# "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems?



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Has anyone ever used one before? 

This isn't something to substitute good training and management, NILIF, working with the dog, etc. This is for when the dog has an underlying physical/chemical/neuro issue that makes behavior problematic. 

Has anyone had a consult with a veterinary behaviorist? A vet who specialises in behavioral issues with physical cause?

Grimm has high arousal. It's paired, as it usually is, with low impulse control. When he sees something he wants to do, his arousal level skyrockets to the point that HE cannot get it under control. It doesn't matter if it is getting into a waiting taxi, or walking up to greet a dog or person-- he is unable to control the yammering, vibrating, current of arousal. He can be forced to walk at heel up to the taxi-- but he is ready to explode at each step of the way, desperately trying to fight the surging tide of rising arousal, and it is a HUGE, _overwhelming _struggle for him. 

We've found a trainer, I believe, who will work ongoing with us over the longterm. We'll use what tools and methods help Grimm best. (although, Grimm has already had advanced training-- it isn't that he doesn't know what to do, or hasn't been required to do it-- his arousal levels skyrocket beyond his control when he is onlead and sees what he eagerly wants to do)

But, this is the way that Grimm is wired, and we need to find a way that allows Grimm to gain control of his own arousal levels.

The overpowering, all-consuming urge to bolt towards other dogs in greeting, lunge up the stairs to the bus, charge towards the taxi. This vibrating current of extreme arousal is the base of our problems. It isn't a matter of "just don't let him do that." The arousal levels overwhelm HIM. Grimm is a puppylike, immature 3 now. Maturity will help, longterm training will help. But, I want to address the underlying problem too, to give Grimm a fair chance at being able to walk towards something he wants to do, without the yammering. vibrating, pre-explosion arousal. It's hard on him, because (thank God) this is a dog who CRAVES doing the right thing. And in life, there will always be things that set off his arousal level when he sees something he wants to do but cannot.

These veterinary behaviorists use meds to help even out the swings and extremes in arousal. I don't like the idea at all of meds like that for my dog. (especially because this is not a nyper, pacing, restless dog at all, he's a blob indoors) Perhaps, used for a time, it may help him gain control over his arousal levels. I don't know.

Anyone have experience with a veterinary behaviorist?


----------



## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

One of the Vets at the practice we use is a Veterinary Behaviorist (certified, etc.). I would definitely recommend at least speaking to one. She was very understanding with our Cash situation and offered several ideas, exercises, etc.


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thanks, Shel. I'm looking into contacting one at some point. It's good to hear that you've had a good experience with one.


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I used to work with a vet who was a certified behaviorist as well. She does have a blog: http://petbehaviorcolumn.blogspot.com/

I don't think all vet behaviorists automatically jump to medication to help a dog. Some dogs DO need some medication to get them below 'that level' so that they can begin to learn. Some don't. Some need to be on meds for the rest of their lives and others do not. It's up to the vet to make that determination. I would say give it a shot. It might just be the help you need!


----------



## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

Patti, I have not used a Veterinary Behaviorist, but one suggestion to try while you're waiting to see one is Dr. Karen Overall's Protocol for Relaxation. http://www.dogscouts.org/Protocol_for_relaxation.html

When I first saw this, it looked kind of silly, but decided to give it a try. It's something you need to do to appreciate. You start at home. When your dog is doing well there, you take it on the road (where people will think you are absolutely nuts!) to different locations with different levels of distraction. It teaches your dog how to relax and defer to you no matter what else is going on around him.

Luther and I have been doing this for some months now and I really like the results I see. We are much more "together" when something takes his fancy because he is learning how to relax when something exciting is happening around him. It takes a while, but it can really help. Dr. Overall uses this protocol as a base/prerequisite for other work with reactive, fearful, aggressive, etc. dogs. 

Just something to consider while you're waiting. It wouldn't be the whole solution, but might be a valuable adjunct.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I think bringing on a reputable professional with another way of looking at a situation is always a good idea. I do agree with you that at 3 yrs old, Grimm should be acting more mature. If he's not, **maybe* * something isn't quite right, something that a sophisticated vet will pick up on. Thyroid, endocrine, vitamin or mineral deficiency or abundance.. I don't know...There are so many things that make the brain what it is and do what it does, a specialist can almost certainly shed some light on this. 

I look for outside the box thinking. The thing is, we may all be stuck inside the box (we're never quite sure if we are); so the more views we can get, the more we can be sure that we're assessing a situation correctly from all angles. 

It may be that Grimm needs a little bit of this; a whole lot of that; a tiny do-hicky, a dusting of the secret dust, and a gallon of the magic elixir, If we go to just one or two reputable practitioners (clicker trainers, traditional trainers, vets, etc), we may not get the EXACT combination that Grimmy needs. 

Does that make sense? I think there is a possibility that we can overwhelm our dogs if we do TOO Much to them (novice dog owners can do this easily) . But you know Grimm's brain rather well, and you have a good idea of what to discard as being inappropriate. So I would meet with the Behaviorist and see what s/he says. 

I also like Dr. Karen Overall's Protocol for Relaxation. I'm using it with on both of my youngsters. It's something you can start immediately. Plus, it's free.







So if I were you, I'd give that a try as well. 

Not in lieu of the veterinary behaviorist -- in addition to.


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Jamie, Martie, and Lori-- Thank you so much for the input! I love the Dr Overall protocol. I have it saved in my "favorites," and intend to start that with Grimm. Who knows, it might help.

Lori, I think it may end up being a bit of this and a bit of that. I do notice that at age 3, he is immature, although his breeder did warn me to expect a "puppy in the head" until he was at least 4 with these ultra-slow-maturing lines. Still, even so, the high arousal level is something other than slow maturity.

Jamie, I am open to meds. I just want him to have a chance at being able to control his arousal levels.

It's ironic, this is a dog who can pick up dropped objects, do directed retrieve, a hold-and-carry at heel of all sorts of difficult objects. Yet, if he sees something he wants to do-- greet a dog or get into a car-- he can't stop his arousal levels from shooting through the roof.

So, homeopathy, diet, Chinese Traditional medicine, I'm open to anything. I look forward to ongoing training with Grimm and a trainer, for deepening our bond. I'm hoping the vet. behaviorist can help find a way to ease the spikes in his arousal levels. He's a great dog who wants to please!


----------



## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

Hi Patti









I know I haven't met Grimm, however have you gotten feed back from the good friends who had the honor of working with him the past few months.

I ask this because my Loki has similar bloodlines, and has some of the same explosive behaviors









I haven't noticed any issues with Loki, other then pure drive, strength and determination. Since I am very mobile and very active, I have the ability to get alot of his energy out of him









My worry for you is the mobility factor, as well as having the strength to handle your tough boy









A few months back I use to use a prong on Loki, then I said to myself that I wanted to go a different way. I have worked very hard on heal, this has helped so much. I can walk him down the street with little issue. Loki also has an explosive reaction to other dogs (more frustration), distance helps, plus timely corrections (medium). My manipulation of the leash (no tension), along with distance and calm energy have also given me much success. I barely speak a word (more of a "eh eh"), firm correction or heal, that is it. Loki knows I am in control. I will also say that he will try to test once in a great while, but I address issue asap. He totally reminds me of Grimm, so I wanted to add my thoughts. I know I go against most posters, but I also have family from Grimm, so I can see some of this abit better









The biggest thing you and Chuck taught me, prior to getting Loki, was a calm, assertive approach, this has helped so much. 

If Loki was given a hard correction, he would be amped up, so redirection is best. I also don't make a big deal out of anything, it would probably feed his energy. I just take some of "what shamu taught me about love" theory (for humans







, I just act so non chalant about things (the more reaction you give to him, the more he would act out)-Loki, so I have this down pretty good.

I think if he had some sort of outlet, this would be best. I think calming methods would be nice, but IMO his bloodlines/type of dog he is, is the reason he is the way he is









I wish I lived up buy you, I would drain this boy, he would be sleeping half the day. 

I think my very structured day/schedule help a ton.

I hope my thoughts didn't upset you, 

Have a great night.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

"Yet, if he sees something he wants to do-- greet a dog or get into a car-- he can't stop his arousal levels from shooting through the roof."

I've seen that...lol...he kitty walked (on his toesies) to my car TRYING to walk slow. It was painful to watch! He was trying so hard, I felt cruel but the alternative was to potentially have Grimm and my right arm go to the car, while my body was 20 feet back.














I love him though! 

Patti-you are nearish to Tuft's! That would be AWESOME! Isn't it Dr. Dodman who is there? 

I mean, you've had Ruq and Jess see him, in a dream world, I would want Chris and Lisa to see him with their WL eyes...but in addition to have that perspective added would be nice. 

I am going to check out that link. I have a couple helium releasing balloons that look like dogs flying around the house myself!


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Heyas, Jack and Cousin Loki!















You're right about a calm, in control 'tude helping in general. It makes some difference in general for Grimm. His sudden, out-of-nowhere amping up however, is a seperate thing.







Grimm isn't even very drivey. He's only medium drive, medium energy. Indoors, he's _a blob_.







Weirdest is, draining his energy is easy, but only makes him even more bloblike indoors. It doesn't impact the sudden zero-to-60 intensity that suddenly spikes when he wants to do something. Most workingline dogs have higher drive, higher energy than Grimm. But, I think you're right, high arousal maybe can be more often found in WL dogs, I bet! Jack I think I could understand this better if he were a pacing, panting, active dog with more drive. He's a blob until he sees something he wants to do, then it happens so fast to him. What I can do is lend him my strength and calm, as you suggest. That calm, however, tends to abandon me when I think I'm about to be rocketed away, though.









Jean, I apologize a gazillion times over! Do you have one arm really really LONG now, and one super-teeny?









Dr Dodman, yes, he is at Tufts? He wrote a book about behavioral stuff too, I think. There is also a vet called "Dr. Cookie." She's also a vet behaviorist. I am unsure how to get Grimm to a consult at either place yet.









Jean, he wants so much to please. He himself can't seem to cap his arousal level when he sees a dog to greet or a car to go for a ride in. He craves being good, so much.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Nah, I alternated arms so they are both longer now.









http://www.tufts.edu/vet/behavior is the Tuft's link. I don't even think you need a referral? They seem pretty open to self-referring?

He does want to please. That's the hard part. You can see the effort he's making. But yowza, the strength of a horse. He does well with the deep voice stuff, but I know there has to be another way to get consistently good behavior without the explosions. (always makes me think of the phrase explosive diarrhea...always back to







but...a good example nonetheless!)


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

My thread got awarded a Dancing Poop Banana! YAY!!







Thank you!









I peeked at the link, Jean. It looks like 2 behavioral vets, 2 applied animal behaviorists (I think that's kinda sorta like Patricia McConnel), and lots of experience. This looks promising.

I have no idea how to get us there. I will somehow find the money for it. This is why I returned from Germany, to find a way (or several ways) to help Grimm. Somehow, hopefully, we'll find a way.


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Hmmm, well, on thinking about it, I may have to settle for a closer vet that I can get to via Dial-a-Ride making a phone consult with Tufts. I'd really much rather he be seen at Tufts for this, though.


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I'll vouch for Grimm's lack-of-long-term-energy. I couldn't believe how he was _done_ with Wubba chasing in about 10 minutes time. Risa is only getting started!!!

He really DOES want to please and really DOES know how to control himself. Sometimes. He was so non-stop energy and excitement when I'd let him out of his kennel. If I tried to pet him, he was yodeling and licking. If I ignored him and waited for calm behavior before petting him, he quickly picked up on what was expected. "If I am sitting nicely and calm, I will get petted." Same with the door. In only a couple sessions (I only had him for a day, after all), he learned that sitting nicely at the door = going outside.

Patti, with the dedication you show to your loving Doofinator, I am sure you guys will make progress.


----------



## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Really?
Guess I'm done now.


----------



## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Patti,

We had a few Czech bloodline GSD's at work, and they all seemed to be just like Grimm. Very explosive and "spikes", Loki is exactly like this as well. LOL, I will shut up after this post, but I don't think anything is wrong with him. I just seem him and these dogs as serious dogs, with a serious outlet when they choose. Loki could just be sitting there, then all of a sudden his is in full battle mode, impressive if you ask me









I know that I had a few conversations with West German (WL) breeders, and a few of them made negative comments about the Czech bloodline. There basic negative comment was "freak"









Both Jaspers breeder (in Germany) and a guy who runs a local Schutzhund club by me, both used the exact word, and the Schutzhund guy didn't want a Czech bloodline in the club, not good enough (their "crazy in the head)


----------



## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Patti I have to give you kudos for all the work you have put into Grimm. He deserves a great owner like you. 

Hopefully maybe you can find transportation for a behaviorist. I have never used one but their input sure could not hurt.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Just curious Patti, what other type of collars have you use on him? Have you used a front clip? How about a head halter?

Have you been able to try a clicker on him?


----------



## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Patti, Loki has his yearly exam on tuesday, I will ask my doc her opinion. She is very hollistic, and studied behavior (she is trying to get our office) to take on this. 

She also does acupuncture, I think she uses this method for it, can't be positive. 

LOL, Patti, don't you just love our little Czech dogs, they are so cute and huggable









BTW, does Grimm burp after dinner? Loki burps like he just downed a soda or a draft beer







(too funny).


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Murphy-ElperroguapoI'll vouch for Grimm's lack-of-long-term-energy. I couldn't believe how he was _done_ with Wubba chasing in about 10 minutes time. Risa is only getting started!!!
> 
> He really DOES want to please and really DOES know how to control himself. Sometimes. He was so non-stop energy and excitement when I'd let him out of his kennel. If I tried to pet him, he was yodeling and licking. If I ignored him and waited for calm behavior before petting him, he quickly picked up on what was expected. "If I am sitting nicely and calm, I will get petted." Same with the door. In only a couple sessions (I only had him for a day, after all), he learned that sitting nicely at the door = going outside....


I think there are some important keys in here!!


----------



## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Murphy-Elperroguapo
> 
> I don't think all vet behaviorists automatically jump to medication to help a dog.


Dr. King uses medication as a last resort


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

A calm leadership attitude helps Grimm best calm himself, but I still see stress responses, scratching, yammering, yawning, vibrating when he wants something. Exploding, too.









I have a trainer we will be meeting with, and start together working in a few weeks. I'm doing better with Grimm than i was, but have a ways to go yet.

Jack, thanks for thinking of us with the holistic stuff. It can't hurt! Grimm is as snuggly as Loki. No burps, though!









Kathy, I really appreciate the encouragement. A lot. 

Possibly, a behaviorist can add to my gameplan for training/attending to our working relationship and enhance things by helping Grimm, too.


----------



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Patti,

Good thread you started here. I don't mean to highjack your thread or anything, but our rescue boy Shadow has very high arousal when it comes to seeing other dogs. He gets so worked up whining (when he see another or just hears their tags jiggle in the petstore) it sounds like I'm killing him. He does this also really with any type of critter, he sees, he wants. Used to go grab the toads when they would hop, he learned his lesson there. If it moves, he wants.

He also gets mouthy when you start a 4-wheeler, barking & barking at it & he will try to grab at it. Used to be this way with the mower, etc, but we have got him better with this.

Excitement fuels him.......... Gets to the point if I try to give him a treat or try to get his focus, it doesn't work.

In agility class, he does ok, but there is a male Aussie in there & this dog is excited, will yap around & he will try to go dart at him. Not sure what to make of this at all & something I have never dealt with.

He at home inside & out if he don't spot something is so lazy, gentle, calm, & very laid back. It's like a switch gets turned on.









So arousal, I guess I have one also & just me trying to help him cope with it. Sometimes it's not as bad as others. He will go meet/greet other dogs, but is pushy with them IMO. 

He was able to go to his first 2 day rally trial, but BOY did I have to keep putting the treats in his mouth to keep his focus & keep him quiet while around all them different dogs.


----------



## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Heel, focus, along with my very careful manipulation of leash control helped Loki through reactions.


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Jen, he sounds like someone I know.







Jack, heeling seems to help so I'll be implementing that as well! Thanks for your input. You do a great job with LokiMonster!


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*



> Originally Posted By: LisaT How about a head halter?


Jess told me she had great success using one of her guide dog in training head/nose halti type things on him.


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Only in combo with a choke does this work for Grimm and I together. We'll try the combo when we have a different lead that I am able to hold. Since each handler is different, one with impairments needs to make adaptations for what equipment/methods he or she can manage. 

This really isn't about a tool or method, but about helping him with stress/arousal levels. We've a trainer lined up, and tools in mind-- so helping Grimm's stress responses and arousal levels are what we'll also working towards hollisticly. It's in addition to the training and tools. It's covering all bases, and giving Grimm the best chance to be able to handle stress. The yammering, scratching, whining, vibrating and other displacement behaviors are very clear to see, a few trainers have commented on them. So, I addition to working on my leadership skills, maintaining a training regimen with our trainer, we'll address a behavioral/holistic side, too.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*



> Originally Posted By: BrightelfThis really isn't about a tool or method, but about helping him with stress/arousal levels. We've a trainer lined up, and tools in mind--



But the tools help condition how he reacts to those stressors. 

I know in TTouch, they used the two collar method (collar and head halter), and I think a double latch leash. For reactive dogs, it worked great. Certainly not something for the longterm, but used for initial training. I know there are all sorts of creative things that are being done. 

What kind of tools is this new trainer talking about?


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

They sure do, Lisa. We'll know which tools we'll be using once we begin training with her. The trainer will see over time what works with my poorly coordinated, weak hands, balance issues, etc. For an impaired handler, it's a matter of finding the right tool for that handler. Limitations must be taken into consideration. After we've successfully been training/working together with our trainer, the behaviorist will possibly then be added. LOVE TTouch. Youtube has great vids, too.


----------



## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

I used the halti on Missy when I first got her 
she was so overly excited and dog aggressive and you couldn't walk her slap the halti (gentle leader) and it was like walking a different dog.

Mind you Missy had NO training what so ever and she weighed more then me. It was a god send with it and I know Jess had great luck with it on Grimm


----------



## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

oh also Patti have you thought about getting hem Neutered
that would calm him down some too


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Dawn as I mentioned,


Brightelf said:


> Only in combo with a choke does this work for Grimm and I together. We'll try the combo when we have a different lead that I am able to hold. Since each handler is different, one with impairments needs to make adaptations for what equipment/methods he or she can manage.
> 
> I'm fairly sure if issues were instead marking, humping, dogfighting, dominance aggression, etc we'd address those with a snip.
> 
> ...


----------



## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

I understand that but Brady neing intact I know whats up
and once we had Missy spayed she did an 180
I think it would be in your best interest to get him snipped
It would calm him down

because the Protect their territory if not
has nothing to do with waht you are saying Brady has never humped, or marked but he does let other UNNUETERD males know he ain't putting up with them


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Luckily, he's pretty calm in general. He's also fine with unneutered males as he hasn't a high dominance agenda. He's also not territorial at all. I keep hoping someday he'll bother to bark at the door. No luck.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Patti, I've been giving this some more thought. We've chatted before that Grimm is very much like Mien Luther was. Luther needed certain things to be whole, as I suspect Grimm does. 

So I thought about some of the things Luther needed to function as a working dog. Of course his work was different than what's expected of Grimm but work non the less. (Luther was a PPD, he took it very seriously. I only trained him for it becuase some fool who had him before did a halfhiney job that needed to be fixed)

Luther to the day he died had to wear a prong collar to take a walk. He had wonderful OB. When we went to friendly rally O competitions (well they were supposed to be friendly lol), he always came in first. His work was stellar, he could compete in a flat buckle collar because he was focused. Get him on the street, a bunny or delightfully raunchy month old donut covered with mold and ants could distract him.

Not saying Grimm belongs back with Jess but he may have thrived there with constant canine companionship. Now he's back with Mom and starved for dogs (or possibly cats) to hang out with. Not saying you should get another dog to make him whole/happy. 

Maybe a planned play date every week or an OB training club where he could see his dog friends and do a little work. Luther HAD to have that in his life. When I was pregnant and physically couldn't do it, his life was lacking. As was his life without another dog in the house - it was so bad after Gideon died, Luther would cry in his sleep. Luther needed other dogs. When we were out in the park and another dog would approach, I taught him to downstay and make himself very small. He would always be wagging excitedly but it wasn't like when he was 2 and he HAD to bound over to see that dog.

The taxi. Hmm. Remember the volkswagon commercial, they're german they like to ride? It's a tough one, Morgan is 8 doesn't really like long rides but she still gets looney when she sees her car harness come out.

What about a job he has to do on the way to the taxi, keep him focused on task? Could be something that isn't really important that you bring along but he has to carry something that's difficult for him to carry (heavy)? He does well with holding things in his mouth.

Sorry but a child is here wanting me to hang his art up so I've lost my train of thought.


----------



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Patti,

Just curious, was Grimm a rescue or did you get him as a pup ?


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*



> Originally Posted By: SunCzarina.... (Luther was a PPD, he took it very seriously. I only trained him for it becuase some fool who had him before did a halfhiney job that needed to be fixed)


I've thought of training this way with Max, for the same reason. These idiots that don't know what they are doing...



> Quote:...Not saying Grimm belongs back with Jess but he may have thrived there with constant canine companionship. Now he's back with Mom and starved for dogs (or possibly cats) to hang out with. Not saying you should get another dog to make him whole/happy.
> 
> Maybe a planned play date every week or an OB training club where he could see his dog friends and do a little work. Luther HAD to have that in his life.


I think that this is an excellent thought. I found that once I was able to get Max with other GSDs this last summer, he got better with each outing. 

I think some of that is because the communication is so clear too, stress is relieved, the world makes better sense. I suspect, that with "mom", those reactive behaviours, he thinks are the appropriate behaviours. It most likely is a source of stress - he is getting what he thinks are conflicting signals, because, as he understands it, he is doing his job, but continues to get corrected for it. With the pack, that doesn't happen.

I do suspect that Grimm really needs a "dog" outlet, or a "dog", they are the best teachers.


----------



## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Great thread... and helpful in re-assuring me that I'm moving the right direction with similar issues I've had with my pup. Unlike most of the GSD's and other breeds I've worked with correction doesn't resolve the issue, but further frustrates him making it worse. Short time out in the crate, or withholding praise/ reward til he's 100% calm and quiet is a new direction, but is much more effective in the long run. It does take more time than to wait the hyper reaction out and let him chill enough to recognize what I want him to do, but he LOVES to please me, and to follow directions so the 5 minutes extra in loading into the car, or getting out of the back door is worth it.

Again thanks for all the positive feedback you're giving Patti, and know it's an aid to others as well.


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

For sure! We've been trying to find a playdate/playgroup situation to have on a regular basis. So far, the willing folks have MinPins and Cavaliers! So, we'll keep looking.







But yes, totally-- the drive to schmooze with other dogs needs to be satisfied to not be so "up." Fortunately, he's never met a dog, person, or cat he didn't love.


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: "Veterinary Behaviorist" for behavior problems*

Forgot to say.. "Hi" to little Ikon, who's not so little anymore!


----------

