# Vitamin E with Fish Oil



## Jmcgreggor

So Dio and I got home from the Vets with pretty much no new knowledge. (Go figure). He has hip dysplasia. Is on Cosequin DS with MSM. I wanted to add another supplement because he is getting a little stiff after playing.

I mentioned using fish oul and she said fish oil would be a good idea but didn't recommend a dose. She said go off of he bottles directions.I also brought up the use of Vitamin E and she said it wasn't necessary. From what i've heard...it is.

My 1 year old dog Dio is 53 lbs. What would be a good EPA and DHA on the fishoil?

Also, Vitamin E? I know I need the D-Alpha Type. But how many UI a day would be good without taking it over board? I've heard 100Ui a day per 25lbs. Would this be a good idea?


I want to get him started on this ASAP so any help would be awesome =) Thanks everyone.


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## Anja1Blue

I use Salmon Oil (one source) as opposed to Fish Oil (multiple source) because I want the Omega 3, not Omega 3 and Omega 6. The 6 should never be needed if you are feeding a premium diet, and it can be problematic if it isn't balanced correctly with the 3. I buy human grade gel CAPS from the health store (Natural Factors is a very good brand) never bottled oil. Omega 3 is very sensitive to light and oxygen, so oil just loose in a bottle will lose its potency pretty quickly, plus it has the tendency to turn rancid. I keep the jar of caps in the refrigerator.....Dose is 1000mg per 20 lbs body weight per day (some people use 10 lbs as a rule of thumb, but I've always had good results using the former.) And very important - you must also add 1 400 IU Vit E gel cap - this helps to maximize absorption of the oil, and provides balance.
______________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## Jmcgreggor

Anja1Blue said:


> I use Salmon Oil (one source) as opposed to Fish Oil (multiple source) because I want the Omega 3, not Omega 3 and Omega 6. The 6 should never be needed if you are feeding a premium diet, and it can be problematic if it isn't balanced correctly with the 3. I buy human grade gel CAPS from the health store (Natural Factors is a very good brand) never bottled oil. Omega 3 is very sensitive to light and oxygen, so oil just loose in a bottle will lose its potency pretty quickly, plus it has the tendency to turn rancid. I keep the jar of caps in the refrigerator.....Dose is 1000mg per 20 lbs body weight per day (some people use 10 lbs as a rule of thumb, but I've always had good results using the former.) And very important - you must also add 1 400 IU Vit E gel cap - this helps to maximize absorption of the oil, and provides balance.
> ______________________________________________
> Susan
> 
> Anja SchH3 GSD
> Conor GSD
> Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:



Darn it. Wish I would of read this sooner. I went and got the Grizzly Salmon Oil as I read great reviews on it. I give him 2 pumps as directed on the bottle. I will have to try the gel caps the next time. Makes good since with the spoiling. I am putting the Grizzly in the fridge though. I am using Innova Large breed puppy right now and has 300Ui of Vitamin E - I know its not nearly as effective in dried kibble but I was worried about too much E. I just started doing 1 400Ui every other day. My pup is only 53 lbs. 

I kinda had to wing it since the vet wasn't helpful with dosage.


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## NancyJ

I keep my Grizzly Salmon oil in the fridge and I have not had any problem with rancidity. A lot of people really like it. Nordic Naturals also comes in liquid form. The bottle is opaque. You can smell when fish oil goes rancid and it only has a very light odor if not.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/259472-the-least-fishy-fish-oil-supplements/


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## Anja1Blue

Jmcgreggor said:


> Darn it. Wish I would of read this sooner. I went and got the Grizzly Salmon Oil as I read great reviews on it. I give him 2 pumps as directed on the bottle. I will have to try the gel caps the next time. Makes good since with the spoiling. I am putting the Grizzly in the fridge though. I am using Innova Large breed puppy right now and has 300Ui of Vitamin E - I know its not nearly as effective in dried kibble but I was worried about too much E. I just started doing 1 400Ui every other day. My pup is only 53 lbs.
> 
> I kinda had to wing it since the vet wasn't helpful with dosage.


Unfortunately, vets are poor sources of information when it comes to nutrition. You have to go elsewhere........ I know that people love Grizzly - but I stand by my opinion (not originally mine BTW, there are a number of nutrition experts that say the same thing) that oils containing fragile substances like Omega-3 will stay potent longer in a gel cap, rather than in a porous (that's the key) glass or plastic bottle alone. In the meantime, no biggie, you are doing the right thing by keeping it in the fridge. As for the Vit E, see how it goes with your current plan.....and let us know how it's working for you.

Just curious - why is your fellow still on puppy food? I feed raw, but when I was using kibble I never fed a puppy formula past 6 months.
_______________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## NancyJ

Newer large breed puppy formulas are a bit lower in protein and calcium than some of the more popular maintanance foods and are labeled AAFCO "all life stages" compared to some of the adult foods such os TOTW which are high in calcium and labled only for "maintenance". I think the days of high protein, high calcium puppy foods are over.


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## Jmcgreggor

Anja1Blue said:


> Unfortunately, vets are poor sources of information when it comes to nutrition. You have to go elsewhere........ I know that people love Grizzly - but I stand by my opinion (not originally mine BTW, there are a number of nutrition experts that say the same thing) that oils containing fragile substances like Omega-3 will stay potent longer in a gel cap, rather than in a porous (that's the key) glass or plastic bottle alone. In the meantime, no biggie, you are doing the right thing by keeping it in the fridge. As for the Vit E, see how it goes with your current plan.....and let us know how it's working for you.
> 
> Just curious - why is your fellow still on puppy food? I feed raw, but when I was using kibble I never fed a puppy formula past 6 months.
> _______________________________________
> Susan
> 
> Anja SchH3 GSD
> Conor GSD
> Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:



OLour orthopedic specialists suggested I leave him on the puppy food for a few extra months. She wants to be sure he is done growing before switching him to an adult food which has more calcium. I'm prob going to switch him when we are almost done with this bag. Probably keep him on innovate large breed because of the extra glucosamine and condroitin in the formula. 

What kibble do you guys use/ suggest? My guy gets the runs with a lot. We tried blue buffalo, California naturals, and orijen. Innovate we got the best results. No more icky messes in the grass. What do you guys think about grain free and hip dysplasia?


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## Jmcgreggor

Jmcgreggor said:


> OLour orthopedic specialists suggested I leave him on the puppy food for a few extra months. She wants to be sure he is done growing before switching him to an adult food which has more calcium. I'm prob going to switch him when we are almost done with this bag. Probably keep him on innovate large breed because of the extra glucosamine and condroitin in the formula.
> 
> What kibble do you guys use/ suggest? My guy gets the runs with a lot. We tried blue buffalo, California naturals, and orijen. Innovate we got the best results. No more icky messes in the grass. What do you guys think about grain free and hip dysplasia?


I hate my phones auto correct-Grrr. Innova Large Breed is what I was trying to say =)


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## Jmcgreggor

jocoyn said:


> I keep my Grizzly Salmon oil in the fridge and I have not had any problem with rancidity. A lot of people really like it. Nordic Naturals also comes in liquid form. The bottle is opaque. You can smell when fish oil goes rancid and it only has a very light odor if not.
> 
> The Least Fishy Fish Oil Supplements | LIVESTRONG.COM



That was a great article. When I opened the grizzly I smelled it right away (curiosity) and it hardly smelled like anything. So I guess if I wanted to feed capsules I would be breaking them and smelling the food to make sure I wasn't giving him something rancid. I'm going to keep with the grizzly and see how it goes over a period of time. According to the Grizzly website this 16oz should last almost two months which has me mildly concerned. (the article said most go bad in a month). I will just trust my nose on this one. 

Thank you!!


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## NancyJ

I have a 64 oz bottle I have used for several months (2 larger dogs) and I have still not noticed an adverse change. That said, I do plan to order a smaller bottle next time.

I know with good pills stored properly you don't get rancidity but I have certainly taken pills (triple strenght, assaysed and guarantted no fish burps) and gotten fish burps. 

I do like that the article gives you insight on evaluating both though.


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## Jmcgreggor

jocoyn said:


> I have a 64 oz bottle I have used for several months (2 larger dogs) and I have still not noticed an adverse change. That said, I do plan to order a smaller bottle next time.
> 
> I know with good pills stored properly you don't get rancidity but I have certainly taken pills (triple strenght, assaysed and guarantted no fish burps) and gotten fish burps.
> 
> I do like that the article gives you insight on evaluating both though.



I guess you can't win either way sometimes lol. I got the 16 oz to try but with the great price of Grizzly (compared to Nordic) I may be putting my other dog on it too. She doesn't have any hip or skin issues but I think it would be a great addition to her Kibble (innova adult).


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## ShenzisMom

I was literally just about to post about this! So, the 'for dummies' version is 
1 400 IU Vit E gel cap x1 per day
Dose is 1000mg per 20 lbs body weight per day (so my 60 pound dog would get 3000mg, so 3 pills of 1000mg) 

Also, could I use human grade from the drug store?


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## Jmcgreggor

ShenzisMom said:


> I was literally just about to post about this! So, the 'for dummies' version is
> 1 400 IU Vit E gel cap x1 per day
> Dose is 1000mg per 20 lbs body weight per day (so my 60 pound dog would get 3000mg, so 3 pills of 1000mg)
> 
> Also, could I use human grade from the drug store?


My vitamin e is human grade from Costco by natures made. After looking into it I found that you really need to go with the natural vitamin e. D-alpha and not synthetic dl-alpha. I guess dogs absorb the natural better. Right now, my dog is 53 lbs and we have the 400iu. His kibble says it has 300iu but I doubt he's benefiting from much of that. So I'm doing 1 400 every other day. Been doing that for a few days..no upset tummy or loose stools so I'm going to stay at that dose.


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## Anja1Blue

Jmcgreggor said:


> That was a great article. When I opened the grizzly I smelled it right away (curiosity) and it hardly smelled like anything. So I guess if I wanted to feed capsules I would be breaking them and smelling the food to make sure I wasn't giving him something rancid. I'm going to keep with the grizzly and see how it goes over a period of time. According to the Grizzly website this 16oz should last almost two months which has me mildly concerned. (the article said most go bad in a month). I will just trust my nose on this one.
> 
> Thank you!!


 You don't open capsules - if they are stored properly they aren't going to go off. 
________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## NancyJ

I think the article is saying if you take capsules you should spot check them. I have gotten fish burps from highly purified, and stored in the refrigerator gel caps before. ......... I could not tell until I got the burps they were rancid...... I don't think you would have to do that with every one.

Just because i stored them properly does not mean they did not spend time at the vendor, or warehouse, etc. Vitamins and additives do not get the same level of scrutiny as pharmaceuticals in terms of temperature controlled storage and distribution.


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## Jmcgreggor

jocoyn said:


> I think the article is saying if you take capsules you should spot check them. I have gotten fish burps from highly purified, and stored in the refrigerator gel caps before. ......... I could not tell until I got the burps they were rancid...... I don't think you would have to do that with every one.
> 
> Just because i stored them properly does not mean they did not spend time at the vendor, or warehouse, etc. Vitamins and additives do not get the same level of scrutiny as pharmaceuticals in terms of temperature controlled storage and distribution.


Makes perfect sense. You never know what your going to get because you never 100% know where its coming from anymore. I was actually surprised how non fishy the grizzly was and the color looked really nice. My dog agrees that its mighty tasty too.


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## lorihd

i just saw on the news the other day, vitamin e can be toxic to humans if given too much. better check for dogs


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## NancyJ

Well, Dr Clemmons at U of F was stating dogs with DM should recieve 2000 IU of Vitamin E daily and this is an article on vitamin toxicities in dogs, unfortunately it is a web article.

Fat Soluble Vitamins: Vitamin A, D, E, & K in Dogs

Certainly, I think other issues with overdosing as Vitamin E can impair absorbtion of Vitamins A and K.......everything in balance. I think a lot of folks have used the 400IU formula though. I don't know of any good articles on vitamin requirements in dogs. Even checked the Merck manual online.


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## Jmcgreggor

jocoyn said:


> Well, Dr Clemmons at U of F was stating dogs with DM should recieve 2000 IU of Vitamin E daily and this is an article on vitamin toxicities in dogs, unfortunately it is a web article.
> 
> Fat Soluble Vitamins: Vitamin A, D, E, & K in Dogs
> 
> Certainly, I think other issues with overdosing as Vitamin E can impair absorbtion of Vitamins A and K.......everything in balance. I think a lot of folks have used the 400IU formula though. I don't know of any good articles on vitamin requirements in dogs. Even checked the Merck manual online.


Was that article saying 23 ii per lb of dog or per lb of food. It was a little confusing.


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## Laney

Alright, I have been reading through all of these salmon oil threads and I think I understand, but there is so much information (a lot of which is contradicting) so I was hoping for a quick summary of what I should be giving. I just want to make sure my boy stays healthy and I am not going to compromise his well-being by giving too much or too little of something. 
My boy just turned 10 months old. He weighs about 60 lbs. I bought Grizzly Salmon Oil and I am following the instructions on the bottle of how much to give him. I believe its one pump per 10 lbs twice a day (I have also found a lot of different dosage suggestions and I want to make sure that this is the best for him). I also bought vitamin E capsules (d-alpha type) and I give him one every other day. I want to make sure this is enough since he is getting salmon oil every day. 
Would love ANY suggestions, especially from experienced GSD owners. 
Thank you in advance.


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## Jmcgreggor

just to give everyone a little update. Dio has been doing very well on the Grizzly Fish oil and vitamin e. His coat is gorgeous, not shedding as much, and I do notice a difference in his hips. He doesn't seem to get as stiff as he was before. A little more pep in his step. after seeing these results in just a month I will def be keeping him on this regimen. Thank you everyone for your help.


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