choose their own puppy with the help of the breeder. I had pick of the litter with Harry but I don't have the experience to pick a potential champion, they all looked and moved the same to me, so I let the puppy choose me. Also, I should mention the breeder of Harry screens all buyers as to experience and where puppy will live, she will either like to visit the potential buyers home or see photos.


Your first sentence is one of my concerns. If we are all paying the same, I want the best puppy I can get and I don't want that to mean the best one after those with great potential go to show homes. 
Or in the case of working lines, after the IPO people get theirs.
Does that make sense to anyone.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Well, If I say I want to do IPO, and you say you want an active companion...which is the 'best? The best is the perfect match for what we are looking for.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Well, If I say I want to do IPO, and you say you want an active companion...which is the 'best? The best is the perfect match for what we are looking for.


Not necessarily. The IPO dog might very have the exact characteristics I want.

I want the puppy that is the most bold, most curious and goes willingly where angels fear to tread. You think I'll get that one if it's going to be "just" a family companion.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i don't have much faith in the breeder picking a pup for me.
the breeder picks a pup for you. a week later, months later,
a year later that's not the same pup it was when you got the
pup at 8 weeks old.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Jack's Dad said:


> If we are all paying the same, I want the best puppy I can get and I don't want that to mean the best one after those with great potential go to show homes.
> Or in the case of working lines, after the IPO people get theirs.
> Does that make sense to anyone.


No, it really doesn't make any sense to me.

If you are looking for an affectionate, active companion, why would you care about tiny little differences in your dog's topline or head shape? Why would you care if your dog had a splash of white in the center of his chest, or an ear tip that failed to stand up all the way, or a testicle that didn't descend? Those cosmetic faults are killer to a show dog's career, but they don't make a bit of difference for a companion dog.

For a companion home, what's _much_ more important is the dog's health, sound temperament, and compatibility with the family lifestyle.

Your "best" isn't my "best."

And, honestly, I don't have any problem at all with a breeder placing their top show prospects in show homes, or their top performance prospects in performance homes. Why _not_ maximize the puppy's potential? Why not get a potentially great breeding prospect out there for the wider world to see? It does more good for the breeder's program, preserves the bloodline, and ultimately (one hopes) potentially strengthens the breed as a whole.

My feeling is that if you are a breeder, you have a responsibility not only to the individual puppy and the individual home, but -- if you follow the ideal of being a "steward of the breed" -- to the breed as a whole. Sometimes that might be a factor in placement decisions, if all else is equal, and I don't see anything wrong with that. It serves the greatest good for the most parties.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i foumd a breeder that had the color i wanted. her dogs
come with all the bells and whistles and all of those letters.
all of her dogs are tested and have Schutzhund titles. her
dogs are internationally known.

i figured if her dogs can achieve all of this then i know
it's going to be easy to train my dog to be the pet/companion/
go everywhere dog and he's protective. i saw and heard him bark
at a deer in our backyard and he turned it up a notch and barked
at his reflection in the front door. don't be jealous Schutzhundner's.







onyx'girl said:


> Well, If I say I want to do IPO, and you say you want an active companion...which is the 'best? The best is the perfect match for what we are looking for.





Jack's Dad said:


> Not necessarily. The IPO dog might very have the exact characteristics I want.
> 
> I want the puppy that is the most bold, most curious and goes willingly where angels fear to tread. You think I'll get that one if it's going to be "just" a family companion.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Honestly, I'd never wish my dog on ANY 'companion home'. Too much drive. She wouldn't have made it through the first year without getting returned or rehomed. Best definitely is different for different people - if you DO want an incredibly active, drivey dog.. you let the breeder know. They'd decide whether or not you could handle it.

Disagree with the testicle thing, in my opinion that is a bigger flaw than just appearance, color, etc and causes a higher expense for neuter down the road and health problems if not handled.. I'm talking more on drives because that is what I think makes or breaks a forever home.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Merciel said:


> No, it really doesn't make any sense to me.
> 
> If you are looking for an affectionate, active companion, why would you care about tiny little differences in your dog's topline or head shape? Why would you care if your dog had a splash of white in the center of his chest, or an ear tip that failed to stand up all the way, or a testicle that didn't descend? Those cosmetic faults are killer to a show dog's career, but they don't make a bit of difference for a companion dog.


But if that is the case, why are we (pet homes) paying the same price for a dog with a splash of white or an ear tip that doesn't stand?


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> But if that is the case, why are we (pet homes) paying the same price for a dog with a splash of white or an ear tip that doesn't stand?



You're paying for the temperment, health/guarantee and all the things that are important to *you*, and I pay for what's important to me.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Why I might care about such things really doesn't matter. If those cosmetic things could ruin a career then why aren't the cosmetically 
challenged dogs cheaper. They rarely are. Working lines are almost never discounted.

I could safely say you and I are probably not interested in the same type dog. Alas though we have gone astray. Why is a breeder who picks puppies better than one who lets the buyer pick?




Merciel said:


> No, it really doesn't make any sense to me.
> 
> If you are looking for an affectionate, active companion, why would you care about tiny little differences in your dog's topline or head shape? Why would you care if your dog had a splash of white in the center of his chest, or an ear tip that failed to stand up all the way, or a testicle that didn't descend? Those cosmetic faults are killer to a show dog's career, but they don't make a bit of difference for a companion dog.
> 
> ...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

shepherdmom said:


> But if that is the case, why are we (pet homes) paying the same price for a dog with a splash of white or an ear tip that doesn't stand?


Many show breeders have price brackets that charge differently for the splash of white or soft ear....
or you can order a delux super special for the right price.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

:rofl:

My dog barked at a deer. Look out WUSV!



Shaina,

People don't know what high drive dogs are until they experience them. I used to think I knew, then I started working dogs and found out just how naive I was. 



doggiedad said:


> i foumd a breeder that had the color i wanted. her dogs
> come with all the bells and whistles and all of those letters.
> all of her dogs are tested and have Schutzhund titles. her
> dogs are internationally known.
> ...


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

David Winners said:


> :rofl:
> 
> My dog barked at a deer. Look out WUSV!
> 
> ...


Yeah. For my first dog I was way in over my head (but man do I love her in all of her insane glory. It's like having a forever-6-month-old dog!). I hear some shepherds come with off buttons - anyone want to let me borrow theirs?


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Shaina said:


> Honestly, I'd never wish my dog on ANY 'companion home'. Too much drive. She wouldn't have made it through the first year without getting returned or rehomed. Best definitely is different for different people - if you DO want an incredibly active, drivey dog.. you let the breeder know. They'd decide whether or not you could handle it.
> 
> Disagree with the testicle thing, in my opinion that is a bigger flaw than just appearance, color, etc and causes a higher expense for neuter down the road and health problems if not handled.. I'm talking more on drives because that is what I think makes or breaks a forever home.


I think the key here is in picking the right breeder and litter. If you do that successfully then there shouldn't be a huge disparity in the litter.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Why is a breeder who picks puppies better than one who lets the buyer pick?


Not better, but more responsible? The breeder knows their puppy best. I was recently visiting a litter (5 weeks old) and fell in love with a blue collar black male. He was really focused on me, gentle yet pushy and I was smitten out of a litter of 9...he had my eye. 3 hours later, we went back in to play with the litter and he was a totally different puppy. Very rambunctious, not into me and another one caught my eye. 
Now had I chosen a pup from that interaction, would I have gotten 'the' pup of my dreams? Probably, because every pup in the litter could be what I want. The breeder breeds for versatility and work. 
But really my snippet of time with the litter told me nothing of the total personalities that the breeder see's day in and day out. 
Not everyone on the breeders reserve list wants the same thing, so letting the breeder do the final placement is key to the pups success! Especially if people are looking for an agility or SAR dog...or an IPO dog vs a pet companion.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Jack's Dad said:


> Lets say you have eight different requests from prospective buyers. There are the variables of eight different people for eight somewhat different pups.
> How can that litter just happen to be the right group for those eight people.


Good breeders often have waiting lists so they aren't trying to match up 8 dogs with 8 people, they're trying to find 8 homes with 14 owners to choose from.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I have always heard that most litters from working lines will have a few more suitable for 'pet homes', or at least homes not looking for a top competitor in Schutzhund. Doesn't mean the other pups aren't great stable, active, social dogs.. just that they don't have that high spark that a few of the others might. I don't have any experience with show lines so can't say anything on that.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Good breeders often have waiting lists so they aren't trying to match up 8 dogs with 8 people, they're trying to find 8 homes with 14 owners to choose from.


Yep. Hypotheticals make it hard to cover all possibilities.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> You're paying for the temperment, health/guarantee and all the things that are important to *you*, and I pay for what's important to me.


Well I rescue now so the point is really moot for me, but if I was paying that price for a dog, I would expect up ears and no white and a perfect temperament.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm glad my breeders pick for me. Takes the stress off me haha. With my current puppy, I spent tons of time with the litter. Multiple days a week out there playing with the puppies. Not once did I consider the puppy I ended up getting. The breeder has a lot of faith in my abilities and said she's the one for me so I believed him. I couldn't be happier with how she's turning out. So far the easiest puppy I have raised.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Jack's Dad said:


> I think the key here is in picking the right breeder and litter. If you do that successfully then there shouldn't be a huge disparity in the litter.


This. I don't think within most "reputable" breeders programs there is a HUGE spectrum in the litter. It seems that there are usually one or two higher drive/dominant "stand over the food bowl" pups, and the rest would do well in most any pet home or "I want to dabble in IPO/competition." I could be completely wrong, just seems to be the common theme in the working breeders I know personally (not GSD). 

I think the other wrench thrown into the equation here is the HUGE plethora of colors in the GSD. Most of the time the people I see that want "pick of the litter" are people who REALLY care about color and size (I want a large, black sable, male...I want a large black and red female). It also seems that most breeders aren't "you get what I say, or you get nothing." Most have lots of chats with the buyers, talk to them about the pup they picked for them and why....I'm willing to bet the buyers are so thrilled and excited by the descriptions and pics they are receiving, they don't care much about getting to pick their own.

To your question though..."why is a breeder that doesn't let you pick better than one that does." I think it's just a large generalization. Just like saying, *most around here are already above and beyond what the rest of the "pet world" does with their dogs (I mean, how many of you have "dog friends" and then "normal friends" lol....I kid...kind of). I think it's mostly fair to assume that a breeder that is showing, titling, testing, etc....putting lots and lots of time and money into their pups, are going to have a huge hand in what happens to each pup. Those that are putting minimal time and money into their pups, *mostly, won't have too much invested in where/who the pups go to.

Of course there are grand exceptions to every rule. I just think it's a generalization. Just like the generalization that most on here aren't the "average" pet owner. If any of that makes sense.


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

If you don't trust a breeder to pick a puppy for you, don't buy from that breeder *shrug*

Personally I think the insights a breeder has about the individual puppies within a litter, based upon knowledge of the lines and knowledge of the breed plus much more opportunity to observe and "test" the puppies, are going to be superior to what I can determine based upon the limited opportunities I would have to look at the litter. 

The puppy that comes out large and in charge on a given day may be the less assertive puppy on most other days. Buyers get a window of observation, breeders have lived with the puppies.

And I don't expect that simply because I am paying the same amount of money as other buyers that a good breeder is going to place a top prospect with me versus a known show and/or performance home or keeping the puppy back for herself. And if I come in looking for a companion and have no plans to work the dog and title it in any way? No way should I get to waltz in and pick a puppy who might be a "star" in the hands of someone who does do dog sports/shows/what-have-you. 

Generally speaking all the puppies within a litter cost the same to breed and raise. I've never been a fan of a price difference within a litter, and many breed clubs have begun to discourage the practice. But I think it is reasonable and I do expect to see different prices for different litters based upon titles etc. 

I am happy to fill out lengthy questionnaires and talk on the phone about my experience and what I want to do with a dog and what I like and don't like in terms of temperament and then place my trust in the breeder to match me up with the puppy that most closely fits. There is no benefit to them in not making as good a match as they possibly can. They want their puppies to go to homes that are suitable. 

I don't believe breeder pick automatically makes a breeder a reputable breeder or that allowing buyers to pick automatically makes a breeder disreputable. Reputation is more complex than that. So, really, pick a breeder with a stellar reputation whose placement policy makes you, as a buyer, happy. But be aware that the majority of good and reputable breeders, not all, but the majority, place puppies.


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## Discoetheque (Nov 2, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> Well I rescue now so the point is really moot for me, but if I was paying that price for a dog, I would expect up ears and no white and a perfect temperament.


...Your expectations would be borderline unreasonable and I'd dread dealing with such an attitude if I was a breeder. A puppy is not a Maserati. They're not mass produced with near-precision predictability. They're living, individual beings of genetics which are still not completely understood to human beings. Things do happen. With a reputable breeder, they might be a bit less likely to happen, but things still do happen. 

That said, my dog was chosen by my breeder. And I don't regret a minute of it. I love Discoe, and though it's tough to say what parts of the other females in that litter were influenced by nature and what parts were influenced by genetics, if we were to line up the others and I get a second chance to choose the dog, I would still choose the dog I have today. The breeders KNOW the dogs. They spend eight weeks plus with them, while potential owners drop by for barely an hour, maybe two or three separate times if they're THAT diligent. I have no problem deferring to the person with the most knowledge in a situation to guide me, especially regarding a lifetime commitment as dire as this.


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Not better, but more responsible? The breeder knows their puppy best. I was recently visiting a litter (5 weeks old) and fell in love with a blue collar black male. He was really focused on me, gentle yet pushy and I was smitten out of a litter of 9...he had my eye. 3 hours later, we went back in to play with the litter and he was a totally different puppy. Very rambunctious, not into me and another one caught my eye.
> Now had I chosen a pup from that interaction, would I have gotten 'the' pup of my dreams? Probably, because every pup in the litter could be what I want. The breeder breeds for versatility and work.
> But really my snippet of time with the litter told me nothing of the total personalities that the breeder see's day in and day out.
> Not everyone on the breeders reserve list wants the same thing, so letting the breeder do the final placement is key to the pups success! Especially if people are looking for an agility or SAR dog...or an IPO dog vs a pet companion.


To be fair he* is* a total little studmuffin


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Not to mention, often pups are bought from homes out of state. My girl and her brother that I described earlier, we live in Colorado and they came out from Boston. Neither of us got to meet our pups beforehand - we trusted the breeder to make the right decision for us.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Discoetheque said:


> ...Your expectations would be borderline unreasonable and I'd dread dealing with such an attitude if I was a breeder. A puppy is not a Maserati. They're not mass produced with near-precision predictability. They're living, individual beings of genetics which are still not completely understood to human beings. Things do happen. With a reputable breeder, they might be a bit less likely to happen, but things still do happen.


I can go down to almost any shelter in the country on any given day and find a multitude of GSD's of all ages sizes colors and lines. If I'm going to pay $1500 or more for a puppy why shouldn't I expect the best? If I'm going to be paying the same price as a show line buyer or a working line buyer shouldn't I be getting the same quality dog?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I picked out my GSD without the help of the breeder. He was from a byb and he was the last black male, I met him and I fell in love with him, he was/is to date the best decision I have ever made and the best thing I have ever spent money on. He's perfect. :wub:

I went through a reputable and responsible breeder to get my Dalmatian. I knew exactly what I was looking for in a puppy and I told the breeder what I wanted too. Out of the 4 puppies she had left, 2 of them were a better fit for me. After spending time with them together and then one on one. I asked her what the differences were between the puppies, the puppy I didn't choose was a little more confident, curious and adventurous than the puppy I did choose but it really didn't matter, he won my heart when we had our one on one time. He spent more time interested in me than he was with digging holes and chasing bugs. He turned out to be the perfect choice, his breeder and I agree that he was the one for me and he definitely ended up in the right home. :wub:

I want the breeder's input, I want the breeder to be able to tell me about each puppy and what he/she thinks would be a good match for me but I also want to have a say in which puppy I take home. I think it needs to be agreed upon between the breeder and I.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

GrammaD said:


> To be fair he* is* a total little studmuffin


No kidding!! And I am partial to his name :wub:

The same day I played with that litter I went to another well known local kennel and was able to play with another litter the same age(yes the breeder was aware of where I was earlier in the day).

The pups were sleepy and had I not known that they were busy playing before I got there, I would have thought they were low drive, mellow pups. After a bit, they became more active. 

The timing of visiting litters to observe also plays into how they appear drive-wise.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Jack's Dad said:


> I'm not against them picking as long as it's ok by both parties.


I agree with this. I need to like/want the puppy too, so if the breeder were to try to give me a puppy that I didn't find appealing temperament wise, I wouldn't take it. 



Jack's Dad said:


> I fail to see where a breeder is inherently more "reputable" because they pick the pups.
> 
> The idea that a breeder can pick the "right" puppy for ,say, a litter of eight just seems goofy to me.
> 
> ...


The breeder should know each puppy's personality, they should spend a lot of time around the puppies, they should be able to tell you about each puppy if you ask about them. They should know those puppies better than anyone. 

What if a pet owner that only wants a pet, has no plans to do sports with their dog and they are a lower energy family chooses the most energetic puppy simply because they thought it was the cutest or it was the color they liked? What if someone wanting to do sports or bitework chooses the puppy with the lowest energy and the puppy is shy or nervous?

I do not like the idea of someone being able to choose whatever puppy they want unless they are an experienced owner of that particular breed, they know exactly what they are looking for and they can see the potential in that puppy.

Inexperienced dog owners should not be able to pick their puppy. JMO


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

If I were a breeder and put all of my money, time, sweat and tears into my dogs, I would want to make sure that my best performance (show or work) puppy went to the home that I knew would take the pup as far as it could go (show or work). I certainly wouldn't want to waste it's potential on a newbie. Not just because the dog may very well be too much dog for them, but they'd never be able to showcase my bloodlines (that I've struggled to produce the best of the best) to the breed world. 

However, if I've done a good job as a breeder, all the puppies in my litter are going to show some sort of potential. I want All of my puppies to out perform (show, work or pet home) the next breeder's litter. 

And you ask, why do you pay the same? I ask, how did you know I was the best of the best breeder? Because someone before you showcased my stock. You take a puppy from me, work it, title it, love it. As a handler, you have to work hard to gain the status that will be required to be able to purchase that super pup. 

I have no problem with that as a handler and not a breeder. 

My Lacy breeder picked out my pup for me. He actual gave me a choice of two. I told him exactly what I expected from a pup. He told me I was a newbie and I had no idea what I was getting into with this breed. (He was right!!) He did not give me the best of the best. He gave me the best that he thought I could handle. The dog is still a rockstar. I'm (fingers crossed) getting him 'certified' in tracking next weekend. And we just started agility. His best pups/dogs go to people who use the dogs for what they are bred for. And people who use this breed know who they are. Part of my goal is not only for my dog to be well known in the Lacy community, but me as a handler/trainer be known too. My next dog will be the best of the best. Or, I'll keep working till I get there.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My first GSD puppy was picked for me. I told the breeder what I wanted to do, the type of life I lived and she picked Tara for me. She picked exactly the dog I was looking for. This was 29 years ago so not a new phenomenon. The only puppy the breeder did not pick for me was Nike, but by then I had already been in the breed for over 15 years and had titled 3 dogs. The breeder and I actually agreed on the puppy I picked so it would have turned out OK no matter who picked. 

As a breeder I have given my buyers a choice when two pups are very close in temperament. In my last litter the pet/companion person really liked the looks of Felarof. He had never seen sables so was naturally drawn to the black/tan. I knew fairly early that this was not going to be a puppy to put in the hands of a non working person. He has been very happy with the puppy he did receive. My goal is to get puppies into the right homes so that the puppy and the new owner are happy. If someone doesn't like my choice they are free to move on.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

mycobraracr said:


> You're paying for the temperment, health/guarantee and all the things that are important to *you*, and I pay for what's important to me.


I agree. 

PLUS, at this point I'm not actually thinking I'm paying for whatever puppy I get. Because there will always be a bit of a crap shoot as the pup grows up and things may crop up no one could have predicted.

So my MONEY is actually going to the breeder to support a breeding program I agree with. This means I need to do MY job and work on finding the best breeder who has goals to keep the breed to a standard I agree with. Health and temperament wise. 

Since the 'responsible' breeders I support now track their dogs and keep tabs on them for their LIFE. Do puppy testing and see how those result work out as the dogs ages. Learn, change, tweak, keep educating themselves, learn from the mistakes as well as their successes, constantly keep trying to work towards their goals................ that's what my $$$$$$ is for.

This means I trust the breeder enough that they CAN match the best puppy(s) with the owners background and experience. Since their puppy warranty/agreement means they will ALWAYS take a dog back no matter how old it is........... it's to their benefit to make the match right initially and NOT leave it up to us potential puppy owners who, when surrounded by a pack of adorable puppies for maybe an hour would more randomly pick from some arbitrary reason.

I feel cause the working lines I prefer can be SO MUCH MORE of a challenge to raise for many people, that it's for the puppy/dogs benefit so they don't end up having to be rehomed, or (god forbid if they lie to the breeder and break the puppy warranty) just get dumped in a shelter when that adorable puppy becomes a biting/chewing/house destroying nightmare that they were in no way prepared for.

Because shelters are where thousands of purebred, beautiful GSD's end up. And many of them are killed each year. While if their BREEDER had been responsible and chosen the potential puppy owners better, and kept track of them for the following year(s) better, and matched puppy/owner better at least THEIR pups wouldn't be on death row all the time.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Jenn, :thumbup:


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> So my MONEY is actually going to the breeder to support a breeding program I agree with. This means I need to do MY job and work on finding the best breeder who has goals to keep the breed to a standard I agree with. Health and temperament wise.


Very noble. Don't expect the majority of the people to feel the same way. That is why so many BYB abound.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

shepherdmom said:


> Very noble. Don't expect the majority of the people to feel the same way. That is why so many BYB abound.


EXACTLY!!!! That's why this board is such a great way to educate people that there are other ways to get a puppy. And ARE breeders who do NOT contribute to the over population in shelters/rescues.

A choice I make is to spend more money with a responsible breeder who takes care of their dogs for their lifetime. Rather then less money with a breeder who is adding to the problem, not intentionally, but still part of problem.


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## GSKnight (Oct 18, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i saw and heard him bark
> at a deer in our backyard and he turned it up a notch and barked
> at his reflection in the front door. don't be jealous Schutzhundner's.


This gets my vote for funniest post of the week!!!


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

shepherdmom said:


> But if that is the case, why are we (pet homes) paying the same price for a dog with a splash of white or an ear tip that doesn't stand?


As has been said, you're generally not. Those cosmetic faults would usually result in lower pricing for a "pet quality" puppy.

It is true that I haven't seen a lot of working-line breeders offering tiered pricing. I think it's a misconception that we're actually paying the same price for a dog, though. The puppy price is the same. But if/when I buy a puppy as a performance home, it is _also_ carrying the implicit promise that I am going to spend many thousands more to train and campaign that dog. That puppy is going to be a major investment, and to some (not all, but some!) breeders, that promise is worth something in the calculation of which pup goes where.

Even with that, I'm definitely a second-tier performance home. There are breeders that I know for a fact would sell me a dog, but would probably sell me the third- or fourth-best obedience puppy in the litter, because they have OTCH/MACH homes lined up to take the very best prospects.

And I'm fine with that. The difference in those litters would be maybe like 97/100 instead of 99/100, and that's the _potential at eight weeks old_. Who knows how the pups will rank three or four years later when they're trained and matured.

Furthermore, I don't train the same way or do the same sports that others do. A good breeder will know that Puppy A, who's maybe a touch clingy, has stellar rear-end awareness, and has a lot of patience for practicing exercises over and over and over for minute differences in position, would be a promising candidate for my sports. Meanwhile Puppy B might be an independent, stubborn little bitemonster with zero interest in repetition drills and a death grip at eight weeks old -- not a puppy _I'd_ be likely to take as my first choice, but a lot more appealing for someone looking to do different activities.

Which of those puppies is "the best"?

In a situation like that, it's not a difference in quality. It's a difference in personality. Probably not a very big one, either, if the litter is consistent. But those little differences matter enough to me that I strongly prefer breeders who know their pups well enough to tell me which is which, and who take those factors into consideration when making puppy placements.


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

My puppy is from what seems to be considered a very reputable breeder on this forum, and I picked him. She did narrow it down to a small group of puppies, and then told us the results of the temperament testing, but I had about 5 puppies to choose from and there were also other people there picking out their puppies at the same time. I had spent time with the puppies and had a list in my head of order of preference, but ended up for some reason picking a puppy lower on my list. I have been thrilled with him, but think I probably would have ended up very happy with any of the pups.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

the breeders i have spoken with
charge more for a show quality dog
than pet quality
same for potential breeding stock which are
show quality vs pet quality
in that case i'd trust my breeder to pick for me
the pup with the most chances of winning 
whatever it was i was going for
if just a companion or pet, i do not need to pay 
top dollar and they do no expect me to


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think people often read way too much into this "pick" thing. The reality is that most of the time, the picking is done by both the breeder and the buyer. I don't just walk in blind and take a puppy home. If I'm not local to the breeder, I spend considerable time explaining or even demonstrating what I want/don't want. So in a way, even a puppy I've never met before the day he comes home was in part "picked" by me. In each case, it gets narrowed down pretty quickly based on color, gender, and/or coat type. After that, the breeder and I work together to pick, whether that's in long distance conversations or in person when available. Most times, I'd probably be happy with any of, say, 3 puppies the breeder thinks shows potential. When I got Legend, the breeder actually sent me two puppies. They were both different, but each on possessed qualities I wanted. One was more "busy" and inquisitive, the first puppy to try something new. The other acted more laid back but when he wanted something, he got it done. I spent a week with the puppies, made my final pick, and then helped the breeder place the other one in a good sport/training home. I would be happy today with that puppy too.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Anyway, going back to the original question:



Jack's Dad said:


> Why is a breeder who picks puppies better than one who lets the buyer pick?


I don't think that this, standing alone, makes one breeder automatically "better" than another.

I think it's analogous to a breeder who health tests their breeding stock, trains and titles their own dogs, and has an established "in house" line of dogs rather than constantly purchasing and selling off unrelated animals. None of these things, taken in isolation, guarantees that the breeder is a good one. It's possible to do any or all of those things and still produce crappy puppies. But _probably_ somebody who is taking the time to do all those things is someone who is genuinely knowledgeable and who really cares about the breed, their lines, and the puppies they're producing.

To me, a breeder who matches puppies to homes (or at least narrows down the litter to a couple of suitable matches and then lets the buyer choose) is _more likely_ to be a breeder who has taken the time to know her puppies (vs. an ignorant or commercial breeder who doesn't care and/or doesn't know enough to discern differences in their traits), who wants each placement to be successful and is trying to maximize the happiness of both dogs and puppy buyers, _and_ who may want to ensure that show/performance/working prospects get a chance to shine.

In short, it's an indicator of someone who knows what they're doing, cares about the happiness of their dogs, and is breeding puppies for a purpose.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Only got through page 1 of this:
I think a serious breeder wants the best pups to go to either a working home or a show home - that's in the interest of the new family, the pup, and the breeder. In a litter the pup that is "best" for a family home may not be the pup that is "best" for a show home or a working home. If a breeder specializes in working dogs, s/he is going to be happy to place a drivey dog in a working home. That same dog could be a bit too much for the family home where it would get minimal training and just hang out.

While I initially had reservations about a breeder choosing, so far he has not missed the mark with me. I'd have probably messed up and taken the wrong pup if the choice had been left to me. With less knowledgable breeder, I took what was available. She turned out to be perfect for me, too. A handful but wonderful. The pound puppy I took home was great, too. 
Heck, all my dogs have been great dogs!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I'll be charging the same price for every puppy, show potential or "just a pet". The dogs are all genetically the same in terms of the pairing.

The only thing that makes one puppy "worth" more than another is how a person feels about it. That's it.

I will be keeping the "pick" puppy from my litter for show and performance. That doesn't mean the puppy is a good match for somebody else, nor does it mean it's not.

The fact of the matter is, you are paying for the overall quality of the litter and the expertise of the breeder. Just because you picked up your puppy last doesn't mean it's the worst puppy. Doesn't mean you got the "leftovers". That is just ridiculous.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Breeders should be asking what perspective buyers are looking for, and since they spend the most time with the pups, they know them best. 

My breeder narrowed it down to 3 for me that she thought were suitable and let me pick from those. When I visited the puppies at 5 weeks of age, half the time they were sleeping, so it was difficult to really get a good feel for their personalities in that short visit.

A lot of people don't know how to choose a puppy either. They think the dog that comes to you first is 'the one'. I would not want one that was shy or uninterested in me, but the one that comes over first, may also be quite bold, and may end up being a stronger dog than the buyer is wanting.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jack's Dad said:


> Your first sentence is one of my concerns. If we are all paying the same, I want the best puppy I can get and I don't want that to mean the best one after those with great potential go to show homes.
> Or in the case of working lines, after the IPO people get theirs.
> Does that make sense to anyone.


A breeder's success and reputation may depend on whether or not their best puppies are shown and trialed, and how they are shown or trialed. A litter is successful that has one super-flyer when it comes to show. Most breeders will keep this pup and show it themselves. To let this one go, they will not just let it go to someone who thinks he might want to get into conformation. Sorry. You're out of luck there. They are going to sell it to someone in their club that they know will campaign and show the dog, and they will give credit to the breeder, put the breeder's kennel name on the dog, use a professional handler, and make sure that dog is at its peak to spend the money and time showing it. 

This pup is probably not going to cost the same as the rest of the litter. It may cost more. It just depends on whether or not the breeder has the time and resources to campaign the dog himself. If not, they will probably sell it for the going rate of a top show-prospect. 

The companion dogs are going to look like GSDs, and they are not going to look flawed. If they have serious faults, they will generally be marked down accordingly. At eight weeks you have no idea if that ear tip is not going to stand properly. At five or six months, you might discount a pup that has ears down. The high flyer show puppy is a complete package, conformation, gait, personality, temperament, etc. And there is just something about them. Giving them to a pet buyer (who will never probably set foot in a ring), is like burying your talent in the earth and waiting for the master to return -- nothing good will come of that.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

My breeder (ASL) had specific pups that she wanted to go to homes that were actively showing and that didn't bother me one bit. I wanted the one that chose to play with a ball instead of his littermates anyway, lol. 

I was curious how you'd be able to predict the future conformation anyway, when they're so young. I did notice that my puppy had a wider rear end than the others, and one was much bolder than the rest, but otherwise they were all perfect little sweeties.


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## HOBY (Aug 12, 2013)

I always took the pup that was interested in me. My latest pup for the first time in my life was chosen by my breeder. After telling her in an interview with pictures of where my new boy would live and what I was interested in doing with my pup, the match up was perfect. Breeder choice worked for me.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i don't have much faith in the breeder picking a pup for me.
> the breeder picks a pup for you. a week later, months later,
> a year later that's not the same pup it was when you got the
> pup at 8 weeks old.


This is true, doggiedad. There is the whole nature vs nurture dynamics.

Our breeder did not pick our puppy for us, although he did pick one male out for a long time customer who was in his 70's, the pup was very sweet, not driven at all like Molly which was perfect due to the owner's age. My daughter picked out our pup, she picked the one that kept coming back to her, making contact. You would think all pups would do this, but Molly's sister had no interest in us. I agree with the first post that by not picking a pup for person does not discredit the breeder in any way.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

blackshep said:


> Breeders should be asking what perspective buyers are looking for, and since they spend the most time with the pups, they know them best.
> 
> My breeder narrowed it down to 3 for me that she thought were suitable and let me pick from those. When I visited the puppies at 5 weeks of age, half the time they were sleeping, so it was difficult to really get a good feel for their personalities in that short visit.
> 
> A lot of people don't know how to choose a puppy either. They think the dog that comes to you first is 'the one'. I would not want one that was shy or uninterested in me, but the one that comes over first, may also be quite bold, and may end up being a stronger dog than the buyer is wanting.


Your breeder's approach sounds very reasonable. Narrowing down the choice but letting you pick.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

If I didn't trust the breeder I'm using/going with to pick the correct pup for me, then why would I use them? 

I'd hope there was a lot of communication between the seller and the buyer, w/the buyer giving their input and being "honest" in what they need and are looking for out of a dog..


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## Mister C (Jan 14, 2014)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I agree.
> 
> PLUS, at this point I'm not actually thinking I'm paying for whatever puppy I get. Because there will always be a bit of a crap shoot as the pup grows up and things may crop up no one could have predicted.
> 
> ...


+1

Very well put and I couldn't agree more. This is what I looked for in a breeder.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> PLUS, at this point I'm not actually thinking I'm paying for whatever puppy I get. Because there will always be a bit of a crap shoot as the pup grows up and things may crop up no one could have predicted.
> 
> So my MONEY is actually going to the breeder to support a breeding program I agree with. This means I need to do MY job and work on finding the best breeder who has goals to keep the breed to a standard I agree with. Health and temperament wise.
> 
> ...


:thumbup: I agree!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Liesje said:


> *I think people often read way too much into this "pick" thing.* The reality is that most of the time, the picking is done by both the breeder and the buyer. I don't just walk in blind and take a puppy home. If I'm not local to the breeder, I spend considerable time explaining or even demonstrating what I want/don't want. So in a way, even a puppy I've never met before the day he comes home was in part "picked" by me. In each case, it gets narrowed down pretty quickly based on color, gender, and/or coat type. After that, the breeder and I work together to pick, whether that's in long distance conversations or in person when available. Most times, I'd probably be happy with any of, say, 3 puppies the breeder thinks shows potential.* When I got Legend, the breeder actually sent me two puppies*. They were both different, but each on possessed qualities I wanted. One was more "busy" and inquisitive, the first puppy to try something new. The other acted more laid back but when he wanted something, he got it done. I spent a week with the puppies, made my final pick, and then helped the breeder place the other one in a good sport/training home. I would be happy today with that puppy too.


Seriously, how many breeders are going to send a client two puppies to chose from? Of course as the stud owner you get a bit of a perk that way, but the normal purchaser is not going to have this as an option. The reality of your situation is far from the norm. 

Picking a puppy vs letting the breeder choose is a big deal, IMO...and those breeders letting a client pick out a pup that the breeder hardly has a relationship with is not doing right by their pups. 

Setting the puppy up for success should be the breeders main goal, and that usually is done thru proper screening and placement, getting to know the buyers of what they are producing.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> Picking a puppy vs letting the breeder choose is a big deal, IMO...and those breeders letting a client pick out a pup that the breeder hardly has a relationship with is not doing right by their pups.
> 
> Setting the puppy up for success should be the breeders main goal, and that usually is done thru proper screening and placement, getting to know the buyers of what they are producing.


:thumbup:


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

I don't believe the breeder picking the puppy is a reason to believe a breeder is reputable. It could very well be a BYB mindset to mimic what they have seen other breeders do. That being said, when we got Alvin our main concern was temperament then color preference. (Therapy prospect and we had always wanted a solid black working line) sex made no difference but we just said male to start and if none of the pups fit the bill then we would look at the females or possibly another litter. After temperament testing at 54 days the chunker with the slightly undershot jaw ended up being our boy (she informed us of his bite beforehand). I had no problem letting her pick our pup, I have some knowledge on selecting temperament and I would have chosen him myself. Middle of the pack, happy go lucky, not timid with the right amount of play drive  

We drove 10 hours to tour her little farm and meet all of her dogs when the pups were 3 weeks old. That really is the only way to know for sure the type of breeder your dealing with, unless you get a referral from a trusted friend or something similar. 




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## DonnaKay (Jan 20, 2014)

I picked mine, or should I say she picked me. Out of a litter of 8 (6 males and 2 females), there were 6 left. 

Mystique had her eyes on me as soon as I walked in and never let me out of her sight the whole visit. When I picked her up I was immediately covered in puppy kisses. :wub:

She was the runt of the litter but didn't take any gruff from the other pups. She gave as good as she got while playing with them. After playing a few moments, she'd run back to me for more kisses. After discussing the traits of all the pups with the breeder, it was an easy choice. My little runt is confident (not at all afraid of new situations), smart and lovable. 

Worked great for me!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

madis said:


> I had no problem letting her pick our pup, I have some knowledge on selecting temperament and I would have chosen him myself. Middle of the pack, happy go lucky, not timid with the right amount of play drive


The problem with this is that you would have chosen that puppy based on how he acted that particular day. He may act differently every other day and that is why it's important for the breeder to choose the right puppy for the right home. The breeder has spent time with the puppies since they were born, they know their puppies best.


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

LaRen616 said:


> The problem with this is that you would have chosen that puppy based on how he acted that particular day. He may act differently every other day and that is why it's important for the breeder to choose the right puppy for the right home. The breeder has spent time with the puppies since they were born, they know their puppies best.


I agree completely. My wording suggested that I based his personality on a few encounters. She had full say and would update me on the puppies regularly. IMO the breeder should pick the pups. Alvin has a fantastic temperament 


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

the implication is that a good breeder knows his or her puppies basic temperaments and gives them to families based on those temperaments

a poor or bad breeder doesn't care who gets what regarding temperament as long as they get their money

personally i would anticipate and welcome input regarding which puppy i should get depending on what i wanted to do with it


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

I will be getting my shiloh puppy in 4 weeks and my breeder also decides where to place pups.This is a first for me! I understand the reasoning pretty well I think, but I can't help but feel a bit uneasy about the whole thing. I was fairly specific about gender and coloring preference and that we are fairly flexible with temperament. 
There are 4 sable boys so that narrows it down to four. I am almost nervous to visit because Im afraid of becoming attached to a particular one and then having that pup be set for someone else! I am also nervous of getting one I may have little connection to. I am just feeling unsettled about the whole thing. She is very nice and lives close by and is very highly recommended. I know others with dogs from her who are very pleased also. So, I am sure whichever one comes home wiht us will be just fine. 
I guess I am just nervous about having little say at this point. She decides at about 7 weeks and I wish I could know NOW!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Why be nervous? You should trust your breeder to do right by you....if you feel nervous it is because you aren't trusting the breeder. 
I didn't know which~ or even IF~ I'd be getting a puppy until they were evaluated at 7 weeks. I was on edge from the time I heard of the breeding confirmation until that 7 weeks of age eval...talk about torture! But I did trust that the breeder would make the right match for me, or tell me there wasn't one in this particular breeding.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Jack's Dad said:


> I want the puppy that is the most bold, most curious and goes willingly where angels fear to tread. You think I'll get that one if it's going to be "just" a family companion.


I picked that one, he can be a PITA but he is just my active companion. He was one of two puppies the breeder thought would be a good match but I met most of his litter, did the same things with them and was allowed to pick which one I wanted. 

She didn't tell me which one to take, just which two she recommended. I had the first deposit on the litter but got second pick. First pick was going to K9 training - he was back with the mother when I got there, never saw him other than pictures.

Venus was picked for me based on what I wanted. I got exactly what I asked for. She has a nearly identical sister with a little more edge to her eyes. I still keep up with 4/5th of her litter through FB. They were 7 weeks before the breeder decided which one was Venus and which was going to just as active a home but with no other dog and no children.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I have other types of animals for years even a couple of dogs.. 

1) There are those that contact you and know what they want. They clearly have experience and as such expectations. 
I invite those people over and they pick the one they like.

2) There are those that dont know much but want to learn. I find out what they are looking for then make a recommendation on what they should pick. They almost always agree.

3) Then there are the time wasters. They usually dont know anything but like to pretend they do. They want a million pictures, ask a million pointless questions, and in the end don't buy from you OR if they do want to buy from you are so clearly stupid and clueless that no amount of explanations or education will make them a good fit for the animal.

These I ignore. It takes only a few interactions to figure out who is who.

When I was buying a puppy I contacted various breeders, told them what I wanted and what I was doing with the dog. The breeder I purchased from was willing to let me pick but I told him to do it for me. 
He also knew I would be returning the dog if there were nerve or temperment issues that inhibited performance or workability. No excuses.

BYBs will always exist because ignorance and or willful blindness is a common human condition. Connecting them to puppy selection by breeder as opposed to the buyer is stupid.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee you have hit it out of park....I like you post


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

my boy diesel said:


> the implication is that a good breeder knows his or her puppies basic temperaments and gives them to families based on those temperaments
> 
> a poor or bad breeder doesn't care who gets what regarding temperament as long as they get their money
> 
> personally i would anticipate and welcome input regarding which puppy i should get depending on what i wanted to do with it


:thumbup:


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

Yes Jane I do agree. It just comes down to not having done this before. Picking our own dog ourselves has worked out very well for us, both hubby and I have chosen dogs in our lives and were very happy with our choices. All three we have now we selected. Two from shelters and one from BYB as a pup. We have a pretty good feel for the temp we prefer and how it will fit with our existing dogs. 
I have no doubt that this pup will be wonderful! I cant let go of the thought that if one seems to be "the one" to me, I will be sad if he is selected for the "show home" She always waits til 7 weeks to make official decisions on placement, but said she usually has a pretty good idea by 5 weeks. She has been doing this for a long time and is one of the top breeders for the Shiloh. 
I have gotten to know her pretty well over last couple years, including visiting previous litters at her home so I am fairly certain she wants me to be very happy with our dude. So I guess, I just have difficulty not being in control! But I haven't done this before, so I am wiling to try since I have had so many excellent recommendations.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I have only picked one puppy before. And it was not really picking a puppy, it was evaluating a young adult. I liked her and bought her. 

All my other pups were picked for me. All with wonderful results. If you trust the breeder, and are very honest with what is REALLY important to you, then you should be fine. 

When I bought my last puppy, I spent hours on the phone with the breeder, no exaggeration. I explained my hopes for the dog, what I wanted to do, but it in the end it came down to me saying that " no matter what the dog accomplishes training wise, if he makes it as a USAR dog, or as an IPO dog or not, he will forever be my pet. I take my dogs everywhere, I need a dog that I can do that with." That was me being honest. I want to do IPO, but it's not my life. I want to do USAR, but I already have a certified dog, so again, not a deal breaker. If my situation was different, my needs would be different. Be honest, don't ask for more than you can handle, and be honest about what you can handle, and trust the breeder to make the right match. 


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## Ryanhaus (Dec 9, 2010)

Who gets the bold one and who gets the shy one? Are you told "yours is the shy one".

A GSD puppy should never be "Shy" that would be in my opinion a "Nerve Bag" all pups should be friendly and outgoing. 

I agree with WhiteShepherds, "Good breeders often have waiting lists so they aren't trying to match up 8 dogs with 8 people, they're trying to find 8 homes with 14 owners to choose from."

I have a list with 11 people on it for my next litter, we will see who makes the cut!


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

I skipped a fair bit of this thread so I hope it's still on track.
My breeders work on a most suited system. Not a first in process. 
I told the breeders that I work long hours so but am very out doors when home. So a dog with lots of drive but a good off button who is also independent.
I missed out on 4 litters but all I can say is it was well worth the wait.
The pup I got is perfectly suited.
I am away from 8-6 so only have 4 hours to spend with the boy and somehow he is perfect with that. 

My breeders have had over 60 litters over 40 years of breeding so to think that I'd chooser a better fitted pup will be silly!

They also had 2 meetings with me prior and had me fill out a detailed form asking about my work, family, use for dog, sex, prior pet history etc.

If you don't trust your breeder to pick you a pup the I think you should find another breeder.



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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

To add to my last post. The pup the breeders chose for me was not the one that ran upto me. I must admit I had my heart set on that one. 
It was the one playing with a tug by himself away from the pack. The one who was extremely comfortable by himself and didn't hear a peep out of him. I thought he was a odd little boy at the time but the breeders picked the right boy imo


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Jack's Dad said:


> The idea that a breeder can pick the "right" puppy for ,say, a litter of eight just seems goofy to me.


As a breeder (Chinese Cresteds) I spend the first 8 weeks of their lives being *WITH *my puppies. Watching them, working with them, training them. I see how each one reacts in all the different circumstances I put them in. I know which puppy is more outgoing, which one is more reserved (or shy), which one likes other dogs, which one prefers to be with people and so on.

At 7 weeks I have a friend (local GSD breeder) come evaluate my puppies. We do the Volhard puppy test. This information gets added to what I already know about the puppies.

All this information helps me determine which puppy (or puppies) would be the best fit for each potential buyer.

For example, in my last litter I had a person that really wanted the little brown Powder Puff puppy. She works as a groomer and runs a grooming shop. She wanted to be able to bring the dog to work with her, have it meet and greet all the customers and play with the dogs waiting to be groomed. I knew the Black and White puppy I had would be a much better choice - she was not afraid of anything or any dogs (the brown one was timid around large dogs) and LOVED people (the brown one was ok with people once she got to know them). I told her the brown one would not be a good choice and she could purchase the B&W one. If she had said no she would have left with NO puppy. I refuse to put any of my puppies in a situation where they are bound to fail.

The owner is THRILLED with the dog she has - she is everything they wanted and more. When the door of the grooming shop opens the dog rushes up to say hello to the people and their dog. Every dog loves her, she has the BEST dog manners and knows how to react around all types of dogs. She has 110% confidence and it shows! Many people have contacted me about getting a Crested puppy because of meeting her.

The brown puppy stayed with me because she got injured. When she was healed I asked the owner of the B&W puppy if she knew anyone looking for an older puppy. She said the puppy could come stay with her for awhile and she would show her off to people. Needless to say she decided she wanted to keep her.

But - the owner told me I was right about her temperament. She likes people but is nowhere near as outgoing as her sister. The owner told me she would have been disappointed if she had picked her first.

A RESPONSIBLE breeder KNOWS their puppies. They don't just toss food in the pen and clean the messes. They work with each pup - as a group and one-on-one. They take them new places, introduce them to knew things and watch how they react. They put alot of time into their puppies so they CAN pick the correct home.

Yes, there will be times when a litter has several puppies that are the same and could go to any type of home and the breeder will allow the owners to choose.


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