# 90 pounds @ 1 Year...already over breed standard



## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi all,

So Cody went to the vet last weekend and weighed in at 90 pounds he is 1 year and about 2 weeks old. 

I know the breed standard for males is 75-85. Cody is in no way fat, he's a lean, fit dog. We hiked 9 miles not long ago. What im getting at is....what's wrong with his weight? The vet thinks he'll get to 100 pounds, and I tend to agree since he's still growing.

But the standard says 75-85. he'll end up near 100. He's in shape. Fed TOTW. by all means in good shape. not that i plan on showing him, but i'm wondering why he would be considered overweight? 

thanks for you thoughts

oh, for those of you who don't know him, here's a few pics of him at 1 year/90 pounds


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

How tall is he at the shoulder? 

I don't think he's considered overweight, just oversized.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi Konotashi,

im not sure actually...he is tall and long, but I have no meausurement to provide on height


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I dont think weight really matters in the standard.

Height does though. 

Sinister is over the standard at 28' at the shoulder and he weighs 80 pounds.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Oh....

P.S. Cody is my favorite! He's such a handsome boy! :wub:


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

thank you Laren  

i should figure out his shoulder height


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

_*German Shepherd Dog | American Kennel Club*_

_*Size, Proportion, Substance*
The desired height for males at the top of the highest point of the shoulder blade is 24 to 26 inches; and for bitches, 22 to 24 inches._
_The German Shepherd Dog is longer than tall, with the most desirable proportion as 10 to 8½. The length is measured from the point of the prosternum or breastbone to the rear edge of the pelvis, the ischial tuberosity. The desirable long proportion is not derived from a long back, but from overall length with relation to height, which is achieved by length of forequarter and length of withers and hindquarter, viewed from the side._

It doesn't say anything about weight, at least if it does I dont see it?


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

you're right laren. the AKC doesn't seem to mention weight. I googled "german shepherd standard" and found some links that do provide weight standards, but maybe it was more of a weight suggestion haha


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

He looks good to me. Moses was 90 lbs at a year too and he's a svelt 100 now, very lean. I wouldn't worry about him 'being over standard'. You know if he's at a good weight or not.


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## MrsMiaW (Sep 25, 2010)

Our GSD, Rappex, who has since gone to The Bridge, was 90 pounds at 1 year. He topped out at about 95 pounds and he was a lean, efficient athlete. Cody looks great to me, so I wouldn't be worried about a specific number. Especially with all of the hiking you do with him.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

thanks alpha mom

like you said..i can tell he's in good shape. but i still wonder how he ended up so much bigger than the "standard" gsd


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

LaRen616 said:


> *I dont think weight really matters in the standard.*
> 
> Height does though.
> 
> Sinister is over the standard at 28' at the shoulder and he weighs 80 pounds.


Yes, it does: WEIGHT AND HEIGHT CHART FOR THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG

Males:


Height at the wither 60 cm to 65 cm (23.62 inches - 25.59 inches)
Weight 30 kg to 40 kg. (66.14 pounds - 88.18 pounds; Midrange = 77 pounds)
Sinister weighs the same as Keefer, and both of them are well within the standard.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi MrsMiaW,

thanks for sharing Rappex's weight.

i wonder how long ago the standard weight was determined? has the quality of food gotten that much better than in return we're getting bigger adult dogs?

Cody has eaten grain-free food (BB, TOTW) most of his puppyhood with Science Diet and Eukanaba sprinkled in for BM issues


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Yes, it does: WEIGHT AND HEIGHT CHART FOR THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG
> 
> Males:
> 
> ...


Oh I didn't see that in the AKC standard?

I meant Sinister is over the standard because he is 28' at the shoulder


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Not sure about the AKC standard, that's the German standard.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Depends on what standard you want to go by. There's several different standards.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

chicagojosh said:


> thanks alpha mom
> 
> like you said..i can tell he's in good shape. But i still wonder how he ended up so much bigger than the "standard" gsd


 there will always be variations in breeds but if it does not impede his original intended use,hes healthy then no one should gasp and say"oh no he's too tall or heavy" for the standard.standard is just it. A loose term for the average.but there will always be the odd bigger one or smaller.its when people take the odd one and selective breed it over and over you get the modern day domestic dog. Without the "odd" one the domestic dog would not be here today.hes gorgeous so no worries!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

thanks for your input tierra!


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## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

I've heard about King Shepherds. 90-150 lbs

Arlo is 9 months and a little over 90 (92-93). His parents an easy 110. I prefer the bigger dogs. 

No idea where our 10 week old female weighs in at..


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

tierra nuestra said:


> standard is just it. A loose term for the average.


Actually, no - the standard is not an average. It's the weight range the breed is SUPPOSED to be. But there are a lot of dogs out of standard, and I agree that it doesn't mean they're bad dogs. A dog bred from two larger parents will be a larger dog, it's simple genetics. With so many oversized dogs these days, the actual average of the total GSD population is probably NOT within standard anymore. There are a lot of breeders who don't care about the standard and are breeding for larger size.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

adamdude04 said:


> I've heard about King Shepherds. 90-150 lbs
> 
> Arlo is 9 months and a little over 90 (92-93). His parents an easy 110. I prefer the bigger dogs.
> 
> No idea where our 10 week old female weighs in at..


wow!!!! 92 @ 9 months!!! that is huge Adam. is you're part king shepherd?

Cody is 1/2 working line, 1/2 pet line, but def not king.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

When I first got Nara 3 years ago, the weight range WAS a part of the AKC standard on their website. They have since removed the weight range for whatever reason.

As for why your GSD is so big, well, some breeders breed oversized dogs intentionally because of public demand. They are usually in it for profit and could care less about the potential negative side effects on an oversized dog's health and well-being. Paw Paw, my husky, is 64 lbs of solid muscle, and a male husky shouldn't be more than 60 lbs, so he's also oversized. People always ask me if he's a malamute, but I let them know that mals are twice the size of Paw Paw. I found out that his breeder called him the "runt of the litter" and laughed at how small he was, so she was one of these breeders breeding for oversized dogs way above the standard. I'm not saying your breeder does this, but you asked why your dog is so big, and this might be why.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hello counter, thanks for your thoughts. I know his dad weighs 100. his dad is all pet line GSD. His mom is 75-80 and from what folks on here say and my trainer is like top notch DDR/czech working line.

based on your theory, id say the dad was the one bred to be oversized...but as you said. i dont know if it was intentional. the breeder has titled sch dogs and is responsible based on my knowledge


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## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Who cares about standard. My pup looks standard but the big bully version


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## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

chicagojosh said:


> wow!!!! 92 @ 9 months!!! that is huge Adam. is you're part king shepherd?
> 
> Cody is 1/2 working line, 1/2 pet line, but def not king.


No idea about lines. He from a byb


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

adamdude04 said:


> Who cares about standard.


People who care about preserving the breed as a working dog, for one. Being oversized prevents them from being the all-around utilitarian working dog they were intended to be. There's a reason that the majority of herding dogs, guide dogs, service dogs, police dogs, search and rescue dogs, and other dogs that work for a living aren't 120lb. 

Being over standard doesn't make a dog a bad pet, but if you want to preserve the breed as a whole as an all-purpose working dog, the standard size is there for a reason. 

(In B4 somebody points out their friend who has a mastiff SAR dog or St Bernard service dog or their uncle's cousin's baby's mama's 140lb GSD who herds sheep.)


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Emoore said:


> People who care about preserving the breed as a working dog, for one. Being oversized prevents them from being the all-around utilitarian working dog they were intended to be. There's a reason that the majority of herding dogs, guide dogs, service dogs, police dogs, search and rescue dogs, and other dogs that work for a living aren't 120lb.
> 
> Being over standard doesn't make a dog a bad pet, but if you want to preserve the breed as a whole as an all-purpose working dog, the standard size is there for a reason.


:thumbup:


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

I wouldn't get all stressed out about it if your not going to show him.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Josh I don't know if your dog is neutered yet? When we had Niko done he was 86 lbs. Post neuter (about two months later) we had him weighed again and he's lost about 6 lbs. (Insert lewd comment here). 

Anyway, he hasn't gained the weight back yet. He's a bit over 28 inches though, so he's out of standard there anyway. 

I was surprised Niko was out of standard, both his parents and shown in conformation and within standard. His dad is about 90 lbs.

As far as food quality, I don't know if that would have an impact on the final dimensions of the adult. I think it might make for a more healthy adult who reaches his full potential, but if the genes for height and weight are not there, you will not get a bigger dog unless growth hormones are added. Hmmm, and we add growth hormones to our food supply, so maybe we ARE adding them to our dog's food... Something to think about.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hi good karma....Cody got nuetered at 8 months. intesting thoughts about the food. i guess we never know.

denali, thanks for the thoughts, not really worried, but more curious than anything


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## Lesley1905 (Aug 25, 2010)

I think he looks great!! He's very manly


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

thank you Leslely!


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

He looks good to me. I think the weight standard is more of a guideline and it really depends on how your dog looks. He's certainly not fat by any stretch. Just a big boy.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hi wolfies mom,

i was just looking at wolfies log art haha

thanks for the input...i have not idea what wolfie is doing with the logs by the way lol


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

chicagojosh said:


> hi wolfies mom,
> 
> i was just looking at wolfies log art haha
> 
> thanks for the input...i have not idea what wolfie is doing with the logs by the way lol


LOL! Maybe Wolfie is just weird.. I was going to add to my response that Chiefy was 120 at his biggest. He was overweight. He finally settled in at 105 being his ideal weight. Wolfie as of about a month ago was 81 lbs. The vet thinks that he will be between 100 and 120.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

are chiefy and wolfie related?

it seems like most of us GSD's that do weigh more than the standard.

so is the standard out dated? i'm starting to wonder...


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I think that standards are very important and breeders should do there best but like others have said many are now going for "big" and over standard is becoming the new standard.

That being said Jake is already about to be over standard at less then 10 months old. He's 79 pounds! I do my very best to keep him active, lean and feed good quality food. For him like Cody it's genetics. We have over standard dogs.....it happens all to often. Most people think bigger is in fact better, look at portions of food etc...

When I saw Jake it was obvious at 9 weeks he was going to be bigger then he "should", but I wanted him and promised him I wouldn't let him over eat, get over weight and give him a great life.... but I had to explain to him that modeling was out of the question.
I think Cody looks great!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

haha hi renee. im sure jake was crushed when you told him his modeling days were numbered lol.

thanks for the compliment. so see, jake too, heavier than standard. I just may start a poll to see how many of our GSDs actually do fit the standard


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

chicagojosh said:


> are chiefy and wolfie related?
> 
> it seems like most of us GSD's that do weigh more than the standard.
> 
> so is the standard out dated? i'm starting to wonder...


No they aren't related at all. Chief was American showline and Wolfie is DDR workingline.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Wolfiesmom said:


> No they aren't related at all. Chief was American showline and Wolfie is DDR workingline.


gotcha...so again, it seems most of the gsd's are not within standard. and you're two dogs are great examples that both show and working lines are getting much heavier than standard.

in Cody's case he's already 12.5% over standard 10/80. he's 10 pounds over and i picked 80 as the standard

now in Chiefy's case he was a full 50% over the standard at his heaviest (120 - 80 =40) 40/80 = 50%!!!! that seems crazy! yet it seems to be common as im learning


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

chicagojosh said:


> gotcha...so again, it seems most of the gsd's are not within standard. and you're two dogs are great examples that both show and working lines are getting much heavier than standard.
> 
> in Cody's case he's already 12.5% over standard 10/80. he's 10 pounds over and i picked 80 as the standard
> 
> now in Chiefy's case he was a full 50% over the standard at his heaviest (120 - 80 =40) 40/80 = 50%!!!! that seems crazy! yet it seems to be common as im learning


What I did notice about my two dogs was that Chiefy was a lot taller than Wolfie, but he had average looking legs. Wolfie is shorter but his legs are very thick, and his chest is very wide too. I think with Chiefy's height ( i don't know how tall he was ) he could handle the weight. Wolfie's weight seems to be all in his bones and muscle.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

He's a great looking dog. Are you concerned because of breeding or showing? If not, then enjoy how lucky you are.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

emoore said:


> people who care about preserving the breed as a working dog, for one. Being oversized prevents them from being the all-around utilitarian working dog they were intended to be. There's a reason that the majority of herding dogs, guide dogs, service dogs, police dogs, search and rescue dogs, and other dogs that work for a living aren't 120lb.
> 
> Being over standard doesn't make a dog a bad pet, but if you want to preserve the breed as a whole as an all-purpose working dog, the standard size is there for a reason.
> 
> (in b4 somebody points out their friend who has a mastiff sar dog or st bernard service dog or their uncle's cousin's baby's mama's 140lb gsd who herds sheep.)


 i wonder why nobody squeeks about preserving the breed as a working dog when you look at showline dogs?i mean you can't honestly say that most show types will be able to pull off what they were originally intended for?i think height and weight variance are less of an issue than what alot of show dogs are like now.speaking from a farm perspective i have been raised with pyrs and maremmas and they are all monster dogs for the majority.they are agile and quick when need be and i think keeno our pyr/maremma cross is the most agile dog i've ever seen.he can clear a 5 foot fence like a jack rabbit and he is a heavy dog/tall dog.its how they use the mass to propel themselves.they take on dainty little coyotes with amazing dexterity and speed.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> He's a great looking dog. Are you concerned because of breeding or showing? If not, then enjoy how lucky you are.


thanks Paddy! oh i appreciate how amazing he is on many levels. curiousity was calling though, so i had to start the thread


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## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

my pups parents were 27/29in.. the dad was a int ch haven't quite got a grip on that acronym and cgc, mom was more of a house dog, but was very good at herding on their farm.. so i have a feeling my pup is gonna be huge, i just got a wellness exam and he is 48lbs at 4 3/4mo


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

chicagojosh said:


> thanks for your input tierra!


 no problem!glad to help.oso our male was weighed in at 92 at 11 months and he is tall.but take him in a side profile shot and he looks identical to the best in show from many of the 1950 shows.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

thanks again tierra,

so who's dog is not overweight/oversized? haha im declaring the new standard for males 85-100


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

tierra nuestra said:


> i wonder why nobody squeeks about preserving the breed as a working dog when you look at showline dogs?i .


there's been many a thread squeeking about showline, division in the breed and how it's affecting the breed. You just haven't been here long enough to see them.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

My males run the gamit from the bottom end of the standard to very nearly oversized. My 19 month old is a muscly 66lbs. He's fast as all get out and so much more able to control his body. Core strength like you wouldn't believe on that dog. My largest male is my 8 year old. A fit 93lbs and at the VERY top of standard height wise based on his KKL report, he's not super tall but has a lot of bone and chest on him. He's more raw power, not nearly as fast or agile but can drag helpers down in his bitework. 

More people are used to seeing BIG dogs. When we walk the 19 month old, people always assume he's a puppy because their shepherd is SO much larger. His brother who is my next oldest male is a large 87lb male. Dad was a nice sized 85lb dog and Mom was a reasonable sized bitch at 70lbs, I think both were probably in standard. So it's just luck of the genetic draw.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hi jklatsky,

ha! so you do have dogs for the most part that are in the standard. thanks for sharing


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

My female is standard but my male is not, I actually prefer large GSD's so I am a happy with his size, even though it is above standard. As long as he is healthy that is most important.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

thanks for sharing heidi


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

tierra nuestra said:


> i wonder why nobody squeeks about preserving the breed as a working dog when you look at showline dogs?


Surely you jest?!?! There have been numerous discussions on just that subject. In fact, it's one of the most hotly debated topics on the board. Take a look around, you'll find plenty of threads.


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## HandsomeSamson (Jun 7, 2010)

My male Samson is 1 1/2 years old and looks exactly like Cody. I wonder if it's the bloodline/genes because he is very tall and long like Cody and even his color/markings are almost the same. He weighed 102lbs at his 1 year check up and was and is still healthy as a horse, he's got to be close to 115 by now.


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## StryderPup (May 16, 2009)

Stryder will be 2 this month and he is a heavy (only when he steps on your toes) 96lbs. At about 14-15 months he was about 89 lbs. He only gained about 7 pounds from 14 mos until now. Your boy looks great to me.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

chicagojosh said:


> thanks again tierra,
> 
> so who's dog is not overweight/oversized? haha im declaring the new standard for males 85-100


Yea! That makes Hondo standard too! Whoo Hoo!  Love your pup, chicagojosh - wouldn't mind having one of those playing around my house!


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Zoe my female is over standard for height and weighs about 92 lbs. She is lean, feed TOTW, and ran twice a day- she's just a big girl and we love her just the way she is


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## a.rymdekoharvey (Jun 10, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> _*German Shepherd Dog | American Kennel Club*_
> 
> _*Size, Proportion, Substance*
> The desired height for males at the top of the highest point of the shoulder blade is 24 to 26 inches; and for bitches, 22 to 24 inches._
> ...


Yea my girl is 26 to 27 shoulder height at 1 year old, coming in at around 90 to 92 lbs.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Cedar ranges from 70-72 lbs. Not sure how tall she is, but if I had to guess, she'd definitely fall into the breed standard. She's a very lean, athletic girl. I don't think I could get her to put on weight even if I wanted to (which I don't). 

Titan is almost 6 months and is already 70 lbs. He's a very stocky boy. He's lean, but he's built like a tank. He's got a thick head, thick neck, large legs, huge paws, very large chest, etc. He's just a big boy. I do worry about how big he'll get. I don't want him getting over 90 lbs, although I think he's going to.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

Koshka weighed in at 47 pounds last time at the vet, at five months old. I have him quite lean, and I'm thinking he will end up in the 80 pound range. I guess it will just depend. His parents are in standard (on the higher end), so we're hoping he will be too. Bigger wouldn't be bad though, since he'll be a mobility service dog.


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## BlackJack (Jun 23, 2011)

Immo is a lean 72lbs at 8 months, he hasn't filled out, I wish I could keep him at that size. But I will be happy if he stays mid 80s.

IF if ever decide to get into breeding down the road, I would like target my direction of my program to smaller, more agile and athletic dogs. If you look at some of the first black and white videos nearly 100 years old, you will see this kind of dog. Not sure where the breeders get off on calling oversized GSDs old fashion, considering the old ones never were that large.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Because I do SAR work with Titan I wish he was on the smaller side sometimes. He is 30" and about 94 lbs.. very large for a GSD. I would agree that there's no real reason to breed such large GSDs but he is so agile for his size and isn't scared to manuver through obstacles so I'm happy with him.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Not sure where the breeders get off on calling oversized GSDs old fashion, considering the old ones never were that large.


The Capt put a dog up that was 29". The 'old ones' could be & at times were 'that large'. Size varied considerably when working ability really was the emphasis on breeding. 

The current standard favors some, not all, working endeavors. It also favors (not coincidentally IMO) the sport of SchH. There have been posts made complaining about the pain & discomfort endured by SchH helpers when working over sized dogs. Personally, if I truly wanted a dog for PP that would be an asset not a detriment. Can standard sized or smaller GSDs effectively protect? Yes, but some added muscle & power certainly won't hurt.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

It is a standard.
Either honor it or don't.
BIG BIG BIG ... my dog is going to be sooooo big.
That's all I see.
I never see my dog is going to be so small.
And I NEVER see 'my dog is going to be within the standard
for size and temperament'. oboy oboy


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

The standard has changed numerous times regarding coat, color & size. Others see it differently, but I won't change my preferences to stay within an ever changing standard. Nor will I tell others what to 'honor'. 

My guy is big, ie tall, which I like, but it's the least important thing that I like about him. Far more important is his biddability, problem solving skills, intelligence, discerning judgment, solid nerves, reliability with people, excellence with children & athleticism. What puts me over the top in love with him is his truly wonderful personality, the depths of his understanding & his ability to teach even a cranky old bitch a few more things about life & love.

Frankly, I mention his size only b/c size is such an issue with the standards police. Outside of this forum, only those that have met Djibouti even know his size. It's not something I casually mention b/c it's not terribly important. 

Anyone seeking only size in their dog, whether the desired size is small, medium, large or extra large, s/b buying pictures or sculptures of dogs rather than actual dogs. Regardless of size there is a great deal more to all dogs than this single quality.

FTR, I've had dogs as small as 5 lbs & as large as 150 lbs. I currently have 3 dogs ranging from 17 to 93+ lbs. In their very own, highly unique ways, all of my dogs (& cats) have been both incredible & irreplaceable.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I have a 90#er and he is now three, mature. Yet not filled out in the male sense. His head is big, his body long and agile but his bulk is only in his shoulders and front. I don't want him to gain any more in his frame, he is powerful, agile and athletic(graceful jumps included). 
27" and 90# is male perfection even if it is against the standard. 









Jk, this is not him!




This is:


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## Midnight12 (Jan 6, 2012)

RubyTuesday said:


> The standard has changed numerous times regarding coat, color & size. Others see it differently, but I won't change my preferences to stay within an ever changing standard. Nor will I tell others what to 'honor'.
> 
> My guy is big, ie tall, which I like, but it's the least important thing that I like about him. Far more important is his biddability, problem solving skills, intelligence, discerning judgment, solid nerves, reliability with people, excellence with children & athleticism. What puts me over the top in love with him is his truly wonderful personality, the depths of his understanding & his ability to teach even a cranky old bitch a few more things about life & love.
> 
> ...


 I think you said it all


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Jane, I've always thought Karlo is just a gorgeous hunk. Admittedly, I'm weak for the lean, leggy look.


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