# Newbie here, looking for a breeder in northeastern USA



## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

We would prefer a breeder in New England, but we don't mind going a little further. We're hoping to spend between $500-$1000 since we want a pet as opposed to a dog that needs to be tractable enough to do competitions and clubs. A low to medium drive dog would be best for our lifestyle. We do vastly prefer white and black GSDs, and have a particular affinity for the long-haired variety, but coat length doesn't really matter. 

We would rather not rescue because I want a dog that can go hiking and bike riding with me, and we're concerned that rescuing is setting ourselves up for a dog with hip dysplasia and other health problems. If I'm wrong about this, let me know. We prefer rescue animals and have always had mutts, but since purebred GSDs are prone to so many issues, it doesn't seem as safe as rescuing a mixed breed that is not as likely to have health problems.

We did find one breeder that looks promising and their animals have excellent temperaments; I have met several of them and worked alongside one back when I was an animal-assisted therapist at a nursing home. The breeder is *Northern White Shepherds* in Vermont. Does anyone know anything about this breeder? Thanks!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

This site has some responsible breeders listed as well as answers to some of your questions. Good luck in your search! My advice would be to please take your time and learn as much as possible about the breed, different lines as well as how to choose a responsible breeder(usually one that has foundation lines and longevity they can prove with transparency)

German Shepherd Guide - Home


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> This site has some responsible breeders listed as well as answers to some of your questions. Good luck in your search! My advice would be to please take your time and learn as much as possible about the breed, different lines as well as how to choose a responsible breeder(usually one that has foundation lines and longevity they can prove with transparency)
> 
> German Shepherd Guide - Home


This is very helpful. Thank you.


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## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

My advice is to be a little more flexible on price. $500-$1000 is definitely on the low end if you're buying from a reputable breeder. Ultimately the purchase price of your pup is going to be the least of your expenses. In my opinion it would be better to spend a little more to go with a breeder whose has a sire and dam with good temperaments, X-rays parents for hips, spends for vaccines, quality food, etc.

Just to give you an example, when I was a kid we bought a cat from the local pet store. They wanted $10. My father was outraged and told them no way he'd spend more than $5 on a cat. We got the cat for $5. Six months later the cat developed an intestinal blockage. The vet told him the operation to save him would cost $1000 By then our family had become very attached to the cat. The cat had the operation. And that's how our $5 cat turned into a $1005 cat.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I remember buying a $3 cat from a pet store(this was way before puppymill/pet store partnership) and he was a long lived companion with no health issues. Though his front canine teeth were curled so we dubbed him Liquor(licorice, licker) because his tongue stuck out until his adult teeth came in. He was a very cool grey tiger.
That said, I so agree with John C....support the breeder doing it right, that means paying for their investment in their program. The good breeder health tests, trains, titles and knows exactly what their dogs strength/weaknesses are to help them decide on breeding matches to compliment the dogs. The least you'd pay is about a grand....though now and then good breeders sell for under that. Finding such a breeder is pure luck or knowing someone that knows someone/then trust is key.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

The general costs associated with dogs, such as vet bills, aren't a problem - we're just personally not comfortable spending more than $1000 on a puppy when something could still go wrong. Puppies are fragile. A friend of mine spent $3000 on a puppy from a fantastic breeder, and the puppy died from parvo.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Declan said:


> The general costs associated with dogs, such as vet bills, aren't a problem - we're just personally not comfortable spending more than $1000 on a puppy when something could still go wrong. Puppies are fragile. A friend of mine spent $3000 on a puppy from a fantastic breeder, and the puppy died from parvo.


You're most likely not going to find a well bred dog for under $1k.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

Lucy Dog said:


> You're most likely not going to find a well bred dog for under $1k.


What do you consider the minimum price range for someone who just wants a healthy dog with a good temperament and isn't looking to compete? I based my preferred price range off what I've seen from GSD breeders that do thorough health screenings and have dogs with good temperaments, but are located out of visiting range. Being able to visit the breeder and meet the dogs is important to us.

If we're vastly underestimating the cost of a German shepherd that's in good health and didn't inherit serious temperament issues, we will certainly reevaluate our expectations, but I found quite a few breeders that are well-known and well-liked who sell pups for around $700-$800.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Depends what you want. I really don't know what American show lines are going for. For working lines, expect to pay somewhere in the 1500-2000 range. For German show lines, expect somewhere in the 2000-3000 range. 

There's always exceptions, but I think those prices are pretty typical. I'd imagine none of the breeders jane posted in the link above charge $1k or less. 

And you keep mentioning you just want a pet and not looking to compete, but why should you have a dog with any less of a temperament than a dog that is able to compete in something? A pet dog should have every bit the nerve base than a dog that is going to compete or be worked. Breeders that are charging too good to be true prices are typically not the breeders anyone should be buying dogs from.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

Lucy Dog said:


> Depends what you want. I really don't know what American show lines are going for. For working lines, expect to pay somewhere in the 1500-2000 range. For German show lines, expect somewhere in the 2000-3000 range.
> 
> There's always exceptions, but I think those prices are pretty typical. I'd imagine none of the breeders jane posted in the link above charge $1k or less.
> 
> And you keep mentioning you just want a pet and not looking to compete, but why should you have a dog with any less of a temperament than a dog that is able to compete in something? A pet dog should have every bit the nerve base than a dog that is going to compete or be worked. Breeders that are charging too good to be true prices are typically not the breeders anyone should be buying dogs from.


A dog can have a good temperament as a companion without being tractable enough to participate in competitions, especially since we want a low to medium-drive dog. My only dogs have been rescued GSD mixes, so I don't know much about working vs show lines. I don't have much of a preference one way or another as long as my dog is healthy and has a good temperament.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Declan said:


> A dog can have a good temperament as a companion without being tractable enough to participate in competitions, especially since we want a low to medium-drive dog. My only dogs have been rescued GSD mixes, so I don't know much about working vs show lines. I don't have much of a preference one way or another as long as my dog is healthy and has a good temperament.


My advice is to do a ton of reading and put a list of names together of breeders with dogs you like, speak to the breeders directly, and go out and meet their dogs. Find the type of dog that works best for your situation. 

You mentioned you like white or black german shepherds. Keep in mind there is typically a big difference in the temperaments between the two. White gsd's typically come from American lines. Black gsd's typically come from european working lines. Big difference.

Also, since it's often confused, look up the difference between drive and energy. They're not one and the same. It's been discussed plenty on here.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

Lucy Dog said:


> My advice is to do a ton of reading and put a list of names together of breeders with dogs you like, speak to the breeders directly, and go out and meet their dogs. Find the type of dog that works best for your situation.
> 
> You mentioned you like white or black german shepherds. Keep in mind there is typically a big difference in the temperaments between the two. White gsd's typically come from American lines. Black gsd's typically come from european working lines. Big difference.
> 
> Also, since it's often confused, look up the difference between drive and energy. They're not one and the same. It's been discussed plenty on here.


We don't care about the dog's energy, just drive. Most of the dogs we've had have been high-energy/medium-drive. Our latest rescue is almost all GSD with some husky and what we're guessing is beagle, and she is low-energy/high-drive. Since we would like a purebred GSD next, we want to get one with a lower drive because we know having a purebred is probably going to be a more intense experience regardless of energy and drive, and it's important to us that our dog's prey/ball/etc. drive in particular is lower because we have two cats - one of which acts very much like a squirrel. I find that lower-drive animals are easier to keep happy and content as well. More difficult to work with because they're more prone to getting distracted, sure, but they tend to suit our lifestyle better.

I'll look into the difference in temperament between American and European lines. I wasn't aware there was a significant difference. Thanks!


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Good luck! No more wolf-dogs for you?!? 
I've got a husky. Does that count as one? {{{kidding}}}
C:


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

Zeeva said:


> Good luck! No more wolf-dogs for you?!?
> I've got a husky. Does that count as one? {{{kidding}}}
> C:


Thanks for the luck, Zeeva. No, after our boy passed away I don't think we could ever have another. Our cats now have health issues anyway, and I don't think they would be able to put up with a wolfdog-level prey drive.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't see why you can't get a rescue. If you are concerned with hips in a dog you are interested in then have them xrayed prior to adoption. With a rescue, you'll be able to see the energy and drive level prior to getting the dog.

And going with a "cheap" breeder increases your risk of getting a dog with health issues.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I know a few nice breeders in the area - but not for 1k

You will need to really know your breeder inside out for a deal like that to work out with the requirements you pose. Dogs out of breeding I would consider and recommend tend to run 1500+. 

Visit and talk to a reputable breeder in area. You will then realize why pups cost what they cost. I may have a litter per year, but I am on call 24/7 - no off time, no weekends, no vacations - a full time job with dogs plus my actual job. It's tough when done right. 

Many breeders live similar lifestyles. For a successful end product, incredible sacrifice and dedication is required. I would urge you to visit a few nice breeders and see the effort firsthand - good luck to you.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

I was looking for a higher drive dog with a stable non-nervy temperament. I want a dog that can work and be motivated but will also be a good family dog. And I prefer the look of the WL GSD to the show lines. 

And I wanted a natural reared puppy. 

I found all of that. And even though she will be a pet first and foremost, I expected to spend between $1500-2000..


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

Jax08, there are other issues that you can't necessarily know about without expensive testing that could end up being fairly disastrous. If the main argument against a $1000 dog is health issues, the same should apply to rescues. Even if I could be guaranteed a healthy rescue dog, the only GSD rescue close enough for a home check has specific requirements, and we don't meet all of them. Sometimes one comes up in a shelter or Craigslist, but you would have a terrible time trying to find a way to even x-ray those, let alone test them for other issues. Tests can be expensive, especially since there's no guarantee you wouldn't have to test several dogs before finding one that doesn't have any major health concerns.

Thanks for the advice, qbchottu. I understand where you're coming from, it's just that I know so many people who have healthy GSDs with excellent temperaments that didn't cost nearly as much. Puppies are so fragile that spending that kind of money on one makes me nervous. Don't get me wrong, I understand why it's a good idea to invest as much as possible into the puppy, my personal "limit" is just lower. Heck, I know a trainer who says any GSD less than $2500 isn't worth it.

Lauren, I understand that; I'm OK with a nervous or shy temperament, though. I rehabilitated a nervy (and occasionally human-aggressive) stray GSD/pit/Lab cross and worked in a nursing home alongside her after years of hard work, and I didn't get the benefit of being able to raise her from puppyhood. I know some of the less expensive GSDs tend to have a nervous nature. It's something that I'm willing to work with and not put off by. My main concerns are physical health, low prey drive and lack of aggression.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Declan - I am well aware of that. However, you can't "guarantee" any dog is going to be healthy. Personally, I think your list of wants is extremely limiting and may be not reasonable. And you are mistaking low drive for stable with an off switch. I have a high drive working dog but he is stable and he very much wants to please and work with me. Which makes him very easy to work with and live with.

Good luck in your search.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Declan - I am well aware of that. However, you can't "guarantee" any dog is going to be healthy. Personally, I think your list of wants is extremely limiting and may be not reasonable. And you are mistaking low drive for stable with an off switch. I have a high drive working dog but he is stable and he very much wants to please and work with me. Which makes him very easy to work with and live with.
> 
> Good luck in your search.


I'm a newbie to purebred GSDs, but I'm not a newbie to dog behavior and psychology. I'm not mistaking anything - I really don't want a high drive dog. I know what works for our lifestyle, and a high drive dog is not it, even at the lowest possible energy level.

I'm not sure what's unreasonable about what I'm looking for. We're hoping to spend less than $1000, we want a dog that has a nice temperament but don't care if the dog is tractable enough for competing, sports and clubs, and want a dog that is in overall good health... that's about it. The only thing I can see that might be a bit limiting is that we prefer black or white GSDs, but that's not set in stone.

Thanks for the good luck though.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

To add, if I didn't care about what I was getting and just wanted a cheap dog, I wouldn't be asking for advice on a breeder, nor would I have joined the forum in the first place. I feel that the general attitude of this thread has been somewhat condescending and hope this isn't common when a newbie is looking for help with something like this. It's a good way to chase someone off and ensure they end up making an uneducated decision that ends with a backyard breeder's unethical practices being financially supported.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

You are right - you are new and Michelle (Jax) has seen this type of exchange play out time and time before. I would take her advice into greater consideration. 

I think you won't see what We mean until you see it for yourself. Visit breeders in the 500-1000 range - then visit some 1500$+. Come back and tell us your impressions.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think you completely missed my point. And I have to much going on this morning to delve into it with you so maybe someone else can pick that up.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Nobody wishes to be rude or negative towards you, but when one loves the breed as we do, one wishes to see it prosper and flourish as per the original intent. 

When we see advice falling on deaf ears - we will have to back off. We cannot change your mind it seems so I recommend you visit breeders and see for yourself. 

However - we will not have many recommendations below 1000$. Same as if you wanted a new cherry red Ferrari for 10k - your options are limited at that point


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

I have worked alongside GSDs that come from several different local breeders. They were all wonderful dogs regardless of how much they cost. Other than health, which I couldn't observe, the only difference I noticed was tractability and drive. I don't need a high-drive, highly tractable dog. Do I admire them? Yes, of course, but I don't need one. As long as a breeder thoroughly health checks his/her animals and only breeds animals with good temperaments, I'm having a hard time seeing what the big deal is.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Exactly - you don't see it. So go see it for yourself. Visit a couple we recommend and visit a couple with 500-1000$ litters. I'm not hoping for you to fail, but I do hope you educate yourself to the ranges of breeders available before jumping on the lowest price option.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You keep saying you don't need a high tractable dog. IMO, if this dog is "just" a pet with a "newbie" owner then tractability is the first thing you should be looking for. You need a dog that is easily managed and has a good temperament. Just something to consider when talking to breeders.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

I'm not jumping on the lowest price option. If that were the case, I wouldn't be willing to spend up to $1000, and I even said that's what we're _hoping_ to spend. In other words, if we can't find a reputable breeder that fits that price range, we're willing to adjust it, but I have a hard time believing that doesn't exist, especially since I know so many fantastic dogs that didn't cost $1500. I would be a _lot _more open to discussing why just a few hundred dollars makes or breaks a breeder's reputation if it weren't for the condescending attitude I feel I've been subjected to throughout the thread.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Not a single person has been condescending. We've simply stated the truth on the less expensive dogs vs the dogs that are at the going market rate for good breeders. If you choose to take that personally instead of taking it as good advice then that's on you, not us. 

The difference between a 500 dog and a 1500 dog...

1) 500 dog most likely has no health testing of parents. No OFA, No DM.
2) 500 dog most likely has no titling or training of parents.
3) 500 dog is most likely from a person that slapped two dogs together with no regard to how the genetics are going to play out.

If you want a healthy dog then you need to stack the deck in your favor and look for these things. You will not find them in the 500-1000 range. 

Second, not all puppies in a litter are going to make the work/show cut. That doesn't mean they are worth less. It simply means they need to be placed appropriately. Out of my puppies litter, the one black male I wanted was more suited to a pet home.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

Jax, I understand where you're coming from and appreciate you taking the time to advise me, but I'm not a newbie to dogs - I'm a newbie specifically to purebred GSDs. When I talk about tractability, I mean I don't need a dog that's capable of some of the things a competing dog is capable of, and I understand why those dogs can easily cost well over $2000. So much time and energy is poured into breeding the absolutely ideal competing dog that I'm surprised they don't cost thousands more.

I'm excellent with dogs and have never had any trouble managing and training one. The stray GSD/Lab/pit mix I rescued had severe behavioral issues. I poured years of constant working and training into her and turned her into a therapy dog in a nursing home. Her behavior after all that work was impeccable. I'm not at all concerned about my ability to handle a dog.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Not a single person has been condescending. We've simply stated the truth on the less expensive dogs vs the dogs that are at the going market rate for good breeders. If you choose to take that personally instead of taking it as good advice then that's on you, not us.


I feel differently, and I believe that I'm entitled to my perspective, just as you are entitled to yours. I am listening to the advice that has been given to me, and I have been careful to explain that I understand where all of you are coming from. I have received several private messages about my desired price range that are helpful and don't have a condescending tone.



Jax08 said:


> The difference between a 500 dog and a 1500 dog...
> 
> 1) 500 dog most likely has no health testing of parents. No OFA, No DM.
> 2) 500 dog most likely has no titling or training of parents.
> 3) 500 dog is most likely from a person that slapped two dogs together with no regard to how the genetics are going to play out.


I would never buy from a breeder like that, though I don't personally care as much about titling (training is a different story). Keepsake, for example, is the opposite of all three of those and sells puppies for $1200 at the most and $800 at the least. They have been recommended to me multiple times, and I'm in the process of researching them.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Declan - YOU came here looking for advice. 

Here's the bottom line: you will not find many recommendations for kennels selling pups for less than 1000. Not because we are condescending, high and mightily, snotty people - but because through decades of experience, trial and error, and seeing history play out - we give a certain type of advice to self proclaimed newbies. 

You are new. You came here for advice. You didn't like the advice. You are now arguing against the advice given to you. 

Dogs below 1000 are not recommended because IF you do it right, you will barely break even. In the last 5 years, just on ONE problem dog, I have spent 10k. So we can safely say I am running at least a 10k deficit. Now add all the health tests, showing fees, trial fees, vet fees, food, meds, preventative treatment, travel, time it takes to raise the REST of my dogs. If I priced my pups less than 1k, unless I was independently wealthy, I realistically could not continue to operate. MANY reputable breeders are like this - no profit, endless work, never ending dedication. THIS is why they cost what they cost - good dogs can not be produced if the breeder cannot keep his or her head above water financially. 

How can you price your pups less than 1k? Don't show, don't train, don't trial, don't travel, don't buy new stock, don't breed to outside males, don't health test, do without preventative care, put them on sub par food, have many litters on the ground at once, have minimal involvement, opt for euthanasia when faced with costly health issues, don't offer guarantees, don't xray, don't DM test - don't bother because they are "just pets". 

"Just pets" are asked the most - they are public representatives of our breed, in contact with all kinds of people, required to be parts of your family for the next 10-15y. If done right, that dog will remain etched in your heart for the rest of your life. 

So you tell me - why don't "just pets" get same dissection, consideration, and vetting that show and sport dogs get? Why don't they matter because they are "just pets"? 

I ask you this because to me - my pet pups have the most asked of them. Why would I skimp on your family member for the next 15y? I wouldn't - but you tell me why "pets" should not matter as much.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

qbchottu said:


> Declan - YOU came here looking for advice.
> 
> Here's the bottom line: you will not find many recommendations for kennels selling pups for less than 1000. Not because we are condescending, high and mightily, snotty people - but because through decades of experience, trial and error, and seeing history play out - we give a certain type of advice to self proclaimed newbies. You are new. You came here for advice. You didn't like the advice. You are now arguing against the advice given to you.


I didn't say anyone was high and mighty or snotty. I feel the attitude towards me has been condescending. I have received several private messages from people who wanted to give me advice as far as my desired price range goes, and they were all very helpful. I didn't dislike the advice, nor am I arguing with it. What I'm arguing with is the apparent assumption that I don't know anything about dog psychology, behavior and training based solely on the fact that I'm a newbie to purebred GSDs. I have received the same advice via PM and had no problem with it. My issue is the delivery and attitude - not the advice.



> Dogs below 1000 are not recommended because IF you do it right, you will barely break even. In the last 5 years, just on ONE problem dog, I have spent 10k. So we can safely say I am running at least a 10k deficit. Now add all the health tests, showing fees, trial fees, vet fees, food, meds, preventative treatment, travel, time it takes to raise the REST of my dogs. If I priced my pups less than 1k, unless I was independently wealthy, I realistically could not continue to operate. MANY reputable breeders are like this - no profit, endless work, never ending dedication. THIS is why they cost what they cost - good dogs can not be produced if the breeder cannot keep his or her head above water financially.


This would be what I would consider good advice.



> How can you price your pups less than 1k? Don't show, don't train, don't trial, don't travel, don't buy new stock, don't breed to outside males, don't health test, do without preventative care, put them on sub par food, have many litters on the ground at once, have minimal involvement, opt for euthanasia when faced with costly health issues, don't offer guarantees, don't xray, don't DM test - don't bother because they are "just pets".


I'm not too concerned about guarantees since they are practically impossible to enforce, and don't have an issue with the parents not being shown and trialed, so that should reduce costs quite a bit.



> "Just pets" are asked the most - they are public representatives of our breed, in contact with all kinds of people, required to be parts of your family for the next 10-15y. If done right, that dog will remain etched in your heart for the rest of your life.
> 
> So you tell me - why don't "just pets" get same dissection, consideration, and vetting that show and sport dogs get? Why don't they matter because they are "just pets"?
> 
> I ask you this because to me - my pet pups have the most asked of them. Why would I skimp on your family member for the next 15y? I wouldn't - but you tell me why "pets" should not matter as much.


I never said pets shouldn't matter as much. However, a breeder whose focus is solely on producing good companion animals in good health is not necessarily going to be pouring thousands of dollars into traveling and doing shows, competitions, sports, trials etc. This is why I was clear that I want a pet quality dog and have no interest in competing.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Declan -
How should a breeder vet, test, and weed out breeding stock?

For example, when I consider a pup for breeding:
I don't even consider it a breeding prospect until she clears hip/elbows, DM, etc by a year old.
I see if her structure works out - but my opinion is not good enough. I show her several times in both puppy and adult classes under several judges to see how she matches against her peers in local, regional, and national venues.
Does my prospect have good temperament, and ability? Does she stay true to what the breed was bred to do? Again - my opinion means nothing. I take her to the dog club regularly, I train, I practice, I enter trials, I train with others, I show her work to my mentors, I gain achievements and titles with the prospect. 
Furthermore, she is tested by my mentors. I reach out to my friends and mentors to ask who would match my dog best. Of course they can answer well because they have seen my dog show, trial, train, and perform. 

So tell me - if one does not show, trial, perform, or test their breeding prospects in a public forum so that one can get opinions, advice, criticism, and evaluations on their prospects - who gets to decide the dog is worth it?

The breeder? Nope - too close to it - same reason you don't treat a family member as a physician. You are too close to it. 

So how do "pet breeders" survey their stock? Everyone thinks their own is perfect - so the breeder's opinion is moot and biased. How do we decide what gets bred?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

This is why good dogs cost what they cost. 

End of the day - you get what you put in, and I would much rather support someone whose heart and soul is in the breed rather than someone dabbling around the edges.

It is not about 500$ more or less - it is about what is the conscientious and prudent action to take


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

qbchottu said:


> Declan -
> How should a breeder vet, test, and weed out breeding stock?
> 
> For example, when I consider a pup for breeding:
> ...


If the parents have been thoroughly health tested, come from good lines, and have excellent temperaments, I don't see how the puppies could be the ticking time bombs it seems some of the people I've spoken with see them as. I think the way you breed is fantastic, and I admire the time and effort you pour into it. I just don't believe all that is necessary to produce a dog that's just a good companion. Otherwise mutts would be horrible pets. It doesn't really make sense to me. If I wanted a dog to compete with, there's no way I would even consider buying a puppy for less than $1500 at an absolute minimum, but that's not what I'm looking for.

Maybe I'm not cut out to be a good GSD guardian if I'm hesitant to spend $1500 on a puppy, but I have a hard time believing the hundreds of members here who paid less than that for theirs are bad and ignorant people, and that seems to be the general attitude on this thread - that if I want to pay less than $1000, I'm an idiot who doesn't know any better. That's not helpful, it's disturbing, because that's how people get chased off and end up making huge mistakes because they don't feel they have a safe place to ask for advice.


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## Declan (Jun 29, 2014)

And I do appreciate you spending the time and energy to talk to me.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Declan I don't think this price is specific to GSDs. I think the current running price for quality purebreds is $1500+...

Even if they "can" be produced for less, I'd prefer my breeder to not cut corners.


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## coloradogsd1 (Mar 17, 2013)

I have to disagree at some of the points, there are gsd out there for the price range your looking for. I bought my first gsd from a VERY GOOD breeder, cost 600 and he is now 10 and is the BEST gsd ever!! no health issues, great temperament, solid nerves. When he was younger I did tracking, advance obedience, agility and herding. He would play all day if we wanted but knew how to turn it off when at home. 

So don't let people tell you there are not gsd out there for your price range from a quality breeder. Do a lot of research and visit a lot of kennels. 

I am in the process of buying another gsd and I know what I want and what I am looking for but I also expect to pay 1500 to 2000 for what I want and I am ok with that.


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## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

Declan, as one of the first people to respond to your post, and the person who first suggested that your $500-$1000 price range was a little low, I don't think anyone here is trying to be condescending - just helpful.

You asked for advice on getting a puppy in this price range. I don't think it's a coincidence that the general consensus is that the going rate for a purebred GSD from a good breeder is going to be $1500 and up. In fact, some posters have taken the trouble to explain why quality puppies cost what they do.

I agree with you that purchasing any puppy is something of a crap shoot. Even top notch breeders produce puppies with health problems, bad hips, etc. And is it possible that you will find a puppy on Craig's list for $250 that turns out to be a great dog? Absolutely.

However, given that buying a puppy is always something of a crap shoot, what you can do is to try to stack the deck in your favor. Buying from a breeder who x-rays parents, does some kind of outside activities with his dogs that reveals their temperament, does prelim vaccinations of puppies, offers some kind of guarantee, etc. makes it more likely that you will get a good dog. And by good dog I don't mean a dog that will excel in schutzhund, or win blue ribbons in the show ring, I mean a dog that is healthy and has a stable temperament.

Given what it will cost you to care for and feed a dog over its lifetime, an additional $500 or even $1000 up front is short money. Moreover, if your dog develops serious health issues, or serious behavioral issues it's going to cost you a lot more than $500 to deal with, plus a lot of time, energy and heartache. The bottom line, I think we're just concerned that you're going to be penny wise and pound foolish.

Finally, if you are really concerned about the risks associated with buying a puppy, you might want to consider buying an older dog from a breeder. That way you will have a much better handle on the dog's underlying health and temperament.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I think you've gotten some excellent advice already but I'll share my experience as well

When I was searching for my GSD I knew I wanted a companion that had the potential to do various sports like agility, Rally, nose work, etc. I emailed many breeders and looked at their replied objectively. It was very obvious who was in it for the money - pressure to buy, offering discounts, multiple claims that couldn't be supported - those breeders I weeded out and dropped. Finally I was left with one, clear cut informative messages and an obvious love for the breed shone through. Every question was answered and I felt comfortable with my decision when I chose to say I wanted a puppy from this breeder.

In the end you can't just look at the number sign attached to the puppy, it's a 12-14 year commitment that you're purchasing and while it's a living breathing being that can't be guaranteed to never have a sick day in its life stacking the odds in your favour is never a bad thing.

If your budget right now is $1000 then save up a few hundred more, find a breeder that is breeding for health and temperament and stands being their lines 100%. As already stated even though Delgado is primarily a companion dog my expectations on a daily basis exceeds what most sports/working homes do. They focus on mainly one aspect - how well the dog performs in that particular venue. A companion is expected to perform in multiple venues - a watch dog that can discern friend from foe both on their territory and off. A dog that is adaptable and can go from home to a 8 hour drive for a camping trip that last two weeks, then back home and out again for a picnic. Being stable enough to be brought to multiple parades, outdoor concerts, markets, etc. at a moment’s notice.

If you want that health and temperament then it's worth the extra money to pay for a higher quality dog.

Could I have gotten a cheaper dog? Heck yes and that would have been money in my pocket but I could have ended up like all the other owners out there with GSD’s that are genetically a mess. Call around to local vets and obedience classes – one phone call will tell you what you need to know about the GSD population around you. My vet just adores my GSD and can’t rave enough about how healthy, stable, and happy he is whenever he sees him. It’s sad that good GSD’s are so hard to find but they are out there, you need to know where to look


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## coloradogsd1 (Mar 17, 2013)

Just a couple more points, I was in a rush and didn't get to finish my post.

I understand why people are "attacking" you and from a person on the outside looking in they have some good points but not all. Does a breeder that shows, does trials and breeds to the standard and have quality parents with great lineage but sells them for less then 1000 make that pup any less of a GSD then a 1500+ pup? NO 

I know of a few breeders that sell their pups for less then 1000 and I would put that dogs health, temperament and lineage up against ANY 1500+ dog any day of the week. My current GSD is just that dog. 

In my other post I mention I am looking for a 1500-2000 pup but the only reason I am looking in that price range is because I want a black GSD pup with the blood line I am wanting. But if I wanted a American line GSD I would be buying one from my previous breeder for -1000.


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## coloradogsd1 (Mar 17, 2013)

john c. said:


> declan, as one of the first people to respond to your post, and the person who first suggested that your $500-$1000 price range was a little low, i don't think anyone here is trying to be condescending - just helpful.
> 
> You asked for advice on getting a puppy in this price range. I don't think it's a coincidence that the general consensus is that the going rate for a purebred gsd from a good breeder is going to be $1500 and up. In fact, some posters have taken the trouble to explain why quality puppies cost what they do.
> 
> ...


 
great post


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

coloradogsd1 said:


> I have to disagree at some of the points, there are gsd out there for the price range your looking for. *I bought my first gsd from a VERY GOOD breeder, cost 600 and he is now 10* and is the BEST gsd ever!! no health issues, great temperament, solid nerves. When he was younger I did tracking, advance obedience, agility and herding. He would play all day if we wanted but knew how to turn it off when at home.
> 
> So don't let people tell you there are not gsd out there for your price range from a quality breeder. Do a lot of research and visit a lot of kennels.
> 
> I am in the process of buying another gsd and I know what I want and what I am looking for but I also expect to pay 1500 to 2000 for what I want and I am ok with that.


That was 10 yrs ago....


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Something else to keep in mind.... you spend $1500+ on that puppy with a responsible breeder; you aren't just buying that puppy. You are reserving the breeder's time and knowledge for the next 12-15 years.

You have gotten excellent advice, given in an upfront, non-condescending factual manner. What you do with the advice from this point is on you. Good luck.


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## coloradogsd1 (Mar 17, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> That was 10 yrs ago....


Yep, 10 years ago AND that breeder is still producing great pups for less then 1000 so they must be doing something right for the breed. Her dogs consistently win shows, CGC titles, SCH titles ect...They have been breeders for 40+ years.


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## coloradogsd1 (Mar 17, 2013)

Twyla said:


> Something else to keep in mind.... you spend $1500+ on that puppy with a responsible breeder; you aren't just buying that puppy. You are reserving the breeder's time and knowledge for the next 12-15 years..


 So are you saying that a breeder that sells -1000 pups don't or wont do the same?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

coloradogsd1 said:


> So are you saying that a breeder that sells -1000 pups don't or wont do the same?


If the breeder can't take the time to title and know their dogs, do the health testing that is needed, know the lines they are breeding and what they will produce; then transfer that same detailed interaction to the pups produced through med care, early socialization, puppy testing - why would I think they would take the time after the pup is sold?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Declan, I recommend you go visit breeders, talk to them thoroughly, ask about their experience, find out their history, find out what they really know other than the ability to throw two dogs together. Then meet the dogs. Ask about and have them show your proof of health testing (this should be the minimum). Get your hands on them so to speak, see them interact with their people, see how they are around you. Then look at puppies of the dogs and the breeders pass. Be critical. Ignore price. Just look at the dogs, the breeders and the puppies. If anything feels wrong walk away. Then decide who best fits your needs and the price of the pups will not matter (it may be in the $1000 range, maybe a little higher). 

Don't settle for problems. You have the experience to deal with them, but why pay someone to deal with a problem dog for the rest of its life? You want a lower drive dog as a pet, but you will also need health, good nerves and a sound temperament. Don't settle for less. 

I do not know this breeder and have only seen a few of her dogs. Also don't know the prices she charges, but might be worth contacting. From her website most of the pups go into pet homes. You will not find white dogs here, but she may produce blacks and long stock coats. 
Breeders of German Shepherds & Cairn Terriers | NH & MA | New Hampshire & Massachusetts - Pam Lake, Owner

Good luck in your search.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*People, repeating the same thing over and over again becomes brow beating. The OP has said her reasons for why she wants what she wants. Help her in the context of those desires or just let sleeping dogs lie. *

*Thank you,*

*ADMIN Lisa*


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## coloradogsd1 (Mar 17, 2013)

Twyla said:


> If the breeder can't take the time to title and know their dogs, do the health testing that is needed, know the lines they are breeding and what they will produce; then transfer that same detailed interaction to the pups produced through med care, early socialization, puppy testing - why would I think they would take the time after the pup is sold?


Everyone is entitled to their opinions.


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## Abby142 (Oct 16, 2012)

Declan said:


> .
> 
> Maybe I'm not cut out to be a good GSD guardian if I'm hesitant to spend $1500 on a puppy, but I have a hard time believing the hundreds of members here who paid less than that for theirs are bad and ignorant people, and that seems to be the general attitude on this thread - that if I want to pay less than $1000, I'm an idiot who doesn't know any better. That's not helpful, it's disturbing, because that's how people get chased off and end up making huge mistakes because they don't feel they have a safe place to ask for advice.


I just want to say that I was one of those members who paid less that $1500 on my puppy. Don't get me wrong, I love my dog, but I will never do that again. 

I went with a breeder who seemed like they had it all together. They promised that their dogs hips were great, and that all the grandparents were x-rayed and okay. I got the meet the dad, and play with the puppies and everything seemed great. The dad was calm, cool, and like a really nice dog. The breeders were really nice and I walked away with my $600 feeling really good about myself. Than the problems started. For the first few months we had our girl she had constant tummy issues and we spent thousands of dollars on vet bills, test, and medication. We finally figured out it was allergies and got that all sorted out. When we had her spayed they checked her hips, only to find that they didn't look so good. They weren't awful, but she will mostly likely develop HD later in life. While her empowerment is normally pretty good she has some crazy prey drive and she OCD (she will chase shadows and has to be forcibly removed from the situation). She is a great dog, but next time I will be doing more research and paying a lot more upfront for the puppy. Its not a guarantee of a better dog, but it certainly puts the odds in my favor. 

When I tried to get a hold of the breeder to let her know all the problems we had she quick responding. She also told me that they had had a dog with HD in the past, and that it was nothing to worry about (the total opposite of when they told us all of their dogs had great hips when we went to visit). I had no support from them.

If people seem condescending it is just because many of us have been where you are now and are just trying to save you the heartache we went through. Just something to consider.


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## mydogs (May 4, 2012)

Go to a rescue


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Well bred GSD's with health clearances, titled parents are going to run about $1500. That's just the market for a well bred GSD. 

I would consider a rescue if I were you. Getting a PB doesn't guarantee good hips, and getting a rescue doesn't mean the dog is unhealthy. You get to see what the dog is like as an adult, you know of any known health issues up front. A lot of great GSD's end up at rescues, so please keep an open mind.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Declan said:


> We would prefer a breeder in New England, but we don't mind going a little further. We're hoping to spend between $500-$1000 since we want a pet as opposed to a dog that needs to be tractable enough to do competitions and clubs. A low to medium drive dog would be best for our lifestyle. We do vastly prefer white and black GSDs, and have a particular affinity for the long-haired variety, but coat length doesn't really matter.
> 
> We would rather not rescue because I want a dog that can go hiking and bike riding with me, and we're concerned that rescuing is setting ourselves up for a dog with hip dysplasia and other health problems. If I'm wrong about this, let me know. We prefer rescue animals and have always had mutts, but since purebred GSDs are prone to so many issues, it doesn't seem as safe as rescuing a mixed breed that is not as likely to have health problems.
> 
> We did find one breeder that looks promising and their animals have excellent temperaments; I have met several of them and worked alongside one back when I was an animal-assisted therapist at a nursing home. The breeder is *Northern White Shepherds* in Vermont. Does anyone know anything about this breeder? Thanks!


Try contacting the breeder Lisa suggested. My 14 year old was not from that breeder but from her stud dog-she has been very healthy -has had health issues in her later years but I think that is to be expected. She is wonderful with children very tolerant and other dogs. There may be some rescues that would do xrays or you could work out some sort of agreement with since you said that you prefer rescues. My GSD rescue was a senior -she also had very few health issues until her later years. 

The other thing you could try is just visiting clubs and training You might run into someone who is doing a first breeding or not as well known. Good luck with your search.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Declan said:


> I feel that the general attitude of this thread has been somewhat condescending and hope this isn't common when a newbie is looking for help with something like this.


Please try not to take the comments personally. I'm not seeing anything in this thread that screams condescension, I think people are sincerely trying to help.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Where is whiteshepherds? She'll know of reputable white GSD breeders.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Declan, it sounds to me like you want a great companion/family dog. I am going to re-post a response I made on another thread. It speaks to what I want in a companion dog (which sounds like what you want) and how I go about finding one.

And, as a preview, my current dog is a white german shepherd pulled from a shelter by an all-breed rescue. I encourage you to check out not just breed-specific rescues in your area, but also all-breed/all dog rescues. You might be surprised how many GSDs you find outside of breed-specific rescues.

Here is the post I referred to earlier:


> To me, a great companion dog is not just a house dog, rather it is a dog that can go out in the world with me without me having to worry about how the dog will handle crowds, traffic, noises, new environments, passing cyclists, skateboarders, joggers, random folks stopping to pet him, etc… you know, all the things a city dog would have to be able to handle if it ever was to leave your house/yard/block/neighborhood.
> 
> I am breed-neutral in my choice of a dog, I just look for a shelter/rescue dog that I think has the potential to be the type of companion dog I want. My current dog did not walk out of the shelter being the perfect companion dog (by my definition). But, as I was his foster home, I got to know him and felt he had the right characteristics (handler focus, desire to please) to become one with some TLC and training… turns out I was right : )


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