# Fiasco at class and prong question, *long*



## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

So idk if any of you remember but Baya was in puppy class last semester and she worked up to doing intermediate during that class with one other dog. Well there was a fire in the petsmart that we were doing training courses in (I know petsmarts not the best but our trainer was good) and we didnt' get to finish the last four classes. Well the builiding was closed for a month and then we had xmas break. When we went back to talk to them they said that we could have free intermediate classes but our old trainer had been stolen by petco  So now we have a new trainer... 

Rant part:

Fast forward to today, we finally get our first class. There are two other dogs, an 18 month old lab ridgeback cross (who is ADORABLE and Bayas new bff  ) and a gorgeous year old great dane. Hyper doesn't begin to descirbe the dogs today lol They were all misbehaving. He didn't let them get a chance to really smell each other so they were beyond curious and he kept trying to talk over them yipping at each other. Then the great dane starts doing the grumbly frustrated I want to play noises and baya started doing it back. You could tell there was no aggression in it, no growling or anything. The trainger backs up and in a timid voice asks if they are being agressive... So we all had to say no they just wanted to play. So he gives them a three minute play session. 

So we try to regroup and he asks us about what we had done before and what we wanted to work on. We said that she just needed to work on distractions and walking on a leash. Then we said that last week we had picked up a prong collar and had been working on training her with that and that it had helped more than anything else we had tried. He was not impressed, he didn't think that the prong was a good training method at all. He said that it was more of a *insert hand viper move* (yes really)where as just being a gentle pack leader was the perminent and positive solution. Which I understand but it just wasnt working we had tried it before. Tried to explain that and he told us we weren't patient enough. Then the great dane wont walk at all without pulling so he suggests she wrap it around her right hand, put the rest being her upper back, bring the other part around and hold onto it with the left hand. That way when she pulls they have a better hold of her. Did I mention the sophies (the great dane) owner is an older lady that maybe weighs 110lbs?? The great dane was jerking HIM around with no problems, if she tried that I doubt it would work for her at all. Not to mention the dane had a gentle leader which the trainer just loved, nothing against them but sophie had it in her eyes the whole time. Then he just jerked her around the training area (not impressed) like he was leading a horse around, his hand right under her chin pressing the gentle leader and she still walked circles around him. This continues for 10 minutes and he still didn't get her to walk right, he just handed her back to her owner. 

Bayas turn for a demonstration. Grabs her leash and she obviously didn't want to go (shes still cautious around guys) so he's pulling on her leash (somthing he told us NOT to do) until she goes with him. Then shes staring at us the whole time and pulling like crazy. So trainer man was like when she pulls stop and look at her and say stop in a gentle firm voice. So thats what he does. HA HA ok I'm not one to laugh at someone BUT baya didn't stop pulling and then he was just like stop stop stop stop STOP STOP STOP STOP" lol Baya licks sophie and then sits down and gives him the most condesending look I've ever seen her give anyone, looks at us and then lays down. So he was like see it just takes patience. 1. Baya didn't stop because you said stop, Baya stopped because Baya is hot and lazy and wanted to lay down. 2. I thought you weren't supposed to repeat commands much less have a constant stream of them getting angrier and angrier. 

Anyway thats pretty much the gist of it, he decided to let us go early and we made play dates with the other dogs. 

Question part: 

Are prongs really that evil? I mean I know they are just a training tool but honestly she listens AMAZING on it, we never even have to make corrections. It doesn't hurt her, and it seems a lot more humane than letting her choke herself and hack up a storm like he was doing. 

Sorry for the long post just wanted to share w/you our experience, I think we are going to keep coming back for the socialization and because its free. Definetly goes to show you the difference a trainer can make! I don't think Baya will be volunteering for any more demonstrations thats for sure. 

On a positive note Baya was the best at her commands, she did all of them when asked, if only they would let us use the prong during class when shes supposed to be learning anyway.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Who says they are evil?
I use one on my boy. He gets to rowdy sometimes with his "wrestling" with me.
As soon as its on his neck he is an angel.
I also only use it for walks. Its a good training tool! (When used properly!)


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

I know they look mean and at first I had my doubts but honetly after using it I think they are great and really help us. *sigh* idk its frustrating to go from Baya walking beautifully to having rope burns from the leash lol


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I would rather not use prong collars (I have two hanging in my garage. I have used them. I would rather not.) What I find is that working longer without them gives a better long term result. I find that it arrives slower but lasts longer. It also feels better although I do get plenty frustrated working on a flat collar (the Feels Better is also "in the long run.")
Lots of training instructors do not want to use correction collars. Looks like you've got one and will be taking the "longer" route! That or move to follow the instructor you liked and pay.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Prongs used and FITTED properly are great training tools. They are made to pinch the dog when a correction is made. This instills in their mind later that when you give them a correction command, they'll remember the consequences of not complying (pinch). My trainer is world known and SWEARS by prong collars when needed. (Being how great Titon is, I haven't needed to use one yet. Check back with me when he's in teenager age.  ) He absolutely HATES the gentle leaders and he's shown us evidence of them leaving rub raw skin on dogs' muzzles. 

You are doing the right thing. This trainer needs to look for a new career/work.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I use a prong when training, better than having my shoulder yanked out of the socket ))

oh my gosh, this trainer, I would have died laughing, and in fact, smart mouth that I am, I probably would have said something like,,,"well you taking the dogs worked great , now I see what i"m doing wrong" LMBO


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

At least it's free. You are able to get a refund on the training until the last training class at petsmart. I would have got a refund for sure. It sounds like this guy just came back from his three week training course to make him a certified petsmart trainer, or doesn't have the certificate at all and has only sat in on classes.

At petsmart they do not allow training collars. They are taught that they are evil and abusive without ever even trying them. They really don't know ANYTHING about them, so unless they are a trainer that has been trained elsewhere their opinion on training collars is completely worthless. He's just feeding you stuff he read out of a pamphlet.


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## pinkanml (Sep 3, 2007)

Yeah, Petsmart definitely will not allow its trainers to endorse the use of any type of choke, pinch, or e-collar in the training classes. I used to work at one caring for the animals and would always bring my dogs (had a foster, so that made 3 shepherds) in on my off days to work with them. So many of the employees and the manager were impressed that the manager asked that I become a trainer. We had one decent trainer and one complete idiot who needed to be phased out. 

Well, after discussing this with the decent trainer, I found out that the official Petsmart dog training course I had to attend was totally against the use of any training collars aside from head halters and that Petsmart did not allow us to use them in class, nor instruct owners on their use outside class unless it was during a private lesson (and even then it was discouraged). 

If we were walking the store, looking to pick up clients and someone specifically asked how to use a prong, e-collar or choke they saw on the shelf, it was okay. The trainer I talked to basically said that when she had a client that had a dog in class that needed a prong, she had to tell them "on the down-low," to use it at home. I saw plenty of owners coming in with their dogs on prongs but they had to be removed for the class.

I refused to be told how I could or couldn't teach clients, so I didn't go through with the deal.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Inappropriate use of a prong is ...inappropriate. But, they can be a very useful tool. Beware those who out of pocket dismiss various training tools. It usually means they lack knowledge.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> so he suggests she wrap it around her right hand


This concerns me. He's advising a 110lb woman to wrap a leash around her right hand and hold with the left. Good way for her to get dragged when the dog goes to chase something. I'm wondering he if he knows JACK, did he say anything to the extent of on your left hand use your pinky finger closest to the dog?

Sounds like this trainer took a saturday certification course, here you were a cashier yesterday, today dog trainer because we haven't got anyone else. 

It's free so use it for what it's worth, socialization for your dog. If you like the prong for her, go with it proudly. It's a tool that works for her and there's no shame in that. I recommend them (and where to get it fitted of course) whole heartedly to every woman I see getting walked by a big exuberant young dog.


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## Lila (Dec 7, 2009)

I see that Baya is about the same age as Lila. She's over over 60 pounds and very strong. That said I have to endorse the use of the prong. Your boy and my girl have puppy brains in grown up (almost) bodies and are of a strong breed. 

I know that some are against "prongs" and I can probably agree with that for a large breed adult. By that stage they should be well trained and not as distracted... not to mention more willing to cooperate on their own.

We hope to "down grade" Lila to a flat collar once she is no longer a puppy or is well trained (which ever comes first).

In our OB class the trainers are not specifically against "prongs". I suspect that they're worried that the owners are aware or how to fit them and use them properly. This can't be stressed enough. If the "prong" is not fitted and worn and USED properly it can be a detriment to the dog. There are well over 100 dogs in this class and the owners of Large Breed dogs that didn't have prong collars on the first day have them now.


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## Bama4us (Oct 24, 2009)

In our 2nd week of OB class, the trainers thought Bear was gonna choke himself in a training collar from pulling so much and said to show up early the next week and they'd try a Martingale collar on him. I went out and bought a halti collar, it lasted 1 day of walking, and Bear chewed the side strap. I had a harness from another dog we had years ago, and tried that. I walked in the door of the training center and they greeted Bear with a prong collar. They told me to not pull to correct but let Bear correct himself if he tried pulling by stopping and letting him find out what happens when the leash is taunt. It did alter his pulling, but as soon as we left, off it came. I haven't used it at home, but each week of training he's wearing it. If I were you and can't receive a refund, I'd finish the class and find another place for the next stage. I'd also look for any opportunity to make this trainer look like a fool by correcting him with info you've found here from true experts! Ask questions you already know the answer to and see if he has any clue about training and be sure to point it out when he is wrong. Training should be fun for you and your dog, even if it's at the trainers expense. Have fun with it!


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

Thanks for all the responses 

middleofnowhere: I would so follow him to petco if they had one around, we drive an hour as is to get to class. 

Titonsdad: Yea it really worked well for us, I find it much more efficient then the others we have tried. We tried the harness which used to work when she was 20lbs lol then we tried the ones that lead from the front, no pull harnesses pretty much everything BUT the gentle leader and the prong, I'm glad we went with this one. Hopefully Titon will skip the teenage stage 

JakodaCD OA: I almost did laugh at the poor guy, poor Baya looked so annoyed. 

Syaoransbear: Yea I am very glad it's free or else i would be getting my money back. I find it really hypocritical of them to sell a product but not support it. 

pinkanml: I don't blaime you for not wanting the job but its cool that yours dogs were such a good reflection of your training  As I mentioned to Syaoransbear I think its rediculous that they sell somthing they don't support, especially when they don't have a good reason for not supporting it!

Samba: I agree, most people think only vicious dogs where prong collars, we got dirty looks even buying one.

SunCzarina: It definetly didn't sound like a good idea, I know when I was 16 I was walking our saint bernard when he was only about 10 months old, my sister takes off running and he drags me behind him trying to chase her. I broke my wrist and learned a very valuable lesson about big dogs :blush: He didn't mention anything about JACK(?) or her pinkie he just told her to wrap it around her right hand, put the rest behind her upper back, bring the other part around and hold onto it with her left hand. We may have to mention she should try it, but definetly stress the correct way to use it! 

Lila: We hope to switch Baya back to her flat collar also, but until she gets a little bit better manners shes stuck w/us "torturing" her  At the rate she picks things up I'm sure she wont be using one for long. Thats cool that your in a class that doesn't mind them, I wish petsmart would be a little more open minded or atleast do some research into it before deciding they are aweful.


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

Bama4us said:


> In our 2nd week of OB class, the trainers thought Bear was gonna choke himself in a training collar from pulling so much and said to show up early the next week and they'd try a Martingale collar on him. I went out and bought a halti collar, it lasted 1 day of walking, and Bear chewed the side strap. I had a harness from another dog we had years ago, and tried that. I walked in the door of the training center and they greeted Bear with a prong collar. They told me to not pull to correct but let Bear correct himself if he tried pulling by stopping and letting him find out what happens when the leash is taunt. It did alter his pulling, but as soon as we left, off it came. I haven't used it at home, but each week of training he's wearing it. If I were you and can't receive a refund, I'd finish the class and find another place for the next stage. I'd also look for any opportunity to make this trainer look like a fool by correcting him with info you've found here from true experts! Ask questions you already know the answer to and see if he has any clue about training and be sure to point it out when he is wrong. Training should be fun for you and your dog, even if it's at the trainers expense. Have fun with it!


Sounds like Bear and Baya have both made their way through collars  We definetly wont be going back to petsmart for classes! We should make him look like the o so "amazing" trainer he is (heavy sarcasm), its not like it would be hard he already did it himself


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Buy velcro, put one side in the in and the other in the out of the prong collar, then it looks like a flat collar. It works marvelous when you don't want to be excusing yourself and educating people on a simple dog walk. For what you say of your trainer, he wont even notice it


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Then the great dane wont walk at all without pulling so he suggests she wrap it around her right hand, put the rest being her upper back, bring the other part around and hold onto it with the left hand. That way when she pulls they have a better hold of her. Did I mention the sophies (the great dane) owner is an older lady that maybe weighs 110lbs?? The great dane was jerking HIM around with no problems, if she tried that I doubt it would work for her at all.


He should have tried the weenie walker on this dog!!!
I think petco/petsmart are anti prong for the most part. I am sorry, but I personally wouldn't waste my dogs or my time at either one, unless I had NO other options.
I'd rather travel 2 hrs(time waste!) for a better place to train.
Catu is right and there are now collars that hide the prongs.

That Don Sullivan guy has marketed his "perfect command" collar for toy breeds...very sad what some will buy into.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

I can't see very clearly from the picture on his site. WTH is a command collar? Plastic prong?

I see he also sells something called "Freedom Training Lines" ... or as I call it, a leash.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

He doesn't show it clearly as he wants to keep it secret~LOL!
I work for a lady with a 20# goldendoodle and the dog has the collar on 24/7. It is a plastic prong with a cloth outercover. Poor little $3000 goldendoodle..how can a 20# dog drag anyone around??
Just looked at the goldendoodle site and the economy must have reduced the price. and amount of litters they are producing...


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

It sounds like this is one of those trainers whose only experience is going through Petsmart's dog trainer course. Not the best situation there but I guess you can try to do what you can with it since the classes are free. Are you not allowed to use a training collar in class at all? If so I would consider possibly trying one of the devices they DO let you use, just so you can get some benefit from the class without having the dog pulling the whole time. Either that or try out one of the loose-leash walking methods without using a training collar. If your dog is just going to be pulling through the class, there's really no point in going to the classes because you will just be reinforcing the pulling behavior.

Personally I don't care for prongs. I used them in the past for quite a while and they were effective in that the dogs don't pull as much when wearing one, but in the long term it was just a management tool and did not really help in the training. Additionally a correction at the wrong time can cause more problems (such as the dog tries to pull towards other dogs, gets a correction from the collar (or "self corrects" or whatever you want to call it)-- they may learn to connect that correction with seeing other dogs and could develop issues with other dogs because of that.

If you're interested in trying something without the prong to work on pulling, what has worked the best for me is penalty yards. Basically the second the leash is taut you start backing up, and walk briskly backward until there is slack in the leash and then move forward again-- no jerking on the leash, just steadily moving backward. If the dog pulls towards something, he only gets further away. You can do this with or without a training collar, front attach harness, gentle leader or whatever. Personally I use a flat buckle collar because I want my dog to walk well on a flat collar, but if you have a really strong dog and can't pull him back you might need to use a training collar/harness at first. In the beginning there will be a lot of moving backwards and you won't get very far but a smart dog will learn pretty quickly that pulling doesn't work and to move forward again they need to have the leash slack. Eventually you'll only need to back up a few steps for them to get the point and will have to back up less and less often. I used this for my (very strong) terrier mix who was a confirmed puller-- when I found him as a stray at 4-5 years old he was wearing a harness and had no idea how to walk on a leash without pulling. I tried several training devices including a prong (recommended by our trainer) but as much as I worked on his training, he'd still pull as soon as the leash was connected to a flat collar, until I finally tried this method when he was about 8 years old.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

If the trainer you like went to Petco, just go there and train with him again..


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I bet those "penalty yards" did work well. The large movement makes it pretty clear to the dog. You are right that dogs can become collarwise so the learning has to happen on all of them. I try to remember to keep that switching going so they learn what is expected. Good explanation of your approach.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Yeah unfortunately my terrier was just too smart-- collar savvy as they say. Before I switched to the 'penalty yards', even with all the work on loose leash walking and heeling, when I would try to switch the leash from the prong to his regular collar (keeping the prong still on him) he'd immediately start pulling.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

To stop pulling with a flat collar, stop moving forward when the dog pulls. So your walks or training sessions won't be flashy or fast or far for a while? Yeah well they won't but you can get there without a prong collar.

There are a slew of books out there that talk about training without compulsion & therefore without these sort of tools.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I've seen plenty of people at my club request a prong for their dog because they are just lazy and want an easy way to control their dog without training. But there are also good reasons to use a prong. And I've rarely seen one fitted correctly. 

Do you really want to go back to this trainer? I'd run away as fast as I could, eat the cost and find a better trainer.


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

I thought prongs were evil until I tried one. I tried it on my own neck before I put it on my dogs and it doesn't hurt. I used it for Dozer's training but now I don't need it. They are great trining tools if used correctly. I feel that it should not be a forever thing though. I actually put it on him the other day and it doesn't even fit anymore, lol, thats how long it has been.

I even started using them on my Cairn terriers who pulled like sled dogs on our walks. Walking the 3 of them with the little ones pulling was a chore. Now none of them pull and I love walking all 3.

Prongs were recommended to me by my vet, breeder, trainer and daycare owner when he was young. I am so glad I reasearched it and did not listen to anyone b/c it has made everything so much better. Dozer weighs close to 95 lbs and I weigh 120lbs so I could not risk having him pull me or me having no control, he could pull me off my feet, with the training with the prong collar I put the leash in my pocket and do not even hold on now. I also used positive reinforcement, treats and commands, the prong collar was more of a self correction, if he pulled he pretty much caused the pressure from the collar, he figured it out quickly.
Only problem was he became "collar smart" and could tell when it was on, with the flat buckle he got a little more daring so I started mixing it up.

Do not let people discourage you, make your own decision. I brought him to a class and the trainer told me to take the prong collar off immediately and she did not allow it, I told her I wanted a refund and I left. I find people who think they are horrible do not know enough about them, just like me.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I don't really see anything that suggests that the trainer is horrible. He can't go against his employer policy and suggest prong collars, he may not have a whole lot experience yet, so yeah, let's go and 'look for any opportunity to make this trainer look like a fool by correcting him with info you've found here from true experts'. The only thing I wonder is the quality of 'true experts' who are so eager to give advice over the internet without even seeing a dog, and who are struggling with making their dog obey themselves.

The moment we learn to drive and get on the road for the first time we all think we are Schumachers and everyone else is an idiot unable to drive and trying to make our life difficult. Have you noticed that with time and experience the number of idiots on the road magically decreases? 

I'm very glad that many of you discovered prong collars but you are soon to discover that they are not an answer to all questions. You will discover that there is no 'one fits all' trainer and the best way to accumulate knowledge is to absorb everything from all sources you can access including trainers at Petsmart. If you don't trust the trainer then do not let him handle your dog (I never do anymore) and use the training session for working on your own stuff. Good luck.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No, prongs are not evil. My biggest issue with them is that too many people rely on them and do not grow out of them. 

I do not use them.

But this guys idea of positive training is disgusting. First of all, for dogs that are a year old and older, a play session is really not the thing to do in obedience classes. I do not like them in puppy classes, but what was he thinking? I would have told people to tell their dogs to Settle or focus on them, or to Quiet. 

I guess it depends on what you are looking for in training. Since I trial mine at shows, I do not want them "playing" in the class session. It is too close to a show atmosphere. 

PetsMart sells prong collars, but they do not allow them to be taught by their trainers. It sounds like you got the guy that I signed Ninja up with. His entire dog experience was the ownership of a poorly trained young blood hound. That and his PetsMart handbook qualified him to teach an obedience class which cost 50% more than classes taught by rally/obedience judges. I do not get it. 

Sorry, for ranting in your rant.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What I see as horrible, is telling the dog a command over and over, instead of telling the dog, and then helping the dog get there. 

There are other ways to prevent pulling. One way is to stop following. Another is with special collars. Prongs, are one, Gentle leaders are another. I do not go for Gentle Leaders or Halti's either. 

A decent instructor NEEDS to be able to size up the handlers and the dogs and have an arsenal of techniques to help them find what will work best.

A leader does not fight those he leads. They follow him. The prong collar will give control without any fighting. Whereas the halters tend to have a lot of fighting at least at first, dogs fight the halter. Either of them are better than fighting with the dog every time you try to go for a walk.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Sometimes a command needs repeating during the process of teaching a dog what the command means. We are walking, the dog pulls, I stop, the dog stops, I say 'slow' and we are walking again and within seconds the process repeats itself. Yeah, I will be saying 'slow' pretty often because I do teach the dog. 

The horrible thing for me is a self-proclaimed 'Cesar Millan' who tells the command ones and then corrects the dog hard demanding compliance before the dog understands what is going on. The Petsmart trainer above actually gave the Dane owner a pretty good technique to handle the dog taking the owners and the dogs size under account. If you hold the leash in your right hand, then put it behind over your upper body and then hold it in your left hand as well then you have a pretty good control over a large dog. Sue, do you really think that a prong on a hyper GD would be such a good idea as a control tool for a tiny older lady?


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## Lila (Dec 7, 2009)

If the goal is "participation" in events (walking is an event) and not "compliance" which is based upon demand then what I feel is necessary is making the dog understand what is being required/asked. Sure, it takes a while ... repeat, repeat and repeat again. 

Time and patience and some empathy for this strange, alien creature that we've chosen to share our lives with is what's required. I wish I knew as much years ago when I was just starting out with dog ownership. Age and experience makes me mellow and less likely to "insist" that my aliens understand my "language" or "needs".

A "prong collar" helps me get this point across with the least amount of trauma, either vocally of physically.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Doubleminttwin said:


> S Then the great dane wont walk at all without pulling so he suggests she wrap it around her right hand, put the rest being her upper back, bring the other part around and hold onto it with the left hand. That way when she pulls they have a better hold of her. Did I mention the sophies (the great dane) owner is an older lady that maybe weighs 110lbs?? The great dane was jerking HIM around with no problems, if she tried that I doubt it would work for her at all.
> 
> 
> I am an older lady (55) and weigh 100 and got a dislocated shoulder and road rashes a few years ago with that method when my normally well behaved GSD, took me off guard when he decided to chase a cat, and dragged me several yards.!
> ...


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Hey Debbie, at 55 you are no way an older lady!! I was thinking 75 or 80 when wrists do not have so much power and it's a good idea to use force of the entire body. GD is a tall dog and in order to use the prong correctly the leash has to be held pretty high.

When my dog decides he would want to pull to chase a cat then I would be flying like a balloon after him even if he worn a prong, or choke, or whatever. That's why I do not rely on collars but on voice commands (that we trained and keep training).


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## RebelMoonGSDs (Oct 1, 2009)

I have to say, I used to think prong collars were mean...but then I was taught the right way to use one (and how to fit one). I developed this method for walks (Note: This was working with a then 2 year old GSD who was at the time very strong willed and knew he could drag me around, I was 14 years old and weighed all of 75lbs):

I would put the prong on, and I'd keep my dog's flat collar on lower down on his neck. We'd start the walk on the prong, and then when he was walking nicely and listening, we'd switch to the buckle but leave the prong on. If he started to act up/pull again and didn't respond to corrections on the flat, we'd switch back to the prong until he was calm/not pulling again, then go back to the flat. Over time, we spent more time on the flat collar than the prong. Eventually we were no longer even needing of the prong collar. I sort of phased it out, and it took only about 5-6 months to do. Like, "If you walk nicely, you're on this nice comfy collar, but if you start being a but.t.head, you go back on the owie one." 

Bear (the dog I learned to do this with) never once was unhappy to see the prong collar. He'd get excited to see it and go sit by the door patiently, tail wagging a mile a minute. He knew that the prong meant a walk, and though it corrected him, it was also the source of a positive experience- a walk.


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## Yvette (Jan 29, 2001)

Oh where, oh where have all the good trainers gone? They are not near me. We had to train on our own. When I first started training Dakota. We used the prong collar, which, she still loves to this day. I took her to one trainer that insisted I take the prong off & then proceeded to shove treats down dakota's throught! After I told the trainer that DaKota did not eat treats outside off my home & Was very head shy from being beaten! Thank goodnees this was a one time thing!


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