# Is it ok to mix [email protected] puppy food with quality?



## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

Right, so...

My 12 week old is currently being fed Pedigree Large Breed Junior food. Please don't lambaste me for this - I already know what a dire mistake this is. In my defence, I was feeding Juno what her breeder fed her and up until joining this forum was poorly educated about dog food. I very much want to improve her diet and need a bit of direction.

Lately Juno's stinky poos have been very mudpie-ish and she poos a ridiculous amount of times per day (up to 6 or 7 times - not cool). I know this is related to the fact she's on this food. 

I currently supplement her diet with organic yogurt, ev olive oil, cod liver oil. sweet potatoes (in an effort to curb the poo issue), and occasionally eggs and cooked chicken. For a dog that's on Pedigree, her coat is fabulous and I put that down to the supplements. But here is my question:

Can I mix this Pedigree food with a quality grain free one like TOTW or Orijen Puppy - say at about 50/50? Unfortunately I am currently stuck with about 30 kilos (yes you read right) of the Pedigree, and I don't want to just dump it all. I do not plan to buy it ever again, but I just need to know if it's safe to mix it with a grain-free or other high quality grub just till it's gone. The reason I ask this is I've heard that you aren't supposed to mix foods because then your pup won't get the full benefit of nutrients from either one. I really want to give Juno a good diet, so any suggestions would be really helpful. 

Thanks in advance.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Mixing is fine. In fact it is suggested when switching from one food to the other...

However, a growing pup should not be eating grain frees like TOTW. Most have too high a calcium level to be safe for growing pups. Make sure you check the calcium content on any food for your pup. If it exceeds 1.5% it is not appropriate for growing pups...


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

Yes you can mix it, but really, why would you want to? Do you have a shelter, or humane society nearby? I am certain they would appreciate the food.

You will need some to mix with the new food to transition her, but other than that it will not help her to mix the two, it will also not kill her. So after you transition her to the new food, just add the rest into the new food.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I also suggest not feeding TOTW to your puppy, it is a good kibble but I wouldn't feed it to a puppy.

I can only recommend the puppy formulas I have tried and liked.

Solid Gold Wolf Cub
Blue Buffalo for Large Breed puppy
Wellness Super5Mix for Large Breed puppy (currently feeding my puppy this)


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

N Smith said:


> Yes you can mix it, but really, why would you want to? Do you have a shelter, or humane society nearby? I am certain they would appreciate the food.


I don't know of any shelter that would take that food. Everyone is mad into Royal Canin over here. LOL


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

I've actually read that about TOTW not being great for puppies on here. I thought maybe if it was mixed it would be ok. I plan to give it to her as an adult.
But I suppose what I really need to do is narrow down a decent puppy food for her for right now. 

I'm rather limited in what I can get over here. Our equivalent of PetSmart only sells Royal Canin, Red Mills and Pedigree. No grain free stuff.

Online I can get Acana, Orijen (at 90 euro a bag. Yeesh!!), and Nutro. Haven't been able to find any of the other suggested brands though.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I know what you mean about not wanting things to go to waste. I'm the same way. But I wouldn't mix the Pedigree in with a better food--in this case, since your pup has already got yucky poo, I'd just start her cold turkey on a better food and get rid of the Pedigree. The reason people advice to transition slowly to a new food is to avoid GI upset, but her GI tract is already upset anyway, so I wouldn't bother with a slow transition.

Pedigree dog food is great for chickens.  Perhaps you could donate the bag to someone who raises poultry?


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Pedigree dog food is great for chickens.  Perhaps you could donate the bag to someone who raises poultry?


Is it really?? I have 30 hens and a rooster. It didn't even occur to me to give it to them. That's a brilliant idea actually. Why didn't I think of that??? Freestep, you're a genius! I've given the hens cat food in the past when they are moulting. Actually, the dog food would be ideal. Oh my word....why didn't I think of that? Thank you! I really hated the idea of wasting it, even if is a crap food. lol

Right so, now all I gotta do is find a decent puppy food. I wish Ireland wasn't so limited in it's choice! It's really annoying.


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## skphotoimages (Dec 21, 2011)

First off you haven't made a dire mistake. Yes better foods are, well, better. I wasn't educated on my last GSD, and she ate iams for her first 2 years, then science diet for the next 4, and nutro for the next 8+ years. She lived to be over 14 and was always in great health.

That being said I too am like you. My GSD puppy came to us eatting science diet. His poo smelled horrible and he went 4 or 5 times a day. I switched him to TOTW (before this forum) and he started gaining 7lbs a week. He was growing WAY to fast..so definitly don't feed that. Now he is on Solid Gold wolf cub and things have been great. He only gains 2-3 lbs per week now, poos 2-3 times a day and they don't stink.

He's 17 weeks old now and I'm trying to het gim on to Wolf King because the calcium and protein is lower. His poos aren't that great right now despite transitioning at a snails pace. Not sure why yet. It's either the Wolf King, these treats my husband gives him, or something in the yard. His eyes are gunky too..so maybe it's an allergy. Time will tell.

I hope you find a good food readily available to you. This forum is great for suggestions.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Take it to a shelter-the city dog pound can for sure use it!


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

My puppy poops once to twice a day, small amounts - and I can barely smell it. Switch to raw.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I would stop with all the "add ins".(For now.) Those alone could be causing the poop issues. Over feeding is the #1 cause of poop problems in an otherwise healthy puppy or dog.

Also, since no one else has mentioned it (that I saw), I thought you weren't supposed to give dogs cod liver oil?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Take it to a shelter-the city dog pound can for sure use it!


The OP is in Ireland, not the U.S.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Since you said you plan on feeding TOTW when she us an adult, can you get the TOTW PUPPY formulas there? They are 1.3% and 1.4% calcium.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

If you're having trouble finding high quality kibble in your area, have you considering raw feeding? If you have the time/interest to learn about it, it could work out cheaper and more convenient than paying exorbitant prices for imported kibble.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

yes , no cod liver oil -- Vitamin A from animal source can lead to toxic accumulations. Cod liver oil and fatty fish FLESH oil are not the same thing.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

Rua said:


> Is it really?? I have 30 hens and a rooster. It didn't even occur to me to give it to them. That's a brilliant idea actually. Why didn't I think of that??? Freestep, you're a genius! I've given the hens cat food in the past when they are moulting. Actually, the dog food would be ideal. Oh my word....why didn't I think of that? Thank you! I really hated the idea of wasting it, even if is a crap food. lol
> 
> Right so, now all I gotta do is find a decent puppy food. I wish Ireland wasn't so limited in it's choice! It's really annoying.


Personally I wouldn't want to eat chickens or the eggs they produce if they are eating pedigree... that's just disgusting!!!!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

e.rigby said:


> Personally I wouldn't want to eat chickens or the eggs they produce if they are eating pedigree... that's just disgusting!!!!


You'd be amazed at what chickens eat... if they are free-ranging as they should be, they'll be eating bugs, worms, grubs, picking morsels out of other animals' poop, etc, so a bit of dog or cat kibble seems pretty benign to me. However, who knows what kind of things are put into dog kibble--some things I am sure are not meant for food-producing animals.


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

Freestep said:


> You'd be amazed at what chickens eat... if they are free-ranging as they should be, they'll be eating bugs, worms, grubs, picking morsels out of other animals' poop, etc, so a bit of dog or cat kibble seems pretty benign to me. However, who knows what kind of things are put into dog kibble--some things I am sure are not meant for food-producing animals.


It's true, chickens do eat just about anything. And ours are free ranging. They have a very good diet of cracked corn, grains, a huge variety of stuff from our garden and table scraps. Nothing goes to waste! Chickens are omnivores as well, so small amounts of protein and meat are actually quite good for feather production. I know a few chicken farmers who give their hens actual cooked chicken occasionally, but I have a huge issue with that. I don't mind giving them a bit of beef or pork every now and then, but I feel like giving them any cooked chicken is cannibalism. LOL

The Pedrigree Large Breed Junior food I have at the moment is a chicken and rice formula. The ingredients are as follows: Cereal (min. 14% rice, min 4% corn), meat & meat by-products (min. 4% chicken chunks in brown), oils & fats (min. 0.6% fish oil), vegetable protein extracts, vegetable by-products (min. 4% sugar beet pulp), minerals

The reason why i must have had a mental block about giving the Pedigree to my hens is probably because the kibble had the word "chicken" in it. Since learning so much about dog food in the past few weeks though, I highly doubt it has any real chicken in it. I could be wrong. The biggest issue I could foresee with my hens eating it would be that the kibble is quite large. 



BlackGSD said:


> Since you said you plan on feeding TOTW when she us an adult, can you get the TOTW PUPPY formulas there? They are 1.3% and 1.4% calcium.


Unfortunately the only TOTW I can get over here is the adult formula. And I have to get it sent from Germany, which isn't so bad since the shipping is free if you spend over a certain amount. 

Here's a list of foods I have available to me here: 
Dog Food, Dry Dog Food on Sale now at zooplus

Many of those are pretty good. Some are not. 

And as regards using the cod liver oil. I've stopped that now. I thought it was the same as fish oil and I've since learned it is not. I was talking to my sister who works in a dog shelter in the US last night, and she told me Cod Liver Oil can actually have a diuretic effect. And here's me giving it to JUno and wondering why her poos were sloppy. It's a wonder my pup has survived me at all thus far. I'm clueless!

Which brings me to my next point: If I can't get feeding plain old kibble and bits to my pup right, how would I ever get a Raw food diet right? Too scary! I can't cope! LOL  

For the moment I plan to stick to a good kibble. I'm not ruling out Raw, but I need to educate myself a bit better about it before jumping in. 

Thanks to everyone for your great input. I really appreciate it a lot!


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

Hi Rua I'm from Ireland as well  I'm origionally from Dublin (Drimnagh) but moved to Kilkenny 2 years ago. Have you looked in Maxi Zoo? They have a good selection of food and ya might get something better then ya would in say Pet Mania. 
Raw seems to be the best way to go in Ireland or you could order off Zooplus. I agree though dog food is a pain to get over here


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

catz said:


> Hi Rua I'm from Ireland as well  I'm origionally from Dublin (Drimnagh) but moved to Kilkenny 2 years ago. Have you looked in Maxi Zoo? They have a good selection of food and ya might get something better then ya would in say Pet Mania.
> Raw seems to be the best way to go in Ireland or you could order off Zooplus. I agree though dog food is a pain to get over here


Ah howerya, Catz! Nice to meet another Irish person here! I'm in the Swords area myself. I will defo look into the Maxi Zoo site. I hadn't even heard of that. In the past, I've always used Zooplus cuz I was sick of the exorbitant prices for stuff in our local PetStop. 

Yeah I'm thinking about the whole Raw thing. Is that what you do yourself for your pups?


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

Maxi Zoo is in Naas, ya can get the directions off their site. I'd ring them up and ask if they have any brands your looking for. I was up there once and its huge with great selection of everthing haha.. Much better then Pet Mania! 
Or Zooplus.IE is good if you dont mind ordering online.
Yeah I'm starting to feed RAW now cause all I can get in Kilkenny is Red Mills Dog Food. 
Heres a good forum that really helped me, might help you 
TopDog.ie - Top For Dogs - Raw & BARF Diet FAQ


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

That's brilliant, thanks. Yeah the only brands PetStop here sells is Royal Canin, Red Mills and Pedigree. The shopkeepers always push me to buy Royal Canin every time I go in there which annoys me since I think it's overpriced for what it is. 

As for Red Mills....they do a lot of chicken feed. My girls HATE it though. Don't know why. So I haven't ever bothered with it cuz if my chickens won't eat it (and they'll eat anything), than I doubt the dog will!


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

Yeah Rio was on the Royal Canin for a while but I found a few review sites and it was one of the lowest on the lists. Sure Ireland is mad for Royal Canin and when you look at whats in it, its shocking 

*Ingredients:* Rice, dehydrated poultry meat, maize flour, animal fats, vegetable protein, maize, maize gluten, hydrolysed animal proteins, vegetable fibres, beet pulp, minerals, vegetable oil, fish oil, yeast, fructo-oligo-saccharides, sodium polyphosphate, hydrolysed yeast extract, green tea and grape extracts, Dl-methionine, egg powder, hydrolysed crustaceans, L-tyrosine, L-carnitine, hydrolysed cartilage.

I've read some very good reviews for ACANA (Grassland Variety), Applepaws, Fish 4 dogs, Orijen (Six Fish), ASHENBANK (Lamb Casserole) and Taste of the Wild (High Prairie). They seem to be the top end of the lists I can find. Raw is WAY cheaper through.


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

Aw, my friend in Bray used to have a GSD named Rio. He was a Dublin Harbour Police Dog. Incredible, he was.

I dunno why Ireland is so mad for Royal Canin either. It kinda wrecks my head cuz when you see the ingredients, it isn't much better than Pedigree, but it's double the price. My dogs vet office has a massive wall of it for sale. They must get commission or something from the RC company! lol

Can I ask...what would be a typical day of raw food be for your dog? What do you give her exactly, and how many meals a day?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Rua said:


> I know a few chicken farmers who give their hens actual cooked chicken occasionally, but I have a huge issue with that. I don't mind giving them a bit of beef or pork every now and then, but I feel like giving them any cooked chicken is cannibalism. LOL


And what's wrong with cannibalism, your chickens would ask?  Chickens have no such compunction about eating anything, including each other, given the chance. They are opportunistic omnivores and nothing goes to waste. I will often toss them a chicken carcass after we are done with it, and they pick those bones so clean you'd think they were boiled. As far as I know, there aren't any prions that should be a concern with poultry. 

I also feed eggshells back to the chickens, and when I have a bumper crop of eggs, I will boil them, mush them up and feed them back.

Since you raise your own chickens, you have a wonderful source of fresh free-range eggs and meat right in your backyard, why not go with a raw diet for your pup?


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

Freestep said:


> And what's wrong with cannibalism, your chickens would ask?  Chickens have no such compunction about eating anything, including each other, given the chance. They are opportunistic omnivores and nothing goes to waste. I will often toss them a chicken carcass after we are done with it, and they pick those bones so clean you'd think they were boiled. As far as I know, there aren't any prions that should be a concern with poultry.
> 
> I also feed eggshells back to the chickens, and when I have a bumper crop of eggs, I will boil them, mush them up and feed them back.
> 
> Since you raise your own chickens, you have a wonderful source of fresh free-range eggs and meat right in your backyard, why not go with a raw diet for your pup?


I know, you're right! I shouldn't have an issue with it. I don't know why - I just have this fear if I give them chicken they'll start getting a taste for eating each other. LOL Completely unfounded and ridiculous I know. And anyway, we don't know the half of what those poor battery hens and store bought chickens go through in their lifetime, so I'm just happy that my girls have a far better life here. I do the same with our bumper crops of eggs too. The shells are brilliant for the hens. 

And Juno loves eggs. I was giving her one a day, but stopped after the runs started in case the eggs were a bit too rich for her. Once I sort out her main diet, I'll get her back on the eggs again. 

Up until recently, I used to keep Muscovy ducks. In fact, I still have a massive drake in my freezer. He'd make a good start to Raw food, I suppose. And I recently had to cull 14 of my Roos, one of which is still in my freezer too. Sure, I'm set!  Though, my husband will probably fight me on giving the last Roo to the dog. LOL

Do ye ever give any sort of kibble on a raw diet? Or is it just Raw through and through?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I actually feed kibble as well as raw. My older GSD couldn't keep weight on with raw, so I feed her a high-quality kibble. My GSD pup eats mostly raw, some kibble, and my Akbash dog eats mostly kibble and an occasional raw meal (and as many fresh eggs as he can forage). I'll feed raw and kibble on the same day, but always at seperate meals.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Trying this subforum: B.A.R.F./Raw Feeding - German Shepherd Dog Forums

It has sample menus, tips, and lot more.
This website also has a nice 30 day menu: Raw dog food | Raw diet | Raw dog food recipes


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

Those links are fantastic. Thank you all for so much great advice. I've got a lot of homework to do!


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

Freestep said:


> You'd be amazed at what chickens eat... if they are free-ranging as they should be, they'll be eating bugs, worms, grubs, picking morsels out of other animals' poop, etc, so a bit of dog or cat kibble seems pretty benign to me. However, who knows what kind of things are put into dog kibble--some things I am sure are not meant for food-producing animals.


Oh, I know chickens will eat pretty much anything! But I'm ok with most of the things they eat... The reason I wouldn't feed them a crappy man made dog food is because the things they put in there aren't natural and are very harmful... I'd rather the chicken I'm eating ate a rat than crappy dog food! (I had a friend who's chickens would kill and eat mice!)


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

e.rigby said:


> The reason I wouldn't feed them a crappy man made dog food is because the things they put in there aren't natural and are very harmful


Funny thing is the same could be said about McDonald's food, but that doesn't stop very many people (even those who claim to eat healthy) from eating it. But that's a topic for another thread I think! 

I reckon if you can go the extra mile and really try your best to eat well (and feed your animals well) then that's brilliant. But unfortunately in this life, processed foods are quite often far more accessible than healthy foods are and so that line gets crossed a lot, even when you don't intend for it to.

I get a lot of flack from my friends because I kill and eat my own chickens. "That's gross!" and "How can you do that?" and so on....My response is always the same. "You have no trouble walking into a grocery store to buy and eat a factory reared chicken, where you haven't got a clue what sort of life it's had or food it's eaten. At least I know my hens have all had a very good life and were fed well."

Honestly, even if I do feed my hens the left over bag of Pedigree, they will still have a better diet and life than any store bought chicken has. 

Now, if I could teach them to kill mice, that would be something!


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

catz said:


> Maxi Zoo is in Naas, ya can get the directions off their site. I'd ring them up and ask if they have any brands your looking for. I was up there once and its huge with great selection of everthing haha.. Much better then Pet Mania!


Hey Catz, I went to Maxi Zoo today. They've opened the biggest one in Ireland over in Finglas, not too far from me. 

I ended up buying a bag of Select Gold (I thought I was buying Solid Gold and didn't realise my mistake till I got home.). It's not the best food in the world but it's better that the Pedigree. 

I got Juno a load of toys in there as well. I can't go into any petshop without coming out with a heap of squeaky toys for her. I'm hopeless. LOL


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

Thats great that there is one close to you. I wish they'd open one in Kilkenny. My OH wont let me go into pet shops anymore haha.. if we need something he'll go in and get it or else we'd come out with armfulls of stuff. We drove up to visit my family when we noticed the Maxi Zoo in Naas and decided to have a look.. came home with a hamster cage, ferret toys and loads of stuff for Rio  Ya can't go in there and get nothing!


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

you could try purina pro plan, and toss your pup a quarter of a chicken for one meal, and kibble for another....(since you have chickens)


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