# Did we choose the right puppy?



## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

Yesterday, my husband and I selected a German Shepherd puppy after observing a litter for about 30 minutes. Our goal was to select a puppy that will develop protective instincts as it grows. I read somewhere to always pick the alpha. Two of the puppies stood out from the rest because when playing, they seemed to be the strongest. One of the strongest puppies ended up attacking the other and it got pretty loud like they were fighting for position of puppy pack leader instead of playing. The puppy that attacked ended up running to the other side of the pen. The other strong puppy did not give chase. We chose the puppy that we think won but did not give chase. Now I'm wondering if we misinterpreted which was the alpha. Should we have picked the one that started the fight instead?


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## Lucy Dog

Your breeder should be the one picking out the right puppy for you. You should not be the one deciding. 

Who's the breeder if you don't mind me asking?


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## onyx'girl

Welcome Mr & Mrs Kirkley,
Yes, the breeder should be choosing the puppy for you as the breeder has observed them from birth. Alpha, pack leader...do you watch much Cesar?
Do you think you will be able to handle the strongest puppy of the litter? 
Most well bred GSD's will have natural protective instinct.


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## JakodaCD OA

I agree with the above, the breeder should be picking out a puppy suitable for your lifestyle and level of experience.

If you've never owned a gsd before, the one you picked may be alotta dog for a first time owner.


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## Gretchen

I think this was an odd way to choose a puppy. But then again the way we picked our puppy was not much better. We wanted a dog that would love us, so my daughter chose the puppy that chose to interact with her the most.

Having the breeder choose is also good. We know of a client who is elderly, but in great shape that wanted a GSD after his old one died. It seemed the breeder picked out an excellent dog for him; one that was more mellow and friendly compared to other dogs I've seen from his litters.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

I forgot the breeder's name but I'll find out when I pick up the puppy and the AKC paperwork tomorrow. She and her husband live about 70 miles away from us. She said she has been breeding for years and she is inspected every year. The puppies were priced at under $500 so I doubt she's in it for the money. They are farmers who live in a very nice home. The sire of this litter came from a litter of puppies bred for search and rescue work. I didn't know some breeders pick out the puppies. Anyway, does it sound like we picked the right one or did we likely misinterpret?


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## shepherdmom

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> I forgot to ask her name but I'll find out when I pick up the puppy and the AKC paperwork tomorrow. She and her husband live about 70 miles away from us. She said she has been breeding for years and she is inspected every year. The puppies were priced at under $500 so I doubt she's in it for the money. They are farmers who live in a very nice home. The sire of this litter came from a litter of puppies bred for search and rescue work. I didn't know some breeders pick out the puppies. Anyway, does it sound like we picked the right one or did we likely misinterpret?


Agressive doesn't mean protective. I would not have picked one involved in the fight at all.


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## JakodaCD OA

Did you ask if the parents had any health testing done and if so, what? 

"Most" reputable breeders will pick a puppy suitable for the home they are going to. 

Honestly, no it doesn't sound like you picked the right puppy but guess you'll find out if you did in a few months


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## Gretchen

As someone else mentioned, GSD are protective, it's part of their DNA. You should tell the breeder about your experience and lifestyle and ask their recommendations. Or find a breeder that uses dogs known to be good at protection. Our breeder also does training and specialized in police and protection. Sorry I can't answer your question if you picked the "right" one. The price for your dog about 1/2 price for most pure bred GSD's. I hope the breeders are reliable.


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## Jax08

how was the puppy with recovering from loud noises? At that age, they aren't being aggressive they are just being puppies. They learn bite inhibition from each other. Carolina and Dennis just posted a video of a couple of tests
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/177347-f-litter-puppy-tests.html

You can do a google search on puppy temperament testing.

Like Jane asked - are you capable of properly training the strongest personality in the litter? Is that really what you want? A confident puppy doesn't necessarily have to be the "alpha" of the litter. There could be more than one that would be appropriate choices.

You don't have him yet, correct? I would talk to the "breeder" and ask her opinion if you are having second thoughts. She should know her puppies better than anyone. Nobody here can really give you a good answer without observing the puppies in person.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

This was our first time picking out a young puppy so we don't know that much about it. I don't want a vicious dog, just a protective one. Both puppies were friendly toward us when we picked them up. The litter will be 8 weeks old Saturday. What age do German Shepherds start showing protective instincts?


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## Gretchen

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> This was our first time picking out a young puppy so we don't know that much about it. I don't want a vicious dog, just a protective one. Both puppies were friendly toward us when we picked them up. The litter will be 8 weeks old Saturday. What age do German Shepherds start showing protective instincts?


Our dog definitely became protective as she hit the adolescent stage, about 10 months old. She was assertive the first 5 minutes she came home at 8 weeks old. Wow, what a bark she had and still has.


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## JakodaCD OA

Not all german shepherds are going to end up 'protective'. 
It's also something that to be truly 'trained' to be protective well they have to be 'trained', be able to discern good from evil. 

With that, I would forget about wanting a dog to be protective, they are only 8 weeks old and no one can predict the future or how an 8 week old puppy will eventually turn out (tho reputable breeders can pretty well peg their puppies).

So what I'm suggesting is, if you get this puppy, the biggest thing you can do for yourselves and this puppy is, raise him to be a wonderful ambassador of the breed. Which entails socializing and taking him to obedience classes.

These dogs do not train themselves, you will get out of them what you put into them. 

Honestly, and don't take this as a criticism, it sounds like you have not done your homework and really researched into owning a german shepherd. They can be the best dog you will ever own or your worst nightmare. 

Again, are the parents ofa'd? (hips and elbows?) Did you meet the parents? Do you realize german shepherds have alot of health issues and are you prepared and able to spend ALOT of money should a serious health issue arise?

I am not telling you to "not" get a german shepherd puppy, I am just saying there's more to owning one of these dogs than wanting one who will 'protect' you. Most of them will turn tail and run, as in self preservation.

Just something to think about


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

Jax08 said:


> how was the puppy with recovering from loud noises?
> 
> I don't know about loud noises. I do know she started whining when the breeder took her inside to put a paper collar on her with my name on it. So did the 2 puppies the breeder put in a separate pen because they were selected before I showed up. The puppy siblings seem very attached to each other. Both female puppies were very friendly and licked us when we picked them up.
> 
> You don't have him yet, correct? I would talk to the "breeder" and ask her opinion if you are having second thoughts. She should know her puppies better than anyone. Nobody here can really give you a good answer without observing the puppies in person.


I already paid in full and she said something about having the paperwork ready when we pick the puppy up tomorrow. I'm not sure if the paperwork is different on each puppy.


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## Catu

I would say you picked the wrong breeder 

That said, given you already have the pup and neither you or the breeder sound that knowledgeable I'd just focus in enjoying the pup, loving him and if protections instincts are there, they will show when he grows older without much worrying about if you did the right pick, because it was a gamble from the beginning anyway.


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## BowWowMeow

What are the parents like?


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## Jax08

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> *I already paid in full and she said something about having the paperwork ready when we pick the puppy up tomorrow.* I'm not sure if the paperwork is different on each puppy.


in that case, do your research on land sharks, training and socializing. Find a good positive based trainer in your area and enjoy your new puppy!


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

Years ago, I had experience with 2 German Shepherd mixes. One died and the other disappeared. The first was a Shepherd/**** Hound mix I got when she was about a year old. She successfully tracked and found a lost kitten. She was very protective. She always barked when someone knocked. She broke up wrestling matches between 2 people by barking and if that didn't work grabbing an arm between her teeth without biting down. She was the perfect dog and I grieved for a long time when she died. The second was an older puppy that was a Shepherd/Chow mix. She always barked when she saw strangers but I'm not sure if she would've attacked to protect. One day she was gone. She either jumped the fence or someone stole her. Anyway, I do have experience with watch dogs but this is my first purebred German Shepherd and the first time I've chosen a small puppy from a litter which is why I didn't really know what I was doing.


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## Catu

Jax08 said:


> in that case, do your research on land sharks, training and socializing. Find a good positive based trainer in your area and enjoy your new puppy!


I'm not that sure... he picked what looked the stronger pup on that particular litter, but could be a quite normal puppy in other contexts, with other puppies of his same age, fighting for a different resource. Without knowing the genetic background there is really nothing that can be said. Surely not based in one moment.

I'd just try avoid putting labels in a poor 8 weeks old pup to happened to win a fight, like if he has a super strong dog that will become aggressive over time. I see too often people hanging tags on puppies because of anecdotes and later seeing realized their own-made prophecies.


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## Emoore

Catu said:


> I would say you picked the wrong breeder
> 
> That said, given you already have the pup and neither you or the breeder sound that knowledgeable I'd just focus in enjoying the pup, loving him and if protections instincts are there, they will show when he grows older without much worrying about if you did the right pick, because it was a gamble from the beginning anyway.


I second all of this.

By the way, the ones who charge $500 and less often are in it for the money, because if you invest close to zero and charge $400 a pop for a litter of 10. . . . you do the math. Meanwhile the ones who charge more are out training, titling, certifying hips and elbows, testing for heritable diseases, testing for temperament, studying bloodlines, apprenticing with more knowledgeable breeders, buying better breeding stock from Germany and having them shipped. . . . and not making much at all.


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## sparra

shepherdmom said:


> Agressive doesn't mean protective. I would not have picked one involved in the fight at all.[/QUOTE
> 
> 8 week old puppies having a scrap is not aggression......it is puppies being puppies.
> 
> OP....sounds like you have this puppy now so just try to relax and enjoy. Don't convice yourself you have chosen the wrong one or you will be waiting for things to go wrong and treading on eggshells. Enroll in a puppy class to start your journey and just enjoy this little fluff ball. I agree with catu.....don't label her.....just love her.


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## onyx'girl

A friend of mine has asked me to help him find a GSD puppy or young dog. He was doing some searching on his own and found out how pricey the breed is but thought I could help him find a good deal. 
I encouraged him to either go with a rescue, less expensive GSD that has already been temperament tested or save to support a good breeder.
I couldn't ever suggest to him to buy from a breeder who didn't health test or know how to match a pedigree even though the price is much less. There are enough out there, he surely wouldn't need my help in finding one of those!

He has young grand kids and foster children and needs a safe dog for them to be around. He decided to wait, save and go with a good breeder, and this is not going to be a sport dog, just a loved, spoiled family member.
Mr & Mrs. K, did you see this sticky: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

BowWowMeow said:


> What are the parents like?


Both parents were on site. I didn't get that close to the dam. She was loudly barking at us behind a fence. The sire didn't bark at us because he was brought to us on a leash and the owner was right there. The breeder's husband said the sire was friendly as long as one of them was there. The sire came from a litter bred for search and rescue. I did ask the breeder about protective instincts and she said she thought the puppies would bark at strangers when they grew up because both parents do. Thanks to everyone for your responses. I hope the German Shepherd puppy we picked develops a protective instinct but I do know she's adorable and licked both of us when we picked her up. She will get plenty of attention from both of us plus she will have our other puppy we rescued from a shelter who also misses his siblings to play with.


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## middleofnowhere

Two puppies? I think looking on the internet for sites like this was something you thought of after you paid for the pup...


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## Emoore

Mr. & Mrs. Kirkley. . . . . is there any way to back out of buying this puppy? There are so very many red flags I don't know where to begin. It would be to your advantage to let this one pass and educate yourself a bit more before trying again.


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## BowWowMeow

I would not buy from someone whose dogs were so "protective" that I couldn't get near them. That's a huge red flag. I adopted a dog like that (as an adult) and he was very difficult to handle. I loved him very much but I would not knowingly choose a dog like that. In fact, I had to work with him for YEARS to get him to stop trying to attack anyone who came into his territory. 

And you are going to be raising two puppies? I hope you've done your homework on what that entails...


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## DTS

the parents we bought my pup from were exactly like the almost to the T. the dad was barking agressively through the fence and the mom was let out and very friendly.. our pup ended up becoming fear agressive.. some people would call being "protective" because she would bark at people... except she would bark at people who came over, at the store, in obedience class. by 7 months we couldnt take her in public. 1 year and over $500 dollars worth of training and 100s of hours put into training we can go into public but sometimes she will bark if people approach and want to pet and she just turned 2 yesterday so it has been a long road from 4 months.
and even though she barks at home, she wouldnt protect. 
just something to think about


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## chelle

Barking does not equal protection. Plenty of dogs will bark. A fearful dog will bark exceedingly well.  Is that enough for you? That it will bark at strangers? If so, you're fine. If you want actual protection, it will require more work on your part. 

I also chose one of the more rambunctious of the litter. Get ready, hold on, strap yourself in. I love my boy, but he's high spirited and high energy. (But he also has great focus and intensity on what he's doing, so that is good in training aspects.) I thought that was great... but some days he really exhausts me now.  He also had fear issues we've had to work on. Don't mistake barking for protection, when in fact, it can be nothing more than fear problems. They take some fairly intense work to make progress on.


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## bocron

If someone is inspected every year, then generally they are producing enough pups to need to be inspected. At least around here. You don't state where you are, so who knows. Charging that little doesn't bode well either, sorry. 
At this point, if you're not willing to lose the money and do some research into finding another breeder then you need to learn as much as you can about responsibly raising, training and above all socializing a GSD. 
First off, a puppy should not be expected to be protective. Not anymore than you should expect a human child to be an Olympic boxer. The potential is there, but you need to let the puppy be a puppy and feel secure in it's surroundings. My current girl is 14mos old, she has recently starting barking at the doorbell, but I don't expect her to back it up at this age, she is just testing her grownup voice. She barks, but I make sure to get her to the door to meet who is there and tell her to behave. She is fine with that and I'm not worried about her randomly biting a pizza guy or something.
Socialize, socialize, socialize!!!! This cannot be stressed enough. A well socialized pup becomes a confident, knowledgeable adult that can tell the difference between a scary person vs a different person. (a different person could be someone who is handicapped or older or a silly active kid) A secluded pup thinks everything is scary and becomes a liability that will only protect itself out of fear. 
Look up Dr. Ian Dunbar and download his free book on puppy raising, it should help get you started.
Free Downloads | Dog Star Daily


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## Jack's Dad

I am not buying it and I don't mean the puppy.


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## bocron

Jack's Dad said:


> I am not buying it and I don't mean the puppy.


You suspect a troll, perhaps?


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## onyx'girl

Happens every day Andy...look at all the threads that have the same scenario, just a month or two down the road...my puppy won't stop biting, my 4 month old is aggressive, my puppy submissively pees, my puppy yadayadyada. My 8 month old bit my husband protecting me, my 18 month old keeps going after other dogs and people. I have to rehome my dog. It is never ending.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

onyx'girl said:


> Happens every day Andy...look at all the threads that have the same scenario, just a month or two down the road...my puppy won't stop biting, my 4 month old is aggressive, my puppy submissively pees, my puppy yadayadyada. My 8 month old bit my husband protecting me, my 18 month old keeps going after other dogs and people. I have to rehome my dog. It is never ending.


Isn't discussion and questions about German Shepherds the purpose of a German Shepherd forum? I admit I didn't know anything about choosing a young puppy, but as I said before I do have experience with watch dogs.


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## Catu

onyx'girl said:


> Happens every day Andy...look at all the threads that have the same scenario, just a month or two down the road...my puppy won't stop biting, my 4 month old is aggressive, my puppy submissively pees, my puppy yadayadyada. My 8 month old bit my husband protecting me, my 18 month old keeps going after other dogs and people. I have to rehome my dog. It is never ending.


And we wish all of those were trolls... :rolleyes2:


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## RocketDog

Often what people deem a good "watch dog" is really a fearful or fear-aggressive dog. A truly confident dog, who _would _protect, many times doesn't feel the need to bark ferociously at something. Possibly a warning bark, but mostly they just stand their ground. 

Please do some reading--read some well-thought of books, Patricia McConnell is an author that comes to mind-- and PLEASE take your puppy to a GOOD obedience trainer. Preferably several classes, starting as early as your vet oks it.


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## chelle

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Isn't discussion and questions about German Shepherds the purpose of a German Shepherd forum? I admit I didn't know anything about choosing a young puppy, but as I said before I do have experience with watch dogs.


Yes, yes it is. With all due respect, what do you mean by "experience with watch dogs?" Simply curious on my part. A "watch dog" could be defined in so many ways. My mini American Eskimo might be defined as a watch dog by some, because she barks when someone arrives. However, she's older and almost blind, so protection is out. Even in her prime, she wouldn't have "guarded" or "protected." Only barked. She wasn't trained to do that, she just did. My Bailey will bark plenty when a stranger pulls up the drive, but if they approach him, his tail might wag right off his butt. Protection dog? NOT! :laugh:


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## chelle

Catu said:


> And we wish all of those were trolls... :rolleyes2:


But most aren't... so ... keep your chin up and be nice.  I remember a day having my backside handed to me and I didn't run off, but if I didn't want help as much as I did, I would have.



RocketDog said:


> Often what people deem a good "watch dog" is really a fearful or fear-aggressive dog. A truly confident dog, who _would _protect, many times doesn't feel the need to bark ferociously at something. Possibly a warning bark, but mostly they just stand their ground.
> 
> Please do some reading--read some well-thought of books, Patricia McConnell is an author that comes to mind-- and PLEASE take your puppy to a GOOD obedience trainer. Preferably several classes, starting as early as your vet oks it.


Very well put. Something I didn't understand for a time. But exceedingly important to understand.! Makes all the difference in the world in your training approaches. I admit I very much misinterpreted this when my dog was young. 

OP, don't be turned off or angry by what you're getting here. It is valuable advice, even if it might come across a bit harsh. Been there, done that, we have survived. :laugh:


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## TaZoR

I had a choice of 3 and I questioned my decision until I got him home. I'm sure your pup will be fine. They are naturally loyal, bonded and protective of their owners. To what degree will largely lie on your socialization and training. A new pup should be confident but not aggressive, not fearful and curious. 

Good luck and welcome!

I will expect pics of your puppy soon


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## Jack's Dad

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Isn't discussion and questions about German Shepherds the purpose of a German Shepherd forum? I admit I didn't know anything about choosing a young puppy, but as I said before I do have experience with watch dogs.


Yes the forum is for asking questions.

There will be nice people to answer those questions.

When someones first post is after the fact then maybe you can understand why it is puzzling.

You already have "now' 2 puppies and are wondering if you picked
the right one from the breeder. Will it be protective etc...

If people really want help why not ask beforehand.

There are very knowledgable people who could have steered you in the right direction

It's a little like saying I just bought and paid for a new Chevy does anyone think I should have purchased the Toyota?

It is frustrating.


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## onyx'girl

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Isn't discussion and questions about German Shepherds the purpose of a German Shepherd forum? I admit I didn't know anything about choosing a young puppy, but as I said before I do have experience with watch dogs.


Yes, and I hope you stay around and learn more about the breed. A 'watch'dog is a dog that is left in the yard to alert? I don't know.
If there is any way possible you can get out of this sale, please do. And then read the threads here. My post was about the temperamental issues that occur when breeders take shortcuts. $500 for a pup is making money when the breeder isn't doing health tests or training to be sure their dogs are breedworthy. Also letting a stranger pick out one of their pups without having input is a huge red flag. I doubt any of the breeders who are on this board would allow that.
I have two dogs from not so great breeders, so I'm not judging, just warning. 
This forum helped me way back when, and I'm still learning because my two dogs have to be managed daily due to health and temperament issues.

I then bought a dog from a breeder that did the right things and boy, he is a totally different dog than the others, amazingly wonderful, biddable and a joy to train take places and work with. It pays to wait, research and pay to support a good breeder. 
Please stay around here and learn more, then you'll find the right breeder or rescue to get a companion from.


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## onyx'girl

Quotes:
*Originally Posted by Catu 
And we wish all of those were trolls...*

_But most aren't... so ... keep your chin up and be nice. I remember a day having my backside handed to me and I didn't run off, but if I didn't want help as much as I did, I would have._

I think Catu was posting that it would be great if these issues were just from trolls trying getting a rise out of us, but sadly it is reality, not imagination on a troll looking for drama.


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## llombardo

A short true story....a man I know has a female shepherd that is about 14 months and a male shepherd that is 6 months, he's at work, his wife is home alone with two kids and a crazy man decides that he wants to break into the house. The female decides thats not happening and tackles the intruder and pins him until the police arrive. This dog had no training whatsoever to attack, hold, etc. Not a mark on the intruder but her family is safe. I have seen dogs that generally would not be considered protection dogs go above and beyond to protect their owners from harm because of the love, respect, and bond they have with them. My dog comes from parents that are guard dogs at a tire shop, I haven't seen them nor do I know much about them(I'm considering trying to go and see them)--I only know this info from the guy that actually got her from the tire shop, so I'm her 2nd home. She has proven to be a remarkable dog. At six months she is on her 3rd obedience class and has been the best behaved and most loveable in all three classes. She loves kids, people, dogs, cats, and rabbits. Not a day goes by that I don't adore her even more then the day before She shows true potential in obedience and agility. She doesn't chew anything except for her toys, she doesn't bite people(playing or otherwise), she stays right at my side for walks and her focus on me is unbelievable. She is a happy go lucky dog that is confident, not shy, and not fearful(unless your a shop vac) She is an all around GOOD GIRL and I wouldn't trade her for anything. Any and all work that I put into her shows and shows big time.


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## msvette2u

> It's a little like saying I just bought and paid for a new Chevy does anyone think I should have purchased the Toyota?
> 
> It is frustrating.


This is it, exactly. So many come on here having already placed the deposit or even bought/brought home the dog.

AKC has a tool just for this kind of thing. You can find a plethora of info on the 'net. 
"Which dog breed is right for me".

Raising two puppies together is never a good idea unless you have all day to devote to training them.


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## sparra

msvette2u said:


> Raising two puppies together is never a good idea unless you have all day to devote to training them.


Two puppies?? Have I missed something......did she buy two puppies from this breeder??


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## Emoore

sparra said:


> Two puppies?? Have I missed something......did she buy two puppies from this breeder??


Nope, one from the breeder, one from the shelter.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

bocron said:


> You suspect a troll, perhaps?


We're not trolls. I apologize if we came across that way. If I had discovered this forum before viewing the puppies I would've asked for advice beforehand. I found this forum after picking a puppy. At the time, the only info I had was something I saw online saying the best way to pick a puppy that will grow up to be protective is to observe the litter and pick an alpha. I wasn't sure if the AKC registration application was different for each particular puppy before it was sent in (I know it is after) since this is my first purebred and I wanted to ask some experienced German Shepherd owners if based on what I observed, I picked the right puppy. From a couple of the responses I got, I think it's safe to assume the registration applications are different so switching to a different puppy if I did pick the wrong one is not an option. I do know the puppy we picked is adorable, healthy looking, and friendly to both of us. I also know my puppy's back is straight instead of that extreme slope that causes hip problems.


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## sparra

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> plus she will have our other puppy we rescued from a shelter who also misses his siblings to play with.


Oh....I see.....where was that info in the OP....


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## Lucy Dog

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> I also know my puppy's back is straight instead of that extreme slope that causes hip problems.


An angulated or sloped back doesn't cause bad hips. That's another common misconception you hear a lot that's just not true.

Bad hips are caused by.... bad hips, if that makes sense.


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## Emoore

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> I also know my puppy's back is straight instead of that extreme slope that causes hip problems.


I think this thread has now hit every major myth in the book about GSDs. That may be one reason some people are thinking you're a troll.

The slope in the back and the dysplasia in the hips are two totally different things. There is no way to tell by looking at a dog if it has hip dysplasia. A dog can have a sloped topline and have perfect hips; another dog can have a straight topline and have horrible hips. That's why it's so important for anyone who breeds German Shepherds to test their breeding stock for hip dysplasia-- because you cannot tell by looking and it is so common in our breed. 

I hope your breeder didn't try to sell you a line about "straight-backed" dogs having good hips, so they don't need to test.


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## msvette2u

> I also know my puppy's back is straight instead of that extreme slope that causes hip problems.


Well you didn't do a lot of research, did you? 

BTW, any breed of dog can be protective of a home. Some of the best watch dogs are small, commonly known "ankle biters" (Dachshunds, Chihuahuas, Pomeranians) who won't let anyone slip past them without raising a ruckus.

What breed of dog is your other puppy?



> I think this thread has now hit every major myth in the book about GSDs. That may be one reason some people are thinking you're a troll.


Now I'm even starting to think it.


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## bocron

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> I wasn't sure if the AKC registration application was different for each particular puppy before it was sent in (I know it is after) since this is my first purebred and I wanted to ask some experienced German Shepherd owners if based on what I observed, I picked the right puppy. From a couple of the responses I got, I think it's safe to assume the registration applications are different so switching to a different puppy if I did pick the wrong one is not an option.


As long as you stick with the same sex and the pup isn't already microchipped it doesn't matter. When you have a litter of pups you tell the AKC what you had and they send you a stack of blank registrations based on the sexes (2 males, 3 females, whatever). Each has the parent's and breeders info and should be blank for the buyer to fill in the pup's name and the buyer's name and address when they get the puppy. Unless the breeder already registered each pup, then you get papers with the name already registered and you have to re-register it to your name. Either way, the breeder should have the paperwork for every puppy still on the premises so it shouldn't matter if you change your mind when you get there. (Unless all other pups are sold or spoken for).



Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> I do know the puppy we picked is adorable, healthy looking, and friendly to both of us. I also know my puppy's back is straight instead of that extreme slope that causes hip problems.


No 7 week old puppy should or would have a noticeable "slope". Even those that end up with a very pronounced roach back as an adult usually have a classic puppy body at that age. I'd be more likely to make sure the parents had their hips (and elbows) certified and not try to determine later hip issues on the look at this point.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

llombardo said:


> A short true story....a man I know has a female shepherd that is about 14 months and a male shepherd that is 6 months, he's at work, his wife is home alone with two kids and a crazy man decides that he wants to break into the house. The female decides thats not happening and tackles the intruder and pins him until the police arrive. This dog had no training whatsoever to attack, hold, etc. Not a mark on the intruder but her family is safe. I have seen dogs that generally would not be considered protection dogs go above and beyond to protect their owners from harm because of the love, respect, and bond they have with them. My dog comes from parents that are guard dogs at a tire shop, I haven't seen them nor do I know much about them(I'm considering trying to go and see them)--I only know this info from the guy that actually got her from the tire shop, so I'm her 2nd home. She has proven to be a remarkable dog. At six months she is on her 3rd obedience class and has been the best behaved and most loveable in all three classes. She loves kids, people, dogs, cats, and rabbits. Not a day goes by that I don't adore her even more then the day before She shows true potential in obedience and agility. She doesn't chew anything except for her toys, she doesn't bite people(playing or otherwise), she stays right at my side for walks and her focus on me is unbelievable. She is a happy go lucky dog that is confident, not shy, and not fearful(unless your a shop vac) She is an all around GOOD GIRL and I wouldn't trade her for anything. Any and all work that I put into her shows and shows big time.


One of the protective shepherd mix dogs I had years ago tried to attack vacuums (shop or otherwise) and fireworks. Apparently she thought they were a threat. It was hilarious. Very impressive of that female German Shepherd taking that intruder down and holding him until the police arrived. I like the idea of dogs scaring intruders and pinning without biting.


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## shepherdmom

sparra said:


> shepherdmom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8 week old puppies having a scrap is not aggression......it is puppies being puppies.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I realize that. I should have explained further. I would pick the puppy that was being curious about me. While the others were busy scrapping or paying attention to each other there is always the curious one who wants to come up and see who you are. That is the one that goes home with us.
Click to expand...


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## NancyJ

Well we can play nice or we can not play nice. I would rather risk giving good advice to someone who may be trolling than to chase off someone new with a new puppy who could really use some insights as they go through the various stages with the puppy.

To the OP - go to the puppy section of the forum as there are a lot of good threads on raising, feeding, and traning the puppy. Do everything possible to give her a great start in life and it will pay off for both of you. Do NOT worry about her becoming protective. She either will or won't but you want right now for her to think all people are GOOD and let her mature into the dog she will be.


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## chelle

onyx'girl said:


> Quotes:
> *Originally Posted by Catu *
> *And we wish all of those were trolls...*
> 
> _But most aren't... so ... keep your chin up and be nice. I remember a day having my backside handed to me and I didn't run off, but if I didn't want help as much as I did, I would have._
> 
> I think Catu was posting that it would be great if these issues were just from trolls trying getting a rise out of us, but sadly it is reality, not imagination on a troll looking for drama.


I understand. Totally understand. I was more coming from a point of many posters started out like myself...  with a lot of misconceptions and lack of understanding.. but stuck around and learned a lot. The knowledgable people gave me good guidance, while they were probably holding their tongues at times and wanting to tell me I was an idiot. Ok, some said I was an idiot.  But the others stuck it out. I benefited... my dog benefited... all good in the end, no matter how depressing it was along the way.



sparra said:


> Two puppies?? Have I missed something......did she buy two puppies from this breeder??


I totally missed the second pup. Huh? How did I miss a second puppers? <<scratches head>>



Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> One of the protective shepherd mix dogs I had years ago tried to attack vacuums (shop or otherwise) and fireworks. Apparently she thought they were a threat. It was hilarious. Very impressive of that female German Shepherd taking that intruder down and holding him until the police arrived. I like the idea of dogs scaring intruders and pinning without biting.


As long as you can reassure that you don't use laser pointers with your dogs, I am going to try to stick with this.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

shepherdmom said:


> sparra said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would pick the puppy that was being curious about me. While the others were busy scrapping or paying attention to each other there is always the curious one who wants to come up and see who you are. That is the one that goes home with us.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the puppy we ended up picking was one of the most curious about us and she and one other sibling were the first to approach us.
Click to expand...


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## rshkr

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> I also know my puppy's back is straight instead of that extreme slope that causes hip problems.


PMSL. :rofl:


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## chelle

OP, I'm honestly concerned about your expectations of this pup to be "protective."

I'm a little worried you'll misconstrue protectiveness vs fearful reactions. (I did at first.)

Can you address some of the questions in the above posts? I totally missed that you have another puppy? Can you clear that up? It'll make a difference in the advice you get.!~


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

Sounds like I might be wrong about the hip thing. Of course I'm an idiot compared to people on here who have raised young purebred German Shepherd puppies. That's why I'm here. To learn. I'm glad I found this forum.


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## Lucy Dog

I don't anyone thinks you're an idiot. You're just not experienced... big difference. We all need to start somewhere.

And I'd like to echo everyone's advice... pass on this puppy if possible, even if you have to take the money loss. Learn the breed and what to look for in responsible breeders and then start looking again.


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## DharmasMom

Mr&Mrs Kirkley, it appears you have a LOT to learn about this puppy. PLEASE start doing your research now. You have already been advised to go to the puppy section. There is TONS of good advice there, a lot of which you are going to need.


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## Chance&Reno

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> We're not trolls. I apologize if we came across that way. If I had discovered this forum before viewing the puppies I would've asked for advice beforehand. I found this forum after picking a puppy. At the time, the only info I had was something I saw online saying the best way to pick a puppy that will grow up to be protective is to observe the litter and pick an alpha. I wasn't sure if the AKC registration application was different for each particular puppy before it was sent in (I know it is after) since this is my first purebred and I wanted to ask some experienced German Shepherd owners if based on what I observed, I picked the right puppy. From a couple of the responses I got, I think it's safe to assume the registration applications are different so switching to a different puppy if I did pick the wrong one is not an option. I do know the puppy we picked is adorable, healthy looking, and friendly to both of us. I also know my puppy's back is straight instead of that extreme slope that causes hip problems.


WHYYYYYYY is it that the only thing that you care about is that the puppy protects you? What about it becoming a family member? What about socialization? What about enjoying the dog as a companion? What is with all this "protection", "watch dog", "protection", "watch dog"? 

**** comment removed by Admin**


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## rshkr

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Of course I'm an idiot compared to people on here who have raised young purebred German Shepherd puppies. That's why I'm here. To learn. I'm glad I found this forum.


not really, at least you have owned dogs before, i haven't.
the "roach back" descriptions always makes me luff.


plenty of info in the databse, lotsa knowledge stored, use the "Search" function to look up info.


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## Catu

Calm down people! I know everyone mean well, but sounding snotty doesn't help the OP nor the puppy.


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## Verivus

OP you are very brave. My pup's parents were both a-normal hips and he still ended up with severe bilateral hip dysplasia. With his other health issues I am in the hole by a couple thousand (which is a lot when you only make barely above minimum wage) and I haven't even gotten his left hip done yet. Meanwhile you are buying a puppy whose parents have no hip ratings or any proof of working ability.  Best of luck to you.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

chelle said:


> OP, I'm honestly concerned about your expectations of this pup to be "protective."
> 
> I'm a little worried you'll misconstrue protectiveness vs fearful reactions. (I did at first.)
> 
> Can you address some of the questions in the above posts? I totally missed that you have another puppy? Can you clear that up? It'll make a difference in the advice you get.!~


Yes we have another puppy. He was in a pen with his siblings (so he gets along with other puppies) at an animal shelter and we chose him to rescue. The German Shepherd puppies seem very attached to each other and from what I saw whined a lot when separated from the group. Hopefully having another puppy to play with will make the transition easier. 

I don't expect a young puppy to be protective, especially when puppies aren't kept with the mother to learn how. I have seen some fairly young puppies that were though because they learned by watching their mother. An old friend of mine once had a dog with a litter of puppies. He wasn't a breeder. Some male dog got to his female so the whole thing was an accident. Anyway, she was protective and whenever someone knocked, she along with her puppies all ran to the door barking. According to someone who took one of the puppies, that puppy was always a good watch dog. If only breeders would do that. A few months ago, my husband and I had our cars broken into. If we had owned a watchdog, barking would've probably prevented the whole thing. I know there's no guarantee either of our puppies will bark when they grow up if they hear something outside but I can always hope.


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## msvette2u

> The German Shepherd puppies seem very attached to each other and from what I saw whined a lot when separated from the group. Hopefully having another puppy to play with will make the transition easier.


No, puppies do that because it's part of growing up and moving on. It's normal. I would not want my new puppy to bond with another dog before he bonded to me. Part of growing up (at 8 weeks) and moving on is learning to be independent! That's the wrong mentality to have, that is, to want to give it a "buddy" so it's not lonely. How will the puppy ever learn to soothe itself?



> I don't expect a young puppy to be protective, especially when puppies aren't kept with the mother to learn how. I have seen some fairly young puppies that were though because they learned by watching their mother.


 This is so far off base, it's scary.
You have a mama dog who will bark because she doesn't know someone, that's not protection. It's probably protectiveness - over her litter, not her home - and could quite possibly be fear-based as well.
And that's what the puppies are going to learn. I don't care if they bark or what, they are not being protective. They are being afraid because mama's barking and they do not know why.

Being protective takes more, _much more,_ than barking, or "running to the door to bark". 
If you want a dog to bark when people come around (did you see my earlier post??) any breed will do. In fact the smaller breeds tend to excel in this area. Many many dogs, no matter what the breed, will "alert bark", when someone comes. My sheltie will alert bark. But she would lick them to death if they came in the door.


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## RocketDog

OP, two puppies is 3 x's the work: Socializing/training them together, and each one separately. Here is a GREAT site for you to check out: <> <> <> DIAMONDS in the RUFF - Training for Dogs & Their People<> <> <>

Here is some info from that site:
*Living with Littermates*
*Double Trouble?
** or Double Fun?* 
_*While raising two puppies together might seem like a fabulous idea, it isn't always.*_
_*Yes, they are never alone, they always have someone to play with, they have someone to wrestle with that isn't you, so you aren't the brunt of their puppy teeth as often. *_
_*But ... it's a lot more work and much more time consuming!*_
*








* photo of Stevie and Ben, courtesy of student Dan McCann​ *Double the poop, double the food bill, double the veterinary bills. *
What one doesn't get into, the other one will! While at first it might seem that they will keep each other entertained so you won't have to be so diligent, your job as supervising puppy parent is double duty! 
*They must learn how to be alone. Take extra pains to choreograph solo socialization opportunites for each pup alone.* 
Take turns providing separate car rides, separate trips to the park, separate rich socialization ops with people and other dogs, separate classes. It is essential that they learn to be comfortable being left behind and confident going out alone. These one-at-a-time outings will need to continue well beyond their first birthdays in order for them to establish a confident working relationship with you in each other's absence.
*Their bond is strong - to each other. 
*Unless you make it a point to become the most important thing in their lives, they may become more important to each other than to you. While you are at work, they spend the majority of every day with each other and only a tiny fragment with you. They are joined at the hip. They may become "dog-dogs" instead of "people-dogs".
*They choose each other, instead of you.* 
They may depend more on each other and less on you for interesting activities and playtime. When they are bored they will look to each other for entertainment, instead of to you. 
*You may think that you have to divide your time in half, when in actuality you will multiply your training time by THREE.* 
You must train each pup separately AND provide training sessions working them together so they learn to take turns and listen for commands directed at them specifically. You will have to be conscious that, no matter how hard you try not to, you may spend more training time with the "easier" puppy - so the behavior and training of the more difficult puppy deteriorates even further. They will also teach each other things you hoped neither pup would ever learn!
*They find confidence in each other instead of you.* 
If the higher status puppy takes off, the lower status pup will follow his lead. If one becomes alarmed the other will, also. If the higher status pup is supicious of people, the lower status pup may believe there is something to fear. If one is inclined to be a barker, and goes off at every little thing, it will trigger the other. Pack mentality abounds!
*Having each other doesn't teach them how to get along with dogs outside the family.*
Just because I had a brother doesn't mean I knew how to get along with new kids on the school playground. If one puppy is a bully and the other a softie, the bully may exercise this attitude with every dog he meets, while the softer pup may never learn self confidence - or her confidence may be false, relying on the other puppy to tell her if it's safe and allowing him to run interference. They need to meet other dogs on their own.
*Living in the shadow of their sibling, they never have a chance to grow into the great dog they could have been. *
You will need to be alert to each pup's strengths and weaknesses, their talents and interests and appreciate and cultivate the great dog they are meant to be.

*Some tips to make raising two puppies a successful adventure:*


The pups should sleep separately, in separate crates and eat from separate bowls, no trading allowed!
They should attend separate training classes - or failing that, work on opposite sides of the room.
They should go on separate outings, experience the world without the support of the other and learn to look to you for security and leadership.
Be the source of the "best" games and activities.
Establish a rich and deep relationship with each pup as an individual.


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## Jack's Dad

I think my first instinct was accurate.


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## chelle

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Yes we have another puppy. He was in a pen with his siblings (so he gets along with other puppies) at an animal shelter and we chose him to rescue. The German Shepherd puppies seem very attached to each other and from what I saw whined a lot when separated from the group. Hopefully having another puppy to play with will make the transition easier.
> 
> I don't expect a young puppy to be protective, *especially when puppies aren't kept with the mother to learn how*. *I have seen some fairly young puppies that were though because they learned by watching their mother*. An old friend of mine once had a dog with a litter of puppies. He wasn't a breeder. Some male dog got to his female so the whole thing was an accident. Anyway, she was protective and whenever someone knocked, she along with her puppies all ran to the door barking. According to someone who took one of the puppies, that puppy was always a good watch dog. If only breeders would do that. A few months ago, my husband and I had our cars broken into. If we had owned a watchdog, barking would've probably prevented the whole thing. *I know there's no guarantee either of our puppies will bark when they grow up if they hear something outside but I can always hope*.


Puppies do not learn to be "protective" from their mother. The dam will protect her puppies, but she is not "teaching" them to be protective. 

If only breeders would do.. what?

You come across as wanting a dog to do things for you, but you've never stated what YOU are willing to do for the dog?

Why don't you just invest in an alarm system and leave the dog business to those who really want to *work with* their dogs? Sorry if that comes across wrong, but you've never once stated what you want to *do* with the dog/s, other than make them your "protection system." This is not going to be well received around here considering the vast majority of this forum engages in some sort of training -- and takes it pretty seriously.

I've grown tired of the comments about "watchdog" and such. Please don't take this puppy. You have the wrong motives.


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## shepherdmom

msvette2u said:


> No, puppies do that because it's part of growing up and moving on. It's normal. I would not want my new puppy to bond with another dog before he bonded to me. Part of growing up (at 8 weeks) and moving on is learning to be independent! That's the wrong mentality to have, that is, to want to give it a "buddy" so it's not lonely. How will the puppy ever learn to soothe itself?


I've raised two puppies from the same litter together. The puppies do learn to be independent and "soothe themselves" they also will bond with you more than each other. You just have to make sure you take time to spend alone time with each one. The biggest problem is when you lose one senior the other is heartbroken and you take the chance of losing them both close together. That being said I wouldn't hesitate to take two of the same liter if they were the right dogs.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

Lots of people have more than one dog. Thanks for the info. We will do that. We already have separate crates for both of them so that's a start.


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## chelle

Jack's Dad said:


> I think my first instinct was accurate.


** comment removed by ADMIN**


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## RocketDog

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Lots of people have more than one dog. Thanks for the info. We will do that. We already have separate crates for both of them so that's a start.


More than one dog does not equal two pups. Most of the time the dogs are different ages. This is a highly respected training facility that had been in business for over 20 years. I would take their advice to heart.


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## shepherdmom

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> A few months ago, my husband and I had our cars broken into. If we had owned a watchdog, barking would've probably prevented the whole thing. I know there's no guarantee either of our puppies will bark when they grow up if they hear something outside but I can always hope.


Back in the 80's, I had both a Shepherd and an Akita, both very protective. Saved the kids from a rattle snake, once. That being said both of the slept throught our car being stolen right out of the driveway.


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## shepherdmom

RocketDog said:


> OP, two puppies is 3 x's the work:
> 
> *Double the poop, double the food bill, double the veterinary bills. *


Tripple the vet bills.  Not only do they each get their own vet costs but the costs they cause on each other....


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## Chance&Reno

I am going to appologize in advance for the next words I type. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I am so floored by this thread!

** comment removed by ADMIN. If you know what you are going to write is wrong and would need an appology than why write it? **


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

chelle said:


> Puppies do not learn to be "protective" from their mother. The dam will protect her puppies, but she is not "teaching" them to be protective.
> 
> I never said the mother was trying to teach her puppies to be protective. The dog was like that BEFORE she even had the puppies. Of course the mother wasn't trying to teach them to be protective. All I'm saying is puppies learn through observation. BIG DIFFERENCE. The puppies saw their mother run to the door and bark so they did it. The puppies saw their mother growled when hearing nearby noises outside so they started doing the same thing.
> 
> You come across as wanting a dog to do things for you, but you've never stated what YOU are willing to do for the dog?
> 
> The same things I do with my other dog. I pet him, feed him, train him, play fetch and tug o war with him, and take him to a training class he's enrolled in and has been for the last 2 weeks. I laugh when he runs around barking and pouncing. Right now I'm trying to teach him to speak on command.
> 
> Why don't you just invest in an alarm system and leave the dog business to those who really want to *work with* their dogs?
> 
> See above.
> 
> Sorry if that comes across wrong, but you've never once stated what you want to *do* with the dog/s, other than make them your "protection system." This is not going to be well received around here considering the vast majority of this forum engages in some sort of training -- and takes it pretty seriously.
> 
> I was trying to stay on topic. Did you ever think of that?
> 
> I've grown tired of the comments about "watchdog" and such. Please don't take this puppy. You have the wrong motives.


Some people prefer watchdogs. Some people prefer intelligent dogs. Some people prefer small dogs. Others prefer large dogs. There's nothing wrong with any of that because everyone has their PREFERENCES. I've grown tired of your rudeness.


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## kam214

Jack's Dad said:


> I think my first instinct was accurate.





chelle said:


> Puppies do not learn to be "protective" from their mother. The dam will protect her puppies, but she is not "teaching" them to be protective.
> 
> If only breeders would do.. what?
> 
> You come across as wanting a dog to do things for you, but you've never stated what YOU are willing to do for the dog?
> 
> Why don't you just invest in an alarm system and leave the dog business to those who really want to *work with* their dogs? Sorry if that comes across wrong, but you've never once stated what you want to *do* with the dog/s, other than make them your "protection system." This is not going to be well received around here considering the vast majority of this forum engages in some sort of training -- and takes it pretty seriously.
> 
> I've grown tired of the comments about "watchdog" and such. Please don't take this puppy. You have the wrong motives.


AMEN and +1 to everything you said verbatim!


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

kam214 said:


> AMEN and +1 to everything you said verbatim!


Apparently you didn't read my last post or you would know she twisted my words and jumped to wrong conclusions. Or maybe you did and decided it would be fun to gang up on me anyway. Which is it?


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

Why must I always repeat myself?



Quote:
Originally Posted by *chelle*  
_Puppies do not learn to be "protective" from their mother. The dam will protect her puppies, but she is not "teaching" them to be protective. 

I never said the mother was trying to teach her puppies to be protective. The dog was like that BEFORE she even had the puppies. Of course the mother wasn't trying to teach them to be protective. All I'm saying is puppies learn through observation. BIG DIFFERENCE. The puppies saw their mother run to the door and bark so they did it. The puppies saw their mother growled when hearing nearby noises outside so they started doing the same thing. 

You come across as wanting a dog to do things for you, but you've never stated what YOU are willing to do for the dog?

The same things I do with my other dog. I pet him, feed him, train him, play fetch and tug o war with him, and take him to a training class he's enrolled in and has been for the last 2 weeks. I laugh when he runs around barking and pouncing. Right now I'm trying to teach him to speak on command. 

Why don't you just invest in an alarm system and leave the dog business to those who really want to *work with* their dogs?

See above.

Sorry if that comes across wrong, but you've never once stated what you want to *do* with the dog/s, other than make them your "protection system." This is not going to be well received around here considering the vast majority of this forum engages in some sort of training -- and takes it pretty seriously.

I was trying to stay on topic. Did you ever think of that?

I've grown tired of the comments about "watchdog" and such. Please don't take this puppy. You have the wrong motives._

Some people prefer watchdogs. Some people prefer intelligent dogs. Some people prefer small dogs. Others prefer large dogs. There's nothing wrong with any of that because everyone has their PREFERENCES. I've grown tired of your rudeness.


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## jetscarbie

To be fair to the OP: When I got my first GSD, I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THEM. I even spelled shepherd as shephard If you do a basic search of the Internet on GSD's...some of the information OP posted about is what's stated on some sites. Sorry, but some people really don't know all the information you all do.

OP spent $500 on her AKC pup. She got to pick the pup out. For OP, $500 may be a lot of money for a dog....and it having AKC papers probably made her think she was buying from a "good/reputable breeder" Not everybody knows about BYBs. My hubby bought our first dog to be a "watch dog" for me when he was gone out of town. That's what we thought GSD's were.

OP...I am sorry that some were a little harsh. We sort of hear everything on this site.

Take a deep breath. Your pup is just a pup. You only spent 30 minutes with the litter. Really hard to judge a pup from 30 minutes. Actually, your pup could be the most laid back pup ever....it could have picked the moment you came to wake up and play. When you buy a pup from a really good breeder....most don't let you pick your pup....they find out about your life and match you with the one that works for your family. Makes sense b/c the breeder is around the pups all the time. They know the pup better than anyone. They know the pup that is more laid back, has the most energy, playful, or shy.

You are correct. Lots of people have multiple dogs. I do. The problem is...most people usually don't have multiple pups. Not that it can't be done...it's just very hard. It can be very expensive also.

Really, the only advice I can give you......take the dog to the vet. Make sure it's healthy. Read the threads on food...and get your dog on some good dog food. Start it out on the right track. Start calling around ASAP to set up some puppy classes. Start learning everything you can about the breed. Start reading up on "landsharks" b/c pretty soon you may experience that. (GS pups love to bite) You said you had a crate??? Good, read up on crate training and potty training.

As far as protection goes.....I don't know a lot about that. Mine all bark when somebody comes in the yard. I consider that a good thing....but I also like to say "quite" and they all shut up. I consider the best GSD the ones that listen and are trained. NOBODY truly knows what their GSD would do if somebody broke into their house (unless they've went through it) All my dogs live in the house, so they wouldn't be much help if somebody broke into my car.

Enjoy your new pup. I hope you stick around and post some pictures.


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## Catu

Wow! I am reading so much ignorance on this thread... and it is not coming from the original poster...

I guess I'll stick reading only the working threads.


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## Catu

jetscarbie said:


> To be fair to the OP: When I got my first GSD, I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THEM. I even spelled shepherd as shephard If you do a basic search of the Internet on GSD's...some of the information OP posted about is what's stated on some sites. Sorry, but some people really don't know all the information you all do.
> 
> Enjoy your new pup. I hope you stick around and post some pictures.


:thumbup:
refreshing post, maybe there is some hope on this forum


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## JakodaCD OA

I would HOPE, people will help with constructive info vs rudeness with this poster. It sounds like a done deal, so we just move on.

Mr & Mrs K, I hope you will stick around, there is alot of really good information on this board, if you see 'rudeness', just don't respond. Take the good info and apply it. Feel free to ask anything.

Since your getting the puppy today I think? Of course we insist on pictures


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## Danielle609

OP. I really want to wish you the best of luck with this pup. I cannot be one to judge, growing up we had 5, yes 5 German Shepherds. We (my Parents) did the same thing with all of them. When we were ready for a new dog we looked in the newspaper, called, went to look, and brought our puppy home the same day. We had no idea there were bad breeder and good breeders. We just figured that as long as it wasn't a puppy mill then they must be good. Didn't even see the parent half of the time. They may have all had issues, but I am going to be honest, I loved them all! 

Moral of the story: You learn to love your dog not for what they should or can be, but what they are. Right now it looks like you have already committed yourself to the pup. Now it is your job to love it and nourish it both mentally and physically. I think you came to the right place, there will be someone here to help you with any questions you may have. Can't wait to see pictures of the new pup!

Funny note to show how ignorant my DH and I were before I found this board...I was looking on Kijiji (Which I think is Ebay classifieds now) and I told my DH that I would like to spend a little more to get a better dog...a little more to me was 5-700 dollars. My husband looks and saw that a dog labeled "German Shepard" was cheaper in price. His response "Well lets get a German Shepard, they seem to be cheaper than the shepherds"  LOL...thank God I found this forum!


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## Jax08

JakodaCD OA said:


> I would HOPE, people will help with constructive info vs rudeness with this poster. It sounds like a done deal, so we just move on.
> 
> Mr & Mrs K, I hope you will stick around, there is alot of really good information on this board, if you see 'rudeness', just don't respond. Take the good info and apply it. Feel free to ask anything.
> 
> Since your getting the puppy today I think? Of course we insist on pictures


Ditto!!!


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley

jetscarbie said:


> To be fair to the OP: When I got my first GSD, I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THEM. I even spelled shepherd as shephard If you do a basic search of the Internet on GSD's...some of the information OP posted about is what's stated on some sites. Sorry, but some people really don't know all the information you all do.
> 
> The internet is where I got the alot of the information I posted about. Thank you. I really appreciate you pointing that out.
> 
> OP spent $500 on her AKC pup. She got to pick the pup out. For OP, $500 may be a lot of money for a dog....and it having AKC papers probably made her think she was buying from a "good/reputable breeder" Not everybody knows about BYBs. My hubby bought our first dog to be a "watch dog" for me when he was gone out of town. That's what we thought GSD's were.
> 
> OP...I am sorry that some were a little harsh. We sort of hear everything on this site.
> 
> Some were over the top harsh, some were helpful and very nice like you.
> 
> Take a deep breath. Your pup is just a pup. You only spent 30 minutes with the litter. Really hard to judge a pup from 30 minutes. Actually, your pup could be the most laid back pup ever....it could have picked the moment you came to wake up and play. When you buy a pup from a really good breeder....most don't let you pick your pup....they find out about your life and match you with the one that works for your family. Makes sense b/c the breeder is around the pups all the time. They know the pup better than anyone. They know the pup that is more laid back, has the most energy, playful, or shy.
> 
> I see why breeders picking the puppy is a better idea than the buyer picking themselves. I will remember that.
> 
> You are correct. Lots of people have multiple dogs. I do. The problem is...most people usually don't have multiple pups. Not that it can't be done...it's just very hard. It can be very expensive also.
> 
> Really, the only advice I can give you......take the dog to the vet. Make sure it's healthy. Read the threads on food...and get your dog on some good dog food. Start it out on the right track. Start calling around ASAP to set up some puppy classes. Start learning everything you can about the breed. Start reading up on "landsharks" b/c pretty soon you may experience that. (GS pups love to bite) You said you had a crate??? Good, read up on crate training and potty training.
> 
> As far as protection goes.....I don't know a lot about that. Mine all bark when somebody comes in the yard. I consider that a good thing....but I also like to say "quite" and they all shut up. I consider the best GSD the ones that listen and are trained. NOBODY truly knows what their GSD would do if somebody broke into their house (unless they've went through it) All my dogs live in the house, so they wouldn't be much help if somebody broke into my car.
> 
> My puppies are both going to live in the house all the time for a few months because they're too young to stay outside all night. When they get older, they will be living both inside and outside. From what I've read, guard dogs bark and alert their owners if they're either inside or outside if they hear a noise outside close to your home. Personal protection dogs are trained to attack on command and attack on their own only if their owner is unconscious or not home if someone breaks in. Personally, I would prefer a dog to take an intruder down and snarl at them so they won't move until help arrives without actually biting.
> 
> Enjoy your new pup. I hope you stick around and post some pictures.


I was thinking about either abandoning this site entirely or creating a new profile until I decided to check my replies one last time. I'm glad I did. After reading your post along with several others, I have decided to stick around. To everyone who was friendly and offered helpful advice, thank you. We are leaving now to pick up our cute chubby little fur ball.


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## Castlemaid

Catu said:


> Wow! I am reading so much ignorance on this thread... and it is not coming from the original poster...


Agree! Thank you to those who are giving good advice and info. A big :thumbsdown: to people who are making snarky, self-righteous comments. 

Give the OP info, in a non-judgemental way, they are much more likely to make the right decision and avoid future problems. 

PS: Read the board rules. Creating a duplicate account is against board rules. 

My short version of my answer:
Two puppies together is an issue:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/158118-id-love-get-two-puppies-once.html

Impossible to say anything about the puppy you chose - you have not observed the parents enough to know what they are like, and have not been given enough info about the parents to say what they are like. 

Watching two pups play-fight for 30 minutes does not tell you which is alpha and which will grow up to be protective. That they were friendly and eager to interact with you is a good sign in general, but not indicative of future protectiveness.

Any dog can bark at strangers at the door. That is not a sign of protectiveness. Protectiveness in GSDs kicks in when they mature mentally, around 18 to 24 months. Until then, they are babies, and you need to make them feel protected and looked after. 

A GSD may not be what you are looking for. The will need a LOT of socialization, training, and interaction with their human family. A dog left outside can become a digger and a nuisance barker.


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## wolfstraum

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Isn't discussion and questions about German Shepherds the purpose of a German Shepherd forum? I admit I didn't know anything about choosing a young puppy, but as I said before I do have experience with watch dogs.



Yes - the forum is a place to learn about GSDs!!! The dynamics often take the form of someone who has purchased a puppy without joining the forum, reading and learning PRIOR to going out and finding a puppy. Some of the long term, knowledgeable people here are very helpful - some are just burned out from the frustration of the same story over and over....poorly bred dogs with issues whose owners are frustrated and seek help....some people come here first and find that "good" breeders do not offer inexpensive puppies and what it takes to be a good breeder....some of these people then wait to get a puppy whose genetic dice is loaded for stable temperament and nerve, others cannot or will not accept that quality costs more and become antagonistic....

Unfortunately there are too many dogs produced in this country for the number of homes available - as a nation we kill millions of unwanted animals every year - but that does not stop the breeders who are low priced pet oriented sellers from churning out pups without a working knowledge of the breed. The market is there for the $300-500 pup and they fill it without a thought to the future of the pup. People who frequent this forum are overwhelmed emotionally with the dogs dying in shelters all over the country and get upset and thus are not always sweetness and light to new people who stumble in....don't take it personally - stay around, read and learn and you will eventually understand the dynamics and emotions here.

Good luck with the pup - it is a crapshoot what she will be as an adult given the description of the parents...raise her as wisely as you can and come here for questions and help....we all started off with less knowledge than we have now - and will have more next year than we have now.

Lee


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## Jen&Bear

Hey original poster

I am nobody here lol but find this site extremely helpful and informative so don't go.

I have just read all pages of this thread. I can see the reason why you're getting the negative responses. I think it's because the only interest you've stated and the only msg coming across from your posts is exactly what Chance&reno? said "WHYYYYYYY is it that the only thing that you care about is that the puppy protects you? What about it becoming a family member? What about socialization? What about enjoying the dog as a companion? What is with all this "protection", "watch dog", "protection", "watch dog"?"

So they feel like you don't have a genuine desire for a companion but only a super tough dog that will protect you. I am guessing you must be an alpha person yourself...

I don't judge but that was the common theme from everything you said. And there is nothing wrong with that provided your heart (for lack of a better word) is in the right place. Meaning you will love it and take good care of it and give it the much much attention it needs.

So if your heart is in the right place, go for it and good luck  most of the advice given is true eventhough seemingly rude and opinionated, but you will see what they all mean that's all.

Congrats on your new pup or 2...yes post pics!


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## Snickelfritz

I just can't wait to see pictures of the puppies:wub:


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## Caesars Mom

*Stay here....you WILL learn*

OP: I agree as well that you should stay here....I agree with a lot of what the "rude" posts said, but do know that it could have been said in a more kind way. However, the GSD is such an AMAZING and INTELLIGENT breed that those of us who know and love the breed feel so strongly about them and NEVER want to see one getting into the wrong hands. Unfortunately your posts did not come across well and that's what ruffeled some feathers. 

With that said, don't leave the site. I just joined myself even though I have had 3 GS's in the past. 2 passed early in their lives (1 was my "heart" dog) and my 3rd I ended up having to return to the VERY reputable and well known breeder I purchased him from because he was NOT the right fit for our family AT ALL. Even that breeder did not assist us in selecting him and boy we made a wrong decision.....(luckily he has the perfect life now).

Sunday we just purchased our 4th GSD pup and even though I thought I knew a lot about breeders and choosing puppies, this breeder took everything to a new level. She was MORE than amazing and I have now been blessed with the most wonderful little female GSD pup I could ever imagine. In 7 short days she has already become "heart dog #2"...something I thought could never be achieved after losing Caesar. Even having raised 3 GSD pups before I am now browsing this site all the time for more knowledge because every GSD is different and once again I have even more to learn.

So even though I personally think you did not find a reputable/knowledgable breeder, and may have misinterpreted the pups behaviour when you selected it (I spent 4 hours with my breeder when picking Luna last weekend), bring your amazing little ball of fur home and start loving it and learning about it just like you would a human baby. And read/post on this site for ANY questions you have. You might get some snide remarks sometimes, but look past the rudeness at what is being said and see if there is actually helpful information in them. I do think that there has been good information/advice from even the most upset people on this thread. 

And remember this one thing......there is as much MIS-information on the web today as there is acurate information. So DON'T believe everything you read or all the stereotypes you have heard or think you know.

Enjoy and post pictures!!! (And good luck with having 2 puppies....keep us posted on how that is going)


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## chelle

OP, I was trying to be helpful in my posts and became frustrated after a time. Several people did.

It seems you want to hear what you want to hear and only that.

I once totally misinterpreted fear for protectiveness/guarding. I know what a big mistake it is to do that and how much work it takes to deal with that. I hope that will not be an issue for you.

I hope you won't get rid of the dog later if it does not develop the instincts you want it to have.

But now that you have both puppies, good luck and I hope the best for all of you.


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## msvette2u

Castlemaid said:


> Agree! Thank you to those who are giving good advice and info. A big :thumbsdown: to people who are making snarky, self-righteous comments.
> 
> Give the OP info, in a non-judgemental way, they are much more likely to make the right decision and avoid future problems.
> 
> PS: Read the board rules. Creating a duplicate account is against board rules.
> 
> My short version of my answer:
> Two puppies together is an issue:
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/158118-id-love-get-two-puppies-once.html
> 
> Impossible to say anything about the puppy you chose - you have not observed the parents enough to know what they are like, and have not been given enough info about the parents to say what they are like.
> 
> Watching two pups play-fight for 30 minutes does not tell you which is alpha and which will grow up to be protective. That they were friendly and eager to interact with you is a good sign in general, but not indicative of future protectiveness.
> 
> Any dog can bark at strangers at the door. That is not a sign of protectiveness. Protectiveness in GSDs kicks in when they mature mentally, around 18 to 24 months. Until then, they are babies, and you need to make them feel protected and looked after.
> 
> A GSD may not be what you are looking for. The will need a LOT of socialization, training, and interaction with their human family. A dog left outside can become a digger and a nuisance barker.



Best post here yet.

I had a mama Shar Pei who gave birth to a litter of puppies while in my shelter. There were four.
I watched the puppies develop and play every day. One of them, cute as can be with a lot of facial wrinkles (mama was mixed and puppies were mixed I'm sure) was the bossiest girl ever. She bullied the other puppies, she ate more/first, etc. I knew she was going to be a handful. 
But in a municipal shelter like I had, I could not pick and choose who adopted what. 
That said, a woman with a son who was around 4-5yrs. old wanted one of the puppies and decided to take Ms. Bossy Pants. I tried to dissuade her but she was insistent. I felt, from watching their interactions, she was going to be "too much dog" for this woman and her child. Just a real bratty handful who needed a firm hand raising her, I guess you might say. 

Well the gal started emailing me a few weeks later and this puppy was way too rough/bossy/dominant with her son. I finally just told her to bring the puppy back, which she did, and I found it a home with adults and no kids to bug. She did great there last I heard.

Anyway - it does take more than 30 min. observing a litter to know who is going to be bossy/dominant or not, and even then, none of those things necessarily make a good watch/guard dog. You may indeed wind up with a puppy who is "too much dog" for you but also it could easily go the other way. 
Puppies are often much different with their own pack (mama/siblings) then when you take them away into your home.


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## Good_Karma

LOL, I am glad I did not start posting here before I got my first GSD!! Whew, I would have had my knuckles rapped as well. When I chose my pup from the litter (there were only two pups in the litter), I chose the one who wanted to hide under my legs when I crouched down, while the other pup explored the world. I thought, "Yes! THIS pup is cuddly and wants to be near humans - exactly what I want. And I hope he gets along with MY RESCUE PUPPY I am bring home at the same time." Bwwwwa-ha-ha-hahahaha!!!!!!

So yes, I probably chose poorly, and I ended up with a dog who is kind of under-confident and reactive BUT VERY attached to me and my husband. He makes an excellent watchdog, and alert barks at every rabbit and cat and deer he spots in our yard.  And he LOVES his "sister" Rosa. They grew up together and OMG it was the most stressful time of my life but I would not go back in time and do it differently. I am happy with how both of my dogs turned out, although it was a thousand times harder than I ever imagined it and I would never again attempt to raise two puppies at once.

Only by quietly reading (for about a year) this forum did I finally feel I was educated enough to post without having proverbial rocks hurled at me. Please keep on reading here (even if you don't feel like posting), there is a wealth of information to be had!


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## kam214

The reason some folks were "rude" is because of the way all of your posts are written. It DOES sound like you have too much emphasis on the dog only being a watch dog, guard dog, or what have you. People get angry when they see nothing about a puppy being in a loving home as a family member. All the reasons you posted about wanting the pup usually end, 95% of the time with the dog being placed in a shelter. Not saying YOU would do this, but I must be honest, your posts had me fearing your pup's future and I think others felt the same.

At least you have come here to seek advice, I know you feel attacked but you have to be a realist about the things you wrote. We all love dogs and want owners and their GSDs to be happy together. I think people were trying to also protect you from possible future heartache.

That all being said, I hope your new pup works out! I am sure it will now that you have been armed with good advice.


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## msvette2u

> LOL, I am glad I did not start posting here before I got my first GSD!! Whew, I would have had my knuckles rapped as well.


Actually the best time to come post here is before you've put the deposit down or paid for the puppy.

I can't get over how many people come on here and ask if they did the right thing, even though the deposit is made, or payment, the puppy is virtually theirs and it's hard to walk away from a $100-500 commitment! 

Like someone else said, pages ago, it's like going to a car dealership and driving away with the car, and then going on a car forum and saying "Gosh I just bought this, did I do the right thing?" There's not a lot you can say at that point (about their decision) that is going to help.

That said, in this case, people have given great advice (even to walk away from this obviously poor-quality breeder), but it doesn't seem like what the OP wants to hear.


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## cta

Good_Karma said:


> LOL, I am glad I did not start posting here before I got my first GSD!! Whew, I would have had my knuckles rapped as well. When I chose my pup from the litter (there were only two pups in the litter), I chose the one who wanted to hide under my legs when I crouched down, while the other pup explored the world. I thought, "Yes! THIS pup is cuddly and wants to be near humans - exactly what I want. And I hope he gets along with MY RESCUE PUPPY I am bring home at the same time." Bwwwwa-ha-ha-hahahaha!!!!!!
> 
> So yes, I probably chose poorly, and I ended up with a dog who is kind of under-confident and reactive BUT VERY attached to me and my husband. He makes an excellent watchdog, and alert barks at every rabbit and cat and deer he spots in our yard.  And he LOVES his "sister" Rosa. They grew up together and OMG it was the most stressful time of my life but I would not go back in time and do it differently. I am happy with how both of my dogs turned out, although it was a thousand times harder than I ever imagined it and I would never again attempt to raise two puppies at once.
> 
> Only by quietly reading (for about a year) this forum did I finally feel I was educated enough to post without having proverbial rocks hurled at me. Please keep on reading here (even if you don't feel like posting), there is a wealth of information to be had!


i smiled a little when i read this. your dog sounds like my dog. and i think back to the day when we looked at the pups...his sister was sitting, making eye contact, being brave...all things that one should want in a puppy...and i chose the "quiet" one. well turns out the quiet one grew to be quite a handful in the underconfident reactive kind of way. also a good watch dog....loves to bark....at everything . 

to the OP. at this point, what you can do for this puppy is keep on reading and trying to learn everything you can so you are prepared to help the dog achieve its potential. the most important thing is to accept this dog for whatever it is...protective or not, etc. when i got my dog (first dog ever i was solely responsible for...and a GSD...what was i thinking? jk) i had all these things that i WANTED him to be and well, it just didn't turn out that way. i was so blinded by my own expectations that i failed to provide what he needed to flourish. so then i really examined the situation and came to the conclusion that he is my responsibility and that i needed to do whatever I could to help him succeed. i wish i had found this forum before i got him..or at least right when i got him so i could've picked up all the helpful information that's posted here. i agree with the post above...even if you don't write any more threads you should at least browse...the information here is incredible! good luck with your new pups...if you're not too put off, please post some pics for us.


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## Packen

I know everyone on this forum has been brainwashed that "breeder knows best, let them pick for you". This is only true if the buyer is totally clueless. If the buyer knows what he/she is doing there is nothing wrong with picking your own pup from the litter you selected.


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## Courtney

Packen said:


> I know everyone on this forum has been brainwashed that "breeder knows best, let them pick for you". This is only true if the buyer is totally clueless. If the buyer knows what he/she is doing there is nothing wrong with picking your own pup from the litter you selected.


Good point.

I would think it's a joint decision between buyer & breeder for those experienced GSD buyers who know exactly what they are looking for.

For me, I was clueless & the breeder chose for me.


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## selzer

Let's see, I picked Frodo because he was the only one that would come out from under the junk car and engage. He was a mistake, but it was my first GSD, and I learned a lot from him. 

I picked Arwen because her ears and face had brown markings on them. (Frodo was a bi-color and I wanted a saddle back). I also got her at just under six weeks old because Frodo was too old when I got him and that was why I had so much trouble with him. Frodo was 10 weeks when I brought him home. I guess that was a mistake too. But Arwen, was actually not. She turned out great. 

I picked Dubya at 7 weeks and took him home. I picked him because of his pedigree and how his sire was imported and both of the dam's parents were. Everyone knows that the Germans do it much better, and you won't have any problems with an inported pup. Guess that was a mistake too. But Dubya was a good dog, and maybe I just learned a thing or two about keeping a dog, so he turned out better than Frodo. 

Rushie was the first pup I bought after coming to this site. Perhaps I ignored a red flag or two, but I was and am ok with his breeders. He was also 10 weeks old. I was all set on his brother as his ears were up (Frodo's never did come up), but then he hid under the table. So in mid-point I switched over to El Rush Bo, "I'll take uhhhhhh that one." I went to puppy classes with the brother, and he was a bit weenie. Rushie's ears did stand, and he was an exceptional dog. 

I tend to prefer to choose my own puppies. Even if I make a bad choice or make the choice for all the wrong reasons. But what I do for newbie puppy buyers, is I give them a choice, but not the whole litter, I choose which will be the best fit -- usually there is more than one, and then let them decide between them. 

It would be best to have one puppy at at a time, but if you are prepared to work with your puppies, take them to classes -- better each to their own class, and keep with the training, and keep with the training, and keep with the training, with patience in another 9 years, they will be the best dogs in the neighborhood. 

I am still saying that about most of mine, so that is not a snide or rude comment. 

I do like to take the pup to puppy classes, then basic obedience, then back for another six weeks or so of advanced obedience, through CGC classes -- six or eight weekly sessions. By then the pup will be in the teenager stage, and the answer to that is to patiently plow through it, so more classes. The good news is by then you have a good foundation. At that point, you can just take him back for a couple of classes here or there, or keep up with it in your daily walk whatever. I think when you have one dog, you have tons of time for training and socialization that it seems there are a lot less problems. But if you have more than one puppy, then you have less time for each and you actually need to spend more time with each as two heads are always better at one at being in trouble. It is certainly not impossible, but it is harder.


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## Emoore

selzer said:


> I do like to take the pup to puppy classes, then basic obedience, then back for another six weeks or so of advanced obedience, through CGC classes -- six or eight weekly sessions. By then the pup will be in the teenager stage, and the answer to that is to patiently plow through it, so more classes.


Best advice in the whole thread right here.


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## Dainerra

Packen said:


> I know everyone on this forum has been brainwashed that "breeder knows best, let them pick for you". This is only true if the buyer is totally clueless. If the buyer knows what he/she is doing there is nothing wrong with picking your own pup from the litter you selected.


Sometimes the breeder doesn't know any more than the buyer. Sometimes they know even less. So, like all "rules" it depends on the people involved. Who what when where why and how. and the phases of the moon and the position of Mars in relation to Neptune


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## Freestep

I think some people are getting too bent out of shape over the OP wanting a "protective" dog.

Isn't that why many (if not most) of us chose this breed in the first place? I did! When I got my first GSD, that was pretty much the reason I chose that breed over, say, a Lab or some mix from the shelter. I wanted a reasonable expectation of protective nature; at the time, I was a young single girl living alone. All the other stuff--love, training, socializing, I thought was just a given. I think the OP may have assumed we'd take it for granted they'd be taking the puppy to classes, training, socializing, etc., and was asking questions about "protectiveness" because that is the part they knew least about.

It does sound like they made a mistake with the breeder they've chosen, and another mistake raising two puppies at once, but... the deed is done, unless there is still time to back out of the purchase. Now all we can do is try to offer our help, advice, and support. We've all made mistakes. I bought my first puppy from a BYB; I was living in an apartment that technically did not allow pets; I was young and stupid and wanted what I wanted and no one was going to tell me I couldn't have it. I made a lot of mistakes, and yet that first dog lived a long, happy, healthy, life, was in fact protective and may have saved my life several times over (as I said, I was young and did stupid things). Despite all my mistakes, the dog forgave me and never made a misstep. I do wish I'd done some things differently, but back then they didn't have the internet, and I had to rely on books like Barbara Woodhouse, the Koeler method, etc, and what people told me... somehow we muddled through.


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## middleofnowhere

That isn't why I chose the breed. I fell in love with a 10 week old pup that was an elkhound/shep x. When the friend that had him was going to get rid of him, I took him. He was incredibly smart.
Next shep x (pound puppy) was chosen because of the first dog's success with me. She was totally different but a very fine dog.
Next was a shep that appeared in my back yard with a punctured trachea & jugular. He had me hooked as I loaded him in the truck to haul him to the vet to save his life.
After that was another shep from a breeder that sounded reputable (I knew I wanted a reputable breeder but no one told me what constituted a reputable breeder.) I got a shep because I loved the smartness of the breed and how they looked.
When my old dog died, that shep pup @ 3 yo let me know she would drive me nuts if I didn't get someone else for her to boss around.

Anyway - brains was why I went for sheps. And the emotional hook of the first one. I'll protect my dogs, thanks. (And myself.)


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## Freestep

You can fall in love with many breeds, or mixes. When making a conscious decision on breed, there are many different traits to consider. I like intelligence, a biddable nature, etc. and there are lots of breeds that have that... what tipped the decision in favor of the GSD is all that, plus a protective nature. Lots of other breeds have protective instincts as well, but I like GSDs for all their attributes. Brains, trainability, loyalty, and the fact that they are beautiful doesn't hurt either.

I do protect my dogs from harm (as much as I reasonably can). They return the favor.


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## Rua

Good_Karma said:


> Only by quietly reading (for about a year) this forum did I finally feel I was educated enough to post without having proverbial rocks hurled at me. Please keep on reading here (even if you don't feel like posting), there is a wealth of information to be had!


While I completely agree that there is such a wealth of information to be had here, I have to say, I think it's a bit sad that people (myself included) feel like they cannot express themselves without having "rocks" hurled at them if they are still in the learning process. 

I don't understand why the nature of this forum can be so harsh at times - especially to newbies - who are here to learn. Which brings me to my next point:



msvette2u said:


> I can't get over how many people come on here and ask if they did the right thing, even though the deposit is made, or payment, the puppy is virtually theirs and it's hard to walk away from a $100-500 commitment!


I only properly discovered this website AFTER I bought my €400 commitment. I've learned a lot since then, and know what I'd do differently now. But sometimes people come on here to just get a bit of reassurance. There is no shame in that, even if the decision they made wasn't always the best one. Nobody's perfect. It may seem silly to someone who has done years of research before buying their first GSD to go about things backwards. But sometimes that's just the way things in life go. 

This is a forum and most of us have never and will likely never meet one another in real life. To make assumptions on the actions of people based solely on their internet posts is a mistake. There is no way to know is going on in everyone's life to make them do the things they do. The fact that people come here looking for help should be duly noted and focused on, rather than the order in which they went searching for the help.


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## msvette2u

> But sometimes people come on here to just get a bit of reassurance. There is no shame in that, even if the decision they made wasn't always the best one.


Oh I understand that, but where does that leave us? 
Most the time I meander on my way without words, because what can I say, if it's a horrible breeder and I wish they'd saved their money?



> It may seem silly to someone who has done years of research before buying their first GSD to go about things backwards.


Well, that is not me. We just got ours at the pound. 
And that's the advice I'd give, if someone wants to buy a BYB product which is a crapshoot at best, go to the pound or shelter, or better yet, a rescue


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## LoveEcho

Freestep said:


> You can fall in love with many breeds, or mixes. When making a conscious decision on breed, there are many different traits to consider. I like intelligence, a biddable nature, etc. and there are lots of breeds that have that... what tipped the decision in favor of the GSD is all that, plus a protective nature. Lots of other breeds have protective instincts as well, but I like GSDs for all their attributes. Brains, trainability, loyalty, and the fact that they are beautiful doesn't hurt either.
> 
> I do protect my dogs from harm (as much as I reasonably can). They return the favor.


I agree with the protective nature being a plus-- I think what's getting peoples hackle's raised is the "the puppy is 8 weeks old, when can it start protecting me??" mentality that's kind of come across. Plenty of people get GSD's for reasons _including_ a protective nature, but they also understand that it doesn't come immediately, and it needs to be secondary to everything else. The fear vs. protective thing mentioned several times is critical. 

And who tells people to pick the "alpha" puppy? Most first time owners should NOT have the strongest dog in the litter, it seems... that's asking for an insecure dog, where all kinds of problems are going to be born. 

Now that what's done is done, I hope the OP heeds the relevant advice and seeks as much help from trainers/classes/etc as possible to give both pups the best chance to be good ambassadors to the breed. People do come across at being rude-- but mostly because they're terrified of it being yet another case of someone not doing right by their dog and the dog perpetuating a bad image for the breed. Don't scare them off- yes it was a bad decision on multiple levels, but now if they have no resources at all it's going to make a bad one worse. 

OP-- read, read, read. There is a wealth of information here for first time puppy owners, first time GSD owners, etc. Be prepared for a long, arduous road-- the more you know what to expect (including the bad and ugly), the more you'll be able to deal with it.


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## LARHAGE

Freestep said:


> You can fall in love with many breeds, or mixes. When making a conscious decision on breed, there are many different traits to consider. I like intelligence, a biddable nature, etc. and there are lots of breeds that have that... what tipped the decision in favor of the GSD is all that, plus a protective nature. Lots of other breeds have protective instincts as well, but I like GSDs for all their attributes. Brains, trainability, loyalty, and the fact that they
> are beautiful doesn't hurt either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do protect my dogs from harm (as much as I reasonably can). They return the favor.





Agree with this, I love and own several breeds, but I have German Shepherds because I live alone in a rural neighborhood, you better believe I was considering my safety when choosing to own them, they have my back like I have there's .


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## selzer

I live in a rural area, near the county seat where the sherriff's department is, but that does not mean I feel like they would come quickly if I call. The county is the largest in Ohio, and one of the poorest. They say we only have one deputy working at night which means he can be on a call, better than half an hour away. Ours it the location where the local judge said we should all have a gun. Well, yeah, but the dogs are my early warning signal. 

In the next township a year or so ago, a GSD alerted and rushed outside while the man got his gun. They shot the dog twice -- two different caliper bullets, two people, and busted through the door. I think the dog's name was Syrus. Anyhow, the man shot at them and they took off. The dog was rushed to the hospital, shot in the muzzle and chest, I think. He made it. 

Now I really do not hope that my dogs ever engage a stranger or get shot for doing what they ought, but I have no fear going home at night because my dogs are there, and I will no long before I go into the house if there is a problem. I sleep easy because my dogs are there, and I will know if there is anyone around that should not be. I see it more as a deterrent as protection, but yeah, it is a quality that the breed has. To deny it is somewhat unfair.


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## chelle

LoveEcho said:


> I agree with the protective nature being a *plus*-- I think *what's getting peoples hackle's raised is the "the puppy is 8 weeks old, when can it start protecting me??" mentality* that's kind of come across. Plenty of people get GSD's for reasons _*including*_ a protective nature, but they* also understand that it doesn't come immediately*, and it needs to be *secondary* to everything else. The fear vs. protective thing mentioned several times is critical.
> 
> And who tells people to pick the "alpha" puppy? Most first time owners should NOT have the strongest dog in the litter, it seems... that's asking for an insecure dog, where all kinds of problems are going to be born.
> 
> Now that what's done is done, I hope the OP heeds the relevant advice and seeks as much help from trainers/classes/etc as possible to give both pups the best chance to be good ambassadors to the breed. People do come across at being rude-- *but mostly because they're terrified of it being yet another case of someone not doing right by their dog and the dog perpetuating a bad image for the breed.* Don't scare them off- yes it was a bad decision on multiple levels, but now if they have no resources at all it's going to make a bad one worse.
> 
> OP-- read, read, read. There is a wealth of information here for first time puppy owners, first time GSD owners, etc. Be prepared for a long, arduous road-- the more you know what to expect (including the bad and ugly), the more you'll be able to deal with it.


Really good post, LoveEcho! Exactly where I was trying to come from, but failed. You really put this well. Good job.


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