# Opinions on getting a puppy please.



## Argus_81 (Mar 8, 2015)

Hi! As the title says, I am considering getting a GSD puppy. My wife ran across a man at the vet that just had a litter. I have visited his home and saw the sire and dam. He seems like a very honest man and the dogs appear to be well taken care of. The dam is imported from the Czech Republic and the sire is from Vom Banach K9 Kennel. 

One of my biggest considerations are if a GSD would get along well with my 2 Chihuahuas. I have a 4 year old male and a 7 month old female. The female seems to have taken the dominant role and the male has always been more of a keep to himself kind of guy around other dogs. I have been told that a female might be better for my situation, but then I've also heard that females often have same sex aggression more than males. I've also heard that I should wait until my girl is older, and I've also been told that going ahead and getting a GSD now will be better because the pack is more flexible at the moment. Basically I've heard a lot of contradicting information. My 7 month old female is already pretty well behaved and we are about to get her into some training classes. It would also be almost 2 months until we got a pup if we decide to.

I've been reading a lot about GSDs and am aware of their exercise and training needs. It should also be noted that I have been wanting a larger breed for a long time now and have been decided on a GSD for a while. It's not an impulsive decision because my wife saw the pups...it just seemed fairly serendipitous that she did 

One other thing is the pups I am looking at I'm told the lines are high drive. Is this desirable for me?

Thanks and I greatly appreciate any replies.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...wner/188549-puppy-biting-hints-tips-help.html
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...191183-top-training-expectations-puppies.html

If I were you I'd really be reading up on what owning a gsd means and about the different lines PLUS figure out how many hours of free time you now have a week to train,socialize,and exercise a gsd puppy I'd you do get one. Is there a good trainer to sign up for classes. Chihuahuas are great dogs but they are in no way like a gsd.


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## Argus_81 (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks for your reply Maggie. I was only mentioning my Chihuahuas to ask what sex of GSD might be a better fit. I am well aware that a Chi is no GSD lol. I've read lots of the stickies and posts on these forums but I guess everyone just wants some input on their personal situation.

Me and my wife both work 8 hour days, though our hours are often slightly staggered. Other than work my free time is free, so I think I'd have a pretty good amount of time to raise the pup. I do understand raising a GSD will probably be 10x more of a nightmare than my Chi pup, as she was actually fairly easy. 

Anyways I would appreciate any and all replies, especially to my questions and if any of you have any questions for me to see if I would be a suitable owner, please ask.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well I'm really good at being Mr Bad news bear! I'll "assume" your current dogs are well trained?? That would not be a guarantee of no "potential" problems but it is a step in the right direction!

So first thing to learn before hand...two dogs are a pair, three dogs are a pack! That means something, stuff you need to know:
https://suite.io/adrienne-farricelli/2t5h2q5

You mentioned female/female...I think this is your concern:
Leerburg | Inter-Female Aggression in Dogs

And male/male...GSD's are a high rank drive dog, me and my Bull Mastiff/APBT/lab mix found out what that means first hand!

This is a much easier way to learn:
(Elements of Temperament, by Joy Tiz )

Temperament is "extremely" important, more so than sex of the dog, don't limit your breeder by specifying a gender!

You don't want to find yourself here:
Leerburg | Dealing with the Dominant Dog

With dogs as small as those...you can't afford to make "basic" mistakes! My go to suggestions can be found here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

I discovered 'Who Pets my Puppy or Dog" after the fact but it worked out well! That is how I "socialize" all my dogs now!

Stay away from Dog Parks and 'I thought my dog was friendly people" puppy training classes and know safe dogs are the way to go!

Another dog park view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3c5X8wCzc0&feature=youtu.be

And back to puppies:
Leerburg Dog Training | The Ground Work to Becoming Your Puppy's Pack Leader

Generally I "don't " recommend GSD's to most folks myself... but as long as you understand the things, I posted, and get a dog with solid temperament and are willing to put in the time and avoid "obvious" mistakes, you should do OK!


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## Regen (Mar 8, 2007)

Chip18 said:


> Well I'm really good at being Mr Bad news bear! I'll "assume" your current dogs are well trained?? That would not be a guarantee of no "potential" problems but it is a step in the right direction!
> 
> So first thing to learn before hand...two dogs are a pair, three dogs are a pack! That means something, stuff you need to know:
> https://suite.io/adrienne-farricelli/2t5h2q5
> ...


:thumbup:

This! 

I am always happy when others beside myself, chime in and try to be the voice of reason. The combination of 2 resident Chihuahuas , and then adding a GSD....You are rightly concerned, and I can only add yet another voice to that . I am not saying it can't be done, but the amount of training and commitment required on your part, especially if your small dogs are "trained" like most small dogs, and the non existent room for mistakes which could prove devastating, make this very challenging.


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## Regen (Mar 8, 2007)

It would not let me edit my original post, and I forgot to address the fact that the puppy you are thinking about getting comes from high drive lines. This is NOT desirable for you and your situation, and I can't stress the NOT enough. 

I have raised one of these dogs. Everything Chip18 and I mentioned about the difficulties you will face with adding a GSD to your household with two working adults and resident small dogs, would be quadrupled with a high drive pup.

This is not perfect, but still gives you a small idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXqNl5bTCMU


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Regen said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXqNl5bTCMU


That was the Boxer pup I wanted!! The male puppy standing on top of a pile of puppies barking his head off!! 

But I got a girl (Boxer pup) she was, very quiet but that changed however she turned out to be a balanced dog.

Still crazy but not over the top.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

Argus, my GSD is just over a year male, intact and has been raised with 2 small dogs 15 lbs (Schipperkes) a male and female both fixed just turned 8. I hadn't owned a small dog before always had big ones so these guys were handled and trained like a big dog same expectations. We never allow any unsupervised play or interaction, there is no toys in the house and any posturing by any of them is squashed. All are crate trained treats, and feeding is done in there my dogs treat their crates like their bedrooms they will often just chill in them. My GSD plays rough and for that reason I always make sure my husband or I are his playmate outside flirt pole, chuck it, find it the Schips are out there with us but the GSD is for the most part occupied. Hopefully some of this helped just understand that it is your responsibility to keep all of them safe. Find a good trainer to work with and choose a pup with lower drives.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dmom said:


> ust understand that it is your responsibility to keep all of them safe. Find a good trainer to work with and choose a pup with lower drives.


WOW there you go! It sounds like you already understand the pack thing and now you understand the "quirks" that make a GSD...not just another Dog! 

Well put!:hug:


So I'll be off to yet another K9 wanna be that someone grabbed by the collar and smacked, the "handler was"...not a leader...dog took exception to it!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

What Dmom said. I know people personally who keep Chi's and GSDs, but it must be done with caution.

I have a client that successfully keeps a WL. GSD and a Chi. Both dogs are very well behaved. Naturally due to the size difference the two don't really play together and when the owners are not home the GSD is kept separate from the Chi, just to be safe, same as Dmom. It's not that the GSD is aggressive just the mechanics of physics.

One of our members here keeps a Chi with multiple GSDs, SL and WL. (Qbchottu).

A more mellow male pup may be better....they *tend* to be less interested in bossing the females around, then the other way around. 

Good luck.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Just curios: were you planning on a GSD pup before you saw the guy at the vet office? If not, this might be an impulse decision.
I have a high drive young dog and I cannot imagine her with Chis. You are about to make your life very complicated. You have been warned! Did this breederou cold call Vom Banach for her opinion if she doesn't own the sire anymore.


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## Cobe914 (Sep 29, 2014)

You seem to be taking this decision pretty seriously, being that you've done some research, and you're asking for advice... Kudos for that! Those sound like some pretty great pups, but I'd have to agree with what others have said with regards to seeking a lower drive shepherd. Czech lines, from what I've seen, are pretty intense. Having jobs, a couple of dogs already, and a wife, you might miss sleeping 
Lower drive doesn't mean lower quality, but maintaining a harmonious household with Chis and shepherds will present enough challenges, and you don't want to bite off more then you can chew.
Good luck with your research, and finding perfect fit for your family, whatever it may be


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## Argus_81 (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks for the input guys. Wolfy, yes I was already considering either a GSD or Golden, which is why I felt it was kind of serendipitous that my wife ran into that litter at the vet. Good advice, and I had already thought to myself that if I do this feeding should be done in crates and toys strictly monitored.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Did this breederou cold call Vom Banach for her opinion if she doesn't own the sire anymore.


 Sorry, got this all messed up yesterday;hit the send button too soon . This is what I meant to say: You could call the breeder of the sire (Vom Banach) for her opinion, if she doesn't own him anymore.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

You can raise a GSD puppy with small dogs. I have a 16 month old intact male GSD and 3 females - a 40lb lab mix, 30lb aussie mix, and an 8lb chihuahua/dacshund mix. We also spend a lot of time around my parents' dogs, which are a female ACD and a male neutered 5lb chi/yorkie mix. We have no issues whatsoever, but we are also very clear in expectations and have been since we brought him home. I would not allow a GSD puppy to play with your chis, ever, because what is cute with an 8 week puppy can easily turn dangerous as the puppy gets bigger. I would keep the GSD puppy on a leash at first and always redirect play to you. Spend time together around the chis, hang out together as a family, but no rough housing. Do not leave them together unsupervised. Agree with using crates and feeding/giving treats like bones etc in crates. Be careful with toys - some dogs can have toys lying around but it becomes a problem for other dogs. And I do not allow any posturing or snarkiness with my dogs, period. It sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. Management in a multidog house is important and quickly becomes a way of life. 

I would defer to breeders and the people who know your dogs to decide if a male or female will be a better fit for your situation. A lot of this will depend on the dogs' individual personalities. A high drive dog may or may not be a good fit for you - this will depend on your ability as a handler and what you are looking for in a dog. Again, defer to the breeder; they can help you find a good dog for your situation. Go out and meet the dogs at home and watch them train if you can. High drive dogs can live peacefully with small dogs too. My IPO trainer has high drive, national level dogs that live peacefully with a papillon. Good luck with your search


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> What Dmom said. I know people personally who keep Chi's and GSDs, but it *must be done with caution.*
> 
> One of our members here keeps a Chi with multiple GSDs, SL and WL. (Qbchottu).
> 
> A more mellow male pup may be better....


I have a few GSDs and one Chi. My chi holds her own very well with the GSDs, but I'm very mindful of who I let together with her. 

My higher drive and low threshold WL is terrible with my chi. My chi hates her, and my WL has a hard time controlling her prey drives around the chi. I don't let these two together - there was one incident where the WL went after my chi, and almost hurt the chi. It wasn't the WL's fault because her drives are what they are, but since then I've always had them out separately. 

My balanced WL with a clear head is much better with my chi, but my chi doesn't like her either. The balanced WL leaves the chi alone for the most part, but the chi still hasn't taken a liking to the WL after all this time. Doubt they'll ever be " friends". 

My female chi only likes my oldest showline female, my oldest male showline, and my male showline puppy. The chi still grumbles and dislikes all the other showlines. 

If I were you, I would get an opposite sex, moderate drive, showline GSD rather than going with a WL if you have multiple small dogs. I've just seen a lot of issues with dogs with higher drives annoying little dogs. 

Regardless of what you pick, be prepared for them not to get along. Just a risk you run with putting multiple breeds and sexes into the same pack. 

Good luck


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

My GSD was raised with two small dogs and he has very high prey drive, I say it's a lot different when they're raised from puppies with smaller dogs. 'But' I will say that it took a better part of a year to get him better controlled and for him to calm down with the small dogs and cats... He also has very strong herding drives(we train in herding) and they couldn't move around him without him having to follow them around and be a giant nuisance. It took a long time to get him to stop chasing the cats and it's still not perfect, fortunately he doesn't actually want to hurt them he just wants to control their movement. Remember this is a herding breed. He's doing better now but movement does excite him and I'd never ever leave him unattended with the small dogs and cats.



In your particular situation I would advise against a GSD, it certainly can work but it's going to require a huge amount of dedication especially if you want a higher drive dog. GSDs also take much much longer to mentally mature than Chi's and raising a GSD is A LOT harder especially once they reach adolescents. I would say to try and spend some time around these dogs before you jump into a working line, they can be a lot to handle. They are also prone to having same sex aggression, my male GSD doesn't tolerate other males very well... He and my husbands male dog used to be best friends but then my GSD hit sexual maturity and that all went down the drain, now they are mostly kept apart and have to be managed when they're together because they will and have fought. A GSD getting into a fight Chi is not going to end well for the Chi.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

German Shepherd puppies are also very mouthy and bitey as puppies and they can easily accidentally hurt a fragile dog like a Chi with their razor sharp puppy teeth. I have a Chi/terrier mix and my boy bit her as a puppy, he was just trying to play and she was very tender and sore for several days from it. I always advise keeping puppies leashed in the house but especially in a case like this.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

osito23 said:


> You can raise a GSD puppy with small dogs. I have a 16 month old intact male GSD and 3 females - a 40lb lab mix, 30lb aussie mix, and an 8lb chihuahua/dacshund mix. We also spend a lot of time around my parents' dogs, which are a female ACD and a male neutered 5lb chi/yorkie mix. We have no issues whatsoever, but we are also very clear in expectations and have been since we brought him home. I would not allow a GSD puppy to play with your chis, ever, because what is cute with an 8 week puppy can easily turn dangerous as the puppy gets bigger. I would keep the GSD puppy on a leash at first and always redirect play to you. Spend time together around the chis, hang out together as a family, but no rough housing. Do not leave them together unsupervised. Agree with using crates and feeding/giving treats like bones etc in crates. Be careful with toys - some dogs can have toys lying around but it becomes a problem for other dogs. And I do not allow any posturing or snarkiness with my dogs, period. It sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. Management in a multidog house is important and quickly becomes a way of life.
> 
> I would defer to breeders and the people who know your dogs to decide if a male or female will be a better fit for your situation. A lot of this will depend on the dogs' individual personalities. A high drive dog may or may not be a good fit for you - this will depend on your ability as a handler and what you are looking for in a dog. Again, defer to the breeder; they can help you find a good dog for your situation. Go out and meet the dogs at home and watch them train if you can. High drive dogs can live peacefully with small dogs too. My IPO trainer has high drive, national level dogs that live peacefully with a papillon. Good luck with your search


Uh...WOW!!

That is extremely impressive! A sterling example of how to do it right! 


I did my three dog learning the "other way"... add one High Rank,Dominate ,male GSD (cute 7 month old puppy) one Balanced low rank drive, female Boxer and Low Rank drive but Dominate (well trained even under pressure) male Bull Mastiff/APBT/Lab mix. 

Add poor management (Lemans style dog dashes) Rocky was always second out the door...Boxer never got involved in the conflicts!! Lack of understand of the dog I had and bingo! You can learn crap the hard way! That works to!
Only part I got right was having a dog that could stand up under a pounding!

Only one going to the hospital was me for stitches in my hand...I also learned the...The proper way to break up a dog fight! 

When the Human aggression started...that's when I learned the "difference" between "leadership" of a dog and training a dog!

That way worked to but I think your way is better course of action!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm pretty sure the OP gets it, there current dogs can't afford a "slow learning curve!" But actually I think I do the "easy" way to do this!

And it comes for Cat/Dog world! Only one rule...don't let the dog chase the cat...ever! Same deal let the Chis come to the puppy but not the other way around!

Real world example my daughter in laws Great Dane!! He had a favorite Chi the others he ignored! But this one...good times! The Dane would lay down and the Chi would run up and down the dog and grab an ear then the tail, then up his back and down the other side! 

They were very gentle with each other and never had a problem! So yeah it can be done! But your going to have to be very good at "management!!"

Zero margin of error, right dog and right "Temperament" are key!


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## Argus_81 (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks for the replies guys, there have been some very constructive ones. To clarify, I am not necessarily looking for a high drive dog, I just meant that I assumed the ones I saw would be because they come from working lines. Ideally I would like as mellow and stable dog I could get from these lines. I really feel I am eyes wide open. I am not really looking forward to the puppy phase much at all, but really want a GSD and feel it best for it to be raised around my Chi's. Everyone in here at one point had their first GSD, some younger than others, but I understand where some of you are coming from. I know some people get dogs like these and have no idea what they are getting themselves into, but I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject and have read a lot of the horror stories. I really have received some great info in this thread, so thanks again.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

op, i urge you to pass on this litter. reading can only do so much. you need to find some clubs, get out there observe and ask questions. have your trainers lined up. my check/hungarian gsd was an extremely high drive. having grown up with gsd, owning gsd after i married, i figured i could handle her. i was wrong. i rec'd great help from the breeder and a couple trainers. hopefully you have a gsd club near you that you can visit to observe, meet some gsd folk and find dogs you like and talk to at least a few breeders.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

:thumbup:

I was going to say eyes wide open is good but we really don't know what "drive" is until we experience it, see it for ourselves. I still have much to learn, but now I know more about it's potential.......



huntergreen said:


> op, i urge you to pass on this litter. reading can only do so much. you need to find some clubs, get out there observe and ask questions. have your trainers lined up. my check/hungarian gsd was an extremely high drive. having grown up with gsd, owning gsd after i married, i figured i could handle her. i was wrong. i rec'd great help from the breeder and a couple trainers. hopefully you have a gsd club near you that you can visit to observe, meet some gsd folk and find dogs you like and talk to at least a few breeders.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

> I know some people get dogs like these and have no idea what they are getting themselves into, but I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject and have read a lot of the horror stories.


This is just my opinion (take it or leave it), but I think you should get the GSD that is a good fit for your home rather than girding your loins for a dog that could be a real struggle. This litter does sound very high drive. Maybe there will be a mellow pup in the litter, but maybe there won't be. I think you will be better off down the line if you stack the odds in your favor and get a puppy from parents that are mellow and stable given the kind of exercise and training you are happy to provide. There are SO many people breeding these dogs, you should not have any trouble finding a dog with stable temperament that is a bit lower in energy level. I also think it isn't really fair to the dog to try and squish the dog into the box that is your life, rather than getting a dog that fits in naturally. 

I already have a rescue GSD and she takes up a lot of my time. When I told people my next GSD would be a Czech working line dog (which is what Vom Banach breeds), every one warned me I would be in for a big change in terms of drive level. If it's a big lifestyle change for me, it certainly will be for you. This change is not necessarily bad if you want to get really involved with training your dog and working them, but it's not something to be taken lightly.


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