# "Pet People"



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Can we stop using this term to describe people who don't work or show their dogs? 

I find it offensive when people who work their dogs or people that show their dogs call people who don't do either "pet people" and they say it as if we are beneath them. I am sure at some point in their lives they have owned or currently do own a "pet." Some people that work their dogs or show their dogs don't even consider those dogs as pets, they are strictly working dogs or show dogs and they don't live as cherished members of a family like most "pets" do. Not all of them are like this but some are. 

Maybe some of us "pet people" have dogs that aren't cut out for working or showing, maybe we have anxiety and can't handle being around large groups of people, maybe we can't physically do that type of training or showing, maybe we don't have that kind of money, maybe we have busy lives and can't do that stuff at the moment.

Also not everyone that only wants a "pet" goes through bybs. Although I do only own "pets" I still will buy puppies from breeders that either show or work their dogs. Health and temperment are important to me.

I train my dogs, I take them everywhere I can, when I am not at work I spend all of my time with them, I make sure they get Vet care, they are fed a high quality diet, they get exercise, they have tons of toys, they get spoiled and they are my life so please don't treat me as if I am beneath you because my dogs don't have titles. 

I am sure other "pet people" feel the same way. I just had to get that out.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Honestly I prefer the term "active companion" myself  

It's not the term itself, I've seen many times owners with actual working dogs refer to their dogs as pets, so it's not the wording so much as the attitude implied by many people that use it. It's become a derogatory term 

Also, just because the dog isn't titled doesn't mean that they aren't being trained and working in one or more venues. It may be that they are working towards titles or it's just for fun - I don't see those people as strictly "pet people" either. Unless the person outright comes out and says "I have absolutely no interest in exercising or training my dog" and the dog is literally just an fur rug expected to sit in a corner and keep quiet, than I’m not saying boo or implying they’re better or worse than me.

On the other hand when does a dog magically graduate out of being just a "pet" dog, when it gets a BH, RN, HIC, CGC, etc?

Sometimes the “pets” get more exercise and attention than dogs that are titled in multiple venues, most active owners are out at least once a day walking their dogs, spending time lounging on the couch, or playing fetch with their “pets” while there are dogs out there that live in kennels except for the few hours that are spent training. I don’t agree with people looking down on those people either, if the dog is happy it’s happy – who cares if it gets 30 minutes or 3 hours exercise a day. 

The “holier than thou” attitude is getting tiring and of course PC is even worse. I can’t even say “we’re all dog owners so get along” without offending multiple people because they don’t like the term “owners” and prefer “guardian” or something else.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I am a pet person, I don't mind the term. Most use it as a way to differentiate ways of looking at certain aspects of dog ownership, training etc.. no big deal. Those that use it to be condescending, are usually trying to make up for something lacking within themselves and have to have an ego boost by inflating their own self worth.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

The way I look at it, it is all in how you define the words. My dog gets training, has a couple minor titles, and we are still working toward the next one. She is very much my pet though, as are my cats. I love her and she lives in my house in my room, stays with me in my office while I work, and sleeps right next to my bed in her crate. She is a work in progress pet dog I guess. How do you define that?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think it depends on the way it's presented. Some people sneer it out in a condescending tone as if they've never owned a "pet" in their lives. I use the term "general public". In my mind, there are people that train their dogs, whether as "pet people" or sport, and there is the general public who are oblivious to their surrounding and the fact that their dog is not only off leash but in fact aggressive.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

It's jerky and condescending. I tend to think of pet people as the people who have infuriating little dogs with bad manners and little training. Even the cat has a job in my house...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

One of my friends posted on fb a nasty comment about the 'pet people' vs the ones that work dogs.... he dabbles in IPO when it is convenient, he is hardly committed to training on a weekly basis.
_
"It's wonderful you have a pet German Shepherd. He's probably a nice PET but do not confuse your PET with my WORKING DOG. We have HUNDREDS of hours of training in my dogs 2.5 years of life. Your dog and my dog are not the same. 

This is why I don't like telling people I have a German Shepherd. Everyone that has a PET GSD wants to think they have a protection dog. It's a pet,
no more, no less."_

I don't know why he felt the need to post that, it ticked me off because it was so condenscending. 
_ 
Here are the comments~
My comment: My GSD's are companions, I don't consider the one I train extensively to be a WORKING dog. He doesn't have a job, other than to be happy and healthy.
17 December 2013 at 08:00 · Like

OP response to me: But Jane, he (Karlo) is from a very strong pedigree. He isn't just a pet, he's a sport dog. He has been trained and has a purpose. To say that you have a GSD and compare them to my dog isn't a fair comparison. My dog is social, hangs out with the family, and goes places with me. That's doesn't mean he is the same as a Pet GSD. More to the fact that this person was trying to say their dog can do what mine can. People have no idea how much work we put into these guys!


comment: They will never understand - that is why the working and pet world is so divided....This is also why I am slowly getting out of pet training..
17 December 2013 at 09:44 · Like

My comment: I guess it doesn't matter to me....If someone asks what I do with my dogs, I just say competitive sport. If they want to know more, I explain. Even though Karlo is from *strong* lines, he's much easier to manage than my poorly bred GSD's/more stable too.


comment from someone who does have actual working SAR dogs: They all mean the same to the owners no matter what they do. The pet owners heart breaks just as hard as mine does when the time comes to put them down. _


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm not opposed to the term either. It's 'pet parent' that I don't like, lol. But most dogs that are worked are also pets in their down time. It does mean a different lifestyle, but it doesn't mean it's a lesser life. A pet's life could even be better, and more challenging, depending on the circumstances. I think when people get upset and use the term as an insult, it's because they don't want to have the breed watered down to the point that particular traits are bred out so that they can be something they were never meant to be. Or when people can't appreciate them as they are.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

too old to let stuff like this bother me.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That's terrible Jane. It's sheer snobbery.

My dogs are pets. First and foremost, my dogs are pets. I don't care what kind of training and time I put into them. Seger has a great pedigree and is a blast to train. So looking forward to the training journey with him. BUT...At the end of the day, my dogs lay in at my feet and watch TV with me. They are pets that do sport.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't like people using the term that they have working dogs when they are not really in a working career. Just because you do competitions or sport, it isn't the same as a dog that puts their life on the line in an actual job. Or a service dog that has to be on all the time. 
All dogs should be considered companions/partners, IMO...not 'pets' Cats are pets! lol


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Ha, cats are pets?! My cat acts like it's her name on the deed to the house! LOL!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I don't like people using the term that they have working dogs when they are not really in a working career. Just because you do competitions or sport, it isn't the same as a dog that puts their life on the line in an actual job. Or a service dog that has to be on all the time.


I feel exactly the same way. I would love to have a decal for my car to say there are dogs on board but I have two choices

Show Dogs - which they are not
Working Dogs - which they are not in any way. They are working LINE dogs.

I just want a decal that says "Sport Dogs on Board"


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Blanketback said:


> Ha, cats are pets?! My cat acts like it's her name on the deed to the house! LOL!


Thats why you have to keep telling them they are "just a pet"!:laugh:


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Good point! Umm, will I lose an eye?


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

eh - I have seen some members here use the term and it just sounds silly - a buzz word - consider the source. Then have seen it used by other members and did not at all feel it was described as a put down and their point was well made.

Rusty is my partner (how about that ) - a good buddy. We have an outstanding bond. I ask a lot of him sometimes and he shows up eagerly for whatever task. We are not a working home, although nothing wrong with that.

We are very active with him but more importantly allow him to be a dog. It's a good partnership.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> Good point! Umm, will I lose an eye?


Check your bed before lying down to sleep tonight


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Thats why you have to keep telling them they are "just a pet"!:laugh:


 :rofl: this one needs to be moved to misinformation Thursday! 


To the OP, I'm a pet home and proud of it. I don't find the term offensive.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

My dog is just a pet... We don't do sports, we don't show, we don't work, we like to watch everyone else do all of that  And that's fine! Maybe someday we will, maybe not, until then I am proud to be a pet person


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I have pets my gsd is not a pet. If it couldnt fulfill the purpose for which it was purchased it would not be here. Doesnt mean we cant have fun..but still not a pet.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I have pets my gsd is not a pet. If it couldnt fulfill the purpose for which it was purchased it would not be here. Doesnt mean we cant have fun..but still not a pet.


so "IT" is a piece of equipment then?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I did say _most_ working homes, not _all_. I agree with you, except my standards and requirements are far lower that yours. But I have a pet GSD for a reason.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Muh dawgs.

That's what they are. Bed warmers and intruder alarms that just happen to be very very important to me. Well mannered(uhm, Cable is, Allie is a work in progress) with no defined jobs except to be dogs. I like dogs, like em a lot, so I let them be. I enjoy watching them play and explore their world, I enjoy playing with them too.

I also like the scientific side of ownership. Figuring out how to feed the best possible diet on the cheap. Learning about dog body language and social interaction is a hobby of mine. Strangely enough behavior modification isn't something that really blows my skirt up though.

Dogs make my life more interesting and that is something I chase. It's never dull when the dogs are around, I can find something to do. So I guess I'd fall into that segment of a mere "pet owner" rather than fancier or sport person. I'm okay with that. My dogs are happy and healthy, so...yeah.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

onyx'girl said:


> _OP response to me: But Jane, he (Karlo) is from a very strong pedigree. He isn't just a pet, he's a sport dog. _


:rofl: too bad Chris didn't catch that one!


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I have pets my gsd is not a pet. If it couldnt fulfill the purpose for which it was purchased it would not be here. Doesnt mean we cant have fun..but still not a pet.


I feel the same way. 





onyx'girl said:


> so "IT" is a piece of equipment then?


No, my GSD's are more like team members. If they can't pull their weight on the team then they get cut. It doesn't mean I don't love them.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Blanketback said:


> Ha, cats are pets?!


My cat has a job. She wouldn't live here if she wasn't a fine exterminator of small rodents, flies, spiders and those creepy fuzzy centipedes that come in my basement after a rainstorm!


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

People come up with the craziest labels, phrases, descriptions and categories to massage their egos. Yes, I understand pride and all that comes with it but the idea that someone would feel diminished, intimidated or lesser of a pet owner based on the comments of others seems a bit silly and more so, probably suggests a bit of insecurity. I fail to see how one's "pet" regardless of it's status would make one feel any different than they should feel....If one chooses to take their dog to the highest level possible while another opts not to....the common thread should be a successful completion of the intended task...whatever that was from the outset.....perhaps that might change along the journey.

There are those that do and there are those that choose not to "do". It's a personal preference not a measure of the dog but an indicator of the owner's desires....hopefully the shared human trait found in all quests regarding dogs ( regardless of accomplishments ) is passion for excellence whatever the criterion might be.

SuperG


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I hope I never think that way...guess I am ok with being just a pet home I didn't start out that way-lol


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

mycobraracr said:


> I feel the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so what do you do with the ones that get cut? Rehome? Or do you keep them because you love them? Then what would they be called?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I can care less about labels, there are more serious things to worry about in this world. My dogs are my dogs, my pets. I work with them. If you call them pet-dogs what does the term pet-people mean technically? Answer: people, kept as pets. So yes, cats have pet-people


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SuperG said:


> People come up with the craziest labels, phrases, descriptions and categories to massage their egos.


People need things tied up in a little box with a pretty bow. It's just our society.


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

I don't mind being called a pet home as long as there's no insult behind it... the name doesn't mean anything, and it doesn't actually define anything. Someone who has a pit bull chained to a tree outside 24-7 is probably considered a "pet home" too but my dog's life is night and day different; unless we are going to have a bunch of different distinctions for every type of sport, competition, and hobby hiker then its all just personal interpretation. Who's to say what a "job" is anyways?


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

I was flat out told that if I wasn't willing to "cut my losses" and return or rehome Huxley when we realized I was not going to be able to compete with him that I was "not really a competition person." 

I don't think I am what would constitute the average pet home, but ultimately? By that parameter? I am a pet person. I'm fine with that. 

I do lots of competition type activities with my 2 adult dogs and I will be training my very first IPO dog in my puppy. I don't believe she will "wash out" but if she did? She is my dog and here she stays. I am ultimately a pet person.

But I also understand people who compete at high levels who "wash" a dog and rehome it. (as long as it's done responsibly) I would think in the really high level the people are much better at picking a competition dog and wouldn't have to do it all that often, though.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

I'm a pet home. I have a pet. My dog is my pet. We happen to also do Schutzhund but that's not why I purchased a GSD. If he wasn't cut out for it I would still keep him and find something for us to do. That's the difference between a pet home and a working home IMO. 

Buying a dog for the purpose of working in avenue XYZ with the understanding that with all the love in the world the dog will be rehomed if he can't fulfill that specific requirement for which he was raised. That's a working home IMO. Absolutely nothing wrong with that IMO since all our resources are limited and that dog will be rehomed to a "pet home". as long as the rehoming is done responsibly.

With all that said, can we please stop being so sensitive? "Pet home" is not offensive unless the person uses it in an offensive context. These microaggressions are obvious to the discerning ear. I'll keep using "pet homes" and "working homes" because it's a slippery slope of politically correctness that I am unwilling to travel.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Someone should tell David Winners he's doing it wrong then, since clearly Fama means more to him than just a team member who no longer can cut it.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

ayoitzrimz said:


> I'm a pet home. I have a pet. My dog is my pet. We happen to also do Schutzhund but that's not why I purchased a GSD. If he wasn't cut out for it I would still keep him and find something for us to do. That's the difference between a pet home and a working home IMO.
> 
> *Buying a dog for the purpose of working in avenue XYZ with the understanding that with all the love in the world the dog will be rehomed if he can't fulfill that specific requirement for which he was raised. That's a working home IMO. Absolutely nothing wrong with that IMO since all our resources are limited and that dog will be rehomed to a "pet home". as long as the rehoming is done responsibly.*
> 
> With all that said, can we please stop being so sensitive? "Pet home" is not offensive unless the person uses it in an offensive context. These microaggressions are obvious to the discerning ear. I'll keep using "pet homes" and "working homes" because it's a slippery slope of politically correctness that I am unwilling to travel.



I agree with this train of thought, sort of. If working is defined as Onyx Girl defined it. My concern is placing the dog in another home-- I'm so picky.


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## K9POPPY (Mar 6, 2014)

Labeling a dog is so lame- just as labeling people is. Those that feel they have to label a canine as a "PET" are using this label only to feel superior to others. I usually avoid these people- Bob


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Pet is the traditional definition. Partner is more PC, but that's typically used to define a SO. My GSD is actually my companion animal, but that has a PC ring to it as well. Oh heck, what to call them so that everyone's happy? Lol, _you can't please everyone_...


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ayoitzrimz said:


> With all that said, can we please stop being so sensitive? "Pet home" is not offensive unless the person uses it in an offensive context. These microaggressions are obvious to the discerning ear. I'll keep using "pet homes" and "working homes" because it's a slippery slope of politically correctness that I am unwilling to travel.


The reason I started this thread is because some members do say it in a rude, holier than thou way and act as if they are better dog owners for working/titling/showing their dogs or they feel they have better dogs because they compete in sports, work or are entered in dog shows.

Not all members are like that BUT some are!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

RocketDog said:


> Someone should tell David Winners he's doing it wrong then, since clearly Fama means more to him than just a team member who no longer can cut it.


If I had a dog that did for me what she did for him I dare say it wouldnt go anywhere when it retired.

If I buy a dog and it cant do what it needs to, it gets returned/rehomed/sold. Dont have room for more pets.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

RocketDog said:


> Someone should tell David Winners he's doing it wrong then, since clearly Fama means more to him than just a team member who no longer can cut it.


Not to mention police K9's who when they retire often are adopted by the same officers who spent many years with them by their side.

It's called a "partnership" for a reason and the bonds forged in those circumstances can be absolutely unbreakable. The dog relies on the human as much as the human relies on the dog


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> The reason I started this thread is because some members do say it in a rude, holier than thou way and act as if they are better dog owners for working/titling/showing their dogs or they feel they have better dogs because they compete in sports, work or are entered in dog shows.
> 
> Not all members are like that BUT some are!



Yes, they are. But consider the source. Some of them are just talking out of their arse.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

RocketDog said:


> Yes, they are. But consider the source. Some of them are just talking out of their arse.


Very, very true!


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Nigel said:


> Most use it as a way to differentiate ways of looking at certain aspects of dog ownership, training etc.. no big deal. Those that use it to be condescending, are usually trying to make up for something lacking within themselves and have to have an ego boost by inflating their own self worth.


I agree with this.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> The reason I started this thread is because some members do say it in a rude, holier than thou way and act as if they are better dog owners for working/titling/showing their dogs or they feel they have better dogs because they compete in sports, work or are entered in dog shows.
> 
> Not all members are like that BUT some are!


It's true, but if the government came and outlawed the term "pet people" these people would find another way to put others down. So tell those people to piss off and live life happily


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

huntergreen said:


> too old to let stuff like this bother me.


ditto this


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I agree, lol. Being too sensitive to what is so obviously blatant hostility isn't a good thing. Maybe I'm just used to dealing with it IRL, but it's a great trait to have and comes in very handy when people are trying to rile you up and you can smile back at them instead.


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## Jakesworld (Mar 4, 2014)

Sticks n stones. Is it really important the labels some people use? Personally, right now, I must be a "pet person" because Jake can't do squat. Right now, at 8 months we are working on just really solid obedience training and manners. ( he's a teenage boy ya know! Ha ha) anyway, I've thought seriously about SAR, but as it is right now, at this moment, I love just hanging out with him and exploring places, teaching him, taking care of him and just watching him be goofy. So, right now, call me a "pet person". I just call us ..."family"


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

LaRen616 said:


> The reason I started this thread is because some members do say it in a rude, holier than thou way and act as if they are better dog owners for working/titling/showing their dogs or they feel they have better dogs because they compete in sports, work or are entered in dog shows.
> 
> Not all members are like that BUT some are!


It's impossible to answer your post without generalizing, so keep that in mind with my response.

I don't think it's that at all, so much as frustration that the 'pet people' sometimes don't 'get it' when they see a high drive dog being worked, or being corrected more strongly when they are in drive. They guffaw and think the dog is being abused and sometimes make judgment without understanding. It is a two way street. 

Most people who work their dogs started out as 'pet owners' once upon a time, and they understand that mentality, because they were there themselves. In other words, the dog was just a part of the family, some training went into it, but not really too much. And that is perfectly ok.

Sometimes working homes *are* better dog owners. They treat dogs like dogs. They continue to train, the dog is given a job and feel satisfied mentally and physically.

Not that people who aren't working their dogs can't be good owners, just based on that alone, but I think for people who work their dogs in some capacity (and that may just mean more training classes, doing agility for fun etc), they continue to train and learn with their dog. They end up with a better trained pet, they become a better handler and know their animal on a deeper level. They surround themselves with people who have years of experience and knowledge and they start to pick up on that. It's got nothing to do with how much a person might love their pet, or provide a happy home.

Now, I am a novice handler, and my dog is a pet/companion animal. She will never be rehomed. I do work her though, and I realize now that there is a very different relationship with people who work their dogs in some way. It doesn't mean they love them more, but there's sometimes a level of frustration when you see someone babying a dog, or misreading body language, mishandling, letting their dog be rude, or making assumptions about you and your dog etc. 

I know when I've made reference to 'pet people' it's been out of frustration of someone not understanding the training issues that come along with a strong breed like a GSD. The trainers from my regular pet obedience classes were not nearly as successful and able to engage my dog as when I took her to schutzhund training. 

And I am a pet person, 100%, but I also work my dog. I have a friend who wants to be a behaviourist, but they have not handled a strong/hard dog like a GSD. I can't help it, but I have a hard time respecting someone who doesn't understand what working with a dog like that is actually like and is making judgments about how people are correcting too hard etc. I think they'd understand if they had to work with a stronger breed who was fully in drive, but they haven't.

So I guess what I'm saying is, there's nothing inherently wrong with being a pet owner, but I think sometimes pet owners can be lazy dog owners. I wish everyone who owned a dog would get out and do some sort of sport with their dog. Even just for fun, it doesn't have to be competitive. You'll have a healthier pet, and a deeper bond with them.

So I guess in my mind the pet people are the people who really have low expectations form their dogs, and it shows in their behavior and attitudes. I don't consider a working pet home, as a 'pet home'.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I can say that I hate being labeled as much as the next guy.. and most of the time I try not to let it bother me but there are things that do get under my skin.. that is one of them. Titan is my PET first. We figured out he would be amazing at SAR and started toward that when he was a year old. Then recently we are wondering if it's right for us.. it's right for him but what if it's not right for me so we are taking a break right now.. leaving him as "just a pet."

Like most on here at least, I train, he's well behaved, we've had issues and worked through them. He is an amazing dog and would be one of the best working dogs if I had the lifestyle for it. But I don't right now.. people (not jsut owners) put working dogs on this high pedistal.. which is AMAZING.. and the abilities of those dogs are beyond what I can imagine. Most handlers aren't buttheads about it... but then there are the ones that think every dog is beneath them unless they contribute to society.. but it's also not just that.. there's a stigma with society in general that don't see great worth in a "pet." 

Every time we are in a store or out and about, first question is always "Is he a working dog?" or "what's he in training for??" When I could say SAR it was always "OMG that's so awesome, thank you for doing that" blah blah blah all this excitement and explaination. The minute I took a break and someone asked I said "He's not training for anything at the moment" all the responses are disappointed looks, and "oh, well he's pretty.." then ends converstation. It doesn't bother me to the point of letting it affect me, it is just annoying and something that society has been taught to think.

and based on another post above, that begs the question.. what is actually considered a "working dog." I make Titan work for everything.. we do our own OB runs in the yard and I want to start agility.. for fun.. so what does that mean? He's still a pet in my eyes.. jsut a well trained fun to train pet.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Well I don't give a crap what anyone thinks of my dog, except what I think. And I think he's amazing because last night I successfully called him off a rabbit, lol! Yay for him! Yay for all our pets here!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Blanketback said:


> Well I don't give a crap what anyone thinks of my dog, except what I think. And I think he's amazing because last night I successfully called him off a rabbit, lol! Yay for him! Yay for all our pets here!


HA! Yay! That is an awesome accomplishment


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## Jakesworld (Mar 4, 2014)

Hey BLANKETBACK, kudos to you!! I've been able to call Jake off the chickens, but a rabbit? Not gonna happen, yet. He goes bananas over our pet bunnies. 

And wyoung2153, never thought about it til you mentioned it, but I took my boy to town the other day. I have to go to town so I can expose him to everyday things, like sidewalks & curbs, store windows and fire hydrants. Anyway, I stopped to talk to a older lady, probably 70ish. She had a GSD in her car. She commented on Jake, and our training , and asked "what are you training him for?" Lol, just remembered that!


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

My dogs, even though they may work on my farm and do sport, will always be pets. But.. that was my intention. Family dog first, working dog second. 

That being said, I do understand where mycobraracr comes from. I am very competitive in the equestrian sport world, I do eventing. I bought a horse specifically for an eventing/show jumping prospect. I love her dearly, but if she can't cut it for what I need her to do, she will be rehomed. I can't afford the cost to keep her as a pet, and frankly she would deserve to be in a home where she would be able to be one. It doesn't mean I don't love her, or view her as equipment. I'm sure there are many people who keep horses solely as pets who wouldn't be able to wrap their heads around that. 

I had a girl I used to ride with give me crap for buying a dog from a breeder. She doesn't understand the concept of dogs as more than just pets. She said, "why would you buy a dog from a breeder when there are thousands in rescue?" I asked her why she would spend $75,000 on a horse when there were thousands in rescue. Her response was that she was looking for a competitive show horse for a specific purpose. And then it dawned on her.... that maybe the dog world is like that too. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with dogs in competitive sport homes being seen as a show horse would, or as a pet, or anything in between.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> The reason I started this thread is because some members do say it in a rude, holier than thou way and act as if they are better dog owners for working/titling/showing their dogs or they feel they have better dogs because they compete in sports, work or are entered in dog shows.
> 
> Not all members are like that BUT some are!


 
I find it very sad that there are members on this forum who fail to recognize that we *all* have the same breed. We all share the same love and interest in this breed. We all want what's best for the breed. That is why we became members of this forum. 

Yet, some members still feel the need to draw a line in the sand and make it clear that those who choose not to compete with their dogs can never be as good an owner as those who do compete. And the dogs that don't compete will never be as good of a dog as those that do. 

You have a love for the breed. You have a love for the sport. What a blessing it is to be able to do both. But you aren't any better and your dog isn't any better than any body elses.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Lilie said:


> You have a love for the breed. You have a love for the sport. What a blessing it is to be able to do both. But you aren't any better and your dog isn't any better than any body elses.


:thumbup:

Luckily, it seems to only be a few specific bad apples.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

When I use the term "pet people", I tend to put it in quotes, because it's just a term that people use to describe the general public, ie, people that own pets but aren't pet professionals or experts, or they're simply not obsessed with them like most of us are.  

I didn't read all the comments, but I can see how it could be used as a demeaning term, or how it could be perceived as such. But I guess you'd need a solid dictionary meaning for "pet people" before you let yourself feel too strongly either way. 

I'm a "pet person" in the sense that I haven't worked or titled any dogs lately, and all my own animals are pets. I'm also a professional groomer, so in that sense I'm not a "pet person". It's all in the meaning of the term, which is nebulous and open to interpretation.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Mine are pets first. I do stuff like therapy work, agility, obedience and rally, but that is just stuff I do with them. They are my pets. If they fail at something they are still my pets. They are not disposable, they aren't robots, they are living breathing animals. I could never rehome a dog that didn't fit what I wanted out of them, the damage it could do to the dog would bother me. It's offensive when people think that their dogs are better then anyone else's. All I care about is that they are healthy and well adjusted. If they aren't then I love them anyway. I don't care that they don't bite a sleeve, I choose for them not to. No sport holds more value then the dog itself. My dogs are my companions and having or not having titles or working in any sport won't ever change that .


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lilie said:


> I find it very sad that there are members on this forum who fail to recognize that we *all* have the same breed. We all share the same love and interest in this breed. We all want what's best for the breed. That is why we became members of this forum.
> 
> Yet, some members still feel the need to draw a line in the sand and make it clear that those who choose not to compete with their dogs can never be as good an owner as those who do compete. And the dogs that don't compete will never be as good of a dog as those that do.
> 
> You have a love for the breed. You have a love for the sport. What a blessing it is to be able to do both. But you aren't any better and your dog isn't any better than any body elses.


:thumbup:


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

*What a blessing it is to be able to do both. But you aren't any better and your dog isn't any better than any body elses.*

truth


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

I am really afraid of pet people. One of them screamed at me in front of Pet Supplies Plus because my dogs barked at her when she was sneaking around my car and peering inside!


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Now every time I go to Pet Supplies Plus I hear voices "I see pet people"


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Packen said:


> Now every time I go to Pet Supplies Plus I hear voices "I see pet people"


Can't escape it packen. Pet people are everywhere and they are watching you.


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## Jakesworld (Mar 4, 2014)

Well said Lilie. Well said. 

I've owned GSDs for 26 or so years. I understand the breed, the drives, the behavior. My current boy, Jake, is well bred, from extraordinary lines and highly titled dogs. He has exceptional drives and a brain to boot. I know what I've got, with or without titles. Yes he would excel at schutzhund. But he can be a great dog without competitions. In other areas. He's still an outstanding German Shepherd Dog.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

When I think of pet people I think of someone who treats their dog like it's their first born child and are sometimes irrational towards their dogs. To me sport people are too rational and treat their dogs like a player on a sports team and if it doesn't perform it can be cut, it's business and nothing personal. 

If I wanted training advice I'd put more weight in a sport person over a pet person. Sport people care about results first and foremost and I feel pet people put the dogs feelings first.


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## SusiQ (Jul 27, 2007)

Every creature in my house is a member of the family - my dogs are a blessing to me and I can only hope that I have been a blessing to them.


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## DobbyDad (Jan 28, 2014)

Are you telling me this isn't a thread about having people as pets?


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## Jakesworld (Mar 4, 2014)

boomer11 said:


> When I think of pet people I think of someone who treats their dog like it's their first born child and are sometimes irrational towards their dogs. To me sport people are too rational and treat their dogs like a player on a sports team and if it doesn't perform it can be cut, it's business and nothing personal.
> 
> If I wanted training advice I'd put more weight in a sport person over a pet person. Sport people care about results first and foremost and I feel pet people put the dogs feelings first.


Have to agree with you there


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Packen said:


> I am really afraid of pet people. One of them screamed at me in front of Pet Supplies Plus because my dogs barked at her when she was sneaking around my car and peering inside!


I would not want to be on the receiving end of Gnash giving me the stink eye!

As my very southern grandpa would say "that will learn ya". lol


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## Jakesworld (Mar 4, 2014)

DobbyDad said:


> Are you telling me this isn't a thread about having people as pets?


Ya know that's what I thought it was at first too

"A person can never fully understand love, 
Until they are owned by a dog"


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## Serbrider (Jan 30, 2014)

What about those of us who are only just starting to get into the world of working dogs? Us young folks? I'm 21 years old. I'm a full time student in college, and my parents were working missionaries most of my life. I did not have any opportunities to have more than just one dog, and I couldn't do anything other than keep her as a pet and try to train her myself. There were no opportunities for me to pursue a working career. So, because I spent my time studying and researching and now am trying to pursue something simple (Therapy dog work) with my new gsd MIX, I am somehow beneath those who can afford to get a dog from good working lines, and then spend hours upon hours and thousands of dollars to train them into a working dog?

It's so elitist and unfair to expect everyone to be able to afford top notch trainers and have the time to do the work, own the best quality dog, etc... and if you don't, you are just a "pet person". I mean, great for them, I think a lot of us wish we could do that. But not all of us are there yet.



Honestly though... I don't care.  I love my dogs, they are my "pets", and I do hope to eventually do some real hardcore working dog stuff, either with GSDs or with some other breed (like, I'd love a titled schutzhund/IPO Caucasian Ovcharka... would LOVE it... so so much...  ). But I'm not at the point in my life yet where I can afford the training necessary, have the time to put in (working full time and going to school full time... yeah....), or afford the dogs required.

I will get there... but I'm not there yet. So... in the meantime, I am a "pet person".


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> Someone should tell David Winners he's doing it wrong then, since clearly Fama means more to him than just a team member who no longer can cut it.


There is a big difference between a dog that retires do to age or injury and a dog that washes out. What do you think the wash out rate is for these programs? Both human and K9. What do you think happens to those dogs? Or do we just not want to think about it? 



onyx'girl said:


> so what do you do with the ones that get cut? Rehome? Or do you keep them because you love them? Then what would they be called?


For me, situation dictates. No two situations are the same. I rehomed Mina to my Sister with the stipulation that if it doesn't work out she comes back to me. If she came back, she would not be rhomed again as I don't feel it's fair to her to bounce around. Heidi, will be retiring sooner than later and will not be going anywhere. She's with us for life! So it all depends.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Hans is a pet. 

I am a person. 

I don't see where this is insulting. :shrug:


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

mycobraracr said:


> There is a big difference between a dog that retires do to age or injury and a dog that washes out. What do you think the wash out rate is for these programs? Both human and K9. What do you think happens to those dogs? Or do we just not want to think about it?


Random example, friend of mine raises puppies for Fidelco. She's got 9 or 10 dogs right now because if they wash out on being a guide (I'd imagine that work has a much higher wash out rate than even a K9), she takes her puppies back. If she can't find them a suitable working home, they stay with her their life. She trains them for SAR.


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## Jakesworld (Mar 4, 2014)

Serbrider said:


> What about those of us who are only just starting to get into the world of working dogs? Us young folks? I'm 21 years old. I'm a full time student in college, and my parents were working missionaries most of my life. I did not have any opportunities to have more than just one dog, and I couldn't do anything other than keep her as a pet and try to train her myself. There were no opportunities for me to pursue a working career. So, because I spent my time studying and researching and now am trying to pursue something simple (Therapy dog work) with my new gsd MIX, I am somehow beneath those who can afford to get a dog from good working lines, and then spend hours upon hours and thousands of dollars to train them into a working dog?
> 
> It's so elitist and unfair to expect everyone to be able to afford top notch trainers and have the time to do the work, own the best quality dog, etc... and if you don't, you are just a "pet person". I mean, great for them, I think a lot of us wish we could do that. But not all of us are there yet.
> 
> ...


You're not "beneath" anyone, IMO. Although some may disagree. You're young and starting out. I think pursuing therapy dog work is to be commended. And hopefully the outcome of whatever you do will be more gratifying knowing your accomplishment are "yours."


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## Melissa98409 (Jun 17, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Mine are pets first. I do stuff like therapy work, agility, obedience and rally, but that is just stuff I do with them. They are my pets. If they fail at something they are still my pets. They are not disposable, they aren't robots, they are living breathing animals. I could never rehome a dog that didn't fit what I wanted out of them, the damage it could do to the dog would bother me. It's offensive when people think that their dogs are better then anyone else's. All I care about is that they are healthy and well adjusted. If they aren't then I love them anyway. I don't care that they don't bite a sleeve, I choose for them not to. No sport holds more value then the dog itself. My dogs are my companions and having or not having titles or working in any sport won't ever change that .


Couldn't have said it better myself. I completely agree.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> One of my friends posted on fb a nasty comment about the 'pet people' vs the ones that work dogs.... he dabbles in IPO when it is convenient, he is hardly committed to training on a weekly basis.
> _
> "It's wonderful you have a pet German Shepherd. He's probably a nice PET but do not confuse your PET with my WORKING DOG. We have HUNDREDS of hours of training in my dogs 2.5 years of life. Your dog and my dog are not the same.
> _


He dabbles, but boasts about having a "WORKING DOG."

Well, good for him! LOL! Does he also own a red sports car?


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

SunCzarina said:


> Random example, friend of mine raises puppies for Fidelco. She's got 9 or 10 dogs right now because if they wash out on being a guide* (I'd imagine that work has a much higher wash out rate than even a K9),* she takes her puppies back. If she can't find them a suitable working home, they stay with her their life. She trains them for *SAR*.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Serbrider said:


> So, because I spent my time studying and researching and now am trying to pursue something simple (Therapy dog work) with my new gsd MIX, I am somehow beneath those who can afford to get a dog from good working lines, and then spend hours upon hours and thousands of dollars to train them into a working dog?


No. Because you made a committment to yourself and your dog to do your best for your dog, you are already far above most folks who think because they reached deep into their wallet they have done all that is needed to be done.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Blanketback said:


> Well I don't give a crap what anyone thinks of my dog, except what I think. And I think he's amazing because last night I successfully called him off a rabbit, lol! Yay for him! Yay for all our pets here!


Aww rabbits! Yep I trained my guys to chase rabbits to the North and not South!

We have lots of free space out here and they had never seen a rabbit,moved here from the city. Rabbits would try and outrun my Boxer on the straights but she was always right on their heels, then they would break into the brush and back on the trail and lose her every time! She never figured that one out! 

Anyway we were in the desert about 1 mile from the highway to the South. One time the rabbit took off the towards the highway. A mile goes by pretty fast at Boxer speed, the rabbit and my Boxer were gone! I guess at some point the rabbit lost her and she came back to the car, scared the crap out of me. From that point on, if the rabbit broke North towards the mountains no problem but if it broke South towards the Hwy/South 'No Chase" problem solved..just a "pet owner" here also.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Serbrider said:


> What about those of us who are only just starting to get into the world of working dogs? Us young folks? I'm 21 years old. I'm a full time student in college, and my parents were working missionaries most of my life. I did not have any opportunities to have more than just one dog, and I couldn't do anything other than keep her as a pet and try to train her myself. There were no opportunities for me to pursue a working career. So, because I spent my time studying and researching and now am trying to pursue something simple (Therapy dog work) with my new gsd MIX, I am somehow beneath those who can afford to get a dog from good working lines, and then spend hours upon hours and thousands of dollars to train them into a working dog?
> 
> It's so elitist and unfair to expect everyone to be able to afford top notch trainers and have the time to do the work, own the best quality dog, etc... and if you don't, you are just a "pet person". I mean, great for them, I think a lot of us wish we could do that. But not all of us are there yet.
> 
> ...


 
There is nothing wrong with anything your doing. I've been doing it for years and couldn't be happier. Therapy work is one of the more rewarding things you can do with your dog and that is nothing to be ashamed of. Good for you and your dog


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## Cara Fusinato (May 29, 2011)

Thanks to the OP -- this really reminds me of perspective. If one excludes abusive homes and puppy mill-type breeders, there are those who have animals that are allowed to exsist on the property fairly comfortably and happily, animals who are included in family activities and outtings, animals for whom activities and training are actively pursued as fun and education for all, animals who are involved in competitions as partners until they retire due to age, injury, or disinclination, and then animals who are disposible equipment. Hearing some of the posts sure reminds me where I am on the spectrum with my GSD & sheltie. I am also sorry for those on both ends of the spectrum who truly miss out on the heart of a dog, because a dog's heart is one of the very best things ever created.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Sunflowers said:


> He dabbles, but boasts about having a "WORKING DOG."
> 
> Well, good for him! LOL! Does he also own a red sports car?


 you pegged him  silver BMW..... he also has a "K9 UNIT" harness for his dog. That was another post I should have stayed out of. I do like him, but some of his condenscending posts are abrassive.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I'm probably guilty of this. I don't see pet-people as being demeaning. It is just people who get a dog without a specific purpose in mind for them, like police work, conformation showing, performance, sport, service, breeding, etc.

It is, I suppose easier than saying people who have dogs that are not sport, show, breeding, or working dogs. Breeders look for pet homes for the pet-quality dogs in their litter. Pet quality suggests less than whatever else, but a great breeder once told me, that a successful litter is one with one show quality pup. Pet quality from and awesome breeder is going to get you a much better "pet" than pick puppy will get you from a ton of other breeders. 

But you want pet-homes, for the dogs that aren't going to show homes or working homes. I am sure working breeders have pups that they look for pet homes for as well. It is not demeaning, it just means that this pup has different qualities than this other pup that _needs _a working home. It means it has different qualities than a pup that you think would thrive in a specific atmosphere, and may be trouble for a less active atmosphere.

Except with a few working venues, the majority of dogs are pets. Schutzhund dogs are pets. Obedience dogs are pets first. Even breeding dogs are pets. But people who have dogs for specific purposes may look at some things differently than people who have dogs mainly as pets. 

Pet people can go to shows and get titles on their dogs, but they are not necessarily getting the titles to determine whether their dogs are breed-worthy, so their focus on the show may be for a totally different purpose, and that is fine. They are still pet people. It is still a pet-home. There is a line where people go from a pet-home to a performance/show home. I think that is where they are getting the dog for the performance rather than doing the performance for the dog. And I know which type, I would prefer my dogs to go to. 

I do not think of pet-people as people who have foo-foo dogs that they dress up in tutus and give them their own bedroom with furniture -- they're kooks, not pet-people. Pet-people generally have the best dog-homes, will do anything for their dogs, will go the extra mile, pay whatever it takes to get the dog what they need, feed excellent food, train their dogs, and build relationships with them. And they fall on the entire spectrum of experience level with dogs. 

I don't see it as something that should offend; though just like any tool can be abused, and word, phrase, or label can be abused.

ETA: I thought "partner" was the PC term for a people in a same-sex relationship. I can't refer to my critters like that. I think I like dog owner better.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Jack's Dad said:


> Can't escape it packen. Pet people are everywhere and they are watching you.


They are at my 6 watching as I type  They are everywhere!


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

SunCzarina said:


> Random example, friend of mine raises puppies for Fidelco. She's got 9 or 10 dogs right now because if they wash out on being a guide (I'd imagine that work has a much higher wash out rate than even a K9), she takes her puppies back. If she can't find them a suitable working home, they stay with her their life. She trains them for SAR.


Good to know that if a dog washes out of everything, he can still do SAR.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Kind of like how they say if you can't go to Duke go to Carolina and if you can't go to Carolina go to NC State, and if you can't go to NC State go to jail.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Packen said:


> Good to know that if a dog washes out of everything, he can still do SAR.


Is this really fair or helpful?

Not every good dog can be a leader-dog for the blind. It is not necessarily the best job for every individual out there. Whatever. Some things are just frustrating. Maybe you have to have an abrasive personality to be into some things.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I use the term "pet people" and yes, I'm sometimes condescending when I say it. Though I doubt anyone here would fit my definition lol
"Pet people" are those who can not see past the dog as a pet. It's not even a dog to them; it is a PET. If natural "dog behaviors" get in their way of their vision of what their pet should be, then the dog is at fault. It is not behaving as a "pet" They don't want animals to behave as animals or have the instincts of an animal.
This also includes those people who believe that their dogs are tiny little humans who happen to be wearing a fur coat. 
They don't want to learn about dogs and they are often just as condescending to those of us who treat our dogs, well, LIKE DOGS. Their dog, to them, is above all human life except possibly the children they gave birth too. 

It's not just that their dogs are "pets" My dogs are pets. But their life revolves around the dogs as pets and nothing, including the dog wanting to be a dog, should get in the way with that. They are the ones who claim an almost psychic link with their dogs, which of course they never have to train because the dog was born knowing how to be their pet. 
They don't want to know about dogs. They don't want to learn about dogs. They spout weird irrelevant information that someone told them and swear it is the gospel truth. Like someone who says their vet told them the reason the dog got heartworm was because she fed tablescraps. That "human food" attracts mosquitoes, proven by the fact that mosquitoes bite people :crazy:
Or the people who swear on a stack of bibles that, if forced to choose between swerving to miss a dog and hitting a stranger on the sidewalk, that they would run over the human. Because everyone knows that the majority of the human race are horrid and cruel while dogs are loving blessed creatures.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

I'm a pet person who likes working breeds for what they are. I've never found it offensive, and if I've ever seen it said in a derogatory or condescending manner, it must not have stood out to me because I don't remember it. I mean... how else would we say it? I guess I feel the same way about relabeling it "partners" as I do about changing the term "owners" to "guardians" or what have you. Like Sunflowers said... my dog is a pet, and I'm a person, and for the foreseeable future, every dog I end up with will also be a pet (regardless of what we dabble in). If that doesn't make me a pet person, I don't know what I am!



Packen said:


> I am really afraid of pet people. One of them screamed at me in front of Pet Supplies Plus because my dogs barked at her when she was sneaking around my car and peering inside!


LOL I remember that story. Good dogs!



Jack's Dad said:


> Can't escape it packen. Pet people are everywhere and they are watching you.


:rofl: Very ominous!!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Packen said:


> Good to know that if a dog washes out of everything, he can still do SAR.


How is that anything but snarky? It lends absolutely nothing to the topic of pet people. Of course they are my friend's pets. As the wash out K9 on the next block is my neighbors pet. Just as much a pet as my son's service dog prospect who's laying on the couch next to me right now.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

What is snarky? Is it a pet people word?


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Packen said:


> What is snarky? Is it a pet people word?



I'm just going to address you with this, because I don't feel like going back and finding your question to me previously. 

Of course I realize dogs wash out. I think that's a good thing. I wouldn't want dogs that don't cut it in the program. I also don't see anything wrong with really wanting to get a dog that one can compete at high level with, and having it end up unsuited to the task, causing a rehoming. I would hope, that this would be a rare occurrence, since if you _are_ truly competing at high levels, you would have a pretty good idea of what you are getting. I also realize that some people, who only think they have room for one animal, but _really _want to do some sort of IPO, SDA whatever, might end up with the same. As long as a proper home with responsible owners, who will keep the dog for the rest of it's life is found, fine. 

But don't try to tell me you don't know people that go through dogs like underwear. 

Also, I'm just going to say this about SAR-- I can't speak for the dog side of Wilderness SAR, since I haven't spent that much time in it. I'm not participating in it with my dog, although he was evaluated and found suitable. For various reasons the dog end will have to wait. I _am, _however, a certified member of INSAR here, with Spokane County Sheriff's dept, and I can tell you that it isn't a joke. There is an intense training program that lasted months, with many certifications, and lest some of you forget, I live in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains, and the terrain is quite different from many areas of the country-- I've lived on the East Coast, I've traveled all over the country. There's 7 states I haven't been to, I have a pretty good idea of what the midwest and the east and south look like. SAR here, is expensive, tough, challenging, both mentally and physically, and definitely not for the faint of heart. I grew up tromping in the mountains of Western Montana and I still found it challenging. Don't knock it til you've taken the route and passed the certs. 

After all, isn't that what you always say to people who call IPO just 'sport'? I would venture to bet there is time and effort and skill involved, and that it's a lot more work than it appears.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Cool, so were you explaining the definition of snarky or saying that your dog is certified for SAR, I lost track?


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Packen said:


> Cool, so were you explaining the definition of snarky or saying that your dog is certified for SAR, I lost track?


You know, I remember way back when I first got my dog, I pm'd you with a training question. You were quite nice, good information, helped. I don't know if it's happy hour where you are, or what, but in my first sentence I addressed your post.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Still no comprende, have 10 more minutes before I take dogs out train.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Better finish that drink then.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Packen said:


> What is snarky? Is it a pet people word?


Apparently so. It means inappropriate and somewhat nasty.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Whatever you say lady, not a good time for riddles.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I think my post was quite clear. You are the one that asked me what I thought about dogs that washed out. Or is your memory failing? I hear that does happen eventually.  

Nevermind, you'll go out and train your dogs, and I'm actually on my way to a SAR meeting right now, to discuss the Alzheimer's patient found wandering on the back side of Mt Spokane a few weeks ago, with a core body temp of 95 degrees, down in a deep hollow with snow and slide alder underneath.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Hit in the head by a flying german shepherd too many times perhaps. Those skulls are hard...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

SunCzarina said:


> Hit in the head by a flying german shepherd too many times perhaps.  Those skulls are hard...


:thumbup:


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Drunk posting= best posting


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Drunk posting= best posting



I agree. But I think this forum does not see it in the same light.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

story of my life.... :toasting:


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

RocketDog said:


> I think my post was quite clear. You are the one that asked me what I thought about dogs that washed out. Or is your memory failing? I hear that does happen eventually.
> 
> Nevermind, you'll go out and train your dogs, and I'm actually on my way to a SAR meeting right now, to discuss the Alzheimer's patient found wandering on the back side of Mt Spokane a few weeks ago, with a core body temp of 95 degrees, down in a deep hollow with snow and slide alder underneath.


She's trolling why bother?


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Packen said:


> Good to know that if a dog washes out of everything, he can still do SAR.


 
They gotta do something besides all that breeding it being a real job and all...gotta pass on those genetics!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No, there is drunk posting, and there is being a jerk. Sorry, but being a jerk, drunk or not, just causes people to lose all respect for you.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Drunk decoying=best decoying


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I think the point of Lauren's OP was not to eliminate the use of the term "pet people" as a means of distinguishing between a home where the dog's main function is companionship versus an organized activity outside the home, but rather to point out that when the term is used in a demeaning fashion we in those "pet homes" do recognize the insult for what it is.

To me, when working dog owners refer to "pet people" like myself, I hear the assumption that I do nothing with my dogs. That they are on tie outs in the back yard with a bowl of rainwater in a yard full of dog poop.

Or maybe I also hear the assumption that I treat my dog like a child in a fur suit, an obvious replacement for the baby I never had. The unruly brat who rules the house and who's every behavior is excused or uselessly chided in a sweet voiced and completely ineffectual manner

That's all crap, is what it is.

My dog is my running partner, my photographic muse, my guardian (this one goes both ways). My husband and I built an agility course for our dogs in the front yard. We don't do agility, have never taken a class. But we wanted to have a fun activity to do other than playing fetch. I am home with my dogs 24/7. If I am outside, they are outside. If I am inside, they are inside. I read every book on dog behavior that I can get my hands on, just so I can get to know them better.

Yes I talk to my dogs. One of them even wears clothes when it gets cold.  I make them a special dinner every night. I bake homemade treats. I throw birthday parties and bake doggy cakes. I have house rules that are consistently enforced. My dogs are happy, healthy, and fit into my lifestyle perfectly.

So, if that somehow makes me less of a person...? Okay. I will agree, it takes a special kind of person to title a dog, to spend the time and money doing it. But I would like to think that we "pet people" have a lot to offer a dog as well.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Baillif said:


> Drunk decoying=best decoying


pictures or it never happened


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

lmao


Nigel, Packen is a 'he'. 

I think.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

RocketDog said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> Nigel, Packen is a 'he'.
> ...


He/she either way, don't feed the troll lol,


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

SunCzarina said:


> pictures or it never happened


Not me but Alex was plastered in this one. The head plant into the palisade was hilarious. 

Red Star Primo vs Alex Vyatkin - YouTube


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Vodka will do it to you. Imagine the hangover!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

hungover decoying=headplant


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Hi there Jenn! And everyone else!
Missed you!
What seems to be the problem??
Forgive my outdated profile as I work to change that!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Good_Karma said:


> I think the point of Lauren's OP was not to eliminate the use of the term "pet people" as a means of distinguishing between a home where the dog's main function is companionship versus an organized activity outside the home, but rather to point out that when the term is used in a demeaning fashion we in those "pet homes" do recognize the insult for what it is.
> 
> To me, when working dog owners refer to "pet people" like myself, I hear the assumption that I do nothing with my dogs. That they are on tie outs in the back yard with a bowl of rainwater in a yard full of dog poop.
> 
> ...


Excellent post Leah!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm not offended when someone refers to my dogs as "pets",,tho I kinda do prefer companions, buddies, amigos, body guard, (just kidding 

It's what they are first and foremost, they muddy up my house, sleep in my bed, guard me when I take a shower. 

I used to compete in doggie activities, it was fun, it was a learning experience, but sometimes life gets in the way. There's also not much in the way of 'working' stuff in my neck of the woods, so our 'work' is fun stuff, hiking, tracking, some herding here and there, 

When you think about it, I would say the highest percentage of gsd's in this country live in 'pet' homes, if it weren't for those 'pet' people, shelters would be over run and breeders/ good and bad would be outta business


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

RocketDog said:


> I think my post was quite clear. You are the one that asked me what I thought about dogs that washed out. Or is your memory failing? I hear that does happen eventually.
> 
> Nevermind, you'll go out and train your dogs, and I'm actually on my way to a SAR meeting right now, to discuss the Alzheimer's patient found wandering on the back side of Mt Spokane a few weeks ago, with a core body temp of 95 degrees, down in a deep hollow with snow and slide alder underneath.


Oh I see, lol. Your training must be as clear too then. Better give your dog a good treat for finding the sick person!


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Nigel said:


> She's trolling why bother?


Why thank you missy


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

selzer said:


> No, there is drunk posting, and there is being a jerk. Sorry, but being a jerk, drunk or not, just causes people to lose all respect for you.


Sure does, especially if the lying jerk is a "breeder"  We are in agreement.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Packen said:


> Why thank you missy


Your welcome cupcake!


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Appropriate response


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Packen said:


> Sure does, especially if the lying jerk is a "breeder"  We are in agreement.


Quick training session, huh? Or are you calling yourself a lying jerk?


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

We should have IPO meetings and discuss stuff. I bet there would be tea and cookies.


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## mtmarabianz (Jan 7, 2010)

I have a different definition of "Pet Owners":

My neighbors 2 houses down, with 2 GSD, both Female & (Really)
NO Fence, No Collars, NO Leashes!! (NEVER Seen On Leash/collared in 4 Years!!)
& the Above entire life of these dogs, (confiscated once by animal control because of the No & Never above) but all they did is go get another dog & do the same.

Picture the above & walking by with intact female on leash  
Accident waiting to Happen? But still they do not learn .....
Small city lot, butts up to city park .....

Pet Owner: Neighbor next to where I run my GSD, with female Pit (DA = Dog aggressive) & having to explain that my female GSD & his female Pit Will Never Be Friends .... Idiot

Pet Owner: Loose dog at park (not dog park) owner running after dog yelling "he's Friendly"
W/E (What Ever)

My definition of "Pet Owners" are people who have No clue regarding Canine Behavior, Training, ..... & who will never change, as they are not educated, or willing to be educated regarding a dog.

Those are "Pet Owners", or "People" & they are ALL around us, 
Why I carry Grizzly Bear Spray, for protection from their stupidity, & for the safety of my GSD, as fighting another dog Will never happen (knock on wood) on my clock.

But even as I have explained training ect to all the above, still remains the same!!


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

selzer said:


> Quick training session, huh? Or are you calling yourself a lying jerk?


Heeling with 3 send outs, how long does it take? But how would you know? so it would more fall into the category of "clueless"?


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## d4lilbitz (Dec 30, 2013)

Good_Karma said:


> I think the point of Lauren's OP was not to eliminate the use of the term "pet people" as a means of distinguishing between a home where the dog's main function is companionship versus an organized activity outside the home, but rather to point out that when the term is used in a demeaning fashion we in those "pet homes" do recognize the insult for what it is.
> 
> To me, when working dog owners refer to "pet people" like myself, I hear the assumption that I do nothing with my dogs. That they are on tie outs in the back yard with a bowl of rainwater in a yard full of dog poop.
> 
> ...


 
I agree 100% with Leah's post. As a "pet owner" or "companion owner" however people wish to refer to it, I do have a lot to offer my dog. I don't get offended by the use of the word pet home. I understand why some have their opinions. Not all pet homes are bad, just like not all sporting/working homes are. 

My current dogs are considered family to me. I make sure they are happy, healthy, and loved. At the end of the day all dogs whether they are pets or working dogs should receive this. While I haven't participated in organized sports with my dogs, I take them hiking, running, biking, etc. As long as they have a job, they are happy. My new puppy will be my first sporting dog. He to will be a member of the family, IPO is second. If IPO isn't our thing, he'll still be a valued member. I don't consider a pet home to be a bad thing, I consider my home an active pet home : ) I know what value I bring to my pets and they bring to me.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

mtmarabianz said:


> I have a different definition of "Pet Owners":
> 
> "Pet Owners" are people who have No clue regarding Canine Behavior, Training, ..... & who will never change, as they are not educated, or willing to be educated regarding a dog.


Priceless!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Packen said:


> Heeling with 3 send outs, how long does it take? But how would you know? so it would more fall into the category of "clueless"?


Usually going to train for me, means taking my dogs to training classes which are usually 30 - 60 minutes away. 

You can say I am clueless at training, if you like. That would be a matter of opinion. But I am interested at what I have lied about.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Everyone who owns a pet is a pet-person, are pet-people. There are ignorant and lazy pet people, there are well-informed, active, educated, pet-people. If you have a critter who is a pet, you are a pet-person. It is just a person who prefers to live life with some type of critter dependent on them. 

Working dog people are pet-people who work with their dogs in some venue, generally working or sport, and generally with working line pets. 

Show-people are those pet-people who take their pets to shows. These do not have to be dogs, and it does not have to be conformation. 

Breeders are pet-people who choose to breed some of their pets, or dogs they keep for some function, whether or not they treat them primarily as pets. The difference are high-volume breeders who treat their breeding dogs like livestock, which in no way are pets. 

When we have an overall negative definition of an entire population, I think it speaks more about the individual that makes that definition than the population itself.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

I am sorry if "training" means you packing your bags and performing a journey somewhere where a "trainer" could help you. For me it is going to the football fields next to my house and doing it myself. 

Training at the "club" means 6 hours or so give or take and our group trains all 3 phases in detail 1 dog at a time. But that is TMI for you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Packen said:


> I am sorry if "training" means you packing your bags and performing a journey somewhere where a "trainer" could help you. For me it is going to the football fields next to my house and doing it myself.
> 
> Training at the "club" means 6 hours or so give or take and our group trains all 3 phases in detail 1 dog at a time. But that is TMI for you.


Actually, I go for the distractions. I have no football fields next to my house. I have farmlands and county property, woods, and the river. I can take my dogs into the woods, or into my own fenced areas for training, but mostly use my driveway or the business district up-town, because when it isn't raining here, it's snowing, and if the ground isn't icy and slick, its soft and mushy. 

But whatever. You did not answer my question though. If you are going to call someone a lying jerk than you should at least be able to have something to go on.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

:spittingcoffee:


I've seen it happen too, dogs crated in back, lift gate open when it's warm out and we're out training multiple dogs.. :wild:





Packen said:


> I am really afraid of pet people. One of them screamed at me in front of Pet Supplies Plus because my dogs barked at her when she was sneaking around my car and peering inside!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I'm a groomer, so I see "pet people" every day. Some are better owners than others. They all seem to love their pets enough to get them groomed on a regular basis. Most of them are fascinated with my "show dogs", and ask me if we won when they know I've been gone to a dog show. I've always taken my dogs to work with me when they are puppies, so my "pet people" customers see them grow up. Right now Russell (13 months old) comes to work with me each day. 

When I took Russell home at 9-10 weeks old, it was with the idea that if he didn't turn out for the show ring, that I would find him another home. Okay, that was really good in _theory_, but I absolutely know _now_ that I couldn't part with him if he doesn't pan out. He is an amazing boy. If that happens, then no more show dogs for me until some one dies, and that's a sobering thought. Anyway, fingers crossed that he becomes a dog that I want to see in the ring. If not, then he will do something else with me. I guess that makes me a pet person after all. 

I just reconnected with an old friend of mine that is a trainer. I took classes from her at least 10 years ago with my Italian Greyhounds. She doesn't teach classes anymore, but offered to train with me at her house. I am beyond excited. I told her "you know I'm kind of a crappy trainer". She laughed, and said "you can train Italian Greyhounds, you aren't a crappy trainer." Guess I'll pick a shepherd and tell her lets get started on getting an obedience title. I'm still a pet person.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yup. Aka - Ad hominem.




selzer said:


> Everyone who owns a pet is a pet-person, are pet-people. There are ignorant and lazy pet people, there are well-informed, active, educated, pet-people. If you have a critter who is a pet, you are a pet-person. It is just a person who prefers to live life with some type of critter dependent on them.
> 
> Working dog people are pet-people who work with their dogs in some venue, generally working or sport, and generally with working line pets.
> 
> ...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

work your pet and pet your working dog...balance is key.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Packen-- I apologize. Mycobrarcr asked me the original question. Your avatars look very similar. 

In my defense, I received a couple of pm's and they made the same mistake. Guess I'm eating crow when I get home.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

RocketDog said:


> Packen-- I apologize. Mycobrarcr asked me the original question. Your avatars look very similar.
> 
> In my defense, I received a couple of pm's and they made the same mistake. Guess I'm eating crow when I get home.


Glad you cleared that up with yourself, Gray area is BAD in this business (unless you're pet people) haha.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

I've never used or thought of "pet owners" as anything else but a different type of owner. You have a "Show owner" who is active in the show world, a "Working owner" who does anything that's not a show ring, and a "pet owner" who either lightly dabbles in work/show or just has a lovely companion that doesn't do work or show. 

It's a great way to differentiate between who is looking for what when it comes to a breeder; I'm not a show home, so I don't need a dog with the perfect color or perfect ears, while a show home may not need the super high drive that I'm looking for from my GSD. A pet home may not care about the perfect looking dog and may not want the extreme drive of a "perfect" Working dog.

I consider myself to be a pet grade working home. I love to work my dog, but I wouldn't be upset if my dog didn't make the cut. 

The only time I don't like the phrase "pet home" is when it's used to make someone believe that they don't deserve a good quality dog from a breeder. I've seen it a few times on this forum; someone describes that they are a "pet home" and some people automatically suggest rescue/adoption versus recommending a good breeder whereas someone who describes a working/show home gets awesome breeder recommendations. 

Everyone deserves both breeder and rescue recommendations, not just "pet homes". That's my only gripe with it.

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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I have pets my gsd is not a pet. If it couldnt fulfill the purpose for which it was purchased it would not be here. Doesnt mean we cant have fun..but still not a pet.


So, if your dog didn't make the cut for whatever sport you do, you'd get rid of it?

I'm not bashing, just asking for clarification. 

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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Shaolin said:


> So, if your dog didn't make the cut for whatever sport you do, you'd get rid of it?
> 
> I'm not bashing, just asking for clarification.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I am going to take a stab at this. 

I think that for most people who get a dog for a particular function, if the dog washes, it makes sense to let that dog go to a home that will love that dog and work with that dog on the level that that dog requires rather than trying to force a square dog into a round hole, or trying to manage another dog for the function while keeping the first around just because it would be wrong to rehome it. In this case, I think it would be even more wrong to keep it.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

selzer said:


> I am going to take a stab at this.
> 
> I think that for most people who get a dog for a particular function, if the dog washes, it makes sense to let that dog go to a home that will love that dog and work with that dog on the level that that dog requires rather than trying to force a square dog into a round hole, or trying to manage another dog for the function while keeping the first around just because it would be wrong to rehome it. In this case, I think it would be even more wrong to keep it.



:thumbup: Nailed it! Many people keep looking at it as just a sport. It can become more a lifestyle. I will use myself as an example. I train 30 hours or more a week. I'm also a helper/decoy which means other people count on me to be there to work their dogs. These people are also my friends so it's a social time as well. I can't just not go because my dog washed out. That would leave others stranded not being able to work their dogs. If the dog can not participate in that big part of my life then it would be better suited in a home that matches it's personality better.


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## Curtis (Jun 9, 2013)

I feel like a Timelord. The Doctor is nearly a thousand years old and has seen countless companions come and go. They sure have fun while they are together. Maybe we throw in a little Schutzhund. 

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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Curtis said:


> I feel like a Timelord. The Doctor is nearly a thousand years old and has seen countless companions come and go. They sure have fun while they are together. Maybe we throw in a little Schutzhund.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I think I may love you for bringing Doctor Who into this hilarious argument. Bow ties are cool, Allons-y, Everybody Lives!!! Just this once Rose, everybody lives!!!!!


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

Curtis said:


> I feel like a Timelord. The Doctor is nearly a thousand years old and has seen countless companions come and go. They sure have fun while they are together. Maybe we throw in a little Schutzhund.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Hahahaha from one whovian to another this is an interesting way of putting it!! 


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

selzer said:


> I think that for most people who get a dog for a particular function, if the dog washes, it makes sense to let that dog go to a home that will love that dog and work with that dog on the level that that dog requires rather than trying to force a square dog into a round hole, or trying to manage another dog for the function while keeping the first around just because it would be wrong to rehome it. In this case, I think it would be even more wrong to keep it.


Bingo. 

I _wish_ I could rehome Crookytail. He can't do anything I want to do, not even as imperfectly as Pongu. If there were _any_ sport I could do with the guy, any sport at all, I'd be happy to do that. I'm not set on any particular one. But there is nothing.

I don't enjoy training him, he knows it, he's sad about it, I'm guilty because he's sad, and round and round we go on a carousel of bad feelings.

And it's doubly a shame because he is a _great_ pet dog. Crooky is happy to chill out as long as needed, to hike and run as long as needed, to play with kids or other dogs. Whatever social activity you involve him in, he's thrilled to do it and he'll do it perfectly. He just sucks at formal work.

I wish I could send him off to a home that would love him and appreciate him for all his many great qualities, instead of being endlessly disappointed about the relatively small and unimportant sliver of things he _can't_ do. I think we'd both be happier.


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## Curtis (Jun 9, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> Everybody Lives!!! Just this once Rose, everybody lives!!!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


My favorite quote from my favorite Doctor! Thanks for the smile.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Curtis said:


> My favorite quote from my favorite Doctor! Thanks for the smile.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I thought I was alone in my love of Eccelston!!! Loved him since "Run"!!! 

Of course Tom Baker ricks my socks as well!!!

Sorry for the Hijack. 


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> I think I may love you for bringing Doctor Who into this hilarious argument. Bow ties are cool, Allons-y, Everybody Lives!!! Just this once Rose, everybody lives!!!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Bananas are good!

Or who knows this one, "who would like a jelly baby?" 


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> I thought I was alone in my love of Eccelston!!! Loved him since "Run"!!!
> 
> Of course Tom Baker ricks my socks as well!!!
> 
> ...



He's my favorite from the reboot as well!! He's so underrated but the best in my opinion!! 

Pertwee and Tom Baker from the old series as well!!! 


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Merciel said:


> Bingo.
> 
> I _wish_ I could rehome Crookytail. He can't do anything I want to do, not even as imperfectly as Pongu. If there were _any_ sport I could do with the guy, any sport at all, I'd be happy to do that. I'm not set on any particular one. But there is nothing.
> 
> ...


I'll go out on a limb here and say that the dog is probably not sad at all and loves you no matter what. The issue is human related not dog related. Who cares if he can't do anything, I'm sure he has fun trying.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Eiros said:


> He's my favorite from the reboot as well!! He's so underrated but the best in my opinion!!
> 
> Pertwee and Tom Baker from the old series as well!!!
> 
> ...



Grew up with the Fourth and Fifth Doctors. When someone's mentions the series, I see Tom Baker. But the reboot is great. Cant wait for August. 


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

llombardo said:


> I'll go out on a limb here and say that the dog is probably not sad at all and loves you no matter what. The issue is human related not dog related. Who cares if he can't do anything, I'm sure he has fun trying.


Oh it is absolutely totally 100% my fault.

_I_ care that he can't do anything, because one of my personal flaws is that I can't be satisfied with the world's most awesome pet dog if he sucks at sport work. There is no actual reason for me to care, other than that I just do. I really like formal training and I really like competition and I don't have much fun with a dog who can't hack it.

As a result, Crooky does not have fun trying, because inevitably I get frustrated and disappointed with how slowly he learns and how often he messes up (especially next to Pongu), and I'm just not good enough a liar to hide my disappointment from him. Crooky is a really, _really_ soft dog, and he just gets crushed when he senses that I'm disappointed in him. I don't overtly say or _do_ anything, and I still try to cheer him on, but I'm terrible at dissembling and he totally knows when I'm faking it.


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> Grew up with the Fourth and Fifth Doctors. When someone's mentions the series, I see Tom Baker. But the reboot is great. Cant wait for August.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I think I've read that Tom Baker is the most popular overall, especially in the UK! Here in the us the reboot is popular but not many people go back and watch the old ones, except for me! Haha

So excited for August!


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## Curtis (Jun 9, 2013)

Eiros said:


> I think I've read that Tom Baker is the most popular overall, especially in the UK! Here in the us the reboot is popular but not many people go back and watch the old ones, except for me! Haha
> 
> So excited for August!
> 
> ...


I'm sorry OP for the derailment. 

I've gone back and watched them from the beginning as well! I'm up to Tom Baker. :-D

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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Merciel said:


> As a result, Crooky does not have fun trying, because inevitably I get frustrated and disappointed with how slowly he learns and how often he messes up (especially next to Pongu), and I'm just not good enough a liar to hide my disappointment from him. Crooky is a really, _really_ soft dog, and he just gets crushed when he senses that I'm disappointed in him. I don't overtly say or _do_ anything, and I still try to cheer him on, but I'm terrible at dissembling and he totally knows when I'm faking it.



This breaks my heart for Crookytail. I get what you are saying, and commend you for putting it out there. But poor dog. Never good enough? Not being able to do what you want is one thing, but to give up trying, sad. 

My girl Lena, got for USAR. Did not want to do it. Ok. Tried other stuff, either she or I, not into it. But never does she stop trying. Never do see her as a failure. She is probably one if the most amazing animals I will ever have the pleasure of owning. I learn from her daily. 

Stop thinking if what he can't do, and set him up for success. Be proud of him. He will reward you. 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

gsdsar said:


> This breaks my heart for Crookytail. I get what you are saying, and commend you for putting it out there. But poor dog. Never good enough? Not being able to do what you want is one thing, but to give up trying, sad.
> 
> My girl Lena, got for USAR. Did not want to do it. Ok. Tried other stuff, either she or I, not into it. But never does she stop trying. Never do see her as a failure. She is probably one if the most amazing animals I will ever have the pleasure of owning. I learn from her daily.
> 
> ...


Or find him a home. If he truly is a square dog, it isn't fair to try and squeeze him through a round hole. 

Tori didn't like going to trials. On the morning of her third leg, I told her if she qualified, I wouldn't take her to any more shows. She qualified and I kept my promise. It was fine with her, she was a home-body. There were other things she could do to please me. I was never disappointed in her. 

It sounds really sad, the way you put it.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

This is how my pittie is. Now he truly is my "pet dog". I have put a couple of titles on him but he hated it every step of the way. He likes to "play", but as soon as training becomes formal he gets the saddest look on his face. I was going to trial him next month just because the other dog I was going to trial is out now and I want to trial. The more I thought about it, I decided it's not fair to him to put him through it. I'm sure we could pass though it wouldn't be too pretty. He does a much better job keeping my bed/couch warm for me


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

My husband loves Crooky way too much to let him go, that's why I can't rehome him.

But I do all the training and exercising and caretaking, so Crooky and I are still stuck with each other in that regard.

Right now I'm just clicker shaping a dumbbell retrieve with him. It's not even a formal retrieve and he will never use it for anything, so no real pressure. Neither Level 3 Rally nor Open obedience will ever be remotely within his reach.

...but sweet holy _god_ it's like nails across the chalkboard of my soul to deliberately accept sloppy work.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Dainerra said:


> They are the ones who claim an almost psychic link with their dogs, which of course they never have to train because the dog was born knowing how to be their pet.
> They don't want to know about dogs. They don't want to learn about dogs. They spout weird irrelevant information that someone told them and swear it is the gospel truth.


Ah yes, I'm familiar with that type of "pet person". If they are deliberately ignorant and stubbornly refuse to learn, instead firmly believing in every old wives' tale they've grown up hearing, scoffing at vets, trainers, and other experts because they think they know more than anyone... those give "pet people" a bad name. 

But when I use the term "pet people", that's not what I'm thinking of. I'm simply thinking of the average person who owns a pet, but isn't an expert or professional and doesn't have the interest or desire to become one. Thankfully, there are a lot of dogs that don't need "expert" owners. 

Just because you aren't a dog expert doesn't mean you're a "bad" or "lesser" pet owner. It's simply a different perspective and different priorities. People may be crazy about their pet and do anything for them, but haven't really studied dog behavior, health, or training, nor do they aspire to. As a professional groomer, these folks are my bread and butter. They bring their dogs to a groomer because they don't want to do it themselves, do not know how, or don't have time, etc. They rely on me as a "first alert" system, because I am probably the only one that actually looks inside the dog's ears, checks over every inch of skin, and notices little lumps and bumps, trouble with private parts, or other health issues. Not to mention giving custom or breed-specific clips that most people don't know how to do. If every dog owner was an "expert", they'd all be grooming their own dogs, and I would be out of a job. 



dogfaeries said:


> I'm a groomer, so I see "pet people" every day. Some are better owners than others.


This is what it boils down to. As a fellow groomer I see the gamut of "pet people", from those who adore their dogs and spoil them rotten, to those who only take the pet to the groomer once a year or when the dog is so matted it can barely move, to the ones who have a "psychic connection" with their dog, or think their dog is a reincarnation of a lost loved one. 

I think what divides a "pet person" from an "expert" or "working owner" or whatever you want to call it, is simply the level of involvement with the dog and how much you are putting into that relationship. Working, training, sport, conformation, breeding, etc. take an enormous amount of time, energy, study, and resources, so you have to be REALLY into your dogs and have a desire to learn and do as much as possible. More so than the average pet owner with the average family dog, who may have other responsibilities, hobbies and interests.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Freestep said:


> People may be crazy about their pet and do anything for them, but haven't really studied dog behavior, health, or training, nor do they aspire to.
> 
> 
> I think what divides a "pet person" from an "expert" or "working owner" or whatever you want to call it, is simply the level of involvement with the dog and how much you are putting into that relationship. Working, training, sport, conformation, breeding, etc. take an enormous amount of time, energy, study, and resources, so you have to be REALLY into your dogs and have a desire to learn and do as much as possible. More so than the average pet owner with the average family dog, who may have other responsibilities, hobbies and interests.


I have to disagree with these two statements.

I am crazy about my dogs. I would do anything for them. I was with you that far.  But I also feel that I put just as much into my relationships with my dogs as someone who goes to a few hours of training a week. I can't know this for certain of course, because I can't step into a working dog owner's head, but I have observed how my connection with both dogs has evolved over time.

It absolutely changed when we did training, I will admit that. Training laid the groundwork for a solid relationship, one built on trust and joy of learning. But we stopped training a couple years ago and I feel closer to my dogs than ever. We live in a remote area, and my husband works from home. I am retired. We don't go out much, really only leave the property for my daily runs or for supplies. My husband and me and the dogs operate as a unit.

My male has some behavioral issues with reactivity and sharpness, some DA. I have made it my mission in life to help him with that. That's why I said I studied every dog behavior book I can find. And books on the evolution from dog to wolf. And behavioral training using various methods. And contrary to what I have seen some people say, you CAN learn from books. We built a friggin house based on what we read in books, so don't tell me that.

You know what the difference is between my home and a working dog home? I don't travel and I don't spend money. I still dedicate many hours a week to the enrichment of my dogs, whether that be through exercise or informal training. My dogs can't find a missing person, or run an agility course in seconds, or do perfect obedience. But I can call them off squirrels and deer. I can leave a dozen frames of honey on my kitchen counter and be confident they will be there when I get back from gathering firewood. I literally just learned that when a stranger comes onto my property, my dogs will alert bark, run up to the person/people, and hold them there. I didn't train that, so I am assuming that behavior is at least somewhat a result of my relationship with them.

I will absolutely call out anyone who suggests that my relationship is inferior to that of a working dog owner.

I follow several dog photography pages on Facebook. Those dogs' sole function is to allow themselves to be posed by their owners so he or she can photograph them. You can see the bond shining through in those photos. That's why they are so moving, and why those pages have thousands of fans. These are not working dogs, unless you consider posing for the camera as work (in which case my Niko is a working dog). I would put that bond between photographer and their dogs up against any schutzhund enthusiast.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Saying this ONCE.*

*I don't have time to read thru every post here at the moment, I do have to work for a living*


*If you can't post something intelligent and civil, don't post. *

*In Fact, I'm locking this thread right now because some can't play nice.*

*Maybe later when I can go thru it, I'll clean it up, and re-open.*


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