# Max The movie and Mals everywhere.



## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

Have you seen the Previews for the Movie Called Max? Its about A Belgian Mal that was in the war. There is more to the story it makes me cry just thinking about it. I am a sucker for dog movies. I don't think I can handle seeing this one in the movies I cry too much when dogs are in the story. 

My Question is Do you think this movie will cause people to go out and get a Mal? I have a feeling this will bring more popularity to the breed and I have a feeling in 2016 we will see many more Mals in Rescues and shelter. 

What do you think these movies do for dogs? It happens all the time. Rin tin tin and you had a boom in GSD popularity. Lassie Collies were popular at one time. Jack Russell's in the 90's Thanks to Frasier. Cocker Spaniels Thanks to Lady and the tramp. Dalmatians because of 101 Dalmatians. It happens movies and shows bring unneeded Popularity to breeds. 

What do you think. Will we see a boom in Mals after this movie?


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## CDR Shep Mama (Mar 14, 2015)

My husband and I are terrified of Mals becoming popular due to this movie, we are getting a female Mal next year spring/summer (whenever the breeder has their next litter) and we're worried they will avoid breeding out of worry crappy people will try to purchase.

Plus the whole "supply and demand" deal, but hopefully, since we're going to a breeder we won't have to worry.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

dog movies, imho, lead to popularity, poor breeding and full shelters. wont see it.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Well I certainly hope not!!! I've considered a Mal or Dutchie instead of a shepherd pup as I want to do bite work. However the qualities I want in a dog are going to be much easier to find in a GSD then Mal. Which is unfortunate because I actually prefer the physical characteristics of malinois (Smaller, less undercoat, more squared). Anywho... 

On the bright side this movie doesn't seem like it is set up to be a "Franchise" in the way that Rin Tin Tin, Lassie, 101 Dalmations, Beethoven, and Air Bud were. For the general public Mals just aren't as pleasing to the eye - so less merchandising possibilities. AND it's not a Disney film so I don't see eternal popularity for Max. 

I'm hoping for an 8 below type situation. A good heart tugging story that falls into obscurity. 

I have seen something that really does disturb me though. Like I said I had considered a Mal instead of a GSD puppy and would not be opposed to one if I found the RIGHT dog so I have been cruising the interwebs and checking out breeders for them as well. I've come across a litter announcement that said something along the lines of "See Max then get your own Belgian Malinois. The Best Dog in the World. Puppies Available XXXXX" These are KNPV lined dogs at that.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

A friend and I are going to see it this weekend and to be honest, I can't wait. It looks like a good story to me. The problem, as I see it, is not the movie so much as people who have no idea of their own limitations. I know mine and I will never own a malinois, they are too much dog for me. But I can still enjoy seeing the story on screen.


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## CDR Shep Mama (Mar 14, 2015)

voodoolamb said:


> I have seen something that really does disturb me though. Like I said I had considered a Mal instead of a GSD puppy and would not be opposed to one if I found the RIGHT dog so I have been cruising the interwebs and checking out breeders for them as well. I've come across a litter announcement that said something along the lines of "See Max then get your own Belgian Malinois. The Best Dog in the World. Puppies Available XXXXX" These are KNPV lined dogs at that.


This makes me want to face palm myself with a metal chair.

Good to know that irresponsible breeders are flag themselves for us though.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

voodoolamb said:


> Well I certainly hope not!!! I've considered a Mal or Dutchie instead of a shepherd pup as I want to do bite work. However the qualities I want in a dog are going to be much easier to find in a GSD then Mal. Which is unfortunate because I actually prefer the physical characteristics of malinois (Smaller, less undercoat, more squared). Anywho...
> 
> On the bright side this movie doesn't seem like it is set up to be a "Franchise" in the way that Rin Tin Tin, Lassie, 101 Dalmations, Beethoven, and Air Bud were. For the general public Mals just aren't as pleasing to the eye - so less merchandising possibilities. AND it's not a Disney film so I don't see eternal popularity for Max.
> 
> ...


I think you have a good point. This is not a Disney movie your are right it will be a "A good heart tugging story that falls into obscurity. "

I still think this movie will bring Mals out of the Shadows. Most people have no clue what they are. Any time I see one I ask the Owner " Is that a Mal?" Their eyes light up they are so happy someone knows what it is. Then they want to talk to me.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

CDR Shep Mama said:


> This makes me want to face palm myself with a metal chair.
> 
> Good to know that irresponsible breeders are flag themselves for us though.


Yeah. What's sad is I was actually going to contact them just to see if they ever produce the type of dog I'm looking for. Then I saw that and had this sudden premonition of getting an sensitive alligator with two speeds "go" and "go faster". Because ya know. No confidence they would actually listen to what I was looking for. Just want my deposit. I mean I truely hope that's not the case but it was enough to give me pause and move on to the next breeder



Pepper311 said:


> I still think this movie will bring Mals out of the Shadows. Most people have no clue what they are. Any time I see one I ask the Owner " Is that a Mal?" Their eyes light up they are so happy someone knows what it is. Then they want to talk to me.


You get bonus points when they have an all black mal and you get it right  Or so the guy I talked to at the pet store who had his beautiful all black mal there with him said  And yes, I got it on the first try! Ha.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about the working line dogs. The best breeders with the best lines of dogs aren't going to be affected by the crappers the backyard breeders or puppy mills pump out. If I wanted to find "the dog" there's only a handful of names I would consider and most of them are in Europe.

As for dogs ending up in the shelters well that is a given regardless of what breed.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I do believe it will result in something for the breed, although I'm not sure how bad it will be. I personally am considering one down the road when I no longer have cats, I like everything about them, but I also know what they can be. I found a Dalmatian many years ago in a garbage can looking for food. She was about 3 months old and a result of 101 Dalmatians. They are wonderful dogs(wouldn't mind another one of that breed at all) but not for a first time owner IMO. They are very active, very high energy, and very athletic dogs. I would say mine was even more so then my present GSDs.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I am planning on seeing it. Will it cause more Mals to be in shelters and rescues? Probably but not so bad. Plus good breeders and good Mal rescues will probably be super careful when it comes to screening, they already are too, so I think we are good. I probably wouldn't own a Mal, beautiful and amazing dogs, but most likely not for me.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

It's not the rescues and good breeders that we have to worry about. It's the BYB that will find a cheap one (they are out there) and breed them just to make a buck because the movie is going to make them popular. It was the same with Rin Tin, 101 Dalmations, Marley and Me, Lassey, etc. It's never the good repuatable breeders or the good rescues that are the issue. It's the market. They are will now be in demand (hopefully not, but it's probable) and there's always someone looking to make easy money.. It's so sad an unfortunate. I see this happening. 

I LOVE this breed but wouldn't own one until the circumstances were right and I was going to have the time to dedicate them to a sport and have them as a working/sport dog. There are also the lines with calmer dispostions but I am not sure I could own one as just pet, it would depend on the breeder and the temperament AND where I am at in life. Beautiful dogs though :wub:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

another Mal coming out in the movie ADAM.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Of course, like anything else they will become a required item for some people. This of course will wear off and then........


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

carmspack said:


> another Mal coming out in the movie ADAM.


Never heard of that one... what is it about, I couldn't even find anything on it.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

CDR Shep Mama said:


> My husband and I are terrified of Mals becoming popular due to this movie, we are getting a female Mal next year spring/summer (whenever the breeder has their next litter) and we're worried they will avoid breeding out of worry crappy people will try to purchase.
> 
> Plus the whole "supply and demand" deal, but hopefully, since we're going to a breeder we won't have to worry.


Well if the person who looking for a working line german shepherd but cant tell the difference between a GSD and a mal then they dont know jack about these 2 breeds then that means less GSD end up in the shelter lol... The real WL of these 2 breeds wouldnt sell to anyone who want a WL just because they saw the movie max anyways hahhahha


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## CDR Shep Mama (Mar 14, 2015)

Ace GSD said:


> Well if the person who looking for a working line german shepherd but cant tell the difference between a GSD and a mal then they dont know jack about these 2 breeds then that means less GSD end up in the shelter lol... The real WL of these 2 breeds wouldnt sell to anyone who want a WL just because they saw the movie max anyways hahhahha


Hopefully they would see through potential buyers lies, that way good dogs don't end up in bad situations. Some people are very convincing decievers. 

People who can't tell the difference between GSD and Mal probably shouldn't own either.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I always feel conflicted when movies come out with a dog as the "main character."

I love seeing movies with dogs in them but at the same time I know that it is going to impact the breed in a negative way.

I worry that some people won't be able to tell the difference between a GSD and a Mal, some people might read up on the breed and discover that they will be too much for them so they go for the next best thing, which is a GSD.

The Dalmatian breed has not recovered from the 101 Dalmatians movies. I still get comments about them being aggressive, dumb, deaf, full of health issues, extremely hyper, difficult to train and terrible with children. My Dalmatian is 100% the opposite of it all. He does have a lot of energy but he definitely isn't a hyper mess that can't settle in the house. He has no health issues, he's not deaf although sometimes he likes to act like he is, he can be aggressive towards dogs he has never met but he has several dog friends and he's fantastic with people and children. He isn't super easy to train but he isn't difficult either. He isn't dumb but he is silly and does several things that make me laugh. 

However, it is kind of nice that Dalmatians have put such a bad taste in people's mouths because they are not in demand, most Dalmatian breeders nowadays are reputable breeders and they sell for pretty cheap, I found them to be about $800-$1,000 from reputable show breeders.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

it is not just movies that create "dog fads". Remember all the chichuachua's after the Taco Bell commericials or after Paris Hilton started carrying one around in her purse? (I think it was Paris Hilton. I am totally out of touch with popular culture.) i have also noticed an uptick in the number of Portguese water dogs since the Obama's got one.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes, I think it will. I've already seen an ad for a Mal with the person using the movie as the marketing aspect.

It's going to be sad.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

What's annoyed me more than anything is people posting all the videos and pictures of malinois that are completely out of control and poorly managed as warnings to keep people away from the breed. It's usually couched in terms of hey look I'm an elite dog owner I train my dog for X sport several hours a day and he still does this. It's a training issue not a problem with the dog. Those same owners would struggle with a border collie or a Dalmatian.

I love mine. They bring it on the field and sleep in bed with me or chill out watching tv with me. They don't really need 2+ hours of exercise a day. People who try to tire them out to avoid destructive or crazy behaviors in the house have it twisted. All you get going that route is a hoodlum dog who is in fantastic shape. The secret is to condition calmness in the house through obedience. You also have to be calm yourself because they will use any excuse they can to flip their on switch.

I'm probably not the best guy to listen to on that count because I've been living like this so long it's become natural so it comes super easy to me now.


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## Ruger Monster (Jan 29, 2015)

I'll be seeing Max tonight, can't wait. Bought my tickets on Tuesday morning. And I do unfortunately think there'll be an influx of them because of the movie. People saying "oh look what this dog can do", and not think about the training in involved, how high energy they really are, etc.

The BF and I enjoy watching videos on YT of little Mal-igator puppies and adult Mals at work, and would love to have one in the future. But we also know a lot more about what's involved in owning one than just some person that sees one in a movie and thinks it looks cool.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I just read the actual plot and I am probably not going to see this movie. Honestly it sounds terrible. For it to make the malinois popular it would have to be popular and I'm pretty sure it will be a giant crapper of a movie, like should have gone straight to VHS because it isn't worth putting on DVDs bad.

The saving max drama videos on YouTube and facebook are probably going to reach more people than will watch the movie and it would have made a much smaller unnoticible splash had they not freaked out about it at all.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I do not want to see this movie. No matter how bad the movie, I bawl like a little kid when something happens to a dog on screen. I didn't cry at all in American Sniper except for the part with the dog, and I think my husband thought I was crazy. I couldn't watch the trailer for Max without crying.

And I don't think it's going to be good for the Mal. Dalmatians aren't easy dogs either, and I'm pretty sure the warnings are out there, and that didn't stop people. There will be an influx of idiots breeding Mals.

A friend of mine suggested I consider a Mal instead of a GSD, because they've been less overbred and I think she thought I stood a greater chance of getting a good dog. I knew my limitations and knew a Mal was outside them. I probably would have been able to locate a good dog, but it wouldn't have been a good dog for me.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I will say this. One nice thing about the movie is after they were done with the palisade and some of the training equipment they used on set OJ Knighten sold it to us super cheap and it's in the training field behind the kennel here.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Since the movie is about a war dog coming home, maybe it will raise awareness that the dogs retiring need homes and that the funding needs to be there to bring our dogs home from overseas.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

oh boy -- this is a sticky for everyone -- those with a new pup who can't quiet itself so they go bonkers over extending the dog even more creating problems not fixing them -- and the same for dogs that have behavioural problems tied to no parameters , no manners -- thank you 
Bailiff - here we go "People who try to tire them out to avoid destructive or crazy behaviors in the house have it twisted. All you get going that route is a hoodlum dog who is in fantastic shape. The secret is to condition calmness in the house through obedience. You also have to be calm yourself"

can I use it as a standard piece of advice --


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

From my understanding the military today does bring its dogs home-and there are programs that you can adopt them-Hopefully people who watch the movie will educate themselves about the breed-and breeders will be careful who they sell to


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

They allow them to be adopted. They don't always have a ride home.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

There was a really nice palisade we haven't moved into the field yet because we need to build a ramp for it.

And yeah Carmen you would be surprised how often we get clients in that are asking how to calm the dog down when their entire family life at home is hectic and kids are bouncing off the walls and yelling and screaming. Anytime the dog actually settles they go over there and pet it frantically and mess with it.

It is super easy to make dog see you as a conditioned cue to being hyper. Greet the dog crazy when you first get home, play with the dog when it is around you but never make time for the dog to chill out with you too. Play high intensity games in the house without a start and finish cue. I see it everyday when people come pick their dogs up from daycare or boarding. Owners freak out with excitement the dogs freak out with excitement. Looks cute but what it teaches is not good.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Baillif said:


> People who try to tire them out to avoid destructive or crazy behaviors in the house have it twisted. All you get going that route is a hoodlum dog who is in fantastic shape. The secret is to condition calmness in the house through obedience. You also have to be calm yourself because they will use any excuse they can to flip their on switch.


When I read this I started laughing out loud. I remember a long time ago thinking this through....a tired, well exercised dog is a happy relaxed dog in the house which won't be inclined to being hyper because I tired the dog out...all kind of made sense I guess. Then I start thinking, just like myself, the more physical activity I partake in, the more it takes to tire me out...same holds true for the dog I assumed. So, I start to view this process as a never ending cycle of sorts....the more I exercise the dog, the more fit the dog becomes which in turn requires more exercise to tire the dog out...this might not be such a good thing down the road when I have to exercise the dog hard for 4-6 hours a day. Well, the calmness through discipline is the ticket and the dog knows when it is time to mellow. I'm not suggesting for a second that I lightened the exercise regimen I have for my dog but for a short while I had that " hoodlum dog who is in fantastic shape"....not such a hoodlum any more except when I provoke her.

SuperG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

With all dogs, it's about setting the criteria early. You don't want the dog to jump on you when you get home? Don't encourage it. You don't want the dog to race out the door? Teach them an incompatible behavior. 

Unfortunately, 99% of pet people don't get this. So, IMO, this movie, or any movie that promotes a breed like this, will be a bad thing for the breed.

But people can always get a showline Mal. They are 2x the size and have much plusher fur.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

I already had someone at work ask me about Mals, saying how cool they looked in the movie and wondering where they could buy one.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

another gem from Bailiff "

Doesn't matter what their day was like.

They are conditioned to relax in the house. I don't allow them to play in the house or do anything high intensity in the house outside of something that has a cue to start and finish.

When we go outside or in the training room they go nuts. When they are in working mode they are wired. In the house or crate it is chill time.

People always go assuming a tired dog is a good dog. No. A tired dog is a tired dog. If you went to a maximum security prison and saw a serial killer who had just gotten done lifting weights all day because that is all he had to do, and he was asleep in his cell would you go and say oh what a good man? No. He is still a psycho killer he is just asleep. Same with dogs.

People who don't understand dogs and training assume keeping them calm is about tiring them out and it isn't the case. Keeping them calm is about managing and training their mental and emotional states. "


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I am planning on seeing it. Will it cause more Mals to be in shelters and rescues?* Probably but not so bad*. Plus good breeders and good Mal rescues will probably be super careful when it comes to screening, they already are too, so I think we are good.


I'm sorry, but this is a "disneyfied" view of what happens to high-drive dogs who end up in shelters. There's no magical fairy wand that gets waved to open up a spot in breed rescue to save them. 

Many that end up in shelters _*die. *_In some southern shelters, that might be by asphyxiation in a gas chamber, or through a very painful heart-stick. The luckiest will get put to sleep with a simple injection.

Rescue saves _a few _-- many, many, many deserving purebred dogs of all sorts die in shelters in California, Texas, and across the South, _including _Mals and GSDs, for lack of foster space. 

Breed popularity means dogs dying when idiots buy the cute puppy and then dump it when it hits adolescence. It's worse for Mals than GSDs because Mal rescue doesn't have much person-power working in it because it used to be such a niche breed, hardly ever seen in shelters. That's already been changing in recent years--a movie bump is going to make it worse. The infrastructure isn't there for an increase in shelter surrenders for this breed -- at least not in the South, where shelter kill rates are sky-high.

Worse, shelters honestly tend to do a poor job evaluating working breeds generally. The higher the drive, the worse the shelter evaluation. High-drive dogs may never even get put up for adoption at some shelters if they "fail" the evaluation. The check box forms used for the ASPCA S.A.F.E.R. test are designed for people who have no background in reading dogs. The test grossly overidentifies "aggression" and is almost tailor-made for working-line dogs to fail. Aloofness or avoidance translates to a poor score for "friendliness." Defensiveness when a hulking stranger looms over the dog and grabs the dog's feet translates to "human aggression." Dogs that are marshmallows do great on the test (and ironically, lots of pits ace it). Dogs bred with any sort of natural suspicion or prey drive tend to score horribly.

Any drive (or even reactivity to other dogs) can be a death sentence in a shelter eval. They test them for "dog aggression" by walking them on leash with slip leads tightening as the dogs pull, nose to nose (again, setting up many dogs to fail--even an excited lunge gets misread frequently by inexperienced staff as "wanting to attack."). Even if they somehow get a lucky with an evaluator that sees them for what they are, high-drive, high-energy dogs tend to go stir-crazy without exercise and attention, making them seem even less adoptable. Many volunteers at shelters are afraid to walk them when they act out in the kennel (barking incessantly at the kennel door for attention).

There have been several mals locally in shelters in the last year or so, but mal rescue has not come for a single one. Sometimes other rescues have stepped up (GSRs or all breeds), but not always.

If there's a bump in popularity, many _will _get dumped as adolescents and die in shelters -- not because they are badly bred or bad dogs, but because the owners ended up buying "too much dog" without any plan to follow through on training, and the dog grew up one day and dismantled the house out of boredom.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

Magwart said:


> I'm sorry, but this is a "disneyfied" view of what happens to high-drive dogs who end up in shelters. There's no magical fairy wand that gets waved to open up a spot in breed rescue to save them.
> 
> Many that end up in shelters _*die. *_In some southern shelters, that might be by asphyxiation in a gas chamber, or through a very painful heart-stick. The luckiest will get put to sleep with a simple injection.
> 
> ...


YUP! 

As others have said it's the back yard breeders that are going to cause all the problems. A good breeder should ALWAYS take back the dog it bred and I think most do. Its the Back yard breeders that dump and run. So sad. 

Maybe increase in Mals will spark up more rescues. 

Word of mouth can get the wrong dog in the wrong hands. I messed up years ago I wanted a Mal. I did my research but decided I should wait till my child was older before I got a dog like that. I talked about them at work with a coworker at the time he was doing ok. I never thought these people would get one. Well they did. They might have gotten one and gave it away now are on number 2. I don't talk to them any more they turned to Drugs. I am not talking about weed. They never knew what a Mal was until I opened my mouth. Now there is a Mal living with some Gun nut, Tweekers. It kills me. 

So even if people don't see the movie word about these dogs gets out.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Everyone is not taking into account that while good breeders will take back the dogs, they are not always aware one of their dogs was given up to a shelter or rescue. There are people always rehoming dogs and they never think to go back to the breeder or they are worried about how it makes them look.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The best breeders usually have a contractual buy back policy for puppies under 1 year of age or even a right of first refusal to potentially deny the sale of a dog to someone else if the dog is under 1 year of age.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

carmspack said:


> another gem from Bailiff "
> 
> Doesn't matter what their day was like.
> 
> ...


Very well said! Bravo!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Baillif said:


> The best breeders usually have a contractual buy back policy for puppies under 1 year of age or even a right of first refusal to potentially deny the sale of a dog to someone else if the dog is under 1 year of age.


Right, but if they arent notified how do they know? What happens after a year? Rescues have the same policy, return dog back to them and yet they end up in kill shelters. A contract isn't going to help this or any other breed.


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## Basia (Oct 7, 2011)

voodoolamb said:


> You get bonus points when they have an all black mal and you get it right  Or so the guy I talked to at the pet store who had his beautiful all black mal there with him said  And yes, I got it on the first try! Ha.


I have the opposite problem where I end up in arguments with complete strangers over the breed of my dog. They seem to think, no- "know" that her blackness automatically means she's a Belgian Malinois (pronounced "malinoy", lol) and not a GSD.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

I've already had several people ask me about mals in relation to the movie. One in particular is an old acquaintance who has two children under 5 and an out of control golden retriever, but thought the mal might be a good fit since it would have enough energy to keep up with their golden.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> They allow them to be adopted. They don't always have a ride home.


The military does not leave their dogs behind -since Vietnam they have brought their dogs home

WDotW: Actually, No, There Are No Military Dogs Left Behind | Foreign Policy


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Right, but if they arent notified how do they know? What happens after a year? Rescues have the same policy, return dog back to them and yet they end up in kill shelters. A contract isn't going to help this or any other breed.


Can't save them all.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Right, but if they arent notified how do they know? What happens after a year? Rescues have the same policy, return dog back to them and yet they end up in kill shelters. A contract isn't going to help this or any other breed.


Friends of mine have a dog to whom this happened.

The dog was rescued when she was younger. Later, the couple divorced and instead of returning the dog to the rescue, they surrendered her to a kill shelter. Thank goodness the dog was chipped and the rescue was notified. They immediately pulled her and got her back into foster.

My husband's comment on hearing this was, "The dog is the TOP thing I would fight you for in a divorce" and I said, "Same here." Our friends' dog is very sweet and clearly well socialized; this was a loved and well cared for dog. We can only conjecture that they maybe had to sell a house and move to places that didn't allow dogs. No idea why they wouldn't go back to the rescue, but they did not.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Can't save them all.


Sadly it's not even a good case as saving some....


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Magwart said:


> I'm sorry, but this is a "disneyfied" view of what happens to high-drive dogs who end up in shelters. There's no magical fairy wand that gets waved to open up a spot in breed rescue to save them.
> 
> Many that end up in shelters _*die. *_In some southern shelters, that might be by asphyxiation in a gas chamber, or through a very painful heart-stick. The luckiest will get put to sleep with a simple injection.
> 
> ...


I think my post was a little vague in what I was actually trying to say.

As a fellow person who is involved in animal rescue and sheltering, I get your point. I know many dogs in shelters do die because of multiple reasons. I know how sad it is for some dogs. I currently volunteer for a rescue organization that was opened to start working with shelters in the area to bring down their euthanasia rates, we started with one shelter and now work with multiple. They are very selective in what they have to take as we can't take them all unfortunately. Many rescues and shelters are limited in the dogs they can and cannot take. Its a sad reality.

I am no way saying that there won't be a rise in breed popularity, there will be. When I said that breeders and rescues will be more picky, meaning if someone came to them saying 'I saw Max and want a Mal just like him' the rescue, shelter or breeder would more than likely not give them a dog. As someone else said, the videos going around saying the dogs are overly crazy isn't helping either. I have seen people manage Mal's beautiful. No they are NOT dogs for first time owners and NO someone should NOT get a certain breed because of a movie. Researching the breed is KEY. Anyone who comes into the rescue I volunteer with who is asking about a breed, I always tell them they need to research the breed. I have so many people who say to me they want a Husky, because they are pretty. I always advise them that Huskies are a VERY ACTIVE breed, and advise them to research it before thinking of acquiring one. I do the same when people ask me about getting a GSD, I advise them to research and ask them questions in why they want one, besids the 'cool factor'. 

My rescue had an increase in breeds, mainly Border Collies. Many people turned them in due to the herding instinct. I suggested to the rescue that we should make notices next to dogs whose breeds we know(purebres or crosses of certain mixes) next to their kennel cards for potential adopters to see. At the shelter I work at, potential adopters are encouraged to ask us why a dog is labeled 'not good with kids under 12', the shelter also does temperament tests on dogs to see what kind of family or person should take the dog. We always tell the person about the dog that they need to know. Many dogs's kennel cards describe their personality and what is an ideal owner for them. At my rescue, if we meet first time owners we always talk with them about that certain animal to see if it is a good fit.

I am not saying there will be no increase in popularity, I know there will be. My neighbors have a Cocker Spaniel is good example of the breed popularity of Cocker Spaniels when lady and the tramp came out. He has aggression issues and his owners warned us he will bite. I had a close friend who had a husky that did all the things that Huskies are known to do when not well trained or exercised. 

I know very well that breed popularity will result in bad breeding practices and will result in a rise in certain breeds ending up in shelters. I have seen it first hand. When my mother saw the trailers for Max, she didn't know dogs could develop PTSD, she didn't immediately think 'OH LETS GET A MAL'. Yes, there will be people who think that then regret it in the end and the dog will pay for it.

Yes, there will be an increase in people who shouldn't own Mal's because they haven't done their research. I always tell people, GSDs aren't for everyone and I am happy to inform them of the breed. I have only seen one Mal in a rescue near me. If someone were to come to me asking about Mals, I would question them and tell them they are NOT first time owner dog and research is key in knowing of this breed and they also not for everyone.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

holland said:


> The military does not leave their dogs behind -since Vietnam they have brought their dogs home
> 
> WDotW: Actually, No, There Are No Military Dogs Left Behind | Foreign Policy


This was not always the case. I think it was after the Vietnam war that made the military change their ways. Now they do bring them back. So many dogs were left behind during both WW and Vietnam. 



Baillif said:


> Can't save them all.


When I worked at the SPCA years ago. I fell in love with a different dog every week. My mom would tell me the same thing "You can't save them all." Sad but so true. I did manage to save a few.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Vietnam dogs were considered military equiptment and were left to untrained, uncaring Vietnam soldiers. It was horrible that these dogs who saved american's lives were so horribly treated. I hope the laws have changed. We can agonize over movies effects on breeds til the cows come home. It doesn't matter. Hollywood is going to make movies that make money. And there is always going to be crappy, who have no idea what they are getting into when they get a puppy of these popular " movie" breeds then abandon them when they aren't cute and easy like in the movie. It's a sad fact that many dogs die because people are lazy and stupid about what is involved in owning any breed. Training is foreign to their tiny brains and that will never change. It's probably the same idiots that are raising a generation of selfish, spoiled, rude. lazy kids who thinks the world owes them a living and they can't stop texting long enough to actually earn a living.


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## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

Was walking my dogs down by the lake last night and had someone comment on Odin that he "looked just like that Max dog from the movie".. Not a mal, but.. amusing. 

While I understand why people are concerned about the movie, people make ill-informed dog purchases all the time.. if they're not going to do their research before seeing a movie I doubt they're going to do it after, either. It might bring Mals into the spotlight a bit more, but I don't see it being as cataclysmic as people are thinking it will be.. but only time will tell. :crazy:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

https://vimeo.com/131493134


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

So I ended up watching the movie after all. It was really bad. Also Max didn't even bite anyone just hit people with his front feet...boring. What kind of mal doesn't bite? A crappy one.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

llombardo said:


> https://vimeo.com/131493134


Outstanding video! Well done!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Baillif said:


> So I ended up watching the movie after all. It was really bad. Also Max didn't even bite anyone just hit people with his front feet...boring. What kind of mal doesn't bite? A crappy one.


A well trained one? Is Max a Mal in disguise? It's a movie geared more towards family and kids, they aren't going to make it where it scares people to death and that is why everyone will think this breed is just so awesome.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

That movie didn't have issue scaring kids. Between the explosions the gunfire and the dog showing aggression but not actually using its mouth it was strangely outside of PG territory IMO


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## sourdough44 (Oct 26, 2013)

No reason to overthink the movie 'Max', it is Hollywood after all. How many movies show whatever in a good or bad light? Most of them!

We went yesterday, two midlin to older boys with. They liked it, try to put yourself in the mind of a 12 year old. Yes, our German Shepherd is cuter than Max.

I knew we were going to see it, may as well make it a to do and go on the 1st day. Some parts were a bit sad, but I thought it was pretty good.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

To be honest I couldn't wait to see the movie. We took our kids to see the movie. We all enjoyed the movie Max. It was a good family movie. I thought Max did a fantastic job. Loved the part with all the chihuahuas. We have a chihuahua and a dog named Max and partial to Max and the chihuahua scene. I did see many senior citizens ,possible veterans watching the movie. There were talking about the movie Max on the news today and how the mals are working dogs that have lots of drive and need training, mental stimulation and exercise. They are not for the average busy family.


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## Mikki (Aug 17, 2014)

I saw the movie. I think the movie did a fairly decent job portraying that they are working dogs needing a job and wouldn't make the best pets. They also only mentioned the breed once throughout the whole movie...


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## Mikki (Aug 17, 2014)

There was a quote in the movie that these dogs were bred to work.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I went with a friend today and we both enjoyed it, but we weren't there to give it a critical review, just for entertainment. Granted, there were a few parts of the movie where you had to sort of suspend your credibility, but that's OK, we were perfectly willing to play along. It was nice seeing the athleticism of the breed and I do think they tried to portray that these are not easy dogs for just anyone to handle.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

the perspective of the ones posting here, probably doesn't show the perspective of jQP.... those without knowledge see dog(S) in the movie with awe. 
If you are versed in a working breed, you will find fault, better critique this movie compared to someone that is a wannabe or dog fancier ,with not much clue about the actual foundation training that is involved.


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## Mikki (Aug 17, 2014)

The dog in the movie was shown to be aggresive, high strung, demanding, excessively barking, lunging at several people throughout the film and it was actually stated in the film that they need a job, they were bred to work. I can't imagine anybody looking at the breed in awe.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes I agree max was shown as a dog with serious issues. They did not portray max as no air bud. In the movie they mentioned german shepherd in same sentence as describing which breed he was. I wonder how many people watching the movie will know or remember what kind of breed Max is. This is the second movie I saw with a mal and both showed them as dogs meant for work.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I just read that there were 5 different dogs that played the part. It seems to be a movie that I would enjoy. The dog doesn't die or anything does it?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I just read that there were 5 different dogs that played the part. It seems to be a movie that I would enjoy. The dog doesn't die or anything does it?


Its a good movie. Do not want to tell you the end but its nothing to heavy.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I'm waiting for the critics to tell me whether I like the movie or not....


SuperG


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

There is a video from a news station segment about the breed and the trainer goes into detail on how they are NOT good for just anyone and need a job and are very energetic.


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## Persinette (Jan 31, 2015)

Saw the movie today. I liked it, but it felt more like a made for TV movie than a theatre blockbuster. It was about 30 minute too long in my opinion. The emphasis was on the boy and the family, Max was rather secondary, unlike something like Beethoven where the dog is the focus of the film. While I enjoyed it, I don't see it becoming a must see or a classic or causing a dramatic increase in Mal ownership.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I'll just leave this here....


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## richxd87 (Dec 7, 2010)

wyoung2153 said:


> I'll just leave this here....


haha very nice!


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> There is a video from a news station segment about the breed and the trainer goes into detail on how they are NOT good for just anyone and need a job and are very energetic.


Hmmm... I don't know.... I think there is an element out there who will still want one BECAUSE of what was said. Same issues seen with wolf crosses--you know, the big, bad, macho animals (NOT!).

Susan


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

richxd87 said:


> haha very nice!


I laughed.. and thought of this thread immediately!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

http://http://talentedanimals.com/blog/max-the-movie-and-malinois/

Best article so far.

The people struggling so much with mals they feel the need to warn everyone are the people that shouldn't have had them in the first place.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

Baillif said:


> http://http://talentedanimals.com/blog/max-the-movie-and-malinois/
> 
> Best article so far.
> 
> The people struggling so much with mals they feel the need to warn everyone are the people that shouldn't have had them in the first place.


I tend to disagree with the article. Sure no solid proof. But the hollywood effect is strong. I have no doubt kids will see the movie and beg for a mal. I have no doubt parents will oblige. And from what I have seen, is that over-popularity makes AKC sink in its teeth, for registrations and dilate the breeding 'criteria'.

I agree about the education being important. And what better way than what that training school/company did with that pro-mo video. I have no doubt with the amount of dog discussion and engagement with their dogs as part of their lives on this forum, makes any dog a possibility. Yet that is not the majority of the pet population. 

Most people who own dogs, its just a passing thought that they need some pet. Its kind of a decision, of weather they should get a cat a dog, a fish, or what breed looks the coolest. Hollywood has a huge effect on this. If it did not..... Well big companies would never pay millions for prime-time space to sell coca cola. The movie will push along sales, and does nothing to 'educate'. So yea....


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> I'll just leave this here....


That was a great quote! I just saw the movie and of course cried but I was prepared with tissues. I loved the movie and will watch it again when it comes out on DVD probably. I hope no one goes out and gets a Mal because of this movie but you can't fix stupid, you can only hope.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The problem isn't just mals it's any dog with high drives. You can have the same struggles with some field bred labs, with many working and even show line German Shepherds, Dalmatians, ****, I've even seen super drivey labradoodles that could give even sport homes a run for their money.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

That is a good article, but I'd bet some people out to warn others are doing it out of concern for the breed. Too many people aren't honest with themselves and will get a dog that's not a good fit. Our neighbor told us they really like our gsds and were going to get one. They have a minpin looking dog now they do nothing with, it's not even 100% house trained last I heard. 

We discussed the work we put into our dogs without talking "down" to them. I never found anything about having a gsd to be difficult, not at all, but with the our neighbors I pictured the dog being relegated to the backyard with zero training and no exercise. Our talk helped or so we thought, a few days later they said they were getting a husky.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Man that movie was a tear jerker, anyway yes I think so. Even now, when I come across a MAL I've only met two types of owners. Those that know exactly what a MAL is capable of and that's what they wanted in their working dog and those that have one because "it's the dog that caught Bin Laden." 
I myself am a young 23 year old male Marine Vet and I've seen first hands how these dogs work and their drive and I even talked myself out of getting a MAL because it would be too much, and I live a very active lifestyle.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling that you are right about a growing mal population in pounds and shelters and it sucks to say 

BUT,I feel that the fact of how most good mal breeders are extremely picky and take into high considerations who they're selling their dogs to may help the problem and avoid mal's getting into the wrong owners hands, significantly.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Accurate from everything I've read. No Malinois for me.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The Mal as a breed will be fine. It will take a lot more than a movie to ruin the breed. There will be vanguards of bloodlines that will protect the working malinois. The people who need the real working malinois know who has them who breeds them and where to go when they really need one. On the flip side the vanguards who protect the great lines know who to send them to and when to tell people to move on. You can't get the best ones from the best breeders without being someone with experience, knowing someone that can vouch for you, or having cut your teeth titling dogs.

There are many great European breeders who refuse to even send the best dogs to the US because we are a bit of a black hole where good dogs go to disappear and never do anything of real note. Not saying we don't have great dogs in the States because we do, but its an issue.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

The Iditarod is a huge deal here and they market sled dogs' images, names, special skills like going around bad ice, like crazy. They even have doggie profiles. Yet I know of no people who want a sled dog because of that. They think they are just too high energy mostly. People can admire a dog and what it does without wanting their very own. Actually in the case of sled dogs that's a shame, because they are usually very friendly, social dogs and far too many are in need of homes every year. 

Many mushers give summer kennel tours and tourists are encouraged to cuddle a sled dog puppy. Again, there is no overabundance of people seeking out a cute sled dog as a pet.

I think most of the public will see the malinois the same way. Truly, I do.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

If a clown can sell millions of bad quality artificial burgers.. So can a movie sell many dogs.

There will be a market created for watered down mals. There will be a market for people who give into kids or just want that look as a pet. 

It's pretty obvious... Social media and education initiatives may nullify the effect substantially as that famous warning video. 

But to think there is no effect in breeding/meeting market demand/buying for wrong reasons is naive.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

WesS said:


> If a clown can sell millions of bad quality artificial burgers..


Hey I like that clowns burgers...guess I made your case! :blush:


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

Muskeg said:


> The Iditarod is a huge deal here and they market sled dogs' images, names, special skills like going around bad ice, like crazy. They even have doggie profiles. Yet I know of no people who want a sled dog because of that. They think they are just too high energy mostly. People can admire a dog and what it does without wanting their very own. Actually in the case of sled dogs that's a shame, because they are usually very friendly, social dogs and far too many are in need of homes every year.
> 
> Many mushers give summer kennel tours and tourists are encouraged to cuddle a sled dog puppy. Again, there is no overabundance of people seeking out a cute sled dog as a pet.
> 
> I think most of the public will see the malinois the same way. Truly, I do.


One reason people don't get Sled dogs is because they can SEE how much they shed haha. 

We have some sled dogs in town that take tourist out in the winter. We stopped by to say hi. They were Alaskan huskies or something like that you know the ones they are lean and fast and look wild. My daughter went right up to a 8 month old pup that has never been around kids. I was surprised to see how good the dog was with a child that was 5 years old. 

As for the movie I feel it will be a flop.


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## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

On a local pet page on FB, there is a litter being sold with the title of "Get your own Max!" They are being sold for 200, guaranteed BYB. When people are commenting that they are difficult dogs that require a ton of training, exercise, and jobs to do, the owner is negating all that and saying they've never had a problem with their female and thy are smart and easily trainable for anyone, and great family dogs. Lord help them all!!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Females are usually pretty toned down and easyish. But yeah...


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I've only seen the trailer and already have 4 new Mal pups in the past week.


SuperG


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Good Mals dont come cheap, I dont see pet people ruining the breed. Ultimately our club is shooting to get our dogs to the FMBB, our dogs and dogs that compete there are not from some random dog or backyard nor will they ever be.

Luckily most Mals arent exactly pretty dogs, that has been their saving grace unlike the GSD.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

The wife and I saw the movie last weekend. I thought it was entertaining. I'm definitely going to go buy a mal now.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Good Mals dont come cheap, I dont see pet people ruining the breed. Ultimately our club is shooting to get our dogs to the FMBB, our dogs and dogs that compete there are not from some random dog or backyard nor will they ever be.
> 
> Luckily most Mals arent exactly pretty dogs, that has been their saving grace unlike the GSD.


People aren't looking for good, they are looking for cheap. That is why they will end up a mess. Average people don't care about your club or any club for that matter. I have seen two litters announced and for sale on Craigslist here, with no papers of course. There have also been two adult mals found wandering and found.....


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## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

Exactly llombardo, like the litter I found for 200. BYB are going to come out of the wood works with inferior Mals because they see $, and people with Mals already (the irresponsible owners) are going to start breeding theirs because people are going to start showing an interest in owning one.

I for one, find Mals to be absolutely gorgoues animals, but would never get one. Mainly because I don't eat foods I can't pronounce, so it would be silly to get a breed I can't pronounce ?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

mycobraracr said:


> The wife and I saw the movie last weekend. I thought it was entertaining. I'm definitely going to go buy a mal now.


Just remember I did it before it was cool.

I've been trying to get you guys to join the malinois cult for a while now.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Just remember I did it before it was cool.
> 
> I've been trying to get you guys to join the malinois cult for a while now.



Lol, I work with a ton of them. Actually, there are only a couple of us GSD guys in my groups. I will end up with Mals, but just to raise and sell. I can't see myself getting really into them.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

You'll change your mind when you find the one. The one that isn't nervy, bites like a demon, drives out the ass, but is cuddly and settles in the house. You'll go mal and you'll never go back


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

It's easy as a decoy to get turned off from them till you have one on your own because you'll see a lot of crazy ones that abuse their weak handlers and act like total idiots but if you're raising nice sport shepherds you'll raise a nice mal too provided it's not a loser.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

llombardo said:


> Blitzkrieg1 said:
> 
> 
> > Good Mals dont come cheap, I dont see pet people ruining the breed. Ultimately our club is shooting to get our dogs to the FMBB, our dogs and dogs that compete there are not from some random dog or backyard nor will they ever be.
> ...


Yep you certainly get it. 

Some people just can't see the full picture. They think people's buying principles replicate their own. 

No two peoples utility is the same. its ridiculous when people comment on their own buying choices. And can't think out the box other than their own personal understanding of the world.

On large scale markets.. On supply/demand... What people want...

Frankly has absolutely nothing to do with working with dogs. It has more to do with understanding economics/marketing/profit maximisation.

Also we have clearly seen how in popular breeds good breeding is masked with bad at the same price points.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I've worked some nice ones, and a lot of bad ones. I don't really like how they work. I prefer the GSDs way of thinking and problem solving. With the mals work history, I'm probably one of the only people who think this way though haha. I also think a good GSD is much easier to raise and more adaptable to different situations. Mals need a lot more environmental work.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

A good mal doesn't need the environmental work. They can keep their heads while still in drive too. There are a LOT of meh ones out there already. That's what people don't seem to realize but you've already picked up on through experience. Lots and lots of crap mals out there. To find a really nice one you have to search. It's easier to find a meh one that will still bite because they're usually crazy like that, but most are missing the rest of the package.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

WesS said:


> Frankly has absolutely nothing to do with working with dogs. It has more to do with understanding economics/marketing/profit maximisation.
> 
> .



Roger that. I always buy whatever breed wins best in show at Westminster. 2011 was a pressing year for me since a Scottish Deerhound won but luckily a Pekingese won in 2012 so they kind of averaged out the space availability situation.

Is this what you meant by understanding business forces?


SuperG


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

SuperG said:


> WesS said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly has absolutely nothing to do with working with dogs. It has more to do with understanding economics/marketing/profit maximisation.
> ...


No. And your attempt at humour here is seriously over-reaching. Is there a punchline?


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

WesS said:


> No. And your attempt at humour here is seriously over-reaching. Is there a punchline?



Super G is not being humorous. He is being sarcastic. There is a big difference. Super G is super funny if you like sarcasm. I love it.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

Cheyanna said:


> WesS said:
> 
> 
> > No. And your attempt at humour here is seriously over-reaching. Is there a punchline?
> ...


I always buy tutus... Because my grandmother was a ballerina.... 

Thing with sarcasm is, for you to funny, your message needs some sort of substance.

Sarcasm is overutilised severly  not always funny without a clear underlying message.


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

WesS said:


> I always buy tutus... Because my grandmother was a ballerina....
> 
> Thing with sarcasm is, for you to funny, your message needs some sort of substance.
> 
> Sarcasm is overutilised severly  not always funny without a clear underlying message.



That is not sarcasm. I agree it needs some substance but that substance can be lost on some people. His substance was mocking the people who put such value in Westminister dog show that it controls their choices. Now if I have to tell you the substance then yes I am saying you either lack the experience to get it or the intelligence.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

Cheyanna said:


> WesS said:
> 
> 
> > I always buy tutus... Because my grandmother was a ballerina....
> ...


He completely deviated the conversation. 

We were talking about people buying dogs for the wrong reasons. And he mocked the idea of it happening. (If you consider his previous reply too). 

Market forces are not sensitive to his Individual buying decisions as he and you assume.







and his desired sarcastic comments were not directed in the direction you think. They were directed at my preceding comments.

So his contextual ability to apply sarcastic humour to directed channels is lacking. As is your worship and understanding of that humour.

Also you seem confused by the definition of humour. You think it means something other than being funny. Maybe you need a thesaurus more than anything else







.

If you don't know what that is. Get a dictionary and work your way forward.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> We were talking about people buying dogs for the wrong reasons.


Or was it an open discussion based loosely on Mals and influence of this film


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

MadLab said:


> > We were talking about people buying dogs for the wrong reasons.
> 
> 
> Or was it an open discussion based loosely on Mals and influence of this film


 he directly quoted of me on more specific points.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> Frankly has absolutely nothing to do with working with dogs.
> 
> It has more to do with understanding economics/marketing/profit maximisation.


I guess he is implying to not take it too seriously.

It is dog breeding not e-commerce


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

MadLab said:


> > Frankly has absolutely nothing to do with working with dogs.
> >
> > It has more to do with understanding economics/marketing/profit maximisation.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of what happens with dogs and mass breeding practises with no ethics, just bottom lines is animal abuse. registries the biggest culprits, because they make the big bucks. Popular media. Big organisations legitimise it.

But there is a lot sinister happening. People just have blinders on.

And it is commerce. A lot of it is big big money. Some of it is to just make a quick small buck. At the end the dogs suffer for human niches which are unnecessary. People think it's not abuse because of popular media. The sooner it is identified as abuse, people might think differently.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

So whos at fault?

The Film producers or what?


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

MadLab said:


> So whos at fault?
> 
> The Film producers or what?


No film producers are not at fault. 

But it certainly will have a negative effect with the uncontrolled breeding practises and channels available for anyone to do it and profit from it. Irrelevant of what a breed represents or what it is meant to be.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I think the growth in awareness has been here before the film.

Why people go for Mals has been discussed here at length anyways. It is a natural course I think but everything is influenced/informed by the internet these days. 

I believe there is a growth in knowledge and that's a good thing


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> Irrelevant of what a breed represents or what it is meant to be.


See what does the Mal represent. I don't really see the grandiose vision of a GS being applied to a Mal.

I see pit bull in there. Must be my blocky head. Definitely lines of Dutch shepherd have mixed blood. 

IMO They are breeding for utility not elegance or keeping a vision alive.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

MadLab said:


> > Irrelevant of what a breed represents or what it is meant to be.
> 
> 
> See what does the Mal represent. I don't really see the grandiose vision of a GS being applied to a Mal.
> ...


What does mal represent? Not for me to say...

That's where the experienced dog men come in that work the dogs.

What does it not represent? I can tell you many things. 
It does not represent byb breeders matching any two dogs. And selling pups for profit. They don't represent a conformation beauty contest. They don't represent many things.

Either way.. There is no changing the fact that the big consumer mechanism and akc standards getting mass registries will happen. Byb will exploit market demand. Puppy mills will exploit market demand.

And market demand to be met will breed more dogs to disperse due to movie. I would rather see better breeders charging more for good dogs and placing them well rather than the usual all inclusive market boom.


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

WesS you sure do like to fight or argue. Are you a lawyer? I think I remember from the doctor thread ... You are Canadian? Might explain your non-American spelling of humor. Seems like Canadian words have an extra u. The French influence?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

WesS,

I apologize if my sarcasm.....intended as a cynical rejoinder of your somewhat Utopian remarks, ruffled your feathers. I'm pretty damned certain, regardless of what is said in this forum regarding a movie and a breed of dog...."que sera sera".

You love controversy, so at least give me a point or two for giving you a can of corn.


SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Cheyanna said:


> WesS you sure do like to fight or argue. Are you a lawyer? I think I remember from the doctor thread ... You are Canadian? Might explain your non-American spelling of humor. Seems like Canadian words have an extra u. The French influence?


Reminds me more of a Lykoz....but call me crazy.


SuperG


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

Cheyanna said:


> WesS you sure do like to fight or argue. Are you a lawyer? I think I remember from the doctor thread ... You are Canadian? Might explain your non-American spelling of humor. Seems like Canadian words have an extra u. The French influence?


English hails from England . Any deviation in spelling well... Call it french, or Canadian...
There is only one real source of English. And thats how the word humour is spelled. American English is a deviation. So I would appreciate you not correcting my grammar, when it is in fact correct.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

SuperG said:


> WesS,
> 
> I apologize if my sarcasm.....intended as a cynical rejoinder of your somewhat Utopian remarks, ruffled your feathers. I'm pretty damned certain, regardless of what is said in this forum regarding a movie and a breed of dog...."que sera sera".
> 
> ...


No controversy. Hiding behind poor humour so that you can hide poor comments. 

Well... At least make it funny, so we can have a laugh.
P.S. Your first edgy remark was enough to get your point. You really didnt have to do your apparent 'sarcasm' thing twice to mock me on exactly the same moot point.


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## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

I did some PR work this past week with my female Malinois. Most people had no idea what kind of dog she was (she is rather petite) and the few people that had seen the movie was surprisingly educated as to what it takes to have a working Malinois. Sure, we did encounter a few people that said "my next dog will be a Malinois", and I did my best in trying to describe the work that goes into having a high drive working dog, but I think most of it completely fell on def ears. But hopefully the portion about "if you are going to buy one anyway at least contact a reputable breeder" made at least people think. All I can do is try to educate when people have already made their mind up about what they want.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I remember investigating Belgian shepherds years ago, I almost ended up with a Tervuren, seemed like a spirited noble creature. Question...excuse my ignorance...is there a marked difference in the variants of Belgian shepherds besides superficial qualities?


SuperG


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

There can be. There are showline versions of the Groenendael, Tervuren, and Laekenois which really act nothing quite like the working line malinois. 

The Tervs and Groenendael's I've seen in person had practically zero working ability. I've seen decent ones out there but the ones I've dealt with in person are mostly for show and bred for looks. There are working line Terv breeders out there. I don't know if I've ever actually seen a Laekenois.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

What Bailiff said. I have and bred one litter of working-line tervuren. Both sire and dam are out of malinois parents. The pups are all malinois in behavior, temperament, etc. Just like a long-coat GSD is the same aside from coat length. There are a few popular malinois studs that seem to throw long-coat malinois (tervuren anywhere but here per AKC). My litter was reg'd with the Can. Kennel Club (CKC) as they recognize all four Belgians under one umbrella, so a litter could have both reg'd malinois and tervuren, per coat type of individual pups. European registries that I've investigated are the same. AKC is the only registry I've seen that considers tervuren and malinois separate breeds. 

Here is a Swedish working-line tervuren that went to FMBB this summer. If I ever breed again (may not, as good homes are hard to find particularly for long-coats), I would consider using him. Nice dog. Krokasmedens Wolverine ? working-dog. Or this working-line tervuren, who is ring-3, Berkana D'Jo ? working-dog. Here's a male out of my breeding Gulo Gulo's Axl ? working-dog

So, it all depends on the lines. The show-line tervuren I've seen are a totally different dog than the working line. I've heard of many issues with nerves and shyness, along with health problems like epilepsy. I also am not a fan of their head shape, coat, or coloring... but to each his own.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Baillif said:


> There can be. There are showline versions of the Groenendael, Tervuren, and Laekenois which really act nothing quite like the working line malinois.
> 
> The Tervs and Groenendael's I've seen in person had practically zero working ability. I've seen decent ones out there but the ones I've dealt with in person are mostly for show and bred for looks. There are working line Terv breeders out there. I don't know if I've ever actually seen a Laekenois.



I've seen/worked a couple SL mals as well. Umm.... Well things that had a slight physical resemblance to a mal. They win shows, but about crapped themselves when the burlap on the end of the flirt pole moved.


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## kburrow11 (Jan 31, 2014)

WesS said:


> English hails from England . Any deviation in spelling well... Call it french, or Canadian...
> There is only one real source of English. And thats how the word humour is spelled. American English is a deviation. So I would appreciate you not correcting my grammar, when it is in fact correct.


Actually, American English is the original, correct way of speaking. When the colonies were founded, Americans and British spoke the same way. Americans haven't deviated from that hardly at all. However, shortly after the Revolutionary War, the British adopted a 'posh' accent and way of speaking, to show a difference between them and commoners. This has become known as Received Pronunciation. The only American accents that aren't the original way of speaking are New Yorker and Bostonian. 

Why Do Americans and Brits Have Different Accents? | When Did American and British Accents Diverge? | English Pronunciation


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

kburrow11 said:


> WesS said:
> 
> 
> > English hails from England
> ...


All Americans don't sound the same. All English don't sound the same.

The world is much bigger than just the USA. Other countries have dialects too. Dialects over history and time. So your claims on accent is ridiculous.

England existed and had a language, before America was ever founded... So I don't know What on earth America has anything to do with that.

America was not the only British colony... It astounds me that you think this way.


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## kburrow11 (Jan 31, 2014)

WesS said:


> All Americans don't sound the same. All English don't sound the same.
> 
> The world is much bigger than just the USA. Other countries have dialects too. Dialects over history and time. So your claims on accent is ridiculous.
> 
> ...


The thing is, you're stating that American English is a deviation, when in reality it isn't, it's kept the original pronunciation and spelling, and British English and all other English dialects deviated from it after the colonies were founded.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

kburrow11 said:


> WesS said:
> 
> 
> > All Americans don't sound the same. All English don't sound the same.
> ...


http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Histengl/spelling.html

Here is an actual academic article.

Original English is based of Latin and in Latin it was originally based on phonetic principles.

Americans kept regional dialect/spelling to differentiate themselves and show further independence from Britain who they fought wars of independence against. They standardised these norms based in America and nowhere else. The world is a much bigger place than USA. And as they say the sun never set in the old British empire.

Short of forming their own language. They made it their 'own'.

American spelling is more a form of patriotism and independence than anything sembling being first, original or correct.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

As long as they're calling them malinwahs and not malinoise I'm cool with whatever version of English is being used.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

there is a reason that so many news ankers in the USA are Canadian -- Peter Jennings , Kevin Newman, John Roberts, Bob McKeon , Keith Morrison, Morley Safer.

The CBC uses BBC "Queen's English" 

George Bernard Shaw wrote Pymalion , which you probably know from the musical/movie My Fair Lady , in which he instructs a street person to not use colloquial language and to change grammar and dialect for the perceived upper class posh Queen's English.

The difference is that English is a living language and took in many words from all lands and ages . American spelling is geared towards how it actually sounds when spoken.

English can do that . And that is a good thing , whether you spell it fiber or fibre .


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

All those guys are Canadian? I had no idea. Some good things come out of Canada. Jake Doyle and littlest hobo are my favorite. My Canadian friend said there was a store called Brewers retail, but Americans didn't know what it was and changed the name to beer store. His wife and I both thought it was a store to buy stuff to brew beer.

Being Mohawk, the Rez covers NY and Canada. I could be a First Nations.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

carmspack said:


> there is a reason that so many news ankers in the USA are Canadian -- Peter Jennings , Kevin Newman, John Roberts, Bob McKeon , Keith Morrison, Morley Safer.
> 
> The CBC uses BBC "Queen's English"
> 
> ...


You do realise americans have strong accents? Highly variable from state to state? And distinguishably different from the Many countries that speak english?

So I ask you... How can american spelling be geared to how 'it actually sounds'. When there is no universal way it sounds.

You could correctly say maybe, its geared towards how it 'sounds' in America. But I think that too would be a strong statement. And contrary to the article I attached.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

This is so off topic and veering into personal bickering. 

And since I'm an Admin, and Canadian, I have the advantange of posting a few final words:

HONOUR, FLAVOUR, CENTRE, NEIGHBOURHOOD, COLOUR, LITRE. 

Locked.


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