# Breeder types



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I came across this tonight and thought I'd share

Types of Breeders


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

It looks good on paper!!:smirk:


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think the intent was good but disagree with some of it. For one....the price column. Since when are puppy mill dogs the LOWEST price? Usually they are high if not highest. Also I don't see the difference, or the importance between the "reputable hobby" breeder and "reputable experienced" breeder. IMO a good breeder is a good breeder.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I am not sure life can fit so neatly in little boxes


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Consider the source.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Liesje said:


> I think the intent was good but disagree with some of it. For one....the price column. Since when are puppy mill dogs the LOWEST price? Usually they are high if not highest.


Maybe if they are going by the wholesale prices that mills are paid by brokers who then sell to pet stores. Otherwise, yes, once they hit the pet store they are usually the most expensive.


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## emusdad (Apr 14, 2010)

yes they are expensive. My local animart has mix breed dogs starting at $600


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Liesje said:


> I think the intent was good but disagree with some of it. For one....the price column. Since when are puppy mill dogs the LOWEST price? Usually they are high if not highest. Also I don't see the difference, or the importance between the "reputable hobby" breeder and "reputable experienced" breeder. IMO a good breeder is a good breeder.


Around here most people think a hobby breeder is the same as a backyard breeder so I liked the seperate box for hobby breeder, but I agree a good breeder is just a good breeder


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

sagelfn said:


> I came across this tonight and thought I'd share
> 
> Types of Breeders


Thanks for finding and posting that, now saved to my Favorites!


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I think a "table" format like that is very limited in the amount of information it can provide. It seems to be designed as a very quick and general overview in the kinds of things people might see that most likely make a breeder fall into one of those categories. As that, it works. 

But I agree with Liesje, since when are puppy mills "low" priced?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

angelas said:


> Maybe if they are going by the wholesale prices that mills are paid by brokers who then sell to pet stores. Otherwise, yes, once they hit the pet store they are usually the most expensive.


*Have you ever seen an 8 week old GSD puppy for sale at $2,500 - $5,000? I haven't so i think that some breeders are much higher than pet stores.*


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I read through it the other day. It does break things up a bit better than just writing a paragraph about each type. I did not agree with everything. 

But there are so many ideas about what a puppy mill is and what a BYB is and what a hobby breeder is that it would be nice for people to be pretty clear on the different types. I think that this was a pretty good attempt.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

What are the prices for puppies from the Henkels, Mittleweist, Tiekerhook, kennels. How would these kennels fit into that schematic??


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I would assume the above kennels take good care of their dogs and puppies so if I liked the breeding and could afford it I wouldn't care. I am not sure how it is any different than a Wildhaus puppy on this board(price might be different) Think you can get good quality puppies from other breeders that aren't as well known...but that's just a decision a buyer is making


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

codmaster said:


> *Have you ever seen an 8 week old GSD puppy for sale at $2,500 - $5,000? I haven't so i think that some breeders are much higher than pet stores.*


GSD, nope. "Super tiny", "teacup", "toy" Chis, Maltese, Yorkies, and mixes there of I have seen listed at $10,000+. And that was 5 years+ ago when I was following them more. But then, GSDs were the big selling pet store breeds then, it was mostly toy breeds and Bulldogs.


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## dianefbarfield (Apr 12, 2010)

*may I add a comment?*

I just wanted to say that the breeder we got Lizzie from was licensed by the state of Georgia and apparently took very good care of her puppies. When you visited her shop, you had to sanitize your hands and you could not put the puppies on the floor unless you were in the correct area. She was very professional acting. 

However, when we found out that Lizzie was sick, and she was investigated, it was found that someone else was raising the GSD and they were housed in a place that was not inspected. She was closed down and the GSD all quarantined and sold.

Just a comment to remind everyone to be careful and go visit where your dog lives.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Sometimes "licenses" and "inspections" are actually a turn off for me. Depending on where and who, often those are only required of people/kennels producing more than a certain number of litters per year. While I don't have any hard fast number of how many litters are OK with me and how many are not, generally those advertising kennel inspections and licenses as if they are some certification of reputable breeding are throwing up lots of red flags in other areas.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I have to agree with Liesje on that.

Our local pet store has a big sign that they "don't support disreputable breeders" and "all facilities they get their puppies from are USDA inspected". In most states, kennels that produce more than x amount of dogs (I think it's 250?) in a year are required to be USDA licensed and inspected. That many dogs would be something that would be a big turn-off and red flag for me.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Last time I checked the requirements for USDA licensing was selling whole sale (not to the end buyer, the eventual puppy owner) and owning 3 or more breeding/able females. It mentioned nothing about how many litters/puppies sold.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

In Georgia, you are required to have a license if you have more than 1 litter per year. It is through Georgia Department of Agriculture.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I went and looked it up, it's in the Animal Welfare Act (AWA) and full regulations can be found here - http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_welfare/downloads/awr/awr.pdf

The USDA gives three types of licenses (called A, B, and C class licenses). According to the AWA, the following are exempt from having to be licensed - any pet store, anyone who makes less than $500 a year from selling animals, and anyone who owns three or less breeding females, and anyone who produces and sells less than 25 pets per year. If you produce more than 25 pets a year, even if you sell directly to the eventual owner, you'd still have to be licensed and inspected by the USDA.

Where I was confused regarding how many litters/puppies are sold was from the different classifications of kennel licenses (for example, PA has different classifications of licenses based on how many animals are bred/sold at the facility.) My bad, I confused the one with the other. Individual states' Departments of Agriculture may also have their own rules.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Not sure of the number in new york but I don't think that it is really high


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Georgia Dept of Ag.
I will bet a LOT of Georgia breeders could get fined!


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

http://www.agmkt.state.ny.us/AI/small_animals/AnaBrochure.pdf
Those are the licensing requirements for New York.

New York defines a Pet Dealer as someone who sells 9 or more animals to the public, or anyone who sells more than 25 animals that were born and raised on their premises to the public. That includes breeders, pet stores, brokers, rescues, and Humane Societies.


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## WynterCote (Feb 15, 2010)

I would like to see two more rows...

"Total # of animals produced each year in the US"

"% of animals that end up in shelters or missing"

It's probably impossible to determine accurately, but I could guess a trend would be apparent. The numbers would help customers, legislators, and probably lend support to good breeders.


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## dianefbarfield (Apr 12, 2010)

Yes, this breeder had a license through the Georgia Department of Ag. and she had a wonderful website that warned about "puppy mills". She had several types of small dogs and they were well kept and very healthy. For some reason, she decided to try GSD and had another person raising them.....when we contacted the GDA, they acted immediately to investigate, quarantine, and take the dogs. I have a copy of the report. They found bad conditions at the farm where the GSD were bred. We thought we had been careful and learned a lesson.


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