# European Show line or Working line?



## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

I want a dog for Schutzhund in the future, and I just wanted to get an early understanding of the differences between the two lines. (I love dark sables & black and reds) 

-I know working lines are best for Schutzhund. They have very high energy and drive. 
-Show lines are also high energy, but I have heard that it is less than the working lines. 

I want a dog that has the energy and drive for Schutzhund, but isn't extremely "high-strung". 
I would appreciate it if people who have had either of these lines would tell me about their dogs.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I have a working line. He was bred purposely to be balanced and have control of his drives. Over-the-top drives where a dog cannot turn off and relax is not correct temperament, and not correct to say that working lines are all like that. I got my dog specifically for Schutzhund, but he is first and foremost a house pet. He gets between one and three hours of exercise a day, depending on the day, broken up into walks, games of fetch, and adventures exploring new places and getting chased by Keeta. I can also wimp out and not exercise or walk him for a day or two, and he is fine with that too. 

He is very mellow in the house, can be off leash most anywhere, turns on the drive when working or playing fetch, turns it off when just hanging out. We can be standing around, and he will not react to cats running by, birds flying over, or bikes or snowmobiles zooming by. 

He has a natural, calm, deep bite: an important aspect for Schutzhund work - the bite is genetic, though it can be trained to some level.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> I have a working line. He was bred purposely to be balanced and have control of his drives. Over-the-top drives where a dog cannot turn off and relax is not correct temperament, and not correct to say that working lines are all like that. I got my dog specifically for Schutzhund, but he is first and foremost a house pet. He gets between one and three hours of exercise a day, depending on the day, broken up into walks, games of fetch, and adventures exploring new places and getting chased by Keeta. I can also wimp out and not exercise or walk him for a day or two, and he is fine with that too.
> 
> He is very mellow in the house, can be off leash most anywhere, turns on the drive when working or playing fetch, turns it off when just hanging out. We can be standing around, and he will not react to cats running by, birds flying over, or bikes or snowmobiles zooming by.
> 
> He has a natural, calm, deep bite: an important aspect for Schutzhund work - the bite is genetic, though it can be trained to some level.


This sounds perfect for me. I have always admired German show lines because of their black and red coats, but the Schutzhund club I visit regularly has all working line dogs. They are absolutely beautiful! I love the sables the most. They seem to be well mannered and focused on training. 
I plan on being very active with my working line dog; going on hikes, camping trips, and Schutzhund training, but I would also like to be able to relax with him. 
Thank you for your reply!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Want some practice? You can come be active with my working line dog. I'm trying to get taxes done and he's not working at all. Come to think of it he's never worked a day in his life. . . just makes more work for me. :wild:


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Energy, drive, and nerve ("high strung") are all different things. The right combination makes a great dog regardless of line. If you are planning on doing SchH, I would shop working lines because in general, working line breeders are more practiced and dedicated to preserving proper working temperament. I have both working and German show line and have been around many of both, and believe me some show lines are as energetic and high strung as any working line! Since you are already going to a club that is a great place to start. Decide which dogs you like and ask around about where those dogs are from and what their lineage looks like.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

If your goal is to do SchH/IPO than your best bet is to go with working lines. I am going to generalize, but you will find that they are easier to train and have more love for the work (of course there are exceptions in all lines). If your goal is to play at SchH/IPO, but you mainly want just a nice pet than either line will suffice. Just make sure you go to a breeder that actually gets out there and works and titles their own dogs. They will usually have a much better understanding of what is needed than someone who buys previously titled stock or sends their animals off for titling.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would also go with a WL, especially if this will be your first dog to work in IPO. SL's take more to bring more for the most part. And not all SL's are cut out for it genetically. I've seen more wash out in the protection phase than not. Not bashing SL's at all, but just what I've seen in my _limited_ experiences.
As far as the 'high' energy...I'd rather have a dog with balanced drives and you can find that in both. Look at what the breeder is producing though, because you can get a dog with too much/too little of one thing as well!


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Liesje said:


> Energy, drive, and nerve ("high strung") are all different things. The right combination makes a great dog regardless of line. If you are planning on doing SchH, I would shop working lines because in general, working line breeders are more practiced and dedicated to preserving proper working temperament. I have both working and German show line and have been around many of both, and believe me some show lines are as energetic and high strung as any working line! Since you are already going to a club that is a great place to start. Decide which dogs you like and ask around about where those dogs are from and what their lineage looks like.


I haven't been around show lines, only working lines, and the Schutzhund club I attend has really gotten me to like working lines. I have also noticed differences in each working line dog at the club; one dark sable seems very calm with a lower energy level than the other dogs, a light red sable seems to have a lot of energy and couldn't seem to keep her focus on her handler for long (but she also looked fairly young), and a bi-colored Shepherd seemed to have the perfect amount of energy and focus. Then again, all dogs are different. 
Either way, I think I am set on getting a working line GSD.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

A fellow member of our PSA club just imported a bitch from Europe, paid a pretty penny for that girl, apparently both parents have KNPV titles which is apparently rare.... (I have no idea about WL at all). I cannot wait to see what she will produce. This workingline got me very excited, although I am not in the market for a pup.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I would also go with a WL, especially if this will be your first dog to work in IPO. SL's take more to bring more for the most part. And not all SL's are cut out for it genetically. I've seen more wash out in the protection phase than not. Not bashing SL's at all, but just what I've seen in my _limited_ experiences.
> As far as the 'high' energy...I'd rather have a dog with balanced drives and you can find that in both. Look at what the breeder is producing though, because you can get a dog with too much/too little of one thing as well!


Well, I am considering doing Schutzhund with my current American GSD. He is not exactly what clubs are looking for, and I am not even hoping that he will pass his BH, I just want the experience for the future. My dog has a low drive (but he loves fetch) and he is scared of people and loud noises (which is typical for American GSDs, sadly). I've taken him to the club I go to and I am going to see if they would be ok with us training there. 
The working lines I've seeen seem to have balanced drives. They have a good drive and are active, yet not extremely "nervey".


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

lhczth said:


> If your goal is to do SchH/IPO than your best bet is to go with working lines. I am going to generalize, but you will find that they are easier to train and have more love for the work (of course there are exceptions in all lines). If your goal is to play at SchH/IPO, but you mainly want just a nice pet than either line will suffice. Just make sure you go to a breeder that actually gets out there and works and titles their own dogs. They will usually have a much better understanding of what is needed than someone who buys previously titled stock or sends their animals off for titling.


The working lines definately seem the best for the sport. I will talk to breeders about their working line dogs, and I will also talk to the members in the Schutzhund club and ask about the breeders of their dogs, just to get a better idea.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

My suggestion is attend the club more and train with them (doesn't matter that your dog won't excel in it). Go to trials just to watch and see what dogs you like. Ask people where they got their dog and research those lines. Forget about generalizing working/show lines. Although this will give you some idea of what the dog is able to do, a good German show line can do Schutzhund also. All dogs bred in Germany have at least a SchH1 on them.

I don't do Schutzhund, but I'm in a GSD club, I have already figured out the female I want my next puppy from (she does SchH). It's crazy how as soon as you get into the training you quickly realize what dogs are good and what are bad. You'll figure out what you want in a dog and look for that. Until you have that experience I don't think anyone here can really tell you what to look for.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think it depends on the club or trial affiliation as well as far as observing...WDA clubs are most often the SL crowd and the USA are predominately WL's. Some people don't know what they won't see if they stay with just one particular group. I'd go to both so you can see the training, and how the dogs are being worked(is the same type training being done?)


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I think it depends on the club or trial affiliation as well as far as observing...WDA clubs are most often the SL crowd and the USA are predominately WL's. Some people don't know what they won't see if they stay with just one particular group. I'd go to both so you can see the training, and how the dogs are being worked(is the same type training being done?)


I have already talked to the Schutzhund trainer at my club, and he doesn't suggest that I train him. He said he would love for me to train with one of the members' older retired dogs. 
I am officially set on getting a working line dog. I have seen them work, and am very impressed with their focus, drive, and structure. The club members who own Shepherds (one woman with show line and working line dogs) also suggest that I get a working line.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

martemchik said:


> My suggestion is attend the club more and train with them (doesn't matter that your dog won't excel in it). Go to trials just to watch and see what dogs you like. Ask people where they got their dog and research those lines. Forget about generalizing working/show lines. Although this will give you some idea of what the dog is able to do, a good German show line can do Schutzhund also. All dogs bred in Germany have at least a SchH1 on them.
> 
> I don't do Schutzhund, but I'm in a GSD club, I have already figured out the female I want my next puppy from (she does SchH). It's crazy how as soon as you get into the training you quickly realize what dogs are good and what are bad. You'll figure out what you want in a dog and look for that. Until you have that experience I don't think anyone here can really tell you what to look for.


The club trainer did tell me that I could train with an older retired dog. And a few of the members offered to give me their dogs breeders names, so that I know the breeder is reliable.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I have a working/show cross and I have struggled with drive/focus for a long time. I have come to understand how my dog works and it has improved a lot over the last year or so (working with great trainers!) but we still struggle a bit at times.

I brought home a working lined girl (1/2 Czech, 1/4 DDR, 1/4 WG working) and from the moment she was born she was READY TO GO!  She has natural focus, amazing drive in all respects and is low threshold for prey which makes training a breeze! I have only just started her heel work (she will be a year old next week) and after only 2-3 times working on this she is already heeling nicer than my male! She LIVES to work and actually ENJOYS working! 

I would definitely go with a working line.


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