# What is a successful breeding program?



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

What does it mean to you to have a successful breeding program? Is it having your dogs on the top step of a podium? Having your dogs out there in multiple venues? In real work perhaps? Is it other people using your dogs in their breeding program? Maybe having the worlds most used stud? I'm just curious what some of you consider success in a breeding program.


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## CrackedGSD (Sep 8, 2015)

currently in search of a puppy so i'll be following this thread


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

Bump. This could be a cool topic. I have no input (never bred, not planning to breed) but I'd love to read some responses!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think the bitch line is more important than having a stud dog on a podium. Though good studs are of course a big part of the whole picture.
A breeder that has a few generations of that bitch line producing consistently with the stud dogs that were carefully chosen to complement the pedigree is one that I'd call successful.
It shouldn't be about multiple numbers of 'wins', how many dogs they have out there 'working', but producing puppies that prove longevity, health, stable temperament and versatility in whatever the owners are asking of the pups(dogs). Though, the brags of what the dogs are doing is proof they are breeding for versatile dogs and not focused on any one extreme.
The breeders focus and goals should show through the progeny produced, and keeping back dogs that are breedworthy(by working/titling to prove what they are producing has achieved said goals) to have the foundation lines going. These breeders generally have a wait list because they aren't breeding constantly...and they are very discerning on which studs will be chosen for their program. 

Seldom do we see breeders that have multiple generations of a foundation line still in their breeding program. Many seem to import, breed, sell off that import, buy more, breed, sell with no real direction showing in what they are producing.


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## Amshru (Aug 7, 2015)

I'm really interested in this, not because I have bred or understand much about it, but because my dog's pedigree seems totally weird to me. The sire's line is all Sieger, SCHH3, IPO3, VA etc, but the dam's line has nothing. I find it strange that the sire seems to be available to any breeding and would have expected that his owners would have wanted to see great offspring. It might be a case of any stud fee will do, but it makes me interested to know what others consider a great breeding program.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Amshru said:


> I'm really interested in this, not because I have bred or understand much about it, but because my dog's pedigree seems totally weird to me. The sire's line is all Sieger, SCHH3, IPO3, VA etc, but the dam's line has nothing. I find it strange that the sire seems to be available to any breeding and would have expected that his owners would have wanted to see great offspring. It might be a case of any stud fee will do, but it makes me interested to know what others consider a great breeding program.


Some stud owners will allow breedings to be done, regardless of the bitches achievements.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

This is coming from a regular person that dabbles in stuff but doesn't concentrate on one thing(agility, therapy, rally, obedience) I am interested in a dog that is versatile. I don't look at titles but rather what kind of pups are produced. I'm interested in a breeder that produces dogs that are used for multiple things, from a companion pet to a police dog. I think if a breeder can produce dogs that can be used for most anything but don't need to be is pretty solid. I'm not sure if that makes sense?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

If my program is meeting my goals; to produce a utilitarian working dog, generation after generation; than it is successful.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

A criteria for me to consider a breeder as successful in breeding is health, breeding with it in mind, testing, and producing healthy pups. 

It is hard to have a good dog in any venue from pet to police if it is crippled with hip dysplasia or plagued with other health problems.

I also think titling is important. It gives one a reference frame from which to make reasonable comparisons of different dogs and different lines.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. 
I was thinking about this last night. I was reading a facebook thread and people were mentioned with "successful" breeding programs. Now that's in quotations, not because those people aren't successful, but rather because I think we all may have a different idea of what successful is. It seems to me, that too many put their success on their progeny making it far in the sport world. This is not an easy task and they should be proud, but is this what determines that a breeder is successful? Like wise does winning a big show make a breeder successful? Ultimately, I personally don't think there is any one thing that makes a breeding program successful or not. It's multiple things.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

I think there are many parts of the successfull breeder equation. 
First, what has the stock you are going to breed accomplished? Multiple venues? With this breed, I think versatility is important. A showline should be able to work and show just as working lines should be able to work and show (in theory of a perfect world). 
Second, what are the breeding goals of each litter produced? Do the parents fit the bill your are trying to fill? I feel like just because 2 dogs have titles and are "breed worthy" doesn't mean you should just throw them together. Just because you have a few titled bitches, and a decent stud, doesn't mean you should breed all your bitches to him EVERY heat cycle. 
Each breeding should be like a work of art. Time should be taken to scrutinize pedigrees and
Match the right bitch to the right stud to produce the right offspring for the goals you are trying to reach. 
Temperament is important.. How does the dog act off the field? 
Physical and health.. Are the puppies strong in pigment, structurally correct? 
What percent of puppies are out working and doing what they were bred to do. Work, show, LE, therapy, etc.. I know that can depend on the owner, but does the breeder keep a pup or two to train and raise and title in venue(s) to prove what they are producing is capable. 
To me, to be a success takes time and effort.. More than just titling and trailing. 
There are some breeders out there who can be claimed "responsible" because they title and health test.. But to me, if you breed each dog every cycle to your only studs and your producing 7-8 litters a year.... Then it's about $$ not producing the best.. 
They should be on top of any issues that arise within the litter and make sure that future litters don't continue to produce those qualities. 
Learning never should stop.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The kennels/programs that come to mind when I think of "successful breeding" are those that are on their 4-5+ generation of breeding their dogs/their line. Obviously some outcrossing is necessary, but high volume kennels that are always buying dogs from elsewhere and breeding them doesn't spell "success" to me even if they can sell 15 litters a year. I like to see the lines go back at least four generations in that breeder's name, especially if it's a dam line. I like to see repeat customers and referrals, and I like to see the dogs being consistently successful at whatever that breeder/kennel is breeding for (working dogs, Schutzhund dogs, herding dogs, multi-titled dogs). Off the top of my head, there are six people/kennels that immediately come to my mind (I'm sure there are more! these are just ones I've had experience with) and they all fit my criteria even though they don't all overlap as far as the type of dog they breed and the niche the dogs fill. Since the thread is asking about the whole breeding "program", the success to me is much broader scope than just acquiring and breeding "top" dogs or producing a few national level SchH3 dogs in one generation.

Also, I don't feel that a particular pairing or litter can't be "successful" just because it's not part of a "successful program", if that makes sense. I know a few people who have been in GSDs and breeding for 50+ years and might breed a litter once every 15 years. I would not call them a successful program because they obviously aren't meeting my own criteria for that, but they can breed 2-4 litters in a lifetime that are nice quality, successful litters. There are people who don't have a successful breeding program as a goal, simply breed once when they are ready to produce a new sport/work/pet/whatever prospect for themselves (this is not unique to GSDs, I see this a lot in the other sports I do where we overlap with herding breeds that are also pretty serious into herding and breeding a new herding dog).


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

It is not just multi generations. There are multiple breeders across the country that have gone through litters naming conventions a few times, due to large # of females. 

1. Are they keeping dogs back from their breeding program and raising, training and working the dogs through the level that they are focused on themselves? It is great getting feedback on what a breeder produces, but it pales in comparison and true, usable hands on experience to really doing all the work themselves. 

2. Even it is at a local level, a breeder that takes care of, trains and handles/competes with their dogs (in any venue) is a huge benefit. It does not matter if the breeder is not good at training and competing, it shows commitment and focus. As the saying goes, “walk the center line”.

3.Does the breeder truly evaluate their dogs and are they black and white on how the dogs are and what they produce? How many dogs “disappear” from a breeding program after a litter, never to be heard of again?


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Staatsmacht
Esblokhof
Mohnwiese
Equidius
Schiffslache
Wolfsheim


These are a few, multiple generations. Using their own dogs, top sport and plenty of LE dogs there too.

IMO its simple enough to find them, I dont see it as subjective at all. Either you have the results, or no one has heard of you or seen your dogs work..which is the category most of the kennels touted on here fall into.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

:thumbup:

Very subjective....especially here in the U.S. since no requirements beyond pedigree are required to register and breed under the AKC.

btw, IMO, in blue...WL breeders who put the effort in to prove their dogs in work AND conformation are really going the extra mile here in the U.S. They don't whine about getting a solid SG on the dog, they train and get out there and do it. I saw some of them at the show in NY. 

Conformation showing is about structure but it is also another venue which tests the dog's temperament. The ones who don't even try and whine about not ever being able to be top of the class in conformation aren't looking at the big picture. 




mycobraracr said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> I was thinking about this last night. I was reading a facebook thread and people were mentioned with "successful" breeding programs. Now that's in quotations, not because those people aren't successful, but rather because I think we all may have a different idea of what successful is. It seems to me, that too many put their success on their progeny making it far in the sport world. This is not an easy task and they should be proud, but is this what determines that a breeder is successful? Like wise does winning a big show make a breeder successful? *Ultimately, I personally don't think there is any one thing that makes a breeding program successful or not. It's multiple things.*


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I remember going to a handling class and there was a breeder of welch terriers (sp?) and a number of the owners of her puppies were there-a lot of children learning how to handle. One of her buyers was taking a class where I did and she asked about them-Have no idea how the dogs did in the show ring-but to me she was a successful breeder-her dogs were a handful-lol


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

A good breeding program consistently produces long lived, structurally sound, healthy athletic dogs of exemplary temperament. I do appreciate an abundance of personality as well. 

A good breeding program builds on its strengths while openly acknowledging the weaknesses. 

A good breeding program demands strong people & canine skills, a deep understanding of breeding, passion, vision, integrity & a fearless determination to do it right even when that involves painful sacrifices. 

Oh, the hide of a rhino to withstand jabs & insults combined with the deft, sensitivity of a neurosurgeon in navigating others foibles & sensibilities.


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