# Issues with 3yo GS and 6 month old baby



## Tbrady37 (Nov 9, 2017)

So, I’m gonna start by telling you that Rumple has simple obedience training, but has always had an issue of sorts with women. We got him at 8 weeks old, so he has never been abused but he does not listen to me like he does my husband, sometimes not at all. He’s an overall good dog but he has always pushed his boundaries with me, that no amount of time, rewarding, or discipline has helped. And it tears my nerves up.
He gets walked 4-5 times a day for 15-20 minutes at a time, we play with him multiple times a day, he’s fed 2-3 times a day, always has water, we keep toys and bones for him, etc. He is the kind of dog that can play for 2hours, take a 5minute break and be right back at it 100%. He is even kennel trained, and that used to be his safe space.
That being said, it has gotten SO much worse since I was pregnant and even worse when my son was born(April2017) My husband and I have worked with him day in and day out for over a year trying to get him to be easier, trying to get him to listen, play easier in the house, etc. but it seems that no amount of positive rewarding or discipline will get him to slow down around Grayson. Rumple gets too close to his face, nips at him, has taken the baby’s toys while they were in his hands, has pulled blankets from my son. He also runs around him at full speed with regard to where the baby is, has kicked him, scratched him while jumping over him,. Pretty much anything you can think if, he’s done it, except attacking him. 
I’m just scared for the time it goes from rough housing to attacking. To me, he seems intimidated and jealous of my son, but he gets no less attention or time with us than he did before.
I’m open to ideas of what to do, because I’m at my wits end. I cannot afford a behavioral trainer... but something has to change or I will have to rehome Rumple for my sons safety and my sanity.


----------



## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I have a 6 month old baby (I think our sons were born in the same month), a two-year-old, and two GSDs. We haven't had any problems. I'm just a pet owner, and so I am not qualified to say if your dog is just exuberant and disrespectful, or if he is potentially aggressive. I think only a real trainer who sees your dog and baby interact in person can tell you that. If you are going to consider keeping the dog I think you need to work on your handling/training skills so that the dog respects you as well he does your husband. I think that would require hiring a trainer, and if you are unable or unwilling to do that, re-homing the dog is possibly the best option, as much as I hate to say that. If you are worried for the baby's safety, please keep them apart. I'm not sure how the dog is able to get close enough to the baby's face to nip at it, but that does not need to happen. Keep them in different rooms if you need to. And don't let them alone together ever.


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Sorry to hear you're having these problems, but I'm with you on this one, if you can't afford a good GSD trainer, and the dog does not listen, I'd rehome him before your child gets hurt!


----------



## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Above all the baby's safety is the priority. I can't imagine my 3 year old girl not listening to me because I'm a woman. To me it's crazy at this age this dog gets away with behaving like a brat. Serious training with a good trainer is needed if you are going to keep him. Even if your dog doesn't deliberately hurt your child, he can certainly seriously hurt him by accident. Keep them separate at all time is my advice.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

based on your post, I would rehome him asap. And before he bites, otherwise, no rescue will take him. Recently a GSD killed a young baby.


----------



## Tbrady37 (Nov 9, 2017)

Well, to explain the nipping and being in the face, we try to let them both hang out in the living room together with us. But Grayson is at the age that he wants to be in the floor or in his jumper. Of course, if I'm sitting in the floor with them, Rumple will pace around us and leave the baby alone. But if I get up to get a drink, or if Grayson is in his jumper in the kitchen and my back is turned, Rumple will get too close and lcik&nip at Grayson's face or nudge him around. 
And it's not for lack if wanting to get a trainer, we've been saving but everytime I think we're finally going to have enough money, something happens... like my husband's surgery last month.


----------



## Tbrady37 (Nov 9, 2017)

I agree, and I do my absolute best. I do everything my husband does that gets Rumple to listen to him. ****, we trained him together. But Rumple just does not listen to females very well. He'll sit or stay or back off when told, but not quickly. More like "well I guess" kind of thing.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hmm ... it's got nothing to do with your girly voice??? When I had my troubles with Rocky, the less I said to him the better.
Sit/Stay/Place/Rocky (for recall) and OK (that was the big one) and the occasional "Good Boy" was just about as much "communication as we had for a bit of time. We spent quite a bit of time "Walking" in silence together for quite a while ... worked out fine. 

I don't have kids so bare that in mind but "problem dogs" all seem to have a lot of factors in common. Two of which "always" seem to be "the dog free roams in the home" and the owners can't walk them??? And by and large most issues start at home. If that's not you ... then never mind. 

But I will "assume" that you fell there must be something you can do to start making changes??? I came up with a lot of my own solutions for my most of my issues. All pretty basic stuff but things I'd never heard of before??? But by large if you have a GSD with problems and you don't know where to else to look, you could start here.:
Leerburg | Introducing Dogs & Babies

Leerburgh, tends to be a bit "extreme" in a few things he recommends but it would be a reasonable starting point. Welcome aboard sorry your having issues.


----------



## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

If your dog isn't respecting you, I'm guessing your leadership skills need developing. Developing leadership skills takes a paradigm shift in your thinking, coupled with diligence and discipline. Your first priority though, would be the safety of your child. 


Here is an extract of some notes I keep on my phone. 

Leadership is an attitude, a state of mind. Leaders are fair, kind and consistent teachers.

Leaders lead with their posture, their eyes, their voice and most of all with their breathing. Did you know that dogs recognize the one with the slowest heart rate as the leader? That's the one who will be calmest under pressure.

Leadership is a grossly misunderstood concept. Leadership is often associated with words like 'dominance', 'alpha', 'authority', 'respect' and 'challenge'. Rarely, if ever, is it associated with the word 'trust'.

Do your own research, the process of research will be the start of building your leadership skills, rather than just passively reading an online post.


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Tbrady37 said:


> I agree, and I do my absolute best. I do everything my husband does that gets Rumple to listen to him. ****, we trained him together. But Rumple just does not listen to females very well. He'll sit or stay or back off when told, but not quickly. More like "well I guess" kind of thing.


Some dogs are born automatically respectful of kids. Some aren't. Because he isn't very respectful with you either, I'd say no contact with your son and life with you, very managed. I would be very careful to never have you in a position with him of having to stop something or enforce anything. Its not the same as locking him away, but there's just separation from things. Brush him, feed him, play with him, anything you can do where he's going to comply or behave with you. If you had someone to help you in person, maybe you could do some things a little different, but in this case I think avoiding the problems is safer.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Tbrady37 said:


> Of course, if I'm sitting in the floor with them, Rumple will pace around us and leave the baby alone. But if I get up to get a drink, or if Grayson is in his jumper in the kitchen and my back is turned, Rumple will get too close and lcik&nip at Grayson's face or nudge him around.


Are you serious?? Nipping equals biting and 'in your face' is very pushy and challenging behavior. He can kill that baby in a flash of a second and it won't be his fault as you have been warned; he showed you. No way should they even be on the same level, let alone you turning your back to him. He is like a loaded gun. In 2002 a Pomeranian killed a 3 month old baby, because the sitter 'turned his back'.
If something happens to this baby, you will be totally responsible for the consequences of having a dangerous dog around a baby. I know some of you will frown upon this post but I have had enough of baby's getting mauled and dogs put down just because people don't see the dog for who or what they are.
And it is nonsense that Rumple won't listen to females because it is a female; he won't listen to people who don't provide leadership. It is not a gender issue so that can never be an excuse if he injures or kills your baby.


----------



## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

Have you watched videos on youtube to help you learn to be a better leader for Rumple?
I would also think one long walk with plenty of training involved would be better than 5 short walks, it would tire him out more.
I think your husband should take a back seat and you should do all the training and lots of it from now on. Training and fun games and grooming all help build your bond with your dog.
I would not have that dog anywhere near my child until I knew for certain he would listen to my every command.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> Are you serious?? Nipping equals biting and 'in your face' is very pushy and challenging behavior. He can kill that baby in a flash of a second and it won't be his fault as you have been warned; he showed you. No way should they even be on the same level, let alone you turning your back to him. He is like a loaded gun. In 2002 a Pomeranian killed a 3 month old baby, because the sitter 'turned his back'.
> If something happens to this baby, you will be totally responsible for the consequences of having a dangerous dog around a baby. I know some of you will frown upon this post but I have had enough of baby's getting mauled and dogs put down just because people don't see the dog for who or what they are.
> And it is nonsense that Rumple won't listen to females because it is a female; he won't listen to people who don't provide leadership. It is not a gender issue so that can never be an excuse if he injures or kills your baby.


Oh I'll not frown on this post??? Dogs/puppies with "people issues" are serious business! ANd one can't afford to get it wrong "once!" Still "Crap Happens!" And the best preparation for the "Unexpected" is a well trained dog! Been there done that ... and it happened with a "Toddler" as a matter of fact. 

And Rocky under carefully controlled conditions had a proven dislike of "Toddlers!" I don't have kids, so whatever?? Still ... as I say "Crap Happens???" And one day an unexpected "Toddler" showed up at a clients house with Grandma??? It's another story but bottom line, when Rocky was in an out of site place and the "Toddler (Grandma fell asleep)" found him outside out back in "Place??" The toddler "tried" to approach him and "Rocky" broke "Place" and "Walked away!" I did not that specific behaviour but I did train him not to be biting the crap out of people by, showing him what I wanted and how I expected him to behave. But as I say ... "Crap Happens!" And I was not there so the call was his??? And when to his default behaviour with no "Daddy" around??? I don't bite ... sooo, I'll walk away. 

But that has to be taught and "leerburg??" Well he's a bit extreme and I think his approach is pretty much, "this is the baby, dog keep your distance!"

At anyrate it can be done and one has to start somewhere?? The how is not that much of a mystery I feel. But the X-factor, that is that most likely this dog is one that will require "constant vigilance???" 

Once a dog shows you who they are, it's best to believe them. My Band Dawg and my Boxer, Luv'ed people and kids! I never gave intros to people or kids a second thought with them. But my GSD, unknown people were "always" my first thought! If there was a knock on the door with him, my first thought was "always" where's the dog, I always knew but that's not my point. 

So yes the baby thing can be done but most likely it will be "years of control with this dog???" It can be done sure but is it something the OP can and is willing to do??? Not my call, but if they chose to yes, there are things they can do, they just need to know how.  

It's gonna be work! But there is no harm also; in deciding that, one did not sign on for this??? A viable option is to keep the baby safe, and contact a local GSD Rescue, explain the situation and offer to foster in place and specific no babies or toddler households only.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think the nipping is not biting or we wouldn't having this conversation. If the baby had any amount of blood going on, this dog would be dead as a doornail, and so he should be. 

A dog's life is at stake here. I can't be sure, but I don't think the baby's life is. The dog has had plenty of opportunity to do serious damage, yes it can happen in a second, and this dog has had access to the child's face, the child in a jumpy seat, etc. The dog has not hurt the baby. If the parents think it is cute to have the baby jump on the dog or ride the dog, yeah that can change. But I am not hearing that. 

No way would I leave the room without either the child or the dog, even to get a drink. The baby is totally defenseless, and some things you can't take back. 

On the other hand, this dog does not sound like a baby killing monster, and we don't want anyone to do anything rash. 

I would limit the interaction between the baby and the dog. Get a pet yard, and put the baby toys, and definitely the jumpy seat in the pet yard, and let your baby have some time away from the dog while the dog is out and about. The rest of the time crate the dog or kennel in the back yard. Continue to do some group dog classes and all your walks with your dog, and play with him several times a day. Let him out when the baby is napping and the door is closed. 

The dog will mature further and become more used to the child when he sees that you are not allowing the child to be poking his eyes out or playing with his teeth, etc. When your dog is five and your kid is 2.5 years, it will probably be a whole different story. When your kid is 5 and this dog is 8, they may be inseparable. It is certainly possible. GSDs are usually really good with kids, especially children that grow up with them. 

That being said, human children come first. If you are concerned with aggression toward your son, than you had better find the money for a behaviorist and probably re-home. It's a matter of priorities. If your dog had an ear infection, and a vet visit and meds will cost $180, what are you going to do? Wait until your husband works some over-time and gets the check? Of course not. You will take your dog to the vet and make a bill if necessary. Behavior around your son is every bit as important as an ear infection. And getting free information of the internet when your son's life or your dog's life might be in danger, I dunno. It's a matter of priorities. Living single with a house payment and a car payment and unemployed, I could still find a way to go to a trainer if my dog's life depended on it.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

KaiserAus said:


> Have you watched videos on youtube to help you learn to be a better leader for Rumple?
> I would also think one long walk with plenty of training involved would be better than 5 short walks, it would tire him out more.
> I think your husband should take a back seat and you should do all the training and lots of it from now on. Training and fun games and grooming all help build your bond with your dog.
> I would not have that dog anywhere near my child until I knew for certain he would listen to my every command.


Walking your dog, is not about "exercise." It's about building a Bond of Trust. Or as I also put it " a dog does not need for you exercise" but they do need you to "walk!" I seriously doubt that anyone could out "walk there dog???" 

The only dog I had "Serious Freaking, send you to the ER (Pack Fight Issues) with, was the only Dog I did not "Walk???" Exercise was easy when I moved to NV. Endless miles of open desert, drive a quarter mile, park open the door and say OK and off they go, problem solved??? Yesss ... not so much??? When the dust settled and I started to get things "Right" one of the first things I now started to do "without a clue at the time" was Walk my dog??? 

Without going on yet another long tangent ... I'll simply default to Larry Krhon, he explained to me, how I solved my dogs H/A issues seemingly without effort.:





It's kinda how I always roll these days, who knew???


----------



## NewtoK9 (Jun 12, 2017)

Sorry, this is long. But I went through some similar things and I saw this post and thought maybe my experience/comments could help if you decide to keep your dog. I'm admittedly a newbie to dogs so take it all with a grain of salt - this is just what's working for me right now.

When I brought my puppy home he was way too much for my 2 1/2 year old to handle. Even at 12 weeks our dog was a solid 30 pounds and outweighed our child. The dog knew this and started doing things like pushing my child down, rolling him into a ball and once, humping him. He would jump on him, lick/nip at him, play fight etc - most of the things you mention your dog doing were what we witnessed. It seemed immediately apparent to us that our dog was just "being a puppy" and saw our two year old as a littermate, so he was trying to play with him like he would any other puppy. That might seem cute, but a human child can't handle that the way another puppy can and bottom line - a human child is *not* another puppy. He's not lower in the food chain, he's not an equal, he's not a playmate to rough house with. Our dog's place is as an invaluable, beloved guardian but there absolutely can't be any grey area about his role with our child.

So for us, we fully separated the two and they were not allowed to be in the same room together. At first this sucked because I had these visions of happy puppy playing with my happy toddler and how pinterest-perfect our puppy household would be. When I got past that part I realized that all of us would actually survive and still be just as happy when everyone was a little more mature. We did encourage positive interactions with our son and the puppy when the puppy was in the kennel. The key was always "positive" - we never forced this and the minute the excitement ramped up, we ended the interaction. In other words, seeing "his boy" was a good thing, but getting amped up around his boy ended that good thing. Now that Kreiger's obedience is becoming more solid, we are allowing more and more supervised time together. This has actually been going really well and our dog is becoming more of a playful caretaker than an over-charged landshark, but we operate under the same principle - if the energy starts amping up and both of them are getting too excited or my child gets knocked over etc, we end the interaction. 

So as others have said, I would separate dog and baby immediately. Personally, I don't think your dog truly wants to harm your child - in fact, I think he is probably very curious and "acting like a puppy" even though he's an adult dog. If he's never been around a baby before then he probably doesn't know how to interact with them. That's dangerous, because in being curious and playful he could decide your baby is just a toy and could very well inflict harm, even without meaning to. YOU have to educate him that the baby is important and not a toy, not to be harmed etc. I would recommend doing exactly like I did - crate your dog (or let him outside) when your child is out and allow controlled, positive interactions while crated. Let him see you feeding, bathing, playing with your child. Let him see the importance that child has to your life and let him see how much joy it brings to his when you both "grace him" with your presence - which, because it's positive, should also come with lots of praise, love and attention. Once your child goes to bed, let the dog out to relax with you and your husband and show him he's still valued. When your child is older and mobile, slowly add in supervised time as long as it stays positive.

Another thing is going to be the leadership side of it. I too struggle/struggled with leadership. My dog is a huge lover boy and is glued to me 100%, but he wouldn't listen to me. Then the minute my husband walked in the room my dog would sit, lay down and roll over just to show he was ready to do it if asked! He didn't even have to give a command, the dog was just waiting to do whatever he wanted! It was like my husband had pheremones that just immediately made my dog obey. I nearly tore my hair out. Luckily, my husband was able to observe and point out some things I was doing that were clearly telling my dog "hey, you don't have to listen to me. I'm just a bossy packmate with no teeth." I didn't believe I was so wishy-washy, but when I started correcting MY behavior, it was like a magic wand had been waved over my dog. My failures were primarily with consistency and focus. Consistency really is huge. A leader does not get angry or yell. A leader is calm, gives commands in a normal tone of voice, and expects 100% obedience. If a mistake is made the leader does not beat or hurt their dog, they expect the dog to try again and again until they succeed. A leader is also focused on the dog as much as the dog is supposed to be focused on them. 

If my dog didn't obey me I used to get upset and gripe about it. If I told him to sit and he just decided to wander off, what did I do? Turn around, grumble and go back to what I was doing. We tried again later, but by not making him follow through, I'd already reinforced that he didn't have to listen if he didn't want to. Sometimes I would even give him a treat for doing a different "good" behavior than what I had asked. How does that inspire anyone to follow? Moreover, how does griping or giving up teach anything? So I had to learn that when my dog doesn't obey me I must require him to do so. All this takes extra effort, yes. Extra time. If we're in the kitchen and I'm busy making dinner and he won't stay away when I tell him, I have to stop what I'm doing and require him to obey me before I continue. It's a process and while I'm getting better and better at it, there are still challenges. Because I didn't start out leading my dog does occasionally challenge me to see what will happen. And there are some bad behaviors (like rewarding other behaviors instead of the one I asked for) that have to be re-shaped. Again, I am learning to expect these challenges and be ready for them. You will likely need to do the same.

Even with tons of research on how to be a leader for your dog, I still didn't really get it until I experienced it. So if I had to describe leadership based on what I've learned so far, I would say that leadership is about commitment, responsibility and focus. Commitment in that both dog and owner have expectations that are 100% met - the owner expects obedience and the dog expects the owner to be consistent. Responsibility in that the pack leader is responsible for ensuring the safety and health of those in his/her pack (you provide food, shelter, love and never ask a dog to do something beyond his abilities), while the pack members have a responsibility to contribute (they do the job they are asked to do.) And focus - both the leader and the dog are focused on what they are accomplishing together. The leader is not walking the dog down the trail surfing facebook on their phone, or telling the dog to sit/stay while they read a recipe. If your attention is not engaged on your dog, your dog's attention won't be with you either. That's not to say that you have to always be focused on your dog and nothing else, but if you are asking your dog to actually do something, you need to be 100% engaged. Think about it like this: if your husband asked you to get him this super special present he'd been wanting for his birthday and you got that for him, and then he barely even said thank you or acted like it meant anything, why would you ever want to do something nice for him again? The same thing is happening to your dog, although your dog doesn't get the choice of whether to keep hanging around when you mess with his emotions like that!

Right now, you are not 100% consistent and so neither is your dog. You are asking your dog to be around your baby and he doesn't understand the baby or how to interact with it, so the baby is currently "beyond his abilities." This is, on some level, likely stressful to him. You are not focused on your dog because you're constantly stressed about your child and your dog interacting (and having a baby is a lot to focus on all on its own) and you don't feel respected, which probably makes you want to interact with him less. I think all of this is correctable, it just takes patience and commitment from you. I think living with a GSD is about building a relationship, not just an obedient guard dog. Relationships are not stagnant - they are always changing and evolving and take commitment on both sides. The relationship between human and dog probably gets much easier once you have built the foundation of respect but when people say the GSD takes a lot of work and commitment, I think this is what is really meant (in addition to their activity levels!). 

If you decide to keep your dog and work with him, I would suggest a couple of things - 1) get a trainer. I know your finances are tight but honestly, just a 1 hour personalized session could greatly assist you. That person can observe how you interact with the dog and give you pointers for things you can change immediately. They can also help you understand if there are other things that need to be adjusted. You can implement their suggestions and then see if you need more help. You may find you don't. And if you really, truly can't afford a 1 hour session, then get your husband to try to help examine what he does differently from you. Don't hesitate to try a technique and see if it's successful - in my experience, if it's successful it is usually quickly apparent. 2) Instead of multiple walks per day, switch to multiple training sessions with just YOU. Keep them short, 5-10 minutes max, and focus on just a couple of commands.Try to end on a successful note. Don't just play ball to play ball - make your dog _work_ first and throw a ball as a reward when he does something right. Everything right now needs to reinforce that your dog needs to see you as his source of all good things. Expect to be challenged in the beginning, but don't let it get you upset and don't back down. Just come back and do it again, and again and again. When you walk, use high-value treats and commands to keep the dog's attention focused on you. Use a clicker and reward every time he looks at you, turns toward you, responds to a command etc. The idea is that you are teaching him that you are in command, you are a source of really awesome things, and he needs to be focused and ready to respond if you ask it so he can get all the good things life offers. 

Again, I know this is a lot of work and that's hard when you have a baby and all that goes with it. I hope you don't go the route of re-homing your dog, but I truly can understand and respect why you would do that. I hope you find a happy solution for your family - good luck!


----------



## Hellish (Jul 29, 2017)

NewtoK9 said:


> 1) get a trainer. I know your finances are tight but honestly, just a 1 hour personalized session could greatly assist you. That person can observe how you interact with the dog and give you pointers for things you can change immediately. They can also help you understand if there are other things that need to be adjusted. You can implement their suggestions and then see if you need more help.


I heartily agree with this. I came away from our first 1 hour session/evaluation with a dog no longer reacting on leash to other dogs, and the tools and understanding to continue managing the fix. And vet that trainer carefully, or get referrals. The generalized obedience class I was taking my brat to with the local GSD club offered me nothing of value to manage that, and seeking out someone with LE and PPD training experience with working line shepherds has had magical results.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

A good trainer can see things on how your are managing your dog, that you cannot see. Even if you were in a room with 360 degrees of mirrors, you would miss it, because when your focus is on your dog, you can't watch what is happening with your leg or your back, etc. A trainer, can often see things that we don't because we are in the middle of a situation and are totally invested in our own beliefs, and invested in the dog. It is like the difference of being a puzzle piece, and being the guy putting the puzzle together. 

Find a good trainer. That in itself can be a job. You don't just look up pet trainers in the yellow pages. You need a trainer who is familiar with working breeds and has experience and success with them. And, who isn't just handing you a line to get a fee out of you. More expensive does not equal better trainer. It may equal a better salesman. And for some absolutely unfathomable reason, people who pay exorbitant amounts for trainers often sing their praises, even if their dog is still a monster, or had to be euthanized. Human nature, Hmmmm. Really, we do have the easier job when it comes to the relationship between dogs and humans. The dog side is a simple creature, natural followers, and predictable. Humans are complex, vary on leadership from day to day, hour to hour, and are totally inconsistent and unpredictable.


----------

