# Non GSD Anyone know much about American Pocket Bully Dogs?



## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

My son is thinking of getting an American Pocket Bully. This is after owning an American Staffordshire Terrier who is probably going to have to be PTS after biting his wife. He was being managed for his DA and HA tendencies but this time he bit one of his family. Anyhow, my son wants to get another dog if this is what he has to do. He was talking about the Pocket Bully. I am not familiar with the breed. I know he wants a dog that he can take out and about without worrying, but not a dog that requires a lot of exercise. Has to be good with kids too. Any opinions?


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

Maybe stay away from the "bully dog" defined breeds altogether. Just a thought. WHY so set on a breed that is quite likely to have some issues of perception if nothing else? 

Is there some underlying reason for choosing a breed that is universally distrusted? There are plenty of mixed breeds or even pure bred dogs that do NOT have associated problems with them. 

If your son is really set on getting a breed that is tagged with issues, he should consider going to the pound and saving a dog that is sure to be put to death and training it as a therapy dog or other service that benefits not only the community, but the overall reputation of the breed.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

No offense. But it sounds as if your son and his family are not an appropriate home for a bully breed. Pocket or not. 

As for the pocket bully schtick. I would stay so far away from them. Would you get a pocket GSD? No. 

If he wants a smaller dog, there are plenty of wonderful family dogs. PWD, Labrador, NSDTR. That are less likely to have the types of issues your son was unable to work with in his current dog. 


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

The AmBully is less DA than an APBT. Properly bred they should NEVER be HA. They are good with kids but that goes back to finding one from a very responsible breeder. They do need a bit of exercise, not as much as the APBT but they are no couch potatoes. Since he's had problems before he really needs to do some research before he gets one of these dogs again, there are a lot of aggressive AmBullies with very poor body structure out there, more than the good ones. At the bottom of the index page there is a link to GoPitbull dog forums you may be able to get better more detailed information there than here.  Good luck!


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

There are different classes of AmBully, pocket would not be my first choice.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

I don't know what a pocket bully is, but it sounds more like a marketing ploy than a real breed with responsible breeders.
Why not get a staffordshire bull terrier. I know several in agility and they are all the happiest, friendliest dogs with people and other dogs.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

An American Bully is the shorter and stouter version of an APBT, it's still in development I think there's actually more than one standard for them. The classes if I remember correctly are small medium large xxl and extreme.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Sounds to me like another byb made up "breed" if he wants another pit research a real APBT breeder that breeds for temperament, not size or color. I love bully breeds and mine have never shown any human aggression at all. 




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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

American Bully

Standard


GENERAL IMPRESSION

The American Bully should give the impression of great strength for its size. Compact to medium/large size dog with a muscular body and blocky head. Powerful in its movement and should display effortless movement at the same time. Keenly alive and alert to its surroundings. The American Bully should have the appearance of heavy bone structure with a Bully build and look.
CHARACTERISTICS
The American Bully is a companion breed exhibiting confidence, a zest for life, along with an exuberant will to please and companionship with their family. This making the American Bully an excellent family companion. Despite the American Bully’s fierce and powerful appearance their demeanor is gentle. They are great with kids, and extremely friendly with strangers, other dogs, and other animals. Human or dog aggression, extreme shyness, or viciousness is very uncharacteristic of the American Bully and is highly undesirable.
HEAD
• The distinct heavy, large and broad head of the American Bully exemplifies breed type.
• Medium in length, deep throughout, broad skull, well chiseled with very pronounced cheek muscles, distinct and deep stop, and high set ears.
• Ears- Set high and can be either natural or cropped.
• Eyes- All colors equally accepted except blue eyes which is a fault and albinism (pinkish to red), which is a disqualification. Lack of pigment around the eyes is undesirable. Eye shape is oval to slightly roundish, low down in skull and set far apart. Visibility of the haw should be minimal.
Faults: Blue eyes. Overly visible haw.
Serious Faults: Both eyes not matched in color.
Disqualifying Faults: Albinism eyes.
• Muzzle- Short-Medium in length and broad in width. Length to be shorter than the length of the skull measuring 25% to 35% (1/4 to 1/3) of the overall length of the head. The muzzle is blocky or slightly squared to fall away abruptly below eyes. The topline of the muzzle is to be straight with nose neither pointed nor turned up in profile.
• Jaws- well defined.
• Under jaw- to be strong and parallel to muzzle, never turning upward.
• Lips- semi close and even, some looseness accepted (more so with the XL and Extreme varieties) but not preferred.
Faults: Muzzle too long or snipey; lack of pronounced, deep stop; weak under jaw; under jaw turning up; nose turning up or pushed back; excessive flews.
• Upper Teeth- to meet tightly outside lower teeth in form or scissor bite accepted.
Faults: Level bite, overshot bite, undershot bite and wry bite.
Serious Faults: Severely overshot or undershot bites, measuring 1/4 inch or more.
• Nose- all colors acceptable except albinism (light pink in color).
NECK
• Heavy, muscular, slightly arched, tapering from shoulder to back of skull. Compact to medium size should have minimal or no loose skin (some looseness of skin is accepted with the XL and Extreme varieties).
Faults: Neck too thin or weak; neck too short or too long.
FOREQUARTERS
• Shoulders to be strong and muscular with wide blades set wide; and well laid back. The upper arm is approximately equal to the length of the shoulder blade and joined at an angle of approximately 35 to 45 degrees.
• Front legs- straight from legs, large or round bones, pastern are short and nearly erect.
• Feet- slight turning outwards is accepted as long as feet do not measures a 45 degree.
Faults: Upright or loaded shoulders. Upper arm too short. Front toeing out more than 45 degrees; feet toeing in; front legs bowed; down at the pasterns; splayed feet.
BODY
• Heavily muscled, massive “Bully” body type of compact/medium length giving the impression of great power for its size and exemplifying the breed type of the American Bully.
• Well-sprung ribs, deep in rear and all ribs close together; rib cage to extend to the elbow.
• Forelegs- set rather wide apart to permit chest development.
• Chest- should be deep, broad and well filled in.
BACK
• Fairly short to medium back, slight sloping from withers to rump or straight accepted with gentle short slope at rump to base of tail. (slightly higher rears accepted for XL and Extreme varieties) but not desired in the compact medium size. The American Bully should give the appearance of a square body, equal in length when measured from point of shoulder to point of buttocks and from the withers to the ground.
Faults: Back too long; rear higher than withers; weak or swayed topline; roached or wheel back.
HINDQUARTERS
• Well-muscled, let down at hocks, turning neither in nor out (slight turns accepted in the XL and Extreme varieties).
• Muscular development, angulation and width of the hindquarters should be in balance with that of the forequarters.
• When viewed from the rear legs are to be straight and parallel.
• Croup should have a slight downward angle.
Faults: Hocks turning in or out (slight turn out accepted in the XL and Extreme varieties).
Narrow hindquarters; straight or over-angulated stifle joints; bowed legs.
TAIL
• Medium in comparison to size, low set, tapering to a fine point and extending approximately to the hock.
• When relaxed tail is to be carried low. When moving tail is carried level with the topline or in a raised position when excited (challenge tail), but should never be carried curled over, breaking the plane of the back (gay tail).
• Tail to be clear of any kinks, knots or any curvature.
Faults: Tail to long or too short approximately up to an inch above or below point of the hock.
Gay tail (carried over the plane of the back).
Serious Faults: Kinked or knotted tail. Extremely short tail.
Disqualifying Faults: Screwed or Bobbed tail.
FEET
• Should be of moderate size, compact, well arched and tight.
Faults: Splayed or flat feet; long toes.
COAT
• Short, close, stiff to the touch and glossy.
Faults: Curly or wavy coat.
Serious Faults: Long coat.
COLOR
• All colors and patterns are permissible except the color merle.
Disqualifying Faults: Color Merle
SIZE
• Dogs should be healthy and should NOT reach the point where it is considered obese.
• Weight- There is no particular weight for the breed.
• Height and weight should be in proportion of the body frame.
• Height-Please see Variety Amendments.
• All varieties to exhibit “Bully” characteristics and traits as described in the American Bully Standard, which are key elements of breed type to the American Bully breed.
STANDARD AMERICAN BULLY
o Males under 17″ – 20″ at the withers. Females under 16″ – 19″ at the withers.
GAIT
• Should be effortless and powerful. The action must, however, be unrestrained, free and vigorous with powerful drive off the rear. (Some paddling and lumbering accepted in XL and Extreme varieties), but not preferred in compact to medium.
• Front and rear reach should be moderate and in balance with one another.
• Legs turn neither in nor out, nor every cross or interfere with each other.
• Dog moving on the same plane – Each leg moving in the same plane shared with the other leg on the same side.
• Backline should remain level, with flexing to be very slight.
Faults: Rolling; pacing; sidewinding; hackney action; paddling or pounding (exception in the XL and Extreme varieties where some is accepted). Not moving o the same plane; legs over reaching; legs crossing over in front or rear; rear legs moving too close or touching.
FAULTS
Faults to be penalized but not disqualifications for showing are:
• Overly visible haw
• Muzzle too long or snipey
• Lack of pronounced/deep stop
• Weak underjaw
• Underjaw turning up.
• Albinism nose (light pink)
• Nose turning up or pushed back.
• Tail too long or too short (approx. 1″ from point of hock)
• Curled tail (gay tail)
• Level or flush bite
• Slightly undershot mouth
• Slightly overshot mouth
• Wry or cross bite
• Neck too thin or weak
• Neck too short or too long
• Upright or loaded shoulders
• Upper arm too short
• Severe turned fronts (in or out)
• Bowed front legs
• Down at the pasterns (weak pasterns)
• Splayed feet
• Hocks turning in or out (Except in XL and Etreme varieties where slight turn is acceptable)
• Curly or wavy coat
• Movement: Rolling, pacing, sidewinding, hackney action, and paddling or pounding (exception in XL and Extreme varieties where some is accepted).
• Not moving on the same plane – legs over reaching, crossing over in front or rear, or rear legs moving too close or touching.
SERIOUS FAULTS
Faults to be heavily penalized but not disqualifications for showing are:
• Both eyes not matched in color
• Severely overshot or undershot (1/4 inch or more)
• Kinked tail
• Twisted tail
• Knotted tail
• Overly Short tail
• Long coat
DISQUALIFICATIONS
• Displaying or possessing aggressive behavior towards humans
• Pink or Albino eyes
• Merle color or pattern
• Unilateral or bilateral cryptorchid (missing one or both testicles)
• Unilateral or bilateral deafness (deafness in one or both ears)
• Screwed tail
• Bobbed tail


American Bully

Pocket



Pocket Bully
This is an amendment to the basic standard which a Pocket Bully is determined by its adult height. 


* Males under 17″ at the withers.
* Females under 16″ at the withers.

Pocket Bully variety is simply shorter than the Standard American Bully. Aside from this difference, the Pocket Bully variety exhibits the same breed type and follows the same standard as the Standard American Bully.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Scarlettsmom said:


> Maybe stay away from the "bully dog" defined breeds altogether. Just a thought. WHY so set on a breed that is quite likely to have some issues of perception if nothing else?
> 
> Is there some underlying reason for choosing a breed that is universally distrusted? There are plenty of mixed breeds or even pure bred dogs that do NOT have associated problems with them.
> 
> If your son is really set on getting a breed that is tagged with issues, he should consider going to the pound and saving a dog that is sure to be put to death and training it as a therapy dog or other service that benefits not only the community, but the overall reputation of the breed.


So if this was someone who said their german shepherd was being put down for biting his wife would you say the same? Stay away from ALL german shepherds?

A well bred pit bull should NEVER how human aggression.

The problem is the same we have with GSDs. BAck yard breeders. 

There are legitimate, responsible and ethical pit bull breeders out there. Find one. 




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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Sarah~ said:


> American Bully
> 
> Standard
> 
> ...


It's a mutt. Mixed bully breeds put together. APBT, corsos or neos for the Xl, staffies, even English bulldogs for the little guys etc. it's like the bandog. And it's ruining the dogs. Most of these people have no clue what they are doing. Are throwing dogs together based off of size or color. This kind of crap killed my dog. (Who was a papered (ukc aka crap) pit bull.) he was enormous. Beautiful. Amazing with kids. And had severe hip dysphasia an the most severe allergies I've ever seen in a dog. It even amazed our dermatologist. 

Personally i would go look for a pit bull breeder breeding mostly red nosed lines that actually work their pits. And ones you can see and pet! The parents. 


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Capone22 said:


> It's a mutt. Mixed bully breeds put together. APBT, corsos or neos for the Xl, staffies, even English bulldogs for the little guys etc. it's like the bandog. And it's ruining the dogs. Most of these people have no clue what they are doing. Are throwing dogs together based off of size or color. This kind of crap killed my dog. (Who was a papered (ukc aka crap) pit bull.) he was enormous. Beautiful. Amazing with kids. And had severe hip dysphasia an the most severe allergies I've ever seen in a dog. It even amazed our dermatologist.
> 
> Personally i would go look for a pit bull breeder breeding mostly red nosed lines that actually work their pits. And ones you can see and pet! The parents.
> 
> ...


I did say it's in development, and that there are way more bad ones than good. A lot of dog breeds came about by mixing dogs so yes it is a mutt technically. You are right Capone it may be better and easier to find a properly bred APBT than AmBully, if your son really wants a sound, healthy AmBully he may be looking for a very long time.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

My son likes stronger breeds. He would love a GSD but knows he does not have the time to exercise properly. His current dog was from a byb...only 6 weeks old when he got him. He doesn't want to make that mistake again. 

He wouldn't have time to train a dog for therapy etc. He would like a dog that doesn't require a lot of exercise. He has young children and both my son and his wife work. Fortunately on opposite schedules so someone would be home most of the time. And I live down the road so I wouldn't mind helping out. 

My only requirement is a dog that my Stella can play with....


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

APBT are usually DA. Very hard to find one that's not, and even if you do theres no guarantee it will stay that way.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

katdog5911 said:


> My son likes stronger breeds. He would love a GSD but knows he does not have the time to exercise properly. His current dog was from a byb...only 6 weeks old when he got him. He doesn't want to make that mistake again.
> 
> He wouldn't have time to train a dog for therapy etc. He would like a dog that doesn't require a lot of exercise. He has young children and both my son and his wife work. Fortunately on opposite schedules so someone would be home most of the time. And I live down the road so I wouldn't mind helping out.
> 
> My only requirement is a dog that my Stella can play with....


How about an English Bulldog. They don't need much exercise, have good temperaments, and are "manly".


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

Capone22 said:


> So if this was someone who said their german shepherd was being put down for biting his wife would you say the same? Stay away from ALL german shepherds?
> 
> A well bred pit bull should NEVER how human aggression.
> 
> ...


Find ONE! That seems to be the biggest problem for all APB onwers out there. Find a Well bred PB. There are WAY too many BYB... Do I think there are fewer GSD's ending up this way? No... FINDING a *legitimate* APB breeder is VERY difficult. Not so with GSD's or other breeds. 

The BYB issue is prevalent among ALL BREEDS. I am Only saying that if one is concerned about bully breed HA issues, staying away from certain traits in breeds is prudent. If I had been concerned about these issues, I would have gotten a tortoise. Obviously, I am not afraid of certain issues...


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

why financially support english bulldog breeders as suggested - they are collectively scum - it is now widespread that the breed is effectively no longer free breathers, free breeders or free whelpers, it would be an act of mercy to exterminate the entire breed.

strange that yr staffy became both dog and handle aggressive and bit yr wife, they are one of two breeds the UKC state as safe with children, not sure what the other breed is but the UKC have hundreds if not thousands of dog breeds and they only state two are safe with kids - yr is DA, HA, bites it own family and is destined to be PTS...one could ask what happened, what did YOU do to end up with a dangerous dog which is one of two breeds deemed blanket statement safe with kids??


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

x11 said:


> why financially support english bulldog breeders as suggested - they are collectively scum - it is now widespread that the breed is effectively no longer free breathers, free breeders or free whelpers, it would be an act of mercy to exterminate the entire breed.
> 
> strange that yr staffy became both dog and handle aggressive and bit yr wife, they are one of two breeds the UKC state as safe with children, not sure what the other breed is but the UKC have hundreds if not thousands of dog breeds and they only state two are safe with kids - yr is DA, HA, bites it own family and is destined to be PTS...one could ask what happened, what did YOU do to end up with a dangerous dog which is one of two breeds deemed blanket statement safe with kids??


I don't own the dog. (not a fan of pits) My son owns him. He has 2 kids and the dog has never done anything to them. Personally, I think the dog just isn't quite right in the head. I think he has a low threshold for excitement/stress and he goes into bite mode. There is no warning....just attack. He has always been aggressive and sketchy. He is fine with me, but even so, I don't trust the dog. He has been managed for 7 years, but biting the hand that feeds you.......?????


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

tough deal all round, nobody wants to see an innocent get hurt.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Would he consider a mastiff? I find them much less energy than a pit bull. 


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Scarlettsmom said:


> Find ONE! That seems to be the biggest problem for all APB onwers out there. Find a Well bred PB. There are WAY too many BYB... Do I think there are fewer GSD's ending up this way? No... FINDING a *legitimate* APB breeder is VERY difficult. Not so with GSD's or other breeds.
> 
> The BYB issue is prevalent among ALL BREEDS. I am Only saying that if one is concerned about bully breed HA issues, staying away from certain traits in breeds is prudent. If I had been concerned about these issues, I would have gotten a tortoise. Obviously, I am not afraid of certain issues...


It's not that difficult. You have to weed through them just as any other breed. There are also forums like this where you can talk to others to help find good breeders. 



Tell your son to look into an English mastiff. 


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

My son's dog Gotti was PTS yesterday. It was quite traumatic. My son couldn't bring himself to be there, so it was left to my daughter in law. I went with her to give her support. It was so very very sad. 

Thanks to all the advice given here, he has opted NOT to go with the pocket bully. He is going to get an English Mastiff. He is researching breeders at the moment, making phone calls etc. I am jealous.....I always wanted an English Mastiff. Besides GSDs, I love EMs and Great Danes. (can you tell I lean towards large dogs) But he wants me to help with the training and care so I get to me grandma to his dog! 

I am hoping Stella will have a new friend. I think I will start a new thread about how to introduce my girl to a little puppy....


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm so sorry for your son and his family's loss  


I think the Mastiff sounds like a great idea. A friend has three, and they're great dogs and fabulous with her small children. It sounds like it'll be a great fit


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

It's so hard to make that decision, sorry for your family's loss. English mastiffs are nice, I've met some mighty fearful ones in the last few years so just pay close attention to where the dog is coming from. Generally gentle and sweet, I adore them. I hope it all works out well for your son and his family 
The American bully thing drives me insane. I love the apbt and have dedicated years of my life to gaining knowledge of this breed. The American bully started out something like our king shepherds. People wanted to breed a huge, blue, 100lb, 32 inch head pit bull and started breeding other breeds in. They were being registered as apbts until enough of the true fanciers threw a fit. Proved the dogs were crossbred and so they had to change the name. Hence: American Bully. I believe they are bred for their size and colour first and foremost and would not be interested in having one as a family pet, and near useless as a working dog. Give me the small, real American pit bull terrier and you get a true dog. Well bred/raised they have an intensely high threshold for abuse from other dogs and people. Hope this doesn't offend anyone but here is a video about apbt vs American bully. I love this video lol.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

katdog5911 said:


> My son's dog Gotti was PTS yesterday. It was quite traumatic. My son couldn't bring himself to be there, so it was left to my daughter in law. I went with her to give her support. It was so very very sad.
> 
> Thanks to all the advice given here, he has opted NOT to go with the pocket bully. He is going to get an English Mastiff. He is researching breeders at the moment, making phone calls etc. I am jealous.....I always wanted an English Mastiff. Besides GSDs, I love EMs and Great Danes. (can you tell I lean towards large dogs) But he wants me to help with the training and care so I get to me grandma to his dog!
> 
> I am hoping Stella will have a new friend. I think I will start a new thread about how to introduce my girl to a little puppy....


So sorry about Gotti =(

But very happy he is going with an EM and taking the time to research a good breeder!! Can't wait for pics. :wub:


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