# puppy shying away



## josephluplow (Nov 24, 2009)

My little guy (emerson) is about 9 weeks old, and my girlfriends family came to visit us in my home for thanksgiving. they have a miniature beagle who seems real moody toward other dogs.

when the beagle first came in emerson went up to sniff her and the beagle immediately got mad and growled very deeply. since this emerson won't go anywhere near her and avoids her. 

is this correctable or is he more inherently passive? eventually i want to take him to the dog park once he's vaccinated and be able to get along with other dogs!

forgive my lack of knowledge on this!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

He is probably sensing the attitude of the beagle and is keeping his distance.If he does it to friendly dogs then he needs to build up to full meeting and always keep it positive.I wouldn't push it with this dog because a negative experience will be hard to get past.


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## Deux (Aug 16, 2009)

LOL...... he is a puppy! Give him a break. In a few months the beagle will running! He is shy and just a baby!!! Tell GSD it is ok and support him!


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## Deux (Aug 16, 2009)

My GSD"S hid in their kennel at that age when door bell rang. A few weeks later they needed a good a look and growl at door when the door bell rang. They are just babies in a new home and new people, they are a bit wary of everything.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

If he is afraid don't pamper him though.He'll feed off it and think it is OK to be scared.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

I do not understand this obsession that people have with having their dogs around other dogs. Can someone please explain this to me? My dog is MY friend, he plays with ME, he works for ME, why is it necessary or beneficial for him to want to play with other dogs? Somebody please explain this to me.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Ike is going through this right now with other dogs. It's a baby puppy thing. I wasn't careful a few days ago and my neighbor's big boxer (friendly) ran towards him and that put a scare in Ike. Since then I've been more cautious in managing his doggy interaction. Right now he is comfortable with looking at dogs across the street so that's where we'll stay for a week or so before moving closer. Don't baby the pup but also don't put him in situation where he is going to freak out. A little stress is okay. He will overcome it and be more confident because of it. Too much stress is not good and will set his development back.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ZahnburgI do not understand this obsession that people have with having their dogs around other dogs. Can someone please explain this to me? My dog is MY friend, he plays with ME, he works for ME, why is it necessary or beneficial for him to want to play with other dogs? Somebody please explain this to me.


For me it isn't a play thing, it is just to tolerate them.If they don't or can't tolerate them it makes it hard to do things with them,especially if they become aggressive for what ever reason.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ZahnburgI do not understand this obsession that people have with having their dogs around other dogs. Can someone please explain this to me? My dog is MY friend, he plays with ME, he works for ME, why is it necessary or beneficial for him to want to play with other dogs? Somebody please explain this to me.


Agreed. After thinking about it, my Ike will be following the "look, don't touch" policy when it comes to other dogs.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ZahnburgI do not understand this obsession that people have with having their dogs around other dogs. Can someone please explain this to me? My dog is MY friend, he plays with ME, he works for ME, why is it necessary or beneficial for him to want to play with other dogs? Somebody please explain this to me.


humans can't play with dogs the way dogs can play with each other...have you ever seen 2 dogs playing together..they are SO happy...that is why its good for them.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ZahnburgI do not understand this obsession that people have with having their dogs around other dogs. Can someone please explain this to me? My dog is MY friend, he plays with ME, he works for ME, why is it necessary or beneficial for him to want to play with other dogs? Somebody please explain this to me.


Simple, because very probably at some point in time your dog is going to have to be around other dogs and, just like many other experiences the dog will face, the owner should try to expose him to them so he can handle them!


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ZahnburgI do not understand this obsession that people have with having their dogs around other dogs. Can someone please explain this to me? My dog is MY friend, he plays with ME, he works for ME, why is it necessary or beneficial for him to want to play with other dogs? Somebody please explain this to me.


Dogs are PACK animals. They play TOTALLY different with a dog vs playing with a human.
Most dogs like being around other dogs (as long as they get along....)
I know my dog is SO happy being around another dog & running & playing & biting & wrestling.
I dont do that stuff with him...(biting& wrestling part)


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

When Baron was just old enough for his final puppy shots (14 weeks maybe), I started him in a local obedience club puppy class. First week he kind of was overwhelmed by a couple of a little older pups (Sheltie and some little terrier type) and hung back from them although he was friendly and liked to play with the others. Second week he was almost holding his own with the 2 puppies and by the third week he was chasing them (in a friendly puppy like manner) - so he learned from being exposed to other puppies that he could handle it. I am not sure that if he didn't go to the class and meet other puppies that he would have learned this.

BTW, what was really funny was how upset the Sheltie owner would get in the third and later classes when Baron would gain the upper hand with his dog - he thought it was funny as he$$ when his puppy would chase and jump on the other puppies but not so much when his puppy was at the bottom (altho the puppy didn't seem to mind!).


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: joseph j. luplowMy little guy (emerson) is about 9 weeks old, and my girlfriends family came to visit us in my home for thanksgiving. they have a miniature beagle who seems real moody toward other dogs.
> 
> when the beagle first came in emerson went up to sniff her and the beagle immediately got mad and growled very deeply. since this emerson won't go anywhere near her and avoids her.
> 
> ...


OH! I remember when my boy was 8 weeks old, my bfs sister had a female black lab 10 weeks old...Kilo WAS HORRIFIED of her...she would beat him up & he would stand there. I WAS SO NERVOUS!
But after about 2 or 3 days, he started to "fight" back. Dont worry, hes just nervous being away from his family & hes also starting a new life with you!








Give it a bit & he will be ok! 
Good luck with your baby!!!
<3


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

Sorry, but it still does not make sense to me. Why would I want a dog looking to another dog for enjoyment? Is playing with me not plenty enough enjoyment? Are they not very happy when they play with me? 
My dogs have no reason to look at another dog, if they want play or a friendly touch they look to me. Why would it be beneficial for that to not be the case? 
As for being around other dogs, that is fine. So long as my dogs are under my control and the other dog is under the control of his owner. In this case the two do not have any reason to look at one another.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ZahnburgSorry, but it still does not make sense to me. Why would I want a dog looking to another dog for enjoyment? Is playing with me not plenty enough enjoyment? Are they not very happy when they play with me?
> My dogs have no reason to look at another dog, if they want play or a friendly touch they look to me. Why would it be beneficial for that to not be the case?
> As for being around other dogs, that is fine. So long as my dogs are under my control and the other dog is under the control of his owner. In this case the two do not have any reason to look at one another.



WOW.
THEY ARE DOGS.
Do you not interact with your own species????


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## Bennett (Nov 17, 2009)

Art,

My trainer had the best explanation for why we should strive to help our dogs be more at ease in the company of other dogs:

Imagine that your were born into a world where humans were not the dominant species. From infancy you were kept by a member of an alien species and raised and trained according to their rules--and most of the time their wants and needs, rather than your own. One day you see another human approaching. You want to make contact, but you're not sure how to do it, or if it's permissible. You have a lot of anxiety, but you try to initiate contact anyway by calling out. The other human is wary of you also and doesn't respond in a friendly way. Your owner is worried about this because it's kind doesn't really understand human psychology. It pulls you away and gives you negative messages which increases your confusion and anxiety.

Okay, so this is far-fetched and --I hope-- only likely ever to occur in a sci-fi story. But we are an alien species and we often "alienate" our dogs from their own kind. They live at our pleasure and we only imperfectly understand their psychology. Please do not make yourself the only creature your dog has an opportunity to bond with. Your life is richer for having the companionship of your dog. Please don't make his life poorer by depriving him of the companionship of his own species. Dogs are thinking, feeling creatures who deserve to be treated with respect. Please reconsider, for your dog's sake.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

your puppy is 9 weeks old. let him play with puppies.
you knew the Beagle was moody with other dogs
why let him near your puppy? you protect your puppy
and don't let things scare him.


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## josephluplow (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks! I've been around dogs my whole life but it's a whole different story when it's now YOUR puppy and your raising him. i don't want anyone to confuse my concern with ignorance or lack of caution, I just like to learn as much as I can to give him the best life possible.

thanks again!


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Good luck with your new baby!!!
HAVE FUN!


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I cannot help but agree with Art. 

We did the dog park thing, and after a certain amount of time it was more nerve wracking than fun. Sure it can be great to hang out with dog people if everyone has their dog under control...but really I've found from my Dog park experiences that Dog Parks are ultimately for people and not for dogs. Watch a newcomer into a park get bombarded with posturing because every time a new dog comes in everyone has to figure out the new pack structure. I have yet to go to park where there was not some kind of fight. 

Yes dogs are pack animals. But my dogs and my family are their pack, not strange dogs we meet once in a blue moon. Canines don't throw parties and get together in the wildnerness to hang out. This kind of co-mingling is artificial and human created. And sure dogs have more fun together than with most of their humans. Most humans don't actually want to play with their dogs. They want to pet and snuggle...to really run around and play with your dog is exhausting and most people are happy to admit that they are usually ready to quit long before their dog has had enough. It depends on how you build your relationship. My dog would rather play with me and a ball any day over another dog and I much prefer it that way. 

And to the OP- I would guess it's a puppy phase. Protect your puppy without coddling him and try to control the situation. As long as all he has are good experiences, chances are that he'll grow out of his shyness.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I have always had my own idea of what socializing a puppy is and it isn't meet & greet with strange dogs (walking or dog park). I want my puppies to see other dogs and say yep that is another dog, not Oh boy, oh boy another dog wonder if he/she wants to play with me..... do ya - do ya, pant, pant pant, pull on leash, stand on hind legs, four feet on the ground pull until I die or human lets me go, trying to get away from the boring human. I try to keep my pups busy and learning so life with his pack isn't boring. 

I have dogs that are comfortable with polite meet and greet and I have others that want their space and others dog don't need to enter that space. My dogs that are good with polite dogs, will not tolerate a strand dog trying to dominate them, so I just manage to keep my dogs away from other.

Val


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Art is talking about dog neutralization which is a very important part of a dog's socialization process. 

When you take your dog to an obedience class and your trainer tell you to keep all dogs six feet apart and make sure the dog is paying attention to you instead of whining, barking, playbowing, goofing around with other dogs, what she is telling you (whether she says it explicitly or not) is you must "neutralize" your dog in order for learning and training to take place. Now carry that a little further to working dogs (doesn't have to be police dogs ... it can be a service dog, a seeing eye dog) and you will see what Art is talking about.

Jklatsky, I once heard someone compared dog parks to single bars. How you act in a single bar you would never act in real life. Dogs are pack animal. Yes, but not just with any random dog they meet. Only in dog parks does this happen. It's just not natural.


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## Bennett (Nov 17, 2009)

This is going to be a bit long, because I want to clarify my earlier answer and address some of your statements, as well. Please be patient and I think we may arrive at some common ground if you read to the end. Thanks!

I differ with the presumption that dogs have no need of social experiences with other dogs beyond the pack we've created, since wild dogs would not indiscriminately greet other wild dogs outside their own packs. Nor would I ever suggest dog parks as a way to socialize dogs. There are too many variables at a dog park and it's potentially dangerous. 

Please let me explain. <u>Domestic dogs do not live under the same conditions as wild dogs.</u> A wolf or a coyote knows itself to be a wolf or coyote because it imitates its mother and father who are of the same species. In a wolf pack, the other adult members have contact with the pups and provide instruction, as well. Packs have their own territories and lone wolves must fight or solicit membership in a new pack. By contrast, most domestic dogs are usually with their mother and littermates until about 8 weeks, at which point they are adopted into a new environment. Think how disorienting this is from the pup's perspective. Maybe there are other dogs in the new home, but maybe not. They learn from us, they learn to follow us, they learn to look to us for everything they need, and usually we are blessed enough that they learn to love us. But they are still dogs.

My dog is fearful of other dogs, but I can still see her curiousity about them. Yes, in training she must pay attention to me, not to the other dogs--otherwise, what would be the point of training? But despite her fear, she still wants to know about the other dogs she encounters. <u>What causes her anxiety is that she does not know how to judge the other dogs.</u> She had some negative experiences as a pup that left a strong imprint in her mind and we are still working with that. 

But as I said before, domestic dogs do not live under the same conditions as wild dogs. What is a wild dog's territory? What do you think your dog thinks of as his territory? Just the yard and house? The neighborhood? The usual route for walks? His favorite place to visit? Unlike wild dogs, our dogs must encounter other dogs daily because we live so near to them. So if they do not know how to respond to their own species, of course they will be anxious. Give them the opportunity to have successful encounters (I am not talking about singles bars) and they will be calmer, more confident and I would imagine, happier.

And let me clarify: with a fearful dog, my definition of a successful encounter is 1.) that my dog shows interest without aggression, 2.) that the other dog tolerates the interest and 3.) the dogs learn enough about one another (by gathering sensory evidence) to satisfy their curiosity. 

Someday, I would love to be able to walk my dog in the company of another dog. Those of you who have two or more dogs may think this is silly, but I'd like to see one dog stop to sniff, as if to say, "Hey, this is interesting..." and my dog go over to sniff, too, and answer, with a gesture unobserved by me, "Yeah, that was some.....that came through here last night." That's the ideal of canine companionship in my opinion.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ZahnburgI do not understand this obsession that people have with having their dogs around other dogs. Can someone please explain this to me? My dog is MY friend, he plays with ME, he works for ME, why is it necessary or beneficial for him to want to play with other dogs? Somebody please explain this to me.


Why? Because when I take my girl to the animal shelter to temperment test a dog that has been deemed "dog aggressive" and is on the euthanization list my girl darn well better be socialized properly to want to play with the dog, to not give off any bad vibes that might set off a flight or fight instinct, to be able to walk side by side to prove that this dog is not dangerous.

I have a 100lb boy in my house right now that my girl temperment tested with. He's going to rescue on Saturday. He would have been dead a week ago. 

That's why I'm obsessed with having my dog around other dogs. That's why it's necessary and that's why it's beneficial. Thank the breeders that don't care. Thank the owners that let their intact male run, covered in ticks and bites, so they end up in the shelters.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

@Bennett, 
I disagree on the surface. My dog NEVER needs to deal with another dog, much less encounter them daily. My dog works with ME, plays with ME another dog is NEVER in the picture. Even when another dog is nearby my dog knows that I provide everything good, and there are serious reprocussions for even looking at another dog. 

@Jax,
Your argument does not hold water. A dog is quite capable of being neutral and not instigating another dog into a fight without ever being excessivly exposed to other dogs, and is certainly capable of doing this without ever playing with other dogs.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Art, you've made a choice to raise your dog/s in a certain way that makes the most sense to you based on your lifestyle and goals. Other people have made different choices that make the most sense to them based on their lifestyle and goals. It's really just that simple. You may not agree with their way and they may not agree with yours, but that's a choice that we all get to make for ourselves. I don't think those people need to justify their choice to you or anyone else, or do you need to justify yours.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

To the OP:

I think your puppy is showing good sense in giving the beagle a wide berth. Once he gets a little older enroll him in a puppy socialization class and/or find friends who have friendly, well-behaved dogs for him to socialize with. 

My dogs are around other dogs daily. Some dogs they know, others they don't. Rafi is 100% reliable around other dogs. He loves them but I am still the center of his world. I enjoy watching him play and interact with other dogs and don't feel threatened or worried by it; he is trained to come behind me should the situation warrant it. I agree with Deb, we all make different choices as to how to raise our dogs and each choice is valid, as long as it does the dog no harm.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

Cass,

Can you answer my questions? I would really like to understand this, I am obviously missing something that is quite obvious. When I look at dogs being allowed to play together I can see only problems, I can not see any benefits. Please explain to me the benefits. If necassary you can do it via a PM.


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## Bennett (Nov 17, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: [email protected],
> I disagree on the surface. My dog NEVER needs to deal with another dog, much less encounter them daily. My dog works with ME, plays with ME another dog is NEVER in the picture. Even when another dog is nearby my dog knows that I provide everything good, and there are serious reprocussions for even looking at another dog.
> 
> @Jax,
> Your argument does not hold water. A dog is quite capable of being neutral and not instigating another dog into a fight without ever being excessivly exposed to other dogs, and is certainly capable of doing this without ever playing with other dogs.


Art,

Do you disagree with my argument just on the "surface" or have you considered its true substance and implications? Also, you say that your dog never needs to deal with another dog, much less encounter them daily. Do you live in the country, in an area where you do not pass dogs regularly on walks and they do not live near enough for encounters? Your experience is quite different from mine, then. I live in the suburbs, my dog shares a boundary line with a labrador on springs, and we pass yards with electric fences that confuse the enclosed dogs and encourage anxiety, barking and lunging. None of this is good, but I cannot move. I grew up in rural Maryland, where there were more horses and cows than people, and our shepherds were with us all the time, never encountering other dogs. Most people don't live this way, however, thus the need to socialize dogs. Whether you think it is good for their psyches or not, it is essential for peacefully coexisting in my area.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Zahnburg
> I disagree on the surface. My dog NEVER needs to deal with another dog, much less encounter them daily. My dog works with ME, plays with ME another dog is NEVER in the picture. Even when another dog is nearby my dog knows that I provide everything good, *and there are serious reprocussions for even looking at another dog.*


Well, in general I'm on your side and I really don't know any schH folks who take their dogs to dog park or allow them to mingle with dogs. But I'm going to have to get off the train on this one. You don't let your dogs to look at another dog? Are you talking about on the training field or always?

To me that's pushing it a little too far. The only way you can do this is if you have the dog in full training lockdown mode [kennel - crate in car - schH field - crate in car - kennel]. Again, it's a choice and I know plenty of serious sports people who do it. But I am just saying if the dog has to live in the real world, it has to be able to look at another dog without consequence. Punishing a dog for looking at another dog is just going to make the dog neurotics and nervous about dogs. I hope you're just exaggerating to stir the pot here because that's going too far.


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