# Down in the dumps.....



## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Warning.....I am just feeling really down on myself and want to vent.....
So I had a rough year with neck and back problems, job change within the same company, and dealing with Stella's reactivity. I got real stressed out at Christmas because I felt like I was running around like a lunatic trying to do everything while dh and younger son (who originally got Stella and then couldn't keep her) were playing video games and watching tv....So I had a little melt down Christmas morning. OK. I had a big melt down. It was big enough to actual get my dh to take Stella for a nice long walk! Here we are a week later and I am finally starting to feel a bit better about things....until this afternoon. Went sledding with the family and brought Stella along. Everyone was having a good time. When it was time to leave I got Stella in the car and a couple of dogs came near. Stella did her usual nonsense of barking and just being a jerk. Turns out the 2 dogs were dogs she has played with in doggie day care. I asked their owner if she minded if I let Stella say hello. She was fine with it. Well, Stella was terrified. Tail between legs, hiding between my legs. I have never seen her do this before. Anyhow, we left and I just started feeling really down about myself. I just feel I am doing Stella a disservice. She is so smart and a really great dog but I just am a lousy trainer. She could be so much more in the right hands. Anyway, you get the idea of what was going through my head. Later this evening, my dh and I go out to dinner. I was going through the events of the day with Stella's fear and how I don't know what to do. His wonderful response....."I don't think you should have a dog like her. You can't handle her." Thanks a lot. I needed to hear that. So, that is my little rant for the day. Hope that 2013 brings better things for me and Stella......


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I don't have any great advice that will fix Stella. Sure there are better trainers than you or me. We do the best we can. You CAN handle Stella, because you ARE handling Stella. I didn't read that anyone else was doing anything. You have been through a lot of stuff - health, job and a stressful time of year. Stella is just the frosting on the cake right now. Take a deep breath and repeat after me...."Stella is just a dog. Stella is just a dog." Don't sweat the small stuff. You will get through this. Love Stella for who she is. Work through her issues as best you can. Manage what you can't change. It will make your life so much easier.

I doubt Stella would want to be with anybody, but you. In her eyes, you are perfect. (It's always really nice, when someone believes that about us.)

Hugs!
Jan


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I don't have any great advice that will fix Stella. Sure there are better trainers than you or me. We do the best we can. You CAN handle Stella, because you ARE handling Stella. I didn't read that anyone else was doing anything. You have been through a lot of stuff - health, job and a stressful time of year. Stella is just the frosting on the cake right now. Take a deep breath and repeat after me...."Stella is just a dog. Stella is just a dog." Don't sweat the small stuff. You will get through this. Love Stella for who she is. Work through her issues as best you can. Manage what you can't change. It will make your life so much easier.
> 
> I doubt Stella would want to be with anybody, but you. In her eyes, you are perfect. (It's always really nice, when someone believes that about us.)
> 
> ...


Jan just said everything I was going to say only better...so ditto..


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks. I needed that! And I am going to give Stella a big hug right now!!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

How old is Stella? 

Not every dog is a social butterfly. Not all dogs need to be a social butterfly. There are dogs out there, that are perfectly happy being the apple of your eye and they don't care if the rest of the universe disintegrated. 

Just love her. She may surprise you pleasantly as she matures.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

Guys "think" they are going to make you feel better when they say dumb stuff like that...  I've been there... LOL! Have faith in yourself, it'll work out


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

(Quote) I just feel I am doing Stella a disservice. She is so smart and a really great dog but I just am a lousy trainer. She could be so much more in the right hands.

I'm sure there are a quite a few of us here that are in the lousy trainer category. DW reminds me how inconsistent I am and well.. I am! I mix up the proper "commands" and there are other things I should work on too, but oh well, I try. I love my dogs and they love and respect me, so in the end, all is good.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Every day is a new day and no human or dog is perfect. You're working hard and loving her for who she is but pushing her to be better and that is what counts. 

I hope tomorrow is better :hugs:


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## Kath & Clan (Jun 6, 2012)

What Jan said!!

Stella loves YOU because you get her, the rest of the household is probably just furniture! Fear reactive dogs, reactive to other dogs or to people are a chanllenge. to say the least. Good group classes if available, affordable and attendable (schedule) help a lot. And Happy New Year. All things are possible.

Kathie


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> How old is Stella?
> 
> Not every dog is a social butterfly. Not all dogs need to be a social butterfly. There are dogs out there, that are perfectly happy being the apple of your eye and they don't care if the rest of the universe disintegrated.
> 
> Just love her. She may surprise you pleasantly as she matures.


Stella is 18 months. We have been working on this a while and had made some great progress. Guess we are just having a set back. Funny thing is that I think Stella would like to be a social butterfly. But she certainly fools all the other dogs! 

Tomorrow is another day.....


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## mchcthrn (Dec 26, 2012)

I think it's great that you are on this forum and that you care enough about your dog to want the best for her! That already makes you in the top percentage of dog owners (reading between the lines, Stella is one lucky girl!).


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I understand somewhat and can empathize with you!

I don't have any serious medical issues but I do have bad sciatica and arthritis so I'm in a lot of pain all the time and am unable to work as a result(and I'm only 30!)

My problem dog isn't my GSD but our Golden who we worked SO hard on training and socializing when he was a puppy. He's had bad resource guarding issues and recently he's begun just nipping dogs for very little reason... He's nipped two puppies this month who weren't doing anything but standing near him. He bit the tip of my Chi's ear off and nipped my GSD pup several times. We now know his triggers and have him on NILIF which has helped a great deal but because of his unpredictability around strange dog we can no longer let him be around a lot of dogs and be unleashed. Which is heartbreaking for all of us because he can't do the things he loves to do anymore.

It's also caused a lot of stress in my marriage, my husband gets very stressed when he does these things and then he blames me because I got the dog and he 'didn't want him'. It's been very rocky and things are starting to stabilize a bit but believe me I know how stressful these things can be! 

You're doing all you can for her, reactive dogs take a lot of work! I'm sorry your husband said that too, I know how it feels. :hugs:


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

To no fault of her own (or yours), Stella probably just doesn't have the best nerve base. You can't change a dog's gentics... she was probably just born a not so confident dog. Instead of trying to change her, you should just focus on managing and accepting her for what she is. With that way of thinking... I think training may be a little less stressful for both of you guys.

Like someone else mentioned... she's probably just not a social butterfly. That's fine, because that's who she is as long as you're willing to accept that.

My advice for future interaction would be no more saying hello. Instead of just walking up to dogs for a nose-on-nose interaction that makes Stella feel uncomfortable... try having her focus on you as you walk by the other dogs. How is her focus and heeling? Have you ever worked on that?

IMO, there's no reason for dogs to say hello to other dogs that they don't know. The best interactions are none at all if you ask me. Dog's don't need to be friends with other strange dogs. They're pack animals and as long as they're good and happy with their pack (your family), that's enough for a dog like Stella.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

It is an ongoing process! I have been living with a reactive GSD for six years now and it is often a two steps forward, one step back kind of life.

And dealing with our own chronic pain can make everything seem like such an effort. And when we do make the effort it seems like we aren't doing anything particularly well. I had cervical spine surgery in October and those last few weeks were just ridiculously impossible. Including, but not limited to, my own meltdown about four days before I ended up in the emergency room and then later that same day having surgery. I felt silly after the meltdown, but there is only so much we can juggle before we lose the balance.

Go easy on yourself. Take a deep breath and tell yourself that it will get better. 
Sheilah


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## Dotty (Mar 19, 2012)

I have 2 reactive shepherd pups!

I know how you feel. I try not to let myself get down about the dogs for too long, I always think feeling sorry for myself is a luxury I can't really afford, the time I spend feeling badly, I need to use that time to train them and feel good.

I am a terrible trainer too, a big softee.

We can do it!


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

So very glad I am on this forum. Have learned so much. I needed a Stella break yesterday and put her in the doggie day care for 4 hours. It was so great to see her response when we first got there. She "peeked" through a window in the facility to see some dogs playing, and I swear she looked like she was smiling Her tail was doing a happy dance too. It was so great to see that after her crazy terrified reaction to 2 other dogs the other day. 

How do those of you with chronic pain exercise your dogs? 

Her focus is not the best. This is something we are working on. She tends to look all over the place. 

And I am convinced now that men really are from another planet... Last night at a friend's New Years gathering, a few of us decided that 2012 was not a great year and we were glad it was over. My dh looked at me and asked, "What was so bad for you besides the holiday meltdown and the Newtown shooting?" I was not sure quite what to say....fortunately my friend replied and said,"Hello???!! Pain pretty much every day? Several ER visits, and procedures??? Duh." 

Well, 2012 is over and I am hoping for a good 2013. Will start with baby steps with Miss Stella. Am going to try and avoid dogs for a while, other than the ones in her training classes and at day care. Then I will try and get her to just "see" other dogs at a distance. But of course there are no real dog free areas. Hoping that the cold weather deters most other people and me and my girl can just have a good walk. After that....we'll see.

Happy New Year.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

everyday is the begining of a New Year. drop the wimpy,
whiney. start training again. because your dog is reactive
doesn't mean it's your fault. get everybody on board with
the training and socializing. happy new training, happy new
socializing, happy new dog, Happy New year.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

no hoping. hoping is defeatist. you're going to have a
great life to the end because you're going to make
it happen.



katdog5911 said:


> Well, 2012 is over and I am hoping for a good 2013.
> 
> Happy New Year.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Sure would be nice if everyone was on board with the training. Not happening though. I am the only one who does any training or pretty much anything other than a 10 minute ball toss or a little indoor playtime. Don't have any kids at home anymore so it is 99.999% on me. Not so terrible when one is feeling well but it is quite difficult on the days when I can hardly move my head off the pillow due to pain. Fortunately I have not had it that bad in about 2 months. 
But by tomorrow everyone is done with vacations and visits so maybe things will get a bit less crazy and I can do my thing with Stella. 
Not sure I agree that hope is defeatist. I kind of lean towards no hope is defeatist. If I didn't have hope that things would improve.....:crazy:


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

you've been thru alot with stella, and I think you should be congratulated for hanging in there)) 

I think it's great that she loves doggy daycare! I agree with the others about trying to avoid outside influences when you can..BUT an "idea",,since she gets along great with the dogs at daycare (I know your OP, said you ran into a couple and she was scared)..
Can you get together with a couple of those dogs/owners and even take a good walk outside of the daycare,,I don't mean meet up somewhere, but walk out the daycare door and go for a walk???? I'd work on that if you can buddy up with someone, and then expand her horizons by meeting up with them somewhere else.

Hey 2013 has GOT to be better right? )) Hang in there, your doing yourself a disservice by thinking your a lousy trainer, Stella is probably a dog that will teach you everything about dog behavior and then some


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

I am hearing things a little different. It sounds like there are many things going on in your life that are making you stressed. I also have chronic pain from my back and joints. Every single day is a battle. You're not alone. First and foremost, you need to get your pain addressed. If you don't currently have a doc that's addressing it, then you need to get a new one. Check into alternative pain control if your insurance will cover it or if you can afford it. If not (or maybe at the same time) find a pain doctor that can work something out to manage your pain. With some pain control comes the ability to deal with other things a little better. Days that I'm in a lot of pain, every single thing seems like a HUGE deal and I want to strangle someone. :crazy: Leave the stress of your job when you walk out the door from work. Don't think about it at all once you leave. Don't overwhelm yourself with errands, housework, holidays, etc. Do what you can do and lower the expectations of yourself. 

NOW- when your pain is addressed and you've left work at work and you've stopped trying to please others and have lowered your own expectations down to what you can handle... you'll see that your dog is who she is. Lower your expectations of her, also. No one is perfect, no dog is perfect (although we tend to see their good points or how they could be better). Try to see what life lessons you can learn from her.. just the way she is. She is in your life for a reason. There are things you can teach her, and things you can learn from her. Slow down and enjoy this time that she's in your life. I had a crazy, unpredictable bitch. She'd just attack people randomly without so much as a growl or showing her teeth.  I tried for years to get her to ignore people (which she learned) and to not attack people (which she NEVER learned). I spent a lot of time and money and effort trying to change her basic genetic makeup. It was never going to happen. It was like banging my head into a brick wall. Then for years I just enjoyed her at home. I tried my best to keep people safe. She was SO sweet in the house. We were her pack. There were lessons to learn from her. 

I think that when the other things in your life are under control, you'll feel better about her. Forget what your husband said. Take care of YOU first. Then (and only then) can you care for others... like your dog. It will be OK, but the path you're on isn't working. You have to change something, and it's not about your dog. Good luck to you!!


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I have asked at the daycare if they knew of anyone interested in get togethers. Maybe I will ask again. I rarely see anyone coming or going from there at the same time as me. On the few times we did, there was no problem. 
The reaction she had to the 2 dogs she knew from daycare was just so extreme and bizarre. I have never ever seen her act so terrified. And neither dog was doing anything that warranted Stella's reaction. 

I have to say, even at her worst, she usually would settle down with another dog after a while, especially if we were just walking together. 

For now I guess I will just use the daycare so she can get some positive dog interactions and playtime. I was thinking of letting her go again today but I was watching the facility on the webcam they have and I didn't see any of her buddies there....plus most of the dogs were just laying around. Maybe tomorrow or Thursday...then Friday it is back to class.

I will try and avoid other dogs during walks for now. Maybe we can take a peek at the dog park from a distance and just let her watch. Not that I have any plans on taking her there. But I think I will bring some tasty treats and try to have her associate dogs with that. I am thinking we may have to be far away for her to stay calm. 

On a positive note, my old boy who generally has no use for Stella, has been giving her a little play time when outside. He doesn't last too long, (his back knees are a problem)but it gives her a little fun.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think that is a good idea, observe from afar, let her observe

Sometimes our dogs will react to something so off the wall, we can't even imagine where it came from,,and will never really be able to figure out, if only they could talk.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Hi, 
First off, stop beating yourself up. I've been through over 2200 posts, and I still haven't figured it out. I commend you for tackling this head on, and NOT giving up. You WILL be rewarded in the end. Hang in there.

Are you certain that daycare is a positive experience for her? Maybe she gets abused by other dogs, and is feeding her fear.

What I HAVE learned, is that certain dogs simply are not good with other dogs.. period. Kira is one of them. It took me a long time to accept this. I was in complete denial. In my mind, "socializing" meant playing with other dogs. Kira does make me think she wants to play, but she obviously doesn't get along too well. She has _fear_ like Stella, and other dogs pick up on it, and turn her into today's prey.

I also think that allowing Stella to meet the dog she was just barking (reacting) at, was a bad idea. The level of excitement could only get her in trouble. Either another dog will feel threatened by her, or not buy into her bluff, and become aggressive.
Also want to add that Stella should not have been allowed to create mayhem in your house. That's where a crate comes in handy. Sometimes, they just need a time out. Stella picks up on the high energy and anxiety, and only escalates.
Kira will sometimes get SO EXCITED about having guests, I've had to crate her away from the action to get her into a calm state. It works like a charm. It turns that switch right off.

Is there a possibility that you're putting too much effort into your dog? Giving everything she does, too much thought? Over analyzing her every move and action? Too eager to please her?
I was guilty of all of the above. When I finally backed off, and made her adjust to MY life, and not worry too much about socializing, reactivity, etc.... She settled into my home, nicely.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Jag, you are right. Everything is harder when stress exacerbates the pain. 

For now work is under control or as under control as possible. I am going to a pain doctor and we are trying to get things under control. I was scheduled for an RFA back in September but thanks to Hurricane Sandy, it was postponed. Of course I developed a terrible cold/cough and it had to be postponed again. Before I could get it rescheduled, I wound up in the ER. They tried a new little cocktail of pain medication and it worked. My pain doc said if I am feeling ok, then let's just put off this RFA for now. I agreed. So, things were not too bad for a while there. But I really have to watch out that I don't overdo things. (which of course has been happening during the past few weeks) No one in my family seems to get it....simple things that I used to be able to do without a moment's thought, I cannot do now. Or I pay the price. It is so very frustrating. Last night all I did was play "Just Dance" on the Wii. That was enough to set off some neck pain. Grrrrrr. 

So my resolution is that I will have to make a conscious effort to not be so hard on myself and Stella.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Anthony-I do believe daycare is positive. She never hesitates to go in and I think I said somewhere before that yesterday when she went, she had a peek in the window and she just looked so happy and eager to say hello to her friends. I talk to the owner about her and the only issue Stella has ever had is with other little dogs....her prey drive kicks in. But they handle it. The neat thing about this place is that there are webcams in every area. I get to watch what is going on. So far I haven't seen any negative. Of course I don't watch every second of her time there. (well, at first I did.) 

I probably do try to analyze her too much. And I think I do let her run my life a bit too much. Will have to think about how to change this.

Did I say she created mayhem in my house? I don't remember that. She is generally well behaved even when there is company. She will go into her crate on her own if she needs some downtime. The only mayhem is when my 3 year old grandchild comes over.....he leaves toys all over and Stella thinks they are new chew toys for her! And I don't trust any dog with a 3 year old so it is a lot of watching both of them. They seem to have a lot in common!!!!

I guess I have still not fully convinced myself that she is not good with other dogs. She seems to really enjoy playing with them once she knows them. But maybe this is another thing to think about.

Curious....how did you get Kira to settle down with other dogs? I know from your previous posts that Kira had issues....


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

katdog5911 said:


> So my resolution is that I will have to make a conscious effort to not be so hard on myself and Stella.


I made this exact same resolution! I just had to come to terms that my Golden just wasn't going to be the dog I could take places off leash with other dogs like I'd always wanted... It's disappointing for sure but when I get down I try to think of all his good points... How amazing he is with my GSD puppy, Ollie and how far he's come on the NILIF program.

As far as pain goes, I am not on any pain medication ATM... None of the anti inflammatories I tried worked and my doc won't prescribe me anything with narcotics even though they help and I've never been addicted to them.

So right now I'm trying natural supplements so the future will tell. When I can't get out and walk my GSD I play tug with him and use a flirt pole which tires him out. Though not sure how those would work with your neck problems.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

katdog5911 said:


> Anthony-I do believe daycare is positive. She never hesitates to go in and I think I said somewhere before that yesterday when she went, she had a peek in the window and she just looked so happy and eager to say hello to her friends. I talk to the owner about her and the only issue Stella has ever had is with other little dogs....her prey drive kicks in. But they handle it. The neat thing about this place is that there are webcams in every area. I get to watch what is going on. So far I haven't seen any negative. Of course I don't watch every second of her time there. (well, at first I did.)
> 
> I probably do try to analyze her too much. And I think I do let her run my life a bit too much. Will have to think about how to change this.
> 
> ...


*
*

I didn't. 

I decided to take the advice and stay away from other dogs. I don't speak canine, I'm not CM, and nor am I qualified to figure out to read the _signals_.... No matter how much I talk about it, or read about it.
Kira WILL bark at other dogs. If i'm near her, she will stop on command. If she's in my home, and a dog walks by the front, she will go bonkers, until I call her off. She will NOT stop on her own. I've noticed that she will lunge at small dogs, and scare the heck out of them. She's apprehensive with larger dogs. Still unsure of the result of an encounter. She's been attacked before, and she knows it.
She's 100% neutral with people, when leashed or off leash in public. 
She's unpredictable in my home, with strangers.. 99% of the time, she accepts guests. Every so often, she'll scare the cr*p out of someone for no reason. ( I honestly can't see a pattern, or reason). Because of this, I now secure her when stranger enter. I will either keep her in a down, stay next to me, or I've instructed my family to crate her when guests come over. She has NEVER been comfortable with guests in my house. It took me a while to understand and recognize it

As you can see, I have her number in most cases, and do my best to rebut her actions. I treat each scenario as it happens.
Yes, they are a lot of work. Kira is a handful.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

Katdog ... It's good that she has such fun at doggie daycare ... that can certainly take the edge off all that energy. 

A "re-suggestion" - I would put up a poster if you can at the daycare asking for the owners of Stella's "faves" at the daycare if they are interested in playdates. 

Ky has tons of friends ... she's got about 30 dog friends that she simply loves to play with. BUT, depending on the dogs that she's with, sometimes it's only her and her other friend. There's a couple sets of "threes" (including Ky) that she plays very well with ... but more than her and another dog (not including those other three) is usually trouble - too much energy, and then whammo ... there's a scrap (I mean scrap too, not fighting.)

I have about 10 different friends (Ok, they were originally Kyleigh's friends LOL) that I rotate playdates with on a very regular basis. It works beautifully, and I never have to worry about the outcome when we are out with these dogs. 

On another note - if you feel that someone else can do a better job that you can ... you're right ... there is ALWAYS someone out there that is better than we are ... that's just the way it is ... that's life. No matter what we think we are really good at (and we can be AWESOME at it) someone out there is better ... does that mean that Stella would be better off with them? I'll let you answer that question!

All the changes you want to make for yourself and for Stella ... the FIRST place you have to start ... positive thinking ... and in how you write it down ... doggiedad had it bang on ... don't HOPE for a better year ... DO a better year

Set manageable goals that you want to fulfill. Write them down and put them up somewhere. 

Have a goal that you can do daily (i.e. walk the dog for 2 miles). Have a goal that you can complete in a week (teach Stella a new command - make it a fun one). Have a goal that you can complete in a month (mark at the beginning of the month an unwanted behaviour of Stella's and work towards fixing it - mark at the end of the month the progress ... i.e. reacted at 10 feet to a squawking duck ... brought it down to 4 feet). And finally, set 3 quarterly goals ... (reorganize the living room, redo the bathroom) ... BUT, and here's the key ... these three goals are ALL about YOU ... and no one else. 

I'm one of "those" insanely organized individuals that drive people nuts .. I have all my goals for the year (just like I outlined above) listed on a piece of paper and it's taped to my wall by my computer. I have completely structured my days, and Ky's training was pretty much mapped out from the day I brought her home (yes, there was lots of rearranging LOL ... she is a dog, not a robot!!!) ... but I had everything down on paper and it made it easier to tackle when something wasn't working out. 

I hope this helps you, and looking forward to reading about all the WONDERFUL POSITIVE things that WILL happen to you in 2013


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

It sounds like you've done everything you can,should ,ought to. Your a good dog parent and definitely from your posts handle Stella. Its hard to live w/ a "specail needs dog'. While Daisy was wonderful as she got older if I had to relive her first 3 to 3.5 years I would have no hair. I managed her based on what she could handle. You really work on things w/ Stella and that can be so tiring. BTW Daisy had two aggressive episodes both during the holiday season. I think holidays with the disruption of routine and lots of bustle are tiring and stressful for everyone. It is also hard when you need someone to say "This is not you,your doing a good job and you dont hear it. I also think sometimes you just need to blow the steam off and let family know what you need. I also think venting is a great stress reliever. Wishing you and Stella a great New Year filled w/ peace and relaxation
Maggi


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> [/B]
> 
> I didn't.
> 
> ...


How did you get her to stop on command? When Stella gets into reactive mode I don't think she even hears my commands. By then it is too late.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I am so very very thankful to have found this forum. It never fails to help me. 

Unfortunately, I am an organized person in theory....just not in practice! Left on my own devices, I think I tend to fly by the seat of my pants.(is that the right expression?) But that is hard to do with Miss Stella Bella. I definitely need a bit more organization.

I would love to find a few good walking buddies. I will talk to the doggie day care again. And also at the training classes.(but these are a bit far away)
From past experience having doggie friends is not fool proof either. My 9 1/2 yr old newfie x had a ton of doggie friends. We met just about every morning and the dogs all romped around while the humans walked. It was wonderful. Then one day Ruben, my dog, lost his mind and bit one of the other dogs. He was starting to get a bit more aggressive towards all dogs in general. This started after he was attacked at a dog park. At the time, I just wasn't able to work with him on it so his time of doggie friends came to an end. He has been able to be with some other dogs, not many, and of course he came to accept Stella. I am sure he does not feel deprived in any way. just I was really hoping to have a dog that I could take everywhere this time around.

I have a flirt pole and Stella is learning to enjoy it. I liked one that was mentioned earlier by Squishy dog or something like that. I may get that one. That same company also made a tug toy you put around a tree. I just wonder if Stella would enjoy tugging with a tree instead of me or Ruben. It would certainly help my neck issues if she did!

Carriesue-what natural supplements are you on? And do they really help?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

katdog5911 said:


> How did you get her to stop on command? When Stella gets into reactive mode I don't think she even hears my commands. By then it is too late.


It's not just that command, it's more of the foundation of basic commands that I've taught her, that allow me to gain control, when she's in that state.
I can call her off anything, or anyone. I can get her attention just by calling her off. That came with basic training that I've done at home.

When I see that she might be going into that heightened state, I would attempt to catch it early, and simply call her off. Just a few minutes ago, she went bonkers at the front window of my home. I'm in the back of my house, about 45-50 feet away. When she started barking, I called her back, and gave her the "mat" command. Even though she was huffing and puffing, she went to her mat, and calmed down. That's the best I could do. Whether it's what a pro trainer would do or not, I really don't know, but it works for me.

So I guess it starts with the basic commands.

Carmen, Freestep, and a few others had to drill me about exposing Kira to uncomfortable situations. Maybe it would be best to keep her away from all the stimulation of other dogs. 
I spend ALL my time ALONE with Kira. No dogs at all. Her attention level has been superb. It may be something you need to do. At least for now.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> Carmen, Freestep, and a few others had to drill me about exposing Kira to uncomfortable situations. Maybe it would be best to keep her away from all the stimulation of other dogs.
> I spend ALL my time ALONE with Kira. No dogs at all. Her attention level has been superb. It may be something you need to do. At least for now.


Hmmmm. I believe that was how I started with John more or less. Avoid all dogs as best as possible. Then he started the foundation and trained me and then dogs were allowed again. 
I don't think Stella is uncomfortable in the daycare. She only goes for a few hours when I need a break. And she seems ok in the obedience class (not John's) she is in. I am going to at least start by giving her a break from dogs that she doesn't know, in places she doesn't know. As best I can anyway. There seem to be dogs everywhere!!! Hard to find a place to walk without other dogs. Maybe the cold weather will keep them indoors.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

katdog5911 said:


> Hmmmm. *I believe that was how I started with John more or less. Avoid all dogs as best as possible. Then he started the foundation and trained me and then dogs were allowed again. *
> I don't think Stella is uncomfortable in the daycare. She only goes for a few hours when I need a break. And she seems ok in the obedience class (not John's) she is in. I am going to at least start by giving her a break from dogs that she doesn't know, in places she doesn't know. As best I can anyway. There seem to be dogs everywhere!!! Hard to find a place to walk without other dogs. Maybe the cold weather will keep them indoors.


I started a thread about the CM workshop, and how much one can accomplish in a single week-long workshop. THIS is precisely what I was talking about. Only so much anyone could do, in so little time.
John (trainer) started with one on one, and no dogs. Stella started to respond, otherwise John would not have allowed other dogs. In this case, John felt confident that he could handle Stella in a heightened state. John is a professional with 40 years of dog handling. In our case, I think we need more time to work on Stella, without the stimulation of other dogs.

This may not be the best overall advice for anyone, but if Stella is reactive like Kira, removing her may calm her down, and allow you to strengthen her obedience base. 

I once spoke to someone in a Shutzhund class. If I recall, he was telling me that they don't allow their dogs to interact. They want their dogs to enjoy to interact with the handlers, not other strange dogs.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> I started a thread about the CM workshop, and how much one can accomplish in a single week-long workshop. THIS is precisely what I was talking about. Only so much anyone could do, in so little time.
> John (trainer) started with one on one, and no dogs. Stella started to respond, otherwise John would not have allowed other dogs. In this case, John felt confident that he could handle Stella in a heightened state. John is a professional with 40 years of dog handling. In our case, I think we need more time to work on Stella, without the stimulation of other dogs.
> 
> This may not be the best overall advice for anyone, but if Stella is reactive like Kira, removing her may calm her down, and allow you to strengthen her obedience base.
> ...


More food for thought. I have been so intent on wanting to socialize her with other dogs and for her not to react to other dogs that I have perhaps not spent enough time on getting her to focus on me. Although I don't know how the heck to get her to focus on me when there are so many more interesting things.... At OB class there is no interaction allowed with other dogs until after class. But maybe I need to change my priorities.... Now how to build focus........??????


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

katdog5911 said:


> More food for thought. I have been so intent on wanting to socialize her with other dogs and for her not to react to other dogs that I have perhaps not spent enough time on getting her to focus on me. Although I don't know how the heck to get her to focus on me when there are so many more interesting things.... At OB class there is no interaction allowed with other dogs until after class. But maybe I need to change my priorities.... *Now how to build focus.*.......??????


^^^ THIS is the REAL problem^^^

Go back to basics, and instead of focusing on her reactivity, don't put her in situations, where she could become reactive.
Instead, start a step by step "back to basics". Get Stella's attention when you need to. 
I started with a strong "leave it". In a pinch, if I wanted her "away" from something, a serious "LEAVE IT" would let her know I mean business.
It could start with something as simple as a treat in front of her, and reinforcing the leave it command. Then I stretched it out to shoes, and various items in the house. Then ( as I would walk past other dogs), I good "leave it" would keep her walking, and look ahead.

*Does Stella act like this? *
There was a cat sitting in front of my house. Kira was off leash, and I happen to catch her. She was only a year old at the time.
To this day, I can't stop this behavior INSIDE my home, but she doesn't do this on leash, or walking with me off leash.






When she was only 10 months, I was working her leave it.
Does she know Leave it?

Here's my own personal exercise I used to do to strengthen her leave it.
I guess this was her final exam


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

katdog5911 said:


> More food for thought. *I have been so intent on wanting to socialize her with other dogs and for her not to react to other dogs that I have perhaps not spent enough time on getting her to focus on me. * Although I don't know how the heck to get her to focus on me when there are so many more interesting things.... At OB class there is no interaction allowed with other dogs until after class. But maybe I need to change my priorities.... Now how to build focus........??????


That's why I asked you if you feel that you may be doing too much. I fell into that trap too. All I was concerned about, was socialize, socialize. I wanted her to be everyone's friend (dogs included). Unfortunately, it didn't work that way for me. She was attacked as a young pup, and IMO never forgot it. I wanted, SO BADLY for her t play with some of the local dogs. And each time I tried, it backfired. I had to really come to grips that it was in her best interest, to have me and my family as her playmates.
That's not saying that Stella won't play with other dogs, but it does seem like you need to catch up on focus, before setting her free.

Just my opinion.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Anthony, Stella has doggie friends at daycare thats great, big accomplishment for you and her I think...I'd keep those doggie friends.

She doesn't "need" to be social with dogs outside her 'circle' of friends, just learn to ignore them/deal with them in the area. She doesn't 'need' them in her immediate space

I like your idea of observing the dog park from afar, actually observing ANYTHING from afar, to work on desensitizing her to other dogs out and about.

If there's a reaction, back up to the spot where there is no reaction only observance.

I also teach all my dogs a good "leave it"..

When Masi was very young she was nailed by a few dogs that bullied her,,brought out her defense mode quite fast and I had to retrain / rework that behavior, that EVERY dog she saw was did not mean "I'm gonna get you before you get me"..

Teaching that "leave it", and maturity proved to work. If I'm out walking where I know I'll run into dogs, if I see one approaching (on leash not loose),,even before a reaction I just say "leave it",,she does, we pass, no problem. To her, "leave it" means a few things, leave whatever your doing, or don't bother reacting just leave it alone I've got you covered.

Charging dogs is another thing, you (general you),,can't expect a dog to not react when it's being charged by a dog that they do not know , they are going to either react out of fear or react to defend itself..Masi has high defense drives and tho I've never had a dog actually physically 'attack' her from a charge, I use "leave it" when say, a dog is circling us, and she can shut off that defensive behavior.

All of the gsd's I've had/have, had/have a circle of doggie friends that they interacted with no problems, I never have felt they needed to be "friends" with every dog they meet..

Just rambling here)


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

After reading everything here, and thinking it through, I have decided-
*New Year, new FOCUS! * 
I would love to be able to join a group of people and their dogs for outings and walks etc. But for now that is not going to happen. I think I have been way to focused (there's that word again) on socialization and being friendly with every dog. She has been socialized from day 1...met other dogs, went to stores, took trips etc. I guess for whatever reason she is not confident with certain things and I will just have to accept that. At this point I will _focus_ on getting her attention on me. She knows "leave it" but I will work on making it bomb proof. 
Any good suggestions for training good focus? In the house I can get her totally focused on me if I have treats. In the yard we do ok too. I have been working on "fuss" with her and trying to keep her attuned to me. We take a few steps and if she is looking at me, treat. Also have her walk with me and then I will throw a treat away from me and if she wants another one she has to come back and walk with me. 
Any other ideas???


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm glad you're feeling better. 

I think you're closer than you realize. You just had a meltdown. Been there, done that, myself. 

Work on a solid leave it and recall. Don't let up. Do it every day. Don't forget, Leave it also shows authority. She needs to know this.

You'll be fine, and so will Stella. She's just a GSD.. And the more I look around, the more I see that she's more the norm, then we think.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I am feeling much better after a few successful leave its when seeing another dog. I am trying to avoid dogs but obviously it doesn't always work In between 2 training classes today I took Stella for a walk in a wooded area. I never see anyone back there. I let her off leash for a bit and just let her run back and forth. Of course....you guessed it....other dog off leash. She started barking, as did the other dog. I started running in the opposite direction after yelling leave it. She looked confused...dog???mom???dog???mom??? Then I yelled "goodbye Stella" and she came running back Kept on walking. Of course Stella was on high alert but calmed down after a couple of leave it commands. As we got to the end of the trail, we saw that it wasn't just 1 loose dog....there were 5 of them with 1 person!!!! So glad she choose "mom" instead of "dogS":wild:

Question.....what do you do if a dog is charging? We had a minor charge during class today. (and Stella did NOT initiate it) A dog that was not being held on a leash decided to come barking towards Stella. Stella was being held on a leash by me. She had been laying down. Of course she jumped up and barked back. The 2 of them had a bark at each other time until the other dog decided to listen to the "come" command her owner gave her. What would have been the best thing for me to do?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

GOod job Stella! I have done that before with my aussie, who'd chase a bird to china if I let her..I just yell, BYE I'm going for a RIDE IN THE CAR!  

Second question, that scenerio is something that tick me off I realize accidents happen, but keep the dog on a leash (other person ...

Hard to say "how" to react..Masi and I were in a class where she was charged/barked at, picked on by bigger dogs,,that class lasted two times for me, and I yanked her out of it, cause the trainer was a freaking idiot who allowed alot of inappropriate behavior to take place. 

In your situation, I most likely would have stood up and walked stella in the opposite direction,,(come on let's go) but things happen so fast sometimes you have no time to react

It was totally normal of her to jump up and bark back,,


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Yea...I wasn't mad at her for barking back. Just wondering if I should have corrected her for barking. I don't really think she did anything wrong. But I do think she should stop when I say leave it. And it happened so fast. I don't know why that dog decided to run toward Stella. She was looking around but not in that intense stare down way.


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## allryuken (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't post much but I just wanted to comment because i feel for you...

Try not to project your expectations onto your dog and get down when she doesn't have the personality you love... we all love that idea of the perfect dog who behaves perfectly in every situation.. but sometimes it just isn't that way. They each have their own unique personalities.

Love your dog for who she is and try to support and help her grow. Every dog will be different and you will be able to have a FANTASTIC loving bond and relationship with your dog.

Sure, set goals for her and try to help her grow, but just because she was a bit timid around two other dogs is no reason to get down. Let her be who she is and don't put that pressure on her or yourself, and you will become a better trainer.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Yup...Stella is a bit afraid of strange dogs. I guess she doesn't have the best nerves. Don't know why...she used to play with other dogs. But she is who she is. I am going to try my best to build her confidence around other dogs. And to stop once and for all her reactivity. One trainer described it as the "I'll be a jerk before you are a jerk" syndrome. We had a bunch of good days this week. Have been avoiding other dogs for now as best we can. Gave up going on a nice hike with a bunch of ladies tomorrow because another dog is going. Might have been ok but there will be other hikes... 
Spoke to trainer about e collar....finally understand how to use it. She is getting much better with the "leave it" command in the yard when she starts barking at the neighbors animals, and just in general. Got her prong collar resized, (it was too tight) and am feeling so much better about walking her.
My immediate goals are 1. better focus 2. dependable "leave it" and 3. dependable recall (which trainer is going to work with me next time in how to use the e collar for that)
And if that isn't enough, we'll throw in some fun commands that she has been working on....back, weaving through my legs, crawling, rolling and doing some other "dance" moves.....:happyboogie:


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