# Private Dog Park - Would you pay for it?



## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi All, Every once in awhile I hear about an idea for dogs and I immediately come here to see what you people think.

A friend of ours is thinking about buying an 8 acre lot with a stream running through it and a large barn like structure on it. He wants to build a members only 4 seasons Dog Park. The fee would be $365.00 a year and he would allow only 1,000 members. The dogs would be "screened" for temperament and have to provide vet records. The objective is to take the fear out of dog parks and create a safe place for the dogs and their families.

I think its a great idea and I do think people would pay for it. What do you think?


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

I have paid for a dog park membership for the last 6 years. It's gone up every year and now this year will be $365 ($1/day). That's a big leap from what I paid this year, but I'll probably still pay it because it's the only place I can take my dog swimming without alligators- and really that's the only reason I go.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Annette (bocron here) has this set up.

While I don't do dog parks, I think it's a really great idea, you can't beat 1.00 a day to take your dog to a safe place.


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

i think people would indeed pay it...here in the county i live in we are trying to get a dog park..and the citizens have been raising money ourselves to get it done..so far we have raised $9600 of the $16,000 needed! hoping we get othere soon!


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

I would pay for a quality clean dog park where all the dogs are screened


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Is there supervision, dog behavior interpretation? That would be awesome. if the dogs are professionally screened I 'd do it in a heartbeat.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

thanks to all for the replies...I will share this feed back with our friend, Jim. He's a really cool person who loves dogs. He wants to name the dog park after his departed dog.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Here is a link to what was my dog park's sister park in Jacksonville (used to be owned by same person). They have a better website than my park. I visited the Jacksonville park a few years ago and they had people sitting on lifeguard chairs who monitored interactions, which was cool. They also had breed days- that's when I visited for GSD day. My park in Gainesville used to have member parties with pizza, soda, beer, etc. Now they have things like Easter egg hunts, etc but I never go because they are open to the public (the park is open the the public for a fee during certain hours) and it draws in many people who don't understand dog parks.

Anyway, check out their website, you can see the rules and classes and other things. This park also have off leash trails which are cool.

Dog Wood Park of Jacksonville


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i would pay for a private dog park membership.
screening is a good idea but the true test will
be when the dogs get together.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

We have a local one that is $365 per year(or that is what it was at the start up). 

If I only had one dog and lived in a location that I couldn't exercise my dog, I'd join it....though they require bordatella and annual vax'ing. Not keen on that whatsoever.
But....they have grooming, dock diving pond, an agility course set up, nosework and obedience training schedule, it is seldom busy so most often we'd have the place to ourselves. 
I really don't know how they can afford the taxes and upkeep costs, membership isn't as large as what it must cost to keep it going. Meadow Run Park - Home


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I think that's a good idea. Would there be someone there to monitor what goes on with these dogs or at least be available to take complaints?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

no, if my town can afford multiple socor fields. baseball and football fields, they can afford a dog park.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

onyx'girl said:


> We have a local one that is $365 per year(or that is what it was at the start up).
> 
> If I only had one dog and lived in a location that I couldn't exercise my dog, I'd join it....though they require bordatella and annual vax'ing. Not keen on that whatsoever.
> But....they have grooming, dock diving pond, an agility course set up, nosework and obedience training schedule, it is seldom busy so most often we'd have the place to ourselves.
> I really don't know how they can afford the taxes and upkeep costs, membership isn't as large as what it must cost to keep it going. Meadow Run Park - Home


I'd pay that kind of money for a dog park like this. That looks amazing. I can find a place to let my dog off-leash anywhere, but there's very few places I can go to that provide toys, has dock diving, a pool, an agility course, a grooming station, a wash off station, etc. 

I wouldn't pay that much if it was just a small plot of land that screened dogs and checked for vaccinations. The best thing to help cut down on fights is lots and lots of space, imo.

Another reason I personally would not pay is that the dog parks I go to are free and 150 acres with a river going through and a beach. Lots of space to do your own thing. You don't even have to see another dog if you don't want to.

For me that would be quite a lot of a money for what I consider to be a pretty small dog park that doesn't provide anything special.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I wouldn't pay for it, just because I know I probably would not end up using it enough to justify the cost.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

You really need to make sure you don't have public dog parks around if you want to do this. I've seen these things work when they have training centers, agility courses, ect attached to them, but just a plot of land, I think you'll be hard pressed to find people willing to pay that much. I have to pay $20 in my county to use the 6 or so dog parks around the county, and I'm willing to do that, but for $365 I'll easily find another plot of land I can use for free lol. 8 acres is also pretty small for large breeds...they can cover that area in seconds.

Dog businesses are very difficult, you think there are a lot of people that will pay for services, but in reality when push comes to shove many people won't. Remember, you're taking a poll of dog lovers here that really care about the safety of their dogs, this is no where near a good assessment of the public at large. Also...when it comes to private parks, no matter how much screening you do, the moment something bad happens, you're liable for everything, especially because your screening process is giving people the assumption that all dogs are safe.

Good luck to your friend if he happens to do it, I know in my area a guy opened up a coffee/dog wash shop that's pretty successful, but other dog related things kind of fizzle out. We had a pretty high end pet boutique that sold breed related stuff, the guy had a good idea, but there aren't that many people out there that want a GSD related everything in their home.


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## harmony (May 30, 2002)

Absolutly if it is in an area where it is needed! I went to NY a few years ago for a visit and if I had to live there I would pay for a place like that . Where I live it would never work becuae I think there is alot of space here (well some places) so it would not be in high demand.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

We have a private one here, it looks ok and isn't near that $$. I personally at this point in my life wouldn't pay it but that's because of several reasons: I have multiple dogs and usually these places require the fee for each dog, or only a minimal discount on additional dogs. so it gets expensive fast for multi-dog homes. Second, I have a toddler and would never EVER take him to a dog park, nor would I take my dogs to one where other people could bring their kids (too much liability). If you'd asked me this pre-kids, I would've loved the idea but likely wouldn't have been able to afford it at that point in my life.

Personally I think it sounds expensive unless you are going daily or it offers a lot of other things (like the one onxy linked).

Also, the more experience I've gotten with dogs, the more I learn the places to take them that are free to do things.So I wouldn't pay that kind of $$ for a big open field to run in, and there are lots of lakes and ponds if you learn where to look where you can let a dog run and swim for free. that of course requires off lead obedience but I wouldn't turn a dog loose on 8 acres if I didn't trust them 100% anyway or you'd never catch them.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

We have a place like this nearby and it seems to do pretty well. I personally would never join.


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

I would pay if I had to for a place where Teddy can run off leash.

One rule you might want to keep in mind is "two dogs only" from any household. Our park has a two dogs per person rule, and I found that one couple was coming in with four dogs and their dogs were roaming as a very tight, exclusive pack and causing fights. Thankfully, we don't have anything like that with the morning crowd.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Just wanted to add...most people probably visit a dog park on the weekends. So the majority only have time to go maybe once a week. Charging such a high fee to those folks would mean its about $7 a visit for 52 or so visits...once you break it down into that, you realize how expensive it is if you're not going daily, or 3-4 times a week.

I know that I would have a difficult time forking over $300+ dollars for the ability to use some land for a year, but I'd also not pay a $5 per visit fee if it came down to paying each time I come. It's really not the amount, but more of the fact that I'd feel like I have to go if I paid a one time fee, and if it was $5+ a visit, I'd find somewhere free to go (lets be serious, in most areas a police officer won't write you a ticket for an off-leash dog that isn't causing issues). I really suggest figuring out how to include agility obstacles and other useful things for people and their dogs so that they can feel like they're getting something out of it.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

No, I wouldn't...That's really a lot of money..could be better used elsewhere..jan


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Depending on the rules of the park I would. Samson does a lot better off-leash than he does on-leash so having a dog park where I would...well, not have NO worry about idiots, but, at least less worry, would be nice. Depends on the quality of the park too.

Private dog park with some measure of screening and an annual fee at least does something to raise the bar a little.

Samson is very people-shy though, especially on-leash, so I would worry that would affect his chances of getting into a place like that despite the fact that he is wonderful with other dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No, for $365.00, I can get 4.5 sets of training classes. I need them more, and would go to them. 

I don't necessarily think it is a bad idea, though, but how would you police it? Would everyone get a credit card type key to use to get in and out? How often would you go wear out the pooper scooper? Would you have it segregated between large dogs and small dogs, or weight limits toward large or small dogs? How much time would you spend on complaints? And what kind of insurance would you have to buy?


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Our park is 12 acres and the yearly cost is $480.00. The rate depends on the economics of the area for sure. I am in Fulton County (same county as the city of Atlanta) so my land and taxes are not cheap.
1000 members is a pipe dream unless you are buying the land in the middle of a very populated area. I am about 40 minutes from Atlanta (we are considered a suburb of Atlanta) and I probably only have a handful of members who drive up from the city on a regular basis. Most of my members live within 15-20 minutes tops from here. Our limit is 150 which we haven't come close to hitting. I think we stick with around 60 regulars. Even with that low a number, Saturday and Sunday morning can get pretty crowded. Luckily our members spread it out throughout the day so there are only a few times where it gets crowded in the parking lot.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Jo_in_TX said:


> One rule you might want to keep in mind is "two dogs only" from any household. Our park has a two dogs per person rule, and I found that one couple was coming in with four dogs and their dogs were roaming as a very tight, exclusive pack and causing fights.


The "two dog only" rule is a good rule. Of course if a person owns more than two dogs, they could still register and bring all their dogs, just no more than two at a time.

I think a private dog park would be a great idea, and yes I would pay for it! But at this point in my life, I don't think I would pay $365 a year, simply because I wouldn't use it enough to justify the expense after a certain point. I'd use to socialize pups and young dogs, exercise, play, and proof obedience. But after a certain point I probably wouldn't need it, simply because I live in a rural area and I have lots of places to exercise my dog for free. If I lived in a crowded and congested city, however, I'd certainly pay my $365 fee and utilize it to its fullest.

It might be nice to offer different pricing options, say, either by the month, year, or day. Day users could be people just passing through town, or people who wouldn't use the park more than a couple times a month. But then, of course, you would then need someone to take admission and approve the day users, which might drive up the cost, unless you planned on having the park staffed anyway.

$365 x 1000 = $365,000/year which seems to be a pretty good budget. With that, you could probably hire people to staff the park, as well as landscapers, handymen, etc. to keep the grass mowed, the poop picked up, and equipment in good condition. A lot would depend on how much it costs to buy or lease the real estate needed.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

The biggest issue with a private park is whether it is staffed or not. Not the maintenance type stuff, but someone to act as a park monitor. My husband and I are here about 80% of the time the park is open. We do not have anyone else to monitor the park. This is why screening is so important. We also expect park members to attempt to settle disputes between themselves before drawing us in (mostly because it would mean both parties losing membership privileges). We have had a total of 2 disputes in the past 5 years. After the second incident one member starting posting on our Facebook page how for the fees they are paying there should be a trainer full time in the park. We explained that a trainer that had the skills to manage pack dynamics (a very different skill than general obedience training) can get around $70 an hour in private training fees. So for someone of that level we would be paying $140,000.00 per year in that one position alone and that would only cover the park for 40 hours a week and the park is actually open closer to 70-80 hours a week. We told them we would be happy to hire a full time trainer but that the membership fees would probably triple AND we would have to triple the membership. Needless to say they all declined LOL. 
Not to totally trash the guys business plan, but 1000 members is crazy. There is no way you are going to find that many dogs in a given area that are going to pass the evaluation that is needed to justify charging for private access. We could easily have double our current membership but we would have to seriously ease up on the evaluation to allow more in. This would obviously lead to loss of harmony in the park as it is now. 
This is one of the reasons we do added daycare and boarding to our services. The park alone is not a big moneymaker, but does pay for itself as far as maintenance goes.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks again for all of the feedback. I’ve read all of the posts and appreciate the insight which I will share with Jim. I've listed & commented on some of the issues & suggestions raised.
Water – its not easy to find a place to take dogs swimming so I think the stream will be very cool. Not sure if its deep enough water for dock diving but that’s a great idea.
Safety – Dogs & Owners are screened 
Clean – Because they are members, people are more likely to participate in keeping it clean. However, the staff member will also be responsible for cleaning
Complaints – He was thinking of having member meetings to discuss issues
Supervision – He said there would be people there to accommodate the members’ needs, I assume they will also supervise. Good point to bring up.
Grooming – Good suggestion…I’ll mention it to him
Agility course set up-We suggested this and he agrees this is important to have
Nosework and obedience training –Not something he’s considering now but may be for the future.
Wash Off Station – He plans on having this.
Pick up & Drop Off Service – For people too busy to take their own dogs to the park
County/State Parks – Cost $3.00 a day or $20.00 a season. Dogs & owners are not screened. Its not monitored, people bring their small dogs in the large breed section, health & temperament are unknown, responsibility level of owners is unknown 
Multi-Dog – He was thinking of allowing unlimited dogs, but the points brought up here may change his mind.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

bocron said:


> Not to totally trash the guys business plan, but 1000 members is crazy. There is no way you are going to find that many dogs in a given area that are going to pass the evaluation that is needed to justify charging for private access.


I don't know... it depends on where the park is located. I could see it working in NYC or LA. So much depends on the population density, dog-owning population, income and other demographics, availability of safe, legal off-leash areas, and many other factors. 

I wouldn't think it would hard to pass 1000 dogs--they just have to make sure none of the dogs are dog-aggressive, human-aggressive, or otherwise dangerous, right? I honestly think that the majority of dogs tested would pass, as long as the requirements aren't too stringent. If you added in a clause that all dogs must show a reliable recall, however, the number of passing dogs would go WAY down.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Freestep said:


> .... If you added in a clause that all dogs must show a reliable recall, however, the number of passing dogs would go WAY down.


Funny you mention that...I think the fact that many people do not have reliable recall is why they need to go to dog parks...only place they can be off leash.


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

Mac's Mom said:


> Funny you mention that...I think the fact that many people do not have reliable recall is why they need to go to dog parks...only place they can be off leash.


Regardless of that fact, it's against the law in most areas to have off-leash dogs.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

For the dog parks that have a two dog per household rule, what happens if a family comes in with 3 or 4 dogs at once? Is there someone there to catch them?


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Jo_in_TX said:


> Regardless of that fact, it's against the law in most areas to have off-leash dogs.


Where I live, dogs do not have to be on leash on our own property or at the dog parks.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Freestep said:


> I don't know... it depends on where the park is located. I could see it working in NYC or LA. So much depends on the population density, dog-owning population, income and other demographics, availability of safe, legal off-leash areas, and many other factors.
> 
> I wouldn't think it would hard to pass 1000 dogs--they just have to make sure none of the dogs are dog-aggressive, human-aggressive, or otherwise dangerous, right?* I honestly think that the majority of dogs tested would pass, as long as the requirements aren't too stringent*. If you added in a clause that all dogs must show a reliable recall, however, the number of passing dogs would go WAY down.


If you were in NYC or LA, then 8 acres would be cost prohibitive at the rate suggested. The OP is in the midwest, so I was guessing they were in that area. 
We are just outside metro Atlanta. If we were inside city limits, there is no way you could find 12 acres that you could justify a dog park that would make any money. Inside the city you need to put up a high rise, or multiple story structure to justify the per acre cost. 
The "majority" of dogs we test are just barely social and most of the owners are clueless about reading their dogs, much less other dogs in the park. The owners think just because they are "sweet" dogs then they will just get along. When we first opened, we were hoping that at a bare minimum we would require a reliable recall, what a joke. Most of these people have no idea what that is much less how to teach it. Plus, they are of the mind set like the OP that they don't need one since it's a dog park. 
The part where you said the majority of the dogs would pass as long as the requirements aren't too stringent is the deal breaker. The people paying for a private park expect EVERY OTHER dog to be perfectly trained and have perfect temperament. For their $1 or $2 per day they want all the other dogs to be Lassie, not Marley. They are generally not very forgiving if their dog is the one getting body slammed by the rambunctious doodle or getting snapped at by a bossy Jack Russell. If you aren't stringent in your requirements, you will spend all day fielding phone calls and snarky Facebook comments about the "other" dogs in the park. Not to mention discussing who will pay for the stitches or staples when a scrap results in an ear tear, or a slam results in a torn cruciate ligament. The dogs that hump when excited or that growl over "their" stick are the ones you will hear about full time. 
In the past 5 years, we have probably done evaluations on over 300 dogs. Probably half of them we don't have to turn down as the owner realize they are not going to suit the situation without us having to tell them. We have taken membership of about 150 dogs. Probably 20-30 have moved away, another 20-30 quit their membership after a quarter (not using it enough to justify the fee). We have probably revoked membership of a dozen or so dogs who were fine as pups but became problems as adults and the owners didn't want to do any work to rectify. The remainder are all decent owners with imperfect dogs. Some enjoy training but most just want to hang out in peace.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Yeah when it comes to private property I'm pretty sure those laws don't count. But I live in a pretty big city, I grew up in Chicago, and I just don't see many people paying that high of a premium to use something other than the public parks. You have to remember most people don't realize there could be trouble at a dog park. So without those other things adding value to the park, I can't see many people joining. There are always enough places to go with your dog for free.

We have enough people at our county parks that don't pay the $20 yearly pass and just go for free. I've gone to dog parks so much and without this forum I would've never known or thought about the dangers. I've seen very few fights, very few problems, and in general people are pretty good at the ones I've gone to.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

What bocron described will be your biggest issue...for 20 a year I will look past the problems the other dogs are causing and will deal with them by avoiding or leaving. For 300+ a year I can't just ignore, I've paid to make sure the park is up to my standard, I want my dog to be safe, and I'm not just going to leave because it's not a safe place and then come back when I think the danger is gone. Charging people for premium services causes a lot more problems when it comes to not meeting expectations.


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Honestly, no, I wouldn't. (not saying it's a bad idea though)

1: That's a lot of money that I could use toward training, equipment, and care for my dogs. I do not have a settled schedule for work and I have a busy lifestyle, so there's no way I'd be there every day. I would probably go 2-3 times a week if I'm lucky. I don't see the value in it for us.

2: I have 3 dogs. One that LOVES other dogs and would definitely benefit from a park. She's more of a golden retriever then a GSD. The puppy I will absolutely not put in a dog park... even screened. Too much going for that pup, I can't have her injured or any behavioral issues by someone being careless or any fights (dogs are still animals... screened or not, they will happen). And then there's Duke... He doesn't enjoy being around many other dogs. He likes a few and will play all day with them.... but, there's a certain few he doesn't like (and there's no warning). At that point, he means business and can be dangerous. I'm pretty sure he would not even make it passed the screening process because of that (if they were to do it like I would expect for a park charging that much). And I wouldn't trust him at a full dog park. So overall, I would have 1 dog that could actually enjoy it and two that would have to stay home in their crates while she went to play. After running around a dog park... I would have to come home and work 2 others.... No thanks. I don't have the time for that and I wouldn't want my other two suffering.

3: I just don't enjoy dog parks anymore... too many around here get "cliquey". It's almost like high school all over again. Too many ignorant, bad dog owners in my area.... I don't think we could enjoy a park like this without someone ruining it.

The dog park scene just doesn't appeal to me. However, for the single dog owner that has a set schedule weekly (normal 9-5, M-F type job)..... that would probably be worth it. If that was my lifestyle... I would look into that. I know it DOES appeal to many, given the right area and demand for it.

Bocron's ideas are great and I'm sure I'd probably enjoy that park if I could give up that money each year. If your friend listens to the suggestions they posted about their park, his park will probably turn out pretty well.

Good luck to your friend! It's a cool idea, just may be a bit hard to pull off at first.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

I went to the dog park today and was thinking about this thread and what others have mentioned on here. The price has gone up so much and will now be $365/year. I only go so Mikko can swim without getting eaten by alligators, he rarely plays with another dog and there are many parks in my town I can take him off leash to play and chase squirrels, some have creeks he can cool off in too (no gators). In six years, this is actually the first time I've considered not renewing our membership. I might use that money to buy him an above ground pool to swim in and take him to other parks.
I think everyone is right that the park needs to be something special- the only off leash option, or the only off leash option with water or the biggest off leash place, etc.
If I had a lake to take Mikko to, I would have dropped my membership about three years ago.


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## AllyMW (May 26, 2012)

Ours is only 25$ per year (But i dont pay due to I dont go that often... But shhhh)


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## TriadGSD (Feb 19, 2011)

there is a dog park members only not sure how much it is but, everytime i drive by there i see noone. the area is large and the grass is beautiful dark green


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

bocron said:


> The "majority" of dogs we test are just barely social and most of the owners are clueless about reading their dogs, much less other dogs in the park.


But you are trainers, yes? I would guess that you see a larger proportion of dogs with issues, because people go to trainers when their dog has issues--average people with well-behaved dogs probably don't seek out trainers. Do you think you see an average cross-section of the pet owning population in that regard? As a groomer, I see temperaments across the board, and probably 75% of the dogs I see don't have any particular issues. That is why I'm thinking that the majority of dogs wouldn't be a problem in a dog park situation. But I don't run a dog park, daycare, or kennel, so I don't always get to see how my doggie clients interact with other dogs in that setting. So I could be way off.



> If you aren't stringent in your requirements, you will spend all day fielding phone calls and snarky Facebook comments about the "other" dogs in the park. Not to mention discussing who will pay for the stitches or staples when a scrap results in an ear tear, or a slam results in a torn cruciate ligament.


That's a really good point, and why I personally would not want to be running a private dog park. The liability is high, and you're right, the people who pay for the privlege of using the park are probably going to expect a lot of bang for the buck... I can just hear somebody saying "If I wanted to deal with *THAT*, I'd go to a public dog park!"

Still, I think the idea could work, if whoever is doing it has the temperament and the wherewithall to make it work.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Freestep said:


> But you are trainers, yes? I would guess that you see a larger proportion of dogs with issues, because people go to trainers when their dog has issues--average people with well-behaved dogs probably don't seek out trainers. Do you think you see an average cross-section of the pet owning population in that regard?


I'd say at least 75% of the phone calls we get are people who did a search specifically for dog park, not for dog trainer. Many don't even realize we offer training until they call us or have looked at the website more in depth. Same thing for daycare, people search for daycare, get the number and call.


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## minerva_deluthe (May 6, 2012)

I wouldn't pay for it, no.

But we have public dog parks and I find other places to walk my dog off leash.


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## Sir Bear (Mar 9, 2012)

Oh man...I would pay more than that to have "screened applicants" at the dog park! To me, the people willing to pay that kind of money probably also invest in other aspects of their dogs well-being (temperment, etc) I think that's an incredible idea personally.

My dog goes bananas for the dog park...like nuclear happiness...but we go less and less because nobody there watches their dogs. Bummer.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Sir Bear said:


> Oh man...I would pay more than that to have "screened applicants" at the dog park! To me, the people willing to pay that kind of money probably also invest in other aspects of their dogs well-being (temperment, etc) I think that's an incredible idea personally.


But its not that those people invest in other aspects...its how many are there out there?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

We have something like that in our area, and it seems to be very popular because lots of the dog owners I meet at our favorite spot mention taking their dogs there. It's the same price, too.

I went to check it out a few months ago. My dog passed the initial evaluation, but he's failed 2 criteria: he isn't neutered, and he doesn't have flea prevention. So even if I wanted to join, I couldn't at this point.


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## Sir Bear (Mar 9, 2012)

martemchik said:


> But its not that those people invest in other aspects...its how many are there out there?



I certainly don't think this would make the op's friend money...but here in Hawaii (no space, strict leash laws) some communities have gone to the lengths of starting a non-profit organization to raise money to buy the insanely priced acreage needed to build a dog park and it worked. What they don't do is screen dogs which I would love.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

martemchik said:


> I know that I would have a difficult time forking over $300+ dollars for the ability to use some land for a year, but I'd also not pay a $5 per visit fee if it came down to paying each time I come. It's really not the amount, but more of the fact that I'd feel like I have to go if I paid a one time fee, and if it was $5+ a visit, I'd find somewhere free to go (lets be serious, in most areas a police officer won't write you a ticket for an off-leash dog that isn't causing issues). I really suggest figuring out how to include agility obstacles and other useful things for people and their dogs so that they can feel like they're getting something out of it.


I actually have taken my dog to a dog park where the fee is $5-10 per visit/day if you don't have a yearly permit. I've only gone there a few times ever though when I happened to be out in that area. 
It's a really nice park on 44 acres with huge fields and paths, a fenced training ring and a separately-fenced off pond area (so your dog can't swim unless you want them to). The times I've gone we only ever saw a few other people/dogs there and usually they were off in the distance. Their yearly fee is $120 for non-residents of the county and $45 for residents (for one dog, additional dogs cost extra) It is a really nice park, if I was closer or lived in the county I might consider a yearly permit.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

We do not require the dogs be neutered (our aren't so we didn't want to be hypocrites) and we don't require flea treatment. The flea treatment requirement is pretty silly, I mean if you don't want your own dog to get fleas then treat it, otherwise you're the one taking the risk so why should it matter. It's not like we could treat the entire 12 acres for fleas/ticks so they are out there no matter what. Plus, at our place they spend most of their time in the water.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

A spay/neuter requirement seems like a good idea on the face of it, but would be hard to enforce and problematic in many ways. Not to mention, it would automatically restrict owners of show dogs, who are the exact people who would want to pay for a private park.

Obviously, you'd have to have a "no females in heat" rule, because there would be someone just stupid enough to bring their cycling females thinking a private dog park would be "safe".


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

You've all brought up a lot of thought provoking points and potential issues and I'll share them with Jim. I was going to cut & paste them into a document but I didn't expect this many replies. I think I'll just have him read the post himself 

Jim and I see this from two different perspectives. Jim's the kinda guy who likes animals more than people. He's thinking of this from the dog's point of view. He wants to build a safe place for dogs to be off leash. He's not particularly interested in what the humans want  

Me, I love surrounding myself with dog people and their dogs. I like the dog park because I like to get to know all different kinds of dogs and talk about dog related things with people who like dogs. Thats why this is the only forum I go to and my only facebook page is the one for my dogs. I'm seeing this as a social place for dog lovers as well as a safe place for dogs.

And another thing about Jim. He's an independently weathly guy who just wants to do this and does not expect to profit only cover his costs.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Mac's Mom said:


> And another thing about Jim. He's an independently weathly guy who just wants to do this and does not expect to profit only cover his costs.


Perfect! Sounds like he's got realistic expectations, and if he has money to burn, why not? I think with him as the "dog guy", and you as the "people person", you could make great business partners! And since he doesn't seem to care about profit, just make sure YOUR salary will get paid, and it's all good.  

In my area, independently wealthy people who need a tax shelter start up high-end boutiques or wineries. They are almost guaranteed not to make a profit, so basically, the expenses are all written off on income tax as a loss, which saves money. You can only do this for 5 years before you either have to start making a profit, or calling this a "hobby" and cannot use it as a write-off.

A private dog park would be a similar type of situation for someone with more money than they know what to do with.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Mac's Mom said:


> Jim and I see this from two different perspectives. Jim's the kinda guy who likes animals more than people. He's thinking of this from the dog's point of view. He wants to build a safe place for dogs to be off leash. He's not particularly interested in what the humans want


That would be perfectly fine if the dogs were the ones forking out the cash .


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> That would be perfectly fine if the dogs were the ones forking out the cash .


​Agreed. 
And before reading through the thread I thought having a safe place for dogs to run off leash with water access where their owners can socialize would be awesome and definitely worth the money. In fact, I told him that with good marketing he could have 1,000 members in 3 months.

While we had lots of ideas on what to include, we really did not anticipate all of the issues that have been risen here.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Freestep said:


> Perfect! Sounds like he's got realistic expectations, and if he has money to burn, why not? I think with him as the "dog guy", and you as the "people person", you could make great business partners! And since he doesn't seem to care about profit, just make sure YOUR salary will get paid, and it's all good.
> 
> In my area, independently wealthy people who need a tax shelter start up high-end boutiques or wineries. They are almost guaranteed not to make a profit, so basically, the expenses are all written off on income tax as a loss, which saves money. You can only do this for 5 years before you either have to start making a profit, or calling this a "hobby" and cannot use it as a write-off.
> 
> A private dog park would be a similar type of situation for someone with more money than they know what to do with.


The more I think about it, he must be expecting some sort of profit because when I told him one thing that would make me want to be a member is if the "club" donated a percentage of its profits to local rescues or other organizations that helped dogs. He immediately agreed to that idea.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Mac's Mom said:


> . Jim's the kinda guy who likes animals more than people. He's thinking of this from the dog's point of view. He wants to build a safe place for dogs to be off leash. He's not particularly interested in what the humans want


Ok, so here's a good comparison. Our place is absolutely set up more from a dog's point of view (or our view of a dog's point of view since we are humans). We have one large fenced field that is about the size of a football field, a smaller side field about 40ft by 80ft (it's good for new pups or smaller dogs, and is also a good time out area for chilling out). We have a 1500 sf training and social room that is heated/ac and has a bathroom and kitchen. The rest of the park is nature trails along a good sized creek. Within the nature areas we get regular deliveries from local tree companies of wood chips. We spread these chips on the walking trails and we leave a few piles around since the dogs LOVE to roll or dig in these piles (usually the piles are about 4 ft high and 8-10feet around). Our place is kept mowed and basically cleaned up, but it doesn't look like a designer garden or showplace. 
About 5 miles from here a public dog park won the Beneful Dream Park contest and was given $500,000.00 to make the perfect dog park. It took about a year to finish and has all kinds of stuff,beautiful artificial turf, tunnels, agility equipment, bone shaped bridges (I don't get that everything in a dog park has to be bone shaped or paw shaped, but whatever). There is a water feature that randomly squirts water out of holes in the ground, etc, you get the picture. Anyway, a few of our members live right by the new park. They tried it out and said it was beautiful but that the dogs were kind of confused LOL. They didn't really have any shade and the other dogs there were all butt-holes and the owners had terrible dog park manners, they didn't watch their dogs but did love to laugh about the dogs who were resource guarding the water spouts. 
Anyway, I guess my point is that making it just for the dogs will probably limit the people who like the superficial aspects of some dog places. At our place, we really don't care to be honest. The dog park is a secondary aspect of our place to us, we enjoy being able to offer the service to those who want it and are willing to follow the guidelines, but it is not our main focus day in and day out. We have nice chairs in some areas for the people to use, a few water stations for hosing off a dog or putting some water in a dish, but mostly the park is about the getting dirty and having fun. There are people who come out here for their evaluation and I can see they want the cutesy stuff and I know that they won't join from the get go. Then there are the folks who see our place and say "my dog will LOVE this place" and I know that a)they will join, and b)they will use the park very regularly, which is what we want.
I will say that at the "Dream" park they have had some issues with kids and dogs. I think that the way it is designed also appeals to kids so parents let the kids run wild in the park which has resulted in some kids getting corrected by dogs. 

Here's a link to the dream park opening day (it was packed to say the least ).

Johns Creek Newtown Dream Dog Park opening June 15, 2011 - a set on Flickr


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

bocron said:


> Ok, so here's a good comparison. Our place is absolutely set up more from a dog's point of view (or our view of a dog's point of view since we are humans). We have one large fenced field that is about the size of a football field, a smaller side field about 40ft by 80ft (it's good for new pups or smaller dogs, and is also a good time out area for chilling out). We have a 1500 sf training and social room that is heated/ac and has a bathroom and kitchen. The rest of the park is nature trails along a good sized creek. Within the nature areas we get regular deliveries from local tree companies of wood chips. We spread these chips on the walking trails and we leave a few piles around since the dogs LOVE to roll or dig in these piles (usually the piles are about 4 ft high and 8-10feet around). Our place is kept mowed and basically cleaned up, but it doesn't look like a designer garden or showplace.
> About 5 miles from here a public dog park won the Beneful Dream Park contest and was given $500,000.00 to make the perfect dog park. It took about a year to finish and has all kinds of stuff,beautiful artificial turf, tunnels, agility equipment, bone shaped bridges (I don't get that everything in a dog park has to be bone shaped or paw shaped, but whatever). There is a water feature that randomly squirts water out of holes in the ground, etc, you get the picture. Anyway, a few of our members live right by the new park. They tried it out and said it was beautiful but that the dogs were kind of confused LOL. They didn't really have any shade and the other dogs there were all butt-holes and the owners had terrible dog park manners, they didn't watch their dogs but did love to laugh about the dogs who were resource guarding the water spouts.
> Anyway, I guess my point is that making it just for the dogs will probably limit the people who like the superficial aspects of some dog places. At our place, we really don't care to be honest. The dog park is a secondary aspect of our place to us, we enjoy being able to offer the service to those who want it and are willing to follow the guidelines, but it is not our main focus day in and day out. We have nice chairs in some areas for the people to use, a few water stations for hosing off a dog or putting some water in a dish, but mostly the park is about the getting dirty and having fun. There are people who come out here for their evaluation and I can see they want the cutesy stuff and I know that they won't join from the get go. Then there are the folks who see our place and say "my dog will LOVE this place" and I know that a)they will join, and b)they will use the park very regularly, which is what we want.
> I will say that at the "Dream" park they have had some issues with kids and dogs. I think that the way it is designed also appeals to kids so parents let the kids run wild in the park which has resulted in some kids getting corrected by dogs.
> ...


You sound like Jim.  Maybe Jim's simplistic idea won't make money .... but I don't think I want to change it.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

bocron said:


> They tried it out and said it was beautiful but that the dogs were kind of confused LOL. They didn't really have any shade and the other dogs there were all butt-holes and the owners had terrible dog park manners, they didn't watch their dogs but did love to laugh about the dogs who were resource guarding the water spouts.


That's the problem when people design the park for PEOPLE and not for dogs.

Personally, if I were to design a dog park, it would be for the DOGS. Of course you have to make it comfortable for people too, or they won't bring their dogs, but I think Bocron's place sounds like heaven.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Freestep said:


> That's the problem when people design the park for PEOPLE and not for dogs.
> 
> Personally, if I were to design a dog park, it would be for the DOGS. Of course you have to make it comfortable for people too, or they won't bring their dogs, but I think Bocron's place sounds like heaven.


Thanks, Freestep! Oddly enough, when the people who come here who "get" what we are trying to create see it, they almost always describe it as dog heaven LOL. I used to get my feelings hurt when people came out and kind of gave it a sneer when it didn't seem fancy enough or pretty enough. I eventually figured out that those weren't really my target members anyway and understood the concept of "you can't please everyone" and decided to please the people who we felt like were real "dog people". 
We do throw a few big parties every year where we have a big potluck dinner and spiffy everything up for the members, but overall we feel like the dogs are our clients and gear our services toward them.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

bocron said:


> I eventually figured out that those weren't really my target members anyway and understood the concept of "you can't please everyone" and decided to please the people who we felt like were real "dog people".


Yep--you can't please everyone, so you have to decide WHO you want to please, which is kind of fun because you get to select for the kind of people you want to do business with.

I run a grooming shop, and I don't want to deal with the hoity-toity set who expect everything in their lives to be perfect, often have the latest fad breed in order to promote their own image, and don't really care about the dog's best interest. These are the people who want their dog to look like a show dog, but refuse to do any maintenance in between.

So, my shop is not a fancy "boutique". I designed it for maximum efficiency, ergonomics, and comfort. It looks nice, but it doesn't look frou-frou at all. Not saying I wouldn't LOVE to have some nice landscaping, a water feature, etc... but that is an added expense, and on a limited budget I had to prioritize.

I still get a few frou-frou clients, but have been able to instill a dose of canine reality into their world, and they understand that they must either do some grooming at home, or schedule with me every 2-3 weeks. Somehow I scheduled two of them at the same time tomorrow--one with a full-coated Afghan and one with a full-coated OES. I don't know what posessed me to do that. :crazy:


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

Keep your fingers and toes crossed that they are both in fairly good coat condition. There's nothing worse than a full coated dog who is a tangled mess!




Freestep said:


> Somehow I scheduled two of them at the same time tomorrow--one with a full-coated Afghan and one with a full-coated OES. I don't know what posessed me to do that. :crazy:


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Got directed over here and wanted to chime in.



Mac's Mom said:


> Hi All, Every once in awhile I hear about an idea for dogs and I immediately come here to see what you people think.
> 
> A friend of ours is thinking about buying an 8 acre lot with a stream running through it and a large barn like structure on it. He wants to build a members only 4 seasons Dog Park. The fee would be $365.00 a year and he would allow only 1,000 members. The dogs would be "screened" for temperament and have to provide vet records. The objective is to take the fear out of dog parks and create a safe place for the dogs and their families.
> 
> I think its a great idea and I do think people would pay for it. What do you think?


Honestly, for this size, I do not think it will work or make any money or draw the people you want for that price. NOR are you (Jim..) going to 
want 1000 dogs on 8 acres. I work at this park www.meadowrunpark.com that Onyx posted back at page one or two... we have about 300 dog members now, and we're about to start slowing it down. And we have 25 acres. Most you'll get out here on the weekends at one time is 50 or so dogs, but that is 2 dogs/acre on average and we don't want it to become congested. 

If he lowered the price (that's the price WE charge for a full year's membership...) then he might be able to make it work, but I wouldn't allow more than 100 members or so, so it might not be worth it.



selzer said:


> No, for $365.00, I can get 4.5 sets of training classes. I need them more, and would go to them.
> 
> I don't necessarily think it is a bad idea, though, but how would you police it? Would everyone get a credit card type key to use to get in and out? How often would you go wear out the pooper scooper? Would you have it segregated between large dogs and small dogs, or weight limits toward large or small dogs? How much time would you spend on complaints? And what kind of insurance would you have to buy?


This is what we do at the park where I work. We have a program called Intelli that is on our computer and a box on the gate at the fence, and when a member joins they get a key card for it that is a proximity card, to get in when the office is closed or if they don't want to walk through the office. The program logs who comes and goes and when of course, so we see it all on our computer and can monitor who's here when we're not. We are in the office about 80-90% of the time the park is available to be used by members (dusk till dawn) so the staff handles any behavior issues as needed and processes visitors. We might have a formal complaint every 5 months or so... very seldom. Every couple of months we might have a small tiff with no bloodshed between dogs in the park, to be expected, not everyone gets along, and sometimes members have drama amongst themselves that we keep track of, too... but we don't spend much time overall on issues like that between the dogs and members. 

We have poop stations all over the park and the members help each other notice when their dog's are going if someone is distracted. Otherwise, the staff walks the park every morning and picks up extra piles and we remind members of the rule if we see them purposefully breaking it. 



Mac's Mom said:


> Thanks again for all of the feedback. I’ve read all of the posts and appreciate the insight which I will share with Jim. I've listed & commented on some of the issues & suggestions raised.
> Water – its not easy to find a place to take dogs swimming so I think the stream will be very cool. Not sure if its deep enough water for dock diving but that’s a great idea.
> Safety – Dogs & Owners are screened
> Clean – Because they are members, people are more likely to participate in keeping it clean. However, the staff member will also be responsible for cleaning
> ...


Our pond with regulation sized dock for dock diving is 7' deep, so he'd want something about that for the dogs if he wanted a dock... That would take up a large part of the park though, too. We have indoor self-serve grooming tubs which make us a lot of money, would be a good idea for him to invest in. 

Just to get an idea of other policies, we allow no more than 4 dogs per person in the park, and this hasn't been an issue yet.. usually with the space they're going seperate ways and members know what they can handle. We have reduced fees for each additional dog in the same family, and we do terminate memberships and talk to owners who are not diligent with training/managing their dogs in the park.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

When you mean private dog park does this mean we get to use the dog park individually? I would pay for that. Some enclosed space to work on recall and training without other dogs there.

Or do you mean private for those who have been prescreened to use the park? My dogs would fail  Even if they didn't fail, I don't think I'd pay for it. Despite the prescreening of temperament, it's hard to envision what the dogs will be like together. To me, it isn't very much different from another dog park...


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Zeeva said:


> When you mean private dog park does this mean we get to use the dog park individually? I would pay for that. Some enclosed space to work on recall and training without other dogs there.
> 
> Or do you mean private for those who have been prescreened to use the park? My dogs would fail  Even if they didn't fail, I don't think I'd pay for it. Despite the prescreening of temperament, it's hard to envision what the dogs will be like together. To me, it isn't very much different from another dog park...


The OP is talking about a space for "rent" where it's JUST you and your dogs, no other dogs.

However, I think you'd be surprised at the difference temperament screening towards dogs does in a private park setting. There is a public county park around here where we hear about fights weekly, requiring ER Vet trips, etc. and many members come here after going there... we have had one real dog fight ever that required a trip to the (regular hours appointment) vet... and we've been open for two years, all year round.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

DJEtzel said:


> The OP is talking about a space for "rent" where it's JUST you and your dogs, no other dogs.
> 
> However, I think you'd be surprised at the difference temperament screening towards dogs does in a private park setting. There is a public county park around here where we hear about fights weekly, requiring ER Vet trips, etc. and many members come here after going there... we have had one real dog fight ever that required a trip to the (regular hours appointment) vet... and we've been open for two years, all year round.


I'm confused, I thought the OP was talking about a dog park where there are other dogs but they are all temperament screened?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> I'm confused, I thought the OP was talking about a dog park where there are other dogs but they are all temperament screened?


I'm sorry, I was multi-tasking at work and just mixed up/combined responses to two different threads. The OP here is indeed talking about a screened private park.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Sorry I didn't realize their were more replies. Thanks for taking the time. His orginal idea before Mike and I started describing our dream dog park, was simply to have a safe place for people to take their dogs. I think people are going to expect a lot more than that. And I honestly don't think he's interested in all of that. The entire venture now seems exhausting and overwhelming and if it were me, I wouldn't do it.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Jim confirmed he got the land and is starting the dog park.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I was on fb yesterday chatting with someone that owns a small local dogpark. I don't know how successful it is as I don't go there and there are a few around to compete with. Her dream or future goal is to have an indoor 'wellness' facility with pool, underwater treadmills, core exercise equipment. I think that is a great idea, especially when the snow limits some of the outdoor exercise or dogs needing PT. And it is needed in this town! 
I'd pay to use something like that on a regular basis.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> I was on fb yesterday chatting with someone that owns a small local dogpark. I don't know how successful it is as I don't go there and there are a few around to compete with. Her dream or future goal is to have an indoor 'wellness' facility with pool, underwater treadmills, core exercise equipment. I think that is a great idea, especially when the snow limits some of the outdoor exercise or dogs needing PT. And it is needed in this town!
> I'd pay to use something like that on a regular basis.


We drove around to check out the land today and its pretty awesome. There is a clubhouse on the property could be used for indoor activities.

I love the idea of a wellness center. Mike and I tough it out pretty well during the winter to keep the boys active but it would be nice for them to get in the water.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

I know honestly he's not in this to make a lot of money but I am trying to think of some revenue generating ideas. He wants it to be just about the dogs but like some people have said its the people who are paying


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Training classes are a good way to bring in revenue. Also holding trials and workshops(big name trainers) at the facility can bring in extra $. 
But then you'd have the members limited in their access if the place was closed for trials or whatever...unless it was large enough for a designated trial area.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> I was on fb yesterday chatting with someone that owns a small local dogpark. I don't know how successful it is as I don't go there and there are a few around to compete with. Her dream or future goal is to have an indoor 'wellness' facility with pool, underwater treadmills, core exercise equipment. I think that is a great idea, especially when the snow limits some of the outdoor exercise or dogs needing PT. And it is needed in this town!
> I'd pay to use something like that on a regular basis.


I'm not sure who you talked to, but my boss is hoping to do the same thing. She has about 10 extra acres of land sitting next to the park where she wants to in the next year or so build an indoor training facility for rental/shows/training classes and have a hyrdotherapy/massage/chiro area too. THAT would be fantastic. We definitely do need something like that around.



Mac's Mom said:


> We drove around to check out the land today and its pretty awesome. There is a clubhouse on the property could be used for indoor activities.
> 
> I love the idea of a wellness center. Mike and I tough it out pretty well during the winter to keep the boys active but it would be nice for them to get in the water.


Clubhouse is the way to hit it with the customers! We have a grooming room in our park's office where there are three tubs and owners can pay to have all of their needs supplied for a bath that they give the dog themselves. And the employees clean up the mess! We also have a half kitchen with refreshments (coffee, hot chocolate, tea!) for the members and a table with cheap dog treats for the dogs to have when they come inside. And a sitting area of course, with retail on the side!



Mac's Mom said:


> I know honestly he's not in this to make a lot of money but I am trying to think of some revenue generating ideas. He wants it to be just about the dogs but like some people have said its the people who are paying


Grooming (self serve or bringing in a groomer!), retail, training classes and seminars are all great ways to make money out of not much! And offer services for each type of owner as well.. the sport enthusiasts, fru fru owners, and those that just spoil their dogs rotten!


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

great ideas I love it. Thank you.

Jim has said a few times that he wants Mike & I involved but because its been awhile since last we spoke seriously about it, I'm not sure what he's expecting. Maybe he just wants me to do the upfront marketing and Mike the IT stuff. I don't know. But I'm seeing this as an opportunity to build some sort of a rescue as well. I know I'm jumping the gun but I'm really excited now.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd love to be in it from the ground up...really I think it would be a good opportunity to help with rescue. 

Has he viewed websites of other dogparks to get idea's of layout and activities/perks?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

google the wantage nj dog park. some photos and video. we donate 100.00 a year. plenty of room, 4 "clean" porta potty for the humans. running well water fro the dogs, a stream outside the back gate for swimming, a few picnic tables and gazeebo to get out of the sun if needed. a smaller area fro pups and smaller dogs. since wife and i use it often we donate, others simply use it for free. mostly the same people, we all clean up after our dogs. only one problem dog and he was asked to leave by the regulars. why would i join a private dog park.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> I'd love to be in it from the ground up...really I think it would be a good opportunity to help with rescue.
> 
> Has he viewed websites of other dogparks to get idea's of layout and activities/perks?


are you speaking literally? like if I can get the rescue part going you want to be involved? or are you speaking figuratively? just asking because if I can get this part going I will be reaching out

and aside from the information we've shared with him, i don't know how much competitive research he's done.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

I don't know if I've mentioned this before but one of Jim's ideas was to pick up the dogs and bring them to the dog park...pretty much for people who want their dogs to have fun but don't have the time for them


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

It's really a great idea, I wish all dog parks were screened. I think people would definitely pay for it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Mac's Mom said:


> are you speaking literally? like if I can get the rescue part going you want to be involved? or are you speaking figuratively? just asking because if I can get this part going I will be reaching out
> 
> and aside from the information we've shared with him, i don't know how much competitive research he's done.


LOL! If I lived near you, I'd love to help...I was posting if I was in YOUR position...what a great opportunity(though I'm ready for a career change).
I think you'll have some good resources right here from ones that do rescue, for some pointers.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> LOL! If I lived near you, I'd love to help...I was posting if I was in YOUR position...what a great opportunity(though I'm ready for a career change).
> I think you'll have some good resources right here from ones that do rescue, for some pointers.


LOL I assumed you meant if you were in my position. But I also read it as you'd want to be a part of it...and you will be. If I can make this happen, I'll definately reach out to you and other people here.


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