# Flirt Pole Fun



## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

I finally got a flirt pole a few days ago and I can't believe I never got one sooner. I've made similar toys before from PVC pipe and some string back when I was a kid, but I never knew there was a name for it.

Sutter Cain LOVES his!! It's hard to get good pictures because from the moment I release him from his hold (I make him sit and wait until I say "Ok, get it"), he goes right into MURDERDEATHKILL mode until he catches the lure, then he instantly relaxes to chew on/play with it. We both love this thing.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

Rabidwolfie said:


> (I make him sit and wait until I say "Ok, get it")


* reizangel* (_aka "flirtpole"_) is largely misunderstood in this country

it's all about _very crisp _obedience 

plus a really good outlet/exercise for limited space


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## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

Forgive me, but I don't understand your comment. Was I doing something incorrectly?


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

sorry, no, not at all? sounds to me like you're doing it right!


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## Rob_Drifter (Apr 11, 2021)

Rabidwolfie said:


> I finally got a flirt pole a few days ago and I can't believe I never got one sooner. I've made similar toys before from PVC pipe and some string back when I was a kid, but I never knew there was a name for it.
> 
> Sutter Cain LOVES his!! It's hard to get good pictures because from the moment I release him from his hold (I make him sit and wait until I say "Ok, get it"), he goes right into MURDERDEATHKILL mode until he catches the lure, then he instantly relaxes to chew on/play with it. We both love this thing.


I know exactly what you mean!! Annie LOVES the flirt pole so much she is like a prey monkey for it. I'll make sure she does "Sit, Stay, GET IT, Down, and Drop" while we're "playing."

Her obedience has shot through the roof since I started doing this. She is better behaved, more worn out, and satisfied after playing with it. I am glad I got one. The only thing I am VERY careful with is making sure she isn't running/jumping too hard and giving her plenty of rest in between since she is still a pup.


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## Cat Mom Adopts German Boy (Jan 4, 2021)

Any recommendations for a sturdy flirt pole? Also are they meant to chew on it or catch and release kind of thing? My boy most definitely needs one!


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## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

I personally didn't do a ton of research (unlike literally EVERY OTHER thing I've gotten for my baby thus far) but I bought a cheap Outward Hound pole off of Amazon. I like Outward Hound in general since the things of theirs I've gotten tend to hold up to my level of usage.

His pole certainly feels nice and sturdy. The pole has plenty of give and the nylon cord is one solid piece instead of something that screws together (that seems much less durable to me but I could be wrong)

In my case I let him chew on it a bit when he catches it, since he loves the squeaker, but if he gets too rough I make him drop it. Usually he just chews a few times and then let's go so I can snatch it away and make him chase again. After a few minutes he's gotten the bulk of his puppy energy out. Another benefit is that I live out in the woods, on the end of a dead end dirt road, so my neighbor & I tend to share a yard. Both of our dogs just consider it one big yard. My neighbor recently got chickens and my pup had been harassing them.

After a few days of redirecting to his flirt pole, the chickens are becoming less and less appealing.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

They are life savers for active dogs but very easy to overdo, be especially careful with the mid air twisting and turning if you flip it over the head, and triple careful for young pups to just let them trail it.

...you don't need to buy a flirt pole....make your own with a dollar store stuffy on the end


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## Rob_Drifter (Apr 11, 2021)

Cat Mom Adopts German Boy said:


> Any recommendations for a sturdy flirt pole? Also are they meant to chew on it or catch and release kind of thing? My boy most definitely needs one!


I forget what kind it was (bought it on Amazon) but I made sure it had good reviews. However, I use it as "catch and release" tool because she loves it so much she'll drop it just to play again! I've noticed that she surrenders undesirable objects more readily (kids toys, Glade plug-ins) now that she is in the habit of being rewarded to "drop". She also understands "stay" now which is VERY helpful. Overall it's a win/win!!


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

I don't want to say too much about it because I can't hardly train my way out of a wet paper bag, and there's some _profoundly gifted trainers_ hereabouts, so I'll defer to them. But I will say the word "flirtpole" is kind of a grey area, may overlap in certain contexts with some fairly unsavory trainers... whereas "reizangel" is 100% orthodox tried and true *pure* german method 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=reizangel

hope I don't get spanked for sayin' so, but sorting through youtube results, dare I say women appear to be better reizangel trainers than men?


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

Back when my dad used to train dogs for a friend that is a breeder, we made our own with a lunge whip and a toy tied to the end. Didn’t know what it was called to I called it the fox hunt as the toy was a fox. It was great for playing with dogs and very entertaining for little me.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

WNGD said:


> They are life savers for active dogs but very easy to overdo, be especially careful with the mid air twisting and turning if you flip it over the head, and triple careful for young pups to just let them trail it.
> 
> ...you don't need to buy a flirt pole....make your own with a dollar store stuffy on the end


And be careful if they start cheating by cutting through, learned that the hard way.


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## doubleroll (Jul 5, 2011)

Cat Mom Adopts German Boy said:


> Any recommendations for a sturdy flirt pole? Also are they meant to chew on it or catch and release kind of thing? My boy most definitely needs one!


We purchased a Squishy Face flirt pole from Amazon, made in USA i think. Our girl loves it and actually seeks it out…I just don’t let her do lots of jumping or twisting since she’s only 10 months old but its a great tool used correctly.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Deja would be so injury-prone with a flirt pole; too crazy prey drive. Bo is Ok with it as he has good body awareness


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

you have to be *careful* because they will throw caution to the wind. It's fun so it's really easy to loose track of time. Rather than wear them down, I usually call the game as soon as I see a dog begin to slow.



Rob_Drifter said:


> I use it as "catch and release" tool because she loves it so much she'll drop it just to play again!


that's the kind I like. It's all about obedience. Once you have extra crispy sits/downs/outs firmly established, you can work up some considerable bite with taller/stronger poles and bigger lures... if desired


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## Rob_Drifter (Apr 11, 2021)

berno von der seeweise said:


> you have to be *careful* because they will throw caution to the wind. It's fun so it's really easy to loose track of time. Rather than wear them down, I usually call the game as soon as I see a dog begin to slow.
> 
> 
> 
> that's the kind I like. It's all about obedience. Once you have extra crispy sits/downs/outs firmly established, you can work up some considerable bite with taller/stronger poles and bigger lures... if desired


Yup! If I can make it so obedience is "fun" that's good for me  

I also agree with you on making sure the pup isn't so worn out that she isn't ignoring commands and getting "loose" with the commands! It takes practice, that's for sure.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Obviously insane! Good photo though...


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

wolfy dog said:


> Deja would be so injury-prone with a flirt pole; too crazy prey drive. Bo is Ok with it as he has good body awareness


Rogan has crazy prey drive, just don't "flip it" when you circle back


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

When Gus was about 2-3yrs old, my son came across the flirt pole and thought it was a dog toy. Took it outside to “play” with Gus. It didn’t work out well, he panicked and tried to raise it above his head. The toy on the end was lined up perfectly with my sons nipple. He’s lucky he still has a nipple, he’s never touched it since.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

Saphire said:


> When Gus was about 2-3yrs old, my son came across the flirt pole and thought it was a dog toy. Took it outside to “play” with Gus. It didn’t work out well, he panicked and tried to raise it above his head. The toy on the end was lined up perfectly with my sons nipple. He’s lucky he still has a nipple, he’s never touched it since.


2 yrs old?

gus is mighty lucky uncle berno wasn't there... prolly would have been the last mistake he ever made... dog should be on autosit the moment a flirtpole appears


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## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

Sutter Cain has an INSANELY high prey drive, but no real follow through. He's caught and killed several squirrels now, which I'm actually ok with, but when he chases the cats, all he does it annoy them if he catches them. It's all about the chase.
Same with deer, turkies (got a lot of wild turkies around here) and the occasional wild hog. All chase, no real follow through. Which I'm also fine with, honestly. He sits, downs, releases and chases his flirt pole just as he's supposed to, but if I somehow accidentally got in the way, I don't think he would seriously injure me in any way besides a mild bruise.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

berno von der seeweise said:


> 2 yrs old?
> 
> gus is mighty lucky uncle berno wasn't there... prolly would have been the last mistake he ever made... dog should be on autosit the moment a flirtpole appears


If it was something I had done regularly with, I’d agree. I had stopped using it at about 10 months old. Was something he didn’t need.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

It has been brought to my attention that my post was suggestive of my dog biting a child. To be clear, my son was 19 years old 6’1” 200lbs. He didn’t know how to use the flirt pole thus Gus had zero direction and simply tried to grab the toy that was hung high into the air at nipple level. I don’t blame the dog for this.
For those who may be concerned, Gus does not run around biting children.
My intent was to point out that flirt poles are not toys and need to be used properly.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

berno von der seeweise said:


> 2 yrs old?
> 
> gus is mighty lucky uncle berno wasn't there... prolly would have been the last mistake he ever made... dog should be on autosit the moment a flirtpole appears


Let me get this right. Because you left a tool out and someone who didn’t know how to use it got ahold of of it and got bite, you would kill the dog?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

berno von der seeweise said:


> 2 yrs old?
> 
> gus is mighty lucky uncle berno wasn't there... prolly would have been the last mistake he ever made... dog should be on autosit the moment a flirtpole appears


You aren't an uncle of Gus, and you don't really understand, nor do you have any reference for the situation.

You are out of your realm of experience and you should just not suggest killing dogs.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

dog is @ the very bottom of the food chain on my place and they know it










"kid accident" here on my spread results in immediate dismissal. No exceptions. Case closed.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

This forum is for those of us who love and respect our dogs. If I just read what I think I read, it doesn‘t belong here and neither does the poster. I hope I’m wrong.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

berno von der seeweise said:


> dog is @ the very bottom of the food chain on my place and they know it
> 
> View attachment 574161
> 
> ...


You are the type of person that shouldn’t have working dogs. You shouldn’t have the dogs you have now. You shouldn’t have any dog ever. You’re advocating keeping dogs you can handle can killing them for your mistakes. Let’s keep in mind you’re the guy with a mutt breeding program. Let’s not talk about where most of these dogs have gone. You’re also the guy without a clue how to do protection training who insists on doing on your own without even listening to any advice you’ve been given. I’d put your in the ground fit the assertion you’ll kill my dog. I want anyone here to explain to me why you’re even allowed to post here. You’ve never offers anything to any thread here.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Berno any more posts from you about culling ,killing or abuse will be considered deliberately baiting and inciting outraged responses.Enough already.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

To get this thread away from the nastiness and back on track, here's a video of Eska playing with her breeder. She was 9 weeks old at the time. Notice what she does at the end of the session! 🥰

I didn't see this video until several years after Eska came to live with me, but it certainly would have sold me on her temperament and working ability if I had. (And she was SO darn cute!)

The yelping you hear is the other pups in the litter anticipating their turn.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

I’m just gonna have to insist we leave gus out of this henceforth. Saphire’s original comments were ambiguous. Enough said. Frankly I don’t care what anybody thinks about me, and this isn’t about me bein’ right.

This is about discernment. In order to get discernment, you have to breed discernment. If you breed lack of discernment, you’re gonna get lack of discernment. Case closed.

It’s also about eastern european “working lines” and their propensity toward sharp/shy temperament. I have nothing whatsoever against schutzhund saturdays with a slovak import at the club, but that’s the last thing I need around here. Anybody believes that’s what every gsd is “supposed to be” is delusional. Case closed.

The founders were in the sheep business. Their livelihoods weren’t based upon selling dogs. The dogs were only “equipment.” Tools of the trade, if you will. They made their livings from wool, and I assure you any dog that created a negative impact upon that bottom line was deemed unsuitable.

Female sheep (ewe) give birth to 2 offspring (lamb) but they only make enough milk to feed one. Furthermore sheep don’t “browse” a diet of brush and noxious weeds. Sheep “graze” on a diet of grasses and forbs. Consequently wool producers have always kept goats 1.) for milk enough to raise double the lambs and 2.) to consume brush and noxious weeds on behalf of the sheep (“pasture management”). So the relationships between sheep/goat/dog have been “symbiotic” since long before written history.










I’ve been raising thoroughbred swiss milk goats on this site for 20 yrs, but the gsd has only been here for 14 months. So far he earns his keep, but I’m steadfastly unapologetic about the fact that I refuse to make excuses for any dog proves less than “100% kidproof” here, ever. If you don’t like that, too bad for you. No offense intended.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Berno, if you've never had a pup or young dog accidentally bite you when it was after a toy, and accidentally nailed your hand or other body part instead, you haven't been around German shepherds long enough! There are hundreds of threads on this board about 'how do I stop my puppy from biting?'

According to Manfred Heyne, the traditional test used to assess a pup for sheep herding was to put the pup in with an appropriately sized lamb. The pup was expected to grab hold of the lamb, and keep a firm grip on it, without harming it. Of course, the lamb has a nice thick coat of wool to protect it - humans do not!

So, my point is the breed is GENETICALLY inclined to bite.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

well I'm afraid I'll just have to differ with manfred heyne

of course the breed is genetically programmed to bite. If it weren't, I wouldn't feed one. 

but anybody imprints pups to bite lambs is an idiot. Case closed.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Berno, that just shows you know absolutely nothing about HGH herding!

Here is the discussion with Manfred Heyne on the Leerburg site. This man was an honest-to-goodness old style German shepherd, with multiple HGH winners. Since he started breeding dogs, in 1954, he has only bred his own males that have herding championships. They also must be koered, which means they have to pass the courage test in bitework.



> ADDITION 1:
> I would also like to add something about Manfred's breeding credentials which I think is important in view of this discussion. Manfred is one of the top breeders of Merino Landschaf sheep in Germany (bred for wool, meat, lamb production and heartiness in all weather/seasons). He has bred them for breed and show as long as he has bred GSDs for herding. Manfred is the only man to ever win EVERY class in a single show for his breed for both male and female and for the group classes at the DLG, which is held once every 2 years in Germany and is the biggest and most important agricultural show in Germany.
> 
> The reason I mention this is to let you know that Manfred is very well versed in breeding for "form" and physical attributes in sheep as well as for working ability in dogs -- and he has consistently bred the BEST in both areas.





Leerburg | Discussion with Manfred Heyne


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Another article from the Leerburg site:



> It is not easy for one or two dogs to control a large flock of sheep. In Germany the flocks I watched averaged between 300 and 800 sheep. The dogs are expected to keep these sheep out of vegetable gardens and fields of fresh plants as the flock passes by or grazes next door. This is a difficult thing to do if the sheep have had nothing to eat all night or if they have been eating dry stubble for the past two hours. The dog's only means of maintaining control is through gripping or biting the sheep.
> 
> This gripping is what some people are complaining about. What they don't understand is just how stubborn sheep can be and that the shepherd is going to have to pay for the damage his flock causes if it gets into a field that it is not supposed to be in. It doesn't take long for 300 sheep to do a great deal of damage.
> 
> ...


 Leerburg | American Controversy over German Sheep Herding "The HGH"


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

I don't care who he is

anybody tells you pups should "firm grip lambs" is an idiot

case closed


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

pups should sit crisp on command, firm grip flirtpoles on command, and crisp out on command


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

berno von der seeweise said:


> I don't care who he is
> 
> anybody tells you pups should "firm grip lambs" is an idiot
> 
> case closed


Read the second article - it's how HGH herding is done! And no, it's NOT just Heyne who does it that way! Ever heard of Karl Fuller??

FFS, EDUCATE YOURSELF about this HERDING BREED!! 









A Conversation with Karl Fuller About His HGH German Shepherds


In October of 1988 I spent a week in Germany filming a video on training Sheep Herding dogs with Karl and Marion Fuller (Kirschental Kennels).




leerburg.com







> Karl is ONE OF if not THE premier German shepherd breeder in the world. Over the years he has produced 6 VA dogs, won the HGH championship 8 times with 7 different dogs and has produced 2 males that sired bundessiegers. No one has ever done this.
> 
> In an effort to try and understand his method of breeding, we spent a lot of time talking about his bloodlines and how he has accomplished what he has. *Karl is a full time shepherd. He spends his days in the fields with his 800 sheep and his dogs.* It's not unusually to move the flock into a field and leave it this for over and hour before moving on to other pasture - so there is a lot of time to study your dogs movement and drive - if that's where your interest lies.
> 
> Karl has been breeding shepherds since the 1950's. His formula, from the beginning, on selecting breeding partners has been to choose good working blood and cross it with the type of confirmation dog he likes.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

none of these people are in the wool business. they're all in the gsd herdingsport business

pups that "firm grip" lambs in the wool business were never held in high esteem, I assure you


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## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

Goodness. Really stepped on the anthill here, didn't we. I just wanted to share a bit of fun about my pup enjoying himself. Didn't mean to begin a war. LOL


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

berno von der seeweise said:


> none of these people are in the wool business. they're all in the gsd business
> 
> pups that "firm grip" lambs in the wool business were never held in high esteem, I assure you


Berno, you obviously HAVE NOT READ the links!

Let me make it easier for you by removing the quotes:

Karl is ONE OF if not THE premier German shepherd breeder in the world. Over the years he has produced 6 VA dogs, won the HGH championship 8 times with 7 different dogs and has produced 2 males that sired bundessiegers. No one has ever done this.

In an effort to try and understand his method of breeding, we spent a lot of time talking about his bloodlines and how he has accomplished what he has. *Karl is a full time shepherd. He spends his days in the fields with his 800 sheep and his dogs.* It's not unusually to move the flock into a field and leave it this for over and hour before moving on to other pasture - so there is a lot of time to study your dogs movement and drive - if that's where your interest lies. 

Re: Mafred: 

I would also like to add something about Manfred's breeding credentials which I think is important in view of this discussion. Manfred is one of the top breeders of Merino Landschaf sheep in Germany (bred for wool, meat, lamb production and heartiness in all weather/seasons). He has bred them for breed and show as long as he has bred GSDs for herding. *Manfred is the only man to ever win EVERY class in a single show for his breed for both male and female and for the group classes at the DLG, which is held once every 2 years in Germany and is the biggest and most important agricultural show in Germany.*


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

anybody says "pups should firm grip lambs" is wrong

case closed


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

folks, we all know I got _the bitenest dawgs _this forums ever seen  and I'm tellin' ya...


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

(image thanks to google)


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## binBanned (Oct 6, 2020)

berno von der seeweise said:


> folks, we all know I'm the biggest idiot this forums ever seen  and I'm tellin' ya...


true


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

View attachment 573894


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Agreed!
More about gripping:

This gripping is what some people are complaining about. What they don't understand is just how stubborn sheep can be and that the shepherd is going to have to pay for the damage his flock causes if it gets into a field that it is not supposed to be in. It doesn't take long for 300 sheep to do a great deal of damage.

The dogs are trained to only bite the wooly part of a sheep's body. They get strong corrections for biting legs or heads and for shaking their head when they bite. I just finished producing a training video with Karl Fuller in Germany. Karl has won the HGH National competition 7 times. In all the time I spent in the fields with Karl and his dog's, I never saw a dog seriously hurt a sheep.

A dog that isn't allowed to grip properly - is like a policemen without weapons or arresting power. He has no authority and no one is going to listen to him. *A perfect example of this was seen during the production of my training tape. I saw American dogs that had been discouraged from gripping. The handlers of these dogs had a great deal of trouble controlling the flock. When those dogs were replaced with ones that gripped properly, the sheep had a dramatic turnaround and began to stay within the boundaries.*


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

flirtpole stick is 7 feet long. When I brace the butt against the sole of my boot it creates a springpole effect. He's swinging near a foot off the ground and holding fast. I am pleasantly surprised by his progress.








ouch!


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

berno von der seeweise said:


> I’m just gonna have to insist we leave gus out of this henceforth. Saphire’s original comments were ambiguous. Enough said. Frankly I don’t care what anybody thinks about me, and this isn’t about me bein’ right.
> 
> This is about discernment. In order to get discernment, you have to breed discernment. If you breed lack of discernment, you’re gonna get lack of discernment. Case closed.
> 
> ...


There wasn’t anything ambiguous about her post. Anyone could see there was an accidental nip, graze or whatever. You made it what you wanted to. Nothing there suggested the dog tried to take her son down. It’s not about you being right. It’s about you being wrong, very wrong. If you are worried about a kid getting accidentally bitten while playing, train your dog and teach your kid. Or you know, don’t get a dog. You don’t make a excuses for your dog not being “kid proof,” just you not knowing how to train him.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Rabidwolfie said:


> Goodness. Really stepped on the anthill here, didn't we. I just wanted to share a bit of fun about my pup enjoying himself. Didn't mean to begin a war. LOL


I don’t mean to take your thread a different direction, but there’s something that needs to be addressed.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> There wasn’t anything ambiguous about her post. Anyone could see there was an accidental nip, graze or whatever.


leave her out of it



somebody said:


> He’s lucky he still has a nipple


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

berno von der seeweise said:


> leave her out of it


LOL umm ok.

He is lucky he still has a nipple. Frustrated dog, panicked kid (he will always be my kid regardless of age), lure hanging against nipple, I get it. Still not the dogs fault. My fault for not pointing out what the flirt pole is and to not touch it. Maybe I’m the crazy one for thinking the situation was understandable under the circumstances. LOL


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

only you can make that call, and you certainly don't owe me or anyone else an explanation

I wholeheartedly apologize if I took it out of context/blew it out of proportion


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

berno von der seeweise said:


> only you can make that call, and you certainly don't owe me or anyone else an explanation
> 
> I wholeheartedly apologize if I took it out of context/blew it out of proportion


I think the bigger issue is that you’d have killed the dog in a similar situation. I don’t care what your opinion of Gus is, I know he’s an incredible dog.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

I never said he wasn't, and I know better than to argue with a Canadian

You win. I surrender.


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## Shepherdluvr (Oct 11, 2020)

Saphire said:


> I think the bigger issue is that you’d have killed the dog in a similar situation. I don’t care what your opinion of Gus is, I know he’s an incredible dog.


Ask him about his handler aggressive dog he dumped because of inept handling and thus his preference for breeding VPAT #4 dogs. In other words, he admits he breeds and selects for for pets LOL


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

I know better than to argue w/ sockpuppets as well

no further comment. Have fun


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

_Last Warning Berno ....._


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

berno von der seeweise said:


> This is about discernment. In order to get discernment, you have to breed discernment. If you breed lack of discernment, you’re gonna get lack of discernment. Case closed.


In order to breed discernment, you need to know lineage.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Saphire said:


> I think the bigger issue is that you’d have killed the dog in a similar situation. I don’t care what your opinion of Gus is, I know he’s an incredible dog.


And handsome to boot! The whole package, right there.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> And handsome to boot! The whole package, right there.


Why would you boot a handsome dog?


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## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Why would you boot a handsome dog?


Why, to protect his paws, of course.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Rabidwolfie said:


> Why, to protect his paws, of course.


Bahahahahahah


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Saphire said:


> Bahahahahahah


I’ve hit these hilarious images of Gus now. Him wearing booties while hiding in a corner from a schipperke.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Bearshandler said:


> I’ve hit these hilarious images of Gus now. Him wearing booties while hiding in a corner from a schipperke.


Well he doesn’t hide exactly but he certainly gets away from Katie when she gives the look 🤣


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

LOL!

Friends of ours had a little black furry mutt named Muffy. I'm pretty sure Muffy had a lot of terrier in him, because he hat attitude with a capital 'A'.

The GSD we had at the time wasn't aggressive but definitely liked to be top dog. You could see her testing other dogs when she met them, even if they were bigger than she was.

Our friends invited us on a cruise on the 35 ft. sailboat. Tasha set foot on the deck, and Muffy came rushing up to her yapping a warning. Tasha paused with one foot in the air, then went off into the far corner of the deck. She stayed as far away from Muffy as she could for the rest of the two days we were on the boat! 🤣


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## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

After reading this thread with a bucket of popcorn and thinking that a bottle of Xanax would have been more appropriate given how quickly something innocent escalated, I’m gonna step into the hornet’s nest to ask, why obedience is so important when playing with a flirt pole? Let’s disregard the fact that obedience is always important, I used a flirt pole with all of my dogs, Dexter was never too interested and always preferred balls, and the current puppy seems to love it. Other than an accidental nip while playing, which hasn’t happened to me yet, and could also happen while playing with other toys, is there something about flirt poles that is different?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I just clicked for some flirt pole fun... um... 😳...tiptoeing out....


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## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

Personally, I didn't even think of it as an obedience toy, if I can be honest. I make Sutter Cain sit and wait both for my OWN sake (he LOVES to body slam my legs like a football tackle) and also because it's one of the best ways to train his Stay Until I Tell You Otherwise, which needs work.

When I bought it, I just thought "What a great toy! My baby is going to LOVE this! AND I can use it to teach him to leave my neighbor's **** chickens alone!"

You just have to be careful with it, is all. I can see how some eager young pup like mine could easily hurt himself OR the human on the other end. But I can ALSO see it being a great training tool in and of itself as well.


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## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

Deleted by author


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I'm no expert but I have some thoughts on the subject. The flirt pole can be manipulated/animated as a prey creature and it often is very exciting for a dog.It's a good tool to help teach impulse control - learning to follow commands when in an excited state.I don't know how to rate its importance, it's just something I did with my youngsters.


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## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

Sitz&Platz said:


> Funny enough, I’m responding to this thread while I’m playing with the flirt pole with one dog and throwing a ball for my older dog at the same time.


I am both amazed and envious of your multi-tasking abilities.


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## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

Thanks Terri, that’s what I thought, but I didn’t understand the difference between the flirt pole per se versus a ball, which requires a lot more self control for at least one of my dogs because that’s his obsession. I like to learn as a dog owner, because I can always do better, and it’s important to know when I’m not doing something that I should be doing. I guess I was surprised at the heated discussion over a tool that I was actually using while browsing the forum during our 2 minute break.


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## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

Rabidwolfie said:


> I am both amazed and envious of your multi-tasking abilities.


I would be amazed, too, but we were taking a quick puppy recovery break. 😂


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Sitz&Platz said:


> Thanks Terri, that’s what I thought, but I didn’t understand the difference between the flirt pole per se versus a ball, which requires a lot more self control for at least one of my dogs because that’s his obsession. I like to learn as a dog owner, because I can always do better, and it’s important to know when I’m not doing something that I should be doing. I guess I was surprised at the heated discussion over a tool that I was actually using while browsing the forum during our 2 minute break.


As always, it depends on the dog.I had one dog that was ball/frisbee obsessed and the flirt pole not as much.Whatever the particular dog finds exciting, even if it's a simple thing like opening the door to outside can be a training opportunity.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Like anything else, it depends on your goals. Any training method that is counterproductive in another part of the work shouldn't be used. If impulse control is more important than drive, a flirt pole can be a good tool for that. If drive is more important than control, it can be a good tool for that as well. It depends on the rules of the game.

If bite work is important, I would say that control can come later or rather is better taught by other means IMO. Flirt pole is a drive building exercise in early bite work, so I want the dog ramping up, not waiting for, or anticipating a command.

Much of this also depends on the dog. If he is lacking in prey drive and you are trying to place value on the game, adding control can bring things into frustration that may manifest in lack of clarity or reduction in drive, where a dog with strong prey drive can build with frustration, or lose control and training goes out the window.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Rabidwolfie said:


> Why, to protect his paws, of course.


That poor dog looks embarrassed, look at his red face


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## Rob_Drifter (Apr 11, 2021)

Whoa came in here and saw ALOT of craziness  
Annie is now OBSESSED with the flirt pole, she won't play with ANYTHING else it's crazy. I've put her pole away for 2 days and I thought she was gonna stop eating . She really likes it. Anyway, here is a picture of her when I took it away once to go inside:


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## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

You took it AWAY!! How cruel!!
50 lashes with a wet noodle for you!!

BTW Annie is a real beauty! I bet that pole helps her keep in shape LOL


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## Rob_Drifter (Apr 11, 2021)

Rabidwolfie said:


> You took it AWAY!! How cruel!!
> 50 lashes with a wet noodle for you!!
> 
> BTW Annie is a real beauty! I bet that pole helps her keep in shape LOL


Exactly! More like 50 chews on my slippers while I'm in the bathroom 

Thank you for the kind words! She may have not been the biggest pup in the litter, but she was the best looking! I hope all the exercise pays off, I get tired of it before she does!


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