# Biting ear of playmate and not letting go?



## Oliver'smom (Aug 15, 2013)

Oilver is my GSD, just over 6 months old. Charlie is the neighbors wheaten terrier mix and is 8 months old. Neither pup has been neutered yet. 

The neighbor and I have been meeting a few mornings a week in a nearby soccer field to let the pups play. They have played together really well all summer. Oliver now out weighs Charlie by a good 30 lbs. Oliver goes 2x week to doggie daycare, obedience class weekly and often plays with other dogs. Charlie's owner doesn't do any formal training with him other than walking and is an older man with an old school way of dealing with dogs. He really isn't my favorite person, but the dogs being nearly the same age and living close by has brought us together. 

2 weeks ago, as play time ended and Charlie's owner was putting his leash and collar back on, Oliver made one last wrestle lunge at Charlie and snagged his ear. Charlie let out a large yelp but Oliver didn't let go. I grabbed Oliver by the scruff of his neck, while Charlie's owner started trying to pull Charlie away (which didn't help, because Oliver obviously had a good hold on the ear and pulling mean it hurt Charlie more). I told Oliver to "drop it" and he slowly let go of Charlie's ear. 

At the time we chalked the incident up to the boys playing too hard. And Charlie's ear appeared to be fine (no puncture or blood) and he still wanted to wrestle with Oliver (several attempts to re-start the play as we put the leashes on and headed in opposite directions). 

I went out of town for a few days and Oliver had an allergy flare up so we didn't see the Charlie and the neighbor for a 2 weeks until this morning. We were walking opposite directions on the street, but the neighbor crossed over so the dogs could say hi. Oliver and Charlie both jumped to start wrestling on the sidewalk (leashes still on). Within 30 seconds of the playing initiating, Oliver grabbed Charlie's ear and Charlie instantly started to loudly whimper. I again grabbed Oliver by the scruff of his neck with one hand and put my hand on his jaw to pull it down so he would let go of Charlie's ear. This wasn't happening fast enough for the neighbor, so he decided to hit Oliver on the head. Oliver let go of Charlie's ear. He hit him harder than I'm comfortable with, but I'm giving him a bit of leeway since his dog was indicating distress. Oliver didn't yelp or indicated distress when hit, but did look like "what was that for?" since he has never been treated like that before.

Interesting thing is Charlie, after getting his ear freed, immediately wanted to jump back to wresting with Oliver. Again, no blood or puncture when we checked his ear. I stopped this and said to the neighbor the boys should cool off and I didn't want to put them in a position where Oliver would get the ear again and Charlie would be in distress. I suggested they head one way down the street and we would go the other to finish the walk. 

As mentioned, I don't really enjoy spending time with this guy (he rants about politics while the dogs play and I don't share his political views at all. I am really just doing the play time to help the dogs wear out and socialize, but we have other options like doggie day care and other friends with dogs) and I'm not comfortable with anyone hitting dogs unless in really extreme situations (to stop an attack etc) so I think we are done with play time with Charlie. I don't want to put Oliver in a position that will endanger him and I don't want Charlie to get hurt either. So this play match up is likely over for the foreseeable future. 

However, I'm curious if anyone has any advice on what to do if this ever happened in the future where Oliver in playing latches onto another dog and won't let go after a whimper? I'm asking in a situation where the dogs have been playing well together, not a situation where the dogs start out aggressive and hackles are raised.

He plays really well at doggie day care and at his puppy obedience class and I've watched him respect the whimper on other dogs (and on me when I have yelped as we have worked on play biting and mouthing). In fact the doggie day care staff says he is a totally sweetie and has plays really well with shy dogs in particular. 

I have observed that Charlie is a bit of a wimp, he whines quickly and easily, so I wonder if Oliver decided to ignore his whimper because he knows the play bite doesn't really hurt Charlie until he makes some other louder whimper or other sign of distress? Perhaps ears are extra sensitive and Oliver doesn't realize it because his are smaller and pointy and Charlie has big floppy ears? Also, I'm pretty sure Oliver has been Charlie's only playmate, while Oliver has had lots of playmates.

So, open to feedback from any readers on how to handle this should it ever happen again.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Honestly, I have never really dealt with that before first hand with Titan, so someone might have better advice for next time, but I'll try to giv emy opinion..

There are 2 puppies that play like this at the dog park and they just get seperated for a moment and let to go back at it again, because we all know they are just playing. 

Personally, if it were Titan, and it happened frequently, I would teach "no bite" and whenever he does that, just say "no bite." If that doesn't work, as I suspect you may have tried something similar, I would just seperate the dogs and monitor, everytime he latches on to the ear, grab say sternly, "Enough!" (my "stop everything you could possibly be doing, word," lol) and see if after a few times it works.

Now that's all assuming it is completely just play and not aggressive at all. If it is aggressive, or turns into aggression I would take him out of the situation and contemplate if he isn't actually as good with dogs as I think. (don't think that's the case here.)

In the end, I wouldn't worry yourself too much with it. You have a good rep with the daycare, I'm sure they would tell you otherwise, and you have only experienced this with one dog where I really think he was just playing hard. Probably was thinking "oooh floppy thing, tug time!!" It's training a behavior just like anything else. 

As for your neighbor, if anyone ever hit my dog, ever, ESPECIALLY my puppy, unless my he was viciously attacking them or their dog I would give them a piece of my mind. If you ever decide to meet with him again I would certainly tell him to keep his hands off your d,og.


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

I think that waiting to correct a dog until things have escalated to a 'vicious attack' is irresponsible. If Oliver tries this to the wrong dog, then you can have a fight on your hands. Allowing Oliver to practice this behavior, even though it is play, reinforces it.. meaning he is going to do it more, and more, and more.. Right now he is a puppy and it is 'cute', but unless he learns some control, I would not put him in situations that he could do this.. In all honesty, doggy daycare workers aren't the most proactive, many let other dogs bully and pick on eachother, don't do anything until it is too late. So he could have learned this from a dog there or is doing it to other dogs and you just don't know.

If your dog didn't yelp, then he probably didn't even notice the guy hitting him. you can pick him up by the scruff and tell him drop it all you want, but if he doesn't, then you need to get a bit more strict.


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

I would keep your puppy in a controlled environment, like puppy classes and under the watchful eye of a trainer, ask their opinion. I would not have anymore play dates with your lovely neighbor, who hits your dog!!!!!!!!!!


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

Honestly, your dog probably didn't let go because you were trying to pull him apart. At that point it became a game of tug. Doesn't mean it was ever 'right' of him to bite at the other dog's ear, however, chances are he would have let go on his own without intervention (since both dogs believed it all to be play).


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

hes too rough for the other much smaller dog that can't do anything about it when your dog gets carried away, he needs bigger playmates maybe larger breed pups. This is a case of the other owner feeling like he had to defend his pup so a lot of owners here feel they can do anything they like to defend their big powerful gsds that are well able to protect themselves??. I dont feel the owner of the other dog was wrong in this. The size diff between 2 breeds is big and one had a hold of the others ear. Better to avoid the dog and owner from now on.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Oliver found Charlie's weak spot. Oliver will exploit it. There isn't any viciousness from Oliver. 

Charlie is a terrier. He is going to play a bit rough - Oliver has found a way to match the roughness. He is going to use it. They are dogs. 

You need to work on your "Enough!" "Stop" "Here!" "Leave it!" what ever word you use to stop your dog's current action. That word means all bets are off, stop what you are doing. No grey area. If you have a word, you need to work on it so your dog is 100%. 

Holding the ear, can start a fight. If the terrier decides it's had enough and the whine / warning doesn't work, it could go into defense mode very quickly. It's up to you to tell your dog when enough is enough. You should never need to physically jump in to seperate the dogs. I agree with the above post - that will just escalate the game or the fight. 

Although having your dog zonked in the head seemed a bit rough, it might have stopped a dog fight. 

I have a Lacy who has a very high pain tolerance. I have a GSD who outweighs my Lacy by at least 55lbs. They play very rough. My Lacy is an ear grabber. I don't allow this ear grabbing stuff. I say, "Boys! Enough!" and they both stop and come to me. I won't correct them for playing. So I don't correct the Lacy. But if they didn't stop the game, then they'd both get corrected.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I guess you can teach an out with a tug and use that and correct if the dog doesn't out on command.

Generally you aught to entertain and train your pup and use ball play or tug rather than let your pup play fight with other pups.

A way to get a pup to release in an emergency is twist his ear and he'll release and yelp. Also, I find if you pinch the skin on the chest of a dog between the front 2 legs, they will yelp and release straight away. They are 2 weak spots on a dog.


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## Oliver'smom (Aug 15, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the replies. We haven't run into the neighbor or Charlie since the last ear incident and with it being so dark in the mornings now I think it is a good time to call an permanent end to the morning playdates. Both for the sake of Charlie's ears and so I don't have to listen to the political rants.

We have run into several other dogs on our walks (both on and off leash) since my original ear post and Oliver hasn't latched on anyone else's ears, but has greeted and played appropriately. He has had all good reports from dog daycare too. I tend to agree that he figured out the ears were Charlie's weak spot and exploited them. We will work on our "stop whatever you are doing immediately" command and it is nice to know in a pinch that about the ear twisting and pinch moves.


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