# Extra nipples and Coy?!?



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

So today has been pretty hectic with my vet coming over this morning, work, shuffling kids around, and all the other glories of single parent/puppy hood.

My vet said the first time she examined Lyka, she wasn't sure she was full GSD, and had some thoughts on her mix. Well before she could tell me her thoughts, Lyka started her BS and the rest of the visit was pretty much a rush.

So since we actually had time to sit and talk today after the exams and shots, she told me she thinks Lyka is a coy dog. I had no idea wth she was talking about. So she explains. Apparently coy dogs are pretty common in Mexico. She said she can't be positive without blood work, but she's seen more than a few as her years as a vet (confirmed with blood tests) and Lyka has the same look and mannerisms of a coy dog. I've done some research, and a lot fits, but I'm still pretty skeptical...

As for the extra nipples I asked about in a different thread, it has been comfirmed. They are definitely extra nipples and not a growth of any kind.

I'm thinking she probably just took a bath in the crap the TMNT's did, and her super power is extra fully functioning nipples  

Now I'm off to do more research on coy dogs... I'm curious as **** even through my skepticism.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Sorry, I haven't read all the posts on this litter. Are you saying that the mother of the litter might by part coyote? That is my understanding of coy dog.


----------



## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Hahaha her super power is being a super mom! I'm about to Google coy dogs also (never heard of this) and I am so happy they are extra nipples and not something life threatening.


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

Yes, she believes Lyka (the bitch of the litter) is part coyote. I'm thinking it sounds too odd to be true. I'm debating letting her draw blood on Monday when she gives her the sedative for her nail trimming.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

jschrest said:


> Yes, she believes Lyka (the bitch of the litter) is part coyote. I'm thinking it sounds too odd to be true. I'm debating letting her draw blood on Monday when she gives her the sedative for her nail trimming.


Coyote dog cross is not uncommon. Did anyone sign your adoption contract where you specify Dog Breed: German Shepherd ?


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

Yes, I've had 3 sign the contract that states GSD. I don't want to scare the owners just on a "hunch" my vet has. That's why I'm considering allowing her to do the blood draw.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

jschrest said:


> Yes, I've had 3 sign the contract that states GSD. I don't want to scare the owners just on a "hunch" my vet has. That's why I'm considering allowing her to do the blood draw.


Well, I'm just a little concerned for you, only because when we talked about the potty training yesterday you said you were only going to have them for another 2 days anyway. I'm pretty sure they have to send the blood to a genetics testing lab and that would take time to get the results.


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

She will have to send it off. I've been upfront with the owners and told them at Lykas first appt, the vet told me she is likely not full GSD. And that I have no idea who the father is, only the BS the previous owner fed everyone, so they are aware they pups are likely not full GSD either. I just don't want to freak them out about the coy part without being certain.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Post a couple decent pictures of Lyka please


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

Ha, I'll try, but she isn't very photogenic. She hides when she sees my phone or a camera come out!


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

*Pics*

She truly does look like a different dog in pics, and weighs in at a whopping 38lbs! lol


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

jschrest said:


> She will have to send it off. I've been upfront with the owners and told them at Lykas first appt, the vet told me she is likely not full GSD. And that I have no idea who the father is, only the BS the previous owner fed everyone, so they are aware they pups are likely not full GSD either. I just don't want to freak them out about the coy part without being certain.


That's great. I just read that the contract said GSD. You may want to add a disclaimer to that. 

Did the vet quote you a price on the genetics test? The only reason I'm wondering is because the normal dog genetics test can be relatively inexpensive these days. However, when you get into testing for wolf or coyote content it can get considerably more expensive. The reason given, there are extreme regional and variable characteristics/ genetic markers in the wild canids that make identification more difficult. It takes a special database

The only papers I've read on this were specific to dog/wolf genetics and that content was determined by tests run at a university, and even the university had a disclaimer in their publication because of the difficulty in the dna analysis. It may be that the difficulty is with getting a specific percentage of wild canid to dog ratio is. Maybe just have them test and say yes or no to coyote would be less costly.

It might be a good idea to check with your vet on this to verify and get an idea of the cost


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Most of the coy dogs I have seen have a snipey muzzle. But their content was 1/2 coyote or better. I would never guess coyote just looking at her. But, my dog had a litter and several looked just like her (American Staffordshire) but I can guarantee you, they were 1/4 wolf.


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

The vet is doing it to satisfy her curiosity, so there would be no charge to me 

Lyka's ears are very short, I know they look normal in the pic, but they are not a normal length for a GSD. Her legs a very skinny, and long. Her teeth are not standard according to the vet. I just see teeth. lol. Her eyes are very light, but come out muddy in any pic with flash. I guess the best way to show you would be to take a video of her in the morning. Her mannerisms and walk screams coyote, as does her weird yip and howl. She made a den under a wooden 100 gallon tank stand. Burrowed a large den under it, and when it's playtime for pups, she drags them all in their. But, I'm sure dogs do that too, right? I noticed all that from the beginning, but wrote it off as bad genetics. It very well could still be that!


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

what is a snipey muzzle?


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

jschrest said:


> what is a snipey muzzle?


long, lean, narrow. If you google search - German Shepherd Coyote Images

you will see many photos of GSD/coyote crosses. The muzzle is much different in a coyote than a GSD.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

jschrest said:


> The vet is doing it to satisfy her curiosity, so there would be no charge to me
> 
> Lyka's ears are very short, I know they look normal in the pic, but they are not a normal length for a GSD. Her legs a very skinny, and long. Her teeth are not standard according to the vet. I just see teeth. lol. Her eyes are very light, but come out muddy in any pic with flash. I guess the best way to show you would be to take a video of her in the morning. Her mannerisms and walk screams coyote, as does her weird yip and howl. She made a den under a wooden 100 gallon tank stand. Burrowed a large den under it, and when it's playtime for pups, she drags them all in their. But, I'm sure dogs do that too, right? I noticed all that from the beginning, but wrote it off as bad genetics. It very well could still be that!


Wow, that's great if NC for the test! I'd have it done just out of curiosity too. The vocalizations can be a dead giveaway. Like no other. Have you ever played coyote vocalizations for her? There are several online that you can play for her and see if there's any reaction.


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

No I haven't, I just assumed when I first heard her it was maybe damage to her wind pipe from being chained, and all dogs howl, hers is just a weird howl. I'll play some right now and see how she reacts 

And btw, I was fretting about calling my retired vet and getting her involved, and felt so bad. When she came over today she told me I was an idiot, she loves practicing, just couldn't do it full time anymore because of arthritis. She's been itching to get her hands on some dogs that aren't her own! lol. So for her, figuring out if her hunch is right about Lyka is a fun little thing to keep her active and involved without the back breaking labor of a full on vet service. And she told me if I don't keep in regular contact with her, she's knows where I live, and I'll be sorry. Dun dun dun. lol. I has almost forgotten how much I love her!


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

OMG, she instantly freaked out. She is running through the house like a mad woman and making the same noises. I may have just unleashed a beast


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> long, lean, narrow. If you google search - German Shepherd Coyote Images
> 
> you will see many photos of GSD/coyote crosses. The muzzle is much different in a coyote than a GSD.


her muzzle is very very narrow. that's why I say she looks so much different in pics. I bought a medium soft muzzle for her, and had to return it for a small, and even that sagged slightly. I even mentioned in my first thread ages ago when I first got her, that I'm pretty sure the previous owner took her thinking she was full GSD based on pictures, then when she got her, she realized she wasn't, so she wanted to get rid of her before she found out she was pregnant. I thought she was full GSD until I got her too. She does look normal in pics, it's when you see her in person it's obvious.


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I am intrigued too! I am going to do some research, myself, on Coy dogs... crazy about the coyote howling that got her!! I wonder if you can video her howling or yipping for us


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Can a known coy-dog cross be legally vaccinated for Rabies? 

Just something to ponder. I know wolf hybrids often can't be legally vaccinated. They can be vaccinated, but it won't count if the animal bites someone. 

May not be something you want to know. And it's really rare to boot.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

gsdsar said:


> Can a known coy-dog cross be legally vaccinated for Rabies?
> 
> Just something to ponder. I know wolf hybrids often can't be legally vaccinated. They can be vaccinated, but it won't count if the animal bites someone.
> 
> May not be something you want to know. And it's really rare to boot.


EXACTLY. It very much is a state by state thing. 

She looks like a little GSD. I've seen a ton of these little minis in rescue - they may be poorly bred GSDs who were in unhealthy environments, they might be mixed with smaller breeds, etc.


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

She is most definitely poorly bred, there is no denying that! I mean, she has 4 extra nipples! Lol. I played a video of wolves howling, same response, then beagles and blood hounds baying, and she changed her tone up to match their sounds. Then I howled and yiped and she matched my sounds. So I think she's just an amazing impersonator! Lol. She doesn't nail all the sounds to any of them too a tee, but I didn't know dogs could change their sounds so drastically. I think she's just a little con artist who is great at fooling suckers like me. She was in Mexico, so it's not far fetched to think maybe she's just seen more coyotes than people and other dogs, so she picked up on their habits. 

During my research last night, even with a permit, they are not legal here, so she may just remain a mystery to me


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> EXACTLY. It very much is a state by state thing.
> 
> She looks like a little GSD. I've seen a ton of these little minis in rescue - they may be poorly bred GSDs who were in unhealthy environments, they might be mixed with smaller breeds, etc.


In all the years I had wolf/shepherd crosses, I never had a vet refuse to treat a single one, here in Michigan, where they were supposed to report them, even before the legislation against them. With the rabies vaccine, my vets all reasoned that, since the government often air-dropped bait loaded with oral vaccine (starting in the 1970s here, earlier in other countries), and the results were proof that the vaccine does work in wild canids, it stands to reason that it works for dogs with wolf (or coyote) blood. That being said, even before the legislation here in MI, if one of my vaccinated wolf shepherds had even scratched a human with one of its nails, it would have been killed, beheaded, and the head sent to MSU for rabies testing.

That's the reason I am so fanatical even now, many years away from having anything with wolf blood, about my dogs never off leash out of the fence, my fences always in the best repair, my gates always padlocked, etc.

Okay, down off my soapbox again... It just irritates me, the rabies vaccine issue, there is so much hypocrisy and politics involved. And, believe me, there are two huge supposedly animal-oriented organizations that are ultimately behind much of it.

Susan


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I never had a problem with a vet treating mine either and they need to know. With some medications and anesthesia they will reduce or change as sometimes there is less tolerance with crosses. 

The rabies thing is true also. I would think in this respect that it would apply to wolf or coyote crosses for the same reason. They simply haven't taken the time to prove the vaccinations work in these populations.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

jschrest said:


> She is most definitely poorly bred, there is no denying that! I mean, she has 4 extra nipples! Lol. I played a video of wolves howling, same response, then beagles and blood hounds baying, and she changed her tone up to match their sounds. Then I howled and yiped and she matched my sounds. So I think she's just an amazing impersonator! Lol. She doesn't nail all the sounds to any of them too a tee, but I didn't know dogs could change their sounds so drastically. I think she's just a little con artist who is great at fooling suckers like me. She was in Mexico, so it's not far fetched to think maybe she's just seen more coyotes than people and other dogs, so she picked up on their habits.
> 
> During my research last night, even with a permit, they are not legal here, so she may just remain a mystery to me



Yes, it's anyone's guess. But, the thing that got me was your vet mentioning the tooth/jaw structure being characteristic of a coyote. As far as I know, the pros don't really look at the physical appearance or even behavior - they look at the teeth and jaw structure and that don't lie... you might just ask her out of curiosity to explain what she's seeing there that is different.


----------



## CaliGSD3 (Apr 23, 2015)

I would say she sounds more like a mix of Gsd and Mexican "street dogs" I know someone who rescued a mom and pups and I ended up doing a lot of dogsitting for people who owned the mother and people who adopted the pups. They were all about 30-35 lbs, and didn't really bark like a normal dog, they had interesting yippy noises and LOVED to howl. The lady who brought them back has a vacation home over there and she says that that's pretty typical of the dogs in the area. 
To me, she really looks like a mix of GSD with one of those types rather than a coyote. Especially the nose and earset. I'll have to see if I can find a pic of one of them


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I suggest posting photos of her on coydog facebook groups to get more educated opinions. She looks purebred to me, just not well bred. She could be mixed but I doubt with coyote. Plus there are a zillion more common breeds with narrow muzzles out there.

And coydogs are uncommon, more uncommon than wolfdogs. I also would not go by a vet's opinion. Vets do not get any course on identifying dog breeds and wolf/coy dogs. I bet most of us here with long haired or non-typical colors could take our dogs to a vet and they would tell us they are mixes. In that area they are only about experienced as the clients they get, and lots of people believe they have coydogs/wolfdogs when they don't. I had a vet mistake my purebred CKC registered german shepherd as a wolfdog because he was oversized and black. They really are not educated enough in that area to give a credible opinion. 

But even if you do believe she is part coydog, don't tell anyone. The rabies part is true. It works for them but it isn't _approved_ for them, therefore if they bite someone it's like not being vaccinated at all when animal control shows up.



Stonevintage said:


> Yes, it's anyone's guess. But, the thing that got me was your vet mentioning the tooth/jaw structure being characteristic of a coyote. As far as I know, the pros don't really look at the physical appearance or even behavior - they look at the teeth and jaw structure and that don't lie... you might just ask her out of curiosity to explain what she's seeing there that is different.


That's not true at all. In all of the coydog and wolfdog groups I've been a part of no one has ever asked to look at teeth. The only difference is longer canines, but that is small potatoes compared to many other physical features that should be present.


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

What DNA test is your vet using?


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

I haven't a clue what testing she would do, she just asked if she could do a blood draw on Monday when she comes to do her nails. 

I'm leaning more towards no at this point. If she is a coy mix, I can't legally keep her. I'd rather remain curious about it than find out she is and have to surrender her. 

She probably is just a mix of Mexico street dog, and that's just fine by me . 4 extra nipples and all!


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

jschrest said:


> I haven't a clue what testing she would do, she just asked if she could do a blood draw on Monday when she comes to do her nails.
> 
> I'm leaning more towards no at this point. If she is a coy mix, I can't legally keep her. I'd rather remain curious about it than find out she is and have to surrender her.
> 
> She probably is just a mix of Mexico street dog, and that's just fine by me . 4 extra nipples and all!


I think that's the best, wisest decision. 

Susan


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Syaoransbear said:


> And coydogs are uncommon, more uncommon than wolfdogs. I also would not go by a vet's opinion. Vets do not get any course on identifying dog breeds and wolf/coy dogs.
> 
> That's not true at all. In all of the coydog and wolfdog groups I've been a part of no one has ever asked to look at teeth. The only difference is longer canines, but that is small potatoes compared to many other physical features that should be present.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Having worked for a vet (training his horses, and assisting in large animal surgery), and had a good friendship with him for years before and after I worked for him, there were a lot of things that he told me that surprised me. Now this was years ago, so perhaps it has changed. But when he went to school at MSU, if there was any type of specialization, the student had to take the initiative to get that experience and knowledge him/herself. Even though MSU had a good-sized breeding facility for Arabian horses, in order to get horse experience he had to take his own time and spend it at the horse farm, following one of the vets around, asking questions, asking to assist with procedures, etc. And information on wild species was close to non-existent, another area where the student had to take the initiative to learn about it. Things are probably better today, but my guess, there are still areas that are not well-covered in vet school. There is just too much to cover, more than MDs have to learn, they're only learning to treat one species. So, unless they actually choose a specialty, there are many who undoubtedly choose to learn about basically cats and dogs, and leave it at that. Our job is to find the exceptional vet, as well as educate ourselves--goes the same with human medicine, imo.

Susan


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Coydogs generally retain the Coyote coloring, and cannot be black and tan. No successive generations don't change that because they have only been able to produce viable, fertile offspring for 4 generations or so to date.

I know this because Shadows behavior and movement raised some flags, tail dragging in the snow, leaping and tossing food, yipping back at the Coyotes and the hip slam. So I did some research and since I happen to know a few wildlife biologists, I was able to access lots of research. 
Here in Alberta hybrids are fairly common, and in fact have become an issue over the years so there is a ton of research available.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> Coydogs generally retain the Coyote coloring, and cannot be black and tan. No successive generations don't change that because they have only been able to produce viable, fertile offspring for 4 generations or so to date.
> 
> I know this because Shadows behavior and movement raised some flags, tail dragging in the snow, leaping and tossing food, yipping back at the Coyotes and the hip slam. So I did some research and since I happen to know a few wildlife biologists, I was able to access lots of research.
> Here in Alberta hybrids are fairly common, and in fact have become an issue over the years so there is a ton of research available.


I really like the looks of this one. He is in the Calgary area. I wonder what the pups would look like if he was bred with a black and tan?


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Stonevintage said:


> It amazes me. I guess in paragraph one you are assuming that all vets learn only what they need to in order to be come a dog & cat vet. Some, believe it or not, spend their lives learning. One vet that I took my dog to for years left his dog & cat practice to go to Africa to head a team doing primate research relating to AIDS. He was totally qualified to fill this position and off he went. Dog & Cat is bread and butter, but there may be much more.
> 
> When you quote my post and state "That's not true at all". It lets me know that you may not be in the proper frame of mind to learn something. But, lets give a whirl (see attachments). Just because you have been a part of coy-dog fan clubs does not mean that you know it all IMHO.


But your vet wouldn't be a typical vet. And the OP didn't say their vet was a coyote expert. Most do just go to school and are happy to continuing learning from only their clients. There are hundreds of dog breeds and when you throw in different kinds of wolves and coyotes, vets cannot be experts in all of them and their mixes. Their knowledge mostly comes from the experience they get over the years. And if they have had 20 owners who told them their dog was a coydog and maybe only 2 or 3 actually were, they won't have _good_ experience. And there is a staggering amount of people out there who say they have coydogs or wolfdogs when they don't. That is why it's a pet peeve of mine when people encourage others to believe their dog is a coydog or a wolfdog when it probably isn't. Not only does everyone who has a similar looking/acting dog think they have a coydog now, but all of it's offspring may be incorrectly labeled as such. And then breeders breed them because it's something exotic. And because the moment you label that dog as a coydog or a wolfdog, you have doomed that dog to live a life under all of the anti-hybrid legislation that exists.

And the op said that the vet said that her teeth 'aren't standard'. That really isn't enough information to think it's a coydog. The dog's nipples aren't standard either .

Coydogs and wolfdogs are not identified just by their mouth structures. Even with coyotes and wolves having larger canines, many dog breeds have larger canines. When phenotyping them you take into account _all_ of their physical features along with their behavior. So no, the pros do not look into a dog's mouth and identify it just from that. It would be one out of many, many physical features they would look for, and ultimately in the long run makes up a very tiny percentage of what they are looking for. It's a drop in the bucket.

A german shepherd forum is very useful if you want to know if your dog contains german shepherd. Not if you want to know if it contains coyote.


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Stonevintage said:


> I really like the looks of this one. He is in the Calgary area. I wonder what the pups would look like if he was bred with a black and tan?


Do they know for sure that that is even a coydog?


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> I really like the looks of this one. He is in the Calgary area. I wonder what the pups would look like if he was bred with a black and tan?


You do understand that the city would not have adopted out a coydog right? 
Do you have any idea how many people around here claim to have wolf dogs or coydogs? It's a thing, a stupid thing since if anyone believed them their dogs would be taken away. 
Aside from all that, captive coydogs are notorious for being shy, aloof and tough to train. The hybrids that run around the city limits are aggressive, really aggressive and much bolder then coyotes.

And to answer your question, the agouti gene that gives coyotes their coloring is dominant.


----------



## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

And this is why I was hesitant to post this. I'm not saying she is, I wouldn't be excited if she was, because then I would have to surrender her. I'm not evening saying I think she is. Sure, she has a lot of mannerisms and some physical likeness (when seen in person) and makes weird noises, but like others have said, she could be a random Mexican street mix. 

I would never go around announcing I had a coy dog, whether it was confirmed or just suspected. Well, aside from an Internet forum that is . 

My vet just said she had suspicions the first time she saw her, and even more whe she was able to examine her more closely. Now whether her opinion or suspicions come from actual knowledge of coyotes, or hybrids, I don't know, I didn't ask. When she told me, Lykas behaviors and weird way of walking, running, barks and howls just kinda clicked and made sense. But, it also clicks for wild feral street dog attitude/demeanor as well. 

The only thing I'm positive of is that she definitely has something going on, and it makes her a little more challenging than any of my other rescues, but I'm learning, and falling more in love with her every day no matter what type of mix she may be. If she's even a mix at all. She could easily be stunted both physically and mentally from being chained her whole life and being fed improperly.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I only see a German Shepherd. And she is very cute!


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I'm not being mean. Lyka looks like a cute, small German Shepherd. Enjoy her.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Another conversation I wish I never got into. I was just trying to help the op. I was intrigued by the vet's comments. The op and I conversed. I redirected her back to the vet for more information. End of story. I am still curious in what the vet saw that no one else seems to see. FTLOG, op could you please ask your vet (when you see her Monday) what she saw that made her think about testing for coyote content so this can be put to bed? From the horses mouth, so to speak

Shyness is mentioned with both coyote-dog, wolf-dog crosses. But some aren't.

It is not uncommon to see a coyote walking down a subdivision street in So Cal, seemingly without a care in the world. They are evolving and adapting in ways their fear never allowed them before. This, in a relatively short period of time. I approached to within 15 feet of one laying on someones front lawn. He had come for a drink of water from a sprinkler. 

When my opinion or comments are questioned, or I am flat out told I am wrong, I like to see something supporting the other persons opinion. I have provided some to support for mine, but they are called lies or ignored (tooth STRUCTURE is different, not tooth size). And yet, you offer nothing.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> Another conversation I wish I never got into. I was just trying to help the op. I was intrigued by the vet's comments. The op and I conversed. I redirected her back to the vet for more information. End of story. I am still curious in what the vet saw that no one else seems to see. FTLOG, op could you please ask your vet (when you see her Monday) what she saw that made her think about testing for coyote content so this can be put to bed? From the horses mouth, so to speak
> 
> Shyness is mentioned with both coyote-dog, wolf-dog crosses. But some aren't.
> 
> ...


 Actually the entire skull and jaw structure is different.

And again, _the black and tan pattern of a German Shepherd is not possible in a Coyote hybrid. _The Agouti gene that causes the Coyote coloration is dominant.


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Stonevintage said:


> Another conversation I wish I never got into. I was just trying to help the op. I was intrigued by the vet's comments. The op and I conversed. I redirected her back to the vet for more information. End of story. I am still curious in what the vet saw that no one else seems to see. FTLOG, op could you please ask your vet (when you see her Monday) what she saw that made her think about testing for coyote content so this can be put to bed? From the horses mouth, so to speak
> 
> Shyness is mentioned with both coyote-dog, wolf-dog crosses. But some aren't.
> 
> ...


But we have no idea what the vet even said about the teeth, just that they 'weren't standard'. 

I really don't know what you want me to offer. Proof that people who phenotype don't base everything on teeth?


----------

