# Opinion on clicker training?



## Ilovemypuppies (Jan 2, 2012)

I haven't really seen a reason to use clicker training until recently I was watching videos on youtube and it really seemed to work well. I want to know what you guys think of it. What are your experiences with it and does it work well?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I have found clicker training to be the best way for me to train a new behavior. Whether it's "down", "heel", or running the weaves in agility, the clicker's ability to communicate to my dog the _exact_ thing he did correct, made massive improvements in my training. 

That said, once the behavior is learned I wean off the clicker fairly quickly and use other methods.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Never saw the need with a GSD. I just say yes. I may not always have a clicker with me, so I chose to use my voice instead.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Never saw the need witha GSD. I just say yes. I may not always have a clicker with me, so I chose to use my voice instead.


:thumbup: Agreed


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Emoore said:


> I have found clicker training to be the best way for me to train a new behavior. Whether it's "down", "heel", or running the weaves in agility, the clicker's ability to communicate to my dog the _exact_ thing he did correct, made massive improvements in my training.
> 
> That said, once the behavior is learned I wean off the clicker fairly quickly and use other methods.


:thumbup: Exactly, once they're conditioned to the clicker it's very easy

In my puppy class we did clicker training, I switched for the basic obedience and they don't do clicker training and it's much harder. That alone showed me that my personal style of training matches with clicker training very well


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## Ilovemypuppies (Jan 2, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Never saw the need with a GSD. I just say yes. I may not always have a clicker with me, so I chose to use my voice instead.


I always thought what if I loose it and can't buy a new one until the next day. Do you just not train.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Never saw the need with a GSD. I just say yes. I may not always have a clicker with me, so I chose to use my voice instead.


Too much to carry, agreed! :thumbup:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Tons of previous threads on clicker training - well worth reading through them: German Shepherd Dog Forums - Search Results

Clicker training is simply marker training using a clicker as the marker. You can also do marker training with a verbal marker, but it's the exact same concept. Are you wondering about using a clicker in particular or marker training in general?

I use both a clicker and my voice - there are some things where a clicker works really well because it's a neutral sound that always sounds exactly the same, and it's easy to be very precise about what you're marking. But sometimes it's just easier not to have to handle a clicker and a leash and deliver treats at the same time. I keep my clicker attached to my treat bag, which helps, and it's on a wrist coil so I can have it in my hand if I want to. With the coil it's easily accessible and I can let go of it if I need to use 2 hands, like for picking up poop, but it's still there around my wrist. Attached to my treat bag I can use the same hand to click and then reach into the bag for a treat, while using the other hand to hold the leash. At home I usually train off leash. 

Since you only use a clicker when you're actively training because it's just a_ training tool_, I don't understand why people would object to a clicker because they may not always have it handy. When I'm training I *always* have my training tools handy! And when I'm not actively training, there's no need to mark and reward behavior, so it's a moot point. :shrug:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Ilovemypuppies said:


> I always thought what if I loose it and can't buy a new one until the next day. Do you just not train.


If you use both a clicker AND a verbal marker, then you'd just use your voice as a marker instead, which is why I condition my dogs to both.


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## Ilovemypuppies (Jan 2, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> If you use both a clicker AND a verbal marker, then you'd just use your voice as a marker instead, which is why I condition my dogs to both.


OH! That make sense.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Never saw the need with a GSD. I just say yes. I may not always have a clicker with me, so I chose to use my voice instead.


Yup. Agree I use both clicker and my voice. Using a voice marker the same thing every time can be just as good. The clicker I use when I am teaching a new trick. You don't need the clicker they are kind of fun to use.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Maybe my voice just sucks, but I have noticed that the same dog learns new behaviors more quckly when I use the clicker vs. voice. 

As to the question of "what do you do if you lose/forget your clicker?" I've got several at home and the training school has loaners. They're cheaper than a cup of coffee.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Karen Pryor on using a clicker vs. a vocal marker. Sounds like the main difference is that a clicker is ONLY a click, that's ALL it does and is absolutely clear to the dog. A click has no other meaning to a dog than to mark a behavior and signal the reward. Voice *can* be used for markers but we also use voice to command, correct, babble to our dogs, praise, NRM, etc.

Click vs. Voice | Karen Pryor Clickertraining

That said I do use both, a clicker and vocal marker word. However my marker word gets transitioned into a bridge later on. If I use a click that means the dog MUST get the reward (food). Later on, I transition to using the word "yes" to mark but don't always feed with every yes.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

what's NRM??


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

doggiedad said:


> what's NRM??


No reward marker. It's often a verbal marker, though some people have used clickers to mark negative behaviors rather than positive behaviors. This would generally be the opposite of what most people think of when doing "clicker training." In that (rare) situation, the clicker could be used as a NRM. For most people using a clicker for training, they will use the clicker to mark the expected behavior, and a NRM (like: Nope! or Opps! or I don't think so! or Not quite! or Try again!) when the behavior is close, but not right.

EDIT- here's a really clear definition from Bob Bailey:

No Reward Marker (NRM) Intended to be a signal to say "No, that isn't what I want -- try again." From the OC perspective, it's intended to add a verbal cue to extinction. However, once something has been added to the situation, it is impossible to know whether a change occurred through extinction or punishment. No Reward Marks are usually an unnecessary level of complexity in a training program. http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/glossary.htm


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## Dbqdogtrainer (Jun 23, 2012)

*"Marker" vs "clicker" training*

Actually, "marker training" is just another term for "clicker training." I know people who combine aversives such as shock with clicker training and call what they do "marker training" - perhaps that's why I am so opposed to the term. Clicker training is more than just using a marker signal in training. It is about specific principles in training, for example using cues rather than commands, minimizing luring and body movement, adding the cue after the animal has learned the behavior, training without correction, etc. I am a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner and I call what I do clicker training, regardless of the marker signal. See this article I wrote for more information.


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## Dbqdogtrainer (Jun 23, 2012)

wildo said:


> No reward marker. It's often a verbal marker, though some people have used clickers to mark negative behaviors rather than positive behaviors. This would generally be the opposite of what most people think of when doing "clicker training." In that (rare) situation, the clicker could be used as a NRM. For most people using a clicker for training, they will use the clicker to mark the expected behavior, and a NRM (like: Nope! or Opps! or I don't think so! or Not quite! or Try again!) when the behavior is close, but not right.
> 
> EDIT- here's a really clear definition from Bob Bailey:
> 
> No Reward Marker (NRM) Intended to be a signal to say "No, that isn't what I want -- try again." From the OC perspective, it's intended to add a verbal cue to extinction. However, once something has been added to the situation, it is impossible to know whether a change occurred through extinction or punishment. No Reward Marks are usually an unnecessary level of complexity in a training program. ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Glossary of Clicker Training Terms


I agree. NRMs are not necessary and provide no needed information. In true clicker training, we do not use NRMs.


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## Dbqdogtrainer (Jun 23, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Never saw the need with a GSD. I just say yes. I may not always have a clicker with me, so I chose to use my voice instead.


You don't need a clicker outside of a training session, and if you see something you like that you want to mark and reward, you can just use your voice in those situations. What many people do not understand is that the clicker is only used to a certain point in training when the dog understands the behavior. Many people, at least in my area of the country where shock training is the norm tend to see the clicker as a remote control device and think they need to have it with them at all times to control their dogs - forever. Not true - a clicker, or other marking device is just a communication tool used during training.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Dbqdogtrainer said:


> I agree. NRMs are not necessary and provide no needed information. In true clicker training, we do not use NRMs.


Well- who am I to disagree with the great Bob Bailey, but I do. I think NRM _do_ have a place in marker training, and I use them successfully. One can only be so clear- a little extra information to the dog can make a big difference. Today I gave a NRM for an incorrect weave pole entry. I could have said nothing, retried, and hoped for success. Instead, I chose to not allow my dog to be self-reinforced by the incorrect entry, gave the NRM, she immediately returned to me, and we tried again with success. I will agree that when you're as good a trainer as Bob Bailey, you might not need such a tool. (For those who don't know, Bob is known for finding a spider at a seminar, and within 10 mins he had trained the spider to recall. Amazing stuff! He is a legend in marker training.) I am not as good as him at always setting up a successful environment, and therefore I choose to occasionally use a NRM.

Susan Garrett has a wonderful blog post on the subject. You can read it here. Most notably, she says:


> Personally, I will use a NRM (non reward marker) when I am training a behaviour chain. Here when the dog completes one response of the chain he is rewarded for his effort by being allowed to progress to the next response. ... With every NRM he hears he now knows he has eliminated one more option that is incorrect and he is one step closer to earning his reinforcement.


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## Dbqdogtrainer (Jun 23, 2012)

*Clicker training ID training*



Ilovemypuppies said:


> I haven't really seen a reason to use clicker training until recently I was watching videos on youtube and it really seemed to work well. I want to know what you guys think of it. What are your experiences with it and does it work well?


Having come from a background in the yank and thank method as taught by previous instructors decades ago before I became a professional dog trainer myself, I can tell you that clicker training _is_ training. Everything else is just sloppy. Even if you don't do it completely correctly, you can do no harm with clicker training and your dog will still learn. I am a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner and before I went through the intensive 6 month-long program I used a clicker but I was not a "clicker trainer." I did a couple of other dog training programs, one using a clicker as a marker signal, but nothing comes close to what I learned in the KPA. Clicker training is the most powerful, most versatile and most precise method of animal training available. It is not new - it has been around for decades, but only popularized in the early 90's by Karen Pryor et al. Trying to decide between clicker training and anything else is like trying to decide whether to breathe oxygen or something else. You can't go wrong with clicker training! Your dog will become an enthusiastic learner. You will have fun. Your dog will learn fast and remember what you teach him for a very long time, perhaps forever! There is no question - clicker training is the best!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Dbqdogtrainer said:


> You don't need a clicker outside of a training session, and if you see something you like that you want to mark and reward, you can just use your voice in those situations. What many people do not understand is that the clicker is only used to a certain point in training when the dog understands the behavior. Many people, at least in my area of the country where shock training is the norm tend to see the clicker as a remote control device and think they need to have it with them at all times to control their dogs - forever. Not true - a clicker, or other marking device is just a communication tool used during training.


Dogs can also learn the behavior with voice versus clicker. Voice can be used just as effectively as a clicker...its pretty much the same thing..instead of the click the dog gets a yes. I've done both and the clicker might be easier, but I'm not necessarily looking for easy. IMO the dog will remember just as much if trained the right way using voice versus clicker.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

llombardo said:


> Dogs can also learn the behavior with voice versus clicker. Voice can be used just as effectively as a clicker...its pretty much the same thing..instead of the click the dog gets a yes. I've done both and the clicker might be easier, but I'm not necessarily looking for easy. IMO the dog will remember just as much if trained the right way using voice versus clicker.


This. I've used 'real' clickers and vocal markers on many different dogs. I have equal success with both. I think the problem a lot of folks seem to have with verbal markers is a lack of staccato; it's completely possible to say the word 'yes' as a pip. It almost comes out as "ess". It's easy to ramp up the volume in a crowded place or across greater distance, too.

Also, earlier a poster mentioned that they're always prepared for training with a clicker because they don't need to train when they're not 'in a session'... I'm afraid I really disagree with that. I think the opportunity to train happens 100% of the time. Why limit the mark and reward to a few five minute periods a day? If we're outside the grocery store and my dog performs a desirable behavior, I want to mark and reward that dog (however I can, once loaded I can use physical or verbal praise). If she's on the sofa and she performs a behavior I'm trying to shape (like shaping a 'sneeze on command') I'm going to mark and reward that dog. I've had great success with this method.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

marbury said:


> Also, earlier a poster mentioned that they're always prepared for training with a clicker because they don't need to train when they're not 'in a session'... I'm afraid I really disagree with that. I think the opportunity to train happens 100% of the time. Why limit the mark and reward to a few five minute periods a day? If we're outside the grocery store and my dog performs a desirable behavior, I want to mark and reward that dog (however I can, once loaded I can use physical or verbal praise). If she's on the sofa and she performs a behavior I'm trying to shape (like shaping a 'sneeze on command') I'm going to mark and reward that dog. I've had great success with this method.


That was me - I should probably clarify what I meant.  In the situations that you describe above, those would actually be training sessions for me - I do a LOT of capturing behaviors with a puppy, so I'm wearing my treat bag from the time I come home from work until bedtime for at least the first few months, so I'm always ready to reward behaviors that I like and want to encourage. And anytime we're out in public for sure, I _still_ do this and my dogs are 3-1/2 and nearly 7 years old. Training opportunities are everywhere! 

But here's a post I wrote in another thread about clicker training that addresses what I mean by my previous comment: 



Cassidy's Mom said:


> Actually, you don't need to click and reward every single time you ask them to do something outside of a training session. You can use real life rewards (sitting and waiting to be released to eat a meal or go outside or before you throw the ball, for example), or even just a happy "good dog!" will do.
> 
> Even IN a training session you're going to lower the rate of reinforcement at some point and move to a variable reward system as the behavior becomes learned and generalized. I've used both a clicker and a verbal marker for a long time now, and I think the clicker works better for some things, especially capturing behaviors, and shaping behaviors.
> 
> If I might want to reward something the dogs are doing, whether it's a formal training session or outside of a session, I'm going to have treats on me, and my clicker is attached to the bag, so it's right there too. But as I said, I'm not going to be rewarding every single thing they do, so if I'm not prepared and they just happen to do something amazing and wonderful that I want to reinforce, I can still use a verbal marker, and then go to the cabinet and get something yummy for them.


http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...hods/173352-clicker-no-click.html#post2346024


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Cool beans! That clarifies things.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Pepper311 said:


> Yup. Agree I use both clicker and my voice. *Using a voice marker the same thing every time can be just as good. *The clicker I use when I am teaching a new trick. You don't need the clicker they are kind of fun to use.


Not so much, especially when teaching something new. There is a reason a 'clicker' of maker other than or voice really is worth learning to use... Plus, the training is more than just using a marker, it's about shaping a behavior and communication that makes sense to our dogs. Our voice makes sense to US, but for a dog (animial) the clicker seems to ideal. 

Why Can't I Just Use My Voice? | Karen Pryor Clickertraining



> Clicker training involves shaping behavior in small steps, identifying the behavior, as it occurs, with some kind of marker signal. Dolphin trainers use a whistle; dog and horse trainers have settled on the clicker. *But couldn't you just use a word, like "good," or "yes," as a marker signal? And wouldn't it be just as effective?*
> 
> You can use a word—obedience instructors like the word "yes"—and it will work a lot better than treats alone; but it's not nearly as effective as a click. The evidence from dog training schools that have tried both methods suggests that dogs and their owners learn about 50% more rapidly when the marker signal is a click instead of the word "yes."
> 
> ...


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I find the clicker more effective than voice in the early stages. It is clear, concise, unchanging. A trainer tends to be better at timing with it. Some research indicates it may reach the brain differently. I always teach a voice marker in addition. I am training a 6 month old Sheltie right now and my experience with him makes me prefer the clicker for intro of beginnings of behaviors.

I am currently clicking his retrieve. Not a naturally retrieving breed so this gonna take a bit.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

The clicker is more precise than using your voice, so it is a useful tool to have. I have found that my dogs learn new things very quickly with the clicker and it also helps in fine-tuning and behaviors that require multiple steps.
Just because you do clicker training, does not mean you can never train if you don't have your clicker handy... You can also train using a marker signal (a word like "yes!" or some other short word/syllable) that can be 'charged' in a similar way to the clicker, and this can be used when you don't have the clicker handy. It's just that your voice is not as sharp and singular a sound, so the effect is not quite as precise as using a clicker. 
Personally I've never had a problem with "juggling" clicker/leash/treats/etc, but then again a lot of my training is not done on leash. If I am using a leash I often either have the leash looped up or I'm using a hands-free leash, I have the clicker on a strap that is around my wrist, and the treats are not in my hand unless I am actually about to hand them to the dog, so it's not really a problem.
Since I use a wrist strap for the clicker, if I want to give a treat with the same hand I just let go of the clicker and let it dangle on its strap for a second while I deliver the treat. The strap is the right length so that when I lower my hand, the clicker is right at my palm and ready to be grabbed and clicked when I need it.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I have trained Ari's retrieve using a clicker...... VERY cool. It is the only exercise I have truly free-shaped (with a little luring by using a target to send him over the jump and Aframe).
No way would it have worked that well with my voice.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Chicagocanine said:


> Personally I've never had a problem with "juggling" clicker/leash/treats/etc, but then again a lot of my training is *not done on leash.* If I am using a leash I often either have the leash looped up or I'm using a hands-free leash, *I have the clicker on a strap that is around my wrist,* and the treats are not in my hand unless I am actually about to hand them to the dog, so it's not really a problem.
> Since I use a wrist strap for the clicker, if I want to give a treat with the same hand I just let go of the clicker and let it dangle on its strap for a second while I deliver the treat. The strap is the right length so that when I lower my hand, the clicker is right at my palm and ready to be grabbed and clicked when I need it.


Both good points and a way to make using the clicker easier. No leash to hold, plus a clicker on wristband.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I like the clicker, but, IMO, this is a weak argument in its favor:

"Here's the problem: using a clicker, if you don't get what you had in mind, you just look for the next opportunity to click. Using a word, however, when you can't say 'yes' you may feel frustrated and disappointed, and your posture may actually say 'no!'"

I think it's just as likely that a person who would communicate that kind of disappointment upon not being able to give the verbal marker would be very nearly as likely to communicate it upon not being able to click.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

I don't like clickers. I find them annoying. Never had a problem with training without one. If you're not in the frame of mind to work positively with your dog, you shouldn't... whether you're using voice or clicker. Your body language saying "no" could be the same whether you're using a clicker or your voice...so I fail to see the difference. Also, what happens when you're not using the clicker at some point? What if you forgot it, etc? Your voice is always there. IMO, the most important thing is consistency and timing. The clicker isn't the reward, anyway, it's simply a marker. In truth, if you're using treats to train, your dog is working for that treat, not the click.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

There are alway so many reasons and excuses for we humans NOT to learn something new but put all the pressure and expectations on our puppy. 

What I know, the clicker really is a fantastic tool, specially for puppies. The clicker works. It's clear, it's concise, it only means one thing.

Even better the methodology involved with clicker training WORKS. So we aren't just learning how to push on a button and make the sound (duh, that's easy  ) it's the WHEN we push it and learning this that is key. If you don't know what 'shaping' is then you haven't been learning proper marker training.

I ALSO use verbal markers! Just because you learn to use the clicker doesn't mean you can't also have a verbal marker. But it is NOT the same. I can not physically say 'yes' as fast as I can click. And if the dog did the 'right' thing on the 'y' in yes or the right thing on the 's' in yes, TO THE DOG it makes a difference in what I marked (or thought I marked) and how they learned (or take longer to learn).

Just another tool to use that works, helps our dogs, and really isn't duplicated by our voice (no matter what people say, it's just not the same, really). So if I know it works. Know it helps my dog learn clearer and faster. And the only reason I won't do it is because it's to hard for me (whine whine whine  ) ...............just seems like I'm removing a tool from my training tool box.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

My feeling on clickers is that they are only one tool that can work in training. If you can use it correctly it's a good tool. If it's too hard to control or you can't get the timing right, it's worse than useless, it can interfere with proper training. I took a class that required clickers, and at least half the people there couldn't use them and their dogs never benefited from that training. It takes skill. I ended up using a voice marker so my hands were free, which worked just as well for me with a very active puppy. Until that class, I'd never used one before.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

I just use "yes". I always have my voice with me, not usually a clicker. 

I really like this approach for trick training, really helps them to "get it" quickly.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

In a class, how would a dog distinguish between it's handlers clicker from the trainer that is standing right next to it clicking away? 

I am assuming that they all have the same brand clicker.

And i know that my dog can distinguish my voice from anybody elses voice.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

codmaster said:


> In a class, how would a dog distinguish between it's handlers clicker from the trainer that is standing right next to it clicking away?
> 
> I am assuming that they all have the same brand clicker.
> 
> And i know that my dog can distinguish my voice from anybody elses voice.


I know it's crazy but they really can tell the difference. I've attended classes with people with different clickers, and ones that the instructor handed out all the same to the class, and the dogs do know. 

Not sure if it's just based on the sound or also the location the click is coming from. 

Guess it's just another circumstance where our pups show us they can be much smarter then we generally give them credit for.... 

aw:


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I know it's crazy but they really can tell the difference. I've attended classes with people with different clickers, and ones that the instructor handed out all the same to the class, and the dogs do know.
> 
> Not sure if it's just based on the sound or also the location the click is coming from.
> 
> ...


 
That is amazing! And it is very true that they can utterly astound us sometimes!


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

"Clicker training" has come to mean a certain type of training to most people, usually positive reinforcement only training while using a clicker as a marker.

In reality, a clicker is simply a tool that can be used with ANY type of training. No matter what method you use, EVERYONE uses some type of marker. Many simply use their voice, a clap or pat of their hand, click of their tongue, snap of their fingers. 

I personally prefer using a clicker when I am doing any sort of new training. Of course, I do a lot of trick training with Zeke, so I find a click the easiest way to associate an exact move I desire. The instant he does what I want, he gets a click. Clear and precise, no confusion or mistaking what I want.

Of course, the basics such as sit, down, stay, come, etc... were taught extremely young and picked up on fast. Therefor, the clicker was quickly pushed to the side while training and proofing the basics, as once I fully teach a command I no longer use the clicker while proofing. So when I'm walking around in public, working on proofing my dog's heel, there is no need for me to be carrying around a clicker. And since I wouldn't be training a new trick or command out in public surrounded by distractions, I am never without a clicker (BTW, in a pinch the bottle tops that pop up when a drink is first opened work pretty good when you can't find/buy a clicker.)


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

I know I'm waking an old thread. But where is the best place to learn how to do clicker training?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

coulter said:


> I know I'm waking an old thread. But where is the best place to learn how to do clicker training?


What are your training goals?

There are tons of free web videos on YouTube for basic clicker training.

For basics and tricks;
Zsians1
Kikopup

If you are looking for more in depth videos, Susan Garrett has some videos that are highly regarded in agility.

IMHO, for marker training obedience, you can't beat the Leerburg videos, especially The Power of Training Dogs with Food with Michael Ellis. He uses his voice instead of a clicker.

David Winners


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

David Winners said:


> What are your training goals?
> 
> There are tons of free web videos on YouTube for basic clicker training.
> 
> ...


I'll be bringing home a new gsd pup in February. I wanted to start Sage my now 1.5yr old female on clicker/marker training when I first got her but it never happened. While I am happy with how sage turned out. I want to get a stronger grip on obedience, response time , ignoring distractions, etc. with this new pup. And I've heard that clicker/ marker training is one of the best methods. But I don't know much about it or how to get started.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Tawzer dog productions or bowwowflix are both excellent resources for self-learning. I had an extremely difficult time finding a competent clicker-trainer near me so learned a lot from those sources.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

coulter said:


> I'll be bringing home a new gsd pup in February. I wanted to start Sage my now 1.5yr old female on clicker/marker training when I first got her but it never happened. While I am happy with how sage turned out. I want to get a stronger grip on obedience, response time , ignoring distractions, etc. with this new pup. And I've heard that clicker/ marker training is one of the best methods. But I don't know much about it or how to get started.


I would honestly suggest you get the Michael Ellis DVD. It's produced for sport trainers, but it translates just fine for pets. All the things you listed are covered. There are all types / drive levels of dogs on there. I think you will be very satisfied.

David Winners


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

coulter said:


> And I've heard that clicker/ marker training is one of the best methods. But I don't know much about it or how to get started.


It's really simple and really powerful. 

You don't _need_ more than the youtube tutorials to get started, and I'd recommend watching a couple of kikopup's clips to see what she does. Then practice, either with or without your current dog, to develop your mechanical skills. Just train something easy and goofy like stepping into/out of a cardboard box or having your dog touch her nose to the end of a soup spoon so you can practice the mechanics.

Sport-oriented videos tend to be clearer about things like overshadowing cues (one really common mistake is for people to start reaching for the treat or toy before they click; this causes the dog to start watching the treat/toy hand instead of paying attention to the click, and weakens the efficacy of the click as a marker) and maintaining clean mechanics generally. Even if you "only" want to do pet training, it is extremely helpful to learn this stuff and try to develop your skills correctly from the beginning, so I do recommend looking into some of those DVDs, especially if you don't have a good trainer to work with in person.

There are good fundamentals DVDs produced for just about all the major sports. Hannah Branigan's Obedience FUNdamentals is one I'd recommend, and Julie Flanery's TAP freestyle series starts out with two discs on fundamentals that I found very helpful. The Ellis one is good as well. Emily Larlham (Kikopup) has been putting out some really good material on tricks and freestyle, and there is an absolute metric ton of agility material.

They all differ a little on the details (and then build into different directions as you get more advanced), but foundational marker training is pretty similar across sports, so you'll get broadly the same thing out of any of them at the beginning.

So I do think that is a good way to get started. But if you're feeling intimidated, it's not _necessary_. Dogs are remarkably forgiving with our sloppiness.


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