# Limited versus Full - why does it matter?



## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

*Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*

(Bet you thought this was going to be a repeat post, but it's not!







)

I noticed on another forum that there is a GSD breeder that sells all of her puppies on Limited Reg. with the AKC (great idea). The stipulations for lifting the limited and making it Full Registration are as follows:

Breeder will pay for "upgrade" from Limited to Full .....

1. Dog receives passing OFA and at least TT/CGC. (Yes, I know there is disagreement there, but that's not the point of this post)

OR

2. Dog is spayed/neutered.

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I thought the only difference in Limited and Full is that with Full the dog's offspring can be registered AKC, and the dog can be shown in conformation events; however, a dog CAN'T be shown in AKC conformation events if it's spayed or neutered. So....what would be the point in the breeder lifting the Limited Reg. to Full Reg. if it doesn't matter with case #2? 

Since the breeder is paying for the "upgrade," isn't it a waste of money?


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*

some people want full no matter what. I haven't sold any on full in a long time now. They are all limited.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*

I have full on a spayed dog but I got her directly from the breeder as an adult (so since the breeder bred her and raised her, she registered her own dog as full and transferred it to me, the dog was spayed at age three a few months before I got her).

Shel, I agree, I don't see why anyone would really need full on an altered dog...


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*

The problem is, you can't sell on limited if you want the animal shown in conformation...they have to have full registration.

I want to sell all my puppies on limited, but that's really not possible since I want some of them out in the show ring


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*

In Canada our system is a bit different, we only have Full or Co-Owned Registration.
Dog breeder has to provide the new owner registration certificate within six months of the date of sale. 
It is the seller's responsibility to uphold Federal law ($50,000 fine), for not Registering!!!
But the CKC also has a Non-Breeding Agreement document that 
must be completed and submitted with the Application for Transfer of Ownership.
That can be Canceled by having all parties involved in the original Non-Breeding Agreement complete,
sign and submit a Cancellation of Non-Breeding Agreement form.


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## northwoodsGSD (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*

Shel,
I am assuming(correct me if I'm wrong) that you are talking about me.

Yes I do sell all my pups with limited reg. Even though I do thoroughly screen all possible buyers, I feel this helps protect both the dog & myself from unethical owners/breeding(as much as one can). Plus I like knowing the results(health screening, ect.) of all my pups. It helps determine the quality of the breeding.

Even though I state I will upgrade the reg. on an altered dog, I have never had to at this point. I don't sell to many "pet" type homes where the dog would be altered & not "worked".

Jackie, you raise a good point there.
Although I don't have showline GSD. I might consider selling a pup with either a co-ownership or full reg. in the right situation. I have never had anyone complain about getting limited reg. or ask for full reg. though.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*

The limited registration/AKC conformation showing thing definitely presents a dilemma. It's not one we've really encountered yet, as not too many people with working lines have much interest in AKC conformation showing, and vice versa. But I can see it really being tricky for folks who are breeding for AKC conformation but also want to do whatever they can to help protect the dogs and bloodlines. IMO, AKC should either allow limited dogs to show, or get rid of the limited/full and institute something more along the lines of what the Canadian Kennel Club has, where registration is the same but different contracts determine breeding rights.

Another reason to offer the upgrade from limited to full on spayed/neutered dogs is if the owner wants to register the dog with another registry in order to compete in their events. Example is UKC. The UKC offers a ton of performance events in addition to conformation, and UKC registration is required for participation.

If a dog has AKC full registration, getting UKC registration is a piece of cake and the turn around is very quick. But if the dog has AKC limited registration, getting the UKC registration can be a pain in the butt and take several weeks to accomplish. It can be done, but in addition to copies of AKC papers, pedigree, etc.. the owner also has to send in a bunch of photos and jump through a bunch of hoops in order to obtain the UKC registration. So if the dog was already spayed/neutered, it'd be quicker and easier to upgrade the AKC to full and then apply for UKC registration than to try to get UKC registration with AKC limited registration.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*



> Originally Posted By: Chris Wild
> Another reason to offer the upgrade from limited to full on spayed/neutered dogs is if the owner wants to register the dog with another registry in order to compete in their events. Example is UKC. The UKC offers a ton of performance events in addition to conformation, and UKC registration is required for participation.


What is disturbing about this is that you can FULLY reg for the UKC with only a limited AKC reg. Someone mentioned this in another thread and I actually called their office to confirm, repeated myself twice and they said yes.

The also have Limited Privilege Reg for dogs with no AKC reg (like the AKC ILP/PAL).


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*



> Originally Posted By: Chris Wild But I can see it really being tricky for folks who are breeding for AKC conformation but also want to do whatever they can to help protect the dogs and bloodlines.


Jackie, 

Could you do a full reg but the breeder maintains co-ownership and registers the dog so that BOTH sigs are required to register a litter? I think I've seen arrangements like that before. I register my dogs with my husband as their co-owner but don't check that box about both sigs being required to register a litter or transfer the dog (not that I have any intention of doing either).


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*



> Quote:Could you do a full reg but the breeder maintains co-ownership and registers the dog so that BOTH sigs are required to register a litter?


This is most likely what I will be doing. People have told me that in the event the dog say, bites someone, or does damage to another person's personal property, if one owner cannot provide monetary compensation (or what have you) it becomes the responsibility of the other person that is signed on to the dog.

I do not know if this is true or not, but I'd rather risk it I think.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*



> Originally Posted By: northwoodsGSDShel,
> I am assuming(correct me if I'm wrong) that you are talking about me.


Actually it was you and another breeder







(And some others I've seen in the past, but they were _QUITE_ shady so I don't put all breeders in the same category.)

HI by the way


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*



> Originally Posted By: LiesjeWhat is disturbing about this is that you can FULLY reg for the UKC with only a limited AKC reg. Someone mentioned this in another thread and I actually called their office to confirm, repeated myself twice and they said yes.


From the UKC Single Dog Application:
For all dogs registered under a nonbreeding contract with a UKC-acknowledged registry, three (3) color photos, including a clear shot from the front and one taken from each side in profile, are required in order to be considered for full registration rights.

Hmm, my cousin got a Husky that I really want to show in conformation, but he has limited registration. Guess I could show him in UKC. I didn't think you could, but I must I read it wrong last time. My dogs had full since I show them in confo. so I just had to send in my copies and $$.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*

There IS a reason why an AKC limited registration might be changed to a full registration on a neutered dog. I had it done with Trick.

She was sold to me on a limited registration, and I had her spayed (never wanted to breed GSDs, so it was a non-issue). Then when she was 8 years old, I wanted to trial her in Canada for her CD (the Whitehorse shows are a two-day drive from here, many Alaskans go to these shows to earn Canadian titles since there are six conformation shows and four obedience trials in a three-day period). I contacted CKC and found that since Trick was on a limited AKC registration, she was NOT eligible to be shown in Canada even for performance events! They would accept a dog with an AKC ILP number (which meant a dog that wasn't actually registered at all) or they would accept a fully registered dog, but they didn't have any provisions for the limited registration. So I contacted Trick's breeder and asked if she would lift the limited registration. Since obedience titles help promote a breeder's dogs, she of course agreed and Trick ended up with a full registration many years after she'd been spayed.

She also qualified three times in a row for her CKC CD and we were able to skip the last trial and head home early. It was HOT HOT HOT in Whitehorse (in the 90's!) and the building was not air-conditioned. We had to drive through smoke on the way home as forest fires had cropped up along the way. But I'm glad we did it.

So if someone has a limited registered dog and they want to participate in CKC events, that's a valid reason for changing the limited registration to a full one even on a spayed/neutered dog.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: Limited versus Full - why does it matter?*

I like reading things like this, good info.


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