# May have to un-adopt due to aggression



## Dryden (Feb 24, 2012)

Hi, everyone. We really need the advice of a good community that has experience with these situations right now. 

Background:
My wife and I rescued a 3-4 year old male White Shepard (Niko) in early November. We know he was extremely neglected to the point that his coat turned yellow and he had a ton of health issues when we first adopted him, and now he is well on his way to being a hansome and healthy boy. The rescue isn't certain weather or not he was abused. He's also on thyrotab medication for a thyroid condition.

His issues and the recent event:
Niko has been possessive of bones, but especially me. He would bark/growl at people who came near us when I pet him (indoors). I would immediately stop petting him and walk away. Unfortunately, this has had no effect on his behavior. When he first started this behavior, we made sure to keep him blocked off away from me for most of the day. He's barked at grown adults, and children (this worries us). I felt as though I had to hold him back a few times even though he was barking. Last week my wife picked up a remote control next to us and this set him off. He tried to attack and bite her. He ended up clipping her and she has a bruise and a pretty significant scratch. I pulled him off before he could follow up. He showed no aggression towards me, only her, even when i restrained him. He went from 0-60 in a split second. Due to his previous growling and aggression, we are aware of all the signs, but this came out of nowhere. As a result, we're keeping him limited to the 1st floor of the house only. What complicates the matter is that my wife is pregnant and due in August. Right now, we don't trust him around children. We purchased a muzzle, but what kind of life would it be for him to always be muzzled whenever we have people around? He's such a sweet, obedient and loving dog to me, but therein lies the problem. These issues only happen when I'm in close proximity to him. When I'm not around, he treats my wife with as much love as he treats me. That same night we were all in the same room when she came home from work and he ran to her, pushed himself into her wagging his tail and greeting her. It's extremely tough for me b/c I've never had a connection with a dog like I've had with Niko. When we adopted him, the rescue had seen no signs of aggression on his part.

Giving him back to the rescue:
I feel like this is the only choice we can make right now. Here are the reasons as I see them:

1) With our first child on the way and a dog that's shown aggression and now bitten my wife, it would be irresponsible to keep him with a baby in the house.
2) The humane society we adopted him from absolutely loved him and is a non-kill shelter.
3) He's shown far to much possessive aggression of me without any change in behavior. We've consulted German Shepard trainers with over 35 years of experience, read online, and literally tried everything. His behavior isn't changing.
4) What kind of life will it be for him to always have to be muzzled or blocked off in the house?

Before adopting Niko, my wife and I had waited 5 years until we knew the time was right and we could afford to give a dog the time, attention and highest quality of life possible. My wife is very upset for the same reasons I am. She loves him, but she just can't trust him anymore. The idea of giving him back to the rescue weighs extremely heavily with us.

If anyone thinks this is the right/wrong decision, please post your opinion and why you think it. If you have any suggestions on ways to correct the behavior, please respond. This whole situation is breaking our hearts.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

I'm no expert.....but you mentioned he is on medicine for a thyroid condition. When was the last time he had bloodwork and his dosing evaluated? Thyroid conditions can cause aggression. I would rule out anything medical, such as being undermedicated as a first stop. 

I know that isn't a lot of help....but may be worth looking into. As for behavior, if you and your wife haven't done formal obedience with him, I would and get with a trainer that has GSD experience and can work with you on a personal level. The rescue may know of someone, or you can contact the German Shepherd Dog Club in your area to get recommendations.

Hope it all works out.

Just noticed you have spoke with trainers...no one had any ideas? Did you work with them over a period of time, what did they observe?


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I support your decision to return him to the rescue. There may be a tie-in to his thyroid condition, but I don't think your home (with a new baby on the way) is going to be the best option for him.

I see several "red flags" that to me are *huge* problems:
1. The unwarranted bite on your wife shows that he has unknown and unpredictable triggers.
2. He has few warning signs and he is being "forward" aggressive--not just in self-defense. 
3. He is not displaying bite inhibition when he does bite--that is, he isn't seeking to give a warning bite--he's trying to bite to harm.
4. He is displaying aggression to your wife, whom he should have accepted as a member of his family/pack by now.

Frankly, it would scare me to have this dog around children--no matter the training you put into him. There are nice dogs out there who do not pose a risk to you and your wife and your future baby.

Please contact the rescue and make arrangements to return him--they can make the decision whether to give him more time to normalize with his thyroid meds.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

A lot of people will give suggestions on a zillion ways to try to fix him. 

It's a no brainer for me. With a baby on the way your hands will be full and having an unpredictable aggresive dog who bites should not be part of the household IMO.

You would basically have to keep the dog locked up like a convict to have safety and I don't see how you would have time to manage a dog like that.

The risk is too great from my standpoint.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I agree with Christine and Andy. You needed a nice family dog, especially with a baby on the way. You got an unstable project dog that bites. He needs someone who is experienced in dealing with aggressive dogs and who is willing to take on a project


I wold also suggest not adding another dog to your household until Baby is home and healthy and things settle down around your house a bit.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

It is fortunate that you can return him without worrying about him being put down. You gave him a good home and a fair chance to determine if he is the right dog for you. Getting a mature dog of that size (or bigger) is always risky because you don't really know what baggage it is bringing.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Experienced breeder



BlackthornGSD said:


> I support your decision to return him to the rescue. There may be a tie-in to his thyroid condition, but I don't think your home (with a new baby on the way) is going to be the best option for him.
> 
> I see several "red flags" that to me are *huge* problems:
> 1. The unwarranted bite on your wife shows that he has unknown and unpredictable triggers.
> ...


Experienced Rescue volunteer



Emoore said:


> I agree with Christine and Andy. You needed a nice family dog, especially with a baby on the way. You got an unstable project dog that bites. He needs someone who is experienced in dealing with aggressive dogs and who is willing to take on a project
> 
> 
> I wold also suggest not adding another dog to your household until Baby is home and healthy and things settle down around your house a bit.


Christine and Emily have it right. Return the dog to rescue.


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## Dryden (Feb 24, 2012)

Originally I responded to the first post here, but after reading everything, I feel a lot better knowing that you all think we're making the right decision. I just wanted to make sure with your experience that we were indeed doing the right thing. We REALLY appreciate your experienced insights and advice. Here's a pic of my baby-boy, Niko. I'm going to miss him so much, but this will be for the best.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

I agree with everyone on taking him back. It's not like you just found out your wife is pregnant and giving the dog up because she's pregnant. You have been trying to make it work it's not like you're saying the dog might cause baby allergies or you won't have enough time you are worried about an attack that HAS happened so you're not over reacting. The fact is it's not even like he doesn't like your wife or hasn't bonded yet it sounds like he loves her just has other issues going on. If you feel like you MUST do something before giving up on him (which I could understand) then maybe re-check thyroid and I would actually hire a trainer who specializes in aggression and/or resource guarding and have them come to the home to work with the situations and let them see first hand how the dog changes when your wife is near you.


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm sorry he didn't work out for you but it sounds like this dog needs an adult only home which he can find if he goes back to rescue. Congrats on you and your wife's pregnancy. If you are interested in a dog in the future when you have young children, I would have to suggest getting a puppy from a reputable breeder (and this is coming from someone who only owns rescues).


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Dryden, I'm very sorry that things aren't working out. It's very possible that someone else can adopt the dog and train things to a _manageable level, _but that also means most likely in a house with no children and completely different circumstances. I applaud you willing to rescue a dog. 

Waiting until after the baby could definitely be a good thing. When my children were very young, all three under 5, we lost our shepherd. We went through and contacted breeders until one had an older dog that needed to be placed in a pet home. I cannot tell you how awesome this turned out to be. He was just over two and we had the greatest, "out of the package perfect" dog for over 10 years. I know lots of people will suggest puppies, but frankly, puppies are just as much (or more) work than babies, (training EVERYTHING, dealing with it's own maturation phases, and EXERCISE. Babies don't require nearly the exercise a growing GSD does or any pup really and you can exercise indoors with kids!! LOL) It will be up to you how much work you want to take on, but getting an adult dog from a breeder will allow you to know the history and the personality of the dog. Don't discount getting another adult, that most likely has already been obedience trained (basic) and house-broken, and possibly even raised around kids. 

Good luck to you, I know how this must cause you grief--but in the end, it's far less than if something happened to either your wife, or god forbid, your baby.


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

I think you are making the right choice too. I am happy the rescue will take him and work to find him a home that can work with him. The BEST part about rescue is that whoever adopts him will KNOW exactly what they are working with and he has the best chance of being with a person who can work with him.

It's hard to do this, but you have his and your family's health and safety to be concerned with.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Holmeshx2 said:


> I agree with everyone on taking him back. It's not like you just found out your wife is pregnant and giving the dog up because she's pregnant. You have been trying to make it work it's not like you're saying the dog might cause baby allergies or you won't have enough time you are worried about an attack that HAS happened so you're not over reacting. The fact is it's not even like he doesn't like your wife or hasn't bonded yet it sounds like he loves her just has other issues going on. If you feel like you MUST do something before giving up on him (which I could understand) then maybe re-check thyroid and I would actually hire a trainer who specializes in aggression and/or resource guarding and have them come to the home to work with the situations and let them see first hand how the dog changes when your wife is near you.


I agree with everything that has been posted. After re-reading my post I wanted to clarify those were options to look at before returning him to rescue. I felt the health issue should be looked at even if he is being returned, so that they know exactly what they are dealing with.

However if it were me...I have 3 kids and 2 dogs, and I wouldn't hesitate for a minute if a dog were unpredictable to return him. There are some things in life that are not worth the risk. Even well behaved/trained kids can test the most reliable of dogs sometimes, so if a dog were less then stable or predictable there would be no place for him in our home. 

Best of luck to you and your wife on your upcoming baby, and my heart hurts for you having to do the right thing by giving him the opportunity to find a home that he is better suited for.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Have you taken him to the vet to have his thyroid checked?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I think that you need to exhaust all efforts for your own peace of mind. Once everything is eliminated and nothing will help(medical, training advice, etc), which probably will be the case then you can bring him back and not constantly be upset or wonder what if. I personally know that if I was in the situation and I did everything I could that I would feel much better knowing I made the right decision. Good Luck and Congrats on your baby


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

It seems you came here just to get people to agree with you to send him back. If you have already made up your mind, fine. I doubt the thryroid thing is an issue if he behaves differently depending on who is in the room, but putting the thyroid condition, and unknown history possible abuse etc. out there is a convenient red herring that the problem is him and not you. You do not seem to be seeking any more information on how to solve it. Let go of any hearsay stories of past abuse etc., that thinking is affecting you and not him.

But let me ask since you brought it up, what do you mean you consulted with German Shepherd trainers? They came in, saw him acting with random aggression, and had no clue? If they really have no clue as to how he could be helped, they would probably have recommended he be put to sleep.

This is a situation that needs professional help, and for something like this, it's unreasonable to expect that anyone here can even begin to offer any advice with so little information. And we cannot expect you to be able to explain everything about the situation, since you are in the middle of it and cannot see what an observer can see (also, IF you have already made up your mind, you are not actually interested in trying to solve the situation anyway).

But maybe if people from here, or certainly any professional trainers in your area, could SEE with our own eyes how you and your wife behave around the dog-- and how the dog is reacting to these things, then this is probably a very manageable situation.

Watch any number of dog whisperer episodes, to see how a dog (a small dog, much of the time) reacts possessively over humans and other objects. And how that dog acts differently depending on who is around. See how quickly it can be solved, by someone who is looking directly at the situation and can tell you what you are doing wrong and how you help the dog from this point forward.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

If you didn't have a baby on the way I'd say look at some things, but since you do, it's really a no-brainer, as others said. Give him back.

That said, when you adopt in the future, don't rule out rescues, but keep in mind dogs need structure and to know who is the pack leader. I think you might have been lacking in that department. 
And that's fine, if that's the style ownership you would like to continue but don't get another German Shepherd, or another dog like this breed. 

But do come back here if you decide to get another, because you're going to need to revise some things to keep things on an even keel in your home. 

Good luck to you and your wife with the upcoming delivery


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## Dryden (Feb 24, 2012)

Ucdcrush said:


> It seems you came here just to get people to agree with you to send him back. If you have already made up your mind, fine.


The goal of posting here was to try to see if there was anything people could suggest that I haven't already done. 



Ucdcrush said:


> I doubt the thryroid thing is an issue if he behaves differently depending on who is in the room, but putting the thyroid condition, and unknown history possible abuse etc. out there is a convenient red herring that the problem is him and not you.


I'm just trying to give any potentially useful background information that I have to provide context for people who would care to offer advice. 



Ucdcrush said:


> You do not seem to be seeking any more information on how to solve it. Let go of any hearsay stories of past abuse etc., that thinking is affecting you and not him.


I would love additional information which is the main reason I posted here. We're in a situation that we take very heavily and we don't want to give him back just yet if there's time to help improve him. 



Ucdcrush said:


> But let me ask since you brought it up, what do you mean you consulted with German Shepherd trainers? They came in, saw him acting with random aggression, and had no clue? If they really have no clue as to how he could be helped, they would probably have recommended he be put to sleep.


They actually have not seen him in the house. They've seen him outdoors around other dogs and people. This trainer was in charge of his obedience lessons and had only observed him there. She has been training GSDs (home and police) for ~35 years. Based on your comment, I'm going to see if she can come and observe him in the house. 



Ucdcrush said:


> (also, IF you have already made up your mind, you are not actually interested in trying to solve the situation anyway).


This is the most logical choice I see at the moment. Because I'm in the middle of it, I'm looking for some outside perspective.



Ucdcrush said:


> But maybe if people from here, or certainly any professional trainers in your area, could SEE with our own eyes how you and your wife behave around the dog-- and how the dog is reacting to these things, then this is probably a very manageable situation.


Thanks. This is something we haven't tried yet.



Ucdcrush said:


> Watch any number of dog whisperer episodes, to see how a dog (a small dog, much of the time) reacts possessively over humans and other objects. And how that dog acts differently depending on who is around. See how quickly it can be solved, by someone who is looking directly at the situation and can tell you what you are doing wrong and how you help the dog from this point forward.


My concern here is still that my wife and I can change our behavior if need be, but kids are hard to teach. 1 slip up would be all it takes for something very bad to happen. 

Ultimately I feel like I am the problem; however I've followed instructions of the trainer and online ideas (that I first ran by the trainer) to a T. So I honestly don't know what to do. This is why I like the idea of bringing a trainer to observe us in the home.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

This problem should be fairly easy to resolve use counter conditioning. A trainer familiar with this technique is what you want


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

Dryden said:


> My concern here is still that my wife and I can change our behavior if need be, but kids are hard to teach. 1 slip up would be all it takes for something very bad to happen.
> 
> Ultimately I feel like I am the problem; however I've followed instructions of the trainer and online ideas (that I first ran by the trainer) to a T. So I honestly don't know what to do. This is why I like the idea of bringing a trainer to observe us in the home.


It's always possible there is a slip up, but the first thing to do is to create an environment where the dog is not attacking you or your wife. That is the major problem. When that has been addressed, I think you'll have to worry much less about the dog attacking anything else.

Going back to the dog whisperer thing, most of the time a dog is biting the owners, it's because the dog feels like he's in charge. Those dogs are usually spoiled, allowed to jump up on furniture, coddled when they are aggressive (told "it's OK", or picked up as happens with small dogs). The owner has little to no control over anything the dog does, and is often unwittingly rewarding the aggressive behavior. The dog has no "rules boundaries or limitations".

Once the dog gets the idea that you are in charge of everything and he is not, then the dog is re-conditioned to act differently than he has acted in the past -- those old neural pathways of his old reactions will still be in place -- the issue will be basically taken care of.

Also make sure he is getting exercise every day. Pent up energy usually comes out in destructive ways, and given what this dog is doing now, it's something you definitely need to have in place to make the training and reconditioning process go more quickly and endure.

There is a sub-forum on this board about finding a trainer in your area, you may want to give that a look. Good luck to you, I hope you can find a solution.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

My children are adults now but as a father of four I would never trust that dog around a baby.
It's easy for others to tell you how you can fix the dog or fix yourselves but you are the ones responsible for you baby.

Perhaps GregK or Ucdcrush would volunteer to take the dog off your hands and give it a good home.

At a later time you can find a good and safe dog for your family.

Best wishes to you.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I agree with what most others have said. At the end of the day the life and safety of a baby trumps the dog. If the dog cannot even be trusted around adults, who are generally calmer, quieter, and more respectful of animals, then it would seem very very risky and unfair to put that dog around a child.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

As a mother of two, I can tell you that you are in for an overwhelming time with a newborn, especially if this is your first. Do yourself and the dog a favor and return him to the rescue. In a few months you won't have time to eat or sleep, let alone deal with an unpredictable dog. 
Congrats on the baby.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Ucdcrush said:


> It seems you came here just to get people to agree with you to send him back. If you have already made up your mind, fine. I doubt the thryroid thing is an issue if he behaves differently depending on who is in the room, but putting the thyroid condition, and unknown history possible abuse etc. out there is a convenient red herring that the problem is him and not you. You do not seem to be seeking any more information on how to solve it. Let go of any hearsay stories of past abuse etc., that thinking is affecting you and not him.
> 
> But let me ask since you brought it up, what do you mean you consulted with German Shepherd trainers? They came in, saw him acting with random aggression, and had no clue? If they really have no clue as to how he could be helped, they would probably have recommended he be put to sleep.
> 
> ...


 
Would YOU risk your spouse and/or kid with an adult rescue dog of proven aggression issues?

Happen to know a good plastic surgeon?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Jack's Dad said:


> My children are adults now but as a father of four I would never trust that dog around a baby.
> It's easy for others to tell you how you can fix the dog or fix yourselves but you are the ones responsible for you baby.
> 
> *Perhaps GregK or Ucdcrush would volunteer to take the dog off your hands and give it a good home.*
> ...


 
Sounds like a good idea! I bet we can even get some volunteers to help with any shipping costs!


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

codmaster said:


> Would YOU risk your spouse and/or kid with an adult rescue dog of proven aggression issues?
> 
> Happen to know a good plastic surgeon?


Proven AGGRESSION? Re-read the OP. If you consider growling and barking (knowing NOTHING about what was going on that caused it; i.e. what the OP or his wife were doing) "proven aggression" then you have a misunderstanding of true aggression. Or you have bought into the story in the OP about why this dog is a ticking time bomb. Read the facts.

He's never bitten anyone. He is better when the OP is not around.

The owners need some training on how to behave around dogs, what to discourage and what to encourage, and the dog needs to experience this state in order to get him out of his old habits.


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## Dryden (Feb 24, 2012)

Ucdcrush said:


> Going back to the dog whisperer thing, most of the time a dog is biting the owners, it's because the dog feels like he's in charge. Those dogs are usually spoiled, allowed to jump up on furniture, coddled when they are aggressive (told "it's OK", or picked up as happens with small dogs). The owner has little to no control over anything the dog does, and is often unwittingly rewarding the aggressive behavior. The dog has no "rules boundaries or limitations".
> 
> Once the dog gets the idea that you are in charge of everything and he is not, then the dog is re-conditioned to act differently than he has acted in the past -- those old neural pathways of his old reactions will still be in place -- the issue will be basically taken care of.
> 
> Also make sure he is getting exercise every day. Pent up energy usually comes out in destructive ways, and given what this dog is doing now, it's something you definitely need to have in place to make the training and reconditioning process go more quickly and endure.


That first bit doesn't sound like him at all. He works for his treats. Although he doesn't get that many, maybe 1 per day unless we were trying to work with him on something. He's extremely obedient for me (come/sit/down have practically an instant response time) even in a high-distraction environment. He is slightly less obedient with everyone else. He is not allowed to free-roam in the house and never is allowed on furniture. Luckily he has never really tried to get up on furniture. He is very aware that I am the pack leader; however we believe that he doesn't see my wife as above him in the pack. Also, I work from home and probably take him on 4 walks between 9am and 5pm (he also gets 1 before and a few after), so he's pretty well exercised. I think the fact that I'm home with him all day is another contributing factor. Because he showed possessive aggression with me early on, we decided to keep him blocked off from me during the day. Unfortunately, he still exhibits the behavior.


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

Blocking a dog away is not going to solve anything. If you can get the dog to respect your space and to get away from you, without a physical barrier, you are getting somewhere.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Jack's Dad said:


> Perhaps GregK or Ucdcrush would volunteer to take the dog off your hands and give it a good home.


 
Hey dude. No need for the attitude. You too, grumpmaster.

FYI, I've done this with many dogs. I have 12 dogs here right now. About half of them were dogs that people didn't want any more and/or were about to be put to death because of aggression issues.


My advice to Dryden stands: 





GregK said:


> This problem should be fairly easy to resolve use counter conditioning. A trainer familiar with this technique is what you want


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Dryden said:


> Niko has been possessive of bones, but especially me. He would *bark/growl at people who came near us* when I pet him (indoors). I would immediately stop petting him and walk away. Unfortunately, this has had no effect on his behavior. When he first started this behavior, we made sure to keep him blocked off away from me for most of the day. * He's barked at grown adults, and children* (this worries us). I felt as though I had to hold him back a few times even though he was barking. * Last week my wife picked up a remote control next to us and this set him off. He tried to attack and bite her. He ended up clipping her and she has a bruise and a pretty significant scratch*. I pulled him off before he could follow up. He showed no aggression towards me, only her, even when i restrained him. *He went from 0-60 in a split second*. Due to his previous growling and aggression, we are aware of all the signs, but this came out of nowhere. As a result, we're keeping him limited to the 1st floor of the house only. What complicates the matter is that my wife is pregnant and due in August. Right now, we don't trust him around children. We purchased a muzzle, but what kind of life would it be for him to always be muzzled whenever we have people around? He's such a sweet, obedient and loving dog to me, but therein lies the problem. These issues only happen when I'm in close proximity to him. When I'm not around, he treats my wife with as much love as he treats me. That same night we were all in the same room when she came home from work and he ran to her, pushed himself into her wagging his tail and greeting her. It's extremely tough for me b/c I've never had a connection with a dog like I've had with Niko. When we adopted him, the rescue had seen no signs of aggression on his part.





Ucdcrush said:


> Proven AGGRESSION? Re-read the OP. If you consider growling and barking (knowing NOTHING about what was going on that caused it; i.e. what the OP or his wife were doing) "proven aggression" then you have a misunderstanding of true aggression. Or you have bought into the story in the OP about why this dog is a ticking time bomb. Read the facts.
> 
> *He's never bitten anyone. *He is better when the OP is not around.
> 
> The owners need some training on how to behave around dogs, what to discourage and what to encourage, and the dog needs to experience this state in order to get him out of his old habits.


Just clarifying that it appears the dog has bitten, or at least would've bitten if he hadn't been prevented. 

I'm not saying that what you're suggesting couldn't possibly work, but the dog HAS shown an inclination to bite in their home, seemingly for no reason. Reaching for a remote is definitely something that shouldn't garner that kind of response. Babies flail and reach all the time, including grabbing at pets. 

You seem to be assuming that the OP's don't know anything about how to behave around dogs, which isn't necessarily the case. I do agree with you that it's extremely difficult to diagnose and help people over the internet, but just as we shouldn't assume the dog is automatically dangerous, you shouldn't assume he is the right dog for this family, or that these people are doing everything wrong.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I agree with what most others have said. At the end of the day the life and safety of a baby trumps the dog.


But the great thing is that in this situation, the best interests of the baby and the best interests of the dog are aligned. It's not like they're dumping him at the city pound. He'll be returned to rescue, where he can be placed in a home that is better equipped to deal with him. If he stays with the OP, there _is_ the chance he might hurt the baby, in which case the dog will most likely be killed. 

I think a lot of times those of us who love a project, those of us who enjoy working with a challenging dog, those of us who have dealt with aggression before, those of us who "speak dog". . . . we forget that the majority of the population doesn't have those characteristics. They just want a well-behaved dog. If the OP's life situation were different, this might be the perfect opportunity to learn and grow and improve as a dog owner. The dog could become their project and both dog and human would be better for it. If there were no new baby in the picture, that's exactly what my advice would be. But there _is_ a newborn in the picture, and now is not the time for a project dog.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

GregK said:


> Hey dude. No need for the attitude. You too, grumpmaster.
> 
> FYI, I've done this with many dogs. I have 12 dogs here right now. About half of them were dogs that people didn't want any more and/or were about to be put to death because of aggression issues.
> 
> ...


All I can say is you must not have kids Greg.

The risk is not worth it IMO. 

As a side I don't understand people who want to save every dog in every situation no matter what. Let the dog go to someone who has the time and the knowledge to try to rehabilitate the dog.

Then they can spend time with their baby without worring constantly about the dog.

When people make a decision to have children then the childrens safety is more important. You can say I'm grumpy but it sure beats giving advice to someone that could turn out to have bad consequences.

At any rate, it's up to the OP to decide.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Emoore said:


> But the great thing is that in this situation, the best interests of the baby and the best interests of the dog are aligned. It's not like they're dumping him at the city pound. He'll be returned to rescue, where he can be placed in a home that is better equipped to deal with him. If he stays with the OP, there _is_ the chance he might hurt the baby, in which case the dog will most likely be killed.
> 
> I think a lot of times those of us who love a project, those of us who enjoy working with a challenging dog, those of us who have dealt with aggression before, those of us who "speak dog". . . . we forget that the majority of the population doesn't have those characteristics. They just want a well-behaved dog. If the OP's life situation were different, this might be the perfect opportunity to learn and grow and improve as a dog owner. The dog could become their project and both dog and human would be better for it. If there were no new baby in the picture, that's exactly what my advice would be. But there _is_ a newborn in the picture, and now is not the time for a project dog.


100% agree. Many people do not have the skills or desire to work with a problem dog. Othertimes the resources are not available. (i.e. finding a trainer willing to come to your house to work on a problem). It does not make you a bad person to admit you are in over your head, or to make sure you get the dog the help it needs to succeed. Another dog might be a better fit. To the OP please do what you feel in your heart is the correct thing.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Ucdcrush said:


> Proven AGGRESSION? Re-read the OP. If you consider growling and barking (knowing NOTHING about what was going on that caused it; i.e. what the OP or his wife were doing) "proven aggression" then you have a misunderstanding of true aggression. Or you have bought into the story in the OP about why this dog is a ticking time bomb. Read the facts.
> 
> He's never bitten anyone. He is better when the OP is not around.
> 
> The owners need some training on how to behave around dogs, what to discourage and what to encourage, and the dog needs to experience this state in order to get him out of his old habits.


ucd - maybe you should read the first post where the dog laid teeth on the wife and left her bruised and also with a scratch????????????

I will just assume that you must have missed that part along with the description of the dog actions.

BTW - would you take this dog into your house knowing it's actions (esp. if you had a small child and a spouse afraid of it)? Huh, would you?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Time for Moderator Intervention! 

Let's stop the back and forth bickering - I think the OP is making the best decision possible for the present situation, and that decision really should not cause this much interpersonal angst among some members here. Some people just like to argue for the sake of arguing, and does not offer anything constructive.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

My neighbor being overly emotional when her two dogs died, adopted two pit bull mixes without knowing their history. Well, she lost all her friends because one of the dogs is so aggressive you cannot get near her, and both have dog aggression. 

Over the long term, you are doing the right thing to return the dog.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Dryden said:


> Unfortunately, he still exhibits the behavior.


I love "MIND GAMES" for dogs who are uncertain and feel the need to guard/possess their things and/or their people. 

With an adult dog I would do the bloodwork, etc. Thyroid in particular since you already know there's a problem.

I understand you'll more than likely bring the dog back but do try to book mark this site and work the techniques even with a new dog you may acquire.

Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong

Playing for Confidence and Compliance
By M. Shirley Chong

I do not believe that dogs view human beings as if they were other dogs. However, I am convinced that when humans act in specific ways that dogs usually react in a predictable manner. A handler can use these specific reactions to modify a dog’s behavior--to help a fearful dog feel more confident and to influence an uncooperative dog into becoming more biddable.

If your dog shows one or more of the following symptoms, take him to your vet and ask about doing a six function plus TSH thyroid test, before you start the Mind Games. This test usually costs in the neighborhood of $35-40 plus whatever your vet charges for an office visit and blood draw. In Iowa, vets usually send this blood off to the University of Michigan or to Hemovet in California. As far as I know, there is no lab in the state of Iowa that can run this test. If your dog is hypothyroid, problem behaviors can disappear or become much less pronounced with treatment. Symptoms of hypothyroidism can include:

inexplicable and persistent weight gain
inexplicable weight loss
unusually heavy or thick coat
unusually sparse coat
unusually greasy coat
areas that have been clipped down grow back very slowly or not at all
generalized all over itchiness
generally crabby or crotchety attitude
spaced out some or all of the time
lethargy or reluctance to exercise
seems cold most of the time or seeks out warm places
suddenly fearful of things that weren’t a problem previously
softening of muscle tone even with regular exercise, particularly noticeable in the face
There are a number of leadership programs around, some of them more detailed than others. The following is what has worked for me and for students of mine but it’s not written in stone. If any part of the following is too difficult to carry out or might get you bitten, don’t do it! You don’t have to play all the Mind Games with your dog to get some benefit from the program. The more Mind Games you play, the faster and more dramatic your results will be.

If you are having serious problems with your dog, consult a dog trainer or behaviorist experienced in working with difficult dogs before changing any of your dog’s routines.

Note: a houseline is a 6-8 foot length of cord attached to your dog’s buckle or limited-slip collar for your dog to drag around the house. Spray it with Bitter Apple (or other anti-chewing product) to keep your dog from removing it.

If this is the first time you’ve used an anti-chewing product, make sure your dog doesn’t accustom himself to the taste by giving him the “shock” treatment with it. Apply some to a cotton ball or tissue. Then go to your dog and gently pop it into his mouth. He’ll go YUCK! and spit it out--praise like crazy, that’s exactly the reaction you want. You should only have to do this once. Again, if this is likely to get you bitten, don’t do it--consult an experienced trainer or behaviorist as soon as possible.

Mind Game #1: No More Kibble From Heaven!

Free feeding is the equivalent of kibble from heaven--some dogs seem to imagine that they own their bowl and that the food appears whenever they want it.

Feed your adult dog twice a day (puppies may need 2-6 meals per day depending on age and health status). Before you put the bowl down, have your dog do a sit. If your dog tries to dive on the bowl before you give him permission to eat, pick up the bowl and start over. When your dog stops eating and walks away from the bowl, pick up any remaining food and dispose of it.

Mind Game #2: No Free Lunches!

Dogs that never have to do anything to earn their living (their food) can become very spoilt. They see no reason to obey their owner at any time because they can get what they want (food) without any conditions at all.

At least four times a week feed your dog his entire meal from your hand. Divide your dog’s meal up into 15-25 parts (depending on the size of your dog, this might be anything from individual kibbles to small handfuls). Have your dog perform a simple command for every part of his meal. It doesn’t have to be complex--it can be sits, downs, stand, shake hands, salute, roll over, etc.

If your dog is overly rough about how he takes food, work on his eating-from-your-hand skills with his first meal fed this way. If he tries to grab the food roughly from you, pull your hand away, give him a short time out, then offer the food again. If your dog refuses to carry out known commands, quietly put his food away until the next regularly scheduled meal. It’s completely up to him whether he eats or not--don’t try to convince him. Let him discover where his own best interests lie!

Mind Game #3: No More “Pee-Mail”!

Dogs sometimes use urination and defecation to mark their own territories. Some males are particularly persistent about urine marking as many places as possible (some bitches do this as well). I call this “pee-mail”--dogs send social messages to other dogs with their urine. Dogs do not need to assert their ownership over a large territory; some dogs who mark the same places on a regular basis become quite territorial.

Urine marking is different from regular urination--the dog sniffs something (often a vertical object or a place where another dog has peed), then moves forward a little and sprinkles that place with a few drops of urine.

If your dog is in the habit of marking during walks on lead, take control of his pee-mail. Give him (or her) two chances to urinate at home and then insist that your dog keep up with you during your walk. You may have to use a head halter to give you control over your dog’s nose.

Mind Game #4: Patience!

Dogs that are overly pushy and dogs that are too fearful share one important personality trait: they tend to be impatient. They move, act and make decisions too quickly. Having your dog do a thirty minute down stay every day helps teach your dog how to be patient and just relax.

First teach your dog to do a down. Then put him on leash, have him do a down and run the leash under your own foot. Leave your dog enough slack to lie comfortably but not enough to be comfortable sitting or standing.

If your dog gets up, just stay quiet and keep pressure on the leash. Let your dog discover how to be comfortable. Your dog will eventually relax and just hang out.

If you do this regularly, your dog will start to relax sooner and sooner.

Mind Game #5: Learning His Place!

Controlling the best spots to sleep are one of the games dogs play with each other to establish authority. As almost every dog could tell you, the best spots to sleep in any house are the furniture and human beds.

If you are playing Mind Games because your dog lacks respect for you, prohibit your dog from getting up on the furniture and on your bed. If he doesn’t respect your “Off!” command, attach a houseline to move him when he doesn’t feel like moving. Don’t be harsh, just firm and matter of fact.

If your dog has a favorite place to sleep (a particular corner or dog bed), make sure to take control of that place at least once a day by making your dog move out of it and then sitting or standing in it yourself for a few minutes.

If your dog sneaks up on the bed with you after you fall asleep, put him in a crate or shut him out of the bedroom.

If you are playing Mind Games because your dog is fearful or anxious, it is important to get your dog out of the bedroom. British trainer John Rogerson has noted that he has never seen a case of separation anxiety in a dog that routinely sleeps outside the bedroom. I have seen a few cases of separation anxiety in dogs that didn’t sleep in the owner’s bedroom but *did* sleep with one or more other dogs. Removing the other dogs did trigger anxiety, so make sure your dog is sleeping in a room alone.

Mind Game #6: Taking Back Your Space!

Dogs can take control of a space by lying in the middle of the traffic pattern or by lying in the doorway. Anxious dogs are trying to prevent their owner from leaving, dogs with leadership ambitions are trying to control their owner’s movement. In dog society, the lesser ranked dogs have to move around the higher ranked dogs.

If your dog is lying in your way, shuffle your feet and shuffle right through him. You don’t want to hurt him (that’s why you’re shuffling) but you do want him to move for you.

Don’t ask your dog to move or warn your dog that you are about to make him move. Make it your dog’s responsibility to keep an eye on you and to move as needed to accommodate you.

If you think your dog might bite you, consult a trainer or behaviorist with experience dealing with aggressive dogs ASAP! In the meantime, put a buckle or limited-slip collar on your dog and attach a houseline. Use the houseline to move your dog.

Mind Game #7: Follow the Leader!

Teaching your dog to follow you teaches your dog to keep an eye on you and to accommodate your movements. You’re an important person in your dog’s life and if he doesn’t know it, it’s time for him to learn it.

Tie your dog’s leash to your belt or around your waist for at least one hour each day. Go about your every day business without paying particular attention to your dog. Don’t warn your dog you are about to move, don’t pay attention to your dog, don’t coax him to come with you. Make it his responsibility to follow his leader (you!) around.

It’s inconvenient to do--but the more often you can do this, the faster you will see a change in your dog’s behavior.

Mind Game #8: Take Control of Your Dog’s Body!

Dogs prefer to be touched on their own terms. Some dogs want to be petted constantly and some dogs would prefer only to be handled by invitation only.

If your dog solicits petting constantly, stop all free petting. Insist that your dog earn each petting session by performing one or more commands and keep each petting session short in duration.

If your dog doesn’t enjoy being handled, make sure that you handle your dog all over every day. Make sure you can touch and examine every part of your dog’s body, including his ears and between his pads.

If it gives you more confidence in handling, wear gloves until you feel safe handling your dog. If you think there is a high probability that your dog will bite you, seek professional help!

Mind Game #9: S/he Who Owns the Most Toys Wins!

In dog society, the dog able to control the most resources is usually the highest ranked. Giving a dog lots of toys that no one else touches can give that dog a mistaken impression of his own rank in the world. Overly confident dogs can become aggressive resource guarders and overly fearful dogs feel stressed by the enormity of their responsibilities.

Pick up and put out of your dog’s reach all of the toys, including chew toys. Hold one play session per day with your dog where you bring out one toy and use it to play with your dog for 10-15 minutes.

If your dog declines to play with you, put the toy away without comment.

Mind Game #10: Daily Chores!

Remind your dog that he works for his living by holding two short daily obedience sessions. For 5-10 minutes in each session, run through all the commands your dog knows or teach him new ones.

These can be combined with hand feeding sessions.

Mind Game #11: A Healthy Mind in a Healthy Body!

Dogs need physical exercise to stay physically and mentally healthy. Make sure your dog is getting 30 minutes of aerobic exercise every other day. Aerobic exercise is any exercise that makes your dog pant steadily. Depending on your dog’s size and fitness level, this can be on lead walking, jogging, road work, treadmill, retrieve games, swimming or pulling.

It’s difficult for many people to walk fast enough to give a medium or large dog aerobic exercise (any dog over about 25 pounds). If on lead walking is the only option, you can increase the ooomph factor by teaching your dog to pull a drag from a nonrestrictive harness. I start small with loops of rope and work up to motorcycle tires (depending on the size and condition of the dog). This has an added advantage for conformation people of building the dog’s rear.

Avoid retrieve games if your dog doesn’t play nicely. Playing nicely means respecting your space when you have possession of the object (in other words, not leaping on you to rip it out of your hands), bringing the object directly back to you and allowing you to take the object out of his mouth.

Make sure your dog is getting a high quality diet with moderate amounts of protein and fat. I believe that a homemade diet based on raw ingredients (meats and veggies) is healthiest for dogs. There are high quality kibbles on the market for those who prefer to feed a commercial diet. Money saved on cheap kibble often gets spent at the vet, so there’s no point in trying to economize with cheap dog food.

Mind Game #12: Rewards From Daily Life!

All dogs have things that they enjoy doing. Earning these daily pleasures can help your dog learn confidence and compliance.

It might include things like going out in the yard, going for a walk, being fed, going for a ride in the car, being groomed, being petted, getting scratched in that spot that is always itchy, etc. Before you let your dog have any of the things on that list, have your dog perform a known command, then reward him with the intended activity. If he refuses to do the behavior, don’t comment, just walk away, wait for five to ten minutes and try again.

Play as many of the Mind Games as you can for at least a month. If your dog’s attitude has improved, slowly start dropping some of the games. I recommend that you keep the first game (No More Kibble From Heaven!) and the last game (Rewards From Daily Life!) for life. You may decide to keep playing more or all of the games. If your dog’s attitude starts to get worse again, re-institute the game you most recently dropped for at least another month.


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## Dryden (Feb 24, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> I love "MIND GAMES" for dogs who are uncertain and feel the need to guard/possess their things and/or their people...


I read your entire post word for word. This is EXACTLY why I posted here. Thank you so much for taking the time to post that. He has hyperthyroidism that he's being medicated for and does not currently show these symptoms. We're going to implement some of these.


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## Dryden (Feb 24, 2012)

In regards to GregK's and Ucdcrush's comments, I appreciate their alternative perspectives. Contrast is good in this situation. It's clear that they do not comprehend (and this is because I haven't fully explained it, not their fault) the extent to which we've worked with Niko. Honestly, it stings to read when someone insinuates that I'm unwilling to work with Niko further, or that I haven't been a good leader; however, as soon as I posted here I checked my ego/pride at the door. I didn't post here for me, I posted here for Niko. If we can make changes in the short run that will put him in a better place behaviorally in the future, even if that future is not with us, we will not hesitate to do so.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Jack's Dad said:


> All I can say is you must not have kids Greg.
> 
> The risk is not worth it IMO.


 
Nope, there's no kids around here.


I have no problem with the other option of returning the dog to the shelter.


I'm just stating the fact that counter condtioning can resolve this 'resource guarding' this dog appears to have.




Dryden said:


> In regards to GregK's and Ucdcrush's comments, I appreciate their alternative perspectives. Contrast is good in this situation. It's clear that they do not comprehend (and this is because I haven't fully explained it, not their fault) the extent to which we've worked with Niko.


Do tell then? I don't see where you worked on counter conditoning?

I was under the impression you were here for ideas on how your could possibly keep this dog. :thinking:


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Jack's Dad said:


> You can say I'm grumpy


 
No, not you.


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## Dryden (Feb 24, 2012)

GregK said:


> Nope, there's no kids around here.
> Do tell then? I don't see where you worked on counter conditoning?
> 
> I was under the impression you were here for ideas on how your could possibly keep this dog. :thinking:


I just read up on desensitization and counter-conditioning. I think we did something similar to this without knowing what it was called. I'm still going to mention it to the trainer b/c perhaps now I have a better understanding of what it is, I can better execute it. 

Because the problem has been when he and I are alone, we practiced having my wife be in the same room, then slowly move closer. If he let her come up to us, she had a treat for him. We would also call him to us when we were sitting together and both pet him in an attempt to desensitize him to her presence near me. In the second scenario, he never showed the signs of potential aggression as he did in the first scenario. Perhaps there's a better way we could attempt to desensitize? We did this for about 2.5 months and got to a point where he no longer showed the signs of aggression for a few weeks. Somehow he must have regressed, perhaps if the technique was working, we stopped too early. Does it sound like we were going about the technique incorrectly? Either way, this is something we started doing again as soon as the latest incident happened.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

A stable dog would not act the way your dog was acting. There is a lot that you could do that would improve his behaviour, but at core, there will still be some trust issues both ways.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

With a new baby on the way, his background behavior, and a supportive rescue who can help to place him in a quiet home with adopters who can continue his training, it seems like that is a good idea. 

Because when he gets older, that child is going to have friends over...you are going to have lots of people in and out...not a good life for anyone. 

Curious - has the remote ever triggered a behavior before?


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## Dryden (Feb 24, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Curious - has the remote ever triggered a behavior before?


Never. The trigger appears to be proximity of others to he and I when he's sitting with me.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> A stable dog would not act the way your dog was acting. There is a lot that you could do that would improve his behaviour, but at core, there will still be some trust issues both ways.


Yes. This.

I agree that his manifestation of guarding behaviors can be improved and if it were just you and his wife then this might be worth working on. 

But, best case scenario, he decides the child is awesome and to be protected.... so, then what if he starts guarding your child from your wife or, dog forbid, a babysitter or grandparent, and won't let her approach? Or what if he starts guarding you from your baby?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Castlemaid said:


> A stable dog would not act the way your dog was acting. There is a lot that you could do that would improve his behaviour, but at core, there will still be some trust issues both ways.


With this I agree. 
I realize you love the dog, but don't let people (here especially) guilt you into keeping him and to keep trying.
If it was just you and your wife I'd say go for it. Where you have a baby on the way I'd lean towards you sending him back sooner than later.
Print off the things you've been doing to give the shelter when you return him, so they know what you've been doing. Mind Games are never a bad idea, and counter-conditioning, but at the end of the day you have an unstable dog and a baby coming. 
Recipe for disaster in my book.
I'd never trust this dog around a newborn baby, or your wife holding, changing or feeding that baby.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

BlackthornGSD said:


> But, best case scenario, he decides the child is awesome and to be protected.... so, then what if he starts guarding your child from your wife or, dog forbid, a babysitter or grandparent, and won't let her approach? Or what if he starts guarding you from your baby?


This is very real. Our first Shepherd very stable and good was watching grandma play with our baby. Grandma would let her crawl away then would pull on her leg to bring her back. The baby was starting to get fussy about being pulled back. Our good doggie sat down right between baby and grandma. She never growled or showed any signs of aggression but she did make it clear that grandma was done playing that game. Shepherds get very attached very quickly to their little humans.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Yes. This.
> 
> I agree that his manifestation of guarding behaviors can be improved and if it were just you and his wife then this might be worth working on.
> 
> But, best case scenario, he decides the child is awesome and to be protected.... so, then what if he starts guarding your child from your wife or, dog forbid, a babysitter or grandparent, and won't let her approach? Or what if he starts guarding you from your baby?


Yup. I think this dog is basically unstable. With good management, unstable dogs can be good pets-- I've owned one for 10 years and love him very much. I wouldn't trade him for anything. We're kind of the ideal home for him because we're a fairly quiet household with two adults and no kids. But you'd better believe I watch him like a hawk when there are kids around Also, whenever we have a party or BBQ or big gathering it's extremely stressful on him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't think there is any shame in admitting you are not the right house for an animal and taking the steps needed to protect not only your own family but that animal. If you wait till someone is hurt, then everyone loses.


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## longhairshepmom (Apr 7, 2003)

How do YOU act when the dog behaves that way ? Even if you tell the dog "no" , "bad dog", what does your body say ? Body language is EVERYTHING to an animal and you cannot fool them. They read us like a book, every breath we take, every twich we make, every shifty eyemovement, how our shoulders move, if we stand up straight, etc. And most of all, they read our ENERGY !! Words don't mean much, its "blahblahblahblah" to a dog, unless its learned commands.

I bet in the beginning you couldn't help but feel flattered that the dog picked you. That you felt YOU were the ONE person that this dog bonded with, loves and will protect with his life. Its only human to feel flattered by this. But by feeling that way you give the dog a million un-intentional signs that it is "ok" by you and that You belong to the dog.

What needs to happen is that the first time you detect ANY KIND of misbehavior or disrespect towards your wife, even if its just a "look" or stiffening of the body (learn to read him, watch his every move, eyes, ears, etc...) YOU need to give that dog a "come to jesus" moment. And I'm not talking about abuse or physical discipline. But the dog needs to be hit by a wave of energy coming from you, a crystall clear displeasure and reprimand. You can jump up or use a growly voice, but it has to be your body and energy that will tell the dog that this is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN< PERIOD !!!! It has to come from you. You will simply NOT allow it, thats all there is to it. Do not secretely be flattered. Be very very clear. After your reprimand make the dog move away from you. Do not hug/hold or pet the dog after this episode. Once the dog is snapped out of his behavoir and has given you all space, go back to being neutral, don't stay angry. 
For now, let your wife do all the pleasant things, like food, water, walks. Have her make him sit before she gives him anything. You can go along on the walks, but she will hold the leash and control the dog. In the house, don't let him sit on furniture, he owns NOTHING in the house, he is a guest. A beloved guest, but one that has to follow the rules. Every time you feel he is possesive of you, send him away. 
If you sit with your wife, send the dog away for now, even if just 2 feet away, don't let him crowd. Gradually, ever so gradually he can earn more trust and freedoms. 
All that said, I agree, you should give him back. Having your first child you'll be glad to find time to shower and go to the bathroom, you'll be sleep deprived and foggy. Some days it will take all your energy just to take care of the infant, much less work/chores, etc etc. 
Its hard to find time for a well behaved dog, but you will certainly not have the time and energy it will take to turn this dog around. Somewhere else and with someone else he can turn into a really nice dog and you'll be doing him a favor by giving him this chance.


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

It's hard to know how the desensitization training was going without seeing it. I think the desensitization part has to come later, after the main problem has been addressed. Again hard to know what's going on exactly, but at the very least he does not respect your wife, and probably sees you as his. Once that core issue has been addressed, then the desensitization follow and would eliminate his past habits of guarding you.

Going right to the desensitization part is treating the symptom and not the problem. He will only play the game according to your rules if there is something in it for him.


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## Dryden (Feb 24, 2012)

After going back and forth considering all the responses in this post and our future, my wife and I decided that Niko would do best in another home. He also snapped at my wife twice since this post. Ever since she was attacked she can't help but feel fear, and we think he could sense this and it just complicated the situation. Tonight we returned him to the rescue. The rescue was extremely supportive as we've been in constant contact with them the whole time while working on Niko's challenges. I never thought I could love a dog as much as I love him. Thanks to your responses, we feel reassured that this is what's best for Niko and us.

I'd like to personally thank each and every person who responded to this thread with your insights. We appreciate it more than we can put into words. This was one of if not the hardest thing we have had to do. We've learned a lot from this and will forever love Niko. Once we are settled with the baby, if we decide to adopt or raise another GSD, you can be certain I'll be back on this forum. This is an amazing and supportive community filled with great advice. Thank you again for all your responses.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dryden said:


> After going back and forth considering all the responses in this post and our future, my wife and I decided that Niko would do best in another home. *He also snapped at my wife twice since this post. Ever since she was attacked she can't help but feel fear,* and we think he could sense this and it just complicated the situation. Tonight we returned him to the rescue. The rescue was extremely supportive as we've been in constant contact with them the whole time while working on Niko's challenges. I never thought I could love a dog as much as I love him. Thanks to your responses, we feel reassured that this is what's best for Niko and us.
> 
> I'd like to personally thank each and every person who responded to this thread with your insights. We appreciate it more than we can put into words. This was one of if not the hardest thing we have had to do. We've learned a lot from this and will forever love Niko. Once we are settled with the baby, if we decide to adopt or raise another GSD, you can be certain I'll be back on this forum. This is an amazing and supportive community filled with great advice. Thank you again for all your responses.


 
A very good decision given the situation! A very tough but the best one - can't have a dog which your wife is actually afraid of. Been there briefly - not good!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Maybe a donation to the rescue might make you feel a little better!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I think you are making the right decision. As cod says, nothing helps ease the brunt of "oh gosh, guess who's coming back" as a nice donation to the rescue taking him back.



> I bet in the beginning you couldn't help but feel flattered that the dog picked you. That you felt YOU were the ONE person that this dog bonded with, loves and will protect with his life. Its only human to feel flattered by this. But by feeling that way you give the dog a million un-intentional signs that it is "ok" by you and that You belong to the dog.


This isn't really a fair assessment, since plenty of dogs do this and never become an unstable statistic. Many GSDs are one-owner dogs and ignore others in the home, and don't wind up biting.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm sorry you have to go through this tough situation. It's so easy to armchair quarterback, but unless one is actually _in_ the position, no one else can know what the right choice is. It sounds like you tried your very best to make the one with the lesser of the evils. Good luck to you and your wife and upcoming baby.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

You did your best! Good luck to the both of you!!


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## longhairshepmom (Apr 7, 2003)

msvette2u said:


> I think you are making the right decision. As cod says, nothing helps ease the brunt of "oh gosh, guess who's coming back" as a nice donation to the rescue taking him back.
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't really a fair assessment, since plenty of dogs do this and never become an unstable statistic. Many GSDs are one-owner dogs and ignore others in the home, and don't wind up biting.


If you only quote the one sentence it could be taken out of context. Obviously I applied it to the cases in which animals (whether dogs, horses, etc) pick one person and show it by aggressively keeping others away from that person. Which also happens, although not "plentiful" Oftentimes in THOSE cases the persons that are picked feel flattered that this animal is ONLY loyal to them to the point of disliking everyone else, sometimes to an extreme. They view the behavior as that animal "protecting" them from everybody, when in all reality this behavior is just resource guarding. The favorite human being the resource.

Most animals have "favorite" persons, I'm quite aware of this, but we were discussing one of the "extremes". 

To the OP, don't feel bad. You did the right thing. You loved this dog and showed it by giving him the chance to become a better dog, while keeping you and your wife and unborn child safe. There will be another dog for you


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