# What have I done? Did I make a mistake?



## Honeybee1999 (Mar 2, 2006)

I will try to make this as brief as I can. Last week our 10 year old female was diagnosed with either hemangiosarcoma or histiocytic sarcoma. Her spleen and liver are full of tumors, and they have spread to her lungs. She only has a short time left (a week or so was what her vet said). Until this, she has always been very healthy. 

I naturally started researching and found the dog cancer blog by Dr. Dressler (sp?). In his blog he talks about how he believes processed pet foods are a major contributor to cancer. I was convinced once I realized humans are healthiest on an unprocessed diet so why wouldn't canines be the same? So I am following his diet recommendation for dogs with cancer (cooked, due to compromised immune system).

That leaves my almost 8-month-old male, Ruger. Obviously I want to feed him as healthy as possible, and since he is not immune compromised I planned to start him on a raw diet. Everything I read said to go cold turkey since kibble and raw are not a good combo. The majority of what I read also said to start with a chicken RMB. So that's what I did last night. I gave Ruger two chicken thighs. I held onto them while he ate to make sure he chewed and crunched up the bones. All seemed well. He loved the chicken and ate every last scrap. 

Today he has major diarrhea. Like nearly liquid poo. Not just soft. Tonight he also vomited white mucus twice. This morning he got a meal of cooked chicken and rice and a little canned pumpkin after I saw the diarrhea. After he vomited tonight I decided to fast him until tomorrow morning.

I am feeling terrible that I have caused him to get sick. Did I do something wrong? I read that some dogs can get pudding poop when switching over, but I wasn't expecting liquid poop. And the vomiting really has me concerned.

What should I do at this point? Cooked chicken and rice until he is back to normal? Keep going with the chicken thighs? Something else?

He is acting pretty normal (a little less energetic than his usual crazy self). I don't want him to get worse, though. And really don't want to have to clean up dog diarrhea from my floors in the middle of the night.

Thanks for any help you can give.

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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

A couple of mine had liquid poop and bile like vomit. It lasted about a week and after their systems adjusted they were fine. You can take the skin off the chicken and see if that helps. Sometimes the skin can be an issue.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Whenever you switch food they get liquid poop. What I want to know is are we supposed to feed them bones as well? A friend of mines had a dog who needed surgery because of a blockage from swallowing a bone. Also raw chicken has salmonella, are we all sure this is safe?


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Julian G said:


> Whenever you switch food they get liquid poop. What I want to know is are we supposed to feed them bones as well? A friend of mines had a dog who needed surgery because of a blockage from swallowing a bone. Also raw chicken has salmonella, are we all sure this is safe?


I've never had a dog get loose stool from a simple food change. IME we train our dog's digestive systems to be sensitive by not offering enough variety.

Was it a cooked bone? Raw bones are an essential part of a raw diet. The dogs would suffer severe nutritional deficiencies without a source of calcium and other minerals.

There are thousands of microorganisms on raw chicken. Well over a dozen commonly found that can cause food borne illness. Salmonella isn't even the most common. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP'S dog picked up a mild campylobacter infection causing the loose stool. However, once adjusted to raw meat, a dogs digestive system is acidic enough to be unhospitable to the bad microorganisms.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I feed half kibble, half raw, or sometimes all raw or all kibble, it can vary and so does the kibble. I feed them lots of people food too, they love Arby's and MacDonald's.

I never have a problem switching foods.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Julian G said:


> Whenever you switch food they get liquid poop. What I want to know is are we supposed to feed them bones as well? A friend of mines had a dog who needed surgery because of a blockage from swallowing a bone. Also raw chicken has salmonella, are we all sure this is safe?


I spent over $1000 one time when I switched flavors with in the same brand with my golden. I still think something wasn't right with the new food, can't prove it. 

I notice a change of poop whenever I change or add something(beef in general seems to be an issue)

Apollo sat at the vet for a day for observation because he was blocked by a bone and they were just waiting to see if he would pass it. It was a piece from a beef bone and not a huge piece either(no more of them allowed in the house). A few of the dogs got sick on those darn bones, but I focused on Apollo because he had liquid poop and threw up undigested food.

We have never had a problem with chicken bones or chicken. I do take most of the skin off, a couple get gas if they have the skin. I have 7 dogs, ever try to figure out who has gas with multiple dogs? Gas x strips for all:smile2:


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Nutrition | The SkeptVet

I go here for information about food choices. 
I personally think that when you switch things up start small. My dogs eat a variety of things, including a decent kibble, with each meal. It can lead them to being picky but so far, pooh has been healthy.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

car2ner said:


> Nutrition | The SkeptVet



No offense to you at all car2ner.....we all have our "go to" reading favorites, but if I would have listened to that guy, my 1st GSD would have been dead a lot sooner!

My dog was near death, conventional vets said they could do nothing else and my dog would most likely die. 
Years ago, I had a long illness and saw several specialists with no results. I decided to go "outside the box" and and try Homeopathy and was cured not once but twice! So I thought....why not my dog?

The regime for my dog was Raw Feeding, Homeopathic's, Supplements, Chiropractics, and Acupuncture and my 2 year old GSD, who was at death's door, lived until 1 month short of her 12th birthday! So for me, it's in the proof and success of the alternative's, not a "study" that has been done. The success of "holistic" type treatments are many, and when you are at the brink of no return, you'll try anything.

I've been feeding raw for over 20 years now.....Maltese, a 5 pound IG, and 6 GSD's. Did some of them ever have loose stool? You betcha! 
But as llombardo has said, you work with the animal in front of you.....no 2 are the same. Just as people are different.....so are dogs! What one can eat, the other can't!

Starting raw feeding for a dog who has been on processed kibble his whole life would be like a human eating a Big Mac and Fries for his 3 meals and then one day deciding to eat fresh GREEN salad! 
Not a good OUT-come...if you know what I mean! LOL 

I'm glad the OP is "holding" the RAW (not cooked) bones as the 8 month old figures out how to eat it. The chicken fat and skin seem to be too much for many dog's guts beginning on raw. After getting regulated on the raw, start adding small amounts of the skin and fat, and build his gut up to it. There are many nutrients in the skin.

You may want to consider a commercially made BALANCED raw diet where the bone is ground up.

Honeybee: Chicken & Rice is fine to stop the diarrhea or even his previous kibble (soaked in water) can be used. Then you can begin to add small amounts of raw to it (no skin and fat for now until he's regulated). Reduce the chicken/rice and add more raw as you see his gut is handling it better. 

NOTE: Proceed VERY slowly and in small amounts when you begin to add the organs since his gut did a tail spin with the beginning of raw.

BTW Honeybee....I'm very sorry to hear about your female's diagnosis. 
Moms


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Dark meat chicken, especially the thighs, are quite high in fat. I would remove some of the fat and skin, maybe even add in a wing instead (higher bone content) and see if that helps. I have had a couple of dogs I changed over that did best starting on ground food and adding in unground parts over time.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Chicken leg quarters I can usually get super cheap (.37/lb on sale..often) so I started with them. However, for the first month or so, I still removed the skin and most of the excess fat that I saw. Now I just give him the whole thing and he has no issues, but it can definitely affect them if they get too much fat that they're not used to.


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## Honeybee1999 (Mar 2, 2006)

Ok when the rocket butt stops I will try again with removing the fat first. Or I might start with chicken breast and just cook it a little less every day until he is eating it raw. I have calcium citrate for my female that I can give him until he starts on bones so that his ca ratio is balanced. I worry about that too, since he is still growing.

Thanks for the help everyone. I hate it when my babies are sick. I feel like a failure as a furmommy.

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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Honeybee1999 said:


> Ok when the rocket butt stops I will try again with removing the fat first. Or I might start with chicken breast and just cook it a little less every day until he is eating it raw. I have calcium citrate for my female that I can give him until he starts on bones so that his ca ratio is balanced. I worry about that too, since he is still growing.
> 
> Thanks for the help everyone. I hate it when my babies are sick. I feel like a failure as a furmommy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Remove fat AND skin, then introduce slowly. 

You should be using BONE MEAL that contains proper Calcium/Phos ratio instead of the calcium citrate, if you are not feeding raw bone.

"Because growing puppies need more phosphorus than adult dogs, bone meal is the best source of calcium for them. Bone meal contains phosphorus in addition to calcium. Each brand of bone meal will provide a different amount of calcium per teaspoon. Check the produce label before using." dogaware.com

This is the one I use: NOW Bone Meal: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MGR1J0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 
"NOW" Dosage for a PUPPY up to 10 months old is: 1 & 1/2 teaspoons per pound of food (without bone in it). Other brands differ in dosage's. 

Moms


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

I know you will all smack me when I say that I feed Titan human food and dog food. For example, over Thanksgiving I fixed him a plate of what we were eating (minus any chocolates that were served), and the same went for the forth of July. And to really get one of your goats, every Friday -- Titan and I usually go out for a burger and fries. I usually order him a hamburger without the cheese, pickles, and onions. Other than that, I seldom see any liquid poop; unless he eats a lot like he did on the 4th of July. From reading posts on this site, I have noticed that GSD have a life expectancy of 10 years -- no more than 15, so if that's the case Titan will have a great life AND he'll go out with a smile AND yes he does see his vet when a problem arise.


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## Honeybee1999 (Mar 2, 2006)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Remove fat AND skin, then introduce slowly.
> 
> You should be using BONE MEAL that contains proper Calcium/Phos ratio instead of the calcium citrate, if you are not feeding raw bone.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the great info! I will order some of that bone meal for Ruger. I was actually looking at that on Amazon and had it in my cart a few days ago.

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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Kibble is not the equivalent of eating a big mac and fries and soda day in and day out. That is simply not correct. Plenty of dogs I've known lived to a healthy 15 or more years on kibble, one on veggie-kibble (not my dog). 

Cancer is mostly genetic.

Everything is mostly genetic.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Honeybee1999 said:


> Thank you for the great info! I will order some of that bone meal for Ruger. I was actually looking at that on Amazon and had it in my cart a few days ago.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


......

Best of luck in your new "raw" venture! Just Please make sure to do extensive research so that you will construct a BALANCED raw diet.

Human Ingredients Feed Sential Products. PERFECT for a raw diet! *Feed Sentials K-9 Multiple Vitamins*: https://market.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/products/feed-sentieals-k9
*Sunday Sundae* – Digestive Enzyme/Probiotic combo: https://market.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/products/sunday-sundae-k9-probiotic-digestive-aidb
*Sh-emp Oil* – Combination of Hemp Oil, Coconut Oil, and Herring Oil: https://market.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/products/sh-emp-oil


You are doing a great thing for this pup!
Moms


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Muskeg said:


> Kibble is not the equivalent of eating a big mac and fries and soda day in and day out. That is simply not correct. Plenty of dogs I've known lived to a healthy 15 or more years on kibble, one on veggie-kibble (not my dog).
> 
> Cancer is mostly genetic.
> 
> Everything is mostly genetic.


Don't agree. its a proven fact that there are Cancer causing ingredients in kibble, not to mention the vitamins that come from China(for humans and dogs) that have no regulation. Dogs and people are getting Cancer at alarming rates. There is something much bigger going on. 

Genetics might play a small role, but there is environment, diet and vaccines that play a role and probably a bigger role.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Please link to a peer-reviewed journal article showing higher cancer rates in dogs fed kibble compared to dog fed raw. I can easily find articles in scientific journals showing a genetic link for cancers. 

Are cancer rates really rising, or are there just more people and they are living lots longer?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Starting raw feeding for a dog who has been on processed kibble his whole life would be like a *human* eating a Big Mac and Fries for his 3 meals and then one day deciding to eat fresh GREEN salad!
> Not a good OUT-come...if you know what I mean! LOL
> Moms





Muskeg said:


> Kibble is not the equivalent of eating a big mac and fries and soda day in and day out. That is simply not correct. Plenty of dogs I've known lived to a healthy 15 or more years on kibble, one on veggie-kibble (not my dog).


Hi Muskeg,
I hope you did not think that I was comparing the nutritional value of kibble to a Big Mac. 

I was trying to let the OP know that when you change a dogs food it can give gut upset and that fresh food being introduced for the first time could cause diarrhea for some people and dogs when their body is only use to eating particular ingredients. 

Moms


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## CatChandler (Jul 25, 2016)

Cancer is an immune system issue and has genetic and environmental components, for people as well as dogs. Cancer in dogs can even be caused by things like spaying or neutering too early. With some exceptions, I don't think dogs and people are getting cancer at higher rates overall. Our detection and screening methods are much better so we are diagnosing human cancers very early... in some cases, it might be a cancer that the person would live with for the rest of their life without it ever causing a quality of life issue.

I continue to feed high-quality kibble with because IN MY OPINION that is the best way for my dogs to have a healthy immune system. I trust that the AAFCO nutritional standards that are backed by decades of research will do less harm than me feeding a raw diet that may or may not contain the appropriate amounts of vitamins and minerals my dogs need. I saw a thread on here recently questioning whether raw diets might contain too much calcium and cause bone problems. If you don't know FOR SURE that you are feeding a balanced diet, why risk your dog's life?

I respect people who have researched this and feel confident in feeding raw. It's just not for me.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> You should be using BONE MEAL that contains proper Calcium/Phos ratio instead of the calcium citrate, if you are not feeding raw bone.
> 
> "Because growing puppies need more phosphorus than adult dogs, bone meal is the best source of calcium for them. Bone meal contains phosphorus in addition to calcium. Each brand of bone meal will provide a different amount of calcium per teaspoon. Check the produce label before using." dogaware.com
> 
> ...


if YOU recommend something, you bet i'll be on it 
so for a 70lb 7m old male GSD, on a kibble diet mixed with cooked eggs/pork/chiken/veggies, how much of this supplement would you recommend?
still the 1 and 1/2 teaspoon per every meal?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Pan_GSD said:


> if YOU recommend something, you bet i'll be on it
> so for a 70lb 7m old male GSD, on a kibble diet mixed with cooked eggs/pork/chiken/veggies, how much of this supplement would you recommend?
> still the 1 and 1/2 teaspoon per every meal?


Hey Pan!

The Bone Meal is *ONLY if feeding total raw without bone*.

Your kibble should have the correct amount of calcium according to the manufacturer's recipe. 

If you want to add some "whole food" nutrients that can be used with kibble, try these, they're great!
Feed Sential Products:
*Feed Sentials K-9 Multiple Vitamins*: https://market.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/products/feed-sentieals-k9
*Sunday Sundae* – Digestive Enzyme/Probiotic combo: https://market.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/products/sunday-sundae-k9-probiotic-digestive-aidb
*Sh-emp Oil* – Combination of Hemp Oil, Coconut Oil, and Herring Oil: https://market.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/products/sh-emp-oil



Moms


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Muskeg said:


> Please link to a peer-reviewed journal article showing higher cancer rates in dogs fed kibble compared to dog fed raw. I can easily find articles in scientific journals showing a genetic link for cancers.
> 
> Are cancer rates really rising, or are there just more people and they are living lots longer?


My vet says cancer is skyrocketing among cats and dogs. They did not point the finger at kibble or any other single factor but said they felt it was a combination of environment, including kibble.

I know it was no big secret many years ago among some breeds, maybe all, I don't know, for when a dog got cancer young, breeders would not hesitate to collect sperm full well knowing that the chances of it being genetic were high and would not hesitate to use those genes for breeding because a stud dog was a nice physical specimen. I have no idea if those practices still stand today or if they do, in what breeds.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Purebred dogs are a closed gene pool. Certain breeds, and many larger breeds are very cancer prone. You can trace cancer rates by breed, even a single, much-used ancestor (Golden retrievers). 

I think it is unfair, to give someone the hope that by feeding a dog a raw diet they are eliminating or even reducing cancer risk. I wish this was true, but I really do not see any evidence at all that says it is true.

Dogs are getting more inbred and there are certainly more environmental toxins out there, but I do not think cancer and diet are strongly linked in our dogs.

I wish there was a silver bullet, but it is mostly genetics. You can select for longevity but sacrifice other desirable traits. 

I just hate to see someone spend a lot of time, money and effort on a raw diet for a puppy when I do not think this will prevent cancer, and might cause other health issues. Most raw feeders I know do not feed raw to puppies, because it can be tricky to get it right. 

I'm not trying to be doom and gloom but I am a scientist and I have a close friend who is a genetic counselor (for people). I just don't like to see people confused by pseudo-science, and possibly make poor choices for their much loved pet.

It stinks, but sometimes we do everything right and the dog still dies or get sick. I just experienced that. Sometimes, there is just no reason, and you can't do anything. 

Love the ones you've got and make sure you have no regrets.


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## Honeybee1999 (Mar 2, 2006)

Well if you are concerned about me feeding a raw diet to my puppy, you don't need to worry. I have a degree in Animal Science so I do know something about balancing nutrients and making sure the diet meets all of their needs (I've balanced many ruminant and equine rations, not canine, but the principles are the same).

That being said, I do think the animal nutrition industry is more interested in making foods cost efficient rather than as healthy as possible for our pets. And I believe vets truly do worry that the average person will not correctly balance their pets' foods. 

We know in human nutrition that the less processed and more varied the diet is, the healthier it is for people. Especially diets rich in phytonutrients, which we are learning are cancer-fighting ingredients.

However, I'm under no illusions that a raw or otherwise unprocessed diet will cure cancer. The most I'm hoping for is to provide the best nutrition that I can to my animals, to give them the best shot possible as maintaining their health for as long as possible. And if my feeding an unprocessed, species-appropriate diet will help me feel like I did the best I could for my animals, even if they do develop cancer, then that's good enough for me.

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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> The Bone Meal is *ONLY if feeding total raw without bone*.
> 
> Your kibble should have the correct amount of calcium according to the manufacturer's recipe.


that is GREAT to know
bone source was really my biggest concern since meat is easy to provide safely if i cook them, and probiotic supplement can somewhat supplement eating raw tripe
but bone, of course, can't be fed cooked

but if my kibble is enough that's good

and once my probiotic runs out, i will be getting sunday sundae since you always speak so highly of it

thank you again :smile2:


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Pan_GSD said:


> that is GREAT to know
> bone source was really my biggest concern since meat is easy to provide safely if i cook them, and probiotic supplement can somewhat supplement eating raw tripe but bone, of course, can't be fed cooked but if my kibble is enough that's good




Hi Pan,
I'm assuming that *you are feeding your dog the kibble amount per day *according to the label?

You're not feeding 1/2 the kibble amount that's recommended and adding your own meat combo for the other half....right? 

I would not recommend the above b/c it would not be a balanced meal AND your cal/phos would be off for a puppy.

I'm assuming that the meat, veg and eggs combo are just fed as a topping?

Moms


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Momto2GSDs said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Hi Pan,
> I'm assuming that *you are feeding your dog the kibble amount per day *according to the label?
> ...


correct, just as a topper
i make sure i don't overfeed my dog since hip dysplasia is something i'm scared of


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Pan_GSD said:


> correct, just as a topper
> i make sure i don't overfeed my dog since hip dysplasia is something i'm scared of


OK great!

Jeesss makin sure! 


Moms


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

We all have cancer cells. All our dogs have cancer cells. Eventually, we will succumb to them as will our dogs if something else doesn't get us first. 

Genetic? Sure. Some families have cancer run in them, or they succumb to the same type of cancers and perhaps that is only partly genetic. It could be cultural. It could be a combination of where they live, toxins, etc; how they clean and with what; and what types of foods they commonly eat that makes a family prone to the same cancer, manifesting at around the same timeframe. 

I fed for a few years a dog food created by a lady whose dog died of cancer and her mission was to create a dog food that dogs would not die from cancer with. She would always promise, "Your dog will not die from cancer." And, what do you know? Cujo died from cancer. Of course he was on Phenobarbitol and Potassium Br (I think) for seizures, and the vet said, that the meds would take a couple of years off his life. He was seven. I suppose that is a couple of years. Bummer. My bitches were not conceiving at all, for a couple of years, I switched foods and wham, we had puppies again. The food put weight on my dogs, but I lost Arwen to cancer. Years later I lost Tori as well to cancer. So, then, you have to wonder, was it food? 

I dunno. I really don't know. Food is easy to pinpoint, especially if you are feeding cheap kibble with food coloring and dubious ways to preserve the meats and fat, and then cheap fillers that might be, probably are GMO. Yep, a properly balanced raw diet made from locally sourced, organic, free-range livestock, would be ideal. When I win the PCH Sweepstakes, that is what I am going to do. Until then the plain, ugly brown, boring, dry kibbles and the occasional chicken quarter with fat and skin, plumped up with factory infused chicken broth, probably out of China, will have to do. 

I give my dogs chicken occasionally. I pop open the carton and give the dogs a leg or a couple of drums and a thigh. They scarf them down. One or two might get a loose stool. But I am more likely to get a loose stool when opening a bag of food. And since I open 4-5 bags of food a week, well it happens. 

Usually, if I just back down a little what I am giving, the loose stool firms up. 

I got to ask though, where'd ya get the chicken? Because chickens can be infused with chicken broth -- to make them look better in the packages. That broth is God knows what. And, that could be causing more trouble in the digestive tract, salt, etc. So, it really isn't good enough to just go raw, but to go to a butcher, or raise the critters yourself. If I could just hack off their heads, and skin them, I would raise chickens and rabbits, goats, a pig, and maybe a beef critter to feed my dogs myself each year. But then I would name them, and Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton Tail, and Peter; Chicky-Baby; Billy and Willy; Porky and Wilbur; and T-bone never would make it into the dog dishes. I'd be better off going after Bambi. But then you need to freeze that for a while, and I don't have room for a separate freezer.


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## Honeybee1999 (Mar 2, 2006)

I wish I had seen this before I decided to try switching cold turkey: https://www.google.com/amp/s/theraw...aster-than-raw/amp/?client=ms-android-verizon

A gradual switch would probably saved us the heartache and discomfort of diarrhea the past few days. Live and learn.

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## Honeybee1999 (Mar 2, 2006)

Selzer, I bought the chicken thighs at Walmart in the frozen section. So yeah, they probably do have chicken broth in them. I know the package of frozen chicken breasts often say they contain up to 15% broth, which is probably salty as heck.

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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Honeybee1999 said:


> Selzer, I bought the chicken thighs at Walmart in the frozen section. So yeah, they probably do have chicken broth in them. I know the package of frozen chicken breasts often say they contain up to 15% broth, which is probably salty as heck.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I use the crap at Wal-Mart too, but my dogs may be a little more accustomed to salty crap. I dunno. But I worry about that broth they tell you is in there. 

I mean, ya think you are doing good by less processing, better nutrition for a dog, and thwap! They shove all kinds of something in there. 

And some dogs have digestive issues just by changing their water source.

Just give me MEAT!!!!! Don't do anything to it, just hack it up and give it to me!

Ah well.


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## Honeybee1999 (Mar 2, 2006)

And to clarify, I don't think good quality kibble causes cancer. It just may not provide optimum nutrition. I'm starting to think the best of both worlds might be a kibble base with added raw foods and supplements.

If I had to blame Iris's cancer on anything it would be Nexgard. This was the first year I used it. I had misgivings about giving it in the first place, especially at her age. But Frontline doesn't work in our area anymore and ticks that carry Lyme disease are a big problem here. It was a calculated risk. I think we lost. 

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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The rate of Cancer in dogs is currently higher then humans. Just imagine how much sun dogs are exposed to without any protection? That's one example of environment. 

50% of dogs are affected by cancer by the time they are seniors.

-Twice as likely to develop leukemia than humans.
-Four times more likely to suffer from breast cancer.
-Eight times more likely to develop bone cancer.
-An incredible thirty-five times more at risk for developing skin cancer.

Dogs may actually be consuming carcinogens in their dog food. Some of the chemicals used to preserve pet foods have been revealed to be cancer causing agents. Mouth cancer is actually the fourth leading cause of cancer deaths in dogs.

Dogs regularly inhale unseen cancer causing materials. When does a dog ever really stop sniffing everything it comes in contact with? Carcinogens in the environment tend to settle on the ground and other objects, where they remain in trace form until Fido sniffs them up. These carcinogens may have a cumulative effect and eventually cause one or more types of cancer to develop.


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## Honeybee1999 (Mar 2, 2006)

We also remove important hormones from their bodies during critical developmental periods. We dose them with topical and oral pesticides on a regular basis...I'm starting to think that if I wouldn't put something on or in my children, I shouldn't put it on or in my animals, either. 

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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Video on sugar in dog foods.

https://www.facebook.com/doctor.karen.becker/videos/1289854397756106/


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Honeybee1999 said:


> We also remove important hormones from their bodies during critical developmental periods. We dose them with topical and oral pesticides on a regular basis...I'm starting to think that if I wouldn't put something on or in my children, I shouldn't put it on or in my animals, either.


the pesticides issue is a tough one. I don't like putting pesticides in and on my dogs but what the bugs do to my dogs can be even more harmful.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Muskeg said:


> Kibble is not the equivalent of eating a big mac and fries and soda day in and day out. That is simply not correct. Plenty of dogs I've known lived to a healthy 15 or more years on kibble, one on veggie-kibble (not my dog).
> 
> Cancer is mostly genetic.
> 
> Everything is mostly genetic.


Oh no it is not !


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