# Ways to punish a puppy.



## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

My 11 week old pup is just refusing to do anything. I have the hardest time trying to train her in anything, and honestly shes trained in nothing so far. Its been little over a month now trying to house break her and still no progress on it she just pees in her crate, or floor or where ever, she will only sit when Its me and her alone and i have a visible treat, she never behaves, tears up everything. Running out of hope for this dog to do anything right. 

Is there any way to punish a dog to make them realize that's wrong. I know your not suppose to pop them or spank them.


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## Gsdlover13 (Jan 9, 2013)

nope!! the key to teaching a dog something new is patience!...they dont really get the whole "punish" concept like a human does...try teaching your dog with diffrent methods..


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Hmmm. No.

Someone please chime in here with some training threads, and a little bit about positive reinforcement.

You're right, no popping or spanking. You really don't need it, if you can get the positive reinforcement part down. And it could even make things harder in the long run. Especially with a young pup.

Have you tried some outside help? A trainer, or even a puppy class?

The trick isn't getting them to "realize that's wrong," so much as getting them to realize what's Right.

Are you using a clicker? The treat won't work if theres a time lag between the wanted behavior and the reward...and 2 seconds to a puppy is a time lag.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Is this your first GSD?

How much time every day do you interact with your dog? How many times a day do you go outside with her for her business, take her for walks, train her, and love her?

Your dog doesn' t know how to do anything unless you teach her. If you can't speak dog, you should find a trainer or you are soon going to have a very large and powerful problem on your hands.


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## empem90 (May 6, 2012)

Yup that sounds like a puppy. Punishment shouldnt really be something when it comes to training. It should be more fun based, I also think you would be hard pressed to find a pup that would listen to most commands without a treat or reward in your hand at that age. The key thing here is that you need to be consistant with all of your training, especially the potty training. I would look into a trainer if you havent already. 
As for training other things like sit and such. I personally like to train with a leash on. That way for me if they dont perform the command or do something else like lay down when i gave the sit command. I use the leash and kind of walk in circles and basically reset the pup/dog and then give another command. Thats personally what I like to do but, people with more experience and or a trainer could probably help better.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Cant find any trainers around here, I am still looking for one. She is only away from me for 4 hours out of the day everyday. The main thing making me angry is the fast is been a month and almost 2 weeks trying to house break her and still no progress. I even use a cleaner from pet smart. I take her out every 45 minutes when she is away she never pees so bring her in take her out 5 minutes repeat 3-4 times and then she just comes in and pees infront of me inside or runs to her crate and pees in it. 

I am having the hardest time trying to train her to sit, lay, stay, not to walk in faster then me on a leash ect, even with treats, and no I don't have a clicker.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Train yourself to train your puppy..no "punishment" needed.
If your pup isn't grasping what you are trying to teach, maybe look at your training methods? Engagement and focus on you are first and foremost.
Has she been checked for a UTI?
This youtube channel has some good instructional clips: http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...0.229.597.0j1j2.3.0...0.0...1ac.1.HxMIJ6P3gjw


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## Gmork89 (Jul 19, 2012)

Like GSDLover says, punishment is definitely not what you need to do right now. 11 weeks is pretty young for much training at all so don't have too high of expectations right off the bat as far as her paying attention. I jumped into it ill prepared and had a lot of the same feelings you seem to be having but don't lose hope! My pup is 9 months and turning out great, just stick with it! Take her out every hour if you can and throw a party when she pees outside correctly...

When she pees inside scoop her up fast and rush her out, then praise her when she finishes out there.

She will get the hang of it, the key is to get a good run of like 10 successful bathroom breaks in a row where she gets praised and gets treats and it will click for her.

Keep her on a lead when she is with you and crated when you're gone so she only has access to things you directly provide for her (toys, food etc). She has to know that all things good in life come from you and only when you say. 

I am coming out of what I thought was a nightmare of dog ownership and is just now turning out great, so feel free to ask anything you would like!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

seriously? punishing an 11 wk old? Yowza...

Forget obedience training - she is a baby and you are getting too far ahead of yourself. Readjust your entire attitude about her - instead of finding flaws and wondering why she isn't doing this or that....build and develop her to be the dog you wish her to be. Don't compare yourself to others - she is who she is and it is up to you to bring out the best in her.

Socialize her - take her places. http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ialize-i-want-photos-videos-puppies-dogs.html 

Bond with her - spend stress free happy time together. Short off leash hikes, walks, playing two ball, tugging, feeding her breakfast one kibble at a time, car rides, meeting your friends/family, taking her to stores for socialization when she has her shots, parks, enrolling in an obedience class and so on. 

Please read these links. 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-intro-clicker-training-perfect-puppies.html
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ick-least-important-part-teaching-tricks.html
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/development-socialization/111084-proper-exercise-puppies.html

Some dogs have trouble potty training or more commonly...the potty training is lacking  
Be consistent, fair, patient, and encouraging. Realize that she is ELEVEN WEEKS old and is a baby puppy. She has a small bladder and cannot physically hold it for many hours. She is not doing this to spite you - she is going because she biologically has an urge to urinate or defecate and she does not know what is expected of her yet. 

Potty training tips:
-Wake up, let out of crate, immediately go outside, and wait for pee/poop. Reward when she goes, don't play or engage her in any way while you are waiting for her to go, just walk in circles till she does, and then go back inside. 
-Feed breakfast, wait 5-10 mins, and take outside. Wait 30-40 mins, take out again. 
-After playing, take her out. If she stops playing and walks away during play, take her out.
-Learn to recognize the signs: sniffing the ground, walking in circles, running around frantically all of a sudden, whining, staring at you, sitting by the door, suddenly disappearing or walking far away from you...know your dog's signs and immediately take them out when you notice. 
-If there is an accident or you see her going, immediately scoop her up and take her outside to finish. Praise and reward. 
-Learn to recognize her "need to go" whine or bark when in the crate and immediately take her out. 
-Clean messes with a good enzymatic cleaner in order to rid the area of any smell so she is not tempted to go in the same spot again. 

If your eyes are not on her, she needs to be tethered to you, or in a crate. If she has an accident, and you don't see it, it's _your _fault for not managing her better. Pay more attention next time - punishing is not the answer. You will harm the bond between the two of you and create conflict with the pup if you start to correct or punish her at a young age. This conflict will make training and bonding with the pup difficult - creates issues later on that you don't want.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Yeah I have already had her checked for a uti last week and she did not have one. I do not understand what you mean by train your self, I have never trained a dog before so I just go by what I read.

Also crating her when I am not with her is almost impossible. If I am gone for 4 hours a day she will just pee in the crate within those 4 hours.

I have left her in the crate for a hour when I left to go do a few things and came back to her asleep in a pile of her own pee just laying in it like its nothing.

The crate is small enough where there is only enough room for her to stand up and the crate not touch her ears, and for her to be able to turn around just fine.

Also she gets socialized all the time, she meets new people everyday, she plays with new doggies everywhere, I dont want to take her places till she has had all her shots, so people and dogs come here.

But it feels like she just pees in her crate just so I take her back out of it to clean it, because she will only pee in it if I put her in there to get my work done, for 30-45 mins. Does not matter if I let her pee outside then bring her in put her in it, she crys for 3-4 minutes then just pees in it.


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## empem90 (May 6, 2012)

Seth08 said:


> Cant find any trainers around here, I am still looking for one. She is only away from me for 4 hours out of the day everyday. The main thing making me angry is the fast is been a month and almost 2 weeks trying to house break her and still no progress. I even use a cleaner from pet smart. I take her out every 45 minutes when she is away she never pees so bring her in take her out 5 minutes repeat 3-4 times and then she just comes in and pees infront of me inside or runs to her crate and pees in it.
> 
> I am having the hardest time trying to train her to sit, lay, stay, not to walk in faster then me on a leash ect, even with treats, and no I don't have a clicker.


First I would look-up the NILIF thread if you havent already lots of good stuff there just in general. As far as, potty training what do you do when she goes in the house? (say no and clean it up, take her out immediately, etc.) Then for the training of other things, how interested is she in the treats. is there something else that might get her attention more than treats? (certian toy, belly rub something like that) With several dogs I have worked with other things besides treats work better. Like one I found that with my uncles girl she would do anything you ask if you throw her ball. Then another friend of mines would also do anything as long as you rub his chest after.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Have you communicated with your breeder about her? How are the littermates doing? Is she submissively peeing as well?


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Where exactly are you located? People can help you find a trainer if we know where you're at. There can't be 'no' trainers there. You may have to drive a little to get to one, but it sounds like you really need the help! It's not the norm for a pup to soil its crate if the crate isn't too big. So, I wonder did the breeder keep the pups in a soiled area? You sound very, very frustrated. You have a baby, though. Maybe now isn't the best time for you to have a puppy? Would the breeder take the puppy back? Reputable breeders will keep the puppy's area clean, and the puppy will normally want their area clean....so no soiling in the crate. When you take the puppy outside and you know the puppy should go potty, you have to stay out there until the puppy goes. Sometimes this takes awhile. Then you throw the puppy a party!! If the puppy is going away from you and running into the crate to potty, then I wonder... have you been yelling at the puppy? Punishment isn't for pups this young. Punishment is way down the road, and it's only for when the dog knows something 100% and refuses to do it. This isn't the case. You need to keep things positive and happy around the puppy. It really sounds like you're in over your head, though.


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## Gmork89 (Jul 19, 2012)

This is true about finding a different object, my GSD would be distracted all over the place on walks and not care about treats or praise. So I started carrying his frisbee with me on our walks and he thinks I'm god now haha, hardly stops looking at me.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

The OP is going to have a tough time as the pup was really young when they brought it home. Maybe 6-7 weeks. (It's 11 weeks old and they've had it over a month.)


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Birmingham AL area, I have asked around and people around here say pet smart, but every review I have ever read on there training says its a waste of cash. So I am trying to find a real trainer, im sure once I attend a few weeks worth and the trainer "trains me" more then the dog I can get it right
The breeder will only take her back with no refund of the cash. I have already invested 800 bucks in the puppy, that's not including her new big crate I have put up for when she is bigger, and her toys. It would be a loss to just give the puppy back when I payed so much for her. I am getting frustrated fast, because everyone I know tells me that the dog must be stupid because their dogs were house breaking within 2 weeks and here is mine 5 and a half weeks later, with no progress on it at all. I do praise her and give her a treat but seems to not work, She is not focused enough for anything. The only toy she will play with is a plastic bottle or a ball she dislikes everything else, unless I am trying to sweep or vacumm or mop then she will chase those around and attack them. I play with her 3 times a day and walk her once, She gets 20 minute play times out side playing fetch 3 time a day and a 20-30 minute walk a day.

yeah I got her at 6 weeks so she did leave really young. My biggest fear was her not being sociable due to it, But she loves meeting new people , dogs and pups and plays with them all fine so that fear is gone.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

FLINTHILL K-9 Dog Training Truly Exceptional Education for You and Your Dog!


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> Have you communicated with your breeder about her? How are the littermates doing? Is she submissively peeing as well?


Breeder said the other pups whos people bought them are doing fine. But those people may be better at training then me as well.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

No, petsmart isn't where you want to go. Do NOT listen to people saying their dog was housebroken in 2 weeks. You got the pup too young for one thing, and your pup isn't their pup. Grim took a LONG time to housebreak! The only thing that I had going for me was that he was capable of holding it for awhile so I just increased his crate time. Then the light finally 'clicked' that he wasn't supposed to go in the house! However, that wasn't until November when we moved....so he was 4 months old! So don't worry what other dogs are doing. He was the hardest pup I've ever tried to housebreak. I think the MAIN problem you're having is that you're frustrated. Your puppy can feel all of that. She doesn't know WHY you're upset, but she knows you're upset. That's going to set both of you up to fail. Have you tried an X-pen instead of a crate? If she's in the habit of going in there (even though you're cleaning it each time), then maybe you need to change where she's at for awhile. That would give her a clean slate to work with. I will look up the link from another thread to locate trainers.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

In addition to the link I posted (I would certainly call Leah as she seemed like a good dog person when I met her), I would get a larger setup with puppy pads/newspaper as a potty area.
The more times your puppy urinates and sleeps in it, the harder it will be to housebreak her.
So if she is going to go, give her a spot to do it.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Jag said:


> No, petsmart isn't where you want to go. Do NOT listen to people saying their dog was housebroken in 2 weeks. You got the pup too young for one thing, and your pup isn't their pup. Grim took a LONG time to housebreak! The only thing that I had going for me was that he was capable of holding it for awhile so I just increased his crate time. Then the light finally 'clicked' that he wasn't supposed to go in the house! However, that wasn't until November when we moved....so he was 4 months old! So don't worry what other dogs are doing. He was the hardest pup I've ever tried to housebreak. I think the MAIN problem you're having is that you're frustrated. Your puppy can feel all of that. She doesn't know WHY you're upset, but she knows you're upset. That's going to set both of you up to fail. Have you tried an X-pen instead of a crate? If she's in the habit of going in there (even though you're cleaning it each time), then maybe you need to change where she's at for awhile. That would give her a clean slate to work with. I will look up the link from another thread to locate trainers.


Yeah I am trying to just clear my head before I try to train her anymore sense I am so frustrated from it. I just mainly want to get her to stop using it in the crate, then the house all together. I think gagsd just linked a trainer near me I am going to look at, but if you find others link them please.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I got my puppy when he was 8 weeks old, and it seemed like it took him forever to housebreak too. I didn't mind, but my DH couldn't believe that a puppy that had just been outside 15 minutes ago, could pee on the carpet, get picked up mid-stream and taken outside to finish up, and then pee inside again 15 minutes later! LOL! Don't get frustrated, and whatever you do, don't listen to anyone who insults your puppy for not being perfect at such a very young age.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/214738-trainer-website-listing.html

there are links to find trainers here


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

holy crap-on-a-cracker dude, this is just an 11 week old baby. it would be nice, and maybe some here have had, 11 week olds that hold their bladder, and sit, stay, and down..., but it's not the norm and it's way, way too much to expect. slow down a bit, get some training education yourself (many, many really knowledgeable peeps here, a few not so much maybe), but you simply must find some patience somewhere. for one thing, these dogs are very perceptive and intuitive, and i betcha your next months' salary that she's picking up on your scarey vibes. 

('pologies to the mods if i'm phrasin' this too harshly).


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Be as harsh as you want on me, Id rather learn then ruin the dogs life in some form or fashion.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I think the others are correct in that you need training to train the dog. This is what I meant when I said " if you don't speak dog...".


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## BonnieB. (Feb 13, 2013)

Do you really think the breeder is going to say any others are having these problems, doubt it so don't let it get you down. I think the best advice given was the one about tethering her to you. She is on a leash at all times with you and it's alot harder for them to do something "wrong". It's a little bit of work, but so is what you are going thru. Leerburg has a nice tape about it. Is it even legal to sell a puppy at 6 weeks? Take a look on the internet about getting a dog at 6 wks. instead of 8 weeks and it might help you to understand her better.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Yeah in alabama you can buy a dog at 6 weeks all day everyday around here I see dogs being sold at 6 weeks all the time so it must not be illegal here.


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## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

Scratching my head at why you think there are no trainers in your area. You live in one of the biggest cities in AL. Google B'ham puppy training.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Someone linked me to two, I am going to call tomorrow and find out about prices.


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## BAN-ONE (Feb 26, 2013)

Back when I had my Doberman, when he was 11 weeks old he was completely out of control. You couldn't pet him without getting bit hard, couldn't walk across the room with shoes on without them being attacked, pee'd and pooped anywhere and chewed up any and everything. I sent him to a Man's Best Friend and they kept him for 7 days and he was a changed puppy and the best dog I've ever had. Continued with the follow up training every week and it was amazing.
It took training knowledge, a sturctured plan and repetition, all of which I didn't not have.
After you get a trainer involved it will be a night and day difference. Good luck.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Seth08 said:


> Birmingham AL area, I have asked around and people around here say pet smart, but every review I have ever read on there training says its a waste of cash. So I am trying to find a real trainer, im sure once I attend a few weeks worth and the trainer "trains me" more then the dog I can get it right
> The breeder will only take her back with no refund of the cash. I have already invested 800 bucks in the puppy, that's not including her new big crate I have put up for when she is bigger, and her toys. It would be a loss to just give the puppy back when I payed so much for her. I am getting frustrated fast, because everyone I know tells me that the dog must be stupid because their dogs were house breaking within 2 weeks and here is mine 5 and a half weeks later, with no progress on it at all. I do praise her and give her a treat but seems to not work, She is not focused enough for anything. The only toy she will play with is a plastic bottle or a ball she dislikes everything else, unless I am trying to sweep or vacumm or mop then she will chase those around and attack them. I play with her 3 times a day and walk her once, She gets 20 minute play times out side playing fetch 3 time a day and a 20-30 minute walk a day.
> 
> yeah I got her at 6 weeks so she did leave really young. My biggest fear was her not being sociable due to it, But she loves meeting new people , dogs and pups and plays with them all fine so that fear is gone.


Not all Petsmarts are bad and its better then nothing right now. You can get in basic training and socialization and maybe you can get as lucky as I got with my trainer at Petsmart(its rare but it does happen) I got mine at 12 weeks and she was not fully trained until about 7 months. She did exactly what yours is doing. I don't know if your puppy pees a river, but mine did. I could not believe the amount of pee that came out of her:crazy: She should go outside after she wakes up, after she plays, after she eats/drinks...you will be outside a lot. Take her out on a leash to potty, praise and treat when she does. I had to re-evaluate everything I was doing and I was the problem. Once I got my head straight everything else fell into place. Don't rush her, even in training you should work on one thing at a time..


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> *************. learn how to train and
> socialize. find a trainer.
> 
> 
> ...


I just talked talked to a trainer, as soon as I get 480$ saved up she will get 6 hours of training, so in a couple weeks she will.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

That is pricey! Are there other options?


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

That is rather steep. I'm glad I'm able to train my own to my standards.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

No way would I pay $80 an hour for training. outrageous,especially for puppy foundation.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

thats the one someone linked me to on this fourm flinthill, she said that training a puppy from 7-16 weeks its 250 for the first session then 110 for the next 3, and she does 4 sessions, they are private sessions she said. I guess thats all she does, or thats just how she starts it.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

IMO, you should *never* punish a puppy. It's all about teaching them what IS right, and PRAISE them for that, and ignore/dont reward the bad behavior. They quickly catch on that you like when they do a certain thing...

If she is tearing things up...is anyone watching her? If not she should be crated. Use bitter apple spray and spray it on things she is interested in chewing that you dont want her to chew on. Does she have enough things she IS allowed to chew on? Nylabones, kongs, bully sticks etc?

Take her potty literally every hour. If she doesnt potty when your out and you know she has to go, crate her and try again in 10 mins. Praise her IMMENSELY when she potties outside. Take her to the SAME spot every time. Is her crate divided? Is it too big? If she has too much room they will soil one side of it and lay on the other. 

And if she only sits when its you and her, you need to catch her attention! Become the most interesting thing to her...play with her, engage with her! I think you need to start by building a positive FUN foundation with your puppy, and then the training will come easier..

Good luck.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Katie is right. It's always easier to teach proper behavior than to correct unacceptable behavior.

Stop bad behavior before it starts.

But again, it comes back to being able to communicate with your dog (speaking dog) to get him or her to do what you want them to do. If you can't communicate with the dog, you will get nowhere.

You need to learn how a dog thinks and processes information.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Seth08 said:


> thats the one someone linked me to on this fourm flinthill, she said that training a puppy from 7-16 weeks its 250 for the first session then 110 for the next 3, and she does 4 sessions, they are private sessions she said. I guess thats all she does, or thats just how she starts it.


Puppies can't deal with an hour long session....find a group class first and read some of the threads here on puppy housetraining. 
I do private lessons and pay $30 for a session and that is way more than an hour, but we break it up into different exercises so my dog doesn't get bored. 

A baby pup can't handle more than 10 minutes at a time. And they should always do just one or two things in a session then have time in a crate to process what they just learned. Group class is a bit different with downtime, so the class may last an hour, but your pup isn't working for that length as in a private lesson. 
Though....the lesson will be training you right along with your puppy so more time spent on *you*! 
I'd search around and choose your options before committing to that investment.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said but I think that a 'group' puppy class would be more beneficial as you can learn basic training and socialize at the same time plus group classes are often less expensive then private training.

I'm in a 6 week intermediate group class with my pup right now and it was only $80 for the whole course. I'd reserve private training for a dog that has more specialized needs, of course that is my opinion. And your puppy is not doing anything an 11 week old baby shouldn't be doing, this is all normal! YOU just need some guidance on how to handle it... They say there's a reason puppies are so cute!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

doggiedad, you 'ol silver tongued devil you, nobody deserves punishment for lack of knowledge on a subject. 

seth, is it only the financial investment that makes you want to keep this little girl? has your heart become invested in her, or is the annoyance and frustration so far too great. i didn't read the part about her being only six weeks old when you got her...that in itself will create a bit (okay, maybe more than a bit), more work for you, and you'll need an emotional investment in her, a STRONG desire to LEARN how to train her, and a WHOLE LOT of patience. with the proper motivation you could even likely learn from good books and the experience on this board, but without a strong love for the dog and the frequently aforementioned patience, it'll be an uphill struggle. i wish you much good luck, and sendin' you an extra bunch of patience across the miles.


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## zekni (Jul 3, 2012)

First of all, your puppy isn't old enough to take to classes. She doesn't have all her shots yet, and her attention span is so short, you're not going to get much benefit from taking with her when she can't focus that long. You're next post will be "how can I punish my puppy for acting out at training class?". 
Why don't you find out when petsmart or some other place is having a training class, and you go watch, just you without your puppy, and see what they're doing, then start working with her at home in 3-5 minute POSITIVE sessions. As soon as you start getting frustrated, stop. If you're frusterated, don't even start working with her.
Second, you have a puppy. Get over the potty training. She's going to have accidents in the house. She's going to pee and poop in her kennel, she's going to play in it and you're going to come home to a puppy covered in urine and feces who wants to jump all over you and cover you in urine and feces. You're going to have to clean her kennel and wash her again and again. And you're very likely going to be doing it for the next six months to a year, because a year from now, she'll still be a puppy. Crate train her. She's going to have accidents, you have to clean them. She'll have accidents again, and you'll repeat. Eventually she'll get it right, but it might be a LONG time from now. Stop getting mad at her, because YOU bought a PUPPY. 

If you're frusterated already, a puppy probably wasn't for you, you have a LONG road ahead of you.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

i have to say about the description of the difficulty of potty training as stated by zekni above...whoa, not necessarily...not necessarily "again and again for the next year". i think she's confused and a little bit weirded-out by your frustration (i.e., anger) vibe. these dogs are INCREDIBLY fast learners. you wanna problem with training, get an old english sheepdog...now there's a dog that it might take a year to housetrain, lolol (no offence to oes owners out there).


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

zekni said:


> Second, you have a puppy. Get over the potty training. She's going to have accidents in the house. She's going to pee and poop in her kennel, she's going to play in it and you're going to come home to a puppy covered in urine and feces who wants to jump all over you and cover you in urine and feces. You're going to have to clean her kennel and wash her again and again. And you're very likely going to be doing it for the next six months to a year, because a year from now, she'll still be a puppy. Crate train her. She's going to have accidents, you have to clean them. She'll have accidents again, and you'll repeat.


This is not necessarily true. It doesn't (well it shouldn't) take a year to house train a puppy. My puppy was completely house trained by 3.5 months old. He never once soiled in his crate, and has never been covered in his own feces/urine. If you are diligent, potty training is by far the easiest thing to train. Of course, now since she is used to potty-ing inside and in her crate, it's going to be difficult to UNtrain that, but be diligent with taking her out. Seriously. Take her out first thing in the morning. Set an alarm if you have to!  Carry her to the spot. Once she potties, REWARD HER! Have a friggen party. Take her out EVERY 30 mins to an hour when she is up and playing. Take her out when she wakes up from a nap. Take her out after she eats or drinks a lot, take her out before bed, wake up and take her out in the middle of the night if you have to! Get her on a schedule though, and once she is getting it, slowly reduce the amount of times you take her out.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

*great* potty training suggestions katie-from-the-windy-city, lolol...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

zekni said:


> First of all, your puppy isn't old enough to take to classes. She doesn't have all her shots yet, and her attention span is so short, you're not going to get much benefit from taking with her when she can't focus that long. .


This is not true. I got my puppy when she was 12 weeks old and she was in classes at 13 weeks. She did better then dogs that were older then her. Puppies at this age follow their owners and are very impressionable. Now is the time to start.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

I seem to of caused more of a a fight, then a answer to my questoins, sorry guys.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

nah, don't feel that way seth...internet message boards can be brutal, lol, but there's some incredibly helpful information here in this thread. and there are caring, helpful, and knowledgeable people on this board, the ones who are rude you just have to take with a grain of salt (easier said than done sometimes, i know). blunt is okay...rude just turns people off and insults them, so they give up and leave without the benefit of the help that is available here. hope you don't do that. 

also hope you understand my asking you about the investment versus love for the dog. the reason i did that is because my personal opinion is that not wanting to loose your investment may not be enough to overcome the frustration you're feeling with this puppy. only love for her will do that. athena is beautiful...they can sure be a handful tho. but they are SO special, i'll leave you with a quote that's been in my family for years, "there's only two kinds of dogs, german shepherd dogs...and those who wish they were". take care.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Different dogs learn at different rates, and not all dogs can learn as early as others. There are no rules. People are debating about what their experiences are and not what everyone else experiences.

Lisl was sitting on command and giving a paw at eight weeks. However, she didn't get the hang of crate training until she was around 12 weeks, and she still is not consistant with 'stay'.

Dogs are a lot like people in regards to learning. It helps too, to have a good teacher.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

I love the dog more then just the investment, but there are those times she gets on my last nerve and I just want her to leave me alone for a hour. I would never want to give her up, i just want to get her trained the right way either by me or a trainer is all. Thats why I posted this because I know ALOT of people who pop or spank there dogs to train them, I also know alot of people who are against it, and I know alot of people who do this and that. I personally am against poping or spanking so I simply wanted to know if the best method of going by training was to punish for bad behavior by timeout, ignoring, taking away toy ect, or if it was to go the other route and ignore it yet redirect and praise. 

Another thing is I was curious on how much I should spend for a trainer before I jump at the first trainer I find and end up spending 4x as much as I should.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

> "there's only two kinds of dogs, german shepherd dogs...and those who wish they were".


I love this! 

And OP, I hope you do take the helpful information from this thread..a lot of good advice.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I don't think 11 weeks is too young for puppy classes, the class I used to go to accepted pups as young as 8 weeks as long as they had their first round of shots. I don't think there's any reason to put it off.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

It would be great to find a trainer that would train you and the dog so you learn to understand how dogs learn the things they do.

That indeed will be a great trainer because once you know how to communicate to your dog you can teach him anything.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Carriesue said:


> I don't think 11 weeks is too young for puppy classes, the class I used to go to accepted pups as young as 8 weeks as long as they had their first round of shots. I don't think there's any reason to put it off.


shes already had her 2nd round of shots^^ so shes one step ahead  

But any idea how much I should pay for a trainer/puppy classes?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I did not read everything, but just from the OP, if you're getting angry, then your puppy will become more and more confused and unable to learn what you want her to learn.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Seth08 said:


> shes already had her 2nd round of shots^^ so shes one step ahead
> 
> But any idea how much I should pay for a trainer/puppy classes?


I took some puppy classes at our local humane society, the trainer was really good and I liked her... the puppy class was I think somewhere between $100-150 for 5 weeks. It's nice because you get to learn but also the puppies will get to play together so she'll get to learn some social skills, something they miss out on doing with their littermates if you take them before 8 weeks. It's one reason why it's not recommended to take them before 8 weeks because they learn crucial skills from playing with their littermates in that time. It's not the end of the world of course but it is the law in some states so something to consider.

So for a group class probably anywhere from 80-200 depending on your area, I think 80-100 is more common though with 200 being a bit more on the pricey end. I'd look into maybe local obedience clubs, canine training facilities, humane societies and petco/petsmart being last options. You can just type in puppy classes in your area on google and see what it comes up with.

*disclaimer - some vets will argue with you on not taking your puppy out before it's had all it's vaccines but if you do that you won't be taking it out until it's past the crucial socialization age. It is a risk but you have to kind of weigh the risks and I'd rather have my dog well socialized, especially since GSD's are big dogs with a bad rap. You can also talk to your vet and see if there's any diseases like parvo and if you're in a high risk area or not.


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## Seth08 (Jan 27, 2013)

Carriesue said:


> I took some puppy classes at our local humane society, the trainer was really good and I liked her... the puppy class was I think somewhere between $100-150 for 5 weeks. It's nice because you get to learn but also the puppies will get to play together so she'll get to learn some social skills, something they miss out on doing with their littermates if you take them before 8 weeks. It's one reason why it's not recommended to take them before 8 weeks because they learn crucial skills from playing with their littermates in that time. It's not the end of the world of course but it is the law in some states so something to consider.
> 
> So for a group class probably anywhere from 80-200 depending on your area, I think 80-100 is more common though with 200 being a bit more on the pricey end. I'd look into maybe local obedience clubs, canine training facilities, humane societies and petco/petsmart being last options. You can just type in puppy classes in your area on google and see what it comes up with.
> 
> *disclaimer - some vets will argue with you on not taking your puppy out before it's had all it's vaccines but if you do that you won't be taking it out until it's past the crucial socialization age. It is a risk but you have to kind of weigh the risks and I'd rather have my dog well socialized, especially since GSD's are big dogs with a bad rap. You can also talk to your vet and see if there's any diseases like parvo and if you're in a high risk area or not.


I will look some, I socialize her with a few dogs, like my sisters pit, lab, chawaha, my brothers shih tzu, and poodle, and my cusions rotwhiler and german shepherd is what she has been around a few times each, She seems confused on the whole "play" thing, but she will run with them and chase them around and pounce at them, but she seems to be confused on exactly how to play with another dog, which is why I am trying to get her around more and more friendly playful dogs who are already really social. So I really want her in some classes with more and more.

Although I do have 3 free classes up at petsmart a family member gave me, So I may go to those sense its for socializing and having a run down on the basics, That way I can see how the trainer at this one is, I completely forgot I had those.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Housetraining 101: 

Whatever you are doing, just stop, cause it isn't working and the frustration you have is making it harder for her to figure it out. 

Now, pick a day where you do not have to work and load your pockets up with something delicious, if you normally give her cheese, then give her microwaved hot dogs, or bacon, or steak. But make it really good for now. Next, take her outside, and (the words do matter) go pottie, or go pee pee poo poo. And then wait. 

Have her on lead, and let her lead you around the area designated for the deed. Do not go in. If she squats and pees, let her start to stand up so you know she is done, and say in a nice soothing voice, Good pee pee Outside, yes, good girl, you went pee pee outside. What a good girl you are, and give her one of the yummie treats. 

Now, say to her go poo poo too. And wait. Wait, and wait and wait and wait and wait if you must. If she pees again, repeat the above steps. Good girl, good job, yes. If she poops, to the same thing, just sub in poo poo or poopies. 

Baby talk works on this, and so does being absolutely calm. 

Chances are she will have some accidents. But you want to teach her to go on command, so that most of the time, you are getting her out and then wow, I get yummy treats for going pee pee outside. Draw out the word Outside. Not mean, just an emphasis. Want to go Outside? Good girl, you went poo poo Out side. 

The other thing you should do is get her on a very strict schedule. Breakfast is at 7AM right after we came in from going potty. 20 minutes after breakfast, we are back out there again, once she potties, treat and bring her in. Whenever she wakes up, or eats, or plays really hard, take her out to go potty. Feed her her last meal at 6PM, and then at 7PM no more food or water -- a treat for going potty is ok, but not a lot. She will have a lot easier time staying dry all night if she is saturated with water. 

With my adults, I wake up, go to the bathroom, throw my clothes on, and take my meds, and then let them out. With puppies, I don't even go to the bathroom. If necessary, I carry them outside in the morning. 

I got Arwen when she was just under 6 weeks old. I had trouble with potty training. We would go out front, and she would not go on lead, so I would let her loose, and she would sniff the entire yard, and finally assume the position. And then a leaf high up in the tree overhead would rustle and she would have to start the whole procedure over. 

I would start out early from work, and pretty soon I was running late. Then I would start to get frustrated. When Arwen sensed my frustration, she became incapable of performing the simple deed. I would start with Go potty. Pretty soon it was, C'Mon Girl, Just Go! And then I would plead with her. The more anxious I got the more she couldn't go. 

I was so frustrated because if she wouldn't go before I left for work, she would go inside while I was gone. I had to totally change my approach with her, because I recognized that this dog wanted to please me. And I based everything on that fact. I had to contain my frustration and when I could do that, we had better luck with pottying appropriately. 

Good luck with your puppy.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Selzer, I think that's the BEST description of how to potty train I've read in my entire life!!


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## POWERSCOL (Jan 3, 2013)

I also agree with the suggestion Selzer made. Emma is now just past 13 weeks and we have had no accident for 3 day now, but I used many of the same tricks, especially the treats.

With Emma I had to watch and listen to her and I quickly learned her schedule. At bed time I take the food and water away about 2 hours before and take her out just before crate time. She get the food and water back first thing in the morning.

When Emma goes pee - it is usually twice - one long one, and a minute later a short one. It also takes a bit for her to find a spot to poop, and sometimes she does that twice too, but I rewarded just about every time. I learned the hard way of not giving her enough time.

She also needed to go within minutes of big drinks or eating kibble - if I saw her sniffing around, I knew it was time to go out. he other time was right after a play period. 

I also put old towles in her crate, just in case, but I was lucky, she was very verbal about not wanting to do it in her crate.

As for training have plenty of treats to reward any positive behavior, no matter how small - it does work. Emma loves the Zukes wild rabbit ones.

Good luck, and be patient - these little land sharks are smart. Also remember that the age in months, plus 2 hours is pretty close to how much they can hold it - been pretty spot on for Emma.

Also if I need to go out and cant take her with me, I don't lock her in the crate, but use a bathroom that I can clean easy - I put papers down on one end, had food and water and toys. She used the paper right off, which 
surprised me.

Hope this helps.


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## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

Seth08 said:


> I love the dog more then just the investment, but there are those times she gets on my last nerve and I just want her to leave me alone for a hour.
> 
> I think that is pretty normal. I love my baby girl but there have been days that I've wondered what the **** I got myself into. She is now 4 1/2 months old and we are finally having more good days than bad. I never had potty training issues or destruction and I am so very thankful for that! I looked up a bunch of puppy training videos on youtube to get her started. It is amazing how fast she learns everything and I think it makes her feel good to accomplish something and also make me happy. While you are looking into a trainer maybe you could get started by watching some videos. Watch several videos on the same thing made by different people. This way you will see more than one method of teaching. Good luck and hang in there!


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

What Selzer does is pretty much what I've done with Lisl and it works.

I have avoided treats for the most part and substituted a lot of praise and a party atmosphere when she goes outside. She knows where she is supposed to go now and I think it's clicked for the most part, but I can't trust her unconditionally yet when I'm not home. Accidents in the house when I'm here ceased weeks ago.

You can practically set your watch by how much time elapses from when she has eaten her first meal in the morning and potty time. She always pees the first thing in the morning after we get up, but she doesn't aways poop until after breakfast.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

I also just used verbal praise... but I wonder if it would have gone faster if I'd used treats. I didn't think of that one. I did make a HUGE deal out of it, though. He knows now the difference between 'potty' (pee) and 'poop' which is helpful. Grim's full of energy and with the girls outside, too, he gets distracted easily and has to be reminded to poo sometimes. :crazy:


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Seth08: I just want to chime back in and say how nice it is to see you following up on the advice here. And as someone else mentioned, yes, these forums can get a little heated, but you didn't cause it. Trust me 

Sounds like you are totally on the right track looking for a trainer, and I hope you do find a reasonably priced, effective one to help you through the challenges of puppyhood.

Keep up your positive attitude. It sounds like your girl is in good hands. Just asking for advice is a HUGE step a lot of frustrated owners skip and then we end up with beautiful pups in rescue waiting for softies like me to come along and scoop them up and start all over a year or two or more into their lives. And there simply aren't enough rescue homes available.

I wish you all the best, and please do keep us posted. She's such a pretty little baby, and it will be fun to watch the progress you make with her!

Have a great day :greet:


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Just as the price of a dog varies by area, so does training cost. Locally, the other two trainers in my area charge $65 and $100 an hour. So yes, a bit of sticker shock.

Perhaps the "good" trainers are trying to set themselves apart from the vast amount of $20-30/hr trainers that are horrifyingly bad? (and yes, I am sure there are good less expensive trainers that I am not aware of.) 

To the OP- your puppy is old enough for classes and I would highly recommend you find an educated pair of eyes to help you along this path. An investment now, whether in private classes or group with whomever you choose, will be well worth it in the long run. If the Petsmart classes are paid for, check them out.

Best of luck,


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Here I pay $75-$120 for 6-8 week session of classes. I don't know if the two places I train offer private lessons for baby puppies but I know the agility private lessons are like $25.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Sorry, but I'd never pay over $30 an hour for obedience training....maybe for protection where equipment and expertise is involved, but not for simple puppy foundation. There is a trainer group locally that charges outrageous amount and it is bringing up the prices on the other private trainers. They will price themselves out of the market/it isn't rocket science to train puppies or pet companions! Though peopele think paying high prices get them special treatment.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Punish?*

I haven't read the whole thread, so, this may have been said before...but I do everything I can NOT to punish my puppy. I've found ways to get inside his head and to use praise, instead.

Here's an example.

I think everyone here who owns a GSD knows they have a tendancy to nip and play bite. Most of us probably have some permanent scaring on our lower arms and hands from their puppy teeth and most of us probably have a pair of shoes and trousers that were ruined by their incessant herding behavior.

With other dogs I'd use punishment, rolled up newspaper, quick swing of baseball cap (not bat) from my head to deter heel nipping, grasping of the side of the shoulder with my hand and a bit of shaking. But with GSDs most of these things incite them to enter play state, instead.

Swinging a hat or newspaper at them is useless. I might as well swing a sirloin at them. Grabbing them by the shoulder only works for a short while when they're quite young but not later.

So, here's what we do which I think is consistent with us trying to work on a great nurturing mutally-respectful and loving relationship with the dog rather than punishment. When the puppy play bites we no only say Nein but also recoil in supposed pain with all the physical and verbal cues that would be expected if the puppy really hurt us.

It's comical too. My wife can be heard downstairs and in the far off laundry room from my office yelping like a stuck pig. I'm sure the neighbors think we're luny when we do it in the backyard too.

Anyway, the puppy almost immediately stops nipping and looks at us in the most concerned way. If the puppy does anything at that point its' just to lick us, almost in seeming apology.

After a while they recognize the Nein and just stop as long as we give them another command to do something. And, the relationship is retained just as we like it.

LF


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