# Eating Too Fast And Not Chewing Enough



## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

So today is the second day I am feeding my doggies chicken drumsticks. I feed them every 2nd day right now to facilitate the transition from Kibble to Raw. Lexie and Sophie are doing great. They take their time and chew appropriately. Their stool has been a bit dry yesterday but I figure it will take a little for their system to function the way it is supposed to completely. 

The problem is Max. He does not chew enough. He somewhat chewed the first drumstick two days ago but today he chewed maybe twice and it was gone. What do you do in a case like this? How do you slow a dog that doesn't chew down enough to where the bones is actually chewed appropriately? Max's stool was perfect the past two days. 

Thanks for your input.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

The stool being dry is because there's a high bone content in drumsticks. Drumsticks are small and easy to swallow some dogs swallow them whole without a single crunch I would give a bigger piece for them to chew and something with more meat.


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

Holmeshx2 said:


> The stool being dry is because there's a high bone content in drumsticks. Drumsticks are small and easy to swallow some dogs swallow them whole without a single crunch I would give a bigger piece for them to chew and something with more meat.


I may try chicken quarters or chicken backs next week then. I think I would freak if Max would swallow an entire drumstick without chewing. So far he doesn't seem to be in distress. They must have some major powerful digestive system to digest whole bone pieces. Thanks


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Yeah drumsticks aren't usually recommended for big dogs for this reason. I give chicken leg quarters.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I avoid giving whole drumsticks. I usually give breast or thigh pieces. If I do give drumsticks, I cut them into pieces. Too many drumsticks makes them constipated :crazy:


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

Oh wow, didn't know about the drumsticks. Shoot, I thought I was doing good. I will be sure to avoid the drumsticks then. Thanks


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Try giving them partially frozen. That might make him chew a bit more.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

KSdogowner said:


> Oh wow, didn't know about the drumsticks. Shoot, I thought I was doing good. I will be sure to avoid the drumsticks then. Thanks


This comment made me wonder what your plan is for a raw diet? Maybe that has been covered in another thread by you, but I havent read here in awhile. Are you planning on doing kibble and raw (some people do) or just raw?


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Try giving them partially frozen. That might make him chew a bit more.


Thank you Jax. I will do that. 



dawnandjr said:


> This comment made me wonder what your plan is for a raw diet? Maybe that has been covered in another thread by you, but I havent read here in awhile. Are you planning on doing kibble and raw (some people do) or just raw?


Max has a sensitive stomach so I want to go slow. The plan is to feed them one piece of raw meat (chicken) for 2 weeks every other day. Then add another type of meat (maybe organ or from another animal) do that for two weeks until eventually they are all on a completely raw diet. I am feeding raw every other day to give their stomachs a day to process and not overload. Meanwhile I am using Kibble to fill in of course but I want to get them off completely. Lexie and Sophie's stomachs are great but I don't want to give them more meat with poor Max only getting a little. Does that make sense? Once they are fully on Raw I will be using this combination: 

Max - 77 lbs.

RMB = 15.5 oz. 
MM = 14 oz.
OM = 1.5 oz.

Sophie - 75 lbs.

RMB - 15 oz.
MM - 13.5 oz.
OM - 1.5 oz.

Lexie - 65 lbs.

RMB - 13 oz.
MM – 11.5 oz.
OM – 1.5 oz.

No, I have not discussed into detail at this Forum. Does the above sound reasonable?


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

They should get less RMB and more MM.. also what are you expecting to use for RMB because the bonier the piece the more MM you need. A quarter is meatier then a drumstick or a wing/back/neck. So you can't do 15 ounces of drumsticks because they are too bony if that makes sense. I didn't sit down and look at the exact portions but have one word of caution. My girl is a bit over 70 lbs... 70-72 but she only gets 17 ounces a day total so it definitely seems like a TON of food. I know technically she should be getting around 23-24 ounces but she gains too much weight with that so I had to bump it down to 17 ounces. I would definitely do less food starting out maybe try 25 ounces a day and then adjust as needed from there.


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

Holmeshx2 said:


> A quarter is meatier then a drumstick or a wing/back/neck. So you can't do 15 ounces of drumsticks because they are too bony if that makes sense.


Of course. Keep in mind that I am just using the drumsticks to start out with right now which is also the reason why I am substituting with kibble. I am not feeding them the amounts listed in the schedule at this time. This is just a prospective agenda once they are fully transitioned. By that time I expect them to have tasted all sorts of meats (Beef, Chicken, Venison maybe) and be completely off of the kibble. Based on the input I got here and on another forum, I will get chicken quarters for next week and see how that goes. 

They are doing super on day 2 of drumsticks. Max's stool is the best it has ever looked actually even though he is not fully integrated to raw yet. I am amazed. Instead of squatting down multiple times and then going again a few hours later, he has been going once and everything is looking good. Lexie and Sophie's stool is improved from two days ago. So things are looking good so far. 

After week II, I will add another kind of meat...maybe some sort of organ or beef. Don't know yet but as long as they are not fully integrated, I will substitute with kibble to ensure they get all the nutrient they need.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

KSdogowner said:


> ... but today he chewed maybe twice and it was gone. What do you do in a case like this? How do you slow a dog that doesn't chew down enough to where the bones is actually chewed appropriately?


OUR idea of appropriately chewed and a dogs are very different.

As long as it is chewed enough to go down without getting stuck I don't care HOW much they chew.

As for chicken drumsticks - they are fine to feed. Just be sure to use a little more muscle meat that day because they are more bony.

It's balance over TIME - not every day or every meal!


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> It's balance over TIME - not every day or every meal!


This is so good to know. I wasn't sure and thought every meal will have to include all of the components in appropriate balance. Balance over time is much less complicated. Thank you.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

KSdogowner said:


> This is so good to know. I wasn't sure and thought every meal will have to include all of the components in appropriate balance. Balance over time is much less complicated. Thank you.


It really isn't complicated. You need to know the rough ratios (each dog is different and you will definitely change as you go on) some dogs need more then 10% bone some less. Jinx used to need more a quarter was too little bone and would give her diarrhea and now it's too much bone for her. For her a thigh is about all the bone she can handle in a day without getting dry poop. I think as they learn to digest the bone properly they need less but thats really just my opinion and observation from Jinx.

I try to give her daily balance however I'm not a freak about it. If I have something bony thawed out and the piece happens to be all she gets for a day then the next day I feed her all MM and 2 days worth of organ meat. If I run out of organ for a few days then I just give her a big portion a few days later. If we are traveling then I give her whatever I can and make up for it when we are someplace more permanent. If i only have 14-15 ounces thawed then thats what she gets and the next day she gets a few extra ounces etc... the one thing I LOVE with raw is the fact I can be flexible and just sort of "wing it" as I go. Of course you have your basic template but you have freedom to help make it fit with what you can at the moment.


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

Holmeshx2 said:


> It really isn't complicated. You need to know the rough ratios (each dog is different and you will definitely change as you go on) some dogs need more then 10% bone some less. Jinx used to need more a quarter was too little bone and would give her diarrhea .


Yes, I can already see that there will be a difference between Sophie, Lexie and Max. Max will probably need less bone but Sophie and Lexie more. This is also the reason why I am going slow. This way I can figure it out better and give their system time to adjust slowly and efficiently. 

We don't have a freezer right now so I am limited as far as getting bulk but we will be buying one within the next two weeks. Once we have a freezer, we will be on the lookout for bulk buys. 

Thank you so much everyone for your input. You and the people on the other board have made this easier than it would have been had I taken on this task solely on my own. My doggies and I appreciate it.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

Holmeshx2 said:


> the one thing I LOVE with raw is the fact I can be flexible and just sort of "wing it" as I go. Of course you have your basic template but you have freedom to help make it fit with what you can at the moment.


This is a HUGE advantage if I do have to board my dogs. I just buy some chicken backs or turkey necks, put them in ziplock baggies with the dogs' names on them, and freeze them. I don't worry about organ meat or other stuff, because the little bit of stuff they might miss while in boarding for a few days isn't an issue. Our vet (where they board) is great about it, and the techs/kennel folks get a kick out of how happy our dogs are to get their food. 

Now I just need to get a grinder so I can feed the kitties raw as well. Muahaha.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

how old are your cats? They can eat raw as well. If they are tiny kittens you can use blue ridge beef they have a fine kitten grind that has bone in it then you can supplement fresh meat with it but use that for your bone portion.


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

OriginalWacky said:


> This is a HUGE advantage if I do have to board my dogs. I just buy some chicken backs or turkey necks, put them in ziplock baggies with the dogs' names on them, and freeze them. I don't worry about organ meat or other stuff, because the little bit of stuff they might miss while in boarding for a few days isn't an issue. Our vet (where they board) is great about it, and the techs/kennel folks get a kick out of how happy our dogs are to get their food.
> 
> Now I just need to get a grinder so I can feed the kitties raw as well. Muahaha.


I need to get some tools as well...like a hatched or something. I don't mind cutting the meat. As far as boarding...I assume what you are talking about is just a day or two? Because them eating just chicken backs and necks would not be enough for a week or would it? I am asking because there is a possibility we are going on a hiking trip out of state in May but we won't be able to take our doggies with us. Would it be too hard on their stomachs to feed them Kibble during out absence?


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

I bought a bunch of chicken quarters and some Beef Kidneys at the commissary today. It was quite reasonable. So, I am set for the next two weeks with what I think are complete meals. 

Fed the munchkins the remaining drumsticks and also a few pieces of kidney today. Lexie hates the kidney LOL. She didn't even want to eat it. Sophie wasn't sure at first but ended up eating it as well. Max loved it. Surprisingly, Max actually chewed the drumstick several times before swallowing. 

About 15 minutes after the feeding, Lexie threw up pretty much everything she ate and did not go back to it to re-eat it. So, maybe I need to take it even slower with her since she did not eat it again? She did chew the drumstick several times though. Sophie and Max did not throw up.

Max's stool is like light brown and pasty but it looks like a normal stool...just smooth. Sophie's is dark brown and also pasty but firm enough. Lexie's is dark brown and looks powdery but it is mostly formed. Maybe she needs less bone then, I guess.


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

2nd week and first time feeding chicken quarters. Also added the kidneys. For the first time they were not fed kibble today. 

Max and Sophie were very excited and ate both without a problem. Lexie looked at me like I lost my mind and I had to coax her to eat. She did reluctantly. Then she threw up everything and did not go back to re-eat it. She hates it. So I think Lexie is out. She does not enjoy this change in diet and I am going to respect that. I will continue feeding her kibble. Maybe it's because for the past 9 years she has been eating kibble. I don't know.

Max threw up about 30 minutes after Lexie threw up, but he re-ate it. Sophie is good to go so far. 

I removed the skin from the chicken quarters so it would not be too fat.


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