# Question for Breeders



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

This thread got me thinking about something
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-puppy/133261-just-mailed-deposit.html

And I'll start out with a disclaimer that this is not a critisim of the OP of that thread, nor the breeder. It just got my wheels turning and I was wondernig how most working line breeders would handle this.

It LOOKS like that is a pretty nice breeding with dogs that have the potential to produce some rockin' babies (correct me if I'm wrong--I'm know very little about bloodlines and am just going of off titles after names primarily) But the OP is a first time dog owner and mainly has an interest in a jogging and hiking buddy. 

Obviously, a good breeding can produce a one or two (or more) puppies that are more laid back and without as much drive, but what would most breeders do in this instance if ALL the puppies were drivey little things that have a ton of potential and need to go to pure working homes to 1. be happy 2. reach their full potential and 3. not drive their new, green owner crazy?

Would you tell the person that there isn't a puppy suitable for them in the little? Or do you best at just choosing the one you think will be the best in a "companion only" environment and offer them a lot of guidance?

Again...not saying this is the case with the OP of the other thread and they wouldn't be able to handle a dog they ended up with since I do not know the person from Adam...but it did get me thinking about the topic.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think many breeders give preference to working homes. Most of the breeders I've met have way more demand than supply, so they can be picky about homes for every litter. You are not guaranteed a puppy or a "pick" by first come first serve. Just because someone can put down a deposit should not make a breeder feel like they have to do their best at matching a puppy if there really isn't a match. This has been my experience, as a buyer.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

and as a buyer, and having had gsd's "forever" ,) 

I agree with Lies. 

This is Masi's pedigree
danger danger vom kleinen hain pedigree information - German shepherd dog

Cute ain't she? ) I seriously doubt she would have done well with a first time gsd owner. She's ALOTTA dog, and a ALOTTA work, and I consider her high maintenance.
Don't get me wrong, she's exactly what I wanted, she has her quirks, but overall perfect for me. 

I do think tho, she wouldn't do real well with an inexperienced owner. 
Just my thought.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Most working line litters are going to produce some pups that are fine for pet homes. Some that are fine for first time dog owners too. It really depends on WHO the new owner is. Some first time dog owners are awesome owners for GSDs, and some experienced owners are not. Always comes down to the individual.

In our case, we don't take a lot of deposits for pet homes because we do prefer working/sport homes for the most part and most pups are suited to that, though those pups are also companions. I'd sell to a "just want a pet" home that was qualified before I'd sell to a work/sport home that intended to not allow the dog to be a companion and just a means to an end.

Its happened where a litter didn't have a suitable pup for someone, and it doesn't matter why there isn't a suitable pup as it happens with work/sport homes as well as with pet homes. In that case the person has their choice of either getting a refund of the deposit or transferring it to another litter.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Well, I put a deposit on this litter about two months ago. I will have "first pick" female. In my case, I am pretty sure of what I am looking for, and my first pick may not be someone else's first pick.
The breeder has agreed that if there is not a suitable puppy, I get my deposit back, or can move it to another litter.
At this point, I feel very comfortable so we will see how it all works out in a few months!


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Chris Wild said:


> It really depends on WHO the new owner is. Some first time dog owners are awesome owners for GSDs, and some experienced owners are not. Always comes down to the individual.


 I couldn't agree more. Actually, a person who is looking for a companion dog that will be taken everywhere and will be a hiking, jogging buddy requires a BETTER dog than a sport person whose main objective is competition only. 

I believe that a well bred GSD is a suitable dog for a first time owner with an open mind and desire to learn, and that first time owner will be to a much better start with a pup with superior genetics than with 'just a pet'. 'Just a pet' may turn the new owner away from the breed when a 'rockin' baby' will instill love and admiration for the breed to the rest of one's life.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

GSDElsa said:


> ... that have a ton of potential and need to go to pure working homes to 1. be happy 2. reach their full potential and 3. not drive their new, green owner crazy?


I disagree that only pure working homes satisfy the mentioned three conditions of puppy happiness.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

GSDs need physical exercise, mental stimulation, and quality one-on-one time spent with their owners. Yes, some working lines are more needy in those areas than dogs of other lines or breeds. But it doesn't take a "working home" to provide them.

By virtue of "work" or "sport" those needs are typically met simply through participation in that venue. Can't train a dog in agility, SchH, police work, service work, herding, tracking, obedience, SAR, etc... without dog and handler spending a lot of one-on-one time working together and giving the dog a lot of physical exercise and mental stimulation. But that doesn't mean that is the only way an owner can provide these things. There are plenty of "just pet" homes who can do so, in spades. It comes down to the personality and lifestyle of the person, not just if they have plans to seriously participate in some venue. 

Yes, an "experienced working home" can be more of a sure thing in that regard, because their plans to participate in such venues helps guarantee the dog's needs will be met and generally they have a better understanding of and commitment to doing that than many pet owners who may have good intentions at the onset, but then their interest and commitment to doing something with the dog wanes over time. One could say that "experienced working home" already knows exactly what s/he's getting into and likely has been there, done that before and already shown commitment. But that certainly doesn't mean that the pet home, or even first time dog owner, isn't up to the task. Most aren't, but many indeed are. Just gotta grill 'em thoroughly before selling them a pup to make sure.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Argos was my very first dog ever. DH had plenty of dogs prior to that, so he helped, but Argos was the first puppy he had to deal with since he was a kid (And we all know that responsiblity really falls on the parents). We lived in an 1 bedroom apartment with 2 cats in a college town. Perhaps not on paper the best option. However, we love that stupid dog. I would say that we evolved to meet his needs. I mean Jeez. 4 SchH dogs and I think we've missed maybe 4 weeks of training in 3 years? I was prepared for the commitment. 

Also I think that "pure" working homes have a slightly different agenda than a pet home that wants to do something with the dog. I know that when we got Cade, the goal was to do SchH. We literally spend hours every week working towards competition goals with the other dogs. Not to sound horrid or callous, but a dog that wasn't interested in our hobby didn't really have a place in our home. We picked a puppy with that in mind. If as he matured he wasn't interested in SchH, we weren't going to force the issue. We would have sold him to a "pet" home. Fortunately he's all about the work. And I would say that we're pretty mild as far as some "working" homes go. Our dogs all live in the house, get turns in bed and on the couch, get ice cream on their birthdays, and are spoiled rotten. We work through training issues. There are people out there that don't. If there's any kind of problem or the dog doesn't work with their training style, they dump the dog and try again. 

This mindset was not the case when we got Argos our "pet". We just wanted to do something. Whatever he wanted to do would have been fine with us. I think quality pet owners want to do activities to enjoy with their dogs and those people are awesome homes. The concern with a "pet home" is someone who wants a dog with unrealistic expectations and little research. They want something beautiful that will love them (read snuggle like a lap dog), protect their kids and their property and never bite hands, chew, mess on the floor, cry at night, go to a PetsMart puppy class and be well mannered for the rest of it's life. Those people also usually give up when the dog gets big and dump the dog.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

How is the pet home with the unrealistic expectations different from the working home that the dog doesn't match their training styles or meet their expectations in the end the dog gets dumped not sure how that is different. Also I really just don't buy it when people say dogs adjust to new owners (almost just like it doesn't matter if a dog ends up in a different home) don't think its really that easy if the dog has a bond with its owner


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I think the point was that it's not really about the "type" of home, more the individual. Either "type" can be bad or good. 

And I think that dogs do adjust. Dogs can have a healthy bond with their owners and still not pine away when the situation changes. The ones that completely freak out to me have an unhealthy reliance on their pack leaders.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

gagsd said:


> Well, I put a deposit on this litter about two months ago. I will have "first pick" female. In my case, I am pretty sure of what I am looking for, and my first pick may not be someone else's first pick.
> The breeder has agreed that if there is not a suitable puppy, I get my deposit back, or can move it to another litter.
> At this point, I feel very comfortable so we will see how it all works out in a few months!


Is the breeder picking the pup or are you? For some reason, I don't like the wording of "first pick", and as you stated, your requirements for a pup may be different than others, and the match for each pup is most important.
Karlo's breeder really focuses on matching pups to the potential owners and "first pick" never plays a part(unless she is keeping one or two for herself!


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

And that is why I put it in quotes


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