# A serious cry for help



## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

I know this may sound silly or minor or my fault but ive tried everything i could. Kai can NOT walk on the lead properly. He pulls all directions, pulls at people (children and they get scared). This isnt an aggressive mannor but just wants to say hi.

On to what i have done. I took kai to puppy classes mainly for leash training and to meet other dogs. It made no effect on kai walking on the lead even after doing what they told me to. Ive watched countless videos on leash training. (when he pulls, walk the other way..reward the good walking ignore the bad). Ive being doing this for the past 3 months and ive seen no difference. 

Im started to get frustrated on walks now because im not enjoying them. He pulls so much that i hear him wheezing. I do not enjoy the walks and i dont think he does. At the time i cannot afford a 1 - 1 traininer as in london they are stupidly overpriced (£90-£150 ph!!)

Please im in need of help, im in need of honet responces thanks so much in advance


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

How old is Kai?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

from past posts I'm getting he was 6 months old on the 5th.


How much exercise is he getting? I am talking running around exercise? I would burn off some of that energy before you take him for a walk and then walk him.

What kind of collar are you using? I know prongs are illegal over there (I think), how about a martingale? 

I also read in one of your past posts Kai has been pooing in the house? it sounds like he needs more OUTSIDE time, and more exercise ..

When I have a yanking dog, I usually do this, put the dog in the position you want, start to walk, if he pulls, immediately change directions, SAY NOTHING< change directions, if he pulls again, CHANGE DIRECTIONS,,when the dog is IN the position you want, PRAISE & TREAT, otherwise say nothing..

Yes you might get dizzy from changing directions, you want to work on this with NO distractions, later lead up to distractions. 

Work on it a few times a day, short sequences, when he doesn't pull reward/treat, and always end on a positive note


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Have you tried the silky leash method? Leash Walking Ahimsa Dog Blog

I use a nice martingale harness for fosters who pull. It gives me more of a horse feel and I like that, the leash is more like reins to me and I can use finger control to communicate down the leash.


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## Jrnabors (Sep 7, 2012)

To be honest if I couldn't use a prong collar or E-collar I wouldn't be able to have mine. If it is a high strung dog like I have, I'm not sure how you get them under control, because if they are as hyper as mine it is hard to "catch them being good" to reward them, with no effective means of correction.


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> How old is Kai?


hes just turned 7 months old, sorry forgot to add that


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

Jrnabors said:


> To be honest if I couldn't use a prong collar or E-collar I wouldn't be able to have mine. If it is a high strung dog like I have, I'm not sure how you get them under control, because if they are as hyper as mine it is hard to "catch them being good" to reward them, with no effective means of correction.


That sounds like kai,the end of the walk when hes tired is the only calm bit that i enjoy. Which collar did you prefer? or are they just the same


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Have you tried the silky leash method? Leash Walking Ahimsa Dog Blog
> 
> I use a nice martingale harness for fosters who pull. It gives me more of a horse feel and I like that, the leash is more like reins to me and I can use finger control to communicate down the leash.


i cant seem to find a martingale harness for sale in the uk?


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## BMWHillbilly (Oct 18, 2012)

My lab is a puller so I opted to go with the _Freedom No Pull Harness_. Made all the difference in the world and he is 115lb of pure muscle. With that said, I will also start Jazzy with a harness. I have better control and eliminates the wheezing from when they pull to hard with a collar.


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

dylano said:


> i cant seem to find a martingale harness for sale in the uk?


I highly reccomend a front ring harness. It instantly stops the pulling without damaging your dogs neck. Here's a link to a front ring harness on amazon.com in the UK:
Non Pull Harness PREMIER Easy Walk Dog Harness LARGE RED: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

This is not the brand I use, but I couldn't find the one I use on the Amazon Uk site.

A prong collar would also work (depending on your pups age), but I would try this first.
Good luck


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Jazz is a puller as well. I tried to no avail to train him to walk properly but nothing seemed to work. I use a prong which helps a lot. it's really helpful if I let him run off leash initially before putting him on leash. He tends to walk well on leash after that. I'm not sure if you have that option though. I'm lucky because I have a field nearby where I let him run.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

The Canny Collar - The Best Collar to Stop Dogs Pulling on the Lead

Go get one of these. It works out perfectly as they are in the UK.



dylano said:


> I know this may sound silly or minor or my fault but ive tried everything i could. Kai can NOT walk on the lead properly. He pulls all directions, pulls at people (children and they get scared). This isnt an aggressive mannor but just wants to say hi.
> 
> On to what i have done. I took kai to puppy classes mainly for leash training and to meet other dogs. It made no effect on kai walking on the lead even after doing what they told me to. Ive watched countless videos on leash training. (when he pulls, walk the other way..reward the good walking ignore the bad). Ive being doing this for the past 3 months and ive seen no difference.
> 
> ...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

how connected is the dog to you?

it is not about equipment but the relationship .

when I start my dogs on leash I use a jewellery fine or lightest , smallest links chain slip lead , and the lightest show-lead type leash . 

one of the dogs , "Joker" was trained by my son with a rather long hockey skate lace , while the adults were digging post holes for the horse paddocks. 

I would make every position outside of the desireable correct one uncomfortable - the dog, like water, will quickly pick the path of least resistance - the easy (right) one.


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> from past posts I'm getting he was 6 months old on the 5th.
> 
> 
> How much exercise is he getting? I am talking running around exercise? I would burn off some of that energy before you take him for a walk and then walk him.
> ...


Kai's 7 months old. Prong collars can not be bought here from a normal pet shop. He has a regular flat collar. Kai used to be able to run around in our garden but due to the weather there is about 3/4 of a foot of mud so he gets all muddy while eating the mud. I've started doing the change direction thing today 
Thanks for your input


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> The Canny Collar - The Best Collar to Stop Dogs Pulling on the Lead
> 
> Go get one of these. It works out perfectly as they are in the UK.


Sorry get one of what?


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Click on the link...


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

A prong collar, head halter (Halti or similar), or easy-walk harness (the type that clips to the leash in the front) are equipment that will make your walks a lot easier. I think you said that prong collars are not availble to you, so I'd try the harness or Halti first. Be sure he is getting enough exercise, you could try wearing him out a little bit before his walk by playing fetch, tug, or flirt pole.

At 7 months old, he sounds pretty typical... it can be frustrating at this stage, but keep walking! Does he have a favorite toy? You can try taking that along, to get his attention and focus on YOU instead of everything else.

Here's one way to look at it... you have a friendly, outgoing, confident pup, and that is a GOOD thing!


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

I agree with Freestep. You need to try and tire your pup out a little before walking and that will make your walks a little more manageable. As I suggested in a couple of posts below try the front clip harness, it really does the job and will make your walks soo much easier.
Since it's too muddy to talk him in the garden then do some basic obedience with him in the house or play games like "find it" or "Hide and go seek" with him before your walks.
I also made a mini flirt pole for my pup and a few minutes with that and he gets rid of the excess energy that he definitely has.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Have you tried the silky leash method? Leash Walking Ahimsa Dog Blog


Did you click on Jean's link? I didn't start seriously working on leash skills with Halo until she was 7 months old, and I used the Silky Leash method as well as the other loose leash walking methods on that page, and a plain flat collar. It is NOT an easy fix, and you have to be wiling to spend more time training than actually "going for a walk", but if you're committed and persistent, it will work. 

You start training indoors, in a boring low distraction location. If you watch the videos, she actually starts training in a bathroom! The goal is to teach the dog to yield to gentle pressure from the leash, making it a cue for the dog to move in that direction, relieving the pressure. It's the opposite of what your dog is doing now, which is pulling against pressure of the collar against his neck. You want to train this new response BEFORE you get out into the big wide world with all the interesting, exciting things to see and smell. If you need to be able to take your dog for a walk too, front hook harnesses work well. Traditional harnesses with the leash connection on the back of the dog will only encourage pulling, so I wouldn't recommend that. 

The other things I did once we started going for walks were #2 - rewarding for eye contact, #3 - rewarding for the sweet spot, and #4 - the Canine Cha-Cha. #9 is very important too: 



> Set your dog up for success. For all of the above techniques, work in situations where your dog will be successful. If you take him out to train and he is just a basket-case, pulling every which way, he is not going to learn, and you will just become frustrated. Believe me, I’ve been there!! Back up a step or two — work at home, inside, with only a few distractions. Then work in the yard. Next, work in front of the house. Make your training walks longer and longer. Avoid distractions that your dog is not ready for: if you can make it to the park, but not through it, for example, bring along one of the management tools below for the currently-impossible stage of walking nicely through the park.


Before all this, I did do some work with Halo off leash, in the house and also the dog run outside. I always teach hand targeting as a foundation skill when I bring home a new puppy, so it's easy to use that to get them to follow along at your side, turning when you do, etc. I taught her (again, off leash at home) to sit automatically whenever I stopped, by luring her to walk next to me and then bringing the treat up in front of her nose so her butt dropped down. 

Another thing I did was something I think I heard about from Ian Dunbar - the wedding march. You take just one step at a time, stop and sit (the dog, obviously!), then one more step, stop and sit, over and over again. Lure with food, if necessary. I did this on and off leash around the house and in the dog run outside. There's no point in the dog pulling if you're going to stop after every step. If we were working off leash and she got ahead of me, I'd stand there and pat my leg, encouraging her to come back to position, and then we'd try again, taking one step forward. You can gradually add steps - 2 steps, stop and sit 3 steps, stop and sit, etc, once he's automatically stopping and sitting every time you stop. 

I did lots of turns, so she learned to pay attention to what I was doing and follow along. Right turns I lured with a treat, for left turns I stepped in front of her and quickly turned, so she would run into my leg if she didn't pivot. I said "turn" right before I did that, and eventually she learned to turn as soon as she heard the cue, so she wouldn't bump into me. Many times we'd just stand in one place and do circles in each direction, 1/4 turn at a time.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

What else is the pup doing besides walking? What kind of off leash time is he getting? Does he ever really get to burn off some of that energy outside of just walking?


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I feel your pain!

My pup is almost 7 months old and leash respect has been one of our biggest challenges. I am able to use a prong, which helps tremendously, and although neither my dog nor I like it, the Gentle Leader is also quite effective if you use it carefully and watch for rubs.

I don't want to rely on the prong, so what I've been doing is I stop and tell my puppy "with me". We don't move forward until she comes back to my side. It's not a full heel, but it's at my side and not pulling. At times it all goes out the window when she's excited, it's tough. But I do think I'm seeing some improvements with this technique.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

This method of shaping a loose leash walk also works very well: Foundations For Life Training: SHAPING POLITE WALKING with a HIGH RATE OF REINFORCEMENT

I did some of this with Halo, but I skipped to Part 2. 






At around the 2:30 mark she demonstrates step #7, which is where she takes several steps backwards with the dog moving towards her, and then quickly pivots so that the dog is at her side in heel position. At first she stops and rewards in that position and then steps backwards again, but eventually you would work up to taking a few steps forwards in heel position before rewarding. You can see that the dog remains very engaged with the handler during training. And it's a German shepherd! 

Part 3:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

blackshep said:


> I feel your pain!
> 
> My pup is almost 7 months old and leash respect has been one of our biggest challenges. I am able to use a prong, which helps tremendously, and although neither my dog nor I like it, the Gentle Leader is also quite effective if you use it carefully and watch for rubs.
> 
> I don't want to rely on the prong, so what I've been doing is I stop and tell my puppy "with me". We don't move forward until she comes back to my side. It's not a full heel, but it's at my side and not pulling. At times it all goes out the window when she's excited, it's tough. But I do think I'm seeing some improvements with this technique.


Check out my posts above and below yours - I do have prong collars, but I taught Halo LLW with a flat nylon collar at 7 months old. It took time and persistence, but we get compliments all the time now, and people will stop me and ask how I got her to walk so nicely with me. I had my sister shoot a short video during one of our evening walks at the lake:






It's just a few seconds long, but you can see she's right with me, and looks up at me occasionally. When I first took her out there, the next step after working on LLW at every strip mall in town, it took at least 20 minutes to walk the half block from the car to the entrance of the park. We walked back and forth over the same ground over and over again until she stopped trying to pull forward and sniff everything, but I kept taking her out there, 3 or 4 miles at a time, several days a week after work. 

There are TONS of distractions - it's a very popular park, and we see joggers, peoples on bikes and skateboards, families with toddlers and babies in strollers, people carrying fishing poles and gear, and lots of people walking dogs. It was a lot of work at first, but now she walks with me practically perfectly, and we've done hikes there as long as 8 or 9 miles. 

After I trained her (really, the first dog I've _ever_ had walk so nicely on leash), I went back and spent time working with Keefer too, who was already 4 years old by then, when Halo went into heat and was on house arrest for a month. I still can't walk both of them together, but I've spent lots of peaceful hours with one or the other of them walking at that beautiful park for the past few years.


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

Bear GSD said:


> I agree with Freestep. You need to try and tire your pup out a little before walking and that will make your walks a little more manageable. As I suggested in a couple of posts below try the front clip harness, it really does the job and will make your walks soo much easier.
> Since it's too muddy to talk him in the garden then do some basic obedience with him in the house or play games like "find it" or "Hide and go seek" with him before your walks.
> I also made a mini flirt pole for my pup and a few minutes with that and he gets rid of the excess energy that he definitely has.


Im going to go this weekend and look for the harness that you mentioned. 
The idea of tiring him out sounds quite good and i deffo will use that on my next walk with him


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

Lucy Dog said:


> What else is the pup doing besides walking? What kind of off leash time is he getting? Does he ever really get to burn off some of that energy outside of just walking?


He used to love running around in the garden, but its too muddy at the moment so he cannot do that. I play fetch with him indoors and i also give him a kong every other day. When im working late or the weekends i take him to the tennis courts and let him run around there as its not muddy (hes still on a long lead)


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Thanks CM, I'll try that approach too! She is getting better, she's just so excitable it's hard to get her to focus and calm down.

Do you find the backpack helps? I bought one, but haven't used it yet!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I think the backpack helps some, but I didn't get it until she was over a year old, and she wore it empty for a couple of months. I don't think I put anything in it until she was a year and a half. I already had one for Keefer, and he tends to be a bit leash reactive, so it makes more of a difference for him, having a "job". He LOVES his backpack! She doesn't like hers much, she does evasive action around the house when I pull it out of the cabinet, and then pouts when she has it on but it doesn't bother her once we're out walking. We need a lot of water if we're out for a couple of hours on a hot day, so it's nice to be able to have the dog carry it!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

blackshep said:


> She is getting better, she's just so excitable it's hard to get her to focus and calm down.


Halo was too. I just taught her that being calm and focusing was what worked, and that the opposite did not work. That takes a lot of patience, but it's totally doable if you're willing to work at it. Just immediately stop if she's going nutty and wait her out. The second she calms down and looks at you, praise, and continue what you were doing. The better your timing and the more dramatic you are, the clearer it will be that HER actions drive YOUR behavior, and the faster she'll get it.


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

This is what im doing at the moment. 

When we are on walks every time he pulls i change direction and when hes walking good i give him treats. When i have days off im going to go to the tennis courts and walk him round there doing the same thing. There are minor distractions there. 

Is this okay? i dont want to be doing something that doesnt work.

the walk we just went on was ok for the beggining but got so frustrating towards the end. i was REALLY frustrated (breaking point). 

If i dont see a difference then i will have to go see a trainer. Is there any more i could do? i was told not to use a head collar or a ani pull harness when im training him not to pull - just to walk him with ease if i didnt have time


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Did you read the links that Jean and I posted? Did you watch the videos? They work!


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Did you read the links that Jean and I posted? Did you watch the videos? They work!


 Yea thanks but i only understand the first 4 properly :blush:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have.


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## Walperstyle (Nov 20, 2012)

For me I might have the same problem. As cookie gets older he starts to pull a little. At first he walked beside me or behind. He understood I was the boss. Now its kinda a little half and half. Some times he leads, but other times he lets me lead. When get gets to be 8 months old I might have a problem on my hands. 

I reward good behavior though. I actually have had him off leash at 4 months old, and he usually finds his way back home by himself, but doesn't run more then 20 feet infront of me without stopping to see if I'm coming.


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

Walperstyle said:


> For me I might have the same problem. As cookie gets older he starts to pull a little. At first he walked beside me or behind. He understood I was the boss. Now its kinda a little half and half. Some times he leads, but other times he lets me lead. When get gets to be 8 months old I might have a problem on my hands.
> 
> I reward good behavior though. I actually have had him off leash at 4 months old, and he usually finds his way back home by himself, but doesn't run more then 20 feet infront of me without stopping to see if I'm coming.



Since yesterday ive started rewarding properly


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## dylano (Jul 6, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have.


Thank you soo much

What im going to do is reward good behaviour and when he pulls change direction with out saying a word. Will this work? if this doesnt work i will use the infomation from Leash Walking Ahimsa Dog Blog. I under stand the first 4 points but not the rest? also kai still bites and as he does not respond to our correction. How should we correct


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

The first 4 were the ones I used, I think you could not worry about the others. In addition to what you're planning on doing you could also start working on Silky Leash in the house, which is where you're supposed to do the initial training anyway. This video demonstrates the technique and explains how and why it works:


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## KSoloniewicz (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi Dylano, with my experience head collars/haltis, they may work, but they are horrible for your dog! It causes unnessecary pressure on the snout and eyes, and is horrible for their neck, it can lead to slipped disks etc. I actually went to a trainer today for private lessons and while there, I told him that I've tried everything with Sarge, prong collars, gentle leader (head collar), everything, and he said horrible things about the head halti. Flat collars dont do anything, eventually they just keep hanging themself. 
When Kai is walking slack, at your side, praise him to the sky and back, not a yippy ya ya voice, but a quick good touch and let him know what hes doing is right. When hes pulling, give him a quick pop of the leash, and if you have to, turn the other way. (With Sarge pulling its because hes scared of his own shadow and tries to run back to the house on the way home from our walk.)
Martingale collars and prong collars work really well, prong collars are meant for corrections, not a negative form of training if used correctly, with the quick pop correction, and dont forget, less talk is really more with dogs. 
Try and see what can be causing the pulling, not enough exericse or mental stimulation etc. I know some of these things have already been suggested, but I hope some of them help! If you have any more questions, I'm sure someone wont mind answering


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Dylano you may have answered but i missed it - how much and what sort of excercise does yr dog get?


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