# To Stud or Not to Stud



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

That is the question.

I will admit I am interested in doing this. Of course it all hinges on his OFA when he turns 2. If it is less than good, I will neuter him. But in the meantime I plan of working the heck out of him (and will continue to do so if he is neutered).


For example: 
The dog is within the breed standard and has Hips/Elbows OFA Good +, Cerf, is tittled in something (BH/TDI/OB/TD/etc), has been DNA tested and disease tested, is AKC registered, has a good temperament/nerves.

Is there something I have forgotten? 

I cannot tell you that I want to do it right. It's something that I am passionate about and am not interested in making a buck but becoming further involved in the world of GSDs.

(please keep in mind that everyone who has become a well respected reputable breeder started somewhere. I am trying to do it the right way by asking for advice from those more experienced than me.)

Should I have prelim OFA's done or just wait??


----------



## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Pedigree is a big thing.
Also what titles will you put on the dog? better the title more money you can get of course.

If you was to market the dog to stud...what would be your reasons as to why I should use your dog as a stud? (basically a sales pitch)


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Ace952 said:


> Pedigree is a big thing.
> Also what titles will you put on the dog? better the title more money you can get of course.
> 
> If you was to market the dog to stud...what would be your reasons as to why I should use your dog as a stud? (basically a sales pitch)


We just got our CGC (not incredibly hard of course) so now we are cleaning things up and I am really wanting our TDI and BH(ScH) or OB(AKC) also looking a doing tracking soon as he seems to really enjoy that and several other dogs (his sister) are tracking. I seriously need to just quit my job so I can train him! I love it!!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Remember that a good stud dog, one with excellent pedigree, titles, championships, ofas -- in short a great resume, can breed to MANY bitches in a year's time. 

So you have to figure out what it is that your dog has that will make the owner of a good bitch go for him instead of another dog. 

At the same time you have to be choosy about who you are willing to breed to. If you breed to a bitch of questionable character/temperament, or with a serious fault or medical condition in her lines, then you can get known for that fault. So you really need to check out the bitches as well.

Also, your dog could get brucellosis -- a sexually transmitted disease that will cause him to be sterile, pups will be aborted, and the dam will become sterile. Yes they can pick this up off the toilet seat so to speak so, you need to test your dog for brucellosis, and not breed to ANY bitch who has not been tested for it. I would ask for a vaginal culture as well and specifically name what you are concerned about, like microplasma etc. 

While you are busily building your dog's resume, get involved with a GSD club -- travel to the meetings, mine are about 2 hours away, but go further if necessary. You need to network with people, and ONLY breed to people you feel are serious about the breed. Everyone has a pretty bitch or a nice bitch, but that is not good enough. 

Being the stud owner is a big deal. When the bitch needs to be bred, she needs to be bred, that means other plans go out the window. You will need to try and get two or three ties, every other day. Make sure you have a clear stud contract. Money is generally given up front, at the time of the breeding. If you are breeding for a puppy, then you need to have it clearly stated whether it is a pick or what have you. Usually a puppy is worth more than a stud fee, but it really depends. Make sure your stud contract discusses ALL possibilities -- what happens if there is no litter, what happens if their is only one pup. 

Once you agree to stud your dog to a bitch, you should not turn back. They would then have to scramble to find an appropriate dog while their bitch is in heat. So be sure what you expect out of the bitch and her owners is clear prior to consenting to breed the bitch. If they arrive and cannot produce the health checks, do NOT breed to her. Send them packing. It is too dangerous to YOUR dog to breed a bitch who does not check out. 

Good luck.


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Like Ace said, pedigree. There is a lot more to producing good puppies than a nice male and a nice female. A good understanding of genetics and how putting the two togeher will complement each other should be a big consideration for the Bitch owner when using a stud.

Also, most of the titles you mentioned are very basic titles and don't prove workability IMO. But I'm also not a puppy buyer .


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I guess I would ask , who would you breed to? 

I know the pedigree behind this dog, since I have/had some of the same. WHile he is absolutely gorgeous, one thing I see that will not be popular with some is he's a coat.

I know nothing personally about the temperament of your dog, but IF i were considering breeding him,,this is what I'd do first..RIght now, he's just over a year old, he's got his CGC, I'd now get him into obedience training, and at the bare minimum get a CD on him, I'd do the BH, having him TDI'd would benefit, I'd also have him Temperament Tested, do some tracking..what I'm saying is, NOW is the time to start working towards any titles you can go for and then go for them OFA hips and elbows at 2, I would thyroid test, DM test, Cerf..

EVEN then, finding a female may prove to be difficult. 

And EVEN then, would I personally buy a puppy from a breeding to this male? And don't take this as an insult, because it's not, my answer would probably be "no".
Why? Because there are just to many other dogs out there that interest me more. 

My female is a Reiko granddaughter, (so we're kinda related , Love her to death, I would get another in a heartbeat from her breeder.

For me personally, I have no desire to 'breed dogs',,I'd rather work on my own and if I wanted another, I'd go back to where I got this one from)

Just my 2 cents, and again he's absolutely gorgeous


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> Like Ace said, pedigree. There is a lot more to producing good puppies than a nice male and a nice female. A good understanding of genetics and how putting the two togeher will complement each other should be a big consideration for the Bitch owner when using a stud.
> 
> Also, most of the titles you mentioned are very basic titles and don't prove workability IMO. But I'm also not a puppy buyer .


What tittles should I shoot for?? 

The working thing is all new to me so I don't know what tittles are the heaviest hitters other than ScH1,2,and 3.


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I guess I would ask , who would you breed to?
> 
> I know the pedigree behind this dog, since I have/had some of the same. WHile he is absolutely gorgeous, one thing I see that will not be popular with some is he's a coat.
> 
> ...


No insult taken at all! Some of your have been breeding, training, involved, etc GSD's all your lives so I guess I'm kinda asking in a round about way if I went ahead and did all these things, would he be something that would interest a breeder to use him as a stud dog. Of course I will do many of these things whether I breed him or not. Just kinda probing to see thoughts of more experienced people.

We took basic classes and start the advanced training classes tomorrow actually. Whether I breed him or not I want to work him and compete with him. Can I neuter him and still tittle him?? I'm under the impression that the dogs need to be intact for some tittles, am I right??

Ah yes his coat. I was looking for a plush coat but ended up with him without knowing he was going to be an "ultra plush coat" haha. He's almost in between a long coat and plush coat. As far as I know the Henna-c lines spit these dogs out often and people love them. I'm actually happy I ended up with his coat. I met his brother from another mother (lol :wild and the same father yesterday and he is a plush and I really like Sonar's "look" much better. Both beautiful dogs. But of course I see where you are headed with this point. 

Thanks for the honesty. :hug:


----------



## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

As a puppy buyer I am looking for not only a Ch. but obedience, rally and agility titles higher than the novice ones of CD, RN, and AgN. The CGC/CGN, TDI, HIC, and such are nice for pets and what not, but not enough for me to spend $1500-$2000 on a puppy.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not know about schutzhund, but you can title an altered dog in any AKC venue save conformation.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Absolutely you can neuter and still title him...There's all kinds of things you can do with him neutered..AKC Obedience, herding, rally, tracking, TDI, BH,,Agility!!

I'm glad your doing obed classes with him. These lines are really good obed dogs in my opinion If I were you, check out to see if there are any dog shows, matches, agility trials, whatever in your area and go now and WATCH...see what's going on. Most allow dogs not entered so take Sonar with you

I think rally and obed go great together, tho some find obed a tad boring, and some dogs do to,,the rally is more of a fun obed type venue.

I see your in MA..there should be all kinds of stuff going up there Lots of agility trials, there's The Tracking Club of MA I think it's called..Check out www.cleanrun.com they list agility trials in the ma area..

possibilities are endless..The only thing you can not show / title in if your dog is neutered in the conformation ring..otherwise anything goes


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Join a training club too. 

Getting to know the people out there with their dogs, doing things, is great. It is great networking, it is great experience and it is fun. You meet good people and have much in common with them. 

Volunteer at events too. Get to know everything there is to know about different venues, and then learn more. Get known as someone serious, and get your dog out there and known. 

Do as I say, not as I do -- take your dog into the ring and compete for the ribbons, when he is really, really ready. (I usually take mine in as soon as I think we can pass, and am pleasantly surprised by their performance.) But with a boy, you want to showcase him. He has no heat cycles to screw up his training schedule, etc. So you want him to give an awesome performance and for people to see that.


----------



## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

you can compete with any dog in schutzhund, my first was a nuetered bitch I registered as a mix cause I didn't want to mess around with paperwork to trial.

I don't think obedience or a bh is enough to breed with. Personally if a dog only had that, i'd have to really work it and see what it was like and that would involve bitework. and I would like to see a tracking title too. I think a lot of temperment flaws or strengths are brought out under pressure, and not the kind you get from an obedience ring. 

even if a dog has a title, i still would have to work it to see what it was like, but I'd be much more likely to look at a dog that had a "working" title other than just obedience or basic BH. 

He'd also have to be exceptional as well, as he is a coated dog. There are lots of good stud dogs out there that aren't coated. I would personally still breed or take a dog from a coated dog as long as the breeding made sense overall, but again the dog would have to be exceptional, not an "ordinary" stud dog.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

your dog can be all that -- but if you do not have good knowledge of pedigrees or know how to discriminate and guide his use to good females that may click with his bloodlines then you may be shot down with his first litter. The stud is expected to compensate for shortcomings in the female . If something goes wrong it is the studs fault. 
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


----------



## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Ok you have to look at it as a sales person. You are competing against others who have the same idea as you. You have to be able to market your dog very well to gain attention. You have to make yours standout above the others.

1st....Check out PDB classifieds and then narrow it to U.S. You will see that there are a lot of dogs posted for this month alone as stud dogs. Read a few of them and see how they market their dog. Some have titles and some don't (eek!!) Some try to stud off of the name of the Dam & Sire while the dog has no titles and just "looks great". Reading and looking at pedigrees and what they say will give you some indications of what is out there.

2. Be honest with yourself and determine what you want to market the dog as? Is he good for sport? If so would he be good for producing ahility, flyball, etc type dogs. If so you need to start doing competitions with him in that so you can gain those titles. If you feel he would be a good stud for producing working dogs then you will need a minimum of a Sch1. Sch2 and higher would be icing on the cake. Have a hand at PSA and get a title to really help. Biggest thing that would separate you from many would be a breed survey. Many people import dogs that have a breed survey done but not many get it themselves and many dogs listed don't have it done.

3. Know your dogs bloodlines in and out. Ask around and find out from several people and not just one. Know what each dog brings and takes away and the effects of line breeding has. This will help when people ask you about it.

4. It is all about marketing!!!! Market yourself well and you will find a market. If you stud him....they will come.


I know how you feel as I plan on making my lil boy a stud but I have some titles (Sch & PSA) and a breed survey to get my hands on first.


----------



## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Here is a good example of great marketing which is trying to hide some obvious questions that should be answered.

I am sure they get people looking to breed off of looks and last name alone.

Stud Dog: 100% DDR Black Sable Stud (id: 111957) - German shepherd dog


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

he sure is a looker


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

There's different levels of studding a dog. Some people are actively campaigning a dog (posting ads, showing the dog a lot). Some people have nice males that might only get a few breedings ever but might be really nice males for those few females.

One thing that stood out to me was the OP stressing the OFAs. A stud dog or any breeding dog is WAY more than just OFA results, that should not really be the be all or end all. Of course if the dog fails, I would not breed it, but if it passes, I would not take that as THE reason to breed it. A dog needs to have way more to offer than a passing hip evaluation.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Afew years back I had a Ch/UD/HSAs/OA OFA HECT male that had produced dogs with championships or AKC performance titles. He got 6 breedings in his lifetime -- and 4 of them were to my bitches. Just something to think about.


----------



## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Jakoda....yeah he is. Good looking dog. Those OFA Fair hips though.....

Liesje....very good point.


----------



## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

really great educational thread, daphne and carmspak your posts should be especially enlightening and valuable to the OP.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

OFA fair is still OFA passing and does not mean the dog is dysplastic. You must look at the entire dog and not just one component of the dog. You also must look at the dogs littermates, 1/2 siblings, parents, grandparents, etc. 

To the OP. Dogs that can produce puppies are a dime a dozen. A dog that should be bred will be an exceptional animal. Prove that your male is worth breeding and you won't have to market him. The females will be lining up to breed to him.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ace952 said:


> Jakoda....yeah he is. Good looking dog. Those OFA Fair hips though.....
> 
> Liesje....very good point.



OFA Fair is certified FREE of dysplasia. I have not problem whatsoever breeding to OFA Fair. I would want to ensure that the bitch was at least OFA Good.

Hips are something that everyone has a big to-do about, and it is really not nearly the major issue, unless they are really bad. A dog can have chronic hip dysplasia and never show a symptom. Yes we want to do the right thing, but the difference between OFA FAIR and OFA GOOD, might be how 1 judge felt at that particular moment -- really does not mean all that much the hips are NOT dysplastic.


----------



## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Yes Fair isn't bad but I would make sure that if I mated, I would mate to a female that produced some good hips. I agree Selzer. OFA Good for sure. I did check 2 of the litter mates and I believed both were normal or (1) was normal while the other (1) was good.

Lisa...I certainly agree, you have to look at the whole picture. That in itself is hard when you dont have much to go off of.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

As breeders, though, we have to do our best to get as much of the picture as possible so we are not going into a breeding blind.


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Wow, where to I start. So much fantastic information!! Thank you everyone, it is giving me a lot to think about.

I suppose I will start with the marketed stud dog you posted. He is also related down the line to Sonar (you may or maynot have known this). First thing I saw was OFA Fair. Yikes. Which leads me into the point that stood out the most was OFA in my OP. Yes I believe that it is important to have this be better than Fair for the breed to continue to relinquish this debilitating issue. I also believe that tittles are important to show that the dogs train-ability, workmanship, etc. I plan on joining a club and working him very soon. Finding the time between training classes right now and my life and work are difficult. I want to be able to devote time once I do join a club so I am holding off until I can manage it. 

I will tell you that for the ScH and PSA I don't know. His bite drive is on the lower/medium side. It seems to be picking up though as he gets older. He did not come out of the gate with an insane drive, nor do I think one day it will flip flop and be insane (but I have no idea, this is my first GSD). So I don't know that I would market towards that (unless something changes), I am surely going to give it a try once the obedience is compete.I think my marketing would be more towards pet owners and people who want to obtain obedience and tracking tittles. I like that he is lower drive, I don't think I would have been able to handle a higher drive dog (with my current lifestyle/work schedule) but I wanted a shepherd! He does his job well and is a perfect fit into our family. He is very impressive looking, protects our home and his master, easily trainable, even temperament, happy and healthy (as far as I know, pending testing). So with that in mind and tittles behind him that's where I am headed. 

Keep in mind that I am not going to try and market him towards people who are interested in doing bite work and ScH/PSA. It would be wrong of me to do that. 

This has given me quite a bit to think about over the next several months. 

Is it wrong of me to think that I do all of the testing, get him tittled and compete with him and while at competitions someone will silicate about him or a breeder contact me with his information on PDB? I mean, honestly I am not looking at getting insane here, I am new at this and want to take it slow. So my thought was to clear him medically, and go about my titling and if someone is interested in him then great. If not then great. Learning experience and no one gets hurt. 

Thoughts on my thinking....Because sometimes thinking can be dangerous! 
-Suzanne


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Join a breed club. Join a training club. Get known to the people. Let them know you are serious about this. If someone is interested, let them see his book, which should have his pedigree, titles, etc in there and explain that you are interested. At shows, and in your club, people will be less militant against breeding than calling out at someone on the street. 

I have NEVER tried to stud out a dog. Usually people start with a bitch and find a good stud dog for the bitch -- one that is owned by a good kennel and has been bred and has produced. If I wanted to stud out a dog, I think I might do the following:

Look at tons of dogs and mentally match them to your dog -- you have to be able to see positives and negatives your dog has so you can find a bitch that complements him. Once you find someone with a bitch that looks to be a good match with your dog, approach the owner and ask her if she is willing to critique your dog. Let her see and evaluate the dog, and if she sounds like someone you might be willing to work with, ask her if she has breeding plans for her female and if she thinks they may be a good mix. Have all your dogs credentials and pedigree. 

Be aware, that many breeders have their bitch's future breeding planned out, and may not be interested in an unproven stud dog. You really have to get to know people. 

The people at clubs will travel states away to breed to the best thing going, they have the money and they do not seem to care how many Dallas progeny are running around. But there are other people at clubs too.


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Thanks Selzer.
I am surely going to join as many clubs/organizations as I can. I don't plan on really doing anything until I have tittles under my belt. I am going to try the first tittle on Oct 22nd AKC is having OB trials up here. I think I am the one who need the confidence to get the tittle haha. 

I would be related to the kennel he came from, I currently do not have breeding rights, but can purchase/contract for them once he has been medically cleared. This is what I plan to do. 

Just trying to get an idea of how to go about it if it comes to fruition. Thank you everyone for not jumping in my sh** about wanting to breed him. I appreciate all the information and respect all your opinions. :doggieplayball:


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Talk with your breeder. They might be able to help you find the right bitch to mate him to.


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

I am trying to get all my ducks in a row before even presenting the option to them. They know I am interested in full registration and being affiliated with their kennel, but I want to make sure that he will be a good contribution to the breeding program first. So we will tittle and once he is old enough get medically cleared. 

So here is my next question....

what is the most important medical certificates to have?

OFA hips/elbows for sure

Should I have him DNA tested?? 

What else??


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

DNA is required if you breed him more than three times in a year or more than seven times altogether. It costs 40$. I just sent my import bitch's DNA in, I have never DNA'd any of my other dogs. 

The next bitch I health screen, I will do Hips, Elbows, Cardiac, Thyroid, Von Wilbrand's Disease, DM and Cerf. Right now heart problems seem to be seeing a spike, and since they have a test for DM, it makes sense to check for it. I used to have them look at the spines for signs of spondylosis, etc.


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

selzer said:


> DNA is required if you breed him more than three times in a year or more than seven times altogether. It costs 40$. I just sent my import bitch's DNA in, I have never DNA'd any of my other dogs.
> 
> The next bitch I health screen, I will do Hips, Elbows, Cardiac, Thyroid, Von Wilbrand's Disease, DM and Cerf. Right now heart problems seem to be seeing a spike, and since they have a test for DM, it makes sense to check for it. I used to have them look at the spines for signs of spondylosis, etc.



Ok I called my vet and the Doctor is going to call me back and discuss it with me. 
I know the OFA can't be done until they are 2, can the other testing be done now???

Is the cardiac test just a blood test?? (the vet tech asked me)

I know I can have the Cerf done after he is 1 year old. So I will look into getting that done within the next couple of months. The Thyroid is a blood test also, right? Can that be done now?


----------



## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

selzer said:


> OFA Fair is certified FREE of dysplasia. I have not problem whatsoever breeding to OFA Fair.


I would rather breed to dog rated OFA Fair who has siblings that all passed OFA, than an OFA Excellent dog with dysplastic siblings. 

There's more to it than the individual dog's rating. Ratings of the littermates are important too.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Heidi is Fair, her sisters Jenna, Babs, Whitney, and Tori were all rated Good. 

The cardiac I did was done by a practioner who listened to their heart, the thyroid and vWd test was a blood test. I think that you can have EKG done and have that sent in, that gives you a rating listed on your cert, that the EKG was checked by the OFA. 

DM is a blood test. 

I think Thyroid is supposed to be done yearly, because they send me letters. Sorry, but there is only so many funds in the bank. I will do it once, and then I will do it if there is a problem. I do the testing at 2 years.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Do you realize there are dozens of breeders breeding for working ability that have litters where some pups are good working prospects and the rest of them are good pets good for basic obedience? If you breed for the basic obedience and pet market for your best pups, how will be the less than stellar pups? These is the reason because breeding prospect should be on the fartest end of the Gauss bell, because most of the pups you will produce will not be up to your standards, will be average and only a fraction of them will be what you really wanted to produce. It happens in every breeder program, in every litter, that is why you breed with the superior studs and not with the good ones.

Another think to consider is to remember that titling is a 10% of the equation. You have to work hard and get the best of your dog, but to keep an open mind for all you will learn in the process. You may end up putting the highest titles in the dog and 20 acronyms after his name, yet still decide not to breed him. It includes working your dog and learning from him but also participating in seminars, courses and trial and compare him with other dogs.


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

You can also get him prelimed with OFA at any age. You can get an idea as to what his hips look like right now, then do a final OFA after two years.


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Why is breeding an OFA Fair dog a "yikes?" There is a lot more to take into consideration than a fair--what are the ratings going back? Who is in the pedigree?? All these things matter. I personally don't see anything wrong with a fair (it's passing!) as long as there are strong hips in the pedigree.

I personally think if you want to be a breeder you're doing it bass ackwards. Get a female as a foundation bitch and go from there. There are a ton of males out there. IS there really anything your dog brings to the table that a breeder with a great bitch is going to want to breed to? Or will you only be breeding to the folks a few blocks away that want their girl to exeperience the "miracle of life?"

I'd worry about working and titling your dog to gain experience and learn, then in a several years get a female to start a breeding program with.


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Justine, because I suppose I only knew what I had read about OFA, never really been told to look at siblings and such. Now I know, so I take back the Yikes as longs as the siblings and relatives were fair or better. Now that several people have said this I understand. I apologize for making a haste opinion without knowing all the facts.

As far as what your saying about doing it bass ackwards, it's possible that I am. Wouldn't be the first time I've done so. haha. Which is why I am asking opinions from "the professionals." You do make a valid point about just working on Sonar and then purchasing a foundation bitch and starting there. I think I will consider this, in a few years, not now. Maybe an import DDR that will compliment Sonar. I am no way looking to breed with just anyone. I am determined to do this right. Hence asking questions so I can make the right decisions and educate myself. Thanks for your information. :hug:


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

So are you planning on becoming a full fledged breeder or just stud your dog out once? And have you talked to the breeder you got your dog from?


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Right at this moment, neither. I am looking into the future and would like to just get information so I can decide what I want to do. I have spoken to the breeder about them using him as a stud dog, health certs pending after he has some tittles under his belt. Nothing has really been discussed formally at this point. Just asking questions. 

Let me please reiterate again, I am not looking to breed him once because I love him and think he's the best dog ever! I am trying to learn what makes a stud dog a good stud dog and try and achieve this with Sonar(and understand that I may not be able to achieve this with him). I would eventually (I am 28 w/o kids so it could change or not happen until I am 40) like to become a breeder or be involved with a breeder. I am just trying to learn all I can and not just go out and buy a female and male and start pumping out puppies and call myself a breeder (BYB much?). I want to tittle dogs and learn more about the breed and once I am more comfortable with what's good and what's not, what people want and not, etc etc I will begin. Until then I am just probing for information and training my dog.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

suzzyq01 said:


> Right at this moment, neither. I am looking into the future and would like to just get information so I can decide what I want to do. I have spoken to the breeder about them using him as a stud dog, health certs pending after he has some tittles under his belt. Nothing has really been discussed formally at this point. Just asking questions.
> 
> Let me please reiterate again, I am not looking to breed him once because I love him and think he's the best dog ever! I am trying to learn what makes a stud dog a good stud dog and try and achieve this with Sonar(and understand that I may not be able to achieve this with him). I would eventually (I am 28 w/o kids so it could change or not happen until I am 40) like to become a breeder or be involved with a breeder. I am just trying to learn all I can and not just go out and buy a female and male and start pumping out puppies and call myself a breeder (BYB much?). I want to tittle dogs and learn more about the breed and once I am more comfortable with what's good and what's not, what people want and not, etc etc I will begin. Until then I am just probing for information and training my dog.


You are on the right track! :thumbup: Education is key!


----------



## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

I am trying. A lot of helpful information in this thread from knowledgeable people. Thanks to everyone so far. It's given me a lot to think about and research. I appreciate all the information.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

As a breeder, I concentrate on my females, and finding the best males available who are both compensatory and complementary to them in pedigree, conformation and character. 

There are literally hundreds of intact males in our sport whose owners would dearly like to see them bred to quality females. The decision of what males get breedings rely solely on the owners of the breeding females. And rarely does an owner go to a male who has lesser credentials than his female. I have been handed packages of information on imported titled males by their owners including everything from copies of x-rays to semen analysis in an effort to have me use the dog for breeding. I have gotten calls and emails from people with titled males who are competing offering breedings. 

If you want to use your male, you must prove him worthy of being used. Breeding is more than just buying a female and a male and making puppies. I do not keep a stud dog (although it sure would be much easier!) at this point because of the bloodlines I have and use. I may in the future. I have a male who people were always asking to breed to - usually with pet females - but did not use him for many reasons - one of which being I would not breed him to just anything just to get a stud fee.

As far as hips/elbows. I have used an OFA Fair - got 2 OFA Goods from him, plus 3 others eyeballed to be "no problems" (at Tufts and Cornell vet schools on 2 - so not just local vets). Hips are much more complicated than just the simple rating. The OFA database can really give you insights to family production.

Train your male, learn about hte breed - the character and why it is important. If you want to be a breeder down the road, start with a good good female, and breed her to the best male you can find - not the most convenient one.

Lee


----------

