# Any experience with Steroids and Antibiotics: Prednisone and Cephalexin



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Titan has been itching like CRAZY since we moved to Florida last year, I have had him checked for fleas, skin problems, etc. and they just suggested changing foods and weren't much help. Then it started going away and came back with vengence in the last few months. I have been giving him benedryl but I took him in last Friday to the vets, a new one (who are awesome by the way) when I noticed scabs. 

They gave me Steroids and Antibiotics, Prednisone and Cephalexin, to give to him. Steroids are 200 mg, twice a day for 3 days then once a day for 3 days and then once every other day for 3 days and so on, just to get him to stop itching, then the antibiotics are for the scabs that he has, 2 pills, 500 mg, twice a day. 

Does anyone have experience with these 2 drugs? I have noticed Titan drinking A LOT more which means a lot more potty breaks. He is also really lathargic and just lays around. He didn't even get really excited when I pulled out his leash this morning and last night when he came in from going potty he whined a little whenever I pet him. Just very very strange behavior for him. I did take him for a 2 mile walk this morning and he did fine. When we got to the dog park we played fetch which he initiated then walked back and he ate his breakfast and drank more water. 

Are these common side effects of either drug? I am going to do some research on my own and call the vet, but wondered if anyone on here has had similar experiences.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

The vet should have told you what to expect when giving prednisone. It does make you very thirsty (and hungry) and can have a sedating effect on some dogs. It's only temporary, don't worry. One his skin clears up and you wean him off the predinose, he'll return to normal.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

That's what I just read too. She did mention the thristy and hungry, but I asked specifically about him being lethergic and they said it shouldn't. but now that 2 sources confirmed, I feel a bit better. I don't like when Titan isn't all bouncy and excited with every move I make.. it's weird!


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## Jazmeena (Feb 9, 2012)

Yes, the prednisone can make them very thirsty and hungry! As far as the lethargy, I do believe that can be a side effect, just keep an eye on him if it gets excessive, but as long as he is eating/drinking, I wouldnt worry too much. 

When our Angel was on antibiotics and prednisone, she wasnt really lethargic, but her play style changed. She no longer had ANY interested in playing in the house - HAD to be outside; lost interest in her soccer balls but now LOVED tennis balls - that was basically ALL she would play with! Once off the prednisone for a day or two, she was back to herself, also playing inside, and ANY ball would do!!


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

I am all too familiar with them. Mox was on them 3 different times for skin problems. I didn't notice lethargy, but she seriously chugged water. The lethargy could also be from the bacteria dying off faster than your dog is shedding them. "Herxing." 

We learned her skin issues were signs of a bigger problem - ehrlichiosis. Hers were recurrent. It wasn't until a routine heartworm test that we found out she had the tick- borne disease. She's on doxycycline now, and there has been a HUGE improvement.

Our little dog had similar skin problems, but his was due to the heat. Once I clipped his hair down really short for the summer, all his itching cleared up.

Good luck! Hope your dog gets to feeling better soon!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

How odd! Weird how things can change like that. Titan was all for fetch outside, normal, but couldn't be bothered with a ball inside like normal. 

I didn't think much was "wrong" necessarily just because he was eating and drinking still and still went for the whole walk with no problem. I just wondered if others experienced the same thing.. it makes me sad when he isn't boucing off the walls... I am sure I will eat those words later! haha


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Moxy said:


> I am all too familiar with them. Mox was on them 3 different times for skin problems. I didn't notice lethargy, but she seriously chugged water. The lethargy could also be from the bacteria dying off faster than your dog is shedding them. "Herxing."
> 
> We learned her skin issues were signs of a bigger problem - ehrlichiosis. Hers were recurrent. It wasn't until a routine heartworm test that we found out she had the tick- borne disease. She's on doxycycline now, and there has been a HUGE improvement.
> 
> ...


Herxing... I will have to google that! lol. As well as Ehrlichiosis. He's alway been itchy, but not the scabbing itchy. Sometimes I have had to take his collar off so I can sleep in peace when he scratches! That's when I knew it was bad! They also suggested changing his food to a LID so I am looking at a new food for him.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

_200 _mg. of prednisone!?? Does it say prednisone on the bottle??

I had an asthma attack while in Alaska, triggered by a virus that we must have caught on the ferry. 
They gave me 40mg. of pred! 40, 40, 30, 30, 20, 20, 10. I think was the recommendation. 
I forget. There was only 17pills. I tapered more quickly as I hate being puffy from the pred and I'd gotten over the asthma by day 5 I think.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> _200 _mg. of prednisone!?? Does it say prednisone on the bottle??
> 
> I had an asthma attack while in Alaska, triggered by a virus that we must have caught on the ferry.
> They gave me 40mg. of pred! 40, 40, 30, 30, 20, 20, 10. I think was the recommendation.
> I forget. There was only 17pills. I tapered more quickly as I hate being puffy from the pred and I'd gotten over the asthma by day 5 I think.


OMG i can't believe i mistyped that! 20!! not 200!! and yes Prednisone is what it says.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

ok, whew...!
That would be the correct dosage but you will see increased thirst and urination as a result, and also you may see some food aggression where there was none before.

I hate pred. in dogs for that reason. A short burst may not do that though. 
Ask about "Temeril- P" for the allergies, too.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> Herxing... I will have to google that! lol. As well as Ehrlichiosis. He's alway been itchy, but not the scabbing itchy. Sometimes I have had to take his collar off so I can sleep in peace when he scratches! That's when I knew it was bad! They also suggested changing his food to a LID so I am looking at a new food for him.


Herxing is just when the virus, bacteria, toxins are dying off faster than they are shed. Lasts a few days. With Mox, I have had to rebuild her immune system on top of the meds. So, she gets 1000mg of Vitamin C daily, and about a quarter to half cup of yogurt at night. It seems to have made her feel better quickly.

Ehrlichiosis is a tick- borne disease, similar to Lyme disease. It basically wipes out a dog's immune system if its not treated, so they can get recurrent infections and such. GSD's are prone to getting the chronic form. I only mentioned it as what caused Moxy's recurrent skin infections, which eventually progressed to demodectic mange. Finally got everything under control.

You might want to try the vitamin C and yogurt for your dog since prednisone can suppress the immune system. If you do the plain yogurt, make sure its between doses of the antibiotics. No sense in doing it with - the antibiotics will just kill the probiotics. Mox loves her yogurt treat.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

Also forgot to mention - we switched Moxy to a grain free food, which has helped as well. They might be expensive, but they will save you $$ in the long run. She's on Nature's Recipe Grain Free in the salmon, sweet potato, and pumpkin flavor. The salmon provides omega-3's, which is good for the skin and coat.

Another thing you can try is coconut oil. Start with a 1/4 tsp and work up to a tbsp or 2 in their food. It has antiseptic and antifungal properties.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Awesome. I wil have to try that. He loves yogurt! I used to feed raw and I think it was his favorite part. He is on Blue Buffalo right now and I'm looking at Natural Balance Bison or Venison.. but I will look at Nature's Recipe too.

I was reading about Pred online and everything I read says if he gets fatigued or lethargic to contact your vet. I called them and my doctor was out, but the receptionist that I spoke with advised me to take his temperature and if it's higher than 102 to call them this afternoon. His Dr is going to call me back tomorrow to check in but they did say if I felt the need I could bring him in today to get checked because they say it's not normal.

It was irritating because they are attributing his fatigue and tiresome mannerisms to the fact that he had a playdate yesterday and a 2 mile walk this morning. But this is absolutely not normal for him. I have only once tired Titan out to the point of pure exhaustion and him not wanting to move. It doesn't matter how much exercise he gets he's always down for a game of fetch or a walk. He gets all excited and wags his tail a lot and this morning did none of that. The receptionist at the clinic said that she thinks that's what it regardless of me saying that's not it.. even tired Titan will wag his tail when I come up to him while he's laying down or when I grab a toy.. it's just not right.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Prednisone - it made my dog aggressive on 5 mg 2x a day. We had to stop training while she was on it, and as everyone else says it increases your appetite. I was supposed to take 20mg 2x day, a couple weeks ago for a spinal injury. I had insomnia, felt aggressive or like I wanted to implode. I could only take 1/4 dose, 10mg a day for a few days. I had really short term memory. If I was on a larger dose, you'd probably read about me in road rage incident. But it really help mine and my dog's symptoms very quickly. I gained 4lbs the four days I took it.

As far as the antibiotic, I myself have never had a bad side effect, my dog seems to get diarrhea while taking antibiotics, so usually our vet will give a 2week dose of probiotics to take with them. As always, when taking antibiotics, complete the prescription on the time given.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

I probably would have been like, "Oh, so wait, you're a DVM, too? I didn't know you guys got paid secretary wages to answer phones. How do you pay off that big student loan?" I have a similar problem with my vet in SC. Thankfully, she's a family friend, and I don't have to call her office much. Lol

Your dog could be sensitive to it as another person mentioned. Hopeully, its nothing to worry about.

The herxing thing I mentioned looks like a setback when it happens, but it usually only lasts 1-3 days. My girl is very active, too. So I know nothing I did tired her out. It was just her body fighting the infection.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Gretchen said:


> Prednisone - it made my dog aggressive on 5 mg 2x a day. We had to stop training while she was on it, and as everyone else says it increases your appetite. I was supposed to take 20mg 2x day, a couple weeks ago for a spinal injury. I had insomnia, felt aggressive or like I wanted to implode. I could only take 1/4 dose, 10mg a day for a few days. I had really short term memory. If I was on a larger dose, you'd probably read about me in road rage incident. But it really help mine and my dog's symptoms very quickly. I gained 4lbs the four days I took it.
> 
> As far as the antibiotic, I myself have never had a bad side effect, my dog seems to get diarrhea while taking antibiotics, so usually our vet will give a 2week dose of probiotics to take with them. As always, when taking antibiotics, complete the prescription on the time given.


Gooood to know. Yeah the one thing that bothers me the most is that when I sit with him, even if he's tired, he's usually happy I'm there, wagging his tail and moving his head around. Last night before bed, I sat with him for a minute and his ears wer back and he just sat up straight and didn't seem to want me there. I didn't think he would attack me or get aggressive, it was jsut apparent he was like "don't touch me."



Moxy said:


> I probably would have been like, "Oh, so wait, you're a DVM, too? I didn't know you guys got paid secretary wages to answer phones. How do you pay off that big student loan?" I have a similar problem with my vet in SC. Thankfully, she's a family friend, and I don't have to call her office much. Lol
> 
> Your dog could be sensitive to it as another person mentioned. Hopeully, its nothing to worry about.
> 
> The herxing thing I mentioned looks like a setback when it happens, but it usually only lasts 1-3 days. My girl is very active, too. So I know nothing I did tired her out. It was just her body fighting the infection.


Ha! Yeah, after our talk she goes, I'm just the secretary so I don't know but I'll have the Doc give you a call. She was very nice, and admitted that she was going based of her dogs behavior. Once I explained for the 10th time that this was NOT normal for him even after a long day of training.. she suggested the temperature thing and told me to keep an eye on him and call later if I felt it necessary or I could just bring him in.


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## TaZoR (Jan 26, 2012)

I am NOT a fan of pred. My vet always said..its not for long term use. I have seen many dogs go downhill after a couple weeks. It has major side effects that I think are more common than ppl are led to believe. The side effects ( I believe) are then treated as a new symptom of the orig illness, adding more meds.. Again, my opinion, but I really think this will break an animal down bad over time. I would be cautious.


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

No experience with cephalexin, just prednisone. I did want to make sure you know to keep an eye out for signs of diabetes. Vets (and regular docs for that matter) never seem to mention that prednisone has been known to play merry hob with blood glucose levels and there are cases in humans, dogs, and cats where they have developed diabetes from prednisone treatment. It is unusual, but it does happen (we have a cat that experienced this side effect or I would never have known about it).


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

TaZoR said:


> I am NOT a fan of pred. My vet always said..its not for long term use. I have seen many dogs go downhill after a couple weeks. It has major side effects that I think are more common than ppl are led to believe. The side effects ( I believe) are then treated as a new symptom of the orig illness, adding more meds.. Again, my opinion, but I really think this will break an animal down bad over time. I would be cautious.





stealthq said:


> No experience with cephalexin, just prednisone. I did want to make sure you know to keep an eye out for signs of diabetes. Vets (and regular docs for that matter) never seem to mention that prednisone has been known to play merry hob with blood glucose levels and there are cases in humans, dogs, and cats where they have developed diabetes from prednisone treatment. It is unusual, but it does happen (we have a cat that experienced this side effect or I would never have known about it).


Well we did our first 3 days if it twice a day and are now onto once a day for another 3 days in order to slowly take him off.. I think when I talk to her tomorrow I will mention the points that were brought up here.. she seems to be reasonable an dopen minded on things so far.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

So I started him on the lower dose of the Prednisone,to slowly take him off, like suggested. Still haven't gotten a call back from the vet. Last night when I got home he was still very lethargic but came up to greet me, no tail wagging, then layed down right next to me while I was standing. I moved over to his toy box and brought out his new squishy ball and threw it.. which normally he would be bouncing around before I even threw it, and he just watched it go and didn't even get excited. I convinced him with an excited voice and encouragement to go get it and he ended up going and bringing it back then asked to go outside where he initiated fetch and we played for about 5 minutes then he went inside to sleep some more. 

He ate his dinner, which only included the antibiotics and not the steroid. Then a little while later he wanted to play a little. He was slow but still showed interest. I thought he was feeling better, but this morning it's almost like he was worse. He didn't get up and move when I woke up. I had to convince him to go outside to potty.. which he did. He drank a lot of water and didn't follow me back into my room. Then wouldn't eat his breakfast so I had to give him his meds by hand. 

I called the vets again and told them it was urgent and needed to the Dr to call me back. I am going home at lunch and if he didn't eat his breakfast (I left it out) or isn't any better.. I am going to take him in regardless of if the Doc calls me back..

What do you think?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Ok so just got a call from the vets. She said that Cephalexin may be the cause and wants me to take him off of it for a couple days and see if he perks up. Since I am already taking him off the steroids she isn't worried about them. She also said she has seen some dogs do GREAT on the antibiotic and others are sensitive to it, which may be the case with Titan and is making his tummy upset. She said after I take him off he should perk up a bit but she wants me to try again with the antibiotics once he isn't on the steroids anymore and see if it is the antibiotic or the combination of both..

Hope he feels better soon... it makes me sad seeing him like that.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

From what you previously wrote, I was wondering if your dog was just tired, maybe the steroids were not let him rest properly. And yes it's best to gradually go off the steroids, not stop at once. My neighbor, as a child had terrible asthma and was often hospitalized and treated with prednisone. She said she could not sleep at all on the prednisone and would have the nurses sit with her to keep her company during the night.

Hope all is resolved soon, so your dog can start feeling like himself again.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

TaZoR said:


> I am NOT a fan of pred. My vet always said..its not for long term use. I have seen many dogs go downhill after a couple weeks. It has major side effects that I think are more common than ppl are led to believe. The side effects ( I believe) are then treated as a new symptom of the orig illness, adding more meds.. Again, my opinion, but I really think this will break an animal down bad over time. I would be cautious.



You are 100% correct. Prednisone is not for long term use and causes many other illnesses and organ damage. It's one of those meds that will make you feel great but is slowly killing you and will shorten your life significantly. My stepfather was on it long term before they came out with the newer lung meds. My daughter was on it several times for asthma before we found the right controller. It is very nasty stuff. 

DD complained of leg pain. Supposedly not a side affect but it happened every time she was on it. I wondered if the retained water made her legs hurts? 

Make sure you when wean him off of it slowly as directed. Never just stop steroids. You can shut down important glands.


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## TaZoR (Jan 26, 2012)

Completely agreed. I believe wholeheartedly it killed my father. I argued endlessly with the Dr.. to takemy father off it. He acted like I was crazy. My father went downhill sooo fast and kept saying he felt like a fist was closing around his heart..He was on the highest dose allowed. It was because he was losing his eyesight. I later (when I got internet) read it can cause the sack around the heart to fill with fluid so much that your heart can no longer beat. 

Needless to say, I connect the dots and do not like pred. He also suddenly had so much weakness in his legs that he couldn' t walk. It was a painful death. The Dr. who had done 3 punch biopsys on his lungs because he was a smoker attributed his death to lung cancer. However, no xrays or biopsy substantiated that. We were told all biopsys were inconclusive. 

I have also seen the same downhill effects in animals. I don't think ALL animals are as harshly affected as some, but..will I give it to my dog? NOPE!!!!




Jax08 said:


> You are 100% correct. Prednisone is not for long term use and causes many other illnesses and organ damage. It's one of those meds that will make you feel great but is slowly killing you and will shorten your life significantly. My stepfather was on it long term before they came out with the newer lung meds. My daughter was on it several times for asthma before we found the right controller. It is very nasty stuff.
> 
> DD complained of leg pain. Supposedly not a side affect but it happened every time she was on it. I wondered if the retained water made her legs hurts?
> 
> Make sure you when wean him off of it slowly as directed. Never just stop steroids. You can shut down important glands.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I did a little search on cephalexin...came across a forum - NOT good...This forum is a combination of pets and people on this drug...so the humans can put a voice to what your dog may be feeling...but this lethargy is a symptom way worse then just a take off for couple days - I cannot believe your vet WANTS to put back on "just to see" if combination w/pred...WTF...tell your vet your dog is not a test study....read the posts in the thread...here's one...I strongly urge you to return the meds and report this - I will find link to whom, and insist your vet does too...

Cephalexin Side Effects - Topix

had - I said Had a beautiful shepard lab. He was 10. He developed a skin rash. Itchy and seemed to crawl out from the center and progress steadily over areas of his body. His energy level was good. He had some back leg muscle degeneration but still loved to go on walks. So I took him to Foley Blvd. Animal Hospital. Dr. McHale prescribed Cephalexin 500mg two capsules every 12 hours and gave me enough for 14 days. I gave him the first bottle and it helped his rash. I must have read the bottle wrong because I was giving hin one capsule in the morning and one at night. I took him back after about 45 days because his rash was still holding on in a few spots. Dr McHale prescribed another bottle and told me to read the label again. So I started giving him 2 capsules every 12 hours. He threw up after the first dose the next morning. It was very dark greeninsh yellow colored. He didn't eat much that day. I gave him his second dose that night.(6-11-08) On Friday 6-13-08 he threw up again. Saturday morning I put him in his room because we had guest over. He did not get up when I told him to go into his room so I took him by the collar and brought him in. After a couple hours passed, my guests left and I went in to get him. He had messed on the carpet and was laying still. I tried to get him up but he was limp. Then as I was trying to get him to move I noticed his mouth and tongue were white. Then he released his bladder and died in my arms.

I just wish I had researched this medication more. I thought you could trust vetinarians. I will never return to Foley Animal Hospital in **** Rapids, Minnesota again.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Gretchen said:


> From what you previously wrote, I was wondering if your dog was just tired, maybe the steroids were not let him rest properly. And yes it's best to gradually go off the steroids, not stop at once. My neighbor, as a child had terrible asthma and was often hospitalized and treated with prednisone. She said she could not sleep at all on the prednisone and would have the nurses sit with her to keep her company during the night.
> 
> Hope all is resolved soon, so your dog can start feeling like himself again.


Yeah we are on the weaning off proceess now. I am not a fan of this combo at all.



GatorBytes said:


> I did a little search on cephalexin...came across a forum - NOT good...This forum is a combination of pets and people on this drug...so the humans can put a voice to what your dog may be feeling...but this lethargy is a symptom way worse then just a take off for couple days - I cannot believe your vet WANTS to put back on "just to see" if combination w/pred...WTF...tell your vet your dog is not a test study....read the posts in the thread...here's one...I strongly urge you to return the meds and report this - I will find link to whom, and insist your vet does too...
> 
> Cephalexin Side Effects - Topix
> 
> ...


WOW! Well I suppose I should have said that a little better. She said if I wanted to pin point it to the antibiotics then I can try it again but she also said she would be willing to change the antibiotics if I would like and to just call her and let her know, but she has a lot of dogs on the combination and it's not been a problem like this. 

Thank you for the site! I really really appreciate the research it's making me so worried I am going home in a minute to check in on him. It's my biggest fear to come home to him lifeless  no more antibiotics for him! at least not Cephalexin.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Well, went home, he seems a little more perky than this morning.. Found a small pile of vomit with one of the pills in it.. I think that might be why he is feeling better. 

Not going to give him the antibiotics tonight and will continue to wean him off the steroids.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Good to know he's A.O.K


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Yes! I started having a small panic attack after I read that.. he had an accident in the house.. which he never does, but I blame the steroids causing mass water intake and frequent urination.. a side effect from that. Couldn't be mad at that. But he wanted to play a little when I was home.. slower and mopey than usual but at least he was interested. he also ate some of his breakfast while I was standing there.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Ooooook sorry for all the updates but wanted to share that I got home from work to full forced excited jump... which he never ever ever does, when he is healthy! So I think he was saying he was feeling better.. he asked to go outside and to play fetch and is currently, as I type, playing in his pool. His sores on his back are from foliculitis so his back is really sore and sensitive to the touch. But I think him throwing up his medication earlier actually really helped he will NOT be going back on Cephalexin and i'll wean him off the steroids.. Thanks for the help and support guys.. it made me feel a lot better having you guys here..


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Hurray for Titan yeahhhhhh!!!!:happyboogie:

My post got me scared too. Sorry. 

That wasn't the first forum I came across either, but it had people on the drug so thought may help you understand how he was feeling.

I'm going to look into this foliculitis thing. I think it just means there is excess oils hosting bacteria in the hair shaft...sure something with less risk will to make him feel better

Off the top of my head, try some Goldenseal tea (health food store), it has serious anti-itch powers and is a natural antibiotic...brew 1 bag per cup of boiling water, let steep for 15 mins and sponge into his fur (at luke warm temp). 

I got a brown recluse spider bite on my hand on Sunday, it was driving me mad:crazy:...I wanted to carve the itch out of my hand (the swelling is about 3"x2" and the whole swell itches, not just the bite mark and I had pain going into my wrist)...then I remembered my doggies Tea...soaked in that w/tbsp. epsom salts - instant relief and lasted for hours and hours. If I put pressure on it, seems to push the poison thru the swelling again, I had left the soak in a bowl on counter, and dunked my hand it - worked cold too - go figure.

Give that a try. 
:hug:


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I just finished a course of Cephalexin for a sinus infection and it worked fine - other than random stomach cramps, none of the other things happened. 

ALWAYS give medications with food. I took the meds without it and my stomach hurt, but when taken with food, it helped a lot.
Most antibiotics will cause vomiting if given without food.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I don't think risking death to support a condition which is treated topically w/success in most cases is prudent...it could be yeast. It's a hair folical issue...we humans get them - like ingrown hairs...do you go on a round of ceph because you got a pimple?

Not sure what your post is inciting...raw raw do the drugs, drugs are good...did you even read her post about how sick he was getting?

The tea will take the discomfort of the itch away...a good bath w/out harmful chemicals and rinse with 50/50 apple cider vinigar will restore the skins PH level.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Thank you! I will have to try the tea.. I am supposed to call the vet for an update today and to change his antibiotics, but I'm not sure I want to try another medication if it effects him like that. I will tell her about the Tea and see what she says.. I know she said there was an infection too which is part of the pain and itching with it healing so I may just have to try something new. 

Last night after his fun in the pool he ate his dinner and I swear he was trying to make up for all the fetch he had not done in the last few days.. lol. He was still a little slow but definitely more interested in everything this morning he didn't eat all his breakfast but was still more perky. 

msvette2u.. I always gave it to him with his food. It would just go mixed in or if I didn't do that it was always after he ate. Only one time did I give it to him without food and that's because he didn't eat and I had to leave for work. But thanks for the input, I know I cannot take vitamins on an emty stomach let alone any other type of stronger medication so I always keep that in mind as I'm sure animals are very much the same.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> ..do you go on a round of ceph because you got a pimple?


Did you see my type "pimple"? Or "sinus infection"? 
Really??
Yes I read the hoo-hah. If one wants to, they can find a "side effect" pretty easily. Internet mass hysteria? Methinks could be the case. 

wyoung, we have dogs who come from shelters, treating them when they have kennel cough is critical. Because of the stress, they can develop pneumonia fairly easily, and last year we got a lot of dogs from one shelter that almost every dog got sinusitis. 

We ended up using doxycycline on them as it was the best one for that particular bacterial strain. 
Anyway - they would almost always throw up if given the meds without food. 
Pretty common. Doesn't mean the medication is evil, but yes, many things are an irritation to the stomach, even if the bottle doesn't specify.
We just learned the hard way and give all abx with food now 

Please watch carefully for the skin infection. 
We had a severely allergic dog here, and when you can see spots and scabs that means tons more may be lurking under the fur. We tend to treat what we can see, without remembering that dogs are furry and that fur can hide a ton of issues. 
Off or bad smells can indicate bacterial skin infections. 
I'm sorry - cephalexin is the treatment of choice for those. 
But your vet may be able to get you something else if the skin infection isn't cleared.

Did you ask about temaril-P for the itching?
Another thing you can do (ask your vet to be sure) is administer 1 zyrtec (generic found @ costco's cheapest) a day. Ask also about hydroxyzine for itching.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Yeah she said there is a bacterial infection which was why she gave the cephalexin.. she said that she could try something else. He has red splotches and scabs all over his back and they are sore. She did recognize that and wants to keep tabs on it. he's not losing fur and isnt' indicating anything else being wrong but she noted that he will be sore in those areas for a while, while they heal.

I didn't ask about temaril-P is it topical or oral? She did suggest Zertec or Claritin once a day when not on the steroids.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It is oral, it's an antihistimine plus a very small dose of pred.

Also - you may want to consider Atopica for dogs. I think with a larger dog you could use the generic form of it which is cyclosporin.

I mean I hate to be bearer of bad news, but these skin things can be very difficult to eradicate. When she told you to remove the keflex, did she recommend another antibiotic?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Did you see my type "pimple"? Or "sinus infection"?
> Really??
> Yes I read the hoo-hah. If one wants to, they can find a "side effect" pretty easily. Internet mass hysteria? Methinks could be the case.
> 
> ...


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I don't care what your infection was, it was regarding the dog.


Well...you asked me!?


> ..do you go on a round of ceph because you got a pimple?


I believe it is safe to say some infections can kill us - or a dog - while others may be superficial. 

But a skin infection - left untreated, can make a dog very sick and even kill it, should the infection go systemic. 
At the very least, the dog is/was miserable with the itching.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Well...you asked me!?
> I believe it is safe to say some infections can kill us - or a dog - while others may be superficial.
> 
> But a skin infection - left untreated, can make a dog very sick and even kill it, should the infection go systemic.
> At the very least, the dog is/was miserable with the itching.


Now who's propagating mass hysteria

It is so simple yet so complex...please


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

UGH! Can we all just agree to disagree with what we might feel is the best course of treatment? For Gator, it's the holistic approach, and that is great. For msvette, it's care through pharmaceuticals and a veterinarian. For me, it's a combo of both. The OP deserves to hear all sides without a huge kerfuffle about which way is best.

To the OP - I am currently treating our dog with doxy for ehrlichiosis, which resulted in recurrent skin infections. Msvette is right in that skin infections are very difficult to eradicate without getting to the source of the problem. However, I have followed a good bit of Gator's wisdom by adding some holistics to combat the effects of the antibiotics. Probiotics work wonders in restoring gut flora, which helps build up the immune system. So, to help, yes treat the cause of the problem, but also help repair and rebuild the body while doing it.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Agreed.. I appreciate all approaches and am considering a combined approach. I am going to talk to the vet again and bring up every point and see what she has to say. She should be open to it so that will be my clue as to whether to keep her or not, lol. 

Went home and checked on him and he was doign better. Happy to see me, still a little slow but finished his breakfast while I was there, drank a ton of water, and went potty. He didn't have his antibiotic this morning and only the steroid. It's our third day of once a day on that so he will go no once every other day now for 3 more days.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Oh I'm sorry...I'd say do holistic - under a vets advice - but don't toss the meds completely (which some seek to be suggesting) .


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm sorry, I usually read every post in its entirety before responding, but I did only skim this one.

Just want to say I HATE pred. Hate the drug, but it is my own fault as well.

I had a poor vet, who simply kept prescribing it and I simply kept allowing it. Eventually I got smart and dug into it and banned it for life for that particular dog. Changed everything in her life -- food, treats, environmental exposures, etc... and she's been pred-free for over a year ++.

I think too many vets just hand out the scripts for it without truly digging into better and/or alternate approaches. At least that's what happened in our case. A great deal of my anger here comes from never having been warned about long term use of the drug. 

Incidentally, once I got the dog off of Science Diet, there were significant improvements. Same vet as described before chastised me for leaving SD, but funny -- eliminating SD was a huge step forward in curing my girl from needing any more pred.

I'll never allow that particular dog to take pred again.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Yeah he is now of Cephalexin and was prescirbed Clindamycin 150 mg. So far pred isn['t having much effect on him except water intake and urination. but I am also tapering down to every other day because I am weaning him off it now so that might be why he isn't reactin go it like he was. 

I am now going to research clindamycin, anyone have experience with that one?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We've used it in dental situations and it's a good abx.
But if you search the 'net you'll find horror stories about that too


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I"m sure there are horror stories about broccoli  But just curious on what others on here have had experience with. I gave it to him after his breakfast so hopefully it settles well.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I've taken it and given it to dogs with no issues.
When much younger my son had stomach cramps and mucousy diarrhea. We threw the medication away.
He had a severe and chronic sinus issue and wound up with surgery. The surgeon stated no abx would have helped as his sinuses were totally occluded. 

I was amazed dogs can take the med with no issues.
Then I needed it recently and both times, the 1st few days I had some pretty bad stomach cramps. I persisted, taking fiber (I do daily anyway) and eating yogurt as well.
The cramping went away and I was fine.
The dogs had less reactions, that I could see. 

It's really the treatment of choice for bone infections including teeth and abscesses in dogs. 
It's a bit of a big gun for skin but then again, skin can take 3 weeks to clear. AND if you stop (like with the ceph) the bacteria can become resistant. That's even worse than having a skin infection, period, to have resistant bacteria. And since they stopped the ceph, they had to pick something, I guess.
How long is the dog on the med for?



> I"m sure there are horror stories about broccoli


I have my own personal horror stories about broccoli 

I mean...oxygen will kill you if you get too much of it. You know?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Oh broccoli... Lol. 

Good to know.. I might give Titan some plain yogurt with his meals if that helps. I really hope he does fine with this one because he needs to get rid of that bacteria.

Also, while he has the skin issues, is it ok to give him his topical flea and tick medicine?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I am not sure. It depends on if the fleas cause allergy or not.
I'd be washing with a solution containing Chlorhexadine if it was me. 
Are you familiar with that? 
If you can find a farm store you can buy a big ol' thing of it, or Hibiclens has it in it.
If you can't find it, buy some Betadine and mix it with shampoo. 

I like foaming betadine - doctors use it to scrub with, or they did. It's also been used presurgically to sterilize the skin. When we have parvo dogs we use one or both of those things during the recovery phase to cleans the skin of parvo and other germs.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> Oh broccoli... Lol.
> 
> Good to know.. I might give Titan some plain yogurt with his meals if that helps. I really hope he does fine with this one because he needs to get rid of that bacteria.
> 
> Also, while he has the skin issues, is it ok to give him his topical flea and tick medicine?


I continued using Advantix II on Moxy with no problems. She's even on it now with her doxy.

I have started giving Mox the coconut oil since she started shaking her head and digging in her ears the past couple of days. Seems to be working because she hasn't done it today. Maybe it will ward off a yeast infection. We'll see.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Interesting on the coconut oil. What is it supposed to do?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Moxy said:


> I continued using Advantix II on Moxy with no problems. She's even on it now with her doxy.
> 
> I have started giving Mox the coconut oil since she started shaking her head and digging in her ears the past couple of days. Seems to be working because she hasn't done it today. Maybe it will ward off a yeast infection. We'll see.


Use it to clean the ears too


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> Interesting on the coconut oil. What is it supposed to do?


The Coconut Oil Miracle Where is the Evidence

Victoria's All Natural Pet Health - Pet Food Treats Health Supplements Natural Health

Coconut Oil and Alzheimer’s | Coconut Oil


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> Oh broccoli... Lol.
> 
> Good to know.. I might give Titan some plain yogurt with his meals if that helps. I really hope he does fine with this one because he needs to get rid of that bacteria.
> 
> Also, while he has the skin issues, is it ok to give him his topical flea and tick medicine?


Your dog is on steroids (weaning off)
Just stopped one dangerous med. (dog showing signs of toxicity) - took him off tues.
Started a new med. today w/o researching first

Your dog is having skin issues

Is it safe to put pesticide in his blood? 

But it's a bacteria? That is what's causing the minor skin eruptions. No. The bacteria is secondary to what is causing the skin problem 

I am trying to make a point, not patronizing you. Food for thought.

** comment removed by ADMIN. Adds nothing to this discussion. **


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I do appreciate the food for thought.. it's always good to hear things that not everyone is saying. I will assure you that I didn't even think about giving it to him until I researched it this time. Like anything else there are horror stories but I found a lot of success stories too. I looked at the side effects and what it's typically used for and spoke with the vet a little more about it. He has been on it for almost 3 days now and has no reaction to it. He is also completely off the steroids and is itching a little more now so I am giving him Benedryl for the time being as the vet prescribed. Going to get Zertec or Claritin soon. I also decided to bathe him yesterday just to get any skin irritant off. I used an oatmeal shampoo... all I know now is he is very fluffy  

I also did talk to the vet about putting his flea stuff on him and she said it should be fine so long as it's not in the effected area.

I switched his food, as suggested, yesterday. I am using Natural Balance LID Sweet Potato and Fish. So far he likes it which is a surprise for him. Hope he likes it and that the skin irritation was due to a food allergy and this will fix it.. if not.. more testing we will do..


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> I do appreciate the food for thought.. it's always good to hear things that not everyone is saying. I will assure you that I didn't even think about giving it to him until I researched it this time. Like anything else there are horror stories but I found a lot of success stories too. I looked at the side effects and what it's typically used for and spoke with the vet a little more about it. He has been on it for almost 3 days now and has no reaction to it. He is also completely off the steroids and is itching a little more now so I am giving him Benedryl for the time being as the vet prescribed. Going to get Zertec or Claritin soon. I also decided to bathe him yesterday just to get any skin irritant off. I used an oatmeal shampoo... all I know now is he is very fluffy
> 
> I also did talk to the vet about putting his flea stuff on him and she said it should be fine so long as it's not in the effected area.
> 
> I switched his food, as suggested, yesterday. I am using Natural Balance LID Sweet Potato and Fish. So far he likes it which is a surprise for him. Hope he likes it and that the skin irritation was due to a food allergy and this will fix it.. if not.. more testing we will do..


That's great, thank you for understanding, sometimes it's hard to decifer what context something is said in typeset. I'm glad as it wasn't meant to offend. But is there for consideration if you want to explore other avenues

:toasting:


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I completely understand that.. I always try to make sure the person knows I'm not lecturing or tryign to offend because reading text is so much harder to determine tone and context.. So I try to understand that too.

Titan is doing alright. Still himself at playtime but a little "tired like" last night and this morning. He didn't eat a whole lot of his breakfast this morning but I suspect it's the new food that he was protesting, not his lack of hunger. Normally if he isn't feeling good I can't make him eat anything but if he's protesting against the food itself, I can usually convince him to eat. Normally I wouldn't have bothered and just picked it up until later but I needed some food in his tummy before I gave him the meds. I was able to get him to eat half by telling him "eat" and pointing at it and sitting with him for a sec. I can pretty much say that he is protesting the new food. Lol. He does this if I change something. I'll give him a few days to accept the change!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Sooooo he finished everything and is still itching like crazy. his skin is still flakey in some spots.. he has another appointment with the Vet tomorrow, any idea what is going on? They say environmental allergies in dogs is huge around here. If that's what it is, what's the best way to alleviate the itching?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Is this seasonal? Do you think it's pollen/grass/tree related? Raw, local, honey works for Jax.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Really!? honey? and that's for the environment? I have never heard of that. How much would I give him?

and It seems to have been worse since we moved closer to the gulf and now that he has grass in our yard to roll in.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That worked for pollen related allergies for Jax. It's not going to work on all environmental such as dust mites.

Get baby wipes and wipe down his body and especially his feet when he comes in. In PA, we have spring and fall honey because that is when they retrieve it from the hive. So until mid July, I gave her spring. Then I switched her to Fall. That way the pollens she's getting in the honey is the same pollen that she is exposed too.

You need to find a farmer's market or a local beekeeper. It has to be local to your area and raw.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

oh ok. I will definitely look into that. Thank you!


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

OMG, I just read through this whole thread and our Vet just put Bear on the same two medications for the same thing (intense itching). I really don't care to have him on this after reading through the entire thread. How do I wean him off of the Pred and Cephalxin? He also has had some lethargy (not too bad)
Jax08 I did get the Raw local honey per your suggestion and have started giving him a teaspoon of that a day with yogurt. Should I be giving him Coconut oil as well?
Sorry wyoung2153, I don't mean to be hijacking your thread!


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Bear GSD said:


> OMG, I just read through this whole thread and our Vet just put Bear on the same two medications for the same thing (intense itching). I really don't care to have him on this after reading through the entire thread. How do I wean him off of the Pred and Cephalxin? He also has had some lethargy (not too bad)
> Jax08 I did get the Raw local honey per your suggestion and have started giving him a teaspoon of that a day with yogurt. Should I be giving him Coconut oil as well?
> Sorry wyoung2153, I don't mean to be hijacking your thread!


Certainly...I posted some links somewhere back in the thread, will give you a bunch of reasons why you should...you can also use for wound healing, ear cleaning...manuka honey is especially good for wounds, but kind of messy

There is a link too that will advise on how much C.O. to start at and work up to...it's broad spectrum antimicrobial...Nutvia is my choice in brands - cold pressed, organic, virgin - mid-range price.

What are you feeding your dog...are you still vaccinating yearly? and what?...good info for wyoung too


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Certainly...I posted some links somewhere back in the thread, will give you a bunch of reasons why you should...you can also use for wound healing, ear cleaning...manuka honey is especially good for wounds, but kind of messy
> 
> There is a link too that will advise on how much C.O. to start at and work up to...it's broad spectrum antimicrobial...Nutvia is my choice in brands - cold pressed, organic, virgin - mid-range price.
> 
> What are you feeding your dog...are you still vaccinating yearly? and what?...good info for wyoung too


Thanks Gatorbytes, I posted a thread last week about Bear's itching and went to the vet this past Sat. I saw a new vet (not regular) and she gave me almost identical protocol as wyoung was given for Titan.
I am really not one for prescription meds if I can go holistic, but I didn't want to see Bear suffer.
He had his last round of vaccinations back in Feb (3 yr Rabies and DAPP)
I don't like any vaccinations that aren't required and do not give him any heartworm or fle/tick preventatives.
I did start him on the Raw honey that Jax08 suggested and will start up Coconut Oil after I wean him off the prednisone. BTW, how can I wean him, I don't want to cause any further harm to him?
Bear is on a LID diet by Natural Balance. I supplement with pre-made raw as well.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

No worries about hijacking the thread as long as it helps! lol 

As for the medication, I think it was the antibiotics that didn't agree with him.. he was still on a low dose of steroids when I took him off the Cephalexin and switched to Clindamycin and he was perfectly fine and back to normal. I am not any where near knowledgeable on holistic treatments so I am nervous to do that in case it is an infection or something that I don't know enough about. I just feel so bad because he itches all the time and I want him to feel better.


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> No worries about hijacking the thread as long as it helps! lol
> 
> As for the medication, I think it was the antibiotics that didn't agree with him.. he was still on a low dose of steroids when I took him off the Cephalexin and switched to Clindamycin and he was perfectly fine and back to normal. I am not any where near knowledgeable on holistic treatments so I am nervous to do that in case it is an infection or something that I don't know enough about. I just feel so bad because he itches all the time and I want him to feel better.


I know how you feel! I feel so bad for Bear, yet I don't want to compromise his overall health.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Bear - wean him off the prednisone per your vet's direction. You can not just stop steroids and the dose needs to be decreased daily in small increments.

Manuka Honey - This is honey made from tea trees. There is a study from Scotland that it kills MRSA and the infectious disease specialist told me other patients are using it for other skin ailments. You can buy it in tube to use topically but it must be UMF15 or higher. Not just any manuka honey will work. You can also buy this to eat for stomach issues

Quick links - just do a google search for the studies
http://manukahoney.com/resources/research/digestive-care.html
http://manukahoney.com/resources/research/index.html

Just to clarify....Manuka Honey is NOT what I was referring to when I said raw honey worked for Jax. That is just regular ol' honey gathered locally.


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Bear - wean him off the prednisone per your vet's direction. You can not just stop steroids and the dose needs to be decreased daily in small increments.
> 
> Manuka Honey - This is honey made from tea trees. There is a study from Scotland that it kills MRSA and the infectious disease specialist told me other patients are using it for other skin ailments. You can buy it in tube to use topically but it must be UMF15 or higher. Not just any manuka honey will work. You can also buy this to eat for stomach issues
> 
> ...


No, I knew that you were talking about raw local honey, which is what I got for Bear at a whopping $14.00 a jar. I do have to say it is yummy though!
So should I try the Coconut Oil and the Manuka honey as well?
I am already supplementing with Wild Salmon oil.

I will taper off the Prednisone per the vet's instructions, but I am stopping the Cephalexin. I really don't think Bear has an infection.

My hope is that after I am done with the pred that the honey and other remedies will work for Bear!


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## achampagne (Mar 6, 2012)

I'm a big fan of Apple cider vinegar. My 1 yr old started scratching and chewing on her back half. Researched a bit and was overwhelmed by the possibilities. This was Feb which was a lot warmer than normal, fleas came with it. Flea allergies was my first thing since my corgi goes ballistic if one gets on him, frontline has not been as effective as it use to be so I switched to advantage which took care of that. She was still scratching to the point of losing a lot of hair on her side. I was going to switch her food anyway and got one that had no chicken in it. Had read that a lot of dogs have issues with chicken. Switched to BB turkey and potato. Used the Apple cidar vinegar mixed 1 to 1 with water in a spray bottle used twice a day until the food switch was done and out of her system, about 6 weeks. It worked very well, it bought me time until I could try other things. Don't apply to open sores cause it burns. This stuff works very well for temp relief, have friends whom use it and swear by it.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> No worries about hijacking the thread as long as it helps! lol
> 
> As for the medication, I think it was the antibiotics that didn't agree with him.. he was still on a low dose of steroids when I took him off the Cephalexin and switched to Clindamycin and he was perfectly fine and back to normal. I am not any where near knowledgeable on holistic treatments so I am nervous to do that in case it is an infection or something that I don't know enough about. I just feel so bad because he itches all the time and I want him to feel better.





Bear GSD said:


> I know how you feel! I feel so bad for Bear, yet I don't want to compromise his overall health.


Well, both...there is a lot more to fear about perscription medicine then there is about things like vit. C

Such as the side effects of cefelaxin...correct?

Now when you start getting into funky herbs and stuff I can understand that. There is a book you may be able to get from the library - Dr. Kidd's Guide to Herbal Dog Care ~ Randy Kidd DVM Now I don't own this but read it awhile back and think _was_ president of HAVMA...I think, it was in the bio...anyhow something to look at, you don't have to use anything, but helpful to read and learn about options (has a cat one too as cats can't have certain things dogs can - like citronella - toxic) Earl Mindell, wrote the Vitamin Bible...he has one for dogs "Nutrition and Health for Dogs". His book gives you dosing for suppliments.

This is a list of the herbs (not nutritional suppliments like E or B's) that my dog takes or has taken either self scripted or Vet (I'll mark a V next to)
Milk Thisle
Dandelion 
Red Clover
Burdock Root
Devils Claw (V)
Yucca (V)
Astragalus (on own) and w/Cat's Claw, Ashwaganda (V)
Adrographis (V)
Graviola (V)
Stephania Root (V)
Wormwood (V)
Black Walnut (V)
Also a gentle parasite cleanse by Alpha Omega (combination of 5-6 things incl. garlic and pumpkin seed), called Para-Free

I have also use/have used suppliments such as 
Ginger
Curcumin
Grape Seed Extract
Pancreatin D-zymes
Herbal IB-zyme (contains marshmellow root, slippery elm, hesperidan, L-Glutamine and couple more things)
Wobenzyme
Probiotics
B-complex
Magnesium
Kelp
Evening Primrose Oil
Spirulina
Zinc (barely)
Vit E
Vit C
and give Activated Charcoal for diarrhea

As well as homeopathic tinctures and pellets
Now I AM NOT suggesting anything to anyone, just saying there is so much more to offer with the right Veterinarian - an Integrative one


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you don't think Bear has an infection, why would you use the manuka honey? I saw good results with Carmspack Sh-Emp oil. It has fish oil, hemp seed oil and coconut oil. I think it made a huge difference in her coat and skin, more than any other supplement she was on. So, Yes, I would give the coconut oil and look for some hemp seed oil. Or just order some from Carmen premixed.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Hmm.. all this is intriguing.. I would like to do more research on all that.. I am not opposed ot any of that at all. Just want Titan to get better, whatever it is.


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