# At the crossroads with my food obsession.



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

OK, I know I've brought this up many times, so I won't come off as redundant.

A few weeks ago, I expressed a desire to switch foods. There were no specific reasons, other than to assure myself that I was giving my puppy the best I could.

If you recall, last week Kira's vet put her on ID wet food to firm up her stools.

Right now, she's down to her last 5 days of wet food. During this phase, I've been introducing her snacks and treats from Taste of the Wild, EVO Red meat, and Wellness.
I've seen no side effects from giving her those foods.
While there may not be much relevance in my "food test", giving her the ProPlan softens her stools.
So I've pretty much narrowed it down to those three foods.
All three are readily available for a considerable discount at a local pet food wholesaler.

I intend to spend the next week transitioning her over to one of those three foods.

Opinions welcomed.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

There is no way I would feed TOTW or Evo to a growing puppy
Far too high in Calcium and the ratios are off.

I fed TOTW to may working adult male before but pulled back when his blood proteins went out of whack.

---

Did you read the articles in the sticky note at the top of the forum section? Good place to start.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

What Nancy said - TOTW and Evo are not recommended for puppies.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> There is no way I would feed TOTW or Evo to a growing puppy
> Far too high in Calcium and the ratios are off.
> 
> I fed TOTW to may working adult male before but pulled back when his blood proteins went out of whack.
> ...


This is why I come here for info. Thank you.

It's so easy for an uniformed consumer to read some advertisement, and be convinced that something is good for their dog, when in fact it isn't.

I didn't read the sticky. I'll read it now.
Thanks


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

Pet Products - Healthy Dog Food, Natural Cat Food, Gourmet Dog Biscuits ? Innova Holistic Pet Food

I like to suggest what I fed my puppy. There are a lot of threads on puppy foods here. I would read a few to see others comments and suggestions. They are really helpful threads. hope this helps.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I feed TOTW to mine BUT not until after they are 12 months old. 

What Wellness product have you ben giving her? A lot of folks have had good luck with feeding Wellness Super 5 products to puppies. But NOT Wellness CORE. Wait until they are older to fed CORE.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The Innova Pupy is not that different than the Fromm puppy gold ... The fromm is a little higher in calcium and phosphorus but also higher in calories/cup so you feed a little less.

I would be comfortable feeding that.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

BlackGSD said:


> I feed TOTW to mine BUT not until after they are 12 months old.
> 
> What Wellness product have you ben giving her? A lot of folks have had good luck with feeding Wellness Super 5 products to puppies. But NOT Wellness CORE. Wait until they are older to fed CORE.


That was supposed to say "wait until they are older to FEED CORE". (Didn't notice what I had typed until it was to late to edit.)


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I agree with the others. Wellness or Innova Large breed puppy, Fromm Puppy Gold, or Wellness Complete Health Chicken is all great for a growing pup. TOTW and EVO not so much.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I use Sportmix 24/20 in the black bag and couldn't be happier. (Nor could my wallet!) I fed it to Chance as an adult (He was raised on higher priced brands until I realized I was getting the same results on the $25 Sportmix compared to the $60+ other brands) and been feeding it to Eevee since she was 6 weeks old. Very happy with coat, stools, energy, weight, ect. And did I mention it's only $25 for 50lb? Never been recalled, no GMO ingredients and used by a lot of hunters for their working dogs.  High calorie too so you'll feed less of it than some other foods.


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## southernfiction (Oct 5, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> OK, I know I've brought this up many times, so I won't come off as redundant.
> 
> A few weeks ago, I expressed a desire to switch foods. There were no specific reasons, other than to assure myself that I was giving my puppy the best I could.
> 
> ...


 
Have you considered a raw diet? I started my 6-year-old Aussie mix on raw when I adopted her at 6 weeks (using the Dr. Pitcairn recipes in Natural Health for Dogs and Cats). Talk about health and coat shine! 

My latest puppy (she's 6 months) gets raw chicken necks at the noon meal with a tablespoon of Dr. P's Healthy Powder and kibble by itself at the evening meal. A trainer just suggested I take her off puppy kibble and put her on adult due to some odd rear-end movement (he wanted her to get less protein). I'm trying the 4Health adult on her that I use with my other dogs. So far, she's doing fine. If I could afford to, I'd feed raw to everybody.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Our next puppy, a GSD, will probably be eating wellness puppy super5 if pup does well on it. I've seen excellent results with it. There are a lot of great foods out there, just have to see what works best for you and what the budget is.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Don't be surprised if she can't tolerate the Wellness. None of mine could (diarrhea) and it's not uncommon though I'm sure there are some folks on here that have had puppies that did fine on it. Just be aware if her stools loosen up it may be the Wellness.

I used Innova on all my pups and they did very well on it.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> Don't be surprised if she can't tolerate the Wellness. None of mine could (diarrhea) and it's not uncommon though I'm sure there are some folks on here that have had puppies that did fine on it. Just be aware if her stools loosen up it may be the Wellness.
> 
> I used Innova on all my pups and they did very well on it.


I know a lot of folks whose GSD puppies didn't tolerate Innova.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm not surprised (though that's the first time I've heard that about Innova), there are always puppies that aren't going to do well on some brand or another. I hear it most often, however, with Wellness and Orijen (adults on Orijen as puppies shouldn't be on it).

I have 5 gsd's, none of which could tolerate either Wellness or Orijen and all did well on Innova so just sharing my personal experience. I have no attachment as to what brand the OP uses. If the OP's puppy has loose stool on it, the food would be the first thing I would consider (assuming all parasite testing is negative).


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Lucy did well on Innova adult as a puppy and she's doing even better on Orijen adult as an adult.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Next question:

Since the vet put Kira on the ID prescription wet food, and we mix it with dry kibbles, Kira absolutely licks her bowl.

I would like to continue to mix some wet canned food with her dry food.
Is this recommended? If so, are we using Innova wet food?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Here's my thought on the wet food: 

1) One of the advantages to feeding kibble is that the crunching action helps clean the teeth. This is reduced if you feed the wet foood.

2) I believe that feeding wet/canned food makes for a picky eater. 

3) It's not cheap.

In my view, there aren't really any advantages to feeding canned food, except that the dog likes the taste of it, which, well. . . leads to picky eating. 

This is just my opinion, other people may think differently.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

If kibble cleaned teeth so well then why do over 80% of dogs have dental disease over the age of 3?

Brushing is the only thing to truly keep a dogs teeth healthy. 

I've also never had a picky eater from feeding canned food or table scrapes, as in one who would never eat dry kibble again. My dogs have always been happy to eat whatever is put in front of them, even the less food driven ones. (Chance had 0 food drive and still ate whatever) Though I do have to admit, Eevee, is a bit of a picky eater.... D*** dog only like PLAIN DRY KIBBLE!!!! Only canned food she actually likes is By Natural Organics Chicken or Turkey.  Otherwise you better not add water to her kibble and it better be PLAIN JANE!!! She turns her nose up to anything else added. Crazy dog! But it says something about how good Sportmix must taste! 

She will eat extras if they're in a separate bowl, but don't mess with the "original" taste of her Sportmix! :nono:


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

^ The teeth of a dog who ate canned food twice a day mixed with his kibble.  I have no doubt had Chance lived to be 10-15 that he wouldn't still have had all his beautiful, white teeth because I TOOK CARE OF THEM.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I will agree that kibble does NOTHING to clean the teeth. If anything the carbs encourage plaque (and even most grain frees have carbs in them)

I feed kibble but dental care is necessary. When I fed raw the teeth were always clean.

I mix my dogs' food with a little pumpkin just to keep them from inhaling and choking on the kibble. I don't believe the link between citric acid as a preservative and link is anything more than correlation but why push it. My dogs are no way nada picky eaters.

----

Sorry could not get past the first ingredient "meat meal" in the Sportmix. also the animal digest.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

jocoyn said:


> I feed kibble but dental care is necessary. When I fed raw the teeth were always clean.


Yup, I don't feed raw but I do give a raw chicken leg quarter once or twice a week to help keep the teeth clean.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

jocoyn said:


> Sorry could not get past the first ingredient "meat meal" in the Sportmix. also the animal digest.


Sportmix doesn't use animal digest in any of their formulas, even their original lines. So I'm not sure where you're getting the ingredients list from that says it has animal digest in it. Though the lamb & rice premium formula is a good option for "sensitive" people. Also, Sportmix uses "meat meal" because they use pork and beef depending on what is cheapest that week. Switching the labels on the bags would cost quite a bit of money.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

You are only a hop and skip away from raw, come on... go to the dark side.....


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

ChancetheGSD said:


> Sportmix doesn't use animal digest in any of their formulas, even their original lines. So I'm not sure where you're getting the ingredients list from that says it has animal digest in it. Though the lamb & rice premium formula is a good option for "sensitive" people. Also, Sportmix uses "meat meal" because they use pork and beef depending on what is cheapest that week. Switching the labels on the bags would cost quite a bit of money.


My mistake - it was poultry by product meal.

But if the OP wants to get away from Pro Plan I am not sure how this meets that requirement.

For the raw....I am still on the fence for a puppy. I am still convinved I gave too much bone:meat and that influenced the one dog (the only rawfed [puppy) developing HD--I may go back to raw for an adult one day but probably not given the limited meat sources that I am finding available at this point in time for me. If I could bring in deer and rabbits and had storage room, possibly. But not 100% chicken all the time.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

There is a difference between Sportmix and Pro Plan. And again, Lamb & Rice would be a good choice for "sensitive" people. It doesn't have by-products, corn, soy or wheat in it. The proteins are named meals even! (lamb meal and chicken meal) Which is more than many higher priced foods can say.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I know it's really expensive, but (I'm planning on switching to TOW after a year-15 months)--I am feeding Orijen. My pup has done great on it. My previous dog did fab on TOW--he'd been on Wellness Core and Innova prior. 

No loose stools after the transition period (which could've been just young pup stuff anyhow) of about 2 weeks. 

Just my .02.


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## IllinoisGSD (Sep 21, 2011)

We plan on either Orijen LBP or Fromm Gold LBP. Which ever agrees with him more.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Something else I learned today....

I started another thread about this morning's vomit from Kira. I won't get into it here, but she's fine.
However, I did note that her vomit contained nothing but whole kibble. Her kibble is mixed with wet food, and she inhales it.

If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say that mixing wet / dry is not a good idea for the reason I witnessed today. It goes down too smooth. 

I'm leaning towards Fromm LBP Gold, or Innova.

I've ruled out TOTW, and EVO. Raw is NOT out of the question, but for now it is. I need to learn more about it.
I have a local pet food supply, that sells frozen RAW burgers for dogs. I don't know much about them, and will look into those as well.

Well, it seems that Fromms LBP Gold is readily available to me from 5 stores within 3 miles of my home. Looking at the ingredients, it appears to be right up there with what I had in mind.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

ChancetheGSD said:


> ........Sportmix uses "meat meal" because they use pork and beef depending on what is cheapest that week. Switching the labels on the bags would cost quite a bit of money.


Which means that the kibble likely isn't consistent from bag to bag which could cause digestive upset for some dogs. Since one bag could have been made on a "cheap pork week" while the next could have been made on "cheap beef week".


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Josie/Zeus said:


> You are only a hop and skip away from raw, come on... go to the dark side.....


 
Hahah!!!! I would if I didn't have a fifteen cubic foot refridgerator.


Raw is the best.
The only problems that I've heard about it is the fact that people don't clean the bowls or surfaces....*CAN WE ALL SAY YUCK!*
My bosses dogs are on raw and they have the smallest poops and the best coats. No waste products, preservatives (linked to cancers and seizures).

My girl loves loves loves Orijens Regional Red. I think that the higher protein counteracts all her downers for seizures.

ETA: If Kira is "inhaling" her food; get a slow feed bowl or feed her on a cookie tray. Just dump the food out on the tray to slow her down. On one hand that will be an easy dog to train being food motivated...


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

IMO "inhaling" their food is NOT desirable.

I also agree with the poster that said feeding caned with their kibble can make for a picky eater. Wont happen with ALL dogs, but it will with some. Unfortunately you won't know which your pup is until you run out of canned, or decide not to use it anymore and end up with a dog that doesn't want to eat.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I really think what you witnessed was due to play/exertion. I mix pumpkin in with my food to keep it from being inhaled because my dogs tend to choke on dog food because of how fast they eat.

I have also added water to some dog foods and mixed in canned with dog foods and never had a problem.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

BlackGSD said:


> Which means that the kibble likely isn't consistent from bag to bag which could cause digestive upset for some dogs. Since one bag could have been made on a "cheap pork week" while the next could have been made on "cheap beef week".


Ya know, one thing I've found in all my years of having dogs and all the years of my family owning dogs and something I've witnessed a LOT working in kennels.....It's the ones who eat the same thing all the time that have the "digestive" problems.  Obviously conditions such as SIBO/EPI, ect are exceptions but a healthy dog should be able to handle a simple protein change. Nobody questions someone who rotates the formulas of TOTW or Instinct for instance...Why is it wrong for Sportmix to blend up their proteins? And many brands of "higher quality" foods have been proven to have inconsistent ingredients. There are even "high quality allergy foods" that have been tested positive for chicken in it and yet.....The label doesn't list chicken in it!! I don't think many of you realize how cheating the dog food companies really are.

It's also odd that if someone is feeding a cheaper food and the dogs having problems, they are told to change to a "better" food. There is no way it's something else wrong, it's always the food you have to point your finger at. But if someones dog is having exposive diarrhea or any other problem on Orijen, it's just because it's a "rich" food and you need to "give it a couple weeks".  And shame shame shame if you have problems on Orijen and then go back to Purina Pro Plan because the dog was fine until they read online it's "crap" and were guilted into switching only to end up with vet bills because their dog became dehydrated from the diarrhea they were having and trying to "wait it out".

I'll still happily stick to my food that has been proven to work, never been recalled and is in a price range that allows my dog AND me to eat that week. Just as anyone else can share their information, I can share mine. It's up to the OP to decide what to feed.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

BlackGSD said:


> I know a lot of folks whose GSD puppies didn't tolerate Innova.


My pup has had difficulties with it. When I'm mixing wet with a tablespoon of pumpkin once per day (of two feedings), it is fine. If I don't, he tends to be constipated.



Anthony8858 said:


> If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say that mixing wet / dry is not a good idea for the reason I witnessed today. It goes down too smooth.
> 
> I'm leaning towards Fromm LBP Gold, or Innova.


I haven't had this issue that mixing makes him "inhale" it. But then again, I do so somewhat sporadically. Typically the morning meal, since he is usually much more hungry then, so it is only kibble. I also don't add *that* much wet food. Just enough to "hide" the pumpkin, since he doesn't like pumpkin.



BlackGSD said:


> IMO "inhaling" their food is NOT desirable.
> 
> I also agree with the poster that said feeding caned with their kibble can make for a picky eater. Wont happen with ALL dogs, but it will with some. Unfortunately you won't know which your pup is until you run out of canned, or decide not to use it anymore and end up with a dog that doesn't want to eat.


Right, agree. It is a matter of concern for me, yes. As explained above, he doesn't get wet mixed every meal. He still eats the pure kibble. I just try to go with plain kibble when I'm especially sure he's quite hungry. Might be a stupid strategy, but it is working for now.

I'm stuck with this because I can't make my mind up on what food to switch to. I have my ideas. But for now, the Innova LBP works *as long as* I mix the tablespoon of pumpkin in daily. I do NOT want to be stuck with this regimen forever, but I can't make my mind up yet on what to try to change to.


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