# Vet told us feeding raw will shorten her life



## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

We brought Molly in for excessive licking(genitals). He check her over told us she was about 10lbs overweight, he expressed her anal gland and gave her a shot of antibiotics because her privates is red(urine sample found he said some bacteria). He said her fur was dry (straw like) and was lacking omega fatty acids. We will up her daily fish oil but I fine her fur shiny and soft. Anyway we got talking about her raw diet (he does not agree with it at all) and he told us that feeding raw will shorten her life from 10 to 12 years and that a good kibble is much healthier and that she would live up to 14 years

How old did your GSD live on Raw?


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Her is a recent picture of her do you think she is over weight?

View attachment 14390


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Are you feeding raw now? Most vets don't agree with a raw diet...unless they've researched it themselves. My vet is fine with it, as long as the person feeding raw knows what they are doing. 
What did dogs eat before kibble was developed?
To address Molly May's skin/coat...up the oils, vitamin E and C make sure your home has a humidifier during the time the furnace is running. Vitamin C is something I would start now, it is an anti-inflammatory and
anti-histimine. 
I don't have statistics on lifespan of a rawfed dog, but I really don't agree with your vet. Did you ask him where he got his information on this and can you read it to be better informed?
Her pic does make her look a bit heavy. Can you feel a couple ribs? That is usually a better gauge than what she looks like. Especially with a thick winter coat.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

here is another pic!

View attachment 14391


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

I think you need to find another vet. She looks fine to me.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

My raw-fed GSD Tori lived to 14 year. Ianna is 13 years 9 months and still runs around and chases a ball. Mike will be 9 years next month and he's still actively competing in obedience, and flies over the jumps better than many youngsters. 

You might need to find a more open-minded vet!


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> Are you feeding raw now? Most vets don't agree with a raw diet...unless they've researched it themselves. My vet is fine with it, as long as the person feeding raw knows what they are doing.
> What did dogs eat before kibble was developed?
> To address Molly May's skin/coat...up the oils, vitamin E and C make sure your home has a humidifier during the time the furnace is running. Vitamin C is something I would start now, it is an anti-inflammatory and
> anti-histimine.
> ...


Yes I have been feeding raw since about 6mths old she is now 2yrs
I give her shemp oil (a fish oil blend from carmspack) 2 tablespoons a day along with her feed essentials product( check her web site if you would like to see the ingredients)
Thanks I will start up our humidifier it is pretty dry humidity levels are at 29% because of the furnace and will look into Viet E and C.
I never asked him where he got his info (i never thought of it)
there is a bit of meat between her fur and her ribs


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

DunRingill said:


> My raw-fed GSD Tori lived to 14 year. Ianna is 13 years 9 months and still runs around and chases a ball. Mike will be 9 years next month and he's still actively competing in obedience, and flies over the jumps better than many youngsters.
> 
> You might need to find a more open-minded vet!


Thanks you made me feel better seeing the ages 

We have been to a few different vets! I live in a small town with limited amount of vet! And they all try to change my mind but I am very suborn!!


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

just curious but did the vet know she was fed raw BEFORE finding all the stuff wrong with her such as dry coat? A fair amount of vets that are anti raw become annoying because they blame EVERYTHING on raw. I don't need my vet to be all about it but they have to be neutral because otherwise anytime something goes wrong it's your fault for feeding a raw diet. She looks like she might be a little heavy but I wouldn't say 10 lbs of course this is based off a picture but 10 lbs shows quite a bit on a dog winter coat or not. I would love to know where he has his research that raw will shorten the lifespan and how he got his years that feeding kibble is going to add 2 years to her life. Ask him if you switch to kibble and she dies before 14 if he will give you a large sum of money and write it in a contract if he believes it so much.

BTW you have to give vitamin E if you are adding oils to their diet (unless Carmens blend already has it in it I'd ask her)


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

IDK, one of the dogs that I grew up with lived to be 15 years old and he was fed nothing but table scraps. Whatever we had for dinner-he got the leftovers. Believe me he ate a great deal of rice and beans. Not sure were your vet got that from, but if he says your dogs fur is dry then for sure give him the fish oil.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I work at Walgreens, right next to a vet's office. The vets always come in and buy either IAMS, Meow Mix, or Friskies kibble for their cats. Sometimes I want to ask how much research they've done on pet nutrition, but just from their purchases, I can tell what the answer will be - little to none. 

Vets very seldom read into diets, and will suggest foods like Purina, IAMS, Science Diet, etc. 

As far as your girl's body condition - I wouldn't say she's overweight, but she could stand to lose a few lbs.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

onyx'girl said:


> What did dogs eat before kibble was developed?.


The scraps of whatever humans ate. I'm not anti-raw, but before kibble was developed people didn't prepare perfectly balanced raw meals with the right ratios of RMB, OM and recreational bones for their dogs. For the 50-100,000 years after being domesticated and before the devlopment of commercial kibble, dogs ate the unwanted scraps of whatever humans ate-- both raw and cooked bones, cereal grains, meat and dairy that had gone bad, etc. Whatever small animals they could catch. Of course most of those dogs didn't live long healthy lives either.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Konotashi said:


> I work at Walgreens, right next to a vet's office. The vets always come in and buy either IAMS, Meow Mix, or Friskies kibble for their cats. Sometimes I want to ask how much research they've done on pet nutrition, but just from their purchases, I can tell what the answer will be - little to none.
> 
> Vets very seldom read into diets, and will suggest foods like Purina, IAMS, Science Diet, etc.
> 
> As far as your girl's body condition - I wouldn't say she's overweight, but she could stand to lose a few lbs.


 
Ya I am going to reduce her food she weighs 85lbs no more morning treats!!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Emoore said:


> The scraps of whatever humans ate. I'm not anti-raw, but before kibble was developed people didn't prepare perfectly balanced raw meals with the right ratios of RMB, OM and recreational bones for their dogs. For the 50-100,000 years after being domesticated and before the devlopment of commercial kibble, dogs ate the unwanted scraps of whatever humans ate-- both raw and cooked bones, cereal grains, meat and dairy that had gone bad, etc. Whatever small animals they could catch. Of course most of those dogs didn't live long healthy lives either.


Neither did the humans....


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Emoore said:


> The scraps of whatever humans ate. I'm not anti-raw, but before kibble was developed people didn't prepare perfectly balanced raw meals with the right ratios of RMB, OM and recreational bones for their dogs. For the 50-100,000 years after being domesticated and before the devlopment of commercial kibble, dogs ate the unwanted scraps of whatever humans ate-- both raw and cooked bones, cereal grains, meat and dairy that had gone bad, etc. Whatever small animals they could catch. Of course most of those dogs didn't live long healthy lives either.


 
:thinking: humm!! very good piont!!!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

onyx'girl said:


> Neither did the humans....


Exactly.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Holmeshx2 said:


> just curious but did the vet know she was fed raw BEFORE finding all the stuff wrong with her such as dry coat? A fair amount of vets that are anti raw become annoying because they blame EVERYTHING on raw. I don't need my vet to be all about it but they have to be neutral because otherwise anytime something goes wrong it's your fault for feeding a raw diet. She looks like she might be a little heavy but I wouldn't say 10 lbs of course this is based off a picture but 10 lbs shows quite a bit on a dog winter coat or not. I would love to know where he has his research that raw will shorten the lifespan and how he got his years that feeding kibble is going to add 2 years to her life. Ask him if you switch to kibble and she dies before 14 if he will give you a large sum of money and write it in a contract if he believes it so much.
> 
> BTW you have to give vitamin E if you are adding oils to their diet (unless Carmens blend already has it in it I'd ask her)


 Carmen supplements does have vit e and c


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

I would recommend getting another vet. My vet, that visits the house, supports my food choices as long as the dogs are doing fine and it works for them.

Jack is eating Bravo Original Formula. I add some Natures Logic Food Fortifier with it (like Missing link but with whole foods - not synthetic vitamins). He does well and it smells really good. Better than Missing Link. 

When Jack was on ..... Pedigree Beef in the can (only had rice in it as a carb source) he did gain some weight. So I took him off of it and put him back on raw. He is slowly losing the weight. I keep his diet strict with 1/2 of his diet in the AM and 1/2 in the PM. He is funny...he is still hand fed. He does go get some occasional kibble from the dog bowl. But that is rare. His poop is nice and firm.

This summer I will let him have some raw meaty bones to ensure he gets good clean teeth - right now he gets chew / rawhide each day. If I could live his life! Sleep, eat, play, sleep some more, poop, pee, play, get head rubs, eat, play sleep and repeat!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

My dog got fat on raw.
Not every diet is good for every dog.
Your dog does look a bit overweight - feel though, around her ribs. If you can feel a fat pad she is overweight.

Also - are you saying her skin/fur is dry or is the vet? 
It takes just weeks on a new diet to cause a difference in fur so curious if she's having dry fur/skin, I'm not anti raw (my Dachshund was on it and got overweight) but I always hear it cures everything, compared to kibble! 
How is it her skin or fur is dry? Was it that way on kibble?

Also just an interesting note, dogs and cats are still living longer lives, a friend told me last night her cats (4 of them) each lived to be 19 yrs. old and that's eating store-bought kibble, as in, Purina type food!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If a dog gets fat on raw, then you are either over feeding or too much fat is being fed. I can easily adjust my dogs weight just by portion control...I think it is much easier to reduce weight on a rawfed dog than one that eats kibble(fat storage is different?)

I know of a cat that lived to 25 on Iams. My own cat lived to 19 on a the variety that grocery's sell(before the better brands came out) These were both female, not sure if gender makes a difference or not.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> My dog got fat on raw.
> Not every diet is good for every dog.
> Your dog does look a bit overweight - feel though, around her ribs. If you can feel a fat pad she is overweight.
> 
> ...


The vet said her fur is dry! I fine she has a shiny coat she never had a soft coat like a long hair would!


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## gsdheeler (Apr 12, 2010)

Several years ago, I was taking an Competitive Obed. class, one of the students was a DVM her practice was about 20 mins.from me I liked her as a person so, I decided to try her out as my Vet. Big Error in judgment..... On my second visit (I'd just gotten a new addition ) she told me she really didn't think it made a bit of differance in a dogs health what you fed. But of course she wanted me to buy a big bag of Science Diet on the way out. Let's just say I took my puppy to another Vet.
Best advice is if you don't agree with your Vet. find someone you feel confortable with. There are Vets out there who are supportive of raw feeding and know something about K9 nutrition.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

She looks healthy and beautiful... definitely find another vet. I think he is bullying you entirely. The vets I work with on a daily basis do the same thing.

Raw is the healthiest thing you can do for her.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

gsdheeler said:


> Several years ago, I was taking an Competitive Obed. class, one of the students was a DVM her practice was about 20 mins.from me I liked her as a person so, I decided to try her out as my Vet. Big Error in judgment..... On my second visit (I'd just gotten a new addition ) she told me she really didn't think it made a bit of differance in a dogs health what you fed. But of course she wanted me to buy a big bag of Science Diet on the way out. Let's just say I took my puppy to another Vet.
> Best advice is if you don't agree with your Vet. find someone you feel confortable with. There are Vets out there who are supportive of raw feeding and know something about K9 nutrition.


That is funny you say that, the vet point at his shelf of science diet and said if I decided to go back to kibble that he suggests his brand and that it had plenty of omega fatty acid my dog needs


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Wild Wolf said:


> She looks healthy and beautiful... definitely find another vet. I think he is bullying you entirely. The vets I work with on a daily basis do the same thing.
> 
> Raw is the healthiest thing you can do for her.


 
thank you I am really starting to question my decisions about feeding her raw! I just want to do the absolute best for her!!!!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Miss Molly May said:


> That is funny you say that, the vet point at his shelf of science diet and said if I decided to go back to kibble that he suggests his brand and that it had plenty of omega fatty acid my dog needs


There you go...the reason for your vets comments right there. He wants to make $ from the Hills company. I don't think he can ask a grocery store if he can share profits from their meat department.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> There you go...the reason for your vets comments right there. He wants to make $ from the Hills company. I don't think he can ask a grocery store if he can share profits from their meat department.


You are Right!!!! During the visit my wife mentioned to him about Chewy the kitten we rescued and said he(Chewy) got neuter through the rescue organization. My wife said he looked insulted and told her that probably got neutered on a assembly line and it was illegal.


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

I see a nice tuck on Molly's tummy, I think she is beautiful. From a picture it is hard to tell if she is overweight or not, you can feel for her ribs and get a better idea than us.


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## CookieTN (Sep 14, 2008)

When Cookie was about 8 years old I began feeding her higher end kibble, and later on partial raw. At 12, I got comments from people saying that she didn't look like she was 12 at all. They were right, she did look younger than she was.
This is a picture of her from around that time (about a month before she turned 12):
http://www.deviantart.com/download/152702554/Dogs_for_Dummies_by_Colliequest.jpg

At around 12 1/2, she seemed to age quickly. Looked older, constantly had eye boogers (it was hard to keep her eyes clear), lost muscle mass, began developing fecal incontinence, really slowed down, etc.
We had her PST the day before she turned 13.
I do think that her diet helped her live longer than she would have.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

my sisters two labs were raw fed from the age of 4,,they both passed away at age 15, I don't think it was the raw


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I think she's beautiful, this is just my opinion, I think she could lose 3-5 pounds.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

We just found a new vet (hour drive!) and are thrilled with her thus far. She is a raw fan and also stated that surgery is her last resort when needed. This is the 4th vet we've been to in the last couple of years. The hour drive is a problem, but we will work with that. 
We don't currently feed raw, (11 dogs) but will supplement with raw "days" when we can. 
Based on the pic, I would cut your girl back a bit, but I'm a nut about weight and tend to keep my dogs on the athletic side.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> If a dog gets fat on raw, then you are either over feeding or too much fat is being fed. I can easily adjust my dogs weight just by portion control...I think it is much easier to reduce weight on a rawfed dog than one that eats kibble(fat storage is different?)


For us, 1/4 c. kibble twice a day works well for our Dachshunds and it's easy to meter up or down depending on if they need to gain or lose 1/2 lb.
That amt. works well and everyone is the same weight year after year. 
Tristan was getting 1 chicken thigh in the morning and 1/4 cup kibble in the evening. Chicken wings made his poops to dry. 
I think it'd be easier to formulate a plan for a larger dog?

**edited to add, I think the mentality is that raw fed dogs are "leaner" and healthier, ect., but I know they can get chunky no matter what they eat - it's not grains or carbs that do it, it's merely how much they are eating vs. how much they are exercising, just like any animal (including humans!)


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## CookieTN (Sep 14, 2008)

With all due respect, stools from a raw meal are supposed to be dry. (Unless you feed a boneless meal, which usually leads to stool that's too loose.) There is such a thing as too much bone, which can cause constipation, and chicken wings are like 70% bone. (I have a 15 lb dog who has been raw-fed since Sept. 2008.)
Of course, you know your dogs better than anyone else and what works best for them and you, not trying to judge or be rude.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> I think she's beautiful, this is just my opinion, I think she could lose 3-5 pounds.


I think you have good taste We started reducing her food intake today! We will drop her down 5lbs and see how she looks!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

CookieTN said:


> With all due respect, stools from a raw meal are supposed to be dry. (Unless you feed a boneless meal, which usually leads to stool that's too loose.) There is such a thing as too much bone, which can cause constipation, and chicken wings are like 70% bone. (I have a 15 lb dog who has been raw-fed since Sept. 2008.)
> Of course, you know your dogs better than anyone else and what works best for them and you, not trying to judge or be rude.


Thighs were better, more meat per amt. of bone. 
But naw. I thought it would help his teeth and it didn't really do that either (6mos. on raw) so we just do kibble and I brush. They are all in excellent health and body condition (our vets always comment on both teeth and body scores) so I'm happy


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Here is my 13 yr old Cocker Spaniel who's been raw fed for over a decade:


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Here is my girl Neke at 14.5 yrs and raw fed for over a decade:


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

thanks for sharing Laurie!!


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

she is down 3lbs woo hoo!!!!


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