# Overwhelming anger while training with Kira



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

I was in my local Trader Joe’s which Kira is allowed in because she is an ESA and I was training and someone went up to her and pet the crap out of her while I was there. I tried saying please don’t pet her she’s working but nobody listens. I was basically in tears because when she gets overwhelmed by people touching her she screams and talks like any gsd and I kept saying it don’t touch her. They were poking her nose and everything and this nice lady that had 3 gsd at home kept apologizing to me and offered to take my cart so I could take her outside and let her unwind but I persevered and this idiot that I already said don’t touch her to did it again. She was behaving so well and sat perfectly in her cart and didn’t move out of her sit and people were pointing and poking her.. I almost screamed don’t touch my dog biach … but that would be rude. The situation gave me more anxiety than the esa could handle. She didn’t have a vest because they don’t make vests small enough for this little pup and she’s growing every day. Also what person touches a dog without asking… also training isn’t bulletproof. Especially with a puppy… she was doing so well like astronomically well and then an ass had to make all the hours of training disappear. And with that I’m in my car crying and she’s pooped. Looking at her is enough to set her off. She’s two months old she loves to work. It makes her happy. Her tail was wagging as she was sitting in her place blanket in her cart. The manager on my way out said she isn’t allowed to sit in the cart.. she would get ran over by a cart if she wasn’t in one. I’m overwhelmed onto the next grocery store. Hopefully a terrible human wont pet her or poke her nose this time around.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Just a heads up, Emotional support animals do not have public access rights and are not covered under ADA. Service dogs on the other hand _do_ have access but should not be placed in carts. Especially those designed to hold food. The manager is correct.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

She’s in training as a psychiatric service animal but is currently considered an emotional support animal because I don’t have the certificate for her as a psa yet I think it will be here in the coming weeks but it makes me so freaked out when people poke her. In Cali we are slowly doing away with esa stuff as the department says.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I cannot envision a GSD puppy sitting in a cart and wagging her tail: the ones I have known were serious and observant. It all sounds very dramatic. Has she specifically been bred to be an ESA? Why did you pick her? Do you have trainer working with you? Fodder is right: an ESA doesn't have the same access as a trained SD.


----------



## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

I agree with the puppy in the cart. This whole thing seems weird. If she's a service dog in training she should have the proper vest. Plus if she's training she shouldn't be in a cart. Her job training doesn't involve the cart. She should be walking. I think if the dog is in public and people aren't listening to you then you should speak up and mean it. And people petting without asking deserve to be put in their spot.

If you own a GSD you need to be in charge and develop a backbone. I use to be shy growing up, but that's changed a lot as I got older. You're not to bend over and please everyone or they step all over you. And believe me they will.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

For sanitary reasons a dog should never sit in a cart even if she was allowed. Trader Joe’s should have asked you to leave. They can get written up in a health violation if someone took a picture and reported you. Please follow Fodder’s advice.

No one should ever touch your dog without permission. It’s your responsibility to make sure that doesn’t happen when you are out anywhere in public. You have to be observant and if you even see someone reaching toward her put your hand up and tell them to stop! If you can’t do it by yourself, bring someone with you to help.


----------



## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

She's only 8 weeks old? She can't have even begun training yet. I'm sorry you were upset, but the manager had a valid point. There are laws regarding service animals that must be followed for the protection of all.


----------



## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

You need to be working with a trainer for this. 2 people can keep people at bay and help you from making small mistakes that can be tough to fix. This little dog isn't doing its work as an ESA if taking her along is creating more frustration and anger. Please work with someone who is familiar with the service animal training routine.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> I cannot envision a GSD puppy sitting in a cart and wagging her tail: the ones I have known were serious and observant. It all sounds very dramatic. Has she specifically been bred to be an ESA? Why did you pick her? Do you have trainer working with you? Fodder is right: an ESA doesn't have the same access as a trained SD.


She is a rescue but I have a trainer working with her so she can task as she learns and progresses but she doesn’t have a vest yet as she’s so small still. My trainer said she technically doesn’t have to be marked but it stops people from bothering her but for now I can just advocate for her. She was picked out of her litter for how calm and observant she is. She is technically a psychiatric service dog in training but she also has an emotional support certificate. I struggle with an anxiety condition that I’ve had for a while. I know it was wrong on my part to not say service animal in training but I froze up and was overwhelmed truthfully. I know the manager was in the right but I was scared of her getting hit by an idiot with a cart as it was really full today and I couldn’t leave her alone. My main point of frustration was poking her. Multiple people kept poking her after I asked them to please stop she is working and at that point she was freaked out and I was half way into a panic attack over people touching her. My trainer wants her to get use to being around and heeling around crowds of people.


ksotto333 said:


> She's only 8 weeks old? She can't have even begun training yet. I'm sorry you were upset, but the manager had a valid point. There are laws regarding service animals that must be followed for the protection of all.


 She’s 11 weeks old and is learning basic obedience and learning to perform commands and tasks around people and distractions while she is still young before she learns larger tasks like spotting anxiety attack symptoms and comforting. I know the manager was right and I was trying to make the trip quick as I didn’t know it was so crowded that day and I didn’t want her getting hit by a cart and causing her to have a negative view of stores. there was a lot of people. I would have left without doing anything after I saw a crowd but I genuinely had to pick up groceries and didn’t feel comfortable leaving her in my car alone so I tried to rush.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

car2ner said:


> You need to be working with a trainer for this. 2 people can keep people at bay and help you from making small mistakes that can be tough to fix. This little dog isn't doing its work as an ESA if taking her along is creating more frustration and anger. Please work with someone who is familiar with the service animal training routine.


She has a trainer but we are doing things mostly virtual for now and she’s teaching me little things like how to introduce her to boundaries ( sliding doors) and corrections with a slip and how to give her confidence when walking in public with distractions. I will keep her away from places until I can meet my trainer in person later this month. She is going to begin tasking training when she has enough confidence with the basics thank you for your understanding I use this thread as a place to vent and find my people. sometimes anxiety gets really bad and talking to my family or people that don’t see how much Akira actually helps me makes life really hard. I know she is lightly trained but her being there is enough to make me feel not alone. She communicates with me through her leash and it’s something really special.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

LuvShepherds said:


> For sanitary reasons a dog should never sit in a cart even if she was allowed. Trader Joe’s should have asked you to leave. They can get written up in a health violation if someone took a picture and reported you. Please follow Fodder’s advice.
> 
> No one should ever touch your dog without permission. It’s your responsibility to make sure that doesn’t happen when you are out anywhere in public. You have to be observant and if you even see someone reaching toward her put your hand up and tell them to stop! If you can’t do it by yourself, bring someone with you to help.


I agree with you and I know I was in the wrong . Next time I will bring someone to help and avoid such crowded places until I am certain.I let her in the cart simply because I didn’t know it was going to be crowded and was afraid someone would hit her with a cart and cause a negative experience and I genuinely needed groceries and leaving her in the car alone would have freaked her out. I tried stopping people and I yelled at a man but I guess I wasn’t loud enough. Next time I will bring my trainer or someone familiar with training and have them help me keep the people at bay.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

AE316 said:


> I agree with the puppy in the cart. This whole thing seems weird. If she's a service dog in training she should have the proper vest. Plus if she's training she shouldn't be in a cart. Her job training doesn't involve the cart. She should be walking. I think if the dog is in public and people aren't listening to you then you should speak up and mean it. And people petting without asking deserve to be put in their spot.
> 
> If you own a GSD you need to be in charge and develop a backbone. I use to be shy growing up, but that's changed a lot as I got older. You're not to bend over and please everyone or they step all over you. And believe me they will.


I’m sorry its weird I probably didn’t go into enough detail and wrote the post more as a stress post and it helped me feel like I had someone to talk to. I know the cart isn’t part of her training I initially brought her to help her practice her heel in public around crowds and going through the sliding doors but it was so busy and I was afraid she would be hit by a shopping cart. I was alone so I couldn’t leave her alone in the car. I actually needed to pick up a few things this time so I couldn’t just leave. I spoke up but I’m not as loud as the average. I have a backbone but at home with Kira and my family or in the community but not in crowded, loud and overwhelming places. In public my anxiety takes a front seat, Kira is teaching me every day about advocating for her and I’m learning and changing as time passes. Also she hasn’t gotten a vest yet as she’s so small, My trainer says she can be unmarked but the vest helps at keeping people away but for now to just speak up. I will order her an in training patch etc and sew it onto her daily harness until the standard isn’t a dress. Thank you for supporting and educating me you help me grow


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

I know I’m in the wrong and I’m sorry I hope upon looking this over my responses to those that replied is a little more detailed and helps the picture a little more. I don’t have much but I do have my Kira and I’m doing my best to make our lives safe and enjoyable. I’m sorry if I angered anyone or my lack of detail etc made it a little confusing I’m working on this forum thing. Ive never had an account before so I’m doing my best to try to fit everything into a little square and helping paint an actually understandable picture from just that. Please just view me as your kid from my understanding I’m the youngest person on the forum and often it really shows I’m inexperienced at life and am bad at a lot of this but *I’m genuinely doing my absolute best and trying to improve and grow daily. So if you have something you think I can learn from I’m all ears but know I have no ill intent or anything. I will do whatever it takes for Akira
Hope with time we can all become friends <3 *
*ps my name is Emi *


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

If your trainer told you to do this, in all honesty, I would find another trainer.

If she is to help you with your anxiety, she needs to be professionally trained, because dogs are emotional sponges, and an anxious owner will transfer that to the dog. So now you would have two who are anxious, neither helping the other. And an anxious GSD is a liability, and a nightmare to manage, even by someone experienced.
I don’t know what sort of program you joined, but if this is what they tell you to do, I would look elsewhere.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Sunflowers said:


> If your trainer told you to do this, in all honesty, I would find another trainer.
> 
> If she is to help you with your anxiety, she needs to be professionally trained, because dogs are emotional sponges, and an anxious owner will transfer that to the dog. So now you would have two who are anxious, neither helping the other. And an anxious GSD is a liability, and a nightmare to manage, even by someone experienced.
> I don’t know what sort of program you joined, but if this is what they tell you to do, I would look elsewhere.


I will thank you


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I would think that if you are a person with anxiety you would benefit from a trained adult dog from an accredited organization. She was a rescue you mentioned. It seems rare for a rescue dog to work as a natural service dog. It requires hand picking by knowledgeable trainers. Everyone put a lot on this puppy's plate. What will her future task be? Can you post where you are located so maybe someone here can get you in touch with a good trainer?


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> I would think that if you are a person with anxiety you would benefit from a trained adult dog from an accredited organization. She was a rescue you mentioned. It seems rare for a rescue dog to work as a natural service dog. It requires hand picking by knowledgeable trainers. Everyone put a lot on this puppy's plate. What will her future task be?


I think after talking to everyone I may just work on having Akira be our companion dog and in the future maybe find a trained adult dog once Kira is all settled and grown up. years down the line maybe. My trainer said it was okay that she was a rescue so I didn’t think anything of it but you are informed and I trust you. I never intended to put a lot on her plate and honestly just trusted the trainer. I will make more informed decisions going forward


----------



## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

At 11 weeks old I think maybe you shouldn't be training her already at public places. Take baby steps. Work with her at the house then move on to the yard. And if she's coming along in the car put her in a small crate such as a travelling one. Otherwise she could chew on stuff and get hurt. I leave mine in the back of a SUV without a crate. She only chewed on one thing and I corrected her on that. Most of our drives are short otherwise she'll lay on the back. If she starts to get destructive have stuff for her to play with also.

I agree with others about seeking the proper help. Not everyone is a good trainer.

And if you do get 2 dogs in the future it's a lot of work. Especially if they start fights. You should talk to people who have 2 and do research before taking that step. Not everyday is going to be great like the small moments they show on TV. Real life isn't perfect especially based on an adult dog's temper. Some are goofy and enjoy anyone. Others are serious business and dont care much for affection.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

AE316 said:


> At 11 weeks old I think maybe you shouldn't be training her already at public places. Take baby steps. Work with her at the house then move on to the yard. And if she's coming along in the car put her in a small crate such as a travelling one. Otherwise she could chew on stuff and get hurt. I leave mine in the back of a SUV without a crate. She only chewed on one thing and I corrected her on that. Most of our drives are short otherwise she'll lay on the back. If she starts to get destructive have stuff for her to play with also.
> 
> I agree with others about seeking the proper help. Not everyone is a good trainer.


kira is honestly really amazing in the car. She lays on the floor for a good 30 min drive and doesn’t chew a thing and just falls asleep until ready to go wherever we are going. Ive never felt comfortable leaving her alone in the car but maybe I should practice in our driveway with the windows cracked incase something happens and I need to grab a quick thing and let her relax. I carry her crate blanket and teething chew wherever she goes so she never has that chance to chew the wrong thing. I will follow your advice


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Kira, take a deep breath and enjoy your puppy. Take it easy for you and her. I think you made a wise decision in having her for your pet. I honestly think that most of our dogs are in some way our emotional support animals. I am happier when I am with my dogs than being by myself, no matter where that is. She may be what you need as a pet dog but of course that is just a guess. Stick around and read all topics on this forum that can help you.


----------



## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

A rescue CAN become a service dog, and it's best to begin GENERAL training early, but she's way too young to begin anything serious yet. That includes going into public places not meant for dogs.

The washout rate is incredibly high, however, so like everyone else, I would be second guessing this trainer. But, benefit of the doubt, it's possible there was a miscommunication or misunderstanding here, and you should sit down for a serious talk with your trainer. Get a detailed timeline and plan for training. Set goals. What will the pup be expected to do and how will she be trained to do it?

There's a possibility she'll grow up to be perfect at the tasks you want her to perform, but it won't happen immediately and you have to be careful, because too many negative experiences can ruin her chances.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

A rescue?
No, nononono.

Service dogs come from a certain breeding stock, and even puppies from those places sometimes wash out.
It takes the right temperament and the proper training to turn a pup into a service dog, and the training works out to around $10,000 and at least a year. 

Service dogs are never put in a grocery cart.
Never.

Rethinking this is a good idea.


----------



## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

Does anyone have a used harness that is stickered and Akira could borrow until she grows out of it? they do expand quite a bit. Or maybe a sweater that you could put a temp label on? We used to write our kids name and a phone number with embroidery paint on a t-shirt for our kids to wear when traveling (boys!) in case they wandered off in an airport. No reason you couldn't take and old t-shirt and write something like 'service dog in training do not pet' on it. 

but yeah, I do not like using a cart that has had a diapered baby or a dog sitting in the seat for my groceries. I put the shopping bags up there. That can't be sanitary. I was reading this editorial the other day about how many problems our society has and it all seems to track back to a lack of empathy. Not sure empathy could fix everything but I think it's a start. 

How can we help ?


----------



## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

If it's hot in the car even with the window cracked best not to leave her in the car. Leave her home with a fan or ac on. When I run errands at times I'll bring her with me and leave her in the vehicle. She won't be doing that come the hot days. You should work on leaving her home in a crate also if you haven't started.


----------



## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

Sunflowers said:


> A rescue?
> No, nononono.











4 Organizations That Rescue Shelter Dogs to be Service Animals - Goodnet


These nonprofits are working to show that shelter dogs are loyal companions and can serve as therapy dogs for people in need.




www.goodnet.org















There used to be a show I can't remember the name of where two professional trainers adopted pound puppies and made them service dogs. It CAN happen. Not saying it WILL, just that it CAN.

I agree it's usually extremely expensive, though. Especially if owner trained.


----------



## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

And tell the idiots who insist on petting Akira that if they don't stop interfering with her training you will have to leave the store. Bore them to tears explaining how the dog must be trained to ignore everything going on around her and concentrate on her training and duties. Sometimes you just have to be blunt with people.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

AE316 said:


> At 11 weeks old I think maybe you shouldn't be training her already at public places. Take baby steps. Work with her at the house then move on to the yard. And if she's coming along in the car put her in a small crate such as a travelling one. Otherwise she could chew on stuff and get hurt. I leave mine in the back of a SUV without a crate. She only chewed on one thing and I corrected her on that. Most of our drives are short otherwise she'll lay on the back. If she starts to get destructive have stuff for her to play with also.
> 
> I agree with others about seeking the proper help. Not everyone is a good trainer.
> 
> And if you do get 2 dogs in the future it's a lot of work. Especially if they start fights. You should talk to people who have 2 and do research before taking that step. Not everyday is going to be great like the small moments they show on TV. Real life isn't perfect especially based on an adult dog's temper. Some are goofy and enjoy anyone. Others are serious business and dont care much for affection.


I have 3 dogs as of now 2 pits and our little Kira they all get along but I take it slow. they are separated from our Kira. The 2 pits are really my moms dogs but it’s a little family so they are basically mine as I care for them all. I also have cats that get along with everyone even the pups and its all good. It’s a lot of work surely but they are my full time job and the love is priceless


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Rabidwolfie said:


> 4 Organizations That Rescue Shelter Dogs to be Service Animals - Goodnet
> 
> 
> These nonprofits are working to show that shelter dogs are loyal companions and can serve as therapy dogs for people in need.
> ...


haha that’s such a cute show I will watch it <3 rescues I know aren’t the popular choice but Kira is so special so I’m sure it will be possible but I don’t want to push her too hard. I’m scared of ruining her quality of life. I will maybe meet in the future with a better trainer and see if they like her temperament if not no harm no foul she’s my genius baby forever


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Buckelke said:


> And tell the idiots who insist on petting Akira that if they don't stop interfering with her training you will have to leave the store. Bore them to tears explaining how the dog must be trained to ignore everything going on around her and concentrate on her training and duties. Sometimes you just have to be blunt with people.


hahaha I will think of you as I do it. Make sure to add every last detail and see if petting her is still worth it. I will up the confidence


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Far to young to tryng to train or socialize in a cart in a very busy store, you've put the cart way before the horse (get it ).

You can buy collars with do not pet velcro patches. In the meantime, it's *your* job to stand between your dog and unwanted intrusion. If you can't do that, stay away from stores for a few months. There's no absolute necessity to be there right now, you haven't graduated from *outside* the store yet.

Baby steps for your baby


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> Far to young to tryng to train or socialize in a cart in a very busy store, you've put the cart way before the horse (get it ).
> 
> You can buy collars with do not pet velcro patches. In the meantime, it's *your* job to stand between your dog and unwanted intrusion. If you can't do that, stay away from stores for a few months. There's no absolute necessity to be there right now, you haven't graduated from *outside* the store yet.
> 
> Baby steps for your baby


thank you for the good giggle it was needed I will take your advice


----------



## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

Poking about the net for an inexpensive harness I found this too-good-too-be-true one. Looks like you might have to wait for it to come from China but I doubt you could beat $3.14.









NEW Comfortable Service Dog Harness Pet Training Vest with Reflective Patches for Large Medium Small Dogs From Size XS-XXL | Wish


Buy NEW Comfortable Service Dog Harness Pet Training Vest with Reflective Patches for Large Medium Small Dogs From Size XS-XXL at Wish - Shopping Made Fun




www.wish.com





this is more like Duke's which is very adjustable. And you can get an assortment of stickers for it. They velcro on and off. 








Personalized No Pull Dog Harness


Important: Please fill out the fields above (name and number). MEDIUM DOG HARNESS: Approx Weight: 21-40 lbs. Neck Girth: 16"-20", Chest Girth: 19"-24.5". It pe




www.pawpawify.shop


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Buckelke said:


> Poking about the net for an inexpensive harness I found this too-good-too-be-true one. Looks like you might have to wait for it to come from China but I doubt you could beat $3.14.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thank you so much I will have to get the $3.14 one for the giggles of it and see how it ends up. The one similar to duke’s looks really reasonable, I will measure her and pick one up so she can be comfy. Ive been using a slip as she actually understands the corrections with it but this will be nice for her to wear to deter the hand wandering


----------



## Ozymandiasmv (Oct 3, 2018)

Maybe I missed something buried in the thread, but 8 weeks old, rescue, training as a support animal? None of that makes sense to me. Anyway it seems like you maybe have made some changes in the way you are handling her and around what her job should be. If I missed something and you are willing to clarify please forgive me, and I'm all ears.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Ozymandiasmv said:


> Maybe I missed something buried in the thread, but 8 weeks old, rescue, training as a support animal? None of that makes sense to me. Anyway it seems like you maybe have made some changes in the way you are handling her and around what her job should be. If I missed something and you are willing to clarify please forgive me, and I'm all ears.


hey she’s 11 weeks old and was starting her training as a support animal in terms of staying calm around strangers and noises and things. she’s very receptive and likes training so I thought it would be okay and was advised by a trainer than I know is unreliable now but Ive since been told I should take it easy and will. She’s an angel


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

There is also scams in these dogs. A client of mine bought a Aussie xLab mix for her daughter in college. He was 'specifically bred as service dog' and just needed foundation training as a 9 month old. It was s complete out of control dog, hyper and nervous etc. They paid $3000 for him as a pup. Total scam.


----------



## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Buckelke said:


> And tell the idiots who insist on petting Akira that if they don't stop interfering with her training you will have to leave the store. Bore them to tears explaining how the dog must be trained to ignore everything going on around her and concentrate on her training and duties. Sometimes you just have to be blunt with people.


Tell them she has dog scabies so they really shouldn’t pet her.


----------



## DogsRPeople2 (Feb 16, 2021)

Sunflowers said:


> A rescue?
> No, nononono.
> 
> Service dogs come from a certain breeding stock, and even puppies from those places sometimes wash out.
> ...







__





OPDD Home - Delta Dog







operationdeltadog.org


----------



## DogsRPeople2 (Feb 16, 2021)

HandlingAkira said:


> thank you for the good giggle it was needed I will take your advice


Raspberry Fields makes a lot of vests and patches. And a patch for your leash. They are great quality.




__





raspberryfield.com: Search






www.raspberryfield.com


----------



## DogsRPeople2 (Feb 16, 2021)

This is a leash from Rasberry Fields:


----------



## DogsRPeople2 (Feb 16, 2021)

Leash from rasberry field


----------



## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

When you get a vest with a DO NOT PET sign on it, buy the most obnoxious one. People that are that disrespectful often times forget how to read. It's difficult but try to be more assertive. Assertive doesn't mean yelling and screaming. It helps to think about why you are being assertive in that situation. Think about how your puppy need to be protected from these rude, disgusting WEIRDOS. If you put the mindset of needing to protect your puppy it might be easier since you love her so much. I've definitely had strange people petting my dog without my position and when I was younger it was very very difficult to stand up for myself and my dog.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Hopps said:


> When you get a vest with a DO NOT PET sign on it, buy the most obnoxious one. People that are that disrespectful often times forget how to read. It's difficult but try to be more assertive. Assertive doesn't mean yelling and screaming. It helps to think about why you are being assertive in that situation. Think about how your puppy need to be protected from these rude, disgusting WEIRDOS. If you put the mindset of needing to protect your puppy it might be easier since you love her so much. I've definitely had strange people petting my dog without my position and when I was younger it was very very difficult to stand up for myself and my dog.


this has been one of the more helpful responses thank you for lighting the fire under my butt. Nobody touches my little girl


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Rabidwolfie said:


> A rescue CAN become a service dog, and it's best to begin GENERAL training early, but she's way too young to begin anything serious yet. That includes going into public places not meant for dogs.
> 
> The washout rate is incredibly high, however, so like everyone else, I would be second guessing this trainer. But, benefit of the doubt, it's possible there was a miscommunication or misunderstanding here, and you should sit down for a serious talk with your trainer. Get a detailed timeline and plan for training. Set goals. What will the pup be expected to do and how will she be trained to do it?
> 
> There's a possibility she'll grow up to be perfect at the tasks you want her to perform, but it won't happen immediately and you have to be careful, because too many negative experiences can ruin her chances.


thanks for being an amazing friend and helping me


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Buckelke said:


> Does anyone have a used harness that is stickered and Akira could borrow until she grows out of it? they do expand quite a bit. Or maybe a sweater that you could put a temp label on? We used to write our kids name and a phone number with embroidery paint on a t-shirt for our kids to wear when traveling (boys!) in case they wandered off in an airport. No reason you couldn't take and old t-shirt and write something like 'service dog in training do not pet' on it.
> 
> but yeah, I do not like using a cart that has had a diapered baby or a dog sitting in the seat for my groceries. I put the shopping bags up there. That can't be sanitary. I was reading this editorial the other day about how many problems our society has and it all seems to track back to a lack of empathy. Not sure empathy could fix everything but I think it's a start.
> 
> How can we help ?


you’re really sweet thank you I will get her some patches and make her a harness with the one she has and get her a patch for her winter coat and show you guys once it’s done. Thank you for your empathy it is really meaningful and is helping way more than you could imagine. you’re an amazing friend


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Sunflowers said:


> A rescue?
> No, nononono.
> 
> Service dogs come from a certain breeding stock, and even puppies from those places sometimes wash out.
> ...


whilst I appreciate your efforts to help I don’t think she should be viewed so narrowly just because of where she happened to be from. the fact she is a rescue shouldn’t determine her value or intelligence. She is an amazing girl with a brilliant minds capable of things beyond your imagination and I’m going to do as I was taught by my lovely friends on this forum and advocate for her. She will work hard like any other dog and she has a shot like any other dog. YES I WAS IN THE WRONG. [_removed by moderator_] She is too beautiful for this conversation. Thank you have a blessed day.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

HandlingAkira said:


> She is a rescue but I have a trainer working with her so she can task as she learns and progresses but she doesn’t have a vest yet as she’s so small still. My trainer said she technically doesn’t have to be marked but it stops people from bothering her but for now I can just advocate for her. She was picked out of her litter for how calm and observant she is. She is technically a psychiatric service dog in training but she also has an emotional support certificate. I struggle with an anxiety condition that I’ve had for a while. I know it was wrong on my part to not say service animal in training but I froze up and was overwhelmed truthfully. I know the manager was in the right but I was scared of her getting hit by an idiot with a cart as it was really full today and I couldn’t leave her alone. My main point of frustration was poking her. Multiple people kept poking her after I asked them to please stop she is working and at that point she was freaked out and I was half way into a panic attack over people touching her. My trainer wants her to get use to being around and heeling around crowds of people.
> 
> She’s 11 weeks old and is learning basic obedience and learning to perform commands and tasks around people and distractions while she is still young before she learns larger tasks like spotting anxiety attack symptoms and comforting. I know the manager was right and I was trying to make the trip quick as I didn’t know it was so crowded that day and I didn’t want her getting hit by a cart and causing her to have a negative view of stores. there was a lot of people. I would have left without doing anything after I saw a crowd but I genuinely had to pick up groceries and didn’t feel comfortable leaving her in my car alone so I tried to rush.


You are asking an awful lot from a baby-puppy. I'm sorry, but if you are not confident, then all your socialization is counter-productive. And leaving the dog in a situation where you are becoming terribly upset is going to screw up your puppy. Maybe not yet. But going to another store after that mess? C'mon, it is a puppy. A baby. One place and leave the moment you begin to feel anxious. Then take her home, play with her bond with her and try again tomorrow or the next day. Little tiny baby steps. The dog meets one plastic garbage bag today that does not attack him/her and that's a good day, that's enough. The dog sees two groups of shoppers at a store, without anxiety from you, and out you go, and that's a great trip to the store for your 11 week old pup. 

If you truly need a psychiatric service dog, then you should get an adult that is trained for that purpose. The idea of someone with serious anxiety training a service dog puppy, has the hair sticking up on the back of neck. Can a dog of good temperament become a fear-biter if handled badly, and put in situations and given expectations that are beyond their age/capabilities? I don't know. But that is what I am thinking when I am hearing about someone keeping a young puppy in a situation that is causing distress to the owner. 

With ordinary GSDs, that are going to be pets, we, I try to make like a responsible adult when a child is bleeding badly. I mean, staying calm for the child. Over-riding the desire to run and scream for help because that will make the child so much worse. So we swallow those feelings and show the child how to hold a clean cloth over the wound while we take the next step toward getting the child the medical attention he needs. Same deal. When people come up and do not listen to me with respect to the puppy, I swallow or bury the feelings of anger and use my already scoped out escape route as soon as it is possible without upsetting the puppy. I stay calm for the puppy. I have dug down deep for confidence that is not natural for me, so that my dogs can have perfect trust in me while we are out. 

Another thing you have to avoid. If you are working, and trips to stores or other places of socialization are limited by transportation or work hours, you have to avoid the desire to get the most bang for your buck. Going to 3 or 4 places on a Saturday, does not make up for a week of missed socialization. It is counter-productive. It will overwhelm the puppy. Good socialization happens when we are calm and confident and expose the puppy to some different people or environment. And like all training, we stop before the puppy has had too much. So if all you have is Saturday, than go out on Saturday, and only do as much as you would have if you were to go out each day. Don't try to squeeze the experiences in to the timeframe you have to work with your dog. 

It's funny, a lot of the best trainers, like to take a pup to class and then give the pup a break in the car, or give the dog the next day off. I used to go to classes once a week and not train outside of the class. My dogs were doing BETTER than the people who were working with their pups every day. Why? I think the dogs that are drilled every day either get bored with it and lose the excitement of learning and doing a great job. Whereas the pup that has the break in between classes, is then on task and sharp, they had time to think it through and then nothing is over-done, we move on, we clean up a little what we did last week and we introduce this week's new stuff. The pup hasn't become immune to the "Good Boy," "Yes!" 

Potential service dogs are puppies just like any other 11 week-old puppy. They are ready to start a puppy-class, which is really basic household manners type stuff. They should be happy, energetic, goofy, a little unsure of new commands, and looking for you to know if they did the right thing. Overdoing it at 11 weeks old might make a perfectly good service dog prospect wash out.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

selzer said:


> You are asking an awful lot from a baby-puppy. I'm sorry, but if you are not confident, then all your socialization is counter-productive. And leaving the dog in a situation where you are becoming terribly upset is going to screw up your puppy. Maybe not yet. But going to another store after that mess? C'mon, it is a puppy. A baby. One place and leave the moment you begin to feel anxious. Then take her home, play with her bond with her and try again tomorrow or the next day. Little tiny baby steps. The dog meets one plastic garbage bag today that does not attack him/her and that's a good day, that's enough. The dog sees two groups of shoppers at a store, without anxiety from you, and out you go, and that's a great trip to the store for your 11 week old pup.
> 
> If you truly need a psychiatric service dog, then you should get an adult that is trained for that purpose. The idea of someone with serious anxiety training a service dog puppy, has the hair sticking up on the back of neck. Can a dog of good temperament become a fear-biter if handled badly, and put in situations and given expectations that are beyond their age/capabilities? I don't know. But that is what I am thinking when I am hearing about someone keeping a young puppy in a situation that is causing distress to the owner.
> 
> ...


thank you for offering a new perspective. I’m not insecure with Kira to clarify I hate people poking her and ignoring me and didn’t feel comfortable leaving her in the car so I did the unthinkable and told her “sit” and she did in the cart. Why the cart? she is small and people are clumsy I didn’t want to risk her paws or beautiful tail being smashed. and I tried to be quick. Yes I was in the wrong I know that but I did what I did that’s over now. she actually did amazing in sit and ignored everyone till they started poking her face without consent and that made her riled up because she was working and petting=break for Kira her commands offer her some comfort and security she knows what to do rather than react. I then made a B line for the check out kiosk. On my way like the wizard of oz met a few other people who were ignoring me. That pissed me off a lot because in my heart she is my child and people were violating her. someone upset her so she yelled and demanded me to get her out and I did. I wrote this thread in my car overcoming the anger and controlling myself before I drove. Yes I pushed her. Did she handle it amazingly before they poked her in the face with their nasty little fingers without my consent, YES. so this isn’t about Kiras ability because she’s amazing for a puppy her age. it’s about people not having any manners and weird weird. I didn’t go to another store by the way. That was a matter of speaking sorry for the confusion. I let her home to which she ate a snack stretched played with our cat and took a nap. I’m not perfect but I’m also not out of my mind. Hope this doesn’t come off standoffish I’m saying it in the nicest of ways.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

HandlingAkira said:


> whilst I appreciate your efforts to help I don’t think she should be viewed so narrowly just because of where she happened to be from. the fact she is a rescue shouldn’t determine her value or intelligence. She is an amazing girl with a brilliant minds capable of things beyond your imagination and I’m going to do as I was taught by my lovely friends on this forum and advocate for her. She will work hard like any other dog and she has a shot like any other dog. YES I WAS IN THE WRONG. [_removed by moderator_] She is too beautiful for this conversation. Thank you have a blessed day.


Your quote is the end of my willingness to help you. You continue doing what you are doing.
Edit: this response is based on the now- removed content from the moderators.


----------



## DogsRPeople2 (Feb 16, 2021)

HandlingAkira said:


> thank you for offering a new perspective. I’m not insecure with Kira to clarify I hate people poking her and ignoring me and didn’t feel comfortable leaving her in the car so I did the unthinkable and told her “sit” and she did in the cart. Why the cart? she is small and people are clumsy I didn’t want to risk her paws or beautiful tail being smashed. and I tried to be quick. Yes I was in the wrong I know that but I did what I did that’s over now. she actually did amazing in sit and ignored everyone till they started poking her face without consent and that made her riled up because she was working and petting=break for Kira her commands offer her some comfort and security she knows what to do rather than react. I then made a B line for the check out kiosk. On my way like the wizard of oz met a few other people who were ignoring me. That pissed me off a lot because in my heart she is my child and people were violating her. someone upset her so she yelled and demanded me to get her out and I did. I wrote this thread in my car overcoming the anger and controlling myself before I drove. Yes I pushed her. Did she handle it amazingly before they poked her in the face with their nasty little fingers without my consent, YES. so this isn’t about Kiras ability because she’s amazing for a puppy her age. it’s about people not having any manners and weird weird. I didn’t go to another store by the way. That was a matter of speaking sorry for the confusion. I let her home to which she ate a snack stretched played with our cat and took a nap. I’m not perfect but I’m also not out of my mind. Hope this doesn’t come off standoffish I’m saying it in the nicest of ways.


Tractor Supply and Lowe’s home improvement stores allow dogs. Might be a great place to train her for the future. 👍🏻 Just put a do not pet leash on her and maybe a do not pet patch in bright red??? Whatever stands out. Then learn to dismiss people. Immediately tell them she’s in training and don’t pet. Good luck.


----------



## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I have family that used an ESA for awihle. The dog did well and performed like he should. But the dog attracted a lot of attention. The poor owner spend much more time having to deal with strangers who simply wanted to talk, than she ever would if she went out alone. She no longer brings her dog out shopping and such and her fur buddy is waiting at home where he can help her relax.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

car2ner said:


> I have family that used an ESA for awihle. The dog did well and performed like he should. But the dog attracted a lot of attention. The poor owner spend much more time having to deal with strangers who simply wanted to talk, than she ever would if she went out alone. She no longer brings her dog out shopping and such and her fur buddy is home waiting at home where he can help her relax.


I completely understand it can be really scary. I was hoping she would do good in the event I have to have an in person office job or what not in the future. It would be years down the line but it would help me tremendously. I work at home now so I have the luxury of being with her 24/7 and am blessed to be able to take it slow


----------



## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

HandlingAkira said:


> She’s in training as a psychiatric service animal but is currently considered an emotional support animal *because I don’t have the certificate for her as a psa yet* I think it will be here in the coming weeks but it makes me so freaked out when people poke her. In Cali we are slowly doing away with esa stuff as the department says.


Something nobody has mentioned yet….
What type of “certificate” are you getting? I’m surprised your trainer hasn’t spoken to you about registering a service dog. That is, the fact that you don’t register a service dog. In the United States, there is no registration program or certificate you can get. Anything you find online is a scam. Are you perhaps talking about a doctor’s letter? That is the only thing you need. I recommend you do more research on what constitutes a service animal vs. ESA, the training involved, and all the laws, especially in your specific state. Make sure you know your rights and what two questions businesses are allowed to ask.

Did your trainer tell you that it was okay to take such a young puppy into a store that isn’t pet friendly? At this age she is far too young to be going into non-pet friendly stores. Even though I legally have the right to take a SDiT into non-pet friendly stores in Colorado, I never take a young puppy into them. While accidents do happen (and I never want one to happen!), I do everything in my power to prevent an accident from happening in a store that doesn’t allow pets. That means my SDiT puppies do not go into normal stores until they are fully house trained, usually after four months old. Also, at such a young age, I only take my in-training dogs into stores for practice, not to run actual errands. That way I can leave as soon as necessary.


----------



## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Carmen and I have had conversations about Psychiatric dogs. She emphasized just how important it is to have a dog that can handle the emotional stress of the owner. It is a HUGE ask for any dog to take on. If I recall correctly, the pressure put in a Psychiatric dog is much more than that of a Police K9. The emotions that dog must handle 24/7 is incredible. So I guess my point is, your 11 week old puppy should not be burdened with that, the dog will be ruined. I second looking for a mature dog through a respected organization that has been raised and trained properly for the tasks you require.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Pytheis said:


> Something nobody has mentioned yet….
> What type of “certificate” are you getting? I’m surprised your trainer hasn’t spoken to you about registering a service dog. That is, the fact that you don’t register a service dog. In the United States, there is no registration program or certificate you can get. Anything you find online is a scam. Are you perhaps talking about a doctor’s letter? That is the only thing you need. I recommend you do more research on what constitutes a service animal vs. ESA, the training involved, and all the laws, especially in your specific state. Make sure you know your rights and what two questions businesses are allowed to ask.
> 
> Did your trainer tell you that it was okay to take such a young puppy into a store that isn’t pet friendly? At this age she is far too young to be going into non-pet friendly stores. Even though I legally have the right to take a SDiT into non-pet friendly stores in Colorado, I never take a young puppy into them. While accidents do happen (and I never want one to happen!), I do everything in my power to prevent an accident from happening in a store that doesn’t allow pets. That means my SDiT puppies do not go into normal stores until they are fully house trained, usually after four months old. Also, at such a young age, I only take my in-training dogs into stores for practice, not to run actual errands. That way I can leave as soon as necessary.


Hi so she is actually fully house trained I know it seems very unlikely but she picked it up quick and has free roam of our home 0 issues and she is trained to scratch our front door when she needs to potty or ask us and we let her out. In public she holds it if in a store and asks to go potty on the grass outside before or after. We have a doctors letter I met with a health care professional and discussed it and they felt it would benefit me. the certificate is the new doctors letter deeming my need for a PSA rather than an ESA as she wrote Emotional support animal and i would rather have it redone for kira. I'm also getting her a little Id to help identify her when we go out in public and in case of emergencys we arent seperated as im very concerned about that and going to a hospital without her. I made a genuine error on my part with her and am going to look for a new trainer once she completes her formal basic obedience with my main trainer that doesn't do psa training. I initially choose my trainer because she said she had experience with tactical distraction tasking. I know people can ask me if she's needed because of a disability and what task she is trained to perform. 
I wrote this thread as a vent thread and people have taken to it more as a place to nip and chew. I choose the wrong trainer and have discussed with her concerns since yesterday and am no longer meeting with her. I do appreciate your response and thank you for helping me clear it up every person who takes the time to ask makes it a lot easier.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Saphire said:


> Carmen and I have had conversations about Psychiatric dogs. She emphasized just how important it is to have a dog that can handle the emotional stress of the owner. It is a HUGE ask for any dog to take on. If I recall correctly, the pressure put in a Psychiatric dog is much more than that of a Police K9. The emotions that dog must handle 24/7 is incredible. So I guess my point is, your 11 week old puppy should not be burdened with that, the dog will be ruined. I second looking for a mature dog through a respected organization that has been raised and trained properly for the tasks you require.


I will take this into account thank you


----------



## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

As a first time GSD owner with anxiety, I can say raising this puppy has been one of the most anxiety provoking experiences of my life. I have not handled it well but I persevere because I love the dog, I enjoy the structure he brings into my life, and we make progress so it get’s easier. But to try to train a psychiatric service GSD while struggling with the symptoms the dog is supposed to help alleviate - I’m not sure how realistic that is. I also have a somewhat insecure dog so in crowds he gets anxious and reactive. It’s really forced me to regulate my emotions more because he’s just a puppy - I’m there to provide emotional stability for him, not the other way around.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

You are asking a lot of an 11 week old puppy. You need to chill. Beyond sit, the beginnings of a recall, foundation for leash work, the only stuff I teach is crate/house training and the basic house rules. The foundation you build your house on dictates how well it will stand up. There is ample time for training in a dogs life and very little time for puppy fun.
The chances of an 11 week old dog chosen by an amateur NOT washing out of any service training is incredibly small. 
You need to enjoy your pup and work on being a good owner for her.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Sonny1984 said:


> As a first time GSD owner with anxiety, I can say raising this puppy has been one of the most anxiety provoking experiences of my life. I have not handled it well but I persevere because I love the dog, I enjoy the structure he brings into my life, and we make progress so it get’s easier. But to try to train a psychiatric service GSD while struggling with the symptoms the dog is supposed to help alleviate - I’m not sure how realistic that is. I also have a somewhat insecure dog so in crowds he gets anxious and reactive. It’s really forced me to regulate my emotions more because he’s just a puppy - I’m there to provide emotional stability for him, not the other way around.


I’m really sorry you experience has been that way with your pup and I wish you the best on your journey with him. Kira has a lot of confidence around people and she has helped me more than I could have imagined that’s why I started thinking about her being an Esa so early. she gets me out of bed in the morning something I struggled with and keeps me going because I know she depends on me and I do it with a smile on my face and with laughter that made my husband say "wow Kira really changed you”. She has me stepping out of my comfort zone and growing after years of being stagnant. The responsibility I have with Kira soothes my anxiety because I know she needs me to stay strong and learn what she needs from me. She gives me a hope that I had never gotten from anything before. She is my true friend and hears me. She helps me learn through the eyes of something so full of love and patience. So whilst for some it may spark their anxiety. Kira keeps me strong and grounded. My love for Kira makes my anxiety something that takes a backseat. It’s hard to show these things through words on a screen. I wish you could feel it


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Sabis mom said:


> You are asking a lot of an 11 week old puppy. You need to chill. Beyond sit, the beginnings of a recall, foundation for leash work, the only stuff I teach is crate/house training and the basic house rules. The foundation you build your house on dictates how well it will stand up. There is ample time for training in a dogs life and very little time for puppy fun.
> The chances of an 11 week old dog chosen by an amateur NOT washing out of any service training is incredibly small.
> You need to enjoy your pup and work on being a good owner for her.


I'm sorry for the miscommunication but I'm not having Kira continue her psa training for a long time. I've learned from the forum. Please read through the thread if you have any more concerns about it 💜 I feel like I've answered all questions in other responses


----------



## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

HandlingAkira said:


> I’m really sorry you experience has been that way with your pup and I wish you the best on your journey with him. Kira has a lot of confidence around people and she has helped me more than I could have imagined that’s why I started thinking about her being an Esa so early. she gets me out of bed in the morning something I struggled with and keeps me going because I know she depends on me and I do it with a smile on my face and with laughter that made my husband say "wow Kira really changed you”. She has me stepping out of my comfort zone and growing after years of being stagnant. The responsibility I have with Kira soothes my anxiety because I know she needs me to stay strong and learn what she needs from me. She gives me a hope that I had never gotten from anything before. She is my true friend and hears me. She helps me learn through the eyes of something so full of love and patience. So whilst for some it may spark their anxiety. Kira keeps me strong and grounded. My love for Kira makes my anxiety something that takes a backseat. It’s hard to show these things through words on a screen. I wish you could feel it


I feel you. I am obsessed with puppies and romanticize them to no end my self. They are dreamy, adorable things. But in few months that little pup could be a 60 lb dog lunging and barking at grandma and her little poodle. Depending on the genes some GSDs will be easier to work with than others. But no matter what, these dogs aren’t creampuffs and it’s no easy job. You’ve already seen it - it’s chaos to just bring a little one into Trader Joes, let alone anywhere else in the world people congregate, and it doesn’t necessarily get easier as they get older. If a break from anxiety is what you consistently expect to get from the dog, I think you’ll have an awakening at some point that a GSD puppy is not going to provide that, which may or may not be a bad thing for you. Anyways it sounds like this dog has sparked something in you and this is amazing, I hope keep rolling with it and take it as far as you can


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

HandlingAkira said:


> Hi so she is actually fully house trained I know it seems very unlikely but she picked it up quick and has free roam of our home 0 issues and she is trained to scratch our front door when she needs to potty or ask us and we let her out. In public she holds it if in a store and asks to go potty on the grass outside before or after.


This and other similar comments were my point. Formal obedience and tons of training can wait. Have fun with your dog!


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Sonny1984 said:


> I feel you. I am obsessed with puppies and romanticize them to no end my self. They are dreamy, adorable things. But in few months that little pup could be a 60 lb dog lunging and barking at grandma and her little poodle. Depending on the genes some GSDs will be easier to work with than others. But no matter what, these dogs aren’t creampuffs and it’s no easy job. You’ve already seen it - it’s chaos to just bring a little one into Trader Joes, let alone anywhere else in the world people congregate, and it doesn’t necessarily get easier as they get older. If a break from anxiety is what you consistently expect to get from the dog, I think you’ll have an awakening at some point that a GSD puppy is not going to provide that, which may or may not be a bad thing for you. Anyways it sounds like this dog has sparked something in you and this is amazing, I hope keep rolling with it and take it as far as you can


thank you for being so nice! I really appreciate it. She will go to training for her obedience recall etc once she gets a little older and is fully vaxed. I love her regardless of what ends up happening and will stay on top of her training so she can have a good foundation for life in general less behavioral issues = less things to be anxious about. I know this thread makes me seem irresponsible to a degree but I would never have a gsd if I wasn’t sure I could give her the best life I could offer and all the training she needs to be successful and confident in public (not working). I didn’t get her to be a support system but a companion and she’s doing a great job being around. Speaking of which she did something so amazing today we were getting mail together this morning and my neighbor has 2 massive and I MEAN MASSIVE labs I don’t know what the lady feeds then but they were at least 130 anyways they were barking their heads off at Kira and she was off leash ( I have a slip so I was ready to put it on if we needed it but I didn’t want to make a scene if she could handle it. She stared and kept walking. I gave her endless praise. She is learning “leave it” and is doing brilliant.


----------



## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I remember when I thought Apex was sweet.















I was so wrong lol


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

Apex1 said:


> I remember when I thought Apex was sweet.
> View attachment 584861
> View attachment 584862
> 
> ...


hahahah I can’t wait till to see what she ends up like, Apex has a pretty smile


----------



## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

You should train her 5 mins a day at most. Maybe even twice a day when she's like 3 or 4 months. My 5 month old is doing well. At the start I was being a bit hard on her, but I've toned it down dramatically cause I realized I was going a bit too fast. Plus I don't expect my 5 month old to be anywhere near the level of a 3 or 7 year old dog. That'll come with time. Plus no dog is perfect there will be mistakes. If I wanted perfection I would have gotten those new robot dogs they are coming out with. No thanks lol. Plus for now she might seem potty trained, but in the first year she could easily have a few accidents and might not scratch at the door or does it to play you so you take her out and she goofs around lol.

Also in the next few weeks if she hasn't developed it yet she'll probably find her bark and start barking at everything and then start barking at people & dogs along with lunging. Hopefully your arm can handle it. I'd consider stop off leashing her. What if she bolts & gets hit by a car cause something scared her? I'm slowly learning to turn the other way during walks to redirect her attention and catch it before she reacts. I'm probably going to give it 3 more weeks then decide about the prong. It's not that I can't handle her on a leash, but I don't really wanna strain her neck. At least with the prong doing a proper correction can change walking for the better. Trying to stand still with a 70lbs dog trying to get to another dog isn't an easy task. Mines about 40lbs I think, but it can strain your arm especially if you live in a busy area.

You mentioned at 11 weeks her recall is really good. But I doubt it's good with impulse or something reactive. Plus give it time and she probably won't come back or at times try to make it into a game where she wants you to chase her. I did that 3 times with mine, but luckily lured her back with something. I won't take that chance again until I know she's at a certain level. Plus I'm fine if that takes 2 years to accomplish with something like an e-collar.

And not to sound harsh, but she has no idea what "leave it" is at this stage. She might know commands in some areas where you're training her, but keep taking her to new areas and she at times won't listen. All this takes time and daily training throughout her life.


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

AE316 said:


> You should train her 5 mins a day at most. Maybe even twice a day when she's like 3 or 4 months. My 5 month old is doing well. At the start I was being a bit hard on her, but I've toned it down dramatically cause I realized I was going a bit too fast. Plus I don't expect my 5 month old to be anywhere near the level of a 3 or 7 year old dog. That'll come with time. Plus no dog is perfect there will be mistakes. If I wanted perfection I would have gotten those new robot dogs they are coming out with. No thanks lol. Plus for now she might seem potty trained, but in the first year she could easily have a few accidents and might not scratch at the door or does it to play you so you take her out and she goofs around lol.
> 
> Also in the next few weeks if she hasn't developed it yet she'll probably find her bark and start barking at everything and then start barking at people & dogs along with lunging. Hopefully your arm can handle it. I'd consider stop off leashing her. What if she bolts & gets hit by a car cause something scared her? I'm slowly learning to turn the other way during walks to redirect her attention and catch it before she reacts. I'm probably going to give it 3 more weeks then decide about the prong. It's not that I can't handle her on a leash, but I don't really wanna strain her neck. At least with the prong doing a proper correction can change walking for the better. Trying to stand still with a 70lbs dog trying to get to another dog isn't an easy task. Mines about 40lbs I think, but it can strain your arm especially if you live in a busy area.
> 
> ...


Oh for sure her commands are by no means sound! She’s a puppy I expect mistakes I’m considering a herm springer when she gets to about 6 months in conjunction with her trainer. Her bark is very real so far. It’s immensely loud for such a small dog. She doesn’t bark at everything yet but she’s beginning to learn cats that aren’t the ones she lives with aren’t her friend. She barked at one just now as we were doing our evening walk to my friends house. She lunges now but I have a harness with a handle and I grab it rather than the slip so her neck isn’t damaged. The harness makes her lunge more to be quite frank in the way agitation training does. she’s crying at the front door right now to go potty after I just let her out. the its a game indication is going directly for the shoes by the door. I lead her to her designated potty area then lead her in to the house if it’s later in the day like now. don’t like her being outside when everyones coming home from work. too many cars.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Is your yard fenced? 
Good time to be outside when there are lots of cars coming home so she can learn to ignore them.
An 11 week old pup shouldn't be outside alone in the yard (even fenced) at all though


----------



## HandlingAkira (10 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> Is your yard fenced?
> Good time to be outside when there are lots of cars coming home so she can learn to ignore them.
> An 11 week old pup shouldn't be outside alone in the yard (even fenced) at all though


It’s fenced but my older dogs have free access through their room so it’s a little much for her now I think. Also she can’t see cars from our back yard as we have wooden and wall fencing. we live in a cul-du-sac so people coming home from work drive like a bat outta ****. Kira has access to the front yard at her disposal but I sit outside with her and she doesn’t wander from me. I get nervous letting her interact with our other dogs too much as they are fairly large dogs. I let them have leashed interactions in a neutral space but that’s in and its not too often. she greets them through our fence sometimes but I try to discourage it as you never know if the other dogs are feeling snappy at the random paw under the fence or guardy


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You don’t sound irresponsible, just stressed and anxious. You have good advice here. Enjoy your puppy.


----------



## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

if your asking them politely once and they dont listen then YELL at them, I said step away from the dog, I actually did pepper sprayed a person once because they wouldn't back off !!! ps a puppy can and will jump out of a cart(or get a puppy cart for her while she is small=wish more people would do that with their small dogs at flea markets so the dogs dont get kicked/stepped on and it iS scary for the small dogs down there). did see the cutest little husky puppy being carried around on a young lady's back in a back pack once-it was adorable.


----------

