# american? or German? ahhhhh!!!



## shaddai1 (Jan 24, 2007)

Hello- I need some help. I have a female working line shepherd I think. 
I would love for someone to take a look at her parents pedigrees and tell me what you think. 

http://www.zehfussdogtraining.com/images/pedigrees/germanshepherd-male.pdf

and 

http://www.zehfussdogtraining.com/images/pedigrees/germanshepherd-female.pdf

Here is the my breeder/trainer site. 

http://www.zehfussdogtraining.com

Sofie, my female, is the most brilliant,loving (in her own way), focused, intense dog I have ever owned. We have so much fun. She loves showing off. She's defiant and bossy at times. She is a natural born tracker and loves to work. I really enjoy doing things with her. When we are at the dog park, she has absolutely NO interest in any other dog or person. She just wants me to throw the frisbee and bring it back to me- she really would do that until she dropped. I have to stop and make her take a break!! 

I want another male gsd and have some options and here is where I am not sure. I keep bouncing back and forth. 

My breeder has a little due in 3 1/2 weeks. He said that I would for sure have a male out of the litter. 

The other breeder. Keystonegermanshepherds.com has what they call Heidelberg shepherds. I went to see them yesterday and was intrigued by their overall balanced temperament. seemed confident and interested in me. Unlike sofie who is not interested in anyone but me, really. 

However, they have longer hair (plush?) they have a long haired gsd in their breeding stock,and can weigh over 100lb's. There might be a possibility that I would even get a long coated gsd, which I am not partial too. He said that if the dogs live indoors most of the year they coat would be slightly different due to how it comes in. 

I asked him about drive and such and he said that he would have to match the dog to the prospective owner. Understandable. 

and one more. 

windridgek9.com has some great looking dogs I have seen one of the males at camp bow wow and he is handsome, lovable-showering me with kisses (sofie isn't into licking). The dogs here are much more expensive for what I am wanting $1500.00, if I wanted to show etc.. I could understand. but am willing to pay for the right dog. 

Anyhow- what are your opinions on sofie's pedigree. and the other two options. 

Thank you, thank you for any feedback. 

Ashley H


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## shaddai1 (Jan 24, 2007)

sorry bout the spelling.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

The pedigrees of the dogs you posted are German show line, not working line. 

Don't know if that helps you get a better idea of what type of GSD to look for in your next one or not.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Two subjects come to mind...well maybe more even !









For $1500 you pretty much can get a pup from a reputable breeder who BREEDS TO THE STANDARD for correct GSDS. You are describing oversized, coated dogs who do not meet ANY organization's standard for the breed.









There is no such thing as "HEIDLEBURG" Shepherds - except in the minds of this breeder...... someone's kennel name at one time according to the site. 

The pedigrees you posted are regular pink SV papers of showline dogs. 

Lance of FranJo was NOT a German import.







He was a grandson of imports, not an import. He was so heavily linebred upon by people, there are still ill effects of the practice.









The WUSV did NOT restrict exports from Germany because someone exported Lance to the US and lost such a great animal.























Sure this breeder's name is not Heinlein, Tolkein or Asimov???? 

Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

NOTE TO ALL

I am not commenting at all about the actual dogs on this site. My comments are on the misinformation, and manipulation of history to market puppies that are similar to many many other breeders stock to make them appear to be some "rare" type or strain of dog. I am sure that if you like the pup, it will make a fine pet...it is the PR aspect I find both appalling and hilarious.

Lee


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I wouldn't take a pup from either breeder if it was free. 

Besides what has already been said, those "Heidleberg" dogs are obviously American show line dogs. (Which would be even more obvious if they would post their pedigrees.) With as many "untruths" as they have on their site, I wonder what else they either have no clue about, or just flat out lie about.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I meant the pup from the 2 pink papered dogs BTW...not the sci fi writer one...

Lee


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Windridge appears to use "coats" as breeding stock.

Does the other breeder use them too? (They have none shown on their site.)


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: WolfstraumI meant the pup from the 2 pink papered dogs BTW...not the sci fi writer one...
> 
> Lee


























People must thing everyone is an IDIOT. Otherwise they wouldn't post "Sci Fi" stories as the truth!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

'Heidelberg Shepherds are extremely loving and sweet with your family, friends, acquaintances, and especially children.'

Heidelberg = nice doggie. I thought the standard uses the word 'ALOOF'. The odd outgoing, friendly to all GSD exists but it just seems WRONG to claim that all their dogs are this way or that they should try to make them that way. And that is definitely an american showline look (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not an 'old german' look)


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarina'Heidelberg Shepherds are extremely loving and sweet with your family, friends, acquaintances, and especially children.'
> 
> Heidelberg = nice doggie. I thought the standard uses the word 'ALOOF'. The odd outgoing, friendly to all GSD exists but it just seems WRONG to claim that all their dogs are this way or that they should try to make them that way. And that is definitely an american showline look (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not an 'old german' look)


I agree. These are "supposed" to be German Shepherds, not Labs or Goldens. And just like the dogs "looks" should reflect that, so should their temperament.


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## shaddai1 (Jan 24, 2007)

Thank you all for the info. 

I just got off the phone with the breeder of my female. The daughter of the two pink papered dogs. We talked about the fact that although sofie is great and we do alot of fun things together. I am not sure if I could handle or have time for another sofie. He said that when the pups are ready to be tested he would pick the best male for me. I did tell him that I still want a motivated, driven dog though.

I am going to go this route. I am familiar with the dogs out of his breeding program and am comfortable with a highly motivated, driven dog. 


**** None of the dogs are free****

the windridge dogs are just the most expensive out of the three.

Thanks again.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Glad to hear you are going with what you already know. Good luck with your new boy.

(I realize none are free. I was just saying that even if they WERE free I wouldn't take one. I would rather pay for one from someone else, that take one for free from the 2 breeders posted.)


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## shaddai1 (Jan 24, 2007)

The whole researching breeders, dogs, different lines of shepherds is overwhelming. There is just so many different opinions out there. 

Thanks again


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I think we all read your original post a little fast....what I meant to express was that if your dog was from the same lines/breeder as the SV pink papered dogs, that is what looked the most desireable of the lot...I bet the other poster was looking at the 2nd and 3rd breeders as well - not the one you got Sofie from who has the pups coming from the showline imports...

I think faster than I read or type some days...!!!

Good luck wiht your new boy. Looking forward to his photos!

Lee


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Wolfstraum....I bet the other poster was looking at the 2nd and 3rd breeders as well - not the one you got Sofie from who has the pups coming from the showline imports...
> 
> Lee


If you are talking about me, I WAS talking about the 2 "other" breeders. NOT the one the OP has already dealt with.


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## shaddai1 (Jan 24, 2007)

Thank you Wolfstraum. 

I knew this was the right decision when I started looking but thought that I would just..look around... and ended up getting confused and overwhelmed with all the info. Thank gosh there are people out there who DO know what they are talking about


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

LOL even if it comes out a bit garbled and nonsensical done on the fly LOL LOL LOL

Lee


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I looked at some of the males' pedigrees on the last site she mentioned, 'wind'somethingorother. and they look like good German showline dogs. But I have a question: she lists "OFA good" and then "DNA." My question is the "DNA" listed like a badge of honor. Is it no longer true that if you have more than three litters out of one dog in a year, or more than seven litters out of a dog, you must have them DNA'd? 

I am not so sure about the coats thing. I had an AKC judge tell me that she puts up dogs with coats. I have breeders tell me that they sometimes have the best conformation. But they are talking hairy, ear fuzzy, feathery legged, long-bellied-looks-like-a-collie coats, not just plush German showline coats that I have seen referred to here as coats.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

Long coats are not disqualified in the AKC ring, it is heavily penalized but is not a DQ. If the coat is the best that day and most closely matches the standard than yeah, give it the points.

Cherri


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think the keystone german shepherds people might want to consult with a lawyer on their "temperament" page. They're practically guaranteeing that their dogs will protect your kids from strangers, keep them out of the pool, save them in the event of a fire, and defend you from ninja burglers. Knowing how people are, I could easily see some idiot leaving their kids at home with their keystone shepherd as a babysitter and then suing the breeder when the kids hurt themselves.


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