# Play rewards at articles



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What are peoples' thoughts on play rewards at articles? Like pulling the dog off the track to play for a minute, then restarting? I've never done it, just curious.


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

I am by no means a Sch vet and I'm sure others will chime in on this but I train with some veterans and "known" people in the sport, had the foundation of tracking taught to me in Kentucky. I have never seen or considered this, and have talked with a lot of experts. 

My observation for my dog would be, he's in a hunt drive when tracking. I don't want to take him out of that. Now I have a dog that is on the edge when in drive so that is more specific to him but if you want to try to bring some "value" to the track, feed at the articles or get high value treats like sardines for the end of the track. If his nirvana is the tug or ball, that's what they get. At the end.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

One woman in my club said that she would lay articles down on her patio and each time the dog reached the article she had her trainer rain treats on the dog so that the dog would be happy to keep finding the articles.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

I've seen plenty of people do this. Some people even bury a ball on the track for the dogs to find and then they play.

The only thing is if you are going to toss the ball for your dog at the article, be sure you know where other people's tracks are so you don't accidentally turn their tracks into your dog's personal playground! There is a guy in Dallas who is notorious for doing that. Packen knows who I am talking about!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have never done this AT the article, but have put random balls on a long track, played a little and then restarted my dog. Maybe Frank will see this thread since I believe he had a dog that tracked for balls on the track and not food.


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

By the way, forgot to mention that when my dog is tracking, the article is the food button.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I was thinking about using this technique not really in terms of training the track or training the articles, but using it later on sporadically and randomly to keep the track fun. I'm happy with the way I train articles, which is using food off the track, then putting them on the track once the dog already knows to find and article and platz without command, and like Freddy says my articles are food buttons, meaning they are always a safe place which = food rewards (from my pocket, not already on the track). I guess I view tracking as finding articles, so I always want the articles to be rewarding and a desirable thing for the dog to seek out. Now naturally GSDs can and will track just for the sake of tracking, but I still view my overall goal in training as training a dog to seek out articles so I was daydreaming on using a toy instead of always just food like I have done.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I need to do this as well, my dog is not real motivated to track for an article. If it was more rewarding then I think his focus and need to track would be greater. I think he'd really like to find a helper at one or two articles on his track.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Jason L said:


> I've seen plenty of people do this. Some people even bury a ball on the track for the dogs to find and then they play.
> 
> The only thing is if you are going to toss the ball for your dog at the article, be sure you know where other people's tracks are so you don't accidentally turn their tracks into your dog's personal playground! There is a guy in Dallas who is notorious for doing that. Packen knows who I am talking about!


That would be the Jackpot. In the beginning that's at the end of the foodtrack. I do that with Indra, others do it with the favorite food. 

I also have a ritual right before I take her out to track.


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

lhczth said:


> I have never done this AT the article, but have put random balls on a long track, played a little and then restarted my dog. Maybe Frank will see this thread since I believe he had a dog that tracked for balls on the track and not food.


Yes my last dopg was not a big food drive dog, so I tracked him for burried balls on the track, he would find them and dig them up, I would not play with him however as he has extreme ball drive, so he would dig them up and then lay down...I do know a lot of others that then unclip the leash, play a little, lay the dog back down, clip back on the leash and then restart the track......The possible downfall (and why I didn't play at the articles) is that the dog starts to speed to get to the articles....With balls buried, the intensity is down into the track...with ball play at the articles the intensity becomes forward on the track to get to the articles....2 very different drives....


Frank


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Frank, do you reward at the articles with your dogs that are food motivated?


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

I only ever do it after the track is over. Last article, play time, but not at each one


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Frank I had that speed problem with my other dog. I never did what I asked about earlier (popping off the track and then going back on) but I would track about 20 paces past my last article and drop a ball, or just pop one out of my pocket. The result was my dog would speed up (to the point of being too fast) as the track went on and get more anxious for the ball. Otherwise he's a very methodical, steady tracker. Not the most intense tracker but tracking has been his highest score and both of his SchH/SDA trials and he's very consistent. I had to quit using a ball at the end because by the final leg he was plowing through like a freight train dragging me down the track.


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## t.lesniak (Jan 4, 2010)

If my dog is showing a little too much pressure on the track, i will pop the ball and play at the article. But that session I will lay two or three short tracks and make the only article the end of the track. I will lay the next track, with a new flag, a short distance from the end of the previous one (so I have enough room to play) then start my new track. My dog really enjoys these motivational tracks and comes out strong the next session.


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

lhczth said:


> Frank, do you reward at the articles with your dogs that are food motivated?


 With ALL my dogs (food drive or not) I reward with food at the articles, they need to get paid for indicating the article.


When I say my last dog did no have high food drive, I mean if he looses the track, he will look for it for 10-15 seconds and then give up. So, I had 2 choices with that dog, motivate him or make him... I always choose to motivate, so that when he got lost he would never quit....But he would always eat the food I would give him as a reward at the articles....


Frank


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Frank I had that speed problem with my other dog. I never did what I asked about earlier (popping off the track and then going back on) but I would track about 20 paces past my last article and drop a ball, or just pop one out of my pocket. The result was my dog would speed up (to the point of being too fast) as the track went on and get more anxious for the ball. Otherwise he's a very methodical, steady tracker. Not the most intense tracker but tracking has been his highest score and both of his SchH/SDA trials and he's very consistent. I had to quit using a ball at the end because by the final leg he was plowing through like a freight train dragging me down the track.


 I had the same with one dog...I would just "give" him the ball and let him carry it off the field on leash at the end, but no throwing or playing.....The dog I have now, I play with and throw the ball (because he can control his speed himself still on the track)


Frank


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

t.lesniak said:


> If my dog is showing a little too much pressure on the track, i will pop the ball and play at the article. But that session I will lay two or three short tracks and make the only article the end of the track. I will lay the next track, with a new flag, a short distance from the end of the previous one (so I have enough room to play) then start my new track. My dog really enjoys these motivational tracks and comes out strong the next session.


 One thing you might try (so he never knows when it is) when he gets to the first article, feed, then unclip the leash (a physical cue that you will play) leave the leash laying on the track, take him off the track and play, then go back and lay him back down on the leash, reclip the leash and then restart......I'm afraid that doing as you say "could" create speed problems as the reward is always at the end of the track, so to the dog the goal is to get to the end, not rewards can be anywhere ON the track...

JMHO, maybe something to keep in the back of your mind in case....


Frank


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## t.lesniak (Jan 4, 2010)

Thank you, Frank.
I only use this method on once or twice a year, so it has not cause problems yet. But will likely switch to a method like you described next time I play in the middle of a tracking session.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Do you train your dogs outside the track on the articles? I've seen quite a few people clickertraining it. They throw an article and then have the dog down on it.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

That is how I train articles. Pan learned articles off the track when he was 4 months, but his actual tracking is not yet to the point that there are articles on the track.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

schh3fh2 said:


> With ALL my dogs (food drive or not) I reward with food at the articles, they need to get paid for indicating the article.
> 
> 
> When I say my last dog did no have high food drive, I mean if he looses the track, he will look for it for 10-15 seconds and then give up. So, I had 2 choices with that dog, motivate him or make him... I always choose to motivate, so that when he got lost he would never quit....But he would always eat the food I would give him as a reward at the articles....
> ...


I was mostly curious because you said that you would not want to play ball at the article because it would make the article too important (or something like that). I have run into the issue with my guys trying to drag me to articles for their food reward.


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

lhczth said:


> I was mostly curious because you said that you would not want to play ball at the article because it would make the article too important (or something like that). I have run into the issue with my guys trying to drag me to articles for their food reward.


as you know all dogs are different...with Cayos I did not play at the articles or when he dug up the balls because his ball drive is so extreme that I wouldn't be able to get him back to nice concentrated tracking...But I could give him food at the articles....I also gave him food for outing the ball after he dug it up and "unloaded" on it before I would restart him on the track....I think speed problems come when the dogs motivation is too high forward on the track and not down into the track...JMHO

Frank


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I agree. That is why there is NO ball on the track for my male. He gets a can of sardines at the end or we just end on an article. His sister can have the ball at the end, but she just gets to carry. No throwing.


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## RealityDreamer (Sep 29, 2005)

Jason L said:


> I've seen plenty of people do this. Some people even bury a ball on the track for the dogs to find and then they play.
> 
> The only thing is if you are going to toss the ball for your dog at the article, be sure you know where other people's tracks are so you don't accidentally turn their tracks into your dog's personal playground! There is a guy in Dallas who is notorious for doing that. Packen knows who I am talking about!


Jason L,
I'm not from Dallas but that sounds a little bit like me 
In OUR possible defense, we are trying to train the other handler's dog up for the FH...they just don't know it yet  lol jk

Anyway, with the ball, I am not crazy about that idea but I guess depends on the individual dog's drive. Just my $0.02


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