# Looking for Altdeutsche Schäferhunde



## kiakandai (Nov 13, 2017)

Hi there shepherds lovers,

It is now easy to find good quality Altdeutsche Schäferhunde in Europe. But how about in the US? 
Does anybody here own one of these? How did you import it to the US?

Link: to one of the Clubs for standard:nerd:: The ucfas.fr is the French Club for exam

Thanks!

Kia
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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

This article may give you some information:

Information about the Old German Shepherd Dog - Page 1


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"Is it a actual breed that decends from the original old shepherd dogs or is just recreated from different breeds to resemble the old dogs?"

there's the rub .

The German Shepherd breed descends from the original old shepherd dogs.
Well documented in unparalleled in description in the von Stephanitz book.

I don't know of any other breed having this much documentation available for the genesis story.

this Alt Duetsche Schaferhund grouping was a "place" to collect and promote , at the time undesirable and
unshowable , long coat puppies.

I've looked at pedigrees and the are the same as contemporary WGSL's.
here is one sample pedigree of a male being used as stud to produce your A D S. Ursus von der Magistrale 

the difference is that those breeding under that not-a-breed banner is that they deliberately select for 
long coated pups , rather than have the genetics reveal themselves as a recessive chance.

The Alt Duetsche Hutte Hund is the working dog - 4 different types that are bred for function and may cross over into each other's group -- so not exactly hand wringing for "breed" purity . Function from a similar base for work.

the first group is pet oriented --- the second group needs employment


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Carmen has it right, as I tried to say in the post that was linked to.

I have a pedigree for an Altedeutscher Schaferhund, and he is all SV and DDR registered lines


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Also check out Harzer Fuchs, getting popular in Western Europe. A friend of mine bred them. In the past they were interbred with same type dogs as long as they did their jobs and of course now they are all becoming separate breeds.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Harzer Fuchs and Gelbacke -- big big favourites --- 

yes they have been interbreeding just like the sharp eyed shepherds would have done without regard to purity of a breed - and total regard to function - and easy and long lived at that --- anything that made their livelihood easier .

nature doesn't give a fig about purity --- breed is unnatural selection 

I saw the decline of the Basset Fauve de Bretagne (since I love my scenting dogs) a superior tracking dog -- natural talent with a fault that may be its downfall. That fault? Being absolutely incredibly "super cute".

They became popular and are "pets" in the UK --- and shown --- and the dogs have a collection of all the non-working traits , spoiled , and wacky , neither , nor , because the dog is no longer clear in its purpose of breeding and not in the keeping either . Some will eat your couch and run around like a hooligan -- resistant to learning and amped with energy . Sound familiar?

Meanwhile working dogs still found in France are true to type - connect to handler , work a track like a seasoned expert almost from birth -- saw one video of dogs working in a violent thunderstorm - unshaken and dedicated.

similar type in Scandinavia where dogs are utility real working--- .

and now they are showing them. 

Does not bode well.

Hope the alt deutsche hutte hund can be spared .


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## kiakandai (Nov 13, 2017)

Thanks you for your reply. I know exactly where to look in Europe but not in the US. My question was actually: do you know of anybody who owns an Altdeutscher Schaferhunde in the US? Is there any breeder who has looked into them in the US? Various German and Polish breeders have sold some over here to private people. I know this as I am in contact with the breeders I trust in Europe. 

Thank you again .
Kia Kandai


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## kiakandai (Nov 13, 2017)

Thanks you for your reply, Carmen. My question was actually: do you know of anybody who owns an Altdeutscher Schaferhunde in the US? Is there any breeder who has looked into them. 

Thank you!


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## kiakandai (Nov 13, 2017)

Thanks. I know exactly the breed and its standards. I was wondering if any US breeder had attempted to import some European AS and started a kennel in the US. 

Also, I am purposely not using the name old german sheepdog... The variety is called "Altdeutsche Schäferhund" and I want to make sure I use what the breeders and clubs use as a name. I have seen Altdeutscher Schäferhunde as well..

The "breed" I am referring to, would look like the pic below. That is only one possibly physique they may have. These are from a German breeder for example but you have some Belgian, Polish, French and Dutsch ones as well and they may look different. And it is OK. Not everybody like the big massive type. There are several morphologies to this "breed". So does anyone know who in the US may breed them?

Thanks.
Kiakandai


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## kiakandai (Nov 13, 2017)

Can I see your dog, please?


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

I didn't know of these guys. Interesting line. I would have to get used to them but as long as they follow the SV working ability and keep from " show line" modifications I think they are ok. My Aussie has a very long coat for her breed. It a real pain to clean out various " stickers" from her coat. A bigger dog like these would take a lot of time cleaning the field messes from their coats where I go in the fields. 

Long coat dogs have a very flowing movement about them. I've seen coated GSD but they are more " fuzzy" than these guys.

I'd like more info on them.


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

maybe its because I'm new to this and don't know a lot of the back story to shepherds yet but based on that pic these just appear to be SL long coat shepherds, which are easily found in the states. is there something I'm missing?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

There is a poster on here with dogs named Troy and jethro. Jethro was the new pup she had imported -a long coated sable working line. I?m not sure if that is the breeder you listed on this thread maybe you can message her. I know Troy and jethro were on instagram but was going to post the link here but see she is no longer on it.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=688905


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Maybe you can ask this breeder if the know anyone here in the US that does. They have dogs like the photo you posted. http://www.patterner-muehle.de/index.php/impressum


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

there are lots of long coated German shepherd pups in the USA .

they are just that -- bred for long coat -- many are WGSL's

this became a bit of a niche for coated (accepted when they were not elsewhere)
and "olde fashioned" large boned market 

I had a black sable GSD long coat - my breeding , all working lines -- so hairy he was scary 
History - Kawartha Lakes Police Service

Strike also comes from my breeding program

then there is Mathias -- who I will get a picture of - a hairy bi-colour long coat - all working lines


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

this is the long coat breeder I'm looking to get a pup from 

von den Bären? German Shepherds - Home


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Fata Degli Achei 

Zenzi von Oasis 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2408760-uria-vom-chickhoff

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2483551-kali-von-der-zenteiche 



long coated show lines


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

carmspack said:


> Fata Degli Achei
> 
> Zenzi von Oasis
> 
> ...


yea I know they are show lines. I'm not sure what the OP is intending for with their dog search other than specific appearance. ill be using one for ipo sport use myself as well as just all around family member house pet.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

but OP doesn't need to search for a category called "alt deutsche schaferhund"
and he or she doesn't need to go to a European breeder .

there are lots of long coated GSD right here in North America and they are mostly WGSL's - So if that is what they want that is a good place to start looking.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

kiakandai said:


> The "breed" I am referring to, would look like the pic below. That is only one possibly physique they may have. These are from a German breeder for example but you have some Belgian, Polish, French and Dutsch ones as well and they may look different. And it is OK. Not everybody like the big massive type. There are several morphologies to this "breed". So does anyone know who in the US may breed them?
> 
> Kiakandai


Wow, beautiful dogs. They look like long coat DDR.
Who is the German breeder? Let me know if you ever find out where to get one.


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