# Pecking order or just plain mean?



## Mighty_Mouse (Feb 8, 2015)

Hey everyone! It's been awhile since I've posted but we've been so busy! 

I moved into a new home (my first) and now my 11 month old girl, Harley, finally has a nice big yard! YAY! but she's been so lonely since we left her play mates at my rental...so here's the scoop. 

I work as a patient advocate, Harley is my registered service dog and we spend a ton of time around other dogs and their owners. Elderly, small children, you name it. She's a doll. 

One of my patients who was elderly passed away leaving behind his 2 year old GSD, Gunner. Who was his emotional support and therapy dog. None of the family wanted him, because they must be crazy! and were about to toss him into the shelter. I just couldn't let it happen! Harley knows him and they get along well so I thought nothing of it and brought the big guy home.

I knew she would establish dominance over him and it would last a little while but didn't think it would be...this way. Let me know if this is normal or if I need to find him a better suited home. 

Harley guards me..little less now but not much. Gunner is not allowed anywhere near my bed. Yes,yes, she sleeps in bed and I'm okay with it so please no bashing there Gunner sleeps on the floor next to my bed because Harley snaps and barks and makes sure he stays away. 

She cuts him off constantly when he comes to get pet or when he ...well does anything in the house. He isn't allowed near her bowls. I had to move his away from the mats so he can eat, which she lets him do as long as the bowl is away from hers. 

She's scarfing down treats way to fast since I brought him home on Saturday. Like dangerously fast in fear that he'll take it. Which he absolutely will not. 

Gunner is very submissive and backs down right away. He's just that type of boy. She still snaps at him and takes ahold of his muzzle all the time. She doesn't seem to bite hard and he never whines but it's been a few days and hasn't lessened. 

They play so well in the yard. But when I bring them in she's pushy and I feel sorry for the big guy. 

Is Harley acting normally? Will it lessen in more time? Or is she an only child? 

He plays and loves to be pet but Harley will only allow so much before she's forcing him back away from me. He is allowed next to me on the sofa more now, so that's some progress..

What do you think?


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## Mighty_Mouse (Feb 8, 2015)

Forgot to mention!!! 

they do play inside occasionally and she rolls over while they do the play bite game and they rumble with no problems!


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## Athena'sMom (Jan 9, 2014)

Slow down! It takes time to make a new dog to become family. You have only had Gunner since Saturday, right? This is your girls home and you moved this new guy in and expect her to accept him into the family in 3 days, not going to happen. I took Titus my new two year old male into my pack 4 weeks ago and he is not quite been accepted into the pack. My females love him but Sinister my other male just tolerates him. 
1st thing, no unsupervised play! Next, give Gunner his own space to let down and relax. Give Harley, Harley time. She has been an only child and she still wants and desires one on one time. Make sure to correct her for resource guarding you. It can become a very dangerous situation for you. 
Take a step back and slow things down. Crate dogs side by side when you are not home, but avoid rough housing and playing for a few weeks. excitement can move to aggression in seconds. 
It will all work out if you slow down and not push things to be picture perfect to fast. 
Remember Gunner has suffered extreme loss and Harley space and territory has been invaded. It will take time for them. I would give it at least three months before you make a decision to re-home Gunner.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Im going through some of the same stuff the difference being Lucky is 13plus.I think since she is your service dog she is used to being the one who is w/ you all the time. Its one thing to play w/ other dogs versus living with one from a dog perspective.I try to not let the other dog not interupt when im paying attention to the other. Its not allowing another kids bad behavior or attention seeking keep the dog originally being petted from getting what is his. I have to watch about non verbals being a reason why a dog reacts . Its hard somtimes to see who is the real instigator.I think individual time with each dog is important. God knows Im struggling as I have two dogs w/ specail needs. There were some books on the thread I started about Charlie coming to live with us. Wolfy Dog gave some great advice and made some recommendations. When I get home I'll post some books WD recommended as well as some others that were recommended.

I understand taking Gunner. You saw a wonderful dog who helped his owner and was now being discarded. It may not be perf3ect but it will get better.Thanks for taking him. There are some great threads about this stuff. The search engine can link you with all kinds of threads re bringing in a new pack memeber. I find individual time helps.
I think what Athena'sMom is talikng about is the two week shutdown and there are alot of ways to do that.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Many years ago, we adopted a 2yr old male GSD and our female lab was absolutely mean to him and she never really fully accepted him. She was an alpha female and could be very possessive of us and of anything else that she decided belonged to her.

I'd say that if your female is not an alpha dog then they will sort things out and they will live together happily in your home, which will make you happy : )

Good luck.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Sounds to me like Harley is deciding when Gunnar gets food, treats ,and even petting from you. This is something YOU should be deciding,not Harley.
Spend some quality time with Gunnar, even crate Harley so she sees what is going on and let Gunnar have some attention without the risk of being pushed away, snapped at or bitten by Harley. 
Personally, I would stop Harley from being such a little witch and you should start letting her know YOU are the boss of both of the dogs, not Harley running the house her way. Don't let her bite at, growl at, snap at Gunnar. Its your house, not hers.The longer she is able to rule the roost, the worse it will get.
Give poor Gunnar time to learn his new home and the rules YOU set, not Harley. He just lost his person and is probably confused as heck,then comes into your home and is put in his place by Harley everytime he turns around. Poor Gunnar.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

You make the decisions and set the borders.

But, that said, give it time.

Glad you took the boy in.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

The book Wolfydog recommended and I bought is Patricia McCormick Feeling Outnumbered" . Its" on her website and on amazon.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

We put two rescues together when our current dog was very young and I thought they were going to kill each other at first. But eventually, the more submissive dog backed down and they became best friends. We ended up keeping both of them until the older one passed away. I had to do some interfering and the both learned a few choice phrases, like "Cut it out!" which I was surprised to find meant something to them. The female was the pushier of the two and the male eventually backed off.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I believe it needs more time, but I also think it needs to be nipped in the bud. I have almost the same kinda thing happening in reverse. My youngest GSD doesnt want my oldest male GSD near me. Thankfully my older GSD walks away, but I don't think it will stay that way and while I believe this is their home, Midnite was here first and should be able to come by me anytime. Sometimes I walk away and ignore the younger one and other times I correct him. I am also doing things with the two of them together. They get along well and play all the time. The youngest is definitely more temperamental then the other two GSDs and I sometimes think he is to attached to me, is that even possible? He reminds me of a spoiled brat(this could be their age too, mine is about 11 months too) I think it will take patience, firmness, and consistency, but I do think it can be at least managed, ideally gone, but that will depend on the individual dogs. Thankfully both dogs in our cases are more easy going then the spoiled brats


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I think your in over your head?? This happening was not your plan. You've already given this dog what he was lacking "Time." You can make it work but it's going to take much more time and effort than you were prepared to invest??

There is no harm in "foster him in place and helping him to find a more suitable home. That is still doing good by him! There is a lot of info in this thread including "I just got a rescue what do I do???" And the "Proper way to break up a dog fight. Unfortunately unless you make some changes now ...that's where your heading!

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

These should also be useful:
Leerburg | Dealing with the Dominant Dog
Leerburg | Introducing a New Dog into a Home with Other Dogs

So lot's of effort to be put forth or consider yourself his guardian and look for a more suitable home.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would set up a crate in your room and crate the new boy while you sleep. Give them treats separately, or crate him while you hand out treats, and give her hers -- do not tolerate snatching. Teach her the gentle command, make her sit, and give her one. Make her sit and put one in his crate. 

Work with them separately. 

Maybe it will get better when they are together. She is YOUNG. But she does need to know that YOU are the one who determines who is allowed to be next to you.

I would use the crate at night to make less disturbance for all of you in the night. It will be less stress for the crated dog. Less stress for you and for the young bitch.


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## SusiQ (Jul 27, 2007)

Diablo did this as well when I first brought Riley home - he was fine after about 2 weeks, but I did correct home and say "it's OK" which is my signal to him that I have everything under control.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

Who's in charge here? Sounds like Harley. I'd start by kicking her off the bed.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

lrodptl said:


> Who's in charge here? Sounds like Harley. I'd start by kicking her off the bed.


Exactly! 

YOU set the boundaries - NOT the dog. Period.

Leashed, structured exercise together. Get them separate crates, USE them.

DO NOT let the dog resource guard you, the food or sleeping spots.

Group and one-on-one obedience sessions, short ones each day. Don't let her correct, snatch and control. Get in there and show some leadership, correct her when she needs it, praise/reward for good choices.

Sounds like the new boy needs some confidence building. Tug, Agility and marker training can help with that. But also, knowing his place in the home, consistency and NOT BEING BULLIED will also help.

I always plan for a 6 week transition time for new dogs coming in. Take it slow and do it right.

They both sounds like nice dogs, and I believe this CAN work, but this is up to you


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