# Personal Protection



## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

First, I hope this is the right sub-board for my post. 

Second, I'm going to lay some background about my experience with dogs, and I hope I cover it all. 

I have had three dogs that I had personally worked and trained with, but dogs have always been in my life (along with cats). From a young age I have loved to work with and learn about animals in general. I trained my cat, who'd I recently lost this October when I was 7. She knew how to sit, fetch, and I walked her on a leash. It was really my way to show my dad I wanted a dog. It wasn't until I was 11 going on 12 that my dad let me have a dog after I begged and begged for a puppy from a group of people who'd lost the mother during birth. It took my dad nearly a week to say okay. I got him when he was just 10 days old. It was summer so I bottle fed him and raised him up until he was 5 months old. He contracted parvo. I had told my dad he needed puppy shots, but he didn't believe me...he'd never had a dog from a puppy we'd always had rescue dogs from shelters and the only shots my dad did was rabies.

Then that christmas my mom got me Klondike my border collie mix. She was 3 months old and this time my dad made sure everything was done to a t when it came to her shots and health. I immediately worked on training her. Before she was a year old she knew how to speak just when I used a questioning tone like 'Has Tiger been mean to you?' and she would nearly hold a 'conversation' with me, she knew 'shh' how to hold a treat on her nose and catch it off, walk off leash at my side, come when called, sit, down, roll over, leave it, wait, and the list goes on. When she was 4 years old I learned about the CGC and went for it going even above and beyond the requirements. I honestly thought the training would be harder. At the time I worked at a pet store that was family owned and they would let me bring Klondike in..it was summer when we trained for the test and I taught her to stay at the store (doors open and another associate would keep an eye on her) as I walked to the Kroger and back. I asked if she stayed in place and work back to distance if she didn't. The test was such a breeze. 

So needless to say obedience is no problem with me, training almost comes with ease, but I realize personal protection training is a whole different ball game to obedience. Obviously it does play a part because the dog has to have that 'controlled' foundation.

When I got Chari, she came Schutzhund one trained, but it wasn't something I knew or had heard of before Chari. She introduced me to the world and it fascinates me and perks my interest. I understood...or maybe it was just hearsay, that you need to be careful with training, it must be very controlled or you could potentially hurt the dogs chance of success if training goes wrong.

So...here's my point, I am going to be getting a puppy, hopefully here in June or July. Before she (or possibly he) comes through our door I want to be prepared on what I need to do to set that puppy up for success for Personal Protection. I've been looking at books and trying to make a list of all the books I need to buy and read to educate myself on everything inside and out so I don't miss a thing. I had even sifted through here trying to find things, but as my fiance says "the google fu" is not strong with me. He has the 'google fu' not I. Lol

Is it okay to start with basics right away? Or should I line up training first with a club or is 8-9 weeks too young, as that would be the age in which I get her.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I suggest you may want to go visit some clubs and ask them about their training programs and if they do puppy classes.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

PP and IPO are very different. The breeder you choose may have some input on a direction to send you(clubwise) If this is your goal to have a protection trained dog, then choosing the right breeder is most important. And please be careful on WHO you choose, and WHO you are going to train with.
And I would start going to clubs now because you'll learn so much just observing, you don't need a pup or dog to observe and learn.


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

Line-breeding for the progency of Sumo Von Der Dewhaus and Blackthorn's Oda


Is this not a good lineage to choose from, it is the one I'm going for...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

good choice! Christine should know who you should train with in your area and who to stay clear of.


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

Good! We talked once on the phone and back and forth on gmail. I really like her and I feel very confident with her as the breeder of my choice :3


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about books or literature. Most of it is very outdated. There are some good videos you can watch now by different trainers that can help you with the starting focus work and how to work your dog with positive methods. You're also not going to learn a lot without being able to watch others and have others critique your training and progress.

You should really start going to clubs, finding and figuring out the training methods you're going to use with your dog. You need people around you that have experience training the type of dog you want, in the type of work you want it to do. A book will give you a standard way of doing something, just one way of teaching an exercise, it won't give you any solutions when you run into problems or that way doesn't work for your dog.

If you're planning on IPO or PP...you'll need others to help you anyways. You can't be your own helper and handler. You'll need to have controlled training environments that you're unlikely to be able to set up with just yourself.


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

I never plan on doing this alone...I just need help pointing in the right direction. 

I just now have two clubs in mind...but I was hoping I would have more options. My only conflict right now is my job. I need to know what type of time constraints go along with getting into this type of field. 

Is this something like 2 to 3 times a week that I go to the club. My job is very erratic. I rarely get a weekend off. I usually have wednesday and thursdays off if I'm lucky to have two days in a row off. I know I can try and make Saturdays work if they meet at 6pm as I can have myself scheduled opens. 

Believe me I understand training doesn't just stop and start at the club, training is also at home. 

It's right now between Estate Dogs and RoseHaven Kennels.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Are you looking for personal protection or schutzhund/IPO type stuff? I'm sure your breeder can help you with either.


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

I was, until several hours ago really keen on personal protection, but I feel that might be too centered now after much thought and information. I like the personal protection aspect, but I'm thinking SchH might hold all the personal protection I need. 

My whole goal with my puppy, when I get her or him here in roughly June will be to have a family dog that I can take just about EVERYWHERE with me when I'm not at work, and have the capability to protect and guard me and my fiance (not that he needs guarding as he views himself to be all the protection we need) if anything happens. More or less a dog that will stop a situation before it gets to the point my fiance has to draw his weapon. 

I know he doesn't feel it to be necessary but I have always felt safe with a dog, I've never had to defend myself as I have had my dog, Klondike, and even my dog, Chari deter anyone from getting to that point. 

Either way, I would like to do more than just basic to advance obedience with my gsd puppy. I'm thinking SchH would be a good and fun experience now that I reacquainted myself to what it looks like with some videos. It's been awhile as I had taken Chari a few times to her former owners club, they would do just some fun bite sleeve stuff with her and I had watched them do a few training classes before. Even before I got Chari my assistant manager had a shepherd she did training with, and I went to the Giles (Chari's former owners) and saw her do SchH.

I guess I thought PPD training would fit me, but again after much deliberation and thought perhaps SchH is better.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

FortheLoveofChari said:


> I was, until several hours ago really keen on personal protection, but I feel that might be too centered now after much thought and information. I like the personal protection aspect, but I'm thinking SchH might hold all the personal protection I need.
> 
> My whole goal with my puppy, when I get her or him here in roughly June will be to have a family dog that I can take just about EVERYWHERE with me when I'm not at work, and have the capability to protect and guard me and my fiance (not that he needs guarding as he views himself to be all the protection we need) if anything happens. More or less a dog that will stop a situation before it gets to the point my fiance has to draw his weapon.
> 
> ...


 

Cool! I don't really have any advice for you. I was just more curious than anything. Definitely talk to Christine. She knows her dogs and will be able to point you in the right direction. I don't recall what sport she does. I watched some videos a while back and saw her dogs working on a suit so...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think you made a good choice in your breeder and the pedigree.
Now you have to make the right choice as to what you want to do with the dog .
I am sure Christine will be able to pick the right dog and steer you in the right direction.
sch h , IPO , and personal protection have little to do with each other.
I have personal experience in both participating and titling in sport and in training and placing dogs as personal protection dogs . The clients were NHL hockey stars , recording artists, international business men, 
"estate" etc. 
At the core , primary importance is a good solid , bomb proof dog. Not excitable. I have confidence that your breeder can select the right dog. 
At the core of this dog's development is to have him/her integrated into your family -- and take him everywhere . You show him the "big" NORMAL world , put experience under his collar. Let him see what normal people are like , maybe I mean show him what people are normally like which is a totally different matter . A PPD needs to read "them" and "you" . 
Concentrate on your obedience and manners .
A PPD can and should be so stable , able to receive attention without you needing to be worried.
The hockey-dog went onto the ice after the games, met with the press, went in to the lockers , travelled city to city and was a pal to the crawling baby at home . But don't mess with Mr. or the family.
Don't baby the dog. If there is a hesitation on something instead of focusing on it and convincing the dog its okay - model the behaviour you want from the dog.
Fooling around with bite work in play , will not work for you . 
Integrate the dog into your life routine. Tell him what you expect from him. When the dog is fully mature then you can test the dog with a set up looks-like-real situation . 
The "clubs" closest to this format would be the American Ring clubs or street ring .


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would look at what clubs are in your area and find a fit. Usually this will dictate what sport or training path you take. My favorite bite sport is SDA but there are no dedicated SDA clubs around so I've been doing SchH instead. If you want to do PPD, but have several good SchH clubs nearby, then you may want to do SchH instead (or vice versa). I also really love agility, but it is expensive to pay for the classes, floor time, private instruction, and entry fees so instead I only dabble in agility now and train and compete in flyball which is much cheaper for me, more affordable to enter events and travel once a month, and my dog seems to enjoy it just as much. So my advice would be start visiting clubs or training facilities that offer anything that piques your interest and see what you like, where you feel you "fit" with the group of people and the training style. That might help you decide which direction to go.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I thibk that schH and PP are very different . Since schH is a sport and is a competition, there is a large emphasis on the dog learning how to strike, grip, out and display precision in all these behaviors, as well as precision in obedience in the protection phase. If you go to a schH club, the result is likely that your pup will be started in bite work at a very young age, learning to bite a rag and progressing to a tug, then sleeve, etc. While this approach is good for sport, it is not ideal for PP. The dog learns quickly that it is playing a game, and does not usually get challenged in defense, and comes to see the helper as a partner rather than as an adversary. You can get good opportunities for exposing a pup and socializing him with other people and dogs at a schH club. You can also learn how to train obedience in drive using a tug at a club from a young age. But if you want a dog that is likely to really protect, you need the correct genetics and then wait until the dog is mature before you start protection training so the decoy can approach the training as less of a game. The best dogs can probably be crossed trained as a PP dog after sport training, but you have to realize how much conditioning goes into a sport dog that is counter to PP.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Start contacting clubs and trainers to figure out their schedules. I know very few clubs that get together on weekdays, if you live close enough to the helper or the TD they might be able to fit you in on a weekday for a private lesson, but again that depends on their schedule. In my area...clubs are all out in the boonies (need the space to train) and therefore can't really meet on weekdays because its unlikely anyone is going to drive an hour after they get home at 5 just to go to training.

I don't want to discourage you, without having information about when clubs meet, but your schedule isn't going to be the most schutzhund or ppd friendly. Dog sport is a huge time commitment. And if you haven't really trained to compete, you won't truly understand it until you start. You're not at the club 2-3 times a week. You're there once...mainly for the protection phase, but you do the obedience and tracking throughout the week. And the more you do it, the better your dog will be at it. If you slack off...your TD and helper will notice, if you don't put in the effort that you should be, the others at your club will notice. BTW...this is coming from someone that doesn't do Schutzhund BECAUSE of the time commitment required. I just can't devote that much time to it right now, and its because I'd want to compete and get high scores, and not just do it to train.

If you're looking for information on what to do with your puppy...check out the leerburg videos. Very informational on how to raise a "working" puppy. But the truth is, going to the club as early as possible and starting to train early (with the proper direction) won't hurt. I only started training my dog for competition when he was about 8 months old...and although he's been pretty successful, the people that start their puppies at 8 weeks are much more successful and their dogs are much easier to train when it comes to the more difficult exercises. They've already done all the introductions to the different articles/obstacles the dog will see when it gets older and therefore it makes those things easier when it comes time for it.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Someone once told me good PP dogs are born not trained either the dog has it or it doesnt. I dont see an issue with using sport to start the dog then as he matures taking your training in a different direction.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Chip pretty well covered it -- . Know what you want to do with the dog.
Another thing in PP is that it is a good idea to not rely on the same decoy -- 
When I do my training I have a "few" that I call up , that do not work the dog in schutzhund mode, that do not have equipment visible , so no sleeve . They do not socialize with the dog before or after . Lot of play acting . We might start with the stranger approaching pretending to ask for directions and then grab the purse and dog needs to read the situation . Use only as much as is needed to bring situation back into control. Be ready to ramp it up if needed. Can NOT leave you or go behind you .
Needs to bring himself back down -- like an on and off switch. Be clear in the head and controllable.

Blitzkrieg, you are right , these dogs are born and not made through training . There has to be an active aggression, fight drive though and this is missing in the large part in the breed , as of late . I wouldn't start the dog in schutzhund sport , same reasons that Chip gave.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I'm glad it's not missing in Lisl. But she comes from a line of K9 bred dogs.

Knowing that, I still thought the dogs needed to be coaxed, coached, and/or trained to get that behavior from them.

Not so. Lisl is the only K9 bred GSD I've owned or worked with. She has the potential to be a great PPD, but I am not persuing that with her at this time.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I have a semi-related question that might of interest to the OP, so I'm hoping it's ok to tack onto this thread.

For a person who is thinking about getting into schutz. or PP, do you allow your dog to be a 'pet' in the home? I'm just mentioning this in case the OP hasn't thought of this, and I'm not sure if all people treat their schutz or PP dogs the same.

I just know when I was going out to schutz practice, my experience was that a lot of people would tell me *not to* discourage my young dog from jumping up on people, not to give her free access to toys at home, not to tug with her in case I did it wrong, don't play with her like that etc etc. Basically all I heard was don't, don't, don't, don't. It made me afraid to do anything with her, because I was probably doing everything wrong.

If the OP is looking first and foremost for a pet to play around with at home (and I'm not sure if you are), with the interest in pursuing these types of sport/protection work, will that create a conflict of interest?

I gave up on schutzhund for that reason. I felt like if I wanted to pursue it, I had to stop enjoying her like a pet and companion. I'm not sure if my experience was normal or not, but I'd gotten my dog as a pet first and foremost with the intent of doing some sports with her that she had a natural inclination for, but I was basically being told I couldn't have both.

I got her into scent work instead, which I'm loving and she's been successful at, so maybe it was a blessing in disguise. I found schutzhund to be a huge lifestyle change, as far as what I was used to doing with previous dogs I had growing up, where with the schutzhund people every moment you spent interacting with your dog was a training session, it seemed like, and that there was not time for being silly with your dog. Maybe I talked to the wrong people.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

You talked to people with a different philosophy. Not everyone thinks that way. Most of the people on this board that do SchH and even have PPD also have their dogs as pets. 

The main reason why people tell you to not to this or that is because it can suppress the drives in some dogs especially if learning house manners entails heavy handed methods.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

OP, I see you are in Ohio. Depending on where you are exactly in the state, there are some old time SchH people with clubs that still know how to train dogs for SchH and not just the IPO game. If you would like to do both I would search out these clubs.


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

yes, I was very interested and figuring that out. That was sort of what I meant when I was trying to figure out training...to me treating him/her different than Kodi in terms of play is a training method...

I have finally tracked down the training facility I'm going to. I will be going there this spring to watch and see how I mesh with the beginners group that meets on Sundays. It is a group put together for those who aren't sure if they want to do SchH for serious or just something fun to do with their dogs.


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

The group is in Pickerington which is where I used to live. Not but 10 minutes away. 

His name is Tommy Gilles, I'm not sure how well known he is, but he is a good acquaintance, and his mom was who I got Chari from.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

OP, don't take offense to this but, these types of threads scare me. You sound like someone that wants to try out schutzhund, or more like the bite work aspect of schutzhund because it's kind of cool. You're not sure of the commitment it takes, or the commitment you're willing to make, but your first thought is to train a PPD. You've admitted you don't really need one, but think it would be cool to have one.

As the other poster pointed out, there's a very interesting/difficult balance that has to be kept between work and play. Being your first dog you're going to train in this sport, it will be hard to figure out what exactly that balance should be. You really need to decide early on what it is you're going to push this dog, and yourself to achieve.

It's great that you're in that beginners group, it will help you realize what you're trying to do and how hard you're willing to work. Personally I would put all dreams of a PPD dog out of my head and focus on the sport.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Tommy Gillies is a national(world!) competitor. His parents have been breeding for several years. I don't think you'll go wrong training with him/and it's great you don't have to drive 2 hours to train!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Tommy is a good guy and very nice. Also an excellent helper. Good person to work with.


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

martemchik said:


> OP, don't take offense to this but, these types of threads scare me. You sound like someone that wants to try out schutzhund, or more like the bite work aspect of schutzhund because it's kind of cool. You're not sure of the commitment it takes, or the commitment you're willing to make, but your first thought is to train a PPD. You've admitted you don't really need one, but think it would be cool to have one.
> 
> As the other poster pointed out, there's a very interesting/difficult balance that has to be kept between work and play. Being your first dog you're going to train in this sport, it will be hard to figure out what exactly that balance should be. You really need to decide early on what it is you're going to push this dog, and yourself to achieve.
> 
> It's great that you're in that beginners group, it will help you realize what you're trying to do and how hard you're willing to work. Personally I would put all dreams of a PPD dog out of my head and focus on the sport.


Ummm....I am sorry you got that impression, and NO I DON'T THINK IT IS COOL! I'm sorry you got that impression, and when did I say cool in any of my posts! 

Sorry but I did take offense!

Not once did I state my reason, at least I don't think I had. My reason was for safety and security!


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

My fiance has his CCW license perhaps that is where you got the idea I don't need a PPD but here's the thing he's not home all the time we live in a sketchy neighborhood. Not that bad, but it is surrounded by ghetto areas, less than five miles away gang activity happens and not even a mile away robberies happen so I'm sorry I do feel the need to have a PPD. 

It wasn't until I did more research WAY before I even have my puppy that I decided maybe SchH was a better fit. I don't want to do it JUST for the bite work, but I want to do it as I see it creates a tight bond between handler and dog. Me being the handler..


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

any work with the dog helps create a bond . You asked can a sch h , or ppd dog live with you in your house , be part of your family. I would say it is particularly important that a dog intended for PPD be part of the family, learn how to read "us" , feel like a member , work as partners . Humans have a lot of emotional exchanges . The dog will live and learn , get feedback on his reactions and fine tune it for acting appropriately if and when necessary. Find the dog that is right for you . Rock solid pup. Not the one that may catch your eye because he looks all firey and spirited . Not necessary for PPD . The dog I would pick to raise for an active sports star , and the dog I would pick for the semi-retired executive would be different but at the base must be the same in being Rock solid , no issues, bomb proof --- and a dog that has interest in connecting with you. Take the young prospect pup plunk him on the ground and walk . Does the dog have attachment or does he run off in his own world . Off lead . You want the dog to trust you , and in turn you will need to trust the dog . This gives you freedom of actions .


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

My house got broken into twice and I got a dog with a pedigree for pp in mind. After thinking hard about it I decided against it as the liability is too high. If a dog sees a percieved threat it's not going to bite and let go and scare the threat away. It's going to try to inflict as much damage as possible and take the threat down. 

A territorial Shepherd should be enough to keep intruders away. If they hear a big gsd with its deep bark and break in anyways then they will have a weapon and no dog is going to save you in that scenario. If you live in a high crime neighborhood you should have a gun with easy access to begin with. 

Also with a ppd there is lifetime maintainence. Those were the reasons I decided to do schutzhund over trying to train a ppd. Not to mention it's very hard to find someone who actually has trained some pp dogs for real work.


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> My house got broken into twice and I got a dog with a pedigree for pp in mind. After thinking hard about it I decided against it as the liability is too high. If a dog sees a percieved threat it's not going to bite and let go and scare the threat away. It's going to try to inflict as much damage as possible and take the threat down.
> 
> A territorial Shepherd should be enough to keep intruders away. If they hear a big gsd with its deep bark and break in anyways then they will have a weapon and no dog is going to save you in that scenario. If you live in a high crime neighborhood you should have a gun with easy access to begin with.
> 
> Also with a ppd there is lifetime maintainence. Those were the reasons I decided to do schutzhund over trying to train a ppd. Not to mention it's very hard to find someone who actually has trained some pp dogs for real work.



That was what I was thinking, PPD, will not be the right route. SchH is, and my fiance does have a gun that would be easy to access, it is also why I want to train. A trained dog would know to back off on command so I would not worry if I need to resort to firing a weapon. I am just not comfortable with guns as my fiance is. I have thought through many scenarios and exit strategies. Also I have been in two situations (not at this house) where there was a threat. One was when I did have Chari and someone waltzed right in, she quickly detered him out of my place. I was scared and rightly so, once I got my nerve I ran to the window to see the person. He was hightailing it away. 

She or he will be a big part of the family. That is my intentions, I just was worried that I would 'soften' the dog, or would it just create a stronger bond. I'm aware that anything that includes the prospective dog will create a bond, but to me I feel like SchH would include an intense bond. The look in the dogs eyes when they're doing the obedience part is a bond I want. 

Chari had that a little with me, and it was great. She knew I had her back and in turn she had mine...that was what I want again. A bond that is full of trust from one another.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

a dog will alert you -- a gun will not 
a dog will work when you are not at home , a gun will not
a dog will work when you are asleep , a gun will not
the dog can (SHOULD) be controlled by a level head -- once the gun comes out there is no more level head to deal with 
a dog can prevent , stop an action without fatality -- a gun , why would you bring it out unless you mean business


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

Thank you for that Carm, exactly.


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## FortheLoveofChari (Nov 22, 2013)

The only thing I can say is I know my fiance is a very level headed person, he's trains in high stress situations to learn and maintain a level head if anything comes about that requires him to draw.

As he has said MANY times, "He rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Here's the thing...at BEST with a high level of commitment to training your dog will be ready to "defend" at 2 years old. So for the next two years, you won't have that peace of mind you're looking for. I'm not questioning your reasons, or judging you in any negative way for wanting a PPD. I just understand the type of work it takes, and the amount of money it takes, and personally I think there are much more cost effective and physically effective ways of keeping yourself and your property safe.

I really just like to figure out why people feel they need one, more to understand their point of view than to change it. I just like to learn about other people's life situations and experience that have led them to come to that decision. So hopefully you're not too angry at my questioning.

IMO...if I'm going to be spending thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to train a dog, its almost easier to move if I don't feel that safe in the current area I live in. And then, like boomer mentioned...you're going to have a HUGE liability on your hands. If your dog ever does something to a person that's not a threat, I can almost guarantee you that you're going to lose your house. There's a reason why PPD isn't a huge business in the United States and why you don't see them that often (I've actually never run across one). Legally, you're toeing a very fine line once you start your dog in any kind of bite work training.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

personal protection dogs are born , not made . They either have it or they do not. Getting the right , bomb proof , stable confident dog with handler/family attachment (bond) is all important . Dog will act upon its inherent instinct ---


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

By the way, to the OP, I'm not trying to discourage you from trying, it's just something to think about, that some trainers don't want you treating the dog like a pet, so depending on why you are getting the dog, it may or may not not be how you want to manage it.

When I was taking my dog to schutzhund, it was such a relief to have people who knew about handing this type of a dog, as opposed to pet obedience people who want a dog who's more easy going, I suppose. 

I do agree with Carmspack that a GSD is naturally protective of the home. Even though my GSD isn't trained in PP, she is wonderful about alerting to strangers approaching the house, and I've had a couple of occasions when out for a walk where we were surprised by someone acting strangely and she had a big deep, serious bark, so they do have an uncanny ability to evaluate people's behaviour and whether they are giving off a bad vibe. I do think most GSD's will naturally give you some sense of security. If nothing else, they are a good deterrent, and that is far better protection than any gun IMO.

For schutzhund, be prepared for a TON of training. It was too much for me, with a farm to manage and horses to train at home, remember there is tracking, obedience and protection and all three components require a lot of work. But I really admire the well trained schutzhund dogs and I enjoy the people there who 'get' these types of strong working breeds. I can't tell you how many dirty looks I got at my pet obedeince place with my sassy WL GSD  Even though I no longer train at schutzhund, I still go out when they have training days to watch and I go to the trials every fall to cheer people on, so it's not been a waste of time by any means.

Good luck in your search! Get some idea's about good breeders and advice on pedigree's from the people here, and I'm not sure, but getting a dog for PP and for schutz, there might be some differences in what they are looking for so figure out what you want to do first. I wish I'd found this forum before I got my dog. I love her, but I think she would have been better for an experienced schutzhund handler, and not a pet owner, but she's still my big love bug and I can't imagine not having her in my life now.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Your perspective breeder is an excellent resource for most of the questions you are asking....if you plan to get one of her dogs, I would use her extensively in getting off the ground and going in right direction.


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