# rough play at dog park



## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

My German shepherd dog loves the dog park. The problem is he loves to play rough. It's fine if the other dog wants to, but he sometimes doesn't get that the other dog is scared of him. He just turned two and has only been social with other dogs for the past 6 months. For the most part he's great, but people at the dog park will scream at me or him because they think he's mean.

I can call him off pretty good, but sometimes he doesn't come right away. 

He also growls a lot when he's playing, which mak re people think he's trying to attack their dog. That's just how he plays, he's very talkative. He's never been in a fight. I just want to enjoy the dog park with him. 

Any advice welcome!


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

sabledog3 said:


> My German shepherd dog loves the dog park. The problem is he loves to play rough. It's fine if the other dog wants to, but he sometimes doesn't get that the other dog is scared of him. He just turned two and has only been social with other dogs for the past 6 months. For the most part he's great, but people at the dog park will scream at me or him because they think he's mean.
> 
> I can call him off pretty good, but sometimes he doesn't come right away.
> 
> ...


Stay out of the dog park. If your dog is rough, it's an incident waiting to happen. My dog also plays rough. We only go to dog parks for training. 

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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

I would not be happy with a dog rough playing with my dogs. If you have a slow recall that would make it worse. 

I avoid dog parks now. I've seen to many untrained dogs, clueless owners and fights breaking out.


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

I have decided to stop the dog park for awhile.

I just want to clear up that he's mostly very good, mostly great recall, mostly not too rough. He loves little dogs and is never too rough with then. If we keep walking and he doesn't try to run around with another dog, he's fine. I don't want him to sound like some big park bully, because 95 percent of the time he is super and fine.

I'm going to have him start going to daycare for a couple hours per week. I think part of the problem is he doesn't get enough time around other dogs, so he gets way over excited at the dog park.

That's for the advice.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

He can still scare the **** out of other dogs, making them DA. I would get him well trained and make him ball crazy. Once that is done he probably won't care about other dogs.
I am always worried about running into these kind of dogs if I have a young dog.
And it gives the breed a bad name. It is scary for the average dog owner to see an out of control adult GSD run up to them and bully their dog. So yes, I would avoid the DPs.


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> He can still scare the **** out of other dogs, making them DA. I would get him well trained and make him ball crazy. Once that is done he probably won't care about other dogs.
> I am always worried about running into these kind of dogs if I have a young dog.
> And it gives the breed a bad name. It is scary for the average dog owner to see an out of control adult GSD run up to them and bully their dog. So yes, I would avoid the DPs.


He really has very little interest in balls...Any ways to build interest? 

Also he doesn't run up to other dogs and jump on them. He will just get rougher through out the play. Like I said, his commands are mostly reliable, at least 95 percent. I was thinking about walking him outside the fenced park and working on focus and recall some more.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> He can still scare the **** out of other dogs, making them DA. I would get him well trained and make him ball crazy. Once that is done he probably won't care about other dogs.
> I am always worried about running into these kind of dogs if I have a young dog.
> And it gives the breed a bad name. It is scary for the average dog owner to see an out of control adult GSD run up to them and bully their dog. So yes, I would avoid the DPs.


The ball thing is a good idea but it doesn't work all the time. Midnite will have the ball in his mouth and still nose and growl at the other dogs to get then to play. He is only trying to play but for this reason he will never be in a dog park or around other dogs he doesn't know. It sounds aggressive but it's not at all, but it still bothers me, I can't imagine what someone that didn't know him would think.


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## Thewretched (Jan 1, 2014)

I can guarantee you that it only takes one time of your dog being rough for it to end badly for you. 

I know at least 10 people on here that If their dog was "rough played" your dog would be beaten, pepper sprayed, or even worse. 

Just some food for thought.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Thewretched said:


> I can guarantee you that it only takes one time of your dog being rough for it to end badly for you.
> 
> I know at least 10 people on here that If their dog was "rough played" your dog would be beaten, pepper sprayed, or even worse.
> 
> ...


This isn't really true. The people that would do that don't bring their dogs to dog parks. If they were on a walk and were attacked it is a different story.


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## Thewretched (Jan 1, 2014)

It's really not, Generally they wouldn't be at a dog park, but it just takes one time. It's really if you want to chance it or not, I'm not one to be at a dog park if anyone is there. 


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

sabledog3 said:


> He really has very little interest in balls...Any ways to build interest?
> 
> Also he doesn't run up to other dogs and jump on them. He will just get rougher through out the play. Like I said, his commands are mostly reliable, at least 95 percent. I was thinking about walking him outside the fenced park and working on focus and recall some more.


As soon as you see the first signs of him getting aroused, leash him with "Oops, time out!" practice obedience with him and release when he is compliant and focused on you. If you cannot reach him in time, he is not ready for the DPs.
Regarding everything else: get a trainer involved.
Issues never pop up separately; everything is related in some way. That's why NILIF works so well.


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

llombardo said:


> The ball thing is a good idea but it doesn't work all the time. Midnite will have the ball in his mouth and still nose and growl at the other dogs to get then to play. He is only trying to play but for this reason he will never be in a dog park or around other dogs he doesn't know. It sounds aggressive but it's not at all, but it still bothers me, I can't imagine what someone that didn't know him would think.


Thanks, I'm glad someone else gets it...He is very growly, but really he's playing. People get so worked up about it. It really doesn't bother me,I used to run a dog daycare and lots of social dogs growl when they play. It's a lot harder to deal with people at the dog park than the dogs.


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> As soon as you see the first signs of him getting aroused, leash him with "Oops, time out!" practice obedience with him and release when he is compliant and focused on you. If you cannot reach him in time, he is not ready for the DPs.
> Regarding everything else: get a trainer involved.
> Issues never pop up separately; everything is related in some way. That's why NILIF works so well.


I'm not really understanding the second part of your post...could you clarify?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

sabledog3 said:


> Thanks, I'm glad someone else gets it...He is very growly, but really he's playing. People get so worked up about it. It really doesn't bother me,I used to run a dog daycare and lots of social dogs growl when they play. It's a lot harder to deal with people at the dog park than the dogs.


..but we as the owners of this powerful breed will always be at the losing end when there is trouble so I always stay humble and making sure that my and other dogs stay safe. We have the responsibility to protect the breed from further labeling and preconceptions.
I personally like one dog park in our area, huge acreage with sports fields so no crowding and no fences. Once they mature I only go there to play and train. By that age, around 1 year, they tend not to be so interested in dogs anymore.
Mine have a few good doggy friends and that's it.


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

There is a really interesting blog article somewhere I read once that explained why GSD are not dog park dogs. It basically went into how they play and what they consider to be the proper way to deal with other dogs, and how some breeds tend to be so in your face that it usually gets on the nerves of most GSD. In general, GSD are not the kind of dog who want to be social with other dogs. They, like some other breeds, tend to end up dog aggressive/reactive because of not wanting to deal with the more pushy breeds that people tend to own.

I got lucky with my golden. He was ambushed and pushed around a lot at dog parks while he was growing. It got to where he wouldn't want to interact with other dogs because he wasn't sure how it would end. And if he found one dog to interact with, some other dog would get involved and next thing I knew Myles had flattened onto his back in an effort to be uninteresting to the dog that was getting pushy with him. By all accounts, with how other dogs treated him in our time of dog parks, he should be dog aggressive. Most dogs would probably be. I'm super glad he isn't. He actually speaks dog very well and can make himself so uninteresting that even dogs who are reactive don't tend to react to him.

I think rather than doggie daycare, you should perhaps find some people who have dogs he gets along with and who realize he isn't being aggressive and set up playdates instead. Why does your dog HAVE to have interaction with other dogs? Not all dogs will like certain dogs after all. My female shepherd ignores most other dogs unless they really push her. If you push her, she will push back and she will win. I've seen it happen. But in general, she has no interest in dogs who are not in her pack. And my puppy has decided he will be a brat to new dogs, so unless I know he knows the dog well, I am not allowing him to interact anymore.

If your dog parks are anything like the ones we have, they are small and generally full of morons. The most frequented park in our area has some truly delusional people and everyone has their own definition of what is acceptable dog behavior. I prefer sticking with people I know, dogs I know and the hiking group I am in.  Figure you can see it as setting your dog up for success? I'd rather my dog ignore other dogs than open the door for potential issues with other dogs/dog owners out there.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Leerburg | Dog Parks: Why They Are A Bad Idea


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## warpwr (Jan 13, 2011)

My experience is German Shepherd dogs play very rough when they even bother to play with other dogs at the dog park. 

We take or have taken ours and they were all different.
Shadow: no playing around and she wouldn't let other dogs fight.
Kazar: only concerned with Frisbee or if we didn't have one he would take the water valve cover out of the ground and use it instead. Could care less about other dogs.
Miss Molly: chased tennis ball at full speed from one end of the park to the other, only interacted with other dogs if they got too close to Maybelline or my wife, then she would sometimes charge the other dog like a middle linebacker knocking it down and returning to her ball.
Zazzle: very social with other dogs and plays easily and matches the other dogs intensity level, only 6 months old though.

The best play for them is with other German Shepherds.

Diane found *German Shepherd meet-ups at Find your people - Meetup* here. 
Lots of GSD activities.
Maybe you can find some GSD play times near you.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am in the school that only 100% obedient dogs should be at a dog park and it should be a place where people can go play with their dogs offlead, not to expect to sit around while other dogs exercise their dogs for them.  That said, it is not anything close, so I wind up using woodland areas.

I am not a fan of them and think you should not go back until your recall is fast and bombproof and if somebody does not want your dog playing with theirs, you need to have enough control of your dog to stop it.

I stuck to my guns with my current who was targeted to be a working dog and he never got to play with other dogs other than a few well balanced adults when he was a puppy. It did not seem to impair his dog skills one bit and now he relates to other adult dogs in an adult dog manner.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

take your dog to a doggy day camp sometime. there are many dogs at these places that like to play rough. some don't but the rough players tend to stick together. there are people watching trained in what is too rough and can stop them or separate them if need be. it's also great for getting your dog socialized with other dogs.

our dogs go everyday 8 hours a day 'cause my wife works there and they go for free. they both absolutely love going. most dogs there also love it. sometimes they even seperate the rough players and the calmer ones into different yards.

our julie (GSD) rough playing when she was only 6 months old with her BFF stella. they are both employee dogs so were privileged to have a whole yard to themselves that day.





random one.


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## K9POPPY (Mar 6, 2014)

*Dog Parks?*

ColieCT said it very well, whereas the dog parks where I live are small and also filled with morons, just lazy owners that don't have a clue about dog aggression, or for that matter, dog training. Sunflowers also pointed out the best info I have found - Leerburg.com on dog parks. I agree 100% on what they say. As some lawyers say: just a lawsuit waiting to happen. IMHO. Bob:help::help::help:


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

i also don't go to dag parks. my dog once was sharing her ball with a pitbull. they were playing nicely 'till the pitbulls owner threw it a frisbee, when my dog went for the frisbee the pitbull snapped and tried to kill my dog. all the parks here are full of completely untrained pitbulls and i'm not taking the chance anymore.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I think this maybe the write up you are referring to below?

http://sarahwilsondogexpert.com/why-does-my-herding-dog-seem-to-hate-labs/



> Often, herding breeds do not suffer fools gladly and many may consider the “hail fellow well met” attitude of many Labradors to be foolish.


 _On the topic in general_: I agree with the others, IMO, dog parks *generally* aren't worth the hassle, the potential downsides outweigh the benefits in most cases. 

Ilda doesn't tolerate foolish behavior of other dogs too well, she's too serious. Smitty is very neutral around strange dogs, he's friendly, doesn't like to start trouble but when given the opportunity to play he'd rather go off sniff, mark and do his own thing. Autumn probably would be O.K. but we just don't see a need for it. Our dogs have a nice pack including me and hubs, they play, go places with us and seem to be happy well adjusted dogs. 

As Nancy said, it doesn't seem to be as important to a dog's development and well being as maybe we thought in the past.....



Colie CVT said:


> There is a really interesting blog article somewhere I read once that explained why GSD are not dog park dogs. It basically went into how they play and what they consider to be the proper way to deal with other dogs, and how some breeds tend to be so in your face that it usually gets on the nerves of most GSD. In general, GSD are not the kind of dog who want to be social with other dogs. They, like some other breeds, tend to end up dog aggressive/reactive because of not wanting to deal with the more pushy breeds that people tend to own.
> 
> <snipped>.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

warpwr said:


> The best play for them is with other German Shepherds.


Exactly. 

Our breed is inherently pushy and bossy, and we need to be aware of that, and not in denial. 

We think they're adorable and cute, but that is because we are used to them and think they are the most gorgeous, smart, fabulous breed. 

To non-GSD people, they seem scary and aggressive.
If many of these people understood and liked German Shepherds, they wouldn't own anything else.
I can honestly say that even in the many years I longed for one, I was still intimidated when I saw one, especially if I was with my little Pekingese  I have to think these feelings do transfer to their dogs, as well.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Good point Sunflowers.

I was looking at Ilda just yesterday and thinking about how she's such a lovey, snuggly girl with 'her pack' but very aloof to people and dogs she doesn't know.

I can see how that could be perceived as intimidating by other people.

That's why it's nice to hang out with knowledgeable GSD people, they understand and don't expect your GSD to be a snuggly goof ball with every stranger that walks up.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

llombardo said:


> This isn't really true. The people that would do that don't bring their dogs to dog parks. If they were on a walk and were attacked it is a different story.


Actually, this is more true than you would think. People who feel that their dog isn't aggressive or dangerous, but worried about other dogs being aggressive or dangerous, feel as if it is their right to go to a dog park and their right to protect their dog from dogs that they feel shouldn't be there. 

When I worked at a humane society that had a public vet clinic attached, we saw several cases of dogs that had been pepper sprayed at the "unofficial" dog park in town. And wasn't there a case back east somewhere a few years ago about a dog fight in a dog park and one of the owners pulled out a gun and shot and killed the other dog? 
Sheilah


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

sabledog3 said:


> I'm not really understanding the second part of your post...could you clarify?


You said that he doesn't have a good recall in the park so he shouldn't be there at this level.
Having no good recall isn't usually the only issue if you take an honest look at his behavior in general. That's why it is good to have a trainer involved who can point this out. We tend to put our own dogs on a higher pedestal than they belong. Study NILIF, which there is plenty of info about on this forum.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

sit said:


> Actually, this is more true than you would think. People who feel that their dog isn't aggressive or dangerous, but worried about other dogs being aggressive or dangerous, feel as if it is their right to go to a dog park and their right to protect their dog from dogs that they feel shouldn't be there.
> 
> When I worked at a humane society that had a public vet clinic attached, we saw several cases of dogs that had been pepper sprayed at the "unofficial" dog park in town. And wasn't there a case back east somewhere a few years ago about a dog fight in a dog park and one of the owners pulled out a gun and shot and killed the other dog?
> Sheilah


An off duty LEO put 5 rounds into a Husky that was "approaching" his dog in a non aggressive manner, dog died.

Other dogs aren't the only danger to your dog in a dog park. Some dog "owners" show a lack of sense!


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> You said that he doesn't have a good recall in the park so he shouldn't be there at this level.
> Having no good recall isn't usually the only issue if you take an honest look at his behavior in general. That's why it is good to have a trainer involved who can point this out. We tend to put our own dogs on a higher pedestal than they belong. Study NILIF, which there is plenty of info about on this forum.


I already know what nilif is, and like I said his recall is mostly good there, just not 100 percent.

He's going to doggy daycare tomorrow


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I remembered this story about a dog getting stabbed a few years back 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/current-dog-affairs/141179-dog-stabbed-fort-funston.html


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## HuskyMal89 (May 19, 2013)

I'm sure it has already been stated (haven't read through the whole thread) but I would shy away from all dog parks if it was me. I own Alaskan Malamutes, Siberian Huskies and a GSD and a GSD pup. I would never take any of my dogs to dog parks as there are too many unknowns with other people and amongst my dogs and the other dogs.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

sit said:


> Actually, this is more true than you would think. People who feel that their dog isn't aggressive or dangerous, but worried about other dogs being aggressive or dangerous, feel as if it is their right to go to a dog park and their right to protect their dog from dogs that they feel shouldn't be there.
> 
> Sheilah


 
I wasn't referring to the general public but to actual people on this forum that know the difference. I can say that when the Rott attacked my pup, after several minutes of trying to get the dog off the pup, my friend was going for his knife. I was screaming at him not to stab the dog and at that time the dog finally let go.


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## sunsets (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm lucky in that my favorite dog park is a private one with a good number of regulars. I've seen some scrums, but they are very quickly taken care of and repeat offenders have been banned by the staff. 

Unfortunately GSDs can get very LOUD in their playing. Heinz is very good about playing nicely, especially with little dogs, he just sounds like a big meanie when he does it. If he hooks up with a big dog, we often get a great show of "grizzly bear fighting" full of sound and fury (but ultimately signifying nothing). When Heinz finds a new playmate I try to make a point to go talk to the other owner and get a sense for how worried they are about tooth baring, growling and pawing. If they seem nervous, I call Heinz off and we find some other dog to play with. If he's being obstinate about it and gets obsessed with a "forbidden" dog we call it a night, he goes back on the leash and has to wait while I finish my pint in the bar instead of in the dog yard. 

Ultimately, you have to know your dog and respect that other owners don't view his behavior as benignly as you do.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

I think a lot of owners of various dogs are in denial about their own dogs and don't fully understand their dogs behaviors. They view actions as innocent play or believe their dogs would never attack or be aggressive towards other dogs or people. Thing is, you never know, when where or the direct cause of an incident. Your left with questions after it has happened, along with possible vet bills for either your dog or both dogs depending on how things went down.

I found this out first hand with my own previous GSD. Well mannered, calm, did not seem fearful. Very obedient almost perfect adult GSD. He was off leash most of his life. He had the run of the house unattended with numerous cats at his disposal. Everything was fine until one day out of the blue we had him laying in the garage with us while we just sat in our lawn chairs enjoying the sunset. I seen two kids on skateboards coming down the opposite side of the street, one kid had his Australian Shepherd pulling him as they disappeared behind my truck. What I didn't realize was they had crossed the street while out of view, but it did not concern me because Rocky had never been aggressive towards other animals or people for that matter. When their dog came into the driveway, all I remember was seeing a black streak flying out of my garage and myself getting up and running after him. In about 2 seconds Rocky (my dog) chest rammed the side of the other dog putting him on his side and by that time, I had Rocky by the collar. Then looking at the boy was something I'll always remember, he was petrified. I apologized and from then on, Rocky was kept on a leader when we were out front. The boy's dog was fine, he didn't know what hit him. Had I not been quick enough, Rocky would have torn that other dog up. Strange thing is, just a few minutes before all of that, people walked a different dog past us but on the opposite side of the street and no reaction out of Rocky.

Just when you think you know, sometimes they surprise you with something you don't know.


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

It's just frustrating when your dog makes a single noise and people freak out. I think part of it is that people think my boy looks scary and often ask if he's a coyote/wolf....

He has some great friends there, mostly other gsds and a few pitties


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

He also loves small dogs and had learned not to trample them 

I do not think my dog is perfect, but he's certainly not aggressive.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Why can't you go do something like hike or fetch? Something where you are actually interacting with your dog? Why go dog park and stand around having to tell your dog "no" and "stop' all day? 

Btw you don't think your dog is aggressive but rough play can easily turn into a fight. Ever seen two human brothers wrestling? If your dog is in a fight good luck recalling him then. The risks of dog park Far outweigh the benefits.


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

boomer11 said:


> Why can't you go do something like hike or fetch? Something where you are actually interacting with your dog? Why go dog park and stand around having to tell your dog "no" and "stop' all day?
> 
> Btw you don't think your dog is aggressive but rough play can easily turn into a fight. Ever seen two human brothers wrestling? If your dog is in a fight good luck recalling him then. The risks of dog park Far outweigh the benefits.


Actually we do hike about 3-4 Times a week. We go to the dog park to get around other dogs. The park we go to is big and like hiking in a lot of ways. I also don't yell at my dog the whole time, he's mostly really really good there.

And he doesn't play with toys...


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

How old is your dog?

He's already starting to show signs of aggression. Too rough one day, turns into a fight the next day. No offense, but you sound a lot like an oblivious owner who doesn't realize what kind of dog and breed they own. Unfortunately, our breed is known for aggression and is dangerous no matter how you slice it. I always thought I had a wonderful, submissive, never hurt anything dog. Then he turned one and I saw him slam a great dane to the ground...I quickly realized that my dog was capable of a lot more than what he showed as a pup.

I'm not 100% against dog parks. I go once in a while...but I'm on my dog's butt like white on rice. If I see him focusing on a dog for 5 seconds too long, I call him over to me and we do something else, or go to another side of the park. Unfortunately, a 100 lbs lab can get away with a lot more "rough play" than my 85 lbs shepherd.

Most people won't correct someone else's dog...especially if its a GSD. So its up to you to watch owners, and watch other dogs and make sure your dog isn't being too rough or getting too excited and correct him or distract him when necessary.

And the growling thing...I don't believe in "play growling." I've seen too many dogs growl at the wrong dog while the owner was screaming "he plays like that" only to have the other dog turn around and snap at the dog that's growling. And sorry, no matter how many times you tell me your dog "play growls" its a generally accepted sign of anger/aggression and if my dog reacts to it (which he does), it's not my fault. As soon as a loud dog joins the pack...my dog leaves the pack and we go for a walk.


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

martemchik said:


> How old is your dog?
> 
> He's already starting to show signs of aggression. Too rough one day, turns into a fight the next day. No offense, but you sound a lot like an oblivious owner who doesn't realize what kind of dog and breed they own. Unfortunately, our breed is known for aggression and is dangerous no matter how you slice it. I always thought I had a wonderful, submissive, never hurt anything dog. Then he turned one and I saw him slam a great dane to the ground...I quickly realized that my dog was capable of a lot more than what he showed as a pup.
> 
> ...


Thanks for calling me oblivious despite the fact that my dog can do about every command he knows at the dog park including come with over 90 percent accuracy.also I used to run a dog daycare for large dogs, and yes dogs growl while playing a lot! And they are really just playing


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Lol 90% accuracy. That pretty much means your dog isn't reliable. You are oblivious. You come here and start a post saying you encountered problems at the park and then basically spend the entire time telling everyone how awesome your dog is. 

You realize German shepherds are born with natural aggression right? Your dog can be nice and friendly but another dog can be aggressive. Your dog could stick up for himself and there's a fight. I bet you get blamed. Not to mention you say your dog plays rough. That right there is a ticking time bomb for a fight.

You wouldn't have created this thread if people at the park weren't complaining about you and your dog. People here are just trying to warn you but it seems like you have it figured out with your 90% recall aka the dog chooses to come whenever he pleases.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

sabledog3 said:


> He also loves small dogs and had learned not to trample them
> 
> I do not think my dog is perfect, but he's certainly not aggressive.


I admire you defending your dog. I don't think anyone is saying that there is a problem with your dog. Your dog is doing what comes natural to him. What they are saying is they are still unpredictable. The growling and snapping alerts people not used to those sounds coming out of their dog and associate those sounds with an aggressive dog. That's when that recall needs to happen to tone things down a little. It may not even be your dog that starts it, but being your dog is a GSD, it's automatically his fault. 

Things can escalate, and all it takes is another dog making the wrong move. Your dog may not be aggressive in certain situations, but your dog may BECOME aggressive if exposed to the wrong dog or situation where they feel threatened or you're threatened. I gave the example in my first post with my GSD. He WAS a non aggressive dog too, until that situation arose.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

jafo220 said:


> Things can escalate, and all it takes is another dog making the wrong move. Your dog may not be aggressive in certain situations, but your dog may BECOME aggressive if exposed to the wrong dog or situation where they feel threatened or you're threatened. I gave the example in my first post with my GSD. He WAS a non aggressive dog too, until that situation arose.


Yes, this is so true. Eko was not dog aggressive until another dog started a fight with Xena when she was only 4 months old and everyone started screaming while I pulled them apart. He went berserk and was never the same after that. I think he thought the dog was attacking me as well as Xena and he is protective of us both.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

sabledog3 said:


> Thanks for calling me oblivious despite the fact that my dog can do about every command he knows at the dog park including come with over 90 percent accuracy.also I used to run a dog daycare for large dogs, and yes dogs growl while playing a lot! And they are really just playing


If you cannot call your dog with 100% accuracy then you have a problem.

If people are complaining about your dog, then you have a problem. They have a right to be there with your dog playing rough if they don't want that to happen.

He did not "get along with dogs" until recently? Odd, I would think it would be maturity that would make the relationships a little more tense, not the other way around. 

Honestly, I would love to be able to go to a dog park as some are large, safe areas to play with your dog, and my dog is well behaved and I can tell him to leave other dogs alone and he will. He actually had to do one search call-out with a pesky chihuahua running underneath his belly about half the time. but I would not subject him to dogs who don't know their boundaries. He has no need to play with other dogs and does not need exposure to dogs that are not controlled by their owners. Fortunately stray dogs actually, for the most part, know how to behave like proper adult dogs and don't cause us many problems.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Being oblivious has nothing to do with knowing how reliable your dog is, or understanding dog behavior because you worked at a dog day care. It’s about understanding that you own a GSD, and that even ONE aggressive incident is too much. You’d be amazed at the damage your dog is capable of in the time it would take you to get to him if he’s even just 50 feet away from you. And if he does it to a small dog? Who knows…

My dog is a lot like yours…he plays pretty well with small dogs, it’s the larger dogs that he feels he needs to put in their place. But I have realized that its WAY too dangerous to allow him to play with small dogs because if that thing snaps at him, and he decides to snap back, it probably won’t end well. So I don’t allow my dog to play with small dogs, no matter how much the other owner is trying to tell me their dog loves to play with big dogs and thinks he’s a big dog…I don’t care. On the small chance that my dog does react to something that little Chihuahua does…I can guarantee you he’ll get blamed.

You should realize that there are probably 2 other breeds that if your dog got in a scuffle with, they’d get blamed. All other dogs out there…the looks and comments will be coming your way. I remember when I was walking around a park and a labradoodle was busy trying to hump away at my boy…the owner was probably a good 100 yards away. If I hadn’t taken it into my hands to remove the doodle myself…no one would’ve cared that the thing was trying to dominate a GSD for the last 5 minutes and so finally the GSD told it off.

So maybe the best way of putting it is that you’re not oblivious to your dog, or dog interactions. You’re oblivious about what other people (the general public) think of your dog, our breed, and any type of aggressive behavior that a dog exhibits.

For example…if our two dogs were at the dog park, and your dog started to “play growl” at my dog, and my dog decided to grab him by the neck and slam him to the ground…what would your post be on this forum? Would you say, “my sweetest, nicest, little boy, was attacked by a vicious GSD at the dog park today. All my boy did was try to initiate play by growling at him and that dog grabbed him by the neck and tried to kill him! People shouldn’t bring dogs like that into the dog park!”

Sorry…I’ve just seen it too many times on this forum. There was one a year or so ago about how his female “didn’t mean to put punctures in the other dog, he was just getting too annoying.” Right…the punctures were an accident even though I’ve watched my dogs grab each other all the time without breaking skin...


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

I'm a little disturbed to be a new member of a forum where people call others oblivious...

1-no animal performs with 100 percent accuracy. Not even people. 

2-my dog doesn't snap at other dogs or get after them out try to put them in their place. He does great with almost all dogs at the park, the only time he had trouble is when he wants to play rough and the other dog doesn't. What will happen is he paws at the other dog and they tell him no and he doesn't listen. He had been corrected by dogs before and he takes it fine, but don't dogs he just doesn't listen to. He had never been in or any part of a dog fight. Most people at the park love him and he has lots of friends there.

3- aggression means intent to do harm, wrestling and rough housing is not aggression.

He went to daycare today and did awesome.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

How old is your dog!?!?!?!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

It sounds like that only the others in the park have a problem then. If you ask for advice and people on the forum help you as best as they can, it is odd that in the end nothing seems to be wrong.
I see that often as a trainer. I point out what they need to do and then I get the famous, "Yes, buts...."
So, I you have a problem, get a trainer and listen with an open mind. Final answer.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

sabledog3 said:


> I'm a little disturbed to be a new member of a forum where people call others oblivious...
> 
> 1-no animal performs with 100 percent accuracy. Not even people.
> 
> ...


Just so you know, not everyone hates dog parks here. 
Like you, I take my dog to dog parks, beaches, doggie day camp. Up to now it works for us. Like yours he has many friends ( dog park small dogs and big dogs mixed together). 
Some dogs and some people shouldn't go to dog parks though. If Dex becomes one of those, then I won't take him. 

In regards to rough play, everyone knows him at the dog park so they don't have a problem with him playing with their small dog. Never the less, I don't allow him to get excited and trample any of them. We mostly play in the big dog corner. If anyone new would come and they are apprehensive of my dogs play, I respect that and immediately recall him. We're not perfect but I try to put the shoe on the other foot. I would never just allow my dog to pester another dog whether I feel like its play or not. Maybe 6 months from now, we won't do dog parks, who knows. But I agree, things could happen anywhere as Ive read on this forum, you can walk down the street with your dog on leash and be attacked by another dog.


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

I know I sound defensive and I hate that, but I know the answer isn't that my dog is aggressive and I'm oblivious. I know it's always a risk going to the dog park, and that is one I'm obviously willing to take. As stated earlier,I have stopped taking him until I can figure this out. He still be going to daycare one per week for about 2 hrs. We were only going to the dog park on weekends. We also consistently work commands in distracting places, including come.

He probably just turned 2. I got him at about a year and a half. Recently neutered the month before I got him. He was a stray. I know
I he was not around other dogs for at least 5 months between the shelter and the rescue. Before that is unknown.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I too am one of the few that don't hate dog parks.. I have had luck with them and owners who give a hoot. However, people are going to get uncomfortable with a larger dog growling even when playing.. and while we know the difference they may not, as well as the other dog may just simply not tolerate it. 

I'm lucky enough that Titan doesn't have a desire to interact with the other dogs at the park. That's not why we go. We go because it's much larger than my yard and he likes to sprint for his ball. He is oblivious to most other dogs and the only time he has responded to another dog is when they were trying to play and he didn't appreciate it. The owner didn't have control over his dog that kept poking at Titan to chase him and barking at him the whole way he went to get the ball and back, even nipping to play because that is something dogs do. While I knew he was playing, I still made the owner leash his dog while we were there because Titan had just about had it and I knew was going to turn into a fight if the dog kept at it, because every dog has a breaking point. Same concept for you.

Even if you know he's good and playing, the other dog just may not like it either then it turns into a huge fight and your dog would have been the instigator. Not to mention, here in certain parks (I stay away from) people have been known to take their guns to dog parks. I would hate to be in a situation where my dog was viewed as a threat and shot and killed. 

At this point you have the control to change the situation. That may mean avoiding dog parks until you get everything 100% trained. Being almost 100% accurate is like saying he's 90% potty trained. He is or he isn't.

The reason people are saying you are oblivious is just because you asked for advice and everyone is pretty much saying the same thing and you are in denial. Your dog is not aggressive or "bad." Just needs to learn some manners, and more visits to the DP without you doing anything is certainly only going to escalate everything. You should be able to say with 100% confidence that you have control over your dog, but you can't. You can only say that about 90% of the time. What about the 10% That's a huge difference when it comes to dog fighting and obedience. It's the reason I am breaking from SAR, Titan has a 95% recall.. and that's not good enough for me because that could cause serious issue while we work.. 

Just take the advice people are giving you. You aren't a bad person, your dog isn't aggressive, YET, (it only takes one event) so pause for a while, get your dog into more training and then go back when he's 100% solid.


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## sabledog3 (Apr 27, 2014)

Wyoung, I'm frustrated because that's exactly what I am doing. And while that is all fine and good, that doesn't necessarily teach him to be less socially awkward. This is why he's going to daycare, there he can be corrected for not listening to the other dogs.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree that a dog can perform a command 100 percent reliably every time 

Thank you for your input


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

If your dog wants to play with another dog that doesn't want to play with him, go get him and distract him by playing ball, chase etc with him. If he goes back to the other dog, get him and take him home. He will learn.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Sounds to me that you have a decent understanding of your dog considering you haven't had him long. And you are trying to figure out the unknown by consulting a behaviorist. BUT my first concern is always MY DOG. Even if she is not the one at fault....she is the GSD and will get blamed. And if she plays a bit rough and it turns into something more serious....she is the GSD and will get blamed. My girl unfortunately is reactive to other dogs. She has never been in a fight or bitten another dog but that is only because I try very hard to avoid a situation where that could happen. She is not aggressive, she is reactive, but that could easily turn into aggression I think. She went to dog parks when she was younger...she was pinned and bullied by older dogs that were "just playing rough". I wish I could go back in time....dog parks would have been on my do not go there list. 
I see a big difference in her behavior when she is with dogs that have knowledgable owners vs the average pet owner. Sadly, dog parks seem to have more of the latter. 
If I had to do it all over I wouldn't worry so much about her playing with unknown dogs. I would stick to dogs I know for socialization.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

sabledog3 said:


> Wyoung, I'm frustrated because that's exactly what I am doing. And while that is all fine and good, that doesn't necessarily teach him to be less socially awkward. This is why he's going to daycare, there he can be corrected for not listening to the other dogs.
> 
> I think we are going to have to agree to disagree that a dog can perform a command 100 percent reliably every time
> 
> Thank you for your input


I would talk to those that do competitions of any kind, OB, Rally, ScH/IPO, working dogs of any kind: LE K9, military K9, SAR, etc.. or simply just research them. They don't have room to not listen 100% of the time. So I am not going to agree to disagree, because there's just too much evidence. I will, however, not argue with you, I digress..

Who is doing the correcting at doggy daycare?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

If you are going to continue to go to the dog park, fine, jsut make sure you put yourself in the situation where you have all the control. Be right with your dog 100% of the time and when he doesn't listen, leash and do OB, then repeat. That would be my only other suggestion.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

See...I'm not calling your dog aggressive. I'm saying he has aggression. It's a normal thing, that shouldn't upset you, shouldn't get your riled up, shouldn't make you think any less of your dog or your ability as an owner. Our breed has aggression...and if you want to sit there and deny it, thinking you own some sort of lab or poodle...that makes you oblivious.

It's not a bad thing for your dog to have aggression. You just have to accept that there are dangerous situations at the dog park and unfortunately, our breed is more prone to either causing them or just plain getting blamed for them.

He's maturing, you don't know his genetics, there are a lot of questions about him right now. Again...not a terrible thing. But you just have to open your eyes to the fact that your dog has the ability to hurt other dogs and rough play today...leads to something happening tomorrow, especially if you don't have 100% recall (which is possible).

The only reason I'm telling you this is because I was just like you 2 years ago. I thought I had the sweetest most submissive GSD in the world that would never hurt any other dog because he loved to play so much and could get a bit too rough sometimes. I'm telling you, that switch flips super fast...it took me weeks to see it. It was play play play play, and then all of the sudden BAM! It's actually much easier to see it in the other dogs...their tails usually stop wagging, they start running away more and not really enjoying the game of chase.


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