# Doesn't like RMB or OM..



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

First, sorry I keep posting so much.. this is really the only thing helping me right now when I have specific questions.

Now down to business! Mr. Titan decided that he LOVES ground ANYTHING and raw eggs. Even I know this isn't enough. Last night was his first ALL raw meal. Before it was ground meats and his kibble.. as he needs a transition for how picky he is. I have tried raw turkey liver and heart and it's a no go.. wouldn't even touch it.. Last night he got ground beef, sardines and a chicken drumstick. Ate everything except the chicken.. it was almost as if he wanted to but didn't like working for it. I ended up having to sear it.. don't worry still VERY VERY raw, bone not even touched with heat.. just a few seconds on each side to get a smell and warm it up a bit. he showed more interest and started going to town but then would constantly leave it or huff and lay down next to it.. it took myself 3 separate times to encourage him to eat it. and every time I did, he would start on it again. But it was almost like trying to get your kid to eat veggies.. "ugh FINE i'll eat some more." until finally he had eaten it. The same thing is currently happening this morning though he's going back to it on his own after leaving it for a few minutes. I did have to cut it in half though. He's a chewer that takes small bites so I'm wondering if that was too much for him at once. 

My question.. is this him not liking it and am I going to play this game every meal, or is he just getting used to it. He doesn't like Turkey Neck, I know that one. If he doesn't like RMB and OM what can I do to make sure he gets a balanced diet? Suggestions or advice???

Whitney


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

And now he ate about a quarter of the chicken leg, and won't eat it anymore. He just huffs and lays next to it when I encourage him. I'm trying not to get frustrated but he's such a picky eater and I don't know what to do for him sometimes.. help.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

JMHO, but I think picky eaters are sometimes created by owners! A hungry dog will ultimately eat what you put down for it - might take a while, but I don't know of any healthy animal that will willingly starve itself. In the meantime, you are right in assuming that what you are feeding is not balanced. Plus there are some dogs which don't like fish, though they will eat everything else. Have you spent any time researching raw (or home cooked) diets? It isn't just a question of putting a few items together and leaving it at that - especially in the beginning, some guys do better on just one protein source at a time, usually something like chicken. If your pup doesn't like bones you can buy a grinder and grind them up - but you must have bones in the diet in some form for calcium....... www.b-naturals.com has excellent advice on feeding, it's where I got all the info I needed to switch from kibble to raw. Just look through the archived newsletter section (I think she addressed picky eaters somewhere along the way) and check out the recipe section for ideas - then pick a diet and stick with it, no more trying this, trying that, while your dog goes ho-hum and enjoys the show. If you feed raw correctly, there will be enough variety to keep any dog interested - my guys get beef, lamb, chicken, pork,turkey, occasional bison/elk, salmon, sardines, mackerel. Green tripe, gizzards, trachea, turkey and beef heart, raw eggs. Three or four times a week they get a liver-kidney-heart mix added to their food. (Organ meat is very rich, you don't want to overdo it.) Good luck! 
____________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I have done A LOT of research, so muchto the point I overwhelmed myself and was scared to try the diet. When I started reading the forum, I realized that it's not that bad, jsut a new habit to get used to. Which I'm fine with. 

The only thing I have ever struggled with with Titan is eating. He is in no way shape or form, food motivated. He will not eat for a week if i let him simply on principle. 

I do realize it's not just throwing things together which is why have been looking at others menus, I do however know that when switching for any dog you don't add a whole bunch of things until the dog gets used to it.. I knew he liked ground meats.. so I tried Chicken.. I may try a different cut. Or maybe he will just need some getting used to actually working somewhat for his food. He doesn't chew on anything very much, no raw hides, no nylabones, no real raw bones (my fault not his), but he USED to chew a lot on his nylabone and gave up once we moved here about 4 months ago.. I'm wondering if it is more just him getting used to chewing again...


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Give him a leg quarter and leave it for 15 minutes. If he doesn't eat it take it away. He gets NOTHING else. Next meal do the same. He will eat eventually. Of course that leg quarter may need to be replaced with a fresher one after a few days.  Searing the meat can help some dogs. 

Since he isn't a chewer you might have his mouth checked. You want to make sure there isn't a reason why he doesn't want to chew.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

lhczth said:


> Give him a leg quarter and leave it for 15 minutes. If he doesn't eat it take it away. He gets NOTHING else. Next meal do the same. He will eat eventually. Of course that leg quarter may need to be replaced with a fresher one after a few days.  Searing the meat can help some dogs.
> 
> Since he isn't a chewer you might have his mouth checked. You want to make sure there isn't a reason why he doesn't want to chew.


Are you saying JUST the leg quarter at first til he eats it, with no other meats?

And about the chewing.. I have an appointment for that. hope everything is ok.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

Funny thing, my old dog Zeus hATED turkey, so I didn't bother buying it for him.

Right now, I have about 6 chubs of ground turkey necks in the freezer, so far- Koda eats it but it's not his favorite. 

CHicken- he loves chicken, any form - ground, chicken frame, legs etc
Beef, venison and greentripe are his favorites.

I agree with Lisa, if he doesn't eat it in 15 minutes, take it away.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

wyoung2153 said:


> I have done A LOT of research, so muchto the point I overwhelmed myself and was scared to try the diet. When I started reading the forum, I realized that it's not that bad, jsut a new habit to get used to. Which I'm fine with.
> 
> The only thing I have ever struggled with with Titan is eating. He is in no way shape or form, food motivated. He will not eat for a week if i let him simply on principle.
> 
> I do realize it's not just throwing things together which is why have been looking at others menus, I do however know that when switching for any dog you don't add a whole bunch of things until the dog gets used to it.. I knew he liked ground meats.. so I tried Chicken.. I may try a different cut. Or maybe he will just need some getting used to actually working somewhat for his food. He doesn't chew on anything very much, no raw hides, no nylabones, no real raw bones (my fault not his), but he USED to chew a lot on his nylabone and gave up once we moved here about 4 months ago.. I'm wondering if it is more just him getting used to chewing again...


Dogs don't act on "principle." And I don't believe he would go for a week without eating, that would be a very sick dog..... I second the advice to put food down, and walk away. Do not negotiate or "encourage" him in any way, just ignore him.Take it away after about 15-20 mins. Do not present it again until the next scheduled meal time. Pretty soon your "picky" guy will get the idea that he either eats what you provide or he doesn't eat, and he is not going to get any more attention from you in order to try and persuade him. The survival instinct is very strong, so unless there is some physical reason for his inappetance, he WILL eat. Eventually. (It's true about turkey though, some dogs don't like it.) 

Also a good idea to check his mouth. The one time I had a dog stop chewing I found out he had an abscessed molar. Ouch!
__________________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Anja1Blue said:


> Dogs don't act on "principle." And I don't believe he would go for a week without eating, that would be a very sick dog..... I second the advice to put food down, and walk away. Do not negotiate or "encourage" him in any way, just ignore him.Take it away after about 15-20 mins. Do not present it again until the next scheduled meal time. Pretty soon your "picky" guy will get the idea that he either eats what you provide or he doesn't eat, and he is not going to get any more attention from you in order to try and persuade him. The survival instinct is very strong, so unless there is some physical reason for his inappetance, he WILL eat. Eventually. (It's true about turkey though, some dogs don't like it.)
> 
> Also a good idea to check his mouth. The one time I had a dog stop chewing I found out he had an abscessed molar. Ouch!


Yeah I am defnintely taking him to the vet, it just recently dawned on me that he doesn't chew on his chews like he used to.

And picky eater doesn't even begin to describe this boy. I am not saying he starves himself because I THINK that's what he would do, I KNOW he has and will. He did that a lot as a puppy and yes almost an entire week (5 days) of not eating until I changed kibble. Still drank water and played a lot.. He would eat the new kibble for a small while.. maybe a good bag or two's worth then repeat his "I'm not eating this because I don't like it attitude." and it's simply that.. he doesn't like it. If I put wet food in it.. he would gobble it up EVERY time. I do the 20 minute rule of eating twice a day.. if he doesn't eat it.. I take it away. 

Personally I think it stemmed from being deployed when I first got him and the people that watched him didn't follow my direction of NO PEOPLE FOOD unless he has eaten his meal that day and even then I would rather none be given to him if only as a small treat here and there. They would mix in things with his food if he didn't eat it.. eggs, bacon grease, chicken, etc. They have never watched him again but ever since, I have had this problem. I finally found a kibble that he eats only about 85% of the time since we moved here (4 months ago)... but he's not eating it all when he does.. always leaves kibble and is just not getting all he needs. which is where the Raw diet came in.. I thought it might help him nutritionally as well as he would actually eat his food and it wouldn't be a constant battle. He's very "healthy dog" according to the vets I have taken him to, they don't know why he is picky about food. but just is, and they say I have to accept his personality and go with it. And I have, I love him to pieces. Which is why I am constantly bugging everyone on this forum about this diet.. and every one has been a tremendous help.. but since I'm new at this BARF thing.. I worry that he doesn't like this either.. then where will I be?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

wyoung2153 said:


> Are you saying JUST the leg quarter at first til he eats it, with no other meats?


Nope, no other meats. He goes hungry.


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

> Give him a leg quarter and leave it for 15 minutes. If he doesn't eat it take it away. He gets NOTHING else. Next meal do the same. He will eat eventually.


Had to laugh at this "eventually". I always see this type of response, and would like to see someone state exactly how long their dog went with NOTHING until he ate something he didn't want. We have gone as long as 24 hours (three meals) and Liesl was going crazy with us begging for food, treats, etc. (which we weren't giving her) but we just couldn't stand it and gave in, either cooking the chicken or getting something else for her. Definitely weakness on our part.

Whitney, our two dogs could be twins. Liesl won't touch chicken; if I braise it she'll eat the cooked part and leave the rest. She will eat a raw chicken bone if the meat is removed, however! So, if your dog does that, you might consider deboning some chicken thighs and keeping the meat for yourself and giving him the bones with the ground beef that he will eat.

IMHO life is too short, and there is too much variety available, to make each meal with your dog a struggle. However, that doesn't mean you cant feed raw, and it doesn't mean you have to compromise on nutrition.

I advise going to "low end" grocery stores where you find chicken feet, pork neck bones, whole fresh or frozen fish like tilapia, pork tails, etc--these all contain bone, and other nutrients and oils. Buy just a few, and try them. Some of these are accepted better if cold or even frozen, I think it has to do with the texture or smell. Note what he will eat, and plan your dog's menus around what he will eat.

Since she was about 5 months (she's now 11 months) Liesl has gotten two daily feedings of ground meat + a bone source + infrequent diced OM. Since there is bone but no "meaty bone" we make up for the missing meat by increasing the weight of the ground meat a bit, according to the BARF weight and activity chart recommendations. She will get an occasional whole or half raw tilapia which she eats ravenously, occasional lambchops left overs, steak and salmon leftovers, and cooked chicken leftovers. We throw in some rice for digestion occasionally, and feed her a multivitamin every other day or so. We will mix a whole egg in once a week with the shell as a treat. 

As for organ meat, we have to finely dice it and "hide" it in the ground meat. She still can smell it and is reluctant to eat it. If I put too much in there I have to pan fry the outside of the GM patty to get her salivating, and then she'll eat it. Overall, not too time consuming, and IMHO much preferred to feeding her a bunch of unhealthy commercial food. I feel we are getting her enough calcium in this diet.

If she is malnourished it doesn't show yet. She is bright, alert, healthy, and responsive. Her coat is soft and tight, her breath good, not much "dog" smell, and she has those wonderful, small, odor-free poops.

Remember, dogs lived for years just fine on a highly inconsistent diet of table scraps and refuse from human kitchens and campfires, with an occasional rabbit or dove thrown in. As long as he's not getting human sweets and too many dog treats, and eating good meats, fish, eggs, and bones, he should be good to go.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Thank you so much! That is really helpful and encouraging.. I mentioned in a previous post about him not eating for a solid 5 days even when the food was offered.. and it was honestly because he didn't like it. As soon as i would put wet food in it.. he would gobble it up in a heartbeat! He did this MULTIPLE times in his puppyhood and still does it occasionally.


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## SitUbuSit (Aug 1, 2011)

I would try getting a boneless cut of something (chicken breast or beef steak) and browning it VERY lightly on the stove. It will still be raw inside, but it will give off a smell that might be more appealing and recognizable as food. 

It has to be boneless, or else you risk cooking the bone, which could cause shattering and other bad things. 

You still need bone for a balanced diet, so I'd supplement with bone meal. This one is recommended in Dr. Becker's book: Buy NOW Foods - Bone Meal Powder - 1 lbs. at LuckyVitamin.com

If he takes to that, I'd try going completely raw the next day.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would give some chicken necks for the bone, most dogs will eat the necks(no chewing required if it was Karlo or Onyx). If you have the $, invest in a grinder and grind the organs/muscle meat and chicken. I don't think I'd use a bone meal powder long term. The most recent Whole Dog Journal has an article on this.
If you are just searing meat(with bone) the bone will not cook.


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