# Yet again, another encounter with that WGSD... This one not good.



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

To those that have been following the various encounters, I've had yet, another encounter with the WGSD that got Kira as a young pup.

This time, the story is much different than the previous one

Here's the other link to the previous encounter:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-face-face-white-gs-mauled-kira-3-mths-2.html

In that case, Kira was with me, and just turned and walked away.

Heres what happened:

I live on waterfront property. For about 5 miles on either side of me, there are 4 or 5 small state-owned parks, with trails and some even have dog runs.

Yesterday, my wife and I took a stroll on one of the nature trails. We had Kira ON LEASH, and were just enjoying some quality time together.

At one point, I strayed away to see what was over some hill, and my wife continued walking with Kira in a different direction.

A few minutes later, I hear my wife screaming, and Kira barking fiercely. I can hear the fear in her voice. I come running over the hill, and I see Kira in front of my wife lunging and barking at the WHITE GERMAN SHEPHERD! The WGSD had come running over, and started barking and was literally circling my wife and Kira. Hackles were up on both dogs. Kira was livid. My wife was frozen, and scared out of her wits. She did not know what to do, and was visibly shaken. I get to them, and get between everybody, when the owner finally comes running over.
The guy had a smile on his face!!!!

He grabbed his dog.

I won't get into what was said, but I need to do something about the fact that he's endangering the safety of my family, and my dog. We keep crossing paths in the same areas. If his dog is leashed, no problem..
This was NOT and off leash park. He was clearly breaking the law. 
I spoke to the local park police, and they told me, the police would have to catch him. All they could do, was summons him.... If they caught him.

Just sharing


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

well I am not sure where my reply just went...ugh...so I'll retype it again.

Carry a camera with you at all times. Try to photograph the dog AND the owner, or, even better, video it. You are on public property so you can do this. If your camera has a date stamp (not just in EXIF data) make sure that is on as well. Report the dog EVERY SINGLE TIME you have an encounter. That way if anything does happen (and of course I hope that it will not) you will have a record of each prior encounter. In my state, the general public is allowed a copy of the first page of each incident report. I'm not sure what it is in your state, but ASK. And if you have NOT made a formal complaint yet, do so, and make sure to mention the past incidents. Good luck.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I know others have had similar experiences. Can you contact them - maybe collectively go to the authorities? 

I agree with getting pictures. I would also check the laws and carry whatever is legal to protect yourself. At the very least the dog may thing twice if it gets a big face full of bear spray.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

remember too, that whatever you spray the dog with you will likely get a face full of as well (depending on what you use, spray vs foam, and how the wind is blowing). Not to deter you, because I do recommend protecting yourself! But just an FYI so you aren't taken by surprise if it does happen.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

Did you ask the officer what was legal to use in defense of your family and dog from an off leash aggressive dog who has previously injured your dog?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Conspiracy theory here....

I wonder if the owner is setting this up? Some like to see their dog fight, maybe he wants to see how well his would do in one. Considering Kira is still really a pup, I'm stretching that, but...

Until you have protection - mace, bear spray AND a bat-like stick, don't walk the trails. Your wife has to understand she may have to step in and use one instead of freezing up.

Get Kira back out today, not the trails, but socializing. I would try to avoid letting her get into the puppy play she has been doing recently for a few days until her hormone/adrenaline levels settle down.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

ShenzisMom said:


> Did you ask the officer what was legal to use in defense of your family and dog from an off leash aggressive dog who has previously injured your dog?


I did mention batting the dog down, and his response was that the owner needs to be dealt with, not the dog.



Twyla said:


> Conspiracy theory here....
> 
> I wonder if the owner is setting this up? Some like to see their dog fight, maybe he wants to see how well his would do in one. Considering Kira is still really a pup, I'm stretching that, but...
> 
> ...


Kira's fine. We ended up spending the rest of the day out with her.
About 2 hours later, we went to my daughter's girl scout meeting, and Kira sat, while all the girls petted her, and hugged her, etc...

Then about 7 pm, we met with her Golden friend, and they played for about half hour.

Kira's gotten very resilient. Not much rattles her these days. Unless you want to call her reaction rattling, of course. I'll dismiss her action as nothing more than feeding off my wife's fear and emotion. I don't get that reaction when I'm with her. I wish I could have videod what took place. It was weird. That dog was circling hacks up and barking as if he wanted to get to my wife, and not Kira. Kira was circling with it, as if to create a perimeter around my wife. 

If that dog wanted Kira, he could have gotten her.

Do I think it's a conspiracy? No, I don't. The area I live in has a high concentration of dogs, and park trails. It's very common to see the same dogs and owners throughout the area.

The irony of all this?...... After everything was said and done, we all walked away. We must have been a couple hundred feet away, and I turn and see his dog off the leash again.

The owner of this dog apparently has no regard whatsoever.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> I did mention batting the dog down, and his response was that the owner needs to be dealt with, not the dog.
> 
> The owner of this dog apparently has no regard whatsoever.



I would have nicely asked him to do his job and deal with the owner then I would start taking pictures and video anytime that you see this dog and owner out and about without a leash. The only way to protect your family/dog would be not to walk your dog ever again and that is not right nor fair


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## LaneyB (Feb 5, 2012)

Did the police at least talk to the guy to remind him of the leash law and the penalty if he is caught not following it?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Anthony8858 said:


> I did mention batting the dog down, and his response was that the owner needs to be dealt with, not the dog.


That is all good and well but if the dog actually does attack I would think you have every right to protect yourself, your wife, your dog.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> That is all good and well but if the dog actually does attack I would think you have every right to protect yourself, your wife, your dog.


One would think this, but I have a feeling that it would turn into a bigger mess if things were handled this way...The owner of the other dog seems to be pretty cocky, arrogant, and sure of himself....does he work in the county or somewhere where he thinks the rules don't apply to him or his dog? Seriously, who in there right mind would walk away and unleash the dog again within eye shot of dog that it just tried to attack? Nothing about the owner of this dog really makes sense


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my dog was attacked (nothing close to serious) by the
same CairnTerrier in the woods and in one of the areas of the woods
where people gather to let there dogs run around and swim. 
the owner of the Cairn and i exchanged phone numbers. when
we're headed to the woods or the play area in the woods
we call each so we don't have to encounter each other.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I'm not sure if you could find one in your area, but I'd carry a cattle paddle. It's hollow plastic, kind of a long oar shape and has a little rattle in it. If you hit a dog with it it wouldn't hurt but it would sure startle it and a raised paddle with the rattling noise would likely keep it at bay. Until and unless this guy gets cited you'll just have to protect yourselves and Kira.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> my dog was attacked (nothing close to serious) by the
> same CairnTerrier in the woods and in one of the areas of the woods
> where people gather to let there dogs run around and swim.
> the owner of the Cairn and i exchanged phone numbers. when
> ...



This is the ideal way to handle the situation


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Time for bear spray. Just in case. Maybe for use on the owner, too.


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

I would carry mace if I was you. It won't kill the dog and it is guaranteed to drive home the message. I have been forced to mace one dog, as has my father. In both cases the dogs immediately retreated, one ran back through it's doggy door.  This didn't stop the dogs from charging/attacking other people and their dogs, but soon as the dog caught our scent it would turn and flee. For us it was a permanent fix for the situation. Mace is a purely defensive weapon, thus if the man attempts to file a police report (I have no worries that you will) he would have to explain how his dog was maced in the first place.


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## guddu (Mar 14, 2012)

See what Leerburg.com recommends, he has been a police officer. basically, you should mace the dog or beat it with a stick in self defense ofcourse... Not in defense of your dog.


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

Oh no, not again. That owner is giving shepherds a bad name all over your neighborhood. Kira's reaction was fine-she was just protecting your wife. I guess that I would just make sure that you are the one walking her when you are on the trails. That way you can confront the white dog when he approaches and shoo him off.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

CeCe said:


> Oh no, not again. That owner is giving shepherds a bad name all over your neighborhood. Kira's reaction was fine-she was just protecting your wife. I guess that I would just make sure that you are the one walking her when you are on the trails. That way you can confront the white dog when he approaches and shoo him off.


I don't think Kira is old enough to be protecting someone, if I remember right she's still pretty young. 

I do think that until the situation is handled with the other dog owner your wife probably shouldn't be the one on the other end of the leash. Screaming goes right down the leash and probably doesn't help matters. (not that I blame your wife, I'm sure it was pretty scary.)


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I don't think Kira is old enough to be protecting someone, if I remember right she's still pretty young.
> 
> _I do think that until the situation is handled with the other dog owner your wife probably shouldn't be the one on the other end of the leash._ Screaming goes right down the leash and probably doesn't help matters. (not that I blame your wife, I'm sure it was pretty scary.)


That doesn't seem like a really appropriate thing to say. I don't think it really matters who has the leash if an aggressive, off leash dog is going after Kira. And screaming can sometimes be a good deterrent, so I wouldn't say she was completely wrong there either.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

really, so what do you do to protect your dog?



guddu said:


> See what Leerburg.com recommends, he has been a police officer.
> 
> >>>> basically, you should mace the dog or beat it with a stick in self defense ofcourse... Not in defense of your dog.<<<<


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I don't think Kira is old enough to be protecting someone, if I remember right she's still pretty young.
> 
> I do think that until the situation is handled with the other dog owner your wife probably shouldn't be the one on the other end of the leash. Screaming goes right down the leash and probably doesn't help matters. (not that I blame your wife, I'm sure it was pretty scary.)


Kira is just 10 months.

And I agree, I don't think Kira was protecting anyone. I DO believe that it was nothing more than an elevated level of excitement, and if the WGSD wanted to bite, he would have. I do think that maybe Kira's body language was a deterrent in some way, and my wife's fear played a role somehow in elevating Kira's temperament.
My wife was terrified.

My wife doesn't really walk alone with Kira. Don't forget, I was with her, but drifted away for a few minutes.

Maybe getting together with this guy and his dog for a walk isn't a bad idea.

I'd like to see how he reacts if we're both walking together on leash.
**


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Sad to say but, drifting away isn't an option if WGSD is still a potential threat. The owner is apparently a selfish idiot and doesn't care about your or your wife's safety. The dog's hackles could have been up for any number of reasons. I think you should call to police and/or the animal control and report the situation now and every time it occurs so that they can get a concept of the level of the problem he is causing. Your wife isn't safe to go walking in her own neighborhood. If the cops won't respond to that maybe a letter to the newspaper is in order.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> Sad to say but, drifting away isn't an option if WGSD is still a potential threat. The owner is apparently a selfish idiot and doesn't care about your or your wife's safety. The dog's hackles could have been up for any number of reasons. I think you should call to police and/or the animal control and report the situation now and every time it occurs so that they can get a concept of the level of the problem he is causing. Your wife isn't safe to go walking in her own neighborhood. If the cops won't respond to that maybe a letter to the newspaper is in order.


I spoke to the local park police. I described him, and gave a clear description of a white GSD. (can't go wrong with that one)
The PO said he'd keep an eye out for him, and have a conversation if he sees him.
My wife won't go to the local park without me. As I mentioned, we have a few parks within 5 miles of my home, so it's a luck of the draw to bump into them.

I can honestly say that I fear my dog's safety. It's no secret that my dog is soft, and I don't doubt that that dog would cause serious harm to Kira. I'll take advice about taking certain precautions. I can't blame the dog. It's a beautiful animal, and I feel that dogs are 99.9% of what the humans make of them.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i would like to see how the dogs react if you're both
walking leashed.



Anthony8858 said:


> Kira is just 10 months.
> 
> And I agree, I don't think Kira was protecting anyone. I DO believe that it was nothing more than an elevated level of excitement, and if the WGSD wanted to bite, he would have. I do think that maybe Kira's body language was a deterrent in some way, and my wife's fear played a role somehow in elevating Kira's temperament.
> My wife was terrified.
> ...


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i would like to see how the dogs react if you're both
> walking leashed.


I gave that some thought. I was thinking about maybe keeping an eye out for the guy, and approaching him about walking with the dogs for a while. I'd like to see how they walk together too.


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## kam214 (Mar 3, 2012)

Mace and pepper spray do not usually work on truly aggressive dogs...doesn't work on crazy, strung out, doped out people either.

What I have seen, more often than not that the SOUND of a Taser cycling, NOT actually discharging the probes, works VERY well to startle the crap out of aggressive dogs. Sends them scurrying a bit, tail between legs. Not to say it is 100% effective on every dog because I am sure it's not, but I've seen it work. Just another idea for you. Heck, if the dog actually attacked, using the taser on it WITH the darts/probes would definitely stop the fight. However, after the electrical cycle stops, the dog, just like a person can jump right back up and continue to fight...

Civilian models are available:

http://www.taser.com/products/self-defense-products/taser-c2


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

That's crazy how this keeps happening to you Anthony. The owner seems kind of cocky letting his dog out again and again after so many incidents. Is this guy one of your neighbors then? Just from you description, I imagine he's only a few houses down the road. I might have missed it but what was your response to him when he grabbed hold of his dog? and what was his response? Just from the sound of things, I'm not even sure if this guy would allow you to walk along his dog.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

To me, it sounds as though he actually enjoys scaring the crap out of people with his dog.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> To me, it sounds as though he actually enjoys scaring the crap out of people with his dog.


I wondered the same thing. 

Yesterday, we walked past a local dog run. As we were walking, a Yellow Lab, runs over to the fence and was barking ferociously at a passerby and his dog. The guy stopped to see what the ruckus was about, and the owner of the lab was sitting there with the proudest look on his face. His dog was salivating as it barked. Too many people identify with their dogs.
They want their dogs to be the tough guy that they're not.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

GSDkid said:


> That's crazy how this keeps happening to you Anthony. The owner seems kind of cocky letting his dog out again and again after so many incidents. Is this guy one of your neighbors then? Just from you description, I imagine he's only a few houses down the road. I might have missed it but what was your response to him when he grabbed hold of his dog? and what was his response? Just from the sound of things, I'm not even sure if this guy would allow you to walk along his dog.


The guy live somewhere in the neighborhood. It's a fairly small concentration of homes in my area, so I'm sure he's within a couple miles at most.

My wife was with me, and the first thing she whispered to me, was to leave him alone. I was hot under the collar, but respected her wishes. 
I've been a martial artist for many years, and I could probably get myself into trouble if I lose my cool.
It's not worth it.

I mentioned that he should always keep his dog on his leash. He looked at me and just smiled, and took his dog away. I actually wondered if the guy has a hearing disability or something, because he said nothing whatsoever.
Either that, or he simply has no respect.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Anthony8858 said:


> I did mention batting the dog down, and his response was that the owner needs to be dealt with, not the dog.


soooo...was the officer telling you to "bat" the owner down? 

Personally, I would start carrying something to spray. That is a large, unfriendly, dog and you have the right to defend yourself and yours. To bad you couldn't find something skunky smelling that the owner would have to live with for a few days as a reminder to carry a leash that is attached to his dog.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Anthony8858 said:


> He looked at me and just smiled, and took his dog away. I actually wondered if the guy has a hearing disability or something, because he said nothing whatsoever.
> Either that, or he simply has no respect.


Creepy. Very creepy.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Creepy. Very creepy.


Not sure if you know the history.....

When Kira was 3.5 months, this same WGSD came out of nowhere, and pinned Kira. The dog grabbed Kira by her throat and shook her violently. Kira got away, and the dog chased and grabbed her a second time. I finally grabbed my pup, and the owner ran over, took his dog, and never SAID A WORD!!

Looking back, I'm seriously wondering if he's able to speak.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Spray the other dog in the face with pepper spray. It's that simple.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Spray the other dog in the face with pepper spray. It's that simple.



Seems to be the way to go.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Anthony8858 said:


> Seems to be the way to go.


 Here ya go, Anthony.

Leerburg | Bear Spray


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks for the link.

I think it's a good idea.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Forget the bear spray! I say you feed him to a bear and retrain the dog 
-dun dun chhhh-  Failed joke.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Forget the bear spray! I say you feed him to a bear and retrain the dog
> -dun dun chhhh-  Failed joke.


Haha... I agree.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Forget the bear spray! I say you feed him to a bear and retrain the dog
> -dun dun chhhh-  Failed joke.


Oh Yeah! Although Im sure the bear will get indigestion. Sorry Smoky!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Oh Yeah! Although Im sure the bear will get indigestion. Sorry Smoky!


Yeah. Poor bear would get the runs.  Too much organ meat...


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## Brisco1983 (Feb 28, 2012)

Where I am from that dog would have got sprayed in the face with a 45ACP!


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Oh Yeah! Although Im sure the bear will get indigestion. Sorry Smoky!


 Bahaha I'm sure Smokey would be alright making that sacrifice!  At least in this situation!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I recommend a 26" collapsible asp. They will stop a dog right now.
Check your local laws to be sure that they are legal in your state before you buy one.

ASP 26 Inch Tactical Baton


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## cmscott (Jun 29, 2011)

Whenever I am out with Otto I carry the Planet Dog wooden tennis ball thrower. It has enough heft that it would certainly get any dogs attention if you broke it over their snout, but it has a double use in that I can also actually throw a tennis ball with it. I like it because it doesn't put people off when I carry it around but it could still get the job done if necessary.

I think you should smack the sh** out of that dog if he ever comes over to you again. 

§ 911. Injuring or killing dogs for certain acts.

(a) Any police officer, animal control constable or dog warden who finds a dog running at large and deems such dog to be an immediate threat to the public health and welfare may kill such dog.

(b) Any person may injure or kill a dog in self-defense or to protect livestock, poultry or another human being at the time such dog is attacking such livestock, poultry or human being.

(c) Any person may injure or kill a dog at the time such dog is wounding another dog if the dog being wounded is on the property of its owner or under the immediate control of its owner and being wounded by a dog that is running at large.

(d) Any person who injures or kills any dog in accordance with this section shall not be held criminally or civilly liable therefor.

^^Check your local laws to see what sort of latitude you have in dealing with this situation. Above is the law in Delaware on situations such as yours. I don't advocate hurting any animals, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I also don't advocate being passive when there is a serious threat to your dogs safety (not to mention your wife's).

But good luck with that, hopefully you never need to do anything.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

David Winners said:


> I recommend a 26" collapsible asp. They will stop a dog right now.
> Check your local laws to be sure that they are legal in your state before you buy one.
> 
> ASP 26 Inch Tactical Baton


 
I already have one of these, along with the waist holder.
Good idea.


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