# Prong size



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Just wondering. Right now I am using a medium HS for Beau - his neck is 19 inches right behind the ears but at 15 months I am sure his neck will thicken up a little over time as he is an intact male.

I can't get it as high as I would like. He does need a live ring correction at times - we are at the point where I am not using the collar to keep him from pulling but for breaking known commands.

I have the standard HS staniless collar though I may like to get one where the prongs reverse due to a plate in the middle if it really keeps it from moving around on the neck.

*Is there any difference in collar link size in regards to being able to give a good correction with a quick release. I have heard the small links may actually give a better correction and fit but they do seem flmsy given the lighter guage of the steel.*

Does the design with the flat plate in the middle actually work better at keeping the collar in place or make any other difference?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Prong sizing depends on what you are working with. If it's a dog with a thick coat, I use a larger size prong that can get all the way through thick or heavy coats. A correction is useless if it is attenuated by thick fur that prevents the prong from making contact. Also if it's a strong dog with a lot of strength, a bigger one is stronger and sturdier for them. For short coats or stock coats, a medium size should be fine. If they are too big or too small, you can't deliver an effective correction. For my large male with substantial coat around his head, I use 3.25 and got the 22in for him. I take links on and off depending on growth. 

I don't like quick release prongs. The old school ones suit my purpose just as well. The newer types seem gimmicky to me.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

This was not a QR prong. I agree I absolutely do NOT like them

This was this new style of prong (forget the black stuff I was just looking at design where the plate for attaching the prong is located so that the prongs reverse in direction. I do have the problem right now though where if I take out another link it is too tight.....but it slides down a bit they way I have it. I would rather get it higher on the neck to deliver a more effective correction.

Herm Sprenger Black plated, Stainless Steel pinch collar-Elite K-9

vs this style which is what I have.

Herm Sprenger Prong Collar

Beau is not going to have a very thick coat though he is starting to develop a bit of a mane (ruff)


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I like that Elitek9 one! I like that it is 3.2. Don't see why the plates should be a big issue. I have seen a couple people use that one. They seem to like it and can deliver a nice correction with it. 

I had a period where one link was the difference between too tight or too loose. I just waited it out till he grew bigger. It was on the tighter side for a period though. I only used it during 15min obedience sessions during that time though. He did not wear it for longer than that because I felt uncomfortable with the tightness of the collar so I tried to limit use during that period. Luckily his fat head grew quickly and I added a link


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I do wish they would make a set of plates of varying sizes so you could custom size the collar....that design would allow you to do it because of the way the prong connects. I would run out and buy it if they did that!

I have a second prong collar so maybe I have one set tighter than I would like for obedience sessions and one set 1 link looser for routine walking where I may give a reminder pop if needed.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I don't use prongs anymore but when I did my trainer said to use the small size, they said they use the 'small' on most breeds unless they are very large or have very thick neck fur and then they use medium. They said the smaller size gives better feedback and distribution and it's also easier to get a good fit. If the collar is too small you can just buy extra links.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My dogs have thicker coats and I use a heavier gauge prong. Karlo is 'in between' links....take one out and it is really tight, put one in and it is a bit loose and may creep down his neck. I tend to keep it tighter, but really don't like it that snug. It embeds in his coat. If I used the smaller links, he wouldn't feel it thru his coat.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I use a medium size prong on Smokey.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I tend to use the smaller HS prongs for both my dogs while training. 

I tend to fit them pretty snug and if I lift the coat while putting the prong on Stark (he has massive hair around his neck that is thick), I feel like it is a better fit. It doesn't do much good for the fur, but I figured the amount of time he actually wears it won't do too much damage.

For walks and such I tend to use the medium sized prong for him (all HS) and it is good, but like Karlo, he is in between links so one is too tight and the other too loose. I find the smaller linked prong fits better.

Zefra wears the smaller one all the time, but then again, she is 64lbs soaking wet.. lol.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Michael Ellis told us to use small. It gives better correction and you have more of them all the way around the neck. Even on my huge pit mastiff and the long hairs. 


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If it would work, then I would use the smaller one, but I've had it pop apart more than once. I do agree with the theory of more links= more 'bites'....but it doesn't always work well on those thicker necks. I only use the prong during protection and obedience, and using it during protection really works the collar!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have both a medium and a small. Jax's neck is only 15" so a medium actually has so many links taken out that only half her neck has links. So I started using a small. It fits better, gives a better correction. It does get caught in her hair occasionally.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I use the smallest prongs HS makes. They learn quickly to respect the small prong correction as it takes a dramatically lighter touch than the larger sizes.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think I use the 3.25mm or something like that? Not the "micro" but not the thick/fat links I see on Rottweilers and very large GSDs. Nikon's prong has 2-3 links removed, I think his new one has four links on each side (it's the newer HS prong with the little plate in the middle, so the prongs face both directions). I don't use the little micro prongs and more links because I think that would dull the correction, spreading it out over almost twice as many links. If I need to give a correction then I give the appropriate correction. If I needed more links to dull it then it's probably too harsh of a correction or tool in the first place.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I do have a micro with enough links so I will try it out and see. I also have some rubber tips someone gave me - I understand that amplifies?

I don't need to DULL anything I need to make it stronger and faster on the release and I think I may get a better release higher on the neck (at least I have been told to make it faster on the release though it is not like I jerk and tug). That one prong difference...(I really do wish these were more adjustable!)...

Despite the fact that I have spent much time with motivational training for out and I go back to it, it is the one place where he will endure a correction to hang onto the ball and it actually makes it harder to get him to release it. I can get an out easy if I have a toy to trade. And I can make him wait for the trade. (If I call "my ball" and it is on the ground he knows its mine)

My attempts at making a stronger correction have, according to K9 Handler (LE) helping actually started to put him into fight drive. I don't want to get into a situation where I get into a fight with my dog....and know that if I don't iron this out now that by 2 years I will have more of a handful.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

The smaller prongs are MUCH stronger corrections. Try and you'll see. Your corrections will be at far more effective

I've been told the rubber tips and pull and damage skin


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> My attempts at making a stronger correction have, according to K9 Handler (LE) helping actually started to put him into fight drive.


This is where an e-collar may come in handy. I know prongs do ramp up some dogs, and aren't always the best tool.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

onyx'girl said:


> This is where an e-collar may come in handy. I know prongs do ramp up some dogs, and aren't always the best tool.


My teammate is having to go that route with her dog. For now I am going to up our obedience with even more NILIF stuff. Thank goodness I don't have any "issues" with him - good nerve solid temperatment and he is overall obedient just a bit pushy at times. 

Not discounting the possibility but the less equipment I have to rely on the better; I would like to graduate away from the prong altogether and most ecollar folks I know of pretty much see it as a way of life.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> most ecollar folks I know of pretty much see it as a way of life.


I guess it depends on _what_ you use it for.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am not that versed in using one to make a good assessment. If I had to I would want some hands on instruction. I did use low stim very succesfully with a female who was insanely into game chasing. 

I am not opposed to them and actually have (somewhere) a Dogtra NCP...by "way of life" I *gather* most dogs wear them most the time and don't wean off of them. I could be wrong. I have not gone down that road far enough to know. I only have the prong on when we train and I have a reliable recall and drop on recall etc without it. 

At the advice of our some of the LE we have trained with, before he "gets" to do offlead scentwork (cadaver) we do a formal obedience session, then I remove the prong for the search work. Right now with us working together I am having to do some corrections on releasing the ball and on being distracted when other close by dogs are getting "their" reward play. He has passed his NAPWDA offlead obedience routine, not flashy but functional.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Well, I tried the small and was impressed. On correction outed the ball with no argument or growling and no corrections needed for subsequent outs and I was not heavy handed. 

It is apparently an off brand even though the prongs are rounded and seems a bit flimsy. The individual prongs are 1-1/8 inch long...so I think I am going to buy an HS since it is so much easier to hook with the metal plate.

I could snug it up more it rode higher on the neck and popped back after the correction (I think the tension on the chain) I am sold.

Now the different materials.......chrome steel vs stainless - any strength difference or do chrome just eventually rust? My current collars are years old and have no rust but I don't know what they are.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Chrome will usually rust after a while


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Also wanted to add, the smaller prongs seem like they may be more likely/easier to get pushed together which could result in them possibly opening up more easily. I used a quick-release collar so that I was not bending them to take the collar on/off so that it wasn't an issue (I had the collar fall off once before I switched to the quick release but never after.) Although I know some people say the quick release is not as secure I never had the quick release come apart. I always used a 'safety strap'/backup collar though if there was a chance that the collar coming apart could be a problem.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am def going to use a backup with this and get enough links to realize that they could be more prone to bend. But I am not doing bitework, so he won't intentionlly be all ramped up, and it seems I can get good results with a lighter correction.

I have had a QR come apart in the past. It seems to me that twisting and using the collar not like it was intended is where links are most likely to bend.


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## NDrugerGSD (Dec 10, 2012)

What is the appropriate age to start using a prong collar for walking? I have an 9 week old GSD and he already likes to take the lead. I don't want to have any negative effects with him. 


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

If you really take the time with it *NOW while he is young* you may not need it at all. But certainly I would completely avoid before a minimum 6 - 7 months. I am not going to try to repeat some of the very good avice on loose leash walking. ..there is probably already a sticky note on that. It helps to realize a walk is not to "go anywhere" at this age do don't get frutrated if all you do is go back and forth in a cul-de-sac.


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## NDrugerGSD (Dec 10, 2012)

Yea I have been going around the house right now. 


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