# Help me find the right GSD



## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

Hi,

this is my first post here, I decided to register after I realized I have a stronger and stronger desire to purchase a GSD after days of diving more and more deeply to all this lot of information. I might buy a german shepherd in about 6 mths as long as certain conditions are met so this post is the beginning of "doing my homework". So far I know what I want, I'd like to ask you where to look for it in terms of bloodlines/pedigree:


*Location*

I'm living in the UK but originally I am from Slovakia and I want to buy my dog in Central Europe (Slovakia, Czech rep., Hungary, maybe Southern Poland) due to the huge price difference

*Main goal*

good quality/price ratio, I am prepared to pay more for a good dog but in local terms (i.e. not multiplies of the average registered GSD price in Slovakia)

*Drive*

Imo very important to choose a dog with suitable drive. I've dropped the border collie because I don't think I could handle it. What I think I could handle is somewhere on the "toned down WSL" - "normal WSL" - "toned down GWL" spectrum I am just not sure where. Any comparison of these to the border collie in terms of drive? Maybe that would help.

*Appearance and health:*

First the less important, I would like I nice classic coloured GSD, black and red/tan (maybe also some ligher coloured areas)

Slope and angulation is quite important though. I definitelly want my dog to have a back with slope but I really nothing extreme in terms of slope, nor I like the banana shaped backs, I'm not sure if even GSL would be the right direction in my opinion, I might be mistaken but I just want my dog to be OK and healthy. Seen some pics of western working line with straight (not curved) back with slope that seemed to be perfect like "VA3 Xitta vom Kirschental" (also her colour is really nice)

*Nerves/Temperament*

Yeah, I'd definitely want a stable dog with good nerves but I think it's self-explanatory. It should be more of a one man dog compared to e.g. a golden retriever but should not be aggressive toward other people or animals (I know a lot depends on socialisation)

===========================

I think my drive and temperament requirements are pointing me away from working lines but at the same time I feel that I would more likely find a healthier dog (both in terms of physical appearance and genetically) that would look more ideally if I picked a working line one. Again, I might be mistaken but this is what I think is statistically true.

Maybe a toned down west german working line dog would be OK, the question is if it would be toned down enough?? Any other suggestions?

(Sorry for the long post, I just have an idea of what I want and it takes space to describe it really... also I did not intend to offend any dog, breeder or line, hope I did not)


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## Speedy2662 (May 27, 2012)

Sorry, but do you expect us to find you a dog? :O Just kidding. The temperament depends on the parents and how you train it...
go on gumtree if you want to look for a dog to buy and ask the breeder about the parents


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

Speedy2662 said:


> Sorry, but do you expect us to find you a dog? :O Just kidding. The temperament depends on the parents and how you train it...
> go on gumtree if you want to look for a dog to buy and ask the breeder about the parents


No don't misunderstand me, I think I was just a bit too specific. I will find a dog, I know that a lot of what I was talking about depends on the actual pedigree and the personality of the actual dog, what I'm asking is where, in which subset of the breed I'll be likely to find a dog that will suit me so that I can narrow my search... if that makes sense


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## Speedy2662 (May 27, 2012)

Ah, okay. Hope people can help you out here. Good luck!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Really, it sounds like you will be fine with any type of GSD you get as long as you are buying from a reputable breeder who puts temperment first and you are very honest and clear with your goals and expectations of the dog. As a general rule, working line will have higher drive, but so much also depends on the individual dog. I don't think it will matter one way or the other for you as long as you don't overstate what you are wanting from your dog.

Are you fluent in Slovak or Czech ("from" could mean any number of things...you moved to the UK at 6 months or 26 years of age)? Obviously having no language barrier will make things much easier. There are a lot of good GSD breeders in Slovakia and the Czech Republic--you should not have a problem finding one.

I got one of my dogs from Aritar Bastet in the CZ and I was very happy with the process and am very happy with my dog, although I wouldn't consider him a "beginner" dog (but that is not what I wanted!). But he's got a great overall temperment (ie not dog reactive, social but doesn't act like a lab, etc) so as long as you are clear with the breeder as to what you are looking for I think he delivers nicely.

Here is the thread for our BH video that we recently did

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/braggs/193351-medo-aritar-bastet-bh-video.html


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Justine) and will say no more other than good luck in your search)


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

Thank you both for the input. 

To be honest I thought you will be a bit more concerned about whether GSDs are OK for me in terms of drive but it seems like it will be just fine 

Generally speaking I am fluent in Slovak/Czech, maybe after such a long time (10 yrs spent outside Slovakia) I will have problems to discuss such a specific topic like right now I have no idea how I would translate "drive" lol.. but nothing that I could not manage.

If the opinions in the posts will stay this consistent I will go for west german working line with the desired shape and colouring and will discuss my drive/temperament needs with the breeder so that he can help me to choose the right puppy.

BTW the funny thing will be to find someone dealing with west german working line these countries being full of (afaik) Czech/Slovak and maybe DDR lines, some GSLs... Elsa I'm honestly wondering how you found what you were looking for if you don't speak Czech, I was trying to find some information but the Slovak/Czech part of internet just seems to be so fragmented and chaotic lol  (well on the other hand I've already found an oficial list of Slovak breeders and some of them have a webpage so that could be a good starting point)


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

first off - the black and red saddle is going to be much harder to find in a working line....

there are some Czech/Slovak kennels with good websites and owners who can speak English...a few sell alot internationally and charge "American" prices....perhaps with you being Slovak, you can find a pup at a more regional price point ....

Germany should be fairly easy to get to for you tho.....and seriously, I would recommend the WG Show line as it seems to be what you prefer - ie, the VA Kirschental female....last year, I paid E600 for a puppy from Germany - but the fees and exchange rates and transport brought that up to USD 2000 + .... so remember to keep that all in perspective when you look in Europe!

Lee


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Masi's (in my avatar) mom was imported from slovakia, she is a helga v eurosportu, (maybe eurosport?) I have a copy of her slovak papers, but darn if I can read them either)) 

Anyhow, again good luck in your search, maybe someone here can recommend some kennels over there to check out?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Tom888 said:


> Thank you both for the input.
> 
> To be honest I thought you will be a bit more concerned about whether GSDs are OK for me in terms of drive but it seems like it will be just fine


You post was well thought out and included a good deal of info that showed you had done a decent amount of research 




Tom888 said:


> Generally speaking I am fluent in Slovak/Czech, maybe after such a long time (10 yrs spent outside Slovakia) I will have problems to discuss such a specific topic like right now I have no idea how I would translate "drive" lol.. but nothing that I could not manage.


I imagine most well known breeders speak enough English that they are familiar with the popular words to describe temperment so between that and you speaking the language you should be golden!



Tom888 said:


> If the opinions in the posts will stay this consistent I will go for west german working line with the desired shape and colouring and will discuss my drive/temperament needs with the breeder so that he can help me to choose the right puppy.
> 
> BTW the funny thing will be to find someone dealing with west german working line these countries being full of (afaik) Czech/Slovak and maybe DDR lines, some GSLs...


Most good Czech/Slovak breeders have recognized the need to bring new blood into their lines so a lot of what you will find is a Czech/WG working cross (my boy is about 3/4 Czech, 1/4 WG). I don't think that will will find so much of a difference that you should worry too much over Czech and WG. There are some differences, but really it's all about the individual breedings.




Tom888 said:


> Elsa I'm honestly wondering how you found what you were looking for if you don't speak Czech, I was trying to find some information but the Slovak/Czech part of internet just seems to be so fragmented and chaotic lol


I wasn't specifically looking for a Czech breeder, it's just kind of how it worked out! It was a breeder I had been interested in for awhile, and it just happened when I was ready for a puppy someone who had a lot of experience with this breeder (cliffson on this forum) was importing a puppy at the same time. And it worked out nicely as Zybnek's English is pretty decent. I get updates on Medo's littermate he still owns and he always promptly responds to my email updates. I mean, we are never going to have a long philosophical conversation on GSD's, but the communication is clear enough we make it happen, lol! I don't need my breeder to be my BFF, but I do appreciate that I feel like he cares about Medo and the fact I got a good dog...not just that he made a buck and doesn't care what happens beyond that.

I couldn't give any other specific recommendations since A.B. is the only one I have experience with, but Cliff (Cliffson) has imported from several different breeders in the area and I think Zybnek and other contacts he has provide him with a pretty good scoop on who is good and who isn't.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

In regards to Lee's post, when I got Medo the price was $950 US and with shipping, customs fees, and gas to drive to Philadelphia to pick him up the total cost was around $1400. But I also know of a breeder who has a broker in the US who charges over $2000 per puppy (NOT including shipping!). Just like buying a dog in the US (and I'm sure the UK), prices vary insanely! And I have no idea of there are a lot of heafty fees to import to the UK


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> Germany should be fairly easy to get to for you tho.....and seriously, I would recommend the WG Show line as it seems to be what you prefer - ie, the VA Kirschental female
> Lee


Yeah basically you are right, thinking about it maybe I just wanted to rationalise the decision to get a working bloodline dog as today I've read/seen quite a lot of info and opinions on the angulation/slope topic and probably got sucked in by the "half dog half frog" crowd. Well the good part is now after realizing this I will still put more emphasis on avoiding extremes/extremes breeding but most likely I will find a showline with a straighter back easier than a working line with temperament and drive suitable for me.

Will look at both maybe with an emphasis on GSL, just needed the second thoughs to come through. Thanks for the input.


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

I've got to say guys you really have to pay a huge price to get an import puppy so I just wish you that what you got is what you were looking for 

Also I hope the pupps are drugged during their journey (if transported as cargo what's common on EU airlines that carry pets), I know it's not too healthy but I can imagine the trauma such a journey can cause to a puppy if not.


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Masi's (in my avatar) mom was imported from slovakia, she is a helga v eurosportu, (maybe eurosport?) I have a copy of her slovak papers, but darn if I can read them either))


You need help translating? lol


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Pups are pretty resilient - if they can't take the trip, you probably are not getting a good pup!! I have brought over a few for myself and others and never had a problem...

Be sure that you understand what you are getting if you get a WL from CR or Slovakia.....from your description, you would be better off with the drives of a showline.....your top priority should be good nerves and stable temperament - the high drive dogs sometimes have a thinner nerve strength and are more reactive .....

Lee


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Airlines won't take dogs that have been given a sedative except in special circumstances. Seems that the nervous system cannot compensated for the pressure changes if the dogs are sedated, and there is a higher risk of death in sedated pups than non-sedated pups. 

As Lee (Wolfstraum) said, a puppy from good lines with solid nerve will take the flight all in stride. Many of us have has puppies shipped, and they come out of the crate tail wagging ready to play.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

it's more that you're the right person for a
dog regardless of breed. you can train and
socialize your dog to be the type of dog you
want.


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Just wanted to wish you luck in your search and when you find that precious pup, please share it with us.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

found this little fellow on the pedigree data base Puppies for sale: German Shepherd Puppies (id: 168793)
do you think this would be of interest to you? Would be handy as he is in UK also.
Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

carmspack said:


> found this little fellow on the pedigree data base Puppies for sale: German Shepherd Puppies (id: 168793)
> do you think this would be of interest to you? Would be handy as he is in UK also.
> Carmen
> CARMSPACK.com


No  the pup on the pic is really cute :wub: but right now I am not able to buy one nor will I be in the next couple of months due to legal reasons (contract with uni halls of residence that does not allow any pets). Also with some more hassle (going to Slovakia in person... but I could use a holiday anyway) I could get a quality pup much cheaper so this would not really meet my price/qty requirements. Nevertheless the pup is a real cutie though, thank you for trying to help.


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> it's more that you're the right person for a
> dog regardless of breed. you can train and
> socialize your dog to be the type of dog you
> want.


Yes, I know  The thing is the quality of myself as an owner/trainer are fairly constant (w/ space for improvement) and largely unknown yet*  so choosing a good pup would help a lot. If you want to shape something it's easier to shape wood than iron if this makes sense 



*I had a dog like 10 years ago, until when I was 15, GSD x Slovak cuvac, my Brita had the most beautiful head I've ever seen :wub: trained her some basic stuff like "sit down" and walking off the leash but it could have been much more. The whole thing lacked structure, frequency and methodology as I was quite a child at that time but still I achieved some nice results. No happy end though, when we moved to a flat we decided the best for her will be to stay with new owners who bought our house and after some time _allegedly_ she went crazy (missed us maybe?) and they just killed her instead of getting in touch with us, it's such a shame such a nice dog, a being with real personality must have died like this :_(


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> Many of us have has puppies shipped, and they come out of the crate tail wagging ready to play.


real nice to hear that


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

I haven't yet started to look for a breeder systematically but found 2 possible sources already

Psi* a* feny (*)

These are the sires (left) and dams (right) of a czech kennel, the owner breeds since '70s and is a judge on events, etc, I guess it's a responsible breader with extensive knowledge.

V 6 Galette Allanche

This girl lives just a couple of miles from my hometown, I'm not experienced enough to judge her so would need some feedback. I like the fact her back's slope is not as huge and curvy as other show dogs. She also looks quite massive for a female which is what I prefer (a relatively massive female structured similar to males) so her pupps could be nice too. The breeder most likely has much less experience than the other one though and the "quality of the dog" (not sure if I should be that much interested in this one beyond a certain point??) lower too.



Can you comment on these 2 sources, which one would you go for and why or anything you wanna say? I don't want answers like if I asked about specific puppies I know it depends a lot on the pairing etc. but so far this is the information I have.. Anyway, both these breeders breed GSL do I see it right?


(*)when you click on a dog there is a link "Rodokmen" that shows the dogs pedigree if interested


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

Tom888 said:


> and the "quality of the dog" (not sure if I should be that much interested in this one beyond a certain point??) lower too.


I have thoughs like if the dog's parents are both VAs does it really mean it's superior, mainly regarding character and nerves to that of "V" parents... well on a puppy to puppy basis I really doubt that because when it comes to character it's much more individual specific. Conclusion would be if I like how the parents look like and they have no genetic problems I just have to pick the one from the litter with the right temperament and drive, regardless V's and VA's (again, beyond a certain point, let that make a V cat. dog??)

Any feedback?


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

1sttimeforgsd said:


> Just wanted to wish you luck in your search and when you find that precious pup, please share it with us.


Thank you. 
I think once I manage to get a puppy I will be so proud of her I will share it excesively with everyone around on FB and every possible place  Obviously as this forum seems to be of great help I will feed back and share my success with you.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

If you think those prices are high you will have quite the sticker shock when you start seeing what the average wgsl goes for


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

GSDElsa said:


> If you think those prices are high you will have quite the sticker shock when you start seeing what the average wgsl goes for


Itt all depends on the point of view. If you are looking at this "from Slovakia" it's different.

Psi* a* feny

The guy with these dogs and decades of experience advertised his puppies for Eur 250 on a Slovak website. And believe me, from a pure Slovakian buyer's point of view that's a lot of money... for any dog. 

Anyway, what do you think about these dogs/this breeder??


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

GSDElsa said:


> If you think those prices are high you will have quite the sticker shock when you start seeing what the average wgsl goes for


Itt all depends on the point of view. If you are looking at this "from Slovakia" it's different.

Psi  a  feny

The guy with these dogs and decades of experience advertised his puppies for Eur 250, this is how I found him. And believe me, from a pure Slovakian point of view (not mine) that's a lot of money... for any dog. 

Anyway, what do you thik about these dogs??


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I had a look at the two web sites you provided . I do not know why you would have to go to Czech- Poland- Hungary -Slovakia , anywhere "mittel europa" for a dog that is west German show lines which these are with the exception of Fuji on the first link . These lines are pretty well ubiquitous ,  USA, Canada, west Germany , even in the United Kingdom.
Why not locate a breeder in the UK?
You have a strong preference for what you call "nice classic colour" (which actually is not - the first dogs were sable) , so your best chance of getting this is from the show lines.

If you insist on shopping abroad why not look in to Sweden - you may get the colour you want and the dogs will have gone through the mentality test , so emphasis on the temperament.

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

is there something wrong with my math? 250 Euros converts to around $320 Canadian funds which is more or less equal to the US dollar these days. You think that is a lot of money ... for any dog? We had a forum member introduce his new pup , 8 weeks I believe , and his price was $4,000.


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

carmspack said:


> is there something wrong with my math? 250 Euros converts to around $320 Canadian funds which is more or less equal to the US dollar these days. You think that is a lot of money ... for any dog? We had a forum member introduce his new pup , 8 weeks I believe , and his price was $4,000.


I never said that. What I am trying to say is an average person in the capitol earns about Eur 500/mth and an avg. person outside of capitol/western slovakia about 300/mth which is about the national minimum wage. (average person meaning person from lower social class). They are not going to buy dogs for thousands of euros. I am also coming from that background, I have an idea about what such an income is enough for and understand the attitude. And even though I would give more money for a good dog than an average Slovak, because of this background I'm definitely not talking about thousands of euros either.
Now... breeders producing puppies for the Slovakian market can't sell their dog for such amounts, no one would/could buy them. Neither would I.

This also answers your question 



carmspack said:


> Why not locate a breeder in the UK?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so then are you saying there are breeders exploiting the foreign markets -- huge mark up -- just go to the pedigree data base and it seems as if the majority of advertisers in the classifieds are Czech/ Slovak dogs . Who would be left to breed for the Slovakian market ?

why not buy from a British breeder with essentially the same genetics?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

carmspack said:


> why not buy from a British breeder with essentially the same genetics?


Because he wants to pay Slovakian prices


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

carmspack said:


> so then are you saying there are breeders exploiting the foreign markets -- huge mark up -- just go to the pedigree data base and it seems as if the majority of advertisers in the classifieds are Czech/ Slovak dogs . Who would be left to breed for the Slovakian market ?
> 
> why not buy from a British breeder with essentially the same genetics?


Not exactly again but this is going quite off topic 

Basically sellers are always exploiting buyers and buyers are always exploiting sellers, this creates an equilibrium called the current price. And there are segments of these markets that can become separated from each other. There are people who for some reason don't produce for export. They might not want the hassle, lack skills (language, organisational or IT), be concerned about the puppies transported as cargo (not too many of the cocerned ones though imo  ) or have other reasons. This produce a local market with local prices and sometimes local quality (better or worse than avg.) as the interaction between this and other segments of the market is limited.

Someone who sells a pup for $10000 (not misleading the buyer!!) is exploiting the market and not the buyer, the equlibrium is at that price on that market segment. Someone buying the same dog on a different market segment for £250 is not exploiting the breeder but the market, there is simply equilibrium at that price on that market segment.

The concept of arbitrage is based on these facts too (although most market are too effective to make money this way... hmm... thinking about it now, the GSD market could be a good place for arbitrage  )

To be honest I do not like how the system, capitalism and markets work... but one thing is for sure: you have to play according to its rules whether you want or not. It's not sellers/buyers failure but a system fault...


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

If you can find someone selling dogs for that (as you can in the US) and you are comfortable with it then go for it. 

Poeple selling dogs for $4000 are most definitely exploiting buyers in my opinion. But $1500 or there abouts most definitely not (then again, a lot send there dogs other countries for $20K worth of training and they need to make money back somehow). It is NOT cheap to get all the titles, breed surveys, pay for the costs associated with welping and breeding, etc.....in any country.


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

GSDElsa said:


> If you can find someone selling dogs for that (as you can in the US) and you are comfortable with it then go for it.
> 
> People selling dogs for $4000 are most definitely exploiting buyers in my opinion. But $1500 or there abouts most definitely not (then again, a lot send there dogs other countries for $20K worth of training and they need to make money back somehow). It is NOT cheap to get all the titles, breed surveys, pay for the costs associated with welping and breeding, etc.....in any country.


Well, maybe saying "they try to" would be right. It is always about the option to buy the one for $1500. If there is such an option then buyers will go that way. If someone buys a dog for 4k without checking if he can buy the same quality for 1k... pardon me but he deserves it. He would have needed to put in 1/10 of the effort I'm putting in, that's arrogance towards the market that never pays off.

Also your point of view logically implies that I am exploiting the breeders too then, right? Well I just found a breeder who sells dogs worth definitelly more than Eur 1000 for Eur 2-300. Why? He breeds for pleasure and for the breed's benefit, for some sort of legacy. He's a pensionist now and very responsible breeder with good bloodline who would do what he does even for free but he cannot keep all the pups. It's a pleasure for me considering buying from him helping him doing what he's doing and for him it's a pleasure too. I don't see how that is exploiting him, it's his price and I know he has the skills to go higher in price, it's just not the goal anymore. 

This also is guarantee of quality, isn't it a paradox: the cheaper the better?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Tom888 said:


> To be honest I do not like how the system, capitalism and markets work... but one thing is for sure: you have to play according to its rules whether you want or not. It's not sellers/buyers failure but a system fault...



Well... you could always move to Cuba


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

This "basically sellers are always exploiting buyers and buyers are always exploiting sellers, this creates an equilibrium called the current price" is totally cynical and most definitely not how I view the people I deal with - in any transaction. Ever.

so this part of the discussion on the economics paints a picture of brokers going around to this disadvantaged group of breeders , paying them a pittance, doing some "stuff" or not, with what they have scooped and then re-selling for big profit to a hungry US (foreign) market which is in the believe that Czech or Slovak dogs have some immunity to the ills of the breed - which they do not .


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Well... you could always move to Cuba


"Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time"

Churchill

Have to agree and the same is most likely true about capitalism. I believe I understand it at least better than average and I see it faulty by design, just take a look at its 19th century's pure form... but so far it indeed might the best option. My opinion is that we should find a new system, something that has not failed yet (not like communism or similar BS that should remain in the trashbin of history). Well this will not happen without a painful collapse, another system failing, this time capitalism so I don't really know what to wish for, whats the least worst..


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

carmspack said:


> This "basically sellers are always exploiting buyers and buyers are always exploiting sellers, this creates an equilibrium called the current price" is totally cynical and most definitely not how I view the people I deal with - in any transaction. Ever.
> 
> so this part of the discussion on the economics paints a picture of brokers going around to this disadvantaged group of breeders , paying them a pittance, doing some "stuff" or not, with what they have scooped and then re-selling for big profit to a hungry US (foreign) market which is in the believe that Czech or Slovak dogs have some immunity to the ills of the breed - which they do not .


It is cynical... but this is how our world works, I wish it would be a different way...

The part about the brokers: from what I've seen here so far I guess most of the exported dogs are sold without brokers being involved but indeed I can see the opportunity for middlemen to arbitrageing the s$%^t out of both the sellers and the buyers. Funny thing is, from a systems point of view they are the ones who make the market effective, which is again unbelieveably cynical. 

I did not invent this system nor do I like it.


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

Tom888 said:


> from a systems point of view they are the ones who make the market effective, which is again unbelieveably cynical.


Well actually, going further, after the number of "brokers" join this market it would lower the buy prices for US customers and offer higher sell prices for breeders closing the gap between the price difference due to competition between brokers, this is what it means "they would make the market more effective. It's still hopelessly cynical but at the end everybody wins 

...at least in this case and at the end, when what the brokers are doing is not arbitrage anymore due to broker competition and the closing price gap

It seems to work but I still don't like it too much


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

You don't have to have an economics lesson to buy a good dog. Just decide what you want and start researching breeders that breed that kind of dog. Eventually you will decide on the breeder you want your dog to come from and the price will either be secondary or not an issue at all.


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

robk said:


> You don't have to have an economics lesson to buy a good dog. Just decide what you want and start researching breeders that breed that kind of dog. Eventually you will decide on the breeder you want your dog to come from and the price will either be secondary or not an issue at all.


Well I suppose the last couple of posts were absolutely not about buying a dog but totally off topic


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

You cannot commoditize a German Shepherd dog. They are too complex of a breed.


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

robk said:


> You cannot commoditize a German Shepherd dog. They are too complex of a breed.


You should not... but most certainly can: history proved us that you can commoditize even human beings, and it is sad.


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## Tom888 (Nov 18, 2012)

Hey guys, I'd actually like to go back ontopic and ask something: How do you think I would cope with a Kirschental based on what I told you about myself?? I know what you think about my attitude toward prices but please answer seriously lol


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