# 4 month old german shepherd does not get the hint



## alc31180

Hello all,
I am sure you have received numerous threads about aggressive GSD, so I do apologize if you have read this type already.

My gf and I have a 4 month old GS Pup who although I know loves us, sometimes has random outbursts in which is bites at our legs, and randomly will bite our hands but at the same time bark or growl. He wags his tail in the process, but shows his teeth. We have numerous marks on our arms.

This only happens once or twice a day for about 20 minutes to an hour tops. Then he runs around the house like a mad man and passes out. He receives a numerous amount of exercise, plenty of play time and lots of walks.

Aside from the other 23 hours in the day, he is the best dog ever, listens to every command, loves to learn and loves to play.

We do not wrestle, play tug of war, or play rough with the dog.

I have had dogs in the past and even worked police K9. Never had this problem.

I have spoken to other GS owners of the same age group, who also say this happens to them.

I do not want to grab his scruff or place him on his back, for I heard this can be a negative response to him.

Please help, he is a great dog.



Anthony
NYC


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## Elaine

You have about another two months of this very normal behavior. Your best bet is to redirect him, never scruff or alpha roll him. You need to have a toy in hand at all times so when the little land shark gets close and starts reaching for you, you can shove a toy in his mouth. You will get chewed on as he is just a baby and that's how he's experiencing his world, just like a human child. He will out grow it so long as you can endure.


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## alc31180

As I write this we just had another outburst. I understand he is a puppy. Our deep "NO" or "OW!" has no effect on him. The vet told us to fill a pepsi can with pennies and shake it, and he is not phased by it. Currently he will not stop grabbing for her hands. Putting the toy in his mouth he drops it, and goes right back for the hands, legs and barking / crying. Took him out, repeats itself.

Very frustrating, but understand what comes with it.


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## Castlemaid

Normal play behaviour for a young dog! Called the zoomies.  No reason at all why you can't play tug, and actually, when GSD puppies get bitey like that, the very best thing in the world is to engage them in play. Grab a tug toy and play tug. Have toys and tugs around the house close at hand so you are ready for him. Some people like to carry a small tug in their pockets all the time. Re-direct his biting to the tug. Don't just give him the tug and walk away, play with him, that is a lot more fun! Let him win lots so that he thinks this is the best game in the world, much better than biting at feet and hands. 

It is a common belief that playing tug with a pup and letting him win will encourage aggression and dominance, but actually, it is the opposite. It gives the pup an appropriate outlet for his play-aggression. And a pup this age does not have real aggression, just a lot of energy and zoom. Eventually, after you have redirected a thousand times, pup learns to bring you a tug toy when he wants to play with you, and that is what you want. 

Glad everything else is going great. And very glad that you have enough dog-instinct to know not to scruff him or punish him for being a bit wild! Punishing a pup for wanting to interact and play only confuses them. Up to us to teach them instead appropriate ways to play that won't cause deep scarring on our extremities. (I could show you MY hands!)

Something else you may have noticed, is that puppies this age can get over-tired and act bratty and out-of-control, like an over-tired two year old. I could tell there was a certain desperate intensity in my pup's play when it was due to being over-tired. Usually I would take him out a bit and let him chase a ball or a stick to give him a change of scene and let him calm down, then put him in his crate for a nap. 

Your pup is just adorable, by the way, and you are lucky that he only goes into shark mode about once a day, with some pups, they are like that all the time! They usually outgrow the bitting around six months or so, when they are done teething. I think it is a developmental stage they have to go through. I got a rescue who was about a year old at the time, and I believe she was a tied dog all her young life, and never had much human interaction up 'till then. Well, she mouthed EVERYTHING!!! ALL THE TIME!!! It did eventually stop after MONTHS OF consistent and gentle dissuation, but it wal like a desperate need for her to make up for a puppy-hood she never had. So I believe, as do others, that it is important to let puppies play with biting and tugging, but the trick is to show them what to bite and what to tug.


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## Elaine

This is normal. My arms and legs were scratched up and bleeding for months and my boy ripped up every single pair of my pants while I was wearing them. There were days I found myself sitting on a chair with my legs up and my arms tucked in while the little beast circled looking for some body part to grab. They do get over it. 

You might want to exercise your pup a lot more and do play tug and do play rough with him. Most people have no idea just how much exercise a puppy really needs and most puppies do not get anywhere near enough.


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## Castlemaid

I just saw your other post where he drops the tug. Make the tug active and atractive. Have a bit of a line on it, wave it around to get him to want to chase it. As soon as he grabs it, tug!!! Pretend it is all you can do to hold on to it, that he is too strong for you. Make a bit deal out of letting him win! He will Love it!!! If the tug is dead, or if you overpower him, he won't want to play anymore. 

And if all else fails, another couple of months and the biting will taper down. Then those arms should have a chance to heal up good, LOL!


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## paladin

I have a four month old GSD pup and he is doing the same thing except he has never growled at me. I make sure that when I go outside that I have a ball or other toy with me and play with him. I bought him knuckle bones so he has something to chew on when I am not home as he recently killed the garden hose and a sprinkler. I try to work him out everyday to burn off his excess energy and it's working. He gets his ball or toy so we can play fetch. I will be taking him to a local Shutzhund club to work on obedience and give him another outlet to expend his energy.


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## paladin

I saw your pic and my GSD did the same thing to my daughter and wife. I forgot to mention that I play tug games to and let him chase and bite an old mop. If your GSD pup loves to play fetch use it and give him a workout. This has helped me a lot and its redirecting his play drive.


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## alc31180

I really appreciate all of your replies. He is sleeping now. I kept putting the tug in his mouth over and over again. Tomorrow (prob same time) he will act up, I will try your advice on the rough play and the tug o war. I will allow him to be champ.

Cheers!!!

Anthony


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## GSDSunshine

What are you using as a tug. So me we got a breakthrough when we changed up what type of tug we were using. We bought something like this originally. 










Hw wanted nothing to do with it. We bought a fleecy cleans (he loves soft toys) and we can actually play tug with him now.










I know some people like using something like these.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Welcome to the site and nice to hear there is another HEALTHY normal GSD puppy out there! ALL of us have arms like yours until we TEACH our puppy a new and less painful (for us) way to play.

You need to get tons of tug toys all over your house so he learns to PLAY in the new way we delicate humans need to do. :wub:

And your puppy classes, socialization and off leash hikes/tears in the woods will help.

Have you had a chance to read this sticky yet?

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/85888-teaching-bite-inhibition.html

:wild::wub::wild: Good luck!


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## LaRen616

I didn't know that this was normal GSD behavior?  My GSD never growled or bit at us and I can honestly swear on that. He never showed those signs. He also never chewed a single thing that he wasn't supposed to when he was little. Wow, I never knew how lucky I was until now! My goodness, he was a very good puppy!


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## alc31180

How come on almost every "dog site" they insist not to play rough, or play tug? If anything today he was a good dog and slept most of the day due to the rough playing. He also started to bite softer.


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## lylol

We've all been there.Its normal. I would say all of what you heard already but add, sometimes it is ok - esp if he is just too over the top with excitement to play with the tug or take the offered chew toy...to, without any emotion or negative feedback, just take him to his crate with a good chewie or cookie and give BOTH of you a short time to settle down and regain your perspective. You will forgive that cutie for being such a shark and he will prob come out ready to play and be your buddy again for awhile. Trust us, it does get better... just takes awhile.


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## MaggieRoseLee

alc31180 said:


> How come on almost every "dog site" they insist not to play rough, or play tug? If anything today he was a good dog and slept most of the day due to the rough playing. He also started to bite softer.


Great news! Keep up the good work.......... it takes some time to teach them the new and painfree (for us) way to play. But so worth it in the end!


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## doggiedad

alc31180:

start socializing and training.
how about puppy classes?
do you have a trainer?


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## valreegrl

Sorry to say this OP....but at 9 months we STILL deal with this! 
ALTHOUGH, it isn't as bad. 

What we did is teach the "all done" command. We play and wrestle and tug with the toy and then say "all done". As soon as he stops and relaxes we treat. He doesn't need to sit, just relax. Wait for his body to show the signs. Tail goes down and his body is no longer tense. 
The first couple times we had to endure and wait for it. And as soon as he gives we jackpot with hotdog (his favorite). 
Now, when he hears "all done" he stops and waits for his treat. What I think this command does is snap his brain out of the "zoomies" mode. 

And remember....a tired dog is a good dog. If Timber doesn't get enough exercise this issue comes up more frequently. I like to see him relaxed in the house and if he isn't then he needs to go for a run


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## HeidiW

I have never had this problem with any of my GSD pupies ever, and I always played tug with them, also ran around with a rag for them to chase. Lots of ball toss too. So who ever says don't play with them tug etc I think is so wrong. I have had both showlines and working and one czeck working.


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## LaRen616

*HeidiW*

The same thing here. I always play tug o war with my boy and we never had any of these issues.


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## Kodi

alc31180 said:


> How come on almost every "dog site" they insist not to play rough, or play tug? If anything today he was a good dog and slept most of the day due to the rough playing. He also started to bite softer.


from a great article on 'Pack Structure' in dogs: (sorry it's long but worth the read):

http://judyshealthcafe.com/articles/dogaggression.html

(not sure why the link isn't clickable)


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## Castlemaid

That was an AWESOME article!!! Very well written, good read. Some very sound principles in establishing leadership. But even in a dog pack, puppies have a lot of freedoms and priviledges not bestowed upon older dogs. They pretty much have a "puppy pass" ( I think selzer on this board used that espression), and adult dogs do indulge puppies with play, and do let them chew on them and maul them, do let them win at tug, and do have infinite patience with the little crazy land sharks, and so should we.


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## Kodi

Yes, i should have mentioned - that article is aimed at 6months and up when the puppy will start learning pack rules etc.

4months he's still got a few more uses of that puppy pass


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## nodognolife

My 10 wks bite us so much when she gets excited. My arms are full of cuts and scratches that a doctor even asked if there was any DV going on in my household. 
(of course I said ' yes from my puppy, lol)

We do time-out when she gets too carried away. Or my husband lifts her up, and she doesnt like it so she stops. A dog trainer I am friends with recommended that I freezes a wet cloth soaked in water with a little bit of chicken broth. Or I sometimes give my dog ice cube in return of doing tricks.

I was so concerned about mouthing like you do, but after talking with many people and reading this forum, now I know mouthing is a healthy puppy behavior. I play tug of war, and my dog brings a toy to me when she wants to do it. I dont see any problem of that


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## Hunther's Dad

alc31180 said:


> How come on almost every "dog site" they insist not to play rough, or play tug? If anything today he was a good dog and slept most of the day due to the rough playing. He also started to bite softer.


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## Josiebear

How old was he when you first got him? If you got him under 8 weeks that's the time when the mother dog teaches bite inhibition and learn behaviors from littermates.


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## doggiedad

my GF and i play tug with our dog and we've never had a problem
playing tug.

the first time my dog played tug was with my GF. my GF was in the backyard with our. i was looking out the window at her and the dog.
our dog grabbed a towel off of the cloth line. when my GF went to pick
the towel up our dog held on to it and my GF played tug with him.

well i thought we just created a problem. playing tug with the dog after he pulled the towel off of the cloth line was rewarding him.
i went out and bought some tug toys. when we play tug
i let my dog win a lot. when i let my dog win he'll run off with
the tug shaking it. when i call him he brings the tug back
and drops it at my feet and waits for another round of play.

our dog never pulled anything else off of the cloth line. 


HeidiW said:


> I have never had this problem with any of my GSD pupies ever, and I always played tug with them, also ran around with a rag for them to chase. Lots of ball toss too. So who ever says don't play with them tug etc I think is so wrong. I have had both showlines and working and one czeck working.


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## Korubell

Hi alc, I think I have the matching set of arms which goes with yours. I also have a 4 month old GSD (male) In fact your story sounds just like mine.

I've never had trouble teaching bite inhibition before with GSDs or other breeds, but with this little guy it's darn near impossible. Like you I've tried various things: aversion, diversion, isolation, noises (incl a high pitched personal alarm blast) plus alpha roll and, as directed by the breeder, a pinch to his cheek.

He does it out of excitement/overenthusiam, I'm sure. And often, it's like he must have the last word! He's as sharp as a tack with all other areas of training and behaviour, and has been walking like a prince on his lead since he was 7 weeks old. But this biting thing has me concerned. I know he's young yet and am hoping that teething will help.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Korubell said:


> Hi alc, I think I have the matching set of arms which goes with yours. I also have a 4 month old GSD (male) In fact your story sounds just like mine.
> 
> I've never had trouble teaching bite inhibition before with GSDs or other breeds, but with this little guy it's darn near impossible. Like you I've tried various things: aversion, diversion, isolation, noises (incl a high pitched personal alarm blast) plus alpha roll and, as directed by the breeder, a pinch to his cheek.
> 
> He does it out of excitement/overenthusiam, I'm sure. And often, it's like he must have the last word! He's as sharp as a tack with all other areas of training and behaviour, and has been walking like a prince on his lead since he was 7 weeks old. But this biting thing has me concerned. I know he's young yet and am hoping that teething will help.


I like how Korubell commented how some of these puppies really ARE different from others. You aren't going crazy, they really are over the top when they want to PLAY! 

It just means we need to really step up and learn to TEACH them a new and more appropriate way to play. I can't stress enough, a happy and well behaved puppy tends to be one that has REALLY been exercised during the day.

And you know when you have 'really' exercised them by their behavior. If they are still bouncing off the wall and biting you to play when you get to the house, you did not do enough for THIS puppy at THIS age. I've found the mental AND physical activity of off leash hiking worked best for us. Inviting friends and their dogs made it even better. These were puppies that sleep in the car on the ride home, then sleep in their crate/bed when we get home... No biting there! And a calmer more thinking puppy when they do wake up and want to play.

This is MY puppy at the same age, and we were out of the house for hours.


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## Mrs.K

sounds like my 10 week old. She loves to bite into my naked feet, arms, fingers and I redirect and play tug o war with her.

We went for an hour walk yesterday and every normal puppy would have been exhausted and slept through the night... not this one... she was still bouncing off the walls and bored out of her mind.


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## Castlemaid

Mrs.K said:


> sounds like my 10 week old. She loves to bite into my naked feet, arms, fingers and I redirect and play tug o war with her.
> 
> We went for an hour walk yesterday and every normal puppy would have been exhausted and slept through the night... not this one... she was still bouncing off the walls and bored out of her mind.


And that's how you know you got a GREAT dog with GREAT potential!!! 

Other suggestions to tire out these "super" pups: new environments and new experiences: last night, I took my older dog and my 13 month old to a playground, we were only there for a little over half-an hour, but it was half an hour of exploring the playground equipment, mastering ramps, and ramps with built-in obstacles. Getting up the confidence to cross three different types of swinging bridges (slatted wood, loosely-attached logs, and old tires bolted together), doing obedience on the equipment (this was really confusing for my pup, like a sit and a down up on a wooden platform were just foreign concepts to him, LOL), jumping a series of bicycle racks, learning to climb rocks and old tractor tire play-equipment and stand for a treat My older dog was showing the younger one the ropes for all these games, the young one was very challenged by all the new activities, but very excited to be doing these things. Then off exploring the football fields. 

13 month old WL, had been crated 10 hrs that day - we had 30 min at home of exploring woods (I live in the boonies), then after supper we did the playground. He was EXHAUSTED when we got home, LOL!! He crashed and slept, and I'm getting ready to get him out for half-an hour of fetch before crating him again for the day, and he is STILL tired! I completely blew his brain, and his body was too willing to follow, LOL. 

A lot of young puppies of any age NEED that kind of engagement, mental challenge, and physical excercise. As long as pup is on a soft surface, and can regulate the pace they are comfortable with, don't be afraid to challenge his little mind and his little body. People are attracted to GSDs because they are so smart, but a smart dog needs a lot of human engagement and activity to focus all those smarts into productive behaviours and emotionally satisfying outlets for their energy.


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## milkmoney11

My 9 wk old puppy does the same thing. What I found works GREAT is to say a loud "OUCH!" then walk away for a minute. He usually sits there stunned for a second then looks for another toy. After a minute I'll come back in the room and play until he starts biting at sleeves/my arm/hand and repeat the same thing. It has really cut down on his biting. I actually notice him start to bite at my hand, and then he'll stop. I think he's realizing if he bites, he's going to be ignored, and that is about the worse thing you can do to him.


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## charlie319

Nothing aberrant here. You have a young puppy who has more energy than you know what to do with. I currently have a 5 month old show-line that is teething.

Here's an idea: Make a flirt pole with a Kong on the end. You can use an old but stout fishing pole (a broomstick will work), some Nylon rope and a small kong toy. Your wife or GF can tease the dog while you control it on a 6 foot leash. It will get the pup tired and build prey drive at the same time. Here's a link to a forum where a guy made one: The Flirt Pole just works! - Products & Equipment


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## Korubell

To Maggie, Mrs K and Castlemaid - My little guy has someone home with him all day, so has numerous play sessions in the back yard with tug o' war, fetch and various hide-n-seek games, plus some tutoring thrown in for good measure. He has two 30 minute walks each day and an hour in the evenings, during which he can run, swim, track and play with other dogs and people. Weekends he has two hour-long walks a day with all the above activities included. He adores both water and loose sand and will splash happily for as long as I let him. 

I love the switched-on, 'fully engaged' nature of the GSD, but hadn't encountered one with this biting issue until now. He gets bones, frozen rags and chew toys to gnaw on. It's a relief to hear alc's story (and see the photos, though I know it's a painful experience), I thought it was just me - that I must be doing something wrong with my boy.

Nice to find you guys, btw


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## dak11

Our soon to be 8 month old pup went through exactly what you've described. She eventually has migrated to just mouthing but still occasionally bites our calves and feet or tried to take us down (only way to explain it is she jumps on our lower leg while we're walking away and clamps on a half nelson).

She didn't understand the 'ouch' command until she was closer to 5-6 months and actually got more excited when we did it to her when she was younger.

One thing that helped, and I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned yet, was using bitter apple or fooey (Bella loves Fooey for some reason) to discourage the biting of your hands and arms. We used to apply some on our body when she got a little too aggressive and it worked pretty well. Just make sure you have some available in different parts of the house.


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## Korubell

dak11 said:


> One thing that helped, and I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned yet, was using bitter apple or fooey (Bella loves Fooey for some reason) to discourage the biting of your hands and arms. We used to apply some on our body when she got a little too aggressive and it worked pretty well. Just make sure you have some available in different parts of the house.


Hi Dak, where I am it seems there are no bitter apple products to be had. I did buy two other sprays designed to stop dogs chewing things and sprayed myself liberally. The first few times he hated it, his hackles rose, he snarled and growled like Cujo and stood with his head down, glaring at me. When I use the sprays now he just backs off for a while (about 2 minutes) till the spray dries then comes in for another munch on my arms. Now that I've found other owners with this problem I just take a new view: "He loves me so much he wants to maim me". I think I can can live with it a while longer.


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## patti

I am so glad to have found this forum today! I also have a male 4 mo. old GSD which is behaving exactly the same. I have read that we shouldn't tug with him, or any hard play games, so we have been at a loss. Thank you so much!


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## MaggieRoseLee

patti said:


> I am so glad to have found this forum today! I also have a male 4 mo. old GSD which is behaving exactly the same. I have read that we shouldn't tug with him, or any hard play games, so we have been at a loss. Thank you so much!


Tug and play away! As long as there are YOUR rules there's no problem.


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## dak11

Korubell said:


> Hi Dak, where I am it seems there are no bitter apple products to be had. I did buy two other sprays designed to stop dogs chewing things and sprayed myself liberally. The first few times he hated it, his hackles rose, he snarled and growled like Cujo and stood with his head down, glaring at me. When I use the sprays now he just backs off for a while (about 2 minutes) till the spray dries then comes in for another munch on my arms. Now that I've found other owners with this problem I just take a new view: "He loves me so much he wants to maim me". I think I can can live with it a while longer.


Walmart.com: Bitter Apple Spray, 8 oz: Dogs


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## Okotete Walter

I have a 4 months old German Shepherd, she likes playing too much and I want her to be aggressive. What do I do??


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## scarfish

Okotete Walter said:


> I have a 4 months old German Shepherd, she likes playing too much and I want her to be aggressive. What do I do??


wow, nobody wants their dog to be aggressive. this thread is 7 years old. you might want to start a new thread in the welcome section. might have to wait for a mod to approve it, the rules changed. welcome and share pics.


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## scarfish

i am actually hoping you mean a personal protection dog. that takes a specific drive that none of my pet line GSDs would've passed an initial evaluation by a good trainer. training is intense and takes a lot of time and money. nobody wants an overall aggressive dog that wants to just kill everything all the time. you will end up with lawsuits and your dog will be put down eventually. maybe you can reword a little, this is a great place for getting info on raising your friendly pup.


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## Galathiel

Maybe start your own thread and not use one that is almost 7 years old will mean you get more responses.


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## I~Luv~Maggie

He is in his puppy bite stage most likely. Its very normal, just don't reinforce it and he should grow out of it.


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