# Paging Dr. House



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099"> I just wanted to post all these symptoms to see if anyone here knows of any links or if they are simultaneous things happening.

Patient: 4 yr old spayed female,recently diganosed with pannus and atypical pannus. She is on dexamethosone sodium phoshate (3x a day,dropped to 2x a day) and cyclosprin drops (2x a day)

We started to change her food last week(she was itchy) to Evo Red Meat. The itchiness is worse (allergic to the beef?)...changing back to Innova.

Last week also noticed a foul smell. At which time,I see a very small sore on her lip fold. I clean the sore and start anti- biotics.(clindomyocin 150mg 3x a day) I continue flushing the area daily. She then rips it open playing with a toy. The smell was much better within a day.

Today,when looking at it. I notice an odor again. I find the same type of sore on the other side! This sore is in the fold of where her lip droops over on the side. Hard to heal spot. Clean it up....and start googling.

I fear it's pyoderma and make an appointment as soon as vet office opens.

She is eating,drinking pooping,peeing,acting normally. I don't believe she has a fever.

So any ideas? I don't know how much more I can take of this.</span>


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Let's see if Wilson has any ideas ....

Writing symptoms on the white board.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I don't know but I hope it is not serious! Could it be a reaction to the steriods for the Pannus?


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## JakesDogs (Jun 4, 2008)

What exactly does it smell like? (yes, it's important). Fungus vs bacterial vs etc. all have different odors.

Things like - Pure Rotten
Sweet Rotten
Antiseptic rotten.....

?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Lots of dogs get lip fold pyoderma and use Penaten creme for it: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=689948

But this sounds different. I hope it's something simple like lip fold pyoderma and not something more systemic.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: IntuitDog What exactly does it smell like? (yes, it's important). Fungus vs bacterial vs etc. all have different odors.
> 
> Things like - Pure Rotten
> Sweet Rotten
> ...


 <span style="color: #000099"> Could you describe them?

I saw that link Ruth,thanks!

</span>


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Paging Dr. House Vet update...*

<span style="color: #000099">Zephyr is scheduled for surgery Thursday morning...to clean her wounds and biopsy the skin tissue. The sample to be sent to Cornell.

Possible auto-immune disorder..ie Lupus, pemphigus...





















</span>


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Paging Dr. House Vet update...*

how long will it take to get the biopsy results back?


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Paging Dr. House Vet update...*

<span style="color: #3333FF">I am in shock and didn't ask. </span>


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: Paging Dr. House Vet update...*

Glad the sample is going to Cornell. You can also ask your Vet to get you in for a consult.

There is a lot of Good info on Nina's thread.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=798566&page=2&fpart=1

Sending you and Zephyr positive energy.

Val


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: Paging Dr. House Vet update...*

That's what I was afraid of. I hope it is something else!


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

*Re: Paging Dr. House Vet update...*

No advice, just reading, letting you know we all care and hoping for Zephyr's improvement!


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: Paging Dr. House Vet update...*



> Originally Posted By: natalie559No advice, just reading, letting you know we all care and hoping for Zephyr's improvement!


Ditto.


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Paging Dr. House Vet update...*

Awwww.....geeze.....hope your stomach is handling it. Give me a call if you need to. I'll be on the road Thursday as Dad's surgery is Friday. We can keep in touch via phone or text.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: Paging Dr. House Vet update...*

Really nasty breath could be indicative of something wrong along the GI tract too. If there is GI tract pathology (infection or out of whack Ph balance or bacteria), this could affect mucus membranes, including of course, the mouth. 

Might originate in the upper respiratory tract too. A simple fox tail up her nose that is very infected might have this effect. In humans, we would also look for systemic causes such as diabetes, uremia (issues arising from kidney problems), or liver issues. 

In other words, it could be something quite simple. Might be more serious but easily treated, or managed. I'm not quite sure I'd assume it's auto-immune yet. Actually, I wouldn't make ANY assumptions yet. There is too little information here. 

I'll keep Zephyr in my prayers. You too.







The Normal Fairy already left for New York yesterday. She should have arrived by now and is setting up shop.









Keep us posted.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Paging Dr. House Vet update...*



> Originally Posted By: KathyWI don't know but I hope it is not serious! Could it be a reaction to the steriods for the Pannus?


Max had a systemic reaction to the steroid drops, and I can see a lowered resistance to infection, particularly near the head, being a result of the drops in some dogs. 

Or...whatever triggered the pannus at this point in time might be more systemic than local. 

If it is phemigus, I ran across an interesting protocol which looked much more promising than the typical steroids. It was just agter someone had posted on this board about it. If necessary, I can try to find it again. 

The good news is that you are getting a jump on this, getting that culture done asap, so you will now what you are or are not dealing with, and also starting treatment before things have become uncontrollable.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

No words of wisdom just a


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099">Thanks everyone...I really need those hugs.

Well, tomorrow is the biopsy day. Besides being anxious about the diagnosis, I am also really scared about Zephyr going under and being scared when she "comes to."







</span>


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have noticed a scabiness - peeling dead layer of skin - off the corners of Koug's mouth now too - the pred is an immune system depressant as well - so I'd ask if the drops are further depressing her immune system and contributing to the sores.

Good Luck!

Lee


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099"> Thanks!

Zephyr has two vets, the opthalmologist and the team at Cornell in her corner. I pray they can help her.</span>


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Cornell is wonderful, they won't give up finding out waht is wrong.

Zephyr will be fine.

Sending hugs to you and "Z"

Val


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099">Thanks Val. unfortunately I know Cornell very well. Between Jean and I, we should have our own wing named after us.

Thanks for the hugs.







</span>


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

Sounds like she will be in good hands......







to you both!!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I will send you all the hugs you need and more if it will help.

Val


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## localhost (Jun 20, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowLots of dogs get lip fold pyoderma and use Penaten creme for it: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=689948


As BowWowMeow mentioned, that thread discussing lip fold pyoderma is a must read.


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## localhost (Jun 20, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Wolfstraum
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wolfstraum,

Having studied my GSD's lips, and then every other dog I bumped into on walks over the past few years (after her pyoderma episode) the flakiness/scabiness is not uncommon and typical of dogs with droopy lips such as a german shepherd. I freaked when I noticed this too, but it is normal.


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

Jasstorm,
Zephyr is in good hands if you already have an opthomologist (a must) and the biopsies are being handled at Cornell.

Since Skye was diagnosed with Pannus we hav had a copuple of other scares. She lost coloring around her nose and Lupus was a concern. It did not go on to the lip area and it turned out she had some type of multiple bacterial things going on. It took about three weeks to clear up and they said her nose would stay partly whiteish-pink.

Funny - much later she was on a different med for a sinus type infection and her nose was black by the time she finished them.

Skye has had no bad reactions to the pannus meds, but I know some dogs do. She does have environmental allergies and I give her shots. She has been on just optimune for some time - originally 2X a day, but now 1X. I bump it back up to 2X if the sun or snow is really bright and her eyes begin to redden.

The bad news is that our dogs with immune type issues seem to have mulitple problems. The good news is that if we stay on top of them, most are treatable.

I will be thinking of you and Zephry during the biopsy and the wait after. Hang on and keep us updated.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #3333FF"> Thanks Bonnie.







</span>


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Skye'sMomThe bad news is that our dogs with immune type issues seem to have mulitple problems. The good news is that if we stay on top of them, most are treatable.


Definitely something worth repeating!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

hmmm - this dog ONLY gets the peeling at the "corner" of his mouth - upper and lower junction....and none of my other dogs (past and present) have ever had this - it was suggested to me long ago that it was immune system related.

Lee


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

[/quote]

Wolfstraum,

Having studied my GSD's lips, and then every other dog I bumped into on walks over the past few years (after her pyoderma episode) the flakiness/scabiness is not uncommon and typical of dogs with droopy lips such as a german shepherd. I freaked when I noticed this too, but it is normal.

[/quote] 

Same with Baer. No issue with Pannus, but he had that same droopy and flaky lips. Most of our older dogs had it in some form or another.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Jazzstorm sending you and "Z" postive energy this morning and of course the cyber hugs. 

Val


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)




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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

again - it is one dog - at corners - his lips are not flappy or droopy or loose there or anywhere - this is a different thing - which apparently I am not explaining well enough for some...I know what you (collectively) are talking about - this is different. 

Thinking of Zephyr - please don't worry too much - I am sure they will take good care of her and she will come through the biopsy fine!

Lee


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> Jazzstorm sending you and "Z" postive energy this morning and of course the cyber hugs.


From our "Z" household to yours... lots of positive energy and cyberhugs as well.









Waiting for info.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Wolfstraumagain - it is one dog - at corners - his lips are not flappy or droopy or loose there or anywhere - this is a different thing - which apparently I am not explaining well enough for some...I know what you (collectively) are talking about - this is different.


Yeah, it sounds immune related, unless this dog is chewing on something that is causing this.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Wolfstraumagain - it is one dog - at corners - his lips are not flappy or droopy or loose there or anywhere - this is a different thing - which apparently I am not explaining well enough for some...I know what you (collectively) are talking about - this is different.
> ...


And it has gotten much worse now with him getting pred drops....

Lee


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Wolfstraum
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: LisaT
> ...


Then I might go with something infectious - yeast, Staph, something, particularly if the pred drops have made it worse. If you get a chance, also look at the back of the throat while yawning -- just to see if it's a bit red.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

Zephyr is home now. She made it through the surgery fine. She had quite a bit of tissue taken from both sides of her mouth. She has stitches and the e-collars (which she hates) She is still acting a bit funny...barking at my daughter when she came home,whining and trying to sleep sitting up...I think it's from the anesthetia. She is on anti-biotic and an anti-inflammatory,plus her drops. She doesn't seem hungry...should I push it or wait until morning?

The vet is baffled by her eyes as they get worse from day to day.(hour to hour IMO) She took pics to send to the opthalmologist. Two weeks ago you could barely see anything wrong with her eyes,now they are nearly covered. 

My main concern is getting her surgery sites to heal. I am very nervous about this.

The biopsy results will take 5-7 long days.

The initial results suggest a systemic autoimmune disease. 


Thank you for all the prayers,well wishes and concern. It is greatly appreciated.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

What antibiotic?


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

Cephalexin.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Glad to hear Zephyr is home.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Me too. Extremly glad. Please give her a very gentle kiss on the nose for me.


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

Soft hugs for Zephyr. Don't rush the eating - anesthetics can make them a bit naseaus.

She will eat when hungry. Just make sure she can a few drinks when she needs them.

Hang in there, Zephyr. Skye says she is so sorry you have stitches. She didn't like them when she had them in her nose, either but they heal fast. 

It's going to be a long week.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I am glad that Zephyr made it through surgery. I second the suggestion to hold off on food until she is feeling better. 

I am very sorry to hear about her eyes and the potential auto-immune disease. 

I'll keep Zephyr and your family in my thoughts!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Jazzstorm Zephyr will feel better and more like eating tommorow after a nice restful night at home.

I have no suggestions for the e-cone except that she will have to be unhappy until the stitches come out.

Cyber hugs to both of you.

Val


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Ceph is tough on the digestive system. As far as I know, it's not an antibiotic with much anti-inflammatory action, but it may still help the eyes, maybe not. 

Deep breaths until you get those results back in.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099">Zephyr had a rough time with the cephalexin last night. Anyone have any food suggestions that might help this...would a piece of bread help? I don't want to give her any meds.

What's weird is after she threw up,my stomach was upset too.

The good news is when I brought her outside she wanted to play with her soccer ball. The bad news she HATES the e-collar,but has to wear it for 7 days. I am trying to let her rest quietly as much as possible and hope she heals quickly. </span>


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099">I forgot who mention that their dog didn't respond to the dexamethasone sodium phosphate drops.

If that person reads this could you tell me what you saw in the eyes to know this? </span>


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

Does Zephyr have to be the Ceph? LJ can't take it. What about Baytril? That one seems to be easier on the digestive tract.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

You might want to call the Vet and see if there is a different ABX. Not sure if they could get a drug sensitivity back that fast or they are useing Ceph because it is normally good for this type of problem.

None of my dogs had problems with Ceph., but I have see some dogs that do.

What I do is feed them first, give ABX. Then 4 - 6 hours later I give Probioitics. When Lakota is on Ceph, I will some times homecook for him for a few weeks.

Val


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I don't have any advice or input, just a


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

How is Zephyr doing today-have been reading...worrying.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099">Zephyr didn't want to eat this morning. Hubby got her to take her pills in a tuna sandwhich. No pukies







She has never been a chow hound...so I am not that worried. I still sent him to the store to get some wet food.

On a great note...we have good poopy!







</span>


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

What I posted before is the only way I can get Lakota's tummy from getting toasted on Ceph. He has to eat first, then Ceph, then 4-6 hours later Probioitics, then supper and meds again, Oh plus home cooking.

Val


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

The probiotics really do help.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

If there is a remote chance that doxy will help with whatever they give the Ceph for, I would use that. Doxy is good in autoimmune cases, because of it's anti-inflammatory action.

If the drops don't work, you see the regular pannus stuff, even if it's not pannus I think. When Max's meds don't work, stuff grows in his eyes, his 3rd eyelids are really really red and often inflamed.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099">Thanks all. I have been supplementing with some probiotics...I alway do with abx.

She ate some canned food and was begging for some of our dinner....to me a great sign. I think maybe she is having trouble chewing the kibble...even though we didn't think that would be an issue.

Another good sign...barking at dogs and kitties on the tv! </span>


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Glad to hear that she ate. I understand how worried you must be but try to keep things positive for your sweet, beautiful girl!


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## Sean Rescue Mom (Jan 24, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: JazzstormShe ate some canned food and was begging for some of our dinner....to me a great sign.


Sounds like she has her appetite back and, yes, that is a very good sign. Sending positive thoughts for your girl.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

How is Zephyr doing?


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099">Hi Ruth









Zephyr's incisions seem to be healing well. She has been trying to itch them,which I see as a good sign.

Her appetite is ok. I've had to break open her abx,mix them into moist food and heat it up...becaiuse she smells those pills a mile away. I also have to be VERY quiet while opening the bottle and remain nonchalant.







I also have to hide the chinese herb pills which are only "BB" size...but now Zephyr is just not having ANY pills,LOL

Her eyes were very bad. Both vets said they have never seen anything like this (meaning the rapid progression while on meds) We've been playing around with dosages. We dropped the cyclosporine drops because I felt they were making things worse. We are doing the dexy drops alone....and I feel there has been a slight improvement within 2 days.

Other than that she wants to play ball and chew her bone (which we hid) The results aren't back from Cornell yet. </span>


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I would be giving doxy, only because Max's eyes improved, and some of his stuff went away. It's also an immune system modulator, and would help with anything that is autoimmune.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099">Continuously? I will ask about it... </span>


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Oh I totally understand the pill giving. I started Cheyenne on Glucs. because she was starting to be getting a little stiff. Well I tried hiding them in raw ground meat her favorite, she is a chewer not a gulper so if her teeth hit any thing she spits it out. Then we went to dropping them down her throat, but she is so handler sensitive, she would go hide her face when every I got close to her. She still won't eat a ball of ground meat, she will take it and spit it out. But if I flatten it so she knows there is nothing hidden fine no problem.

With her Glucos. I just dissolve the pills and mix some home made stew stuff in and toss with her kibble. She will happily take it that way. But I am sure if I have to ever do ABX with her again, it will be shoving them down her throat. 

So I totally feel for you. Darn dogs.

Val


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099"> Val, I can put a pill all the way down Zephyr's throat and she will still bring it up! She just wiggles her tongue around until she can spit it out...LOL I've never had a dog that could do that!

Yesterday I was taking my supplements,she ran away when she heard me shake the capsules out,hehe.</span>


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Cleo is like that! If I shake a bottle of herbs to give one of the dogs or myself she goes flying out of the room! 

I am glad that she seems to be feeling ok. I would guess the pannus is accelerating if her whole system is out of whack? 

You must be on pins and needles about the results. Big hugs to you, Zephyr and your family!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm <span style="color: #000099">Continuously? I will ask about it... </span>


Yeah. I use the health of Max's eyes to determine when to cycle him off and on it. I'm hoping this new stuff will avoid so much use of it. BUT, it's the only thing that has kept him in check -- all his body systems it seems. We have determined, we think, that the doxy is working on the inflammation, and he really doesn't have a screaming infection throughout his system.

There's a new drug being advertised on tv for psoriasis, at least for the inflammation that goes along with it. It's low dose doxy.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

My St.Bernard mix would actually swallow his heartworm pill and within two minutes I could watch him rechit (sp) his gut and spit the pill out...... GGGRRR.

For Zephyr have you tried holding her mouth shut and gently blowing in her nose. It makes the dog swallow so she can't use her tongue to get it out of her mouth.

Val


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm <span style="color: #000099">Continuously? I will ask about it... </span>
> ...


 <span style="color: #000099">


What's the dosage you suggest? Also...what if Zephyr gets some kind of infection? I am concerened about abx overuse. </span>


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerMy St.Bernard mix would actually swallow his heartworm pill and within two minutes I could watch him rechit (sp) his gut and spit the pill out...... GGGRRR.
> 
> For Zephyr have you tried holding her mouth shut and gently blowing in her nose. It makes the dog swallow so she can't use her tongue to get it out of her mouth.
> 
> Val


 <span style="color: #000099">Yes I have held her mouth and blown into her nose. She can still not swallow....like I said she is something else.

Right now mixing it in the food is working great. This morning she had whitefish and sweet potatoe...loved it! </span>


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: LisaT
> ...


It's absolutely a concern. Inflammatory dosages could be lower than regular dosages, it would have to be tweeked, and longterm you would have to worry about fungal issues too.

HOWEVER, for me, if it comes down to antibiotics or steroids, I'm going with the antibiotics. Well, actually, I don't have much of a choice, neither of my dogs will tolerate steroids.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #000099">I understand why my vet put Zephyr on the cephalexin. It's a good abx for healing the skin,which she needed.

Zephyr is healing well as far as I can tell. It's unbelievable how much better her eyes have gotten within a couple of day of NOT taking the cyclosporin drops. I can't tell you how bad her eyes were....it was horrifying. Although,some think it's not probable...I think they are linked to her problems. She is also taking her chinese herbs. I am starting slowly and then getting her up to proper dosage.

AS of yesterday,still no results. </span>


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Biopsy results!*

<span style="color: #000099">The findings of Zephyr's (mouth sores) biopsy, is not a diagnosis but more of a description. Cornell has called it a sterile pyogranulomatous. There are no fungal,bacterial, or infectious components. They feel that this is NOT an autoimmune disease. (the pannus is though) A dermotologist was also consulted and agreed.

I knew in my heart that it wasn't, and am convinced that it was something in the cyclosporin drops.

Anyway,I feel this is good news.







</span>


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Biopsy results!*

That's good news. The tough part will be controlling the pannus. Take note on if her eyes stay better once the Ceph is stopped.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Biopsy results!*

<span style="color: #000099">I definately will. She was on the cephalexin for 4-5 days before I stopped the drops though...after discontinuing the cyclosporin drops her eyes were noticeably better after 2 missed doses and continue to get better....strange huh? </span>


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Biopsy results!*

I only give Max his eye stuff every 3-5 days, whatever I can get away with -- they all have an impact on his eyes. Btw, the cyclosporin drops were the worst -- much worse than the ointment.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Biopsy results!*

<span style="color: #000099"> Zephyr is going back for a check-up on Tuesday...no charge! They will check her eyes too. I think her eyes will be controlled with the dexy drops...and hopefully weaned down on frequency. I also believe the herbs will help...I am being positive!</span>


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Biopsy results!*

Thank goodness. Gracie's been on doxy since mid-January. I know another GSD who's been on doxy for a year for megaE. THanks for writing me to check here.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: Biopsy results!*

I missed this update! So glad for the positive news!









I can't remember what Massie was on for her pannus, definitely drops but I do remember the pharmacist had to do a special mixture for her as she didn't respond well enough to the standard drops.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

She threw up this morning and then I noticed her nose was bleeding. I checked her gums and they were pale.

They are running tests.
Please pray for her.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Where is she at? You did great checking everything. 

Use your Reiki if you can. 

Aspergillus is that weird one with the nose bleeding. I don't know a lot about it. Just thinking of it though, common in GSDs. 








is my main message and good thoughts and prayers for you all.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

hope you find out what it is soon!!! thoughts coming your way!!


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Prayers coming your way!


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Sending best wishes to you and Zephyr


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Poor baby!


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

She's at Macedon...I didn't wamt to further stress her by bringing her to a place she didn't know. At least she knows the people there....I am a mess. I. Can't. Do. This.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

_*Zooming tons of good thoughts East*_


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Do they have any ideas? This is scary and she's not my dog-but I've met her-you must be going crazy. 

http://www.oxyglobin.com/oxy_for_pets.php
was something that they gave to Kramer when his packed cell volume was so low the first time. Just something to keep in the back of your mind-it really perked him up. 

Ugh. 










and Mario and Ilsa send their XOXO to her too.


----------



## LHunter82FXRS (Oct 20, 2008)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Chico and I are sending good thoughts and prayers your way


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Tick disease? Ehrlichia or Anaplasmosa? If they are going to try an antibiotic, maybe ask them if they can try doxycycline? Look for anemia, low platelets, white blood cell count may or may not be elevated. It could also be other things, but this is a base that maybe should be covered if they can't determine the cause. Remember that the blood tests are often wrong with tick diseases.

I don't think Aspergillus would have the vomiting, but I may be wrong. Aspergilllus in the nose (anywhere) is nasty, going through the nose stuff with Max.

Hang in there


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

didn't want to say...but are going back to something auotimmune. She said something about bone marrow....I don't know.

I'm going to puke.......


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I told them to run a tick panel...


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

TONS and TONS of prayers for Zephyr beaming out her way right now. I am so sorry that you are so scared-- I would be also! May this be something nowehere near as scary. Wishing for the vet's hands and mind to be guided into doing all for Zephyr that she needs in determining an accurate diagnosis, and an easy to achieve treatment plan. May she come through this crisis well. We are all pulling for you, sweetie Zephyr! Prayers flowing to Zephyr now.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Maybe the IMHA-immune mediated anemia? If so, definitely take a look at the oxyglobin-I am not sure, but think that is one of the main things it is used for.


----------



## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

gosh this is scary. all best thoughts going north.

MJ


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANMaybe the IMHA-immune mediated anemia?


Yep, I think that's a rule out disease. 

Every other IMHA dog I've seen on the boards, had only that as a symtpom -- not stuff like the eyes and the sores, seems like something more, but who the heck knows with these dogs???


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: JazzstormI told them to run a tick panel...










Hope they find something and can treat.


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Hugs to you and healing thoughts for Miss Zephyr. The bleeding from the nose is very scary. I went thought that with Lakota, he had a Staph Infection in his nose and sinus cavities. The sis Xrays looking for masses, none there, did the Rhinoscope looking for somthing that wasn't showing up on the Xrays and did a sinus flush with culture and sesitivity to identiy what it was and get the best drug of choice.

Here is the info on Aspergillus
http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/nose/c_multi_aspergillosis

Other fungal Infections:
Blastomycosis:
http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/respiratory/c_multi_blastomycosis
Histoplasmosis 
http://www.vetinfo.com/dfungal.html
http://www.petmd.com/print/166

Hugs again
Val


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Side effect of the cephalexin?

Those other links are too scary..........


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I was just going to go digging for side effects of Cheph. The Staph one about Lakota isn't scary, the others can be if not diagnosed properly.


----------



## ded37 (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Zephyr is in my thoughts.


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## Lynn_P (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Sending positive thoughts... and prayers.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

The common side effect of Ceph is vomiting and Diarrhea. But those are the common ones. 

I will be checking back in during the day. Fingers crossed.

Val


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Initial results back.

Everything is normal, platelets alittle low.

175-500 being normal hers are 170.

She has a low grade fever 103

Negative for ticks and heartworms.

Mucous membranes all pale.

She is acting fine.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Wow. What's next? X-rays? Ultrasound? I have no idea.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I would treat with doxy if they find no other cause, but that's me. Fever, low platelets, nose bleed, is enough for me to have a preference for abx. Do make sure they don't do anything like put her on a steroid. That's what they normally do for IMHA, but the fever contraindicates that. IF they put her on a steroid anyway, demand she be pulled off the second she declines. 

Still could be something else, but I'd cover my bases.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

ACK--I just saw this! Much healing energy going out to Zephyr and calming energy to you! 

I thought side effect of a medicine but that is a very extreme reaction. I'm sorry, I'm of no use in the autoimmune department.









What the heck is going on? I hope they figure it out very quickly.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Something to consider, she still has this in spite of the Ceph. I don't know if Ceph can cause low platelets, but it shouldn't cause a fever. The reaction to the immune suppressant also says her system was alreay under stress. 

You knew something was wrong...


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## AniasGSDs (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

*I feel for you!!!!! *

What's left of my strength goes out to you and Zephyr!!!!!


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Just read Val's post above. The vomiting definitely could be from the Ceph. Indy vomits within 15 minutes of it, and she almost never vomits.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

The thing is her white blood cells are normal....

Zephyr's main vet is coming in (on her day off) to check her.

They said they may want to put her on abx and steroids.

I just don't know....I am scared.

Her last dose of cephalexin was last night...


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Sending prayers out to Zephyr and hugs to you.


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Rare Cephalexin Side Effects
Rare side effects with cephalexin occur in less than 1 percent of people taking the drug. Because these side effects are so uncommon, it is difficult to tell whether they are because of the medication or something else.

Some of these rare side effects include but are not limited to:

(edited)

* Low platelets in the blood (thrombocytopenia)


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Max had low platelets from azithromycin. But the Ceph doesn't explain the fever. 

WBC need not be elevated. 

Please try abx alone first with no steroids. Who give abx to a dog with a fever?

Btw, they didn't run a tick panel, can't do it that fast. They must have run a SNAP?

I would do abx, pull blood and send it to Protatek, and recheck platelets in a couple of days with your regular vet.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Btw, Max's platelets were 165 after his abx, but his run at the lower end already. When was the last time Zeph had bloodwork?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Could she be bleeding from anywhere? Is it that kind of pale? But her red cell count is good?

I hate tossing out all this stuff at you. 

Like Lupus-I always ask my vet about Lupus. He always says it's never Lupus (like House) and I







but he's right. But just in case. 

When I think of how weird all her symptoms are, and how it seems to be a few different things all happening at once, I think Cornell. Just to have in the back of the mind for whenever. 

I am quick to hit the panic button however. As you know!

Continued good thoughts-glad her vet is going to check on her. So sweet.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I agree Cornell is a good option, but there is a question of what do to now. 

Look what happened with a certain immune suppressant given only in the eye? And now they want to give systemic immune suppressant. I could see that at the point where the platelets are dangerously low, but they aren't there yet. Common sense says to treat the fever, but don't throw stuff at it cuz you can, throw stuff at it because it makes sense.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I jinxed my poor girl by naming this thread...what I did.

Zephyr's vet just called.

Mucous membranes have color now, Zephyr is acting fine.
Everyone is stumped.

The vet doesn't want to put her on the doxy....baytril and steroids.

At the very least the steroids will help her eyes which are still bad.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

The fever was slight and she thinks maybe because of Zephyr's excitement.

Remember we are not dealing with a "normal" dog here. She is very skittish, strange buildings being her trigger.

Yeah snap test. We discussed tick disease in depth. She said she really doesn't see Zephyr's symptoms as being a TBD.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Cornell has an emergency service-not an appointment type thing. 

Since we don't have a clue as to what this could be at all-it just seems too confusing-and I know it has to be very upsetting and hard to figure out what is what or what to do next.

I am just sorry that this is happening.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

At this point the only thing Cornell can do is run, an autoimmune test which isn't very accurate.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Given Zephyr's temperment...going to Cornell on a whim would probably be detrimental at this point. It's hard to know what to do....


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Of course the vet doesn't see tick disease. 

I hope the drug combo does the trick. I wouldn't do it, but I really hope that I am wrong. 

If the eyes get better, you won't know why, could be the baytril. Max's got better on the baytril.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

In her defense she saw the TBD in my foster Kayto.

You don't think the steroids will help her eyes? 

UUUUGGGHHH...I just don't know.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I wonder if a little of her acupuncture would do anything for anything? She is so good at that stuff-Bruno says so. 

Again


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

If the eyes respond, you wonakt know why is what I am saying. 

Ehrlichia can be a silent killer, vets don't usually recognize it. Did your other dog have ehrlichia or anaplasmosa?

I do think that Baytil may have some effect on ehrkichia, I would do a search to verify - I'm almost at work, can't do one myself. If this is the case, that's good. Max responded to Baytril, and his eyes did too. That was the first abx he was ever on.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Yes he had erhlichiosis...among other things.

If Zephyr had a tick disease they said that symptoms like these would have come up positive on the snap test. It's only been 6 mos since her tick bite.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I wondered immediately if there was some bleeding internally for her to be shocky....but if color is back....???

Keeping you and Zephyer in my thoughts - sending good vibes!
























Lee


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

More positive thoughts... and prayers.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

The SNAP is not sensitive for ehrlichia and Anaplasmosa. It won't register if the dog is not mounting a strong antibody response, which can happen in either low level infection, or chronic infection. Ther might also be other organism that ticks transmit that we don't have tests for. 

One of the reasons I like doxy is not only for infection, but it is immune system modulating. Google baytril and anti-inflammatory. If it's an abx that does that, I further question the need for steroids.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I admit that I am prejudiced against them b/c a vet insisted on giving Cleo a steroid shot and it caused a lot of problems for her. 

My concern about steroids is that they mask symptoms and sometimes cause things to return with a vengeance when they are discountinued. They are also an immunosuppresent which, I realize, is indicated if it's an autoimmune disorder but so far there is no diagnosis for Zephyr so... 

ETA: oops, got cut off there. I meant to say that I would want a definitive diagnosis before starting steroids! 

And I am glad that Zephyr is feeling better!


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Except her eyes....her body is attacking her eyes with a vengeance.

I am not sure Zephyr was shocky,what does a shocky dog act like?

Jumping all around,into the truck for a ride? I dunno.???


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

OMG...my brain is starting to shut down....


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

To me, the one issue, right now, is whether you give the steroids, even if you bring them home with you. They may have already given her a shot?


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I don't think they gave her a shot....

My husband is picking Zephyr up in an hour or so,I will be on the phone.

(I have to be home to get my daughter off the bus)

I am back and forth about it....the steroids will probably help her eyes, but I know the bad things too.

I am confused now...


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*


































































Dam these dogs for making us go gray!!!! Check your e-mail, Vick.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I understand how the steroid is indicated for the eyes (although I wasn't aware that they gave them internally in addition to topically) but it just seems important to figure out what's going on with Zephyr. Her immune system is clearly out of whack and it can't all be coming from the pannus!









And Vickie, I understand how frustrating and scary and confusing this is for you because of course you want to do the best thing for Zephyr and it's not at all clear what that is right now.







I also understand not wanting to haul her around to different vets b/c Chama is the same way about the vet.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

If her eyes are not responding to the steroid drops now, I question whether they will respond to systemic steroids. They could, but it doesn't quite make sense to me. 

I know I'm not letting this going, and I'm sorry if it's stressful, but there is a real risk with the steroid, and I'm not sure I see the benefit, particularly since her color, etc, seems to be rebounding. 

Now if you are going to do a trial to rule out lupus, I understand that, but I would still do abx first, so you don't create an infection out of control with the steroids.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Her eyes are better with the dexy drops. 

I am a nervous wreck...waiting for a phone call.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Oh Vickie.







I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions. But I'm praying and sending healing thoughts just as hard as I can.










C'mon Zephyr.







You can do it!


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

<span style="color: #000099">Ok just talked with the vet. Baytril will cover TBD...except Lyme (we are pretty sure it wouldn't be that) Treating the fever...

Steroids are for her nose bleed,which they feel is a strong indication of an autoimmune disease.

Her coloring is still not normal but better.

She goes back for bloodwork Thursday....they said by then they should know what's working.</span>


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*











































Good talking to you. I hope it helped pass the time until 3:00. Fingers and paws crossed here.


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## SimplySleepie (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Sending many good thoughts to you and Zephyr


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

The nosebleed is a sign of an autoimmune disease? Don't low platelets cause nosebleeds? I think any abnormality with platelets causes nosebleeds. Toxins also cause nosebleeds and I'm sure lots of infectious diseases too. 

Did they scope her nose, just in case there's a growth or something in there?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

It sounds like they are guessing Ruth.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Vickie, it is a few days yet until the Biopsie results come back correct? I will be interested in seeing/hearing what those results are, it might shed some light on what is going on now.

I know this is all so confusing, but some times you need to wait for the results before we jump to conclusions and treatments. The Baytril is fine I agree with that, since it is possible that Ceph isn't agreeing with Zephyr.

Was the bleeding from the nose a lot or just a little. For a few minutes Lakota's was a little stream, but he laid quietly and it slowed down then stopped. By the time we got in to see the Vet there was no bleeding. 

I think they might not have wanted to scope Zephyr because she was just under anethesia the other day for surgery and didn't really want to put her under again.

Val


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Val, I think this was the biopsy report?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...t=2#Post1050770


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I'm so sorry to hear Zephyr is still experiencing so many problems. I truly hope the vets are able to pinpoint what's going on and get her on the road to recovery. 

We'll be thinking about you both and wishing you the best.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

How is Zephyr doing this evening?


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Zephyr did...ok last night. She ate very little. Her nose is still bleeding,not alot just some drips.

I made an appointment today to get blood drawn for a Coombs Test,and full tick panel. It will be sent to Cornell and maybe Protatek.

At this point everyone is guessing. None of her symptoms and tests are adding up to anything specific. Just when we think we have isolated something, a test proves it really isn't that.

Zephyr really needs prayers.


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## AniasGSDs (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Sending lots your way!!!!


----------



## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Zephyr get better, just get better.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Hope she is stronger now and stable!!!!!! Shocky is when the gums are pale - usually indicating a bleed somewhere....but apparetnly that was not the case...

prayers for you and zephyer....
























Lee


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Her coloring looks good this morning....and funny her eyes look way better!

WTH????

She is still not eating as well as I would like. I am not sure if she's been spoiled with the canned food and hand feeding...or just not interested. Maybe she just isn't hungry because she hasn't been exercising like she normally would. (?????)


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

MORE prayers for Zephyr. May this be something where the tests come back with an "Ah-hah" moment, a clear, definitive diagnosis for something treatable! I am hoping that Zephyr gets a bit hungrier. Could it be any of the meds, testing, or handling at the vets that may be upsetting her tummy a bit? Not sure how sensitive she may be to such experiences. I am glad that her color looks good to you!!

More prayers beaming out to Zephyr!


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Just saw this....







Zephyr









I hope you get an answer soon...before you pull all your hair out!! I wish our guys could talk to us and tell us whats wrong


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I am glad she looks and seems to feel better. Is she normally a reluctant eater? Perhaps it's from the stress of yesterday's vet visit?


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Vickie, Just checking in on you and Zyphyr today.

I am glad the bleeding stopped. I wish they could figure out what is going on with her. Hugs to you.

Val


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: JazzstormHer coloring looks good this morning....and funny her eyes look way better!
> 
> WTH????
> 
> She is still not eating as well as I would like. I am not sure if she's been spoiled with the canned food and hand feeding...or just not interested. Maybe she just isn't hungry because she hasn't been exercising like she normally would. (?????)


If it's a quick response to abx, that is often seen with tick disease.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

How is Zephyr this evening?


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANCould she be bleeding from anywhere? Is it that kind of pale? But her red cell count is good?
> 
> I hate tossing out all this stuff at you.
> 
> ...


I had the dog who "couldn't be Lupus."
She presentedthe same way. First with lameness, then swollen joints. Bleeding from the gums and nose followed, with platelet crashes soon afterward. Her autoimmune panel came up indecisive.
On a positive note, we treated her successfully for years.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

<span style="color: #000099"> Update...sort of. I decided not give the prednisone. Zephyr's blood was drawn yesterday(her color was good according to the vet....she stated that it was really hard to tell on Zephyr) and will be sent to Cornell. They will run tests for tick disease and autoimmune disease. If those come back negative...we will run tests for fungal stuff.

Her nose didn't bleed all day yesterday,but bled alittle at night. This seems to be the pattern....strange as that sounds. She is eating and acting fine,although I am limiting her activity and encouraging her to rest as much as possible. I saw her poop earlier but haven't been out to check it yet.

Her eyes are looking better though,one good thing.


Thanks for the good thoughts and prayers!</span>


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

When will the platelets be rechecked. 

I sure hope you find something. Max tests negative for everything just about, and that's difficult to treat. 

I'm glad that clinically she is doing much better!!


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

<span style="color: #000099"> Zephyr did very well yesterday and last night. No nosebleeds,ate very well. She really wants to play and was teasing me yesterday by talking and grabbing her toys. I let her play the laundry basket game a bit, but am still leary of letting her run around alot.....even though she wants to.

Now it's a matter of waiting for the latest test results.

Thanks to everyone has been concerned about my baby girl.</span>


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Glad to hear the bleeding seems to have stop. I hope that's a permanent thing!


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

<span style="color: #000099">Me too! Now that she is feeling better I have to concentrate on myself. I am exhausted and haven't been eating right. I can't allow my immune system to get weak, as we have some suspected swine flu in our town! </span>


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Definitely get rested up, and don't forget your extra C, etc.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Thinking about you and Zephyr!!! 

Lee


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Just checking in and hoping that everything is still going as well!


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Bad morning, please pray. I'm scared.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

_*Zooming good thoughts your way and tons of







*_


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Let me know if you need anything. I have a work thing but will be here a while more.


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Sorry to hear this-pure positive thoughts up to Zephyr.

MJ


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Just a thought - has Zephyer had any vaccines lately??? Lots of things can be brought on by immune system response to a vaccine - a bordatella really triggered some horrible reactions in Kelsey!

Hope she is improving! And you are taking care of yourself!

Lee


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

What's going on??????


----------



## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Haven't heard. I'll let you know if I hear anything!


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I have to be gone for a while, but I will check back as soon as I get back from my meeting. 

Sending strength and healing vibes to Zephyr.


----------



## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Just heard from Vickie - nose bleed and bloody diarrhea. More tests run. ANA was low positive which is only incidative of inflammation in system NOT autoimmune disorder.

She's asking for lots of prayers and good wishes - for not only Zeph but for herself too - she is just beside herself with worry.



























































Luv ya, girlfriend!!


----------



## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Okay, I just read through this whole thread and OMG I feel so bad for Vick and Zeph!! Hugs, prayers, mojo everything headed their way!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Whoa. 

Have they/can they do a blood culture? I have no idea if that would help to identify anything but remember that was one thing they did as they were ruling things out with Nina that seemed to give them some important information (I think more as to what it wasn't but that's helpful too). 

My gosh. 

Here is a thing on Lupus-no idea if Dr. Richards is a good source but posting because of the ANA results:
http://www.ccsplace.net/4friends/lupus.htm


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I just got home and I'm really hoping that things are looking up for Zephyr. 

I think the ANA can indicate many different things besides lupus. 

What about the platelet count today?


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

OH shoot, I just got back and I was hoping for better news.

I have to go find the Dena thread. There was some info there that might be helpful here.

Val


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

HGE would acount for the stomache problems and bloody diahhrea but not the bleeding from the nose.

http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/dogdiseasesh/a/HGEindogs.htm

AIHA could also be a possibility but I hope not.
http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/health/aiha.htm

Val


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Hi all....

Zephyr is resting. Her bloodwork came back the same as Monday. Nothing out of the ordinary,platelets still the same. All vitals normal.

She had a major nosebleed this afternoon,but it starts and stops quickly. 

Our first order of business is to get the diarrhea under control. She is on metronidazole and a bland diet,also some canine probiotics. I was going to fast her for a bit,but she was trying to eat her puked up food outside,so I gave her just a bit of dinner.

The good news is the diarrhea is not explosive or excessive. It is also not from the upper GI.

What's weird is she still wants to TRY and run around outside and play.

As for the ANA....it still could be autoimmune...but it's really not conclusive yet. It shows inflammation,but that could be from the pannus.

After we are diarrhea clear. Zephyr will have x-rays of her head and lungs. We are also still waiting on the tick panel results.

I am at a lost and exhausted.

She needs a miracle.


----------



## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Praying to as many saints as I can for you. I'll see what my Dad can arrange




























I'm here for you any time you need me.


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: JenM66Praying to as many saints as I can for you. I'll see what my Dad can arrange
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. I am so afraid. I can't lose her. I am trying my hardest to be positive,especially for my daughter.


----------



## AniasGSDs (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I'm at a loss for words. Not knowing what is wrong must be the hardest thing..... Keeping our prayers going!!!!!


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I sure hope the results show something that the appropriate treatment can be identified and started!









How much diarrhea was she having and what kind of bloody? Sorry, to be so gross...

And which antibiotic is she on right now? 

Weren't her platelets a little low the other day? 

Big hugs to you and your family!


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Sending you and Zephyr stong healing vibes. I know you are more than stress out, but you really need to take a little time to take care of yourself.

I hope the Vet's can figure out what is wrong with Zephyr. The nose bleed thing really bothers me plus if she was having bloody diarrhea that is also a big concern.

Val


----------



## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Sending lots of prayers and healing thoughts to you and Zephyr.


----------



## ArmyGSD (Apr 27, 2009)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Prayers and more prayers for you guys in this time. I hope everything will work it's way out.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Just checking in here on the beautiful Zephyr...


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*



























































Lee


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

No nosebleeds last night. It looks like her poop is trying to firm up and is alittle less red. She licked her breakfast bowl clean.

She was trying to engage me to play. She sees me grab the poop checking stick and wants it. I really want her to reserve her strength. We did a casual walk around the yard.

I just can't understand how a perfectly healthy dog can have so many problems so quickly.

Hopefully she continues to improve and we get to the bottom of this. If she is still doing well tomorrow....I will go forward with my plans. I have been in the midst of starting a business and tomorrow is my first show or grand opening.....all proceeds going to Zephyr's mounting vet costs.

Thank you to all who are concerned, it brings tears to my eyes to know that so many people care for my baby.


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

We can not just about Zephyr, but you also. Things like this can drive you crazy and sometimes you need a shoulder to lean on or ears/eyes to bounce things off of. 

I hope you and Zephyr have a good day.

Val


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Thinking of you and Zephyr today. May her improvements truly continue and give you a huge sense of relief! Positive vibes and prayers heading out to Zephyr, and to you, too!


----------



## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Vickie,

Really, really all the best to your family. You're a tower of strength to cope with the recent past and look to the future with a new business. Congratulations on your opening (trusting that Zephyr's health is stable).

Look, I'm not a doctor, but between previously low platelets, bloody diarrhea, and nose bleeds I wonder if she is clotting all right? But what does a clotting disorder mean? Just thinking as I type.

Anyway, all the best,

Mary Jane


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: JazzstormI just can't understand how a perfectly healthy dog can have so many problems so quickly.


That's exactly what happened with Dena.







I'm really hoping for a better outcome for your girl. Mary Jane mentioned the clotting thing - did your vet mention DIC - Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation? 

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/disseminated-intravascular-coagulation-in-dogs/page1.aspx


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Have the platelets been rechecked?


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Yes bloodwork was rechecked...everything was normal. Platelets just alittle low, not alarmingly low,and the same as they were.

Her clotting times were normal.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm Yes bloodwork was rechecked...everything was normal. Platelets just alittle low, not alarmingly low,and the same as they were..


Then that's not normal. It also tells you that what you are doing now for treatment isn't working. 

If you decide to use pred for any amount of time, please switch to doxy, since it helps with inflammation and the immune system, MALT lymphomas, and all the tick diseases.


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

We won't do prednisone until the diarrhea is clear. We talked about the doxy and she said it is rough on the digestive system, obviously not a good choice right now.

I am not sure how much of a difference in the bloodwork you would see from Monday to Friday?


----------



## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm We won't do prednisone until the diarrhea is clear. We talked about the doxy and she said it is rough on the digestive system, obviously not a good choice right now.
> 
> I am not sure how much of a difference in the bloodwork you would see from Monday to Friday?


Funny thing about Doxy - I've been using it to correct LJ's diarrhea. I've used it twice now - works like a charm.


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I have no medical advice to offer. Just letting you know I'm still thinking of you and Zephyr and wishing for the best. *HUGS*


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Thinking about you and Zephyer this morning Vicki.....hoping she continues to improve


























































Lee


----------



## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I'm a new kid on the block and I'm still reading threads here and there . . . but I had to offer my best wishes for you and your sweet Zephyr. I know how hard it can be diagnosing our furbabies!


----------



## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

I was just thinking (and maybe I missed as I quickly went through all the posts). When my MIL was alive, she had low platelets and getting a nosebleed was a sign for her to get in and get something . . . I don't remember anymore. . . maybe like an IV of whatever (platelets? blood?) And then she was good to go for a while. Could that be the same for dogs?


----------



## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

5150, Could it be a vitamin K shot? I had a friend that had a similar problem.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Checking in on Miss Zephyr today...


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Checking in on Miss Z...


----------



## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*



> Originally Posted By: LisaT5150, Could it be a vitamin K shot? I had a friend that had a similar problem.


You know, I just don't remember! I know the vitamin K factor is a clotting issue. My Mom takes Coumadin and cannot eat too many (I think...) green vegetables or it thins her blood even more.

Of course, my DH is no help . . . "yeah, she had to do something, I don't know"

I'm wondering if they can get the platelets back up to a normal level, the bleeds should stop. But I don't know if it works that way in Doggie World.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Vitamin K is a treatment for dogs who have eaten warfarin or rat poison - any chance of that???? The blood thins and they eventually bleed out...the VK prevents the thinning.

How is Zephyr????


Lee


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

<span style="color: #000099"> Good morning all,

Zephyr's had a good few days. She is LOVING her bland diet. I can't believe she would like that crappy Hill's food, but she does.







I have started switching her over to chicken and rice. I did buy more Hill's because I can hide her pills in it...she has never been this enthusiastic about eating (unless it's people food)

She seems to be getting more into her regular habits and is very playful when we go outside. I am still limiting her exercise though.....I am afraid of overdoing it.

As of yesterday, no test results back.


I did go to the market to sell my soaps Sunday. I did pretty good for my first time, considering it wasn't really a big "organic soap using crowd." I had a little pic of Zephyr and a sign stating all proceeds go to her vet costs. One lady bought 4 bars....her little scottie has cancer and he's terminal. She understood how expensive things are.

Thanks for all the concern...love you guys!
















As of yesterday, no test results back.</span>


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Glad you posted Vicki! I was starting to worry !










Lee


----------



## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: ZEPHYR'S IN EMERGENCY!!!!*

Thanks a lot for the update and the good news about Zephyr.








for the test results

Mary Jane


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Update*

<span style="color: #000099">Another good day and night. I talked to the vet in depth yesterday. She still feels this is an autoimmune disease, even though Zephyr's symptoms don't fit any one of them in particular. The reason being....the pannus. We do know that is an immune mediated disease.

The results of the tick test were negative.

The next course of action is a nose scope,x-rays and possibly an ultrasound. We both agreed that we should let Zephyr continue to get better and stronger before we proceed. We feel the colitus was a result of her being very stressed these past few weeks. (at least we are hoping)

Thanks for the prayers and good vibes...they seem to be working.

....along with alittle reiki session the other day.







</span>


----------



## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: Update*



> Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm <span style="color: #000099">.....let Zephyr continue to get better and stronger
> ....along with alittle reiki session
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds good to me!

All the best to you all,

MJ


----------



## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Update*

A very cautious woo-hoo - don't want to jinx things! Glad she seems to be on the mend, now how about you?!!!!


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Update*

<span style="color: #000099"> Yes I am on the mend too. Thanks for asking. I've gotten some much needed sleep,back to my regular workout schedule and healthy eating.







</span>


----------



## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Update*

OH GOOD! Keep it up --- both of you


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Update*

glad to hear from you Vicki and that Zephyr is coming along better

Lee


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: Update*

I am so pleased to hear that both of you are doing better.









You should come sell your soaps here--there's a big organic soap crowd in Buffalo!


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: Update*

I am glad to hear that you are both feeling better.

Val


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Update*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI am so pleased to hear that both of you are doing better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 <span style="color: #000099">I would love to find out what flea markets etc are in your area! 

We do have a market for organic soaps here...it just wasn't where I was at.</span>


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Update*

<span style="color: #000099">Another good day and night!







</span>


----------



## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

*Re: Update*


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: Update*

Yea. Another good night. I like good news.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: Update*



> Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI am so pleased to hear that both of you are doing better.
> ...


We have a lot of farmer's markets and also a lot of arts festivals where people sell soap. 

http://www.nyfarmersmarket.com/regionwesterie.htm


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Update*

<span style="color: #000099"> Another good day and night!!!









I also received the best Mother's Day present ever.....

A PERFECT picture and frame worthy poop! The most beautifully sculptured feces I have ever laid eyes on...

Really!!







</span>


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Update*



> Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm <span style="color: #000099"> A PERFECT picture and frame worthy poop! The most beautifully sculptured feces I have ever laid eyes on...
> 
> Really!!
> 
> ...


----------



## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

*Re: Update*



> Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm <span style="color: #000099"> ever.....
> 
> A PERFECT picture and frame worthy poop! The most beautifully sculptured feces I have ever laid eyes on...
> 
> </span>


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Update*
























Yippeeeeee!

Lee


(what a wierd bunch we are to be so happy about POOP!!!!)


----------



## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

*Re: Update*

Does any one have a manual showing the steps of the "Poop" dance? I would like to learn it so I can break down on it when I see my dogs letting it fly.

Is it anything like the Fox Trot?


----------



## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Update*



> Originally Posted By: Wolfstraum:
> (what a wierd bunch we are to be so happy about POOP!!!!)


Not at all. when you've been through months and months of runny stuff, formed beautiful poo is worth celebrating!!!!!!


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Update*

<span style="color: #000099">Please see my post in the diet and nutrition section.









Input greatly appreciated. </span>


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Update*

<span style="color: #000099"> Celebrating two weeks of no nosebleeds!









Now to find a food that agrees with her. I've narrowed down some possible things. No beef....and possibly an intolerance to barley. The jury is still out on the whitefish.</span>


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: Update*

Yea no nose bleeds. How are your cooking skills. sounds like you might be heading that way. So many of the kibble has barley now days.

Val


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Another Zephyr update*

<span style="color: #000099"> Zephyr is continuing to do well.







I am transitioning her to Natural Balance Duck and Potato. She absolutely LOVES it. Yesterday I gave her a bit without chicken and rice for lunch and everything looks good. Perfect poops....within 2 days of the FortiFlora. She is so enthusiastic about this food,this morning she was barking and "woowooing."

Her eyes are another story. I spoke with the opthalmologist yesterday. He agrees NO MORE cyclosporin,but there aren't a whole lot of options left. We upped the dexy drops to 4x a day. If that doesn't work....he will give her injections in her eyes!










Through all this Zephyr has earned the name as "Mystery Girl." NO one can explain all the weird goings on. I do want to say that Zephyr's vet has been awesome!!!! Sometimes you don't know how good your vet will be until a crisis (I learned that the hard way years ago) I just can't say enough ....we are lucky to have her and the whole staff!!!









Question: It's obvious that Zephyr is not getting any more vaccinations...NONE. Anyone here NOT give the rabies vaccine? Can you tell me your experiences?

P.S. Anyone want an almost full bottle of cyclosporin drops?</span>


----------



## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

Glad to hear she is doing better. The injections in her eye might be the way to go with her. One of my club members had a young dog develop this condition which they felt was due to some of the meds she received as a puppy. She was really young and ended up at the er vet with some major weird infection and almost died. Anyway they treated her with the injection and her eyes clear and I don't believe the pannus reoccurred. 
She is probably sensitive to the cyclosporine which is an immune suppressive so it is no wonder it negatively effected her immune system.

I have a dog with lymphoma and we have a waiver for his rabies from our Oncologist. We did do a titer just as a back up and his titer after over 3 years was 1:115 I think and the recommended level from the CDC for people (none for animals listed) is 1:5 so he still had way more protection on the rare chance he came in contact with a rabid animal.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

OMG! INJECTIONS! Okay, I need to go back to bed now-I think I just got a little







!







But if it works for her, that would be great. I would just ask if by doing injections, and it started getting worse again, can they reverse it, if it is the type of injection that is long lasting. I am not sure if I am clear in what I am saying. Hope you understand!

Glad on the Fortiflora and poops! I bet that food makes her belly feel good.







to her. 

What % on the cyclosporin drops? Bella uses them.


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

<span style="color: #000099">UUUUGGGGHHH! I spoke too soon...I gotta stop posting here! Zephyr has a nosebleed this morning,not bad and it happened after she was all hyped up and barking.

Thinking out loud here. The first nosebleeds happened after the town came and dug out the creek behind our house.

Last night,Zephyr was hanging around while my husband tilled our garden.

Coincidence?









Jean the drops are 1%. </span>


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*



> Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm <span style="color: #000099"> Zephyr is continuing to do well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just a quick second here but wanted to say that Chama has not been vaccinated for rabies in 5 or 6 years. I was titering but I'm not doing that anymore either. I would suggest just titering and getting a note from your vet. The town and the border (Canadian) have accepted it.


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

<span style="color: #000099"> The vet said she would give me a note. Should I bother to titer if I am not going to give the vaccinations anyway??</span>


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

Sorry to hear about the most recent nosebleed









Do you ever take her anywhere that would require vaccination records? If so I'd titer just to be able to prove that she has immunity. You'll also want to check with your state/county/whoever does your licensing to see if they'll need a titer result to do the waiver for her license.


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

<span style="color: #000099">Yeah we go camping.

I am waiting for the vet to call. Zephyr is acting fine. She ate her lunch and wants to run around and play outside. </span>


----------



## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

Hmmm....almost seems allergy related but why??? a nosebleed? I'd be doing the freak (actually I am with you Vickie!). I would do the titer only to ensure she has immunity, it's more for my own knowledge. A letter from your vet stating compromised immune system SHOULD be enough. I have stopped vaccines with Gracie but I"m on the fence about rabies. We have until February to make that decision. I've also stopped HW and flea/tick meds but I'm nervous about that - especially for when we go herding (I'll start a new thread with questions).

Kee me posted. You know how to reach me if you need to scream!!!





































Oh, and about the duck and potato


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

<span style="color: #000099"> Zephyr's vet and an internal medicine specialist,and the opthalmologist are trying hard to coodinate an all in one appointment this Friday. We will have a consultation and hopefully they will scope her nose and possibly a head x-ray. While she is under the opthalmologist will inject her eyes.

I told them about her nervousness...so they are trying their best to do everything at once to minimize her stress.

I pray they don't want to do an MRI...I can't afford it and actually passed on one for myself because of that reason.</span>


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

Fungus? 

I think the scope should do it with the xray. No MRI no MRI...


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

<span style="color: #000099"> That's what I said weeks ago...but she doesn't have the usual symptoms.</span>


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

Scoping and Xray should I think in most cases catch anything, I don't see the need for MRI, but I am also not a Vet.

It might just be a weak blood vessel real close to the surface in the nasal passage that is causing the bleeding. I hope that is what it is because that is any easy fix, if they can find it they just cauterize it. Running, barking, sneezing, excitment that raises the heart rate could be enough to make it bleed.

Val


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

<span style="color: #000099">Val that is what I am hoping....weak blood vessel. That or maybe she sniffed something up there... </span>


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

I know we always want to be prepared for the worst so we aren't caught off guard, but in this case there is the possibility that it isn't any thing really scary. I will be in and out on Friday but I will check in to see how things are going with you and Zephyr.

How is the food/poop situation going?

Val


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

<span style="color: #000099"> Food and poop thing is great! I can't believe how much she loves this food.

I was googling and now I am scared.







</span>


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

Stop googling.









That's an order! 

The Normal Fairy is on her way back to you.







Thanks for lending her but we can spare her today. We can't have any more nosebleeds. 

From Z to Z


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

I wouldn't titer (no rabies vaccines for Indy since 1998). 

I would still run a course of doxy before I did anything. Did the platelets ever come back up?


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

:bump, I think Vickie said they were going to go camping. Since she didn't post I am hoping that is a good thing and they went camping for the weekend.

Val


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

<span style="color: #000099"> Zephyr's appointment at the internal med specialist was Friday. They didn't do anything invasive. They checked her blood pressure with a doppler machine, took blood,(sent to Cornell) and weight. I spent about 90 minutes talking with the Dr. about possible causes of the nosebleeds and how to proceed with testing. She also gave me a run down of costs.










Zephyr is doing fine. Eating well and VERY active. She did have soft poop yesterday and this morning. Natural Balance apparently changed their duck and potato food formula.....she just started a new bag. This sucks because her poops were great....I am wondering if she will adjust to the new formula?

ETA: As we were paying, the opthalmologist saw us and checked Zephyr's eyes again. It almost made me feel like the bill was worth it then! LOL</span>


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

I think the fact that she is eating well and VERY active is a very positive sign!!!









Thinking of you and Zephyr


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Another Zephyr update*

<span style="color: #000099"> Small update and pictures in the picture forum.</span>


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