# First time attack...



## vanhoand (Jun 7, 2012)

Chevy is a 2yr old male GSD. He's been through what I would call basic obedience 1 (sit, stay, heel, etc) and passed with flying colors. He's been a great dog and we don't really have many behavioral issues with him (until last week). My wife and I were out of town and he was staying with my parents on their farm. At home he has an invisible fence that works great so at my parents we threw up some flags in the yard around the house and worked with him a bit to learn the new boundaries. He picked it up right away and did great all week. 

Towards the end of the week, my grandma came to their house wearing black pants and a black coat. Chevy didn't see her arrive until after she was out of the car and he freaked out and attacked her (probably because her sudden arrival and different clothing confused him - he's usually great around her). My parents heard the commotion from in the house and stopped the attack so she was ok (minus a few cuts and scrapes) but my wife and I are very concerned that he will do it again to someone else. And of course, I'm horrified that the situation could have ended much worse if my parents wouldn't have intervened.

When he's on a leash, he very controlled and responds to commands to calm down. But if someone knocks on the front door or is walking around the yard, he will freak out until he either recognizes them or I call him off (and even then he's still very anxious). Of course, he'd never actually attacked or bitten anyone until this incident.

We're wondering specifically what kind of training we need to get him in to help correct this behavior. Of course we don't mind when he alerts us to a stranger out front or something suspicious, but we can't have him biting everyone who comes to the door. Is there training that will help him distinguish a real threat to non-threat? I've heard of people being able to set their dogs on "alert" or something. 

Anyway, if anyone has specific training we could inquire about, I'd appreciate it. And if you need any more information on the situation or his temperament, please ask.


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## Girth (Jan 27, 2011)

I have a dog similar in age to yours and I am currently doing schutzhund with him. It has helped a lot but I never leave him unattended when people come over to the house. Normally I do three things: seperate him, put him on a leash or put him on the down. Which one I do depends on who is coming to the house and whether or not the wife and I are at home. New introductions are always done on the leash after that usually a down when the kids bring their friends over. I am by no means an expert but those are the things I do. As far as an on/off switch that would take a lot of training in my mind and we are a ways off to that level of training. Don't know if this will help you out or not.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

That's very worrying if your parents actually had to intervene to stop the attack. Even if he was freaked out he should have stopped when he realised who it was. 

I don't know of any training you can do to get your dog to accept people coming into your yard, if they're unsupervised. Perhaps someone else can advice.

I just know for sure that my dogs have always been contained, and always will be. 

I don't really understand the point of invisible fences - even if they keep your dog in - how can they keep people or other dogs out? 

Perhaps your dog was just stressed out being at your parents home instead of yours.

Can you tell us exactly how he reacted according to your grandmother and parents. Such as did he stop on his own accord or did they actually have to stop him.
________
Sue


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## vanhoand (Jun 7, 2012)

Thanks for the input. I'll just add a couple things in response to some of the questions raised. 

From what my dad told me he (Chevy) stopped when my dad came out of the house into the garage. So I don't think he had to pull him off her. My dad said he scolded him and Chevy did the usual "oops I'm in trouble shuffle off" so I think he realized that he did something bad; not that it helped the situation any. Its usually darker in the garage so maybe that prevented Chevy from realizing who it was... I really don't know though because if he knows the person, he settles down instantly and this wasn't their first interaction. 

The incident happened a few days into his stay and he likes visiting the farm so I don't think it was a stress factor. He's very comfortable there.

As far as the fence goes, I realize that it won't keep other dogs and people out of the yard, but he's pretty intimidating looking which keeps just about everyone out that doesn't know him. And the other dogs thing is I guess just a calculated risk. The primary purpose is to let him be outside without worrying about him wandering off and into the road. Which is the same reason we set up the "fake fence" at my parents.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Seems this dog needs to have a real fence to contain him, not an invisible one. A dog can get so excited/stressed that they will go through the invisible fence like its not there, barely feeling the shock.
I noticed almost the first thing you said was"she was wearing black pants and black coat, and the dog was in the garage. Sounds way to much like an excuse to me, he bit your grandma because he was able to get to her without anything stopping him, not because she was wearing black. 
You need to get rid of the invisible fence, they offer false security and get this dog behind a fence where he can't have another chance to bite someone, no matter what clothes they are wearing or whatever other reason .
Build a real fence. Still won't correct the biting issue, but will correct him getting loose.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

> When he's on a leash, he very controlled and responds to commands to calm down. But if someone knocks on the front door or is walking around the yard, he will freak out until he either recognizes them or I call him off (and even then he's still very anxious). Of course, he'd never actually attacked or bitten anyone until this incident.


I'm sorry for all the question but the more info the better.

Why do you have to tell your dog to calm down - does he react to people or dogs on walks? 

It sounds to me like your dog is unsure and anxious. Was he well socialized with loads of people and dogs as a puppy?

How did he react after the attack towards your grandmother? 

And has he exhibited any other kind of odd or strange behaviour?
________
Sue


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Perhaps this is as simple as a territorial protective dog.... Doing what territorial, protective dogs do?


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## vanhoand (Jun 7, 2012)

I'm not worried about the invisible fence. He's scared to death of it and doesn't get within 10ft of the boundary. 

The only reason I mentioned the difference in clothes, it that sometimes when I wear a large coat he doesn't immediately recognize me and barks and growls until I talk to him. The fact that it took place in a dark garage only makes me think it was difficult for him to determine friend or foe. 

As a puppy we had him around people (kids and adults) and other dogs all the time. He typically takes a few minutes to get to know other dogs but is friendly and playful after that. That said, I would probably agree that he gets a little anxious around new people but its not prolonged... 

After the attack he did what he always does when he knows he did something he shouldn't have, he gets really low to the ground and cowers. No other strange behavior though.

As far as getting him to calm down on the leash. I rarely have to do this. When we go on walks, he'll look at other dogs and people but rarely even barks. The calming down thing is usually when someone knocks on the door and he's inside off the leash. I think its especially due to the fact that he can't see who it is... Definitely some anxiety there.

I guess the bottom line is, what kind of training would be best to help him with this?


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

vanhoand said:


> I'm not worried about the invisible fence. He's scared to death of it and doesn't get within 10ft of the boundary.


Yes, that is good. But what are you going to do the next time a person comes up in "his" yard.... and he attacks them again?


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## vanhoand (Jun 7, 2012)

another good point. We've got sign's on the house warning people of him but I guess not much protection other than that. By the way, a physical fence isn't an option in our area (stupid homeowners assoc.)...


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

The sign is a red flag that you have an aggressive dog. Say this incedent happens again in your yard. The person sees the beware of dog sign,or warning sign and takes a photo of it. You end up in court being sued and the person shows the sign. You are advertising that you have a dog that bites and is dangerous. You need to take down your sign to save yourself grief.
I think you are asking for a huge lawsuit, you have a dog that will bite loose in your yard with an invisible fence. The next time might be a child riding a bike, or someone walking by your house with a dog and your dog might run through the fence. He won't get close to it now, but if pushed, things might be different.
Can you build a kennel? Not sure if that is against the rules either.
If not, I would make sure this dog is NEVER allowed loose in your yard without someone there to watch him at all times. I would worry about UPS man, delivery man showing up, and the dog doing to them what it did to your grandma.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I disagree with the signs statement in a previous post. Advertising with a Beware of Dog sign is asking for trouble. Simply putting a Dog on Premisis sign is stating you have a dog or dogs on the property and people should be aware they're present before simply strolling on in. Its not stating the dogs are a potential danger. Its just letting you know they are there.


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## vanhoand (Jun 7, 2012)

Yes, the sign doesn't say beware of vicious dog, its just stating that we have a dog.

Anyway, I appreciate all the psycho-analysis of Chevy but the original purpose of my question was for specific recommendations for types of training we could do with him to try and correct this behavior. Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts in that regard?


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I did not see where it said just "we have a dog". sorry about that. I stand by my Beware of Dog signs, but not "dog on premesis" signs, that is different.

As far as training, is there a trainer nearby that you can work with? Possibly contact the police department, they might have good ideas for trainers that have worked with GSD, or local kennel club? Your vet might know of a good trainer also. 
You need someone with experience with your type of dog, one that can be aggressive to the point of biting, gets overly excited when someone comes to door, when he sees other dogs. This is not normal behaviour in a dog with a good steady temperament, he is reactive to these things. A good experienced trainer in GSD's should be able to help you.
good luck


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## GSD2 (Jan 27, 2012)

You should find a good behaviorist experienced with GSD's and dog aggression. They can evaluate your dog and go from there. I do think it is important to use more than the invisable fence before something worse happens. I did read in a book about a lady who came home and her dog would not go near her, hid in the bathroom, she could not figure it out, until she took her umbrella, big rain hat and rain coat off. Then the dog reacted like "Oh! it's you!" Sometimes a dog thinks the hat or unusual clothing is part of the person, they don't recognize the person and are affaid. A good behaviorist will be able to assess the situation and give advice and/or training techniques to help. Good Luck


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## The_Dude (Jun 8, 2012)

vanhoand said:


> The only reason I mentioned the difference in clothes, it that sometimes when I wear a large coat he doesn't immediately recognize me and barks and growls until I talk to him. The fact that it took place in a dark garage only makes me think it was difficult for him to determine friend or foe.


I'm certainly not an expert on GSD and I am still awaiting my first pup to arrive; however, one thing stands out that's blatantly obvious. All dogs as a species in general have superior senses to human beings with the exception of sight. There strongest sense is there sense of smell (I mean come some dogs have had the ability to smell the smallest trace of cancer), followed by hearing which should be far beyond our capabilities, lastly their sense of sight isn't even as good as peoples. The point I'm trying to make is that unless your dog has some sort of disease and disorder which prevents him from "smelling" then he certainly knew who your grandmother was. I've seen had dogs in the passed that do get frightened briefly from "sight" before, such as a big coat, a hat , a Halloween costume, ect. Though I'm quite certain that his other senses should have picked up on who she was, but now that were on the topic of "sight" scares does anyone know why some dogs get spooked by strange object? I'm quite curious as to why and would like to know the answer myself. I wish you the best and hope you can get to the bottom of what triggered the behavior/attack.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Sometimes when dogs haven't been socialized to all the different possible people .... ie large bulky clothing, dark clothing, a hat, wheel chair, crutches etc they may react.

Your Grandmom was wearing black, in a dark garage - you were wearing a bulky coat, was it in the garage as well? 

This could be a anywhere from a socialization issue, considering his age as someone said a territorial issue to even eyesight. Instead of suggesting what kind of training, I would suggest an evaluation with a trainer that works with aggression as well and is very knowledgeable about GSD.

Until that is done, I would also add you should manage him as if he is aggressive because you simply don't know what to expect from him.


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## The_Dude (Jun 8, 2012)

vanhoand said:


> another good point. We've got sign's on the house warning people of him but I guess not much protection other than that. By the way, a physical fence isn't an option in our area *(stupid homeowners assoc.)..*.


Invite people over from the homeowners association to a yard sale when your dog is out and then maybe they'll see the logic behind having fences lol. J/k not trying to poke fun at you, but I hate the fact that home owners associations have the right to be so intrusive with regards to our basic rights and liberties! Some of those people should get bit j/k, at the very least some sense knocked into them.


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## The_Dude (Jun 8, 2012)

Twyla said:


> Sometimes when dogs haven't been socialized to Sometimes when dogs haven't been socialized to all the different possible people .... ie large bulky clothing,* dark clothing*, a hat, wheel chair, crutches etc they may react*.*


Not buying the dark clothing thing, dog's are color blind and people that belong to ethnicity's that are darker in complexion such as African-Americans would not be able to ever own a dog. Though I'm trying to understand why they get spooked by new sights and if you have anything to elaborate on this topic I'd love to hear it.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

vanhoand said:


> Yes, the sign doesn't say beware of vicious dog, its just stating that we have a dog.
> 
> Anyway, I appreciate all the psycho-analysis of Chevy but the original purpose of my question was for specific recommendations for types of training we could do with him to try and correct this behavior. Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts in that regard?


 Psycho dog analysis... hehe 

I am strange. I take the boys out in the yard in the pitch dark and hide from them behind shrubs and trees. Yeah, I do that. I wait for them to get involved in sniffing something or whatever, and I sneak off to the other side. I wave the branches. I make odd noises. I wait to see what they do.

Usually they know it is just mom being a loon. Other times I'm sneaky enough to fool them. They do come at alert. They do not charge, they just stand back and sort of hold. Hard to explain. Maybe you could try doing simple things like this. I might put my hoody up over my head. Just stand there maybe. Wait. Get your dog used to the unknowns like that.

Just an idea.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

The_Dude said:


> ...does anyone know why some dogs get spooked by strange object? I'm quite curious as to why and would like to know the answer myself.


Because they haven't had exposure to that thing. Nothing more complicated than that.


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## The_Dude (Jun 8, 2012)

chelle said:


> Psycho dog analysis... hehe
> 
> I am strange. I take the boys out in the yard in the pitch dark and hide from them behind shrubs and trees. Yeah, I do that. I wait for them to get involved in sniffing something or whatever, and I sneak off to the other side. I wave the branches. I make odd noises. I wait to see what they do.
> 
> ...


I don't think that's such a bad idea, I might try that with my dog if he becomes overly domineering or even spooked ect. The logic is sound if the dog becomes conditioned to be use to all that ruckus then maybe he'll relax. It works on service members trained for combat situations, why wouldn't it work for a dog? We're both social intelligent mammals.


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## The_Dude (Jun 8, 2012)

chelle said:


> Because they haven't had exposure to that thing. Nothing more complicated than that.


Hey do you know how to start a thread, I have some questions of my own that I need answered. Can't figure it out


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

The_Dude said:


> Not buying the dark clothing thing, dog's are color blind and people that belong to ethnicity's that are darker in complexion such as African-Americans would not be able to ever own a dog. Though I'm trying to understand why they get spooked by new sights and if you have anything to elaborate on this topic I'd love to hear it.


Can Dogs See Color 

VVMA

In one way, you are correct. If measured by human standards, dogs are colorblind. They do see colors however, just not how we see colors and it is more then black, white and gray


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## The_Dude (Jun 8, 2012)

Twyla said:


> Can Dogs See Color
> 
> VVMA
> 
> In one way, you are correct. If measured by human standards, dogs are colorblind. They do see colors however, just not how we see colors and it is more then black, white and gray


Good to know and thanks, but it is still irrelevant to the point I made, the logic is still sound. Color has nothing to do with spooking them otherwise they'd be frightened by all the other GSDs they meet which have huge variety in coat color and pattern, let alone all the other things in the world. On another note I need to post a thread of my own and don't know how, please help me


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

The_Dude said:


> Good to know and thanks, but it is still irrelevant to the point I made, the logic is still sound. Color has nothing to do with spooking them otherwise they'd be frightened by all the other GSDs they meet which have huge variety in coat color and pattern, let alone all the other things in the world. On another note I need to post a thread of my own and don't know how, please help me


Ahh but the color was relevant to the post I was making to the OP 

To post a new thread, go to the appropriate forum subject, open that forum, look in the top left for the new thread button.

If it's about puppy behavior - go to forums/puppy behavior


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## The_Dude (Jun 8, 2012)

Thank you I had started posting this question on every thread until I got the answer. lol thanks


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

vanhoand said:


> When he's on a leash, he very controlled and responds to commands to calm down. But if someone knocks on the front door or is walking around the yard, he will freak out until he either recognizes them or I call him off (and even then he's still very anxious). Of course, he'd never actually attacked or bitten anyone until this incident.


IMHO, the key word in your post might be anxious. Can you decribe what you mean by that? What's his behavior like after you tell him it's okay? (or whatever you do to let him know there's nothing for him to bark about)


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

KZoppa said:


> I disagree with the signs statement in a previous post. Advertising with a Beware of Dog sign is asking for trouble. Simply putting a Dog on Premisis sign is stating you have a dog or dogs on the property and people should be aware they're present before simply strolling on in. Its not stating the dogs are a potential danger. Its just letting you know they are there.


That is what I have posted on my gate, and no one comes to my door unannounced. No one has ever been hurt either. However, if a stranger approaches my gate that leads to my door, they can and have been greeted by my dogs giving a warning bark that a stranger is present. 

That said, there are idiots that simply do not READ the sign. One day a guy walked through the gate with the sign on it and came knocking on my door. My dogs were in the house with me at the time.


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