# So I was very irritated with my vet



## SamTheDog (Apr 4, 2011)

A couple of weeks ago a few days after picking up my pup I took him for his first vet visit. Of course I had been reading on this forum and have been obsessed with the ears ever since. During his checkup she was rubbing and folding his ears, which made me tense. Then I said "hey be careful with the ears, I heard that you aren't supposed to touch them when they are trying to stand up." She said "No thats not true" and started to play with them more and fold them backwards. Whether she's right and its a myth or not, it was very hard to not yell at her. I was very annoyed. Now I have to go back for his next visit and I'm worried about the same thing. Am I wrong here? What can I say to keep the vet off his ears?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Unless there is a real traumatic injury, our pups ears going up (or not) is GENETIC. I mess with my pups ears all the time and 3 out of 3 of the sets of ears went up just like the breeder said and like their littermates ears went up.

I think this is another poor breeder 'Old Wives Tale' thing passed on over the years as a truth. Like 'if your puppy goes up stairs in the first year they will get Hip Dysplasia' type of lie.

Both of those 'lies' cover poor breeding. It won't be the *irresponsible breeders* fault if the ears stay down and YOU messed with them. And it won't be THEIR fault when your dog get Hip Dysplasia cause YOU allowed your pup to go upstairs.

Both ears and hips (and many other issues in our breed) are primarily genetic and not something caused by a new owner accidentally 'breaking' their new puppy.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

I'd be mad too not because she touched his ears to begin with but she blatanly ignored your request. I won't work with a vet that can't respect my wishes.

Talk with her at the next visit and explain that this is your dog and she needs to respect how you want your pup handled as along as it is not endangering the dog's life. If she can't do that then I would take my business elsewhere.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

wives tail or not -- the vet did not act in a professional manner - a bit immature, not sensitive or respectful of the owner .


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I'd be really annoyed if my vet acted that way. 
In this case, the ears should be fine... Jax had other puppies chewing on his ears the whole time they were trying to come up and they came up... but whould it be acceptable for your vet to say "you're an idiot, I'm neutering him anyway."?
Your dog, your call.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

It's hard to say because I know how worried you are with Sam's ears. She should have been more sensitive to how you feel about it and not continue rubbing his ears the way you described. 

I love our Vet but the vet techs- it's a hit and miss. The last time we were there, I almost lost it. How would like it if the vet tech talks to you like this:

VT: What are you feeding him
Me: Raw
VT: You realize he could get salmonella
Me: When was the last time you've seen a dog that has salmonella?
VT: he will get this and this and this shots shots today
M: Hold the rabies for the next check up, he's only 14 weeks, I don't want to overload him with shots
VT: With all due respect, it's the Vet's decision
Me: No, you are mistaken, my DOG, my decision. 

She then started to take his temp, heartrate etc. 
VT: Are you planning to neuter him
Me: Nope
VT: Are you planning to breed him
Me: No
VT: Then why don't you neuter him?
Me: It's none of your business, honestly you are starting to annoy me, go get the Vet. 


The vet comes in- she is extremely sweet and very smart. She checks Odin, then we talked. The whole time, the vet tech was having an attitude in the room- I wanted to punch her face! I tell the Vet that I will wait for the next check up for the rabies (Odin will be 16 weeks then), she said "no problem". Technically, we can't force you about shots, you could choose not to have shots and we can't do anything about it. The VT face was priceless.

The VT was about 20-22? Obviously she knows it ALL. She was very lucky that I was in a good mood. My husband wanted to me call the Vet and tell her what happened. But I didn't want her getting fired- not in this economy.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I've gotten a bit irritated at vets in the past too. I don't like it when a vet bursts into the exam room and practically yells out a big hello and startles my dog. I don't like vets who do high pitched baby talk at Niko (which freaks him out) and then they scold him for it, and then _continue_ to talk like that in spite of the obvious way it bothers him. And I don't like vets who tell me what I should feed my dog. They can make a suggestion, but if I say I am going to feed ____, then the vet better just say okay and not try to argue with me.

I think it's very important to have a vet whose practice is small enough that they remember your dog and his or her quirks. And of course the vet must listen to you, since you know your dog the best.

One thing about the ears, if you never touch your puppy's ears, he might not allow you to handle his ears when he is older. Just sayin. You can do it gently if you are afraid of messing up the cartilage, but it's not a bad idea to get him used to having his ears touched now.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

> I think it's very important to have a vet whose practice is small enough that they remember your dog and his or her quirks. And of course the vet must listen to you, since you know your dog the best.


Absolutely.

Don't feel bad about firing a vet. That's my motto since Alice started having seizures. 
First vet, did do EKG and blood but only prescribed Pheno. Didn't talk about nutrition, didn't talk about combination of meds. Everytime she had an episode we'd call, and get "give her another pill" to the point her blood level was on the very high therapuetic range and she was still having seizures. When I called him to report side effects like excessive hunger and "drunky butt" He told me, "Sometimes you just have to put up with behavior issues" 
(later I realized that that clinic's price for the pheno was astronomical)

Wrong! As Donald Trump says, "You're Fired!"

Second vet was better but sold her practice (without telling patients).

Third vet (in two years) I really like, small practice...only Dr. He was the first to look at her seizure log book and say, that without the blood work the time and type of seizures that she was having her Pheno seemed high.
He actually listened to my concerns and has started lowering the drug.

Aside from that rambling story; the bottom line is the vet is a doctor...It's license to "practice" That means they're not good at it yet and still need to practice. They need to listen to your concerns.

Oh, and if the vet tells you to isolate the puppy and not take it out for the first five months of it's life...Find another.
You can take a pup out if you are responsible about it.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i actually left a vet because he insisted that Riley and Zena were related and that because Zena has hip displacia that Riley automatically would as well. And they Zena would as she got older start biting people. He ALWAYS pushed things. He didnt listen to me. He basically had that high and mighty "well i went to vet school, did you? no, okay then i'm the boss" attitude. I wasnt the only one having problems either. They lost 75% of their client base because of that attitude. They assumed because they have the degree that they didnt have to respect me as a pet owner giving them my business. If a vet cant respect your wishes, they're no good. hope your next visit is better. if not, definitely find a new vet. You want it to be a positive experience for both you and your pets.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think your vet is right and it will not hurt the pup, but she should have been a little more tuned to your anxiety about it. 

In fact, I kind of like when a vet takes the time to calm a pup down and or touches them in areas a lot of dogs have trouble with, paws and ears. It will make taking care of issues in the future a lot easier. 

I would not fire a vet for something like this, or you might run out vets before you have a real nasty situation with one. But that is just me thinking the worst.

People will fire a vet for discussing the dog's weight with them. That is ludicrous. If a vet sees an issue and does not feel free enough to discuss it with me, then I do not need that vet. 

As for the what are you feeding Vet tech, everyone's an expert. She probably has three dogs doing great on Science Diet. 

Things that I dislike at a vet's office: 

1. When they fail to mention that their surgeon is out of town when you call in the morning to tell them that your bitch is in labor. Only a good long relationship can overcome something like this. 

2. when they take the dog out of the room to draw blood or give shots. I prefer to be right there. Sorry. They were doing this for a little while, but recently they have gone back to their original way of doing it right in the exam room with me present. I do not like when they have to stab the dog more than once with the needle, but I want to know what my dogs have been through, even if it is hard. I stood there and watched the c-section -- that was really hard. But that was not my current vet either. If I can watch that, I can see handle watching them take a temperature, give shots, and take blood. 

3. If they are afraid of the dog even if the dog has shown no signs of aggression. I will suggest a muzzle if they have to do something painful or scarey to my dogs, though none of my dogs have ever tried to chew on them. My vet is great on this, never had a problem with them being scared just because of my breed of dog. I have suggested a muzzle a couple of times and we used it, but it was always my choice. 

4. One of the techs has a very high pitched screachey voice she uses to greet dogs and puppies. None of my dogs liked her. I finally told her to tone her greeting down a little. Now all my dogs seem to like her. 

I am very fortunate, I have been dealing with my current vet and his office for almost thirty years now. I like them both, and I appreciate that they respect my opinions on things, are free with information, and do not seem put out when I go elsewhere for some stuff. I really appreciate that their first answer to everything is not surgery. They do not always jump to diagnostic tests, sometimes they will treat for a common disease indicated by the symptoms and if that solves the problem, good they saved me some money. If not, we dig deeper. 

They run low-cost speuters that I would never do (because I would want the bloodwork), and the vet who still does surgeries does speuters for the shelter. They do a lot for the shelter. But they never give me a hard time for being a breeder, and they will give my name out. A lot of my dogs look the same to outsiders, so they always ask me who I have with me, but that is ok. What's bad is when I get their names wrong!


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I wouldn't feel one second of guilt for firing a vet based on their attitude. 
I fired one because I went to them with a dog full of bee stings, just as they were locking up... he looked at her and said sorry, they're closing. I understand, business is business.
My parents' vet (I wish I lived closer so I could use them too), actually has vets on call 24/7. My dad called that his puppy was dying in the middle of the night (long story, bad parasites), and he called the vet back mid way not to bother, it was too late. The vet still showed up (for free!!) to see if there was anything he could do. 
I feel that if the vet just sees your dog as a dollar sign, they can't possibly give the level of care that a decent vet will.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

> I fired one because I went to them with a dog full of bee stings, just as they were locking up... he looked at her and said sorry, they're closing. I understand, business is business.


All I can say is Wow.

Seltzer, I agree. Where did this drag the dog out of the room to take blood stuff come from? I let that happen once; and have never forgiven myself for it. My dog came back with a big gauze pad and vet wrap? Now she's a bit more skittery about blood taking.

*I agree with the fearful VTs...I understand GSDs can be intimidating but if my dog feels that the humans aren't confident...she acts much different. More like she's really got something to worry about.

*screechy baby talk, I've told several people that they sound like "wounded prey" and that makes her excited. Calm down. Happy to see you is not necessarily high pitch.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dog full of bee stings, yeah I would fire the vet for that one, if the vet was still there. If not, you have a vet tech making a decision on whether to call the vet back. Sometimes vet offices keep techs for years and they get really good. Sometimes you have a new one. Their training and decision making process is not the same as a vet's.

Did I mention that I broke into a staff meeting at my vet's last week over the bone incident. I called my vet because one of my dog's started bleeding badly at a surgery site, a surgery they did not do, on a Sunday, and he told me to meet him there. He opened up for me and took care of my girl. And because I had to work the next day, he told me to drop her off in the morning so they could keep an eye on her that day.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

> Did I mention that I broke into a staff meeting at my vet's last week over the bone incident. I called my vet because one of my dog's started bleeding badly at a surgery site, a surgery they did not do, on a Sunday, and he told me to meet him there. He opened up for me and took care of my girl. And because I had to work the next day, he told me to drop her off in the morning so they could keep an eye on her that day.


That's above and beyond the call of duty. No wonder you've stayed so long with that vet.


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## SamTheDog (Apr 4, 2011)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Unless there is a real traumatic injury, our pups ears going up (or not) is GENETIC. I mess with my pups ears all the time and 3 out of 3 of the sets of ears went up just like the breeder said and like their littermates ears went up.
> 
> I think this is another poor breeder 'Old Wives Tale' thing passed on over the years as a truth. Like 'if your puppy goes up stairs in the first year they will get Hip Dysplasia' type of lie.
> 
> ...


This was not a product of an "irresponsible breeder" for me. I read about this myth over an over again because it is smeared all across this forum.


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## SamTheDog (Apr 4, 2011)

I agree with all the things you guys are saying, thanks alot for the advice. There are 3 vets that work at the place I go, I think I will request a different vet for my next visit. I have been to one other with my other dog, he was very good. 

By the way, another thing my vet did during my first visit that really bothered me was after she raised the table up very high and did her exam, she stepped back to write in her clip board and looked at my dog freaking out on top of this high stainless steel table. I was across the room and jumped up and said "hes going to jump down!" She then said "Yea it sure looks like it" then continued to write. No motion to stop him. I jumped across the room, grabbed him and put him on the floor. I am not a vet but common sense makes me think that a 10 week old puppy should not jump down from a chest high table onto the hard floor.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

I always play with my puppies ears, but I understand why you would be annoyed; you asked them not to do it and they continued to do it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I built a room for my dogs onto my house. It has a concrete floor covered with linoleum. In my first litter, I had a puppy that was a little escape artist. Jenna would climb and wiggle and pretty much get out of anything. Anyhow, I had my old sofa and love seat in the room along with my old dining room table. 

One day when they were eight weeks old, I was walking through the house and saw her standing on top of the table and she saw me, my jaw dropped and she immediately jumped down from that table onto the concrete floor. 

I thought, OMG if she gets a problem it is going to be all my fault. At two, in spite of me, she was OFA Good hips/ Elbows normal. 

I was watching Heidi get groomed, and they tied her to the overhead place they tie the lead, and had her up on the table. I was watching where she could not see me. The phone rang. The woman left my dog tied by a slip lead around her neck to a grooming attachment! The pup went off the table, and two other groomers had to rush over and free her from hanging her self. 

The whole time she was in there, people were walking back and forth in front of the table, and carrying dogs back and forth, and Heidi was being great. 

When she was done, I went into pick her up. The groomer had the NERVE to tell me she was the most fearful GSD she ever dealt with. Furious, I took her out of the salon and did a lap around the store to cool down, then I walked her back into the salon and said to the lady, maybe she was fearful because you dropped her off of the table. The woman looked at me and said she jumped. 

Tie my dog where it can hang itself and then leave it to do so and then blame the dog for your incompetence!!! I went home, called her manager, who took her side, and have not been in there since. 

Heidi was not injured in her body nor did she become fearful, and is just fine for other groomers, and I never get a report that she is fearful from any of them. The lady seemed in a bad mood when I left the dog with her. Live and learn to never leave your dog with someone who already seems put out. 

Your vet should never be that careless. Sometimes we just do not like the way someone responds to us, our dog, whatever, and do not want to use that person again as a vet. That is ok. Find someone you trust. I think that if you continue to go to this person, it will not be a very positive experience.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

> I was watching Heidi get groomed, and they tied her to the overhead place they tie the lead, and had her up on the table. I was watching where she could not see me. The phone rang. The woman left my dog tied by a slip lead around her neck to a grooming attachment! The pup went off the table, and two other groomers had to rush over and free her from hanging her self.


Wow, does she leave a human infant in the tub to answer the phone? That's unbelievable.


"He sure looks like it?" Wow.

Sorry, guys...the more I read stuff here the more I say "Wow"
Next thing it'll be "Zoinks!" Or "Jeeper!"


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

seriously. stupidity should hurt.


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## SamTheDog (Apr 4, 2011)

haha well thanks for the support guys. My girlfriend makes fun of me because of how worried and overprotective I am of my puppy. I just want him to be a happy healthy dog!


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

The vet was correct with it's statement, yes. However I think if you would have firmly said, please do not touch his ears unless absolutely needed and THEN the vet did. You shouldnt fire him. Be more firm, but not rude, next time! He is your puppy!! You should pet your pups ears as well as other body parts to get him used to touches in all areas!


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## maged youssef (Jul 19, 2010)

do not worry about the ears a lot , you have a fine good loking puppy , but ur vet is wrong in what he did and should respect you . they usually do that while cleanig their ears but not rub them for teazing the owner , if he repeats it this visit , talk to him and visit another vet .


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

It doesn't sound as though you're being overprotective- just a concerned responsible owner. Something the vet should appreciate!


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

SamTheDog said:


> A couple of weeks ago a few days after picking up my pup I took him for his first vet visit. Of course I had been reading on this forum and have been obsessed with the ears ever since. During his checkup she was rubbing and folding his ears, which made me tense. Then I said "hey be careful with the ears, I heard that you aren't supposed to touch them when they are trying to stand up." She said "No thats not true" and started to play with them more and fold them backwards. Whether she's right and its a myth or not, it was very hard to not yell at her. I was very annoyed. Now I have to go back for his next visit and I'm worried about the same thing. Am I wrong here? What can I say to keep the vet off his ears?


OMG! Find a new vet. I would have been so upset. I strongly believe that his ears should never be touched in that manner when they are starting to stand up. I have seen a dog with one ear stay floppy because of children having handled his ears too much. I never permitted anyone to handle my dogs ears like that. Also, your vet was disrespectful to you, it is your dog, and your wishes should be honored.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The vet should be touching the ears, floppy ears get infected much easier and therefore they should check for them. You are a little over the top worried about the ears, I would play with my pup's ears all the time when they were floppy and they stood up at 12 weeks and haven't come down since. If you did your research and this is a good vet then let them do their thing, they are a professional. The table thing seemed rediculous, but why weren't you there standing helping control your dog? I am always next to the table no matter what. There are a lot worse things that your vet can do than check your dog's ears, even against your wishes, but in my opinion you shouldn't be against it at all. Less than 1% of GSDs have floppy ears, and its genetic, not because someone played with them. At 5 months, if they aren't up, start to tape, but until then, enjoy the floppy ones!


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## SamTheDog (Apr 4, 2011)

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote at all, but instead skimmed it then jumped down to post a hasty and scathing reply. It was not during the check of his ears, she was pulling, rubbing, and folding the ears after I made a comment about it. Folded them backward, crumpled them up, etc. She checked in his ears with the light scope far previous to that.

And I was not standing there with the dog because at first she was doing her thing with a vet assistant, I would have been in the way. IF YOU WOULD HAVE READ WHAT I SAID, you would know that as soon as I saw the dog on the table alone, I jumped across the room to stop him from jumping down. If you need even further detail to paint the picture, the vet assistant left the room just previous to that. The total time span was very small.

And they are up at about 13 weeks. I don't mind constructive criticism, but jumping at a chance to leave a disrespectful reply without really reading what I said/asking a little more info is annoying and not helpful. And as far as being over the top worried about the ears, this forum has an entire section dedicated to it. There are a multitude of products and methods out there that are meant to help the ears stand up if they don't do it on their own. It seems I am not the only person "over the top" about my dogs ears. Another thing I have found is that many time, rumors come about based on experience. It didn't just appear out of nowhere. It may be a myth that excessive touching of the dogs ears will hinder their standing up, but I haven't seen any proof otherwise.


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## SamTheDog (Apr 4, 2011)

Lastly, so you touched them and they still stood up? What about the people who touched them and they didn't stand up? Genetics is the answer? What about if the entire lineage has perfect ears, as well as all the litter mates? And where is your source for your less than 1% claim? 

My vet is a good vet, and there is 5 vets working in that building. They conducted 2 successful knee surgeries on my other dog. I am aware they are professionals, doctors, highly trained, etc. but they cannot know everything about every animal. Myth or not, I don't care... my dog, my rules.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

SamTheDog said:


> . Myth or not, I don't care... my dog, my rules.



this is the reason I would not use that vet. I would talk to the office manager, tell them why and make all of my appts with the others in the office.
But, I agree with everyone, you WANT to handle your pups ears. Constantly. Not rough, twisting, bending, crumpling motions, but that is more because you are going to hurt him, not damage his ears. Have you ever watched these guys play? I'm surprised they even HAVE ears. They chew, tug, bite, bend, and trample their littermates ears. And they still stand up. 
Rayden, I bought into the "don't touch" myth. He is an older guy now, and he HATES to have you touch his ears. Singe, I did the opposite. I have handled, poked, prodded, fondled and messed with his ears in every way possible since he came home.


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