# We survived our first day of agility!



## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

....And I decided that we are REALLY going to enjoy it!

One thing I did not like is how persistent our trainer was about using any corrections or even the word "no". She would correct me any time I said no, saying to make a gasp or "oh no" or "whoops" noise instead. While I understand that agility is supposed to be OMG FUN, my pup is also my schutzhund prospect and we are just doing agility for another mental thing that we may pursue if it is a fit. Just thought it was interesting that I couldn't say "no". Her reasoning was "no means nothing to a dog" which I find incorrect since I always match my "no" with a leash correction during obedience, so it definitely means more than "whoopsie" does...

Either way we REALLY enjoyed it and had a good time, Versailles picked up on the aframe, jumps, and tunnel immediately (and for those worried, we are not doing a lot of jumping since she is young!) and kept going over the aframe every time we passed it because she loved it so much.

Hopefully we end up doing well! Good first day.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Glad you enjoyed your first class! Agility can be addicting


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

How old is your girl? Mine is 9 months and we just had our first agility class which they mix up with the agility. Mine is good with everything BUT the A frame- she would rather go around it- LOL

and I can see how it can become addicting- I can't wait for our next class!


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

She is 7 1/2 months old  She LOVED the a-frame! Definitely her favorite. The tunnel we had a little trouble with (started out with a U shaped one so she didn't really understand teh concept) but if I threw her ball through it a few times she picked it up right away. She is pretty small and compact (only 48lbs) so she's certainly "agile" enough for it right now.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

I'm glad you both had a great time!! 

One of the reasons you don't give corrections to dogs in agility is because you want them to stay drivey and don't want them to slow down, trying to be correct, always looking to you to see if they are right.

I try not to mark an incorrect behavior at all (not even with whoopsie or whatever). If my dog is wrong, I do something else that he gets right and give him a treat then move back to what was wrong. That way, he is still rewarded, but not for the incorrect behavior and the incorrect behavior is just ignored.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Your instructor is right. For agility, the MOST important thing is enthusiasm, speed and our pups offering behaviors. 

And...

In the REAL world with training and life, the word 'NO' should have alot of POWER! And not in a nagging nudging not-really-mean-it way. When I say 'NO' I want it to mean NO! Like 'NO' do not get near the skunk. Or 'NO' do not go in the road. Or 'NO' do not chew the electric cord. 

I want 'NO' to have the power to stop my dog in their tracks.

That said, 'NO' doesn't really train or give the dog the right thing to do. I do not have a world full of no no no no no no no no. *Cause that is a VERY demotiviating 'YOU KEEP BEING WRONG' world. *

*Instead, *agility in particular (and my world in general) is full of my dog being brilliant and right! So they keep trying. Keep being enthusiastic. Keep loving the training and being with me. They learn to try to figure out how to be right, *by ME becoming a better trainer, *and learning to figure out with my big big brain how to set them up to succeed and do it right.

Rather than my dog having to fail and do it wrong 'no no no' and learn by FAILURE.

Cause that's really the difference here. If you think you have to train by having the dog fail and LEARN they failed by our 'no no no' that is not good in agility. 

Instead, I only use a 'no' in agility if my dog is running over to say hi to a dog I know is aggressive. Or something else that may be actually DANGEROUS for my dog. 

Otherwise, agility is all about how brilliant my dog is and having them WANT to offer and try new things. Now not everything is 'right' but that doesn't mean it's a STOP DEAD IN YOUR TRACKS YOU 'BAD' DOG THAT WAS WRONG. So the 'right' thing earns us going on, or a treat or a verbal. And the 'wrong' thing has ME figure out how to SHOW the dog what I want instead. Or a much lesser verbal marker like the 'oops or uh uh'. Because I want the dog to stay in the game.

I'm actually impressed by your trainer and them getting on you with this from the very start. Many people don't learn this, especially newbies to agility, until a year or so along in training when suddenly they realize their dog is no longer flying around the course at top speed. Or isn't seeming to really enjoy agility any more. 

Because if you keep the 'no' in your vocabulary as agility goes on to get harder and more challenging, it will also get much more full of 'no's' as they take and off course or knock a bar or.......................... sucking the fun out of agility.

AGILITY IS ABOUT SPEED and doing the course properly. Both. Equally important. The speed of the dogs is in direct correlation to their enjoyment for the sport. And using 'no' for week after week after year of training assures a 'clean' run and perfection on a course. But it's at the expense of time. Our smart dogs learn if they slow way down and make absolute sure (double and triple checking before each obstacle) of where they are going, then they don't get mommy upset and earn those 'no's!!!!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

In beginning agility there are no wrong answers. Only right answers and right-er answers. You want your dog to keep trying passionately and excitedly without any fear whatsoever of being wrong or displeasing you.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

We're about to finish our first agility class- Stosh loved it from the very first night too! He especially loves the tunnel and the dog walk, even though he looks like a big cow up there. It's crazy how much fun they have and all the stuff they'll do just because we ask them to.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Stosh said:


> He especially loves the tunnel and the dog walk, even though he looks like a big cow up there.


Ha! Our instructor said that Kopper on the dog walk looked "Like Shaquille O'Neal on a balance beam." :rofl:


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> AGILITY IS ABOUT SPEED and doing the course properly. Both. Equally important. The speed of the dogs is in direct correlation to their enjoyment for the sport. And using 'no' for week after week after year of training assures a 'clean' run and perfection on a course. But it's at the expense of time. Our smart dogs learn if they slow way down and make absolute sure (double and triple checking before each obstacle) of where they are going, then they don't get mommy upset and earn those 'no's!!!!


 Great post MRL! 

If your dog is just starting agility, there is no reason for "correcting" them for being "incorrect". Because right now, there is no incorrect. Your pup has no idea what she is suppose to be doing, so dhe has no idea what she is being corrected for. In the beginning you want to build obstacle focus and confidence, instead of encouraging your dog to keep checking if their behavior is ok with you, which is what using corrections will encourage.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I think my main question is.... why can't I say no but can use the word "oopsie" or "GASP" or any other word I want, but not "no"? Her reasoning wasn't to keep drive, because there's no wrong answers, etc, but because "the word no doesn't mean anything to a dog".... which I don't think "whoopsie" means anything. So in that thought, what she really should be saying is "don't say anything at all"?

It makes sense either way it is put to me, but I don't see a lot of harm in using the word "no" if the dog goes around the tunnel, etc. If she goes around and I say "no, tunnel" and I'm not SCREAMING at her, I am imprinting the idea. I am not being mean, etc, I am just using the same format we've used to train for the past 5 months which has been successful for us. It is just a hard habit to break, I suppose.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I found myself saying 'no, over here' and things like that too. It's funny because I've never used 'no' before, it just came out and he certainly took it the way I meant it, so if it works for you and your dog, I wouldn't worry about it. 

Stosh is a giant furry goof but thinks he's a big bad boy in front of the other dogs in the class. He sure looked like a big klutz the first time on the dog walk when he was gripping the sides with his paws and his back legs were shaking! He attracted an audience once he was trotting along it like a pro. It's surprising how well they do after a few tries.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Haha Id imagine itd be pretty neat to see a big male do agility. V is very petite so it looks pretty natural for her to do. We will be trying the dog walk next time! Exciteeeee.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Shaina said:


> I think my main question is.... why can't I say no but can use the word "oopsie" or "GASP" or any other word I want, but not "no"? Her reasoning wasn't to keep drive, because there's no wrong answers, etc, but because "the word no doesn't mean anything to a dog".... which I don't think "whoopsie" means anything. So in that thought, what she really should be saying is "don't say anything at all"?


 I don't understand that reasoning, if that is what she told you. If you feel you have to say something, it should be lighthearted and in no way connected to being corrected. "Opps!" or "uh oh!" or "let's try again!" or whatever you want said in an upbeat way while you get her ready for another attempt. And if you find yourself having to get her ready for another attempt, you should be making it easier for her to succeed the second try. So say she passed up the tunnel when she was released for it from 5' away, the second try she should be right at the entrance when released to go through it. She should be successful way more often often then she isn't.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

AgileGSD said:


> I don't understand that reasoning, if that is what she told you. If you feel you have to say something, it should be lighthearted and in not connected to being corrected. "Opps!" or "uh oh!" or "let's try again!" or whatever you want said in an upbeat way while you get her ready for another attempt. And if you find yourself having to get her ready for another attempt, you should be making it easier for her to succeed the second try. So say she passed up the tunnel when she was released for it from 5' away, the second try she should be right at the entrance when released to go through it. She should be successful way more often often then she isn't.


The tunnel issue happened when we were first learning it. She went through it a few times after I'd thrown the ball inside, and marked the behavior. Then when we transitioned to pointing she would try to go around it. That's when I'd start her over and tell her "no, tunnel". She hadn't been trying it from a distance yet


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Stosh said:


> I found myself saying 'no, over here' and things like that too. It's funny because I've never used 'no' before, it just came out and he certainly took it the way I meant it, so if it works for you and your dog, I wouldn't worry about it.


I agree *and* disagree. Sure- you should absolutely be able to say any "lighthearted" (as AgileGSD put it) thing you want. And while "no" may currently fit that criteria- you will almost certainly reach a point of frustration where "no" becomes: "No" or "NO" or "NO!!!!" or "NO!!!! "

It just happens. I see multiple people in my class reach frustrated states where they start screaming "NO!" at their dog and tell the dog to settle down and stop being crazy, etc, etc. In the end though- when you get to that point you'll need to take a step back and realize it's your own lack of handling skills that is getting your dog so crazy and _seemingly_ so noncompliant. Because of this, you should _try_ to avoid such words that are *so* easy to use as your frustration rises.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

LOL.... I now have a vision of me getting so frustrated that I start screaming "WHOOPSIE". Kidding, of course.

In all seriousness, I am very lucky to have a fun, eager to train puppy with nice drives that makes training a very enjoyable experience. I have yet to find myself frustrated with her, and us doing agility is, for now, just a fun thing to do. If it gets to the point that I start screaming to her about tunnels.... maybe thats a sign to find something else to do.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Shaina said:


> ....
> Just thought it was interesting that I couldn't say "no". Her reasoning was "no means nothing to a dog" which I find incorrect *since I always match my "no" with a leash correction during obedience, so it definitely means more than "whoopsie" does...*


Going back to your original post/question is EXACTLY why you should try to stop using the word 'no'.

Because what you wrote is exactly the issue and EXACTLY the problem. 

We all DO use 'no' in other situations. And in many/most/all of them they are doing something WRONG and need to stop. In obedience, the 'no' even is getting collar correction. We really mean it. That was WRONG, and you need to knock that off and pay attention and do it right.

The mental mindset about agility, especially in the beginning and for the dog, is that they really aren't wrong. Really. If they are excited and happy and offering agility related behaviors, then that's right. Now our dog may have not done what we wanted it to do. Maybe not at all  . But they weren't so much 'wrong' (to earn a 'no') as........well...........maybe just not as correct as we would have probably preferred them to be :wild: .

It's really key due to the fact agility quickly gets off leash, that our dogs start to love love love it and want to do stay among the equipment with us. And the more they learn that they are constantly correct and getting treats and praise and it's fun fun fun, the more they will stick with us when the leash comes off. And work WITH us to figure out all the new things we have to teach. 

FAST AND FUN.

The fact is, when our dogs think something is a blast and they are always brilliant they will stick to it (and us) and keep trying. 

So you are RIGHT when you initially said 'a no means more than a whoopsie' and that's the point. The 'whoopsie' should just make them pause and maybe get out of the high joy stage and into the 'hm, maybe mom want something else'. 

And it's not cause they were WRONG or BAD or anything. Just that mom seems to maybe want them to try something else and when they do THEN mom is even more delighted and maybe some treats come their way! :wub:


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