# Rant-- "GSD to protect my family"



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Can I just go on a little rant here? I keep seeing people (presumably men) saying that they want a dog to protect their wife and kids while they're away. They look for signs that their dog is protective enough to trust with the responsibility of defending the home and family. 

Can I just say-- I'm really glad that in my household, I don't play third fiddle to an 80lb animal with no pre-frontal cortex when it comes to defending the home front. 

Seriously guys. If your wife can't protect herself and her children, she should probably take a lesson from _every other female_ in the animal kingdom. Daddy bear doesn't ask one of his wolf buddies to watch over poor defenseless mama bear and her cubs while he's away. No, even daddy bear doesn't *** with mama bear when it comes to her den or her cubs. 

Can we please all take some self-defense lessons, buy a good firearm, and stop perpetuating the helpless little woman stereotype? 

/rant


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

THANK YOU!!!! i love my dogs. They're family. Its nice they're deterents but i dont need them to protect me and my kids. I'm a mean mama bear type. I dont need the dogs to step in. Could they? sure if it was needed. Beyond that.... dont mess with me. I have a metal baseball bat that is next to my bed. I have my husbands very painful pellet rifle in a closet downstairs. and i'm not afraid to beat the tar outta someone. The dogs would probably sit back and stare!


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Woohoo ! Definitely! I am woman , hear me roar!!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think what I'm trying to say here is that there are things that people are better at than dogs, and there are things that dogs are better at than people. But I can't think of anything that a man is better at than a dog, but a dog is better at than a woman. Except maybe peeing outdoors. And scratching.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

emoore said:


> i think what i'm trying to say here is that there are things that people are better at than dogs, and there are things that dogs are better at than people. But i can't think of anything that a man is better at than a dog, but a dog is better at than a woman. *except maybe peeing outdoors. And scratching*.


 
lol


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## gracierose (Mar 19, 2011)

I couldn't agree more!! Take precautions, learn how to defend yourself and have a phone handy for 911. No one can predict what will happen in any scenario, but depending solely on your dog to keep you safe could end in tragedy. Thanks for the rant and a place to share your frustrations!


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

I also don't get the point in "guard dogs". They can act as "alarm dogs", but if someone really wants to get into somewhere, it's not that hard to take care of the guard dog(s).


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

When I see post like that the first thing I think about is the reality of someone breaking in. If they've got a knife or gun on them (And if the fact a dog could alert people to their presents isn't enough to make them think twice about breaking in, they're probably going to be carrying a weapon to defend themselves!) they can kill your dog just as fast if not faster than they can kill you and then your DOG becomes helpless. Now how is your wife going to protect herself, the kids and the dog who's laying on the ground bleeding to death if they didn't get in an instant kill?

I do feel that a dog is a good protector, a gun can't alert you to someone breaking in. But that gun should be there to back you up when it comes to protecting your family which includes the dog.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

I almost get the impression this thread is directed at me and my earlier thread.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

I'm a woman, and I have to admit that I feel a whole lot safer having my GSD's around. I'm not helpless, but I also don't know how well I would fair against a 200lb man. Kaiya probably wouldn't hurt a fly, but I think someone contemplating coming into my home to harm me might think twice because she's here. 

When we first moved into our home, I was up late one night, and the DH and kids were sleeping. I stepped out onto my back patio to smoke a cigarette. My home is the last house on a dead end road and basically surrounded by woods, and my backyard is fenced in with gates on each side. As I went to light my cigarette, I heard a noise to my left. As I turned, I saw the back of a man's jacket dart around the side of my house (still in my backyard). He had been standing about 8 feet from me when I stepped out. If he had decided to grab me, I wouldn't have had time to react, and my husband would've never woke up. For months I was terrified to go outside at night. Would just smoke in my garage. The DH said either I get a gun or a big dog. I have children, and the thought of one of them accidentally getting a hold of a gun and hurting themselves is unthinkable. 

Now when I go outside at night, I let Kaiya out first. She runs out and circles the yard. If there was someone out there, I'd know it. I don't expect her to attack, but I do expect her to alert me. This would give me time to get in the house, arm myself with a weapon, and phone the police. So with that said, I can understand some men's feeling about wanting to feel like their wives and children are safe because the dog is there.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Emoore said:


> No, even daddy bear doesn't *** with mama bear when it comes to her den or her cubs.
> /rant


:spittingcoffee:

I love that my dogs would be a deterrent. I love that they would alert me. But beyond that, if someone was breaking in, I DONT want my dogs to actually protect me... Because I'm not willing to lose them. I feel its MY job, to protect THEM. And I would. I'd protect them more fiercely than I'd protect myself.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

RazinKain said:


> I almost get the impression this thread is directed at me and my earlier thread.


I'm sure your post has something to do with this thread, but you're not the first person to post something like this in this or any other forum. 

I've seen and heard it plenty of times on the internet and in real life, so I wouldn't take it too personally.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I feel safer with my dogs but I think the protection thing goes both ways. When my old girls were young pups we lived on an isolated mountain road. My husband worked nights. One night they started freaking out at something in the front yard. I looked out and saw what appeared to be a man messing around with our truck. I thought about opening the door and letting the young dogs out to scare off whoever it was but something about the movement gave me pause. It wasn't a person, it was a bear.

I kept the dogs inside but I opened the door and said in my biggest voice--which was very shaky, "Hey Bear Get Outta Here" and it did. The dogs thought I was cool.

Oh, we were nowhere near the bear. We were on a second floor deck and in no immediate danger.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Tihannah said:


> I'm a woman, and I have to admit that I feel a whole lot safer having my GSD's around. I'm not helpless, but I also don't know how well I would fair against a 200lb man. Kaiya probably wouldn't hurt a fly, but I think someone contemplating coming into my home to harm me might think twice because she's here.
> 
> When we first moved into our home, I was up late one night, and the DH and kids were sleeping. I stepped out onto my back patio to smoke a cigarette. My home is the last house on a dead end road and basically surrounded by woods, and my backyard is fenced in with gates on each side. As I went to light my cigarette, I heard a noise to my left. As I turned, I saw the back of a man's jacket dart around the side of my house (still in my backyard). He had been standing about 8 feet from me when I stepped out. If he had decided to grab me, I wouldn't have had time to react, and my husband would've never woke up. For months I was terrified to go outside at night. Would just smoke in my garage. The DH said either I get a gun or a big dog. I have children, and the thought of one of them accidentally getting a hold of a gun and hurting themselves is unthinkable.
> 
> Now when I go outside at night, I let Kaiya out first. She runs out and circles the yard. If there was someone out there, I'd know it. I don't expect her to attack, but I do expect her to alert me. This would give me time to get in the house, arm myself with a weapon, and phone the police. So with that said, I can understand some men's feeling about wanting to feel like their wives and children are safe because the dog is there.


 
very well said and i can relate. Living in apartments that were shady when i first moved out and then we moved out to NC we had some issues with people messing around in our yard, tapping on windows and a couple times trying to get in the house. They knew it was just myself and my daughter and my husband. They werent aware we had the dogs. One of the nights this happened, my husband had already been gone for training for a week. There were 3 houses on my street, plus one on the corner they were planning to tear down totaling 4 houses. My husband had been able to come home long enough to say hi, get some dinner and back to training where we wouldnt see him for another week. I had JUST put my daughter down for bed. She was 8 months old. I was watching a movie and enjoying a quiet night with Riley and Zena sleeping on the floor. Halfway through the movie, i heard tapping on my bedroom window. Riley and Zena were awake in seconds and heading to the bedroom. I checked on my daughter and made sure she was okay. Next thing i know, the dogs are at the backdoor, barking and growling like nothing i've heard from them before. The doorknob was wiggling despite the dogs barking. Pulled my cell out of my pocket, called the police and they were there in 2 minutes. They found a screw driver wedged in the door by the handle. I was terrified. Cops werent surprised when i answered the door holding a bat in one hand and restraining a VERY angry Zena. Absolutely terrifying night for me. Happened again when my husband was home. I was very thankful i had the dogs there. When they started throwing a fit at the backdoor that night, they musta scared the person so bad, they just took off leaving everything behind. I'd hate to think what may have happened without the dogs there to alert and scare the tar outta someone trying to get in.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I understand someone wanting German Shepherds for protection, I know I do, now I am not talking about ripping someones throat out, but I do expect a
visual deterrant at the least. I live alone in a very rural area, it's very dark here at night with no street lights. I have 3 German Shepherds and rest easy knowing they are my first line of defense. I don't even lock my doors, I figure
anyone stupid enough to climb into my yard with my dogs barking at them deserves what they get, my dogs are great with people as long as I am in the yard, if not, they become like the hounds of the Baskervilles.


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

Tihannah said:


> When we first moved into our home, I was up late one night, and the DH and kids were sleeping. I stepped out onto my back patio to smoke a cigarette. * My home is the last house on a dead end road and basically surrounded by woods, and my backyard is fenced in with gates on each side.* As I went to light my cigarette, I heard a noise to my left. As I turned, I saw the back of a man's jacket dart around the side of my house (still in my backyard). He had been standing about 8 feet from me when I stepped out. If he had decided to grab me, I wouldn't have had time to react, and my husband would've never woke up. For months I was terrified to go outside at night. Would just smoke in my garage. The DH said either I get a gun or a big dog. I have children, and the thought of one of them accidentally getting a hold of a gun and hurting themselves is unthinkable.


Sounds like a scary place to live at night. You should install some security system coupled with some flood lights or something.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Tihannah said:


> I'm a woman, and I have to admit that I feel a whole lot safer having my GSD's around. I'm not helpless, but I also don't know how well I would fair against a 200lb man. Kaiya probably wouldn't hurt a fly, but I think someone contemplating coming into my home to harm me might think twice because she's here.
> 
> When we first moved into our home, I was up late one night, and the DH and kids were sleeping. I stepped out onto my back patio to smoke a cigarette. My home is the last house on a dead end road and basically surrounded by woods, and my backyard is fenced in with gates on each side. As I went to light my cigarette, I heard a noise to my left. As I turned, I saw the back of a man's jacket dart around the side of my house (still in my backyard). He had been standing about 8 feet from me when I stepped out. If he had decided to grab me, I wouldn't have had time to react, and my husband would've never woke up. For months I was terrified to go outside at night. Would just smoke in my garage. The DH said either I get a gun or a big dog. I have children, and the thought of one of them accidentally getting a hold of a gun and hurting themselves is unthinkable.
> 
> Now when I go outside at night, I let Kaiya out first. She runs out and circles the yard. If there was someone out there, I'd know it. I don't expect her to attack, but I do expect her to alert me. This would give me time to get in the house, arm myself with a weapon, and phone the police. So with that said, I can understand some men's feeling about wanting to feel like their wives and children are safe because the dog is there.


I agree. I do feel safer when I have my dogs with me to alert, I don't expect them to attack or anything. Just walking them sends people walking the other direction. They can alert me if anything or anybody suspicious is near or out and about and I can go take the necessary actions to protect me, my family and my dogs.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

BGSD said:


> Sounds like a scary place to live at night. You should install some security system coupled with some flood lights or something.


I actually loved it for just that fact when we first moved in because of the privacy. I could sit out on my back porch in my nightgown and feel comfy knowing that no one could see me. We have motion detectors in the front of the house and flood lights in the back, and have since installed a security system. But whoever this person was, absolutely ruined my sanctuary. My neighbors aren't far, but the trees make it so you can't see our house till you actually pull in front of it. My husband is deploying to Germany for 6 months tomorrow and as soon as school lets out, the kids will be off to grandparents for the summer so I will be completely alone. Don't think I would feel comfortable staying without the dogs here...


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Sorry, I'm gonna have a different perspective. 

Josh is military and leaves a LOT and he wants a dog that can protect us. HOWEVER, he knows I am trained to shoot our firearm, we have a security system, and trust me I am NOT afraid to shoot to kill if your in my house, however, when you have a large dog, barking their head off, it will sure as **** DETER anybody from WANTING to enter the house in the first place. You know what, I say they can't turn your own dog against you, but, they can turn your own gun against you. Dogs are great for many reasons for home security.


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## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

I notice a couple of women are proud to say they are proud their dog protects them, so I wanted to be one of the first men to say it. With my baby Eva we are already training her to have a strong sense of pack to my girlfriend (whom i hope will be more down the road). More than Eva protecting a woman though I feel confident knowing she will have my back one day. She might be just a pup now, but I can see that tie to protect me already in her.

Whether we are male or female, living in a bad neighborhood or in beautiful suburbs I think its a powerful emotion knowing your dog would give its life to protect you and your family. I'm decent with a gun, and training to go into law enforcement, but ill say this...ill trust a well trained dog over a bullet any day.

So Kudo's to all the great dogs of all breeds willing to lay down their lives for their human pack:thumbup:


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

Emoore said:


> I keep seeing people (presumably men) saying that they want a dog to protect their wife and kids while they're away. They *look for signs that their dog is protective enough to trust with the responsibility of defending the home and family*.


I'm pretty sure the OP was not referring to dogs being a visual and aural deterrent when she said "protective." There are numerous posts on this forum asking about how to assess if a dog (or puppy!) will actually protect against/engage/attack an intruder. No one would come on here asking how to determine if the dog is going to "protect" by barking and looking intimidating. Almost any large dog can do that.


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## webzpinner (Mar 7, 2011)

Virginia said:


> I'm pretty sure the OP was not referring to dogs being a visual and aural deterrent when she said "protective." There are numerous posts on this forum asking about how to assess if a dog (or puppy!) will actually protect against/engage/attack an intruder. No one would come on here asking how to determine if the dog is going to "protect" by barking and looking intimidating. Almost any large dog can do that.


That's the ONLY thing Jakey is good for, defender-wise, is barking and looking intimidating. He's a snugglebug, which is far more useful.... but he does make a great psychological defense. Even little kids in the neighborhood know that we are the home with the scary wolf. Every little bit counts.


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## timmster (Jan 26, 2011)

I love German Shepherds. It's also a fact that most people have believe gsds are vicious/dangerous/my what big teeth you have. So for me, the fact they are a deterrent is a +1. I know that my dog is perfectly safe, but as long as others don't know that, he'll be a useful deterrent. But that's all he's useful for. as for protection, i've got a whole list of other things.

It's also really funny to watch little kids run up to the big scary dog and give him a big hug and have the parents drag their kids away in fear before i would explain how safe he is and how if he really wanted, he probably could of snapped the kids arm in 3 seconds flat


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

timmster said:


> I love German Shepherds. It's also a fact that most people have believe gsds are vicious/dangerous/my what big teeth you have. So for me, the fact they are a deterrent is a +1. I know that my dog is perfectly safe, but as long as others don't know that, he'll be a useful deterrent. But that's all he's useful for. as for protection, i've got a whole list of other things.
> 
> It's also really funny to watch little kids run up to the big scary dog and give him a big hug and have the parents drag their kids away in fear before i would explain how safe he is and how if he really wanted, he probably could of snapped the kids arm in 3 seconds flat


 
exactly. mine look big and scary, even Shasta. Everyone around here though has seen her grow from when she was 12 weeks old. They're cool with her. not many have seen Riley so when they see me walking this big black dog they're not as anxious to stay in my way. I'll actually be kinda happy to go some place people DONT know them lol. Kids are perfectly fine as long as they're nice about it.


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## AuberryShortcake (Mar 9, 2010)

As a woman, I will admit that a dog with a strong reputation that commands respect is a comfort to have around, since it is a deterent to small time baddies. But, the dog is the alert system, she barks and tells me something is amiss, I take care of the rest. (Well, a normal dog would bark and tell me something is amiss, with my Lab Heaven love her, I would know something is amiss if I hear her jumping for joy in the middle of the night,LOL.) How would I fair against a 200 lb man? Not well if he was already there, but with warning me and my firewarm of choice would fair quite well. I can be one mean mamma bear...


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I didn't get my GSD for him to protect me. 

I got him to make me feel more safe though, people are scared of him just by looking at him and I love that. Yes, he is extremely friendly but where I live, you do not want anyone to know that.

He is there to be a deterrent, he is there to be an alarm and a warning system.

But if someone ever broke into my home, I would definitly protect him. I would come out swinging my aluminum bat that I keep next to my bed. I would suddenly become a karate master, I'd kung pow their butt.









I may be a woman, but I am a fighter and I'm not weak, you dont want to mess with my babies!









You dont want to see me get crazy!


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

You mean most guys dont really have a wife to protect their dogs?

I pity anyone who tries to get past my dogs because my wife would tear them up if they did anything that might have hurt the dogs.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I think what I'm trying to say here is that there are things that people are better at than dogs, and there are things that dogs are better at than people. But I can't think of anything that a man is better at than a dog, but a dog is better at than a woman. Except maybe peeing outdoors. And scratching.


Hmmmm, I guess there is a not-so-hidden message there. I am pretty sure this is the GSD forum, not the Man-Hating Forum.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Virginia said:


> *I'm pretty sure the OP was not referring to dogs being a visual and aural deterrent when she said "protective."* There are numerous posts on this forum asking about how to assess if a dog (or puppy!) will actually protect against/engage/attack an intruder. No one would come on here asking how to determine if the dog is going to "protect" by barking and looking intimidating. Almost any large dog can do that.


I agree. I thought Emoore meant protection as in will attack and not just a visual (or audible) deterrent. 

My dogs are a visual deterrent and it was a small consideration when I got them but not my primary reason for having them. They are first and foremost my companions. Am I ok that people see me walking two German Shepherds and comment how no one will mess with me? Yes. Am I glad that people know where we live and have seen them in the front window? Yes. Am I also glad that we can stop and say hello to the neighborhood kids when they ask to pet the dog? Heck Yes. 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have a dog that will protect you *IF* you have a dog with the nerve and temperament along with the training (for both you and the dog) to be able to do so. A dog that goes off on any person that is on their property or that approaches their owner probably doesn't have the nerve to actually engage should they be really threatened. Sure they'll probably scare a few people off and perpetuate that GSDs are mean stereotype but actually protect you? :shrug:


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## stacey_eight (Sep 20, 2010)

When I had a security system installed in our last house the man told me that the #1 deterrent to a ciminal would be a large dog, #2 is a security system (with signs displayed). Not sure if that's true or just a sales technique. 

I consider Zeke a fuzzy, snuggly alarm system. My husband travels a bunch and Zeke'd sure as heck let me know if something was out of the ordinary, and hopefully it would give me enough time to prepare to defend my kids, home and _*dog*_.

That being said, as a former Marine and trained boxer... you don't want none of this anyway! :smirk:


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

RazinKain said:


> I almost get the impression this thread is directed at me and my earlier thread.


This rant has been building for a LOOONG time. Yours is just the one that triggered it. 




Texas_Eva said:


> So Kudo's to all the great dogs of all breeds willing to lay down their lives for their human pack:thumbup:


I lost a beloved dog recently. He was very young and it was sudden, completely unexpected, and accidental. I went through a deep depression and seriously contemplated suicide. If it hadn't been for my husband and other dog I might have done it. I don't even want to _think_ about one of my dogs dying to protect me when I could have protected myself. Maybe your situation is different. I'm sure if I had children I would want the dog to give its life for the kids, but my dogs are my kids. 




Virginia said:


> I'm pretty sure the OP was not referring to dogs being a visual and aural deterrent when she said "protective." There are numerous posts on this forum asking about how to assess if a dog (or puppy!) will actually protect against/engage/attack an intruder. No one would come on here asking how to determine if the dog is going to "protect" by barking and looking intimidating. Almost any large dog can do that.


Thanks Virginia, that's exactly what i was referring to.



PaddyD said:


> Hmmmm, I guess there is a not-so-hidden message there. I am pretty sure this is the GSD forum, not the Man-Hating Forum.


 I knew somebody would see it that way. I am happily married. I'm not a man hater. Do you disagree with me Paddy? Do you think there are lots of situations where a man is better than a dog but a dog is better than a woman? 

Don't get me wrong. I don't have any problem with having a dog as an alarm barker and deterrent. It's a fabulous first line of defense. It's just this attitude that I've seen a lot of "Whew, I sure am glad I have a dog to leave in charge when I'm not around to protect my wife."


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I think guns are more trouble then they are worth if you're not comfortable with them. I never tell someone to buy a gun for protection unless it's an idea they already have in their mind. Just like dogs, they give people a false sense of security, but the bottom line is that most gun owners can't even practice correct gun safety at an outdoor firing range yet along properly use it in a high stress situation.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

GSDElsa said:


> I think guns are more trouble then they are worth if you're not comfortable with them. I never tell someone to buy a gun for protection unless it's an idea they already have in their mind. Just like dogs, they give people a false sense of security, but the bottom line is that most gun owners can't even practice correct gun safety at an outdoor firing range yet along properly use it in a high stress situation.


Very true. I got my first gun at 9 years and have had once since. People should get what they're comfortable with. If you want a trained PPD by all means go for that.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I find it interesting when people post stuff like that as well. Not nessisarily offensive, but just interesting. I'm a single girl, soon to be living on her own. I'm not particularly big at 5'7" and 120lbs. However, when I was looking for a dog, I didn't really have protection qualities in mind. I'm not really sure that Sasha would do well with personal protection training or anything like that. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that Sasha would protect me if need be, but really most of the time just her presence is enough to deter people. For instance, yesterday we went for a walk and we came across some....interesting...men. One of them hollered something at me (I have no clue what it was) and started to walk toward me. I got a little nervous and Sasha turned and looked at them. They stopped, and we kept walking. She didn't have to bark or growl, or anything. She just looked, and that was enough. Am I glad she's moving with me? Yeah, I feel safer. However, I would never put her in a situation where her life could be at stake, just to save mine.


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## MarleyGSD (Sep 29, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> I would suddenly become a karate master, I'd kung pow their butt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL! Well put! 

I agree. I would want my dog to alarm me and let me know something wasn't right, someone is trying to break in....but if they succeed in getting in the house, well that's going to be ALL ME defending my dog and myself.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

*If* you are going to get a gun......a 12 gauge shotgun would be the gun I would have.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

At least none of you have a roommate with a 98lb overweight GSD that he thinks will have a meal out of anyone that enters the house of no invite. I should take pictures of this GSD for all of you to see what I'm talking about. 

I think I'd have a better chance protecting myself and Titon than this GSD doing anything. He's (roommate's GSD) is a strong barker/alerter but beyond that, would probably lay his overweight *** under the table and stare.

Sorry, I'm ranting too because this is all I hear about day and night with my roommate knowing I do Schutzhund with Titon and he thinks his GSD needs to do it too when his dog can't even run that fast. This is also an owner that FREE feeds with Royal Canin and had the balls to tell me that I should just let Titon free feed off this same food since his food is SPECIFIC for GSDs. 

Oh and Titon is too thin (77lbs) to be a purebred German Shepherd. *rolleyes*

Rant over.


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## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Very true. I got my first gun at 9 years and have had once since. People should get what they're comfortable with. If you want a trained PPD by all means go for that.


Yeah 9-year-olds with guns is just such a great idea...so much better than people getting a dog for protection. Nice Rant.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

TechieDog said:


> Yeah 9-year-olds with guns is just such a great idea...so much better than people getting a dog for protection. Nice Rant.


I grew up hunting with my dad and got my own rifle for Christmas. It's not like it was kept loaded in my room or anything.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

kiwilrdg said:


> You mean most guys dont really have a wife to protect their dogs?
> 
> I pity anyone who tries to get past my dogs because my wife would tear them up if they did anything that might have hurt the dogs.


Haha that's what my husband says! I don't need a firearm, I have the face of a killer lol ( so he says when I am mad)
I know hand to hand combat. I could take on most men but if someone caught me off guard then anyone could take anyone down. Dogs are good alerts. 
I think the OP was saying we need to shed the weak, helpless female label.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

I actually do know someone who thinks that way. He's sort of a "Barney Fife" kind of character. He's the sort you can't tell anything new to, you just nod your head and smile, like a bobbel head when he talks.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i shed that helpless female label a LONG time ago. Little boy was picking on me and hitting me hard enough to leave bruises. I was 4 the boy was 8. cried about it to my mom and my aunt and my they told me to fight back. Boy hit me again and next thing my aunt and mom knew, i was beating the stuffing out of that kid. never took any crud from anyone since!


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> i shed that helpless female label a LONG time ago. Little boy was picking on me and hitting me hard enough to leave bruises. I was 4 the boy was 8. cried about it to my mom and my aunt and my they told me to fight back. Boy hit me again and next thing my aunt and mom knew, i was beating the stuffing out of that kid. never took any crud from anyone since!


Haha yea me too! I have boys and I kick the .... Out of them still at 18/21.
My step son says I am more like one of the guys but with long hair
I've been weight lifting since junior high and can keep up with men pretty easy except in pull ups , I suck at those.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Davey Benson said:


> I actually do know someone who thinks that way. He's sort of a "Barney Fife" kind of character. He's the sort you can't tell anything new to, you just nod your head and smile, like a bobbel head when he talks.


That is an EXACT label for this guy...


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## s14roller (Nov 18, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Don't get me wrong. I don't have any problem with having a dog as an alarm barker and deterrent. It's a fabulous first line of defense. It's just this attitude that I've seen a lot of "Whew, I sure am glad I have a dog to leave in charge when I'm not around to protect my wife."


Just IMO, but the rant seems to be more based on a deeper emotion dwelling in you. It then comes out and over-compensates to language that starts a thread similar to this. Just my 2 cents and I hope it doesnt get taken the wrong way...

On the most basic level, there's no reason why a man SHOULDNT feel safer having a GSD or any other large dog at home to give an extra blanket of safety to his family (in this case as previously mentioned, just a visual blanket). It sounds like you're taking it one step further and making the assumption that he thinks the dog is more capable than his gf/wife/etc. If you want to take the man vs. woman debate 1 step further from my last statement, then surely you must know that men typically don't think as much as women do! If it makes sense, then it works. Done. With that said, if it seems safer, then it must be. This is regardless of your capabilities for self-defence, etc. If the title of the thread was "Rant - ADT to protect my family" would you think your husband thought some electronic circuits was better than his wife? I would hope not!

If I had a wife at home alone who was a 3rd degree black-belt along with my child, and I had to be away for a week, I'd feel better knowing my GSD was home as well (even if I assumed my wife could kick my butt). On the same token, "I" also feel better with a large dog at home...so does that mean my GSD is the top dog (no pun intended) at my house? Does that make me beta? No, but it's human nature to want to feel protected. Men are socially bought up to also want to provide safety to loved ones...but that doesn't mean we think any less of our counterparts. Male/female it doesn't matter, we all want to protect our loved ones if we can. Add a guard dog, add a security system, whatever, it's all the same notion. 

Just my 2 cents


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

krystyne73 said:


> Haha yea me too! I have boys and I kick the .... Out of them still at 18/21.
> My step son says I am more like one of the guys but with long hair
> I've been weight lifting since junior high and can keep up with men pretty easy except in pull ups , I suck at those.


 
i've never been able to do pullups. I need to get back into exercising beyond what i do which is walk around the block a few times and run around the house doing chores. I can kick some serious butt though!


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

We just did a 6 mile hike up a mountain. Lots of fun, 8% incline did good for the legs.
I am fighting old age like a boxer in the ring lol


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I am happily married. I'm not a man hater. Do you disagree with me Paddy? Do you think there are lots of situations where a man is better than a dog but a dog is better than a woman?


I only go by what I read. Today is my day off and I am vacuuming, washing floors, going to the dump, making the bed, cleaning up the yard and walking the dog...... and it's not even noon yet. I should have taken a rant as a rant.

I think dogs are much better at peeing outside than men. As for women peeing outside, my wife and I used to run on trails in the woods and she out-peed me 2 to 1. A dog is often better than a man at defending especially when the dog is good at it and the man is half the size of who he is defending against. Dogs generally don't pause to take into account the possible outcome. So I think there are situations where any one of the 3 is better than the other two... depends on the situation. opcorn:


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

krystyne73 said:


> We just did a 6 mile hike up a mountain. Lots of fun, 8% incline did good for the legs.
> I am fighting old age like a boxer in the ring lol


 
LOL! i could do the hike mainly because i was push myself until i literally fall over and cant go any further (always been that stubborn). I'm a survivor! haha. a paranoid survivor but still lol. i may only be 24 but i'm so broken. Bad knee. Bad wrist. Bad ankle. My back is horrible. basically my entire right side just hates me lol.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

krystyne73 said:


> We just did a 6 mile hike up a mountain. Lots of fun, 8% incline did good for the legs.
> I am fighting old age like a boxer in the ring lol


So, it must have been 6 miles down, too? 

I am fighting old age too but old age is winning.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

s14roller said:


> Just IMO, but the rant seems to be more based on a deeper emotion dwelling in you. It then comes out and over-compensates to language that starts a thread similar to this. Just my 2 cents and I hope it doesnt get taken the wrong way...
> 
> On the most basic level, there's no reason why a man SHOULDNT feel safer having a GSD or any other large dog at home to give an extra blanket of safety to his family (in this case as previously mentioned, just a visual blanket). It sounds like you're taking it one step further and making the assumption that he thinks the dog is more capable than his gf/wife/etc. If you want to take the man vs. woman debate 1 step further from my last statement, then surely you must know that men typically don't think as much as women do! If it makes sense, then it works. Done. With that said, if it seems safer, then it must be. This is regardless of your capabilities for self-defence, etc. If the title of the thread was "Rant - ADT to protect my family" would you think your husband thought some electronic circuits was better than his wife? I would hope not!
> 
> ...


I applaud you good sir! :toasting:


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

s14roller said:


> It sounds like you're taking it one step further and making the assumption that he thinks the dog is more capable than his gf/wife/etc.


I'm responding to specific wording I've seen several times: "I want a dog to protect my wife while I'm away." I really don't see how else you can read that besides the dog being a stand-in for the protective husband. 

I don't have a problem with a dog as a visual deterrent, or a dog as an extra layer in your home security plan, or even a PPD to protect the entire family if that's what floats your boat. I have a problem with "A dog to protect my wife when I'm not around."


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Well, now, little lady, don't you worry yer purty little head off bout this kind of thing.


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## TriadGSD (Feb 19, 2011)

people always says "the intruder can shoot the dog". well, the intruder can shoot ME too.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

My schutzhund club is probably majority female (i'm almost certain), and our president is female. I don't think you should presume it is men who want protection/protective dogs


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

TriadGSD said:


> people always says "the intruder can shoot the dog". well, the intruder can shoot ME too.


 
true. i can bite an intruder but the dogs bite would be more effective.... not trying to start anything just following my train of thought lol.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

hunterisgreat said:


> I'd say my schutzhund club is probably majority female. I don't think you should presume it is men who want protection/protective dogs


Again, I'm not presuming anything. I'm responding to specific wording I've seen multiple times over the years on this forum.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Emoore said:


> I have a problem with "A dog to protect my wife when I'm not around."


Do you have a problem with the men thinking the women need someone to protect them?

Who do they think is protecting all the single women out there?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> Do you have a problem with the men thinking the women need someone to protect them?
> 
> Who do they think is protecting all the single women out there?


All the single ladies, all the single ladies, all the single ladies. all the single ladies, now put your hands up!

Oh, oh, oh.

I couldn't resist.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Emoore said:


> I'm responding to specific wording I've seen several times: "I want a dog to protect my wife while I'm away." I really don't see how else you can read that besides the dog being a stand-in for the protective husband.
> 
> I don't have a problem with a dog as a visual deterrent, or a dog as an extra layer in your home security plan, or even a PPD to protect the entire family if that's what floats your boat. I have a problem with "A dog to protect my wife when I'm not around."



I think, what he was getting at, and something I agree with, is that you are looking at that statement from your own POV. There is nothing wrong with that, I wouldn't doubt that there are people who do feel the way that you think, however, and dare I stroke with a broad brush...on average, with men, (now not all of them of course!) the statement is just that, it ends there, were as women, again not all, tend to "overthink" the statement.


Man: "I want a dog to protect my family when I'm gone" thats it..really, there nothing past that other than his one security that they are safe.

Woman: "My husband wants a dog here to protect me, obvisouly he thinks im some helpless creature that cannot take care of myself..." and for most women this can be a spiral if they arent careful and lead to other thoughts that are, again over thought...

Man: "Wait, what? I just wanted a dog at home with you! "

Basically, my bet would be that alot of the time, there is nothing more to the statement then what the statement is. I don't think that makes your rant any less valid in some cases...but try not to overthink things.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

LaRen616 said:


> All the single ladies, all the single ladies, all the single ladies. all the single ladies, now put your hands up!
> 
> Oh, oh, oh.
> 
> I couldn't resist.


Now that song is stuck in my head!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

GSDolch said:


> I think, what he was getting at, and something I agree with, is that you are looking at that statement from your own POV. There is nothing wrong with that, I wouldn't doubt that there are people who do feel the way that you think, however, and dare I stroke with a broad brush...on average, with men, (now not all of them of course!) the statement is just that, it ends there, were as women, again not all, tend to "overthink" the statement.
> 
> 
> Man: "I want a dog to protect my family when I'm gone" thats it..really, there nothing past that other than his one security that they are safe.
> ...



It's like that Dave Barry article she says, "Dave, do you realize we've been seeing each other for three months now?"

And Dave thinks, "Whoa. Three months. I need to change my oil!:

And the woman is thinking, "Is this relationship moving too fast? How does he feel about me? Am I too clingy?"

And Dave is thinking ". . . . maybe I'll swing by Napa after I drop her off. I hear they're having an oil change special."

And she's thinking, "Do I want to spend the rest of my life with this man? Do I want him to be the father of my children?"

And he's thinking, "if I go by Napa today, will I make it home in time for kickoff?"


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Emoore said:


> It's like that Dave Barry article she says, "Dave, do you realize we've been seeing each other for three months now?"
> 
> And Dave thinks, "Whoa. Three months. I need to change my oil!:
> 
> ...


hahahahahahahahaha

:rofl:


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Emoore said:


> It's like that Dave Barry article she says, "Dave, do you realize we've been seeing each other for three months now?"
> 
> And Dave thinks, "Whoa. Three months. I need to change my oil!:
> 
> ...



:thumbup::laugh:


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## Scleropages (Jan 24, 2011)

As a man who wants his GSD to protect his wife, I have a few things to say here:

I am all for women's rights and equality in society/workplace/whatever. I don't think my wife is completely helpless, but I know she doesn't stand a chance in a fight against a well prepared intruder (whether he is armed or not). 

There's a phenomenon that takes place all across the animal kingdom called sexual dimorphism (the physical difference between sexes) and as such, my wife needs an equalizer. If you haven't heard about this, or just noticed it in your daily life please take the time:
Sexual dimorphism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sex differences in humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have had a gun in the house since I have been married and I have taught my wife how to use it. I still worry, though, as any good husband does, and it makes me feel much better to know that there is someone else (my dog) in the house (even when I'm home) to protect against intruders. A guy with a knife/bat/other melee weapon doesn't have the best chances against a full-grown, enraged GSD and is going to have a heck of a time trying to shoot the same dog even if he has a gun. For those of you who don't shoot often, it's not as easy to shoot a fast moving black target in the dark as the movies portray.

Basically, what it boils down to is this:
It's going to take the police at least 5 minutes to get to my house.
It's going to take my wife at least 10 seconds to get her gun and get it ready.
It's going to take my dog less than five seconds to get to the intruder and his weapon (teeth) are always ready. In a home invasion, every second counts.

I've read some things in this thread about women using aluminum baseball bats and bb/pellet guns to ward off intruders. Please, ladies, discontinue this line of thinking. Get a gun, get a PPD, or both. Even if you think you can take one guy, you can't take two, and I GUARANTEE that unless your dog is afraid to attack, he/she will do better than you.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Scleropages said:


> I've read some things in this thread about women using aluminum baseball bats and bb/pellet guns to ward off intruders. Please, ladies, discontinue this line of thinking. Get a gun, get a PPD, or both. Even if you think you can take one guy, you can't take two, and I GUARANTEE that unless your dog is afraid to attack, he/she will do better than you.


I do not feel comfortable with guns in my house. I do not like them, I am scared of them and I panic when I see one. 

If I had a gun in my hand I would probably shoot myself.

My cousin lives with me, her bedroom is on the other side of the house. She also has a aluminum bat. I dont care if there are 6 men in my house, her and I are coming out swinging and if Sinister decides to take a chunk out of one of them then so be it. (I 100% believe that Sinister would protect me. He has showed it, but I do not rely on him, I would rather get harmed then have him get harmed.)


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Scleropages said:


> Basically, what it boils down to is this:
> It's going to take the police at least 5 minutes to get to my house.
> It's going to take my wife at least 10 seconds to get her gun and get it ready.
> It's going to take my dog less than five seconds to get to the intruder and his weapon (teeth) are always ready. In a home invasion, every second counts


But the same thing could be said about you. Do you, sound asleep in your boxers, have much of a chance against an armed intruder (or two or three)? 



Scleropages said:


> Even if you think you can take one guy, you can't take two,


I _don't_ think I can take one guy, unarmed and in my nightgown, let alone two. And most guys, unarmed and in their boxers and lying flat on their backs in bed, can't take a home invader who is prepared, awake, and probably armed. I highly value my dog's ability to give me a little advance warning to grab my shotgun. 

I'm just saying, when it comes to home defense, it's not a case of man>dog>woman. It's more a case of we're all a team.


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## valreegrl (Nov 11, 2009)

We relate to the dogs when it pertains to protection as "time". They will give us "time" to react in any situation. Are they capable of taking out an intruder, probably not. 

My first dog was given to me by my parents to take to the barn with me in the evenings. They were concerned that I was alone without any "protection". What's funny is, they gave me a Lab  Did they expect he would attack, NO. But he would notify me if anyone was around and give me "time" to react. 
Our GSDs came to us because of our home situation with the kids. We live in a rancher, one floor, and our bedrooms are at ground level. I worried every night that someone would get into their bedroom and I wouldn't hear anything. Now there is always a dog laying in or near their room which gives me some sense of peace. Often times they will call one of them in during the night as a security blanket


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

A PPD is not exactly the family pet nervebag that barks at everything.....And most people simply do not need to maintain a PPD not do they have the skillset to do so and it becomes a tremedous liability. 

Many people can't even take their dog for a walk and not have it bark at other dogs let alone maintain a specially trained bite dog, nor do they know the difference between a dog that will engage and one that is all show.

Dogs are great alarm systems and deterrents. The more the merrier I say!


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Scleropages said:


> I GUARANTEE that unless your dog is afraid to attack, he/she will do better than you.


I think this is where the problem with the average Joe's thinking is and Jocoyn said it well in her quote below. 



> Many people can't even take their dog for a walk and not have it bark at other dogs let alone maintain a specially trained bite dog, nor do they know the difference between a dog that will engage and one that is all show.


The average dog owner would love to believe their GSD is going to take down a burglar but they haven't spent time training their dog to do that. Just because your dog barks at everyone that trespasses on your property does not mean they will actually engage a real threat.


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## Scleropages (Jan 24, 2011)

Emoore said:


> But the same thing could be said about you. Do you, sound asleep in your boxers, have much of a chance against an armed intruder (or two or three)?


Asleep, I don't have much of a chance at all. Awake, I am one arm-length away from a loaded gun and enough ammo to shoot a whole bus load of intruders. So right now, all my dog has to do is bark one time and I am ready.

In the situation where someone kicks the back door open (wouldn't be that difficult in this old house) while we are awake, I do have a better chance than my wife. I weigh 50% more than she does, I'm at least twice as strong, I'm faster, and I'm way more aware of my surroundings. I feel like I could defend myself or avoid the attacker long enough to get to my gun if it wasn't on my hip. I don't know if my wife could do the same. I don't like uncertainty, so I got some four-legged insurance.

Also, to LaRen616, your view of firearms is very narrow-minded. Are you afraid when you see a police officer? Guns are only tools and the only danger lies in the user of the tool. Cars kill far more people than guns, but I assume you drive a car regularly. Not to sound patronizing, but I strongly recommend that every single woman have a firearm for personal protection. You should find a person that you are comfortable with and respect that knows about firearms and talk to them about it.


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## s14roller (Nov 18, 2010)

Emoore said:


> It's like that Dave Barry article she says, "Dave, do you realize we've been seeing each other for three months now?"
> 
> And Dave thinks, "Whoa. Three months. I need to change my oil!:
> 
> ...


This post is exactly what I mean...my attention span lost it after the first sentence...because men try to keep it simple. It's face value and that's it...your example states the 3 month statement triggered the oil change thought. The "GSD protects my wife" example states I'm away, it's good I have a GSD at home. Period. 

"I want a GSD to be home to protect my wife and kids while I'm away" is just that. If I had a 18 y/o son at home, I'd still like a GSD at home...I mean, why WOULDN'T you want as many layers of protection as possible??  It's my FAMILY...the most precious thing to me...I will do what I can to ensure it's there when I get back. 

If I told my wife to make sure she turns on the alarm system at night while I am away, would that also be taken the wrong way? Maybe she should spite me and leave it off and just sleep with a baseball bat to prove she can defend herself? You think you and all your guns/training will protect you when a group of professional thieves who are OK with more than just stealing, ambush you at home while you are sleeping? I rather have my wife leave me a GSD as even a 10% deterent when she is gone, just like she would prefer to have a GSD when I am gone. :hug:

Bottom line is neither men nor women are going to be safe in an unfortunate situation like the ones we are talking about. It has nothing to do with men thinking dogs can protect women and we don't need any protecting ourselves. You think men aren't going to be shaking in their boots when a masked gunman shows up at the front door????


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Scleropages said:


> Also, to LaRen616, your view of firearms is very narrow-minded. Are you afraid when you see a police officer? Guns are only tools and the only danger lies in the user of the tool. Cars kill far more people than guns, but I assume you drive a car regularly. Not to sound patronizing, but I strongly recommend that every single woman have a firearm for personal protection. You should find a person that you are comfortable with and respect that knows about firearms and talk to them about it.


I am friends with a female police officer, she let me pick up her gun, I felt extremely uncomfortable with it and I went into panic mode. I dont know why they make me feel that way but they do and I will not have one in my house.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Can I just go on a little rant here? I keep seeing people (presumably men) saying that they want a dog to protect their wife and kids while they're away. They look for signs that their dog is protective enough to trust with the responsibility of defending the home and family.
> 
> Can I just say-- I'm really glad that in my household, I don't play third fiddle to an 80lb animal with no pre-frontal cortex when it comes to defending the home front.
> 
> ...


 
OK, my GF is 100 pounds. You cannot carry a firearm on the streets of Chicago (legally anyway). Why is it so bad to want a GSD at her side? Sorry she's not a kung -fu master. There are gangs on corners, crackheads wandering around swearing at themselves, but my GF should be able to take all them out on her own??? 

or lets say some gangbangers break in...they'll have guns, or at the very least knives. Why is it so bad to to have a protective dog not only as a deterrent, but also as a "weapon" if someone breaks into my home (which has already been broken into)

If I'm home it's a different story. trust me I can defense myself and family more than 99.99999% of the human race. to be calling out men like me who want my family to be safer when I'm gone is ludicris.

move to a place with crime and you might change your views.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

You know I don't think anyone is saying anything is wrong with having a GSD and a dog is a great deterrent.

I think people are trying to say not to lay unrealistic expectations on the family pet as your safety plan because odds are pretty good you may be disappointed in a pinch. 

Also, if you have a dog that is trained to bite you have a whole 'nother layer of responsibility in maintaining that dog and ensuring that an unfortunate accident does not occur.

Fence barkers? I pretty much systematically desensitized the ones in my neighborhood to me ... easy to do with some patience and food for most dogs.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

jocoyn said:


> You know I don't think anyone is saying anything is wrong with having a GSD and a dog is a great deterrent.
> 
> I think people are trying to say not to lay unrealistic expectations on the family pet as your safety plan because odds are pretty good you may be disappointed in a pinch.


I think this is true, but what a few are trying to state is that this statement:


> "I want a dog to protect my wife while I'm away."


in no way implies that a male thinks the dog will actually bite/attack an intruder. Any reading into that statement is pure extrapolation. I _know_ that my dog would not have the nerve to attack an intruder. But would I make that statement if I had a wife/family and was leaving town? Absolutely, because the statement taken at face value is 100% true- deterrents ARE protection.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> Fence barkers? I pretty much systematically desensitized the ones in my neighborhood to me ... easy to do with some patience and food for most dogs.


so you're feeding neighborhood dogs through the fence?


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## Dr. Teeth (Mar 10, 2011)

This an interesting enough rant that I'd like to chime in, because somewhere, sometime I think I said those very words, as a man who leaves town often. And maybe the OP directs the rant at a short circuit comment, where an uneducated dog owner thinks he's found the perfect alarm system without any work. I don't know. 

My whole family had a sense of peace when my protection trained GSD was with us. It was only after losing him a couple months ago that we all truly realized everything he gave us. Before, I didn't get out of bed if I forgot to check whether the door was locked at night. I didn't worry about who knocked on the door when my 13 yr old daughter was home alone. I slept better at night. The people in our neighborhood know my wife and daughter as the people with the GSD that you would never want to mess with. I liked that.

Hurting from our loss, I thought I would take many months getting back into the responsibility of a puppy/dog. It took exactly one week to realize I want that feeling back in our house and my wife completely agreed. 

We are city people, I live in an upper end, yuppie, urban enivronment. However, the street element is uncontrollable most days everything is fine, but vagrants, thiefs, addicts, gangbangers, felons, and vandals are part of the landscape outside our gate, no different than stop lights. It is a fact. My wife and I own many guns for sport, we are even allowed to carry concealed weapons, but they are no match for the type of protection a GSD ( probably the only breed I will ever own ) can offer a family, especially in the house.


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## mvarnell (Mar 31, 2010)

I bought my GSD specifically to take a bullet for me. I own a liquor store and if someone is going to rob me they are going to deal with him first. I hope and pray he is never hurt, but I got him understanding that if it came to it that he would be my protector. He is trained to react when anyone comes around the counter that isn't supposed to be there. At night when I am locking up I know that he has my back from the front door all the way to the car. I don't see what is wrong with having him as a protection dog. He is not a guard dog, he is a protection dog meaning his whole job is to make sure I am safe at all times. I don't go anywhere without him.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Scleropages said:


> Asleep, I don't have much of a chance at all. Awake, I am one arm-length away from a loaded gun and enough ammo to shoot a whole bus load of intruders. So right now, all my dog has to do is bark one time and I am ready.


Funny, me too. 



chicagojosh said:


> move to a place with crime and you might change your views.


Move to a place with more civilized gun laws and you might change your views. 

How does your 100lb girlfriend defend herself without you at a grocery store, restaurant, or other place that dogs aren't allowed? Not trying to start a fight here, I'd honestly like to know. My husband's job moves him around a lot and we're very clear on the fact that we won't move anywhere you can't get a concealed carry permit.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

My dog isn't protection trained, but I consider her a great visual aid. I'm alone two to three nights a week and have great relationships with my neighbors and having a GSD is just a fringe benefit. 

I understand that if someone broke into my house at night that I would call 911 first, then go to the neighbors (urban area, close by) and let my dog do her territorial bark. Who knows, they may even get grabbed by a big bossy bitch.

I also know some of the "thuggy" types in my neighborhood and they admit that although they have Pittys, GSDs scare the **** out of them.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I think alot of people see Rin Tin Tin movies and expect all GSDs to exactly what Rin Tin Tin does. Yes, that is one of the reasons most want a GSD is because Rin Tin Tin was awesome, but not all GSDs are going to act like him.

Alot of the people I went high school and people I go to college with think my dad is a cop because I have GSDs, and ask if they are trained Police dogs.


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## jkscandi50 (Nov 17, 2010)

No one even knocks on my door anymore - - I have 6 dogs - people always see us walking - and little or small - I truly believe dogs do act as a deterrent inside a home - I have from the iggy up to Kai (maybe around 75-80) lbs.- and I myself may be little - but i'm meaner than Cat S*** Hooligans better leave my dogs alone or ELSE!!! LOL


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

i got my dog for a pet and companion. my bf does work late nights sometimes until 230 or 3 in the morning and it is nice to have a companion in the house while he is gone. is she going to protect me? no, probably not. she is a fear barker and if someone entered, she would bark and pry back away. however, i hope that if it ever came down to someone actually trying to break in, the person has no clue about dogs and the person will mistake her fear for a very angry mean dog. is she mean and agressive? nope but they don't know that. she is more of an alarm system. i have a gun, a cell phone, and a temper. but its nice to have those big ears to hear at night. would i love for her to jump the person who breaks in and attack and save me? yes, i would. but that isnt realistic for us. some people will break in even with the sound of dogs, some wont. if its my time, its my time


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Funny, me too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Emoore, what crime goes on inside a grocery store? if that is your "come back" point it was pretty weak. The crimes happen on the streets or in the residences if we're talking home invasion.

Never heard of some one getting mugged in the Produce section???? LOL

hey, i wish we could carry, but we can't. so every Chicagoan is supposed to move to Texas?


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

*grin* I do think it's funny that if you walk up to my house, usually (90%) you only hear the little yap dog. The GSD is very quiet.

Surprise!


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

chicagojosh said:


> Emoore, what crime goes on inside a grocery store? if that is your "come back" point it was pretty weak. The crimes happen on the streets or in the residences if we're talking home invasion.


I know several people who have had their purse stolen in the grocery store. It's not uncommon to be mugged in the parking lot or unheard of to be grab and pulled into a van while loading groceries into the car. 

Crime doesn't only happen on the streets.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> I know several people who have had their purse stolen in the grocery store. It's not uncommon to be mugged in the parking lot or unheard of to be grab and pulled into a van while loading groceries into the car.
> 
> Crime doesn't only happen on the streets.


parking lot = street. and at that moment my GF would be vulnerable. you're main point to this thread is still ludicris. i'm sure the number of purse snatchings inside grocery stores is about 1 to 10000000000 on the street.

and if the purse is all they want fine. they won't be killing or beating someone in a grocery store. you have no better point to try and make?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

chicagojosh said:


> Emoore, what crime goes on inside a grocery store? if that is your "come back" point it was pretty weak. The crimes happen on the streets or in the residences if we're talking home invasion.


I thought people used the streets to go to places where they can't take dogs. 



chicagojosh said:


> hey, i wish we could carry, but we can't. so every Chicagoan is supposed to move to Texas?


Oh wait, please no. Forget I ever said anything. We have enough people moving here as it is.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

chicagojosh said:


> parking lot = street.


Well, that's a new definition. Maybe the dictionary hasn't been updated in a while.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Honestly, we live in the country. It's a safe area but things happen and with all the windows, weak construction, doors that can simply be pushed in, I feel MUCH safer with my dogs. Nobody should even dare to try to get through the door, it's not going to happen, and I am a female. 

I don't care what anyone thinks. This is a new country for me and the only reason I can sleep at night is because of my dogs.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

gsdraven...well, i'd say the parking lot sure resembles being on the street more than in the cereal isle. can we agree on that?

uh, yeah Emoore people use streets? did i miss something?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

chicagojosh said:


> uh, yeah Emoore people use streets? did i miss something?


 You said crime happens in the streets. I was pointing out that you don't always have your dog in the streets. You might be going someplace you can't take him. This is where it would be prudent to have a "plan B". Or even better, have a "plan A" that's not your dog. 

At the end of the day, if this thread encourages one family to review their safety or home defense plan so that the female learns to defend herself a little better in some way and operate as part of a team rather than hoping her dog will protect her. . . . my work is done here.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

emoore, my GF doesn't go anywhere without me or the dogs. mainly she only goes places with me. but what is so bad about me wanting a protection capable dog there to defend her if im not there (or if i get shot/stabbed 1st)?

i don't see why you have such an issue with this. we don't all live in texas, we can't all carry a 6 shooter


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## superdad88 (Mar 15, 2011)

Ok I didnt read all the post but I would like to say something. When I was married I was galde we had a GS. It made me feel better knowing that when she and my daughter were home alone that the GS was there. The GS would sleep in the hallway between our bed room and our daughters bedroom. When I see GS advertised as protection/family pets i always think about the deterant part as protection. Its the visual aspect of the breed thats the protection.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

chicagojosh said:


> emoore, my GF doesn't go anywhere without me or the dogs. mainly she only goes places with me. but what is so bad about me wanting a protection capable dog there to defend her if im not there (or if i get shot/stabbed 1st)?


Because what happens to her once the dog also gets shot and stabbed? 

I can't imagine, it must be terrifying, to always have to rely on someone outside yourself for your security. To not be able to leave the house without your big strong boyfriend or your big strong dog.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

and lastly, just because the GSD can't go into the grocery store that doesn't mean a thing. there are clearly places dogs can't go. But how does that rule out their protective value where they can go?


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Because what happens to her once the dog also gets shot and stabbed?
> 
> I can't imagine, it must be terrifying, to always have to rely on someone outside yourself for your security. To not be able to leave the house without your big strong boyfriend or your big strong dog.


im loosing you here.

ok, so someone breaks in. the 190 pound boyfriend gets shot, the dog gets shot. what do you expect the GF to do?


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## mvarnell (Mar 31, 2010)

In cities like Chicago you can order your groceries online. That would keep your from ever having to go to the store. Why can't people have their dog for the reason they want?


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> LOL! i could do the hike mainly because i was push myself until i literally fall over and cant go any further (always been that stubborn). I'm a survivor! haha. a paranoid survivor but still lol. i may only be 24 but i'm so broken. Bad knee. Bad wrist. Bad ankle. My back is horrible. basically my entire right side just hates me lol.


That sucks! I am 37 and can see old age staring at me! Haha
I plan on running a marathon to kick off my 40th! But I have Osteoporisis and some RA, I feel moving on helps reduce the pain. I refuse to submit! 

But I am glad this thread was started. Everyone should have a plan and go over possible scenarios in their home, car and office. It's helpful and smart to be prepared. With the economy this bad, the probabilty for break ins will increase.
If you aren't educated on how to handle an attack( defense courses) then no firearm, bat or dog is going to save you. Most cities offer these courses for very cheap!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

chicagojosh said:


> im loosing you here.
> 
> ok, so someone breaks in. the 190 pound boyfriend gets shot, the dog gets shot. what do you expect the GF to do?


Come on man. Of course the GF is going to be able to handle it. She's got her gun and her training... Duh...


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

chicagojosh said:


> so you're feeding neighborhood dogs through the fence?


When I lived in a neighborhood where there were several dogs whose owners never paid anymore attention to them than to let them bark incessantly, yes I did. They learned who I was and my 6am walks did not wake up the neighborhood. Not talking about people who would hear the dogs bark and turn on the lights here........

Any criminal with half a brain can make friends with most barky dogs..


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

mvarnell, i always go grocery shopping with her, so she won't have to worry about parking lot crimes. 

she doesn't go anywhere after dark without me. and she does carry mace on her key chain for when she's coming and going to work


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

wildo said:


> Come on man. Of course the GF is going to be able to handle it. She's got her gun and her training... Duh...


lol, oh yeah. what was i thinking?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

chicagojosh said:


> im loosing you here.
> 
> ok, so someone breaks in. the 190 pound boyfriend gets shot, the dog gets shot. what do you expect the GF to do?


Fight like ****. Make the bad guys pay for whatever they want in blood, with every last ounce of strength and skill you've got. Shoot 'em in the head. (since you're in your own home and that's still allowed in most places) Beat 'em with your aluminum baseball bat. Go out with a little self respect and dignity. Die with your boots on.


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## mvarnell (Mar 31, 2010)

ChicagoJosh, I was mainly trying to point out to Emoore that you can survive without parting from the dog. I agree with you.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Fight like ****. Make the bad guys pay for whatever they want in blood, with every last ounce of strength and skill you've got. Shoot 'em in the head. (since you're in your own home and that's still allowed in most places)* Beat 'em with your aluminum baseball bat. Go out with a little self respect and dignity.* Die with your boots on.


That would be me, swing like heck!


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

chicagojosh said:


> ok, so someone breaks in. the 190 pound boyfriend gets shot, the dog gets shot. what do you expect the GF to do?





wildo said:


> Come on man. Of course the GF is going to be able to handle it. She's got her gun and her training... Duh...


Why is it so ridiculous to expect women to be able to defend themselves? What would you expect your GF to do if for some reason both you and the dog got shot? Lay their helpless or fight with everything she's got?

I sure as heck know which one I would be doing. And it's just smart to make sure I have the right tools to defend myself whether that's a self defense class, a bat or a gun.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

_First let me start by saying that I believe its good for everyone to know how to defend themselves in case some physical situation arises. I'm not addressing a woman's ability to learn self defense but rather addressing the earlier issues I read about wanting your dog to protect your family and home._

I want my dog to protect my wife and kids when the situation arises, that doesn't mean I want him to be docile while I'm in the house because he knows I'm the tough man. I want my dog to protect my house period, My wife, my kids and myself. If my family and me are watching a movie or in bed where we may not hear an intruder attempting to enter, I want my dog to alert me to it, and possibly deter a criminal. If it escalated further I want my dog to attack and give us time to get to safety and call 911, or defend ourselves. This just naturally carries over to when I leave the house and leave my family home I still want my dog to be there to protect them.

The dog's presence is the first line of defense against an intruder, many times that is enough. The dogs protective actions are a second line of defense, and that also is a deterrent. This is incredibly valuable, and more than enough to stop a situation from going further south.

Not everyone believes in carrying a gun so I'm not going to address that here but as for anyone learning self defense as a deterrent.. please, I would rather my dog deter a criminal through barking, or attack a criminal potentially sending them fleeing or at least causing damage before they ever got close to my wife, kids or myself. Say someone was at your door about to break in and you shout "Stay back! I will defend myself and my family!" then you bare your fists, does that have the same impact as your canine Barking and growling, essentially saying the same thing, and baring their teeth? Say they are at the screen door and you charge them, shouting that you will punch them somewhere on their body if they come closer, is that more intimidating than your canine charging the door, their knife like teeth unsheathed in their mouth, warning them that if they step one foot in the house they will be torn into?

I totally do not understand the person who said they feel as they should be the one protecting their dogs from intruders not the other way around. If someone comes in and gets into a conflict with your dog, takes damage but kills your dog he may still flee wounded leaving your family safe albeit mournful over the loss of your brave, heroic companion. Or at least it may offer you the split seconds you need to get someone safe with the house. If someone comes in and you attempt to protect your family and your dogs and they kill you, well then they are probably going to do the same to your children, and if they get deterred after killing you still, who is going to take care of your children and spouse? Nobody should ever think their life, the life of a human being, the life that supports the life of others should be put at stake before the life of their dog. That's coming from a huge dog lover too.

Also man and woman's rights and equality has come a long way in the civilized world don't get me wrong but there is nothing civilized about crime. This is a real senario, there are criminals who will come to peoples doors posing as someone else. When a man answers the door they may leave, or if a woman answers the door with an intimidating GSD they may leave. But if a woman alone answers the door they may see an opportunity and feel they have the upper hand on a lone woman and attempt to do something terrible. I don't think that the scumbag looking to harm you is thinking "well shes a woman and women can do anything men can do now so I better leave". 

And I'm not saying that criminal will be any more successful attacking a woman; the woman can be perfectly capable of defending herself (more capable than many a man) and she may deliver some justice to the perp sending him fleeing but why let it get to the point where you are having to actually test your physical ability vs someone who might be trying to kill you? You have taken lots of time and resources into raising, supporting and protecting your dog from all sorts of things, why not let your dog return the favor and protect you?

That is why people say they "want a GSD to protect my family"


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

gsdraven said:


> Why is it so ridiculous to expect women to be able to defend themselves? What would you expect your GF to do if for some reason both you and the dog got shot? Lay their helpless or fight with everything she's got?


Haha... NOBODY said it was ridiculous. What was said is that this statement: "I want a dog to protect my wife while I'm away." has nothing to do with the woman's ability to defend herself. Such claims are beyond absurd. The woman's ability to defend herself has nothing to do with the man's desire to offer as much protection as possible, which might include having a large breed dog as a deterrent.

[EDIT] ...And getting pissed that a man made such a statement because it seems to undermine the woman's ability to defend herself is such a feminist/extremist perspective.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

wildo said:


> Haha... NOBODY said it was ridiculous.


If you weren't making a joke about a woman having training and gun, then why the eye roll? Certainly seems like you thought it was crazy that a woman would do those things to protect herself.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

wildo said:


> [EDIT] ...And getting pissed that a man made such a statement because it seems to undermine the woman's ability to defend herself is such a feminist/extremist perspective.


I didn't see anyone say that but what do I know. :shrug:


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

gsdraven said:


> If you weren't making a joke about a woman having training and gun, then why the eye roll? Certainly seems like you thought it was crazy that a woman would do those things to protect herself.


See my last comment. It was intended to be a sarcastic point to a ludicrous argument. I thought the point of this thread revolved around a very specific statement. The sarcastic remark was made on the basis that a woman's ability to defend herself has nothing to do with the comment men sometimes make that started this rant in the first place.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

TheNamesNelson said:


> I totally do not understand the person who said they feel as they should be the one protecting their dogs from intruders not the other way around. If someone comes in and gets into a conflict with your dog, takes damage but kills your dog he may still flee wounded leaving your family safe albeit mournful over the loss of your brave, heroic companion. Or at least it may offer you the split seconds you need to get someone safe with the house. If someone comes in and you attempt to protect your family and your dogs and they kill you, well then they are probably going to do the same to your children, and if they get deterred after killing you still, who is going to take care of your children and spouse? Nobody should ever think their life, the life of a human being, the life that supports the life of others should be put at stake before the life of their dog. That's coming from a huge dog lover too.


I do not have a spouse or children. My dog is my everything. He is my family member, my child, my best friend, my shoulder to cry on, my heart. I would do anything to protect him. I am responsible for him. One gun shot or stab could kill him, I have a better chance at surviving then he does. I would fight like heck for him. People that have a spouse or children think differently, your family is your everything, my dog is my everything. I do not expect you to understand that because you have a family and you hold them above your animals (as it should be) but I do not have a family, so my animals are my number one priority.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

oh good god. you guys must not have seen some of my other posts. i can and will go out fighting and am quite the vigilante. my point. is if I can't shoot, stab, beat with bat the intruder, and my GSD is also taken out. do you really think my GF is going to get the job done? she would try with all she's trust me. but whats the harm in hoping my GSD would protect her too? still no answer to that?

i believe women can defend themselves. but i DO NOT think my GF can kick my @$#. So, if I just got beat down by said intruder she is pretty much screwed. she would try but again...can we be realistic?

you all are making it sounds like every female should be a marksman, ninja, and that kryptonite should be there only weakness.


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

AMEN! it's called a consealed weapons permit!! And I can carry I gun many places that I can bring a dog!!!

If someone was breaking into my house and I had a choice of a gun or a GSD (even the most trained one) I would still go with the gun because I know 110% that I'm in control of as where the dog could be having a "I don't feel like it" day!


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN (Apr 8, 2011)

Living here in the uk you can get prosecuted for letting your dog bite somebody even if they are trying to burgle your home or on your property! It's so stupid some of the laws here in the uk! So what if your shepherd is in its own terrortory i.e the back yard and some one tries jumping your fence or wall the first instict of your shepherd will be to protect his flock they were bred to gauard so its in their blood! We have tall gates to protect our home and lots of signs making sure people are aware that there might be a german shepherd ready to eat them if they want to try getting into our property! the best sign we have got is (break in and make my day) with a shepherd on with a smile on its face! can't believe its legal to own a gun and actually shoot some one in america! You must sleep well at nights knowing you have a gun in your bedside draw? Saying that I fell very safe with my shepherd he will alert us in an instant that some thing is'nt right!!!!!


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

chicagojosh said:


> you all are making it sounds like every female should be a marksman, ninja, and that kryptonite should be there only weakness.


I have mad ninja skills!!!!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Nelson, I got no problem with anything you just said. Dogs are a great deterrent. 

However, I think I can defend the dog better than he can defend me because I've got this great big tool-wielding brain and we live in a world where your average bad guy is better armed than your average dog. 

Me (and my big brain and my tools) + the dog + my husband if he happens to be around, is way better than than me sitting around hoping one of them will protect me.

ChicagoJosh, it sounds like in your house, the line of defense is 1)You 2)Dog 3)GF. We can agree to disagree on that since it's exactly what I started the rant about in the first place. In my house it's 1) Dog as deterrent and alarm, but don't expect him to do much more since he's not trained for it 2) Whatever adult humans are around.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

what about the "child" aspect emoore? should every 11 year old that gets home from school and hour before their parents be expected to take out all and any intruder?

the GSD as a proctive dog is a good idea. there is no harm in having the extra layer of protection. I will attack before I'd want my dog or GF too. but when it comes down to it, yes I'd want my GSD to protect my GF or kids (when that time comes) if I'm not home.

I'd also want my GF to proctect herself as a last resort (hence why i bought her mace)


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

gsdraven said:


> I didn't see anyone say that but what do I know. :shrug:





Emoore said:


> Seriously guys. If your wife can't protect herself and her children, she should probably take a lesson from _every other female_ in the animal kingdom. Can we please all take some self-defense lessons, buy a good firearm, and stop perpetuating the helpless little woman stereotype?


It is implied. 




chicagojosh said:


> you all are making it sounds like every female should be a marksman, ninja, and that kryptonite should be there only weakness.


Agreed.


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## superdad88 (Mar 15, 2011)

I bought a 12lbs white PITA to protect my GSD lol 

I had a GS that was the nicest dog ever but I dont know what he would do if someone came into the house. I did see him chase the cable guy out of the back yard once. I think he was running after him wanting him to play but the guy didnt know that. LOL

I think there is wayy to much what if's going on here. If someone breaks into your house I guess you will find out if and what your GSD/hubby/wife is capable of. Pray this never happens. Everyone thinks they would know what to do if put in the sutuation until it happens. I think id be under the bed with my GS calling 911.


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN (Apr 8, 2011)

The best defense a woman can have is her knees!! No man can stand a good kick in balls!!!! ha ha ha! lisa in the uk.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

superdad88 said:


> Nicely said. I bought a 12lbs white PITA to protect my GSD lol
> 
> I had a GS that was the nicest dog ever but I dont know what he would do if someone came into the house. I did see him chase the cable guy out of the back yard once. I think he was running after him wanting him to play but the guy didnt know that. LOL


Yeah I have 2 barking mad dogs that I thought would be the biggest protectors but, as my trainer says, if they aren't trained for the situation they won't know how to react to the situation any better than we would handle it.

Now, my great dane would bite the **** out of anyone, but I am sure after the intruder kicks or beats him, he would cower down like any dog.


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## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

I think the upsetting part to dog-lovers is when someone says they want to get X breed of dog 'to protect their family'. If that is your only reason for getting a dog (instead of one of many) you are probably going to be unhappy with all the work the dog takes, and the dog is probably going to be better off for someone who wants them for companionship/sport/work first.


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## Girth (Jan 27, 2011)

All I know is if the intruder takes down the wife first I'm screwed!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

chicagojosh said:


> what about the "child" aspect emoore? should every 11 year old that gets home from school and hour before their parents be expected to take out all and any intruder?


Nope, if they're seriously worried, this is a good situation for a PPD. 




chicagojosh said:


> the GSD as a proctive dog is a good idea. there is no harm in having the extra layer of protection. I will attack before I'd want my dog or GF too. but when it comes down to it, yes I'd want my GSD to protect my GF or kids (when that time comes) if I'm not home.


Hopefully everybody works together to protect the kids. That's a given. You and I just happen to disagree on the rest. That's ok.


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## mvarnell (Mar 31, 2010)

If the dog is trained correctly for protection then it should know to disarm the bad guy. That is basic protection training, go for the arm with the weapon. The dog is quicker, more agile, and has a more dangerous weapon with its mouth than I do 90% of the time. I have to go get a gun, but the dog is with me all the time and is capable of a 33mph sprint. I do believe I will take his defense over mine simply because his is more alert and ready all the time than I am.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

What about a female dog to protect the wife and kids? Ever think about that? Talk about a serious mind game right there.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I really do not know where most people live but, honestly, the odds are much higher of being killed or maimed in a car wreck....how many folks reserch the safety of their vehicles, make their older kids ride in booster seats, make their kids wear helmets on bikes and skateboards?

I know my dad had a tire stolen out of our car in 1964......surely we are not that unusual in terms of crime? Since then my husband has rolled a vehicle, several ER trips with normal stuff with the kids, health issues with parents, etc etc.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Lucy Dog said:


> What about a female dog to protect the wife and kids? Ever think about that? Talk about a serious mind game right there.


Mind=blown. 

Fun discussion. I'm off to work everybody!


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## superdad88 (Mar 15, 2011)

I am more afraid of the little dogs.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Lucy Dog said:


> What about a female dog to protect the wife and kids? Ever think about that? Talk about a serious mind game right there.


:rofl:


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN (Apr 8, 2011)

Iagree little dogs are ankle biters! But bigger dogs like shepherds have stronger jaws that are a nightmare to unlock once their gripped onto something! Where as if a little dog locks onto you you would just give it a boot in the head as my partner would say! Staffordshire bull terriers have a bad reputation here in the uk. Is it the same in America?


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## s14roller (Nov 18, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> What about a female dog to protect the wife and kids? Ever think about that? Talk about a serious mind game right there.


Thanks, Paul...now I need to go home and re-evaluate why I got a female GSD...you know, cause I'm a man and all.


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN (Apr 8, 2011)

Ha ha love it! Never cross a woman who is trying to sleep or has pmt!!!!!


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

chicagojosh said:


> Emoore, what crime goes on inside a grocery store? if that is your "come back" point it was pretty weak. The crimes happen on the streets or in the residences if we're talking home invasion.
> 
> Never heard of some one getting mugged in the Produce section???? LOL
> 
> hey, i wish we could carry, but we can't. so every Chicagoan is supposed to move to Texas?


How about Tucson, Arizona on Jan. 8, 2011? At a grocery store where even the Secret Service thought crime was low.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

TitonsDad said:


> How about Tucson, Arizona on Jan. 8, 2011? At a grocery store where even the Secret Service thought crime was low.


1st- that was in the parking lot
2nd- it was aimed at a politician
3rd- the whole grocery store things was a tangent of the main topic anyway. I'm sure I could google and find a crime committed EVERYWHERE. 

frequency of occurance of violent crimes inside grocery stores is very very very low. thanks for contributing though.


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## Brigettes boy Hunter (Mar 16, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Can I just go on a little rant here? I keep seeing people (presumably men) saying that they want a dog to protect their wife and kids while they're away. They look for signs that their dog is protective enough to trust with the responsibility of defending the home and family.
> buy a good firearm, and stop perpetuating the helpless little woman stereotype?
> 
> /rant


Well, I couldnt agree more! I am very happy that my boyo, Hunter, lets anyone who comes to our door or walks by our windows, know that he is there and they had better beware. However, my husband and I have plenty of firearms and I know how to use them, as do our seven year olds! I also have "mama bear" personality and Lord help the poor unsuspecting soul who should try to hurt this family! He he he! We are quite prepared/able and love our GSboy but certainly dont expect him to save or protect us. It is a plus to have a 80 -something pound beauty strutting down the street on our walks with me all puffed up and proud.... I am quite certain that any bad guy would keep walking by seeing us comming! God Bless all of you, and remember that your GSD (and all other dogs) are a blessing to you and your family and they are here to give you love, affection, friendship and kindness.... not "protection". I wouldnt set my grandma at the door with an M-16 and ask her to keep my family safe.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

This thread makes me smile. Oz is the big black and tan scary GSD cross..... He's a horrid protector! We've been having issues with our front door locks, but with the weather we've been having who wants to hang a new front door? And it's just as cheap to change the door as the locks in our case. (Those stupid locks that cost an arm and a leg and don't last worth a hoot) Last week, I *thought* the door was locked when I went back to bed at 6am, came down at 7:30, it had blown wide open, while myself, and the baby were sleeping upstairs and Oz was sleeping beside my bed. Today the lock finally buggered off for good, our garage locks from the inside and not only was the patio door locked, it had it's bar in which makes it impossible to get in. I had to have the locksmith climb in through my kitchen window - thank goodness it was open. So man Oz doesn't know, crawling through my window, not a bark! Now maybe Oz heard my voice outside..... I knew I wasn't crawling through the window in heels and a skirt, plus I had the baby in the car and needed to keep my eyes on her. We were hoping the lock would be an easy fix, because the deadbolt key is the same as the handle and the same as the door from the garage to the house, one convenient key, alas, I called dh and told him his key no longer worked he would have to ring the bell to get in!
He might be a visual deterrant, but he's no protector - and he's not supposed to be, he's my companion, my big goofy companion


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I have to say I think it is noble that a man would want a GSD to protect his family. Hurray for all the real men out there, that would actually think of that. I think that stereotype of a helpless, little women has long been gone. Many younger men these days were brought up without good male role models and would not think in their selfish heads to do anything for a woman and so younger women know they have to be self sufficient, resourceful and be able to protect themselves whether they like it or not.

About 10 years ago we had issues with people sleeping and shooting up drugs behind our condo back patio, about 12 feet from our kitchen. I had wanted a dog for about a year, after these incidents, my husband agreed a dog would be good as I work from home alone most of the day. We got a 1/2 GSD from the shelter, and it really gave my husband peace of mind. She passed away last year and now we have a 100% GSD. I am away from home more, but have one young adult child that still lives at home. So now I have peace of mind when the child is home alone with our GSD.

Just a few days ago in our town, while someone was working in the upstairs of their house, a man walked into their first floor and stole their computer - owner did not know. I've heard of this happening a few times. This would not happen when there is an alert dog in the house. Just knowing how to use a firearm would have not prevented the theft, if the homeowner is not aware. The police officers I speak with say having any kind of dog is a good deterrent to crime prevention, if it is alert and barks, etc. Unfortunately, I think if someone is really intent on harming you, not much will stand in their way.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Okay,







, don't tell anyone, but I am pretty much unable to defend myself. I'm a good screamer, I carry pepper spray (to protect my dogs  ) and a cell phone. I can run pretty far, but not particularly fast. I have zero interest in learning kung foo. I like having my dogs around when my husband isn't home. We own a shotgun and a rifle, both are kept unloaded in an upstairs closet, so they are not going to be much use to me if someone breaks in.

Do I live in fear?









No, not at all. Never in my whole life has anyone ever even looked cross-eyed at me. Maybe I'm incredibly lucky? The thought that I might be attacked anytime, anywhere doesn't even compute.

When my husband and I were considering dog breeds, I most definitely did like the fact that GSDs are imposing and can look threatening. But I was thinking mostly how cool it would be to have me (skinny blonde chick) out walking around with this beast of a dog. I wasn't thinking about it from a protection standpoint.

And now that I have one (poor, fear reactive puppy  ), I am still proud to walk around with him, under my control and intimidating whatever bad guys are lurking in the shadows. If I were to imagine a break-in scenario, with hubby out of town, I think I would be most likely to do whatever it took to survive the encounter, even if that meant not resisting. 

But who knows, maybe Niko would rip off the guy's face for me. Or maybe I'd do it for him.


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## Texas_Eva (Apr 10, 2011)

I see a lot of talk of liking the dog for a deterrent, and some chatter on the use of a female GSD for protection.

Eva's aunt (who the breeder said Eva reminds her of) was adopted as a companion to a newly divorced woman. One night the woman was sound asleep and an intruder broke in with a weapon. The dog ran into the bedroom and leaped on top of her owner, pinning her to the bed. When the intruder entered the bedroom the dog growled and leaped from the bed and in the end killed the guy (believe the breeder said she went for the throat).

The breeder had enough pride when they told the story I had no reason to not believe, and if Eva does take after her aunt I'll be one pleased papa. Just wanted to share that even just a dog friend, whom we wouldn't think would do much other than bark could end up having that "kill to protect" mentality.

Just wanted to share this story.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Interesting thread.

I know that my dad has said several times that he feels easier that my mom has Cujo there when he is not there. Mom is late sixties and a cancer survivor. She has very little energy, and she would have trouble warding off a seriously bad guy. So Dad thinks Cujo will prevent something bad happening, and he will, probably. Probably a seriously bad guy will hear Cujo barking at him and go find someone else to attack. 

When I think of this scenario though, I am thinking, no way can mom pull Cujo off the mailman if Cujo decides the mailman is up to no good. 

I know that my dad feels easier about me living alone out in the country because I have dogs. And yes, they will most likely prevent a bad thing from happening. The serious bad guys will go and find an easier target. 

I feel easier having the dogs at home. I did not buy them for protection, but going home to a quiet dark house is not an issue for me. It may be dark, but if it is EVER quiet, I am turning around and getting the heck out of there and coming back with storm troopers. 

The dogs do not have the run of my house when I am gone. But two have nothing between them and the front door but a couple of 39 inch babygates. While they do not go over these, they can get over them. 

I have not trained my dogs to protect. I really hope they never have to protect me. I have gone through a self-defense course, and the shot gun is there so I can protect the dogs from other animals that are not acting right. 

I think that it is true that a gun or knife or ball bat can be used against the resident. It _is_ difficult to use someone's dog against them, unless it is in threatening to do harm to them. 

I would probably hesitate rather than shoot an intruder. The dog may or may not hesitate, may or may not attack. But I think it is far more likely for me to kill the intruder, whether friend or foe, than for the dog to actually kill them. 

Feeling safer because of the dogs is kind of a bonus for me. It is not why I have the dogs, but I certainly accept that this is the case. When someone tells me they want a GSD puppy for protection, it makes me ask more questions. Too many people think that the answer is to avoid all socialization and chain the dog so that it will do the job if necessary. And these people do not need one of my puppies. 

But when you ask more questions, you can get that the people want a dog to alert, or as a deterrent, or even that they intend to take the dog through very specialized training. (I think that they are probably better off buying an adult dog, or from someone who is familiar with such training.)

I do not think it is wrong for people to feel easier in their minds because they have a large dog with pointy ears, big teeth, and that was bred for its intelligence and ability to guard. I do not think it is wrong for a man to feel easier in his mind with his wife back home with a dog there. And in all honesty, after watching my four-year-old niece take a blanket and roll herself up next to Cujo, and and seeing Cujo turn his head and look at her and then turn his head and look at us in the kitchen, and wink, I feel easier about my parents being here, either of them, both of them having Cujo.


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## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

I'd be lying if I said part of the reason why I love this breed is that they can be a very good visual deterrent. I mostly love their energy, loyalty and overall looks (who can deny puppy ears?!) but as a single female who lives with 2 female roommates out in the semi-country I like the extra feeling of security. I have heard plenty of "horror stories" from friends who have had bad experiences with the breed, and as a result are very cautious with any shepherd they meet.

I guess about 2 months ago there was a man who was going down our road scoping out the houses, he had stopped across the street and left a note to the owners that the "bank" needed to speak with them. At the time their teenage son was home alone and I guess he was spotted, so he left the note and took off. It was 100% fraudulent. Fortunately anyone that knocks on our door hears a very loud, very deep GSD bark.. and i'd like to think that if the guy had tried to inquire at our house he may have thought twice after hearing Odin at the door.

Do I expect Odin to take one for the team? **** no, he's my best friend and my responsibility and I would do everything in my power to protect him, but I like the fact that he can give me a heads up when someone does show up.  I don't consider myself helpless or weak in any sense, but it's not crazy to feel reassured by owning a large, intimidating dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

A little story for those thinking firearms are the answer. I am not against firearms. My Dad built his first gun when he was seven years old, and he has grown up with them. 

My dad used to own a television repair shop up until I was four in Cleveland, and often he would bring them home and work on them in the basement. My mother ran the rest of the business scheduling calls, answering phones, doing the books and the like. This happened before I was born, they were young with three kids, 3.5 years, 2 years, and my sister was newborn. 

Anyhow, she got a call about a set that was done. My dad was out on another call, and the man wanted his TV and asked if he could come and pick it up. She said yes. Then she realized that this was a man from the other side of the bridge (bad neighborhood) and she was alone with the three little kids. 

She got the pistol out and put in on the piano bench. 

The thing about a piano bench is that it is right at the right height for a two year old to see. 

Brian picked up the gun. Luckily my dad always taught them NOT to point guns at each others. He shot the piano. He could have killed himself or his brother, it could have been a tragedy. 

********************************************************************

In the course of my dad's work he met lots of people, worked on a lot of TVs and saw a lot. One place he went the lady was still all bruised up from having been raped. She had a huge dog and had the dog guard my Dad the whole time he worked on her set. 

Another time, a lady had three big dogs. All trained. She ordered them up the steps. they all waited on the steps for my dad to make one bad move. 

Now I have dogs. I always have one in with me when a subcontractor comes. I tell the dog to sit and to stay. And the dog does. The subcontractor does not need to know whether or not they are trained in protection. The trained dog is more unsettling sometimes than the dog that is barking loudly and running back and forth and being a regular idiot.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

some GSD's are protective without training
some aren't. if you want a protective dog
i think you have to go through the proper
channels to have such.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I do like that my dog is a visual deterrant. If I was as imposing as my German Shepherd, I wouldn't need her to do the job, but I am not. So when I am walking at night or home alone, it is nice to know that her presence makes people think twice about approaching. Self defense is great but no matter how much I learn I would rather prevent a confrontation in the first place. As far as firearms, where I live there are very strict gun laws and forget about carrying one or a taser for that matter). You can't even carry a pocket knife over 2 1/2" long legally.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Chicagocanine said:


> I do like that my dog is a visual deterrant. If I was as imposing as my German Shepherd, I wouldn't need her to do the job, but I am not. So when I am walking at night or home alone, it is nice to know that her presence makes people think twice about approaching. Self defense is great but no matter how much I learn I would rather prevent a confrontation in the first place. .


Agreed. :thumbup:


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Scleropages said:


> Also, to LaRen616, your view of firearms is very narrow-minded. Are you afraid when you see a police officer? Guns are only tools and the only danger lies in the user of the tool. Cars kill far more people than guns, but I assume you drive a car regularly. Not to sound patronizing, but I strongly recommend that every single woman have a firearm for personal protection. You should find a person that you are comfortable with and respect that knows about firearms and talk to them about it.


I haven't read past this post yet. 

But I'm also afraid of guns. And no, I'm not afraid when I see a police officer because I trust that they know and are able to use the gun. I do not trust myself to use a gun. I'm a total klutz and have nerve damage in both arms, yes I probably would end up shooting myself :crazy: So the comparison doesn't work for me.


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## warpwr (Jan 13, 2011)

I dressed in an old fedora hat and an overcoat one evening and came in through the back gate to see how Sheeba would react. She came at me ears back and teeth bared and I barely had time to let her know it was me before she launched herself at me. She had no hesitation at all.

Do you think Polly Klaus would have been kidnapped from her bedroom while her parents where home and then raped and murdered by that scum Richard Allen Davis if there had been a full size German Shepherd in their home?

Maybe not. I do know she wouldn't have been taken if it had been Sheeba there in her bedroom that night.

So that is the reason we bought Shadow and by golly nobody ever came in our home uninvited while she lived here. Not once.
I couldn't even get any of my friends to test out my theory.
They wouldn't come try it with Kazar either and now we have Miss Molly to take over the duty.

None has ever bit anyone, none has been anything but nice to every body and every dog.

Still, there is that certain something about a GSD, right? Like that sign says _I can make it to the back fence in 2.5 seconds, can you?_

_Kazar babysitting Maybelline at his post by the front door..._


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i used to do midnight walks around the neighborhood because it was good exercise and nobody was around to bother me, but i wasnt about to go on those walks even on base housing without Zena with me. Havent been on my enjoyable midnight walks since Zena has been in Colorado. Probably wont until Shasta is older. I miss my walks. I do rely on the visual deterrant of my dogs but i dont need them. I'm pretty good at giving off that dont mess with me vibe.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'm with the OP on this one. Rely on yourself first. Not a dog, not a weapon - yourself. That's what you've got with you all the time. My job's to protect my dogs & myself. 

A few things missing from the first & last page of this (wasn't up for 16 pages) - Most crimes against people are committed by people known to the victim. - If I recall correctly, the most threatening/dangerous relationship is that between domestic partners. [stranger danger is still, largely, overblown] Gun's not going to help you a whole lot, dog's not going to help you a whole lot. And -- Men are much more likely to be victims of crimes against a person than are women. Soooo let's all the women here start looking for dogs to protect the DHs...


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## webzpinner (Mar 7, 2011)

KZoppa said:


> i used to do midnight walks around the neighborhood because it was good exercise and nobody was around to bother me, but i wasnt about to go on those walks even on base housing without Zena with me.


I take Jake for either EAAAARLY morning walks or laaaaaate at night walks. I live in a not-very-wonderful part of Sacramento (go to newspaper crime alert webpage, put in my zipcode, and it looks like xmas lights!). 

Once when Jake and I were walking at 5am, we came up to a sheriff's black n' white on speeder watch. He motions for us to come up to his window. "Hey there," he says, "you part of the neighborhood watch?" I reply, "the unofficial K9 division!" He chuckles, asked if everything is ok. I respond that, other than a group of teens smoking weed in the park, everything is normal. Cop looks in the rearview mirror towards the park, snickers, and says "I'll talk to 'em. Have a nice night." Jake and I continue our walk, and we hear the cop on his patrolcar bullhorn "Anyone in the park smoking weed in the park, GET OUT NOW!" 

was VERY funny.


PS... if someone broke into my house... I'd have to save the intruder from my wife.... she's 105lbs of psychotic latin rage if you cross her...


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

webzpinner said:


> I take Jake for either EAAAARLY morning walks or laaaaaate at night walks. I live in a not-very-wonderful part of Sacramento (go to newspaper crime alert webpage, put in my zipcode, and it looks like xmas lights!).
> 
> Once when Jake and I were walking at 5am, we came up to a sheriff's black n' white on speeder watch. He motions for us to come up to his window. "Hey there," he says, "you part of the neighborhood watch?" I reply, "the unofficial K9 division!" He chuckles, asked if everything is ok. I respond that, other than a group of teens smoking weed in the park, everything is normal. Cop looks in the rearview mirror towards the park, snickers, and says "I'll talk to 'em. Have a nice night." Jake and I continue our walk, and we hear the cop on his patrolcar bullhorn "Anyone in the park smoking weed in the park, GET OUT NOW!"
> 
> ...


 

i'm the one my husband sends after people when something needs to be done. Sales guys fear me lol. if ANYONE were to break in with Zena in the house, they wouldnt have made it out in one piece. Someone breaks in, my kids are my first priority. They'd be facing the devil down breaking into my house! I dont play nicely. my dogs are the visual deterant but they're not my first line of defense! My husband would have to save an intruder from me also.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

I got Kain for the purpose of being a family guardian first and a companion second, and I fully expect him to take one for the team if an intruder ever breaks into my home, whether I'm there or not. Now, I'm fully capable of dealing with most any threat to my family (220 lb, 42 y/o man, self defense trained, former Marine, firearms instructer and deadly accurate with a piece), but I'm not Superman and what if the perp takes me out? Or I'm not home at the time? This would leave my wife trying to round up all the kids to the safe room, get the gun, call 911 (which is a load of crap), and fight the thug off all at the same time. A GSD isn't the answer to all my home security issues, but by his actions, he may give the wife the time she needs to properly deal with the situation. It certainly makes me feel better knowing he's there protecting my wife & kids. And if he doesn't protect them, then I'll trade him in on a poodle.

Sorry some of you ladies take offense to your husbands wanting you protected. I honestly don't understand it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Another story my mom loves to tell. As a teen, my father was at her house, and she was on the floor listening to records. A spider the size of her hand was crawling on the floor. 

She says my dad was up on a chair smacking my granny with a newspaper yelling Kill it! 

Having witnessed my mother and father's reactions to spiders, I have to wonder about the validity of this story.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

RazinKain said:


> I got Kain for the purpose of being a family guardian first and a companion second, and I fully expect him to take one for the team if an intruder ever breaks into my home, whether I'm there or not. Now, I'm fully capable of dealing with most any threat to my family (220 lb, 42 y/o man, self defense trained, former Marine, firearms instructer and deadly accurate with a piece), but I'm not Superman and what if the perp takes me out? Or I'm not home at the time? This would leave my wife trying to round up all the kids to the safe room, get the gun, call 911 (which is a load of crap), and fight the thug off all at the same time. A GSD isn't the answer to all my home security issues, but by his actions, he may give the wife the time she needs to properly deal with the situation. It certainly makes me feel better knowing he's there protecting my wife & kids. And if he doesn't protect them, then I'll trade him in on a poodle.
> Sorry some of you ladies take offense to your husbands wanting you protected. I honestly don't understand it.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Kind of sounds like my house. I'm a retired deputy, my wife is currently a deputy. I was also a firearms instructor and both of us are VERY proficient in the use of firearms. Not that it matters: you don't even have to aim very much with a .12 gauge.

Break into my house when we're home, the dogs will let us know in plenty of time to take action. Once that happens, getting bitten by a dog will be the least of your worries.
I didn't get my dogs for the purpose of taking on any intruders, I got them to let us know when one shows up. I have no doubt however that if directed, Gunnar would go after someone he deemed to be a threat. I also have total faith in his "out" command.

As for offending anyone, I'm a man and I don't feel like I have to apologize for being "wired" differently than a woman is "wired". I don't consider myself to be a sexist, but I believe that there are inherent differences between men and women.

I also hope that it never comes down to finding out what would happen in this given situation, but that doesn't stop me from being prepared in case it does.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

CassandGunnar said:


> As for offending anyone, I'm a man and I don't feel like I have to apologize for being "wired" differently than a woman is "wired". I don't consider myself to be a sexist, but I believe that there are inherent differences between men and women.


Of course there are. I just don't think that a dog falls somewhere in between the two. It's this idea that, when the husband is gone, the dog is supposed to step up and protect the wife that I have a problem with. I think everybody should be their own first line of defense.



RazinKain said:


> Sorry some of you ladies take offense to your husbands wanting you protected. I honestly don't understand it.


I honestly don't understand how the idea that an animal is better at protecting the home front than I am isn't insulting. 

Maybe it's because my husband is gone 5 days out of 7. Maybe it's because I know for a fact that Rocky barks a good game but would run and hide if it ever came to a true confrontation. Maybe it's that good old rural Southern self-reliance.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Of course there are. I just don't think that a dog falls somewhere in between the two. It's this idea that, when the husband is gone, the dog is supposed to step up and protect the wife that I have a problem with. I think everybody should be their own first line of defense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL.....to be honest, from my standpoint, I never considered that it would be insulting to someone. (OK, I'm thick headed sometimes......part of my "wiring problem" I guess)
I don't feel that a dog is "better", I guess it's a matter of feeling like, as a man, it's my job to protect my family (right or wrong I think that's how a lot of men feel) and if I can't be there, the dog can be my proxy and help take care of it in my stead.
At least that's my view of it, never ever meant to offend anyone.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

RazinKain said:


> I got Kain for the purpose of being a family guardian first and a companion second, and I fully expect him to take one for the team if an intruder ever breaks into my home, whether I'm there or not. Now, I'm fully capable of dealing with most any threat to my family (220 lb, 42 y/o man, self defense trained, former Marine, firearms instructer and deadly accurate with a piece), but I'm not Superman and what if the perp takes me out? Or I'm not home at the time? This would leave my wife trying to round up all the kids to the safe room, get the gun, call 911 (which is a load of crap), and fight the thug off all at the same time. A GSD isn't the answer to all my home security issues, but by his actions, he may give the wife the time she needs to properly deal with the situation. It certainly makes me feel better knowing he's there protecting my wife & kids. And if he doesn't protect them, then I'll trade him in on a poodle.
> 
> Sorry some of you ladies take offense to your husbands wanting you protected. I honestly don't understand it.


I'm quoting you because I don't want to go and read all the other responses.

When you bought a GSD for protection did you also want a dog and chose a GSD for his protective nature? Did you think about 12+ years caring for the dog, training, food, meeting the dog's needs and compare that to a simple security system? Do you have a security system and a GSD? What if the dog is being confined in a crate due to recent injury or surgery, do you have a back up plan for security? What about the whole time a dog is a puppy, when did you expect the dog to be protective? Do you know with 100% accuracy the difference between a fear based reaction and a dog being protective? 

If someone breaks into my house my dog will bark I will have to make a choice to call 911 first or defend myself/help my dog who may or may not be fighting off the intruder, if I had a security system that would also alert me and call 911 for me. I would be free to immediately get a weapon and defend myself. 

If someone wanted to protect me I would be offended if their solution was to get me a dog rather than teach me how to defend myself.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm not trying to belittle you Emoore, or make you feel less than superior to a dog or imply that you are incapable of handling a given situation. But, in a home invasion scenario (especially where my kids are involved), I would much rather the dog take the knocks than my wife.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> I'm quoting you because I don't want to go and read all the other responses.
> 
> When you bought a GSD for protection did you also want a dog and chose a GSD for his protective nature? Did you think about 12+ years caring for the dog, training, food, meeting the dog's needs and compare that to a simple security system? Do you have a security system and a GSD? What if the dog is being confined in a crate due to recent injury or surgery, do you have a back up plan for security? What about the whole time a dog is a puppy, when did you expect the dog to be protective? Do you know with 100% accuracy the difference between a fear based reaction and a dog being protective?
> 
> ...


where exactly did you read that my wife is not capable of protecting herself? and where was it implied that I'm oblivious to the commitment of owning a dog?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

RazinKain said:


> I'm not trying to belittle you Emoore, or make you feel less than superior to a dog or imply that you are incapable of handling a given situation. But, in a home invasion scenario (especially where my kids are involved), I would much rather the dog take the knocks than my wife.


Yeah, this is where we get into the differences in our relationship dynamics with our dogs. As I've said before, my dogs are my kids. I've done boxing and MMA and have had a couple of fights. Obviously a home invasion is totally different from a sanctioned fight with rounds and a ref, but I've had my nose busted, my ears punched, joints hyperextended, kicked in the stomach, etc. But I'm absurdly protective of my dogs. Losing Cash was like having my heart ripped out of my chest and cut into little bits. I'm not willing to go through that again. You hit Rocky or Kopper and you'll see a woman getting _mean_. I'm the wife who would rather take the knocks than my dog. And that's _MY_ choice to make. Not my husband's.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

RazinKain said:


> where exactly did you read that my wife is not capable of protecting herself? and where was it implied that I'm oblivious to the commitment of owning a dog?


Nowhere. I only quoted you because you posted that you did buy your GSD for the purpose of protection first companion second. My reply wasn't directly at you but people who also purchased a GSD for protection first. Didn't mean for it to seem like I was questioning you specifically.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

no worries.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Yeah, this is where we get into the differences in our relationship dynamics with our dogs. As I've said before, my dogs are my kids. I've done boxing and MMA and have had a couple of fights. Obviously a home invasion is totally different from a sanctioned fight with rounds and a ref, but I've had my nose busted, my ears punched, joints hyperextended, kicked in the stomach, etc. But I'm absurdly protective of my dogs. Losing Cash was like having my heart ripped out of my chest and cut into little bits. I'm not willing to go through that again. You hit Rocky or Kopper and you'll see a woman getting _mean_. I'm the wife who would rather take the knocks than my dog.* And that's MY choice to make. Not my husband's*.


 
exactly. nobody comes in and messes with my kids, human and furry. I'll go down fighting before i'd EVER let anyone get near my kids. Sometimes a very angry woman/mom is your worst and most dangerous enemy.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I wonder what the likelihood is that the bad guys break into the home in the country, after scaling the bolted 6 foot fence, take out the husband with the guns and the law enforcement training to go after the wife and kids. What is the statistical probability of this happening? Of the so many million homes in the US, how many do end up in that situation every year? Any data?

It does sound extremely macho though the dog snarling and barking and wanting to kill the mailman or the poor meter reader. And then bouncing off the fence. 

I prefer not to have an animal that is nasty to everyone coming near my house. I can defend myself, my dogs are expected to be a visual deterrent. I take many risks in life daily, just by getting into the car to get to work. I feel that the probability of someone breaking into my house and my dog needing to defend me is much smaller than getting killed in a car accident. I am able to accept both risks. Rather than being considered the person with the viscious dangerous dogs.

A nasty dog that cannot be called off on command is a ticking bomb imo.

I also have respect for people who have to go from house to house to do their job. I do not think that it is right to make them fear for their life while they are doing their job.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Ok, I will admit to one thing: I absolutely expect my dogs to protect me from June Bugs. Nasty, disgusting, crunchy little orange things with the hooks on their feet. *shudder* Fortunately for me, my dogs think they're M&M's.


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## The Centurion (Apr 9, 2011)

I am VERY new to this forum, so I apologize if I am speaking out of line here....either way, here is my situation:

I have a total of 4 dogs, and am away for 24 hours at a time at work. My wife is left alone with my young son, all on a 70 acre piece of property whereupon the nearest neighbor is 6 miles away. The house is not massive, but not a dump either, and I know it would make an inviting target. There is very little crime here, but when there is, it is usually very over the top. 

Now, with this all said, the dogs are there as an alarm system for the land leading up to the house. The road that leads up is very long, and if I hear them barking at 2 am (only happened twice in 20 years here), I know there is something amiss. None of this has anything to do with my wife being helpless. Trust me, when people come to a place like this to rob you, there are several of them, and they are not coming with kitchen knives. My wife or I will be of little difference if we are taken by surprise....the dogs are there to make sure that cannot happen, and they are ALWAYS on duty!

My wife and I met when I was in the Army years ago, and I can safely say that she is tougher than easily 90% of the men I know. (I don't mean like "she has attitude" tough....I mean that she benches 250 and shoots an M4 carbine in her free time). I think that anyone that lives in my situation would be MUCH more afraid without dogs as long distance alarms, Rambo or not....this is all just an addition to the other 2 million things my dogs give me, but it is a vital one. Thanks!


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

IIRC, I read an article that pointed out that one of the crime deterrent qualities of dogs is the unwillingness of the "average" criminal to deal with or harm them. It's not only that the dog is a threat to a burglar but also that they may be reluctant to hurt a dog.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

blehmannwa said:


> IIRC, I read an article that pointed out that one of the crime deterrent qualities of dogs is the unwillingness of the "average" criminal to deal with or harm them. It's not only that the dog is a threat to a burglar but also that they may be reluctant to hurt a dog.


 
dogs also make doing the job much more difficult because dogs draw attention barking, even if they are all the time barkers. people wanting to rob you want an easy job. its why so many people are targetted while they're on vacation.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

ok, I am a woman and I love my boys. Rayden is my first GSD and he is the love of my life (just ask my husband who comes first!) 
But, he is my dog my kids are my kids. I would die to protect all of them, but dang straight Rayden (and Singe later) have one duty - protect those babies. 

I'm with kain. My dogs are an alarm; they are a first line of defense; they are my babies and I don't know how I would ever deal with something happening to them. On the other hand, Rayden appointed himself "Child Protector in Chief" when he was about 6 months old and he ripped off the screen door because my daughter started screaming outside. He has bent the door off his crate to get to the kids.

I'm a woman; I'm armed; I grew up in the middle of nowhere and have always had strong female role-models (thanks mom!) who taught me that you should never have to depend on anyone else to take care of you. 

I saw that someone posted about "dogs growling at the meterman/mailman/anyone who comes by" My dogs bark. He also knows the difference between someone walking up to the house in broad daylight when we are home and someone sneaking around the windows in the middle of the night. In the second case, he doesn't bark; he goes straight to the window and growls like nothing you have ever heard in your life.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well I've read thru this entire thread, and first must say, I'm glad everyone has kept it civil so I didn't have to edit a thing)

When I see someone post, "I want a gsd to protect my family" or "I expect my gsd to protect my family", it kinda makes me 'cringe'.

I'd say MOST gsd's are NOT going to protect you or your family, but are going to protect themselves first. 

As a visual deterrent they can be great, bark , intruder leaves if your lucky. 

you get this 8week old bundle of fur and many have the expectation that this 8 week old will grow into the BIG FAMILY PROTECTOR.. which is unrealistic in my opinion. Sure they are loyal, devoted, love their family, but in the end unless they are specifically trained to protect, the majority of them are NOT going to.

Why general Joe PUblic thinks this? I think alot of Joe Public think these dogs come trained. 

I have never expected my dogs to protect me, I've never been in a situation where I needed protection, so honestly, unless you and your dog are put in that kind of situation, there is really no way to really know if they would protect you or not


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## superdad88 (Mar 15, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Yeah, this is where we get into the differences in our relationship dynamics with our dogs. As I've said before, my dogs are my kids. I've done boxing and MMA and have had a couple of fights. Obviously a home invasion is totally different from a sanctioned fight with rounds and a ref, but I've had my nose busted, my ears punched, joints hyperextended, kicked in the stomach, etc. But I'm absurdly protective of my dogs. Losing Cash was like having my heart ripped out of my chest and cut into little bits. I'm not willing to go through that again. You hit Rocky or Kopper and you'll see a woman getting _mean_. I'm the wife who would rather take the knocks than my dog. And that's _MY_ choice to make. Not my husband's.


So someone breaks in to your house, kills your big furry powder puffs and takes you out, now your hubby's a widower. Well that was all for nothing. But hey it was your choice not your husbands. Sorry but I see nothing wrong with a husband wanting a GS for family protection, visual deturant or what ever you want to call it. 

I dont think anyone on here is saying a women can not defend herself because I know some that can kick my butt. In a case where someone breaks into my house I would expect my GS to react. Would he? I have no idea but I like to think he would. I dont own a gun but I do have a 6 year old daughter to think about and if my GS is brave enough to hold an attacker off even for a few min's while I get my daughter and myself to safety then good boy. If he gets hurt in the process then I would deal with that. My daughter and my life is worth more then a dog. I can replace a dog but if something happens to me or my daughter then where would we be?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Emoore said:


> *Yeah, this is where we get into the differences in our relationship dynamics with our dogs. As I've said before, my dogs are my kids.* I've done boxing and MMA and have had a couple of fights. Obviously a home invasion is totally different from a sanctioned fight with rounds and a ref, but I've had my nose busted, my ears punched, joints hyperextended, kicked in the stomach, etc. *But I'm absurdly protective of my dogs.* Losing Cash was like having my heart ripped out of my chest and cut into little bits. I'm not willing to go through that again. You hit Rocky or Kopper and you'll see a woman getting _mean_. *I'm the wife who would rather take the knocks than my dog.* And that's _MY_ choice to make. Not my husband's.


 :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## TeresaP (Apr 1, 2011)

Wow - the arguments are back-and-forth on this topic! As a woman, wife, and mother, I have to say that "yes" I can/will protect my home and family to the end, without a thought to my own protection. Did I rely on Braska (R.I.P.) to "protect" the home - no - but the mere fact that he was here detered three different people that I know of - and perhaps more that I don't. It wasn't a growl, a lunge, or even a bark ... it was merely his presence. 

We live in a suburb where I worked at a church and often took Braska with me. On one such occasion, a homeless man came into the church demanding money. Braska, who just happened to be sleeping next to my office chair, woke up as the man smacked the top of my desk. He merely sat up; his look and size alone caused the man to back up and leave the office. Would I have been able to defend myself and the two 80-year-old women in the next room? Sure! But I didn't have to put myself there - Braska simply made his presence known. 

Another time, a man (who said he was selling something) reached for my screen door as I was less-than-politely shutting the main door. The cockers were at my feet (doing what they do best and wagging their little stumps) while the man tried to pull the door out of my hand. Braska stepped up, taking a position between me and the door. The man put both hands up and ran out of the yard.

The other time, my daughter (then 6) was on the swing set and Braska was lying in the mulch outside (new mulch apparently smelled very good to him - he loved it) and two young men headed for the fence. I was inside and saw them coming over to talk to Emma but couldn't get to the door fast enough. Braska flew out of that mulch and ran toward the fence. Emma had started to run back to the house, but stopped in her tracks as the boys took off. He spent the next hour simply walking the fence, often stopping to stare at something we couldn't see.

All of this story is simply to say that, for us, having him around wasn't certain protection and he never had to open his mouth to deter people, but his mere size and presence was enough to cause people to rethink their motives in coming near our home. Did we get him for protection? No - he was a rescue. What all of these people didn't know was that he could no more protect us than my 11 year old son! But what we didn't realize is that him just being there gave us a sense of calm. 

The cockers are great "alarms" barking at nearly every unusual noise, but they can no more discern a threat from a hole in the ground; Braska was different. He seemed to sense those that weren't genuous; from the known threats to "friends" to people coming to work at the house. Did we, as a family, let our guard down or rely soley on him for protection? No, but as my husband said after Braska died... "I didn't realize how good it felt knowing Braska was in the house watching over you [me and the kids] when I left for work." 

Just my 2 cents worth... I think all of you have valid points, and it's all in the perspective.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I know this is a very hot topic. [and I crossposted with Theresa - excelent post - and actully, THAT is the dog I believe more likely to protect.]

I agree the dogs give an extra feeling of security and are a great deterrent. They make me feel a little bit safer too, because I know that means my house will less likely be the house selected for a crime. But honestly, I don't live in fear.

My concern though is that dog bites are a very *real* problem. Over 3000 postal workers get bit each year. Many more nonthreatening people, including children are bit by dogs "protecting" their property because folks don't understand barrier agresssion and the buildup it causes. Look at the threads on having insurance with a dog. You have a security system, you get a discount...You have a dog, maybe they don't want you.

In 30 plus years, I have found that a gate is ocassionally open or a door does not latch. It happens. It only takes an instant. I have raised kids and have grandkids. I am not sure why the majority of teenage boys live to adulthood; it has to be "by the grace of God" because they do some of the stupidest things. They really do.

The right dogs properly trained in bitework are put under pressure and can be controlled by their owners under REAL situations. I am not talking simply about dogsport because many sport dogs dont have the "real stuff" to engage and fight. But to me, the strongest point for bitework is that the dog can be controlled by the handler even if it is full blown adrenaline knowing the fight is for its life.

If I really wanted my dog to bite, I want THAT level of control and THAT level of dog. Because if my dog bites the mailman or somebody's kid, I want to be able to out him immediately and if he bites the bad guy I want him to hang on for dear life.

THAT kind of dog is hard to come by and requires regular training by a skilled handler.

At least do some research on barrier aggression if you want to be proud of a dog charging the fence, or the windows. I see these dogs in my neighborhood. Our neighbor has a GSD the kid walks on a prong with no backup collar - always lunging. How is this a good example for our noble breed? 

Some make snide comments about those of us overreacting but a dog on our street tore the ear off of one of my children's friends when they were little. That kind of thing sticks in your memory and happens all too often. The child ( a 4 year old) committed the heinous crime of going into its yard after a ball and did not see the dog napping under the porch. The dog was allowed to stay alive and in its yard (this was in the 80s and the kids father did not push it). It put severe limits on the free play my own kids could have. I was far more worried about that dog than some random kidnapping (a very low probability crime). 

To be honest, I would rather be personally assualted than to know I was responsible, through improper training and selection of an unsuiable dog (often fear reactive dogs) for injury done to another human being, especially a child. I am not sure I could get over that.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

TeresaP said:


> Wow - the arguments are back-and-forth on this topic! As a woman, wife, and mother, I have to say that "yes" I can/will protect my home and family to the end, without a thought to my own protection. Did I rely on Braska (R.I.P.) to "protect" the home - no - but the mere fact that he was here detered three different people that I know of - and perhaps more that I don't. It wasn't a growl, a lunge, or even a bark ... it was merely his presence.
> 
> We live in a suburb where I worked at a church and often took Braska with me. On one such occasion, a homeless man came into the church demanding money. Braska, who just happened to be sleeping next to my office chair, woke up as the man smacked the top of my desk. He merely sat up; his look and size alone caused the man to back up and leave the office. Would I have been able to defend myself and the two 80-year-old women in the next room? Sure! But I didn't have to put myself there - Braska simply made his presence known.
> 
> ...


 

thanks for sharing your stories teresa. I know my husband feels better going off to training knowing the dogs are here. I know i certainly feel better with the dogs here. They're going to hear something long before i do and let me know its out of place. and i'd much rather have some notice and be prepared for nothing serious than not be prepared if there is something serious.


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I've done boxing and MMA and have had a couple of fights. Obviously a home invasion is totally different from a sanctioned fight with rounds and a ref, but I've had my nose busted, my ears punched, joints hyperextended, kicked in the stomach, etc.


Note to self....never break into Emoore's house.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> To be honest, I would rather be personally assualted than to know I was responsible, through improper training and selection of an unsuitable dog (often fear reactive dogs) for injury done to another human being, especially a child. I am not sure I could get over that.


:thumbup:

What a great post, Nancy!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I think it would be sweet if hubby wanted a GSD (or big dog) in my home to protect me. I don't have a problem with that mind set at all. 

Hubby takes me to the range at least once a month to make sure I'm well versed in firearms. Hubby cleans and checks our weapons often. Hubby checks my brakes on my truck to make sure they work. Hubby checks the tires on my vehicles (including horse trailer) to make sure I don't have a flat. Hubby double checks the locks at night before he goes to bed. Hubby will go out to the barn late at night with me if I need to double check one of the horses. Hubby opens doors for me. Hubby will walk me to my side of the truck and let me get in first. Hubby holds my hand when we are shopping, walking, what ever. If we are in a crowed area, Hubby will walk behind me so he can keep an eye on me. Hubby does this and more for me because I am a woman. 

And you know what? I LIKE IT! 

I make sure he has clean underwear. I think it's a good trade.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Lilie said:


> I think it would be sweet if hubby wanted a GSD (or big dog) in my home to protect me. I don't have a problem with that mind set at all.
> 
> Hubby takes me to the range at least once a month to make sure I'm well versed in firearms. Hubby cleans and checks our weapons often. Hubby checks my brakes on my truck to make sure they work. Hubby checks the tires on my vehicles (including horse trailer) to make sure I don't have a flat. Hubby double checks the locks at night before he goes to bed. Hubby will go out to the barn late at night with me if I need to double check one of the horses. Hubby opens doors for me. Hubby will walk me to my side of the truck and let me get in first. Hubby holds my hand when we are shopping, walking, what ever. If we are in a crowed area, Hubby will walk behind me so he can keep an eye on me. Hubby does this and more for me because I am a woman.
> 
> ...


 

sounds like my husband.... kinda. though.... wait..... i think i'm the guy in the relationship. . . i make sure all the doors are locked. he's fine leaving them unlocked. i check the brakes. pretty much anything that may be wrong with the cars i know about it and push the issue before he does. i do all the laundry too.... now i feel slightly cheated..... he was all manly and sweet and stuff before we got married. . . now its video games and me still doing all the work. UGH!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> sounds like my husband.... kinda. though.... wait..... i think i'm the guy in the relationship. . . i make sure all the doors are locked. he's fine leaving them unlocked. i check the brakes. pretty much anything that may be wrong with the cars i know about it and push the issue before he does. i do all the laundry too.... now i feel slightly cheated..... he was all manly and sweet and stuff before we got married. . . now its video games and me still doing all the work. UGH!


I do the mowing and weed eating and house work and laundry and take care of the animals and wash the vehicles etc. I REFUSE to do any vehicle maintenance!!!! LOL. I won't even check the oil in my lawn tractor! However, if I'm on a trip, I'll check the fluids in my truck. 

Doesn't mean I can't....just means I don't wanna.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Lilie said:


> I do the mowing and weed eating and house work and laundry and take care of the animals and wash the vehicles etc. I REFUSE to do any vehicle maintenance!!!! LOL. I won't even check the oil in my lawn tractor! However, if I'm on a trip, I'll check the fluids in my truck.
> 
> Doesn't mean I can't....just means I don't wanna.


 
i have to harass my husband into doing ANY chores. and i'd rather spend the money to have the oil changed than let him do it because despite changing oil for 2 years, he makes a complete disaster of the garage and everything he goes near for days after!.... yeah.... the dogs help me feel much safer lol. though i dont doubt my husband would protect if the need ever came up.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

I open doors, both in and out of buildings and into the vehicles. It's how I was raised and I don't imagine I'll ever change. I think if my mother or father ever saw that I didn't wait and open a door for my wife, or any other woman, they'd have something to say to me. I also kill all the spiders and take care of 90% of the outdoor and vehicle stuff.
We both work in our garden and on the planters/landscaping because it's a hobby for Audrey and she likes doing it. I pick up after the dogs and I mow and trim grass.
We both split the cooking/cleaning/laundry around the house. She does more laundry and I do more cleaning. (She hates cleaning the bathroom so I get to do that)
We take turns cooking and cleaning up the kitchen, either a week at a time or every other day, depending on our schedules. She does a lot of the grooming/brushing/nail clipping of the dogs.
I guess it's how we've always been. Our daughter is 22 and has always been exposed to that behavior from both sets of grandparents and from us. She gets super PO'd if I open a door for her. She doesn't like it so I try and remember not to do that. I guess it's a generation thing.

When I was a kid growing up, before we moved from town to the farm, we lived about a block from the Catholic church/school that I attended. We always had to keep an eye out for the nuns that were entering their apartment building on campus.
If we were close enough to beat them to the door, we better get there and have the door open for them. If you didn't and they saw you, you were in BIG trouble.
I guess that was a different time, but IMO, not all that bad. Maybe politnessman needs to make a comeback.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

CassandGunnar said:


> I guess that was a different time, but IMO, not all that bad. Maybe politnessman needs to make a comeback.


I totally agree! 

When I see someone post "I want a GSD for protection" I don't take the post as "I want a dog that will pick up the shot gun and stand in front of my family keeping them seperate from the brain eating zombies!" I take it more as my family is going to get a dog. I want something that is a great family pet and can make my family feel more secure. 

I've never taken it as a male or female thing. I find it interesting that others do.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

CassandGunnar said:


> I open doors, both in and out of buildings and into the vehicles. It's how I was raised and I don't imagine I'll ever change. I think if my mother or father ever saw that I didn't wait and open a door for my wife, or any other woman, they'd have something to say to me. I also kill all the spiders and take care of 90% of the outdoor and vehicle stuff.
> We both work in our garden and on the planters/landscaping because it's a hobby for Audrey and she likes doing it. I pick up after the dogs and I mow and trim grass.
> We both split the cooking/cleaning/laundry around the house. She does more laundry and I do more cleaning. (She hates cleaning the bathroom so I get to do that)
> We take turns cooking and cleaning up the kitchen, either a week at a time or every other day, depending on our schedules. She does a lot of the grooming/brushing/nail clipping of the dogs.
> ...


 

i like when my husband turns full gentlemen on me. the only other males i've ever known to be a gentlemen opening doors was my dad and my grandpa. Then my friend Kyle and my husband. my husband seems to have forgotten some things. lol


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Lilie said:


> I totally agree!
> 
> When I see someone post "I want a GSD for protection" I don't take the post as "I want a dog that will pick up the shot gun and stand in front of my family keeping them seperate from the brain eating zombies!" I take it more as my family is going to get a dog. I want something that is a great family pet and can make my family feel more secure.
> 
> I've never taken it as a male or female thing. I find it interesting that others do.


You took the words right out of my mouth .


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> i like when my husband turns full gentlemen on me. the only other males i've ever known to be a gentlemen opening doors was my dad and my grandpa. Then my friend Kyle and my husband. my husband seems to have forgotten some things. lol


My husband has every confidence in me that I can take care of myself if the time came. He also knows that I'm quick on my feet (and in my head) and can handle myself in a tight situation. 

Having said that, if I am in ANY room of the house and I see a spider, that dude better come running when I call...the first time!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Lilie said:


> My husband has every confidence in me that I can take care of myself if the time came. He also knows that I'm quick on my feet (and in my head) and can handle myself in a tight situation.
> 
> Having said that, if I am in ANY room of the house and I see a spider, that dude better come running when I call...the first time!


 
oh yeah when dealing with spiders and other creepy crawly critters my husband is my hero! i'm quick on my feet if i need to be and i'm pretty good in tight spot situations too. though i'll be screaming my way out of a room or climbing on my car in the garage to get away from a roach! the dogs are useless protectors against bugs. They almost sit there laughing at me too. At least my husband laughs while he's rescuing me!


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## jasonGSD01 (Feb 26, 2010)

Lilie said:


> I think it would be sweet if hubby wanted a GSD (or big dog) in my home to protect me. I don't have a problem with that mind set at all.
> 
> Hubby takes me to the range at least once a month to make sure I'm well versed in firearms. Hubby cleans and checks our weapons often. Hubby checks my brakes on my truck to make sure they work. Hubby checks the tires on my vehicles (including horse trailer) to make sure I don't have a flat. Hubby double checks the locks at night before he goes to bed. Hubby will go out to the barn late at night with me if I need to double check one of the horses. Hubby opens doors for me. Hubby will walk me to my side of the truck and let me get in first. Hubby holds my hand when we are shopping, walking, what ever. If we are in a crowed area, Hubby will walk behind me so he can keep an eye on me. Hubby does this and more for me because I am a woman.
> 
> ...


Sounds a little controlling. LOL just kidding :laugh:


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Shhhhh, don't tell hubby. It's taken me 29 years of training to get him to this point.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

KZoppa said:


> i like when my husband turns full gentlemen on me. the only other males i've ever known to be a gentlemen opening doors was my dad and my grandpa. Then my friend Kyle and my husband. my husband seems to have forgotten some things. lol


I'm not allowed to "forget" stuff. If I do, my wife, my mom, sister in law, dad, brother or daughter are quick to remind me.

The only time it gets kind of weird or funny is when we all go out to dinner or somewhere in public. My dad was a copy for 37 years, I did it for 25+ years and my wife for 13 years. All of us want to be the last one through a door. We all kind of stand there waiting. (We all hate having someone walk behind us.....it's a cop thing) I can't imagine how it looks when someone else sees that.
And if we're out to eat dinner somewhere, all three of us have to sit so we can at least see the door. Then Audrey and I jockey not to have to sit on my dad's left side. (He's 6'9" and big and he's left handed. If you set on his left during a meal, you might get bumped and stab yourself with a fork......lol)
The rest of the family just sits with their backs to the door because they know we'll ask them to move. My daughter thinks it's funny and always brings it up when we go out.....she makes a big deal of it and points it out. If she knows I'm carrying a weapon, I'll get a real surprised look on my face sometime during the meal, reach down to my right side and start to stand up. Her eyes always get HUGE and she gets a look on her face that's priceless...........gets her every time.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Funny, I have a GSD to protect me from spiders as my DH thinks it's bad luck to kill them.

Hmmm....we had large black hairy spider walking up one of my living room wall and I freak (I hate spiders...I've gotten much better) and I'm saying, "KILL IT!!! KILL IT!!!" 

*DH: "No it's bad luck to kill a spider in the house"

*Me: repeated the kill command

*DH turns up the playstation

Loki (RIP) calmly assessed the situation, sniffed the spider and BARUMP down it goes.

My hero, Loki The Wonder Dog.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

CassandGunnar said:


> I'm not allowed to "forget" stuff. If I do, my wife, my mom, sister in law, dad, brother or daughter are quick to remind me.
> 
> The only time it gets kind of weird or funny is when we all go out to dinner or somewhere in public. My dad was a copy for 37 years, I did it for 25+ years and my wife for 13 years. All of us want to be the last one through a door. We all kind of stand there waiting. (We all hate having someone walk behind us.....it's a cop thing) I can't imagine how it looks when someone else sees that.
> And if we're out to eat dinner somewhere, all three of us have to sit so we can at least see the door. Then Audrey and I jockey not to have to sit on my dad's left side. (He's 6'9" and big and he's left handed. If you set on his left during a meal, you might get bumped and stab yourself with a fork......lol)
> The rest of the family just sits with their backs to the door because they know we'll ask them to move. My daughter thinks it's funny and always brings it up when we go out.....she makes a big deal of it and points it out. If she knows I'm carrying a weapon, I'll get a real surprised look on my face sometime during the meal, reach down to my right side and start to stand up. Her eyes always get HUGE and she gets a look on her face that's priceless...........gets her every time.


 

see i have NO experience being in law enforcement but i HATE being exposed. I always try to sit so my back is against a wall and i can see whats going on around me. People walking behind me i'm conscious of. got jumped too many times when i was a kid. too many idiots trying to convince me to join their gang. no thanks. been jumpy about people at my back since. Thats hilarious about your daughter though. i would probably pay to see that haha.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

CarrieJ said:


> Funny, I have a GSD to protect me from spiders as my DH thinks it's bad luck to kill them.
> 
> Hmmm....we had large black hairy spider walking up one of my living room wall and I freak (I hate spiders...I've gotten much better) and I'm saying, "KILL IT!!! KILL IT!!!"
> 
> ...


 

UGH! my husband always tries to put the bug back outside which starts me yelling about how it'll come back in so he should just kill it. he's given up. had a cat when i was younger who would come running whenever you screamed BUG!!!! Pooky was awesome! Riley is our wonder dog. He goes after spiders, flies.... saved me from a roach last summer i was convinced was bigger than my daughter! lol


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

My wonder dog loves to follow them around and pick them up and drop em, kinda like a cat. After a while she will take a chomp, put them down and see how they are doing. Sometimes she gets stung and then it's all over for THAT one. Occasionally, I see her with a fat lip from catching flying stingers.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I rather have an intruder than a bug in the house ( okay, maybe a little exageration, but not much) I am so freaking afraid of bugs I can't stand them, the little ugly, hairy legs and hideous eyes, they make we want to hurl, I get so irrationally freaked out I can't help it, I have trained my two terriers to kill anything I scream and point at, they come like turbo charged rockets if they hear me scream, it's FANTASTIC!!! and being terriers it was a piece of cake training them to do it, terriers LOVE to kill!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Lilie said:


> I totally agree!
> 
> When I see someone post "I want a GSD for protection" I don't take the post as "I want a dog that will pick up the shot gun and stand in front of my family keeping them seperate from the brain eating zombies!" I take it more as my family is going to get a dog. I want something that is a great family pet and can make my family feel more secure.
> 
> I've never taken it as a male or female thing. I find it interesting that others do.


Do you take it as a male/female thing when a man posts "I want a GSD to protect my wife"? Because that's what started this whole multipage thread.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think people in general find it more acceptable for a man to say that he is glad he has a good German Shepherd at home with his wife and kid, while he isn't home, than for a woman to say that she is glad that she has a good German Shepherd at home with her husband and kid while she isn't home. 

Tell the truth, how many of you men on here would be happy to here your wife make that statement? 
What does that say about you? 

And it may even be true. The dog will alert and give you the time you need. 

But women are just not expected to be the mighty protector of the family the way men are. 

This is more about how we dress little girls in pink, with flowers, bunnies, and butterflies; while we dress little boys in blue with puppy dogs, and trucks. 

Some women find it insulting to think that a husband would put his faith in the dog protecting in his absence. Most men would find it insulting if the wife put her faith in the dog protecting in her absence. 

I have no problem with my dad being more comfortable with my living in the boonies because I have formidable dogs.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Do you take it as a male/female thing when a man posts "I want a GSD to protect my wife"? Because that's what started this whole multipage thread.


The OP obviously did. But in my head, I've never thought about GSD's being strictly "woman & family' protectors. 

Like some might think of poodles being a dog for women or older couples. Not all, but the mindset might be (at least here in the south).


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## JS_280 (Apr 6, 2011)

Good post...I hate that I'm late to the game.

I agree that dogs should not be taken into the home with the pure intention of providing the complete line of defense for a family. PPDs are simply a mid-line implementation for a multi-layered security plan. 

A layered plan (from exterior to interior) for family security would be something along the lines of:

- Adequate outdoor lighting
- Security signs (regardless of whether there is a security system in place or not)
- Solid core exterior doors with deadbolts 
- Dog(s)
- Solid core lockable doors for occupied bedrooms
- Cell phones (with chargers) and a pre-prepared script with personal info (name, address, directions, etc.) for placing 911 call in bedroom
- Flashlight(s) in bedroom
- Home defense firearm(s) (preferably with attached weaponlight)

Of course there are many more things that can and should be added if money permits, however these are layers that my wife and I consider absolutely essential. In addition to these layers I highly recommend that all members of the family receive training for unarmed defense, firearms and first-aid/trauma.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

PaddyD said:


> My wonder dog loves to follow them around and pick them up and drop em, kinda like a cat. After a while she will take a chomp, put them down and see how they are doing. Sometimes she gets stung and then it's all over for THAT one. Occasionally, I see her with a fat lip from catching flying stingers.


Be careful with that. My Golden loved to catch bugs, and she ended up with a severely swollen tongue from trying to eat a bee or wasp. It was a huge scare (and vet bill) because she had recently had a biopsy for a lump on her leg bone, so when her tongue suddenly swelled up the vet thought it was cancer... They figured it out but not until a trip to the specialist and another biopsy. She wasn't able to eat on her own for several days because of how swollen her tongue was.

She always liked to eat bugs and would wait in the garden for bees to fly past and snap at them, but she never got stung before that time. I always tried to discourage her from the bees but I did call her when there was a bug in the house. I'd point at it and she'd walk over and slurp it up.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

JS_280 said:


> ...A layered plan (from exterior to interior) for family security would be something along the lines of:
> 
> - Adequate outdoor lighting
> - Security signs (regardless of whether there is a security system in place or not)
> ...


 

A moat full of aligators? Land minds around a primiter of razor wire fence? :thinking:

I'm so grateful to be where I am. :gsdsit:


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## JS_280 (Apr 6, 2011)

Davey Benson said:


> A moat full of aligators? Land minds around a primiter of razor wire fence? :thinking:
> 
> I'm so grateful to be where I am. :gsdsit:



Evil is not limited by geography...we refuse to be helpless victims.


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## liv (Sep 1, 2010)

I am finding this thread very interesting! I grew up in what was at the time the 7th worst city in the world to live in (now it's fourth, so it's sinking in the world ) Security literally defined our life there - we lived on a compound, with two 10 foot flat steel fences 6' apart, both with 4 rows of steel razor wire, armed guards with dogs that patrolled as well as opened and closed the gates (beautiful imported GSD's that were more likely to go after their poorly trained handlers than anything, but you can only ask for so much...). Our houses were concrete (people could cut through wood), with steel bars over the windows embedded in the concrete, and an extra steel door with a deadbolt at the top of the stairs that was locked at night. We never took the same route to anywhere two days in a row, didn't drive after dark and if you had to, you didn't stop for anything. We bought an SUV because a van didn't have an engine block to stop a bullet or provide a buffer for running over someone who was trying to hold you up and a truck had a bed that they could jump into if you were stuck behind a slow moving truck. 

That being said, our honest goal with security was to make our house harder to break into than the guy down the road, and that is something I still go by  I now live in a relatively safe little town, the odd car gets broken into or even stolen, but there is virtually no violent "stranger" crime. 

My dogs will alert to anyone coming up the steps, which I like since I still feel a bit exposed sometimes, but that is all I expect. I don't mind the fact that everyone knows I have to GSDs, and quite frankly, chances are that they make my house less appealing than one down the street, which I am okay with! 

In all reality, my reactive, noisy 90 lb male would be the first to back down if challenged or even quicker if they brought treats, and my little female, who is more of a quiet watcher, would be the one I could see actually standing up in a confrontation.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

JS_280 said:


> - Adequate outdoor lighting
> - Security signs (regardless of whether there is a security system in place or not)
> - Solid core exterior doors with deadbolts
> - Dog(s)
> ...


I have all that except the security sign. 


Of course right now it's a gorgeous day and I'm sitting here with the back door and all the windows open. :crazy:


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

liv said:


> I am finding this thread very interesting! I grew up in what was at the time the 7th worst city in the world to live in (now it's fourth, so it's sinking in the world )


What city is this?


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## webzpinner (Mar 7, 2011)

Davey Benson said:


> A moat full of aligators? Land minds around a primiter of razor wire fence? :thinking:
> 
> I'm so grateful to be where I am. :gsdsit:


I raised monitor lizards as a youth (think of them as the GSD's of the lizard world)... reptiles make HORRIBLE security... They spend the majority of the time sleeping, after a large meal, they go almost catatonic.... so a moat of alligators would be a waste... Now... a pool of sharks... especially sharks with lazers on helmeted heads.... THOSE make great security... Also good security are tripwire traps that dangle perps from trees, or pits filled with sharpened bamboo skewers ... If you are paranoid, do it right!


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## webzpinner (Mar 7, 2011)

Lin said:


> What city is this?


Greenwich, Connecticut.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Lin said:


> What city is this?


Detroit Michigan... Didnt you know?

Or Compton, or East St Louis, or New Haven, Conn or Memphis.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Uhm, did you guys read the description? That does not sound like any city in the US. It sounds more like something in Israel, Iraq, Russia, etc.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Lin said:


> What city is this?


I want to know too!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Lebanon?


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

webzpinner said:


> Greenwich, Connecticut.


 
Woot!! I was close!! New Haven is **** on Earth.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

If google is correct, it is current Lagos, Nigera. Yep, I can see that. Am I right?! This is like a fun game! Who cares about the thread


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

JS_280 said:


> Evil is not limited by geography...we refuse to be helpless victims.


Evil is limited by geography. You live in a 0 population area.... out in the middle of no-where, you've limited "evil". 

Refusing to be a helpless victim? I'm just happy that I'm not a victom at all, helpless or otherwise.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

GSDElsa said:


> If google is correct, it is current Lagos, Nigera. Yep, I can see that. Am I right?! This is like a fun game! Who cares about the thread


I got Chechnya Russia when I googled lol.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

LOL..... what were we talking about again? :rofl:


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

LARHAGE said:


> I rather have an intruder than a bug in the house ( okay, maybe a little exageration, but not much) I am so freaking afraid of bugs I can't stand them, the little ugly, hairy legs and hideous eyes, they make we want to hurl, I get so irrationally freaked out I can't help it, I have trained my two terriers to kill anything I scream and point at, they come like turbo charged rockets if they hear me scream, it's FANTASTIC!!! and being terriers it was a piece of cake training them to do it, terriers LOVE to kill!


 
right there with you on the ugly, hairy legs and hideous eyes thing. i'm fine with being irrational and someone else killing the bug AND cleaning it up!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

7th most dangerous city in the world to 4th..... wow..... dying of curiousity now

back on topic for me lol. i expect my dogs to act as an alarm so to speak but they're also visual deterants. All hope of them possibly helping defend out home went out the window when Zena made the permanent move back home with my inlaws. Riley will sound big and bad and hopefully scare off someone dumb enough to try and get it uninvited but if they have a bag of treats, he's a sellout. Shasta.... well to be determined. She's very friendly and well socialized but she's also young and doesnt bark at the door or strange noises. Riley will huff and puff and grumble. Shasta i guess falls more into the watcher catagory. no telling how she'd react unless put in the situation.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I am not ashamed to say that my girls make me feel safe. Just the fact they are here would deter anyone from coming in the house. If someone actually came in I have little doubt Dharma would charge. Tessa,OTOH, not so much. She just likes people way to much. Plus with her physical issues, well she can't take down an intruder even if she wanted to.Her presence alone is very intimidating though. People who see her usually take a step back, she is a very large, black GSD after all. She just looks tough.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

OMG! I HATE bugs! Yuck! Especially spiders!


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Waaay late to this little soiree, but anyway....

I know I'm safer with my mutt running around the house. His hearing, sense of smell and heightened ability to detect movement will likely give me advance warning. Time to grab a weapon, run away, or just prepare in some manner.

I know this on a conscious level, it's fairly evident. I also seem to know this on a subconscious level. I sleep better when my dog is around, I sleep even better when he's snugged up to me.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Having read more of this dialog, the guys, I guess, will never understand how patronizing the attitude of "protecting the female" is. [and some females, from the gist of this thread, appear to like being patronized.] 

As I stated in an earlier post (if it posted), the last I knew men were far more likely to be victims of violent crime than women. (So who is it that needs protecting???)
And most violent crimes are perpetrated by people known to (and often intimate with) the victim. (So who you need protecting from???) 

As for an intruder, the proverbial "stranger," good locks, good dogs or other noisy warning systems, good doors & closed windows all work as an alert - probably the first thing you should do is call the police. Then, if you are awake enough to get to your weapon of choice before the intruder blocks your way or gets to the weapon, perhaps it will come in handy. Perhaps you will get the gun & not realize that the "intruder" is your teenager sneaking in after curfew & drunk. .. If you were relying on yourself, after you lit in to the teen, you would probably catch on and stop before inflicting serious damage.

Plan??? Don't over plan. Trust your instincts -- you will be able to think this through a lot better if you do. But then I get PO'd when I'm patronized, so I get PO'd when I'm attacked, too. Don't mess with me. Or my dogs. Makes me mad. You don't want that. Adrenaline is an amazing natural substance.

P.S. I save spiders and stomp on my own disgusting roaches.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I do believe that Zion, Illinois is the #1 most dangerous place in the world.

:laugh:


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

LaRen616 said:


> I do believe that Zion, Illinois is the #1 most dangerous place in the world.
> 
> :laugh:


Yikes! Scary place! :laugh:

I think we can take #1 :crazy:
Peoria Crime Rates & Sex Offenders Report


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Lakewood is small. We have had 1 murder.


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

wildo said:


> [EDIT] ...And getting pissed that a man made such a statement because it seems to undermine the woman's ability to defend herself is such a feminist/extremist perspective.


I don't see it as a feminist/extremist view. Tell me again now, why is wanting to be treated as an equal 'extremist' in any way? Equality for both genders is the back bone of the feminist movement. If it weren't for that 'feminist' movement women wouldn't have made the strives we've made, though we're still a ways away form said equality. Please research before deciding you know all about a subject and treating the word 'feminist' as something negative. There are extremists in every group. Also telling someone that their interpretation is wrong comes off very condescending and extremely rude. 

Set up a security system, find a self defense class for you and your wife, then get a dog. This is what I plan on doing. Nothing is certain, you're dog may or may not engage and the "bad guy" in question maybe someone very familiar. As the poster above said "Trust your instincts." I'd rather take the cautious route. Without the former the latter seems like such a waste, since if both you and dog get shot, then she's own her own.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

There were 2 little girls murdered and found in the woods a couple of blocks away from my house.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Glacier said:


> I don't see it as a feminist/extremist view. Tell me again now, why is wanting to be treated as an equal 'extremist' in any way? Equality for both genders is the back bone of the feminist movement. If it weren't for that 'feminist' movement women wouldn't have made the strives we've made, though we're still a ways away form said equality. Please research before deciding you know all about a subject and treating the word 'feminist' as something negative. There are extremists in every group. Also telling someone that their interpretation is wrong comes off very condescending and extremely rude.


:thumbup:


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## liv (Sep 1, 2010)

Lin said:


> What city is this?


Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea. It's not as bad as it might seem, you just had to be careful! And I learned to identify different types of automatic weaponfire by sound and could pretty much tell where it was coming from 

After living there though, most security measures we take here (particularly in my little town) seem to be more about the illusion of security.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Oh man I'm probably going to be hated for this, but here goes...

Yes, I hope that if the need arises my GSD will protect my girlfriend and the reason is simple, my girlfriend is basically helpless against a man that wants to hurt her. In fact, 99% of women are helpless against a man that want to hurt them, unless of course they have a gun and are trained how to use it. No, a knife or bat isn't good enough. Chances are the man will take it from her and use it against her. 

I love women as much as the next guy and absolutely believe that women are entitled to everything men are, but you can't defy nature. Women simply don't have the ability to defend themselves against a man. When it comes to my GF, I don't want her even trying. I'd rather my dog step in and take care of things.


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## webzpinner (Mar 7, 2011)

shaner said:


> Oh man I'm probably going to be hated for this, but here goes...
> 
> Yes, I hope that if the need arises my GSD will protect my girlfriend and the reason is simple, my girlfriend is basically helpless against a man that wants to hurt her. In fact, 99% of women are helpless against a man that want to hurt them, unless of course they have a gun and are trained how to use it. No, a knife or bat isn't good enough. Chances are the man will take it from her and use it against her.
> 
> I love women as much as the next guy and absolutely believe that women are entitled to everything men are, but you can't defy nature. Women simply don't have the ability to defend themselves against a man. When it comes to my GF, I don't want her even trying. I'd rather my dog step in and take care of things.


 ummmm.... Dogs, even shepherds, aren't really good for taking down a determined assailant. Police and military dogs don't 'take care of people' they merely hold down and distract their target long enough for the officer to do what he needs to do. Do your woman a REAL service. Get her into a gun safety class, so she can build up confidence to protect herself. The damsel in distress thing is sooooooo 1400's... Gals these days are packing heat.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

shaner said:


> Oh man I'm probably going to be hated for this, but here goes...
> 
> Yes, I hope that if the need arises my GSD will protect my girlfriend and the reason is simple, my girlfriend is basically helpless against a man that wants to hurt her. In fact, 99% of women are helpless against a man that want to hurt them, unless of course they have a gun and are trained how to use it. No, a knife or bat isn't good enough. Chances are the man will take it from her and use it against her.
> 
> I love women as much as the next guy and absolutely believe that women are entitled to everything men are, but you can't defy nature. Women simply don't have the ability to defend themselves against a man. When it comes to my GF, I don't want her even trying. I'd rather my dog step in and take care of things.


:rofl: wow

So basically you're saying that because you're a man you can beat her up? haha
YouTube - Gina Carano Highlights

:rofl: thanks for the laugh


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

shaner said:


> Oh man I'm probably going to be hated for this, but here goes...
> 
> Yes, I hope that if the need arises my GSD will protect my girlfriend and the reason is simple, my girlfriend is basically helpless against a man that wants to hurt her. In fact, 99% of women are helpless against a man that want to hurt them, unless of course they have a gun and are trained how to use it. No, a knife or bat isn't good enough. Chances are the man will take it from her and use it against her.
> 
> I love women as much as the next guy and absolutely believe that women are entitled to everything men are, but you can't defy nature. Women simply don't have the ability to defend themselves against a man. When it comes to my GF, I don't want her even trying. I'd rather my dog step in and take care of things.


 
darn right you're gonna get heat for that! seriously? You really think us mere females are so helpless against a male? I dont think so pal! A woman on survival mode will do anything she can to get away from a bad situation. You better believe me and my bat are going to cause some damage to ANY male who thinks he can take advantage of me being home along with just me and my kids or even just me. We're not damsels in distress. We'll rip you to shreds if it means we'll survive. Yes, my bat could be taken from me and used against me but you better believe i will make it as inconvienant as possible for anyone to try! and heaven forbid someone break in while its just me and my kids at home. BIG mistake. you just dont mess with women these days. Is it nice that guys care so much about us and keeping us safe? sure it is! HOWEVER! Do i NEED a man to protect me? NO! Do i need my dogs to protect me? no. Do i feel safer with my dogs around. most definitely. but again i wouldnt expect them to fight my battles. I dont play nice and i dont fight clean. My life or my kids lives possibly on the line.... i will do whatever i have to do to come out the victor. its nice you care but give her more credit. give us all more credit. We're smarter than most give us credit for and we're definitely resourceful.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

If anytime is appropriate... its now. 

opcorn:


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

middleofnowhere said:


> Having read more of this dialog, the guys, I guess, will never understand how patronizing the attitude of "protecting the female" is. [and some females, from the gist of this thread, appear to like being patronized.]
> 
> As I stated in an earlier post (if it posted), the last I knew men were far more likely to be victims of violent crime than women. (So who is it that needs protecting???)
> And most violent crimes are perpetrated by people known to (and often intimate with) the victim. (So who you need protecting from???)
> ...


The thing about this whole thread, and I have read the whole thing, is that we need to let people say what is on their mind without taking it personally or reading words into a comment which are not there.

RaizinKain simply made a statement that he was glad his dog was protective, for the sake of his wife and family.

RaizinKain didn't say women always need men to protect them. He did not say that women will always be victimized by criminals they don't know. He did not say that crime will always take place in the home. He did not say that his wife doesn't need to be responsible for her own safety. And he certainly did not say that the dog will some how have smarts and talents that his wife is too helpless to have. Geeeeeeeeeeeshhhhhhh.

Instead of ranting about things which a person did not say, and did not mean to say, and come off correcting them or lecturing them in matters which they probably already know, why not just add a comment to their comment which expands on what they were saying?

For example: "RaizinKain, you said the GSD is for protecting your wife and family. That is very thoughtful of you, but have you and your wife taken into account that she needs to be responsible and not rely totally on the GSD? After all, women can take charge of their own protection." 

And to everyone who objected to RaizinKain's other thread--getting offended and feeling patronized for feelings which have nothing to do with you but are the personal feelings of a man for HIS wife and kids is no reason to go on a rant and ping pong these ideas back and forth for 24 pages--just invest in a good therapist.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

let's see, my next door neighbor (behind me) was murdered a few years ago by one of his friends. The guy who lives there now has a LOT of shady friends. Across the street is a pedophile with convictions for assaulting a 13yr old girl (my daughters are 11 and 16 this year). The other people in that trailer park are very transient. The upstairs of the duplex next door is currently empty, but some of the previous tenants have given me the creeps.

Do I expect my dogs to protect me and the kids? yup. Does my husband expect them to protect him? yup. Nothing has ever made me feel safer than to overhear this conversation by a neighbor and one of his friends.
I was walking down to check on the bunnies last summer (when we had Freya) and of course the dogs were with me. Shady friend walked around the corner of the barn and said "Holy  that's a big dog" My neighbor poked his head out and said "yeah, don't go over there; they've got 2 of those mothers....."

That is the number one thing that my dogs can ever do to protect the family. I walk through the neighborhood all the time with the boys. Everyone knows we have them. 

I don't think it's patronizing for a man to say "I want a dog to protect my family" and no matter how good she is, a woman is going to be at a disadvantage against a larger man. It's just basic physics. Yes a gun is a GREAT equalizer, but you have to get to it first.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> let's see, my next door neighbor (behind me) was murdered a few years ago by one of his friends. The guy who lives there now has a LOT of shady friends. Across the street is a pedophile with convictions for assaulting a 13yr old girl (my daughters are 11 and 16 this year). The other people in that trailer park are very transient. The upstairs of the duplex next door is currently empty, but some of the previous tenants have given me the creeps.
> 
> Do I expect my dogs to protect me and the kids? yup. Does my husband expect them to protect him? yup. Nothing has ever made me feel safer than to overhear this conversation by a neighbor and one of his friends.
> I was walking down to check on the bunnies last summer (when we had Freya) and of course the dogs were with me. Shady friend walked around the corner of the barn and said *"Holy  that's a big dog*" My neighbor poked his head out and said *"yeah, don't go over there; they've got 2 of those mothers....."*
> ...


 

that is definitely one of my FAVORITE things to hear someone say when they're a creeper. our apartment complex when we first got Zena had 6 sex offenders registered, 2 of them in our building. they didnt know we had Zena. One from our building was out lurking one night and heard one of my friends and i talking. He creeped around the corner and stopped dead in his tracks when he saw Zena. he kept his distance after that.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

> In fact, 99% of women are helpless against a man that want to hurt them,


I don't think a fact is involved in that statement. I think it is your opinion. If it were a fact that 1% that is left is very active.

There is a size factor but I would not say that there is a 99% chance that a woman will be smaller than a man.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> darn right you're gonna get heat for that! seriously? You really think us mere females are so helpless against a male? I dont think so pal! *A woman on survival mode will do anything she can to get away from a bad situation. You better believe me and my bat are going to cause some damage to ANY male who thinks he can take advantage of me being home along with just me and my kids or even just me. We're not damsels in distress. We'll rip you to shreds if it means we'll survive. Yes, my bat could be taken from me and used against me but you better believe i will make it as inconvienant as possible for anyone to try!* and heaven forbid someone break in while its just me and my kids at home. BIG mistake. you just dont mess with women these days. Is it nice that guys care so much about us and keeping us safe? sure it is! HOWEVER! Do i NEED a man to protect me? NO! *Do i need my dogs to protect me? no.* *Do i feel safer with my dogs around. most definitely. but again i wouldnt expect them to fight my battles. I dont play nice and i dont fight clean*. My life or my kids lives possibly on the line.... *i will do whatever i have to do to come out the victor. its nice you care but give her more credit. give us all more credit. We're smarter than most give us credit for and we're definitely resourceful*.


I couldn't agree more!

If someone breaks into my house, I am coming out swinging like a crazy person. They will think that they broke into an Insane Asylum. If he gets the bat away from me I am going to kick, punch, scratch and scream until he is too tired to keep attacking me. My cousin in the exact same way, so I feel bad for whoever tries to attack us because you wont just have one crazy woman to deal with, you'll have 2 crazy women and a GSD that doesn't like when mommy is upset.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

For example: "RaizinKain, you said the GSD is for protecting your wife and family. That is very thoughtful of you, but have you and your wife taken into account that she needs to be responsible and not rely totally on the GSD? After all, women can take charge of their own protection." 

And to everyone who objected to RaizinKain's other thread--getting offended and feeling patronized for feelings which have nothing to do with you but are the personal feelings of a man for HIS wife and kids is no reason to go on a rant and ping pong these ideas back and forth for 24 pages--just invest in a good therapist. 

1. Because I don't think it was thoughtful. I find these sentiments patronizing. 
2. According to this I am to let people espouse sentiments that I don't agree with because they are not directed at me? That would mean that I should do/say nothing about homophobic talk, racial talk etc. I should just keep quiet, eh? Obviously so Not going to happen. If we don't discuss our disagreements what the heck's the point of talking? Guess we shouldn't have bothered with language to begin with.
3. Not everything needs to be stated. A lot is implied by needing a dog to "protect" a partner - it implies concern about stranger danger - when those most dangerous are those we know.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

shaner said:


> In fact, 99% of women are helpless against a man that want to hurt them, .


I have two thoughts on this. First, as I mentioned earlier, I train in boxing and in MMA and have had a couple of amateur fights. The gym where I train has a lot of women who are "fitness" clients but not very many "fighter" clients, so I often spar with the guys. Usually teenaged boys because once those boys hit 16 or 17 I want nothing to do with them. They hit harder than me, plain and simple. A 140lb, 17 year old boy hits harder than a 140lb 30 year old woman-- and not by a little bit. On the other hand, these are kids who have been training since they were 10 or so. They're in great shape and they know what they're doing. Considering that in the U.S. 2/3 of men-- like 2/3 of women-- are overweight or obese, have high blood pressure and get winded walking up a flight of stairs, I really don't believe that I'm helpless against 99% of men. Maybe the 1/3 who are in decent shape.



KZoppa said:


> Instead of ranting about things which a person did not say, and did not mean to say, and come off correcting them or lecturing them in matters which they probably already know, why not just add a comment to their comment which expands on what they were saying?


As I already mentioned, this post was triggered by Razin's , but it's been building for _years_. I've fought the temptation to make this rant a couple of times this year and several times last year. And if he has the right to say what's on his mind, so do I. :shrug:


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

> I have two thoughts on this. First, as I mentioned earlier, I train in boxing and in MMA and have had a couple of amateur fights. The gym where I train has a lot of women who are "fitness" clients but not very many "fighter" clients, so I often spar with the guys. Usually teenaged boys because once those boys hit 16 or 17 I want nothing to do with them. They hit harder than me, plain and simple. A 140lb, 17 year old boy hits harder than a 140lb 30 year old woman-- and not by a little bit. On the other hand, these are kids who have been training since they were 10 or so. They're in great shape and they know what they're doing. Considering that in the U.S. 2/3 of men-- like 2/3 of women-- are overweight or obese, have high blood pressure and get winded walking up a flight of stairs, I really don't believe that I'm helpless against 99% of men. Maybe the 1/3 who are in decent shape.


Did you know that I used to be the South German Champion in Martial Arts and the Vice German Champion as well and when it got serious I froze. I knew what I was doing back then, was in great shape but I simply froze. 

The ring is much different from real situations. Most people freeze and that is a fact too.

And as for obese people, usually it's not the obese that go out, hunting down women. While I am grossly obese right now, once I got you in my grip, it's hard to get out. And don't ever try to walk into my fist. 

Obese people may not outrun you (even though some may surprise you) but some of them are pretty darn strong. So don't ever underestimate obese people.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> :rofl: wow
> 
> So basically you're saying that because you're a man you can beat her up? haha
> YouTube - Gina Carano Highlights
> ...


I'm sorry, but you can't say that because Gina Carano may be able to beat up some guys that all of a sudden women are physically equal to men. 

99% of the time, a man will be much stronger than a women. Even a small man is usually much stronger than a large woman. 

I work in a federal prison, and am surrounded by guys who have a habit of beating up women. Every female correctional officer in the place I work know not to get themselves into a wrestling match with an inmate, because they won't be able to overpower the guy. 

I knew I'd take heat for my post, but I don't understand why. All I'm doing is pointing out nature. Nobody can deny that most women don't have the physical capability to overpower a man. It's the way nature designed us (or god if that's your thing), it's not like I'm just pulling this out of thin air.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Mrs.K said:


> Did you know that I used to be the South German Champion in Martial Arts and the Vice German Champion as well and when it got serious I froze. I knew what I was doing back then, was in great shape but I simply froze.
> . . . . . . While I am grossly obese right now, once I got you in my grip, it's hard to get out. And don't ever try to walk into my fist.
> .


Soooo. . . . watch out for obese ninjas who freeze in real-life situations?



shaner said:


> 99% of the time, a man will be much stronger than a women. Even a small man is usually much stronger than a large woman.


A small man is stronger than a large woman, so she needs an 80lb nervebag off Craigslist with no formal training to protect her. Again. Back to my original point. Every adult is their own first and last line of defense. Male or female, don't rely on an animal to defend you. Alarm barking and the deterrent factor are awesome, but they only take you so far.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

> Soooo. . . . watch out for obese ninjas who freeze in real-life situations?



I hope you never get into a situation where you actually freeze because there is nothing you can do about it.

That's all I am going to say.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

webzpinner said:


> ummmm.... Dogs, even shepherds, aren't really good for taking down a determined assailant. Police and military dogs don't 'take care of people' they merely hold down and distract their target long enough for the officer to do what he needs to do. Do your woman a REAL service. Get her into a gun safety class, so she can build up confidence to protect herself. The damsel in distress thing is sooooooo 1400's... Gals these days are packing heat.


My GF works in a federal prison as well and is trained with guns, and I have no doubt she would fight like **** if need be, but I don't want her to. I love my dog, but I want my dog to attempt to fight off an intruder to give my GF time to call the cops as well as try to get to a nieghbours. I do not want her fighting off an intruder because she will likely lose. Is she helpless? No, not at all. Is she capable of fighting off a man looking to hurt her? In most cases, absolutely not. 

We don't own a gun and where we live it really isn't necessary. It's one of the last places where we would have to worry about someone breaking in.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Mrs.K said:


> I hope you never get into a situation where you actually freeze because there is nothing you can do about it.
> .


I know your post had a serious intent and I apologize for making light of it. Just the way you phrased it made it kind of hard to resist. :silly:


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

I think CaliBoy couldn't have say it better, and not just for this thread, but all of them, it seems some folks just take it to the extreme with the what if's or taking a comment to personal. My father passed away two years ago, so my son and I moved in with my mom, her house is way to big for her to be alone, and she loves working on her yard, being of old age, my mother could be seen as a easy victim, I work very long hrs as a career advisor at a local college, so I was always stressing about her well being, my son is 12 now and he wouldn't be able to protect her if someone wanted to climb over the fence and hurt her or burglarize her, it wouldn't be that hard, other than our neighbors are always keeping an eye on the neighborhood. One of the reasons I purchased a GSD puppy was so my son could grow thru his teenage yrs with, but also to be around my mother while my son is in school. I know right now Thor is not able to do much as a puppy other than chase tennis balls n cats, but as he grows bigger he will be out in the yard with my mother and will be a deterant to strangers walking thru the back lot behind our house. We live in a great neighborhood, but a SUPERWALMART went up a few years back, and now we have folks coming from different side of our town, so I'm not willing to take a chance. So yeah I did purchase my GSD as a protector as well as a loyal friend for my mother n son, and someone I can go out runnin and hiking with also. He is part of our family, and wouldn't put him in a situation where he could get hurt.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Seriously folks. You never know how you are going to handle yourself in a life or death situation. Read the paper, watch the news - I've no doubt the people who have been murdered or are victims of some sort, also thought it could never happen to them. Don't ever assume because you feel strongly about protecting your family or property that you have this part of life covered. You'll be sadly mistaken. 

Can I beat up a man? I don't know. But I certainly hope he thinks I can't. I'll take that element of suprise. Can I beat up a woman? I don't know. BEACAUSE I don't know, I'm stacking the cards in my favor. I won't make myself an easy target. I won't rely on someone else to protect me. I do however, expect a team effort. That would include my dogs. If I've done my homework right, they'll play a part.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> darn right you're gonna get heat for that! seriously? You really think us mere females are so helpless against a male? I dont think so pal! A woman on survival mode will do anything she can to get away from a bad situation. You better believe me and my bat are going to cause some damage to ANY male who thinks he can take advantage of me being home along with just me and my kids or even just me. We're not damsels in distress. We'll rip you to shreds if it means we'll survive. Yes, my bat could be taken from me and used against me but you better believe i will make it as inconvienant as possible for anyone to try! and heaven forbid someone break in while its just me and my kids at home. BIG mistake. you just dont mess with women these days. Is it nice that guys care so much about us and keeping us safe? sure it is! HOWEVER! Do i NEED a man to protect me? NO! Do i need my dogs to protect me? no. Do i feel safer with my dogs around. most definitely. but again i wouldnt expect them to fight my battles. I dont play nice and i dont fight clean. My life or my kids lives possibly on the line.... i will do whatever i have to do to come out the victor. its nice you care but give her more credit. give us all more credit. We're smarter than most give us credit for and we're definitely resourceful.


I already said it, but I'll say it again. I work in a prison filled with guys who have victimized females. Sometimes it was a girl they knew, but many times it was a complete stranger. Two of those people are Russell Williams and Paul Bernardo. If you haven't heard of them, look them up. They are both small guys, yet neither had any problem overpowering every women they targeted, and in the case of Bernardo, it was in the hundreds.

Yes, fight back and do so with everything you've got, but only do so as a last resort. First, if you can do so, get the **** out of the house and call the cops. If that's not an option, hide somewhere in the house and hope they eventually leave. If you do fight back, you'll probably lose, and quickly. 

Most guys that break into a house aren't going to just leave when a women comes out screaming and swinging. They're generally not the most stable people to begin with, so you aren't going to scare them. Instead, they'll likely hurt you, and bad.

I've read dozens of inmate files where a women who was attacked fought back. In all of those cases, the women was either seriously hurt or killed. Yes, in some of those cases the women had a knife or other weapon. It did no good. In almost all cases of man vs women, what I just described is the norm. 

There may be the very rare case where the woman is tougher than the man. I wouldn't count on your situation being that case.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Emoore said:


> Every adult is their own first and last line of defense. Male or female, don't rely on an animal to defend you. Alarm barking and the deterrent factor are awesome, but they only take you so far.


Absolutely!

I cannot even count how many times we were contacted to take in dogs that bit someone "protecting the family". Suddenly the family realizes the liability and they "cannot have a dog that will bite their friends or family". They "love the dog so much" so the rescue has to find them a home that will love the dog as much as they do. Yeah right, the adopters are all looking for dogs with behavior issues and bite people, their friends and family, who go near the house.

We had one applicant who wanted a "German Sheppard" that his 14yo daughter was supposed to train the dog to protect the family. What is wrong with people? The tough guy cannot protect the family so he needs the 14yo girl (who has no dog experience and probably cannot even restrain an agitated dog) to train the dog to protect the family?

Also interesting is that most of the people who expect the dog to protect the family would not put in the time or effort to train the dog in personal protection. If they did, they would know that only a very small fraction of pets has the nerves and is suited for PP. It is like adopting an 18 yo boy to protect the family (they do it in the military so why not get one for home).


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

shaner said:


> I already said it, but I'll say it again. I work in a prison filled with guys who have victimized females. Sometimes it was a girl they knew, but many times it was a complete stranger. Two of those people are Russell Williams and Paul Bernardo. If you haven't heard of them, look them up. They are both small guys, yet neither had any problem overpowering every women they targeted, and in the case of Bernardo, it was in the hundreds.
> 
> Yes, fight back and do so with everything you've got, but only do so as a last resort. First, if you can do so, get the **** out of the house and call the cops. If that's not an option, hide somewhere in the house and hope they eventually leave. If you do fight back, you'll probably lose, and quickly.
> 
> ...


Good stuff here Shaner. Everything you posted is absolutely true. Which is why the GSD-as-deterrent-and-alarm is great. Hopefully the sickos will decide to go somewhere else. But I really don't consider that "protection." If the sicko is willing to break into a house with a barking dog, at that point you can't really count on the dog to protect your wife because the sicko has probably planned out a way to deal with the dog. If your home defense plan is leaving your dog in charge of taking care of your wife it could all end very badly. Which is why (back to my original point) "I want to get a dog to protect my wife" isn't the best idea.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

Well a few years ago I was attacked violently by my then fiancée. I am 5'10 weigh around 135# and I am fairly strong and not weak of heart. I didn't stand a chance. I lived in NZ then and gun laws are different to the US so owning a handgun is not really an option for most (me included). I grabbed a bottle to try and give myself time to escape but that was used against me. If my previous dog was still alive at the time, I am 'guessing' she would have tried to jump in but who knows. And I would not have wanted her to be hurt by that SOB.

I admit I like the idea of having a medium size dog who sounds intimidating. And I am one of the few who likes the idea that she may alert my OH to the fact something(if I am out) is happening as he is disabled and is bed-ridden mostly. Cell phones would be our second line of defense after a bark.

Just my thoughts


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> Did you know that I used to be the South German Champion in Martial Arts and the Vice German Champion as well and when it got serious I froze. I knew what I was doing back then, was in great shape but I simply froze.
> 
> The ring is much different from real situations. Most people freeze and that is a fact too.
> 
> ...


Mrs. K - you seem to have a lot of wisdom. People don't know how they will react until the moment happens. My husband is considered obese according to the medical community, also arthritic, but he loved to wrestle in his youth and can pin anyone down in a second to this day. He works indirectly with police officers. The police, trained as they are may come upon an accident scene and freeze, meanwhile the road is blocked and more accidents are happening down the line. My husband shows up, gets in the wrecked car and will drive it on it's rims with the bumper hanging, etc, just to move it to the shoulder so traffic can flow. 

No matter how well trained Emoore thinks this she is, you really can't stop crazy. The skinny 135 lb male meth head that has been up for 4 days straight has no fear whatsoever.

It is natural for a normal, well rounded man to want to protect. That is the way they are made, has nothing to do with the capabilities of women. Emoore should learn to value the differences between the sexes. I am so grateful my husband supports my daughter and I spending our weekends with our dog, training. She is very protective naturally, although we got her for a family pet, not a protection dog. She will be a good deterrent in many situations. Our car will probably never be car jacked, unless the thief plans on shooting everyone.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

When reading this thread I noticed that the more weapons and training the dog owners have the more they expect to rely on the untrained dog to defend them.
Interesting phenomenon.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

bianca said:


> Well a few years ago I was attacked violently by my then fiancée. I am 5'10 weigh around 135# and I am fairly strong and not weak of heart. I didn't stand a chance. I lived in NZ then and gun laws are different to the US so owning a handgun is not really an option for most (me included). I grabbed a bottle to try and give myself time to escape but that was used against me. If my previous dog was still alive at the time, I am 'guessing' she would have tried to jump in but who knows. And I would not have wanted her to be hurt by that SOB.


Oh, Bianca! I am so sorry that happened to you! I am glad that you are still with us. :hugs:

As for that piece of crap, I hope he did jail time!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Gretchen said:


> No matter how well trained Emoore thinks this she is, you really can't stop crazy. The skinny 135 lb male meth head that has been up for 4 days straight has no fear whatsoever.


 I'm sorry. Have I not said the exact same thing several times? Have I not said that, about the point the boys hit 16 or 17, I don't want to spar with them anymore? Am I talking to myself here? Does anybody actually read the thread, or just post the first thing that pops into their heads? 



Gretchen said:


> Emoore should learn to value the differences between the sexes.


Gretchen should learn to read posts and not tell other people how to think.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Good stuff here Shaner. Everything you posted is absolutely true. Which is why the GSD-as-deterrent-and-alarm is great. Hopefully the sickos will decide to go somewhere else. But I really don't consider that "protection." If the sicko is willing to break into a house with a barking dog, at that point you can't really count on the dog to protect your wife because the sicko has probably planned out a way to deal with the dog. If your home defense plan is leaving your dog in charge of taking care of your wife it could all end very badly. Which is why (back to my original point) "I want to get a dog to protect my wife" isn't the best idea.


100% absolutely true. I've arrested/interviewed/dealt with hundreds of burglars and other scumbags over 25 years in law enforcement. Most burglars DO NOT want a confrontation. They will pass by places that appear secure, have a dog, flood lights or that they otherwise don't think will be "an easy get".
Having said that, EMoore is right on the button. If one of these people is going to break into a residence, in spite of all the above (or any other precautions taken), they just don't care what they will encounter and are prepared to deal with whatever threat they find. This, or they are after a "high value" target, ie; not a burglary/theft but a sexual assault or revenge/home invasion scenario.

A dog is a great deterrent, as are motion lights, good, secure locks and otherwise not "appearing" as a victim. This goes for men as well as women. Unfortunately, women are more likely to be the victim of certain types of crime.

Prepare yourself as much as possible. Have some sort of plan and practice it so that you can execute it. Martial arts/pro athletes/cops/fire fighters/military personnel will all tell you that you will perform in an actual situation based on your training. If "it" hits the fan and you don't have a good foundation to fall back on (training/experience) you're simply screwed. As a lot of people have heard (and I strongly believe) "The more you sweat during training, the less you'll bleed when it all goes bad."


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

RebelGSD said:


> When reading this thread I noticed that the more weapons and training the dog owners have the more they expect to rely on the untrained dog to defend them.
> Interesting phenomenon.


I don't understand that statement.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

I work in a jail and on the streets. Looking at just the folks that are incarcerated gives a distorted view.



> yet neither had any problem overpowering every women they targeted,


Note that the woman was targeted. The bad guy already evaluated the target to ensure he had the advantage.



> Most guys that break into a house aren't going to just leave when a women comes out screaming and swinging.


Most guys will leave. The ones who don't are more likely to get arrested.



> I've read dozens of inmate files where a women who was attacked fought back. In all of those cases, the women was either seriously hurt or killed.


Have you read many female inmate files? You could get the opposite opinion if you did.



> There may be the very rare case where the woman is tougher than the man. I wouldn't count on your situation being that case.


You don't get to pick the time that precautions fail. A man can get in bad situations as easily as a woman. I try to not get into fights with women either.



Back to the original rant.

I do feel a big dog can be a deterrent to the bad guys in a bad situation but having a dog so you can go into the bad situations and think you are safe is an even worse idea. 

Most guys should admit it the way I do. I just want to have a dog.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Emoore said:


> I'm sorry. Have I not said the exact same thing several times? Have I not said that, about the point the boys hit 16 or 17, I don't want to spar with them anymore? Am I talking to myself here? Does anybody actually read the thread, or just post the first thing that pops into their heads?
> 
> 
> 
> Gretchen should learn to read posts and not tell other people how to think.


Emoore, why wouldn't you want to spar with them anymore? I was the only female in my club back then and didn't have a choice. I had to spar with the 20 year olds or I would have had nobody to train with. It is what made me a champion because I knew how to take blows. 

I got knocked out once really bad because I took a blow to the head and went down. They did not hold back because I was a woman but I enjoyed it because I knew I wasn't that bad either. They took some good strikes from me. 

However, it did not prepare me for what can happen outside the ring. Sparring doesn't prepare you of the fear that you have inside you. Plus, what are you doing if it's not just one man you are facing? What if it is two or three men?
What if it is the neighbor in underwear, trying to get through your door to rape you? 

What if it is a family member? You just never know what happens. 

It gave me a great deal of self-awareness and confidence but it did not protect me from being assaulted because there is another thing I've learned. Sometimes it's better to freeze than to fight. Sometimes it's better to let it happen instead of being killed. 

And to be honest, even if I had fought back, there is no way I could have gotten out of that grip. He was so much stronger and I had no chance in fighting him off.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

I just reread my last post and it sounded more snarky than I meant it to be.

I really meant that women are often underestimated by others as well as themselves. Men often get beat down hard when they do that.

I still don't think a dog is any more use for a woman than for a man. But I still like having one.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Mrs.K said:


> Emoore, why wouldn't you want to spar with them anymore? I was the only female in my club back then and didn't have a choice.


Because it fracking HURTS! We're making the same point here. I KNOW men are stronger than me. In my work as a personal trainer, my unfit male clients usually started out lifting weights it took me years to work up to and then surpassed me within a month. That still doesn't mean I'm going to abdicate responsibility for my protection to a dog.

Also, as you said, what if it's more than one assailant? What if they're armed? At that point it doesn't matter if the person being victimized is male or female; there's always somebody out there bigger and stronger than you. The ONLY point I'm trying to make is that responsibility for protection of the home and family shouldn't go 1)Husband 2)Dog 3)Wife. It should be the adults as a team, with the dog working as alarm and deterrent unless it's been specifically and professionally trained for more.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yes, but it does make people feel safer to have the dogs around them. I know I feel much safer with three dogs in the house that could potentially take down an intruder but I don't count on it. I know that they would definitely alarm me though and that is what makes me feel much better.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have a hard time believing that 99% of women will go down to a man. I do agree that men who are predators target women for a reason. 

One thing I learned in a self-defense course that I took:

Ladies, don't go for the gonads. Guys are waiting for that and protecting them above all. The side of the knee takes 4 pounds of pressure to break. So ladies can do it if they must. It is easier to get to and the guy is not going to be able to run you down with a broken knee.

Someone said the people in her neighborhood know she has the dogs. That is huge. Those people who are out to commit senseless crimes against easy targets will most likely pass you up. Anyone who seriously wants YOU for some reason, will come prepared to take the dogs out. 

I think most of us walk around life, not feeling like we have ticked anyone off enough for them to want to kill us though.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Me too.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

> *de·ter·rent* (diˈtərənt)
> Adjective: Able or intended to deter.
> Noun: A thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from some act.
> 
> ...


 Just a couple of definitions for everyone because I think there has been a lot of confusion on this thread regarding the difference between a dog being a deterrent and being protection.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Emoore said:


> . The ONLY point I'm trying to make is that responsibility for protection of the home and family shouldn't go 1)Husband 2)Dog 3)Wife. It should be the adults as a team,


Ok, No offense, and I try not to be snarky, but you tell one person to not tell you how to think but you make a comment like this?

Everyones home dynamics is different. WHY is this "wrong" if that is how the family wants it?

If, heaven forbid, something were to happen, it would be 1)dog, mainly cause they are there first, dunno what they would do but they would be greeted in some shape or form. 2) Husband 3) Me, if they get to me, because I will either be armed with one of the guns with the kids, or I will have gotten the kids out.

My husbands and I's first priority is our kids, thats it. This is us working as a team, for the kids, to ensure their safety. Just because I dont stand and fight with my husband doesn't make me helpless, or wrong.

Dynamics are different in every family, its ridiculous to tell someone how they should do it in their family when you aren't in it.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

GSDolch said:


> Ok, No offense, and I try not to be snarky, but you tell one person to not tell you how to think but you make a comment like this?


Very good question. Because it's unrealistic and unsafe. If the dog is not a trained PPD- or even if he is and you live in an area where the bad guys have guns- the woman (or man) who relies on the dog for protection will probably be fatally disappointed.

The whole "Damsel in distress waiting to be rescued" schtick didn't fly even when it was supposed to. Scarlett O'Hara had to shoot that Yankee soldier herself.


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## JS_280 (Apr 6, 2011)

Detection/avoidance, deterrence and escape should always be our first goals whether that is with security systems, dogs or sharks with laser beams. If you can safely retreat you are better off--and in most states, legally obligated--to do so. However, there are times individuals are put into situations where these goals are impossible and they are forced to defend themselves.

With that said, a large portion of winning a fight is mindset. While training and size definitely play an undeniable role in the outcome of a fight, if you're not prepared before-hand to do everything in your power to win the fight, you've already lost the battle. At the point you are attacked this person has already shown that they don't value your or your family's lives...this should be reciprocated. Responding to an unavoidable attack should be immediate, violent and continue until either escape is possible or there is no longer a threat.

Denial should never be an option. Thinking that "it" is not not going to happen to you puts you into a dangerous state of mind that virtually guarantees that your attacker will have the upper hand. At the same time, paranoia is a dangerous mindset to live in because it will limit your social interactions that are vital to human development. A better mindset to have is, "it could happen to me, so I will prepare myself to deal with it". You don't wear a seat belt because you want to have a wreck. You don't own a fire extinguisher because you want your house to burn down. You don't carry a firearm or train in self defense because you want to be in a fight...you do these because your life may depend on them one day.

One thing that I consider vital in training is to learn what it feels like to take a punch. Most people today have never been in a fight and don't know what it's like to have a punch or kick connect with them. You don't want a life-or-death situation to be the first time you experience the shock and disorientation of a strike. While I would never tell anyone to spend three days a week letting someone pound their face in, I do highly suggest joining a local boxing or martial arts gym to experience what sparring and striking feel like. Self defense training is great, but if it is not done with unwilling partners you're doing yourself a disservice.

My wife and I have been training together in TKD and MMA for about three years now. She is around 5'6" and 110lbs. While there are certainly plenty of men that could physically hurt her, I can't tell you the number of times that I've seen cocky, unprepared men get taken to the mat by her (and holy cow is that awesome to watch!). No one should assume that because of their gender or physical size that they cannot protect themselves. Step one is to decide to take responsibility for your own safety and don't live in a state of denial.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Emoore said:


> Very good question. Because it's unrealistic and unsafe. If the dog is not a trained PPD- or even if he is and you live in an area where the bad guys have guns- the woman (or man) who relies on the dog for protection will probably be fatally disappointed.
> 
> The whole "Damsel in distress waiting to be rescued" schtick didn't fly even when it was supposed to. Scarlett O'Hara had to shoot that Yankee soldier herself.



I wasn't talking about the dog per say, or even damsel in distress. Just that, and I could very well be wrong, but you have a certain idea on how things should be in a family you are not in, even though you don't want someone telling you how to think? I guess maybe I am just misunderstanding. I fail to see how its a damsel in distress situation just because the man is the one to be the "protector".

I guess im just confused all around. lol


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

JS_280 said:


> Detection/avoidance, deterrence and escape should always be our first goals whether that is with security systems, dogs or sharks with laser beams. If you can safely retreat you are better off--and in most states, legally obligated--to do so. However, there are times individuals are put into situations where these goals are impossible and they are forced to defend themselves.
> 
> With that said, a large portion of winning a fight is mindset. While training and size definitely play an undeniable role in the outcome of a fight, if you're not prepared before-hand to do everything in your power to win the fight, you've already lost the battle. At the point you are attacked this person has already shown that they don't value your or your family's lives...this should be reciprocated. Responding to an unavoidable attack should be immediate, violent and continue until either escape is possible or there is no longer a threat.
> 
> ...


Excellent post!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

JS_280 said:


> If you can safely retreat you are better off--and in most states, legally obligated--to do so.




Actually there are many states that either have a Castle law or Stand your ground law, or both. Only about 11 states have weak or no castle law.


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## JS_280 (Apr 6, 2011)

GSDolch said:


> Actually there are many states that either have a Castle law or Stand your ground law, or both. Only about 11 states have weak or no castle law.


Yes, thankfully the "Castle Doctrine" is becoming more and more widespread. Maybe people are waking up?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

thats another one of those things i LOVE about Colorado. The Make My Day Law. Someone comes into your home uninvited and threatens your family you have every right to not only defend yourself but kill the intruder if necessary.


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## Girth (Jan 27, 2011)

Fl is the same way. I way I see it if someone is in my house uninvited then it is necessary that I kill them.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I have read many, many times that a woman is more likely to be assaulted by a someone familiar to her (husband, boyfriend, partner, relative) than she is by a stranger. 

It looks like we have a lot more to worry about with the people we share our lives with than we do random attacks from strangers. I don't think any of my dogs would do much if my husband lost his mind and attacked me. They might get anxious and worried, but none of them would do anything.

I do think big, barking dogs of any breed can make the average criminal of convenience choose a different house to target. But if we are talking about someone who is intent on doing something, and has planned it out, a dog isn't going to do much to stop it. At some point in the home invasion plan, the criminal has decided how to neutralize the dog (probably way before the dog has even alerted the homeowner to an intruder). 
Sheilah


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

GSDolch said:


> I wasn't talking about the dog per say, or even damsel in distress. Just that, and I could very well be wrong, but you have a certain idea on how things should be in a family you are not in, even though you don't want someone telling you how to think? I guess maybe I am just misunderstanding. I fail to see how its a damsel in distress situation just because the man is the one to be the "protector".


Wow. 29 Pages in and we're still having an intelligent discussion and asking good questions. This must be some sort of a record for this board. 

Maybe I do have a certain idea of how things should be in a family I'm not in. I was thinking about this today. My uncle and aunt are always telling their son that he's a good boy, that he's a smart boy, that he's strong and fast and good at sports. The only complement they ever give their little daughter is that she's pretty or beautiful. That burns me up. :angryfire: Should it? Maybe not. Maybe I'm a radical feminist because I make it a point to tell her she's kind or generous or smart or a good horsewoman, not-- Yet again-- that she's pretty. 

More to your "damsel in distress" point, to me a woman who always has to rely on someone else to protect her is exploited, whether she knows it or not. Perhaps in areas like St. Croix that you mentioned, or in Afghanistan, it's a necessary exploitation. But if a woman can't be on her own without being afraid in most places, something is seriously wrong.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Emoore said:


> Wow. 29 Pages in and we're still having an intelligent discussion and asking good questions. This must be some sort of a record for this board.
> 
> Maybe I do have a certain idea of how things should be in a family I'm not in. I was thinking about this today. My uncle and aunt are always telling their son that he's a good boy, that he's a smart boy, that he's strong and fast and good at sports. The only complement they ever give their little daughter is that she's pretty or beautiful. That burns me up. :angryfire: Should it? Maybe not. Maybe I'm a radical feminist because I make it a point to tell her she's kind or generous or smart or a good horsewoman, not-- Yet again-- that she's pretty.
> 
> More to your "damsel in distress" point, to me a woman who always has to rely on someone else to protect her is exploited, whether she knows it or not. Perhaps in areas like St. Croix that you mentioned, or in Afghanistan, it's a necessary exploitation. But if a woman can't be on her own without being afraid in most places, something is seriously wrong.


Ok, I think I'm on the same page now (so to speak) lol. 

I think for some its just a comfort issue. Well, for me anyways. I am more comfortable having someone with me than not, but theres more that go into that (I just don't like to be alone for long periods of time) I agree very much that a women should be able to defend herself to some sort of extent and not always "have" to rely on someone else.


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## JS_280 (Apr 6, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Maybe I'm a radical feminist because I make it a point to tell her she's kind or generous or smart or a good horsewoman, not-- Yet again-- that she's pretty.


I tell my wife she's beautiful...but I still wouldn't mess with her... 
















On a serious note, I agree that females should be encouraged and praised for more than just their beauty...there are way too many Paris Hilton wannabes today.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

JS_280 said:


> I tell my wife she's beautiful...but I still wouldn't mess with her...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

smart man.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

JS_280 said:


> On a serious note, I agree that females should be encouraged and praised for more than just their beauty...there are way too many Paris Hilton wannabes today.


She is lovely! And probably intelligent and capable as well. 

There are way way too many young women trying to make their way in the world based on their looks and their sexuality. 

I'm taking Biology for Health Care Majors and my lab partner is very beautiful, shows up for class every day in designer clothes and full makeup, and is dumb as a rock. Honestly, I think Kopper knows more science than she does. I end up doing the work for both of us, because it's both of our grade. I worry about what health care career she's going into.


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## JS_280 (Apr 6, 2011)

Emoore said:


> She is lovely! And probably intelligent and capable as well.



She's a Doctor... :thumbup:


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

middleofnowhere said:


> 1. Because I don't think it was thoughtful. I find these sentiments patronizing.
> 2. According to this I am to let people espouse sentiments that I don't agree with because they are not directed at me? That would mean that I should do/say nothing about homophobic talk, racial talk etc. I should just keep quiet, eh? Obviously so Not going to happen. If we don't discuss our disagreements what the heck's the point of talking? Guess we shouldn't have bothered with language to begin with.
> 3. Not everything needs to be stated. A lot is implied by needing a dog to "protect" a partner - it implies concern about stranger danger - when those most dangerous are those we know.


There is a difference between 1) someone patronizing you and 2) someone saying something you disagree with. The point I am making is that you have to actually look at the objective statement of another person to make your case of being patronized, not your subjective feelings or emotional reaction. The objective reality is what is there, the subjective perception of things is what is inside your head, and may be way off the mark. For instance, when you do not objectively look at someone's words, but start to see "implied things" or things which were not stated, then you are starting to invent things.

Now, if you claim to be patronized, let's go to a neutral definition of patronize. The definition of being patronized is that someone was speaking to you or intended to say something which, in the Webster dictionary is "to adopt an air of condescension toward," or "treat haughtily or cooly." 

Now, RazinKain did not address you, and spoke of his wife or children. If you are not his wife or one of his children, then you are not at all included in his comments. Therefore, it is impossible that he patronized you, speaking of objective reality. Speaking of your subjective feelings and reactions, well, only you can control those, but according to the definition of patronize, he, the OP, did not patronize you.

So, on to the issue of disagreeing with you. Again, objectively speaking, the OP did not make a statement in reaction to something you made. He was just speaking of his feelings toward his own family, within his home. If you want to disagree with this, and post it, I have no issue with that. But again, if we see the objective reality, it is manifestly obvious that a man has a right to feel worry and protective concern for his wife and children. In this country, at least, we don't tell people how to feel towards their loved ones in the privacy of their home.

If your subjective inner feelings still get irritated, and you or anyone needs to invent a 29 page thread to discuss this, well, it's a free country, and we can discuss things till the cows come home.

My simple point is that, objectively speaking, looking at reality, RazinKain has not said or done anything to injure anyone. Your example of disagreeing with racists or homophobes doesn't hold water, because those groups make comments directed at others which are offensive and lead to offensive actions. RazinKain's words were a reflection of how he worries less because of his dog, and there is nothing injurious about that.

So, rant away folks. But just ask yourself, "Am I looking at a person's words, and then picking them apart with my disagreement, or am I looking first at my feelings and knee jerking, and possibly disagreeing with a straw man that actually didn't say the things I got upset about?"


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Emoore said:


> I worry about what health care career she's going into.


Front office work for a cosmetic surgeon?


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Emoore said:


> More to your "damsel in distress" point, to me a woman who always has to rely on someone else to protect her is exploited, whether she knows it or not.


I think it is best to respect the definitions of words, because if we start to invent new ones out of thin air, words become meaningless. Now, the Merriam-Webster definition of "to exploit" is "to use productive use of" or "to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage."

So, for a woman to ask someone or something to protect her, and to rely on this, is not exploitation. Because if a woman asks for a man, let's say her husband, to protect her and he does not, and she cannot rely on him for this, she does not feel "liberated" from exploitation. She feels that she asked for something and is now being disrespected and not listened to.

So, the actual definition of exploitation involves a woman being used unfairly. It does not involve her asking for things which she feels she needs and wants. I think it is more respectful to woman to let them ask for what they want and not brand them with submitting to exploitation.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

rape is a form of exploitation correct?


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

TitonsDad said:


> rape is a form of exploitation correct?


Not really. Generally speaking, rape is about control and power. It's not even really about the sex for most of them.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Caliboy, you're right. After it was too late to edit I started thinking that exploitation was not the word I was looking for. A woman who is can't leave her home or be alone without a man or dog for protection isn't necessarily being exploited. Demeaned? Debased? Incarcerated? I should have chosen my words better.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

debased?? seriously? Is it demeaning to open a door for a woman? Is it demeaning that my husband thinks I need a firearm to protect myself? Is it demeaning for him to think that "us girls" are safer because we have the dogs with us? 
I don't think so. I think the same - that he is safer with the dogs here. 

Incarcerated? you think she is imprisoned because her husband worries about her safety? 

I'm sure that the guys here in law enforcement can tell you how easy it is for someone with a knife to kill someone. An officer with his gun in his holster (even with hand on the butt) can be killed by someone with a knife from 20 (might be 30 I'm too tired to find the site again) feet away. That is someone trained in use of deadly force, with their weapon instantly accessible can be killed in a few seconds by someone standing right in front of their face. MMA, even self-defense classes, don't prepare you for a situation like that. The element of surprise is more than enough to allow an intruder to overpower you. 

My husband doesn't think that he needs to protect me because I'm a poor little girl. He knows that there are some twisted people out there and we protect each other.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Wow- I can't believe this thread is still going strong... Just sayin'


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> debased?? seriously? Is it demeaning to open a door for a woman? Is it demeaning that my husband thinks I need a firearm to protect myself? Is it demeaning for him to think that "us girls" are safer because we have the dogs with us?
> I don't think so. I think the same - that he is safer with the dogs here.
> 
> Incarcerated? you think she is imprisoned because her husband worries about her safety?
> ...


agreed


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

shaner said:


> Oh man I'm probably going to be hated for this, but here goes...
> 
> Yes, I hope that if the need arises my GSD will protect my girlfriend and the reason is simple, my girlfriend is basically helpless against a man that wants to hurt her. In fact, 99% of women are helpless against a man that want to hurt them, unless of course they have a gun and are trained how to use it. No, a knife or bat isn't good enough. Chances are the man will take it from her and use it against her.
> 
> I love women as much as the next guy and absolutely believe that women are entitled to everything men are, but you can't defy nature. Women simply don't have the ability to defend themselves against a man. When it comes to my GF, I don't want her even trying. I'd rather my dog step in and take care of things.


 

3 years ago I was involved in an attempted carjacking in the morning, I had bought Donuts for my office and as I was leaning over to put them on the floor of the passenger side of my truck a young man appeared right between me and my open truck door, he told me to get out of the truck as he needed it, I had just paid off this truck, and it had my 4500.00 custom silver show saddle in it, as I was dropping it off to be cleaned. I became OUTRAGED at the audacity of this punk and told him to F&*ck OFF, I tried to turn the ignition and had every intention of dragging his ass along if necessary, but he grabbed my hand and started to slam it against the steering wheel, than he pulled my hair to get me to get out of the truck, I wrapped my arm through the steering wheel and transformed myself into the Tasmanian Devil, turning towards him and kicking and biting the sh&% out of him, he pulled my hair to drag me out and I noticed my dogs prong collar on the front seat, whereby it became a deadly weapon as I swung it at him and slammed into his face over and over, I gambled he didn't have a gun or knife on him, figuring he would have produced it long before, at any rate, you find out at times like that what is your inclination.. flight or fight, I found out what mine was!!! I was finally rescued by a produce delivery truck dropping off to the market in the mini-mall where we were, the driver ran over and the guy fled, cursing me to the high heavens, the Police officers actually praised my actions, they said I refused to become a victim and these days, punks don't just rob you and leave you alone, they kill you. I may have acted foolishly in hindsight, but there are things some people don't understand about us chicks, first off don't mess with our trucks, and DON'T EVER pull our hair!!!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LARHAGE said:


> 3 years ago I was involved in an attempted carjacking in the morning, I had bought Donuts for my office and as I was leaning over to put them on the floor of the passenger side of my truck a young man appeared right between me and my open truck door, he told me to get out of the truck as he needed it, I had just paid off this truck, and it had my 4500.00 custom silver show saddle in it, as I was dropping it off to be cleaned. I became OUTRAGED at the audacity of this punk and told him to F&*ck OFF, I tried to turn the ignition and had every intention of dragging his ass along if necessary, but he grabbed my hand and started to slam it against the steering wheel, than he pulled my hair to get me to get out of the truck, I wrapped my arm through the steering wheel and transformed myself into the Tasmanian Devil, turning towards him and kicking and biting the sh&% out of him, he pulled my hair to drag me out and I noticed my dogs prong collar on the front seat, whereby it became a deadly weapon as I swung it at him and slammed into his face over and over, I gambled he didn't have a gun or knife on him, figuring he would have produced it long before, at any rate, you find out at times like that what is your inclination.. flight or fight, I found out what mine was!!! I was finally rescued by a produce delivery truck dropping off to the market in the mini-mall where we were, the driver ran over and the guy fled, cursing me to the high heavens, the Police officers actually praised my actions, they said I refused to become a victim and these days, punks don't just rob you and leave you alone, they kill you. I may have acted foolishly in hindsight,* but there are things some people don't understand about us chicks, first off don't mess with our trucks, and DON'T EVER pull our hair!!! *




Amen!


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## plusdoegsd (Nov 15, 2010)

I agree the dogs job is not to protect the misses when daddy is away.But i also believe if properly trained and socialized you can have a loving pet with the ability to recognize a threat and the heart to competently get the job done


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Dainerra said:


> debased?? seriously? Is it demeaning to open a door for a woman? Is it demeaning that my husband thinks I need a firearm to protect myself? Is it demeaning for him to think that "us girls" are safer because we have the dogs with us?
> I don't think so. I think the same - that he is safer with the dogs here.
> 
> Incarcerated? you think she is imprisoned because her husband worries about her safety?
> ...





Emoore said:


> A woman who can't leave her home or be alone without a man or dog for protection isn't necessarily being exploited.


I'm pretty sure the important part is *can't leave her home or be alone. *You are not talking about the same thing whatsoever.


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

I truly feel this thread is going on, because their are just some stubborness going back n forth on different views, it started on having a GSD for protection, and now it seems to be going about how women should be handling n taking care of themselves, it seems they are being put on the defensive right here on this thread. I don't see nothing wrong if a man wants to have, and if his wife feels safer with a GSD as a pet, especially if they are in the military and are gone for a long period of times. It should be for each their own, and not pushing one views on others. I'm fairly new on here, and I've noticed that some folks just don't want to let go of their views or believes. I have read some threads on here that have come across as crude towards women, and It shouldn't be that way. If the dog serves as a deterent, than he has done his job, for his master and his family. Hopefully nothing will be taken out of context on my opinion, it's hard to express everything when having to type it.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Dainerra said:


> debased?? seriously? Is it demeaning to open a door for a woman? Is it demeaning that my husband thinks I need a firearm to protect myself?


No, that's just silly. And if you can point out where I said it I'll gladly retract it.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Lin said:


> I'm pretty sure the important part is *can't leave her home or be alone. *You are not talking about the same thing whatsoever.


Thank you Lin.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Caliboy - here's one more attempt to show you the way...

If someone says something to another person or about another person that I find offensive - something demeaning or patronizing - I have a right if not an obligation to call them out on their attitude. This is especially true if I belong to the class being demeaned or patronized.

Now, I did not start this thread but I am very happy Emoore did. I recognize that those that don't "get it" now won't get it in the course of this thread. However, there is some hope that sometime in the future, part of it might begin to have you question your attitude. That is what discussion is about.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think it's probably some kind of record that we made it 31 pages on a contentious topic and none of the posts had to be edited by a mod. Nice job everybody! High five!


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

rjThor said:


> I truly feel this thread is going on, because their are just some stubborness going back n forth on different views, it started on having a GSD for protection, and now it seems to be going about how women should be handling n taking care of themselves, it seems they are being put on the defensive right here on this thread. I don't see nothing wrong if a man wants to have, and if his wife feels safer with a GSD as a pet, especially if they are in the military and are gone for a long period of times. It should be for each their own, and not pushing one views on others. I'm fairly new on here, and I've noticed that some folks just don't want to let go of their views or believes. I have read some threads on here that have come across as crude towards women, and It shouldn't be that way. If the dog serves as a deterent, than he has done his job, for his master and his family. Hopefully nothing will be taken out of context on my opinion, it's hard to express everything when having to type it.


Stubbornness goes both ways you know. Look at it from a logical point, an animal cannot protect you any better than you can protect yourself. Folks come on here asking or talking about how they want their untrained dog to protect their family. 

Yes, dogs are a deterrent(which doesn't mean the dog will actually engage), but so are cameras, heck a sign in front of your house saying "Protected by 'insert company' security," is a deterrent. The only thing absolute if it comes down to it you need to be able to protect yourself, or at the very least have an alternate escape route and a way to contact the authorities. Getting a dog without knowing how to actually protect yourself if the need arise is a waste of time, money, and lives if someone gets killed. So the whole "Need do to protect the wife and kid!!," while well intentioned is pointless.

Also if my issue within this thread has nothing to do with the dog subject, but more to do with the condescending attitude toward women. We can protect ourselves, we have to in a world where 1 in 4 women(taken from the Bureau of Statistics) is sexually assaulted at some point in her life and 84% of the women who are raped knew their assailants. Learn to protect yourselves ladies, your husband, boyfriend, or dog will not be with you every waking second, and please be safe.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Lilie said:


> Seriously folks. You never know how you are going to handle yourself in a life or death situation. Read the paper, watch the news - I've no doubt the people who have been murdered or are victims of some sort, also thought it could never happen to them. Don't ever assume because you feel strongly about protecting your family or property that you have this part of life covered. You'll be sadly mistaken.
> 
> Can I beat up a man? I don't know. But I certainly hope he thinks I can't. I'll take that element of suprise. Can I beat up a woman? I don't know. BEACAUSE I don't know, I'm stacking the cards in my favor. I won't make myself an easy target. I won't rely on someone else to protect me. I do however, expect a team effort. That would include my dogs. If I've done my homework right, they'll play a part.


I agree. Its best to be prepared than not all. But sometimes you just don't know, and its silly to say it won't happen to you. Things can happen when we least expect it.

Dogs can be a great deterent, but we can't depend on them to fight or protect us. Most of the time it will be us defending ourselves. It all depends on the situation, where we are, what we have and so on.


99% of women can't overpower a man? Sorry thats just not true.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

A couple of weeks ago I went with my sister to Walmart.

My sister is 7 years older than me and she is on the heavy side.

We were in the car talking about getting mugged or kidnapped, I dont remember why this subject came up but I told her I would fight like heck if someone attacked me. 

She told me that she would just use her weight and become limp like a possom. :laugh: She said "There is no way that someone is going to be able to move my big butt if I become dead weight." 

I said "that's great, I hope I never get attacked while I am with you, while I am fighting him with all that I got, you will be laying on the floor playing dead."

:rofl:


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## Coastie01 (Mar 17, 2011)

KZoppa said:


> THANK YOU!!!! i love my dogs. They're family. Its nice they're deterents but i dont need them to protect me and my kids. I'm a mean mama bear type. I dont need the dogs to step in. Could they? sure if it was needed. Beyond that.... dont mess with me. I have a metal baseball bat that is next to my bed. I have my husbands very painful pellet rifle in a closet downstairs. and i'm not afraid to beat the tar outta someone. The dogs would probably sit back and stare!


Zoppa I didnt look any further into the thread to see if anyone said anything but please, DO NOT EVER PULL A PELLET GUN ON SOMEONE. That is just asking to get yourself shot. A "painful" pellet gun isnt going to stop a raging 250 pound parolee who is high on only god know what. If you dont have a real gun dont bring anything that looks like a gun into the situation it will only get you shot.

But on the topic of the thread my dog is a great alarm system and would act as a buffer between the front of the house and where my family is at in the back of the house. I love my dog but i would much rather him get stabbed and give my wife the time to get her gun than to have anything happend to the humans in my family.


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

Coastie01 said:


> Zoppa I didnt look any further into the thread to see if anyone said anything but please, DO NOT EVER PULL A PELLET GUN ON SOMEONE. That is just asking to get yourself shot. A "painful" pellet gun isnt going to stop a raging 250 pound parolee who is high on only god know what. If you dont have a real gun dont bring anything that looks like a gun into the situation it will only get you shot.
> 
> But on the topic of the thread my dog is a great alarm system and would act as a buffer between the front of the house and where my family is at in the back of the house. I love my dog but i would much rather him get stabbed and give my wife the time to get her gun than to have anything happend to the humans in my family.


As ugly or as painful as It might sound, Coastie01 finally said it, and let's all be honest If you had a choice of your GSD or the mother of your kids getting stabbed, or let me ask the women on this thread who have young children, would you rather it be you or your GSD that would get stabbed or shot? A parent a child can never be replaced, and as much as I love my GSD, and hopefully this doesn't come out the wrong way, but I would rather loose my dog than a mother or a child. The few seconds a dog can give you, just might be all you need to live another day. Honestly a victim never thinks he or she is gonna be a victim, the attacker already has the advantage, he's already pre meditated his actions, so if you are caught by surprise, or from behind, and get hit, you just about lost the battle. I feel the same way as Coastie01.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Coastie01 said:


> Zoppa I didnt look any further into the thread to see if anyone said anything but please, DO NOT EVER PULL A PELLET GUN ON SOMEONE. That is just asking to get yourself shot. A "painful" pellet gun isnt going to stop a raging 250 pound parolee who is high on only god know what. If you dont have a real gun dont bring anything that looks like a gun into the situation it will only get you shot.
> 
> But on the topic of the thread my dog is a great alarm system and would act as a buffer between the front of the house and where my family is at in the back of the house. I love my dog but i would much rather him get stabbed and give my wife the time to get her gun than to have anything happend to the humans in my family.


 
*If necessary i would use the pellet gun. If it means protecting my kids, i will use ANY means necessary. I use what i have available. Even unloaded i could still use the pellet gun to hit the intruder. As i've stated i keep a metal baseball bat next to my bed and at least one dog sleeps in the room with me. Hence a previous comment on women being more resourceful than many give us credit for. You're in my house univited, you're either going to leave on your own, or your going to leave bloodied and bruised one way or another. I do understand what you're saying though. *




rjThor said:


> As ugly or as painful as It might sound, Coastie01 finally said it, and let's all be honest If you had a choice of your GSD or the mother of your kids getting stabbed, or let me ask the women on this thread who have young children, would you rather it be you or your GSD that would get stabbed or shot? A parent a child can never be replaced, and as much as I love my GSD, and hopefully this doesn't come out the wrong way, but I would rather loose my dog than a mother or a child. The few seconds a dog can give you, just might be all you need to live another day. Honestly a victim never thinks he or she is gonna be a victim, the attacker already has the advantage, he's already pre meditated his actions, so if you are caught by surprise, or from behind, and get hit, you just about lost the battle. I feel the same way as Coastie01.


 

*honestly, i love my dogs but i do have to say if its them or me or my kids, me and my kids come first. My kids are my heart. They cant be replaced. Them and their safety always come first. *


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Okay, any dog could alert to someone you don't need a GSD for that. Some men are saying the dog will bark alerting the wife so she has time to get her gun. I don't know about the rest of you but when Sage alert barks I don't go into panic mode wondering what/who is out there and find my nearest weapon.

When I got home from work tonight "Hannibal" was on. It was a scene where Lecter broke into an FBI agent's house while the GSD lay scared on the floor.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> Okay, any dog could alert to someone you don't need a GSD for that. Some men are saying the dog will bark alerting the wife so she has time to get her gun. I don't know about the rest of you but when Sage alert barks I don't go into panic mode wondering what/who is out there and find my nearest weapon.
> 
> When I got home from work tonight "Hannibal" was on. It was a scene where Lecter broke into an FBI agent's house while the GSD lay scared on the floor.


 
yeah dont go into panic mode. Do get concerned with a specific bark though!


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## Coastie01 (Mar 17, 2011)

Zoppa you have the "warrior" mentality and i like that but i still stand by leave the pellet gun in the closet. There is no good that can come from it. Your not gonna win a gunfight with a pellet gun and a bat is a far superior blunt weapon.

Sagel of course your not going to be getting a gun everytime your dog barks but when its 2 AM and he/she does that should be what your doing.


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

middleofnowhere said:


> Caliboy - here's one more attempt to show you the way...
> 
> If someone says something to another person or about another person that I find offensive - something demeaning or patronizing - I have a right if not an obligation to call them out on their attitude. This is especially true if I belong to the class being demeaned or patronized.
> 
> Now, I did not start this thread but I am very happy Emoore did. I recognize that those that don't "get it" now won't get it in the course of this thread. However, there is some hope that sometime in the future, part of it might begin to have you question your attitude. That is what discussion is about.


Poor you. Making so many attempts to show me the way, and me not getting it. Be careful, or you may prove the old saying, "you dislike in others (patronizing) the very things which you are prone to do yourself (patronize).

I get that you have the right to call people out for patronizing you or a class of people you belong to. However, the point you never proved, to me, is that RazinKain's issue of wanting his wife and family protected was patronizing. Just because you say something is so does not mean that it is so. That goes for Emoore and everyone else who thinks that a protective man is somehow detracting from the capabilities or dignity of his wife.

As I see it, you never made your case. Or, to put it another way, you made your case to yourself, in your own mind, but I don't see that out in the world of objective reality your point was ever proved.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

> She told me that she would just use her weight and become limp like a possom. :laugh: She said "There is no way that someone is going to be able to move my big butt if I become dead weight."
> 
> I said "that's great, I hope I never get attacked while I am with you, while I am fighting him with all that I got, you will be laying on the floor playing dead."


The Red Green defensive technique. Quando omni flunkus mortadi!!

Keep your stick on the ice.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> A couple of weeks ago I went with my sister to Walmart.
> 
> My sister is 7 years older than me and she is on the heavy side.
> 
> ...


 
Many moons ago, my two older sisters were car jacked. It was late at night, they were rooming together, one worked a late shift and the other went to pick her up. They pulled into their parking space at their apartment and before they could fully get out of the car two men appeared, one at each door. Each guy had a gun pointed at each one of my sisters. One of the men told one of my sisters (the passenger) to run, so she did...screaming at the top of her lungs. She didn't run, leaving my other sister - she thought he was speaking to both of them. 

My other sister (the driver) took of running as well, but in a different direction. She didn't scream, it never occurred to her to do so. 

The two guys get into her car, a camaro - stick shift. Turned out neither one could drive a stick. So the car rolled into the car behind them and the two guys took off on foot. 

People in the complex called the police (screaming sister) and when my sisters were giving their report to the police a call came in that two blocks away a man was badly pistol whipped and his car was jacked. He was hospitalized with swelling of the brain. 

My point is sometimes it's best to leave the scene. I suspect if my sister (the driver) stayed, they may have made her drive, and the worst could have happened.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Lilie said:


> Many moons ago, my two older sisters were car jacked. It was late at night, they were rooming together, one worked a late shift and the other went to pick her up. They pulled into their parking space at their apartment and before they could fully get out of the car two men appeared, one at each door. Each guy had a gun pointed at each one of my sisters. One of the men told one of my sisters (the passenger) to run, so she did...screaming at the top of her lungs. She didn't run, leaving my other sister - she thought he was speaking to both of them.
> 
> My other sister (the driver) took of running as well, but in a different direction. She didn't scream, it never occurred to her to do so.
> 
> ...


THAT IS SO SCARY. I think about stuff happening to me like this all the time. I am overly cautious, but you kind of need to be these days. I have ran into so many people that are not the "good" type of people, I know they are out there.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

PupperLove said:


> THAT IS SO SCARY. I think about stuff happening to me like this all the time. I am overly cautious, but you kind of need to be these days. I have ran into so many people that are not the "good" type of people, I know they are out there.


So true. I think that people who prey on others are cowards. Through and through cowards. Cowards who prey on women. Cowards who prey on men. Cowards who prey on children. 

If my big dog makes them think twice about preying on my family or me, then that is ever so groovy with me.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

rjThor said:


> r let me ask the women on this thread who have young children, would you rather it be you or your GSD that would get stabbed or shot?


 I don't have children, so I can't answer this for myself, but I can certainly see your point. I can also see how you'd rather the neighbor get stabbed or shot than your wife or kids. I can even see how you'd want your neighbor or friend to give their life for little Johnny. But planning in advance to use the neighbors as human shields is morally repugnant, as is buying a dog for the main purpose of being cannon fodder. 



CaliBoy said:


> . However, the point you never proved, to me, is that RazinKain's issue of wanting his wife and family protected was patronizing.


It took the Supreme Court 60 years to prove that "Separate But Equal" was patronizing (to say the least). These things are devilishly hard to prove because everybody can come up with facts and opinions to back them up. 

You'll notice that never in this thread have I said that it was wrong or patronizing for a man to step in and defend his wife in a physical confrontation if he is present. 

The issue here is leaving an animal-- a dumb animal with no training, no opposable thumbs, no higher-order cognitive skills, no weapons besides the ones in his mouth (which are no match for what the bad guys are carrying)- "in charge" of protecting his wife. If you don't see how that's patronizing I can't help you.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

PupperLove said:


> THAT IS SO SCARY. I think about stuff happening to me like this all the time. I am overly cautious, but you kind of need to be these days. I have ran into so many people that are not the "good" type of people, I know they are out there.


 
after having someone try to steal my purse/car while i was at a drive thru window one night, i have severe issues going any place on my own at night. I usually take one of the dogs. They'll sit in the passenger seat. Had a guy start to approach my car while i was out picking up something for dinner one night. he was starting to pull something out from under his jacket. Riley popped up and started growling at the guy. That guy immediately turned tail and took off. The manager of the drive thru called the cops to look for the guy after an employee asked me what had just happened. Too many creepers out there. I'd rather be safe than sorry.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Emoore said:


> The issue here is leaving an animal-- a dumb animal with no training, no opposable thumbs, no higher-order cognitive skills, no weapons besides the ones in his mouth (which are no match for what the bad guys are carrying)- "in charge" of protecting his wife. If you don't see how that's patronizing I can't help you.


 
I don't think anybody wants thier GSD "in charge" of protecting the family. I think they want to have a GSD as a great family pet that would be deterant to a would be perp.


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

Whether you agree with her or not, I applaud Emoore for initiating this topic so we can thoughtfully discuss it. It is important, as GSD owners and aficionados, to educate ourselves so that we may be better handlers in order to promote the breed to the best of our ability. 

Here is my two cents.

I am a single female that happens to use a wheelchair for mobility. I work full-time as a teacher and am also a dog trainer (I train service dogs and teach obedience classes). I am currently on my 3rd GSD, two of which I owned while living in Chicago for 10 years. I participate in Schutzhund and train my dogs to compete in the sport. 

That said...I think we can all agree that having a GSD in our general vicinity is a fantastic deterrent for anyone, whether on a walk in Wicker Park, Chicago or in our house in the rural woods of Wisconsin or in our car on a drive somewhere. I'm sure we all get a sense of calm knowing that the average petty-thief or thug will think twice when seeing or hearing our GSD. No one has disagreed with this so far.

*BUT*...I don't own my GSD because I _think_ that he will tear somebody's face off if they break into my house, and I definitely don't own my GSD because I am a single woman who USES A WHEELCHAIR and obviously could not defend myself against anyone that wanted to mug, rape, steal from me, etc. I own my GSD because he is an incredible, loyal, intelligent companion that I can work as a team member with in order to accomplish my goals in the sport of SchH, AKC obedience, etc. and who gives me a greater sense of purpose in life and leisure. 

I *DO OWN* a cellphone, dead bolted locked doors, mace, and COMMON SENSE in case someone didn't see my GSD as a deterrent and decided to break into my home or threaten my life in anyway. 

It is our job and duty to protect our animals, no matter the breed, because we bring them into this world (in one way or another) and we shouldn't expect them to comply with or force upon them the ridiculous duty of protecting, *life or limb*, our family members. These dogs ARE our family members, which is why we should be using our heads to equip ourselves with common sense in order to give ourselves the tools to use to protect or defend ourselves AND our dogs. 

And this goes for men and/or women (100 pounds or 300 pounds, gun or no gun, wheelchair or kung-fu mistress).


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Hillary_Plog said:


> Whether you agree with her or not, I applaud Emoore for initiating this topic so we can thoughtfully discuss it. It is important, as GSD owners and aficionados, to educate ourselves so that we may be better handlers in order to promote the breed to the best of our ability.
> 
> Here is my two cents.
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

Emoore, you come across with some crazy scenerios, who ever mentioned anything about the neighbors being used as human shields? Or getting shot or stabbed? You definitely take it to the extremes, and you not having any children kind of answers why you might come across being cold with some of your responses, and for the record I'm a single father wearing both hats, It's come natural for me, I have to be stern, and compasionate with my son, and now our Thor.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

This is where some of us part ways I suppose. It's the difference between people who are vegans, and people who don't have a problem with eating a hamburger. 

I own several different dogs, and some of them *are* expected to protect their charge with their very own lives. (*gasp* how cold, how cruel, how heartless..... yep!)

If a wolf get's into my sheeps pen, I expect my great Pyrenees to rip the wolves face off! 

You think "well, that's completely different, we are talking about german shephered attacking people, you are talking about another breed of dog completely attacking another animal." I think it's the same thing. 

If you call it animal exploitation....... then I'm guilty as charged.

All that being said, I wouldn't ever intentionally place my animals in harms way.... I don't think that anyone here would. But if push comes to shove, expect some show of force around here.


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

rjThor said:


> you not having any children kind of answers why you might come across being cold with some of your responses, and for the record I'm a single father wearing both hats, It's come natural for me, I have to be stern, and compasionate with my son, and now our Thor.


Children do not make someone magically compassionate, understanding, or selfless just look at all of the crappy examples of parents(more like DNA donors because the don't deserve the title of "parent") out there abusing and exploiting their children.

Emoore's childfree/less status has nothing to do with the conversation. Ever notice how folks seem much more happy about throwing children in someone's face and going "You don't understand anything or lack the necessary emotions because your don't have a child," particularly when they don't disagree. Which also goes back the that condesending attitude toward women I was talking about, implying that if a woman isn't a mother, she is somehow less than her child-ed counterparts. Please don't do that, it just makes you look less credible and like you're just grasping at straws now.




Davey Benson said:


> I own several different dogs, and some of them *are* expected to protect their charge with their very own lives. (*gasp* how cold, how cruel, how heartless..... yep!)
> 
> If a wolf get's into my sheeps pen, I expect my great Pyrenees to rip the wolves face off!
> 
> ...


I dunno, the german shepherd has been specialized so much, unless you specifically sought out a breeder who was breeding that type of dog and trained it for personal protection I wouldn't rely on it to protect. I don't Pyrenees' have had that issue(I know nothing of the breed), so a larger percent probably still hold that flock guardian temperament. Wouldn't call is exploitation, it's more about stacking the odds in your favor, ya know?


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Emoore said:


> The issue here is leaving an animal-- a dumb animal with no training, no opposable thumbs, no higher-order cognitive skills, no weapons besides the ones in his mouth (which are no match for what the bad guys are carrying)- "in charge" of protecting his wife. If you don't see how that's patronizing I can't help you.


It is difficult for me to understand why you post or am involved on this website if you feel this way about the breed (the dumb animal part).

Since you stated you don't have any children - could you possibly be missing the perspective and have lack of experience of dealing with the male/female/child bonding and intimacies of these relationships? Your perception of men wanting to protect, even if (in your opinion) it may be misguided, seems to be a negative thing. I see it as admirable. 

Many years ago I would probably support your statements, however there may be a defining moment in your life when you become very vulnerable due to illness or injury or some other situation and you will have to rely on someone else and put your trust into them. From then on I think you will be a little less harsh in your statements and change your perspective.

By the way, I don't know any families with GSD's (most of them in law enforcement) that have their GSD "in charge" of protecting their families. Although having one at home gives them more comfort than the absence of one.


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

Lucky for me Glacier, that I was brought up by great parents, to respect not just myself but life in general. I not once said me being a parent gave me anymore an advantage as oppossed to not having one, if you took that as an assumption, well you were wrong. The idea of me rather having my neighbors shot or stabbed was the issue I had with his response. For me I found it imature for a comment like that, and to refer to a child as lil Johnny well that was condenseding. It's great debate as far as the thread, but It just seems like all the other threads some folks take it to the extremes with their comments, but you are right about not all parents are equal, that I do agree with you, but only that. As far as my view about women, I respect and love them, for I was once carried in a womb for 9 months, and have been nurtured my whole life by one, my mother, but the standards for women as far as physical standards are not the same as a man, just look at the physical test for the military, the police dept., they are not built the same as men, and are not as physically strong as men. Nothing wrong with that, just a fact.


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

Davey Benson said:


> This is where some of us part ways I suppose. It's the difference between people who are vegans, and people who don't have a problem with eating a hamburger.
> 
> I own several different dogs, and some of them *are* expected to protect their charge with their very own lives. (*gasp* how cold, how cruel, how heartless..... yep!)
> 
> ...


Respectfully, you are comparing apples to oranges. Several people, including Emoore, have mentioned that it is obviously a different scenario altogether when talking about a PPD, livestock guardian dog, police service dog, etc. Dogs have long been used to perform specific tasks and no one has implied that to do so is "animal exploitation"...it's nice to hear that a Great Pyrenees is actually working and doing what they do best!


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

You wrote:


rjThor said:


> ...you not having any children kind of answers why you might come across being cold with some of your responses...


*You* are making assumptions about Emoore. You saying in your post that her being without a child is why she is coming across are 'cold.' If your 'respected' her, like the women you claim to then why are your judging her by her child status?

You then wrote:



rjThor said:


> for the record I'm a single father wearing both hats, It's come natural for me, I have to be stern, and compasionate with my son, and now our


*You* are contrasting yourself with Emoore, as if having a child automatically makes you 'compassionate' as opposed to 'cold'. This attitude is prevalent in society. Your previous post contradicts what your current post is saying. 




rjThor said:


> Lucky for me Glacier, that I was brought up by great parents, to respect not just myself but life in general. I not once said me being a parent gave me anymore an advantage as oppossed to not having one, if you took that as an assumption, well you were wrong. The idea of me rather having my neighbors shot or stabbed was the issue I had with his response. For me I found it imature for a comment like that, and to refer to a child as lil Johnny well that was condenseding. It's great debate as far as the thread, but It just seems like all the other threads some folks take it to the extremes with their comments, but you are right about not all parents are equal, that I do agree with you, but only that. As far as my view about women, I respect and love them, for I was once carried in a womb for 9 months, and have been nurtured my whole life by one, my mother, but the standards for women as far as physical standards are not the same as a man, just look at the physical test for the military, the police dept., they are not built the same as men, and are not as physically strong as men. Nothing wrong with that, just a fact.


Your feelings about your mother is irrelevant to this discussion. As for your loving women. Plenty of sexist men love 'their' women, heck plenty of abusive men claim they love their female counter parts as well. Claiming to love women is a moot point. 

Physically women and men are not the same. However this isn't about the physical characteristic of women and men. This is about social views that society has of men and women and how they are unequal. The attitude that women can't possibly protect themselves, the attitude that women can't be logical, the attitude that women don't know whats best for their own bodies and should leave this decision to men. This attitude is detrimental and will not bring about equal rights to both sexes.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

rjThor said:


> Emoore, you come across with some crazy scenerios, who ever mentioned anything about the neighbors being used as human shields? Or getting shot or stabbed?


 You said you'd rather your dog got shot or stabbed than your child. I said I'd rather the neighbors get shot or stabbed than my child too (if I had them) but it doesn't give me the right to plan to sacrifice them for my (or your) child. Just because you'd rather the dog get killed than your son, you shouldn't obtain one for that purpose. Hope that clears up the analogy. 



Gretchen said:


> It is difficult for me to understand why you post or am involved on this website if you feel this way about the breed (the dumb animal part).


Dumb = unable to speak. Thought everybody knew that.


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

I think a lot of the conflict in this thread stems from the assumption that all (or maybe just our) German shepherds will step up and protect their family, at the risk of being harmed themselves. Logically everyone is telling themselves "Well obviously not every single GSD out there is going to have the temperament and nerves to do this" but in the back of your mind you're probably thinking "But mine definitely will."

If you feel this way, I would suggest that you go out and meet with some PPD/other protection sport trainers. Ask them how many dogs actually have the correct foundation to do well in protection training. There are many tiers of reaction to a threat. And by threat, I mean real threat - a stranger holding a weapon, advancing on you and your dog with 100% intent to do YOU harm. Not the mailman delivering a package. Not someone sneaking through your backyard as a shortcut. Not someone wearing a funny hat and acting weird cause they're drunk but paying you no attention otherwise.

Some dogs when confronted with a threat will just panic and flee, maybe hide behind their handler.
Some dogs will give a few loud barks, maybe growl, hackle, but the instant the threat advances and shows the dog that he's not ****ing around, the dog will turn tail and flee.
Some dogs will actually lunge and try to bite or nip, but if challenged (say with a hit or kick or even some crazy yelling) will stop and flee.
And a very very small percentage of dogs will actually have the correct balance of confidence and nerves to take on the threat and engage him until the threat has been subdued or the situation is otherwise under control. (OF COURSE all of our dogs belong in this category, right?)

The point is, if your dog has received no protection training and has never been tested against a genuine threat, then you have no way of telling what your dog's reaction is going to be. You may *think* you know, based on his/her genetics or previous reactions to strangers (most likely a neutral stranger who you were not in any real danger from), but you just might be surprised. From your dog's point of view, it's easy to put on a big show of bravado when you're behind a fence or on a leash in familiar territory, with your master next to you, but if it comes down to your dog alone vs. a very angry, very serious man (or woman!) swinging a weapon while the rest of your family is scrambling up the stairs to protect the kids and hide, that courage might be a little harder to find. Might be easier to run after your family instead of standing your ground on your own. Even if your dogs has generations upon generations of world class, LEO working dog genetics behind them, so what? Dogs and puppies are not clones of their parents. You just don't know until you're put in that situation.

I think that's the main point some are trying to get across here. Not about how women are weak or anything about condescension or exploitation or what your child-bearing status has on your ability to form an opinion, although the thread has taken that turn. Just that most people who are on here arguing for "there's nothing wrong with assigning my dog with duty of protecting my family" don't actually know for sure if their dog will protect or not. So it's far more prudent to prepare for the worst (the situation in which your dog does not adequately protect) than to sit around and hope for the best (your dog actually is Rin Tin Tin reincarnated). You don't want to find yourself in a bad situation, halfway down **** creek, wishing you'd prepared better.


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

Also, this:

How To Have A Rational Discussion Thought Catalog

(Although people have been surprisingly civil and open-minded thus far. I'm impressed!)


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

Honestly, you guys(Emoore, Glacier) crack me up with your responses, once again assumptions are being made, but you are intitled to them, just like I am intitled to respond right back to them, It doesn't have to be as difficult as you'll make it. Anyways it was a good thread, but it's gotten way off base. I'm not about to fall into some crazy spinoff on a topic about how I view women, don't need to defend my views. I know who I truly am, and what I do in a daily basis, I'm blessed. Gretchen has some of the same views as I do as far as some of your responses, so I cant be way off if more than one has or see's your views as a lil distant or cold.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Yeah, very good discussion. It's always interesting to see how other people think, as long as we keep in mind the nature of internet communication is to obfuscate.


ETA: I just got a PM from somebody saying they got the feeling I didn't like them very much. I just want to say that just because we disagree on something over the internet, DOES NOT make us enemies or not-friends or mean we dislike or don't respect each other. Things sometimes get a little heated, but I respect every single person whose posted on this thread and we can still all be friends.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

wow. okay. i have to say that YES military, PD, fire department, basically every job that requires physical fitness health, has different reqs for men and woman. We're not built the same as men. HOWEVER!!!! that does NOT mean we're any less capable. Physically we may be weaker than men but throw in our mental capabilities and resourcefulness on short notice and we can be a pretty dangerous "easy prey". Does having our dogs around help us feel safer. Darn right it does. Do we NEED our dogs to protect us? nope. just because we're physically weaker than most men, doesnt mean we would lose a fight with one. I cant speak for the other women, but judging by some of the responses i've read, any intruder coming into my house (theirs) would have one heck of a fight on their hands and NOT from the dog(s).


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The dogs that have my indoor outdoor kennels, so they can come and go into my house or out in their kennels during the day are Babs and Odessa. Babs is five, and I have had her since birth, and put her through training in Rally and Obedience. Odessa is three. I have had her since the turn of the year. She is Schutzhund trained. 

If someone busted through my door and attacked me, I would put my money on Babs to get involved in it. I LOVE Odessa, and she let me take care of her pups, she lets everyone take her and handle her at the vets. I recently took her for grooming, she did not like the dryer, but was ok with the people. She listens to me good (I think her English comprehension is better than my German pronunciation). She is even bonded to me and HATES for me to pay ANY attention to Jenna (not Babs or Joy with whom she is perfectly ok). I just have a hard time picturing her going after anybody. 

If a man with a padded suit, bite sleeve, and baton came through my door, Babsy would probably say, "Oh, he-- No!" And Odie would probably leap the baby gate to get to him. 

Now to line up someone with a bite suit to test this theory....

I guess if some nutter comes into my home and attacks me, maybe my dogs will do more than bark, maybe not. I think that they would. If they got injured or killed protecting me from someone with evil intentions, yes I would feel terrible about that, but I would be grateful too. If she was successful in holding the guy off until I could get the gun loaded or call 911, or if we successfully got the guy to retreat and leave, that would be even better.

They are good for alerting, and they are great deterrants, if someone failed to be deterred, then I guess I would hope the dog would help me out in dealing with the situation. Since I have not trained the dog for this, I would not fault the dog for not doing it.


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

Emoore, I couldn't agree more with your last reply, just because we agree to disagree, doesn't make us enemies or not friends.


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## Bundash (Dec 5, 2010)

German Shepherd dogs are a working breed, last I checked. You may find different cultures viewing and employing dogs for various reasons-if it doesn't match your personal ideal as pets, children etc doesn't mean its wrong. The majority of working dogs are given high expectations, as they fulfill important roles in everyday life but It doesn't mean they are not loved or respected.

Yes, some people get a GSD to protect. It is a legitimate avenue to prepare a qualified dog for. I know how the average person saying," I got my dog to protect me/my family" etc makes one cringe due to unrealistic expectations or lack of professional training , but there is some truth to that. I'm sure it's also not the ONLY defense they rely on- its simply part of the equation.

Every situation is different. 

Personal note: My family is from Hamburg, Germany. My parents have a GSD that they flew from Germ. to the United States. He is a SchH3 and used for personal protection. He is an amazing animal, driven, loyal and incredibly intelligent. He works all day long in the house and property doing what he was bred to do. He is loved and considered a family member, but make no mistake he is a weapon. Just one of the many forms available at the house, including firearms, mace, self defense classes etc. They have the trainer come and do mock sessions outside the property with them on walks , in the house etc and the dog has no regular " I don't feel like it" time nor does he just decide to give kisses to intruders. If a gardener uses the wrong door, he is on them like white lightening, waiting for the command. A switch is flipped inside them just like a trigger is pulled on a gun. Watching him sweep the house on command for intruders gives me goosebumps ( the trainer had someone hide in a room unknown to us or the dog while we took him out for a drive-he located the hider in 10 seconds). My parents live in a shady area of South Florida and have several documented cases in the media regarding trouble with the russian mafia. My mother is often alone during the daytime, so the dog has been their for her the whole way through.


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

rjThor said:


> Honestly, you guys(Emoore, Glacier) crack me up with your responses, once again assumptions are being made, but you are intitled to them, just like I am intitled to respond right back to them, It doesn't have to be as difficult as you'll make it. Anyways it was a good thread, but it's gotten way off base. I'm not about to fall into some crazy spinoff on a topic about how I view women, don't need to defend my views. I know who I truly am, and what I do in a daily basis, I'm blessed. Gretchen has some of the same views as I do as far as some of your responses, so I cant be way off if more than one has or see's your views as a lil distant or cold.


To be honest I don't believe you are reading my responses, you seem to be just glancing over it and picking out what you want to see, but that's alright. I'm not writing for you, though I think you're taking this a little to personal. I'm responding about what you *wrote*, I don't remember saying "rjThor is...," yet you're making it all about you. For the record I don't care about who you are, I'm responding to your posts. I was hoping for a debate but you can't seem to get past yourself.

You talk about how wrong and 'cold' we are for making assumptions and then make your own it's hypocritical. But hey, you're entertaining me also, so it works out for both of us.  

I dunno immediately dismissing someone's view is pretty 'cold' of yourself(you seem to like using that word) and pretty disrespectful. 

P.S. Just because someone else agrees with you doesn't mean you are right. Look at all the people who believe people without children are inherently unhappy or that black people are inherently violent. Popular opinion doesn't equal fact.


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## webzpinner (Mar 7, 2011)

It's so funny, tho, with the 30+ pages of posts, no one took the #1 consideration... it's not how protective the dog is, or how kick-butt the woman is, but the actual #1 consideration is how prepared/competant the intruder is. Most criminals are cowards, and want the easiest target possible, or will study the situation to make the easiest "hit" possible. That's why for my house, we have the dog for barking (Jake wouldn't last 1 second against the weakest intruder!), the whole-house alarm for broken glass, and close-quarters weapon for the potential of an intruder brave enough to get thru the first two. My neighbors, however, have none of the above, so they are muuuuuch better targets than I am. Plus they park their car outside, making themselves a better target. 

Where Jake "Earns" his keep, so to speak, is when we take him for walks, or have him play out front with us. neighbors see him, his size, and his defensive "urrfs" whenever anyone walks near our house. Neighbors speak to each other, and EVERYONE knows our house as the house with the "bear" or "wolf" etc. Almost all my neighbors have pits or chihuahuas, but something about a GSD just commands neighborhood respect in my area.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So the best thing is to move close to better targets?

Actually, my parents have Cujo. 

The neighbors across the street had no dog. 

They were robbed. 

They got a dog, a chocolate labrador. 

Have not heard of any more problems.


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## JS_280 (Apr 6, 2011)

We can all rest easy...I've found the perfect compromise...


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Now THAT'S a personal protection dog!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

JS_280 said:


> We can all rest easy...I've found the perfect compromise...


 
You certainly have! LMAO!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

we once rented a house in the Wilmington, DE area for 1 year. The neighborhood had a BIG rash of teenager breakins all around our house during the year. We had two GSD's during the year and people would move out of the way when we walked them even though they were very friendly and both were show dogs so were good around people.

The day after we moved out, the house was broken into by the teenage group and trashed.

The 2 dogs were a most effective deterrent evidently. 

the average breakin person is going to look for the easiest target. True that a pro could take a house with a dog pretty easily, but even they will pick the easy target if they can.

Dogs are a great warning and visible deterrent (for everyone!).


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

JS_280 said:


> We can all rest easy...I've found the perfect compromise...


My new Wallpaper!!! You rock!! :help:


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## Bristol (Apr 14, 2011)

GS are great guarding dogs the are one of the BEST guarding dogs they have an extremely strong bite this is a good dog for you!


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

JS_280 said:


> I tell my wife she's beautiful...but I still wouldn't mess with her...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


JS_280, are you a fellow ARFCOMER?


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Glacier said:


> Stubbornness goes both ways you know. Look at it from a logical point, an animal cannot protect you any better than you can protect yourself. Folks come on here asking or talking about how they want their untrained dog to protect their family.
> 
> Yes, dogs are a deterrent(which doesn't mean the dog will actually engage), but so are cameras, heck a sign in front of your house saying "Protected by 'insert company' security," is a deterrent. The only thing absolute if it comes down to it you need to be able to protect yourself, or at the very least have an alternate escape route and a way to contact the authorities. Getting a dog without knowing how to actually protect yourself if the need arise is a waste of time, money, and lives if someone gets killed. So the whole "Need do to protect the wife and kid!!," while well intentioned is pointless.
> 
> Also if my issue within this thread has nothing to do with the dog subject, but more to do with the condescending attitude toward women. We can protect ourselves, we have to in a world where 1 in 4 women(taken from the Bureau of Statistics) is sexually assaulted at some point in her life and 84% of the women who are raped knew their assailants. Learn to protect yourselves ladies, your husband, boyfriend, or dog will not be with you every waking second, and please be safe.


Seriously? I've got a short _logical _story to counter your _logical _point. Years ago, I was at the ranch working cattle with my dog (blue heeler). I was on foot in the middle of the pasture when the bull decided he'd had enough of my antics and charged me. At that point, I was completely helpless and running for my life. My dog, realizing that I was in trouble, attacked that bull with a violence that I have rarely seen since. If that dog hadn't put herself in harms way for me, I probably would not be here typing this now. My dog was only 45 lbs and not much of a visual deterrent and that bull was around 1200 lbs, do you honestly think a man (or woman) could have been as effective? My point is this dog was never trained in protection but she did it anyway and did it alot better than I could have in this particular situation. I know this story is a far cry from a home invasion scenario but the same principle applies and I never doubted that she would have reacted the same way towards a thug trying to harm my family. Will Kain instinctively protect his family if needed? I dunno, but it's comforting for me to think so.

Another thing, I never said anywhere in any of my posts that I was placing my family's protection _solely_ on my untrained dog because my wife (as a female) is too incompetent/weak to pull a trigger, swing a bat, make a phone call, or make a decision, which has somehow become the popular belief in this thread and I'm not sure how that happened. One person can read one word out of context, post an implied response, and the wrong message is reverberated for the next 34 pages. 

It's funny how these threads morph into something completely different than what they started out as.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Shoot, I'd be dead 50 times over at the hands (hooves?) of cattle when I was a kid if hadn't been for my dad's border collie.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

RazinKain said:


> Will Kain instinctively protect his family if needed? I dunno, but it's comforting for me to think so.
> 
> Another thing, I never said anywhere in any of my posts that I was placing my family's protection _solely_ on my untrained dog because my wife (as a female) is too incompetent/weak to pull a trigger, swing a bat, make a phone call, or make a decision, which has somehow become the popular belief in this thread and I'm not sure how that happened. One person can read one word out of context, post an implied response, and the wrong message is reverberated for the next 34 pages.
> 
> It's funny how these threads morph into something completely different than what they started out as.


Good post. I had a feeling your wife wasn't tied to a chair when you left for the day.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Obviously she's chained in the basement. . .


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Obviously she's chained in the basement. . .


LOL, hadn't thought of that.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Obviously she's chained in the basement. . .


Actually, her barefoot and pregnant self is shackled to the kitchen sink doing the dishes, and she'd better have my supper made and a cold beer waiting for me when I walk through the door tonight. j/k


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

RazinKain said:


> Actually, her barefoot and pregnant self is shackled to the kitchen sink doing the dishes, and she'd better have my supper made and a cold beer waiting for me when I walk through the door tonight. j/k


why do I have the feeling that you might joke, but she'd kick your butt if you tried it?? 

seriously, no one thinks that women are less capable then men. It's just sometimes you need an early warning system and a distraction to give you those extra seconds. 2 heads are always better than one, even if one is a dog


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Dainerra said:


> seriously, no one thinks that women are less capable then men.


Maybe no one on this thread. I've been one some fitness-related forums where the things men say about women behind the anonymity of their keyboard would curl your hair.


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## JS_280 (Apr 6, 2011)

RazinKain said:


> JS_280, are you a fellow ARFCOMER?


Yep, just haven't been over there in awhile. I tend to frequent different forums at different times...AR and GlockTalk, among others. My wife and I are getting a GSD somewhere around the end of June so I'm trying to learn all I can. Being a fellow ARFCOM'ER though...I just couldn't avoid a good self-defense topic.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

JS_280 said:


> Yep, just haven't been over there in awhile. I tend to frequent different forums at different times...AR and GlockTalk, among others. My wife and I are getting a GSD somewhere around the end of June so I'm trying to learn all I can. Being a fellow ARFCOM'ER though...I just couldn't avoid a good self-defense topic.


JS_280

A little off topic, but here's a pic of me and my son posing with one of our builds. We raise'em right, down here in Big County.


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

RazinKain:

That kid is a handsome little lion with TEXAN written all over his face. We like Texas. But speaking of ARFCOM, do they have any weapons that can shoot at certain internet threads and kill 'em dead? A few of us in this forum wouldn't mind gettin our hands on one of those. LOL!!!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

If you stop posting, the thread will die. Sooooooo. . . . .. stop posting.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Emoore said:


> If you stop posting, the thread will die. Sooooooo. . . . .. stop posting.


For real. Its hilarious when people post stuff like "this thread needs to die."

Well, it won't anytime soon if you keep bumping it.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

:bump:

:rofl: I couldn't resist


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

:bump:

/Thread


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> :bump:
> 
> :rofl: I couldn't resist


I was thinking of doing the same thing. Beat me to it.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Oh, BTW........Bump! :bump:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So, are we killing it, die thread die; or raising it from the dead, Live! @#$% you!


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

I think everyone just got tired of :headbang:. Was a very hot topic for a while though.


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

:rip: Goodbye thread. Run free at the Bridge. Vaya con Dios.:rip:


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