# IL - Dog "theft" and good deeds



## WendiGSD (Mar 16, 2006)

I haven't been here in awhile, but came across this story today in my local paper. I wanted to see what people here think of the situation









http://www.kcchronicle.com/articles/2009/12/26/17933920/index.xml

IMHO, I think it's ridiculous that the owner is pressing charges. He/She is lucky the dog didn't end up dead somewhere. Jennifer Aviles may not have handled the situation the right way, but I certainly don't think there was any malicious intent on her part.

Happy holidays everyone!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Well I have to say...if someone took my dog from my front yard and put her on craigslist I at the very least press charges. Of course I would never let a dog out without identification and I don't let them out without me.

It sounds like the foster screwed up, the girl made it worse (who doesn't know to contact the local shelter?) and craiglist most certainly does NOT let you sell an animal. It's against policy.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

So the owner waits until the next day to file a report? did the owner put any pictures up of lost dog or put a picture up on craigslist? Not that the article stated. Not saying it was right to put a $150 figure on craigslist, but she said it was just to get serious contacts and the person who got the dog didn't pay any money. Which confirms here intent - to find a home for a dog left roaming the street from an owner who had NO ID on the dog. Maybe she had a bad experience with the shelters in the passed or didn't know exactly what the process is when you find a lost dog. Who knows - but the article def. makes it sound as if the owner went overboard.

I remember when Louis got lost by my dog sitter. As soon as I got to my apartment in NC (I was on the road when I got the call - in GA! - that was a long ride!) I was handing out flyers - which my sitter already had put together for me. And I stayed up all night looking for him. I did findtoto.com and my sitter already filed a report w/the police w/in 1 hour of not being able to find him. A reward was offered and we did find him on the 3rd day.

I don't know the whole situation other than what the article says, but the owner sounds rather odd to me - leaving a sick dog outside in an unfenced yard and unsupervised! I hope the girl is found not guilty and the case is dismissed. And her record is expunged.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

IMHO the owner of the dog was lax in not watching him when she put him outside to go potty in an unfenced area. 

On the other hand, Jennifer Aviles also did several things wrong. She should have contacted the animal shelter and asked what she should do with him instead of placing an ad in the paper trying to sell the dog for $150. At the very least she should have placed an ad in the LOST & FOUND section of the local paper. 

I know I'd be mad if someone found one of the Hooligans and tried to sell him or give him without going thru the proper legal channels. 

However, I feel the maximum penalty of a $1,000 fine and a year in prison would be an unfair punishment.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I think both are at fault. The owner shouldn't be letting the dog out without a collar or taking days before trying to find a (SICK!) rescue dog and the girl should have immediately taken the dog to a shelter, rather than just thinking she was going to keep it and then trying to post it on Craigslist. I don't even really understand how Craigslist was a first thought and not a shelter, whose job it is to find pets new and loving homes. This is just weird all around.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

he waited to call the police until he had contacted the animal shelter. a neighbor had already told him that someone picked up the dog. so, I don't see anything unusual in contacting them before the police.

the woman was actually found when she put the dog on Craig's List for sale. not a "lost dog" on craig's list but for sell..

yes, the owner was at fault for not having ID on the dog, but accidents happen and any of us could have our dog get out without tags (I know many people here don't use collars inside the house) what if someone picked up the dog and then offered it for sale instead of trying to find the owner?

as for not posting flyers, he was expecting the dog to show up. so I won't fault him for waiting until morning. plus, he knew that a person had picked up the dog, so it seems natural to expect the dog to be taken to AC. 
He didn't wait days, it was the next morning!


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JerzeyGSDI think both are at fault.


This is exactly right. You have an unexperienced owner, LAZY at that to not be outside with the dog, and not putting proper identification on the dog, and you have some college student that was obviously looking for some quick cash when she ran into this situation. 

A good samaritian, ( as she so calls herself ) would have atleast knocked on a few doors with the dog to see if anyone could identify the dog, and point her in the right direction. After doing that, loading the dog into her car and making a bee line for the nearest shelter would be the next step. NOT TRYING TO MAKE A PROFIT OFF CRAIGSLIST. And on Craigslist, you are to set a "small rehoming" fee. 

There has been quite a few dogs stolen, and put on craigslist these last few months.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

sergeant, I think that is why I put a tad more blame on the girl. she made NO effort to find the owner. The guy could have harder, instead of waiting a day to contact the police. but the girl just instantly assumed the dog was neglected, not lost, just that he was neglected and needed a new home.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

Yeah. Lol. $150.00 bucks for a lost dog on Craigslist. She had no intentions of finding the owner.


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## WendiGSD (Mar 16, 2006)

Thanks for the replies. From what *I* understand going by this particular article is that the dog was not in the owners yard. As far as where the dog was found in relation to the home, I have no idea. 

From the IL Craigslist it is NOT okay to sell an animal. However, asking an adoption fee (the $150.00) is permitted. From what I read she felt that asking the $150.00 would somehow ensure a responsible person would take the dog. She did not ask for, or receive, any money once she was in contact with the third party that wanted the dog.

Again.... In NO way am I saying the way she went about it was the right way. Craigslist would not have even been in my mind with the exception of the Lost & Found section. I just don't feel that she should be charged with the theft of the dog. 

I hope both parties have gained something from this experience. 

Thanks for your opinions and responses!!


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

I misread - I assumed she listed it in lost and found but for some reason did the re-homing fee! ARGHHH!!! Yeah - that sounds really odd. Very strange!


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

I still think she was trying to capitalize by trying to make some money on the situation. Really, a responsible person would have taken the dog to a shelter at the very minimum. She took the dog home, and listed it on a website. LoL.


But who knows, really. Thats just what I think.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I think she was being really stupid. Unless you have no intention of returning the dog, you try to find the owner. If you take it to the pound, you can put a hold on the dog so that you can be notified if no one claims it.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

middleofnowhere, correct. Also, many dogs are microchipped these days. Thats the surefire way to find who it belongs to. Nearly all shelters/pounds/adoption centers have the wand to find the microchip. 

Who knows what she was really thinking, but from what it looks like she was trying to cash in. Lots of people are doing that these days. Stealing dogs, and selling them on Craigslist. Or adopting them, and reselling them on Craigslist for inflated prices.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: WendiGSDShe did not ask for, or receive, any money once she was in contact with the third party that wanted the dog.
> I just don't feel that she should be charged with the theft of the dog.


she was only charged with theft after she listed a $$ for the dog, which legally is proof that she planned to deprive the owner of his property. otherwise, it would have been no different than anyone else that finds a lost dog and lists it as lost. but, once she put it with an adoption fee, it was obvious that she didn't plan to return him.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

Dainerra, correct. If you find something that isnt yours, you cant sell it! LoL. It doesnt belong to you.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

exactly.. it wasn't that she took the dog, it was that she made no attempt to find the owner and her listing was proof that she had no intention of doing it. the fact that the dog wasn't listed as "found" but as looking for a new home is only made worse by the fact that by setting a price, that opens the door to profiting from "stolen" goods.

it's not "finders keepers" lol


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

This is not at all common practice for heartless people to steal dogs, and sell them. Take a look at the links below. 




http://westernmass.craigslist.org/pet/1525956220.html

http://www.dogflu.ca/02132009/08/pennsylvania_woman_sells_neighbors_dogs_on_craigslist

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/pet/1522611686.html

http://animalsthatgivepause.com/archives/70

http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=15316


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

I doubt she was trying to "cash in" on an emaciated dog...and it says she did NOT collect a fee
"With the help of her coworkers, she found a man in Spring Grove who wanted the dog. Authorities spoke with him and confirmed he did not pay her for it, according to the report."
She claims she was looking for "serious" inquiries only...and thus why she set that adoption price on craigslist. I get that. 

The ower was negligent...for letting a dog outside in an unfenced yard unsupervised...near a road nonetheless...and one he apparently just rescued (since the dog was still emaciated). She was negligent for not trying to find the owner by contacting local shelter/vet etc and leaving the information on the found dog. (you don't have to turn the dog into the shelter...in fact they are very pleased when you offer to keep the dog at your home and just leave the information...I have done that in the past...and they contact me as soon as they get a call on a lost dog matching the dog I found). She should have also had the dog scanned for a microchip and could have put up flyers or an ad in the paper. I feel we need to make a reasonable effort to find an owner. I give her the benefit of the doubt...that in this case...given the condition of the dog...she assumed he had terrible owners if any....but I guess this proves...we can't assume. 

I don't think she should be charged..hopefully it's a learning experience for all involved.....and the owner should be grateful things turned out ok...and that his dog wasn't hit by a car....and learns a lesson from all this.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

I dont know, Myamom. It sure sounds fishy. Even though she didnt take any money, or ask for any..the crime is putting something on a website with a price tag that doesnt belong to you. Im sure we can both agree that she didnt really try very hard at all to find the right owner. She was just looking for ANY owner.

But I agree. Maybe she shouldnt be charged, and yes. Thankfully the dog didnt get hit by a car.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't think anyone can say she didn't try very hard when all the facts are not known. Very little of her side was told in the article.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

The normal good samaritan would either keep the dog themselves and place flyers and run an ad in the paper, thats free to do, or even take the dog to animal control and put a hold on the dog if no one claims him, than you try to find him a home. To immediately place the dog on Craigslist is just plain weird, the average person would not even think of that route to go. I think there's more to this story than we are even hearing.


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## Aviles0217 (Dec 30, 2009)

I am Jennifer Aviles, and I do just want to say that I am sorry about this situation, was i trying to make money? Absolutley NOT, again did just want serious inquiries. I was on my way to work and already late, so thats why I did not knock doors, and I did assume that the dog was neglected, or a stray. As soon as the police contacted me, I did everything in my power to get the dog back, which I did. Again I did not take any money at all, and there are some details thats were left out, like a group of landscapers, or construction workers saw me, not neighbor or neighbors. In hind-sight, yes, I could have done things differently, and I will certainly be pleading NOT GUILTY, because there was no malicious intent, and I was only doing what I thought was right at the time....I just hope that this will be resolved in a positive way.....please dont crucify me becase I was just doing what I thought was right....people make mistakes....and i think i have been punished enough....i lost my extern, lost my school program, stress on my family and myself.....again I was just trying to do what i thought was right....


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

Wish everyone would look at the facts. No money exchanged hands, so it appears that Jennifer did not "intend" on making money off the dog. Look at the dog's condition. It had NO collar and was ematiated. I think anyone of us would think it was an abandoned dog. She asked co-workers to help her find the dog a home.

Did she make mistakes, heck yes. BUT, we don't know if she was all that suavy re: microchips. Should she have called the shelter to report the dog missing, yes, but again, remember the _*condition of the dog*_. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she believed the dog to be abandoned and barely surviving. 

This is an individual who is young, working and going to school at the same time. I'm sure she felt she needed to find a home for this poor dog ASAP. Again, we don't know all the facts. it's easy to jump on a bandwagon when you only know ONE side of the story.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

there are a million ways to have done it that don't even require knocking on doors. or assuming that a dog is neglected or homeless because it's skinny.

why not just call animal control to come pick it up from you? or at least tell them you had it so that an owner looking for a lost dog would know that he was found? why not list the dog in the local paper as found (it's free pretty much everywhere)? why not list him as found on Craig's List? any of these things would have taken no time at all and would have at least shown that you made an effort to find the owner.

the fact that you did nothing is what got you in trouble with the police. the $$ listed on the add just compounded the problem. I don't think that the majority of people see a stray dog in a residential area and assume "finders keepers"


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: DnP
> Did she make mistakes, heck yes. BUT, we don't know if she was all that suavy re: microchips. Should she have called the shelter to report the dog missing, yes, but again, remember the _*condition of the dog*_. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she believed the dog to be abandoned and barely surviving.


I've seen plenty of dogs that are emaciated and under vet care. shoot, I've seen dogs that look like they've lived their entire lives on the streets after being lost only a few hours. 

if your dog escaped or got lost, would you be so understanding if someone decided to keep him just because he was skinny?? or just assumed he was abused and found him a new home? 

ETA: I have plenty of people tell me my dog is abused and underfed because he wears a prong collar and isn't as wide as he is tall. he's a good weight for him, not like the rolly-polly obese dogs everyone is used to seeing. if he plays in the yard for a while, he definitely looks scraggly enough. if he ran through the burrs, people would think he'd been on the streets for weeks, even after 5 minutes.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Dainerra
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: DnP
> ...


First of all, you are speaking as an experienced OWNER of dogs. You are making an assumption that this individual is one as well. You should not assume all people will think as you do. I can tell you that if I saw a _*collarless emaciated dog *_on a street, I'd pick him up too.

If you have had folks tell you that your dog is abused b/c he's got a prong collar on and isn't as wide as he is tall, then YOU should know how it feels to have people make a judgement about you w/o having all the information. Interesting you are willing to do the same thing here.

Most importantly, none of us know all the information. I believe the owners have every right to be po'd about having the dog taken. But remember, they aren't faultless in this scenerio. They left a collarless, sickly (they did say they'd been giving the dog $175 of meds from the vet) *ALONE *outside in an *UNFENCED property*. This wasn't a dog that was a "healthy thin" in our definitions. It was stated in the article that the dog was emaciated.

I'll agree that Jennifer made mistakes regarding how she handled the situation. She could easily have called the shelter and told them that she found the dog and gave a description and tell them she was going to look for a new home for it. But think of this possibility. MOST people don't understand "fostering". They believe either they turn the dog into the shelter or take care of it themselves. If she truly believed the dog to be a stray, do you ever think she didn't want to see the dog end up in a shelter that would have put the dog to sleep? If she truly believed it was a unwanted stray, why would she post flyers? She looked for a home for it. While she advertised in CL, she didn't take any money for the dog. She did NOT PROFIT from it. She thought she was giving the dog to a good home. It wasn't like she just snatched the dog up. She talked to another motorist about it. She knew there were others watching her. Does that sound like someone who was looking to covertly snatch and sell a dog?

When she was notified that the dog indeed had an owner, she made every effort to get the dog back to those rightful owners.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I don't think it has anything to do with being an "experienced" dog person. I've never, before this, seen someone say "oh it's a dog with no home" it's always a "lost dog" with the assumption being that somewhere out there he has a home. said home may not give 2 craps and never look for him, but he more than likely has one somewhere. 

we get dogs wandering in to work all the time, seeing as we are right on the highway. the majority of them don't have collars or if they do they are just pieces of twine or chokers with no tags. who ever sees them calls AC, says there is a lost dog, and they pick it up. more often than not, we will see them again sometime in the future.

Is it a cultural thing? some people are more used to dogs being allowed to roam? I don't know. I know that I've lived in rural areas and in downtown Orlando. and there are lots of strays in both areas. but everyone I've met has still always assumed "lost" not homeless. 

no one said that she was trying to steal the dog. but, in the technical legal world, when she did nothing to see if the dog had an owner, that is what she did. I find a ring on the ground. I put it in my pocket and later decide I don't want it and try to sell it. Still theft. even if I end up giving it to a friend and getting no money, I have still trafficked in stolen property.

as I said, her options weren't "give it to the pound or keep it" it was a 2 second phone call "has anyone lost a dog" as well as a 2 second phone call to the paper to place a FREE ad. she had the dog long enough to put it on Craig's List, so she obviously had the dog long enough to do either of those things.

ETA: I wanted to clarify my ring analogy. Looking to see if someone reported it lost doesn't count. You have to actually post an ad and be able to prove that you tried to find the owner. otherwise, it's stolen. cut and dried, no if's and's or buts... 
in some places, you have to contact the local sheriff, but that depends on the value of the object. but, at least some effort must be made to find the owner. Just waiting to see if someone asks for it doesn't count...


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

Nice of you to always assume every stray is a "lost" dog. I grew up in a rural area and we had plenty of dogs "dumped" on our property. These were definitely NOT "lost" dogs. I have also lived/worked in various cities (NYC, Newark, Philly and DC). I've seen stray dogs on the streets and on the expressways. So I respectfully disagree w/ your thought that no one could ever think "oh it's a dog with no home". It was not exactly a healthy looking dog. 

I think there are folks who would think any dog wandering around collarless and in poor shape who would think the dog was homeless. 

Please note that all of the events occurred in what appears to be a 24/36 hour time period. I don't know about your papers, but to put a FREE ad in takes up to 48 hours to make it into the paper. She found a home for the dog in less that time.

I'm guessing she took the easy route....CL. AT work, at a computer, easiest thing to do. Will agree with you that the right thing to do was to call the local pound or police as a "just in case". She made a mistake. It was a poor judgement call. But I think it was an honest mistake. I honestly believe she thought, homeless dog if it were truly emaciated. 

I know what the definition of theft/larceny is. You also need intent. Did she intend on depriving the owners of their dog or converting the dog for her own use, I don't believe she did because once she found out the dog had owners, she got it to them. BUT, that is solely based on the facts in the article. I know that ignorance of the law is not a defense or gives impunity.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

but, from a legal standpoint, not making an effort to find the owner, but instead to post an ad seeking a new home, shows INTENT to not find the owner. 

that's why she was charged.

----

as for dumped dogs, both here and in WV, the socially acceptable way to get rid of an unwanted dog is to take it out along a side road and dump it out. so, yes, a lot of the dogs may not have someone looking for them.

as I said, though, I was raised and apparently everyone that I've met, that if you find something, the very first thing you do is make sure that someone else isn't looking for it. it's common sense, not to mention basic common courtesy.
also, she had time to post a Craig's List ad. would it have taken any longer to post that ad in "lost and found" instead of "adoption"?


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

I hope whoever allowed the person to foster this dog sets some better rules for caretaking. Anyone could have taken this dog under these circumstances and some of those could have much worse plans for the dog. 

Thanks Jennifer for trying to do the right thing and I am sorry that your career is under threat due to this persons lack of care. There is no way I would want such a fosterer taking care of any animal I was concerned about.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

Intent only exists IF she had that in her mind. If she truly felt it was homeless, she would not believe she needed to post a lost and found ad in either the newspaper or CL. Obviously she didn't believe it had an owner, as she was trying to rehome it b/c she was unable to take care of it herself.

I KNOW why she was charged. The written laws are black and white. The actions showed intent and the owners pressed charges. But you cannot tell me you knew what was going on in Jennifer's mind.

The applied law is not as black and white. Each case is judged on an individual basis. Why we have this thing called due process and innocent until proven guilty.

Nice that you and everyone you've met believe that every dog you've encountered had an owner. I am not talking about every lost item like your ring analogy. We are talking about an emaciated collarless dog. I can tell you that not everyone that I know who has encountered a collarless emaciated dog thought, I must find it's owner.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: DnP... Look at the dog's condition. It had NO collar and was ematiated. I think anyone of us would think it was an abandoned dog. She asked co-workers to help her find the dog a home.
> 
> Did she make mistakes, heck yes. BUT, we don't know if she was all that suavy re: microchips. Should she have called the shelter to report the dog missing, yes, but again, remember the _*condition of the dog*_. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she believed the dog to be abandoned and barely surviving.
> 
> This is an individual who is young, working and going to school at the same time. I'm sure she felt she needed to find a home for this poor dog ASAP. Again, we don't know all the facts. it's easy to jump on a bandwagon when you only know ONE side of the story.





> Originally Posted By: DnP...
> If she truly believed the dog to be a stray, do you ever think she didn't want to see the dog end up in a shelter that would have put the dog to sleep? If she truly believed it was a unwanted stray, why would she post flyers? She looked for a home for it. While she advertised in CL, she didn't take any money for the dog. She did NOT PROFIT from it. She thought she was giving the dog to a good home. It wasn't like she just snatched the dog up. She talked to another motorist about it. She knew there were others watching her. Does that sound like someone who was looking to covertly snatch and sell a dog?
> 
> When she was notified that the dog indeed had an owner, she made every effort to get the dog back to those rightful owners.





> Originally Posted By: DnP ... If she truly felt it was homeless, she would not believe she needed to post a lost and found ad in either the newspaper or CL. Obviously she didn't believe it had an owner, as she was trying to rehome it b/c she was unable to take care of it herself.
> 
> ... We are talking about an emaciated collarless dog. I can tell you that not everyone that I know who has encountered a collarless emaciated dog thought, I must find it's owner.


 So just because someone finds a dog she believes to be abandoned, sickly, ematiated, without identification it's okay for her to ignore legal avenues and go about her merry way doing whatever the heck she wants to do? 

Just because she's young and in school it's okay for her not to call a/c, or put up flyers, or place an ad in LOST & FOUND, or make any attempt whatsoever to find the dog's legal owner? 

Just because she's not an experienced dog owner it's okay for her to sell or give away an animal that does not belong to her? 

Just because she might believe the dog to be a stray, and she didn't want to see the dog end up in a shelter that would have put the dog to sleep it's okay for her to thumb her nose at laws, depriving the dog's legal owners, if any, of a chance of getting their dog back?

The young lady made an awful lot of bad decisions, and IMHO trying to make lame excuses for her actions doesn't help her or anyone else involved in this type of situation.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Arycrest So just because someone finds a dog she believes to be abandoned, sickly, ematiated, without identification it's okay for her to ignore legal avenues and go about her merry way doing whatever the heck she wants to do?
> 
> Just because she's young and in school it's okay for her not to call a/c, or put up flyers, or place an ad in LOST & FOUND, or make any attempt whatsoever to find the dog's legal owner?
> 
> ...


I have not said that it was okay for her to ignore all legal avenues and go about her merry way doing whatever the heck she wants to. I've never said that NOR did I ever say it was ok for her not to call the a/c, put up flyers or place a LOST & FOUND ad or to find it's legal owner.

She should have done those things. 

You are making her sound like a menace and she intentially "thumbed her nose at laws". I'm not getting that vibe from the article. WHICH IS ONLY ONE SIDE OF THE STORY. If I got the "complete picture", my opinion could change. But I'm only going on what information is available. 

I'm not disagreeing that she made poor decisions in this situation. BUT at the same time, I see no nefarious intentions in the actions she took.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: DnP
> 
> I'm not disagreeing that she made poor decisions in this situation. BUT at the same time, I see no nefarious intentions in the actions she took.


all I can think about that is, "the road to *HECK* is paved with good intentions"
I guess I see her actions as lack of basic courtesy and common sense. 
I don't view her as a menace and I doubt anyone else does either. But, she got herself into this mess by not doing something that most people would view as basic sense. 
I don't think 99% of the people here would have left the dog where it was wandering the street. but, they would have listed the dog as "lost" before trying to find it a new home. 
again, I don't think it has anything to do with being experienced with dogs. Just basic courtesy. or, if you are more cynical, how about calling it "covering your rear" even inanimate objects can get lost, let alone a dog with a mind of its own. and, legally speaking, you have to at least make a token effort to find out if it has an owner. otherwise, you have committed theft.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: DnPI have not said that it was okay for her to ignore all legal avenues and go about her merry way doing whatever the heck she wants to. I've never said that NOR did I ever say it was ok for her not to call the a/c, put up flyers or place a LOST & FOUND ad or to find it's legal owner.
> 
> She should have done those things.
> 
> ...


Diana, I appologize for saying you were making excuses for her poor decisions, it just sounded that way to me.

I guess I'm angry at what she did because that dog could have been my dog, or for that matter, any one else's dog on the board who has had an extremely ill dog. I've had several dogs who looked like they hadn't eaten in a year, yet they lived in a loving home, had extensive vet care, were fed high grade food, took whatever medications their doctor prescribed, and didn't wear collars because I feel they're too dangerous. 

Regardless of the fact if she knew better or not, if she hadn't been caught trying to sell the dog on Craig's List, the dog's owners wouldn't have gotten their dog back. That just send chills up my spine that something like this could happen to me and one of the Hooligans. So maybe I'm right, or maybe I'm wrong, but I have absolutely no sympathy for what the girl is accused of doing.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Gayle, I guess that's what upsets me about it as well.
as far as "not knowing" she was required to look for the owner, who doesn't know that you can't just pick something up on the street and claim it as your own??


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

I agree with both of you to an extent.

She made some extremely poor decisions. As it's been said, the path to heck was paved with good intentions. Everyone has had a brainfart during their lives. Some much bigger than others. I guess what made me less inclined to jump all over her was that she didn't "sell" the dog. She took no money for it. If she had taken money for the dog, whoa, I'd have been all over her actions in a heartbeat. I think she took the "easy" way out. Though, calling a/c and letting them take care of it would have been easier. 

My Dakota, bless his heart, was all skin and bones by the time he passed. I know what it is to have an ill dog who, while getting the best vet care, getting weekly accupuncture and living in a loving home, didn't look like he lived in that kind of environment.

Not to be nitpicky, the dog in this was left outside, alone in an unfenced area with no collar and in poor physical condition. I'd bet neither of you would have left you dog to roam alone in that kind of condition. Especially a new foster or new dog to your household. I'd have bet a dog in that condition would have had your hawk's eye on him. 

I can't condone what she did. She made a mistake, but to crucify her for her good intentions...I just can't do that either. And I guess I can easily say that b/c it wasn't my dog. I will grant you that.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: DnP...
> Not to be nitpicky, the dog in this was left outside, alone in an unfenced area with no collar and in poor physical condition. I'd bet neither of you would have left you dog to roam alone in that kind of condition. Especially a new foster or new dog to your household. I'd have bet a dog in that condition would have had your hawk's eye on him. ...


True, but accidents happen. The girl had absolutely no idea if the dog came from a loving, hopefully secure home where someone accidently left a gate unlocked or if he came from a home where someone put a new rescue outdoors to go potty in an unfenced, unsecure area.

FWIW I keep mentioning that she placed an ad on C/L to sell the dog for $150. What I have neglected to say is I honestly don't think she took the dog with intentions of selling him.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

You are absolutely right...accidents/mistakes/brain farts happen. And they happen all the time.

She showed poor judgement in what she did. She should have called the local shelter(s) about the dog, at the very least. I think we all agree upon that. I think her heart was in the right place but she is now paying for her lack of common sense.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

Its so easy to take 5 minutes to knock on a couple of doors to see if a neighbor could identify whos dog it belongs to.

She pulled over after passing the dog, discussed the matter with a motorist that also pulled over, and then loaded the dog into her car. Neighbors stated that they witnessed her doing this. If a neighbor was watching, 1) why didnt the neighbor come out and say something like " That dog belongs to those people" or 2) why didnt she see the neighbor watching her, and then wave and say " Is this your dog? Do you know whos dog this is?"

I still firmly believe she had other intentions for that dog rather than finding the owner. 

And yes, I also blame the owner for not being a responsible dog owner, and being outside with their dog that is uncollared, and in an unfenced backyard.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Aviles83 I am Jennifer Aviles, ...
> ... and there are some details thats were left out, like a group of landscapers, or construction workers saw me, not neighbor or neighbors.





> Originally Posted By: The Sergeant...
> Neighbors stated that they witnessed her doing this. If a neighbor was watching, 1) why didnt the neighbor come out and say something like " That dog belongs to those people" or 2) why didnt she see the neighbor watching her, and then wave and say " Is this your dog? Do you know whos dog this is?"
> ...


According to the message Jennifer Aviles posted earlier in the thread, they weren't neighbors but "landscapers, or construction workers "


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I'm too cynical to believe that that message was from Jennifer Aviles.. The person the news story was about just happened to pop into a board that she has never been a member of to post one message and then disappears? unless she happens to be spending all her free time hopping around the internet to find every mention of this story to put in her side? of course, I would assume that she would come back if that was the case. or just post a link to a blog of "her side"

and just because the people that she saw standing closest were "landscapers or construction workers" doesn't mean that someone a bit farther away saw what was going on. would also explain why the neighbor didn't well "hey that's Bob's dog!!" perhaps someone who was inside and saw it out the window even.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Yeah, you're right, the person posting here may have been an imposter, I never thought of that. 

But the facts in the original story said it was neighbors who saw her take the dog and later the police and new reports all state that it was landscapers, not neightbors, who witnessed her taking the dog (not that it makes much of a difference). Maybe some neighbors saw it happen, maybe they didn't, but there's no report of any witnesses except for the landscapers. 

From the CHICAGO TRIBUNE:
"The working mother and college student was charged with misdemeanor theft by St. Charles police this month after a landscaping crew reported Aviles beckoned a German Shepherd into her car and the dog's owner discovered she was trying to sell it on Craigslist.com"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-talk-stolen-dog-30-dec30,0,4260985.story


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I hadn't read any follow-up stories. but, once the owner filed a report, it wouldn't be unusual to ask questions of people who were there the morning it happened. plus, landscape crews are usually in the same place on a routine basis.

does it really matter if they were neighbors or just people who were working? I was just responding to someone saying that if neighbors saw it, they should have said something.... 

could even be that no one knew it was Bob's dog until someone went around asking "did you see a black dog yesterday" "yes, I saw a woman put him in a car. did he belong to you?"


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Somehow the fact that the paper stated she was a single working mother annoyed me. What does that have to do with anything? If I am a childless, stay-at-home man would that matter to the case?

As for witnesses - it doesn't matter if they were neighbors or workers does it?

Point I think is - follow the channels so far as a found dog goes.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

I took the time to ask 10 people ( family & friends ) what they would do if they saw a stray dog on the street corner. Out of those 10 people, 10 of them stated that they would probably call the Police, or the Humanes Society or Animal Control, and wait with the dog until someone showed up ( from one of those places ) to handle the dog. ( if time permitted of course ) then I asked, " well, what if you were busy, and were in a rush? Out of those 10 people 8 of them said they would still call, and wait as long as they could. In the mean time they would knock on a few doors. ( The houses closet to where the dog was found )

The other two said they would call, and hit the road.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

Oh, and I just thought of something else. Who in their right mind would load a stray dog into their vehicle? Are you kidding me? Especially a large breed dog. Youre asking to get bitten by doing that.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

actually I would. have more than once. open the door, say "come on doggie" and they hop right in. 

the danger of getting bitten comes from trying to read the collar on a stray dog that is afraid, not from a dog that willingly jumps in your car.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

Dainerra, so the dog willingly jumps into your back seat. What do you do next? Take it home, and advertise it on Craigslist for $150.00?

If anything a nice Craigslist ad should have read " LOST DOG FOUND ON 1234 Anywhere Ave CALL 555-5555 TO CLAIM.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

no, just replying to your post that "who in their right mind would load a stray dog into their vehicle"


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

I know you wouldnt do that. Im saying, after you got the dog in your car you wouldnt put it on the craigslist like she did.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Hubby says that I am not in my right mind though, so.....


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

LOL Are any of us?


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

I guess I'm not in my right mind either...cuz I've done it. And I don't take them to AC...because alot of times...it's a death sentence. IF you have the ability to take them home...and notify AC and look for the owner yourself..and if after all efforts to find one are exhausted and none comes forward...work on getting them into rescue or rehoming them RESPONSIBLY....it's the better option. At many facilities...the majority of dogs never leave alive.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

In my opinion, picking up a stray is bad mojo. You seriously dont know what youre dealing with. Especially, if you have other dogs at your house and you bring the dog home. It could have fleas, or a sickness that may be passed to your dogs. 

I think its a high risk to do something like that. But if you think its the right thing to do, then I respect that. It is a very noble thing to do to pull a lost dog off the street, and take it home to care for it.

The only thing I didnt agree with in this whole thing is advertising it on Craigslist with a price tag.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

I am fully aware of what can be brought into your home...in many cases...it's no different than pulling a dog from the shelter. There are precautions you take...i.e. keeping separate from your animals via quaranteening. 

Ask my husband about the Rottie in the bathroom...yeh..he was thrilled...lol.


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## WayneMeganGSD (Dec 21, 2009)

Lol. I bet thats a fun story.


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

I have loaded lost GSDs, Rotties, Dobermans and many others in my car over the years. I found all of their very grateful owners - granted it took a couple of weeks to reunite the Dobie, but eventually the owner was located. 

The only one that I could not get loaded up was a little bug-eyed chihuahua. He looked like he wanted to kill me. I have taken courses in aggressive dog handling, and there was not anything I could think of that would work with that little dude. Thankfully his owner was nearby and came and collected him out of the middle of the busy interestion where we were having our standoff. 

The only stray that I could not find the owner for was a black Lab (who did not like me and I did not think too kindly of her either!) that my neighbors grandkids found and brought to me. I called the shelter, posted flyers, contacted local vets, put her in the newspaper and on cable TV and when I could not find her owners after having her a month, I adopted her out. And the folks that adopted her were crazy about her. They put all kinds of obedience titles on her and even started a dog park group.

Perhaps I have been extremely lucky, but I have never felt threatened, at all, by any of the loose dogs that I have helped over the years.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

See, and I must be the really crazy one to walk home in sock feet when the dog I found was scared of the crazy human on rollerblades.







I didn't have the option of taking it to the shelter. It's only open Mon-Sat 1-4 and will only come out after hours for an emergency (ie injured stray or vicious/possibly rabid animal). The pup I found was a sweet, friendly if anxious Samoyed that had no street sense. Didn't qualify as an emergency.

I'm not that concerned about a stray bringing something into my home. Fleas are easy to check for (then the dog can stay crated in the garage). Disease? My dogs are/were walked in the same areas and would have been exposed anyway.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

I've also stopped and taken stray dogs into my car if they are in danger of being hurt if they were not "rescued". Luckily, I have mostly had an early outcome, as almost every dog has had a means of identity. Those that haven't and have been taken to another organisation, I have always followed up and each has been adopted or claimed. But, even it they hadn't, I would rather a dog be humanely euthanised (and I acknowledge that is not always guaranteed) than be hit by a car or otherwise abused (bait or lab experimental dogs for example). There have been a couple of dogs that would not accept my help and I only hope they accepted someone else or found their owner themselves.

You can only do what you feel is the right thing at the time and I do think think this person did what she thought was right but maybe she should have investigated other avenues to achieve a better result.

I still think the person who was supposed to be looking after the dog needs a good kick up the arse as this whole situation would not have occurred if that person had been more diligent.


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