# resource guarding (video)



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

http://youtu.be/K-5Ez86SghQ


How do i fix this? I cant take things away from him once he takes it to his bed without getting physical. If i take it away before he reaches his bed then hes fine. hes not just barking. if you reach in, he will bite and bite hard!


----------



## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Take away his bed. Practice NILIF. You are the owner of everything in the house. Don't get physical, he can win so don't engage.

Is the resource guarding just with toys?


----------



## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I can't post links with this tablet, but google mind games and search here there are tons of posts about resource guarding. I have 2 that guard from each other and other animals but not from me. They will give snarly faces to each other maybe a little bark but not like that. If its a really high value item like a bone I have to trick Apache, I will say ok let's go out, as he tries to go out with the bone I tell him "leave it" and he will drop it. I would not allow your dog to have anything unless you give it to him, then I would safely practice trading games.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

simba405 said:


> Resource guarding - YouTube
> 
> 
> How do i fix this? I cant take things away from him once he takes it to his bed without getting physical. If i take it away before he reaches his bed then hes fine. hes not just barking. if you reach in, he will bite and bite hard!



No more bed then! Remove his access (or get rid of it altogether). Have him *earn* his freedom and right to have certain objects.


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Quite scary looking, indeed.

How do grab his leash, or remove him from that corner?

First thing I would do is remove his little corner. No toys, no bed, nothing to guard.

No dog will EVER tell me where I can and can't go.

Then, I would look into what others have to say about dealing with the issue itself.

BTW.... Your reactions are feeding the behavior. It's almost as if you're encouraging it.


----------



## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

I don't doubt that he will bite. You have a leash on him. That's a good first start. He is in a corner surrounded by things that creates a very protective den-like situation for him. Remove his bed from that corner. I don't think you need to remove his bed altogether; you can practice moving it all over the place. One morning he might have his bed in the middle of a room, the next evening he might have it somewhere else. Not a static "this is my bed" spot, but a "this is where you lay" sort of idea. Remove all those toys lying around. Keep that leash on him. If he is not obedience trained, start a military like attitude with your lifestyle; training and train at the club, in your yard, and include inside your house. Even if your house is small, you make sure your training is consistent, rewarding for him, and start drilling him. Sit, down, come, sit, up, finish, heel all in the space of your home. Don't think of this so much about telling him no, or stopping a negative behavior. Turn your mind the other way and consider showing him what "to do" in life. What is life in my home, what is life during our walks, etc... In the absence of direction, dogs just make up **** on their own. I agree with the above posters. NILIF all the way but make sure that engaging you isn't a negative, but a rewarding, fun positive life. Off to work now...


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

When I watched the video, I had a different idea of what's going on. When you're saying, "Can I have it?" it sounds like you're laughing and you've made a game out of this. I doubt you intended for this to be the result, but now that you have, it's time to change the game before it gets out of hand. Teaching 'drop it' and 'leave it' are very important. He's still a puppy and you definitely don't want this behavior to escalate.


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

What others said. No more bed, all of those toys and various things would be put away and he would be kept out of that corner. And I'd start playing trading games with him and making him earn every single piece of food. Leash would be attached to me.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Everything goes into the garbage. No more toys, bones or treats. No more dog bed or freedom or feeding out of a bowl. If they are not with me, they are crated. It is hardcore NILIF. 

They are literally stripped off everything and I make them so dependent on me that they will eat out of my hand or else they will not get a single piece of food. Little by little they earn their freedom. If they fall back into old behavior, I start all over again.


----------



## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

This would not fly in my house. 

Like others have stated.... Remove everything. Toys, bed, and if he still shows that reaction in that "den" he's made..... block that off too! He gets NOTHING, unless he earns it. Crate him whenever he can't be attached to you... put a longer leash on him so you don't have to get by his face if he acts out.

I would definitely start hardcore NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) in that house!

Before this gets even more out of control, it's time to put a stop to it. He can have everything back when he's decided to play nice and step down. You're the owner, you own the home, and YOU control his life... not him.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

That really is scary.
You have already received excellent advice.
Have no toys for him lying around. Give them, and when play time is over, they get put away.
NILIF immediately. You call the shots, not him.


----------



## lily's master (Jul 16, 2012)

NILIF works great. I did this when I was working on training Lily. I noticed a huge diffrence in the way she looked at me, she was finally looking at me as her leader. Even though she is pretty much trained, as far as companion pet goes, I still dont let her have her toys unless I am playing with her. The toys and fun stuff come from me. The only thing "toy like" that she gets without me is a bully bone or her kong. She gets no tug toys, squeak toys, balls, etc without me involved either as a play session or as a reward for good behavior.


----------



## ragu (Feb 21, 2013)

Keep us posted!!!


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> *When I watched the video, I had a different idea of what's going on. When you're saying, "Can I have it?" it sounds like you're laughing and you've made a game out of this.*


 
my first impression as well but gave the poster the benefit of the doubt.


you could always exploit this and enter him in an object guarding competition :laugh:


----------



## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

x11 said:


> my first impression as well but gave the poster the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> 
> you could always exploit this and enter him in an object guarding competition :laugh:



was my impression too, and it made me laugh, but assumed that it was to elicit the response poster wanted us to see besides the fact that the real issue isn't a laughing matter :blush:


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

all seems a bit suspect to me, has the OP even acknowledged any responses on this thread??? he has been give some great advice.


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

Hello all. I've actually read the responses and i am very grateful for the advice but i respectfully disagree with NILIF so i havent responded until now.

first off, my voice is just naturally high. i dont have this low booming voice. also when i say stuff in an upbeat manner it seems to work better. if i come at him with a stern low voice he immediately gets aggressive because he knows what im there for. 

anyways i disagree with NILIF because taking his toy away and locking him in his crate makes him associate you + crate as negative. he doesnt really wanna give up his toy. he just does it because he doesnt wanna get locked up. also when hes crazy like that, i'd like to see any of you try to get him into his crate. i wanted a dog that when i took something from them, they WANT to give it up. not because they have to. if im at a bbq and a friend unknowingly threw him a cooked rib bone and i went to take it away and he growls because its super duper high value treat then what? stand there and threaten to crate him? pop his prong until he lets go?

i fixed the problem in 4 sessions just by using positive methods. i approached him with a treat. when he grows i got no closer and threw it to him. eventually he'd let me be right next to him without any signs of aggression. finally i could take the toy away and trade him a treat and lots of praise. by the end i would praise and only give treats ever so often. 

i actually dont even own a crate. hes had free run of the house since 8 months old. hes really well behaved while the family is at work during the day. we have a shoe rack with lots of shoes and he doesnt even touch it. he doesnt even get on the furniture. but sometimes (mostly in the early morning when im too lazy to wake up at 6) he will get bored and grab something to chew on. i'd have to get up and take it from him. over time i guess he associated me approaching his bed as negative and im always taking stuff away. now he wants me to approach his bed. its a positive experience for him. resource guarding fixed without taking all of his toys and things away and being strict. point is there is more than one way to train/fix problems other than being "alpha"


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

http://youtu.be/56sq65tlcak

There is the video of the solution. when i reached out to grab it, he lets go before i could finishing saying out. he wanted to let go. not because he has to. 

i didnt make this thread as a joke. he honestly had some serious resource guarding issues. i just didnt agree with NILIF so i seeked advice elsewhere. its amazing how a vicious aggressive dog in the first video can turn into a nice calm dog in the second video (in 2 days) just by changing the way he was thinking. i appreciate all the advice and hopefully people who have dogs with resource guarding can see that it can be fixed.


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

simba405 said:


> anyways i disagree with NILIF because taking his toy away and locking him in his crate makes him associate you + crate as negative. he doesnt really wanna give up his toy. he just does it because he doesnt wanna get locked up. also when hes crazy like that, i'd like to see any of you try to get him into his crate. i wanted a dog that when i took something from them, they WANT to give it up. not because they have to. if im at a bbq and a friend unknowingly threw him a cooked rib bone and i went to take it away and he growls because its super duper high value treat then what? stand there and threaten to crate him? pop his prong until he lets go?


 
You don't understand NILIF. It's not a punishment or something to be done when they aren't behaving and only then. It's an all the time thing with anything. Also, putting him in a crate as a "time out" done properly (as in not showing anger) does not create a negative association with your or the crate. 

What everyone on this thread advocated was controling his resources, time and space to teach him that you are the person who gives it to him and that you being around those things is GOOD. Not punishing him by locking him away in a crate. Actually, no one in this thread even mentioned correcting him. 

As others have said, his behavior is part of a game. It very clearly is to him in the video. He picked up the bear and showed it to you in order to get you to try and take it away so he could growl. You've successfully rewarded him for that. It's fun now. 

Your other video is private.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I didn't see a vicious aggressive dog, I saw a puppy that was barking and growling. I didn't mean to insult you, and if that's how you took my comment then I apologize that it came across that way. I still think teaching 'drop it' is very important, especially for instances like you brought up, at a bbq. I don't know why you'd think this can't be fun - I constantly reinforce this command while my puppy's playing with his flirt pole. He loves to 'drop it' because that's when the game starts.

I'd like to see the other video, if you can un-private it.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah, NILIF is actually positive reinforcement just as much as a clicker is. You don't have to be mean about it. You can get a super happy dog out of it. 

Gizmo had some serious aggression issues, and I put him through a shut down and than practiced hardcore NILIF and made him so dependent on me and this house, he doesn't even want to leave this area. He was a runner, not anymore. He had not a single unsupervised second. Every minute of his life was controlled to keep him safe from what he would do to the other dogs or himself by going after them. 

Trust, me I was one of the most anti-crate people out there but I have come to love it for what it is, a great tool that keeps dogs out of trouble and yeah, during the shut-down he was almost crated for 14 hours a day but that dog was so out of his mind, he needed it and he appreciated it. 

Nilif can be used in combination with BAT, which is what I did. If he chose to look the other way, he got a treat. If he chose not to show his teeth, he got a treat. If he chose to offer me behavior, he got a treat (basically his food). 
If he chose to be calm and quiet in his crate, he got his food. 
If he chose not to jump up on the couch and walk all over me, he got food. If he chose to lay down, he got food. 

He had no house manners, was dog aggressive, resource guarding, the whole nine yards and with all that it took me three weeks to turn him around. He still has to learn certain manners but that dog is nowhere near comparable to what he was like when I picked him up. 

NILIF is positively reinforcing what you ask of the dog and at the same time teaching them discipline because they have to earn their freedom while you positively reinforce the wanted behavior. 

No yelling, screaming, kicking, slapping, etc. is involved. 

If the dogs cannot be nice about toys, bones, rewards, treats, they are completely removed from the picture. A, no dog will ever show his/her teeth towards me. I'm the one feeding, rewarding, giving. I'm their whole world, their god. I'm the resource. Without me, there is no food, play, treats or water. 

Also, no dog will ever be allowed to build themselves a Den and then guard it from me. I am demanding. While I leave them alone most of the time and don't generally take food or toys away and only do it if there is an issue, they better don't do what your dog did in the video, even if it's a "Game". I respect my dogs freedom and they better respect me in return and I honestly do not care if it is a game or not. 

May sound harsh but honestly, hardcore NILIF is one of the most humane ways to turn a dog around. 

Feeding the dog something more valuable works too so does the exchange game but a dog acting like that towards his handler has no respect. And that respect can be earned by being a strong leader. Not with harsh corrections and fear but by actually leading the dog and showing him "Look, this is not how it works. If you want something, you got to earn it!"

It's the same concept like raising kids. If you want them to learn how to value something, you make them earn it. If I wanted gas money for my car, I had to work on the farm and earn the gas money.


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

sorry it is no longer private. i promise you it is NOT a game to him. he isnt showing me the bear to try to get me to get it. he picked it up and put it closer to him because he was afraid i would take it. he has bitten my dad in the stomach because my dad tried to take something away. he isnt playing. if you reach in just to pet him, he will bite. 

at the end of the day it is my fault for being lazy and not crating him and as you said, control what he has access to. but i want my dog to know what he can touch and what he cant. i also want him to know that everything is mine and i can take it when i want. i can control his toys and food but when he grabs onto something he isnt suppose to i want to be able to take it away without a fight. i am sure that NILIF works as you guys have wayyyyy more experience than me. im just saying there is another way. also i would feel bad if he was laying at home all day without nothing to play with or do and was crated. either way i do appreciate all the advice!


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Nilif lets you play with your dog. It simply means that he has to earn it. Basically obedience is nothing but nilif. If they heel nicely they get to play. It is a reward based system. If they want food they earn it. If they want affection they earn it. If they want out the door, they earn it. If they want to play tug. They earn it. 

Also, clean up that room. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

haha yeah that room is dirty. i've told him multiple times to clean it but he just lays there and looks at me. 

he does earn stuff. i dont just give him his food. he has to sit/lay down/shake/kiss/speak etc. when he brings me his tug toy to play he has to also does commands. he has a good out and i can swing his tug in front of his face and he wont move until i say get it. 

the problem i have with NILIF in regards to resource guarding is if he growls and i put him in his crate and then let him out a little bit later and if he growls again i have to put him up again. i just dont see anything positive about that. i dont want him to not guard because hes afraid of losing stuff/priviledge. i want him to not guard because hes anticipating good things happening when he doesnt.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

watched the second, video, nice no conflict. whatever you did works so good for you, nice dog.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I think he's a nice dog too. Good work!

Just make sure that nobody is teasing him with his toys, because that's what it looked like in the first video, and it's a bad habit that gets worse and ends badly. And having all that stuffing around, and whatever, could cause a blockage if he eats it. Maybe you could get him some kongs, cuz, or other less destructable toys to play with for when he's unsupervised. Just a thought. Have fun with him


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

simba405 said:


> 20130411_192544.mp4 - YouTube
> 
> There is the video of the solution. when i reached out to grab it, he lets go before i could finishing saying out. he wanted to let go. not because he has to.
> 
> i didnt make this thread as a joke. he honestly had some serious resource guarding issues. i just didnt agree with NILIF so i seeked advice elsewhere. its amazing how a vicious aggressive dog in the first video can turn into a nice calm dog in the second video (in 2 days) just by changing the way he was thinking. i appreciate all the advice and hopefully people who have dogs with resource guarding can see that it can be fixed.


Whether you realize it or not, it sounds as if you were already doing NILIF. You honestly don't completely understand it, and are wrongly associating a crate and punishment as NILIF.

i'm curious what methods were used to correct this behavior?

Also, you mention him biting your father.
If what you say is true, you really do need to take control of this dog, because I don't think you can change a dog's ways in only 2 days.

Oh, one more thing..... The area is really messy. Not only is it messy, it's messy with dangerous items. All that stuffing, and little things that could easily be swallowed.

Personally, I think you're creating a monster


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

ahahahaha how am i creating a monster? i do have a little common sense. i've closely watched him chew up a toy with stuffing before. he never swallows it. he just likes to destroy it and then spit it out. usually the only thing he gets to chew on are raw knuckle bones or stew bones. my little sister just found those and thought he'd have a good time destroying them. 

the area is messy but my little monster knows that he is only allowed to play with his bones and his 3 toys. everything else is off limits. i dont come home to him laying on his bed chewing on a bunch of my things. i wouldnt let him have free run of the house when no one is home if that was the case. im not one of those people that have to lock everything up and "puppy proof" a room. in a sense im proud that the room is so messy and yet he doesnt destroy anything that isnt given to him. i leave his liver treats on a low table and he doesnt even touch it. he is very well behaved.

his only issue was resource guarding at certain times. maybe i cant fix it in 2 days but the results in that video were drastic and i am very happy with it. you may be skeptical and thats fine. but if a video cant convince you of his change nothing will.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

simba405 said:


> *in a sense im proud that the room is so messy*....


i hear ya brother


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

simba405 said:


> the problem i have with NILIF in regards to resource guarding is if he growls and i put him in his crate and then let him out a little bit later and if he growls again i have to put him up again. i just dont see anything positive about that. i dont want him to not guard because hes afraid of losing stuff/priviledge. i want him to not guard because hes anticipating good things happening when he doesnt.


Again, that is not NILIF. NILIF is proactive not reactive. Crating would be done as prevention when you cant supervise not as a punishment.

Positive reinforcement - teaching him to give something up because its good falls directly in line with NILIF. I really suggest you do some research on it before dismissing something you dont understand.


----------



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

simba405 said:


> ahahahaha how am i creating a monster? i do have a little common sense. i've closely watched him chew up a toy with stuffing before. he never swallows it. he just likes to destroy it and then spit it out. usually the only thing he gets to chew on are raw knuckle bones or stew bones. my little sister just found those and thought he'd have a good time destroying them.
> 
> the area is messy but my little monster knows that he is only allowed to play with his bones and his 3 toys. everything else is off limits. i dont come home to him laying on his bed chewing on a bunch of my things. i wouldnt let him have free run of the house when no one is home if that was the case. im not one of those people that have to lock everything up and "puppy proof" a room. in a sense im proud that the room is so messy and yet he doesnt destroy anything that isnt given to him. i leave his liver treats on a low table and he doesnt even touch it. *he is very well behaved.*
> 
> his only issue was resource guarding at certain times. maybe i cant fix it in 2 days but the results in that video were drastic and i am very happy with it. you may be skeptical and thats fine. but if a video cant convince you of his change nothing will.


I don't want to get into a hissy match with you, but it sounds as if you think your dog has a humanized way of thinking. Today, he'll spit it out, but it won't take much to swallow a piece.
Don't take it personal, it's an accident waiting to happen.

As far as being well behaved.... Your video was not well behaved. Sorry. These are dogs, not programable machines. Their thought process is way different than ours.
Most of us here, speak from either vast amount of experience or proper training. My personal experiences tells me that dogs can easily fool us humans into a sense of security. I've believed on more than one occasion, that my dog wouldn't do this or that, and she's proven me wrong.
remember.. Your dog did bite someone. He does have an underlying issue. Whether or not he decides to show you, is entirely up to how you train him.

And as far as giving him stuff to destroy, that's fine. But give him stuff made to be destroyed by dogs. Why give him dangerous materials, and expect him to know better?

Hey, as I said... Don't take it personal. We all look out for the dogs, and at the same time, share some common knowledge.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Nothing in Life is Free


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I just wanted to post on what I saw.

First video, he wasn't kidding. I was going to suggest trading up with treats, but read that is what you did. OKayyyy, in the 2nd video, I didn't see you treat him when he gave you the toy? 

While I'm all for the other suggestions made, if your working with him by trading up, as in 'treating' him for giving up whatever you want him to give up, I would be continuing to do that,(and not just on his bed) because you think you have fixed it in 4 tries(?) , doesn't mean it's going to stick...


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

thats a really clear article on NILIF. if that is NILIF then i've been practicing that since i got him at 8 weeks. he has to sit before he gets food. when my family feeds him they make him do the "cute" tricks like high five, pray, bang bang, kiss etc. when i nap he doesnt bother me. when we go on walks he has to bring me his leash etc.

so i've been practicing NILIF. i guess what im confused is how does it fix resource guarding? if he growls and i take his toy away how will the issue eventually get fixed? and does it actually get fixed or does it just get masked? 

i use to be a firm believer in the "alpha" roll and use of the prong collar. when he would guard i would pop his collar and make him go sit across the room and stay while i go to his bed and take away the item. but eventually i realized that this method only masked the behavior. he didnt want to relinquish his toy, he just didnt like the pain. so when his prong wasnt on, he would resource guard again. it didnt fix anything, just masked it.

with adding things instead of removing things approach, i feel like hes actually wanting to not resource guard. maybe its fools gold but it feels like im fixing instead of masking. i dont treat every time. i just do it every once in awhile. i dont want him dependent on treats. i never take his food away but today i just wanted to test and took a chicken drumstick out of his mouth without any growling or lip curling or ANY signs of aggression. im sure its not completely fixed in 2 days but i am a very happy camper and work with him constantly and so far hes doing great.


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> because you think you have fixed it in 4 tries(?) , doesn't mean it's going to stick...


i didnt fix it in 4 tries. i fixed it in 4 sessions. he probably got 50 little pieces of steak in 2 days along with lots of praise.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

simba - might be just me but you appear intent on starting an argument???


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

not my intent. i asked for advice and everyone on here told me to use NILIF and yet no one could explain clearly how to use NILIF to fix resource guarding or the psychology behind it. also i just asked if NILIF in terms of resource guarding really fixes or just masks the issue and no one answers. they just keep telling me to use nilif.

but im done with this thread. sorry if i offended anyone


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

simba405 said:


> so i've been practicing NILIF. i guess what im confused is how does it fix resource guarding? if he growls and i take his toy away how will the issue eventually get fixed? and does it actually get fixed or does it just get masked?


With NILIF the dog doesn't GET the toy until they have earned it AND they know how to give it up when asked.

Giving up something is a very simple thing to teach a dog. The problem is most people do NOT "teach" this until the dog already has possessive issues.

I start with my guys as puppies but the theory is the same. Have the dog sitting in a quiet room with no distractions. You have two things - a toy they love and a bowl of VERYVERYVERY high value treats. I'm talking chunks of chicken breast or steak - not dog biscuits.

Hold the toy out to the dog and let them take hold of it but DO NOT let go. The moment they have it in their mouth give the command you want to use to make them let go of something. I use OUS! for my Shepherd and LEAVE IT! for everyone else.

I give the command and then shove one of the high value treats right in the dogs nose.

99% of dogs will instantly give up the object for the reward. Let them have the reward while you say "GOOD OUS/LEAVE IT!!"

Let the dog finish the treat then do it again.

This first training session has you using the toy but in a very matter of fact manor.

As you progress you will start making the toy more fun. Play tug for a few seconds then give the command and reward when the dog complies.

For that 1% of dogs - like my boy Mauser - for whom the TOY is more valuable than the reward - you will use toy identical toys. When you give the command you will show the dog the other toy. Once they relinquish the first toy you can toss them the other one. Pick up the first toy and get ready to repeat.

For Mauser, nothing in this world is as important as the Almighty Tennis Ball ... aka The Yellow Orb of Joy!!!

Except another one!


----------



## GSDMUM (Aug 18, 2011)

First of all I'm glad that it is getting better BUT, you "fixed the problem" in a matter of only two days??? You posted on the evening of the 9th and two evenings later it's fixed. I wouldn't be too sure. I have a resource guarder and it took a while . She never gueards from me anymore but does with our other dog. One day it may look like she is doing sooo much better with it and the next she can get nasty to him. It's a work in progress although at least she is fine with me. I move her areas of guarding. This throws her off and she kind of looks flabbergasted. My older dog will distract her by scratching on our back door as if he has to go out, I get up and she gets up to follow me and then he makes an 180 degree turn and darts off to get whatever she was guarding. He does it the smart way!! No confrontations if he can help it. It can get quite amusing as she just runs back mystified at what just happened.
It did look like you were making it a game in your tone and the amount of time you stood there asking her for the object. Just an observation.


----------

