# really want to start feeding raw but nervous!!



## Tommy5144 (Mar 15, 2011)

Back story...

I have a West German Show pure GSD from very solid lines. Unfortunately he had Parvo  He survived! But has had diarrhea ever since...

He is 12 weeks old. I have been to the vet and after talking to him, and my own research, and going to switch the pup to Raw. Currently I am feeding him rice and chicken to try to ease his stomach and get the diarrhea to go away...and my vet suggested wean him back into Kibble. 

I would much rather ween him straight into a raw diet. The only problem is I am worried I won't do it right (a general worry it seems through the boards)..

What do I feed and how much?? I am reading on the rawdogranch...

It is suggested that he be fed 
45% Raw Meaty Bones
50% Muscle Meat
5% Organ Meat

Do you boil the meat at all even slightly if u are worried about bacteria?? How about supplementing joints/etc? (longevity by springtime?) 

Any help is very appreciated!! here is my pup right now!!


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## Tommy5144 (Mar 15, 2011)

Also...any raw feeders in the Richmond VA area?? What sources do you guys use? I have a friend who hunts deer and always has extra but I need more than just that.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Aw sorry about the Parvo. That sucks. I'm glad he's ok now. 

I'm a big fan of raw and the percentages you listed are what I use. Only I also feed yogurt & raw eggs. I used this link to determine how much to feed Calculate


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

Your pup is super cute! Sorry to hear about the parvo. 

Since you are new to feeding raw, I'd suggest feeding Bravo - give it a couple of weeks and see how it goes. 
Here's a link that might be helpful, I don't know your zip code and can't look up your nearest retailer. 
Bravo! - The Diet Designed by Nature for Healthy Dogs and Cats

I'd start with just chicken for a week- 
Then maybe turkey the next week-
Beef etc.

When you are comfortable, then you should look into buying a chest freezer- 
Find a raw coop in your area, yahoo groups is great source.


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## Tommy5144 (Mar 15, 2011)

I have fed him premade complete raw before. Stella and Chewy's Duck Duck Goose? 

He enjoys it and gobbles it right up. I have enough to last a little while longer (probably 2 weeks worth)...should I keep him on that and then switch into RMB, MM, and Organs?

Do you boil at all?


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

I don't cook anything for my puppy. Everything is given to him raw.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Is the pup off of all medication from his illness?

Raw feeding can be an ideal diet for most dogs, but those who are taking antibiotics should be fed a cooked/kibble diet for the duration of their treatment.

This is because the antibiotics kill much of the natural protection that the dog has against pathogens in the raw food. So, you want to wait until the dog has completely recovered from that, and ideally, supplemented with probiotics to restore the "good bacteria" in the gut.

Once the dog is healthy, there should be little concern about bacteria.
Bacteria is present on nearly everything dogs come into contact with. 

A dog that is fed a raw diet modeled on nature is not at any real risk of being sickened from their diet [with a few caveats]. The short digestive tract ensures quick passage of food through the dog, preventing the colonization of bacteria, which needs time.

The gut pH of a raw fed dog is designed not just to digest sinewy meat and bones, but to kill pathogens.

There are issues with dogs who are fed a mixed diet of raw and kibble. No doubt, I will have people who disagree with me on this, but I will simply state my point of view, and leave it to you to do your own research and make a decision.

Kibble is often very high in carbohydrates. Carbohydrates and protein are broken down during digestion in different ways, with entirely different pH levels. When dogs are fed kibble, it alters the pH of their digestive tract, to allow for the digestion of the carbohydrates contained in the food. The pH becomes lower, removing the very protections against bacteria that the naturally high pH of a carnivore would have killed off.

Most dogs do fine on a diet of mixed raw and kibble, but my personal feeling is that you are taking an unnecessary risk in mixing them. My own dog did fine for quite some time, before becoming seriously ill as a result of the mix. If a bacteria enters the dog's digestive tract, and that tract has a lower pH as a result of digesting carbohydrates, that bacteria has a higher likelihood of surviving in the gut and leading to a bacterial infection, as it did in my dog.

So, my suggestion to raw feeders is to ensure that the dog has all their natural advantages to digest the raw food before you begin feeding.

I would also make sure that you do not begin feeding raw until your dog has solid stool.
This is less a health concern, and more a practical one.

One of the ways we determine that the ratios of RMB/MM/Organ are correct is by observing stool. The percentages given in the OP are a good starting point, but every dog is unique and there is usually a little bit of adjusting different amounts of each to accommodate the dog's needs.

If the dog begins with already soft stool, you have no clear way of knowing whether the mixture is wrong for the dog, the dog cannot tolerate the protein source [which does happen in some dogs], or the dog still simply has diarrhea from the previous illness.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Boiling will take away natural enzymes and nutrients. I would give some digestive enzymes and probiotics along with the Stella & Chewy's premade for a couple weeks. 
By then the gut should be back to normal(flora) and you can start with the raw diet including RMB's, MM, OM.
I also would get some fresh(frozen) green tripe as it has many benefits and dogs that have been ill or are compromised do well with it.
I hope your baby thrives now that he is over that nasty parvo!


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## Tommy5144 (Mar 15, 2011)

Thank you so much everyone!!

I am currently going to feed him boiled rice and chicken until the diarrhea is gone and then a slow transition to raw using Stella's as the middle before going DIY raw. 

My question for SchDDR... you state not to go to raw until he has solid stool. Last time i did rice and chicken his stool got firm and a little wet, but as soon as i switched him back to kibble....back to diarrhea. Any suggestions this time when switching to raw??

Thank you again everyone


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

I would keep him on the chicken and rice until his stool is firm [a little wet is somewhat expected given the soupy nature of his food], and then transition from that diet to Stella's as you've planned.

If he's off all the medications, you can start supplementing with probiotics now, to help that process along.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I am always afraid I will do it wrong also. So I buy from Oma's...they take the guess work out of it. And the green tripe will help get the stomach and digestive tract back on track. They have a distributor in Richmond. It is worth looking into.

Distributors - Oma's Pride Raw Pet Food


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## Tommy5144 (Mar 15, 2011)

SchDDR said:


> I would keep him on the chicken and rice until his stool is firm [a little wet is somewhat expected given the soupy nature of his food], and then transition from that diet to Stella's as you've planned.
> 
> If he's off all the medications, you can start supplementing with probiotics now, to help that process along.


The Vet gave me probiotics to put on his chicken and rice while feeding him. He is on anti-inflamatory as well for his intestines incase they are inflammed from the Parvo still. I assume this is fine correct?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

What anti-inflammatory is he on? That could be the cause of the runny poo, too.


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## Tommy5144 (Mar 15, 2011)

It was runny prior to the anti-inflammatory, he gave that to aid it i believe. His stool is a lot better now that he has been on boiled chicken and rice for a few days. I am going to do 2 more days of this and a slow transition to Stella and Chewy's complete raw. 

My friend who hunts said he has a chest full of deer meat he wants to get rid of too. Good for MM i assume?


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Tommy5144 said:


> My friend who hunts said he has a chest full of deer meat he wants to get rid of too. Good for MM i assume?


Score! Take all of it if you have the room.


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## Tommy5144 (Mar 15, 2011)

Also another question about buying in bulk....I live in an apartment, its a large one but def not large enough for an extra freezer. Now...my entire freezer is more or less empty because I dont each much frozen food. I assume this is plenty of room to buy some meat in bulk and save it for him correct?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Bulk is usually 30# boxes. Is there anyone you can go in on meat with and split it up?


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## Tommy5144 (Mar 15, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Bulk is usually 30# boxes. Is there anyone you can go in on meat with and split it up?


Unfortunately I am new to the area (Richmond) and don't have any friends let alone anyone with dogs. My friends back home which is only 2 hours away would never feed raw...they are too...dumb honestly. (an example is my friend neutered his lab at like 4-5 months of age...and thinks im insane for having spent so much on my dog and driven 6 hours away for him)

I joined the Yahoo group for raw feeding so hopefully that will help. Waiting for moderator approval.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Tommy5144 said:


> Also another question about buying in bulk....I live in an apartment, its a large one but def not large enough for an extra freezer. Now...my entire freezer is more or less empty because I dont each much frozen food. I assume this is plenty of room to buy some meat in bulk and save it for him correct?



No, that's not enough room if you want to buy in bulk. Be like me and stick a chest freezer in your living room.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I was going to suggest a chest freezer too. Where ever it will fit in your apt. I will caution you with the venison. I feed it at times too. We are hunters. Too much will cause diarrhea, especially if the dog has never had it before. Tiny pieces at first, until the dog gets used to it. Then you can feed a very small amount with every meal. You can let it thaw enough to cut up. If it has already been packaged for human consumption, that is better. It will be in small packages. This season if you are offered meat, just make small packages of it already cut up. Buy a vacuum sealer and it will keep for years.


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## Tommy5144 (Mar 15, 2011)

Thanks for all the help from everyone. I went to my local grocer to buy stuff for myself, and say that they had chicken leg 1/4s for 60 cents a pound, and chicken backs for very cheap as well. I assume these are actually good prices based on what I have read correct?


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

That price is excellent for a grocery store. I'm jealous.


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## Tommy5144 (Mar 15, 2011)

Just pulled the trigger. Mixed some raw chicken leg with his premade Stella and Chewy's raw...and he ate it all  Gonna slowly transition him


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