# Coatie Question



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

How common is this?

I was looking through some progeny of a dog, and one of the litters appears (based on pics) THREE long coats in a 5 puppy litter. Neither mom or dad are coaties, and glancing quickly through pictures of progeny of both, I don't see any others.

Is this common at all? Thought it was interesting.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm definitely no expert on breeding or genetics, but based off of what i've read, all the sire and dam have to do is have the long coat gene to pass it on. Neither actually have to be long coats, but as long as they have those genes in their dna, it can be passed on to the puppies. 

On observation alone, it's a lot more common with show lines than with working lines, but i don't have any numbers to back that up.

I know there was a good website or thread (can't remember which) explaining all of this in terms of genetics. Which genes are dominant, recessive, etc. and how they're passed on, but I'll have to look around for that.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

It's a simple recessive gene. 2 stock coats can produce coatie puppies if both carry the recessive. The old Punnett Square method says in that case 25% of the litter would be homozygous stock coat, 50% heterozygous stock coat (so normal coat but carrying long coat as recessive) and 25% would be homozygous long coat, and thus would be long coats. So statistically, 1 out of 4 would be a coatie. But genes frequently pay not attention to statistics, so 3 out of 5 is certainly a possibility. 

This may not have shown up in previous progeny because the other mates they were bred to did not carry the long coat recessive, so it couldn't be expressed in any pups, or because the genes just happened to fall the other way and not produce any coats just like this litter produced an overabundance of them compared to what would be predicted.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Chris.... do you get many long coats? It seems they're much more common with the show lines than with the working lines. Any reason why that is?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Yes, I know they don't have to be long coats to pass it on, but I'm not sure I've seen 3 out of 5 puppies in a litter be coaties when the parents are not.

I know I've seen the genetics of LC's before, but don't recall where I've seen it. I thought it was a pretty recessive trait.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Chris Wild said:


> It's a simple recessive gene. 2 stock coats can produce coatie puppies if both carry the recessive. The old Punnett Square method says in that case 25% of the litter would be homozygous stock coat, 50% heterozygous stock coat (so normal coat but carrying long coat as recessive) and 25% would be homozygous long coat, and thus would be long coats. So statistically, 1 out of 4 would be a coatie. But genes frequently pay not attention to statistics, so 3 out of 5 is certainly a possibility.


Thanks, you posted while I was posting again. I couldn't remember what it was considered--I thought it was a recessive gene.

Does seem like genetic stats didn't agree with that one in what was produced! 

I just haven't seem that many in one litter before.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

yTechnically, each individual pup has a 25% chance of being homozygous stock coat, 50% chance of being heterozygous for stock coat, and 25% chance of being homozygous long coats.  It's entirely possible for the whole litter to fal under one of the 25%'s. 

I'm currently slogging through Biology for health-care majors.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I have a friend that bought a puppy from a WGWL litter with 2 stock coated parents. 8 puppies- 4 were coats, 4 were stock- although 2 of those 4 were pretty longish stock coats as well.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I think most show lines carry the coat gene - also I know alot of SL breeders think the thick lush desireable coat may be lost if the long coat gene is eliminated...and I agree that it is more common in Euro SL than WL....I have only had them in one litter so far....3 of 7 males were coated....

Lee


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Lucy Dog said:


> Chris.... do you get many long coats? It seems they're much more common with the show lines than with the working lines. Any reason why that is?


This little fuzzy girl is from Chris's recent litter: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/152412-jinx.html


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> This little fuzzy girl is from Chris's recent litter: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/152412-jinx.html


I know there are long coats from working lines, it just seems that 9 out of 10 times they're from WG show lines. I was just wondering why that is.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Lucy Dog said:


> I know there are long coats from working lines, it just seems that 9 out of 10 times they're from WG show lines. I was just wondering why that is.


I think it is because the genetic pool for the show lines is much smaller than the working lines.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Castlemaid said:


> I think it is because the genetic pool for the show lines is much smaller than the working lines.


Either that or maybe most of show lines tend to go back to a handful of dogs that WERE coats.


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