# The spinning begins... again...



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

....and we're back..

We had a handle on Titan's spinning for a while.. but it's back and I think I know the cause I just don't know how to fix it. 

Small background: Titan is a 2.5 year old GSD. When he was about 6 mo. he started his tail chasing. Being ignorant, at the time, I didn't stop him because I didn't know it was a problem. It progressed and got worse and worse and worse and he did it ALL THE TIME! So after research and training we got it down to where he very very rarely did it. Pretty much if I exercised him the approriate amount which is MINIMUM 2 mile walk once a day... which in reality isn't very much for him as he is SO high energy. Normally he gets a small, 1.5/2 mile walk/run in the morning and a 3-4 mile walk/run in the evening. with fetch played after the walk or run and some training in the evening. 

He never chased his tail it seemed. I couldn't speak for the hours he is home alone, but as far as me being home, he completely stopped. However, when his environment changes, until his routine is back in place, he will sometimes do it if he is anxious. When we moved to Florida last summer is an example, but we got a routine set and he was good to go. 

Now we are moving again and currently in limbo between our old place and the new place. We are out of the old place, house sitting with 4 other dogs, and move in to the new place this weekend. So I 100% understand the change and his anxiety with that, though this wasn't when he started it up again.. just had to get those details out of the way.

He started spinning again repeatedly when I started dating my boyfriend back in February. Inititally it started out with a normal him just getting overly excited when Dan would come over, as he does with everyone. He wouldn't sit down at all and would bring him ANYTHING he could find, to get him to play fetch. Dan obliged in the beginning until I established in another thread that he was associating people coming over with playtime and that's why he gets so excited so I asked Dan to not play with him anymore until he is sitting down calm and let Dan initiate it. Well we are still working on that.. lol. However he started to spin again. If Dan and I ignore him.. he will whine try to play then spin if no one gives him attention. (by attention I mean play, he doesn't like lovey dovey cuddle attention) I have to always tell him "enough" and "go lay down" and he always listens but when I release him and Dan and I get settled again on the couch or whatever we're doing, he's back at it. 

It get INCREASINGLY worse when Dan kisses me or hugs me. Titan wil whine and whine and whine and then spin.. it is ten times as bad when Dan and I have, um, alone time if you will, lol. I will usually put Titan outside the room and he will sit outside whining and spinning, while hitting the bedroom door with every spin, which is how I know he's doing it. We've left him in the room and he stil spins.. it's like he is jealous or something and I really have no idea how t fix it except to stop every 3 seconds to tell him no.. which talk about mood killer. Haha.. sounds bad but it's true..

Another thing that he started is if I let the dogs outside and no one is outside, just the dogs, he will go into a corner or next to a wall and start spinning until I say "enough" and he will then lay down. That may just be related to the move and the small amount of exercise he's been getting because of all that.. 

Sorry this was so long but I had to explain.. HELP! It's driving me mad! To the point of not even wanting my boyfriend over because I have to constantly deal with him.. and I NEVER ever want to resent Titan ever... Dan doesn't believe me when I say he normally isn't like that.. normally, without Dan, he is fine! he will lay down and relax and only bring me a toy when I tell him to or we are outside. He is a 100% different dog when Dan is there. Advice PLEASE!


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

No help unfortunately just a comment.

While the spinning is more then RG, the circumstances of some of the events sounds like RG. Since have no experience, call me off the wall, but that was the first thing that came to mind.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

RG? Do you mean resource guarding? sorry if that's obvious, lol I hate Acronyms.. but can you explain more what you mean? I'm open to any opinions.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It sounds like you need to up his exercise and mental exercise until things settle down a bit. 

Does he spin while crated? If not, could you try crating him for half an hour when Dan first comes over, or if he starts acting like a nut when Dan shows you attention? And I mean crating him and leaving the room. 

Ninja used to spin around when fence fighting with a female who was loose, she would then spin around two or three times, and I would tell her, "Cut that out!" And she would. The habit never formed, not sure if that would help your situation though. 

If the dog has no control over the spinning, then correcting him for it, seems harsh. But if the dog can stop it, can knock it off, then giving him a time out with no attention, might help. 

These are just suggestions from someone who hasn't really dealt with the issue.

I did not know what RG was either, wouldn't have guessed resource guarding.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Yes, resource guarding. My typing laziness showing 

As said, no experience with it. Just from some of the descriptions , some of the spinning events appears to be centered around you. Dan hugs, he spins, you sit on the sofa with Dan, he spins, your 'quiet' time, he spins.

You said it almost appears he is jealous. How is he when the 2 of you are just 'there'; normal conversation, everyday things. Does that make sense?

I am not at all trying to make light of the spinning, it's a serious ocd dogs deal with sometimes.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Anytime Dan comes over, crate him so that he cannot spin. Pick a crate that is not too large and is just big enough to fit him. After he calms and relaxes around Dan, let him out for short, stress-free visits. Crate him again anytime you need to be alone with Dan. I would also consider putting a cone (ecollar) collar on him so he physically cannot spin due to the device on him. 

You mentioned this might be due to stress caused by moving and changing routines. I would ask the vet to prescribe some anti-anxiety or depression medication for the short term. You can wean him off the medication once he settles into his new environment and gets accustomed to his new routine. He sounds stressed out and overwhelmed with all these changes. He cannot handle this much stimulation and resorts to primitive coping mechanisms. Same as a child sucking his thumb or biting nails...but much worse. 

Be proactive in stopping this behavior. I probably don't need to tell you that this can become really devastating when this type of thing gets out of control (self-mutilation, tail amputation etc).


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Midwest has a narrow crate designed to fit into SUV vehicles. It won't let him spin due to the design. I would consider this option to contain his behavior. 
Solution Series Side-by-Side Double Door SUV Crates, Midwest Side-by-Side Double Door SUV Crates


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

selzer said:


> It sounds like you need to up his exercise and mental exercise until things settle down a bit.
> 
> Does he spin while crated? If not, could you try crating him for half an hour when Dan first comes over, or if he starts acting like a nut when Dan shows you attention? And I mean crating him and leaving the room.
> 
> ...


He does cut it out.. I can always tell when he is going to start too so when I notice that, I always say "enough!" and he stop instantly. And as far as I know, he doesn't spin in his crate. From what I have seen when I am there from start to finish with his spinning, rather than jsut catching it out of the corner of my eye, He will sit down, like he's bored, then manuver his tail under his butt so he can put a paw on it.. then the spinning begins. That's just the bored Titan. The anxious Titan will start whining and go immediately into a spin... kinda start by eying his tail then there he goes. 

I agree 100% that more exercise in needed.. but at the moment, I can only give him fetch time and a small walk because of work, moving things into the new place and the other 4 dogs. I hate that it's an excuse but it's all I got.



Twyla said:


> Yes, resource guarding. My typing laziness showing
> 
> As said, no experience with it. Just from some of the descriptions , some of the spinning events appears to be centered around you. Dan hugs, he spins, you sit on the sofa with Dan, he spins, your 'quiet' time, he spins.
> 
> ...


Oh ok I can see what you mean. When Dan and I are just sitting there talking or doing normal everyday things.. he is how he is when anyone but me or my roommate are around, just anxious and wants to play constantly. I have to tell him to lay down or he will be in our face the whole time trying to get us to play. He will go lay down if I direct him or we just went on a long walk, but if we move to go in th kitchen, bathroom, etc, he's up trying to get us to play again and I have to go tell him to lay down. 

He's been that way with everyone his whole life. Just wants to play play play constantly. ALL. THE. TIME. lol but only when there are other people other than myself and roommate there. Which was the comment of associating playtime with other people.. we are working on that. He will still occasionally spin when he gets overly excited to play and no one plays with him.. but it is FAR far worse when Dan is there. Dan saiys he's neurotic, lol.. which I don't blame him for thinking that, because I might assume the same thing if I didn't know any better.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

qbchottu said:


> Be proactive in stopping this behavior. I probably don't need to tell you that this can become really devastating when this type of thing gets out of control (self-mutilation, tail amputation etc).


Believe me, I have no intention of ignoring the behavior.. promise. Other than the fact that it's a horrible behavior and habit for an animal to possess, it is obnoxiously annoying. Lucky for me, Titan has never ever chewed his tail or anything like that. He simply catches it, lets it go and chases it again. No cfhewing or anything. Yet. I plan on keeping it that way. I have a crate like that, that I will have to put the door back because I took it off since he likes to go in and out all the time and I don't lock him up anymore. however, I will start that again.. at least in the manner which you suggested and see if that woks.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Spinning is usually established by boredom, and is usually the result of imbalance in drive and nerve base.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> Spinning is usually established by boredom, and is usually the result of imbalance in drive and nerve base.


Mind elaborating.. and maybe ideas on a fix action? I got the boredom part, more so the imbalance on Drive and Nerve base...


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The fix part is dependent on how habitual has it become and how often you can prevent the triggers from activating the dog so as to break the cycle.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Well like I said in the post before. I had it under control. The problem now seems to be a mixture of my new boyfriend and moving.

With my boyfriend it seems to be when he kisses me, hugs/cuddles with me, etc.. and that's the more difficult part. He doesn't get aggressive.. just whines then starts spinning. Not sure if he's just tryign to get my attention back or what but I haven't figured out how to fix it. He stops on a dime when I tell him to. That's not the issue. As soon as I say "enough!" he stops and lays down. Just trying to figureout how to get him back to where we were when he rarely did it..


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