# What is the best choice of raw meats for dogs with allergies?



## stealle (Feb 2, 2013)

I currently feed mostly kibble. I have started mixing in some green tripe. I have been reading lots about the raw diet. I would like to introduce some more variety of raw meat sources. However, I would like to stay away from meats that might cause problems with allergies. I went through months and months of trial and error to find out what meats my dog is allergic to. Of course this was through multiple changes in kibble. My dog always had skin/allergy problems no matter what I fed her. She is currently on atopica which is an immuno-suppresant that has basically cured the problem, However, the drug is expensive and I would rather not deal with all the other problems that immunosupression may cause. So I'd like to wean her off and give raw a try. I'd like some advice on what meats to stay away from that might cause problems with allergies. She is old. I don't want to go through months of trial and error. I'm going to give this another honest shot with raw. If she has a relapse, she goes back on atopica so she can live her remaining time in comfort. I am hoping someone can just tell me what meats might be best for her and what meats might be worse for her.

I'm not sure what to get. Get this! I read up about meat allergies. This is just one example: Dog Food Allergies | Frequently Asked Questions It says the most common food allergies include: Beef, Chicken, Lamb, and Fish! I have read from other sources that include Pork and Rabbit to this list of common allergies. WHAT! What else is there??? That covers almost every type of meat available! So confusing 

That's why so far all I have given raw is green tripe. While is it technically beef (or lamb), I haven't read anything but positive about green tripe. Often called the "perfect dog food". 

I have a good source of raw meats. I can get rabbit, muskrat, lamb, beef, chicken, pork, turkey, duck, goose, goat and of course bone and organs from mypetcarnivore.com . They have a delivery route that comes to my area once a month.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Rabbit, Duck, Goat, Turkey, Fish, Bison, Elk/Deer, Buffalo are your best bets.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Was she allergy tested? Were you able to pinpoint any meats that she may be allergic too? A very small portion of allergies is food related.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

When most people talk about determining allergies, they say "Well, I tried a chicken based kibble but she itched so I changed to a fish based kibble and it stopped. That means she was allergic to chicken!"

But what about all the OTHER ingredients in that first kibble? Why do people always go right for the protein??

It's pretty rare for a dog to be allergic to a protein. It can happen, but it's rare. And sometimes it's caused by vaccines. My friend had a Rottweiler that was fine with beef products until he received a booster for Rabies. After that he couldn't tolerate beef at all. Something in that vaccine caused him problems.

So - to TRULY find out what your dog is allergic to you have to start with a SINGLE INGREDIENT DIET. Feed ONLY that item to your dog for at least 3-4 weeks and see what happens. Do they get better? Do they get worse?

If they get better you can write that item down on the CAN FEED list and then add a second item to their diet.

If they get worse you write that item down on the CANNOT FEED list and pick a different item to try next.

I always suggest people start with chicken. It's the easiest to find, cheaper than most other proteins and easy to get Raw Meaty Bones, Muscle Meat and Organ Meat in just that protein.

When I take in a foster that needs to be switched to raw because of allergies or other health issues I switch them right away to chicken. Depending on the size of the dog they get chicken necks, backs or legs for RMBs, chicken breasts for MM and chicken livers for OM. I keep them on that menu for at least 3 weeks - watching for any changes in their physical condition. I start at about 2% of their current body weight and adjust as necessary.


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## stealle (Feb 2, 2013)

Wild Wolf said:


> Rabbit, Duck, Goat, Turkey, Fish, Bison, Elk/Deer, Buffalo are your best bets.


Thanks for that. Sounds like you named most everything except chicken, beef, and lamb. Would you also stay away from beef tripe and lamb tripe or just the meat?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Well, you're the one that went through months and months of trial and error! What kind of protein do you think she's allergic to? Whiel people can name the most common ones, there is really no way to be sure. Best bet in an allergy test.

I will say that my dog Elsa did not ever do good on "birds" including when we tried to put her on a bland diet. However, with RAW we can feed a significant amount of turkey and also incorporate in some chicken and she does amazing on it. Something about RAW just seems to be processed differently in the body in regards to allergies.


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## San (Mar 22, 2012)

My GSD used to be on Atopica (started in summer 2008, her last pill was in October 2010). 

I know this is not what you are asking, but....

I can't be 100% certain, but if I recall correctly, when I took my GSD to the dermatologist for her allergy problems, the dermatologist told me that because her symptoms were responsive to Atopica and steroids, her allergy was not food-related. 

We ended up doing intradermal skin testing on her and started her on allergy shots. Her symptoms became fully controlled quickly and I was able to taper her off of Atopica. 

What kind of symptoms does your dog have?


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## stealle (Feb 2, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> Was she allergy tested? Were you able to pinpoint any meats that she may be allergic too? A very small portion of allergies is food related.


No, as I mentioned. I have only changed kibble formulas in the past. I've tried chicken based, lamb based, fish based. I've always fed something grain-free for the past 9 years. And, she has done the best on fish based food. I've tried IAMS and Eukenueba in the early years. The Science Diet Rx formula, then Canidae, then Innova, and then Wellness Core. She seemed to do the best on Wellness Core (grain-free) fish formula. She was on that for years, but still has to go on a round of antibiotics 2 or 3 times a year. That's the best she did before we went to the University of Illinois where they suggested that a dog this age would probably not benefit from allergy shots. They said she probably would do well on Atopica. So we did not spend the $700?-$900? on allergy testing and went with Atopica. It works great for her skin problems.




Lauri & The Gang said:


> When most people talk about determining allergies, they say "Well, I tried a chicken based kibble but she itched so I changed to a fish based kibble and it stopped. That means she was allergic to chicken!"
> 
> But what about all the OTHER ingredients in that first kibble? Why do people always go right for the protein??
> 
> It's pretty rare for a dog to be allergic to a protein. It can happen, but it's rare. And sometimes it's caused by vaccines. My friend had a Rottweiler that was fine with beef products until he received a booster for Rabies. After that he couldn't tolerate beef at all. Something in that vaccine caused him problems.


Well, I'm sure no dog is allergic to protein. All dogs and humans have protein to survive. However, I guess they can be allergic to certain protein sources. 

As I mentioned earlier, my dog is getting up in years. She's 10 1/2. She could die next month or she could live another 5 years. Probably a couple more years. It would take months, even years to try to rule out meat allergies. First, I would feed from one meat source. When she has an allergic reaction, I'd switch to another meat source and I would most likely have to give steroids and an antibiotic for a couple weeks until it clears up. I'd have to try it for at least a couple months to make sure the first offending meat source was completely out of her system before I could determine if the second meat source is a problem. 

I'm guess I could do all of this, but what I am saying is... I'd like to just give her a meat source that is the least likely to cause an allergic reaction the first time. For example, if I give her rabbit and she does well, I'll just go ahead and give her rabbit for quite some number of months before I would be brave enough to try something else. I can get raw whole rabbit. Perhaps that will be the one to try.

My puppy on the other hand, I will be giving him a large variety of meats


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## stealle (Feb 2, 2013)

GSDElsa said:


> Well, you're the one that went through months and months of trial and error! What kind of protein do you think she's allergic to? Whiel people can name the most common ones, there is really no way to be sure. Best bet in an allergy test.


Answered in my last post. I think we were typing at the same time.



GSDElsa said:


> I will say that my dog Elsa did not ever do good on "birds" including when we tried to put her on a bland diet. However, with RAW we can feed a significant amount of turkey and also incorporate in some chicken and she does amazing on it. Something about RAW just seems to be processed differently in the body in regards to allergies.


Well, this is my suspicion as well. I can't help to think that meat allergies are probably more like "processed meat allergies" not raw meat allergies. But, that's just my suspicion. If someone has any knowledge or research on this, I'd love to hear it.




San said:


> My GSD used to be on Atopica (started in summer 2008, her last pill was in October 2010).
> 
> I know this is not what you are asking, but....
> 
> ...


My dogs symptoms are a bad rash on the belly, face, and paws/around the pads. Sometimes her skin on her belly would be black. Other times her belly skin would be red/inflamed with sticky weeping sores. Around her pads, they would be red/inflamed and she would lick them constantly. She would get red weeping sores in the lip folds on her mouth. Also, occasionally ear infection. Red swollen... almost swollen shut ear canals. Sometimes eye gunk, but not much of that.

None of this since on atopica. Her belly is now covered with hair again. Her belly skin is a nice pink color and dry. Pads and ears look great. 

Since you did allergy testing and your dog got shots. Just curious. What was she allergic to?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What time of year does she break out? Is it always during a specific time of year? Does it end with a hard frost? Try feeding 1 tsp of local, unpasteurized, honey with yogurt and add in probiotics.

And read this article
Probiotics show allergy, immune system benefits: Nestlé study


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## San (Mar 22, 2012)

Stealle, my GSD used to have break-outs on her belly/groin and paws. She used to lick her paws until they became raw. Her belly would also become inflamed and very pigmented. 

When we first got our GSD, she had a chronic ear infection, took our primary care vet 6 months to clear it (we had blood-work done, culture done, the infection kept coming back). 

Our dermatologist vet test her on 36 allergens, she was allergic to 28 of them. They included different types of grasses/plants. She also had flea sensitivity and is allergic to dust mites. 

Intradermal testing does not test for food allergies. BTW, my dog has been symptom-free since October 2009. We took her off of allergy shots a few months ago and she has been doing well. 

You may want to consider consulting a derm vet, wish I had known about derm vets a lot sooner, would've saved me a lot of money, time, and frustration, my poor GSD probably would've found relief a lot sooner as well.


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## stealle (Feb 2, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> What time of year does she break out? Is it always during a specific time of year? Does it end with a hard frost? Try feeding 1 tsp of local, unpasteurized, honey with yogurt and add in probiotics.
> 
> And read this article
> Probiotics show allergy, immune system benefits: Nestlé study


Time of year does not matter. I live in central Illinois. We have plenty of freezing, even sub zero weather. We also get blazing heat in the summer. 90 degree weather is quite common. She doesn't seem to do any better in the winter than in the summer.

I discovered this forum because I was researching nutrition. Here, I stumbled across Carmen's (carmspack) products. For the past two months I have been feeding her Sunday Sundae (probiotics), Feed-sentials (lots of good stuff), Sh-emp oil (fish, hemp, coconut oil), and Power of 3EA's (various oil sources of vitamin E). I believe they are great products. However, I am currently slowly weaning my dog off the atopica to avoid any rebound effect. I will be another month before she is completely off the atopica. I am also giving her green tripe which is basically a food source of enzymes, digestive juices, and probiotics as well. I am using this last month of atopica to make dietary changes. So it'll be a month before she is completely off the atopica and before I can really know for sure if what I am doing will help. She is currently on 33% less than her optimal dosing and doing quite well.


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## stealle (Feb 2, 2013)

San said:


> Stealle, my GSD used to have break-outs on her belly/groin and paws. She used to lick her paws until they became raw. Her belly would also become inflamed and very pigmented.
> 
> When we first got our GSD, she had a chronic ear infection, took our primary care vet 6 months to clear it (we had blood-work done, culture done, the infection kept coming back).
> 
> ...


Hmmm, well, that is encouraging. However, the vet at the U of I said that because of my dogs age she would probably not respond well to allergy shots. She said the younger the dog the more likely allergy shots will work. I forget the cost, but it was something like $700-$900 for testing. Of course the actual shots would be another expense. I wish I would have gone that route 8 years ago! :headbang: But now, I have a hard time spending that kind of money on a dog that will probably not benefit from the treatment.

I will certainly not hesitate to do testing on my younger dog if he starts having these problems. Uggh, I sure hope he never has this problem!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes. I'm familiar with Carmen's products and green tripe, as well as RAW feeding and the weather in the midwest. Personally, I think you are changing to many things at once and you'll never be sure what is helping. I used Carmen's products and it coincided with the first frost so I had no idea what actually helped until this year when she was on the supplements and had major issues. Turns out none of the supplements helped but giving raw honey solved the allergies completely. Extra oils in the winter solve the dandruff. Before I switched foods again, I would see if the supplements from Carmen are solving the issue by getting her completely off the Atopica as is your goal. Then make more changes as you see fit.

Good Luck. Allergies are hard to pinpoint without an official allergy test.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

stealle said:


> But now, I have a hard time spending that kind of money on a dog that will probably not benefit from the treatment.


I thought that over 3 years ago about our Boxer. Why spend the money when she probably won't be here in 6 months...she's now 13 and the second oldest Boxer the vet practice has ever seen. If you know what she is allergic to then you can minimize the allergens in her environment. Dust mites - clean more often. Grasses/pollens - small amount of honey per day.


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## stealle (Feb 2, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> I thought that over 3 years ago about our Boxer. Why spend the money when she probably won't be here in 6 months...she's now 13 and the second oldest Boxer the vet practice has ever seen. If you know what she is allergic to then you can minimize the allergens in her environment. Dust mites - clean more often. Grasses/pollens - small amount of honey per day.


Thanks Jax. I haven't thought much about honey for my dog. I frequently consume raw, organic, unpasteurized honey. Perhaps I'll give it a try. I love this product for myself: YS Eco Bee Farms Raw Honey -- 2 lbs - Vitacost . I have several jars of this stuff in my pantry. Do you think I should try this?

Do you think the product must be local honey? I have heard that if you want something to protect against local pollens and such, that you should use a honey that is locally sourced. There is no such thing as organic honey in my area since we are surrounded by farmers that use insane amounts of pesticides and herbicides. But, I'm sure I could find local non-organic honey if you think that would be better. However, it's also hard to find raw, * unpasteurized* honey locally. I'm sure pasteurization kills lots of the good stuff. But, I'm sure I could find some raw locally if you think that would be better.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

stealle said:


> I have only changed kibble formulas in the past. I've tried chicken based, lamb based, fish based. I've always fed something grain-free for the past 9 years.


But you have never fed anything CARB free.

This is Sadie, a dog I adopted. She was dumped at a shelter in Indiana and then rescued to a group in Chicago. I adopted her, wanting to give her the best for the time she had left - whether it was weeks, months or years. The vets estimated her age at over 14 but they couldn't be sure.

Sadie - the first pictures I saw of her:


















Her first night home with us:










I switched her to raw and kept her on chicken for the first few weeks. It is the softest bone and easiest for her to chew (she had many missing/broken teeth).

These are the changes we saw in just 4 weeks:




























And this was Sadie just 4 months after we got her:










If it really is food allergies it won't take long to see the changes.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

stealle said:


> Thanks Jax. I haven't thought much about honey for my dog. I frequently consume raw, organic, unpasteurized honey. Perhaps I'll give it a try. I love this product for myself: YS Eco Bee Farms Raw Honey -- 2 lbs - Vitacost . I have several jars of this stuff in my pantry. Do you think I should try this?
> 
> Do you think the product must be local honey? I have heard that if you want something to protect against local pollens and such, that you should use a honey that is locally sourced. There is no such thing as organic honey in my area since we are surrounded by farmers that use insane amounts of pesticides and herbicides. But, I'm sure I could find local non-organic honey if you think that would be better. However, it's also hard to find raw, * unpasteurized* honey locally. I'm sure pasteurization kills lots of the good stuff. But, I'm sure I could find some raw locally if you think that would be better.


If you are using it for allergies, then it should be from a 50 mile radius to have local pollens.

Lauri has a point...CARB free may be your answer. Look at Candida yeast overgrowth and the symptoms. 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/203826-candida-yeast-overgrowth.html


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## stealle (Feb 2, 2013)

Thanks, Jax and Laurie, for your helpful responses.

No I have not tried carb free. That is why I am asking about the raw diet and what meat sources to use. I am currently transitioning to Orijen 6-fish. It is one of the lowest carb kibbles on the market. I'm also feeding a little raw on the week-ends. As I mentioned to you in the introductions thread, Laurie, I am having trouble convincing my wife that a raw diet in a good idea. She thinks its gross and I'm going overboard. "Why does everyone elses dog do fine on dry dog food?" Well, we know that many other dogs don't do fine on dry dog food diets, but that's what I'm up against. I feel like I've got my hands partially tied here. I don't want to bully the idea. I am trying to educate and persuade her. Meanwhile, I'm feeding lower carb kibble, raw when I can, I'm educating myself about raw so I can provide a well balanced raw diet when my wife is convinced.


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## stealle (Feb 2, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/203826-candida-yeast-overgrowth.html


I read and bookmarked that. Ill try to get my wife to read it. Although, it probably won't help the raw battle any. It specifies staying away from grains which we already do. 

As mentioned in that article, I just started using apple cider vinegar in my rinses the last couple baths I've given. Hopefully that will help.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Not just grains...carbs...in order to kill a candida overgrowth, you have to remove sugars from the diet...i.e. carbs...rice, potatoes, beets, etc


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## stealle (Feb 2, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> Not just grains...carbs...in order to kill a candida overgrowth, you have to remove sugars from the diet...i.e. carbs...rice, potatoes, beets, etc


Yes, I get that. I know what carbs are and where they come from. I was just saying the link you provided: Dog Yeast Infections (Dog Candida) | Causes and Symptoms of Dog Candida | Natural Rinse for Yeasty Dogs 
only mentions grains.

Honey is full of carbs. Do you still think I should try that?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I guess that is a decision you will need to make.


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