# Frustrated!??! Just when we think we have chosen...



## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

I am getting REALLY frustrated with trying to find a good breeder that is local to us. 

Just when I decide I get conflicting information, and because no one can post negative reviews in the open forum it cant be debated or verified or anything else. 

So, my question is how do you know that one breeder is REALLY better than another. Some have more neg reviews that others but then others have almost no neg reviews online but privately I get told there are problems and they are major breeders etc. and to find local smaller breeders. 

I am feeling very over whelmed at this moment. How did you ultimately decide when you first started? I know that after a while in the gsd training/club realm I will have a better idea but while still a newbie, its an overwhelming and frustrating process. 

Do you just throw a dart at a dart board and hope you are making the right choice?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Ask us.


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

Freestep said:


> Ask us.


 I have been and getting some good advice from what I can tell... I have also learned a great deal. I am just feeling so frustrated that I guess I needed to vent a little bit about it.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I spent months researching and emailing breeders, and just like you once I found one *I* thought was great, I'd find out something bad and be back to square one

I ended up choosing a breeder who was recommended to me by a vet tech at my vet and also another breeder who I respected and was looking at. I contacted the breeder and within a few weeks had decided that no matter how long I had to wait I was going to get a puppy from them. I'm picking up my little boy next week! It's been a long ride but oh so worth it

Being at almost the end of my search has taught me a LOT about patience, don't rush into the decision, the dog is going to be with you for over ten years


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

If I were you I'd go with a small breeder who works their dogs themselves. You could get screwed over by "big-time" breeders like I was when I was looking for my first GSD.


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## sabledog (Mar 13, 2012)

Puppies are a crap shoot no matter what. I looked at breeders for a long time. I talked to people with dogs from those breeders. I talked to the breeders. I ended up going with a small breeder who produces healthy, sound dogs. She's been helpful every step of the way. She let me fly across the country to stay at her house and evaluate the dog I'd be taking home, and made it clear I was still not obligated to get a dog from her. I was honest about what I wanted, and I felt that she was the most honest about what she had and produced.

I ended up with Danni, and I wouldn't change that for all the money in the world.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

You probably couldn't do yourself justice in finding a good litter, because you don't know enough and you are running from pillar to post. Try finding someone you respect for their knowledge of the breed and breeders, engage them, trust them, and listen to them.....your odds of getting a nice pup will be greatly increased.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Who are the breeders you are confused about? If you post them publicly here, anyone who has experience with them will post their good experience or PM you for a bad one. I know how confusing everything is when you first start out, but personal recommendations can mean a lot.

In the end, though, all puppies are a crapshoot, as others have said. At this stage of the game, bloodline and pedigree is not as important as choosing the right puppy, and the right breeder is instrumental in helping you make the right choice. Whether you go with show or working lines, the most important thing is finding a breeder you can trust.

All other things being equal, I'd pick a breeder who is fairly local to you, so you can pay them a visit and actually see the dogs. And all other things being equal, I'd pick the breeder who is happy to talk with you at length, answer your questions, and be there for help and advice. Breeders can be busy people so you'll have to work around their schedule no matter what, but some are always willing to help, and others can't be bothered. 

It's a delicate balance between learning from someone and wasting someone's time, so some breeders might not want to invest a lot of time with you if you are just "thinking" about buying a pup from them. Take this into consideration, but don't buy from anyone that makes you feel uncomfortable or discourages you from asking questions. Personalities differ greatly; some folks feel that answering questions helps educate the public, and whether you buy a pup from them or not, they feel that educating a person is time well spent. Others experience time as a precious commodity and are simply not able to give it to every Tom, Richard and Harry that calls in to ask about pups if they are not serious about buying. Remember to tell the breeder you are a newbie and have lots to learn. Be courteous and respectful, yet direct and to the point. Sometimes it helps if you write down the questions you have.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't think puppies are a crap shot-I think its important to decide whats important to you -and what you like -meet and talk to thebreeders and then go from there


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Not everyone is going to be 100% satisfied so when I read reviews online about anything I throw out the high and low reviews and go with the most consistent


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

Stosh said:


> Not everyone is going to be 100% satisfied so when I read reviews online about anything I throw out the high and low reviews and go with the most consistent


That has been my biggest concern. Is the negative info I am given tainted because of one or so bad deals and even then what were the circumstances... or is it a true representation of the situation. Most of the time the negitive info I have is second or third hand.

No business is going to give a negative reference so its still limiting. I guess at the end of the day because I am so new, I will have to do the best I can. 

I need to be resolved in the fact that I have researched, asked for references, will be going to visit the dogs and kennels, have talked with the breeder a number of times, and that they are open to me having pick of the litter and bring my trainer with me. 

I asked...

I was wondering, if we place a deposit down soon on one of the pups would that give us pic of the litter? What I mean is, can we come to your kennels and pick out the best dog for us with you and possibly our trainer?



> Yes, that is the best idea because it puts you top of the list. We will be working together while the litter is growing and different personalities develop and which ones seem to be the best for family.
> I do so many baby tests to see which puppies are good for drug searches or sport or police or family. We start at 4 weeks. Their search drive and problem solving abilities start to show at about 6 weeks. Activity level is very evident by 8 weeks. We don't make mistakes and put a laid back house dog in a Search and rescue home or a maniac in a family home.


At the end of the day, I just need to try really hard and have faith that I did my homework and just simply do the best I can. If we have problems (most people do have issues with stuff at one point or another) then we will have to cross that bridge one way or another. If it works out good... then they have a customer (sounds kind of icky) for life. If it doesnt go the way it should and there are problems then I will have learned what and how to handle things better in the future.


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> You probably couldn't do yourself justice in finding a good litter, because you don't know enough and you are running from pillar to post. Try finding someone you respect for their knowledge of the breed and breeders, engage them, trust them, and listen to them.....your odds of getting a nice pup will be greatly increased.


I agree with Cliff on this one!! One must be patient and not just jump at the first litter that comes available


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I guess I don't see what's wrong with their reply?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

One can over analyze to much as well.

A good breeder is going to listen to what YOU want in and out of a dog, and hopefully be able to pick a puppy that will fit into your lifestyle / what you want and don't want.

With that, if I were you, I'd start by making a list..what you want in a dog, what you don't want..(high energy/low energy, do you want to do sports? etc) and STICK to your list.

Does your trainer have experience in picking puppies? Maybe so, but I would think a good breeder having lived with those puppies for xx number of weeks, could be better picking what you want.

Maybe they'll be a few in a litter that would be a good match for you, the breeder will say ok x y or z would be good for you, which one do 'you' want? 

I am one who is going to rely on that breeder for input and while it CAN be stressful, make you wonder if you picked the right breeder/the right puppy, like you said, you have to be able to trust 'who' your getting that dog from.

And it's true, I'm sure all breeders have had a disgruntled buyer at one point for whatever reason. Doesn't make them bad breeders

I think you should check out breeders in your area, meet them, meet their dogs, you don't have to make a decision right now, just get out there and go see what you can that is in your area and go from there.


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## LaneyB (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi Narny,

I have put a deposit on a puppy here in Michigan. I decided on a breeder by reading many reviews on here and other german shepherd websites, and calling many breeders. One thing that became very clear to me pretty quickly was that my price range was too low for reputable breeders in my area. After talking to multiple breeders on the phone one stood out for me. She seemed to have more knowledge about the breed in general, and asked me more questions about our lifestyle, etc. She also invited us to come meet her dogs and see her training facility. I have been impressed so far, and I think (I hope!)I made a good decision. 

I also do like the fact that she lives close enough to me that we can take the puppy to her place for training. 

There were quite a few breeders I talked to that for me raised some red flags. One that was recommended to me by people I know did not really ask any questions about what I was looking for personality and activity wise. She kept asking what I wanted the dog to look like. She also didn't want me to come and meet her dogs, and told me I could come once the puppies were ready. I really wanted to meet some of the dogs first, because I felt I would want a puppy once I saw it and might not make as good of a choice if the puppy was right before me.

The litter I am getting a puppy from is due in April, so I will have my new puppy in June!


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I guess I don't see what's wrong with their reply?


There is nothing wrong with the reply at all imo. I was just quoting it so you all would know it was direct and verbatim. 



NarysDad said:


> I agree with Cliff on this one!! One must be patient and not just jump at the first litter that comes available


I agree with this too... I have been looking for a gsd breeder for 2 years now and up till now I hadnt picked one. I thought I was totally in line with the breeder I picked and then I get told that they arent good breeders and there are horror stories etc. but nothing first hand other than one fraud report years ago... so I hesitated about my choice but havent completely discounted them yet.



JakodaCD OA said:


> One can over analyze to much as well.
> 
> A good breeder is going to listen to what YOU want in and out of a dog, and hopefully be able to pick a puppy that will fit into your lifestyle / what you want and don't want.
> 
> ...


This is my other concern... am I over thinking this? lol I am sure that to some degree I am, I am almost certain my husband thinks so lol. I just really need to breath and realize that as of now, nothing is set in stone. If I go to the breeders kennel and its deplorable then I can easily change my mind and go a different way. The breeder seems very open and forth coming on what to expect and not to expect, even to go as far and say that none of the dogs in this litter may be the right dog only time will tell. 

I also liked how its a we situation in there response. Its not "me and what I am going to do", it us and how we will decide what the right dog is. They know very well (I made it clear) that I do not want to get more dog than my family can handle so I think that gives them a very clear indicator as to how we feel about this and are not going to over shoot at the detriment of the dog.

Thank you so much for the advice. Its helped me to calm down and make sure I ask the right questions... from both the person telling me the negative things and the breeder.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think we ALL overthink stuff, I know whenever I'm going to get a new puppy, with every single one, I made a decision, and was a nervous wreck the entire time, wondering if I made the "right" decision. 

My problem is, there are TOO MANY dogs I WANT out there and to many breeders I would LOVE to get one from..

I like that she has said what she's said. If it's the breeder you mentioned before, I know Renee here on the board is good friends with her, and I would "trust" Renee's word .

I would go meet her, meet the dogs, form your own opinion after that


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Narny said:


> but nothing first hand other than one fraud report years ago...


Wait... fraud report??


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I always think you have to first decide what type of dog you want, than you find a breeder that produces that type of dog, than you let the breeder pick a puppy for you, if I'm trusting a breeder to sell me a puppy, I'm trusting them to select the best one for me, based on exactly what I told them I wanted. 

I think sometimes we tend to over analyze and make things harder than they are, of course this is just my opinion.


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

Freestep said:


> Wait... fraud report??


Sorry it wasnt a fraud report it was a ripoff report.


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I think we ALL overthink stuff, I know whenever I'm going to get a new puppy, with every single one, I made a decision, and was a nervous wreck the entire time, wondering if I made the "right" decision.
> 
> I like that she has said what she's said. If it's the breeder you mentioned before, I know Renee here on the board is good friends with her, and I would "trust" Renee's word .
> 
> I would go meet her, meet the dogs, form your own opinion after that


I think that is what I am doing to some degree... over thinking it a little bit. I felt like it was just such a major blow. Thought I had found the perfect breeder for me and then this bomb landed. lol 

Thank you for the advice, thats what I plan to do actually.



LARHAGE said:


> I always think you have to first decide what type of dog you want, than you find a breeder that produces that type of dog, than you let the breeder pick a puppy for you, if I'm trusting a breeder to sell me a puppy, I'm trusting them to select the best one for me, based on exactly what I told them I wanted.
> 
> I think sometimes we tend to over analyze and make things harder than they are, of course this is just my opinion.


I agree with you... after I calmed down and just started asking questions I was able to think through the problems and able to ask more questions that would help make the right decision.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

does the breeder have to be local? what breeders do you
have an interest in? list them. people can pm you if they have
something negative to say about a breeder. if you have an open
time range when you want your pup that will help because
you don't need to rush into anything. actually don't rush. take your
time, ask a lot of questions, go to shows and check out a lot of breeders.
don't worry that perfect pup is waiting for you and you'll find
him/her.


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

I totally feel for you! It seems that I have been in the same boat. I keep going back and forth between breeders trying to decide which lines and breeders are producing the type of puppy I'm looking for. My problem is I live in the middle of nowhere in the upper midwest. We don't have breeders locally we can just drive out and meet in person.

Currently I have my list narrowed down to two breeders and I just need to be honest with myself with what type of dog I really want. Then it's up to me to put my trust into one of them and let them guide me the rest of the way.

Good luck to you. I wish you the best in your puppy search. I am certain all this frustration and hard work you're putting into your research will eventually pay off for you.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well as someone posted not every owner from a breeder is going to be 100% happy, and dogs/puppies can be a crap shoot! A breeder can't guarantee everything to be perfect when your dealing with 8 week olds.

My feeling is, 1 ripoff report, how many are HAPPY with this breeder and their dogs? Now if there were a higher percentage of unhappy customers, that would concern me, but the higher perecentage of happy customers is what I'd go with.

Ask for previous buyer contacts, if this is a repeat breeding, ask to speak to owners of that breeding and see if they like or dislike how those puppies turned out


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## Ingrid (Aug 29, 2010)

Best wishes in your search! Keep in mind when reading breeder reviews that there is always going to be that person(s) whose expectations will never be met. That kind of puppy buyer is better off purchasing one of these: : )


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## Rebecky (Mar 20, 2012)

*Looking for Breeder in ND -- Ranch Dog?*



sddeadeye said:


> I totally feel for you! It seems that I have been in the same boat. I keep going back and forth between breeders trying to decide which lines and breeders are producing the type of puppy I'm looking for. My problem is I live in the middle of nowhere in the upper midwest. We don't have breeders locally we can just drive out and meet in person.
> 
> Currently I have my list narrowed down to two breeders and I just need to be honest with myself with what type of dog I really want. Then it's up to me to put my trust into one of them and let them guide me the rest of the way.
> 
> Good luck to you. I wish you the best in your puppy search. I am certain all this frustration and hard work you're putting into your research will eventually pay off for you.


Too Funny....I just joined this group and I'm also in North Dakota. The poster is right -- not too many breeders in this area. I found one in Montana, then found lots of "be ware" posts on the web, so I'm still looking. 

I know about the different lines but I'm still confused. I want a family companion & ranch dog. I don't need a herding dog, but one that would watch a gate would be nice. Also must get along with cattle, horses, cats, chickens and an old, bossy Jack Russell terrier. My one and only GSD died in Aug 2010 and I still miss her. She taught the JRT she was boss without hurting him, she left the cats alone and I kept the chickens locked up.  She let us know when someone was coming -- way before we could see or hear them. She never bit anyone and most people learned she wouldn't, but if they were at all afraid of dogs, she kept up the bluff until we told her to quiet. 

So, what type of breeder should I look for? I'm worried that I couldn't trust a working-line dog to be alone...they might get bored and entertain themselves with cats or chickens or calves. BTW, I mean an adult dog....I know you have to have pups with you or have them confined. 

My GSD was probably a backyard American line. She was a rescue dog -- I was her 4th owner in 3 years. She was on a chain in a backyard in town, but she really bonded with us and took over as ranch guardian. She slept inside in the winter, but she liked to be outside at night in the summertime -- she slept underneath my bedroom window. She was inside when we were in, outside when we were out. I should have had her cloned. 

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this post. 

Becky


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Becky, I think one poster already said something I think is important , while you want a good breeder, the dogs involved are important to. Not necessarily a certain "line" because you can most likely find what you want in any line. 

I have always had working lines or a mix of wl, not one of them was a 'critter' killer Of course I don't have farm animals either, but they were all pretty easy keepers. 

My aussies on the other hand, have had more prey drive (kill that critter) than my gsd's ever had/have. 

Ok sorry to hijack this also...I suggest you put your post in Looking for a Breeder section so you can get some hits specific to you


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Becky, I pretty much have everything you have, down to the JRT and barn cats, any line of German Shepherds is going to have puppies capable of living the life you desire, I've had over 10 in my life that have been perfect with livestock and other pets, just select the type you want, and find a good breeder who breeds for true German Shepherd temperament and you'll be fine.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would not overthink the references. When alarm bells go off left and right , well sure..there ARE breeders like that, but I think there are precious few breeders who have not had a disgruntled customer over time and the longer they have been doing it and the more dogs they have bred over the years the higher the chances someone will decide the breeder is an awful person and go on an internet mission to exact revenge. Add to that the breeders who talk down other breeders program...happens all the time and is a big off put for me. It is one thing to say why you don't like a particular breeding but another to simply bash other breeders.

I also think some of it is unrealistic expectations from the buyer that they are buying a machine that has undergone some sort of quality control. A puppy is a complex living breathing thing ...... they do the best they can, then try to pick the best they can but there is no exact science. If you want an exact science you spend the extra money to get a young adult.

And everyone wants warranties. I loved my breeders warranty, but I was not expecting any: "If something is wrong with the dog so that he cannot work, I know you will do the right thing by him, and I will give you a full refund. I am not going to do replacement puppies because I don't breed that much and what I have may not be what you need anyway" .... Well it is written more formally than that but I went with my breeder because I knew her personally, knew her breeding goals, and knew she knew how to work dogs in my discipline. So, there was simply an element of trust.

I think if you find someone you click with, you have seen some of their dogs perhaps, and the breeding looks right for your intended purposes (ask about the pedigree to get some insights, both of the breeder and that is fine I think to post about or PM others about) you just have to take the leap.


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

Rebecky said:


> Too Funny....I just joined this group and I'm also in North Dakota. The poster is right -- not too many breeders in this area. I found one in Montana, then found lots of "be ware" posts on the web, so I'm still looking.
> 
> I know about the different lines but I'm still confused. I want a family companion & ranch dog. I don't need a herding dog, but one that would watch a gate would be nice. Also must get along with cattle, horses, cats, chickens and an old, bossy Jack Russell terrier. My one and only GSD died in Aug 2010 and I still miss her. She taught the JRT she was boss without hurting him, she left the cats alone and I kept the chickens locked up.  She let us know when someone was coming -- way before we could see or hear them. She never bit anyone and most people learned she wouldn't, but if they were at all afraid of dogs, she kept up the bluff until we told her to quiet.
> 
> ...


Welcome! It's great to see another Nodak on the boards. We have horses too...well currently just one as I sold off our other two before I was deployed.

I think I know which breeder you are speaking of in MT and I would suggest staying away from them. There is also a breeder in ND that I know several dogs from and would definitely not recommend anyone go there either. Both breeders I am considering would require me to have my puppy shipped. Now it is just up to me to decide if I want a working or showline. 

I agree with the others though. Dogs that fit your needs can be found in any of the lines. It just comes down to finding the right breeder who can match you up with a good pup.


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## badcalorie (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm in Montana and there are several out on the west side of the state that I would be wary of, two in particular stand out. I was not impressed after asking around, meeting the breeders, etc. There are several good ones I know of in Washington and one in Idaho. You might consider looking out that direction if its not too far. Finding the right pup and meeting the right people is more than worth the drive.


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