# Deer!



## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

A couple of hours ago (about 4 PM) I let Ranger out in the yard for a quick piddle and brushing before I ran an errand. Little did I know that there were 2 fawns and a doe in the wooded part of our yard. Ranger took off... Mom (the doe) stayed for a few minutes then she took off. Neither fawn was able to get over my 4 foot fence. Not sure why since they obviously jumped in. I suppose the fear made them too scared to make it over. Finally 1 of the fawns got out but the other fawn was stuck and became Ranger's sole prey. He chased and caught that poor fawn several times. He never bit it or anything but he scared the living daylights out of that poor fawn. He kept cornering it against the fence and it seemed to be hurting itself trying to jump over. I felt so awful for the poor fawn. And I am embarrassed to say that Ranger would not listen to me at all. Finally I caught him but the poor fawn was still caught in our yard and looked very scared and possibly hurt. I feel awful.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Oh no!Is the fawn gone now and back safe with Mom?It's good you didn't intervene anyway.Even baby deer have been known to inflict serious damage to people trying to help them.
I'm sure Ranger was so geeked up he never even heard you call him.Three running,jumping,prey critters trapped in his yard!You know where he'll dash off towards as soon as you let him out for the next few days.Glad you,Ranger,and hopefully fawn are ok.
If it's any consolation I think 9 out of 10 dogs would have done the same.It's different when they're enclosed like that and can't run off into the woods.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

That's why they need a distraction free, perfect recall, and no, mine aren't perfect either. I hope the fawn can get out.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I think a lot of dogs with a healthy prey drive wouldn't listen well if at all in a situation like that. You have to think that is like the most exciting thing a dog could find in the back yard. Be careful though, I know someone who's young GSD went after a deer in the yard and got kicked in the face by the deer so bad it needed titanium teeth put in, not cheap!


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

dogma13 said:


> Oh no!Is the fawn gone now and back safe with Mom?It's good you didn't intervene anyway.Even baby deer have been known to inflict serious damage to people trying to help them.
> I'm sure Ranger was so geeked up he never even heard you call him.Three running,jumping,prey critters trapped in his yard!You know where he'll dash off towards as soon as you let him out for the next few days.Glad you,Ranger,and hopefully fawn are ok.
> If it's any consolation I think 9 out of 10 dogs would have done the same.It's different when they're enclosed like that and can't run off into the woods.


Thanks for your response. I don't see the fawn anymore but it is often really tough to see deer in the wooded part of my yard. They are almost impossible to see until they move so if it is dead.... I don't want to think about that. I think it did not die because it was walking around after I got Ranger back in the house. If it is okay I think it will easily reunite with its mom since these same 3 deer (mom and 2 fawns) spend all their time in our neighborhood, probably within a couple of blocks. Still I am going to be nervous until I see the 3 of them again. I hope I see them soon though I suspect it may be a while since they probably won't be coming back to my yard.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

LuvShepherds said:


> That's why they need a distraction free, perfect recall, and no, mine aren't perfect either. I hope the fawn can get out.


I really need to work on recall. I never let him off leash unless he is in our yard so I never had a test of recall like I did yesterday. It is so important! I remember an incident about 20 years ago, and it still upsets me. We were going hiking with our dog and we always hiked with her on a leash. As we were entering the trail a young man was frantically calling his dog. He told us that he had been hiking and his dog saw a deer and took off after it. He had been looking for hours and could not find the dog. The story still makes me sick to my stomach.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

astrovan2487 said:


> I think a lot of dogs with a healthy prey drive wouldn't listen well if at all in a situation like that. You have to think that is like the most exciting thing a dog could find in the back yard. Be careful though, I know someone who's young GSD went after a deer in the yard and got kicked in the face by the deer so bad it needed titanium teeth put in, not cheap!


I believe it was quite exciting for Ranger. His canine brother died a little over a year ago so he has had no one to "play" with in the backyard for quite some while. I hadn't even thought about the danger of getting kicked. Actually I am now surprised that the fawn did not kick him. Ranger cornered the fawn several times both against the fence and on the ground. Several times the fawn was on the ground just lying there while Ranger stood over him. The fawn looked terrified and I felt awful. Ranger didn't walk away until the fawn was totally exhausted.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I will say that I would completely freak out and not know what to do. In my case it most likely wouldn't be just one dog. I can imagine that they might even redirect on each other in a case like this. My golden is a very obedient dog and when he finds a toad all the sudden he can't hear me


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

llombardo said:


> I will say that I would completely freak out and not know what to do. In my case it most likely wouldn't be just one dog. I can imagine that they might even redirect on each other in a case like this. My golden is a very obedient dog and when he finds a toad all the sudden he can't hear me


Thank you for confessing that you would freak out as well. I really felt like a total idiot when the whole thing was over. I felt like I didn't handle it well at all and that poor fawn...


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Wow that must have been an intense night. I'm sure the fawn is fine and you'll see it around soon! But this is a good training moment so that now you know you have to work on your recall in a high distraction situation. Though I'm sure Ranger is a very smart boy and was just overexcited.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Rangers_mom said:


> Thank you for confessing that you would freak out as well. I really felt like a total idiot when the whole thing was over. I felt like I didn't handle it well at all and that poor fawn...


I can tell you my neighbors would hear me. 

Here is an example of Tannor. He finds a toad and will not move from the spot until I pick the toad up. He has stayed put for up to 30 minutes staring at a toad. If I can't get him to move I can't imagine getting several to back off a deer.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

my boy tries to touch worms with his nose. Then does this delighted little dance because he felt something wriggly on his nose lol. I wanted to see if the vibration on the Dogtra E Collar would scare him, so I held the collar in my hand and vibed it near his head. He was curious and touched that with his nose and apparently liked it because if I vibe the collar he will keep deliberately pressing his nose against it like " hey, that feels COOL"


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I would have freaked too seeing my dogs going after a trapped Bambi.I've called them off of deer and fawns successfully but not under the same circumstances as Ranger.Out in the woods and farm fields around us the dogs are well aware that they can never catch one.They are happy enough to scare them up,run a few feet,then obey a Leave It!
They'll even lay in the yard and watch them grazing beyond,probably hoping they'll come in the yard so they can run them back out.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Glad to here everyone was okay. Controlling prey drive is the biggest challenge for me. Us why we ventured into Sheepherding. Yes we have many deer and wild turkeys here. The wild turkeys bring their babies here for some wild reason. There is about 15 of them that come here. One time Max cornered one baby I did flip out. The turkey did live and wasn't hurt. Now just recently when the turkeys come in the yard I can actually have Max loose and we play ball with 15 turkeys watching us. Those turkeys have balls I will tell you that or they are just dumb. One turkey making a clicking noise that kind of sent Max in a pursuit but was able to diverge him with the ball. This is a huge step for us a huge step. Max does have a very strong prey drive so it is quite the challenge. One thing I think helps is the turkeys kind of just sit around unless they feel in danger.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

dogma13 said:


> I would have freaked too seeing my dogs going after a trapped Bambi.I've called them off of deer and fawns successfully but not under the same circumstances as Ranger.Out in the woods and farm fields around us the dogs are well aware that they can never catch one.They are happy enough to scare them up,run a few feet,then obey a Leave It!
> They'll even lay in the yard and watch them grazing beyond,probably hoping they'll come in the yard so they can run them back out.


I have actually successfullycalled him off the deer in our yard in the past but I caught the whole thing earlier in the process. I guess once he got into the prey drive mode it was impossible for me to get through to him.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

Ha, ha! Well at least a toad is not as fast as a deer.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Sucks when something like this happens and they blow you off. Odds are the fawn was battered but ok, hopefully you'll see it around soon enough (outside your yard).


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## Saito (Dec 3, 2015)

I guess I'm a little 'lucky' to have the pointer mutt, as he/I have dealt with these kind of things regularly enough to now be good with it. No deer, but he has caught/cornered things plenty in the yard. I just have to walk up to what he has found and he backs off. Not like he walks away, though, but to give me space to deal with it. He'll be super focused and ready to bark & nip at it, if it decides to make any movement. "I got your back, Dad!" He'll obey commands, if I issue them.

Of course, the differences in breeds make handling these situations much different. But at least if your shepherds seriously hurt something, they're going to kill it. My jerk wants me to kill everything he finds...great if it has cooperated with him (such as the bunny) as I can just let it free, terrible if it doesn't and gets maimed/immobilized (birds).


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Rangers_mom said:


> Ha, ha! Well at least a toad is not as fast as a deer.


Oh don't let those little boogers fool you. The other day I tried catching one(and I'm a professional at this now) and it kept hopping away. I could not for the life of me catch him. Finally I stopped and busted out laughing because I must have looked super ridiculous trying to catch him and talk to him at the same time.....


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Oh don't let those little boogers fool you. The other day I tried catching one(and I'm a professional at this now) and it kept hopping away. I could not for the life of me catch him. Finally I stopped and busted out laughing because I must have looked super ridiculous trying to catch him and talk to him at the same time.....


As i wrote that i was actually thinking, "toads can be pretty fast" and your story was exactly the sort of encounter i was thinking of. What i should have specified is that a toad was not going to lead my GSD on 10 minute, full tilt dash around my quarter acre yard. Still i admit that a toad can be equaly as exasperating.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

llombardo said:


> Oh don't let those little boogers fool you. The other day I tried catching one(and I'm a professional at this now) and it kept hopping away. I could not for the life of me catch him. Finally I stopped and busted out laughing because I must have looked super ridiculous trying to catch him and talk to him at the same time.....


Haha!Try leopard frogs!Slippery and fast!I herd them to safety


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Rangers_mom said:


> I really need to work on recall. I never let him off leash unless he is in our yard so I never had a test of recall like I did yesterday. It is so important! I remember an incident about 20 years ago, and it still upsets me. We were going hiking with our dog and we always hiked with her on a leash. As we were entering the trail a young man was frantically calling his dog. He told us that he had been hiking and his dog saw a deer and took off after it. He had been looking for hours and could not find the dog. The story still makes me sick to my stomach.


I know every dog is slightly different, but IME, even a very well-trained recall has a chance of failing when the dog encounters a very strong distraction, for example a running deer or other wild animal. I've trained my dog on recall to a high level, and still do maintenance training, and I still have a shock collar as backup when I take him on hikes in the woods (which I've had to use a handful of times).

Something like a running animal is going to distract most dogs, even those with mild to low prey drives...it's just a matter of instincts. The best thing you can do, besides continuing with your recall training, is to have a backup plan: shock collar; keep him leashed on walks in the woods, ect.

On a side note, the deer are usually quick to learn which areas are "no-go" zones for them. I'm guessing the deer will either avoid your yard all together from here on out, or at least will be more cautious about entering it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

dogma13 said:


> Haha!Try leopard frogs!Slippery and fast!I herd them to safety


What's this one? It took me three days, lots of patience and determination to catch him.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

You caught one of the little buggers!You win


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

Dalko43 said:


> I know every dog is slightly different, but IME, even a very well-trained recall has a chance of failing when the dog encounters a very strong distraction, for example a running deer or other wild animal. I've trained my dog on recall to a high level, and still do maintenance training, and I still have a shock collar as backup when I take him on hikes in the woods (which I've had to use a handful of times).
> 
> Something like a running animal is going to distract most dogs, even those with mild to low prey drives...it's just a matter of instincts. The best thing you can do, besides continuing with your recall training, is to have a backup plan: shock collar; keep him leashed on walks in the woods, ect.
> 
> On a side note, the deer are usually quick to learn which areas are "no-go" zones for them. I'm guessing the deer will either avoid your yard all together from here on out, or at least will be more cautious about entering it.


I am hoping that the deer stay away. The deer have been coexisting with my dog (used to be 2 dogs) for years with very few incidents. They mostly ignored each other. Occassionally the dog(s) would chase the deer but when it happened before the deer just jumped right out. We even had a small fawn caught in our yard for a couple months 2 years ago and my dogs never once chased the fawn. Hopefully, if something good can come of this incident, it will be that the deer stay out of my yard.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

This is well known by the trainers of hunting dogs. It is called "crittering". Many dogs have been killed on roads chasing deer when the deer makes it in front of a car but the dog does not. The owner of another German Shepherd training site saw his best friend killed before his eyes when he was 17 and it made him vow to be a dog trainer. My Inga is 10 months old and she critters on birds and rabbits, and a few days ago she crittered on a deer. She did recall from 200 yards away by some miracle. I do have an e collar but not on her at that time. 

We live on a cattle ranch and I have a pet milk cow that lives in the yard who is about to calf. There are many mother cows here. A mama cow with a baby calf will kill a dog, especially a puppy. When the cow goes to butt the puppy it cowers down then the cow crushes it with her head. Or kills it with her horns. Crittering is very very serious on a cattle ranch. If they critter on other peoples cattle they will be shot. 

To train dogs not to critter you have to set up some situations, such as chicken in a cage. Goats work well for deer avoidance. The dog must not escalate their behavior into a chase and their prey drive overrides everything. The correction begins if they even LOOK at the critter. They are on a long line in case they run at the critter. Obviously, I am going to put Daphne and her calf away until Inga is proofed not to critter.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Long ago, I had this awesome female named Selah... She was ball crazy and a sweetheart.. I let her out in an enclosed yard to go potty and we had some rabbits in the yard.. She bolted for them and as they hoped away, her run changed and she started bouncing /hopping like the rabbits!!! Omgosh!! It was so hilarious!! She totally lost momentum (although she could hop pretty fast!) and they got away, but it was the funniest thing I remember about her.. And she was a character... 

Anyhow, as a SAR handler we have to work with our dogs on crittering.. Especially the air scent dogs.. Trailing dogs just need to be able to refocus quickly and continue on the trail (they are usually on a long line), but air scent dogs could flush something out at any time and since they are ranging, usually a good distance from their handler, crittering is a huge no no


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