# Questions about family safety with a German Shepherd



## germanshepherdontario (Jan 22, 2020)

Hi - for our first dog we were looking at a German Shepherd but instead got a Golden Retriever. 

1) We didn't get a GS because of my 7 year old son. He is all of 50 pounds and is a rough but loving kid -- he rolls around with the Golden Retriever, plays keep away and runs around the house with him. Sometimes he can be a little pesky to the dog and give him a friendly push here or there. The Retriever is super accommodating and loving in return. 

We now want a second dog and want a male GS. We have a major hesitation because of how my son naturally behaves. Frankly, we're a little concerned that if he did this to a GS, GS would get hostile to him and potentially hurt him because of this. Should we be concerned?

2) Also, sometimes our Retriever gets lonely and anxious when the alpha male (myself) is not around. Will getting a GS to keep him company help with the anxiety and make him less lonely?

Can someone please give us some advice or experience with either or both of the situations above?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

1) Can you not teach your son to behave differently? GSD's are different. And they will most likely play as rough as they get played with.

2) Getting a second dog to keep the first dog company and help with anxiety is never a good idea. And...that whole "alpha male" thing? That was debunked by the person who originally came up with the theory.


How old is the GR? If your family is happy with this dog, why get another when you have concerns with your young son and you have a dog that has anxiety when left alone?


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

I can give my experience so far in regards to your first point.

I have a rough and tumble seven year old autistic boy, which means he plays hard and can’t always read the signs that others give. Our working line GSD is almost six months old and they play together all the time. My pup is very aware of his body and teeth. He seems to instinctually know my kids are tiny humans he needs to be careful with. They run together, tug together, play keep away, two ball and finally, cuddle together. My pup is totally my boy’s best friend. Of course, that didn’t come without work. These dogs are called land sharks for a reason. But my pup has never gotten offended because of rough play with my son. I also notice a difference between how our pup plays with my seven year old boy and my five year old girl. He is very gentle with my five year old and will even lay down for tug with her and let her drag him around.

So short answer, yes. Totally possible. But make sure you go with a reputable breeder that will select the dog for your specific needs.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

Is your retriever a male or female? How old is it? How long a time is your retriever alone at home right now? Can you teach your son not to be so rough with the dog(s)? Don't get another dog because in your mind you've created this story that your existing one is "lonely." Just remember, GSDs are herding group dogs. Herding group dogs can work all day if necessary. Are you prepared to give it the time that it deserves? Having 2 dogs isn't going to drain their energy any easier. You're going to have to do a lot more work.


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

Second dog won't fix the first dog. Step 1 is to deal with the golden retriever's anxiety. Step 2 is to teach your son to be gentle with animals.
After those two things, then consider getting a second dog.


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## germanshepherdontario (Jan 22, 2020)

Thank you all so much. 

@Jax08 and tc68, yes, we are teaching our boy to be a little more gentle but he's not at all overly rough to start with - just full of enthusiasm and love for our existing dog who is a 1 year old male. 

@tc68, we take out retriever out for 40 - 60 minutes a day during a walk. Once or twice a week we go leash free in the park playing fetch four about 30 minutes. If we got a GS, we would do the same. Do you think that's enough? And there will be plenty of love around the house for both dogs  

@CeraDean, thank you so much for your detailed reply about your boy and your puppy - great story


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

No, it’s not enough.
I would not mess with a good thing, and just have the Golden.
GSDs need a LOT of exercise or else you will have a lot of problems. They need a lot less “love” and a lot more discipline, training, and exercise than what you stated you can provide.
In addition, your first dog is still a pup. It would be ideal to wait until the older one is at least 3 and fully trained before getting a second dog.
What kind of training are you doing with your Golden R?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Your dog is only 1 yr? I would not get another dog. I would instead focus on training and bonding with the dog you have. I like my dogs to be 4-6 years apart. Even 6-7 years for my next one. 

If you were to go with a showline, you might find a dog laid back enough to be ok with that little exercise but most shepherds need mental stimulation far above what you describe. Walking at our pace is not really exercise for a dog.

As far as needing less love? I'm not sure I understand that statement. Mine don't get to far from me. But they certainly need rules, mental stimulation and exercise. (And NO, this was NOT comfortable for me)


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

I agree to not getting a german shepherd. I have 2 scars from my loving, well behaved and trained german shepherd when he has accidentally snagged me with a tooth. The incidents were 4 years apart and both happened while playing with my dog. Also, raising a german shepherd for the first couple of years is like having a challenging, destructive, impulsive human toddler. It's a lot of work, and it takes a lot of patience and diligence. Have a look at some of the threads here on raising puppies. You really don't need a german shepherd puppy in your life right now.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

"sometimes he can be a little pesky to the dog." Your dog is still an animal. It can snap at any time. Your boy may pull on that tail one too many times and your dog may bite back. Generally speaking, a Golden Retriever is more tolerant than a GSD. Also Retrievers were bred to have a "soft" mouth. GSDs, not. On occasion I may play a little rough with my dog, and I know when he has had enough...he starts using his mouth hard.

Also, if you can't control your 7yo son right now (sorry, that's what it sounds like), how are you going to control a GSD? I'm not trying to be mean. These are serious things you need to think about. I think 1 dog is enough for your family right now. But if you're dead set on getting another dog...we advise that you don't get a GSD. Get an ankle biter. Or a coach potato dog. Not an active breed like a GSD. It's not the right 2nd dog for your family. A dog doesn't need another dog as a playmate....It needs you.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Anxiety is inversely proportional to exercise. What kind of exercise is this GR getting? Does your GR have a quiet, safe place to escape to when feeling anxious or pushed beyond its limits where NOBODY bothers him? Does he have a quiet out of the way place to eat his food and drink water?


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## Petra's Dad (Jan 6, 2020)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Anxiety is inversely proportional to exercise. What kind of exercise is this GR getting? Does your GR have a quiet, safe place to escape to when feeling anxious or pushed beyond its limits where NOBODY bothers him? Does he have a quiet out of the way place to eat his food and drink water?


OP mentioned exercises here:



germanshepherdontario said:


> Thank you all so much.
> 
> @Jax08 and tc68, yes, we are teaching our boy to be a little more gentle but he's not at all overly rough to start with - just full of enthusiasm and love for our existing dog who is a 1 year old male.
> 
> ...


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

If you do get another dog, wait until your son matures. He’s not ready for a German Shepherd. Also, consider a female rather than another male. My females have been much gentler with children and tended to be more family dogs, where the males bonded more with one family member.


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## VictorsMom (Dec 4, 2018)

I walk my gsd 3 miles a day on average. Then, in the evening, we play fetch in our fenced in yard for 20 - 30 minutes so that he can run (he’s a little under 2 yrs old). If this exercise doesn’t happen every day, he goes stir crazy, which then drives us crazy! I don’t think that’s unusual for this breed. Are you prepared for those exercise needs?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

At 1 year old don't assume your GR will continue to be overly tolerant to pesky behavior from a rambunctious child. GRs are not a non biting biting breed like a lot of people think. PLENTY of decent bites come from GRs and Labs.

Stop your son from being pesky. I have 2 disabled kids- an 11 year old with extreme hyper activity and moderate to severe autism and a non verbal 8 year old with CP and probably some autism also. They are not allowed to bother the dogs. Do they always listen? No, they have autism. If they are playing too rough I stop it, if they don't listen I do 2 to 5 minutes of something rewarding with the dog in question and crate him. Or I crate the kid (time out in his room).

Because I am only human and sometimes I am actually cooking and have my hands full, my 11 year year old learned organically that escalating the rough housing with a GSD puppy had a downside. That combined with the fact that I had my puppy's focus and trust that I wouldn't let him be overly annoyed by my flappy chappy panned out into a decent relationship between them.

My 8 year old? They are gentle with him right from jumpstreet. He has some mobility issues. They just seem to know. They mill around him and lick him and such. They don't "play" with him. He is capable pulling hair and tails, not even hard, but still. When I see him doing that he is sharply corrected and sent to time out.

You have to train the kids as much as the dogs. I would hold off on any 2nd dog for a number of reasons. Your current dog is somewhat young enough where you could risk some mild littermate syndrome unless you crate and rotate and understand what to look for and avoid (plenty of info if you google it). Also, wait until your current son understands not to pester dogs. If he can't learn yet for whatever reason, don't add another to the mix.

Kids his age should not rough and tumble with large dogs period. They don't know when it's too much and they aren't old enough to read a dog's avoidance signals when it has had enough. Once you get that message clear, then start researching a good breeding to add to your family.

You said :
" he rolls around with the Golden Retriever"
Rolling around and wrestling can go south quickly- I don't allow it with the kids or even between the two dogs in the house.

"plays keep away and runs around the house with him."
If he is keeping a toy away from the dog, the dog may feel teased. Is it back and forth? Or just your son running from the dog keeping a toy out of reach? I dont allow keep away. I teach kids to play fetch or other mutually gratifying games.

"Sometimes he can be a little pesky to the dog and give him a friendly push here or there."
No peskiness should be allowed and no pushing.

Look up relationship games with dogs. Find some appropriate bonding play they can be guided into instead of the horseplay. You have a Retriever- I'd start with fetch  Get Retrieving toys. They have a ton on Chewey.com.

Good luck OP.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

I have a Golden, a GSD pup (14 months), and an 11-year old daughter who plays rough. My advice: Don't get a GSD.

Jupiter, the GSD, is a good boy who's really calmed down and become quite tolerant of my daughter. She grabs him, sprays him with water, throws leaves at him, and chases him, and he takes it all with good humor. HOWEVER, it took a while to get to this point, and she's four years older than your son, and Jupiter has a nippy, bitey edge that no Golden I've owned has.

My Goldens were both extremely tolerant and as stereotypically gentle with children as any Disney movie. Kids can and did wrestle with them, pull their ears, pull their tails, hang on them, and they were incredibly tolerant. There is no way that Jupiter would allow that. He would most probably escape, but given that he has a large frame and is extremely strong, those kids might get bumped or knocked over and get hurt.

Jupiter also has the normal herding instincts, so he was quite nippy. There was an incident when he "attacked" my daughter, jumping on her and nipping over and over (this was when he was about 4 months, I think?). The behavior was never repeated and I'm still not quite sure what that was about. If he'd wanted to hurt her, I'm sure she would have gotten hurt.

Finally, GSDs are so strong and can be single-minded. Just a couple weeks ago, I made the mistake of playing frisbee with my 11-year old. Well, Jupiter loves the frisbee, and he decided to run after it and catch it in the air, totally ignoring the presence of my daughter. She caught it and then Jupiter jumped up and ran THROUGH her. 80 lbs of young GSD missile. I am so lucky that my daughter wasn't injured... it was stupid on my part of course.

Anyway, just sharing my experiences. Our GSD is one of the nicer ones I've seen, and I've socialized and trained him extensively, but I would still consider the breed significantly more dangerous than a Golden and would be cautious about bringing in a young one while you have a young and rambunctious son.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> As far as needing less love? I'm not sure I understand that statement. Mine don't get to far from me. But they certainly need rules, mental stimulation and exercise. (And NO, this was NOT comfortable for me)


I meant coddling the dog and giving it endless babying and affection without training and establishing boundaries.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I have to ask why you think it is OK for kids to treat dogs this way.
What you have described is a disaster waiting to happen.
Seriously injured kids, and dogs that are put down because respect for animals wasn’t taught.

Please consider changes in the way the children interact with the dogs, before something serious happens.

Have the kids feed them. Throw a ball. Teach them tricks. Establish a loving and respectful relationship with creatures who had no choice over being brought into the home in which they live.




CactusWren said:


> I have a Golden, a GSD pup (14 months), and an 11-year old daughter who plays rough. My advice: Don't get a GSD.
> 
> Jupiter, the GSD, is a good boy who's really calmed down and become quite tolerant of my daughter. She grabs him, sprays him with water, throws leaves at him, and chases him, and he takes it all with good humor. HOWEVER, it took a while to get to this point, and she's four years older than your son, and Jupiter has a nippy, bitey edge that no Golden I've owned has.
> 
> ...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sunflowers said:


> I meant coddling the dog and giving it endless babying and affection without training and establishing boundaries.


Well in all fairness - No dog should be babied, coddles and not trained. Regardless of breed.


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## crittersitter (Mar 31, 2011)

No, I would not add a GSD to the mix. And I would not get another male since you have one. GSDs need a lot of exercise. I would stick to another Golden or maybe a lab. Perhaps see if their's a rescue in your area that has either available that's assessed the dog and knows if it's a good family dog. Maybe one that's 3-4 years old and settled that's used to children.


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

Your son at seven years old, granted there isn’t any underlying issue, should be able to grasp what is and isn’t acceptable behavior to the dog. Many GSDs are not cuddly dogs either and are more hands off, but not all. Mine thinks he is a lap dog and we spoon in bed. GSDs can be challenging but I’ve found the opposite, their intelligence and willingness to please makes training easy from a young age. EVERY dog needs consistency. Drives and energy levels will differ based on lines and individual temperaments but in general GSDs need routine, daily exercise and enrichment. If there is a rainy day and I can’t let mine out to burn off steam then they drive me nuts with whining, pacing, and I can’t say I blame them. They’re bored! Smart, able dogs are not content to lay on a couch all day. I host treasure hunts where I hide bits of treats around the house and have them go sniff em out when stuck indoors. Mental wear works too! 

Even your Golden, even though he hasn’t yet, could react adversely and bite your son if he hurts him with his roughness. IMO GSDs are less forgiving and less likely to forget and overlook ill treatment by someone than other breeds. It’s best to wait til a dog is at least 2 before adding another, it has to do with littermate syndrome and young dogs bonding to each other rather than everyone. Opposite genders are also highly recommended as they are much more likely to get along. Having to rehome or spend years of the dogs life crating and rotating is a nightmare for all involved.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Sunflowers said:


> I have to ask why you think it is OK for kids to treat dogs this way.
> What you have described is a disaster waiting to happen.
> Seriously injured kids, and dogs that are put down because respect for animals wasn’t taught.
> 
> ...


I didn't endorse this behavior but used it to illustrate that Goldens are far more forgiving than GSDs. Please let's not derail this thread into your recommendations as how my family should behave. Consider your message received.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

My post is in line OP describing her son’s interaction with the family dog.

This is a dog forum, and we all express our opinions. Mine happens to be that any dog will bite if it decides it has had enough, however, big dogs are a bigger danger, and GSDs are in a league of their own. 

A dog shouldn’t have to be “forgiving.” It should be treated so that there’s nothing to forgive.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

My son is 14 I still remind him to stop teasing let them sleep. Respect for dogs cannot only be taught once to a child it has to be reminded repeatedly. So let’s not pretend it’s black and white. My son also was in your face enthusiastic fearless little boy who had be repeatedly told. Boundaries are a priority and a must especially with this breed and I believe of males in particular but kids are kids and they are not robots they are impulsive little human beings. Impulsiveness is something to be expected in young kids and young dogs alike. Some kids are more impulsive then others. It is so important to be real and know your dogs comfort levels. It is so important when you choose a dog with young kids you choose them carefully. Otherwise they will always need to be separated. My first gsd old and arthritic has to be separated when not supervised. he was in pain and old and I would not expect him to have the patience if someone fell on him. He reacted to quick. One time our kitten running down the hall way slid right into him he was still sleeping and flailed around hitting the kitten with his tooth accidentally making him bleed. He was a great dog but he was uncomfortable if his space was invaded as he slept as told from previous and owner and what I saw with the kitten. It was respected and I would not put him in that situation nor my kids who came after him. I choose to get a King Charles when my kids were toddlers as I not the energetic or the heart for a gsd. The shepherds we have now I had them since pups my kids 10 and 12 at the time. My kids are very hands with the dogs but in your face affectionate with the dogs. I made sure pups were well versed at getting a kiss or hug in the middle of their sleep. I made sure they were never bothered when eating and always swapped out anything with a bigger treat if taken away. I increased my knowledge with obedience and went out of my way to do different things with the dogs to keep their minds fresh and content. Interactions were structured. No chasing, no rough housing. As soon as bringing max home I bought agility equipment for Xmas and that is how they played teaching them tricks. He went to toy r us to shop during the awful winter. Ran down the private road at night pulling sleds as a young pup. My male can take some teasing from my teen son but it is not allowed. Max will get in the middle of anyone who gives me a hug with passive aggressively with kisses. If I sit on the couch and the kids sit next to me max will wAnt to squeeze in or sit on me. He gets reminded of his boundaries. I correct. I have a autistic nephew. I have young nephews that tries to prompt the dogs to chase them Luna is game she likes to follow them around- Boundaries rules always being reminded. It is why though I do really appreciate my dogs clear heads and their temperaments but that also is because boundaries, training and reminders in place. My kids actually wAnt German shepherds when they are out an in there own and I’m so happy about that. My daughter wants to be a veterinarian and my son a marine biologist - the right dogs can be powerfully motivating to kids and be inspiring.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Jenny720 said:


> My son is 14 I still remind him to stop teasing let them sleep. Respect for dogs cannot only be taught once to a child it has to be reminded repeatedly. So let’s not pretend it’s black and white. My son also was in your face enthusiastic fearless little boy who had be repeatedly told. Boundaries are a priority and a must especially with this breed and I believe of males in particular but kids are kids and they are not robots they are impulsive little human beings. Impulsiveness is something to be expected in young kids and young dogs alike. Some kids are more impulsive then others. It is so important to be real and know your dogs comfort levels. It is so important when you choose a dog with young kids you choose them carefully. Otherwise they will always need to be separated. My first gsd old and arthritic has to be separated when not supervised. he was in pain and old and I would not expect him to have the patience if someone fell on him. He reacted to quick. One time our kitten running down the hall way slid right into him he was still sleeping and flailed around hitting the kitten with his tooth accidentally making him bleed. He was a great dog but he was uncomfortable if his space was invaded as he slept as told from previous and owner and what I saw with the kitten. It was respected and I would not put him in that situation nor my kids who came after him. I choose to get a King Charles when my kids were toddlers as I not the energetic or the heart for a gsd. The shepherds we have now I had them since pups my kids 10 and 12 at the time. My kids are very hands with the dogs but in your face affectionate with the dogs. I made sure pups were well versed at getting a kiss or hug in the middle of their sleep. I made sure they were never bothered when eating and always swapped out anything with a bigger treat if taken away. I increased my knowledge with obedience and went out of my way to do different things with the dogs to keep their minds fresh and content. Interactions were structured. No chasing, no rough housing. As soon as bringing max home I bought agility equipment for Xmas and that is how they played teaching them tricks. He went to toy r us to shop during the awful winter. Ran down the private road at night pulling sleds as a young pup. My male can take some teasing from my teen son but it is not allowed. Max will get in the middle of anyone who gives me a hug with passive aggressively with kisses. If I sit on the couch and the kids sit next to me max will wAnt to squeeze in or sit on me. He gets reminded of his boundaries. I correct. I have a autistic nephew. I have young nephews that tries to prompt the dogs to chase them Luna is game she likes to follow them around- Boundaries rules always being reminded. It is why though I do really appreciate my dogs clear heads and their temperaments but that also is because boundaries, training and reminders in place. My kids actually wAnt German shepherds when they are out an in there own and I’m so happy about that. My daughter wants to be a veterinarian and my son a marine biologist - the right dogs can be powerfully motivating to kids and be inspiring.


It is black and white in my house. I had 5 dogs when I had my first child, followed by another child 18 months later. My children were 1. Never left unsupervised with the dogs and 2. Boundaries were taught to them when just toddlers. I do not tolerate man handling or rough housing with any of my dogs. My kids have never stepped out of line with the dogs. It is a parents responsibility to teach their children how to behave and to protect their dogs from inappropriate interaction regardless of what breed you have. 
If this is not possible, you’re not ready for any dog to be in your home.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

@Saphire Toddlers need supervision read my post. Kids need reminding. It is normal to remind kids what they need to do. Not sure what you are talking about manhandling and have no clue what goes on in your house. You sound like you need a glass of wine or some sugar.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Jenny720 said:


> @Saphire Toddlers need supervision read my post. Kids need reminding. It is normal to remind kids what they need to do. Not sure what you are talking about manhandling and have no clue what goes on in your house. You sound like you need a glass of wine or some sugar.





Jenny720 said:


> @Saphire Toddlers need supervision read my post. Kids need reminding. It is normal to remind kids what they need to do. Not sure what you are talking about manhandling and have no clue what goes on in your house. You sound like you need a glass of wine or some sugar.


You don’t choose a breed based on your inability to teach your kids appropriate behaviour. My children learned very quickly with how to treat animals and they were toddlers. Because they were not unsupervised with the dogs, I was able to correct them before they did something wrong, not after. At 14 yrs old, your son should be long past teasing and bugging your dogs.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

germanshepherdontario said:


> Sometimes he can be a little pesky to the dog and give him a friendly push here or there.


Whew. Forums can be a rough place. I quoted the OP’s description above. It may be that the definition of “pesky” varies from person to person. But I didn’t read this as meaning the OP’s child doesn’t respect dogs, just that he’s a rough and tumble boy.

@germanshepherdontario, I do agree with many of the others as far as adding a second dog. If the GR is only one year old, he probably needs more time before bringing home a second dog.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

@sapphire I choose all my dogs that I owned and own by lifestyle and time to give. You certainly are not capable of taking my superiority away as quality parent or pet owner because it just can not be done. Your own perception of teasing or maybe what you surround yourself is why your thinking of teasing is a lot heavier then mine I assume. It is inferior thinking that kids will never be reminded of rules. Toddlers need constant guidance and often repetition they learn through repetition. Toddlers fall and trip even if supervised and always careful as my dog was old and in pain. He may have not handled that well or expected to.


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

Folks, this is a discussion. Drop the personal jabs and the "shoulding" about parenting.

It never goes anywhere well. Ever.


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## debhib (Sep 24, 2018)

I can only speak from my own experience. My husband and I have owned four German Shepherds, three shelter-adopted and one purchased as a four month old puppy. Adopted first one in 1999. She passed away age 12 and we adopted our second in 2010. He passed away age 9 from cancer last year. We then purchased a four month old puppy (nightmare!) that was taken back to the breeder at seven months, and now have our fourth GSD whom we adopted from a shelter and have had for over a year. Our only child, a son, was born in 2003 and is now 16. He has never known a home without a GSD. These shelter adopted, no doubt back yard bred, fur babies have all been incredibly patient and amazingly intuitive in knowing how to deal with him. If you truly want a GSD for your home, not to keep your other dog company (our GSDs have always had only cats for siblings), but just because you want to add one of these beautiful animals to your family, then consider finding a GSD specific rescue and adopting an older dog in the 2-3 year age range. Trust me, puppies are an incredible amount of work. A reputable rescue will make sure the dog's temperament is a good fit for your family before adopting them to you and they will give you a trial period to live with the dog and see how it works out and will take it back if it doesn't. The dog will already be house-trained and many rescues will have worked on basic commands with the dog too. Also, my impression is that many people on this forum have working line GSDs. If you want a more laid back dog, go for showline GSDs. All mine have been very chill, except for the puppy that turned out to be working line. They are super energetic intense dogs. Don't go there! Whatever you decide, best of luck : )


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