# Starting RAW.



## wrenny (Sep 20, 2007)

I have a 4 year old male GSD that has skin problems, 432423534 different vets, 800 for blood tests, can't schedule a dermatologist until July so I'm trying to find more natural ways to help my buddy out.

5 different foods later..let's go raw.

My biggest thing is bones. When I give him those chew toys or pigs feet I always freak out he's going to choke. I have to watch him the whole time he eats them. I'm just over protective I geuss. With general food he scarfs it down in a matter of seconds..

I guess the bones are a HUGE part of BARF so I can't really skip out on it, correct? Is my choice to either watch him 24-7 when he eats or fork out 100+ dollars on a grinder?

Man..I had another question before I started this post..don't you hate when you type one question out and forget the other one? I'm sure I'll edit or reply in a few..


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON (Feb 21, 2010)

he wont choke, dogs rear teeth are designed to chunk up and crush bones, he will poop them out as likke rubbery chunks in his stool, read this book, Leerburg | Raw Dog Food and yes bones are a staple of the barf diet. You only have to worry about COOKED bones. that is were the myth of causing problems comes from and they can splinter.


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## Sambuca (Mar 13, 2010)

It's never a bad idea to monitor them when they eat but the 24/7 part will be more like 5 minutes a day if your dog is anything like mine.

My guy gets 2 meals a day and literally finishes eating by the time I put back the bags of meat into the fridge. They will crunch the bones down enough until they can swallow it and then poof! Gone in 60 seconds.

Very interested in hearing the results. From everything I've read about RAW I would feel pretty optimistic that your dog's skin problems will cured within a few weeks.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

I started my dogs on raw 3 weeks ago and their are THRIVING! Here is a great site to help you get started.

Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Since it's likely allergies, I wouldn't go with BARF and the added veggies and other "stuff." (I'm not overly familiar with BARF but from what I understand, you have to puree veggies and some people even add grains).

I'd go with a raw prey model diet. Dogs instinctively know how to chew up bone-in meat. Even my Rottweiler, who is a big time gulper, doesn't have any problems. Do not be concerned if they chew too fast and puke it up.. it happens. Just let them eat it again... they'll go slower this time. 

Both of my shepherds are very careful, awesome eaters, though. 

Here's an article about the raw prey model diet in case you're interested:

RAW PREY MODEL DIET
By: Nicki Simonson

Some of the benefits of feeding raw: 
-fresh breath 
-diminished doggy odor 
-dogs are mentally stimulated 
-dogs generally eat their food right away 
-smaller poops 
-increased energy 
-shiny coats
-slower, steadier growth in puppies (important for large/giant breeds!)

The main points: 
-dogs should be fed 2% of their ideal adult body weight daily*
-the goal is 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs.* Igenerally try to balance this over a week's time.
-go slowly at first... too much, too fast can cause loose stool. 

*These percentages are guidelines. My GSD male needs a lot more than 2% because he has such a high metabolism and is constantly moving. Also, some dogs need more or less bone.. just look at the poop. If it's loose, add more bone. If the dog is constipated, add less bone.

I start new dogs on chicken. Many people buy whole chickens and cut them up, but I don’t like to deal with cutting them up so I buy leg quarters. (Bone in chicken breasts are generally a good choice for puppies, the bones are the easiest and there is a good bone to meat ratio). Check the sodium content: if it's over 80, it's enhanced and you'll want to pass. Most of the Gold N Plump sold at my local grocery store is un-enhanced. 

You can decide whether or not you want to take the skin and excess fat off the first few days. I did this for a couple of days when starting mine raw, but I don't believe I would've needed to. My dogs were just fine.

Simply hand your dog a chicken quarter (you can feed outside if you like... I fed inside at first because I wanted a more controlled environment). Don't be surprised if he doesn't immediately gobble it up. He may try to lick it to death first.

You'll want to feed nothing but chicken for the first couple of weeks. The bone content will be a bit high... but that's okay since bone = firm poops, and her tummy will be adjusting to the new food. 

Don't be surprised if your dog "guards" his food, even if he's never done this before. It is completely natural. Think about if you've been fed nothing but dry cereal your whole entire life and someone hands you a big, juicy steak. You'd guard that sucker, too! He WILL get used to the fact that he's going to get this fantastic food every day and become nonchalant about eating. The key is to NOT mess with his food. If you mess with his food, he'll start to worry that you will take it away. 

Don't be surprised if, once he starts to realize how amazingly good chicken is, he horks down his food and then almost immediately throws it up again. Let him eat it a second time (gross, I know, but it's what he'd do if he were a wolf in the wild). My Rottie occasionally does this and then seems to learn his lesson for a time... and for the next few days he'll eat much slower and more carefully. My German Shepherd female is an AMAZINGLY wonderful eater. She carefully chews everything. 

Your dog will be on just chicken for two weeks so that will give you plenty of time to choose your next protein source. I decided to go with pork, because it is inexpensive and readily available. When you start your second protein source, add just a bit of it to a chicken meal, so his tummy gets used to this new meat. Gradually increase the amount until you're feeding a full pork (or other protein) meal. Repeat these steps when adding beef, turkey, lamb, venison, etc. 

Most pork bones are fine for medium dogs on up, but smaller dogs will not be able to crunch some of the larger ones. I personally do not feed beef bones. They are generally too dense for all but the giant breed dogs. If your dog is careful and will eat around the bone without breaking his teeth trying to crunch it up, you can feed these “rec” bones. It will give your dog hours of entertainment and you some free time. ;-)

When adding organs, make sure you start small, since they are rich and can cause loose stool before the dog is used to them. Organs are the “powerhouse” when it comes to nutrients, vitamins, etc. If you compare organ meat with vegetables, you’ll find a lot of the same nutrients… but organs have a higher content. That is why dogs do not require veggies… because they’re getting what they need from the 10% organ in their diet. Wolves in the wild may munch on grass or eat stomach content, but they generally do this out of preference rather than need.

You must also add a source of Omega 3. It should be a protein source, and not flax based. Flax is not easily converted by dogs and many of them are actually allergic to it. I used to use salmon oil capsules, but with the recent lawsuits over PCPs in fish oil pills, I’ve started using canned sardines in water. I give each of my dogs a can of sardines 3x per week. A typical week looks like this:

Monday: morning – chicken. Evening – pork, sardines
Tuesday: morning – chicken. Evening – beef, beef liver
Wednesday: morning – chicken. Evening – pork
Thursday: morning – chicken. Evening – pork, sardines
Friday: morning – chicken. Evening – pork, beef liver
Saturday: morning – chicken. Evening – beef, sardines
Sunday: morning – chicken. Evening – pork

I get other kinds of meat (turkey, lamb, etc.) when they are on sale. I get venison whenever I can… it’s the BEST for them…. Plus they love it!

Some final points: 

Rawfed dogs: 

1) Are eating what is 100% natural for them, meaning they will likely be healthier. 

2) Have amazingly white teeth and fresh breath, without the necessity of brushing their teeth or EXPENSIVE vet teeth cleanings. 

3) Have tiny small poops (less mess to clean up). 

Rawfeeding:
1) Can be cheaper than kibble (post on CL for free/cheap meat, search the weekly ads for meat bargains, buy soon to expire meat, etc. 

2) Means no stressful worrying when kibble gets recalled! 

3) is EASY! My dog was SUCH a picky eater and ate barely enough to stay alive. Now she eats with gusto and finishes her meal up promptly, meaning I don't have to worrya bout my other dog stealing her food, since he was a living vacuum when it comes to food of any type 

Some myths about rawfeeding: 
1) Rawfed dogs do NOT become bloodthirsty killers. They may become refrigerator magnets... since the fridge is The Door To All Things Good And Wonderful. 

2) Raw meat will not give dogs bacteria/e-coli poisoning. Dogs' digestive systems were made to handle food heavy in bacteria... they are very short and contain strong acid. Kibble takes longer to digest, and that is why you see e-coli/bacteria related recalls with kibble.

3) Raw chicken bones are not dangerous to dogs. Only cooked bones are dangerous, since they become hard and brittle and can splinter. 

Don't be surprised if many veterinarians do not support raw feeding. These vets certainly mean well, but were likely given incorrect information in vet school since the very few nutrition courses they took were likely sponsored by a pet food company (usually Hills (Science Diet), Iams or Eukanuba). Pet food companies are, of course, going to say that ONLY dog food is good for dogs. Additionally, with all there is to learn in vet school, there simply is not time to focus too much on nutrition. I have researched extensively and consulted with a canine nutritionist with years of training, schooling (including a master’s degree), research, and personal experience.

For more information, please feel free to:
-Email me at [email protected]
Join the Yahoo Rawfeedinggroup: rawfeeding : Raw Feeding for dogs and cats!
-Consult with a canine nutritionist: Canine Nutrition Consultant - DogFoodGuru.com
-Check out the following sites:
Raw Fed Dogs | Feeding the way Mother Nature intended!!!
RawFed.com Home Page
The Many Myths of Raw Feeding
Jane Anderson's Raw Learning Site
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/index.html (for finding bone percentages)


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> They may become refrigerator magnets


Yes! I have two of them and can say that it has done no harm in any way! As a matter of fact they are healthier now than before raw! My boy had all symptoms of IBD but now is a picture of health and the biggest refrigerator magnet I have ever had  Love it!


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Nicki, great article alot of good information. I'm going to share this with my husband. We started feeding Bravo raw on the weekends, but would like to "create" our own meals. I'm just intimidated by raw & honesty not sure where to start. 

Wrenny-good luck with your boy. I hope raw does the trick & brings your boy relief


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## Nana (Dec 30, 2010)

Thanks so much for the information!! Especially the "diet" that you feed them daily!! That HELPS so much!!
We just started ours today!!


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## wrenny (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies. 

Picking out the part where it says the dog may guard their food..recently I bought him some chew toiy treat and we never give that kind've stuff to him. When he had it I was walking past him and he growled at me. Never heard a growl like that before so I immediately took the chew bone away from him. I really thought he was gonna bite me because it was a pretty evil snarl that I've never heard in the 4 years I've had him. Anyways..gave him another one a week later. Same thing. So the last time I gave him one I would hold it as he chewed it and he never growled or anything. He ate it.

Now if I give him one he won't even go near it. Is it because he knows that I took them away and in essence their bad?

I don't want this to happen with raw food, thus why I'm asking.


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## lanaw13 (Jan 8, 2011)

That is am excellent article…!!!


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Honestly once the dog figures out that they get to keep this awesome food, they generally have no guarding issues. I can reach into any of my dogs' mouths and take out raw food. I don't make it a practice to take food away from them, but if one steals food from the other, I will step in and take it back.


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## DeeMcB (Nov 28, 2010)

I feed my guys in their crates so that they can relax and not feel like they have to defend their food from one another.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

If he growls, just tell him QUIT IT in a very firm voice, don't allow it whether it's toys or food. Not acceptable, period. 

Just watch him while he's chewing his first bones. I had to watch my 10 week old pup very closely when I gave him his very first chicken backs. He took his time crunching and chewing, thankfully! He is getting his first chicken necks this week as well.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> They may become refrigerator magnets... since the fridge is The Door To All Things Good And Wonderful.


So true!!! Except mine is more like a freezer/garage magnet, since my freezer is out there. She was never so obsessed with kibble.
Even my mom's little dogs, who only get raw as a treat, will get SO excited when they see me walking out to the garage.


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