# Aggresive female not GSD



## ebethe (Dec 25, 2016)

My female boxer, Par (German line) age 6 is a fairly typical boxer, but more reserved and definitely more alert than an American boxer. My GSD is male 4 months named Rocky. We got Rocky at 7 weeks and my female boxer mothered him and taught him even to the point that he boxes in play with her! They play and 99% of the time are best friends. An FYI, Rocky is now longer and and the same height as Par, but Par still out weighs him (but not for long). There has been 2 incidents where Rocky will attempt to take take a bone from her or just be generally annoying and normally she will allow it, now she takes him down. No blood, but definite crying like he is being murdered. She did not give any warning, no hackles up, no growl, just literally threw herself on him with fierce growling and biting. Is this Par trying to teach Rocky some manners? What should my reaction be. We at this point scolding the boxer and pull her off and this is not an easy task. I want to catch this in the bud before it escalates. We only allow them together when closely supervised by husband or myself. I am a first time GSD owner, but have had dogs all my life. My GSD, will be going for training 1st week of August, right now I am training--he does a good sit, stay, come, down and heel, but like I said he is not the problem. I am thinking of having the boxer go through some training also at the same time. Par has other doggie friends--her bestie is a male Pit Bull belonging to my daughter. Her only other aggressive act was when she pinned two workman against a door when they entered my house and I was in the shower. She did not bite, but did not allow them to move. She backed off when I came into the room and told her it was okay. I thought that was being a very good girl. In this case is this just her being "mom" or do I have something more critical on my hands. Suggestions?


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I think that your gsd puppy has outgrown his puppy license so your adult boxer is no longer tolerant of his actions. Since the incident happened over a bone, keeping them separated when they are eating or chewing on a bone would prevent it from happening.

Chip18 is the boxer expert and he also has a gsd. Hopefully he'll post on your thread or if you have enough posts you can send him a PM. There is also a boxer forum that he is also a member of. He refers to it in this post:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...will-become-dog-aggressive-2.html#post8496601


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Sounds way overboard for a mere lesson teaching... agreed puppy license is gone. Your job to keep annoying puppy away during these pestering times. Putting a pup in its place is a perk that some dogs are able to appropriately provide, but not their responsibility.

Training with the Boxer can't hurt whether you go the professional route or just spending time and working with her away from rocky.

Cornering workers is not related and if she doesn't have aggressive tendencies with other dogs then, to me, there doesn't sound like a reason to be alarmed.


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## ebethe (Dec 25, 2016)

Thanks so much for your comments. The boxer will be going to training with Rocky. I will discuss this with the trainer. We are very careful with these guys now and only allow them together under direct supervision. Rocky is a pest and I am sure Miss Par has lost her patience. She loves to play with him, but she reaches a point that she loses her temper. Hubby also feels it can be jealousy and he could be right about that so Rocky gets no additional attention and Par always gets her treats first. Tonight they played together and their was no problem . . . hopefully this continues.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hmm ... sounds like a full Euro??? Or as I term them a "WL GSD in a Boxer suit." 

Two incidents inside of seven months??? With my little old 65 lb all American Boxer girl ... I had two incidents in 8 "Years!" She went after my American Band Dawg twice ... once over a Pig Ear ... a friend had been watching my dogs over the weekend, and I don't think he fed them??? And the second time over baby kittens being born ... Struddell felt Gunther Band Dawg ... should have been more respect! And she flew over me to put him (Gunther) in his place, I'd never seen such speed and fury cut loose!!! 

I'm pretty much well experienced in loose dog counters/defense (18 times now) ... but I'd "never seen anything like that before" Struddell was just flat gone! I had to literally grab her off of Gunther (Who was trying to get the **** out of Dodge!) Hug her tight so I would not get bit and lay on her for five minuets till she chilled the heck out ... cause she was flat "GONE!" When I finally let her go ... she pops up and it was like ... "hey Dad ... what's up!" 

Good times good times but nonetheless, ... I luv the girls. But so you know ... if you already have another female dog in the home and no issues?? Well your doing good ... because Boxer rescue policy is "no Female Boxers in homes that already have a female a female Boxer, other breed of dog "maybe" depends on the owners! 


Female Boxers ... are simply not the same as the males. It sounds like you managed to skate thus far. But now ... you've added a new dynamic ... and the GSD ... I'd say based on my experience on ... that you have about seven months to get your act together before your GSD decides ... that he's not gonna take this crap anymore ... "Rank Drive Issues" ... in layman terms ... "Who's the top dog here??" 

If that happens it will most likely mean, Vet visits for the dogs and a trip to the "ER" for the intervening owner?? So ... yeah ... I'd be "concerned."

At the heart of your issues ... is a "lack of structure " in the home and ironically enough, as I've seen over the years ... that seems to be fairly common among "bully" owners??? 

Things sail along just fine for years and then Bully owners add a "GSD" and chaos ensues, happens all the time?? You can get a trainer for her/them if you chose but that is not going to change how you live with them??? You need to make better choices for them in your home.

You already apparently know that treats can be an issue, so you know ... don't do that. I'll not say stop giving treats but they do need to more structured. Enforce space with treats period! And I'm gonna guess all the dogs in the house are free roaming?? That was fine before but now ... maybe not so much???

Another thing that is most likely news to you ... is two dogs are a pair ... three dogs are a pack??? Leerburg | Introducing a New Dog into a Home with Other Dogs 

That's a lot of words ... but I can make it simple ... you can't control a dog if you don't where you are they are or what they are doing (indoors.) Train Place and institute a "No free Roaming in the house policy! Indoors the dogs should be in "Place" or in "Crates" period, if that is done then neither dogs is getting in either dogs, face ... so there are no "conflicts" to be broken up ... end of story! 

And I'm gonna guess that with three dogs ... not much time is being spent "walking one on one with your Boxer now?? If so that is mistake number two dogs ... two dogs are twice as much work, weekly one on one walks separately and together. Train Place do Sit on the Dog with the new puppy and the Boxer you've have had for six years ... you did not "need" to do that in the past ... but you need to do it now! And indoors keep her off the furniture (and assumption on my part) and keep a drag leash on her indoors a short leash with no handle to get caught, up on furniture for use indoors, so you don't have to be laying hands on her, ... if there is an issue?? 

The very long detailed story on structure in the home is here.:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7837361-post12.html

But the simplified version ... is walk your dog, no free roaming indoors, train Place, do Sit on the dog and stop making poor choices in regards to giving of treats.

And just to stress the "Place" thing ... all you need to know is here ... :
Fearful, Anxious or Flat Crazy "The Place CommanD - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

You should also consider joining Boxerforum ... we don't really have a forum dictated to a "Aggression Issues" there as such ... "Boxers" with aggression issues are maybe a couple times a year by and large?? I've met many Boxers myself and worked with several ... always males ... sigh, the girls are the real challenges. 

I've only met one Boxer that you would not want to meet at a Dog Park or a "Is your dog Friendly" street hook up ... I don't do either but ... sure enough that "Boxer" was a Female ... American Line by the way. She was safely behind a fence and her owners straining on leash and she was staring at Rocky my GSD ...112 lbs ... like he was raw meat! I was stunned ... apparently not all Boxers ... were like my Baby girl ... luv'd anything with legs.  

Welcome aboard.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

The only thing that sounds overboard to me is his reaction, but he is still young so his reaction is not unusual.

Think of it this way, she is fully capable of harm if she were truly trying, she is holding back because she is only trying to scare him. He has already had warnings and he knows what he should do, so when he knowingly invades her space she reacts.

I've never harshly corrected pinning when the pinned dog was invasive or disrespectful, I will tell them both no after I pull them apart but try not to treat it like a truly vicious fight, because that will keep them in fight mode. So far no injuries and disrespectful dog learns to give the elder dog space.

This happened when I brought an 8 month old Pyrenees pup home, she got deer guts she was not supposed to and as my Shepherd walked by not even attempting to steal it she launched at him with little to no warning, he pinned her, she backed off then after a few seconds launched at him again, he pinned her again and they had ZERO issues after that. They gave each other space for awhile then learned to trust each other and even shared toys and food after that.

It can be hard to tell if she's really hurting him though, considering his reaction. Is it hard to get her off because she is gripping? Does she just over power you? If she is gripping try a nylon break stick, I got one from Stillwater kennel supply and it's great quality, gets grippers under control pretty quickly with no damage to their mouth. If she is over powering you I suggest getting a wide collar with a handle, a tough harness with a handle would help too. The collar with the handle also helps use the parting stick more efficiently.

Here's a collar that might help you gain control: Extra Durable 2 Ply Leather Dog Collar with Handle

It's crucial you keep your calm when this happens, don't hit her because often with these hard headed working breeds it only intensifies the situation. Yelling will usually have no effect, especially if the dog being attacked is screaming, the attacker will likely not even hear you.


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## ebethe (Dec 25, 2016)

Thanks for your reply Chip 18. Par my boxer is a she demon about 1% of the time, but when she is she is a boxer with a mission . . . thankfully she is playful mostly. We are now giving treats only in their separate crates. We have removed all toys except when the pups are separated, but they do like to play together. We let them play supervised with the rope and long sticks , but the bones are off limits unless separated. Rocky is only 17 weeks old btw not 7 months. A big pup, but still very gangly and pup-like. They both seem to like each other a lot and want to be together--We are working on the sit on the dog with the GSD as well as the Boxer. They both have a decent stay, but not for any significant length of time. Love them both and sure want them to get along.


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## ebethe (Dec 25, 2016)

Dracovich: Thanks for your reply and info. Par has never caused any damage and I am sure she can. In fact, she has never really gripped. At least not when we pull them apart. Rocky is usually very respectful for about a day and then goes back to his antics. With the bone (not treats--a hoof or a hard bone) we have removed them. We do let them play supervised with ropes and a long plastic stick which they pull on together. In fact the Boxer initiates the game by going to Rocky with the rope dangling and puts it to his face--game on! They both with do this for hours until they collapse in a happy pile together. They do get a long except for these incidents. We are ordering the collar for the Boxer today--it looks like a handy way to separate. We also put a shock collar on the boxer--no need to use, just being on her keeps her very behaved. Not sure if it is a good idea, but it also works.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

ebethe said:


> Thanks for your reply Chip 18. Par my boxer is a she demon about 1% of the time, but when she is she is a boxer with a mission . . . thankfully she is playful mostly. We are now giving treats only in their separate crates. We have removed all toys except when the pups are separated, but they do like to play together. We let them play supervised with the rope and long sticks , but the bones are off limits unless separated. Rocky is only 17 weeks old btw not 7 months. A big pup, but still very gangly and pup-like. They both seem to like each other a lot and want to be together--We are working on the sit on the dog with the GSD as well as the Boxer. They both have a decent stay, but not for any significant length of time. Love them both and sure want them to get along.


It happened 1. Over a treat. And 2. Because he was being a jerk. So your job is to watch him it seems like. You don't need to "sit on the dog". He's a puppy. 
Separate exercise and together exercise goes a long way. Same as training. Separate and together.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

My personal policy is: if the puppy is antagonizing an adult to the point they are gonna get whupped for it (by the older dog)...I either deal with the puppy myself if I think the adult won't be fair OR if the adult is fair and the puppy doesn't heed the warning.

I can't trust my female to be fair so I NEVER let my puppy try to take something from her. My old male I could trust and I did let him do some disciplining. But the male was usually the one where the pup would keep pestering him so I would let the old guy warn him and if the puppy did not comply, I would make the puppy comply.

Basically, I try to enforce fairness for everyone. Not every adult is going to handle a puppy right...it isn't THEIR puppy after all.

I even went so far as to teach my pup to come to me if my old bitch steals from him and he does it to this day, even to the point of coming to the door if they are out in the yard alone together, if his face pops up at the door it means she has stolen all the toys and won't let him play because she is like that. I will drop everything and go settle it because if he tries, she will bite him and put a hole in him. I have tried hard to teach the boy he doesn't deal with her : *I* deal with her.


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## ebethe (Dec 25, 2016)

Never thought of that Cowboysgirl. Good idea .. . . putting it on my list. Hubby and I have been extremely strict and I have read this information to him and we are both on the same page. That in itself will be helpful. Par has been on good behavior. We did let them outside together for a good run and they were fine. I was nervous as we did not have total control except for the shock collar on the boxer. She behaved, plus it was warm so she didn't want to do a lot. Funny aside. My lazy pup did not chase, you could see his mind working . . . hmmm she is running in a circle--I will head her off at the pass. Smart puppy!!!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Mary Beth said:


> Chip18 is the boxer expert and he also has a gsd. Hopefully he'll post on your thread or if you have enough posts you can send him a PM. There is also a boxer forum that he is also a member of. He refers to it in this post:


LOL ... well thanks for the "Promotion" ... but no, I'm not an "Expert." Merely very, very good ... especially with "Boxers" for some reason?? 

Part of the ability of an "Expert" is the ability to transfer what they know to a "Client." And hands on owner present ... I don't seem to be able to do that ... yet at any rate???

But after a few years of research and thanks to "Larry Khron" (and a members here ... David Trainer and Selzer) I finally understood what I do?? And it is an essential part of creating a well behaved dog ... I don't speak "Pro" so for the layman ... "I walk my dog," and that applies to dogs under my care. "Whatever" there issues are they, don't have to worry about them. They look to me to keep, them safe and there "issues" out of there face ... and I'm very good at my job ... works out fine. 

In a nutshell what I do.:






All I do is "create" calming behavior in dogs and doing that "includes" ... training "Place," "Sit on the Dog"and doing "Sit on the Dog" and keeping People out of there face ... if required. That ... is pretty much it. I can say ... I don't give a crap what a dogs "history is" under my care ... it's not gonna be a problem ... and for my understanding of that ... I'll say "Thank You" to my first ever, OS GSD AKA ... "Rocky ... Wobble Dog, HA and Pack Issues and my first to trip to the ER (breaking up Pack issues (no Boxer involvement, there) or as I knew him ... big furry dog with a Pointy Face .... Bully Guy.

But ... if you want to include "Loose Dog" encounters under the heading of "Expert" category ... yessss, ... under that "narrow" definition ... yeah ... I'm pretty freaking good! 

Since our "Prefect Storm" total darkness, nighttime beat down and the first/only time a dog got by and to mine and that took an Ex MWD DD, Wl GSD to be successful! I now follow my own advice and carry a "Walking Stick" ... I don't leave home without it. Cattle Dog encounter, ... life time total "attempt number" 14 on Rocky life time total ... now stands at 18??? Worked out spectacularly well! I never a said word to that dog! 


Screw with ... someone else dog!! I don't have the time or patience, "make better choices dog" so ... YESS, I train that with, dogs I don't know. kinda like , "Don't tread on me!" ... I never said a word. But that ... is another story.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Crap my original laptop crashed and this one seems to suck?? I was trying to post this 
clip 



I core 7 or not ... this machine sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

ebethe said:


> Thanks for your reply Chip 18. Par my boxer is a she demon about 1% of the time, but when she is she is a boxer with a mission . . . thankfully she is playful mostly. We are now giving treats only in their separate crates. We have removed all toys except when the pups are separated, but they do like to play together. We let them play supervised with the rope and long sticks , but the bones are off limits unless separated. Rocky is only 17 weeks old btw not 7 months. A big pup, but still very gangly and pup-like. They both seem to like each other a lot and want to be together--We are working on the sit on the dog with the GSD as well as the Boxer. They both have a decent stay, but not for any significant length of time. Love them both and sure want them to get along.


Sorry for the late response, got tied up as of late and tend to go off on tangents when I do reply ... my bad.

But 1% of (the girls) ... yesss ... I think I'd have to agree. 6 years and no apparent issues?? Would not prepare you for you what you experienced?? I would imagine ... having been there done and that done and done that myself and yep ... it was my baby girl ... that went hog butt, ape crap wild on my Gunther (my Band Dog) "out of the Blue as it were. 

I'm gonna guess ... that it was a fairly wild, off the hook, display of speed, furry and total insanity but ... no harm done??? And most likely ... your puppy was quite eager to get the heck out of "Dodge???" Welcome to the club. 

Been there seen that ... 18 strange dog "counters" at last count and to this day ... I still remember my baby girl "Struddell" going Ape Butt wild on Gunther ... I'd never seen nothing like it?? 

She was just flat gone! And I did not do any "Alpha Roll" crap! I ripped her off Gunther in a headlock, got her outside, and I layed on her till she calmed "Chilled the crap out!!" She was just flat gone ... I did not want to just to get her out of the house and let her go in the backyard, because I feared she would bang into something ... the term "Berserk" comes to mind??? 

Yess ... Boxers ... Boys, Girls ... whatever what's the difference ... now I know! But my next Boxer ... will be a girl! 

The thing is ... while "Cowboygirl's" advise is solid ... it only works ... once you understand you have a problem?? And dare I say at year six ... you never saw any indication of any underlying insanity ... nor did I with my female Boxer??? Struddell was in the 5 to 6 year range also before the "Pig Ear" (and my tool of a friend incident happened) and the birthing of the Baby kittens incidents happened. 

My bad on that one ... Gunther Barked at every new kitten birth and ... apparently Struddell, felt Gunther should be more "Respectful" and ...if I would not stop him from barking ... she would, my bad.  

And all those incidents happened in the 4 to 6 year range also. So it's kinda sorta hard to prevent a stitution ... when you don't know you have a problem?? But now you know and it sounds like the solution for your particular situation is easy enough?? 

You've identified the source of the conflict ... treats and sharing ... and you've made adjustments ... that is pretty much what you need to do. Sending both dogs away for a "Board and Train" strike me as a bit much?? The GSD is a puppy and I seriously doubt any "competent" qualified trainer is going to be letting unknown dogs eat treats together??? Most likely they will wonder ... why this Boxer is there ... because they don't see an issue here??? 

And so you know ... Rocky my GSD while his issues were with Gunther ... "Struddell" (White Boxer) never got involved in those dust ups. She adored Rocky (OS WL GSD) never a single incident??

Train "Place" with both dogs do Sit on the dog ... and give them treats in there own separate spaces and get on life with life. The Crate works fine for now but ... "Place" for both and treats in "Place" should be the goal. A member on here ... did that and she had her problem child "WL GSD" a little dog and two freaking Cane Corso's??? When she posed a "Pic" I was stunned to see that! :surprise:

A private trainer if you feel the need (for a trainer) would be a better call, (rather than board and train) I would think?? But most likely ... they would also wonder what the problem is, (with your Boxer) ... because no competent trainer, that deals with dogs with serious issues ... is going to "allow" dogs with issues. The opportunity to get into conflict over "Treats??, So they would not see ... what you saw?? Your throwing cash down a rat hole with a Board and Train option ... in my view. You know what the issue is ... so don't do that and you'll be fine. >


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## ebethe (Dec 25, 2016)

He can train my "sweet little boxer" to stay in place and a few other items. We are going on vacation in August and thought it would be a good time to send my GSD for training. When you combine the training and the boarding it becomes a bit more reasonable. We have certain weird items we want him not to do--not to take any food from anyone except by a certain command. There are a lot of dog poisoning going on. I want him and Par to protect me (whatever comes natural--no protection training specifically,) but on command I want them to stop and to sit and OBEY that command, no matter what. This is important, please no lectures as I am a older lady not frail by any means, living in the boonies on 63 acres whose hubby goes on a lot of golf trips. I could yell and scream and no one would hear. The dogs, just by their presence makes folks very respectful but I want time to be able to get to my main back-up. Again, please no lectures. Par, the boxer would do the job well, but there is no fear factor with her. Rocky will be a "sweet" 110 lb+ (if he parents are any indication) Black faced GSD. He does not have to say a word and deterrent is written all over his face. Since he will protect naturally as will Par; they need to know when to stop protecting on verbal command. They both can be a team on this one and I have a suspicion that no one in their right mind will plan on doing something evil. Retract that--the meth heads would try anything, but step 2 would be in effect. 

Wow am I off the subject, but this will be their job--I wonder be being on the same team will help my "wild child" . . . btw, we have had days of peace reigning--they play nicely together, seem to really like each other--laying and sleeping in a pile together--but there are no toys and no food. All their together time is totally supervised. Thanks for your advise Chip 18--yours and everyone's help is greatly appreciated.


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