# Working vs. Show line for a "family dog"



## Cassi

Hi all!

I've been reading through various threads but can't find an answer to my specific question. I'm wondering which lines would best suite me and my family.

We're a family of four. It's going to be a few years until we get our GSD, so our children will be around 3 and 5. I'm a stay at home mom and my husband also stays home. We do not see this changing anytime soon. Our normal day is usually spent playing in and outside with our kids, going on walks and running the weekly grocery errands or the occasional appointment. We live on a 5 acre property with our "yard" fenced off. With kids as young as ours, though we can definitely handle a puppy, which lines should we be more interested in as far as temperament goes? 

My ideal pup would love to be involved and play with all of us but wouldn't mind doing his own thing as times, though my mother in laws GSD was attached to her at the hip and I just loved it. I'm super into wanting to do obedience but I'm not interested in competing. We live in the middle of no where so the "intimidating" look of a GSD is great but he does not need to protect us.

This is what I can think of right now. Bottom line is we have no personal preference, we just want a fantastic dog that will fit into our life style and family. 

Thank you in advance! 

Cassi


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## stepkau

Hi Cassi,
I am getting very close to my first GSD for my family. Children 3 & 6.. Ultimately I realized that I was looking for the right breeder vs. the right puppy. There are some people on this forum who will help you find good breeders. There are also years and years of posts that you can search to find "trends" of recommendations in your area. I can't make a recommendation for SL vs WL but I can tell you I'm going with a German Working Line dog from the right breeder.


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## onyx'girl

Get out and watch the dogs in training or trialing. You can chat with handlers and maybe even breeders. I wouldn't settle on one line until you actually meet and see the dogs with your own eyes . 

We all have our preferences and you can find a good companion family pet from any line, as long as you go with a breeder that knows what they are doing. 

Another option is getting a rescue with the temperament already tested. That can be a challenge in certain areas, other areas are overwhelmed with the breed in shelters/rescue. California especially.


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## yuriy

OP, I think you're already on the right track with considering temperament as one of the primary factors.

*stepkau*'s advice is spot on. You can have an excellent dog from either a working or show line, but you need to find a good breeder that'll put effort into matching you with the right pup. A show-line dog with solid temperament may be easier to manage due to the lower drive, but solid temperament is key there. Similarly, a lower drive working-line may work well, too.


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## WateryTart

yuriy said:


> OP, I think you're already on the right track with considering temperament as one of the primary factors.
> 
> *stepkau*'s advice is spot on. You can have an excellent dog from either a working or show line, but you need to find a good breeder that'll put effort into matching you with the right pup. A show-line dog with solid temperament may be easier to manage due to the lower drive, but solid temperament is key there. Similarly, a lower drive working-line may work well, too.


I agree with this. I went show line, but I felt that was a more appropriate amount of dog for my experience level, and I found the right breeder in show lines. An intelligent, careful breeder can match you with the right pup (or help you find one if it isn't one of theirs).


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## zyppi

stepkau said:


> Hi Cassi,
> the right breeder vs. the right puppy. .


That's the ticket! Good responsible breeder will tell you if one of their pups is right for you.

Sounds like you have time to do research.

Good luck


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## Cassi

Thank you everyone for your input!  

Makes total sense to me and sounds like a plan!


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## SuperG

I'd wager....whatever line of GSD you get....if you hold true to this comment of yours..."*I'm super into wanting to do obedience*"....your experience will be so much better than if you fail to live up to those words....

SuperG


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## selzer

Whichever you choose, plan on training, plan on taking your pup to classes, for most of the first year or two. Too many people take their new pup to puppy classes, but then the dog is doing fine, and they let it go. The next you year, they have a 20 month old pup that is out of control.

For a new owner, new dog, a good schedule would be something like:

12-18 weeks: puppy classes
20-26 weeks: basic household manners/obedience
7-9 months: beginning agility, advanced obedience, or rally
10-12 months: CGC, advanced obedience, or rally
13-15 months: nosework, or conformation, or herding
16-18 months: agility, flyball, tracking or herding.

Think of it as puppy night out. It should be fun for you and the puppy. 

A good trainer can see things in how we are responding to the dog and the dog is responding to us that we cannot see, they can offer suggestions to improve our technique, and if something isn't working they should be able to provide alternatives. And they provide other people and their dogs to be worked around, so that ours is socialized to the fact that people and dogs exist in the world and are not to be interfered with.

P.S. I'd choose German Show Lines, but then, I am biased.


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## carsona246

I'll give you some clarification on what "a lot of dog" means that I never understood until I got a working line GSD. I love my GSD, and I have a great breeder who did a wonderful dog picking out my dog. But whenever I read "a lot of dog" I always assumed that meant the dog would be difficult to train, or would require more of a stern hand. My dog is super goofy and loves to please me, but he never stops moving. What never clicked for me when people talk about working line dogs being "a lot of dog" what they really mean is that they always want to play, and almost always have energy(always). I feel like I was prepared for the training portion of owning my dog, but I wasn't expecting the constant energy, and always wanting to play. 
That being said, I wouldn't change out my dog for any other dog, he is the sweetest goofiest dog, but he's a full time job and he's already a year old. May be a bit much for a family dog, but absolutely doable. I just think it helps to prepare yourself for the constant energy.


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## wolfy dog

A good WL dog has an off button. You can make them hyper by always working with them. I have taught mine that down time is part of their lives too and it worked well. But, boy, if we work together, it is intense!


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## familydag5

Our family dog is a WGWL, he is certainly a lot of dog in that he has a big presence in the house and requires daily physical and mental exercise but he certainly has an off switch and as an active family he is our ideal companion. As others have said, find a breeder that can match you with an appropriate puppy and who has a history of breeding dogs that do well with small children.


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## Jenny720

A recommended breeder is a must and Im sure you would no problem finding that here as someone has suggested best to go to the shows and meet the dogs in person is the only way to see what you would be best fit. We have kids 13 and 11 and Max our german shepherd keeps right up with the kids. He has to be in the middle of all their excitement. When our kids friends come over i think max thinks they are there to see him. Max is american show line he is 15 months now. He is very sweet boy and has a sweet demeanor and goofy at the same time he is very aware of his surroundings and great watch dog and so in tune to everything. Sooomuch energy and wants to play all day and he would love to train and eat training treats all day. He needs to be kept busy but can handle down time well. Max is overly friendly to people we invite in the house and more reserved to others we meet out and about he will say hi but that is about it. We had a german shepherd many years ago and wanted another as we fell in love with the breed.We were researching breeds and wanted to do obedience work and tracking-not for competition but for fun. This is the first time we had a german shepherd puppy and knew they were going to be a lot of work. Indeed they are! Its what you put into to them is what you get back. Lots of socialization, obedience class, training and attention are a must! They make you learn so much.


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## Cassi

Definitely to the classes more than just the initial puppy and obedience classes. The pup will be my hobby, I guess you could say. My husband has his cars, I'll have my dog  . And of course everyone will be involved to a point. 

Is there any certain "right" time to find breeders and/or speak with them? I don't want to have my mind set on either type, unless I have to. Is it better to decide which before hand? I'm hoping to find a local breeder (Tampa/Sarasota area) but I have no qualms with having a pup shipped for the right breeder and puppy for me and my family.


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## gaia_bear

I don't think there's a right time to find the breeder, you'll know you have found your breeder after establishing a relationship with them. I spoke with my breeders for over a year before I brought Cuervo home.

I'm one of those people that have a working line who is "a lot of dog" but he's what I asked for. He still isn't the best of house dog and we're still looking for his off switch but he's great with my young son. 

The most important thing is to be very honest with your breeder as to what you are looking for and any concerns you may have with introducing a dog into your lifestyle.


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## Steve Strom

If you aren't ready for one now, I wouldn't go meet any dogs or breeders with current litters of puppies. They're always pretty tempting. I think anytime would be fine to go out and meet people and breeders doing things with their dogs though. Show's, trials, any venue.


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## stepkau

Cassi said:


> Is there any certain "right" time to find breeders and/or speak with them? I don't want to have my mind set on either type, unless I have to. Is it better to decide which before hand?


Hi Cassi, I have talked with a few breeders suggested here. They ALL have been fabulous to talk with as they are passionate about GSD's. Some seemed willing to talk forever about the breed.  Obviously be respectful of their time but it's normal to ask questions and verify the breeder is the right one. At this point I'm getting my kids checked for dog allergies and then making my final decision on a breeder by the end Feb. From there I'll make a deposit and work with a single breeder on the right litter/puppy which means I'll take a puppy from this litter, or the next litter if there isn't a great match. So I could have a puppy from a litter in Feb, or sometime later this year. Can't say this is the perfect way to go about things but I want to put my breeder in a position so they can take their time matching us up with the right puppy as this is the most important puppy I will ever bring into my home. (children ages 3 & 6)..


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## Mrs.P

Cassi said:


> I'm hoping to find a local breeder (Tampa/Sarasota area) but I have no qualms with having a pup shipped for the right breeder and puppy for me and my family.


 I am in central Florida there are many many training groups -IPO/SchH, PSA, AKC sports, dock diving, barnhunt ect that utilize a variety of working breeds that I can recommend to check out if you're interested. 

There are plenty of people, here in Florida, breeding German Shepherd dogs --all lines and I have yet(I hope this changes) to see a program that I would choose to support -purchase a puppy from. Plenty of better breeding programs out there IMO -I wouldn't limit yourself to just Florida.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Agree with GaiaBear. That off switch can be tricky depending on the dog and humans involved. 

IMHO and from my experience the best thing to do is visit different venues, sport and show, as Steve suggests. 

Think about what do YOU want to do with the dog. The beauty (and curse to some) is there's a 'flavor' of GSD for every lifestyle. 

The only caution is, make sure whichever line/breeder you go with the breeder is active with their dogs, competing, showing/titling and have pups out in the world working/doing what you hope to do in the homes of other families. This is the best way to stack odds in your favor of getting the kind of dog you hope for.

If you have to work more hours will you be able and willing to get up early to exercise a dog that has more energy and drive? If you can't or don't want to do that, that's o.k. too, but be realistic about what YOU can and want to do with a dog.

That will help you pare down the different lines and breeders.

Also, this board leans (talking SL vs WL) to working lines. Sure there are some general truths that apply to the lines, there is also some overlap between them, moderate temperament /drive WLs and moderate drive SLs with nice conformation. 

You may know this already, but just in case you don't, the WLs and SLs are all prone to the same health issues. There is no genetic health reason to pick one line over the other.

At the end of the day I ended up with another West German Showline. Will he be a top IPO dog? Nope, that's not what I was looking for either. Is my WL/Mali owning trainer happy with his drives for IPO so far, yup. He's not lazy, when he's on, he's on. Now that he's getting a bit older he's getting pushier and needing more activity before I can get him into the lay by the fire chew the bone mode. 

BUT...generally, what it takes to get that 'off' switch clicked for him takes less time and work on my part then say my trainer's dogs or my friends who have WLs that I know, see and have even kept personally over the last few years now. This turned out to be a good thing as I've had some health problems that slowed me down. I'm super happy with my pup, my breeder picked the right one for me, not too much, not too little.  I don't have the time, money or aspiration to run with the _big dogs_  in IPO so this pup is going to a great dog for me to learn and have fun with. He's also very forgiving of me being such a clutz and slow too. When I've had the chance to handle WLs I found my slowness caused them to check out faster and/or I could almost hear a heavy sigh, "stupid slow human c'mon!". LOL! 

Anyhow. SLs can be a great option too!


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## WateryTart

Gwenhwyfair said:


> this pup is going to a great dog for me to learn and have fun with. He's also very forgiving of me being such a clutz and slow too. When I've had the chance to handle WLs I found my slowness caused them to check out faster and/or I could almost hear a heavy sigh, "stupid slow human c'mon!". LOL!


Snipped to just the piece that jumped out at me.

I don't have any firsthand experience with WL dogs or IPO, but this is most certainly true of my SL dog in obedience. I'm clumsy and uncoordinated. Footwork takes a bit for me to figure out; my brain knows what my feet are supposed to do, but execution is a different story. My dog is a really good dog for a beginning handler to learn on: She picks up on things quickly, but she's forgiving if I don't. She's a little more laidback in her approach. I was telling another member over PM that this isn't your 4.0 AP student; this is your 3.8 student who is pleased at doing well but it isn't the end of the world if it isn't perfect.


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## wolfstraum

You can get a great companion dog from either type. With a working line, you need to be sure the breeder is breeding balanced dogs with "off switches"....I had a litter last year that had pups from extreme drive to low drive....working pups to a pup that was perfect for a family with a 3 year old and an infant....not mouthy, not crazy, playful and protective, but much more suitable for a family dog than a competition dog...so it is doable to find one from working lines!

Lee


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## Gwenhwyfair

Thank you for sharing this! A lot of the times it's not what the dog can do but what we are capable of.

If I were a bit younger and faster things might be different. Some people just seem to have knack, the timing, speed and consistency right away too. 

Then people ( like us) have to work at it and develop the skills over time.

Sometimes I feel bad about it, but what can I do? Just keep plugging away. 






WateryTart said:


> Snipped to just the piece that jumped out at me.
> 
> I don't have any firsthand experience with WL dogs or IPO, but this is most certainly true of my SL dog in obedience. I'm clumsy and uncoordinated. Footwork takes a bit for me to figure out; my brain knows what my feet are supposed to do, but execution is a different story. My dog is a really good dog for a beginning handler to learn on: She picks up on things quickly, but she's forgiving if I don't. She's a little more laidback in her approach. I was telling another member over PM that this isn't your 4.0 AP student; this is your 3.8 student who is pleased at doing well but it isn't the end of the world if it isn't perfect.


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## WateryTart

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Thank you for sharing this! A lot of the times it's not what the dog can do but what we are capable of.
> 
> If I were a bit younger and faster things might be different. Some people just seem to have knack, the timing, speed and consistency right away too.
> 
> Then people ( like us) have to work at it and develop the skills over time.
> 
> Sometimes I feel bad about it, but what can I do? Just keep plugging away.


I'm even relatively young! I'm just not that graceful.  Aptitude for athletics or dance passed me by, and while that doesn't matter to me 98% of the time, I know my dog's ring work would be better if mine was.

Still - it only goes to show (to me, anyway) what a good dog she is to learn with. She can still get the hang of something and when I get to a point where my footwork is cleaned up, she follows.


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## Cassi

I'm overwhelmed with all the feedback. Thank you all, really! I'm feeling quite confident right now.  




Mrs.P said:


> I am in central Florida there are many many training groups -IPO/SchH, PSA, AKC sports, dock diving, barnhunt ect that utilize a variety of working breeds that I can recommend to check out if you're interested.
> 
> There are plenty of people, here in Florida, breeding German Shepherd dogs --all lines and I have yet(I hope this changes) to see a program that I would choose to support -purchase a puppy from. Plenty of better breeding programs out there IMO -I wouldn't limit yourself to just Florida.


Absolutely! I'd love to check it out. IPO peaks my interest, the more I'm hearing about it.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Cassi said:


> I'm overwhelmed with all the feedback. Thank you all, really! I'm feeling quite confident right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely! I'd love to check it out. IPO peaks my interest, the more I'm hearing about it.


:thumbup: for Mrs. P helping you in Florida. Great resource. If you have a chance make sure to ask her about her dog, Enzo too.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Don't want to go too far off topic but there's a reason I'm not a ballerina. :laugh:




WateryTart said:


> I'm even relatively young! I'm just not that graceful.  Aptitude for athletics or dance passed me by, and while that doesn't matter to me 98% of the time, I know my dog's ring work would be better if mine was.
> 
> Still - it only goes to show (to me, anyway) what a good dog she is to learn with. She can still get the hang of something and when I get to a point where my footwork is cleaned up, she follows.


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## Mrs.P

Cassi said:


> I'm overwhelmed with all the feedback. Thank you all, really! I'm feeling quite confident right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely! I'd love to check it out. IPO peaks my interest, the more I'm hearing about it.


Sent a long PM


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## Mrs.P

Gwenhwyfair said:


> :thumbup: for Mrs. P helping you in Florida. Great resource. If you have a chance make sure to ask her about her dog, Enzo too.


hehehe


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## Ares1

Really? I think you're reading into this a bit too much there pal. At the end of the day a gsd is a gsd. Just train the dog how u want it to be.


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## gaia_bear

Ares1 said:


> Really? I think you're reading into this a bit too much there pal. At the end of the day a gsd is a gsd. Just train the dog how u want it to be.


There are way more variables than training the dog how you want it to be...but that's a different thread.


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## uhsa

stepkau said:


> Hi Cassi,
> I am getting very close to my first GSD for my family. Children 3 & 6.. Ultimately I realized that I was looking for the right breeder vs. the right puppy. There are some people on this forum who will help you find good breeders. There are also years and years of posts that you can search to find "trends" of recommendations in your area. I can't make a recommendation for SL vs WL but I can tell you I'm going with a German Working Line dog from the right breeder.


I am in grayslake - would love some input from you. SO VERY confused about SL vs WL and the right breeder.


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## stepkau

uhsa said:


> I am in grayslake - would love some input from you. SO VERY confused about SL vs WL and the right breeder.


sending you a Private Message with my phone number.. Please feel free to call me.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Best advice I ever got on this forum, go see the dogs for yourself.

Go to some shows AKC and SV if you can. Visit an IPO club. Watch the dogs, talk with the owners, pay close attention to 'idle chit chat' too.

I learned a lot by just hanging out and listening.

Generally when people make a choice they lock down on it being the right choice for everybody, that's not true.

It's definitely worth the time invested. Good luck with your puppy hunt. 



uhsa said:


> I am in grayslake - would love some input from you. SO VERY confused about SL vs WL and the right breeder.


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## Jax08

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Best advice I ever got on this forum, go see the dogs for yourself.
> 
> Go to some shows AKC and SV if you can. Visit an IPO club. Watch the dogs, talk with the owners, pay close attention to 'idle chit chat' too.
> 
> I learned a lot by just hanging out and listening.
> 
> Generally when people make a choice they lock down on it being the right choice for everybody, that's not true.
> 
> It's definitely worth the time invested. Good luck with your puppy hunt.


^^^^ THIS.

Over and over and over again.


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## Agaribay805

Im not a big fan of show lines. I don't like backs or their hind legs. They looked deformed to me. Working lines are a lot to handle but IMO are more easily trainable. Its hard to explain. They are harder dogs because they test you a bit more, they have more energy and they tend to have higher prey drive, etc.. But they respond to training so fast! Leash corrections are like magic. I recommend that you find the right trainer before you bring your puppy home. We had a really hard time finding just the right one but once we did, our puppy completely switched into such a dream puppy! Also training is expensive but necessary. We paid $600 for 4 hours worth of training. Sounds nuts but it was the best money every spent. We have a 2 year old and a 6 year old in the house and I needed an obedient puppy quickly. Also puppies and young children are REALLY tough! People told me to wait and I was so stubborn, I needed to have my puppy now. My 6 year old and our pup are great together. I never leave my toddler and our pup together unless I'm within arms reach. So basically Im supervising those two around the clock. I guess it'll be like this until our puppy is fully mature or until I can trust out toddler to interact properly with the dog. Im thinking it'll be a couple years. Anyways all in all our puppy is amazing and we love her!


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## selzer

I wonder how many people who know a good trainer, ask them for recommendations for a breeder. Good trainers are often in the loop of various dog clubs, and oftentimes they work with several dogs from the same breeder. If I was in the market for a good dog, I would probably give my trainer a call. If I wanted to know what lines she thinks best for me, well, I don't know, it seems we are a bit prejudice in this area: I think German show lines can be excellent pets, can work, make good therapy dogs, make good service dogs, have good structure, and are beautiful as well. I find them easy to train, very biddable, and they can manage most of the temperaments of potential GSD owners -- they aren't necessarily going to walk all over a wimpy owner, aren't going to go to pieces with a drill-Sargent owner either, they are happy to be lazy with the lazy owner, and are Johnny on the spot for the cracker jack owners. 

I pick German Show Lines. And if a trainer is familiar with many of the lines, they will still probably have a favorite that fits them, and so, not sure if they are the best to go to for figuring out which lines are best for you.


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