# Attitude / Personality vs Looks....



## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

So I get my puppy September 20th, I put a reservation down a male, and there are two males. 

My father trained GSD for a large part of his life, got his dogs to the CDX / UDX levels. 

The breeder as well has shown / trained her dogs for multiple levels of obedience and show etc. 

Here is Sire: (Spelling?)









Here is Dam: (Spelling?)









With my father and Breeders assistance I'm going to get to choose between the two males, my goals are to do obedience and utility, tracking, and possibly search and rescue (I want to avoid Agility) as things to do with my boy when he gets old enough.

The puppies are only 3-4 weeks old and I've been visiting the litter every weekend for 45-60 minutes, and they are definitely starting to show some interesting character. There is light blue and dark blue, dark blue was the first male, (4th in the litter) and light blue was 2nd male (5th of the litter). Light blue is physically larger and will by breeders statement be a very large dog. 

Light blue has shown a lot of alpha tendencies, he pushes his way out of the pack when he's on the bottom so that he can get on top, he play fights with the bigger females in the oh so affectionately called "Fight Club" at this age. He seems to be very inquisitive and confident in things he does.

Blue on the other hand seems to be the chomping toy of all the other dogs, and is almost always on the bottom when they sleep, he seems very patient, but not as out going as light blue. He doesn't wimper or whine when the the other dogs are wrestlign with him he just kind of sits there and takes it, I'm not sure if that's fear / passiveness / laziness / or what not.

And I get that its pretty hard to tell at this point in the game being as young as they are, and things can change. Up to this point whenever I saw Light Blue I really liked his personality, his confidence etc. 

But last week my breeder said that he's likely (Very likely) to have a plush stock coat... 

And well that's not the coat I was hoping for, I had high hopes for a coat like mom or dad ... 

Just wondering am I getting caught up on the wrong thing? I mean personality > looks... but at the same time looks are important for sure... 

I don't know just wondering if I'm the only one out there that isn't fond of Plush coats or not? This was a huge let down.

Here is some links for some video:

http://www.facebook.com/ajax/flash/...dth=403&max_height=403&context=timelineSingle

And some puppy pictures of the males:


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Personally, I didn't worry about looks and went with the pup that had the personality and temperament I was looking for. I jokingly told the breeder I wanted the dumbest, laziest pup in the litter- what I meant was I wanted one that was calm, not very high drive and Stosh is exactly what I wanted. He exhibited traits the same as the dark blue pup you described. Stosh is very stable, playful and affectionate but has a strong work ethic- we herd sheep- but has an off switch. He turned out to be long coated, not what I intended to get. You'll just have to decide how high a drive you want, what kind of personality. I'm sure it'll be a beautiful dog no matter which one you choose


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

Interesting I always thought that the drive would be directly connected to work ethic. I have kids so having a calm dog who has an "off" switch would be fantastic. Having a dog who is very stable and fantastic around kids and strangers, but can still participate in Obedience / Training / Tracking for fun off time for the two of us is what I'm looking for.

I had thought the Dark Blue pup may not be the dog for me, but maybe it might be will have to continue watching


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

IMO there's nothing wrong with getting what you want. Some people genuinely don't care about coat type, looks, or color and that's just fine. Some of us do. I think there are plenty of great GSDs out there, there's no reason I can't get what I want. Coat type, looks, and color *are* important to me. I want the whole package and if I can't find what I want then I'll just wait and keep looking. Personally, I would not get a puppy that wasn't the coat type I wanted.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

i would go by what your father and breeder say. for me, i would most likely choose a gsd like stosh.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I would choose personality over coat, but I also prefer the short stock coat. When I met my puppy's litter, all the puppies were fighting except for one, who was playing with a ball. That's the one I said I'd like  
He loves food, loves toys, loves people, loves everything - he's very easy to train and lots of fun. I know whichever one you pick, you'll adore!


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

Hey thanks everyone great advice I agree that I'll love whatever comes home  But I grew up with Short Haired and thats sorta what I wanted, but I can see I am being a bit vain 

I needed some non-invested input


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi from Ottawa as well . Which breeder did you choose? 

I was in the same boat, I told my breeder I was hoping for a male, the mother is bicolour and the father was sable and I really wanted a sable, especially since the father of the dad was a stunning darker sable. When the puppies were born all the males were sable but one who was a bicolour.

To be honest I didn't even look at the bicolour when I first saw the litter at 3 weeks old. When I went back they were 5 weeks old and the breeder was bathing them so I got to hold each puppy and dry them off and snuggle until the next one was ready. She told me there were three she thought would be suitable for me and one was the bicolour. One of the sable puppies was very feisty when I held it but the other two just licked my face and snuggled in to sleep

The bicolour struck me that day as a very medium energy, middle of the pack mentality and suddenly I really was interested in him regardless of his colour. The breeder emailed me photos a few days later and most of the photos were of the bicolour puppy. When I saw them again at 7 weeks I knew for sure I wanted the bicolour pup and sure enough when I picked up the puppy at 9 weeks it was the bicolour pup that she handed me

I haven't regretted it one bit, I'm sure I would have been happy with a sable based on the colour but Delgado has really taught me to look beyond the colouring to the personality and temperament of the dog inside.

I'm not saying the coat isn't important but don't let it be the only thing that sways you


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Just an idea: get some very recent pictures and post them in the breeders forum for some feedback, as far as guessing at the future coats. They might all be short stock coats and just fuzzy puppies right now?


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Liesje said:


> IMO there's nothing wrong with getting what you want. Some people genuinely don't care about coat type, looks, or color and that's just fine. Some of us do. I think there are plenty of great GSDs out there, there's no reason I can't get what I want. Coat type, looks, and color *are* important to me. I want the whole package and if I can't find what I want then I'll just wait and keep looking. Personally, I would not get a puppy that wasn't the coat type I wanted.



I definitely agree with what Lies said. The litter I wanted a puppy out of had only one sable male. I wanted a sable very badly and would not have taken a plush coat/long coat so I asked my breeder to focus on that pup for me. Luckily for me, my breeders agreed he was a great match for us. Low and behold - he's perfect for us in every way. I was happy to have gotten the looks & personality. I personally also want the whole package. If the puppy doesn't have the looks, temperament and workability I desire I would rather wait for one to come along that does. Total package puppies are great.


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

I chose Bluemist GSD (Bluemist Kennels and old style site, she's a breeder/trainer not a Web Developer, Bluemist (GSD's) - German Shepherd Dogs - Ingleside, ON - Local Business | Facebook) she was a student of Art Newman who my father trained with many years ago, and is one of the better trainers that I've read about in the Ottawa Area. She had many things I was looking for: 

-very open door policy
-sire / dam (spelling?) onsite to meet
-loves dogs (she still has her old sire on site)
-was interested in who I was more than my $ (I had a couple of breeders that were like "Come get a puppy")
-from the moment I talked to her, she was fantastic, offering advice, emails, she will always try and help find her dogs homes if things don't work out, she's just friendly and exactly what I wanted.

Nice to see other Ottawa folk on!! (Or Canadians for that matter ) If you have any local Ottawa tips (Forums, Socialization spots etc) I'd love to hear them!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Wow their Gunnar is a hunk! Love him.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Very nice, I decided to go with a WL so I haven't heard of them but they look like very nice dogs with good titles

Fuzzybunny is from Ottawa as well, and I think there's one or two more. Also there's several from Ontario in the Toronto and also Kitchener area 

As for places to go, Conroy Pit and Bruce Pit are good places to socialize once the vaccinations are complete, and there's several smaller off and on leash parks scattered throughout the City. If you like swimming there's a very nice beach in Constance Bay that allows dogs and humans to swim and play together. 

I'm not part of any official club in the area but there might be others who can comment

As for training I've used both Carolark and Forever Friends, there was bad and good to each one but no red flags


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You can get used to a dog's looks, but you can never get used to a bad personality.


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## iloveshepherds (Jul 10, 2012)

you have to go with what you want. dont feel guilty for feeling that way.
when i looked at pups, i wanted a male..and a black/tan.... i didnt even bother looking at the females or the sable males in the group. LOL
and then his personality stood out from the other male.....and im 150% happy!

i had also talked to the breeder that i wanted a service dog...and Navajo and his brother were both recommended.


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Wow their Gunnar is a hunk! Love him.


Gunnar was one reason I chose this breeder not because he's stunning or that he was titled etc, (Because he's now retired)

But because they still had their old stud dog, he lives mostly in the house now, he's 13 or 14 I think at this point and he's a wonderful dog, most of my research found some breeders who didn't keep a stud dog after they were retired because of the conflicts with the new one. (Obviously Gunnar is kept away from Bernd because they will go at it)



Shade said:


> Very nice, I decided to go with a WL so I haven't heard of them but they look like very nice dogs with good titles
> 
> Fuzzybunny is from Ottawa as well, and I think there's one or two more. Also there's several from Ontario in the Toronto and also Kitchener area
> 
> ...


My breeder did suggest Carolark, but sadly I'm on the other side of Ottawa (Actually 25minutes past Ottawa) so I'm thinking of going to: Best Friends (Best Friends Dog Training) who also got good reviews from my breeder. While the two closest ones to me did not get good reviews at all.) Plus Best Friends does Obedience, Tracking, and Search and Rescue all of which I'm interested in.




Sunflowers said:


> You can get used to a dog's looks, but you can never get used to a bad personality.


Probably the best quote I've read yet.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> You can get used to a dog's looks, but you can never get used to a bad personality.


Absolutely! I made the mistake one time of choosing for color. Well actually, I was looking at two different litters, and all else seemed equal, so I chose the dark sable puppy (my favorite color) over the black/tan in the other litter.

The pup grew up to be stunningly beautiful, but was also hyperactive, had the attention span of a gnat, and wanted to do something to my cats... Really nice pup in a lot of ways, it just wasn't a good fit.

From now on, temperament trumps looks. I do prefer a short stock coat, but a plush coat wouldn't be a dealbreaker. They do require more grooming, but otherwise, it shouldn't be a huge issue. Believe me, you want a dog you can live with! I don't care if my next pup looks like a goat, if he's got the right temperament, he'll be beautiful in my eyes.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

I would say personality FIRST as well.

When I got Dakoda, I arrived at her breeder's home here in the U.S. with every intention of taking her brother home. Why? Because he was the most beautiful black sable. 
But while I spoke with the breeder, her brother hid under his boat snarling (yes, a SIX week old puppy was SNARLING, teeth bared and all). I was about to just leave when Koda escaped the puppy pen, followed by her sisters, and came straight up to me. Her sisters jumped all over me but were friendly. Then Koda just sat down, staring at me very calmly. 
She's the only one who turned out black and tan. That was the exact color I'd wanted to avoid originally. But she's also the only one of the litter with such an excellant temperament.
Good on/off switch, strong herding instincts, high prey drive (but will not leave my side without permission), good protective instinct, courageous, obedient, intelligent, etc. 

So even though I didn't get the color (or gender!) that I had wanted, I ended up with the best dog and I would do it over again! All because I went for her personality! 


HOWEVER- As another member said, there is no problem with getting what you want. If you want a certain color and personality that isn't in this litter, see if you can wait for the next litter or look around at other reputable breeders


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Yes I like having all classes at the same centre as well, saves on travel and I like the consistency. 

I'm planning on doing tracking, agility, and RallyO as well as obedience and CGC or CGN with Delgado


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

I was going to go into Agility but I'd had several people give me warning that big shepherds can do a lot of damage on agility, after looking into it I think Tracking / Search and Rescue would be a better fit for us 

Mind you that being said my Father did Agility with all his Shepherds never had an issue.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Sports/activites you can do (just trying to help LOL):
Tracking
Agility
S/A
SchutzHund
Herding
Obedience
Rally
Flyball

There's more, but those are the ones that immediately come to mind.
I do herding with my girl and it's a BLAST! I plan on doing obedience, tracking and SchH (hopefully) with my next shepherd


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Sunflowers said:


> You can get used to a dog's looks, but you can never get used to a bad personality.


But why not have both? Also for me looks are not just about personal preference but the entire conformation of the dog....athleticism, size, whether the dog's coat type matches the climate and terrain, visual deterrence, etc. I don't want a dog I have to "get used to" in any capacity.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

TrentL said:


> I was going to go into Agility but I'd had several people give me warning that big shepherds can do a lot of damage on agility, after looking into it I think Tracking / Search and Rescue would be a better fit for us
> 
> Mind you that being said my Father did Agility with all his Shepherds never had an issue.


Everything I just plan on doing it for fun. At our last puppy class they set up a mock agility course for us to play with and Delgado loved it! We did the A frame, jump, tunnel, ladder, and high and low planks. All low impact and easy of course but it gave me the bug


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Sports/activites you can do (just trying to help LOL):
> Tracking
> Agility
> S/A
> ...


I was watching some video and I'm wondering ... I see alot of people using German Commands for their Shepherd (As does my breeder) I know it doesn't really matter because the dog doesn't speak english its tone, body language that are the most part, but is there a reason for one over the other?


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

Shade said:


> Everything I just plan on doing it for fun. At our last puppy class they set up a mock agility course for us to play with and Delgado loved it! We did the A frame, jump, tunnel, ladder, and high and low planks. All low impact and easy of course but it gave me the bug


There's also the stress agility that's different from sports agility (sorry if I said it wrong). Suppose to exercise the dog's mental plus physical and is not about how fast can the dog twist and turn. That I think is excellent! Don't know where to find one nearby though...


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

TrentL said:


> I was watching some video and I'm wondering ... I see alot of people using German Commands for their Shepherd (As does my breeder) I know it doesn't really matter because the dog doesn't speak english its tone, body language that are the most part, but is there a reason for one over the other?


Personal preference

I think majority if not all of people use German commands for Schutzhund


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

TrentL said:


> I was watching some video and I'm wondering ... I see alot of people using German Commands for their Shepherd (As does my breeder) I know it doesn't really matter because the dog doesn't speak english its tone, body language that are the most part, but is there a reason for one over the other?


 I use a mixture of Japanese, Chinese, and Native American languages in my commands for my girl (as well as hand signals and noises). She obviously doesn't do SchH, but still  She learned them just fine.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I know the SAR organizations in Ottawa area. If this what you plan to do then you chose the pup for that purpose. I know that the evaluations are brutal. The people are dedicated to an extreme and are required to be so. Winnow the chaff - . You want fun think of tracking . Even there best chances if you choose for the aptitude.

decide on what you want to do as a basis for your selection.


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Absolutely! I made the mistake one time of choosing for color.


Same here. I won't do that again. Ever since that one puppy I've been going for personality. What is more important for me is bidability and a good temperament. But if the appearance is too much different than what you wanted, short vs. long, then you might be better off waiting for another litter.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"I use a mixture of Japanese, Chinese, and Native American languages in my commands for my girl (as well as hand signals and noises). " and the clever girl can blow you off in 3 languages ....


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

carmspack said:


> I know the SAR organizations in Ottawa area. If this what you plan to do then you chose the pup for that purpose. I know that the evaluations are brutal. The people are dedicated to an extreme and are required to be so. Winnow the chaff - . You want fun think of tracking . Even there best chances if you choose for the aptitude.
> 
> decide on what you want to do as a basis for your selection.



Well ... I want to do something fun and helpful, not be part of a brutal anything 

But for tracking that's good to know because the breeder is starting to do early tracking with some easy commands and kibble next week so will be good to know which has a good nose on him!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Liesje said:


> But why not have both? Also for me looks are not just about personal preference but the entire conformation of the dog....athleticism, size, whether the dog's coat type matches the climate and terrain, visual deterrence, etc. I don't want a dog I have to "get used to" in any capacity.


If I were planning on breeding, I would take MUCH more into account than temperament... the dog would have to be darn near perfect for what I want. For a pet/active companion, I don't care much about what the dog looks like, as long as he is healthy and fit. I definitely have my preferences for how a dog looks, but if it came right down to it, I'd pick the goat-ugly dog with a great temperament over a stunningly beautiful dog with mediocre temperament. 

But I wouldn't breed a goat-ugly dog. 

If I was going to be participating in a dog sport which requires a great deal of athleticism, I suppose I'd place a bit more emphasis on structure.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Liesje said:


> But why not have both? Also for me looks are not just about personal preference but the entire conformation of the dog....athleticism, size, whether the dog's coat type matches the climate and terrain, visual deterrence, etc. I don't want a dog I have to "get used to" in any capacity.


The ideal would be to have both. 

I asked for both and got both. I feel very lucky  I think Hans is the most gorgeous, sweetest, smartest, most wonderful German Shepherd on the planet. 

Still, I would take his personality and another color over his looks and a bad temperament any day. 

Temperament choice should come first, and what I was saying was, not a good idea to choose a dog just because he is the right color. You have to look at what comes with it, too, and if you don't like the temperament, either choose another color or wait.


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