# Young Dam first litter



## Geobill2000 (Sep 23, 2020)

Hi,

We are getting our first pup in two weeks. We were told that dam and sire were two years old, however we've checked the paper work and the dam was born mid Jan 2019 and sire was born October 2018.

She had a litter of 12 but one didn't make it. I only found this out by stalking the breeder on Facebook. Our girl is one of the smallest pups of the litter.

Aside from the lack of health scoring (which I know is bad), is there anything that we may need to keep in mind with a young dam?

They started on solid food at two weeks but we're still getting milk once or twice a day when we visited at 4.5 weeks. The puppies live on a farm, in a heated barn, so we are concerned that they will be harder to socialise. At the time of visiting, mum was mainly in her kennel. We met both her and Dad, both were friendly dogs.

Our pup is the first on the left hand side. I believe the runt of the litter is sable in the middle. This photo was taken at 4 weeks.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

They should have shown you a pedigree before taking a deposit. If feel you were cheated, ask for a refund and find a different breeder. If you want the dog, buy it. It’s too late now to worry about health risks.


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## Geobill2000 (Sep 23, 2020)

LuvShepherds said:


> They should have shown you a pedigree before taking a deposit. If feel you were cheated, ask for a refund and find a different breeder. If you want the dog, buy it. It’s too late now to worry about health risks.



We asked for the docs early on, and she sent the lineage but not the KC number, until yesterday. I think it was to hide the ages of the dogs. We've been looking for a while and to be honest, we were unsure, but perhaps stupidly agreed to put a deposit down becuase we kept being pipped to the post in the past.

If her health checks come back okay at the vet, we are keen to have her. I am concerned about her size, the fact they are being in a barn and a potentially inexperienced mum though.

Are there any specific issues that could arrise from a young mum that I need to look out for?


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

The only thing I'll address is the barn. Looks like a clean well kept area. Our girls (same breeder) different years were raised in an outdoor kennel but with plentiful human interaction. Our girls are well balanced great to live with dogs. I don't think being kept in a house is a make or break issue.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

My dog was kept in a barn but once he was weaned, the puppies were in the house at night with the breeder a few nights a week. She rotated the parents in and out unless the dam had a young litter. I think it was due to the noise. She wanted to sleep at night.

Have they done health testing?


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## Kari01 (Sep 7, 2018)

The dam is young, but not inappropriately young from a birthing / rearing / health of puppies point of view. Since she has already birthed and weaned the puppies, there shouldn't really be any further cause for concern regarding that. Most breeders will wait minimum until 2 years old specifically so the parents can be health tested, but slightly younger dogs are still fully capable of breeding healthy puppies (it's just not best practice). One pup out of 12 passing away isn't necessarily a cause for concern either, depending on why and when. 

Being raised in a barn could be fine, but from the complete picture it would stand to reason that the pups may not be that well socialized. The breeder isn't doing everything by the book or to full ethical standards, so there isn't any reason to think they put loads of extra effort to socialize the pups. You seem pretty set on your purchase, so I would just say enjoy your pup and learn as much as you can!


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## Geobill2000 (Sep 23, 2020)

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. 

It is my first pup so I think I have been potentially a bit naive with the breeder. We will put extra effort into making sure she's properly socialised. Hopefully everything goes okay at the vets, and she catches up in size soon enough.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I went to look at some pups (back in the day before you knew better .. everyone around here got their pups from ads in the newspaper/thrifty nickel). The breeder had a kennel area and I was looking at an older female pup (around 10-12 wks, not 8 wks). She was running with another pup, a little 12 wk male out in the aisles between the individual kennels, basically having the run of the kennel area. I'd never had males, but he wouldn't leave me alone and I ended up taking him home after he chose ME. Those pups had interaction with the breeder and other visitors, but they didn't have any type of training or socialization. He was a great dog, smart, calm in public, and a star in obedience. Whatever their circumstances, a good dog is a good dog. 

Remember, socialization means "exposure" not necessarily meeting nose to nose with a bunch of dogs, people, etc. Enjoy the puppy and then enroll it in some classes at some point.


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## Geobill2000 (Sep 23, 2020)

This sounds very similar to the pup we chose. They were out playing in the yard, a lot of them quite sleepy as it was a warm day. This little girl came to us loads, lots of eye contact and tail wagging compared to the rest. There was a beautiful big boy, the best looking of the litter still available, but this little girl really connected with us. 

We have already found a puppy school, the owner of which has GSD's herself, so when the pup is ready, we will take her in. Thanks again for the advice, appreciate it!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

most often a young dam is no different than a teen mom... so i wouldn’t expect anything different from the pup based solely on the moms age.

my issue with your situation is more of a moral dilemma. you’re paying, i imagine, a decent amount of money for this pup and you were lied to. a GSD is not the easiest dog for a first timer and personally i’d want all things stacked in my favor. tho i will say, the barn set up looks very clean and professional.

so parents health is unknown, temperament likely unknown (aside from i presume lack of any formal training, work, titles, etc... my dogs have had notable changes once reaching maturity at 2 or later).... let alone knowing how these two dogs will compliment each other (breeders intention of the pairing) and how about breeder support? if you can’t trust them now, i wouldn’t count on having them as a reliable resource in the future.

so those are just my thoughts... the dog may turn out great! after all, all of my rescues have been wonderful and who knows the age/health/temperament of their parents or the environment they grew up in.

but, as a long time member of this board, the amount of times i see posters with a problem or inquiry and some of the early responses are “what did your breeder say/think” “did you ask your breeder” “your breeder should have that info” “have you contacted the breeder” and met with blank stares - it suggests that breeder contact / support / relationships are way under utilized or unavailable.


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## Geobill2000 (Sep 23, 2020)

Fodder said:


> most often a young dam is no different than a teen mom... so i wouldn’t expect anything different from the pup based solely on the moms age.
> 
> my issue with your situation is more of a moral dilemma. you’re paying, i imagine, a decent amount of money for this pup and you were lied to. a GSD is not the easiest dog for a first timer and personally i’d want all things stacked in my favor. tho i will say, the barn set up looks very clean and professional.
> 
> ...




I think you're absolutely right, given the reluctance we had to get paperwork, and hiding the DOB's from us, I'm not sure about what long term support for the pup she will offer. We will speak with the breeder and air our concerns with her and take it from there. We met both parents, albeit briefly. I may ask to visit again this weekend to see if we can observe the parents more, as well as the puppies.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

KatieMcall said:


> I think you're absolutely right, given the reluctance we had to get paperwork, and hiding the DOB's from us, I'm not sure about what long term support for the pup she will offer. We will speak with the breeder and air our concerns with her and take it from there. We met both parents, albeit briefly. I may ask to visit again this weekend to see if we can observe the parents more, as well as the puppies.


Rely on your trainer and your vet. Do you have a good vet?


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I would check the puppy out carefully. You want a pup that's curious, eager to engage with you, playful and bright-eyed.
I picked out a poodle pup for my mom. The pup the breeder recommended didn't want to engage with me, and showed zero curiosity when taken outside. All he wanted to do was go back into the house.

Next pup was curious, sniffed around, took in the sights and sounds of a busy street with no fear, and came to me readily when I clapped my hands to get his attention. 

Everyone who's ever met him says what a wonderful dog he is!


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## Geobill2000 (Sep 23, 2020)

I have asked to view the litter and parents again this weekend, so hopefully the breeder can accomodate us.

The little girl we picked was definitely the curious friendly pup. She was playful, came to us a few times, whilst the rest either slept or paid us little to no attention. We hope she's the same when we see her again. The breeder described her as being the sweetheart of the litter, and she was.

We took this photo from an updated version of the advert, I'm fairly certain our girl is the little one in the middle. There's another two in the litter who didn't quite make the shot, but they are a gorgeous brood!


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## Geobill2000 (Sep 23, 2020)

We are in the process of finding one. A neighbour in our area has suggested a local vet to us, they appear to have good reviews too!


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Stuff happens, and sometimes a new puppy owner knows more than a breeder and can actually educate a breeder with an oops litter or BYB to avoid the mistakes in the future.
From the pics the pups look clean and well taken care for.
Obviously you are talking chances with your pup as far as parents health clearances etc.
I also did, I wasn’t looking for a GS, I saw a weird add on Craigslist about trading a GS pup for kids toys. A 29y.o mother of 5...placed this add. I had toys, I wanted to get the pup of the Craigslist before she’ll end who knows where...
Actually I still send them updated about Lexie and gently try to educate them.
Lexie is almost 15 months and we had her since 9 weeks. So far so good, sweet, easy going, mellow family dog.
Gets along with everyone.


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## Geobill2000 (Sep 23, 2020)

Lexie’s mom said:


> Stuff happens, and sometimes a new puppy owner knows more than a breeder and can actually educate a breeder with an oops litter or BYB to avoid the mistakes in the future.
> From the pics the pups look clean and well taken care for.
> Obviously you are talking chances with your pup as far as parents health clearances etc.
> I also did, I wasn’t looking for a GS, I saw a weird add on Craigslist about trading a GS pup for kids toys. A 29y.o mother of 5...placed this add. I had toys, I wanted to get the pup of the Craigslist before she’ll end who knows where...
> ...



Thanks for this, you've helped put me at ease. 

We went to visit her again and I got much better vibes from the breeder this time, perhaps it was becuase I got a chance to ask more questions. Our girl has sure put on the timber, she's still smaller in frame size than the rest but she's definitely grown and got a beautiful puppy belly on her. We have said we will stay in touch, so perhaps we can learn from eachother. 

Here's some puppy spam too.


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