# Looking for breeder for West German or DDR for companion dog



## Gsdxo (Apr 3, 2011)

Hi. I'm kind of going bonkers here trying to find a responsible and hints breeder. Can anyone help out. I am in new York and am looking for a west german or DDR GSD. Preferably black and red if not black and tan. This dog will primarily be a companion dog but I would like to bond with it by training him. 

I have researched so many breeders and every time I decide one one I find out there is something unsavory about their conduct. All of this is via internet so really there is no way for me to know one way or the other if complaints about a breeder are made by competitors or actual customers.

I was recently speaking with zimmer Von Himmel (even though he seems to be more of an agent than a breeder) but was a little put off when he insisted on me sending him a cashiers check rather than a personal one (which could in my mind prove I gave him a deposit should he not make good on delivering a 
pup). He said it's because he didn't want to wait fir the check to clear but the litter isn't available for 6 weeks so that doesn't make sense to me. 

Can anyone please give me some first hand advice based on a breeder they know have worked with or have friends who have worked with them??

Much much appreciated.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

give the colors you're looking for i'm of no help what so ever. All the breeders for DDR/czech lines i'm researching tend to have sables. I'm not a fan of the classic black and tans/reds. Sables are my heart. 

As far as the broker (as thats how it sounds to me) a cashiers check means you have the money in your account for the deposit. There are very few people who would accept a personal check from anyone anymore except for when you pay your bills. If i'm putting a deposit on something, i either do a cashiers check or a money order and try to deliver it in person and ask for a copy with a date it was received and by whom it was received. Plus the cashier's check has to be printed at the bank and made out there to who it is going to. dont be put off. They have a business to run and cant afford to either be skipped out of a payment or wait around for a check to clear that may or may not clear. You could even make a copy of the cashier's check and on the copy write the date in which it was mailed off. Just some ideas. 

I wish you luck in your search and wish i could have been more help with breeder recs.


----------



## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

You can also send a cashiers check via certified mail and take a copy of the check before you mail it. This way you have record of it and can prove that you gave the breeder a deposit. Also, ask for a receipt for the deposit.

When you want a puppy from a particular litter and you want the breeder to be sure you get one, you are asking him to not sell that puppy to someone else, which could mean a loss of another puppy buyer if YOU renig on your end. A deposit is totally fair for you to ask the breeder to hold a puppy for you.

One thing to do in your research is to find people who have shepherds and see which ones you like. You might go to a local club - maybe a working dog club if you are looking for a German line dog. Watch the dogs in action, talk to the owners, see if their dogs are healthy, if they liked their breeder and especially ask them the pros and cons about their dog. They may say that their dog didn't have enough prey drive for what they wanted, or maybe had too much prey drive to live with. Whatever they tell you will give you information about the characteristics you are looking for. 

I would also suggest that you visit a ton of litters and breeder and ask to see the parents. The more you see, the more you know what you want and what you are looking for, then you will more easily find a breeder that produces what you want, or the lines you happen to like.

I would also suggest that color not be your highest priority. That is the LAST thing on my list. I want health guarantees for hips and elbows (OFA, A Stamps, or PennHip evaluations) on the parents. I would like to also see cardio evaluations (especially for genetic issues like subaortic stenosis) and CERF (Canine Eye Registry Foundation) on the parents. I like to see some sort of working titles on the parents, although I personally am not married to SchH titles as many folks are. There are so many other titles that give you clues about the parents' ability to learn and work for their owner, as well as their temperament. It also tells you about the commitment the breeder has to breeding their dogs.

While health is imperative to me, I also want excellent temperament. I know what I like in temperament because I have owned and trained many many of my own, but also literally thousands of other people's dogs. Who cares what color the dog is if he is a spook, or fear aggressive or so dominant that I cannot handle him/her? Who care what color he is if I can't live with him because he is so high drive that he destroys my house and causes thousands of dollars in damage?

Its work to find a line of dog you like. And work to find a breeder that has breeding goals you like, then has the ethics to do the right things. Take your time and go see lots and lots of litters and dogs! 

Good luck to you on your search!

Fran


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Personally, I dislike doing business, especially pet business, with someone who is pushing for my money now right now. Do not give anyone a deposit until & unless you're absolutely certain you want to do business with them. IF you lose a chance on this litter or that another will come along.

I thought West German & DDR WL GSD were rarely, if ever, black & red or black & tan. Are you thinking of WG showlines? Color is personally a low priority with me. I have my preferences but they're mild. IF black & red/tan is important to you, evaluate the lines available, & be very certain the dogs are well suited to you as well as visually appealing.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think maybe you should clarify exactly what you want.
This is a good site to help you understand the different types of GSDs.
Remember that temperament is part of the type to.

Pointing you there "black and red" is, as mentioned the characteristic of the German Showlines and "west german" can refer to west german working or west german showlines, and DDR typically (though I understand not always) is also more seen in the working dogs.

The Illustrated Standard Of The German Shepherd Dog


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Many breeders take personal checks - esp for deposits! Heck, I refuse to take a deposit until the litter is on the ground and take them...I like postal money orders too because I have to pay cash for dog food at an independent warehouse/distributor, and that goes right in my dog food cache! 

If you want "black and red" - then you want the look of a WGR Highline or "showline" - as that is the normal/desired color of that subtype of GSD. There are black and tans, mostly blanket rather than saddle pattern, in working and DDR or Czech lines, but not as commonly as sables.

Lee


----------



## Gsdxo (Apr 3, 2011)

*Thanks*

Thanks for all the responses so far! 

I AM drawn to the black and tam and the black and red but you are right temperament and health trump that. Since it would be a companion dog i would like it to have a laid back temperament. No furniture eating! My last dog was unusually laid back. People called him a 'zen dog' he wouldnt even bother fetching. So I guess I'm looking for a mild mannered dog that likes to play fetch or whatever but is otherwise quite mellow. 

I fell in love with GSD When I met one while visiting my mother- her neighghbor had a sch3 LARGE dog that they used as protection. She got hers imported from germany through an agent and then he was trained by that agent in the states. Of course I spoke with that same agent but since he Makes his money training the dogs and not importing them he wasn't able to help me out. And i wouldn't mind having him train the pup if I could afford it! 

Maybe its irrational but I fell in love with that dog and couldn't get him out of my mind. I arranged 'play dates' with him to see if this was the rightnbreed for me. He was very mellow. He basically liked tone in the room with me and his owner but would lay on his bed and play with a chew toy. He accepted affection and was very sweet even though I know he was capable of attack if given the command. This was a east German I believe. - this was several years ago when my other dog was still alive so all that research I was doing was in preparation for the future. My dog passed two years ago and it took me this long to be ready for another one but all along I knew my next dog would be GSD. Ive since lost the contact info from my moms neighbor i couldn't find out now exactly what type he was. 

So i hope this is enough info. I shouldnt have led with the physical characteristics because are right. If the dog is a nut bag or unhealthy it doesn't matter what he looks like. 

Basically a mellow dog would be great who likes long walks is chill at home likes to play outside and would enjoy getting trained because i think that would be a great way to bond with him.

Thanks again you guys are great!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Glen Head, NY | Joey









http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/19132742


----------



## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

It depends on how much tan/red you want. 

There are black and red/tan DDR and working lines out there... they just might have more black than tan!



















(a little bit of red mud on this one!)


----------



## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Gsdxo said:


> Basically a mellow dog would be great who likes long walks is chill at home likes to play outside and would enjoy getting trained because i think that would be a great way to bond with him.
> 
> Thanks again you guys are great!


I think you would find a dog you would like among the German conformation/show lines, based on this description. If you're not set on a puppy, rescue is a fantastic option for you. There are a lot of really nice dogs in rescue and you could be sure to get the temperament you're looking for.


----------



## Gsdxo (Apr 3, 2011)

*Puppy*

Ha I actually saw that gsd on petfinder and was cosidering it but my main reasons for wanting a pup is 1. I've always adopted adult dogs from shelters and I just once want to get to have the joy (and work) of a pup. 2. I feel like the dog will bond better with me if I get it as pup not adult. 

Also I'm on an iPad so wasn't able to go back and edit my posts for sone reason I see now it auto corrected some typos into words I hadn't intended. I just wanted to stress that the reason I want a gsd is because I am so impressed by the loyalty and intelligence they exhibit. And think it would be the perfect breed for my lifestyle.


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

just want to note that getting a puppy means that you'll have to be super vigilant to avoid the furniture chewing lol


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Gsdxo said:


> Thanks for all the responses so far!
> 
> I AM drawn to the black and tam and the black and red but you are right temperament and health trump that. Since it would be a companion dog i would like it to have a laid back temperament. No furniture eating! My last dog was unusually laid back. People called him a 'zen dog' he wouldnt even bother fetching. So I guess I'm looking for a mild mannered dog that likes to play fetch or whatever but is otherwise quite mellow.
> 
> ...


 
Your description is not typical nor correct for a GSD. Are you sure you don't want a golden retriever ? I would suggest you go to a rescue and find the dog with that kind of behaviour already actualized. There were two striking looking dogs offered for you to think about. 
right ? wrong?
Carmen
http:/www.carmspack.com


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

A young, mellow GSD?? Those exist?

Seems like a senior GSD would be a little more your speed if that's what you're looking for.


----------



## Gsdxo (Apr 3, 2011)

Carmen actually your litter sounds like exactly what Im looking for (are any still available?):

"Special litter designed to bring some old qualities back . Good solid , sensible , thinking dogs , with all the ability to get to work yet be calm and relaxed when not required , a pleasure to be around , no issues , no hyper activity, not "hot and reactive". Loyal and trustworthy , willing to work, quick to learn. Just what everyone expects from the German Shepherd . "


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I have a feeling that Carmen's pups are not mellow dogs that are content to lay on their bed and chew bones. At least not for the first three years or so.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

"yet be calm and relaxed *when required*" means a dog with what is called an "off switch"

These are working dogs and it would be torture to not work them, be it at some true working endeavor or dog sport. Walks at our human pace are not of much value (JMO). There are limits on how long a dog can stay "off" - it just means they are not constantly pacing and pushing you like a malinois or some of the dogs that are constantly pushing at you for attention.


----------



## Gsdxo (Apr 3, 2011)

thanks everybody. it seems that you people may be right and I will explore other breeds that may be more appropriate for my lifestyle


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Puppies do come in shelters =) Carmen breeds working line dogs and are not supposed to be complete house dogs and laid back.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the answer is yes I do have pups , and yes they are not hectic , not frantic, not obsessive , don't bark at the moon , are not chewing on things or digging , are responsive , have strong nerves and have travelled far and wide and never miss a a beat , but they sure are not lumps on a couch that don't even retrieve. When we head to the barn there is one that will self load onto the treadmill and start running.
Another will grab the schutzhund dumbell and will prance around with it and come and push it into you hard. Another is lighting fast and will keep her booty , but taunt you with it. If we play hide games I can sit with a magazine and they will search the entire two levels of a 30 x 50 cinder block barn till they find whatever I hid. I have let the dogs be uninhibited . They will launch themselves at you , whack you between the shoulder blades, hold onto the back of your collar and drop weight. Very strong dogs. Manners and shaping behaviours can be done at any time. Right now they are kept versatile . When on lead and out at the shops and in town on the sidewalks anyone can see the doggy and they calmly stand there , take the pats and attention in a ho hum way and then continue with a spring and energy in their stop. Lots and lots of retrieve and ball play . Lots of desire to hunt and search -- not initiated by a visual throw -- not a retrieval exercise. 
I don't think that this is what you were looking for . They can be and are calm when not required but they do need to be required , they do need some active participation . 
The dog you described sounded pretty lethargic and lifeless for a GSD. Can they be found -- sure they can -- I have been a guest in a home where the dog lay on the couch and didn't even get up to announce us knocking at the door. The most it did was to lift its head and follow our movement from the front door entry through the family room and into the kitchen. 
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


----------



## ozshepherd (Mar 26, 2011)

I think it is sad that you have been made feel that a German shepherd dog is not for you.
I have always had shepherds and no....I dont do schutzhund or obedience or agility or whatever else some people seem to think must be done with them. All our shepherds have been pets on the farm content to live a quiet life and pretty much fit your description...wonderful companions. Just becasue you are not "passionate" about all these other things does not mean you need to find a golden retriever (how condescending) Don't give up on your dream....GSD are truly the most wonderful breed of dog in the world and it would be a real shame if you are put off by the more 
"passionate" GSD owners.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

ozshepherd said:


> I think it is sad that you have been made feel that a German shepherd dog is not for you..


I'm not. 

One of the biggest reasons people give when getting rid of a young GSD is "He needs room to run" _Uh, no he doesn't, he needs YOU to get off the couch and do something with him besides walk him once a day._ Or "We just can't give him the attention and exercise he needs." This is NOT the breed for everyone, and it's certainly not the breed for someone who can't give a lot of exercise and mental stimulation, especially during the first couple of years. Someone who wants a dog to lay on the floor and be mellow should look into another breed or an older adult German Shepherd.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

many people want the GSD to be a Steiff plush toy.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The German Shepherd is NOT for everyone, if what you describe you want is not typical of what a German Shepherd should be.....then good for you in recognizing that and moving on to something more suitable. Let's not CHANGE the breed to suit some consumers...instead let's look for consumers that want to maintain the breed.


----------



## FredD (Jul 5, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> The German Shepherd is NOT for everyone, if what you describe you want is not typical of what a German Shepherd should be.....then good for you in recognizing that and moving on to something more suitable. Let's not CHANGE the breed to suit some consumers...instead let's look for consumers that want to maintain the breed.


Very well said, Cliff....


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Mellower puppies are known to happen even in working lines. I have a friend who's dog comes from somewhere in NY (name is escaping me) DDR from Grafental lines which are really quite nice. 

If you're still interested send me a PM and I will find out the breeders info.

My DDR boy is wonderful in the house. Always has been, settles in nice, barely chewed on anything and was out of his crate except to eat by the time he was 5 months old. Although I would NEVER call him mellow. He's the Buff Beast. (and he's black and red)


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Don't get discouraged! What you are describing is NOT typical for a GSD until they are well into maturity (4-5 maybe...even later for some...even others NEVER!). Puppies are not going to give you what you want, unfortunately. Not many breeds will unless you go with something super lazy.

As fun as it would be to get a puppy...if you want a mellow dog that only needs a walk a day...consider a slightly older adult!

Even if a breeder thinks they have a pretty laid back puppy who isn't going to need a huge outlet, things might change in 3 months. Definitely think about your lifestyle and what you HONESTLY can handle for YEARS. Puppies are NOT for everyone--even if they melt at puppy breath within a 100 yards.


----------



## bboylayz (Sep 7, 2010)

Gsdxo said:


> thanks everybody. it seems that you people may be right and I will explore other breeds that may be more appropriate for my lifestyle


Don't be so quick to run off! Don't be discouraged. GSDs are known for their versatility. People here are absolutely correct, GSDs ARE working dogs and they do need a job. Having a job makes them happy. However, the type of job doesn't have to be Schutzhund, herding, or service dog work. Just keep them physically AND mentally stimulated (some people say this is just as or even more important than physically stimulated). So go on walks with them but make sure you play ball to kill some energy. Do lots and lots of obedience training (this they would see as a game/their job). Teach him or her new things everyday. Some lines TEND to be more mellow than others. Just find a great breeder and make sure you go and meet the parents multiple times and interact with the pups when possible. See which ones are not overactive but not entirely inactive either.

Everyone that I've talked to has said that after about 2 years (puppyhood) their dogs mellow out a lot and if they are kept in the house with the family, are more than happy to just chill out when everyone else is chilling out. And when its time to play they play hard!

Check out the famous Kaine:






He's happy to learn new things, play, and hang out with people, young and old. It sounds like you don't want a completely boring dog. So I still think a GSD may still be right for you. As long as you are willing to put in the extra effort it takes to give him a "job" and keep him sharp, you will be rewarded with the unwavering loyalty and love of a GSD.


----------

