# Does anyone have a rather dumb GSD



## carter4 (May 22, 2008)

I ask this because one of my main reasons for wanting a GSD is there intelligence. Thats why i was wondering if my luck in choosing a puppy could it be possible to get a pup that can't comprehend basic commands.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

How old is this pup?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Everyone I ever met that had a 'dumb' pup turned out to have an ower that didn't know what they were doing with the poor dog. So it was easier to blame the pup/dog than take the responsiblity for turning things around.

On the other hand, everyone I've known that have been pro-active with socializing their pup the first year or so, signing up for puppy kindergarten, locating a great trainer to then start up obedience/rally/agility/flyball/herding/schutzund/whatever...... All these dogs end up being amazingly intelligent!!!!

Have to add, finding a responsible breeder to match the puppy with the owner, support the new owner if they get into trouble, and basically be available for the life of the puppy is also a huge help.


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## carter4 (May 22, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: GSDBESTK9How old is this pup?


I don't have one yet still looking in the Raleigh, North Carolina area for a good breeder. 

I think of my self as a good trainer I've had in the past APBT's and Boxers which both if not properly trained could have a mind of their own.


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## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

I have one that I would not exactly consider dumb, but rather "difficult". Of course when I adopted her she was 2 years old and had ZERO training whatsoever. 

She's rather stubborn in her ways, but I honestly don't think any dog is dumb, I just find that some are easier to train than others.


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## carter4 (May 22, 2008)

well i said dumb but difficult seems like a more suitable word. I have a 4 year old daughter and a 1 year old son the son is fearless but my daughter hates being scratched so i will have to teach down and no jumping quickly


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I rescued a dog who was 2. He'd had minimal training and we thought he'd been abused. Poor guy had a scar around his neck from being tied out on a choke chain. 

He was gorgeous with a big blond head, we used to call him the blond dog. I'd always considered him 'dumb' for a german shepherd but maybe it was to do with lack of socialization and training at a young age.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

Even though your daughter is only four years old, make sure SHE gets to also work with teaching the dog "off" (I always use "down" to mean lay down and "off" to mean get off of something). I also use a "leave it" command when our 4mo GSD gets overly jumpy with my 6yo daughter. 

If you are always the one to tell the puppy to get off of your daughter or not to jump, the dog is going to take longer to see that your daughter ranks above the dog in the chain of command. The dog will need to know that even though the puppy will soon be bigger than your daughter, your daughter still gets to be the boss of the puppy.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Carter4, I personally have found GSD pups a huge challenge the first year.

As in, if I have the time and energy to add another human infant to the house, then I would be thinking about adding a GSD pup. (and I would talk to my spouse about this too







)

Because if the mental picture of adding another baby to the house at the current time would be overwhelming, I'd wait a year or so until it was more managable. The finances of classes, food, and vet bills............... along with the large amounts of time needed to take the pup out of the house on car rides, socialization trips, meet and greets, puppy classes, dog classes, etc................... I know would be a bit much for many families with very young children.

The very factors that make GSD's the best for herding, policework, search and rescue, drug dogs, bomb dogs........... are exactly what makes them much more of a challenge on a minute to minute basis then many other breeds. And the fact they really love to bite/chew/nip (in play but way more than any other breed I know) and that small children are at exactly the height that it's a face to face invitation to play that children seem to NOT enjoy...


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## LuckyD (Apr 21, 2008)

Well....

Have you seen all of the threads about mouthy/bitey GSD puppies? These pups aren't dumb, but they aren't gentle with small children either. And, you can't train many of them to be gentle quickly, or quickly enough, to trust them with small children for at least 6 months and possibly longer from what I've read and experienced.

Our puppy is very intelligent, but she's a handful. We've done puppy kindergarten, lots of socialization, lots of play and obedience work with her and at 6 mos she's just finally pulling out of being super mouthy. I don't mean occasionally jumping up either, but rather nipping holes in clothes and playing pretty rough. 

If you plan to get a GSD puppy soon, be aware that your small children (and I have 5 children from baby to 11 years old) may have problems with a playful puppy who quickly becomes much bigger and stronger than they are even if the puppy is smart. 

Intelligence and early training/commands with a pup under 6 months won't override puppy playful (but often destructive and sometimes injury inflicting) behavior. 

Best of luck and thanks for your service.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Carter4well i said dumb but difficult seems like a more suitable word. I have a 4 year old daughter and a 1 year old son the son is fearless but my daughter hates being scratched so i will have to teach down and no jumping quickly


Be careful with what you wish. I've not seen a GSD with big problems to understand concepts or in need of hundreds of repetitions to get an idea as I've seen in other breeds, but the "dumbs GSDs" I've met are more in the sense of lacks of motivation or for being too laid back.

Smart dogs are proactive, motivated, go for what they want, are persistent in what they wish... And often it means that when they are puppies they can be pushy and jumpers and they want to play all the time. In my experience GSD pups are more mouthy than other breeds and if you talk with owners involved in training you'll see that they consider mouthing one of the things you have to learn to live with until the pup grows out of it, sometimes not before 5 or 6 months. 

Think of it like the smarter human kids on their class are those who ask more questions and investigate beyond the classroom. So maybe in the circumstances you describe the smartest pup is not what you really need. With smart pups thay also need a lot of time and dedication to keep those little brain occupied and far away from mischievings.


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

MaggieRose Lee makes an excellent point.

They are a CHALLENGE and a lot of work the first year or two. Why not consider a young rescue? There are many Fantastic dogs out there that desparately need homes.....and they are already over the difficult early years. A good rescue organization can help you with an appropriate selection for your family.


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## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: CampPappyMaggieRose Lee makes an excellent point.
> 
> They are a CHALLENGE and a lot of work the first year or two. Why not consider a young rescue? There are many Fantastic dogs out there that desparately need homes.....and they are already over the difficult early years. A good rescue organization can help you with an appropriate selection for your family.


Thats a great idea, Sarge was about 2 when we got him. He had been abused for the first 2 years of his life,he was also pretty much a mess. No training, way under weight, scared of everybody and everything. Turns out he was very smart and learned quickly. Now hes a well adjusted member of our family. Deffinately something for you to think about. I recommend it highly.


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## JessicaMN (Sep 13, 2006)

I totally agree with all the previous posts. Pups are like babies....they take time to mature, learn, and grow. And expecting a pup to not want to chew on things when teething is like expecting a human baby to not want to gum teethers and toys to help with the teething pain/ache. 

I think an older rescue is a great idea. It seems like a pup might be too much for your family at this point, and you could totally bypass the chewing puppy stage with an older rescue. 

GSD's are smart! They just need to be challanged to keep their minds (and mouths) busy.


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## carter4 (May 22, 2008)

whoa whats going on i have had puppies me and my wife both know what to expect and we are prepared i just didn't want to get my hopes up thinking that the GSD is exceptionally smart and end up being disapointed


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

In your original post you seem to be equating intelligence with trainability and lack of intelligence with difficulty remembering and obeying commands. 

GSDs are (on average anyway) exceptionally smart but I think what people are saying is that smart doesn't necessarily translate to well behaved or calm. In fact, I'd argue that the smarter the GSD puppy the more mischievous, energetic, and generally challenging it probably will be. 

The most obedient and easy to train dogs I've owned or fostered have been those with excellent handler orientation but probably slightly less intelligence than many of the others. The most intelligent dogs I've owned and fostered have been the most challenging to train and none of them were dogs I'd recommend to someone with small kids. They were like small kids themselves! 

There are those breeds which are high energy and also kind of thick skulled and GSDs typically don't fall into that category. However, even though GSDs are more responsive than some breeds, puppies are typically very high energy and can be extremely excitable and mouthy in play, which can be very hard for young kids to deal with because their little shark teeth are right at face level.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Just went back and read your earlier posts. I think the bottom line is that while GSDs are not difficult in the same ways that APBTs and Boxers are, they have their own brand of difficult so aren't necessarily going to be any easier for you, just different.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Carter4whoa whats going on i have had puppies me and my wife both know what to expect and we are prepared i just didn't want to get my hopes up thinking that the GSD is exceptionally smart and end up being disapointed


Everyone just wants to make sure you know what your in for. GSD puppies tend to be jumpy and mouthy and lovingly referred to as little alligators.

I don't think you'll be at all disappointed if you do your homework and select a breeder who will help with the right pup for your family. The difference will be amazing when training a GSD compared to the other breeds you've had. While some are stubborn hardheaded dogs, a good breeder will help you find the right pup.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:GSDs are (on average anyway) exceptionally smart but I think what people are saying is that smart doesn't necessarily translate to well behaved or calm. In fact, I'd argue that the smarter the GSD puppy the more mischievous, energetic, and generally challenging it probably will be.


We are not trying to criticize you at all. What we are trying to say is that many of our GSD pups are much harder the first year than many other breeds. And NOT because of a lack of intelligence. It's cause of being too smart with the energy level of that crazy Energizer Bunny. 

And I'm not saying you wouldn't ever be able to get one, I just would recommend waiting until your 1 year old child was a bit older. Really, if you asked your wife (and yourself) if you could adopt another human infant into your family right now, and then answer truly is that you both do have the time/energy right now, then THAT is the frame of mind I have to be in when I get a GSD puppy. 

I have to have time, every day, to take the puppy out of the house for probably an hour. Away from the yard, spouse, kids and in the car. To socialize with new people in new places with new dogs. And I need to OFF LEASH, run that puppy, swim the puppy, exercise the puppy not in my yard, not around the block. And that's for about the first year, though I can fade to 3 to 4 times a week around 6 months, though I may have to be out with them longer.

So if your wife is willing to leave you with the 2 kids for an hour or so a day so she can work with the new puppy. Or if she's willing to have you come home from work, scoop that puppy up and leave for the next hour or so................ then you will be able to do this well.

Did you get a chance to look at the Teaching Bite Inhibtion  site? This is a really huge huge problem for many of us. And I'm really not kidding. These GSD's are somekind of nuts with the having to use their mouths when wanting to play with us. And it's extremely painful for me as an adult, and it's just my hands at their level. Kids faces are exactly the correct location as a fellow puppy that they would bite, only we don't seem to enjoy seeing our kids faces in our puppies mouths.

You can ask anyone that posted on the bite inhibition site how they worked thru this and ALL of them try everything. It's takes a ton of time to teach them a new way to play with toys, and just a pup getting older helps alot. But getting to that older age is very painful.

I like that people are recommending a bit older GSD. If you locate a great responsible breeder they may have the perfect dog for you, or know of one. That way you get a healthy dog, great temperment, and someone else worked thru all the biting issues!!!


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## carter4 (May 22, 2008)

I just didn't want to get people thinking that i wasn't doing my homework or that i was totally ignorant to the responsibilities of owning a dog... The boxers are known for there jumping up in peoples arms literally whole body off the ground like here catch this lol


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: I just didn't want to get people thinking that i wasn't doing my homework or that i was totally ignorant to the responsibilities of owning a dog... The boxers are known for there jumping up in peoples arms literally whole body off the ground like here catch this lol










I know I get that, it's why you are on the site. And that's great. And boxer's can be a challenge, I know that.

This is really, for me, almost more of a 'time' issue for a family with young children and their first GSD puppy. Because I believe many of our GSD pups really do need that extra time the first year for socialization OUTSIDE THE HOME, tons of exercise OUTSIDE THE HOME/YARD, and training in dog classes with a great trainer (helps forcing the time and socialization when you signed up for classes).


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: These GSD's are somekind of nuts with the having to use their mouths when wanting to play with us. And it's extremely painful for me as an adult


Exactly!!! I've gotten all kinds of little nips and bruises as well as had my lip split by over-excited GSD puppies. I can deal with it and I work with them but I'm 5'8" and dog savvy. It can be really hard on little kids and happens irrespective of the dogs' intelligence except as several of us have said that being more intelligent may make it more likely because high intelligence often goes with high energy. 

I've fostered Pits and Boxers and I know what you mean about their feet and tendency to jump all over the place. GSDs have kind of a different style but can be just as problematic in their own way. 

I think your best bet is going to be an adult GSD that is good with kids - STILL extremely intelligent but past the alligator stage, or a mellower breed of dog.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

they're are no dumb German Shepherds, just dumb owners!!!!!


> Originally Posted By: Carter4I ask this because one of my main reasons for wanting a GSD is there intelligence. Thats why i was wondering if my luck in choosing a puppy could it be possible to get a pup that can't comprehend basic commands.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

German shepherds are the geniuses of the dog world. A 'dumb' shepherd is still way above average doggy intelligence! As everyone else has pointed out, they can be a LOT of work, especially in the early months and even years.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

wtf are you talking about?????


> Originally Posted By: Carter4well i said dumb but difficult seems like a more suitable word. I have a 4 year old daughter and a 1 year old son the son is fearless but my daughter hates being scratched so i will have to teach down and no jumping quickly


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i find German Shepherds to be push botton when it comes to anything.


> Originally Posted By: Cassidys MomGerman shepherds are the geniuses of the dog world. A 'dumb' shepherd is still way above average doggy intelligence! As everyone else has pointed out, they can be a LOT of work, especially in the early months and even years.


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## shadow mum (Apr 8, 2008)

As "Mum" to a 16 week old pup, a 7 yr old daughter and a 5 yr old son, I can only agree with what the other people on this board are advising you. I have had Shadow since he was 10 weeks old. In this time, we've had torn jeans as he latched on the the knee, 3 torn skirts from my daughter that he grabbed while walking, and my son has had quite a few good nips. (none broke skin, but left a few colorful bruises). As well as my hands are full of little puppy nibbles, as are my husbands. None of this was Shadow being aggressive, but was Shadow being a puppy. A lot of work and time has been spent with Shadow, and my children, teaching that they are above him in the order of things. He doesn't jump up as much anymore, and the kids both carry nylobones to distract him with when he mouths. Both children now participate in our home training sessions, and things are gradually improving.

I would NEVER consider getting a pup while I had a 1yr old. All it takes is the pup being playful, and your back being turned for a split second. You can't be everywhere at once, and the potential is there for someone, either your children or your pup to be hurt, all this not taking into account the amount of time required for training and socialization.

I know you said you've had other breeds before from pups and know what you're getting into. But I have to ask if you had these pups at the same time as a baby. 

Please consider adopting an older dog, and wait for the pup until your children are a bit older.

Just my 2 cents.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys MomGerman shepherds are the geniuses of the dog world. A 'dumb' shepherd is still way above average doggy intelligence! As everyone else has pointed out, they can be a LOT of work, especially in the early months and even years.


i've never found it to be a lot of work raising a GSD. they are so easy to train. i call it push botton training. my training method is short sessions 4 or 5 times a day and one thing at a time. i just don't find it hard and nor have i had a dog that was hard to train.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Mine, now big, protective, well-triained and intelligent.

Of course a few issues along the way, but my GSD was the best dog I have ever had, even as a pup. I will add because I am retired I was able to spend a lot of time with the dog.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:I would NEVER consider getting a pup while I had a 1yr old. All it takes is the pup being playful, and your back being turned for a split second. You can't be everywhere at once, and the potential is there for someone, either your children or your pup to be hurt, all this not taking into account the amount of time required for training and socialization.


Well said Shadow Mum


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## Evska (Feb 6, 2020)

carter4 said:


> I ask this because one of my main reasons for wanting a GSD is there intelligence. Thats why i was wondering if my luck in choosing a puppy could it be possible to get a pup that can't comprehend basic commands.


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## Evska (Feb 6, 2020)

Unfortunately they can


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Post is 12 years old.


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## crittersitter (Mar 31, 2011)

No, I've never met a dumb GSD. Just lots of uninformed people that get them and don't realize how challenging the breed can be (in part because they are so darned SMART). You have to get smart too and spend a good deal of time with them to exercise and train them properly. They are not an easy breed but there's no other dog I'd rather have.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Post is 12 years old.


And the OP hasn't posted anything since 2016.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

I think you may be confusing intelligence with the character of a German Shepherd. They do not see the sense of doing silly things to please an owner. They think about what you are asking them to do, then decide whether it's something necessary for them to do. Think of yourself as their herd. They will herd you and others. They will protect their 'herd'. They will sit at the door waiting to be sure no predators are coming. They will wait for you to do your part of the relationship they have with you. For example, mine wait patiently while I get their dinner watching every move I make. They will 'help' you - for example, mine bring me my shoes so we can go out. I've had dumb dogs (a lab that was dumb as a bag of hammers) but there is a difference between a dog that will not pick up a toy on command because he has no clue what a toy is or what to do with it and a dog that chooses not to play with you because it serves no purpose to him. 

I agree - a young adult shelter dog might be best for you. People turn them in because they have grown out of being a cute, cuddly puppy, or gotten too big for their home, too rough with their children, they are inept at training, etc. At least you know what you are getting. Housebreaking is usually either already done, or easy to teach. We have Baby Huey - he's not rough or destructive, just big and clumsy. At 90 lbs the shelter thought he was 2 years old but they were wrong. All puppies are mouthy, it's how they explore their world. With correction and distraction it goes away. Children need to be taught to respect the dog and NEVER tease them. The dog is their best friend, not something to abuse. If you allow your children to abuse a dog that is your fault, not the dog.

You are wise to learn the characteristics of a breed before getting one. I wish more people would.


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## GSD246 (Jan 17, 2012)

I have a extra stubborn one. Repeat commands, nope, just did that. Want me to do it again? K, but the pay has changed. Puppy push ups turned into some sort of burpee hybrid as we mixed together a set of 5 or 6 commands. Did it wrong in agility, better go do something else before going back to it. Luckily she wasn't that picky at trials. 

I thought all gsds were like this but they aren't. Kaya my 4 month old puppy is happy to repeat. Don't expect her to fetch. Nether of my shepherds like fetch. They only kind of like tug. She does have the whole mouthy thing going on. I thought her how to be mouthy with me and then how to turned it off. When it's off she goes lick crazy. It's very as she really wants to nip. I can just see her having to mental adjust herself. It's going to get easier for her.


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## Scoobdue2 (Dec 3, 2019)

carter4 said:


> I ask this because one of my main reasons for wanting a GSD is there intelligence. Thats why i was wondering if my luck in choosing a puppy could it be possible to get a pup that can't comprehend basic commands.


Lol, this is such a funny but real topic.


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