# Which breeding seems the best for me?



## Otakubenny (Sep 22, 2015)

Hi guys,

I haven't spoken to the breeder yet, so this is purely hypothetical. These are just the 3 possible pairings that stick out to me just from looking at their pedigrees/pictures/descriptions, and discounting the females that have been bred recently. I would just like your opinions on them before I take a step forward. I am looking for a companion/sports dog. I can't meet the dogs to get to know them individually/temperament for now, so I would just like to be as informed as possible on the other aspects until then.

Structurally I like a dog in the middle - not too slim (I realize slimmer dogs are much faster and agile) and not too bulky. Not a fan of extremes in terms of angulation and toplines either. I like a serious, and civil dog with solid nerves, high thresholds, clear mind, and balanced prey/defensive drives. Low to med handler sensitivity. I know this isn't the ideal sport dog, but this is my personal "philosophy" if you will on what type of dog I prefer. I like breeders who focus on general work/balance (as opposed to purely sport) - seeing dogs placed into police/military etc is big for me.

Breeder is Wendelin Farm. Specifically looking at their male Cert z Kolovecskeho, and their females Gita von Wendelin, Marley von Wendelin, and Gaby z Jeniku. 

Cert x Gita
Cert x Marley
Cert x Gaby

*Structure:*

Cert is what I would consider a tad too bulky, what a massive head (I guess I like this part lol)! His sire Larry looks very close to perfect to me though. Here is a video of Larry, check out the long attack at 3:30! 

Gita looks really good to me. Big fan of her expression and overall conformation. Nice dark pigment as well. Not fully mature yet so I think she will fill out a little bit more as well.

Marley seems on the short side but with a good build. Her ears seems kind of disproportionate (guess this is a nitpick here, but really not a fan of these sort of things).

Gaby is a good height at 61cm, but she is slimmer than I would like.

*Pedigree/titles:*

Gita - Unproven. Alot of the dogs in her recent history are very heavily titled though, which I really like. Her dam looks very slim to me, but her sire looks good. Her sire is WG afaik? I don't know much about these lines so I would really appreciate input as to his side, as far as I can tell he comes from a very successful but sport focused breeder, and this dog himself has achieved alot. Her dams side has a lot of the famous Czech dogs. I like that this pairing shows no relatives within 5 generations, actually is there a tool that lets you look past 5 gens?

Marley - Also unproven. I think she put out her first litter for the breeder earlier this year. Super pedigree, I like that Grim z PS with his son Dargo is so recent in her pedigree. A lot of ZVV1 dogs, especially with the dams, but this is very common for Czech dogs. I feel like this pedigree would really mesh well with Certs, and might have the best chance at producing the type of dog I want? 

Gaby - Gaby herself is incredibly accomplished with multiple titles. Sparkling pedigree as well, a lot of the same well known Czech dogs. Really don't like that she is so heavily linebred on Grim z PS's line though.

So that is it guys, what do you think?


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Based on general criteria you gave, you can get that type of dog/pup from any of those litters, it really depends much more on WHICH puppy you receive out of the litter. They all have genetics capable of producing your general criteria, but only the right pup or two in the litter of eight will meet most of your criteria. You need to be more concerned about specific puppy selected than differentiating which breeding.....unless you just want to show off a pedigree. Wendelin breeds some excellent dogs from the examples I have seen of their dogs.


----------



## KentsDad (Jul 30, 2015)

They all seem very similar, with Marley having some line breeding to PS dogs.

I saw a litter on there website to Pike and Yuska. Nice pairing.

I agree with Cliffson1, the which puppy is picked for the litter matters a lot.


----------



## Otakubenny (Sep 22, 2015)

Thanks, that Yuska x Pike breeding was too early for me sadly. Did you notice Pike is actually for sale right now?

I know that in reality it will depend on the individual puppy, and even the actual temperament of the individual parents is more important to me. Like I said this is purely for the sake of hypothesis/discussion (none of these pairings may even happen haha), because I am not able to go out there yet.

I am by no means a pedigree expert, so besides recognizing the "famous" Czech dogs and looking at titles I'm not able to discern much. I also no jack about WG lines. I would like opinions on specific pairings and linebreeding done in these dogs' recent backgrounds to see how they might coincide with my goals. For example I know that Grim z PS typically produced dogs that would match what I am looking for - but linebreeding on him has been a controversial topic for some people because claims of HD risk.


----------



## RockyK9 (Dec 9, 2014)

I honestly like all of them but personally really like 4-4 on Chuligan PZ.  Cert/Marley. 

Matt


----------



## KentsDad (Jul 30, 2015)

I did not see Pike was for sale. Where do you see that? I am just curious what a dog like that sells for?


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

And if all things were equal I wouldn't touch the 4-4 on Chuligan z PS. Just goes to show there are very different perceptions of dogs/linebreedings.


----------



## RockyK9 (Dec 9, 2014)

cliffson1 said:


> And if all things were equal I wouldn't touch the 4-4 on Chuligan z PS. Just goes to show there are very different perceptions of dogs/linebreedings.


Cliff , why would this be? What is it you don't like about this line breeding?


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I'm not a fan of Chuligan


----------



## RockyK9 (Dec 9, 2014)

cliffson1 said:


> I'm not a fan of Chuligan


 Fair enough.


----------



## Otakubenny (Sep 22, 2015)

KentsDad said:


> I did not see Pike was for sale. Where do you see that? I am just curious what a dog like that sells for?


I happened to see the listing on PedigreeDatabase, he was up for 8k euro iirc. Can't seem to find it right now. He is 8 years old so perhaps Lupo is moving on now.

Thanks for the additional responses guys.


----------



## KentsDad (Jul 30, 2015)

Seems like a lot of the top competitors end up sold at a late age. Many are in the US.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

If they are not getting enough breedings in their own country they will often be sold. Sometimes the breeder has done enough breedings with his own females and wants to find the dog a good home in his later years. Usually, though, it is the former.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> I'm not a fan of Chuligan


Can you elaborate? Possibly in a private PM if you don't mind? Would be curious as to why. Thanks Cliff.


----------

