# Vet advice on neutering Mojo



## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

So Mojo is 10 wks old and was recently at the vet. The vet was telling me to get him neutered at 6 months old. I explained that, although I have always done s/n early in the past, now I have decided to not neuter until after his first year to allow him to grow properly. 
She said the growth platelets have nothing to do with neutering and that if I wait then Mojo will pee all over my house. After that she says, come on Mojo tell mama to be a good dog owner....grrrr

She is my new(board certified) vet since we just moved and probably doesn't know how responsible I am as an owner but still .
I have never owned an unaltered pet before. What , if any , is true about the urination in the house?


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

I doubt I will follow her advice much ( that is not medically related) but just wanted everyone's opinion on here.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

My intact dog is 16 months old. Hasn't pee'd in the house since he was 10 weeks old. Now, he does want to mark every tree, fence, and mailbox on our walk. He does want to obsessively lick up the pee of girl dogs. In class, he makes goo-goo eyes at the girls and "puffs up" at the boys. But he's never pee'd in the house.

I left a vet because she kept referring to his testicles as "tumors." First time is funny, second time is annoying, third time you've lost my business.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

It is true that some unaltered males will mark indoors. However, not all will, and sometimes it is easily correctable through training. I see nothing wrong with waiting if you have him under control. They can't make you do it


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Singe is 16 months old, intact, has never marked in the house. Rayden wasn't neutered until after he was 2 years old, never marked in the house.

That behavior is a training issue, not a neutering issue. If you want to wait for the growth plates to close, then that is after the age of 2.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

I find it unproffessional that she is trying to scare you into neutering him. If you are a responsible owner and can keep him from producing "oops" litters then it is not her problem. 
I have had four unaltered dogs in the past (three mine, one my mother's) and none of them ever peed in the house.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Oh, MY! What the vets say these days! I agree with Kymmey, and hope her relationship with her clients don't lose her business if she keeps up with her condescending tone. 
My intact male is 3 yrs and has only had two accidents his whole life in my house(I've had him since he was 8 weeks old!)
I think smaller breeds tend to be harder to housebreak and may mark, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with neutering.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

Hugo is 2yrs old and still intact, he will be for another few months i think, but i've had him since November last year and he's marked maybe twice since he's been here. the smaller dogs i've fostered over the years were horrible about it, even after getting them altered. 

i think i'd find me someone that would be listening to me. i just recently left a "new" vet myself, cuz they don't freekn hear me AT ALL. talk to me like i'm some kind of 12yr old novice. dang, at 12 i was better educated than most of them. grrrrr


dw~


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

That's what I didn't like ....the fact that she wanted to make me worry made me mad.
Also she said that the growth plates don't close after neutering. I find many article that say otherwise. 

IDK , she was right on the money with Max's bone cancer.....also I should note that the vet and I both are in the same funding program to assist people that need help paying for s/n in our town. So I get she is big on s/n , as am I, but I am very capable of deciding when I do it.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

I would just tell her that you know what you are doing and he will be neutered when YOU decide it is time. If she does not respect that, then she is not professional and I would personally change vets.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

krystyne73 said:


> So Mojo is 10 wks old and was recently at the vet. The vet was telling me to get him neutered at 6 months old. I explained that, although I have always done s/n early in the past, now I have decided to not neuter until after his first year to allow him to grow properly.
> She said the growth platelets have nothing to do with neutering and that if I wait then Mojo will pee all over my house. After that she says, come on Mojo tell mama to be a good dog owner....grrrr
> 
> She is my new(board certified) vet since we just moved and probably doesn't know how responsible I am as an owner but still .
> I have never owned an unaltered pet before. What , if any , is true about the urination in the house?


Out of curiosity did you happen to ask her why she thought you should do it earlier versus later medically? (Did she have anything other then he would pee in your house?)


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

And we sure have another thread going on this.......has more info to ponder.

I have NEVER had a problem with an intact male GSD peeing in the house. NEVER. 

I actually refuse to see one of the vets at the clinic because of the constant neuter pressure. 

And then I get complements about how wonderful my males look. How tight and muscular they are and how nice their temperament is.


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## Tatonkafamily (Apr 6, 2012)

The vet I work for doesn't like GSD's or Rott's...he doesn't trust them and he believes in early spay neutering...very old school, but then again, he has been a vet longer than I have been alive....

That all being said, even he admits he LOVES all my dogs and even he admits there is merit to all the studies that say to wait to neuter large dogs later. We didn't neuter our Rotti till he was 18 months and Dr Moore never pressured me about it and when the time came, my husband ONLY allowed the surgery if Dr Moore did it 

That I mean by all this, is that you can like, even love your vet (as I do mine) and not agree on everything. Your vet said her piece and gave her advice and you just have to state your side and in the end go with your gut.

Oh and Taz only marked in the house twice and once was after a strange male dog had been in our house.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> And we sure have another thread going on this.......has more info to ponder.
> 
> I have NEVER had a problem with an intact male GSD peeing in the house. NEVER.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what your dogs look like have to do with peeing in the house


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

krystyne73 said:


> That's what I didn't like ....the fact that she wanted to make me worry made me mad.
> Also she said that the growth plates don't close after neutering. I find many article that say otherwise.
> 
> .


she is correct. the lack of hormones cause the growth plates to remain open, resulting in a "leggier" dog. Of course, most evidence shows that this is a minor height difference - centimeters I believe.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

krystyne73 said:


> What , if any , is true about the urination in the house?


It's a housebreaking issue. That's the only thing true about it.

Sometimes smaller dogs have problems viewing the entire house as "home" but generally speaking with large dogs it isn't an issue.

I never had to teach mine not to mark in the house. He just never has.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

vicky2200 said:


> It is true that some unaltered males will mark indoors. However, not all will, and sometimes it is easily correctable through training. I see nothing wrong with waiting if you have him under control. They can't make you do it


Some altered males will mark as well. It really is the individual dog and the training and not unaltered or altered that causes the problems.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> Some altered males will mark as well. It really is the individual dog and the training and not unaltered or altered that causes the problems.


THISSSS! :thumbup:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Draugr said:


> It's a housebreaking issue. That's the only thing true about it.
> 
> Sometimes smaller dogs have problems viewing the entire house as "home" but generally speaking with large dogs it isn't an issue.
> 
> I never had to teach mine not to mark in the house. He just never has.


My friend has a small dog that marked in the home only after other dogs came for a visit. After he was neutered he never did it again.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

llombardo said:


> My friend has a small dog that marked in the home only after other dogs came for a visit. After he was neutered he never did it again.


My friend's dog never marked until AFTER he was neutered lol. In fact, she has had to replace her carpets at least five times in the past couple years.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

shepherdmom said:


> Some altered males will mark as well. It really is the individual dog and the training and not unaltered or altered that causes the problems.





GsdLoverr729 said:


> THISSSS! :thumbup:


^ x2!!!!!!

Small dogs do tend to be harder to housebreak and are the more common house markers vs. larger dogs. But neutering has nothing to do with it. My brother has a Chihuahua who's been neutered for 8 years and to this day, marks the house.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

ChancetheGSD said:


> ^ x2!!!!!!
> 
> Small dogs do tend to be harder to housebreak and are the more common house markers vs. larger dogs. But neutering has nothing to do with it. My brother has a Chihuahua who's been neutered for 8 years and to this day, marks the house.


Good to know thanks! I haven't owned a "little" dog in decades so I am glad I most likely won't have any issues. So far He hasn't even peed in his crate so he should be fine.

I am hoping she doesn't bug me about it any more. I support s/n programs and like to help out needy people but I shouldn't feel pressured to do it until I feel I am ready. Thanks all!


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> she is correct. the lack of hormones cause the growth plates to remain open, resulting in a "leggier" dog. Of course, most evidence shows that this is a minor height difference - centimeters I believe.


So neutering could make him taller? I always thought neutering to early causes the males dogs to be smaller? 

I neutered my Great Dane at 6 mon and was later told that I runted him by doing it so early. Also I spayed Meika at 5 months and she suffered incontinence issues for years after that surgery.

Please know that I am not slamming altering pets, I do believe in S/N completely as an option, but not so early. I just want to know both sides of the issue before I choose.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've never had my dogs neutered and i've never
had any problems with them medically or socially.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> i've never had my dogs neutered and i've never
> had any problems with them medically or socially.


See? :3 It's a training thing, not an alteration ordeal.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

neutered early makes them "leaner" more puppy looking. They won't get their secondary sexual characteristics and fill out to look more mature.
The growth plates will stay open longer, since there will be no hormones to kick in and tell them to close. I've seen most studies say that the height difference isn't much, just a couple centimeters. 
Combine this with lack of sexual features (more muscle in males for example) and they can look "runty"


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> See? :3 It's a training thing, not an alteration ordeal.



roger that! 

:thumbup:


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I had a Pekingese who lived to be 18 and was intact for most of his life. That dog never once peed in the house after he was housebroken.

A vet neutered him at 14, without my permission. He was at the hospital for a procedure and the vet, on his own, decided to neuter him while he was under.

Needless to say, I was livid. My husband and I ended up taking it to the state veterinary board, and he was penalized. 

My dog was never the same after that. Lethargic, just not himself. Gained weight, too. 

I will never forget that, and cringe whenever I pass that clinic.


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Jun 20, 2011)

Maybe they were talking about the need to hike the leg to mark, as opposed to squatting. Neutering early just takes away the secondary behaviors, marking, some aggression, wandering for a mate. Its still all mute with training (well except the leg lift) and your personal decision. The fact that you have done it in the past and want to do it in the future, leads me to believe you are responsible enough to make the decision.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

I have had many males, all unneutered except for one done at five years for health resaons, none of them ever marked in my house or inside any other building.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

I have never had any issue with my vets after I tell them that it's going to be my decision. I think most of them realize when they are running up against an immovable object.

The most grief I've gotten from are the technicians. There was one vet that started to get pushy with me then shut up right away once she saw I knew what I was talking about and wasn't just leaving him intact because "it would be like neutering myself" or some philandro-centric nonsense like that.

The technicians were kind of funny. Tried to tell me that if I didn't neuter Samson he would most definitely get testicular cancer, grow breasts, and die. It was not very easy to stifle laughter. 

I looked that up when I got home, and there was a tiny (VERY tiny) grain of truth to it. Testicular cancer occurs in less than 1% of intact dogs (that stat includes those with retained testicles) and the type of cancer that *can,* in certain situations, cause enlargement of the mammaries, almost exclusively happens in retained testicles (and that type of cancer is unusual even then). Both of Samson's are where they should be. So we would be looking at a number so tiny I doubt it would even register.

Vets have a vested interest in pushing clients to neuter. They shouldn't be demonized for it. They do it for a good reason. Sometimes they get wrapped up a bit too far in it though and it is hard to see, after all the crap they deal with, the good owners. Don't be too hard on them if they don't see that in you right away.

The other end of the spectrum is that they just get jaded and stop caring, and say nothing, and that is arguably much, much worse.


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## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

My 2 year old un-neutered boy does not mark in the house. He does *love* to mark on walks and if I want him to cut it out I will tell him to 'leave it' and then tell him to 'sniff' when it is okay for him to mark.

My parents have a neutered Westie who is an obsessive marker.

My vet does not ask me about neutering Dax (although now I really am okay with doing although I don't look forward to unnecessary surgery). I'm actually surprised that he never asks us about it...


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

My intact 2 yr old male marks outside like a mad man but has never peed in the house (with the exception of puppy potty training at 9 weeks).

I'm not saying your shouldn't neuter, it's a personal choice but wanted to say your vets opinion about the marking is far fetched IMO.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Tell your vet you're planning on showing in the breed ring, that's what I was told to get him off my back about it.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I'll allow a vet to voice their opinion, but *I'm* the owner and therefore make the decision, I left a vet because they pressured me on issues. 

If you don't want to neuter early, then don't.

As to marking, the only dog that marks in the house that I personally know about is my sister's rescue doberman who they got when he was one. He was intact and they took him to be neutered a few weeks after they got him, he will mark in the house if you don't watch him

All the other intact/neutered males never mark in the house, he's the one exception


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Congrats, your vet is trying to manipulate you into giving her more money ASAP. 

My dog is intact at 11 months old and has never urinated in my home. She lied to you, and then tried to guilt you. How offensive for her to pull the "tell your mom to be a good owner" thing... disgusting behaviour. I would have told her where to go and left right on the spot.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

I have had two intact males that have never peed in the house, don't wander, aren't aggressive, and the oldest one lived until he was 12 with no problems.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Wild Wolf said:


> Congrats, your vet is trying to manipulate you into giving her more money ASAP.
> 
> My dog is intact at 11 months old and has never urinated in my home. She lied to you, and then tried to guilt you. How offensive for her to pull the "tell your mom to be a good owner" thing... disgusting behaviour. I would have told her where to go and left right on the spot.


I was also put off by that statement, not sure what I would have said but she would have known that was uncalled for.

I also wanted to add that my intact male has never "humped" anything, left our home and roamed or has been agressive, women & children are safe

He's also worked in class around other females and keeps his tongue in his mouth There was a few days a couple of months ago where I think a female was in heat in our area because he wanted to be outside with his nose in the air and would also roll around and act goofy. But we do not let him outside alone and are responsible, then whatever was getting his attention went away.

Again, not saying you should not neuter but don't do it under the pressure and bully behaviour of your vet.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

My male is over 2 years old now and intact, he doesn't pee in the house, he doesn't try to hump other dogs, he's not dog aggressive, and he doesn't try to test his role in the family with my wife or myself. None of the neuter scare tactics apply to him because all they are is propaganda with no truth. Tell your vet that while an intact dog may display those behaviors, a neutered dog is just as likely to do all those behaviors, so in the end the behaviors are not caused by the mere fact that your dog still has his testicles.

My intact male also hardly marks. He never really learned to lift his leg so hes still a squatter who occassionally moves a leg while peeing but he still squats and pees straight down. Ive seen him sniff around and mark in certain places, so I know he thinks about marking, but he doesn't go out of his way on walks, or outdoors to mark.

My parents have a female who has yet to be spayed, and when she goes into heat I have had my male around her (under control and unable to get to mount her) While he is very interested in the urine markings of females in heat, and he will do some real crotch sniffing, he does NOT have some out of control urge to mount her. Where some neutered dogs who have been around her have tried humping her relentlessly. This again shows me that my male having testicles does not make him some hormone infused demonic pet that I cannot control.

My in-laws have a neutered mixed breed and he will mark on walks and around the yard. He displays humping behaviors at the dog park and he also will get an uncontrollable urge to dominance hump while playing with my male. Sometimes he looks as if hes trying to mount him mid play, other times he will start uncontrollably humping the air. He does all this and he was fixed at like 6 months old in a shelter.

I could rant all day but the point is neutering is not an effective way to cure problems, or even prevent them. The status of a dogs testicles doesn't change anything about a dogs behavior except for the ability to fertilize a female during intercourse. All the information for neutering as a behavior tool is at most a correlation, and people see behaviors in dogs who are intact and believe its because they are intact but they turn a blind eye to the neutered dogs exhibiting the same behavior.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

krystyne73 said:


> After that she says, come on Mojo tell mama to be a good dog owner....grrrr


uhhh...'xcuse me, Doc, but that's not Scooby Doo so he can't answer your perfectly condescending and out of line comment but I will....


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

I, too, have seen a lot of humping at the dog park by neutered males, very common.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I've seen my SPAYED FEMALE hump another dog. It's not hormonal.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Draugr said:


> Vets have a vested interest in pushing clients to neuter. * They shouldn't be demonized for it. * They do it for a good reason. Sometimes they get wrapped up a bit too far in it though and it is hard to see, after all the crap they deal with, the good owners. Don't be too hard on them if they don't see that in you right away.


:thumbup:

I guarantee you vets see all ends of the spectrums, and more often than not, owners cannot be trusted to own intact pets. If they were, craigslist Pet section would be empty.

Also they went to school for a reason, they love animals - and they also need to pay off school loans and feed their families! Most the vets I know started their businesses themselves, purchased buildings to work in, all the equipment needed and have ongoing overhead expenses.

But they also do see the negative aspects (health ones) that come with owning intact and aging pets, and there is proof that altering a pet younger is easier on them (puppies heal faster, barely even blink at the surgery) so it behooves most owners to do it sooner than later.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> uhhh...'xcuse me, Doc, but that's not Scooby Doo so he can't answer your perfectly condescending and out of line comment but I will....


X2!


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