# Help getting my puppy's x-rays back from breeder



## Primo (Oct 28, 2011)

Hello,

Few months back I got the puppy from one of the elite GSD breeders. Unfortunately around 7 months my puppy was diagnosed with ED & HD. When I contacted breeder he/she asked for the hip and elbow x-rays which I sent him/her but now he/she won't return it. How do I get it back?

Though my puppy was diagnosed with ED/HD, I do not blame the breeder for it. These are things beyond human control and even with best care and extreme caution, I believe one cannot eliminate it. Anyways, I am only interested in getting my puppy's x-ray films back as they serve as baseline for his HD/ED problem.

Again, at the risk of repeating myself. I am not trying to to blame the breeder for the ED/HD or trying to make warranty claim or demanding refund for the extra premium I paid for so-called "elite puppy" over breeder's normal price. My only concern is well being of my puppy.

Any direction/help/suggestion will be highly appreciated.

Cheers


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Has the breeder told you why they are not returning the films? Or is it a matter of the breeder being unresponsive to your request?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Shouldn't your vet still have copies on file?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

You could request them from the vet again-or contact the breeder again


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Unless they were digital, highly unlikely the vet would have copies.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

That's really crappy of the breeder! Those are your property, if you were the one that paid and had them taken. I always keep my x-rays with me. My vets have never cared or asked why I take them home (most people leave them with the vet). I paid for them so they're mine. My vets do analog films, so there are no copies.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

She is probably wanting to keep them for her records, but you paid for them and they are yours. I would continue to ask her for them, does she reply to your messages at all? Phone calls? Or is she totally ignoring you?
I would persist and tell her you want them returned immediately. If she wants copies, tell her to send them back, find out how much to copy them and then have her pay for a copy.
You might have to go as far as sending a registered letter to demand for them to come back, you might have to say you will contact the breed club and tell them what is going on and that she won't return YOUR xrays and is ignoring you. If she is a well known breeder and just ignoring you because she can, then you might have to play the same game and I am sure she will not want her well known name to be involved in keeping xrays that don't belong to her, especially if she bred the pup.


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## Primo (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try the certified mail and if everything fails, I do not see any reason to protect the breeder. Specially when they care more for the imaginary threat to their reputation ahead of the well being of the innocent life they brought to this world and now beloved member of my family!

Thanks again for the suggestion. I will post the updates in this thread.






wyominggrandma said:


> She is probably wanting to keep them for her records, but you paid for them and they are yours. I would continue to ask her for them, does she reply to your messages at all? Phone calls? Or is she totally ignoring you?
> I would persist and tell her you want them returned immediately. If she wants copies, tell her to send them back, find out how much to copy them and then have her pay for a copy.
> You might have to go as far as sending a registered letter to demand for them to come back, you might have to say you will contact the breed club and tell them what is going on and that she won't return YOUR xrays and is ignoring you. If she is a well known breeder and just ignoring you because she can, then you might have to play the same game and I am sure she will not want her well known name to be involved in keeping xrays that don't belong to her, especially if she bred the pup.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

If they will not give them back, I would suck it up, pay for the films to be taken again, and this time send them directly to OFA yourself. They are playing games.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Primo, just remember to not post the name of the breeder on this board.  Not allowed.

Admin Lisa

******


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## Chaka Zulu (Nov 12, 2011)

Mr Primo.

Having had GSDs for over fifty years and having dealt with more breeders than I can remember, a little advice to you.

It is very common for XRays to be supplied by a Radiologist or DVM in a brown envelope with a notation of "Return to xxx", have you contacted your DVM to make sure the XRays were not sent back directly to them?

Secondly a simple quick phone call to the breeder with a polite request regarding where the XRays currently are, will gain you far more knowledge than posting this kind of message on a BBS. Remember the old GrandMa's saying "You catch more bees with honey than with vinegar".

You keep reiterating that you do not blame the breeder, but all your comments strongly indicate otherwise.

Hip dysplasia and elbow dysplasia are two of the most frequent mis-diagnoses in the GSD world. I would strongly advise you to seek a second opinion, and request that limb musculature is examined in detail rather than just pure skeletal configuration.

I have had the misfortune to have seen GSD puppies that were crated for long periods during their early months and not exercised enough show very similar physical problems. 

While I am not a DVM or breeder, and I am not attempting to diagnose your dog unseen, are you sure that you provided the best environment for a puppy during those critical first months?

Bear in mind that a breeder, no matter how "elite" can only provide you with a starting point, no breeder can ensure that one of their brood will be taken care of or trained correctly or humanely. I have never met a breeder that does not care about all of their puppies, but I have met many that often regret a placement after the fact. I hope this is not the case here.

Please update us after you have had a second unbiased opinion.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Um, the op has not been able to get back xrays that will cost a couple of hundred dollars to re do and you are asking them to update us after they get a second unbiased opinion?????

I do not see any breeder bashing, just someone wanting to get their property back. Your post really confuses me.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Very strange post indeed...makes me wonder if Zulu's the breeder in question!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

And Elbow and HD are NOT two of the most misdiagnosed things in German Shepherds AFTER they have been radiographed. Maybe slight difference in degree of severity, but certainly not misdiagnosed very often.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

msvette2u said:


> Very strange post indeed...makes me wonder if Zulu's the breeder in question!


:thumbup:

I think a letter from an attorney is in order. After that, small claims court for the cost of the x-rays. Around here that amounts to $400.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't see the OP blaming the breeder for their dogs problems,,I DO see him as others have posted, wanting his xrays returned that HE paid for and not getting any response from 'said' breeder.


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## IllinoisGSD (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm going to guess that Chaka is the breeder, being they joined this month only to post in this thread. I think the breeder should do the right thing and return the OP's property. I don't see the OP asking for the breeder to do anything other than return the x-rays either.


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## Chaka Zulu (Nov 12, 2011)

For the conspiracy theorists here let me go on record that I am not the breeder in question, and in fact I have never bred any dog at any time, nor did I have anything to do with the JFK assassination.
I do have many years of experience with GSDs both as pets and as working dogs. I also have the ability to read other posts, on this forum, from this original poster even though he has changed his user name for this post, and I can clearly read between the lines and see his motives. Want to check up on that just search the forum for “Primo”.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

No, not going to do it. He asked a question in this thread and I gave my opinion on that situation.

It is very interesting that you joined a board only to respond to his post.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Primo does not sound like he/she has any ulterior motives they sound kinda reasonable to me. I haven't xrayed many of my dogs-but would definitely reccommend an ortho vet-they took digital xrays and its on computer-Do hope your breeder returns your xrays


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

In PA - X-rays are the PROPERTY of the vet clinic...you pay for a diagnosis, the actual films are part of your vet record....you can 'borrow' them - but the films are really part of the vet record and need to be kept for 7 years (went through this at vet hospital friends owned over horse x-rays).

Digital media - of course - makes things much simpler...but sounds like these are films. Check with the vets, if they don't have them, ask them to send a request for return....

Lee


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I can think of 4 occassions when hip dysplasia was misdiagnosed. I have a small realm of experience so it stands to reason, it may happen too much. Once a puppy was destroyed on the spot by the vet and when others reviewed the xrays....uhoh! I was with a friend when a vet told her that her male was dysplastic. It is not fun to have to have defy what the expert has said, but I did speak up and say I did not think the diagnosis was correct. The dog went OFA good! Another friend was taking a show prospect back because a vet had pronounced the joints as abysmal and reommended the dog be rejected. Once at the city of breeder, my friend agreed to pay for a second set of xrays. These went OFA good and normal! 

I am surprised the vet released a set of xrays to a private citizen other than the owner? If the owner sent them away, then that is a risk. My vet is pretty careful to keep xrays in his possession.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

So the breeder, Zulu, thinks the x-rays are wrong and therefore won't return them. They are instead asking for the owner to re-x-ray the dog, to get a different dx.

Zulu, then you need to pay for the 2nd set of x-rays since you clearly have something that does not belong to you, but rather the vet clinic and the OP.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Zulu said they are NOT the breeder .

However, Zulu, you have insinuated this poster is using a couple different handles? If so, report it to a moderator who will look into it.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Zulu said they are NOT the breeder .
> 
> .


And I don't think people believe him/her


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Last I knew, x rays for hips and elbows weren't regarded as significant until the dog was nearly 2 yo - not 7 mos.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Justine, I think that to, but was reiteratting that they 'claim' to not be the breeder..


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Chaka Zulu said:


> I also have the ability to read other posts, on this forum, from this original poster even though he has changed his user name for this post, and I can clearly read between the lines and see his motives. Want to check up on that just search the forum for “Primo”.



I was wondering how someone could figure this out. I did a search for Primo and just got a list of posts with the word primo in them (as expected). I'm not sure how that proves how or when someone changed their user name? 
I'm not saying someone did or didn't just that I couldn't figure out how to see it for myself.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

When I do x rays I have my vet do a second plate , so that one set can be sent off to OFA , which keeps them, to OVC which returns them to the vet , to the police agency arbiter , or to the VET clinic of the prospective customer , which is returned. The second exposure is kept at the clinic as a record to view in case there is need for discussion or as a template to judge future plates against. Many of my animals are done more than once throughout their lives just to see if there are any changes.

Carmen


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

My vets usually put them on cd's, they keep a copy and gave me a copy, the xrays went off to OFA

And I'm not sure what "zulu" is trying to insinuate as well, since I don't see where THIS OP, has posted anywhere else on the forum..
So again, Zulu, if you are saying this person posting is using a couple handles here, well come on out and tell us


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

One of the threads with the name "Primo" is of our dog Primo von Huerta Hof.
I can assure you that this is not the dog in question. 
*I felt the need to clarify this...as per PM's received...._thank you for the PM's!*_
Primo is a mature adult dog, never bred (yet) and is ScH3, kkl1 a-normal hips & elbows.
*As for HD/ED problems....since this is a problem within the breed....I can relate to the concerns as an owner & breeder....and NO DOG is free from the possibility of producing it.*
I don't really know who the breeder is in question of the non returned xrays.....but do contact them further. No breeder (in their right mind) wants un happy owners....even when it cannot be avoided.


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## Chaka Zulu (Nov 12, 2011)

bocron said:


> I was wondering how someone could figure this out. I did a search for Primo and just got a list of posts with the word primo in them (as expected). I'm not sure how that proves how or when someone changed their user name?
> I'm not saying someone did or didn't just that I couldn't figure out how to see it for myself.


In response to the Moderator's request I can confirm that Primo & VijaR are one and the same person. If you view VijaR's posts you will see a continued vitriolic thread against first one breeder in CT, then the breeder who supplied him with his puppy "Primo".

I picked up on this anomaly while I was researching a separate matter. It is interesting that the OP (Primo) has not made any comment to either confirm or deny these assertions. 

It is my understanding, from sources other than this board and also not from the breeder that this owner is in all likelihood responsible for the current physical condition of his dog. This XRay ploy is aimed at attempting to discredit an honest and conscientious breeder for an ulterior motive. I also have been able to determine that the XRays in question were returned to the DVM, whose property they are, two days after they had been read.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

You sure seem vested and well informed for someone that is not involved.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

As far as prelimns on a puppy for OFA, I do them. They have a decent rate of predictability of adult status. I read the range of predictability is 71% for Chessies up to 100% for Springers. Other breeds fall within the range.

Soooo much depends on the quality of the xrays, the positioning and the radiological abilities of the person looking at them.

I have had dogs who failed OFA. I never ask that my puppies purchased be guaranteed against developing it. The nature of this problem is polygenic and the care of the puppy during raising can affect the development of the disorder.


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

Just wondering did you contact your veterinary? Did you ask if they received the copy back of the xrays? IMO that is what you should do. Hope you can get things worked out.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

** post removed by Admin. **


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

LOL, that should read 'had the xray's read'...that was a typo really I swear!  I think I was thinking had them read and it got crossed in an xray's read thought. ** comment removed by Admin**


**The OP never mentioned the breeder in this thread and actually posted anomalously. The breeder was brought into the situation entirely by a third party. This is all hearsay and will not be tolerated. ADMIN **


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