# Dry food brands?



## Bloop (Nov 10, 2010)

hi, getting a puppy soon and i'm curious as to what to feed him.

i've read that a lot of the commercial brands have inexcusable ingredients such as meal from rendering plants and things dogs can't digest like corn, certain grains, ect. 

i've heard the more expensive brands like Royal Canin are really good for dogs, because they provide balanced nutrition without indigestible fillers, is this true?

i'm worried, probably as any owner would be, about the effects of these brands on my future pup's health, and would like recommendations on diet.

Two other questions: NuVet comes highly recommended from the breeder i'm buying from(respectable). i'm curious as to others thoughts on this supplement.

lastly, i've heard to keep dogs on puppy chow for their first year, is this correct?

Thanks!


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## ZAYDA (Apr 22, 2010)

Yes most kibble suck and yes there are some good quality kibble but most people make their decision on what they can afford and what is available near by unless you don't have a problem ordering on line like I do. You need to read other posts because their is TONS of info on kibble.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Check the threads under diet, there is tons of info. Royal Canin is only mediocre at best. You can check reviews on the different brands at www.dogfoodanalysis.com


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## Bloop (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks for the website, any thoughts on nuvet?


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

A few things-

"meal" in and of itself is not a horrible thing. Its the QUALITY of meal that makes the difference, and you always want it to be a named meat source. For instance, a food that uses "chicken meal" or "lamb meal" is generally using a high-quality ingredient. A food using "meat meal" or "by-product meal" or "poultry meal" is not. 

Corn, wheat, and soy should be avoided at all cost in your dog's food. He is a carnivore, and while he CAN process a portion of those ingredients in a cooked form, his body is putting much more work into the digestion than he is getting back from what little nutrients they provide. In short, not worth it at all. Plus corn is one of the highest allergens in dogs. 

COOKED grains are also digestible, can provide some nutrients, but on the whole not necessary. If you feed a grain-inclusive food, try to only look for ones that use things like brown rice or oatmeal, as they are generally consider higher quality and more nutrient dense than white rice. 

Royal Canin is terrible, avoid if at all possible. Their "breed specific" formulas are nothing short of a joke, and for the ingredients they use, should be charging MUCH less for the food. Way overpriced for an inferior product. 

Some people have differing opinions on puppy formulas, but I ABSOLUTELY recommend you stick to a puppy line for at least the first year of life. If not, be very careful to select an appropriate all-life-stages food with the correct calcium/phosphorus numbers. Your puppies food should have less that 1.5% calcium, and less than 1% phosphorous, else you run the risk of bone growth-spurts, which can be very painful for a puppy.

ETA:

I am not familiar with NuVet. 

I am also not a fan of dogfoodanalysis.com. They are painfully out of date, and IMO prone to bias. They are also run by a Boxer forum, who while may have good options and are worth listening too, are hardly a "reputable" source. While not ideal, I still greatly prefer http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

My breeder gave me some samples of the NuVet when I picked up my puppy. I gave her the supplements until they ran out and never gave them to her after. My dog has a healthy coat, good drive, appetite is good, and she is very healthy. I might give her a supplement later on...but not right now. Nothing bad to say about.


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## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

According to this site, kirkland got 110 (A+). I went woth kirkland because its $26 for 40lbs of food. Good reviews on the web, and high scores. Cheap price compared tp others, and I used to work for costco when I was younger. They really do focus on premium products.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

dogfoodproject.com is another site you may find helpful. It is important to learn why one food is seen as better than another. One day that brand may not be the same quality it once was like Iams, Science Diet, Royal Canin, Eukanuba, etc..

If you feed puppy food make sure you feed large breed puppy formulas

There are a ton of threads here on the subject. Check out this section Feeding Our Puppy - German Shepherd Dog Forums


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## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

adamdude04 said:


> According to this site, kirkland got 110 (A+). I went woth kirkland because its $26 for 40lbs of food. Good reviews on the web, and high scores. Cheap price compared tp others, and I used to work for costco when I was younger. They really do focus on premium products.


Dog Food Ratings - Where Does Your Favorite Rank?
Forgot to post link.. Lol


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

I usually refer to the dogfoodadvisor.com and cross reference it with the Whole Dog Journals yearly listing. 
Here's the latest from WDJ, copied from another site since I lost my copy.
BoxerTalk.org - 2010 Whole Dog Journal's Recommended DRY Food List


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

That little rating thing where you add and subtact for different ingredients is a bunch of BS. Seriously, taking points AWAY if the food has beef or lamb in it?!?!?! But ADDING points for oatmeal, barley (very common allergy trigger), fruits (Has very little use to dogs), veggies (Again, little use to dogs), probiotics (Which would be destroyed during the cooking process and therefore useless), glucosamine/chondriotin (No kibble contains enough to make a difference anyways), because it's recommended by vets (So is Iams, Eukanuba and Science Diet, all a bunch of CRAP) or adding points for SUNFLOWER OIL which can increase the risk of cancer?!?! They're got their stuff a bit backwards.


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## WhiteVegas (Oct 31, 2010)

what about beneful,pedigree,ol roy etc...??


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

WhiteVegas said:


> what about beneful,pedigree,ol roy etc...??


 Those are among the very worst foods available. The ingredients are nothing but crap bottom of the barrel fillers and chemicals


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

atravis said:


> A few things-
> 
> "meal" in and of itself is not a horrible thing. Its the QUALITY of meal that makes the difference, and you always want it to be a named meat source. For instance, a food that uses "chicken meal" or "lamb meal" is generally using a high-quality ingredient. A food using "meat meal" or "by-product meal" or "poultry meal" is not.
> 
> ...


 
Whatever you do don't take advice like this.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

_I would stay away from blue bluffalo too._

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/diet-nutrition/145562-blue-buffalo-what-they-hiding.html


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

sable123 said:


> Whatever you do don't take advice like this.



Excuse me? And posts like this are helping the OP _how_?

If you disagree, then you might want to consider enlightening us to WHY that is.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

bocron said:


> I usually refer to the dogfoodadvisor.com and cross reference it with the Whole Dog Journals yearly listing.
> Here's the latest from WDJ, copied from another site since I lost my copy.
> BoxerTalk.org - 2010 Whole Dog Journal's Recommended DRY Food List


The burden of proof is on you because you speak with such conviction, but I will educate you.

1) "Corn, wheat, and soy should be avoided at all cost in your dog's food. He is a carnivore, and while he CAN process a portion of those ingredients in a cooked form, his body is putting much more work into the digestion than he is getting back from what little nutrients they provide. In short, not worth it at all. Plus corn is one of the highest allergens in dogs" 

Wheat and soy are in fact common allergens but they are much less likely to cause a reaction than Chicken, Beef, Eggs & Dairy. That is proven scientific fact, peer reviewed studies.

Corn is not in fact a common allergen, in fact Cornell & Penn have shown that rice and corn are equal. That is proven scientific fact, peer reviewed studies.

Overall only 10% of confirmed allergy cases have anything to do with diet at all.

2) "COOKED grains are also digestible, can provide some nutrients, but on the whole not necessary. If you feed a grain-inclusive food, try to only look for ones that use things like brown rice or oatmeal, as they are generally consider higher quality and more nutrient dense than white rice"

Brown rice and oats are fine ingredients but they are no where near the nutritional density of corn. All grains need to be gelatinized but once that is done the protein in corn is the easiest to assimilate and the starch is 99% digestible just like rice. In 2004 Cornell studied the cancer fighting power of common foods and it was found that corn has 3 times the compounds that fight cancer than broccoli. Roughly half the amount of corn can be used to acheive the same nutritional benenfit as rice or oats.

Corn has also been proven to keep blood insulin levels more stable, especially when compared to potatos.



You are right on dogfoodanalyis.com, see I am fair.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Ha.... haha. Ok, now I get it.

If you want to be believe dogs are designed to digest corn, and that they ACTUALLY gain anything from eating it, then you go right on ahead believing. I don't need a peer reviewed studdy to tell my dog is a CARNIVORE, with the digestive tract of a CARNIVORE, designed to process meat, not corn or grains. 

Dogs have survived thousands of years WITHOUT processed corn meals and glutens in their diets. The very fact that the corn absolutely MUST be cooked in order for them to gain anything at all from it, is proof enough of that. I don't see many wild dogs cooking their food, but maybe I'm missing out on something here.

I'll stick to raw, thanks, minus the corn. I suggest anyone else feeding their dog, kibble or otherwise, do the same.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I personally would not feed corn and wheat and what not.

But I do recommend Solid Gold Wolf Cub (even though it is not grainless)for large breed puppies and IMO they should be on it until they are a year old and then you can make the switch.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

atravis said:


> Ha.... haha. Ok, now I get it.
> 
> If you want to be believe dogs are designed to digest corn, and that they ACTUALLY gain anything from eating it, then you go right on ahead believing. I don't need a peer reviewed studdy to tell my dog is a CARNIVORE, with the digestive tract of a CARNIVORE, designed to process meat, not corn or grains.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

atravis said:


> Ha.... haha. Ok, now I get it.
> 
> If you want to be believe dogs are designed to digest corn, and that they ACTUALLY gain anything from eating it, then you go right on ahead believing. I don't need a peer reviewed studdy to tell my dog is a CARNIVORE, with the digestive tract of a CARNIVORE, designed to process meat, not corn or grains.
> 
> ...


This person did not ask for advice on raw feeding, rather a recommendation on a dry food.

So my advise to the original poster is find a food where a protein meal is the first ingredient and since you are asking about a dry food because a source of starch must be used to make it, one with corn or a combination of rice and corn. I like 30/20's because they can be used througout the life of the dog and have lower levels of total carbohydrate.





Your suggestions are 100% incorrect. Dogs are in fact designed to digest whatever is available. Whether its meat, bone, wild grains, fruit and vegetables.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Just because they CAN, does not mean they SHOULD.

Dogs can eat sawdust too, doesn't mean they should


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

atravis said:


> Just because they CAN, does not mean they SHOULD.
> 
> Dogs can eat sawdust too, doesn't mean they should


You read too much propaganda by Steve Brown & Tom Lonsdale. Zoos & rescue organizations use regular commercial kibbles for wolves & foxes and they thrive on them, actually they live much longer than most companion animals.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

I read no propaganda, never heard of either of the people you mentioned, though I would LOVE to see studies showing that captive wolves liver BETTER, HEALTHIER lives on corn-inclusive kibbles.

Longevity means nothing to me. Unless studies have ALSO been done on feeding appropriately balanced cooked and raw diets, as well as grain-free, corn-free diets, then the results they get from feeding corn-inclusive foods means nothing. All it does is prove that dogs/wolves/whatever can _survive_ on such foods. Which I'm not debating they can't.

BUT, for many people, myself included, simply "surviving" is NOT the same thing as thriving.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

sable123 said:


> You read too much propaganda by Steve Brown & Tom Lonsdale. Zoos & rescue organizations use regular commercial kibbles for wolves & foxes and they thrive on them, actually they live much longer than most companion animals.


yes, dog food can maintain captive wolves, just as many humans can be maintained by food that is less than ideal. what this passage fails to disclose is the biggest reason kibble is used to maintain wolves in zoos. i am friends with a couple people who used to work at Brookfield Zoo outside of chicago. while they agree raw diets are more natural and healthy, they also admit the *realities of the tight budgets facing zoos necessitates the use of commercially prepared foods whenever possible.*
the kibble bought in bulk is many, many times cheaper than buying/preparing/storing a biologically appropriate diet.


*the reason they live longer has nothing to do with eating commercial kibble. it has to do with the availability of veterinary care and environmental controls, things they do not get in the wild.*

give them those advantages plus biologically appropriate meals and it would be amazing how long they could live.............but as stated above it is not economically feasible for zoos to do this.

here is an example of a common feed used at zoos for Wolves:

Mazuri Canine Exotic Diet (zoos buy this stuff for around $22-$25 per 33 lbs)

http://www.mazuri.com/PDF/5MN2.pdf

_here are the first 10 ingredients:_
_ground corn, poultry by product meal, ground brown rice, corn gluten meal, porcine animal fat preserved with BHA, poultry fat preserved with ethoxyquin, porcine meat meal, brewers dried yeast, dried beet pulp, ground soybean hulls......._


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

sable123 said:


> Your suggestions are 100% incorrect. Dogs are in fact designed to digest whatever is available. Whether its meat, bone, wild grains, fruit and vegetables.


wolves wont even eat the stomach contents of their herbivore prey (which of course contain grains, fruit, and vegetables) unless they are nearing starvation 

The following quotations are taken from L. David Mech's 2003 book Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation. Mech (and the others who contributed to this book) is *considered the world's leading wolf biologist*, and this book is a compilation of 350 collective years of research, experiments, and careful field observations. These quotes are taken from chapter 4, The Wolf as a Carnivore.

_"Wolves usually tear into the body cavity of large prey and...consume the larger internal organs, such as lungs, heart, and liver. *The large rumen [, which is one of the main stomach chambers in large ruminant herbivores,]...is usually punctured during removal and its contents spilled. The vegetation in the intestinal tract is of no interest to the wolves, but the stomach lining and intestinal wall are consumed,* and their contents further strewn about the kill site." (pg.123, emphasis added)

*"To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system*."_


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Wolves eat whatever is around. They also eat tons of nuts, especially pine nuts in the fall. There is virtually nothing a wolf won't eat if it is around.

That is evolution for you.


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## GROVEBEAUTY (Oct 23, 2008)

We feed Solid Gold and have had good results.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

sable123 said:


> You read too much propaganda by Steve Brown & Tom Lonsdale. Zoos & rescue organizations use regular commercial kibbles for wolves & foxes and they thrive on them, actually they live much longer than most companion animals.



I would not call Tom Lonsdale propaganda. After all, he loses money in his vet practice because he points out that truth that if you feed Raw Meaty Bones and Offal you will have better health by not having periodontal disease. I tend to believe someone who has something to lose because he tells the truth about his patients health and is concerned with ROOT CAUSE vs. someone who has something to gain (i.e. pet food companies, vets that sell pet food, etc....). 

Any kibble food will require the pet owner to have their dog's teeth cleaned at some point - maybe not every year as some kibble is better than others it seems. 

While I'm not 100% raw just due to my own convenience, I do ensure my dogs are getting Raw Meaty Bones weekly to ensure their teeth are properly scrubbed and they are getting what mother nature intended. They also love their Green Tripe and Chicken hearts. 

Some good sources of information on RAW from Dr. Lonsdale's view via the Doggy Bytes Blog:

Tips: Dr. Tom Lonsdale on Feeding Raw Meaty Bones

and how to feed your modified house wolf

Dr. Tom Lonsdale on Feeding Your Modified House Wolf

and there is other great information on 

Raw Dog Ranch - Welcome!

Whether kibble or raw, just remember good periodontal health is essential to over all good health.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

sable123 said:


> YouTube - Wolves eating berries!
> 
> Wolves eat whatever is around. They also eat tons of nuts, especially pine nuts in the fall. There is virtually nothing a wolf won't eat if it is around.
> 
> That is evolution for you.


 
sure, they will eat them when there is a shortage of what they need. 

i could post videos of tons of kids pigging out at mc donalds...it doesnt mean that what somone or something willl eat is what if good for them or needed, biologically speaking.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

I'd rather be a wolf at one of these places:

**** Van Patten's Natural BalanceZoological Formulas™

Audubon Bird of Prey Center, Mastland, FL 
Big Cat Rescue, Tampa, FL
Brockett's Film Fauna, Thousand Oaks, CA
Brookfield Zoo, Brookfield, IL 
Fund for Animals, San Diego, CA 
Lincoln Park Zoo, Chicago, IL 
Living Desert, Palm Desert, CA
Michael Jackson's Neverland Valley Ranch, Los Olivos, CA 
Milwaukee County Zoo, Milwaukee, WI 
Moorpark College, Moorpark, CA 
Point Defiance Zoo & Aquarium, Tacoma, WA 
Rosamund Gifford Zoo, Syracuse, NY 
San Diego Wild Animal Park, San Diego, CA 
San Diego Zoo, San Diego, CA 
Santa Ana Zoo, Santa Ana, CA 
Sea World, Orlando, FL (meat-eating Birds) 
Sea World, San Diego, CA (Polar Bears) 
Seneca Park Zoo, Rochester, NY
Serengeti Ranch Co., Ventura, CA 
Siegfried and Roy, Las Vegas, NV 
Staten Island Zoo, Staten Island, NY 
Tippi Hedren's Shambala Preserve, Acton, CA 
Toledo Zoo, Toledo, OH
University of California (kestral facility), Davis, CA

They get some good grub!

**** Van Patten's Natural BalanceZoological Formulas™ Carnivore 5

Beef, Beef Hearts, Beet Pulp, Tricalcium Phosphate, Ground Whole Flaxseed, Sodium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Biotin, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Dimethyl-Pyrimidinol Bisulfite, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamin Mononitrate, Manganese Sulfate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.

Back to Orig. Poster - 
*
Each situation with food is different. And each situation with dogs are different. Do what is best for your dog, your budget and your situation - be happy with your new puppy and CONGRATS!!!!!!*


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## julieandty (Jan 21, 2015)

Can someone please help? I have a german shepherd dog, he's now 10 years old. He keeps developing pyoderma (skin condition), he has arthritis in his hips, and he now seems to have constant diohorea. Can anyone advise best food for him please?


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## barnyard (Jun 21, 2012)

julieandty said:


> Can someone please help? I have a german shepherd dog, he's now 10 years old. He keeps developing pyoderma (skin condition), he has arthritis in his hips, and he now seems to have constant diohorea. Can anyone advise best food for him please?


What is he on now? Have you changed the diet recently? Is he on medicine for the skin condition.

I don't know much about pyoderma, though with one of my dogs we are dealing with a food allergy. If the diarrhea is constant and you haven't changed food, you could be dealing with all sorts of different things - parasites, allergies, etc. I think a vet visit would be in order to rule out any problems. You might need to add a probiotic, etc if your dog was on antibiotics. Pumpkin is another good addition to help firm up stools, but get your pup checked out first. 
I wouldn't add other supplements for arthritis, etc. until his tummy recovers, though once he is better, I would add joint meds in. It's hard to recommend food since I don't know what he is on, and what your budget it, but you might want to look at changing proteins. So if he is on a chicken based diet, change to a good fish based food, for instance. You might also want to look at a more simple formula to help with his tummy. There are lots of good brands out there. I'm currently using Nature's Domain for one of my dogs and my foster, and just started Farmina Cod for my allergy prone pup. Some other good foods, depending on budget, include Fromm, Acana/Orijen, Dr Tim's, Wellness, Victor, etc.


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