# Late Bloomer?



## LisaBriz

Hi all, 

I need some advice about my Shepherd. He will be 7mos old this week. Let me preface this by saying he's a wonderful pet dog. He is an extremely easy puppy and he has a strong desire to please. He's very polite, and consious of not being too rough (especially with me). We are training using markers (positive reinforcement) - I have not introduced corrections or 'leash pressure.' He's still on a harness. He likes frisbee, and balls best, and really won't play tug with me. He slips the tug and the sleeve.







He won't grip and hang on. He's also _very_ immature - very puppy, gangly, and out of his body. 

He has worked with five different training decoys. Our club trainer has malinois and shepherds and is a current mondioring judge. They are all telling me that my puppy won't cut it as a working dog - not mondioring, not schutzhund. Their primary concerns are: 1. he's not intense enough. 2. Doesn't have enough courage.









So, my question is this - In your experience, do pups that "have it" have it from puppyhood? Does anyone have a dog, that as a puppy they thought couldn't do the work, but is working now? Any late bloomers out there? 

Things I've tried: 
Cut out all obedience, and focused on trying to play and have fun 
Using a variety of tugs and textures 
Chiropractics and Vet visits to make sure no medical issues are underlying


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## szariksdad

Can i ask what type of tug work are the decoys doing with him. Also do you think you have done too much ob that has killed drive where you need to rebuild the drive. Finally what is his lineage i.e. working line or show line. When you went to the breeder did you ask for a pup that had the potential to do Sch or Mondio? or was he supposed to be more of a pet only?


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## LisaBriz

My pup is out of DDR lines - both Sch3 but also V rated.

He is heavy on Grafental, Haus Iris, and Fortuna lines.

I really don't see how OB can kill drive when it's done using strictly positive reinforcement with NO CORRECTIONS. I'm working the Mike Ellis system. But, just in case, I have cut OB to focus on play - with no results.

Decoys are just flirting with rags. I'm posting and he's on a harness. He will chase the rag, or puppy sleeve, or toy, or whatever, but won't grip and play.

I specifically told the breeder my priorities were (in this order)- 
1. working dog for mondioring heavier on play but not hectic like a malinois
2. prefer a male
3. color - 1st choice black, 2nd choice black sable


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## elisabeth_00117

DDR lines tend to take longer to mature, at 7 months old I would not worry about it. 

I started my male in the sport at 11.5 months and have seen quite a difference in the past threee months (he just turned 21 months old) in terms of drives and grip.

If he is chasing the toy then he is engaging which is good.

Intensity will come with age, you puppy is just that a PUPPY. Allow him to grow up, continue to play with him, create that bond. Keep everything positive and FUN.

In terms of the courage thing, ensure you are always boosting his confidence in everything he does. Let him explore new things (agility helps with confidence I think, introduce new equipment), let him win the tug (even if he drops it), praise, praise, praise.


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## JKlatsky

As far as maturity. Different lines of dogs have different maturity rates in regards to their different drives. DDR dogs are notoriously slow maturers, while West German working lines are more often regarded as fast maturers. And some dogs don't have the drives to mature into. That's why working with a breeder who is familiar with their lines can be important. They should know if the dog will mature into some kind of drive. 

I find it very interesting that given your priorities you were sold a DDR dog as a mondioring prospect. They're not generally regarded as the best line choice for SchH, let alone Mondio which is dominated by the Malinois. Most of the DDR dogs I have seen work are soft to the handler, slow with the prey drive, and as mature dogs operate with a lot more defense. Many do not fully mature into their drives until they are 3 and 4 years old. 

I also curious what behaviors prompted the helpers to say he lacked intensity and courage. To me, those words translate into lacked drive and was fearful. It makes me wonder what the helper is doing or not doing (not that it's always something wrong...) to come to those conclusions. Although I also wonder why a helper would put a puppy that is not gripping on a sleeve. 

The only other thing I will add is that there is nothing wrong with letting a dog mature before working it in protection. Especially if the dog is going to have to be worked more in defense (which takes longer for dogs to mature into). They need to have mental maturity to be able to deal with that kind of pressure. My 11 month old West German puppy still works on a harness, is still learning all the foundations of biting and targeting. We won't really introduce the guard piece for a while longer because he's still very puppy in his maturity despite his excellent prey drive.


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## Emoore

I don't have anything to add here, but I'm hoping you'll post some more about your pup, Lisa; maybe in the introductions section or maybe some pictures!  

I'm getting a pup who is also very heavy on Grafental and Haus Iris so I'm interested to see what yours is like.


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## Sarah'sSita

7 months?! Don't push it, be patient, be willing to not do much except prey work and see how it goes after a year. Too young. 7 months old not gonna show much courage, they are babies. A dog must be TAUGHT to grip and hold on, with some it is in their DNA, but a dog must learn to grip and value the toy at that age. Keep working on playing tug with you and "building drive" for the tug. BE consistent, persistent, and PATIENT!

Too much OB too soon can make a dog a bit too polite - has nothing to do with whether it is "positive" or "adversive". So I would be careful -
Good Luck


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## elisabeth_00117

This is a post of mine from way back.. it pertains to getting my low/medium drive boy.

It may be worth a read - EXCELLENT information from experienced people.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/how-do-i-teach-my-dog/130346-ball-drive.html


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## JKlatsky

Sarah'sSita said:


> Too much OB too soon can make a dog a bit too polite - has nothing to do with whether it is "positive" or "adversive". So I would be careful -
> Good Luck


This too. It's not about fear or corrections. It's more about manners. The dog has to be willing to confront the guy and snatch what he wants in puppy prey work- the tug. You said that he loves his balls and frisbees. Will he hang onto a ball on a rope? Or the frisbee? If he spits even the things he loves as soon as you put a hand on them...he may be a tad too respectful. 

The only other thing I can think to add from reading other comments is regarding that biting is in some dog's genetics. I remember evaluating a litter at 7 weeks with my trainer and looking at 2 pups that both showed good prey drive in terms of chasing. One pup would chase and grab with the mouth immediately. The other would chase all day long, but when he caught it, his natural inclination was to hold with his feet. The trainer said that the second pup could be taught to bite...but that if was choosing a SchH prospect he would pick the one that did it naturally, because if you didn't have to train it why would you? He would have the breeder steer the other pup to another venue where the prey drive could be used but where the bite wasn't so important. 

Of course this was a West German litter. I'm not sure if DDR litters are so unreadable in their drives because of their slow maturity that there is no real indication? I would imagine that makes selecting sport prospects difficult...maybe some of the DDR breeders here could chime in on what they've noticed in their litters and how they select pups for people interested in sport?


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## JKlatsky

elisabeth_00117 said:


> This is a post of mine from way back.. it pertains to getting my low/medium drive boy.
> 
> It may be worth a read - EXCELLENT information from experienced people.
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/how-do-i-teach-my-dog/130346-ball-drive.html



I remember that thread!! Good call. It was an excellent read...All 27 pages


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## elisabeth_00117

Honestly, it really made me realize what *I* was doing to Stark.... compare my dog now, to this dog then.... wowzers!

I think some people misunderstood what I was trying to say, which is fine because I didn't really know how to say it, but some in that thread (Samba, Lies, Jason) REALLY helped me... I learned soooo much from this thread and I honestly think it helped Stark and I so much. It definitely made me realize what I was doing wrong, what I needed to do to get the best/most from my dog.


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## sagelfn

Nothing to add except do read the ball drive thread! It's long but excellent! :thumbup:


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## cliffson1

Continue to work your dog in the harness with tugs and flirtpoles. With DDR dogs the light may come on at 11 months or it may be 17 months or may be as late as 2 years. But the imprinting is good as long as its fun and the dog is continuing to chase....don't worry about the grips at this point.


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## Rei

From what you have said of his pedigree, I think you have a great dog in your hands. I was recently looking at a few dogs from lines similar to your pup's, and have liked them all. However, I am also surprised that you were sold such a puppy as a mondioring prospect, given the nature of the sport and these lines. 

You will be surprised at how much more your dog will mature. My dog will be 2 years old next month, in February. He is mostly West German working lines with some DDR through Muchta v Schwarzhorn and of course Don v Haus Iris. At 12 -14 months old he was still very mentally immature and had I worked him in Schutzhund then I would be willing to bet that he would be working in all prey and play. Now he is altogether a very different dog. He judges perceived threats with a willingness to listen to my requests, and his triggers and thresholds have changed for prey and for defense. His behavior in every day life shows a constantly alert dog aware of his surroundings and quick to defend but also with the ability to active displays of aggression under certain circumstances (and frankly, making me feel a lot safer about walking the streets at night). 

Even playing tug with him is different now, and as extreme as it may sound, there are certain people I will not allow to play tug with him. I understand now why many Schutzhund clubs to not stress the protection stage until after a dog is mature. A puppy that thinks it's just a game of chase may take Schutzhund very seriously at 2 or 3 years of age. I know I look forward personally to starting my dog in Schutzhund so I can watch him grow and develop further and learn more about him. 

But that being said, you can also "ruin" a dog, and I have seen it happen. Two very nice dogs out of an imported Grafental sire and dam, put into the wrong hands and trainer. They were pushed too far, too quickly, and too soon. While the point re: too much OB is a good one, too much pressure and certain types of training methods can be damaging. Sometimes a club more accustomed to working with Malinois pups may not find that their methods work when employed to a slower maturing, less prey oriented DDR pup. I am not saying that people who train Mals can't train German Shepherds, of course, but just that you should keep in mind that you have a puppy right now. Don't expect or ask too much at this point. Imprinting and foundation work is great for now, as Cliff said.


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## Chris Wild

I wouldn't say "late bloomer". I'd say NORMAL for a pup of these lines, particularly a male. While I agree that DDR lines are typically not the best choice for sport work like SchH, and especially the ring sports, and even moreso for a novice handler, that's neither here nor there at the moment as you've got the dog. The challenge now is being patient for him to mature, and also finding helpers/decoys/training group who have the knowledge, skill, and patience to work with a dog who doesn't fit their desired mold of a crazy prey monster at a young age. This may require finding another place to train.

Even with higher drive, quicker maturing lines I would not be quick to wash out a dog at 7 months for lacking "intensity" and "courage". It's a baby. Obvious nerve issues, fearful behavior, and that sort of thing yes. But not because the puppy isn't gangbusters over chasing around a helper with a rag. Many lines, particularly DDR, do not show much prey drive at all, much less early on. Defense and aggression matures much later and these dogs can be very strong in protection. But one needs to wait for maturity and then approach protection from the standpoint of something much more serious, giving the dog a reason to work, not treating it as a game.

Even with our own dogs who are much quicker to mature and higher in prey, and thus would chase a helper waving a rag around at this age, we don't do it. Maybe a couple times here and there, but with most we don't start protection until at least a year old, maybe older. Or if we do do some early drive and grip work when young, the dog then gets put up for quite a while to grow out a bit before moving to the next step. Maturity brings a variety and balance of drives with which to work, things that pups just don't have, and this way we can treat the work more seriously and not just as a game becuase frankly it shouldn't be just a game, even though many do approach it as such.

Give him a year, maybe more, to mature. You'll probably see a very different dog then. But it will still be imperative to find a training group who knows how to read the dog and work him appropriately for who he is, not work him like other dogs of very different temperament. Given this current training group is quick to wash him out because he doesn't act like a prey monger at this age, getting good training that is appropriate for your dog may well require finding a training group more open to working dogs of different types, and adjusting the type of work to fit what each individual dog needs, not trying to fit all puppies into the mold of what they prefer and dismissing those who don't automatically fit that mold.


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## Jason L

LisaBriz said:


> He's very polite, and consious of not being too rough (especially with me).


This is really the only thing I would work on right now ... to get him to be more exuberant and pushy around you, to teach him to be active instead of reactive (reactive in the sense of waiting for you to initiate play). It does not even need to involve a ball or tug. It can just be you two goofing around and roughhousing but just get him to loosen up and be a little "less polite" around you.

Everything else (rag, decoy work, etc.) I would leave alone for now.


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## Emoore

So for someone who has a pup from these lines (ahem) and just wants to do fun enjoyable hobbies with their dog without ruling out Sch down the road, what would you recommend? Not formal obedience? Maybe rally? Agility? 

Also, we are all about natural exuberance and happy, pushy dogs in this house.  But can a dog be taught to be polite and respectful of a disabled relative without squashing his natural exuberance and pushyness?


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## elisabeth_00117

Emoore, from my personal experience with Stark, if you plan to do obedience... ensure you are going to the right trainer who understands your future intents (even if they are just a "maybe we will try that later on").

I did several "pet obedience courses with Stark and he was very polite with me, I rewarded calm behaviours and got just that... I squashed his drive, I totally believe that. It has taken me MONTHS and MONTHS to get to the point where I am today with him.

I would recommend doing obedience at a schH club if you have any intention of trying the sport, this way they can help you get started in the right direction. Agility is good too!


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## Jason L

Emoore, I think agility is a great idea and there is a place in our area that I highly recommend called Dallas Dog Sport (it's Dottie's agility place so I am biased!)

Pre-Agility

They run a great pre-agility program that places a nice balance between drive and control. Perfect for a future sports dog!


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## Jason L

Emoore said:


> Also, we are all about natural exuberance and happy, pushy dogs in this house.  But can a dog be taught to be polite and respectful of a disabled relative without squashing his natural exuberance and pushyness?


I think so. Environmentally, you can set it up so that "house" means "quiet, no play, behave" (for example, don't play with the pup inside the house. No toys other than chew toys or kong) and then when you take the pup outside, all heck breaks loose and let him go nuts. You can even condition him to go nuts on a particular area outside. You see this a lot with young SchH dogs. As soon as they step on the training field, they go bonkers because they have been classically conditioned to associate training field with chasing ball, tugging, biting, etc.


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## Emoore

Dallas Dog Sport is where Cash and I did agility! He loved it there! We were doing the exercise where the instructor holds your dog and you run to the other end of the field and call them. . . before I got a chance to call him he, uh, pulled her halfway down the field.


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## Jason L

Emoore said:


> Dallas Dog Sport is where Cash and I did agility! He loved it there! We were doing the exercise where the instructor holds your dog and you run to the other end of the field and call them. . . before I got a chance to call him he, uh, pulled her halfway down the field.


Cool! Terri and Patty run such a great program!!! I really think it's a great place to start a pup, whether you are going to do agility or Schutzhund or something else later on. One of our SchH club member just started her 4 months old pup in Pre-agility 1.


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## LisaBriz

Wow! Where to start....

Chris Wild - I'm sure you don't remember me, but I almost got one of _your_ pups. We spoke on the phone... Thanks so much for responding, because your thoughts are spot on. They want him to act like a malinois in a shepherd suit. I do understand why their logic is so - 45 minutes on the field is a looooonnnng time. Also, the other French line shepherds in our club are a lot like the mals.

Fear and nerves - He will back off (meaning let go of the rag/toy) if the decoy is moving fast towards him, or juking. Does he tuck tail? No. Does he run away? No. But I would say he lacks confidence... He does not challenge the decoy or chase the toy with the reckless abandon that the mals do (ie lack of intensity).

Maybe I was misleading when I said sleeve - I meant small squishy puppy sleeve used as a tug.

Eagle (my puppy) will play tug with fleecies, frisbee (kong), and the ball on the string. I'm a big Mike Ellis subscriber - so that's the way we play. We play with energy and goofiness and Eagle loves it. I haven't taught the out yet because of my concerns. We trade toys.

Decoys and training - You guys have some good points, although I would say I'm working with some VERY qualified people (don't know if I should I name drop here?)...... BUT, (huge BUT) They are mostly malinois people. The one German Shepherd hobbiest is the only one telling me not to count him out. BTW her "medium drive" Shepherd boy that the club has been telling her for YEARS won't make it, just got his MR1 at the La Junta trial. So there.  

Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone for your words of encouragement - People were advising me to rehome this dog to a pet home. When the club trainer had the candid discussion with me about him washing out I cried and cried. We are not a family that takes bringing a dog into the home lightly, nor are we a family that has the means to get as many dogs as we want (and care for them like we think we should). Adding a third dog would be really tough for us. But, participating in this training is paramount to my development as a trainer (it's a career move for me). So I was completely torn up inside.


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## Chris Wild

Not really questioning the qualifications of the people. But rather their suitability for working this type of dog. Two very different things. A GSD is not a Mal and cannot, or at least should not, be worked like a Mal. A GSD of a bloodline that is the least Mal-like of all, and pretty much on the complete opposite extreme, certainly cannot.

One could have on hand the best person in the world when it comes to fitting round pegs in round holes. Someone experience working with all sizes of round pegs and holes and who can fit them perfectly. But show up with a square peg, and there will be problems.

The dog cannot change who he is to fit the training. The training must adjust to fit the dog. If a highly qualified round peg fitter can't adjust to working with a square peg, then the outcome isn't going to be a great one. Might be able to round those edges a bit, but nothing is going to make the square peg into a circle, and all that will happen is a lot of frustration on the part of everyone, and some unfair pounding on that square peg trying to make it round.


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## szariksdad

Wow I asked a few questions and before I can get back to you the thread exploded. I would not wash this dog out given his lineage. I do not know what you club is doing to help you imprint foundation in the dog, however it sounds like they are focused on only how to train mals to do mondio. I would recommend looking at a couple of other clubs where the dogs are a mix of mals and gsd where they understand gsd's better. What are you doing for foundation work for your self at home with the pup? Also what is the club doing for foundation work on the pup?


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## LisaBriz

There are mals, GSDs, Dobes, and Dutchies in the club.

Foundation work is play - Play with me, play with the decoy: Chase this object and grab it, and when you grab it, "YAY! You're so big and strong! What a good puppy!"


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## rvadog

Have you called you breeder?

Some breeders will tell you right up front that they have slow maturing lines. If you tell your breeder that your dog still isn't interested in a rag and he's surprised then maybe you do have a dud.


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## szariksdad

It sounds to me like your club is only focusing on the prey part of the pups development not the defense also. With me my slow maturing Czech we had to start with him working first in defense and then channel prey appropriately to blossom him. At now 11months he is fist seeing a puppy sleeve. This might be a track you want to try with your pup


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## LisaBriz

I have not called the breeder - but I did post the exact same post on the forum that he moderates. I don't want to be accusatory if there is no need. So, I'm seeking advice from people who know these dogs to make sure I'm doing everything I can before having a knock-down-drag-out with the breeder..... Who will probably (in contract) want my dog back if I want any compensation or a new pup.


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## szariksdad

Have you tried to take your pup to any other clubs in your area for an evaluation. This club might not be a good fit for what your dog needs for successful training?


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## LisaBriz

Yes.  I have tried to take him to 3 of 3 mondio clubs in Colorado - Rocky Mountain Mondio, Pikes Peak Mondio, and Colorado Mondio (of which I'm a member). That's how he got to see so many decoys.


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## GSD07

Lisa, may I ask you a question? Why did you decide to go with the DDR? What qualities drew you to this line?

You have a very nice pup on your hands, very normal, very well bred (I guessed who your breeder was, and looked up the pedigree of your dog) and very typical DDR, from what you say. I am not sure he's a fit for the sport you chose, though. You need a trainer who is familiar with these lines otherwise you are risking ruining your perfectly fine dog.


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## SchDDR

JKlatsky said:


> Most of the DDR dogs I have seen work are soft to the handler, slow with the prey drive, and as mature dogs operate with a lot more defense. Many do not fully mature into their drives until they are 3 and 4 years old.


This is pretty much spot on.

Sounds like a normal DDR pup to me.


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## BlackthornGSD

Even with a high prey West German/Belgian dog, I would say that going to 5 clubs before the dog is 7 months old is a lot. That is to say, you're not going to get the maximum response in a young dog at the first visit.

As far as the club stuff, I'd recommend backing way off, just playing with him at the club field, ask the decoys to play and tug with him a little so he's having fun with them and likes tugging with strange/new people. And work on other sorts of drive-building and fun stuff with him while he does some growing up.

And that'd be my advice for almost any GSD that is under a year old, much less a DDR one.

I'm seeing, in particular, with my Grafental/Ludwigseck bloodline puppies that they are much more aware of the world and they don't have the focus and intensity of my West German/Belgian dogs. I'm going to read the Ball Drive thread and see what I can learn--I'm sure there's some tips there that I will find useful, myself.  I really enjoy the DDR temperament, but it's not my first choice for a personal sport/competition dog.


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## onyx'girl

Weclome to the site, Lisa.
I agree with Christine(and everyone else in this thread, consistency is key with a young dog.
If there is one group you trust and click with, stay with them and let your pup grow up.


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## LisaBriz

I was drawn to Shepherds because, frankly, the thought of living with a malinois makes me shiver - and not in a good way.

I wanted a dog that could do the work, but had (somewhat) of an 'off-button.'

I wanted a dog that was more square and athletic - not roach-backed. I was coached that DDR Shepherds have less health issues.

I was coached that DDR dogs have plenty of drive (prey). 

I spoke with several breeders, on numerous occassions, and they told me the DDR dog could do the work.

I studied and waited a YEAR for this dog, to get this puppy.

I'm so glad everybody has responded with candor and honesty - live and learn, huh? I'm not going to give up on Eagle Vom Linmarc (for those of you who want to see the ped). We are very happy to have him as a pet, and now all I can do is keep playing and building a relationship and hope he blossoms into the working dog I'm hoping for.


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## LaRen616

I LOVE black puppies!

He is so handsome! :wub::wub::wub:


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## lhczth

It isn't just the DDR dogs, but dogs that also go back heavily on the Lierbergs (Bernd, Bodo, etc) that don't show a ton of drive at a young age. Many of these dogs are more aggression based dogs and not prey monsters. Then males are even worse. My male Donovan is mostly WGWL (a LOT of Lierberg) with a TINY bit of DDR (through Ilja schwarzen Zwinger). His sire was considered a "sleeper" until he was well over a year. Donovan started to get crazy over toys as he approached a year. Rag work was a waste of time. He did have a few rounds on a sleeve, but mostly I did nothing with him in protection until he was well over a year and even then he still has had maybe 2 dozen rounds of protection with many of those involving no biting (he will be two in March). He is still mentally young, but his attention span has increased dramatically since last fall and I am seeing other signs of maturity and this year I will be able to do more.

You must understand the lines you are working (and breeding) so you know what is normal, when to lay them up and wait, and the signs that they are ready to start working. If I had expected Donovan to act like a Mal at 7 months I would have been sorely disappointed.


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## SchDDR

LisaBriz said:


> I was drawn to Shepherds because, frankly, the thought of living with a malinois makes me shiver - and not in a good way.
> *
> DDRs are definitely not Mals, so you were spot-on there.*
> 
> I wanted a dog that could do the work, but had (somewhat) of an 'off-button.'
> *
> More than likely, you have that. DDRs tend to have a good "off button".*
> 
> I wanted a dog that was more square and athletic - not roach-backed. I was coached that DDR Shepherds have less health issues.
> *
> Less health issues than what? You have to look at the individual lines, but certainly, you're getting a structure closer to what v. Stephanitz intended with a straight-backed dog.*
> 
> I was coached that DDR dogs have plenty of drive (prey).
> *
> Yeah... not so much. At least, not so much at a young age. And chances are, they will never have more prey than defense. That doesn't make the dog unworkable, it means you have to learn to train the dog the way it needs to be trained, rather than the way you see the other dogs being trained.*
> 
> I spoke with several breeders, on numerous occassions, and they told me the DDR dog could do the work.
> *
> Your pup likely can. But you're expect too much, too soon, from these lines.*
> 
> I studied and waited a YEAR for this dog, to get this puppy.
> 
> I'm so glad everybody has responded with candor and honesty - live and learn, huh? I'm not going to give up on Eagle Vom Linmarc (for those of you who want to see the ped). We are very happy to have him as a pet, and now all I can do is keep playing and building a relationship and hope he blossoms into the working dog I'm hoping for.


That's the right attitude.


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## cliffson1

Lisa,
By all means don't give up. Different lines/types of dogs often have different structural/mental/temperament traits, from over a period of time of breeding. Often people don't know these things upon looking for a good dog. I "personally" think it is important to help make this knowledge available so a person has an idea before they start training as you have. I have a Linmarc dog that is 15 months old...she is much more assertive in her gripwork today than she was at one year old. I don't look for her to mature until she is close to three years old. Yet she has fabulous nerve and excellent instinctive traits I like to see. Your dog will be fine if you just keep working and leave the expectations out of the equation. The dog will get there!!


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## LisaBriz

Thanks, Cliff. 
What are you training in (Schutzhund or....)? Did you start your puppy in protection via defense? If so, did you do it using our breeder's method?


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## cliffson1

I started her in herding because it gave her a chance to use and further develop her strong natural instincts, and at the same time stay "free" in terms of obedience devlopment bleeding into psyche. Herding really develops and enhances the prey drive which often the DDR lines have less of than is necessary to "shine" in American Sch clubs much less mondio/ring clubs. This is working against the tide in my view. All of the DDR dogs in Germany get titled very easily so its not that DDR dogs can't do Sch...more it is more clubs in America have TD that are expert in prey drive and bite development, and not as skilled in working dogs with less prey drive and more defense drive. These defense driven dogs sometimes don't mature in the defense stage until much later.Yet we try to make them compete with prey monsters bred for this trait and wonder why the result is so dismal. If you are going to stay where you are, just take it slow and let the puppy tell you when its right. With these dogs the light comes on one day and that same dog starts really becoming strong, if the TD and handler don't do irreversible damage in young stage by trying to make the puppy do and be what it isn't. 
You should really explore avenues when the dog is allowed to freely use natural abilities, like herding and agility, until the pup is somewhat older. The work in a protection club won't necessarily hurt the dog, but again in obedience most clubs and people today train obedience with props that prey dogs take to like water. This may not be enough stimulation to make your dog progress like the others in the club...so we get frustrated and this travels down the leash. Could write a book on this topic, but don't have time because I have to train my dogs to have street cred in some people's eyes. Take care!


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