# Potty Training



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I have a now 4 month old female german shepherd that does not care if she goes pee and/or poop in her crate. I understand that she might not be able to hold it all night, but she isn't even crying, she just goes when she feels necessary. Throughout the day if she is out 8 times she might ask one of those times. Most of the time I just take her out because I feel like its getting close to that time. I have taken her out and within 5 minutes she peed on the couch--this happened twice. I also notice that she doesn't sleep much..She takes cat naps and maybe sleeps 4-6 hours a day..the rest of the time she is a ball of energy. I'm thinking that I am going to start walking her for two miles per day on a trail to tire her out...should I do this at any time during the day or closer to the night time, so she will be tired and sleep all night? I have never had this hard of a time potty training a dog


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

Have you ruled out any type of infection?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

She had worms, but after she was treated that test came out negative as far as the poop goes. She is going in to get spayed on Wednesday and I'm probably going to check for a UTI, but in my experience she isn't showing signs of having pain or problems urinating, she drinks a normal amt of water and when she pees she pees. She was never one to just piddle. At 3 months, she was peeing like she was 3 years old...lots of pee for a little girl.


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

I'd make sure to tell the vet of her behaviors so they can rule out anything possibly medical.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

When she went for her shots last week they didn't seem to have any concerns..they chalked it all up to being a puppy. Its almost like she hasn't learned how to control it yet..even when she asks to go out I have to be at that door immediately or its to late. She is like child that gets too busy to stop to use the bathroom:help:


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

No, at 4 months she should be able to control it. I'm surprised that your vet didn't do more than just "chalk it up". There are many dogs right here on this forum that were potty trained before that, mine included. Both of mine were trained before 3 months. There has got to be something else going on.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

This is what I'm thinking too. She is a great dog, very smart. I have a golden retriever that was trained at 12 weeks and I have never looked back. The german shepherd is proving to be difficult-more difficult then what a german shepherd should be. I should add that up until I got her a month or so ago(I got her when she was about 3 months), she was born, raised, and basically lived outside...should I take this into account? Even if I get her tested for a uti, what about the poop? That is firm, well when it comes out it is--not so much after she pees too...uggggg:smirk:


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

Hi,
I'm new to owning a dog and GS, so I'm not an expert; but just a thought...
Is she on a feeding schedule?
The first night that we got Rocco, I left the food and water out for him and he peed and pooped ALL NIGHT LONG!! Now, he doesn't eat or drink after 9pm and is taken out at least twice after feeding before going to bed for the night. Also, I had to use the word "potty" and praising to get him to understand it has to be outside. He still has accidents, though, especially when he's roaming free (we have to watch him).


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I have tried any/all feeding routines with her...I have two other dogs that I put what they are allowed for the day in the bowl and they eat whenever--usually they don't finish even that. Well now that she's around she eats her food, then goes and finishes theres...that had to stop because its two different foods and her poop wasn't good. So now she eats in the morning and early evening(6ish) in her crate so my other dogs can eat. And boy can she eat The same goes for water. I used to have it out at all times, but now its up by 7 the latest, which doesn't make the other dogs happy and obviously isn't working because she is still going in the middle of the night..so yes we are all a bunch of miserable people/dogs


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

llombardo said:


> Its almost like she hasn't learned how to control it yet...


Or, she doesn't understand yet that outside is the only appropriate place for potties. Because she's been doing in the house and her crate for so long, it's going to be harder to train her out of it - it's become established behavior/

What you you do when she potties outside? Do you make a big deal about it with happy praise like she's just done the most amazing thing ever? Do you give her a treat afterwards every single time? Do you have a "go potty" cue? Have you treated her crate and all the pee spots in the house with an enzyme cleaner to completely remove the smell? If not, she can still smell it and will be attracted back to those areas, even if you can't smell it. 

Every time she has an accident in the house, you delay housebreaking. Find a way to manage her environment to prevent accidents as much as possible. If she goes in her crate during the night without alerting you that she needs to go out, figure out how long she can hold it and then set an alarm and take her out shortly before that. Tether her to you around the house so she's never out of your sight and you can see if she starts to squat. Interrupt her and rush her outside immediately.

She's not going to ask to go out until she understands that she MUST go out to do her business.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I would think that yes, being born and raised the first 3 months entirely outside would be an impediment to housebreaking initially. 

You mentioned you were going to "start walking her two miles a day".....I was definitely doing that much in a day at that age with my pup. Not necessarily boring street walks for that long (although once in a while) but definitely hikes and parks and stuff like that. Are you not doing any thing like that now?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

RocketDog said:


> I would think that yes, being born and raised the first 3 months entirely outside would be an impediment to housebreaking initially.


I missed that part, and I completely agree with RocketDog. Even though she's 4 months old, the housebreaking process started when you got her, so it's only been a month. Some pups will pick it up that fast, but many won't. The fact that she's older is good, her bowel and bladder control is better than an 8 week old puppy, so in theory she should be easier to housebreak because she can hold it longer. 

But you're still going to have to teach her that she can't potty in the house. Because she lived outdoors prior to you getting her, she was peeing and pooping when she needed to, where she needed to for 3 months. That's exactly what she's doing now, but because she's in the house, she's doing it there some of the time instead of just outside.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

She hasn't gone in her crate since I got her, this started 4 days ago when I put up the bigger crate because she outgrew the other one. The one she is in now is big, so I put up a divider after the first 2 accidents and she still went. She gets a treat and praise when she potties outside. I use simple solution to clean pee pee. She really hasn't gone poo in the house. And the pee pee is always by the door but she forgot to ask before she went. She is very wishy washy when it comes to asking...I have seen her ask where its noticeable and then other times nothing. She is smart, just graduated from her puppy class and learned everything immediately, so this has to be me not her.I've tried crating her and taking her out ever 3-4 hours too. I take her out even when she doesn't ask because I can't trust her. Once she learns to give more warning everything will be good. She's a whiner so its hard sometimes to know why she is whining...whenever the mood strikes she starts "talking"--I just have to learn to understand her..:crazy:


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

Another thought...
How big is her crate? She shouldn't have enough room to go potty and get away from it. This is what I've heard anyway, Rocco's cage is more than big enough and he doesn't do it in there; but maybe in your case, it matters.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> I would think that yes, being born and raised the first 3 months entirely outside would be an impediment to housebreaking initially.
> 
> You mentioned you were going to "start walking her two miles a day".....I was definitely doing that much in a day at that age with my pup. Not necessarily boring street walks for that long (although once in a while) but definitely hikes and parks and stuff like that. Are you not doing any thing like that now?



Unfortunately not very consistently..I try to do it on the weekends when I have some daylight, but where I live access to the sidewalks are not good and with the snow its non existent..It's too dangerous to walk on the street. I have a park near by that I take her to as often as I can, but I leave for work and get home from work when its dark, so another not safe alternative. She gets plenty of play time with the other dogs, running back and forth and rough housing, but I know she needs more. I just have to figure out how to give it to her. She can walk for very long periods without getting tired, which only shows me her strength, endurance and abilities. Besides schooling(2 more classes to go) I want to get her into agility also for an outlet.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Angelina03 said:


> Another thought...
> How big is her crate? She shouldn't have enough room to go potty and get away from it. This is what I've heard anyway, Rocco's cage is more than big enough and he doesn't do it in there; but maybe in your case, it matters.



Her new crate is bigger then it should be, so I put up the divider and she still went..


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I missed that part, and I completely agree with RocketDog. Even though she's 4 months old, the housebreaking process started when you got her, so it's only been a month. Some pups will pick it up that fast, but many won't. The fact that she's older is good, her bowel and bladder control is better than an 8 week old puppy, so in theory she should be easier to housebreak because she can hold it longer.
> 
> But you're still going to have to teach her that she can't potty in the house. Because she lived outdoors prior to you getting her, she was peeing and pooping when she needed to, where she needed to for 3 months. That's exactly what she's doing now, but because she's in the house, she's doing it there some of the time instead of just outside.



So what do I do, continue on with the potty training as if she was 8 weeks just coming into my home? How long do you guys think it will take to undo what was done the first 3 months of her life? I find I have little patience because I keep comparing her to my golden who was trained and out of his crate completely by 12 weeks with no issues. Then I look at her and I think about where she came from and how far she has come. I'd like to go back to those people to give them a piece of my mind for confusing such a sweet little creature.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm not nearly as experienced as some, and Cassidy's mom had excellent advice. 
If it were me, I would not wait for her to signal me, I would just start over and take her out very, very frequently. Can you afford (or are you able) to take a couple of days off entirely from work, so you can be with her for a long stretch of time? Don't allow her the opportunity to go in the house or crate. If you take her out and she doesn't go, then starts to go when you come back in, I would make a startling sound (not scary, maybe an Ehhh ehhh ehhh) and pick her up and run her back outside. 

Good luck with the exercise. Is there a friend who would maybe meet you in the am's before work for a quick half hour or something, so you would feel safer? Maybe a couple laps around the park? It's a pain but to me, it's like having a baby. There is a lot that is exhausting and no one wants to get up early or in the middle of the night, but we do it because we have to and we love them.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

llombardo said:


> She is smart, just graduated from her puppy class and learned everything immediately, so this has to be me not her.


Good for you for recognizing this! :thumbup: As I said, you've only been working on this for a month, which is really not that long. And it sounds like you've been doing all the right things.....except for having realistic expectations.  

She's not going to be consistent about letting you know she needs to go outside until she's consistent about not having accidents in the house. As long as you're taking her out often enough she shouldn't be peeing in the house unless she hasn't quite gotten it that she's not supposed to. And until she knows that she's not supposed to pee in the house, how would she know that she she has to alert you to take her to pee outside?

My puppies always seemed to learn where TO potty before they learned where NOT to. I could take them out, say "go potty", and they'd do it right on cue. It would be easy to think that they had it all figured out, except that there was still the occasional accident in the house for awhile after that. So they have to learn YES, pee here, (outside) NO, don't pee there (in the house), and then, how to alert you that they need to go outside.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> I'm not nearly as experienced as some, and Cassidy's mom had excellent advice.
> If it were me, I would not wait for her to signal me, I would just start over and take her out very, very frequently. Can you afford (or are you able) to take a couple of days off entirely from work, so you can be with her for a long stretch of time? Don't allow her the opportunity to go in the house or crate. If you take her out and she doesn't go, then starts to go when you come back in, I would make a startling sound (not scary, maybe an Ehhh ehhh ehhh) and pick her up and run her back outside.
> 
> Good luck with the exercise. Is there a friend who would maybe meet you in the am's before work for a quick half hour or something, so you would feel safer? Maybe a couple laps around the park? It's a pain but to me, it's like having a baby. There is a lot that is exhausting and no one wants to get up early or in the middle of the night, but we do it because we have to and we love them.



Over Christmas and New Years I had a couple extra days off with her and she did great, no accidents. Once the bigger crate went up, all the problems started--maybe I'll try the divider again and push that point. She will be perfect once she is potty trained. She doesn't chew on anything she's not suppose to and she plays nice with the dogs and cats Exercise...looks like she's gonna force me to do something that is not in my vocabulary:crazy: I don't have a problem with it, but its very dark and safety is an issue. If she was a full grown shepherd that could do damage then I would have no problems by myself. Then I have to worry about coyotes that aren't afraid of dogs in my area. I guess my new best friend will be Pepper Spray:shocked:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Good for you for recognizing this! :thumbup: As I said, you've only been working on this for a month, which is really not that long. And it sounds like you've been doing all the right things.....except for having realistic expectations.
> 
> She's not going to be consistent about letting you know she needs to go outside until she's consistent about not having accidents in the house. As long as you're taking her out often enough she shouldn't be peeing in the house unless she hasn't quite gotten it that she's not supposed to. And until she knows that she's not supposed to pee in the house, how would she know that she she has to alert you to take her to pee outside?
> 
> My puppies always seemed to learn where TO potty before they learned where NOT to. I could take them out, say "go potty", and they'd do it right on cue. It would be easy to think that they had it all figured out, except that there was still the occasional accident in the house for awhile after that. So they have to learn YES, pee here, (outside) NO, don't pee there (in the house), and then, how to alert you that they need to go outside.



My problem is realistic expectations and patience are butting heads:smirk: I know I can't compare two different dogs and I do. I dreaded getting a puppy with my golden retriever and he trained so easy, so I got cocky. Then along comes my Robyn who is quite the spitfire...It doesn't matter I love her so I will get it right and have myself a wonderful dog that I will look at one day and be proud of.....I wish that one day could be tomorrow..just kidding I know that its all about what you put into them!!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Oh and did I mention that when she does have an accident in the house outside of her crate she runs and hides...so she knows and how can I be mad at a dog that hides because they know they are bad?


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Are you sure she "knows" or is she running from your body language? You'd be surprised at the subtleties she can pick up, that you don't even realize you're sending.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> Are you sure she "knows" or is she running from your body language? You'd be surprised at the subtleties she can pick up, that you don't even realize you're sending.



No she knows, as soon as I walked toward that area she ran behind the couch---I didn't even see the pee pee. I seen it after she ran, because I couldn't figure out why she ran. I have a picture of her hiding behind the couch but it won't let me upload it.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

llombardo said:


> So what do I do, continue on with the potty training as if she was 8 weeks just coming into my home?


Yes. How long it will take depends on how diligent you can be about preventing future accidents. We got Cassidy at 20 weeks old and she was housebroken in two days. I watched her like a hawk, and she only had 2 or 3 accidents total. We got her on a Saturday, and Monday she was in her garage pen and used the dog door to go outside and do her business. But she was old enough that she had pretty good control and could hold it longer.

Later, when she was maybe a year and a half old, I decided to put some bells on the doorknob and teach her to bump them with her nose to go outside because she would just sit there in front of the door and wait to be noticed rather than telling us she needed to go outside. If we were in the living room watching TV and couldn't see her she'd come sit in front of the TV and stare at us if we were taking too long to let her out. I ordered some bells online, they arrived on a Wednesday and I started teaching her how to use them that night after work. Friday, less than 48 hours later, she was ringing the bells to go out. Scary smart!

Dena (at 9 weeks old), took about a month. It would have been less, but she had a couple of periods in there where she didn't have an accident for a week or more and we relaxed our diligence. We could have easily prevented those if we had realized that she hadn't quite figured it all out yet, and watched her more carefully a few weeks longer. I only had to get up and take her out during the night 3 times, and then she would sleep until 5 or 6 AM. 

Keefer (at 9 weeks old) took about 2 months. He was always thirsty, and was a drinking and peeing MACHINE! :wild: He got me up at night once and sometimes even twice for awhile, can't remember exactly how long. If I pulled up the water earlier in the evening he'd whine because he was thirsty. If I let him a little water before bed he'd wake me up whining to go out.

Halo (at 10 weeks old) took forever to housebreak! Or at least it seemed that way, it was actually about 3 months. She was a much smaller puppy than they were, so maybe it was because her bladder was smaller and she needed to go more often. And when she needed to go, she needed to go NOW! One time she was whining early in the morning, right before my husband had to get up for work, about a half hour before I usually got up, and I asked him to take her out. He decided HE needed to pee first, and of course by the time he came back she had peed in her crate. Another morning I got up as soon as I heard her start to whine, tossed on my robe and quickly stepped into my slippers. I opened the crate and picked her up, but it was too late, she had just peed and it was everywhere. I tried to hold her away from me so I wouldn't get it all over me too, but her soggy paws were flailing about and I ended up with puppy pee fee in my face and my hair. Ewwwww. Good thing I always take a shower in the morning anyway!

Each puppy took longer to housebreak than the previous one - I used to joke that we were getting worse at it rather than better, lol!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

So my schedule yesterday...Outside every 3 hours, she asked twice throughout the whole day. She ate dinner at about 4:30 and had no water after 6. She pooped twice before bedtime, last poop at about 10:00pm and last pee at about 12:00. At 5:30 I find poop in her cage....not firm but not runny and all day her poop was firm--no problems. ?????????????? she didn't cry to go outside either:crazy:


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

Ugh, the puppy days. It's maddening sometimes.

I did the poopy parties. I would feed mine at the same time everyday. Spread their food out, 1/2 in morning, 1/2 at night. I would leave the food down for about 20 minutes, then put a leash on them. Took them outside and didn't say anything or even look at them until they pooped or peed. Once they did, I gave them a big celebration. I would take them out every 3 hours afterwards. No matter what. I used one word everytime we went out.....teetee. 

I think I even set my alarm clock for a couple of weeks during that time and would do it during the night. Over and over again. I always made those short celebrations though.

Of course, now if I say Tee-tee, they all run to the back door. Out of my 3 GSD's, my female did take the longest time.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

So today I let her out when I get up...she pees only because she already pooped overnight, then I feed her, wait 20 minutes or so and let her out again, she does nothing. She continues to hold it until about 9:30, my son lets her out before he goes to work..he gets home at about 4:30 and she manages to hold it all day??? I'm starting to think its some sort of anxiety of being in the cage at night when we are home that might be her problem...I think she might be working herself up...this is just a thought--I know German Shepherds are loyal dogs, maybe she wants to be near me at night?


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

Where is her crate? I have Knuckles' crate right next to my bed.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

her crate is in the next room but she can see me from it, my door is open. Since I've been home she has asked to go out twice....lets see what she can do


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Try her with the crate next to your bed. She *should* poop once per meal, so if she's eating twice a day that's two poops. Two poops between 4:30 PM and bedtime doesn't seem right, especially with one more before breakfast, and not the greatest consistency. Has she been checked for giardia or coccidia?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Try her with the crate next to your bed. She *should* poop once per meal, so if she's eating twice a day that's two poops. Two poops between 4:30 PM and bedtime doesn't seem right, especially with one more before breakfast, and not the greatest consistency. Has she been checked for giardia or coccidia?


I do not have room for her crate in my room. She just had a complete check up and was spayed. Everything is fine medically. She has come around a little bit the last couple days. She is asking more to go out. The problem with the pee is that she is very active so of course puppies have to go if they play. As far as the poop goes, she goes about 3-4 times a day...she has a habit of double pooping. The first poop is firm and second is looser(not runny or mushy, just looser) In the morning she pees/poops first thing, eats, then usually poops again. She does hold it during the day, when no one is home. I'm working with her as much as possible because she is adorable and I can't be mad at her for more then 5 seconds.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Update....since she has been spayed and its only been about 5 days, she hasn't had an accident(knock on wood) and she is asking to go out consistently..she hasn't figured out a way to get my attention when she has to go..usually its a very small whimper, but we are working on that I have a feeling she is going to be worth all of my hard work!!!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Today she came and jumped in my lap, started crying looking at the door...then we went out and she peed and went poo-poo....its starting to come together:hug:


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