# Still Unsure About How Much to Feed!



## djm899 (Jan 23, 2014)

Hi all,
Ivy just turned 6 months old. She weighs about 58-60 lbs, is 25" tall, and about 27" long. She looks very skinny to me, ribs showing, VERY lean looking. She eats 3 cups 2x a day, and she is still starving after she finishes. If I give her a cup or so at lunch when I'm home, she gobbles that up, and still eats the 3 cups. 

I feed her Fromm Large Breed Puppy, which I understand is an excellent food. 

She gets a lot of exercise...she is in daycare while we are at work 4 days a week, and apparently she plays constantly all day. She's also been screened for worms numerous times, all negative. 

The other days she runs around with our other 3 dogs, although she does seems to get a lot of rest the days she is home. We also walk her every morning, but only for about 20 minutes.

She has huge paws still, and a very long tail (she is so beautiful!) but I am constantly doubting myself about letting her eat until she is full, instead of restricting. It doesn't make sense to me to restrict a skinny dog.

Any ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Fromm's is an excellent food.

Here are 3 thoughts to consider:

1. Maybe your pup needs a denser kibble containing more calories and a different composition because she is so active. If she doesn't have a sensitive gut (Orijen gives some dogs loose stool), you may want to try Orijen Large Puppy:
*INGREDIENTS*
_Boneless chicken*, chicken meal, chicken liver*, whole herring*, boneless turkey*, turkey meal, turkey liver*, whole eggs*, boneless walleye*, whole salmon*, chicken heart*, chicken cartilage*, herring meal, salmon meal, red lentils, green peas, green lentils, chicken liver oil, sun-cured alfalfa, yams*, pea fiber, chickpeas, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, cranberries*, blueberries*, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium. _I think you would feed less of this food than the Fromm's.

*Protein = 38% (Dry Matter Basis = 42%)
*Fat = 16% (Dry Matter Basis = 18%)
*456 kcals per cup
Find a store: Where to Buy | Orijen 

Fromms Large Puppy:
*Protein = 24% (Dry Matter Basis = 27%)
*Fat = 16% (Dry Matter Basis = 18%)
*389 kcals per cup
(Estimated Nutrient Content provided by Dog Food Advisor)

2. Could you feed a commercially made "Balanced" raw food for one of her three meals? Raw has natural protein and fat. 
Here are some products and where to find them.
*Bravo:* Discover Balance Raw Diet | Beef Frozen Raw Dog Food Diet - Bravo Pet Food Find a store: Find a Bravo Retailer - Bravo Pet Food 
*Northwest Naturals: *Beef Find a store: Store Locator
*Primal: *Complete Raw Diets for Pets: Canine Beef Formula Find a store: Primal Pet Foods: Store Locator 

3. She may not be assimilating her food properly and needs a Digestive Enzyme to help. Here are 2 great Human Grade products:
*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): Sunday-Sundae-12oz
*Digest All Plus:* (Digestive Enzyme/ProBiotic combo) Wholistic Digest All Plus? - Digestive Support - Canine

BTW, most GSD's go thru a skinny looking phase when they are growing.

Hope you find what will work for her!
Moms


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## djm899 (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks so much for your reply. I actually weighed her today and she is 56 lbs. I just checked on the website and looks like her height is unusually tall for her age and the fact that she is a female. Maybe she will just fill in eventually when she stops growing! I think part of it also is that her 3 yr old (? rescue) sister is an inch shorter and weighs 78.

Do you have an opinion about Stella and Chewy raw? I already have that for my allergic little poodle and she does very well on it.

And, strange question, but don't enzymes make them poop more? I know that's the case in humans!!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Stella & Chewy's wouldn't be my first pick, but that's just me! 
I use to recommend them a lot years ago, but then they decided to go main stream and add a "premix" of vitamins to their raw mixes.

If you are use to Stella's I'd say go ahead and try it on your girl.

Are you considering the Orijen? If so, wean her on to it VERY slowly, don't rush it. 

"And, strange question, but don't enzymes make them poop more? I know that's the case in humans!!" HA! LOL!!!:laugh: I have not heard that for either species! Maybe the dog or person was taking too high of a dose????

My dogs don't get a meal without them and they have normal stools. 

Moms


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Thin is Ok, not emaciated. All of my young GSDs have been on the thin side and filled out after 1-2 years. I feed Fromm too and I like that my puppy isn't getting fat. You don't want them to grow too fast. We can see and feel ribs, but the vet checked him at 3 months and said he's perfect.


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## Mesonoxian (Apr 5, 2012)

I did a lot of "kibble hopping" before I switched my dog to raw - Fromm was one of the better kibbles we tried, but I had to feed quite a bit of it to keep weight on her. Because of that, it became cost prohibitive to feed Fromm, so we tried another kibble.

Lena did best on Orijen, and I know many others who are thrilled with it, so if you're sticking with kibble I'd recommend it. Just know that some dogs tend towards loose stools on Orijen. (I have a personal theory about that)

(p.s. - Moms is a GREAT nutrition resource!! I've learned a lot from her)


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## djm899 (Jan 23, 2014)

What do you think of my theory that her height and length (25" & 27" respectively) are the issue? She hardly gained any weight this month but grew lots.

I think I'll stick with the Fromm...I'd like to get to a point where all the dogs (4 of them) are eventually on the same food! Right now, every one of them is on a different Fromm...Ivy on LBP, Luna on Weight Control, Mighty on 4 Star chicken, and Grace on raw and a little 4 Star Pork. Apparently the 4 Star can be used interchangeably. 

But I'll try the enzymes for sure! What dose?

Here's a couple of photos of her with her sister and her feline brother! Sorry the photos are not the best...trying to get her from the side.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

When dogs have trouble holding or gaining weight, I always ask the vet to run a fecal test as a precaution. Hooks and whips can sometimes do that. I'd rather rule them out, just to be sure.


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## djm899 (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks...we've done a fecal test numerous times...all negative.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Maybe it's just the way the picture was taken but she doesn't look bad to me. 

Her sister, on the other hand, can stand to loose a few! LOL  Have you ever considered researching and learning how to make your own raw meals? I have been able to completely control our dogs weights over the years within a pound or two of being perfect by feeding raw.
Just throwin this out there for consideration.....for me, the weight control dog foods have way to many carbs to be efficient.
Fromm's Weight Control: Turkey Liver, Chicken Meal, *Pearled Barley, Oatmeal, Dried Tomatoe Pumace, *Duck, Menhaden Fish Meal, *Brown Rice, White Rice, Millet*, Chicken, *Flaxseed,* *Pea Fiber, Potatoes*. 
Here are a few thoughts from WDJ (compiled):
"Dogs thrive on high-protein diets and find them more satisfying, while they have no nutritional requirement for carbohydrates. If you are feeding kibble or other dry food, look for a minimum of 25 percent protein (Fromm's =25%). *More is better: generally, the higher the protein, the lower the carbs*. *Diets to help your dog lose weight should be high in protein and low in carbs. *Fat, however, is also what satisfies the appetite best. A diet that is too low in fat will leave your dog feeling hungry all the time, making it harder for you to stick to the diet plan and potentially leading to food-stealing or even poop-eating. It’s better to feed a diet with moderate fat and reduce the portion size as needed rather than feeding a low-fat diet. Look for fat percentage around 12 to 16 percent (Fromm's has 10%). Some dogs have had success losing weight with reduced portions of even higher-fat foods that are also very high in protein, probably because these foods are quite low in carbs. Avoid foods with excessively high (more than 5 to 6 percent) (Fromm's has 7%) fiber, the indigestible part of carbohydrates. Increased fiber will not help your dog feel satisfied, and too much can interfere with nutrient absorption." Helping Your Dog Lose Weight - Whole Dog Journal Article 
Orjijen Adult (40 percent protein, 16 percent fat, 2.5 percent fiber).


Moisten your kibble with water for the Digestive Enzymes to stick. Both are different, so follow label directions.
*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): Sunday-Sundae-12oz
(The SS label has a different way of administering the product, which I find fantastic for a dog who has issues, but I just sprinkle it on and it works perfectly!). BTW I've had great success with the whole product line of Feed Sentials! 
*Digest All Plus:* (Digestive Enzyme/ProBiotic combo) Wholistic Digest All Plus? - Digestive Support - Canine

Good luck and keep us posted!
Moms


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

djm899 said:


> Do you have an opinion about *Stella and Chewy* raw? I already have that for my allergic little poodle and she does very well on it.


djm899....Please note:
*RECALL: Stella & Chewy's - Listeria* Stella & Chewy?s Voluntary Recall Notice | Stella & Chewy's Pet Food

On Thursday, December 10, Stella & Chewy’s was notified by the Michigan Department of Agriculture and Rural Development that it had issued a stop sale order on Stella’s Super Beef Dinner Morsels for Dogs 8.5 oz. frozen bags, lot #165-15, “Use by 6-25-2016”, during routine surveillance because it tested positive for Listeria monocytogenes.
Since learning this news, we have been working quickly to review the situation to find answers to the important questions on our customers’ minds. As a precautionary measure, we are voluntarily recalling selected products from Lot # 165-15, as listed below. 

Moms


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## djm899 (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks so much...good to know. Listeria is really bad.


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## BauerWhite (Mar 18, 2015)

I'm in a similar situation. 6 month old male puppy. He's been growing a lot recently. He's getting taller, and therefore heavier, but he's still really skinny. I can count 7ish ribs depending on his position. 

I started him on Orijen and he had occasional loose stools... I switched him to Fromm (the same type you're using) and they've all been solid since. I'm feeding him 2 cups, 3 times per day (6 cups total). I was feeding him 4.5 a while ago, but I upped to 6 when I thought he was getting too skinny. I think the bag recommend ~4.5 cups... so I feel that 6 cups should be enough since it's more than the recommend amount. 

I haven't weighed my dog in a while, but he's definitely getting heavier just because I have to lift him up every once in a while. He loves his food. When I tell him it's food time, he gets really excited and will eat the whole meal very quickly. I feel like he would eat as much as I feed him as he just attacks his food until it's all gone (and then he might lick his bowl for a while too).

I'm not really too concerned to be honest. I know that it's good to keep them pretty thin when they're young so as to not put too much strain on their hips. I have a feeling that he'll fill out as he gets older. His chest is already starting to fill out. It used to be pretty concave.

Also, my dog probably gets quite a bit less exercise than your dog. I walk/slow jog him for 45min - 1 hour per day (normally just the one walk). Our backyard is very small, so he doesn't get a chance to run around out there really. My wife and I both work from home, so he just with us around the house a lot. He still sleeps a lot, so he seems to be doing well with his one long walk per day.


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