# Need Help Understanding Pedigree



## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

My Breeder and I spoke, and assuming I understood her correctly and she was talking about the correct litter she gave me some pedigree details.

I have no idea about any of this, and so I'm hoping someone who speaks GSD could translate 

"East and West German Bloodlines, top quality V and VA ScuH3 and Sieger rated sires/dams show lines."

Was what I wrote down from our conversation. I know from the beginning I preferred the german line due to the back shape but is it necessarily better or anything over the American line? I know the last part about her coming from a shutzhund/sieger line. What is V and VA? Her parents names are Hans and Natasha I'm 95% sure (still waiting on litter papers) So what would this make her pedigree name It would be something like Eva Vom....right?

Also, what is the difference between shutzhund and sieger?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

LOL, I wish I could speak GSD! 

Sounds to me that your puppy is from West German Show Lines (also sometimes refered to as "Highlines"). Not very familiar with show-lines and the different ratings for showlines, but here is a little rundown from the info you posted:



> East and West German Bloodlines, top quality V and VA ScuH3 and Sieger rated sires/dams show lines


V and VA are show ratings (conformation). 

VA = "Excellent Select" Rating. Only so many dogs per year are awarded t his rating

V = "Excellent" Still a very high rating in conformation. 

SchH3 = Schutzhund III. This is a working title. In order to earn a Schutzhund title, the dog must, in the same trial, usually on the same day, pass the tracking, obedience and protection phases. Schutzhund III is the highest level of Schutzhund titles. 

Sieger: Top Conformation Champion. The Top male is the Sieger, the top female is the Siegerine. I hope the people more familiar with show lines will give a bit more info - I don't want to steer you wrong, but I believe that there is also a bite-work/protection part to the Sieger shows. 

When you get the pedigree, post it in the pedigree section of the board. Some people are very knowledgeable about the different lines and will be able to give you more feedback.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

That is what I thought and am no pedigree expert. I do know that both showline and working dogs must get their shutzhund titles if they are SV registered.

There is a very different focus on the relative importance of the two and much infighting about the shutzhund tests being watered down to have less meaning. 

I think the East German dogs could be either...so she could be strictly showlines or a mix of show and working. Hard to say without the pedigree.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

As for the difference between lines . . . strong advocates for each type that are always in disagreement as to which line is the "true" GSD. 

There are actually three main blood lines: American Showlines, German showlines, and Working lines. 

Here are a couple of links that have been excellent for introducing me when I was a newbie to GSDs to the different lines:

Breed Types & Related Families
Eva would be of the first Breed Type shown.

Article on the three main types:
(Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )

More info on what Schutzhund is:
(Schutzhund Training, by Wildhaus Kennels )

And an article on GSD temperament that I feel should be compulsory reading for all GSD owners, and love to throw it into my posts every chance I get. Will give you some insight into what people are talking about when they talk about a dog being the right dog for SAR or Schutzhund, or Law Enforcement. 
Elem. of Temperament


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## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

Wow thanks so much for all those resources and explaining this stuff. Knowing she comes from such a successful line, am I a terrible person for getting her fixed? And it seems no one can agree on when the right time is and if its a good idea for a working dog. Can anyone provide some information? Especially experience wise which is best. I'm really leaning towards getting her fixed...but still not sure.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

The Seiger show is what is in Dallas this month (you have the email I sent to the forum folks meeting there).

It is a conformation show not a working trial. There is no tracking or obedience. The working dogs two and over have to do a protection test to even get in the show ring (this is 3:00 Friday on the schedule). Friday the puppy classes up to age one year. Then Saturday the working classes stand for exam and the rest of the younger dogs. Sunday they do the Kennel groups and progeny groups and then the working dog classes. The highlight of the show is the working classes


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

If you are unsure about the spaying issue, can you wait until she turns at least 24 months before you do get it done? It is not something that absolutely needs to be done at say 6 months. That will give you time to see if she is breed worthy or not.


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## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

dawnandjr said:


> If you are unsure about the spaying issue, can you wait until she turns at least 24 months before you do get it done? It is not something that absolutely needs to be done at say 6 months. That will give you time to see if she is breed worthy or not.


For now I'm gonna look over her pedigree when I get her papers in, and also get her evaluated by the local Shutzhund trainer and go from there.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Texas_Eva said:


> Knowing she comes from such a successful line, am I a terrible person for getting her fixed?


Absolutely not. There are many, MANY dogs out there from great lines that are not being bred, nor should they be. And if you're not going to breed her there's no reason not to spay. I agree that you don't need to rush into it, I've never waited 2 years, but I haven't done it at 6 months either. I had Keefer neutered at 15 months and Halo spayed at 13 months.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Nope, no dog _needs_ to be bred. If you want to breed her you're looking at taking her to shows to enter to get her VA or V rating, as well as getting hips and elbows x-rayed and evaluated, and competing in Schutzhund. If you don't plan to do all this and she's going to be "just" a pet, you're better off spaying, but not necessarily at just a few months old.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

German Show lines or West German showlines is what I am doing, though there are nice dogs in all the lines, and excellent characteristics depending on what you are interested in. 

A German Showline dog, to be entered in the Sieger show (the only show in Germany to give VA ratings) they have to have the breed survey (Koer report), endurance test (AD), Schutzhund title, (I f or dogs up to a certain age, III for dogs a year older), hip, elbow, dna done, and go through a protection test the day of the show. If they do not pass the protection phase, they are put at the end of the class, and I guess a lot of people just scratch the dog at that point instead of having them rated V-600 or something like that, and try again next year. Also, most of the dogs being considered VA will have a progeny group to show how well they reproduce themselves. 

American Showlines, it is not like this, but at the Nationals (specialty dogs), they will rate dogs VA if they have some health screenings, and I am not sure what all. AKC does not recognize VA ratings.

Spaying her is up to you. Unless the breeder is co-owning her. You will not be able to show her in conformation if she is fixed. Everything else she can do. No one should feel compelled to have puppies regardless to who is behind their dogs.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Have you actually even gotten her papers yet?


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