# Malinois K9 attacks 4 yr old at Airport



## cassadee7

I saw this today and it really made my heart sink. I know the general public equate "K9" and the Malinois look with German Shepherds. I just hate to see this kind of thing in the news. Thoughts?

First On 9: Customs Patrol Dog Attacks Child At Dulles Airport | WUSA9.com | Washington, DC |


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## Redgrappler

Heart wrenching. Here's where I stand....the handler needs to be reprimanded. The dog needs to be put down. May sound inhumane but this dog is dangerous. Could this dog be rehabilitated, I'm sure it can...but from what. If this dog followed the training regiment that I'm sure the professionals instilled, it should not have snapped. Being that it did, somethings loose in this dog's wiring. He would not stop on command while on the job...he needs to be put down.


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## Remo

On Fox news this morning they kept referring to the dog as a Belgian Malawa. MAH-LAH-WAH is how they pronounced it. I was glad they never mentioned the words German Shepherd.


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## WynterCote

That's unfortunate for the girl and the dog. It's also too bad that they described the dog's breed as 'like a German Shepherd'. Too much of the bad press on German Shepherds isn't actually involving a GSD. But that's the catch-22 about being a popular breed of dog. Reporters use 'German Shepherd' because average readers will be familiar with that breed, in turn it hurts their popularity.


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## Lilie

The article stated that the child was backing away and then cried out before he dog attacked her. I assume it was that action that prompted the dog to attack. Not making excuses, just attempting to figure out what triggered the attack. I'm sure the dog has been around many children as it works in the airport. 

I don't understand why the handler allowed the dog to be that close to the child. In my opinion the handler is at fault as well.


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## Doubleminttwin

I hate these stories, in the end everyone loses  When something like this happens it doesn't just look bad on the malinios or even shepherds, it looks bad on all big dogs, and in a world where the chipoo is taking over thats most definetly not a good thing.


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## BowWowMeow

How sad and scary for those children and their mother. It's too bad this happened at all, with any breed of working dog. 

Border Patrol has tons of dogs. Don't know how much work time they get each day. Here they are kenneled (don't live with their handlers) when they're not working and they have many different handlers.


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## SouthernThistle

Are Customs dogs trained in apprehension, or are they just trained in detection? 
Most of the Customs dogs at the Hartsfield-Jackson Airport (Atlanta) are Beagles


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## Liesje

Sad story. This just sounds like an accident to me. No one is really to blame. Kids should be able to be at the airport and even have screaming fits without being afraid of dog attacks, mothers should not have to train their kids to hold perfectly still and be quiet around a working dog, the handler should not have to restrict the dog from people in such a way it cannot do its job, and the dog should be able to do its job without attacking. This kind of thing happens all the time, even with good kids, good dogs, and good parents. I was chomped in the face by a German shepherd when I was about that age. We can say "these dogs should NEVER be near kids" but how do you know when the dog has done fine up until that point? I've let kids pet my dogs, under my supervision of course, but I guess if the dog really wanted to he was close enough to attack. If anyone is at fault, it's the human race in general for thinking we can predict every single behavior and move that an animal is going to make.


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## Suki's Mom

How scary for that little girl


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## APBTLove

Sad, but I agree with Redgrappler.


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## BlackPuppy

That's sad. It definitely sounds like a bad match, dog to job, that is. I agree that the dog should be put down.


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## arycrest

SouthernThistle said:


> Are Customs dogs trained in apprehension, or are they just trained in detection?
> Most of the Customs dogs at the Hartsfield-Jackson Airport (Atlanta) are Beagles


Years ago they were never trained for aggression/attack and it sounds like it's still their practice. According to the article, "K-9s going through the Front Royal Academy periodically go through training at the airport. During training, the K-9s come to the airport in teams of 7-8 dogs with their handlers. The dogs enter one at a time for each exercise in narcotics, explosives and other contraband.

Officials say these dogs are taught to be passive and if they find something suspicious they sit and wait. _They say they're not taught to be aggressive._"

What a horrific attack. The poor little kid had over 20 stitches and the article doesn't go into how much damage the mother received. "The dog would not release her, even as the handler gave the command to release.

As her mother tried to intervene, she received numerous bites to her hand.

The dog was eventually subdued by its handler, and the girl was transported to Reston Hospital in serious condition."

I wonder how much training the handlers get for dealing with a detector dog which is an apparent dangerous loose cannon.


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## BlackPuppy

SouthernThistle said:


> Are Customs dogs trained in apprehension, or are they just trained in detection?
> Most of the Customs dogs at the Hartsfield-Jackson Airport (Atlanta) are Beagles


I know that border entry dogs are just detection. They sometime use shelter dogs. 

I read a story of a dog that worked the US-Mexican border, slipper her collar, ran down the row of cars. She came back with a bag of Marijuana in her mouth, happy as punch, and waiting for her reward. Unfortunately, the officers didn't know where the drugs came from, but the happy girl got her reward.


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## Raziel

Redgrappler said:


> Heart wrenching. Here's where I stand....the handler needs to be reprimanded. The dog needs to be put down. May sound inhumane but this dog is dangerous. Could this dog be rehabilitated, I'm sure it can...but from what. If this dog followed the training regiment that I'm sure the professionals instilled, it should not have snapped. Being that it did, somethings loose in this dog's wiring. He would not stop on command while on the job...he needs to be put down.


 
I dont see why the handler should be reprimanded......animals, IM SORRY are VERY unpredicable.
Im sorry for this girl & her family.
I do agree with the dog being put down. Its HIGHLY dangerous to just attack on a whim like that......very sad.


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## Raziel

Lilie said:


> The article stated that the child was backing away and then cried out before he dog attacked her. I assume it was that action that prompted the dog to attack. Not making excuses, just attempting to figure out what triggered the attack. I'm sure the dog has been around many children as it works in the airport.
> 
> I don't understand why the handler allowed the dog to be that close to the child. In my opinion the handler is at fault as well.


 
To me, it doesnt matter if the child was too close....THESE ARE TRAINED dogs.
It should be FRIENDLY with people!
Not want to bite them reguardless of how close they are.....
What if a mentally disabled person tried to approach the dog & the person didnt understand that the handler didnt want him any closer?
There is NO NO excuse for that. Unless someone was ATTACKING the dog or his handler.


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## sgtmom52

I am very sorry this happened to this little girl. It is a sad day for all evolved.

I actually do not think the dog should be put down solely for this incident ~ however I do not think this dog should work in a public area if it still kept on as a drug detection dog. 

Not enough information was given to understand why this happened. There may be other options for this dog.


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## heather122

Maybe the child screaming scared the dog. This does not make the attack acceptible or justified, but maybe he associated the screaming with a bad experience previous to this. Screaming child pulling his hair/tail!? Who knows, its just sad for the little girl. I'm sure now her fear of any dog is amplified. And comparing a BM to GSD, I'm sure they are only comparing looks. They maybe kinda sorta look like cousins, but yes, now our babies seem aggressive. Stories like these are why I cant get home insurance with certain insurance companies... Big ol' baby Sadie might just attack a child for no reason or provocation!


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## Kaity

Okay. Humans kill, we get jail time. Dogs BITE, they get put down.
Sorry but I don't agree with those saying that the dog needs to be put down.. You cannot just end a life like that..


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## GSDLoverII

*Biting Dog*



sgtmom52 said:


> I am very sorry this happened to this little girl. It is a sad day for all evolved.
> 
> I actually do not think the dog should be put down solely for this incident ~ however I do not think this dog should work in a public area if it still kept on as a drug detection dog.
> 
> Not enough information was given to understand why this happened. There may be other options for this dog.


\

I agree with what you said and DO NOT think the dog should be put down.


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## Konotashi

Lilie said:


> The article stated that the child was backing away and then cried out before he dog attacked her. I assume it was that action that prompted the dog to attack.


I agree.


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## ThorDog

I wonder how much socialization these dogs go through? Seems like they were training at the airport but if a dog is going to be around so many people and screaming children, that one focus of this training should be to socialize, socialize these dogs before they go into an area full of people, some of which are terrified of big dogs... they should not only focus on how good of a detection dog they are, but how good with people. As a mom I cannot imagine the horror she went through. I have known K9 trainers and military trainers and just because they were highly intelligent and trained dogs, it did not mean they were good with people.


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## selzer

I think that if you make it a policy for the dogs to be kept away from small children, the druggies and terrorists will use children to strap dope and explosives to. 

The dog messed up, probably due to a lack of socialization and the fearful child. It is too bad, but this dog really cannot be used in the same venue again. It is one thing for the dog to attack a little kid, if that same dog attacks another kid, then that would be inexcusable. 

Should the dog be put down? I think it should. If it was my dog, and a little kid required 20+ stitches and the mother had all kinds of bites all over her hand, well animal control or the courts would require the dog be euthanized. 

This is just a single incident, but it is a bad one. Rest assured if YOUR dog did this, someone would be screaming for euthanasia. I am sure some people on this board would say they would euth their dog if it did something like this. I don't know. I love my dogs, all of them, I do not know if I have the fortitude to carry through with such a statment. It would be devastating either way. 

I do not know why the handler should be reprimanded. The dog snapped, went outside its training. It is an animal. If a Mountie's horse kicked out and struck a child behind it, would it be the Mountie's fault if they were doing crowd control? Just wondering.


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## mysablegsd

This is the fault of the handler. Not the kid, not the mother, the handler.
The dog is unstable and should be put down.
The handler needs to be pulled off of K-9 duty, s/he is obviously worthless.


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## selzer

I wasn't there. If the dogs trained for this duty, are not trained in aggression/protection/schutzhund, it is not inconceivable that the handler was unable to pull the dog off right away. The handler could have been doing everything possible, it just took him/her, and the mother to finally get the dog off. 

If a dog completely goes berzerk for some reason that the handler (which we do not understand what kind of relationship they have) had no experience with, I do not know if the handler is "obviously worthless" or just a handler of a passive sniffing dog. Maybe someone who works with beagles and goldens, and the malinois was a dog that he was assigned to today. We do not know. 

While the dog is considered a k-9, I am guessing this is just a customs sniffing dog, and not a full fledged police dog. 

I am guessing wrong dog for the job at hand, and the handler was probably not equiped for the job with that dog. 

Again, I was not there, so I really cannot make any judgements.


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## Syaoransbear

I think the dog should be put down. Unless there was any indication that the trainer had trained this dog to react this way, I don't think the trainer was at fault. This wasn't just a snap, this was a snap, hold, and then an attack when the mom tried to intervene.

I think a lot of times we forget that these are animals, and even with all the training in the world they are still capable of making their own decisions. Sometimes bad ones.


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## arycrest

mysablegsd said:


> This is the fault of the handler. Not the kid, not the mother, the handler.
> The dog is unstable and should be put down.
> The handler needs to be pulled off of K-9 duty, s/he is obviously worthless.


What do you believe the handler did wrong? He's working with a dog trained in the passive mode of detection work. Why should he be held responsible because the dog he was assigned and was handling suddenly went nuts and made a full out attack of a small child?


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## arycrest

sgtmom52 said:


> ...
> I actually do not think the dog should be put down solely for this incident ~ however I do not think this dog should work in a public area if it still kept on as a drug detection dog.
> ...


As a taxpayer, I don't want my hard earned money going to pay for another biting incident by a dog who is known to be an unstable animal. Even if the dog were assigned to cargo or container work, there's no guarantee he won't be around workers other than his handler. IMHO it's just too much of a liability risk.


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## Raziel

mysablegsd said:


> This is the fault of the handler. Not the kid, not the mother, the handler.
> The dog is unstable and should be put down.
> The handler needs to be pulled off of K-9 duty, s/he is obviously worthless.


 
This is a joke. You have NO idea what you are talking about.


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## codmaster

Konotashi said:


> I agree.


 
Do you think that the kid backing up and even crying out is a reason for a "trained" dog to attack!

Just asking as I do not, under any circumstances, think that it would justify the action.

I also believe that unless someone can come up with a good explanation for the attack, the dog must be put down (or at least taken out of service among the public!).


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## Dainerra

even if the dog is around no one but his handler, I wouldn't trust the dog not to turn on the handler! 
a government agency isn't going to rehome a dog like this. It's next to impossible to get a STABLE dog that has worked for them rehomed, you think they'd risk it on one that attacked someone??


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## TitonsDad

I'd be raising stink worse than a cattle ranch infested with flies on poop. 

First, I would sue for all my child's medical expenses, then I would sue for pain and suffering on behalf of my child and then I would be asking for the dog to be put down and then I would be asking for an outside agency to monitor all training parameters for this agency's dogs/handlers from then on.


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## Qyn

The fact that the dog was given a command to "release"and did not obey suggests to me that the dog has had some sort of training which requires that command. So, IMO, either the training was not proofed or not done correctly/appropriately. 

Such a dog has no place in a crowded airport no matter what it's duty is meant to be. Plus, no matter what a child of 4yo does around such a dog (short of torture), a stable dog does not do what this dog has done - 20 stitches on a 4yo's lower abdomen suggest an attempt to disembowel the victim. 

I believe the dog should be PTS and the handler needs to take some responsibility for the dog's actions. Dogs in training need to be closely monitored, watched and corrected and never allowed the opportunity to attack anyone .... let alone a child. A trained dog may be trusted to do its job but not a dog in training and for that negligence a child has paid a large price not only physically but emotionally.


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## Dainerra

Qyn said:


> The fact that the dog was given a command to "release"and did not obey suggests to me that the dog has had some sort of training which requires that command. So, IMO, either the training was not proofed or not done correctly/appropriately.


i don't think that is necessarily the case. My dog has a release command. All dogs that I know who even do obedience have a release command. That doesn't equal that they are trained in protection/apprehension/bitework. It's just a good basic command that all dogs should know, in my opinion.


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## arycrest

Dainerra said:


> i don't think that is necessarily the case. My dog has a release command. All dogs that I know who even do obedience have a release command. That doesn't equal that they are trained in protection/apprehension/bitework. It's just a good basic command that all dogs should know, in my opinion.


I agree with you. The Hooligan's command is DROP or DROP IT and they're not even in obedience - it's just our household term for dropping whatever they may have picked up or droppng toys when it's time to come in the house. If I recall, the detector dogs are trained using a towel, toy, etc as a "treat" for doing an exercise correctly, and like you say, they need some type of command to "release" "out" "drop" the toy to start their next exercises.


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## APBTLove

I have a release command for my dogs as well, I had it or all of my dogs... None have ever been taught to bite. 

Any working dog should be taught a release command... Mine is "Out!". Any dog working near people, other animals, food, ANY dog for that matter, should be taught to drop something when told. 


The dog in this story sounds UNSTABLE. There are too many good dogs who'd never hurt a child out there, ready to work, to keep one who would around.


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## selzer

And even if the dog IS taken out of service, if it attacks another person, it will be yet another incident, reason that service dogs should not be released to the public when retired, reason for not renting to people who own them, reason to not offer home owner's insurance. 

This dog needs to be put down. There are plenty of dogs dying every day or so they say for there just not being a home for them. There is no point wasting time and resources and risking another incident for this dog. Take the time and resources and help one or several dogs that would otherwise be put down.


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## Liesje

The dog should definitely be taken out of service. Even a dog TRAINED in protection should NEVER attack a child, unprovoked, in that manner. I wouldn't say to put him down, but like other said the agency probably won't have the time or money to find the dog a new home, so he probably will get put down. The agency or whatever org was in charge should settle with the family and pay for the damages.


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## Dainerra

it's not about the "time and money to find a new home." it's a simple case of liability. even if a new owner was found that would agree to release the agency from liability, that doesn't mean a future victim wouldn't sue. It's not a risk that they are likely to take, esp given the history of the dog


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## Qyn

Dainerra said:


> i don't think that is necessarily the case. My dog has a release command. All dogs that I know who even do obedience have a release command. That doesn't equal that they are trained in protection/apprehension/bitework. It's just a good basic command that all dogs should know, in my opinion.


Quynne knows "Drop it" and "leave it" and "ok" but I don't think she would associate those commands in circumstances like this, which sounds like a full blown attack. While I use those words technically as a "release", I have never considered them in that light for this kind of situation. An out or let go in whatever language is what I was considering was being used or had been taught. A very frightening and sad situation for all concerned.


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## Stevenzachsmom

This child was already afraid of dogs. Just imagine how she feels now. I hope there is someone who can help her to get over her fear of dogs. I am sorry for all involved.


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## AgileGSD

What a sad story all around.
It brings to mind that, whenever I have gone to the Louisville dog shows, the Louisville PD has a educational booth set up. There are different k9 dogs and officers there and the dogs are always muzzled. I asked (I'm sure lots of people do) and they said for liability reasons, they are required to muzzle their dogs in public settings. None of the dogs have ever seemed aggressive towards people but I remembering thinking one or two seemed likely to be dog aggressive.

It would seem that this dog might be able to continue to work muzzled, maybe "behind the scenes" or in a different sort of setting.


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## AgileGSD

My first thought is this bite may be the result of "predatory drift" (and obviously redirected aggression onto the mother when she tried to help her child). If the child was panicked and moving back quickly, that could have triggered predatory behavior in the dog. I'm not saying that makes it ok at all, just a thought as to a possible "why" this could have occured.


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## arycrest

AgileGSD said:


> ...
> It would seem that this dog might be able to continue to work muzzled, maybe "behind the scenes" or in a different sort of setting.


Could a muzzled detector dog do his job properly if he needs to put his nose in tight areas? Also would the odor of the muzzle interfer when what he's trained to detect?


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## Dainerra

Qyn said:


> Quynne knows "Drop it" and "leave it" and "ok" but I don't think she would associate those commands in circumstances like this, which sounds like a full blown attack. While I use those words technically as a "release", I have never considered them in that light for this kind of situation. An out or let go in whatever language is what I was considering was being used or had been taught. A very frightening and sad situation for all concerned.


exactly. but, if a dog isn't trained as an attack dog, then the only thing that the trainer could probably think of is "drop it" or "leave it" or whatever command they use. Or the reporter could be saying that the dog didn't release on command and all the panicked trainer was doing, in reality, was yelling "No! Let her go!" I can see either one of those as a likely scenario. 

I've used "leave it" to stop Rayden from attacking another dog that he thought was going to hurt the kids. He had her on the ground and was biting her. He knows that "leave it" means "don't touch" so it works.


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## Qyn

Dainerra, I'm not disagreeing with you, just explaining my interpretation of what was reported and I also have used commands to let my dog know what is acceptable prior to any confrontation. But I am also watching my dog (and myself) to ensure that I don't get close enough to have anything untoward happen - this is not only to protect any bystander (dog or human) but for my dog's sake as well. 

I don't want to make this about my dog but I would never want to have Quynne put into the same circumstances and while I can almost 100% guarantee she would not do what this dog did to a human, I make sure I have better control over Quynne than what this dogs handler obviously had over this dog. My dog is never closer to any thing that I cannot stop her connecting with and she is not an aggressive dog but she is a fearful dog especially with small off-leash dogs.

Kudos to you being able to get your dog to stop biting another dog with a verbal command.


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## arycrest

Qyn said:


> ...
> I don't want to make this about my dog but I would never want to have Quynne put into the same circumstances and while I can almost 100% guarantee she would not do what this dog did to a human, I make sure I have better control over Quynne than what this dogs handler obviously had over this dog. My dog is never closer to any thing that I cannot stop her connecting with and she is not an aggressive dog but she is a fearful dog especially with small off-leash dogs.
> ,,.


I don't think it's fair for us to be comparing our "untrained" dogs to a working dog and his handler. IMHO the big difference here is that Quynne isn't a detector dog doing her job and you're not a dog handler doing your job. Like most of us posting on these boards, you're a pet owner ensuring that your pet dog behaves in public settings. 

From what I've seen it requires a loose lead and a handler paying attention to the actions of the dog, looking for his/her passive signal that the dog's made a hit. The last thing that should be on a handler's mind is that the detector dog should suddenly go berserk and attack a small child (or anyone for that matter). The dog in question is unstable and not fit to work in any area.


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## AgileGSD

arycrest said:


> Could a muzzled detector dog do his job properly if he needs to put his nose in tight areas? Also would the odor of the muzzle interfer when what he's trained to detect?


I don't think a quality leather and metal basket muzzle would interfer with the dog's scenting ability:
Belgian Malinois Muzzle : Dog muzzle, Leather dog muzzles, Wire dog muzzle, dog muzzle training, Basket dog muzzle, small dog muzzle, Dog leashes

After reading an article on the Belgian forum about this incident, I think there could be a chance that the bite occured in part due to "predatory drift". The child's actions triggered a predatory reaction in the dog - perhaps this dog had never been around children before (big mistake on the trainer's part) or had very limited experience. Interestingly the mother said that she doesn't feel the dog is "bad" and just feels more precuations such as muzzling should be taken in the future.


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## Gib Laut

I agree with Liesje.....it's a sad story, but to blame the dog is unfair. If anything, it is the human's fault and we shouldn't just jump to putting a dog down so quickly..... full assessment of the events is necessary and perhaps this dog is not suited for that kind of work; that's what training tells us sometimes about temperament.


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## Lilie

The handler has to assume some of the fault. He/she was in charge of that dog. If the handler wasn't trained to handle a situation like this, then he/she was under trained. If my dog (working or not) had a child in his mouth - I promise you I'd be on him so heavy that the mother would not have gotten the opportunity to have been bitten. What was the handler doing while the mother was attempting to save her child?


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## Raziel

arycrest said:


> I don't think it's fair for us to be comparing our "untrained" dogs to a working dog and his handler. IMHO the big difference here is that Quynne isn't a detector dog doing her job and you're not a dog handler doing your job. Like most of us posting on these boards, you're a pet owner ensuring that your pet dog behaves in public settings.
> 
> From what I've seen it requires a loose lead and a handler paying attention to the actions of the dog, looking for his/her passive signal that the dog's made a hit. The last thing that should be on a handler's mind is that the detector dog should suddenly go berserk and attack a small child (or anyone for that matter). The dog in question is unstable and not fit to work in any area.


 

RIGHT ON!
As mean as it sounds, the dog must be put down. Its not a safe animal.


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## mysablegsd

Lilie said:


> The handler has to assume some of the fault. He/she was in charge of that dog. If the handler wasn't trained to handle a situation like this, then he/she was under trained. If my dog (working or not) had a child in his mouth - I promise you I'd be on him so heavy that the mother would not have gotten the opportunity to have been bitten. What was the handler doing while the mother was attempting to save her child?


 
The handler has to assume all of the fault.
For the handler to stand there yelling out while the mother tried to save her child is beyond belief.

The handler should be FIRED. S/he obviously has the judgment and reactions of a kumquat.

The dog needs to be put down. Sumpin wrong with that dog that would try and kill a kid with no provacation.

And the airport better find a new supplier of dogs and handlers.


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## doggiedad

yeah, you've got to watch that human race, they can
make dogs do crazy things.



Liesje said:


> If anyone is at fault, it's the human race in general for thinking we can predict every single behavior and move that an animal is going to make.


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## selzer

My guess is that this went down really fast, and the handler was shocked at what was happening, and it actually took both he and the mother to get the malinois of the kid. 

Malinois were being purchased as police dogs for a while there, maybe not more than GSDs but they were becoming very popular with law enforcement. My little town here has one. I get the understanding that they are like a GSD on steroids (but smaller). Super high drive, super high energy. I have also heard that a lot of police departments are going back to GSDs. 

What I do not understand is the idea that some have that no dog ever should be put down. This dog did its best to disembowel a child. Sorry, but this dog does not need a muzzle, it needs a trip to the vet. 

Unless we know a whole lot more about how the dog was housed, and with whom (handler), how long the handler had worked with the dog, how much training the handler and the dog had, I do not think we can point the finger with such surety at the handler. This may have been the handler's first day with anything more exciting than a beagle. We do not know. If this was a beagle, and it did the same thing, would you immediately attack the handler? 

I look at it like a dog fight where there is more than one person, those of us who are around dogs, might grab for the back legs and pull one dog while the other goes for the back legs of the other. But if you are just getting in there, the dog is biting, you cannot litterally pull the dog apart from the child. Several bites could have happened in a matter of seconds while the handler was trying to pull back on the lead, and the mother was trying to free the child. We do not know. But we can armchair handle the dog without all the facts, and send the handler to the gallows, and fit the dog with a muzzle. 

Yeah, I know that is extreme, but this dog tried to kill a child. It had not been trained to do this as far as we know. I would put such a dog down. It is unsafe. Muzzles are only as good as the person installing it on the dog. If the dog is truly unpredictable, the owner, down the line, may deem the muzzle unnecessary, and this dog can seriously injure again or kill.


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## APBTLove

Is there any update on this? 

When it comes to dogs like this... I call it a sickness. The dog is sick in the head.. And he needs a trip to the vet or a last walk in the woods with his handler.


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## Raziel

selzer said:


> My guess is that this went down really fast, and the handler was shocked at what was happening, and it actually took both he and the mother to get the malinois of the kid.
> 
> Malinois were being purchased as police dogs for a while there, maybe not more than GSDs but they were becoming very popular with law enforcement. My little town here has one. I get the understanding that they are like a GSD on steroids (but smaller). Super high drive, super high energy. I have also heard that a lot of police departments are going back to GSDs.
> 
> What I do not understand is the idea that some have that no dog ever should be put down. This dog did its best to disembowel a child. Sorry, but this dog does not need a muzzle, it needs a trip to the vet.
> 
> Unless we know a whole lot more about how the dog was housed, and with whom (handler), how long the handler had worked with the dog, how much training the handler and the dog had, I do not think we can point the finger with such surety at the handler. This may have been the handler's first day with anything more exciting than a beagle. We do not know. If this was a beagle, and it did the same thing, would you immediately attack the handler?
> 
> I look at it like a dog fight where there is more than one person, those of us who are around dogs, might grab for the back legs and pull one dog while the other goes for the back legs of the other. But if you are just getting in there, the dog is biting, you cannot litterally pull the dog apart from the child. Several bites could have happened in a matter of seconds while the handler was trying to pull back on the lead, and the mother was trying to free the child. We do not know. But we can armchair handle the dog without all the facts, and send the handler to the gallows, and fit the dog with a muzzle.
> 
> Yeah, I know that is extreme, but this dog tried to kill a child. It had not been trained to do this as far as we know. I would put such a dog down. It is unsafe. Muzzles are only as good as the person installing it on the dog. If the dog is truly unpredictable, the owner, down the line, may deem the muzzle unnecessary, and this dog can seriously injure again or kill.


Again, you say it best.


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## Raziel

I dont get is the people AGAINST putting the dog to sleep....
If YOUR dog did this to a child WOULD you NOT put it to sleep?
I know I WOULD if my dog did.
It cant be trusted........
IT IS AN UNSTABLE ANIMAL.
We all love our dogs & pets but thats what they are...ANIMALS....and if my PET ,MY BEST FRIEND EVER mauled a little child....I would have no choice but to put him down....


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## AgileGSD

Raziel said:


> I dont get is the people AGAINST putting the dog to sleep....
> If YOUR dog did this to a child WOULD you NOT put it to sleep?
> I know I WOULD if my dog did.
> It cant be trusted........
> IT IS AN UNSTABLE ANIMAL.
> We all love our dogs & pets but thats what they are...ANIMALS....and if my PET ,MY BEST FRIEND EVER mauled a little child....I would have no choice but to put him down....


 The mother of the kid doesn't think the dog should be put to sleep. I don't think one can really say over the computer not knowing the dog or being able to evaluate the situation what should be done. To say the dog "tried to disembowel the child" or "this dog tried to kill this child" seems like it is a bit of a dramatization based in emotion. This was not a mauling, it was a bite. I'm not saying what happened was all right, obviously it isn't. But I'm also not going to say that handler shouldn't be handling detection dogs or that the dog needs to die. I don't know enough about the handler or the dog or what happened to make that sort of assumption.


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## AgileGSD

This article says the dog has been sent back to the training facility:

"The dog, a Belgian malinois, was in training at the CBP's training facility in Front Royal. Dogs from that facility are frequently brought to Dulles for real world training and experience. In this situation, the handler had brought the dog to the domestic baggage area for training.
The dog has been returned to the Front Royal training facility." Four-Year-Old Bitten by Dog at Dulles | NBC Washington


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## codmaster

AgileGSD said:


> This was not a mauling, it was a bite. I'm not saying what happened was all right, obviously it isn't. But I'm also not going to say that handler shouldn't be handling detection dogs or that the dog needs to die. I don't know enough about the handler or the dog or what happened to make that sort of assumption.


A big aggressive dog attacking a 4 year old is by definition a mauling! From the story it was also a totally unprovoked attack with the child backing away from the dog.

Would you trust this dog to play with YOUR 4 yo child?

With the facts as we read them, the dog MUST be put down unfortunately. No one should have to bear the risk of a further attack.

Or maybe we can just send the dog to Cesar's pack!


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## selzer

"
9NEWS NOW has learned she has received more than 20 stitches to her mid section as a result of the attack.
The younger child was not involved in the attack.
The girl has been released from the hospital into the care of her family. 
"He attacked her, pulled her to the ground and bit her in the stomach and wouldn't let go of her," her mother says."

20 stitches in the mid section suggests a mauling to me, not just a bite. 

I would like to say that I would put the dog down if it was mine. I cannot guarantee that I would be able to. I mean, I would probably be searching for some type of excuse, and looking for some way that I could keep the dog and keep people safe from the dog. Just because I love my dogs and would hate for any of them to be put down while still healthy. 

And yet, the very real liability of such a dog makes me believe it is better to just put them down. 

I did put a dog down for aggression. At the time, I had kids living next door and did not have the kennels that I have now. After I was certain that the dog would bite, as he bit me, I put him out of his misery. He was a sick/hurting dog.

If my dog bit a kid, caused a few stitches, there was a reason. then yeah, maybe I would try to work with the dog, and keep it safe. But a viscious attack on a small kid, would not let go, if it were mine, I would put it down.


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## Qyn

arycrest said:


> I don't think it's fair for us to be comparing our "untrained" dogs to a working dog and his handler. IMHO the big difference here is that Quynne isn't a detector dog doing her job and you're not a dog handler doing your job. Like most of us posting on these boards, you're a pet owner ensuring that your pet dog behaves in public settings.
> 
> From what I've seen it requires a loose lead and a handler paying attention to the actions of the dog, looking for his/her passive signal that the dog's made a hit. The last thing that should be on a handler's mind is that the detector dog should suddenly go berserk and attack a small child (or anyone for that matter). The dog in question is unstable and not fit to work in any area.


This dog was not a detector dog, it was a "detector dog in training" and if this dog was not temperament tested before being admitted to this training then it was no better (and is, in fact, worse) than a pet owner ensuring their dog behaves in a public setting. I agree totally with your last sentence. 

I would be devastated if this dog was mine but I also put my dog to sleep at my vet. Such a dog could be managed and never, ever bite another creature but it does require a lot of diligence which not everyone is capable of providing.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion so, IMO, sometimes the effort put into saving unstable dogs would be more productive if it was put towards saving the many stable dogs who are PTS every day. I'm not posting on this thread anymore, as it is about a situation we do not have the full facts and most comments are based upon supposition and interpretation of the little amount of information we have been given. 

I hope the little girl is able to move on from the fact that the thing she was most frightened of happening with a dog ....... really did happen.


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## AgileGSD

codmaster said:


> A big aggressive dog attacking a 4 year old is by definition a mauling! From the story it was also a totally unprovoked attack with the child backing away from the dog.
> 
> Would you trust this dog to play with YOUR 4 yo child?
> 
> With the facts as we read them, the dog MUST be put down unfortunately. No one should have to bear the risk of a further attack.
> 
> Or maybe we can just send the dog to Cesar's pack!


 I got bit in a similar area as this kid when I was maybe 6 by the neighbors dog. He was tied up and I had a treat for him, he kept lunging, I kept pulling back and then he grabbed me. I don't think I was "mauled" by any stretch of the imagination but I was bitten badly enough to need stitches. One bite from a dog can do certainly do a lot of damage (thankfully this bite isn't nearly as bad as it could have been) but it isn't a mauling. Mauling implies an attack involving multiple bites resulting in serious/severe injuries or death.


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## Raziel

AgileGSD said:


> I got bit in a similar area as this kid when I was maybe 6 by the neighbors dog. He was tied up and I had a treat for him, he kept lunging, I kept pulling back and then he grabbed me. I don't think I was "mauled" by any stretch of the imagination but I was bitten badly enough to need stitches. One bite from a dog can do certainly do a lot of damage (thankfully this bite isn't nearly as bad as it could have been) but it isn't a mauling. Mauling implies an attack involving multiple bites resulting in serious/severe injuries or death.


 
UM WOW. What dont you get about the severity of this attack?
Why are you so blind?
The dog didnt just NIP at her hand or arm or leg,
IT GRABBED her my the mid section and DID NOT LET GO.
That is a serious bite.
Why dont you see that?
There is not always a medical problem with dogs who bite.
Some dogs are just unstable.


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## AgileGSD

Raziel said:


> UM WOW. What dont you get about the severity of this attack?
> Why are you so blind?
> The dog didnt just NIP at her hand or arm or leg,
> IT GRABBED her my the mid section and DID NOT LET GO.
> That is a serious bite.
> Why dont you see that?
> There is not always a medical problem with dogs who bite.
> Some dogs are just unstable.


 I see no reason for you to get so bent out of shape about my replies. I don't have to agree with you, regardless of the topic.

I never said the dog "nipped", just that the dog bit and didn't "maul" or "try to kill" or "disembowel" the girl. I also never said that I thought the dog had a medical issue. If anything, I may have mentioned predatory drift as a possible explanation for what happened. Like I said, I was bitten in a similar manner when I was about 6 by a smaller dog and needed stitches as well, thought not as many. I never said it was ok for the dog to bite, as obviously it isn't. I do think it is interesting that the girl's mother said she didn't feel the dog was "bad" and isn't calling for the dog to be killed, just that she thinks there needs to be more precautions taken with the customs dogs in general.


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## selzer

My sister was bitten like you were, in the chest, one time by a dog that was chained. It was a friends dog and she called after him that she was going to pet the dog as he went into the house. Stupid, maybe, but she was a kid. She went to the hospital and they put a shunt in for drainage -- 1 or 2 stitches. We did not require it, but they put their dog down. This was a chained pet, being petted by a stranger.

This kid had 20 stitches, would not let go, and bit the mother several times too. That is a mauling in my opinion. 

It does no one any favors to keep an unstable dog around to do it again. In your opinion, what does a dog need to do to get the needle? Kill a three year old like the American bulldog did on the other thread? Do you think that if Mom and the handler were not there, that this dog would have stopped short of killing this little girl? 

While I did not read the thread yet, I am off to read the threat APBT posted about GSDs being added to a breed bad. 

It is VERY REAL. Dogs that are serious threats need to be euthanized. I am talking about dogs that have caused serious injuries. When I hear about a dog attacking a second time, it is extremely frustrating. 

While none of us will sign the order for this dog. We have to keep it in the back of our own minds that if OUR dog does something like this we have to step up to the plate. Hopefully, by keeping it present in our minds we will step up to the plate when we see issues and provide the training, the bahaviorist, the medical tests, etc, etc, BEFORE the dog all out attacks someone.


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## mysablegsd

Dog should be put down.
Handler fired or reassigned to a desk, forever.


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## mysablegsd

Gib Laut said:


> I agree with Liesje.....it's a sad story, but to blame the dog is unfair. If anything, it is the human's fault and we shouldn't just jump to putting a dog down so quickly..... full assessment of the events is necessary and perhaps this dog is not suited for that kind of work; that's what training tells us sometimes about temperament.


 
What kind of job description is there for dogs that attack small children with no warning and won't out?


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## selzer

Why does the handler have to go down with the dog? 

Was the handler the person in charge of training the dog, or an employee of the airport? Because it makes a difference. If this handler was working with this dog for the day, then it is kind of like his being provided a defective piece of equipment to work with.

While this was a mauling, a dog can provide bites that require lots of stitches very quickly. We weren't there and did not see what all the handler was doing to release the child. 

If the handler was the person in charge of training this dog at the school, then MAYBE they need a desk job.

The thing is, you cannot train a dog to frisk people for drugs, without the dog ever getting up close and personal. If the dog has a trigger of little girls who back up, maybe they would know this, probably not, until it happened. If the dog is totally unpredictable, then this may have been the first situation that the dog showed any issue. 

If they are using shelter dogs, a lot of shelter dogs come out of the shelter and are not quite themselves until they settle into their new life. This could be days, it could be a month or more. It is just possible that they NEVER saw anything to indicate the dog was aggressive.

At the point of the attack, it simply may have taken both the mother and the handler to disengage the dog and the child. 

Not being there, I think it is a bit rich to say that the handler should be fired or have a desk job. There are just too many unknowns.


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## selzer

The dog is not suited to walk down the street on leash. I am not sure what else there is for such a dog.


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## AgileGSD

selzer said:


> My sister was bitten like you were, in the chest, one time by a dog that was chained. It was a friends dog and she called after him that she was going to pet the dog as he went into the house. Stupid, maybe, but she was a kid. She went to the hospital and they put a shunt in for drainage -- 1 or 2 stitches. We did not require it, but they put their dog down. This was a chained pet, being petted by a stranger.


 The dog that bit me was allowed to live and never bit anyone else, lived with multiple kids too. The owners got better about managing him when their kids had friends over and I learned to be more cautious of interacting with chained dogs. I had been trying to give the dog a bone that got out of his reach but kept backing away when he lunged to get it. Dog got frustrated and I got bit. 



selzer said:


> This kid had 20 stitches, would not let go, and bit the mother several times too. That is a mauling in my opinion.


 The mother likely was "bitten" trying to pry the dog's mouth open. I don't think the law would agree with your definition of a mauling (obviously not or the headline would have read "US Customs Dog MAULS Toddler").


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## Dainerra

the problem, though, is that this dog belongs to a government agency. They will not rehome the dog due to liability issues, esp after an attack like this. It can not work like it was intended to. Therefore, more than likely the dog will be put down. 

It's not that no one here thinks that the dog could be managed by the right person, with the exact training and circumstances. It's just that the chances of that are pretty much nil. And I think that we can all agree that the dog is not cut out to work in such an important public capacity


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## selzer

I guess I do not understand the term "maul."

I look at a bite as one where the dog closes his jaws, breaks the skin or causes bruising, and releases right away, that is a bite. Two or three bites would be the same but, just repeated. 

I thought mauling is where the dog bites down, and then shakes his head while biting down, bites continuously, or refuses to release what they have bitten. 

A dog that bites someone, can be pulled away with the lead because the jaws release right away. A dog that mauls is ripping and tearing and not releasing. 

So does anyone have a better definition of biting and mauling?


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## AgileGSD

selzer said:


> So does anyone have a better definition of biting and mauling?


 According this a "mauling" would be a dog attack resulting in serious injury or death, which was my understanding of it:
*"New dog-mauling statute tested *


Prosecutors in Stephens County tried a heartbreaking case where a 7-year-old boy was mauled to death by four dogs. 



By Stephen Bristow 


Former District Attorney in Young and Stephens Counties


In 2007, the Texas Legislature passed “Lillian’s Law,” which holds owners accountable for serious injuries or death caused by their dogs. It is named after Lillian Stiles, who was attacked and killed by dogs in her front yard as she tended her garden."


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## Dainerra

by definition, a mauling is simply a bad injury. it doesn't have to be even close to death, so I would definitely call this little girls wound a mauling.

I still say, though, it doesn't matter how badly the little girl was injured. The dog is a liability issue for it's owning agency. They can't rehome it, they can't use it for the work that it was purchased (likely), so what can they do with it?


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## Qyn

Qyn said:


> ....I would be devastated if this dog was mine but I also put my dog to sleep at my vet.


I know I said I would not post again but I picked up a typo in my post above which should have read 

"I would be devastated if this dog was mine but I would also put my dog to sleep at my vet if this dog was my dog."

I have not yet put a dog down for aggression and I hope that never is the case.


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## Dainerra

actually, Selzer explained earlier that she put one of her own dogs to sleep for biting. So it's not a typo at all. If this dog belonged to her, it would be devastating, but she has put one dog to sleep for a similar problem and would do it again.


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## AgileGSD

Dainerra said:


> by definition, a mauling is simply a bad injury. it doesn't have to be even close to death, so I would definitely call this little girls wound a mauling.


You can call it what you want but it doesn't mean it's correct.The bite and 20 stitches is a terrible thing for a little girl to go through but maulings generally describe life threatening or extrememly serious injuries caused by an attack. In the article on the the new "Dog Mauling Law" I posted above the boy was bitten 75+ times. If you do a google search on dog maulings, you will get stories of similar attacks - victims bitten multiple times, victims disfigured or killed by dogs.


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## Dainerra

but, what the news calls a "mauling" isn't exactly a definition. I'm just going by the actual dictionary definition of what "mauling" means. so, it's more a matter of personal view, just like any other descriptive word.

Some people might view 10 stitches to the face as a mauling. Some might view nothing short of Life/Death a mauling. 
The words used to describe what happened to this little girl do not change the fact that this was an UNPROVOKED attack. The dog has shown a predisposition to react violently to small children The dog refused to obey the handler's attempts to get the dog to release. It took 2 people to get the dog away from the girl. 

Those alone would be enough to make me put down my own dog. The fact that this dog belongs to an agency means that, more than likely, they will put the dog down. It's a simple matter of liability. Even if they rehomed the dog with a responsible person, if the dog DID attack again, the victim could sue the agency.


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## selzer

No Frodo's bite did not cause any stitches, it was to me in the hand. He was just telling me he did not like what I did. So it was nothing similar to what happened here. 

If I had Frodo today, it would never have happened. I know a little more about GSDs and a little more about leadership, and a little more about training. But Frodo was getting progressively worse because he was in serious pain. I should have amputated his shattered leg, but we (the vet and I) decided to try to let the shattered femur heal, which it did, but crooked. He would hold it up and had serious pain in it for years. 

So his fuse was short, anyway. He started out very high energy, very dominant, working line/BYB lines puppy. And I was a novice GSD owner, too soft, and then with the bad leg, I really could not take him to classes or walk the snot out of him. 

So he got progressively worse until the day that he closed around my wrist, (did not break the skin), I persisted, and he closed on my hand breaking the skin on a few fingers. No stitches. Just a warning. 

I put him down because I really did not know what else to do. I take responsibility for his complete sad situation. He had snarled and growled at children, and at my sister, but never actually bit anyone else. But I felt that he had escalated and was a liability.

At the same time it was nothing like what happened with this little girl.


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## Qyn

Dainerra said:


> actually, Selzer explained earlier that she put one of her own dogs to sleep for biting. So it's not a typo at all. If this dog belonged to her, it would be devastating, but she has put one dog to sleep for a similar problem and would do it again.


Danierra, I am editing my own post ... nothing to do with anything Selzer has posted. So yes, it is a typing error as I myself have not put down a dog for aggression but I imagine it would be devastating for most people in any circumstance.


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## valreegrl

I don't understand the debate on whether or not it was a "mauling". 
This little girl was seriously injured by the dog. Imagine if this dog was not on the end of a leash! Circumstances could have been very different. 

My husband was mauled when he was 5. Viciously attacked by a bull dog, who managed to tear his face in half along with his ear and multiple puncture wounds around his head. He was at a t-ball game when the dog broke away from his owner and ran him down in the middle of the field. Just wrong place at the wrong time. Never had any interaction with this dog in the past nor that day. 
It took the baseball coach, owner and a few other parents to get the dog off of him using a baseball bat for leverage to pry his mouth from my husband's head. 

And THAT dog was not euth'd! And had gone on to bite two more children although not as horrific.
Granted, that was in the early 80's but still....have we not learned?


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