# 7 mo, tape/glue/form not helping



## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Right, so I don't usually fret about ears. They do their own thing. I sit back and chuckle when people freak out about down ears on a 2 month old, even a five month old. But I got a pick bitch for show and breeding and at seven months old her left ear is not up.

I let it do its thing up until about 5 months, at which point I glued them. "DON'T GLUE IT!" said the breeder (with whom I will no longer be doing business for a myriad of reasons, lack of communication and support first and foremost). I followed her advice and took them apart the next day. At six months I started taping w/foam rollers, just in the left ear. Then I made a leather insert. Then, after weeks of no improvement, I went back to gluing.
Two weeks later, nothing is better. When they come apart the ear either goes straight down or stays up for no more than 10-15 minutes. Her base is strong, her leather is thick, and she's using it well. No crease. Her right is up and steady, has been for a long time. Left ear was down longer than right, but at one point it was up... only for a few days. When it is down it is either flying nun to the outside or flat forward like a lab at attention.

She had bite issues (overbite), so I attributed the down ear to an incorrect chewing/gnawing motion. Now her bite has mostly resolved and she is way past teething. She has excellent nutrition, gets raw meaty bones every evening and is never without something to chew on. No underlying health conditions. I even was a bad dad and gave her chewable puppy vitamins for some extra calcium for these past few weeks; no change. Both parents have proper ear carriage. This is a re-breeding, the puppies from the last breeding all have correct carriage. There was one other puppy from her litter with a down ear, but her's was fixed with taping for two weeks (or that may be an exaggeration or fabrication by the breeder).

Other than being at the end of my tether with her breeder, what else can I do? She's got a replacement clause, but I'd prefer not to use it. I love my girl. I obviously can't show her with a down ear, and although I technically *could* breed a down ear dog I won't put her in my program if this doesn't resolve.

At the moment I have moleskin in just the left ear, but it's still flopping. When I tape the whole thing from base to tip she freaks out and won't stop scratching at it, but if I have to put a cone on her I will. Should I try bridging with a popsicle stick even though her right is solid?

Any help appreciated.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Well I was hoping for a bit more response than I've seen so far...

I purchased the 'official' ear forms today, they should be here in a week or so. Does ANYONE else have ANY insight on this?


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Have you done a search on her on ears? I know I've commented on several threads on this. When you get the ear forms you will need surgical glue to put them in (Perm A type comes to mind). 

Make sure the ears are clean and dry. Have a bully stick or something she loves to chew on when you do it. You will need help the first time. Put the glue on the ear and the form. Hold it a good 60 seconds, a little longer if you can. It will be totally dry in 5 minutes but you don't need to hold it the entire time. she will run around and try to get them off which is the purpose of the bully stick to distract. After a few minutes she will settle down.

Make sure you get it done in the ear far enough that it will stand erect. Often when doing both ears they will point outward and need to be taped around the top the first 24 hours.

Leave them in until they fall out. You will need to re-glue the edges as they come loose. Leave in a good 3 weeks if you can. Leave out until the ear either stays up or falls again. If it falls redo immediately. Note they aren't as fussy once they get use to it. To remove it yourself use surgical glue remover.

Supplement with Solid Gold Seameal. Good luck!


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

i would use tear mender and glue again...and when they come undone...glue again..it has worked with my pup now 7 months. he had the floppiest softest ears ever..ive postede alot on the ear threads about him with lots of pictures. the tape never worked with him nor did the foam inserts or breathe right strips..only thing that works for us is tear mender glue and gluing the into a teepee


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

What am I searching for when you say "search on her ears"?

I'm familiar with forms, I made my own leather one. I use surgical adhesive and am familiar with the process. The only difference is now I'm buying the 'pre-made' ones... I hope they'll be a more effective design than hardened leather.
If the forms don't work I guess I'll go back to gluing. She's missing most of the hair on her ears at this point, maybe while the forms are in it will have a chance to grow back.

I'll definitely try seameal! Thanks!


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

At the top of the page (just under user CP) there is a search engine. Type in ear forms and it should pull up the threads that have info in them. It sound like you are set though!
Good luck!


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> At the top of the page (just under user CP) there is a search engine. Type in ear forms and it should pull up the threads that have info in them. It sound like you are set though!
> Good luck!


Oooh yeah, I've read through pages and pages of the 'Ears Up??????' forum, lol. And I'm completely familiar with the search abilities on the board. Like I said, I've never been an ear-worrier up until this dog. I've never had one who didn't have both up successfully by 5 months at the absolute latest... stressful! Thanks again for your tip with the seameal. I'm picking some up this evening.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I understand!  I forgot to mention to ease into the seameal, if you start with the full amount you may get loose stool. I'd go with 1/4 a couple of days, then to 1/2 a couple days etc.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Put the left ear form in a few minutes ago. Seameal will be started on Monday... fingers crossed this is the last time I'll ever have to post in this particular part of the forum, lol.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

All I know is this, the breeders at my club that know their lines don't have the strongest of ears pretty much tape the pups at 3-4 months no matter what. They just don't take the risk of them not standing by 6-7 months. Don't know if you saw the parents or know the breeder, but its usually easy to tell when ears are soft and the lines have trouble with them standing by themselves. I hope it all works out for you, but I'd tape asap and see what happens.


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## 0pusX (Jul 21, 2012)

This Seal Meal Supplement, is it a pill you give or how do you get them to eat it?

Also, what does it do for the ears?

Thanks!!


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

martemchik said:


> All I know is this, the breeders at my club that know their lines don't have the strongest of ears pretty much tape the pups at 3-4 months no matter what. They just don't take the risk of them not standing by 6-7 months. Don't know if you saw the parents or know the breeder, but its usually easy to tell when ears are soft and the lines have trouble with them standing by themselves. I hope it all works out for you, but I'd tape asap and see what happens.


Y'know, that was my initial understanding. It was with GREAT misgiving that I trusted my (incredibly well-known) breeder and did NOT mess with the ears until after 5 months. At 7 months now I regret this very much. At least by following her directions I still have the replacement clause intact.

As for the seameal, I haven't opened the container yet. It sounds like either very small pills or a powder.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

It is a powder supplement you mix with their food (kelp, flaxseed, b12 and a few other ingredients). I have breeder friend that recommends it anytime puppies ears are not up by 4.5 months.


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## 0pusX (Jul 21, 2012)

I assume I have to mix it with soft food.... What kind of soft food is good?


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Well that was an absolute failure... she kept scratching at her ear to the point of drawing blood and got the form out during the night when I was asleep. She didn't chew it up, but I'm definitely not putting it back in. Ear is still down.

This is $%&#*[email protected] infuriating. Thanks for the help, y'all. (< that isn't sarcastic, I really do appreciate it and it's all that's keeping me sane on this issue) I need to go put myself in a corner and calm down before I take another look at her ears. :/


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

rooandtree said:


> i would use tear mender and glue again...and when they come undone...glue again..it has worked with my pup now 7 months. he had the floppiest softest ears ever..ive postede alot on the ear threads about him with lots of pictures. the tape never worked with him nor did the foam inserts or breathe right strips..only thing that works for us is tear mender glue and gluing the into a teepee


Hi. , is the tear mender you are referring to the same as the tear mender in the craft section for fabrics? Does it effect the hair on their ears were you put the tear mentor.? Nala is five and half months, teething like crazy , right ear is up occaionaly but left is very floppy .. I am thinking of glueing if not up by september 15 which would make her six months old. Thanks.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Yes. Tearmender is a leather glue. It will pull out all the hair on the glue site, but hair grows back. If the ears are both up they will probably both be back up by the end of teething.


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

m1953 said:


> Hi. , is the tear mender you are referring to the same as the tear mender in the craft section for fabrics? Does it effect the hair on their ears were you put the tear mentor.? Nala is five and half months, teething like crazy , right ear is up occaionaly but left is very floppy .. I am thinking of glueing if not up by september 15 which would make her six months old. Thanks.





marbury said:


> Yes. Tearmender is a leather glue. It will pull out all the hair on the glue site, but hair grows back. If the ears are both up they will probably both be back up by the end of teething.


Thanks very much. Right ear has been up occasionally before and during teething. Left ear has rarely been up, only up when she is waiting on alert so to speak for her ball to be thrown.


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

if you buy the medical adhesive remover online..mine is called detachol...it takes off the tear mender without removing much hair. My dog would not let me use anything else on or in his ears,no foam inserts,tape anything..but glueing them in a teepee with tear mender never bothered him...one ear is up for good..the other is 3/4 up..its working great for him


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

here are some photos of the progress with tear mender before...after...with the glue in and now


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

Thanks ver much. Zeus is looking great


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

On your third pic roundtree it looks like you have the back of zues' lest ear glued on the edge to the inside edge of the right ear.. Is that how you glued them? Thanks.


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

i put glue on one ear from tip to base..and then i press and hold ears together as hes licking his king with peanut butter..takes like 45 seconds and they stay together...the 3rd pic was when they were glued for a few weeks and had shifted some which is why it looks like back os glued..but it was only front inside edge


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

Thanks roundtree...just ordered the detachol on amazon.


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

our welcome and good luck! fingers crossed for you


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

One more question, how long does tear mender hold there ears together before it stops holding? Thanks again


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

with Zeus it would last 1 to 2 weeks and then i would glue again...sometimes id give him a break in between if it looked like they were standing..but once they started to flop again id glue right back...but ive been told it might of been better to have just kept gluing for a few months straight


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

Good deal, thanks.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Updates! I moved onto the kennel property I'm managing and Lexi now has a large playgroup and run outdoors. She fence-chases the dogs in the runs beside her and it has made ALL the difference. That, and Flintstone vitamins. I kid you not! I was showing with an Australian Cattle Dog pro handler and told her of my plight. She loved my bitch and recommended Flintstone vitamins, two a day. She's still got a slightly weak ear and it is down in the mornings, but with no tape or glue or anything the fact that it's nearly up or up most of the day is astounding.

Lesson learned; 8 hours of constant stimulation per day WILL get an ear up!


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

marbury said:


> Updates! I moved onto the kennel property I'm managing and Lexi now has a large playgroup and run outdoors. She fence-chases the dogs in the runs beside her and it has made ALL the difference. That, and Flintstone vitamins. I kid you not! I was showing with an Australian Cattle Dog pro handler and told her of my plight. She loved my bitch and recommended Flintstone vitamins, two a day. She's still got a slightly weak ear and it is down in the mornings, but with no tape or glue or anything the fact that it's nearly up or up most of the day is astounding.
> 
> Lesson learned; 8 hours of constant stimulation per day WILL get an ear up!


How old is she? Nala is six months today. I have the forms and tear mendor but have not put them in yet. The last of her molars are just breaking through and was hoping they may still go up there on. Like your pup right is up sometimes left hardly at all except when waiting for the ball to be thrown  I am happy your pups ears are up


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Lexi is now 8 months old. I hope your pup gets 'em up good and strong! I will not lie, I didn't have much hope for my girl at seven months. It's new territory for me and am surprised to see progress at this late age.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

When pup was having floppy tip on one ear, my breeder told me to use surgical cement and foam inserts she cut out herself. The surgical cement goes in, bonds with the foam inserts, and stays on. I only had one floppy ear, but she told me to tape both because they DO scratch if only one is taped, but won't notice either if they are both taped. Though her ears are more up now, I would still GLUE to give it the extra support it needs to stay standing. I did this when pup was 7ish months old as well. I kept it on for 2-3 WEEKS, and only took it off when it basically fell off and was dragging down the ear.

I also added plain gelatin to her food to help with her ears, and like you, gave TONS of chews.

Though, I should add, her ears were completely up in her younger months.


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

Marbury, very happy for you that your pup has made progress at this late stage. It gives me a lot of hope. My breeder is still telling me not to worry as some of Nala's brothers and sisters are still are not up either and he never had a pup whose ears did not stand. Nala seems to be a late teether too.. At six months still has some molars just breaking through. 
It is really funny cause were out on a long 4 mile hike this morning, throwing the ball along the way and Nala,s ears were up most of the time..I have all the forms and tear mender but I am going to wait a few more weeks especially after hearing your experience.. Like you even though I have a clause in my contract on ears, I would not return her in a million years.


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## Queenie Ga (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi Queenie was born April 2012 and her ears were up when we got her at 17 weeks then within a week they dropped both of them, we panicked and use tear mender glue for 9 days , removed glue next day they dropped again, and finally decided to give them time and i went out and gave her calcium tablets, purchased at Petsmart, and the following week she started loosing baby teeth all at once and within 3 weeks later both ears are erect and fully standing. Our advice is allow the Pup to go through the normal process, Results a happy owner


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

Queenie Ga said:


> Hi Queenie was born April 2012 and her ears were up when we got her at 17 weeks then within a week they dropped both of them, we panicked and use tear mender glue for 9 days , removed glue next day they dropped again, and finally decided to give them time and i went out and gave her calcium tablets, purchased at Petsmart, and the following week she started loosing baby teeth all at once and within 3 weeks later both ears are erect and fully standing. Our advice is allow the Pup to go through the normal process, Results a happy owner


My breeder said the same thing a month or so ago, but Nala is 6 months old now and while she is still cutting a half doezen or so molars, I am getting concerned.. They are up when we are playing ball or she is on alert, but the rest of the time totally flopped.. I have all the stuff to glue, but trying to hold off till her adult teeth finish coming in.


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

The right ear form fell out after 8 days..the left is still in. Her right ear stayed up for five day until today and is now starting to flop again. I used detachol to get some of the tear mender off but it's not coming off real well at all. Any suggestions, I don't want to irritate her ears and am not sure I want to put anymore tear mender on to re glue


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## 0pusX (Jul 21, 2012)

Queenie, did the calcium tablets help? Are they safe?


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