# Difficulty selecting a new puppy food



## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

Hi all

If all goes well we will be expecting a new puppy coming home soon, a male long coat GSD
I have been trying to figure out what puppy food we will start out with
I dont think we can make the financial and time investment to go raw diet now, but maybe 1-2 years down the road we may want to transition to a full raw diet

I have been looking at Fromm's large breed puppy
Only thing is our breeder's contract recommends a NOT grain free kibble (which makes sense at this point) but recommends specifically meeting WSAVA guidelines which is only Iams, Eukanuba, Hills Science Diet, Royal Canin and Purina - i've gone through the ingredients for all these and I'm not really a huge fan. What do you recommend?

Here are our top 3 choices at this time:
Fromm Large Breed Puppy about $55/30 lb bag
Wellness Complete Health Large Breed Puppy about $60/30 lb bag
Purina Pro Plan Development Large Breed Puppy about $45/30 lb bag

This meeting WSAVA guidelines is tripping me up if Purina is really the one one that meets that 'criteria'


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

Fromm has both grain free large breed puppy AND grain inclusive large breed puppy. My belief is that it is a better food than the other brands you mentioned.

My vet recommended Royal Canin and my dog was unbelievably itchy on it. It is loaded with corn. Vets like what vets recommend and sell (science diet); They are not necessarily experts on nutrition. WSAVA doesn't mean much.

Many on this board feed Fromm with great results.
Fromm Gold is the grain inclusive kibble. Fromm Heartland is the grain free.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

Absolutely stay away from grain free! Purina Pro Plan Sport all life stages.


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## Cadfael (Jun 17, 2020)

A friend, dog trainer and owner of the center I take Belle and Duke too, got me started using Purina One Large Breed Puppy. I feed the dry and also cans.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Jorski said:


> Fromm has both grain free large breed puppy AND grain inclusive large breed puppy. My belief is that it is a better food than the other brands you mentioned.
> 
> My vet recommended Royal Canin and my dog was unbelievably itchy on it. It is loaded with corn. Vets like what vets recommend and sell (science diet); They are not necessarily experts on nutrition. WSAVA doesn't mean much.
> 
> ...


Tell that to the people who lost their dogs to DCM!!! 

Here is the Facebook group, you can tell them what fools they are for not feeding grain-free & Boutique diets...smh. Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM) in Dogs


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

Tell them what? I am well aware of DCM. I simply pointed out that Fromm makes grain inclusive food also.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Heidigsd said:


> Tell that to the people who lost their dogs to DCM!!!
> 
> Here is the Facebook group, you can tell them what fools they are for not feeding grain-free & Boutique diets...smh. Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM) in Dogs


So I am guessing you missed the recent report that found no link to grain free diets? Also might want to check who is profiting from all of this. 
Either way, @LandosMommy is your breeders contract requiring you to feed certain foods? Because I would have and issue with that. What if the food becomes unavailable or what if your dog does poorly on it?


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Sabis mom said:


> So I am guessing you missed the recent report that found no link to grain free diets? Also might want to check who is profiting from all of this.
> Either way, @LandosMommy is your breeders contract requiring you to feed certain foods? Because I would have and issue with that. What if the food becomes unavailable or what if your dog does poorly on it?


Guess again, I haven't missed anything!  You might want to check who's profiting from all of this.

Many dogs are dead and dying and I'm interested to find out what is causing this, not interested in the spin constantly coming from this message board! Many of these dogs improved after a diet change alone!

I challenge anybody who knows so much to go over to the FB group and read some of these heartbreaking stories. If you still want to feed grain-free & Boutique diets after that, knock yourself out!









CONTROVERSY SWIRLS AROUND JOURNAL’S NON-DISCLOSURE OF CONFLICTS IN DCM ARTICLE. Journal CEO says inquiry is underway.


Controversy is swirling around a prominent science journal’s article that defends the pet food industry against charges that one of its products endangers canines.




thecaninereview.com


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Jorski said:


> Tell them what? I am well aware of DCM. I simply pointed out that Fromm makes grain inclusive food also.


This ➡ "My belief is that it is a better food than the other brands you mentioned. Many on this board feed Fromm with great results. "

You just conveniently left out the part about DCM!


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

My pups eat Purina Pro Plan or Fromms Gold Large Breed Puppy. The breeders both used Pro Plan. 
We supplement with raw meat-- mostly chicken, turkey, sirloin. 

One pup will eat either. The other seems to slightly prefer the taste of Pro Plan.


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

*Heidigsd*
Show me any evidence that Fromm grain inclusive food is involved in DCM cases. You obviously don't like Fromm. Make your case.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Heidigsd said:


> Guess again, I haven't missed anything!  You might want to check who's profiting from all of this.
> 
> Many dogs are dead and dying and I'm interested to find out what is causing this, not interested in the spin constantly coming from this message board! Many of these dogs improved after a diet change alone!
> 
> ...


Sweetie you need to take your agenda to your own thread. You aren't helping the OP at all. Advising someone that there is a possible issue that they may want to investigate is one thing. But this is ridiculous.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

...... or just feed Victor Dog and Puppy!


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Sabis mom said:


> Sweetie you need to take your agenda to your own thread. You aren't helping the OP at all. Advising someone that there is a possible issue that they may want to investigate is one thing. But this is ridiculous.


I'm not your Sweetie! I don't have an agenda but many people on this board have one, especially when it comes to diet.


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

Heidigsd said:


> I don't have an agenda but many people on this board have one, especially when it comes to diet.



That is ridiculous. I would love to hear what you think my "agenda" is? Pssst....I will let you in on a secret....I don't have one.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Jorski said:


> That is ridiculous. I would love to hear what you think my "agenda" is? Pssst....I will let you in on a secret....I don't have one.


Wasn't talking about you!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Heidigsd said:


> Wasn't talking about you!


@Jorski she apparently has an issue with me. 
Sweetie was a polite form of address. Given I am an older woman from a rural background. 
You have added nothing to this thread, given no suggestions, probably scared the OP off and generally behaved like a fanatic. 
Not sure why or what agenda you think anyone has. Have a great day though.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Okay you guys. Dog food is a hot topic. 

You all would be horrified to learn that I’ve been feeding Scarlet Pro Plan for quite a while now. I switched her from Victor. Once the formula change happened, her coat went south. She refuses to eat Fromms. My handler said just put her on Pro Plan, so I did. This dog’s coat has never (ever) been this nice, and she has tons of energy, and just generally looks better. 

Over the years, I’ve fed raw, and high end kibble like Orijen, and everything in between. Point is, feed what works for your dog.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

We tried Agis on Fromm grain-inclusive (due to DCM). He became less and less enthusiastic and getting him to eat even 2 meals a day at 5 months old was nigh-impossible. 

While on vacation we ran out of food (whoops) and went into town - the store didn't have Fromm's, so we got Acana, which we'd fed before. Agis loved it - like, LOVED. That was 4 months ago and he still loves it. We supplement powdered taurine to be safe.

As our vets (big grain proponents) said, sometimes, the best food is the one they'll eat.

Luc was fed grain-free (kibble or raw) from around 4.5 yrs old to 15.5 yrs old when we let him go. 11 years isn't a bad run.


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## Stuckey (Feb 1, 2020)

Diamond Naturals is what Mia started out on. It’s affordable and the vet said a pretty healthy brand.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Jorski said:


> *Heidigsd*
> Show me any evidence that Fromm grain inclusive food is involved in DCM cases. You obviously don't like Fromm. Make your case.


I'm sure you know how to search for any information you are interested in? I already posted a great Facebook group...start there!

Let's just cut the crap, this comment told me everything I need to know about you "Vets like what vets recommend and sell (science diet); They are not necessarily experts on nutrition. WSAVA doesn't mean much."

This constant vet bashing is really old and I'd like to know what makes you an EXPERT in nutrition...make your case! Some more info from those clueless vets! Nutritional-DCM - Blue Springs Animal Hospital


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles | Frequently Asked Questions


The Dog Food Advisor's most frequently asked questions about AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles




www.dogfoodadvisor.com






https://wsava.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Selecting-the-Best-Food-for-your-Pet.pdf



Just in case the OP has not run away by now, I thought I would post these links. 

Everything else aside the best food for your dog is one you can get, one you can afford, one your dog will eat and one that YOUR dog does well one.
By get, I mean preferably local because as we have all found out lately crap happens.
By afford I mean without not paying your electric bill or going on a Ichiban diet.
By eat I mean without you needing to bury it in something else to trick Fido into eating.
By does well on I mean healthy coat, clean teeth and skin, good body weight and firm stool.


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## AbbyandMaya (Jun 22, 2020)

LandosMommy said:


> Hi all
> 
> If all goes well we will be expecting a new puppy coming home soon, a male long coat GSD
> I have been trying to figure out what puppy food we will start out with
> ...


If you have Instagram, look at @ninathemalinois page. she talks about kibble/raw feeding all the time and will recommend food brands if you can’t afford raw.
From my experience, look into Nature’s Logic, Orijen and Victor


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

MOD WARNING
_I'm confident you all know that further sniping at each other will result in time outs and a closed thread.Share your facts and opinions politely._


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## iBite (Jun 24, 2020)

Due to the spectacular level of inbreeding of domestic dogs, it’s pretty much impossible to predict what their digestive system will and will not tolerate. You can read all the studies and reports you want, but the bottom line is if your dog doesn’t tolerate it, it isn’t “good” food. All living creatures need certain nutrients, if your dog can get those nutrients and their system tolerates whatever else is in that food, it’s “good” food. Ever notice that people who get their mixed breed dogs from anywhere tend to recommend whatever grocery food is the cheapest and has the prettiest bag? Or stray dogs in certain countries look so healthy? That’s exactly why. Mixed breed dogs are more genetically diverse and tend to tolerate whatever they’re fed.


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## Stuckey (Feb 1, 2020)

Heidigsd said:


> I'm sure you know how to search for any information you are interested in? I already posted a great Facebook group...start there!
> 
> Let's just cut the crap, this comment told me everything I need to know about you "Vets like what vets recommend and sell (science diet); They are not necessarily experts on nutrition. WSAVA doesn't mean much."
> 
> This constant vet bashing is really old and I'd like to know what makes you an EXPERT in nutrition...make your case! Some more info from those clueless vets! Nutritional-DCM - Blue Springs Animal Hospital


Most vets know what they are talking about. And Jorski never said he was an expert, maybe he just pays attention to what is in his dogs food.

I never heard of Fromms before now so I just stick to what I know my pup likes.


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## Bree0125 (Jun 27, 2020)

I had to let my dog tell me via her stool... I am using Half and half diamonds natural large breed puppy and Victors grain free. Some GSDs tend to have finicky tummy’s so just like people let the tummy tell you. People will have tons of opinions I just watched the POO!!! Lol


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## AbbyandMaya (Jun 22, 2020)

Bree0125 said:


> I had to let my dog tell me via her stool... I am using Half and half diamonds natural large breed puppy and Victors grain free. Some GSDs tend to have finicky tummy’s so just like people let the tummy tell you. People will have tons of opinions I just watched the POO!!! Lol


Obviously never feed your dog something that is clearly causing them an upset stomach. There is a difference between a good food and food that is bad but your dog likes. There are many, many bad foods out there that, even though your dog likes them, they still are not good and probably don’t meet your dog’s nutritional needs.
That being said, if you are feeding a good food and your dog is having an upset stomach over it, it would be worthwhile to list reasons as to why this food isn’t agreeing with your dog. this could be you switching onto the food too quickly, maybe an ingredient that your dog is allergic to, etc.
In that case, find a different GOOD food that won’t do the same, or talk to a nutritionist since some vets will feed you lies.


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

Well, they say no good deed goes unpunished. Try to help the original poster and you get attacked. 
I never put myself out as an expert on dog nutrition. I do read a lot, and have read and learned a lot about it. I also have spent time consulting with an actual dog nutritionist when choosing my dog's food.
I'm still waiting for any direct evidence of Fromm grain inclusive food having a link to DCM. 
My position on the subject is that there MAY be a link between certain grain free foods with potatoes and legumes and an increased occurance of DCM. That is as far as the FDA has gone, and as far as I will go.
Having said that, I wouldn't take the chance on grain free food. 
So, I feed grain inclusive. I happen to have chosen Fromm as have a number of people on this forum.
I'm pretty sure that I didn't engage in any vet bashing. I'll just say by way of analogy that there are a countless number of human diet books written by doctors that are patently unhealthy.
I wish the OP good luck in his choice and there is a certain poster on this thread that has a lot to say, but not much to offer.
Over and out.


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