# confronted by a pit..but my fault?



## jang (May 1, 2011)

Sib and I were just on a walk around the block..she was on a long line and just sniffin' around..We came to a house where a small terrier type ran to the fence and Sib wanted to fence fight..(my fault I know)..I was getting Sib in a sit when a pit came charging from same fenced yard..Sib got really riled this time..but then the pit got out of the fence and charged us..I tried to keep Sib calm..didn't, and the pit tried to nail Sib..I came between them and kicked at the pit and told her go home..off ..anything I could think of to get her away from us..but she kept circling...I kept kicking at her but by now was getting tangled in the long leash...That when the pits owner came out and collected his dog and apologized for the incident..But, I know in my heart it was my fault for not controlling Sib..I just don't think I will ever get Sib to be the dog I want her to be nor will I ever be the leader she needs...Comments?


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

What a tough situation for you to be in. Even experienced handlers are taken by surprise. 

First off, be thankful that nothing serious happened. 

My thoughts based on what you wrote:

If you know that Sib will "fence fight" don't give him full leash - when you are walking near a fence (regardless of whether he will challenge it or not), reel him in close to you. This way you have better control over him. It's much easier to control a dog on a 3-foot leash than a 10-foot line. 

If you can, talk to someone that you know has a dog "behind" their fence. See if they can let the dog out while you and Sib are walking by - short leash. Stand there and watch your dog's reaction - and be ready to correct / interrupt BEFORE he gets revved up. Make him sit / make him focus, whatever it is you do to work with him to get his attention off the fence. 

I worked on this with Kyleigh when she was very young. I would literally stand on the sideway while the other dog was barking up a storm (either behind a fence, or from the front window), and I would play with her, engage her, whatever until I was the MOST interesting thing in the world. After a couple of sessions - she will walk by ANY yard regardless of what's going on - she'll look over, but there is no more "reaction."

Yeah, you screwed up ... so what? We all do, we all will continue to ... you made a mistake, move on ... trust me, your dog is not holding a grudge because you screwed up! Only you can make yourself feel worse. 

Your dog will only be what you want him to be ... you have to have the expectations of your dog, and then the willingness, patience, consistency and knowledge to follow through on everything. 

Have you thought of getting a professional trainer for some one-on-one sessions - even one or two sessions can be VERY helpful?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The only thing I question is the long lead...you'll never control your dog on a long lead. I'll never control my dog on a long lead if there is another dog attacking us. I don't expect my dog to sit/down when there is an aggressor around, I don't really know why anyone would.

I don't really know the history of you and Sib, but you're not really helping by leaving your dog on a long lead. In most places, leashed means 6 ft leash and not just any length of rope tied to your dog. Did you know that retractable leashes wouldn't count as having your dog leashed if anything ever happened? I question the need for a long line in this situation, my dog is controllable and obedient but I still only walk him on a 6 ft leash. That's enough freedom for him, if I'm not around streets/population I'll let him off, but if we're in civilization I prefer to keep him close to me.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

ah...that was not your fault. your dog was on a leash, the other dog came barrelling out of its yard. you did well


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

As soon as Sib sees a fenced dog she gets excited..Under normal circumstances I put her in a sit and make her settle ...then a leave it and she usually is ok..However, Sib fence fights with the neighbors dogs and I can't get it to stop..I am considering an e collar as she also will run across the street when the neighbors garage door is open..NOTHING will stop her...Normally she responds well to commands..just under these two instances is she out of control...I am also considering taking her back to classes for this behavior but cannot do that til after the first of the year..She is a really good dog...just a lack of focus.(respect)


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

I have many leads but use the long one for casual block walks..I did not know that about the retractable leashes..This is why I spend so much time on this forum..Always a wealth of info..Guess it is back to day one..again..Thanks for you replies..


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

jang said:


> As soon as Sib sees a fenced dog she gets excited..Under normal circumstances I put her in a sit and make her settle ...then a leave it and she usually is ok..However, Sib fence fights with the neighbors dogs and I can't get it to stop..I am considering an e collar as she also will run across the street when the neighbors garage door is open..NOTHING will stop her...Normally she responds well to commands..just under these two instances is she out of control...I am also considering taking her back to classes for this behavior but cannot do that til after the first of the year..She is a really good dog...just a lack of focus.(respect)


Alice used to do this kind of reactivity. I think the key is a 6 foot leash with practice on the "heel". Oh, and consistancy. Being consistant is the key to leadership. At one point it took me 45 minutes to walk a block. Frustrating at the time, but well worth the time investment.
On the other hand, I think that you did good protecting your dog.
*If you find a trainer/behaviorist that recommends flexi-leads it's the same as a cardiologist buying you a pack of smokes*


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## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

No it's NOT your fault.
Under NO Circumstances should that Pit be able to get out of the yard once it did then it was ALL the owners fault.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

jang said:


> Sib and I were just on a walk around the block..she was on a long line and just sniffin' around..We came to a house where a *small terrier type ran to the fence and Sib wanted to fence fight*..(my fault I know)..*I was getting Sib in a sit* when a pit came charging from same fenced yard..


I'm not sure what your purpose was to ask Sib to sit while still at the fence where your dog is being reactive, and the terrier is being reactive. You were walking Sib past the fence. If she reacts to the other dog, do you think it would be better for Sib to understand that no reaction is allowed and she is to continue to move forward?


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Lilie said:


> I'm not sure what your purpose was to ask Sib to sit while still at the fence where your dog is being reactive, and the terrier is being reactive. You were walking Sib past the fence. If she reacts to the other dog, do you think it would be better for Sib to understand that no reaction is allowed and she is to continue to move forward?


 
Good point, I also used to try this and my boss told me I should work on a strong LEAVE IT and keep walking. "power by it" The dog being next to the handler.

Now, as far as the loose dog, I've been attacked twice like that in my neighborhood by Labs charging out of the house and over the picket fence in front and I can speak from experience: an aggressive charge is an aggressive charge, don't care what breed it's coming from.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Maggies Dad said:


> No it's NOT your fault.
> Under NO Circumstances should that Pit be able to get out of the yard once it did then it was ALL the owners fault.


Really? The way I read it was that her dog was sniffing by a fence on someone else's property? I also read it as that pit was in all technicality on its own property...just because it was outside the fence line doesn't mean that the dog can't protect its own property. Most of us would not have any issue with our dogs doing this when a strange dog comes onto our lawn or into its property.

I have a feeling as soon as PIT is mentioned, no matter what that dog does is wrong. And the GSD is the little angel on the end of a 10+ foot leash having a fight with a little terrier on the other side of a fence.

Neither dog was under control, one dog was on the other dog's property. Sorry, my belief is that if you can't voice control your dog 100%, and you are in that large of a populated area where there are other dogs, you need to keep that dog on a short leash and be able to control it. If for nothing else than not having any legal responsibility.

We have a West Highland White Terrier in the family, if we were at that house with my boy, and some other dog comes up to the fence to try and "fight" the small terrier...I would not have any issues with my boy standing up for his pack and tacking care of business.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

.


Lilie said:


> I'm not sure what your purpose was to ask Sib to sit while still at the fence where your dog is being reactive, and the terrier is being reactive. You were walking Sib past the fence. If she reacts to the other dog, do you think it would be better for Sib to understand that no reaction is allowed and she is to continue to move forward?


Well, how do you teach that if not by calming her and having her stop reacting?


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

martemchik said:


> Really? The way I read it was that her dog was sniffing by a fence on someone else's property? I also read it as that pit was in all technicality on its own property...just because it was outside the fence line doesn't mean that the dog can't protect its own property. Most of us would not have any issue with our dogs doing this when a strange dog comes onto our lawn or into its property.
> 
> I have a feeling as soon as PIT is mentioned, no matter what that dog does is wrong. And the GSD is the little angel on the end of a 10+ foot leash having a fight with a little terrier on the other side of a fence.
> 
> ...


I appreciate what you are saying and I did not have Sib under control..However, we were on the sidewalk not sniffing up against the fence...And, I am NOT a pit hater..I was afraid yesterday and would have been with any dog under those conditions.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

I also don't think my gsd is an angel and all others are evil..or whatever you said..I admitted I was wrong...but what I need to know is how to do things Right...While on the long lead I bring her in many times when we are approaching a yard with a fenced dog..this one just came at me as a surprise...


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

jang said:


> .
> 
> Well, how do you teach that if not by calming her and having her stop reacting?


You keep walking.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Kyleigh said:


> What a tough situation for you to be in. Even experienced handlers are taken by surprise.
> 
> First off, be thankful that nothing serious happened.
> 
> ...


Super advice!

Don't stop and try to regain control after you have lost control. be proactive. Watch for the first signs of Sib reacting, stop then and work obedience.

But yes.... you do need a willing property owner. I would be ticked if someone started doing obedience in front of my yard with my dog going bonkers.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

As a side note..when I have Sib on the long lead I bring her in many times during the walk and always when we are passing a house with other dogs..This one surprised me and I was not as prepared as I should have been..I thought this was a good practice to work on her recall..let her go out a ways then call her back to my side..I am here to learn and I appreciate all opinions..


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

dogs fence fight because you let her out there to defend her territory from aggressive dogs when other nasty dogs are out there. you put her in ugly situations. She shouldn't ever be in a situation where she would have the chance to fence fight. IF you own the property just get double wooden fencing on the side the dogs are at only its cheap. . If not you gota talk with your next door and find out when you can alternate dogs being outdoors.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

pets4life said:


> dogs fence fight because you let her out there to defend her territory from aggressive dogs when other nasty dogs are out there. you put her in ugly situations. She shouldn't ever be in a situation where she would have the chance to fence fight. IF you own the property just get double wooden fencing on the side the dogs are at only its cheap. . If not you gota talk with your next door and find out when you can alternate dogs being outdoors.


Thats a good idea and my neighbor and I have begun working together to settle this behavior down...


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

the fencing is actually already made and cheap from stores like home depot like five foot high just tie it to your chain link they are about 12 feet long each i think. YOu dont even have to put them in the ground. Inbetween the chaink link and your ready made fence you can put some ply wood board just so your dog cant see the other dogs and go crazy Just in case.


give her bones and toys and stuff to keep her busy


trust me it will work my dog didnt like the car lot dog next door either i fixed it in a matter of hours and she doesnt know it exists now lol


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

You maybe should have had him on a shorter lead BUT the pit should not be able to get out of his yard either. He might be defending his yard but loose he is a dog at large.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Benny used to be highly reactive to dogs in fenced front yards who would run at him. I weigh only 7 pounds more then he and once he started fighting back I couldn't contain him .

I taught him solid leave it, look at me ,and heel and worked him across the street, far enough from the other dog so he would not react and gradually decreased the distance. I would never ask a dog to sit while another dog is fence fighting because sitting; especially if they are making eye contact with the other dog will just amp them up.

He is good now, but I still avoid passing close by houses where I know dogs will run out to fence fight because I don't want issues if the fence breaks.

I use a 4 ft or 6 ft leash on walks around town. The long line is just for recall at the park or tracking.

Many dogs who fence fight are just posturing. We had a dog, happened to be a pit, who was running along a fenced yard barking at Benny and happened to break through to our side. Immediately the dogs viciousness melted and he ha a look like "my bad, just kiddin" and rolled over on his back!:rofl:


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

If there is no threat to your dog and the other dog is going bonkers on the other side of the fence / in the living room window ... what is so wrong with having your dog sit and ignore the other dog? This is what I was suggesting. 

You are teaching your dog to ingore distractions. And once your dog can ignore dogs going bonkers on the other side of the fence / through living room windows you won't have to worry about your dog making eye contact with the other dog, thus ... no challenging. You simply walk by and laugh with your dog at the crazy dog on the other side of the fence!

I agree that if a dog is charging you / your dog - placing your dog in a sit is the dumbest thing to do, you're just making him a target.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

My issue with working on sit and leave it right in front of the other dog is also that it's kind of mean to the other dog. You might be working on settling your dog, but if there's nobody to settle the other dog, it is working itself into a frenzy, and frankly, you're probably setting your dog up to fail, as it's unlikely you'll be able to get your dogs focus back onto you.

If something should happen, like what happened to the OP, then the other dog is now seeing red and I don't see how you could avoid a full dog fight at that point.

I think increasing the distance and having more control with a shorter leash is good advice. Keep moving and keep working on it. I think once your dog does better with that, you could work on the sit and ignore the other dog from a greater distance.

OP - as was stated, we all make mistakes. Things like this happen so quickly, you did great at protecting your dog (and the other dog). Next time you'll be more prepared.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I agree with some of your post LOL ... which is why I added dogs in a living room window. My neighbour has two cairn terriers that go absolutely ballistic when they see Kyleigh outside. They are in the living room window ... you can hear them clearly, and you can also hear the window rattling (good thing they're small LOL). Is it mean to the other dogs? Personally, I wouldn't leave my dogs out in the house to bark constantly at every single thing that walks by (which they do), and for a 30-45 second time period that I'm working with my dog, I don't really think it's mean to the other dog. 

The first couple of times Kyleigh heard them she barked back. I took this opportunity (my neighbours were NOT home at the time to hear their dogs) to simply stand in my driveway, have Kyleigh in a sit and looking at me. 

She would look over, but if she barked I gave a quick correction on her leash (martingale) and said NO BARK. 

After three sessions of this she doesn't even look over to that yard / window when the dogs are barking at her. She simply ignores them because I let her know that they weren't a threat. 

I agree that with fence, it can cause the other dog to become more aggressive ... but the dog behind the fence will USUALLY only get more aggressive if there is a response from the dog on the other side of the fence. 

Kyleigh and I walk past numerous fenced in dogs and I did the same thing with her. I would stop for a couple of seconds and have her sit. If she turned to bark / charge the other dog, a quick correction / leave it, and we would move ahead 10 feet and then I would have her sit again. 10 seconds later we move on. 

Do the people appreciate me "teaching" my dog with their dog? Honestly, I am not really there long enough ... 30 - 45 seconds and we are moving on. 

Now, please keep in mind, I did this with Kyleigh as a puppy ... no "previous" experiences with her to work through, so training her was much easier than a dog that had already displayed issues on leash / charging, etc. 

This was why I suggested that the OP contact someone that has a dog on the other side of the fence so they could both work it through.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I guess I'm going by my dog who's a bit leash aggressive (out of fear until she meets the other dog). 

There is no way I'd be able to get her attention in 30-45 seconds. lol Maybe 30-45 minutes when she tired herself out a bit 

And yeah, I think if they're secure and inside the house, then you don't have the danger, nor are they able to make eye contact (unless it's really close), so in that situation it's maybe easier to work with your dog.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

!

I agree that if a dog is charging you / your dog - placing your dog in a sit is the dumbest thing to do, you're just making him a target.[/QUOTE]


Nicely put.....


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

if that had been me, i wouldn't have made him sit close to the fence. he was clearly not ready for that experience. not that you had any control over the pit bull, but having your dog near the fence feuled both dogs. definitely need to counter condition at distance and this can take a while. i would also avoid any known aggressive dog behind fences, this isn't going to help your dog. set him up in successful situations that you both can handle. i would also carry some kind of deterant spray to keep you guys safe. unfortunately these situations can happen. we all have had situations where we could kick ourselves and wished we'd done something different. with time and conditioning and common sense about exposure to things you will get there.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

debbiebrown said:


> if that had been me, i wouldn't have made him sit close to the fence. he was clearly not ready for that experience. not that you had any control over the pit bull, but having your dog near the fence feuled both dogs. definitely need to counter condition at distance and this can take a while. i would also avoid any known aggressive dog behind fences, this isn't going to help your dog. set him up in successful situations that you both can handle. i would also carry some kind of deterant spray to keep you guys safe. unfortunately these situations can happen. we all have had situations where we could kick ourselves and wished we'd done something different. with time and conditioning and common sense about exposure to things you will get there.


I am sorry if I did not make this clear..We were on the sidewalk the pit behind the fence..Since this a very small neighborhood ..only one walk available, I went for another walk yesterday...I carried a stick this time and intended to walk right on by...however the pits neighbor stopped me having had seen the event last week..she told me that the pit has jumped the fence and attacked her 2 dogs and she has called AC..Last night I heard of another attack of a border collie by same pit...There is going to be a petition going around to get the pit out of the neighborhood..I am reluctant to be part of anything that looks like breed bashing and don't know what to do..sign or don't sign..However, I do believe the dog is a detriment to our neighborhood...Please don't take this as pit bashing,,,any dog who is this aggressive is a problem..


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

jang said:


> I am sorry if I did not make this clear..We were on the sidewalk the pit behind the fence..Since this a very small neighborhood ..only one walk available, I went for another walk yesterday...I carried a stick this time and intended to walk right on by...however the pits neighbor stopped me having had seen the event last week..she told me that the pit has jumped the fence and attacked her 2 dogs and she has called AC..Last night I heard of another attack of a border collie by same pit...There is going to be a petition going around to get the pit out of the neighborhood..I am reluctant to be part of anything that looks like breed bashing and don't know what to do..sign or don't sign..However, I do believe the dog is a detriment to our neighborhood...Please don't take this as pit bashing,,,any dog who is this aggressive is a problem..


It is not breed bashing. If the dog got out once, and the owner immediately took proactive steps to secure the dog, that would be one thing.
But its sounds like the dog has gotten out many times and the owner has not made changes to keep the neighborhood, and the pit, safe.
Whole 'nother ballgame.... IMO.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

As to the concept some here have espoused... of working your dog in front of the madly barking dog in the window or behind a fence..... PLEASE rethink doing that.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

ok..thanks


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

if it were me, until the Pit problem gets resolved in your neighborhood and i hope it does. i would take your dog in the car somewhere safer to walk. its not good to keep exposing him to negative experiences with this dog. its unfortunate that you cannot safely walk in your neighborhood, but its happens.


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