# Much Needed Help with 1.5 year old German Shep



## Brewsky

Apologize for the long post in advance. Love my dog more than anything, but recently have been seeing increasing issues with my shepherd. I have read multiple forums and have tried to put some of the suggestions into practice. Like most people posting in here I am sure they believe there dog is a somewhat special case and would like some advice specifically tailored to their issues. A little background… I have about an 85 lb 1.5 year old male german shepherd, Oscar. This is the first dog I have owned, but was immediately drawn to the breed as they are very active, intelligent, and at the same time loving dogs. I don’t regret getting a dog for a minute, but there are definitely days he has pushed me to the boiling point. 
Getting into the issues. My first and major obstacle is Oscar around other dogs/ people. I am walking him and socializing him as much as possible, but he still comes off as very aggressive (though I know he wouldn’t hurt a fly… even if he got off the leash during one of these episodes he wouldn’t know what to do). His initial reaction upon seeing a person and more so other dog is always hair raising and loud barking. This is difficult because many people think he is a gorgeous dog and want to pet him but immediately get turned off by his behavior. Again this is his initial reaction, if we stick it out for a minute or two and let him sniff the person or dog he quickly becomes comfortable and friendly. We are also working on tugging on the leash, but I believe I have found a method that has been helping (every time there is tension I immediately stop moving until slack is back in the leash). I understand repetition is key with any dog training it is just a matter of finding the method to get desired reactions from the dog. With this in mind I have not found a successful way to stop this initial reaction. 
The other main issue I am running into is barking. Unfortunately for me Oscar has gotten to a point where when he barks and I say “Quiet” if he barks again he knows he is going to get a reaction out of me. Now it has gotten to the point that we will go back and forth with him almost “challenging” me when I say Quiet by barking back in my face (not sure if he thinks it is a game or is intentionally disobeying me). I know it is suggested to not use negative reactions, but in the past he has received spankings and been put into his crate (which I have learned should also not be used for punishment). I have recently begun trying an opposite approach where when he barks I say quiet once and if he repeat barks instead of a louder quiet or spank on the butt I just ignore him which usually results in him challenging with several more loud barks (to get a reaction) and running around a little and then quiets down when he sees it gets no response. What I am looking for is either how to adjust what I am currently doing or another suggestion to try? I feel the issue we ran into is that early on if he barked and I said quiet he would stop, and I would treat him gradually trying to increase the time I required him to become silent before getting the treat, however due to either timing or how I am treating he got the idea in his mind that barking was the action that got the treat and not the quieting down part. He is very intelligent and has the basic commands sit, down, stay, and heel down and I know he understands, but at times continues to challenge me and disobey. Again is this simply a matter repetition and working on trust between owner and dog or are there any other tips I can put into place? I have tried a clicker in the past with mixed results. Open to any and all advice! Thanks in advance.


Dan
Proud owner of 85 lb Male (Oscar)


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## Emoore

For the barking, I would try one of the citronella bark collars. The instant the dog barks it sprays citronella into the dog's face. The citronella is completely harmless but it smells _horrible_ to a dog, and works on the fact that they have such sensitive noses. A solution like this would take any element of a "game" out of the equation. 

For the issue with barking and hackling at people, is there any way possible you can get into a class or work with a trainer? Unfortunately in order to fix this you're going to have to put him into a lot of situations with strange people who are willing to do exactly what needs to be done to raise his threshold and make him comfortable. The best way to do this is in a class or trainer situation.


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## Twyla

Nothing in Life is Free

Look at That! A Counterintuitive Approach to Dealing with Reactive Dogs Dog Training for Dog Lovers Blog

BAT Ahimsa Dog Blog

Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT) | Official site for BAT: dog-friendly training for reactivity (aggression, fear, frustration) by Grisha Stewart, MA

With Woolf and tugging, I tried the standing still, didn't work out so well. I moved to walking in the complete opposite direction, making quick turns, even at times just walking in a square in the backyard. He got the idea that this was a crazy woman who didn't know where she was going so he had to keep his eye on me and he couldn't if he was in front lol.

The LAT and BAT links above will work about the same for him. He would learn that he can get closer if he doesn't react. You will need a helper to work with.

I agree with Emoore, get with a trainer. It will help with the frustration you are having, will be another set of eyes to observe the behavior he is exhibiting during the barking. And will give you hands on training on how to handle Oscar.


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## rooandtree

i had a barker at home...i taught him to be quiet by keeping a squirt bottle with me when he would bark at times he wasnt allowed i would say quiet with a quick squirt of water..he hated the water and it worked..the pup i have now loves water so a trainer told me to use somethng loud like a plastic bottle full of coins or something and shake it loudly while saying quiet.


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## billsharp

Not to overgeneralize, but I get the feeling from your entire post that your dog has successfully challenged you for the alpha position in the family. It appears to me that you aren't clear, consistent, or forceful enough with him to teach him what you want him to do. He is fearful of strangers and dogs, so he barks, and doesn't realize that he is not to do that. When he tugs on the leash you employ the most passive method possible for correcting that. When he barks you say "Quiet", a word not in his native language; and he has trained you to produce treats for him when he barks. Oscar is clearly in control. 

Suggestions:
Get a pinch or choke collar and learn how to use it. 
When he barks at strangers you correct him so he doesn't bark at strangers, because he doesn't want you to correct him. You should read the many posts here about how to train "reactive" dogs, and use those methods. Train him that when you say "Leave it" he will ignore the dog, person, etc. that has just captured his attention. Once he knows this limitation from you, praise and treat him when he calmly accepts attention from strangers, or acts calmly with dogs.

Tugging on the leash: same prescription. Choke chain used correctly so he knows that he must walk calmly by your side. Use "Heel" to train him to do this on your verbal command and not require so much correction.

Barking: I think the treat has to be used immediately after he stops barking to reinforce that he has correctly interpreted the word "Quiet": Bark-"Quiet!" (with correction at first)-he looks at you-you treat him. Repeat as needed, phase out the corrections as he gets what "Quiet" means. Let him know your disapproval for the barking--and then reward when he does what you want.

Many here will advocate positive only training, and I'm certainly no expert, but I believe that strong-willed GSDs need someone to set limits, and they respect it and fall into line once they know the pecking order. Otherwise, love, pet, scratch and bond with him at every opportunity so he sees you not only as boss but also as best friend.


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## billsharp

Oh, and no spankings, ever. They're worthless and harmful.


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## Mary Beth

For the barking, give him something else to do so. When he barks, well, first see what he is barking at - someone coming. Okay -you looked. Then say quiet, like you have been doing. When he keeps it up -you can try putting your hand on the top of his nose- below his eyes -mild pressure. So he still barks (mine did) - have him sit - treat by nose - then go down - put treat in you hand - lower your hand to the ground - be sure to stand in front of him - so he can focus on you - the second he stops barking - then give him the treat - but don't let him get up right away - have him hold the downstay -to the count of ten and first - you can lengthen the time with practice - when he stays quiet - then reward and release. When you are out walking and he barks - do the same thing. You may want to use a front ring harness (the gentle leader didn't fit my dog well though it may yours, I use the walk in sync) that way when you stop as you have been doing - the action of the harness by putting pressure on the dog's chest will help him to stop and turn to you. You can then turn him and go in the other direction or curve around or have him sit. If you aren't doing it already, be sure to play tug with him - only after a struggle - let him win - then reward and praise him for being a good hunter. Tug when he ends up winning helps to satisfy his prey drive and build up his confidence. A confident dog doesn't bark at everything in sight.


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## Brewsky

*Feedback*

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the quick feedback. A couple things to mention.He is currently on a choke\pinch collar and has been for close to half a year. It does not seem to have the same reaction as when initially used and he has come to expect the pinch. He is very good with Heel indoors and we are continuing to work on it outdoors but he breaks concentration too easily. Regarding the barking I seem to agree with the Alpha theory as it seems he is trying to challenge me. When he barks I show disapproval after I say Quiet and he repeat Barks. If I get louder saying quiet he barks louder and runs around expecting I will chase him around to get him to be quiet. Recently I have begun making him heel immediately after he repeat barks which worked initially as he settles when in the heel position and we aren't moving, but again after a couple times would disregard heel command and challenge with another bark. Also within the last couple days I tried the squirt bottle suggestion, which again worked initially but after he realized what it was threw him into a running and barking fit that was difficult to calm down. I have tried staying firm and consistent with commands and make sure to show him affection and he definitely enjoys being by my side and will follow me around. I am at the point now where I need to put him in his crate when he does not respond to the quiet command and starts barking multiple times in a row until I can contain him. More feedback would be appreciated. I am considering trying the citronella collar soon as it would not be an increased noise and may snap him out of his barking fits.


Dan


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## msvette2u

Barking is really the least of your concerns. You need to change how you interact with the dog.

Please click the link and begin to implement these "way of life" suggestions that will enforce your leadership in the house.

Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong


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## jakes mom

Hi Dan

Sounds like you've got a dog who's unsure of himself, and of you as his leader. 

I would definately implement the 'Mind Games' in the the link that msvette2u has posted, that will firmly establish you're leadership. 

Secondly, as Oscar is unsure around other dogs and people, keep your distance from them. If he pulls, barks or reacts you're too close. 

You need to work on letting him know you're in charge and won't put him into situations he's not comfortable with. You will handle problems for him, until he's more confident in himself and you. 

Keep some really tasty treats with you and everytime you see a dog or person give him a treat, so he starts to associate the presence of dogs and people with good things. Over time you'll notice that when Oscar sees a dog or person he'll look to you for a treat. A park where dogs have to be on leash is a good place to work, because you can control the distance. 

Perhaps you can sit on a bench somewhere at a safe distance and just give him treats everytime a dog or person comes into view. Gently praise Oscar when he doesn't bark or react. That way instead of pulling him or shouting at him, you're letting him know how you expect him to behave - rather than getting annoyed with behaviour you don't want. 

I wouldn't use the choke chain or prong collar, as corrections can make matters worse. Either use a front fastening harness as suggested by Mary Beth or/and a good head collar. I used the Dogmatic halter.

When you can get Oscar to walk without reacting to other dogs/people at a distance you can try moving closer. Do not rush it, you need to go at Oscar's pace. He needs to be able to 'sit' or 'down' or just play with you while he ignores other dogs. When he does you know it's ok to go a bit closer. Work on teaching him a strong 'leave it' or 'watch me', both of these are very useful when around other dogs.

If you need new people to meet him, ask them not to look at him or touch him - let him sniff them in his own time. 

For the pulling on the leash, you're doing ok with standing still but you need to do it before he hits the end of the leash, not after there's tension. The *second *his shoulder passes your leg - stop - stand rigid - he'll hit the end of the leash, wait until the leash goes slack - back up so Oscar has to come to you - praise him and then move on. He'll very quickly learn, if you're consistant, that the only way he's allowed to move on is if he's by your side. 

If he only pulls when other dogs are about move him away - give him more distance. 

As for the barking, it sounds like you have taught him that 'quiet' means bark, and the when you shout 'quiet' he barks louder and gets more excited thinking it's a game. 

Try this. When Oscar barks, completely ignore him, turn your back on him or even leave the room. Eventually if he gets no response from you, he'll stop - wait 3 seconds - pet him as you say gently 'Shhhh Shhhh good boy'. Be consistant you'll soon get it. Don't use the 'quiet' command again, as it will confuse him. Find a new word or just use shhhh, but only use it when he's actually barking once you're as sure as you can be that he understands what 'shhhh' actually means. 

Hope that of some help. 
________
Sue


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## Mary Beth

Try to keep in mind that your dog is going through his adolescence. A big dog take longer to reach that challenging stage. And challenge he will. Whenever he gets you upset , he thinks "boy, I won" - when you raise your voice and get mad - sure he gets more excited, because he is winning. He knows he can outbark you -his voice is bigger. Oh my, I just remembered when my dog was in his teens, one time when his barking was driving me nuts, I actually barked back. He was so astonished, he quieted. But it felt so good, so I let out a little woof - he woofed back. And so on - a "nice duet" the cat thought we were nuts. Well - please do what Sue said, turn your back. If you have to go in another room and quietly shut the door. Take deep breathes and count to ten. When he is quiet, you quietly open the door - ask him to sit and reward him. Also, try quiet times with him -put him on his leash and insist he hold his down/stay while your read or are on the computer. Start with 5 minutes - then reward and release him. He'll probably resist at first - but keep putting him in the down/stay. Gradually increase the time, you can work up to a 1/2 hour to 45 minutes. It is a calming exercise for him and you, and you'll notice he'll start to take a nap during his down/stay. For fun & games, I hope you are doing tug - that's a game he should win after a struggle of course.


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## robk

I know this will not be a popular suggestion and people will argue against this approach but I would suggest that your corrections are not hard enough. As you mentioned proudly several times, he is 85 lbs. He is playing you because you have probably been timid with your corrections. Make sure that prong collar is in the correct position which is as high up around the throat as possible and fairly tight. When he shows the first sign of aggression I would hit that collar with a lot of force, pulling the dog forward so the prongs pinch the nerves that are right be hind his ears. Put your weight into it and remind him that you are in charge and aggression will not be tolerated. After your correction, make him look at you with direct eye contact and gently praise him for being quite and behaving. You have to show him what good behavior is and that bad behavior will not be put up with.

Also, on a side note, there is nothing wrong with telling people not to pet your dog and to keep their dogs away from your dog because you are in the process of training him. You have a German Shepherd. People will understand.

Ok, let the flaming begin


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## Franksmom

That's about the age that Frank was when he went into a let's challenge mom, know it all attitude. For a bit I thought I'd gotten a breed that maybe wasn't for me. 
Frank is 29 inches and 86 pounds so a big GSD too. I'm 5ft 5 
I did LAT games, they did help with attention and barking at other dogs, but not enough with his attitude. 
I know you say you've already got him on a pinch collar, Frank was too, but I tightened it up, right up behind his ears, and I put more force behind the corrections I was giving him, I know some will blast me for this but the first couple corrections actually lifted him off his front fit, I did't hang him but I got his attention in a big way, he was also getting in my face not barking but being pushy, I would not allow that, I cracked down on all the rules, made his training very consistant, I started watching little things that I was doing that I didn't realize, when we went for just a relaxed walk in our field I realized he was leading the walk, and not me, I changed that. I'm not a big "Alpha dog/ Alpha roll" believer but I do believe they need to know who's in charge and that the rules are rules that dont' change no matter what. 
Frank's attitude has changed, and he's much easier to live with and train.

One more thing becareful about correcting him hard when he reacts towards other dogs, I used LAT for that, a hard correction when he's reacting towards a dog can make him even worse, because he associates the correction and seeing a dog.


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## msvette2u

> I'm not a big "Alpha dog/ Alpha roll" believer but I do believe they need to know who's in charge and that the rules are rules that dont' change no matter what.


Exactly what "Mind Games" are for


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## BowWowMeow

I have a hunch that this is not a dog who is challenging or fearful but is using barking as an excited form of communication. From your description, it sounds like he might be saying, "Hey look at me!" and "Let the games begin!" But all of the suggestions and comments in this thread are guessing based on your interpretation of the situation. 

Before implementing suggestions like yanking the crap out of him when he barks, I would meet with a qualified trainer and see how s/he assesses what is going on. 

Regardless of the reason he is barking, you clearly need to work on your leadership skills. A good leader is clear, confident and fair. Establishing that sort of relationship with your dog goes a long way, no matter the reason for a particular behavior.


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## billsharp

Brewsky, some dogs are too driven to respond to the simple pinch collar. These require a "prong" collar. Yes it looks medieval, but is actually a useful tool if needed by the dog and if used correctly. Please read the threads here and reputable sites on how to use it. It will certainly help you to get his full attention when needed.

Most of the posts here seem to have picked up the idea that there may be a fundamental relationship tweaking that is needed here, and it may be as simple as the fact that you may be timid, unsure and hesitant in your interactions with your dog. His reactions certainly sound like the typical GSD "I sense that you are weak so I'm gonna bark at you" reaction.

I think the perspective of most here is that (1) if your dog has bonded with you, he wants to please you, and (2) if you let him know you are displeased with an action, he will stop that action, and (3) if you let him know you are pleased with an action, he will do it again. However, it appears that in your case (1) you have bonded, but (2) you don't effectively communicate "what you just did is a no-no", and (3) you don't effectively communicate "Good boy--I like what you just did!" 

The good news is that if you relax, get unemotional, stiffen your spine, and be direct, commanding, simple and unambiguous with your dog he should respond. You will learn this best in a class with a qualified trainer who can see you in action with your dog and will probably instantly identify the problem(s) and show you how to easily correct them.

Don't give up, you're almost there!!! Just get some help and advice!


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## Jax08

IME, a prong and a choke collar ramped Jax up even worse. What did work was stopping the reaction either by walking her away and putting a "threshhold" distance between her and the object or by making her sit and standing in front of her to block her view.

We then did LAT which we had very good success with. She was starting to just look and not react or her reaction was to pull past the dog rather than lunge and bark (still a fear reaction and still have to work on that). The next step was BAT which we haven't gotten to yet.


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## jakes mom

Without seeing your dog ourselves, none of us can say for sure why your dog is reacting, and that's why it's best to get a qualified behaviourist to access him. 

IMO If you treat your dog as though he is fearful and desensitize him to dogs and people at his pace, you will do no harm. Using severe corrections you may do more harm than good. 

Let's assume you're dog is wary of other dogs and people and would rather avoid them, but the leash stops him doing that, so he barks in order to drive them away - you correct him severely for barking when he sees another dog or person. Do you think your dog will get to like dogs and people - I don't - he'll be even more unsure because when he sees them you yank him hard and it hurts. 

Don't get me wrong he may well stop barking, because he's too scared to bark - but it doesn't mean he thinks people and dogs are ok, and his barking and pulling may turn to aggression.

You do not have to deal out harsh punishment to be a leader your dog loves, respects and obeys. You do need to be fair and consistant, and show them the sort of behaviour you expect. 

Imo you have nothing to lose by keeping your distance for a few weeks - if you see no improvement at all you can then reassess.
__________
Sue


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## Mary Beth

BowWowMeow said:


> I have a hunch that this is not a dog who is challenging or fearful but is using barking as an excited form of communication. From your description, it sounds like he might be saying, "Hey look at me!" and "Let the games begin!" But all of the suggestions and comments in this thread are guessing based on your interpretation of the situation.


 That is a good point and makes sense. It is easy for us humans to forget that barking is a dog's way of communicating. Looking it from that point of view, yes the dog is excited - the human gets upset at the barking - the dog picks up on the negative emotions and he barks more. If the human does more harsh corrections that would have an adverse effect - the dog acts up more. Better to back off -stay calm and work on turning the dog, having him focus on doing something. Even distracting with a ball or toy. I have read in other threads, that letting the dog carry a ball or toy helps.


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## Ucdcrush

I would be very careful when thinking about amping up corrections. It can easily stress the owner and dog out and make things much worse as the dog will associate people/dogs with impending pain and stress. Avoid at all costs.

You have received good advice about leadership here.

One thing I want to mention is that a dog reacts to stimuli very differently depending on the dog's mental state when he encounters those things. A very excited hyper dog tends to jump up on people, run around like a maniac, barks etc. A calm dog approaches, sniffs, etc. This is to say, pay very close attention to your dog's energy level before you walk out the door. In fact, before you put his leash or collar on for that matter. If you proceed towards the reward (stepping through the door for the walk) with the dog in an amped up state, you are reinforcing that state and setting the dog and yourself up for frustration when his energy is hard or impossible to control on the walk.

Practice that NILIF stuff for now, and watch his energy as you leash him up. Wait for him to be calmer before rewarding him with his collar, the leash, the steps to the door, etc.

As far as barking at you, my dog went through that stage too at about the same age. Part of it is youthful exuberance and probably not getting enough exercise. Tell him to stop/quiet, if he does not, walk him down and put him on his side. Bring him back with you, tell him to lay down and stay. That's what I did anyway, do not let the dog try to initiate a game of chase with you.


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## Mary Beth

Franksmom said:


> That's about the age that Frank was when he went into a let's challenge mom, know it all attitude. For a bit I thought I'd gotten a breed that maybe wasn't for me.
> Frank is 29 inches and 86 pounds so a big GSD too. I'm 5ft 5
> I did LAT games, they did help with attention and barking at other dogs, but not enough with his attitude.
> I know you say you've already got him on a pinch collar, Frank was too, but I tightened it up, right up behind his ears, and I put more force behind the corrections I was giving him, I know some will blast me for this but the first couple corrections actually lifted him off his front fit, I did't hang him but I got his attention in a big way, he was also getting in my face not barking but being pushy, I would not allow that, I cracked down on all the rules, made his training very consistant, I started watching little things that I was doing that I didn't realize, when we went for just a relaxed walk in our field I realized he was leading the walk, and not me, I changed that. I'm not a big "Alpha dog/ Alpha roll" believer but I do believe they need to know who's in charge and that the rules are rules that dont' change no matter what.
> Frank's attitude has changed, and he's much easier to live with and train.
> 
> One more thing becareful about correcting him hard when he reacts towards other dogs, I used LAT for that, a hard correction when he's reacting towards a dog can make him even worse, because he associates the correction and seeing a dog.


Okay - I'm 5 ft. 4 " and 100 lbs., my GSD is 135 lbs. (his is 30 " tall and considered fit by his vet) . I went through the same thing you did with your GSD. I had to enforce the rules since he insisted that obedience was only when he had nothing better to do. I did revamp his training so he has learned that he can only approach people with my permission and their's, one bark to alert me the mailman is coming and that is it, no barking when the neighbor's dog is in their yard, when another dog is being walked that is not an invitation for my dog to chase after him. His rewards are treats (not always), praise (always),and his favorite fetch/tug game. The big breakthroughs were discovering the 2 pressure points (one one each side of the dog's tail by the base) - when lightly pressed wth my fingers enforces the sit command , using my voice like drill sargent for commands and more enthusiastic for the praise, and the Walk In Sync method of dog walking - when I stop the harness puts pressure on his chest he turn toward me - that's when I reward, it works the same if he tries to lunge, also when he would take over the walk, the trianing videos showed me to body nudge him, or to start going erractically - the trainer Alicia Evans calls it the "drunk walk". I achieved the same thing you did without resorting to the prong collar. Finally, I agree 100% with your last paragraph and I hope the OP takes careful note of that.


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## DTS

i went through the same things with my girl. my trainer suggested some methods to try. some might not see as ok, but they did work for me. 
first, i used the squirt bottle, it fit in the palm of my hand and when she would bark i would squirt her directly in the mouth. 
first, i tried lemon juice. when that didn't work i used apple cider vinigar. i always brushed her teeth after as well. 
as i gave her a tiny squirt i gave the command no bark. 
when she quit barking, she got a cookie
if she didn't she either got a squirt or a small collar correction.
i started taking her everywhere. parking lots, pet stores, the park
first, i would walk the perimeter doing some obedience to keep her focus on me treating her as i went.
when she got comfortable we moved closer to people, did more OB, treating or giving her a small spray and a "no bark"
if it became too overwhelming, we retreated back to a more dense populated place and started over again, always ending on a good note
i let her watch people and now that's what she does, if she gets too focused, i will break it with a "watch me command"
there were bad days, where i wanted to give up.
it took about a year and a half but i can proudly say she no longer barks at people or dogs. we can pass people and dogs in isles of stores, crowds in camp grounds and in tight spaces (for the most part, she gets excited sometimes, especially with other dogs)
i no longer need the spray
i don't worry about passing someone or walking by someone and her barking with hackles raised
we still have things to work on, she can't stand people staring at her in the eyes and she will bark and pull away when some people try and pet her, but shes 100X better than where we started. 
all i can say is that with hard work and time it can get better


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