# Is a pinch collar mandatory for a GSD?



## doggerel (Aug 3, 2011)

I don't have a GSD yet--my husband and I hope to adopt one in a few months--but this is a question I've been wondering about since starting my research on the GSD.

Several GSD owners I've talked with have told me that it is absolutely essential to use a pinch/prong collar with your GSD. I'm not so keen on using them myself--I've often heard that dogs just stop responding to the pinching after a while, and my experience with dogs on prong collars is exactly that; they don't even react with the collar on--so I'm wondering what your advice is.

Do you think that it's a "must have" for a future GSD owner? Are there any better alternatives? (I'm fond of a strong martingale collar, but I don't know if anyone's had success with those with their GSDs.)

Thanks so much for your advice!


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Is it mandatory? NO
Stop responding to the Prong? You must not be using it correctly.
Is it a useful tool? YES! Specially till you do some extensive training and your dog learns manners.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

It depends both on the dog and how you train them up front. 

It is a good tool when necessary. 

I have one that has never needed one, another that has.

Not sure how it will work out with the puppy. Hope to not need one.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm going to be watching this, as my pup is 7 months old and 70+ lbs. So far all he's ever worn is a flat buckle collar. He loose-leash walks great, but just recently started pulling when he sees something like a dog or a person he HAS TO MEET. I'm working with him right now to see if I can get him past it on just his collar, but I have to really hold on. I'm kind of wondering if a prong would even make a difference, since he has long hair and a trainer I met today said if they have a high pain tolerance (or for discomfort) it might not really affect them. I can pull burrs off of Rocket's stomach area without so much as even a look from him, and he doesn't care about getting shots or his nails dremmeled so I'm wondering....

I am looking forward to the thread responses. I may end up with one, especially as he gets a bit bigger, LOL. :crazy:


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

May I suggest adding a poll to this thread asking that question.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Having only ever owned one GSD, I can't speak for whether they're mandatory for all GSD's but I can tell you that it's a must for our girl. However I also use the gentle leader on her when we're out walking and we're working on reactivity issues. We've found the prong doesn't help her behavior issues (revs her up more...) but for obedience training it was a must. It is also on her most of the time in the house (supervised of course!) with a pull tab so I can quickly get her attention if she focuses too intensely on something.

Long story short, I don't think you should automatically throw a prong on your new dog but don't be against adding new tools to your "training bag."  Good luck on your new addition!


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I always walk my dogs with their prongs on.


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Same here, I use the prong to walk my boy. If it were not for the prong I would not be able to walk him, with the prong I have complete control.


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## MrsWoodcock (Oct 21, 2010)

Ive always used a prong, UNTIL recently.. Ive been doing hard work on being able to walk them without the prong. COME TO REALIZE. They respect the prong... not me. lol Its going great with Max, he has moments, but is sensitive to vocal commands, female Ruby its a pain in the rear and slow going but worth it i think (until she see's a squirrel or dog... or person...)
I suggest trying with LOTS of positive reinforcement... a lot of pups don't need more than a pop with a flat collar. 
I do like a prong when needed though... only when needed.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

I didn't need one with Ditto. I wouldn't use one (personal preference) but many people recommend them. But it is not essential in having a well behaved German Shepherd.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

NOTHING is mandatory for a German Shepherd except food, water, shelter, vet care, exercise, and lots of love.

A prong collar (pinch collar) is just another training tool that helps you get the desired result, which is a dog that walks nicely on the leash. There are plenty of other training tools that accomplish the same thing - head halters, front-clip harnesses, choke chains, e-collars, flat buckle collars, martingales, regular harnesses.

You will notice that I said "training tool" twice. That's because the collar is only just that. A tool to reach your training goal - having a dog that walks nicely regardless of what collar or leash he's wearing. The collar shouldn't be an easy fix so you don't have to train (in which case the dog will only walk nicely when on that collar), but instead it is an aid in training your dog.

Anyone who says a prong collar is absolutely necessary for a German Shepherd is not using it at a tool but instead has become reliant on it to control their dog.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

With proper training there is no mandatory need for a prong. AbbyK9 summed it up perfectly.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

What GSDBESTK9 said...I use one in certain situations and it's never failed.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

I used a prong with Echo then moved to an e-collar. There are actually some situations where he's more responsive to the prong.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

It depends on how one uses the prong and what the purpose of its use is. Certainly a blanket statement about its appropriateness for all GSDs can not be made.

I have several GSDs that do not need it even for walking and never did. With my young go-go boy, I found one useful at first to save my shoulder. I use a prong sometimes in training but it is with a specific technique for specific skills. So it all depends on the dog and the reason for and application of the tool..


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

I have every intention on never having to use one or anything like it. I expect my GSD to be able to behave without the use of anything but a plain old leather collar. 

... I just hope I'm not going to eat those words in a few months.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

As others have said.. nothing is a must with GSDs. It is a tool and can be helpful to teach the dog not to pull however if your looking at rescues they can generally tell you if the dog is good on leash and if they are then its not an issue.



RocketDog said:


> I'm going to be watching this, as my pup is 7 months old and 70+ lbs. So far all he's ever worn is a flat buckle collar. He loose-leash walks great, but just recently started pulling when he sees something like a dog or a person he HAS TO MEET. I'm working with him right now to see if I can get him past it on just his collar, but I have to really hold on. I'm kind of wondering if a prong would even make a difference, since he has long hair and a trainer I met today said if they have a high pain tolerance (or for discomfort) it might not really affect them. I can pull burrs off of Rocket's stomach area without so much as even a look from him, and he doesn't care about getting shots or his nails dremmeled so I'm wondering....
> 
> I am looking forward to the thread responses. I may end up with one, especially as he gets a bit bigger, LOL. :crazy:


just to respond to this Jinx responds VERY well to the prong when I use it and she has long thick hair and a VERY high tolerance to pain.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Awesome! What do/did you use it for? Walking?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I started using one at about 6 or 7 months with Aiden, when he began to reach close to 70 pounds and had no previous leash training. I also do Schutzhund, and use it as a training tool quite often. 

I don't need it anymore to walk him. He learned how to heel correctly with it, and now knows the command well enough to be walked without it. I do use it when I know I am going to be in a high traffic area, like a pet store, just to avoid any crazy situations. I also use it when it's icy or snowy or really rainy and I don't want to risk slipping god forbid he decided to chase a squirrel or something.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't think that it's necessary but it can be handy, and a good tool for some situations. I never bike ride with her without one because I want more control to get her attention when we see things like squirrels or other dogs. Neither Sasha nor my golden have ever stopped responding to it. I will say that my use of it has been very different between the two of them. Sasha is very sensitive, so I don't have to use it as much. I more use it when we're out and about and she is purposefully ignoring a command (such as "leave it" when we see another dog or sit, or whatever). She's stubborn as a mule and a normal collar correction or vocal correction doesn't always register with her. I like to have it on her when we go to pet stores too. It just makes me feel like I have a bit more control in situations where I may need it. For every day stuff? We don't really use it much.

My golden was much less sensitive and way bigger and stronger than me when I was working with him. So for him it was more about giving me a better chance at controlling him. He probably had me by 30-40lbs, so if he decided to take off I ended up just getting drug. The prong helped me stop him, and eventually correct his tendency to just take off after something. 

So, long story short I don't think it's necessary but it can be a useful tool at certain times. You just have to know your dog. I wouldn't use one on a puppy, but on adult dog that needed a little extra reason to listen, absolutely.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It's not needed but you will only know that after you get your dog and they turn about 6 months old. Some are extremely drivey and when they want something they won't stop. My dog didn't react at all to a martingale collar, so we went to the prong, now we are working off of the prong and onto a choke.

The only thing that I have noticed is that dogs don't react to OTHER collars when they get used to the prong collar. It took my boy a few walks to realize he still has to obey even without the prong collar on. I don't think there's a dog on this earth that won't react to a good prong collar correction.


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

In my experience it's only needed for large male dogs. One of my girls uses a halti and the other has a front harness. My male required a prong.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

A prong would just ramp Woolf up. I do use a martingale with good results.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

CeCe said:


> In my experience it's only needed for large male dogs. One of my girls uses a halti and the other has a front harness. My male required a prong.


I have the opposite, my male is fine on a regular leather collar and my 2 girls both have incredibly high prey drive so they go out with a prong.
I have always used a prong if needed specially walking 3 dogs together. I need 100% control no matter what crosses our path. 
I decided I wanted to try Lakota with a harness, I picked one up at walmart and tried it out this morning. I think she likes it. She's a very delicate little "princess" and even though her prong is medium sized I know she's not thrilled with it on. She walks perfectly fine on a loose lead untill she sees deer. On our walks we come across them all the time and if she sees one thats it. If she picks up fresh scent she gets into a frenzy sniffing for it. This morning there were plenty of fresh tracks but the dogs didn't get to see any deer, so the jury is still out on the harness but I think I like it and she seemed very easy in it.


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## doggerel (Aug 3, 2011)

This is all really helpful; thanks so much, everyone, for your input and for sharing your experience. I appreciate being reminded to think of such a device as a tool--and not as something immediately essential for every GSD. Thanks again! I'll keep you all posted on what I learn with my future dog... (And will probably come here often for lots of advice!)


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## MrsWoodcock (Oct 21, 2010)

CeCe said:


> In my experience it's only needed for large male dogs. One of my girls uses a halti and the other has a front harness. My male required a prong.


My experience is the opposite.  My male is very sensitive to me "scolding" verbally... all i have to say is HEY, or AH! once loudly and he looks back like my bad... lol My female ruby on the other hand.... WOW.... such a puller, its hard trying to get her to learn without the prong, she is SENSITIVE to it... but only when a quick tug happens... she will pull while "pronged" 

Every walk is a training session lol


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I pretty much only use martingales.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Kittilicious said:


> I have every intention on never having to use one or anything like it. I expect my GSD to be able to behave without the use of anything but a plain old leather collar.
> 
> ... I just hope I'm not going to eat those words in a few months.


:rofl: Haha you might. Wow these dogs are strong!



doggerel said:


> This is all really helpful; thanks so much, everyone, for your input and for sharing your experience. I appreciate being reminded to think of such a device as a tool--and not as something immediately essential for every GSD. Thanks again! I'll keep you all posted on what I learn with my future dog... (And will probably come here often for lots of advice!)


Tool really is the key word. That's all I think of it as. My future intentions are to get away from the prong, but he's young, he's very strong and he's basically only just begun in training. As we get further along, we will certainly ramp up obedience and tone down the need for the prong control.

I very well might always use the prong in unknown environments, though.

But please don't think about a prong as a torture device, as some naysayers will make you believe. It gives the owner a great deal of control over a large, powerful dog. I'm not a "small" woman, but I'm not as strong as my dog.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

I only use one on Sheldon because he loves to greet people a little...enthusiastically. We're trying to get it under control before a camping trip. Other than that, he walks great on a flat buckle collar. 

Not to hijack a thread or anything, but do any of your dogs limp when they start pulling? When I walked Sheldon the other day, he started pulling towards some people, and then started limping...as soon as he stopped pulling, he stopped limping =/ It was in the middle of his neck, much higher than his flat collar, so i'm pretty sure it was on correctly.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Definitely not mandatory. I've never used a pinch/prong collar on my GSD and it is not a tool that I will use. She was leash reactive and had poor leash manners when I got her, and her previous owner's use of the prong made it worse, to the extent that any pressure on her neck would way lower her reactivity threshold. I have used a Halti headcollar with her and it has helped a lot and allowed me to work on her training and reactivity issues, although I would not recommend the Halti for everyone unless you already know how to use it as a training tool. I have gotten her 90% over her reactivity now and she can now walk on a flat collar without an issue.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

We began use of a pinch collar a few months ago when Stella decided she wanted to chase ducks while on our morning walks. She almost got us both killed.

Now we walk without incident because of the few corrections and re-direction I was able to give her after a few pops on the pinch.

Stella is a good sized, strong dog at 70 pounds/ 1 year. I am not the biggest gal in the world at just 5feet. The pinch works well for me.


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

From my experience, a pinch/prong collar is great for making walks much easier and providing more control over the dog.

The only problem is that if the dog is nervous or fearful in some situation, corrections and pain from the prong can actually make things worse.


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## badcalorie (Oct 6, 2011)

I used to use a prong on my older female, but don't (well sort of don't) anymore. The prong really helped get her walking skills down. When we go walking now, I put the prong on but I actually leash to her normal collar. For some reason, just having the prong on without even having to use it changes her whole state of mind when we are walking.


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## warpwr (Jan 13, 2011)

We always used a choke type steel collar at obedience training on our Shepherds.
The rest of the time Miss Molly wears a regular soft collar.
Maybelline has only ever worn a scarf (and a soft cloth collar during training).

I doubt that Guide Dog German Shepherds are trained with any type of pinch collar, so it's kinda up to you and your dog if you want or need that type but it's certainly not mandatory.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

The are tools to supplement your handling skill. Your voice, demeanor, and mutual respect with the dog are the most effect tools, albeit the hardest to master, and the only required tools


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

We have 8 German Shepherds currently. None of them have had a prong on them for training. (Well, the one we imported from Germany at 10 mos may have). 3 of ours will be going for their Schutzhund titles this spring, maybe 4 if we can get going on her.


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## doggerel (Aug 3, 2011)

Thanks, everyone!

If I do feel like I need a prong after bringing my dog home, do you know of any helpful articles/websites/instructional materials to help me use it? 

I've walked dogs with prongs before, but with little to no effect. I want to be sure to use it properly if I do need to get one. Any advice is welcome!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think that the liersberg site does instruct in how to fit them properly on the dog -- then they do look like torture devices, but if you are getting no effect, it sounds like an issue with how they are fitted.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

The Leerburg article on how to properly fit a prong collar is located here - Leerburg | How to fit a Prong Collar

In my humble opinion, I think that the prong collar used in those instructions is much too large in size for the dog. I like to go with the smallest prongs that I can use on the dog (depends on their coat). The bigger the prongs, the more of the dog's neck will have the chain part on it, instead of the prongs.


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