# Aggressive 11 month old…



## David W (9 mo ago)

Remarkably Aggressive 11 Month Old GSD Male Puppy...towards other humans and dogs…

Hi, all.

This is my first post on GermanShepherds.com.

I'm grateful to all of you who may respond to this post as my wife and I are quite concerned about our puppy's aberrant, aggressive and dangerous-to-others behavior.

Firstly, this is not our first German Shepherd. Over the almost 40 years of marriage we've owned three prior to this puppy. And, my wife's family owned many others when she was younger and before we were married.

So, we're not novices with this breed. And, I request those who may respond to recognize that prior experience and to accept that we know how remarkably different from our previous GSDs is this puppy.

Secondly, when he's not aggressively aroused he is quite loving to me and my wife (no children left at home anymore as we're in our 60's and they're long gone).

But when he's aroused at another dog or human and if we, as required of us, attempt to restrain him, even when he's wearing a prong collar, a muzzle, and attached to sturdy leash he's unmanageable and aggressive towards us and others to include attempts to bite us even through his muzzle. Actually, we sustained numerous bites from him early in our ownership of him while we were trying to restrain him after arousal even before we muzzled him.

It's as if he has a switch in his brain as he goes from utterly calm to highly aggressive in a moment of time. And, it takes many minutes of isolation from the stimulus for him to calm down enough that we feel safe enough to approach him. No kidding, the arousal, as signaled by his heavy breathing, doesn't cease for more than a half hour after the stimulus is no longer present.

At about 9 months he was 96 lbs. I'm sure he's heavier now at 11 months. He's also what I believe to be near his adult weight within a few pounds. Accordingly, he's very, very strong when he's aroused. Furthermore, while on a leash when aroused he has pulled me over several times that I now wear a knee brace for my left knee which was seriously injured in one of his aggressive episodes.

Despite my age of 69, I'm descended from central Texas Germans and am quite sturdy and strong. My wife, however, is American-born Chinese and of slight stature. She absolutely cannot handle him when he's aroused. At the risk of seeming overbearing, I've forbidden her from handling him outside the home and off our property where she might encounter strangers...I feel it's best for her and for any innocent stranger she and the dog may encounter.

Across the street from our home lives a Gentleman and his wife, both close friends or ours, who currently own 4 GSDs which are well-behaved. They are shocked at my dog's behavior.

The Gentleman, reporting good results in the past from neutering one of his overly aggressive male GSDs. I don't know how old the dog was when neutered. And, I'd be grateful to anyone who can advise us on the wisdom or not of neutering a near 1 year old GSD.

We have tried medications, vet proscribed medications, to help settle him down both in our presence and in the presence of others. Currently, he takes two daily doses (one dose in the A.M. and one in the P.M.) of two tables of Trazodone, 100 mg.

Other GSD owners and even professional dog trainers, when consulted, have been surprised at that level of daily dosing of anti-anxiety medication. We've never before owned a GSD with these difficulties so we don't have and "index of reference" to judge the advice of others on his medications. But given the uniformity of their reservations and surprise, I suspect my GSDs dosing is highly unusual.

Although we're eager to hear from other experienced GSD owners on how we might successfully address our problems with our GSD, we are considering other more drastic measures.

We are not rich. And, a lawsuit filed against us if this dog were to attack and seriously injure another person, especially during this recession and pandemic, would likely break us financially. That's an outcome we need to avoid at all costs.

Again, I'm delighted to hear from any willing respondent on this forum on how best we might proceed.

Absolutely the best,

David


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Your pup sounds like a handful for sure! 

How old was he when you got him? What training has he had? What things have you done to address his aggressiveness? What's his daily routine like, exercise and play wise?

Have you consulted with his breeder at all? What are his siblings like?


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## brittanyS (Dec 11, 2018)

Unfortunately, I don’t have any suggestions for you regarding your dog - there are several knowledgeable members here who will chime in, I’m sure. But I did want to advise you that you may want to edit your post to remove your last names and email. While I don’t believe any of the regular posters here would do anything bad with that information, you might be surprised at what bad actors could do with it.

Here’s an article about someone who had several of their personal accounts hacked after the wrong people were able to access their email account. https://www.wired.com/2012/08/apple-amazon-mat-honan-hacking/


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

Do you have any information on his pedigree? You may have a dog more suited for police and military work than neighborhood strolls. As you’re seeing there is a vast variety of temperment and behavior amongst GSDs. Definitely would get in touch with the breeder about all this and see what they think.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

brittanyS said:


> Unfortunately, I don’t have any suggestions for you regarding your dog - there are several knowledgeable members here who will chime in, I’m sure. But I did want to advise you that you may want to edit your post to remove your last names and email. While I don’t believe any of the regular posters here would do anything bad with that information, you might be surprised at what bad actors could do with it.
> 
> Here’s an article about someone who had several of their personal accounts hacked after the wrong people were able to access their email account. https://www.wired.com/2012/08/apple-amazon-mat-honan-hacking/


Done, and thanks.

David


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Please send me his pedigree - you probably cannot PM me here....but my address is [email protected]

Lee


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. I don't even have a suggestion other than to rehome him into a more appropriate setting. He is not a pet with his behavior now. Knowing you have experience with strong willed dogs I have to assume it's not you or how you are handling him. He also sounds big for his age - have you research his DNA? Is it possible he's a wolf hybrid? They can become overly aggressive as they reach maturity. I understand how attached to him you probably are by now and his future will be a difficult decision. Consider sharing his breeder and pedigree, there are some really knowledgeable people here. And Welcome to the forum, I just wish it was under better circumstances. For DNA we used Embark and were satisfied, we had concerns we adopted a wolf hybrid. Fortunately for us Duke turned out to be just a big silly happy dog.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

tim_s_adams said:


> Your pup sounds like a handful for sure!
> 
> How old was he when you got him? What training has he had? What things have you done to address his aggressiveness? What's his daily routine like, exercise and play wise?
> 
> Have you consulted with his breeder at all? What are his siblings like?


I'm not exactly sure how old he was when we got him as the wife identified the "breeder" and in large part conducted the transaction. But, he was probably no older than about 8 weeks.

Here's a pic of me holding him on arrival...










I'm not in the business of either condemning others or shirking deserved blame. But my magnificently wonderful wife handled all the details of the purchase. I just drove the truck to the breeders home, paid the previously agreed upon price and brought them both home. I never saw the Sire or Dam. And, as the wife seemed decided on this puppy, I didn't do the due diligence I should have done.

Again, this statement is not intended to condemn or criticize my wife. But after the puppy got older and demonstrated hyper aggressive behaviors she let on that on her visit before the purchase was consummated she had concerns about the seemingly unduly aggressive nature (towards her) of the Sire. She hadn't mentioned that to me, at all.

We've always worked with professional breeders in the past with good reputations. And, we've together always had great luck with our choices. But, previously we always first considered the breeder's reputation, and, we BOTH visited the site and viewed both the animals, particularly the Sire and Dam, and the puppies. This time...no...unfortunately.

Backyard breeder...

Yes, we've consulted with his breeder in the hopes he'd take him back, without a refund to us. No dice.

Regarding his daily routine...I'm retired. And, it's not that I don't have anything else to do around our home. But, of late and in an effort to try to rehabilitate the dog or change his instincts I've spent a great deal of time with him. I bought a tricycle (grand pappy bike) and I leash him to the small pipe that holds the seat where I sit. And, I muzzle him.

Generally speaking, I use that setup to run the dog...certainly near a mile in the mornings before his breakfast. I chose the mornings as there are fewer people and especially fewer people with dogs in tow that time of day. Still, if we encounter anyone walking their dog or merely jogging he reacts to their presence aggressively.

I also play a vigorous game of fetch in the backyard with him perhaps every other day.

I have no information on his pedigree. The wife handled this and I don't believe the pedigree of the dog for her was "top of mind".

Likewise, I have no knowledge of the behavior of his siblings..., and, I shudder to think what it might be.

His training has been rudimentary, sit, stay, come, lay down, etc. He's does marginally well with those simple commands at this time. As time goes on he seems to obey with more regularity and without treats.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Please do not neuter him (yet) before you know where his future home may be, either with you or somewhere where he has a serious job to do and he needs his hormones for drive. Also this behavior is not caused by hormones. Many of us have intact males that never act that way. It's good that you have contacted this forum as you will get the help and support. I understand that you are healthy and strong but I am your age and I know things can go south quickly and you may not be able to handle him physically later on. As an illustration: I gave up a nice male because of that and at a similar age as yours. I had an injury that required an unknown time of healing and I just couldn't handle this adolescent powerful male any longer. When he became disobedient, my heart sank. I had the choice to give him back to his breeder/trainer or to ruin him and his chances for a successful adoption later on. I did heal but it took quite some time and sometimes I wonder if it would have worked but I made the decision at that time based on what I knew then. I think you will decide wisely.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Your dog needs training, not anti anxiety medication or neutering. He’s so young. He has strong drives, he needs to be taught to control his impulses, to hear you even with triggers present, you need to learn to control your dog and not to be afraid of your dog. I’m not talking about sit/stay for a treat. 

You cannot change his instincts. It’s also not a good idea to run your dog for miles at this young age while his joints are still open, and flood him with triggers that reinforce his overreaction.

Also, when your dog has lost it, please just quietly remove him from the situation. A prong collar is not the right tool here either, it will just create the opposite effect.

Have you done any positive training?

Itse not that something is wrong with the dog, it’s just a mismatch happened. I would suggest to rehome.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

GSD07 said:


> Your dog needs training, not anti anxiety medication or neutering. He’s so young. He has strong drives, he needs to be taught to control his impulses, to hear you even with triggers present, you need to learn to control your dog and not to be afraid of your dog. I’m not talking about sit/stay for a treat.
> 
> You cannot change his instincts. It’s also not a good idea to run your dog for miles at this young age while his joints are still open, and flood him with triggers that reinforce his overreaction.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input.

Best,

David


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

I get it - you bought him with your heart, not your head. You certainly are not the first to do that. It sounds like you might want to get him evaluated by someone who knows the breed and can possibly find a more appropriate setting for him. Is that possible for you?


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I've no advice. I know that if you can post a video of the behavior it can help in assessment of what you say is happening and what a trained eye may see as happening. If you can do this safely. You will have to post the video to you tube and share the link here.
Those who can help the most need to see the behavior.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

Apex1 said:


> I've no advice. I know that if you can post a video of the behavior it can help in assessment of what you say is happening and what a trained eye may see as happening. If you can do this safely. You will have to post the video to you tube and share the link here.
> Those who can help the most need to see the behavior.


Good advice. Thank you.

Best,

David


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

the two recommendations I can give you. One is video of the dog can help us see what’s going on. You can upload the video to YouTube and copy-paste the link here. The other is that you are best off consulting an in person trainer. I have a friend near Austin I can put you in contact with if you want.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I'll wait until some more experienced trainers chime in but imo, this is part of the problem: nearly year old, large, powerful male GSD, experienced owners yet,
"His training has been *rudimentary*, sit, stay, come, lay down, etc. He's does *marginally* well with those simple commands at this time. As time goes on he *seems to obey with more regularity and without treats*."

When (at what age) did this first happen and how did you address it at that time? As you know, cutting off undesirable actions are far easier when built on a foundation of solid obedience from a young age.

"Actually, we sustained *numerous bites from him early in our ownership of him* while we were trying to restrain him after arousal even before we muzzled him."

So this has been going on for a long time? Best to you David.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

Bearshandler said:


> the two recommendations I can give you. One is video of the dog can help us see what’s going on. You can upload the video to YouTube and copy-paste the link here. The other is that you are best off consulting an in person trainer. I have a friend near Austin I can put you in contact with if you want.


Thank you for the response.

OK with the video.

We already contacted two personal trainers and, given our description of his difficulties, their approximate quotes for both training and boarding were well beyond our budget, most well over $1,200.

The puppy cost $800.

For $1,200 dollars plus we could just buy another puppy...after doing better due diligence this time, of course.

But thanks for the input and the offer.

Best,

David


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## David W (9 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> I'll wait until some more experienced trainers chime in but imo, this is part of the problem: nearly year old, large, powerful male GSD, experienced owners yet,
> "His training has been *rudimentary*, sit, stay, come, lay down, etc. He's does *marginally* well with those simple commands at this time. As time goes on he *seems to obey with more regularity and without treats*."
> 
> When (at what age) did this first happen and how did you address it at that time? As you know, cutting off undesirable actions are far easier when built on a foundation of solid obedience from a young age.
> ...


So this has been going on for a long time?

Yes. Perhaps for about 5 - 6 months with the difficulties becoming more pronounced as time went on.

Thank you for the kind wishes.

Best,

David


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

David, if the cost of training is over your budget, please rehome him to an experienced home before he starts to injure anyone. If feel he is at a breaking point and you are too. I mean this with respect. It may cost some bucks to have him evaluated so you can find the best spot for him. You owe that to him. Sometimes it's good to take a step back and remember your life before him. We tend to get desensitized to problems. Have a serious conversation with your wife and decide together this time.


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## David W (9 mo ago)




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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

wolfy dog said:


> David, if the cost of training is over your budget, please rehome him to an experienced home before he starts to injure anyone. If feel he is at a breaking point and you are too. I mean this with respect. It may cost some bucks to have him evaluated so you can find the best spot for him. You owe that to him. Sometimes it's good to take a step back and remember your life before him. We tend to get desensitized to problems. Have a serious conversation with your wife and decide together this time.


What are the realistic re homing options? Who would be interested in such a dog?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Sonny1984 said:


> What are the realistic re homing options? Who would be interested in such a dog?


Depends on a professional evaluation. Sometimes all a dog like this needs, is a strong leader who puts him to work, given that he is genetically OK.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

Sonny1984 said:


> What are the realistic re homing options? Who would be interested in such a dog?


Exactly!

We did try to return the dog to the breeder...with the $800 purchase price of the animal just chalked up to inadequate due diligence on our part.

But the wife of the breeder was concerned about the dog getting along well with their 11 year old daughter.

I can only imagine why she had that reservation. But, given that the Sire appeared to be problematic to my wife when she first visited the, well, "kennel" I suspect that the wife was concerned, justifiably concerned, that the puppy may share the Sire's aggressive nature.

On arrival and dismounting ourselves and the dog and approaching the family which was awaiting us just outside their front door, Kaiser (that's the dog's name) went ballistic. It goes without saying that I could just barely contain him.

Under no circumstances would they take him back, understandably so.

Frankly, I was more than just chagrined given my knowledge of how problematic Kaiser had become to have through my reluctance to properly inform them of his nature if he'd have harmed that lovely child.

I'm sure I'd never be able to live down my irresponsibility in returning him if he'd have harmed that child. So, I'm grateful that the "breeders" declined to take him back.

Sonny1984, thank you for voicing your reservations about re-homing Kaiser. Frankly, I was surprised that others on this forum advocated for re-homing given my detailed post about his quite dangerous behavior.

Best,

David


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

From your detailed post it was only obvious that you were not the right home for that dog. It was also clear that you do not have experience to evaluate your dog thats why it was advised to reach out to a third party for eval. Are you really surprised that nobody told you to put the dog down and go get a new puppy? Its a German shepherd site, ppl here advocate for German shepherds first.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

David W said:


> Exactly!
> 
> We did try to return the dog to the breeder...with the $800 purchase price of the animal just chalked up to inadequate due diligence on our part.
> 
> ...


There are plenty of people who could handle the dog. It’s just most want a puppy or a green dog - not a high drive dog that has spent it’s formative years in the wrong hands. I agree it’s not suitable for the average pet home. It is certainly worth trying to rehome and making a serious effort do so. It may work out easier than you or I think.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

David W said:


> Frankly, I was surprised that others on this forum advocated for re-homing given my detailed post about his quite dangerous behavior.


Rehoming this dog doesn't mean advertising him on Craigslist or to rehome him to just anyone who wants him. If you decide you cannot keep him, why not contact IPO clubs or contact trainers for resources to evaluate his options? He is still young. I am sure many vets are happy to euthanize him with this story. In the end it is up to you. Last : where are you located? I am sure Deja's breeder can evaluate him. He is in OR.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Sonny1984 said:


> There are plenty of people who could handle the dog. It’s just most want a puppy or a green dog - not a high drive dog that has spent it’s formative years in the wrong hands. I agree it’s not suitable for the average pet home. It is certainly worth trying to rehome and making a serious effort do so. It may work out easier than you or I think.


This sounds different than your earlier response of "What are the realistic re homing options? Who would be interested in such a dog?" Did you change your mind?


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

wolfy dog said:


> This sounds different than your earlier response of "What are the realistic re homing options? Who would be interested in such a dog?" Did you change your mind?


I think people are reading too much into it. I’m skeptical whether or not this dog can be appropriately rehomed. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t try. 

And I asked hoping to spur some ideas for the OP. He’s been in over his head for month’s now and rehoming will be a challenge. I encourage and applaud him to try.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Talk to BH about his buddy and get an evaluation. I'll be around Austin in February if you still have the dog and I'll do an evaluation for free if you bring him to me.

This is just too much dog for you IMO. No foundation. No impulse control. Now he thinks he's the boss.

Get some help and get this dog into appropriate hands.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I have been told that rehoming a dog right now is very competitive there are many dogs needing a home.
This poster needs resources for the potential rehoming. This is a process and it's not likely to be fast.

In the mean time we should encourage you to help the dog with the behavior and behavior modification. Fetch every other day isn't going to cut it. These dogs are not couch potatoes.

How much outdoor space to you have to work with the dog outside? I'm happy to offer potential training exercises, nosework games, impulse control ideas. Start building a working relationship with your dog.

I'd also be interested in your use of the prong collar how you use it. You don't have to take the dog anywhere if you can make being home enjoyable and SAFE. It's likely not as bad as you may think. This dog will need structure, training and mental challenges like 2-3 hours a day. If your interested maybe we can help you while you make your decisions.

Listen carefully to David Winners.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

Sonny1984 said:


> There are plenty of people who could handle the dog. It’s just most want a puppy or a green dog - not a high drive dog that has spent it’s formative years in the wrong hands. I agree it’s not suitable for the average pet home. It is certainly worth trying to rehome and making a serious effect do so. It may work out easier than you or I think.


"not a high drive dog that has spent it’s formative years in the wrong hands."

Two things...

Firstly we've only had the dog after his purchase for about 9 or 10 months (again, I don't know his B-day)...not years.

Secondly, we have substantial experience raising GSDs, as pointed out in my original post. Kaiser's our 4th. And, my wife and her family owned and raised GSDs throughout her childhood and early adolescence and even well into her college years.

Indeed, for reasons I choose not to disclose her parents owned only protection-trained GSDs. Such dogs are very "high drive".

But I tend to agree with your assessment that he's not suitable for the "average pet home". Regrettably, such "pet homes" are clearly in the majority of homes the owners of which may be interested in adopting Kaiser.

That said, the members of this forum seem to believe that they absolutely have enough experience to "handle"
Kaiser and that their experience is well beyond that which my wife and I have had over many years with our previous GSDs. I don't know any of you well enough to judge.

And, at least one in response to my recent post has written here that his priorities and perhaps also those of others here is the dogs. But the welfare of the humans which could be harmed by a vicious dog...goes without mention.

Accordingly, to those who believe that they could "handle" Kaiser better than us I offer Kaiser's ownership to them. Interested parties can simply identify their interest to me via this forum and provide a means to contact them to arrange the transfer of the dog...the cost of transport of the dog I'll happily pay.

Best,

David


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Sonny1984 said:


> What are the realistic re homing options? Who would be interested in such a dog?


It depends. If there’s one thing that has be affirmed in my mind recently, it’s most dog owners don’t know their dogs as well as they think they do and don’t know how to communicate with their dog. This could be as simple as the dog not being told he can’t do that and given better choices to make. It could be a young overstimulated dog that never gets out so he loses his mind anytime he sees anyone. It could be a hyper aggressive dog. It could be a nerve bag. I wouldn’t be sure on any of that right now. Depending on the actual personality, there are homing options.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

Apex1 said:


> I have been told that rehoming a dog right now is very competitive there are many dogs needing a home.
> This poster needs resources for the potential rehoming. This is a process and it's not likely to be fast.
> 
> In the mean time we should encourage you to help the dog with the behavior and behavior modification. Fetch every other day isn't going to cut it. These dogs are not couch potatoes.
> ...


Thank you for the kind, generous and polite reply...without undue condemnation of a new forum member who came here to learn rather than to be harangued and degraded in quite unseemly fashions.

Best,

David


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

David W said:


> "not a high drive dog that has spent it’s formative years in the wrong hands."
> 
> Two things...
> 
> ...


The right answer is to have an experienced trainer evaluate the dog. I'm not trying to downplay your experience or your commitment to this dog. There is a steep learning curve to handling high drive dogs. I experienced this myself and it was an eye opener to say the least. I was a successful professional trainer for a decade before I experienced my first working dog and I struggled. Everything happens so fast and I was always behind the dog.

There are some red flags in your posts about part time obedience and this points towards less than exemplary foundation work, which is normally ok with a typical pet dog, but can create havoc with a dog that wants to GO. Typically, this creates habits, patterns and expectations that are counterpoint to the goals of the owners.

My dog has 1.5 seconds to down after I give the command or he gets a correction. This kind of accountability doesn't exist in the pet world and if you slack on a high drive dog, it carries over into the rest of life.

Everyone here wants the best for your family and your dog. We only want to help. I have certainly been over my head with a dog and it's through the help of others that I was successful.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

David (OP), I agree that humans come first, that's why we all are coming up with ideas and solutions; to solve it for you and the dog. I agree with David Winners; I trained pet dogs for about 15 years and thought that the clicker was the gospel when that technique came about. Until I got my first WL GSD. That required an entire different approach. Deja is my heart dog but once in a while she still tests me, like today: walking an inch past my knee, and trying for more. Nope! Not going to happen. I am sure when others see me correcting her, that I will get the looks.
OP, it looks like you have decided to rehome him. Take your time to save his life by finding the best owner. for whom he could be a diamond in the rough.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> Rehoming this dog doesn't mean advertising him on Craigslist or to rehome him to just anyone who wants him. If you decide you cannot keep him, why not contact IPO clubs or contact trainers for resources to evaluate his options? He is still young. I am sure many vets are happy to euthanize him with this story. In the end it is up to you. Last : where are you located? I am sure Deja's breeder can evaluate him. He is in OR.


I live in Spring, Texas...just north of the northern Houston city limits.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

David Winners said:


> Talk to BH about his buddy and get an evaluation. I'll be around Austin in February if you still have the dog and I'll do an evaluation for free if you bring him to me.
> 
> This is just too much dog for you IMO. No foundation. No impulse control. Now he thinks he's the boss.
> 
> Get some help and get this dog into appropriate hands.


Dan,

That's a very kind offer...to evaluate him without charge if we could bring him to you...in February 2023, if I read your post above correctly.

Dan, that's a very long time into the future. Perhaps too long a period.

Also, the dog has a very disturbing trait when he's a passenger in my truck (a 2014 3/4 ton Dodge Ram pickup, four door with a full 8' bed).

That disturbing trait is that as I'm driving and if he sees another person either walking outside alone or especially if walking with another dog he snaps and enters one of his "ballistic", aggressive modes, barks ferociously and lunges aggressively...despite wearing a muzzle and with his lead secured to the headrest to limit his movement when he has one of these fits.

Why restrain him like that? Well, because in these incidents he becomes highly agitated and if not restrained he'll invariably find a way to force himself ON ME as I'm driving. Weighing over 100 lbs. now he's very nearly caused me to lose control of the vehicle several times.

Initially, I allowed him to ride in the front passenger seat. But the incidents of him becoming incendiary and interfering with my driving became so frequent and dangerous that I then decided to secure him tightly to the headrest of the back seat, instead. Even secured there he has the freedom to lay on the seat if not aroused, to sit on the floor board or to sit on the seat and look out the adjoining window.

The front bench seat has a middle section that can be folded up or down. At present, there is no built-in way to secure that section in either the upright or folded position. And, when agitated he takes advantage of that to, again, try to attack me while I'm driving if he sees anyone with or without an accompanying dog. Heck, he's even figured out that adjoining vehicles contain people and he reacts similarly viciously towards the drivers and/or passengers.

My wife purchased a no-see-through mask for him that rides on his upper head and covers his eyes. For a few days he accepted the mask and was quiescent in the vehicle. Then he decided he didn't like the mask and fights like the Devil when I try to put it on him...to the point that the mask can no longer be used for its intended purpose.

I've considered putting a dog pen fort him in the bed of the truck to contain him and prevent him from interfering with my driving. But I believe that in the elevated position where he can see even better than in the cab of the vehicle he'll just be even more agitated towards others during the drive and will likely frighten the daylights out of innocent passersby.

So, although I'm very much grateful for your offer to evaluate him in the future if we could bring him to Austin when you're there, given his behavior in the vehicle I don't think driving him to Austin is a viable option.

Best,

David


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

David W said:


> Dan,
> 
> That's a very kind offer...to evaluate him without charge if we could bring him to you...in February 2023, if I read your post above correctly.
> 
> ...


i’m pretty sure _David_ would be willing to evaluate him anywhere / anytime if you were willing to transport the dog to him… February is just the soonest he plans to be closer to you. i did not interpret his offer to mean idly wait until then.

as far as the truck…. crate him?


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## David W (9 mo ago)

Apex1 said:


> I've no advice. I know that if you can post a video of the behavior it can help in assessment of what you say is happening and what a trained eye may see as happening. If you can do this safely. You will have to post the video to you tube and share the link here.
> Those who can help the most need to see the behavior.


Apex1,

I'm reluctant to prepare a video and post it in the public.

I'm reluctant because if the dog ever attacked someone, despite our many and thorough efforts to prevent that, and if that video came into evidence then I'm quite confident we'd lose any legal contest over whether or not we were responsible and used due diligence to prevent the attack.

We're not the Rockefellers. And, any significant legal judgement demanding monetary reparations for our negligence would be an exceptionally sharp blow to our admittedly already recession and pandemic diminished savings.

I hope you understand our concern.

Best,

David


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## David W (9 mo ago)

GSD07 said:


> Your dog needs training, not anti anxiety medication or neutering. He’s so young. He has strong drives, he needs to be taught to control his impulses, to hear you even with triggers present, you need to learn to control your dog and not to be afraid of your dog. I’m not talking about sit/stay for a treat.
> 
> You cannot change his instincts. It’s also not a good idea to run your dog for miles at this young age while his joints are still open, and flood him with triggers that reinforce his overreaction.
> 
> ...


"Your dog needs training, not anti anxiety medication or neutering."

Our vet and her assistant (Male, 6.5" tall and very beefy who is their designated dog handler for difficult animals) evaluated the dog, found him to highly anxious and, as a consequence, aggressive towards others when he's in that state of mind.

The vet, of 34 years experience, prescribed the medications.

She did not in any way suggest that the medications were the ultimate solution to my dog's problems, but rather, prescribed them as a tool we could use to begin his rehabilitation.

Best,

David


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

David W said:


> Thank you for the response.
> 
> OK with the video.
> 
> ...



Well - that is not exactly the take most people have on their dog. Right off, this is obviously a BYB dog from someone who either does not care to understand the genetics of what they are producing or just don't care. To put it bluntly- if you buy bargain basement products - don't expect high quality results. Reading back through the thread - I see that this is acknowledged...but it is my gut reaction.

In any event, this is still a living being for whom you took responsibility. I do not agree with using the economics of the purchase as a way to value the dog's worth, and do not think that is a reason to discard a dog and start over. I normally would say - Do some onlline courses on obedience - Dave Kroyer comes to mind. 

Unfortunately, there are bloodlines that have deeply imbedded genetic aggression and lack clarity. I suspect this may be the case. Trusting that your honest evaluation is accurate - given your statements about acquiring this pup, my solution is not going to be popular. There are dogs with this type of aggression and hair trigger that are not fixable. For everyone's sake and safety, sometimes it is best to release them from whatever demons haunt them. If this truly is escalating, the dog is truly dangerous - I do not believe a board and train (even if you were financially OK with it) is going to change his basic temperament. too many people cannot deal with hard reality and that it is sometimes the best thing to put the dog down.

So sorry for this dog - it is not his fault he was bred by somebody who cared only for money and not for the future of the pups he produced.


Lee


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

David W said:


> Accordingly, to those who believe that they could "handle" Kaiser better than us I offer Kaiser's ownership to them. Interested parties can simply identify their interest to me via this forum and provide a means to contact them to arrange the transfer of the dog...the cost of transport of the dog I'll happily pay.


An evaluation along with a few private lessons from an experienced GSD trainer would be more budget friendly.Members here are sincerely trying to offer the help you asked for. If you've already decided to rehome the dog to an appropriate home then if you concentrate on that solution there are members here that can help with that too.


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## CEMC (May 2, 2020)

I don't know if this helps or not but I had similar feelings about my GSD when he was 11 months old. My wife and I have had many dogs over the years which included Rottweilers and Dobermans but this GSD is the only one that showed behavior similar to what you describe. Nobody except us could get near him because he would lunge and nip whatever he got hold of. If he saw another dog he got really aggressive as well. For quite some time we were very concerned about the situation and even thought of taking him back to the breeder more than once. 

The reason I am telling you this is because he is not that way at all now. He is 26 months old and he's changed dramatically for the better. I have some experience in dog training & I enjoy it so I spend a lot of time working with him and I think that the entire issue was mostly due to lack of trust in us. He remains a very dominant dog and extremely protective but now that he has gained respect for us as alpha members he has accepted his place in the pack and the situation is well under control. 

Your dog may be worse but it is and always has been my opinion that the best & most loyal dogs are those that are most difficult to win over. I believe that compulsive training is not the best for this type of dog but if you perform consistent positive training you may be extremely surprised at the results. If it is a trust issue as it appears to have been with ours I don't think the problem is best resolved with a trainer unless you participate because you gain little by having the dog respect a trainer and not you. 

Good luck to you and your dog & I hope that whatever you decide works out for the best.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Never would I rely on a vet's behavior evaluation. The way you transport him in the car is unimaginable. You have entered a vicious cycle and any dog would get worse, being restrained like that. Why not crate him?
He seems to be getting worse and diabolic with every thread.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

David (OP) By now I fear that your dog's life is at stake the way you are adding descriptions. I understand that you are done with him. So I hope you will go out of your way to see if you can get a behavior evaluation from a known protection trainer. I cannot believe that he truly is the genetically monster you are describing, but who knows. Have you tried more exercise and games to solve with him? The breeder has let you down and didn't seem to want to come up with solutions either. I sincerely feel sorry for you and the dog.
Edit: giving him up to just anyone who wants him, can put him in the wrong circuit (dog fighting)


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Get a crate to keep him safe in the truck - a plastic crate is safer than a metal one. You can cover it with a tarp so he has limited visibility. I shudder to think what might happen if he broke loose from his tether to the headrest in the truck! This does NOT sound safe at all!

I would also try to find out more information re. the background of his parents, and, if possible, the pedigree. Even if the breeder won't take him back (can't blame them, with the dog being so out of control) I think they may be willing to help you out this way.


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## brittanyS (Dec 11, 2018)

I am curious to know what advice you came to this forum looking for. A few members have offered to help with training suggestions or people you might see to have the dog evaluated and it does not appear you have taken them up on the offer. You appear to feel the dog is a lost cause - what are you looking for from this group?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Some people need valadation for a decision already made. I started sensing a lot of 'yes, buts' over the course of this thread.


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## Rosebud99 (9 mo ago)

Sometimes google can be your friend. A quick google for the Houston area came up with these places you may want to delve into further for help.

Aggressive dog training in Houston | Dog behaviorist professionals

Anxiety & Aggression Dog Trainer. Dog Training in Houston

Services — Texas Veterinary Behavior


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

Any advice beyond getting an evaluation seems uninformed. Obviously the way he’s handled the dog is more suitable for a docile, pet type gsd and not a real working line gsd, but that doesn’t mean even in more experienced hands this dog wouldn’t be a problem. OP might have a great dog that can excel in protection sports or personal protection or SAR or any of those endeavors. Or maybe it’s an inbred hillbilly dog that doesn’t have much to offer but problems. Maybe something in between. I’ll just echo getting the dog evaluated. You’ll learn so much more about what you have on your hands. Maybe you have a good Schutzhund dog and find out you actaully like the sport. It can be a fun way to spend a few hours on the weekend with other people who have similar type dogs. Or maybe you find out the best thing to do is put the dog down. Either way whatever you do, it seems like you’re doing all you can to make an informed decision, and you deserve only respect you for that.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

wolfstraum said:


> Well - that is not exactly the take most people have on their dog. Right off, this is obviously a BYB dog from someone who either does not care to understand the genetics of what they are producing or just don't care. To put it bluntly- if you buy bargain basement products - don't expect high quality results. Reading back through the thread - I see that this is acknowledged...but it is my gut reaction.
> 
> In any event, this is still a living being for whom you took responsibility. I do not agree with using the economics of the purchase as a way to value the dog's worth, and do not think that is a reason to discard a dog and start over. I normally would say - Do some onlline courses on obedience - Dave Kroyer comes to mind.
> 
> ...


Agreed.

Best,

David


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Dave W., I sent you a PM. Click on the box in the upper right corner to view it.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Living with a dog you cannot control is no fun. But my take on this is not that you can't, but that you won't. Put the **** dog in a crate and take him to a qualified trainer for a clear evaluation. You don't need a board and train, I can't afford that either. You don't need masks and special collars and consults about his emotional state. You simply need to step up and take control. I have owned dogs that were great with so so training and I have owned dogs that needed rigid rules and boundaries. I'm lazy, I prefer the former but the latter provide interesting opportunities for self improvement and reflection. There is nothing more humbling then sitting in the dirt, bleeding and knowing you just got bested by a dog. 
I have dealt with any number of wildly out of control, poorly bred, completely untrained dogs. And the whole time I have been reading this thread my head is screaming GO GET THE DOG! Alas, I am trapped in Canada.
You bought a dog with questionable genetics. You accepted the responsibility for a life. You ignored the warnings, or didn't recognize them. Now you have the canine equivalent of a petulant, rebellious teenager. 
Research NILIF and exercise the crap out of him. If his tongue isn't hanging to his knees he isn't done. Make him earn everything he gets right down to attention. Dogs need to learn that actions have consequences.
I don't think you have either a stellar working dog or a basket case. I think you have a pushy, spoiled jerk of a dog that needs training and rules.
And for heavens sake get a crate!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> Living with a dog you cannot control is no fun. But my take on this is not that you can't, but that you won't. Put the **** dog in a crate and take him to a qualified trainer for a clear evaluation. You don't need a board and train, I can't afford that either. You don't need masks and special collars and consults about his emotional state. You simply need to step up and take control. I have owned dogs that were great with so so training and I have owned dogs that needed rigid rules and boundaries. I'm lazy, I prefer the former but the latter provide interesting opportunities for self improvement and reflection. There is nothing more humbling then sitting in the dirt, bleeding and knowing you just got bested by a dog.
> I have dealt with any number of wildly out of control, poorly bred, completely untrained dogs. And the whole time I have been reading this thread my head is screaming GO GET THE DOG! Alas, I am trapped in Canada.
> You bought a dog with questionable genetics. You accepted the responsibility for a life. You ignored the warnings, or didn't recognize them. Now you have the canine equivalent of a petulant, rebellious teenager.
> Research NILIF and exercise the crap out of him. If his tongue isn't hanging to his knees he isn't done. Make him earn everything he gets right down to attention. Dogs need to learn that actions have consequences.
> ...


I think that is what most of us were trying to say. Well put! Doesn't mean it is the best permanent solution but it is a good one to buy the dog time IMO.


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## David W (9 mo ago)

Gentlemen and Ladies,

Goodbye.

David


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## brittanyS (Dec 11, 2018)

I hate it when people come here looking for someone else to validate their decision to have their dog put down. The only advice some people seem to be looking for is the nearest vet willing to euthanize their dog.


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## Rosebud99 (9 mo ago)

brittanyS said:


> I hate it when people come here looking for someone else to validate their decision to have their dog put down. The only advice some people seem to be looking for is the nearest vet willing to euthanize their dog.


I don't think that was fair to David.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

brittanyS said:


> I hate it when people come here looking for someone else to validate their decision to have their dog put down. The only advice some people seem to be looking for is the nearest vet willing to euthanize their dog.


If you’ve made the decision to put a dog down and nothing is going to change your mind, I don’t see the point of asking online. If you aren’t willing to have someone evaluate the dog but you are willing to pay to ship the dog across the country to someone else, then that says everything there is to know about the situation.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

The price of the dog should not have any relation to what an owner is willing do or spend to train the dog. With that line of thinking, rescued dogs don’t deserve the same level of training as an expensive dog from a breeder. 

Please don’t be upset that the OP didn’t want your help. The next person with an aggressive young dog who reads this may use all the helpful information offered. Or they may make a different purchase or early training decision before it gets this bad. 

Something else I planned to say before he left is that prior experience is helpful but only if it applies to the dog in front of you. It can also give an owner a mistaken sense of their abilities with a different level of dog than they have had before.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I am sure the OP is still lurking to see what we are writing. So, OP, if you decide to put your dog down, look him in his eyes and tell him that you weren't willing to give it your all and that his life was not worth your time and effort. I hope I am mistaken and that you do put in the work, whatever it may be and whatever the outcome is, at least you did what you could. And.. you can always change your mind and come back to the forum. Best to you and the dog.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

At a year old, the dog doesn't have basic commands down irrespective of the apparent aggression. 
There's a link there that needs to be acknowledged. 

OP, do you feel that you've had wonderful but softer, more compliant dogs previously and is this just a harder dog or more poorly bred (genetic issues)


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> The price of the dog should not have any relation to what an owner is willing do or spend to train the dog. With that line of thinking, rescued dogs don’t deserve the same level of training as an expensive dog from a breeder.
> 
> Please don’t be upset that the OP didn’t want your help. The next person with an aggressive young dog who reads this may use all the helpful information offered. Or they may make a different purchase or early training decision before it gets this bad.
> 
> Something else I planned to say before he left is that prior experience is helpful but only if it applies to the dog in front of you. It can also give an owner a mistaken sense of their abilities with a different level of dog than they have had before.


Very good point.


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## SulcoPete (Sep 10, 2020)

Well, after reading everything, all I can say is this was a huge mistake to buy from this "breeder", who was obviously someone who had a dog and wanted to make some money. For comparison - it's actually written into my contract that if for any reason and at any time, I can't keep my dog, it HAS to go back to the breeder!
But honestly my sense of what went wrong here is that dog was never dominated. My sense of the way things go with dogs in general is that there comes only one or two moments in a young dog's life where they issue a serious challenge to your authority. You can see it in thier eyes. They want control. And you need to take that moment to put the fear of god into that dog's mind that you have the power of life and death over that animal. The dog needs to be dominated. Just once. Maybe twice. My guess is that this was never done with this dog. This dog is trying his best to control everything while the owner puts up physical barriers to restrian it, which only make him try harder and make him more nuts. He never learned that someone else is in charge! Once he does, then he'll change. Just my opinion. I could be wrong. YMMV and any other discliamer I might be forgetting.


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## Sandyjc60 (Feb 22, 2021)

David W said:


> Remarkably Aggressive 11 Month Old GSD Male Puppy...towards other humans and dogs…
> 
> Hi, all.
> 
> ...


Dear David, sorry to hear you are experiencing this with your beautiful dog. We are experienced owners and last year Rufus joined us at 8 weeks our 6th GSD. My goodness what a culture shock he is so different to any of our other dogs. He is now 18th months and I think we are finally getting there, he does love fetch etc but brain games have been the making of him. To be honest his feisty/bites attitude made us think we had made a horrible mistake, don’t get me wrong he still needs work but he is young. If you are concerned about walking your dog ditch it until you feel more confident. Sadly, I do understand you are struggling, but muzzles and prong collars are not for us and medication, I think, merely masks the underlying behaviour and leads us into a false sense of security. You sound like you know your stuff, but lwe found we had to retrain ourselves to deal with Rufus. Calmness = good leadership. I wish you all luck and have a re think on how you deal with your dog. It worked for us.
Warm wishes.


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## Sandyjc60 (Feb 22, 2021)

PS. Please do not perceive that my comments are anyway a criticism, they most definitely are not 🙏 it’s just how we have dealt with our ‘challenging’ Rufus 😉 Strong arm tactics and equipment just ramped up his behaviour. When we switched to silent and calm (and some tasty rewards) he was quite ‘taken aback’ which was quite amusing. This may be of some use and what works for one dog may not work for another but we remember feeling much like yourselves, it’s hard work but I’m sure will be worth it in the end. Best, Sandy.


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## Maxine222 (May 25, 2020)

GSD07 said:


> Your dog needs training, not anti anxiety medication or neutering. He’s so young. He has strong drives, he needs to be taught to control his impulses, to hear you even with triggers present, you need to learn to control your dog and not to be afraid of your dog. I’m not talking about sit/stay for a treat.
> 
> You cannot change his instincts. It’s also not a good idea to run your dog for miles at this young age while his joints are still open, and flood him with triggers that reinforce his overreaction.
> 
> Also, when your dog has lost it, please just quietly remove him from the situation. A prong collar is not the right tool here either, it will





wolfy dog said:


> David (OP) By now I fear that your dog's life is at stake the way you are adding descriptions. I understand that you are done with him. So I hope you will go out of your way to see if you can get a behavior evaluation from a known protection trainer. I cannot believe that he truly is the genetically monster you are describing, but who knows. Have you tried more exercise and games to solve with him? The breeder has let you down and didn't seem to want to come up with solutions either. I sincerely feel sorry for you and the dog.
> Edit: giving him up to just anyone who wants him, can put him in the wrong circuit (dog fighting)


Agree with Wolfy dog and wish you the best of luck. The dog is still young enough to better with age in capable hands. Gsds are incredibly smart but must first trust, respect and then love their handlers. Only then the dog may move away from being aggressive, with constant guidence and time.


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

I don't know if the O.P. is around here anymore, but I would refer him to this thread about a very successful board and train with Ivan Balabonov. I know that it is unlikely that they would pay for this, but, it may help someone else who reads this thread and is facing a similar problem.

Dropped my dog off at a board and train and feeling sad. | Page 4 | German Shepherds Forum


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

SulcoPete said:


> Well, after reading everything, all I can say is this was a huge mistake to buy from this "breeder", who was obviously someone who had a dog and wanted to make some money. For comparison - it's actually written into my contract that if for any reason and at any time, I can't keep my dog, it HAS to go back to the breeder!
> But honestly my sense of what went wrong here is that dog was never dominated. My sense of the way things go with dogs in general is that there comes only one or two moments in a young dog's life where they issue a serious challenge to your authority. You can see it in thier eyes. They want control. And you need to take that moment to put the fear of god into that dog's mind that you have the power of life and death over that animal. The dog needs to be dominated. Just once. Maybe twice. My guess is that this was never done with this dog. This dog is trying his best to control everything while the owner puts up physical barriers to restrain it, which only make him try harder and make him more nuts. He never learned that someone else is in charge! Once he does, then he'll change. Just my opinion. I could be wrong. YMMV and any other discliamer I might be forgetting.


Pete, I think you're wrong about this. The vet's designated 'dog wrangler' found the dog was highly anxious and fearful. That doesn't sound like the alpha dog you're describing. However, when fearful dogs understand that their owner is the one in charge, it can reduce their anxiety.


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## JulieK (Aug 4, 2020)

David W said:


> Remarkably Aggressive 11 Month Old GSD Male Puppy...towards other humans and dogs…
> 
> Hi, all.
> 
> ...


Hi David,
I am sorry that you are going through this. I feel for you. We adopted a female GSD, Stella, right before the pandemic hit, in February 2020. Stella is our 9th dog, but our first GSD. (The others were: border collie, two Aussies, a Samoyed, a Sheltie, a Lhasa Apso, and a wee Yorkie/Chihuahua.) My husband and I are empty nesters and felt ready (time-wise) to take on the care and training of a GSD, which I believed would require more hands on training than our other dogs had required. (My sister had a GSD years ago, so I got a taste of it then.) Immediately after picking Stella up at the breeder (which was also a BYB, but not a puppy mill by any stretch), I enrolled in a puppy-training group class with a reputable trainer. Stella adapted to the class beautifully and loved playing with the 6 other pups (of all breeds, large and small). She was the first in the class able to sleep through the night without being in her crate, and the first house-trained, for which I take little credit (she learned quickly to tap the bells on the door with her nose). The class focused on positive training only. Harnesses on the puppies; treats, praise, distractions, attention as rewards. It was great. Stella learned all of the basic commands quickly.

Then covid hit and the class, and subsequent classes, became remote, done on Zoom. The classes were fine for learning how to instruct the dogs on new commands and question the instructor on techniques and other issues, but lousy for socialization. Well, I won't belabor the socialization issues, we all lived through the lock down (which was very long in the PNW, compared to other places).

I don't know if it was just lack of continued socialization, or Stella's temperament, but when she got around six months, we started having major issues with her. She'd always been reactive, much more so than any dog we'd ever had: startling at bird noise, leaves rustling, dogs barking in houses, etc., not to mention people and dogs. All of this reactivity increased as time went on, though we were still working with the trainer (private sessions, due to Covid), both inside and outside the house. My husband and I were training all. the. time, together and separately: at parks, outside (never inside) dog parks, in our neighborhood, in our house and yard, etc. During all of this, we were still, per our trainer's instructions, using only positive reinforcement methods: treats (high value treats too: cheese stix, turkey hot dog pieces, etc.). Stella was great at learning things: stay, heel, etc. But if a dog approached us in, say, a park, where I was working her on a long-line, Stella immediately forgot all of her training, and tore off towards the dog (FYI: indestructible long lines are not indestructible). It wasn't friendly, "I must go play," reactivity like my friend's Lab puppy who thinks every dog is his new BFF; it was fear aggression. Stella acted aggressive (loading up, lunging out, barking) if any dog so much as looked at her a second too long, or if any stranger got too close ("close" meaning, in sight), or if a dog hanging out a car window barked at her, etc. etc.. Several times she lunged so hard to get at something/one that she whipped me off my feet, and a couple of times the leash was ripped out of my hands. Once, when Stella "lost her mind" because a dog was running on leash, with its owner, downhill towards us (I'd seen the dog and its owner coming and had put Stella in a sit off the trail), Stella yanked me right onto my face, whereby I dropped the leash, and Stella went tearing down the hill after the jogger. Nothing happened, but the other dog owner was shook up (rightfully so) and I was beside myself with fear, frustration, embarrassment. I called my trainer in tears, arranged a "session" (less a lesson, more a therapy session).

I told my trainer that something wasn't working. It'd been 6 months of training, by this point, and I told her that Stella didn't care about the treats, no matter how high value. She couldn't be lured, distracted, turned away from "threats." She didn't give two hoots about anything but getting that scary thing before it got her, even if the dog was yapping at her through the window in their own house. And by now she was 70+ pounds and impossible for me to feel comfortable handling when she got riled up (and I am not a small woman). "I don't know what to do," I told my trainer. "Now I feel as anxious as Stella does. We're feeding off each other's bad energy." I'd see a Golden Retriever on a leash walking towards us on the sidewalk and I'd be looking for the nearest driveway to exit onto until the other dog passed, hoping all the while that the dog didn't "stare" at Stella too long. (Although, to be fair to me, Stella was just as reactive when my husband took her out, though he was less unnerved by her antics (Nerves of steel: he used to ride a high strung Arabian mare.)) "Maybe I should put her in a boarding/training facility for GSDs," I said to the trainer. (I'd gotten a couple of board-and-train names from other GSD owners I'd run into (walking their very, very non-reactive dogs!). "No, no, no," my trainer replied, "you are doing wonderfully. Stella is only 8 months old. You have to be patient. Keep working. She's a great dog, you'll get there." This should have buoyed me up, this praise, but I was exhausted. My nerves were tired. I felt so disappointed in my inability to help Stella feel safe. I worried about what could happen: a person hurt, a dog hurt or killed, Stella hurt or killed, me or my husband hurt or killed. I whined a lot, to anyone who would listen, about how this "had never happened with any of our other dogs." (Our other dogs had their quirks, but never this degree of reactivity.) My husband and I grieved over the mere idea of rehoming Stella. Aside from the reactivity outside our house, she was the apple of our eyes. We adored her! She was one of the most personable, loving, funny, nutty, "talkative," beautiful dogs we'd ever had! It felt just gut wrenching to think of handing her over to someone else. 

So, the positive training went on (including group "reactivity" classes where all the dogs are in their own area, getting exposed to different triggers Stella did great, if the trigger wasnt another dog). Stella made friends with a big yellow lab puppy in the area, and they played fine. But even that success with another dog didn't change Stella's reactivity in public places around strange dogs. 

When we ran out of classes to take at the positive-reinforcement-only place, I found another trainer. He put Stella in a prong collar and taught us some/ a few things. We signed onto 3 months of weekly sessions, but, when that was done, we went to a third trainer, recommended by a stranger I met on the trail whose parents had a couple GSDs. A board and train facility.

The third trainer and her staff watched Stella react to dogs at their facility (they brought a Lab, and then a beagle, out on leashes to walk past Stella) during a private training session, and suggested that, given how well trained Stella already was, and given how the prong collar wasn't doing much, that we try a shock collar before committing to baord-and-train. (I know this is controversial. The second trainer we hired suggested a shock collar and we told him in no uncertain terms that that was never going to happen. Well, funny thing about that word "never.")

We did it. We bought a good shock collar (Dogtrac). And we learned to use it properly with a trainer, not on our own. The trainer showed us how to place it on Stella, and told us to get her used to it by just having her wear it for an hour or so in the house every day. Next session, he taught us how to use it: settings and situations. Third session, we met him at a dog park (at, not in, the dog park per se), and he showed us what to tell Stella if she stares at a dog approaching her behind the fence, what to do, etc. Within two tries, Stella "got" the word "leave it" like she never had before, no matter how high quality the treats or how much we'd practiced. It seemed like she finally realized what we wanted from her (no reactivity to the dog inside the fence), and that nothing awful would happen to us or her if she just ignored the other dog. It was like a light bulb went off in her head ! 

I know I'm going to get heat on this site about using a shock collar. But here's the thing: it worked for us. (After the third session with the trainer, at the dog park area, where Stella "got it" and only had to be shocked twice at low dose before she understood what "leave it" meant, the trainer said, "You don't need board-and-train. Just keep working with this. You guys got this. If you need another session or two, call us." We haven't had to call.) The shock collar worked for Stella. In fact ALL of the training worked for Stella, and us, in that it got us one step along the way, then another step, then another. The shock collar was not the first thing I ever would use. I would never use it without a trainer (a friend asked me to help her train her dog with a shock collar, and I flatly refused. You need professional help with that, I told her.) Stella has been shocked at a low setting maybe a dozen times in six months and now is the dog we'd hoped she'd be: calm, reliable, etc. Now if we run into a strange dog on the trail, and I say "leave it," she looks at the dog, but doesn't "load up." She knows if I say "leave it," I mean, "Girl, I got this. No need for you to protect me or react, thanks." She trusts me. I trust her. She's also older and wiser (2 1/2 years), which makes a huge difference also. Whereas people used to look askance at us, at her, losing her mind over their presence, people compliment Stella on how well trained she is. 

I don't say this to crow. I say this to say that it took a lot of work, a lot of money (we scraped), a lot of headache and heartache to get to this point. And we're still working on issues (people she doesn't know coming into the house to visit, for one).

So, David, I feel for you. I know what it's like to try and try and not know what to do, and feel at your wits end, feel sad and afraid, and have people WHO DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE STORY, offering criticism. My own vet doesn't like that we used a shock collar, but she accepts it. Ditto family and friends. They'd "never" use a shock collar. O-kay, good to know, I guess. /s

Do what you can/need to do. Rehome your dog, if that's the only viable option. Sometimes that is the only option. I know it's hard and hurts (we've had to find new homes for horses), but you have to make the best decision with the limited (always) information and resources you have. No shame. No blame.

Be safe,
Julie


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## swatmozzy1 (Mar 13, 2019)

Long story short...my son adopted a GSD approx at 1 1/2 years old, very reactive, walked in circles, wasn't able to stay home crated , he actually squeezed himself though the seams, we came home and all 3 doors were still latched with the seam was unlinked. It took me 3 YEARS to get him to walk at HEEL. I had 3 GSD'S before him and all but the first went to obedience classes but all 3 were dog aggressive. However I was able to walk them with small prong collars, using vibrating, shock collar on my son's rescue resulted in more reactivity. Our trainercwho is the best in our area with respect to behavioral issues said it was a bad breeding and neurological in manner as we used combinations of trazadone as well as other meds and it never made a difference. You could not Mr T. this dude!! But one thing was he otherwise was obedient to a flaw. I feel that your issue may be socialization issues missed early on. Me and my husband are in our early 60's, I have been diagnosed with early onset Parkinsons but that did not deter me from getting a puppy 2 years ago..a now 113 lb runt. I went to a backyard breeder where the parents and puppies were hand reared by all of the family members. Brand new kennels in a new 2 story barn. My pups temperament is the best ever, very little prey drive, looks up to the sky for flying things instead. Anyhow, sounds to me that he was never trained in an environment without distractions first before understanding the commands and actions that coincide. I have a friend now with a vizula mix that refuses to work indoors without distractions first and is setting the dog up for failure.IMHO wrong dog for her. Each one of my GSD'S were different but I could walk all 3 together because they knew who held the end of the leash. Need to do alot of desensitization training with a skilled trainer or rehome. I never had to ever put a muzzle on my dogs either.


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