# Neutering...when?



## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

It's been 10 years since the last puppy. What are recent time recommendations on when to neuter? My last one I had done as early as the vet would do it, around 6 months.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

why do you want to have your dog neutered? i've never neutered
my dogs?


----------



## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

I was told by the breeder 18 months if you want the dog neutered.

Vets will say as early as possible and really push for no later than 6 months. I'm happy my new vet understands why I'm waiting. 

I also saw a reproduction specialist vet. She said for my dog between 12 and 18 months. He has one testicle that did not descend. She also gave the option to remove the one that is still inside, give him a vasectomy and allow him to keep the one that is down. He should not breed. We're still deciding on what course to take.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It really depends on the circumstances and why you want to neuter the dog. 

For example, if you have an intact female or two and another intact male of another breed, and three of their young adult mixed breed female offspring who are all intact as well, then you will want to neuter the boy, now, at 8 weeks. (Sorry, that was the scenario of some guy that got himself killed by his dogs getting into a fight and he and his wife were attacked trying to separate them.)

Really though, it does depend on the situation and the reason. If your reason for neutering is to prevent your dog from roaming the neighborhood in search of females to impregnate, go ahead and neuter at six months. Chances are slim that he can reproduce before them. This is a containment issue more than a hormone issue, but if females in heat are anywhere in the neighborhood an amorous young male may be more than ready to find a way out of the yard. Frankly, keeping a GSD at home and safe ought to be a priority regardless to whether or not he is intact. 

If the reason for neutering is that young males might mark or hump or become pushy or stubborn in training -- most of these are training issues, but neutering may be helpful. Waiting for the growth plates to close is the best bet. Usually 12 to 18 months is fine. But lots of dogs are neutered younger, when they suddenly become teenagers. The butthead stage claims many a young dog's hormones. 

If you want to neuter for health reasons, wait for him to be fully mature 2-3 years, or don't neuter at all -- far more healthy.


----------



## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

What selzer says pretty much sums up a long discussion I had with my vet prior to purchasing my dog.

My vet also published a paper on a study he did involving dogs who had been neutered prior to 6 months having a very high likelyhood of acl injuires.

He recommoneded if I were to consider neutering that it wouldn't be until after 3 years old.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Plenty of reading material on the subject here.  Search results: Neutering


----------



## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

selzer said:


> It really depends on the circumstances and why you want to neuter the dog.
> 
> For example, if you have an intact female or two and another intact male of another breed, and three of their young adult mixed breed female offspring who are all intact as well, then you will want to neuter the boy, now, at 8 weeks. (Sorry, that was the scenario of some guy that got himself killed by his dogs getting into a fight and he and his wife were attacked trying to separate them.)
> 
> ...


So there are a number of reasons that you touched on that I agree with. I live in a semi rural area with neighbors who not only don't contain their dogs but don't spay, continue to get more dogs and cats as the old ones run off, get hit by cars or killed by bears, mountain lions or other animals.

We have a great fence of about 1 & 1/2 acres for the dogs but I've never found a truly escape proof fence either. 

I don't want to breed him, I have no interest in showing him and quite frankly almost every intact male dog I've been around is obnoxious and bugs the crap out of me with the marking, humping and generally over the top behavior. And yet I prefer neutered male dogs to female dogs whether spayed or not.

Growth plates...tell about how neutering can affect that please?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Plenty of reading material on the subject here.  Search results: Neutering


Sorry I'm on my mobile and couldn't figure out the search on the app.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

I have limited biological knowledge and have only gathered what i can briefly explain from a few different readings but..

Growth plates, joint development and tendon strength of growing and fully developed dogs are generated by the hormones that the dogs body is creating. Neutering or spayed dogs that are done prior to 6 months, old at the very earliest, inhibits the creation and secreation of said hormones and therefore stunts the growth of those dogs. I also believe there are certain characteristics that, from an early spay or neuter will also inhibit brain and cognitvie development.

The humping, marking and over the top behavior are largely training issues.


----------



## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/30/neutering-health-risks.aspx

A link that helped us decide....our vet watched and share some of the same concerns...seems there are more concerns than these but our political system being what it is...special interest groups....get to push their preferences and ideas...while others pay for their closed minded ideas...instead of finding other options that could benefit everyone and possibly prevent illness. Definitely think people should be questioning it more than they do. 

Good luck with your decision. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

Thanks for the feedback! My hubby and I will talk it over. He's going to be neutered for sure just not sure when, but the feedback helps!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Actually, the growth plates will close, neutered or not. But neutering can delay the closure of the growth plates, which will mean the long bones can continue to grow a little longer that they would have otherwise. This will mean that an early neuter might cause a dog to have a taller, leggier appearance. 

Also, removing the testosterone prior to the dog being mature can inhibit secondary sex characteristics from developing properly, giving the impression of a bitchy dog -- usually a more feminine head, less depth/stregth in the chest area, and not much of a mane or rough of hair around the neck.


----------



## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

Hey Selzer I have a question for you about neutering. My boy is just shy of 18 months, the age I am planning on getting him fixed. Lately he has started marking. He will mark almost everything he can, I even had to stop him when he started to mark a spot on the carpet of our new house. I know a lot of this has to do with him maturing. My question is will the marking behavior slow down once he is fixed or am I just stuck with it?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

OUbrat79 said:


> Hey Selzer I have a question for you about neutering. My boy is just shy of 18 months, the age I am planning on getting him fixed. Lately he has started marking. He will mark almost everything he can, I even had to stop him when he started to mark a spot on the carpet of our new house. I know a lot of this has to do with him maturing. My question is will the marking behavior slow down once he is fixed or am I just stuck with it?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


It might get better. My last two dogs were intact, and never marked in my house. I have some bitches who mark over every other bitches' pee, and it's kind of wearing, especially at -10 degrees F, and I'm out there in my PJs getting frost bite, but they don't mark in the house. 

I would correct him and clean the area with an enzyme based cleaner, and block access to it, possibly until after you get him neutered. 

Give him a couple of weeks after the neuter for the hormones to level off, and you might see a change. 

Good luck.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

The most masculine looking dog I have ever owned was neutered at 6 months so I also think it depends a lot on genetics. 

The marking behavior will not go away with neutering. That is behavioral. Rafi is only allowed to mark when he's off leash. When I walk him on leash there is no marking allowed!


----------



## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

selzer said:


> It might get better. My last two dogs were intact, and never marked in my house. I have some bitches who mark over every other bitches' pee, and it's kind of wearing, especially at -10 degrees F, and I'm out there in my PJs getting frost bite, but they don't mark in the house.
> 
> I would correct him and clean the area with an enzyme based cleaner, and block access to it, possibly until after you get him neutered.
> 
> ...


It shocked me when he did it because he knows better. Part of it may have been that the house was empty, we haven't moved our stuff in yet. He was smelling all the new smells and just did it. I corrected it quickly and cleaned it well. His marking started pretty much all of a sudden, about a month ago. I'm hoping he will slow down after being fixed. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I neutered my Pom at 5 years old, mainly because we were trying to adopt a dog from the shelter at the time but the other issue was him marking in the house... That completely stopped after he was neutered.

Now my question is I have a 16 month old GSD who is now become a big bully to other dogs and our 2 year old neutered male golden. He will charge up to other dogs tail up and will now bark right in their face and growl... I do not let him off leash with other dogs anymore but at home there is definitely some tension with our golden. They've never had a fight but I could see it happening. This is pretty much the only reason I've been thinking of neutering(though he's also very leash reactive to dogs since he was 6 months). We have done all kinds of training, he has structure at home, NILIF, etc. I'm just not sure what else to do. All of this behavior didn't start until a few months after he turned a year.

Sorry not trying to hijack thread but thought others might find this info useful as well!


----------



## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

I would be hugely open to being able to sterilize my dogs but leave their hormones intact if that were an option, especially if I want to be certain a dog doesn't breed at all (has something hereditary that must be end of the line, not a good candidate in general, etc). Otherwise, I'm planning to keep my dogs intact until well into their later years, if not forever, depending on their specific needs. 

I am firmly against mandatory spay/neuters, as I want to make my own choices, and it's pretty much been proven that it doesn't really make a difference all things considered. At the same time, since the general public can often suck at keeping their intact dogs from breeding, I can see why rescues and shelters go ahead and use early S/N to keep 'oops' litters from happening. If I want to choose to adopt from one of those places, then I'm bound by their rules or face not being able to adopt from there.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

The 2 big surges of testosterone are at, I believe, 5 and 7 months. If I have a choice, I neuter between 8-10 months, if I don't, I don't, like OWacky says. I also have them do x-rays while they are under so I know that any HD is pre-existing. If I had a GSD I would ask if doing elbows and spine at that time would be helpful. 

The amount of height added is in the centimeter range (so under an inch). And I've seen a rescue litter where one male was not neutered for a while per a working dog contract, and his brothers who were actual pediatric neuters (by definition), are much more masculine looking so who knows.


----------



## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

selzer said:


> Actually, the growth plates will close, neutered or not. But neutering can delay the closure of the growth plates, which will mean the long bones can continue to grow a little longer that they would have otherwise. This will mean that an early neuter might cause a dog to have a taller, leggier appearance.
> 
> Also, removing the testosterone prior to the dog being mature can inhibit secondary sex characteristics from developing properly, giving the impression of a bitchy dog -- usually a more feminine head, less depth/stregth in the chest area, and not much of a mane or rough of hair around the neck.


Okay, that sort of makes sense. Here are a few pics of my old GSD Rebel:




He was neutered around 7 months or so. His sire weighed 120, Reb never broke 100 pounds. He was sort of lanky, but I neutered early because the vet and the trainer both recommended it since he was also extremely challenging drive-wise. I don't really see the issue in the pictures of him, he was always all male even without his testicles.

Odin is NOT out of the same line thankfully, and his sire, grand-sire and great grand-sire that we met were all more stocky dogs, not as tall, but more proportionate than Rebel was--if that makes sense.

So I'm gathering that the happy medium is more like 12 to 18 months?


----------



## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> The 2 big surges of testosterone are at, I believe, 5 and 7 months. If I have a choice, I neuter between 8-10 months, if I don't, I don't, like OWacky says. I also have them do x-rays while they are under so I know that any HD is pre-existing. If I had a GSD I would ask if doing elbows and spine at that time would be helpful.
> 
> The amount of height added is in the centimeter range (so under an inch). And I've seen a rescue litter where one male was not neutered for a while per a working dog contract, and his brothers who were actual pediatric neuters (by definition), are much more masculine looking so who knows.


Thanks for that feedback. Having had lanky sheps in my past, it's nice to know that the height added is really pretty minimal. I think that lifestyle has a lot more to do with muscular development (as does the genetic line) than neutering seems too--just my experience so far.


----------



## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

3dognite said:


> Okay, that sort of makes sense. Here are a few pics of my old GSD Rebel:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that dog does not look girly at all!!!


----------



## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

my boy diesel said:


> that dog does not look girly at all!!!


No he was very very far from girly. In fact, he was such a handful that I swore off gsd's -- for a while!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I prefer to wait 18-24 months.

I neutered my male GSD when he was 15 months old.

I wanted to wait until 2 years of age to neuter my male Dalmatian but he only has one testicle that has dropped so my Vet said that I can wait until he is 18 months old and then I have to neuter him.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LaRen616 said:


> I prefer to wait 18-24 months.
> 
> I neutered my male GSD when he was 15 months old.
> 
> I wanted to wait until 2 years of age to neuter my male Dalmatian but he only has one testicle that has dropped so my Vet said that I can wait until he is 18 months old and then I have to neuter him.


I would ask the vet why 18 months. I don't agree that it is necessary if you wanted to wait until 2 years to do it at 18 months, but maybe he has a good reason, with some newer data.


----------



## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

Thanks everyone for the feedback and keeping it all civil. Guess I wasn't aware this topic could be akin to the skin-kid version of breast feeding vs. formula. 

Anyway, I know some of the thoughts, pros and cons out there these days and will be able to make a more informed decision now.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I have always fixed mine at around 6 months and have never had a small GSD. My current female was spayed at 7 months and her height is well above recommended height. My current male was neutered at 6 months and he is a perfect height. People have said to me, they may have grown bigger if I didn't fix them so early, but I wouldn't want them bigger.

Deciding when to fix, in my opinion is a personal choice and you need to decide what best works for you and your family.


----------



## fredh (Sep 10, 2013)

When we got Jake, it was in the Puppy Sale Agreement that He had to be Neutered no earlier than 18 months and no later than 24 months. We got him done the day he was 18 months. With our Breeder, when you buy the Puppy you pay $5,000 for the Right to Breed and any where from $1,200 to $1,800 for Non Breeding. As we were not going to compete with him it was a no brainer. The Vet wanted to do the procedure at 6 months but the general concensus seems to be around 18 months for this breed.


----------



## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

selzer said:


> I would ask the vet why 18 months. I don't agree that it is necessary if you wanted to wait until 2 years to do it at 18 months, but maybe he has a good reason, with some newer data.


The reason they want dogs with only one testicle dropped neutered by 18 months at the latest, is after 2 years there is a higher chance for cancer on the retained testicle. 

Cryptorchidism and Undescended Testicles - all you need to know.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It would have been helpful if it would have given the percentage of dogs that get testicular cancer, at what age, the percentage of dogs that have an undecended testicle that get testicular cancer, and at what age. 

By what you wrote, the risk gets greater after the dog reaches two, which suggests that waiting until two shouldn't be an issue.

From what I have understood, testicular cancer usually hits dogs in middle to old age. I would wait until the dog is two if that is what you would have done otherwise. I would go ahead and neuter, even though generally I won't neuter or spay. But with an undecended testicle you will not detect a tumor as quickly as you would if they are out in the open.


----------



## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

selzer said:


> It would have been helpful if it would have given the percentage of dogs that get testicular cancer, at what age, the percentage of dogs that have an undecended testicle that get testicular cancer, and at what age.
> 
> By what you wrote, the risk gets greater after the dog reaches two, which suggests that waiting until two shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> From what I have understood, testicular cancer usually hits dogs in middle to old age. I would wait until the dog is two if that is what you would have done otherwise. I would go ahead and neuter, even though generally I won't neuter or spay. But with an undecended testicle you will not detect a tumor as quickly as you would if they are out in the open.


I took the advise of a reproduction specialist vet. Which was to neuter or choose one of the other methods she offered between 12 to 18 months. The reason was the high cancer risk.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

trcy said:


> I took the advise of a reproduction specialist vet. Which was to neuter or choose one of the other methods she offered between 12 to 18 months. The reason was the high cancer risk.


I would still need for them to give me the numbers. Give me the risks, and I will make the decision. I think there isn't much difference between 18 and 24 months, and if the risk was significantly worse to wait until 24, I probably would do it, but I wouldn't do it without some data. 

Maybe I don't trust veterinarians who are wanting to neuter my dog. Some really want to neuter and spay all dogs, regardless. Many feel the sooner, the better. Some are just going off of some protocol they read somewhere. As for repro-vets, I went to a seminar once and that fellow said that the retained testicle is no more likely than a descended testicle to get cancer, it is harder to detect if it does happen, and it safe to wait and have it removed after the dog is fully mature. But I am sure that even amongst specialists there are differences of opinions. This is why I would like to see some numbers. I would like to see how many intact dogs with a retained testicle was diagnosed with testicular cancer before the age of 2.


----------



## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

selzer said:


> I would still need for them to give me the numbers. Give me the risks, and I will make the decision. I think there isn't much difference between 18 and 24 months, and if the risk was significantly worse to wait until 24, I probably would do it, but I wouldn't do it without some data.
> 
> Maybe I don't trust veterinarians who are wanting to neuter my dog. Some really want to neuter and spay all dogs, regardless. Many feel the sooner, the better. Some are just going off of some protocol they read somewhere. As for repro-vets, I went to a seminar once and that fellow said that the retained testicle is no more likely than a descended testicle to get cancer, it is harder to detect if it does happen, and it safe to wait and have it removed after the dog is fully mature. But I am sure that even amongst specialists there are differences of opinions. This is why I would like to see some numbers. I would like to see how many intact dogs with a retained testicle was diagnosed with testicular cancer before the age of 2.


I've done my own research and I don't need the exact numbers. Two different vets as well as the breeders vets have all said the same thing. Which matched my research. 

I know I wrote this before, but the reproduction specialist did not say he had to be neutered. She said the retained testicle needed to come out between 18 to 24 months. She said we could remove the retained testicle and let him keep the one that dropped, we could neuter him or we could remove the testicle that is retained, give the dog a vasectomy and let him keep the dropped testicle. She did NOT say he had to be fully de-sexed. In fact she is not pro neutering just for the sake of it. I will probably have him neutered though. My choice, my decision.


----------



## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

I recently neutered my dog. He had just passed his third birthday. Only reason I did it was because I was trying to adopt a very particular kitten, and the rescue had a hard line attitude about spayed and neutered pets. I explained to them why I had chosen not to neuter at an earlier age, but had no real objection since my dog was now mature, and they understood but held their line, so I went ahead and agreed. But I will say now, it didn't affect my dog at all, so it really *was* unnecessary. I haven't seen ANY impact whatsoever, positive or negative. So, I don't regret it, because it didn't appear to affect my boy negatively, beyond the occasional licking of his lost members which didn't even last a week or so... But still, in the end, it wasn't necessary, IMO. Except that now I own an exceptionally beautiful kitten who is a tyrant to live with and believes he is entitled to sleep on my face, lol! Idk, cats are a dime a dozen. If I had a do over, I'd probably have kept my Jack intact. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

But, had my boy been younger, I would not even have considered it. He needed time to grow up and fill out. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

JackandMattie said:


> I recently neutered my dog. He had just passed his third birthday. Only reason I did it was because I was trying to adopt a very particular kitten, and the rescue had a hard line attitude about spayed and neutered pets. I explained to them why I had chosen not to neuter at an earlier age, but had no real objection since my dog was now mature, and they understood but held their line, so I went ahead and agreed. But I will say now, it didn't affect my dog at all, so it really *was* unnecessary. I haven't seen ANY impact whatsoever, positive or negative. So, I don't regret it, because it didn't appear to affect my boy negatively, beyond the occasional licking of his lost members which didn't even last a week or so... But still, in the end, it wasn't necessary, IMO. Except that now I own an exceptionally beautiful kitten who is a tyrant to live with and believes he is entitled to sleep on my face, lol! Idk, cats are a dime a dozen. If I had a do over, I'd probably have kept my Jack intact.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I made a typo it was between 12 and 18 months. :blush:


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

trcy said:


> I took the advise of a reproduction specialist vet. Which was to neuter or choose one of the other methods she offered between 12 to 18 months. The reason was the high cancer risk.


My Vet was fine with me saying that I wanted to wait until he was 2 to neuter him, he had no issues with it but then a couple of weeks later only one ball had dropped and then he told me that longest we should wait to neuter is 18 months because of the higher risk of cancer but he also said that the ball that didn't drop can become really hot while still in his body and it can cause other issues.


----------



## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

trcy said:


> I made a typo it was between 12 and 18 months. :blush:


Well, I'm not an expert... Just Internet research and what I learned here in the forums. But 12-18 mos sounds young. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Cvan (Jan 18, 2014)

Hi I have a 1 year old german shepherd who got neutered yesterday I am really concerned if we did the right thing I am having mixed feelings about it. Please help and let me know if anyone else has done this at 1 and how their dog is doing now. He seems to be doing well but I am still worried I have heard many different things about what happens after neutering I just don't want him to grow obese or change in any way could u please help


----------

