# Lowest Tolerable Temperature for Doghouse at Night in Montana



## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

Hello,
I have two mixed Shepherds. 
Santo is 8 years old, part Belgian Shepherd with a long heavy coat and has had joint problems since he was a puppy.
Sativa is 10 years old, a mixed Shepherd with short hair and a medium coat. She has no joint problems and is generally quite healthy.
They are outside dogs. We built them a good insulated house with two thick dog beds. We take them out for a walk around the block twice a day. Sativa is fine walking. Santo is slow and possibly in pain but he loves walks and would be unhappy without them. I think it is good to keep the dogs moving. I give him supplements for his joint problem. 
They sleep in the doghouse. I have an indoor/outdoor thermometer in the dog house so I can see the temperature. It has not been below 20 at night inside the doghouse but it may get colder this winter. My concern is that if I bring them in my house at night (which I prefer not to because I have allergies) they will have more trouble adapting to the cold when they go out in the day.

*My question: How cold is the coldest it can be for them to sleep safely in the doghouse? *

Thanks so much! I worry and want the best for them in their later years. 
Lisa


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Are you new to MT? We had a super cold snap earlier this winter where it dropped below 0....what did you do with your dogs then? It was quite early, early enough I'd be worried my dogs' winter coats wouldn't have quite grown in yet. 

I think if your dogs are outdoor dogs, they'll grow in a good winter coat. As long as you're keeping them out of the wet and the wind they should be fine in all but freakishly sudden cold snaps (below 0 would be my best guess). But I personally wouldn't risk it, especially as they're on the older side. I wouldn't worry about them losing their ability to tolerate daytime temperatures if you bring them inside at night. You say you have allergies: is there a place inside you can let them in but keep them separate from the rest of the house? Like a mudroom, laundry room, attached garage? 

That's what I'd do anyway.  Either way, hey, another Montana person (I'm in western MT).


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Also they'll probably let you know if they're cold. I had a neighbor with a black lab who stayed outside all the time, and one night it got below 0 and he barked and barked alllllll night. He never did that before. My best guess is he was freezing.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Since they've lived outdoors their entire lives they may feel overheated in a really warm house. On the other hand a warm soft bed for old bones would be well received and much appreciated. I would choose the coolest room,maybe laundry room or porch and set up sleeping quarters there.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Back in the day, we always put a warming pad under the dog house floor, above the insulation, and put it on a probe thermometer that kept the dog houses above 30. These pads are the type used on reptile tanks.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I don't know too much about storing dogs outside in extreme winter conditions but I've seen dog houses stuffed full of straw, houses that have "back rooms" to get out of the wind and I think a light bulb has been used to keep water pump houses from freezing but that 's in perfect closed insulation.
I like the heating pad idea. Personally, I'd want my dogs inside at anything approaching freezing


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## pam (Apr 6, 2009)

I would use very deep straw as bedding outdoors. It insulates better and any moisture brought in on their coats and feet will drop through. Wet beds will make them colder. The straw breaks down over time, so it should be changed periodically to maintain loft and insulating properties. Years ago, I had to take 24 hr. call away from home so I placed appropriate sized houses inside a shed with the straw bedding and a heated water bucket as well as free choice food for that day. They had a large attached fenced exercise yard. I live in the country, so it was not a problem for neighbors. During cold snaps (we occasionally get 20-30 below wind chills) I put insulated jackets on them styled after horse blankets--mine had no problem wearing them and left them alone. Those are very reasonably priced at horse supply vendors. The rest of the time, they were indoor dogs. When I got home, their bodies were always nice and warm to touch. There should also be some sort of flap for a door covering.


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

banzai555 said:


> Are you new to MT? We had a super cold snap earlier this winter where it dropped below 0....what did you do with your dogs then? It was quite early, early enough I'd be worried my dogs' winter coats wouldn't have quite grown in yet.
> 
> I think if your dogs are outdoor dogs, they'll grow in a good winter coat. As long as you're keeping them out of the wet and the wind they should be fine in all but freakishly sudden cold snaps (below 0 would be my best guess). But I personally wouldn't risk it, especially as they're on the older side. I wouldn't worry about them losing their ability to tolerate daytime temperatures if you bring them inside at night. You say you have allergies: is there a place inside you can let them in but keep them separate from the rest of the house? Like a mudroom, laundry room, attached garage?
> 
> That's what I'd do anyway.  Either way, hey, another Montana person (I'm in western MT).


Hi. Thanks. We live in Missoula and have been here for almost 2 years. During that cold snap in October I brought the dogs in the house. There is no separate room. I do my exercises there I the morning. The plan for extreme weather is to give them their own rug and rol it up in the morning to keep the hair at bay. That room is about 65 degrees at night but I still worry about how this will affect their adaptation to the cold being indoors once in a while but for a week possibly at a time.


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

banzai555 said:


> Also they'll probably let you know if they're cold. I had a neighbor with a black lab who stayed outside all the time, and one night it got below 0 and he barked and barked alllllll night. He never did that before. My best guess is he was freezing.


Good to know. My dogs don’t bark at night unless there is someone lurking in the back alley. But if they were cold maybe they would. Actually I think they’d just stay inside their house.


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

dogma13 said:


> Since they've lived outdoors their entire lives they may feel overheated in a really warm house. On the other hand a warm soft bed for old bones would be well received and much appreciated. I would choose the coolest room,maybe laundry room or porch and set up sleeping quarters there.


I wish I could do that. But they do have thick soft beds in their house.


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

David Winners said:


> Back in the day, we always put a warming pad under the dog house floor, above the insulation, and put it on a probe thermometer that kept the dog houses above 30. These pads are the type used on reptile tanks.


Thanks. I saw a warming pad for a chicken house at our local at store. The only problem is we are already using the only electric outlet we have for a warming dish for the dogs’ water and one for our chickens’ water. And the house is too small any way, they would be leaning against the pad if if we’re on the wall and their beds are too thick to put it under them.


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

WNGD said:


> I don't know too much about storing dogs outside in extreme winter conditions but I've seen dog houses stuffed full of straw, houses that have "back rooms" to get out of the wind and I think a light bulb has been used to keep water pump houses from freezing but that 's in perfect closed insulation.
> I like the heating pad idea. Personally, I'd want my dogs inside at anything approaching freezing


Thanks. I wish I could have them inside every night. But I’ve been sick. I need to exercise and I need to breath. We have a very small house.


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

pam said:


> I would use very deep straw as bedding outdoors. It insulates better and any moisture brought in on their coats and feet will drop through. Wet beds will make them colder. The straw breaks down over time, so it should be changed periodically to maintain loft and insulating properties. Years ago, I had to take 24 hr. call away from home so I placed appropriate sized houses inside a shed with the straw bedding and a heated water bucket as well as free choice food for that day. They had a large attached fenced exercise yard. I live in the country, so it was not a problem for neighbors. During cold snaps (we occasionally get 20-30 below wind chills) I put insulated jackets on them styled after horse blankets--mine had no problem wearing them and left them alone. Those are very reasonably priced at horse supply vendors. The rest of the time, they were indoor dogs. When I got home, their bodies were always nice and warm to touch. There should also be some sort of flap for a door covering.


Thanks. Wow, that was a lot of work. And it’s great that it was successful. My dogs have really thick beds and they don’t get wet so I don’t think your system would work for them. If it gets extremely cold I’ll bring them in at night. I’m really just tying to get an idea of what must be considered their cold temperature limit.


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

Thank you everyone for your kind and caring replies. Everyone has a bit of a different situation and what worked for some people will not be possible for me. I am just trying to get a good idea of at what temperature I must bring them inside for the night. With the exception of the cold snap we had here in Montana, mentioned by Banzai555, the dog house house has stayed at 20 degrees or above at night - I check in the middle of the night with my indoor/outdoor thermometer. But it may go down into the teens before winter is over. Then I’m not sure what to do. 
thanks again for your help.
Lisa


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

At 20 degrees, I think you're already below the lower limit for what many would recommend. Even thick beds draw cold form underneath. Is the floor insulated?


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

WNGD said:


> At 20 degrees, I think you're already below the lower limit for what many would recommend. Even thick beds draw cold form underneath. Is the floor insulated?


Thanks. I hadn’t thought about the floor. It is a wood floor. Maybe we can put a skirt around the bottom. I can’t lift it up and insulate the floor now. I wonder what material would work for the skirt. Maybe the same kind of thick foam insulation we have inside. It’s the kind with the silver backing.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

A layer of refletix would make a huge difference


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I think it also depends on the laws in your area. In ours, you cannot keep a dog outside if the temperature is below 32 degrees _shrug_.


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

Galathiel said:


> I think it also depends on the laws in your area. In ours, you cannot keep a dog outside if the temperature is below 32 degrees _shrug_.


Thanks. I would imagine in the case you refer to, the law, outside is without shelter. I don’t think a doghouse is considered outside. Still, my concern is what is best for the dogs.


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

David Winners said:


> A layer of refletix would make a huge difference.
> 
> Thank you, David. I wasn’t familiar with Reflectix until you mentioned it. I looked it up online and I think it’s exactly what I need. I can put it on the floor and ceiling of the dog house, as they have no insulation now. I’m anxious to see the difference it will make.
> Lisa


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I would include the walls. Refletix is a great radiant barrier that will hold the heat from the dogs inside very well, unless you used insulation with a radiant barrier in the walls already that is.


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## LisaLynn (Dec 7, 2020)

David Winners said:


> I would include the walls. Refletix is a great radiant barrier that will hold the heat from the dogs inside very well, unless you used insulation with a radiant barrier in the walls already that is.


The walls are already insulated with 1" styrofoam insulation that has a silver backing. But the roof is metal, uninsulated. And the floor is wood, also uninsulated. I'm going to find the reflectix and start the job in the next few days. Thanks again.
Lisa


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

With an uninsulated roof and floors, the insulated walls aren't doing much other than better than nothing imo. Without an insulated floor, cold comes up and through and without an insulated roof, any heat (of which there isn't any) goes straight out. I've forgotten, is this a dog house or a building/shed? My guess is the inside temps are exactly the same as outside (minus wind chill) and below _freezing_ the dogs might survive but will suffer. I have seen wind come under a building and wave the carpets inside ....


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

20 degrees inside the doghouse is not very warm. When I went into our doghouses in the winter I could take my coat off. We had 2, one was about a foot into the ground and straw filled, the other was insulated and straw filled.

The dog house needs to be small and sealed enough that their body heat can keep it comfortable. Winter hasn’t gotten bad here yet. I’m not sure how Missoula varies to Bozeman in regards to temperature but Bozeman stays moderate compared to most places and it still gets below zero along with a decent amount of snow depending on location.

Our two outside dogs as a kid were fine all winter with the set up I mentioned even in extreme cold weather. Also 3 years ago in February all but one day was below zero where I was on the eastern side of the state, to give you an idea on how winters can get. We didn’t have outside dogs at that point though but we had in previous years.

If you don’t want to use straw I’d probably just recommend keeping your dogs indoors at night and during extreme cold in the day. Straw is bad if the dogs eat it, but dog beds are more padding rather than something the dog can nest and straw warm in. Although I’m sure having two dogs helps if they bundle up with each other.

*Do not use heating pads for outside kennels as a warning. They can catch on fire, saw it happen to our neighbor’s kennel. Thankfully no dogs were harmed.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

WNGD said:


> Personally, I'd want my dogs inside at anything approaching freezing


Agree. We have GSDs for companion dogs and companion means they are are with us - all the time - inside and out.


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