# Sabo's evaluation!



## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

WOOOOOO!!!!! We made it!!!!!! Michael said that he is willing to work with Sabo and I!!!! His drive was diminished a bit today due to it all being a new area, but it was there, he was willing to play with a flirt pole, and Mike said to work on it at home that he realizes it's a new area, we need to get him to focus no matter where. When Mike asked me to show him Sabos obedience it was SPOT ON! I never taught Sabo the formal heel, so we kinda sucked at that, but he gave me a belt with hotdogs and that improved it all...he was VERY impressed with Sabo's "sit/stay" especially that I could drop the leash and walk away and Sabo didn't move, the same with the down/stay. He brought out a jump just to see what Sabo would do, so I sat Sabo on one side and started walking around to the other and he said "You think he will do it?"...and I said YUP! And called him over and he charged right over...had to check it out after because it's not like ours (the wooden planks vs PVC) but he went over! Then he went over a few more times!!!! I can't wait! I"m going to call him tonight with my schedule and lay out a schedule for us!

Thank you for ALL your support! I can't wait!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Another one addicted. Enjoy the journey!!


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## Wolfenstein (Feb 26, 2009)

That is SO awesome! Have fun!!


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

YAY! :happyboogie:

You go, girl!  Kat


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

You're from my area. I wonder if that is the same breeder/trainer I got my puppy from.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

See, told you it was worth trying!! Glad it went well.


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

trcy said:


> You're from my area. I wonder if that is the same breeder/trainer I got my puppy from.


wustenberger land??? 

Thank you all so much for the encouragement!!!!! I got to see his dogs too, all gorgeous!!!!! 


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

erfunhouse said:


> wustenberger land???
> 
> Thank you all so much for the encouragement!!!!! I got to see his dogs too, all gorgeous!!!!!
> 
> ...


yes. I got my puppy there about 1 1/2 weeks ago. After he finishes his shots we'll be going to their club meets. 

Kaleb (3 months):


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## Redrider469 (Jul 19, 2013)

Congrats, keep us posted with the progress!! I still can't get my Leena to stay when I walk away. How'd you get Sabo to stay?


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

Redrider469 said:


> Congrats, keep us posted with the progress!! I still can't get my Leena to stay when I walk away. How'd you get Sabo to stay?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Tiny steps. Put him in a sit/down. Say wait....don't move count to 3. Release and treat. Then count to 5, then take 1 step back, count to 3 again; one step back, count to five and slowly build up. Make it a good treat- with Sabo is was playing with his rope- so that they are always watching. I can now sit him and walk across the yard with my back to him (sometimes). When they make a mistake, don't be upset I just say "uh-oh!" No treat no game. Take him back, and back up a step or two and treat to remind him what game we are playing. 


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Congrats on your evaluation - you guys will have so much fun!

People get their panties all in a was stressing over an evaluation, wanting to make sure that their dog is perfect and impressive in the training they have already gotten - but truth is, an experienced trainer can tell a LOT about a dog just by observing and playing with her, even if she had had ZERO training. 

It doesn't matter if your dog knows how to sit or not - that can always be trained later. What they are looking for is confidence in a new situation, prey drive, willingness to engage with strangers, and the relationship with the owner. Is your dog avoiding you? or is your dog focused on you, looking to you for direction and fun? etc . . .


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## Redrider469 (Jul 19, 2013)

erfunhouse said:


> Tiny steps. Put him in a sit/down. Say wait....don't move count to 3. Release and treat. Then count to 5, then take 1 step back, count to 3 again; one step back, count to five and slowly build up. Make it a good treat- with Sabo is was playing with his rope- so that they are always watching. I can now sit him and walk across the yard with my back to him (sometimes). When they make a mistake, don't be upset I just say "uh-oh!" No treat no game. Take him back, and back up a step or two and treat to remind him what game we are playing.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks for the tips, ill give it a try. Congrats again!!



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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

erfunhouse said:


> wustenberger land???


I saw some videos in Youtube and I'm not overly impressed with the training. I know the yanking around is common in _certain_ circles, but is has nothing to do with what Schutzhund should look like. 

Just compare by yourself.
Personal protection dogs - YouTube

CATO malabig obedience 112010.mpg - YouTube


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

as if wouldnt make it...LOL knew that handsome boy would , never a doubt


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

Catu said:


> I saw some videos in Youtube and I'm not overly impressed with the training. I know the yanking around is common in _certain_ circles, but is has nothing to do with what Schutzhund should look like.
> 
> Just compare by yourself.
> Personal protection dogs - YouTube
> ...


The second video won't load for me. I did see one correction in the first. Corrections don't bother me. I watched him work a new dog he's training, and he does use a combo of treats, praise, and corrections. I hate corrections, and am on the fence as to whether or not they are necessary (I'm a softie) and will watch the second video when it loads for me. Can you explain what I missed in the first? 


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

Msmaria said:


> as if wouldnt make it...LOL knew that handsome boy would , never a doubt





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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

erfunhouse said:


> The second video won't load for me. I did see one correction in the first. Corrections don't bother me. I watched him work a new dog he's training, and he does use a combo of treats, praise, and corrections. I hate corrections, and am on the fence as to whether or not they are necessary (I'm a softie) and will watch the second video when it loads for me. Can you explain what I missed in the first?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


From what I observed (and I'm a complete novice) The second video did not use a leash. It looked like a lot of treats were being given, but I could be wrong. 

Treats are effective. With Riley we went to training class that did not treat train. I did not know and showed up with my bag of treats. I had a few dogs glued to me and mirroring all my moves....lol

I don't have any reservations about his training. They have been doing this for years and titled many dogs. Everyone has their own way of training though.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STxuXJgUyMg

here's some off leash work in a public park with distractions. (read the description under the video)


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## BoTaBe (May 2, 2013)

erfunhouse said:


> The second video won't load for me. I did see one correction in the first. Corrections don't bother me. I watched him work a new dog he's training, and he does use a combo of treats, praise, and corrections. I hate corrections, and am on the fence as to whether or not they are necessary (I'm a softie) and will watch the second video when it loads for me. Can you explain what I missed in the first?


I'd say: In the 1st video the dog doesn't really have fun. It's propably prong collar, short leash and just walking... No 'relationship' between dog & handler, I bet the dog wouldn't be there if he wasn't on a leash... 

In the 2nd video the dog has fun, gets treats if he does something right and WANTS to work with his handler. 
Last point definitely not the case in the first video...


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

BoTaBe said:


> I'd say: In the 1st video the dog doesn't really have fun. It's propably prong collar, short leash and just walking... No 'relationship' between dog & handler, I bet the dog wouldn't be there if he wasn't on a leash...
> 
> In the 2nd video the dog has fun, gets treats if he does something right and WANTS to work with his handler.
> Last point definitely not the case in the first video...


Yeah, that was my point. not if the dogs receive corrections or not (I can be very heavy handed myself to most pet standards), but there is no bond between dog and handler. The dog only looks at the handler if he "tricks" him into believe he has something in the hand. I would expect that from one of my clients who only wants good leash manners, not from for a "Protection Trained, level 3 Obedience Dog" from someone who offers to teach others.

Trcy video is even worst.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

In this thread you have a nive heeling video to compare:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/317082-creasy-learning-heel.html


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

First of all congrats. I'm excited for you. 

2nd in the first video(to me) the dog looks worried and stressed. He looks back serval times. I wonder if maybe this isn't his dog? The training for a schutzhund heel isn't great. For a dog that insecure in the exercise there is very little praise or excitement. I don't know why people are so afraid to get excited when training their dog. 

Personally I would look around for other clubs to compare. You don't have to settle with the first one that you try out at. 


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

trcy said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STxuXJgUyMg
> 
> here's some off leash work in a public park with distractions. (read the description under the video)


That dog looks miserable. I'm not a pos only trainer. I've given some hard correction when needed. But looks like that dog has taken too many hard corrections to learn an exercise that should have been fun. Worried, ears back, expecting a correction with the auto sit. 


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

He does train other people's dogs for them (basic obedience) and well, what can you do in a short amount of time when given a dog that has had run of the house for a year or more? The dog isn't bonded you know? I personally blame owners that dont train their dog then send them to someone wanting miracles for some money. He showed me a Belgian he had for about three weeks who was a terror at home and nearly two years old that was sent to him for training. No visible signs of stress, but no locked down bond and working to love. 

Here is one of his dogs who does seem to look a bit happier who is learning protection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=726HvJtc3VI

And the video with Isa she doesn't look happy on leash, but once she's off shes prancing and appears happier. 

ANYWAY...point being, we made it! A trainer is IMO a guide. No one says you MUST do it all their way, and if I am not allowed to interject how MY dog works and use what I know of my dog, well then it's time to find another.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

That protection video was fun. Nice work for a beginner dog - dealt with the pressure, just fine. Pressure was appropriate for her level and temperament.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> ANYWAY...point being, we made it! A trainer is IMO a guide. No one says you MUST do it all their way, and if I am not allowed to interject how MY dog works and use what I know of my dog, well then it's time to find another.


That is a great attitude to take with you. Learn as much as you can, have fun, and listen to your gut. You know your dog best, so trust your feelings on that.


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## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> That is a great attitude to take with you. Learn as much as you can, have fun, and listen to your gut. You know your dog best, so trust your feelings on that.


Thank you!  Our agility instructor was the same way. I told her we'd been playing with my home made stuff at home and he was comfortable with jumps. Showed her how I did it and how he was willing to work with me and she tweeked ME not him...I'm the one who is showing him, so change things in ME and I'll be able to better guide him.


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## Wolfenstein (Feb 26, 2009)

erfunhouse said:


> And the video with Isa she doesn't look happy on leash, but once she's off shes prancing and appears happier.


Just throwing this out there as an observation... I wonder if the stress on the leash vs. off could be connected with TEACHING using corrections, rather than using corrections to "clean up" something the dog already knows. This, I think, is the inherent difficulty with teaching a dog initially through corrections, they realize when the corrections are coming or not. I think it's much more effective to teach something through other methods like luring or shaping until the dog at least understands what you're asking of it, then adding corrections as needed on the dog, starting soft and working up to what might be necessary.

Like I said, just an observation and a guess.  You definitely have the right mindset in that you know what's best for your dog, and just know to walk away if you're being bullied into something you don't feel comfortable with. I agree that there is a big difference between a dog being dropped off for board and train and helping someone work with their own dog.


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