# Questions to ask a potential obedience place?



## EMarie59 (Jan 22, 2011)

If this has been answered before, please provide me a link.
Someone had posted a list of things to ask and look for in regards to a Breeder.
What about an obedience place?
I am about to call one I found that is not even 10 minutes from me and it has been a loooooooong time since I have done obedience training with a dog in a class.
So many things have changed in the last 20 years with viewpoints on how to train and all.
Other than obvious warning signs,i.e., trainer wants to overpower my dog and slam him on the ground so he knows who ALPHA MAN is, etc.
What are things I should be looking for or asking?
Thanks


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Just make sure it is 100% positive reenforcement 
you can also ask for references and ask around about the trainer that how we found ours!


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Miss Molly May said:


> Just make sure it is 100% positive reenforcement


If that is how you plan to train. 

In order to know what you want in an obedience place is to first know which training style you want to use. Asking for references is a great way to get a feel but keep in mind, no one gives out bad references on purpose.

Other things to look into are the facility itself: what kind of equipment do they have? Is it clean? Convenient?

I would also look at what type of classes they offer and what the schedule is. Again is it convenient? Are they offering things I would like to learn?

The best way to get a feel for a class is to drop by unannounced if they will let you. Ask for their schedule and if it would be OK to observe a class. Talk with the students while there. 

I think as much as the reputation of a training facility is important, it also has to feel right to you.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

In addition to what is posted above, I would google the facility and see what comes up. There are plenty of websites (some rather obscure ones- or at least ones that you wouldn't generally frequent unless looking for a review). Just googling the facility should provide a couple sites where people have placed online reviews.

Also, I would take into account class size! Unless you are interested in only a basic lesson plan to execute at home during the week- you will probably want a class with a limited class size- no more than 5-7 dogs/trainer.

You might also ask for accreditations. Has the instructor studied under some well known person? Have they gone to some sort of dog training school or academy? I wouldn't put a ton of stock in this, but I might weight such training heavier to someone without such training...


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

Miss Molly May said:


> Just make sure it is 100% positive reenforcement


Yeah! Because anyone who might use corrections as way of effecting a dog's behavior is probably a dog abuser. Also we all know corrections never work.


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## EMarie59 (Jan 22, 2011)

GREAT suggestions and advice here, thank you all!

As I am typing this, a certain dog who I will leave nameless, Ahem! is now literally throwing his rope toy up in the air where I am sitting.
Ok..I get the hint, I have been on this laptop too long...
Until later!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I would want to know (in detail) what kind of training methods they use. I've seen many websites with a lot of words that say absolutely nothing. They guarantee amazing results with no explanation of how they achieve them. 

For me personally, I'd avoid any place that says you _have_ to use a particular kind of collar. Because I've taken many classes at humane societies a lot of them say you CAN'T use training collars (chokes, prongs) and that's okay with me. I have prong collars, and if I want to use them outside class I still can - I'll use a flat collar, or a front hook harness such as the Sense-ation if I need more control in class. 

I'll also avoid any place that disdains motivational training and talks about using food as a "bribe", that says praise should be a sufficient reward, that the dog should "work for you" and that using food or toys as a reward means that they're not. 

If they offer a wide variety of classes, even better - agility, rally, nosework, etc.

ETA: I agree with the suggestion to observe a class, that's going to tell you more than anything else if it's a place you want to train.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

rvadog said:


> Yeah! Because anyone who might use corrections as way of effecting a dog's behavior is probably a dog abuser. Also we all know corrections never work.


Do you have something constructive to add to the thread or did you just join the discussion to mock another poster?


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> If that is how you plan to train.
> 
> In order to know what you want in an obedience place is to first know which training style you want to use. Asking for references is a great way to get a feel but keep in mind, no one gives out bad references on purpose.
> 
> ...


This is the only way I have learned to train what are the other methods?


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

Oh! I didn't realize that we should let unconstructive, ignorant and misleading advice go with out being challenged. Sorry.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I would want to know (in detail) what kind of training methods they use. I've seen many websites with a lot of words that say absolutely nothing. They guarantee amazing results with no explanation of how they achieve them.


+1000!! I find this to be really important. *As an example*, since the OP is not in my area- I have been looking for a trainer/behaviorist for my brother's dog. I stumbled upon this website that promises the world, but nowhere could I find _how_ they accomplish those goals. They even offer a "100% Lifetime Guarantee" whatever that means. I would avoid this place like the plague.
Fetchers K9 Academy in South Bend, Indiana - Dog Training


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## EMarie59 (Jan 22, 2011)

rvadog said:


> Yeah! Because anyone who might use corrections as way of effecting a dog's behavior is probably a dog abuser. Also we all know corrections never work.


Thank you!

NOTE TO SELF: Also watch out for arrogant, know-it-all trainers.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I personally wouldn't train at a place that "only" used positive reinforcement, so when I ask that question it's for a different reason (if they say yes, I go the other way).

IMHO you can ask all the questions you want, but what is most important is to go watch an actual class being taught, preferably at the level you will be enrolling in (whether it be puppy, novice, etc) so you can see dogs who will behave in a similar manner to yours and how the instructor handles training problems.

If they don't let you go watch a class or two, run, don't walk, the other way.

I prefer larger classes myself, but that's strictly personal preference.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

Miss Molly May said:


> This is the only way I have learned to train what are the other methods?



There are many, many methods of dog training. There are many people (myself included) that think 100% positive training, all the time, without regards to the temperament, goals, or issues with the dog at hand is as bad as 100% compulsion based training. I would suggest you start a thread.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

One thing I like is to ask if I can come and watch classes (not taking a dog) to just see the trainer, the dogs, and the techniques. This can really give you a feel for the class and all the best trainers have no trouble with people coming in to watch a class like this.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Miss Molly May said:


> This is the only way I have learned to train what are the other methods?


Short answer, yes. 

100% positive (meaning absolutely no corrections) is actually pretty difficult to do (IMO). Most use a combination of mostly positive with some correction (voice or physical) and then there are still people that use primarily compulsion. I don't want to hijack the thread further with talk of different training methods and which is better than the other.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

rvadog said:


> Oh! I didn't realize that we should let unconstructive, ignorant and misleading advice go with out being challenged. Sorry.


Nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone else. But perhaps you can expand on your post, such as an explanation of why you disagree and what you'd do instead instead, rather than just making a snarky comment about someone else's suggestion. How does that help the OP?


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

rvadog said:


> Oh! I didn't realize that we should let nonconstructive, ignorant and misleading advice go with out being challenged. Sorry.


 
Sorry Guru of dog obedience my nonconstructive, ignorant and misleading advice worked for me!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hi emarie,

I tried the 100% positive stuff had to some degree had great results. The main reason i had to start using corrections via prong collar was heeling and reactivity on the leash.

Definitely try to keep it positive, but i don't see anything wrong with a quick "pop" on the collar for a well needed correction. It has done wonders for Cody...


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

I'd ask if the trainer has worked with GSD's before and if they like the breed. I have met trainers who don't like shepherds. You don't want that trainer.


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## EMarie59 (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks everyone for their advice, I really do appreciate it!
I called the place and since this is a small town and sadly, most of these people do not spay, neuter, nor train their dogs, she has no classes.
She wants to meet Chance Tuesday in the morning. I explained his background, what I have observed so far, what I am expecting/needing in regards to him.
She seems very nice, though it doesn't mean she is a good trainer, and I know that. however, it is a start. If I do not like you, you're not going to be training my dog. I don't care how good you may be.
However, I liked that she said every dog is different and needs to be treated that way.
She uses food for training, alot of praising as well. She agrees that he needs to have socialization and not be cooped up with me in the house here. However, I do not want Chance having an encounter with an aggressive dog and make his now great temperament change as a result of that. So things with him have got to be in controlled settings. Anyways, that is what my gut is saying. I know I am not a trainer, but I am seeing some protective instincts with him already in regards to the house and me, and I do not want it getting to the point that he starts getting mean.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

EMarie59 said:


> However, I do not want Chance having an encounter with an aggressive dog and make his now great temperament change as a result of that. So things with him have got to be in controlled settings.


My personal opinion on socializing to other dogs is that your dog doesn't need to meet every dog for it to be socializing. Part of socialization is just being exposed to different places and things. Walking him where he will see other dogs but not necessarily meeting them will help them to become no big deal and just become a normal boring part of every day life.


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## EMarie59 (Jan 22, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> My personal opinion on socializing to other dogs is that your dog doesn't need to meet every dog for it to be socializing. Part of socialization is just being exposed to different places and things. Walking him where he will see other dogs but not necessarily meeting them will help them to become no big deal and just become a normal boring part of every day life.


Good point. Problem is..there are way too many dogs loose around here and they are not nice. You never know where one may come running out from.
Honestly, these people need to have their heads examined...and their dogs removed.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> My personal opinion on socializing to other dogs is that your dog doesn't need to meet every dog for it to be socializing. Part of socialization is just being exposed to different places and things. Walking him where he will see other dogs but not necessarily meeting them will help them to become no big deal and just become a normal boring part of every day life.


100% agree. 
When we socialized our previous rescue dogs we made it a point to walk them in an area where they could see other dogs, at first, to gauge reaction. You can work him into an actual meeting, when you feel comfortable based on your training sessions and work with you behaviorist.
You'll see lots of threads/posts about working your dog in a pet store/Petco/etc. You should read them and decide that based on your preference

I have also found that the parking lots of places like this work well. I found setting up in a corner or far from the entrance of the Petco we go to works. Your dog can see lots of dogs and people but doesn't have to meet them. Just an idea. Even the parking lot of a grocery store works well because of the people coming and going.

Follow your instincts and you'll be fine. Even though it's been a while, this isn't your first dog.

:gsdbeggin: Sorry, I just love this little guy.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

its all about what you are comfortable with and what your beliefs are. imo i would like my trainer to have a lot of options out on the table for me. when i went to my first OB class, she told us about different collars, how they were used, how not to use them, safety, etc. i wasnt sure how to use a prong, and had thought about getting one, she showed me how to use it and i love it. i like postive renforcement but also believe that if it doesn't work, to try something else depending upon the situation. collar pops work for me in certain situations but i dont pop it like cesar millian where my dog yelps in pain. find everything that you would like emplimented with your dog and see who offers that. do i agree with my trainer 100% no, but honestly, im pretty sure your never going to be able to find that. but if the trainer listens to your needs, they should be able to find a solution. and that is what makes a good trainer imo. not someone who says oh well it worked for this dog so it will work for yours.


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## EMarie59 (Jan 22, 2011)

Cass and DTS, agreed. Thank you!

I am REALLY out of the loop in regards to collars. Back with Duchess, there were the normal type collars and the choke collar.
DONE.
Now there is...geez. I can't keep up!


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## EMarie59 (Jan 22, 2011)

CassandGunnar said:


> 100% agree.
> When we socialized our previous rescue dogs we made it a point to walk them in an area where they could see other dogs, at first, to gauge reaction. You can work him into an actual meeting, when you feel comfortable based on your training sessions and work with you behaviorist.
> You'll see lots of threads/posts about working your dog in a pet store/Petco/etc. You should read them and decide that based on your preference


 
OOH..I like this idea. There is one about 40 minutes from me.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I really love how proactive you are EMarie. You ask smart questions too  . I wish I had done some more research before selecting our training facility, as the class setting was not right for Mr. Reactive, Fearful Niko.

We drove an hour to his classes, can you expand your range to get more options since the nearest facility is so short of clients? And I'll add my vote to the people saying you should observe a class or two to get a feel for the instructor.


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## EMarie59 (Jan 22, 2011)

Good_Karma said:


> I really love how proactive you are EMarie. You ask smart questions too  . I wish I had done some more research before selecting our training facility, as the class setting was not right for Mr. Reactive, Fearful Niko.
> 
> We drove an hour to his classes, can you expand your range to get more options since the nearest facility is so short of clients? And I'll add my vote to the people saying you should observe a class or two to get a feel for the instructor.


Thanks! 
As a matter of fact I just got off the phone with Shannon who is with WV Dog Rescue. (wonderful woman!)
She knows a trainer who is 20 minutes from me who has experience with GSD and has classes going on.
The other trainer I had spoken with today was very nice, but no classes.
I would prefer Chance to be with other dogs, people, in a controlled environment. So, I am waiting to hear back from her so I can get signed up with this other trainer who is according to Shannon is very good.
He needs to get into something ASAP before anything weird starts happening. I am not knowledgeable enough to see something that may be starting that others would.
Chance is phenomenal and I want to give him the best as he deserves it.
:wub:


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

You should be able to go and observe an obedience class. If they don't allow visiters, go someplace else. Sometimes they say one thing and do another. I found out the hard ($$$) way.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

wildo;2018640They even offer a "100% Lifetime Guarantee" whatever that means. I would avoid this place like the plague.
[URL="http://www.fetchersk9.com/" said:


> Fetchers K9 Academy in South Bend, Indiana - Dog Training[/URL]


That means you pay a LOT of money up front and sign a contract so you can't get any back if you decide you don't like the trainer.


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## EMarie59 (Jan 22, 2011)

BlackPuppy said:


> You should be able to go and observe an obedience class. If they don't allow visiters, go someplace else. Sometimes they say one thing and do another. I found out the hard ($$$) way.


Good point!


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## oilerfan (Aug 26, 2008)

I think we should all stop judging each other and do what is best for our dogs based on what we feel as individuals and our own special circumstances. Correction training vs treat training has been debated since the beginning of time! haha Neither method is stupid, inhumane or disrespected in the dog trainer community if you are any kind of decent dog trainer. It's about believing in the methods you are using, agreeing with the trainer you want to work with and using any method correctly and humanely. Just because I correction/praise train my dog, does not make me an abuser. My dog is well adjusted, obedient and works for me because we have mutual respect for one another. I often recommend owners use treats for various reasons, I judge my clients and their dogs based on individual dog/handler situations.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Miss Molly May said:


> Sorry Guru of dog obedience my nonconstructive, ignorant and misleading advice worked for me!


The best method of training dogs is like the best method of educating people - depends on what you are teaching and the specific people (or dogs) that you are teaching it to.

Positive only works great for me to teach my extremely self confident pushy dog tricks but not so good to train him that he has to obey when i give him certain commands - i.e. stay down and wait particularly. A gentle remeinder now and then works much better. And even more so when he has his once in a while bout of dog agression.

Best advice I have heard is to go to the class to observe (make sure the same instructor as you will get is doing the class) and if anything doesn't seem right it probably is not the class for you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

EMarie59 said:


> If this has been answered before, please provide me a link.
> Someone had posted a list of things to ask and look for in regards to a Breeder.
> What about an obedience place?
> I am about to call one I found that is not even 10 minutes from me and it has been a loooooooong time since I have done obedience training with a dog in a class.
> ...


What do YOU want to do with the dog? Because it matters. 

If you want a dog that is an overall nice house dog that can be taken to the vet or a walk in the park without problems, it might be a different type of requirements than if you want your dog to get its OTCH (Obedience Championship). 

While you may get a nicely behaved dog from a trainer whose focus is obedience competitors, it will not be a pleasurable experience, being rivoted on perfect heel position, perfect sits, perfect finishes, etc. 

On the other hand, if you go to a Basic Manners type class, you might be terribly frustrated at the lack of experience and focus the other participants have. 

I do compete with my dogs, not at a high level, but whatever. I put them through classes with novice handlers, pet owners, and sometimes I have questioned the decision. These people can make you crazy. 

Either can. 

So, _ideally_ what would I ask? 

I would ask if they require any type of collar, and if they require certain types not be used -- if they do ask them to explain and get a feel from their answer whether you want to continue.

Next I would ask what qualifications the trainer has, are they APDT certified, are they certified to perform CGC or TDI tests, are they involved in a training club, shows, etc, have they titled their own dogs, have their students titled dogs.

Then maybe I would ask what classes they offer -- puppy, basic obedience, advanced, rally, agility, CGC, etc.

Then I would maybe ask if I could observe a session. 

But that is only if I was thinking this all out from the beginning. 

Usually what I ask is: do you have any openings, what day, what time, how much, how long?


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

EMarie59 said:


> However, I liked that she said every dog is different and needs to be treated that way.


This is one of the most important things IMO when it comes to training. And the most frustrating for me as well! My background is in training horses, not dogs. And maybe its just my location, but it can be very difficult to find flexible dog trainers who practice more than one method. Training animals you really need to be able to find the right solution for THAT animal and THAT handler. And its not one size fits all. But most training classes seem to be that way. And I also think its more or less important depending on your experience level. For example, I've worked with quite a few dog trainers now over the years. Not one have I agreed on everything with. But, this background gives me a boost up to pick my own method when the one being taught in a class doesn't work for me. I've learned from my mistakes and from exposure to more trainers, and more dogs. I really wish it was easier to find flexible, middle of the road dog trainers. 

That said, DO pick a trainer based on what method you want to follow the most right now... Which may be different from what you want to follow in the future. Where you and the dog are currently at can change things. When I first adopted Emma, it was ALL positive. I didn't even use a verbal correction with her for months. But she was also a quivering run and hide mess a good part of the time. Now, I use IMO a good balance of positive and correction. I think when the balance is right (and whats right depends on YOU and YOUR dog, at THAT given time!) the dog learns the quickest and keeps the most enthusiasm for the work. All positive or all negative have drawbacks when it comes to clear communication. Someone here gave an example where a trainer asked someone to try and get another person to sit in a chair only using the word no. And it took much longer than when a second group tried it only using the word yes. But when you're using BOTH yes and no, its even faster still. 

Class size has positives and negatives on both sides. And which you prefer can depend on your long time goals. If you're someone that doesn't work with a lot of dogs and just wants a great companion, a smaller class would be better because of more personalized attention. But for someone who works with a lot of dogs or is really into training large classes are a plus. I'm a training nerd, I love it. With both horses and dogs. And I do a lot of fostering so I've had quite a wide range of temperaments and personalities come through my care. And as I said before, I feel the training needs to be tailored to the specific dog. In a large class, you get to learn from others mistakes as well as your own. You learn a lot by observing how things are handled. Maybe something happens in the class with another dog, and later that happens at home with your dog and you already know how to handle it. Its all about whats in your 'bag of tricks' for training.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

selzer said:


> Next I would ask what qualifications the trainer has, are they APDT certified, are they certified to perform CGC or TDI tests, are they involved in a training club, shows, etc, have they titled their own dogs, have their students titled dogs.


I don't think "certified to perform CGC or TDI tests" tells you much of anything. Requirements to become a tester are pretty minimal, and I'm not sure AKC actually checks that you've ever taught classes...fill out the application, pay the fee, and you're a tester! and I know a lot of really good, highly qualified trainers who aren't APDT certified or certified to perform CGC tests.

As several here have said, the best thing to do is go watch a class or two. If you like what you see, and the dogs and handlers look like they're actually learning something, then give it a shot.

Personally, I look for a balanced approach to training, where behaviors are taught in a positive manner and enforced once the dog understands what is expected. Life isn't 100% positive reinforcement. I hate to see dogs that have learned to withhold behaviors until they know there's a cookie in it, and unfortunately I'm seeing that all too often.


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