# Russell's vet visit and the muzzle



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Russell went to the vet today to get his rabies shot. He's co-owned with my breeder and in the past has gone to her vet. Well, time to start going to mine (he's almost 3), so I made the appointment.

Russ bounced in, made himself at home while we waited. The big ol' lug got weighed, and was a nice lean 82 lbs. The vet tech came into our exam room to talk to me, and then stepped out a minute. She came back in holding a muzzle! _Oh, I don't think so._ I told her he doesn't need a muzzle, he has a good temperament and is used to being handled. She looked like she thought I was crazy. I said seriously, he's not one of those skittery, biting shepherds that you're used to. She said okay, and said I need to take him back here for the vet to see. I could hear my vet Jeff on the other side of the door. She opened the door, and led Russell through, but left the door open so I could see and hear what was going on. 

He, of course, was a good boy, just like I said he was. My vet thought he was a hoot, which he is, lol. 

A muzzle? Automatically? Argh.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Frustrating, yes I am sure. But I don't have enough fingers left to count the number of times I have been told " oh he would never bite". Seriously. It's really quite sad. I stopped trusting most people when they say that. 

I am not one to automatically reach for a muzzle. But I also refuse to trust every owner that says how sweet and friendly their dog is. The scars on my wrist from " oh he is so sweet he won't hurt you" Bernese Mtn Dog that sent me to the ER, give me a different experience. 

That said, I am the first person to jump in when I see a muzzle getting pulled out for some dogs. Some dogs I know I can handle safely without a muzzle. Some, I always have one ready. No matter what the owner says. 

It sounds like the tech trusted you, and it worked out well. But please don't judge. Because our experiences are different than yours.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I guess I was surprised because they know I'm a dog groomer, and have been for almost 40 years, and I show dogs. I'm not your average clueless dog owner. I've had more than my share of dealing with dogs that bite, and owners not telling me what they know about their dogs behavior. 

None of the techs have ever shown up with a muzzle for Carly or Sage, or my Doberman that I had before the GSDs. Just Russell.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

If Russ had acted in any way weird or nervous, I could understand wanting a muzzle. But he was confident, friendly, cooperative, exactly like the other GSDs I've had in there.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Was this a new tech? Maybe one that had not had experience with you? 

I know certain owners. I know I can trust them, even with a dog I have never met. But if I don't know you, you could be the number one handler on the country, and I don't trust you.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

She's not a new tech there. I had her last week with Carly, when I took her for her rabies vaccination. And when Sage was sick, and I had her in and out of there for four months, she was one of the techs I dealt with. I don't know why she wanted to muzzle Russell. He's big? He's got a scary black face? He's definitely one big, bold masculine dog, but he also had two people out in the waiting room that wanted to pet him, so go figure! He exudes this energy, that says "I'm here!! The party can begin!". To Russell, even a trip to the vet is SO MUCH FUN. 

Well he goes back in 3 weeks for a heartworm check. I'll just ask Jeff (my vet) about the muzzle.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

I just had the experience at the vet where I say "no he's fine" and had him growl at the vet for listening to his heart not once but twice. He has never growled at any anyone. I will be purchasing and getting him used to a muzzle so it won't be a stressor on vet visits. He is used to being handled and heck she wasn't even doing anything invasive. I don't expect the vet or vet techs to put their safety on the line. Unfortunately both breeds of dogs I live with have bad raps in vets offices GSD and Schipperkes he is my first to growl.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

My vet usually tells the tech right away what he wants for Raina. She does not like to be forced or restrained with the head lock but will stand there and not move for shots and exams without being held. He told the tech not to worry and just let me hold the leash. When it came time for the stool sample she laid down and raised her back leg in the air so he could get the sample and the tech about died laughing. She looks so big and scary to some people but if you know her and he does, she is easy to handle at the vet as long as she doesn't see the needles. He hides the needles behind his back and comes around behind her to give her the shots. She doesn't even flinch. It seems the first thing the vet techs that don't know her want to do is the head lock but she is wearing a prong collar so they are shoving the prongs into her neck. I told one tech that and she practically refused to let go until my vet told her to. I understand it is for the safety of the vet but I have been going to the same vet a long time. He knows me and my animals and he knows them well so he tells them right off what to do or not do. I love my vet!


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Russel you are a rock star.Diane you and your breedeer should be very proud. I think Russel needs treats or chicken tenders.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

If my vet had come into the room first, there wouldn't have been a muzzle brought out. He's been my vet for over 10 years, and knows what kind of dogs I consistently bring in. I told him last week when he saw Carly, to be prepared for Russell who thinks everything is SO MUCH FUN. She's a nice tech, but I really think she was just intimidated by this big intact male GSD (she asked me if he was neutered). I get being cautious, but his behavior didn't warrant immediately slapping a muzzle on him.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks! I am pretty proud of the big ol' doofus. His dam is Carly, and his sire is a very nice dog that I know really well. Actually, I know all the grandparents well too, and a few dogs farther back in his pedigree too. Russell has the exact temperament I thought he'd have, considering who his parents are. Though when Russ is being particularly obnoxious, I ask my breeder "what were we thinking breeding Carly to Marti??"


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm thinking you should have had evidence <photo> of this big scary dog in this thread. Just saying.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

The "beast".


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

First vet visit with Midnite went like this...vet opens door, sees Midnite laying down nice and calm, vet shuts door, two minutes later vet open door again, vet enters room and walks along wall, Midnite lays there looking at him, vet hands muzzle to me, I look at him like he is from outer space but muzzle Midnite, vet examines him without issue, vet techs come in to get him to clean his ears, vet techs remove muzzle, Midnite is fine throughout all of it. I never brought him back there. Midnite doesn't need to be muzzled for anything and current vet and techs are comfortable with him--they love him and recently told me that not many dogs that come in of the GSD breed allow them to work on them without a muzzle.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Wow really? My vet and the techs have never even mentioned a muzzle for my two.


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## Waldi (Jun 14, 2013)

LOL, when I was 10 years old I took my GS boy (~90lbs) to vet on a string. When I entered clinic they all went to the room and though the door asked me to call my parents to assist. I stated that this is my dog and I can handle it, so they insisted to put muzzle on, I explained that he will absolutely obey my command. Vet had a hard time but eventually I was holding my dog when he administered shoots, dog was supper behaving and impressed vet that he never requested muzzle again. I told him, that dog is very protective of me but will not do anything if no one touches me. He always respected my dog and my dog never showed any aggression toward vet or any staff in the office. It is funny now to think about this, picturing small kid with large dog on the string and vat who actually trusted me at that time.


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## CroMacster (Oct 23, 2013)

Meh, I wouldn't be offended. People are so quick to be offended these days. Vets and vet techs deal with dogs all day long. And the way it is with vet visits they probably have a lot of problems dogs. Dogs that are great in the waiting room, great in the exam room, great until the vet starts poking and prodding, then wham. Even if you are a regular, it was a new dog to them and a German Shepherd at that.

How many owners do you think come in and say "oh he's such a good dog, I can't believe he would ever do that to someone!"


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I understand being cautious. It's not consistent though. I took another GSD in last week and no muzzle appeared. In 10 years of bringing Dobermans and GSDs to this clinic, I've never had a vet tech bring out a muzzle. It's a mystery. One I can solve though in 3 weeks when I go back for his next vet appointment. Not a big deal. I just want to know why Russell. 

Those dogs that the vet techs see all day long? Same kind of dogs I see all day long too, grooming. Except I have my hands on them for a lot longer than a tech does. All kinds of opportunities to get bitten. I get not wanting to be chewed up by a big dog. I've had more than one bad bite in my day.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Russ was actually there one time, last year, because he was shaking his head. His ginormous ears needed looking at, and he was a model citizen while my vet checked them out. New to the tech. Not new to my vet.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I fired one vet because he clearly did not like shepherds. And this is when Tygo was weeks old. Yes he was bite-y and a wild child but come on. That being said, Tygo is a high drive protection breed and is very confident in himself. He could bite if he was in pain. That and since he is a SAR dog I have trained him to a muzzle (some helicopter pilots for SAR require it). Our rescue GSD is a sweet sweet loving dog but she was a stray and not socialized to handling paws and ears. If she is in pain, her instinct is to flee. If she can't flee it is to fight and a bite could happen. She is being trained to a muzzle. At this time it is needed just to clip her nails.

I kind of think that like crates, it is nice to have muzzle training done so if it is every needed, it is no big deal. It gives you one more tool in the tool chest if ever needed.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

DutchKarin said:


> I kind of think that like crates, it is nice to have muzzle training done so if it is every needed, it is no big deal. It gives you one more tool in the tool chest if ever needed.


I've never thought about it, but you're right. I'd prefer to train him to a muzzle, rather than having it shoved on his face at the vet's office. Maybe I'll play around with that with my dogs. Make a game of it. Hey, anything that involves a treat is a game to them!


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## Pioneer53 (May 5, 2006)

They don't always wash the muzzles between dogs in the clinics. Seen them just shoved back in the drawer...just saying...  Better to bring your own basket muzzle that fits properly and allows your dog to still pant and breathe. Less constricting & stressful than the shut the mouth nylon sleeve muzzles. Leerburg has a good little video on muzzle training. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAlzJjJfKE


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Only one time did any of the vets I have been to suggest a muzzle. We were pulling a singleton puppy out of Babs, and I had her head, and the two of them were working on getting the puppy out of there, and Babs closed down on my thumb -- not biting me, just pushing with my thumb in her mouth. The vet asked me if I wanted a muzzle. We got the puppy out no problem.

I have suggested muzzles a few times, particularly when I think what is going to happen will be painful or scary, or the dog is in pain, and I won't be in the driver's seat. But the most senior tech there always says, she isn't worried with any of my dogs. Kind of made me feel all proud -- it is precisely at that moment when if your dog is going to bite someone, they will. But so far, knock on wood, the dogs have always been good at the vet, and my vet and their people are not frightened of them.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Well, my fifth shepherd has decided he doesn't like the vet. He doesn't mind anyone else in the office ... but not the vet. He was fine until he was several months old, then went in with an injury to a hind leg and when the vet tried to pick him up, he growled for the first time. Now, the noises he makes sound like a werewolf battling. I control the head and let the vet do his stuff. Once he's done and steps back around the table to write in the chart, Varik is fine again. He then tries to go say 'hi' to the receptionist. I've just decided to muzzle him and not try to get the vet back in his good graces, because now the vet is quite ... respectful ... of Varik, so not gonna work I don't think.


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## Jesterbelle (Oct 21, 2015)

I work at a clinic and it amazes me how aggressive some people let their dogs behave without a muzzle. I was actually bitten because a guy said he had the dog's face and that "he wuldn't do nothin' anyhows."


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Jesterbelle said:


> I work at a clinic and it amazes me how aggressive some people let their dogs behave without a muzzle. I was actually bitten because a guy said he had the dog's face and that "he wuldn't do nothin' anyhows."


Uh yeah. Also, it's takes a lot of trust on my part to allow an owner to control the sharp end of a dog I don't trust. It rarely happens. Because, I am trained to know how to prevent my vet from getting bit, even if that means taking the bite myself. 99.99% of owners, when the dog starts going al bitey witey, they let go, because they don't want to get bit. 

It takes a lot of restraint to calmly say during an exam, as the Dr is doing his thing "ok mr fluffy pants, we don't use our teeth" as the animal is buried teeth deep in my hand. 

Funny thing is, the owners I trust are usually the quickest to hand the lead to me. Not sure why, but IPO handlers, working dog owners, they are the ones who most frequently say " here ya go, you can be the bad guy" It's others who are "oh no, he doesn't like that, oh no, don't touch feet, oh no, are you holding him too tight???????"


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## kburrow11 (Jan 31, 2014)

Vida doesn't like the vet, I know this, and we are working on it. But every time we go to the vet, I remind her that Vida requires a muzzle for safe handling. I'm not going to idly stand by while my dog bites someone when I could prevent it. Thankfully my vet is super great and is working with us to get Vida more comfortable being there and being handled by her, so hopefully eventually the muzzle will no longer be necessary.


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