# Dog park behaviour. Harmless or aggressive?



## travistee (Oct 31, 2009)

We have been taking Kiai to dog parks as our solution to givng him enough exercise. Its the only place he can run until he gets tired. We don't have a fenced yard. Kiai is a male one year old, not neutered.

He seems to be dominant and will play well with small dogs and even back off if they bark at him. With larger dogs he will growl or bark at them and chase them. Sometimes he gets into a high stance with his tail up and just stands there. The other dogs will keep back.

Once he played with a friends dog, a male 4 year old, who was on his home territory. At that time Kiai was 9 months old. He made a low growl and the other dog made a loud growl, then grabbed Kiai by the skin of his neck and led him a short distance, then chased him around. That time Kiai got the message and learned that he was not the pack leader here.

Yesterday we were at a dog park. There was only one other dog there. It was a 7 month old male. I think it was a GSD mix. I don't know what set him off but, he made a loud growl like the dog I described before. He chased the other dog growling and snapping at him. The other dog ended up on his back with Kiai's paw on his chest growling loudly in his face. There was no biting. Thats when we broke it up and took him out of the dog park.

Should we be concerned about this behaviour or is it harmless.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I would say it's definitely dominance, and will probably get worse as he gets older and grows in confidence. Things that set it off could be body posture or eye contact. The problem is that some day he might meet a dog every bit as dominant and confident as he is and then you will have a full blown fight- which your dog may very well lose.

And I would not want to be the owner of the puppy your dog flipped and pinned.


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## heatherr (Jun 5, 2010)

That kind of behavior in another dog is what makes me leave the park. 

I would be concerned if it were my dog.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

A 1 year old non neutered male is just starting to get his hormones and it will only get worse. If he meets another non neutered male at the park you could be in real trouble. If you ever have to break up a fight be sure and grab from the tail and not step into it or you could really get hurt. I would either neuter him not take him to the park. They are fine when they are young but once the testosterone kicks in it's a whole different story.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

so reading this post and having an 8 month old nueterd male. it makes me wonder...

how much confidence is enough? but not too much?

one trainier who taught Schutzand (spelled wrong i know) said Cody was a little on the timid side, and that i should enroll him in schutzand to build his confidence. 

will schutzand build confiedence? what about agility? what is the right "type" of confidence? confidence that the puppy can dominate another by biting? confidence that the puppy can run faster, jump higher than the other?

am i making any sense?


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I see that behavior sometimes at our park. While I will state that it could be potentially dangerous, it can also be important lessons that dogs should learn regarding pecking order. There is a very large 2 yr old GSD at our park who starts out his visits by pretty much doing just what the OP described to nearly every dog. He has never bitten any of the other dogs and has never seemed to actually want to fight. My Max, is a pretty brave little guy at almost 5 mos., yet he responds exactly as he should. He submits, licks and squirms and within a minute or so, Baron (the big guy) is totally nice to him. The same thing plays out with the other dogs. It could be said that as long as there are good body language signs, a little bullying can be ok. I'm not super happy that it happens, but dogs can often self regulate and learn how to get along in a group that way. Btw, Baron's owner is pretty quick to make sure Baron knows that when he gets a little too overpowering, the fun stops... he gets put on leash and has to chill out a little before he can mingle again.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

I think you should be concerned....this is not a good way to act.

What do you do when this happen? Do you correct him, change his mind or do you simply leave?

Why didn't you neurtered him? Want him to "have" a litter? If you don't plan to have a litter, I think, you should neurtered him. No male, even human, would love to live an entire life without....well...you know 

I don't know for you, but my bf will be upset if he could never have "fun time". This is nature. If you want him to stay "intact", at least, have him for a date 1 or 2 times a years lol....a lot of pressure need to be released 

Don't let him act this way, it is potentialy dangerous for other dogs, but also for him. What if another intact male decided to fight back?

Neurtering him will not solve the entire problem, you need to work on the way he behave with other dogs, but at least, it will help him!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

trish07;1867359
I don't know for you said:


> I don't think this is true. At least I've never heard of this before. I've known many intact male dogs that never required 'release' to be a well behaved social dog.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

Lilie said:


> I don't think this is true. At least I've never heard of this before. I've known many intact male dogs that never required 'release' to be a well behaved social dog.


Than that is great! 

It's what we've been told (not only by vets) by many people related to "dog world"....

And based on us....and on nature...well....I thought male had to reproduce....it is hormonal....purely natural...

Hormones have a lot to do with caracter, they have a big impact, even on females (human or animal)....so....I really think that it has something to do with that kind of behaviour.

Yes they can be well behaved, but put a female in the portrait and....I'll be curious  They can smell a female in her heat from miles...even if she is not in the park or near, it could cause irritation, even to the most well behave intact male. 

But well, these are my thoughts, and I may be wrong 

My brother in law have a wonderful intact male (American Bulldog) wich is totaly well behaved with humans and other dogs, even other intact males, BUT, only a minus thing, or a single female, can change the whole attitude in second. Been there, seen it


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## Jasp (Jul 19, 2010)

You should never allow such dominant behavior. Atleast this is what was told me.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Ever heard the expression "playing with fire"? That's what you're doing and is why I don't bring my dog to dog parks. 

Sooner or later your dog is going to do this to the wrong dog and a big fights going to break out with your dog or another dog with serious injuries. Are you prepared for that?

You need to stop bringing your dog to the dog park and start working on training and other ways to socialize and exercise.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Relayer said:


> I see that behavior sometimes at our park. While I will state that it could be potentially dangerous, it can also be important lessons that dogs should learn regarding pecking order. There is a very large 2 yr old GSD at our park who starts out his visits by pretty much doing just what the OP described to nearly every dog. He has never bitten any of the other dogs and has never seemed to actually want to fight. My Max, is a pretty brave little guy at almost 5 mos., yet he responds exactly as he should. He submits, licks and squirms and within a minute or so, Baron (the big guy) is totally nice to him. The same thing plays out with the other dogs. It could be said that as long as there are good body language signs, a little bullying can be ok. I'm not super happy that it happens, but dogs can often self regulate and learn how to get along in a group that way. Btw, Baron's owner is pretty quick to make sure Baron knows that when he gets a little too overpowering, the fun stops... he gets put on leash and has to chill out a little before he can mingle again.


As someone has pointed out, the problem comes when your confident dominant wanting dog meets another with the same attitude - then a fight will almost certainly break out.
We have that problem with our 2 1/2 yo male. Baron has always been a very confident pushy dog. Our behaviorist called him a pushy "bully"!
Most of the time he is great with other dogs (and cats for that matter); only with other large dominant males does he react. But you can see where he would not go well in a dog park depending on the mix of other dogs.


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## cagirl (Apr 17, 2010)

You need to decide what you are going to do, or talk to a trainer, you are just going to get Dog park haters on your rear end with a topic like this


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

cagirl said:


> you are just going to get Dog park haters on your rear end with a topic like this


It has nothing to do with hating dog parks. The behavior described would be just as dangerous were it with a private play group. 

I went to the dog park for a year with Raven (from 4 months until 1.5 yrs old) until SHE stopped enjoying being around all the other dogs and was getting picked on by dogs behaving like the one in the OP; they singled her out because she is submissive and it boosted their confidence.

The dog park can be great for the right kind of dogs; sadly a lot of adult GSDs are not the right kind of dog for a dog park.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

cagirl said:


> You need to decide what you are going to do, or talk to a trainer, you are just going to get Dog park haters on your rear end with a topic like this


I would imagine that it depends on the Dog Park. There are tons of folks on here that love to go to Dog Parks. I don't go, because I don't have the need to. If I were to go and the park was overly crowded or if there were dogs with aggressive behaviors there, I'd just pack it up and come back another time. I wouldn't let one experiance ruin it for me or my dogs.


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## travistee (Oct 31, 2009)

We were at the dog park again today and the same thing happened with the same dog again.

Kiai does not do this to all the dogs in the park. In fact he is very gentle with them. Last time they were the only dogs there so we thought that may have had something to do with it.
Today he was doing fine with lots of dogs there. Then that dog came in.

This time we saw that the smaller dog came over to Kiai and growled at him. Kiai did not back off and it ended with Kiai's foot on the other dogs chest. If small dogs bark at him he backs away. That growl must have been a dominant growl that he felt he needed to respond to. ( see my original post describing what happened when he was the smaller dog)

We left the park.

I think that if a smaller dog wants to show he is dominant with a larger dog, then that is how they sort out the pack order. There was no biting and I think that if the dogs were left to figure it out on their own the other dog would learn not to try to be dominant with larger dogs.

One of the other people left also because she didn't want that dog to start up with her dog.

?


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Why would you not neuter a male unless he was going to breed at least twice a year? It's not fair to him to torture him with natural needs that he can't satisfy. As for his behavior, I always leave the dog park when some macho male decides to take the place over, ESPECIALLY if his idiot of an owner won't control him. Dominant behavior is one thing but persistent rudeness and/or fighting is totally uncalled for.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> Why would you not neuter a male unless he was going to breed at least twice a year? It's not fair to him to torture him with natural needs that he can't satisfy. As for his behavior, I always leave the dog park when some macho male decides to take the place over, ESPECIALLY if his idiot of an owner won't control him. Dominant behavior is one thing but persistent rudeness and/or fighting is totally uncalled for.


There are some potential health reasons not to neuter (as there are in favor of neutering) so it is not an automatic decision I don'r believe. And I don't think it is exactly "torture" for the male dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

codmaster said:


> There are some potential health reasons not to neuter (as there are in favor of neutering) so it is not an automatic decision I don'r believe. And I don't think it is exactly "torture" for the male dog.


 
Agree completely.


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## lizzkatris (Apr 29, 2010)

The standing tall with his tail straight up is very dominant. While he may not be the aggressor he very likely could be the reason a fight starts. I have a dog who also does this at the dog park. He is a little dog so I've been very involved in training him to have better doggy manners. While he's never been aggressive to another dog, I know that his behavior would be the cause of the fight. Unfortunately he will mostly likely end up on the losing end since he's only 18 lbs. I usually keep him leashed until I see his tail in a more relaxed position and he's calmed down from the excitement. After 10-20 mins I usually can let me off. If I see his behavior changing at all I leash him again and keep going. Make sure you catch him before it turns into anything, that way he's always set up for success. Also, A good walk before the doggy park is a great idea. It gets some initial energy out, establishes you as leader and doesn't unleash his built up energy on other dogs. It is also mentally stimulating. Just my opinion. I hope you find something that works for you!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

PaddyD said:


> Why would you not neuter a male unless he was going to breed at least twice a year? It's not fair to him to torture him with natural needs that he can't satisfy.


Sorry but that's just bunk. Dogs do not have 'natural NEEDS'. My boy Riggs was intact for 7 years. He was only breed once. In those 7 years he NEVER was tortured. He also wasn't around intact females all the time.

Mauser is coming up on 2 years of age, is intact and has never been breed. He HAS been around an intact female - my Chinese Crested. He's lived through 2 of her heats and while he does go off his food for a bit and gets really obnoxious and whiny during the peak of her heat, he is NOT being tortured. When she goes out of season he's back to normal.



travistee said:


> ...With larger dogs he will growl or bark at them and chase them. ... I don't know what set him off but, he made a loud growl like the dog I described before. He chased the other dog growling and snapping at him. The other dog ended up on his back with Kiai's paw on his chest growling loudly in his face. ... the smaller dog came over to Kiai and growled at him. Kiai did not back off and it ended with Kiai's foot on the other dogs chest.


These are all signs of dominance. Not necessarily a *bad* thing per day but not something you want in a dog that goes to dog parks.



> I think that if a smaller dog wants to show he is dominant with a larger dog, then that is how they sort out the pack order. There was no biting and I think that if the dogs were left to figure it out on their own the other dog would learn not to try to be dominant with larger dogs.


A dog park is NOT the place to do this. There is no 'pack' at the park - it's ever changing. Dogs want to establish pack ranking in groups that DON'T change.

My boy Mauser has been growing more and more dominant towards other dogs. His days of dog parks are on hold until he gets neutered and we see if that changes anything.

Not ALL dogs are good dog park candidates. The problem is that one day your dog could decide to take things to the next level before you can stop him and someone is going to get seriously hurt.


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## jsherry (Nov 19, 2004)

I feel for you in that it always seems that the people at dog parks seem to blame the GSDs, Rotties, and "big dogs" when something goes wrong; even when those dogs don't start it.

I would do something about the behavior. If for no other reason than to protect yourself from the ignorant dog owners at the dog park!


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## GSD_man (Oct 6, 2007)

chicagojosh said:


> ...one trainier who taught Schutzand (spelled wrong i know)


yes, it's SCHUTZ HUND 

Schutz = Protection
Hund = Dog

The funny thing about this is that the US Schutzhund sport, doesn't really have to much about protection dogs.


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## GSD_man (Oct 6, 2007)

trish07 said:


> Why didn't you neurtered him? Want him to "have" a litter? If you don't plan to have a litter, I think, you should neurtered him. No male, even human, would love to live an entire life without....well...you know
> 
> I don't know for you, but my bf will be upset if he could never have "fun time". This is nature. If you want him to stay "intact", at least, have him for a date 1 or 2 times a years lol....a lot of pressure need to be released



This is a family board Trish07. You need to keep a lot of your sexual thoughts for yourself!  :wild:


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Not all dogs are appropriate for group play and it is up to owners to be responsible enough to see and accept that. IME this sort of thing is not at all uncommon with mature GSDs, especially males. They are dogs who are very "into" their people and many bond closely to dogs they live with. IME most, at best don't have much interest in interacting with strange adult dogs once they mature. And some behave aggressively to strange dogs, who for whatever reason rub them the wrong way. Of course everyone who goes to dog parks will now say how their GSD loves it  Obviously not all dogs within a breed will behave the same way. I can say in the 9 years I worked at doggy daycare, mature GSDs proved to be one of the more difficult dogs to manage in group play. I love the breed but they were never intended to be happy-go-lucky, never-met-a-stranger sorts. 

There is no reason that your dog has to go to a dog park and learning how to bully other dogs is not really great for socialization. For GSDs, "fun time" is being with their people - think about joining a training class for obedience, agility, tracking or an activity that interests you. Take him swimming, biking or do weight pulling or other owner-dog type activities. Take your dog for hikes a Flexi or long lead or take him somewhere to let him run (use a very long line so you can get him back quickly if need be).


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