# Choke Collar ?



## thegreatescapex0 (May 17, 2009)

Okay, I'm asking this on this forum before I even decide whether I should get my 8 month old GSD Liam a choke/correction collar because I do not know much about them and hopefully someone who has experience with them can help me.

Liam loves to pull... and it's become a problem. I feel reluctant to take him on walks because of this, because it's difficult to hold such a big dog down, and it even gets quite embarassing. I like to take him on walks on a trail in nearby woods, and I was hoping that a choke collar would make it easier after training with it at home. 

I know there are different types of correction collars, so I was wondering if there is one where I can use strictly as a walking collar?? Any help would be appreciated, thank you 

Also can anyone tell me what exactly can a martingale collar help with? Will it work on a 8 month old puppy?


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I know how you feel. A large, strong dog can be tough! I would recommend a prong collar before a plain, ol' choke chain. 

I have no idea what a martingale collar is, so I have no help for you there!


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I've tried a choke collar on my pup and it still didnt work. In fact, it made it worse b/c he was choking himself. I felt like crap as a result. A vet tech suggested I use a prong collar but I'm feel hard pressed to try it. Cesar Milan has a collar (don't shoot me guys, I'm not a big fan of CM), I think it's called the miracle collar but don't have experience with it.

I switched my pup to a harness and I have better control. He seems to like it also so it's win/win. Pulling can be a tough one, I know. What I learned from the puppy preschool class is when the pup starts to pull, stand like a tree. Let him doing the pulling, not you. Wait until there's slack in the leash, give your command and proceed. Keep rewarding and praising when he's not pulling. I find that this helps with my pup.</span>


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I use a prong collar and training. I've had great success with these and have been able to switch back to a flat collar. Dogs respond to oppositional force. The more you pull back, the more in general they pull forward which is why I'm surprised a general harness would work. More forms of control devices for walking make forward pulling unpleasant and it's up to you to make staying with you rewarding.

I've heard of people using some of the control harnesses with success, but I'm not a fan. I actually attended a clinic where my dog was a "practice dog" where they had to show vets how to use/fit some of these products. They can be kind of complicated. 

I do not like the Gentle Leader either. Makes your dog easier to hold onto, but I never could get the feel for how to use it. My dog always pulled into it, just bent his neck down to his chest.

I would not use a choke collar. They're in general ineffective and can cause much more damage to your dog.

I like Martingale collars for dogs that like to slip their collars. It tightens but only so far, so when properly used you cannot actually choke your dog. I'm not sure how effective it is for pulling.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

When I am walking with Mandi and I am working on or wanting her to heel or I know there may be a time when I will absolutely need control (there are some dogs down the street that we are learning we cannot play with everytime we see them) I use a prong collar.

Out for leisurely casual walks I usually just use her normal buckle collar.

I tried the gentle leader, but was unsuccessful. She hated it and after weeks of trying and trying to get her used to it I gave up. I do know that many people do have success with it though. Guess it depends on the person and the dog.

I also know people have had success with martingales, but I have never used one.

I dont care for choke chains because most dogs I have used one on never cared much that they were being choked and pulled anyway.

Mandi has a harness, too, and I have tried it a few times, but I cant get the hang of it - it feels weird to me - and I think she likes it too much cuz she pulls with it...like she is pulling a sled or something.

The prong was the easiest I found with the quickest results and the least amount of corrections to the dog.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Choke collars can be effective training tools for experienced trainers, and dogs that are ALREADY trained and know what is expected of them. I would not use it on a dog to prevent pulling, or to teach it not to pull, because as most people have found out, it doesn't work, and big strong dogs like GSDs will only pull harder and choke themselves. They can cause damage to the wind pipe too. 

A martingale is like a choke, but instead of a chain it is usually a flat collar - thus distributing the pressure over a larger area than the chain of your typical choke, and it also limits the amount it can tighten - a nice safety feature. A martingale may work, but to me it sounds like your pup is so "into" pulling, that he may just ignore the martingale also. 

Like the others, I also would reccommend a prong collar. Despite their look, they are very humane, will not cause damage if used properly. Best thing would be to find an experienced person/trainer that can show you how to fit one, and how to use one to give effective corrections. I was very hesitant to use a prong with my rescue because, well, they look so _drastic_ but relented as the pulling was a real problem, and I'm a convert now!!! They don't just prevent pulling, they _teach_ the dog not to pull, and my rescue is so much better on a flat now, though I still use the prong for walks as she is reactive to other dogs and the prong ensures that I have full control. 

A halti may or may not work for you. They don't actually teach the dog to not pull, it just prevents them from pulling. Acutally, it prevents SOME dogs from pulling, others just brace themselves agains it and pull anyways. And I really don't like them on young dogs, and especially on young BIG STRONG dogs as their excited jumping around or unexpected lunging at something could cause neck damage from snapping the head back suddenly. Also, I don't find them safe: I sometimes help out as an assistant in dog-obedience classes, and I can't tell you how many dogs managed to wiggle out of their halters/gentle leaders and take off. 

I believe the Illusion Collar is a regular choke collar with a few extra straps that keeps the choke part up high on the neck (like where you would fit a prong) where it is more effective, as opposed to the lower parts of the neck that are heavily muscled. A lady had one on her Lab in one the classes I was in, and frankly, didn't seem to do much to help keep her dog under control - though I haven't seen the dog before she started using the collar, so maybe what I saw WAS an improvement, LOL. 

Try the prong, you won't regret it!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

IMO the only value of a choke collar is simply a collar that cannot be slipped. I only use them on dogs that are already trained to walk (even with no leash or collar) or as backup when using another collar or device.

If you want a "correction" collar then I would try the prong.

There is also the Gentle Leader which goes over the muzzle and high up behind the ears, and the Easy Walk which goes across the front of the chest and underneath. Of the two I've had better luck with the Gentle Leader, but I personally don't like it and neither do my "puller" dogs so I no longer use it. My "puller" dogs would rather wear a prong and get a swift correction if needed, then have to wear a GL on their face for the entire walk/trip.

A Martingale is simply a collar that can't be slipped but also limits how far the collar can tighten. I've never really seen or heard of it being used as a training collar to help with pulling (I've trained dogs wearing martingale's but not major pullers).


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

The dog still has to be trained not to pull. The only thing a choker will do is, well choke the dog when he's pulling. Regardless of the type of collar, training still has to take place. It's one of the reasons I dislike "aids" such as halti's, prongs etc. While they prevent a behavior from occurring, it doesn't really train the dog to do anything. Each can have their place but only if training is being conducted and the device isn't used as a crutch.

DFrost


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Prong or front clip harness would be best.


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## PipiK (May 25, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: LiamGSDOkay, I'm asking this on this forum before I even decide whether I should get my 8 month old GSD Liam a choke/correction collar because I do not know much about them and hopefully someone who has experience with them can help me.
> 
> Liam loves to pull... and it's become a problem. I feel reluctant to take him on walks because of this, because it's difficult to hold such a big dog down, and it even gets quite embarassing. I like to take him on walks on a trail in nearby woods, and I was hoping that a choke collar would make it easier after training with it at home.
> 
> ...


We were using choke chains on our two girls because they were pulling too, and it was scary to think they could pull out of a flat buckle collar. The only problem was that they kept pulling anyway. We had to teach them how to walk more calmly on the leash, which obedience school helped with a lot.

So then I learned about Martingale collars and bought one. I like it a whole lot better than the choke collar because there's actually a limit to how much it can tighten, yet the dog can't pull out. They're used a lot for greyhounds because their smaller heads make it easier for them to pull out of traditional collars.

My pups actually like the martingale collar better too. You can do a Google search or something and find them being sold all over the place.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Martingales are great in case you're ever worried about them backing out of the collars. I don't know if they help much with leash training...we used other methods for that, but got both pups martingales just to help insure their safety when out.

We got our from Fido's Fashion Collars...they're fabric with the chain. A little pricey, but they come in fast and have held up very well so far. Even in water.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LiamGSD
> 
> Liam loves to pull...


put him on a prong..he'll stop pulling


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Train him not to pull. Take him to obedience classes. Prong collars are not necessary for the vast majority of the dogs out there. I can see using a prong collar if all of the following are true:

A. You are not strong enough to control the dog on an ordinary collar.

B. You are afraid for the dog's safety. 

C. You have a full grown dog that you got as an adult and have not been able to train him yet, and are concerned about the safety of other dogs or people.

D. You believe that the dog will not receive the exercise and experience that he needs because you will most likely not take him anywhere because he is unmanageable. 

E. The dog is a hard dog, afraid of nothing and quick to recover from hurt or correction. 

I have trained all of my dogs without having to bite down on their necks with shocks or prongs. It is so unnecessary. We are not wolves and we do not have to prove our power and dominance to our dogs. We have to be leaders. Leaders can lead with their voice and eyes and do not NEED ANY collar to control the dog.

I know that a lot of people on this thread swear by prong collars. I suppose that there are specific types of training where it makes sense to use one. If you need one to walk the dog down the street and you had the dog from a puppy, then the problem is the owner not the dog. 

For a quick fix and power steering, put a prong or a halti on the dog. The dog will be much happier with a prong than a halti. 

If the dog is already strong an powerful, wear a prong to obedience classes, at least the first one so you can be sure of him around other dogs and people. But work to eliminate the training tool. If you are working with a prong collar for more than three months, then I believe you are very likely to become dependent on the prong collar. 

The prong collar is harsh. It works because it IS harsh. Yes, YOU do not have to fight with the dog, and for a very dominant personality that may be a benefit because strong leaders do not fight with those they are leading. 

A choke chain is not as harsh, generally people that use them use them wrong, and correct many more times, or allow the dog to pull and pull and pull with the collar constantly tight. Used properly, it is still a correction collar. 

A head collar dogs hate, especially dominant dogs. You tend to lead your dog like you lead a goat or a horse. They are not prey animals/ herd animals. I think it is quite unnatural for them to be lead by their nose and head. Someone trying to use the collar for corrections is very likely to abuse the collar yanking at their heads. But dogs cannot drag you down the street when their head is turned facing you. I personally find them unsafe because dogs do slip out of them, rather cruel, and completely unnecessary. But that is just an opinion.

Martingales are great, they only tighten to a certain level. They prevent the dog from slipping the collar when panicked. They are not a correction collar. They will do nothing magical about pulling. 

Training your dog, taking it to classes, using positive methods, and praising and treating your dog when it does the right thing, will improve the bond between you, and build the dog's confidence. The dog will learn what you want, and dog it because he wants to please you. 

Using harsh methods will also work. The dog will respect you as being bigger and stronger than he is so he will do what you want him to do. He will not outwardly mind the prong collar because he understands that you are bigger and stronger and have the right to put it on him, and he will get excited because that means he gets to go with his big strong person. 

I prefer to reward a dog for doing the right thing, than punishing a dog for doing the wrong thing. Prong collars, in my opinion, punish the dog before they get the opportunity to err. They have not been taught to walk properly on a lead and are being punished for doing something that they do not know. 

If you kick this same dog that loves his prong collar (because it means he is going with you), if you kick him before going out for a walk every time, he will probably appear perfectly happy with that behavior too. Just because the dog does not cringe or cry out does not mean that pain is not being used to control him. 

It does not seem to be the popular opinion, but I do not like them, I do not use them, I have one, I think they are cruel and unnecessary in the vast majority of their usage. They are a quick fix, short cut, etc., when used in liu of training.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I use a prong collar for walks, mainly because that type of training is just not a priority for me. My dogs love their walks and Nikon gets excited when the prong comes out, it means we are either going out to train for real (which means he gets the BALL) or we are going on a walk and he's happy to see it. He is not perfectly leash trained, I am the absolute first to admit, but I just don't care right now. I have and could walk him without a prong, but since I'm just one thin average height person with three large dogs, I use the prong so I can guarantee that I can manage all three dogs at once (Kenya typically drags her leash or walks off lead, Coke is fine on a flat collar). I can take the same dog out on the SchH field and do his heads up heeling in drive with NO leash and NO collar at all (see my avatar, one hand is holding a toy and the other is swinging behind my back, the dog has a line attached for safety check only and is dragging it). Why? Simply because that is the type of training that is a priority for us. We have leash laws so since the dogs have to wear (or in Kenya's case cheat by dragging) a leash at all times, I don't really care if it's a prong, flat, or martingale as long as the dog enjoys the walk and is excited to go. Using the prong on a walk is not using "harsh training methods" because I do not use walk to train or proof training, they are simply to get fresh air and exercise. I'm not giving any commands or giving out corrections on walks. While the dog is trained to heel for SchH, it would be more harsh of me to expect that type of heeling behavior on a simple walk, so instead I leave my training to the training field and a walk is just a walk.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Dogs don't lie. They will always show their true feelings and emotions. I'm not a good enough dog trainer to have trained my dogs to hide their emotions and act happy when in fact they are terrified and intimidated.

So add another vote here for a happy dogs that dance and jump around in excitment when the prong collar comes out - because saying it is harsh is anthropomorphizing. It seems harsh to us, but to a dog, it is a clear and positive communication venue. 

And no one ever said that if a person is using a prong they do not use positive reward based training to teach desirable behaviours.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Here's another training tool option: The Sense-ation Harness 

Basu (rescued at age 4.5 from an abusive and neglectful situation) pulled so hard on his walks that I thought I would need shoulder surgery. I tried a prong and a gentle leader but neither really helped. He ended up with a groove in his nose from the GL and a hole in his neck from the prong.







I did not even try the choke because I knew it would damage his neck (and yes, I know how to use it properly). Honestly, every walk was a struggle. 

The Sense-ation harness was the only thing that worked for him. It's a front clip harness and basically allows you a lot more control of the dog than a regular collar or harness. I like it better than a prong because if you pull sharply on the prong the dog will yelp and I don't like to introduce that pain aspect into my training relationship with my dog. I did use a prong for Chama and she was always happy to see it b/c she knew it meant a walk but she wasn't happy if she got too sharp of a correction.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I love the front clip harnesses, that is how DH originally trained Coke. I tried it on Nikon but it didn't work at all and he hated it, so I reluctantly switched to the prong but he much prefers that. I'd prefer the front clip harness for walking but the dog just chooses the prong. I would definitely try one before a prong UNLESS it's a large, strong dog where safety and control are real concerns.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Onyx hated the front clip, too. I bought the sensations, maybe I can use it w/ Karlo if he ever decides to pull me. So far he has been so good. Onyx was a wreck on the gentle leader, bucked like it was a bee on her nose. I de-sensitized her to it, but after a couple weeks, gave up. She had an indentation on her muzzle and that was enough for me to see it wasn't the right tool for Onyx. She loves the prong or fursaver, does the happy dance when I jingle it. 
Since she has matured, I use a flat or martingale when I walk alone w/ her; if walking with the other dogs a prong, no big deal. 
She is over 90# and a handful when she decides to be a butthead, so the prong is for control if needed. 
When she was in her fear reactive stage, I did not use the prong collar-it ramped her up more.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The dog would get just as excited if you jingled the leash or the car keys when getting ready to go for a walk. It does not mean he loves the prong, it means he is excited to go for a walk.

My dad's dog gets excited when he comes downstairs with his gun and his boots, that means he is going HUNTING with the dog. You would think the old boy had died and gone to heaven. It has nothing to do with the dog liking the gun or the boots. 

People who train in different venues often use different collars for each, and the dog might get more excited about one of them because he knows that is for this, while the other is for that. It does not mean he likes the collar.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

She is excited when she hears the jingle of the prong. But get out the GL or harness, and she was not at all...even if she knew it was for a walk, she did not like those collars...and would try to avoid me. 
Sorry to not explain myself more clearly


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I tried a head collar -- halti on Dubya, he HATED that. So yes, they can HATE a collar.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Castlemaid
> 
> So add another vote here for a happy dogs that dance and jump around in excitment when the prong collar comes out - because saying it is harsh is anthropomorphizing. It seems harsh to us, but to a dog, it is a clear and positive communication venue.


glad you mentioned that, my dog goes excitedly nuts when i pull out his e-collar. see the trick is associateing the equipment with positive reinforcement. you dont just pick up a peice of equipment like a prong, choke, or e-collar without knowing how to properly introduce it to the dog or know how to use it. when i pull out the "equipment" my dog goes nuts because he knows he is either going to either a) go out for a walk or b) go train/"work." now if he was a softy and all i needed was a flat collar thats what i would use but no, he is a hard [censored] dog that needs strong corrections that would buckle a weak dog.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

all Radyen has to do is hear the jingle of me picking it up. Which he can hear, it seems, 3 miles away. he knows it means we're going for a walk.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

my last suggestion would be to see what works well with the dog. i have used chokers but dont like them as i feel they do more damage than a prong. if a prong is what is needed go for it. i would introduce your dog to a larger MM prong rather than a smaller MM prong as the smaller ones will produce a stronger "pinch." i had to go from a 3.5mm to a 2.0mm because the 3.5mm wasn't doing anything that a flat collar wouldnt do for tyson.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

And my dogs go nutzo when they here their tags on their collar jingling when I pick it up for a walk. They want to go go go. They do not LOVE the equipment.

When you are constantly yelling and nagging a dog, a dog gets a deaf ear. They wait until the exasperation in your voice indicatates that you actually mean it. They are in effect work-hardened to the yelling/nagging. 

If when the dog was a pup, you chose not to yell/nag and spoke a command 1 time and praised him for doing it, and helped him to do it and then praised if he did not, then they journey to the magic pitch in the voice would not be necessary.

I wonder if the same could be true about all these "hard dogs." I know you want a hard dog for working, that is one that is fearless, has a good pain tolerance, and penty of drive. But if a prong collar is NECESSARY for me to train a dog, the dog is worthless to me. 

I kind of think ole Captain Max is turning over and over in his grave when people feel a working dog isn't hard enough if it can be managed without a prong collar. I wonder what those old Germans did before the almighty prong came on the scene.

Many people start their pups obedience training with a prong collar and never look back. If a hard dog is also intelligent, I cannot understand why it is necessary.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Sue, your post is making all kinds of assumptions and connections where there are none. My dogs are not working dogs and none of them are hard at all, in fact I have two so soft that they won't even play a simple fetch or tug game. Yes Nikon is in SchH but he is absolutely NOT a "hard" dog, he is quite soft and sensitive (was just discussing this tonight with the TD). He does not even wear a prong for tracking or protection training, and tonight just did a stellar obedience session simply dragging a long line attached to a flat leather collar.

I stand by my original statement, that for *me*, leash manners for walking in the city is not my training priority. That has absolutely nothing to do with how hard or soft my dog is or even what tools I use, that is how *I* has the handler have chosen to train.

Nagging with a prong is not the correct use. If I need to give a correction, then I give a correction. Despite the common use, I personally do not use a prong as a "self-correcting" device. Maybe others do, but I do not see it fit for my dogs to correct themselves.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> 
> I wonder if the same could be true about all these "hard dogs." I know you want a hard dog for working, that is one that is fearless, has a good pain tolerance, and penty of drive. But if a prong collar is NECESSARY for me to train a dog, the dog is worthless to me.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: selzerAnd my dogs go nutzo when they here their tags on their collar jingling when I pick it up for a walk. They want to go go go. They do not LOVE the equipment.


nobody said there dogs love the equipment...the dogs LOVE the association!!! i mean seriously think about this...i remember when i was a kid and my dad pulled out the roll of newspaper, Fred would run, hide, or cower. that would be a way of correcting right?? yes. when i pull out my E tyson gets excited. both objects were/are used as corrections but which dog has the positive association with correction??? MINE!! 

dont bash on folks or look down your nose because we prefer to use training equipment.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DFrostThe dog still has to be trained not to pull. The only thing a choker will do is, well choke the dog when he's pulling. Regardless of the type of collar, training still has to take place. It's one of the reasons I dislike "aids" such as halti's, prongs etc. While they prevent a behavior from occurring, it doesn't really train the dog to do anything. Each can have their place but only if training is being conducted and the device isn't used as a crutch.
> 
> DFrost


I think this is huge to see this post, from this individual. From what I've gathered DFrost trains for real life situations, police, military, so to read training and teaching instead of just using something as he says, as a crutch, should make us all think. 

I could take ALL my dogs for a walk at once if I trussed them up well enough.







Picturing them in full body restraints.







Then again, this post isn't about me or my dogs! 

But for the OP, you can work on the pulling at home in an environment with no distractions, work on training and slowly introduce distractions and setting expectations as you go, where the dog learns that sticking closer to you = great things. You can also-if they are pulling towards something in particular, have them do a sit and wait, until it is either gone or they can calm enough to approach. 

Hope you come back to the thread!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I guess my problem is the one liners that say, 

"If the dog is pulling, put a prong on it."

I especially do not like that to be said to people new to the breed or with a puppy. 

I agree that dogs need to be trained. If I saw most of the people with prongs on their dogs, having them soley for training, and only for a short length of time, it would not bother me so much. 

But it seems to be way too many dogs NEVER graduate from the prong collars. And way too many owners do not bother to do training as well as using the training aids.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: selzerI guess my problem is the one liners that say,
> 
> "If the dog is pulling, put a prong on it."
> 
> ...


the pup is 8 months old. well old enough to be started on any kind of training equipment. i agree that some dogs dont graduate from the prong but in the hands of the right trainer/owner the dog will. i dont use anything for on leash walks other than a fur saver. off lead walks i use my E. when on leash walks i do bring the prong depending on where we go. i also taught the command "quite pulling" instead of telling him to heal all the time because when we are walking i want it to be relaxing for the both of us. the way i did it was when he got to the end of the lead i would give a quick and hard correction telling him to "quite pulling."


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: selzerI guess my problem is the one liners that say,
> 
> "If the dog is pulling, put a prong on it."
> 
> ...


But does it really matter? I mean, I train my dogs, way beyond what pet owners do, but I won't sit here and condemn others for not training their dogs in the same venues or to the same level of my dogs. 

When we walk, it's to stretch our legs and get some fresh air. I don't really care if my dogs pull a little bit and aren't heeling the entire way, that's not the point of our walk.

I also don't think it's fair to judge my dog's training based on what I *haven't* trained/made a priority. It seems like you would not consider my dogs good examples of the breed because they do not heel perfectly on walks. So then is it fair for me to hold your dogs to *my* standard of training? To me that's like saying a German shepherd that has never been trained in agility must not be very intelligent because it doesn't have any agility titles. Makes zero sense...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Actually, my dogs do not heel perfectly on walks either, unless I tell them too. I allow them space. I allow sniffing, forging, lagging, and stopping to view something across the way. When I say heel, I expect them to be by my side. The rest of the time, they just must not drag me down the street. I do use "No pull." I do not use a stiff correction because I rarely have any type of collar that could be used to correct with. 

To each his own, I suppose, but Sit, down, stand, come, stay, and heel seem to me something that need not be a priority to still be easily taught and used. 

I walk my dogs as often as I train my dogs, which is at most once a week for less than 20 minutes. They walk nicely without a prong collar, head collar, e-collar, harness, etc. I do not think anyone could call that much time, if that much time a training priority. I guess as each of my dogs gets only a little of my time, I tend to make it quality time. This means that we do some training, but it is all positive, and we have some fun, and we relax, we either share a treat or we sit on a bench for while too. I want to work their minds as well as their bodies when we are together. And I do not want to jerk, yank, correct, or hobble them. I just do not want pain to be a part of my quality time with my dog. 

Each day my dogs are given time to run in a field and must listen to me when I tell them to crate or kennel or come or stand (while I pull out their hair). They do not have collars or leads on. Today Rushie was quite interested in Tori who is in heat, and actively sniffing away through the fence at her pieces. I called him and he came to me the first time I called and went back into his kennel. It is amazing that this is an intact male who has been bred before and he has never experienced a prong collar or e collar or head collar or harness.


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## norske (Aug 28, 2009)

Teach the dog properly and there will be no need for choke chains, prongs, or e-collars. Rationalizations are funny things.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: norskeTeach the dog properly and there will be no need for choke chains, prongs, or e-collars. Rationalizations are funny things.



wow


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