# Timeout for my Land Shark



## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

My puppy is 7.5 weeks old, and here are the symptoms:

Odin: *bite*
Me: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! don't bite, I've said NOOOOOOO for the millionth time!
Odin: BUT I LOVE TO BITE! *bite*

Me: Here's a chew toy
Odin: I prefer skin *bite*

Me: *Ignores dog and walks away*
Odin: I've got your ankle, and I'm biting extra hard. Whatcha gonna do about it now? *bite*

Me: Thinks of a good timeout place that isn't the crate.... *light bulb* The Back Yard!
Me: I refer to him as "Shark" when he bites me and take him out
Me: Observes that the dog cries when I take him to the yard,
Me: He doesn't leave the door and scratches it for a few minutes, and he looks incredibly bored.

It's the 5th time that I've taken him out within the last 40 minutes, and it looks like he's now hesitating to bite when I let him in. Let's see how my 6th attempt for him to cool it on the biting works.

The funny thing is that he doesn't bite me or anyone whenever I walk him or when I driving. After 10-15 minutes of walking he tires out, and I have to carry him home, I imagine it's because he's only 7 weeks.

What do you all think?


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

Took 10 tries, and now he's chewing on his toy instead of me! Success! I wonder if this will work if I try this out for a week.

I just know one thing. He hates being in the yard by himself.


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

Hope your okay with potty runs because chances are he won't go out himself in the giant back punishment pen


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Yeah, now he will associate the yard with being banished.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

I found better luck wearing boots and jeans while completely ignoring my pup when he was sharking around; the second he backed off was an immediate reward - my attention, treats, happy voices.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Glad the yard is working but I wouldn't use it long term. If he starts getting used to the yard (as he matures and gets more independent) it's going to just be another fun place for him so no learning. Like sending your kid to their room as punishment and it's where their books, computer, tv and phone are....

Have you had a chance to look at (click ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...wner/188549-puppy-biting-hints-tips-heip.html ) for other hints and tips?

aw:


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

My dog loves the yard... it's being alone in the yard that he dislikes, and he always gets a treat for going outside and doing his business.

He's not perfect yet when it comes to potty training, but he's only 8 weeks now. When I let him out of the crate, he knows to go outside... It's when I play with him extended hours, he forgets and just goes.


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

O


MaggieRoseLee said:


> Glad the yard is working but I wouldn't use it long term. If he starts getting used to the yard (as he matures and gets more independent) it's going to just be another fun place for him so no learning. Like sending your kid to their room as punishment and it's where their books, computer, tv and phone are....
> 
> Have you had a chance to look at (click ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...wner/188549-puppy-biting-hints-tips-heip.html ) for other hints and tips?
> 
> aw:


I've tried everything. I tried Caesar's grab his neck skin and tsssst from his latest book, I've tried the ouch method, I've tried ignoring him in which he just bites harder typically goes for my ankles, I've redirected him to toys, and he is relentless with wanting my skin. My arms and ankles are now chewed up and full of scabs.

When I do the neck skin grab or hold his mouth shut, he growls and shows his teeth to me in which I stare at his eyes until he looks the other way to show that he does not intimidate me. I'm trying to avoid this technique, but he doesn't let go of me unless I do this.

When he isn't in land shark mode, he's practically perfect. He sits and lays on command, he behaves well when I walk him, and he loves to socialize with other people.

I'm going to try the laundry room instead of the yard since potty training is a good point.

Also, I've thought of puppy school at Pet's Mart, but my Vet is against it. She said that even though all dogs are required to be vaccinated, all kinds of dogs enter the pet store that could potentially have parvo.

Not until he has like his third rounds of shots.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Please read more on this forum. 

Stop grabbing his muzzle right now. Doing this to a puppy and staring at him will do nothing but make him fear you. He is only 7 and a half weeks old! He growls and shows his teeth out of fear. 

Play with your puppy, redirect the biting, and keep training. He will grow out of it, and until he does, have patience.


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## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

Belmont said:


> O
> 
> I've tried everything. I tried Caesar's grab his neck skin and tsssst from his latest book, I've tried the ouch method, I've tried ignoring him in which he just bites harder typically goes for my ankles, I've redirected him to toys, and he is relentless with wanting my skin. My arms and ankles are now chewed up and full of scabs.


I had this problem with Gaia as well while she's now mostly past the mouthy landshark phase nothing worked with her, I never tried anything physical and I know it would have just amped her up most. Redirecting worked sometimes, the ouch and ignoring I never had much sucess with. 

Instead of placing him in time out what I found worked best was leaving the room for 10-15 seconds and coming back. If she was calm when I came back she'd be rewarded with praise for not attacking me, after a couple of days of her play time abruplty ending she quickly changed her tune and started bringing her toys to me to play instead of thinking my hands/feet were play toys. 

In my opinion, by removing him to another room/outside two things are happening, he's getting extra attention from you whether it's negative or not it's still attention and he's going to assoicate those areas as "bad" areas.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Sunflowers said:


> Please read more on this forum.
> 
> Stop grabbing his muzzle right now. Doing this to a puppy and staring at him will do nothing but make him fear you. *He is only 7 and a half weeks* old! He growls and shows his teeth out of fear.
> 
> Play with your puppy, redirect the biting, and keep training. He will grow out of it, and until he does, have patience.


Think you need to take a step back and remember how young your pup is. To expect him to be housebroken and/not biting are both things we'd all love to have at that age, but few of us do.

Giving too high expectations for such a tiny baby is just setting him up for failure and us for frustration. 

At this age I focus way more on ----> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...191183-top-training-expectations-puppies.html

And work in the crate training plus bite inhibition along the way....

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...wner/188549-puppy-biting-hints-tips-heip.html


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Gotta love that landshark phase. I was so bitten up all the time. But it did pass. Ouch and verbal stuff didn't really work with Stella. And I figured out very fast that physically restraining her just amped her up. Ignoring was not much use either. She just grabbed my pants...they still have the holes. I just stuffed toys in her mouth and tugged around a bit. And I repeated my mantra,"Don't bite the mommy". When she finally settled down I would rub her belly gently and keep saying that. Honestly, I don't know if anything I did made her stop or if she just outgrew it! But I am glad she is over that because a bite from her now hurts!


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## LaneyB (Feb 5, 2012)

Ruki's landshark phase was awful. I have some weird medical thing happening, and I pretty much bruise if somebody looks at me funny. So I was covered in bruises from him biting. I looked like somebody beat the heck out of me. I am a nurse, and I had a few patients actually talk to me to find out if I am being abused (which was funny because we are the ones who are supposed to screen them for abuse).

I agree with the others - all of a sudden it got better, and I am not sure it had anything to do with our interventions. We did the toy in the mouth, yelping, walking away, and nothing seemed to help. Then one day he just didn't seem to do it as much. He is close to 6 months old, and while he still bites occasionally it isn't near as bad as it used to be. 

I also finally caved in and put a collar on him, and when he bites me I hold him by the collar against my leg and ignore him. The instructor at his teenage puppy class suggested trying it. That usually does the trick, but I wouldn't do that on an 8-week-old.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Puppy biting is not something that you can get your pup to stop doing - it's part of being a puppy. They won't stop because you have tried everything, anymore than they will stop playing, chasing, sleeping, peeing, pouncing, cuddling . . . and so on. GSD pups are bright, inquisitive, active, curious, and more than anything else, they want to play with their person, and using their mouth (and those ouch! sharp little teeth), is like using their hands to 'see' and interact and explore. 

I personally strongly believe that biting/being mouthy is an important part of their normal mental development, and if prevented from going through that phase at an early age, it often comes out at a later stage. People involved in rescue often see this in dogs that have grown up isolated with little human or dog interaction. They have a one or two or three year old dog going through the mouthing/biting people in play phase. So instead of surpressing the puppy biting, the best thing to do is to find ways to redirect to appropriate toys and objects, and arm oneself with a load of patience, and wait for them to grow out of it. 


Be happy that your pup WANTS to play and interact with you, that will make training so much easier as he grows. In the meantime, tire out the little bugger. Lots of outside play and exercise should dampen that biting machine down.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Belmont said:


> ....in which I stare at his eyes until he looks the other way to show that he does not intimidate me.


Your puppy is not trying to intimidate you - staring him down is teaching him nothing, expect maybe to avoid eyes contact.  I want my dogs to enjoy and seek out eye contact with me, so I prefer to reward them for it instead of making it so uncomfortable that they turn away. 



> So instead of surpressing the puppy biting, the best thing to do is to find ways to redirect to appropriate toys and objects, and arm oneself with a load of patience, and wait for them to grow out of it.


:thumbup: It's a process that takes time, so definitely work on your patience. He's still very young, and you've only had him a short time. It should gradually minimize over a period of weeks or months, as he learns that biting you is not appropriate (that's how he played with his littermates, and he doesn't realize that humans have tender skin and it HURTS!), and you've taught him how to engage with you in play with toys, not teeth.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

LaneyB said:


> Ruki's landshark phase was awful. I have some weird medical thing happening, and I pretty much bruise if somebody looks at me funny. So I was covered in bruises from him biting. I looked like somebody beat the heck out of me. I am a nurse, and I had a few patients actually talk to me to find out if I am being abused (which was funny because we are the ones who are supposed to screen them for abuse).


This rings true with me! Between my medications and my autoimmune conditions, I am COVERED with awful looking bruises on both arms right now as well as scratches, welts, and scabs. Looks like I really got into it with someone! It freaked my kids out... had to explain that it looks so bad because of my personal issues. Grim is a chewing machine, but he's already getting better. I thought about posting pics of my arms so maybe others could see they don't have it so bad, but decided against it because he's not really THAT bad. No one else in the family has this, but I also play with him the most. The stuffing the toy in the mouth didn't really work well with him. I did find that taking a 'time out' from play had a better effect. We're also working on 'gentle' which he's already picking up.  LOTS of ways to deal with it, but it makes me sad to see people being mean to their puppies to 'cure' this. I agree, it's a normal part of a GSD's development. This is the fourth pup I've raised that is a shepherd, and although this time around is a bit more intense, I've never resorted to hurting, intimidating or punishing a pup for this, and they all got through it. It takes time... and patience. Makes me wonder what the teenage phase will result in for these pups.


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

Jag said:


> This rings true with me! Between my medications and my autoimmune conditions, I am COVERED with awful looking bruises on both arms right now as well as scratches, welts, and scabs. Looks like I really got into it with someone! It freaked my kids out... had to explain that it looks so bad because of my personal issues. Grim is a chewing machine, but he's already getting better. I thought about posting pics of my arms so maybe others could see they don't have it so bad, but decided against it because he's not really THAT bad. No one else in the family has this, but I also play with him the most. The stuffing the toy in the mouth didn't really work well with him. I did find that taking a 'time out' from play had a better effect. We're also working on 'gentle' which he's already picking up.  LOTS of ways to deal with it, but it makes me sad to see people being mean to their puppies to 'cure' this. I agree, it's a normal part of a GSD's development. This is the fourth pup I've raised that is a shepherd, and although this time around is a bit more intense, I've never resorted to hurting, intimidating or punishing a pup for this, and they all got through it. It takes time... and patience. Makes me wonder what the teenage phase will result in for these pups.



I take it that the advise that Cesar gives in his latest book is not popular? When he does bite hard, how do you take his his teeth off your punctured bleeding skin without scaring him and without making him think you're his beta male?

I have yet to hit him. Just a firm grab of the neck in the same way his biological parents would grab his neck.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Belmont said:


> *I take it that the advise that Cesar gives in his latest book is not popular?* When he does bite hard, how do you take his his teeth off your punctured bleeding skin without scaring him and without making him think you're his beta male?
> 
> I have yet to hit him. Just a firm grab of the neck in the same way his biological parents would grab his neck.


Does Cesar have a puppy raising book now? For regular normal puppies? Most of the stuff I've seen/read from him are for problem dogs that need to be rehabilitated (or the owners rehabed ). So the methods used for a normal happy puppy are WAY different from one that's got issues and problems and isn't normal at all....


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Belmont said:


> I take it that the advise that Cesar gives in his latest book is not popular? When he does bite hard, how do you take his his teeth off your punctured bleeding skin without scaring him and without making him think you're his beta male?
> 
> I have yet to hit him. Just a firm grab of the neck in the same way his biological parents would grab his neck.


I didn't know he had a book out at all. When Grim grabs my arm, I say "ah-ah" and use my free hand to gently remove his teeth from my arm then re-direct him to a toy and stand up so he can't get to my arm again. I'm also working on "gentle" which is working... he can now mouth me without biting down. (Although it's not 100%) I have a really high-drive pup, so the methods that worked for my previous shepherds don't work as well with him. Tiring him out with play and going all over our large fenced yard helps a lot! It takes quite a bit to really tire him out, though. It's only been a week, but he's learned 'sit' and we're now working on "look at me". Very short sessions. I don't think GSD pups are even like other pups. One GSD pup isn't like another, either. However, they all can be worked with the same way. Trust me, nearly every time I play with him I end up bleeding from several spots. I have sjogren's, so my skin is VERY dry and breaks easily. It's painful, but this too shall pass.


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## Lucky Paw (Sep 29, 2012)

dude you going to think im nuts but i bit my dog's ear at 17 weeks and never bit me again not even playing


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Does Cesar have a puppy raising book now? For regular normal puppies? Most of the stuff I've seen/read from him are for problem dogs that need to be rehabilitated (or the owners rehabed ). So the methods used for a normal happy puppy are WAY different from one that's got issues and problems and isn't normal at all....



How to Raise the Perfect Dog: Through Puppyhood and Beyond: Cesar Millan,Melissa Jo Peltier: 9780307461308: Amazon.com: Books










No, this book is meant for regular dogs. Not for a problem dog.

I do not want to plagiarize, but here are some snippets in quotes:

Page 238



> Common Problem 4
> Nipping (24 Percent) and Mouthing (19 Percent)
> 
> "I would gently but firmly cup their necks or the tops of their heads with my hand curved into a "claw" shape that mimics another dog's mouth. Then I would hold that position until they relaxed."
> ...


Everything online tells me to use the "ouch method," or "give him toys," or "ignore him, and leave the room", but it's pretty hard to ignore him when his teeth are puncturing my ankles as I'm walking away from him and making me bleed. 

It just seems to me that doing these internet tips is just showing dogs that they are the boss and in control of the house, and they simply have not worked for me.

Now for the good news is that I'm trying a different approach since he simply will never stop biting. He simply cannot help himself, so I've been showing him to bite softer instead of stop biting. It's funny how it appears to understand "Bite Softer" easier than "Don't Bite."

Yesterday, he did not even make my hand bleed, but he gets in his hard bites in when I let him mouth me. I'll give everyone a status update next week.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Redirect to a toy. That is you make the toy incredibly interesting and valuable. How? You fuss over the toy. You covet the toy. You get puppy to bite the toy and you play with the toy & the puppy. When you need to get anything done, remember that the crate is your puppy's special place AND YOUR FRIEND! To save myself on walks, I let her mouth the lead. Not the best solution because when she's fired up now at nearly 3 yo she will still mouth the lead in excitment.


The joy of getting a puppy younger (7 weeks) is they are nippy for an extra week in your home! 

My opinion on Mr. Milan - burn the book, turn off the channel, do not google.

Take a look at Sheila Booth's _Purely Positive Training: Companion to Competetion_ for alternative responses.


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

middleofnowhere said:


> Redirect to a toy. That is you make the toy incredibly interesting and valuable. How? You fuss over the toy. You covet the toy. You get puppy to bite the toy and you play with the toy & the puppy. When you need to get anything done, remember that the crate is your puppy's special place AND YOUR FRIEND! To save myself on walks, I let her mouth the lead. Not the best solution because when she's fired up now at nearly 3 yo she will still mouth the lead in excitment.
> 
> 
> The joy of getting a puppy younger (7 weeks) is they are nippy for an extra week in your home!
> ...



I do agree that making the toy more interesting does help, but it only helps for a minute.

BUT one last thing.

Other than the biting, he's been perfect at everything else. 

1. He's not aggressive with his food
2. He seems to get along with other dogs really well
3. He learns tricks really fast
4. He has not had an accident in his crate for nearly two weeks, and he generally does not have accidents as long as I take him out every 3 hours.
5. when I walk him, he turns off land shark mode, and becomes 100% obedient.
6. He doesn't bite strangers.

If he could stop the biting at home, he'd be the perfect dog.

Here is a picture of him:


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Belmont said:


> It just seems to me that doing these internet tips is just showing dogs that they are the boss and in control of the house, and they simply have not worked for me.


You are really hung up on this dominance thing with your baby puppy. He is just a baby and everything at this age goes in his mouth, including you. Would you slap a human baby for chewing on everything around him and accuse it of trying to be the boss?! No! So stop doing this to your puppy.

He can't help biting as it's what they do at this age. Get over it and figure out that you are going to get bitten for a while and stop whining about it. Your pup will out grow it in a few months. Just keep redirecting him to toys rather than your skin and stop punishing him for it.


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

Elaine said:


> You are really hung up on this dominance thing with your baby puppy. He is just a baby and everything at this age goes in his mouth, including you. Would you slap a human baby for chewing on everything around him and accuse it of trying to be the boss?! No! So stop doing this to your puppy.
> 
> He can't help biting as it's what they do at this age. Get over it and figure out that you are going to get bitten for a while and stop whining about it. Your pup will out grow it in a few months. Just keep redirecting him to toys rather than your skin and stop punishing him for it.


After reading the forums, I am happy to know that it's normal for the breed, and that he will eventually out grow of it.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I teach my puppies to bite softly, instead of teaching them not to bite. I'd move my fingers into the part of the jaw where there aren't any teeth, and avoid the teeth. I also did alot of the redirect with a toy thing, but I really like my dogs to be mouthy - just so long as the mouthing is gentle. And I also find that by letting them have some fun with my fingers, they don't even bother with my ankles or my feet. That's a big no-no to me, lol.


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

Lucky Paw said:


> dude you going to think im nuts but i bit my dog's ear at 17 weeks and never bit me again not even playing


This was what I was taught too. It def works but I wouldnt say use it for a baby. 17 weeks isnt the same as an 8 week old puppy.


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

Narny said:


> This was what I was taught too. It def works but I wouldnt say use it for a baby. 17 weeks isnt the same as an 8 week old puppy.


I'm afraid to even touch his ear with the fear of his ears dropping permanently. I'll just be more patient with my little friend.

I just hope he does grow out of it. Thanks for all the support everyone.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Narny said:


> This was what I was taught too. It def works but I wouldnt say use it for a baby. 17 weeks isnt the same as an 8 week old puppy.


That's really not a good idea, and shouldn't be done at any age. Your dog knows that YOU'RE not a dog, and humans are not capable of acting as quickly as a dog would, so mimicking what a mother does with her puppies simply doesn't translate to human/dog relationships. Just because it stopped the biting doesn't mean it's not a flawed, outdated theory.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Lucky Paw said:


> dude you going to think im nuts but i bit my dog's ear at 17 weeks and never bit me again not even playing


 
I have no words for how bad this advice is. DO NOT EVER DO THIS!!!!!! It's shocking that anyone would not only do this, but suggest that this is a good thing to do.:hammer:


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

I wanted to give everyone an update.

My puppy is doing MUCH better now at 9 weeks. He still nips, but he's not doing it nearly as much. He'll actually go for the toy instead of disregarding it for my hands when he's in shark mode, and my hands are actually nearly healed because he has also toned down the intensity of his bite. He's not perfect, but he's now actually livable.

Also, he has not had one potty accident for an entire week, and today he whined to go outside and did his business after an extended play session. In a couple of weeks, I think he'll have this down completely.

One thing I've learned about this is that German Shepherds are not for newbies. My deceased Boxer was so much easier compared to this little one, so I can't recommend this breed to a first time dog owner. One thing I do like about him is he's much smarter than my boxer was.

One advantage is that instead of having to teach him something between 50-100 times, he learns it by the 20th time at worst, and he keeps getting sharper every week.

Someone was recommending me to get him a dog puzzle. Anyone know a good one that's appropriate for his age?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

The Bustercube is good - it's the square plastic one that dispenses kibble. My puppy had some great times with it. I don't use it much any more because it can really fly when it's jumped on by a bigger puppy, lol!


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## SukiGirl (Aug 31, 2012)

I was getting bitten and nipped for MONTHS before Suki learned that we were not chew toys. 

What helped the most for us was walking away and ignoring her. No crating, no yelling, or correcting. Just walking away and ignoring. 

Our puppies want to be near us all the time. If you teach them that they will get attention (even bad attention is better than no attention to them) if they bite, they will continue to do it. Just like human children! 

Suki eventually learned that if she wants to play with us, she has to play by our rules.

Once you curb the majority of the biting, you can start working on a 'soft mouth' with your dog. When Suki takes treats from us, she knows she has to be 'easy' with her mouth or she gets nothing.

As far as the puzzle toys go, Suki loves, loves, loves this one. We put her kibble in it and when its empty she brings it back and puts it in my lap and looks at me like "Mom, I want more!). Its easily washed and pretty durable.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12107602


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

My puppy is now 12 weeks old, and even though he still likes to play bite, his mouth has become much softer, and he has not cut me in two weeks. Bite inhibition training has really paid off.


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

This is him now at 12 weeks.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

There are many ways to raise a good puppy...a lot of what Cesar does I have found effective also......read the book if it helps and use common sense. Good luck!


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## Bubbles (Aug 31, 2012)

My bubbles is a land shark too. I've tried a lot of ways to get her to stop. Toys, ice, focusing on laying down, a smack (not hard), time out .

I found out bubble hates being sprayed with water in the face if she even tries to lung at me and bite. I just spray her with water. She will sit and look sad. But I give her a kiss and some cuddling and she's okay with not biting. Its hard to always spray her but she's getting the hint. maybe you could try a spray bottle of water.


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## ramsker (Feb 10, 2013)

As a new GSD owner (our first), I have to say that I feel a whole lot better after reading that the mouthing/biting seems to be such a common thing among other owners. Our Ranger is 11 weeks old and is such a great dog already--but I had to laugh out loud at the "Land Shark" moniker in this thread . . . because Ranger has a full-on shark mode too. Most of the time he's fantastic and he's learning other things so fast. But boy, does he delight in nibbling and jawing on hands and feet.

Sounds like it's something to work on but that it should fade with time and the training? We'll just keep working at it. We've tried redirecting with chew toys without much luck so far. The "yelp" thing only seems to excite Ranger. Have tried doing that and leaving the room. Was at the vet today and their trainer was there--he gave us a shorter leash and recommended having an anchor spot in the house to use as a timeout place after the yelp when he bites. Let him think about it for a minute and then try again. 

We'll probably give that a try for when he just won't stop--but will keep going with redirecting and trying to teach "off". We'll see what happens. Will definitely be reading up and asking questions.


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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

To give everyone an update on this, Odin is now 10 months old next week and he has not bitten me in ages. 

Like at around 6 months, he just gave up.

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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

I hate to say it, but I kind of miss my little land shark. I wonder if I was too hard on him.

He's really gentle now at 11.5 months. Two more weeks and he's officially no longer a puppy.



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## Belmont (Sep 26, 2012)

That was fast.

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