# How to stop overly submissive dog?



## kctufto

We just adopted a 5 year old male german shepherd three weeks ago. His previous owner claims he never did any of this behavior with them. He is showing overly submissive behavior with both my husband and I but more with my husband. He crouches all the way down to the ground, adverts his eye contact, and then usually begins peeing. It does not matter if it is when we first get home or if we have been hanging out in the house together all day. We have been looking up the submissive urination on websites and realize that he cannot help it. We took him to the vet and he started the antibiotics yesterday to try and help maybe clear up any debris in his bladder. The crouching and scared look is getting worse. I am hoping the peeing begins to become less and less with the help of the antibiotics. How do we get Diesel to build his confidence and not do the crouching thing and/or the peeing thing. I cannot have pee all of the house or allow him to come with us anywhere, because peeing consistently in someone else's house is not acceptable for us. Does anyone have any good ideas for us to try? Please!!!!


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## Stevenzachsmom

Ignore him, when you enter your house. No eye contact whatsoever. Go about your business. Never, never, never yell at him for submissive peeing. It will only make matters worse. Take him for long walks. Build a bond with him. Gain his trust.

Three weeks is not a very long time at all. He is still adjusting. Do you crate him? If not, you should. It will be his safe place. Do not let him out immediately upon arriving home. Just give him some time and lots of love.


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## msvette2u

We've had dogs like this in rescue.

What we tell people is to keep the dog on a leash.
IGNORE the dog, while doing this.

So dog doesn't exist, but simply start gently drawing the dog up to his feet and when he's up on all fours, suddenly, "THERE is the dog!" Hi, dog, nothing overly demonstrative, but definitely treats, yummy treats, and petting once he's on all 4s.

So you may want to start this outside. IGNORE every sign of cowering, belly-crawling, piddling, etc... Ignore completely!

Only pay attention to the dog when he's up and on all 4s and not cowering.

To do this you'll need a leash - I wish I had a vid to show you but I don't. Maybe I'll try to take one of a shy dog we have here.

Doing this consistently has helped the dogs and their adopters. 

Also letting the dog out OFTEN - every hour or so - take out potty and that'll help control the piddling, well, he'll still do it but it won't be a whole bladder full.


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## kctufto

If you could post a video, that would be amazing! We are just getting so frustrated because this was not supposed to be a super stressful thing when we adopted him. He does have a crate and goes in it when we are gone and sometimes in the evening.


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## msvette2u

I'd recommend some "Mind Games" too. 

Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong

TONS of submissive pee links here - 
Can We Help You Keep Your Pet? Submissive Urination

And I'll try to work on the vid for you 

Often time, a VERY enticing treat like tiny bits of cooked hot dog, will distract a dog so that peeing is the last thing on his mind (not that the peeing is something he can control). 
And so as soon as you get the dog up, you shove your hand with the bits of hot dog in it, into his mouth, and YUM, good dog! As long as he's not peeing.

Thing is - he's learned this and it's embedded behavior so it's going to be tough. Also it's difficult as humans to deal with the piddle so we get disgusted no matter how we try not to be. Even knowing it's not his fault is not helpful at times, I GET THIS. 
Your goal is to ignore EVERY SINGLE incident of submissiveness. If you're working with him and he starts squatting or rolling over, WALK AWAY. Do not pay one bit of attention to this. Only show affection/attention when he's NOT submitting/rolling/squatting.


How I know this, is we had a dog like yours, a very submissive GSD who you just know people smacked because he'd piddle submissively. I knew that because he'd go from cowering, squirt of pee to "Oh my GOD I'm in for it now!!!" 

And we'd ignore it, clean it up with no ado and he gradually got better but we still had to trim his nails on linoleum because he'd piddle every time. 

We also had a Dachshund, came to us at age 6, same way, very sad stuff. These dogs were smacked usually, as puppies, for the training mishap, when it's nothing of the sort.

Anyway - PM me any time to "vent" if you need, I completely understand your issues!


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## Stevenzachsmom

Change is always stressful - for me anyway. LOL! Imagine how stressful it is to the dog. Everything is new and strange. He is still learning. I know it is hard, but try not to be stressed and frustrated. I'm sure you dog feels that. Deep breaths. Try to spend time with him outside, where the submissive peeing doesn't matter. Give him opportunities to succeed and lots of praise.


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## Jack's Dad

Was it a private party that you adopted from?

I think whoever you got it from is full of BS that the dog did not exhibit those behaviors before you got it.

The advice given above is fine but it irritates me that some pass their problems on. They didn't want to deal with it so now you get to.


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## kctufto

Yes, it was a private party. His owner is in the army and got deployed so Diesel has been living with his owner's mother and her two dogs (a little one and a husky). And now is onto us!


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## kctufto

Here is another thing that I don't understand exactly...
So, Diesel rarely crouches and pees for me but will do it with my husband even if they are playing or he is sitting right next to Diesel. I am the one more willing to try anything right now with different techniques and tricks. How do I get Diesel to a.) get praised from me for doing the right thing and then b.) have it carry over for my husband?


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## msvette2u

Hubby will have to work with him.
Again, only outside and after you've done things to know how it goes and how to show hubby.

I could be off here, but sounds as if the previous owner of this dog ignored submission signs and physically disciplined anyway.

Puppies, if treated right and submission signs are respected (don't scold puppy when it's in submission mode) will generally outgrow this behavior.

And if former owner is a guy, then this could explain why hubby is having a tougher time.


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## qbchottu

msvette2u: I agree with you. I think the dog might have been mistreated or severely disciplined by a male if he tends to shy away from the husband and not the wife as much.

I agree with the other info. Never reinforce or reward his submissive behavior. If a submissive dog starts belly crawling, urinating, hiding, whining...just flat out ignore it. No reinforcement whatsoever for his undesired behaviors. No baby talk, coddling etc. When he stands up, ears go up, stops crawling/whining, then reward him with your attention and affection. This is not a quick process. It will take months, (perhaps even years) for him to improve. The biggest thing is to be patient and continue chugging on. Good luck to you. I wish you the best!


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## Jack's Dad

qbchottu said:


> msvette2u: I agree with you. I think the dog might have been mistreated or severely disciplined by a male if he tends to shy away from the husband and not the wife as much.
> 
> I agree with the other info. Never reinforce or reward his submissive behavior. If a submissive dog starts belly crawling, urinating, hiding, whining...just flat out ignore it. No reinforcement whatsoever for his undesired behaviors. No baby talk, coddling etc. When he stands up, ears go up, stops crawling/whining, then reward him with your attention and affection. This is not a quick process. It will take months, (perhaps even years) for him to improve. The biggest thing is to be patient and continue chugging on. Good luck to you. I wish you the best!


This and the other advice given is very good IMO.

The reason I brought up the previous owner is because the dog is 5 years old and this is probably behavior that has been reinforced for some time.
It won't go away over night.

Good luck with the tips given by others.


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## Sunflowers

Has the vet determined that he has a bladder infection?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

shy-k9s : shy-k9s

Is a great group to start with. 

Karen Pryor Clickertraining | The Leader in Positive Reinforcement Training has some good information on clicker basics. This is a good way to take voice, tone, etc, out of the equation and start to make positive associations with the person. 

I will never forget my gruff, tough, MP WWII vet, NYC Italian dad talking in a high pitched voice to the little lab mix puppy I got from the shelter - because it made the puppy respond positively during a fear period. They were best friends - obviously the puppy did not have years of bad associations, but sometimes we have to look like idiots to help a dog.  

You JUST got him so taking him places and doing things with him are best put off for a while anyway (and yeah, very few people [none] like other people's dogs peeing in their houses!) but you are going to need to be incredibly patient with this dog. Like weeks and months patient, not days patient. But once you see him starting to feel better, gain confidence, and be the dog he was meant to be, you will be rewarded in so many ways. 

If you can find a clicker trainer in your area, I would give that a shot. 

I do ignore the peeing, but work very hard at identifying and rewarding the positive behaviors that occur around it (they are there!) and that shy dog group will hopefully help to find some of them. 

Also - I would much rather work with a dog that is peeing in fear, than one who is biting. Ideally, dogs never need to feel like either option is warranted, but that's not the case here. 

Good luck!


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## Lilie

kctufto said:


> I am the one more willing to try anything right now with different techniques and tricks. How do I get Diesel to a.) get praised from me for doing the right thing and then b.) have it carry over for my husband?


Loads of great advice on this thread for you! One think I'd like to your really think hard on, regarding the reaction between your dog and your husband. Make sure that YOU aren't putting out any vibes that your dog could pick up on when your husband enters the room. You might get a little tense thinking, "oh, great, he's going to see the dog pee again and give me a hard time." I certainly know I would! Try to remain relaxed and give calming signals to your dog. 

If your husband tends to speak in an over exagerated manner, wave his arms, laugh loudly, hollar at the football players on TV, sneeze in an explosive way etc. watch your dog when that happens. Although your husband means no harm, it could be his natural actions that is causing your dog's reactions towards him. 

A small example is, I have a hunting dog. My husband likes for the dog to jump (or 'load') on his lap. I don't care for it. However, I can say 'load' once and the dog complies with me. My husband will say it and the dog ignores him. Thinking outside the box, I watched what happens when the dog does load on my husband's lap. My husband wraps his arms around the dog and rewards it. I don't. I'll reward and might pet him on the head, but I don't wrap my arms around him. The dog is young. He doesn't care to be trapped by my husband's arms. Utilizing this theory, my husband re-trained the dog the 'load' command onto his lap. Never wrapping his arms around the dog. The dog now will comply with the command EVERY time. 

My point is, it very well could be something simple your husband may be doing that is causing your dog the additional stress. Watch the interactions between the two. Watch..really watch how your dog responds to what your husband does.


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## msvette2u

> I will never forget my gruff, tough, MP WWII vet, NYC Italian dad talking in a high pitched voice to the little lab mix puppy I got from the shelter - *because it made the puppy respond positively *during a fear period. They were best friends - obviously the puppy did not have years of bad associations, but sometimes we have to look like idiots to help a dog.


This is extremely important.
I can't tell you how many people totally ignore dog body language. I see it all the time.

If you bend over and look at a dog straight in the eye, it backs up maybe, barks maybe, maybe even growls. ALL of those, in dog language, translate into "I don't like what you're doing! Please back off!" 
And what do people do? Stand there! In the same position!

It is essential, when interacting with a fearful dog especially, to always read _and_ heed their body language and what they are saying! 

Because they are talking loud and clear and you have to listen and modify what you're doing to help them.

I can't tell you how many times I went on a call to go get dogs, or just had to go pick up dogs (as a rescuer) who'd been left behind when people moved. I have literally been on my hands and knees in a playbow (best done without an audience, let me tell you!) to build a relationship quickly with a fearful dog that didn't want to be caught!


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## wolfy dog

Maybe your hubby plays too rough for the dog's comfort level?


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## cliffson1

Remember this is not a puppy so it is not something he is likely to grow out of if still present at 5 years old. Does this dog show a lack of confidence in other times like new places, new people, loud noises, or loud voices. Just curious?


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## stealthq

Want to second having your husband speak in a higher voice - quieter, too if he tends to be on the louder side. 

We had a cocker spaniel when I was younger that submissive peed every time my dad came home, and I can guarantee that he never raised a hand to that dog (even when she peed on his brand-new, custom-made ostrich leather boots ). But, my dad has a very distinctive, low voice and at the time he spoke loudly because of hearing loss and that intimidated the dog.


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## kctufto

Thank you everyone for all of the advice you have to offer! We will take it all! Adam has been using a higher pitched voice in the baby/puppy talk kind of way, it seems to help some. We are also trying the ignoring and have both learned that it is a lot easier to just ignore and walk away or turn away from him than sit there and get frustrated while Diesel pees. The last couple of days, Diesel has started to continue in his crouch but then just hoover over to his kennel and then lay down. Without peeing! I will take that scared army crawl to his safe place over the peeing. I realize the results will take a LOT of time but any small strides of progress makes me at least feel a lot better! To the one, comment about my reaction when Adam gets home. I think I probably do tense up a little because I don't want to have to clean up the pee or have Adam get frustrated with Diesel. I will work on maybe just leaving the room while they have their interaction when he first gets home from work. Sound like a good idea?


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## kctufto

cliffson1 said:


> Remember this is not a puppy so it is not something he is likely to grow out of if still present at 5 years old. Does this dog show a lack of confidence in other times like new places, new people, loud noises, or loud voices. Just curious?


He lacks a lot of confidence all around. There is a small dog that lives next door and barks through the fence and Diesel is not a fan at all. Slowly gets close to it and then the little dog barks and Diesel whimpers and runs away.


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## middleofnowhere

Sounds like a great idea.


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## kctufto

wolfy dog said:


> Maybe your hubby plays too rough for the dog's comfort level?


He has been very gentle with him, so far, they can both agree on fetch as a fun playful thing between the two of them. We are also working on taking walks. Diesel wasn't taking on walks with his previous owner. He is new to the concept but catching on quickly.


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## msvette2u

> . I will work on maybe just leaving the room while they have their interaction when he first gets home from work. Sound like a good idea?


Have your husband just ignore the dog totally, until the excitement wears down.
Then, very calm, and quiet/higher pitched "hey guy, how was your day" or whatever,

Make everything very low key.

ALSO try letting the dog outside 10-15min. before hubby arrives home. That way if things let loose, there's not a whole bladder full of pee.


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## kctufto

Sunflowers said:


> Has the vet determined that he has a bladder infection?


The vet said that he did not have any bacteria but he had all of the other symptoms of a bladder infection (i.e. bright yellow urine, smelled different, and debris in his bladder) Diesel is on 20 days of antibiotics to try and clear up the symptoms a little bit.


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## Magwart

msvette2u said:


> I can't tell you how many times I went on a call to go get dogs, or just had to go pick up dogs (as a rescuer) who'd been left behind when people moved. I have literally been on my hands and knees in a playbow (best done without an audience, let me tell you!) to build a relationship quickly with a fearful dog that didn't want to be caught!


LOL! I just did this at the shelter with a dog that was terrified in her kennel--play bow and wiggle the butt! Using canine body language flat-out _works _with these dogs.

In addition to play bows, I find it helps to try to stand sideways (your ribcage facing the dog) when you are working with or approaching a shy dog. I yawn a lot too--big, exaggerated, ridiculous fake yawns. 

I had a submissive piddler for years, and we managed it with hardly any accidents inside. First, she gave herself away by her ear position when she was in a submissive mood and ready to piddle -- if the ears were down and kind of back, we knew to ignore her. If they were up, she was fine. If the ears told us she was in a mood, our routine was to ignore all the dogs as others have suggested, then calmly walk out to the backyard with the dogs following, and then say "go potty!" -- the submissive piddler would go and relieve herself, her ears would then pop right up (she knew she'd done it in the right spot, so she instantly felt better). THEN we'd greet and praise her for going potty where she was supposed to. The key to managing this is to set them up for success, so that you can praise them and continue building the confidence.

Play some confidence boosting games with your dog (let him win at tug, for example). Any time he does something brave, praise and treat! A positive-method basic OB class may also help, as nothing boosts self confidence quite as much as knowing exactly the right thing to do--it can help their world become predictable and comprehensible in a way that makes it safe. Get your husband involved in that, too.


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## msvette2u

> Using canine body language flat-out works with these dogs.


Do you ever use a little "huff-pant" to break the ice? I love seeing their reactions to that!!


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## Liesje

I would not make assumptions about the dog's past based on these behaviors. I used to own a dog that behaved the exact same way and was never, ever abused, neglected or mistreated in fact she was very carefully and lovingly raised and trained. She is also selective as far as the submissive behavior. She loved me from the moment we met but was terrified of my husband for over three years and he never, ever laid a hand on her or even raised his voice, in contrast he's a very gently, loving person (more so than me!). Now this dog lives with an older couple and guess what...her owner/person is a man! Like Cliff said at this age it may just be who the dog is and not something that can easily be counter conditioned. We spent years with a really great trainer who specializes in dogs with fear and confidence issues and the way the dog reacted to my husband never changed. Three years in she would still hide from him even urinate or poop when she saw him. Normally my husband completely ignored her but if I was gone for any period of time he could not even feed her or take her out to potty. With me the dog was fine, very lively and confident. I put twelve different titles on her and would take her on family vacations and to fireworks shows so this was not a dog that was skittish of her own shadow, just certain people/certain things.

Anyway, I agree with ignoring the dog and also walk around and drop yummy treats without asking the dog to do anything for them. It may not help but it certainly won't hurt.


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## Sunflowers

Magwart said:


> In addition to play bows, I find it helps to try to stand sideways (your ribcage facing the dog) when you are working with or approaching a shy dog. I yawn a lot too--big, exaggerated, ridiculous fake yawns.
> 
> .


I do this to calm Hans when he seems uncertain of something...and then my fake yawns turn into real ones and I can't stop yawning, LOL!:crazy:


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## msvette2u

> terrified of my husband


Curious if she actually peed while doing this or was just shy/submissive?

IME, the ones that carry submissive peeing into adulthood were scolded for the peeing as if it was a housebreaking failure.
This is amazingly common as it's so often misunderstood.


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## Liesje

My dog? She would piddle (not just all out pee all over but submissive pee) and sometimes even poop. She has never been scolded for anything like that and was completely housebroken when I got her. Other than the pee/poop when she was afraid we never had accidents. She has some other odd quirks as well and has been on various medications for it (dog prozac). Got the short end of the stick as far as genetics, certain people and things stimulated a "fight or flight" response and because she was not a fighter she would do the panic pee/poop/flee. The potty issue was not THE issue but just one manifestation and something that could not be targeted and counter conditioned because doing so overlooked the bigger issue (with her brain).


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## cdbellamy

*scaredy cat*

I just have a question!! I got my GTS when she was 5 weeks old. She has been thru obedience training which I keep up with. I work from home so we are together 24/7. She "goes" with me alot for short trips.. 20 minutes or less... But she is very vocal.. but when other dogs come around.. usually small... she becomes very "scaredy cat".. She just turned 1... Should I be alarmed?


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