# Should i muzzle our zola ????????????



## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

hi everyone we are having a few issues with our zola mainly fear aggression..... she has started to get a bad name for herself where we live as when she is off lead she charges people but stop suddenly and barks at there feet, she would never bite and never has, people are getting the wrong impression of her. what is most frustrating is there dogs who do the same to us in there eyes is fine as they are not a gsd,,,,, i think this is wrong ......... poor zola is a big soft bear , do you think people wld think its better she was muzzled i myself dont like this, but im at my wits end im sick of people thinking she is some sort of monster please help as i need your thoughts on what you wld do thanks...... ursula zolas mam


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

solve the problem with her reputation and the one YOU may be getting in your neighbourhood "she has started to get a bad name for herself where we live as when she is off lead she charges people"
Keep her on lead . (which in the UK you are supposed to anyway with your selective anti-breed laws).

You can not guarantee that ," she would never bite". What if someone kicks out from being frightened or annoyed .

"hi everyone we are having a few issues with our zola mainly fear aggression..... " You need to control the dog and control how and what interactions she has with people so that her fear is not enhanced by negative reactions which confirm her need to be fearful .


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

How old is she?

What does your dog trainer recommend?

Is she also behaving that way in dog classes or just when around your neighborhood?

Have you been working on attention/focus/engagement type training? --> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...191183-top-training-expectations-puppies.html


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

In another thread about nose flicking and mouth slapping ----
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Harry and Lola*  
_Isn't licking their mouths and up to their nose a sign of anxiety and nervousness?_

you said "Our thought as well,so what is she nervous about ? Zola does that when we are getting ready to go for a walk AND mouth slaps..... "

Zola is in a lot of stress even getting ready to go for that walk . A muzzle is not going to help while you drag her out into a situation that creates stress upon stress . That is a lot of apprehension --- the dog may very well bite and that is what you need to prevent.

What is her fear .


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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

I would never let me dog off lead unsupervised or where the situation cannot be controlled.

Do you have a fence? I'm guessing no. Your dog should be leashed 100% of the time. 

What if it ran into the street and got hit by a car? And don't say that would never happen. Because I'm sure you never thought your *GSD* would never run after someone.

Fence your yard or leash your dog. Don't be that person.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

This sounds SUPER familiar to me.. because Titan has taken to doing the same exact thing. 

Are you sure it's fear for one thing? And what does she do when she barks at their feet.. does she do it aggressively? Does she stop on her own? Does she come back to you? Also I agree with carmspack.. you cannot be positive that she won't bite.. If you get a chance find my thread (on my phone or I'd find it for you) in the aggression forum called "was this aggression?....." I had the same thought with Titan and became really lax with his off leash "greeting" of others because "he's a big teddy bear, he's just excited! He'd never bite anyone!" And all those excuses we make for our babies.... it bit me in the butt (no pun intended  ) when he actually did go running up and bite someone.. didn't break skin and the man was so oddly cool with the whole situation thank God.. but it was an extreme eye opener. 

Put her on a leash.. If you want her to meet someone. Take her to them, make her sit and then allow the greeting. Since the incident, we haven't had a lot of off leash time in Public except very secluded areas.. and have not let Titan introduce himself, so to speak. Titan has been fantastic. Take control of her and I'm sure you'll see a change. It was a hard realization for me, a good one, to realize I am the one that encouraged this unintentionally. 

If it is indeed a fear issue, regardless, leash her, but someone else will definitely ha e good advice for fear aggression. 

I do wish you luck!

EDIT: did just want to add that this was not a fear issue for Titan.. just an extreme excitement.. so if it is a fear thing.. which i wrote this before other had chimed in.. then definitely focus on managing that and what I did may not work. I just wanted to make that clear. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

nikon22shooter said:


> I would never let me dog off lead unsupervised or where the situation cannot be controlled.
> 
> Do you have a fence? I'm guessing no. Your dog should be leashed 100% of the time.
> 
> ...


we have a secure garden 6ft fence all round zola is always on the lead until we get to our place of play the river park etc she is 23 month old and always comes bk when called


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## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

we had a trainer who we have just stopped seeing as his attitude was a disgrace zola is still bad on the lead she still trys to launch at people thats with me anyway ..yet my husband has found a way of distracting her by using a stick in wich she carries, she never bothers anyone until its my turn to take her out and everything changes i carnt even talk to people as she will show her teeth they even look at her


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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

Safzola said:


> we have a secure garden 6ft fence all round zola is always on the lead until we get to our place of play the river park etc she is 23 month old and always comes bk when called


If she *always* comes back when called, then your either not watching her when she charges people or she doesn't always come back when called. 

Either way, leash your dog before she bites someone and they have to put her down and file a lawsuit.

Its harsh, but its the truth. Accidents happen, what if the next person goes to run or kick your dog and her prey drive or defense kicks in and she bites? Are you ready to fight that battle (When she's already getting a name for herself).

Better safe than sorry


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Did you address any of the questions I put up? Were you able to view the videos?

What does your breeder say? Are the littermates behaving the same? Did they do a repeat breeding?


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## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Did you address any of the questions I put up? Were you able to view the videos?
> 
> What does your breeder say? Are the littermates behaving the same? Did they do a repeat breeding?


will take a luck at videos no as far as i no all her litter mates are doing great zola has always found it hard to get on with people even as a pup she had big problems most of them has been sorted as for a trainer we have been through a few and also classes but nothing has changed in her, its hard work at the moment on walks she is a big girl weighing in at 82 1bs im only little and still worry even when she is on the lead as she can pull me flat out if someone looks at her


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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

What kind of collar are you using? What are your correction methods?


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## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

nikon22shooter said:


> What kind of collar are you using? What are your correction methods?


we have tried many collars including a harness ..at the moment we are using part collar and part chain as for correction methods if she pulls we stop and walk the other way and so forth we make her sit when people pass we use a stick to distract her all these work with my husband but for some reason not with me she is on the alert all the time when im walking her


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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

Safzola said:


> we have tried many collars including a harness ..at the moment we are using part collar and part chain as for correction methods if she pulls we stop and walk the other way and so forth we make her sit when people pass we use a stick to distract her all these work with my husband but for some reason not with me she is on the alert all the time when im walking her


I would steer away from making her sit as other people or dogs approach you.

Unless I'm wrong, I think your marking your dog nervous by 'forcing' her into a sit, your probably feeling tense as the other person and dog approach and your dog is picking up on these mixed emotions.

I believe this was discussed the other day, someone wrote how it looks from the dogs perspective and it was a awesome and funny read but very true how the dog sees it. Let me see if I can dig it up.


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## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

nikon22shooter said:


> I would steer away from making her sit as other people or dogs approach you.
> 
> Unless I'm wrong, I think your marking your dog nervous by 'forcing' her into a sit, your probably feeling tense as the other person and dog approach and your dog is picking up on these mixed emotions.
> 
> I believe this was discussed the other day, someone wrote how it looks from the dogs perspective and it was a awesome and funny read but very true how the dog sees it. Let me see if I can dig it up.


thank you very much that would be great


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

" i carnt even talk to people as she will show her teeth they even look at her " that isn't a bite waiting to happen? 

so many things revealed -- "worry even when she is on the lead as she can pull me flat out if someone looks at her " and "has always found it hard to get on with people even as a pup she had big problems "

that pretty well says that the dog was nervy from birth . 

I don't believe the dog will recall anytime , try it on lead when she is charging ahead . If her recall is reliable she should immediately do a crisp about turn and head toward you. 

I would not have this dog run free . 

It seems that you have had a personal trainer "we had a trainer who we have just stopped seeing as his attitude was a disgrace"
who was dismissed, plus through a few others and some classes , with no resolve . Are you accepting what the trainers may be saying about the dog and following instructions. I ask because you enter the discussion saying the dog has fear aggression and then being defensive about how she wouldn't harm anyone and how people are misjudging her . If I had a dog charging at me trying to bite my feet , impede my forward mobility, snarl if I looked at it , I would make an instant impression and take action for my welfare .

There are many books dealing with fearful dogs . Behaviour Adjustment Training , Grisha Stewart is a good one Official Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT) site: humane help for aggression, frustration, and fear in dogs, horses, and other animals.

Maybe in the meantime your husband should take charge of the walks and training and see if he can produce a different result in re-socializing the dog , bearing in mind that you are probably fighting the genetics .

__________________


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

You're asking about a muzzle, but there's so many other problems that need to be fixed first that I don't think it's even worth considering. She can't run free, the way she's behaving. It sounds like it's a real chore for you to even walk her on a leash. So she's probably not getting as much exercise as she needs, which probably makes things worse...it's a vicious circle. Are there other trainers you could consult with? It's great that your husband has this under control, but that doesn't help you much - and I agree with Carmen that it would be best for all if he took charge for now.


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## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

Hello there all........,Ursula`s hubby here ,just thought I`d say a few things after you good people have taken the time to respond to Ursula`s thread.........

Ok ,so where do I start......first of all..yes Zola can be very vocal at some people,I say some, because there are times when it seems she just reacts to certain people.eg the other day Ursula was standing at the bus stop talking to our daughter , with Zola on lead at her side.......now during that 15min chat several people passed ,of which 75% got the "Zola bark " the other 25% got no react whats so ever.....could this have being due to Ursula`s energy or simply the fact that those 25% may not have looked at her ? ? ?

When I walk her I always make sure that I have her fav stick in my hand ( even before the lead is on ) she sits, waits and walks by my side great ( well maybe pulls alittle ) I can take her for a walk around the village,exercise her down our local riverside and walk her back home,without a single bark and yes thats with passing people and dogs along the way,,What I do is LOOK AROUND,, when I see anyone approaching I get her attention with the use of her stick,,if she is walking on lead her stick is in mouth ( to her nothing and no body matters ) she is happy...off lead I am always playing with her with the stick, when people or other dogs are in site ,I take it off her and just wait until they have passed....her attention is fixed on the stick and the people dont even get a glance,,once passed the stick is thrown,she returns drops and waits for the next throw..Happy days.........Now I feel I can never leave the house without that special stick.........
For some strange reason this doesn`t work for Ursula..I think it`s the looking out for people and getting Zola`s attention that Ursula finds hard,,but I feel this is an important part of her training....So how do you feel about the way I approach this ?? Can you give any more advice if any please...I myself do feel a lot better on walks now that I have found this way....


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## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> You're asking about a muzzle, but there's so many other problems that need to be fixed first that I don't think it's even worth considering. She can't run free, the way she's behaving. It sounds like it's a real chore for you to even walk her on a leash. So she's probably not getting as much exercise as she needs, which probably makes things worse...it's a vicious circle. Are there other trainers you could consult with? It's great that your husband has this under control, but that doesn't help you much - and I agree with Carmen that it would be best for all if he took charge for now.


Ha Tony here,great point......me taking charge hehe...but yes because we feel she now needs to lose weight,once a week I take her on a slow 2 mile jog,I do feel lately that she always wants to be by my side, once back in the house,as if all the walks and runs are making a stronger bond ......I know however this must be avoided due to the rest of the family............But yes I do feel I can control Zola a lot better then Ursula....


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

What you're doing with the stick is exactly what I did with my pup. Except that I used a tug, and he didn't get to possess it constantly. It was more of a reward for good behavior when the distractions around him were something I knew would set him off - in his case, other dogs got him going. 

I think working on her pulling is something you need to get under control too. She needs to understand that life isn't one big party where she can pull and bark and carry on as she wishes, lol. More training would help her - she needs it.


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## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> What you're doing with the stick is exactly what I did with my pup. Except that I used a tug, and he didn't get to possess it constantly. It was more of a reward for good behavior when the distractions around him were something I knew would set him off - in his case, other dogs got him going.
> 
> I think working on her pulling is something you need to get under control too. She needs to understand that life isn't one big party where she can pull and bark and carry on as she wishes, lol. More training would help her - she needs it.


Her pulling I think is her high energy,,for her walk back home is Perfect,,because she is tired after her play/walk


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I was going to say, a 2 mile jog every 7 days is nothing for her - can you make it every day instead, and maybe twice, lol? That could solve alot of problems right there, I'll bet.


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## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> I was going to say, a 2 mile jog every 7 days is nothing for her - can you make it every day instead, and maybe twice, lol? That could solve alot of problems right there, I'll bet.


Hahaha ,may solve her problems but may start some for me.........


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

How about walking, or even better a nice swim? That's how I exercise my pup in the summer and it's very good for them - not so hard on their joints. Or ours, lmao.


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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

I play fetch, I trained my dogs to drop the ball in my lap. It takes zero exercise from my part but after 15 minutes my dogs are pooped and I'm sippin on some iced tea  hahahaha


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

This is the guide I used in training my dog, He never got the chance to exhibit, the behaviour your dogie is showing. Him deciding that 25% of strangers are objectionable isn't good enough. It means he's picking and choosing and not you!

Leerburg | Who Pets Your Puppy or Dog

I did not do toys and stick myself precisely because of the reasons you stated...where is that freaking stick,toy, etc before I can go out the door! 


Every dog doesn't have to like people but most can be taught to ignore people. Telling him to sit is a stressor, just ignore and move on should be the goal. If I had to speak to someone, I'd step in front of my dog and shield him. After awhile he accepted this as routine. When I finally let someone pet him, I knew his demeanor, he was behind me waiting as he always was, his demeanor was the same as always..calmly behind me, I let the guy pet him..and Rocky could care less...job done!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

nikon22shooter said:


> I trained my dogs to drop the ball in my lap.


Lol, mine hands me his frisbee. It tires him out bigtime, while I'm just standing there. Zero effort is right, lol. How does this sound, do you have the space for it?


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## nikon22shooter (Dec 5, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> Lol, mine hands me his frisbee. It tires him out bigtime, while I'm just standing there. Zero effort is right, lol. How does this sound, do you have the space for it?


Same here. And if they drop it, I say "Ah uh! Get it" And they scoop it off the ground and try again haha.

Silly dogs


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## Safzola (Jan 14, 2013)

nikon22shooter said:


> Same here. And if they drop it, I say "Ah uh! Get it" And they scoop it off the ground and try again haha.
> 
> Silly dogs


ahh they are so funny..........


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## jessiecia5 (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi,my dog Jessie is very similar,when we are out and she barks at other dogs (she never does this off lead) I notice her change in stature then get out the treats and say "watch me" so she associates something yummy with seeing other dogs,after lots of repititions it does work but you have to do it every time. Also I make sure I'm the boss always,no free feeding,me walking through doorways first especially when starting the walk so we start the walk calmly,hope that is off some help!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

quote ( she barks at other dogs (she never does this off lead) ) 
so what does she do -- does she run up to them to visit


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## LoveSea (Aug 21, 2011)

She should not be allowed to be off lead & charge people. That is very scary!! This is my 4th GSD, I grew up around dobermans as well & if I were walking down the street & saw one charging at me I would be terrified! You never know what a dog will do. Keep her on a lead.

When I walk my dogs down the street, as recent as today, when I am on a sidewalk & see people approach us I always pull to the side to let the person pass because I can imagine how intimidating we must look coming at you - 2 dogs, 1 a large GSD & a medium mix. It is just respect for others. We have to face it - powerful breeds, GSD, Dobermans, Akitas, Pitbulls, Rottweilers, etc., will always have a reputation & it is very understandable! They are all protective breeds that can do serious damage if they please. If my docile mix ran up to you off leash, it would not be nearly as terrifying.

I do muzzle my GSD on walks. It is just so worth it & a safety measure. You really don't want a bite. Mine bit someone & it was the most upsetting thing ever. I still feel awful. In all my years of owning dogs, I have never had a single bite to anyone. This dog was abused & is fearful, so I learned from this. I will always muzzle him in public.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

The dog should not have to decide who is friend or foe that's your job! Pretty much as simple as that.


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