# Leave It, without a clicker



## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

I am working on training leave it with Ammo. I found some basic videos on it, most use a clicker. When I started training Ammo I did not use a clicker. He is very good with basic sit, down, stay, and so on. All of these he has learned without a clicker or food being involved. I usually always use praise as a reward for good behavior, which has always worked very good for him. 

With leave it, food and the clicker has been introduced. It took a matter of seconds for him to realize that when the clicker goes of he gets food. He is perfect up until he hears the click, after that he will flip out. He becomes very push and nosey to find his treat, and the new action taught is thrown out the window. When I take the food and clicker away he is back to himself, calm and attentive. 

My question is, how do I train leave it without a clicker to mark the behavior? Also how can I train it without the food reward? Any tips would really help. 


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

OUbrat79 said:


> With leave it, food and the clicker has been introduced. It took a matter of seconds for him to realize that when the clicker goes of he gets food. He is perfect up until he hears the click, after that he will flip out. He becomes very push and nosey to find his treat, and the new action taught is thrown out the window. When I take the food and clicker away he is back to himself, calm and attentive.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'm a little confused. You request a behavior, he provides it, you mark the good behavior with the clicker and you reward with a treat. Right? He shouldn't have to 'find' his treat. You should provide the treat as soon as you utilize the clicker. Timing is everthing.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

You can say 'yes', but really you're just replacing one thing with another. Once the dog is getting the concept, you can start to phase out the food reward, but initially, you probably have to be close to him to reward quickly.

You might work on how he takes his treats ('nicely') as a separate exercise, so he's not getting pushy.


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

Lilie said:


> I'm a little confused. You request a behavior, he provides it, you mark the good behavior with the clicker and you reward with a treat. Right? He shouldn't have to 'find' his treat. You should provide the treat as soon as you utilize the clicker. Timing is everthing.


It's hard to explain. I am usually very prompt with the reward, handing it the second the clicker goes off. The problem is he will break sit or jump at me when the clicker goes off, even with the treat right there. It's like the clicker is permission to act like a dork. 


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Ok. What is the object that you are requesting your pup to 'leave'?


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

Lilie said:


> Ok. What is the object that you are requesting your pup to 'leave'?


Right now it's food. I'm working with him being a therapy dog and one of the big things is leave it. Because of the idea of pills and such on the floor. Also they don't want the dogs taking food from the patients. 


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Since you want that focus/attention when learning ... what you see as annoying is the DRIVE and focus you want WHEN TRAINING A NEW BEHAVIOR. It shouldn't matter that he's loving the treats (though you can teach a gentle if he's drawing blood) cause what you are TEACHING is the 'leave it' and if he's getting that then the method is working.

Later you start to 'fade' the clicking/treating with random reinforcement (vital to NOT go from all treats all the time to no treats ever) and then fade to treats rarely and more verbals for praise.

The point of using a clicker is to get our dogs 'in the game' to learn NEW things. And have to say you clearly have a wonderful dog and have started out the steps properly.

But you may want to backtrack yourself for just a bit to make sure you get all the steps/reasons for clicker training and not just the ones explaining teaching a specific behavior. Using a clicker is about us learning an entirely new way to teach our dogs and FIRST we need to really understand our part as the teacher and then go thru the steps with 'the student'. 

Clicker Training Lessons -

Dog Training | Karen Pryor Clicker Training

When teaching something new I don't want my dog 'calm and attentive' I want my dogs EXCITED and attentive. I want my dogs to love to learn so much they can't wait to learn and purposely add the tug toys and yummy treats to get that excitement. The fact you are getting that with clicker training and never have in the past shows (to me) that you've finally really engaged your dog in the training process more than you were ever able to in the past. And that's a GOOD thing you just need to keep molding and managing to refine and continue on this great learning path.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

So. He is sitting in front of you - you have a piece of food on the floor by him. You tell him to 'leave it' - You might have to cup the food to not allow him to grab it. The moment he looks away from the food, you mark the behavior and YOU pick up the food - or you give him another piece of food - but not the object of food that you've requested for him to 'leave'...right?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Whew...MaggieRoseLee! I was hoping you'd jump in!!! OP - MaggieRoseLee was the one who gave advice to me when I taught 'Leave it'!!!!!! She's gooooood!!!!


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

Lilie said:


> So. He is sitting in front of you - you have a piece of food on the floor by him. You tell him to 'leave it' - You might have to cup the food to not allow him to grab it. The moment he looks away from the food, you mark the behavior and YOU pick up the food - or you give him another piece of food - but not the object of food that you've requested for him to 'leave'...right?


Right. I usually start the session with him leaving the food that is in my closed hand, then my open hand, then the floor or out of my kids hands. I always reward with something that other than what he has been told to leave. 


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Since you want that focus/attention when learning ... what you see as annoying is the DRIVE and focus you want WHEN TRAINING A NEW BEHAVIOR. It shouldn't matter that he's loving the treats (though you can teach a gentle if he's drawing blood) cause what you are TEACHING is the 'leave it' and if he's getting that then the method is working.
> 
> Later you start to 'fade' the clicking/treating with random reinforcement (vital to NOT go from all treats all the time to no treats ever) and then fade to treats rarely and more verbals for praise.
> 
> ...


I have never thought of it that way. I will keep going with the clicker and food and see how he works with it. I'm used to a calm focus when we are training. 


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

You may also want to start adding the clicker into other new behaviors so that he's really linking the training with the click/treat and it's more normal (and he knows more treats are coming during the session) so he's not SO over the top EXCITED. Though, like I said, you want a balance with the love/excitement/WANTING to be with you to learn something new with his ability to keep his brain to learn (though he seems to be learning the behavior like a ROCK STAR GSD!).


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

OUbrat79 said:


> I have never thought of it that way. I will keep going with the clicker and food and see how he works with it. I'm used to a calm focus when we are training.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Have you had a chance to see ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ime-owner/162230-engagement-key-training.html ? Kind of explains that once we get that high energy LOVE for learning with us, we can really teach our dogs anything. And it sounds like your dog has the potential.

Not saying it makes training 'easy' for us. What is does is make us MUCH better trainers with a dog that can't wait to be with us and trying to figure out what the heck is next


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Have you had a chance to see ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ime-owner/162230-engagement-key-training.html ? Kind of explains that once we get that high energy LOVE for learning with us, we can really teach our dogs anything. And it sounds like your dog has the potential.
> 
> Not saying it makes training 'easy' for us. What is does is make us MUCH better trainers with a dog that can't wait to be with us and trying to figure out what the heck is next


I will check it out.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

I have never used a clicker. A trainer taught "leave it" by throwing something behind him on the floor. (a treat) and when the dog went for it blocked his way saying leave it. As soon as the dog looked up at the trainer he gave a treat with saying good. 

Once the dog stops trying to get around you, he stands aside throwing the treat and saying leave it. 

It worked really well, I could throw pieces of steak on the floor and give the "leave it command" and the dog would not touch it. 

It also worked with Riley around other dogs. He was a bit dog aggressive until he got to know the dog. I would see he was going to react and before he did, say leave it and walk by and he did not growl or bark at the dog. Sometimes I missed the signs, but he still came back under control with a leash pop and leave it command. I did not take him unleashed around dogs he did not know.


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

MaggieRoseLee here is proof that I can in fact train something, lol. 
http://youtu.be/_MPflJL85W4


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