# Signs of Pannus??



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I didn't want to hijack malinois_16's thread so started a new one...

*malinois_16*


> "WHAT ARE THE SIGNS OF PANNUS?
> _Initially, redness and brown pigment may be seen in the sclera (the white of the eye)_. White infiltrates made up of inflammatory cells then invade the clear cornea, followed by blood vessels. Finally, pink connective tissue grows into the cornea and later becomes brown."


*BlackthornGSD*


> Hmm. I've seen dogs get the brown in the whites of their eye with no irritation and progression. I've asked vets about it and was told "it's just pigment." In the cases I'm talking about, this pigment is not on the surface of the cornea--it's not raised up any.


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When I was a new puppy parent and Sage's brown pigment spread to the white of his eye I took him to the vet worrying about pannus. I was told this was normal, just pigment.

Here are the best shots I could find before pigment change



























Here are more current photos
































































At 5 months of age he had to have surgery to remove a piece of leaf that became embedded in his cornea. No mention then of any other eye concerns. He has been to the vet 3-4 times since April and no mention of any concerns.

His right eye has remained clear but the left one is not. 

I'm all worried now and confused as to what is normal pigment change and what is a sign of pannus. Do you guys think I should have some tests ran or does this look normal? I can get better photos up tomorrow if needed.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

sagelfn said:


> I'm all worried now and confused as to what is normal pigment change and what is a sign of pannus. Do you guys think I should have some tests ran or does this look normal? I can get better photos up tomorrow if needed.


I'm not a vet, but his eyes look fine to me! I've had dogs with that brown pigment in the white of the eye that did not develop pannus or any other eye issues.

What you want to look for is an opaque/cloudy spot on the eye, blood vessels visible on the cornea, or any raised area on the cornea.

Since it's pretty expensive to see a canine specialist, and your dog doesn't appear to be symptomatic, I wouldn't burn rubber to the vet over this.

Edited to add: What a sweet face!


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

On the second pic up from the bottom. There appears to be a spot on the cornea edge. Can you get a better picture of that?

If hes not showing symptoms I would just leave it but keep an eye on it. Lincolns eyes were fine for a few months then started to get worse. Are the whites of his eyes red at all or anything? Was the spot were the leaf was removed?


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Freestep said:


> What you want to look for is an opaque/cloudy spot on the eye, blood vessels visible on the cornea, or any raised area on the cornea.
> 
> Edited to add: What a sweet face!


That is why I haven't really thought much of it until seeing this last thread. His eyes look bright and clear to me - except the brown pigment in the white of the eye

Thank you, he is a big goober :wub:



Malinois_16 said:


> On the second pic up from the bottom. There appears to be a spot on the cornea edge. Can you get a better picture of that?


I will. I had not noticed it until seeing that picture. Not sure if it is the photo or what but I will check it out and get better pictures up.

I have not noticed any scars from where the leaf was. Can't tell there was ever a problem and his vision has been tested and was fine.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Brandi, His eyes look fine. The color can leak and it's common. I'll send you pics of Jax and of the thread when I asked about the color tomorrow when I get back from my meeting.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

If the brown pigment is "normal" then I wonder why LisaT told me she thought Lincolns brown pigment was Pannus...but anyone else with brown pigment is just a colour leak


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

This is why I'm confused. What is normal and what isn't


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## High5 (Apr 21, 2011)

Katies pigment has leaked too. My last dog was the same also and I never had any problems. Just going by what I can see in you pics your dogs eyes look normal to me.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Yeah but Lincolns cornea is clear to. Its just the white part thats brown and a tiny bit leaking in.

Were his whites ever inflammed before the pigment came in?

I would post my thread about it on the other forum but not sure if its allowed here. Links sclera was inflammed before the pigment came in

Rubys eyes never had any inflammation which is why we think her brown pigment is normal aging

Sagelfin, if you dont have me on ignore I have sent you a pm with the link to the other thread about it so you can see how his first started. Anyone else that wants it please pm me


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Sage's eyes look fine to me.


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## High5 (Apr 21, 2011)

Here is a good site about problems with eyes. At the bottom they even have a submit your pic/ask a vet. You can also look through previously submitted pics and questions. 
Dog Eye Problems - The 8 Most Common & Treatment Options


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I see what you are looking at.

LOTS of things can affect the eye, and sometimes something like the wrong food can cause a reaction in the eye that causes a bit of discoloration. One of the hallmarks of pannus, is an irregular surface that is lumpy from inflammation, is chronic, and progresses.

Pigment can leak, from the changes in the shape of the eye, from what I just learned from here: Eyes??? Color leaking into white? - GermanShepherdHome.net
.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

You are not ignored. I am at work and sometimes slow to respond. I messaged you back


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Out of curiousity, what makes Lincolns pigment different from Sages? Is it because Lincolns eye was inflammed before the pigment came in?


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Malinois_16 - Sage's eye has never looked like that. No inflammation or anything like your pictures show. I had not seen that thread and was going by the photos you had just posted.

Lisa- Thank you for that link, I had not seen that thread. I haven't read it yet (will later) but skimmed over the pictures. This is what I'm seeing in Sage. It seems though that sometimes the leaky pigment is more pronounced 3rd from bottom to 6th from bottom. Are you saying that could jut be an allergy?


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Here's my take for what it's worth, probably less than $0.02 but you never know!

Only pigment leaking is most likely just simply that, pigment.

Pigment leaking with inflammation *can* be a sign of Pannus.

There you have it, my $0.01-$0.02


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

sagelfn said:


> Are you saying that could jut be an allergy?


If it's associated with some occasional redness, yes. If it's just the dark stuff, and no other issues, it seems like it's just leaky pigment. weird, huh?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

malinois_16 said:


> Out of curiousity, what makes Lincolns pigment different from Sages? Is it because Lincolns eye was inflammed before the pigment came in?


Probably.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Barb E said:


> Here's my take for what it's worth, probably less than $0.02 but you never know!
> 
> Only pigment leaking is most likely just simply that, pigment.
> 
> ...


 Thank you! I had not seen the other pictures malinois_16 posted. The ones I saw did not look too different from Sage which is why I was so confused that Lincoln had pannus but Sage was normal.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Lincoln also had gross goobery eyes that have since gotton a lot better since starting the Optimmune. 

LisaT- Should I have the vet do another tear test or do you think the one was okay?

sagelfin, Links eyes were fine till one day they got real read and inflammed etc. Was scarey to look at


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Yes Lisa, weird. I think it is occasional redness on top of leaky pigment. I will have to keep better track of it and think of what has changed to cause redness and when it goes away.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LisaT said:


> Pigment can leak, from the changes in the shape of the eye, from what I just learned from here: Eyes??? Color leaking into white? - GermanShepherdHome.net
> .


Thanks Lisa! Brandi - This was the link I was going to send you. There are pics of Jax's eyes in there. There is a Cornell Ophthalmologist coming to an agility event that I'll have check her eyes in a few weeks.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Sagelfn here are Rubys eyes. This pigment is normal. Sorry for the crummy pics my old girl was feeling cooperative today..


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I took some more pictures today. It does look like there is a bump or something. I am not sure if it is from surgery (I will have to check his vet records to find out which eye it was I can't remember :blush: ). I was thinking that they cut it out from the center of his eye. He did have a white spot at the center where the leaf was. They said it was a scar and when it healed it would disappear and it did.














































He got bored with pictures so I didn't get any good close ups of his right eye today.

I forgot about these from last week. You'll have to excuse his bitey face. I'm unable to zoom in on his eyes right now but still a pretty good view of them.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

sagefn, don't fool around with
your dogs eye health. the Vets
opinon is what you want.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

I say it looks like Rubys pigment which is normal. If you have to go in I would mention it but dont rush or anything unless you notice it getting worse.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> sagefn, don't fool around with
> your dogs eye health. the Vets
> opinon is what you want.


 Thanks? Maybe you should read the whole thread. He has been to the vet. If there are any changes to his eyes he will go back right away.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

miss that part. i hope you don't have to go
to the Vet again.



sagelfn said:


> Thanks? Maybe you should read the whole thread. He has been to the vet. If there are any changes to his eyes he will go back right away.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Looks like a normal dog eye to me. And it sounds like the vets who have seen him in the past months would agree.


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