# Concerns about Canidae Food....



## tre_ (Nov 18, 2008)

About a month ago I picked up some Canidae ALS food for my 4 month old puppy as a few people on this forum and other places recommended it. She seemed to like it okay although sometimes she would only eat some of it so I would remove the dish until her next feeding... didn't seem like a huge deal as she was being fed three times a day and more often than not ate well.

Now I probably should have done this BEFORE buying the food but just now I Google'd Canidae for a couple reasons.. to see if I could find it any cheaper online and to see if there were any complaints about it. I was a little taken back when the second result to show up - directly under Canidaes official website - was this: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/canidae.html 

There are a TON of posts to sort through but ultimately the majority(if not all) of them are complaints(made within the past couple months) about Canidae changing its formulation and causing MANY dogs to become seriously ill - vomiting, diarrhea, seizures, liver problems, etc. Now my puppy had a couple days recently where she had diarrhea but it has since passed and her stool seems to be healthy again. No vomiting or seizures thankfully but I am concerned about potential liver damage or other 'internal issues' that may not be completely evident. To me she looks a bit skinny - At a little more than 3 months old she weighed in at 27lbs at the Vet's office and according to him she was very healthy so at this point its not a concern for me. But as I mentioned I am concerned about other health risks caused by this dog food as it seems to be a widespread problem.

Basically I'm looking for some feedback - Should I switch food immediately, if so to what? Should I get her checked out to err on the side of caution? Lastly I wanted to post this so that other people who are feeding their dogs Canidae can become aware of the (potential) problems this food can/has caused.

BTW, I searched and scanned the forums and didn't see any thread similar to this but if its a double post my apologies.


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Couple things I want to address:

Regarding being recommended.... I don't know of where ANYONE has recommended this food since about June/July of 08 (some earlier). There might be 1 or 2 people still having good luck but more often than not, dogs were having issues with the formula changes. They did this before which is when I stopped feeding it. 

I've not heard of liver damage with the new formula. Just vomiting and the runs. Basically if you are concerned and don't trust a dog food, then find something else you do feel comfortable feeling. 

Alot of people are feeding Orijen puppy, some of us are feeding Taste of the Wild Pacific, etc. So there are options out there.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

They did change their formulas a few months ago, which caused problems with lots of dogs (mostly digestive related). There are several thread discussing this from a couple months ago when it happened. Wasn't that there was necessarily something wrong with the new formula, but rather that it was different enough from the old formula as to cause problems just from the switch. 

Especially since many people weren't aware of the switch, so didn't gradually change their dogs over (as would usually be done when switching from one food to another), so their dogs ended up being switched cold turkey from one bag to the next. Sudden changes in diet like that can cause digestive problems in lots of dogs. This caused many people who didn't know about the switch until after the fact (if at all), to blame the problems on the food, rather than on the switch in the food. And unfortunately, many people who's dogs had done well on Canidae for years (me included) ended up with problems even after an adjustment period to the new formula and their dogs didn't do well on the new formula, and had to change to a different food.

There is nothing wrong with the new Canidae formulas. It is still an excellent food. But they are different from the old formulas. And not all dogs do well on all foods. I wouldn't be worried about complaints on the internet with regards to Canidae. I'd just look at your dog. If she does well on it, feed it. If she doesn't, regardless of what is posted on the internet, find something she does well on.


----------



## tre_ (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks for the reply Angela. 

I guess digging up past threads on the subject of "best puppy food" was a bad idea as there were a number of (older) threads where a handful of people mentioned Canidae and more-or-less 'recommended' it as a good option. In a thread as recent as 2 months ago there was no mention of the 'problems' with the food so I assumed there was nothing to worry about.

I will be switching her food soon, thanks again for the feedback.

*edit: @ Chris Wild, thanks for the insightful post, very helpful!


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

It is totally up to you. You need to do what YOU feel is best. My dogs have been on the new formula ALS for several months now and have NEVER had ANY issues.

I bet if you looked long enough you could find complaints about most any food on the internet.

There have been about a zillion letters of the same kind about Nutro Natural Choice on the internet also, yet I now several folks that feed it and have for YEARS and have never had a problem.


----------



## tre_ (Nov 18, 2008)

Tracy, thanks for the reassurance. Maybe I overreacted to the complaints but seeing as how they were all recent and so serious it raised some concern for me. I just wouldn't want to feed anything to my girl that would put her health at risk but at the same time I shouldnt be so paranoid I guess...


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: tre_In a thread as recent as 2 months ago there was no mention of the 'problems' with the food so I assumed there was nothing to worry about.


Probably because those that are still feeding it aren't having any problems. The formula change was several months ago. Long before the post you mentioned above was started.


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: tre_Tracy, thanks for the reassurance. Maybe I overreacted to the complaints but seeing as how they were all recent and so serious it raised some concern for me. I just wouldn't want to feed anything to my girl that would put her health at risk but at the same time I shouldnt be so paranoid I guess...


I wouldn't call it paranoid. You are looking out for your girl and that is a GOOD thing!


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Also keep in mind, the people having problems with anything tend to be the most vocal. Whereas those who are problem free, tend to go about life as usual and are unlikely to post about their lack of problems. So it can create a skewed perception that problems are more widespread than they are.

We fed Canidae for years and were very happy with it. Then the formula switch and our dogs didn't do so well. No digestive problems, but their coats went downhill. So we ended up switching to another food.

I know a few others who had problems with the new food (people I know in real life, not just on the internet) who also switched. 

But then I also know probably 8-10 other people (again, in real life) who have had no problems since the formula switch, are still feeding Canidae and their dogs are doing great. Including my mother, several club members, several puppy customers, etc...

So in my little corner of the world, problems with the new formulas did exist, but more people did NOT have problems than did have problems.

At the end of the day, you have to look at your dog and judge for yourself. Every dog is an individual, so no single food works for all dogs. That means sometimes having to experiment with a couple different foods until you hit on the one that works best for your own dog.


----------



## Strana1 (Feb 9, 2008)

For what it's worth I have had my 2 dogs and all of my current fosters on the new formula and have had no issues, even during the switch. They are at good weights, shiny coats and look forward to feed time. One dog has no issue with any foods and my other has had runny poops with other foods, but Canidae agrees with him.


----------



## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

I'm another one who is feeding Canidae that did not encounter problems with the switchover....though I had a few bags of the "old formula" that I could do the switchover gradually. I had absolutely no problems with Phoenix's poo.(other than I'm seeing more output with the new formula)

Our biggest issue is his coat (not nearly as nice and shiny as before)now. I'm also finding he's scratching more since I've been feeding the new formula which now includes barley and millet in it (the old formula did not)


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I was feeding it without any issues until about a month ago. My pup's breeder is recommending Fromm now (price comparable to Canidae) so I switched to that.

Since I've switched, I've noticed my pup is not pooping as often and it looks much more normal. My 7 y/o female just finished the last of the canidae and I hadn't notice her coat looking bad until the girl at the petstore said it looked 'Kinda sh!tty' Oh well, atleast they're honest.


----------



## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I don't feed Canidae anymore because my breeder was having problems and stopped feeding her dogs.I am going to switch to Fromm Family food as long as my local feed store is able to get it.The breeder switched her dogs to that.If I have to I can get it from her but it is a 45 minute drive to see her.


----------



## 3dogcrew (Apr 23, 2006)

All 3 of our guys are on canidae , new formula.No problems.It actually happened by error.About 2 months ago I was low on their regular food ,(Exclusive) one evening.My daughter feeds her labs canidae so she brought some over and I mixed it with the Exclusive and all 3 inhaled it.We have had no problems.Coats are looking good, weight is doing well, feeding about 1/2 cup less than the Exclusive.Dock & Davit are getting 2c AM & PM and Matey is 1c AM and PM.


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

My friend that owns the store still has not had a single bag of the new Canidae come back.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.My friend that owns the store still has not had a single bag of the new Canidae come back.


Funny you mention that. The guy at nat pet said the same thing but he also said he had his own disasters feeding it to his personal dogs. Maybe people just don't bring stuff back if they aren't satisfied. Or they're like me, they have a dog who's doing fine on it so they finish the bag then buy something else.


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Believe me, the people that shop at my friend's store would bring it back, or at least let her know it wasn't working. 
She knows many of her customers and can remember what they're feeding.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I've got two dogs and both of whom were on the canidae old and new formula.

The first dog lasted a couple weeks on the new formula until her poop turned to this green mucus slop. She went to the vet and the vet said to give her white rice to harden the poop. I switched over to innova adult and after about a months on the new food, her poop is finally back to normal.

The second dog was on the old formula canidae for about 8 years now. He's now been on the new formula for a couple months and hes starting to get all this nasty black stuff in his ears. Needless to say he's now being immediately changed to orijen senior.

Now I'm sure the reason you read all these complaints about the new formula is because id think people would tend to post their bad experiences when trying something new then if nothing changes. I'm sure some dogs are doing fine on it and if it's working for you, i wouldnt fix what isnt broken, atleast not yet. I can just say from personal experience (well my dogs experience) that this new formuladoes not agree with either of them.


----------



## Cazman (Dec 11, 2008)

On a trip to my new Fromm dealer / Pet Store I found that they stocked all of the 6 and 5 * dog foods. When I noticed the Canidae I had asked the lady helping me about it without letting on that I knew anything about it other than i heard good things. She proceeded to tell me about the formula change and that just about every customer who has had their dog on it had some sort of complaint.

I hope no one takes this post the wrong way but I just wanted to pass on what I had been told in case it helps someone make a future decision one way or the other.

I too was going to change Rawley to Canidae until I found all of the good things I was reading were on older posts. And then I found all of the negative and decided to change to Fromm which has been a Heaven Sent so far.


----------



## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

My pet store clerk told me that if you feed it your dog will DIE because there is bacteria in it. All dog foods have bacteria in them...this is why I never even speak to the pet store people, thy get paid minimum wage for their services for a reason. 

That said I feed Wellness LBP


----------



## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

You can only try it and see if it works for your dogs. My group, fed it for years (ALS) no problems. Changed formula without saying a word then denied it (about 5 yrs ago). Vishnu within a wk had severe allergic reactions, hairloss, bloody paws, black ears, yeast infection. Went to raw. Came out with chicken and rice, decided to try it. Vishnu did ok, Oxana who has never reacted to anything within 2 wks had her one and only ear infection. Went to TOTW, never looked back. Then of course, this past summer canidae changed again. I'll personally never feed canidae again as they don't feel it's neccessary to give enough notice, and I've never seen a good change off their food when they change formulas. 

Duchess I'm having to switch her off of one formula of TOTW due to allergies that suddenly developed, but we're just taking her off of the fish and moving her to duck. 

If it works for your dog great, but I've had too many weird things happen that were NOT for the better, even though the formula changes were "improvements". No thanks.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: AxxelMy pet store clerk told me that if you feed it your dog will DIE because there is bacteria in it. All dog foods have bacteria in them...this is why I never even speak to the pet store people, thy get paid minimum wage for their services for a reason.
> 
> That said I feed Wellness LBP


Wait so you're saying there isn't some kind of college and grad school for pet store employees? They always seem and speak like such professionals. I always regarded them in the same light as doctors and lawyers.


----------



## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Lucy Dog
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: AxxelMy pet store clerk told me that if you feed it your dog will DIE because there is bacteria in it. All dog foods have bacteria in them...this is why I never even speak to the pet store people, thy get paid minimum wage for their services for a reason.
> ...



haha, you'd be surprised how many people think just because someone works somewhere it makes them an expert with everything they have. 

Ever see someone ask a wal mart employee unlisted tech specs on a TV or something...priceless.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Lucy Dog
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: AxxelMy pet store clerk told me that if you feed it your dog will DIE because there is bacteria in it. All dog foods have bacteria in them...this is why I never even speak to the pet store people, thy get paid minimum wage for their services for a reason.
> ...


This is why I don't shop at the brand name petstores like petsmart and petco. Independent shops tend to be family owned by dog people who you'll see the same 4 or 5 people working there for 10 years. Of the 2 places I like to shop at, I trust their opinions becuase they aren't afraid to say I dunno or this is my experience with my dog...


----------



## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

Pet Plus moved into our small town and ran the only other pet store we had, which was family owned out of business in under 2 years. 

They are now the only source of quality food for 70 miles.


----------



## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I feed my puppy Canidae and am now on my 2nd bag. She loves it. I find her coat is shinny and she looks very healthy. I'm not really ahppy witht he poops. Looks a little too soft. Before Canidae I was feed Nutro Large Breed Puppy and switched because I didn't like the poops and my pup didn't really like the food. The pops are a little better now on Canidae but now where the nice firm ones that I had with my other dog who used to eat Iams

I will switch food again (because of the poops) but not sure what to try next


----------



## tre_ (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

One question I have now is: What is the best way to phase in a new dog food? From what I gather its not a good idea to just abruptly change their food?


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

When I switched my puppy from Canidae to Fromm, I mixed them half and half for a week. My older female has an iron gut and I knew she wouldn't have a problem so I just switched her when the canidae ran out.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When the new formula came out, I knew nothing about the change until the lighter pebbles came spewing from the bag. I had a pregnant bitch and did not want to switch in the middle of her pregnancy, and I thought things would get better. 

The slimey yellowish poo came out of all of my dogs, some worse than others. 

Lamb and rice was so bad, I stopped using it. Chicken and rice, I must have had a bad bag because that was nasty too. But on the ALS, most of my dogs started doing better. 

Dubya's poos were the worst, but now most of the time they are solid. If I feed him less, I get solid poo. If I feed him more I get mushy poo. But the boy is thin, and I can feel his ribs and the bones on his butt. So I hate to feed him less, especially with the cold weather coming on. 

Whitney though is simply not pulling enough nutrician out of the food. She was 57 pounds today and even my vet said she needs to gain some weight. Tori was 64# and the vet said she looks great to him, but if I wanted to, I could put three pounds on her. 
Heidi (all of these are out of the same litter) looks great at 68 pounds. 

Whitney is lighter in frame and bone than the other two, and has been slight all along. But I think shee nees to be at least 62 pounds. The thing is I am feeding Heidi and Tori just over three cup a day. I am feeding Whitney four cups a day. We are going to test for parasites. Her thyroid came back good. She is energetic and otherwise healthy, just STARVING. 

I still have puppies from Babs' litter, so I do not want to change my whole lot. I think I do have to change Whitney to something else. I said half-jokingly to the vet that I will give her three cups of Canidae and a cup of old roy. 

The whole idea of the no carb diet is that if there are no carbs for the fat to stick to, it comes out and is not stored. Whitney is not storing fat. I need something that will give her a better ration of fat, protein, and carbs for her system I think. 

Changing to whole group though seems extreme at this point.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Sue, I'm having really good luck with FROMM. The price is comparable to canidea. 

The output is totally normal - Morgan's been with me for 7 years, I know what's normal for her. On *new* Canidea it was sort of florescent, now that she's on the new food for a week, it's all normal again.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have never seen FROMM, where do you get it? How is the price compared to Canidae? Is FROMM an acronym? 

Unemployed now and Canidae is about as cheap as I could find a good food, and I am on their breeder program. Still for one dog switching I could try this other stuff.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I buy Fromm at national pet, not sure if you have a franchise near you. We were doing the canidae frequent buyer program, I envelopes and 4 UPCs from 30lb bags - 1/3 of the way to a free sack. Send me a PM if you want them, I'll mail them to you.


----------

