# Hawkeye pinched/nipped someone.....again



## df1960 (Nov 6, 2009)

On Saturday my husband was out with all the dogs I had just gone back into the house and a stranger pulled into our driveway........ Hawkeye ran up to the truck and as soon as the driver got out Hawkeye nipped him.... 

By then my husband had walked to the truck and the guy said the dog had nipped him just a pinch he said.... the second guy gets out of the truck hubby tells Hawkeye to go to the house and everything was find the three of them went to the back of the property and walked back with nothing from Hawkeye, by then I had come back out and Hawkeye stayed with me...not even paying attention to the two strangers with my husband.

This is the third time he's done that and every time it's when someone gets out of a vehicle when we are not right there to tell him it's ok.

How can we get him to NOT do that or to make people understand they shouldn't get out of their vehicles until we have control of him.

Any suggestions?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Is there a way to limit access to vehicles so that he CAN'T do it?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Is there a way to limit access to vehicles so that he CAN'T do it?


:thumbup:


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Either place a very large sign at the entrance to your property or limit his activities outside to being on leash or with you at all times


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

manage the dog so that he does not have access to the front -- don't manage the people. There are laws which say you have to provide safe access to your front door . Meter readers, postal / delivery persons , campaigners, kids , (boy scouts / girl scouts ) , census takers -- are unexpected strangers .


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Keep him on a leash or in a fenced yard when people arrive, strangers or not, you have to keep control of the dog.
Maybe a "nip" to you might be a "bite" to someone else and you will have a lawsuit on your hands, and they will win, hands down.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Years ago, I had a GSD mix that would nip anybody as they *left*. Not a mean bone in his body, he was just overly excited, never vocal. He'd make a made dash for a nip before the guest could get into the vehicle. Therefore, till the day he passed, I had to contain him when people were leaving.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes, the dog has too much freedom. He has access to areas that the general public has access too. This is simply not ok. At some point, someone is not going to like getting nipped and they are going to make a stink about it. Then the dog will suffer and or you all will be in a world of hurt. 

I do not have a nipping dog problem. But I do have my back yard fenced in. My back yard does not include my driveway, so visitors can get out of their cars without being molested by my dogs. Generally, my dogs are inside kennels within the fenced back yard unless I am right there with them. This keeps my dogs safe from people. 

The fencing around my back yard was not expensive, but it would not keep a determined dog in if it was left to its own devices. The kennels can do this, as they are built in such a way that they can stand up to a determined GSD. But the rest of the back yard is fenced with horse fence on T-posts, or privacy fencing panels, and if a dog was in there for hours on end, they could dig under or climb over, or break through that.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

My concern would also be that my dog might get hit by the vehicle that the stranger was driving into my driveway.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

carmspack said:


> manage the dog so that he does not have access to the front -- don't manage the people. There are laws which say you have to provide safe access to your front door . Meter readers, postal / delivery persons , campaigners, kids , (boy scouts / girl scouts ) , census takers -- are unexpected strangers .


 
Ummm don't think so, at least not here. We have gang mailboxes at the end of the street, and smart meters.... Anyone coming through my fence on to my property does so at their own risk.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Over the years, I have have heard many questions about dog behavior such as yours. I am never sure what it is that owners are expecting to hear or to have the dog do? What did you have in mind?

I can not think of anything myself except what I do here with 5 GSDs and a Catahoula. That is, none of the dogs would ever have the opportunity to do such a thing. They are dogs with dog genetics and dog brains. I would have had who knows how much trouble with my dogs and people arriving on the property! It is very important that as your dog's owner and leader that you not place him in situations that a dog will handle as a dog! The behaviors a protective dog exhibits may not be very acceptable in our society. He can not think in a manner different from a dog, so you will need to make arrangements for him not to have access to people's bits when they arrive at your place.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

shepherdmom said:


> Ummm don't think so, at least not here. We have gang mailboxes at the end of the street, and smart meters.... Anyone coming through my fence on to my property does so at their own risk.


When you get sued for letting a dog with a known bite history attack a stranger, you can try the defense of "they came in at their own risk". Good luck with that.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

carmspack said:


> manage the dog so that he does not have access to the front -- don't manage the people. There are laws which say you have to provide safe access to your front door . Meter readers, postal / delivery persons , campaigners, kids , (boy scouts / girl scouts ) , census takers -- are unexpected strangers .


No laws such as that exist here. Where the property line starts, I'm free to have nasty snarling werewolfs while marching up and down with a loaded assault rifle. (Assuming werewolfs are not considered wildlife)


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Zookeep said:


> When you get sued for letting a dog with a known bite history attack a stranger, you can try the defense of "they came in at their own risk". Good luck with that.



I live in a very free and unregulated area generally. People getting bitten, even when they come on the property is not going to fly here either. The dogs have locked pens so you gotta work really hard to get past my regular fence, get into a pen and get bitten. I know what will happen if my dog bites someone who is not an overt threat to me. Not so fair for dogs, but it is how it goes these days.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What if, what if. The thing is, the OP has a drive where people drive down, and exit their car, and at that point they get nipped. They do not have to open a gate, or a locked kennel to get bit. 

If the OP would put the dogs in a secure area, and limit access to where the general public can come, then they will be much less likely to have serious repercussions wherever they live. 

I can patrol my property with snarling werewolves and a loaded AK47 too, but if my werewolves bite someone, or if I shoot someone, I am going to be in a legal pile of poo. Frankly, I deal with enough poo.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Zookeep said:


> When you get sued for letting a dog with a known bite history attack a stranger, you can try the defense of "they came in at their own risk". Good luck with that.


I'm not the op. My dogs have never bitten anyone. That being said here in Nevada anyone opens the gate and crosses my property line without permission, I have the right to shoot first ask questions later. That is the law in this state and most of the west with the exception of California. When I lived in Arizona some idiot meter reader who had just move there from out of state came onto my acerage without permission, not on the normal day. He peppersprayed my dogs who were barking. Needless to say he was fired as soon as I called to let them know what happened. He is lucky I was nice.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

hunterisgreat said:


> No laws such as that exist here. Where the property line starts, I'm free to have nasty snarling werewolfs while marching up and down with a loaded assault rifle. (Assuming werewolfs are not considered wildlife)


Here is the law in South Carolina:*SECTION 47-3-110. Liability of owner or person having dog in his care or keeping.*

*Whenever any person is bitten or otherwise attacked by a dog while the person is in a public place or is lawfully in a private place, including the property of the owner of the dog or other person having the dog in his care or keeping, the owner of the dog or other person having the dog in his care or keeping is liable for the damages suffered by the person bitten or otherwise attacked. For the purposes of this section, a person bitten or otherwise attacked is lawfully in a private place, including the property of the owner of the dog or other person having the dog in his care or keeping, when the person bitten or otherwise attacked is on the property in the performance of any duty imposed upon him by the laws of this State, by the ordinances of any political subdivision of this State, by the laws of the United States of America, including, but not limited to, postal regulations, or when the person bitten or otherwise attacked is on the property upon the invitation, express or implied, of the owner of the property or of any lawful tenant or resident of the property. If a person provokes a dog into attacking him then the owner of the dog is not liable.*
​You will note that it applies when someone is lawfully on your property


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

shepherdmom said:


> I'm not the op. My dogs have never bitten anyone. That being said here in Nevada anyone opens the gate and crosses my property line without permission, I have the right to shoot first ask questions later. That is the law in this state and most of the west with the exception of California. When I lived in Arizona some idiot meter reader who had just move there from out of state came onto my acerage without permission, not on the normal day. He peppersprayed my dogs who were barking. Needless to say he was fired as soon as I called to let them know what happened. He is lucky I was nice.


I live in New York. If someone enters my property without my permission, I am forced to offer them a hot meal and use of my shower.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Zookeep said:


> I live in New York. If someone enters my property without my permission, I am forced to offer them a hot meal and use of my shower.


:rofl:In Nevada, it is "legal" to hang a person for shooting your dog on your property. Seriously. 15 Dumb Dog Laws - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

shepherdmom said:


> Ummm don't think so, at least not here. We have gang mailboxes at the end of the street, and smart meters.... Anyone coming through my fence on to my property does so at their own risk.


 
That is unusual - think I would check with a lawyer (unless you are one or have already done so).


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I don't know what the law is here in Washington state but....

I live in a rental house. There is only one door.The neighborhood has a fairly high crime rate. My fence and gate block my door. There is a sign on the gate that says 'Dog on Premises'. Delivery guys are always instructed to honk in driveway. Meters are read electronically. There is no reason for anyone to come to my door.

Due to the fact that Nadia is a nipper, I have HER secure by keeping the fence and gate where they are and not letting anyone come to my door unannounced. It is more for her safety but for others as well. Because I KNOW she will nip at strangers. The bonus for me is that I know that we are not likely to be victims of a home invasion, or other vicious crimes, and that works for me. 

I have never ever had a problem with anyone, ever, about the way I have things set up here. Even the owner of the house didn't say anything. The property manager has not come to do anything here in several years. However, IF someone like that needed access, it is prearranged and I secure my dogs prior to the arrival of said appointment. People can and do still have access to my driveway and if I don't realize someone is there, the dogs give an alert bark, then they are put away in a secure kennel or their crates. To me, this is part of management of a dog that has the propensity to bite/nip which is a liability for me.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

codmaster said:


> That is unusual - think I would check with a lawyer (unless you are one or have already done so).


Not with a lawyer but my husband looked it up... apparently you can only hang them in the front yard not the back yard. 

disclaimer.... I'm not planning on ever testing this law.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Too late to edit but my suggestion for the OP is to protect your dog from himself. Knowing he will do this means taking precautions. Set him up in a manner that he can do his job without hurting someone and getting you into legal troubles. Containing a dog that nips is a common sense must. (just my opinion, but speaking from experience)


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

shepherdmom said:


> Not with a lawyer but my husband looked it up... apparently you can only hang them in the front yard not the back yard.


Although it is listed on many "Dumb Law" websites on the internet, there is some debate as to how valid it is. 
Is it really legal to hang someone for shooting your dog on your property in Nevada? | http://politicsandgovernment.blog.my

I find it interesting that despite all the blog posts and Yahoo Questions listings there are, nobody seems to be able to actually quote the legal code for this. 
Sheilah


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> I find it interesting that despite all the blog posts and Yahoo Questions listings there are, nobody seems to be able to actually quote the legal code for this.


Seems like perhaps it could be considered trespassing and therefore covered under that law. I do know here in WA that if someone trespasses and happens to get bit by my dog, while they _can _sue me, it is quite likely to get thrown out of court.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Why would that be a dumb law? If someone is on my property and shoots my dog, I SHOULD be able to hang him. If this was the law of the land, fewer people would attack people's animals to get back at them for whatever. I like it.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

As an ACO in WA state, I can tell you that the comments about there being a 'right of way' up to your front door is 100% correct.

Unless you have a fence with a lock on it out front, it is considered to be safe for people to enter and at least approach your front door in safety. 

Now, around the side, or in back, where people do not normally go, it is different. But out front, where people would "normally go", that's a problem if your dog bites someone on that area.

We don't have a fence out front. We have a sidewalk that leads up to our home from the drive where people park. This would be 'common' area where people can expect to approach safely.
There's a 6' fence to the right of our front door. On the other side of the house is a fenced porch, with the gate to it. And a gate beyond that to the 6' fenced area. 
Those areas to either side of the house are not common areas and if someone were bitten there, they'd be at fault for entering it.

I can't cite a law without digging around for it (WA state) but I remember that part from classes.
And I can't say how other states are, only WA.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

The Revised Code of Washington, section 16.08.040 (Dog bites -- Liability), states as follows:
The owner of any dog which shall bite any person while such person is in or on a public place or lawfully in or on a private place including the property of the owner of such dog, shall be liable for such damages as may be suffered by the person bitten, regardless of the former viciousness of such dog or the owner's knowledge of such viciousness.

And I agree with msvette-the right of way at my house is clear from my dogs reach at all times.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Good job - I always hated that law in a way due to some ambiguity (or perceived). 
For instance - one of our officers went to serve a warrant on a guy and when they burst in the door, one of the guys got bit.
They called me in at like, 3am to go impound the dog!
I told them I was not going to impound it, since the dog was really kind of doing his job. 
I told them they'd be able to do a rabies quarantine at home, and the dog wouldn't have bitten if they hadn't pounded on the door and opened it.

Anyway - probably legally I could have impounded the dog and/or declared it dangerous. But I felt that the dog was within it's "rights" to defend it's home.
Had it been daylight and not freaked everyone including the dog out, the bite probably wouldn't have occurred. 

What that law states anyway, is that if medical care is sought, the owner of the dog has to pay. Nothing about dangerous dogs. Those waters are even murkier in reality!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

sit said:


> Although it is listed on many "Dumb Law" websites on the internet, there is some debate as to how valid it is.
> Is it really legal to hang someone for shooting your dog on your property in Nevada? | http://politicsandgovernment.blog.my
> 
> I find it interesting that despite all the blog posts and Yahoo Questions listings there are, nobody seems to be able to actually quote the legal code for this.
> Sheilah


Try google here is a more credible site: USA Law Facts. Strange Laws of America. Lawyers Information. USA Attorneys Directory of Law Firms USA 

When it was in the news here locally a while back my husband did look it up, unfortuantely he didn't bookmark the site.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> Nothing about dangerous dogs. Those waters are even murkier in reality!


I know that one first hand unfortunately, from many many years ago. I only wish I knew then what I do now. That experience is what led me to using caution with Nadia these days. I never want to relive that nightmare. 

Back to the OP...look online for the laws regarding your area. I see you are in Quebec, Canada. Don't know if your laws there are the same as in Ontario, but theirs are close to what mine is here. You really should contain and manage your dog. I wish you luck in finding the best solution for all concerned.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I saw enough people have to shell out $250-500 to keep (bail out) their dog that I am super-over-extremely cautious with our pooches!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> As an ACO in WA state, I can tell you that the comments about there being a 'right of way' up to your front door is 100% correct.
> 
> Unless you have a fence with a lock on it out front, it is considered to be safe for people to enter and at least approach your front door in safety.


I do have a locked fence.  Just sayin...


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

shepherdmom said:


> Try google here is a more credible site: USA Law Facts. Strange Laws of America. Lawyers Information. USA Attorneys Directory of Law Firms USA


I don't think it is any more (or less) credible than any other personally owned website out on the web. Whoever owns it clearly states a disclaimer:

Nothing in this website constitutes legal advice. The information and opinions expressed on this website should not be relied on or used as a substitute for legal advice.​ This website contains links to other websites and to material contained on other websites. Neither Peter Yexley nor WebWide Corporation Limited are responsible for the content of such websites and disclaims all liability in respect of such content.

I can only imagine what the law enforcement response would be if some drunken neighbor shot a barking dog and then was hanged until dead by the dog's owner, who turned around and pleads immunity from prosecution because of a law they read about on the internet.

I need to ask my friend who is an attorney licensed to practice in Nevada and Idaho. Maybe she can do some research?
Sheilah


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

sit said:


> I can only imagine what the law enforcement response would be if some drunken neighbor shot a barking dog and then was hanged until dead by the dog's owner, who turned around and pleads immunity from prosecution because of a law they read about on the internet.
> 
> I need to ask my friend who is an attorney licensed to practice in Nevada and Idaho. Maybe she can do some research?
> Sheilah


The law is more detailed than that. They have to be on your property when they shoot your dog and you have to hang them in the front yard, not the back... or that's the way I heard it.  As I said before I don't plan on testing it.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Nevada state dog laws.

Nevada Consolidated Dog Laws


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

if the dog nipped a few times already its a no brainer, keep the dog on leash.. period....


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