# How Long did it take you to Title your Dog?



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I was wondering how long it took you guys to title your dogs, particularly in SchH. I was reading the rules and it says you can enter your dog in for a SchH3 title at 20 months of age if they have SchH1 and 2 titles. Is it common for dogs under two to get a SchH 3? Or even a SchH 1 or 2? 
Also, what line(s) is/are the dog(s) you titled? Working line, showline....


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I haven't yet titled my dog and he will be 3 in March. He is working line WG/Czech. We do have a BH. 
To me it isn't about how quickly you title, but the foundation and proper training to get to those titles.
I know of a dog on this board that was barely 2 and already a ScH3! Sent off for titles so he could be studded. He is ooh'd and aah'd over because of his looks(SL)and has already sired litters and only 2 yrs old.
I heard thru the grapevine that his bitework lacks big time. Titles should take time and the dog needs to mature before pressure(mental) is applied if you are doing it right. Once you get a one, then a two and three following quickly is ok, but the dog should be ready for a 3 when they do the one. It will show in future trials whether the foundation was strong or rushed. I'd rather have my dog look confident and powerful every time out. 
But I think the ones that rush thru to title are not really into trialing and training, just want to be done with it for breeding purposes.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Nike had her 1 before she was 2. I used to train with a woman that had the 3 on her bitch just after she turned 2. For the most part I don't like pushing the dogs. Boys usually take longer. For the girls 2.5-3.5 is reasonable. The boys 3-4 is more probable. Show dogs are often pushed to get them titled earlier for the show ring and for breeding.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Nikon (WGSL) got his BH when he was 22 months and his SchH1 just over 3 years old. He could have done that 6 months earlier or even a year earlier but we had other things that effected how much time I could train and prepare enough for a trial. He did do his SDA T1-FO-PA when he was 26 months (sort of the SDA equivalent to SchH1).

Pan (working lines) will do his BH in the spring, he was two weeks too young to enter our trial and I don't have vacation days left to travel to a Dec trial down south. He is ready for a BH but will not be ready for the SchH1 for a while since I haven't even started a retrieve and probably won't until summer or next fall.

I don't think "common" really matters. It is a combination of the maturity of the dog and handler, the ability to train and prepare for a trial, the lines of the dog, the goals for the dog. I know with females it's trickier because of heat cycles and breeding.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Aiden trialed for his BH as exactly 15 months (the youngest age to enter). He is now 29 months old and won't be trialing for his SchH1 until the spring or fall. He's actually half WGSL and half working lines, so its been a battle balancing out his drive with his urge to just look pretty  Now that he's about 2 1/2 years old, he's strating to mature more (mentally) so its getting easier for us.

I agree with what Liesje said about each individual dog/handlers level of maturity. It all depends on that.

Forgot to say that he started training at around 6 months or so.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Okay. I was just curious. I knew it wasn't the quickest process, since it's a 3 part sport, but I wanted to know from some of you guys so that if it took me 3 years to get a SchH title on my future GSD, I wouldn't get discouraged.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Konotashi said:


> Okay. I was just curious. I knew it wasn't the quickest process, since it's a 3 part sport, but I wanted to know from some of you guys so that if it took me 3 years to get a SchH title on my future GSD, I wouldn't get discouraged.


LOL no, that is a very reasonable time-frame. I've been training for five years and I have yet to get a SchH/IPO title. 

Jane is right on the money, not something you want to rush. I got Gryff's BH when he was 15 months too, and looks like he will be trialing for his IPO I next September, he will be 3 1/2 years old. I'm eager to get some more letters by his name, but really I'm in no big rush.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I always kind of worry about these breeders who brag on their website that their dogs "Achieved SchHIII by 20 months of age!" Especially when it's every dog.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

My boy gets really insecure if I try and rush him into anything, so we just take our time  I know he'll get there some day but I've got no reason to hurry.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Kessy was a year and a half for her Schh1. We did a BH and OB1 after a year, but the other 2 phases weren't ready yet. 
Her HGH took 2 years - we were ready before that, maybe after after a year and a half, but the only trials are in October so we had to wait.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Konotashi said:


> Okay. I was just curious. I knew it wasn't the quickest process, since it's a 3 part sport, but I wanted to know from some of you guys so that if it took me 3 years to get a SchH title on my future GSD, I wouldn't get discouraged.


Don't get discouraged at all - the time it takes is the time it takes. Some dogs are indeed capable of attaining such titles at the minimum age and do so with success. It can depend on so many variables including the dog, the handler, and the resources available to help you both get there. Enjoy the training along the way and give it your all


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

I just titled a bitch from nothing to SchH1 in 6 months. A friend of mine put a SchH1 on a dog in three weeks. 

I had the chance to train with one of the "greats" from Belgium and he said "three years is an old dog, if you have not accomplished anything by then (meaning winning BIG trials) then sell him and try again with a new dog. "


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I personally don't think that is a worthy statement, even if he is 'great'. It is about the journey with my dog, not about the wins or trials. I can see a 6 month window, but 3 weeks from nothing to all phases is unrealistic. I can only imagine how much the dog enjoyed those 3 weeks...


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Konotashi said:


> I was wondering how long it took you guys to title your dogs, particularly in SchH. I was reading the rules and it says you can enter your dog in for a SchH3 title at 20 months of age if they have SchH1 and 2 titles. Is it common for dogs under two to get a SchH 3? Or even a SchH 1 or 2?
> Also, what line(s) is/are the dog(s) you titled? Working line, showline....


Gnash got his BH under 2 years and SchH1 at 2 years. We trial for SchH2 next week (gulp) and then trial for SchH3 in Feb when he will just under 3 years age.

If you train and title a pup yourself, it does take time. If you buy a dog/title then it is easier and I have seen SchH3 dogs at 2 years of age but they do not know anything It is a business type thing, not real titles. These dogs are just used for breeding typically, not trialling as can not pass a real trial.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Good luck on the 2, Gnash and Faisal! I'm sure you'll rock it!


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

onyx'girl said:


> Good luck on the 2, Gnash and Faisal! I'm sure you'll rock it!


Thanks Jane, with Gnash every trial is "touch n go" with lots of entertainment. This dog is always on the verge of being out of control


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I personally don't think that is a worthy statement, even if he is 'great'.


Of course this was coming from someone who won the WUSV with a 2 year old dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

of course...


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I can only imagine how much the dog enjoyed those 3 weeks...


Think of it this way, that is 21 days of training. If you only train once per week that is over 5 months of training. How much do you accomplish in 5 months? Now imagine that when an issue or problem arose you knew why and knew what to do about it. And you can begin to see how it is possible to train a dog in three weeks.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Zahnburg said:


> I had the chance to train with one of the "greats" from Belgium and he said "three years is an old dog, if you have not accomplished anything by then (meaning winning BIG trials) then sell him and try again with a new dog. "


I think that disposition is more reflective of a genuine competitor, or maybe a professional kennel, or both.

More regular folks are in love with their individual dog, and selling it would be unthinkable, regardless the shortcomings. So building bridges around faults, combined with our strengths or weaknesses as trainers influence the time required to title.....for what its worth from someone who has trained GSDs for almost 14 years and has never titled a dog in anything! LOL 

Another pragmatic aspect to consider is breeding, or not breeding. For ordinary people, who will never breed their dog...the time line is open, there is no rush to accomplish a title sooner to ensure more viability in the breeding capacity of the bitch.

Konotashi, by the time you get your GSD, you'll be one of the most informed new GSD puppy owners anyone could imagine.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Zahnburg said:


> Think of it this way, that is 21 days of training. If you only train once per week that is over 5 months of training. How much do you accomplish in 5 months? Now imagine that when an issue or problem arose you knew why and knew what to do about it. And you can begin to see how it is possible to train a dog in three weeks.


Actually, indeed there is something to be said for that, so long as the dog has the willingness and stamina to endure such a rigorous training schedule (I'm quite sure Jax would be in heaven with that arrangement!). If one looks at the areas in which training can be done so frequently, it is not completely unreasonable to expect that a dog could well be ready in those such phases. TR and OB we have been at the level of a 3 for quite some time...protection not so much, as unfortunately repitition and frequency of work is not something we have had much luxury with having in the past. Capable dog, just lack of training availability. 

Helpers are worth their weight in gold, as there is only so much a handler who is willing to learn can do. But always a benefit to learn to do helper work to help out...I may not be grand at it but learning as we go .

Best of luck to you Faisal and Gnash!!! I can relate, as I have a similarly-typed dog LOL. 

And Wayne, good point indeed as well.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I can see training a dog in a short span and not necessarily having a rushed title. Someone once told me that you can start playing an instrument at say age 12 and in a few years become just as accomplished as a kid who started at say age 2 (assuming both have some innate talent). Who knows if that's true but the same could be said for training dogs, you don't *have* to start with a puppy and train for a minimum of 15 months to get started titling. If I wanted to do Schutzhund primarily to be competitive I'd probably get a dog that's about a year old and then start training.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I can't wait to read the "21 days to title" blog/nook/book/youtube! I bet it will be a best-seller, especially in the SL world.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Still working on it. Let's see, 2 1/2 years of bad training, 1 year of way to much OT at work to accomplish what I needed with my new trainer, and 3 months of a lame knee so off to the ortho. So, my 4 year old has a couple legs in agility and that's it.

ETA: didn't realize this was a SchH thread! Sorry!


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I can't wait to read the "21 days to title" blog/nook/book/youtube! I bet it will be a best-seller, especially in the SL world.


Jane,

It is funny that you choose to ridicule what you don't understand.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd love to see a blog or video on what it takes to take a green dog from nothing to a 1 in 3 weeks. Retrieves, blind search, send out, and tracking in three weeks with no prior foundation training? The dog and handler must be amazing.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

Jane,

Seriously? Send out takes three sessions. Blind search, two sessions. I finished retrieves on my bitch in two weeks (0 to finish) and if I was half the trainer this guy is I would be giving seminars all over the world.

Yeah, some folks ARE that F'ing good!


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Zahnburg said:


> Jane,
> 
> It is funny that you choose to ridicule what you don't understand.


.....and the pot calls the kettle black.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

???


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Art - how long do you train one dog per day? Do you break it up in sessions?


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

My apologies Mr. Swift, wrong thread.:blush:


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> Art - how long do you train one dog per day? Do you break it up in sessions?


For example, my last dog. Tracking at least 6 days per week, usually 7. Obedience at least 6 days per week, usually 7. To me, obedience is the entire routine, so figure 20 min to 1 hour for obedience. When working on something special, like the retrieve, figure more time. With this dog when I taught the retrive, it was normal obedience routine with retrieve training factored in (heeling, sim,dimw/recall, retrieves,sendout) , then two more sessions of just retrieves. And, protection as often as my helper is available, at least twice per week, preferably more often.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Stark will be 3 in April and will be doing his BH in the first spring trial near our home (within a 5 hour drive or so), hopefully shortly after we will try for a "1".

Zefra will be doing her BH when she is 15 months if everything keeps on the path it is going. Shortly after her "1" as well. Of course she could throw a curve ball at me later on, but so far so good. 

Stark was a tough one to work with and still can be but it has gotten so much better. He actually WANTS to work (some of the time) with me now.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So you are training 1-2 hours per day including all components? She certainly seemed happy and not at all stressed in the videos while you were trialing so you must be doing something right.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> So you are training 1-2 hours per day including all components? She certainly seemed happy and not at all stressed in the videos while you were trialing so you must be doing something right.


 I guess 1 -2 hours per day. Of course the dog is happy, GSDs ARE working dogs! They enjoy working. If your GSD does not enjoy working then there is a serious problem, either with the dog or with the training.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> I'd love to see a blog or video on what it takes to take a green dog from nothing to a 1 in 3 weeks. Retrieves, blind search, send out, and tracking in three weeks with no prior foundation training? The dog and handler must be amazing.


I'm right there with you Jane!! Video moreso! Would love to see what it really takes and more importantly what the dog goes through..


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Raiser has a DVD that shows how he took a green dog from basic to a 98 points SchH1 protection in 21 sessions. The DVD (and the dog) is called "Aristo".


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Do you have that DVD set,Jason?


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## ed1911 (Jan 19, 2011)

Both of my dogs were 2 years old and already titled in AKC obedience and rally when I started Schutzhund. My male got his BH 2 weeks after we started, I hope to put a 1 on him in march which will be 5 months of training. My female may do her BH and 1 in march as well.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Do you have that DVD set,Jason?


I think Lies might have my copy.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

onyx'girl said:


> Do you have that DVD set,Jason?


Yes I have it. I can bring it along next time we see each other. I have a bunch that are Jason's.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

My dog is 4 and still not titled. We trialed for our BH back in may and bombed it. I felt better when the majority of the other BH dogs did the same things he did. I just didn't another trial this summer as I chose to do some seminars instead. He'll get his BH soon.

He has everything needed for a 1, but control is an issue in bitework with him. 

My dog is a dog that gets bored very easily so I decided to do Personal Protection training with him. Not really thinking about how it would affect Schutzhund but it has, so it has set us back a lot. plus I'm nowwhere near the caliber of handler that my dog truly needs. He can work and that's all I care about. I've learned a ton with him and one day he'll get titles but I'm done rushing and pushing him to suit other people. 

My little APBT bitch will be trialed at 15 months for her BH, so the beginning of July!!!


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> Raiser has a DVD that shows how he took a green dog from basic to a 98 points SchH1 protection in 21 sessions. The DVD (and the dog) is called "Aristo".


Jason~
do you have a link where one can purchase his video?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Out of curiousity, Art, that dog that won the WUSV at 2, how many times did he make it to the WUSV after that and how did he do? Are there videos?


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

lhczth said:


> Out of curiousity, Art, that dog that won the WUSV at 2, how many times did he make it to the WUSV after that and how did he do? Are there videos?


He won a second time with a different handler. I do not know how many times total he showed at WUSV.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

I would also love to get a hold of (or how to get) that video - have never heard of it before this thread. Sounds intriguing.

Art, would you consider sharing which dog this was? If so, I would greatly appreciate it, which ever way you like is you are willing (PM or posting).


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

In Raiser's dvd, is that just one phase in 21 sessions or all three phases?


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Just protection. 

Leesa, I've to check my email. I believed I got it directly from Raiser but I am not sure.


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