# Comments on and expectations from this litter by jinopo: art ze sumavske doling X ...



## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

Hello people just put a deposit on the pick of this litter: art ze sumavske doliny X tana jirkova dvora by jinopo....

What are your thoughts on this breeding? Anything in particular these lines are known for? What are these dogs and parents like? Will they be suited for personal protection? What about nerves? Working drives? What do you expect out of such a breeding?

Please comment....


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Join AlpineK9's forum - you will get more information there on this breeding.


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## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

Already joined, searched and posted, nothing over there...


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Oh good. It's not an active board, but they will respond in time. You could private message Hans and I know he will get back to you as well. He's always been good about replying to inquiries.


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## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

Thanks a lot


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Your pup would belong to the 2nd and 3rd bloodline. You can expect a harder, PP type dog, who is dominant, but the third line brings in more versitility with some drive, so it's going to depend on the pup in regards to how the dog responds to obedience/handling - could be higher drive with good endurance. The second line is known for producing good tracking dogs as well. I would expect this breeding to bring a harder dog more truer to the 2nd line than the third in my opinion.. but I am still learning so.... LOL.


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## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

Wow thanks, sounds exactly like what jiri said, I was hoping for English though... Well some of it at least, what does it mean for my dog to belong to the second or third line? And how do you determine whether it's third or second?

With much noobness,
Ahmad


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## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

Also, how do you know about the dogs in the third and second line? Or do you know the dogs themselves?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I will PM you the link that taught me that... LOL


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

please pm me too or just post it here.

can't really add more than elisabeth said but a high level sport dog i think not, generally speaking i beleive these lines are less prey driven and to some elite trainers would consider lacking work ethic - but that is relative.

the obvious question in these type of posts is why did you put a deposit down on a litter you know absolutely nothing about - nice colour, breeder said they were awesome?? 

this is how many well bred dogs end up in rescues.

btw its an old breeder trick to let every customer think they got the pick of the litter


nice mating, good luck.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Yes, I definitely agree about this litter not being a "sporty" type at all. There could be potential for a sport dog in that litter if handled by the right trainer, but I don't think you will get podium dogs out of this just based on pedigree. I see a lot of real PP/LEO type dogs. Might also be nice for SAR to be honest, if handled properly.


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## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

X11,

This is why I hesitated before posting, I anticipated someone replying like that...

It is really hard getting a dog to Jordan, I spoke to 20 breeders, extensively I might add, for the past year at least... I tried researching the lines etc.. In the end it was a very long process that did not exactly yield results, I simply don't have the knowledge to predict how litters would turn put, from the looks of it neither do you, we are exactly on the same page, actually I believe I am now ahead of you when it comes to blood lines since I got and read the link first. So anyways I changed my search criteria and tarted looking for the most honest breeder, jinopo was a top 3 choice... I told him what I wanted exactly and he recommended this breeding, btw he described the dogs exactly as Elisabeth did, in all honesty though he promised extreme prey drive, which I asked for. Believe you me I know a lot about the dogs as individuals, but like I said nothing of what they could produce (neither do you), except for what jiri told me , so I asked just to confirm and to check whether other people agreed. Besides breeders know their dogs best, I don't see why is wrong for me to count on an honest breeder to give me exactly what I ask for rather than researching the line myself and failing at it nine times out of ten :s

Finally the dog will not end up in a rescue, for one I asked for this type of dog and two there are no revues round here.

I believe you have been pwned,


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## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

I also think that you should show some more respect to jiri and not accuse him of tricking me into thinking he sold me the pick just to get extra money, remember he sold me the pick as per my description of my perfect dog, if he sold another pick with a whole different criteria that's not tricking me, he still gives me priority over someone after the same dog...


2-0 I believe


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

whats pwned???

and yr wrong i do know more than you, researched my pups lines, breeder back to moses and got exactly what i predicted so why come off all antsy cos i told you what i know about the lines which was verified by elisabeth in a follow up post - i knew what my dog as much as anyone can know a mating before i even thought about a deposit - i asked the same questions you asked BEFORE i chose the mating. so please don't put on the same page unless you got a dog as good as mine and suit yr lifestyle as good as mine does.

a simple thnks for yr opinion x and thanks bothering to post on yr thread would have been enough.

sheesh some people.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Aalshab - I wouldn't take comments too literally here... just read and move on. 

Every breeder is going to have some people who are not fans or what-have-you, just ignore it and be happy with your choice.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I think Aalshab took your words the wrong way - language barrier possibly?

Anyways, let's get back to talking DOGS!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Lol...where's codmaster when you need him? He'd explain what pwned means...


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

I baby-sat a 6 month old puppy..Art x Hanach Jipo-me just recently. Cooldog. Gorgeous. Incredible focus..wants to please and on the go! No fears, exposed him to horse, canoes, took him out and about..no problem. I really liked him. 

Not able to comment on qualities of "hard, personal protection vs sport " , although I would say not a sporty type. He strikes me of more a serious type dog..and I am just an amateur, took care of him for a week.

Hanach Jipo-me has her own facebook page if you want to see the puppies.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

That was a nice breeding - I am following them on FB as well.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> That was a nice breeding - I am following them on FB as well.


 Yes, nice puppies. I wouldnt mind one for myself!! The puppy I baby sat had really nice natural , "genetic" if you will, obedience. Gorgeous tuck- sit, laser-focus, and animated focused heeling. What a guy!


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

That is my favorite when it is just natural... Zef is like that.. not anything I did (cause I wouldn't know how to get it even if I wanted it..LMAO)! 

I really like these lines, nice pups - would like to be able to 'follow' them and see how they develop. 

You should bring one home and post their adventures here for me to live through.. LOL


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

x11 said:


> yeah i am hoping language barrier for the dramatics, anyhoo at this stage i think rude person and i don't even know what pwned is, some internet tough guy thing i guess.
> 
> dogs is all i want to talk about.


I like much of what you say, and personally I like blunt and to the point. However, this isn't a phone and sometimes your choice of abbreviations is slightly off-putting. Like...."yr".


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> That is my favorite when it is just natural... Zef is like that.. not anything I did (cause I wouldn't know how to get it even if I wanted it..LMAO)!
> 
> I really like these lines, nice pups - would like to be able to 'follow' them and see how they develop.
> 
> You should bring one home and post their adventures here for me to live through.. LOL


The gal who owns this particular puppy is planning on doing some tracking and going to the club with us..so maybe I can talk her into posting how he is doing!


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Definitely tell her to post.. LOL... would definitely be interested in keeping tabs on one of them.


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## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

Wow elisabeth thanks for the link, I finally understand...

as for pwned... Urban Dictionary: pwned

Ponyfarm, thanks a lot. The litter I'm getting the pup from is a repeated breeding, actually I was looking to hear from someone with first hand experience, wish my turns out that way, he sounds real nice... i guess this willingness to please comes more from the the jipo-mes...


if anyone is interested below is the criteria I sent to the breeder before being recommended this litter, I honestly believe that he thinks this breeding is best suited for me, I have been in touch with him for months and thats his first recommendation, anyways there you go:

TEMPERAMENT:
a. Very high energy, very high drives and very intense.
b. High avoidance threshold
c. Retrieve drive
d. Decent civil potential
e. Can take a correction + Forgiving if corrected
f. Test negative for gun shyness
g. Very Hard
h. Serious
i. Nerves of steel
j. Highly eager to please his handler and to interact with him.
k. No history of handler aggression in his pedigree.
l. Absolutely fearless
m. Recover quickly from stress if any.
n. Confident with a temperament independent of the surroundings. 
o. Has fight drive potential
p. Resilient and perfectly clear headed. 
q. Defensive drive present in pedigree and transferred to progeny 
r. Imprinted for bite work 
s. Worked in prey drive since young
t. Environmentally sound/high environmental thresholds/ not phased by new environments
u. High food drive
v. Extremely high- malinois like -energy!
w. Oozing in confidence.
x. Rock solid nerves.
y. Looking forward to work
z. Highly motivated
aa. GENETIC predeposition to full grips and hard counters, preferably a shaking head. 
bb. Ability to identify threats when present; not strong nerved enough to get locked in prey drive, i.e. being able to perceive a threat and thus act in their defensive drive.
cc. Extremely and easily motivated.
dd. High food drive
ee. High guarding tendencies.
ff. Dominant
gg. OFA or equivalent certified parents. 
hh. Prefers to interact with humans over other dogs.
TYPE:

- large blocky head with a typical stud expression.

- thick bones.

- dark and rich black sable. 


The pup will be used for sports competition, OB and above all personal protection, I am not very interested in tracking. 

cheers,


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I think you have put down a deposit on a nice match for the type of dog you stated you wanted. Jiri has produced countless police type dogs over the years, so it was a smart move to go to that source for your needs. Still, it is not guarantee that the individual pup will express the outward expression of these lines in terms of elements you desire....but I like your odds. I would have done things like you if I lived in Jordan....Good Luck!


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## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

Thanks Cliffson, opinion is really what I was looking for especially from experienced people like yourself


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I know, but all opinions are equal on this board, so I am sure you will get some soon.


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## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

Cliffson I am not sure whether you are aware but this is a repeat breeding, do you know anyone with a dog from the last litter?

I am familiar with Art's qualities but how do I validate his ability to transfer these qualities to his progeny?


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Validate it? Hmm..The puppy I mentioned could probably be what you are looking for with proper training. The reputable breeder you are purchasing from believes it will be what you want. Other dogs of similar lines are what you want..thus..


It will probably be what you want and you get to validate it with your own puppy!!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I have not seen any progeny, I am not sure how you can know....I used to think genetics, but many feel that if you don't view the parents you really can't project what you will get. So I'm not much help as I haven't seen the parents.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I am with Cliff on this one - going by "paper" alone, I think you can get exactly what you are looking for. This litter has the potential for that.


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## Aalshab (Oct 7, 2012)

Thanks people


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