# What is the right gsd for me?



## Dunny_FTM (Oct 19, 2015)

Hi everyone, new member. Me and my wife really want a gsd as a family pet/companion, not a working dog. We like all of the different color variations however my personal favourite is the dark sable. Could you tell me as I'm not too sure what the best type of gsd would be for us? Thanks


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Find a good reputable breeder and work with them. A good breeder can answer your questions based on your needs. Impossible to tell you what the right dog is for you given 3 sentences above. Also you could work with a GSD rescue to find an individual that works best with your family.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Although it's a common theme on this forum that working line dogs, which are where you are more likely to find a sable, are too much for pet temperament families, I disagree. It's possible to find a breeder of Working Line dogs with dark sables who ends up with one whose drive isn't as strong as the others that would make a nice pet. All German Shepherds need jobs, so saying you don't want a working dog, when you are getting a working breed isn't quite accurate. What I think you mean is that you don't want a dog with an extremely high drive. There are medium drive breeders and medium drive dogs that come out of high drive parents occasionally. A good breeder can tell that by 8 weeks.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Choosing a WL GSD as a first GSD based on color?? Is not a wise course of action in my view. 

Temperament is king in all things GSD! And working with a good breeder or breed specific rescue, that understands your needs is a very sound way to go!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

For a first dog, adopting an adult can be a _wonderful_ experience. You miss the destructive "land shark" stage of puppyhood, and you get the best years of dog ownership. You also know what you're getting, in terms of size and personality. 

If you adopt through a good rescue, you often can find one that's been fostered by a volunteer family long enough to house train, crate train, start the foundation of basic obedience, and offer a very good snapshot of the dog's true personality. That makes it much easier to find a great match.

RESCUE LISTINGS BY STATE - The American German Shepherd Rescue Association, Inc.


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## Otakubenny (Sep 22, 2015)

I agree with Magwart. Rescuing an adult dog is probably your best option. Do note that some dogs' personalities do a complete 180 after they get settled in at home, so find out as much background information and ask about fostering. Make sure all the health papers check out as well!


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Magwart said:


> For a first dog, adopting an adult can be a _wonderful_ experience. You miss the destructive "land shark" stage of puppyhood, and you get the best years of dog ownership. You also know what you're getting, in terms of size and personality.
> 
> If you adopt through a good rescue, you often can find one that's been fostered by a volunteer family long enough to house train, crate train, start the foundation of basic obedience, and offer a very good snapshot of the dog's true personality. That makes it much easier to find a great match.
> 
> RESCUE LISTINGS BY STATE - The American German Shepherd Rescue Association, Inc.


Absolutely spot on! :thumbup:


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Just an observation: I find it interesting that I've seen a lot of suggestions lately about rescuing an adult. To use myself as an example rather than pick on someone else, I noticed that even before I opened up about my unwillingness to ever consider rescue, nobody tried to point me in that direction, at least not that I remember. The closest anyone got was suggesting I consider an adult that a breeder had hung onto (which I'd have been open to but for my husband's stipulation that it be a small puppy inside which an adult cat could not fit).

So my question: What makes us (as a whole) suggest rescue to some prospective first time owners and not others? Something about the individual posters? Change in milieu? I frankly would have found the suggestion kind of insulting, like the posters would have been telling me that I was incapable of handling the breeder search and the puppy stages.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Dark sables are all the rage right now so I'd be very careful when choosing a breeder(if you go that route) as some are pumping out that color because it's the flavor of the month. Now I don't think there's anything wrong with having a color preference but it shouldn't take priority over finding the right fit. I did, my puppy is not the color I wanted but she is exactly what I was looking for everywhere else. Also dark sables are generally all working lines... Showlines tend to be the black and tan/reds though there are a few exceptions but you're not likely to find a dark sable showline if they exist at all. That said, like someone else said you can find working lines that make good pets(a lot of that is training as well) but in general most GSD's are going to need plenty of exercise and a lot of mental stimulation regardless of lines. Just be upfront with a breeder as to what you're looking for and a good breeder will be honest about whether or not their dogs will fit that.

An adult rescue is a great idea too!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> So my question: What makes us (as a whole) suggest rescue to some prospective first time owners and not others? Something about the individual posters? Change in milieu? I frankly would have found the suggestion kind of insulting, like the posters would have been telling me that I was incapable of handling the breeder search and the puppy stages.


Rescuing an adult is a viable option for someone that says they want a GSD?? And thy are looking for a family pet.

The OP said "as a family pet/companion, not a working dog" and "Dark Sable" as a color preference. A set of standards that could easily land them with "too much dog!" A young adult WL dog, who's personality is known, and in that color from a responsible rescue would be a sound option! 

If you'd have consider the "suggestion" of a rescue as an insult?? Then it's just as well no one suggested it to you. Just saying.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

It's important to focus on temperament first and color second. It is so important that you get the right temperament for what you want. Take the time and do your research. You will also get a lot of help and opinions here. 

Yes, it is possible that you can find a working line (WL) GSD, as suggested by LuvShepherds that will fit your criteria, they do exist. The show lines (SL) though may be a better fit for you as the WL do tend to be very high energy. Or a combo WL/SL. And Magwart's suggestion of adopting an adult rescue GSD is also good especially if you find a rescue that takes the time to get to know their dogs. Those exist too. You have a lot of options open to you that you can explore. You might want to talk to both breeders and rescues, being very clear about what you want. GSDs are wonderful, loyal and extremely intelligent dogs.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MythicMut said:


> It's important to focus on temperament first and color second. It is so important that you get the right temperament for what you want. Take the time and do your research. You will also get a lot of help and opinions here.
> 
> Yes, it is possible that you can find a working line (WL) GSD, as suggested by LuvShepherds that will fit your criteria, they do exist. The show lines (SL) though may be a better fit for you as the WL do tend to be very high energy. Or a combo WL/SL. And Magwart's suggestion of adopting an adult rescue GSD is also good especially if you find a rescue that takes the time to get to know their dogs. Those exist too. You have a lot of options open to you that you can explore. You might want to talk to both breeders and rescues, being very clear about what you want. GSDs are wonderful, loyal and extremely intelligent dogs.


This ^^^^


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Rescuing an adult is a viable option for someone that says they want a GSD?? And thy are looking for a family pet.
> 
> The OP said "as a family pet/companion, not a working dog" and "Dark Sable" as a color preference. A set of standards that could easily land them with "too much dog!" A young adult WL dog, who's personality is known, and in that color from a responsible rescue would be a sound option!
> 
> If you'd have consider the "suggestion" of a rescue as an insult?? Then it's just as well no one suggested it to you. Just saying.


I just noticed that it seems to come up a lot more for first time owners lately.

Why do we give credit to some people and not others for being able to handle the breeder search and raising a puppy? I think it's a valid question.

I wouldn't have found what I was looking for in rescue and it was never on the table, so yes, I'd have been annoyed if people had kept suggesting that. I didn't know everything and still don't, but I knew enough to know what I wanted and had a good idea of where to find it.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

MythicMut said:


> It's important to focus on temperament first and color second. It is so important that you get the right temperament for what you want. Take the time and do your research. You will also get a lot of help and opinions here.
> 
> Yes, it is possible that you can find a working line (WL) GSD, as suggested by LuvShepherds that will fit your criteria, they do exist. The show lines (SL) though may be a better fit for you as the WL do tend to be very high energy. *Or a combo WL/SL.* And Magwart's suggestion of adopting an adult rescue GSD is also good especially if you find a rescue that takes the time to get to know their dogs. Those exist too. You have a lot of options open to you that you can explore. You might want to talk to both breeders and rescues, being very clear about what you want. GSDs are wonderful, loyal and extremely intelligent dogs.


Those genetics can be iffy though. Some breeders are doing it and it's working out but they usually know their genetics and lines really well.

Some are out there pushing the 'best of both worlds' marketing line but as we know genes don't just go into the blender and come out perfectly mixed. So I would not advise that as an option without some understanding of the lines and breeder first.

Otherwise, excellent post!! :thumbup:


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I've noticed that too.

It's just the ebb and flow of the forum. Who happens to see the thread and post, what their personal experiences may have been. So different variables driving the responses.

Nothing personal. 

Personally I've found that rescues can be a crap shoot too. If you end up going with a less then reliable rescue you can end up with a hot mess on your hands.

No matter which option, taking time, getting to know the breed and choosing with as much care as possible is recommended.




WateryTart said:


> I just noticed that it seems to come up a lot more for first time owners lately.
> 
> Why do we give credit to some people and not others for being able to handle the breeder search and raising a puppy? I think it's a valid question.
> 
> I wouldn't have found what I was looking for in rescue and it was never on the table, so yes, I'd have been annoyed if people had kept suggesting that. I didn't know everything and still don't, but I knew enough to know what I wanted and had a good idea of where to find it.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I've noticed that too.
> 
> It's just the ebb and flow of the forum. Who happens to see the thread and post, what their personal experiences may have been. So different variables driving the responses.
> 
> ...


That's why I asked about milieu. I wondered if that was a shift. I don't remember that happening nearly as often a few months ago, based on my sporadic reading.

Really, though, isn't it kind of like saying that a first timer can't handle a puppy? "It's a GREAT way to get so and so without such and such." Reads like a verbal head pat and a _go play in the sandbox, the grownups are talking_ to me.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

It can be _viewed_ that way but I don't think it's _meant _that way. We see a lot of stories here of people struggling with their dogs, giving up on little baby puppies over house training even. So there is a bit of cynicism along with it.

I think most of the time it's meant in the spirit of setting a first time dog owner up for success.

MHO, from learning the hard way myself a time or two, the best way to help someone new to the breed is find out what they *really* want to *do* with the dog.

From there help guide them to breeders who breed the type of dog which fits their lifestyle (and it may _not_ be a WL....)




WateryTart said:


> That's why I asked about milieu. I wondered if that was a shift. I don't remember that happening nearly as often a few months ago, based on my sporadic reading.
> 
> *Really, though, isn't it kind of like saying that a first timer can't handle a puppy?* "It's a GREAT way to get so and so without such and such." Reads like a verbal head pat and a _go play in the sandbox, the grownups are talking_ to me.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Those genetics can be iffy though. Some breeders are doing it and it's working out but they usually know their genetics and lines really well.
> 
> Some are out there pushing the 'best of both worlds' marketing line but as we know genes don't just go into the blender and come out perfectly mixed. So I would not advise that as an option without some understanding of the lines and breeder first.
> 
> Otherwise, excellent post!! :thumbup:


Thank you Gwenhwfair. I think you are right regarding understanding the lines and breeder especially since there seem to be so many pro and con dialogues about it. The OP should probably eliminate mixed WL/SL from his search. Thank you for mentioning it.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> I just noticed that it seems to come up a lot more for first time owners lately.
> 
> Why do we give credit to some people and not others for being able to handle the breeder search and raising a puppy? I think it's a valid question.
> 
> I wouldn't have found what I was looking for in rescue and it was never on the table, so yes, I'd have been annoyed if people had kept suggesting that. I didn't know everything and still don't, but I knew enough to know what I wanted and had a good idea of where to find it.


It depends on the nature of the questions. Someone that is reasonably sure they want a WL GSD generally ask different questions than someone that says they "think" they would like "a" GSD.

Most folks that aren't so sure usually list "good with family" as a prerequisite. That should be a given, if they feel the need to ask .. for me it's a "red flag." 

A LE officers 11 month up "puppy" bolted out the front door???? And bit a neighbor in the butt!! Yes he's fine with his family but anybody else?? 

Everybody in the household needs to have there crap together! No freaking dog should be bolting out the door!

We tend to base answers on the information given and the questions asked, pretty much as simple as that. 

I don't want to throw WL dogs under the bus but I tend to think that asking if one would be good with family is not a good start to owning one.

It's better for the breed if some people don't get a WL GSD, I luv them myself but I'm not Mr. Sunshine in recommending them. 

My opinion is based on my experience with my WL Dog and "I" made him safe in public. Once I discovered after 7 months of no issues ...that I saw, that he did not much care for uh anyone outside his family members! And I won't go into the "Rank Drive" thing! 


Good times good times.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

MythicMut said:


> Thank you Gwenhwfair. I think you are right regarding understanding the lines and breeder especially since there seem to be so many pro and con dialogues about it. The OP should probably eliminate mixed WL/SL from his search. Thank you for mentioning it.



There are actually some breeders doing these crosses with a lot of thought into what they are doing and the results are some nice dogs. Like any breeder a potential buyer looks into, there should be goals and knowledge about what they are doing. Someone who just wants to throw two very different dogs together hoping to get that "golden middle" is not a breeder I would recommend anymore than someone with WL or SL or DDR or Czech that has little knowledge of the dogs and lines they are crossing.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

When someone just wants a good pet companion, for their first GSD, that tends to mean they don't want to get into advanced training as a second full time job or all-consuming hobby. They just want a pet they can take for a walk, play fetch with, and enjoy in the house--maybe even take out to dinner to restaurants with dog-friendly patios, or go camping. That's totally cool! _Lots _of great adult dogs are ready to do that--whether retired from a breeder, or adopted from a good rescue.

I've pulled WAY too many adolescent GSDs out of high-kill shelters for me to take puppy recommendations lightly for new dog owners, or even people just new to the breed. The surrender papers I see always give a reason along the lines of "don't have time" or "too much work." That sucks, but it's easy to understand what happened. Behind every one of those adolescent owner-surrenders to a shelter is a frustrated, stressed out person who thought getting a puppy was a great idea then got in WAY over his or her head. The puppies get a pass for their land-sharkery and trail of destruction when they are small and cute, but sometime between 6 mo. and a year, they stop being cute. Then patience of a lot of new owners wears out -- the threads here bear that out.

I _wish _these former owners had been told how hard it can be before they purchased a puppy. Some of them might even have been successful with an older, less energetic dog. A totally normal puppy is energetic, mischief-seeking, tooth-filled...and honestly bonkers. Even _fostering _the young ones drives me _bat-poop crazy _-- and it's not my first rodeo.

GSD puppies are furry devils with sharp teeth who can try the patience of a saint. Yes, they can be rewarding. Yes, you'll learn lots with your first one. There will be days you want to pull your hair out though--glancing through the threads about people going through that in the last week reveals a lot.

Recommending an an easy-going adult with a good temperament, who already has some house manners, isn't insulting to someone new to the breed who just wants a nice pet. It's likely a win-win for the person and the dog.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I have a WGSL/WGWL/DRR cross, he has his strengths and weaknesses... He doesn't have the drive for protection work and has some nerve issues there as far as not wanting to engage with the helper. But he loves obedience, very smart and biddable... In herding he is a completely different dog, he is extremely drivey, hard and stubborn, admittedly too much dog for me but his work ethic there is a joy to watch. I'm sure he'd work till he'd dropped dead if I let him. We are about to venture into tending style herding and eventually cattle which I think will suit him better.

In the house he's a dream, lazy bum doesn't demand anything from me, very independent. He has zero ball drive but will chase a flirt pole all day and would love to kill my rabbits. He was very leash reactive to dogs, I'm sure part of it is genetic but I also think a lot of it was me being a novice handler, since I've changed my approach to how I handle him it has improved a great deal. With people though he's very aloof but social when needed, very gentle with kids and let's vet techs do whatever they want to him. I will definitely agree that the breeder needs to know what they're doing because of the issues he does have and seeing the differences with my full working line girl. But honestly couldn't have asked for a better first GSD, he's got me hooked for life.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Magwart said:


> *I wish these former owners had been told how hard it can be before they purchased a puppy. * Some of them might even have been successful with an older, less energetic dog. A totally normal puppy is energetic, mischief-seeking, tooth-filled...and honestly bonkers. Even _fostering _the young ones drives me _bat-poop crazy _-- and it's not my first rodeo.
> 
> GSD puppies are furry devils with sharp teeth who can try the patience of a saint. Yes, they can be rewarding. Yes, you'll learn lots with your first one. There will be days you want to pull your hair out though--glancing through the threads about people going through that in the last week reveals a lot.
> 
> Recommending an an easy-going adult with a good temperament, who already has some house manners, isn't insulting to someone new to the breed who just wants a nice pet. It's likely a win-win for the person and the dog.


^This. Our first GSD, Sneaker, just happened to be a very good dog for a first time owner. We got her at 16 weeks old, took one obedience class with her, and she was good to go. I don't recall her it being too difficult to housebreak her, or much about biting (although this was a long time ago, 1986, so it may have been worse than I remember), but she did have a pretty horrific chewing phase. She was in the garage with a dog door to the yard when we were gone, and we'd put old newspapers and boxes from Costco trips out there, and no matter how high up, she'd get at them and shred them all over the place. I don't know how, but she did. She chewed up numerous garden hoses, and plastic flowerpots too. But other than that, she was a very easy dog.

Cassidy would have been a horror for a first time dog owner. We lost Sneaker at 14-1/2 years old, so what little I'd needed to know about dog training back then, I'd have forgotten by the time Cassidy came along. But I am very stubborn and determined, and no dog was going to get the best of me! She was a project though, and not everyone is looking for a project. 

Dena would have been a fabulous dog for a first time owner too. Keefer, a bit more difficult but not too much for someone committed to training. Even with 4 GSDs under my belt, Halo was a challenge as a youngster. By the time we got her I knew much more about dog training and behavior than when we got Sneaker, but I've learned SO much more since then. I think she would have been made a novice tear their hair out or consider giving up. I stuck it out, worked my butt off (and hers too!), and she's matured into a terrific dog. It was not an easy road, but it was well worth it. 

I guess the thing is we don't know the level of dedication and determination someone with little or no prior dog experience has. It may seem like we're trying to scare people away from the breed, but if they hear all the warnings about how difficult puppies can be and still feel that they're up to the task, great. But it just might be enough to deter someone who really isn't interested in putting in that kind of time and effort. And there's nothing wrong with that! People who work long hours or have children may simply not have that kind of time, no matter how much they'd like to. I personally love puppies, but the truth is that they're roughly 50% fun and 50% hard work, especially the first few months. Those former owners that Magwart refers to may have wished someone had warned them too.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Magwart said:


> When someone just wants a good pet companion, for their first GSD, that tends to mean they don't want to get into advanced training as a second full time job or all-consuming hobby. They just want a pet they can take for a walk, play fetch with, and enjoy in the house--maybe even take out to dinner to restaurants with dog-friendly patios, or go camping. That's totally cool! _Lots _of great adult dogs are ready to do that--whether retired from a breeder, or adopted from a good rescue.
> 
> I've pulled WAY too many adolescent GSDs out of high-kill shelters for me to take puppy recommendations lightly for new dog owners, or even people just new to the breed. The surrender papers I see always give a reason along the lines of "don't have time" or "too much work." That sucks, but it's easy to understand what happened. Behind every one of those adolescent owner-surrenders to a shelter is a frustrated, stressed out person who thought getting a puppy was a great idea then got in WAY over his or her head. The puppies get a pass for their land-sharkery and trail of destruction when they are small and cute, but sometime between 6 mo. and a year, they stop being cute. Then patience of a lot of new owners wears out -- the threads here bear that out.
> 
> ...


Well put.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I acknowledged this in my post as well. I kept it short but would like to expand on why I wrote what I did.

The problem is a lot of BYBs are using this cross as a gimmick.

The fundamental problem with the BYBs and buyers is they didn't have or don't remember high school biology. Just the really basic genetic principles that some genes are dominant some are recessive. They don't blend up like a smoothie in a blender. 

I am not a geneticist, but when you guys on this board told me sable is a dominant coat color I at least understood what that means.

It is shocking and saddening how many people who call themselves breeders do not understand this concept and puppy buyers fall for it. 

I saw this happening with the "American Warmbloods". People, throwing together a thoroughbred and a Belgian and trying to make extra $$$ calling them "Warmbloods". 





lhczth said:


> There are actually some breeders doing these crosses with a lot of thought into what they are doing and the results are some nice dogs. Like any breeder a potential buyer looks into, there should be goals and knowledge about what they are doing. Someone who just wants to throw two very different dogs together hoping to get that "golden middle" is not a breeder I would recommend anymore than someone with WL or SL or DDR or Czech that has little knowledge of the dogs and lines they are crossing.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Dunny_FTM said:


> Hi everyone, new member. Me and my wife really want a gsd as a family pet/companion, not a working dog. We like all of the different color variations however my personal favourite is the dark sable. Could you tell me as I'm not too sure what the best type of gsd would be for us? Thanks


I always see a lot of advice against working line for pets on this forum. I have a working line. One of the best "pets" ever. He's calm in the house, social (he missed that aloof gene completely) but is picking up on odd behaviors in people as he matures, great with kids. Everything people want in a pet. 

I see many working lines in pet homes. Dogs with no issues. Not every puppy in a litter is a sport or working dog. If you are committed to training and properly exercising then there is no reason to worry. Then your problem is finding a good breeder! 

My advice to you is to really think about what you want in a dog. 
--Activity level? Do you hike? Camp? Run?
--Are you willing to train the dog? Really train it? And that goes for all lines!
--Color? There is NOTHING wrong with wanting a certain color/pattern. People think that is evil to put on your list. I wanted a black. The best puppy for me was a sable and I wouldn't trade him for anything. So ask for the color but be flexible on the breeders best choice for you.
--Stop thinking about which one is best and think about what traits you want. My nerves can not take hectic energy. I can't stand a dog that screams and leaks drive. I want to see a breeder whose dogs are in a variety of venues. SAR, IPO, Pet, AKC, Guide. It shows versatility in the dogs.

Go to clubs and watch the dogs. You will quickly find the traits you do not want and what you want. AKC clubs and events. IPO clubs and events. 

I know you are looking for "just a pet" but in my opinion, there is not such thing as "just a pet". This is a member of your family that you will have for 10-15 years. Do your research and find exactly what you want. 

Where are you located? Maybe people can point you to events/breeders OR good rescues so you can make an informed decision.


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