# Trouble in the White House



## wolfy dog

Joe Biden's Dogs Taken to Delaware After Aggressive Behavior and 'Biting Incident' Involving Major: Report


President Joe Biden's German Shepherds Champ and Major taken to Delaware after an incident involving the younger dog Major, according to a CNN report.




people.com




I have been wondering how a GSD would thrive in the WH with all the comings and goings and probably the lack of a good trainer.


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## Bearshandler

No rules? I think we should have a talk with him.


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## selzer

wolfy dog said:


> Joe Biden's Dogs Taken to Delaware After Aggressive Behavior and 'Biting Incident' Involving Major: Report
> 
> 
> President Joe Biden's German Shepherds Champ and Major taken to Delaware after an incident involving the younger dog Major, according to a CNN report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> people.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been wondering how a GSD would thrive in the WH with all the comings and goings and probably the lack of a good trainer.


A German Shepherd should be able to do fine in the White House. There are off-limits areas where the dogs could be. A good dog should be able to manage non-threatening, ordinary goings on. And, when the dog is being taken ANYWHERE where it may meet folks that it doesn't know, it should be on lead. Biden is OLD. If the younger, 3 year old dog, wants to drag him into a guest or squirrel, Biden's going down, prong collar or no. So they have dog-walkers. And still there's an accident. Looks bad for our breed. 

I am not surprised. And I wasn't enthusiastic when everyone was losing their shtuff about him having GSDs in the White House. Of course the guy's focus needs to be about what he was elected for and not getting his dogs under control.


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## davewis

Well, I guess the white house could get a herd of sheep for the garden so the dogs have a full-time job to keep themselves busy while mom and dad are working.


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## ksotto333

I wouldn't have worried about my girls. They roll with the flow. This breed absolutely should be able to be in a busy home.


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## Aly

Back on Topic: Question for you guys, especially the trainers. It's not clear to me how removing both dogs to Delaware addresses the problem, unless one's primary concern is the safety of staff and security personnel. Understandable but it doesn't really address the issue does it? I'd be concerned that the dogs sudden removal may actually exacerbate the issue, if there is one. Thoughts?


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## Lexie’s mom

I feel bad for a 14y.o, that wasn’t even involved but still got separated from his family, the whole situation must be super stressful for a senior dog.


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## dogfaeries

NO POLITICS.


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## WNGD

I was actually more concerned that some perfect appearing GSD would actually result in yet more baseless "popularity" and careless GSD owners who want a dog like the President. Hopefully, half a million people re-consider 

In an interview with PEOPLE last month, Dr. Biden said that Champ and Major "don't have any rules, they're really good dogs."


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## car2ner

I'm surprised that the president didn't have someone step in and say, "sir, let me help you handle that youngster."


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## Sunsilver

"Major, who is a big, little dog, is about a year-and-half-old and the only rule Jill has and he follows it: Do not get up on the furniture."

Well, guess that is going to have to change! To quote Cesar, "Rules, boundaries and limitations"!
You cannot let a large breed that has been bred to be a guardian just set the rules for itself. 

Sorry this happened, but I'm sure the Bidens will deal with it appropriately, and not just get rid of the dog!


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## Pawsed

Just want to express my appreciation to the moderators. You folks do a great job here! Thank you.


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## LuvShepherds

Maybe this will make people think twice about the breed. I was personally horrified that anyone would admit to owning a German Shepherd with no rules. The White House or any other public setting, is no place for an unsocialized and untrained dog. I recall a previous administration also had a dog bite incident to the face of a teenager and it was not removed. If nothing else, in the future when a President owns a breed prone to biting or even a dog with a nipping history, they should be encouraged to use a professional trainer. I’m not sure how my dogs would react to a lot of strangers in and out of their home, and mine are reasonably well trained.


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## Arathorn II

Major was already 3 when they adopted him, right? Who know what kind of situation he came out of


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## LuvShepherds

Arathorn II said:


> Major was already 3 when they adopted him, right? Who know what kind of situation he came out of


He’s only 18 months old now.


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## SimonC

WNGD said:


> I was actually more concerned that some perfect appearing GSD would actually result in yet more baseless "popularity" and careless GSD owners who want a dog like the President. Hopefully, half a million people re-consider
> 
> In an interview with PEOPLE last month, Dr. Biden said that Champ and Major "don't have any rules, they're really good dogs."


Can't like this enough. Do GSDs deserve to be one of the most popular and beloved breeds? Of course! Are they for everyone? No. Do people get pets without doing any research about how to care for them? Constantly...and the dogs always lose. 

Imagine a parent admitting their child has no rules. They would not be considered a good parent at all. A German Shep is as intelligent as a young child, plus he can rip your hand off! No rules...my goodness...


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## Arathorn II

LuvShepherds said:


> He’s only 18 months old now.


 oh ok. Maybe he was 3 months old.


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## brittanyS

Things are gonna change in the Biden household.

*Rules for Champ and Major:*
1. Stay off the furniture *No Biting*


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## Chip Blasiole

In an interview with PEOPLE last month, Dr. Biden said that Champ and Major "don't have any rules, they're really good dogs."


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## wolfy dog

selzer said:


> A German Shepherd should be able to do fine in the White House. There are off-limits areas where the dogs could be. A good dog should be able to manage non-threatening, ordinary goings on. And, when the dog is being taken ANYWHERE where it may meet folks that it doesn't know, it should be on lead. Biden is OLD. If the younger, 3 year old dog, wants to drag him into a guest or squirrel, Biden's going down, prong collar or no. So they have dog-walkers. And still there's an accident. Looks bad for our breed.


I agree if we are dealing with a stable dog who is managed and trained. It was emphasized that Major was a rescue and people were going crazy about this. We don't know if he is an adolescent without rules or a dog with a bite history. I doubt that Biden has a lot of dog sense if he said that they don't have rules, unless he was joking. And the vet who recommended to get a buddy for the senior dog should be muzzled. I feel sorry for both dogs. They should have kept the oldie in the WH.


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## Thecowboysgirl

Aly said:


> Back on Topic: Question for you guys, especially the trainers. It's not clear to me how removing both dogs to Delaware addresses the problem, unless one's primary concern is the safety of staff and security personnel. Understandable but it doesn't really address the issue does it? I'd be concerned that the dogs sudden removal may actually exacerbate the issue, if there is one. Thoughts?


I would assume that their private residence has fewer people in and out all the time. A more predictable environment. And/or an environment that can be controlled. 

Just theorizing but if the dog has stranger danger, I would assume there is constantly people surrounding them as security (probably with varying degrees of dog skills). How many different secret service are there? I gotta assume a decent #.... someone is on 24/7 so they must be rotated. Then there are all the people who must want to approach and talk to the Bidens each day. Are there still more security who do sweeps of the residence for bombs/bugs/idk? I am just guessing, I really don't know anything about the WH or the president's living quarters.

But I am assuming it is a much busier, noisier place with many more possible strangers constantly rotating. Could be very unsettling to an insecure young dog.

I'm assuming the Bidens would have much more control over the environment and who came near the dogs at their personal residence. Hopefully some of their family can stay there with the dogs.


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## Fodder

everyday i call my dog a bad dog and tell people that he does whatever he wants. all lighthearted figure of speech.... i’m sure Biden’s dogs have more than 1 rule.

they’re also quoting old articles. seems major was adopted at 18 months and is now 3yrs.


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## middleofnowhere

We weren't there, we didn't see it, we have a news report. 

BTW Kennedys had a GSD.


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## LuvShepherds

middleofnowhere said:


> We weren't there, we didn't see it, we have a news report.
> 
> BTW Kennedys had a GSD.


Does that mean the news article is wrong? 

Their dog didn’t bite anyone.


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## WNGD

LuvShepherds said:


> Maybe this will make people think twice about the breed. I was personally horrified that anyone would admit to owning a German Shepherd with no rules. The White House or any other public setting, is no place for an unsocialized and untrained dog. I recall a previous administration also had a dog bite incident to the face of a teenager and it was not removed. If nothing else, in the future when a President owns a breed prone to biting or even a dog with a nipping history, they should be encouraged to use a professional trainer. I’m not sure how my dogs would react to a lot of strangers in and out of their home, and mine are reasonably well trained.


I know what you're saying but (and not to speak for Biden) but what I think he was saying was they were well trained and great dogs and didn't need any rules, not that they had never been trained. In fact he said they had trained them themselves.

And the White House residential area (Executive Residence) is quite apart from the West Wing where all the visitors and strangers happen. It's 4 floors and is the middle of the White House, separating the East and West wings so they can try to keep the kids and family life semi-normal. Not hard to keep the dogs apart.

Totally agree that I hope it turns thousands of would be GSD owners off!


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## LuvShepherds

WNGD said:


> I know what you're saying but (and not to speak for Biden) but what I think he was saying was they were well trained and great dogs and didn't need any rules, not that they had never been trained. In fact he said they had trained them themselves.
> 
> And the White House residential area (Executive Residence) is quite apart from the West Wing where all the visitors and strangers happen. It's 4 floors and is the middle of the White House, separating the East and West wings so they can try to keep the kids and family life semi-normal. Not hard to keep the dogs apart.
> 
> Totally agree that I hope it turns thousands of would be GSD owners off!


“trained themselves” is a red flag. I know we can’t talk about him but in general if someone came to this forum saying exactly what he said about his dogs and he wasn’t someone famous, we would be all over him about it.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Lexie’s mom said:


> I feel bad for a 14y.o, that wasn’t even involved but still got separated from his family, the whole situation must be super stressful for a senior dog.


My thought exactly. I feel for the senior dog.


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## Bearshandler

wolfy dog said:


> I doubt that Biden has a lot of dog sense if he said that they don't have rules, unless he was joking.


There was someone pretty accomplished in the dog world who recently said the next dog they get wasn’t going get any rules or training other than a recall I think. Maybe that’s retirement thing.


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## LuvShepherds

Bearshandler said:


> There was someone pretty accomplished in the dog world who recently said the next dog they get wasn’t going get any rules or training other than a recall I think. Maybe that’s retirement thing.


Laziness. A good handler trains the dog without doing formal training. You can shape a lot of good behavior just by interacting with the dog.


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## wolfy dog

When it comes to dog owners, laziness doesn't have an age.


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## wolfy dog

LuvShepherds said:


> “trained themselves” is a red flag. I know we can’t talk about him but in general if someone came to this forum saying exactly what he said about his dogs and he wasn’t someone famous, we would be all over him about it.


I think we are 😉. Maybe he is a member here...


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## Sunflowers

“ CNN reached out to the White House for comment and did not immediately receive a reply.

Major, who is 3 years old, is the younger of the two Biden dogs, and has been known to display agitated behavior on multiple occasions, including jumping, barking, and “charging” at staff and security, according to the people CNN spoke with about the dog’s demeanor at the White House. The older of Biden’s German Shepherds, Champ, is approximately 13 and has slowed down physically due to his advanced age.”


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## Fodder

LuvShepherds said:


> “trained themselves” is a red flag. I know we can’t talk about him but in general if someone came to this forum saying exactly what he said about his dogs and he wasn’t someone famous, we would be all over him about it.


....but we’d have the opportunity to ask questions, discuss, and gain clarification.



Sunflowers said:


> Major, who is 3 years old, is the younger of the two Biden dogs, and has been known to display agitated behavior on multiple occasions, including jumping, barking, and “charging” at staff and security, *according to the people CNN spoke with* about the dog’s demeanor at the White House.


who may or may not have any idea how to read dog behavior.


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## Bearshandler

LuvShepherds said:


> Laziness. A good handler trains the dog without doing formal training. You can shape a lot of good behavior just by interacting with the dog.


Granted I know a lot of dogs are bought titled, but I don’t think I would question the training ability or knowledge of this one. Methods, that’s a different story.


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## LuvShepherds

Fodder said:


> ....but we’d have the opportunity to ask questions, discuss, and gain clarification.


Yes, sometimes, but people also get defensive and don’t answer or flounce off if we offend them.


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## LuvShepherds

Bearshandler said:


> Granted I know a lot of dogs are bought titled, but I don’t think I would question the training ability or knowledge of this one. Methods, that’s a different story.


I wasn’t questioning him, or even know who it is, but an experienced person can say they aren’t training and yet their dogs end up quite well behaved. Some people here don’t do formal training, two in particular who each have a lot of dogs, but their dogs are still somehow trained on recall, socialized, etc.


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## WNGD

I plan to retire where there aren't a lot of uninvited guests or close neighbors around and there's nothing but a lake out front and thousands of acres of free forest to roam out back.

Only one rule for my dogs:
1/ Come when you're called, immediately and without question or hesitation.

That's it ....

Oh OK
2/ Don't run off the property without me. Go to the bathroom out there though....
3/ Don't chase, excessively bark or bite people unless appropriate 
4/ Don't jump up on guests
5/ Don't eat things you're not supposed to or tear up the house; stay off the furniture

Fairly perfect dog right there. Get number one right and the rest are usually pretty easy imo


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## wolfy dog

LuvShepherds said:


> I wasn’t questioning him, or even know who it is, but an experienced person can say they aren’t training and yet their dogs end up quite well behaved. Some people here don’t do formal training, two in particular who each have a lot of dogs, but their dogs are still somehow trained on recall, socialized, etc.


Any well-behaved dog has had some form of training IMO.. Actually what is "formal training" anyways? I don't do competition obedience or Schutzhund, IPO etc. I do work hard on manners and work them in games and play. I manage their dynamics and we do fun stuff like Barn Hunt, Fast Cat with Bo, Rally with both of them, bike rides. But I am not into competition, yet they are trained and a joy to live with, because they are content with their lives.
Regarding Major in the WH, I think it was all too cute and feel-good and he was getting too much freedom too soon. I wonder if Biden or anyone has taken the trouble to keep him leashed the first few weeks. Were their "accidents"? Obama's dog had accidents there. I think they failed Major and Champ as well as they both have to pay the price of being separated from their family.


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## Whiteshepherds

LuvShepherds said:


> “trained themselves” is a red flag. I know we can’t talk about him but in general if someone came to this forum saying exactly what he said about his dogs and he wasn’t someone famous, we would be all over him about it.


 According to this interview with the Biden's, both dogs are well trained. (Champ was trained by Canine Corps, it sounds like the Biden's trained Major) 








The White House Rules for the Bidens' German Shepherds (and What They Can Still Get Away With)


President Joe Biden and Dr. Jill Biden admit that — though the dogs are well-trained — Champ and Major break little rules from time to time




people.com





The dogs haven't been sent away forever. There was a press briefing today and they said the dogs are in Delaware temporarily and often go there to stay with family friends with Jill Biden travels. (she's traveling now) Sounds like she takes on the bulk of the responsibility for the dogs. (her husband is probably a little busy) I'm guessing with the resources available to them the Biden's will find someone to help out with Majors issues if they continue.


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## Sabis mom

WNGD said:


> Only one rule for my dogs:
> 1/ Come when you're called, immediately and without question or hesitation.
> 
> That's it ....
> 
> Oh OK
> 2/ Don't run off the property without me. Go to the bathroom out there though....
> 3/ Don't chase, excessively bark or bite people unless appropriate
> 4/ Don't jump up on guests
> 5/ Don't eat things you're not supposed to or tear up the house; stay off the furniture


House rules 
My house is not a bathroom
Also don't pee on anything I own outside, that includes each other!
If I say move, move. 
Move does not mean wiggle and look cute, or roll over.
My food is always my food.
Even if I leave for a minute. Or set it on the floor.
Dishes belong on counters, dogs do not.
Also food on counters is mine. See previous rule.
Just because you can go over it/under it/ around it/through it does not mean you should.
If in doubt ask.


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## WNGD

Sabis mom said:


> House rules
> My house is not a bathroom
> Also don't pee on anything I own outside, that includes each other!
> If I say move, move.
> Move does not mean wiggle and look cute, or roll over.
> My food is always my food.
> Even if I leave for a minute. Or set it on the floor.
> Dishes belong on counters, dogs do not.
> Also food on counters is mine. See previous rule.
> Just because you can go over it/under it/ around it/through it does not mean you should.
> If in doubt ask.


Yup, "my food" falls under my rule "don't eat food your not supposed to"
That pretty much includes anything I don't give you.


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## ksotto333

I just read the response from the press secretary/White House. The phrase the dog was startled was used 3 times in one paragraph. A person was treated in house for minor injuries. Also from CNN, the dog has been agitated, jumping, barking, and charging at staff and security.


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## doubleroll

Well it’s always the owner’s fault not the dog’s…seems this is the case here as well.


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## SuperG

I just saw Oprah interview the two dogs.....they're just misunderstood and not at fault.....the dog suggested the SS agent bit him.

I think we all have to be careful jumping to conclusions.....


SuperG


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## Memo182

LuvShepherds said:


> He’s only 18 months old now.


Major is actually 3 years old now according to CNN. 









Biden's German Shepherd has aggressive incident and is sent back to Delaware


The two German Shepherds belonging to President Joe Biden and first lady Jill Biden were returned to the Biden family home in Delaware last week after aggressive behavior at the White House involving Major Biden, two sources with knowledge tell CNN.




edition.cnn.com


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## Cassidy's Mom

From an article in the Washington Post, it sounds pretty minor:



> Late Tuesday, a Secret Service official told The Washington Post that Major nipped at an agent’s hand at the White House, causing a minor injury and leaving a small mark. The skin was not punctured, and there was no bleeding, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe a sensitive subject. The agent resumed normal duties after the incident, the official said.


Hopefully the dogs will be able to return to the WH soon, perhaps with better management.


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## LuvShepherds

Memo182 said:


> Major is actually 3 years old now according to CNN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biden's German Shepherd has aggressive incident and is sent back to Delaware
> 
> 
> The two German Shepherds belonging to President Joe Biden and first lady Jill Biden were returned to the Biden family home in Delaware last week after aggressive behavior at the White House involving Major Biden, two sources with knowledge tell CNN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com


So that means he’s had even more time to develop unacceptable habits and behaviors and will be harder to train, if they decide to do that. There are situations where unstable dogs don’t do well.


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## LuvShepherds

Cassidy's Mom said:


> From an article in the Washington Post, it sounds pretty minor:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully the dogs will be able to return to the WH soon, perhaps with better management.


If they make an effort to train them. It’s unfair to paid staff to have to work around dangerous dogs.


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## JAO1982

I remember seeing an article on the Biden dogs shortly before he got inaugurated. Major was a young puppy when they adopted him. The interview with Jill occurred awhile ago, he was 18 months. He is 3 now. I have no idea circumstances surrounding the bite or the activity level provided to Major. So I won’t comment on that. Feel bad for both of the dogs, but especially Champ who is 14 and is probably traumatized beyond belief in his golden years and did absolutely nothing wrong.


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## Parkers

Aly said:


> Back on Topic: Question for you guys, especially the trainers. It's not clear to me how removing both dogs to Delaware addresses the problem, unless one's primary concern is the safety of staff and security personnel. Understandable but it doesn't really address the issue does it? I'd be concerned that the dogs sudden removal may actually exacerbate the issue, if there is one. Thoughts?


The solution is training! and the older dog absolutely should not be separated from the family.

W


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## Whiteshepherds

JAO1982 said:


> Feel bad for both of the dogs, but especially Champ who is 14 and is probably traumatized beyond belief in his golden years and did absolutely nothing wrong.


Traumatized by what? At the WH briefing they said the dogs often go to the family home in Delaware and are watched by friends of the family when Jill Biden travels so this isn't anything new for them. (the dogs)


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## middleofnowhere

Some of Y'all need a chill pill. My well-trained 7 yo would likely do something very similar. She's enthusiastic still. .... and I doubt that Champ is traumatized. He's used to the Maryland home, he's got his buddy with him. As for "dogs trained themselves" -- my senior dogs have always trained the youngsters in many respects. From one peeing outside at least three times in a "look. do this here" thing until the "new kid" got it. So yeah, in many respects they do.


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## herojig

wolfy dog said:


> Joe Biden's Dogs Taken to Delaware After Aggressive Behavior and 'Biting Incident' Involving Major: Report
> 
> 
> President Joe Biden's German Shepherds Champ and Major taken to Delaware after an incident involving the younger dog Major, according to a CNN report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> people.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been wondering how a GSD would thrive in the WH with all the comings and goings and probably the lack of a good trainer.


my own personal meme


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## herojig

I dont care if he was sent to delaware or florida to his death or to a nice place; it seems to me he should have been sent no farther than the time out room to calm down, and maybe the SS agent should have been sent to the farm, I don't know, I wasn't there. But I don't treat my pets that way, or shelter dogs... or even street dogs... wtf....I'm having an *aggressive incident* every 5 minutes around here, with cats, GSDs, street mutts and now a st. Bernard horse for a rescue. So don't say that with all the power of the WH behind him, POTUS couldn't have figured out something more corrective.

This is really roiling my dementia rage, how about u?

Ps. Anyone know how to add a doggie name to my signature below... i cant find the click, I'm in such a rage. #FREEMAJOR #GSDLIVESMATTER #STEALTHEDOG


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## herojig

middleofnowhere said:


> Some of Y'all need a chill pill. My well-trained 7 yo would likely do something very similar. She's enthusiastic still. .... and I doubt that Champ is traumatized. He's used to the Maryland home, he's got his buddy with him. As for "dogs trained themselves" -- my senior dogs have always trained the youngsters in many respects. From one peeing outside at least three times in a "look. do this here" thing until the "new kid" got it. So yeah, in many respects they do.


This is exactly what I just went through here just this past two weeks. But with a Golden Saint rescue! In fact, I decided to take the rescue, partly because I heard about why Major was introduced into the Biden home. My gsd Hiro is 14. I wanted someone to help him along, when I can't be there. And I noticed it actually works. Hiro is looking and moving better than ever... maybe it's the competition or whatever, but the theory of a younger dog helping an older dog has played out well here. Even though on first sight, the younger one wanted to kill the older one, now they are best buds








Would Bernie go after an SS agent that came to into my gate? Sure, if unsupervised. But I am sure if I was there, and he was on a lead, he would not get far in that endeavor. And here it's just me, without the resources of the Federal government.


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## CEMC

German Shepherds need a strong leader. What else can I say...


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## selzer

OMG! Every time I read "SS Agent" I was thinking The Nazis SS. During the last post I realized it must be Secret Service. LOL! Young dogs sometimes give added life to older dogs. They are pack animals, and sometimes the older ones train the younger ones and sometimes the younger ones benefit the older ones, encourage eating, etc. I have no problem with that. 

I have a problem with elderly folks who probably have an incredible work-day, incredible amount of travel, incredible amount of visitors, VIPs, staff, etc. keeping a young, unruly GSD. 18 months ago, the Bidens may not have thought they would be in the White House now. But you have to think that they probably knew they would be on the campaign trail, so, why put in a rescued 18 month dog, that you can't possibly have the time for? 

I do feel sorry for the old dog. It's 14? That is awesome age, and it shouldn't be separated from it main person unless under extreme circumstances. Being cared for by friends, well, that sound that it is likely the dog will die while being cared for by friends. And yeah a young dog can help an old dog. But a 12 year old dog really doesn't need an 18 month old puppy. Now and 11 year old dog might do great with an 8 week old puppy, that can then be raised by the older dog and be 3 when the older dog is 14. Well, what is done is done. 

I don't like it because of the press it gives our breed. When they make the lists of dogs they won't insure, GSDs are just that much more likely to land on that list.


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## dojoson41

dogs dont belong in the white house.


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## Sunsilver

Really, dojoson? I just looked it up, and 31 of the 46 presidents have had at least one dog in the West Wing! Donald Trump was the first president in over 100 years to not have a dog.
Kennedy had 8 dogs, including a German shepherd named Major! (Gee, I bet Biden knew that...)  









27 photos of some of the most adorable dogs to live in the White House


Dogs are the most popular pet for presidents. These 27 are some of the most adorable and well-known canines to grace the Oval Office.




www.businessinsider.com




.

So, history is definitely not on your side! 😁


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## Pawsed

Maybe the older dog would be more comfortable in his old familiar surroundings instead of a new and more hectic location.

It's not like he is being tossed out to total strangers. He is well acquainted with the people there. 

He may actually prefer a more peaceful and relaxed atmosphere. I know I would. Maybe it's unfair to subject him to such an upheaval at that age. And no one is saying it's permanent anyway. 

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## LisaFrancis

As I understand the incident, the dogs primarily belong to Mrs Biden. She is away and they often go to Delaware when she is away to stay with familiar people. Apparently the secret service agent surprised the dog who ‘nipped’ the agent. There was no broken skin, the agent was not injured. He was evaluated by in house medical staff who promptly returned him to work with no loss of time worked. I agree this does not paint GSDs in a great light and that especially when you have a protective dog, greater care needs to be taken around people. I believe the intention is to return the dogs to the White House when Mrs Biden returns home from her travels.


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## Jenny720

They are coming back as previously planned after travels. A video that explained things -








Biden's German Shepherd has aggressive incident and is sent back to Delaware


The two German Shepherds belonging to President Joe Biden and first lady Jill Biden were returned to the Biden family home in Delaware last week after aggressive behavior at the White House involving Major Biden, two sources with knowledge tell CNN.




www.cnn.com


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## Lexie’s mom

Cesar Millan wants to help Biden's dogs feel at home in the White House


The former 'Dog Whisperer' tells MarketWatch his tips for helping pups like Major adjust -- without biting incidents




www.marketwatch.com


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## LuvShepherds

Lexie’s mom said:


> Cesar Millan wants to help Biden's dogs feel at home in the White House
> 
> 
> The former 'Dog Whisperer' tells MarketWatch his tips for helping pups like Major adjust -- without biting incidents
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.marketwatch.com


Nothing like using a public event to promote oneself.


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## Bearshandler

There are plenty of trainers offering their services for this, including calik9. I figure the boost from saying you train the president’s dogs is probably as good as it gets.


LuvShepherds said:


> Nothing like using a public event to promote oneself.


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## car2ner

I hope they take someone up on the offer to help them at the W.H. They should have had that before day one, but what is done is done.


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## LuvShepherds

Bearshandler said:


> There are plenty of trainers offering their services for this, including calik9. I figure the boost from saying you train the president’s dogs is probably as good as it gets.


Only if the dog starts behaving better, LOL.


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## Bearshandler

LuvShepherds said:


> Only if the dog starts behaving better, LOL.


True. It’s not hard to get temporary results though, enough to make it look like you were successful. I’d think anyone taking on that job would make it their highest priority though.


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## selzer

It's good to have dogs in the White House. I mean, it makes the pres. more human to folks, because lots of Americans own dogs, UNLESS, we just have a dog because it is expected. That would be bad. But having dogs there, says dogs are family, they live where the family lives. If the family lives in the White House, the dogs live there too. When the dogs are sent away, it suggests the dogs are just another prop. A 14 year old dog sent to be cared for by friends, yeah, that's ugly. Can these old folks manage large dogs? Jill seems more spry than Joe, but I tried to pick up Kojak a few days ago, and I can't. He is too fricking heavy. A 14 year old dog might need to be picked up to be put in a car or van, and that just might be too much for an older woman to do, to take her with her where she is going. I dunno. I like the idea of dogs being where the first family is, but only dogs they can manage. Maybe they should have springer spaniels or a pug dog or a Yorkie. When I can no longer manage GSDs, just bury me. I can't imagine owning any other breed.


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## Fodder

i swear, Champ ages faster than any dog i know. 
12 to 13 to 14 in just 1 week...
he’s 12.
delaware is an hour from dc.
he’s going to a home and people he’s very familiar with, as it’s been the life he’s known for many years.
dogs are resilient creatures.


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## Whiteshepherds

Fodder said:


> i swear, Champ ages faster than any dog i know. 12 to 13 to 14 in just 1 week...he’s 12.


Correct.  He was born in Oct - 2008. Major was born in Jan 2018.


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## Whiteshepherds

selzer said:


> Can these old folks manage large dogs? Jill seems more spry than Joe, but *I tried to pick up Kojak a few days ago, and I can't. He is too fricking heavy. * A 14 year old dog might need to be picked up to be put in a car or van, and that just might be too much for an older woman to do, to take her with her where she is going.


So does this mean we should all assume you have no business owning larger dogs? Poor Kojak? How will he be put in a car if you can't do it? 
What's the difference between you not being able to pick up one of your dogs at your age (40's?) and a 60 something possibly not being able to pick up theirs?


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## Sabis mom

selzer said:


> Can these old folks manage large dogs? Jill seems more spry than Joe, but I tried to pick up Kojak a few days ago, and I can't. He is too fricking heavy. A 14 year old dog might need to be picked up to be put in a car or van, and that just might be too much for an older woman to do, to take her with her where she is going


I'm 50 and I help Shadow up and down the stairs daily, today I lifted her into my Durango three times. Last week I lifted her out of a couple of snow banks.


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## Sunsilver

Besides, it's not like the Bidens couldn't afford to get a ramp to help the old dog into the car! Come on, this isn't exactly a huge issue!

I'm 67, and have a sore back, but I can still boost my 70 lb. geriatric shepherd into my SUV.


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## selzer

The back of the truck I was trying to put him was pretty high, and I am 50s, not forties. Should I not own him? Maybe not. But he isn't going to drag me down the street. Sorry. I'm a pretty good boat anchor if I can't bench press the boy. And if I had to, I'd've (I know that's not a word) gotten him in there. But Joe is getting mighty close to 80 because he and my dad are the same age, only my dad seems a lot younger. 80 does not = 40. And, if you had a contest between me and Jill Biden to see which one resembled a heavy-weight boxer, I know who'd win. So don't worry about Kojak. I a trying to fathom why someone would leave their elderly dog to be taken care of by friends, and why OLD people are getting an adolescent, hyper working breed of dog, when they knew full well they did not have the time or energy for that endeavor.


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## WNGD

Sabis mom said:


> I'm 50 and I help Shadow up and down the stairs daily, today I lifted her into my Durango three times. Last week I lifted her out of a couple of snow banks.


Is that Shadow's health requiring you to do that?

I have had 4 dogs over 90 pounds all live to 12-14 and never had to lift them up stairs or needed help to hop into the back on a van or SUV. I can pick up Rogan at 105 pounds but sure wouldn't want to carry him far


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## Sabis mom

WNGD said:


> Is that Shadow's health requiring you to do that?
> 
> I have had 4 dogs over 90 pounds all live to 12-14 and never had to lift them up stairs or needed help to hop into the back on a van or SUV. I can pick up Rogan at 105 pounds but sure wouldn't want to carry him far


Yes. She ruptured right CCL last April and did left one just a few weeks ago. She has a preexisting issue with left front as well. She is running out of legs. Lol.


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## davewis

LuvShepherds said:


> Nothing like using a public event to promote oneself.


Who would love to see a series of videos where Uncle Stonnie relocates from the bluegrass state to the Rose garden for a 3-week live-in training session complete with his mini obstacle course and a pack of dogs?


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## Sunsilver

LOL! So, who would get the job of poop-scooping? 😁


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## middleofnowhere

This is going back a few posts but I have to address the concept that a 70 yo human is somehow too feeble to handle a young GSD. I'm a couple of years younger than the President but I still work two GSDs. One club member at 80 yo (and she was about 1/2 the size of President Biden) worked a large male young GSD in IPO. My neighbor in Wyoming at 80 was climbing on top of his house to fix the swamp cooler. ... That we're over 40 doesn't mean that we're ready for the grave yard or bed confinement.


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## middleofnowhere

And an addendum --- this thread follows the theme of what any two trainers can agree on --- that the third one is doing it all wrong.


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## WNGD

Sabis mom said:


> Yes. She ruptured right CCL last April and did left one just a few weeks ago. She has a preexisting issue with left front as well. She is running out of legs. Lol.


I must have missed that, poor Shadow!
Keep eating your Wheaties an doing curls with her.


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## WIBackpacker

That Cesar article is ridiculous. Especially this: 

"If he’s allowed to move around too much, as a German shepherd he’s going to start ‘patrolling,'” Millan says." 

Uhh..... no. That’s not how it works.

Also, the suggestion that if someone were to throw a ball and allow the dog to bring it back, the dog’s energy will be burned up and he won’t be prone to bite. ALRIGHTY THEN lol.


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## Cassidy's Mom

WIBackpacker said:


> Also, the suggestion that if someone were to throw a ball and allow the dog to bring it back, the dog’s energy will be burned up and he won’t be prone to bite. ALRIGHTY THEN lol.


🤣 We just got home from taking Cava to the park to play Chuckit. She got 10 good throws as far as Tom could heave the ball and ran full speed out and back again every time. She's still panting but she just brought me an Orbee ball, lol. MOAR BALL!!!! I mean, she's not inclined to bite anyone but her energy is definitely not burned up.


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## selzer

I am sure some 70 year olds, and even 80 year olds can manage the dogs. I've sold pups to a couple of folks that were 80. But Joe Biden is not one of those who appears to have the energy/strength to manage a young dog that is already an adolescent. Sorry. maybe he can raise up a puppy, but he looks like an accident waiting to happen. Wait, it already did. As for me lifting the boy, well, I have shingles and can hardly walk right now from the pain. Slinging a 40 pound sack of dog food on my shoulder and taking it to the house -- I can feel it. Lots of pain meds -- sedatives, and picking up the boy wasn't happening. But because I raised him from a pup, he was fine letting the other guy lift him and put him in there.


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## Jenny720

They both look in good shape to me not hefty or over weight. Issues like this happen to people at any age. The people in this article will forever will be able to afford the very best trainers or only the best of assistance. They certainly did great with their first German shepherd. I’m personally not that concerned. German shepherds or many animals can be very humbling. The dogs were already to go to their Delaware home for a temporary stay before this all happened. The dog’s will be back to the White House soon. They are crazy about their German shepherds as many owners are about their dogs. I think it is a good thing. As they most certainly will prevail after this incident. It may teach people not to dump their dogs after the first sign of a challenge. All the dogs rescues out there it is hard to deny that there is an extreme issue because dogs are not perfect out of the box. I certainly would not worry about these two dogs.


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## selzer

Jenny720 said:


> They both look in good shape to me not hefty or over weight. Issues like this happen to people at any age. The people in this article will forever will be able to afford the very best trainers or only the best of assistance. They certainly did great with their first German shepherd. I’m personally not that concerned. German shepherds or many animals can be very humbling. The dogs were already to go to their Delaware home for a temporary stay before this all happened. The dog’s will be back to the White House soon. They are crazy about their German shepherds as many owners are about their dogs. I think it is a good thing. As they most certainly will prevail after this incident. It may teach people not to dump their dogs after the first sign of a challenge. All the dogs rescues out there it is hard to deny that there is an extreme issue because dogs are not perfect out of the box. I certainly would not worry about these two dogs.


I am not worried about them, the dogs, so much as what it will do to our breed, because the attitude too much is, "accidents happen" both with biting incidents and breeding mistakes. No, accidents don't just happen. They happen when a series of events are in play -- you have an unruly, adolescent dog that you aren't bothered about training, you have a bunch of kids you haven't trained yet, you have a broken doorlatch: The kids left the dog out of its safe area in the house, and the mailman came up to put the mail in the box, and the dog busted through the broken screen door and bit him. Accidents happen. Another mailman is bitten and now the dog on the mailman's poster for preventing bites to mailmen is a GSD. Makes our breed look unmanageable, increases fear in people that don't know them. People who have fear of dogs are more likely to get bitten, because they exude the fear pharamone, and often do stuff like back away or run away or yell hysterically at the dog. And the Home Owner's Insurance refuses to insure us because of our choice in dog breed or wants us to pay extra for having the breed.

Yeah, that the Bidens' dog bit someone isn't the end of the world. The dogs will be fine. But it increases that accidents happen baloney. The dog was barking and lunging at people for a while before the bite occurred. The time to address the issue was then. When my young rescue dog was let out of the house by the girls who were visiting, he ran out into the road after my Amish neighbor who was riding his horse down my road. Very dangerous for him, for the horse, and for my dog. I caught the dog and put him back in the house, and within a day or two, put up a gate in front of my front door, so the kids would have to let the dog out AND have left the gate open. This increases the number of events that have to happen before an accident occurs. That was a good four years ago, and so far, the dog has not been in my front yard without being properly leashed. Accidents don't just happen. Accidents (concerning dog bites) are the result of a series of events, that USUALLY include not addressing issues immediately -- long before an actual biting incident occurs.

I don't think the old man looks in good shape. Physically, he isn't overweight, but physically he isn't going to be holding back a young, energetic, untrained GSD from doing exactly what he wants. So the dog has been sent back to Delaware so someone else can care for him and hopefully train him while they are at it before he comes back to the White House. What that will do for Joe and Jill I don't know. Sure if you have all the money that they have, you don't necessarily have to dump your dog if it screws up -- that's all it says. You can buy trainers, and buy staff, and send the dog to your other residence and expect folks to forget and forgive. Whatever. [My last sentence was removed by me because I have an incredible amount of self-control, even under stress that would put down many, and heavy sedatives (which tend to make me say exactly what I think before stopping to think).]

edited to remove some language that is perfectly ordinary for the common people, but here might land me into orbit.


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## Pawsed

Looks can be receiving. This president has always been into fitness and he exercises vigorously at least 5 days a week. He's in better shape than I am by far, and probably fitter than many others of us here.

My better half has the same physical build and has always been into keeping fit. He is deceptively strong, even in his 70's. He could always out work anyone we knew.

We are currently refurbishing and remodeling our entire house, ceilings to floors, and doing all the work ourselves. This includes sanding down all the textured ceilings in every room and re-plastering them smoothly. If you've ever done that kind of work overhead, you will know how strenuous that is. 

Contrary to some opinions, being over 70 doesn't necessarily mean we are on death's door and shouldn't own a young dog.


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## dogma13

@Pawsed we've done a lot of work on our old house too,overhead work is the worst!From articles I've read about pets in the White House over the years, there are always care givers and trainers on hand to assure they have quality care 24/7.


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## car2ner

We all have our own experiences. Some 30 year olds are whimps and some of us more seasoned folks are studs. And vice-versa. The issue is what can the Bidens do and do they need help. Our results will vary. 

Personally I think the media was too vague about the whole thing for it to be of any value. What exactly is a "biting incident"? Did the dog try to bite or just hold the person. Or give a warning nip? Why wasn't the dog restrained with all these folks around? etc. Honestly I think most people have already forgotten about it.


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## Jenny720

@selzer The dogs were not dumped at the other residence- not to repeat myself again but since the dogs have not yet fully adapt to their brand new home they were going to their Delaware home while Jill Biden was away. This was all planned prior to this incident. The Delaware home is where family would take care of the dogs during her travels. The dogs will be coming back to the White House. Jill Biden did not want to stress the dog more by leaving them in care of a stranger.

Your scenario whether that was one of your experiences or not is not the same as Biden’s scenario. The breed is known to have human aggression, it is why home owners insurance is challenging and high.

Most often dog bites, 77% of all documented dog bites including bites from German shepherds happen to be inflicted to members of the same family and often these members of the family are children. I don’t think the Biden’s need to worry about their grandchildren letting loose one of their dogs. Perhaps in the past I have no idea. Not arguing in the least that that many accidents are not a series of events but in addition you can also do absolutely everything perfect - if there is such a thing -and crap can still go down. Some German shepherds are more challenging then others. There are risk to anything that is grand and highly enjoyable. The breed is still one of the most popular breeds. I really don’t think incident is going to destroy the reputation of the breed. It is always best to know your own limits though to.

The other video I just posted shows that Jill Biden, prior to this even has been working with the dogs, religiously. The dog was startled by security and the dog did not break the skin a mark was not left. During the process of her working with the dogs does not include over powering the dogs, but training the dogs and getting them adjusted to their new environment , new surroundings, elevators, people standing around watching them. I’m sure with the heightened energy in the White House security standing around a dog with some degree of suspicion that would certainly be something to work on with a young dog. Going from a quiet home to a highly charged atmosphere is to be an expected adjustment for anyone. A teacher and a president of the United States know which kind of energy to harness to achieve their personal goals. 

I agree with we have our own experiences in regards to what who is fit and evaluating that. I know some people who are up in age are in much better shape then some 20 year olds. If anything, getting a German shepherd can be be a good motivator for getting in good shape. ( I myself need to get in better shape and my dogs are going to help me get there) As long as the dogs are adequately exercised is the major issue in regards to health.

Biden’s dogs, I know will live the following years in the White House successfully. Who cares if they need some help in regards to experience. We all were there and no one jumped out of the box knowing all they needed to know. There is always so much to learn. Life is filled with going backward and then forward- no matter who it is. No one was hurt in this situation. I have no doubt the final results will be a success- the want and dedication is there.








First Lady Jill Biden Has Been 'Obsessed' with Getting Dogs Champ and Major 'Settled' at the White House


Champ and Major Biden are the new stars of the White House




people.com


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## selzer

For the past year, the Bidens have had security guards and elevators and staff. Actually, since he was VP under President Obama, he may have had secret service all this time. I do not know. But once he became the democrat candidate the family has been protected, and by the time the dogs got to The White House, this should have been a non-issue, as are elevators and such. 

Elevators. We have 2 elevators in Jefferson which is the nearest town to where I live, and my dogs have not been in either, but when I worked at my sister's building in Cleveland, Babs came with me every day except when she was in heat and then Heidi or Mufasa or one of the others came. And none of them had trouble with an elevator the very first time they went into it. If their dog needs to be conditioned to elevators, ah well, it's all pretty crazy.


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## dogma13

We should all be so fortunate to have stable go anywhere dogs.Seems the Bidens are putting in the effort to "work with the dog in front of them".


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## selzer

dogma13 said:


> We should all be so fortunate to have stable go anywhere dogs.Seems the Bidens are putting in the effort to "work with the dog in front of them".


To go further with my accidents-are-a-series-of-events, the first event was adopting an 18 month old rescue, large breed, high energy dog when he was on the campaign trail. Who does that? It was a dumb move that paid off, and now we're giving them kudos for "working with the dog in front of them." It never should have been in front of them. 

Since no one was seriously hurt, maybe the intelligent and responsible thing to do is to GIVE the dog to someone who has the time and knowledge to work with and properly care for the dog. Not to keep the dog at the White House or in the Delaware residence in care of others in either place. But of course, then folks would see it as them dumping the dog for having a biting incident. 

It is so frustrating. So many dogs stay in situations they are not suited for and are set up to fail because of this stupid idea that getting a dog is a forever thing. Of course when you get the dog you should think that it will spend it's life with you, but if life happens, changes happen, the dog just doesn't seem to be getting its needs met and someone else might be a better fit for the dog, than for Heaven's sake give them the dog. At the end of the day if the dog is better off, if the old owner is better off, and if the new owner is better off, than it's not a bad thing.


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## dogma13

You may be right! I don't have enough real facts about the dogs and people's day to day lives and relationships to do much more than speculate and wish them the best


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## Cassidy's Mom

The Bidens adopted Major in November 2018, after fostering him for several months. His litter was born in January 2018 and surrendered to the shelter so he was about 10 months old when they brought him home. Champ would have just turned 10 years old, he was born in October 2008, and it's likely that played a role in their decision to get another dog when they did. Also, Joe Biden announced his candidacy in April 2019, so no, he did not adopt Major while he was on the campaign trail.


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## SuperG

They have a couple of dogs......like millions of other people....except the millions of other people are not the POTUS and FLOTUS......I'll wager the dogs don't know the difference.


SuperG


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## selzer

Cassidy's Mom said:


> The Bidens adopted Major in November 2018, after fostering him for several months. His litter was born in January 2018 and surrendered to the shelter so he was about 10 months old when they brought him home. Champ would have just turned 10 years old, he was born in October 2008, and it's likely that played a role in their decision to get another dog when they did. Also, Joe Biden announced his candidacy in April 2019, so no, he did not adopt Major while he was on the campaign trail.


There is so much information floating around. I heard the dog was 18 months old when they adopted him, which would have put it at around July of 2019, which would have been during the run for the presidency. If that is not true than it's not. 

What is best for the dog now, though? The POTUS and FLOTUS, have many constant demands on them. Which begs the question should a young dog be constantly taken care of by "friends" or be found more suitable ownership. No one can tell them what to do with their dog, but if they did choose to give the dog to someone they trusted to give him a stable home environment, I would not see that as a negative thing.


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## Sabis mom

There are millions of people whose dogs are largely in the care of walkers, nannies, maids and sitters. They are fine. 
@selzer your dislike of these particular people is showing. The dogs are fine. I sincerely doubt that they have ever lived a lifestyle of having owners with them 24/7.


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## Cassidy's Mom

selzer said:


> There is so much information floating around. I heard the dog was 18 months old when they adopted him, which would have put it at around July of 2019, which would have been during the run for the presidency. *If that is not true than it's not.*


It's not. My information is from an article in Time Magazine at the time they adopted Major, and a FB post by the Delaware shelter he came from, so it's verifiably accurate.

And that's the problem these days, there's so much false information going around, people believe it without verifying, especially if it fits in with their biases, and they form opinions based on things that simply aren't true. Numerous people on this thread have gotten Champ's age wrong too. It's really not hard to find accurate information if people care about that, regardless of the topic.


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## WNGD

Does Jill Biden have to travel often? Why?
With Joe's schedule, you'd want one owner of 2 GSD to be home most often.


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## dogma13

We really can't discuss the Biden family here. It's easy to Google if you're curious.


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## Pawsed

Lots of people travel and still have dogs. Who cares for your dogs when you go away?

I really don't understand all the drama about this non biting incident.


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## Lexie’s mom

An update: https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-says-major-german-shepherd-135010396.html


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## Sabis mom

Lexie’s mom said:


> An update: https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-says-major-german-shepherd-135010396.html


Completely responsible pet ownership. I applaud the actions and also the complete acceptance of responsibility. Nice to see and a great example for others.


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## berno von der seeweise

somebody said:


> At the end of the day if the dog is better off, [ ]


 pardon me if I'm _so over the politics_ but imho, that's the only thing that really matters

happens all the time. Dog ain't a good fit? Find it a good fit. Case closed.


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## Bearshandler

This has been an interesting thread to watch.


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## Lexie’s mom

From what I’ve read today, Biden was away for 2 days and his wife was also traveling for 4 days at the same time and that’s why the dogs were back in Delaware, not because they were banned from the WH. Just some media hype.


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## middleofnowhere

On today's article -- it seems this was a mouthing "incident" .... so in effect nbd and yes those are intentionally small letters instead of caps. So far as impairing the image of the breed, oh please give me a break. If they were a pair of poodles (standard ones please) this would not have even been a flicker. I think it is good for people to see the breed in the White House again.


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## LuvShepherds

It’s been spun to the point we don’t know what happened. I don’t think for a minute it was a one off, but because this is political we can’t really discuss it as we would if it was someone else. We’ve seen people show up here with a dog that ”didn’t really bite” and then it bites someone, or growls at a family member or worse, we invariably say or make the assumption they are not very good with the dog they have. But, as Dogma said above, we don’t have the details and don’t know what happened. That said, the new reality is disturbing. If it was not really a bite, then why was a big deal made out of it? I would like to hear from the person who was “mouthed and not bitten.” Otherwise, anything we saying still sheer speculation.


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## coolgsd

dogma13 said:


> @Pawsed we've done a lot of work on our old house too,overhead work is the worst!From articles I've read about pets in the White House over the years, there are always care givers and trainers on hand to assure they have quality care 24/7.


I saw the op-ed with biden's dog appearing to be limping in the hind quarters. It looked like the dog was at the end of the line and not get "quality"care.


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## Cassidy's Mom

coolgsd said:


> I saw the op-ed with biden's dog appearing to be limping in the hind quarters. It looked like the dog was at the end of the line and not get "quality"care.


Different dog. Champ is nearly 12-1/2 years old. Have you ever had a geriatric shepherd? Our Keefer didn’t look that great when he was old, he’d lost a lot of muscle strength and even on an anti-inflammatory he didn’t get around that well. His hearing and vision were going. But he was happy and well cared for.


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## Whiteshepherds

LuvShepherds said:


> That said, the new reality is disturbing. If it was not really a bite, then why was a big deal made out of it? I would like to hear from the person who was “mouthed and not bitten.” Otherwise, anything we saying still sheer speculation.


The house in question has journalists and photographers present pretty much 24/7. Maybe it was a slow news day?


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## selzer

If it was anyone else, we would be expecting the people were down-playing the actual incident and giving their dog a pass. But whatever. I don't like the Bidens and if it shows it shows. I was trying to apply what I thought about it as though they were anyone else which is very difficult because the lives of POTUS and FLOTUS isn't quite like anyone else. There are ALWAYS going to be a stream of strangers in the complex and around them. And they are going to be traveling a lot. And they probably are going to be way too busy to spend any real time training their dog. 

Dogs primarily cared for by dog walkers or nannies or servants/staff -- what's the point? 

So hopefully this is a wake up call to be more alert about what the dog might do. I don't think training will help this, especially training by a third party. Training by the owners, maybe, because it increases the bond the dog has to them and they to the dog, and the dog may learn to trust them more (so he doesn't go to biting, snapping or "mouthing"), and they will be more likely to know what the dog can handle and be more attuned to the environment. I just do not see them having that kind of time. Not because I dislike them, but because the job has incredible demands. 

I have young dogs currently in the care of a friend. But my ancient/older dogs are still being cared for by me. Because old dogs should be with their person. Not with staff. Not with friends. They do not have to be with their person constantly, but the routine of the day ought to include the dog's person. Or why get a dog? Old dogs do not demand much. They do not need a ton of exercise. They are generally trained at that point and unlikely to take a chunk out of anyone. They do a lot of laying around. Would their old dog prefer to be with the younger dog, shuttled back to the residence to be cared for by friends, or to be with its people whether the younger dog is around or not? 

We talk about the biting or non-biting incident, but what I want to know is what happened directly after the "mouthing" incident. Ok, wait a minute, puppies might mouth. Adult dogs shouldn't be mouthing strangers when startled by an unknown person around a corner. The dog was either protecting his person or self or not. If he was protecting, than maybe a snap that partially connected. A snap is kind of the last behavior before a bite. A dog might bite a family member with a lot of bite inhibition to communicate their dislike of something. That would be an indication of mouthing that owners should take seriously because the dog is getting away with murder and it would be time to nip that in the bud. But a stranger, ah well. But after the bite what happened. If we have a dog that is uncomfortable with strangers, startled into "mouthing", which has the "mouthed" person (who did receive first aid there at the White House), retreating. Then we have a dog that used its teeth/mouth to get an unwanted person to go away and it worked. The next mouthing incident might be stronger and quicker. A dog that is startled into mouthing and needs to be conditioned to elevators, I dunno, yeah the dog can be worked with, but that kind of work takes time and should be done by the owners who don't have time. Management is always on the top of my list because keeping others safe, keeps our dogs safe, and that can be done well in advance of the dog being 
"trained" not to "mouth."

Who get's first aid when skin isn't broken, when it comes to a dog biting issue? 
What to believe. Yes we all believe what narrative fits our biases, and a lot of folks on here are believing the narrative that fits their bias as much as I am.


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## Jenny720

The people that get that kind of care are the White House secret service. I would imagine it is a common courtesy that is more readily available to people if one was the president of the USA. It is a brilliant move if one really thinks about it to take good care of the people who protect you. It’s all how you decide how to look at it. You will always have many different perceptions viewed depending on the what kind of glasses one is looking through. It’s obvious through these news media stories about the dogs and even this thread. I agree if this was a poodle or a doodle this would not even be a story. Perhaps a slow day for the news world or perhaps a day the amount of viewers needed to be boosted. What I did read from day one is no skin was broken. As Cassidy’s mom said it the facts are out there one just has to clearly look. It has been pretty clear to me as always the Biden’s love their dogs no matter what all the nay sayers say. Not only do they love their dogs but they take the time to work with the dogs and most certainly spend quality time with the dogs and most certainly enjoy their dogs. So it was clear to me that the dogs would be back in the White House. Perhaps some people forget that often young children are often part of the White House family and most certainly are not neglected and time , quality care, love , discipline , education can be certainly made for accessible to them if it is a priority. In this particular case their are no young children running through the White House but two dogs who are enjoyed and well taken care of by their responsible owners who are willing to seek out and get any help that is needed.


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## Whiteshepherds

Most dogs spend the majority of their time in the same environment; their house, their yard, their people. They become acclimated to their surroundings and as owners it's not uncommon for us to not see faults in temperament, training issues that need to be resolved etc. because as long as we're in our own little worlds and everything is running smoothly, it's all good. It's only when our assumptions and dogs are put to the test in real time, real life, that we actually see the truth. 
Am I the only person in the world who thought one thing about a dog and was surprised to see something happen that was totally out of character that left me thinking "Where the heck did that come from"? The only person who thought one thing and learned differently thanks to a trainer, mentor etc.?

Maybe this is what's happening with Major. Maybe he was the best dog ever in his own world and that's what his owners saw. We don't know. Moving a dog from a regular household into the White House would be like moving that dog into a shopping mall...lots of changes to adjust to. The only thing the owners can do is try to identify the problem and then correct it. I'm guessing Majors free pass to roam the house and grounds at will have been curbed at least for the time being.


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## LuvShepherds

As ambassadors of the breed due to circumstances, they should do whatever they must to train and acclimate those dogs or the dogs should not be there in “our” house. I’m surprised at how determined we are to assume they are excellent dog owners and that this was a minor incident. We should expect more. As Selzer and I both posted, if it was anyone else, we would not be brushing it aside as unimportant, nor would we compliment the owners on their obviously poor choices. This is not a political thread, or should not be, it’s about the impressions the public will get of our breed and how they should behave and how we as owners should handle our dogs. We should expect more of ourselves as well.


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## dogma13

Small difference - the family didn't post here for advice. We have absolutely no idea what the facts are and unable to ask for clarification as usual. Some are feeling optimistic and wishing them well, while others fear they have gotten in over their heads. Let's put it to rest for now.


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