# Popular stud dog, but what is with his structure?



## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

Basko von Haus Heldmann has me stumped. 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/444296.html

I've seen videos and he is very impressive at work, but I just can't get over this picture. Is it the way he is positioned that makes him look like that?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

he's probably a pretty balanced dog when he isn't stacked so extreme. you'll notice he also has a knee in his rear.

i've definitely seen worse.


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## Liz S (May 14, 2009)

Probably the perspective?


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I think with a more "natural" stack he would look much better!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Yup.. the knee is pushing down on the dog's croup.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Oooooh, the knee on the rear!! Thanks for pointing that


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Sneaky, huh? One foot braces a hindpaw, and the knee squishes the dog's butt down enough that he looks roached. This is done often, I see it in many photos.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

He is a little stretched IMHO, so I would watch breeding him to a stretched (lanky) female. 

I tried to translate the Korr and got Large, Stretched, Medium Strong, short upper arm. I used Goggle, I was lazy I use to do it word at a time from a different site and it made more sense.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I wouldn't totally judge the structure on that pic alone. The handler has a knee pressing down into him and is hanging onto the collar, so it's possible he's being pushed down plus leaning forward at something if he has to be held back by the collar. Or, he could just be like he's pictured.

I have the opposite problem with my dog, he posts and presses backward. I don't want him to look so roached/stretched as this photo, but when I pull at the base of Nikon's tail his oppositional reflex kicks in and he pushes down and forward a little more, presenting what honestly looks like his natural, alert stack.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

To me he doesn't look very roached - he looks like he's a AKC Show dog.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I must agree...knee on rump or not, that dog is more angulated than most working lines


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## jesusica (Jan 13, 2006)

He looks like a completely different dog in person. You truly wouldn't recognize him. 

Unfortunately I don't have pics showing him at this angle unobstructed by handler.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: XephI must agree...knee on rump or not, that dog is more angulated than most working lines


Yep I think you can see it in the other pics too. Not as extreme as the stack but definitely there.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Picture of two of his puppies at 8 weeks and 9 weeks respectively. I think they both have pretty nice structure and from watching their movement, they move really nice too, with good front reach and also straight in front and rear.

Archer von der Traumwolfen, placed with Mark Natinsky, National Competitor









and Allegra von der Traumwolfen


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Some is the dog's natural structure. Some is how he is being stacked. There seems to be a trend to want to force all the dogs to look like the show lines. It is not uncommon for working lines to have a lot of rear angulation.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

In the heeling photo he reminds me of his half brother Javir.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I think this shows that the stack is why so many show lines look like they do in pics. I have had different pics of the same dog and in some they look extreme and in some pretty straight. It depends on how the feet are placed, whether the handler bends the dogs knee while placing feet, and if the dog is settling down instead of trying to pull up. Sometimes people seeing the stack assume the dog has a slanted back and lots have a straight flat back. I've been told by people my dog is a nice shepherd because he doesn't have a sloped back and they have seen pics and think that is how they usually look, my boy is not real extreme but have had him stacked quite a bit that way to see what handlers are teaching at handling class.


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## umzilla (Nov 2, 2007)

If structure could be judged by a stack alone, there would be no gaiting in the ring!!

The way you stack a dog can hide or accentuate faults, create an illusion of something that isn't there - sometimes you wouldn't even know it was the same dog from a series of pictures of the same dog stacked differently.

That stacked photo is not natural for the dog - in many ways!

Christine


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

No, it is very ugly.


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## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

I'm glad to hear that it is just a weird stack/picture. Thank you for posting those pictures Jesusica. I figured there was no way the dog could really look like that with hardcore working line breeders using him, but couldn't find any other pictures of him. 

It still just baffles me that this would be the picture used for this dog though. It's just very shocking to be perusing breeder's websites and see this picture. To say this picture stands out among all the other pictures of working dogs would be an understatement.


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## Nelly (May 15, 2005)

I wonder if exaggerated structure is becoming more acceptable in working lines ? I am not just talking about basko, who I think is a nice looking dog, but as already mentioned perhaps too much rear angulation







. which allows for exaggerated stacking.
It is the same as the roach backs if they do not have that structure in the first place you cannot create it in a stack.
Some V-rated working lines are looking more like show lines, which some people think it is a good thing







others prefer the look of the dogs in generations past which is what drew me to WL's in the first place.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I loved Paska Salztalblick, who had a very American build IMO, but I hear he was a knockout in the work


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## Nelly (May 15, 2005)

> Quote: I wonder if exaggerated structure is becoming more acceptable in working lines ?


Bego Brigar


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkbNZzgNQlA <--Video of Basko, so you can see the angles.


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## umzilla (Nov 2, 2007)

*Re: Popular stud dog, but what is with his structu*

Bego Brigar 







[/quote]

Again, exaggerated stack.... would like to see this dog stacked naturally. 

Christine


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: Popular stud dog, but what is with his structu*

Even in an exaggerated stack, you can see the dog has angles. The most exaggeration I see is that the rear leg is pulled back too far, and the angle of th epicture is off.


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## Nelly (May 15, 2005)

*Re: Popular stud dog, but what is with his structu*

What bothers me is why that kinda of look is supposed to be appealing ? 

I could not get my gsd (WL) to look like that no matter how I stacked her, I think the same is true for many other working lines, however some like the dog in the pic, sorry if it was not for his sable colouring reminds me of a typical showline.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: Popular stud dog, but what is with his structu*

Personally I think it's his topline (the roach) that makes him the most unappealing.

He doesn't have a TON of angles (not like the first dog), but even if you moved the rear foot so his hock was perpindicular to the ground, he'd still roach


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: Popular stud dog, but what is with his structu*

Wow, he's very angulated when stacked. I hope the WL don't go the same route as most showlines...
Cody is half American/German and I can get him to stack as far as most Americans but when standing straight he has a straight back, but these are full WL I'm assuming so wow.


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