# The US Postal Service just declared war on my GSD



## NRA Instructor (Aug 28, 2013)

I need help.

I have my mailbox on the inside of my porch, beside the front door. 

When I got my GSD, my mailman was worried about her going through our bay window to get to him. He told me I either needed to install bars on my windows or move my mailbox to the end of my driveway, or they were going to stop delivering mail. I understood his concern and happily obliged. I want my dog to be safe, and of course the mailman to be safe.

Living in New England, where we get a lot of snow (plows destroy curbside mailboxes), I opted to install bars. I installed iron bars, which I built, welded, and installed myself. That was two years ago. The mailman was happy, and I thought that was the end of it. She makes a racket when he comes, and she likes to bang her paws against the bars and jump around, but they're iron bars, solidly installed. She can't get through them.

Well, we now have a new mailman, and today I got a letter from the postmaster saying that my dogs aggressive behavior "startles" the carrier, and they are concerned that one of these days, while delivering mail, the mailman will get "startled" by my dog, and he will trip and fall and hurt himself. So now they are ORDERING ME to move my mailbox to the end of my driveway.

So I called the guy and told him I wanted to file an appeal. I explained that I already installed iron bars at my own expense to ensure the mailmans safety, and that I refuse to install a mailbox at the end of my street at my own expense. If the mailman is surprised to find dogs on his route, and doesn't understand that dogs, especially GSDs protect their home, and that's what they're supposed to do, and that even though he understands the dog can't possibly get him, but is scared anyway, then maybe he needs therapy, or perhaps he has too delicate of a constitution to be a mailman. Perhaps he should seek a job in a flower shop, or a children's clothing store. (I was mad at this point)

Anyway, the guy said he would "escalate the appeal to his higher ups" and then I hung up on him. 

Can these people DO this to me? God, I did everything I could to make sure the dog couldn't get out and hurt him. All she can do is bark. Seriously, they're afraid he's going to get startled and trip and fall? Seriously? What a little girl.

If anyone else has gone through this, and has any advice, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

oh geez. Just move the mailbox and put it far enough back from the road so the plows don't destroy it like the rest of us that live where it snows have done.


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

Or train the dog to not go nuts at the window. 

But I do understand the frustration. 


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## NRA Instructor (Aug 28, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> oh geez. Just move the mailbox and put it far enough back from the road so the plows don't destroy it like the rest of us that live where it snows have done.


Hey thanks for absolutely nothing. :wild:


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## NRA Instructor (Aug 28, 2013)

Why should I have to move my **** mailbox? I've ensured the mailman's physical safety. I've already spent money. Why should I spend more? Because he gets "startled"? What's next? They want me to paint my house a different color because the next carrier doesn't like the color it already is?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I get your frustration. Have you tried talking to the actual mail person?

I would be ticked as well. That said. Not sure I would want to pick a battle with the post office. They can actually refuse to deliver mail to your entire street if they feel threatened. Would not want to be THAT neighbor. 

Not that it fixes this problem. But maybe get a PO Box. Problem solved. 


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

1. General Rules
You are not required to deliver mail when an animal
threatens you.


http://www.nalc.org/depart/cau/pdf/manuals/EL-814 (2006-Aug).pdf

Your dog going berserk every time your mailman is delivering your mail can and should definitely be considered a threat. I'd suggest you do what you can to make this current mailman safe if you want to keep getting your mail. 

If that doesn't work, just open a p.o. box and never have to worry about this again.


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## NRA Instructor (Aug 28, 2013)

Lucy Dog said:


> 1. General Rules
> You are not required to deliver mail when an animal
> threatens you.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's why I installed the bars. They admitted they aren't worried about my dog breaking out. They said its because her bark startles him, and he might trip and fall. Well, this opens the door to all kinds of problems. What if a little rock is in your walkway, and they decide that rock poses a threat, and they decide to stop delivering mail until the walkway is replaced? That's more of a threat than a barking dog secured behind iron bars, no? 

And how can he be startled by something he knows is coming? And even if I move my box to my driveway, he can still hear her bark, will he still get startled then? Maye fall out of his truck? What then? Do I move my box to the end of the street? Where does it end?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Move the mailbox AND..

Work on training. The barking and bouncing around is just creating frustration for your dog. It will save the curtains and/or blinds... and when you get a new postman or maybe even with the current one, they see the change in behavior - orders could be changed.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

NRA Instructor said:


> Hey thanks for absolutely nothing. :wild:



You are quite welcome. 

You asked 


> If anyone else has gone through this, and has any advice, I'd appreciate it.


 I answered. 

We have a dog that scared our mailman. My husband parked up the road and came down to bang on our door to see how she acted. DH said the mailman was smart to be scared. He used to leave packages in our vehicles if they were unlocked or on the porch. We now have a larger mailbox that most packages fit into.

I'm sorry it wasn't the response you wanted. Perhaps next time you can just list the responses you'll accept and save everyone some time. 

By all means...expend more energy having a fit about this and fighting the USPS than just moving the mailbox. It's your time, not mine.


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## kjdreyer (Feb 7, 2013)

Hey, children's clothing shops can be some pretty frightening places to work ! 

Large percentages of mail carriers have been attacked by dogs, so I think they're a little hypersensitive about the scary dogs in the yards and windows. One of my friends adopted a pit who goes absolutely ape____ when he even hears the postal truck. The post office had refused to deliver mail to his previous home even though the box was outside the fence. His previous owners did nothing to curb him, either, I think they liked it. Anyway, you probably don't want to tick off your mail carrier, they can be evil! (Mine folded a hardcover book _in half_ to stuff it in my mailbox _after_ I complained about my packages getting smashed!) So, if you want my advice, cave to the post office, and your dog might actually be relieved she doesn't have to chase that annoying invader away every day!


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## NRA Instructor (Aug 28, 2013)

I think my new mailman should just go see a doctor and get a prescription for two testicles.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dude, do you realize how obnoxious and rude you sound? I can pull an 80 pound bitch off another bitch one-handed while wielding a gate to get between them with the other hand, and without a single testicle. 

I can walk a dog without carrying any weapons, too. Isn't it funny how the _weaker sex_ seems to be able to handle dogs without lethal weapons? 

I actually think you need to man-up and put a box out at the road. Your bitch inside isn't in a good frame of mind while she is going nuts at the window. And you can reduce HER stress. The mail man might not like to see how he effects your bitch every day. 

Or does carrying testicles make it too difficult to walk your butt to the road to get your mail? I mean, I do because it is a country road, and that is how it is, but then I don't have those tiny appendages weighing me down.


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## Curtis (Jun 9, 2013)

I was a mail carrier for a couple of years. They will terminate your service if the carrier feels threatened. Bars or not. Then they will make you go to the post office to pick up your mail. Whatever is not picked up in 30 days is returned to sender. 

Does the mail man walk to every door, or deliver some mail at the street from his truck? 

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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

op, I feel for ya, been battling these usps clowns for a few years now, them not wanting to deliver the mail because the carrier might get startled?, thats a lame excuse, how can he or she be startled if he/she knows the dog is there?, if the carrier cant watch where they're going then he or she shouldn't be delivering the mail, you need to contact the regional postmaster

my latest episode here, gal pulls in the driveway blowing the horn, of course my dogs start barking more, i told her if she blows the horn they bark more, her response was, "I know that", I asked her nicely not to do that anymore

another one left a note in the mail box, she`s not delivering the mail cause, "theres dogs in the house barking and carrying on"

my new regular gal, she ok, but afraid of dogs, so i asked her, don't they have class`s on what to expect on dogs at the post office, she said yes, but she doesn't go

people wonder why the post office is going broke, its because a lot of the carriers simply do not want to do their jobs,

I have UPS, FEdx and DHL here almost every day, no problems with them, just the post office,

all i can say is keep calling and complaining until you are heard, your doing your job by keeping your dog contained, they can do their job by delivering the mail


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## NTexFoster (Jul 18, 2013)

I fail to see the downside here. All of my bills are done online. Amazon is delivered via ups and FedEx. Only thing usps delivers is junk mail.
However, I my mailman isn't a spineless slug. He and I talk frequently and he has met and made friends with my dogs.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I brought my dog up to the mailmans truck and she gave him kisses, now he has no reason to fear her and she would never attack him.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Put a mailbox by the road or, fight the post office and end up having to drive there every day to get your mail. Seems like an easy choice.


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## The Packman (Jan 31, 2011)

NRA Instructor said:


> I need help.
> If anyone else has gone through this, and has any advice, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks!


How old are you ? If your young and wanta fight with the Post Office ask the Post Master what the DDM says. (Domestic Mail Manuel)

Me personally...I'd just get a PO Box, in fact I already did. I have not had home delivery of my mail in 30 years. It is a lot safer and secure. 

BTW: I carried mail for a little while and it can be a very difficult J O B. That was 25 years ago and I'm sure things have got better for the carriers. Getting attacked by a K-9, having to p (and you have to leave your route to do so) or tripping on somebodies steps sounds like no big deal but it is when your out there.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Call their bluff. Kramer did it.


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## Guzzo (Aug 22, 2013)

selzer said:


> Dude, do you realize how obnoxious and rude you sound? I can pull an 80 pound bitch off another bitch one-handed while wielding a gate to get between them with the other hand, and without a single testicle.
> 
> I can walk a dog without carrying any weapons, too. Isn't it funny how the _weaker sex_ seems to be able to handle dogs without lethal weapons?
> 
> ...


Hey they aren't all tiny now!. Ha Ha love the sarcasm, I see both perspectives, lived all over, and it has never been a problem for me to get the mail on my country road. but ****, my mail comes to the door in my little town of 800 they all know i have dogs.

Either way depending on how long he/she has had the mail delievered to the door will answer the op....

A wise man once said; DON'T BE AFRAID OF CHANGE AS FOR THAT WILL BE COMPLACENT, And COMPLACENT LEADS TO... Something or another lol i tried.


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## Guzzo (Aug 22, 2013)

Lucy Dog said:


> Call their bluff. Kramer did it.
> 
> I'd like to cancel my mail - YouTube


HAHA HA HA!!
Priceless


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Guzzo said:


> Hey they aren't all tiny now!. Ha Ha love the sarcasm, I see both perspectives, lived all over, and it has never been a problem for me to get the mail on my country road. but ****, my mail comes to the door in my little town of 800 they all know i have dogs.
> 
> Either way depending on how long he/she has had the mail delievered to the door will answer the op....
> 
> A wise man once said; DON'T BE AFRAID OF CHANGE AS FOR THAT WILL BE COMPLACENT, And COMPLACENT LEADS TO... Something or another lol i tried.


Yeah, but guys that have to talk about them....


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

selzer said:


> Dude, do you realize how obnoxious and rude you sound?


No kidding, sounds like someone has major PMS problems, eh?


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## kelseycub (Aug 1, 2013)

LOL this is ridiculous. I would just move the mail box and be done with it, or section off your dog so she cant be in the room near the front door. People are stupid, goodluck.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mrs.K said:


> No kidding, sounds like someone has major PMS problems, eh?


OMG, you're right! I am a male-chauvinist pig. I must have thought that the welding the bars suggested it was a fellow. No, not so, it was the welding of the bars over a bay window in a house. A fella might be able to weld the bars, but no gal would mess up her living room with ugly iron bars over a bay window. So I assumed it was a guy. 

A gal with PMS? Yeah, that is possible.


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## Guzzo (Aug 22, 2013)

selzer said:


> OMG, you're right! I am a male-chauvinist pig. I must have thought that the welding the bars suggested it was a fellow. No, not so, it was the welding of the bars over a bay window in a house. A fella might be able to weld the bars, but no gal would mess up her living room with ugly iron bars over a bay window. So I assumed it was a guy.
> 
> A gal with PMS? Yeah, that is possible.


True that, **** I am A guy, And i wouldnt even do that. I would invest into training my dog or sectioning off first.


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## Guzzo (Aug 22, 2013)

selzer said:


> Yeah, but guys that have to talk about them....


Hey now, No one said I was talking myself up now..

Just saying!!!!!
haha


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Guzzo said:


> Hey now, No one said I was talking myself up now..
> 
> Just saying!!!!!
> haha


See women just don't do this. I mean, when a gal doesn't act particularly girly, we just figure, less competition, fine. We do not say, she needs to grow a bust. We are often given the label of insecurity and so much more, but guys are constantly ragging on other guys' guy-parts. Conclusion, guys must be really insecure.


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## Guzzo (Aug 22, 2013)

selzer said:


> See women just don't do this. I mean, when a gal doesn't act particularly girly, we just figure, less competition, fine. We do not say, she needs to grow a bust. We are often given the label of insecurity and so much more, but guys are constantly ragging on other guys' guy-parts. Conclusion, guys must be really insecure.


Oh ****, I hear that girly crap on Facebook so much. Darn near going to delete it.

In general, men do have some insecurities. 

Me personally, I could give two craps.

But some women do play the gossip. 

I think you are born with what ya got.

And I am sexy and i know it!!! lol, Ah ****... Got work tomorrow gotta have a good time tonight!!


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

So, your dog was going so insane that the mailman thought she was going to *go through a bay window* and you *agreed* and put bars up to ensure the mailman's safety. I think you're screwed. You've already admitted (by putting up bars) that the dog is out of control enough to go through a bay window...the postal service knows this (you told them). So, if I were the postal service I would have every reason to think you own an out-of-control dog, that could easily make someone feel threatened. I wouldn't be scared of the dog startling me and falling....what I would be afraid is that one day I show up and the out of control dog isn't behind the bars....ya know, it happens.

I think at this point you've kind of admitted the out-of-control (threatening) behavior that the dog exhibits....not only to us, but to the postal service. So, it's kind of their call. Imo.

Two options, train the dog not to go nuts, or move the mailbox. Otherwise I don't think you are going to have a say for much longer.

And for what it's worth (not directed at OP). I think it's ridiculous when dogs go "insane" when someone approaches the front door. Noticeably observant, curious, watchful....maybe even a low, alert, bark? Sure....but I can't stand people that expect and encourage their dogs to go ape **** when someone (*obviously non-threatening*) is at the front door. My dogs are allowed a bark. Usually it's not even that, just obviously attentive and aware. And since they are always around me, I notice when they go over to the door and just by looking, show me someone is there. It's my job to access the situation and allow someone into the home. As long as it's a neutral situation, my dogs are to remain neutral. Someone approaching the home to deliver mail is a neutral, and expected, situation. No reason for my dogs to go bat **** crazy. 

That being said, it is your property and your dog. So if you want the dog to act like that, by all means. Just don't expect anyone to put themselves in a situation that involves that behavior. Sure, your last mailman was okay with it. In my opinion that was a nice thing, but would not, and should not imo, be expected.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

This conversation is absolutely ridiculous. The mailman might get frightened and fall? That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard. What is he-80 years old? That being said, it's no use fighting the Federal government. They always win. I'd spend the money and move the mailbox.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Can you switch to one of those community mail boxes?

No normal person would be so startled that they'd injure themselves from a dog barking, especially not a postal worker who is likely very used to dogs barking at every other house. It is essentially just a noise complaint on their part. Have you tried contacting the higher ups and telling them that you are being refused service over noise?

But I think even if you get this sorted out with the post office, you should fix the reaction of your dog. A dog hurling itself at the window and essentially losing all control over the regular occurrence of a mail person that it should know by now is no threat is probably pretty stressful to the dog. You should teach your dog to know the difference between someone who is allowed on the property and someone who isn't.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

I dont understand why everyone is giving the op so much grief! Seriously their workers might fall and that is our duty to avoid? Moving a mail box is time and money. And if you don't know how to do it you have to hire someone. That's even MORE Money! I mean just going out on a limb but for post, box, supplies, time, I'm guessing moving a mail box to the curb isnt 20 $? They push everyone around because people just take it. Dont give in. Better yet make them pay and install it.

Our mailman was so lazy he would drive up on the curb to avoid leaving his truck. He hit and knocked down our front fence! WE had to pay over 500 $ to have the front section installed and replaced!

My dogs get up and bark in the bay window by the door no matter who crosses the side walk, and I LIKE it. Why? Because one night some young punks cut the lock on our shed that contained a limited edition 100th anniversary harley davidson gas tank and fenders my dad was working on. Zeke heard this and alerted us by barking at the window. Had it not been for this behavior these items thay cant easily or cheaply be replaced would of been lost. I tell them to leave it and they lay down. nothing wrong with that in my books!

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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Anubis_Star said:


> I dont understand why everyone is giving the op so much grief! Seriously their workers might fall and that is our duty to avoid? Moving a mail box is time and money. And if you don't know how to do it you have to hire someone. That's even MORE Money! I mean just going out on a limb but for post, box, supplies, time, I'm guessing moving a mail box to the curb isnt 20 $? They push everyone around because people just take it. Dont give in. Better yet make them pay and install it.
> 
> Our mailman was so lazy he would drive up on the curb to avoid leaving his truck. He hit and knocked down our front fence! WE had to pay over 500 $ to have the front section installed and replaced!
> 
> ...


I guess I am talking about a completely different situation. In your case, it was night time, it was most definitely *not* a neutral situation, and your dogs barked. OP's dog was slaming against the window to the point that the *mailman* (a completely neutral and expected visitor) *and OP* agreed that the dog might *go through the window.* That is completely different than your dog giving an alert bark to someone being around that you are unaware of.....*and* you can call your dog off. I am under the impression (and could be wrong) that OP's dog couldn't be called off the window with a verbal command....maybe I'm wrong.

I do agree that the "he may fall" argument is a bit ridiculous. But as pointed out by a previous post, all the rule states is that the postal guy needs to "feel threatened".....a dog that was so crazy that *metal bars* had to be placed on the window, isn't what I consider "only alerting" or "non-threatening." Like I said, it's OP's dog and property, he can do whatever he wants....but expecting someone to be in a situation with that happening...imo, is equally ridiculous....the guy is just trying to do his job....get your mail to you. I don't think he should be scared to do that. There are some cultures that are terrified of dogs, any dog....add to that a snarling, charging, barking, growling, big dog behind bars....yeah...the best way to deal with it is to tell the postal worker to "grow a pair of testicles." ......give me a break...fears are relative....OP, you could have fears that would make me say "grow a pair" and I bet that wouldn't change your fear.......


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Maybe you can stake a plastic tub to the end of the lawn and write "mailbox" on the top of it with a sharpie. Put a pinwheel by it so the mailman sees it. 
Cheap, problem solved.


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

My parents have had their share of ridiculous mailman complaints. Their current mailman keeps trying to get mail delivery cut to their house because he is afraid of the collie which remains in the house all day, the mailbox is at the curb and there is 75+ foot of driveway between the house and the curb. They have received warnings from the postal service regarding their "vicious dog". Doesn't matter how high up the ladder you appeal an incident, the managers and bosses support the carriers 100% even when the carrier is in the wrong. Be careful about making the carrier mad. My parents' carrier will leave packages at the curb and when it rains, he puts the packages in a bag, but leaves the bag open so all the rain collects in the bag. He also will refuse to deliver packages that are "too heavy", his latest being a dress which my mother ordered online. 

Not all carriers are bad, my carrier is amazing. She delivers packages to the door, talks to the dogs, and if I'm outside with the dogs, she'll visit with them. I wouldn't trade her for the world.

Long story short, it doesn't matter how ridiculous you feel the mailman's complaints are. If the mailman feels threatened they will cut service to your house without a second thought. You can fight and appeal their decision, all the way up to the postmaster in charge of your state and 99% of the time they will side with the carrier. As stupid and pointless as it may be, you are going to have to move your mailbox. USPS doesn't make idle threats. You could try stalling and appealing until you receive a new carrier, but chances are the new mailman will follow in the previous one's footsteps and complain. Why walk down a driveway when you can complain and force a homeowner to move the mailbox.


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## wdkiser (May 7, 2013)

NRA Instructor said:


> I think my new mailman should just go see a doctor and get a prescription for two testicles.


Funniest thing I have ever read on this forum!! :laugh:


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## Okin (Feb 27, 2013)

If they know there is a dog there that is about to bark at them then how are they startled?


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Maybe they are afraid that one day while the mailman is delivering the mail, someone could open the front door to leave and your dog fly out the door and go after him. If I was the mailman, that would be my main concern. Are you not worried that could happen? I would.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

There are several NEWER members on this board and some of the posts are in violation of the board rules which I suggest everyone review. This thread has the potential to really go downhill; it is already pretty much there. 

These rules include pseudo-swearing and rudeness to other members.

They are posted as the first post in each forum section.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

That sucks... My UPS guy has no issue even when my dogs are out and my male is in a down and growling at him.

Personally, I never discourage my dogs showing aggression at my door to strangers... Part of their job around here actually


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Meet with your mail carrier. Have him MEET your dog. Give him a handful of treats to give your dog under your supervision and let them get to know one another. See if the two of you can work out an agreement of some kind in terms of your mail. You already put bars up. Moving your box to the street could end up being more expensive in the long run and the bars on a bay window is already tacky but you obliged. They know there is a dog on the property so if they're that easily startled, they may want to consider a different occupation.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Just remember, there are always two sides to every story. We have heard the OP's side, now I wonder what exactly the truth is? Maybe the dog has gotten out before, maybe the carrier has the right to be afraid.
What was posted was what the OP wanted to post. Maybe things were "left out", maybe not, but seems extreme for even the Post Office. 
Of course, the simple solution if you want your "junk mail" to be delivered would be move the mailbox, if it truly is junk mail only that is delivered, then what the heck, let the post office keep it.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Sue! 

:spittingcoffee::rofl:

in blue>...and provide a pithy, witty AND logical response to the question to boot!  






selzer said:


> Dude, do you realize how obnoxious and rude you sound? I can pull an 80 pound bitch off another bitch one-handed while wielding a gate to get between them with the other hand, and without a single testicle.
> 
> I can walk a dog without carrying any weapons, too. Isn't it funny how the _weaker sex_ seems to be able to handle dogs without lethal weapons?
> 
> ...


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

wyominggrandma said:


> but seems extreme for even the Post Office.


I doubt it, as I have been dealing with a similar situation for the last 6 years


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I really don't know what everyones issue is with him putting the mailbox further away from the house. My dogs won't do a peep when the mailwoman comes. They won't alert at all because she is NOT A THREAT even though they can hear and see her!

She's coming back every day, same time. She met some of the dogs when I was out working them and she loves them. Not even my crazy little obnoxious Malinois will bark when she is coming to bring the mail. 

Nobody has an issue to leave the packages in front of the door either, if we have one. 

And you know what's the trick? Being a mailman/woman is a thankless job because they have to deal with obnoxious people. Be nice to them. Smile at them and say Hi or even wave when you see them. 

They have to deal with hundreds and hundreds of people that are obnoxious and won't give in because it's "their property and they shouldn't have to move that mailbox."

What the heck is so hard about moving a mailbox? It's a matter of 10-20 minutes, IF at all!

Just do it already!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm wondering since the post office is trying to do more, with less these days if it isn't more efficient, time saving and frankly safer overall for them to have the box at the street anyhow?

Much ado about nothing, just move the mailbox and be done with it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Much ado about nothing, just move the mailbox and be done with it.


Exactly!!!!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

This thread has sort of run its course and gotten beyond ridiculous. Many good suggestions for the OP. 

Closed.

ADMIN Lisa


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