# Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT)



## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Does anyone have any experience with this training method? I'm especially interested in hearing about personal successes or failures using it.

Thanks!

Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT) | Official site for BAT: dog-friendly training for reactivity (aggression, fear, frustration) by Grisha Stewart, MA


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

I have a friend who uses BAT and she loaned me the BAT DVDs. She has used the training for quite a while. My friend has had great success with BAT. When I met her I had just started with a private trainer and we were introduced by the trainer because we both had Shepherds with the same issue so we became training partners. Her dog is now being used as the calm, non-reactive training dog. She is very pleased with the results of the training.

I am still working with Willow but she is SO much better with her reactivity. I actually started our training with Look at That but have since kind of combined the Look at That with the BAT depending on the situation we happen upon and we are doing great. Hope this helps.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Yes, thank you, it does. Do you happen to know how reactive her dog was when she started? Shasta really gets all in a frenzy.


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

Well, when I met her she had been working with Ava for a long time so I never saw Ava in full reactive mode but Ava was actually reactive to people and dogs where Willow is reactive to only dogs so she had to work twice as hard. From our conversations I gather that she got pretty intense. 

Also, one thing I didn't say earlier about BAT is that I like that it uses the functional reward and is not totally reliant on food/treats. The reward is distance or moving away from whatever causes the reaction. When I am out on walks with Willow I watch her for the moment she sees something that might have set her off in the past. When she perks up, I stop immediately. I allow her to take a good look and then when she looks back at me we retreat a good 4 or 5 steps so she is walking away from it, praise her, talk to her, whatever; maybe an occassional food treat. At this point we are usually able then to continue on by whatever it is and she is pretty good. If I don't think she can get by whatever it is then we just turn around and walk the other way. If I think she can get by it or I want to test her we keep walking forward and then back, forward and then back. I am sure my neighbors think I am crazy sometimes. Ha.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I am a little iffy on the functional reward part. I think Shasta is a frustrated greeter so the reward is to move forward for good behavior but I'm not sure exactly how that works. I could bite the bullet and take the class but it is super expensive and not that conveniently located. I wonder if the DVDs do a good job of covering this particular topic.


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

I would definitely recommend the DVDs, there were training 2 DVDs and 1 CD that contained all the PPT data and a couple PDFs that she went over in the DVDs so you can print them out. I didn't take a class and I think I got a good understanding of the training. 
She does show a training exercise with two dogs walking towards each other and passing by so that might be what you are looking for. One DVD goes through all the training methods and then she shows an actual training exercise using her students and then at the end she shows video of her with her own dog. I thinks she does a good job of showing her training and progress with her own dog who was afraid of children.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

The DVDs are definitely a lot less expensive than the class! Plus, the class would include dog-aggressive dogs and I'm not sure I want to put Shasta in that environment.

Thanks for all the information, I really appreciate it!


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i think the BAT training is a more positive training method than the CAT method. i tried the CAT training under professional guidence and it made my dog worse, to me it was like a rehearsal effect of letting him react..........i could have repeated the CAT steps a million times and it would not have been an effective method for us.........


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I have and still use BAT with my 2 older dogs, I think it helped a lot. My husband was even impressed when we had a repair man working in the house and the 2 dogs were quiet as church mice, even when the guy was talking. They were in an adjoining room no door and the guy was in plain sight. My one dog is a scardy dog & my female plays along with his nonsense. Fortunately they are food motavated. 
I think its a great focus exercise. 
I need to try it on Lakota for deer & squirrels.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

paulag1955 said:


> Plus, the class would include dog-aggressive dogs and I'm not sure I want to put Shasta in that environment.


I love the idea of BAT, but I've never tried it before. I do have a friend in the area that trains with Grisha - jealous!

I just wanted to comment on classes for reactive dogs though. We took one with Cassidy. This was 10 years ago, way before the existence of BAT, but reactive classes are VERY controlled. The idea is to keep the dogs under threshold so they don't react, so you needn't worry about that.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks, everyone, for your input.

Debbie Brown, what is CAT?

Debbie, the class we would attend wouldn't be taught by Grisha but it would be at her school. So you think it would be worth the dollar investment?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

paulag1955 said:


> Debbie, the class we would attend wouldn't be taught by Grisha but it would be at her school. So you think it would be worth the dollar investment?


If I were in the area, I'd definitely take it, even if it weren't taught by Grisha - it's her school, so it would be the program that she developed, taught by someone that I'm sure she trained and is overseeing. 

The best thing about a class is that in order to work on the reactivity you NEED other dogs. Unless you know people with neutral, non-reactive "bait" dogs who are willing to help you train (and not just one, you'd need a variety, ideally) you're stuck trying to find places where you have a reasonable expectation of running into other dogs but also have good sight lines in all directions and a couple of escape routes if you need to bail out of there. Just walking in a neighborhood you can do things like cross the street, use parked cars to block the view of another dog, retreating down side streets or long driveways to get some distance, etc., but public places can be unpredictable. In class you're going to have very carefully set up situations that are completely controlled.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

LOL, I wish crossing a street would add enough distance to keep Shasta under threshold!

Finding other dogs to work with is my biggest stumbling block. I just wish the class weren't so darn expensive.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

CAT is and exercise where you let your dog react to the stimuli being dog or person..........and don't do or say anything until they stop reacting, when they stop reacting you reward them, some use click and reward some use just food......and the stimuli then goes away......teaching them that barking, lunging, etc will not make the bad thing go away, and rewarding them for stopping the aggressive behavior and then the stimuli will go away once they quiet down...... it can work for some all depending on the temperment and the extent of the issues, but in my case it made things worse........some dogs are so intimidated in the situation they never get the fact that the bad thing goes away when they quiet down............to stressful for them............so, you have to be careful with CAT and know exactly what you are working with.........


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## King&Skylar (Jun 3, 2010)

This is basically what I did with Skylar, except I just said I stayed under her threshold and slowly worked closer lol. But yeah, this worked amazingly well for her, I would totally do this if I ever end up with another fear reactive dog and definitely recommend it. I'm glad you posted this because I find it hard to explain what I did to people that ask me for help and had no idea this was an actual training method.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

A long time ago my trainer told me on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being highly excited, if the dog's excitement level is at a 10, it's harder to bring it back down to a lower level than say if the dog was at a low level to begin with.
With my dogs it definately is true. What I did was set up my treats, they knew the treats were on the counter. Repair man came to the house, bark bark, I yell out "yeah cookie time", then all they could think about was the treats on the counter.
Paula, I know its hard to find dogs to help, what about using the parking lot of your training school or a pet store where people bring thier pets, your dog will see other dogs come & go no need for interaction. Thats what someone I know was doing with her dog who became reactive when he was a baby. Unfortunately I saw her about a month ago when I was leaving class. As I approached her she stopped me and warned he was acting up again. So sad to say she still has an issue with his reactiveness. He had played with Lakota when they were both pups, he didn't bark at her but we didn't push it any further.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Debbiebrown, thank you. I actually think that might work with Shasta. She does seem to settle down if a triggering stimuli doesn't go away.

King&Skylar, thanks for sharing your experience.

Carolyn, I've thought about the parking lot at PetSmart but I worry because I'm not in control of the environment there.


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