# Question about Champion seat belt system



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Ok so Sasha's seat belt just came in (yay!) and I put it on her, and when I was reading the directions it said that it should be able to rotate on her. So my question is how loose? Right now I have it on her and the big rings are able to rotate all the way to her side. Is that too loose? I took her on a short (probably 10min. drive) with it on to see how she'd react before we drive for an hour and a half tomorrow, and while she doesn't love it, she doesn't really fight it. I figure it will just take time getting her used to it. I have her wearing the harness just around the apartment right now to help her get used to it, as she tried to rub it off earlier. 

It's this one, just so I'm clear

Champion Canine Seat Belt System


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

That seems about right to me--the pics show the large ring on the side of the dog--That is how I use it for Sib--


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks. Yeah I understand why they say to have it loose; I just didn't want it too loose. Do you use yours on just the shoulder part of the seat belt in your car or do you do the shoulder part and the part that goes across a person's lap?


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

I only use the lap belt--jan


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I always put Rusty's on the back passengers shoulder belt but for no particular reason. His is also loose enough to where it can rotate, but he can't wiggle out of it. When the clip is resting it's always on his side.

I like the system


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Thanks. Yeah I understand why they say to have it loose; I just didn't want it too loose. Do you use yours on *just the shoulder part of the seat belt in your car or do you do the shoulder part and the part that goes across a person's lap*?


I make it so BOTH go thru the Champions ring. I want the extra safety. Because you can extend that part my dogs can still stand and move but still be securely in the vehicle.

I think if you had to choose one place to attach it would be better to use the lower lap part.
















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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Oh, I do the above but it explained it horribly. Yes, it's attached to the lap belt, don't forget to get the desired length then lock the seatbelt.


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## Cheerful1 (Sep 27, 2011)

I've been attaching it to the shoulder portion. Joey's been able to move around in the back seat.

The only thing I don't like about the system is the "bull snap". You have to pull it out rather than push it in (which is what I'm used to).

That being said, I've ordered another restraint strap for our other car so we don't have to keep switching.

Very pleased.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

As far as how loose to make it, I would suggest you pull on the D-rings and see if she can back out the harness, also lift her legs and see if you can take the harness off her while it's still latched. If she can get out while it's latched, it's too loose. I had to tighten Bianca's Champion because one day I looked in the backseat, and she had tried to turn around in the seat and instead had backed out of the harness.

This is how I have mine attached:











It's secured to the shoulder part, and then that is looped around the back of the headrest. I realize that if there was an accident the headrest might come off, but I started doing this because if I tried attaching the strap to both the lap and shoulder belt or just to the shoulder belt but let it hang down, if the dog tried to turn around while attached they ended up getting all tangled up in it. This way they can turn around and they just walk underneath the strap and don't get tangled.
That setup also prevents them from pulling the seatbelt out very far and so they can't move way around in the car, although I don't really have a problem with that since Bianca pretty much just stays in place except for turning around to get more comfy.

I made a page showing different ways to put on the Champion seatbelt and to attach it to the car because I kept having people ask me how I did it. If you're interested here's the link:
http://www.chicagocanine.com/seatbelt/seatbelt.html

I've changed a few things since that was written though, I'm planning to update it soon so expect to see new photos of Bianca there soon  (the photos there now are my previous two dogs.)


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

I believe Champion says the safest way to attach it is to attach it to both the lap and shoulder straps- so that's what I've been doing. Mikko does get tangled if he turns around, but after me untangling him many times and giving up, I realized he can untangle himself. 

ChicagoCanine- I did that with the seatbelt for a long time, and when I finally tried to put the seatbelt back normally, it was stuck! I had to have the dealership fix it (which was just to take the headrest off- it was stuck), and it took forever for the seatbelt to retract properly again.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> *I believe Champion says the safest way to attach it is to attach it to both the lap and shoulder straps- so that's what I've been doing.* Mikko does get tangled if he turns around, but after me untangling him many times and giving up, I realized he can untangle himself.


Me too, seems like all 4 of the dogs I used with the Champion belts have figured it out. They aren't completely mobile but it's a compromise with mobility and safety for me. My dogs can sit stand, and sit and curl up to sleep, but are still kept in a somewhat confined area and will definitely be in the car if something happens rather than getting tossed or hanging out.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> I believe Champion says the safest way to attach it is to attach it to both the lap and shoulder straps- so that's what I've been doing.


It's not safer if my dog is sitting there with the strap twisted up around her body-- or her leg, which I've seen, when she tried to turn around and then got tangled. She never learned to untangle herself. It's like she doesn't care, she'll just sit there tangled up. :crazy:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I use a similar set up with a different harness and a horse trailer tie. The only problem I had is when Jax fell off the seat. I thought I had blown a tire the thud was so loud. Finally I felt behind me and there was monkey...on her back behind my seat, feet in the air, patiently waiting for me to pull over an help her out.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Chicagocanine said:


> It's not safer if my dog is sitting there with the strap twisted up around her body-- or her leg, which I've seen, when she tried to turn around and then got tangled. She never learned to untangle herself. It's like she doesn't care, she'll just sit there tangled up. :crazy:


This is an interesting comment. I have the strap attached low- to the buckle portion of the car seat belt. Pimg will often lay down spanning both back seats with the buckle coming around the front side (front of car), under her body, and then attaching to the seatbelt. If I were to get in a wreck or have to stop quickly, she would be "spun" in a barrel roll so to speak. Had the strap been attached high above her shoulders- she would simply fly forward (front of car) until the strap engaged.

So I do think it's a bit safer to be attached high. However (and I think this is a *big* however), the car seatbelt is designed to hold in a person, where the person's body is acting on the entire portion of the seatbelt area in contact with the body. This of course ensures that in a fast stop, the belt is pulled quickly from the ratcheting mechanism and the "auto stop" device is engaged on the belt. You know- standard mechanics of the seatbelt. But when you attach a very small clip (the D-ring coupler thing) to a small portion of the belt, you reduce the contact area that the object in motion (dog) applies force to. I'd be very concerned that that smaller contact portion-- which can slide up and down the seatbelt no less!-- would not adequately cause the "auto stop" mechanism in the seatbelt to engage. 

For me, the "barrel roll" effect caused by attaching the harness strap low is a compromise of_ knowing_ there is a positive stop. I think it would be very interesting to put this to a test. I might try to do it...


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Forgot to mention- Pimg easily untangles herself with the strap mounted low.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel this advice on their webpage:


> *2) attached to a shoulder belt section only (fig. 2)*
> A good method for restraining large dogs that are well behaved. Retractable shoulder belts allow bigger dogs to move into a comfortable position, and lets them feel as though they have freedom of movement, but will lock up and protect them in an accident (just like with human passengers). Simply slip the Quick Link onto the shoulder belt and hook up your dog. When using the system this way we recommend shortening the Restraint Strap to provide maximum protection.


...does not in any way account for how a seatbelt was _engineered_ to work. I find it very unsafe advice. Personally, I use this method:











> *4) attached to an unfastened seat belt strap (fig. 4)*
> This provides an easy, simple, and tangle-free way to restrain any dog without even having to fasten the seat belt! Just open the Quick Link and slide it through the loop in the seat belt fabric that holds the female seat belt buckle (for most vehicles, some do not have a fabric loop). The Quick Link can be left attached for future use, and the Restraint Strap quickly detached and removed from the vehicle.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

Mine would get their legs all tangled up in the belt when I had it attached low. One time was really bad and scared me. I changed to putting it around the back of the headrest and attaching it high. I've got my seat belts in the locked mode already for extra safety. This has worked out much better and they haven't got tangled up in it yet since I changed it.



Chicagocanine said:


> It's not safer if my dog is sitting there with the strap twisted up around her body-- or her leg, which I've seen, when she tried to turn around and then got tangled. She never learned to untangle herself. It's like she doesn't care, she'll just sit there tangled up. :crazy:


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

kbella999 said:


> I've got my seat belts in the locked mode already for extra safety.


I think this was a major omission from their instructions on attaching the strap to the shoulder belt. This might be obvious to people with kids (and car seats) but only just this last week did I even realize that you can put the shoulder belt into "locked" mode! I still don't think putting it around the headrest (which is absolutely not intended to take that kind of force in an accident) is a good idea, but I see the need for keeping the strap high.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Will this work in the back of an SUV or is it too short? Stosh rides in the back compartment, currently unrestrained. There are hooks mounted to the floor I could hook it to, but I'm wondering if it will allow enough length for him to sit up.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Stosh said:


> Will this work in the back of an SUV or is it too short? Stosh rides in the back compartment, currently unrestrained. There are hooks mounted to the floor I could hook it to, but I'm wondering if it will allow enough length for him to sit up.


Yes- it will work fine because the harness itself is designed to rotate around the dog as they move- including rotating all the way to the side. The strap expands to 20" in length. So even for a pretty tall dog, as long as they are less than 20" from the floor to their scapula/humerus junction (that's about how far the harness rotates) you should be fine. See here:









You can see the rotation of the harness here too on Pimg. She's 26" tall on a good day.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

wildo said:


> So I do think it's a bit safer to be attached high. However (and I think this is a *big* however), the car seatbelt is designed to hold in a person, where the person's body is acting on the entire portion of the seatbelt area in contact with the body. This of course ensures that in a fast stop, the belt is pulled quickly from the ratcheting mechanism and the "auto stop" device is engaged on the belt. You know- standard mechanics of the seatbelt. But when you attach a very small clip (the D-ring coupler thing) to a small portion of the belt, you reduce the contact area that the object in motion (dog) applies force to. I'd be very concerned that that smaller contact portion-- which can slide up and down the seatbelt no less!-- would not adequately cause the "auto stop" mechanism in the seatbelt to engage.


I'm pretty sure it will engage, as even if I just give a bit of a tug on it, it will engage when I do that so I don't see why it wouldn't engage in a sudden stop. 
Also I have not found her to be able to pull the shoulder belt out at all while she is buckled in this way, so there is not any extra length there.

As I said originally, I realize the headrest might come off as it's not made to hold like that, but that was the only way I could figure out to keep the harness strap up high and keep the dogs from getting all tangled. Neither Bianca or my previous dog would untangle themselves once they got tangled, well my Golden tried a few times but just ended up tangling up even more instead. Bianca will just sit/lay there all tangled until I go and untangle her myself, like she doesn't care.

I actually recently did come across possible another way to secure the strap, by accident when I was rearranging the back seat configuration but I don't know if it's a good idea or not as it involved hooking the harness strap near where the belt comes out, and I don't know if that would be safe.


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