# Bad living situation with aggressive family dogs



## Kitt3n (Jul 18, 2017)

I had to move back in with my family a few months after I got Rose, my first German Shepherd. She's 9 months old now.The big problem is that my mom has three small dogs and two of them are aggressive towards Rose. I have to keep Rose in my small bedroom. I used to let her in the hallway but she jumps the babygate occasionally and it's too dangerous now unless I'm there watching. Rose was doing good when I first moved in. My mom's small dogs always snapped, growled and barked at her though... a few months after the small dog triggered a dog fight and Rose started attacking him. She also went after the other small dog because the dog always growls at Rose. I've been avoiding the living room (we live in a trailer so it's already small) but everytime I take Rose out, the one small dog barks like crazy at her. I'm sure it must be stressful for Rose and she hasn't tried reacting to him. But tonight I came back inside and went to go straight to my room but the small dog started going after Rose. I was pulling her leash back but he kept coming after her so she started attacking him. She could seriously injure him or even kill him and I don't know what to do anymore. I thought I could avoid it but now the small dog is going after her... 

I'm so worried now because my mom would make me get rid of Rose and I don't want them fighting. She is kept in my room now and I feel bad. I take her on atleast two walks a day. I used to let her run around the yard but she went after a stranger walking by so I stopped. I've been playing fetch/tug with her on a long lead but she still ends up cooped in my room or I hook her outside so she has more space. 

I'm trying to also socialize her but can't get her into classes and now with all these dogs trying to attack her (on a couple of walks these unleashed dogs went after her too) I'm afraid she'll never be good with dogs now. 

I'm stuck living here and have no idea how to get my mom's dog to stop trying to attack Rose and making her attack back. He's an old small dog and I know my mom/family won't help me. She just wants me to sell Rose and I'm worried she'll force me if another dog fight happens... I feel pretty hopeless right now. 

I just want my dog to be happy but I feel like I can't give her enough space and all these dogs barking at her isn't helping her. She has fear aggression and I think she's probably stressed out always having them bark and try going after her now. Even when I try training her in the hallway the small dog will start barking at her. This is a daily thing and now I'm becoming extremely stressed too. 

I just had to get that out. I don't know how I'm going to deal with this. I feel stuck...


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Could you possibly crate train the two smaller dogs? . Then once they are crate trained, you could crate them just to take Rose out of your room and out side. Once outside, your mom can let them out of the crate. And when you're ready to come back in, you or your mom can crate the two again just to get Rose back in your room safely.

I think maybe if you use positive crate training methods and the two dogs learn to like the crate plus the understanding that it is only for the few moments to get Rose outside and inside, your mom may be receptive to that plan.

It does sound like a very stressful situation that everyone is in. I'm sure others will offer more advice and I hope you find solutions that will make both you and your mom happy.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Sorry to hear about this Kitt3n, it's not an easy problem to resolve. Is your Mom willing to help by correcting her dogs when they bother yours? If you two haven't talked about this, now's the time! Because there's very little chance of resolving it without the two of you working together.

Sometimes you can just let the dogs work these issues out themselves. But in this case you have introduced a new BIG dog into the littler dog's territory, so it may be protecting it's territory, or it may just not like other dogs, or it may be acting this way out of fear. In any case, since these dogs have already fought, there's little chance that they'll work it out on their own without one of them getting hurt, so it will take some effort.

You didn't say how long you and Rose have been there, or if Rose generally gets along with other dogs. If it hasn't been long, like less than two weeks or so, and if Rose usually gets along with other dogs, you may have a chance. I suggest keeping them apart for at least a couple weeks. Don't stop letting Rose out in the yard, but keep her on a leash and stay with her when you do. After you've done that for two or three weeks, to give the dogs time to get used to the other's presence (and also to give them time to forget their previous fight), try reintroducing them in a neutral location - ideally off leash, as lots of dogs react badly with other dogs when they're on a leash. A ball field, or even a neighbors yard would work. But it needs to be somewhere with enough space for the dogs to be able to get away from one another if they want or need to. It would help too if your Mom could be there to keep her dogs calm. Make sure you're close enough to intervene if it looks like one of the dogs is going to hurt the other. And don't worry if the little dogs don't make friends with Rose. It's actually a HUGE step in the right direction if they can just be in the same area with each other without fighting! If they can, then just be patient. Sometimes it just takes dogs longer than you might expect to accept a newcomer.

If they can't, and it looks like your situation isn't going to change soon (meaning getting your own place), it may be the best for all of you if you find Rose a new home.


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## Kitt3n (Jul 18, 2017)

tim_s_adams said:


> Sorry to hear about this Kitt3n, it's not an easy problem to resolve. Is your Mom willing to help by correcting her dogs when they bother yours? If you two haven't talked about this, now's the time! Because there's very little chance of resolving it without the two of you working together.
> 
> Sometimes you can just let the dogs work these issues out themselves. But in this case you have introduced a new BIG dog into the littler dog's territory, so it may be protecting it's territory, or it may just not like other dogs, or it may be acting this way out of fear. In any case, since these dogs have already fought, there's little chance that they'll work it out on their own without one of them getting hurt, so it will take some effort.
> 
> ...


I've been here for 5 months now and they've been in a few fights... No my mom and I don't have a close relationship and she wouldn't help at all. She just thinks her dog is old and we also have cats/baby kittens running around and Rose goes after them. I'm afraid she'd kill or hurt a kitten. 

There isn't any other location I can introduce them other then the yard... and it couldn't be off leash because I can't trust Rose to not try attacking people. My mom's dog is old and doesn't go on walks or anywhere except the yard. I don't have a car or my license to go anywhere else either...


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## Kitt3n (Jul 18, 2017)

Heartandsoul said:


> Could you possibly crate train the two smaller dogs? . Then once they are crate trained, you could crate them just to take Rose out of your room and out side. Once outside, your mom can let them out of the crate. And when you're ready to come back in, you or your mom can crate the two again just to get Rose back in your room safely.
> 
> I think maybe if you use positive crate training methods and the two dogs learn to like the crate plus the understanding that it is only for the few moments to get Rose outside and inside, your mom may be receptive to that plan.
> 
> It does sound like a very stressful situation that everyone is in. I'm sure others will offer more advice and I hope you find solutions that will make both you and your mom happy.


I really can't. My mom wouldn't want them crated. She's never crated a dog in her life. She definitely wouldn't want to deal with repeatedly crating them either and she's not always home to do that...


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I am so sorry Kitt3n. A 9 month old GSD is like a teenager. It can be a tricky time for behavior. You have to be firm with her if she gets out of line, correct the nonsense and reward the good behavior. It isn't easy when you dog is living in tight conditions with little snarly dogs. I wish your mom could come to see Rose as much her dog as yours, then she might be more active in trying to teach all the dogs manners. I honestly don't have an great ideas for your situation. Let us know how it turns out.

In the meantime, keep walking and playing with Rose. She will learn her manners if you stay consistent and calm (yes, easier said than done). If she has to stay on leash all the time for awhile, then do so. That means you will be nearby to always correct whoever is out of line. I am not talking being an alpha dog but being She Who Must Be Obeyed. That means stopping the nonsense of the little dogs, too. And lots and lots of rewarding calmness with all the dogs. It would be great if you could find someone who knew about GSDs and such and could come into the home and talk to everyone and help work it out.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. It is an unfortunate situation you and Rose are in. Life happens and many times it doesn't go ideally. Rose is a young dog. Unless your living situation is going to change very soon it may be in the best interest of all concerned, especially Rose to rehome. I know this isn't what you want to hear. 
It doesn't sound like Rose has much of a chance to have a full, happy life living in this situation. Constantly being growled at, charged and bitten by the small dogs will only ingrain dog aggression. Not being able to work on socializing with the cats has the same outcome. 
You don't have the cooperation and support of your parents. It is their home and their dogs are their priority to them. This is not the making of a good outcome for Rose's social development. 

No blame or judgement...life circumstances have changed for you. You didn't plan this when you got Rose. You don't have the resources you need or access to them to get Rose what she needs to work through these issues. You love Rose and want the best for her. Rehoming may be best. 

Did Rose come from a reputable breeder? If she did, you can call her breeder and ask if they will take her back. Good breeders usually will take their pups back or at the very least help you find a good home if you decide to rehome.


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## LuvmySlyguy (Aug 28, 2017)

Maybe ty getting Rose a muzzle and putting it on her when taking her past the little dogs. It's not really the best way to train but it would keep her from injuring your moms dogs. Try getting a spray bottle full of water and when the little dog starts barking spray his face and say a firm no! Idk what you could do.
Dog fights are scary things. My sisters each had a dog, one had a mini blue heeler and the other got a puppy Rottweiler. The heeler we've had since 8 weeks and now she's 3 years old. She kept putting the rott pup in her place but when the rott reached a year, now pretty much full grown she said fought back at the corrections given by the mini and it turned into them never being allowed to see each other because they would go for the throats...the Rottweiler because aggressive to all female dogs and now has a new home. Some things you can't break unless you've done it before I guess. 
Try the water thing on each dog that starts showing attitude. The reason I suggest to muzzle yours is cause in one bite she could finish the yippy dog... 
hopefully that helps you for now.
I have my first gsd so maybe others will read this post and tell me if it's a good idea or not.
All I can say is good luck I hope everything works out for you


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

It sounds to me like your mother is not going to be receptive of doing anything to help the dogs all get along no matter what you do, and it isn't fair for Rose to have to be shut in a room all the time. I agree with some of the others, unfortunately. If this home situation can't change and fast, it would be best to find Rose a new home.

If she came from a good breeder, you should be able to ask the breeder to take her back. Another thought I had though... If you know the situation will change in a few months down the road, could a friend basically foster her for you until you move out? Could you find somewhere to board her for the time-being? It wouldn't be ideal, but if you absolutely did not want to say goodbye to her, you might be able to figure something out along those lines. I am very sorry that you are going through this. It sounds awful for everyone involved.


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## LuvmySlyguy (Aug 28, 2017)

Oh and something else that came to mind. Could you possibly take her on longer walks? Jog with her? My gsd loves his walks even though they're pretty short. I am still recovering from acl surgery and so longs walks are hard for me but even our short walks does him good. Try walking more than twice if possible. Sly, my dog loves looking at himself in the tv or mirror. The first few times he growled and barked thinking it was another dog. Your dog is alone in a small bedroom so maybe put some mirrors down so she can see herself which would help with her being lonely and maybe even the dog aggression because it look like there's dogs in her space. Give her lots of toys to chew but nothing like stuffed animals...idk I'm trying to think of ways to help you be able to keep her but her be happy. These dogs are full of energy lol


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## Kitt3n (Jul 18, 2017)

I do take her on kind of long walks, probably about 30-40 minutes each and was taking her. swimming but it's colder now. I started jogging with her a little but don't want to hurt her. It's been very hard for me because she also lunges at cars and people so I've been trying to avoid both recently because it's become overwhelming for me. I did watch videos on slowly adjusting her at a distance from cars and giving her treats when she sees them without reacting. I know she can be trained but with everything that's happened, leaving an abusive relationship and now dealing with this I've been falling into depression again so it feels extremely stressful and hard for me lately.

I tried using my bicycle a few times until a lady walked by and Rose knocked me on the ground lunging at her... I've been watching Cesar Milan and training videos. I know it must be my social anxiety/nervousness making Rose extra protective of me... 

I have thought about getting her a flirt pole to help with exercise but mentally I worry that with me she'll always be aggressive with people and now other dogs. I must give off my bad energy on walks making her go after people. She tried biting my boyfriends friend. I just want her to be happy and to get better but I don't know how when I'm not feeling stable myself. 

I don't remember her breeder and I don't have any friends unfortunately to help... I see that she's been improving in some ways but not with her aggression and that's what really worries me now. Cesar Milan says it's the owners and to be calm and assertive but I'm far from either. I'm a nervous wreck around strangers and I know she must feel that too so I don't know what to do. I should probably get her a muzzle if I do keep her but I feel so bad. I wonder if she was with a more healthy minded confident person then she'd be able to be okay with strangers and just be relieved. I worry that I just cause her more stress and I know she's going through a phase where she needs that good role model and leadership. I have scars all over my arms because as a puppy I let her bite me and now she'll cause bruises sometimes. I know it's my fault, she just needs more attention but I've tried giving her more. I'm just not doing so well so it feels very hard right now...


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Kitt3n said:


> I really can't. My mom wouldn't want them crated. She's never crated a dog in her life. She definitely wouldn't want to deal with repeatedly crating them either and she's not always home to do that...





Kitt3n said:


> I've been here for 5 months now and they've been in a few fights... No my mom and I don't have a close relationship and she wouldn't help at all. *She just thinks her dog is old and we also have cats/baby kittens running around and Rose goes after them. I'm afraid she'd kill or hurt a kitten. *
> 
> There isn't any other location I can introduce them other then the yard... *and it couldn't be off leash because I can't trust Rose to not try attacking people.* My mom's dog is old and doesn't go on walks or anywhere except the yard. I don't have a car or my license to go anywhere else either...


So basically you mom doesn't have the first dang clue about dog training and isn't interested in learning at this point.

And you have little to no control over your dog either. 

I hate to say this, but you need to find someplace for Rose to go where she can be happy and get the training she so desperately needs.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Rose is constantly being stressed and threatened by other dogs. This is just not workable as it stands right now. If there is hope of getting out of this situation within a few months, there are things you can try to give her temporary relief and training. If this is going to be a long term situation for you and her, you really need to think seriously about finding her a new home and owner.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Kitt3n said:


> I do take her on kind of long walks, probably about 30-40 minutes each and was taking her. swimming but it's colder now. I started jogging with her a little but don't want to hurt her. It's been very hard for me because she also lunges at cars and people so I've been trying to avoid both recently because it's become overwhelming for me. I did watch videos on slowly adjusting her at a distance from cars and giving her treats when she sees them without reacting. I know she can be trained but with everything that's happened, leaving an abusive relationship and now dealing with this I've been falling into depression again so it feels extremely stressful and hard for me lately.
> 
> I tried using my bicycle a few times until a lady walked by and Rose knocked me on the ground lunging at her... I've been watching Cesar Milan and training videos. I know it must be my social anxiety/nervousness making Rose extra protective of me...
> 
> ...


Kitt3n Thank you for sharing your own personal difficulties. It is very brave and strong to share such personal information. It is also very helpful for us hear to help you and Rose. 
It is indeed likely that Rose is picking up on your own social anxiety. But this breed is also known for being great support dogs. The two of you need help if you move forward and try to keep her under the current situation. First and foremost are you getting any help for your issues? Part of a support group or medical professional or clergy? If not, I urge you to get emotional support for yourself. 

Don't be too hard on yourself. Raising a GSD can being very trying at times. Seems like you are trying hard to get it right. I'm not a Caesar fan myself. But it shows you are trying to do your best. 

Traffic...I found that my girl overcame lunging on the leash at moving cars by walking in the same direction of the traffic when safe to do so. (sidewalks). It seemed to help that the cars weren't coming at her. As she got older she just stopped doing it. 

Worry of human aggression...Hopefully others here will chime in but just know that at 9 months Rose doesn't need to meet everyone. See someone coming...cross the street, walk off to the side, change directions and walk away are just a few methods. A proper muzzle will keep her from biting anyone and in that will ease your own worry making walks calmer and more productive for you both. 

Rose is trying to deal with small aggressive animals (prey) in the home. Flirt poles are great but they do build prey drive. I wouldn't recommend using a flirt pole at this time. If you have a school or athletic field that is fenced in near by you might be able to use those spaces after hours to let Rose have some safe free off leash play time with you. Makes for great training space as well to work on recall and general obedience training. 

You'll need to teach Rose a strong "leave it" going forward as well. 
There is a guy on youtube (tab289) that teaches positive training techniques for the basics that I liked. However, Rose is at an age and in a situation that is going to need more than just positive training. Positive training always has a place in the overall picture but more is likely to be needed given the situation. 

Pulling, lunging and need for corrections. Prong collar if you don't already have one. 

If you give us your general location it would help to find you resources for training help in you area.


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## LuvmySlyguy (Aug 28, 2017)

Is it possible to send her to a trainer? They could train her and she wouldn't be at your moms house for a while which might help.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Yeah ... I kinda figured working on your moms badly behaved dogs... would be kinda sorta useless, if she cared, that much about how her dogs behaved , she'd have done something long ago! You're pretty much between a rock and a hard place. It just maybe time to stop thinking about what you want and what is best for your dog??? 

I don't know, but perhaps you can contact a local GSD rescue ... plead your case but tell them ... you do want to keep your dog but right now ... you can't do it?? Maybe possibly, they would be able to find a foster that would say "sure" no problem ... I'll keep your dog for you until you can take them??? That's not the norm ... but people do stuff ... "I would do that." So maybe others would also ... just a thought.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Aww well as you can see this is pretty much an untenable situation ... still, I'd be remiss if I left the OP with no hope?? I kinda sorta specialize in also training other peoples ill behaved dogs to leave me the ...heck alone! Hands off and tool free pretty transparent.

If your moms ill trained dogs won't dogs won't get out of your dogs face ... then you can use this to convince them to do so. :

Pet Convincer.com

It's simply a bicycle air pump and you my already have one??? It's not an ideal solution but right now you got nothing! Those dogs are gonna get themselves killed! And your dog is gonna be the guy "maybe the use of the PC" will get them to stay out out of her face??? The other stuff you can work on if you can keep "moms" dogs the heck away from your dog! Not ideal granted but better than what you are doing now ...most likely??


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> I kinda sorta specialize in also training other peoples ill behaved dogs to leave me the ...heck alone! Hands off and tool free pretty transparent


 id be interested in an expansion on this thought. I'm wondering how you train other people's(strangers not your friends) dogs to leave you be. And don't say with the pet saver because you said with no tools. I can't help but laugh at the thought of the op chasing the dogs around blowing some compressed air at them


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## montse (Jun 21, 2017)

Kitt3n, first of all, I'm really sorry about what you're going through. I hope that things will get better. I'm afraid I don't have much to add to what other people have said.

What I wanted to say is that using a muzzle on your dog is not necessarily a bad thing. Make sure you get a basket muzzle (not a cloth one) and introduce it slowly to the dog. Give lots of praise and reward your dog and soon the muzzle will be a positive thing. You mentioned you were watching Cesar Millan, I'm sure there's an episode (or more) somewhere where he introduces a dog to the muzzle.

Where I live it's pretty usual to see security guards with dogs wearing muzzles in trains and train/subway stations. The dogs are completely fine with it. So you have to see the muzzle as a tool to help you. If she wears it, it's one less thing you have to worry about, and it'll be a step towards being able to deal with the other issues.

And don't forget to take care of yourself. I think yoga may help you, considering what you're going through. If you can't enroll in any classes, you can check "Yoga with Adrienne" on YouTube. I think she's got some 30-day programmes or something similar. Yoga has helped me both physically and mentally.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> id be interested in an expansion on this thought. I'm wondering how you train other people's(strangers not your friends) dogs to leave you be. And don't say with the pet saver because you said with no tools.


 I don't train my friend's dogs, waste of time. If people don't ask for my help I don't offer! I did once with a couple badly behaved herder dogs, (yeah same friends) I spent two weeks working with the dogs. 

My friends did not ask, we were dog sitting so you know what the heck?? I did great with the dogs, our friends got back and within twenty minutes of being home ... they immediately started to dismantle all I'd done??? If people don't ask for my help ... I don't offer any. 

But yep one that I taught to keep out of my face was there new herder dog, seven bites on people at that time. I don't know what his record is today ... I no longer go up there. Most likely he's still biting others but he did not screw with me and I never laid a hand on him. And vacuum cleaner dog an annoying mini pin a Vacuum Cleaner Harasser?? Now that one I might have actually trained?? I suppose I could drop by and see but I don't care that much. 

But demeanor, timing and surprise stopped them all cold and I never said a word to any of them. I don't need a PC all I need is the sound. I have heard it doesn't work (Ptssss.) But I guess I don't know any better?? 

But ... I am working with my clients (I'm a PCA) Chi-Pom?? Sweet dog but she's a barker ... right now my client throws a shoe at her at night. I've started to work with her, the dog in a rather less aggressive fashion with the same technique. I'll give it a couple more days and then see if the "Ptsss" thing is a transferable skill??? 



thegooseman90 said:


> I can't help but laugh at the thought of the op chasing the dogs around blowing some compressed air at them


Fortunately for the OP, I find little humour in dealing with other people's "ill behaved pets." I seriously doubt that she will have to chase those dogs down?? In my ample experience the badly behaved little dogs ... have no problem getting in another's dog face??? 

And right now they have gotten away with it free of "consequences!" That needs to change, the op needs to claim whatever space she has available for her and her dog and keep them the miscreants away! Most likely they'll still bark bark bark but at some distance. And if her dog learns not to respond to them at all. They should get bored and quit acting like tools! 

It's pretty much an untenable situation, no one would chose to have to "learn" to train a dog under such conditions?? Still 
it is what it is and if she is going to keep the dog with her ... then she will have to start making better choices for him in regards to people and give him a break from the "Bad Dog Squad" when at home.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Chip, maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you saying they can just look at you and tell that you aren't to be messed with? Here lately I seem to be a magnet for people's loose annoying dogs. They circle and yip like crazy. I've only had to physically stop one(possible) attack. But I'd like to be like you to where these strange dogs can just look at me and know to leave me alone.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> Chip, maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you saying they can just look at you and tell that you aren't to be messed with? Here lately I seem to be a magnet for people's loose annoying dogs. They circle and yip like crazy. I've only had to physically stop one(possible) attack. But I'd like to be like you to where these strange dogs can just look at me and know to leave me alone.


Naw, that's not how it works. 



Situational awareness with herder dog, owners (my friends ... ) are dog owning fools and the dog (has now under their care become a tool!) He chases the wild horses, doesn't like men and the owners are too stupid to put him away! When they have company over! 

I heard him coming wooden floors and twirled to intercept. Ptsst, sfinger snap and a foot slam in his direction! He hit the brakes hard and disappeared down the hallway! He was not expecting that worked out fine. But ... those are close quarters situations indoors type thing.

Are you having issues with walks????


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I don't train my friend's dogs, waste of time. If people don't ask for my help I don't offer! I did once with a couple badly behaved herder dogs, (yeah same friends) I spent two weeks working with the dogs.
> 
> My friends did not ask, we were dog sitting so you know what the heck?? I did great with the dogs, our friends got back and within twenty minutes of being home ... they immediately started to dismantle all I'd done??? If people don't ask for my help ... I don't offer any.
> 
> ...


Can you explain how you are working with the chi-pom in a less aggressive fashion in the same technique of shoe throwing? Or did I read that wrong?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

*** Removed by ADMIN *** 


5 months giving you and your dog house room, IS helping you. It sounds like your mother really isn't in much of a position to do a lot more than that. And if you were living in my house with a dog that is a danger to my smaller ones, I would probably tell you that you need to find the dog a new home, or find a job and move out. Maybe you can rent a trailer with your dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> Can you explain how you are working with the chi-pom in a less aggressive fashion in the same technique of shoe throwing? Or did I read that wrong?


Less aggressive would be anything softer than a shoe. :

But technically she used a bedroom slipper. Last night she used a roll of toilet paper. At that point I asked if she issued a "Command first??" And then said ... Oh a "Bonker!" you could try a bundle of socks! 

I already (been two weeks) of haphazard effort, don't need anything. Aside from "Queenie" NO! The owner reports ... see she listens to you! >

But ...not good enough, I don't live with dog she does. So ... I'll continue my part time effort "tool free" and try and transfer, what I do to her. It's a nice dog but yeah kinda "barky."


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

@selzer that really isn't helpful.Please don't post unless you have something constructive to offer.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

If I remember correctly this gal left an even worse situation and doesn't have transportation. I'm sure she would like to have a dependable car, a good job and her own place. These things will come in time, but in the meantime she has this dog thing to deal with.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Kitt3n, Were you able to get a muzzle? I was thinking about your situation and although I am not a fan of muzzles but muzzles are not terrible and you can train a dog to willingly accept it and it becomes no bid deal. I think that you need to protect Rose from ever having a recorded bite history or a history where she has killed an animal. If you come to that difficult decision to rehome her, her record needs to be clean in order to give her the best chance for a successful adoption. I am offing this as proactive thinking just in case.

Also, even though you are down, try very hard to keep walking Rose. See if you can find a quiet parking lot or place with minimum traffic, people and dogs. The excersize isn't just for Rose but also for you. The brain releases chemicles that make a person feel better when the body excersizes. 

If Rose likes to do simple command excersizes like sit, give me your paw, follow me,etc. do those things. Set yourself and Rose up to do things that you both are good at when doing it together. This will also help to put you in a better mood.

The biggest issue I see is the hallway from your door to the door leading outside. Think creatively, what can you do to clear that hallway from the other dogs? Can you give them some kind of treat to keep them busy while you head out? Can you gate off that part of the hallway so the little dogs can't get her?

As for Rose staying in your bedroom. That by itself really isn't a big issue. Many people crate their dogs for long periods of time and the dogs are fine.

How about teaching the little dogs a "quiet" command? It may take some time but even older dogs love attention and older dogs can be taught new tricks. I have first hand with that statement. or the "place" command where you teach them to stay in their favorite spot if it is away from the door or choose anther spot.

The gated hallway may not be doable for you as I don't know the layout of your livining area but training the other dogs should be doable. I can't see how your mom would object to you giving her dogs some loving attention and fun activity which is what training,should be.

It's really really hard to see anything as a solution when feeling down but try to force yourself to take that first step. That's the hardest part. In my own experience, once it is taken, things start moving easier.

If none of my suggestions are doable, then use them as examples of thinking creatively and think of what might be doable that will ease some,of the problems.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> Chip, maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you saying they can just look at you and tell that you aren't to be messed with? Here lately I seem to be a magnet for people's loose annoying dogs. They circle and yip like crazy. I've only had to physically stop one(possible) attack. But I'd like to be like you to where these strange dogs can just look at me and know to leave me alone.


Oh well since the OP seems to be AWOL at the moment ... let's tackle your issue, since the "unknown" loose dog, I think could be one of her issues also??

Dogs confined to you being in there space and dogs out and about ... are two different situations. I'm gonna guess your problem is not about you ... it's about your dog. Maybe it's a GSD thing I don't know?? Rocky was a well behaved dog on walks he had "Zero Reaction" to other dogs. And I did my best to "avoid" other dogs but it did not matter because, they would come from out of nowhere ... to "try" and get to him??? 

This struck me as odd because with my other dogs ... in ten years of urban dog walking ... with my actually (former) American Band Dawg, my assorted Boxer/APBT mixes and my Boxer ... I totaled maybe three encounters in 10 years?? But when I was down to walking Rocky alone ... the loose dog encounters soared ... thirteen or so in five years ... WTH??? He was a loose dog magnet for some reason ... and those dogs, freaking ticked me off!! 

One's demeanor, plays a role in your response but the loose dogs don't care! They don't see you all they see is your dog! And Rocky who was usually off leash knew who Job in such encounters was to do nothing in such situations. In the beginning I'll tell him "Stay" I got this!! After awhile I no longer bothered with the "Stay" ... he was more like oh ... "this old bit ... again???" 

And once your dog "disappears" as it were and then the dogs now "see you!" That puts a different spin on the situation!! The calm under pressure thing ... is nothing I specifically taught?? It was a by product of my work on his H/A issues?? With people when I stopped and talked his job was for awhile to be to my rear and do "nothing!" Good enough for people ... that must apply to charging dogs also as "Dad" is in front. 

It's behaviour I expect I don't expect to deal with a charging stray and 116 lbs of ticked off GSD at the same time?? Tool free, and Rocky never took a hit! And I never had need to lay into another dog ... worked out fine ... until it didn't! 

I had to work to hard to screw up everything, I knew to keep my dog safe in the Urban Jungle of my local neighborhood. But you know ... I managed to do it! Hard lessons learned and Rocky paid a price for my arrogance?? First lesson learned .. huh humans can't see well in the dark ...but apparently dogs can ... who knew??? 

And the second lesson was advise, I first posted here a few years ago in this clip but "I" never followed, carry a Walking Stick to block charging dogs!! 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7099457-post54.html

It was sound advice ... but you know ... I'm a "tool free" kinda guy and a Walking Stick ... would be a "tool??" Aww well when I messed up and Rocky paid the price ... I finally said ... well you know ... "What would Chip Do??" 

That much said thus far ... before the "Walking Stick" and uh the Flashlight at night on moonless nights.:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/687457-argggg-dog-attack.html

And ... as it happens a month or so later our first now "Walking Stick Encounter." :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...513-argggg-dog-attack-yet-again-but-time.html

As I am want to say ... "Show Me!" And yeah I did ... and the look on that dog's face was "Priceless!!" Kinda like ... How you like me now!! :









And a couple of notes first ... as "MAWL" pointed out to me "most attacks occur close to home??" I never noticed but whatever the total was 17 or 18? All occurred within three blocks or less of our home??? 

And yeah the little dogs will circle and yep it kinda sorta ticks one off but the goal, is "teeth of my dog!" As long as they don't close the gap ... just keep moving forward but yeah keep an eye on them! And for the record ... Lhasa Apsos are freaking fast, determined and hard core stupid!! And they can apparently change tactics?? The one had tried three times to get to Rocky!! He caught me completely but surprise on attempt number two of three!! I managed to twirl Rocky out of reach because he was in a full body harness!! 

I guess after his first fail he decided not to bark first?? That was a my bad ... I knew the dog could be there and should have been more heads up! The third attempt the freaking beast charged across the street!! But I saw him first and blocked his access to Rocky the owners scoped him up! 

I have no seen anymore most likely he either got hit by car, the owners moved or he ran across the run dog and owner??? 

Oh and the demeanor thing and other people people dogs indoors, well ... Larry Krohn beats me for more butt puckering ... but I win on least words said!  






Oh and the "do nothing dog" thing, when faced with loose dogs?? Well I did it my way but I have no idea how much of that was me and how much was Rocky?? I've seen that behaviour before with a E-Collar trained dog that I did not train but made a correct assumption on what the dog would do when I had to protect him ie ... "nothing" aside from "Stay!" But a few weeks or so ago Baillif, explained how he "trains" that behaviour. I thought I saved it but ... apparently not ... I'll try and find it. 

Ok now I'm done.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> thegooseman90 said:
> 
> 
> > Chip, maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you saying they can just look at you and tell that you aren't to be messed with? Here lately I seem to be a magnet for people's loose annoying dogs. They circle and yip like crazy. I've only had to physically stop one(possible) attack. But I'd like to be like you to where these strange dogs can just look at me and know to leave me alone.
> ...


I want to go ahead and admit right of the bat that I did not read your entire post here. Maybe later I'll take the time. But yes my issue is with other dogs of leash while we're out and about. Originally my pup would run the range from scared, excited and wanting to play, or pretty aggressive. Now after some socializing and working on him he pretty well ignores the other dogs. But it annoys me. I thought what you were saying is that when you're out and about that these stray or loose dogs just instinctively know to avoid you or something. As of now I've only had one dog actually charge us and to be fair I don't know what her intentions were but I wasn't waiting to find out. so she caught the boot and I ended up having to grab her by the scruff once she got too close. The owner saw it and was able to get her to come back and he apologized profusely for letting that happen. Other than that it's the run of the mill small dog with a complex. They stay out of range but yap and yap and yap some more. 

As a side note, Conor wasn't so smug Saturday haha


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> I want to go ahead and admit right of the bat that I did not read your entire post here. Maybe later I'll take the time. But yes my issue is with other dogs of leash while we're out and about. Originally my pup would run the range from scared, excited and wanting to play, or pretty aggressive. Now after some socializing and working on him he pretty well ignores the other dogs. But it annoys me. I thought what you were saying is that when you're out and about that these stray or loose dogs just instinctively know to avoid you or something. As of now I've only had one dog actually charge us and to be fair I don't know what her intentions were but I wasn't waiting to find out. so she caught the boot and I ended up having to grab her by the scruff once she got too close. The owner saw it and was able to get her to come back and he apologized profusely for letting that happen. Other than that it's the run of the mill small dog with a complex. They stay out of range but yap and yap and yap some more.
> 
> As a side note, Conor wasn't so smug Saturday haha


LOL it doesn't matter if you did not read the whole post ... it was merely the tip of the iceberg. I understand my appeal and know my audience. Sorry if I could not tell you what you wanted to hear ... not my thing. 

But I'd just as soon ... not lay hands on other folk's dogs. More words, apologizes, LE involvement, Lawyers, Vet Visits trips to the ER, etc, etc. I don't have the time or patience as long as my dogs don't get harmed ... I don't care. "Train your dog" is the most dog owning tools will hear from me.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> But I'd just as soon ... not lay hands on other folk's dogs. More words, apologizes, LE involvement, Lawyers, Vet Visits trips to the ER, etc, etc.


 I dont want to seem insensitive here but if the dog is charging mine, who was like 16 weeks old or so, yea I'm going to intervene before I end up on the wrong side of those vet visits and such. I mean if your presence is such that a random dog respects your "hands off road block" style then so be it. But unless you have some insider secret to give us all that same presence then there's going to come a time and place for most of us to intervene. In hindsight a solid kick to the rib area didn't do much, wonder if the pet convincer would've worked better on her.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> I dont want to seem insensitive here but if the dog is charging mine, who was like 16 weeks old or so, yea I'm going to intervene before I end up on the wrong side of those vet visits and such. I mean if your presence is such that a random dog respects your "hands off road block" style then so be it. But unless you have some insider secret to give us all that same presence then there's going to come a time and place for most of us to intervene. In hindsight a solid kick to the rib area didn't do much, wonder if the pet convincer would've worked better on her.


Inside a dogs home and out on the street are two different things as I see them?? 

And to me "intervention" means "my dog does not get harmed." Rest assured ... no dog I did not know ever touched my Boxer Strudell! And my boys could defend themselves ... but not their job, protecting them from loose dogs is my job and I'm "extremely good" at my job.

My first encounter was with my 12 week old puppy Stewie (Boxer/Mix) on a walk. Hmm 15 years ago??? And we were uh about three doors from home ... for the record. As we walked past a particular home ... I heard a door slam open and people screaming??? I turned and saw 80 pounds worth of ticked off "Breed that shall not be mentioned" bearing down on Stewie!! 

Stewie was to the inside ... I spun him around with the leash , behind me and faced that dog down! I don't care what the dog was he was not getting to my puppy without getting past me! The dog never noticed me, until I removed Stewie and at that point he paused ... that gave the owners time to scoop him up ... problem solved ... no dogs touched. 

Had there been no owner to scoop him up then yeah, it would have been a "Larry Khon" style hands on beat down ... if the dog was that determined! Larry ... should have followed my advise to carry a walking stick to block a dog and most likely he would not have to do a hands on beat down in that Chow Mix encounter ... that's in one of my linked threats. 

My goal is to stop a dog from getting to mine and if I can accomplish that goal effectively with a minimum of effort and no harm to the charging dog ... good enough! And as I outlined in "this time it was different." I was the last, in unfolding dog encounter number 17 or 18 can't remember but even so with milli seconds to spare ... I was the first one to stop that dog cold! Even I was stunned??? You have to fumble around for mace or a PC ... the Walking Stick ... was already at hand! 

What I did before took balls and it worked out well for me for a very long time but hard to duplicate??? But a walking stick and a determined block that dog approach ... anyone who's goal is to protect their dog can do that. And the PC as an anti charging dog measure ... it may or may not work??? But usually charging dogs come hard and fast and there head, shoulder area is gonna be a pretty small target?? In my experience ... it's not an option I would chose??? We taught other people's dogs to "Make Better Choices" no dogs ever touched in the process ... you can't do that better than that. 

Sorry no magic bullets for this one.


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