# 4ft fence acceptable?



## wrenny (Sep 20, 2007)

We have a 4ft fence in our yard. Right now our GSD is 9 weeks old.

If properly trained, execised, etc will he still be hopping over it?

I really don't have money to get a bigger one but I don't want to worry about him hurdling it in the future.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Some dogs do, others don't.

What I've found, is that young dogs left alone and unattended in the yard for more than a short time are more likely to jump the fence. They get bored. Have no guidance. What's on the other side of the fence may seem much more attractive for the moment, and they CAN get over 4'. And some dogs are diggers, so instead of going over, they have fun digging under and can escape that way.

But if we are out with the dogs for the first year or so, and they just get into the mental habit of not going over the fence, then it does seem to then be more of a barrier that they don't test. Once the first years of 'puppy' with the testing new things is over, they then seem to respect things like a fence much easier.


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## wrenny (Sep 20, 2007)

My goal is to be able to leave him outside in the future when he is old enough when I go places for a few hours.

I'll probably do some training stuff involving the fence and when we are in the yard to teach him not to go near it, hoping that will help.


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## Keeyah (Apr 24, 2007)

When we had a 4 foot fence Diesel was never outside alone. Now the fence is higher he is able to spend more time outside. 

He never took any notice of the fence and isn't a jumper but one time and one time only he went after a cat and scrambled over the fence. I just wouldn't take the chance.


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## LandosMom (Nov 30, 2005)

your GSD will be able to jump a 4ft fence depending what is on the other side - cat, squirrel, small snack-like kind of dog.

if he is always attended out there it is probably not a problem. i personally would not leave him alone outside with a 4ft fence when i am not at home.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I can't tell you how impressed I am that you are thinking of this now, before you have a problem! Good for you!
My own policy is to never have my dogs out in the yard if nobody is home to watch them. I have a 6 foot wooden privacy fence around my back yard, and a 4.5 foot chain link fence that separates the dog side of the yard from the human side of the yard. It's not that someone has to be out with them, but there does need to be an adult home and actively keeping an eye on them in order for them to be out.
To be honest, I wouldn't recommend your dog be out in the yard with you gone regardless of the fence size. You will never know what he'll do when faced with a new, perhaps exciting activity going on outside his fence. If you are always home when he is out, you can step in and bring him in before he gets so stimulated that he goes over the fence (or under it). Or before your neighbors call animal control because he spends the whole time you're gone barking at the dog that lives two blocks over.
Keeping him well exercised by getting out with him and playing fetch or some other human directed game daily will help take care of his exercise needs (along with a couple of walks) and crating him in the house while you are gone will keep him and your home safe.
It just takes one incident to break your heart and kill your dog! 
Sheilah in Idaho


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## wrenny (Sep 20, 2007)

I was thinking of making the yard bigger and extending the fence but if I never leave him outside for a period of time unsupervised, is it worth it?

I live in a city type area. Houses ontop of houses. Luckily I live on a corner lot which gives me a full lot of just grass which is huge for a city but to all you country folks, its not big at all. Half of that area right now is fenced in.

If I can teach him to play fetch in the yard, without a fence and not run off, I would be happy. 

One little step at a time I guess.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I think it's great that you're thinking of this now as well.

A four foot fence is more than enough if you're outside with your dog, playing fetch, doing some training, or just hanging out in the yard with your dog Some things you may want to teach him if you're worried about him eventually hopping this fence is a good solid recall and a command to stop him dead in his tracks, such as an emergency "DOWN" command.

Personally, I think that you should never leave your dog outside unsupervised, whether you have a four foot fence or a six foot fence - especially if you live in a city. When dogs are left outside unsupervised, they become an easy target for people who don't like dogs or kids who just want to tease them. Your dog might get harassed by having rocks or sticks thrown at him, for example. And dogs that are left alone can't be corrected if they bark at everyone passing by and become a nuisance to the neighbors, too. Those are some things I'd consider.


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## LUV_GSDs (Oct 22, 2006)

I believe that the dogs should never be left outside unattended too. I doggie sat for two dogs that climbed over a 6' fence and butted the top off the enclosure with their heads.


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## Shandril2 (Nov 26, 2003)

It depends on the dog.
My dog is in a 5 foot privacy fence when we're outside with him.
My fiance was standing right next to him when he sailed, easily, over it to chase cats.

Other times he shows no interest in what's on the other side.


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## CurlySu717 (Oct 5, 2007)

I personally wouldn't risk leaving a dog outside when I'm not at home. The dog could take off, someone could take your dog, another dog could jump your fence to "play" with your dog, a random storm could hit...maybe I'm just paranoid. 

Are you worried about him destroying the house when you're not home? Crate training is a good way to prevent that. I also have a friend who uses her second bathroom as a crate when she's not at home. Not much to destroy in the bathroom! We used our laundry room for our GSD, but my Dad had to change the knob. Dixie figured out how to open the lever-type French knob (!!), but she couldn't open the regular round ones.


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## kaslkaos (Jan 15, 2003)

I have a 4' fence, and I do regret it. If you have a choice, get something higher. Since you don't have a choice, and neither do I, just keep a close watch. Don't allow experiments in jumping and climbing. My dogs have never ever jumped the fence or come close to doing so. However, I never leave them out when I'm not around. I bring them in the minute I hear a bark. Dynamo (her again, of course), is forbidden to stand on two legs at the fence as I'm afraid she'll think of climbing. If you get lots of snow in winter, you lose height in the snowdrifts. However, even when they could have hopped over the fence, they didn't try, they didn't know better, and by being on duty when they are out, I can make sure they don't learn how low the fence really is.


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## alaman (May 3, 2006)

Depends upon the dog. My new 18 month old female jumped my new 5' fence to come to me. I will be putting up an electric wire on top very soon. My others never even thought of going over my old 4' fence.


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## Ursa Lunar (Jul 11, 2003)

Your dog may be fine with a 4' fence.
Your dog may never climb the fence or dig under it.

However;
another dog could jump into the area
a scumball looking for a bait dog may steal yours for that purpose
a neighbor that wants all dogs in the neighborhood to stop barking may throw poisoned meat in there
kids may tease your dog or throw things at him
an oil man/meter reader may not close the fence behind him

These are simply not risks worth taking, even for a 1/2 hour jaunt to the grocery store.

If your concern is the dog being unattended in the house then crate train for the time you're away.


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## Romance (Apr 16, 2007)

4 foot fence is too short.


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## KodisMom (Sep 13, 2000)

2 sides of my yard have 4 foot fences (they were there when we moved in). The gate is 5 feet and the other side is 6 feet (we put that one in since there wasn't a fence on that side). We can't afford to put new fencing in either. We planted grape vines around the perimeter of the 4 foot fence, so there is a visual barrier on the fence too. Also, there are shrubs and flowers along the fence line, so the dogs have been taught to "keep out of the garden". So far, my dogs have never challenged it.

I was watching a leerburg video the other day, and he addressed this problem. He said that one way to do it was to add an electrical fence wire (underground fence) to the top of the fence with the collar. That way they get "warned" if they get too near the fence, and it teaches them to stay away.


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## Shandril2 (Nov 26, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: KodisMom
> 
> I was watching a leerburg video the other day, and he addressed this problem. He said that one way to do it was to add an electrical fence wire (underground fence) to the top of the fence with the collar. That way they get "warned" if they get too near the fence, and it teaches them to stay away.


We were advised by a few people to try this method also ....
any other thoughts about this?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Over the years, I've had two fence jumpers. Ringer jumped a 4' fence to visit the "girl next door" (she was a spayed GSD, he was neutered, but it was still love







). I put up an electric fence about 24" inside the 4' fence and that stopped him. 

If I was outside the 4' fence, Niki would clear it like it wasn't there. He also went over the 6' dog pen like Superman. He NEVER went over except to be by my side.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

My entire yard is surrounded by 4' fencing and I see no problem with it if you do training as well as supervise. There have been times I can see his ears perk up when he sees a cat or dog go by...I used these times for training by telling him "leave it" followed by treats and lots of praise when I see him turn it off. I too agree with most here when they say your dog should not be left outside unsupervised or for extended periods. I am not outside with my dog every second but am always checking on him and listening. His bark tells me there is something of interest and I immediately respond. So far he has never made an attempt to jump or dig but he has not had much of an opportunity to do so.
The one thing that can cause a big problem depending on where you live is snow which was mentioned earlier. It was in the winter that we learned this by watching Floyd make a short jump over the fence to protect our neighbours house and yard from the mailman. It was a few hours of hubby shovelling to correct that problem and we are now careful of where he blows the snow.

I see no problem with a 4' fence if training and supervision is always there. Not everyone can afford to re-fence a large yard especially if there are suitable options.

Until we added our GSD to our family we always owned Siberian Huskies, now that is a different story. All 4 of my Sibe's could clear a 6' fence from a sit as well as dig a tunnel to China just to go exploring and of course run...run...run... No fence was adequate for them so we purchased a panel dog run (30' X 60') in order to make custom shape and size, chicken wire on top and chain link fencing under the gravel all wired to the panels. This dog run was attached to a wooden shed with raised dog houses. In the end they removed the wooden walls and siding to escape lol. Huge investment but for dogs that hated to be inside in the winter due to heavy winter coats they needed a secure, safe and sizable structure.

Ok I am done blabbering, I guess it depends on the owner and the dog.

Cathy


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## jumbo99 (Jul 26, 2007)

Beware: cheesy Gate Latches vs Smart GSDs

We have a 6 foot wooden privacy fence but our adopted/rescued 2.5 yr old can pop the traditional fence gate latch (found on 99% of fences) in seconds. He hits the top of the gate with one paw and the latch with the other, when the gate springs back from his weight the latch is open just long enough that the "pin" is able to pop out,, then he simply pulls the gate open. 

Bought a very large deadbolt made for fences and that solves the problem. It's sliding pin is about the size of an adult thumb and I think it was around 7 bucks. 

Would NEVER leave him on his own outside for more than a minute or two though, he's crafty and I'd miss him too much if something happened to him.


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## wrenny (Sep 20, 2007)

I definately don't have the money to make the fence bigger.

I won't leave him outside for extended periods of time. It's more of when its raining or really cold outside, I want to let him go outside and potty on his own then come in. Of course I'll be standing at the door anyways watching.

Thanks for the help!


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## towtrip (Dec 12, 2003)

wrenny,

I want to add my compliments to you for considering this very important issue before it becomes a problem.

I agree that the risks of leaving your dog unattended outside are simply not worth it. 

You can certainly work with your dog to train him to respect the fence and, without an opportunity to be bored if left for hours alone in the yard, he will most likely be fine.

You can make your fence as high as the sky, but a smart, bored, determined German shepherd will be able to get out, anyway. Your saving grace is training, exercise and supervision. We've seen dogs dig under, climb over, bite through and defeat the gate latches of all kinds of fences. So, I'd focus more on the the dog and less on the fence (so long as it is reasonably secure) right now.


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## rubytue (Aug 30, 2007)

This thread has been great. We are about to fence our yard so that Zoe can have a little more freedom (she is on a trolly or leashed now when outside with us - except for some playtime in the morning when DH can take her off leash for some games - by evening there are too many distractions). We have been thinking of a 4 to 4.5 foot fence - mostly b/c of cost, but also b/c I don't want a 500 foot privacy fence. I was shocked at the cost of fencing! But we are thinking the shoter fence with invisble-type fencing run around the top.

However, DH and I are not in agreement on the use of a fenced yard. He wants to leave her outside while we are at work (or have a doggie door so she can go in and out), and I am ademently against that. *sigh* At least for now, the main purpose will be so she can be outside while DH is doing remodeling inside. It safer for her to be out there than in with power tool, nails, no subflooring, etc.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Morgan easily jumped the 5 foot fence into the next yard (and cleared a 2 foot wide hedge on my side), while I was standing right there. Go figure what an athletic, determined GSD will do.

That said, I never leave her outside for more than a few minutes unattended and NEVER when I'm not home. And she knows not to open the side door or she's in BIG-GO TO THE BASEMENT and think about what you did trouble.


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

No, definitely not. We have a 6 ft fence.


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## Yvette (Jan 29, 2001)

DaKota respects fencing no matter what type it is. Last summer We visited my aunt at her camp ground. After a very long hike, DaKota was a little tired. I was extremely tired & wanted to visit with my Aunt some. I put DaKota in a chicken wired make shift dog kennel, my Dad built. We were a few feet away. She didn't even try to get out. I put her in a 4' ft kennel at work once. She stayed well. I think it has to do with teaching her to "stay in the kennel" that worked for us. She will not even go near an electric fence. 
She sat on one during a sheep herding class!


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## lebowski (Jul 17, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: rubytueThis thread has been great. We are about to fence our yard so that Zoe can have a little more freedom (she is on a trolly or leashed now when outside with us - except for some playtime in the morning when DH can take her off leash for some games - by evening there are too many distractions). We have been thinking of a 4 to 4.5 foot fence - mostly b/c of cost, but also b/c I don't want a 500 foot privacy fence. I was shocked at the cost of fencing! But we are thinking the shoter fence with invisble-type fencing run around the top.
> 
> However, DH and I are not in agreement on the use of a fenced yard. He wants to leave her outside while we are at work (or have a doggie door so she can go in and out), and I am ademently against that. *sigh* At least for now, the main purpose will be so she can be outside while DH is doing remodeling inside. It safer for her to be out there than in with power tool, nails, no subflooring, etc.


IMO, if you're putting in the fence now a 6 ft fence is the _obvious_ choice. The OP already has a 4.5 ft fence so the decision is different for her, but if you're starting with nothing go with the 6ft. That's a lot better than spending the money on a 4 or 4.5ft then realizing after the fact that it isn't adequate.

Second, as others have said leaving the dog out unsupervised all day is a bad idea. Leave her crated indoors, and she'll be perfectly safe, much safer than she would be if left outside (esp with a 4 ft fence!!!) all day. GSDs when left outside will find stuff to do, like jump a fence, dig under a fence, or just dig holes in your lawn and/or dig up your landscaping. I have a 6ft fence and I never leave Xindra outside unsupervised for more than about 10 minutes at a time, and even then I caught her digging up some sod yesterday morning!


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## rubytue (Aug 30, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: lebowski
> Second, as others have said leaving the dog out unsupervised all day is a bad idea. Leave her crated indoors, and she'll be perfectly safe, much safer than she would be if left outside (esp with a 4 ft fence!!!) all day. GSDs when left outside will find stuff to do, like jump a fence, dig under a fence, or just dig holes in your lawn and/or dig up your landscaping. I have a 6ft fence and I never leave Xindra outside unsupervised for more than about 10 minutes at a time, and even then I caught her digging up some sod yesterday morning!


I clearly said I was ademantly against the idea of leaving her outside all day. You are preaching to the choir here.









Can someone tell me how to come up with 500 feet of 6' dog-proof fence for the $3k we have to spend?


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

IMO, if you're putting in the fence now a 6 ft fence is the _obvious_ choice. The OP already has a 4.5 ft fence so the decision is different for her, but if you're starting with nothing go with the 6ft. That's a lot better than spending the money on a 4 or 4.5ft then realizing after the fact that it isn't adequate.

Second, as others have said leaving the dog out unsupervised all day is a bad idea. Leave her crated indoors, and she'll be perfectly safe, much safer than she would be if left outside (esp with a 4 ft fence!!!) all day. GSDs when left outside will find stuff to do, like jump a fence, dig under a fence, or just dig holes in your lawn and/or dig up your landscaping. I have a 6ft fence and I never leave Xindra outside unsupervised for more than about 10 minutes at a time, and even then I caught her digging up some sod yesterday morning! [/quote]


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

I don't know where you are located but google discount fence+your state and maybe you can come up with something like this. 

http://www.servicemagic.com/task.Maryland.Chain-Link-Fence-Install.40052.html


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## rubytue (Aug 30, 2007)

After much discussion on the home front, we will have a 5 foot rail fence lined with wire mesh. 6' just is not doable. :\ The lumber will be delivered on Tuesday, and hopefully, by next weekend, she will be off her run







Still working with DH on the supervision issue. As it stands, she is rarely home alone anyway (and then she is left in the kitchen). Hopefully, by the time DH goes back to work, I'll have him convinced its a bad idea.


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## Shugmort (Aug 8, 2006)

I created a large outside pen for my dog and price drove me to a 4 ft height. I had it installed when my male was a year old, he's now 5 and has never tried to jump it. I also have a 15 month old female and she too has never jumped it although she could, easily. I leave them there even when I'm gone for the day, when the weather permits, and have never had a problem. It helps that they have each other for company and they have lots of toys, a house and a small pool and never get bored. I do live in a rural area so don't have the concerns of living in a city but with proper training 4 ft worked for me. Your 5 ft. should work as long as you supervise until they're used to it.


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## Bluewolf (Apr 20, 2006)

Wrenny - I had a 4 foot fence for many years and my dogs did not try to scale it. I found that having shrubbery growing in front of or on the fence itself helped alot because it blocked their view and made them less likely to fixate on what was on the other side. Try planting some hostas, wild grass or other bushy shrubbery at the base of the fence. Honeysuckle and ivy will cover your fence in short order if it's chain link.


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## Powell (Oct 13, 2006)

My friend has 73 wolfdogs in her rescue. 12 foot fencing with cattle panel and a 4 dig guard minimum. They don't get out. 

Powell


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## Colorado (Nov 25, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Shandril2
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: KodisMom
> ...


I hesitate to bring up invisible fences again, as I was nearly run out of this here virtual town for bringing them up previously. But, that said, I think this is a perfect case for an invisible fence. As the only means of containment, there are many issues. As a back up to a physical fence, they are a great solution IMO.

If you place the wire on the top of your fence, your dog(s) could get close to the bottom, but not to the bottom to dig out. If you place the wire near the bottom of the fence they won't even be able to get close the fence. This might be a good solution if you have flower gardens or something near the base.

Of course, this doesn't change any of the issues about leaving your dog out unwatched all day. If you have concerns about wild animals, people, etc. messing with your dog(s) while you are away, then that is a separate matter.

If you go with an invisible fence, don't buy the cheap ones from Petsmart, etc. Invisible Fence Co. or some other professional install is the way to go.

Hope that helps.


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## thaliasmom (May 3, 2007)

My 8 month old regularly reaches the top of our 6-foot fence when she's "chasing" squirrels. I say "chasing" because she's only scaring them, not after a snack. She is a showline bred dog- not even "bred" to jump high, or be too serious about pursuit. I have no doubt that in another few months she'll be able to clear it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Right now we have a foot of snow on the ground, when it hardens that will make my fence 3 ft. I know that Kacie will clear it (


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

I think as long as you are supervising and have a really good recall the height isn't important. It's more the respect of the boundaries. We have a 6ft one that is looking incredibly (in my eyes) decrepit. It's not the worst fence in the neighbourhood, but it's far from the greatest! I seriously think I'm going to go with a 4ft chainlink across the back and on the one side we have to replace with privacy fencing just around the patio. Infact the yard will no longer when I'm done be totally enclosed. Where the fence seperates the driveway from the patio is going and instead concrete planters are going there with an iron arbour gate. My neighbours never use their backyard so I may even forgo the privacy fencing.
If I thought for a minute either of my little turkeys wouldn't be respectful of their boundaries or the illusion of a fence, they'd be on long leads in their own yard. I don't put my faith in any containment system, we had a couple hounds growing up who were excellent escape artists...... The only thing I trust is a 6ft lead with me attached so even if the lead breaks I can fall of them







Fortunatly mine respect their boundaries, I do find a walk around the neighbourhood, even just around the block keeps them from really worrying about the outside world.... Once a day they get to patrol and see everything is fine







Keeps them quiet and less inquisitive!


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## kaslkaos (Jan 15, 2003)

Okay, I know I already posted on this, but I just can't help myself... the snow in my yard is now so high that my 4' fence is practically eye-level to a dog right now. Keep maximum potential snowload in mind if your planning on fencing.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The fencing around my kennels and the fields where I let my dogs romp is five foot. They do not try anything with it. I did have an electric wire around the inside perimiter, but I removed it because I added three kennels, and fenced in another area. And they do not bother the fencing at all. 

However, I do not LEAVE them in the fenced in area. That is for them to run around in when I am there. When I am not there, they are in kennels with a concrete base. Most of these are covered over. They are six foot tall. The dogs never try to jump them or scale them. Right now, I am ensuring that bitches in heat and dogs are in kennels that are covered. The rest are optional. If I have a jumper/climber I will have to adjust.


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