# Tropisch German Shepherds



## Elite K9 (Nov 2, 2013)

Just about ready to send our deposit for our first SL puppy. $2500 for the puppy, which I am starting to wonder if it is too high? Although, I believe her dogs are amazing. Wondering if anyone has any information on this breeder that they would like to share, good, bad or ugly??? She is located in Florida and I am located in Canada. Can't really do a visit, so we have to use what we can get to make sure we are making the right decision.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

The breeding bitches they have listed have health clearances but no titles. I would not pay that amount for a puppy from an untitled dam.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The mother does not seem to be titled, but the sire is. This is a pretty normal price for show lines even out of untitled bitches.

I do not know this breeder and am not familiar enough with show lines (though a friend has really tried to teach me) so won't comment further.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If I had the money to pay that amount for a pup I would visit the breeder to make sure I knew what to expect and like what I saw. To me it seems very high. But I am not familiar with the show world.
What are your goals for this pup? Did you visit shows already to get an idea what you like?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

You can get a puppy from a well respected kennel out of titled dogs for same or less....

Most of the breeding stock they own do not seem to be titled.....and most have either FN hips or elbows...or both....

They also show some working line dogs and American Showline dogs....

It never fails to amaze me how so many people set themselves up, buy a bunch of dogs, and are breeding dogs with zero to marginal credentials, have no experience in the breed as far as proving their breeding stock but put up a website and are instantly "good breeders".... and charging high end prices!!!! I have sold pups out of titled proven producers (ie - females who have produced titled dogs, competitive dogs and numerous dogs with clear hips and elbows), bred to dogs who have won National events, competed at World level and never charged that much for an 8 week old puppy!!!

Lee


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I'll PM you.


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## VomHausPerdue (Nov 9, 2013)

I know Racheal and shes a darn good breeder goes above and beyond her dogs are nice and have great pedigrees well worth the price and if you don't want a pup from her then don't buy she is easy to get along with and hearts in the right place dogs may not be titled but they work


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

vhPerdue - on what criteria do you base this opinion? What accomplishments have dogs from this kennel attained? what history of previous litters can you cite??? What participation in what sports? Offering to sell puppies to every one on facebook and looking to buy 8 week old puppies for breeding stock as long as they are black on the same facebook page really does not show a concern for quality of breeding stock or concern of where puppies are sold....

Lee


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## Tropisch (Nov 9, 2013)

OK first of all.... I have NO American showline thank you. I happened to show some of my dogs yes. My female Fallon is not American showline. The female in question is daughter to VA2 Nino von Tronje, sorry but her lines alone, UNTITLED, are worth my price, especially when bred with my male V Nickor von GroB-ZUnder. ALSO I did not just buy "a bunch of dogs" really people? I have spent AT LEAST $75,000 on purchasing the dogs I have. And Lee just because you sell for less, good for you thats your choice. Titles DO NOT make the dog. I have seen plenty of "titled" dogs that are total CRAP! Just because I am not a huge kennel and some of YOU dont know who I am, does not make me a bad breeder, I am already well respected by previous puppy buyers and other people. Please do not trash someone or something you know nothing [email protected]!


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## Tropisch (Nov 9, 2013)

*Lee really??*

Just because some of my dogs are not titled does not mean CRAP and just because I use facebook and advertise on there does not mean I dont care. I have turned MANY people down that inquire about my pups. If they show interest they receive a puppy application and questions. Why is everyone so stuck on titles this titles that blah blah blah. really? As i stated before there are plenty of "titled" dogs that are CRAP and I am a newer GSD breeder. Doesnt mean I do not know what I am doing and does not mean my dogs are crap. I have forked out my own hard earned money to buy the best I can. I am so sick of people, whether they be jealous or just plain nasty, being quick to criticize others. I have been in the breeding world since I was born and my mother is a top breeder of Coton de Tulears. I delivered my first litter at 7 years old. I did research on GSDs and I thoroughly health test... you know you would think people that "care" about the breed would get off their high horses and care more about the health of the breed and not the freaking titles... ridiculous


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

then why is almost every female you have FN in hips??? and NOTHING titled....?? unless you bought it? Sorry....you are selling pups out of unproven dogs as per your own admission for the same or higher prices of litters that breeders who are out there showing and titling their dogs are selling....that is not "trashing" - that is FACT as you advertise it. Breeding lots of litters and selling to pet homes as a goal is not what I, or many here, consider to be a quality of a responsible breeder. What have you done other than import/buy pups then whelp and sell puppies??? And just because you got charged top notch prices by a savvy German breeder who saw an inexperienced American coming does not mean anything except - as you say - you are new to GSDs. LOL go buy a ton of last choice pups and females who were not good enough for the Germans to keep...remember PT Barnum!

Lee


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Thank you for posting Tropish

I am not a "be all end all dog has to have titles person," tho the majority of dogs I have / had were/are out of titled parents. Health and temperament are most important to me. Health Clearances are a must in my book, and tho I 'say" titles aren't the end all for me, If I'm paying that much money for a dog, it would have to be titled in something that I"m gearing towards.

IF your looking for a specific "thing", whether it's herding/schutzhund/agility/obedience, one should be going to those who are breeding for that purpose.

Anyhoo, it's up to a buyer what they are willing to pay and a breeder certainly has the right to charge whatever they feel like charging

I know showlines tend to be more expensive and it is what it is

Me, personally, I wouldn't pay 2500 for ANY 8 week old puppy unless it spit quarters

We all have our opinions, boils down to what a buyer is willing to pay I guess.

OK educate me, what are FN hips???


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## Tropisch (Nov 9, 2013)

I have one female with FN hips all other females are GOOD thanks!!! I cant stand "know it alls" like you. You must know everything about me and you are the best breeder out there!! Oh golly no I have crap dogs compared to you shame on me. I work ALL my dogs thanks and because I havent gone out and received a title again means nothing but something to people like you. You are a special people! Thanks for educating me on why i breed dogs and stay away from people!! good luck with your perfect breeding program and where you get all your incorrect info on me =)


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## Tropisch (Nov 9, 2013)

*Thanks Diane*

Thank you Diane. I try to help newer breeders and buyers that need help or have questions, I never try to bring them sown. You know why? Because im not a greedy jealous person like some. I am passionate about what I do and love what i do and thats all that matters and for puppy buyers thats what they should care about along with the health of the dogs. It irks me that people care more about titles than health =( sad actually


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Remember....

there is no breeder bashing allowed on this forum. If you can't say something nice, say it to the OP in a PM. GENERAL questions and concerns can clearly be brought up. Which HOPEFULLY will then be answered calmly and politely by all involved.

There is no reason for anyone to get defensive if they have a great breeding program they can back up.

And there is also NO REASON to attack any breeder because the rules don't allow it.

NOW... to the original poster....

PLEASE make sure you've spent the hours needed to read thru all the links on ----> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html and ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...nk-how-tell-good-breeder-website-bad-one.html

Because then when you do pick a breeder/puppy, and whether you pay $3000 or $25, you will know you did all you could to get the best puppy for your needs from the location you feel the most comfortable with.

:wub:


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## Tropisch (Nov 9, 2013)

*Diane*

FN hips are "fair" rated by OFA, passing but not high rated. I have one female that passed on FN all my other females and males are either A1 stamped by germany or Good rated by OFA


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I looked at a website - I posted my OPINION on what I saw on that website....lots of FN hips/elbows ? even I think. Nothing titled. I know pricing and what is sold. Making comparisons is not trashing. Responding to a nasty personal attack on me is not trashing.

This breed has enough problems without people who just run out buy a bunch of dogs with no knowledge of lines, and start pushing out litters to sell for top prices. There are 10 breeders like that to everyone who studies, works, trains and can explain why they are breeding what they are breeding - past the - well he was VA comment - and how they play both sides of that card....touting the connections as justification for prices and turning around and saying titles don't matter....to me, that is just hypocritical.

Lee


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

FN, or A2 hips, are fast normal (almost normal) and the second rating out of Germany (normal- a1, fast normal-a2. and NZ-a3, yes too lazy to spell out the word). 

You can not compare the German 'a' stamp with the OFA ratings. Too many variables and too many dogs that don't fit your "fair" comparison.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Tropisch said:


> I have one female with FN hips all other females are GOOD thanks!!! I cant stand "know it alls" like you. You must know everything about me and you are the best breeder out there!! Oh golly no I have crap dogs compared to you shame on me. I work ALL my dogs thanks and because I havent gone out and received a title again means nothing but something to people like you. You are a special people! Thanks for educating me on why i breed dogs and stay away from people!! good luck with your perfect breeding program and where you get all your incorrect info on me =)


TROPISCH, please don't over react and get on the attack or you won't be allowed to stay and calmly answer questions that many people may have. If you have nothing to hide, hide nothing. So if someone askes what an FN is, calmly explain and EDUCATE.

When I call and talk to a new breeder, I'm on the phone for over an hour usually asking tons of questions. And if that breeder started 'yelling' at me and attacking me for not just automatically believing they were the Top Breeder in the World' then I'd hang up and never come back.

You are new on this forum, we have TONS of breeders of all lines on this forum. If you are able to calm down and look around at other threads you'll see this is a valuable resource for all dog owners and GSD people in specific. And a valuable resource contact FOR breeders (though no advertising is allowed).

The BEST breeders who stay on the site and help educate, are what we consider 'responsible' breeders ( http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html ) are the ones that people also tend to go to when they are looking for their new puppy. Go figure.

Hope you are able to stay on the site. Continue to learn and improve your breeding program (the goal of ALL good breeders) and can help all the newbies that arrive on this site. 

:wub:


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I don't see this going anywhere productive. 

OP, just do your research. 

ADMIN Lisa


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