# Probiotic recommendation?



## Craig Caughlin (Oct 17, 2007)

Hi folks,
I went to my vet last night and he said that feeding your dog yogurt isn't as beneficial as most people think.

He agrees that the "natural" yogurts do have live cultures, but he said studies show that most of those cultures are destroyed long before they have a chance to reach a dogs' intestinal tract due to the highly acidic chemistry of a dogs stomach.

He gave me a sample of Purina FortiFlora (http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.co...aspx?prod=244&DCMP=ILC-PVD-FF&HQS=ProductHPFF), but I think Purina makes questionable products.

I don't mind buying a probiotic for "Lex". Does anyone have a recommendation???

Thank you,
Craig


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## Strongheart (May 2, 2007)

Calendula. Just put the raw bulk herbs in his food (it is just dried marigold flower heads). A wonderful natural probiotic that balances the gut flora better than anything else. Also, pure 100% pumpkin.

My folks use Fortiflora for their little old Westie but he never regulated until I had them start him on Nupro Gold which has enzymes and other probiotic stuff in it - it is just wonderful stuff.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Craig, in the health forum there is an on going post about Probioitics and you can get some more suggestions. 

I use a product for humans on two of my dogs, the other two seem to be doing fine without it.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530141&page=1#Post530141

Val


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

My vet strongly recommends probiotics, esp when the dog is on antibiotics, but warns that the amount of live cultures has to be sufficient and that (and this is where many dog owners may drop the ball) the probiotics need to be refrigerated. 

Vets can't seem to agree on much these days, eh?

Also, I personally think a lot of it has to do with quality. I never had any success with FortiFlora, but good quality (human grade) acidophillus capsules have made a big and noticeable impact on my GSD. Acidophillus is the main bacteria in yogurt, but in capsule form, far more concentrated.

Some of the live bacteria will be killed off, but not all. Ask your vet if dogs can get sick from bacteria from food. If one bacteria is always killed, and the other should be too. My experience is that most are, but not always -- going both ways.









Yep, my GSD got GI upset last week from that duck wing from breakfast that he stashed under under a bush all day, on a hot day -- I hadn't realized til I heard the crunching that night -- and I'm sure the bacteria were in the millions. There is no doubt in my mind that at least a few bacteria survived the trip through the stomach acid into the intestines. Based on what I saw on the other end, I'm sure of it.









I've had GREAT success with probiotics.


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## Eve-Lynn (Apr 28, 2008)

3K9Mom which brand of acidophillus do you use? How many mg?


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

I switched our family (dogs and people) from yogurt to kefir a few months ago. 

It's basically like yogurt, thinner in consistency (drinkable), but contains lots more probiotic cultures, both in terms of quantity and variety than yogurt. 

http://www.lifeway.net/

This is the brand stores here carry. The dogs get plain. I like the flavored.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Eve-Lynn, 
This is what I usually use, and I really like it.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.asp...y=1&topnav=&s=1

I use TruNature supplements for my dogs a lot (cranberry, acidophilus, etc) and I've found that I get consistently good results.


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## Eve-Lynn (Apr 28, 2008)

Thanks I will check Costco this weekend.


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## shets114 (Dec 31, 2006)

Wouldn't a good quality food with probiotics be sufficient enough?


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## Eve-Lynn (Apr 28, 2008)

For me personally we are starting to feed a BARF/RAW diet so there won't be any in the food already.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Commercial food with probiotics? Ok, I know it's sold.

But live cultures living in a kibble or canned food? Baking and cooking (not to mention heat in storage & transport) for kibbles. Heat for canning. In actuality, I'm having a hard time with the concept though. 


There's this commentary on two common probiotic ingredients in dog food:

_
dried bacillus licheniformis fermentation extract (3 stars) found in 3% of pet food products analyzed
Gimmicky probiotic to aid digestion, not enough to help and can not stand up to heat processing.

dried bacillus subtilis fermentation extract (3 stars) found in 3% of pet food products analyzed
Gimmicky probiotic to aid digestion, not enough to help and can not stand up to heat processing _

http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_pet_food_ingredients_3.html


And there's also this: 

_Any other items are present in much smaller amounts to add flavor, function as preservatives, help with the manufacturing process or provide dietary benefits (e.g. probiotics, vitamins and minerals)....It is important to understand that supplements like glucosamine, chondroitin and probiotics are generally not included in large enough doses to actually provide a therapeutic effect for particular health conditions in the daily feeding amount. Their presence may reduce the amount you have to include of a separate supplement, but it is not a good idea to choose a food based on added supplements. A different food combined with a proper dosage of a specific stand-alone supplement product is likely to bring better results _
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts


Now, I feed a kibble (to my senior dog who can't eat home cooked diet) that claims to include probiotics and prebiotics (food for the probiotics). I feed the food because I think it's the best food for her. The other stuff isn't relevant. Maybe the millions of good bacteria from my acidophilus capsules do feed on the prebiotic inulin that's in the food. But I am not counting on the probiotic ingredients in the kibble. 

And for my GSD that tends toward SIBO, I don't feed ANY food that has prebiotics. The general thinking is that the only the good guys eat inulin, but I'm not 100% convinced. That's all I need, to be giving the bad bacteria a free lunch as well. 

That always ends up being the problem I have with commericial foods. One size doesn't fit all for my GSD. 

At best, probiotics in dog food are likely dead, or at the very least, too few to be useful. Owners of dogs with SIBO need to do their own research about prebiotics and decide whether it's something they want to be concerned about.










That's why I like a home made/raw diet with individual supplements that I choose for my younger kids.


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## Eve-Lynn (Apr 28, 2008)

3K9Mom do you think I can feed Link this? 

Natural Factors
Acidophilus&Bifidus

10 Billion Active Cells

L rhamnosus 80% 8,00 milliards
L acidophilus 10% 1,00 milliard
B bifidum 10% 1,00 milliard

These micro-organisms are in a base of lactose, whey, powdered goat milk, vegetable grade magnesium stearate (lubricant), pectin and ascorbic acid in a gelatin capsule(gelatin, purified water).

I have these in the fridge for us and was wondering if I can use them? It is powdered so I can open and put on his food.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Eve-Lynn, I don't know really much about L rhamnosus (and it appears in a huge quantity in your probiotic). When I looked around, it's often included in as a lesser ingredient in small amounts in pet probiotics.

But I put faith in this: (USA) National Institutes of Health indicate that it's safe, but they don't say at what "dosage." 

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1610324

This article (abstract) suggests that Lactobacillus rhamnosus is better than others. 

Selected probiotic lactic acid bacteria have several documented health effects. For many of these health effects, adhesion to the intestinal mucosa is of primary importance. In the current study, the adhesive ability to canine small intestinal mucus of four lactic acid bacteria intended for human use, two for animal use and two strains isolated from dogs was assessed. The strains for human use were specifically chosen because they have documented health effects and have been proven to be safe. *One strain for human use, Lactobacillus rhamnosus (ATCC 53103), was found to adhere significantly better than all other strains. Pretreatment of the strains with canine jejunal chyme, to simulate digestion, dramatically reduced the adhesion of all strains tested. However, three of the strains intended for human use were still adhering better than the strains from animal origin. * The results show that probiotic strains from human origin and intended for human use also adhere to canine intestinal mucus. This warrants further investigation of these strains for use in dogs.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119187292/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0


So...where does that leave us? L rhamnosus may simply be more expensive and that's why pet probiotics producers are using less of it? Is it as safe as acidophilus (that is used often and apparently, by everyone, everywhere?) It would appear so, but I simply don't konw. I am neither a biologist, physiologist nor nutritionist. The journal article does support the idea that human grade probiotics do work and do so safely. 

Check out the thread Val listed above. Others may be using this particular probiotic more than I do and have more input. 

Craig, take a look at the article too. Give a copy to your vet: "In conclusion, strains [Lactic Acid Bacterium --what we're calling probiotics] LAB8 to LAB12 have potential as probiotic strains for dogs as they survive in and dominate the jejunal LAB microbiota during feeding and have the ability to modify the intestinal microbiota." Also, have him look at the Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition article listed above.









It may simply be that probiotics intended for dogs DON'T work. But that doesn't mean that all probiotics don't work. Just that stuff intended for animals is, well, junk. 

(And a waste of dog owners' hard-earned money







)


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## NatB (Oct 3, 2014)

Craig Caughlin said:


> Hi folks,
> I went to my vet last night and he said that feeding your dog yogurt isn't as beneficial as most people think.
> 
> He agrees that the "natural" yogurts do have live cultures, but he said studies show that most of those cultures are destroyed long before they have a chance to reach a dogs' intestinal tract due to the highly acidic chemistry of a dogs stomach.
> ...


My vet said the same thing: if I wanted my dog to have more probiotics in his diet supplements were the way to go.
I tried a couple of different brands, because I heard that there were a of bad ones out there, but my favorite (and my dogs favorite!) was NOVAnimal, which my dog is still taking in small doses everyday. 
Here's their website: Pet Supplements | NOVAnimal Probiotics - USA


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

This has been recommended to me and comparing Patton's pancreatic levels and the supplemental facts of this product, it seems like the perfect probiotic.

DIGI-PRO? by K9 ENZYMES

eta; and then I notice this thread is 4 years old...


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## shantinath1000 (Mar 18, 2014)

Green tripe!- raw, and loaded with good bacteria. When Myah was on antibiotics she got that daily and had no GI issues. She still gets some every few days.


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