# persistant poop problems



## mmarie (Feb 25, 2009)

Daisy has put on a little weight since my last post, but just enough so that each of her ribs is not visible. She still looks *very* thin and her poop is still almost always like pancake batter. The vet can't find worms or parasites in her fecals, the only thing "off" she is showing is a high bacteria count so we have her on a probiotic powder.

I'm thinking it's time to switch her food, and the vet agrees that maybe her system just can't handle what she's eating now. We switched a couple weeks ago to Natural Balance Ultra dry food, and we mix in just a touch of Natural Balance Chicken wet food. Duke and Bella are doing *wonderfully* on this and I would like to keep them on it, but I really think Daisy needs a chance on something else.

We switched from a low-quality LBP kibble, where her poop at least had a little firmness to it and she was gaining weight. I don't WANT to go back to that food, so I'm hoping to get recommendations on other options to try for Daisy. I'm thinking she might need the Puppy formula, maybe her stomach can't handle adult food yet? Any suggestions on things that I would be able to get at a PetCo or PetSmart, as I can't find a decent feed store around here for other options and I'd really like to get her switched over ASAP.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

The food we found that made my puppy's 2 months of recurrent diarrhea resolve was Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato. It was recommended by a forumite who had a similar experience, and also worked for his puppy.


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## mmarie (Feb 25, 2009)

So basically the difference I see is that it's made to be an "allergen free" formula (no corn, wheat, rice, barley, sorghum or soy). The previous food that she was showing some improvement on had corn, but none of the other stuff. And the food she is on now does not contain soy, wheat, eggs, or dairy products.

If it is a food allergy, I'm left to suspect it's either rice, barley, or sorghum. Would this be a possibility?


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

Heidi's not a puppy, but she had persistent "pudding" poop when we first got her. The only kibble that we've found so far to give her firm poops is Nature's Logic Lamb dry kibble. It's been great for her. It's kind of expensive and not that easy to find, but it's been worth it for us. She has had anal gland impaction/infection issues in the past and hasn't had any at all since she's been on it so it's saving us $$$ by not having to take her to the vet for the anal gland problems.

We get our Nature's Logic's at Sam's Feed and Pet Supply in San Jose. They special order it for us. I'm not sure where you're located in California, but here are some places you can get it:

http://natureslogic.com/locations/newshowlocation.php?state=CA

Here's some info on their ingredients:

http://natureslogic.com/ingredients/

And here is a list of FAQs, including one that answers a question about feeding a puppy Nature's Logic:

http://natureslogic.com/faq/#faq11

Good luck with Daisy!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Rafi has a similar problem. I've noticed that he can't handle a high amount of fat so I feed him half homemade (raw meat grind with cooked sweet potatoes and potatoes and pureed kale and carrots) and half kibble. He does best on Orijen Senior. I've tried different foods but nothing really helped. This week Lizzie (Argonaut on this board) gave me Argo's leftover Digest Gold. I've been giving that to Rafi and his poops have been much better! I have had him on another digestive enzyme but this stuff has different ingredients and seems to really be working. 

I think a lot of times it is not the food that's causing the problem but something more systemic. Gsds have notoriously poor digestion and are prone to SIBO and EPI so often they need help with digestion and adding digestive enzymes and/or probiotics can make a big difference.


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## mmarie (Feb 25, 2009)

I've never had a GSD with such bad digestive problems (picky eaters are one thing, but this is rough on both of us!) and I guess I had never really thought about digestive enzymes. Is there some place I can get some good basic information? Is it best to ask my vet about this? Anyone else had success with them?

Thanks BowWowMeow for the suggestion!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Let me be mean and recap what I saw in your post: You have a food that works. It isn't aesthetically pleasing to you, you worry about the ingredients. It works. The "good" stuff doesn't. You are frustrated. 

I can relate but the main thing is - You have a food that works. Sometimes we have to drop an idea when it isn't working - this goes for feeding as much as behavior modification (aka training...)

Another thing - don't let local availability limit you. While mail order may concern you for the issue of carbon footprint, most of the dog food available locally gets shipped in anyway.

I am feeding a blend of food but the key ingredient for my 14 yo seems to be the dreaded Hill's product Hills Perscription Diet W/D. If your maligned food is less expensive than that (right around $2 a pound now) you could at least be happy about the cost. BTW my dogs that lived the longest (16 & 15) spent most of their lives eating what ever was on sale at the supermarket. These dogs had fewer health problems, too.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Mindy, my last dog did incredibly on just plain old (gasp!) Eukanuba. He glowed with radiant health, and lived until 15.5. 

My next dog was fed the "snobby" brand of super-duper, grain-free high-end kibble, and got skinny with runny poops.

Grimm now eats raw and all is well. But, raw is not for every dog or every owner. If the lesser quality food was what resonated best with your dog, feel free to go with it. Go with what works for your fur-buddy!


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

I think that if you have tried several foods and the stool is still pretty soft, then it is possible that the pup is showing signs of EPI. If feeding a reduced fat formulation and adding enzymes to her food helps to firm up the stool, then that may be the problem. You can have her tested for EPI at your vet.

Another option is to feed smaller quantities but several times a day. If she is really hungry and scarfing down a large bowl, it is probably just pushing right through her digestive system. 

I've fed some of the 'lesser quality foods' in the past,and in general, the dogs have done well on them. The last couple of years, I've feed a very high quality dog food. The dogs look great, but it is getting more difficult to get it and get it at a reasonable price.


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## mmarie (Feb 25, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereLet me be mean and recap what I saw in your post: You have a food that works. It isn't aesthetically pleasing to you, you worry about the ingredients. It works. The "good" stuff doesn't. You are frustrated.


Correction: I had a food that worked better than what I am currently feeding. After two weeks on the low-quality food, her poop was only slightly better than it is now and while she wasn't skin and bones she still was not putting on the weight she should have been. Both pups were not doing what I would consider to be well on the previous kibble, so I made a change to "good stuff". Now one pup is doing significantly better, my 3 year old is on the same food and is doing significantly better, and one pup is still having problems.



> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereAnother thing - don't let local availability limit you. While mail order may concern you for the issue of carbon footprint, most of the dog food available locally gets shipped in anyway.


There are other reasons for not wanting to order online than just carbon footprint. Such as, I really would prefer food not be left by my front door as there have been periodic theft problems in my neighborhood.


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## mmarie (Feb 25, 2009)

Patti & Marsha,

I know the "snobby" (I love the way you put it, haha!) kibble isn't for every dog, and maybe Daisy is one of those dogs. I would love to get them all on a raw diet, but Daisy will be moving in with my sister as soon as her digestive system settles down (my sister has 3 kids, ranging in age from 2 to 16, and I agreed to keep Daisy until her system settles so she doesn't have to also worry about runny poop all over the place) and Bella will be staying with my mom when I move in the next few months, and I don't think either will stick to the raw diet.

Also, this is Daisy's second type of food that she has been on and in my (limited) experience that isn't really a whole lot of tries. I remember with Bella we went through 6 or 7 different types at least to find one that she would a) eat and b) digest well.

Thanks for all the advice, I guess I'll start with putting her back on 4 smaller meals (this is how we were feeding the lesser-quality food in the beginning when her stools were getting a little better, so maybe smaller meals is the issue and not just the food). If that doesn't work I'll try to get her on a food with less alergens and consider enzymes.


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## mmarie (Feb 25, 2009)

Ok, so a couple days ago my sister took a look at what the vet gave Daisy to help with her coat. It has been helping, although it feels like she has more of a "dog" coat than a "puppy" coat now (it's nice and thick, but the hair is less fluffy like a puppy) and she's already getting a lot of her tan color in the spots where she was losing fluff before, so I feel like maybe we were over-reacting on the fur problem.

I'm a little peeved though because my sister looked what is in the stuff that's supposed to "not cause the diarrhea that fish oil causes"--it contains fish oil and a bunch of other lubricants (as my sister called them)! Since her coat is looking better, and since her coat is a superficial thing vs. her poop being a health thing, we stopped adding that to her food...I think it was Monday?

Anyway, we're still having SOME loose-ish stools, but ALL are firmer than before and about half are what I would consider in the range of "normal"! I still think she looks thin, but I feel like she's looking healthier and that she's just going to be thinner overall (especially since I'm comparing her to my chunky-butt Duke). So, I've been gradually learning not to put blind faith in all vets and I suppose this is one more talley to that list of reasons.

As a side note, this whole ordeal sure does make me miss my last vet though. We had him through my first GSD Angel's sicknesses, and all of Bella's mishaps as she is very accident-prone, and he never led us astray. He had a food in his office, but the only time he mentioned it to me was when I was looking for a way to get Angel to take her pills as she found a way to get them out of everything and leave them on the floor--they had a product designed just for that. I would put blind faith in that man's ability to treat my GSDs any day.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Mindy - Have you tried feeding more small meals a day? Dante ate 3x a day way past "puppyhood" and it helped his poops


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## mmarie (Feb 25, 2009)

Both pups are still on 3 meals a day, and we haven't yet tried to go back to 4 for Daisy. We're kind of waiting it out because if we put her back on 4 it'll be chaos to keep Duke on 3 and Bella on 2, and to keep Duke out of her bowl while it's not his turn to eat!

We have, however, stopped over compensating for her weight loss through the food we are giving her. We were feeding her larger meals because she was losing weight, but I think they were just too big and "pushed straight through" as someone here once put it. She's putting some weight back on and looks great from the sides (no ribs peeking through, not a starved-dog-on-the-street look to her stomach) but she still looks thin from the top.


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