# LF: (W)PA/OH(NE) Breeder (PGH-CLE-AKR)



## McM (Mar 31, 2014)

We're in the market for a GS again. We currently have a 2.5 y.o. Lab mix. Our kids are 12.5,9,6. I'm looking for a reasonable priced breeder somewhere in the Cleveland-Akron, Erie-Pittsburgh region. Feel free to PM me if you know one.

I've been looking for family pet/stranger deterant/companion for our dog (not show dog) GS or Dutch shepherd for going on three years. I'm early 40s, and if I'm ever going to get my GS now's the time. I'd like to get yard training over before the snows come. Within the next month maybe?

I've tried kennels and rescues, searched $$$ breeders and avoided Amish puppy mills. My search history will tell the one attempt at a "rescue" GS.

I've found a breeder about an hour or so from me and emailed them few times. I have an appointment this weekend to look over some pups and maybe make a deposit.

Frost Kennels; Louisville,Ohio

I only saw one thread here, and mixed opinions. If not here, where? I'm exhausted with the search. About every six months I look around and I'm not finding anything else.

Can anyone help a guy out here?


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Personally, if you're looking for something that's also to be a family pet, I would not be looking at Dutch Shepherds. If you're a first time working dog owner, I would definitely not be looking at Dutch Shepherds. Sorry, I can't help you about the kennel.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Frost? The guy that released the dogs on Dakota Pipeline protesters that were not showing any threatening behavior? That Frost? The dogs that where loosed into a crowd and attacked a horse? 

You might want to keep looking.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Pretty much good breeders with current litters have reservations for the litters even before the breeding takes place....they dont know the numbers and sexes, so they may have 1 or 2 pups in a litter of 6-8 unreserved. 

The kennel you cite is one which is well known among people in the breed - I doubt you will get positive feedback.


I think that there may be a pup available in a litter in Kentucky (lexington area) - you can contact me for contact info via regular email or PM here - there are some big big big red flag breeders in the areas you cite that you should stay away from for sure


Lee


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## McM (Mar 31, 2014)

Yeah, this all I've heard for three years,"There are no good breeders near you for hundreds of miles, go travel 6 hours and spend $2500 on a puppy." "Wait for three years for a $3000 pup from the New Skete monks." I've heard 100 "Don't go to THAT guy!" about 99 different breeders. "Give me a $600 deposit now, and you might have a puppy in four to eight months..."

The Amish mills have saturated this area with problem pups. I recognize that issue for sure.

I'm really about to give up. I'm so frustrated. I can't go to Kentucky or North Carolina for a dog, and I refuse to buy a puppy I haven't met and spent time with. 

Apparently I shouldn't even bother with trying to get a German Shepherd. I've tried this for three years. I'm near done with this.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I would not write off having a puppy shipped.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

You can get referrals for good breeders here from members of our group. After some contact, if you trust them, a good breeder will place a dog that is a good fit for you according to your conversations. That might entail shipping. If you want a cheaper dog, then check out rescues. Some rescues place out of state, so that will widen your search. Sometimes out-of-state rescues will help transport (meet you half way, etc.)

Ultimately, a good breeder will be able to pick a better puppy for you than you might pick yourself. They know their dogs and have more experience in placing pups. JMO. Good luck!


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Don't give up. You are going to have this GSD for many years, so you want a good one. Lee (Wolfstraum) has offered to help you, I would contact him. A good breeder will know which pup would fit best for what you want, and if you haven't had a GSD before, that knowledge can make a world of difference! You may have to ship or take a long trip, but the dog you get will be well worth it.


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## McM (Mar 31, 2014)

Thank you for the suggestions so far.

Despite the account age, I don't have enough posts to send messages yet.

Here is basically what I have personally ran into the past three years:

1. Amish Puppy Mill dogs.
2. No rescues in my area that adopt. 
3. The regional GSD club's web page has been hijacked by Korean website pirates, so I can't contact them. --> http://gsdcwpa.org
4. If a GS of any age hits the municipal pounds, it is pulled within 24 hours by 6-12 vanity "rescue organizations" or puppy flippers.
5. Puppy "flippers" disguised as "rescues". You know the type, usually a middle aged woman that gets $30 dogs from kennels gets them a round of shots and de-wormed then lists them as "rescued" and wants a $450 "adoption fee".

Years, and years, and years of this.

I really am utterly sick of it all. I'm even considering switch the breed I'm looking for... a Giant Schnauzer maybe, or something. I really am disgusted by the whole thing.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Well, if you think getting a good GSD is hard, good luck finding a GS breeder. I know a couple of them and they aren't common.

You've been on this forum for two years and there are multiple threads on finding a good breeder. What I do not see on that list of things you've done is actually contacting the AKC, finding clubs in your area to visit. Or looking on the USCA website and going to clubs. I bet there are 5 USCA clubs within 5 hours of you. If you had done that, you would have been able to see some Wolfstraum dogs in at least 2 of them. Several other good breeders are in Ohio. Valerie Miller is in Ohio. Ibso is in southern PA. There is also the GSDCA which is comprised mostly of show lines but there are several good breeders thru there that can give you exactly what you describe you want.

So maybe the problem is the limitations you are putting on yourself and not any actual difficulty in finding a good breeder.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

If you want to jump into the GSD world, jump in. 

Go to trials, matches, shows. Meet people, introduce yourself. Rescues (around here) have fund raisers all the time. Ice cream socials, wing night at restaurants, fundraising walks in parks. Go, introduce yourself, bring donuts, throw a few bucks in the jar.

After you start to meet the people active in your area, you will no longer be a blind unknown on the phone. Instead of "Hi Mr. breeder, my name is John and I'm looking for a male puppy at XX price", you'll be in this position - "Hi Jim, this is John. We met last week at the show in Springfield, and I was hoping we could talk a little bit more about your dogs"..... And off you go. When an older puppy or adult is returned, they may think of you first. When they hear of a nice litter an hour away, your face may come to mind and they'll shoot you a message.

Some breeders don't have a big online presence. Rescues are volunteers, that may well have stressful jobs and families. You may need to invest the footwork and get out there, and start meeting them.


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## McM (Mar 31, 2014)

Every time I see a decent looking GS at a event or a park I ask the owner about their dog. Not one has bought their dog anyplace close by. Zero. "I don't know, it's my husband's dog" "We moved here from New York City" "Dog pound" etcetera. "Old police dog that retired."

Yeah, traveling five hours to meet dog is definitely a limitation that I feel is reasonable. Five hours? Give me a break. I don't think some people realize how big Pennsylvania is. It isn't Texas, but it is 5-7 hours from one end to the other. I'm about as far west as you can go and still in Pennsylvania. GS are the second most popular breed in the US, but I should have to travel five hours to find one, and shame on me if I don't?

Yeah, I did go to the AKC website previously. I never checked with a SH or performance club because I wasn't really aware of them, and I'm not really interested in herding work or schutzhund. If you can link me to the "walk on the crop farm, play ball with my kids, and bark at the Jehovah's Witnesses club" I'll pay the annual dues. I posted links to area clubs that are dead ends. Maybe I just find the "right" clubs.

I'm looking for a family pet; not a lifestyle, more activities, or a mutual admiration society. Buying a dog shouldn't be turnkey, but it shouldn't be an internship and a state certification test either.

Spend twenty-odd hours watching events that I technically can't participate in. Miss my children's sports and activities. Reschedule my family's weekend commitments. Drive five hours each way. Then maybe after enough time has passed and I've waited on the porch for three days and nights they'll deign to sell me a dog. Got it.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

McM said:


> Every time I see a decent looking GS at a event or a park I ask the owner about their dog. Not one has bought their dog anyplace close by. Zero. "I don't know, it's my husband's dog" "We moved here from New York City" "Dog pound" etcetera. "Old police dog that retired."
> 
> Yeah, traveling five hours to meet dog is definitely a limitation that I feel is reasonable. Five hours? Give me a break. I don't think some people realize how big Pennsylvania is. It isn't Texas, but it is 5-7 hours from one end to the other. I'm about as far west as you can go and still in Pennsylvania. GS are the second most popular breed in the US, but I should have to travel five hours to find one, and shame on me if I don't?
> 
> ...


That's not the point a few of us are trying to make.... Breed specific shows and trials provide an opportunity to meet dozens of enthusiasts (including breeders) in one geographic location at one point in time. Going to one event is a smart use of time. 

You don't need to compete in Schutzhund or Conformation (or herding or anything else) in order to have a wonderful companion dog. But you will be statistically more likely to meet German Shepherd people at German Shepherd events.


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## McM (Mar 31, 2014)

Actually, this thread has been a help. When I wasn't being chastised there were a few breeders mentioned and websites I hadn't seen.

I called two of them, had very good conversations with each, and will be filling out the information for a litter that is ready to be born, or a month or so out. Like I said not turnkey, but not the Spanish Inquisition either. I still have a few more to explore. Both were within two hours of our home. Two, not five.

In all sincerity, thank you for your assistance and I'm open to any more you'd like to offer. At the same time, you have to realize that not everybody needs a "GS lifestyle" and centers their life around their dog. In my family our current dog gets a lot of exercise, attention, and is an important member of the family. He isn't the center of it, but he is a valuable part of it.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

A dog is a part of the family. But it has to be trained and socialized, especially a working breed. If you want to be able to have a safe dog, one that obeys and is a part of you family you will need to take it to puppy classes, obedience classes, to businesses that allow puppies in them like Lowes, Pet Smart or Tractor Supply. This is no matter the breed of working dog you choose. That will cut into family time. Or make those times family times. The first GSD I looked at was 8 hours away. I was willing to be gone for 2 days in order to get the right dog for my family. I planned it around family activities. I found out the dog was no longer available. Search on again. The next dog was three hours away. It turned out to not be the right temperament. Search on again. There were plenty of ads on craigslist, etc., but I wanted a dog that had the whole package to be the best family pet, be able to travel with me long distances and do the activities I choose to do with it. That meant being very picky and if needed, willing to take time out of my time with family and activities to achieve it. I found Enya three hours away. One of my sons went with me. She was expensive to my budget. She is everything my family and I wanted.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

McM said:


> Actually, this thread has been a help. When I wasn't being chastised there were a few breeders mentioned and websites I hadn't seen.
> 
> I called two of them, had very good conversations with each, and will be filling out the information for a litter that is ready to be born, or a month or so out. Like I said not turnkey, but not the Spanish Inquisition either. I still have a few more to explore. Both were within two hours of our home. Two, not five.
> 
> In all sincerity, thank you for your assistance and I'm open to any more you'd like to offer. At the same time, you have to realize that not everybody needs a "GS lifestyle" and centers their life around their dog. In my family our current dog gets a lot of exercise, attention, and is an important member of the family. He isn't the center of it, but he is a valuable part of it.



This is awesome to hear! Do keep us updated and share pictures of your new pup!


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## McM (Mar 31, 2014)

When it rains it pours. I'm beginning to be optimistic. Aside from the two breeders mentioned above I reached out to two more groups that don't have dogs now, but gave me a lead for breeders (that I never heard of before) in that same two hour radius.

I went back to an old well and re-called a police dog training facility close to us and asked about reputable breeders or "washout" dogs. They e-mailed me back with a recommendation on someone to talk to that works/trains with them sometimes. After phone call and a few suggestions, they offered to put some feelers out among their training partners and see if there is anything available in the near future.

All that before dinner time/ people come home from work.

No sure thing yet, but a definite improvement in the quality of breeders and dogs to follow up on. 
Whew.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I am getting my second german shepherd from (not second in my lifetime, second from this breeder)..kleinenhain this tuesday..She has a couple available out of a litter of 9. She is in KY not sure how close that is to you, she usually will either ship or meet halfway I think..She does have a website, is on FB, titles, health tests etc..her name is wanda brown..


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I am in Pittsburgh - I have produced quite a few nice titled dogs - but most are companion family members too - actually almost all are as I do not knowingly sell to anyone who plans on just keeping them in a kennel and competing. My females are health tested and have a good record of producing healthy dogs....have you ever contacted me??? I don't usually have available puppies constantly....but have a waiting list.....of the clubs that are listed on the USCA website, I know at least 3 of them have members who have had litters in the last year....I sent a few people to a couple of the breeders Jax has mentioned as well - a couple of the litters have been work x show crosses, and the people I referred got nice companion dogs.


I mentioned the litter in KY because there might be ONE pup available right now.....since you don't want to be on a waiting list....

the problem is that the commercially motivated breeders saturate the market, push their pups like crazy via many many many websites and charge as much or more as a good conscientious breeder. Good puppies are NOT cheap to produce.....one litter may give you good cash return and the next cost you $6000 in vet bills....why should any breeder who invests time, money, energy in their females and litters not make a return on that investment???? Over the course of a half dozen litters (which for me was over 5 years), there is rarely more profit than can be earned by working in a fast food restaurant for the same time period!!! So even if you think the pups are $$$$$ - unless the breeder is doing 5-10+ litters a year, they are not living off those litters!


Lee (she not he)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Contact the German Shepherd Dog Club of Northern Ohio. They can tell you of breeders in the club that currently have litters. However, they are probably American Show line, though some have German dogs.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

McM said:


> '
> Yeah, traveling five hours to meet dog is definitely a limitation that I feel is reasonable. Five hours? Give me a break. I don't think some people realize how big Pennsylvania is.


Well I'm from PA so I get that it's a big state but if you've had years of unsuccessful dog hunting that's a lot of time wasted. If you expanded your search you might have to dedicate a weekend to driving but then it would be over.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

McM said:


> Yeah, traveling five hours to meet dog is definitely a limitation that I feel is reasonable. Five hours? Give me a break. I don't think some people realize how big Pennsylvania is. It isn't Texas, but it is 5-7 hours from one end to the other. I'm about as far west as you can go and still in Pennsylvania. GS are the second most popular breed in the US, but I should have to travel five hours to find one, and shame on me if I don't?


I live in Texas, and one of the Doberman Pinscher breeders I am seriously considering is in Virginia, and another is in Georgia. Finding the right breeder, and then waiting for the right puppy, would make it worth the effort, IMO.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

McM said:


> Yeah, traveling five hours to meet dog is definitely a limitation that I feel is reasonable. Five hours? Give me a break. I don't think some people realize how big Pennsylvania is. It isn't Texas, but it is 5-7 hours from one end to the other. I'm about as far west as you can go and still in Pennsylvania. GS are the second most popular breed in the US, but I should have to travel five hours to find one, and shame on me if I don't?
> 
> Yeah, I did go to the AKC website previously. I never checked with a SH or performance club because I wasn't really aware of them, and I'm not really interested in herding work or schutzhund.



Quite a few clubs & groups not far from Mercer PA - 

1. Greenville 
2. Dalton OH
3. Diamond OH (near Youngstown)
4. Seville OH (just past Akron)
5. Darlington PA (group soon to be a club) 
6. Buffalo/Amherst NY

and I would be very very very careful getting a washout from a LE program (Shallow Creek????)...................without experience in the breed and training, it could be more than you are prepared to handle


Lee

Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

LeoRose said:


> I live in Texas, and one of the Doberman Pinscher breeders I am seriously considering is in Virginia, and another is in Georgia. Finding the right breeder, and then waiting for the right puppy, would make it worth the effort, IMO.



I train with a Doberman breeder who has very nice European lines!!!!  and some pups on the ground and available - one of my AKC friends just got a puppy and is tickled to death with it


Lee


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I'm in Western PA. I've bred two litters in sixteen years. I actually belong to the GSDC of WPA (which has a Facebook page).

I've shipped dogs to Washington (state). One of my puppies went to a home in Chicago....they drove 10 hours in the middle of winter just to *meet* the puppy I had available...


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

We live in Tennessee but drove to Ohio to pick up our last puppy. The breeder is actually in Michigan and drove to meet us halfway because they don't ship puppies. Our other GSD came from Georgia, which is much closer. I went about 10 years without a GSD while I was renting, and I'm so glad to have GSDs in my life again. After waiting so long, I wanted to find the right puppies and start out with reputable breeders. I hope you find your pup soon. I'm sure he or she will be worth the wait.


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