# What is a reverse mask?



## Sunflowers

I read somewhere about a reverse mask, but have been unable to find pictures of exactly what that means.

Is this considered a fault?

Finally, would Hans's be considered a reverse mask?


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## VanBuren shepherds

The standard is that the muzzle be predominantly black. And yes that is what some people call a reversed mask!


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## VanBuren shepherds

But with that being said I love that look and the best GSD I've ever had looked just like your picture. Beautiful!


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## wildo

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO also has a dog (Mikko) with a reverse mask.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

Yes that is a reverse mask. My dog has one too- I am partial to them because of him 












wildo said:


> I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO also has a dog (Mikko) with a reverse mask.


Lol, we posted at the same time


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## Sunflowers

Thank you!

So now I have a name for his tan face :wub:

I actually told the breeder I would prefer a lighter face.
I have absolutely no idea how she knew, when he looked like this, that he would end up like the picture above, but she told me that if I wanted a face like his mother's, he would have it:










*Here is his mom Questa:*


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## Sunflowers

And did one of my faves, Lord vom Gleisdreieck, have one, too?


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

His mom is gorgeous, as is your dog!

Yes Lord vom G has a reverse mask. I read somewhere that it originated with his lines- something about his breeder preferring it or breeding him for it.


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## lhczth

A reverse mask. A fault I often saw coming down from Lord.


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## gagsd

On the Czech dogs, Ben z Bolfu also produced it.


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## Sunflowers

lhczth said:


> A reverse mask. A fault I often saw coming down from Lord.


Good grief, what a beautiful dog! Is that one of his descendants?
This is actually a desirable fault, to me:wild:


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## lhczth

The above dog's sire, a Lord grandson.


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## Chris Wild

Not uncommon in dogs going back on Lord, but it didn't originate with him. It was not unusual in many of the dogs in the US back in the 50s and 60s, especially black/cream and black/silvers. Many, like the dog who played the Littlest Hobo on TV, looked almost like huskies in the face. There was someone who posted a faded sable puppy here on the board recently who also has a husky looking reverse mask.


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## lhczth

He was a Lord great grandson through his sire lines.


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## lhczth

No, didn't originate from him. Just common coming from him. 

Still going through photos.


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## Sunflowers

gagsd said:


> On the Czech dogs, Ben z Bolfu also produced it.


Oh, goody... now I will have all sorts of fun looking for where it came from! :crazy:


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## Sunflowers

HA! It didn't take long, it WAS Ben! :wild:

If you click on VYBORNY Pluto z Pohranicni straze on Hans's pedigree, there on the next page he is!


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## GSDGunner

Sunflowers said:


> Thank you!
> 
> So now I have a name for his tan face :wub:
> 
> I actually told the breeder I would prefer a lighter face.
> I have absolutely no idea how she knew, when he looked like this, that he would end up like the picture above, but she told me that if I wanted a face like his mother's, he would have it:


Wow, that's amazing. How on earth could anyone say this dog would have a reverse mask? He looks just like Gunner at that age. And Gunner had a very black mask and he had it for a few years before it lightened.

Oh and how stinkin cute was Hans as a puppy?? :wub::wub::wub::wub:


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## Sunflowers

GSDGunner said:


> Wow, that's amazing. How on earth could anyone say this dog would have a reverse mask? He looks just like Gunner at that age. And Gunner had a very black mask and he had it for a few years before it lightened.
> 
> Oh and how stinkin cute was Hans as a puppy?? :wub::wub::wub::wub:


I know... she had me go to the site and click on this photo, and that was it. :wub: I was looking at her other litter she had at the time, but she said he had the sweetest temperament. 

As for knowing, the only thing I can think of is if you enlarge the photo significantly, you can see that the black is not true, but more on the brown side.

Check out pics of the puppies.
Hans's pics are #11 and #12. 
I think I see a lighter mask in #12, and to the left is his brother who I think looked like Joe Pesci! :rofl:

Questa Pups (4wks) & Utah Pups (5wks) | Facebook


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

I think your breeder could probably tell because you can see the tan coming through just a little bit. This is a picture of my dog at 10 weeks and you can see some tan poking through the mask- definitely more pronounced than your dog, but he was a few weeks older too (at least it seems judging by your picture)










Thanks Lisa and Chris for the additional info on the reverse mask


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## Sunflowers

Thank you, Lisa and Chris. I absolutely love learning about these things. 
The Hans baby picture was 4 weeks.
As for Mikko....oh goodness! :wub: :wub:


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## RocketDog

That puppy pic of Hans...

Dang you Sunflowers!!

:crazy:

puppyfever:


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## Sunflowers

RocketDog said:


> That puppy pic of Hans...
> 
> Dang you Sunflowers!!
> 
> :crazy:
> 
> puppyfever:


I know... sorry about that. 

Here he is at 7 weeks. Yep, now that I look reeeeallly closely, I can see brown and not black on that mask. 

And looking at that very sweet face, I realize I need to do right by my dog and get outside with him instead of talking about him on the computer, LOL.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

Ahhhh soooo cute!!! And very cool that you can trace your dog back to the Czech dog who is known to produce them!


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## wildo

THAT'S a reverse mask puppy?? I would have never guessed!


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## robk

The breeder knows because she knows her dogs and what they produce. Here is a picture of Hans Dam:


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## Sunflowers

robk said:


> The breeder knows because she knows her dogs and what they produce. Here is a picture of Hans Dam:


True...but, look at his sister. No reverse mask there!


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## robk

Yes, but Robin knows her dogs very well and has seen enough puppies to have a pretty good idea how they are going to turn out. By the way, I think Hans is one of the most striking looking dogs on this forum!


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## Sunflowers

robk said:


> Yes, but Robin knows her dogs very well and has seen enough puppies to have a pretty good idea how they are going to turn out. By the way, I think Hans is one of the most striking looking dogs on this forum!


Exactly. Not all of them got Questa's face coloring, but she knew which one would, at 4 weeks. 

And thank you for the compliments. He is my dream dog, and 99% what I wanted.


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## BlackthornGSD

And behind Ben Bolfu.... V Lexa z Marusky 

And her father, and behind him, this dog (twice): DDR SIEGER 1950 Utz vom Haus Hiller


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## GSDLA88

I love a reverse mask. Here's my girl!









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## wildo

GSDLA88 said:


> I love a reverse mask. Here's my girl!
> View attachment 23589


What qualifies a reverse mask? A majority portion of the muzzle being brown, as well as the eyes? I wonder if this pup is actually a reverse mask or not given how dark her muzzle is. She looks awesome though! Her face is like "raccoon eyes" to a whole new level! She has a raccoon band. haha


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## Liesje

To me it is a dark forehead and lack of black on the muzzle, so IMO faulty coloring. I'm not sure why it's called a "reverse" mask since it's really just lacking black on the muzzle, nothing is flipped around. Many dogs that have black muzzles already have a dark forehead as well. I know Coke is not a GSD or even a majority GSD (maybe a little?) but I've seen GSDs with the same face/coloring.


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## Sunflowers

GSDLA88 said:


> I love a reverse mask. Here's my girl!
> View attachment 23589
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


That is not reverse, but she is absolutely gorgeous! :wub:


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## robk

Sunflowers said:


> That is not reverse, but she is absolutely gorgeous! :wub:


I don't know. Depending on how old she is that nose could still lighten up a lot.


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## Liesje

Even if it did I wouldn't describe a dog's color pattern based on fading with age. I tend to think of a color pattern as something the dog was born with. For example my dog with the brown nose and black forehead has always been that way, even if he may still lighten further.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

Liesje said:


> Even if it did I wouldn't describe a dog's color pattern based on fading with age. I tend to think of a color pattern as something the dog was born with. For example my dog with the brown nose and black forehead has always been that way, even if he may still lighten further.


Why not? Sables don't look anything like they do when they are young. Many GSDs have much more black on them when they are young, look more like blanket backs, but then will be considered saddle backs. The reverse mask is the same way, as puppies they have a black mask that fades with their puppyhood.


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## Liesje

Sables are very distinctly sable from birth. I highly doubt that the dog in the photo is doing to loose all that black on the muzzle before 18 months or so. Mikko is what I think of when someone says "reverse mask" though I don't think the term itself is accurate.


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## Sunflowers

Could it be called reverse because the bottom of the muzzle is still black?


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

Liesje said:


> Sables are very distinctly sable from birth. I highly doubt that the dog in the photo is doing to loose all that black on the muzzle before 18 months or so. Mikko is what I think of when someone says "reverse mask" though I don't think the term itself is accurate.


Oh sorry, I misunderstood what you were referring to I think. I thought you when you said from birth, that like Mikko and Hans and other reverse mask dogs (or whatever you want to call it) shouldn't have a term that refers to their coloring because they aren't born that way. That's what I meant in referencing sables (probably a bad example) and the saddle coloration (better example). 
I think you were actually referring to the other dog posted who is older and still has the black mask? I don't think that dog has a reverse mask, and agree further lightening would be due to age but not color pattern.


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## Liesje

Yeah to me Hans, Mikko, and the ones Lisa posted (coming from Lord), and my Coke are what I picture when someone says "reverse mask", though it's really just a lack of a mask, not reverse anything. But you are right because it's not really a color pattern anyway, it's just lack of a mask. However I guess I would say to use the term the color is pretty much set once the dog is 12-18 months or so, I wouldn't use that term to describe normal fading of color over the dog's lifetime. Like I don't think an older dog that gets faded in the face is a "reverse mask" (for example my 11 year old foster dog Ruger had very little mask left but did when he was younger). A dog with little black on the muzzle will see it mentioned in a show critique but an older dog that is faded white probably will not, if that makes sense.


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## BlackthornGSD

Actually, from what I understand, the mask pattern that Lord has is a result of fading and that many of his descendents with dark muzzles will end up with a reverse mask as mature adults. Maybe that's why they retain the black masking around the lips as opposed to not having the muzzle-mask at all, as you see in, say, Rotties or Dobes.


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## kai0401




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## kai0401

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-kaiser-picture20962-img-20121221-120242.html


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## kai0401

*reversed mask gsd*


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## LeoRose

This is my Leo a few days after I rescued her. She was about 12 weeks old at the time.







I've been told, in the critique section, that she has a reverse mask.


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## Kellmurph001

My puppy Murphy has a reversed mask


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## carmspack

Murphy isn't a reverse mask -- he is lacking pigment .


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## Nigel

I would have guessed Murphy has a reversed mask. I don't understand lack of pigment vs some of the other examples that have been posted?


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## carmspack

samples of reverse mask - strong pigment 

https://parchimer-land.homepage.t-online.de/english.htm

​


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## Nigel

Ok, I see some good examples on that page with the dark masking on the forehead, but Murphy appears to have the same "pattern" only he has less pigment? also Ranger the dog in my avatar was said to have a reverse mask, his mask is not as dark as some on that page, yet his tongue has blue spots which I thought was an indicator of good pigment? or is this something different altogether?


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## Fodder

^ pigment can show itself in multiple ways - the richness of the dogs color, the skin leather (nose, lips, around the eyes), the eyes themselves or as you mentioned misplaced pigment in the form of spotted tongues. strong pigment in all areas is desirable but may not be the case.


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## LeoRose

Maybe Murphy's mask has just faded? Leo's mask is a lot lighter than when she was a pup. 

April 2012


November 2015
2015-11-23 Leo & Lily DSC_0408 by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr


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## Fodder

^ any coat/color/pattern description is (or should be) based on adults. it's the nature of our breed to change dramatically as they grow up. for example a near black puppy that ends up being a saddle back is always a saddle back (genetically). you wouldn't say you have a bi color that became a blanket back that became a saddle back.


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## Lrjd3

is ours a reverse mask and how will it look when it gets older?


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## Ash11205

I have 2 reverse mask gsd's 😂


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