# Our poor sweet Gretchen



## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

We got our sweet Gretchen as a rescue when she was 7mos old. She was a project...hated my husband....do I see a pattern here! She's now 11 1/2 and has had severe arthritis, bone spurs and DM for about the last 3 years. She's been dragging her back feet and becoming more and more unstable. Three years of good food, supplements galore etc has slowed the progress. But, she went down completely in her back end today.

My vet took us right in and took x-rays and did a thorough check up on her. She has such severe arthritis in her spine that the x-ray doesn't even look like a spine...it's just a mess. Some bone spurs have moved around and she has a prolapsed (wrong word?) disc. She is not a surgery candidate and cannot do the cart because she is so weak in her front legs too. We finally had to give in and go the route of steroids and pain killers to try and make her comfortable and we'll see if she improves at all in the next few days. The look on her face is just devastating. She knows that something terrible is wrong. We're keeping her comfortable and using a towel sling to help her get around to pee. It's hard for her since she has so little strength in her front legs. She is Daddy's Little Girl and now just loves my husband. They are inseparable. This part of loving your dogs is so hard.


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## fourdogsrule (May 10, 2007)

I am so sorry Gretchen and your family is going through this, but we all know you will do what is best for her and take care of her in the best way possible. Gretchen knows that she is loved and happy you made her part of your family over 11 yrs ago.
Please keep us posted.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Gretchen









My thoughts and prayers are with you and Gretchen. Having seniors is such a mixture of emotions. It's a blessing, knowing how precious their lives are to us and how fortunate we are to be able to share our lives with them. It's a celebration to be able to spend such wonderful times together over the years. Yet, it's also heartbreaking knowing that their time with us is never long enough.

Give Gretchen some hugs from the Hooligans and me!!!


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I can't read the post my friend,,,I tried and I feel your pain...I am so very very sorry.... 
Many many hugs for you and Gretchen


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I am very sorry to hear about Gretchen. 

I had a friend with a gsd with DM named Jake. He outlived my Massie by 6 months. I used to go visit him every day because I missed the company of an old dog. I watched him going downhill and it was really, really hard watching him lose control of his back end. 

Hugs to you, your husband, your Gretchen and the rest of your pack.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

so sorry to hear this. Many thoughts and prayers to you, your family and sweet Gretchen. She is a loved girl
Take care


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Oh Gretchen.









Snuggle up with your "project" (LOL, they always make the best dogs, don't they?) and eat some even better food tonight. Not the healthy stuff. The really yummy stuff.









Hoping that the steroids and pain pills do their magic. Your family is in my thoughts. Please keep us posted.


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks for all your kind words and good thoughts.

Here are some pictures of her....and her favorite thing...a stick to retrieve in the water!

AT THE LAKE:









IN FLORIDA, ON THE BEACH:


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## ToFree24 (Jan 2, 2007)

Camp Pappy, my heart is sitting in my throat reading your every word about your dear sweet Gretchen. What great photos of your girl, or should I say "Daddys Little Girl" - how sweet









My heart goes out to you & a big <<<HUG>>> to Gretchen and your family. Hope she is feeling better and sending love to her.


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## caview (Jun 30, 2008)

I am so very sorry... 

Your husband must be devastated...

I do pray her sufferings can be minimized...

God bless you all!

Tanya


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## susanwrites (Jul 31, 2008)

Oh I am so sorry to hear about Gretchen suffering so - and you and your husband too. Love the picture of her in Florida.

Loving is so wonderful but so hard too.


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## kathyb (May 16, 2007)

I am so sorry to hear about Gretchen. My Yogi had DM also and I know the pain that you are feeling. You gave her a wonderful life for all these years.


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

We really did save her and she's had a WONDERFUL life. She was well on her way to being an aggressive GSD even when we got her at 7 mos. But with lots of socialization she's become just a great dog. She's never been a pushover!

My husband's son has two big male GSDs (Hooch and Duce). When they would come up and visit....as soon as they got out of the truck....Gretchen (at 70lbs) would pin them both to the ground and let them know who's boss! And yet she just LOVES "the boys". She is quite a charachter. Her best sport is playing with a deflated basketball. She wants you to kick it....stands right in front of you and watches your EYES! If was almost impossible to kick it past her...she just loved that game and has her canines worn down to nubs!

She hasn't played ball for many months now. Today was the first day EVER that she didn't go with daddy in the truck. He asked her and she just looked and layed down in the grass. How sad is that? I know hubby is crying as he drives away. She's walking a little today...unsteady...but up! She was up a lot last night..."talking"....wet her bed. I cleaned her up and layed with her a while. She loves being outside....so that's where she is now...with her bed and her water! 

Thanks so much for listening.....it really helps to talk about what a great girl she is and how much we love her.


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

It's heart-wrenching to read about the evening of a dog's life-but you have to understand how much warmth and joy comes through in your description of Gretchen and her family.

She's a lucky dog.

Mary Jane


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Ah, poor girl. It is so hard to watch them like this. My Massie (my first and heart dog) was so spunky. Even on the last day of her life she squeaked on a toy. She really couldn't move but she wanted to show us that her spirit was still there. 

Sigh...my heart goes out to you.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Awww, I am sorry. BUT, with whatever you have left up your sleeve it sounds like Gretchen will give it her all, just like you have for her. Please take care.


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## maggs30 (Aug 5, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear about poor Gretchen. My first dog when I moved away from home was an ex-police Shepherd named Trooper. He was two and had been hit by two cars and shot in the hind quarters with buck shot. He lived to just before his eleventh birthday when I could not bear to watch him suffer anymore. He was never diagnosed with anything but arthritis, but I know in my heart that he had more going on that the vet didn't take time to diagnose. 
I cry thinking about the pain they go through and we can only help them so little. 
(((hugs))) to Gretchen and the family.


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## kathyb (May 16, 2007)

Thinking about you and Gretchen.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Sorry to hear about this. Sending positive thought your way.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Oh I should not have come in the senior forum. 

This is just heart breaking and I am so sorry. Praying she improves enough to go with daddy for a little while yet.

My Max is a senior and soon to be facing this with him too. He cannot walk more than a block on concrete but still does okay on grass.


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

She's walking a little today....still very unsteady....and doesn't really want to walk. I sewed a small lightweight bath towel together at the ends and just leave it on her....around her middle. She doesn't mind and I can use it to help her up and support her. Her left rear leg is the weakest and it is carrying all the weight since it's her right rear she hurt and only uses a little. I had to up the dosage of her Proin (urinary incontenance) since that is now much worse and she leaks all the time even tho I get her up to pee regularly. Vet says meds may do that. She's still a sweetie and loves her ears rubbed!

Thanks for checking in on her.


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Just wanted to let everyone know that Gretchen is getting around good today! YEAH! I think the meds have kicked in and reduced some of the swelling and given her some relief. Hopefully the meds will give her weeks or months or more. We'll take what we can get.

Thanks for all your emails and posts wishing her well....I think they all helped.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

WAY TO GO GRETCHEN!!! Gosh, I'm thrilled to hear that she's doing so much better!!!


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

I was SO afraid to click on this post. Have got to stop coming to the senior forum.......I am SO SO SO glad she's getting around today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Great news! I hope she continues to feel better!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Oh yay! Every good day truly is a gift! 

Good girl Gretchen!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

NICE!


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Glad to hear that!!







Thanks for the update and wishing Gretchen continued mobility!!


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Need help with doggie diapers. Her incontinence is pretty bad even with the Proin. At night she has a vinyl (one side) cover on her bed, so I just wash that each day. But if she moves around, then we have pee everywhere. She loves being outside during the day, so diapers arent' an issue then. But when she's in the house I need something. Also, wipes? Baby wipes? I've just been using a warm wash cloth to keep her clean.

A friend uses mens underwear (!) cuts a hole for the tail and inserts a maxi-pad! It's too hard for me to gets her legs in the openings (and painful for her) and then the tail in the hole since she is not very mobile or flexible. I looked in my catalogues and don't know what to order....

HELP!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Have you tried any of the herbal combos with Gretchen? I've had excellent luck with those. Is it just pee or both? If you're interested I can recommend some stuff to try. 

You should pm Donna. She had quite the system for Millie.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

> Quote:At night she has a vinyl (one side) cover on her bed, so I just wash that each day. But if she moves around, then we have pee everywhere.


Would she be too upset if you blocked her off in the master bathroom close to you where you can clean it up easier (tile floor)? Heidi is incontinent too but so far her medication has been working well. I can't put her in a crate because she can't turn around due to her back issues.



> Quote:Also, wipes? Baby wipes?


I use "Huggies Natural Care" for Heidi (Fragrance and alcohol free). She has stopped cleaning herself about four years ago so I have to do it for her after she pees. The wipes work pretty good but every now and then I have to break out the pressure washer







just kidding of course. Her vet told me to use her Allergroom (Virbac) shampoo and I just wash her really good and rinse. http://allergroom.com/

Michaela


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

What about those contraptions that holds a pad on a dog when she's in heat?


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Ruth
Yes, whatever herbal recommendations you have would be great. It's just pee. For the last 9mos she's been on the Proin...worked great. The vet had me up the dosage, but it's not working now.

I'll try the wipes (thanks Michaela)


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

OMG Michaela. We are all coming to live with you when we are old. 

http://www.handicappedpets.com/products.htm has a lot of products for these kind of things, too. 

Isn't there another drug other than Proin that sometimes works after the Proin stops? I think I remember another dog switching from one to the other and getting relief?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?searchterms=incontinence&mf=0

Here is the page from Only Natural Pet. They have some dog diapers too. Everything is rated. Their ratings are unbiased (you will see reviews from people who don't like the product as well as who do like the product). 

I have used a number of these products. My first gsd, Massie, had pretty severe incontinence and the Genesis Resources product worked amazingly well for her. 

The Leaks No More also works but I wouldn't use it longterm.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

> Quote:OMG Michaela. We are all coming to live with you when we are old.


LOL...come on down











> Quote: Isn't there another drug other than Proin that sometimes works after the Proin stops?


DES? Heidi has been on it for many years, she takes one capsule once a week. She hasn't had any side effects from it that we know off but of course I always worry. Heidi had urine running down her legs while she was just standing there before her vet put her on DES.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/diethylstilbestrol__des_.html

Michaela


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

I keep baby wipes or ones like Cottonelle on hand all the time for the dogs - can wipe feet or rears or whatever needed and they've never had a problem with them.

A friend of mine had a big male chow who was mostly paralyzed in the hindquarters and they had to diaper him. They used regular diapers from the store and cut a hole for the tail. I would think that you could just make a cut from the top of the diaper down far enough so that the tail can fit comfortably (instead of a hole) and then just use a bit of tape to fasten the diaper back together where it was cut at the top (along the dog's back). This way you can just put the diaper under her, pull it up around her hind legs and around the tail, and then tape it at the sides and top. She won't even have to pick up a leg. 

My heart goes out to you and Gretchen. My Trick is 12 years old and starting to show more signs of weakness and it's just so tough to take. You want them to live forever even though the logical side of you knows it's not possible.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## MatsiRed (Dec 5, 2004)

> Quote: You should pm Donna. She had quite the system for Millie.


Thanks, Ruth, got the pm.

Hi Corette. I'm sorry you are going through this. As a sidenote, I've heard and have been told many times over that the number one reason people take their dogs to the bridge is because they can't cope with incontinence issues. So I was determined to find ways to deal with it myself with Millie.

Millie was just like Gretchen. Initially, she was mildly incontinent, often because I couldn't get her out the door on time so we'd have dribbles on the way out, or if I was out of the house for too many hours, I always came home to puddles. I had a basement I was finishing to accomodate foster dogs like her, but the finished floor came much later, so I was trying to maintain an incontinent dog on a painted cement floor, which was really hard to clean and eventually got ruined. To make things worse, I also used scatter rugs because slippery floors presented too much risk for falling, and so spent my life at the laundramat.

Eventually, as her illness progressed, we came to a point you're at now, where she no longer had any bladder control at all, and her bedding was continuously saturated. This lead to many other problems that needed to be addressed too.

I will pull some photos together to demonstrate some of the solutions I came up with, and explain why, in my own experience, some things worked well and others didn't work at all. Stay tuned for my next post, which will come later today.

(Some of the photos will be a bit graphic, so in the meantime, if this won't be the right thread for this, please let me know ahead of time, and maybe I can start a 'how to cope with incontinence' thread instead?).


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

A new thread might be nice? One that could be a sticky? Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

When Nina was sick, I used layers-like Princess and the Pee...which helped, but thankfully she is okay now, and Kramer only does it a teeny bit every once in a while-and thankfully he doesn't notice it because he's Mr. Clean (with fur). 

I can see where it is a reason for euth-due to quality of life and what most people are equipped/able to do. Because I am not sure I could handle it. Maybe having a good system would help though!


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks Donna.
Her incontinence is not an 'issue' for us. We just deal with it. Her discomfort, pain and general saddness is more of a concern for us. Yes...I am doing laundry every day..but it's no big deal. Trying to keep her clean and dry is what I'm trying to stay on top of. She's not doing well today. She is not putting any weight on her right rear leg at all and is using her weak left rear. Some dogs can deal with these issues and still be happy about life. She is clearly distressed by all this. I'm going to call the vet today to see if there are any other things we should be doing for her medically. She down to every other day on her steroid dose...that may be the reason.....how do you balance the terrible things steroids do to her and the help/relief they provide? We just love her so much.


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## MatsiRed (Dec 5, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANA new thread might be nice? ....I can see where it is a reason for euth-due to quality of life and what most people are equipped/able to do. Because I am not sure I could handle it. Maybe having a good system would help though!


Yeah, probably not the right place to bring that up since it really has nothing to do with Gretchen, but I thought readers might be interested in that information. I'll save that discussion for the incontinence thread.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: CampPappyThanks Donna.
> She's not doing well today. She is not putting any weight on her right rear leg at all and is using her weak left rear. Some dogs can deal with these issues and still be happy about life. She is clearly distressed by all this. I'm going to call the vet today to see if there are any other things we should be doing for her medically. She down to every other day on her steroid dose...that may be the reason.....how do you balance the terrible things steroids do to her and the help/relief they provide? We just love her so much.


That's a tough one but for any of my dogs, after exhausting reasonable medical intervention, if I feel the quality of life is not there for them then I would send to the bridge.









I'm sorry you are going through this.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Sorry to hear Gretchen is having a bad day. It is so, so hard to watch and figure out what's right for them. I have gone through this several times now but it really doesn't seem to get any easier. Sigh...will keep Gretchen and your family in my thoughts today.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

And also at a point, I think that any pills that work-that increase quality of life-are worth whatever side effects they may cause (unless the side effects impact quality of life). SO maybe the steroids have to be a daily thing if they help, right! 

So sorry to hear she's having a rough time though.









And Donna-looking forward to hearing about this stuff in an incontinence thread.


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## MatsiRed (Dec 5, 2004)

> Quote: has had severe arthritis, bone spurs and DM for about the last 3 years...and a prolapsed disc...She's not doing well today. She is not putting any weight on her right rear leg at all and is using her weak left rear. Some dogs can deal with these issues and still be happy about life. She is clearly distressed by all this.


Hi Corette,

I read back more closely and had missed the part about the prolapsed disc, which is what my newest foster dog had. Combine that with severe arthritis and the DM, and I can understand how hard this must be for all of you, especially when she still has her good moments.

With Millie, it was pure mental torture at the end, for both of us. I found it very hard to read her, because unlike my terminally ill patients, she didn't seem to withdraw from life like I expected. Instead, she kept hanging on; eating, drinking, mentally engaging in her favorite activities despite her failing body. I kept asking her, 'what do you want me to do?' It was when I watched her drag the water bowl toward her with her teeth because her front legs were so weak that I realized it was not up to her anymore, that it was my job as her best friend to make a decision that was going to be far more uncomfortable for ME than it was going to be for HER.

So, when I read your posts about Gretchen, I can identify with the mental anguish that you are feeling, in terms of comfort measures and making that final decision. 

In terms of the Prednisone, it not only relieves much of the inflammation and therefore the pain, it can create a feeling of euphoria and improve the appetite, so as she weans off she'll also have some of the opposite effects. Do you have an option of just maintaining her on the steriods every day? I realize this can have long term consequences, but considering the progressive nature of her medical issues, she may have better quality of life in the interim.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Keeping Gretchen in our thoughts.


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Talked to the vet today and we're going to maintain her on a daily dose of steroids...the lowest dose that will work. She is really not moving at all today and we're using the towel support to get her out to pee. She is still eating....I didn't realize that the steroids would help her appetite. She certainly doesn't have any euphoria...she seems very sad. I am not one to prolong my dogs life for MY sake. It has to be a decision based on her quality of life and comfort. We'll see how she does the next day or two. I've had dogs that I loved all my life, and this never gets any easier. Thanks for your suggestions, help and support.


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## marksmom3 (Dec 17, 2007)

Thinking of Gretchen (& her family)


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

So sorry to tell you that we took our dear Gretchen to the bridge today. It's an incredibly sad day for us. She was crying from the pain of moving, unable to posture to poop, too difficult to walk even with support. I know we did the right thing for her, to end her pain. But as you all know, it is just devastating. Hubby especially, will miss his little girl. She was a great example of a rescue GSD and a wonderful ambassador for the breed.

Pictures of Our Miss Gretchen:


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

And she always hated this picture!!
Holloween 2007


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I am so very sorry. I am sure tonight feels so weird to you guys. Please express my condolences to your husband, too. She was such a beautiful girl and she and you were very lucky to have had each other.


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

Run free sweet Gretchen. I'm so sorry.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I can see why she hated that picture.







Looking at her in the snow, I can see that she clearly was a dog of incredible dignity. As hard as it was, I'm sure she appreciated your helping her keep her dignity to the end. My condolences to your family. My deepest sympathies especially to your husband. I'm terribly sorry.


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## kathyb (May 16, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss. You did everything that you could for her and she knew how much she was loved.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Oh no! I just saw this and began to cry. 

I am so sorry for your loss. Gretchen was obviously a wonderful dog and you can tell from those pictures just how fully she enjoyed life. You did the right thing. 

Take good care and please give my best to your husband.


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## Deuce'sMom (Jul 4, 2008)

I am so very sorry for your loss. She was indeed a lucky dog to have you both to care for a love her as you have.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear about Gretchen, I know you did all you could to give her a quality life. 

My condolences to you and your husband and all who loved her.

I just love the pictures you posted, she was such a beautiful girl!!! 








Rest in Peace sweet Gretchen, may you run free at the Bridge with all the energy and freedom you had as a puppy!!!


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

Gretchen was loved in life and loved in her kind death.

My sympathy to you and your family.

Mary Jane


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Oh I am so sorry!!!! 

I have not checked this thread in a few days, too tied up in my own small in comparison problems with Kayos and a hubby out of town and work. 

This made me very sad for you and your hubby.......... But you made the right decison for her and she will always thank you for your love and care. 


(((((HUGS)))))))


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

I am so sorry for you and your husband's loss. I admire the strength it took to take the pain away from your very special girl. It's devastating and heartbreaking. Run free and healthy, Gretchen...


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

Thank you all for your kind words. Today is almost worse....because she's not here. She was truly my husbands 'heart dog'. That big, tough, old school kind of guy is just crushed at losing her. But we'll remember the good times and that we had the honor of being her family for almost 12 yrs.

Thank you all so much.


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## mychance (Oct 22, 2007)

Corette, I just saw this and wanted to add my sympathies. When they leave us behind, it's really the only time they fail us isn't it. Gretchen was such a beautiful girl and she clearly looks at home in all of those pictures - just not quite so happy in that Halloween get-up! 

My thoughts are with you and your husband. I know my heart ached even more at seeing the loss in my BF's eyes when Chance left us.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

So sorry to hear this.







Your story reminds me so much of my Roxy's situation several years ago; spinal problem, steroids with some improvement, but in the end no improvement, really......

You did the kindest thing for her.







RIP Gretchen.


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## MatsiRed (Dec 5, 2004)

There are no words, Corette. The pictures say it all. Immeasurable love, you can see it in every photo of her. And as you say, an ambassador for rescue. My condolences to both you and your husband for the loss of your sweet Gretchen.


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## suerenn (Jul 20, 2005)

I am so sorry for your loss. RIP sweet Gretchen.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

I only just saw this final part of sweet Gretchen's journey. I am sorry for your loss but I am glad for her sake that you put her needs above yours. She was such a beautiful girl and those photos make me just want to give her a big hug as she looks so sweet and approachable - probably because she is looking at those that loved her while those photos were being taken.

Hugs to you on your loss.

RIP Gretchen


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

I am so sorry for you and your husband's loss. 

Run free and healthy, Gretchen


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## marksmom3 (Dec 17, 2007)

Gretchen was a beautiful girl. 
I love the picture of her in the snow.
I'm sorry for your loss. RIP Gretchen.


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## Sasha & Joy (May 13, 2003)

I am so sorry for your loss of your girl Gretchen. My condolences to you and your family.

Rest in Peace Gretchen.


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