# Heart Murmur in our 8week pup



## Ribrustler (May 5, 2011)

My family and I had have just picked up our first GS pup. We have looked and prepared for a year for our first puppy. We picked her up on Saturday April 30th. Her name is Jinger and she weighs 19lbs already. She is a long coated B/T GSD. Part of our contract with the breeder is to have the pup checked within 48hrs of receiving her to make sure everything is ok. We took her to the vet on Monday and he said she had a heart murmur so we took her to another Vet and he confirmed that she has a heart murmur. He rated her murmur in -between 1-2 on a scale of 1-4 4 being the worst. Both Vets said to return her to the breeder and get a new pup. We are taking her to Michigan State University Hospital for animals which is the best in the state of Michigan for and ultrsound to confirm how bad the murmur is. Do you guys have links for information on Murmurs? If it is a hole in the heart can she live a normal (but shorter) life? 

We are at a crossroads because we are finacially not stable enough to spend massive amounts of money on vet care. I will follow up with another post about the breeder info in the right forum. WE ARE NOT HAPPY.


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Did your breeder not have the pups health checked before they went home??? :thinking:
If it is a light mumur it will, most likely, go away as the put gets older. Some times it dissappears by the time they are 5-6 months old. If it is a more serious one then it won't go away. My aunt had a poodle with a heart murmur and he lived to be 14 years old.


----------



## myshepharley (Feb 11, 2011)

My fox terrier just had a litter in March. I took them for their shots and worming around 6 weeks old. The largest pup had a grade 2 heart murmur. He was already sold. I informed the new owner of the situation and I had to take him back to vet 2 weeks later to get rechecked. Luckily it went away and he got a clean bill of health. I would ask the breeder if they were seen by a vet because if it's that bad, I don't think it just appeared. I understand you being angry and upset.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Since you are new to the forum, just a gentle reminder that we are not here to hash out arguments with a breeder or to discuss problems with a specific breeder (by name) We can offer advice, however concerning the puppy and options you have.

It is your call. Have you contacted the breeder? Why did you wait a week? I don't think that should matter since it is not worms or some parasite the pup could have contracted during a week at your house. 

I had a dog with a low grade murmur live to 15 but it is perfectly acceptible to return the puppy. I would not expect the breeder to pay for expensive diagnostic work, though unless it is at their request.


----------



## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I would recommend contacting the breeder first....
She/he may have had the puppies vet checked, and the vet just simply missed it, or overlooked it in the initial exam. Also it would depend on the age of the puppy when it was vet checked....sometimes, it is harder to detect on younger puppies....especially if it is milder.
It is understandable to be upset or disappointed, but it could be that the breeder just didn't know.....
*Always....speak to the breeder first*....


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Same thing happened with Stosh- the vet detected a slight murmur, said I should call the breeder and then bring him back in a week so he could listen again. The breeder was very concerned and said they would take him back, give a refund or a different pup from another litter. They even said that if Stosh died from a heart condition at a later age they would give us another pup. We decided to wait for the week, the vet was still not happy about the way it sounded but said he could outgrow it and it may never affect him. We kept a regular check on it and within a few months the murmur was no longer detectable, so I'm really glad I took my chances and kept him. One of vets never was able to hear it so it is possible that it could have been missed on the initial check. I'd call the breeder and see what they think and then you'll just have to decide if you still want to keep him.


----------



## Ribrustler (May 5, 2011)

Thank you for the advice. The breeder admitted that she did not have the pups vet checked because they were growing normally and active. I also assume responsibilty for being a novice and not requesting the papers on the day of the sale. 
The upsetting part is that the 2 vets that we went to said that it would be best to trade her back and get a new pup - which the breeder agreed to. When we asked the breeder what she would do with the pup she said she would put her down upon her own examination. This is why we are taking her for an ultrsound. We do not want another pup. Our children would know the difference if we brought home another pup. We are trying to get as much information as possible to make the decision. 
The pup seems healthy she weighs 20 pounds now and seems to play normally ( she really like to bite) If anything looked abnormal it would be that she doesnt run much - but we have only had her for 5 days. She runs up and down stairs good she has already tried to reach the kithcen counter for our food>< She is doing excellent with her crate training. she already sleeps for 7 hours with no accidents at night. So any thoughts please let me know.


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Truthfully, I was leaning towards returning Stosh but my husband didn't want to. With the murmur being a slight one, he wanted to take our chances and I'm glad we did. Like I said, by the time he was 5 mos old the murmur was no longer detected. You'll just have to wait for the results of the next exam and decide then if it's severe enough to affect her health and life span. There are lots of people- and dogs- walking around with heart murmurs leading normal active lives.


----------



## High5 (Apr 21, 2011)

We have a Boston terrier that was diagnosed with a slight murmur when he was a pup. He is 9 now and no problems what so ever. Ive read that alot of dogs have slight ones when they are pups but grow out of it as they age. Still a good idea to have the ultrasound done just to make sure. Maybe contact the breeder to see if they would cover the bill.


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

The ultrasound will view blood flow through the heart. It could be due to a hole, or a restricted valve or transposition of great vessels and probably other things I caN't think of right now. Some murmurs are benign and others are due to issues that can cause problems. I am glad you are getting it checked. I had a pup with a significant murmur. His valve was fixed in cath lab.


----------



## gsdmi (Apr 4, 2009)

I have fostered a couple of young dogs (first one was 9 weeks) with a heart murmur. Quite often they do outgrow it, but if not, it isn't a death sentence. I have also know adult dogs with a murmur.

I currently have a cat who is 14 -- he has a heart murmur, level 4 and takes a little heart pill every day to help the burden. He has absolutely no symptoms, isn't affecting anything that we have discovered. He had a ultrasound a few months ago, which did show his heart was working a little harder to pump the blood, that's when we put him on the little pill. He will have a follow-up ultrasound mid-summer.

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to adopt a pup with a murmur. Talk to you vet, find out what the treatment is (if any) if she doesn't outgrow it and go from there. It may be a matter of limiting extra-heavy exercise, a daily pill (ours isn't expensive at all) and monitoring her. Good luck!


----------



## lisgje (Sep 3, 2010)

On the other side of this, and not to be negative, but I had a puppy that my husband got for me when we first bought our house. She had a heart murmur. I decided to keep her, but she was never a healthy dog and had to be put to sleep at a year old due to on going and worsening health issues because the heart condition just got worse. so you should also consider that as well. I wish you the best in whatever you decide to do.


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

The affect the "murmur" has on the dog is entirely dependant on why the murmur is occuring. A heart murmur is not a diagnosis but rather a finding. It indicates abnormal blood flow for some reason. It is the reason that determines the severity of symptoms and the reqired treatment, if any.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Samba said:


> The affect the "murmur" has on the dog is entirely dependant on why the murmur is occuring. A heart murmur is not a diagnosis but rather a finding. It indicates abnormal blood flow for some reason. It is the reason that determines the severity of symptoms and the reqired treatment, if any.


Yep. I know of one pup with a heart problem that died at 8 weeks, meanwhile my husband's Cocker had a heart murmur and lived to be 13 (and was put down for other health issues - bad knees and chronic ear infections).

As for what to do....well it is up to you but please remember all pups are crapshoots. Not all breeders bring pups to a vet because honestly, sometimes at that age the vet's office is full of germs and things not worth the risk of exposure to if the breeder has experience doing the necessary vaccines and worming. I don't know who the breeder is so I'm not condemning or defending him/her, maybe they really are shady, but this can happen to anyone.


----------



## Heagler870 (Jun 27, 2009)

I really hope your new pup will be okay and it turns out to be a murmur she will outgrow. The first dog I ever owned as an adult, and my baby, had one. He had the worst one a dog could have and he was not so lucky. Broke my heart to fond out it was repairable by surgery but a 5,000 dollar surgery. I called the breeder and she told me to bring him back and she would refund me my money or give me another pup. I didn't get another puppy because that was my child, not something to be replaced. I honestly hope
That your girl will be okay


----------



## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I wish you the best in making this difficult decision. Definitely have the ultrasound to get the best information. I had a samoyed puppy with a heart murmur. At the time, my vet told me that taking a puppy with a murmur was opening myself up to a lot of heartache. Unfortunately he was right. As Lisgje said - sometimes there are other health issues. My dog had HD, an underdeveloped reproductive system, and a digestive disorder. One day she collapsed in the yard and I rushed her to the E-Vet. She was dead at the age of three. I have no regrets in adopting her. She was the sweetest dog in the world. But it was indeed very hard on the family and me.


----------



## Ribrustler (May 5, 2011)

Samba said:


> The affect the "murmur" has on the dog is entirely dependant on why the murmur is occuring. A heart murmur is not a diagnosis but rather a finding. It indicates abnormal blood flow for some reason. It is the reason that determines the severity of symptoms and the reqired treatment, if any.


This is what scares us the most. The second Vet thought she could have a hole in her heart - he explained that he was not 100% sure but he could hear it on both sides left and right and thinks it may be a hole in her heart.

On a better note I am going to post some pictures of her right now over in the new area section. she will bring a smile to your face!


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I guess you'll just have to decide if you want to live with the potential consequences. Such a tough call, I feel for you and your family- and of course your little girl. It's basically a crap shoot, but isn't all of life?


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

My first shepherd had a heart murmer as a puppy. She outgrew it and lived to a ripe old age doing search and rescue. 
Hopefully the ultrasound will give your a better insidht into what your options are.
good luck


----------



## Ribrustler (May 5, 2011)

Thank you for the support and feedback. We are really hoping she will be ok. Everyday goes by and you grow more and more attached. She seems to be doing fine other than she doesnt run alot - but we have only had her for 6 days and she is very big girl. I assume it is normal for her to be a little clumsy. I am going to post some pictures once my wife gets me the camera lol.


----------



## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

If it's a simple hole, you may be in luck as long as it's not too big. Those have a tendency to grow shut or can be surgically fixed, with a great deal of expense. I hope that your pup's diagnosis is simple and clear-cut so your decision will be as well. Good luck.


----------



## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

Tear jerker of a story. If the test comes back with bad news, I wonder if the breeder would give you a refund and let you keep the dog. At least this way, it has a 50/50 chance of leading a good life.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

My Cocker Spaniel has a Grade 2 heart murmur. He's 12 yrs old now and still runs like crazy. It has never slowed him down.

I would not NOT want another pup from that breeder since they don't sound very good.


----------



## Ribrustler (May 5, 2011)

Here are some pictures of our sweet Jinger. And thanks again to everybody for the kind words.


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

What a cute pup and lttle girl. I really hope it is not serious!


----------



## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

To Jinger's owner: *What has the breeder said regarding the puppy and it's diagnosis?* I'm not understanding something, somewhere......
Will she replace the puppy?
Are you or the breeder located in Illinois?


----------



## Ribrustler (May 5, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> To Jinger's owner: *What has the breeder said regarding the puppy and it's diagnosis?* I'm not understanding something, somewhere......
> Will she replace the puppy?
> Are you or the breeder located in Illinois?


The breeder said she will replace the pup but no cash refund. It says in our contract absolutely no cash refunds only a different pup. But it also says in our contract on behalf of the sellers agreement that she would have the pup vet checked before sale and we would get a healthy pup. She admitted to not having the pup checked. I am also at fault here for not demanding the vet papers on the day of sale. I will admit this is our first pup purchase and we are novices. The breeder will not pay for any diagnostic work.
We are located in Michigan. We bought the pup in Michigan. I do not want to call the breeder by name on a forum as it has been instructed by one of the moderators to not do so. I will say that the breeder's background checked out and they have a good reputation.


----------



## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I understand now....thanks for explanation.


----------

