# prong collars equal AWESOMENESS



## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

So with only an hour of training, my shadow girl knows how to heel, stop, and NOT PULL! Of course more training but gosh im so proud of my baby girl!

So happy with the prong! 

Well she was less distracted, we went out back where theres not much things she can hunt. She struggled at first, whined a couple times, but did amazing. After mastering the sit, when I stopped and mastering "heel", we took out our lil apollo! She got a little distracted but kept her eyes on me, a few times snuck a lil look at apollo, but generally she was watching my steps. Her nose went to the ground I believe 3times but after a lil crank her head was up, she looked way more confident then she has ever looked! When we took apollo out, she was literally by my side the whole time, she tried to sniff him at first but I pulled her back to my side horizontally and she fell right in place 

Could not be more pleased.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Good for you. But that is not the only way. I got the same results with the harness.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Mary Beth said:


> Good for you. But that is not the only way. I got the same results with the harness.


Really? Lots of people say harnesses are not much effective.


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## NWHeather (Oct 29, 2010)

I had fairly good results with the easy walker harness, but the prong collar made a bigger difference with my two.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

NWHeather said:


> I had fairly good results with the easy walker harness, but the prong collar made a bigger difference with my two.


Same . I was on defense with these collars, but I am truly in love.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Yep--prong collars are like power steering! Now you understand why we use these evil torture devices. 

It's a tool, just like any other tool, you have to find the right one for the job. I have found that the prong has worked well for my hard-pulling GSDs, and prefer it to the harness or head halter, but everyone has to find what works for them.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I've been really happy with the prong, much lighter corrections are needed and it really does work for Delgado


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I use a martingale and have always had success with it ... but I'm not here to say BOO on prongs! 

Congrats on having a successful walk with your dog ... it certainly makes training a lot more rewarding when you are both succeeding!


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## NWHeather (Oct 29, 2010)

Freestep said:


> Yep--prong collars are like power steering! Now you understand why we use these evil torture devices.
> 
> It's a tool, just like any other tool, you have to find the right one for the job. I have found that the prong has worked well for my hard-pulling GSDs, and prefer it to the harness or head halter, but everyone has to find what works for them.


Very well put! 



Shade said:


> I've been really happy with the prong, much lighter corrections are needed and it really does work for Delgado


This is why I like the prong collar. 

I think they have magical properties.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I always thought prongs looked like torture devices until I tried one on Stella....and I am now able to walk her without a problem. Definitely less corrections necessary while on the prong and when they are given...they are listened to!


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## FirstTimeGSD (Jul 31, 2012)

OMG I was in Petsmart today and tried one on Jackson. The difference was instantaneous. Didn't buy it though...can't bring myself to spend $20 on something that I'll probably only use for a couple walks :/


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

FirstTimeGSD said:


> OMG I was in Petsmart today and tried one on Jackson. The difference was instantaneous. Didn't buy it though...can't bring myself to spend $20 on something that I'll probably only use for a couple walks :/


Haha! Yes it was !! 20 dollars


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

katdog5911 said:


> I always thought prongs looked like torture devices until I tried one on Stella....and I am now able to walk her without a problem. Definitely less corrections necessary while on the prong and when they are given...they are listened to!


Yes I know! I bet you were amazed


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Kyleigh said:


> I use a martingale and have always had success with it ... but I'm not here to say BOO on prongs!
> 
> Congrats on having a successful walk with your dog ... it certainly makes training a lot more rewarding when you are both succeeding!


I was planning on using the martingale! Decided not to 

Congrats to you as well and thankss )


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Yep--prong collars are like power steering! Now you understand why we use these evil torture devices.
> 
> It's a tool, just like any other tool, you have to find the right one for the job. I have found that the prong has worked well for my hard-pulling GSDs, and prefer it to the harness or head halter, but everyone has to find what works for them.


Very well said and true


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Shade said:


> I've been really happy with the prong, much lighter corrections are needed and it really does work for Delgado


Agreedddd: ))


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## FirstTimeGSD (Jul 31, 2012)

I, unfortunately, have had absolutely no success whatsoever with the martingale. If he's in a stubborn mood, or knows we're headed somewhere that he loves (like the park where we play ball), he'll happily pull me like crazy and choke himself until he has to take a breather...


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

FirstTimeGSD said:


> I, unfortunately, have had absolutely no success whatsoever with the martingale. If he's in a stubborn mood, or knows we're headed somewhere that he loves (like the park where we play ball), he'll happily pull me like crazy and choke himself until he has to take a breather...


Lol!! Aww !

I swear she literally choked herself a few times seeing squirrels ! I had to run with her bevause I was afraid to hurt her! So I ended up buying the prong, looking at some videos on how to effectively use it, plus asking a trainer! Boom bada bing! It worked! I really cant wait to stop using the prong and keep her on a regular collar 

Definitely worth the money in my eyes!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I started using the prong on my puppy when he was 5 months old, but most people say to wait until they're at least 6 months old.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

The only difference I can think of is that I started Ky on the martingale at 10 weeks, and she learned REALLY early what was expected on walks. Don't get me wrong, we hald meltdowns, tantrums, etc. but I always worked through them. 

She's been a breeze to train and a joy to work with compared to some of the dogs on here I read about LOL

I thank my lucky stars every single time I read a post about "problems" with a GSD


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

How can I say this without seeming like an idiot? Um, I can't, lol. I actually taught my puppy to act like a maniac on a leash. Yep, starting at 8 weeks old, he was always let out to do his business on a flexi. He learned that tension equals freedom, and that he could roam wherever he wanted to. I trained him very well - if I ever need him to cart things around, he's perfect!


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

agreed!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

kelina said:


> Really? Lots of people say harnesses are not much effective.


Lots of people - don't matter. Only what works with my dogs does.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> I started using the prong on my puppy when he was 5 months old, but most people say to wait until they're at least 6 months old.


Awe yu dont use it at all?


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> How can I say this without seeming like an idiot? Um, I can't, lol. I actually taught my puppy to act like a maniac on a leash. Yep, starting at 8 weeks old, he was always let out to do his business on a flexi. He learned that tension equals freedom, and that he could roam wherever he wanted to. I trained him very well - if I ever need him to cart things around, he's perfect!


Lmao awww!!!!! I did exactly the same. She is a spoiled brat ! I have to be more mean tho


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Mary Beth said:


> Lots of people - don't matter. Only what works with my dogs does.


Very true!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Kyleigh said:


> The only difference I can think of is that I started Ky on the martingale at 10 weeks, and she learned REALLY early what was expected on walks. Don't get me wrong, we hald meltdowns, tantrums, etc. but I always worked through them.
> 
> She's been a breeze to train and a joy to work with compared to some of the dogs on here I read about LOL
> 
> I thank my lucky stars every single time I read a post about "problems" with a GSD


Hehe I like the lucky stars saying  its cute hah 

And you are so lucky


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I use it now on walks, and depending on where we're going he might wear it in public. I don't use it to take him to the vet's or the dog park. He's a year old right now.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Here's my problem with "prong collars equal awesomeness"....

Your dog will become collar smart. You need to train in a positive way with rewards (whether that reward is treat, toy or release of pressure). Mine was collar smart. If the prong wasn't on her, she could care less and pull like a freight train. 

So don't replace real training and building a relationship with your dog with a tool. Use the tool to train and work on proofing your dog so you won't need to always use the prong collar. I see so many dogs who are supposed to be therapy dogs that drag their owners around when the prong collar isn't on. IMO, that means your dog isn't trained...it's just collar smart.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Kyleigh said:


> The only difference I can think of is that I started Ky on the martingale at 10 weeks, and she learned REALLY early what was expected on walks. Don't get me wrong, we hald meltdowns, tantrums, etc. but *I always worked through them. *
> 
> She's been a breeze to train and a joy to work with compared to some of the dogs on here I read about LOL
> 
> I thank my lucky stars every single time I read a post about "problems" with a GSD


That's not luck...that's TRAINING! 

I'm not against prongs either. I'm against people using them as a crutch instead of training their dogs. I think I'm just having a rant moment tonight and this topic pushed the button. lol


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> I see so many dogs who are supposed to be therapy dogs that drag their owners around when the prong collar isn't on.


Therapy Dogs are only allowed a flat collar, because someone could get their finger caught in another type. That's what I was told in my group anyway -it makes perfect sense.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Here's my problem with "prong collars equal awesomeness"....
> 
> Your dog will become collar smart. You need to train in a positive way with rewards (whether that reward is treat, toy or release of pressure). Mine was collar smart. If the prong wasn't on her, she could care less and pull like a freight train.
> 
> So don't replace real training and building a relationship with your dog with a tool. Use the tool to train and work on proofing your dog so you won't need to always use the prong collar. I see so many dogs who are supposed to be therapy dogs that drag their owners around when the prong collar isn't on. IMO, that means your dog isn't trained...it's just collar smart.


I did reward her, multiple times. We actually did replace the prong to a regular for a daily walked and she did fairly well.

Thankyou .


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> Therapy Dogs are only allowed a flat collar, because someone could get their finger caught in another type. That's what I was told in my group anyway -it makes perfect sense.


True!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> I see so many dogs who are supposed to be therapy dogs that *drag their owners around when the prong collar isn't on.* IMO, that means your dog isn't trained...it's just collar smart.


If your dog drags you around when the prong collar is not on...they aren't trained...they are just collar smart.



Blanketback said:


> Therapy Dogs are only allowed a flat collar, because someone could get their finger caught in another type. That's what I was told in my group anyway -it makes perfect sense.


While that might make perfect sense....Correction collars are not supposed to be on a therapy dog because they are supposed to be trained and not supposed to require one.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

She was just fine for the first day with&without prong.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If she did fine with & without the prong then why use it? All I'm saying is make sure you are training and proofing without the prong so your dog is actually trained...not just smart to the collar. It will save you the grief I had.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> While that might make perfect sense....Correction collars are not supposed to be on a therapy dog because they are supposed to be trained and not supposed to require one.


I'm confused - do you mean that the collar shouldn't be used at all on a Therapy Dog prospect? Obviously once the dog no longer needs it, it would go back into the toolbox. I understand that a dog can become collar smart if it's used as a crutch, without any training to go with it. But the way you said it, it sounded like a Therapy Dog will drag its owner around - so not only would it be collar smart, it would also be surroundings smart, since they can't wear a prong collar while they work.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Blanketback said:


> I'm confused - do you mean that the collar shouldn't be used at all on a Therapy Dog prospect? Obviously once the dog no longer needs it, it would go back into the toolbox. I understand that a dog can become collar smart if it's used as a crutch, without any training to go with it. But the way you said it, it sounded like a Therapy Dog will drag its owner around - so not only would it be collar smart, it would also be surroundings smart, since they can't wear a prong collar while they work.


Stop being stuck on the therapy dog part. It was an example. I did not say EVERY THERAPY DOG...I said I've seen therapy dogs...as an example of a dog that is supposed to have pretty good training on a flat collar.

What I'm saying is the dog is NOT trained, simply collar smart. It has nothing to do with surroundings. I'm not sure how much plainer I can state it...If the dog is dragging its owner around when the prong is not on the dog then the dog is not trained.

I see many owners use the collar as a crutch thinking their dogs are trained when it is simply the collar administering self corrects when the dog pulls. Take the collar away and you have an untrained dog.

My point being...finishing training your dog and don't become dependent on a training tool.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Okey dokey. But you do know there are probably millions of people who use all the different devices (prongs, head collars, harnesses, what-nots) and couldn't give a hoot that their dogs aren't trained? They're just happy to be able to walk them, lol.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> If she did fine with & without the prong then why use it? All I'm saying is make sure you are training and proofing without the prong so your dog is actually trained...not just smart to the collar. It will save you the grief I had.


No. I said she did fine with the prong, so when I switched it for a test she did okay for the first day with reg. Collar?


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## Armed Citizen (Nov 24, 2012)

At what age do you recommend to start using a prong collar?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I am lucky enough to have a dog that was trained on a flat. I did have to get her a prong when I went to the GSD club..that is there rules. I did put it on her a couple times, but I never had to give a correction. I never went back to the GSD club either, mostly because of this. I finely called them back because I wanted to go there and they told me I didn't have to use a prong. I understand they are a tool and once the dog is trained they should be fine, but my biggest concern is that I see lots of dogs with them on and they are older supposedly trained dogs. Lots of people go back to using them in certain situations, which makes me believe the dog wasn't trained to begin with. How many years are they going to use the prong for?? I would also like to add that my dog turns into a different dog with the prong on, she kinda looses her spirit and mopes. I didn't like that reaction from her and since she doesn't need one I won't do that to her, but I do not past judgement on those that do use them and do so the right way.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Many people start around 6 months when the puppy is large enough and strong enough to be hard to control if you have not either trained the puppy properly from the get go or have a punk on your hands.

I think good training can eliminate the need for most dogs. I wound up with one with Beau because I was negligent in doing solid training with him (and he is also simply full of himself) because I was dealing with two other dogs - one with cancer and one with a back injury and he did not get as much attention in obedience as I should have given him. My older dog, Grim, has never needed more than a flat collar.

There is still a need to teach loose leash walking without a prong. No dog should be expected to "heel" for recreational walking for long distances....and the prong is really not designed to simply keep a dog from pulling on a long line. 

To me it has its uses as a training tool and it must be fit properly and you need to learn how to give a proper correction because it can actually backfire with a dog lunging etc. because it can increase, not decrease, drive with the wrong kind of correction.

I think most folks though just fall into using the prong as "power steering" instead of a training tool.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Armed Citizen said:


> At what age do you recommend to start using a prong collar?


I think people are ready at about 55. Patience is typically better and more well established.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I think people are ready at about 55. Patience is typically better and more well established.


:rofl:


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

LOL you got THAT right! The other day Beau came FLYING into the house where my husband was typing on the sofa on his laptop. Laptop survived (phew) and husband still has his man parts (phew) but 20 years ago that would have been a big fight, a punished dog, etc. ........ He laughed and said "when are we going to be too old for this, reminde me?"


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> Okey dokey. But you do know there are probably millions of people who use all the different devices (prongs, head collars, harnesses, what-nots) and couldn't give a hoot that their dogs aren't trained? They're just happy to be able to walk them, lol.


I think everyone realizes that but it doesn't mean we have to like it. 

OP, I'm glad the prong collar is working for you. Personally, I've never had noticeably better results with a prong than with a gentle leader-type device (either harness or head collar), and I have seen them sort of "shut down" some sensitive dogs so I tend to prefer the gentle leaders. I think a lot depends on the dog and the handler's methods, so basically personal preference. Clearly your girl isn't bothered by it so I'm not criticizing, just giving my perspective. 

Although, on smaller dogs I'll usually just train in a flat collar and haven't had problems teaching loose leash walking and heel with just that. I only used to use a head collar on my GSD because he is large enough (and was already when I got him) that I didn't want to risk losing him if he spotted something and tried to take off before I got him reliable leash manners and recall.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Here's my problem with "prong collars equal awesomeness"....
> 
> Your dog will become collar smart. You need to train in a positive way with rewards (whether that reward is treat, toy or release of pressure). Mine was collar smart. If the prong wasn't on her, she could care less and pull like a freight train.
> 
> So don't replace real training and building a relationship with your dog with a tool. Use the tool to train and work on proofing your dog so you won't need to always use the prong collar. I see so many dogs who are supposed to be therapy dogs that drag their owners around when the prong collar isn't on. IMO, that means your dog isn't trained...it's just collar smart.


Absolutely true. I use a prong on Stella but am continuing to work on polite walking. In the obedience class, prongs are not allowed. I use a flat collar there. In my situation, the prong is mainly to control her reactivity to other dogs or whatever. I hope maybe one day not to need the prong at all.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

I have tried everything on Sib..gentle leader..front harness..flat collar..but the prong is the only way I can control Sib..She was returned to the breeder by first owner because of her being so hard to walk...pulling..etc...Finally, with the prong she is manageable..i do not feel like I have failed in her training..This is just the ONLY way to manage this dog..jan


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Blanketback said:


> Okey dokey. But you do know there are probably millions of people who use all the different devices (prongs, head collars, harnesses, what-nots) and couldn't give a hoot that their dogs aren't trained? They're just happy to be able to walk them, lol.


True! And if they are happy with that, more power to them.  

And I owe you an apology. I was really blunt when I said I didn't know how much plainer I could say that...I wasn't being smart or snotty...I literally didn't know how to restate it to make my point. lol


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

kelina said:


> No. I said she did fine with the prong, so when I switched it for a test she did okay for the first day with reg. Collar?


Dogs do not generalize. If you teach Sit in the same place every day for 6 weeks and then go to PetSmart, the dog will most likely not sit. Different place, different things to look at and smell, more interesting things.....You need to teach a command in several different places for the dog to think "oh yeah...I got this!"

So you put the prong on her, then took it off and did the command within minutes. She remembers that she had a correction and redoes the command. But if you put her on a flat collar, take her to a different place the next day, getting identical results will probably be iffy.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Dogs do not generalize. If you teach Sit in the same place every day for 6 weeks and then go to PetSmart, the dog will most likely not sit. Different place, different things to look at and smell, more interesting things.....You need to teach a command in several different places for the dog to think "oh yeah...I got this!"
> 
> So you put the prong on her, then took it off and did the command within minutes. She remembers that she had a correction and redoes the command. But if you put her on a flat collar, take her to a different place the next day, getting identical results will probably be iffy.


We actually did this today! And yes different smells different looks blah blah but ! She did awesome! Heeled when i said so and such. She is really intelligent! I mean of course she tried pulling and going her way, she cant learn something she did for almost 2 months of her life. 

Practice makes perfect.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

jang said:


> I have tried everything on Sib..gentle leader..front harness..flat collar..but the prong is the only way I can control Sib..She was returned to the breeder by first owner because of her being so hard to walk...pulling..etc...Finally, with the prong she is manageable..i do not feel like I have failed in her training..This is just the ONLY way to manage this dog..jan


Exactly! What a great story : ))


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> lol you got that right! The other day beau came flying into the house where my husband was typing on the sofa on his laptop. Laptop survived (phew) and husband still has his man parts (phew) but 20 years ago that would have been a big fight, a punished dog, etc. ........ He laughed and said "when are we going to be too old for this, reminde me?"


hehe so cute


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

RowdyDogs said:


> I think everyone realizes that but it doesn't mean we have to like it.
> 
> OP, I'm glad the prong collar is working for you. Personally, I've never had noticeably better results with a prong than with a gentle leader-type device (either harness or head collar), and I have seen them sort of "shut down" some sensitive dogs so I tend to prefer the gentle leaders. I think a lot depends on the dog and the handler's methods, so basically personal preference. Clearly your girl isn't bothered by it so I'm not criticizing, just giving my perspective.
> 
> Although, on smaller dogs I'll usually just train in a flat collar and haven't had problems teaching loose leash walking and heel with just that. I only used to use a head collar on my GSD because he is large enough (and was already when I got him) that I didn't want to risk losing him if he spotted something and tried to take off before I got him reliable leash manners and recall.


Aww thankyou! She is feeling way more confident when she looks at me! You own a small dog?  I wouldn't want to hurt their baby necks with a prong lmao!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> Many people start around 6 months when the puppy is large enough and strong enough to be hard to control if you have not either trained the puppy properly from the get go or have a punk on your hands.
> 
> I think good training can eliminate the need for most dogs. I wound up with one with Beau because I was negligent in doing solid training with him (and he is also simply full of himself) because I was dealing with two other dogs - one with cancer and one with a back injury and he did not get as much attention in obedience as I should have given him. My older dog, Grim, has never needed more than a flat collar.
> 
> ...


Gah! You are soooo smart  come be my trainer for a day


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> And I owe you an apology. I was really blunt when I said...


That's very nice of you, but I don't think you need to apologize for being blunt  I'm very direct myself, and I'd be the last person you need to walk on eggshells around! I actually enjoyed that comment, lol.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

wow no offence to anyone - altho it will most likely be taken that way - this thread is so self-reinforcing to each other's posts it's kind of creepy. it's like a roomfull of new zealots revealing their conversion stories to each other like one big mind F.

just an observation.

BTW i have no opinon on the use of the prong other than its a training tool that can be used correctly or not, like any other training tool.

PEACE and halleuiah


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

kelina said:


> Aww thankyou! She is feeling way more confident when she looks at me! You own a small dog?  I wouldn't want to hurt their baby necks with a prong lmao!


Haha not really "small"...the breed I've always worked with and still own (in addition to my GSD) are Australian Cattle Dogs, so they're generally 30-40 pounds. They're still pretty good-sized dogs and extremely tough, but they just don't have the weight that my GSD does! With them, I don't worry about them jerking out of my hand or getting me off-balance so I generally just train them in a flat collar. I used to use prongs and gentle leaders on them but with the training methods I use now (clicker training mostly), I just find it unnecessary.

Hector got a gentle leader even though I am physically capable of holding him, but he's big enough that it was difficult and I thought it was just nicer for both of us. I can't train effectively when my arm is being yanked out of its socket.  But he learns so quick, I was able to quit using it within a month or so.


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