# Dealing with a rude breeder...



## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Not sure if this is in the right spot.

The breeder I was going to get a dog from previously, is being plain out rude.

I had a deposit down for a puppy, but the breeder ended up emailing me saying she wasn't pregnant - two weeks before the due date.

She tried to convince me to buy a puppy from a male of hers that I really liked, but the bitch was her friends and she wouldnt supply me with a pedigree or anything.

I wasn't interested in any of her other litters, so I told her I was going to look around, and if she would send me my deposit back (she had previously stated in TWO emails, one when i first contacted her, and the other when she let me know the female wasnt pregnant - that she would refund me). At first she tried to tell me she didnt refund it, but then I forwarded her those emails from her saying she would.

So, after i said that she became really snotty for whatever reason, and claimed she would mail the check back.

Well, its been near 3 weeks. She is only 2 hours south of me. So I have no idea how it would take that long. I emailed her about it and she is just being rude about the whole situation and says she mailed the check, contacted the bank, and said she wasnt going to mail me two checks. 

WTF do I do in this situation??


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

You just paid for a life lesson. Sounds like its time to move on and hopefully your next deposit will be with a reputable breeder whom you've spent time with and talked to proud owners and feel comfortable with.

Sorry dude.

Also, just read of the diagnosis and progress of your other pup. Great to hear.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

RocketDog said:


> You just paid for a life lesson. Sounds like its time to move on and hopefully your next deposit will be with a reputable breeder whom you've spent time with and talked to proud owners and feel comfortable with.
> 
> Sorry dude.


Yeah, i'm afraid so huh.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

It would likely cost you more to get it back if you even could, than the deposit you paid. Concentrate on the little darling you have.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

RocketDog said:


> You just paid for a life lesson. Sounds like its time to move on and hopefully your next deposit will be with a reputable breeder whom you've spent time with and talked to proud owners and feel comfortable with.


Why just walk away? 
Send her a certified letter (return receipt requested) and tell her if your deposit isn't returned within 10 days you're going to take her to small claims court, and then do it. Add all court costs to the claim.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Shady, shady business going on there. Three weeks and still no check... somethings up.

What did the bank tell her when she contacted them? Tell her to just cancel that check and send you another. It's really no big deal if those were her true intentions.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Even if you win in SCC, that doesn't mean the money appears. Just like parking tickets-- lots of people don't pay em and they don't "come after" you if you don't.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

RocketDog said:


> You just paid for a life lesson. Sounds like its time to move on and hopefully your next deposit will be with a reputable breeder whom you've spent time with and talked to proud owners and feel comfortable with.
> 
> Sorry dude.
> 
> Also, just read of the diagnosis and progress of your other pup. Great to hear.


I agree. 

This is one of the many reasons we recommend doing so much research about the breed and BREEDERS before picking one and putting that money down. To me, when it comes down to it I'm not really paying for a puppy. I'm paying for the BREEDER and their background/experience with a type of dog I want and giving myself the best chance to get that dog.

Truthfully, the money may be well spent for the experience and fact you did NOT end up with one of their dogs. If you are having trouble with them and you don't even have a puppy, who knows the issues and problems that may have occurred with a puppy you got from them...

aw:


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

RocketDog said:


> Even if you win in SCC, that doesn't mean the money appears. Just like parking tickets-- lots of people don't pay em and they don't "come after" you if you don't.


That's true, but a notice that you're being sued in small claims court can be a good motivator and if there's judgement, it goes on her credit report. Always worth a try.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

You have more faith in the moral soundness of this breeder (or maybe just people in general) than I do.  People who would care about their credit report would have the refund in the mail immediately without issue, methinks.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

I'd go to small claims court. You have your emails, right? If you do, it's going to be decided in your favor. Any reputable breeder is going to follow through with what they told you, and they won't want a negative report. You can contact the BBB to file a complaint, too. We depend on oral and written contracts when purchasing things. These pups are no different. If the breeder is counting on you to drop it, I'd do the opposite. I'm confident that if something goes wrong with my new pup, my breeder will do what she needs to in order to make things right.


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## JimX (Aug 9, 2012)

Jag said:


> I'd go to small claims court. You have your emails, right? If you do, it's going to be decided in your favor. Any reputable breeder is going to follow through with what they told you, and they won't want a negative report. You can contact the BBB to file a complaint, too. We depend on oral and written contracts when purchasing things. These pups are no different. If the breeder is counting on you to drop it, I'd do the opposite. I'm confident that if something goes wrong with my new pup, my breeder will do what she needs to in order to make things right.


What Jag said.

I've had to file against one of my previous roommates who refused to pay rent. As long as you have the paperwork/emails to prove it, you'll be OK. I highly recommend this.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Sometimes stuff DOES get lost in the mail, tho not sticking up for them if they said they would refund.

I would play the 'lawyer" card as you do have proof..I would also give them a time frame.

If I do not receive refund by xxx (and I"d give them 2 more weeks),,than you'll be hearing from my lawyer.


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Why just walk away?
> Send her a certified letter (return receipt requested) and tell her if your deposit isn't returned within 10 days you're going to take her to small claims court, and then do it. Add all court costs to the claim.


I have to agree with this one. If she doesn't respond, go ahead and take her to SC court.

Make sure you document everything...print out emails, write down all contact, even attempts to contact. Just state the facts.

You don't need an atty to do small claims. Just have all of your paperwork together, documentation, and be prepared to go to court. Be objective and professional...this is a business transaction. 

In our state, small claims is relatively simple...You go to the clerk of court, fill out small claims paperwork...attach documentation, then have it filed. The Sheriffs dept will deliver the summons to her. total cost here is about $60. 

The clerk will set a court date upon filing. At the time of court, the magistrate will hear from both parties and make a ruling right then. In your initial written complaint, ask that you be able to recover any court costs and filing fees in addition to the dog deposit as well.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

RocketDog said:


> You just paid for a life lesson. Sounds like its time to move on and hopefully your next deposit will be with a reputable breeder whom you've spent time with and talked to proud owners and feel comfortable with.
> 
> Sorry dude.
> 
> Also, just read of the diagnosis and progress of your other pup. Great to hear.


learned a life lesson? you walk into court, file small claims, get your judgement, then hope she pays.

or sit and do nothing and get nothing.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

I see someone already recommended this. But forgo the lawyer stuff, send the letter, you have x days to refund my money in full as agreed to previously on *whatever date it was emailed* if not a claim will be filed with X court.

Then when the check is there, cash it and wait for it to clear and thank them for honoring their commitment. If it isn't, go file the claim and you'll win. Easy as that.

oh and here you pay for the initial filing, if you win, the loser is responsible for that fee as well.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

oh and wait several weeks before you consider it solved after you deposit the check, just to make sure that she doesn't stop payment on you. Or, if there is a branch of that bank in your area, go there and get it cashed. That way you have money in hand and she can't reverse it.


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

Did she say when she would mail the check? If she just had a bout of bad luck she may have (not smartly!) spent it on vet expenses, etc., and her attitude may be partly out of frustration that she knows she promised it but doesn't have it right now. I would first ask her nicely when she expects she will have it, as you understand she isn't any wealthier than you are, blah blah blah...

Then, gauge her response and see if it sounds like she's going to be ethical or not. THEN, drop court and lawyer threats. I don't think 2 weeks, especially if you weren't told it was going in the mail that day is really that unreasonable...yet.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I don't know why so many people roll over and play dead when breeders do things like this. Certified letter, court. You will win easily if you have emails from her with her stating she will refund if the female did not become pregnant. She'll also have to pay court costs. Take your money elsewhere.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

If the deposit is only a couple/three hundred dollars, it will be more headache to get it back. Certified letter threatening SCC isn't too expensive, but the rest of this _assumes_ the breeder is, as someone above stated, '....a responsible breeder....' If the breeder were a responsible breeder, none of this would've happened. Did anyone actually read the first post? The breeder offered a pup from a bitch that wasn't hers with _no papers or pedigree. After _telling the OP TWO WEEKS before the due date (don't "responsible breeders" have ultrasounds well before a due date two weeks away?) the bitch wasn't pregnant.......This does NOT suggest responsible breeder, and no offense to the OP, smells backyard breeder-ish. Not someone willing to be honest or ethical. The breeder has already said they're done with the issue, so it will be a fight of one sort or another to continue. 

Only the OP can decide if the deposit is enough to make them pursue the headache. I know they have other issues on their plate right now--either way, good luck to the OP.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

I would also contact your local police department. Its theft of money and you have a right to report it especially when you have a writte letter, email and proof that she had no litter for you and stated she would refund your money. Then your local can contact this breeder and tell her to pay you back. Just being contacted by a LEO may get her refunding you quickly.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

No...I'm very sure it isn't....I do believe that there are 2 different breeders....


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

NO pedigree or papers? I read that to mean she didn't offer the information, not that they didn't have any. I guess I wasn't thinking that the OP was talking about a breeder who was THAT backwoods.  Are you sure that's correct that the friend's bitch wasn't even registered? I really thought it just meant the breeder wasn't forthcoming with full information that would've helped the buyer decide. 

Either way, I don't get it. Any of it. I don't see what's so hard about telling someone when you'll have their money back to them. 

p.s. Not ultrasounding doesn't equate to a backyard breeder. That's a bit silly.


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

Gilly1331 said:


> I would also contact your local police department. Its theft of money and you have a right to report it especially when you have a writte letter, email and proof that she had no litter for you and stated she would refund your money. Then your local can contact this breeder and tell her to pay you back. Just being contacted by a LEO may get her refunding you quickly.


IMO, it's going to be a civil matter. They will most likely suggest she go to small claims court. Contractual matters and disputes are generally handled through civil process.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

KatsMuse said:


> IMO, it's going to be a civil matter. They will most likely suggest she go to small claims court. Contractual matters and disputes are generally handled through civil process.


That's correct.

The reason I'd just take this as a life lesson and move on is that MY TIME is worth more than the money I'd eventually (months and months and months) get back (if lucky). 

As well as the anger and frustration that would keep rearing it's ugly head every time I had to deal with the issue. I have better things to do with my life (and my NEW PUPPY) then dwell in the past and with emotions that only bring me down.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

vom Eisenherz said:


> NO pedigree or papers? I read that to mean she didn't offer the information, not that they didn't have any. I guess I wasn't thinking that the OP was talking about a breeder who was THAT backwoods.  Are you sure that's correct that the friend's bitch wasn't even registered? I really thought it just meant the breeder wasn't forthcoming with full information that would've helped the buyer decide.
> 
> Either way, I don't get it. Any of it. I don't see what's so hard about telling someone when you'll have their money back to them.
> 
> p.s. Not ultrasounding doesn't equate to a backyard breeder. That's a bit silly.


That's what I meant. The breeder said the OP could buy a pup from this friend of hers, but refused to show the OP the pedigree, and it didn't sound like the OP would receive any papers. I didn't SAY the breeder WAS a backyard breeder. It's just everyone assumes this breeder is a "responsible" breeder--where as I see everything pointing to an "irresponsible" breeder. You know what they say about opinions and everyone having one....


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. In my eyes, she is very un-professional, based on her treatment of a potential 'customer' after her female failed to produce a litter that I had a deposit on. She tried forcing me to her other litters, even though, yes she did state she would refund me. After looking into this more, and reading on here about what a good breeder is, I was no longer interested, ESPECIALLY after she tried pushing the puppy from a bitch that wasnt even hers. All she said she could supply me with was AKC papers, but what does that tell me?? She couldn't give me a pedigree. I couldn t see where this dog even came from, or what it even was. Not interested to say the least.. Not to mention, I didnt know the temperment, or anything about the bitch. 

Yes, this whole thing is turning into a headache over a couple hundred, and yes, I do have better things to worry about (my sweet Akira) but the deposit WOULD help me with all these vet visits and makes me angry that my money ended up in the hands of a person like her. By no means am I rich, or even close, so a couple hundred put a dent in my bank account, especially when it ended up being to just basically handed to some rude person, for no reason. Yes, should have did more research, I did ALOT, but I guess not enough, but when emailing with her in the beginning,( a couple months ago) she seemed nice, someone who i'd want to work with, etc. Answered everything blah blah blah. Obviously, then I started digging in more, and asking why NO dogs were OFA'd (all on only prelims most done at a very young age) and what not, and then the female lost the litter. Two weeks before said due date. Wouldnt you be able to tell the bitch was pregnant? Im not dog breeder but i'd assume youd be able to atleast tell?? 

My problem is, she cashed my check the moment she recieved it INSTEAD of waiting for the litter to be confirmed/born/whatever. And now is giving me an extremely hard time because I said I was going to 'look around'.

After the rude emails, and unprofessionalism, how would she even expect me to want to do business with her? I dont get people.

And I emailed her yesterday and she told me she contacted her 'bank and attorney' and they told her to wait a month, or I could PAY HER for a stop payment on current check and she would send another. UM, does she care that she has a check out there worth you know, a couple hundred that is just, lost?? And she didnt tell me if someone cashed it, which I asked, because I asked her to ask for an image of the cancellation (when someone cashes it) and IF someone DID cash a check in my name I would like to know bc it is a form of fraud. She just brushed the issue off.

And told me "you could have had a really nice puppy in a couple of weeks from XXMALE but that will not happen (thats the puppy from her male and her friends female). Said she mailed the check july 22.....come on its august 9th now. Then said this "I sent your check back. I am looking out for my best interest. I am not going to pay you twice for one deposit. SORRY".

And when I told her I wanted it back before, she told me her website says non refundable, and she changed it after the fact bc it didnt before, but in her emails to me she said shed refund it. I just get the vibe that shes playing a game here, and didnt send the check, in hopes that ill just forget about it or let it go.

Im sure shes tight on money, she has like 15 dogs mad 
but, I didnt do anything wrong to this lady, I didnt back out, or change my mind, HER dog LOST the LITTER i had the DEPOSIT on.

No reason for her to be acting this way.

VERY glad I didnt end up giving her more of my money and getting a dog from her


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

gsdlover91 said:


> Said she mailed the check july 22.....come on its august 9th now.


To be fair, it IS possible that she sent the check and it's gotten delayed somewhere (though I would also be highly suspicious). I have had this happen to me in the reverse. 

I have an automated payment set up through the bank for my lawn service and have for years. They came to me last month complaining that they had not been payed. I checked with the bank. Check was not cashed and had been mailed 3 weeks ago. They told me that they would not stop payment or re-issue without a significant fee until a full month had passed. So, I decided to wait until I could take care of it without the charge. A couple of days later the check must have arrived because it was cashed by the lawn service. So, it happens.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Sounds like she just plain doesn't have the money. She's stalling.

I'd give another couple weeks for your check to arrive, and if it doesn't, email AND snailmail a letter stating that you're taking her to small claims if the check is not received within 10 days.

Be advised, however, that if you do win in small claims (which you will), there is almost nothing you can do to actually GET the money. You can file for a wage garnishment if she's employed, but if not, all you have is a standing judgement.

Still, I'd do it. I once had to go to small claims to get a deposit back from a landlord, and it wasn't hard to do. I won the judgement and had a check that day. It definitely sends a message, if nothing else. I'd like to see this breeder be put out of business--anyone that unethical is probably not breeding ethically either.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

gsdlover91 said:


> My problem is, *she cashed my check* the moment she recieved it INSTEAD of waiting for the litter to be confirmed/born/whatever. And now is giving me an extremely hard time because I said I was going to 'look around'.
> 
> Then said this *"I sent your check back. I am looking out for my best interest. I am not going to pay you twice for one deposit. SORRY".*


This is very easy to find out if she cashed your check or sent it back. Call your bank and ask for a copy of the check. If the bank has the copy, or record of it being cashed, then she couldn't very well have sent it back.

Then, if you want your money, send her a certified letter that you are to receive your money within 10 days of receipt of the letter. If you don't receive it, then file in small claims.

In some states, they will garnish your wages or set up payments thru the court.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

stealthq said:


> To be fair, it IS possible that she sent the check and it's gotten delayed somewhere (though I would also be highly suspicious). I have had this happen to me in the reverse.
> 
> I have an automated payment set up through the bank for my lawn service and have for years. They came to me last month complaining that they had not been payed. I checked with the bank. Check was not cashed and had been mailed 3 weeks ago. They told me that they would not stop payment or re-issue without a significant fee until a full month had passed. So, I decided to wait until I could take care of it without the charge. A couple of days later the check must have arrived because it was cashed by the lawn service. So, it happens.


This is why I told her I'd wait another week, but if it was lost, or delayed, you'd think she'd be a little nicer, or more concerned...thats why I just get a wierd vibe.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Sounds like she just plain doesn't have the money. She's stalling.
> 
> I'd give another couple weeks for your check to arrive, and if it doesn't, email AND snailmail a letter stating that you're taking her to small claims if the check is not received within 10 days.
> 
> ...


Thats what I was going to do, give it another week or so, until it has been a full month, and then see what her 'bank and attorney' tell her to do then? Yeah i'm not too sure she's the most ethical person out there. Very shady. After researching all this in depth after deciding not to get a puppy from her, boy was I glad. Very unhappy with everything.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> This is very easy to find out if she cashed your check or sent it back. Call your bank and ask for a copy of the check. If the bank has the copy, or record of it being cashed, then she couldn't very well have sent it back.
> 
> Then, if you want your money, send her a certified letter that you are to receive your money within 10 days of receipt of the letter. If you don't receive it, then file in small claims.
> 
> In some states, they will garnish your wages or set up payments thru the court.


She cashed my check. Like I said..right away. I saw the image on my online statements. I think what she meant was send a check back for my deposit. Since she already cashed my money.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

oh....I would wait another week and send a letter. It's really only been 2 weeks and it is possible for it to be lost in the mail.

Personally, I would fight it on principle. So tired of shady people getting away with unethical actions.


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## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

I'd call her and tell her you are going to drive down to get your deposit back. People tend to act differently when they think they may have to face you.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> oh....I would wait another week and send a letter. It's really only been 2 weeks and it is possible for it to be lost in the mail.
> 
> Personally, I would fight it on principle. So tired of shady people getting away with unethical actions.


Really hoping she a) sent it in the first place, and magically it shows up soon, or b) she sent it out when I emailed her again on sunday, and it shows up soon. I'd hate to go through this headache just to get MY money back that she said she'd give back. People never ever fail to amaze me.



And I would drive there, but then thats atleast $60 bucks in gas and almost 4 hours of my time, just to cater to her. Ugh.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Why don't you suggest to her that she transfer the money via an email payment. I've used them a few times and really like them. Not sure how popular they are in the U.S. but here all the major banks use this method and it is really easy for both parties.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I understand you are frustrated and understandably so. If her bitch did not get pregnant, and produce a litter and you had a deposit on that litter, and she said she would refund it, then she should. 

She says she will. 

But some of the stuff you have said does not indicate a bad breeder, and I would like to address them. 

1. No, it is not a sign of a bad breeder to not know the bitch is not pregnant. Bitches can and often have false pregnancies where they gain weight, drop teets, produce milk. You really have to wait until the last couple of weeks to x-ray because until the skeleton calcifies it will not show up on an x-ray, and some of us really do not want to subject our bitches or the puppies to a lot of x-rays. As for ultra-sounds, that is safer (current thought), but it is also more expensive -- some of those non-refundable deposits would have to go to that, and it is really unnecessary. It will not improve the puppies at all, and it is possible that continuously stressing and exposing the bitch to a vet's office might not be such a good thing.

2. She was offering you, not forcing you to buy from another bitch she bred her dog to. There is nothing wrong with breeders using their stud to outside bitches, in fact, that actually is better then buying from a breeder who has a couple of dogs and both sire and dam. A good breeder who owns a stud dog, will choose carefully the bitches he will breed to, and he checks the pedigree to ensure that the breeding makes sense, and he evaluates the temperament and structure of the bitch, because he will likely be blamed if the puppies come out poor, so it is in his best interest to breed to a bitch that complements his dog. No problem whatsoever in offering to sell one of those puppies.

3. Not having the pedigree on hand of the bitch is not the end of the world, if you would have asked if he could get it and forward it to you, he would probably contact the bitch owner and ask her to forward it. I have done this for a couple of people the stud owner sent my way.

4. Yes, she wants to sell you a dog. By selling a pup from the other breeder it is her lines, and she may make some form of commission or it may be the pup for the stud fee, and now that her litter didn't take, she needs that even more. This is not your problem, and it sounds like she isn't forcing you to accept this dog.

My guess is she went to do the x-ray and the bitch isn't pregnant. That is nature, not a failure on her part or the bitch's part. A lot of people do not refund deposits, they just apply them to another litter. 

I would give her a little time, the benefit of the doubt, before persuing it farther.

15 dogs is not a puppy mill. It is 15 dogs. Some are probably retired bitches, some may be up and coming. Some may be returns or dogs that have dropped out of the breeding program and have not been placed in homes yet. If she has 15 dogs and 20-25 litters per year, then she is a puppy mill. But just having 15 dogs does not indicate that at all. 

Actually, I would buy from someone with more than the average number of dogs a household has more quickly than someone who just has 1-2 bitches. This is because I want to buy from someone who is breeding for the future, and that means holding back puppies and letting them grow out, and breeding dogs they have bred. And a responsible breeder will take back dogs if necessary. And a responsible breeder will deal with problems, and not just dump or kill dogs that have an issue that makes them not breedworthy, but no reason to be euthanized. And we grow attached to our dogs so that it is unlikely that if you are in this business for any time, that you will not have some older girls that you are not going to breed again. 



gsdlover91 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. In my eyes, she is very un-professional, based on her treatment of a potential 'customer' after her female failed to produce a litter that I had a deposit on. She tried forcing me to her other litters, even though, yes she did state she would refund me. After looking into this more, and reading on here about what a good breeder is, I was no longer interested, ESPECIALLY after she tried pushing the puppy from a bitch that wasnt even hers. All she said she could supply me with was AKC papers, but what does that tell me?? She couldn't give me a pedigree. I couldn t see where this dog even came from, or what it even was. Not interested to say the least.. Not to mention, I didnt know the temperment, or anything about the bitch.
> 
> Yes, this whole thing is turning into a headache over a couple hundred, and yes, I do have better things to worry about (my sweet Akira) but the deposit WOULD help me with all these vet visits and makes me angry that my money ended up in the hands of a person like her. By no means am I rich, or even close, so a couple hundred put a dent in my bank account, especially when it ended up being to just basically handed to some rude person, for no reason. Yes, should have did more research, I did ALOT, but I guess not enough, but when emailing with her in the beginning,( a couple months ago) she seemed nice, someone who i'd want to work with, etc. Answered everything blah blah blah. Obviously, then I started digging in more, and asking why NO dogs were OFA'd (all on only prelims most done at a very young age) and what not, and then the female lost the litter. Two weeks before said due date. Wouldnt you be able to tell the bitch was pregnant? Im not dog breeder but i'd assume youd be able to atleast tell??
> 
> ...


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Report her for fraud to your local.. We get calls like this all the time about a business transaction where the seller "took money" and never gave a service or product. Yes it may end up as just a report for your file or it could lead into something bigger. 

Send a certified letter requesting payment within so many days. Tell her you will personally pick up cash or certified bank check or have the money wired paypal. 

Next time find a reputible breeder who only takes deposits once pups are on the ground and you have signed an official contract saying you have put $$$ deposit on said pup and upon this date pup will be turned over to you or money back or however the specific contract reads. Know then fine details of the contract before going into an agreement. Make sure all future possible contracts you know what happens if a suitable pup is not avail for you after your deposit, any health guarentees, refunds, returns etc. Hopefully if she runs a reasonable business she will come to her senses and return your money.


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

So, now, a breeder who takes a deposit before pups are born is also not reputable? 

This is really getting interesting.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

selzer said:


> I understand you are frustrated and understandably so. If her bitch did not get pregnant, and produce a litter and you had a deposit on that litter, and she said she would refund it, then she should.
> 
> She says she will.
> 
> ...


I did not say she was a puppy mill, I said she has alot of dogs, and clearly needs the money.

I have no problem that she didnt x-ray/ultrasound her bitch, I understand things go wrong, but when the bitch is that close to being due, wouldnt you be able to tell shes atleast pregnant?? 

YES, she was offering, but not taking NO for an answer, she was really pushing this puppy on me. Still, after all this time, is still 'rubbing' it in my face..saying I could have had a wonderful dog by taking that puppy. No need for that in my opinion. 

Correct, not having a pedigree is not the end of the world, but I asked for it more than once, and she couldnt supply me with it. I want to see what I am potentially buying. Am i wrong here? She made no attempts to try and get it for me or anything, each time I asked for it so avoided the question completely. 

Again, I have no problem with her having that many dogs, did not call her a puppy mill, a BYB, or anything, but it is OBVIOUS she needs the money, and if you need money that bad...maybe you shouldn't have that many dogs? Or dont say numerous times youll refund someone if you dont have the money. This is the problem here. Nothing else. Sorry if it came off differently.


And @vom eisenherz, no, i didnt say that either. Most breeders I have come in contact with DO take non refundable deposits before the litter is born. Not an issue. And that is not the problem I am dealing with. If they take a deposit beforehand, I would atleast not cash the check until the litter is 100% for sure. But whatever, even if they do cash the check, thats fine. This lady said more than once she would refund me. Now she is having a huge issue with it. 



Trust me, I have been more than nice to her throughout this whole ordeal, even though she has NOT been nice in return. I came here just to see what I can do, to get my money back, if possible. I am going to give it two more weeks, and if nothing, I will send her the certified letter and then go from there. If you say something, you need to back it up. If you say your going to refund me, refund me then. Dont go back on it once I decide I want a refund. This is my issue. Nothing else.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

vom Eisenherz said:


> So, now, a breeder who takes a deposit before pups are born is also not reputable?
> 
> This is really getting interesting.


I don't accept deposits until pups are on the ground for this very reason. I really do not want to put my girls through ultra-sounds or x-rays unless I am concerned about there being a problem. And I really don't want people freaking out and going nuts about their new puppy until after they are born and thriving. Less chance of them being disappointed that way. 

But really, you're a breeder, you ought to know that you are a bad breeder if:

You take deposits before the litter is on the ground
You breed a bitch before you have seven deposits
You make a living raising puppies
You work and raise puppies on the side
You are not available 24/7 to answer phone calls to people who might want a puppy of some type, probably 2-3 years from now
You have more than three dogs
You have less than three dogs
You have more than one litter in a year
You do not have a litter ready when I am ready for a puppy
You and your bitch failed to produce a litter for which I had a deposit. 
You have less than 50 years experience in dogs, particularly shepherds.
You are more than 70 years old.

I could go on and on and on. But I figure you have the picture.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

gsdlover91 said:


> I did not say she was a puppy mill, I said she has alot of dogs, and clearly needs the money.
> 
> I have no problem that she didnt x-ray/ultrasound her bitch, I understand things go wrong, but when the bitch is that close to being due, wouldnt you be able to tell shes atleast pregnant??


No. Sorry. I cannot tell if it is a false pregnancy or if it is the real thing. I do not have x-ray vision. 

When they get really, really close, like a couple of days you might be able to feel them moving. 

Up to a certain point you can palpate and they will feel like little golf balls. Not everyone wants to do this, and just because you thought you felt something, does not mean that they will turn out to be live puppies at the end of the day. For weeks, they can easily be aborted and resorbed with no outward signs. 

After a magic day, it all feels just like a bunch of fluid, no discernable puppies.

Remember pregnancy is only 9 weeks. If she told you two weeks prior to the expected due date, then she did indeed x-ray. You need to wait before x-raying until day 49 or near there. That's seven weeks. Seven out of nine. 

It sounds like she let you know right away, which in my opinion is a positive for the breeder. If she was the scum of the earth, she would have waited for you to contact her and then let you know that the bitch wasn't pregnant. 

The fact that she offered to refund the deposit, suggests that she wants to do the right thing. I think she is getting frustrated with you too, and perhaps frustrated that she did not foresee the fact that her bitch might not whelp a litter. 

She should not be rude, so long as you aren't being rude or unreasonable to her, so that is inexcusable, really.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

selzer said:


> She should not be rude, so long as you aren't being rude or unreasonable to her, so that is inexcusable, really.


I think that's the whole point.

I have no idea who this breeder is or what her reputation is. She's obviously short on cash, and who isn't? But yeah, if you're chronically short on money to the point where you can't pay what you promised to pay, there's a problem, and maybe you shouldn't have that many dogs. 

Based on how she is treating the OP, I would not want to work with her. I can't help but wonder, if she's unethical in her dealings with people, how ethical is she going to be in her breeding practices? Granted, I know a lot of "dog people" aren't necessarily "people people", and have problems dealing with others. But I tend not to trust a person who treats others with disrespect.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't think whether she takes deposits prior to puppies hitting the ground, referred/try pressuring the OP to go with another litter, didn't give her the information etc, cashed the deposit when she got it, have anything to do with not returning a refund IF she said the refund would be returned.

The bottom line is, if she said she'd refund (and good thing you have it in emails, then that's what should be done...Honestly, I don't know whether she's sent it or not, none of us do, it could very well have been lost in the mail. 

We don't know the conversations that went back and forth, if she was rude well that is disrespectful, and probably won't go far with their reputation atleast from the OP's stand point. Which I can't say I blame them.

Like I said before, I'd give her (actually don't know if it's a 'her' xx amount of time, and if the refund is not received follow thru with whatever..

A couple hundred bucks is a couple hundred bucks. If it was 50 bucks I'd probably let it slide as lesson learned..

Hope it's settled to your satisfaction


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Freestep said:


> I think that's the whole point.
> 
> I have no idea who this breeder is or what her reputation is. She's obviously short on cash, and who isn't? But yeah, if you're chronically short on money to the point where you can't pay what you promised to pay, there's a problem, and maybe you shouldn't have that many dogs.
> 
> Based on how she is treating the OP, I would not want to work with her. I can't help but wonder, if she's unethical in her dealings with people, how ethical is she going to be in her breeding practices? Granted, I know a lot of "dog people" aren't necessarily "people people", and have problems dealing with others. But I tend not to trust a person who treats others with disrespect.


But remember always, that we are hearing only one side of the story too. I mean, this guy is pretty insistent that she should have known earlier than two weeks prior to the projected whelp date, if he was insistent to the breeder that she should have called or whatever earlier, if he was rude to her, then I can see her being a bit reluctant to jump into action. Yes, she should pay the money back IF she did not have a non-refundable deposit / no policy in place that the deposit will move to the next available litter.

And, the unethical ones, the ones that are all about the cash, they will have something like that in place for sure. I am just suggesting that a breeder is only human, and if someone is really rude to them, they may be less than helpful back, even if they do intend to make it right. And sometimes, people when they hear what they don't want to hear might take normal conversation as rudeness, we see that on here all the time as well. 

Remember too that it has only been two weeks. The OP sounds like he lost no time in bringing in another puppy, as the puppy he would have gotten would have just been born if it was to be. 

Sometimes people don't want to wait once they finally are ready to get a pup. They find another litter that is already ready to go, and they buy one. Then they go back to Breeder A, and ask for their money back. Some of them can be quite creative, citing a medical issue, etc, that caused them not to be able to get a pup at this time. So you the soft-hearted breeder offer to give them their deposit back and do. You run into them or hear of them three months down the line and they have a 5 month old pup. Yeah right! Medical condition! Whatever, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. We don't _know_ that is what is going on here. 

But if enough people PM the OP and get the information of who the breeder is, they can put a real hurting or pressure on the breeder, and there may be a whole other side to this story.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

She says she sent you your check back on July 22, but on July 21, you already had another pup chosen from a breeder who was "much better than the previous breeder you were dealing with." That pup was to arrive the following Wednesday, much sooner than these pups would even be ready. It sounds like before she ever told you that the check was in the mail, you disliked the previous breeder. It sounds like you read up on things and realized that the breeder hadn't jumped through all of the hoops that you have since learned about, breeding on pre-lims and such. 

I am not saying that things did not go down as you said, but it sounds like you were already upset with this breeder on 7/21 and already had found another breeder and puppy. Is it possible that your irritation seeped through, and maybe she is not being as responsive to you for a reason? 

Breeders are people just like you. They can be rude, they can be nice, they can be abrupt, they can talk your ear off. It really sounds like this breeder is at least responding to your requests and giving you information, and perhaps we are being a little bit unfair to the anonymous breeder here. Because there will be people who will go out of their way to find out who you were going to get a pup from, and that is character assassination. It really doesn't affect you at all as a buyer, but it can really injure a breeder.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Doesn't matter what kind of deposit/refund policy they have, if they agree to return a deposit because of no puppies, they just made a new agreement with you and they owe you your deposit.

I'm with the other poster, none of this other stuff matters, puppies, no puppies, other litter, rude, not rude, cashing checks for deposits, whatever. None of it matters. If they said they'd return your deposit, it needs to be returned. They can't charge YOU a canceled check fee and you don't have to wait for an eternity to see if the check shows up.

Give it 10 days, and send her a letter. If it's been 10 days, send a certified letter now giving them 10 days. If you still don't get payment, file the claim. Don't get emotional, don't do anything but what was said above and you'll get your judgement.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am just saying that we are only hearing one side of the story. And on the internet, we generally only see one side. And since most of us are buyers moreso than breeders, we tend to side on the side of the buyers. This guy was already annoyed with the breeder prior to the promised check having been mailed or time for that check not to arrive. I am just pointing that out.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

selzer said:


> She says she sent you your check back on July 22, but on July 21, you already had another pup chosen from a breeder who was "much better than the previous breeder you were dealing with." That pup was to arrive the following Wednesday, much sooner than these pups would even be ready. It sounds like before she ever told you that the check was in the mail, you disliked the previous breeder. It sounds like you read up on things and realized that the breeder hadn't jumped through all of the hoops that you have since learned about, breeding on pre-lims and such.
> 
> I am not saying that things did not go down as you said, but it sounds like you were already upset with this breeder on 7/21 and already had found another breeder and puppy. Is it possible that your irritation seeped through, and maybe she is not being as responsive to you for a reason?
> 
> Breeders are people just like you. They can be rude, they can be nice, they can be abrupt, they can talk your ear off. It really sounds like this breeder is at least responding to your requests and giving you information, and perhaps we are being a little bit unfair to the anonymous breeder here. Because there will be people who will go out of their way to find out who you were going to get a pup from, and that is character assassination. It really doesn't affect you at all as a buyer, but it can really injure a breeder.


 
For starters, im a lady. 
Second, Have not mentioned said breeder at all. Not here to do that. Or anything. I created this thread to see what i CAN and SHOULD do about the situation im in. I was nothing but nice to this lady, as stated. Have not been rude once to her. Not once. Im mature, and I expect people to treat me the way I treat them. That being said, I dont go out of my way to be rude. 

Yes, I had found another puppy. I told the breeder I was only going to LOOK at the puppy, which I was, and that I would let her know. I was keeping my options open, nothing wrong with that? No? She then became RUDE with me once I said that. Uncalled for, really. I wasn't locked in a contract with this lady any longer.. i specifically made a deposit for a certain litter. That litter was no longer happening, so she told me shed refund, or move the deposit. BEFORE i even said I wanted the refund, i said I was just looking at my options. Then she became increasingly rude, so I asked for it back. Which then she responded with, "I have to talk to my husband about your deposit". So i forwarded her the emails of her stating shed refund it and she typed back rudely in all caps to me. Um....yeah. 

The bottom line, as others have stated: She said shed refund me, and is still giving me a hard time about it, as well as being very rude. I came here to ask for advice what to do. Some of you are digging way to far into this and fighting about what a good breeder bad breeder is and what not. That is not the purpose of my thread. 

Sigh. Thanks for the advice everyone.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

crackem said:


> Doesn't matter what kind of deposit/refund policy they have, if they agree to return a deposit because of no puppies, they just made a new agreement with you and they owe you your deposit.
> 
> I'm with the other poster, none of this other stuff matters, puppies, no puppies, other litter, rude, not rude, cashing checks for deposits, whatever. None of it matters. If they said they'd return your deposit, it needs to be returned. They can't charge YOU a canceled check fee and you don't have to wait for an eternity to see if the check shows up.
> 
> Give it 10 days, and send her a letter. If it's been 10 days, send a certified letter now giving them 10 days. If you still don't get payment, file the claim. Don't get emotional, don't do anything but what was said above and you'll get your judgement.


Thank you. This was the whole point to my thread. To figure out WHAT to do. None of the other things matter. And what you said to do is what I am going to do.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

And, since your being date specific, she emailed me 7/14 saying the litter i had a deposit for wasnt happening, and let me know about the refund/or move my deposit, and I said I would check out her other litters, but I also was checking out other breeders. Since I was no longer getting a puppy from the litter I wanted, I was looking elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with this. Why am I not allowed to look at other breeders if the one I was going to buy from didnt have a pup I was interested in? I was not going to choose to settle. None of her other litters interested me. Then she tried to push the one puppy on me, when I told her I wasnt interested in her litters. This whole time I WAS NICE, and kindly asked for info about the puppy, and bitch. She didnt really tell me anything except she was AKC registered and she had deep red coloring. No OFA, no titles, no predigree. Nothing. Still being nice, I told her I was going to look at a puppy later in the week, and if it didnt work out, I told her I would let her know and see where to go from there. This is when she became rude. Im not going to be giving my money to anyone who is rude, so I asked for my deposit back, as she stated shed give me.

I found Akira by chance, really. And the way things panned out after that, I felt it was meant to be. I dont care what ANYONE has to say about that. Whats done is done, and im just trying to get my deposit back from a lady who said shed give it back. Thats all. If its lost in the mail, whatever. If its her money, and the check is lost, why wouldnt she cancel the check. IDK. The whole situation is just becoming increasinly irritating, and since she no longer has me as a buyer, she really doesnt seem to care how shes treating me or talking to me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

gsdlover91 said:


> For starters, im a lady.
> Second, Have not mentioned said breeder at all. Not here to do that. Or anything. I created this thread to see what i CAN and SHOULD do about the situation im in. I was nothing but nice to this lady, as stated. Have not been rude once to her. Not once. Im mature, and I expect people to treat me the way I treat them. That being said, I dont go out of my way to be rude.
> 
> Yes, I had found another puppy. I told the breeder I was only going to LOOK at the puppy, which I was, and that I would let her know. I was keeping my options open, nothing wrong with that? No? She then became RUDE with me once I said that. Uncalled for, really. I wasn't locked in a contract with this lady any longer.. i specifically made a deposit for a certain litter. That litter was no longer happening, so she told me shed refund, or move the deposit. BEFORE i even said I wanted the refund, i said I was just looking at my options. Then she became increasingly rude, so I asked for it back. Which then she responded with, "I have to talk to my husband about your deposit". So i forwarded her the emails of her stating shed refund it and she typed back rudely in all caps to me. Um....yeah.
> ...


Maybe it is not, but you brought up the stuff about breeding on pre-lims, and that she has 15 dogs, with a mad face. And all that stuff about how she should have known sooner than seven weeks along that her bitch was not pregnant, like she should have done something she did not. And pushing you to take a puppy out of another bitch.

I cannot imagine someone being that fussed about a couple of hundred dollars to be rude about it. 

I hope she gives you your money back, but what I am hearing is a lot of impatience on your part, and pointing out all the other stuff because you want your money back and you want it NOW. Will you be just as quick to come on and tell us if the post office delivers it in a chewed up envelope with an apology? 

I personally think that going to small claims court at this point is premature. 

It seems like we here on this thread have been judge and jury on the anonymous breeder, proclaimed she is a scoundrel and sentenced her to being persecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

gsdlover91 said:


> And, since your being date specific, she emailed me 7/14 saying the litter i had a deposit for wasnt happening, and let me know about the refund/or move my deposit, and I said I would check out her other litters, but I also was checking out other breeders. Since I was no longer getting a puppy from the litter I wanted, I was looking elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with this. Why am I not allowed to look at other breeders if the one I was going to buy from didnt have a pup I was interested in? I was not going to choose to settle. None of her other litters interested me. Then she tried to push the one puppy on me, when I told her I wasnt interested in her litters. This whole time I WAS NICE, and kindly asked for info about the puppy, and bitch. She didnt really tell me anything except she was AKC registered and she had deep red coloring. No OFA, no titles, no predigree. Nothing. Still being nice, I told her I was going to look at a puppy later in the week, and if it didnt work out, I told her I would let her know and see where to go from there. This is when she became rude. Im not going to be giving my money to anyone who is rude, so I asked for my deposit back, as she stated shed give me.
> 
> I found Akira by chance, really. And the way things panned out after that, I felt it was meant to be. I dont care what ANYONE has to say about that. Whats done is done, and im just trying to get my deposit back from a lady who said shed give it back. Thats all. If its lost in the mail, whatever. If its her money, and the check is lost, why wouldnt she cancel the check. IDK. The whole situation is just becoming increasinly irritating, and since she no longer has me as a buyer, she really doesnt seem to care how shes treating me or talking to me.



I don't know. I have never had to cancel a check so I really don't know what it entails, though I know that my bank charges a good healthy fee for that. 

See, that's the way buyers generally treat breeders. Once they decide they no longer want a puppy, why waste 2 minutes and tell the breeder you are not going to show up tonight, that you found another puppy. 

I am guessing she was disappointed at losing the sale. That is no excuse for being rude.


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

Definitely go to small claims court asap. They have online forms and info that make it simple to file and schedule. You are wasting your breath talking to her anymore.

Call your local city or state bar association and/or law school--they often have free clinics where lawyers or senior law students do free work for people with small problems like this.

Some states provide that you can recover additional damages if someone keeps your money without reason. She'll have to show the judge the check she allegedly wrote--if she doesn't have it the judge will be pretty p***ed off at her. Stand up for your rights, and get your hard-earned money back.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

selzer said:


> Maybe it is not, but you brought up the stuff about breeding on pre-lims, and that she has 15 dogs, with a mad face. And all that stuff about how she should have known sooner than seven weeks along that her bitch was not pregnant, like she should have done something she did not. And pushing you to take a puppy out of another bitch.
> 
> I cannot imagine someone being that fussed about a couple of hundred dollars to be rude about it.
> 
> ...


 
Haha, I said like 3 times on here I was going to wait a week or two before I sent her a certified letter. Never said I was going to go to a small claims court RIGHT NOW. 

I'm not being impatient, but your telling me that if you sent a check in the mail worth a couple hundred, and the person your sending it to told you they hadnt recieved it, you wouldnt be concerned, at all?

If it were me, i'd cancel the check to be on the safe side. 

And i also ASKED, if shed be able to tell if she were pregnant by 7 weeks or not. Im not a breeder, I didnt even know they are only pregnant for 9 weeks. Yikes. I thought youd be able to tell. Sorry for not knowing. 

And well, im sorry you cant imagine it, but she is being rude over a couple hundred. I dont know what to tell you.

And clearly, I wasnt 'quick' to jump on here and attack this breeder. Your being kind of harsh. If i was 'quick' id be on here 5 days after she 'sent' the check. Its been almost three weeks. I came ON HERE FOR ADVICE. Ive never been in this situation before. Do you see the breeders name anywhere?? No. Do you see me telling anyone to PM me so I can badmouth the breeder? no? I have not mentioned WHO she is ONCE. I dont care. The point, once again, is she said she'd refund me, and is being rude/giving me a hard time. I asked what to do.


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

gsdlover91 said:


> ....Have not mentioned said breeder at all. Not here to do that. Or anything. I created this thread to see what i CAN and SHOULD do about the situation im in....
> 
> The bottom line, as others have stated: She said shed refund me, and is still giving me a hard time about it, as well as being very rude. I came here to ask for advice what to do. Some of you are digging way to far into this and fighting about what a good breeder bad breeder is and what not. That is not the purpose of my thread.
> 
> Sigh. Thanks for the advice everyone.


:thumbup:


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

selzer said:


> I don't know. I have never had to cancel a check so I really don't know what it entails, though I know that my bank charges a good healthy fee for that.
> 
> See, that's the way buyers generally treat breeders. Once they decide they no longer want a puppy, why waste 2 minutes and tell the breeder you are not going to show up tonight, that you found another puppy.
> 
> I am guessing she was disappointed at losing the sale. That is no excuse for being rude.


Yes, I know it does. But if I had to pay a small fee to cancel a check...rather than have it end up in some random persons hands..esp. when were talking about a couple hundred..I would do it. Guess thats just me. 

Also, I dont know what your not understanding, I didnt 'decide i didnt want a puppy'. The litter i had a down payment for was not going to happen, period. Are you telling me I should have settled for another puppy from another litter, that I wasnt interested in?

I didnt ask for a refund first. She told me right off the bat that she'd refund me. I still don't get how i'm in the wrong here. I understand yes she was probably disappointed, but then why say your going to refund?


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

selzer said:


> i don't accept deposits until pups are on the ground for this very reason. I really do not want to put my girls through ultra-sounds or x-rays unless i am concerned about there being a problem. And i really don't want people freaking out and going nuts about their new puppy until after they are born and thriving. Less chance of them being disappointed that way.
> 
> But really, you're a breeder, you ought to know that you are a bad breeder if:
> 
> ...


lmao!!!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

actually I once had a deposit on a litter that didn't happen, she was having a false pregnancy and didn't realize that was going on until almost whelp date, took me 'forever' to get my money back because the deal was, that litter or no litter and my deposit would be refunded..

Anyhoo, good sleuthing selzer

BUT, bottom line, I still think, when one says they will refund they should refund and just get it over with..If it was stated 'no refund', I'd stand by that to. 

Hope you get your money back.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

my bank only charges the fee for cancelling a check IF the item in question is actually cashed. I have Bank of America and they are charge for EVERYTHING.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

GSDlover91....no one has the right to be rude or condescending to anyone...buyer or seller (for no legit reason).....so I'm in agreement with you.

*You are entitled to your deposit...*unless it is stated otherwise, in a clause, somewhere in a contract....
*You are entitled to your deposit* in a realistic, amount of time also.....not 3 mos, 6 mos...or when the breeder has better "cash flow".

Now...*it is absolutely no one's business...*how many dogs this person chooses to keep or breed.....that is "their" business. As long as people take care of their dogs...no one has the right to judge what *they feel is acceptable*...it's totally irrelevant.
Personally....I think you have enough on your plate, you don't need the aggravation of losing your deposit.
*Give the breeder a "chance" always to make things right......*then, if she does not....proceed with other options.

**My suggestion:* Send the breeder a certified letter, that you get a returned signature on. Give her at least 10 days to refund you. Place a certified, returnable envelope inside.*
Oh....Be polite! LOL!

That's my suggestion...nothing more.
Best of luck to you!
Robin


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I agree with Robin.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> my bank only charges the fee for cancelling a check IF the item in question is actually cashed..


Same here.


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## Alrod (Aug 4, 2012)

selzer said:


> Breeders are people just like you. They can be rude, they can be nice, they can be abrupt, they can talk your ear off.
> 
> Because there will be people who will go out of their way to find out who you were going to get a pup from, and that is character assassination. It really doesn't affect you at all as a buyer, but it can really injure a breeder.


Yes Breeders are people, but if they want to stay in business, it is in their best interest not to be rude. It's no different than walking into a store, restaurant, etc. I totally disagree with you on that point. Sure it's a free country and we have free will but there are consequences to rude behavior. 

It's character assassination only if the story is not true. The OP has email evidence of what was said by the breeder as far as the refund goes. The breeder is trying to push an unwanted puppy. Does not sound like a very ethical breeder to me. I hope it turns out well for the OP. All she wanted was a puppy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Alrod said:


> Yes Breeders are people, but if they want to stay in business, it is in their best interest not to be rude. It's no different than walking into a store, restaurant, etc. I totally disagree with you on that point. Sure it's a free country and we have free will but there are consequences to rude behavior.
> 
> It's character assassination only if the story is not true. The OP has email evidence of what was said by the breeder as far as the refund goes. The breeder is trying to push an unwanted puppy. Does not sound like a very ethical breeder to me. I hope it turns out well for the OP. All she wanted was a puppy.


I have said over and over that there is no excuse for being rude. But if people are being rude to the breeder, then a breeder is only human, and may end up being rude back. I do not know that we have really heard what it was that was considered rude. Sometimes, and this site really proves this over and over and over again, people say something not intending for it to sound rude and some people take it as being rude. Some people are looking for rudeness in every thing. And some people are offended by just about everything. 

We do not know what the e-mail says. 

There are two sides to most stories, because things happen, but depending on how it effects you, your perception of the events, the tone, etc., can be different. 

Because I don't know the OP, I really cannot make a judgment on the anonymous breeder. I think there is a reason, that from the earliest time, people have required more than one witness to get all the facts. 

And it is plain human nature to remember the negative forever, whether or not the facts have been established through more than one witness, whether or not both parties have chimed in, etc. I see it with vets all the time. People do not remember all the times the vet has found something or fixed something for their pup, but every time a vet makes a mistake that follows them. 

If one person tells me that a vet sucks, that they killed their pet, etc., well I remember that, but I try not to act on that until I have more than one complainant with similar stories.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Selzer, I know that it is important to you to defend breeders and present the perspective from their side.

But I think in this case, according to what the OP says, it's open and shut. Sure, we haven't heard the breeder's side, but bottom line is this: if the breeder said she would return the deposit, and has yet to do so, been very rude about it, trying to claim she didn't owe OP the deposit back, then backpedaling on that, then the check "getting lost in the mail"... well, that's wrong. And fishy.

Whether the breeder is or isn't a good breeder because she didn't do this or that is immaterial. If she said she'd give the deposit back, she should give it back. Without rudeness, without blaming, without backpedaling, without lying. It's just not good business practice to be leave your potential customers with an impression like that.

The point of this thread is that the OP is in a situation she's never been in before, and she wants to know how to deal with it, what her rights are, and what steps to take. 

Just because OP said something about the breeder not knowing the bitch is pregnant, or has 15 dogs, doesn't mean her intent for this thread is to ruin the breeder's name. If it were, she'd have told us the breeder's name or dropped hints. True, she could have left out whatever details weren't pertinent, but I'm sure she's been bothered by a few things at this point and is simply venting, along with trying to figure out what she should do next.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Thanks everyone, I know what to do now, and will take the steps needed. Hope it doesnt have to end up going all the way to a small circuit court but we'll see...

And yes, I started this thread to figure out what to do, because I had zero idea of my rights and what I could (if anything) even do in this situation. Did NOT come here to bad mouth a breeder, did not give hints, a name, a town, nothing. Yes, I vented, because the whole situation is quite irritating, but I did mention anything that could let people know who the breeder is. 

Hopefully this whole situation gets settled sooner rather than later, and I appreciate all the advice.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

If it helps any, there are a number of fairly close reputable breeders in your area after you get this resolved.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Freestep said:


> Selzer, I know that it is important to you to defend breeders and present the perspective from their side.
> 
> But I think in this case, according to what the OP says, it's open and shut. Sure, we haven't heard the breeder's side, but bottom line is this: if the breeder said she would return the deposit, and has yet to do so, been very rude about it, trying to claim she didn't owe OP the deposit back, then backpedaling on that, then the check "getting lost in the mail"... well, that's wrong. And fishy.
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Alrod (Aug 4, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Selzer, I know that it is important to you to defend breeders and present the perspective from their side.
> 
> But I think in this case, according to what the OP says, it's open and shut. Sure, we haven't heard the breeder's side, but bottom line is this: if the breeder said she would return the deposit, and has yet to do so, been very rude about it, trying to claim she didn't owe OP the deposit back, then backpedaling on that, then the check "getting lost in the mail"... well, that's wrong. And fishy.
> 
> ...


This is a great post.


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

A lesson i learned many years ago, Don't give deposits you can't afford to loose. Good luck getting yours back


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

She ended up sending another check, which I recieved in a matter of 3 days, the whole issue has been resolved. Thanks for all the help.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I'm glad to hear that all has been resolved. I am sure that, right now, you are not looking forward to working with a breeder again. But there ARE nice ones out there... when you are ready, just ask the forum for a recommendation.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Very glad to hear the situation has been resolved......*time*....sometimes, it's all it takes.


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