# GSD ON CRAIGSLIST



## BobbyShermanice (Jul 25, 2019)

Let me preface my post by sharing that for 4 months, I have been diligently searching GSD rescues and craigslist for a young adult German Shepherd for my daughter and her boyfriend. Owning a wonderful rescue GSD myself, I initially focused on that source. I soon discovered that because of COVID quarantines, people are adopting dogs as quick as they're posted. All the reputable rescues have a lengthy application process, so if you see a dog online and you haven't already been approved, it is certain to be gone by the time you are approved. So basically we had to apply to half a dozen rescues and wait. It was our experience that the best dogs went to the applicants who fostered first. Most of the available dogs had behavioral issues from neglect or abuse. The most common issues were timidity, fear reactivity and separation anxiety. There were some dogs with potential, but they were going to be a work in process.

Out of desperation; I turned to the dreaded craigslist. I conducted at least 25 telephone interviews, engaged in countless dozens of text messages and emails and actually met 8 owners and dogs. I came to the conclusion that 70% of the sellers were exasperated by a puppy they weren't prepared to commit to, or they had a dog they left out in the backyard chained to a tree and neglected. Some owners were facing eviction, health issues and other hardships that prevented them from keeping the dog. There were numerous backyard breeders, most of whom were strikingly ignorant of breeding standards and practices and a couple of "European importers" offering dogs of dubious origin. The cheapest dog I encountered was free; the most expensive: $5000. I had a lot of culling and vetting ahead of me. Despite my daughter's repeated pleas to settle for a "cute" dog. I made her wait for the right one.

It quickly became apparent I was going to have to be patient, and have a systematic process if I was to have any hope of success. About 15 years ago, I took a _forensics linguistics _course at work that featured textual analysis of emails and text messages to detect deception or impute motive and intent in criminal investigations. I thought it was psycho-babble, mumbo-jumbo at the time, but came to appreciate it's potential. To describe it at it's simplest terms is it teaches you to "read between the lines".

The first step was to interview experienced GSD owners, trainers, a schutzhund enthusiast and a vet to identify traits and characteristics to avoid in dogs, but just as importantly, to avoid in owners. My target owner was an individual who obtained basic obedience training for his dog, had detailed current vet records and was selling his dog because work commitments or changed living arrangements prevented him from keeping the dog. 

The next step was to formulate questions regarding dog's origin, health issues and supporting vet records, level of training, detailed questions about specific behavioral issues, living arrangement, type of diet, drive, and equipment and toys. I then identified key words and phrases featured in ads that raise flags. Some of the ads that raised alarms had the following descriptions:

Aggressive, needs to be the only dog.
Inside and outside dog.
*Hyper or high energy
*Suspicious of strangers
*Shy
*Not a lot of leash experience, pulls on leash.

Individually, any of the above terms are not necessarily disqualifiers. They just warrant further inquiry. If an ad interested me, I emailed, rather than call for the first contact and posed the series of questions I prepared. I would submit from between 6 and 11 questions. A significant number of sellers didn't respond back to my email. Some respondents were evasive or ignored some of the questions. Most were surprisingly candid. I followed up with a telephone call, and if I got a good vibe, met the owner and dog. All the above was a lot of work, but less effort than living with an out of control bundle of K9 neurosis.

The outcome: A healthy, 2 year old male with strong foundational obedience, high play drive, good off switch, impeccable house manners and good heel and leash. He came with $500 worth of items including a high quality crate HS collars, toys, flirt poles and leashes. I've begun private instruction with a reputable trainer who also competes in Schutzhund. She was horrified when she heard we got the GSD from craigslist. Her horror was dispelled soon after she evaluated him. Her assessment was my daughter and boyfriend needed more training than the dog!

In the final assessment, what were the greatest factors in getting a fabulous dog on craigslist: PATIENCE and LUCK!


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## chuckd (Jul 16, 2019)

I applaud your methodology and the care and discipline it must've taken to remain true to your process. Congratulations on finding your daughter a dog.

The rescues were too busy, so you became your own, one-man rescue. Well done.

Pics please and keep us updated while you're at it!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I agree that doing research, patience and good vetting can get you a good dog on CL. Not everyone is a scammer


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Your diligence is impressive. I wish everyone here who adopted a dog used the same criteria.

I had no trouble getting approved personally and passing a home inspection for GSD reacue when I got my girl but when they heard all my prior GSD experience, they directed me toward a very challenging dog. I already had a difficult rescue and wanted an easy dog. Even after I found her at their adoption event, they tried to talk me out of it because easy dogs are quickly placed. I said, No, I spent a few hours with her and bonded, and it was that dog or I would go to a breeder. I got that dog, who turned out to be a perfect companion for us and for our other dog.


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## BobbyShermanice (Jul 25, 2019)

That's a great story. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people make no plans or preparation for getting a dog, and wonder why it turns into a disaster. I've owned half a dozen dogs in my life and never had a puppy. I've had good luck in my choices. I think the dog I just got for my daughter is going to be the best one yet. What was really tragic was talking to the people who really loved their dog, but lost their job and were being evicted and couldn't keep it. I did encounter a couple of scammers on craigslist with beautiful dogs posted that wanted me to wire money upfront. The weirdest thing I encountered are sellers who have elaborate stories, and keep cancelling and rescheduling meetups and turn out to not ever had a dog.


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## BobbyShermanice (Jul 25, 2019)

Some Pics of "Moose"


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Nice.
Evidently, I'm not suitable as a GSD owner, since I don't have a fence around our 10 acre wooded back yard....


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## Miika's Mom (Sep 23, 2013)

WNGD said:


> Nice.
> Evidently, I'm not suitable as a GSD owner, since I don't have a fence around our 10 acre wooded back yard....


Don’t feel alone in that, I have 20 with 500 behind me and an open 20 in the front. Told them I could have a fence up around the house in a day (which I did) and they wouldn’t talk to me again.

Got Miika off CL. She has been the best! 🥰


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## Catrinka (Aug 6, 2020)

WNGD said:


> Evidently, I'm not suitable as a GSD owner, since I don't have a fence around our 10 acre wooded back yard....


Ha! Same here. Years ago, we were turned down by a rescue group a few hours from us during a phone interview because we don't have a 'contained' backyard. Our 20+ acres of pasture and wooded land and the fact that our dogs are always glued to our sides (whether indoors or playing outside) didn't make a difference. It must be a policy most/many of them stick to.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Nice.
> Evidently, I'm not suitable as a GSD owner, since I don't have a fence around our 10 acre wooded back yard....


Terribly unsuitable. I would give up suitability for ten acres.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Catrinka said:


> Ha! Same here. Years ago, we were turned down by a rescue group a few hours from us during a phone interview because we don't have a 'contained' backyard. Our 20+ acres of pasture and wooded land and the fact that our dogs are always glued to our sides (whether indoors or playing outside) didn't make a difference. It must be a policy most/many of them stick to.


Because many dogs land in rescue due to wandering. It’s not you, it’s the dog. With complete freedom and no fences, they might run away again.


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## chuckd (Jul 16, 2019)

What a handsome, happy guy!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I was turned down for a dished gemak I liked by a rescue because our 12 year old male Whippet was intact. So now I have a good breeder


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Hmm I have an intact dog. I guess no rescues for me either unless I don’t tell them. Although my friend has an intact male and was able to adopt from the same rescue. The dog was a special case, though, old and sick.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

I tried to foster a female and was told no since Ozzy is not neutered and can’t hide it because they call the vet. Kept asking me why was my boy not fixed I said because I don’t want to no reason to do it. After she tells me no she proceeded to tell me to fix my dog blah blah blah. I said don’t worry about my dog you just lost out on a great foster. Rescues drive me nuts.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

I got Willow off craigslist. It was kind of on a whim, I had e-mailed the lady Sunday night, she called me Monday and I showed up in my work truck to see her in a church parking lot....the woman was kinda frantic. I ended up running 2 blocks to the bank, withdrawing $50, coming back, and putting Willow in the truck, with nothing but her, her collar, and her leash. I had not had plans to get a dog that day but her owner just happened to be in town.

Yeah, it was on a whim, but it turned out really good (after a few hard, uncertain months...mostly because I didn't know what I was doing). No regrets!

But yeah, after some texting back and forth with her owner, and reading between the lines...my suspicion is Willow was backyard bred, then kept by this lady to be a breeder (cuz she's so pretty), but when Willow only had 2 pups that nearly died at birth she decided to get rid of her. She had some fear aggression that really worried me for the first few months, but she's so much calmer now, and she has such a personality and is (mostly) obedient. A great work and home companion.

I had tried to adopt a dog through the local German shepherd rescue about a year or so before this, and the lady there clearly had too many dogs at the time and was trying to rehome them. She immediately tried to push this young GSD on me that wasn't trained at all and there was no way I was going to be able to do it. So I sorta had the opposite experience as many of you--I had literally no reason to be considered a good potential adopter, yet they tried really hard to shove this dog off on me. And the adoption fee was like $500. The place has since been sold and relocated and I think the new owners are doing a much better job.


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## BobbyShermanice (Jul 25, 2019)

banzai555 said:


> I got Willow off craigslist. It was kind of on a whim, I had e-mailed the lady Sunday night, she called me Monday and I showed up in my work truck to see her in a church parking lot....the woman was kinda frantic. I ended up running 2 blocks to the bank, withdrawing $50, coming back, and putting Willow in the truck, with nothing but her, her collar, and her leash. I had not had plans to get a dog that day but her owner just happened to be in town.
> 
> Yeah, it was on a whim, but it turned out really good (after a few hard, uncertain months...mostly because I didn't know what I was doing). No regrets!
> 
> ...


Wow; Willow is a good looking dog. Early in the process, my daughter was going to adopt a GS from a rescue group. I thought the dog had problems that my niece wasn't prepared to deal with. I realize the rescue group wants to find the right home for the dog, but the investigation was ridiculous. She waited close to five weeks and they wanted to do multiple home visits. The home visits in the middle of a pandemic was the final straw. We withdrew our application.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

BobbyShermanice said:


> Wow; Willow is a good looking dog. Early in the process, my daughter was going to adopt a GS from a rescue group. I thought the dog had problems that my niece wasn't prepared to deal with. I realize the rescue group wants to find the right home for the dog, but the investigation was ridiculous. She waited close to five weeks and they wanted to do multiple home visits. The home visits in the middle of a pandemic was the final straw. We withdrew our application.


One visit is expected. More than one doesn’t make sense unless they asked her to change something in the house or yard.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

LuvShepherds said:


> Hmm I have an intact dog. I guess no rescues for me either unless I don’t tell them. Although my friend has an intact male and was able to adopt from the same rescue. The dog was a special case, though, old and sick.


Oh, then they are more lenient. Very frustrating. It's easier to foster a human child


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

You can find a good dog anywhere if you know what you’re looking for.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Oh, then they are more lenient. Very frustrating. It's easier to foster a human child


Only if you take an old and sick dog.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Lexie is another successful CL adoption.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

I was turned down by about 6 rescues before I got Titus (my ACD/beagle mix):
Here are the reasons:
1. No prior dog experiences.
2. Work too much (I spent about five hours daily at the office at that time).
3. My city backyard was too small (at least I had one).
4. My backyard was not fenced.
5. No kids in the house so the dog would not have playmates.
6. Not outdoorsy enough.
7. Too noisy. (I lived with my brother and he's a musician). 

Titus came from Petfinder.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

About rescues having a policy for not selling a dog where the prospective owner has an intact pet, well, a rescue generally believes that people breeding dogs are the reason they are needed. So they equate, not _fixing_ your dog with irresponsibility on your part. I give them credit for calling your vet. They have to take the information they retrieve and make it go a long way. Finding in it something that questions your responsibility toward your dogs is grounds for dismissal. May be a great rescue, yes they will miss out on good fosters and good prospective owners, but they will probably miss out on quite a few bad ones too this way. Most of the folks who are keeping the nuggets in place are not doing it for the dog's health and well-being. Most are doing it because they can't be bothered, don't want to spend the money, or think about their own testicles and can't imagine doing that to their dog. So, what would you? Do you want a dog that already didn't make it with one set of owners land with someone who can't be bothered providing care? What else will they not be bothered with doing? Or, one that balks at the price of a neuter? What happens when the dog has a serious injury or illness? Or how about the dudes who see their own testicles being removed? Isn't that anthropomorphizing their dogs? Well, maybe not. But you get the picture. I think you get the picture. I would not give the rescue a bad name for having such rules. If you want to keep a dog intact for all the good reasons, and why you wouldn't disclose them when asked, I suppose you either have to go to a breeder for your dog, or to a less reputable rescue, or yes craig's list to get a dog from someone who is less picky. 

I don't know what it would hurt to say, "I believe that the hormones are there for more than reproduction, and that dogs are healthier if left as nature intended. I would hate to do something to my dog that might cause him to have trouble now or down the road, health-wise." They still might not take you answer as sufficient, but just telling them that you don't want to, puts you in one of the above categories.


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## saintbob (Jul 14, 2018)

Well you're fortunate that your CL listed a dog available. Here in central NY tptb won't let you do that. Sometimes they do slip through before the Karen's notice. Good report, thanks.


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## BobbyShermanice (Jul 25, 2019)

I think it is admirable that we have people willing to volunteer their time administering dog rescue groups and opening their homes to fosters. It makes sense to determine if applicants for adoption are suitable for a specific dog, provide references, verify living arrangements and financial responsibility. The GSD rescue group I got my GS from 5 years ago required I complete a detailed application with references, provide Google satellite images and photos confirming a yard and fence, and utility bills, lease etc, confirming residence. It culminated in meeting the dog.

The rescue group my daughter applied to took a process that should have taken 2 weeks at the most, and turned it into a 5 week ordeal. The final straw was the insistence of multiple home visits. Considering my daughter has her 80 year old grandmother living with her, who has numerous risk factors for covid, the visitation requirement was outrageous. Frankly, even without the grandmother factor, the visitation requirement was an unreasonable public health risk. I wouldn't let them in my house. My daughter made the right decision and withdrew her application, depriving a dog of a good home.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

After dealing with a couple rescues I decided some people are hoarders who want multiple dogs. Most local governments put a number on the quantity of dogs a person may have and people with more than that call themselves a 'rescue' to avoid animal control. They place restrictions on the adoption that no human being could ever meet so they won't have to get rid of the dogs. That and animal behaviorists who insist on you meeting impossible criteria. It's a dog people, it just wants a loving home. 

We got Duke by waiting until the shelter could hold no more and they decided to have a 'sale' which is what happens when the animal behaviorist turns everyone away.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Our family would have never been approved to adopt a Border Collie for example, now that we own one for 6 years I don’t think there would be a problem.
The same thing happened with Shar Pei, the 1st one we pulled from the kill shelter, THEN got ahold of a local shar pei rescue and immediately got approved as a volunteer/foster.
In general, I think some rescues would understand if you are reasonable with them that you don’t want your dog to get spayed/neutered and also that you are not a fan of yearly booster shots.


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## CEMC (May 2, 2020)

We initially wanted to rescue a young GSD, a Doberman or a Malinois. Every time we were notified of a suitable candidate we immediately responded only to find that the dog was already adopted & we were then "guided" to check out a list of other dogs that did not fit the description of what we really wanted. This went on for several months until we arrived at the conclusion that we were not going to be successful so we withdrew our application & went on to buy our puppy from a breeder. 
We don't know exactly why this happened. Maybe it was only bad luck but we can't help feeling that we may have been snubbed. I guess we'll never know for sure.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

1 d ago

Isn't that called, "bait and switch"??? Were the dogs you were steered to more expensive? 


_We initially wanted to rescue a young GSD, a Doberman or a Malinois. Every time we were notified of a suitable candidate we immediately responded only to find that the dog was already adopted & we were then "guided" to check out a list of other dogs that did not fit the description of what we really wanted._


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## CEMC (May 2, 2020)

Buckelke said:


> 1 d ago
> 
> Isn't that called, "bait and switch"??? Were the dogs you were steered to more expensive?
> 
> ...


Not more expensive, but less desirable (to us). Most were dogs that were more difficult to place in homes. Most were other breeds, but some were quite advanced in age, traumatized or scarred by poor treatment, had health issues or behavior problems like "no children, no cats, don't do well with other dogs", etc. 

The adoption process was hard on us. Searching through photos of unfortunate souls that need a good home is heart breaking. We cannot keep more than one or two dogs so we can't adopt every animal we meet. Our GSD is now 9 months old & we are glad the process of finding a puppy is over.


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## finn'smom (Oct 4, 2019)

I'm not against rescue, I have fostered.. but sometimes the requirements are a bit silly. One rescue near me won't adopt if your fenced yard doesn't have a direct access door from the house, I understand not wanting someone to write off a 6x10 enclosure as a fenced yard but be reasonable. My fully fenced backyard (which is the whole yard - decent size in a small town) would disqualify me as I have to walk from the side door approximately 10 feet to the gate with the dog. That same rescue will adopt to someone in an apartment though. Perhaps I'm missing the logic.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

CEMC said:


> Not more expensive, but less desirable (to us). Most were dogs that were more difficult to place in homes. Most were other breeds, but some were quite advanced in age, traumatized or scarred by poor treatment, had health issues or behavior problems like "no children, no cats, don't do well with other dogs", etc.
> 
> The adoption process was hard on us. Searching through photos of unfortunate souls that need a good home is heart breaking. We cannot keep more than one or two dogs so we can't adopt every animal we meet. Our GSD is now 9 months old & we are glad the process of finding a puppy is over.


Was it a German Shepherd rescue? Usually they only adopt out one breed or related breeds. I found if you have any GSD experience they like to “trade up.” I wanted a puppy without issues, and kept being steered toward dogs with out of control aggression. I already had a challenging rescue and didn’t want another. I did get the one I wanted, but I had to be firm and say either give me her or I would buy a dog. You made the right decision.


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## CEMC (May 2, 2020)

LuvShepherds said:


> Was it a German Shepherd rescue? Usually they only adopt out one breed or related breeds. I found if you have any GSD experience they like to “trade up.” I wanted a puppy without issues, and kept being steered toward dogs with out of control aggression. I already had a challenging rescue and didn’t want another. I did get the one I wanted, but I had to be firm and say either her or I would buy a dog. You made the right decision.


Yes it was. When I say "other breeds" I meant that they were crosses of GSD's with other breeds. Some did not look like a GSD very much. When I withdrew my application and told them we decided to find a puppy from a breeder they didn't seem to care. Like I said we felt snubbed. 
This our boy Bruno at 7 months


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