# making a dog run ??



## ranchobiker24 (Mar 11, 2010)

you already read my about me thinking of getting a dog. i was looking in my back yard and was told i could make a dog run back there in this space we have .. i took a rough measurement and the width would be about 5'6" and the lengh would be about 24- 28 ft long ... would that be good enough for a german shepard .... the dog would be there when im in school or work besides that it would be with me out of it when im home... i would also put a dog house in it maybe make one or put a dogloo in it .,,,, 

any suggestions .


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON (Feb 21, 2010)

your going to have a mud pit. unless you get a bunch of chat. then he/she'll poop on the chat and you'll either have to pick it up or do something along those lines. it's up to you but there will be issues. i'm assuming it's a rental.


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## ranchobiker24 (Mar 11, 2010)

its not a rental and what is chat....? i was goona put grass and bark in it probobly ....


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

It would be decent for exercise occasionally, but why not keep him/her inside when you're gone? I hate hearing of dogs left outside, no matter the climate or conditions. They always get forgotten about.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Grass won't last a day. If you can afford it use concrete with a slope of at least 10 degrees. It is the cleaner surface for a dog run and prevents digging also. Bark can work as soon as the dog do not eat it, but will smash in time and you will take some of it everytime you clean the run, so you have to be prepared to refill form time to time.

I'm planning to build runs this year too, but I'm not sure if I'm going to use concrete (against my own advice) because I plan to buy a piece of land next to my house and later I would like to move the kennels there.


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## jasonGSD01 (Feb 26, 2010)

Making a dog run? thats easy throw a ball. LOL sorry couldnt resist.


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> It would be decent for exercise occasionally, but why not keep him/her inside when you're gone? I hate hearing of dogs left outside, no matter the climate or conditions. They always get forgotten about.


 
Thats not always the case. Baya has an outdoor kennel that she goes in on nice days when we have class. She always comes in when we are home though and never stays out too long. And I have to say she LOVES it, when its bad she goes in her crate and thats not bad but she loves when she gets to get outside and stretch. SHe is always less hyper and anxious when we leave her outside. 

I would try using somthing other than grass because they do dig, but it helps if they ahve lots of mental stimulation while in it. I did hear you could use horse stall matts and that they work relatively well. We were thinking about doing that but figured it wasn't worth it because she was never out there long enough to bother. Also we have a lock for ours just in case, there are so many idiots out there


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Buncher Alert: North-Central MN/WI
Google it. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving a dog out, I know people do but some info to consider as you think about it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think a dog run is a great thing and every dog should have one, but it really does depend on your neighborhood how safe your dog will be in there. 

If I had to do it over, all of my dogs would have a doggy door from their outdoor run to an area inside. The dog doors I currently have I use x-pens on the inside and it works great. They have a 4x4 area inside (x-pen hooked to the wall with self-tapping eylets and clips.) And a ten by 20 foot kennel outside. 

Dog runs depend on where you are located. If you are located where there is considerable snow, you might consider having your gate 1' above the ground level. It would mean stepping in and out of your kennel, BUT you will not need an ice breaker and build your muscles up shoveling and pounding away the ice just to get the kennel gate open. 

One of my kennels, due to its location opens in ONLY. This is a HUGE mistake in the snow belt. Sometimes it is extremely difficult to squeeze in there to break up the snow to get the gate open. The dogs pack it down somewhat, but it is difficult. 

DO NOT BELIEVE YOUR CONTRACTOR ABOUT SLOPE. They are full of doo doo. What ever your contractor says, double it at least. Otherwise you will have pools of water lying in your kennel. 

If money was no object, roofing the kennel would be nice. But in any case, you should put a lighter gage wire across the top of the kennel to prevent a climber from escaping. Also the dog house could be a stepping stool to the outer world if the kennel is not covered over. But I believe having a dog house is essential if the run does not have access to the house. If the run DOES have access to the house, the fencing should be on the house side as well, otherwise a chewer could chew the siding off the house.

I suggest a concrete base. It eliminates any thought of digging out. Generally it is easy to hose down and maintain. If I had to do mine over again, I might have built up the sides with concrete blocks for a few feet as well. I use 9 gage wire for the gate and the fencing. 

If you are 5'7 or taller, the roofed over 6' kennel will be a pain in the winter when you forget your are walking on eight inches of snow and crack your head on the two by four running across the top of the run. 

Good luck making a nice run. I think mine are good. They are fences around as well, just in case I am stupid with a latch, they will still be inside a fenced area. I will look for a picture. 

Notice how I did not fence the house side and the dogs went to town on my siding:









Comfort is a biggy, notice the water bucket in the bucket holder -- with these I have NEVER come home to a dog who spilled their water and were without. Also cots to give them a place to rest off the concrete, and my dog house's floor is elevated from the ground and I have a dog shelter in there, this one has a lawn chair -- well, they do like them. (spoiled)









This one shows some of the use of tarps and the dog shelter:









Ordinary tarps can be put along the side of a kennel to provide shade, but not across the top, or it will collapse the kennel if a major rain fall happens. I use sun screens on the top of the kennels which effectively lower the temperature inside.

ETA: the last two photos are one kennel -- two different views. The dog shelter is 8' long by 4' wide, and tall enough for the dog houses to be inside, and the dogs leap on top of them and lie on them.


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## Vault_101 (Feb 13, 2010)

Doubleminttwin said:


> Thats not always the case. Baya has an outdoor kennel that she goes in on nice days when we have class. She always comes in when we are home though and never stays out too long. And I have to say she LOVES it, when its bad she goes in her crate and thats not bad but she loves when she gets to get outside and stretch. SHe is always less hyper and anxious when we leave her outside.
> 
> I would try using somthing other than grass because they do dig, but it helps if they ahve lots of mental stimulation while in it. I did hear you could use horse stall matts and that they work relatively well. We were thinking about doing that but figured it wasn't worth it because she was never out there long enough to bother. Also we have a lock for ours just in case, there are so many idiots out there


 
Im assuming you're referring to the rubber horse stall mats. I wouldn't reccomend these for a couple of reasons, primarily cost ($$$$!!!) and maintenance. We laid some of the rubber mats in the boss' horse stalls and within a week urine alone had gotten inbetween the seams and caused bad washout and potholes underneath the mats not to mention the horrible smell. The washout can cause you or maybe the dog to trip on uneven mats or possibly trip on a pothole that didn't seem to be there until you stepped on the mat. 

Basically just to get the mats to sit right the ground underneath has to be perfectly clean and 100% smooth. They would work great if they were laying on top of concrete but then why not just use concrete alone? easier to clean and less money to spend. 

As others stated I think concrete would be the best bet, no digging, no mud, easier to clean and it stays pretty cool in the shade plus it keeps their nails from getting too long. 

Goodluck!


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

Vault_101 said:


> IThey would work great if they were laying on top of concrete but then why not just use concrete alone? easier to clean and less money to spend.
> 
> 
> 
> Goodluck!



I've had rubber stall mats on top of concrete for years, 2 in each kennel. Good grief they are not THAT expensive! I think $40-$50 each for the 1 inch think ones. Certainly not nearly as expensive as the concrete itself! 

I would never want to have a dog on only concrete. Concrete is horrible on a human or dog long term. A dog deserves something semi soft to walk or lay on in at least part of the kennel run.


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## Vault_101 (Feb 13, 2010)

Must be different mats because the mats we used were 4'x4' 1'' thick and about $200+ each, certainly more expensive than concrete (you can pour a small house fondation for $1500 and we're just talking about a 6' x 28' area not to mention it can be only 4'' thick since it's not weight bearing). Then again these were specified for horses so I dunno if there's a difference in cost or product quality, I can only imagine. 

Not trying to argue or anything, for the price you got them I would reccomend them too, for use over concrete but, I still wouldn't reccomend a rubber mat over anything but hard permanent surface. I agree with you that rubber is safer and better for their bones and general comfort, but I would imagine a dog house with a nice bed and maybe an area with rubber mats around the dog house would be enough.


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

The mats I was referring to are the horse mats from Tractor Farm Supply. I've seen them on sale for $29 and seen them priced as high as $49. The ones I have are 4' x 6' x 1" and they must weigh about 100 pounds each, LOL


Here in NC you "might" get 6' x 28' paved for $1500.

Concrete here in NC runs about $130 yard for 3000psi. $7-9/sf finished. ( I work in the industry) it is horrible on the joints, that is why you don't want to run on it if you can possibly help it, though I see folks out running on sidewalks everyday... but they will pay for it as time goes on.


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## Vault_101 (Feb 13, 2010)

you gotta love the messed up price differences we all get. What's funny is I live in florida and Orange Juice is the highest price juice you can get. Soon enough it'll cost as much as goose. My coworker had a 15'x30' foundation laid for $800 and it's a ridiculous 12'' thick. I guess it's all in who you know as im sure he has someone that owed him a favor.

OP: Anywho enough about ground what are your thoughts on what kind of fencing? Fence posts and field fence are cheap, sturdy and easy to put up, way easier than chainlink IMHO

Also how come the width has to be 5'6'' exactly? Is there something in the way? It'd probably be more comfortable for you and the dog if it were shorter but wider.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I'm not a fan of chain link either. An active dog can work through them and brake a tooth on the process. some friends of my SAR team made a run with chainlink and you would be amazed of the art a working line can do with it, they have spent more money repairing it than what they would have spent using a harder material. IMHO wire mesh is a better choice.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I use chain link but it is nine gage. Many boxed dog kennels are eleven or thirteen gage which I would agree are too flimsy for an active dog. 

Also, I have the fencing stapled to each post and two by fours top and bottom. the staples are heavy steel. My runs have been in use for several years now with no breakages. 

I am unfamiliar with wire mesh.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

rofl



jasonGSD01 said:


> Making a dog run? thats easy throw a ball. LOL sorry couldnt resist.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

ranchobiker24:

are you getting a puppy? <

how many hours a day will
your puppy be in it's run? <


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## jasonGSD01 (Feb 26, 2010)

I dont know the first thing about buliding a kennel but would like to comment on the cement. I do know if you called a few cement companines and asked if they have any left over from a job if they would sell it to you and they will come dump it where you want and cheap.


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

Vault_101 said:


> My coworker had a 15'x30' foundation laid for $800 and it's a ridiculous 12'' thick. I guess it's all in who you know as im sure he has someone that owed him a favor.


Must have been one heck of a favor  

checked out Pensacola concrete prices a moment ago and the concrete ALONE, not including any labor is well over $2000. Normally that kind of a job would be around $4000-$5000


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

jasonGSD01 said:


> I dont know the first thing about buliding a kennel but would like to comment on the cement. I do know if you called a few cement companines and asked if they have any left over from a job if they would sell it to you and they will come dump it where you want and cheap.



For really small jobs, this might be an option, but normally since concrete is so expensive, companies don't normally have any left over. the only exception to this is when ordering small loads it is sometimes cheaper to buy the minimum instead of paying a short load fee. but remember that finishing concrete is NOT normally a job for the average layman. Floating concrete may look simple but really is not that easy and you do need a slight slope/grade or you will have standing water. Really it would be easier to just have someone put it in for you.

Another option is pavers or then concrete blocks. It is a lot of work, but can be done and if cleaned regularly will not have odors.


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## jasonGSD01 (Feb 26, 2010)

Branca's Mom said:


> For really small jobs, this might be an option, but normally since concrete is so expensive, companies don't normally have any left over. the only exception to this is when ordering small loads it is sometimes cheaper to buy the minimum instead of paying a short load fee. but remember that finishing concrete is NOT normally a job for the average layman. Floating concrete may look simple but really is not that easy and you do need a slight slope/grade or you will have standing water. Really it would be easier to just have someone put it in for you.
> 
> Another option is pavers or then concrete blocks. It is a lot of work, but can be done and if cleaned regularly will not have odors.


Sorry, i was just trying to offer another option.


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

No need to apologize!! LOL it is a possibility for the OP, sometimes mistakes happen, an estimator over figures, or what not, and it would save the company from having to pay dump fee's etc etc.....


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

my ex-neighbor has a pump truck and there is a concrete company down the road. they are always dumping excess before they clean out the trucks. not enough to pave a dog run unless you want to do it a piece at a time


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not know if you want to pave your run with a bit of leftover concrete. If there is enough in one go, ok, but this sounds like it will take several yards even if you go with four to six inches. 

Concrete is fun, you have to dig it down below the frost line and the fill it with gravel. Some people put in the big stuff and then smaller wash gravel? And for a big run, rebar makes sense. You have to use two by fours all around until it sets, and slope it properly. I have them set the four by fours, before pouring and they use bagged concrete to set the posts. 

Finally they pour it. Then they make a tread on it so that you do not fall on your back side every time it is icy. And they cut it so that it does not crack in the middle and look unsightly (like my puppy pen). 

It is an expensive job but it will last. It will mean your dog will be wet when you come home during a monsoon but not full of mud. It will not give a safe harbor for internal parasite eggs. In fact, when I used to leave my boy in the field for hours, the flies would bite his ears until they bled. But in his kennel they never did. I do not know what the concrete had to do with that, but it is true none the less. 

Another alternative is cedar chips. You can build your kennel, burying some chicken wire around the perimeter to prevent digging out, and then use cedar chips inside the kennel to keep the mud at bay. Cedar chips can be pricey and you have to use plenty of them, and change them out once a month or so (picking up poo daily of course), but cedar is a natural repellent and keeps the mud down and the dog smells good when you bring him in, rain or shine.


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## Vault_101 (Feb 13, 2010)

Branca's Mom said:


> Must have been one heck of a favor
> 
> *checked out Pensacola concrete prices* a moment ago and the concrete ALONE, not including any labor is well over $2000. Normally that kind of a job would be around $4000-$5000


 
stalker haha


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> I dont know the first thing about buliding a kennel but would like to comment on the cement. I do know if you called a few cement companines and asked if they have any left over from a job if they would sell it to you and they will come dump it where you want and cheap


I agree with the leftover, many times a truck would love to dump a small load, as long as you have someone to finish it, the convenience of when they need to dump it~and someone available to smooth it out isn't always controllable though.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

We are getting ready to build one for occasional day use and rainy day (well, not rainy but MUDDY day) playtime and potty time, as well as time to let family be in the yard without dogs for entertaining, occasional foster dog use, etc. It will have a number of uses. I do not at ALL agree with the statement that dogs that have kennels are forgotten about. That's ridiculous. Dogs in yards whose owners don't care about them are forgotten about, regardless of whether they are in a kennel or backyard.

When we purchased this house the previous owners had already made a poured cement patio 16' by 21' to use as a small b-ball court. About 5 feet off to the long side is a nice big tree. We evaluated several fencing options, and decided to go with post and rail (4 x 4 posts and 2 x 4 rails). It'll be a 6' tall kennel, 5 rails from top to bottom, and the 2 x 4 heavy duty wire fencing secured to the rails and posts. We are setting the posts just outside the cement, and extending it longways to make the run 30' total length and 17 to 18' width. The area past the patio will either be pea gravel or mulch, not sure. Probably mulch initially and we'll see how it holds up. The kennel long side will run around the tree giving them natural shade and shelter, although they will have "real" shelter too.

They will have shelter in case of an emergency (spring showers, etc) and will have the beds like selzer has. I've seen a lot of selzers posts and it seems like his (her?) dogs like the beds quite a bit, so they are worth the investment. We also like the idea someone mentioned about getting some horse matts from TSC. There will be shelter in the form of either a heavy outdoor kennel tarp or wooden. We have a number of ideas of what we'd like to do, but the fencing is the main part we've settled on and priced. Be aware that the materials are more expensive than one might initially think (if you are like me and haven't build much outdoor stuff like this), and we are looking at around $400 just in wood, wire, and post setting concrete for the perimeter of ours.

But we feel its worth it because we have so many uses for it. Of primary use will be an area for our boys to run around in rather than be cooped up in a crate when we are away. If we want to take a day or weekend trip during nice weather, our boys, which are the most difficult for novice dog handler family members to handle, will have a VERY nice pen to stay in for a day or two where family can just feed and water them. We do not board, and don't vacation much, but it would sure make long day trips and overnight weekend trips easier if family could just deal with the girls directly and only the boys indirectly. We have a fully fenced in yard, part privacy and part chain link, but although the dogs are good with the neighbors when we are around, we don't want them to start terrorizing people in the form of barking if we want to let them be outside while we are out for the afternoon, etc. One side has two dogs with a doggie door who come out barking every time ours go outside, which encourages ours to do the same. One side has a stay at home mom who has a big swingset right by the fence, and I don't want them to bark at her and her young daughter if they are trying to play, and the other side has an elderly man I've known for about 15 years who likes to garden. The dogs like to bark at him when he gardens. If they are off the fenceline, they don't behave this way. So when we are away, they will go in their kennel rather than a crate inside (if it's nice of course).


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Great ideas - bumpting it as I am getting ready to start on designing one.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Our kennel, photos from last yr...



















The dogs do not live in the kennel, obviously, I have a million photos of them in the house....but we do keep a dog house (soon to move another in there) in there in case we go away for the day and a pop up shower springs, they have shelter.

We do need to errect something for shade and are toying with ideas. the big tree provides shade for the AM and PM in the dead of summer, but if we were to kennel them during the day we'd need shelter. So if they are out, we let them stay in the main yard (fully fenced of course) or they are inside in the AC.

The potty area is 6 x 18 ft and has a thick base of sand and we top it with cypress mulch, adding as needed. Beautifully easy to clean and maintain, none of ours even think about going over or through it, nor have any of our fosters ever even attempted. When the photos were taken it was just sand in the potty area, it's had mulch since sometime last fall.

Best investment EVER. I used to not believe in "kennels" but there are so many uses. It's great for seperating fosters and keepers, it's great for days when it's nice but it poured for the week leading up, so you want to save your grass and yard and keep the dogs clean. It keeps them behind another fence, away from neighbors. They aren't as reactive if they can't get right to the fence. Keeps the yard much cleaner from dog poop for kids and training. Poop cleans up easier on mulch/sand than grass also.

The boys are out there enjoying the day right now, not making a peep. They don't bark, the neighbors aren't going to poison them, they can't escape, and they run right into it with the "kennel up" command.

I should add: we only spend about $700 total all said and done for ours, give or take. The concrete was already there, we bought all the materials and rented an augur, and my dad is a contractor so he and my SO did all the work. I was preggers at the time and the men wouldn't let me participate much! So I supervised.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

your dimensions will encourage running back and forth . A square makes the animal more restful.

who has the bucket holders --- oh boy do I need those.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Thanks for the reminder; I had heard that somewhere......I only have 24 feet on one side to work with (the only semi level spot in my back yard) so that would mean making them 8 x 8 which seems kind of too small......though....I had been planning on three 8 x 16 runs.

Course they won't *live* in the runs. It will be mainly for when I want to go somewhere and I don't want them running around unsupervised together in the fenced backyard (I work from my home office overlooking the backyard so I can monitor during work)....I pretty much shove dogs outside most of the day and bring them in at night. Or have one in one out while I am working to be with me. 

Mainly it is to ensure my working dog stays acclimatized.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

You are an animal abuser... why anyone would want to have a GSD if not to have it inside 200% of the time?... yeah... sure. I didn't believe myself...

These are my kennels. I also have a third one who is a bit smaller, but is just step of the front doors so it comes very on hand for some stuff.










This are 2 kennels of 7,5 x 10 ft, but there is a door between them and since I, just like you, keep one dog inside and one dog in the kennel, they have 7,5 x 20 most of the time... if they are kenneled at all. I can separate my yard in two, which is also very useful. One yard for me and my flowers and one yard for them to mess and dig holes.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

Catu said:


> You are an animal abuser... why anyone would want to have a GSD if not to have it inside 200% of the time?... yeah... sure. I didn't believe myself...
> 
> These are my kennels. I also have a third one who is a bit smaller, but is just step of the front doors so it comes very on hand for some stuff.
> 
> ...


 
I like that arrangement!


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

I have a chain link fenced area connected via a doggy door to my shed. The shed is insulated and has heat and a/c. The fenced area is currently covered in straw but will be changed to pea gravel this spring. Right now that is mainly Kaiser's area and he's quite happy with the arrangement. Water and beds are inside the shed and I will be putting a tarp up over part of the outdoor part to provide shade. And I plan to add some of those water misting things. I will probably add one or two stall mats to the pea gravel area in the shaded part. It's not visible from the street which is nice. My dogs are mostly indoor dogs but this gives them a place to hang out for extended periods of time.


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

How thick would the concrete have to be in one of theses kennels? Would 2 inches be too much, not enough, or just right? It doesn't seem like it would have to be as thick as a driveway. If it's too thin, does it crack from its own weight?


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON (Feb 21, 2010)

Chat is the name of the limestone coarse gravel that you usually pour concrete on top of. That's why i recommended starting with chat BC you can eventually pour concrete on it.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Love the rainbow in the pic


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

For me, 5'6" wide would not be enough. I have seen tails suffer from narrow runs. I have pens in the backyard. One is large, 12'x20' The more active dogs use it. another is 8x12, the third 10x10'. I like the more square or rectangular dimensions. Can you fit something like that in? 

In part of my pens, the houses are elevated on decking. I reallt likr the stall matting in the areas I have covered. One pen is not covered so chat and pavers are in it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I got the bucket holder in the horse section at tractor supply co. But I do not always find them there. Maybe they are in their catalog and can order them. They are not expensive.

My first two kennels were 14' x 25 and 14' x 23'. They were gigantic. It did not hurt the dogs to have gigantic kennels, but for the pocket book that is not bottomless, it was cheaper to cut them into two kennels each 14 x 11.5 and 14x12.5, to accomadate my expanding pack. I then added gates between the house and the kennels to give me a fifth run. That one has a doggy door to the inside and is approximately 8' x 20'. Then I added another gate and section of concrete and fencing and doggy door for the puppy pen, which is 10'x20'.

Lastly, I built three more kennels, that are 10'x15'. 

I agree that 5'6 seems a little narrow. The thing is, the dog will poop and run through it. The dog has a tougher time avoiding the pile in a narrow run. And they will run, back and fourth up and down, where the kennels that are closer to square tend to have the dog do less of that. A crazy, high energy maniac like Dolly or Milla will find a way to leap and jump and run in any size kennel. 

I do not know about the damage to tails. I have to wonder if there is some phenomenom called Crate-tail that many, many of the dogs here must suffer from. I mean, a kennel with a width of 5'6 is a whole lot larger than your ordinary crate width. 

As for dogs being ignored and left behind if they are in kennels, well, I suppose it is possible, but a properly designed kennel will have a clean dog in it when you get home that is neither hyper or comatose. They can go from their comfortable kennel to the house with very little insanity.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Selzer, I totally agree. Our yard already looks SO much better. Grass is coming in nicely, it's not a mud pit that's been torn up all season. On muddy days when normally they would have to stay inside all day, or go outside and come in covered in MUD and need constant baths or crate drying time, they can spend a good chunk of the day playing outside in the kennel, wrestling and sun bathing. Since I'm a stay at home mom now, I'm here with them to watch and supervise throughout the day. 

If they are out most of the day, they come inside and crash on their dogs beds and sleep all evening. It's great.

I really don't understand why people are so anti-kennel, in the right circumstances. Our dogs don't dig and bark all day, they run in the kennel full speed when I tell them to kennel up, they love it out there. Why on earth would someone recommend locking their dog in a small crate for 8 - 10 hrs a day vs a good sized kennel out in the fresh air where they can move around and play?


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Rerun said:


> Why on earth would someone recommend locking their dog in a small crate for 8 - 10 hrs a day vs a good sized kennel out in the fresh air where they can move around and play?


I've been asking myself the same question since I joined forums in English...

BTW, one of my first threeads on this board was about kennel flooring and Selzer was extremely helping back then


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

So instead of 3 - 8x16 how does it sound to have four 10x10 with some doors in between so there could be either four 10x10 or two 10x20 kennels? I think the only time dogs would be separated in 10x10 would be if I was going away for the day which is not often -or if we had vistors - even if I have 3 dogs, odds are one will be inside with me while I work. I would just have to rotate


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Rerun said:


> I really don't understand why people are so anti-kennel, *in the right circumstances*. Our dogs don't dig and bark all day, they run in the kennel full speed when I tell them to kennel up, they love it out there. Why on earth would someone recommend locking their dog in a small crate for 8 - 10 hrs a day vs a good sized kennel out in the fresh air where they can move around and play?


That's the problem - the RIGHT circumstances. The majority of people that have outside runs for their dogs are NOT using them in the right circumstances.

Of my 7 dogs *MAYBE* Kaynya and Mauser would be ok in an outside kennel. Sasha and Tazer would bark at anyone that came within 300 feet of the kennel (which includes people walking along the street and my neighbors in their own yards). Winnie would get bored after about 20 minutes and start barking to be let back in. Spike and Feugo would also be barking at everything - people, the wind, birds, each other ... 

I would be worried the whole time - are they barking, are they trying to escape, is someone trying to get into the kennel, are they *SAFE*???

In the house, either in their crates (which are rather larges) or x-pens or just lounging in the living room, I know they are safe and not bothering anyone.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

LOL, I knew it would start sooner or later.

I like this article about the housing of a *WORKING* dog
http://www.vangoghkennels.com/pb-htdocs/Adobe Files/house-kennel MA09.pdf


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> That's the problem - the RIGHT circumstances. The majority of people that have outside runs for their dogs are NOT using them in the right circumstances.
> 
> Of my 7 dogs *MAYBE* Kaynya and Mauser would be ok in an outside kennel. Sasha and Tazer would bark at anyone that came within 300 feet of the kennel (which includes people walking along the street and my neighbors in their own yards). Winnie would get bored after about 20 minutes and start barking to be let back in. Spike and Feugo would also be barking at everything - people, the wind, birds, each other ...
> 
> ...


Dogs like routines and get used to routines. 

Dogs left alone in a back yard kennel might bark up a storm because they are lonely or bored. Usually, if you leave two or more out there, even in separate kennels, barking tends to be more situational. 

Yes, they will bark at the neighbors (privacy fencing cuts that way down). They will bark at the FedX man. And when he gets his butt back in his fedX van and gets off my property, they shut up and get back to their napping, lounging, drinking, etc. When I decided to get shepherds, I agreed to the whole dog, including their bark. In my area, having a dog that will bark in situations, is an asset, not a liability. 

My kennels are safer than my home. They cannot dig out of the concrete base. They cannot climb over as they are fenced along the top. They have yet to chew through the nine gage chain link. The kennels are fenced around to keep brats with sticks or stones away from them, and to give me a second line of defence. 

In my house, they would need to be crated in flimsier crates. Dogs have been known to bust out of crates, and with intact bitches, and hormones, if that happened, I could come home to a bloody tragic disaster. Dogs running loose in my home, could chew on electric wires, eat things I never dreamed they would bother, and go through windows into my front yard which is not fenced and has a road with a 55mph speed limit where people go 70 regularly. 

In their kennels, they can drink and relieve themselves. If one ends up with a seriously loose stool or is sick, they will not be forced to lie in it all day. 

I worry, I mean really worry when I leave one even for a few hours in the house. But when they are all in their kennels, I feel confident that they are safe and comfortable.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

My kennels would be in a yard with a locked 6 foot high privacy fence.

I have to leave mine out a lot to ensure proper conditioning to heat and cold for work. I also would really like to grow some blackberries in the yard and minimize the craters and the one dog running the fence becuse the neighbor dog comes up to it. Plus as much as I am fine with my dogs interacting together when I am present, I do like to keep them separate when I am gone - runs would be effective that way.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

Another reason I love living out in the country, where the closest neighbor is a mile down the road.... theres just not much foot traffic around here for my dogs to bark at, so if they are, I know it's because of the coyotes.


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