# Working line breeders in Maryland/PA



## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I'm in the early stages of looking for a breeder and have found a good German Show Line breeder in my area but I want to check out some working line breeders also. There are several close to me but they are almost all sable or black GSDs. (beautiful dogs I just really prefer the black & tans) Does anyone know of a good breeder in Maryland or Pennsylvania that usually breeds black and tans/reds? Any information is much appreciated.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sables and blacks are much more common in the working lines....there are black and tan working dogs, but normally, working line breeders are not overly color conscious.

Although not in PA, Marsha Seck (Traumwolfen) is breeding her black and tan Chita to Jagr v Wolfstraum this winter and should have black and tans....Chita has very good temperament and this should be a nice litter temperament wise.

Lee


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Rebel Yelle in CT have black and tans.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Art Shaw at Zahnburg has had b/t's as well. I've been to a seminar with one of those puppies. Great work ethic in all phases and gorgeous coloring.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Is Va an options?


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

We got our puppy from MistyRidge. If Joyce doesn't have the puppy you want she might be able to give you an idea of which breeder might.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I just realized that Misty Ridge IS working line, for some reason I thought she had GSL. I definitely plan on checking out Joyce's dogs sometime this winter. One thing that kind of confused me though is that one of their main breeding male's sire (Illiano vom Fichtenschlag) is also listed as siring puppies on another breeders site that has German Show lines. I'd also be interested in any good breeders in Virginia. I still haven't 100% made up my mind on working line or GSL but I'm leaning more towards working line. Thanks for all the info guys!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't see a single working line on Misty Ridge's website. Those all look like West German Show Lines.


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## d4lilbitz (Dec 30, 2013)

Can't recommend any breeders in MD, but I do like the dogs from Blackthorn Working German Shepherds. They are located in Barboursville, VA. She's worth taking a look at.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

> I don't see a single working line on Misty Ridge's website. Those all look like West German Show Lines.


I don't know enough to go back through their ancestry to know which lines they originate from. Without opening a debate between which lines are best I have one bit of advice.

Whomever you chose make sure you tell your breeder what lifestyle you plan for you and your dog. We told Joyce that we wanted a pup with enough spunk to enjoy sports but not so much that he would be a terror in the house. Our pup, nearly a year old now, is spot on. He loves his IPO classes, he goes hiking with us and as he matures is learning the rules of living in a house, a bit better every day. 

We have two working line pups in our IPO class that are nearly the same age as ours. One is crisp at following directions but he doesn't live the life of a cushy house dog. The other lives with two other dogs in the house and is more non nonchalant. Our dog is never going to be one of those whom draws gasps from the crowd for his quick snappy moves, but I blame that more on his getting spoiled at home than his bloodline.

Enjoy the hunt for your best dog and I know I look forward to seeing your future fur buddy.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My comment is not a debate on which lines are best. It's just a statement. I see only West German Show Lines and not working lines. The comment was only in reference to the OP's comment of "I just realized that Misty Ridge IS working line" when the dogs are plainly not.

An IPO/Sch title does not mean they are working line, if the OP is going by that.


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## d4lilbitz (Dec 30, 2013)

car2ner said:


> I don't know enough to go back through their ancestry to know which lines they originate from. Without opening a debate between which lines are best I have one bit of advice.
> 
> Whomever you chose make sure you tell your breeder what lifestyle you plan for you and your dog. We told Joyce that we wanted a pup with enough spunk to enjoy sports but not so much that he would be a terror in the house. Our pup, nearly a year old now, is spot on. He loves his IPO classes, he goes hiking with us and as he matures is learning the rules of living in a house, a bit better every day.
> 
> ...


The description of the two puppies you described isn't accurate at all. I don't think it's fair to down play the other two pups. The first puppy...isn't a kennel dog, but when the owner isn't home he's in a kennel outdoors. Otherwise he's in the house. He is a fantastic dog...great movement and pedigree, he's maturing very nicely. Good prey drive, very handler focus...The other pup is independent, dominant, and late to mature. He's is in NO WAY nonchalant in anything he does. He has nice drives, more defense, than prey. Not an ideal IPO dog for top competition because of this, BUT because he's trained in prey he's doing great. Perfect for club level and really learning the sport with. He's a challenge for sure, but a fun one. Neither dog is spoiled, yet raised differently and both are house dogs. Not trying to start a debate, but if we are going to describe each of the dogs, then it should be accurate done.

I do think that genetics, pedigree, and environment play a part in the overall dog...but there isn't just one factor that makes up a dog. 




Jax08 said:


> My comment is not a debate on which lines are best. It's just a statement. I see only West German Show Lines and not working lines. The comment was only in reference to the OP's comment of "I just realized that Misty Ridge IS working line" when the dogs are plainly not.
> 
> An IPO/Sch title does not mean they are working line, if the OP is going by that.


I do agree your statement. It's not downgrading the showline, but simply identifying the dog's history. Same with a working line. You look at a pedigree and the experts can quickly identify if the dog is WGSL, DDR, WGWL, ASL, etc. Can other lines work...absolutely and they do. The OP asked for WL breeders.


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## QballK (Nov 2, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Art Shaw at Zahnburg has had b/t's as well. I've been to a seminar with one of those puppies. Great work ethic in all phases and gorgeous coloring.


Make sure you tell him you want a pet "quality" dog. :hammer::rofl:
Otherwise you get a working machine. We've got Fridge von der Zahnburg (Troy) at our house. Not the easiest dog to live with but his drive is to die for. :doggieplayball:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

hmmm...well...Art's F and G litters had different sires and are different dogs.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

> The description of the two puppies you described isn't accurate at all. I don't think it's fair to down play the other two pups. The first puppy...isn't a kennel dog, but when the owner isn't home he's in a kennel outdoors. Otherwise he's in the house. He is a fantastic dog...great movement and pedigree, he's maturing very nicely. Good prey drive, very handler focus...The other pup is independent, dominant, and late to mature. He's is in NO WAY nonchalant in anything he does. He has nice drives, more defense, than prey. Not an ideal IPO dog for top competition because of this, BUT because he's trained in prey he's doing great. Perfect for club level and really learning the sport with. He's a challenge for sure, but a fun one. Neither dog is spoiled, yet raised differently and both are house dogs. Not trying to start a debate, but if we are going to describe each of the dogs, then it should be accurate done.
> 
> I do think that genetics, pedigree, and environment play a part in the overall dog...but there isn't just one factor that makes up a dog.


Not trying to down play the other pups at all. They are great dogs and they have good handlers. I am glad that you described them better than I did. 

Genetics do play a part, as well as environment. Perhaps you could steer Astrovan towards your breeder or the other. I don't know where he got his pup from but he is a great dog.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I did assume that Misty Ridge was Working line after seeing all the Schutzhund activities listed on the site, I'm learning so if I say something dumb please excuse my ignorance. I'm definitely looking for a dog that is more calm, affectionate and "pet" quality I guess you'd call it. The dog will live in the house so I don't need a super active working line dog. No protection training, competitions, or anything like that. I would like to do some tracking with the dog though so I'm not sure if a show line would do this well.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you like the dogs that Misty Ridge has then pursue that and go meet them. Ask her about their hunt drive. Von Ibso has working line. I train with him. I would trust him to steer you in the right direction though he won't have the color you are looking for.

Von Ibso | Working German Shepherds


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

a European show line will fit your needs fine....not generally as high drive as the working lines and not as resilient in advanced training...but for a family dog, you are probably going in the right direction. and if you want black and red, pretty much a given for showlines....

Lee


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

Does anyone have experience with Eichenluft, Johnson-haus, or Blackthorn? All three look good, I like that Eichenluft has an upcoming litter that is working line and show line. I'm checking out a few breeders near by just getting an idea of what kind of dog might suit me because honestly, I know my GSD but I don't have much experience with other GSD's so I don't know the first thing about real life temperament of a working vs. show line let alone all the different sub groups. I really like that working lines are bred for performance/utility and not just looks but I'm afraid a high drive, intense dog would not be best suited for me. Somewhere in the middle would be great. Thanks for all the replies


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Highly recommend Blackthorn.


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## Witz (Feb 28, 2011)

I have a Blackthorn GSD. I can also highly recommend the other 2 breeders. All 3 will assess your interests and needs and match you with the appropriate puppy.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Christine at Blackthorn is breeding a versatile dog without specializing in extreme sport types....She has titled quite a few dogs and of all you have mentioned, you might get more what you are looking for from her.

Lee


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Stay away from Eichenluft.

I highly recommend Blackthorn


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I met with Joyce at Misty Ridge (WGSL) and was very impressed with her dogs. She really has a professional operation and was extremely helpful. The only thing I didn't like was the prices are on the high end and she doesn't test for DM but still at the top of my breeder list. I still plan on checking out other breeders, definitely Blackthorn. From what I'm reading about the DM testing it isn't 100% accurate so I don't know if it's really a big deal or not if a breeder tests for it. What is everyone's opinion on this?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

All my breeding females are DM clear, Bengal, Kira and Panther all done via the DCR labs. Is it 100% accurate? The jury is still out on that - but the test is relatively cheap and quick and it is a tool that we all hope will help breed out the disease. 

Personally I would NOT buy a puppy who was not from at least ONE clear parent. It at least shows the breeder is concerned and aware and trying to breed the potentially healthiest litter that they can given the information available. Even in litters with 2 carriers as parents you will run the gamut of affected, carrier and clear - I know someone who bred untested dogs who were 6 and 8 at the time - and tested 3 of the resultant pups and got one pup of each variety - which proves both parents were carriers. The same female bred to a clear male had several pups test clear and he never tested the female, and assumed she was clear. 

Doing a breeding right now that the female is clear, and the male's test is "not back"....would rather know for sure, but adding to my contract that DM testing will be added to the criterion for the lifting of limited registration. The worst that any of my pups will have is a +/- or carrier status.

Lee


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