# What's fear aggression



## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

What does it look like? I think most times what's labeled fear aggression is really something else. 

For example, if a dog runs up to a person passing by and attacks them - it doesn't look like fear. Something is wrong, a dog shouldn't be attacking a 'non threat' but it doesn't sound like fear to me. 


I've been told that dogs that do that are insecure and that makes more sense. So they run up barking and possibly biting out of the 'attack before I'm attacked' notion. 

Anyway, interested in thoughts about all of this


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Also, someone saw a video of my dog attacking my cat (it was recorded by accident) and mentioned that he looks like he's all confident and enjoying himself. And dogs I've seen at the park running a hundred feet to lunge and bark also look like they get some kind of a pleasure from doing this. 

So they're insecure but they like the act of attacking?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

FA is evident often...people think they see 'protective' behavior when in reality it is FA. Dogs that are confident seldom if ever act out aggressively. Aggression generally comes out of that fight or flight instinct. <This isn't including the sport bite work or protection type training aggression, but general day to day life stuff.
Young dogs can't really decipher which is the right path to take so aggression happens with the lower threshold dogs. Higher threshold will wait and see, think and decide whether or not to react.
Seldom does aggression with a young dog come from a dominant mindset, but every now and then there is "that" dog that is extreme on the civil chart.
Insecurity is always fear based, no? 
Onyx, my female is a bully. Bullies are usually not very confident and take advantage of the weak. Again, it is a fear based mindset.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> FA is evident often...people think they see 'protective' behavior when in reality it is FA. Dogs that are confident seldom if ever act out aggressively. Aggression generally comes out of that fight or flight instinct.
> Young dogs can't really decipher which is the right path to take so aggression happens with the lower threshold dogs. Higher threshold will wait and see, think and decide whether or not to react.
> Seldom does aggression with a young dog come from a dominant mindset, but every now and then there is "that" dog that is extreme on the civil chart.
> Insecurity is always fear based, no?
> Onyx, my female is a bully. Bullies are usually not very confident and take advantage of the weak. Again, it is a fear based mindset.





Lol I know it's not protection, in case it sounded that's what I was saying. 

What confuses me is the act of them running up to someone who's not bothering them. I'd understand a dog going crazy at the sight of another dog or a person coming up to them and looking at them (my dog goes that and I've labeled him FA a long time ago)

But then he runs up to a dog 100 ft away and then, before, has ran up to people that were far away minding their own business. What is he scared of?

And if he is scared - how about running the other way. This made no sense at all. 

I thought they always choose flight before fight?

I'm confused. I guess to me fear looks like this (my dog has done this too): someone comes up to us and he hides behind me. That's obvious fear. 

To go out of his way to chase down someone who's paying you no mind i- I'm not sure


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Onyx, are you saying that's bullying? That sounds believable.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

it's the "i'm going to get you before you get me",,that to me, can indicate fear aggression, a dog that will bite and back off as well..


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> it's the "i'm going to get you before you get me",,that to me, can indicate fear aggression, a dog that will bite and back off as well..



Why not run? What is it that makes some dogs run and others try to scare off the passerby?

Some of this is about my dog, some is about other dogs I watched.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

lalachka said:


> Why not run? What is it that makes some dogs run and others try to scare off the passerby?
> 
> Some of this is about my dog, some is about other dogs I watched.


Depends what has worked for the dog in the past. If a dog has successfully scared someone away several times by running and barking at them then why would it stop doing what it's doing?


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

simba405 said:


> Depends what has worked for the dog in the past. If a dog has successfully scared someone away several times by running and barking at them then why would it stop doing what it's doing?



I don't know)))) I'm trying to think through this that's why I posted


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I agree with onxy'girl, it basically comes down to fight of flight. Something is making the dog fearful, the adrenaline gets going and instincts take over. So if your dog can't run, say its on leash or in a confined space, it will try to defend itself. Hopefully it will give warnings signs before an outward attack.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Gretchen said:


> I agree with onxy'girl, it basically comes down to fight of flight. Something is making the dog fearful, the adrenaline gets going and instincts take over. So if your dog can't run, say its on leash or in a confined space, it will try to defend itself. Hopefully it will give warnings signs before an outward attack.



I totally get this concept. But a dog is off leash, sitting on a bench next to me, all of a sudden gets up, runs across the field and starts barking and lunging at people. 

They were 100 ft away if not more. That's when I get confused but I guess as someone said, since it worked for them before on leash, they generalized it and will now chase down anyone they see?


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

simba405 said:


> Depends what has worked for the dog in the past. If a dog has successfully scared someone away several times by running and barking at them then why would it stop doing what it's doing?


This reminds me of our Fed Ex and UPS deliveries. The truck comes, the person comes to our door, the dog barks and the person leaves. The dog thinks the delivery person left because it barked. The dog does not know it part of the job. So now the barking strategy works.

The scenario where the OP asks about a dog attacking from like 100 yds away, no reason to assume a threat, I don't know if that fear aggression, poor genetics and/or a terrible upbringing (nature/nurture).


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

100 ft. Does that make a diff?

I'm sure he has poor genetics and I def made mistakes raising him. 

So he can never be off leash? He would run up to people barking last year, I put him on a long line for a few months until I saw he ignored people and then let him off. 

He did this last night (the 100ft run). I'm actually depressed. Everything was going so well


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

It was dark and the lady had white pants on. I'm thinking he thought it was a dog. At least that's what I hope. 

He's going back on a long line. I just can't believe he was doing so well and now, all of a sudden. 

It means he can never be let off leash if it was people. I will watch him for a month or two.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

simba405 said:


> Depends what has worked for the dog in the past. If a dog has successfully scared someone away several times by running and barking at them then why would it stop doing what it's doing?


This is it. Dogs do what works, and many learn quickly what does and doesn't get them what they want.

If you offer a dog a cookie and ask him to sit, to which he does and is then rewarded with the cookie, he will very often repeat the behavior of sitting again to achieve the reward of the cookie. 

If an under-confident dog barks at someone because said person is making them uncomfortable, and said person backs away, the dog will be more likely to repeat the behavior of barking to achieve the reward of the person going away.

Running and barking and chasing after tends to get an even more drastic reaction, the person/dog/etc moves away even quicker, which for some is even more rewarding.

The latter two are excellent examples of negative reinforcement at work, with the barking/chasing being self-rewarding behaviors. Think counter surfing, same deal.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Got it. This really sucks because it means that at this point it's been so heavily reinforced that it probably can't be fixed.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My dogs are always successful in scaring off the UPS or Fed Ex guy....Bark bark bark, dude drops his package and runs back to his truck. Dogs are programmed that barking makes him go away. I'm seldom if ever home to change their mindset. I feel bad for delivery people. Bites due to their rush in, run away behavior happens every day I bet. The hat and sunglasses and a big loud truck make it even worse


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

Running and barking at someone can be fear aggression, or a dog with low threshold or a dog that's balanced but is a bully and needs better leadership. 

If your dog is less than stellar in other areas then I would say it's fear. If he's a confident stable dog then I would say better leadership.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

We did the GSD temperament test this past weekend and a couple dogs flunked within the first two tests, which were a person making contact with the dogs handler/owner and the next one was a person petting the dog. There was no threat and the dogs in question barked, backed away, barked and then lunged. The evaluator just labeled it as aggression. A couple of the dogs made it to the shaking of the can but decided the can with rocks in it were evil. It was a very good experience and I learned a lot watching all the dogs and their reactions.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

lalachka said:


> Got it. This really sucks because it means that at this point it's been so heavily reinforced that it probably can't be fixed.



Oh, of course it can be fixed.

Harder maybe, self-rewarding behaviors are always harder to extinguish because you have no direct control over them, but there are plenty of things to curb aggression or reactivity.

For instance, you can teach an incompatible behavior to the dog, the reward for which is more satisfying than the reward the dog gets for posturing. 
So: dog sees something that makes it uncomfortable, rather than let the dog react you ask the dog to sit and "watch me". Heavily reinforce the sitting and watching with something extremely valuable to the dog (ball, tug, food, whatever). 

You can also show the dog that its behavior is no longer rewarding, or present something that is even less desirable for the dog than the "scary thing" and offer him a means to escape it. Lou Castle's "crittering" method is essentially this.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

atravis said:


> Oh, of course it can be fixed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought I fixed it, he was fine for 6 months. Then something happened and he started again. 

The only thing I can think of was he got into a fight at the park. No damage but still. Other than that I'm lost. 

It's just so depressing to be back at the spot I started at. 

I will def try fixing it again. I will use your solution.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

MOST fear aggression can be fixed. Depends on how fearful the dog is. My preferred method would also be Ecollar.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> My dogs are always successful in scaring off the UPS or Fed Ex guy....Bark bark bark, dude drops his package and runs back to his truck. Dogs are programmed that barking makes him go away. I'm seldom if ever home to change their mindset. I feel bad for delivery people. Bites due to their rush in, run away behavior happens every day I bet. The hat and sunglasses and a big loud truck make it even worse



Lolol

And yep, delivery guys don't have it easy at all!!!


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

simba405 said:


> Running and barking at someone can be fear aggression, or a dog with low threshold or a dog that's balanced but is a bully and needs better leadership.
> 
> If your dog is less than stellar in other areas then I would say it's fear. If he's a confident stable dog then I would say better leadership.



It's probably both. I'm not taking any blame off me, I made many mistakes. But the place I got him from - he probably wasn't bred the best


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

llombardo said:


> We did the GSD temperament test this past weekend and a couple dogs flunked within the first two tests, which were a person making contact with the dogs handler/owner and the next one was a person petting the dog. There was no threat and the dogs in question barked, backed away, barked and then lunged. The evaluator just labeled it as aggression. A couple of the dogs made it to the shaking of the can but decided the can with rocks in it were evil. It was a very good experience and I learned a lot watching all the dogs and their reactions.



What did you learn? I'm not being rude. Seriously interested. I couldn't understand it from your post

I love studying their body language and reactions, wish I can learn more


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

simba405 said:


> MOST fear aggression can be fixed. Depends on how fearful the dog is. My preferred method would also be Ecollar.



And that's why I posted. I feel if it's true fear then it's unfair to punish the dog for it. That's why I'm trying to understand what's driving him. 

Someone explained to me that just because he's fearful doesn't give him the right to act like an a... And I agree with that. 

But still not sure)))))

So you'd stim when he's just about to react? Or how?


ETA I don't know how fearful he is. I actually saw a few trainers and was told that I have a very good dog, that he's a gem, that he's eager to please. Good trainers, with a name. 

I also was told that he's not invested in his reactions. Like he's doing it because it's a habit so I just have to break the habit. And that he gives off lots of signs before he reacts. 


Every time I see a dog - I watch him and catch before he's about to react. He hasn't reacted to people like this (run up to them off leash) in a year so I wasn't looking at him when I saw people walking. I'm not sure what happened there


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Just always keep in mind that fear-based anything is just that... an animal acting out of fear.

I think its important to keep that in mind, and remember we can't just correct away fear. We can teach behaviors that are incompatible with aggression, or show them other ways to react in stressful/scary situations, but if we really want to change the WHY of those behaviors we have to deal with and eliminate the fear itself.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

atravis said:


> Just always keep in mind that fear-based anything is just that... an animal acting out of fear.
> 
> I think its important to keep that in mind, and remember we can't just correct away fear. We can teach behaviors that are incompatible with aggression, or show them other ways to react in stressful/scary situations, but if we really want to change the WHY of those behaviors we have to deal with and eliminate the fear itself.



Exactly my point!!!!! About correcting for fear. 

I'm scared of snakes, you can beat me all you want and I will still be scared. Maybe at some point I will be scared of the beating more so I will stay quiet but I will still be scared of snakes. 


However, I was watching a few videos of people that love them and I started liking them. I still can't approach a snake but i'd be wiling to have someone teach me handle them. 

So I believe it's possible to fix fears. Just not sure if it truly goes away forever.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Before someone asks why I don't go back to the trainers. One lives far and was here for a few days, another moved far 2 weeks after I met her))))))

They're both from ME school. I love his training philosophy and want to follow someone who teaches it


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

It's a slippery slope giving advice on fear aggression over the Internet. The honest best advice is get a trainer who can see your dog in person. 

And no you don't stim the dog for being reactive. That can actually make things worst.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

I guess its important also, to point out that "fear" doesn't have to mean a dog who is terrified or mortally worried for its life, etc. 

A lot of things can get grouped under the "fear aggression" category.

Being uncomfortable, underconfident... these things more or less follow the same path. How each one is dealt with depends on the exact nature of the problem.

Some dogs, young teenager-y ones especially, are not "fearful" in the classic sense. A young dog who is not yet fully confident in himself might take "chump shots" at things, to feel out others and his surroundings and see what he can get away with. Not specifically "scared" of anything, nothing stemming from a bad experience, just not really sure about things yet. In cases like that, sometimes all you need is to tell the dog to knock it off, and he'll get that and things will fall into line from there.

Sometimes the biggest, nastiest, scariest looking aggressive dogs are the ones who have experienced the worst from life, and have had to consistently escalate their behavior in order to feel secure. And as nasty as it may look, in the end, it is still fear and insecurity. These are the dogs that need the time, the soft hand, the dogs who need to be built up and shown the world isn't such a bad place, even if their behavior is arguably the worst.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

simba405 said:


> It's a slippery slope giving advice on fear aggression over the Internet. The honest best advice is get a trainer who can see your dog in person.
> 
> And no you don't stim the dog for being reactive. That can actually make things worst.



I wasn't going to blindly take what anyone says but I always get some ideas from reading these. Some have helped. So post it, if you want, with the disclaimer that no one should just do what they read on the net. 

I'm interested in the method, if for nothing else then just to learn one of the methods. 


I'm looking for a trainer. Believe it or not, finding a balanced trainer in NYC is a task. They're either pure positive or pure force.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

atravis said:


> I guess its important also, to point out that "fear" doesn't have to mean a dog who is terrified or mortally worried for its life, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, that's what I've been told about him by trainers that saw him. He's being a punk. He's not invested in his reactions, just a habit by now. He gives off a ton of warnings and it's pretty easy to redirect him. 

One trainer showed me how to redirect and it worked every time with dogs. I'm still doing what she showed. 

With people though, he doesn't react to every person. So do I just redirect every time I see a person? There are tons of people outside lol. 

Like I can't catch his trigger. With dogs it's easy. He sees a dog and he will react. With people - I can't catch how he picks them. 

I know some triggers, a person walking towards him fast, either looking at him or talking to him. Or just talking to him. 

Like there would be people standing right next to him and nothing. Then they go 'ohh what a doggie' and he blows up

But last night - I'm lost. I'm really hoping he thought it was a dog otherwise I don't know how to fix it



ETA I'm saying I don't know how to fix it because he let 100 people on hundred different days go by and didn't react. I don't know what triggered last night and not sure how to fix it


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

lalachka - how old is your dog?

Our dog went through a phase similar to this starting about 10-11months. A lot of her fear was just inexperience, like seeing someone carrying a surfboard or wearing a backpack, not typical human silhouettes, chased an offleash chichuahua early one morning because it was where the squirrels typically hang out and thought it was a squirrel. She had lunged at people for unknown reasons (maybe they were scared of her or their gait was different). 

As soon as this happened I really stepped up the training, and did a lot of positive training in busy areas, almost overexposing to people and dogs, but not to the point of annoying her. Hang in there with the training and keep redirecting ( we used treats and lots of positive good girl talk). It took several months for us, but now that she's 4 years old and her we can take her anywhere, well worth the effort.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Gretchen said:


> lalachka - how old is your dog?
> 
> Our dog went through a phase similar to this starting about 10-11months. A lot of her fear was just inexperience, like seeing someone carrying a surfboard or wearing a backpack, not typical human silhouettes, chased an offleash chichuahua early one morning because it was where the squirrels typically hang out and thought it was a squirrel. She had lunge at people for unknown reasons (maybe they were scared of her or their gait was different).
> 
> As soon as this happened I really stepped up the training, and did a lot of positive training in busy areas, almost overexposing to people and dogs, but not to the point of annoying her.



18 months. He had this phase starting when he was about 5-6 months. I saw a trainer, overexposed him as well, i'd go to a busy bus stop every day, stand by the corner and have people walk up on him from around the corner, like 40 people getting off the bus. I did this for a month or so and I fixed it. 

And then, 6 months later, he started bugging out on people again. I can't think of anything except a fight he had with a dog. No bites but he's fragile, maybe that traumatized him


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Well, I do agree that hands-on is best in this situation. Not being there to see it its impossible to say exactly what sets him off.

But a general rule of thumb is... if you know there's a trigger imminent, redirect. Of course you won't be able to catch 100% of his reactions if you don't know what sets him off, but by controlling the ones you do know are coming, you can lessen the amount of time he has to rehearse these unwanted behaviors. 

Also a good rule of thumb, if you do have a bad experience, stop and take a moment to go over what happened and asses the details. Hard to do in the heat of the moment, but do it enough and you -will- find trends. This will help you get to the root of the problem, so you can start working towards a positive outcome.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Another tip is put yourself between you and the person or dog for now. Your dog does not always have to heel on the left. We taught left and right. Make wide arcs walking around people.
What also helped with some of this was finding a group of really well behaved dogs and do pack walks or outings. We found our group at the website meetup.com, we were lucky that its all GSDs. It was like my dog observed their good behavior and with them it was really the first time I was able to take Molly off leash. She just followed their lead.

I hope you can find a good trainer soon. One of the best skills our dog learned was an automatic "down". This was just a long class on its own working one on one with trainer and then two private lessons. 
They way we were taught required a team, I don't think I could have done this on my own. The "down" is really calming when they start acting up with humans or dogs.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Trust me, I know no one can help me over the net. But I find that when I post, someone will say something that sticks when I'm outside or just helps me understand something. 

I know that trainer is the way to go. Unfortunately, all the ones I like are inaccessible. I have someone help me over video and email. 

I haven't told her about last night though. I'm embarrassed. She will say that he should've been on leash and I agree. But I have to be able to let him run. It's a constant struggle between safety and exercise. 

I usually let him run on a 30 ft line but that's horribly unsafe. Whatever, that's for a diff thread. 

ETA. Thank you for all the suggestions. I will def do that and I'm sure there are trends, I'm just not seeing them


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Gretchen said:


> Another tip is put yourself between you and the person or dog for now. Your dog does not always have to heel on the left. We taught left and right. Make wide arcs walking around people.
> What also helped with some of this was finding a group of really well behaved dogs and do pack walks or outings. We found our group at the website meetup.com, we were lucky that its all GSDs. It was like my dog observed their good behavior and with them it was really the first time I was able to take Molly off leash. She just followed their lead.



I do most of the time. Sometimes I won't. If he's next to the people then he's on a short leash and I'm walking while staring at him. If his head turns I distract and get his attention on me. 
I want to be able to see if he will react, that's why sometimes I don't avoid people. 

And yeah, finding well behaved dogs that will let me work my dog around theirs would be a life safer. There was a few times I got lucky when we were passing by a dog that was sitting. I was able to go in and out of the threshold zone inching closer and finally passed by with no reaction. 

But I usually don't get lucky like that. They're usually walking towards us and I just hide behind the cars lol

I will try again. I checked that website before and there was nothing around here. Maybe something changed.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

lalachka said:


> What did you learn? I'm not being rude. Seriously interested. I couldn't understand it from your post
> 
> I love studying their body language and reactions, wish I can learn more


All the dogs reacted differently in every test. It was an experience seeing all these GSDs from different lines react so many different ways. You could see the aloofness in some of them, some had stronger protective instincts, some enjoyed people touching them, etc. You could see the aggression in some, the stress level in each was different and it was clear which ones were really stressed out. The protective instinct test was really interesting, because only one GSD actually lunged and barked at the scary stranger, which I didn't think was to scary...LOL. My male is a therapy dog and the scary guy was comparable to a hospital patient walking with a walker screaming, which was on the test to get him certified. My male held his ground and every time "scary" guy came closer my dog moved toward him. Finally the evaluator told "scary" guy to stop because he was amusing my dog LOL.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

If you see a fear aggressive dog react, you can actually see the difference. They do look and sound big and tough but if you know anything about dog body language, you will see: a dog that is unsure about what they are doing. A dog that is leaning more backward than forward. Generally a dog with ears back and tail tucked.

My Avery was fear reactive (he would get close, but he generally didn't take that next step to actually bite). He would bark like crazy at any new person. But if they walked towards him, he would back off. He was very nervous in his big loud get away from me bark. 

Also I should note that when I got him it did start as a flight behavior. He would run and hide behind me and ever so often he would do a low growl...but over time it escalated. To the point that at flyball another person couldn't be in the ring with us with out him freaking out. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Yep same here, used to hide and now doesn't. 
I will try watching his body language though I'm usually not thinking about studying him when this happens)))))

I will post a video of him attacking my cat. Interested in comments about body language


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Fast forward to 4:50

This got recorded by accident. It was dumb of me to have him there off leash knowing that they fight but when we train there he has always ignored the cat. 

http://youtu.be/ZS1czw39EUE


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## Professor Fluffybottom (Jun 18, 2014)

lalachka said:


> Yep, that's what I've been told about him by trainers that saw him. He's being a punk. He's not invested in his reactions, just a habit by now. He gives off a ton of warnings and it's pretty easy to redirect him.
> 
> One trainer showed me how to redirect and it worked every time with dogs. I'm still doing what she showed.
> 
> ...


I am curious what your trainer told you to do to re-direct the dog? 
I have read about having your dog do targeting (touching his nose to your hand) when he is scared or unsure but that is the only advice I have found with regard to teaching an alternate response to fear. I would like to learn some other options.
I was thinking about teaching my dog to shake hands when he is fearful, because he naturally uses his paws when he wants something, and we use shake as his most common command.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Professor Fluffybottom said:


> I am curious what your trainer told you to do to re-direct the dog?
> I have read about having your dog do targeting (touching his nose to your hand) when he is scared or unsure but that is the only advice I have found with regard to teaching an alternate response to fear. I would like to learn some other options.
> I was thinking about teaching my dog to shake hands when he is fearful, because he naturally uses his paws when he wants something, and we use shake as his most common command.


Just doing some obedience is a great way to redirect or diffuse a potential situation. Or popping out a tug and start playing with the dog. Hand target is a good idea(as well as the paw/shake) but I'd rather get the dog into another frame of mind and keep it going for a few minutes until the situation that the dog was going to react to dissolves.
Best to always be proactive and not let the dog zone in to start that reactivity....


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Yep, onyx girl summed it up nicely. It's all about noticing that he's about to react. That means that you notice all the triggers before he does, then - for me there's always a dilemma

Do I distract him and my goal is that he doesn't notice? Or do I let him see it and then work on distracting. 


My trainer had me move back while giving him treats. Like I'm walking backwards and luring him with treats in a way. Or a few times if there was enough space (our sidewalks are tiny sometimes, so I can't just step aside and work with him, sometimes I have to go the other way away from the trigger) put him in a sit not facing the trigger and have him watch me and treat. Tug, any toy, I have a rock he loves and if I kick it - he will go crazy chasing it. Anything your dog can do to forget about it. (She said rock is a bad idea, files their teeth down. Too bad)


If you didn't notice early enough and he reacted then just walk away fast. Not much you can do, he can't hear or see you. 

Also, if there's a trigger - just walking two steps, turn, two steps, turn, helps. The turns take their mind off it. 

To sum it up. Notice before they do and distract them.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

About hand targeting and shake paws. In my experience, it has to be something dynamic. Like just having him sit is not enough for him. He will break his neck looking that way and it's cemented in that position. I can't move it with my hands (lol yes I tried)))

So for me it has to be a lot of movement. I usually can't have him watch me if the trigger is close. So it depends on how close it is too.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

lalachka said:


> Fast forward to 4:50
> 
> This got recorded by accident. It was dumb of me to have him there off leash knowing that they fight but when we train there he has always ignored the cat.
> 
> 2014-06-13 Boomer, i'm an idiot - YouTube


This to me looks like a purely predatory response, not so much any sort of fear aggression. 

You can see the progression from interest, to arousal, to chase/catch pretty clearly. 

The Lou Castle "crittering" method might not be a bad thing for you to do some research on if you haven't, at least for this particular issue.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Yep, to me too))))) yeah I will check it out. 

Actually, my trainer already told me what to do. I just have to do it. 

But I have to condition him to the Ecollar and I haven't finished it yet)))))


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