# Why don't people listen?



## Midnight (Oct 27, 2012)

So I haven't been on in a couple months. Midnight has been really aggressive and fearful since I brought him home. He warms up to dogs after about an hour, but people only if they ignore him for the first few times they are around him. I'm on trainer #3 because the first one joined the military and the second one tried to tell me never to correct him, but to use positive reinforcement only. That resulted in him snapping at her when she tried to put a thunder shirt on him. I took it back as it didn't calm him down at all. So third trainer was state police K9 trainer and Midnight responds great to him. But he's still prone to fear aggression. Trainer told me to take him places but not to let people pet him (which he won't tolerate anyway). Problem is, as a black GSD he is somewhat of an attractive nuisance. He's gorgeous and has a very "happy" face...until someone approaches him with their hands in his face. I tell people VERY FIRMLY to look but not to come close and for gods sake don't stick your hands in his face. "Dog" people, as they inform me they are, are the worst. They just don't listen until he is roaring at them. Then he's stressed and I have to take him to a quiet place so he can relax before any more public conditioning time.

HOW do I get people to stay away? I mean, I'm good at being a b, but I don't really like doing it and I know he's beautiful and looks all soft and shiny...but his teeth are sharp and large. 

What is a good message for these people that is both clear and firm but not mean? Or is that even possible?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

get a vest for him with patches that say IN TRAINING DO NOT PET!!! Thats all people need to know. If they start to approach to ask to pet simply say no he's in training and doesnt need the distraction. If they keep asking, simply walk away.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Be polite, but firm. Keep it simple rather than over explaining. You can smile and say "I'm sorry, he's in training". And then move on. If you continue to take him out in public you're going to have to be very proactive to make sure that nobody_ can_ get close enough to him for it to be a problem. 

Unfortunately, you can't control other people, so expect that they will try to get closer, especially the "don't worry, dogs love me" kind of people, and be ready for it. My dogs are actually friendly with people, (and gorgeous too! :wub but I've found that the general public tends to be pretty respectful of obvious training situations. Even when I'm working somewhere that distractions are the point, they'll give me a wide berth ("oh, she's _training_"), so I have to explain that it's fine, they can walk past us or whatever, and they can meet my dog if they want to. 

You can also get a vest or backpack with an IN TRAINING or DO NOT PET patch. I can't guarantee that will work 100%, but I've been out with one of my dogs in their backpack and had people just assume it was a service dog in training. I always explain that they're not, but I appreciate that they know that working dogs shouldn't be interfered with.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

KZoppa said:


> get a vest for him with patches that say IN TRAINING DO NOT PET!!! Thats all people need to know. If they start to approach to ask to pet simply say no he's in training and doesnt need the distraction. If they keep asking, simply walk away.


:thumbup:

We got ours here:

Working Service Dog - Butterfly Dual Pocket Vest


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Do you practice excercises with your trainer where you walk up to people and they walk up to you watching your dog and his comfort distance? this helped us alot.

i find with my FA dog i make all the decisions he makes none. if i know a person will do what i say and can trust them i approach, if i don't know a person or they say "dogs like me" thats a red flag and i just say he is NOT friendly with strangers, most people don't push that.

when i do decide to approach i am the leader, and i walk up to the person within maybe4-5 feet, make him sit, and just have a friendly conversation with the person and he knows its ok. if after a few minutes i see he's relaxed and wants to smell the person i let him, but i still say just because he smells you doesn't mean he wants you to pat him, but being curious and comfortable enough to smell is good.

when we go to the school yard to train alot of kids want to approach and see him. but, i do find most kids will ask "can i pet your dog" i say No guys, i'm sorry but he isn't used to kids and he might be scared. even though he knows what kids look like and has been around them at a distance i would never let them get close because they do want to touch him.

i have practiced many excercises with people over and over again. at training we will have him in a down stay in the field i will walk away and a different person will walk by him and stop and say hi Sam and Pat him, this took alot of work, but he's fine with it now. although its a quick pat and we do not push him, and the exercise is short lived, then we reward with playing tug. he loves people playing tug with him, and this is how i got him used to people patting him. when he is playing tug he's in a different mode, while tug is in his mouth people touch him. 

it just takes alot of time and positvely set up encounters, sure there might be set backs, but if something negative happens always try to end it on a positive note.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

You might have to get rude, or loud. If they start to reach out or come to close put your hand out and say loudly HE IS NOT FRIENDLY. WE ARE IN TRAINING! turn around and walk away.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

no, i would not get loud and upset, the dog will just feed off that. if you do not trust the situation simply turn and walk away calm and in control. if you raise your voice the situation could get worse for your dog, he will sense something is wrong and his trust in people will go further down the tubes. honestly, i would really try and set him up in postive situations for a long while and try not to take him anywhere where there might be surprise meetings with strangers. once you get better control of things then you can add more challenging encounters.


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

I think a "In training" vest is a great idea. I think if you are out in training then if some one starts to approach. You should be watching and should see them before they get to close. Tell them no he's in training and calmly walk the other direction. That's what I have had to do with Chief around African American's. He is more warry around them as he was abused by an African American man. He has gotten loads better, but we like to approach slow and I had to stand next to the person so he knows its okay. Now we have been able to approach almost anyone. It takes a lot of practice. I am still working on his obedience in general, but in that aspect it took a long while. When I first got him I couldn't get within eyesight of a man without him wanting to rip the guys throat out. I had to literally hold as tight as I could on the leash and sometime sit down to get my weight into it, so from that to what we are now is a total change.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

it does take ALOT of time, and it takes baby steps and learning the threshold of each individual dog. its best to go slow and set them up for success. i wouldn't take the chance if he's not at the point of control. again, setting up successful meetings for a long while so you both feel comfortable.


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

If you could put a muzzle on him no one will hassle you anymore 

An in training vest is great tho 


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## GusGus (Oct 24, 2012)

Mooch said:


> If you could put a muzzle on him no one will hassle you anymore
> 
> An in training vest is great tho
> 
> ...


A muzzle and a vest seem to be a great idea. I wouldn't just walk up and pet a dog with both on.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Mooch said:


> If you could put a muzzle on him no one will hassle you anymore
> 
> An in training vest is great tho
> 
> ...


I would carry the muzzle  my grandfather has had, less than knowledgable, individuals who have approached him while training in public with a muzzled shep saying "oh it's safe right s/he's muzzled?!" and they're already in the dog's face -doh!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

He is not ready to be out in public as long as he is not safe. You are liable when he bites someone. I would muzzle train him (it will relax you as well) and only work him in areas that he can handle and go from there. Not every one is dog savvy. Usually people mean well and assume that he is OK as you are in public with him. That's just the way it is. Dogs have been made into furry people and people have forgotten that they are domesticated peredators with teeth and animal instincts. It is our job to protect our dogs and the public.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i agree Wolfy! it takes alot of slow conditioning first before going into the unknown, or out in public where anyone could approach. i would take care in introducing the muzzel, some dogs feel more uneasy with it on. no way to defend themselves. some may handle the muzzel it ok, others it may make things worse. there are always going to be people out there in the world that don't get it, and its human nature to want to pat a dog interact with one. the vest is a good idea, but its not fool proof.


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## Sadie0804 (Feb 27, 2013)

Just say "he bites". Very simple and people who aren't dog people will get the hint more bluntly than "in training" lol. Would you still try to pet a dog if those were the only words out of the owners mouth?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I think until you get the 'In Training' patches....every time you take your dog out in public you should wear an obvious fake mustache. You should have loud conversations with yourself about the aliens and how much you hate the nightly abductions and probing. Keep calling your dog "The Mother Ship". You should wear a tin foil cap.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

Please don't think that any tags are fool proof ... I saw some dumb dumb try and pet a K9 standing around a train station once, seriously almost took the dudes hand off, if the cop wasn't so quick to react it would have been bad news for someone.

Cop yelled "what are you nuts? this dog is working!"

Now all I think is that if K9 dogs get that, your civilian dog surely will. Muzzles are usually a great people deterrent. I know I wouldn't go near a muzzled dog. Or one with a SHERIFF, POLICE DOG, or WORKING K9 vest, but that is just me.


oh to answer your question, people don't listen because they always know better than you.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i think owning a dog like this you really have to get over offending people, just handle the situation and move on. its all about you and what your doing with your dog..........just be aware about whats going on around you at all times and go accordingly.


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## San (Mar 22, 2012)

Agree with Wolfydog as well. If the dog is not safe, he is not ready to be out in public. Too many variables you can't control when you are out in public. 

Our first foster dog was a Malinois mix that was fearful (but not aggressive). We were fortunate enough to belong to a dog club. We used our dog club members to socialize her slowly. She was with us 8 months, by the time she left, she was no longer afraid of strangers and would actually gently nudge their hands for treats. 

Do you have any friends whom you can use to socialize her first?


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i would agree that the dog might need more conditioning before going to public places. a private trainer would be a good idea, so you can learn the triggers, how to read body lauguage of your dog, and the trainer can see what you might be doing. rehab does not happen over night, as said before it takes alot of time and patience. its kind of like throwing a dog in the lake that doesn't know how to swim., when you overwhelm them with to much to quick. then they feel like they have to defend themselves and pick up unwanted behaviors..........hope you can find some training help near you. it is well worth it.


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

If its for the persons safety and keeps your dog calm then be a 'b'. Sometimes thats all people really respond to. Tell them "back off" and if you have to walk away then do it


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## Midnight (Oct 27, 2012)

Lilie said:


> I think until you get the 'In Training' patches....every time you take your dog out in public you should wear an obvious fake mustache. You should have loud conversations with yourself about the aliens and how much you hate the nightly abductions and probing. Keep calling your dog "The Mother Ship". You should wear a tin foil cap.


Bahahahaha!!! Totally made laugh hysterically!!!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Okay... I like Nancy's idea. Tin foil hat and all!


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