# tug of war and aggression



## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

Hi there,

Facts preferred but personal opinions and/or experiences welcome. 

Does playing tug of war with a dog lead to or encourage aggression, or would it be a way of releasing excess aggressive energy to play tug of war?

Thanks,


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I'd say a good, controlled game of tug is an EXCELLENT mental and physical energy burner as well as one of the BEST rewards for a job well done. By "controlled," the dog should out the tug on command and still be able to perform obedience commands and the handler must "win" the tug at the end to put away. Plus, if he accidentally finds my hand instead of the tug, game's over- I do want him to be judicious with where that mouthful of teeth ends up. Once those rules are there, GO NUTS!







Renji LOOOOVES tug and we usually play tug in agility training.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Yes! Excellent way to play with your dog! But remember: It is YOUR tug, and YOUR rules! 

Now go have fun!


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## CainGSD (Nov 15, 2003)

Cain LOVES playing tug and we use it for a reward for a job well done also. Cain is very good at outing on command and does respond to other OB commands while playing tug. Since those tools are in place if he does an exceptional job, I let him win the tug away from me and he is SO PROUD of himself. Of course the goofy boy always runs back to me with the toy to play more tug.


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

I feel tug of war is fine, the very fav. game with many working dogs I train with. One thing to keep in mind is when I play tug I decide when we start and I say when the game is over. And if I want the tug its mine and the dog gives it up. I let them "win" the game frequently and have never seen that it makes the dog "dominant" as I had been told before. Also there is nothing like playing tug with an 80 lb dog pulling for all its worth to give a great upper body work out....just don't play on slick ground....ouch


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

i play tug, sometimes i win and sometimes i let him win...no problems so far. usually when i let go he looks at me like "is that all u got?" letting the dog win is also a very good confidence builder.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

I'm all for a good tug game, but as others have pointed out, the tug essentially belongs to you - you decide when the game starts and ends. And yes, is it a great way to help build confidence in a dog









I do also personally believe that teaching the "out" command is a very important element in this game though - IMHO it may help to prevent potential conflict later on with certain dogs.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's MomHi there,
> 
> Facts preferred but personal opinions and/or experiences welcome.
> 
> ...


The only way that tug can lead to aggression is if you combine the right dog (very possessive, strong and civil) with the wrong game of tug (not teaching an out positively, not having any structure for beginning and end of the game as well as letting them leave play time with the object). Even then, it is not definite that aggression will develop. I speak from experience, as I have a dog that would fit the "right dog" profile. He came to live with me at 3.5 years of age. He is what I would call EXTREMELY possessive of a ball. On top of that, I immediately began playing tug with him literally the day after I got him and went to work building drive when I did not need to build anything. I let him possess the ball at the end of our sessions and made him a bit nuts. While this did create outing issues, this did not create aggression from him towards me. 

Tug, when structured can build confidence in dogs that need it. It can also forge a bond way beyond just walking a dog. As others have mentioned, adding structure and a solid out is necessary.


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## george1990 (Nov 24, 2008)

How do you guys train the dogs to "out?" Just wondering.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

I'm definitely not an expert when it comes to behavior or training, but from my own personal experience...

I just recently started playing tug with Gunner (about a year ago) and I haven't seen any increase in aggression or possessiveness. He still has not one aggressive bone in his body. 

That said, Gunner was so _non_-possessive to start with that he wouldn't play tug before. The minute I'd give a good pull, he'd let go. After we got Riley and Gunner would see me playing tug with him, I guess he decided that it looked like fun, or realized that it was okay, and started to play with me. Now, he likes it. 

With him, since I still have to encourage him a bit to play tug in the first place, I let him "win" occasionally. About two-thirds of the time, I keep the tug at the end of the game and about a third of the time, I let him keep it. But again, that's only because he's not possessive at all. If I win every time, I'm afraid that he'd see no incentive to play the game. 

Like John said, I think a solid out is crucial. I wouldn't play tug with a young pup or a dog that didn't have a very good grasp of a 'let go' or 'enough.' I'd be afraid of confusing them if every time I tried to take something from them, they thought we were entering into a game of keep-away.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I have taught a good "out" by using it not only in tug, but also in fetch. If I want him to drop the ball, I give him the out command, something which was helped reinforced by using two balls- dog has one ball in mouth, I say "aus" (out) and show the other ball, dog drops first ball, I mark that behavior and toss the second ball and repeat. With tugging, I'll go from playing an active game of tug to standing very, very still. I then say "aus," wait for complete release, mark the behavior, and IMMEDIATELY go back into tugging mode! This is a very motivational way of learning the out- the dog learns that the sooner he outs, the sooner the game goes on! We keep doing this even though he has a very reliable out just because I don't want him to learn that aus = game over. Aus = maybe game over, maybe more playtime. If you have a very food-motivated dog, you can say out and trade for a favorite snack, then go back to playing, out, snack, play. Then the dog will learn that outs mean treats as well.

I do suggest letting the dog win the tug throughout the game but at the end of the game ALWAYS possess the tug yourself. For some dogs this may not be a big deal but for others this is important. Tug should be a game that only happens by your grace and the tug toy should be YOUR toy that you invite the dog to enjoy with you.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: DianaMWith tugging, I'll go from playing an active game of tug to standing very, very still. I then say "aus," wait for complete release, mark the behavior, and IMMEDIATELY go back into tugging mode! This is a very motivational way of learning the out- the dog learns that the sooner he outs, the sooner the game goes on! We keep doing this even though he has a very reliable out just because I don't want him to learn that aus = game over. Aus = maybe game over, maybe more playtime. If you have a very food-motivated dog, you can say out and trade for a favorite snack, then go back to playing, out, snack, play. Then the dog will learn that outs mean treats as well.
> 
> I do suggest letting the dog win the tug throughout the game but at the end of the game ALWAYS possess the tug yourself. For some dogs this may not be a big deal but for others this is important. Tug should be a game that only happens by your grace and the tug toy should be YOUR toy that you invite the dog to enjoy with you.


I cannot agree more with every single word above. This is FAR AND ABOVE the best way to teach an out including markers and all. If you want to see a high level sport competitor train with markers go to a Michael Ellis seminar - in my opinion the best seminar you could attend hands down (admittedly, I have not seen Ivan yet). Nothing wrong with letting the dog win, especially if you are trying to build dogs confidence. I will even act overwhelmed and let a dog like this pull me around a bit before I give in and let go. I interact with my female like this during most training sessions. My male on the other hand, is the dog it's important to end the game when I out him and put away the ball and say "that's all". No need to show anything but calm strength with him - he needs no more confidence.

You can teach the out using compulsion or flanking, but if you do not have the proper relationship with the dog you'll be in for trouble. My Diesel literally tried to take off Bernhard Flinks face at a seminar when he was given a prong correction to out.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I agree with John. It is important to set the rules, and all of the posts above are right, but is important also to let the dog to have some fun. There is no need to see tugging as something you have to be THAT aware of screw up and convert your dog in a monster because, after all, is a game and only one between many ways you interact with your dog everyday.

If the dog is possessive and has a tendency to want to have the thing his way, then yes, well established rules are important, but in puppies or other dogs that need a confidence booster is also a way to improve it letting them win more often than not.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

Ok, we got a tug toy. This one is a thick rope figure 8 style, for lack of a better description. Once we get going, it's fun, but the getting going part is what I need to check on now. He doesn't utomatically grab on and start playing. We have to coax him quite a bit. I don't like how my hubby does this and so before I start a battle I'd like to check with those who are more experienced. Goal is to promote confidence and help him work out some aggression or excitement. 

I coax him by holding it towards his mouth and speak excitedly "Tug!" over and over. I walk around with it a bit, sometimes, kind of swing it towards him kind of thing.

Hubby taps him and pokes at him with the tug, excitedly speaking "tug!" as well. It's like he's trying irritate him with the tug so that he'll go for it like "get that thing away from me" or something. It's hard to explain. He's not hurting the dog physically, but I'm thinking this just doesn't seem to be the ideal approach to coax him to play. 

Best ideas for starting the game if your dog doesn't just automatically "latch on and let's go!" ????????


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Honestly, what you're doing sounds confusing to me and it might be for your dog as well. How about taking out the toy and erupting into a fit of happiness, saying goofy things like "OHMYGOSH look at this TOY wowweeeeee!" Wave it around all over the place, swish it around the floor, and as soon as you see your dog get interested in it, put it away. Repeat this several times a day. What you're doing is building frustration for the toy. Your dog is going to start thinking, "Man, that toy is looking cooler and cooler each time, but they won't let me get at it! I'll have to be quicker next time." Don't rush this part, just keep building him up on it. Play tug with you and hubby, letting your dog watch and try to join in. Then one day, when it's hard to keep him away from the toy, let him grab it, then make a big deal about it and see if he'll tug back. If he does, even just a little, let him win the tug and make a HUGE DEAL about what a strong boy he is. Let him parade around with it. Play chase with him. Let him get super confident and think that winning is awesome. 

With each successful session, you can tug longer and longer. Also, some tug toys in pet stores just aren't very good tug toys. What I use that works AWESOME is a braided tug I made out of an old towel and old fleece sweater. Woven into the tug is a rabbit pelt. My gosh, that has really increased interest in the tug! It's long, about 2.5 feet, which helps a lot, it probably feels very nice in the mouth for the dog, it's wiggly and wobbly and floppy, and it's cheap. Even without the rabbit pelt it's great. My previous tug was also a towel tug I braided and knotted at either end. My next tug is either going to be a leather or fire hose tug that can be bought at the schutzhund/working dog supply stores. I really am not impressed with the tug toys available at most chain pet stores.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Get a real tug like pictured below. Something that he can really sink his teeth into and you can be confortable tugging on. Then, move it all over. Think rabbit on crack. Clip it to a leash if you get tired. The second he puts teeth on it praise him and have fun. Remember, this is new to him and he need to learn it's OK. Don't hit him with it. Don't let him chew on it by himself, because he'll destroy it in no time.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's MomOk, we got a tug toy. This one is a thick rope figure 8 style, for lack of a better description. Once we get going, it's fun, but the getting going part is what I need to check on now. He doesn't utomatically grab on and start playing. We have to coax him quite a bit. I don't like how my hubby does this and so before I start a battle I'd like to check with those who are more experienced. Goal is to promote confidence and help him work out some aggression or excitement.
> 
> I coax him by holding it towards his mouth and speak excitedly "Tug!" over and over. I walk around with it a bit, sometimes, kind of swing it towards him kind of thing.
> 
> ...


First, I would try a new toy. My Nikon will tug ANYTHING that moves EXCEPT a rope tug. None of my dogs care for rope tugs and they chew them rather than tug them. The breeder said the same thing, a lot of dogs are not interested in them.

Right now, the dogs' favorite tug is this hand made toy I bought from the breeder. It's made for "reluctant tuggers" and even my Kenya who won't even tug on a tube sock with raw chicken tugged on it! It's basically some furry fabric that you insert an empty plastic bottle into. The just LOVE scrunching down on that texture. I like the size b/c I can hold it up and let the dogs really lunge for it.

Here is the web site that's on the toy:
http://web.mac.com/mtrebino/Site/Welcome.html

Nikon with his









I also love the tug that John suggested. That is *my* favorite, though it took Nikon a while to get into it, maybe b/c it was big for him as a wee pup. It's softer so encourages them to clamp down. The material is good, and I like the handles on each end.









Also, we love the flirt pole. I use this one to get the dog really worked up, barking and panting and leaping and lunging for it. I like to backtie him or hold him back and flutter it in front of him. He lights up, barking nonstop until I let him go for it. Once he gets this one, he likes to do the tug position where he's really working his butt down and jerking hard against it, so I assume what DH and I call the "deep sea fishing" stance where I brace one leg in front of the other and hold it like I would a big fishing rod and just let him tug and tug.









One thing that helps my Kenya and helped Nikon when he was really little was holding the tug off to the side, so that the dog is less intimidated than if you are tugging face to face. The flirt pole tug and that hand made one have the pole or rope that puts some distance between you and the dog so that can help with a dog that is less confident.

I think with a reluctant tugger like my Kenya you really really need to make it like live prey, find the one thing that works for the dog and go with it. For Kenya, there needs to be distance between us or she is intimidated by me. Right now the only thing she will consistently tug with me is if I get a long stick or branch, drag one end on the ground to get her chasing it and then she will tug it for a bit. With that french linen tug like what John pictured, she likes to do something where I put her in a sit or platz, start flicking the tug around, then let her "get it!" and she lunges and latches on. At this point she will not tug back on that one, so I let her take it while I kind of hold her collar and stroke her chest, encouraging her to keep it in her mouth. She needs to learn it's OK to keep things in your mouth, she doesn't have to drop it the second I look at her.


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