# is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies insane



## Fishynick (Sep 6, 2009)

I dont just mean kind of crazy, i mean she is literally insane, she TRIES to be bad, she knows when she is being bad and when we turn our backs on her even for 2 seconds she jumps at the closest thing she can that she knows that shes not allowed to do.

She just turned 13 weeks today, i understand she is still a puppy and that all puppies are a little crazy but my girlfriend and i are close to our breaking points. We understand how to train her appropriately, we practice obediance training 10-20 minutes at a time - twice a day and we use a clicker. She can sit, down, stay, shake, beg and speak. Some days are better then others, some days she doesnt listen to us at all. My girlfriend doesnt work so she is with the dog ALL day long. I usually get off work around 6 and i am home for the rest of the evening. We take her for long walks, we play with her toys, we take her to our parents house so she can play with our adult dog a couple times a week. Still...she is insane...

We have a cat, and of course we have a litterbox, the puppy knows shes not allowed in the cats bathroom but literally everytime we forget to close the door and we turn our backs on her she runs into the bathroom and takes a mouthful of litter and cat poop

she chases the cat non stop, despite all our efforts to curb her behavior, it just isnt working. Weve talked to the vet, weve talked to obedience trainers, weve looked for advice online, nothing works.

She has a ton of toys, we dont give them to her all at once, she has a toy basket, she gets a couple at a time, but when she has her toys, she ignores them, shed rather pull our blankets off the bed and chew on those, or gnaw on the stand up mirror, or gnaw on table legs, or find a way to grab our shoes off the counter and chew on those

We cant wear jeans because she will grab on to your pant leg and pull to the point where they rip, whenever i put sneakers on she grabs my shoelaces and runs...

Shes pretty good about not biting us....until we let her lick our face and she licks twice and then bites our nose, or our eye, or our ear..

Shes pretty good about her potty training, she pooped in the house twice when we first got her and she hasnt since. However, there are many times when we take her outside to go to the bathroom, she pees and we bring her back inside and five minutes later she pees on the floor..

shes TERRIBLE in the crate, i think shes ok if we actually leave the house because we come home and she is asleep or at least not barking. However if we ever put her in the crate when we are home she will NOT stop barking, weve left her in the crate for an hour at a time, barking the whole time, not even taking a single break, i mean i know your supposed to wait until they stop barking to let them out of the crate, but how are you supposed to do that if they dont stop barking???

Seriously, do we just have an insane extremely difficult dog to train or are all GSD puppies a fat huge pain in the @ss


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Well, she is a 13 week old puppy and I do not think she is old enough to have enough experience to understnd yet what behaviors and what places are off limits. 

You are doing a great job with the training and exercise- keep it up! I especially like that you are trying hard to use positive reinforcement and you have figured out that positive does not mean permissive. She does need limits on her behavior. 

You might want to shorten the training sessions to 10 minutes and do it 4 times a day. Or even try 5 minutes 6 times aday. If your GF is home all day she may be able to do this. Take every chance you have to throw in a quickie training session too. Sit at the door to go out. Give paw for a treat. Sit to be petted etc.

Take her food out of her bowl and put it in atreat pouch and feed her from the hand all day long after she has done something to earn it. This will help establish a bond and relationship of respect and leadership aside from the obedience training.

I think what I see is that you guys are not supervising adequately. The pup should never be out of your sight - ever. Pups will get into trouble in a second if you turn your back. You might try tethering her to you so she is in sight all the time. Or let her drag a thin little leashe so you can get ahold of her and correct her unwanted behavior such as chasing the cat. I step on the leash and give a verbal correction. You can use any command you wish, Leave it works well, as does AH AH!! I use No Kitty! 

At 13 weeks you have probably only had her 5 weeks so cannot have tried everything. I would pick one method and stick to it for awhile and give her a chance to connect and understand before you try something else. You may need to try a few different methods to find what works but give her time on each one don't just jump from one to the next after only a few tries. (if that is what you are doing).

It sounds as if she is just an active, high drive NORMAL puppy. 

Time -patience-time -patience...... This too shall pass and in the blink of an eye she will be a well balanced young adult. 

Also- enroll in puppy class ASAP. They can help you deal with some of this too.

Good luck!


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

sounds like you have a Paige. Paige was the WORST puppy i have ever seen.there was a day or two I almost sent her back. I won't go into her list of bad things but I will tell you this-now she is 11 yrs old and I have never loved anything (except my kid) as much as her. she is still fiesty and still a handful but let me assure you that she has made my life an adventure.
enroll in puppy class/find a trainer. read cesar millan's books. read jan fennel's books.these dogs just love to exasperate you. the reason I took up running is to wear her down. find a puppy playmate-that helps a lot. these dogs need a tremendous amt of exercise. if you act defeated the dog will just up the behavior. sorry, they are smart dogs and they like to jack with you. GSDs are not normal dogs. I have had two GSDs and two mutts and the mutts required nothing.the mutts never wanted to get in trouble and the GSDs tried to cross every line they could.
funny thing is once you have raised one you recognize thier superiority and you want nothing else. Paige is the hardest dog I've ever met and she is also the smartest and the most charismatic.
DON'T GIVE UP!


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## Stephanie17s (Jun 16, 2009)

Alexa (now 23 weeks old) was a monster right until 12-13 weeks. They are babies. Babies don't have the impulse control to know right from wrong. When you are there, she knows there are consequences for jumping on the table, chewing the chair, etc, but when you aren't, she isn't making the connection that it's "bad", just that you aren't there to stop her. 

I agree about supervising her more effectively. I never tethered Alexa to me, but I always kept her in my sight. If you find yourself becoming frustrated, give her something to chew on (peanut butter filled kong, marrow bones, etc), and put her in her crate for an hour. She will get used to it. Alexa HATED her crate, but now she goes in there to rest, or to quietly chew a bone. It helped a lot that I started feeding her in the crate (she eats raw, so I didn't have a choice really lol). Being in the crate meant wonderful, positive, happy things!

I would also up the exercise. These dogs have amazing endurance, even at a young age. I made a point to be-friend people with puppies and young dogs so Alexa had a variety of playmates. A good hour session with another puppy, and she was good to go for hours. I think it helped tremendously with her mouthing as well...they helped her learn that those sharp little teeth hurt! 

Don't give up. It gets better. Put in the time and effort now, and you will be rewarded with a well behaved best friend very soon.


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## becca5880 (Apr 13, 2009)

Kaia is almost 8 months old and she is all of the things you described. Honestly it is like a baby once they hit the terrible twos! I don't know if you have tried the whole put the pup in the crate with treats or when you put her in there give her a kong with something yummy. That is how we got Kaia to loving her crate, not only will she go willingly but she knows if she does something great will follow. She also loved our cat Butterball's litter box which shocked and disgusted me at first to be honest







But our litter box is in our laundry room as are his food and water, we put a kitty door in the laundry room door as a solution. It not only solved the problem but we have had a few hours entertainment ever since it was installed with Kaia trying to stick her big head in the door!
Next Kaia chases the crap out of our cat and we put her in her crate when she does this for a few minutes. But at the same times there are times that Butterball initiates the chase and loves it. I at first thought it was all Kaia until one day I watched and it was a completely different story. Kaia has actually taught the cat to chase people!(which is strange i know)
I know this is long but please realize you are not alone and there are so many things you can do to combat the behavior. If you stick with it and do not give up you will never ever be sorry!
I also think that if you enroll in OB training with other pups you will be shocked at the difference. I have noticed no matter how far I walk her or how much I can get her exercise she is never as tired as when we have been playing with other puppies. You and your gf have a great dog but like one of the post before said a GSD is not your normal dog but it is an incredible experience to have one. PLEASE PLEASE do not give up on your pup, look at it as having great training if you don't have kids yet!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

I kind of like the sound of your puppy (minus the peeing of the floor part). Want to send her to me?









When you give her the toy, don't just toss it to her and let her chew on it or play with it by herself. Take the toy and play with her. Play tug, play chase (she chases you, not the other way around). 

Like Kathy said, carry lots of food with you at all time and impress in her little head that you are the source of yummy delicious wonderful stuff and it pays to listen to you.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Sorry, I had to laugh! This is such a COMMON post on this board - so the answer is: no, she isn't insane, no, not ALL GSD puppies are like this, but a LOT of them are!!! 

And that is what a smart, active, drivey puppy will be like. You are doing a lot of good stuff, but I would change a few things. KathyW and KathyE gave you some good suggestions, I hope I can help too. 

Please note that some behaviours will have to be managed, because at 13 weeks, your puppy has puppy brain: that means a short attention span. That means that she will forget stuff. That means that telling her that she is "bad" will only confuse her, because this is not a concept that she understands. Actually, pups should be raised to be confident, and that is setting them up to succeed, and telling them how GOOD they are! He does not know that he is not allowed certain things and behaviours, much too small and much too much of a baby to have that kind of abstract thinking - and it is abstract thinking, and in addition, you put on your own value judgements on top of it with good and bad concepts - expecting a lot from a baby!!

The first thing I would change to help your new pup fit harmoniously into your household, is your attitude. Instead of thinking that he is bad and KNOWS better (she does not), and wondering if she is insane, take the mind-set that these crazy, wild puppies are FUN!! They will challenge you, and keep you on your toes, and entertain you, and amaze you with their intelligence!! But they aren't born knowing everything, and as babies, don't understand a lot of what we expect from them. 



> Originally Posted By: FishyNickI dont just mean kind of crazy, i mean she is literally insane, she TRIES to be bad, she knows when she is being bad and when we turn our backs on her even for 2 seconds she jumps at the closest thing she can that she knows that shes not allowed to do.


She is bored. This is a pup that needs a lot of supervision, all the time!! Has no concept of "bad", and not fair to expect a puppy to know this. It is like expecting a one year old to know right from wrong. One year olds need constant supervion, or they will get into EVERYTHING!!! So will pups. Keep puppy tethered to yourself or your girlfriend, this way she won't be able to get out of your sight. Or use baby gates to keep her in the same room you are in, makes her easier to watch.



> Quote:She just turned 13 weeks today, i understand she is still a puppy and that all puppies are a little crazy but my girlfriend and i are close to our breaking points. We understand how to train her appropriately, we practice obediance training 10-20 minutes at a time - twice a day and we use a clicker. She can sit, down, stay, shake, beg and speak. Some days are better then others, some days she doesnt listen to us at all. My girlfriend doesnt work so she is with the dog ALL day long. I usually get off work around 6 and i am home for the rest of the evening. We take her for long walks, we play with her toys, we take her to our parents house so she can play with our adult dog a couple times a week. Still...she is insane...


Okay, it is possible that you got an insane pup, but more than likely you got a HIGH ENERGY puppy! Not that unusual in GSDs. 
As others have said, try shorter, more frequent training sessions. 20 minutes seems long for their attention span, and if you get them over-tired, that can contribute to the bratty, hyper behaviour. 

I had a pup that I returned to the breeder because he was . . . insane! Actually, no, just extremely drivey, too much for me to handle (even though I got him for Schutzhund, and knew what to expect), but so pushy and strong that he found a new home with a trainer who is interested in bringing him to high-level protection sport competition - not your average dog! At that age, he spent about an hour a day playing with my older dog, in addition to one or two half-hour leash walks with me, and countles games of fetch, tug, and chase, outside and in the house. If he started getting bratty, I knew he was over-tired, and I took him out a bit to burn off the bratty energy, then put him in his crate for a nap. 



> Quote:We have a cat, and of course we have a litterbox, the puppy knows shes not allowed in the cats bathroom but literally everytime we forget to close the door and we turn our backs on her she runs into the bathroom and takes a mouthful of litter and cat poop, she chases the cat non stop, despite all our efforts to curb her behavior, it just isnt working.


I would set up the litter box in a place he can't get to it. There is something just too irresistable about cat poop for dogs! I know, I have two dogs, and three cats! Again, not fair and not realistic for him to know to leave the box alone, my rescue has advanced obedience titles on her, and I can't keep her out of the litter box, and my working line puppy is very smart and so willing to learn, but I can't keep him out of the litter box. What people on this board do when they have cats, is have a safe place for the cats and the litter box where the dog or dogs can't get to it. Much less aggravation, more peace, happier dogs, people, cats all around. 

He will not KNOW not to chase the cats! He cannot control his drives at this age, and sounds like he has a lot of drive!!! Again, supervise, use a leash to grab hold off, tether him to you, have the cat in a safe place where he can't get to it. As he grows older, he may learn appropriate behaviour, but you can't expect this from a 13 week old. Prevent him from chasing the cat. No use trying to punish after he starts - his drives are too strong, they take over his behaviour, he will barely know why you are upset. The more he is allowed to chase the cat, the more the behaviour will ingrain itself. Note that this is your fault for allowing it. NOT blaming you!!! NOT at all!! I purposely chose to word it like that to illustrate that our puppies are babies and we shape and control their behaviour, as you guys do with the clicker, and that includes cat chasing and poop eating. 

Actually, I have read of people who clicker-trained their dogs to sit, or stop and look away everytime they saw the cat. That is one very positive way to deal with cat chasing! And the bonus was that they their dog would sit or look away when they saw any cat, so no worry about them chasing cats outdoors. 

And there is no magic formula, POOF!!! Cat chasing is gone!!! It will take a lot of training and being pro-active. So you can't say that nothing works, nothing should have had time to work in such a short time-span, so not sure what advice vets and behaviourists were giving you that was supposed to fix cat chasing over-night. 



> Quote:She has a ton of toys, we dont give them to her all at once, she has a toy basket, she gets a couple at a time, but when she has her toys, she ignores them, shed rather pull our blankets off the bed and chew on those, or gnaw on the stand up mirror, or gnaw on table legs, or find a way to grab our shoes off the counter and chew on those


At that age, everything is more fun if it has something to do with you!!! Again, normal puppy, mischievious active behaviour! Supervision, supervision, supervision!!! And toys are much more fun if YOU play with her. Put her in an X pen if you can't watch her all the time. When you give her a toy, play with her!!! She will learn that if she wants your attention, bringing you a toy to play tug together works a lot better than destroying the bedding. 



> Quote:We cant wear jeans because she will grab on to your pant leg and pull to the point where they rip, whenever i put sneakers on she grabs my shoelaces and runs...


TOTALLY NORMAL!!! Just about every GSD puppy does this!!! Redirect to a toy. You and your girlfriend should ALWAYS have a tug toy on you, close by at hand. Don't just give her the toy and walk away, tug with her!! She needs to bite, to pull, to tug, to run and chase with her prize!!! These are important aspects of the hunt, hard-wired instinct for survival - puppies have a need to express these behaviours in their play. Help her satisfy these behavioural needs - and don't worry, it won't turn her into a killer hunter stalking and attacking you and your girlfriend. It will turn her into a puppy that will learn that to play, she needs to bring you a toy instead of grabbing your jeans. 

A lot of people dealt with this phase of development by having TONS of toys around the house, so that they could easily grab something and redirect the behaviour to a toy. See if that works better for you. She should outgrow a lot of this by the time she is six months old or older. 



> Quote:Shes pretty good about not biting us....


Excellent!!! You are doing a LOT of things right!



> Quote:until we let her lick our face and she licks twice and then bites our nose, or our eye, or our ear..


LOL, NORMAL!!! Don't let her lick your face , that's what GSD owners have to do . . . . she'll outgrow the nipping at the face, give her time . . . Or teach her one kiss, and then that's it. 



> Quote:Shes pretty good about her potty training, she pooped in the house twice when we first got her and she hasnt since. However, there are many times when we take her outside to go to the bathroom, she pees and we bring her back inside and five minutes later she pees on the floor..


If this was a regular thing, I would keep her outside an additional 5-10 minutes after her "first" pee, so she can have her second "shift". 

My seven month old pees in two "shifts", LOL. I don't bring him in right away, I walk him around for a few more minutes, because I know he has to go again. Another thing you can do is bring her in, and put her in her crate right away. Then take her out again in half an hour or so. And talking about crating:



> Quote:shes TERRIBLE in the crate, i think shes ok if we actually leave the house because we come home and she is asleep or at least not barking. However if we ever put her in the crate when we are home she will NOT stop barking, weve left her in the crate for an hour at a time, barking the whole time, not even taking a single break, i mean i know your supposed to wait until they stop barking to let them out of the crate, but how are you supposed to do that if they dont stop barking???


This is going to be a hard one to fix, and will take preseverance.

But I think you could _train_ her to be quiet in the crate, especially if you are using a clicker for training. Easy to shape the behaviour you want, little by little. 

I would start by just getting her to go in the crate on her own. Throw in a treat, click when she goes in to get it. Don't lock her in, she can come and go as she wants. Spend a few days just teaching her that the crate is not a scary bad place. 

Then see if you can get her to go in and turn around and sit. Click and release. Get her to sit for gradually longer periods. get her in and get her to lie down. Extend the time before you click and release. Then just close the door to her crate, and open it, release. Then keep the door closed for seconds longer. Then take two steps away, come back, release, etc . . . very GRADUALLY work your way up to longer periods of being in the crate, door closed, you walking away. 

Also get her used to being in the crate by giving her bones to work on, in the crate, with the door open - feed her in her crate. Everything good is associated with the crate - but go slow!! 



> Quote:Seriously, do we just have an insane extremely difficult dog to train or are all GSD puppies a fat huge pain in the @ss


Seriously, you have a normal, high-energy, high-drive, very people oriented puppy, the kind of GSD puppy that most of us would LOVE to have!!! Enjoy her, celebrate her, laugh off her crazy behaviour, let her entertain and woo you!!! She is perfect the way she is, and she will outgrow the crazy puppy stage soon enough!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*



> Originally Posted By: CastlemaidAnd that is what a smart, active, drivey puppy will be like.


Lucia,

I bet on a more working dog focused section you see lots of posts with titles like "Help, my puppy is NOT insane!!!"



> Originally Posted By: CastlemaidSeriously, you have a normal, high-energy, high-drive, very people oriented puppy, the kind of GSD puppy that most of us would LOVE to have!!!


My offer still stands ... I'll take her!


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

You just described Benny at that age! I was worried he would think his name was Benny No









He had no problem with the crate, I think because we put treats in it as he goes in is a great idea. Just hang in there and keep doing what you are doing. Sounds like you have a high drive pup who really wants to be with you. 

The mouthing was a real issue wuth Benny. He drew blood a few times and tore clothes. I just redirected him with a chew toy, or walked away and left him alone for a few minutes. I don't think anything really worked except time. He rarely does this now excpet when very excited and as soon as I say " kisses" he stops and licks
He still gets into the cat box and we have two of them so I just try to keep him away from them. At almost 6 months he is still crated in the house unless I am watching him.

Just keep doing what you are doing and remember he is a baby. As soon as he has his shots sigh up for puppy obedience. You can train him yourself but the classes make good socialization


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*



> Originally Posted By: Jason LinI bet on a more working dog focused section you see lots of posts with titles like "Help, my puppy is NOT insane!!!"










Too funny!! But to FishyNick, Jason is right!! People who are experienced with GSDs have posts like: "Help! My puppy just sleeps at my feet all day and follows me around and refuses to bite anything!!! What is wrong with him??"


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

Ahhhh, he won't chase the cat? What do I do????









Seriously though even if he is not going to compete, a high drive puppy is a lot of fun to own once you get him under control and can redirect his drive towards something positive (which, of course, takes time and lots of patience). When you start taking him to class later, you will be amazed at how much smarter and focused he is compared to the others. People will be coming up to you asking "how do I get my dog to do that?"


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

I am really sorry but I have to laugh too. Don't have any advice that hasn't been covered already. You have a normal, happy shepherd puppy. Sorry but









I had a scab on my nose for a month from Otto's love nips.

I have holes in most of my socks and sweat pants. 

Last weekend, I got around to reupholstering a victorian couch Otto took a shine to pulling the stuffing out of when he was 7 months old.

2 weeks ago, I reseeded the lawn that he ate. Yes he ate the lawn, tore clumps of grass, shook the dirt out of them and threw the clumbs all over the patio.

Otto has eaten 3 leashes, broke the loop on another one and also broken a prong collar. How he broke the prong collar, I dunno but he's got a thick stubborn neck. Goes with his thick stubborn head.

A few minutes ago, he ran off with my DDs pink teddy bear. She wasn't paying attention to him.

Since the kids have gone back to school, I've been hitting him hard 1 hour a day with obedience walks, heavy distractions in my garden district neighborhood in the city. We're working on pulling so he does a lot of sitz and platz. I've been getting complements on how 'well schooled' he is. LOL, what's wrong with your dogs if you think THIS ONE is well schooled.

I could go on... he's a normal healthy busy shepherd puppy and I love him dearly. Some day he'll be a fine dog.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*



> Originally Posted By: DebbiegI was worried he would think his name was Benny No


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

My guy is almost 6 months old and the other day at Obedience class Stark ripped my jacket.. my favorite, very exspensive, very NICE jacket!!!

I had the leash in my hands, my hands in my pockets and there was a very interesting leaf blowing on the ground... one pull to get the leaf... rip...









Crazy puppy antics!!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*








Jax ate all the treats the cat left just for her until we moved the box. She nailed me quite squarely in the face with her razors, aka puppy teeth. She decided teething on an antique paw foot oak kitchen table was the thing to do. She still firmly believes every command starts with "No! NO!" 

Yup...you have a German Shepherd!


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## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

They love to test us owners and I like to believe it's to keep us in line. See if we'll be consistant in our demands and punishments etc. They test us to see how smart we are (and patient too!)LOL
hang in there, take some of these ideas and one day at a time.


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

Try Nothing in Life is Free NILIF - google it, it can seriously help.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

And just wait...it gets better. Jax has entered her teenage years. Give her a command and she just looks at you like you're an idiot and how is she supposed to understand Chinese? Even though she's heard Sit a thousands times.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

I totally feel your pain Michelle!!!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

Oh, yes they love to be bad. he he he
Mine eyes the remote control and the cell phone. He grabs them when you aren't looking and has a smile on his face with his standoff pose. Of course, he has learned what we react to. We think he is absolutely brilliant!!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

Hmmm, I think we scared away the poster. Wonder if he thought that we were all insane to love and appriciate his puppy's insane behaviour?

Hope the pup is doing well!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

or the puppy ate his computer









for a while, I wondered if Rayden was going to think his name was







It definitely doesn't take them long to figure out what will get the biggest reaction from you!


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*

I thought these posts were quite encouraging! GSDs are hard puppies. you really have to be "up" for it. They are so worth it though!!!!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: is it just our puppy or are all GSD puppies in*



> Originally Posted By: CastlemaidHmmm, I think we scared away the poster. Wonder if he thought that we were all insane to love and appriciate his puppy's insane behaviour?










There was a time in my life where I wouldn't think of EVER having another puppy. Rescues were just wonderful. Took me 15 years to get over what Rex did before I'd have another pup and Morgan was 6 months when I adopted her, not a wee baby carpet shark!


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