# How early would you see DM?



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I have just finished swabbing Hans and am getting ready to send the kit off for analysis.

Why?

Because for a young adult, he doesn't seem to have the stamina and endurance he should have. He tires easily, and if taken for a 45 minute walk he is dragging halfway through. 

I am wondering if this is because of the heat (it was 81 this morning) or the shoulder injury he had as a puppy (that went away in a couple of weeks) or if he simply does not enjoy walks. Then again, if you play fetch with him, he doesn't run at full speed after the first couple of throws.

I am hoping it's just because he is a lower energy dog, but I am checking for DM, just in case. 
I am also going to have his hips checked in a couple of months.


My question is, would DM affect a dog this early in life? He just turned 17 months.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

hi, you had some problems before , remember, on the treadmill ? has the dog had a total health check? heart?


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I can see why you are concerned. Not sure about DM hopefully others can comment. But has his heart ever been checked? No murmur?


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## Fade2Black (Apr 30, 2012)

Might be the hips. When my Kaos was around 5 he would get tired on long walks (but he still wanted to go). I was scared he had a heart problem or something like that. I was going to take him to the vet to get him checked out. The day before his appointment while walking him on the bike path. Someone yelled out a car window. Great looking Shepherd but I think hes limping a little on his rear leg. I didn't notice it but looked at him all the way home. At the vets no heart problem but x rays showed his hips were bad.....

I had a DM dog Genesis (he was diagnosed at 10). His DM showed up at first where he would lose his balance a little while taking a pee. He would get up near a tree. Lift a leg then would lose his balance a little. What made me take him in was one day in my kitchen. He entered the room and had a wierd wobble/stumble....But at first with the DM there was no being tired problem. He used to chase the neighbor (at the time) GSD Ashley through the fence. She was 4. Genesis with early stages of DM could run her into the ground. As it progressed his back end would sway to one side. His rear would not be lined up with the front part of his body. As it got worse I would hold my hand against his side by the hip and keep it in line. Same going up front steps at it progressed. Guide his rear. As it got worse I would then have to assist him getting up the steps...


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Adding to what Carmen asked, just keep in mind that the DM test is not 100% accurate.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Oh, dear.
Time to get his hips checked. 

He had a full health workup and the vet found everything to be fine.
I will call the vet and ask about the heart check.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Has a recent Heartworm check been done and come back negative? I only mention it because I've seen that sort of lack of stamina in HW+ dogs in rescue.

Even if he's on preventative, check anyway. I have read some reports of HWs "breaking through" ivermectin in rare instances, and infecting dogs on preventative. It hasn't been conclusively shown that it's happening as far as I know...but I've read that somewhere that there are some anecdotal reports here and there.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

I had a DM dog who was a typical little landshark. No tiredness for him at all. He was non-stop go go go right up until the day when he was 9 that I had to put him down for DM. It didn't slow his energy at all, only his physical ability.

I should add that even the physical didn't slow him down until the very end. We didn't see it coming and missed the signs so that by the time we figured out what was wrong he went down super fast.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Magwart said:


> Has a recent Heartworm check been done and come back negative? I only mention it because I've seen that sort of lack of stamina in HW+ dogs in rescue.
> 
> Even if he's on preventative, check anyway. I have read some reports of HWs "breaking through" ivermectin in rare instances, and infecting dogs on preventative. It hasn't been conclusively shown that it's happening as far as I know...but I've read that somewhere that there are some anecdotal reports here and there.


This is a nagging thought in he back of my mind.
Still waiting for the vet to call me back.

I have found a great radiologist to do PennHIP- should I wait until Hans is two?


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## KristiM (Oct 18, 2011)

Does he jump up willingly? He kinda sounds a little like havoc at that age but one big thing that I brushed off before but now realize was a big indicator was that he has never jumped up on me. He never jumped up on the counters (not that I'm complaining lol) just anything that fully extended his back legs like that he has never done. (Havoc does not have DM, he has lumbosacral disease. I don't want to freak you out! But I believe that further damage was done because we didn't know what we were dealing with.)


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Yes, he is a jumper. Loves to jump, no problems. Does it willingly and effortlessly.
Every hip mobility test vets have ever done has given good results.
No loss of balance. No wobbling.

Hmmm....


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Yes, he is a jumper. Loves to jump, no problems. Does it willingly and effortlessly.
> Every hip mobility test vets have ever done has given good results.
> No loss of balance. No wobbling.
> 
> Hmmm....


As I already said I had a DM dog. Plenty of energy there. I've also had a HD dog.. again lots of energy. The dog I had with a lack of energy had tick disease and valley fever. Mind you I think there was something wrong with her immune system that caused her to get those things when none of my other dogs ever got sick.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks, everyone. You have given me much to address when I speak to the vet.

Hans was the laid back puppy in the litter.
I am hoping that is just who he is, and not that he has some terrible underlying disease.

Will get him to the vet and tested for more things.


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## KristiM (Oct 18, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Yes, he is a jumper. Loves to jump, no problems. Does it willingly and effortlessly.
> Every hip mobility test vets have ever done has given good results.
> No loss of balance. No wobbling.
> 
> Hmmm....


It's probably just that he is low energy. I just hate to tell people "oh your being paranoid" because with Havoc I _felt _something was wrong but was told by friends, family, his breeder, 3 vets and a canine physiotherapist that it was my imagination....You know your dog, if you feel that something is not right then get it checked out.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

If you want to go all out - at his annual include:
Blood work full panel
Spine x-ray
Urinalysis
Fecal
In addition to the 4 way that tests tick diseases and heartworm. 

For the heart - I am not sure what you'd ask to have done/what they typically do. I know OFA has clinics with cardiologists but don't think they do echos or anything like that. It might be a start. 

I'm as/more concerned with the back of a GSD in relation to movement. If you are going to sedate to do hips, do the spine and elbow. A good rehab vet/chiro can also feel a lot. 

Check the prostate too.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

List of upcoming health clinics: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

We see an orthopedist Friday morning. 

Something seems off, and I hope it is just my paranoia.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

laid back is a choice not a disability , the dog is satisfied with less activity but is certainly capable of a good romp . 
You need to go back to the breeder and have a discussion. 
Get feedback on the rest of the litter. Ask for contact information so that you can get information first hand .
Ask about longevity of the adults.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

carmspack said:


> laid back is a choice not a disability , the dog is satisfied with less activity but is certainly capable of a good romp .
> You need to go back to the breeder and have a discussion.
> Get feedback on the rest of the litter. Ask for contact information so that you can get information first hand .
> Ask about longevity of the adults.


Great idea. I have sent Robin an e-mail. Thank you, Carmen.


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