# Colors?



## Lisha_Rose (May 15, 2012)

Hello all! I have a few questions that I'm sure have been asked hundreds of times...I can obviously tell that most of my litter is black and tan. I had a few people ask me if they were bi-color but I was told that they aren't bi-color if they have tan on their cheeks...correct? Also, some of them have some silver hairs throughout their tan on their feet and legs and shoulders. Would that still classify them as black and tan? Please no bashing for my lack of color knowledge, I have a solid black GSD so there was no question there


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

such cute little babies Ok , no expert here, but I had a bicolor, a very very dark bicolor, I believe they called him a melanistic bi..(all black except the very very lower part of legs/tar toes.

Most gsd's are born this^ dark, unless they are all black (or white), color is going to change ALOT..Just from your pictures, and again no expert, I'll guess, that #1 may be bi's, #3, #5? 

IF I remember correctly, I "think" I was told once that if they are have a 'brown fur colored ring' around their anus, that could indicate bi?? I could be totally off base with that one,,LOL

I think by about 4 weeks you'll get a better indication of who is bi and who isn't. 

White hairs, if they are sparse, usually disappear..

Don't take my word as gospel, except that they are all stinken CUTE!


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## Lisha_Rose (May 15, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> such cute little babies Ok , no expert here, but I had a bicolor, a very very dark bicolor, I believe they called him a melanistic bi..(all black except the very very lower part of legs/tar toes.
> 
> Most gsd's are born this^ dark, unless they are all black (or white), color is going to change ALOT..Just from your pictures, and again no expert, I'll guess, that #1 may be bi's, #3, #5?
> 
> ...


All of them have tan under their tail right by their anus. And thanks, I think they are cute too!! I just wasn't sure if they were bi-colors because neither parents are...but both have bi-colors in their history. Thanks again!!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well if it helps, my bicolor was the product of a black/tan dam and very dark sable who carried the black gene. So the litter produced sables/black & tans and bicolors..

Like I said I think you'll be able to tell more when they get a tad older..have fun with all those cuties!


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

From what I recall, bicolors are born just about solid black, as are the blacks. The way you tell that a black pup is actually a bicolor is the tan vent. They get more tan/brown markings as they get older. Whereas what people around here call a "traditional" saddle back are born with markings kind of like a rottie or dobe, which looks like a bicolor at that moment, but will mature into a black/red or black/tan or a melanistic blk/tan (what is called a blanket back, which is also not a bicolor). 
This is my bicolor girl at about a week old. The brown was just showing up on her legs, up until this showed up she looked solid black unless you peeked under the tail 










At 9 weeks









12 weeks









6mos with her solid black older brother









And at about 10mos


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

These pups look like they are all black and tans. 

What color are the parents?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Depending on the color of the parents, the pups in picture 1 and picture 5 are the only ones that could possibly be BI's. The rest are most definitely b/t.


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## Lisha_Rose (May 15, 2012)

BlackthornGSD said:


> These pups look like they are all black and tans.
> 
> What color are the parents?


The dam is solid black and the sire is black and red. I was thinking they were black and tans but the more I researched bi-color the more confused I got


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## Lisha_Rose (May 15, 2012)

lhczth said:


> Depending on the color of the parents, the pups in picture 1 and picture 5 are the only ones that could possibly be BI's. The rest are most definitely b/t.


When you say picture 1...do you mean the pup on the top or bottom?


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## Lisha_Rose (May 15, 2012)

bocron said:


> From what I recall, bicolors are born just about solid black, as are the blacks. The way you tell that a black pup is actually a bicolor is the tan vent. They get more tan/brown markings as they get older. Whereas what people around here call a "traditional" saddle back are born with markings kind of like a rottie or dobe, which looks like a bicolor at that moment, but will mature into a black/red or black/tan or a melanistic blk/tan (what is called a blanket back, which is also not a bicolor).
> This is my bicolor girl at about a week old. The brown was just showing up on her legs, up until this showed up she looked solid black unless you peeked under the tail


I'm ASSuming by "vent" you mean anus...correct? They all have very prominent tan around there...


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Lisha_Rose said:


> The dam is solid black and the sire is black and red. I was thinking they were black and tans but the more I researched bi-color the more confused I got


Well, every puppy is going to have the black recessive, then. But unless the black/red parent carries for the bicolor patter, it's unlikely you'll get bicolors. Do you have pictures of the parents?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Agree with Christine. Will depend on the genetics of that black/red parent. 

It is not unusual for BI puppies to have a VERY small amount of coloring on their legs and maybe a tiny bit on their cheeks when born. In my litters the color had a slight grayish tint to it compared to the b/t puppies.


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## Lisha_Rose (May 15, 2012)

lhczth said:


> Agree with Christine. Will depend on the genetics of that black/red parent.
> 
> It is not unusual for BI puppies to have a VERY small amount of coloring on their legs and maybe a tiny bit on their cheeks when born. In my litters the color had a slight grayish tint to it compared to the b/t puppies.


Some of these pups do have a gray tint...I called it silver in an earlier post.


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## Lisha_Rose (May 15, 2012)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Well, every puppy is going to have the black recessive, then. But unless the black/red parent carries for the bicolor patter, it's unlikely you'll get bicolors. Do you have pictures of the parents?


The dam is my avatar. And this is the father....he is black and red, the red is more pronounced in person


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I don't think you'll have any pattern bicolors, then--should have a number of "blanket back" black/tans(reds). 

Depending on the actual genetics behind the bicolor pattern (some current researchers say it's a modifier to the tanpoint allele (which maybe the black dog could carry but you wouldn't be able to tell) and not an allele of its own on the agouti locus), though, it's theoretically possible that the black dog could pass on the correct masking/melanism genes to create bicolors--but so far, I've never seen it work that way.


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## Lisha_Rose (May 15, 2012)

BlackthornGSD said:


> I don't think you'll have any pattern bicolors, then--should have a number of "blanket back" black/tans(reds).
> 
> Depending on the actual genetics behind the bicolor pattern (some current researchers say it's a modifier to the tanpoint allele (which maybe the black dog could carry but you wouldn't be able to tell) and not an allele of its own on the agouti locus), though, it's theoretically possible that the black dog could pass on the correct masking/melanism genes to create bicolors--but so far, I've never seen it work that way.


Thanks. I don't care what color they are...I love them either way. I just want to be able to tell the new owners and want to know what to fill out on their AKC forms.


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