# Question about Eastern/DDR lines



## torizmojo (Apr 26, 2009)

Well, we're still narrowing down our search for our next GSD. Hubby has opened up his mind as far as colors go, so that is music to my ears. He was stuck on the classic 'saddleback' look for a while, since that is what Faust was. I was glad that I was able to talk to DH and have gotten him to consider sables or blacks as well. I thought that it might be a good idea to turn towards a different look for our next GSD, so that we wouldn't be as apt to compare him to Faust.









After running into a couple of smaller shepherds today, he did let me know that he is interested in a good size GSD with a bigger head. I don't mean 150+lb dogs, since we're interested in healthy dogs first and foremost. Faust was about 27" at the shoulder and was around 80lbs, so maybe around his size. Give or take a little.

So far, we're really liking the Eastern German lines. Their temperaments, build and the fact that they have an on/off switch seem to be what we are looking for. I want to do at least obedience, possibly tracking and I'm open to other venues. My hubby is just looking for a dog that wants to play fetch outside and can chill out inside(unlike our Border Collie mix lol). We both want a GSD that isn't skittish or fearful. 

So my new question is, what size do the Eastern/DDR lines average? Thanks for your input!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

The breed standard calls for a male to be between 24 and 26 inches. There is no stated difference between the blood lines as far as I know. That said there are many dogs that will go a bit over or under. My Max is 27.5, My Havoc is 26.5. They are both West German Showline dogs. 

You wnat to buy from a breeder that is breeding to the standard not breeding for size. The pup you get may end up a tick big.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

My pups fathers is from DDR lines and tops out at the tip of the scale; 26" at the withers.

They also tend to "look bigger" due to the blocky head and from my experience, atleast with the males, tend to look stockier and more 'filled out' if that makes sense? The just look more solid to me.

An example, this is Stark's father, a pure black DDR lined boy:




























I really like this line and the Czech lines they seem to be a little more intense and have sturdier nerves and temperaments. Your getting a GSD, so I want one that is the whole package, ready to work, ready for any situation, high drive, high energy when needed but also a great companion.

Good luck!


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## torizmojo (Apr 26, 2009)

Thank you for your response, Kathy. Like I said, I'm not looking for the biggest or heaviest GSD. We were just wondering if the Eastern lines were on the larger side of normal.









Elisabeth, thanks, that is what I was wondering. We like the stockier look with the big head.







He's a handsome boy.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i personally like the DDR lines/Czech lines much better. i think they are smarter. more responsive, etc, etc. i have had most all the different lines throughout my lifetime and at this point of all that i've seen the DDR/Czech lines are my pick. 
although in any line there can be a chance of a puppy having a fearish issue i know because i spent a long time researching breeders tried to do my homework, etc etc and ended up with just that.......choosing to keep him i opened myself up for ALOT of hard work....So much different having the stable/confident dog, and that is exactly what i hope you get!







Best of Luck to you......


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

My dog is Eastern/DDR lines & he is 1 year old 27 1/2 inches & 90-95 pounds.
He isnt lanky or has he ever been. His head is blocky & he has alot of muscles.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i do think the DDR's tend to be Very muscluar, and i like that look! my female is like that, she's built like a ton of bricks! and she ain't scared of nothin!


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

OH yah, Kilos mom was HUGE! 
Heres a pic of his father, & him

Zar (His father)










Kilo


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm not sure DDRs are on average any taller or larger, but they tend to look like a pack of power b/c of the nice bone and the massive heads. Also I see a lot of people using them for sport or police and the dogs are in very good condition, look well muscled which adds to the big and blocky appearance.


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## torizmojo (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks for all your responses.









I guess we're going to start narrowing down breeders. Hopefully sometime after Feb, we'll be adding another GSD to our crew. Its been a long 6 months so far and I can't wait until we have another GSD in the house.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

are you going with local DDR breeders?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

this was my ddr sired boy, Dodge









He passed away last april @ 12yrs of age. His sire came from von hena c in NH,,this dog was the 'perfect' gsd, very go with the flow, would go all day if I wanted to, or slug all day,,he could go into any situation and be fine with it,,my idea of the 'perfect' shepherd. 
I will never find another boy like him) He was 26" and 85lbs at his heaviest. Longer vs taller, he "appeared" bigger than he was.

This is my new girl Masi she is slovakian/ddr/czech








She doesn't have that huge ddr head, but then again, she's a girl) and has the slovak/czech in her to..She's 19 mths, and right now rather LARGE for a girl,,but I love her,,she's 26" and 73lbs..
Her grandfather is Reiko v hena c, dad is owned by Kleinhain (wanda) here on the board. Gotta say, she is a ball of fire, and demands alot of attention/exercise/mental stimulation. She's almost the "perfect" dog for me, she's still young, DDR dogs tend to mature late..she's really smart, sometimes scarey smart) 

And since you have aussies,,this is my girly aussie Jynx, who keeps Masi in line,,she just turned 10))









Good luck in your search, there are alot of nice DDR dogs in the New England area


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Diane, i wanna cry when i see Dodge, he looks like such nice cuddley teddy bear! what a great dog!

i agree that moni should contact Wanda (Klienhain) or affiliated lines........


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I miss that boy!! of course masi doesn't give me much time to dwell on him, but someday I'll have another male like him ))


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## torizmojo (Apr 26, 2009)

Diane, Dodge does sound like he was the perfect GSD. I'm sorry for your loss. Masi and Jynx are beauties. I love Jynx's mask, too cute! Its great seeing pups in their double digits.







Mojo has been my heartdog for 13yrs and I'm treasuring every additional day that I have with my old man. 

Debbie, I've just been bookmarking sites of recommended breeders, or dogs that I've seen and liked. I've gotta say that the search has gotten a little easier now that Jay has opened up to sables. Before that I was going out of my mind. lol

Jay does want a local breeder though since he wants to meet at least one of the parents. So someone in New England, Central/Eastern NY or Eastern PA area would be the best fit. I only know of a couple Eastern German breeders in New England, so any recommendations would be appreciated.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

moni these aussies are a comical lot,,Jynx is an mdr1 dog, she almost died a few years ago, but I pulled her out of it,,thank goodness she's been healthy otherwise (knock on wood)..

re: the gsd's,,thanks, I've always been blessed with some remarkable dogs , I tend to go with brains, but have been lucky to have had "lookers" as well.

I know of vonhena-c in NH, and I think it's barrenberg (?)in MA, who has lovely ddr dogs, ( littledmc on the board has "brady" who's from them he's gorgeous) another I like in CT Old Farm Kennels, gorgeous dogs,,and Grasso Shepherds in CT,,(angel R's dog came from him) he has nice dog flesh on his website..I think he imports mostly..

I'm sure others will chime in.. Good luck in your search!


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

there is also a ddr kennel in upstate new york, i was looking into them at one time real nice dogs......for the life of me i can't remember at the moment.....


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

http://www.spartanville.com is a DDR breeder. 
Puck vom Grafental is a very handsome blockyheaded stud.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

ok. the upstate breeder of DDR is Osthugelland she has some awesome dogs, she is also very informative and helpful........i think its worth checking out......just google search for the site.


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## spartshep (Feb 20, 2008)

Strictly from a looks perspective, the DDR and old Czech bloodlines are built with strong bone and muscle, very athletic. They have broad heads and wide muzzles. The DDR dogs have a definite on-off switch, they are very stable in nerve and temperament. The Czech dogs are a bit more driven as to prey, but have a nice balance of defense, especially when bred to a DDR. Both possess natural defense/protection qualities.

Here are a few pictures...in order, they are Puck & Bea, both DDR and Jamba, Czech~~~enjoy!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

This is my 18 month old Otto von Hena-c. Fabulous pup, he trots for an hour then comes home and picks up his ball. Or if I need him to inside and settle down, he's good with that too. Very very smart pup, brave and friendly. A little nutty around my kids in a strange place but I'm hoping with age comes wisdom.










This is his sire, Xander. His owner, Lori, is really great to talk to. I recommend contacting her, X has 2 litters on the ground right now.

http://vonhena-c.com/DogBios/xander.html

Otto actually turned out a bit bigger than his father, he's about 25" tall. Everyone says he's massive but he's an optical illusion becuase he's wide but not tall (I'm 5'3")


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## BlkCzechGSD (Jul 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: spartshepStrictly from a looks perspective, the DDR and old Czech bloodlines are built with strong bone and muscle, very athletic. They have broad heads and wide muzzles. The DDR dogs have a definite on-off switch, they are very stable in nerve and temperament. The Czech dogs are a bit more driven as to prey, but have a nice balance of defense, especially when bred to a DDR. Both possess natural defense/protection qualities.
> 
> Here are a few pictures...in order, they are Puck & Bea, both DDR and Jamba, Czech~~~enjoy!




GORGEOUS DOGS!!! I so love them!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I have a 9 week old DDR female puppy right now that I am really enjoying...she will be black sable when grown.


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## gagrady (Apr 27, 2009)

"My hubby is just looking for a dog that wants to play fetch outside and can chill out inside(unlike our Border Collie mix lol)"

Yes to everything that is said above. Word of caution from my limited experience - just playing fetch is most likely NEVER enough, especially if you have Czech lines in the pedigree. 

Our puppy, Hugo, is seven months and has strong Czech/DDR lines. Very intense, high drive, outstanding temperament but will take over if not managed. Pure DDRs may be a little less demanding in terms of 'managing' the puppy but I would really recommend that you review all aspects in addition to the looks if not already done.

If you are simply referring to having a great off switch then you should not have much trouble finding that. 



Don't know many


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## torizmojo (Apr 26, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: gagrady
> Yes to everything that is said above. Word of caution from my limited experience - just playing fetch is most likely NEVER enough, especially if you have Czech lines in the pedigree.


Sorry I did word that weird, but yes I was only trying to point out what we meant by 'off switch'. Hubby likes to play and hang out with the dogs and that's it. I'm the one that likes training and working with them. 

I like working in obedience since that is what I'm used to, but I enjoy anything that involves us working together. So I'm pretty open on what to work on. This new Nosework training is really piquing my curiosity and I'd love to look into that. I used to love playing 'hide & seek' games with Faust and would constantly be amazed at his abilities. I'm so thankful to be getting back into training with my dogs after a hiatus due to health problems.









Thank you all for the references, I will be checking into them and see what they will have available around Feb or later.

Puck is a very handsome boy, I believe he is behind an upcoming litter that I'm considering(if I can talk Hubby into looking at breeders outside of New England). I did try looking at his website, but Firefox keeps shutting down for some reason. I'll try on IE in a couple minutes.









My eyes and ears are still open though, thanks again for helping point me in the right direction.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: gagrady"My hubby is just looking for a dog that wants to play fetch outside and can chill out inside(unlike our Border Collie mix lol)"
> 
> Yes to everything that is said above. Word of caution from my limited experience - just playing fetch is most likely NEVER enough, especially if you have Czech lines in the pedigree.
> 
> ...


I agree. I have Czech lines & this is a VERY ACCURATE statement LOL
I just started doing search/tracking with my boy. He LOVES it and its metally&physically tiring.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

not to hijack the thread, but Angel,,are you doing stuff on your own or did you find someone locally who trains in tracking??

Am looking for someone to train tracking with)

And YES, my ddr/czech girl, is a ball of fire) she doesn't spud around much , but that keeps me on my toes..I found my ddr male was much more a 'go with the flow' type..

CONNIE,,love your dogs, they are gorgeous,,and I'm partial to that color as well ))


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I love Puck and Bea and wouldn't hesitate to go with one of Connie's puppies!


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## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

Loki, my little Czech is like playing football with Ray Lewis









I had mentioned in a earlier thread that when Loki plays, tugs, hits the sleeve, etc, he plays to destroy whats in his way.

I totally agree about how they can take over in an instant. They are so explosive, but for my Loki, he takes a calmer hand, if I matched his intensity, it would further add to his drive/focus on what he is after. 

From 630 a.m. to 9 p.m., it's non stop hiking, tugging, bite sleeve, swimming, off lead training, ball chasing, etc. I have also noticed with Loki that he could care less if he meets people, he is friendly, very aloof, and cares more about his tennis ball or tug toy. Totally focused on me, loves his pack (including 5 cats), very dominant dog in a small package. Loki weighs between 77-80lbs.

A pick of Loki, he is 13 months old, compared to my oversized almost 5 year old (West German Show lines), Jasper.




















Pedigree (I think Loki is about 75% Czech, 25% DDR), I think.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/589832.html

My photobucket sight with plenty of pics to see his transformation.

http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss18/LokiJasper/?start=0


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## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

I also like Connie's pups/dogs









I also like Steve Lino's

http://www.vomlinmarc.com/html/about_german_shepherds.html


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Jack, just wanted to say, Loki is one handsome boy!! And Jasper looks great!


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## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: JakodaCD OAJack, just wanted to say, Loki is one handsome boy!! And Jasper looks great!


Thank you Diane, I really appreciate your words


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Jack, and where do you live again? I'd go there and steal Loki from you







He is absolutely to die for


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## riorider (Jul 21, 2009)

Where did you get Loki?


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## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07Jack, and where do you live again? I'd go there and steal Loki from you
> 
> 
> 
> ...










Charlotte, NC, good luck, Jasper is very fond of his brother.

Thanks.

Laughing dog, here is were Loki is from, 

http://www.vandenheuvelk9.com/


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## riorider (Jul 21, 2009)

Who are Loki's parents? I didn't see any that really look like him on the web page. He has a gorgeous coat, in addition to gorgeous coloring. But you say he is a handful? No "off" switch?


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## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: laughing dogWho are Loki's parents? I didn't see any that really look like him on the web page. He has a gorgeous coat, in addition to gorgeous coloring. But you say he is a handful? No "off" switch?


Orry

http://www.vandenheuvelk9.com/orry.html


Gasi

http://www.vandenheuvelk9.com/gasi.html

LOL, he has a off switch, but it's generally after he has been worked for awhile. I have found the difference between being high strung and high drive. My Jasper his high strung (with a nice off switch), Loki is just pure high drive with a switch you have to kind of find









We have a set schedule for the day, depending on work, it changes from work days, to off days. 

Depending on how amped up he is, is usually how I decide what to do first with him (after our first trip to the park, for long ball throws-chuck it stick).

He will settle when I settle, but the second you get up, he thinks its time for fun and games, and usually it is.

I think the off switch will be faulty for a few years


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## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: spartshepStrictly from a looks perspective, the DDR and old Czech bloodlines are built with strong bone and muscle, very athletic. They have broad heads and wide muzzles. The DDR dogs have a definite on-off switch, they are very stable in nerve and temperament. The Czech dogs are a bit more driven as to prey, but have a nice balance of defense, especially when bred to a DDR. Both possess natural defense/protection qualities.
> 
> Here are a few pictures...in order, they are Puck & Bea, both DDR and Jamba, Czech~~~enjoy!


Beautiful dogs, Constance,

Question for something you had mentioned, in regards to prey and defense drive. I thought it was more in the Czech lines that they had more defense drive, then to prey drive?

I had past issues prior to getting Loki about him being "welcomed" to a local Schutzhund club (because of his Czech bloodlines), they were all West German bloodline dogs. The club president was a real snob about the bloodlines issue. 

Further, when I had spoken to Jaspers breeder (she is in Germany), she had found out that I went with Czech bloodlines, and she had nothing good at all about the Czech Bloodlines, she just called them "freaks"









This was the last time I spoke to her, not planning on further conversation. I was also curious about why these people in this West German bloodline field tend to put down the Czech bloodline?, just bizarre. 

Thanks, and again you have awesome dogs.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i was always under the impression DDR line had higher defense drives.at least having them for many years it seems to hold true, also not lacking in the prey drive either..........basically anything that moves is a potential target with my group....


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I have a Banach dog who is such a pleasure to have, some days he's pushes it but I will always love him. He's only 20 weeks but his nerves are SOLID, absolutely NOTHING bothers this boy. 
Right now he's going through a suspicion stage as I was told some DDR pups are a little suspicious around people because they don't know how to control it yet. Or as Oksana wrote, "Chris said that sometimes when the DDR puppies are young they can be mistakenly labeled as nervy because their suspicion and defense surface before they are mature enough for controlling these."








Akbar is my first DDR dog and I am learning with him. I take him anywhere and he acts like he owns the place.








Akbar is great at lounging around the house, probably cause he copies my other two. He loves to play and chase after his ball, has food drive which is great but I wont be doing compt ob for a while with him, he's not all there, lol. But he certainly is built like a truck. At 20 weeks he weighs 56lbs.


















His sire is Aron
http://vombanachk9.homestead.com/stud_dogs.html

His dam is Hexon "exa"
http://vombanachk9.homestead.com/Females.html


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

DDR dogs usually have balanced drives that mature somewhat slower that the West working or show lines. They also tend to develop slower than a lot of the Czech dogs. This is because most sch training today is primarily prey training and the dogs with a higher ratio of prey, progress and thrive in this environment. Also, many helpers and decoys today don't know how to activate DDR type dogs when they are ready and lastly, a lot of owners of DDR dogs in Sch clubs get frustrated waiting for the dog to progress to the point the prey monsters do. All of the DDR dogs that come to the states from Germany as adults are titled, so evidently they can do sch adequately. I have DDR female puppy now and I have no expectation that she will progress on the same timeline as my West male...but she will get to the same place as an adult, and that's all that is important to me.


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## snakeman (Dec 24, 2009)

[/quote]

Beautiful dogs, Constance,

Question for something you had mentioned, in regards to prey and defense drive. I thought it was more in the Czech lines that they had more defense drive, then to prey drive?

I had past issues prior to getting Loki about him being "welcomed" to a local Schutzhund club (because of his Czech bloodlines), they were all West German bloodline dogs. The club president was a real snob about the bloodlines issue. 

Further, when I had spoken to Jaspers breeder (she is in Germany), she had found out that I went with Czech bloodlines, and she had nothing good at all about the Czech Bloodlines, she just called them "freaks"









This was the last time I spoke to her, not planning on further conversation. I was also curious about why these people in this West German bloodline field tend to put down the Czech bloodline?, just bizarre. 

Thanks, and again you have awesome dogs. [/quote]


As someone who is considering DDR pup as my next GSD, I am very interested in hearing Constance's reply.
I am not yet a member of the local Sch club, but I do occasionaly stop by to watch training and ask questions. Quite to the contrary, everyone who I've talked with at the club recommended a dog from working lines rather than West German show lines if I wanted to get involved with the club.
Constance, I was looking at your website a few minutes ago....what beautiful dogs!
Regards, Bill


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