# German Shepherd Kills Poodle During Topeka Parade.



## iLittleMiss (May 3, 2014)

German shepherd attacks, kills teacup poodle during Topeka parade | CJOnline.com


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## CharlieB.Barkin (Apr 21, 2014)

My 2 dogs are a German Shepherd and a Toy Poodle.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The dog isn't aggressive but it did grab another dog by the head two weeks ago and shook him like crazy. He's not aggressive though, really.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

such a shame....stupid people on both sides....little dogs don't know they are little and I've seen many run up to big dogs....and there is a certain responsibility that goes with having a big dog - any big dog on a leash! One that has shown it will grab a small dog should be carefully and with preventative caution taken in public like this.....both sides show human error, it is a shame the poodle paid for it....

Lee


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

I own Shepherds, a Leonberger, Pomeranians and a Pom/Chi Mix. My little dogs have the same rules as the big ones. I would never allow my Shepherds to rush a dog - I don't allow my little ones either. My newest Pom thinks its ok - it has been a **** of a time trying to curb it, but we continually work on it. He is leashed when out because he still can't be trusted. The owner admitted he had been "trying to control Toby all day"...um well he is 3 1/2 lbs, not sure how hard that is to control? And if that was a Rottweiler that was misbehaving, would you have brought him home before the parade?

As for the Rescue - it is ALWAYS a very bad idea to have rescue dogs walk in a big parade. There is just too much that can happen. Have an adoption fair/day/meet and greet - whatever - but don't put those dogs into an overwhelming situation like a parade and hope for the best. 

I agree Wolfstraum, stupid people on both sides.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Ditto, dumb on both sides. I thought I read that the poodle lunged at the GSD. Still the GSD probably should not have been in the parade. Too much input and stress.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Human failure on both sides caused this. The German Shepherd should have been under better control knowing the history or maybe not even be in the parade with all the action on the sides. On the other hand I know a lot of people (not all) with small dogs don't train them because they are so small they figure they can just pick them up. I hope the GSD in the article gets another chance for training and they don't just give up and pts. Hindsight is always 20/20. I'm sure the person walking the GSD feels terrible that the other dog was killed.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Reading through the comments, smh


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## alydbaby (May 14, 2014)

This is so sad to read. Although I agree it was a lapse on the owners' judgements (both the GSD for his history and the poodle for admittedly being 'hard to handle' that day), I'm sure both parties feel horrible and my heart goes out to Toby's family. I'm not a fan of small dogs, however, and have seen them charge larger dogs (little man syndrome, apparently) so the story told by Price makes some sense... but if this dog has history of attacking other dogs, the last place it should be taken is to a parade full of them. That being said, he definitely doesn't deserve to be euthanized. 

Just because your dog is little, they should still know better than to rush at other dogs without having to be picked up. But if a large dogs has history and issues, more precautions should be taken when going into public. Common sense could have saved two lives.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

wolfstraum said:


> such a shame....stupid people on both sides.buck...little dogs don't know they are little and I've seen many run up to big dogs....and there is a certain responsibility that goes with having a big dog - any big dog on a leash! One that has shown it will grab a small dog should be carefully and with preventative caution taken in public like this.....both sides show human error, it is a shame the poodle paid for it....
> 
> Lee


This!!!! No freaking way should this have happened!!! That is a whole bucket full off bad pr for the GSD!!

Speaking for myself...I don't give a crap what a little dog does! I protect my dogs that pretty much means they are under control! The few times little dogs have gotten in there face..they help station and stared at the dog!!

This dog apparently had a history. If it was in the parade it should have either a competent handler or a muzzle!! The has a tendency to grab little dogs by the head!! Lets put him in a parade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

A crap load of incompatible here!! Pretty much a text book example of why I don't recommend GSD!!! 

Not that I have an "opinion one way or the other!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, that bit of PR for rescuing death-row dogs, backfired big time. 

What a bunch of total idiots. Taking shelter dogs in a big parade. You EXPECT people to have their pets out there! Ya know what, I don't blame the little dog or the little dog owner at all. No one expects a dog that is unable to be managed in a parade!

The dog lived as long as he did, because the dude did not LET the dog run up behind horses in a parade, because you expect horses to maybe kick a dog. But you do not expect people who are out there showcasing their rehabilitated dogs to have one that is going to snack on a little dog. 

Stupid! And they knew the dog had issues! Who puts dogs with issues in a huge parade where there may be horses, and fire engines, and horns and bells and whistles, and scads of people of all sizes, races, and ages. 

Beyond stupid, and for them to blame the little dog, whose owner had to bury it, its kind of despicable.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

selzer said:


> Well, that bit of PR for rescuing death-row dogs, backfired big time.
> 
> What a bunch of total idiots. Taking shelter dogs in a big parade. You EXPECT people to have their pets out there! Ya know what, I don't blame the little dog or the little dog owner at all. No one expects a dog that is unable to be managed in a parade!
> 
> ...


Totally agree. 

Way back almost 10 years ago, the rescue I volunteered with at that time was invited to a parade. I had no parade ready dog or foster but I went to help out. It was AWFUL. I would never put a dog that was not 100% with everything - noises, people running out of the crowds at them (yes!) and especially other animals and other small animals (horses down to ferrets - you just do not know) out there to fail. 

The poodle family was spot on in their remarks (the rescue - it was horrifying to us too - jeez, how awful for YOU). 

Unbelievable.


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## lovemygirl (Jan 19, 2014)

Ya know what really gets me -- quote from the article:



> According to Price, the German shepherd isn’t aggressive but did have an incident with another smaller dog several weeks ago. She said the dog ran up to the German shepherd, which grabbed the smaller animal in its teeth but didn’t break the skin or cause injury.





> Price said they rescue dogs who need to be rehomed for various reasons, such as their owner was unable to potty-train them.


Yeah, people relinquish their dogs for reasons like potty-training problems, complete and utter lack of foresight/planning, etc. But some folks surrender their dogs because they are DA (or HA, or have other serious and difficult-to-manage/correct behavioral issues). In fact, a 2000 study seeking to identify the most common causes of animal relinquishment found that the #1 reason for dog relinquishment was, and I quote, "behavioral problems, including aggression towards humans and non-human animals" (source: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie). Additionally, a 2007 study followed 67 shelter dogs who passed a behavioral evaluation for 13 months; within 13 mos, 40.9% of those dogs had exhibited "lunging, growling, snapping, and/or biting" (source: Aggressive behavior in adopted dogs that passed a temperament test). Granted, these 67 dogs and adopters were not forced into any particular training program, so the behavior of these dogs cannot be assumed to be an inherent temperament fault; the adoptive owners could have created the behavior problems. 

I believe as much as the next dog-lover that owning a dog is a commitment for life and an owner should leave no stone unturned, no approach untried, in their pursuit of resolving any and all behavioral problems. And I think it's absolutely awful that some people do relinquish their dogs for very minor issues that could easily be resolved (ie housebreaking). BUT, we know that many shelter dogs have behavioral problems. We know that parades are unpredictable and full of other dogs and children and stimuli everywhere. WHY, WHY did they set this poor dog - and its victim - up for failure like this????? The rescue group is 100% to blame. 100%. No question. Doesn't matter if the toy poodle ran up to the GSD. If you bring a dog to a parade, you have to anticipate something like that happening. Period. 

I'm really sick of the bleeding heart crud groups like this spew. I'd much prefer that they be honest with themselves - for the dogs' sake. Why insinuate that a dog like this GSD was dropped off for a minor offense and gloss over the previous incident, wherein he grabbed and shook another small dog? You just know they would've adopted this dog out to a family with a small dog, or a neighbor with a small dog, without a word of warning. And then that adoption would've failed and the GSD would be abandoned again and who knows if the family that hypothetically adopted him would ever dare to adopt a GSD again. Ya know? I just don't think these groups consider how their negligence ripples out, affecting hundreds of people and thousands of dogs. 

Rant over. Hope that was at least a little follow-able.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

lovemygirl said:


> Yeah, people relinquish their dogs for reasons like potty-training problems, complete and utter lack of foresight/planning, etc. But some folks surrender their dogs because they are DA (or HA, or have other serious and difficult-to-manage/correct behavioral issues).
> 
> 
> 
> Rant over. Hope that was at least a little follow-able.


 Oh yeah "we" get it! My rescue GSD other wise well behaved. Wound up having both these issues!!! DA was reserved for the top dog in the house and me trying to pry his jaws open not fun! The H/A thing he "never" got a chance to practice! Nor did he ever lay his teeth on someone else's dog!

Even still we never gave a thought to rehoming him! It's called accepting responsibility and making sure no one else suffers because you yourself screwed up! 

When you (rescue) a dog you remove him from the possibility of finding a more capable owner! Had we returned Rocky at that point (7 months when we got him) problems showed 8 months later! The responsible thing to do would be full disclosure, if he was returned,

So it would have been...oh yeah add DA and HA to his tag, good luck and see ya! 

I dealt with it quite successfully, myself, fully non DA or HA today! I had to learn a lot, some of it the hard way! But job one "he's my problem" not someone else’s!"

Also want to add as "The Dog Whisper" and numours spin off shows, have shown. Not everyone will dump a dog cause he has problems. A lot of folks out there are willing to put up with a lot of crazy destructive, ill mannered and flat dangerous dogs for years!!!

Not everyone is capable of fixing a dog's problems but none the less, they don't dump them off! There are a lot of responsible folks out there! 

It's just that PSEUDO SWEARING - REVIEW BOARD RULES are the one's that make the news!


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## Bob_McBob (Nov 15, 2012)

Group's director faces charge in fatal attack on poodle | CJOnline.com

Looks like the head of the rescue is going to have to pay a fine over the incident. Judging by the comments, the facts of the incident and the dog's history and whether it's even a purebred GSD still seem pretty unclear.


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

...Note to self: Do not leave it to the public to watch out for my Chi-mix or to have their dogs properly trained. Next time we go to a parade, I will have to remember to keep my dog(s) out of the way of others and out of harms way. 


With a 3.5lb dog, I'd be afraid he'd be stepped on if I let him run around on the ground without keeping a very close eye and a very short leash. If the poodle had been stepped on, would we even be having the same conversation?


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Bob_McBob said:


> Group's director faces charge in fatal attack on poodle | CJOnline.com
> 
> Looks like the head of the rescue is going to have to pay a fine over the incident. Judging by the comments, the facts of the incident and the dog's history and whether it's even a purebred GSD still seem pretty unclear.


From reading the link it looks like if she is found guilty she will have to pay a fine and the GSD will be pts and other dogs possibly taken from the rescue. It is really a shame on all points.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

This happened at a St. Patrick's Day parade - It is now June. Wonder what the follow up was?

The humans involved made mistakes. The dogs will pay the price.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well that would suck! Now the dogs get thrown under the bus because of a couple stupid people!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

middleofnowhere said:


> This happened at a St. Patrick's Day parade - It is now June. Wonder what the follow up was?
> 
> The humans involved made mistakes. The dogs will pay the price.


Group's director faces charge in fatal attack on poodle | CJOnline.com that was a few days ago.

And not that it entirely matters, but I wonder if they have talked to the handler.. I wonder why no one is talking about what the handler of the GSD was doing, did or anything in relation to preventing this from happening.


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## Wicked Seraphim (May 17, 2014)

wolfstraum said:


> such a shame....stupid people on both sides....little dogs don't know they are little and I've seen many run up to big dogs....and there is a certain responsibility that goes with having a big dog - any big dog on a leash! One that has shown it will grab a small dog should be carefully and with preventative caution taken in public like this.....both sides show human error, it is a shame the poodle paid for it....
> 
> Lee


This. 100000% this.


My girl, the one I go on and on about adores little dogs and puppies, but it always amazes me when owners of such wee pups just allow their little one to run up to, and sometimes jump on my girl... who weighs 100 lbs. What if they looked like scooby snacks to her??

I do put the owner at ease once the jumping begins, heck, a puppy even bit my dog on her nose so hard once while playing there was blood all over. My vet came out and said "thank God it was you and not someone elses dog" heh  My dog was fine and dandy, the other owner learned a lesson in "uh oh poo happens fast with puppies!" And perhaps a dog outweighing him by 85-90 lbs wasn't such a hot idea till he got his young man manners. 

People gotta know their dogs, point blank and when not sure or in an unsure situation, the leash is a precious thing to have...no, its a straight must have.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Wicked Seraphim said:


> This. 100000% this.
> 
> 
> My girl, the one I go on and on about adores little dogs and puppies, but it always amazes me when owners of such wee pups just allow their little one to run up to, and sometimes jump on my girl... who weighs 100 lbs. What if they looked like scooby snacks to her??
> ...


I completely agree. But then when people pull their small dogs away from their GSDs someone will rant about people pulling their small dogs away from their GSDs and get offended by it. People with little dogs can't seem to win!


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## Wicked Seraphim (May 17, 2014)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I completely agree. But then when people pull their small dogs away from their GSDs someone will rant about people pulling their small dogs away from their GSDs and get offended by it. People with little dogs can't seem to win!



Yeah, you're right, I can see that flip side. I personally would stop them and tell them my dog is fine, but I wish they'd ask at an in between point, for the the safety of their dog first, before letting their dog.. and I swear, I see it in those little eyes sometimes, go "_kowaaaaaaaaaabuuuungaaaaaaa_!!!" right for my dog, lol. :wild:


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

*People with little dogs can't seem to win!*
:thumbup:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Lol...its the same in every situation.

How many threads do we get about "a parent let their young child run up to my dog and just hug it? don't they know its a GSD?"

And then we get the, "why do people cross the street when they see me walking?"


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## mamajag (May 1, 2014)

Gretchen was flat out accosted at the Tractor Supply the other day. We were headed in and this older lady was heading out. She dropped her bags and I thought she was afraid of Gretchen so I stopped and made her sit. The lady comes RUNNING at Gretchen, baby talk in full voice, and kneels and starts hugging and petting her. Never a word of "is she friendly?" Gretchen has never been greeted like that.

Gretchen looked back at me confused but settled and licked the woman's makeup off. I keep wondering what if Gretchen wasn't as nice as she is? Would we be reading a news article about a GSD pup attacking a lady in the TS parking lot? You know humans are never to blame...


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Okay, I hate when people pick up their little dogs and make comments. Urgh, like a few days ago I got "dont worry love dadddy will save you from that big mean doggy" I really wanted to turn around and round house kick him and his little dog into traffic.......sorry. When they dont make comments I just assume that their little dog is poorly behaved bc my guys will walk on by not even looking and most of the time littles will be trying to launch outta his owners arms in a full blown rage.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## mamajag (May 1, 2014)

martemchik said:


> Lol...its the same in every situation.
> 
> How many threads do we get about "a parent let their young child run up to my dog and just hug it? don't they know its a GSD?"
> 
> And then we get the, "why do people cross the street when they see me walking?"


There's got to be a middle ground, though. When I'm in a place where there are other pets, I ask before I approach their pet. Not every dog, regardless of breed, is good with kids or strangers. It's just common sense.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

But, one should not take an aggressive dog to a parade. Ever.

There is too much commotion going on at a parade, it is such a set up. 

If you see a dog at a parade, you should be relatively confident that the dog is bomb proof. It does not freak out or get uptight about people milling about, animals, loud noises. Otherwise leave your beasts home. 

Sorry. There are a lot of places where one could take a dog that needs some space. A parade just isn't that place. ONE incident like this and dogs get banned from any events in a location. Which totally sucks. 

I took a puppy last year. I am I am talking about a little puppy about 10 weeks old to the Cancer Societies Relay for Life. My mother and sister are both cancer survivors. Whatever. The puppy put smiles on a lot of faces, and she got pets. But some woman came running up to me and told me the dog was not welcome. 

It was an outside deal at the fairgrounds. Animals are always there, they train and board horses there. Doesn't matter. Dogs were not welcome, and we had to leave. Why does the American Cancer Society have such a negative policy concerning canines? Considering how canines have participated in helping the victims, the survivors and working for the cure for cancer, you would think they would be happy to have them there. But they are not. 

Why? Probably because of an incident somewhere like this one.

So if your dog is not good with loud noises, dogs, other animals, people of all sizes and ages, then do not bring them to parades. It just isn't worth it. 

I just do not blame the small dog owner here at all. He shouldn't have had to worry about the dog being killed like that, not at a parade.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

selzer said:


> But, one should not take an aggressive dog to a parade. Ever.
> 
> There is too much commotion going on at a parade, it is such a set up.
> 
> ...


I agree that the GSD had no business being in the parade and someone within the rescue made the wrong choice to include him, just dumb imop.

The owner of the little dog is equally responsible "IF" the statements claiming it was allowed to run out into the parade route are accurate. It could just as easily been killed/injured by other parade participants, horses, antique cars, floats, clowns with oversized shoes driving funny little cars, who knows, people should keep their pets under direct control and keep them safe. Too bad both dogs will end up dead thanks to poor decisions by both parties.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

mamajag said:


> Gretchen was flat out accosted at the Tractor Supply the other day. We were headed in and this older lady was heading out. She dropped her bags and I thought she was afraid of Gretchen so I stopped and made her sit. The lady comes RUNNING at Gretchen, baby talk in full voice, and kneels and starts hugging and petting her. Never a word of "is she friendly?" Gretchen has never been greeted like that.
> 
> Gretchen looked back at me confused but settled and licked the woman's makeup off. I keep wondering what if Gretchen wasn't as nice as she is? Would we be reading a news article about a GSD pup attacking a lady in the TS parking lot? You know humans are never to blame...


Sorry that happened! But I would bet money the lady had lost a dog?? 

I myself a long,long time did the same thing!

I had lost my Boxer/Mix and at a Mall a lady was walking a white bull dog. I ran sled to the dog grabbed him by the face,floppy flews, and said who's a good boy,inches from his face!
















The dog was initially stunned! Then must have decided, I was a long lost friend he did not know he had! 

Can't believe I ever did that! I apologized but yeah, the lady had done a good job with her dog and I benefited! Maybe sometimes dogs can sense people in pain and cut them a break??

Don't know??


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nigel said:


> I agree that the GSD had no business being in the parade and someone within the rescue made the wrong choice to include him, just dumb imop.
> 
> The owner of the little dog is equally responsible "IF" the statements claiming it was allowed to run out into the parade route are accurate. It could just as easily been killed/injured by other parade participants, horses, antique cars, floats, clowns with oversized shoes driving funny little cars, who knows, people should keep their pets under direct control and keep them safe. Too bad both dogs will end up dead thanks to poor decisions by both parties.


I disagree. 

I think the reason the dog was alive to that point is the man saw the floats and the horses as a threat to his tiny dog and managed to keep him pulled away. In today's day of dog parks and doggy daycare, one might assume a dog in a parade is social. And people who do not have dog aggressive dogs do not always think they need to grab their little dogs up and rush across the street every time they see a dog that is larger than it, every time they see a GSD. 

Who would think anyone would bring a dog with a history of attacking small dogs to a parade? Really? Yes, with a tiny dog you have to be somewhat of a helicopter-owner, because anything can kill them. But taking a dog to an event like that was awful, and I just can't blame the guy whose dog is dead, because I would think a dog in a parade was probably safe or it wouldn't be there. I mean, if you have a dog at a school soccer game, should you be mad if a child ran up and petted it? It shouldn't be there if it is going to bite children's faces, should it? I am not saying that you don't tell the children to ask first, but if your dog is a danger to children, do not take them where they are bound to be accosted by them, and if your dog is going to KILL little dogs, then don't take them to a parade.

But that is just my opinion. I don't really like little dogs, and I was bitten nearly every time I delivered the paper for this woman with a black poodle, so I don't care for them, but I just can't back the GSD people on this one. They were idiots, and 100% responsible for this incident.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

My heart breaks for Toby, the Poodle, & his family. I feel very bad for the GSD, as well. Through no fault of his own he is what he is which happens to be a horrible example of the breed. 

A hallmark of the GSD breed is judgment. This vitally important characteristic is missing from all too many modern GSDs. A GSD of sound character absolutely should differentiate between children & adults (whether human or canine) & small dogs vs large ones. Owners whose dogs lack sound judgment should be hyper alert at all times to ensure that other animals/people don't suffer the consequences of their dogs inability to discern threat from non-threat & act accordingly.

My guys pay no heed to obnoxious, ill mannered, untrained, poorly behaved tiny terrors. They sometimes go so far as to raise an eyebrow & cast a withering glance of supreme disdain at a particularly nasty mini-monster.

Ironically, all too often the owners of these bitty brutes aren't grateful for my guys' sound judgment & exemplary behavior. Somehow they interpret my guys' indifference & utter lack of reaction to 1) bravery rather than stupidity on their dog's part & 2) fear & submission on my guys' part. I am continually AMAZED at how proud some of these owners are at reallly rotten behavior. I just hope those dogs don't ever meet up with large dogs who lack the confidence & discernment to ignore 'em.

However, poor Toby doesn't sound as though he was at all rude, or badly behaved. The aggression seems to be entirely on the part of the GSD. The previous incident should have alerted the GSD's people to his inappropriate aggression towards small dogs but sadly they took the disastrous route of blaming the victim which resulted in at least one more victim (Toby) & possibly two (the GSD).

I'm not sure why nobody bothered to give the GSD's name. Despite his failings & faults wasn't he worthy of being named? That also makes me very sad. He deserves that much.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

We weren't there so we don't know exactly what happened or how? The guy said his dog was in front and he had seen the GSD. 

That would have been enough for me. Protect your dog, had he been as anal as some of us here, things would have been different! I walked my BullMastiff/APBT/Lab my GSD and my Boxer and you can bet no dogs getting near them!

On a walk recently my guy was behind me off leash following on my heel, a woman walking a Chi saw us from across the street and scooped her dog up up! I had already seen them and should have stopped and put Rocky in a down or stay and waited for them to pass. I apologized and told them yes he's safe but still...my bad!:blush:

Nonetheless she was protecting her dog! Yes I would 'expect" a dog in a parade to be safe! But I also expect people to be stupid at times too! If you go down the road of life "expecting " people to always do the right thing??? It's going to be a pretty bumpy journey I would think??


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

selzer said:


> But that is just my opinion. I don't really like little dogs, and I was bitten nearly every time I delivered the paper for this woman with a black poodle, so I don't care for them, but I just can't back the GSD people on this one. They were idiots, and 100% responsible for this incident.


Haha! Me too, only it was a white poodle, bit me a couple times, really disliked that dog. The old guy who owned him was always up, even if I delivered to his house by 5am or so. Not a fan of small dogs, however my folks got a toy poodle that I grew to respect, he was not your avg poodle, little oversized (for a toy) and extremely laid back, he was a good dog.


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## Juliem24 (Jan 4, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Well that would suck! Now the dogs get thrown under the bus because of a couple stupid people!


Poop runs down hill,,,


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> That would have been enough for me. Protect your dog, had he been as anal as some of us here, things would have been different!


Yes... But at the same time one would think that if an animal was being allowed to walk in a parade, said animal would be handled properly and safely to protect all bystanders, human and otherwise. There is a certain level of safety and comfort involved when you take your animal to an organized event. Expectations, whether unjust or not, are there and should be met. This GSD should have been on a tighter leash, should have been in the middle, or should not have been in the parade to begin with. At least not walking.

Selzer is right, the GSD and handler are to blame here in my opinion. I feel bad for both owners and for all there that had to witness it. I pray no children caught a full view.


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

I still think the poodle owner should have been more diligent. People don't pay attention, something goes wrong, they look for someone to blame. 

No, the GSD should not have been in that parade! Much less so close to the sidelines. 

FWIW, if I pick up my little dog or move out of the way of a big dog, it's to keep him from trying to get bossy. He easily sends the wrong signals and could end up in a fight. There is one dog on our street that is terrible. The owners do not control it other than having it I. A leash. The dog barks at people and other dogs and drags the owners around. I usually stop and have my guys sit whole they struggle past us. 

Look at it like this, those with lite dogs that grab them up with a huff and run off are probably the same ones whose dogs feet rarely touch the ground, get spoken to like a disabled infant most of their lives and give 'mommy' something to obsess over. An accessory - emotional baggage. Screw em. 

I feel bad for Toby and his family. They're just the average pet owner and probably don't think past their own dog. Probably never had a reason to.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I dont own a dog as fragile as a toy poodle. But as a first time dog owner im smart enough to not let my dog approach strange dogs. And apache is nice, im only looking out for her when she meets a dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

My GSDs represent my husband's elementary school in parades every summer. There are typically 1-2 other dogs besides mine that are in our group. I am ALWAYS wary of the dogs on the sidelines. Most if not all of them shouldn't really be there; they all bark and react or try to jump out into the street. Now I wouldn't bring a dog to be in a parade if he reacted back, even if it was the other dog starting it. I have control over my dogs and they ignore this sort of thing. I am just careful to keep them towards the center of the road if I see a yapping dog zipping around on a flexi lead. We've never had an incident, my dogs are always invited back.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I wonder too how much in front of its handler-volunteer the GSD was when it attacked. 

Stuff does happen fast. My trainers usually have very large dogs, 130 - 160 pounds, but recently they acquired a small dog. In their classes there are a couple of Lakeland Terriers, that have been a total nuisance. Well, the trainer took his small dog past the dog and I saw it happening and couldn't spout out a warning quick enough, the darn thing jumped in and bit his dog on the back.

I am talking about people (the owners of the small dog) that are very dog savy, constantly showing their dogs, training, judging, etc. If their dog was 3.5 pounds it might have been dead too. If the Lakeland terrier was a GSD it may have been dead. 

We cannot excuse the owners of dogs that are unsafe. The owners of these terriers have prongs and e-collars on them, they are the only dogs in classes that have ever bitten one of my dogs, so they know about the issues. The dogs need to be muzzled when in public. 

The thing is, if we let those responsible for the GSDs here, off the hook, then we can see stupid legislation that HAS passed in some places where dogs (like pit bulls) must be muzzled in public. Doesn't matter if the dog has a history or not. If it is a certain breed, it must be muzzled. 

Taking a dog where they KNEW there would be lots of people and dogs and crazyness, and not managing to manage the dog that they KNEW had issues is simply disgusting. And blaming the small dog owners for the attack is just like people with dogs that bite children blaming the children. If we do not want to have dogs banned from every last thing, or be forced to employ muzzles on every dog over 40 pounds, then we need to get on people that make the news from being irresponsible with the dogs in their charge and stop making up excuses for them.


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## Shepnut (Jul 7, 2012)

First off, was this really a GSD? It is amazing how often dogs in rescues are misidentified. I tend to believe GSDs are better served in rescues that are devoted to gsds nonetheless.

This is a tragic event that was 100% avoidable. Not all dogs can nor should be saved-now that is the responsible (but tough) position! The more we drift from our agricultural roots, the murkier pragmatism becomes.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Shepnut said:


> Not all dogs can nor should be saved-now that is the responsible (but tough) position!


The responsible position, IMO, would be to understand that some dogs are going to need careful management and the person taking on the responsibility has to be critical enough to understand exactly what that means. I don't understand why people adopt dogs with problem behaviors, and then proceed to throw the dog into situations where - duh! - crap happens. 

It's not fair to the dogs to say that they should be PTS because they end up in the wrong hands. It's also not fair to the general public to take on a problem dog and then treat it like the best-behaved, most docile dog going. Why are people so stupid?!?


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## Shepnut (Jul 7, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> The responsible position, IMO, would be to understand that some dogs are going to need careful management and the person taking on the responsibility has to be critical enough to understand exactly what that means. I don't understand why people adopt dogs with problem behaviors, and then proceed to throw the dog into situations where - duh! - crap happens.
> 
> It's not fair to the dogs to say that they should be PTS because they end up in the wrong hands. It's also not fair to the general public to take on a problem dog and then treat it like the best-behaved, most docile dog going. Why are people so stupid?!?


I agree with you, blanket back. My statement was not passing judgement on this particular "gsd". I will add that "careful management" requires resources. Resources may be scarce. Then comes pragmatism...


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I agree that "resources may be scarce" and I wonder if I can consider IQ a 'resource' lol. Like when _parents_ adopt a dog know to be aggressive with children. I mean, what in the heck are they thinking? It's beyond me, that's for sure. Not every dog can be saved, if every dog has to be placed in the identical home environment. But they can be tailored to fit, if the adopter is honest about what they're willing to do for the dog. And that doesn't include wishful thinking, lol.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So far, I have only heard dog aggression with this particular dog. I don't think dogs should be put down for dog aggression, even if they kill a tiny dog, and especially when they are thrust into a chaotic situation, with a volunteer holding the leash.

Some volunteers may be awesome dog-people, but they do not live with the dog. There is no way for them to know the dog so well that they should be turned loose in a parade with the dog. I am actually sick about this dog, and what people did to it. 

I don't blame the poodle people at all. I blame the individual who had the legal responsibility for the dog. The person that decided to have this dog go to the parade in the hands of a volunteer. And now, well, the dog probably will be put down. Preventable, yes. This simply should have never happened.


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## Bob_McBob (Nov 15, 2012)

It seems pretty clear the dog shouldn't have been marching in the parade, but the facts of the incident are still very unclear. How much does it really take to kill a 3.5 pound geriatric toy poodle? A minor grab and shake without breaking the skin could easily be fatal. Was it dog aggression, or was it simply instinctive prey drive because a little critter ran past? Was the poodle in the crowd or was it on an extended flexi like every single dog I ever see this size, and running around in the street?



selzer said:


> I don't blame the poodle people at all. I blame the individual who had the legal responsibility for the dog. The person that decided to have this dog go to the parade in the hands of a volunteer. And now, well, the dog probably will be put down. Preventable, yes. This simply should have never happened.


Agreed...


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## txtrayce (Nov 22, 2020)

CharlieB.Barkin said:


> My 2 dogs are a German Shepherd and a Toy Poodle.


I have a GSD and a Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix, and Goldendoodle.


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