# Best Age to Neuter a GSD



## rocco1 (May 14, 2017)

My pup is only 4 months old so no neuter for months. My vet said to wait until over one year or longer for GSD. He stated for health issues testicular cancer and other cancer that is why. He also stated if there are no mounting or marking issues I may not want neuter him at all.

I have always neuter my dogs but never had a GSD. Any advise on what way to go when the time comes. Or any negative or positive advise on not to neuter him at all.

Thanks !!!!!!!


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Arguments for both sides. I won't neuter. Increases the risks of cancers that are harder to treat than testicular cancer or prostate cancer. 
People can be responsible enough to prevent procreation. And marking can be corrected. 
Just my opinion.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

rocco1 said:


> My pup is only 4 months old so no neuter for months. My vet said to wait until over one year or longer for GSD. He stated for health issues testicular cancer and other cancer that is why. He also stated if there are no mounting or marking issues I may not want neuter him at all.
> 
> I have always neuter my dogs but never had a GSD. Any advise on what way to go when the time comes. Or any negative or positive advise on not to neuter him at all.
> 
> Thanks !!!!!!!


I think waiting is good. But ultimately I think it comes down to lifestyle. Will you need to board him at some point? Will you want another GSD that is female down the road? Will you have people babysitting him while you're traveling and potentially not be as watchful as you? Do friends/relatives have intact females? etc etc If he gets a female pregnant how would you handle it (personally and financially)?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

An intact male is no big deal. They are not the breeding, escape and attack monsters people often make them out to be. It is actually the neutered males who often start trouble and if an intact male responds, he will always be the one to get blamed; first because he has balls and second, or first, because he is a GSD. I won't neuter males. The excuse of testicular cancer is overrated and IMO used to get people to neuter their dogs. Why remove a crucial body part because it may get sick?


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

At least your vet understands the need of hormones for proper development of a LBP, even though all GSD breeders will recommend to wait to neuter the dog until it's closer to fully developed at 2. I personally wouldn't neuter a male. Train him not to mark everywhere and don't let him mount a female. There's always a vasectomy if your dog isn't always supervised.


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## rocco1 (May 14, 2017)

That's pretty much what my vet said. He also said that there is some belief that it will make him more aggressive but no data to prove it. Breeder said 2 years but not to neuter him. 

Thanks great info !!!!!!!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Sounds like you have a really great vet. If s/he will agree to follow a minimal vaccination schedule you have an amazing vet!


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

Food for thought  I personally prefer keeping my animals intact but it depends on your household and how responsible you are about keeping your animals contained. ^_^ 
https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/early-neutering-poses-health-risks-german-shepherd-dogs-study-finds/


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You've gotten great advice. Not unless there is a problem with the reproduction system is my answer. So far, I haven't had a problem with the boys. 

As for cancers, testicular cancer is the only one that you can prevent by neutering. If there are no testicles, your dog will not get testicular cancer. Pretty simple. And yet, the other types of cancer: osteosarcoma, hemangiosarcoma, prostate cancer, well they all are more likely if you neuter and the younger it is done the worse it is.


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## Marinemom19 (Jan 21, 2017)

Would you forsee issues with an intact and a neutered male living in the same household?


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

We _have _seen very expensive medical problems in intact dogs in rescue -- problems that wouldn't have happened had the dogs been speutered even in the middle of adulthood. In females, we've seen pyometra and mammary tumors. One of the females ultimately died from recurring, aggressive mammary cancer, despite surgery. In males, the worst has been a perineal hernia with a massively enlarged prostate, requiring a $2,000 specialist surgery due to a blowout of one side of his rectum, in an older (but not geriatric) dog. The specialist told me that this problem is only seen in older, intact males because it's hormone-triggered, and neutering even a few years before it happened would have avoided it. This sweet male didn't survive due to secondary infection -- he was maybe 8 years old. 

There _are _conditions later in life that can kill dogs that can be avoided by speutering. They get downplayed a lot on the forum only because the posters haven't personally experienced them. I've lost a few pretty wonderful older dogs in rescue to some of these conditions because former owners didn't speuter, so it's quite real to me. I think I tend to see this stuff because people dump older dogs in my area when they're done breeding them, and we just deal with a lot of dogs period, so we see tend to see a lot of stuff that people don't see when they only have one or two dogs per decade. 

Also, if you're a novice, please know that nearly all the stray male dogs AC finds out wandering are intact. They tell me that they almost never pick up neutered dogs. There _is _a wandering urge that has to be contained. If you're not up to doing that, not sure about it, or just don't want to have to worry, neutering at some point will help take one worry off your plate. 

You can absorb both arguments and neuter later. Anyone who suggests there's no risk to not neutering later, though, just hasn't experienced enough older dogs, playing the odds. You may play the odds and win, with many dogs in your lifetime -- or if you're unlucky, your dog will be the one who leaves the world too young, after thousands of dollars in vet care, from a condition that would have been avoided by neutering, even in the middle of adulthood.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

v Magwart. 

I don't know your background but I do know my vet's and Dr. L. Becker's, both of whom I trust and advise the health benefits of keeping sex hormones outweigh the risks. 
Do you find what you present with regards to maintaining sex hormones and cancer risks to be the norm or a minority? It sounds like you work in rescues? Perhaps those animals don't have good care and diets?
I personally know quite a few elderly intact GSD's in good health.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Well, I know I freaked out last spring when it occurred to me that I could lose Carly to pyometra. She was 6 then. She had a half sister that had to have an emergency spay at 7 years old due to pyo. I got Carly's championship, wasn't showing her any more, and wasn't going to breed her, so it made sense for me to spay her. 

Somewhere before Carly's spay, I had had enough of Russell's increasingly awful behavior when I had an intact bitch in the house. So off to the vet he went at age 3 and got neutered. 

No regrets. Everyone is doing good. The current puppy will remain intact for the foreseeable future, since I'm hoping to show her. 

I'm in the "whatever works for you" camp.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Deja is intact and almost 4 years old. I am too starting to worry about pyometra as she is getting older and am considering spaying her. The only thing I am worried about is urinary incontinence. Is there lesser chance for this when you spay them at a later age?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> An intact male is no big deal. They are not the breeding, escape and attack monsters people often make them out to be. It is actually the neutered males who often start trouble and if an intact male responds, he will always be the one to get blamed; first because he has balls and second, or first, because he is a GSD. I won't neuter males. The excuse of testicular cancer is overrated and IMO used to get people to neuter their dogs. Why remove a crucial body part because it may get sick?


That's a very broad statement. Do you have intact males alongside your bitch in heat? There are more than a few intact males that I know of that will hurt themselves to get to a bitch in standing heat. Broken teeth, destroyed containment areas causing lacerations, etc, on top of the stress and frustration that can trigger hot spots, additional prostate issues, or lead them to go off their food, which can potentially create weight loss or digestive upset. Some males may never bat an eye, but it definitely should not be made out to be a walk in the park to own intact animals of either sex. 

Additionally, I know of more than one dog who was recently euthanized due to prostate and testicular cancer that had metastasized and spread to other organs within the body. Curing cancer is not as easy as just cutting off the affected areas, and it's not just "getting sick". The same goes for bitches with mammary cancer or a severe pyometra. It's not just a simple fix, and there is huge potential for death. While I don't advocate for pediatric spay or neuter entirely, if there is no responsible breeding potential for that animal I see absolutely nothing wrong with sterilizing them at maturity.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If males go that crazy when there is a female in heat somewhere, yes, than I would consider neutering but only as a last resort to protect them from hurting themselves if everything else fails, like training and management. I never had a male that crazy, even with a female in heat nearby. I was raised in Europe where they don't routinely spay and neuter or crop and dock fro that matter, yet intact dogs seem to lead a normal life there.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Russ started out okay when the girls were in heat, but by the time he hit 3 years old he was intolerable. Keeping everyone up all night (he was at the opposite end of the house from the bitch in heat), growling and snapping, stopped eating, lost weight. I'll admit I wanted to murder him. 

As for spay incontinence, I've only ever dealt with it once, in a Dobe that was spayed young. It's quite a problem in Dobes. I've never heard any of my friends with spayed GSDs ever mention dealing with spay incontinence. Carly is 7 and a half and shows no signs of being leaky.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Enlarged prostate is more common in intact dogs.

Prostate cancer is more common in neutered dogs.

For me, and my house, I am far more comfortable with leaving things the way nature intended them to be, until and unless there is an issue with those parts, than to do something to prevent possible issues down the line, and maybe open the dog up to worse problems. 

Once upon a time, I had a vet tell me that ALL bitches will get pyometra if they are not spayed. Well, not to prove her wrong, but Babs and Jenna will be 12, Heidi 11, Milla and Ninja will be 9 all in August. Joy will be eight in July. So far no pyometra. 

I spayed Odessa after a false pregnancy. She was full of fluid, and though she had several C-sections, she never spilled any fluid before hand. When I found she was empty (no pups), I went ahead and had her spayed. She did not have pyometra, but had I not spayed her, I couldn't be certain that the liquid would have absorbed and not become toxic. And, as I was not going to breed her again in any case, spaying seemed reasonable. That was two years ago. I have fought her weight since that day. 

No mammary cancer or pyometra in any bitch I have owned. It can happen. I'll risk it.

No, I am not going to do an invasive surgery on a dog to prevent a problem that might crop up sometime down the line. 

No, there shouldn't be any issue having an intact and a neutered dog, or two intact dogs, not if you know how to raise and train your dogs. Intact dogs running loose is a symptom of irresponsible dog ownership. Responsible dog owners can keep them safe. I have had a number of intact dogs alongside intact bitches, and in-heat bitches. I've experienced some lack of appetite, that's about it. None of my boys have taken it upon themselves to injure themselves trying to get to a bitch or to escape and run the neighborhood. 

It isn't rocket science to keep intact animals. 

Even my irresponsible dog owning brother, had a golden dog and two intact GSD bitches, and never made any goldshepievers. BTW Jazzy lived to 15, intact, no pyometra, no mammary cancer, she was a WL bitch and not related to my girls.

ETA: Kosar and Rudy were out of my second litter, that would have been 11 in August. Kosar was neutered early because his owner went through a breeding and nearly lost her bitch, so she got Kosar and neutered him at 4 months when my vet likes to do them. He died at 7 years old from prostate cancer. Rudy's owner called me yesterday. She just put him down, hemangiosarcoma. I don't know when he was neutered, and I did not ask, but I am almost certain that she had told me that he was, many years ago. I just think cancer is a higher risk and most cancers are more likely in altered animals and particularly in animals altered early.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

I agree with a hysterectomy for non breeding adult bitches as the risk for pyometra is high, but according to my vet removing the ovaries after a bitch has had one or more heats does not mitigate the risk of mammary gland cancer, so why not leave the hormones, hence we're finding more vets that perform an ovary spaying spay.
Sorry op, I know you have a boy. Hope you let him develop to maturity with his hormones.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

selzer said:


> Once upon a time, I had a vet tell me that ALL bitches will get pyometra if they are not spayed. Well, not to prove her wrong, but Babs and Jenna will be 12, Heidi 11, Milla and Ninja will be 9 all in August. Joy will be eight in July. So far no pyometra.
> 
> I spayed Odessa after a false pregnancy. She was full of fluid, and though she had several C-sections, she never spilled any fluid before hand. When I found she was empty (no pups), I went ahead and had her spayed. She did not have pyometra, but had I not spayed her, I couldn't be certain that the liquid would have absorbed and not become toxic. And, as I was not going to breed her again in any case, spaying seemed reasonable. That was two years ago. I have fought her weight since that day.
> 
> ...


Deja's breeder never had a problem with pyometra either and my father in law (retired vet) said that it wasn't that common either.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

wolfy dog said:


> Deja's breeder never had a problem with pyometra either and my father in law (retired vet) said that it wasn't that common either.


I think it is one of those lies the HSUS and PETA-type people have gotten going and spread until people just believe it. One of those ends justify the means things. If it gets people to alter their dogs, than who cares if there is any truth in it at all. 

Like telling people that if they do not neuter their males they will be aggressive, or that they will turn on people, that they will mark and hump everyone, that they will chew through walls to get loose and terrorize the neighborhood. 

There is a lot of mis-information out there. We all have heard of someone who had a bitch that had pyometra. Most of us have not had a bitch that had pyometra. Many of us may have heard of the same someone who had it. 

There are a lot of illnesses our dogs might get. They are mortal and a symptom of mortalitiy is illness, disease, and the outcome of mortality is death. It is going to hit us all eventually. Certainly we want to prevent the things we can prevent. But sometimes in trying to prevent some stuff, we are causing other stuff. Like when you use flea/tick preventative. Maybe, no ill effects. And maybe it attacks the immune system, maybe it causes cancer. Maybe over-vaccinating is another way we kill our dogs with our love for them. 

There is a reason lifespans have gone from 12-14, down to 10-12. Is it early spay/neuter? Maybe. Is it over vaccination? Maybe. Is it expensive, but still crappy dog food? Maybe. Is it putting insecticides into our dogs bloodstream, Maybe. Maybe it is a mixture of all of the above. Maybe we are loving our dogs to death.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

selzer said:


> I think it is one of those lies the HSUS and PETA-type people have gotten going and spread until people just believe it. One of those ends justify the means things. If it gets people to alter their dogs, than who cares if there is any truth in it at all.
> 
> Like telling people that if they do not neuter their males they will be aggressive, or that they will turn on people, that they will mark and hump everyone, that they will chew through walls to get loose and terrorize the neighborhood.
> 
> ...


It's a lie? Well I guess you can tell that to the patients we treat at work once a month. Would you like to send me contact info so that I can forward them your way?

Just because it hasn't happened happened to your dogs, doesn't mean it's not real.


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

I swear the more I've read through these forums the more I've come to realize that my vet isn't so great. They tried to convince me to neuter my male at around 6 months and first thing they pulled out was a price sheet. It just seems like they care more about getting money than doing what's best for the dog. I told them I switched him to a raw diet where everything was weighed out on a scale, their response "well that's not a good idea because that raises the risk of bacterial infections blah blah blah" and proceeded to push for the dry food they sell at the vet....After doing more research however, I've decided to keep him intact. He was a slow grower to begin with anyways so he's gonna need those to help him finish growing


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

BlitzRomman said:


> I swear the more I've read through these forums the more I've come to realize that my vet isn't so great. They tried to convince me to neuter my male at around 6 months and first thing they pulled out was a price sheet. It just seems like they care more about getting money than doing what's best for the dog. I told them I switched him to a raw diet where everything was weighed out on a scale, their response "well that's not a good idea because that raises the risk of bacterial infections blah blah blah" and proceeded to push for the dry food they sell at the vet....After doing more research however, I've decided to keep him intact. He was a slow grower to begin with anyways so he's gonna need those to help him finish growing


Our neighbor was tricked into this myth. His (long coated) GSD was neutered at 6 months to prevent aggression and all the works, according to the vet. He is 8 years old, never built up muscle, has a horrible looking dry coat and is crippled.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

GatorDog said:


> It's a lie? Well I guess you can tell that to the patients we treat at work once a month. Would you like to send me contact info so that I can forward them your way?
> 
> Just because it hasn't happened happened to your dogs, doesn't mean it's not real.


All the patients you see; do you know their lines, breeders? Maybe they come from bad situations/breeders, bad diets, over vaccinations etc. There are a lot of variables that are unknown in this statement. Also let's keep comments nice (in red)


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> All the patients you see; do you know their lines, breeders? Maybe they come from bad situations/breeders, bad diets, over vaccinations etc. There are a lot of variables that are unknown in this statement. Also let's keep comments nice (in red)


Are you a moderator now Wolfy? I can't see on mobile version. I don't believe I've broken any rules here..Also, nothing about my comment isn't "nice". I'm asking a genuine question here. To mislead someone based on their own personal experiences and imply that anyone, especially employed in the veterinary community, would outright lie about the very real potential of something like pyometra, is not right and should not be condoned on this forum.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I think every dog owner needs to weigh the risks/benefits of either spaying or neutering or leaving their dogs intact and decide which risks they are more willing to take. Pyo scares the heck out of me, so I am not likely to leave a bitch intact past the age of 5 or 6. On the other hand, neutering a male makes me more nervous than leaving them intact, so I'm more likely to leave them alone unless a medical condition pops up that would be corrected by neutering. But my dogs are also seen by the vet frequently (twice a year for regular exams, as well as once every month or two for routine chiropractic care), so I feel between my vet and myself, we have a higher chance of catching something early. 

But to tell people the health risks of leaving a dog intact are overstated, or to judge what others feel is right for them and their adult dog... I can't get on board with any of that. I do agree that the perceived behavioral positives of neutering are often overstated, even though there is evidence that supports the contrary. But I digress. As long as people are making educated, informed decisions about their choices regarding their adult dogs, I'm good with that.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I think this comes down to: Read the research, talk to your vet, find out what your breeder recommends/requires, and check your city ordinances. Take stock of what you can do reliably - not what you think you ought to do, but what you will be able and willing to do - to contain an intact dog and prevent unintended litters. All of those factors are important. Weigh the risks for yourself. Then decide on yes/no/if yes when.

For example: I will likely not have a show dog in my lifetime, or a breeding prospect. I will have pet dogs who do dog sports and trial for fun, with goals. Performance lite, maybe. I used to want a show dog, or to have a dog that someone would want to breed/breed to, but I don't foresee that being in my future. So I will not have a requirement to keep the dog intact into middle age. I also live in a city where my intact female was not allowed off my property during her season - no training, no parks, no walks, no Chuck and Don's, no liquor store, no anything except tug and obedience in the back yard. She was really bored for 4 1/2 weeks. When she wasn't bored, I could tell she didn't feel well. Containing her was very easy, but keeping her happy was less so. I think my husband, who was the lucky one at home for all of what I dubbed the "crime scene moments," was also about to move out of the house for that 4 1/2 weeks.

All that to say, I don't see a particular reason to leave my future females intact longer than 2 years or so (I believe the requirement will be to wait until 24 months of age). I'm sold on no juvenile spay, but it seemed to work out well to balance the risk by splitting the difference and spaying her a little later. In general, my vets were pretty understanding about the breeder contract and knew I planned to spay her eventually, so everyone was fine.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

GatorDog said:


> Are you a moderator now Wolfy? I can't see on mobile version. I don't believe I've broken any rules here..Also, nothing about my comment isn't "nice". I'm asking a genuine question here. To mislead someone based on their own personal experiences and imply that anyone, especially employed in the veterinary community, would outright lie about the very real potential of something like pyometra, is not right and should not be condoned on this forum.


When we are passionate about our dogs and wanting desperately to give them the best life possible, things don't always come out the best way, especially in text. How we imaging we are "saying it" in our own heads is not how others might "hear it" in their head. I think that is the case here. 

We cannot make our decisions on experience alone. Each of us are right in our experiences. It doesn't make the other wrong. When we choose to de-sex our beloved animals, how we chose to feed them, how we chose to keep pests off of them, etc, there are no perfect answers. There are pros and cons to each side. 

Just everyone take a deep breath and remember that we all mean well.


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## Raisedbyshepherds (Mar 30, 2017)

Ive never owned a neutered male. But my vet recently asked when I plan to have my 5 month old pup fixed. Told him if I do it will be probably be no sooner than 2 years of age. He responded by saying that we should neuter early to prevent adult hormones kicking in and changing his behavior to more adult big man behavior. I dont know how much fixing him would change things, as never owned a fixed male, but..... I want him to grow up and be an adult... I dont want a perpetual puppy...which is what he seemed to be implying. 
Not neutering early anyway, but does it really make that big of a difference in how they mature??


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GatorDog said:


> It's a lie? Well I guess you can tell that to the patients we treat at work once a month. Would you like to send me contact info so that I can forward them your way?
> 
> Just because it hasn't happened happened to your dogs, doesn't mean it's not real.


I don't think it is a deliberate lie, that it started in veterinary circles as a deliberate lie. Though a friend of mine, a breeder of 50 years, and a vet tech told me that at a veterinary seminar, they were encouraged to use a lot of these arguments to get people to neuter by six months, because once the honeymoon period is over and they will not see the dog again until it is old. And if the dog reaches a certain age intact, then they probably will not spay/neuter.

I believe it began with AR-groups like HSUS and PETA, because they want to end all breeding of dogs. 

What the vet profession does not lie to people? What about all the raw-fed dog owners out there that have been told how much their dog would suffer and how sick it would be?

How about the vets who continue to vaccinate on a yearly basis when the vaccines last for 3-5 years (I know, not all of them)?

What about my vet that said EVERY bitch would get it? I am sitting here looking at 13 bitches, 1 is spayed, 6 are age 9 or above, and none of my previous bitches had it either.

Personally, I do believe there is a hereditary component. Some dogs may be prone to pyometra because of how their cycle is and it may run in lines. 

Yes, vets are going to see more of it. They have hundreds, maybe thousands of clients. If 3 or 4 come down with the condition in a year's time, is that a reason to spay every bitch out there? How many dogs have come down with hemangiosarcoma, osteosarcoma, and so many other things, and what was the median age of their deaths???

These are statistics we will not find because vets don't want us to know them. They still want bitches spayed regardless. I won't not unless there is a problem.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I want to say one more thing, and that is the thing about picking up only intact dogs roaming (implication in search of a mate). 

Well here is the thing. Only people who care about their pets, who are "responsible", alter their pets. But itis not true that those who do not alter, do not care or are irresponsible. Many, many people who care about their pets and are responsible leave their dogs intact. Neither of these groups are who is letting their dogs roam around the neighborhoods. Irresponsible people and people who do not care about their pets, are the ones who are letting their dogs roam about. These animals are generally intact because their owners did not bother enough to even consider the question. 

Now there are some people who are neither responsible or care all that much about the animal they acquire for their kids, who get the animal from a shelter, because shelters are always there, and getting an animal from one is generally pretty cheap and painless. And most of these shelters will not sell them unless they are fixed. And sometimes they dump the dog back at the shelter, and sometimes the dog ends up roaming about. Perhaps it is a good thing that there are not _that_ many people in this category.

But it is important that we do not place people in one category or the other by the question of where they acquired their dog, or whether or not they altered their dog. It is how people manage (or fail to manage) their dog that can label them responsible or irresponsible. And yes, anyone can slip up once and the dog or dogs get out. But responsible people then take steps to ensure that never happens again. Sometimes the dog gets hit by a car and killed, its very first time getting loose. Sometimes. Usually though, the dog gets loose dozens of times, and it is not until the dog warden picks up the dog and fines the owner, or the dog get smooshed and there is a huge vet bill that some people figure out that it is possible to be more responsible when managing the dog.


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