# Finally found a good class for my dog!



## tim_s_adams

I have been searching for some time now for a group class that would be a good fit for my dog and I, because I think it would be a good experience for her to work in an enclosed space with other people and dogs around. But, as I've mentioned in other threads, all the "trainers" I've contacted refused to let me come and observe a class prior to signing up. 

So I decided to keep searching. A couple weeks ago I spoke at length with Brian Bergford of Altitude Dog Training. Great guy, great reviews, author of several books on training. But he didn't have a group class (advanced obedience) running or scheduled currently, so he happily recommended others. One of them, the most economical, was the local Humane Society. 

Skeptically I gave them a call...and came away very pleasantly surprised! Their classes are very reasonably priced, their trainers have impressive experience, and they offer a HUGE variety in terms of options to fit their client's needs. I spoke with the trainer of what they call their ACES + class this morning, and she was happy to add me to their mailing list so I could come and observe them in action! Today was "supposed" to be the day for me to go see what their program is all about, but since it is a drop-in class they don't have it unless they get 4-5 confirmed attendees, and today they didn't...

But I'm excited to observe a class and get started! Just have to teach Nyx a "place" command this week in preparation... Didn't really have a need before, but they use it in class so I do now!

Anyone else take their dog to their local HS for obedience training? We're you happy with the result?


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## Steve Strom

Just use her down stay.


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## Orphan Heidi

That's great, Tim.

I haven't used the Humane Society but I learned when I adopted Heidi last month that the county shelter (where I got

her) has an Obedience Class once a week on Sat. mornings- drop in and free. They said they want to promote all their 

to attend to eleminate returned dogs. I thought it was a great idea. Keep us posted when you do go.

PS/ Can you tell me what teaching "place" means? Thanks.


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## dogma13

When I used to live in a large city the HM society had programs like that.Several of the local trainers participated.Enjoy your class!


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## tim_s_adams

Orphan Heidi said:


> PS/ Can you tell me what teaching "place" means? Thanks.


My understanding is that "place" is taught to mean go to a specific spot and remain there until released. Most of the time, from what I've seen, a mat or a dog bed is used. And the dog can sit or lay down or stand, it doesn't matter as long as they remain on the spot indicated.

We started on it today...always fun to have something new to teach!


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## GSDchoice

I have a funny story about “Place”. I signed up for group K9 manners with Rumo and they sent me a big long email to confirm, which of course I didn’t read. The night before class, I opened it and read it and it said to bring a baggie of treats and a lightweight portable mat to carry under your arm, for training Place.

I was like, whoops! What can I use? I grabbed our bathMat, loaded Rumo and ran to class. Every week we trained Place with the bathMat.
When the class ended, I put the bathMat back in our bathroom. 

Now every night when I brush my teeth, Rumo walks in and lies down on the bathMat!! 
He is like, “ I remember that she was happy when I did this...this feels right...”
Sometimes he falls asleep there. I think it’s funny that he still thinks he is supposed to lie there...

I am sure you and Nix will be at the top of your class!! You will probably be giving training demos...


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## tim_s_adams

For our "place" training today I used a blanket that I used to use in the car to help keep the seat clean when Nyx got muddy or wet. Anyway, to keep her from getting the idea that it meant a specific spot, I moved the blanket to different spots around the house. To be fair, she doesn't yet truly get it. But her down and or sit stay are impeccable, so once in "place" I could walk away for several minutes, totally out of sight, and she'd remain where she was...but that really isn't the correct concept! We'll keep working though...today she stayed in whatever position I left her in until released...gotta figure out how to let her know that changing positions, while staying on the blanket is okay...I love teaching new things, it tires both of is out so we sleep better >


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## Sabis mom

I use "mat" instead of place, and I teach it so it means two different things depending on where we are. Tim this may help you out. If I say it at home it means go to the mat by the door and remain there. If I say it while travelling or attending something it refers to a blanket/towel/jacket that I then drop on the ground and I want them to stay with it. 
Glad you found a class you like, someday I will have a dog that I can do stuff with. :laugh2: Then I guess I will have to take classes since I promised Carmen I would put an obedience title on my next one.


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## car2ner

I used old bed pillows for these exercises. I'd say Pillow and both of my dogs would lay on one to get a treat. Then I got a new toy and called it Piccolo. We have a larger version we called flute. I told the dogs to "go find Piccolo" and they went to their pillows! Guess that name for a toy didn't work. 

In the class I took my gal-dog to, they provided raised platforms. They use the platforms for a number of things. I'd think a mat of some sort could be very handy for travel. No matter where you go you can have your "placemat".


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## Jenny720

I remember place or I use spot was the first thing we learned in class then focus exercises. I used a bathroom mat it rolled up and resembled a rug. Place can come in handy. If -not if -but when max is begging to much at the table I tell him to go to his spot. 
Bring good treats. In the beginning I would bring dog treats- to max’s class then made it more fun with cut up mozzarella sticks, chicken, hotdogs, pieces of Stella’s dehydrated beef patties.


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## Heartandsoul

Just my 2cents, but for the class setting, and while you're training the concept, you might want to use one specific matt for the Place command at first. The matt will be easier to lug around and stay neat and in place while in use. I think your "down" command will be perfectly acceptable in class while your working on the "place".

once you succeed, could you share how you taught the concept of place as opposed to the stay and/or the down. The only thing I can think of is using the absence of a correction when she is on the matt and gets up but stays on the matt as opposed to actually coming off the matt that's why I'd love to know how you achieve it.


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## Pytheis

Hey, Tim, I work at LHS. I do have to say, I love our trainers. I was expecting them to be a "positive only" crowd when I first started work, but nope! They are really good with animals, very willing to listen and work with each dog individually, and they aren't opposed to training collars to TEACH dogs. They don't use them as a crutch. I have seen them handle some terrifying dogs (meaning dogs with a lot of bites in their past) and been very impressed. Can you PM me which trainer you are actually planning on meeting with? There are a few that run their own classes. Maybe I will see you around.


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## tim_s_adams

Heartandsoul said:


> Just my 2cents, but for the class setting, and while you're training the concept, you might want to use one specific matt for the Place command at first. The matt will be easier to lug around and stay neat and in place while in use. I think your "down" command will be perfectly acceptable in class while your working on the "place".
> 
> once you succeed, could you share how you taught the concept of place as opposed to the stay and/or the down. The only thing I can think of is using the absence of a correction when she is on the matt and gets up but stays on the matt as opposed to actually coming off the matt that's why I'd love to know how you achieve it.


Update: Unfortunately the class has been cancelled each week for the month I've been following it...So I'm less sure now than I was initially! The good news is that Nyx is now pretty solid on the "place" command. And since you asked how I did it, I thought I'd explain a little. 

Not too different than you might have envisioned, but I don't think a dog learns much from the absence of a correction. So instead, I preemptively caught her before she could lay down with a positive marker, for her it's "good", then quickly offer a treat/reward. Nyx already was pretty solid on down stay, sit stay, and stand stay, so she still doesn't change position once I've marked it. But at least she seems to get that down is not a requirement...So we're making progress! As time goes on, I'll try to wait her out to see if she really gets the concept of staying on the mat versus staying in whatever position I marked...But so far, I haven't waited long enough...we've practiced long stays too much I guess LOL!


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## Apex1

Seems like you, Tim, might have plateaued with obedience. You have done great with her, just maintaining now, while you still have bunny work, maybe you could adopt one lol....idk if you have done nose work. I see it mentioned many times in the dog park thread. That isn't my angle other than to say you really seem to like to work your dog....nose work is amazing imo, my dog loves it, can be consumed by it and it is a healthy fulfilling exercise for dog and owner. You can build long tracks it is so impressive to see how long your dog will and can commit to a track. Not that you don't know...I've just not seen you say that you actively work Nxy in nose work.


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## Heartandsoul

tim_s_adams said:


> Update: Unfortunately the class has been cancelled each week for the month I've been following it...So I'm less sure now than I was initially! The good news is that Nyx is now pretty solid on the "place" command. And since you asked how I did it, I thought I'd explain a little.
> 
> Not too different than you might have envisioned, but I don't think a dog learns much from the absence of a correction. So instead, I preemptively caught her before she could lay down with a positive marker, for her it's "good", then quickly offer a treat/reward. Nyx already was pretty solid on down stay, sit stay, and stand stay, so she still doesn't change position once I've marked it. But at least she seems to get that down is not a requirement...So we're making progress! As time goes on, I'll try to wait her out to see if she really gets the concept of staying on the mat versus staying in whatever position I marked...But so far, I haven't waited long enough...we've practiced long stays too much I guess LOL!


Thanks for the update. With my guy and in my own mind, the place command serves a purpose in that the dog knows that place specifies a specific item he or she is to get on and not leave no matter the position, but the down and stay or sit and stay were the commands taught first so when I taught the place command he deferred to the down once he was in the place. I never could figure out how to relay to him that it was ok to move though he does reposition while laying down. So it was good enough for me. Lol. (imo that seems like a good way to differentiate what is expected of the place command, as opposed to the down, sit, stay command that indicates "right where you are"). 

Since you may have an interest in scent work, this is an NACSW link of certified instructors in the US. Search Instructors | NACSW. If you go back to Home, there is a link of vids at different levels. If interested, you may find an instructor/class near you. It's a fun sport and you'll be among many like minded people. And you will probably connect with more experienced handlers, retired K9 officers, etc. Also, a lot of the instructors are also involved with the other scent work sports so if this venue doesn't fit you and your girl, the people you meet will probably know of the other sports/organizations also.

I'm not as social as you but I have a couple of friends who I met through the sport and have a lot of fun practicing with and the huge plus, my guy loves it. 

Ok ramble over. Thanks for the insight and update.


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## tim_s_adams

@Heartandsoul, I appreciate the link...actually found 2 classes nearby and ordered the birch scent kit this morning!
@apex, in my mind we're nowhere near plateaued on obedience, but thanks for the thought! Her off-leash heel is passable for practical purposes, but not good enough yet for competition by any means! She still creeps a bit at times going into a stand from any other position (gonna build her a box for this), she only spins one direction, doesn't know how to wave or high five, ...always lots more to do!


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## Heartandsoul

That's great. Honestly, the sport has help tremendously with my guys DA and for me social connectivity. Tons of extra perks participating in any organized sport.


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## tim_s_adams

Update: we attended 2 classes. Nyx was a perfect lady, showed no interest at all in the other dogs and maintained great focus. All in all I'm very glad we did it! But I don't think we'll continue since they didn't do or teach anything useful. It was pretty basic stuff - heeling in a ring around the room, downing or sitting out of motion, blind recalls (where the handler is out of sight of the dog), some limited parquor kinds of things (climbing up on various objects), and a little bit of heeling between the legs. Anyway, fun stuff, but nothing new. 

I have been introducing Nyx to Nosework this past week and wow is she a natural! Of course I'm an absolute novice so I'm sure I bungled stuff. Like having her find a hidden scent box without having taught her how to show me she found it! I also tried to get her to find multiple hides in a room, which she clearly didn't get. But we're having great fun and learning together, so it's all good. 

I bought the "student scent kit" for around 15 dollars with shipping (https://k9nwsource.com/shop/student-starter-kit/ ), but when the package arrived it was not what I'd ordered! No scent at all...it was 5 large scent boxes and 5 smaller ones, in Christmas red and green colors! The vendor told me to just keep them and rushed me my scent kit, which was really nice because the kit only came with 1 scent box, but now I have 11 of them to work with! We've worked mostly indoors so far, but the box that came with the kit has a magnet so we'll be working on vehicle searches next week! 

Anyway, just wanted to thank you guys again for prodding me to get started with NW, Nyx is really enjoying it!


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## GypsyGhost

tim_s_adams said:


> Update: we attended 2 classes. Nyx was a perfect lady, showed no interest at all in the other dogs and maintained great focus. All in all I'm very glad we did it! But I don't think we'll continue since they didn't do or teach anything useful. It was pretty basic stuff - heeling in a ring around the room, downing or sitting out of motion, blind recalls (where the handler is out of sight of the dog), some limited parquor kinds of things (climbing up on various objects), and a little bit of heeling between the legs. Anyway, fun stuff, but nothing new.
> 
> I have been introducing Nyx to Nosework this past week and wow is she a natural! Of course I'm an absolute novice so I'm sure I bungled stuff. Like having her find a hidden scent box without having taught her how to show me she found it! I also tried to get her to find multiple hides in a room, which she clearly didn't get. But we're having great fun and learning together, so it's all good.
> 
> I bought the "student scent kit" for around 15 dollars with shipping (https://k9nwsource.com/shop/student-starter-kit/ ), but when the package arrived it was not what I'd ordered! No scent at all...it was 5 large scent boxes and 5 smaller ones, in Christmas red and green colors! The vendor told me to just keep them and rushed me my scent kit, which was really nice because the kit only came with 1 scent box, but now I have 11 of them to work with! We've worked mostly indoors so far, but the box that came with the kit has a magnet so we'll be working on vehicle searches next week!
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to thank you guys again for prodding me to get started with NW, Nyx is really enjoying it!


Tim, you have an excellent nosework instructor near you by the name of Dana Zinn. She’s a CO in NACSW, and one of the best there is at that. If you really plan on continuing with this sport, please consider taking classes. The foundation you lay for this sport will determine how much fixing you need to do later. It’s much more fun if you don’t have to do much fixing!


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## tim_s_adams

Thanks Gypsyghost. I looked her up, zinndogtraining.com Unfortunately her facility is pretty far from me, but there are 2 certified instructors close by...I contacted both and am awaiting their responses now.

That being said, I might consider doing a drop in session or 2 to get some pointers, but nosework seems pretty straightforward. I watched the videos on the NACSW website, which shows trials at all levels (which is what prompted me to try Nyx out on multiple hides too soon) but I probably wouldn't have the patience to do their classes... Truthfully I can't imagine what they'd do in a class like that for all that time...it probably centers on teaching people how to read their dogs signals and cautions about alerting too quickly, would be my guess...

Do you do NW with your dogs?


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## GypsyGhost

tim_s_adams said:


> Thanks Gypsyghost. I looked her up, zinndogtraining.com Unfortunately her facility is pretty far from me, but there are 2 certified instructors close by...I contacted both and am awaiting their responses now.
> 
> That being said, I might consider doing a drop in session or 2 to get some pointers, but nosework seems pretty straightforward. I watched the videos on the NACSW website, which shows trials at all levels (which is what prompted me to try Nyx out on multiple hides too soon) but I probably wouldn't have the patience to do their classes... Truthfully I can't imagine what they'd do in a class like that for all that time...it probably centers on teaching people how to read their dogs signals and cautions about alerting too quickly, would be my guess...
> 
> Do you do NW with your dogs?


It seems easy and straightforward until it isn’t, lol. 

Yes, I do nosework with all of my dogs. I’m currently laying a foundation on the 4th dog I’ve started in the sport. I’ve been taking advanced classes for about 4 years. I learn something new literally every week, because I have an amazing instructor and classmates who are just as competitive with their dogs as I am with mine. It takes a while to become proficient at handling, where your leash work is effortless and you aren’t potentially blocking odor or talking your dog into alerting where no odor is present. It also takes a while to figure out the best way to support your dog. This is outside of getting your dog proficient on odor and developing strong odor obedience. Then of course there is learning how odor behaves in different environments and different weather conditions. These things I’ve mentioned are all just the basics. There are so many other more nuanced facets to the sport. It really does help to have a good instructor in your corner. I don’t know anyone who trials (in my area) that doesn’t eventually seek out classes. Having someone who understands hide placement set hides for you so both you and your dog can run searches blind is also invaluable as you progress.


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## tim_s_adams

GypsyGhost said:


> It seems easy and straightforward until it isn’t, lol.
> 
> Yes, I do nosework with all of my dogs. I’m currently laying a foundation on the 4th dog I’ve started in the sport. I’ve been taking advanced classes for about 4 years. I learn something new literally every week, because I have an amazing instructor and classmates who are just as competitive with their dogs as I am with mine. It takes a while to become proficient at handling, where your leash work is effortless and you aren’t potentially blocking odor or talking your dog into alerting where no odor is present. It also takes a while to figure out the best way to support your dog. This is outside of getting your dog proficient on odor and developing strong odor obedience. Then of course there is learning how odor behaves in different environments and different weather conditions. These things I’ve mentioned are all just the basics. There are so many other more nuanced facets to the sport. It really does help to have a good instructor in your corner. I don’t know anyone who trials (in my area) that doesn’t eventually seek out classes. Having someone who understands hide placement set hides for you so both you and your dog can run searches blind is also invaluable as you progress.


I get that it gets much more complicated at higher levels. I was really impressed with the handlers and their dogs in the videos. When I said it was "pretty straightforward" I was definitely talking about just the first steps! ORT and NW1 tests. I can't see paying for classes for those. After only a week I'm pretty sure Nyx would easily pass the ORT, and I'm pretty confident that within a few more weeks she'll be ready for the NW1 trial. That being said, I have no clue how to teach some of the higher level skills, so classes for those would make good sense! And I'm looking forward to it! It is a lot of fun, and Nyx seems to really love it. I'm also pretty sure it's much easier to be cocky about it when there's no timer running LOL! I appreciate the info too, thanks!


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## GypsyGhost

tim_s_adams said:


> I get that it gets much more complicated at higher levels. I was really impressed with the handlers and their dogs in the videos. When I said it was "pretty straightforward" I was definitely talking about just the first steps! ORT and NW1 tests. I can't see paying for classes for those. After only a week I'm pretty sure Nyx would easily pass the ORT, and I'm pretty confident that within a few more weeks she'll be ready for the NW1 trial. That being said, I have no clue how to teach some of the higher level skills, so classes for those would make good sense! And I'm looking forward to it! It is a lot of fun, and Nyx seems to really love it. I'm also pretty sure it's much easier to be cocky about it when there's no timer running LOL! I appreciate the info too, thanks!


I mean no disrespect with this, but it would be incredibly difficult to be ready for either an ORT or an NW1 in just a few weeks. Not even with the help of an instructor. My girl is actually quite skilled at nosework, and I’m not a novice handler, and she wasn’t ready to trial for her NW1 until she’d been doing this close to six months. Of course, I wanted (and got) placements for her, so perhaps she could have trialed a bit sooner. But still, this is not something you can expect to have down pat in a week or two. Good luck to you.


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## WateryTart

tim_s_adams said:


> I get that it gets much more complicated at higher levels. I was really impressed with the handlers and their dogs in the videos. When I said it was "pretty straightforward" I was definitely talking about just the first steps! ORT and NW1 tests. I can't see paying for classes for those. After only a week I'm pretty sure Nyx would easily pass the ORT, and I'm pretty confident that within a few more weeks she'll be ready for the NW1 trial. That being said, I have no clue how to teach some of the higher level skills, so classes for those would make good sense! And I'm looking forward to it! It is a lot of fun, and Nyx seems to really love it. I'm also pretty sure it's much easier to be cocky about it when there's no timer running LOL! I appreciate the info too, thanks!


I just put my second NW title on my first dog. She’s not as fast as a lot of the GSDs I’ve seen but she’s good.

We have been taking classes for over two years. I’m a first time handler in the sport, and it was really important to me to learn all I could about putting a foundation on my dog, build her fundamental skills, and ensure that she understands the game and has good odor obedience. More than placements, I care about solid skill and accurate work. And I want my dog to feel confident and have fun. 

That’s before we even get into what the handler needs to learn. I’m nowhere close to as practiced as, say, GypsyGhost when it comes to handling skill and technique, and reading the dog I’m working. I had to learn my dog in a new way, and I had to practice reading her and practice trusting what she was telling me.

All of that requires practice. Many hours of practice. Even if Nyx is a Nosework prodigy, logging the pilot hours will only benefit you both. It will strengthen your bond and build both your skills and hers. It is very much in your best interest to step back, find the certified instructor, and go to class every week and take to heart what they have to say when they coach you.

This sport is so much fun, and I hope you and Nyx will be able to be successful!


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## tim_s_adams

GypsyGhost said:


> I mean no disrespect with this, but it would be incredibly difficult to be ready for either an ORT or an NW1 in just a few weeks. Not even with the help of an instructor. My girl is actually quite skilled at nosework, and I’m not a novice handler, and she wasn’t ready to trial for her NW1 until she’d been doing this close to six months. Of course, I wanted (and got) placements for her, so perhaps she could have trialed a bit sooner. But still, this is not something you can expect to have down pat in a week or two. Good luck to you.


Maybe I'm missing something (wouldn't be a first), but an ORT is simply finding the birch scent in a room with many boxes/containers right?

I did this with Nyx several times tonight. 5 containers, only 1 with birch scent, and she easily identified the correct container 100% of the time. 

When she finds the scent she lays down with the item between her paws. For higher hides, she'll paw, or give me that look, and if that doesn't work she lays down while staring at the target.

Am I missing something important here? I think she'd nail it now...


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## WateryTart

tim_s_adams said:


> Maybe I'm missing something (wouldn't be a first), but an ORT is simply finding the birch scent in a room with many boxes/containers right?
> 
> 
> 
> I did this with Nyx several times tonight. 5 containers, only 1 with birch scent, and she easily identified the correct container 100% of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> When she finds the scent she lays down with the item between her paws. For higher hides, she'll paw, or give me that look, and if that doesn't work she lays down while staring at the target.
> 
> 
> 
> Am I missing something important here? I think she'd nail it now...


Your ORT will be 12 boxes. In a grid. On its face, yes, straightforward. It is also entirely possible that air flow and other environmental factors will change the odor picture and make the actual task less straightforward. Your dog may or may not be more amped up being in a new environment. What helps set you up for success is taking the time to learn and practice with your dog, get used to working her on different odor pictures in different locations and under differing circumstances that make the odor behave in a variety of ways.

Pilot hours.



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## tim_s_adams

WateryTart said:


> Your ORT will be 12 boxes. In a grid. On its face, yes, straightforward. It is also entirely possible that air flow and other environmental factors will change the odor picture and make the actual task less straightforward. Your dog may or may not be more amped up being in a new environment. What helps set you up for success is taking the time to learn and practice with your dog, get used to working her on different odor pictures in different locations and under differing circumstances that make the odor behave in a variety of ways.
> 
> Pilot hours.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, I'll definitely consider taking more time and working in various conditions. I do appreciate the info!

I am a rebel though...so I might just test her now to see...who knows. But I definitely get that differing conditions can effect a dog, so we'll keep working! It is a fun sport!


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## Jenny720

A good foundation is the most important and that is from the very beginning. Instructor can tell you your mistakes on handling and not interfering. The dog is so aware of your presence it is very important. The class has all kind of intricate set ups and at different locations. Learning to ignore crazy distractions and keep on task. Working with a room filled with other dogs and dogs in heat. Hides in water. Often instructors will hold clinics which you do get a lot of information. Ort is a very quick test There have been high level experienced handlers not pass on Ort due to handler error -being to quick to call-alert/. Air currents in the room from heating vents etc. carrying scent from one box to the next. I had to drive 3 and a half hours for Ort so I decide to do all three Orts in one day and practiced with food and toy distractions. Trials are not easy to get in so that takes awhile in itself often a lottery. I have not taken class in awhile but if there is a trial local In future I would try it cold turkey and believe we would do well. It really is a fun sport and the dogs really are intense about it. I like to do scent activity’s for fun so I make sure I have a word reserved only for nosework.


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## cloudpump

Like any trial, most people think it's easy, until its actually done. There are variables in trials that you never think to plan for.


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## WateryTart

Actually I lied on the ORT. I think it’s an array of 15 boxes. 

But I meant to touch on this and forgot: There are also official rules, and rules of etiquette, and conventions and tips/tricks that you learn in a class. You can read the rule book and you can pick up some of it yourself, but if you go to class and listen to your instructor and more experienced classmates, you won’t have to reinvent the wheel. You won’t be the one asking the CO, “Wait, could the hide be on the cones marking the start line?” (Answer: No. It never is. Don’t be that person.) And you’ll also know to never freak out and call alert on the cone.

I can also tell you from experience that all of that stuff is muscle memory, and it’s so easy for all of what you’ve read and told yourself to fly out the window when you walk into a search area at a trial. If you’ve practiced, if you’ve listened, you might recall that one thing your instructor has repeated at least 9,047 times and you had no idea why until THIS search. Having my instructor in my head literally saved my NW1 title in an exterior search that was incredibly fun but also not easy.


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## tim_s_adams

The rule book says 12 boxes for the ORT.


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## WateryTart

Muscle memory! My first impulse was to say 12! 


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## Steve Strom

The first time I ever trialed a dog I failed tracking. 50 or so spectators, a bunch of dogs, a judge and translator walking the track next to us, was way too much for a dog that had only tracked alone. He had a great time, but we failed pretty bad. I'd make sure you spend enough time training in an environment that matches the trial Tim. One reason I wouldn't throw her into a trial to just see, that can become what she understands to do in a trial. She plays around once without any input from you, that may be what you'll have the next time.


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## cloudpump

Steve Strom said:


> The first time I ever trialed a dog I failed tracking. 50 or so spectators, a bunch of dogs, a judge and translator walking the track next to us, was way too much for a dog that had only tracked alone. He had a great time, but we failed pretty bad. I'd make sure you spend enough time training in an environment that matches the trial Tim. One reason I wouldn't throw her into a trial to just see, that can become what she understands to do in a trial. She plays around once without any input from you, that may be what you'll have the next time.


And sometimes you just get the unexpected....


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## Katsugsd

cloudpump said:


> Like any trial, most people think it's easy, until its actually done. There are variables in trials that you never think to plan for.


Yup. I was confident we would get our NW1 last weekend. We went in, got 3/4 elements with two pronounced searches. Failed the interior due to two things - One being the heating system kicking on and pushing odor to the opposite side of the room, and the other being me basically convincing Katsu to alert on an object that did not contain the hide. At the end of the trial, the judge explained they did not anticipate the heater variable and all the dogs that tested with the heater on struggled.

Hindsight, I know what I should have done and hope to not make that mistake in the future trials. Overall, I came out of that trial proud of my girl, but disappointed in myself.

I think you could manage an ORT with a few weeks of training. Katsu got her Birch after our Intro to Nosework class (6 or 8 weeks I think). We'll be going for our Anise and Clove ORTs this December and a few AKC Scentwork titles until another NW1 trial comes up in our area.

I agree with practicing in different conditions and locations. I'd also recommend having someone else place hides for you so you're running blind. More power to you if you can get a group of people to come "watch" you. Our first element (vehicle) had about 10 people watching us and it distracted Katsu for a bit.


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## Heartandsoul

These are my thoughts based on what you have said and your thoughts on the beginning stages of the sport: If you are adamant about going for the ORT and maybe the NW1 on your own without classes, I would strongly suggest that you at least find an instructor that you mesh with and take a few private classes with him/her at the very least before your NW1 trial.

Everything everyone one has said has proven to be true for me and mine plus if you find that this sport is perfect for both of you, you are definitely going to need an instructor as you progress. It's best to lay the foundation with a good instructor early on as they will then be able to taylor the excercises based on strengths and weaknesses and if/when you decided to take a class, the instructor will be able to match a class that they are giving that will suite your needs.

We are now in training for our NW3. There were two situations in our second NW2 (I fouled on the first NW2) where I learned techniques in class from the beginnng that had I not taken class I would not have known which, first and foremost we titled because of, and second, we took third in the vehicle search. Our first NW2 did not present with the same variable as our second NW2 and I sure do learn from my mistakes lol.

So find a good/great instructor so you can lay that foundation also. 

Wishing you great success in which ever scent sport you choose.


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## tim_s_adams

I really appreciate all the insight folks! I think Nyx is 100% ready for the ORT at this point, but nowhere near ready for any sort of trial. Not taking a class is in no way synonymous with not being prepared! We have done container, interior, and exterior searches so far with hides that are both high and low, in cupboards, under blankets, stuffed in the couch etc., and she's pretty darn reliable. But we haven't yet done any vehicle searches, and all of this work has been done off-leash, and without any distractions, so as I said nowhere near trial ready! 
@Katsugsd can you share what in hindsight you would have changed when the heater turned on?


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## WateryTart

Katsugsd said:


> Yup. I was confident we would get our NW1 last weekend. We went in, got 3/4 elements with two pronounced searches. Failed the interior due to two things - One being the heating system kicking on and pushing odor to the opposite side of the room, and the other being me basically convincing Katsu to alert on an object that did not contain the hide. At the end of the trial, the judge explained they did not anticipate the heater variable and all the dogs that tested with the heater on struggled.
> 
> Hindsight, I know what I should have done and hope to not make that mistake in the future trials. Overall, I came out of that trial proud of my girl, but disappointed in myself.
> 
> I think you could manage an ORT with a few weeks of training. Katsu got her Birch after our Intro to Nosework class (6 or 8 weeks I think). We'll be going for our Anise and Clove ORTs this December and a few AKC Scentwork titles until another NW1 trial comes up in our area.
> 
> I agree with practicing in different conditions and locations. I'd also recommend having someone else place hides for you so you're running blind. More power to you if you can get a group of people to come "watch" you. Our first element (vehicle) had about 10 people watching us and it distracted Katsu for a bit.


Congrats on the pronounced, that is AWESOME. And I don't think you should be disappointed in yourself for missing an element that was legitimately made tough by a luck-of-the-draw variable. It happens. We also went 3/4 in our first NW1 and then missed on interiors because I got nervous and called alert too early. I felt bad for messing it up for my dog, but I realized that when we were walking out of the room and she nudged my hand and looked up at me and grinned, that she didn't see it that way at all. I'm certain Katsu doesn't either, and when you get your videos, buy them and review them with your instructor and go back for another try when you're ready. You know the two of you work together well - the pronouncements are tangible evidence of that! - and you'll ultimately become a stronger, smarter team than you were before.

Re your comments, I think that's exactly why a class would be really valuable for Tim and Nyx. The heating system: If you get a good instructor, you will have the chance, over the months or years you train before trialing, to get into a building that might have that variable. With any luck, you'll get to work in buildings that have different types of heating and cooling systems. It isn't just heating and cooling systems, though, it's also hot weather or very cold weather, people entering and leaving the room during/between searches (that changes the airflow and can affect how odor behaves), the dog having to traverse different surfaces in a search area, getting used to wind, rain, all that stuff. We've had class outdoors in frigid temps but then trialing under a winter storm watch? No big deal. We weren't as prepared with training to specifically handle the insane heat and humidity we ran into the day we titled in NW1, but my dog had enough skill and foundation under her belt to work with it.

With respect to the spectators: You would run into that in AKC. There aren't supposed to be spectators in NACSW unless designated by the handler, but you will have the judge, steward, timer, photographer, videographer. If you take group classes, your dog will get practice first in a low key environment with the same group watching, and later on field trips, your dog can gain experience with random people watching. Tractor Supply was a pretty fun night.

All of that might seem like a waste of time and money if you think you can pass ORTs and put titles on your dog right away because they seem to catch on to the game right off the bat, but it isn't. None of it is. Every single week of class will make you a stronger handler and give your dog more experience and skill to work in a setting that isn't your backyard or your living room. Because no trial ever was held in a competitor's backyard.


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## Jenny720

I have not done nose work in awhile my life has been very hectic but often do sporadic scent work games. it’s often hectic in the house with them doing nose work in the house both barking crazy for their turns. I do take them to places a lot so I had ordered this it makes things easier to carry and do while out one dog at a time. The gift idea thread gave me the idea to post this would make a good gift for nose work addicts! They have different scent tubes - akc,ukc, noseworks 
https://k9nwsource.com/shop/travel-tubes-nosework-loop/


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## Heartandsoul

Also, when you pass your ORT, and you feel that you are at least semi ready, start looking for Mock trials. They aren't posted on the NACSW site but each training facility/trainer that sets one up will announce it on their site or their FB. So check out training facilities for past and future events and follow them on FB. This is where you can really test your readiness and they are a lot of fun. if you need coaching, you can ask for it. The last few we did took place at a dog friendly motel and the interior search was an actual room, a church, someone's home who had pets and they used that pet area for the container search area. Our last was at a farm. Mock trials are open to anyone who has passed the ORT for the level (s) that they have set up for.


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## Katsugsd

tim_s_adams said:


> @*Katsugsd* can you share what in hindsight you would have changed when the heater turned on?


Sorry for getting back to this so late! I wasn't aware the heater was on or off. I came into the room thinking the trial was supposed to be consistent with no variables per team.

Thinking back on it I could have approached the issue a few different ways. It was interior and off leash was allowed - I could have chose this and prevented myself from giving too much influence on her search. I have done a few "stand in one place and have her do an independent search" but only at home. Never in a different environment. It may be worth practicing just in case this comes up again.

The second option was something I thought of from a previous experience earlier that week when we were practicing a vehicle search. Katsu did this sniffing thing then looked back at me (I have shaped alert indicators she uses). When I asked her to "target" she kind of sniffed again in another area and looked back at me as if to say "nothing's here mom." Our instructor interrupted me and said, "a good thing to do when it looks like she can't find anything, is to take her to the start and have her search again."

The second option is what I SHOULD have done given I had her on leash and she was showing me the same signs from our last practice. The hide was about 4 steps to our left. She would have found it if I brought her to the start to try again (it was about 5 steps from the start area.) I can only assume the heater was pushing odor to the other side of the room (where we were) and that's why I had her focus on it.

@WateryTart - thank you for the compliment. I am proud of how she did. I'm surprised they had that many people watching on the vehicle search (I think at least 3 more other than the 4 designated people), but I also didn't know what to expect for a NACSW. A few friends of mine were helping at the trial and told me last week the judge had asked if any of the helpers wanted to spectate vehicle searches. We have two AKC Scentwork trials this weekend. It'll be a new experience with an AKC trial (and I haven't heard too many good things about the Scentwork trials).


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