# I'm very frightened by Rocky's recent biting strangers.



## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

My dog has bitten two people in the past day. 

Background for those who haven't read previous threads on Rocky. He is from a backyard breeder, approaching a year and 4 months. He has never shown aggression towards me or anyone else in the past. He has never shown the slightest aggression towards other dogs. He does not bark at other dogs- period.

Rocky is very fearful of new people. He was abused my my boyfriend's ex roommate for a long period until I discovered it and does not let strangers pet him. Other than that, perfect dog!

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Until recently, when approached by strangers outside of my home, such as petsmart or on the sidewalk during walks, he never barked at anyone. He would just stand by me and move away if the stranger tried to pet him.

In home (he considers my apartment and my boyfriends parent's home his two homes), when a stranger knocks on the door, he runs to the door barking and growling. I just take him upstairs to his kennel before someone shows up if I know they are coming to avoid this. At my apartment and boyfriends, when people come over and he is in the living area, he will run up to them and bark with his hackles up. However, the second they walk in he would just run into a different room. Within about 30 seconds he would sniff them with his head extended as far as possible, ready to run. Once he sniffed them, he would ignore them the rest of the time, and if they tried to pet, he would duck his head to avoid it. Once they got a toy and tossed it a few times, he would play with them and have a great time but still not let them pet him until they had met him about 5-6 times.


We are at my boyfriends for christmas and he has been displaying completely different behavior. We walk twice a day for about 45 minutes, and train in a field behind the house. He is being more obedient than ever with his commands and settles down when I tell him to....

However, in the past day, we have had two friends that Rocky has bitten.

Friend #1--- He wanted to meet Rocky and there were guests downstairs so I brought him in the bedroom where Rocky was kenneled. I have done this tons of times for people to meet Rocky, and he growls when they first walk in but after that is just scared to sniff them at first then ignores them. However, this time when I let him out of the kennel he growled at the friend with his hackles up (which is normal for strangers IN house) and I told the friend to sit on the bed. So Rocky got up when I told him to and was just sniffing the friend, who was talking in a sweet voice and not trying to move or pet him. The friend stood up to get a treat and Rocky went at his back and bit him. Not a normal dog bite though. When he plays tag with people, he will run up and do a nip on their jeans where his teeth don't actually close all the way then run away to make them chase him. But when he did this same thing to my friend, he wasn't playing. He was growling. He jumped off the bed and did the same thing on his jeans, twice. My friend actually laughed because it was "kinda pathetic defense" but I wasn't laughing. I was super upset! Then Rocky acted like nothing had happened and ignored the guy and came up for me to pet him

Friend #2
Took Rocky in the backyard to potty and my friend was outside on the phone, not even looking at Rocky. ((he just got back from marines and hadn't met Rocky since he was a puppy)) Rocky started barking and growling and ran up to him and did the same thing to his jeans that he did to my other friends. This friend laughed too and Rocky just ran away, picked up a toy, then brought it back to the guy!


I don't know what to do or why this happened! All I know is that Rocky was scared to death of the guys. He wasn't protecting his house or me...he was really scared of them! I don't get why he did his "play nip" with these guys....He acted like he was attacking them. Everytime he would do a nip he would glance at them. Is this some kind of dominance thing? Or a "Hey I'm warning you don't mess with me?"

What can I do to stop this behavior (it just started yesterday) and should I be worried that Rocky would actually go from nip to bite? 

I am laid off at the moment and TG I bought 6 months of dog food and heart worm with my birthday money in November. My boyfriend is there to help with any medical bills Rocky could possibly have. So the only advice that won't help me is "go to a trainer". Rocky's previous trainer who helped us for free is at the triple crown dog academy and wont be back for awhile.

So does anyone have any thoughts as to WHY this behavior happened and HOW I can stop it?

PS:Rocky got neutered at 5 weeks old, not by me, and my vet said his development, mentally, will be slower than other dogs. He is the smartest dog I ever met, but could it be that as Rocky has matured he decided that running away wasn't how to handle fear? Or is he just testing these guys?

SO confused and so upset.

PS: My friends all said they would help me train him after I posted on here, so if you have solutions that require other people to help with the training, I have them!


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

TO try and illustrate Rocky's nip, I drew this terrible picture on paint










To describe it more, he opens his mouth the tiniest he can and doesn't really get any material between his teeth...he more so just presses his open mouth against them really quick then pulls back.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I am not sure why you keep pressuring this dog to meet new people when he's clearly terrified but that's got to stop.
I'm sure others will have good advice for working through this such as learning the dog's fear threshold and working under it.

What was the nature of the abuse? Hitting?


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

It was hitting on his head, also I found out this was happening because he didn't know I was home and walked in the the apartment and threw a backpack of textbooks on the sleeping puppy when he was 8 weeks old.

The reason I keep introducing him to new people is because aside from the initial five minutes where he is scared, he ignores them and has no problem with them.

When I first introduced him to new people as a puppy, he would sit in my lap and refuse to go to them. This progressed to looking at them, then eventually sniffing them, and now he will play with other people over the past year. His backyard breeder never socialized the pups or introduced them to any people. They lived on a porch.

He never meets new people when we are at our home. He is fine with the "usual" crowd. However, I am staying with my boyfriends family until the 20 of January and his friends that don't usually get to see him are home from college/the army and since they will be here every other day until I go home, I needed to introduce them. I can't keep him in the kennel all day long.

I'm not worried about introducing him to people. I can easily fix that by bringing him outside on the leash and having them walk up to us and then walk in the house with us. That skips the barking and fear. The issue is that he nipped two people. One was in my room, actually being introduced. The other was standing in the backyard minding his own business not even looking at us.

I am mainly worried about this behavior because when my boyfriends mom or dad come home from work, Rocky will bark when the door opens, but when he sees it is them, he wags his tail and wants to be petted. I am nervous that he is getting too wired/scared and could mistake the people he loves as strangers and nip them. I might be over imagining a little but I would rather prepare for the worst then say "oh he just barely nipped two people then played with them after".


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Exposing him to new people isn't a bad thing, it's how you are doing it. 
If he's feeling so scared and vulnerable he is biting, he's not having good, positive experiences. You have passed his threshold and are working over it and he's learning nothing. Please understand that he's _learning nothing_ except how to be more fearful and act out. He's giving fearful bites but it won't be long before he gains confidence to give a full-on bite. You cannot teach a dog anything when he's over his fear threshold. 

Please look for, and read a book called "Help for your Fearful Dog". 
Amazon.com: Help for Your Fearful Dog: A Step-by-Step Guide to Helping Your Dog Conquer His Fears (9780966772678): Nicole Wilde: Books

Fearful Dogs | Positive help for fearful, shy & anxious dogs
This is a good blog as well.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

One bite is one too many. Once that first bite happens, you really need to go into management mode. To keep it simple, you sound like you have no idea what you're doing with this dog and need someone with experience here. You need to get a trainer or behaviorist in for some help.

If the first 5 minutes make the dog uncomfortable, you need to find a way to manage those 5 minutes. You need to find a way to keep rocky comfortable while managing the situation so no one gets bit. 

You have to get someone in there or it's probably just going to get worse.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

Thank you for the posts. I am going to see if that book is available on my kindle and if not, order it. I am contacting my trainer to see when exactly he gets home and if not by the time I go back, I will be contacting someone else.

Until then, there is a nice training facility in arlington that does boarding as well. I board Rocky there when I visit and we go out of town from here. I will be calling her tomorrow.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

definitely a fear biter. from what you have described he usually bits when someones back is turned and or a fear biter will most of the time bit low, rather than full on upper body. he has now practiced bitting so its a learned behavior to get rid of the threat. he needs to be leashed in the presence of others and not be making his own decisions. and it does sound like you need professional guidence at this point, it is costly but well worth it since the dog is on his way to serious consequences. any situation you know he has practiced fearful behavior i would keep him out of until you can work on conditioning him to these situations. repeating negative situations is making things worse.


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## kitmcd (Aug 31, 2011)

I have a boxer/pit mix that sounds very similar to Rocky. We adopted him at 10 weeks after he was removed from an abusive situation by police dept. He has always been very nervous and fearful. 

His "safe" place is under the kitchen table. When doorbell rings he attacks the window. Before I let people in, he is sent to his "place" and will stay there, but is growling for the first few minutes.

When he was younger, I kept him on a leash when people were in. Now (8 years old), he will stay away from strangers and as long as he can be near me, he is fine.

As a puppy we tried a lot of socialization, my d even took him to work. D went to college when he was about a year and his behavior worsened. I'm sorry to say that I probably didn't do the right thing....I just helped him to avoid stressful situations.

Trainer is great idea. Good luck.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

your dealing with several things here., weak nerves, not a stable dog, (genetics), possibley abused, and lacking the knowledge on how to deal with a dog like this. not your fault. Most people do not know how to deal with a dog in this situation, thinking socializing is a good thing and trying to expose and get them used to things. this is a whole different ball game picking up the pieces and trying to understand where the dog is coming from and how to manage it, especially when the dog has already practiced negative behaviors and gone beyond threshold of tolerance. you need to back way up to the beginning as if he were a pup, slow exposure, and only short positive encounters, this takes time, patience and in this situation professional help.........lots of work, but it can get to a better place..........if your willing to work with it.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> PS: My friends all said they would help me train him after I posted on here, so if you have solutions that require other people to help with the training, I have them!


You will need a trainer/behaviorist for this. Meanwhile, how strong is he on obedience commands? Work with him especially on the 'watch me' command. You want this one solid. You want a reliable sit, down and stay. Once you have this, have your friend sit, read the paper etc, not paying any attention at all to the dog, on the other side of the backyard and with your dog ON LEASH go through the oc training as before. Have high value treats, praise him. Act silly, be loud, you want his attention on you. Once his commands are solid again, move a bit closer and repeat. This is training that needs to occur everyday, ideally a couple of times at least a day with you being calm, no tension and a loose leash. Your goal is for your dog to be able to realize he is safe, he isn't going to be hurt by that stranger sitting there and his focus completely 100% on you. Until you have a trainer present and able to guide you, I wouldn't advise actually meeting the friend/stranger.

Your dog has nipped, it could turn into a bite any time. It's going to take management on your part to keep him safe. Always on leash, always in an open area if he has to meet new people. Frankly that isn't something I would do with him having such a low thresh hold and not before his commands is solid. Those of us with special dogs like this have to accept there are lifestyle changes we have to make to keep our dogs and others safe. There is light at the end of the tunnel, it's going to take commitment and patience on your part and you accepting the limits that Rocky has.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Have you ever read "The Other End of the Leash" ? Neither are expensive and well worth the read. I see you are unemployed but you really should get a trainer. You don't have to go every week so that will save you money. You need to work on teaching him that strangers aren't bad. A LOT of counter conditioning. He should never be off leash around strangers because he will eventually gain confidence and it will be become a real bite instead of him just tagging someone. It's a really good thing both friends just laughed it off. One because they could have been really angry but more importantly for Rocky...his behavior didn't chase anyone off so he didn't learn that biting will make the scary people go away.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

If you'd be open to having someone from the rescue help you out in person, I'll talk to some people in that area and see what I can find. . . .


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Hey, the rescue sent me this info:
The canine center for behavior in sw Austin has a scholarship fund for just such situations, an they work a lot with Gsd rescue. Their phone # is 512-721-8496. Go ahead and tell them you had a referral from a Austin GSD Rescue volunteer.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Hey, the rescue sent me this info:
> The canine center for behavior in sw Austin has a scholarship fund for just such situations, an they work a lot with Gsd rescue. Their phone # is 512-721-8496. Go ahead and tell them you had a referral from a Austin GSD Rescue volunteer.


Outstanding Emoore! This is not my situation but would like to say "thank you"


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

I can tell you the consequences if you don't stop his behaviour. We adopted a rescue German Shepherd several months ago. Last week he bit someone, unprovoked, without any warning, for no reason. The man needed stitches. Animal control gave us until Wednesday to put him down, or they will seize him and put him down. This dog has always been sweet and loving with us, I just don't know what came over him, who abused him to make him this way, why he did that. He bit someone he has seen a dozen times. So my new rescue dog will be killed in two days because he bit someone. I wish I could have seen it coming to prevent it.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

asja said:


> I can tell you the consequences if you don't stop his behaviour. We adopted a rescue German Shepherd several months ago. Last week he bit someone, unprovoked, without any warning, for no reason. The man needed stitches. Animal control gave us until Wednesday to put him down, or they will seize him and put him down. This dog has always been sweet and loving with us, I just don't know what came over him, who abused him to make him this way, why he did that. He bit someone he has seen a dozen times. So my new rescue dog will be killed in two days because he bit someone. I wish I could have seen it coming to prevent it.


I'm so sorry.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Now, I do not mean this to be a dig...but if you were NOT expecting this to happen with your dog, you need a big-time wake up call. I realize it's a hard pill to swallow, but I have skimmed the threads on your dog off and on and I can say this is not at all a surprise. 

I don't think the BF's roommate shoudl be blamed, either (not saying he isn't a total POS).....weak nerves are weak nerves. The quicker you go into management mode the better off this situation will be.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

*"you need to back way up to the beginning as if he were a pup, slow exposure, and only short positive encounters, this takes time, patience and in this situation professional help.........lots of work, but it can get to a better place..........if your willing to work with it." - debbiebrown*

Thank you for this advice. I obviously pushed him to something he was not ready for. Rocky is my everything. I am willing to spend as much time and money as needed.

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*" Meanwhile, how strong is he on obedience commands? Work with him especially on the 'watch me' command. You want this one solid. You want a reliable sit, down and stay." -twyla*

He has a reliable sit, down, and stay...to a certain point. Indoors, he can down-stay for about 5 minutes without getting antsy. Outdoors, with no distractions is the same time period, but with distractions he will stand. He won't move towards them or bark, but will stand up when they walk by.

*"Always on leash, always in an open area if he has to meet new people. Frankly that isn't something I would do with him having such a low thresh hold and not before his commands is solid. Those of us with special dogs like this have to accept there are lifestyle changes we have to make to keep our dogs and others safe. There is light at the end of the tunnel, it's going to take commitment and patience on your part and you accepting the limits that Rocky has." -twyla*

This situation is obviously my fault. On leash, Rocky has no problem meeting new people. He just doesn't want to be touched. Off leash is when he gets frightened, which confuses me because off leash he can run away. I shouldn't have brought someone in a room he was enclosed in without a leash. Luckily, I only visit about 3-4 times a year here, and half the time he stays at the kennel. When at our real home, Rocky doesn't act this way, but that is because I never just bring new people in the house. We have a special routine where I take him outside to potty and my friend that hasn't met Rocky yet just "happens" to walk up and talks to me and ignores Rocky and he sniffs them and then they walk inside with us and that skips the whole fear/growling period... I just can't do that at my boyfriend's parents home.

Would the best solution be to not bring Rocky here and continue training at home? Obviously the fearful nipping behavior could spread to our real home, but he is a different dog when we are at home. Perhaps because I am always kind of tense and worried when we are here and feel like I have to watch him every second or put him in his kennel. I could be spreading my emotions to him.

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*"He should never be off leash around strangers because he will eventually gain confidence and it will be become a real bite instead of him just tagging someone. It's a really good thing both friends just laughed it off. One because they could have been really angry but more importantly for Rocky...his behavior didn't chase anyone off so he didn't learn that biting will make the scary people go away."

*My boyfriend thought it was no big deal, and I tried to say this to him so thank you for stating it as well so I can show him. I am very happy they both laughed it off, because as you said he would think the biting made them go away.

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*
Hey, the rescue sent me this info:
The canine center for behavior in sw Austin has a scholarship fund for just such situations, an they work a lot with Gsd rescue. Their phone # is 512-721-8496. Go ahead and tell them you had a referral from a Austin GSD Rescue volunteer. *

I won't be back in San Marcos until around the 17th of January. I will definitely give them a call (THANK YOU so much!). Until I am home and able to work with them, should I try and find another trainer? I have already bought two of the books recommended and will be reading them during the 5 hour drive to Houston tomorrow.

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*Now, I do not mean this to be a dig...but if you were NOT expecting this to happen with your dog, you need a big-time wake up call. I realize it's a hard pill to swallow, but I have skimmed the threads on your dog off and on and I can say this is not at all a surprise. *
You are completely right. Instead of acting like Rocky had a future fear aggression problem, I ignorantly assumed he would always just run away. To me it is a surprise, because I was ignorant. But now after reading what others have said and purchasing books on the topic, all the warning signs were there. I am just glad he has not actually bitten someone and has only nipped so I have to possibility of rehabilitating and training as much as possible for his situation. Genetics obviously play a huge role because of the BYB. Blame does not only lie with the ex roommate....I should have realized what was happening sooner. I am not offended in the slightest by this comment and I appreciate you saying it.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

No advice for you, but I know how upset you are. :hugs: I hope you get it figured out.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Fear aggressive dogs are the hardest to deal with. YOu are doing a good job of being proactive now...keep it up. As dismaying as the situation is, you will come out that much better of a dog owner and handler in the end.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

Emoore said:


> Hey, the rescue sent me this info:
> The canine center for behavior in sw Austin has a scholarship fund for just such situations, an they work a lot with Gsd rescue. Their phone # is 512-721-8496. Go ahead and tell them you had a referral from a Austin GSD Rescue volunteer.


Awesome.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

and yes, fearful dogs will take off on how your reacting in a situation, they are paranoid anyway, then they sense the owner getting scared, nervous, excited in a situation and they will react accordingly. you need to handle situations calmly, taking leadership and handling things..........


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Roxy, I'm sending you a PM about another behaviorist who works with the rescue on cases like this. She'd like you to go ahead and call her today or tomorrow so you can discuss the situation and she can give you some advice about what to do between now and when you can get back to town to set up an evaluation. She's expecting your call.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Is this some kind of dominance thing? Or a "Hey I'm warning you don't mess with me?"


No. A dominant dog is a confident dog, and his behavior is clearly that of a fearful dog - the fact that these were sneak attacks from behind shows that. 

You want to be very careful of the kind of trainer you work with or you could make this worse rather than better. Follow up with the information Emoore gave you.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

totally agree with Debbie, not all trainers/behaviorists are alike. there are alot of new training tecniques now days that these trainers are tweaking around with, some would not be good for a fearful dog. i think good ole traditional counter conditioning moving slowly working with the dogs tresholds is the best idea. and a good trainer Will be honest and point out things that the owner needs to work on as far as anything they are passing to the dog that are not helping in situations.


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## Rebecca0115 (Mar 8, 2016)

*Dog Trainer*

I feel for you...we had problems with our dog also. He used to hate other dogs. Both my husband and I work a lot and had no time to take our Bud to dog training classes. We asked one friend who works in foster care (he is always surrounded by dogs) what we should do. He recommended one online dog behavior trainer. I love this trainer [ur l=http : //bit.ly/1Tm6XWg] The Online Dog Trainer from Doggy Dan[/url]
It helped us a lot, and I strongly recommend it for you.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Rebecca0115: The post you commented on is almost 5 years old.


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