# Disclosure / What do you share?



## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

Our rescue practices full discloser on what we know about our dogs. As we all know, failure to do so will only result in the dog being returned to you.

That said here is my current situation.
I just got a dog returned that I adopted out as a puppy.
He is now almost three. He was raised with dogs, cats, kids, and is a fantastic dog.

The owners live rural, had a cat deliver kittens in the house.
They left the GSD alone in the house with the new born kittens, and you can guess what happened. He did not eat them, but "played" with them, resulting in the death of the kittens.

I got a call that said come get this dog, or my husband is going to kill it. I, of course ran to get my dog. 

He is 100% perfect in all ways. Loves people, kids, re-cat tested him with a cat he did not know, and he passed with flying colors, does well with dogs, house trained, I could go on and on. 

He is an easy dog and could go into any home. We have had several inquiries, I tell the potential adopters about him and they are so excited to meet him. When they ask why he was placed into rescue and I tell the story as gently as I can, they have all changed their mind. 

So my question is 1) would you as adoption agencies leave that information out since he is cat friendly and the owner made a bad decision leaving them alone together? And 2) from the adopters side would you be upset if you later found out that this information was not disclosed.

I hate to sit on a fantastic dog because he "killed" something, as it appears he was not focused on the kill, but used the kittens as toys.

Thanks for your imput


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

I would still disclose it. And I would continue to tell people that he is not a killer...and it was done in play...with kittens that way too small and shouldn't have been left alone with him. Do you have cats that you can SHOW adopters how good he is with cats?


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

I totally agree with myamom. You'll eventually find the right home for him. Showing him with a cat would be a positive step. It's likely to be an experienced GSD home who eventually takes him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I agree too. Any home that turns him down because of it is not the right home anyways.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

it was disclosed to me why my rescue was turned in, that being, I am super careful in one area. I am very diligent. 
If he was rased with cats, well, newborn kittens should not have been around him, just how tiny they are and how huge he was, who knows what happened?
I always left my Sashi (90#) and older kitty together alone but she could handle him. she was alpha. newborn kittens arent in control of anything. I would blame the people for not having them in a SECURE place. Im just wondering where the Mother cat was, they can be pretty fierce.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I would disclose it. Personally, as a cat lover I'm a little surprised that people are so put off by what he did that they wouldn't even consider adopting him over it. This dog has been fine with cats for almost 3 years, and the people who left the dog unsupervised with tiny kittens made a stupid mistake, it was not the dog's fault. I don't leave my dogs alone with my cats when I'm not home, and they were raised with dogs and quite capable of taking care of themselves or retreating to their room, which is protected by a baby gate. They would probably be fine, but I'm not taking any chances. 

I can understand why the owners don't want the dog around anymore. Anyone with good sense should know to take reasonable precautions with a large dog and newborn kittens, but just in case, a potential adopter should know that this happened so they don't make the same mistake. It may take longer to find him a home, but how would you feel if it happened again because it didn't occur to someone that he might be too rough with a kitten, even though he's fine with adult cats?


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## lauramichelle (Mar 11, 2009)

I would still tell potential adopters.

But if I were adopting...that would not change my mind about the dog. For one...my cat is fixed...no chance of kittens....a momma cat could kill a kitten by laying on it....and it only takes a little common sense to know not to leave a huge dog alone with teeny tiny kittens. 

My beagle used to dig up and kill moles....would I call her a killer....NO. She never went after a cat, left our chickens alone......but she was a hunting breed...so hunting a mole was in her nature. This dog was just trying to play and didnt understand the size differnce. 

Even momma dogs can kill their own puppies just by sitting on them because they are so much bigger.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

Disclosing the information will give you a good measure of the adoptive family - by their reaction. If they realise it is not the dog's fault, you will know they are likely to be an understanding and responsible home.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

I have to say when I first read your post my first thought was "NO", why should you tell something totally wrong that the previous owners did wrong...not the dog. 

Then they get rid of the dog? Idoits!!! 

I would not leave knew born kittens alone with my kids, let alone my dogs, any breed. 

But the other posters on this thread, probably know better than I do...and you would probably sleep better knowing you did the right thing and told the whole story. They are also right that a good home would take the dog anyway, KNOWING the previous owners were knuckle heads!!


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I would disclose it. Gosh, my Jackson is great with other animals, even cats, but even he would be hard pressed not to react to all that newborn smell. 
Hey, Paula, on an unrelated topic... how close are you to Troutdale, Oregon?
Sheilah


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

I would disclose it all, for all the reasons people have already mentioned.

I just want to add that I never understand how people get sooo put off by an animal following insticts and playing with or killing prey...(I know that wasn't the instance in this case, it was more of a too rough play). This sounds like a case of a dog playing with something that was just too small to play...but it could also have been a prey kill, kittens screamed and squirmed and he grabbed and shook. That doesn't make a killer, that makes a dog with natural instincts. What about turning it around and what if a cat killed a bird that got in the house or a household pet bird who got out of its cage. It would be sad, I love birds, but no one would bat an eye because cats do that, they have insticts to kill prey items..if a cat killed a mouse in the house they wouldn't throw the cat away and call it a killer. But if a dog hurts a cat then label it a killer and throw it away??

I just don't get that thinking. I have seen my dog grab a bird in midflight and find a baby squirrel and kill it, but I have also seen her let a kitten play with her tail, knead on her bad and lick them clean. She isn't a killer, she is a dog with natural instincts.


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## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

Thanks for all the input.
My gut was to keep mentioning it.

I guess I really need to think of the softest wording while explaining the situation.
If you could hear / see the change in people once you mention what happened. They get freaked. I think people that know dogs get it, so we will keep looking until we find a person like me that said "and"? 
I do not know what the owner was thinking when she left them alone?

Sheilah, I am about an hour and a half away. Is there a dog at Multnomah County?

One of our board members has a 5 month old kitten that I tested him with yesterday. He was kissing her, and she was chasing him. I will see if I can do any potential meets with her present. That just might help. Thank you for the suggestion.

I wish I could keep this dog. I have to say the owners did a great job raising him. He has no issues other than the kitten thing. He went to the cemetery today with my family and just sat by our sides as we cleaned up the headstones for Memorial Day.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Paula I would disclose it.

For people that truly understand GSD's it isn't a problem. I will give you an example, when I went to go pick up my one female (from owner not a rescue) he got her out of her kennel and she immediatly went over by the Chicken pen and there was one bird out. Oh to say that she was having a blast would have been the under statement, plus the fact that the owner was trying to catch her. He got her with the chicken in her mouth, get got the chicken away from her no damage to the chicken. Set her back down, tried to grab the chicken but he wasn't quick enough the young GSD got it first. Finally the chicken was retruned to the pen unharmed (well minus a few feathers). I didn't change my mind about the purchase.

Baby kittens are fragil and shouldn't be left where any dog or adult cat other than momma can get to them.

Val


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## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

Here is a photo of Strom, the offender.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Poor Storm. He is a real looker, isn't he. Paula, I PM'ed you.
Sheilah


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

Oh Paula, I am so sorry this happened. The same thing happened to a co-worker of mine. A cat she adopted had a litter of kittens right after she adopted her. She only put up a baby gate to keep them apart when she left for 10 hours to go to work. She came home to a litter of dead kittens. This dog lived with over 20 cats in perfect harmony for years before this happened. She was devastated. 

The right folks for Storm will understand.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

In defence of the adopter, it could well be that even if they can rationally get their head around the fact that Storm was being a dog, if they loved those kittens, his presence might well be a constant reminder of the incident. So rehoming him is probably right in this case, and you will find the perfect family for him who will understand.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

How about taking a video of him with the 5 mo kitten? How about putting a clause in your contract or a handout that a mature animal should not be left alone with newborn animals? Your explanation can be that they have a tendency to play with young animals to the young animals' detriment. Barker the younger occassionally got to young birds before I did. One playfully placed paw ended the pre-fledgling's life.


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## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

DD,
I am so happy that the adopters called me.
It is a time that the return policy worked.
I would have hated for this wonderful dog to have gotten shot over this.

These people have children, so I am sure it was a very horrific situation to come home to.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Paula - there's a reason I never left Dante alone with LBK (Little Boy Kitten) when he was dumped in my yard. I'm not sure Dante would have known the difference between a toy and that little bundle of grey fur.
I hope his perfect home comes soon, he's a looker for sure!!!

LBK in case anyone has forgotten (I did love that little guy in the short time he was here!)


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

Yup, I would disclose and let the potential adopters reactions be part of your evaluation.

We've had something similar happen. When BF and I first moved into our house, we brought 3 cats and Dieter. We had a roomie at the time as well who had a husky. The husky had been around cats before and had lived with them just fine. Well, in the year that Goofy was with us, he killed 2 of the 3 cats. We know it wasn't aggression - it was a husky, being a husky and his prey drive kicked in. Now, it was hard for me to pet him and be loving with him while we were still grieving, but intellectually we understood the situation.

We just rescued a 4 week old kitten 2 days ago (BF found her running beside the road!). No momma or litter mates to be found. Now, Dieter loves her and is super gentle with her, but we aren't taking any chances because she is just so tiny and delicate. If we aren't directly observing the baby, she is locked in our bedroom so that nothing happens accidentally.


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## girlll_face (Jun 9, 2009)

I'd say something like this;
"We have a wonderful and beautiful male GSD for adoption. He's GREAT with other dogs, cats, and even children. His past home didn't want to keep him anymore, because while he was buds and played with the adult cats, he didn't realize he couldn't play with their newborn kittens. And the family didn't take the necessary precautions in separating and protecting the defenseless kittens, so he tried to play with them, and it resulted in their death. Kittens are very fragile, and should always have a safe, enclosed nest, and this family failed miserably to provide that. I do not see this as intentional, because this dog is great with cats, even adolescent kittens, and lived with them for 3 years without incident. He just doesn't know his own strength, and didn't realize he couldn't treat THESE kittens the same as the others. Here, I'll show you how well behaved he is with cats..."

I'm the most intense cat lover in the world, literally, and even I wouldn't hold that against the dog. It pisses me off, GREATLY, and it upsets me, but I just think about those ignorant people and how it IS their fault. 100% on them. I hope you find him the right home, he's beautiful. I'd love to have a dog that wouldn't terrorize my cats! *coughBELLAcough* Haha. That puppy...I swear!


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## girlll_face (Jun 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.Paula - there's a reason I never left Dante alone with LBK (Little Boy Kitten) when he was dumped in my yard. I'm not sure Dante would have known the difference between a toy and that little bundle of grey fur.
> I hope his perfect home comes soon, he's a looker for sure!!!
> 
> LBK in case anyone has forgotten (I did love that little guy in the short time he was here!)


OMG, that kitten is SO precious!! What happened to him?


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## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

Since this has popped up again I wanted to share that Strom has found a new home. The new adopter fully understands what happended and is fine with it. Stom is happy and loves his new home.

By the way, it is with me.
I adored this dog as a pup, and we hit it off again. I could not let him go. I know he will take the place of a GSD that needs fostering, but this time I am only thinking of myself, and how much I love this dog.

Whoo Hoo for me!!!!


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## SeriousConfusion (Aug 2, 2006)

What a great ending. He is a looker for sure.


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

Oh Paula - what wonderful news! Your post brought tears to my eyes... Thank goodness he's now found his real forever home!


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

Oh Paula - good for you! Rescue folks are entitled to think of themselves every once in a while! Congratulations!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Awesome! 



> Originally Posted By: RemoRescue folks are entitled to think of themselves every once in a while!


I totally agree!


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## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

Good for you! Whatever is meant to be will happen, it took three years in your case. He's back in your life for a reason so enjoy!


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

As a rescue foster and a ome inspetion person I disclose everything. At times it is difficult, becuse a dog tha di something wrong, might be good in all other situations.

I am not an insurance concern person, but everything regarding a rescue's behavior should be disclosed.


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