# DDR breeders (export)



## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

Hi,

I'm looking to purchase a pup or young adult next year. I'm interested in the DDR lines but here in the UK they are mixed with Czech or WGWL.

Been in touch with a breeder in Germany but waiting to see what they are planning for next year. 

Any one know of good breeders that export to the UK?

Thanks.

Gwyllgi.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

It's likely a good thing that they are mixed for the sake of preventing a genetic bottleneck. Is there a specific reason that your dog has to be predominantly DDR? I'm not sure there are many breeders other than a handful left who specialize in just the DDR line. Also, most dogs imported out of Germany tend to be the "undesirables" unless you have some solid connections.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I can't give any recommendations for the UK, but I'm wondering what it is about the DDR lines that you are wanting? Everybody that I have ever come across on the forum 
Looking for 100% DDR" dogs came to the conclusion that they needed/wanted a pure DDR dog from reading stuff on the internet. 

If you are looking for a serious working dog that will do civil protection work, you can find that in the working lines, bothe West German, Czech, and various mixes thereof. 

Since the wall came down 30 years ago, you'd be hard press to still find pure lines.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

In for response from OP, when I first looked into GSDs I thought I wanted a DDR dog as well. Then I figured out they trend toward, sharp, overly aggressive, lower pack drive, and mature at a glacial pace. In their pure form they strayed too far from the balanced ideal of Cpt. Stephanitz for my tastes. 

If you're looking for a good working dog, a balanced mix of DDR, Czech and West German lines as well is probably your best bet. 

Which spoiler alert OP, unless you invent a time machine thats what you're going to get anyways.


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

Hi,
Thank you for the replies.

Why DDR? From what I have heard is that the have a balance of drives.
I have been told that the Czech and WGWL have very high drives.

I looking for a dog that will be suitable for family protection, I would also like to do tracking and have him/her trained in detection. 
I had thought of IPO but clubs are quite a diatance away.

Yes, I know the DDR are few but they are out there. I realise that there are not many lines.

I have been in contact with vom parchimer land but looking for other breeders. 

This will not be my first GSD, I have over 30 yrs experience of the breed but this will be my first working line.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

Any line has a variance in drive and balance. My pup is a Czech girl, but she's only moderate drive and is 5 months old. A good breeder would let you know if they produce or will produce a dog you're looking for, regardless of which line they derive from. 

Not all DDR dogs would be good at PP, for example. Don't limit yourself by what you've read. I recommend actually going and seeing some dogs work and asking about them.


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

That's good to know that not all Czech are high drive.
Yes that is good advice about going to see the dogs and speaking to people.
Not many here with Czech, no DDR, mainly WGWL or WGSL and ESL.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Gwyllgi said:


> Hi,
> Thank you for the replies.
> 
> Why DDR? From what I have heard is that the have a balance of drives.
> ...




Having had a female of about 85% DDR - I can truthfully say I totally disagree!!!! Yes - there are breeders in Europe who have perserved the DDR lines....and the temperaments can be very very very hard to deal with in many ways. I would not advise anyone to get one for sport for sure....and if someone is locked in, to be prepared for alot of frustration when the pup has it's own agenda.

I like certain aspects related to the DDR character, and my dogs carry DDR lines, but tempered with other European lines.

Lee


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

@wolfstraum, do you mind giving your take on DDR lines. There seems to be a lot of differing opinions on DDR. 
Having experience I'm interested in your description of common traits that you may have noticed.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

cdwoodcox said:


> @wolfstraum, do you mind giving your take on DDR lines. There seems to be a lot of differing opinions on DDR.
> Having experience I'm interested in your description of common traits that you may have noticed.


The positives that I saw and continue to see even several generations out - 

Tracking talent and ability - I hate training tracking, and the dogs I have do it well.....I do the minimal training yet the dogs have done ok to well with far less training than most....when people work to develop them, both in SAR and IPO styles, they are very successful

Hunt drive - separate from but related to tracking....strong in these genetics

Power - active aggression/protectiveness - why people always say they want a DDR dog for "home protection"...the DDR dogs do not have the play/prey/toy extreme drives ....they have a more serious temperament.

The strength, the great tracking ability in my dogs - I attribute this to the DDR influence!

The negatives - the same as positives in some respects, but from a different perspective!

The lack to lower prey/toy drive makes it much harder to train with a reward system such is common in training methods being used today.

There seems to be a lack of biddablity in the lines...the dogs are not so in tune and malleable....they do not have interaction with the handler as high a priority as the high prey dogs.....their obedience is going to be much flatter and less happy, they will do their job, but they are not going to have a party while doing it. Thus all the failures and washouts and bad mouthing the sire - never mind that the breeding pairs just were not always well chosen...the male was available to service any female whose owner had cash in hand and so so so many did.

They are just more challenging to train - especially for sport. They don't fit into the mold needed for current thinking in training.

The aggression/power are NOT rewarded in sport by points as the high energy dogs coming out of prey aggression....the DDR dog is more serious. Some dogs used from the same line ended up being far far too serious to keep breeding even with the demand for those pretty black sable pets....not just here from him, but in Germany as well where a certain breeding pair were quickly prohibited from being bred....also hips and elbows could be risky.

That being said, my DDR girl came via a female from a breeder (couple) in MD who are/were police officers, K9 handlers and and used the lines successfully for generations for producing LE and SAR K9s. The line I had was NOT popular for sport, used alot and discarded and disregarded and scorned by sport people (who saw many failures and washouts from the sire - my own female was spoken of dismissively based on the sire by people who never laid eyes on her for example)....BUT the female I had was praised and even coveted by every LE AND sport person who worked her....she was NOT the typical daughter of her sire, but a very strong blend of some DDR based Belgian dogs with the full DDR sire....she was 2-5,5 on Lord, and his influence was extremely strong....even 4 generations from that female, I have the same talents and character in the majority of what I produce. 

I strongly advise people NOT to get a straight DDR bred dog.....the traits they have are not easy to deal with, and at this point, not valued or understood by most people who would help the buyer in training. A dog with partial DDR genetics, bred carefully with other regions' types, can be an awesome all around dog.

Lee


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Lee, thanks for that explanation. I had wondered of the "type" you breed and this explains it. Do your dogs retain the civil/active aggression you spoke of? How is their food drive? What I take away from your post is that your dogs have the seriousness of the DDR, with the "ease" of training associated with some other lines. They have higher prey/play drive than full DDR making them easier to train, but not such that would make them hyper ball dogs that go insane if they don't 5 hrs of play. 

Been checking your site, haven't seen any new dogs, litters, etc. Where would I find pictures of some of your newer breedings and/or dogs that you have? 

Thanks


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Gwyllgi said:


> That's good to know that not all Czech are high drive.
> Yes that is good advice about going to see the dogs and speaking to people.
> Not many here with Czech, no DDR, mainly WGWL or WGSL and ESL.


Femfa's is probably the best advise, even though you've had shepherds, all the descriptions about drives etc,, are all relative to what you are going to think of them as far as what you'll want to live with and enjoy. There's probably more dogs then you'd realize with some Czech in their pedigree. Here's a trainer in the UK with a few videos worth watching:
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBankhouse/featured


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

eddie1976E said:


> Lee, thanks for that explanation. I had wondered of the "type" you breed and this explains it. Do your dogs retain the civil/active aggression you spoke of? How is their food drive? What I take away from your post is that your dogs have the seriousness of the DDR, with the "ease" of training associated with some other lines. They have higher prey/play drive than full DDR making them easier to train, but not such that would make them hyper ball dogs that go insane if they don't 5 hrs of play.
> 
> Been checking your site, haven't seen any new dogs, litters, etc. Where would I find pictures of some of your newer breedings and/or dogs that you have?
> 
> Thanks



I did explain myself well enough then!!!! oh geez - no way do I need to play for 5 hours with a ball with any dog!!! They have off switches and do well in the house no matter how much or how little exercise they get.

As far as the website - it was done by a friend when I worked in a software startup company and it is done in a software I don't have - it is on my 'to do" list to update - but I do need technological help! so it has been on a back burner....

The newer litters - N and O have owners here.....and a few K pups have member-owners....I have a K female bred to a male who is a working detection dog - he has my female lines bottom (bred by mnm - Marsha Seck) and is Czech via Art z Lipin on top.....nice nice nice dog.....stable as they come, great drives, but my type of temperament for everyday life too.....one of the O pups went to his owner after washing out a couple other pups as well...the P's are due next week....at least one male will be going to a board member who has been waiting over a year for a pup for IPO.

My own O puppy - Occult aka Wicked - has insane food drive....just starting to see toy drive....real prey - ie small animals - she LOVES the cats....she is amazed and happy when they will interact wtih her, but barks when they hold themselves away...this was a line breeding on Xito Maineiche, and a long time in the production....she has a good alert bark when in the yard on people moving about the streets and also is fairly aloof - picks and chooses who she will make up with....also can be from the DDR influence.

I orginally got that desire to engage and play drive by bringing the DDR female to Xito Maineiche - who was all WGR.....my old female is the last of that litter, the last Xito Maineiche daughter alive....she will be 14 in a month and I know we are on borrowed time....this dog rarely needed a collar correction, never had an e-collar on in her life, she wanted to be my partner.....I have tried to keep that along with all the strengths of the DDR lines she got from her dam.....it is scary to keep going on in generations because I do not want to lose any of these positives. My other female family has been very sucessful competitively, and complements and compensates this one well...my goals over the last years have been to be able to merge them.


Lee


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

eddie1976E said:


> Lee, thanks for that explanation. I had wondered of the "type" you breed and this explains it. Do your dogs retain the civil/active aggression you spoke of? How is their food drive? What I take away from your post is that your dogs have the seriousness of the DDR, with the "ease" of training associated with some other lines. They have higher prey/play drive than full DDR making them easier to train, but not such that would make them hyper ball dogs that go insane if they don't 5 hrs of play.
> 
> Been checking your site, haven't seen any new dogs, litters, etc. Where would I find pictures of some of your newer breedings and/or dogs that you have?
> 
> Thanks


I have a pup from Lee's N litter and what she is saying very well describes my dog and the other Wolfstraum dogs I've trained with, we train with her full sister and also her uncle. My female has very nice food drive but ball drive is much higher. Could play fetch all day long but doesnt have to, perfect off switch. She is my first working line and is very easy to train, got her BH at about 17 months old, is extremely biddable, almost to a fault. Very handler sensitive but I believe a lot of this comes from her father's side who is all Czech. Obedience is nice and correct but not as flashy as some other dogs. Loves to fight the helper and is starting to show a lot of seriousness and suspicion as she matures. Outside of training she is very social and trustworthy, all around a very easy dog to live with and a joy to learn and train with. 

Her website is not updated often, you might want to check out her Facebook for more up to date info and pics


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

astrovan2487 said:


> Her website is not updated often, you might want to check out her Facebook for more up to date info and pics



Thanks for the info....I shun social media, so no facebook account. Must be the only one in the world without an account. And, its going to stay that way. :grin2:


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Thanks for that description @wolfstraum. I would love to check out your Facebook page and see your dogs. Is there a link somewhere for that.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

eddie1976E said:


> Thanks for the info....I shun social media, so no facebook account. Must be the only one in the world without an account. And, its going to stay that way. :grin2:


+1 more.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

eddie1976E said:


> Lee, thanks for that explanation. I had wondered of the "type" you breed and this explains it. Do your dogs retain the civil/active aggression you spoke of? How is their food drive? What I take away from your post is that your dogs have the seriousness of the DDR, with the "ease" of training associated with some other lines. They have higher prey/play drive than full DDR making them easier to train, but not such that would make them hyper ball dogs that go insane if they don't 5 hrs of play.
> 
> Been checking your site, haven't seen any new dogs, litters, etc. Where would I find pictures of some of your newer breedings and/or dogs that you have?
> 
> Thanks


I have Omen from Lee's 'O' litter, and can pretty much confirmed what she and others have said about her dogs. Omen's drives seem pretty well on par with how Lee described her female, Occult (Wicked). Crazy food drive and pack drive, excellent prey drive (he's obsessed with his flirt pole, but thankfully is friendly with our cats, lol), his ball drive is coming on more as he grows up. Great confidence, and very much focused on 'his people', happily ignoring others unless they are interacting with us. Great off switch in the house even at 4 months old, and about the easiest dog I've ever trained.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

eddie1976E said:


> Thanks for the info....I shun social media, so no facebook account. Must be the only one in the world without an account. And, its going to stay that way. :grin2:


well the couple of posters here who cite having my dogs have photos up....the database and the OFA database have pedigrees and records....so some of the dogs can be seen here

Lee


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

Thank you all for the replies.

I am in no rush to acquire another GSD, I am waiting a year or more to learn more about the working lines as I do not want to make a mistake and get one that will not be suitable.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

Gwyllgi said:


> Thank you all for the replies.
> 
> I am in no rush to acquire another GSD, I am waiting a year or more to learn more about the working lines as I do not want to make a mistake and get one that will not be suitable.


The best part about purchasing from an ethical and reputable breeder is that they wouldn't give you an unsuitable dog. It benefits no one. So definitely continue to take your time and feel out the type of dog you're looking for, and be honest with yourself about what you want out of the dog (casual obedience training, competitive obedience, titling the dog with a BH only, pursuing other dog sports, active family pet, etc). They know what their dogs produce and what to expect in a litter, and within the litter will choose the right dog for your needs. If one isn't produced that fits you, then you wait for the next litter. I'm pretty sure wolfstraum had someone wait nearly two years for the right dog from her. Neither compromised.


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