# Incessantly barking at other dogs (8 wks)



## khay (Jun 1, 2017)

Hi there, i realise my puppy is young, but i would like advice on dealing with this please? i plan to get him into puppy classes, but in the meantime, how can i manage trying to socialize him to other dogs?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Don't worry about it right now.It can do more harm than good to overwhelm him with new experiences.It's much more important to spend time at home bonding with your puppy,house training,crate training,acclimating him to your family and routine.Remember he's just been on this earth a few short weeks


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## khay (Jun 1, 2017)

Are you trying to tell me i'm too gung-ho? :surprise: I just want to make sure he is well adjusted and can tag along to all our activities issue-free  He is my first shepherd although i have owned dogs my whole life. His reaction to other dogs makes me nervous.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I agree with dogma - he is barking because he is insecure and is trying to keep the scary other dogs at a distance. 

Exposing him on a regular basis to scary situations when he is not mentally developed enough to deal with the novelty and the perceived potential threat will only build his insecurity. 

Focus on making him feel comfortable and in control, by letting him feel safe. Focus on bonding and relationship building so that he comes to look to you for guidance and reassurance when he is unsure. You want to project the belief that he is the best puppy in the world, and can do no wrong - this will build his self-confidence, and build his bond to you that he will want to try and please you. 

The more he gets to bark at other dogs, the more this will be his default behaviour. So shield him from other dogs, make yourself the center of his universe, and later on, he may just find other dogs way too boring to even bother with. 

With a pup like this, you may be better off doing puppy classes later than sooner. GSDs mature slowly: both physically and mentally. Much patience and consistency is required in bringing them up.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

8 week old puppies bark because they are scared, not because he is anti social or have other dog issues. You can't have had him long if he is only 8 weeks old, give him a chance to settle in with your family and get to know all of you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

KaiserAus said:


> 8 week old puppies bark because they are scared, not because he is anti social or have other dog issues. You can't have had him long if he is only 8 weeks old, give him a chance to settle in with your family and get to know all of you.


8 week old puppies should not be afraid of other dogs, as they should have their puppy license intact, and their breeder should have kept them safe from negative issues with other dogs. 

8 week old puppies could very well be barking at other dogs in an attempt to get to them to play with them. Some litters are noisier than others, and they will bark a rather high pitched bark in an attempt/frustration to get to the other dog to play with them. 

No, you shouldn't just allow the puppy to play with unknown dogs. I would just do a quick Eh-eh! and keep going. 

Yes, let the puppy relax in your home, with your people, and after a week or two, then take him to places that you frequently go, and sign him up for puppy-class, but make sure it is a puppy class that does not do puppy free-for-all -- very few classes are close enough in age and size/strength and very few instructors have a clue how to do that without allowing bullying and creating more problems.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

selzer said:


> 8 week old puppies should not be afraid of other dogs, as they should have their puppy license intact, and their breeder should have kept them safe from negative issues with other dogs.



I've seen plenty of 8 week old puppies barking at strange dogs because they are scared, not because they have had a negative experience but just simply because they are in a new situation, unsure of what they are supposed to be doing, unsure of the bigger dogs, unsure of their new owners... perhaps scared is the wrong word, but when you approach this barking puppy and he slinks low, tail down and tries to hide behind his owner scared is the word I would use... he doesn't mean he is going to turn out to have issues, it just means he needs some time to assess the situation, gather himself and realise all is ok.


Edited:
I realise my statement sounds like the only reason they bark is because they are scared... that is wrong and not what I meant. I should have said sometimes they bark because they are scared.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes, it is possible for them to be scared. But they shouldn't be scared. They should have had 8 weeks with their dam and litter in a secure situation where they were protected, and had lots of play time with their littermates. 

Yes, they can be tentative in new situations, which can be everything, not sure who is safe. But the whole reason 8 weeks is a good time for pups to leave the nest is because they are not yet at the stage where strangers are automatically scary, and they have their puppy license yet, so they are unlikely to have a really crappy experience with another dog. 

I may be all wet. It has been a long time since I have taken home an eight week old pup. Usually they cry for their dam and litter mates for a few nights. I don't remember them being terribly barky or scared of other dogs.


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## coloradoshep18 (Mar 30, 2017)

At what age would you recommend starting puppy classes?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Between 10 and 14 weeks. But only a puppy class that does NOT allow the puppy free-for-all. No puppy play time. There aren't but a few trainers who have the experience or knowledge to manage that properly, and those people generally choose not to allow it at all. Better to take your pup to a basic obeidence class with older pups/dogs where everyone is on lead.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

Or if a puppy class does have a "play period" just opt out. Go off to the side or leave the ares and do your own thing or go out and potty your puppy. Just give the instructor a heads up and make sure they are okay with it. If they aren't then find a different class.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

khay said:


> Are you trying to tell me i'm too gung-ho? :surprise: I just want to make sure he is well adjusted and can tag along to all our activities issue-free  He is my first shepherd although i have owned dogs my whole life. His reaction to other dogs makes me nervous.


yes !

here is a helpful thread http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html 

be casual with the dog in your home - normal routine -- not some time-line based agenda to accomplish meeting some nonsensical 100 strangers, or so many dogs, or this much noise and commotion --- just your normal home and normal self.

More damage can be done then benefits attained when too eager to get out there , as popular as the "movement" to do so is.

This is covered in the Behaviourists manual -- Applied Behavour and Training - Volume One 
Adaptation and Learning .

I don't like puppy classes . They seem to be preparatory for dog park future.
I don't like dog parks.

Not for this breed .

Not in general . 

I can tell you dog trainers love them ! They are a source of clients !!!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

wareenmc said:


> You can use anti barking device.


ohhh I hope not .

the dog is barking because it is excited and over stimulated . Always address the root cause not the symptom.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> I agree with dogma - he is barking because he is insecure and is trying to keep the scary other dogs at a distance.
> 
> Exposing him on a regular basis to scary situations when he is not mentally developed enough to deal with the novelty and the perceived potential threat will only build his insecurity.
> 
> ...


This bears repeating . Could not have said it better.

Continue doing what you are and that is what you will end up with .


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

carmspack said:


> ohhh I hope not .
> 
> the dog is barking because it is excited and over stimulated . Always address the root cause not the symptom.


This. So many people want a band aid for issues.


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## dPwns0304 (Sep 2, 2017)

I was actually just on another thread commenting about noise.

My little Bentley does not bark. IF he does, it's because he's losing a race down the hall or I'm teasing him with treats. Or, I ask him to do some tricks before I feed him. But they're rare. While I feel grateful my puppy is super quiet (has been since 8 weeks - he's now 4 months), I feel I should be the one worried about his lack of noise. Whiney as **** when excited by others petting him.


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## NerdicEclipse (Feb 20, 2017)

khay said:


> Are you trying to tell me i'm too gung-ho? :surprise: I just want to make sure he is well adjusted and can tag along to all our activities issue-free  He is my first shepherd although i have owned dogs my whole life. His reaction to other dogs makes me nervous.


A little bit. Like some others have said, focus on building his self esteem and confidence and give some more time for him to adapt to your home. Too much too fast causes them to actually go the other way. It makes them more nervous, more reactive and more on a hair trigger. Give him some fun challenges in your home/yard away from other animals. Go wild with praise when he succeeds. For that matter, never let him fail. Praise him like crazy, make every success a big event and his confidence will grow. Everything else falls into place little by little as they get older and learn more about the world around them. A confident pup socializes easier and feels less need to compensate by being the "aggressor". The work you do to build his confidence and advocate for him will give him more trust that you'll keep him safe and less desire to react to everything new or unfamiliar.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

dPwns0304 said:


> I was actually just on another thread commenting about noise.
> 
> My little Bentley does not bark. IF he does, it's because he's losing a race down the hall or I'm teasing him with treats. Or, I ask him to do some tricks before I feed him. But they're rare. While I feel grateful my puppy is super quiet (has been since 8 weeks - he's now 4 months), I feel I should be the one worried about his lack of noise. Whiney as **** when excited by others petting him.


I had a similar concern with my puppy. She didn't bark at anything at all. We even have 3 little dogs next door that bark at her all the time; she just goes to the fence and looks at them! When she got to be about 4 months without barking at all I started researching ways to teach her to bark...and in fact, that's how I found this forum. 

At any rate, shortly after she had turned 4 months the neighbor who lives behind us was out in his yard one night uncharacteristically late in the evening. I let Nyx out to do her business and she immediately started barking and advancing on the guy (through the fence). So that put my mind at ease. She doesn't bark because there is not much that she perceives to be a threat. She is now 8 months old, and still only barks some of the time when people knock on our door. The thing is, we mostly have visitors she knows, so again, no threat. She does bark at people walking in front of our house now sometimes. And she did bark at a guy the other day while out on a walk. He was avoiding eye contact and just seemed off...she picked up on that right away, and her hackles went up and she barked and growled enough that we changed sides of the street to walk around him. So I wouldn't worry too much about the quiet yet...enjoy it while it lasts!

They do say that you should teach your dog to bark on command though. So you could start working with him on that. Just find something that gets him to bark, Mark the behavior with a command and give him a treat...he should figure that out pretty quickly.


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## dPwns0304 (Sep 2, 2017)

tim_s_adams said:


> I had a similar concern with my puppy. She didn't bark at anything at all. We even have 3 little dogs next door that bark at her all the time; she just goes to the fence and looks at them! When she got to be about 4 months without barking at all I started researching ways to teach her to bark...and in fact, that's how I found this forum.
> 
> At any rate, shortly after she had turned 4 months the neighbor who lives behind us was out in his yard one night uncharacteristically late in the evening. I let Nyx out to do her business and she immediately started barking and advancing on the guy (through the fence). So that put my mind at ease. She doesn't bark because there is not much that she perceives to be a threat. She is now 8 months old, and still only barks some of the time when people knock on our door. The thing is, we mostly have visitors she knows, so again, no threat. She does bark at people walking in front of our house now sometimes. And she did bark at a guy the other day while out on a walk. He was avoiding eye contact and just seemed off...she picked up on that right away, and her hackles went up and she barked and growled enough that we changed sides of the street to walk around him. So I wouldn't worry too much about the quiet yet...enjoy it while it lasts!
> 
> They do say that you should teach your dog to bark on command though. So you could start working with him on that. Just find something that gets him to bark, Mark the behavior with a command and give him a treat...he should figure that out pretty quickly.


Yeah, I doubt my boy will bark to be protective. He's the guy at the dog park that runs away if he finds a threat and if he's getting caught up to, he starts screaming and crying on the ground looking terrified.

Barking on command, I will have to work on though. I've gotten close to doing so with treats, but having a non-barker bark is going to be difficult.


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## Tamra9991 (Jun 30, 2017)

I agree that pups often bark when scared, but that it's also not always the case! 

My pup has two types of barks- the scared one and the play one. He's pretty confident and brave, so it's rarely the scared bark. Only does it when the other dog has a ton of energy and towers over him.

Up until a couple weeks ago (when he hit 4 months), he would bark at almost every dog he saw. It was always extremely playful and he would want to run up to them. Yes, I took all reasonable precautions to make sure it was safe and the stranger dog was nice. Anyway, nothing would work to make him stop (I didn't try the shock collar because I just couldn't bring myself to use it) until I thought about his barking goals.

To me, it seemed that he was telling other dogs he REALLY wanted to run and play with them. He would bark as he approached. So whenever he barked towards a dog, I would turn the other way and walk away with him. He caught onto that pretty quick. Now, a couple weeks later, with a little further developed maturity, he rarely barks at other dogs and runs up to them with positive body language and no sound!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

At 4 months old your puppy shouldn't be in with the older and bigger dogs at the dog park! He will become fearful of other dogs that way, and will likely show aggression toward other dogs when he grows up. Take care of your pup and keep other dogs, and especially packs of dogs like you find in a dog park, away from him until he's emotionally and physically ready for that much stimulation!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Tamra9991 said:


> I agree that pups often bark when scared, but that it's also not always the case!
> 
> My pup has two types of barks- the scared one and the play one. He's pretty confident and brave, so it's rarely the scared bark. Only does it when the other dog has a ton of energy and towers over him.
> 
> ...


You really should learn to listen to your dog. At 4 months his barking was likely a fear reaction. Lots of puppies react that way toward other dogs when they're on a leash, because they don't trust you to keep them safe, and they can't get away if need be. But whether these dog encounters happened when your puppy was on or off leash, at 4 months of age a puppy is not yet developed enough to play with bigger dogs without getting hurt, unless you're just extremely lucky. It's just not worth the risk. 

On the e-collar, I was so glad to hear you didn't try using it. There isn't a valid reason to ever use an e-collar on a puppy that young! Training should be done in a quiet, distraction free location. And obedience training should be at an advanced level before an e-collar should even be considered (And again NEVER on a puppy that young)!

Both you and the OP here should search this forum and read all you can on the proper way to teach your puppy. There really is a lot of great information available; I would also recommend talking and working with a good trainer, as they can really help you begin to understand how these (or any) dogs think, and help show you how to go about further training on your own at home.

Good luck, and enjoy your puppies.


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## Tamra9991 (Jun 30, 2017)

tim_s_adams said:


> Tamra9991 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree that pups often bark when scared, but that it's also not always the case!
> ...


It's DEFINITELY not a fearful bark. He's simply a vocal dog. I've talked about it and had him observed by those who know more than me and they agree. He's extremely exciteable and not afraid to show it. He sometimes even does the bow as soon as he sees the dog. I do read the training section of the forum and adjust appropriately


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Opinions are like elbows, except that elbows don't change...thankfully opinions are not as static. I stand by my previously stated opinion though, that at 4 months your dog should not be subjected to older dogs in a dog park.

That being said, you are not looking for advice, so carry on. For some dogs things will work out in spite of anything and everything that happens to them, and for others it won't, only time will tell.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

dPwns0304 said:


> Yeah, I doubt my boy will bark to be protective. He's the guy at the dog park that runs away if he finds a threat and if he's getting caught up to, he starts screaming and crying on the ground looking terrified.
> 
> Barking on command, I will have to work on though. I've gotten close to doing so with treats, but having a non-barker bark is going to be difficult.


stop taking the dog to the dog park !

what is there to gain? The dog doesn't look terrified he IS terrified .


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## dPwns0304 (Sep 2, 2017)

carmspack said:


> dPwns0304 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I doubt my boy will bark to be protective. He's the guy at the dog park that runs away if he finds a threat and if he's getting caught up to, he starts screaming and crying on the ground looking terrified.
> ...


Well, he is only of certain dogs. Usually, he can get away just fine. But most others, he loves to play with. I don't want to take that from him. He looks so happy with some dogs he gets to play with.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Tamra9991 said:


> It's DEFINITELY not a fearful bark. He's simply a vocal dog. I've talked about it and had him observed by those who know more than me and they agree. He's extremely excitable and not afraid to show it. He sometimes even does the bow as soon as he sees the dog. I do read the training section of the forum and adjust appropriately


You may have found people that know more than you ... but they don't seem to know enough????

My goals are simple ... but my standards are high. When encountering unknown dogs, it's my dogs and dogs under my care to do ... "nothing." Do nothing dog is pretty easy to read. 

I doubt you've met anyone that has given that advice??? Reading "*is your dog freindly people and their dogs intent"* is simply a hassle neither me or my dogs need?? I like to keep it simple, so "we" avoid such encounters, works out fine.

But if you don't like that approach ... most likely consulting a "Pro" would be good advice. Because you know, having your dog bum rush unknown dogs with the "play bow thing" is not a good idea ... in my opinion.

In the meantime ... have a look here. "Why Dog Parks are a Bad idea and Three Dogs Who Should not be at a Dog Park. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

You have to make, "Good Choices," for your dog/puppy ... just saying.


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