# Do You Correct People in Public?



## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

I just got followed about 50ft down the sidewalk by an off leash Great Dane puppy. Cute lil' bugger, though clearly an oblivious owner. The owner called over and over for the dog to come back but it just kept padding along next to me. 

I was on my phone and ignored both her and the puppy and kept walking back towards my place. The puppy just followed along like it and I were out for a walk. Realizing the puppy wasn't going to leave me I finally stopped and stood there waiting for the owner to come to us. 

Attempting to be friendly I said, "Might be time to invest in a leash." The lady held up her hand and said, "I've got one right here." Meanwhile the pup began jumping up on my legs. I stepped back and said, "That's the thing with leashes though, they don't do much good unless they're attached." 

Apparently I was seriously over stepping my bounds because she gave me the meanest look. She snapped the leash on the puppy and took off back down the sidewalk without another word. 

All this to ask, do you correct people in public?


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

No. I just yell at them to call/come get their dog if it's being obnoxious at the park.

In the situation you describe, I would and have just totally ignore and keep walking. It's on the other dog's owner to come and collect it, not my responsibility what happens to it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I treat every situation on its own merits. 

Saturday I was at PetsMart. Someone had a small child holding a puppy that they couldn't decide if it was 5 or 8 weeks old. It looked 4 weeks old, and I _know _what four week old puppies look like. It was a lab/shepherd mix, and if it was 5 weeks, then it was small and probably better off away from the breeder, because it wasn't getting its needs met. 

Of course I did not touch it. I just asked how old it was, and they told me what it was, and how old they thought it was. I then gave a bit of unsolicited advice, I said: "Don't put it down in there." There quickly said, "No, we are going to carry it." I then left. 

New puppy owners are some times unaware of dangers. I wouldn't have had that puppy out. It was shaking. I certainly would not have had that puppy at a dog inhabited area. I didn't say all that. But I wanted the people to be thinking about the dangers to the puppy being there, without overwhelming them. 

A lot of times it is how you say something, how you come across and not that you corrected someone or gave unsolicited advice. And, I am not saying to sugar coat or beat around the bush -- that's crap. I didn't. I said, "Don't." That is a command. But it is coming from someone with no power to enforce it. But it was not said in a way that suggested I was putting them down, or being snarky.

I think where you erred, if you erred, is that you tried to make light of a serious issue by using sarcasm, and that generally comes off nasty. Yes, you could have been irritable about their puppy jumping on you, and if you would have said, "You can't just let your dog jump on people." That would have probably been accepted with an apology. Because you were the injured party and the lady knows that. 

Ah well, I know you know what I am saying so I'll shut up.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Never have.YetI think you were right Kahrg.If that was my puppy I would have been very apologetic.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Oh, and the jumping puppy? Would have been given a knee to the chest.

Yes I'm aware that's not best practice. With my own, I used a hip turn and stern verbal correction. I'd have done the knee with a random dog, because, well - not my dog, natural consequence if you (random general owner "you") won't keep your dog's paws on the ground. I'm short and the knee works well for me in terms of not getting knocked over by a large dog or puppy. If you (again, general) don't want me kneeing your dog, keep it from jumping on me.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

A Great Dane puppy? :wub: I would have stopped and given it some serious loving while ensuring its safety until its owner could retrieve it. I would have then most likely struck up a friendly conversation with the owner for two reasons, one being so I could continue to love on the Dane puppy and the second would have been to make some positive suggestions.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> A Great Dane puppy? :wub: I would have stopped and given it some serious loving while ensuring its safety until its owner could retrieve it. I would have then most likely struck up a friendly conversation with the owner for two reasons, one being so I could continue to love on the Dane puppy and the second would have been to make some positive suggestions.


Ditto


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I used to see a lady with a female Golden Retriever puppy. Every time I saw them the dog was running away from her, going to up to every kid or dog that was at the park. She'd be standing there yelling "RED" "RED". Then one day she came up to my dog, I held her till she could come and get her. She explained to me Red was supposed to be an emergency recall. Extra urgency on it. I made a sarcastic comment about it, and she looked like I had really said something hurtful. For whatever reason I decided then to curb my inner jerk, not an easy thing to do, and just be polite or not say anything at all.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

As far as dog behavior goes, sometimes. As far as human behavior goes, sometimes. On dog behavior itdepend on the situation - an adult dog running up to mine - yes. "Get your dog!" Maybe it's not correcting, maybe it is more ordering people about. Or in the case of one woman with todler and rambuctous pup in the vets office - she was scolding her pup "why can't you be like those dogs?" I joined her to tell her that at that age, my dogs acted like her pup was acting -- that things did change for the better. For someone whose dog has just dumped in public - "pick that up please". For humans misbehaving - I've called CSD many times if it involves a child.

So, yeah but very much "how" depends on "what" and "where."


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

middleofnowhere said:


> As far as dog behavior goes, sometimes. As far as human behavior goes, sometimes. On dog behavior itdepend on the situation - an adult dog running up to mine - yes. "Get your dog!" Maybe it's not correcting, maybe it is more ordering people about. Or in the case of one woman with todler and rambuctous pup in the vets office - she was scolding her pup "why can't you be like those dogs?" *I joined her to tell her that at that age, my dogs acted like her pup was acting -- that things did change for the better.* For someone whose dog has just dumped in public - "pick that up please". For humans misbehaving - I've called CSD many times if it involves a child.
> 
> So, yeah but very much "how" depends on "what" and "where."


That seems like being reassuring to me!

I don't like to downplay what a good dog mine can be, but I've also reassured owners of younger dogs who say stuff like, "Wow, she's REALLY well behaved/nice/well trained" with wistfulness or slight despair in their voices that mine did X things too at that age, they do learn and grow out of it.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Depends on the situation. A father with young son arrived at the dog park with their 6 week old puppy and took it to the dog drinking station. I told the father it wasn't a good idea to let the pup drink, explaining the pup didn't have the immunity of an older dog and could get sick. The father listened, I didn't say the pup was too young to be at the dog park, that may have been a bridge too far. (I bring water for my dog when we go out).


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

Correct people in public?

Yes, but I have a service dog and have to tell them not to pet her, talk to her etc. So I correct people on their dogs too. Don't let your dog come up to mine, she is working.

But I also correct people on non-dog stuff. Told a lady that in CA you can turn right on a red light after a stop. Don't have to wait for green.

But then again I am a smart ass and run my mouth probably when I should not. I would have kept walking with the puppy all the way to my house and taken it in my house and have a new puppy. :grin2:


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Yeah I do. But it depends on the situation. 

Last Fall I was at the Renn fair and a woman passed us with her obvious service dog, a young child started hollering and running after said service dog. I turned toward the family and said " get your kid, that's a service dog, don't let her distract him". The family sheepishly reigned in their kid. 

At the Petsmart a family was talking about getting a fish tank. One of those separated ones where you put multiple Betta fish and can watch them fight through the divider. I flat out said "don't do that, it's cruel to the fish". 

If I see something dangerous in regards to dogs, I speak out. Working at a vet I see plenty of people come in with off leash dogs and let them run up to other dogs. I always step in with a firm " not everyone is healthy or friendly, do you need a leash". 

If I am out and about and see someone struggling, I ask " can I give you a pointer?" If they are open, I help. 

If I see kids handling a dog and not doing a good job, I step in and politely talk to them about keeping everyone safe. 

But I have been on the receiving end of unsolicited advice " of you should use a harness instead of a prong, it's better for pulling." " oh he is friendly" and stupid stuff. 

So if I need to intervene, for safety I will. But I am careful.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My sister's kids had a couple of betas in that tank. They couldn't be together, because Betas will fight, but they never fought through the slotted tanks, they were quite peaceable. After Mufasa died on me, they got another, Pichu, and they get along ok in that tank. 

The paraketes, not so much. Peekachu flat out died on them. Strangest thing. So they got another. I suggested two because my sister's family is on the move, etc. They got two, and they had a big cage, but they had to get a second cage and the birds like being near each other, but they can't be in the same cage. 

I never knew paraketes were so much work. I told her to just bite the bullet and let her kids have a puppy, but she is adamant, 12 years old AND responsible.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

In the case with the Great Dane puppy, I would have stopped and played with it as soon as it approached me, I would have either held onto it until the owner got there or I would have walked it back. If the puppy jumped on me I would have most likely told him to sit and then praised him. I would have advised the owner nicely that it's dangerous for the pup to be without a leash and gave examples(theft or getting hit by car)

I generally will only will say something if it endangers a person or animal. I have not been very nice at the vet--I have no patience for flexi leashes and the lack of control people have. I do not want any dogs at the vet near my dogs, mainly because I don't know what they have or if they are sick--I try to stay away from the vet and only go when absolutely necessary.

I have no problem telling someone off if they are hurting a dog or being careless. Most of the time it's advice if they are struggling.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I think one has to make the distinction between correcting someone, as in telling them they aren't doing something right, vs informing somebody, i.e., there are better ways to do something.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

I think if perhaps I hadn't been on the phone, or was able to easily end that phone conversation I might have been a bit more receptive of the pup's attentions. However, when someone is obviously walking away from your dog and it's not responding to a recall I'd like to think as an owner I would have been chasing after my dog, not yelling it's name over and over from the starting point. Idk, maybe I'm turning in a grump.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> Oh, and the jumping puppy? Would have been given a knee to the chest.
> 
> Yes I'm aware that's not best practice. With my own, I used a hip turn and stern verbal correction. I'd have done the knee with a random dog, because, well - not my dog, natural consequence if you (random general owner "you") won't keep your dog's paws on the ground. I'm short and the knee works well for me in terms of not getting knocked over by a large dog or puppy. If you (again, general) don't want me kneeing your dog, keep it from jumping on me.


Hip check ??? I'd not hear of that, the knee thing works for me but by and large it's not an easy thing to learn??

Judging by the results of others, and I've found the knee thing .. only stops a dog from jumping on you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You are right, they should have been collecting their dog. No doubt. 

She probably should have apologized too. 

But when you started making snide comments, well, I'm sorry, but she doesn't owe you anything. You seem put out that she had a mean look. Well if you would have told her, don't let your puppy jump on me, or your pretty fortunate my dog is not dog-aggressive. She probably wouldn't have looked mean. 

You don't need to love on every dog because it's a puppy. But as a dog owner, for me, I always try to remember, "But for the grace of God, that could be me."


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Yes....but getting the prong on them is more difficult than most any dog I have ever had.

SuperG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Kahrg4 said:


> I think if perhaps I hadn't been on the phone, or was able to easily end that phone conversation I might have been a bit more receptive of the pup's attentions. However, when someone is obviously walking away from your dog and it's not responding to a recall I'd like to think as an owner I would have been chasing after my dog, not yelling it's name over and over from the starting point. Idk, maybe I'm turning in a grump.


Next time, just pick the puppy up and keep walking. I can almost guarantee with 99.9% accuracy that the owner will pick up the pace and start chasing after their dog.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> Kahrg4 said:
> 
> 
> > I think if perhaps I hadn't been on the phone, or was able to easily end that phone conversation I might have been a bit more receptive of the pup's attentions. However, when someone is obviously walking away from your dog and it's not responding to a recall I'd like to think as an owner I would have been chasing after my dog, not yelling it's name over and over from the starting point. Idk, maybe I'm turning in a grump.
> ...


I will give you a dollar to try this and report back.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> WateryTart said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, and the jumping puppy? Would have been given a knee to the chest.
> ...


I didn't even need to do a hip check on my puppy when she was little; she learned pretty young not to jump on me. (Took longer with my husband, who made it into a party when he came home.)

Supposedly you can injure a dog doing the knee thing. I don't really care, if it's some random dog jumping on me; I view that as being the owner's own fault for not either teaching or restraining. It isn't my problem.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

WateryTart said:


> I didn't even need to do a hip check on my puppy when she was little; she learned pretty young not to jump on me. (Took longer with my husband, who made it into a party when he came home.)
> 
> Supposedly you can injure a dog doing the knee thing. I don't really care, if it's some random dog jumping on me; I view that as being the owner's own fault for not either teaching or restraining. It isn't my problem.


You did the knee thing to your husband???? 

:laugh2:


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

You can do some damage to a dog with the "knee thing." Kneeing a dog in the chest can do some serious damage, it is something that I would be very careful with. FWIW


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

IF it affects me or my dog, I'll take someone to task. Or if I see abuse or unfair treatment. Sunday, I was at a public event to raise awareness for the worlds hungry. I brought my young dog. Others also brought dogs. I saw many times where 'correcting' handlers would have been helpful. Not my place to do so.
I went to a pet store after the cropwalk, and a Dalmatian wanted to kill all the dogs that s/he saw. The handler almost lost the leash and it was scary! But I just avoided them. Would have loved to have a chat with them on how to work their reactive dog. I have a feeling, they were there to 'train' with the pet stores guidance.
]ugh.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Yes I do. I also say please and thank you and say ma'am or sir to service people. 
Theres a line not to cross. But if a loose puppy was following me, I'd be worried for that puppy. 
You could've suggested a great trainer, or a good way to train said dog. Then came on here and been super sarcastic...


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Slamdunc said:


> You can do some damage to a dog with the "knee thing." Kneeing a dog in the chest can do some serious damage, it is something that I would be very careful with. FWIW


I maintain that's a risk the other dog's owner assumes by letting said dog jump on others. Honestly? I wouldn't feel bad.

Selzer - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes he's a slow learner.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Slamdunc said:


> You can do some damage to a dog with the "knee thing." Kneeing a dog in the chest can do some serious damage, it is something that I would be very careful with. FWIW


What kind of damage are we talking about here?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> I maintain that's a risk the other dog's owner assumes by letting said dog jump on others. Honestly? I wouldn't feel bad.


So hypothetically, my 5 mos old is being trained not to jump. I'm doing my best to train him, leash in hand, corrections, and trying. You risk breaking a sternum, ribs, or other serious damage? 
I'd think it's one thing to prevent a dog from jumping up by blocking with a knee, but another thing to knee a dog in the chest. 

Not directed at anyone in general, but when did us dog lovers stop loving dogs? Yes we get annoyed at dog owners, but the dogs we love that we are all here for and post about? 
No one needs to be an elitist.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

cloudpump said:


> WateryTart said:
> 
> 
> > I maintain that's a risk the other dog's owner assumes by letting said dog jump on others. Honestly? I wouldn't feel bad.
> ...


No. Presumably if you have a leash in hand, your dog is not able to jump on someone else. Or if I know you and I've agreed to be your test dummy, then obviously that's a different matter.

But otherwise yes - I'd bring my knee up to meet the chest of any dog other than mine that was being allowed to jump on me, and I would consider anything resulting from that to be the other owner's fault. If you are keeping your dog leashed and under control, then I'm not talking about your dog.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

WateryTart said:


> I maintain that's a risk the other dog's owner assumes by letting said dog jump on others. Honestly? I wouldn't feel bad.
> 
> Selzer - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes he's a slow learner.





MineAreWorkingline said:


> What kind of damage are we talking about here?


Years ago I was at a Schutzhund / IPO seminar with Roland Seibel who is a very accomplished competitor, judge and handler. Roland has competed at German and World Championships with GSDs and Rottweilers. One thing about him is that he is not "soft" and has no issues giving a hard correction. He is a much harder handler than I am for sure, but he is fair and an expert in timing and praise. 

While at a tracking portion of the seminar, one handler corrected his dog by quickly hitting is dog in the center of the chest with his heel. Roland who is a very nice guy, immediately went off yelling at this handler. In the spirit of this thread, he sternly admonished this person in front of the entire crowd. Roland's explanation was that there is a bundle of nerves in the center of the chest and hitting a dog there could do serious damage. Now, some of the exact explanation could have been lost in translation form German to English. But, the point Roland was making was very clear and emphatic. He stated that you never hit a dog there, serious damage could occur and he would never do it. Coming from a top handler / competitor that could be heavy handed to make such a big deal out of this and do it publicly, he had a good reason. One of the things that I took away from seminar and it was probably 15 years ago, was to never do that to a dog. 

I would certainly never do anything to ever potentially harm one of my dogs, I wouldn't do it to some one elses dog, either. Unless, the dog was seriously aggressive and not just wanting to say hello.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Honestly, I am a massive animal lover, as soon as I would have seen it following me, I would have stopped and waited for the owner to come get their dog, if it were showing me friendly behaviors then I would have held onto it's collar until it's owner came to get it. Regardless of who's dog it is and how irresponsible it's owner is, I care about the safety of the dog so I would not have ignored it and continued to walk away increasing it's chance of possibly getting hit by a car because it was not on a leash. It was a puppy for Pete's sake, puppies are innocent, it's not their fault they have an irresponsible owner.

And I definitely would have said something to the owner afterwards.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Slamdunc said:


> Years ago I was at a Schutzhund / IPO seminar with Roland Seibel who is a very accomplished competitor, judge and handler. Roland has competed at German and World Championships with GSDs and Rottweilers. One thing about him is that he is not "soft" and has no issues giving a hard correction. He is a much harder handler than I am for sure, but he is fair and an expert in timing and praise.
> 
> While at a tracking portion of the seminar, one handler corrected his dog by quickly hitting is dog in the center of the chest with his heel. Roland who is a very nice guy, immediately went off yelling at this handler. In the spirit of this thread, he sternly admonished this person in front of the entire crowd. Roland's explanation was that there is a bundle of nerves in the center of the chest and hitting a dog there could do serious damage. Now, some of the exact explanation could have been lost in translation form German to English. But, the point Roland was making was very clear and emphatic. He stated that you never hit a dog there, serious damage could occur and he would never do it. Coming from a top handler / competitor that could be heavy handed to make such a big deal out of this and do it publicly, he had a good reason. One of the things that I took away from seminar and it was probably 15 years ago, was to never do that to a dog.
> 
> I would certainly never do anything to ever potentially harm one of my dogs, I wouldn't do it to some one elses dog, either. Unless, the dog was seriously aggressive and not just wanting to say hello.


Wow, I didn't know that.

Sounds to me like a very compelling reason to keep your dog from jumping on others!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Slamdunc said:


> Years ago I was at a Schutzhund / IPO seminar with Roland Seibel who is a very accomplished competitor, judge and handler. Roland has competed at German and World Championships with GSDs and Rottweilers. One thing about him is that he is not "soft" and has no issues giving a hard correction. He is a much harder handler than I am for sure, but he is fair and an expert in timing and praise.
> 
> While at a tracking portion of the seminar, one handler corrected his dog by quickly hitting is dog in the center of the chest with his heel. Roland who is a very nice guy, immediately went off yelling at this handler. In the spirit of this thread, he sternly admonished this person in front of the entire crowd. Roland's explanation was that there is a bundle of nerves in the center of the chest and hitting a dog there could do serious damage. Now, some of the exact explanation could have been lost in translation form German to English. But, the point Roland was making was very clear and emphatic. He stated that you never hit a dog there, serious damage could occur and he would never do it. Coming from a top handler / competitor that could be heavy handed to make such a big deal out of this and do it publicly, he had a good reason. One of the things that I took away from seminar and it was probably 15 years ago, was to never do that to a dog.
> 
> I would certainly never do anything to ever potentially harm one of my dogs, I wouldn't do it to some one elses dog, either. Unless, the dog was seriously aggressive and not just wanting to say hello.


Thank you for clarifying that for me. I have never heard that.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

A couple of years ago I yelled very loudly at a guy whose dog came running across the street to get at my boy. "Get your dog!" The guy called a couple timesd .The dog turned around and went back to the guy.

The guy looked angry at the dog so as the dog approached him, I just about screamed "That was so great. Quick!!!Quick!!!!! Praise him.". The guy did as he was told. He was happy,his dog was happy and I was just thankful for the outcome.

It was kind of nice because while he was pating his dog, we did have a short conversation. He was having recall issues. I gave what pointers I knew and referenced to what just happened as proof for praising.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This thread is kind of winding up my insides, as it twists back and forth. 

The OP clearly irritated me, because we belong to a fraternity of dog owners. I see the irresponsible and less knowledgeable owners as kind of newbies -- people we need to win over, teach, and mold into the kind of dog owners we want out there. 

Ignorant and irresponsible dog owners are the ones that do the most damage to all dog owners, on a societal level. Like the lady with the poodle in PetsMart -- old lady, but she was irritated that someone told her to go and clean up her dog's pee. These are EXACTLY the people that make taking our dogs into non-pet stores impossible, or at least, not going to happen very long. If you can't clean your dog's accident up when there are towels, waste bin, and disinfectant every 4 feet or so, what are you going to do in a store that has no reason to provide these?

Untrained, mismanaged, and aggressive dogs in the hands of irresponsible and/or ignorant people cause a lot of incidents and accidents, and cause places to disallow dogs, insurance companies to refuse to cover or charge exorbitant rates. So, we need to turn ignorant dog owners into knowledgeable dog owners. And we need to turn irresponsible owners into responsible owners. 

We have to do this one dog owner at a time. 

We get opportunities like the one mentioned above with a variety of frequency. We can use that opportunity to win them over, make a friend, help them out, give them someone to emulate, inspire them to learn more. Or we can use the opportunity to raise their hackles, defenses, and get them angry with us. They aren't going to stop having dogs because of this behavior, but they are unlikely to gain at all from the experience. 

And then all the posts about kneeing a puppy. A great dane puppy. Great Danes are a breed I have been interested in, but chose not to ever get because they tend to be puppies for a long time, and then they die very young. I think the average is 6-10 years. They are large and have lots of structural issues including something like wobbler's syndrome and it is very sad. And, we like dogs, right?

Blocking another dog or puppy from your dog out of keeping everyone safe, I'm ok with that. I guess, I just don't like the idea of a dog jumping out of friendly exuberance getting hurt. It's hard enough with shepherds for them to go and politely sniff a stranger and stand still for a quick hello. I wouldn't want my dogs to think they are going to be kicked or kneed if they greet a stranger. If they jump on the stranger, that is my error, knee me -- oh, but you won't do that because I will call the police and they will arrest you. 

I guess, no one is saying that you have to love to be jumped on by out of control puppies. But as a dog owners, and a member of the sub section of formidable dog breed owners, we should try to help people as much as possible, and if that is not possible, to at least not give dog owners a bad name. 

We shouldn't be looking for and acting on opportunities to be rude or physical with people and dogs.

And many of the posts here do have people who are doing a great job of helping out people who need it.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

selzer said:


> This thread is kind of winding up my insides, as it twists back and forth.
> 
> The OP clearly irritated me, because we belong to a fraternity of dog owners. I see the irresponsible and less knowledgeable owners as kind of newbies -- people we need to win over, teach, and mold into the kind of dog owners we want out there.
> 
> ...


I promise, I'm not going around kicking or kneeing dogs willy-nilly! I don't go around looking for an opportunity to hurt dogs or people. I promise.

But Dane puppies are freaking HUGE, and I'm not. A Dane puppy could easily knock me over or hurt me if it jumped. Plus, no matter what the breed or size, it's just not acceptable to allow your dog of any age to run around and jump on people. It just isn't. Mine has managed to get through puppyhood without jumping on a single stranger.

I don't like any dog enough to let it knock me over.

If my way doesn't work for you, that's okay. Don't do it! It works for me, and I'm okay with it.


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## Niexist (Feb 19, 2016)

WateryTart said:


> I promise, I'm not going around kicking or kneeing dogs willy-nilly! I don't go around looking for an opportunity to hurt dogs or people. I promise.
> 
> But Dane puppies are freaking HUGE, and I'm not. A Dane puppy could easily knock me over or hurt me if it jumped. Plus, no matter what the breed or size, it's just not acceptable to allow your dog of any age to run around and jump on people. It just isn't. Mine has managed to get through puppyhood without jumping on a single stranger.
> 
> ...


Why can't you just make loud noise and stomp the ground? You must be fairly friendly for a puppy to decide they want to jump up and greet you, and to most people here it sounds like you're being nice, being nice, then knee in the chest.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Niexist said:


> Why can't you just make loud noise and stomp the ground? You must be fairly friendly for a puppy to decide they want to jump up and greet you, and to most people here it sounds like you're being nice, being nice, then knee in the chest.


Nope. I'm not a friendly, outgoing person, yet I kid you not, I have had random dogs just run up and jump on me. No greeting or prior interaction from me, just run up and jump up. I don't know why. I don't care to get muddied or knocked down, so knee goes up, dog is repelled, we go about our business.

This way works for me, so it's what I do. Like I said - if you don't like it, you don't have to do it!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

WateryTart said:


> Nope. I'm not a friendly, outgoing person, yet I kid you not, I have had random dogs just run up and jump on me. No greeting or prior interaction from me, just run up and jump up. I don't know why. I don't care to get muddied or knocked down, so knee goes up, dog is repelled, we go about our business.
> 
> This way works for me, so it's what I do. Like I said - if you don't like it, you don't have to do it!


 
There is this movie, Lady in White, where the small boy is locked in the coat closet on Halloween night and a serial killer who had killed a girl there a dozen or more years ago, goes there to find a class ring that fell in a grate because they were replacing the furnace. 

Anyhow, the kid is locked in the closet and the guy comes in, and the guy attacks him, but he survives. Only the little girl's ghost visits him to try and find who killed her, so that she and her mother (who ended up committing suicide) could be together again. Yeah weird movie, but a good one. 

Anyhow, in the opening scenes, the kids are riding their bikes to school and the dogs are chasing them, a whole string of them. And the kids from the Catholic school are going down the road led by a nun, and they part ways to let the bikes through, and start going again, and the string of dogs, comes running, and the nun gives the dog THE LOOK! Yelp!!!!! and turn tail, and they all beat it out of their. No dog was going to jump on that woman, LOL! 

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the scene so I could post it, and instead had to type a thousand words to paint the picture.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

selzer said:


> There is this movie, Lady in White, where the small boy is locked in the coat closet on Halloween night and a serial killer who had killed a girl there a dozen or more years ago, goes there to find a class ring that fell in a grate because they were replacing the furnace.
> 
> Anyhow, the kid is locked in the closet and the guy comes in, and the guy attacks him, but he survives. Only the little girl's ghost visits him to try and find who killed her, so that she and her mother (who ended up committing suicide) could be together again. Yeah weird movie, but a good one.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a really good movie.

And I'm going to have to watch it so I can channel that nun! For real, I don't know what it is, but some dogs just seem to think they can run right up to me and jump on me. The funny part is that because I HATE that behavior, my own dog learned at a young age not to do that.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

selzer said:


> There is this movie, Lady in White, where the small boy is locked in the coat closet on Halloween night and a serial killer who had killed a girl there a dozen or more years ago, goes there to find a class ring that fell in a grate because they were replacing the furnace.
> 
> Anyhow, the kid is locked in the closet and the guy comes in, and the guy attacks him, but he survives. Only the little girl's ghost visits him to try and find who killed her, so that she and her mother (who ended up committing suicide) could be together again. Yeah weird movie, but a good one.
> 
> ...



Great......even hearing about a scary movie much less seeing one will give me nightmares for at least a month.....as I was reading your post, I instinctively went into the fetal position. 

Aren't there some kind of rules about this? I feel as though my safe zone is being violated.

SuperScaredFragileG


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

selzer said:


> There is this movie, Lady in White, where the small boy is locked in the coat closet on Halloween night and a serial killer who had killed a girl there a dozen or more years ago, goes there to find a class ring that fell in a grate because they were replacing the furnace.
> 
> Anyhow, the kid is locked in the closet and the guy comes in, and the guy attacks him, but he survives. Only the little girl's ghost visits him to try and find who killed her, so that she and her mother (who ended up committing suicide) could be together again. Yeah weird movie, but a good one.
> 
> ...


Part of that movie was taped in my town.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm in agreement with WateryTart that I should be able to walk down my street without a dog (puppy or otherwise) tailing me down the road a considerable ways and then jumping on me when I do stop. I have always turned away from any dog that jumped and so never needed to use a knee to deter a jump. Interesting to hear about the bundle of nerves in the chest though. That was a new one for me too.

Personally, I felt that the owner took far too long to come get her dog and was obviously practicing unsafe and irresponsible dog ownership in allowing the puppy to run around off leash along the side of a road. I live in a gated community and we have very strict requirements about dogs, chief among them that they are on a leash at all times. There is even an off leash dog park in our community she could have taken the puppy to so that it could run around off leash safely. 

Perhaps I was wrong, but my instant impression was that she was trying to skirt the rules by having the leash available to clip on real quick in case someone saw her letting the dog play off leash but otherwise had no plan to use it. With that as the explanation my mind arrived at, I felt it was appropriate to respond as I did. Everything I said was said with a smile and delivered in a tongue-in-cheek manner, but I still believe that if you see something you should say something. It's one way to help maintain order in our society, and in this instance keeping young puppies safe from their owners' choices. 

Also, seems to me as a whole we are getting much worse at accepting and acknowledging when we make a mistake and many get overly defensive, rude, and sometimes outright aggressive when someone points out the error of their ways. Just my two cents.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The post comes across as though you made a witty comment to someone and you want people to slap you on the back for it. 

Sorry, but yes we should say something when someone's dog is in our lap, and we don't want it there. But if we are going to be snarky, sarcastic, or condescending, don't expect people to be sweet and apologetic.

It's kind of like:
Person's dog invades your space -- owner should apologize.

Victim says something nasty to the owner -- you're even, no apology, because she doesn't know you, and you can be a bully, and apologizing after someone cuts you down is usually just an open invitation to have them go on. 

She slighted you, you slighted her. Both of you are on social media complaining about the other. And that's the way the ball bounces.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Heck yea. This is the thing about off leash dog owners. They don't give a carp about anyone but themselves. The world is their training ground and everything in it. Bull. I would have stopped walking/faced the owner and told that puppy "No" "Go" If it jumped up on me - I would have given it's front paws a good squeeze so it would think twice about doing that to a stranger again.

Several months ago, new neighbors moved in. Just what I wanted to see - 2 PB's with 18,19 year old first time apartment/dog? owners. I could see that these owners had no control of their dogs. Both he and she were leaning back body wise and the dogs were at the full length of their leashes hauling them down the sidewalk.

I got off my bike and stepped aside putting my bike in front of me and my back to a parked car on the street. They said Hiiah! as they approached. I said Hi. Both their dogs pulled them off the sidewalk and over to where I was standing. I pulled my bike closer and made a fence of it.

They said oh, don't worry - they're friendly. I said - good - you have a leash - why don't you USE IT! They looked awe struck that I should be so un-friend-like-. Fricken Idiots!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

selzer said:


> The post comes across as though you made a witty comment to someone and you want people to slap you on the back for it.
> 
> Sorry, but yes we should say something when someone's dog is in our lap, and we don't want it there. But if we are going to be snarky, sarcastic, or condescending, don't expect people to be sweet and apologetic.
> 
> ...


Makes one wonder with constant earbuds in their ears and telephone in hand if many of today's people have lost the capacity to be social. Who knows? Maybe the owner of the puppy might have been a new best friend, or the person doing the hiring at the next job interview, or somebody who will be carpooling for children or a next SO's mother or sister. What ever happened to making a good first impression? Or just being a nice person? An unruly puppy is an annoyance, an abrupt reaction to a petty annoyance is a put off. People used to smile, say hello, go about their business, be courteous and friendly, not today. If you hear voices in public today, it is usually that of somebody on a cell phone.


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## LittleBear (Apr 1, 2016)

Well, today I saw something I couldn't even make up if I wanted to. I was at a park, not an off leash area, and it has been known to have various wild life if you bother to look closely, including deer, pheasants, coyotes, and at the moment, a lot of geese. I love this park because it has nice pathways and gives me a chance to practice sit/stays with joggers, walkers, bicyclists, etc. Just finished a nice evening walk with Phoenix, and we are coming to the parking lot and I see two loose little dogs. So I wonder, where's the owner? Then I see one dog go trotting back to a car about 40 feet away, door opens, dog jumps in  then the other dog heads back, jumps in. This is the same parking lot where, a few years back, a coyote came out of the tall grass and took an interest in me and my old GSD. It was way too close for comfort! And not two weeks ago, I saw a coyote chasing geese. I was tempted to go up to them and explain that their in-attention might result in their little dogs getting eaten by a coyote, then I thought, these people are so oblivious, they wouldn't even understand what I was grumbling about.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Usually people who have their dogs off leash have well behaved or well trained dogs. They should not be penalized because others cannot achieve the same with their own dogs.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Last night, before dark. Summer started barking in the house because something was going on out front. I looked out the window and there was a car parked across the street "rockin". On the other side of it was a woman walking two beautiful Aussies that were going ballistic on the side of the white car.

I stepped outside on the porch, she had lost the leash on one of her dogs and was on her cell phone. She crammed the cell phone in her pocket and then both her dogs were loose jumping up at the window trying to get at the 2 pits in the white car.

She saw me - we made eye contact. I was ready to go over and help her get one of the dogs on leash control - but I remembered this thread and stood there silent thinking that she would ask for help and I would be right there. She didn't - she flipped the hood of her coat up and fell on the ground when one of the leashes tripped her - eventually got both leashes back and drug her dogs across to my side of the street away from the car. 

I think if I'd just gone over there and grabbed which ever loose leash was handy and stood there like a pole - she would have chewed me out.:surprise:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Usually people who have their dogs off leash have well behaved or well trained dogs. .


Do you have a map? I need directions to where those people are.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Usually people who have their dogs off leash have well behaved or well trained dogs. They should not be penalized because others cannot achieve the same with their own dogs.


I'll just say you would think that is always the case but sadly these days it seems ...not so much.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> Do you have a map? I need directions to where those people are.


Yes ma'am, right in your own state, just drive south. Of course, this does not apply to dog fighting breeds, but it does apply to small toy dogs too. :smile2:


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I'll just say you would think that is always the case but sadly these days it seems ...not so much.


Come on to my neck of the woods. The stuff that people write on here about other dogs makes my head spin. It is not, and never has been, like that where I live.

But as previously mentioned, this does not apply to dog fighting breeds.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ah yes...not a thread can go by without mention of the infamous "dog fighting breeds"


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> Do you have a map? I need directions to where those people are.


Right?

I run into plenty of poorly behaved, poorly controlled dogs both on and off leash, but in my experience, the ones who are well mannered are almost invariable also on leash.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

WateryTart said:


> Right?
> 
> I run into plenty of poorly behaved, poorly controlled dogs both on and off leash, but in my experience, the ones who are well mannered are almost invariable also on leash.


phhhh...I can't get out of the vet office without a run in with some wannabe football.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Come on to my neck of the woods. The stuff that people write on here about other dogs makes my head spin. It is not, and never has been, like that where I live.
> 
> But as previously mentioned, this does not apply to dog fighting breeds.


I don't know?? It sounds like you live a community that has a "Titled Dogs Only" requirement??

For a lot of us seeing a well behaved dog "On Leash" is a marvel much less off leash?? Out here the only dog I know of that is as well behaved as "Rocky" is a "Chi" and we scared the heck out of her. She saw us across the street and reached down and scooped her Chi. 

I shouted across the street and apologized and told her she had no to worry, felt bad about that one, the point is she's seen the off leash dogs with owners out here and was duly concerned. 

I did see a dog owner walking her dogs at my friends house where I was doing yard work. Rocky was in "Place" oh and to may surprise apparently (Place is indeed an implied Stay, who knew??) and a lady comes by with two Greyhounds and a Dobbie. All on leash and extremely well behave. The Dobbie was on point (not pulling) and the two Greyhounds were beside her. Rocky only looked, he never made a sound and seeing the ladies dogs, I was pretty sure they did not even need leashes?? 

In any case seeing (other) well behaved dogs ... is kinda novel for a lot of us. 

And sigh if I must a competent owner can have an off leash trained well behaved "Fighting Breed" ... I will concede ... that I have never seen one! 

And I have to include myself in that category, neither my American Band Dawg or my Boxer were ever walked off leash. I do believe they would have been fine?? But for whatever reason?? I wound up trusting my OS WL GSD more?? Kinda odd considering our "extremely bumpy" start?? 

But I think by and large for me it was more about not trusting my training with those guys at the time?? Gunther could be deadly (American Band Dawg) and Struddell (Boxer) well she could be kinda scattered brain. 

Still with Struddell, when she heard "Stay" she'd freeze like a statute! So it was more about me , then them.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I don't know?? It sounds like you live a community that has a "Titled Dogs Only" requirement??
> 
> For a lot of us seeing a well behaved dog "On Leash" is a marvel much less off leash?? Out here the only dog I know of that is as well behaved as "Rocky" is a "Chi" and we scared the heck out of her. She saw us across the street and reached down and scooped her Chi.
> 
> ...


"Titled" dogs only???

As stated on numerous occasions, this is the big city with tiny yards. One is almost forced to let their dogs off lead if they are to get any exercise. Prior to that, there were no leash laws, or none that anybody was aware of. Almost all dogs were loose, supervised or not, and there were very few problems.

Maybe since so many people avoid off leash dogs, and dog parks, that would explain why you see so very few off leash dogs that are well behaved. Doesn't mean they aren't out there, just means you don't give yourself access to them.

Regarding your experience with ban dogs and your WL, I guess it depends on the owner and the dog, but I think what you have found is it not much different from my personal experience, i.e., HA is far easier to manage and control than DA.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

But back on topic, I treat other people's dogs / cats as I would treat my own, with love and kindness. Not saying I don't train or correct, so I can offer kindness in the form of freedom commensurate with behavior, but that is another topic.

I would hope that if one of mine were to get lost that somebody, at the very least, would offer it a bowl of food or water. I hope that if a dog would break training and approach another person, that the worst case scenario would be the other person ignores, although I never owned a dog that would voluntarily approach a stranger. From what I have read on this forum, and others on here, I live in fear that someday something might happen, maybe a car accident where I am injured or worse, and that any one of my dogs might have to rely on others for help. The abject apathy towards dogs or cats in need that I have seen posted by many throughout these forums terrifies me for my dog's or cat's sakes.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> But back on topic, I treat other people's dogs / cats as I would treat my own, with love and kindness. Not saying I don't train or correct, so I can offer kindness in the form of freedom commensurate with behavior, but that is another topic.
> 
> I would hope that if one of mine were to get lost that somebody, at the very least, would offer it a bowl of food or water. I hope that if a dog would break training and approach another person, that the worst case scenario would be the other person ignores, although I never owned a dog that would voluntarily approach a stranger. From what I have read on this forum, and others on here, I live in fear that someday something might happen, maybe a car accident where I am injured or worse, and that any one of my dogs might have to rely on others for help. The abject apathy towards dogs or cats in need that I have seen posted by many throughout these forums terrifies me for my dog's or cat's sakes.


:thumbup:


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> "Titled" dogs only???
> 
> As stated on numerous occasions, this is the big city with tiny yards. One is almost forced to let their dogs off lead if they are to get any exercise. Prior to that, there were no leash laws, or none that anybody was aware of. Almost all dogs were loose, supervised or not, and there were very few problems.
> 
> ...


Maybe "titled" dogs is a city wide requirement?? 

Not many threads with the title "An off leash Dog went by me and there were no issues??"  

I'm not saying there are not well behaved off leash dogs out there (as I have one. ) Just saying that for the vast majority of posters it would seem ... seeing that is not the norm?? 

I've been here in "NV" for 13 years and only saw the one Chi off leash. Most of the other dogs I've seen are straining on a leash or dashing from there yards.

Heck in the Vet's office, I had to tell some guy with a 113 lbs Dobbie (yes not a mistype, the Dobbie was freaking huge!!) Rocky was in a down and the guy let his "Flexi Equipped" Super Dobbie get in "Rocky's" face! The Dobbie was well behaved but I did not care! I stepped in front and asked him to move his dog! Clearly that guy did not train that dog?? In any case no issues other than me getting ticked off.  

And the DA thing vs HA ...yeah different breeds, I expected DA with Rocky his "Pack Issues" with Gunther gave me grounds for being concerned but most like as you know or would have know ... other dogs, were never an issue. He's actually very good around other dogs despite are numerous "Dogs Gone Wild Encounters." 

And yeah the "People thing" he is "still" not a fan of people in the home and I did use a muzzle on him in public for a while. But I showed him what I wanted, him behind, me in front if I spoke to someone "No you can't Pet my Dog." Still used it home he's a bit less "flexible" on his turf but again with him "Place was sufficient." 

And really the muzzle never came into play out and about (did use it in the home) but again, never came into play him in "Place" and me "saying" don't even ask with my eyes, worked out fine. 

But Gunther ...yeah it was years before I allowed him to interact with other dogs. Most likely a bit of overkill on my part there??

But I think it's fair to say that for a lot of us seeing well behaved "off leash" dogs ... is a pretty rare sight??


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Maybe "titled" dogs is a city wide requirement??
> 
> Not many threads with the title "An off leash Dog went by me and there were no issues??"
> 
> ...


Let me repeat, :grin2:, maybe you aren't seeing well behaved dogs off leash because you avoid places with off leash dogs.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> But back on topic, I treat other people's dogs / cats as I would treat my own, with love and kindness. Not saying I don't train or correct, so I can offer kindness in the form of freedom commensurate with behavior, but that is another topic.
> 
> I would hope that if one of mine were to get lost that somebody, at the very least, would offer it a bowl of food or water. I hope that if a dog would break training and approach another person, that the worst case scenario would be the other person ignores, although I never owned a dog that would voluntarily approach a stranger. From what I have read on this forum, and others on here, I live in fear that someday something might happen, maybe a car accident where I am injured or worse, and that any one of my dogs might have to rely on others for help. The abject apathy towards dogs or cats in need that I have seen posted by many throughout these forums terrifies me for my dog's or cat's sakes.


I know for myself, a lost dog or cat who very obviously was separated from its owner and in need of help, is an entirely different scenario from a poorly controlled dog out with its owner. A lost dog who followed us on a walk and obviously had no owner would become my responsibility (on a personal moral level) in a way I just am not going to take on for a dog that has an owner right there who is supposed to be supervising/advocating. Two totally different things. It's like apples and wooden spoons.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> I know for myself, a lost dog or cat who very obviously was separated from its owner and in need of help, is an entirely different scenario from a poorly controlled dog out with its owner. A lost dog who followed us on a walk and obviously had no owner would become my responsibility (on a personal moral level) in a way I just am not going to take on for a dog that has an owner right there who is supposed to be supervising/advocating. Two totally different things. It's like apples and wooden spoons.


I am a dog / animal lover, especially large breeds, I don't expect everybody else to be but am always surprised when I encounter it on a dog forum. It is beyond my comprehension to look at a Great Dane puppy and not feel joy and happiness at one's approach and the opportunity to interact with it as well as protecting it from being unruly and being hit by a car or running off. It is just who I am. 

There have been comments in other threads that I have seen where a lost or stray pet animal is not somebody else's responsibility. My mind is incapable of thinking like that.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am a dog / animal lover, especially large breeds, I don't expect everybody else to be but am always surprised when I encounter it on a dog forum. It is beyond my comprehension to look at a Great Dane puppy and not feel joy and happiness at one's approach and the opportunity to interact with it as well as protecting it from being unruly and being hit by a car or running off. It is just who I am.
> 
> There have been comments in other threads that I have seen where a lost or stray pet animal is not somebody else's responsibility. My mind is incapable of thinking like that.


A good way to conceptualize it might be to think of that parent who isn't really a fan of kids overall and only really likes their own kid(s) and maybe a select few others who are either friends with their own kids or who belong to the parents' friends.

I'm not a parent myself, but I have friends who feel this way: They don't care for kids in general but they did enjoy their own and the kids in their own inner circles (friends and relatives).


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> A good way to conceptualize it might be to think of that parent who isn't really a fan of kids overall and only really likes their own kid(s) and maybe a select few others who are either friends with their own kids or who belong to the parents' friends.
> 
> I'm not a parent myself, but I have friends who feel this way: They don't care for kids in general but they did enjoy their own and the kids in their own inner circles (friends and relatives).


I agree with that. I never was able to understand that concept either.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I agree with that. I never was able to understand that concept either.


I get it, but then my bias is that I don't enjoy small children either. I like other people's kids once they hit about age 12, IF they're not obnoxious individuals.

I also tend to operate from the other side of the coin: I'm hypervigilant about my dog because I don't expect anyone else to assist her if she is in need, nor do I expect anyone else to be dying to put up with her. I adore her, but she's a pain in the neck (and I say that with the utmost affection), and I wouldn't blame a soul for not wanting to deal with her.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> I get it, but then my bias is that I don't enjoy small children either. I like other people's kids once they hit about age 12.
> 
> I also tend to operate from the other side of the coin: I'm hypervigilant about my dog because I don't expect anyone else to assist her if she is in need, nor do I expect anyone else to be dying to put up with her. I adore her, but she's a pain in the neck (and I say that with the utmost affection), and I wouldn't blame a soul for not wanting to deal with her.


I disagree, I think you should expect people to help her if she were in need. People have been doing it for years. It is the right thing to do. You can't save them all but one can certainly assist the one that crosses your path. Not all people are cold, callous, or uncaring. There are a lot of good people out there. 

Insofar as putting up with her, I guess that depends on the person. Especially if it is a GSD, I look forward to making somebody's acquaintance as well as interacting with their dog IF that is is appropriate and possible.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I disagree, I think you should expect people to help her if she were in need. People have been doing it for years. It is the right thing to do. You can't save them all but one can certainly assist the one that crosses your path. Not all people are cold, callous, or uncaring. There are a lot of good people out there.
> 
> Insofar as putting up with her, I guess that depends on the person. Especially if it is a GSD, I look forward to making somebody's acquaintance as well as interacting with their dog IF that is is appropriate and possible.


I'm being somewhat tongue in cheek. I basically don't want my dog imposing on anyone, from peeing in their yard to jumping on them to accidentally knocking over their small child because she was too exuberant about meeting them. I love her and think she is great, but I recognize not everyone wants her in their space and I'm pretty painstaking about that.

And no, I don't really have any expectation of people helping her if she needed something. Why would I, when she's my responsibility? If they do, that's very kind, it's a bonus, and I would be forever grateful to them. But that would be a choice on their part and not something I'm entitled to expect.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> I'm being somewhat tongue in cheek. I basically don't want my dog imposing on anyone, from peeing in their yard to jumping on them to accidentally knocking over their small child because she was too exuberant about meeting them. I love her and think she is great, but I recognize not everyone wants her in their space and I'm pretty painstaking about that.
> 
> And no, I don't really have any expectation of people helping her if she needed something. Why would I, when she's my responsibility? If they do, that's very kind, it's a bonus, and I would be forever grateful to them. But that would be a choice on their part and not something I'm entitled to expect.


You should expect it because you aren't perfect or infallible, you are human and we all need help sometime. What would happen, God forbid, if you were walking your dog and got hit by a car and you were rendered unconscious? Imagine them taking you away in an ambulance and your frightened and upset dog dragging its leash around trying to follow you but failing? Now your dog is lost and alone, now what? What if somebody leaves your gate open and your dog wanders out, only to be attacked and chased by another dog and can't find its way back? What if while being chased she got hit by a car and crawls under somebody's porch where you can't find her? A lot can go wrong when you own a dog. Sometimes you can't be all, no man is a mountain.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Let me repeat, :grin2:, maybe you aren't seeing well behaved dogs off leash because you avoid places with off leash dogs.


Aww don't make me go all "Agree to Disagree." 

With my guys maybe I'll be willing to "take a calculated" risk?? I did with "Rocky" first dog I'd ever taken to a Dog Park ... and nothing happened! 

We met a female GSD she side stepped me easily when I attempted a body block, she wanted to check Rocky out ... he passed her inspection. 

And we got tracked by a "Basset Hound!" I finally had to let "Rocky" meet him as he was not going away! Rocky, just followed me around the Dog Park ... and so did the "Basset!" Finally I stopped and they met all went well. 

But ... my Boxer "Struddell" nope never, not gonna happen, I took "zero" chances with her. 10 years and she was never "accosted" the closest she got was when the two dogs charged "Rocky and I." We were on point and out of those dogs "poor choices" there one good choice was that they chose us and not her!

Had they targeted her (She was to the rear with my wife) the story would have been different! Rocky and I handled it ... no Boxer involvement! I don't play where my "Baby Girl" is concerned, pretty much that simple. Had they by passed "us" and targeted her (oh yeah and my wife) ... I'd have let Rocky go, as he could have arrived on scene before me and when I got there a few steps later ...yeah violence would have insured! 

So for some of us ...yeah it's best for everyone that we don't let our dogs associate with other dogs in "uncontrolled circumstances."

I'm not saying there are not dogs as well behaved as "Rocky" out here?? Just saying ..."I've" not seen them.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> You should expect it because you aren't perfect or infallible, you are human and we all need help sometime. What would happen, God forbid, if you were walking your dog and got hit by a car and you were rendered unconscious? Imagine them taking you away in an ambulance and your frightened and upset dog dragging its leash around trying to follow you but failing? Now your dog is lost and alone, now what? What if somebody leaves your gate open and your dog wanders out, only to be attacked and chased by another dog and can't find its way back? What if while being chased she got hit by a car and crawls under somebody's porch where you can't find her? A lot can go wrong when you own a dog. Sometimes you can't be all, no man is a mountain.


Oh, I agree I'm not perfect and no matter how careful I am, I'll make mistakes.

But that isn't on someone else, that's on me. I think you and I just see an act of kindness in a different way. For you, it's a matter of course and what any human would do; for me, it's a bonus and something for which I would be even more grateful because I don't consider I have any right to expect it. And I say this as someone who saw a neighbor's dog trotting down the alley and instantly was out the door with shoes and a leash so I could bring her back - it still isn't something I would think my neighbor was obligated to do for me.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Aww don't make me go all "Agree to Disagree."
> 
> With my guys maybe I'll be willing to "take a calculated" risk?? I did with "Rocky" first dog I'd ever taken to a Dog Park ... and nothing happened!
> 
> ...


So you do have experience with well behaved, off leash, non aggressive dogs and in a dog park to boot!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> Oh, I agree I'm not perfect and no matter how careful I am, I'll make mistakes.
> 
> But that isn't on someone else, that's on me. I think you and I just see an act of kindness in a different way. For you, it's a matter of course and what any human would do; for me, it's a bonus and something for which I would be even more grateful because I don't consider I have any right to expect it. And I say this as someone who saw a neighbor's dog trotting down the alley and instantly was out the door with shoes and a leash so I could bring her back - it still isn't something I would think my neighbor was obligated to do for me.


Hmmm... I do surround myself with good people, so yes, I do find that a helping hand is a matter of course. Please don't take this as a put down, but why wouldn't you do the same? I know you can't pick your family, but you sure can pick your friends.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Hmmm... I do surround myself with good people, so yes, I do find that a helping hand is a matter of course. Please don't take this as a put down, but why wouldn't you do the same? I know you can't pick your family, but you sure can pick your friends.


My friends and family and probably neighbors would very likely would step in or step up. They are good people...it isn't about that at all and in fact I find it really confusing that because I view something as my role and not theirs, that they then are not good people. That makes no sense to me.

It's more that I see it as not their job. They may very well view it differently, but I don't. It's my responsibility to keep my dog safe. Not anyone else's. It's all a bonus. Not a requirement.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> My friends and family and probably neighbors would very likely would step in or step up. They are good people...it isn't about that at all and in fact I find it really confusing that because I view something as my role and not theirs, that they then are not good people. That makes no sense to me.
> 
> It's more that I see it as not their job. They may very well view it differently, but I don't. It's my responsibility to keep my dog safe. Not anyone else's. It's all a bonus. Not a requirement.


I never said that your role should be assumed by others. I said that if you happen to stumble and fall in your role, that it should be, among good people, a matter of course to lend a helping hand, i.e., not assume your role as a responsible dog owner, but to assume their own roles as decent human beings to step up and help out.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I never said that your role should be assumed by others. I said that if you happen to stumble and fall in your role, that it should be, among good people, a matter of course to lend a helping hand, i.e., not assume your role as a responsible dog owner, but to assume their own roles as decent human beings to step up and help out.


Okay and I don't want to keep going round and round about this, but you see it as a "should" and I see it as a bonus. I know it may seem confusing because even as I might just step up when I see my neighbor's dog trotting down the alley, obviously an escapee, I don't think my neighbor is bound by any duty of any kind to do the same for me. However if she did, I would be very grateful to her - it's just that I don't think that's her responsibility.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

WateryTart said:


> My friends and family and probably neighbors would very likely would step in or step up. They are good people...it isn't about that at all and in fact I find it really confusing that because I view something as my role and not theirs, that they then are not good people. That makes no sense to me.
> 
> It's more that I see it as not their job. They may very well view it differently, but I don't. It's my responsibility to keep my dog safe. Not anyone else's. It's all a bonus. Not a requirement.


If you were walking down the street with your dog, and you passed out and was lying in the street with your dog, would people catch your dog and make sure she is safe? Or would they leave her in the street while the ambulance carted you away? 

I think that people would help if I was totally unresponsive. But because I am overweight, and my dog is a German Shepherd, if I can move at all, I think people would hesitate to step in and grab a hold of the dog. What seems to be lucky for me is that my dogs tend to want to stay close. I haven't had to chase them down. If I call to them, they come, but that is rare because they want to be right with me, there's no need to call to them. So if I slip and fall and break my leg or something, lose hold of the leash, chances are, she is not chasing a cat or squirrel or rabbit into the road. She will come back to me, and I will grab hold of the leash again and then call my dad to come and get her, and then call 9-1-1. 

Sometimes stuff happens. And our dog is loose, and by their condition, people can see that they are not a stray, and they as a whole, generally want to help return the dog to the owner. Yes it is my responsibility to keep my dog safe, and to the best of my ability, I will. But if it happens that something out of my control -- tree fell on the kennel collapsing it and the back yard fence and one of my girls is not out in the yard, I would hope that someone seeing her would call someone, so she doesn't get lost or stolen, shot or run over.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> Okay and I don't want to keep going round and round about this, but you see it as a "should" and I see it as a bonus. I know it may seem confusing because even as I might just step up when I see my neighbor's dog trotting down the alley, obviously an escapee, I don't think my neighbor is bound by any duty of any kind to do the same for me. However if she did, I would be very grateful to her - it's just that I don't think that's her responsibility.


Agree to disagree.

I never said your dog, or your role, is your neighbor's, friend's, etc., responsibility.

I said it their responsibility to be the best that they can be, to have and maintain a healthy moral compass and that includes their responsibility to do the right thing.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Agree to disagree.
> 
> I never said your dog, or your role, is your neighbor's, friend's, etc., responsibility.
> 
> I said it their responsibility to be the best that they can be, to have and maintain a healthy moral compass and that includes their responsibility to do the right thing.


Right, whereas I don't think they have a responsibility to do squat in order to be a good person. My responsibility to others outside of my household - at least, a big part of it - is to be as little trouble and imposition as possible. That's why I'm so painstaking about taking care of my own stuff. I expect the same from others. Then when we do need each other and we step up, we understand it's a nice gift of kindness from the other.

But we will have to agree to disagree, because I'm having trouble even wrapping my head around what you're saying, I view a given individual's responsibility to others THAT differently.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Must be just a difference in perceptions, because I would think a good person wouldn't/couldn't just do nothing when you see someone in urgent, immediate need. Wouldn't that be the definition of being 'good'? What makes a person that stands there and does nothing a good person?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> So you do have experience with well behaved, off leash, non aggressive dogs and in a dog park to boot!


LOL well I do so much nay saying and stuff and do remember when you pointed out that most encounters occur "close to home!" Nine or so for "Rocky" and I thus far!

So yeah I had to take him to see how he'd do?? In we went and of course no leash and I couldn't go all nuts if a dog got close! 

Dayton Dog Park is a pretty low risk venue, only three dogs were there. The GSD was the Sheriff for the Dog Park! She side stepped me easily to check Rocky out, he passed her inspection!

And the silly Basset would not get off our trail, yeah big surprise. So finally we stopped and Rocky met him, it all went well, then the Basset turned around and went back to his GSD buddy.

Frankly I found it pretty nerve racking but I managed to fake being calm for "Rocky." For him apparently it was no big deal, he still did what he does, follow me around and ignore other dogs.

I still "advise" NO Dog Parks, conditions vary widely.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> LOL well I do so much nay saying and stuff and do remember when you pointed out that most encounters occur "close to home!" Nine or so for "Rocky" and I thus far!
> 
> So yeah I had to take him to see how he'd do?? In we went and of course no leash and I couldn't go all nuts if a dog got close!
> 
> ...


I suspect you found it nerve wracking because you were waiting for all the naysaying to become self fullfilling prophecies. Nothing like thinking for yourself. I just feel a little sad for your Rocky. It seems from what you said that he rather enjoyed the excursion and you never took him back. You might have met a lot of interesting folks yourself as well. 

I have a little bit of a different philosophy than many on here. I prioritize having a happy dog just as much as a well behaved dog.


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## charger (Jan 29, 2008)

If that happened to me, I would have stopped and let the lady retrieve her puppy. I wouldn't want it to maybe run in to traffic . You can't expect total 100% recall in a puppy. I would advise him/her on leashing to keep the dog safe. I wouldn't be making sarcastic remarks because that only make you look like an ass to the other person.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Galathiel said:


> Must be just a difference in perceptions, because I would think a good person wouldn't/couldn't just do nothing when you see someone in urgent, immediate need. Wouldn't that be the definition of being 'good'? What makes a person that stands there and does nothing a good person?


Because that one moment isn't the sum total of who they are. And I don't know them - if, in this hypothetical situation, they don't help my lost dog, maybe they have a good reason not to. It would be really unfair, potentially even cruel, for someone to decide they're not a good person based on this one action (inaction?) when we don't know their whole story.

I do plenty of judging, but that's not an area where I feel comfortable doing so.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> Because that one moment isn't the sum total of who they are. And I don't know them - if, in this hypothetical situation, they don't help my lost dog, maybe they have a good reason not to. It would be really unfair, potentially even cruel, for someone to decide they're not a good person based on this one action (inaction?) when we don't know their whole story.
> 
> I do plenty of judging, but that's not an area where I feel comfortable doing so.


That is one area I do feel comfortable doing it. :grin2:

Dogs and cats have no voice, they have no choice. Man has domesticated them and so man now needs to assume the responsibility that comes with it.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I suspect you found it nerve wracking because you were waiting for all the naysaying to become self fullfilling prophecies. Nothing like thinking for yourself. I just feel a little sad for your Rocky. It seems from what you said that he rather enjoyed the excursion and you never took him back. You might have met a lot of interesting folks yourself as well.
> 
> I have a little bit of a different philosophy than many on here. I prioritize having a happy dog just as much as a well behaved dog.


Nope in 16 years of Dog ownership I have "never" let an unknown dog get that close to one of mine.

I don't put them in unpredictable situations with dogs, I have no control of?? I was out of my comfort zone. 

I did it for "proofing" and "Rocky" did just fine. Pretty much that simple.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Nope in 16 years of Dog ownership I have "never" let an unknown dog get that close to one of mine.
> 
> I don't put them in unpredictable situations with dogs, I have no control of?? I was out of my comfort zone.
> 
> I did it for "proofing" and "Rocky" did just fine. Pretty much that simple.


:smile2:

Too bad, from what you said, Rocky was in his comfort zone.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> :smile2:
> 
> Too bad, from what you said, Rocky was in his comfort zone.


Aww (Rocky) did not seem to notice the strange dog deal is mine not his. 

He just followed me as we tried to lose the "Basset Hound". Ironically enough ... I proved Cesar's approach with the Dog Park thing, a well trained well disciplined dog does not have a problem in a "Dog Park" so for "me" it's a "me" issue not a "dog" issue.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Aww (Rocky) did not seem to notice the strange dog deal is mine not his.
> 
> He just followed me as we tried to lose the "Basset Hound". Ironically enough ... I proved Cesar's approach with the Dog Park thing, a well trained well disciplined dog does not have a problem in a "Dog Park" so for "me" it's a "me" issue not a "dog" issue.


I agree, I like to say more often than not the problem is at the other end of the leash from the dog. :grin2:


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I've given up trying to educate people, but if I see a loose dog I will tell the owners to leash it or it might get run over and I don't want to see their dog smashed to pieces all over the road. That usually makes more of an impact than telling them to leash their dogs. If they are extremely rude about it, I might tell them that there are leash laws in the area and letting a dog off leash in a public place is breaking the law. They should know that, they don't need me to tell them. The car thing is for the dog's safety. I don't care about stupid owners, but I do care about dogs.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

selzer said:


> The post comes across as though you made a witty comment to someone and you want people to slap you on the back for it.
> 
> But if we are going to be snarky, sarcastic, or condescending, don't expect people to be sweet and apologetic.


I think this comes down to a difference of perception. I do not view my response as snarky or condescending. I was surprised by her reaction to what I considered a common sense solution. Can't get a recall? Have a leash? Use it. 

I also know better than to come to this forum expecting a unanimous response. Be it a slap on the back of otherwise. :wink2: Hence why I asked the question if people corrected others in public or not. 

Based on the responses here and the one received in person it seems everyone has a different take on what is appropriate. Makes for interesting reading.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you said that to me, the way it came across in your original post, I would have been ticked too. Yes, my dog isn't connected, yes I have a leash, yes, I know it doesn't work if it isn't connected. You came across as though you were a school teacher, police officer, or father -- as though you were in a power position over her, and that doesn't go over well.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

OPINION: Respect should work both ways with joggers and dog walkers - News - Weymouth News - Weymouth, MA


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Sue, I think we could keep this circling all night if we wanted. I don't think I was any of those things, your opinion is different. Obviously everybody has a different perception. I'm acknowledging that. 

The purpose of my sharing the story in the opening of my original post was not to question if my actions were appropriate. I believe they were. The purpose was to share an incident where I believed reaching out to correct another dog owner was appropriate. All that to preface to point of the thread, which was to ask if others reach out to correct situations they see with dogs as well.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what are the options ?


for sure I am not inviting them to my home and I doubt I'll be invited to theirs.


so if something is patently wrong , ill advised , then I will break in and offer
better information.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

overheard today -- two guys having a discussion about a dog with bladder cancer --- new treatment technique available .

mr expert guy says why not have it removed -- take no chances -- what after all is the use of a 
GALL bladder .

then they discuss bladder, gall bladder -- totally confused and not informed

said nothing-- dying to -- but said nothing


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

carmspack said:


> overheard today -- two guys having a discussion about a dog with bladder cancer --- new treatment technique available .
> 
> mr expert guy says why not have it removed -- take no chances -- what after all is the use of a
> GALL bladder .
> ...


:laugh2:


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