# tell the difference between . . .



## ginrinbreeze (Dec 19, 2010)

I have found that working vs show pedigrees are difficult to tell apart by titles as many show lines have working titles. Is there a way I can tell? I would like a high drive competition dog and am not terrible concerned with color pattern etc.

I've been looking at these.



Izak Boharina - German shepherd dog 

X 

Schneider Orka - German shepherd dog

Cold von Tommys Ranch - German shepherd dog

x

Quera Vitaxis - German shepherd dog

or


Izak Boharina - German shepherd dog 

x

V Chanell vom Frankengold - German shepherd dog


Any comments or suggestions would be great

Thanks

Gene


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

All the dogs you linked are show lines. Show lines have a very uniform look, going back several generations, with classic Black/Reg Saddle-back pattern. 

If you look at pedigrees of working lines, you will see more variation with sables, blanket backs, solid blacks and bicolours. 

Usually one needs to be familiar with the different kennel names and individual dogs in the pedigrees to know if a dog is show or working line, but there is a difference also in how the dogs look that can help differentiate. 

If you are looking for working lines, mention the area you are in, and people can give you some breeder recommendations.


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## ginrinbreeze (Dec 19, 2010)

Thanks thats what I wanted to know.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

That's pretty typical for German showlines. If you look at all the dogs in the pedigree for Izak Boharina - German shepherd dog pretty much each and every photo looks almost the same, but they may be facing a different direction! Really a typical 'look' they are going for with the red/black saddle. Many of them also tend to have an upward arch to their back.

German workinglines show a different variety as soon as you click on a similar pedigree page Beretta vom Wildhaus - German shepherd dog a hodgepodge of color with alot more sables and blacks. Also flatter backs (no upward arch).


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

<3 <3 <3 Ernst. can't believe he's only rated SG


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> http://cdn.pedigreedatabase.com/pictures/492867.jpghttp://cdn.pedigreedatabase.com/pictures/586190.jpg
> 
> That's pretty typical for German showlines. If you look at all the dogs in the pedigree for Izak Boharina - German shepherd dog pretty much each and every photo looks almost the same, but they may be facing a different direction! Really a typical 'look' they are going for with the red/black saddle. Many of them also tend to have an upward arch to their back.
> http://cdn.pedigreedatabase.com/pictures/122775.jpghttp://cdn.pedigreedatabase.com/pictures/367732.jpghttp://cdn.pedigreedatabase.com/pictures/302.jpg


I asked this on another thread but haven't seen an answer. Do you know what causes that arch in their back? Is it just the way they're stacked or is it still there when they aren't stacked?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The arching of the back is bred into most showlines - it helps the dog maintain the smooth, continuous flow of the top line the standard calls for. Something along the lines that the overall impression should be of smooth curves vs. angles. Another part of the standard that has been liberally interpreted by some breeders. It is accented and exagerated by the way the dogs are stacked, but their spine do have an arc to them. Not all, mind you. A lot of breeders will still breed for a more balanced, less extreme look.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I really like Linda Shaw's Illustrated Standard for explaining conformation issues.

Here's the bit about the roach back.
Illustrated Standard of the German Shepherd Dog, THE BACK


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Something along the lines that the overall impression should be of smooth curves vs. angles


I never saw that in the German version of the standard, only the American, and it's referring to the hindquarter


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Xeph said:


> <3 <3 <3 Ernst. can't believe he's only rated SG


I see this a lot with very nice (IMO) working lines and wonder if it's because they showed the dog before 2 years in order to get the show card for the KKL? For example, right now Nikon is SG b/c he was last shown at 13 months, and once he titles I may do the KKL but don't have to actually show my dog since he already has a show card of G or better.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> it helps the dog maintain the smooth, continuous flow of the top line the standard calls for. Something along the lines that the overall impression should be of smooth curves vs. angles. Another part of the standard that has been liberally interpreted by some breeders. It is accented and exagerated by the way the dogs are stacked, but their spine do have an arc to them. Not all, mind you. A lot of breeders will still breed for a more balanced, less extreme look.


Thanks for your reply. It looks like the arc would cause back problems at some point, but I'm probably relating it to humans. (when we get older we worry about our backs starting to arc, lol)


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Xeph said:


> I never saw that in the German version of the standard, only the American, and it's referring to the hindquarter


Interesting . . . but you are right! I wasn't aware that this part was not in the SV standard. Wonder where the justification for the roach back comes from then?


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

From what history I've read, when it was introduced the justification used was that the arch was much like a bridge. That an arch presents a stronger structure.



> Interesting . . . but you are right!


That happens sometimes :rofl:


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Xeph said:


> From what history I've read, when it was introduced the justification used was that the arch was much like a bridge. That an arch presents a stronger structure.
> 
> 
> > Interesting . . . but you are right!
> ...


LOL! Sorry, I didn't mean it that way!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> :rofl: LOL! Sorry, I didn't mean it that way!


I know you didn't! I was just making a joke (I thought the smiley would convey that, lol).


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## proAppsPro (Dec 4, 2010)

So these dogs probably would not Schutzhund well even though the other dogs in the ped have sch/ipo titles?

They most likely had lower scores?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

For the most part, if your goal is to be competitive in SchH then you want a working line dog (whether West German, Czech, and some DDR or a mixture). This is just reality. Most of the show lines title because they must. Their main goal is the show ring. You must decide what your goals are and then pick accordingly.


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