# Well...this wasn't exactly how I planned things to go...



## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

I'd discussed with my wife about us getting a GSD and she was all for it. I thought I'd made it pretty clear how I wanted to go about getting a pup...but my wife decided she wanted to surprise me this week. Meet Guinness Jakob:










Really needed a bath when we got home...









My hand is not small...he's just got hoof's









Obviously, I've got to work on being the Alpha when it comes to my marriage. A co-worker of my wife knows this amish breeder that's been breeding GSD's for "a while" now and he had a male black & tan born Aug 31st that someone had put a deposit down on but then backed out. When my wife went there, she met the mother who was an absolute sweetheart...very well behaved, great with new people. Guinness is an absolute doll, although (someone confirm here?) quite large for his age, if my scale is right he's about 42lbs. Taking the pup back just isn't an option. 1 - wife is in love with him. 2 - kids are in love with him. 3 - despite my misgivings on how this has come about, I gotta admit I love him already as well. My wife is now clear on why she shouldn't have done it this way, and I'm just going to do everything I can for him to make him the best dog I can. 

I'm calling around today to find his first level of obedience training to start ASAP. I've got a buddy with a GSD out in Ohio that is putting his through Schutzhund training that is really pushing for me to try it as well. I'll admit, I'm not as familiar with it as I'd like to be, but it does sound interesting if I can find somewhere relatively near me to do it. My main goal with Guinness is a well-trained family member with perhaps an element of protection...and then to find out what "job" keeps him interested & motivated.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Congrats! I love bath tub pics because the dogs look like they're in so much pain. Make sure you have the time commitment for Schutzhund if you're going to do it. The protection phase is the last thing you should be thinking about and just enjoy him as a deterrent. If he has what it takes for Schutzhund, then it is something that would be really fun to do depending on how committed you will be and how much time you have.

42 lbs for a 4 month old isn't out of the ordinary. It's large but not huge. I've realized 10 lbs a month for the first 6 or 7 is kind of the standard and then it starts to slow down a bit. Some dogs of course are less and some are more but in general its not the worst rule of thumb.


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## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks for the quick reply! He actually did really well with the bath, I was surprised. As for protection..."protection" in my mind, from a dog, is simply alerting me that something is up so I can deal with the threat. Can you give me an idea of how much time is involved in Schutzhund? I'm glad to hear 42lbs isn't all that abnormal, I was a little worried about that although he seems very strong & healthy & happy. Just scheduled his first vet visit, he goes in Monday morning for an exam and shots.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Awww cute puppy. :wub: It sounds like your wife was just trying to surprise you with something you said you wanted. He is adorable. Enjoy him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Look for clubs in your area and contact them. You should have plenty to choose from in central PA

United Schutzhund Clubs of America - For the German Shepherd Dog


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

Well I know it wasn't what you planned for, but Guiness is sure a cute pup!
Congrats and enjoy


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't do Schutzhund...but its because of the time thing. The closest club to me is about an hour away. So every Sunday I would be driving there an hour and back an hour. On top of that, you're probably going to be there all day because its not just a "train my dog and leave" type of thing. You stay around, learn from more experienced people, help where you can, ect. Then throughout the week you need to work on things at home (not crazy time commitment, but could be if you decide you want to trial and get as many points as possible). Someone else can tell you about the exact time requirements but I've done some tracking work and even a short track takes about 30 minutes to lay down (and imagine doing that on a weekday).

I was extremely interested when I got my dog, but realized I didn't want to or have the time to commit to this. It does become a hobby and I applaud the people that do it. I have my own hobbies that at this point in my life are a little more important to me than Schutzhund, and at the end of the day that is probably what keeps me from doing it (I like my 18 holes on a Sunday).

The closer the training area is to your home, the better though. But make sure you get a lot of references on the instructors and the helpers. I've heard from more than a few people that there are some you want to work with, and other you shouldn't even let look at your dog.


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## Switchblade906 (May 5, 2012)

I think your pup is very cute. What was your issue with her getting one for you?


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Several times in my life, I've had the experience that the "right" dog has a way of finding me, even if I was initially _sure_ it wasn't a dog I wanted at the time...as the reason it came into my life unfolds, I realize what a special blessing it was that it did--and that it _had _to be _this _dog and no other. I have a feeling that will happen with you and Guinness.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Your wife did wrong. You certainly should have had a say over your choice of pup. And from the Amish? I hope she has learned her lesson.

That said....Kudos to you for loving this boy anyway. Sometimes we don't get what we want, but we get what we need. Sounds like Guinness has found a wonderful home. Wishing all of you many happy years together.


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## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

Switchblade906 said:


> I think your pup is very cute. What was your issue with her getting one for you?


I think some of my biggest issues were that 1 - I wanted to pick the dog and 2 - I was worried after everything I'd heard on here about back-yard breeders, which is basically where Guinness came from. I guess I just had all those warnings stuck in my head. I gotta say, I really appreciate all the positive responses I've gotten...thank you guys very much. Just to make sure I'm being clear...it's not like I yelled at my wife or anything, we had a really good talk about it all and she understood my concerns. 

Personality wise...she couldn't have done any better. He does have some anxiety issues today, but I think that's normal. Last night was the first time he'd worn a collar or had a leash on. He does get anxious so far on it, but I'm already seeing great improvement just over the last few hours so that's a great thing. We just got back from taking my step-daughter to work, and he did great riding in the back of the Jeep. Last night, he did get sick on the car-ride home, but it was his first time in a car and it was a 90 minute drive, so that's certainly not his fault. As anxious as he was in his crate last night (even with me sleeping, sorta, on the couch beside him), he just went in there to lay down so I think he's starting to accept that too. I'm so excited to see how quickly he grows and learns.


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## Switchblade906 (May 5, 2012)

Well im sure that you and your new pup will have a really strong relationship together. This is most likely not the last dog you will ever own so next time you will get to pick it out. The great thing about German Shepherds is that they will do anything for you and they don't have to be AKC perfect to be YOUR perfect dog.


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## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

True...and really, the more time I spend with him, the less I care about not picking him out. He really is a sweet-heart and I think we're bonding very well already.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Congrats on the new family addition. Yeah, it was the perfect situation but it seems to be working out for the best. 

He is very handsome and I love the name.

As for the "element of protection", just being a GSD will be a good deterrent to most wrongdoers.

And good for you on finding out what Guinness likes and doing that!!


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## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

Funny thing about the name...I've always wanted a GSD, and I'd decided probably 5 years ago that when I do finally get mine, I was going to name him Guinness (yes, I'm obviously a fan of the beer). I dunno how many people have named there dog that far in advance of getting them His middle name, Jakob, just seemed appropriate since he's Amish LOL. Right now, all he's interested in is the back of his eyelids  Here's a few more pics...

Meeting my son for the first time last night:









Not too sure about the noisy thing being shoved in his face:









More nap time:


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

He's a really nice pup. Nice bone, nice ears, handsome head. I think your wife did fine. I'm a believer in the whole family making the decisions, but this one seems to have turned out well. Sounds like he has a good start at socialization. Now it's up to you and your wife to make him the perfect dog. Enjoy!


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

Stunningly handsome dog. How does he do around strangers, kids? My only concern would be that he wasn't socialized sufficiently, or that your wife didn't get the full story and he was returned to the Amish because of problems in a former home. If he is steady nerved and outgoing it sounds like your wife picked a great one!


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

It may not have been ideal,but it looks like you have yourself a great pup so far.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Very nice looking pup! I don't have any advice on Schutzhund (my beautiful girl is most likely backyard bred, and just doesn't have the nerves for it), but I will say that these wonderful dogs will generally like anything that works that big brain. Sasha and I have a blast doing obedience work (not usually through classes, though the one 8 week class we went to was a lot of fun for both of us), so if your boy can't do schutzhund, or if you just decide it isn't for you, there are so many fun things you can do with him that are just as good. Again, cute pup!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

He's adorable :wub:
But his eye, the right one, seems really red! What's up with that? Allergies?


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## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

billsharp said:


> Stunningly handsome dog. How does he do around strangers, kids? My only concern would be that he wasn't socialized sufficiently, or that your wife didn't get the full story and he was returned to the Amish because of problems in a former home. If he is steady nerved and outgoing it sounds like your wife picked a great one!


Well, we had to stop at Petsmart last night to get a collar, leash & food. He had two young kids come galloping up to him and he just loved it. Tail was wagging and he covered them with kisses. He was a little less enthusiastic about the adults, but didn't shy away from them either. Socialization is a big concern for me, so he'll be slowly introduced to as many different people and dogs as possible, as safely as possible. I'm a pretty social person, have folks over to the house all the time, so it's important to me that Guinness be comfortable with this.





NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Very nice looking pup! I don't have any advice on Schutzhund (my beautiful girl is most likely backyard bred, and just doesn't have the nerves for it), but I will say that these wonderful dogs will generally like anything that works that big brain. Sasha and I have a blast doing obedience work (not usually through classes, though the one 8 week class we went to was a lot of fun for both of us), so if your boy can't do schutzhund, or if you just decide it isn't for you, there are so many fun things you can do with him that are just as good. Again, cute pup!


Thanks for that...very good points applicable to my situation. I won't be disappointed if schutzhund isn't for him...but if it's something that he'd do well with and really enjoy, then it's worth looking into. If he's happy just doing obedience, playing, and being a family dog, then I'm ok with that too  


msvette2u said:


> He's adorable :wub:
> But his eye, the right one, seems really red! What's up with that? Allergies?


I think it was just from being so tired (he was used to bedtime being 8pm or so and that was late last night). Today his eyes are clear with no red at all.

Thanks again for all the great advice, very much appreciated!


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

I love your pup. He's super cute. I had a similar situation in getting mine. I had been telling hubby that we couldn't afford a dog, and for months he kept saying he wanted one. He went ahead against my will and got Rocco "for me" for Christmas last year. Needless to say, Rocco is the love of my life. I'm sure yours will be too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Magwart said:


> Several times in my life, I've had the experience that the "right" dog has a way of finding me, even if I was initially _sure_ it wasn't a dog I wanted at the time...as the reason it came into my life unfolds, I realize what a special blessing it was that it did--and that it _had _to be _this _dog and no other. I have a feeling that will happen with you and Guinness.


 
*I agree with the above... *




Stevenzachsmom said:


> Your wife did wrong. You certainly should have had a say over your choice of pup. And from the Amish? I hope she has learned her lesson.
> 
> That said....Kudos to you for loving this boy anyway. Sometimes we don't get what we want, but we get what we need. Sounds like Guinness has found a wonderful home. Wishing all of you many happy years together.


 
*I also agree with Jan. As sweet as it was for your wife to clearly want to get you the pup, she should have included you in the decision. I do believe this pup came into your life at the right time and for a reason. He's a pretty thick boned boy from that first picture! My husband just agreeing to letting me get my exact desired pup in the future will be surprise enough for me. If he ever came home with my next pup without a warning... I might slug him and then start loving on the puppy. lol. I wish you the best with your new landshark and cant wait to see more pictures, especially as he grows!*


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

This is by far one of the most adorable pictures. This is totally frame worthy.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

He is beautiful. There are three of us in my family. I found mine and 2 of us jumped in the car to see her. The 3rd one figured out what we were doing, because I didn't exit out on the internet. We get there, we see her, and she is very attached to the woman. The person with me is ready to walk away, so we could discuss it...I felt that a conversation wasn't needed and 1 year later I couldn't be happier. Enjoy your dog, you will find that the more you put into him, the happier everyone will be.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Congrats on your new pup! You need to change your signature now!
My husband got Onyx much the same way Guinness came to you. Had I known, I never would have chosen the breeder he supported, but she made me learn so much about behavior and training.
The second pic of your pup lying down....his eye looks really red, is it just the shot or is there some irritation going on?










> *I don't do Schutzhund*...but its because of the time thing*. The closest club to me is about an hour away. So every Sunday I would be driving there an hour and back an hour*. On top of that, you're probably going to be there all day because its not just a "train my dog and leave" type of thing. You stay around, learn from more experienced people, help where you can, ect. Then throughout the week you need to work on things at home (not crazy time commitment, but could be if you decide you want to trial and get as many points as possible). Someone else can tell you about the exact time requirements but I've done some tracking work and even a short track takes about 30 minutes to lay down (and imagine doing that on a weekday).
> 
> I was extremely interested when I got my dog, but realized I didn't want to or have the time to commit to this. It does become a hobby and I applaud the people that do it. I have my own hobbies that at this point in my life are a little more important to me than Schutzhund, and at the end of the day that is probably what keeps me from doing it (I like my 18 holes on a Sunday).
> 
> *The closer the training area is to your home, the better though*. But make sure you get a lot of references on the instructors and the helpers. I've heard from more than a few people that there are some you want to work with, and other you shouldn't even let look at your dog.


Most clubs are at least an hour drive...you luck out if you don't have to travel far! I personally could go to a club 45 minutes away, but don't want bad training! No training is better than bad, and I agree, make sure who you train with is not going to create problems that will be harder to fix. 
So I travel almost 2 hours for better training, which in the past year, we've had to fix some problems that I caused early on with the more "local" group.


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## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

KZoppa said:


> *I agree with the above... *
> 
> *I also agree with Jan. As sweet as it was for your wife to clearly want to get you the pup, she should have included you in the decision. I do believe this pup came into your life at the right time and for a reason. He's a pretty thick boned boy from that first picture! My husband just agreeing to letting me get my exact desired pup in the future will be surprise enough for me. If he ever came home with my next pup without a warning... I might slug him and then start loving on the puppy. lol. I wish you the best with your new landshark and cant wait to see more pictures, especially as he grows!*


Yeah. I gotta admit, between spending all day with Guinness, and all the positive comments here, I really feel much better about how we got him. It's definitely a learning experience for sure!



KZoppa said:


> This is by far one of the most adorable pictures. This is totally frame worthy.


Yeah...these two are getting along great. My son is 9, and his & his mom's (my ex-wife) Golden Retriever, Lucy, had to be put down earlier this year due to cancer. He really misses Lucy, so this is a huge and positive thing for him.



llombardo said:


> He is beautiful. There are three of us in my family. I found mine and 2 of us jumped in the car to see her. The 3rd one figured out what we were doing, because I didn't exit out on the internet. We get there, we see her, and she is very attached to the woman. The person with me is ready to walk away, so we could discuss it...I felt that a conversation wasn't needed and 1 year later I couldn't be happier. Enjoy your dog, you will find that the more you put into him, the happier everyone will be.


I think everyone's right...maybe this was just fate/karma/etc.



onyx'girl said:


> Congrats on your new pup! You need to change your signature now!
> My husband got Onyx much the same way Guinness came to you. Had I known, I never would have chosen the breeder he supported, but she made me learn so much about behavior and training.
> The second pic of your pup lying down....his eye looks really red, is it just the shot or is there some irritation going on?
> 
> ...


I think it was mostly a result of having such a long & traumatizing day yesterday. I don't see any sign of it today at all. You're right...sig change is next LOL. I'm going to look into this club that's only 10 minutes away. If it checks out and has good referrals, then it'll at least be worth looking into. 

Today has been such a huge success for Guinness. 4 walks, each getting progressively better on the leash. Meeting a LOT of new people and a few dogs, each time doing so in a very friendly manner with very little anxiety. A few rides in the Jeep, including a 45minute (each way) ride to PetsMart for a bed, then hanging out in front of a grocery store with my wife meeting people while my son & I got groceries. 2 success's with going potty outside. The amount of progress I've seen in him in such a short time has been just amazing. I can't wait to see what tomorrow brings! Hopefully, all this excitement will lead to a good sleep tonight, since he only let me get about 3.5hrs of sleep last night 

TLDR version: Guinness had a great day with lots of progress!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Lucky you...10 minutes away!! If it is warrior k9, you are luckier!! LOL... Whatever/where-ever wishing you a good one and Guinness's Jakob has a great future with his new family


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## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

Actually, it's OG Keystone Schutzhund Club in Millerstown, PA. Maybe someone on here will know something about them...


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## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

Don't know anything about the clubs but he is a sweet looking boy! Cody was the last pup left and was my soulmate and heart for over 11 years! Destiny!


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

Good looking Pup! I understand your frustration with not being able to pick the pup but at least it appears she did an excellent job lol. I wouldn't Worry about the weight as all dogs grow at different rates. Mine was 45lbs last week (17weeks) and he's not what I would consider fat at all. Just curious, have you gotten in touch with Joe? I tried emailing him but haven't heard back yet...I'm located in Carlisle.


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## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

Yeah, his weight hasn't really grown much in the two weeks, maybe he was just on a growth spurt? lol I did send an email to Joe, hadn't heard back at all though. I dunno if that's going to be a good route to go with Guinness in any case. Last week we had him in to the vets for an exam and shots and found out he has a heart arrhythmia. The vet isn't sure yet how bad or anything and said it could very well be something he grows out of, but is suggesting a round of EKG/blood tests/etc. Returning the dog to the breeder simply isn't an option, my whole family (including myself) has fallen for this dog and we've decided that we'll just have to help him deal with this and give him the best care we can. He's a happy dog, energetic, playful, and doing very well with other people/dogs and is learning well. Hopefully the tests will tell us more about what's going on.


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## Espo4442 (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear that. Really is the luck of the draw with Amish breeders, and unfortunately even if you did return him he would most likely not be given great care if any at all. Hopefully it's something he grows out of, really is a good looking pup.


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## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

Yeah. It serves as a good lesson. If I returned him, I'm sure they would either re-adopt him out or just put him down. It wouldn't teach the breeder a thing, it wouldn't change anything other than losing a very sweet dog that my family loves. For now, I feed him well (Blue Buffalo), exercise him all he wants, work with him on obedience training, and we love him to death. Hopefully he'll grow out of it, or at the least not be held back too much by it. He's going to have some excitement pretty soon, we're moving to a new house (only 5 blocks away, and he's already been through the house a few times LOL) next weekend that'll have more room for him and a bigger yard as well.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sorry to hear that your pup has a medical issue...hopefully it can be treated and he can be maintained on meds....perhaps that is why he is with you, because you can make the commitment to maintain his health....but that is also the biggest reason to avoid BYB/Puppy mills......and the Amish are not noted for being responsible, concerned breeders...I hope that Guinness has a long and happy life with you!



IPO/Schutzhund is a sport that can be very competitive and even many dogs whose paperwork is full of Sch3 ancestors are often not suitable for competition, or while the dog can be titled with tons and tons of work and only on club fields, it is a learning experience for those whose interest is piqued and want to get another dog.....many of these dogs still enjoy doing obedience and tracking and fulfill their need to "have a job"... The club you mention is one whose members are sucessful in the sport, and if you want to pursue some obedience work, I think the Training Director does give lessons...he is accomplished and from what I know, a good guy!

Lee


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## CRider (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback Lee, and especially the information on the club, much appreciated!

Chris


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

I hope your puppy will be ok, he's handsome fellow  Sounds like he's settling in well already too 
You can get health issues in puppies from registered breeders as well, and yeah you have health guarantee and can give them back - but even then not many people will do that once they are attached to the puppy!



Stevenzachsmom said:


> Your wife did wrong. You certainly should have had a say over your choice of pup. And from the Amish? I hope she has learned her lesson.


That's pretty harsh, especially the "learnt her lesson" comment 

Yeah his wife made a mistake, it happens. 
Yes they should have gone and picked a puppy together but I think if his wife read the above comment she'd be very hurt and upset.

The dog had already been bred, it was in need of a home and she decided to give him one. Is that so much different from getting a dog from a dog rescue where this dog (and so many other BYB dogs) likely would have ended up anyway?
Backyarders will ALWAYS breed and make money off selling pups if they sell them for a few $100 instead of a few $1000 like "reputable" breeders charge.
To most people that want a pet dog it doesn't matter if that dog has papers or not (often they don't understand about the health issues, they just think it's papers they are paying for)- "it's cheap, it's a (insert breed), it'll do". 
I think the only way you would ever stamp out BYBs is by the "proper" breeders selling pups for the same price as a BYB would. (Which I realise is unrealistic due to the cost of "proper" breeding)

To the OP - the main thing is that you don't use this dog for breeding  Give him a good life, neuter him, work him and love him


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

forget about being Alpha when it comes to your marriage.
we're not Alpha in a marriage. if you think your Alpha in a
marriage you're not. forget about being Alpha when it
comes to your dog. you train him, socialize him, love
him, spent a lot time with him, care for him and everything
is going to be find. make sure you and your wife take care 
of your dog equally concerning all aspects of the dog.
nice looking pup. good luck. (dogs have paws not hooves and
the front paws are larger).


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

He is gorgeous!! It sounds like it was just fate that he ended up with you. I am very sorry to hear about the heart arrhythmia. Hopefully it is something he will just outgrow or can be easily maintained on meds.


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