# Hair loss problems around the eye.



## boblong123 (Feb 22, 2013)

Hello everyone, I am not new to the forums; I just lost my old account and had a hard time trying to recover it. So. Yesterday, I notice Charles was losing hair around his right eyes and the wife told me it not to worry. But, this morning she had a good look at him and now she worry it too. We are going to check him in ASAP at a on-post vet. He's is 7 months old and weights around 62 pounds eating "Earthborn Coastal Catch Grain Free Dry Dog Food" around 4-6 cups (depending how active he is where we adjust between 4-6 cups a day). Other notes: I did notice he was losing or blowing throw a lot of hair 2 days ago but i thought he was shedding into his summer coat. I thought this was odd b/c his sister (not blood related and another GSD, Female ~1.8months) isn't going through the same shedding phase. He is an active puppy and we do let him exhaust himself without overdoing it. He does go to the local dog park here on post but it is seldom (3-5 times a month) and even then I haven't notice a dog with any visible health issue. Oh, sometimes we do feed them Blue Ridge Raw Meat sticks 1lb (2 cups of the same dry food noted above for dinner) only in the morning but he finished the last stick 4 days ago. He is getting a simple Oscar Myers Wieners as a training treats. No unusual dog behavior leading up or during this and is current in all shots . Include in this post are some pictures of the effective area, comparative picture of both eyes, an over view of the coat, and a picture of a simple pinch of his hair off his coat (5 pictures total): 
















































Thank you for any help in a guided discussion to better ourselves for these rare or unforeseeable events.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I would definitely vet, could be demodex mange MAYBE. If it is, and he doesn't have any other spots, then you can just boost his immune system and don't have to do treatment (just saying this for when you go to the vet - if they want to do meds, you may not need to). Demodectic Mange

Harder to see on a lighter dog but Nico had demodex (after sarcoptic): 









But there are so many other things I don't even know about that it could be! Just tossing one thing at you.


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## boblong123 (Feb 22, 2013)

Well, The vet isn't going to see us anytime soon until Tuesday at 9.30. If it is mange is their over the counter stuff I can get to start treating ahead of time?


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I would not start treating until you have been diagnosed.
The dog appears (based on photos if that is even possible ) to be rubbing his eye. Probably due to the itchies. Now this could be mange, fleas (even one flea), allergies or any number of things. 
It also looks like you caught it early.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I missed the spot lower down the muzzle from the eye.... that does look more like demodex.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

But like Mary said, I wouldn't do anything until Tuesday. 

ETA - I didn't do anything for the demodex on him, and another foster who just had the simple, localized versions - boosting the immune system - but no medications or topicals.


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## starburst (Jun 9, 2012)

Our pup just got over mange a few weeks ago and that's exactly what her eye looked like when we took her in to see the vet.

I too recommend waiting until you see the vet though since it could be many other things.
Ours happened to find another bald spot on her paw and was able to do a skin scrapping at that location to determine that it was indeed mange.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

If it is demodex, then that is a sign that his immune system is weak. demodex is lives on all dogs, it's when teh immune system has undergone supression (as in recent vaccines or being put under for neuter etc.) or is stressed due to other illness, that this can break out.

Switching to RAW diet and/or helping the immune system with some nutritional support such as Vit. C.

Can also try "bovine colostrum" - this is extensively studied and indicated for use as an immune modulator (also for gastro-intestinal disorders, 60-80% of the immune system health starts in the gut), meaning it won't overstimulate an over-active system and will boost one as needed

also in addition or on it's own a product called "SeaCure"

"SeaVive" is a combination product of the two

I throw some links later

Regardless of the issue, assisting the body to heal itself, these items would benefit


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## boblong123 (Feb 22, 2013)

O.K. I guess I wait. I do have 2 other GSD out and about with no problems. Do I have to isolate Charles from the others? I have read mixed reviews. The same for treatment. Like in the case some people are saying it could work itself out. Is this right?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Well, it depends on how healthy they are - IF IF IF - it's demodex (no idea for sure) and they are young, old, or ill, then they could also get demodex. Demodex in it's basic/localized form is no big deal - it is when it gets widespread (generalized) that it becomes very serious. But typically, with demodex, you don't need to worry about other dogs - unless in those categories - because they probably won't show signs of having it.

If he's itchy - and I am not sure where sarcoptic usually shows up first - that is the contagious mange, and treatment is required. Usually the dog who has it gets 3 treatments of something like Revolution every 2 weeks, and the exposed dogs get one, unless symptomatic. Sarcoptic info is linked at the bottom of the Mar Vista demodex link. 

I think that is generally the confusion - IF this were mange - then 
A. What kind: demodex or sarcoptic 
B. If demodex, hat kind of demodex: local, general

With A/B you do different things. So that's why it's confusing!


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## boblong123 (Feb 22, 2013)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Well, it depends on how healthy they are - IF IF IF - it's demodex (no idea for sure) and they are young, old, or ill, then they could also get demodex. Demodex in it's basic/localized form is no big deal - it is when it gets widespread (generalized) that it becomes very serious. But typically, with demodex, you don't need to worry about other dogs - unless in those categories - because they probably won't show signs of having it.
> 
> If he's itchy - and I am not sure where sarcoptic usually shows up first - that is the contagious mange, and treatment is required. Usually the dog who has it gets 3 treatments of something like Revolution every 2 weeks, and the exposed dogs get one, unless symptomatic. Sarcoptic info is linked at the bottom of the Mar Vista demodex link.
> 
> ...


Thank you for replying. Things are making a bit more sense. The breeder told me he looks normal like for a puppy blowing its coat. Some dogs may blow more than others where some may blow and not change much and some will look like some have shaved them. I will stop by to a local pet store for some nutrients boost or something in that field.


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## boblong123 (Feb 22, 2013)

-Update-

So, Charles has Mange. He was seen today (26 Feb 13) where a skin scrape was done. It was determined to be DEMODECTIC MANGE. The vet classified it as localized mange since three visible patches is pronounced in close proximity to each other on his face. They issued me 25ml of Ivomec 10mg/mL. The instructions say: “Give 0.6mL by mouth once daily for 3 days. Then give 1.2 mL by mouth once daily until recheck in 21days. Following the checkout, I was given an informative demodectic mange information sheet and a treatment recommendation sheet. Additional information: Instructions for Charles: No heartworm prevention is needed until 30 days after last treatment for mange. Please make an apt. for recheck in 21 days. Charles will need to be treated for a minimum of 6 weeks. 

Any additional advice on things or additives to help balance his system out?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Hi - I am not sure the dosage size that would trigger an MDR1 mutation reaction but I would call and check on that: Drugs reported to cause problems in dogs that carry the MDR1 mutation. Information from the VCPL at Washington State University. It is a cheek swab test that is done through Washington State and would be something that could/should be done perhaps. 

I have never treated for demodex but know that people do. I would see if just doing the boosting of the system would be enough without the med. Definitely the generalized is very bad, needs treatment but not sure if that level is needed for treating the localized.

I might instead bring a fecal in, make sure nothing like whips is lowering the immune system. 

BUT - if you do decide to go with that, find out more about how much is needed for MDR1. 

Glad he saw a mite! And good boy Charles, that is a rough scrape for them on the face.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

When I worked in the veterinary field, we never used ivermectin for localized puppy demodex. We did sometimes use Goodwinol ointment.

Demodectic Mange

Perhaps your vet noticed swollen glands or another sign.


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## boblong123 (Feb 22, 2013)

She told me that the risk is like .0001% for any problems and boarder collies shouldn't use this product.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

boblong123 said:


> She told me that the risk is like .0001% for any problems and boarder collies shouldn't use this product.


localized is treatable with nutritional suppliments as I noted below
Bovine colostrum and/or seacure....ivermecton (pesticide) will NOT provide nutritional support to the immune sytem and further hampers it.

If using either way - you should consider boosting the health of your dog for a myriad of reasons.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

boblong123 said:


> She told me that the risk is like .0001% for any problems and boarder collies shouldn't use this product.


Okay, I know it's hard to do this, but I would have to correct this.:wild: Not saying *you* are doing anything wrong, just I would be like oh! I think you meant Aussies! And here are the numbers from this website: Breeds of dogs affected with the mutant MDR1 gene. Information from the VCPL at Washington State University. and give the printout because that is daaaaangerous. 

I believe these numbers are from dogs tested - so 1 in 10 GSDs tested has it - correct me anyone if I am wrong:


> The only way to know if an individual dog has the mutant MDR1 gene is to have the dog tested. As more dogs are tested, more breeds will probably be added to the list of affected breeds.
> *Breeds affected by the MDR1 mutation (frequency %)
> *
> 
> ...


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Colostrum Article in the American Journal of Natural Medicine | SynertekColostrum.com

AOR All Life Colostrum 120 Vegi Capsules [7263] - $26.99 : Buy Vitamins, Supplements, Health & Beauty Products Online | HealthyPlanetCanada.com

^^^^This brand I use for my dog as it is freeze dried as opposed to heat treated.

Proper Nutrition: SeaVive® - Comprehensive Immune Support

^^^^This is combo product - SeaCure and Colostrum - "Seavive"

below about SeaCure from Whole dog journal - although it is about allergies the subject is mainly about leaky gut and the effect on the immune system (re: what I noted 60-80%).
Canine Allergies and Your Dog's Health - Whole Dog Journal Article

Rockwell nutrition online sells seacure - scroll and click on more info
Seacure for Pets 100g powder by Proper Nutrition


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