# Young male and females in heat



## Datura (Feb 16, 2018)

So I found out the other day that Dean (a year old, not neutered because he is going to be a show dog) Acts like a total butt face when faced with a female in heat. 
How did I find this out you may ask? 
Funny story. 
We took a nice walk to a local park. He was doing great until we got near the park and he started paying extra attention to spots on the ground. Sniffing, licking, teeth chattering. So I knew it was a female dog pee (He does the zone out sniff and lick with my fixed female bull dog at home *Eye roll*). We were down by the water when I notice a guy walking a bully breed mix our way. I put Dean into a down, and he he is good. Until they get right next to us, and Dean gets a whiff of her. Suddenly he starts this high pitched screaming, and pitching a fit. I get him to keep his down, but he is so loud, and he is arguing with me about having to keep his down, in between his high pitched screams. The poor guy with the bully mix says "sorry, she's in heat, and practically runs away. His dog acted perfectly fine, and super well behaved of course. 
Did I mention the park is full of guys either heading out to fish, or fishing already? 
They are all staring at me like I am killing my dog. I was so embarrassed. 
So I have my sister who has an unspayed female bull terrier, sending me some scent pads the next time she is in heat. My question is how exactly can I use these to train my little butt head. Do I just have them where he can smell them and train him around them, or do I get him to leave them? Or? It's been forever since I've had a male dog, and that was a Yorkie. If he got sassy I just picked him up and carted him off lol


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Seriously, you want to teach your dog to somehow ignore his nature? Good luck with that! That your dog held his position, in spite of anything else he was feeling and smelling is a HUGE victory and a HUGE compliment to his training!

Lighten up, and celebrate the fact that he held, in spite of what nature was telling him was much more important! Some dogs will get beyond that with age, and others never will...

It's similar to asking how to make a dog act like a cat, or a horse. Some will with enough training, and others will never do it no matter what you do!


----------



## Datura (Feb 16, 2018)

tim_s_adams said:


> Seriously, you want to teach your dog to somehow ignore his nature? Good luck with that! That your dog held his position, in spite of anything else he was feeling and smelling is a HUGE victory and a HUGE compliment to his training!
> 
> Lighten up, and celebrate the fact that he held, in spite of what nature was telling him was much more important! Some dogs will get beyond that with age, and others never will...
> 
> It's similar to asking how to make a dog act like a cat, or a horse. Some will with enough training, and others will never do it no matter what you do!


Considering that he is going to be going to shows and dog sports where there are going to be females in heat, and I am going to need him to have some sort of manners. Yes. Yes I do want to teach him that he can't scream when he doesn't get to mount a female. 
I know it can be done, I am asking for advice to make sure I do it right.


----------



## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

OP.....I think that most knowledgeable people who have a clue which way the wind blows....will not bring their female in heat to any event where they may encounter intact males....the responsibility of doing the "right" thing lies with the owner of the female in heat not with you or any owner of an intact male......yes I know that here in the real world all you have to do is read many of the posts on any online forum ( pick a forum subject ) or just watch daily news to know that the world is full of clueless....inexperienced or just don't care folks....however I think you'll find MOST folks involved in the show ring won't bring a female in heat to a show......


I agree with Tim --you'll never teach an intact male to ignore a female in heat....it just won't happen....quickest way to get some "battle scars" or worse on a male...is drop a female in heat in the middle of a group of males....you never know what you may encounter in a park situation-- an owner may OR may not know their girl is in heat ( hard to believe-but true )...but most "show" folks will know better......


----------



## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

I agree that show folks will not bring a female in heat out in public. For one thing, most females will blow their coats when they are in heat, so they aren't in the best condition anyway. Showing them would be a waste of time and money.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

There are always bitches in season at dog shows. Working on focus exercises with distractions are important with good rewards. In nose work class females in heat were one of the distractions that were close by and there were mostly intact males in the classroom- tensions were high on those days but all the dogs powered through.


----------



## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

Evidently things have changed since I was showing my dogs. Or perhaps these are different types of shows? It used to be understood that people would not bring females in heat to dog shows. Times change I suppose, and not always for the better.


----------



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Whoa. There are ALWAYS bitches in heat at dog shows. It’s very common. At performance events, no. Conformation, yes. When you are showing a bitch, you have to take advantage of anytime your dog has coat. When mine are in heat, they usually blow their coat about 6 weeks before, and have already grown it back. You just need to warn the judge before they examine your dog (messiness). Also it’s good manners to let others know around you.


----------



## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

Steel's sire is workable while around females in heat. My guess is he has been corrected enough times by the female (and possibly breeder) to know when the behavior is acceptable or not. Heck, my breeder didn't even know Steel's dam was in season (silent heat) until she found them tied behind the bushes. They hung out supervised for the whole day prior to the event with no signs from either partakers of the scandal. 

Maybe a breeder that has a stud at their home could offer advice?


I wouldn't say the owner of the BIS was irresponsible to bring his bitch out, in season, to a public space...but it is not something I personally would do unless it were a controlled environment where they are allowed (say trial or show).


----------



## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

Thanks dogfaeries for your post. Evidently, I need a refresher course in dog showing! Sorry for posting inaccurate information, and I appreciate your correction.


----------



## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

Pawsed said:


> Evidently things have changed since I was showing my dogs. Or perhaps these are different types of shows? It used to be understood that people would not bring females in heat to dog shows. Times change I suppose, and not always for the better.



I agree times must really have changed......30 something years ago....AKC event here in Richmond VA---I remember someone being asked to put a female in heat back in the RV they came in....this was a confirmation/agility event....the female in question was entered in confirmation.....the couple in question had come from out of state with two other dogs....claimed they didn't know but seemed ok with putting her back in the RV and continuing with their other dogs.....I guess I assumed it was actually an AKC rule....we were simply spectators so I assumed wrong.....maybe what I witnessed was simply "dog show etiquette" back in those prehistoric days....if it's allowed today and is considered OK.....seems like an example to me in this much improved world we live in...where the needs of the "one" out weigh the needs of the "many"......if I was showing and had a male....I would consider a female in heat one more distraction my dog or myself don't need....over the years working with dogs that needed a home or had been rehomed with whatever problem they came to me with....I've never tried to get an intact male NOT to act like what he is.....an intact male....for those of you that have trained your male to ignore what they are on command--I applaud you....to the OP sounds like with the right training maybe your dog can be taught to ignore...good luck


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> *There are always bitches in season at dog shows. *Working on focus exercises with distractions are important with good rewards. In nose work class females in heat were one of the distractions that were close by and there were mostly intact males in the classroom- tensions were high on those days but all the dogs powered through.


Agree.

In some more pet type events, females in season are still treated as taboo contagions. In other sports, dogs are absolutely expected to work through it (or miss a lot of trial opportunities). 

I just ran an in-heat, intact bitch for her ORTs (NACSW). She wore pants and I pottied her at the far side of the property, but it is allowed and there are protocols in place because it's commonplace. BIS's run in catalog order at herding trials, they run last (but can still run) in test classes. It's normal and common in IPO/IGP. The only sport I've had to remove myself from when a female is in season is AKC agility. You can run a BIS in UKI agility, you just need to use a mat at the start line. Pants optional.

If you're going to do dog sports or show, you should expect to train through a BIS. So good on you, OP, for working on it right away.


----------



## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

At club and at his trial there are/were BIS for Valor. BIS usually just go last. I corrected him out of paying attention to distractions like that as he was definitely "interested" ..but he was pretty easy that way as he is handler sensitive. So I don't have advice on how to train out of something so attractive (I'm sure others do).


----------



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

All the dogs at a conformation show are intact, so thats a whole lot of potential for a bunch of girls in heat. You just deal with it. As far as training to show around them with your male, I would guess it would involve lots of training on focus and engagement, along with a sharp correction for ignoring you in a situation with a bitch in heat. All my dogs know what “knock it off means”. Since he’s so young, you can only hope he’ll get ahold of himself as he gets older. I’ve only had one intact male in my house with my girls and he wasn’t a screamer.


----------



## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

The first time I had ever experienced a bis with my intact boy was in a regular NW class where the owner of the bis forgot the panties. My guy only gave a curiosity look towards the bitch while heading to the interior search area (pretty good work focus) but the bis pee spots in the potty area was a challenge to get his nose out of. 

A few years back someone posted a YouTube vid of a mal working what looked like an obedience portion of an IPO exercise while a BIS was posted (tied) in the middle of the exercise work area. That mal worked flawlessly and the bis was incredibly patient. The vid was a shocker at the time but I think that the two dogs must have been HOT and the two were intended to be bred. The breeding took place immediately after the studs flawless performance with the willing bis.

A shocker for certain but pretty amazing to watch that level of obedience and intense work ethic.

A perfect comeback to those guys looking at your boy holding his down but making a ruckus. "Enough with the looks a female in heat just passed him". Expressions probably would have changed from disdain to understanding.


----------



## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Heartandsoul said:


> The breeding took place immediately after the studs flawless performance with the willing bis.


....and from that day on Rex never worked for mere tug rewards again.


----------



## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

My bitch is in her second week of being in heat. 

I am keeping her away from our obedience classes as not all the dogs there are as advanced in their training.

However, I still take her to the working/protection classes because the trainers want her there to be a distraction for the dogs when they are being worked by their handlers.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

:spittingcoffee: best laugh I've had all week. Yup!


----------



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

This lunatic was in heat this day at the show, and went Best of Breed. She was traveling with young intact males, who were also being shown. They were a little extra rowdy, but it was all good.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Shane'sDad said:


> OP.....I think that most knowledgeable people who have a clue which way the wind blows....will not bring their female in heat to any event where they may encounter intact males....the responsibility of doing the "right" thing lies with the owner of the female in heat not with you or any owner of an intact male......yes I know that here in the real world all you have to do is read many of the posts on any online forum ( pick a forum subject ) or just watch daily news to know that the world is full of clueless....inexperienced or just don't care folks....however I think you'll find MOST folks involved in the show ring won't bring a female in heat to a show......
> 
> 
> I agree with Tim --you'll never teach an intact male to ignore a female in heat....it just won't happen....quickest way to get some "battle scars" or worse on a male...is drop a female in heat in the middle of a group of males....you never know what you may encounter in a park situation-- an owner may OR may not know their girl is in heat ( hard to believe-but true )...but most "show" folks will know better......



I have been on both sides. I have worked intact males and expected them to do their jobs and I have worked intact females and make no apologies. 
I walk Shadow in public. I control my dog and you control yours. She still needs exercise. I worked Sabi in heat. We still had a job to do. I trained Bud around females in heat and expected him to listen. I worked both his dad and his uncle around bitches. 
Training is training and obedience is obedience. One of my pet peeves is people who say their dogs listen except when...
They listen or they don't. There is no sometimes and excepts.

OP make it clear to your boy that his obedience is not up for debate. I would be asking for him to ignore, focus on you. As long as he knows the commands a correction is in line.
There is a time and place for him to be a dog. And when he is "working" isn't it.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Lot of focus threads on this forum. Dogs who work in real life have to learn how to handle the call of the wild so do people who compete in shows and sports and people who have pets.


----------



## Datura (Feb 16, 2018)

Thank you to everyone who understands. 
I was giving him a correction and asking him for a focus and he was arguing with me every time. 
I am going to certainly double down on his focus training. I've just been working him in the front yard, and not going to the park, until I can get a game plan in place, but I think if it's decent out tomorrow we will head down, and do some training. A lot of training lol


----------



## raff (Apr 13, 2019)

Train, train, train, train. Get his obed solid. Then proof the heck out of it. Take him to all kinds of crazy places; be creative. But, be sure his obed is solid first, don’t set him up to fail.

Draft friends and family into service to act as distractors for you. Have them bounce balls, throw Kongs, run around and act crazy, whatever is likely to get your boy to break his command. (I like to use a long down for this). One of my pet dog students got really into it and brought live chickens. Awesome.

You get the idea.

Once your boy is MOAB proof on his obed, biches in heat won’t matter. Neither will cats, squirrels, other loose dogs, screaming toddlers or UFOs landing. Even controlled environments are not 100% predictable. The Real World is 100% unpredictable. When your dog is rock solid on his obed, you have maximum control under any and all conditions.

This is why the focus work isn’t helping right now. The underlying obed has to be more solid; he has to understand that attention to you is not an opt out thing.

Your story reminds me of a much loved, still intact intact male I had years ago when I brought a great working bitch over from Amsterdam. (Not for him). She was in heat when she got here. My male spent his free time mooning around outside her kennel. *But*, he never ignored me or a command. He was still totally manageable in the house, even if he may have preferred to be elsewhere.

Dogs should be taught to be neutral to other dogs they encounter out in the Big World. It’s the safest thing for all parties.


----------



## Datura (Feb 16, 2018)

raff said:


> Train, train, train, train. Get his obed solid. Then proof the heck out of it. Take him to all kinds of crazy places; be creative. But, be sure his obed is solid first, don’t set him up to fail.
> 
> Draft friends and family into service to act as distractors for you. Have them bounce balls, throw Kongs, run around and act crazy, whatever is likely to get your boy to break his command. (I like to use a long down for this). One of my pet dog students got really into it and brought live chickens. Awesome.
> 
> ...


I admit our obedience work isn't as good as it should be. this winter was ****. Between the terrible weather and my health, we weren't able to leave the house much, even to get in the yard. We did a lot in the house, and he was great, but once we moved out into the real world, it was like he had never heard these commands in his life, so we are kind of starting over outside lol 
He is doing better. We go to the front yard and work a lot. We live across from a pretty busy (Well for our area lol) gas station. He has also gone from loving food rewards, to not caring about them very much. But I've read thats kind of normal. For a puppy to be food crazy, then not so much when they get older. 
Dean is the first dog I've gotten to actually train. I have kind of worked with my female bulldog on these things, but she is so different from him. She will try her best to do anything I ask of her, where as Dean is like meh, maybe later. I want to go do these things first. I don't let him go do those things, but he still tries lol


----------



## raff (Apr 13, 2019)

Datura said:


> I admit our obedience work isn't as good as it should be. this winter was ****. Between the terrible weather and my health, we weren't able to leave the house much, even to get in the yard. We did a lot in the house, and he was great, but once we moved out into the real world, it was like he had never heard these commands in his life, so we are kind of starting over outside lol
> He is doing better. We go to the front yard and work a lot. We live across from a pretty busy (Well for our area lol) gas station. He has also gone from loving food rewards, to not caring about them very much. But I've read thats kind of normal. For a puppy to be food crazy, then not so much when they get older.
> Dean is the first dog I've gotten to actually train. I have kind of worked with my female bulldog on these things, but she is so different from him. She will try her best to do anything I ask of her, where as Dean is like meh, maybe later. I want to go do these things first. I don't let him go do those things, but he still tries lol


Yeah, once the rapid growth phase winds down, it’s not unusual for the dog’s food drive to calm down a bit.

If you want to continue using treats, find more exciting food! I haven’t run across too many dogs who could reduce the Natural Balance that comes in rolls. We cut it into small pieces for training.


----------



## Datura (Feb 16, 2018)

raff said:


> Yeah, once the rapid growth phase winds down, it’s not unusual for the dog’s food drive to calm down a bit.
> 
> If you want to continue using treats, find more exciting food! I haven’t run across too many dogs who could reduce the Natural Balance that comes in rolls. We cut it into small pieces for training.


I have been dehydrating chicken livers and using those as treats. He wont eat them raw, but he loves them dehydrated. Same with fish lol He goes crazy for dehydrated fish, but refuses it any other way lol 
I actually love that he will work for his one ball toy. I plan on doing some dock diving with him someday, and hope he jumps for this ball, or rather a ball that floats (I found out the other day, that this one does not after Dean took it out a few feet into Lake Superior and dropped it, and left it for me to go get. lol) I've noticed he is really into fetch now. More so than the flirt pole even.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

You mentioning Lake Superior is what made me respondnto this thread lol! I just started reading a great book a few days. As I am out of commission myself temporarily. It is called Daughters of fhe Lake by Wendy Webb. It’s a light mtystery but about Lake Superior and all its magic. I’m almost done it’s hard to put it down. 

If he enjoys the ball that is a great way to get great intensity and focus. They will do anything for a game of fetch if the high interest is there. Max world is all about how to get me to play ball with him lol! hotdogs and pot roast raw or cooked if using food or mozerella cheese but nothing gets him more focused then the ball. Nose work class is where we always practiced focus work as there was lots of down time between our turn it was where at home I would normally not get time to do. The beach was another place I found a spot that we had some room and bring the ball out and engage all other people , dogs , kids ,horses, helicopters , sea life deer ,surfers 4 wheelers , giant waves he loved to crash through all invisible. It was great because we went to beach at first off season with minimal distractions then on season which had all kinds of distractions. The beach was always big enough to after to really find a nice quiet spot.


----------



## Datura (Feb 16, 2018)

Jenny720 said:


> You mentioning Lake Superior is what made me respondnto this thread lol! I just started reading a great book a few days. As I am out of commission myself temporarily. It is called Daughters of fhe Lake by Wendy Webb. It’s a light mtystery but about Lake Superior and all its magic. I’m almost done it’s hard to put it down.
> 
> If he enjoys the ball that is a great way to get great intensity and focus. They will do anything for a game of fetch if the high interest is there. Max world is all about how to get me to play ball with him lol! hotdogs and pot roast raw or cooked if using food or mozerella cheese but nothing gets him more focused then the ball. Nose work class is where we always practiced focus work as there was lots of down time between our turn it was where at home I would normally not get time to do. The beach was another place I found a spot that we had some room and bring the ball out and engage all other people , dogs , kids ,horses, helicopters , sea life deer ,surfers 4 wheelers , giant waves he loved to crash through all invisible. It was great because we went to beach at first off season with minimal distractions then on season which had all kinds of distractions. The beach was always big enough to after to really find a nice quiet spot.


The beach we go too is short but long lol But it's almost always empty. We've gone the past couple days, and working on commands he already knows, and playing fetch in the water. It was only in the low 40's, but he was right in there. He actually went in with waves, and went over his head for the first time (Gives me hope for dock diving for sure haha) There is a larger, nicer beach down town, and they put on water front concerts every Thursday and it gets kind of crowded. I hope I can get him down there this summer to work on water work during all that. Hoping to find a good floaty toy, as his ball does not. We've just been using sticks. That way if he decides not to go get it, I don't have to wae out in the freezing water again lol


----------

