# Malnourished puppy



## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

We just bought a 3 month old GSD 4 days ago and she only weighed 3.6 pounds when I took her to the vet. We have been feeding her puppy food for large breeds to try to get her at a healthier weight. I took her 3 days later to vet and she weighed 3.8 pounds. Her right leg is a little bent, had X-rays and nothing wrong there, vet says she has no muscle to hold her weight so that's why that is happening. We are just concerned that she is so tiny for her age. Has anyone had a problem like this or any suggestions?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

omg....3 mths and only 3.6 lbs? I hope you reported whoever you got the puppy from to AC. Send a PM to Carmspack. I'm sure she will have valuable input.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Hi, can you get some photos of your pup and post them to the board? It sounds like it could be a dwarf.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Is that possible? perhaps the age is wrong? Where did you purchase.

There is an approx. growth weight on this link

German Shepherd Growth Chart and Puppy Growth Rate and Weight

and look into this as an adjuvant to feeding - 

Seacure for Pets 100g powder by Proper Nutrition

This dog needs protein - real RAW meat re: 100% of essential amino acids (building blocks for all cells in the body) and live enzymes (in the meat) for processing. You will not get best results from a kibble. This dog likely doesn't have the ability to metabolize denatured food and synthetic vits. and minerals. PM Carmspack, she can make suggestions like goats milk (how much) and breeds GSD's as well developed a line of nutritional suppliments


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

I cant see how a puppy could still be alive at barely over 3 pounds and 3 months old. There is something medically wrong or the age is way off.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Any pics? Could she be the wrong age or a dwarf? What did the vet say about the puppy?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Dwarf or wrong age were the first two things that popped into my mind. I've heard about some people misrepresenting the age of puppies just to get rid of them. What's the vet think?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It could be a mix, too. 
Or not even a GSD. The OP has not said where he/she obtained the puppy.

Should wait before telling this OP supplements and raw diets since, if the puppy is indeed a 3lb. 3mo. GSD there's something radically wrong like a liver shunt or some such.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

We got her from a pet shop and she came with AKC papers, and they also had the date of 17 Aug 2012 and the pet store said she had been there for about 2 months before we got her.






her is a pic of her. The vet also suggested that we get stool sample to test for internal parasites, which I did and waiting on results,and get blood work to see if its a thyroid problem, doing that on Monday. Other then that she said she can't find anything wrong with her. I also did more research on the pet shop we bought her from, after the fact, and they are owned by a lady who was running a puppy mill and supposedly still buying from them, so I don't know if that is the case. She seems to eat well and is filling out more and is a very happy dog, probably because she is not at that retched pet shop anymore stuck in a cage all day. 


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

She doesn't look right 

I hope you didn't pay a bundle for her...but even if so, just love her the way she is. This dog isn't going to be a normal appearing GSD from the looks of that photo.

You should be aware that all dogs in pet stores have come from puppy mills.
I understand you'd want to 'save' her by buying her, but all you really do is support the pet store/puppy mill industry.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

I also am giving her caloquin supplement for her joints because of the bent and limping leg. And the vet has not said anything about dwarfism. 


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

She definitely does not look healthy... is she missing hair on her face as well? Hopefully she'll grow into a healthy, happy, loved pet but I wouldn't expect her to be a normal sized GSD.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

I did not know about pet stores buying from puppy mills until after the fact but we still live her just the same!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Don't add calcium, a good, high quality puppy food will have all the nutrients she needs.
To add calcium would be to throw her development off worse than it already is.
Do you know what the pet store fed her??

Even puppy chow has the correct nutrients in the correct ratio even if it's all corn and byproducts...


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

She has no missing hair on her face at all.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I enlarged and lightened the pic some.

More photos would be good 









I see under her eye, something odd, is that a weepy eye, or just how the pic looks?


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

She came with a free bag of food, but they gave it to me in a big ziplock bag so I'm going to call them and see what they were feeding and they said they fed her 1/2 a cup of food a day, which I don't think was enough.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

the vet said just weepy eye it's just a little wet.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> I enlarged and lightened the pic some.
> 
> More photos would be good
> 
> ...


Huh... I guess it just looked to me like she was missing hair around her eyes but it must just be her coloring? 

The tricky part about puppy mills is that it's not the dogs fault and they deserve a home just the same as any other dog, however by buying from these businesses you are giving them your money to produce more puppies. No one ever doesn't love their dog because of where they came from (I hope). Hopefully though, once people are educated about puppy mills, they won't support them by giving pet stores their business.

And holy cow! If they were only feeding her 1/2 a cup of food a day... no wonder she's so small... poor baby...


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

1/2 a DAY? no, not enough.

I'd feed 1 cup per meal but only a good quality - check into Blue Buffalo, I went with their formula that had grain. I like Solid Gold, as well.
We feed Kirkland signature here, but sometimes on small or malnourished dogs we go up in quality. I think Blue Buffalo (you can buy at Petco) may do well for her.

If you want to supplement, perhaps a scrambled egg (in the microwave) from time to time, yogurt (plain with all the fat, 4% milkfat) or cottage cheese (again 4% milkfat) would be good suggestions.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Oh this poor puppy. You need to talk to your Attorney general or something. That puppy should have been FREE, not even charged for. 

Her left leg is bowed out. Do you know if she was always in a tiny cage, was she in a pen she could move about much??


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## Kdrees (Nov 25, 2012)

To me it doesn't even look like a gsd ..... Is the tail normal? It looks cropped but I can't tell if may just be the picture and the position of the pup. It might be worth following up on the AKC papers....


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

She may even have broken a growth plate...her leg appears as if the growth plate has stopped growing but the long bone is still growing. It could be dwarfism but all her legs would be like that I think??


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Is that possible? perhaps the age is wrong? Where did you purchase.
> 
> There is an approx. growth weight on this link
> 
> ...


If the vet finds nothing wrong in the blood work re: liver/kidney values then I suggest going with my original advice...contact carmspack...if adding any type milk product then go with goat mil, goat yogurt...you can also buy colostrum (mother milk) product in cans I believe....

to grow properly she needs biologically appropriate raw food - NOT kibble, and NOT synthetic nutrients, rendered carcinogenic fats, GMO's and animal protein from questionable sources (4D), such as animals who died of disease, were PTS (the meat would include the euthiasia drugs), animals/cuts from that couldn't meet FDA standards for human consumption. As well these kibble formulas are all high in carbs which are not biologically available to dogs and cause spikes in insulin...this dog needs an overhaul...if you do not want to spend every other week at the vet, best to let nature w/a little help from natural suppliments do it for her...growing a dog on true raw food and bones (do premix for now) will enable her to grow properly. Natural calcium is better then manufactured...the more true you stay to the diet, the more she will benefit. 

read this link about what is wrong and why w/kibble
Cooked Vs. Raw Food


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Millions of pets do just fine on kibble, a good quality kibble can meet any dog's nutritional requirements. 
There's been quite a few folks who have tried raw feeding but had to give it up due to either the pet's intolerance, refusal to eat, or the costs alone; the OP shouldn't be made to feel as if he's harming his pet by feeding kibble. As long as it's better than Ol' Roy or Purina (who still have to meet AAFCO standards) the puppy ought to do fine.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Thank you for all the advice so far I'm going to look into all this and see how I can incorporate it.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Millions of pets do just fine on kibble, a good quality kibble can meet any dog's nutritional requirements.
> There's been quite a few folks who have tried raw feeding but had to give it up due to either the pet's intolerance, refusal to eat, or the costs alone; the *OP shouldn't be made to feel as if he's harming his pet by feeding kibble*. As long as it's better than Ol' Roy or Purina (who still have to meet AAFCO standards) the puppy ought to do fine.


 
The Op is being educated per request as noted for this thread. It is _your_ interpretation that implies that anybody elses opinon (who are trying to help) is wrong or not for the intended purposes, but solely to make a person feel bad...it is for that reason fights start on threads....you have stated what you feel will help, so have others and so have I. Please put me on ignore if my opinions bother you so much.

OP, this is a special needs dog and NO kibble will meet the requirements...the AAFCO is "bare minimum" and there is no such thing as "perfectly balanced"

I am done w/this thread...good luck


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Her right leg is a little bent, had X-rays and nothing wrong there, vet says she has no muscle to hold her weight so that's why that is happening.


We actually did have a Doberman puppy that had legs like this, but the thing was, it was bilateral. 
It had to do with the malnutrition that lasted a week or so while he was sick with parvo (he was an owner surrender as they could not afford his treatment).
I just don't know what to make of 1 leg doing it and that leads me to think something's wrong with that leg, a fracture could do something like this.

The puppy is proportionate but extremely small. If she's happy and playful other than being small (and having one wonky leg) then all else is okay...if she had something else going on, she'd act sick.

I'm curious what the fecal exams will show.

Also do you know if she had parvo while at the pet store?? It's not uncommon in those settings.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Jrhodebeck said:


> I did not know about pet stores buying from puppy mills until after the fact but we still live her just the same!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


I know you love your puppy, IMHO she's extremely lucky you bought her. I hope she'll be okay!!! 

My only suggestion would be to contact your local animal control and tell them what happened, show them photos of your pup and ask them to inspect the pups at the pet shop you bought her from ... someone should have noticed she wasn't growing like a normal GSD, that her legs were deformed looking almost like she has ricketts, etc.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Oh, and with exercise and good nutrition (a good kibble) the Dobie puppy grew up just fine. His legs came along fine. 
Which is why I wonder if your GSD puppy may have had parvo that you are unaware of.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

The X-rays showed no fractures or dysplasia of any kind or no injury that had happened to her. I am not sure if she had parvo at the pet store, I think the stool will show that, but the vet said that if she had it she would have blood in her stool or vomiting blood, which she is not so that is very good! I have to take her back to the pet store on the 9th to get her 3rd parvo shot, but I am thinking I will just go to my vet, because I do not really trust them. I do want to report this pet shop, because I went in there the other day to get her AKC papers and they had so many puppies in one cage with no food or no water and no room to move, so I think they need to be inspected because I don't think the animals are getting the care they need or deserve. How would I report them? 


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Start with Animal Control.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Maybe buy an online genetic testing kit, swap inside her mouth to see what breeds come back on that? Maybe shes a chi/GSD mix? Listen to your vet with her care, keep her on a good quailty feed kibble or otherwise. Don't over feed her bc she is small you want to make sure she can handle the amount of food she is being given even if it is several smaller meals a day. Good luck with your little pup! She will do much better with you now that you have her in your care.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

She does look a lot like a chihuahua mix. Even if she was kept in a cage and malnourished she wouldn't be that small--she would be really, really skinny too, which she's not. She doesn't really look like a gsd to me. 

I would throw out the food they gave you and never go back there. And I would definitely file a complaint against them and get the media involved. I would also get a lawyer involved and get your money back because it sounds like you'll need it to get her health again. 

Some dogs do great on kibble but I always found that when I brought a foster or new dog home with health issues it was best to make food for them and add supplements until they got better. 

Rafi didn't look too good when I brought him home but a good diet, exercise and supplements sure turned his life around for the better!


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## Kdrees (Nov 25, 2012)

That is exactly what I was thinking - terrier or chihuahua mix - if you google a chihuahua gsd mix you will find some good pictures that do kind of look like your pup - not that she possibly couldn't be purebred. If she is a purebred then my guess is that you are looking at a genetic defect like pituitary dwarfism but she will be a very special puppy no matter what 


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Would it be possible for her to be a mix, even if she is registered as a purebred GSD with AKC? That is why I have not considered that an option, I am about to get her 3 generations of pedigree after our application is processed, I don't think that is something that can be forged, but maybe it can? 


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I wonder what kind of ID they are using? maybe there was just a mix-up nd wrong papers went with the dog. Black and tan - so it must be a German Shepherd. Maybe the papers were swapped.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

They can falsify papers easily....especially if they have no concern for well being of pups, would they be honest enough to actually have the proper papers?
Is the pup identified w/ a microchip to be sure you have the right pup w/ the right papers? 

I'd get the media involved too. Play on the publics sympathy and get that place closed down.


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## Kdrees (Nov 25, 2012)

She can't be a mix and be AKC - even lets say if she came from an AKC gsd and an AKC chihuahua. Per the AKC this is called cross breeding and those dogs cannot be registered. I suggest as soon as you get the papers you call the AKC to register your dog - this will confirm the legitimacy of them. You may also want to google the pet store you got her form and the breeder or even check www.bbb.org to see if any one else has had any issues with that store.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

This is not a german shepherd puppy, or GSD mix. It is way too small for even a mix with a toy breed. At a few months old, the pup is very proportional and does not appear emaciated. The coloring is definitely GSD like but the body and conformation is toy breed, which is what the weight and size confirms. A half cup a day is the right amount for a puppy this size, it can not even physically eat 3 cups a day as people are suggesting.

The store that gave you papers for a GSD is either very dishonest or more likely had a very stupid employee. The pup will probably be 7 - 10 lbs max as an adult.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Kdrees said:


> She can't be a mix and be AKC - even lets say if she came from an AKC gsd and an AKC chihuahua. Per the AKC this is called cross breeding and those dogs cannot be registered. I suggest as soon as you get the papers you call the AKC to register your dog - this will confirm the legitimacy of them. You may also want to google the pet store you got her form and the breeder or even check www.bbb.org to see if any one else has had any issues with that store.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Those rules are for honest people ... dishonest people can (and have) registered dogs with questionable heritage by using registration papers of legit puppies that have died or been sold without papers. Of course an owner like Jrhodebeck can have a DNA test done to see if the puppy is a GSD and if it's not, then file a complaint with AKC against the breeder of record and maybe sue the pet store to get her money back.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Well there's that, but there's that leg. 
Something else is wrong. 
A toy breed would (should) have good legs anyway...


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Rerun said:


> This is not a german shepherd puppy, or GSD mix. It is way too small for even a mix with a toy breed. At a few months old, the pup is very proportional and does not appear emaciated. The coloring is definitely GSD like but the body and conformation is toy breed, which is what the weight and size confirms. A half cup a day is the right amount for a puppy this size, it can not even physically eat 3 cups a day as people are suggesting.
> 
> The store that gave you papers for a GSD is either very dishonest or more likely had a very stupid employee. The pup will probably be 7 - 10 lbs max as an adult.
> 
> ...


It was the owner of the store who gave me the papers because they just came in from the breeder and there is no other puppy in there that is close to a GSD, so I don't think there was a mix up. Maybe she is a dwarf don't know yet.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It is possible for an AKC registered bitch in heat to be bred by more than one dog. If a smaller dog got to her, she could be a mix. 

I don't know as a DNA test would solve the issue though...even purebred dogs often come up mixed on the DNA tests. 
Only if you could match the mom _and_ dad's DNA would you be able to tell.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> It is possible for an AKC registered bitch in heat to be bred by more than one dog. If a smaller dog got to her, she could be a mix.
> 
> I don't know as a DNA test would solve the issue though...even purebred dogs often come up mixed on the DNA tests.
> Only if you could match the mom _and_ dad's DNA would you be able to tell.


I have the mom and dads name and registration numbers, but I don't know if I can check that way


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## Kdrees (Nov 25, 2012)

You can search by name or registration number here

http://classic.akc.org/store/reports/dog/search/dog_search.cfm?basic=yes


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Jrhodebeck said:


> I have the mom and dads name and registration numbers, but I don't know if I can check that way
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Some breeders DNA test but probably not in a puppy mill...


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Kdrees said:


> You can search by name or registration number here
> 
> http://classic.akc.org/store/reports/dog/search/dog_search.cfm?basic=yes
> 
> ...


I just searched and her mom and dad both came back as GSD, so I don't know, just worried.


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## Kdrees (Nov 25, 2012)

You may just have to wait and see when you register her and see how that goes. The next conversation is one you need to have with your vet because if she is pure gsd then there is obviously something going on with her. And since the incidence of dwarfism is rather low, I'm still leaning more towards not being a GSD - but I would need to know more about the store where you bought her, the parents and the breeder to take any more guesses.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

If you have the name of the breeder, why don't you send them a picture of the puppy? They would certainly know! 

I have seen some pituitary dwarfs on this board and they didn't look anything like your puppy. 

I took a look at your pictures again and I wonder if she has rickets? That's what I'm seeing in her legs. Is that what your vet thought?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Merck Veterinary Manual



> Recent studies show that many homemade diets for dogs are deficient in minerals and have altered calciumhosphorus ratios. Therefore a high-quality commercial food, or one designed by a credentialed veterinary nutritionist, is recommended.


Unless they fed her a home-made diet (would be rare in a pet store setting) she shouldn't have rickets - unless she has a metabolic imbalance, and considering they said she acts normal that wouldn't be it...? 

It's confusing, for sure...


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Jrhodebeck said:


> I just searched and her mom and dad both came back as GSD, so I don't know, just worried.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


What they were suggesting earlier is that perhaps the mother is an AKC registered German Shepherd that went into heat and was bred to another AKC registered German Shepherd, but unbeknownst to the 
"breeder", another dog (Probably a chihuahua?) got to her during the time she was in heat, creating a litter of some purebred puppies and some mixed-breed puppies, but they were all registered as though the father was German Shepherd.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

"Rickets and other bone pathologies have been reported in young pigs housed indoors and fed processed feed." That would be the same circumstances for this pup.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Anitsisqua said:


> What they were suggesting earlier is that perhaps the mother is an AKC registered German Shepherd that went into heat and was bred to another AKC registered German Shepherd, but unbeknownst to the
> "breeder", another dog (Probably a chihuahua?) got to her during the time she was in heat, creating a litter of some purebred puppies and some mixed-breed puppies, but they were all registered as though the father was German Shepherd.


Is there anything that we could do then? We thought we were buying a purebred but if it turns out she is not we paid a lot of money. We still love her and want to keep her but feel that someone should have known with her low growth weight. I will talk to the vet about this possibility on Monday when I take her.


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

I think the only thing you should be worried about at this point is that she is healthy. It's disappointing, but like you said you love her and you will keep her no matter what. Right? The other stuff (reporting the store, retaining an attorney, getting your money back, etc.) you should not let go of course. Just don't make it something that you have to "worry" about. It's not worth it. What's done is done. She is your baby now regardless of her breed. Now you know better for next time. Good luck with her. She is cute. Keep us posted on her health. And I hope you do report that puppy store and it gets closed down. 


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jrhodebeck said:


> Is there anything that we could do then? We thought we were buying a purebred but if it turns out she is not we paid a lot of money. We still love her and want to keep her but feel that someone should have known with her low growth weight. I will talk to the vet about this possibility on Monday when I take her.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


You can certainly report the store for fraud. You could sue but I imagine you'll have to give the dog back. And I would report the place to AC with the conditions you describe.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

At a few months old, this dog is way too proportional to be a dwarf. This isn't a GSD. Even if a chihuahua and a GSD crossed, you would not end up with a 3.something pound puppy at a few months old. The vet would have been able to tell by the teeth if the dog was more like 6 wks and I'm certain would have told the owner that the dog was not in fact 3 months, but 6 weeks. There is no way that ANYTHING crossed with a GSD will be a proportional 3 lb puppy at 3 months old. It's not malnurished or emaciated, they only think that because it's supposed to be a GSD. It's not. Everyone has these wild crazy theories as to what has happened, but there is nothing about that puppy that says GSD, other than the color, and there are a lot of breeds with GSD coloring.

This is a toy breed and with all the toy breeds that our local petstores sell, it could likely be a cross between toy breeds. They do have a lot of leg issues, they have very tiny little bones that can easily be broken or fractured and heal incorrectly. Regarding the AKC papers, clearly there has been a mix up at the store. They gave you old papers for some reason for another dog they had that didn't go home with it's papers, maybe it died, who knows? But the papers aren't going to prove anything and the only DNA testing that is accurate is to test the parents and the pup to see if those parents produced that pup. I highly doubt the puppy millers have their dogs DNA on file, so that likely won't be an option. The other DNA tests which test breed have been proven repeatedly to be inaccurate at best, and a guess at worst.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would do a DNA test on the puppy. Contacting the 'breeder' would most likely be a waste of time, unfortunately the majority of puppies in pet stores, are usually out of puppy mills 

It's very possible the mother was bred by two different dogs.

I would start with a DNA, I would report the petstore to not only the local AC but to your states Head of Agriculture Dept. 

I would also tell the pet store that you ARE going to DNA this puppy, and since you paid ALOT of money for her/him, if the DNA comes back he's 'mixed', your taking them to court.

I would not return the puppy, and I would pay "something" for him/her, but I would want the majority of my purchase price refunded.

The puppy is very lucky to have YOU in his/her corner and every puppy deserves a home, but unfortunately I don't think this puppy is a purebred gsd He/she may not have any health issues right now, but who knows what the future holds. 

Good luck with him/her,,i would nail that petstore to the wall.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

It looks like a yorkie mix to me. Like chihuahua/yorkie or min pin and yorkie. The color is the only GSD thing about that puppy, but you can get those colors from yorkies and min pins also.

much younger puppies but still-


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> They do have a lot of leg issues, they have very tiny little bones that can easily be broken or fractured and heal incorrectly.


This is really what it seems like.
To the OP - did you ever say if all her legs were like this or just one?
We adopted out a dog some time ago that's leg went wonky like this. In the short time he was with us, he was well cared for and didn't get injured but he was some 3mos. when the family with a lot of small kids surrendered him.
His leg had apparently been fractured with that family, and had healed.

Then the leg continues to grow while the growth plate is frozen, and you get a bowed leg like that.
I think they do okay in the long run but it never looks right and is prone to arthritis. Surgery is advisable after that type fracture, but obviously the pet store never noticed (if this is the case, it may not be), so it was never addressed. 
Remember this is just a guess and could explain one limb being twisted/bowed or otherwise messed up.
If ALL the limbs are that way, something else is wrong.

Growth plate fractures


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I just had a crazy thought...on another message board, a woman had a litter of GSDs and one was an extreme runt. 
I mean, like 1/4 of the size of the other puppies. 
It could be that this is an extreme runt, as well, that puppy acted normal, I believe. 
I'd have to go back and re-read it. It seems that the puppy was proportionate too.

If I can remember where it's at, I will message you, OP.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I think this is a wrong age. This does not look like a 3 month old GSD. Maybe a very small 8 week old.

Many pet stores lie about age. They say a dog is 8 weeks when in reality it could be 5 weeks old.


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## HeyJude (Feb 2, 2011)

Anyone can and do forge papers and pedigree's. AKC does not inspect every litter. What you can do is get a DNA kit from AKC and find out if the sire is really the sire they claim. If not, AKC will do an inspection. I wouldn't expect much, but do as much as you can to get this petshop shut DOWN!


Jrhodebeck said:


> Would it be possible for her to be a mix, even if she is registered as a purebred GSD with AKC? That is why I have not considered that an option, I am about to get her 3 generations of pedigree after our application is processed, I don't think that is something that can be forged, but maybe it can?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## HeyJude (Feb 2, 2011)

The OP can contact AKC and request a DNA on the pup. All stud dogs have to have a DNA on file at AKC. If the sire is not the sire listed on file at AKC she has a lawsuit against the pet store. 


Rerun said:


> At a few months old, this dog is way too proportional to be a dwarf. This isn't a GSD. Even if a chihuahua and a GSD crossed, you would not end up with a 3.something pound puppy at a few months old. The vet would have been able to tell by the teeth if the dog was more like 6 wks and I'm certain would have told the owner that the dog was not in fact 3 months, but 6 weeks. There is no way that ANYTHING crossed with a GSD will be a proportional 3 lb puppy at 3 months old. It's not malnurished or emaciated, they only think that because it's supposed to be a GSD. It's not. Everyone has these wild crazy theories as to what has happened, but there is nothing about that puppy that says GSD, other than the color, and there are a lot of breeds with GSD coloring.
> 
> This is a toy breed and with all the toy breeds that our local petstores sell, it could likely be a cross between toy breeds. They do have a lot of leg issues, they have very tiny little bones that can easily be broken or fractured and heal incorrectly. Regarding the AKC papers, clearly there has been a mix up at the store. They gave you old papers for some reason for another dog they had that didn't go home with it's papers, maybe it died, who knows? But the papers aren't going to prove anything and the only DNA testing that is accurate is to test the parents and the pup to see if those parents produced that pup. I highly doubt the puppy millers have their dogs DNA on file, so that likely won't be an option. The other DNA tests which test breed have been proven repeatedly to be inaccurate at best, and a guess at worst.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

I am going to contact AKC today about this and I have filed a complaint with BBB and called animal control, well couldn't talk to anyone but left a message, I found out that the owner of this pet shop was an owner for another pet shop that was closed down so I'm suspicious of them.


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

If my memory is correct, stud dogs only have to have a DNA profile on record with AKC if they have been used more than three times. If this puppy were from a first, second or third litter, I am pretty certain that there does not HAVE to be a DNA profile on record. After that, I think that there has to be one on file in order to register the litter.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

I just contacted AKC and they said I have to wait until she is 6 months old to determine if she is not a purebred. 


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Sunflowers said:


> I think this is a wrong age. This does not look like a 3 month old GSD. Maybe a very small 8 week old.
> 
> Many pet stores lie about age. They say a dog is 8 weeks when in reality it could be 5 weeks old.


There is absolutely no way that a german shepherd, even a very small one, is going to weigh less than four lbs at 8 wks. Breeders can chime in here, but at 3.something lbs, a german shepherd would only be a couple of weeks old I believe.

People are hooked on this german shepherd/chihuahua cross thing, but even IF that were to happen, you are still talking about a normal sized small to medium sized dog. This dog looks at a good weight for it's size, and at that weight it qualifies as a TOY breed. No german shepherd crossed with anything would ever produce a toy sized dog.

And again, the vet would have been able to tell if this was a younger puppy by the teeth.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I would not hurt going back to the store and ask them if they happened to mix up the papers of a GSD and a black and tan small breed.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

It reminds me of a Min Pin mix.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Rerun said:


> There is absolutely no way that a german shepherd, even a very small one, is going to weigh less than four lbs at 8 wks. Breeders can chime in here, but at 3.something lbs, a german shepherd would only be a couple of weeks old I believe.
> 
> People are hooked on this german shepherd/chihuahua cross thing, but even IF that were to happen, you are still talking about a normal sized small to medium sized dog. This dog looks at a good weight for it's size, and at that weight it qualifies as a TOY breed. No german shepherd crossed with anything would ever produce a toy sized dog.
> 
> And again, the vet would have been able to tell if this was a younger puppy by the teeth.


Also, even a much younger puppy would weigh more. When I went and saw my boy at 6 weeks, the puppies were all around 10lbs. Only a newborn GSD would weigh so little, and that would be obvious.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

That puppy's forehead markings are identical to a GSD though.

I'm thinking extreme runt. 
It happened that we had a puppy, a Papillon mix, the mama gave birth to 3 puppies (this was in rescue some 8yrs. ago) 
Two were normal sized - the father was a JRT. The puppies grew up to about 12-15lb., or so.
But one of the puppies barely weighed a pound at birth. His mother pushed him away but we managed to keep him going by bottle feeding. But only 4 weeks though.
It turned out he had hydrocephalus and lived just 4 weeks before we had to put him to sleep.
He had other health issues; a cleft palate as well (which is why mama rejected him). He was just over 1lb. when he passed, he never gained much at all. 

The other situation I'm thinking of, the puppy was a GSD but was minute compared to the siblings. It did not grow along the lines of the other pups, either, and stayed very small, I'm not sure how long she lived, as I mentioned, I'd have to look it all up and right now that message board is down


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm curious if there were any other litter mates with her at the pet store. If so, what did they look like?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

HeyJude said:


> The OP can contact AKC and request a DNA on the pup. All stud dogs have to have a DNA on file at AKC. If the sire is not the sire listed on file at AKC she has a lawsuit against the pet store.


IMHO this is an EXCELLENT suggestion!!!


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

My dog was 7.2 pounds at 13 weeks. Way undersized. She was ill though and malnourished. She is still very small but very much a pure bred and healthy now. She is 5 months and weighs 25 pounds. 


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

i wonder if they got her date of birth wrong on her papers, she looks like a tiny puppy. what did your vet say about her age, i cant imagine she is 3 months old.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

I am going to the vet tomorrow and going to ask if she thinks that is her age, also got stool back and she has Giardia and who know how long she has had it. I just called the pet shop and they insist that she came in the same litter as 5 other siblings that were twice her age so I guess I will ask the vet all these questions and see what she has to say. Thanks everyone for the input and questions I should ask my vet. We are new at owning a puppy,but have 2 cats, and it is even harder with a special needs puppy, but she is getting plenty of love!


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Jrhodebeck said:


> I am going to the vet tomorrow and going to ask if she thinks that is her age, also got stool back and she has Giardia and who know how long she has had it. I just called the pet shop and they insist that she came in the same litter as 5 other siblings that were twice her age so I guess I will ask the vet all these questions and see what she has to say. Thanks everyone for the input and questions I should ask my vet. We are new at owning a puppy,but have 2 cats, and it is even harder with a special needs puppy, but she is getting plenty of love!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


I meant twice her size, but its hard for me to believe them without seeing them myself.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

As far as AKC papers go, AKC will register a litter if all the paperwork is correct. They don't inspect the litters, so as long as mom and dad are registered, of the same breed and everything is signed, the "breeder" gets the litter registration.
Now, I am not saying you don't have the correct paperwork. You got the paperwork for a GSD, like the littermates. However, its very possible the dog is not purebred, but the breeders went ahead and registered all the pups, thinking this one was just small or possibly knew it was not purebred.
We had a nice sweet older puppy come into the vet clinic. It immediately looked to me like a Sheltie Doxy cross. Short legs, long back, longer coat, but a beautiful sheltie head/ears. In talking to the people, they stated that they were sold this puppy at 8 weeks as a registered Doxy, had the AKC papers, etc. As it grew, they realized it was no way purebred. They talked to the breeder and she stated" this puppy came from a registered dam and a registered sire, both Doxys. She even sent photos of the mom and dad tied during the breeding,, the litter from birth, growing up, etc. Their puppy has some unique markings that were there from birth. Yep, this was a registered Doxy. Of course, you could see in the photos a nice sable sheltie in the background. . 
So, the bought an 8 week old registered Doxy puppy that was in fact half Sheltie, the sheltie was an intact male that ran with the rest of the dogs. She was a puppy mill of sorts.So, they did get back their money and love their little dog. 
Its very possible and I suspect,that this breeder let the GSD female get bred, or maybe didn't even realize it got bred by something else and this little puppy was from the registered female, born at the same time as the true GSD littermates and the breeder just registered the whole litter, thinking (or knowing it wasn't)it was purebred because it was black/tan like the rest of the litter, just smaller.
Not sure if you vet will be able to do much except helping you decide what this puppy is, if it isn't purebred. You will have to contact the pet shop and breeder with your doubts and push to find out if this puppy is indeed purebred and either small or has some genetic issues, or is a mix and you need to get your money back. At this point, the AKC papers show it is purebred, but unless you are able to DNA the whole litter and both parents to see if your pup is sharing the same DNA, not much you can do.
A DNA test can give mix results from just sending in your pups DNA, but the whole litter or at least testing a littermate or two and both parents will give you the true story.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Capone22 said:


> My dog was 7.2 pounds at 13 weeks. Way undersized. She was ill though and malnourished. She is still very small but very much a pure bred and healthy now. She is 5 months and weighs 25 pounds.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


 Yes, but that is still twice the size of OPs puppy, and your dog actually looks like a german shepherd and came from what was supposed to be a reputable breeder, as opposed to a petstore where who knows what she was sold breed wise since they come from mass breeding facilities.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

keep all your vet documentation, I 'believe" in some states pet stores are responsible for paying vet bills for so many hours/days after purchase.

If the puppy has giardia, well that could be something THEY will have to pay treatment for..

Did you contact your local AC yet??


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Rerun said:


> Yes, but that is still twice the size of OPs puppy, and your dog actually looks like a german shepherd and came from what was supposed to be a reputable breeder, as opposed to a petstore where who knows what she was sold breed wise since they come from mass breeding facilities.


Oh yes I agree. I don't think ops dog is GSD. I think it's a yorkie/chi mix or something like that. I was jut pointing out my dog was very small but also clearly ill and under weight. Etc.  


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> keep all your vet documentation, I 'believe" in some states pet stores are responsible for paying vet bills for so many hours/days after purchase.
> 
> If the puppy has giardia, well that could be something THEY will have to pay treatment for..
> 
> Did you contact your local AC yet??


I did contact them and they said they do random inspections there and the only problem they had with them was they were changing puppies food right when they came in and was giving puppies diarrhea but the vet said that was normal. So I to.d them about my puppy and he said that is a civil matter and to file a complaint with BBB, which I did. So they weren't very helpful I told them I was concerned about the welfare of the other animals that were in there, and he said they inspect so that was I could do was tell them. She went to the vet today and has gained 1 pound in 4 days so that is good she is putting on weight and she has to see a surgeon about her leg on Monday and see if there is something wrong with her growth plates or put a stint on her cuz she can't really walk on the one. I asked my vet about what she thought about her not being GSD she said anything was possible but it was hard to say right now and she said that she more than likely is not dwarf but she may have a thyroid issue that is causing her growth to be delayed and she said she might not be 3 months but she said she is definitely more alert and active than a 4-5 week so not sure about that yet.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Your vet should be able to tell by her teeth. There is a big difference in the teeth of a baby puppy and a 3 or 4 month old puppy. Puppies start teething between 3 and 4 months.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Jrhodebeck said:


> I did contact them and they said they do random inspections there and the only problem they had with them was they were changing puppies food right when they came in and was giving puppies diarrhea but the vet said that was normal. So I to.d them about my puppy and he said that is a civil matter and to file a complaint with BBB, which I did. So they weren't very helpful I told them I was concerned about the welfare of the other animals that were in there, and he said they inspect so that was I could do was tell them. She went to the vet today and has gained 1 pound in 4 days so that is good she is putting on weight and she has to see a surgeon about her leg on *Monday and see if there is something wrong with her growth plates or put a stint on her cuz she can't really walk on the one*. I asked my vet about what she thought about her not being GSD she said anything was possible but it was hard to say right now and she said that she more than likely is not dwarf but she may have a thyroid issue that is causing her growth to be delayed and she said she might not be 3 months but she said she is definitely more alert and active than a 4-5 week so not sure about that yet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


How to Prevent Angular Limb Deformity in Puppies

The most common angular limb deformity occurs in a puppy’s forearm, which has a two-bone system comprised of the ulna and the radius.3

If the growth plate of either of these bones is injured (usually it’s the ulna), the damaged bone will stop growing, but the other bone in the two-bone system will continue to grow.

The damaged, no-longer-growing bone acts like a rubber band, putting tension on the growing bone. This causes the healthy bone to bow, curve or rotate as it continues to develop. In some worst-case scenarios, the bone can develop all three deformities – it can bow, curve AND rotate.

Younger dogs whose bones are still growing – especially large and giant breed puppies – are at much greater risk for developing a severe deformity than older animals after a traumatic injury.

If the problem isn’t diagnosed quickly and corrected with surgery, there can be much bigger problems in the future for the injured puppy.

Abnormal limb deformities result in abnormal joint movement, which can be quite painful for the dog.

Arthritis is another common outcome, along with the inability to move normally.

If the deformity is severe and is left untreated, a dog can actually lose all function in the affected limb.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Nigel said:


> How to Prevent Angular Limb Deformity in Puppies
> 
> The most common angular limb deformity occurs in a puppy’s forearm, which has a two-bone system comprised of the ulna and the radius.3
> 
> ...


Thank you that was very informative I didn't know that that couldn't be seen on X-rays so maybe that's what it is. She doesn't seem to be in pain at all but maybe she is, I guess I will find out when she sees the surgeon on Monday.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

The growth plate is difficult to detect a fracture in; when my son broke his at 13yrs. or so, the doctor couldn't actually _see_ a fracture; he said that it's rather like a dinner plate that's all in pieces, anyway, so if there was indeed a fracture, and he didn't cast it, it could cause all that damage potentially, so my son was in a cast for 8 weeks that summer.

If that puppy was held and dropped, it may have limped a bit for a day or two and then seemed okay. If that's what's going on, it could have happened any number of ways. 

I'm sorry you're dealing with all of this. It's hard enough being a new puppy parent without all this going on, too


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Well she went in for surgery today. The vet said that one of her growth plates closed early causing one bone to continue to grow while the other one is not. He said that it was due to some traumatic injury probably at the pet shop because we didn't do it and he said it looks like it has been going on longer than we have had her. So hopefully she gets better soon and can lead a some what normal life!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

poor puppy Yeppie, I'd be taking that petstore to small claims court to atleast cover your vet bills.

She is very lucky to have you,,hope she comes thru surgery ok.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

^^^^ What Diane said. Document everything. And call AC again. That puppy had an injury and no medical care. That would be neglect....


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Ditto...call a/c with the vet report and they can view it themselves.
I figured this was what was going on...of course someone @ the pet store, either one of the people who work there, or a customer, injured that puppy.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Ditto...call a/c with the vet report and they can view it themselves.
> I figured this was what was going on...of course someone @ the pet store, either one of the people who work there, or a customer, injured that puppy.


She is having the X-rays right before she has the surgery so the vet can see exactly what he needs to do to fix the problem(s), it might be both legs now, which is very expensive. I looked into small claims court here and emailed an animal attorney to see what we would need to do or if she would be able to help. But I will have to wait until she is done with her surgery and the vet calls and lets me know exactly what he found. This surgery is 2400-4500 depending on if it is one leg or two. So we will definitely be pursuing some kind of legal action because this is not our fault, and the pet shop was negligent with her and then there is also the fact that a couple of the vets I have taken her to is pretty sure she is not purebred, and we paid for a purebred, so we will pursue that as well. She is a wonderful happy puppy and don't want to get rid of her and I am willing to do what it takes to fix her because I am not sure many people would. We just feel like we were frauded by them and will let them know.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> We just feel like we were frauded by them and will let them know.


I agree...but this is why it's so critical to not buy from pet stores. You can now educate others on how horrible it is.
Every time they take money out of people's pockets, they have more incentive to stay in business.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> I agree...but this is why it's so critical to not buy from pet stores. You can now educate others on how horrible it is.
> Every time they take money out of people's pockets, they have more incentive to stay in business.


Yeah, I know that now, wish I would have before, but still glad we have her  even with her gimpy leg


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Jrhodebeck said:


> She is having the X-rays right before she has the surgery so the vet can see exactly what he needs to do to fix the problem(s), it might be both legs now, which is very expensive. I looked into small claims court here and emailed an animal attorney to see what we would need to do or if she would be able to help. But I will have to wait until she is done with her surgery and the vet calls and lets me know exactly what he found. This surgery is 2400-4500 depending on if it is one leg or two. So we will definitely be pursuing some kind of legal action because this is not our fault, and the pet shop was negligent with her and then there is also the fact that a couple of the vets I have taken her to is pretty sure she is not purebred, and we paid for a purebred, so we will pursue that as well. She is a wonderful happy puppy and don't want to get rid of her and I am willing to do what it takes to fix her because I am not sure many people would. We just feel like we were frauded by them and will let them know.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Well, although it would seem reasonable to expect the pet store to pay for out of pocket expences, about the only amount you might get is the price you paid. In fact you might not even get that because you kept the "product", if it had died within a few days, you may have been able to get your purchase price back, but you made the choice to keep the dog and along with any dog, from a breeder, a gift, a rescue, a freebe, when you take on the responsibility of pet ownership, you can expect costs with that.

This was a retail business transaction...you return the pup, you get your money back. You keep the pup...S.O.L.

May sound harsh, however, trying to prevent you from getting rooked by a lawyer next. 

So have x-rays shown an issue with the other leg?


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

I feel so bad for you and her. She is blessed to have you. Poor puppy. I'm so glad that you will love her and take care of her. But definitely take action against the pet shop. She didn't deserve this and neither did you. I'm sorry that you are going through this. 


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Well, although it would seem reasonable to expect the pet store to pay for out of pocket expences, about the only amount you might get is the price you paid. In fact you might not even get that because you kept the "product", if it had died within a few days, you may have been able to get your purchase price back, but you made the choice to keep the dog and along with any dog, from a breeder, a gift, a rescue, a freebe, when you take on the responsibility of pet ownership, you can expect costs with that.
> 
> This was a retail business transaction...you return the pup, you get your money back. You keep the pup...S.O.L.
> 
> ...


Not sure yet, she is having the X-rays today, well even if we can't take action for the leg, she is most likely not purebred, which we can take action on. And we were only able to return her after 72 hours and it had to be life threatening condition, which this isn't and there is no way to know after 72 hours because the tests she has had to have had to go to the mainland labs, because they don't do that here, but whatever the outcome is I want her have a somewhat normal and happy life. I have had worked in the legal field for a few years and have friends that are attorneys so I have been consulting them first to see what if anything can be done, so I don't have to pay an attorney right away.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

gatorbytes, don't you watch Judge Judy? ))

I've seen lots of cases where sellers were made to pay for vet bills. No they usually don't get the purchase price of the animal back if they keep it, however, I would think in THIS case, IF the puppy is truly not a purebred, I'm sure they would get back "something" of the purchase price..

It isn't like they've had this puppy for a couple months, she's had issues the minute she came out of the petstore....


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> gatorbytes, don't you watch Judge Judy? ))
> 
> I've seen lots of cases where sellers were made to pay for vet bills. No they usually don't get the purchase price of the animal back if they keep it, however, I would think in THIS case, IF the puppy is truly not a purebred, I'm sure they would get back "something" of the purchase price..
> 
> It isn't like they've had this puppy for a couple months, she's had issues the minute she came out of the petstore....


My husband even said if we could keep her, and then get an actual purebred GSD for free, since that is what we thought we were getting he would be fine with that, but he is in Japan for training for the Army, so I haven't been able to speak to him at all, so he doesn't even know about her surgery yet and the price, so he might feel different now!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I wouldn't trust the petstore to 'give me' a purebred gsd at this point


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

JakodaCD OA said:


> *gatorbytes, don't you watch Judge Judy? *))
> 
> I've seen lots of cases where sellers were made to pay for vet bills. No they usually don't get the purchase price of the animal back if they keep it, however, I would think in THIS case, IF the puppy is truly not a purebred, I'm sure they would get back "something" of the purchase price..
> 
> It isn't like they've had this puppy for a couple months, she's had issues the minute she came out of the petstore....


That's what I was thinking of. 
Of course they need to pay the vet bills; the puppy was damaged on their watch.
The fact she was sold as a purebred and she's very obviously...well, something (either sick or not a purebred) else, is only icing on the cake.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> gatorbytes, don't you watch Judge Judy? ))
> 
> I've seen lots of cases where sellers were made to pay for vet bills. No they usually don't get the purchase price of the animal back if they keep it, however, I would think in THIS case, IF the puppy is truly not a purebred, I'm sure they would get back "something" of the purchase price..
> 
> It isn't like they've had this puppy for a couple months, she's had issues the minute she came out of the petstore....


LOL...I love JJ, I have seen episodes re: dogs, but never related to pet store...

And I know it would seem reasonable to expect something back, but this wasn't a transaction w/a breeder. It was a retail store...I mean if you went and bought a red blouse, they bag it, you took it home and it was blue, You return it if you want a red one - red is not in stock, the option is to keep the blue or get your money back.

Retail sales.

Trust me I am furious with the pets store for all the reasons surrounding this poor pup. But at least he has new lease on life.

I would be thrilled for the OP to win against them, but I doubt anything will come of it.

Now on the other hand, if they can find a way to imply (w/legal demand letter) w/o ending up on the other end of a defamation case, that this will go public....IDK...this is fraught with holes


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> That's what I was thinking of.
> Of course they need to pay the vet bills; the puppy was damaged on their watch.
> The fact she was sold as a purebred and she's very obviously...well, something (either sick or not a purebred) else, is only icing on the cake.


It doesn't change that they still made the choice to keep the dog and foot the expence...the leg was clearly damaged, they could have returned it the same day on that alone


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Jrhodebeck said:


> My husband even said if we could keep her, and then get an actual purebred GSD for free, since that is what we thought we were getting he would be fine with that, but he is in Japan for training for the Army, so I haven't been able to speak to him at all, so he doesn't even know about her surgery yet and the price, so he might feel different now!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


I'm sorry, but now that you know how they operate, to do this would be to sentence yourself with not one but two sick dogs...if you want a purebred GSD, go through a reputable breeder :thumbup:

GB - the dog was represented as many things it was not. Only upon coming here did they realize anything was wrong.
As the tides turn against pet stores/puppy mills (the pet store is the outlet for the puppy mill) and more awareness comes about, yes indeed I think a good judge would be willing to slap this particular pet stores hands and then some, for misrepresenting that poor pup.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I see your point, but I still think the OP has a really good case ..

My example would be, you go to the store and pay 500 bucks for a Vera Wang jacket, you get it home and find out it's not really Vera Wang..but I WANT that jacket Take em to court and may end up paying what the 'knock off' is worth vs the Vera Wang

I think it will be EASIER for them to go after a petstore and 'win' vs a breeder..I think the OP said the store owner had another store that was shut down? had problems? So it sounds like they aren't to ethical to begin with..

I dunno, you can't charge 1500 bucks, (just throwing out a number there), for a GSD and get it home and find out it's not a gsd..but who knows, Maybe she IS a gsd)


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> I'm sorry, but now that you know how they operate, to do this would be to sentence yourself with not one but two sick dogs...if you want a purebred GSD, go through a reputable breeder :thumbup:
> 
> GB - the dog was represented as many things it was not. Only upon coming here did they realize anything was wrong.
> As the tides turn against pet stores/puppy mills (the pet store is the outlet for the puppy mill) and more awareness comes about, yes indeed I think a good judge would be willing to slap this particular pet stores hands and then some, for misrepresenting that poor pup.


Can hope.
If anything they may have the misrepresenting, but the onus is on them to prove (and those DNA tests are full of mistakes too, not sure if considered proof enough), and to prove fraud (?), again IDK...the pet store had papers for the dog...

I think a legal letter perhaps - a fishing expedition, have them show their cards.

At least the OP has legal background and free (hopefully) trusworthy advice...although if diff. legal depts. (like a real estate lwyer isn't going to know)...would have to source case law and find that have won in same type scenario...lots of work, time, money.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I see your point, but I still think the OP has a really good case ..
> 
> My example would be, you go to the store and pay 500 bucks for a Vera Wang jacket, you get it home and find out it's not really Vera Wang..but I WANT that jacket Take em to court and may end up paying what the 'knock off' is worth vs the Vera Wang
> 
> ...


Perhaps name the breeder in lawsuit too, then someone is going to pony up when both are at threat of being shut down, discovered, charged (hopefully)...If the pet store has papers and sold the dog legally via receipt, then the breeder may be held accountable for misrepresentation.

I think that if anything that could come out of this, AT LEAST, have a puppy mill shut down. This cannot be walked away from, but still don't think they have much chance of recovery of expences.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Oh a judge can see that's not a GSD puppy.
Speaking of Judge Judy, a guy sued a "breeder" from Yakima, WA for selling him a "teacup" Chihuahua that was over 10lb. 
JJ ruled in the guy's favor because it was clearly not a "teacup" dog, although we rescue these Chihuahuas all the time and they are likely purebred dogs, they just...aren't well-bred dogs of course!!

I think in this case, the pup's size would tell all.

Plus they'll get heartrending pics of the puppy in a cast, I'm sure...


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> It doesn't change that they still made the choice to keep the dog and foot the expence...the leg was clearly damaged, they could have returned it the same day on that alone


She didn't show any signs of deformed leg until after the 72 hours (which was the return policy), the vet said it can take weeks for it to show because you don't see it until the one bone starts to grow longer than the other. We would have not bought her if she had a deformed leg. It only started showing on X-ray today, when we had one done on last Tuesday its was showing normalty.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Jrhodebeck said:


> She didn't show any signs of deformed leg until after the 72 hours (which was the return policy), the vet said it can take weeks for it to show because you don't see it until the one bone starts to grow longer than the other. We would have not bought her if she had a deformed leg. It only started showing on X-ray today, when we had one done on last Tuesday its was showing normalty.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


That reads insensitively (my quoted part), wasn't meant to...just playing devils' advocate.

I'd love for you to be able to stick it to them. Puppy is lucky to have been found by you


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

still think it's a good case, especially with your vet saying it could take weeks to show up,,hope her surgery went well


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Well she is home from surgery and doing well. She doesn't even need to wear the e collar because she doesn't even mess with her stitches which is very good. The vet said her after X-rays of her elbow look great compared to what they looked like prior. You wouldn't even be able to tell she had surgery since she is her normal self! I take her back next Thursday to get X-rays done again and get stitches removed. I just hope she has to only have the one surgery and not multiple. 


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

glad she's doing well, we OF COURSE need MORE pictures of the little squirt ))


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Here is Elka and her arm, sorry for the darkness.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Aw she's so cute. I lightened the pic for you a bit.
I dunno, she looks pretty SHEPHERD to me


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Elka's sure a lucky pup to have gotten such a dedicated and loving owner as you are!!!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

aww poor little thing, she looks so sweet and I agree she's very very lucky you got her


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

years ago I was in a pet store that sold pups and there was an obviously Malamute pup that the sales person was trying to sell to a couple as a registered Collie..Rare color and markings!! AND when I told the people it was definitely NOT a collie the store clerk said they had papers to prove it was pure collie!!! Dumb people bought the puppy, and I happened to be out walking my dogs one day when they pulled up and showed me their Malemute teenager, shocking their registered collie was in fact a hairy 100 pound sled dog, but they loved him...

Screwed up/lost papers and dumb clerk or just a scam artist I don't know, I do know I showed the purchasers from Can Annual magazine while in the store pics of both breeds and their pups, but they believed the clerk knew and was honest...Buyers beware


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

Awww. She's so cute. I'm glad the surgery went well. ?


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

She is one lucky puppy and totally cute too, whatever breed she is. Hopefully it is smooth sailing from now on.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Adorable name! I hope she knows how absolutely lucky she is with you in her life. Thank you for your generosity to this helpless cutie!


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Here are recent pictures of Elka, she is 4 months old now and a little over 20 pounds. She is still small for her age but she is looking more shepherd now. 


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

Wow! Is that really her? She looks so different. Looks much healthier! You've done a great job with her. She's adorable. 


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

she looks soooo much better !


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## Kdrees (Nov 25, 2012)

I was just wondering the other day how she was doing- keep us updated!! She looks great 


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Jrhodebeck said:


> View attachment 27506
> View attachment 27514
> 
> 
> Here are recent pictures of Elka, she is 4 months old now and a little over 20 pounds. She is still small for her age but she is looking more shepherd now. http://www.petguide.com/mobile


She looks AWESOME!!

You guys have done a great job caring for her. It looks like everything is going good with her bones.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

She does look great!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Same dog??? She looks great. Congratulations on saving her life. Everyone who had her before you ought to be prosecuted.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

wow, what a difference, she looks like she is 2 month old and she looks healthy. How did your husband take it when you told him the expenses?


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## OffgridAlex (Dec 11, 2012)

I am sorry you are going through this and I hope you and your lovely dog can be happy together.


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

She looks great  She reminds me of my old kelpie cross actually 

So glad you got her healthy!!


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## ankittanna87 (Nov 20, 2012)

Jrhodebeck said:


> View attachment 23561
> 
> 
> Here is Elka and her arm, sorry for the darkness.
> ...


LOL.. 8 days after the post started we finally get her name? 

I'm so glad she's looking good! Excellent job with her! And I think she's looking sherpherdy.. Will u still do the DNA test at 6 months? I don't understand this? Why 6 months? DNA doesn't change.. So what is the difference if u do it at 6 months, 6 days, 6 weeks, 6 years??


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

julie87 said:


> wow, what a difference, she looks like she is 2 month old and she looks healthy. How did your husband take it when you told him the expenses?


He wasn't too happy but he wanted her to be healthy so he is happy with the results now. She hashed to go for X-rays every week since the surgery and this one tomorrow should determine if she is good to go or will need more surgery. Last X-ray showed her growth plate open, when before it was closed, so we are hoping for the best tomorrow because I don't want to have to put her through anything else. She is actually a normal puppy now, playing and going on walks. So we are extremely happy with the outcome so far! 


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

So the vet said that her growth plate is still open and arm growing. He can't explain why it closed and then opened because usually that doesn't happen, but we are both happy with the results. He wants to see her in a couple months to make sure, but he is pretty sure we are outbid the woods. She is a normal puppy now and we couldn't be happier, she started at 3.6 pounds and is growing rapidly now. She is 22 pounds now and is expected to be around 75. Vet is now convinced she is a german shepherd now and is growing to be a beautiful one. I'm just glad we could get her and get her healthy!






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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

She's looking more GSD in every picture  
If you get the chance could you take some outside for us all so we can see her better ??

She's so lucky you bought her and are looking after her well!!! That's a massive weight gain already!


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Her ears are even coming up already!!!  (clapping)


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Here are some outside pics, she moves too quick for me to get better ones, but will put more up when I get so e.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

awww she looks so much better,,hey whatever happened with the petstore you got her from?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Wow! She looks great


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> awww she looks so much better,,hey whatever happened with the petstore you got her from?


Oh I finally got a response from them about the BBB complaint yesterday, (I put the complaint in almost 2 months ago)and the pet store said that they hand fed her steak,chicken, peanut butter and cheese and she would just not grow. They also took extra good care of her because of her size. They claim they took her to vet several times because they were concerned with her size and they would take her out and play but they just couldn't get her to grow. All of that is a lie, 3 days after we had her she already gained 2 pounds, so I don't know how we magically made her grow when they couldn't. I've talked to animal control about them and they swear they do random inspections and they always pass them. I think animal control is lazy and they didn't even seem concerned when I told them what was going on. So I guess all I can do is let other people know about them and not to go there.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

You did an incredible job with her. Congratulations with sticking it out and giving her a chance.


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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

The transformation of the pup is amazing! Keep up the good work! Its always nice to see people put forth an effort to save these beauties good on ya!


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## Muneraven (Sep 4, 2012)

I am so glad this lovely pup ended up with someone who really loves her and saved her life!

You know, while it is *always* best to do research and get a healthy dog, sometimes our naive mistakes can still turn out with happy endings. Of course it is rewarding to have a wonderful, healthy dog. But it is rewarding to give a good and happy life to a dog who might not have had one otherwise, too. I say this as the mom of a 14 year old dog who NOBODY wanted as a pup . . .she has been the best dog ever.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

For anyone who is still following this, Elka is doing great now. She is 6 months and 35 pounds. She is still small for her age but her leg is pretty normal now and she is a normal puppy playing and acting crazy. I am sure that she is a GSD now just a small one, which is fine with us as we love her no matter what!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Awww, so glad she's thriving!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

she looks great !!!


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

outstanding. you, husband and vet did an outstanding job!


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Wow, incredible difference. You all did an amazing job!


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

She looks great and definitely more and more like a GSD! What a cutie! I'm so glad that she ended up with a family who took such wonderful care of her. She looks very happy and healthy now. Thanks for the update! I think we need some more pictures though...


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## AkariKuragi (Dec 19, 2011)

It's amazing what undernourishment will do to puppies. All these people who swore up and down that she wasn't purebred... XD A local rescue recently took in a malnourished weimaraner pup that had leg deformities due to lack of proper nutrition and was waaaay under the proper weight and size for her age. After a short while in their care with proper food the transformation was amazing. Your pup reminds me a lot of her. Glad she is doing better. : ) She's turning into a very pretty girl!


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

Wow! We need more updates on this great girl!

When my Pup came home at 4 months, she was 40 lbs. So Elka isn't too too far off. Though I doubt she'll grow to be 70. My pup stopped at 60.


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Here are some pictures I took today at the dog park.
















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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

What a great change!! . It's a nice testament to what a difference love and proper care can make


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

Jrhodebeck said:


> Here are some pictures I took today at the dog park.
> 
> View attachment 43626
> View attachment 43634
> ...


wow! What a difference!

Though I still can't believe she's already 6 months old! She looks like what Pup did at 4 months. 

Either way, glad to see her thriving!


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

marshies said:


> wow! What a difference!
> 
> Though I still can't believe she's already 6 months old! She looks like what Pup did at 4 months.
> 
> Either way, glad to see her thriving!


I know she doesn't look 6 months. Others I see at the park at her size are usually 4 months. She still gains about 3-4 pounds a week so she will still get bigger but she won't be huge, which is fine with us!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

she looks GREAT !


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

She is just adorable. You have done an AMAZING job with her. What a very fortunate girl she is.


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## BMWHillbilly (Oct 18, 2012)

Absolutely gorgeous! she is one lucky little girl to have you as mom! Bless you for taking her in and giving her the love she deserves. :wub:


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Wow, she is so lucky to have you. I missed the original post but her outcome could have been so much worse. It is a shame they are still in business, though.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

You guys have done an amazing job with her care!! She looks awesome!!!


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

She is adorable! :wub: And so lucky to be taken care of so well by you and your family!


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## hchorney1 (Mar 5, 2012)

What a huge difference from when you got her! 

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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

I just wanted to post 2 more pictures of Elka because she just got these taken at Petco. 


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Awww cute photos, especially the second one


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

awwwww so cute !! She looks great!


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

Wow!!!!! I have not been on for a while but I can't believe that is the same dog. I saw her when you first got her and many believed she wasn't really a GSD because of how tiny she was. What you have done with her is amazing! She looks great! And is beautiful! 


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## Curtis (Jun 9, 2013)

This is a great story. 

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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Just an update on Elka, she will be a year in 2 days and she is doing great! We found out she has pretty bad hip dysplasia but she has been on Cosequin for her whole life so that has helped. She also has received some adiquon shots but the vet said to start saving now because she will most likely need atonal hip replacement. It does not slow her down now, I can see it is harder for her to get up but she runs and plays with no problems. Anyone have any natural suggestions? She gets duck jerky also with glucosamine but I want to try other things as well. Thanks!


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Wow! Look at her! She looks great. Glad she ended up with you. You may want to post another thread in health section, I'm sure someone will have have some suggestions for you.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

She's beautiful! What a great job you've done with her!


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## vjt555 (Nov 14, 2003)

Oh my. I went from page 1 straight to page 17. She hit the right home..


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

Amazing job! How lucky she is to have a home with such great parents. 

Jelpy


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I too had to look the whole thread. What an amazing and encouraging story of love and care. Thanks for that, though the story has not ended yet. This thread needs to be redirected to anyone considering purchasing from a Pet Store 

Just out of curiosity, how much does she weight now?


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## MiaMoo (Apr 6, 2013)

What an incredibly lucky girl. She's absolutely stunning!


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## Mary&Stella (Jan 1, 2011)

page 1 to 18 in one day, and at work !! an amazing story of love and devotion !
Beautiful girl !!!


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

Catu said:


> I too had to look the whole thread. What an amazing and encouraging story of love and care. Thanks for that, though the story has not ended yet. This thread needs to be redirected to anyone considering purchasing from a Pet Store
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how much does she weight now?


She weighs 53 pounds now, which is still small but she pulls and is strong as a 90 pound dog!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

she is looking great! So glad YOU got her


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## NoVAGSDGuy (Mar 7, 2011)

Jrhodebeck said:


> She weighs 53 pounds now, which is still small but she pulls and is strong as a 90 pound dog!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to comment that I rescued my girl at just over a year old, and she was 53.5 pounds. And looked similar to yours where her ears were to big on her body, but at about age 2-2.5 she settled in her adult weight of 70.5 pounds and you couldn't tell she was ever malnourished. (though most people still think she is small, lol)

Good job on saving her.


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## brightspot (Apr 18, 2013)

:hugs: Hugs for you and the pup. You did good!


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## Jrhodebeck (Nov 29, 2012)

I just wanted to share another picture of her now. Even though she was diagnosed with hip dysphasia at the age of 7 months, I have been giving her supplements and exercise and you can't even tell from this picture that she has it!









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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

she looks great, and also looks like HD isn't slowing her down any


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Love seeing these updates, she looks great!


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Such a nice thread to see she thrived and found a great home.


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