# Dog law - Kid Hopping My Back Fence



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I caught him just as he was lowering his first leg down on my fence. He's about 8. Summer was in the house so no issue - but question.

I had just gone in to put the fan in the bedroom window when I saw this kid on the fence. The adjoining fence line parallels my back fence line and the two fences are about 8 inches apart. I saw him and he hung on the top of their fence for a minute and then stepped on to my fence to come into the yard.

I yelled at him thru the window - "don't do it, get back over there" and real quick he said OK and hopped back up on his fence. He told me they lost their ball. I told him I'd be right out to look for it. I found it and tossed it over the fence and told him not to come into the yard because I have a dog. I wasn't angry with him or anything - (just thanking whoever was watching out for us all). He said "I wasn't going to, I was just looking" (yea right) anyway, he said he didn't live there and he was just visiting. He thanked me and was very polite cool little kid (a lying little sack - but he's a kid).

So - I was just leaving for the store and usually let Summer out to go pee. Thank Heaven I had a hot flash and went for the fan just before I left.:surprise:

She loves people- but that would have been quite a surprise for her and in her yard...... I imagine she would have raised bloody-ell barking and I would have been there in about 2 seconds.

BUT - what would have been the consequences if I hadn't seen the kid and let her out and she bit him? Would it be all my fault? The kid could have been 8 or 9. I'm still a little freaked out - this happened about 20 minutes ago.


----------



## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

I have signs on all my fences, they are weather proof and cost about $15 each from a printer.

Dog on Premises 
Enter by Appointment Only


----------



## puffswami (Aug 26, 2010)

Well its kind of a tricky situation as the child is not held to the same standard as an older child. Its probably more similar to the "attractive nuisance" doctrine (like a homeowner with a swimming pool that kids climb the fence to swim in unbeknownst to the homeowner) than a trespassers vs. homeowners rights. A lot of factors like is your yard next to a soccer field wherein you should reasonably expect stray balls falling in your yard. Is there a "Do not trespass" sign (but with a childs comprehension level what does that even mean?? 

I am a bit risk averse and would err on the side of caution. I wouldn't let my dog run unsupervised regardless. And moreover, the bitten party would likely tell a story of him being completely innocent vs. your big bad dog (like your dog jumped the fence, bit him and then dragged him over the fence into your yard...don't laugh...this kinda sh*t happens.). Many states also have strict-liability for any type of dog-involved harm to resolve the congestion of the court system, meaning you would be responsible no matter what.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Well this is kinda scary. In today's world you might be responsible, in my mind you wouldn't be. Kids will be kids and don't think before they do stuff. There are people that have guard dogs for the sole purpose of keeping all people off their property. Do you have no trespassing signs up? Private property signs? It might be a good idea to call someone locally to see what happens in a case like this. You shouldn't have to worry about letting the dog in your fenced in yard. My dogs run in and out on nice days. I listen for them and check on them if they get quiet. One should not have to leash their dog on their own property. I got a house with a yard for my dogs and they use it.


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

If its not one thing it's another!Geez!I think they would sue the heck out of you unfortunately, signs or no signs.Better check out local ordinances and make plans to cover your ***.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

When I first moved into this house... the first week someone stole my bicycle out of the backyard. The police said they just happened to have a neighborhood watch meeting in 3 days for this area and encouraged me to attend which I did.

They encourage people to get dogs - I raised my hand and said the sole reason I bought a house was so I could have a yard and dog again, but what about posting signs?. They asked what kind and I said GSD. They asked me to stay and speak with them after the meeting which I did.

They said GSD - Yes! - Signs- No! There were 4 officers there and one LE legal council. She explained to me that the signs mean one thing as for most cases of truspassing law, however with a dog bite involved (and the insurance companies)- there is a different outlook for a judge and how he must decide even though they don't like to do it and they don't think it's right either.....


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

llombardo said:


> You shouldn't have to worry about letting the dog in your fenced in yard. My dogs run in and out on nice days. I listen for them and check on them if they get quiet. One should not have to leash their dog on their own property. I got a house with a yard for my dogs and they use it.


That's exactly what I do - have the back door open and she comes and goes when the weather is nice. I had just given her some raw chicken and normally keep her in for an hour after she eats and then open the back door again, so luckily she was in. 

I'm training her against barking and DA in the yard, so I'm right there if she barks to correct her - but man - this was around back and could have been a train wreck. I trust her a lot with peeps but...shoot..


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Stonevintage said:


> They said GSD - Yes! - Signs- No! There were 4 officers there and one LE legal council. She explained to me that the signs mean one thing as for most cases of truspassing law, however with a dog bite involved (and the insurance companies)- there is a different outlook for a judge and how he must decide even though they don't like to do it and they don't think it's right either.....


This depends on your area. And, often, police are the last people to ask. They are generally not familiar with the civil case laws that effect these decisions. Police are only trained in criminal law. Civil is an entirely different matter.

The best way to get legal advice is to contact an attorney in your area who specializes in dog bite lawsuits. When his paycheck comes from suing dog owners, he knows exactly what is and is not going to go against you in court. Well worth the investment for a consult. 

It can vary from county to county, even from city to city. 
For example, in my area you MUST have a beware of dog sign.
Even in areas that have a bad case history against "beware" signs it is often advised that you have some type of sign that indicates that there are dogs in the yard. Something like "Keep gate closed, dogs on premises"


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks. I'll check back with that but it was not the officers that told me no signs, they're the ones that said GSD Yes!. It was the woman that was one of the Legal Council attorneys that work for LE that told me about no signs. I think that's why they asked me to stay after, so she could utter the words and not them. I used to get more candid information then I have access to now when I worked for an elected official....


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Generally, the dog's ears and nose will smell a child before he sets food on a fence. So your dog will be over there barking and probably acting a fool, and the kids if they have any brains at all, will come knock on your front door and ask you to go get the ball. 

Generally. 

If you are concerned, I would go over and meet your neighbors, and tell them that one of the kid's friends was on the fence, and you would hate to see any accidents happen. So could they just make sure their kids know to tell their friends to come to the front door and ask, if you are home you will come after a ball or whatever. If you aren't and the dog is out, they are going to have to wait. 

If someone climbs over a physical barrier and is bitten by your dog, then you should not be held liable for that. However, if a child is down and being injured by a dog, a parent or police officer can use any level of force THEY deem necessary to try to save the child. So while you may be in the right, and you may not be held civily or criminally responsible, your dog can still get hurt badly or killed. For this reason, I keep dogs in kennels in a fenced back yard when I am not home. The dogs can potty, and drink, and I can put sunscreens on top. Some of them are fenced over the top -- that is an option. You can use a padlock for extra protection if necessary. You can put up cameras to watch the environment in case people are teasing or worse to your dog. The kennel can be 5x10' it's not 24/7, or it can be 10-15' x 20-30' that's up to you. If it has a concrete base, you don't need to worry about the dog digging out. And, the dog will not get muddy if it rains. You can put a dog house in there to give him a place to go if it rains, a sunscreen over top, a cot to lie on, a water bucket, even a kiddie pool if it is hot. But this would stand open if you are home, and only be used if you are not home. 

It would be safer for your dog.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Stonevintage said:


> When I first moved into this house... the first week someone stole my bicycle out of the backyard. The police said they just happened to have a neighborhood watch meeting in 3 days for this area and encouraged me to attend which I did.
> 
> They encourage people to get dogs - I raised my hand and said the sole reason I bought a house was so I could have a yard and dog again, but what about posting signs?. They asked what kind and I said GSD. They asked me to stay and speak with them after the meeting which I did.
> 
> They said GSD - Yes! - Signs- No! There were 4 officers there and one LE legal council. She explained to me that the signs mean one thing as for most cases of truspassing law, however with a dog bite involved (and the insurance companies)- there is a different outlook for a judge and how he must decide even though they don't like to do it and they don't think it's right either.....


I think it applies to beware of dog signs and they can mean I know I have aggressive dogs. I do not have beware of dog signs. I have dog on premise, which means I'm telling you have a dog and that's it. I also have no trespassing and private property signs, which is saying this is my property and your not welcome.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

selzer said:


> Generally, the dog's ears and nose will smell a child before he sets food on a fence. So your dog will be over there barking and probably acting a fool, and the kids if they have any brains at all, will come knock on your front door and ask you to go get the ball.
> 
> Generally.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the information. My dog's always in the house when I'm not home, she's well house mannered in fact - she's only out when I'm there and the weather's nice and the back door's open or I'm out there with her. She's training against DA on fence line, so she can be never more than a couple of seconds of my correction.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I think it applies to beware of dog signs and they can mean I know I have aggressive dogs. I do not have beware of dog signs. I have dog on premise, which means I'm telling you have a dog and that's it. I also have no trespassing and private property signs, which is saying this is my property and your not welcome.


She told me no Beware of Dog signs and iffy on No Trespassing signs - but I think I read about a positive on simple "Dog on Premise" signs. That might be exactly what will work for me. I'll look into that with an attorney.... Thanks!:smile2:


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

By and large kids don't really read or believe signs, I know I didn't growing up.  

But I would treat them like an invading vermin situation, Cattle wire on the top of the fence ... it's to keep the dog in. 

Or those Coyote roller things, I've never had the kid hopping thing happen but don't think I'd like it either.


----------



## cgripp256 (Feb 7, 2016)

puffswami said:


> Well its kind of a tricky situation as the child is not held to the same standard as an older child. Its probably more similar to the "attractive nuisance" doctrine (like a homeowner with a swimming pool that kids climb the fence to swim in unbeknownst to the homeowner) than a trespassers vs. homeowners rights. A lot of factors like is your yard next to a soccer field wherein you should reasonably expect stray balls falling in your yard. Is there a "Do not trespass" sign (but with a childs comprehension level what does that even mean??
> 
> I am a bit risk averse and would err on the side of caution. I wouldn't let my dog run unsupervised regardless. And moreover, the bitten party would likely tell a story of him being completely innocent vs. your big bad dog (like your dog jumped the fence, bit him and then dragged him over the fence into your yard...don't laugh...this kinda sh*t happens.). Many states also have strict-liability for any type of dog-involved harm to resolve the congestion of the court system, meaning you would be responsible no matter what.




You must be in insurance. You sound just like my wife


----------



## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Chip beat me too it. Coyote roller on top of the fence and a hot wire inside that in case any vermin make it through. If someone complains you can just say it's to make sure your dog's don't decide the go over the fence.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

angelas said:


> Chip beat me too it. Coyote roller on top of the fence and a hot wire inside that in case any vermin make it through. If someone complains you can just say it's to make sure your dog's don't decide the go over the fence.


Yeah ... vermin I like it. :grin2:


----------



## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> By and large kids don't really read or believe signs, I know I didn't growing up.
> 
> But I would treat them like an invading vermin situation, Cattle wire on the top of the fence ... it's to keep the dog in.
> 
> Or those Coyote roller things, I've never had the kid hopping thing happen but don't think I'd like it either.


Okay that's freaking funny.


----------



## Niexist (Feb 19, 2016)

This is as dumb as someone getting sued for the burglar who broke into their house, or the person who sued mcdonalds because their coffee was too hot. *** Removed by ADMIN ***


----------



## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

McDonald's - well sorta frivolous, except the 79 year old woman had 3rd degree burns and underwent skin grafting.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

You guys do know we just lost a dog over the kid thing (I think) dog was taken away in any case?? Dog on his lawn kid approached, owner shouted at the kid, dog got ramped up and tense. Kid kept coming and got bit! Lawsuits and penalties abound, it can be a serious issue for those of us who have dogs that don't live with kids.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Galathiel said:


> McDonald's - well sorta frivolous, except the 79 year old woman had 3rd degree burns and underwent skin grafting.


McDonald's coffee is "insanely" hot!!! Anyone can test it out at will, order a cup take a big sip and let us know how it works out??? :grin2:


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

It depends on local ordinances. State, county and city. Then it would depend, if you were taken to court, on the judge or jury. 

Would your dog be likely to bite a kid in a situation as you portray? If I were in your situation, I would be posting this question as more of a hypothetical - As in, If in northern Idaho, a child were to climb over someone's fence and their dog, with no bite history, bit the child, what legal ramifications ensue for the homeowner/property owner/ dog owner?


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

OK read some more -- before getting fancy with electric fencing, check your zoning ordinances. Rural subdivision in Wyoming - couldn't have hot wire on the corral for the horse.... Only place I could have hot wire was around the hay area which was well-within my property and not accessible to other people.


----------



## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> You guys do know we just lost a dog over the kid thing (I think) dog was taken away in any case?? Dog on his lawn kid approached, owner shouted at the kid, dog got ramped up and tense. Kid kept coming and got bit! Lawsuits and penalties abound, it can be a serious issue for those of us who have dogs that don't live with kids.


This is why even if I'd like to smack the kid into next week for doing something to my dog through the fence, I try to keep my cool and educate the child on what's good TO do instead of what NOT to do, versus yelling and teaching my dog to associate kids with stress. Even if this is literally the sixth time I'm telling him.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Chip18 said:


> You guys do know we just lost a dog over the kid thing (I think) dog was taken away in any case?? Dog on his lawn kid approached, owner shouted at the kid, dog got ramped up and tense. Kid kept coming and got bit! Lawsuits and penalties abound, it can be a serious issue for those of us who have dogs that don't live with kids.


I thought the guy said the dog was being taken to some dog trainer in FL. 

Stranger kid climbing over your fence and getting bit by your dog, is a little different than neighbor kid who played with the dog on other occasions, running into your yard and getting bit. 

Bottom line is some guy lost his dog and a kid factored into the situation. The guy couldn't keep the dog himself -- travel, service. The marriage was shot. The wife was going to take the dog, but lacked responsibility to do so -- left the dog roaming in the yard, couldn't pony up for higher insurance rates now that the dog bit a kid. Blaming the kid for this situation, well, that's a bit rich. Expecting the court system to do the same or worse if a kid climbs over a fence to get to the dog, apples to oranges. I think the only similarity in the two scenarios is that there was a kid present in each. 

We can't stop living because there are kids in the world. We have to do a reasonable job to ensure our dogs are safely contained, and a reasonable job to ensure that children below a certain level of responsibility not have free access to our pets.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> I thought the guy said the dog was being taken to some dog trainer in FL.
> 
> Stranger kid climbing over your fence and getting bit by your dog, is a little different than neighbor kid who played with the dog on other occasions, running into your yard and getting bit.
> 
> ...


I take your point. 

Apples to Oranges only thing in common is "Kid's" can be PIA's. 

I don't remember seeing any the "details" you outlined in the other situation?? But it was not looking good ... and I stopped reading ...my bad.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

middleofnowhere said:


> OK read some more -- before getting fancy with electric fencing, check your zoning ordinances. Rural subdivision in Wyoming - couldn't have hot wire on the corral for the horse.... Only place I could have hot wire was around the hay area which was well-within my property and not accessible to other people.


Well just throwing ideas out there. Coyote Roller would be a viable option also.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Chip18 said:


> I take your point.
> 
> Apples to Oranges only thing in common is "Kid's" can be PIA's.
> 
> I don't remember seeing any the "details" you outlined in the other situation?? But it was not looking good ... and I stopped reading ...my bad.


Kids by definition, are unpredictable, irresponsible, they run and scream, they are curious, they do not always have a healthy respect (fear) of things that might do damage. One of the few purposes of society is the protection of children. They are not little adults, and they do not always make the best decisions. 

Parents and guardians are charged with protecting them, managing them, supervising them, training them, and teaching them. But, they are also charged with helping them reach their potential, which includes becoming responsible members of society. One does not become responsible if you have your parent watching and dictating every moment of your life so that you cannot possibly set your foot wrong. So parents MUST evaluate children and give them opportunities to build character. At age ____ a child can play in their back yard by themselves. At age ___ a child might be able to go to the corner store and spend her allowance on her own. 

This is one aspect of child rearing that is different than pet ownership. A pet does not have to demonstrate independence upon maturity. A pet never has to take himself to the corner store, or go and find a job and keep it. A pet will be a dependent forever. 

So the world has to be safe for little children within reason. Safe may mean access to someone's dogs requiring a child to have the mental capacity of 7 or 8 years as opposed to 3 or 4 years. Dog owners have to take some responsibility, but they do not have to set up a fortress. 

Sometimes kids will make dumb mistakes, because they are kids. They are going to go over a fence, or open a gate. Sometimes they are going to be ok doing it, and sometimes they are going to get hurt. Just like sometimes kids get into a swimming pool and they may have swam in the pool several times with no one knowing it, but when they have an accident it is often serious, even fatal. The pool owner may or may not be in trouble, because you have to secure an attractive nuisance, even on your own property. If the neighbor's toddler, gets out of their back door and crawls to your in ground pool and falls in and drowns, the pool owner will most likely be at least somewhat liable.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> Kids by definition, are unpredictable, irresponsible, they run and scream, they are curious, they do not always have a healthy respect (fear) of things that might do damage. One of the few purposes of society is the protection of children. They are not little adults, and they do not always make the best decisions.
> 
> Parents and guardians are charged with protecting them, managing them, supervising them, training them, and teaching them. But, they are also charged with helping them reach their potential, which includes becoming responsible members of society. One does not become responsible if you have your parent watching and dictating every moment of your life so that you cannot possibly set your foot wrong. So parents MUST evaluate children and give them opportunities to build character. At age ____ a child can play in their back yard by themselves. At age ___ a child might be able to go to the corner store and spend her allowance on her own.
> 
> ...


All true and my counter argument?? Would be the same people that can't train there dogs most likely should not have kids either??

Some folks are better suited for Gold Fish or for the truly lame, maybe "Pets Rocks" are still available on E-Bay???


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

"Bottom line is some guy lost his dog and a kid factored into the situation. The guy couldn't keep the dog himself -- travel, service. The marriage was shot. The wife was going to take the dog, but lacked responsibility to do so -- left the dog roaming in the yard, couldn't pony up for higher insurance rates now that the dog bit a kid." 

that is not as I read it. Wife was out with dog in front yard, kid came running, wife yelled stop. kid kept running, wife yelled again, dog got excited and bit the kid. I do not read this as the dog was "left roaming in the yard" 

People can turn ugly when something happens. Good to be on alert to situations and do what you can to safeguard your pups.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

middleofnowhere said:


> "Bottom line is some guy lost his dog and a kid factored into the situation. The guy couldn't keep the dog himself -- travel, service. The marriage was shot. The wife was going to take the dog, but lacked responsibility to do so -- left the dog roaming in the yard, couldn't pony up for higher insurance rates now that the dog bit a kid."
> 
> that is not as I read it. Wife was out with dog in front yard, kid came running, wife yelled stop. kid kept running, wife yelled again, dog got excited and bit the kid. I do not read this as the dog was "left roaming in the yard"
> 
> People can turn ugly when something happens. Good to be on alert to situations and do what you can to safeguard your pups.


No fence, front yard, woman was out there reading a book while her dog was loose in the yard, dog was maybe sleeping, whatever, too far away for her to intervene when a child who knew the dog, who played with the dog on other occasions, came running over -- small kid 4-5 years old. Woman yelled at the kid to stop, and the dog reacted, probably to the woman's yells. 

Bottom line was, the man couldn't keep the dog because of the travel, being in the service. The woman, when they were getting divorced said she would take the dog, but now with the bite history won't take the dog and thinks they should put it down and save the 3k fine.


----------



## puffswami (Aug 26, 2010)

Niexist said:


> This is as dumb as someone getting sued for the burglar who broke into their house, or the person who sued mcdonalds because their coffee was too hot. I love how our actions are now being dictated from that worst case situation of being in a courtroom with a liberal judge.


Has someone ever handed you something that was really really hot (I mean really really f**king hot btw) and it has startled or surprised you? Well that was an everyday thing for McDonalds coffee back in the day. You have to realize that before the modern coffee market was created "hot coffee" was cheap/free but of course it tasted like sh*t. 

I remember as a kid how my parents would get coffee there and it was near-boiling hot. It is very hard to conceive of this in the more modern age of Starbucks' high-end customer base, Frappacinos, etc. which have essentially created the modern coffee market (ever notice how wherever you go the prices are in-line, similar coffee-drinks, even size cups with Starbucks? That is not a coincidence.) 

The coffee that McDonalds used to serve was NOTORIOUSLY HOT for a number of reasons. McDonalds was typically serving to lower socio-economic groups (they still do but now Starbucks affected their market share) who needed there coffee to be hot for a long-time as they had their long commutes, truckdriving jobs, outdoor construction jobs, etc. Taste was secondary to temperature in these type of occupations. They liked their coffee very hot...... like they liked their women with some meat on her bones..... like they liked trucks that were either Ford or Chevy..... like they liked their country music ...well you get the picture.

Thankfully most people have finally woken up to most corporate negligence (which indirectly looks out for people who choose to go through life with their eyes closed).

btw: the reason homeowners get sued for injuring burglars is using unjustified force. You can't kill people who don't have intent to harm or steal from you. And 90% don't have anything worth stealing/irreplaceable but just of sentimental value.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes, McDonalds' coffee was negligently hot. I agree. My sister, who is a lawyer, works from home (no long commute), and listens to Rock&Roll music (no country music in there), likes their coffee because it was served HOT! 

I never could drink the stuff because by the time it cooled down enough to drink it, I was wherever my long commute took me.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

A follow up. It appears this same neighbor that I had a problem with the kids - are new renters that are operating an afternoon "day care" center a few afternoons per week now. It appears they are turned lose in her (tiny) backyard for a couple of hours from the time school lets out until their parents get off work and pick them up. They seem to be age 9-12 and unsupervised in the backyard.

Today, Summer barked once - I was working in the shop and went out to see what was up. Two kids were high up in the tree that is half in and half out of my property. They couldn't see me, (leaf cover) but I could hear them. I approached them and said "please stop teasing my dog". They climbed down to trunk level and the boy said "we weren't". I said "yea you were, both of you were hanging up there making "meow" noises at my dog. 

I called Summer and brought her around the corner into the house. Went back out about 45 seconds later and the girl had her foot on the top of the fence calling for the dog..... I went back in the house and got my camera and told her to please get off the fence and over to the other side... The boy was also on the tree ladder. I said they needed to stay off the fence, that if they fell and got hurt - I could lose my house over it. The boy said to the girl (as if I was invisible) "yea" that's the same thing she told my friend George that comes here".

I went around the corner and waited - they were right back up in the tree - this time I started taking pictures - after talking to them twice. Here are the results..... I know I need to go over there and speak to the renters.

This is kind of a tricky situation and I could use come advise.... The people that bought that property about 8 years ago... had a "fire" 3 weeks after purchase of the old, run down house...."Smoke" my previous GSD woke me up at 3:00am one weeknight barking... I looked at the window he was alerting at and could see flames in my backyard outbuilding windows and hear small explosions... I was in a daze but opened my bedroom window and saw it wasn't my shop but a reflection off my shop windows to the house behind us.

This turned out to be one of the largest fires in the city in a very long time. It was 4 alarm and there were 9 city and county trucks here. I called it in and Smoke and I sat (me in coat and pajamas) on a curb for 5 hours. It was a heavily insured 1920's two story and the "contractor" owner rebuilt a 4,500' 3 story monstrosity. It was arson (according to the fire dept reps that interviewed me) but they couldn't prove it and the same owners still own it.... they moved out 3 years ago but it's a white elephant house (a 4,500 sq ft house on a 50x100 lot comeon!) So, renters come in every summer and seem to leave when they get first winters heating bills.

Anyway, the property owner is not someone I want to deal with... They are part of a religious sect and I believe the subsequent renters in the summers are part of the same sect.

They had a tiny Yorkie... ran free thru the neighborhood for years. It got into my backyard one day and I went over and knocked on the door and explained my concern for their dog in my yard only. If Smoke happened to be out he would have dispatched that dog. She said "Oh, your one of the neighbors I haven't met yet"... Don't worry about our dog... if he gets killed - it's God's Will and we won't blame your dog at all. I remember the day when that tiny dog finally got hit by a car. By the time I got outside who ever had hit it had apparently taken it to a vet to try to save... but the impact was hard and the crying ended very quickly..... 

Should I call LE instead of trying to deal with these people and ask them to keep the kids off the fence/tree? Summer was in no way hostile, just curious but she hasn't had any socialization with kids.

Last photo is girl trying to hide behind tree when she sees me back out again. Boy is thumbing his nose. This, after I'd talked to them twice....

*** Pictures removed by ADMIN ***


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Just wanted to add. The white fence you see is on their property and the tree is just barely touching that fence. My fence is older and about 1.5 foot step down from the white fence (ascending hill) My chain link fence at 5' theirs at 6.5'. The two fences are about 4 inches apart.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Have you talked to the adults who live there and run the day care?


----------



## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

I don't think le can really do anything. They are not entering your property. 
I don't think you should be posting those pictures on a public forum. 
If they are running a daycare are they licensed? I know in NY you need to be licensed....


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi, and thanks for your response. My post goes into detail on why I'm reluctant to just go over and talk to them.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

cloudpump said:


> I don't think le can really do anything. They are not entering your property.
> I don't think you should be posting those pictures on a public forum.
> If they are running a daycare are they licensed? I know in NY you need to be licensed....


Agreed


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I would speak to the renters and keep Summer inside when the kids are there.Totally not fair for you and her, but if one of those kids gets so much as a scratch climbing over to your yard and claims the dog did it....
They may just stop when there's no dog to tease.LE may be able to make an impression on them but who knows.Brats.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> I don't think le can really do anything. They are not entering your property.
> I don't think you should be posting those pictures on a public forum.
> If they are running a daycare are they licensed? I know in NY you need to be licensed....


I'm trying to keep a potential disaster from happening here. I am very concerned and asking if I should call LE or go knock on their door. I don't know if they are licensed or not and I'm not going to ask them. That's one of the reasons I think I should go thru LE. 

They are entering my property when they step down from the white fence onto mine which is about 1.5' lower. Also, when they climb the tree and are totally over my yard, they are on my property and if they fall... it's all on me.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> Hi, and thanks for your response. My post goes into detail on why I'm reluctant to just go over and talk to them.


I reread and saw that. You still need to talk to them in a polite and friendly, informational way. I understand how you feel and I wouldn't want to either, but if the children are bored and not supervised they are going to be annoying and tease your dog constantly.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> I reread and saw that. You still need to talk to them in a polite and friendly, informational way. I understand how you feel and I wouldn't want to either, but if the children are bored and not supervised they are going to be annoying and tease your dog constantly.


They will tease my dog constantly unless LE is involved. The only reason I brought LE into the conversation is these kids reaction today after I had talked to them twice and then a third time and you see the reaction I got. Talking to the parent there (but not there) is going to have more force than LE talking to them? Or do you just think it's an etiquette thing? I don't.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The dog isn't the only thing to worry about. What about if they fall on your property and hurt themselves? I would go that route and talk to the adults. Tell them your concerned that they may fall off the fence or get their foot caught between the fences and hurt themselves.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> Yes, McDonalds' coffee was negligently hot. I agree. My sister, who is a lawyer, works from home (no long commute), and listens to Rock&Roll music (no country music in there), likes their coffee because it was served HOT!
> 
> I never could drink the stuff because by the time it cooled down enough to drink it, I was wherever my long commute took me.


Hmm slight of topic I guess?? But unless McDonald's changed things ...yesterday ... there coffee is still insanely hot!!


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

llombardo said:


> The dog isn't the only thing to worry about. What about if they fall on your property and hurt themselves? I would go that route and talk to the adults. Tell them your concerned that they may fall off the fence or get their foot caught between the fences and hurt themselves.


That is my main concern. Those two fences are inches apart and a trap for a foot or ankle. Both times, I came into the house and sat down and sorted my thoughts on how to deal with this and their injury on the fences/or falling out of the tree were my first concern. Summer was fine, she displayed playful curiosity and nothing else. She was great and took a load off my mind. 

I do have an alternative.... I have two rolls of wire fencing (the old fashioned kind made to be installed with metal stakes (the old time fancy twisted wire fence with hoop dips on the top row... I could - in 1 day attach a 12' length of that - mounted on my chain link (wire ties) to come to an 8' height along that stretch where the tree is....

And stick a bright red and black "No Trespassing sigh pointing into their yard on the top of my 8' wire fence."

This would in my opinion (excuse the expression "Trump") talking to the neighbors or contacting LE and possibly having them just mark down in their records that I have a GSD next door to a daycare.... remember, the dog always loses....:frown2::frown2:


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Hmm slight of topic I guess?? But unless McDonald's changed things ...yesterday ... there coffee is still insanely hot!!


Chip - once again - You're great for trying to refresh off topic posts.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Yes ... but back on point ... Ugh ... problem neighbors! The first choice of course is to talk to them. You won't know if they are tools until you talk to them. If that fails then documentation and calling the LE is the next most reasonable course of action. 

You can have the Coyote Rollers and a Hot Wire on the fence as a plan B ... "it's for the dog" of course if you start documenting and Cop calling ... plan B will look pretty thin, in a court of law when/if the kids gets zapped! So yeah ... there is that.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Yes ... but back on point ... Ugh ... problem neighbors! The first choice of course is to talk to them. You won't know if they are tools until you talk to them. If that fails then documentation and calling the LE is the next most reasonable course of action.
> 
> You can have the Coyote Rollers and a Hot Wire on the fence as a plan B ... "it's for the dog" of course if you start documenting and Cop calling ... plan B will look pretty thin, in a court of law when/if the kids gets zapped! So yeah ... there is that.


For gosh sakes Chip - do you read posts you respond to - at all? This is not about a dog that needs Coyote Rollers or a Hot Wire. What planet are you on?


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

This is the carp I'm just so sick of here....

Thank you to all that offered your sincere opinions and read the situation. I will take your recommendations to heart.

I just can't stomach asking for help here anymore and getting pretty every post shut down or diverted by people that use it for amusement in some way.

By - and thanks. It's pretty sad when every posts gets screwed up by the bored, clueless and argumentative.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> For gosh sakes Chip - do you read posts you respond to - at all? This is not about a dog that needs Coyote Rollers or a Hot Wire. What planet are you on?


Hmmm I thought the way Coyotes rollers worked was pretty clear?? They could also keep the kid out! Nothing to with your dog?? I thought that was pretty clear?? Apparently not??


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Easiest solution is to just keep your dog inside when the kids are out there. It sounds like you are getting a "rep" with the clients next door - and from your posts it doesn't sound as though it will get better. LE has better things to do than to chase kids out of trees so go talk to the renters if you don't like the idea of keeping your dog inside when the kids are next door. 

Coyote rollers actually do sound like a good idea but you might get into zoning issues. You certainly will with a make-shift height increase and electric fencing may be illegal in residential settings too.


----------



## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

middleofnowhere said:


> Coyote rollers actually do sound like a good idea but you might get into zoning issues. You certainly will with a make-shift height increase and electric fencing may be illegal in residential settings too.


If you are talking zoning, it may be worth looking into if the "daycare"/free-for-all is licensed (as stated in an above comment). A call to your county would do the trick. If they are not licensed, they probably do not have insurance to have those rugrats, I mean children, in the yard as a business. Or a well placed call to the police as they are trespassing. 

An alternative, pop a sprinkler by the fence, the kind that go up/down, and turn it on. It is a bit "get off my porch" mentality, but in all honesty, you are right, if they fall it could be dire. 

Neighbor issues stink :-(


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

As I explained... my fence is 1.5 feet LOWER than theirs - and the fences are 4 inches apart. Any installation of that type to keep kids from stepping down onto my fence and hitting a coyote roller would send them flying (injured no doubt) directly into my yard. Electric fences are illegal in most cities as they are in mine. 

This is not a situation for either of those. This is not about a dog trying to escape, nor is it a situation about a dog trying to leap a fence.

Read the post. It's about kids on the fence, mine and theirs. 

I am getting no "rep" with the "clients" next door. I talked to 2 kids in 3 weeks. But exaggerate as you must. 

I've always enjoyed the poster that can't be bothered to read a post before they respond. Such a breath of fresh air - from a totally empty, shiny clean head.....


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I seen this anti climb paint in the hardware the other day.

It is bluey black gunky paint that stays wet and gets on peoples hands and clothes if they try to climb something painted with the paint.

It might work to stop kids entering your garden.


----------



## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Stonevintage said:


> Hi, and thanks for your response. My post goes into detail on why I'm reluctant to just go over and talk to them.


You said it appears to be daycare for a couple afternoons. Because of previous tenants you can't go over and speak to the current people. why even ask for opinions on two options and completely dismiss one of them from the start. In any neighborhood being open and friendly is a good way to start. Take cookies and talk to them. I wouldn't have teased your dog but I sure climbed every tree I could as a kid.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Stonevintage said:


> As I explained... my fence is 1.5 feet LOWER than theirs - and the fences are 4 inches apart. Any installation of that type to keep kids from stepping down onto my fence and hitting a coyote roller would send them flying (injured no doubt) directly into my yard. Electric fences are illegal in most cities as they are in mine.
> 
> This is not a situation for either of those. This is not about a dog trying to escape, nor is it a situation about a dog trying to leap a fence.
> 
> ...


 

I would never suggest or look into coyote rollers in this case--that is a disaster waiting to happen. I wouldn't go with anything electrical either. I still thinking talking to them in a friendly, calm, concerning manner is the route to go. Keeping your dog inside while the kids are out is a heck of an inconvenience, but I don't think the dog is the issue here at all.


I kinda like the sticky paint idea, that would be fun to watch


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Like others have said it's a good idea to talk to the lady running the day camp- whether they do something about it or not. I would want to know if the kids were being bratty and doing something dangerous. I would also record the conversation. If anything happens forbidding -at least you notified them and did your part it is a plus on your side. Continue to keep a watch on summer so she is not tormented and putting a sign up, notifying daycare are all things that can be done safely and responsibly on your end.


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I really hope this problem with the kids can be resolved quickly.And I'll also hope for more progress reports on Summer.Our dogs and you and I being so close in age makes for adventures and tribulations I can so relate to


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

dogma13 said:


> I really hope this problem with the kids can be resolved quickly.And I'll also hope for more progress reports on Summer.Our dogs and you and I being so close in age makes for adventures and tribulations I can so relate to


Sorry Dogma, looks like SV got the ban-hammer. 

I would cut back any over hanging branches to the property line. it would at least discourage them from hanging over your property.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Stonevintage said:


> As I explained... my fence is 1.5 feet LOWER than theirs - and the fences are 4 inches apart. Any installation of that type to keep kids from stepping down onto my fence and hitting a coyote roller would send them flying (injured no doubt) directly into my yard. Electric fences are illegal in most cities as they are in mine.
> 
> This is not a situation for either of those. This is not about a dog trying to escape, nor is it a situation about a dog trying to leap a fence.
> 
> ...


Stone - I read the entire thread including your initial post. Just because you don't like what I have to say does not mean that I have not read every word of your initial post. From reading his response, I strongly suspect that the person who first suggested coyote rollers also had read your initial post thoroughly. Perhaps you might consider more carefully reading the responses rather than figuring that we have somehow missed a critical element of your issue.

When one kid knows that you said something to another, the word is getting around and you are getting a "rep" . 

I doubt that LE has time to chastise 10 yo kids from climbing on fences/trees, stepping on your fence, etc. Go talk to the neighbors. (as in the adults in charge).


----------

