# Bells, Beeps, Phones Inside & People Outside the Window



## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

I love my dog but I don't know what to do about her behavior.

Every bell she hears from a refrigerator to a phone inside she spends about 2 minutes running through the house going to each room and every window barking ferociously with her hackles up.

She does the same thing whenever anyone walks past my home, especially if they have a dog. And if you are a postman, UPS or FED EX delivery worker her wrath escalates up a few more levels lunging at the windows and jumping up and down pounding her front feet into the ground as she barks. 

As it is I cannot have visitors in the house unless she is not here or she is in her kennel. And when she is here in her kennel she is agitated and loud about it the whole time, therefore, I basically just don't have people over anymore to keep her happy. After all, it is her home too and I don't want her to be uncomfortable... but it is really inconvenient for me to adjust my lifestyle so much to fit her lifestyle all because I have NO control over her. I have had dogs before, I have head a German Shepherd before, but I have never never had a dog this dominant or aggressive or a dog I really have no control over as is the situation with her. 

She will and has bite someone before very badly (granted it was an intruder outside with a flashlight looking in my windows at 5 AM and she busted through a storm door to do it) and since than she has only ever been leashed or kenneled when I have visitors. But even before that she would bite at the heels, hands or pant seats of any visitors I had over so I was already accustomed to containing her, however, at that point I thought I would be able to train her out of it.

I now realize I can not train her out of going after people in the home or on the property although it would be great if I could. I have tried MANY trainers and methods and nothing I have tried makes the slightest difference. One trainer told me to sell her to a more suitable owner who could handle her better than I, which did not help me learn how to handle her. I am not going to sell my dog to anyone. But if I could at least for now find a way to get her to stop alerting to every bell, beep, sound and ring that goes off in the house and stop alerting to all outdoor activity that would be awesome. I work at home and I have many alerts from her throughout the day and I cannot seem to convince her that is really not exactly fully necessary...


Maybe someday I can find a trainer to help me with the other areas of aggression (such as any human in the home or on the property that isn't part of her family) but for right now I want to be able to find a way to manage the alerts. 

By the way on a leash outside either running or walking she is fine around other people. She shows no signs no aggression unless they approach her or try to touch her, than she will snap at them if she is provoked that way but when she is just walking by someone on the sidewalk she is not aggressive to other people unless she is provoked. 

Any suggestions about the beeps, bells, phones, and people outside alerts? 

I love my dog but I would like to be a better owner/trainer for her safety and mine and others!!! And honestly I have not had problems with other dogs before but she is not like any other dog I have ever known, and I have had trainers frustrated by the task of training her too so it is not just me who finds her challenging/hard to work with.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Oh sure, ask the easy questions LOL! Sorry, don't mean to make light of your situation. It's just that you say you've tried "many trainers and methods and nothing I have tried makes the slightest difference". And yet, with very little background info you're hoping someone online, without seeing the dog, will be able to help?

My guess is that you'll get a lot of advice telling you to find a trainer who specializes in aggression issues! 

But just for the sake of possibility, can you provide a bit more background. How long have you had this dog? How old is she? How much training has she gotten? On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate her obedience generally? What specific methods have you tried to curb this undesirable behavior (be detailed!)? What does a typical day for your dog entail? Training? Exercise? Work?


Generally speaking, it's very difficult to teach a dog not to do something, or to train a dog to not be how they are! The approach that I've seen work best is to teach the dog an alternative and incompatible behavior. In other words, address the "problem behavior" indirectly! And with many dogs, working types in particular, they need a way to channel their energy. It just isn't possible to suppress their drives and energy via training, but it often can be directed in a way that makes them happier and ultimately better companions.

Anyway, as I said before, it's nearly impossible for anyone online to make meaningful suggestions without more detail. So fill in some of the blanks by answering the questions above and maybe someone can spot holes and make general suggestions. If you tell us generally where you're located, maybe someone can help you find an experienced trainer that can help too...


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Hi Tim.
I am so sorry for not responding sooner. I am a new member and I have had technical difficulties getting into my account. 

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me. I'm not looking for a miracle but I am just looking for some suggestions perhaps or maybe I just hope some people might be able to shed some light on some things I haven't thought of, or suggest ways to try to approach her that I haven't tried before. Here is a response to the thoughtful questions you asked. I hope the information might be of help:
1) My dog is three and a half years old. I have had her for three years. Prior to me she lived with her breeder.
2) She has had sporadic training basically because I don't have a trainer in my area that I have found that can help us. I tried three different trainers in my area all real nice people and generally can help most people in my community who need training with their dogs. One of the trainers told me she was like an automatic weapon without a safety on and I needed to find a trainer who could help with aggression issues and he wasn't it. One of the trainers worked with me and my other two senior dogs (who unfortunately both passed away at the age of 11 and 13 within a year of each other) before I got Lux. That trainer she was great for us than (very heavy on the treat training). Not for Lux. Another trainer just basically wanted me to put her in a choke pretty much all the time and that was just pretty much it. It was really not a method I was comfortable with so although he was a really nice guy I didn't work with him for long.
I did try a trainer who was from out of my area who was extremely expensive to bring into town (which is an expense I would like to avoid, however, I was willing bear if it would help... however, it didn't help) who is a retired police woman and an expert on search and rescue. At the time my dog was two years old and that's the trainer who told me that she had some people in mind I could sell my dog to for police work and that she didn't really fit with me.
3) Her obedience generally is such that if I have her frisbee she will do anything I tell her and she will get it done yesterday. Other than that she's stubborn and obstinate. She's a great listener she listens intently to everything I tell her but she pretty much only does what I ask if she thinks it's a good idea. The problem is she intimidates me and she knows that. She's has bit me once pretty badly before a few months after I first got her and that's always made me nervous ever since so I never press anything with her beyond a point where she might seem to have a different opinion about it than me. So she pretty much gets her way and she's never bitten to me since. I know this doesn't sound good... but she's really really really a good dog... but she rules the roost and there's no question about and that's a major problem and I don't know how to get the tables to turn. She has protected my house from an intruder she alerted me to a fire that was starting when I accidentally left a pan on the stove she's incredibly intelligent and she really does watch out for all of us but she's so dominant and she's so protective and I have no control so it's not a good combination that way
4)She runs 4-6 miles in the mornings with me regularly (5 days a week give or take a day) and she walks 4 miles on the days we don't run. She walks in the evenings with my dad anywhere from 1 to 3 miles. She does the Frisbee Park (not a dog park just a huge grass area with a big hill that I call the Frisbee Park that my dad or I take her to) a couple times a week which is her all-time favorite thing to do in the ENTIRE world there's nothing better in the universe as far as she's concerned than the frisbee.
5) I'm in graduate school I don't have a huge budget to send her off for thousands of dollars of training. Besides I don't really want to send her off anywhere anyway. I would love to find a trainer near me to work with us that would be awesome. I have have looked and looked and looked but no one's really signing up around here to help me with her anymore. I'm hoping by going into an online forum I might just maybe find some insight or suggestions that somebody might have online that might help. 
I mean things really have gotten better over the past 3 years, it's not that she's better trained by me because she's not but now I know how to manage her better what leash to walk/run her on what collar to use so she's not going to break free from me, I know how to handle her to keep things safe. I know to tell people no they cannot pet her when they asked because I know she'll bite. I know I can't have people just walk in the front door and not think twice about it I know that I have to think way ahead of time and plan for if anyone's going to be in the house. But I don't know how to handle her so that she's not ruling my life and I also don't know how to handle it if anything goes out of the parameters I set up to keep things safe because things could probably go wrong pretty badly if that happened. It's not like in a bad situation I'm going to be able to have control over her in a bad situation she's going to control it. 
My biggest fear is that if she bites anyone again they're going to take her away from me and I don't want that to happen. So I try to do everything I can to keep her safe. She's never gets to run free unless she's at the Frisbee Park It's kind of a strict life for her and it would just be a lot easier if there was more understanding between us and I could trust her more and she could trust me more and there was better obedience from her so she can have more freedom and things could still be safe.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

We live in James City County Virginia


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

This does not sound unfixable but you need a trainer. A good one. It sounds to me like you have way more dog then you were prepared to deal with and living like you are is not fair to any of you.
If you post what area you are in someone should be able to recommend a trainer. I don't think a board and train is what you need because it sounds like you need lessons as much as she does.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Specific methods tried to curb the behavior as far as the behavior I posted about . I have tried recognizing her telling her she is good and than telling her to stop but she didn't seem to care either way about that. I have tried telling her just to stop it period tell her it's fine it's not a problem. I've tried putting her into a sit into a down into a stay it doesn't matter because it doesn't matter what I tell her because she's going to do her thing and then when it's done and its over and she's sure that the world is the way it should be then she'll listen to me or she will entertain me with whatever I tell her to do when she has the time and she's not busy doing her own thing like responding to the phone ringing or somebody walking by the house or etc etc.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

How is her basic obedience when she isn't distracted?


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Yeah I know it's not unfixable but that helps to hear that it does because it feels like it's unfixable sometimes and I know I need a trainer. The problem is I don't have one that's why I was going online hoping to get some ideas but maybe there's nothing someone can say specifically to help me that will help from online. I have been looking for a trainer since I got her.
Anyway thank you so much for taking the time to read my post!! And am sorry that my last post posted after you posted your post which meant I didn't respond to your post I didn't see that then that's why I'm responding now. I guess I'll see if anyone else replies and otherwise we'll just keep going and with the way things are and hoping that a trainer will somehow cross my path or maybe things will just get better.. I don't know. It's not like I'm not working on it, I'm still working on it so things could get better but we just don't really have a lot of guidance and you're right I have way more dog than I anticipated. My two dogs before her like a walk in the park ran with me off-leash no aggression they were nothing nothing like this. So it's a big learning curve for me here to.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Her basic obedience when she's not distracted is awesome spot on


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Here she is


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

yes I definitely need training with her so I can learn too. I just haven't found a trainer who can help teach me teach her. I have found some trainers with pretty questionable training techniques when it comes to aggressive dogs though so given that I'd rather just manage instead of training with bad techniques but I would really like to find a good trainer that can help me train her properly. That would be awesome because she's a really good dog and my relationship with her would be so much better if I had some say in the matter... And if I knew what to say.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Look up NILIF. She needs to learn respect and her place. I have found most things are manageable with obedience. 
I am a bit worried about the biting. She must learn that this is not acceptable. She would have gotten a most memorable correction for that with me.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

How does she react when you are holding the thing that rings or beeps i.e. Phone etc.Does she race around in a high state looking for something else to react at or does she recognize that you are holding the thing and curtails her behavior? I think this question is important as it will give more insight on her And you.

Along with the NILF, there are lots of excersizes and games that you and she can do that will teach her impulse control which would help and given her level of obedience when in a non reactive state, she will probably enjoy them.

I think your biggest hurdle is your fear of getting bit. I also think from your discription of how you read her body language, that ability will be a huge asset to you in building confidence in yourself to get past the fear and step it up appropriately.

I think that you need a trainer who can and will recognize specifically yours and her strengths and weaknesses.

I will offer this as a novice owner, I'm certain my guy is lower drive than your girl but he does have a hair trigger to certain things and way back, when in the red zone, had the potential to redirect on whoever interrupted. This is where the fear from the human can make it very difficult to help the dog gain control of herself. 

With my guy, for what ever reason, I got past,the fear and took on the mindset that as long as I was handling his out of,control behavior calmly, non emotionally, then if he chooses to blow me off and continue I won't back down. ****** (There is a way to let a dog know that you won't back down but it needs to be done in a way that wont provoke a fight and you need a trainer who knows how to do this)***. After the initial period of making him realize that conflict with me wasn't in his best interest, the relationship between us became stronger, a lot stronger. It doesn't mean that he doesn't ever go red zone at the window when he sees a dog, it just means that when I interrupt or give a command, he pays attention or I will make him pay attention. And I do it with body language, and commands, no collar.

This took a while for us and I learned the hard way by myself. What helped him a lot was the impulse control exercises, getting past my own startle reflex tendencies (that was a huge trigger that put mine in the red zone). NILF and letting him know that the space I choose to take up is a boundary that he is not allowed to trespass. This year he turns eight and is basically a good boy with decent house manners.

take everything thing I said with a grain of salt especially due to that fact that my guys temperament and relationship to me is not exactly the same as your girl and you but there may be bits that you can use to help her through this or stuff to think about.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Thanks Tim I will look into that.
The biting obviously bothers me too but it's too big of an obstacle for me to try to face right now. I feel like I need some smaller successes first manly the behavior in her house.
Can you clear some things up for me?
Is her behavior normal to all the sounds that she reacts to and her reaction to people outside? And why does she do that? What is she thinking (I think that's one of the hard things for me is I really don't understand where she's coming from or what she's thinking that makes her do that stuff like that and so because I don't understand I don't know how to react to it)? 
If it is a normal am I in the right and justified to try to change that behavior? If so how exactly am I supposed to respond to her when she starts going into her frenzy? How do I convince her that everything that happens throughout the day is not a 5 bell alarm which is a matter of life and death which kind of is kind the way she seems to take things.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Can I tell her to stop doing those things without insulting her or upsetting her or making her feel like she's not doing her job? And if so what's the best approach to use to try to get her to stop?


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

it seems like most things that I try to do to interfere escalates her behavior so I've learned to back off and just let her do her thing but I don't really want her doing it all the time. Once in awhile I can understand but it's all the time.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

First of all, I really admire you for keeping her this long and for trying the various trainers and changing your lifestyle for her!! 

She is a beautiful athletic dog. To be honest - she does sound a lot like the working/police dog personality...

I think the command you are "missing" is some kind of "Out" or "Stand Down" command? She is in a high state of arousal...and she has to be called off on command - just like a K9 or a Schutzhund dog. 
I have no idea what I'm talking about...but, I'm pretty sure it does not involve hot dogs...and I'm also pretty sure that physically dominating your dog and jerking her around is a bad idea and could get you bitten. I think you need a K9 or Schutzhund type trainer to teach you...how to call off your dog when in arousal (in their case, giving up chase or releasing a bite, and in your case, stop leaping at the windows and barking)

I have an "Easy" dog but he does bark/growl at front door or working men outside. But for him, simply going to the window and looking and saying, "It's OK" will shut him up. For visitors, if I greet them in a friendly way (body language such as physically shaking their hand or touching on shoulder works best), he relaxes. He accepts that "if my human says it's OK - then it's OK." So that's another aspect of your relationship...she needs to accept if that YOU, her human, say it's OK - then it's OK. 

I know this isn't much help! Except to say that I think you need people who deal with working dogs and can teach an intense dog to "stand down" on command. The techniques...what are the techniques...(i.e. does it start with playing tug and getting them to drop the tug on command?) Other people are lot more qualified than me to talk about this.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

if I try to get in her way when she's in that mode she'll bark at me or correct me until I back down so she can do her thing. The one time she bit me she had gotten loose for me and pulled the leash out of my hand and someone was approaching us that she thought was a threat and so I tried to grab her by the collar and she turned and bit my hand so that she could do what she wanted to do to get me out of her way. I was able to grab the leash instead so I did get her but that's the kind of situation I'm dealing with.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

After that I started using a metal collar with little teeth in it that she won't pull so hard to get the leash out of my hand on so that's never been a problem since


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Anyway I think that gives a pretty good overall picture of what the issues are that I'm trying to work with to fix. I'm sure there's a way to do it I just can't seem to find a way through the door to start making a difference in the way the relationship I have with her is organized.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

she's only 20 pounds lighter than me and she has bigger teeth so I'm not going to be able to address the issues through brute force so there's got to be some kind of an understanding between us other than through physical dominance because I'm not going to get that and I'm having a hard time figuring out how to create an understanding with her based on something other than that


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

I think the bottom line is that she's a really awesome dog and I knowshe definitely adores me and I really appreciate that but she doesn't respect me at all and she does not place her confidence in me what so ever and that's the part of owning her that I don't know how to change so that she will respect me and that she does have confidence in me and so that she will respond to me the way I hope for when I offer her some direction


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

I've never owned a dog who did not bond with me on that level before and that's what part of want I would love to be able to develop with her


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

I keep thinking it will happen naturally overbtime if I keep trying but it's just not really happening...


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Dear GSDchoice. Thank you so much for your post!! I only just saw it I'm so new at this forum I don't see messages come in as I'm writing I'm so sorry! I have to pay attention to that!
I think that's exactly what I'm missing it sounds like exactly what I'm missing the stand down or the off command that's it! 
There is a Schutzhund dog club about an hour away from me that meets every Saturday which I actually could make. I've always been afraid to get involved in that because I was afraid it would make her behavior worse and make her more aggressive if I actually focused on teaching her how to do that. But maybe she is going to be that way anyway and that would actually help teach me how to handle her better? I think I'm going to go down and visit the club and at least see what they do that's a really good idea. I can at least talk to the trainer down there and talk to him about what I'm afraid of and getting involved with the club and see what he has to say about her and me. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me and again sorry I was going on and on and on before I saw your message!!!!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

LuxMePerducet said:


> I think the bottom line is that she's a really awesome dog and I knowshe definitely adores me and I really appreciate that but she doesn't respect me at all and she does not place her confidence in me what so ever and that's the part of owning her that I don't know how to change so that she will respect me and that she does have confidence in me and so that she will respond to me the way I hope for when I offer her some direction


I screwed up one night and left my dog locked in the truck while I stepped out to check something. I got jumped and she watched unable to help. We went through a few months of over the top defensive behavior that I worked really hard to correct. Basically the dog that thought I was her world had lost any faith in my ability to make decisions, defend myself or lead. I MADE her fail at her job. 
It is possible for a dog to love you without respecting you. The two mean different things. 
I am troubled that you are using a prong collar and have not been taught how. That could also escalate aggression. 
And your dog has no right to correct you. That needs to stop!  @Jax08 needs to chime in here with her directory of trainers. This is not a problem to be fixed online. 

So yes, your dog can learn to alert and stop or not alert at all as you wish. But you need to do the work. Starting today. Don't pick a fight, but if she wants to eat she needs to sit and wait until you say ok. If she wants anything from you at all she needs to do something for it. It's a system called NILIF- nothing in life is free. It is a step to teaching her that everything she has, wants or needs comes from you and must be earned. 
If she comes at you walk away, but she still gets nothing. I don't believe you have the skill at this point to confront her. You need a trainer.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Dear Heart and Soul. Thank you so much for your response to! I am an idiot I thought I was just writing back to Tim I didn't see anyone else was here! I just read your post and getting these different perspectives is really helpful. Thank you so much!
So if I am holding the thing that sets her off she will race around the house in her frenzy state the first place she goes is to the front door than the windows. 

It sounds to me like the NILF is definitely something I need to look into by reading up on this technique along with perhaps visiting the Schutzhund club to speak with the trainer there in person and explore the option of bringing her down there weekly. 
I hope she's not too set in her ways by the age of 3 and 1/2 to make a difference. 
Yes I am afraid of getting bit it hurt me terribly and I'm probably never going to forget what that felt like so that is an issue for me. 
But honestly I'm already feeling a little encouraged by some of the ideas that I read here from your responses to me. Nobody is telling me that I don't belong owning my dog which is awesome and I'm seeing that there might be some people who think that there are ways to make it better for us which helps encourage me to take step again to look into it again a little more!
I would love to be able to get to that position that you're at with your guy where you can address an issue without provoking a fight. That would be really really great if I can graduate to that level of a relationship with her. I definitely will go down to the club. I can't do it this Saturday but I can do it next Saturday. Thank you so much for sharing some bits of information with me. I do think it does help to get me looking towards the right direction from here!!


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## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

UOTE=LuxMePerducet;9147217]she's only 20 pounds lighter than me and she has bigger teeth so I'm not going to be able to address the issues through brute force so there's got to be some kind of an understanding between us other than through physical dominance because I'm not going to get that and I'm having a hard time figuring out how to create an understanding with her based on something other than that[/QUOTE]


It's not about your size or weight-it's about your mind set above the neck....you say she intimidates you....your house is just that....."yours" not hers....you're concerned about hurting her feelings....you're putting a "human spin" and "human feelings" on your relationship with your dog....basically Stop It-quit thinking that way....whether or not some folks here like to hear it you've allowed your dog to become leader (Alpha )-in your own house....your dog does NOT respect you at all....I think this has already been mentioned by another member...Respect starts with obedience training and day by day boundaries that you must set with out worrying about hurting the dog's feelings...instead concentrate on gaining the dogs respect....BOTH of you will be much better off for it.


I also live in Virginia but I don't know of any trainers...you might try reaching out to Richmond Dog Obedience Club-if they're still around--they do group classes but years ago they used to have some trainers who would work one on one with owners and "problem dogs" or you might try contacting the AKC and see if they know of a trainer near you who can teach you how to train you dog...just be prepared to "own" this problem because it is yours and you've created it....you won't approve of all the methods a good trainer may use and/or try to teach you (at the stage your dog is at it won't be easy !!)....please don't loose sight of the "prize" at the end of your journey----a well trained dog that respects you...you and the dog will be much better off for it.


Many folks post up here with problems they've let go on waaaay to long with a dog who has done something the owner can't get the dog out of---ultimately if you're not willing to put in the time and effort (this may not end well) and the key here-----"Change your mind set"
IMO this is fixable but again... you'll need to put in the time and work....BTW one of the best trainers I've ever known probably weighed 115 lbs and she bred and trained GSDs and Rottweilers ..to her it was never about trainers size (she didn't mind telling someone that either)....but she always had the respect of the dog at the end of the leash and it showed every time


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sabis mom said:


> @Jax08 needs to chime in here with her directory of trainers. This is not a problem to be fixed online.
> .


I'm just over here drinking my coffee and working and minding my own business.

So, first, IPO clubs do not want out of control dogs that will randomly bite. You need a private trainer, who may be an IPO trainer. Still contact the club and see who they recommend in your area.

Your dog is going to get a heavy dose of obedience and corrections. Unfortunately, she has 3 1/2 years of behavior that needs corrections. Be prepared to buy a good e-collar and make her earn every little freedom she gets.

Richmond area? 

Marty Segretto is in the Leesburg area. World level competitor. 
Jacob Pope is in the Richmond Area. National level competitor. I've never seen him train so no idea what his methods are but know him.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Dog-Trainer/Pope-K9-Services-681877208613157/

Look on germanshepherddog.com and look for clubs in your area.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

LuxMePerducet said:


> Dear Heart and Soul. Thank you so much for your response to! I am an idiot I thought I was just writing back to Tim I didn't see anyone else was here! I just read your post and getting these different perspectives is really helpful. Thank you so much!
> So if I am holding the thing that sets her off she will race around the house in her frenzy state the first place she goes is to the front door than the windows.
> 
> It sounds to me like the NILF is definitely something I need to look into by reading up on this technique along with perhaps visiting the Schutzhund club to speak with the trainer there in person and explore the option of bringing her down there weekly.
> ...


I wanted to respond to this before heading out. There are a lot of invaluable things I have learned from the members here and from a no nonsense trainer. A lot! NILF, boundaries, training, owning the problem and willing to do what needs to be done. My guy did get hard but fair corrections, once I learned how, when what required hard corrections. I did get bitten once. Very de isive one about 4-5 yrs ago but it was complete and total handler error. I owned that one and it was a one time event. But as soon as it happened, I was more ashamed of myself than afraid of him because he backed off immediately and his eyes softened. It took the wind out of both of us. Listen to the folks here. There are things that because of our bond and the respect that we give each other allows me to do to him what he would not allow others to do. Your ability to read her is going to be a tool to help you.

The common household noises, you can probably start with a very low sound that doesn't trigger her while she's in a sit or down and then praise the heck out of her. She will probably get the gist. Up the noise just a tad and I mean just a tad. If it triggers and you are afraid, stop, don't do any more. Don't add conflict while afraid. Keep at the training,while searching for a trainer.

I Have an appt I have to get to, and nothing more to add that can help.but your in as good a place as,can be for on line advice and help.

Wish you luck with your girl.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Jax08

Oh my gosh thank you so much. That is so interesting, with all the researching and searching I have never come across a name like Jason Pope who is only one hour away from me. I will contact him. Marty Segretto is in the Leesburg area sounds great to but he is really far away from me. Thank you so much for the lead.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

@LuxMePerducet, I was tied up all day today with other issues, but I'm glad to see that you've gotten some suggestions for both your own handling of the dog, and for a couple good trainers!

I was also very relieved to read the statement below:



> The one time she bit me she had gotten loose for me and pulled the leash out of my hand and someone was approaching us that she thought was a threat and so I tried to grab her by the collar and she turned and bit my hand so that she could do what she wanted to do to get me out of her way.


That bite wasn't the dog's fault, nor does it sound at all like it was intentional. Your dog was in a heightened state due to the perceived threat of someone approaching. Lots of dogs will bite anything that even touches them in that state. Learn from it, grab the leash next time, and let it go!

It does sound like you have a dog you don't want to challenge or be confrontational with. But as Shane's dad mentioned, training - and even being insistent - doesn't require those things. Leadership's is really a state of mind, a perspective. You don't ask, you command (and ALWAYS follow through so the dog learns that commands are not optional!)! 

My dog is 2 yrs old and seldom barks at me, but frequently air snaps and growls a bit! I love the sass! Could that be what you're seeing with your dog? Some are much more vocal than others...

Anyway, my advice would be to set up some kind of daily obedience regimen with your dog, don't totally rely on a trainer to fix your issues because they won't. Training doesn't have to be really long, it can be integrated into play. She loves to play frisbee, make her do something before it gets thrown again, for example. Your relationship with this dog needs to be changed by you! Of course a good trainer can provide invaluable input and guidance. But in the end, if you want your dog to respect you you have to step up and be a leader worthy of respect in her eyes. 

Best of luck to you! Keep us posted on your progress!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

LuxMePerducet said:


> ...
> Can you clear some things up for me?
> 
> *Is her behavior normal to all the sounds that she reacts to and her reaction to people outside?
> ...


To the bolded portion of your question directly above, she obviously perceives these noises as a potential threat. Why is difficult to say. It could be that she heard a bell or phone when that intruder came around, or it could be that some other threatening situation coincided with a bell noise. Dog's make connections like that, so who knows! But it's neither necessary, nor productive to fully understand why to address the issue. 

IMHO your first goal should be to strengthen her obedience generally. Then you can work on these bigger issues. And the most often used method I've seen work on unnecessary reactivity is through desensitization, coupled with classical conditioning. But again, obedience comes first! If it were me I'd spend lots of time working with her on impulse control things, like waiting to go out a door until she is released, or having her wait to get a treat that's on the floor in front of her. Of course first she has to understand that when you say "stay" it means stay! 

In training, think of motivation. You say your dog minds beautifully when in the house without distractions and she loves the frisbee. I'd suggest incorporating some training into these frisbee games! Start by having her just sit before you throw the frisbee (every time!), then up the ante and have her down...etc., etc.

When my pup was young she LOVED to play with a Kong Wubba. So I would make her bring it, then drop it, then backup each time before I threw it for her again. It was fun and just a game, but I can now tell her to drop something off-leash from 50 ft away, and she does it immediately. A large part of training any dog is figuring out how to do so creatively, without causing conflict. Training is not domination, it's communication! 

And that's why I like to say that it's very difficult to train a dog not to do something; instead, train them incrementally to do what you want them to do. Don't think of training as getting a behavior OUT of them, you're goal should be to shape the behavior you WANT from them.

In my mind, corrections are justified only after the dog fully understands what you want and chooses to do something else. As Jax said though, trainers charge a lot of money so they typically move to corrections more quickly than you need to yourself just due to the time constraints - people want quick results! But they also have learned to read dogs much better than the average person through experience, so can successfully press a dog to progress more quickly without causing setbacks in their training.

So yes, by all means get a trainer to help you! But try imposing some little bits of structure into your play time with your dog and doing some fun impulse control types of things with her. You'll probably find that she enjoys them!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> As Jax said though, trainers charge a lot of money so they typically move to corrections more quickly than you need to yourself just due to the time constraints - people want quick results!


*That is absolutely NOT what I said.* At all. At no point did I say trainers charge a lot of money or move to corrections quickly. 

A good trainer moves with the dog's learning process. And a balanced trainer doesn't just correct the bejeesus out of the dog to show the owner how awesome they are.

What I said was, and I QUOTE...



> Your dog is going to get a heavy dose of obedience and corrections. *Unfortunately, she has 3 1/2 years of behavior that needs corrections.* Be prepared to buy a good e-collar and make her earn every little freedom she gets.


You will have to correct the behavior she has self rewarded for YEARS to shut it down while adding obedience. Obviously you do need the guidance of a trainer to teach you how to stop all this behavior. If you were able to do it on your own, you wouldn't have the issue now. 

Corrections for the behavior combined with obedience to recondition her response, is going to be the best method for her behavior with every little noise but you need to be vigilant and consistent. How the trainer you find chooses to do this will depend on their methods. You need to go watch the trainers and find out if you are on board with those methods before signing on with them.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> *That is absolutely NOT what I said.* At all. At no point did I say trainers charge a lot of money or move to corrections quickly.


Wow, both bolded and underlined! Sorry Jax, I wasn't, obviously, trying to quote you or misrepresent what you said! My point was that, yes, while a balanced trainer would very likely couple obedience with corrections, it is not the only way to go about it. And yes IMHO quick results is what people pay the big money for! 




Jax08 said:


> A good trainer moves with the dog's learning process. And a balanced trainer doesn't just correct the bejeesus out of the dog to show the owner how awesome they are.


Your first sentence is exactly what I said, and I quote:



> But they [trainers] also have learned to read dogs much better than the average person through experience, so can successfully press a dog to progress more quickly without causing setbacks in their training.


Your second sentence, not so much! But the truth is a good balanced trainer will use corrections that the average pet owner would never think of using, and typically much earlier in the process than a pet owner would or should on their own. My comments were aimed at explaining why that is IMO!



Jax08 said:


> What I said was, and I QUOTE...
> 
> You will have to correct the behavior she has self rewarded for YEARS to shut it down while adding obedience. Obviously you do need the guidance of a trainer to teach you how to stop all this behavior. If you were able to do it on your own, you wouldn't have the issue now.


On this we disagree. I personally prefer teaching desired behavior, as opposed to "shutting down" undesirable behavior! Could a good balanced trainer effectively correct this behavior using e or other corrective training tools? Sure! But shutting down or stifling a behavior via corrections, IME, is often less reliable in the long run, and especially for pet or novice owners, primarily because it requires strong consistent follow up by the owner, which often doesn't happen! 

I greatly prefer setting the situation up such that the dog changes her own mind, as I mentioned through desensitization and classical conditioning! Point is, there are other effective ways of achieving the same goal. 



Jax08 said:


> Corrections for the behavior combined with obedience to recondition her response, is going to be the best method for her behavior with every little noise but you need to be vigilant and consistent. How the trainer you find chooses to do this will depend on their methods. You need to go watch the trainers and find out if you are on board with those methods before signing on with them.


Again, we can agree to disagree! I think we all tend to advise people based on what we're familiar and comfortable with, but what makes this the *best* method?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't care what you said or that you disagree with me, especially since i doubt your actual experience based on the questions you ask. I do care that you twisted what I said into something not even resembling my statement. You do you. Just keep my name out it.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

I highly recommend my friend. Hes in your area and is a great trainer. 
https://family-dog-trainer.com/


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

One of mine is sensitive to phone noises of any kind. I know how it happened and I can’t stop it, so I minimize the effects. I keep the sounds off at home for everything but the doorbell and the phone ringer. No texting or messaging notifications at all. If my dog does hear something and starts reacting, I get up and we walk, either outside or into another room and that seems to help. Unfortunately, it’s a Pavlovian type response and when they fixate on a sound, it’s very difficult to teach them not to. How do you react when you hear a bell or ringer? If you jump or or get excited or shout to someone to answer the phone or the door, your dog will get excited too.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> I don't care what you said or that you disagree with me, especially since i doubt your actual experience based on the questions you ask. I do care that you twisted what I said into something not even resembling my statement. You do you. Just keep my name out it.


My first inclination was to sort of dispute your position on this as being overboard. But after calming down and rereading my post, you're right, poor choice of wording on my part. No offense, or mischaracterization of your post was intended! But I did word that poorly! My apologies Jax, and I sincerely mean that!

I do still think that your position that solving this issue "requires" corrections, or that your suggested path to resolve the problem behavior is the "best" method, are incorrect. But my choice of words was poor, so I'll leave it at that...


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Here's what good body language when interacting with a dog looks like. The girl, Samantha is 7 years old, I'm guessing the dog weighs more than Samantha. Good posture, confidence, a leadership frame of mind.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Ultimately this is, I think, what we all want to see! Young people getting not only involved, but taking that involvement to higher levels! What a command performance, by both the dog and her young handler! Awesome! Thanks for sharing that video!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Dunkirk said:


> Here's what good body language when interacting with a dog looks like. The girl, Samantha is 7 years old, I'm guessing the dog weighs more than Samantha. Good posture, confidence, a leadership frame of mind.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTZmIFdgU2M


This is the daughter of our USCA regional director. I believe she was coached by T. Floyd (world team member). T has a summer camp for kids every year.

https://www.germanshepherds.com/for...4547-youngest-competitor-wdc-2010-photos.html


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

There is another facet to the question of why she is reacting so frequently and may help you, op, understand a bit better. Biologically speaking, when a dog is pushed into a reactive state, i.e. Bells, beeps, fear, etc hormones are released causing the fight/flight. Once released, it takes approximately 72 hrs for the body to get back to a normal state.

There are many good concrete studies and a lot of research verifying this. If you google "dog aggression and cortisol" you can pick and choose what articles/studies you wish to read.

This info has helped me tweek where and when I bring my boy to walk, play etc especially when he has had a particularly stressful event.

I have done a ton of reading on this and I know that being mindful of it has helped me understand and make better decision for my boy.

Also, I picked up on one of your first few posts that when she was in the reactive state, you have tried calming her down and telling she is a good girl, maybe also patting her,(not positive about that) you may have inadvertently reinforced her reactivity through praise while she was doing what she does. Try not to do this. Humans see comforting when a human is upset by doing it. A dog sees it as a green light to continue.

Also, if you are asking her to look at you while she's in that reactive state (I don't know if you do but just a suggestion) and she refuses to do so, I wouldn't push it. My guy won't look at me until he has calmed down. I interpret his refusal as he doesn't want to look at me with angry eyes and has a hard time doing so. I wait until he has calmed down a bit and has gathered himself.


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

It's great to see young handlers getting involved, but do keep in mind that this young woman is working with what is likely a national-level type dog. I wouldn't put a young person, even a confident one, out with a dog who has shown pretty serious handler aggression and expect a miracle. Although absolutely confidence and state of mind make a huge difference when working with reactive dogs. 

I'm curious, OP, why you didn't take the help one trainer offered to rehome this dog to a working venue? It honestly seems to me like that would be a better fit for her and you. 

What happened after the serious bite to the person looking in your windows? Immediately after, and then with the authorities and follow up?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

***removed by moderator***
She trained with T. Floyd.
T Floyd, Master Trainer, Schutzhund Dog Training, Helper School, New Jersey South, New York City


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

And this
https://schutzhundphotography.wordpress.com/tag/pedro-jimenez/


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

LuxMePerducet said:


> if I try to get in her way when she's in that mode she'll bark at me or correct me until I back down so she can do her thing. The one time she bit me she had gotten loose for me and pulled the leash out of my hand and someone was approaching us that she thought was a threat and so I tried to grab her by the collar and she turned and bit my hand so that she could do what she wanted to do to get me out of her way. I was able to grab the leash instead so I did get her but that's the kind of situation I'm dealing with.


What you have to try an eliminate is the randomness of these things. You have to control the environment by doing things like not letting her see out front through the window. Gating off the access to the front door. Try using a bell as a cue for food. Ring-feed. Walks, playing, hiking, has to be with an attention to your surroundings to avoid surprises. Things have to be consistent and very repetitious to change these things, like Jax mentioned, that are self rewarding in one way or another. There are times you have to correct to interrupt and attempt to eliminate things. No other trained behavior will take over for you at this point. 

The two people recommended will be able to show you, and make it a lot clearer than reading about it. Keep this in mind though, as far as you getting bit. In that moment, you nervously rushing and grabbing gives her the idea you're attacking her. You're part of whats bothering her in that moment. You work on eliminating those moments by slowly introducing them like you would any other distraction. You have to control all that. I know this isn't real detailed, but see what one of those trainers says.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I started the whole sequence with mine by bell training. Then I had to remove the bell because it caused a different problem. It morphed to other sounds. Desensitizing needs to be done with an experienced trainer or it could create other unwanted behaviors.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Dear Saco

As far as what happened with the "intruder" it was a terrible situation. I will tell you the details since you asked.
It was 5 AM and dark outside I was up getting ready to go to work. I live with my father who (I thought) was still at the airport dropping off a friend, I knew he was leaving at 3 AM to do that. My two dogs are in their crates waiting to have breakfast (doors open they go in there on their own and wait). I walked through the living room (they were in the family room) and I saw someone outside shining a light in my windows. Now that was the strangest thing of all Lux never misses a thing so I have NO idea why she was not there in the living barking her head off at this guy. I panicked wasn't thinking straight (even thinking about it now my heart is pounding and my stomach is it awful knots like it is just happening now) I knew (or thought I knew my dad was gone) a ran to the front door I thought if I opened the door first I would scare them if they knew someone was awake and coming out. As far as I knew both my dogs were in there kennels they were not there when I opened the door. 
By the time I got to the door apparently the man was on my front porch because that's were he was when it all happened. Somehow from the time I had my hand on the door and had it opened before I opened the storm door from nowhere, and I never even heard her coming my Dog goes flying through the storm door (all I could see was shadows/silhouettes it was dark i did not turn the front light on) latches on to the mans crotch I hear him groan/cry out in pain as he doubles over she lets she lets go as he is backing off and as he walks away she immediately came right inside. It all happened so fast I did not even call her back in she did that on her own so its not like she kept pursuing him and kept on attacking him once he turned and started to leave. I am watching all of this in horror and I had no idea what was going on right from wrong or up from down. 
I leash her up and go out the side door I wanted to get out of the house. I didn't know if he was coming back and I am met in my driveway with two police officers guns pointing at me screaming at me to get back in my house and that they were going to shoot my dog if I didn't. 
Thank God my father was home (he was home the whole time!!) he came out at that point they whole thing was a blur. A fire truck showed up about 3 more police cars, the police chief showed up sirens going the whole thing was AWFUL. They were telling me they were taking my dog so I started getting upset my father told me to leave to go to work he was going to handle it he promised. I left I was so upset he basically told me I was only going to make matters worse for her if I stayed.
It was a police officer she bit. The officer was at the wrong home. Apparently she bite him pretty badly in his crotch and I am sorry about that. My neighbor was at the time 101 years old, he fell he has an alert system to call the police. That is the house the policeman was supposed to go to. I suppose that makes sense why he was looking in the windows with a light (?) looking for the man who fell? I have no clue. All I know is that is whatever he was doing he NEVER announced himself and I never expected a man outside my house at 5 AM looking in my windows with a flashlight to be a police officer. 
My friends father is a retired police and she said that that officer did so many things wrong on so many levels that she was almost sure I could not be held at fault. Still I was worried for a very long time about a lawsuit or that they would find a way to take her away from me. 
The whole thing makes me sick to think about even right now I am sick about it. They were telling me I was never going to see my dog again. The way it ended up is such that apparently all they could do or did do thankfully no more was to "quarantine her" for 10 days. The quarantine was done in my home and she could only go outside on a leash for ten days. In the beginning of the quarantine and the end of it someone from the health department had to come to the house and look at her. 
However apparently now that she has a bite on record if anything ever happens again from what I have been told they can take her away from me. That is why I am so afraid of not having control over her. I want to have control over her for her own protection so nothing will happen to her that will change her life and take her away from her family. 

Why did I not let my dog go to a different home when it was recommended? same reason. She is my dog, part of my family and I don't get rid of my family because I am having problems with them, I try to work it out and don't give up trying. I have been told that is one of my greatest strengthens and most dangerous weaknesses, but either way that is how I am wired and I am sure I am not the only one like that!

That happened almost a year ago now and this is the first time I have shared the story publicly because i was afraid of backlash if I did, but hopefully it is not a problem that I shared this publicly now. I am doing it in the spirit of trying to give people who are trying to help me an idea of who my dog is and what my issues are with her that I am trying to correct. Not to try to share a sensationalized story or to speak poorly of an officer in the police department in my community. It was a horrible to go through and I would not wish that on anyone. 

It actually feels like a relief to talk about to some people who might hopefully understand the whole thing and what happened better than I do as far was what I am dealing with when it comes to my dog.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

IMO, your dog absolutely nothing wrong in thst scenario. If that had been a criminal, the police would have been applauding her for doing her job. I would have fed her steak for dinner.

But, now that you know she has that in her, you need to learn to control it.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

LuvShepherds said:


> I started the whole sequence with mine by bell training. Then I had to remove the bell because it caused a different problem. It morphed to other sounds. Desensitizing needs to be done with an experienced trainer or it could create other unwanted behaviors.


I was thinking more along the lines of association so you could shape some things with it later, not really desensitizing. Some Russian egg head did a study or something, Lol.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> IMO, your dog absolutely nothing wrong in thst scenario. If that had been a criminal, the police would have been applauding her for doing her job. I would have fed her steak for dinner.
> 
> But, now that you know she has that in her, you need to learn to control it.


Yes that is what I have been told because next time I will be at fault since I now what she can do since she has already done it. That is really why I am looking for help so all goes well in the future. I have a call into a trainer now recommended to me from this thread so I am really really hoping that will pan out for her and me! And I am starting to get to the point where I might even be a little bit excited to try to train her with some good help and not only just looking how to do it out of fear. I mean after-all it could be fun too with the right person as long as we are also simultaneously getting help with the real deep seated issues at the same time. It could even be fun too right?! We could use a little fun around here in our relationship/partnership/bond or whatever it is best referred to, right now she is so serious about everything!!


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

General reminder... please do not share personal information of a minor who has no relation to you. Public videos are fine (and goodness she is a force!), but please be sensitive to the fact that she and her parents may not wish for any further personal information not in that video to be shared.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

It will be fun. You may have a little rough patch in the beginning, but she'll respond and you'll enjoy her.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of association so you could shape some things with it later, not really desensitizing. Some Russian egg head did a study or something, Lol.


That is what I did. When I saw a reaction coming we did heeling or went outside or did a Place or something else. Now, the typical reaction is to go somewhere and lie down. But it took a long time.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

GypsyGhost said:


> General reminder... please do not share personal information of a minor who has no relation to you. Public videos are fine (and goodness she is a force!), but please be sensitive to the fact that she and her parents may not wish for any further personal information not in that video to be shared.


It was a repost from another website but I contacted the site owner and had it removed. Thank you for the warning. I’m sure the original post was not intended to be harmful. It was posted by a trainer.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

LuxMePerducet said:


> ...
> And I am starting to get to the point where I might even be a little bit excited to try to train her with some good help and not only just looking how to do it out of fear. I mean after-all it could be fun too with the right person as long as we are also simultaneously getting help with the real deep seated issues at the same time. It could even be fun too right?! We could use a little fun around here in our relationship/partnership/bond or whatever it is best referred to, right now she is so serious about everything!!


Good for you! Training is fun! Dogs love it! I see lots of people get all serious and stern when they train, and then wonder why their dog doesn't like it. It's really not necessary 97% of the time, keep it upbeat, use lots of praise and treats or a favorite toy like the frisbee, and make a game of it! 

As you progress be sure to mix it up as well. Don't always train in the same location, for example, or work on commands in the same order. Dog's learn those patterns too well LOL, and make unexpected, yet totally logical, connections! Mix it up and they learn that they have to watch you closely for direction.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

OP-- respectfully, I really feel you need to change the way you think about your dog. Make a mental commitment to be her leader . I think she is out of her mind because she has no leader and she is frantically trying to manage everything on her own.

I hope so much you can find a good trainer who can teach you to be a good leader to this dog. I encourage you to try to be open minded about trying something new, even if it feels a little uncomfortable. She has her patterns and you have yours. I can't quote you because it's a long thread and I can't dig through and find them now but these statements about hurting her feelings or just knowing that you have no control and she is going to do ANYTHING she wants to do...that attitude has to change. Be willing to try new ways of dealing with her that might make you feel uncomfortable

DON'T pick a fight with your dog (I don't think you'd do that anyway) you don't need to be heavy handed or mean to get control of things, you just need better strategy, better skills, and most of all, mental preparedness to change. I hope you find a trainer who can instruct you how to do that and hope you are mentally ready to do that--be the leader. You and she both will be so much happier in the long run.

NILIF was a great suggestion and you could start trying to implement that.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

*Thank You For All Of This Input*



Thecowboysgirl said:


> OP-- respectfully, I really feel you need to change the way you think about your dog. Make a mental commitment to be her leader . I think she is out of her mind because she has no leader and she is frantically trying to manage everything on her own.
> 
> Thank you for your post Thecowboygirl
> There is no question in my mind I am not her leader and that is not for my lack of trying to hold that position. Just about all of the people who generously offered me their input in this long thread have only confirmed what I have known (I need help!) but which I had given up on finding because I couldn't find a trainer. Now, I think i have some really good leads for a trainer and I am following up on those leads unquestionably.
> ...


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

We had a really submissive Lab that could find her way to the furniture one way or another too. Think in terms of respect with her. You build respect by being consistent, firm, and fair in her mind. Consistent repetition of things, firm verbal or physical corrections with no emotion, and keeping everything in relation to what she's done. I've been told more then once don't punish a misdemeanor like its a felony.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

LuxMePerducet said:


> Thecowboysgirl said:
> 
> 
> > OP-- respectfully, I really feel you need to change the way you think about your dog. Make a mental commitment to be her leader . I think she is out of her mind because she has no leader and she is frantically trying to manage everything on her own.
> ...


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

You said "Every bell she hears from a refrigerator to a phone inside she spends about 2 minutes running through the house going to each room and every window barking ferociously with her hackles up."

This is what gave me the impression of frantic.

Who knows. Nobody knows through the internet. Even if she is super confident, she is a dog, and she still needs a leader. She is losing her mind over a phone beep or a kitchen noise. That's her best idea of how to live without a leader, and that makes me think she really needs one.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Do you feel like you have any relationship with this dog at all? One option here is to make every single good thing come from you. That means when you are not directly working with the dog, she is left in a sterile, boring environment (crate or kennel). This is a pretty extreme solution, but I've seen it work. 

This avoids conflict over sitting on the coach, pacing back and forth, etc because it eliminates that behavior. You invite her out of the crate (don't let her burst out on her own), and then work with her for five minutes, or take her on a run or frisbee play, and then when you get home, it is back in that boring sterile place.

It's a bit harsh, but this is one way to work with a dog who isn't interested in pleasing people a whole lot, because it makes it very clear that all good things are associated with you. 

This also works for sport training, and other types of dog training, but in general I don't like it because I don't believe in crating dogs for most of their lives. In this case, however, it might be worth a try for a couple weeks, and then ease back into the normal routine. 

But- I really do think you should do things like this under guidance of an experienced trainer. 

Unfortunately, this type of isolation work is often overused at some "board and train" type places where they need results fast. Pull a dog out of his house, put him in a kennel, and only take him out to work and he'll probably snap into line pretty quick. It can be used in a way that is actually long-term beneficial, and helps the dog learn permanent new behaviors, or it can be used in a way that looks really great on videos and for the owners when they come pick up the "rehabbed" dog in two weeks. 

My point is- done right it can help build a really solid long-term relationship, but done wrong, it will just be a bandaid.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Just wondering, when you saw her on the couch what happened. Do you tell her off? Does she do it or ignore you? Mine would have been down with a look. It's hard to fathom just laying there after seeing you come in. If she didn't get down what would you do?


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

ksotto333 said:


> Just wondering, when you saw her on the couch what happened. Do you tell her off? Does she do it or ignore you? Mine would have been down with a look. It's hard to fathom just laying there after seeing you come in. If she didn't get down what would you do?


This question led me to another which hasn't been touched on but is very important imho: LuxMePerducet, you indicated that you live with your dad so how is his relationship with Lux? Does she perceive him and respond to him the same way she does you? How does your dad handle her reactivity to those noises? Are you and your dad in agreement with which house rules need to be enforced? This last question is a big one because any rules that you decided to implement will need your dad on board, otherwise it really isn't fair to Lux that sometimes it will be ok to be on the couch and other times it won't be. 

That couch pic and your expectations are a little confusing. Are you expecting her to get off as a sign of submission to you as a leader, or are you expecting her to get off because it is a rule but has never been taught or enforced.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Re: pic of Lux on couch

I am a “soft” kind person, and not dominant at all! But here is where you and I differ...if she ignored me once, the next time she would be dragging her leash. I find her on couch, I say firmly “Off!” If she doesn’t listen, I pull her ( gently) off with leash. “good girl!” I say. Next time, I would hope she obeys me faster. She would be dragging that short house leash until she was a good girl in the house, and would get off on command. And if I see her eyeing that couch, I might go stand in front of it (body block, the way dogs do) or make a disapproving warning noise. 

It would never cross my mind that she is ‘boss’...it would never cross my mind to say “off” but then give up and walk away, letting her win. And I don’t feel that I am alpha or dominant...I don’t get any thrill out of commanding her...just that our rule is: sorry, no dogs on couch. 

Good luck working with a trainer!!

And the Daily NILIF and obedience will get you used to ‘ordering her around’ and being respected when you take the leadership role ?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Your female is 95 lbs????


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

*This is basically what I mean by she wants what she wants and gets what she wants regardless of my input or efforts to organize our relationship how I am trying to. Basically she is just not looking to me for guidance and instead she gives me the impression that she is all set in that department.* 

This. Until you change your mindset towards this dog, you are NOT going to accomplish what you seek. A well trained dog looks to its owner for guidance. A well trained dog RESPECTS its owner, and your dog obviously does not.

As has been said above, if I tell my dog not to get on the couch, and it disobeys, there are consequences. It will get off the couch either by me verbally telling it to, or, if that fails, physically removing it. (Yes, keeping a leash on this dog would be an excellent idea, since she's bitten you once already for grabbing her collar.)

You MUST take charge. Due to her bite history, this dog's life may be at stake if you don't. Worry about that: not about 'hurting her feelings'!

If my dog were barking at bells and whistles, I would tell it a firm 'NO!' every time it did so. If it didn't stop barking right away, the dog would be crated until it settled. NO EXCEPTIONS!! 

You must be firm and consistent in letting her know what the new rules are. It's going to take time, because she's been doing this for 3 years.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

*therefore, I basically just don't have people over anymore to keep her happy. After all, it is her home too and I don't want her to be uncomfortable... but it is really inconvenient for me to adjust my lifestyle so much to fit her lifestyle all because I have NO control over her.*

This is the statement that really blew my mind. As Brad Pattison (At The End of My Leash TV show) always used to say during his program: "The owner is the one paying the bills, so why is the DOG in charge?"

Dogs do NOT think the way people do. If a German shepherd doesn't trust its owner to make the right decisions, it WILL take charge, and take matters into its own paws. This is the main reason that you MUST take charge! If you don't I can guarantee it: someone will get bitten again, and you will lose your dog.

Most dogs are not natural alphas. They PREFER to let the owner take charge. They actually feel more secure when the owner is in charge. They heave a big sigh of relief, and think, "Whew. My owner FINALLY gets it! I can relax!"

This may well be the reason behind your dog obsessively barking at bells, whistles and people walking past the house. The dog is thinking, "I'm in charge here, so I have to let my owner know about these things!"

On a lighter note, I think your dog would make a GREAT Hearing Ear dog, since she's so alert to noises. :grin2: I'd be happy to have her, and train her to help me! (I'm very close to being totally deaf when I'm not wearing my cochlear implant.)


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## Colorado (Nov 25, 2007)

Sunsilver said:


> If my dog were barking at bells and whistles, I would tell it a firm 'NO!' every time it did so. If it didn't stop barking right away, the dog would be crated until it settled. NO EXCEPTIONS!!


I like everything else you said in your two responses so I feel bad singling this one part out. But the crate should never be a correction or a time out place. A crate should always be a place where only positive things happen. If the dog ever requires being in a crate for an extended period--say after a surgery--you want them thinking "This is not so bad." not "What do I keep doing wrong?" for months on end.

At this point the bell/whistle thing is going to need specific desensitization time and effort. There are many different ways to do that. The good news is that it sounds like Lux has some leads on professional trainers so hopefully they have techniques for that they like to use and have had success with.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Wow there is just tons of good advice and every single one of these posts in this thread. Thank you so much for taking the time time to enlighten me with these perspectives. They are encouraging to me. Reading through these posts is really helping in getting me some material with which to use in order for me to adjust my mindset towards Lux into one that is focused in a better direction. It's a start for us. This coupled with working with a professional trainer will hopefully produce a functional and healthy relationship between her and I.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

I can definitely see where over time I have just begun to accept defeat because my efforts have not been rewarded with the outcomes I was expecting and trying to seek. I reached a point of running out of material within me to work with her so I have resorted to just trying to manage the consequences of that as best as I could.
But as has been pointed out to me and which I really kind of have known (which is probably why I reached out) that's really just not a good solution. And I can't just give up there at that point. So it's time I start taking some of this good information and advice I have received and begin again to try to reinvest myself into my relationship with her and to try again to make a difference that will bring about a more reasonable safer less frantic (and sane) living situation and positive outcome. It can be done otherwise I wouldn't have so many people stepping up to say how to approach this or what to do. Thank you!!


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> Your female is 95 lbs????


Yes she is. She fluctuates between about 93 and 96 lb when I weigh her at the vet's office. She is a big girl. She is not overweight she's pretty lean but just big!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

@LuxMePerducet, I consider myself pretty soft. My dogs by most standards are spoiled beyond belief. I have moved heaven and earth for Shadow, who is currently curled up on the couch beside me. 
I can state plainly that any dog in my care who "corrected" me would have the biggest shock of it's life. There is no scenario where I would let that slide. 
I am in complete agreement that the way you view your dog needs a big change. It is simply not in either of your best interests for you to cater to this dog. But I am concerned that you will sabotage her training because I suspect that this dog is headed for a "Come to Jesus" chat with a trainer. I really hope you understand that dog with years to practice being ruler of her world may require somewhat harsher corrections then you are comfortable with. Sometimes they come around gently, but some dogs will actively fight a dethroning and I know very few working trainers who will stand down from a challenge like that.
You need to be less worried at this point about offending her and hurting her feelings and more concerned about saving her life, because the road this dog is heading down doesn't lead anywhere happy.


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## LuxMePerducet (Feb 11, 2019)

Okay so here it is:
The Plan: utilizing community support when needed, NILIF, working with a professional trainer, change my mind set
The Primary Goal/ Outcome Being Sought:
Owning a well-adjusted well-trained GSD who is trustworthy because I put the time effort and energy into the relationship with her by doing the right things to build that trust based on a correct foundation.
The Secondary Goal: Down the road be on the other side of this and be able to do for others what you all have done for me... know how to give sound advice on how to get on the other side of issues like this working with their GSD because I have had experience in being successful in having done so myself. That's my secondary goal (hopefully not too lofty) and the future I'll try my best to keep in my mind to see.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Its the nature of smart dogs to in some ways look to get away with things, or at least we can think of it that way. Don't be too surprised if the barking/whining at bells doesn't completely disappear no matter what you do. Thats probably in her temperament, and the best case may be that she still does it but responds to you and obeys you when you tell her quiet or whatever. 

Don't think you have to swing to the compete opposite of being permissive to a tyrant either. Consistent is the key. It'll be a balance of management, repetition, and being firm and fair with her. But be realistic about what her temperament allows.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Colorado, I look at the crate in this instance as a quiet place where the dog can calm down and stop barking. She's away from the stimulus that set the barking off in the first place.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Food for thought...... since I have heard numerous responses suggesting the use of a crate as an answer to this particular undesirable behavior........I might suggest that confining a dog...especially a GSD might exacerbate the problem at hand. Confining the dog when its wiring is screaming "investigate" the source might frustrate the dog to a higher degree. 



I'd rather have the dog tethered to me i.e. immediate control/correction and train in that environment that sets the dog off.....it's easy enough to duplicate many situations that sets a dog off plus it gives you the upper hand. If the default behavior you train means the dog goes to its crate or whatever....so be it....but just quarantining a dog to its crate might cause more frustration when theses events occur.....and nothing will be gained.




SuperG


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

I may be a wuss, but this isn't a dog I would tether to myself. If being in a kennel would frustrate her at least she couldn't redirect out of frustration on me. She redirected once on the OP, I would be nervous it could happen again. I'm sure the dog would realize that also and use it to her advantage. Kenneling in a quiet area with a kong or other distraction seems safer until she receives professional help.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

ksotto333 said:


> I may be a wuss, but this isn't a dog I would tether to myself. If being in a kennel would frustrate her at least she couldn't redirect out of frustration on me. She redirected once on the OP, I would be nervous it could happen again. I'm sure the dog would realize that also and use it to her advantage. Kenneling in a quiet area with a kong or other distraction seems safer until she receives professional help.





I won't disagree with your opinion regarding handler aggression......I'll only add that it all depends on the tenacity of the human involved.....if the dog owns you.....then your approach makes great sense.


FWIW....when a dog redirects with HA or maybe even a misdirected bite......a decision is instantly made, one way or another...... precedent is established.....hopefully the human regains the upper hand and wins the moment......if not....your suggestion is the way to go.




SuperG


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

LuxMePerducet, I just want to highlight, what I think are VERY important considerations for you moving forward. 

First, as another poster mentioned previously, you need to have a very serious conversation with your father to make sure you both fully understand and are on board with ANY AND ALL changes you're thinking about implementing in regards to your dog! Whatever you choose to do moving forward, to really change things you both will have to be consistent with whatever IT/THEY is/are!

Secondly, there's a good reason that the scientific method requires isolation of variables in a controlled environment! Without that control, it's impossible to know where the observed "effect" if any came from! Likewise with your dog, if you change too many elements of her daily life too quickly, (a) she's likely to adamantly disagree (which might damage your relationship further!), or (b) she's likely to be confused, and again it may damage you're already problematic situation! And finally, you won't be able to tell which change had the desired effect!

Baby steps is what I would look for, while you're finding a good trainer to help you! 

And that, and your safety, is why I suggested integrating some elements of obedience into your play time with her! It allows you to "impose" your will in a completely non-confrontational atmosphere, and it motivates her to comply because you have or are doing something she really likes!

I agree with the prediction that some level of correction will very likely be required to fully convince this dog, based solely on what you've described, to comply even when she doesn't want to - in the future. But whatever you do, don't try that or anything close to that on your own, please!

Best of luck to you and your dog! I think she sounds like a good one, and I think you've got this!


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