# 2x2 Weave Direction- Why is this right?



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I was watching the first 30 secs of this youtube video:





I noticed that the dog entered from the back of the weave poles (at least every time he did it properly). My question is this:










In the diagram above, starting from the "First" position, it is obvious where the dog needs to go. But when I move to the "Second" position, I assume that the red line is incorrect, and the green line is correct. Why/how does the dog know this? In a 2x2, the dog could enter from either side and still be entering with the first pole at his left shoulder...


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I haven't trained the 2 X 2 method, but for me the dog is ALWAYS supposed to enter with the first pole on his LEFT shoulder. 

If I am standing where the word 'first' is and send my dog into the weaves, she should take the black line (and keep weaving to the right if there were the additional 10 poles).

If I am standing at the word 'second' and send my dog into the weaves, she should take off on the red line (and keep weaving then to her right which would be to the LEFT side of the page/screen/monitor if there were the additional 10 poles).

So the green line is never right with the setup you posted (unless this is some weird 2 X 2 thing that I don't know and I did say I don't train this way, right?  )

The video is confusing to me.....  starting at 27 sec I don't see she's doing the entry correctly all the time and I'm confused is she likes what she's getting or not from the dog....


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I agree. I thought it was so odd... Check out 0:26, and 0:30 of the clip I posted. She is deliberately sending the dog around the back side in order to enter from the back. It's almost as if she has stated that "First" in my diagram is *always* the enter side. So no matter where she sends the dog from, it should go in following the black/green lines... I can kinda see the reasoning, but then again- it seems you'd want to train from both directions. Hmmm.... Research time.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I think we are right... the first video was when the 2 X 2 training was new and I'm thinking she was confused...

Watch this video, it seems to be what makes more sense to me...





 
Hopefully someone who's used the method will chime in....


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

:bump:


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

We start training at the new facility on Monday, MRL! I'm so excited! Not to mention that there is a trial there this weekend that I'm going to go see- my first trial as a spectator. I'll be sure to ask my new trainer about this... And of course, I will report back.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

wildo said:


> We start training at the new facility on Monday, MRL! I'm so excited! Not to mention that there is a trial there this weekend that I'm going to go see- my first trial as a spectator. I'll be sure to ask my new trainer about this... And of course, I will report back.


Can't wait to hear an update. Go and have fun! 

If you know anyone and can find the volunteer coordinator, they usually need workers (and around here you get fed and watered !  )


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> *If you know anyone* and can find the volunteer coordinator, they usually need workers (and around here you get fed and watered !  )


Nope. I don't. haha! In fact, I finally got a callback, and she said it will be _very_ crowded with only standing room. She asked me not to bring my dog even. Sounds like there will be a lot going on...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think the green line is correct. 2x2 seeks to teach the entry, right off the bat (not teaching the weaves and then going back and working hard entries). I believe that the diagram is confusing if you are not familiar with this method or how the entries are trained using only two poles and a moving "reward line". If you added the second 2x2 you would add it to the right. That is how the diagrams and training videos I've watched have always worked, it assumes the direction of the weave poles is left to right (as we look at it on the screen). In the diagram the dog is entering with the left pole on his left, and would continue weaving left to right. If my assumption is correct, that makes the green line correct, and illustrates how the 2x2 process trains those difficult entries. The dog is basically making a 180 into the poles.

I didn't watch the vids embedded, just looking at the diagram.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

In competition it would look like this:









Obviously in training it's a bit exaggerated, but since you start with only two poles you can work all the way around them before adding more and having them get in the way and limit the angle of the entry. That is the beauty of working 2 poles for the majority of the training, the dog learns entries that aren't even possible in a trial.


That is, if I've understood the question correctly!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Liesje said:


> That is the beauty of working 2 poles for the majority of the training,* the dog learns entries that aren't even possible in a trial*.


Thanks Liesje! That was exactly my hold up with it. When I send the dog from a 12 o'clock position with two poles (green line below), I can understand what the dog is supposed to do considering the two poles are "directional." But it was confusing to me what it would look like with more than two poles (red line below).

I assumed that 2x2 was not just to train weaving in general, but also to make entries _rock solid._ This is the reason I have decided to do both 2x2 and channel weaves. It makes sense to me to work on entries with 2x2, and speed with the channel... Your clarification is exactly what I was looking for.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

wildo said:


> I assumed that 2x2 was not just to train weaving in general, but also to make entries _rock solid._ This is the reason I have decided to do both 2x2 and channel weaves. It makes sense to me to work on entries with 2x2, and speed with the channel... Your clarification is exactly what I was looking for.


 2x2 is a full weave training method, not just for entries. The person who created the method (Susan Garrett) intended for it to be a faster, easier and more reliable weave method - "12 poles in 12 days".


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Overall I like the 2x2 method the best because my favorite method of training is shaping. Where I go back to channels is not so much for entries or actual weave technique or speed but when I don't want to worry about the weaving and focus on getting the dog to drive out of the weaves. With the channels I don't have to worry about the dog making a mistake in the weaves when that's not what I'm focusing on. With my current dog, I did some channels just to get him used to the idea of poles brushing him, but then went to 2x2 as soon as I got my hands on the DVD.


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## gsdheeler (Apr 12, 2010)

I just got Susan Garretts DVD, so far so good. I'm on to 4 poles. Going much faster than channel weaves.
Would be better if my girl liked to tug as much as she likes food.


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