# 1.2 year old male showing bad behavior randomly.



## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

Hello, 


This post will be kind of detailed, so thanks in advance for reading. I have two Shepherds, one male who is 1.2 years old, and a female who is 1 year old. Neither of them are neutered and both have been through obedience training. The male comes from a line of military/working dogs and has a very high energy, high prey drive. He is extremely powerful and very strong willed. The female is the exact opposite, she is sweet, loves people and submissive. I have been having issues with the male as of lately and I am concerned because the bad behavior has all of a sudden started. 


Background: I have never owned a German Shepherd before and I got the male when he was 6 weeks old from a local breeder who provided me with little knowledge about owning a German Shepherd. I was determined to get one so I did not do a lot of advanced research. Anyways, I got the puppy and things were relatively easy and normal for the first 6 months. Granted I believe that I caused problems because I was told to spank a dog, alpha roll them, and other various negative methods when they misbehave. I did not understand how to properly train him in positive ways. Then my girlfriend convinced me that getting another dog would be beneficial to his development because he would socialize and have a play mate. 


After getting the female, we put both of them in obedience class through a trainer who highly encouraged the use of pronged/shock collars. Again, I had no knowledge so I assumed this was going to be the fix of the problems and teach them obedience, trust, and respect. Since the training, they learned how to do all kinds of good behavior and obedience. It was after my male became a year old that I started seeing problems. He all of a sudden only behaved when he had either a pronged/shock collar on. When they are off, he could care less about behaving. He has since started attacking (sometimes hurting) the female and I am unsure why. He constantly tries to bolt out of doors before me and everyone else. He sometimes even growls at me when he is worked up and I try to correct. I have since stopped the forceful correction of alpha rolling, spanking, and the use of the collars. 


My questions are is it possible for me to salvage my relationship with my dog and build a solid bond of trust and obedience? (One where I am the leader and he is not)
How do I specifically correct him when he acts wild, attacks the female, or in general doesn't follow commands? 
How do you manage to stay calm and collected when your dogs act crazy? 
Should I think about getting rid of the female because he is going to hurt her at some point? 
In general, is his behavior true aggression, or could it be dominance, or possibly a lack of exercise and stored up high energy? 
I am open to learning how to get a handle on his behavior and I am willing to learn how to be a positive leader of my dogs. I want nothing more than to have a strong bond of trust, respect, and companionship with both of my dogs. 


Thanks again,


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Your dog really needs to be evaluated in person. I think it's probably a combination of this. Poor initial training, a male growing into his big boy pants, new owner.

I absolutely commend you for growing, quickly, with better training methods and wanting to learn. That's 99% of the battle. 

Where are you located? Maybe we can find a good trainer in your area for you.


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

I agree with finding a trainer, alot of times you'll start seeing alot of holes in your training when the dog reaches an age of rebellion (usually around 6months-1.5 years). 

I can't say for sure, and don't take what I say as final word. But it sounds like your dog is testing you (and winning) to see what he can get away with. He may have just realized his size and power and using that to assert his dominance.. Personally I don't allow any of my dogs or the dogs I work with to push me around, especially since I'm not a very big person and working a dog with poor manners that doesn't respect me could be dangerous. 

It could also be from lack of mental and physical stimulation. I always find that any change in exercise or training regimen can lead to my dogs becoming disrespectful and unruly. 

Have the dog evaluated and personally I'd specifically look for a trainer who is well versed in German Shepherds, especially working line, IPO/ScH trainers are my personal go to because I feel the tend to understand those higher drives.


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

Jax08 said:


> Your dog really needs to be evaluated in person. I think it's probably a combination of this. Poor initial training, a male growing into his big boy pants, new owner.
> 
> I absolutely commend you for growing, quickly, with better training methods and wanting to learn. That's 99% of the battle.
> 
> Where are you located? Maybe we can find a good trainer in your area for you.



I am in the Birmingham, Alabama area. I have checked into a few local trainers but so far haven't found any that seem like a good fit.


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

Curing said:


> I agree with finding a trainer, alot of times you'll start seeing alot of holes in your training when the dog reaches an age of rebellion (usually around 6months-1.5 years).
> 
> I can't say for sure, and don't take what I say as final word. But it sounds like your dog is testing you (and winning) to see what he can get away with. He may have just realized his size and power and using that to assert his dominance.. Personally I don't allow any of my dogs or the dogs I work with to push me around, especially since I'm not a very big person and working a dog with poor manners that doesn't respect me could be dangerous.
> 
> ...



What kind of methods do you use to ensure this doesn't happen with your dogs? I am unaware of positive methods that will get the message across that he is not the one in charge.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Don't do away with corrections completely. Do watch your timing. You have to be clear about which behaviors you don't want and which ones you do. No rolling though. Wrestling a full grown GSD is not something I'd recommend. 

Work you dogs one at a time on a long line. That way you can let them have the freedom to run but you can also step on the end of the leash and bring them back to you. Try your best to follow every No with a Yes. No, you cannot chase the other dog. Yes, you can come play tug with me. No you cannot jump on me to get attention. Yes, you can sit on the rug to get my attention. (works with humans too). 

My dogs get a long walk nearly every day, 3 to 5 miles each. In the middle of the walk we sometimes do obedience games, play on toddler playgrounds, run around lamp posts, practice downs and comes. Treats or toys for reward. At home 15 minutes of good solid obedience or trick training can really calm them down. 

These are just a few ideas. But for awhile keep the dogs apart unless it is quiet time in the house. They each need their time with you alone. As someone once wrote, two dogs is three times the work..each dog worked alone and them both dogs worked together.


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

car2ner said:


> Don't do away with corrections completely. Do watch your timing. You have to be clear about which behaviors you don't want and which ones you do. No rolling though. Wrestling a full grown GSD is not something I'd recommend.
> 
> Work you dogs one at a time on a long line. That way you can let them have the freedom to run but you can also step on the end of the leash and bring them back to you. Try your best to follow every No with a Yes. No, you cannot chase the other dog. Yes, you can come play tug with me. No you cannot jump on me to get attention. Yes, you can sit on the rug to get my attention. (works with humans too).
> 
> ...



These are good ideas, so is it alright to use the shock collars as long as the timing is good and it is followed with praise? 
Also, is it a good idea to work on obedience with treat training in the middle of a high energy session of fetch or other activity?


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## Curing (Dec 4, 2017)

Jesse James said:


> What kind of methods do you use to ensure this doesn't happen with your dogs? I am unaware of positive methods that will get the message across that he is not the one in charge.


I don't really feel qualified to give those kind of suggestions just because what may work for me, might not work for your dog and I'd hate to give you a suggestion that made things worse. 

I will say there are alot of things you can do in their everyday life that will help with asserting your dominance in a non-physical way. These are a few things I do that I've seen make a huge difference in dogs that didn't have manners: 

1.Make them wait before they eat. If their attention isn't on you, they don't get the food. 
2. Make them wait before going outside, and YOU always go out first. Ask him to sit, if he stands as you open the door, close it and make him sit again until he stays seated while you open the door and until you say okay. 
3. Not allowing up on furniture or at your level. I personally allow my dogs to sleep with me and be up on furniture, but the first thing a trainer will tell you to do when your dog is testing you, is to take away privileges and ensure he knows that he ISN'T your equal. 
4. make sure all treats, toys, and anything exciting and fun come from YOU. If you let toys be our around your house, pick them up and only allow him to play whenever you give it to him. 
5. Keep him tethered to you so that you're able to make corrections. Corrections are not your enemy, a well timed correction is essential in working with bad behavior or any behavior you don't want. 
6. Take him outside on a leash, make sure he's focused on you and knows you're in control. Its going to suck, but take away his freedoms and only allowing them to come from you is going to show him that only YOU can provide him with what he wants, not himself. 

When it comes to an E-collar, you shouldn't just shock him whenever he does something bad. It has to be timed correctly for one and two should be used with a verbal correction as well such as "NO" or "Uh Uh" something he associates with the shock so that when the collar isn't on you can use the word and he'll respond. 

If you need to, start from the beginning with basics and work your way back up.


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

Curing said:


> I don't really feel qualified to give those kind of suggestions just because what may work for me, might not work for your dog and I'd hate to give you a suggestion that made things worse.
> 
> I will say there are alot of things you can do in their everyday life that will help with asserting your dominance in a non-physical way. These are a few things I do that I've seen make a huge difference in dogs that didn't have manners:
> 
> ...



Ill start working on these things immediately. I do understand methods have to be different from dog to dog and person to person. I already use the food method by making them wait to eat until I say so. I will work on the door, the toys, and the furniture also. Thank you for all your advice. I may have to start over, just as long as I can have a solid relationship with him and it isn't too late to correct, re train, and re-establish trust?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

This is not a criticism but an observation. The behavior seems new to you because you don’t have prior German Shepherd experience. He probably gave signals or subtle clues that he was pushing back and you missed them until they were so extreme that you could not ignore his behaviors. There is a reason why GSDS often show up in rescue between 1-2 years old. People can’t handle a mature dog who is not trained properly for its temperament and drive. He came into full maturity around 18 months and he is pushing you and your other dog around because he can. 

I worry about people using an e collar with two dogs. If you correct him when she is anywhere near his neck, he will think it came from her and he will react. You could have accidentally taught him to attack her. When you say attack what do you mean? Is he just pushy or is he trying to hurt her intentionally? I have used an E but never when my dogs are together. It is only a signal, not a punishment. I am guessing you need to learn to use it differently, as well as the prong. Don’t get rid of her. Being submissive could be a good balance to his temperament once they are both well trained.

He has learned to behave in a training collar. Do you ever train when he is off leash or not in a collar indoors? If you only train him in a collar, he has not learned to follow commands without it. You need to work on that.

My dogs door fight. For some reason, a door is a trigger. I have taught them both to sit and stay when I open the door. Then I release them one at a time. They don’t even try to wrestle with each other when I do that. 

This sounds like something you can learn to deal with but you must have a good trainer who understands high drive working dogs. Is there an IPO club in your city? I would start there and ask for recommendations.


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## willoglen (Aug 4, 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/central.alabamaschutzhund/

https://www.facebook.com/Jefferson-St-Clair-County-SchH-Association-549323541834573/

I am also in Alabama, and I have these 2 clubs as possibilities. Please note: I do NOT have any personal experience with either club as I have not yet attended any of their training sessions. I do know people who are active in one or both clubs.


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

LuvShepherds said:


> This is not a criticism but an observation. The behavior seems new to you because you don’t have prior German Shepherd experience. He probably gave signals or subtle clues that he was pushing back and you missed them until they were so extreme that you could not ignore his behaviors. There is a reason why GSDS often show up in rescue between 1-2 years old. People can’t handle a mature dog who is not trained properly for its temperament and drive. He came into full maturity around 18 months and he is pushing you and your other dog around because he can.
> 
> I worry about people using an e collar with two dogs. If you correct him when she is anywhere near his neck, he will think it came from her and he will react. You could have accidentally taught him to attack her. When you say attack what do you mean? Is he just pushy or is he trying to hurt her intentionally? I have used an E but never when my dogs are together. It is only a signal, not a punishment. I am guessing you need to learn to use it differently, as well as the prong. Don’t get rid of her. Being submissive could be a good balance to his temperament once they are both well trained.
> 
> ...



As far as him attacking her, it normally starts with him just walking over to her and putting her head or back side of her neck in his mouth. Then it can escalate to him pushing her and bumping her around. When they are outside together I have seen him run at her full speed and knock her over, then growl at her when she tries to get up. I have also seen her simply walk by him and he will jump on her and it will be an actual dog fight. so pretty much everything in the spectrum I guess. 


When he attacks her it is mostly because she has gotten near him when he is eating, chewing a toy, and when she approaches me when I am petting him. However, I have seen him do these things for no apparent reason. I have to note, that he rarely growls at me but it has happened in moments of high stress. 


That is a good point, I have never considered when I correct him when she is around how he could relate it to her. 
When you ask about him behaving in a training collar, do you mean a pronged, ecollar, or chock chain? I do work on obedience with him with no collars on when we are inside and I have pieces of kibble in my hand. I keep it positive and reward him for following basic commands in this context. It is when he is wound up, outside, or otherwise distracted that he doesn't listen.


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

willoglen said:


> https://www.facebook.com/central.alabamaschutzhund/
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Jefferson-St-Clair-County-SchH-Association-549323541834573/
> 
> I am also in Alabama, and I have these 2 clubs as possibilities. Please note: I do NOT have any personal experience with either club as I have not yet attended any of their training sessions. I do know people who are active in one or both clubs.



Do the people you know have good things to say or recommend either club? I have looked them up and have sent messages but let me know what your friends say also. Thanks


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## Evohog (Jul 18, 2017)

From what you're saying, I don't believe your dog is ready for an E-collar. He needs his on leash obedience worked on first. Once that is solid you can return to the e-collar.
Curing had some good advice for you in above post.
I to think that you should see a trainer and you may have to start back from the beginning.
As far as your girl goes, don't give up on her yet. Can you keep them separated? Crate?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Wound up could mean he is in drive mode. Find a trainer who can teach you how to use his drive to work with him when he is in that mode and also how to pull him out of drive. I have a high drive WL dog. I spent a lot of time “capping.” Focus, eye contact, long sit stays. Then I began working with a trainer who has a lot of WL experience, and learned how to work him while he is in drive also. It literally save me from losing him, when both dogs got into drive chasing a wild animal and my rescue, took off. I called my WL back to a Front position and he recalled instantly. My other one eventually came back, but not on my terms. You can do this!

Mine do that as well, but not over food. They have wrestled over toys, and he has grabbed her. Much of it is play, and she gives back as good as she gets, but you need to learn the difference and how to stop it. If he is hurting her at all, it must be stopped. My female rescue is very tough and I rarely stop them unless it escalates. I have learned when their sounds change pitch or are more intense than play to cut it off immediately.

Pushing and bumping may be herding behavior. Mine both do that. Again, I look for intensity or what you call stress. If they are anxious or getting too wild, I stop it.


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

LuvShepherds said:


> Wound up could mean he is in drive mode. Find a trainer who can teach you how to use his drive to work with him when he is in that mode and also how to pull him out of drive. I have a high drive WL dog. I spent a lot of time “capping.” Focus, eye contact, long sit stays. Then I began working with a trainer who has a lot of WL experience, and learned how to work him while he is in drive also. It literally save me from losing him, when both dogs got into drive chasing a wild animal and my rescue, took off. I called my WL back to a Front position and he recalled instantly. My other one eventually came back, but not on my terms. You can do this!
> 
> Mine do that as well, but not over food. They have wrestled over toys, and he has grabbed her. Much of it is play, and she gives back as good as she gets, but you need to learn the difference and how to stop it. If he is hurting her at all, it must be stopped. My female rescue is very tough and I rarely stop them unless it escalates. I have learned when their sounds change pitch or are more intense than play to cut it off immediately.
> 
> Pushing and bumping may be herding behavior. Mine both do that. Again, I look for intensity or what you call stress. If they are anxious or getting too wild, I stop it.


What is "capping"?


Maybe I am unaware of the meaning of their sounds and body language but when mine jumps on the girl, he is growling loudly, and she is yelping trying to get away from him. He has only drawn blood on her once, the rest of the times it has just been a lot of noise and slobber on her with no apparent injuries. Anytime this happens I have to grab him by his collar and pull him off of her cause he never seems to stop on his own. Though I don't let it go on for more than a few seconds because I run to them as soon as it starts. I'm not experienced enough to understand what this all could add up to. 


Thanks for the support and the advice!


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

Evohog said:


> From what you're saying, I don't believe your dog is ready for an E-collar. He needs his on leash obedience worked on first. Once that is solid you can return to the e-collar.
> Curing had some good advice for you in above post.
> I to think that you should see a trainer and you may have to start back from the beginning.
> As far as your girl goes, don't give up on her yet. Can you keep them separated? Crate?



I do currently keep them separated unless I have exercised them and I am there to watch them. I will look into starting from the beginning. Thanks


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Jesse James said:


> What is "capping"?
> 
> 
> Maybe I am unaware of the meaning of their sounds and body language but when mine jumps on the girl, he is growling loudly, and she is yelping trying to get away from him. He has only drawn blood on her once, the rest of the times it has just been a lot of noise and slobber on her with no apparent injuries. Anytime this happens I have to grab him by his collar and pull him off of her cause he never seems to stop on his own. Though I don't let it go on for more than a few seconds because I run to them as soon as it starts. I'm not experienced enough to understand what this all could add up to.
> ...


That needs to be stopped. I agree.

Capping is mostly, if I understand right, when a dog can control and use their own drive. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8908809-post82.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/156976-capping-drive.html


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Here is the map of all the USCA clubs. Don't be afraid to contact the clubs to see if there are any trainers in your area.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/v...83&hl=en&z=7&mid=16ZQxsD-mj939hJW9y82DrziNS5U


Just because I recognize the names, I would start with Jefferson-St. Clair club.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

The poor female. I would rehome her. He is over the top dominating her. Sounds like he's all about dominance. Do you have a wife or SO? If so, how does he act toward them? Yes he's also in the butth_ stage but this is no way for a girl dog to live.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Nurse Bishop said:


> The poor female. I would rehome her. He is over the top dominating her. Sounds like he's all about dominance. Do you have a wife or SO? If so, how does he act toward them? Yes he's also in the butth_ stage but this is no way for a girl dog to live.


Using your reasoning, why not give up the male? The female is an easier dog. He should at least get a trainer evaluation and try to train both to live together.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

My 2 cents. You got the male when he was only 6 weeks old so he has missed out on social lessons and doesn't have a clue what appropriate dog behavior is. These dogs tend to be pushy and demanding. It doesn't show up until later in life so as puppies, nothing seems to be off. This doesn't go for every pup in that situation but it does for your dog evidently. It is not his or your fault. It looks like you have to manage the two for the fully 100% in order to keep her safe. Make sure they don't breed in the meantime. Be honest with yourself and if you decide you can't do this, keep the dog you like the best and find the best home possible for the other. It is really nice that you are sticking around and take advice because many don't in these situations.


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## willoglen (Aug 4, 2013)

The people I know really like the club that they are in, and the really hardcore ones are in both clubs. I have spoken with the people at Central, and they encourage "newbies" to come out a couple of times with their dogs as a guest. I show horses, so I am iffy on making the commitment to IPO.


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## willoglen (Aug 4, 2013)

For what it's worth, I would try to visit both clubs a couple of times each and see which is the best fit for you and your dog.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Are either of these dogs spayed/neutered? Are they crate trained? How much mental stimulation are they getting?
The male sounds like he is being a butthead, he's at that age. Think 16 year old human male. No offense.
If it were my dog I would keep him tethered to me or crated. Lots of on leash obedience, and I do mean lots. Find a good local trainer for him. 
Lose the ecollar and go with a prong or a choke if you can handle him. Look up NILIF and live by it. 
Leave the female be for now. You sound smart and what you learn from the trainer you can use with the female. But keep them separated. Whether he is hurting her or she is just a soft dog, if she's yelping she isn't having fun.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

San makes a good point, not just mental stimulation but exercise. They need a lot, off leash.


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

They are both crate trained, neither are spayed or neutered. They get as much stimulation as I can deliver. I work long hours unfortunately and during the day i have someone come let them out to use the bathroom and make sure they stay separated. However, it seems like I am the only one implementing any kind of training on them and the ones I have helping don't focus on that so much. As soon as I get home everyday I work with both of them, exercise them hard, and work on some training sessions as well. All as much as I can within the time frame of after work to bedtime.

I have a girlfriend who is long distance, when she is around the male has a stronger tendency to dominate the female, when it is only me, he does not do it near as much. It seems when any female is around he attacks her because it has happened in front of female family members. It never happens with my father or any male figures though for some strange reason. My girlfriend and I are discussing her taking the female. That would ideally be best because I don't want to ever have to give up a dog I have raised to someone I don't know. Although I understand sometimes situations are difficult.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Jesse James said:


> They are both crate trained, neither are spayed or neutered. They get as much stimulation as I can deliver. I work long hours unfortunately and during the day i have someone come let them out to use the bathroom and make sure they stay separated. However, it seems like I am the only one implementing any kind of training on them and the ones I have helping don't focus on that so much. As soon as I get home everyday I work with both of them, exercise them hard, and work on some training sessions as well. All as much as I can within the time frame of after work to bedtime.


How do you find quality time with your girlfriend? I mean this in a respectful way. So his behavior changes when she is around? That means there is tension in him and he redirects it to the female dog. That is a red flag to me. He really needs to be reeled in. Do not ever give him another chance to bully your female dog. I don't know how serious your relationship is with your girl friend but the dogs can easily live another 10 years. Does she like the dogs? Is she able to handle him if need be? If the male is not under control he can hurt her since she is not part of the pack according to the bratty prince. Please keep us posted. We are all rooting for you and the dogs.


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

Possibly quick fix for the prong collar:

Don't let him wear it only during walks. Put it on him 30 minutes before walk. And take it off 30 minutes after walk. Also let him wear it randomly during the day. During feeding, during in house training.

Now he is conditioned, that collar is on only during walks. And correction can come only during walks. It's like telling him "now is serious time, now you have to listen" and "it is free time, do whatever you want".

By that approach you will desensitize him to this learned behavior.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

andywhite said:


> Possibly quick fix for the prong collar:
> 
> Don't let him wear it only during walks. Put it on him 30 minutes before walk. And take it off 30 minutes after walk. Also let him wear it randomly during the day. During feeding, during in house training.
> 
> ...


This dog should not have any free time to do what he wants. It caused the problem in the first place. Instead: exercise, training, NILIF and crate time and tethering to owner (echoing Sabis Mom) I would use the prong whenever you are working with him, not in the crate or unsupervised. And again, no access to the female. How does he react when she is in heat? How do you manage him then?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

I'd crate and rotate them until you can talk to a trainer. All of this advice being thrown around can be confusing to someone new. 
I wouldn't rehome either dog, but try to work through issues. Who really knows if it's dominance? 

Out of curiosity, has your girl been in heat yet?


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

When she was in heat I moved her to my family members house for the entire (give or take a day) 3 week process. After it was over with, i brought her back to my house where they got along instantly. Aside from him trying to mount her a few times and smelling her a lot, they were fine. It wasn't until a couple of weeks later that he started the bullying behavior. 

When my girlfriend is around she is slightly more slack in their training than I am. Not to say that she is not doing a good job, but I think it may lead to inconsistant discipline and training for both dogs. 

As of tonight my female has been terrified of the male, there was only one instance tonight when he tried to put her neck in his mouth, and she won't go near him unfortunately. So with all these details through this thread (and I greatly appreciate everyones answers, advice, and help)...

How do I implement the NILIF training when I am gone 11 hours a day? Do I keep them crated all day and instruct the people who help me to let them out separately to use the bathroom, then back to the crates? I currently leave the girl in the back of the house with access to outside and I leave the boy in the house and they are separated all day when I am gone. 
Then when I get home, put the pronged collar on and have leash in hand constantly? 
Im guessing its safe to play fetch with him to burn energy if he's by himself? 

I guess I have to crack down on the training and the working with them, cause i don't want a future of a bratty dog and also one that could be dangerous. Thanks again for everyones advice and support. I am starting immediately.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Breathe. LOL

Crate him while you are gone as long as someone can get him out for a potty break he will be fine. I work to, most of us do and all of our dogs have survived despite the nay sayers. 
Tethered to you at all times. Yes play fetch with him by himself then right back on his tether. He wants to eat, he needs to down. He wants outside he needs to sit. No freedom in the house, he has lost that privilege. 
Again think grounded teenager for mouthing off. Obedience and more obedience. 
I would strongly suggest you work with a trainer and make sure they know this breed. I am not thinking aggression, I think he's a brat and a bully. 
Keep at it, you've got this.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Just a note on the IPO clubs. You don't need to join them. That was not my intent on posting that info. Just reach out to them to find a balanced trainer to help with your behavioral issues. I don't know the names at the Central club. I'm sure they are great, knowledgeable, people. I do know the names at the Jefferson club so I feel confident in recommending that one. I'm sure if you sent Madison an email she could help point you in the right direction.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Mav_dad said:


> As of tonight my female has been terrified of the male, there was only one instance tonight when he tried to put her neck in his mouth, and she won't go near him unfortunately. So with all these details through this thread (and I greatly appreciate everyones answers, advice, and help)...


Why are these two dogs still within each other's reach after all the warnings you got? He is going to seriously hurt her. Look at her, she is right to be terrified of him.
I'm going to tell you this: in your situation I would find a nice, sweet home for her and keep the male since you know him well and are invested in him. His chances for a strong owner/successful adoption are not as great.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

To add a note on the NILIF - while beginning this you may or in this case- probably will- see an escalation of bratty/bad behavior.

Agree with others - either keep the dogs separated or rehome the female. If the male continues abusing the female, she is going to be injured or you are going to end up with a dog aggressive female


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Twyla said:


> To add a note on the NILIF - while beginning this you may or in this case- probably will- see an escalation of bratty/bad behavior.
> 
> *Agree with others - either keep the dogs separated or rehome the female. If the male continues abusing the female, she is going to be injured or you are going to end up with a dog aggressive female*


Totally agree with this! And typically girls hold grudges like mad. It's sort of like telling a woman to get over it. Never going to happen!


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

I have started working on the NILIF training at home now, I keep them separate unless under close supervision, and I am visiting the local clubs to start pursuing avenues of training and starting over from the beginning. I appreciate all the support and advice from everyone. I'm not going to give up on it! My girlfriend is taking the female in May so until that time ill put in every effort to keep her safe and him better trained. Thanks again, and any additional info, advice, and thoughts are always appreciated!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

That sounds like a good solution, but still work on his behaviors so they can be together if your girlfriend brings the female for a visit. You don’t want him acting like that with any other dogs. Starting training soon, while she is still in your home, is a good idea.

I agree if one method of training or handling isn’t working, try something else. He is not too old to make changes. I adopted a 6 yr old rescued male once who had a bad habit of biting people he didn’t care for. But I worked with him a lot and eventually got rid of many bad habits, like spinning, peeing in the house and not knowing how to walk on a leash. We trained on specific issues until he was over 8. He became a very good pet until he passed at an old age.


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## Mav_dad (Feb 26, 2018)

I have one final question. With a dog of his size, strength, and attitude, what should I do specifically to “correct” bad behavior? Depending on the severity of it and what tools I have to use? I have pronged collars and things like that. Can y’all give me some examples of what y’all do/did that were positive but also useful to get a message across that they cannot behave like that? Basically ones that are not damaging and negative to his development. So I have ideas to carry in the future moments of his bad bahvior throughout the process.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mav_dad said:


> I have started working on the NILIF training at home now, I keep them separate unless under close supervision, and I am visiting the local clubs to start pursuing avenues of training and starting over from the beginning. I appreciate all the support and advice from everyone. I'm not going to give up on it! My girlfriend is taking the female in May so until that time ill put in every effort to keep her safe and him better trained. Thanks again, and any additional info, advice, and thoughts are always appreciated!


I would just like to add....

...You ROCK....

So many people come here and only want their position validated. You are just so open. You are going to be spectacular! Today NILIF, tomorrow IPO3!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mav_dad said:


> I have one final question. With a dog of his size, strength, and attitude, what should I do specifically to “correct” bad behavior? Depending on the severity of it and what tools I have to use? I have pronged collars and things like that. Can y’all give me some examples of what y’all do/did that were positive but also useful to get a message across that they cannot behave like that? Basically ones that are not damaging and negative to his development. So I have ideas to carry in the future moments of his bad bahvior throughout the process.



This is going to depend on the dog and the situation. What is a harsh correction for my dog would probably be peanuts for your dog. And the better relationship, the better the trust, the better he understands working with you gets him more than working alone, the less correction you will need.

Your correction could be an e-collar, could be the prong or could just be not giving him a reward. It's all situational. Don't get stuck on correction collars being all negative. They aren't working because of the foundation you started with. You had no balance of good vs. incorrect. You had no balance of "want to" and "have to".

My advice is manage him until you visit the clubs and get input from someone who has evaluated him. Just wait and be patient.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Don't worry if he seems to get worse. Before it gets better, it often gets worse. Stay the course and your ground. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a quick change. Dogs crave leadership.
As a trainer in private home visits I often saw how these dogs clinged to me, just because I gave them structure. As an owner you to have to prove yourself more. Enjoy him.
I am happy that you took the advice.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Mav_dad said:


> I have one final question. With a dog of his size, strength, and attitude, what should I do specifically to “correct” bad behavior? Depending on the severity of it and what tools I have to use? I have pronged collars and things like that. Can y’all give me some examples of what y’all do/did that were positive but also useful to get a message across that they cannot behave like that? Basically ones that are not damaging and negative to his development. So I have ideas to carry in the future moments of his bad bahvior throughout the process.


You have received suggestions. Try what you learned and see what works best. Sometimes it’s trial and error. I have one rescue who can’t tolerate any harsh corrections. I know this sounds ridiculous but when I got her, they were using a squirt bottle with plain tap water in it and she responded. When she is being horrible. and sneaking away all my other dog’s toys then hoarding them, I don’t need to do anything but pick up a squirt bottle. She immediately gives the toys back, without even a squirt going her direction.


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