# All Sables/Bicolor working line?



## Tetley's Mom (Dec 1, 2008)

I hope this is the right place to post this question: Are all sables and bi-colors working line??









DH and I are thinking of getting a second GSD in a year or so. I always wanted a sable or bi-color but only see them in Working Lines. DH prefers Showlines after having Tetley. She is active, but not too over the top. He doesn't know if we could 'handle' a high drive working line after some of the stuff we've read.


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Not all pups are high drive, and not everyone who breeds from the working line breeds for high drive.
Find a breeder you trust, and discuss with them what you are looking for.
If they don't have a pup for you, then they should be able to direct you.
My Bi is from working lines and the gentlist in the house.


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## Tetley's Mom (Dec 1, 2008)

Thanks! Our breeder for Tetley was AMAZING in selecting the best dog for us. I'm glad to hear not all are bred for high drive. I feel like most breeders add that caveat to all breedings.


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

"High Drive" does not always mean crazy.
I consider all of my dogs (except Mr. Frodo) high drive.
They have learned how to direct it to live very nicely in my house as loving house pets.
Again, talk to the breeder of your choice! They can give you great insight on each of the pups they have!
Good luck!


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

My Bi DDR is 110lbs of goof ball his only drive is when you play ball
in the house he is as gentle as anything

Jess will tell you about B and her Bi is a sweetie


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Show lines are usually black and tan (or red which really just a deep tan) becuase these were the winning colors so the other colors were bred out. Black and tan markings are genetically dominant over sable and bi-colored. 

I'll leave it to someone more qualified in GSD genetics than I to explain the odds of finding an american showline dog who's a sable or bi-color. 

When you're talking about working line dogs, you need to ask the question 'Are they breeding for sport?' This is where you're going to get into extreme drives. Someone who's breeding working lines (like the old DDR lines) to be family dogs is going to have far more mellow puppies than someone who's breeding west german working lines for SchH.

I have an east german dog, he's a Grafental grandson, as is Dawn's Brady. They're wonderful dogs, loving, not over the top drivey can't sit down and chill out and smart, so smart. Never mind they're really good looking.

I also have a west german workingline bitch. She's nuts. Over the top batshit nuts, Morgan, you need to act your age!


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: NC_PetMommaAre all sables and bi-colors working line??


By all means, no! I am unsure of the West German show lines, but know for a fact that North American show lines (whether under the AKC or UKC or CKC) have many, many sables and bi-colors.

I'm no genetics or breed expert, so I can only tell you what I have seen and noticed. And while black/tans definitely dominate in the show line world, it doesn't mean there only are black/tans among the show lines.

Some examples include:
Karizma's Born to Run Von Loar









Ch. Whispawillow's Ms. Congeniality









Skylyne's Unanswered Prayers









Ch. Whispawillow's Poetic Justice









U-Ch. Eclipse's Sheriff of Hazzard County









And these are just dogs that I pulled off of breeder websites that I have off the top of my head. Some are AKC, some are UKC, and some are CKC registered. These aren't necessarily dogs that are good examples of the breed or dogs from superb, well known breeding kennels, of course. Just ones that I found to use as a reference picture.

Can't find any bi-colors, quite a few blanket backs, but there are definitely many among the show lines.

ETA: found a bi-color

AKC CH Pointed /UKC Grand CH Liebchen's Soul Man











> Originally Posted By: NC_PetMommaHe doesn't know if we could 'handle' a high drive working line after some of the stuff we've read.


This really depends a lot on how well the breeder matches up you and the dog/puppy and how honest the breeder is. There is no question about it - you can easily find a laid back, low drive dog among the working lines. Trent is from working lines and Schutzhund/IPO/VPG trained and titled parents, but I asked for a low drive companion and got just what I wanted. He sleeps around in the house, has relatively low drive, and is just the perfect family companion. Sure, he's always up to anything and has tons of energy when we go out, but he loves to laze around indoors, too.


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

My sable West German working line boy has police dog siblings. He is the calmest, most stable and gentlest dog I could ask for. Loves to play, swim, chase things when it's playtime, but is great just going for an easy walk and is a dreamboat around the house, as he is with people and other dogs. I could not believe it was him when I saw his puppy bitework videos! He's such a mushball!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Ha!! I know that bi color







That's KC!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My friend has an American Showline bitch who is sable.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaBlack and tan markings are genetically dominant over sable and bi-colored.


i'm pretty sure that i've read (here? from chris wild?) more than once that sable is dominant over any other color.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Halo is a sable working line girl, and she's not much different than Keefer, our black and red German showline boy. By far the most difficult things about her is that she is a destructive chewer (so were Sneaker and Cassidy, our American showline girls), and that I'm having a heck of a time teaching her to take treats gently. Other than that, her energy, enthusiasm and drive are very comparable to Keefer's. They both are obsessed with food and crazy for balls, which is great for motivational training. Her intelligence and focus are amazing. She settles down at home just fine most of the time, the rest of the time she and Keefer chew on each other and chase each other around the house (see my recent smackdown video), which helps to tire both of them out. I honestly don't think you'd have any trouble with the right working line puppy.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Sable is dominate but in the West German Showlines it seems that they have pretty much bred the sable out of the lines


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.Sable is dominate but in the West German Showlines it seems that they have pretty much bred the sable out of the lines


yes... and i imagine the same happen within the American Showlines even tho i see more sable AmShow then WGShow. the B/T still dominant greatly, just not genetically.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

There are several sable German show lines. I've never seen a German show line in anything other than black and tan (with a few very "blanket") or sable (except maybe a dilute), but no blacks or bi's.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Sables and Bis can be found in American show lines, as well as domestic "pet lines" in addition to working lines. There are occasionally sables found in German show lines, though most often they are very patterned sables that closely resemble black/tan unless you get close. Never seen a Bi German show line. The genetics for colors other than black/tan are essentially extinct in most German show lines, but the occasional sable can be found.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarina Black and tan markings are genetically dominant over sable and bi-colored.


Nope.

Sable is genetically the most dominant color. This making it the easiest color to breed OUT of a bloodline if desired.

Black/tan is dominant over everything else *except* sable.

In order of dominance, GSD colors go:
Sable
Black/Tan
Bi color
Self colored (Black)


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Most of the German show line sables you see from kennels Margman, Haus Dexel, Arlett, Silbersee...and I think most of these are coming from Timo vom Berrekasten and the sable Arlett dogs.

A write-up on sable and pigmentation from Arlett (haven't read through it myself so I can't vouch for accuracy but it has some nice pics and charts)"
http://www.arlett.de/sables/index.html


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

Here's a sable dog from American showlines. He was often mistaken for a "German" German shepherd...


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