# 5 Months - Getting nervous about ears



## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

So I've tried to remain patient, but I'm getting nervous about our boy'a ears. He was born May 10, so he was 5 months on October 10 - he's 23 weeks tomorrow. His ears have done some up and down, and one is doing pretty well thought it lays on his head most of the time. The other has gone up in the past but now it usually just flops over and has developed a fold. His canines aren't fully in, though they're more than halfway Id say, and he did lose a tooth last week. 

We tried molefoam on that ear last week, but it was too heavy for the ear, and didn't really hold it up - just kind of stuck out to the side. As it was coming off, it actually held the ear down more I think. All of his siblings' ears are up, as are his parents and all ancestors we know of. He gets gelatin and lots of marrow bones. Sometimes they will both be up during play/when he wakes up. 

We're not sure what to do at this point. We can't get breathe right strips here. We got a similar product, but they're shorter and not as strong. We haven't used them yet since the ear is a little red from taking the foam out. We also considered gluing the ears together. 

Am I jumping the gun - should I leave them alone? Does gluing together or using the nose strips sound like a better idea? Did we mess it up even more with the mole foam? It was on for less than a week.

I'm attaching a picture showing them both up a few weeks ago when he was staying at my mother in laws (they were up most of the time he was there, maybe because he was less relaxed?) and a pic from today showing them down.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

Here's the photos - first is the one from my mother-in-law's house with his ears up, second is the one from today, third is from a few weeks ago just showing how his ears look most of the time.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

are you feeding extra calcium?


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

No supplement - we were warned that it could settle in his joints. That said, he does get a tablespoon of yogurt every day or so.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

in my opinion the second picture , taken today , concerns me because the dog's right ear looks like it has been mucked up with attempts to have it erect . It looks like cartilage damage . If your sponges and strips irritate the dog he can get in to violent head shaking and ear kicking and then you are looking at damage from an ear hematoma.

you said " both up a few weeks ago when he was staying at my mother in laws (they were up most of the time he was there, maybe because he was less relaxed?)" which was opposite to how I saw the dog's expression because I saw him at his MOST relaxed in that picture and most anxious in today's shot.

I know he has had eating issues and pooping issues and nerve issues in socilizing him .

Diet wise I would make sure he has the best clean , most bioavailable protein . Previously you said raw was too expensive - so feed a raw egg and more of that yogurt or better yet kefir.

Lean doesn't mean deprived. Gather your bones and make a very dense concentrated bone broth.
Add real sources of natural vitamin C . Protein, bone broth , vitamin C are cartilage and ligament stimulating.

Then there is the dog's attitude . Stop looking at him in disappointed critical judgement . He looks to be a sensitive sort . Are the ears that important ? 
Take him out get him well socialized , trained with a positive attitude and reward for his attempts at being a good boy.
Never mind the general public asking about the ears or over hearing comments questioning his being a purebred. 

work on what matters.

I would leave the ears .


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## csmith4313 (Jul 22, 2015)

He seems like a sensitive pup. He is picking up on your disappointment of him. Love him for who he is. Ears or no ears. My Samuel was very sick and malnourished when we got him. All we did was give him ear massages. Which he loved. His ears were huge and stood straight up in no time.

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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

Thank you both for taking the time to reply, I truly appreciate it.

Carmspack, the molefoam was only in his ear for 4 days, and he didn't notice it at all, so I'm not sure how much damage could have been done. I went back and looked at pictures right before we put it in and the ear looks pretty much exactly the same (I'm attaching before and after pictures). However, I agree that the ear does look odd, and did before the foam. He often sleeps with his ears smushed up against the side of his crate. It's a huge crate and he has plenty of room not to do this, it just seems to be his preferred way of sleeping. Do you think that could have done damage to it? If so, is there any way to prevent this?

As to the pictures, don't get me wrong, he likes being at my Mother in Laws, he just is more on edge there than at home because she has two other dogs (kept separate from him) and he spends most of the time there running around checking on what each person is doing because it's a big house - I thought that attitude might contribute to keeping his ears up. He may also look relaxed in that picture because he was a bit lethargic. When we picked him up he was sick - a full day at the vet later, he had kennel cough (from a vet visit the week before) and a stomach virus. He bounced back personality wise in a day, but he was on a special diet until a couple days ago, and he's still on antibiotics. Now that his stomach is better we will go back to doing an egg every day and continuing with the yogurt. I'll also add in the bone broth. His past eating issues went away once we switched him to Farmina. Now Fresh just didn't work for him.

In the picture from yesterday, he is a bit anxious. His past nervousness largely just went away one day just like it appeared, so I still believe it was mostly a stage that I got nervous about because our past trainer acted so dramatically about it. He's back to ignoring or playing with other dogs now and ignoring when walking past on the leash. The issue we're working on is his guarding when we're sitting in one place like a restaurant. We do it a lot now to practice, and he gets a treat when another dog walks past and he ignores them, and he's doing well with it. That said, he's still pretty alert and edgy during these times, which is why we continue to work at it, and this is when the photo was snapped. I'm really proud of his progress though. 

It's funny how pictures appear, because in our home environment, and any environment he's comfortable in (like the park) he's the least sensitive dog I've ever had. He's smart and silly and playful, but I do think he photographs looking sad or sensitive, always has.

As to looking at him critically or disappointedly, this dog is like our golden child. We love every minute with him and he's the subject of almost constant praise, pets, and loving. I'm not disappointed in him because of his ears - it's not like I think he's holding his ears down purposely or something - it's out of his control. It's purely an aesthetic issue separate from my feelings about our boy himself.

Are the ears important? Kind of, yeah. Like most people, we got a GSD for a lot of reasons - trainability, intelligence, and also we like the look of a GSD. If we didn't care about these things, there are plenty of sweet shelter dogs in this city we could have gotten. That said, it's not like we would ever get rid of our boy because his ears didn't go up - they're just ears. We're just confused as to why they aren't and looking for some guidance on that, especially when his siblings' are up, and we know that there's a window of opportunity for gluing/taping. They seemed like they were going to go up a couple weeks ago, and now they don't at all. We don't want to look back and think we could have helped his ears to stand and didn't when we had he chance. There's a whole section in the forum devoted to ears going up so I don't think I'm the only one who feels like this.

I really just want to know what someone with experience with this thinks about the prospect of his ears going up at this age, when is the best time to take action (because I've seen a lot of conflicting info), and if people recommend nose strips over gluing the ears together or vice versa. If anyone can weigh in on these issues I'd be super grateful.

I will definitely add in the vitamin C and bone broth to his diet and see if I can find kefir over the yogurt, thanks for the suggestion. Csmith I'll try some ear massages too, thanks


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)




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## csmith4313 (Jul 22, 2015)

I found a picture of Samuel at 5 months he still had some floppyness. Don't loose hope. Also we massaged at the base of the ear. Vet said this helped with blood flow.

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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

csmith4313 said:


> I found a picture of Samuel at 5 months he still had some floppyness. Don't loose hope. Also we massaged at the base of the ear. Vet said this helped with blood flow.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk




Aw thank you! He's such a cutie! I will definitely start with the massages!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have a pair of 5 month old puppies. The one had her ears both up for a month or two and the other hand 1 up and one down until about a week ago and both are like ramrods now. Their brother still has one half up, and the other is up.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

selzer said:


> I have a pair of 5 month old puppies. The one had her ears both up for a month or two and the other hand 1 up and one down until about a week ago and both are like ramrods now. Their brother still has one half up, and the other is up.




Ah that's encouraging thank you so much! There may be hope after all 

Did the down ear look similar to ours? I feel like two weeks ago it looked like it was going to go up, and would go up occasionally, and now it looks like a lab's ear - kind of hopeless looking!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I was worried about her ear going up. Did it look like yours, yeah..no..maybe. 

I suggest giving your dog some raw bones to work on and not worry too much about it. It will go up if it is going to. If not, it will not change his character at all. I think we have much more trouble with the ears than we should.

I do have a young male, 2 year old, with one ear up and one down. I hardly ever notice it. It makes his looks stand out a little, but not really in a negative way.

Now that both girls have theirs up, well, it's hard to tell which one is Sherry and which is Sherah. I have to look at their collars. One is lighter in the face and the other is larger in body, or is it the light in face is larger in body. Wait, Sherah has the lighter face and Sherry has the smaller body. But they are almost identical.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

selzer said:


> I was worried about her ear going up. Did it look like yours, yeah..no..maybe.
> 
> I suggest giving your dog some raw bones to work on and not worry too much about it. It will go up if it is going to. If not, it will not change his character at all. I think we have much more trouble with the ears than we should.
> 
> ...




Haha aw yeah that would be difficult! I've increased the amount of raw bones we're giving him - he wasn't getting them for a while because of a special diet but he's back to normal now  
You're right, I should relax. I just see people saying that 5 months is when you should take action so I didn't want to miss the window. Thanks for responding!


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

So I dont normally suggest rawhide, but he needs to do a lot of chewing to strengthen the ear muscles. Give him some long lasting chews like rawhide for a couple of weeks and other chew toys in his crate. Also, take him out for night time walks, they are more alert at night and like to "point" their ears at strange noises and things so it will also strengthen the ear muscles. Don't touch the ears and dont let anyone touch them. They should stand up in a month or so if you use my method every day. 6 months or so is really pushing it so I would get on with it asap.
Hope this helps
and by the way he looks like a great pup, I would take him in a heartbeat regardless of the ears standing or not. The ears are the least of my concerns when it comes to dogs.
Good luck.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

Thank you Julian! He is a great pup - a total weirdo sometimes (our favorite weirdo), but he cracks us up every day  We truly wouldn't trade him for all the up ears in the world, but like I said, we just want to help them along if we can.

I will pick up some solid rawhide chews today and just watch him closely when he has them. Now that the sun's setting earlier many of our walks/park time are in the dark, and I'll make sure to aim for that time. It used to be that both ears would often be up during those walks, but now the weak one doesn't seem to go up almost at all, except when he first wakes up from naps during the day. It's weird.

Thanks a bunch for all the tips - we'll make sure he does a ton of chewing this month!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am not sure about raw hide. The glue in them can be hard on a dog's stomach. Raw bones have calcium that the dog requires in the teething process and it will perfectly balance the calciumhosphorus ratio, so you don't need to worry about that.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I thought that cartilage doesn't have blood? I'd be careful with massages; you can also do damage. I would leave it alone. Did he have surgery? Based on the shaved inner leg?


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

Selzer - I'm going to keep giving him the bones each day, but he usually strips them in about half a day and then kind of loses interest, so I'm going to just give him the rawhide chew at that time. While he could chew all day, he's not that "destructive" of a chewer - he has a rawhide strip and he never actually chews any pieces off of it. I saw today that there was blood on one of his chew toys again, so I guess the teething process is still going on. 
I'm also going to ask the butcher about chicken feet in the next couple days, so maybe I can start feeding those as well.

Wolfy - I've just been very gently massaging the bases a bit - I think Moms includes that in her ears up tips that she posts. No folding the ears or anything.
He had an IV last week because he was vomiting/diarrhea with a stomach bug and wound up dehydrated. He's just finishing the antibiotics from that tomorrow and goes into the vet for a follow up on Friday. The past few days he's been back to his regular diet + raw egg and yogurt. 

Some good news - his soft ear was up about 1/3 of the day today - he looked like such a grownup! Back down now though before bed, and when I was petting him I noticed the fold is somewhat pronounced on the inside. I'm not sure if that means it can't go up for good, as I've seen some people say that. 

Thanks everyone for all the help - really I truly appreciate it! 











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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

From that photo, it looks like it will go up.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you say the ears don't matter but you obsess about them.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Their ears also tend to fall over when pups are tired.


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## WembleyDogsUK (Jul 13, 2016)

Myself, I'd blame diet first of all, should be more cartilage in his diet, raw pig ears, chicken feet, etc. Judging by your photographs i have noticed that your pup has a very narrow chest. Does he run a lot in the fields, parks or woods? Chase cats or squirrels? Joking. Maybe, there's not much exciting in his life for neuroimpulse to come through.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

Selzer - thanks, that's good to hear! 

Carmspack - I said the ears do matter, just not more than the dog as a whole. Obviously the only thing I'm going to talk about on this thread is his ears.

Wolfy - he had a busy day so that makes sense!

Wembly - I'm going to ask about the chicken feet tomorrow at the butcher. No raw pig ears available in Israel  I do give him the dried pig ears from time to time. He was on a bland diet for a while but now back to normal.

I notice that about his chest as well. He runs off leash at the park or beach ever day at least 45 minutes (lots of bird chasing - working on avoiding cat chasing, since Tel Aviv street cats are not creatures you want to mess with)! We also try to get in some swimming as much as possible and hiking on some weekends. This is on top of his leash walks/training/play. I'm not sure how to make his life more exciting! :/ I've noticed his muscle building in his hindquarters, but less in his chest.





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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Based on the picture of him younger, I can tell you his ears will stand. I was going to post it yesterday, but didn't like the fold in his right ear. They will stand sooner if you stop worrying about them....trust me.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

Thank you Cliffson that's so encouraging to read!
You're right - I'm just going to keep supplementing his diet, make sure he has a lot to chew on, and take him to exciting places, and then just let the ears do what they will.
I just felt that with the fold being so pronounced and his age, it might be time to help it out a little with some nasal strips, but since no one seems to think that's necessary, I think we'll forgo it.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If he gets a good quality food you don't want to mess it up by adding supplements. They do more harm than good. I doubt that feeding him cartilage will send the cartilage to his ears .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> If he gets a good quality food you don't want to mess it up by adding supplements. They do more harm than good. I doubt that feeding him cartilage will send the cartilage to his ears .


Cartilage is the source for natural chondroitin and glucosamine.

It is why we boil the heck out of bones with cartilage and condoyles - (necks and shanks)
ears , skin, snouts . making bone broth concentrations

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171543/

real vitamin C supports collagen integrity.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

We took Klaus to his first dog show here today, and we got to meet a lot of cool German Shepherd people - breeders/trainers/vets. 

A few people approached us about his ears, and all of them said basically what you all have said - give him a month and lots to chew on, and it should be fine. If for some reason it was not in a couple months, we got the contact info for a vet who is experienced with ear taping for GSDs. 

Ears aside, the show was a great experience, and it was amazing to see so many beautiful GSDs in one place. Klaus was a bit nervous with so many dogs barking, but he did really well, and we relaxed a lot in the shade just watching. He also got to see his mom, which was not at all the emotional reunion Disney movies lead you to believe it will be. 

We got some terrible news though that his father died from a snake bite a couple weeks ago. He was a really handsome and cool GSD in our opinion (I'm attaching a couple pictures), so we're sad about that. 

On a more positive note, thanks again all of you. We're just going to let time and nature do their thing 
















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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

So we finally gave in and took Klaus to the vet recommended at the dog show to look at his ears. He recommended that we tape them and he did it for us. Klaus doesn't seem to mind at all, no head shaking, just tried to itch once initially then let it go. 

However - we've already gotten some nasty looks and a rude comment about how we're "perpetuating animal cruelty". I guess it's likely some (uninformed) people with no experience with the breed think we cropped his ears I guess, which is illegal here, but the person who made the comment kept on even after we told her they were just taped. Kind of surprised to see such a spirited reaction. 

Anyways, the vet said to leave them taped for three weeks and we go back in every 5-7 days for him to check them. Gonna be a fun three weeks :/ I get to work on my getting a thicker skin I suppose!

Here's hoping it works, though! 











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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Just tell people he's under a vet's care and this is what the vet did. If they ask what happened just say you don't want to talk about it. It's not their business anyway. *S*


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

We untaped Klaus' right ear yesterday, and both are standing up! His weaker ear has been up since Wednesday, the vet was just trying to fix the angle on the stronger one. 

The ears are still a bit soft so they bounce a bit when he runs, but they're standing! I was told the cartilage would harden a bit now that the tape is off. 

Still giving him lots of bones, eggs, chicken necks, yogurt and good food. 

Here's some before during and after taping photos: 


























We had just taken the tape off his right ear there so it's a little wrinkled but that smoothed out overnight. So that's the conclusion (hopefully!) to this thread!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Good! Beautiful! He looks great! It can take quite some time for them to stiffen and they might never, but as long as they are up.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Good! Beautiful! He looks great! It can take quite some time for them to stiffen and they might never, but as long as they are up.




Thank you! I'm very happy with how they turned out even if they don't stiffen. I never knew I could be so proud of a pair of ears lol


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

telavivgsd said:


> Thank you! I'm very happy with how they turned out even if they don't stiffen. I never knew I could be so proud of a pair of ears lol


LOL! I don't know if it is a show line thing or what but IME, their ears seem to come up later creating lots of worry.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> LOL! I don't know if it is a show line thing or what but IME, their ears seem to come up later creating lots of worry.




I could see that - generally it seems like their ears are bigger and the leather heavier, a lot of the working line puppies I see have their ears up from the start! Lucky dogs


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

He is looking great! So glad you were able to get them up.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

Deb said:


> He is looking great! So glad you were able to get them up.




Thank you so much! We're really happy about it


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I know in the end it doesn't matter but I am always relieved when ears stand (except when you have a breed that is supposed to have floppy ears). It is one of their trade marks. They look like a complete different breed when they are not up.
He looks pretty nice.


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

wolfy dog said:


> I know in the end it doesn't matter but I am always relieved when ears stand (except when you have a breed that is supposed to have floppy ears). It is one of their trade marks. They look like a complete different breed when they are not up.
> He looks pretty nice.




Thank you, I feel exactly the same. I feel like I stole someone else's dog or something - he looks so different now! It truly wouldn't have mattered to how we feel about him, but I am happy it worked.


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