# Another newbie question :)



## Charmander52 (Oct 21, 2011)

I've been reading pretty much everything I have time for on this forum, and I have a question that is probably somewhat dumb. 
If you're only getting a GSD strictly as a pet, no showing or anything (except maybe protection ), why is it a bad idea to go to the local classifieds?
I know a lot of you have purebreds that you got from breeders & backyard breeders usually probably aren't the best way to go, but I'm just curious. Even backyard bred pups need good homes.  Nah, just kidding. But I am curious.
:crazy:


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If you don't do your research and go with a classified ad..you may end up with a temperamental nightmare. Some good breeders advertise in the newspaper, but most good breeders don't have to.
Of course they all need good homes, instead of classifieds, look at rescues or shelter dogs. Don't support a breeder that is not doing the breed any favors.


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## Charmander52 (Oct 21, 2011)

I know, a lot of people have also talked about rescue dogs and shelter dogs (both of my family's past dogs came from the humane society), but... isn't it quite likely that at least some of those dogs are from backyard breeders originally? I guess I'm just a little confused.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Yes they probably are, but if you pull from a shelter or support a rescue, you are not giving a BYB or miller financial support to continue their breeding practices.
Rescues usually will have vetted, evaluated and try to match the pup/dog with the right owner so the chance of return is slim. Pulling from a shelter is a risk, you may be taking on medical or training issues so need to be dedicated in helping the animal, the paybacks are usually 100x's what you put into it though!


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## Charmander52 (Oct 21, 2011)

Ah, I see. 
I think part of the thing is, around my area pretty much any dog has come off a farm, or by the terms on here, backyard bred. I don't think there are too many "good" breeders around. 
Guess I'm just used to that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Go to the classifieds. That is not the end of the world, but make sure the breeder is paying attention to the health of their dogs, and go visit them, check out the cleanliness, look at the pedigree of the sire and dam and make sure they aren't breeding father to daughter, brother to sister, grandfather, to grand daughter etc. 

Inbreeding is something people who are not really, really into it should mess with. 

Talk with the people. Temperament and health are the two biggies. Health will be gaged by health screenings, and knowledge of the dogs' ancestors. Temperament is gaged by what the owner does with the dogs. For someone who has titled many dogs, and been into dogs forever, and has a good name, I would not be as worried about it, and just listen to what they are saying about the dog. But for someone starting out, or doing this on a small scale, titles give you a bit of a second opinion, the dog is trainable, the dog can work around people, dogs, distractions. 

You will likely pay less, and you may not have every duck in a row. But pay attention to temperament and health. 

For pet owners, going with a good breeder is your best bet at getting a healthy dog with good temperament. 

Lastly, you want to encourage breeding and give your money to those people who are breeding with a purpose, with attention to details like character traits, health, genetics, etc., and to people who care about the breed, not just their own dogs. To most of us it is worth spending more money to go with someone who is going the extra mile and doing things right. Giving money to people who are just putting two dogs together is encouraging breeding for all the wrong reasons.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Well, look at what they are breeding and decide if that is what you want to live with for hopefully the next 10-12 yrs. Look at the parents if possible, ask about allergies, digestion sensitivities, and hope that the hips/elbows are ok...because usually the breeders on farms don't do much in the way of health testing.
We got our first GSD from a dairy farm in the early 80's he was a great dog, and lived to be 11...died of bloat, but was overall healthy and stable temperament. 
No papers or pedigree, and the guy only charged us like $30 so it wasn't a breeder out to make $.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

And since they aren't advertising in the paper or the yellow pages, it is hard to know whether there are any good breeders around your area. Some good places to check are German Shepherd Dog clubs (look it up on the internet for some in your state) they may be able to send you to people in driving distance. Also local training clubs might know of GSD breeders -- who to or who not to go to.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Charmander52 said:


> Ah, I see.
> I think part of the thing is, around my area pretty much any dog has come off a farm, or by the terms on here, backyard bred. I don't think there are too many "good" breeders around.
> Guess I'm just used to that.


_Most_ backyard- bred dogs are randomly mated. Someone with a female Shepherd breeds her to a male because he is convenient. Either they own him, or someone they know owns him. Often, the dogs have no hip, elbow, or health certifications, and nothing has been done to test their temperament beyond daily living in the house, yard, or farm. 

By contrast, a good breeder tests their dogs' temperament by taking them to competitions like obedience, tracking, protection, agility, herding, etc to test what the dog is like under pressure. In the act of training for competition, you learn a lot about your dog's natural biddability, nerves, intelligence, and temperament that you just can't learn from having the dog live as a pet. 

A good breeder will submit a dog's hip and elbow x-rays to a certifying body to make sure the dog is orthopedically sound. It is becoming more and more common for breeders to test for other genetic issues as well.

Finally, a good breeder studies genetics. Instead of just throwing two dogs together, they study the bloodlines for many generations to try to achieve exactly what they are looking for in their puppies. 

Far from being "just a pet" a pet German Shepherd needs to have great temperament, sound nerves, and be healthy and structurally sound _just as much as_ a top show dog or protection dog. 

With rescues and shelters, you have the adult dog there in front of you. It's not an 8-week old puppy that you have no idea what he'll be like. With an adult, you can check to see what the dog himself is like with kids, what his nerves are like, etc. You can even have him looked over by your vet before deciding to adopt him. 

To me, buying or adopting an adult is the _least_ risky, followed by buying from a good breeder, followed very distantly by buying from a newspaper or Craigslist breeder.


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## Charmander52 (Oct 21, 2011)

So basically, good breeders just spend a lot more time on what they're doing vs. the farmer who has puppies? 
I get what you're all saying though.  Might take some getting used to though, where I'm from a lot of people think you're nuts if you spend more than $200 on a dog. 
I actually have surfed our local humane society's site quite a bit (just in case!), sadly they don't usually get too many GSDs in. I think I've only seen 2 or 3 in the last several years.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I remember in a previous post you said you were in the SD, IA region, right? 

I did a petfinder search for male German Shepherds around Sioux City (I have relatives there). Some mixes and some purebreds:
Pet Search Results: Adoptable German Shepherd Dog Dog Pets in Sioux City, IA: Petfinder


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## Charmander52 (Oct 21, 2011)

Yep, that general area. Thanks for the site, I'll have to keep an eye on that one too. Bookmark!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Charmander52 said:


> where I'm from a lot of people think you're nuts if you spend more than $200 on a dog.


See, I don't understand this. I spend more time with my dogs than I spend with my husband (he travels for work). Why would I buy a dog out of a classified ad from a backyard breeder? Most people do more research and spend more money on a laptop computer or home appliance than they do on a dog that's going to be their constant companion for the next 10-15 years. If your oven breaks, you have some bad food and you get the repairman out to fix it. If your dog has hip problems it can be life-altering, and if your dog has poor temperament and bites a kid it can be fatal.

I spent about $500 for the laptop I'm typing this on and it probably won't last 4 or 5 years. I bought it less than a year ago and it's already obsolete. Why in God's name would I spend $200 on a dog I'll spend the next 10-15 years with?


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## Charmander52 (Oct 21, 2011)

Midwestern farmers.  A lot of them save for years to buy farm equipment to help them and their families to be more productive and really only keep dogs for pets or protection, etc., don't necessarily have them as friends. Maybe that's why I don't really see too many GSDs since it sounds from the forum like they need more attention & interaction, etc. LOTS of labs though. I think for most folk around here it's a priorities thing, if that makes sense. New tractor to increase production vs. purebred puppy.  Granted, not all of them are like this but many that I know are.


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

There really is no reason that you shouldn't go to the local classified ads to look for a puppy. However, in doing so you still must do your homework in so far as the breeder is concerned. All things must be in place - quality of breeding (parents), confirmation of good solid temperament (parents), health (parents), puppy care once whelped (shots, wormings, vet checks and on and on) - - - you get the picture.

I have to say that I've always been a bit disturbed the term "backyard breeder". Even when we were breeding horses the term always hinted at inferiority. I wish we could come up with a better term. Many of the so-called backyard breeders are very conscientious and put excellent puppies on the ground. The same rules apply - do your homework.


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

ooppss - - - almost forgot

:welcome: ABOARD!


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## Charmander52 (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks.  
Yeah, I think the backyard breeder term was probably part of my confusion. Like I said, around here that's most of the dogs you'll find, and I've met a lot that are sweethearts (again, mostly labs, but still). Then I came on here and everyone was saying not to get dogs like that lol... I know I should do my homework either way, it was just a totally different viewpoint on dogs from what I'm used to, so it was getting a little overwhelming.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

If you can get a dog out of the newspaper, and the parents have certified hips and elbows and the owners _do_ something with the dogs to test temperament like I mentioned, then it might be worth investigating. 

I don't much care for the term "backyard breeder" either, but it's just shorthand for someone breeding pets without due diligence. I'd stay away from Craigslist, though. It's against the rules to post puppies for sale, and I just don't have much respect for a breeder who violates the rules when they sell their dogs.


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## Charmander52 (Oct 21, 2011)

Honestly, I'm not even sure what Craigslist is! :crazy:
If I do get a shepherd, there's a good possibility it'll be from a farm situation, but definitely I would look deeeeeep into them first. No chances taken with my cats! My sister would kill me if something happened to them.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

It's hard to tell a back yard breeder from a puppy mill. Puppy mills have learned not to let potential buyer see their tiny wire cages with dogs crammed in that can barely move and are usually on the verge of starvation. If you don't mind rewarding puppy mills with your cash, buy from an unknown breeder. 

Believe me, you will have a much better feeling about yourself if you rescue a dog from a shelter. Think about it this way: I gave the shelter money to rescue more dogs or I gave some puppy mill money to torture more dogs. 

Our local kill shelter does vaccinate and neuter their dogs, gives a full vet checkup, starts them on Heartguard and Frontline, gives you a bag of Science Diet, all before adoption. 100% health guarantee. 

Pet rescues adopt out healthy dogs and if something is wrong with the temperament or health, they are up front about it.


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## Charmander52 (Oct 21, 2011)

I know, I've read about puppy mills before.  Just around my area, there aren't a whole lot of shepherds so it can get really difficult to rescue one when there just isn't one to rescue. If I had that option, I probably would. I watch our humane society's website like a hawk, hoping they'll get a couple in. That's why I say I might have to get one from a farm breeder. Going off the others' suggestions, I'll make sure (if that is what I do) that I see both parents and make sure I think the puppies are healthy, etc. & ask for medical records, if they've had them examined by a vet, etc.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Well , the CKC used to have a monthly magazine which gave an opportunity to advertise. The CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) used to have a Breeders Annual , beautifully organized , good articles, great place to show case kennels and put your name out there. Well this no longer exists as of this year . I still have copies going back to the early 80's .
So when I do have that litter or two in a year or 18 month period I just might have to use the classifieds in the major newspaper .
Does not matter where you advertise -- everybody with a credit card or cash can do so .
Even in the Dogs In Canada Breeders Annual, or Dogs USA its sister magazine you can get the full spectrum of quality and ethics , from the professional, to the "puppy farmer" to the newby , to the best- to avoid breeders.
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

I'm in the midwest too, northern IL. Our county shelter has had a lot of purebred dogs. A couple weeks ago a lovely black and tan Afghan hound, a mastiff, a couple pekes, several shis tzu, a dobe, 3 Great Pyrenees, Labs, etc. Must be a sign of the economic times so many purebreds being surrendered. 

Anyway have you tried Pet Finder? I see GSD's on Pet Finder in Iowa, all over IL and WI, in IN, lots in TN. Often, if you work with Paws or Fresh Start or a local rescue, they will look for GSD's in kill shelters and help you adopt. The rescue may be full up, but if they know the dog will go to a foster right away, they will take one more dog they couldn't otherwise have fit. Kill shelters send out emails to rescues when they have certain dogs the rescue is interested in.

I am so proud of myself for making a difference in one little black and tan life Couldn't be happier with my rescue pup and I'm hoping to find another.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Yeah, I'm surprised you're having a hard time finding dogs in the shelter. You're in an area that's pretty well-known for puppy mills. Also check your local Craigslist for people re-homing young dogs. I see purebred, papered 8-18 month old dogs on Craigslist all the time because they enter the teenage stage and people can't handle them. Might be able to get one before he goes to the pound.

craigslist: dallas / fort worth classifieds for jobs, apartments, personals, for sale, services, community, and events.


Edit: My link is for Dallas craigslist, but you can change the area over on the right side of the page.


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## Charmander52 (Oct 21, 2011)

I know this is off the original topic but I didn't want to start a whole new thread just for this: I'm starting a budget plan for a dog and am trying to decide how much to allow for toys? Any suggestions?
Gracias.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Charmander52 said:


> I know this is off the original topic but I didn't want to start a whole new thread just for this: I'm starting a budget plan for a dog and am trying to decide how much to allow for toys? Any suggestions?
> Gracias.


Honestly not much. My dogs would rather play with sticks and rocks and cardboard boxes. It seems like the more I pay for a toy, the less they use it.  Get a large kong or chuckit ball, a chewy bone, and a Kong wubba, maybe a Cuz. If you're getting a puppy, though; get some bully sticks because those help a lot with the teething. They last a long time with little puppy teeth.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

My puppies have always LOVED to play with empty 2 liter Pepsi bottles. (Siren still loves them and she is 3yo.) 

I've NEVER had a puppy or dog that would touch a KONG. (Talking about the hard stinky rubber Kongs. They love the Wubbas and water Wubbas.)

She also loves Nylabones. Though if you are planning on giving your pup/dog raw beef bones to chew on, it likely won't touch a Nylabone after having the "real thing".
I only give Nylabones for chewing, my pups/dogs all like and use them. NOT the Edible ones!!!!!! Those are nasty.

I spend a fair amount on toys, I don't allow my dogs to play with sticks and rocks.  Though I do let them shred card board boxes occasionally, as long as they don't try to eat the pieces.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Wanted to add, that it wil depend on what you are getting. If you are getting a DOG rather that a baby puppy, I would wait until after I got it to worry about toys. Many adult dogs don't play with toys. Some don't really care about them, and others just never had them so they don't "get it". Then there are those like most of mine that are "Toyaholics"!


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