# Advice on pedigree?



## CAB (May 18, 2008)

Hi guys, I'm thinking about getting pup from one of these males in the future. Not too sure about the female but based on the male which would you choose and why?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/518916.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/392104.html


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## nanrao (Nov 27, 2002)

Hi Craig,

I think you know my answer to this one 

Hope you find what you are looking for.

Nandini


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Couldn't tell you anything about this pedigree but you might want to post the pedigree question on the GSDEuro board or the Pedigree Database.


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## CAB (May 18, 2008)

I wonder what that might be Nandini?


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## luvsables (May 7, 2007)

Based on the two pedigrees alone I would consider the second one. I am not familar with the 1st one. A pedigree can look good on paper but a pedigree is just the 1st step to choosing a pup. I highly suggest if you can see both parents, watch them work and see how their temperments are. Talk with the breeder since they know their dogs better then anyone(you would hope anyway) Ask why they choose this breeding and what do they expect the pups to be like. All this said it is still a crap shoot with a pup no matter where you get one from.

Maybe Trish from Triton kennels or Lee Hugh from Wolfstrum Kennels will see this and give you their opinion. They frequent this board alot and have experience with pedigrees.

Good Luck in your search


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Based strictly on pedigree, without knowing the dogs or the dam who will be used (and both should be HUGE factors in selection) I would go with dog #1.

The Talka Marda dogs, including several of Jarek's littermates, have been hugely successful both in their own performance and their ability to produce excellent working prospects. That right there speaks to the quality of the dogs and bloodlines, particularly when it is seen consistently across several individuals, not just one dog.

Dog #2 has been successful in his own right on the performance field. And I do really like much of his pedigree. I have owned several dogs closely related to him, and currently own 2 offspring of his maternal grandsire, Ernst, and a granddaughter of his paternal great-grandsire, Pike. These are some of my favorite bloodlines. However the pedigree to me is unbalanced, and while I love many of these bloodlines I wouldn't care to see them combined together this way or this closely. 

Of course, more knowledge about this dog, his own siblings, and what he's produced in previous litters may prove me wrong on that. But since I don't have that info (especially compared to the notariety of Dog #1's immediate family), I'm basing this just on the pedigree alone.


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## CAB (May 18, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been told that Talka Marda is one of, if not the best kennel in Germany. Nandini told me how amazing Jarek's dam or grand dam is and how she has produced quite a few WUSV competitors just off about 4 litters. The bitch I think would be: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/478183.html

I understand how important the actual dog is and not just their pedigree so I'm going up to watch the nationals next weekend. 

How much influence does a great male such as Pike, Arthus, Fero, Troll etc carry when they're 4-4 or 5-5 generations up?


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## CAB (May 18, 2008)

What are your opinions of trial scores when looking at a dog as I'm not sure that Jarek scored too highly?


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## nanrao (Nov 27, 2002)

Hi Craig,

I think I need to clear a few things here. I don't think Talka Marda is one of the best or even the best kennels in Germany. They have a lot of quality to their breedings, but I am sure they will agree that there are many good breeders out there. They are certainly not mass producers and I personally think they are one of the more intelligent breeders out there. Again, my opinion only.

Secondly, Quaste did not have many progeny at the WUSV - she had one son in 2005, one son in 2007 and a grandson in 2007. So that would make it 2 sons and 1 grandson. At the 2007 BSP (which as you might have guessed is different from the WUSV ), she had John, Javir, Jenna and Hektor - so that would be 3 sons and 1 daughter. Another son, Jimbeam qualified but then injured himself so did not show. 

As for the rest, I will let others respond. But I just felt I had to respond to some of it, because I felt it did not portray a correct picture of the kennel.

Good luck in your decision.

Nandini


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## CAB (May 18, 2008)

Just to clear things up: Nandini did not tell me that Talka Marda is one of, if not the best kennel in Germany. Another breeder told me that who seems very knowledgeable with bloodlines. 

I've been adivsed about another male that is really superb. 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/133237.html


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I like the cross between Jarek and Nora. Both Jarek and Nora are out of exceptional and proven bitches. I would have to do a bit more research, but this is the cross I like. 

The J litter Talka Marda is a fantastic litter. I really like JimBeam and would love the chance to breed Vala to him. 

Trial scores? I look for consistency, but more so I look at the dogs themselves. Often the best breeding dogs are not the top winning dogs. Scores can reflect good training on a great dog, good training on a so so/weak dog, bad training on a great dog and bad training on a so so/weak dog. Only by seeing the dogs in person will you know this. Otherwise you must strongly trust the experience and knowledge of the person doing the breeding.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Just to add to what I wrote, who the male is bred to matters as much as the male himself. Many people forget this. The bitch is not just an oven and has a great influence both genetically and environmentally on the puppies.

If your goal is a strong dog to compete in SchH then look at puppies out of females of the same caliber.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

As Lisa said, Males are only half the equation - it would all depend on the female each of these was bred to IMO. I see elements in all three males I like and some things I don't like as well. 

Characteristics can pop up from further back in the pedigree, and line breedings have to be considered for the positive, the negative. I also like to look at what similar combinations have produced in other litters. 

Lee


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## CAB (May 18, 2008)

Thanks again guys. Canto has proven himself with being an outstanding dog, comming 11th in the WUSV and producing some outstanding offspring. This is Jarek's first litter so no one is too sure about how the combination will work. 

Yarek was quite new to the country for last years nationals so that might be why he didn't get a great score. I'm looking forward to see how he performs at this years trials.

Canto also has two great sons competing so I can see how they all do. 

Where can I find out more info on various litters such as how the rest of the J litter is doing? pedigreedatabase.com might not be updated for some of them. 

Even if Jarek turned out to be a dud, would his offspring be bad because of him or good because of his pedigree?

Craig


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

I would go with the 1st male, depending on who the dam is. As mentioned, the J litter as well as another litter produced by Quaste, has done extremely well. She is a well known female in the working lines - a lot of people watch her progeny.

We saw her in Steyr (?) at the WUSV. AWESOME work - much better than most of the males and she was in the top 3?

And she was V at the German Sieger show, KK1 and producing both the work and the structure!


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