# In Need Of Help A.S.A.P.



## ruswifey (Jul 1, 2015)

Hi everyone my name is Elena and I have a 1 1/2 year old half shepard half husky mix named Luna. She is so intelligent and is wonderful with me but not with other people. She is impossible at the vet, even muzzled with two leashes on and four people trying to restrain her they were not able to do so to examine her. She is very aggressive with people she does not know and she has started biting my children as well. She jumps up at them and nips at their face, their ankles and their arms even if they are only walking past. It has gotten to the point where we are thinking that our only recourse may be to put her down because we are worried that the aggression with our children will escalate. Anyone that can offer some advice I would greatly appreciate it.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Nothing the internet can off you with this situation. You need to get a GOOD (meaning lots of experience with difficult breeds) behaviorist to help you figure out what motivates this behavior and to develop a plan to change it. That can only be done with a one on one, in person session or more. There really is nothing that someone can offer you over the internet. Ask your vet for a good reference for a behaviorist/trainer.

You need to do this sooner rather than later.

Good luck.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I guess I should have given a reason. Your dog is displaying pretty extreme behaviors and you need to change what you are doing to extinguish those behaviors sooner rather than later. Biting children the manner you describe seems to be very extreme especially when combined with "aggression toward strangers" and the impossible behavior at the vet. This is has he potential for becoming very dangerous behavior.... and ultimately very expensive when the consequence come down.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

No matter what Elena, don't let her bite your kids. Whatever the reason, keep her far enough from the kids that she can't nip or bite them in any way. Whether its just play or something worse, a bite is a bite and there's nothing ok about it.


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## ruswifey (Jul 1, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> No matter what Elena, don't let her bite your kids. Whatever the reason, keep her far enough from the kids that she can't nip or bite them in any way. Whether its just play or something worse, a bite is a bite and there's nothing ok about it.


She has been moved to the garage and is being crated there until we can figure out what we are going to do. She's a very large dog and after I saw the way that she behaved at the vet office I saw just how much damage she can do if she really wants to. Worst of all, the child who's face she jumped up at and tried to nip is already blind in one eye from a cataract at birth so we cannot risk her losing vision in her one good eye. Our kids have been told to stay away from her because it isn't safe, she bite them through the crate when we had her crated in the living room so that isn't enough of a barrier either. This is a heartbreaking truly terrifying situation and it is so hard to face just how dangerous it has become because she is so great with me. I have mobility issues and I was training her to be my service dog before the aggression issues arose. She picks up new tasks so easily but she just isn't trustworthy around anyone but me and I'm not sure why as she grew up around my children and used to be great with them


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I wonder if she is guarding you. 

But regardless of the reason, I agree you need professional help and the sooner the better.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

You need an animal behaviorist. There is a great guy in SD but I'm sure that's to far to go


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

As others have said - get with an experienced behaviorist ASAP. Verify their experience and require they are experienced with GSD and working dogs.

The behaviorist will most likely require a complete vet check and complete bloodwork done. Discuss with your vet the possibilities of sedation. If vet suggests using ACE, request Valium instead. ACE leaves their mind active which can lead to another set of problems later. 

Post where you are located; someone may be able to recommend a trainer/behaviorist near by.


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## ruswifey (Jul 1, 2015)

Twyla said:


> As others have said - get with an experienced behaviorist ASAP. Verify their experience and require they are experienced with GSD and working dogs.
> 
> The behaviorist will most likely require a complete vet check and complete bloodwork done. Discuss with your vet the possibilities of sedation. If vet suggests using ACE, request Valium instead. ACE leaves their mind active which can lead to another set of problems later.
> 
> Post where you are located; someone may be able to recommend a trainer/behaviorist near by.


I'm in Northern California. The vet did suggest sedation but the problem is him being able to get close enough to sedate her. I muzzled her and she had two leashes on her and even with me leaving the room and three other people trying to assist him he couldn't touch her. She was thrashing and growling and snapping and he was worried that he would get bitten. I had a similiar experience at another vet that I took her to. I can't seem to find one that knows how to deal with large aggressive dogs. I thought that with her being muzzled they should be able to examine her she can't bite with the muzzle on but both vets said they couldn't do it. Her having the muzzle on makes her tense up and react but they said they are not comfortable approaching her without the muzzle on because she isn't giving them a warning she just snaps.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Where abouts in Nor Cal?


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## ruswifey (Jul 1, 2015)

mspiker03 said:


> Where abouts in Nor Cal?


We are in Sacramento


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Elena, even with help, are you sure this is something you want to do? Are you sure you want to try and fit this dog with your family?


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## ruswifey (Jul 1, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> Elena, even with help, are you sure this is something you want to do? Are you sure you want to try and fit this dog with your family?


I'm not sure if we will ever be able to trust her with the children and that's a major problem. I don't know what other options I have though as I know she is not able to be rehomed the way that she is and it makes me so sad to think about having her euthanized. I'm at a loss as to what to do at this point.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Again with the reiteration of getting a behaviorist, experienced one, if you are going to try to manage this.. in the mean time, I do have some questions..

What kind of muzzle are you using on her? How long have you had her? Is this a new behavior or a progressive one? And she is absolutely not aggressive with you correct?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

There is a very good, very experienced trainer in Vallejo who would be capable of evaluating her. Her name is Lisa Maze, here is a link to her website: Muttamorphosis

Lisa is in high demand, so she's very busy and can be difficult to get ahold of, but I would personally trust her assessment. She has experience with working dogs (she breeds Belgian Malinois), and reactivity and aggression. She's had many GSD clients.

I do agree with Steve, however, that even with help this may not be a fixable situation for you. I know it's difficult to think of euthanasia, but if you can't keep your kids safe and she can't be rehomed, I think you need to prepare yourself for that possibility.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Charles Wong is in Elk Grove and has lots of experience with protection breeds.


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## ruswifey (Jul 1, 2015)

wyoung2153 said:


> Again with the reiteration of getting a behaviorist, experienced one, if you are going to try to manage this.. in the mean time, I do have some questions..
> 
> What kind of muzzle are you using on her? How long have you had her? Is this a new behavior or a progressive one? And she is absolutely not aggressive with you correct?


I don't own a muzzle the ones that were put on her were at the vet office. The first one was cloth and then they had me switch it out for a leather one. One of the biggest problems is that because I have been training her to be my service dog she is very skilled when it comes to using her paws and manipulating objects so even though I had it snugly on her she was pulling at it with her paw and tugging it right off. I've had her since she was eight weeks old and she's now fourteen months old. She was very mouthy as a puppy but she has never shown the slightest bit of aggression towards me. She has growled and snapped at my husband as well as my children. The vet thought perhaps she was trying to protect me but when I left the examination room she still wouldn't allow them to touch her. It seems as though this is a progressive behavior. It is probably partially my fault as I couldn't work with her as much as I would have liked when she was a puppy because I became pregnant and was put on bedrest and then was going back and forth to the nicu to see our premature son. My husband said that she was nippy when she was younger I always thought she was just playing with the kids but there was probably much I missed with my pregnancy. He also said that she has growled at the kids and was trying to bite them that it was not play mouthing so it seems that now that she is bigger it has become worse and very aggressive. I was frankly shocked when I saw the way that she reacted when she went to the vet two months ago and this past week when I took her back she was even worse so it has definitely escalated. Also, as the vet mentioned she doesn't give any warning that she's going to bite she just goes for it. That's how she's gotten my children as well I've seen them walk past and her snap and wrap her mouth around an entire ankle or arm. She hasn't broken the skin yet but I can see her doing some serious damage after the vet experience. Also, she was on leash the time she jumped at my half blind daughters face or she would have likely done serious damage. She jumped up on her back legs ad I saw her teeth snap shut hard about 1/2 inch from her eyes and nose. She rarely growls so there is no warning of what's coming. Once I saw that I realized my husband was right and we had a serious problem.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> There is a very good, very experienced trainer in Vallejo who would be capable of evaluating her. Her name is Lisa Maze, here is a link to her website: Muttamorphosis
> 
> Lisa is in high demand, so she's very busy and can be difficult to get ahold of, but I would personally trust her assessment. She has experience with working dogs (she breeds Belgian Malinois), and reactivity and aggression. She's had many GSD clients.
> 
> I do agree with Steve, however, that even with help this may not be a fixable situation for you. I know it's difficult to think of euthanasia, but if you can't keep your kids safe and she can't be rehomed, I think you need to prepare yourself for that possibility.



+1 and also like Lisa. I drove 3 hrs each way to train with her for a bit. She has also worked training service dogs.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

ruswifey said:


> I don't own a muzzle the ones that were put on her were at the vet office. The first one was cloth and then they had me switch it out for a leather one. One of the biggest problems is that because I have been training her to be my service dog she is very skilled when it comes to using her paws and manipulating objects so even though I had it snugly on her she was pulling at it with her paw and tugging it right off. I've had her since she was eight weeks old and she's now fourteen months old. She was very mouthy as a puppy but she has never shown the slightest bit of aggression towards me. She has growled and snapped at my husband as well as my children. The vet thought perhaps she was trying to protect me but when I left the examination room she still wouldn't allow them to touch her. It seems as though this is a progressive behavior. It is probably partially my fault as I couldn't work with her as much as I would have liked when she was a puppy because I became pregnant and was put on bedrest and then was going back and forth to the nicu to see our premature son. My husband said that she was nippy when she was younger I always thought she was just playing with the kids but there was probably much I missed with my pregnancy. He also said that she has growled at the kids and was trying to bite them that it was not play mouthing so it seems that now that she is bigger it has become worse and very aggressive. I was frankly shocked when I saw the way that she reacted when she went to the vet two months ago and this past week when I took her back she was even worse so it has definitely escalated. Also, as the vet mentioned she doesn't give any warning that she's going to bite she just goes for it. That's how she's gotten my children as well I've seen them walk past and her snap and wrap her mouth around an entire ankle or arm. She hasn't broken the skin yet but I can see her doing some serious damage after the vet experience. Also, she was on leash the time she jumped at my half blind daughters face or she would have likely done serious damage. She jumped up on her back legs ad I saw her teeth snap shut hard about 1/2 inch from her eyes and nose. She rarely growls so there is no warning of what's coming. Once I saw that I realized my husband was right and we had a serious problem.


Have you contacted any of the trainers mentioned above to help you?

Also, I am not hugely familiar with muzzles but everything I have read on the subject (my Boerboel had to wear one at the vets, so I did a little reading) is that cloth muzzles restrict and are typically more stressful for the dog, hence they are used at the vets for quick appointments, or when someone properly introduced them. I have read that basket muzzles are less stressful because they don't restrict the dogs mouth. They can pant, take treats, etc. They just can't bite. 

It might be a good idea to do some research on one and see if you can introduce her to a basket muzzle, to at least have on her when anyone other than you is around her. I know she is being kept in the kennel out in the garage, but I think it will ease your tension knowing that she has a good muzzle on and can't hurt anyone, biting at least. I hope that someone here can direct you to a training, no one on here is going to be able to truly help with your situation because we arent' there. IMO I don't think rehoming her is going to happen, not now.. unless it's with someone who has the experience and is well aware of the situation.. if you took her to a rescue, she would likely be put down.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Hey Elena, don't depend on a muzzle protecting your kids. Dogs can still do some damage when they're wearing one. From what you're saying, I get the idea you're more like her security blanket, everything else is a threat to her. She strikes out when something or someone enters her 'safe zone'. 

A trainer can help you teach her some things and show you some of how to control her and avoid situations through management, but they can't change her temperament. Even when she may have some ability through training to behave, you'll still always have to be very aware and careful.


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