# Dog Food Killing Pets (moved from Stories)



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

This is horrible, Purina needs to be shut down completely. 

Purina’s Beneful Dog Food Kills Pets, According to Class Action Lawsuit | The Dogington Post


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

I have seen a Royal Canine batch with worms in it... Might have noticed late...

But I always pour the food into a different container before feeding. 

Not only can I close and seal the container.
But it helps me see the contents of the bag.

I.e. is there wetness... Are the lumps stuck together...
Are there worms...

I also smell etc.

Obviously you can only do so much.

Just thought that doing those things can help and wanted to mention it.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I used to pour the food into a container but not anymore, after from doing some research on it. Now I just keep the food in it's original bag (because it has the expiration date, batch # etc. in case of a recall) then I just place the bag into a food grade container.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Bella67 said:


> I used to pour the food into a container but not anymore, after from doing some research on it. Now I just keep the food in it's original bag (because it has the expiration date, batch # etc. in case of a recall) then I just place the bag into a food grade container.


Well I could think of methods to keep the batch number of the used bag... Also what do you mean research against transfering into container? What is bad? Could you share some information?

In any case... We dont have re-calls in my country...

How do I keep up to date on that?

If I import a canadian product... Orijen specifically...
Can I follow USA/Canadian/Some other European coutries Recalls?

Would the import products to other countries maybe share batch numbers with american imports?

I wish we had authorities like they have in the USA..

Is there a website I can follow this on?


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Well..
My food hasn't had any recalls at all or any reports about finding worms in the bag so I don't have to really worry about that for now at least. I've done research on different websites, talking to people I know, research actually on this forum, and reading about a good way to storage the food on Fromm's website (the brand I feed). Unfortunately, I can't answer _all_ of your questions because I don't have to worry about food from a different country etc. so there is no need for me to do research on it. 
Everyone has their own preference on storing their dog's food, and this is mine.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

This is from Fromm's FB page. 

"_Tips for storing your pet’s food: Did you know our bags are designed to keep our food fresh and to keep contaminants out of the food? We always recommend storing dry food in its original bag inside an outer sealed container in a cool, dry environment. We do not recommend pouring our food out of its original bag. 

Plastic containers in particular may pose a threat of contamination. Over time the fats in dry pet food will get into the pores of many types of plastic containers which then introduces foreign compounds into the food stored in that container. 

Canned foods should be sealed and stored refrigerated after opening and not be stored for longer than five days after opening._"

Hope some of this answers your questions.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Bella67 said:


> This is from Fromm's FB page.
> 
> "_Tips for storing your pet’s food: Did you know our bags are designed to keep our food fresh and to keep contaminants out of the food? We always recommend storing dry food in its original bag inside an outer sealed container in a cool, dry environment. We do not recommend pouring our food out of its original bag.
> 
> ...


Yep it does answer my questions.

Leaves me in a predicament... Because I think it is important to have a look at the food my dog will be eating for a long period of time...

Especially after that worm experience...

Maybe there is a better container I can buy.

Maybe some other users can help out on that.

About the food recalls tho... I understand you cant answer my out of country import question..

How do you keep track of recalls in your country?
Is there a website?

You said you check batch number, and then check it somewhere?


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I understand where your coming from with wanting to check the food after the worm issue I would be the same. But I trust the brand I'm feeding.  

Dog Food Recalls | Dog Food Advisor is where I go for all recent recalls, everything is UTD on their site and it is very helpful.. lots of information on all the foods. 

I just bought this food container from Amazon it has pretty good reviews and it is a reasonable price also. Amazon.com : IRIS Premium Airtight Pet Food Storage, 67-Quart, Black : Pet Food Storage Products : Pet Supplies I got the biggest one, it holds a 33 lb bag. 

I don't really understand your last question? I just like to keep the bags in case of a recall and because of the other reasons we talked about.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Thank you for the reply bella

Sorry more questions. For anyone that can answer 

So foodadvisor keeps track of that... Nice...

Is Orijen which is a Canadian company also regulated in USA?
I imagine FoodAdvisor is a US sight?

I know the product is available in USA... So logically they would do recalls on it if something went wrong?

I dont see any Orijen Recalls on the website... But I dont know if it is out of their 'jurisdiction' or if its because the food has never failed...


PS the container you recommended... Is that to empty the food in... Or to keep the food in packet, and just put food in container?
Im pretty positive the correctly designed product will be superior to the natural dog food seal.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Lykoz said:


> PS the container you recommended... Is that to empty the food in... Or to keep the food in packet, and just put food in container?
> Im pretty positive the correctly designed product will be superior to the natural dog food seal.


I don't pour the bag into it, I just place the bag in the container so the food stays fresh.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I don't know much about Orjien so sadly I can't answer those questions  But I'm sure other people on here would be able to.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

To any people making pet products out there!!

We need an airtight container... We need disposable "rubbish style bags".. that can replace the natural packaging, and keep the unit clean, and free from oil absorbtion etc...

My message to anyone listening...

Thanks for your answers and time Bella.
Was very helpfull


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Lykoz said:


> To any people making pet products out there!!
> 
> We need an airtight container... We need disposable "rubbish style bags".. that can replace the natural packaging, and keep the unit clean, and free from oil absorbtion etc...
> 
> ...


This is what I use with my Fromm. I used to put the bag in there, but it was tough getting a 33lb bag into the container. Now I pour it out. 

Gamma Vittles Vault Pet Food Container at PETCO


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I've fed my dogs nature's domain for a while. Never had any problems with it. I stay away from iams, science diet, eukanuba, purina, and usually pedigree except now captain is eating pedigree because it is what he ate before with his old owners. I am trying to transition him off of it and get him on just natures domain. These other brands have a history of recalls, not to mention being tested on animals, and by testing I don't mean letting a dog eat it and testing if they like it. I mean full on vivisection. I don't know if they still test anymore like they did in the past. Regardless, it left a bad enough impression on me that I just stay away from all of that. Can't wait till captain gets weaned off his pedigree.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Ethical Cat and Dog Food

Brands of dog food to avoid


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Ethical Cat and Dog Food
> 
> Brands of dog food to avoid


I haven't heard of any of the brands they recommend though.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

It seems like they are based out of the u. K., I just posted it to sshow what to avoid. But as far as what to buy for people in the USA we can do some research. I likee nature's domain. Fromm or orijen or something else ?


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I would stay away from any food that has a 1-2 maybe 3 star rating. :nono:

One Star Dry Dog Foods | Dog Food Advisor

Two Star Dry Dog Foods | Dog Food Advisor

Three Star Dry Dog Foods | Dog Food Advisor


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I will admit, I fed Shasta Beneful for years but changed over about a year ago to TOTW(I hope that's not made by Purina?). She never had any issues from it that I know of but I'm very glad that I have switched her. Sounds like yet another case of a huge company doing whatever they want and getting away with it.


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## truckola (Nov 3, 2013)

I have had mice eat through the side of the bag, so I use the gamma vault. Previously I used a trash can with a lid, but it must fit tight or they can get in.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

astrovan2487 said:


> I will admit, I fed Shasta Beneful for years but changed over about a year ago to TOTW(I hope that's not made by Purina?). She never had any issues from it that I know of but I'm very glad that I have switched her. Sounds like yet another case of a huge company doing whatever they want and getting away with it.


TOTW is from Diamond which has had recalls in the past I believe. I've fed TOTW to Chloe for a while only a bag's worth which was the Sierra Mountain then I just switched her to Fromm. But TOTW is waaaay better than Beneful!


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

eddie1976E said:


> This is what I use with my Fromm. I used to put the bag in there, but it was tough getting a 33lb bag into the container. Now I pour it out.
> 
> Gamma Vittles Vault Pet Food Container at PETCO


This is the same type of container I have, and I have been pouring the food into it from the back. I also feed Fromm's, though, and after reading the recommendations from the Fromm's site, now I am wondering about the plastic. It's something I had begun to wonder about before this thread, because the container can get a sort of rancid odor to it if you don't wash it in between finishing one bag and pouring a new one into it. Anyone have any other thoughts on the hard plastic containers?

Susan


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Lykoz said:


> To any people making pet products out there!!
> 
> We need an airtight container... We need disposable *"rubbish style bags"*.. that can replace the natural packaging, and keep the unit clean, and free from oil absorbtion etc...
> 
> ...


Lykoz,

The rubbish style bags you mentioned we would call trash bags here in the US... I'm not sure I would want to store dog food in them. I believe most of them now are formulated to even break down after a certain amount of time, so that they break down in landfills. Also, I know they are not produced at human food grade level. 
The Fromm website that was referenced above seems to make sense. I feed Fromm's, and the bag they use does seem to be superior to most others, but I think I would want to store it inside another permanent, airtight container. It is cheaper to buy in large quantities, but with only two dogs, I have worried about the food staying fresh. I considered freezing half the bag until I need it. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

Susan


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I don't see how any container that has a screw on lid can be made air tight myself? That doesn't work for storing flour in my experience? So I don't see how it would work for dog food.

And plastic just absorbs everything, I guess if it's food grade that would not be the case but I still don't buy a screw on lid making a container air tight?? Just my two cents.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Lykoz,
> 
> The rubbish style bags you mentioned we would call trash bags here in the US... I'm not sure I would want to store dog food in them. I believe most of them now are formulated to even break down after a certain amount of time, so that they break down in landfills. Also, I know they are not produced at human food grade level.
> The Fromm website that was referenced above seems to make sense. I feed Fromm's, and the bag they use does seem to be superior to most others, but I think I would want to store it inside another permanent, airtight container. It is cheaper to buy in large quantities, but with only two dogs, I have worried about the food staying fresh. I considered freezing half the bag until I need it. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
> ...


Bella said that the dog food natural packaging was well designed to keep dog food fresh in some way.. And the oils did not get into plastic... 
TBH im not sure exactly what she meant.. But it made sense...

No I was not referring to using a std. rubbish bag...

Something that is inside the plastic container... Is disposable... And quick fit.. as well as keeping the food 'fresh' Would be nice i think. The general idea I was trying to push across is something much more efficient than a Rubbish bag...

My initial point was I liked to always remove the bag from initial packaging, So I can see all the food.. For clumps... moisture... (Even worms... Found some worms once in a Royal Canine bag...)

So I make a habit of emptying the bag into a plastic container before feeding the dogs.

Bella informed me about a reaction to the plastic and not staying fresh... Also there is the cleaning concern... You dont want oils and left over extracts from your previous batch... I guess I could just clean the plastic containers each time... But some disposable bag would be nice.

BAsically I think its important to observe the food and not leave it in its natural packaging... You have no idea whats happening down under at bottom of package. If it was compromised in some way... Its likely to be compromised from the bottom up.. So you dont want your dogs eating contaminated food half way through... When you could have just noticed, by pouring it out when you first got it, and having a proper look.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Friend of mine's dog had a seizure that Thursday on Beneful. No prior history. I am in the process to changing to BARF and she texted me today to find the name of the company I am using. She's done with kibble after watching her dog seizure.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> I don't see how any container that has a screw on lid can be made air tight myself? That doesn't work for storing flour in my experience? So I don't see how it would work for dog food.
> 
> And plastic just absorbs everything, I guess if it's food grade that would not be the case but I still don't buy a screw on lid making a container air tight?? Just my two cents.


The containers I have do have large screw-on lids, but they also have a rubber 'O-ring' that makes the seal. My concern with them is the fact that they are made of plastic, albeit hard plastic.

Susan


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Lykoz said:


> Bella said that the dog food natural packaging was well designed to keep dog food fresh in some way.. And the oils did not get into plastic...
> TBH im not sure exactly what she meant.. But it made sense...
> 
> No I was not referring to using a std. rubbish bag...
> ...


I understand your concerns with that, certainly. You're in a warmer climate, I believe--I would think that would be more likely to happen at warmer temperatures and humidity than what we have most of the year where I am.

Susan


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

And children... the moral of he story is! No matter what hype you read about dog food... in reality, it's all about which ad company produces the better spin... the crap all comes from the same couple of factories. Some ad companies are just better at getting the public to pay double for imaginary high quality ingredients......


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> The containers I have do have large screw-on lids, but they also have a rubber 'O-ring' that makes the seal. My concern with them is the fact that they are made of plastic, albeit hard plastic.
> 
> Susan


I still don't see how a screw on lid can drive air out but I have not seen a screw on container with an O ring? So...carry on.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> I understand your concerns with that, certainly. You're in a warmer climate, I believe--I would think that would be more likely to happen at warmer temperatures and humidity than what we have most of the year where I am.
> 
> Susan


The worms are not coming from a failure to seal the product correctly when opened. They are in the food....

I have NEVER heard this happening before. What the heck are they doing (or not doing to the dog food)? this may very well be a result of all the organic freaks pushing for no additives, which answers the question, why they were added in the first place?

Just about the only food I would trust at this point would be frozen and then cooked "nuked" prior to serving. and there's no alternative here for large breed dogs.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I did see worms in cat treats and those bags are air tight! No idea how old that particular bags was? I only noticed because the handful of treats I was going to give the cats seemed lighter??

So I aways look at the treats before I give them to the cats now.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

I store my dog food in a garbage can. Literately. 

Its never had trash in it. I used to just pour the food into it, but recently with dogs on different diets I just put the bags into the can. 










I live in the high desert. We get really hot in the summer and can get really cold in the winter.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> I still don't see how a screw on lid can drive air out but I have not seen a screw on container with an O ring? So...carry on.


It doesn't drive air out, I'm not talking about creating a vacuum. But it seals it so that no insects can get in--ants, flies, etc.

Susan


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Other sites:

Recalls & Withdrawals 

https://www.avma.org/news/issues/recalls-alerts/pages/pet-food-safety-recalls-alerts.aspx 

I believe, Champion (Orijen/Acana) and other Canadian made pet foods are not under USA FDA, so therefore not reported.

"The CFIA (Canadian Food Inspection Agency) does not regulate pet food that is manufactured in Canada, and sold domestically. Individual Canadian pet food manufacturers are responsible for ensuring the safety and quality of their products." http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/feeds/pet-food/eng/1299870750016/1320602183408 

"The CFIA provides verification and certification services for pet foods that are made in Canada and intended for export. Pet foods exported from Canada may need to have an official zoosanitary health certificate, which is issued by the CFIA. The completed certificate confirms that the sanitary requirements of the importing country have been met.
The CFIA negotiates import conditions with the importing country's veterinary officials. It also does inspections of Canadian export manufacturing establishments. It does this to verify that the products, manufacturing facilities, and practices meet the importing country's market access requirements." http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals...orts/pet-food/eng/1321152787689/1321153110863 


Moms


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Other sites:
> 
> Recalls & Withdrawals
> 
> ...


Thanks for that.

Cant trust my individual countries import conditions and checks, doubt they exist... I wonder if Import to the EU however is covered, as an EU member state.

I heard Orijien however passed Canadian tests as: "fit for human consumption".. Is that true?

Was that a once off thing? or do they get regulated by some sort of 'human body'... Or is all this just marketing and rubbish?


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I am going to start being more vigilant now about how I store my dog food.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> I am going to start being more vigilant now about how I store my dog food.


Yep, its a huge problem...

For us we have one bad meal... we get sick... We can recover...

With pet food it kills, because even if its a bit off.. They eat the same bag for Weeks...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> It doesn't drive air out, I'm not talking about creating a vacuum. But it seals it so that no insects can get in--ants, flies, etc.
> 
> Susan


Understood!


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Lykoz said:


> Yep, its a huge problem...
> 
> For us we have one bad meal... we get sick... We can recover...
> 
> With pet food it kills, because even if its a bit off.. They eat the same bag for Weeks...


Right. We eat a variety, they generally get the same stuff over and over. I really think that our parents weren't that far off when they used to feed our dogs the same food we ate, sometimes supplemented with some canned food (albeit horse meat). And I never, ever heard about bloat until the 1980s, probably right around when the majority of pet owners started going for convenience, feeding kibble. JMO.

Susan


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Lykoz said:


> Yep, its a huge problem...
> 
> For us we have one bad meal... we get sick... We can recover...
> 
> With pet food it kills, because even if its a bit off.. They eat the same bag for Weeks...


I wish a bag of food lasted weeks


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I wish a bag of food lasted weeks


I'm just curious, but how long does a bag of food usually last you?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Bella67 said:


> I'm just curious, but how long does a bag of food usually last you?


Right now we have three different foods going, eventually I would like that to be one. The two older GSDs get Farmina Herring, that lasts 3 weeks. Apollo gets Fromm Large Breed a Puppy, that lasts over a month. The other 5 get Farmina Chicken and that lasts almost 2 weeks.


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## charger (Jan 29, 2008)

shepherdmom said:


> I store my dog food in a garbage can. Literately.
> 
> Its never had trash in it. I used to just pour the food into it, but recently with dogs on different diets I just put the bags into the can.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't use a garbage can, especially somewhere it gets really hot. The plastic in garbage cans are not food grade plastics and contain BPA and other toxic chemicals that will leach out in to the food.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Oh god... There is more science and reasoning to this than I would have ever thought 

Lets find the best product and mass order it haha...

Unfortunately I have to pay import for anything worthwhile...

We have pet shops all over the place down here, all selling absolute cheep crap for ridiculous prices.


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## Bebe56 (Dec 8, 2014)

Nestle-Purina Faces Class Action Lawsuit over Beneful


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Bebe56 said:


> Nestle-Purina Faces Class Action Lawsuit over Beneful


Not justifying 

but

I think the reason Nestle always gets the stick has a lot to do with getting a big 'new story'...

I mean no body cares when no-name brand sells crap and kill dogs... Or even a dog only brand.

However when it's nestle the guns come down blazing hard. And I think part of it is because they also sell human products.

A lot of the pet only companies get away with more than they should.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Yeah I just seen that on the news also.


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## Ruger Monster (Jan 29, 2015)

Bebe56 said:


> Nestle-Purina Faces Class Action Lawsuit over Beneful


The Beneful story has been blowing up all over my newsfeed this morning.

Used to feed my BT Beneful when we first got her, guess it was a good thing we took her off it and put her solely on BB.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

My friends dog has been suffering from kidney and liver failure at the age of 7. Guess what food? Beneful. She is so upset right now.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

llombardo said:


> I wish a bag of food lasted weeks


That's what I was thinking. My dry food doesn't last long enough to worry about being air tight or locking in freshness. I put the entire bag into a large trash can, just in case of rodents. 

When I feed my dogs I add water and stir it up. If there is unintentional protein crawling around the kibble, I'd see it then.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Lilie said:


> That's what I was thinking. My dry food doesn't last long enough to worry about being air tight or locking in freshness. I put the entire bag into a large trash can, just in case of rodents.
> 
> When I feed my dogs I add water and stir it up. If there is unintentional protein crawling around the kibble, I'd see it then.


It should last weeks for a single dog... Unless you are buying small packets, which does not make sense financially.

I own two dogs and often open two bags together... I may mix for example 
Orijen Red which is extremely expensive with Orijen Adult.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Lykoz said:


> It should last weeks for a single dog... Unless you are buying small packets, which does not make sense financially.
> 
> I own two dogs and often open two bags together... I may mix for example
> Orijen Red which is extremely expensive with Orijen Adult.


Also people need to realise that the top tier dog food brands/packages last LONGER... (Packet contents being equal)
So some of the better quality food brands out there may not actually have a dog food per day cost as high as you might think..

Why?

Because they are higher Quality... The dog needs to EAT LESS food because they are getting more NUTRIENTS...
One of the reasons that dogs are not satisfied and often eat their faeces is because they feel they are lacking in some nourishment.
So yes the time taken to eat each specific brand depends on many things...

This includes: Exercise... Dog food quality... Breed/Size of dog...
It is not just a case of many dogs=eat food faster.

In lower grade products you often see artificial aditions of supplements... To account for their lack of high value product... Sometimes they just dont bother at all...

For example you wont see Glucosmamine additives in Orijen, because they have the natural nutrient content to not need them..


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

*Another pet food murder spree?*

Lawsuit: Purina Beneful dog food poisoning, killing thousands of pets | syracuse.com

Greedy bastards killing our babies ... again


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

It would be really nice if this lawsuit finally took Beneful off the shelves. Even if it WASN'T poisoning dogs, it'd still at best be one of the worst foods a dog can eat. I think one of the pet stores in my area is doing a Purina drive - anyone who trades in a bag of any Purina dog food (no matter how little is left) gets a free four to five bag of Fromm, Zignature, or some other brand of high quality dog food as well as probiotics to switch their dog to the new food. Seems like a good way to get people seeing the benefits of feeding healthy food.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Here is a story...

A friend at work called me a while ago and told me her dog wasn't well. I urge urged her to take him in. They did blood work and there were issues with kidneys and liver. The dog just turned 7 and was always pretty healthy. The vet couldn't figure it out. I told her to ask him about poison. Everything sounded like poison, the vet dismissed it. I asked about anti freeze, cleaning supplies,etc. The other day she calls me and tells me this is the food she has been feeding. I once again advise her to call that darn vet. The medications are costly and so is the bloodwork, which he is having again today because now the vet is thinking poison. She tells me yesterday that she should have listened to me when I told her it was poison a long time ago...


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## BeachLvr (Jul 17, 2013)

Keep in mind you can file suit for almost anything and lawyers know big firms are pretty likely to settle rather then spend time and money fighting what could be a frivolous suit.

Because its on the interweb or a chain letter doesn't make it true. I've seen this over and over with all kinds of products, some true most not.
Propylene glycol is in many food products and lost of dairy products and drugs. Just because it is an ingredient in antifreeze doesn't make it antifreeze. The main ingredient in antifreeze by quantity is H2O but that doest mean you should stop drinking water.


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

BeachLvr said:


> Keep in mind you can file suit for almost anything and lawyers know big firms are pretty likely to settle rather then spend time and money fighting what could be a frivolous suit.
> 
> Because its on the interweb or a chain letter doesn't make it true. I've seen this over and over with all kinds of products, some true most not.
> Propylene glycol is in many food products and lost of dairy products and drugs. Just because it is an ingredient in antifreeze doesn't make it antifreeze. The main ingredient in antifreeze by quantity is H2O but that doest mean you should stop drinking water.


Hey Man,
Hows it going? So which dog food company do you work for?

And how do you sleep at night knowing you are killing man's best friend? :hug:


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

1) I work with Medical devices. Do companies cut corners? Are some doctors stupid? Does the FDA make catastrophic mistakes? 

Yes, Yes, Yes.

2) Law suits for dogs / animals don't usually make headlines. It takes many doggies to die, before people take heed. As a species we barely care for human deaths, let alone dog deaths. 

3) It takes substantial evidence for an attorney to invest his time and money in a high risk venture such as a contingency law suit. Supreme court rulings, quality of evidence, history of criminal behavior (in this case negligence) account for the decision to take the case forward. Trust me, I know, i have been on both sides of the fence with cases like this.

4) Dog food companies are always in the news for killing dogs with unsafe chemicals, mixing carcasses from euthanized animals rom veterinarian's dumpsters in dog/cat food, etc etc. It is just too well established to be completely ruled out. Lets draw a parallel, would you trust your 7 year old daughter with a convicted sex offender? The sex offender has done his time, and claims to have repented. But would you?

One thing I learnt early on: NEVER buy dog food brands that are advertised on TV. Dogfoodadvisor.com rocks! And don't ignore any news, why take a chance with my best little buddy's life?


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> 1) I work with Medical devices. Do companies cut corners? Are some doctors stupid? Does the FDA make catastrophic mistakes?
> 
> Yes, Yes, Yes.
> 
> ...


All correct... But you answered your own question.

That dog brand is a lower quality food brand, and priced at such... The things that happens with pet dog food is atrocious. 

However I ALWAYS see purina taking the stick above others.
Why? 

Well as I said you answered your own question... Nestle also makes human consumption products...
So it makes for BIG headlines.

I would not be surprised if big competitors in the human market, are setting it up. (Not falsely, but incentivising it)
People care more for what they do, than others. I mean I might think twice before buying that Nestle Chocolate?

Either way I would not buy purina... But I would not trust their competitors at that price range either.
Paying less.. Means the companies have to cut some corners.

Pet food companies get caught often... They do re-calls often.. But when it happens to Purina.. There on every web-site and facebook feed.


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## BeachLvr (Jul 17, 2013)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> Hey Man,
> Hows it going? So which dog food company do you work for?
> 
> And how do you sleep at night knowing you are killing man's best friend? :hug:


That's funny. I do have some experience in the human food and drug industry though. I am just sensible enough to understand and not buy into the hysteria. 
Is Purina a great food probably not. Never bought it. There probably are dogs that have thrived on it and there are dogs that have not done well on the premium brands too. Balancing quality, affordability and availability are what it's about in the end.

PS you can find boat loads of lawyers that will take class action lawsuits that don't necessarily have a lot of merit. Event merit-less suits at times have big payouts.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

A friend of mine feeds her dog the puppy formula from Beneful I've always tried to tell her that the food isn't good for the dog, not to mention all they feed that dog is cooked bacon and chicken. (poor dog is so overweight at a young age) She NEVER listened to me. :| Hopefully something doesn't happen to the dog but I tried to tell her. 
I believe that the people who feed brands such as Beneful, or the food you get at like Walmart for example.. don't do any research on the good & bad foods OR they just don't care what they feed their dogs. I think if you can't AT LEAST feed a better brand then you shouldn't own a dog.. get a turtle or a hamster.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Battle Creek vet crusades to help keep dogs healthier


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

BeachLvr said:


> PS you can find boat loads of lawyers that will take class action lawsuits that don't necessarily have a lot of merit. Event merit-less suits at times have big payouts.


No. 

The above is fanciful thinking. It is completely untrue. No corporation will give its money to a garbage attorney with a weak case. Never!

No attorney worth his salt will even touch a weak case.

Unthinkables happen, but those are the exceptions, not the norm. Thats why they come in the news, because they are as rare as a Elephant giving birth to a unicorn. 

You have ABSOLUTELY no idea what a class action law suit is. *I request you to not mislead people about the judiciary.*

If you claim you worked with food and drugs, then please define the position you worked as.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

How do you know his statement is completely untrue? Answer: you don't. You do'n' know all the cases that have been filed and the merit of each. Speaking in absolutes negates the validity of an argument.

I won't speak about the case. I don't know what ingredient in the food they are purporting is toxic. I don't feed Purina. However, growing up we used to, but not because we didn't care about our pets. I'm certain we cared just as much as you, just without the drama. I don't think you can say people don't care about their pets when they feed it. They either feel like it's a decent food for a decent price, their parents always fed it, or for any number of reasons.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> No.
> 
> The above is fanciful thinking. It is completely untrue. No corporation will give its money to a garbage attorney with a weak case. Never!
> 
> ...


Not true...

Some medical insurance firms pay large amounts in legal fees that could be going to covering clients they should be covering, just so they can get out of it and avoid a payout..

Happens all the time.

Lawyers do whatever makes them money.
A good lawyer can change the reality of any situation to suit their big bucks client.

It really depends where the money is.
Lawyers will do anything for the right pay-check.

You dont see too much of the other way round because its incredibly hard and not worth your while to take on the big guys.

The thing is they set-up the insured for failure with false promises, and a lot of fine print.
You are right the big boys win more often... But not because they are right... or somebody else's case is weak... Just because they have more money, and they set you up to fail.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> No.
> 
> The above is fanciful thinking. It is completely untrue. No *corporation* will give its money to a garbage attorney with a weak case. Never!


Although I'm going to kick myself for asking you this.... what corporation do you think is suing the dog food manufacture in this case?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I merged the 2 threads on the same topic, instead of locking the second one. 

Let's remember some basic board rules here, not inciting, insulting, swearing, pseudo swearing, etc. Board Rules

Jean
Admin


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## gsforever (Apr 16, 2013)

I have seen worms only once, and was likely my fault. When had dogs years ago I never saw worms? man this is scary since getting a new pup soon... more research never ends. Would it make sense to buy small bags of kibble so could inspect? and is there much chance of worms in canned food?


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I wouldn't buy smaller bags of kibble imo. I would just be spending more money then I would buying the larger bag.


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

Lykoz said:


> Not true...
> 
> Some medical insurance firms pay large amounts in legal fees that could be going to covering clients they should be covering, just so they can get out of it and avoid a payout..
> 
> ...



Some of my very best friends are exceedingly successful lawyers. And 100% of them are superb human beings who will go the extra mile to help some one. Yes they live in Beverly Hills, and drive some of the fanciest cars around.

My partner in one of my ventures is also a Lawyer.

How can you possibly brush all people in a profession with the same brush? That too a very high level profession that requires years of dedicated education, building a reputation, etc?

I remember when in grad school, and I was poor, and could only afford the "local" channels for $8/month from time warner and the evening's TV entertainment high light used to be "Jerry Springer", weird local lawyer ads would come on TV. 

No, those are not lawyers, they are what witch doctors are compared to real doctors.

I cant imagine doing a day's work without consulting a lawyer, and as a very senior corporate leader, I need to protect my company. And FDA and other regulatory agencies, supreme court rulings, laws : federal, state, local etc are my friends which help me ensure that the medical device I am sending out to families will not cause any adverse effects. If I am spending so much money and effort in being careful, you think I cant see through any bull**** a con artist will throw at me?

I have to pay the salaries of my people, people who have new babies, people with mortgages, car payments, children's tuition fees. 

I have to ensure that investments made in my company from the retirement funds of honest citizens get a honest return, so as to pay for their living.

And you think I will let any tom, **** or harry come up with some garbage case and I will just surrender my money to them?


Anything contrary to the above is hearsay and baloney. 

Medical insurance companies are not food and drug and medical device companies. I have no expertise in insurance practices, and we are not discussing medical insurance companies here in this thread.

And note to admin: I am not insulting anyone. Having an opinion... an informed opinion, even if contrary to the general consensus, is not a violation of any rules.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> Some of my very best friends are exceedingly successful lawyers. And 100% of them are superb human beings who will go the extra mile to help some one. Yes they live in Beverly Hills, and drive some of the fanciest cars around.
> 
> My partner in one of my ventures is also a Lawyer.
> 
> ...


You are not rude at all 
Discussions are not always pretty. All about expressing your point. 

Did not say lawyers are bad people...

But like anyone they need to get paid.
I am sorry if you believe the justice system is fair between rich and poor...

It is not...
I heard stories in South Africa, of people getting off for murder for a few pennies... 
And others being locked up for smaller things...

It all came down, to weather you killed somebody with financial means or street beggar...

Now that is an extreme.

I am not saying lawyers are guilty... Just the way the world works...
The rich will definately get better health care than the poor... Fact..

So my point is this.. Not that lawyers are bad people...
Its just the way the system works.

Big corporations, can get away with a lot...
The little guy always gets taken for a ride...

It has very little to do with who is right or wrong.
Rich get richer, poor get poorer... And every now and again, we hear about an amazing story, of rags to riches, or winning a big case against a major corporation...

But that is simply not the way the world works. It is the exception to the rule.


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## BeachLvr (Jul 17, 2013)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> No.
> 
> The above is fanciful thinking. It is completely untrue. No corporation will give its money to a garbage attorney with a weak case. Never!
> 
> ...


Wow, no large corporation ever settles a suit without admitting fault or liability for large sums of undisclosed amounts of money. This doesn't happen on a daily basis in the US judicial system.


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