# what to think about my male GSD?



## eggo520 (Oct 28, 2007)

I am curious to see what some of the breeders and trainers here think about my male GSD, whom we adopted from an acquaintance who "could no longer keep him."









Jaga is a handsome guy with the traditional black-and-tan saddle look. However, he is HUGE for a GSD, I believe. I've never measured him but I'm fairly sure he would be extremely close to the upper end of the standard, if not over it. Also, while he has the sweetest, most lovable temperment a dog could ever have, he has no interest whatsoever in working or even basic training. He has little food drive, zero toy drive and just wants to sleep, eat and be petted.

While this makes him a great candidate for therapy work (which we plan on getting him involved in), it really doesn't strike me as adhering to the GSD standard. I'm 99.9 percent sure that our acquaintance got him from a BYB, but then I wondered if even reputable breeders ever get puppies whose temperments don't exactly reflect those of the standard...a kind of "throwback" I guess.









Is Jaga the product of bad breeding or is he simple on the extreme of the standard? We love him and would never give him up, of course, I was just wondering what others think


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Hard to tell really. I had a litter that was a 3-3 breeding on a really good dog. Expected ALOT from that litter. I got zilch. No prey, no food drive, no nothing. Just perfect little pets. Genetics would've said differently, but proof was in the puddin.


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

You may just have lucked out to have gotten a loving family companion with a very stable and mellow temperament. Not all breeders want to produce high energy, driven dogs. There is nothing wrong with producing German Shepherds that are loving and mellow family companions.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: WVGShepThere is nothing wrong with producing German Shepherds that are loving and mellow family companions.


There are many who would disagree with you on that.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

Just my arrogant opinion, in general a GSD should have the drive of the most energetic Labrador and have an attitude to go with it


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Emoore
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: WVGShepThere is nothing wrong with producing German Shepherds that are loving and mellow family companions.
> ...


Indeed.

Any dog of solid nerve and temperament is capable of being an excellent, loving family companion. However "mellow" is not a trait the GSD breed is supposed to have, nor one that should be bred for.


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## VALIUM (Nov 15, 2007)

Besides temparement, I would also consider hypothyroidism,it runs in the breed. Did you get him checked for any thyroid problems?.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

This is what the local AKC showline people in my area are breeding for: dogs with no drive or focus. All they are breeding for are dogs for people that don't want to have to do much with them, so basically couch potatoes.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Seems to happen a lot in lots of breeds. I had a lovely Golden who was from really good show lines, beautiful coat, lovely temperament, good food drive actually, but zero desire to retrieve. None. Worst Retriever I've ever had - beaten out by everything from Rotties to Dachshunds. Working drive just wasn't something that breeder was breeding for. On the plus side, Charlotte was an wonderful canine citizen and my beloved companion for 13 years. 

IMO people should not be breeding GSDs (regardless of line) with no drive and low energy. I don't think that's what the breed is about. But there are lots of them out there and they can make fantastic pets. Must as I love the drivey demons on a personal level, I'll freely admit the other kind are much easier to place in rescue and can be lovely dogs. Congrats on your new family member.


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## eggo520 (Oct 28, 2007)

Musa, I've never had him checked for thyroid problems, though I probably should. I should also get his hips and elbows x-rayed. Being from a BYB, I am very fearful that he will have hip and/or elbow dysplasia down the road


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

And he might. But on the other hand, many of them don't. My inlaws had a total BYB dog - oversized, coated, floppy hind end, the works. They fed him grocery store food and gave him lots of love and he lived to be almost 16. So...


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:You may just have lucked out to have gotten a loving family companion with a very stable and mellow temperament. Not all breeders want to produce high energy, driven dogs. There is nothing wrong with producing German Shepherds that are loving and mellow family companions.


If you were breeding miniature poodles, I'd totally agree. But if a German shepherd is intentionally bred to be mellow, it's no longer a German shepherd. Maybe it's a Shiloh, maybe it's a golden retriever with pointy ears, but it's no shepherd. If it happens accidentally, that's perfectly fine but to intentionally breed for those "couch potato" traits is contrary to everything that makes this breed. Breeders who pursue low energy and low drive GSDs with soft temperaments should drop what they're doing and leave the GSD breeding world.



> Quote:he has no interest whatsoever in working or even basic training. He has little food drive, zero toy drive and just wants to sleep, eat and be petted.


No GSD should be like this. The epitome of this breed is its intelligence and drive to work, even if it is just basic obedience. Emily, I'd have him checked for any medical reasons for this, then maybe you could start an energy/drive building program? You won't be able to improve much, but maybe you can do something. If his joints are healthy, perhaps you can start biking with him to build his endurance and energy, then you can work on creating a motivational reward toy. 

http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm

If it doesn't work, at least you can say you've tried.







Have you taken him to an agility class? Agility might be something new and different for him and he might enjoy all the activities.


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## eggo520 (Oct 28, 2007)

You know what's interesting is that Jaga loves toys and gets all excited about them when Holly is around and wanting the same toy. For example, if we're in the house and I pick up a ball and hold it above my head, Holly and Jaga will both come sit in front of me, both wanting it. In fact, Jaga will bark his head off trying to get me to throw it. But take Holly out of the equation and he could care less. Is he just excited by the idea of having something that she wants? Could it be that her jealousy over the toy ('cause poor Holly will BEG him for it, lol) makes him feel more powerful? They've never gotten into a fight or anything like that, but it seems to be sort of a mind game with him. Maybe if I worked with him more on his own with toys, he would change his motivation. Any thoughts?


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

How long have you had him? I've found it can take weeks for dogs to get comfortable enough to let it all hang out and get frisky or drivey. I've had several fosters who appeared to have zero drive when they got here but by the time they left were fetching and playing with toys, oriented towards food etc. They may not have been drivey monsters, but they were very different from the way they were when got here. Also, a lot of dogs can be very hesitant about engaging with you for the food or the toy when they first come to their new home - possibly because they were reprimanded for it in their last one, maybe just because they are feeling unsure and totally deferring to your possession. If that's the case, that would explain why he is more interested in things when Holly's around (dog game) versus when it's just the two of you ("that's mom's toy - I wouldn't dream of trying to take it!"). 

You may find that his drive develops as he settles in. I would try working with him one on one and offering lots of praise and encouragement whenever he engages with the toy.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

I have found this to be true with Sonny about his drive. Whenever we starts to engage in play we really encourage it, he loves to play but at times he gets frightened easily if sometime falls or he hears something that is he not used too. What I have been doing is having treats in my pocket so when he picks up a toy for fetching we work on it, I found that when I want to work on it he is not motivated. He loves to play after his training session too because he is excited to be up and around. He loves to pick up my slippers so instead of correcting him I make it into his job I say Oh you brought me my slipper get my other one and praise him and he gets my other one and I put them on my feet then ...then we focus on another toy. Everything about Sonny has to be praise because he shuts down easily. 

I am no breeder but in a way it is good at times to get a mellow GSD there are so many in the pound because they are so driven and people don't know how to use that drive for good things so when Sonny is really mellow and lays around I just think about how I could have a GSD that could be on the high end of drive and how hard it would be to keep him mentally engaged at times.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Elly
> I am no breeder but in a way it is good at times to get a mellow GSD there are so many in the pound because they are so driven and people don't know how to use that drive for good things so when Sonny is really mellow and lays around I just think about how I could have a GSD that could be on the high end of drive and how hard it would be to keep him mentally engaged at times.


But the answer is not to have mellow GSDs, it's to have less GSDs and those... on the right homes.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: LicanAntai
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Elly
> ...


Your right but it is a saving grace at this point 

With less GSD we also need breeders/pet shops to educated people before they adopt for beauty or because they just want a GSD (this is with many breeds), people get themselves into a situation because the puppy is cute and they impulse buy and then they have a dog 6 months down the road that is unruly because they thought they didn't have to do anything with it.

There is so much more to it as we all know and the stats are so sad for so many breeds of dogs.

At this point, we figured we would have a dog with more drive but he is also recovering from medical issues and we know with love, care, discipline, trust and more we are going to accomplish a very well rounded GSD out of Sonny. We have rehabilitated Cabela, a min pin rescued from a puppymill that had so many issues and he is doing great. I always say you have to shake those demons out of the closet and get rid of them and don't look back only forward to help the dog achieve success.


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## eggo520 (Oct 28, 2007)

Pupresq, we've had Jaga for almost exactly two years now (adopted him in January of 2007), and his drive has grown a bit since we got him. I think a large part of his temperment was shaped by the fact that, as a puppy, he was pretty much tied to a tree during the day and left at home while the owners went to work. Sure they played with him and stuff after work, but he stayed tied to the tree during the day until he was a year and a half old. When we brought him home, he had no idea what toys were. We'd throw a ball and he'd just look at it like "what's that?" Then one day, it just seemed to click! We threw a ball for him and he started to love it! He still loves to chase balls and toys and such, but he doesn't play tug and, after he picks up a ball, he'll get distracted while peeing on a tree or something and drop the ball, then walk away from it. Tough to play fetch when he's always leaving the ball behind


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