# what would your trainer have done??



## Zora (Apr 27, 2011)

I went to a new dog trainer for my 14 week old. I was really just wanting to have him be able to socialize with other pups and their people (figure the obedience not as important right now as socializing). Yesterday was the 2nd class and my little guy, Hero, was VERY interested in the treats the trainer was giving...so during puppy play time he just followed her around and would sit! She said she rewards good behavior and would hand him a treat. Now, I have no problem with that, but I started thinking...Could she stop giving him treats so he will leave her and pay attention to the other dogs (only 2 other pups in class). That was the first thing that made me go HHMMMM. 

Then later she threw down some toys. Hero took one and growled at another puppy when he came near and took off under the chairs! She went over to him and started throwing treats down!!!  She said she was trying to get him to leave the toy. I am concerned and wondering if my thinking is wrong, as I am not a dog trainer. He is a puppy, shouldn't she or myself just told him NOPE and taken the toy?? I feel that food just rewarded his guarding behavior. What would you do? Would you continue with the training/socializing (there are 4 more weeks left). She said she has been training dogs for 6 yrs??

Any advice would be wonderful!


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

I don't know at 14 weeks he even has a guarding behavior with toys. It was most likely a playful growl, but I was not there so I don't know. 

I think rather than having her administer the treats they should be coming from you. To help build the bond. He is obviously treat motivated so I would use it. Redirection away from unwanted behavior is fine, I would have handled it like this: puppy growled with toy and ran under a chair, "leave it" and held out a treat to entice the puppy to come to me and leave the toy, reward if the puppy does what I asked, rinse and repeat"

14 weeks is a great time to begin basic commands and work in repitition to teach them what the commands mean. Puppies at that age are like little sponges and soak up all kinds of stuff so exposure to as many different situations as possible and the teaching of basic commands (ie sit, down, come, leave it, etc) are very beneficial. 

All trainers have their own style of teaching, if you are questioning her technique ask her why she did what she did, and if she is a good trainer she will explain it to you. Trainers are there to really train you the human how to teach your dog new things. So if she can't communicate why she is doing things to you, maybe seek out another trainer who can?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My trainer does not train my dog or give her treats. She teaches me to train her and I reward her. She sounds like a positive trainer and I do agree with what she did but I feel she should have had YOU do it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would be a little concerned with having a dog growl and grab a toy, and then have treats administered. It sounds like the dog is being treated for growling. 

Growling and grabbing the toy at fourteen weeks sounds like normal puppy playing. 

Personally, it depends on what you want. If you want a dog that will go to dog parks -- major free for all with other dogs, or doggy daycare, playing with other dogs, strange dogs, whether you are present or not, I suppose doing exercises like this with puppies about the same age makes sense. 

It is not something I want for my dogs. 

I am fine with my trainers giving my dogs treats, but the dog has to sit by my side, not jump up, and they have to take it GENTLY. My trainers never drop the treat for the dog. I never thought about that though. 

What I do when I meat a fearful dog is I will avert my eyes and toss a treat near the dog. I will progress until I am dropping the treat at my feet, and next offer the treat with my open hand. Then I will start with some eye contact. But this does not sound like a situation for tossing or dropping treats. 

This post is just one non-expert opinion though. I agree that if you have questions, call and ask for her to explain it, and if possible direct you to a book that explains the technique.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

If you are going to be looking for a new trainer and want to make the drive, I know of a great trainer her in Kalamazoo, just 30 minutes south. 

I agree with Jax on the matter, minus the treat for growling. Sounds like she was working on leave it, but with the way you described it, it sounds sketchy at best.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

My husband and I are both professional trainers. (Giving a number of years makes me feel old, but let's say more than 10 but less than 50 )Having said that, I wouldn't feel comfortable critiquing another trainer without actually having witnessed the moment. Where and how the treats are given can make all the difference. 
We do give client dog treats throughout classes, sometimes to show how to do something, sometimes to demonstrate and sometimes just to get a shy pup to look forward to approaching a "stranger". In a class with very young pups like yours, I would be encouraging the pups to play and then teaching the owners to call them away from the play, treat and then release back to play. (along with other things of course) A little lure reward training mixed with some Premack.
Having said all that, sometimes your gut is the best indicator and maybe you should do a bit of research into what other options are available in your area. 
Annette


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## Zora (Apr 27, 2011)

When Hero took the toy, growled at another pup, and took off running under the chairs, he stayed under the chairs with the toy. When the other pup approached he growled at the pup with the toy in his mouth. The trainer came over and tried to lure him out, but the toy was bigger than the food this time. Then she started dropping them in front of him while he was still under the chair. She did say she was trying to get his focus off the toy, but she seemed afraid to take the toy. So after eating a treat he went right back to growling over the toy. After I took the toy from him she asked if he growls over toys at home..which he doesn't and we have 2 other dogs and a 2 year old...which is why I was concerned that he may have felt rewarded for his guarding. It definitely seemed like guarding to me, his head was low to ground in what looked like a stiff position while he growled. If he would have done that at home I would have told him NOPE and taken the toy. That might not be the right way to go about it though, I just don't want any aggression in my dog, but then who does! Again I am not a trainer and am only going off the puppy classes my other dogs were in.


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## Zora (Apr 27, 2011)

Forgot, we hadn't worked on the leave it command yet! That came later that evening.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

For a first puppy class, I think this is a bit odd that the trainer would have toys available...is it a puppy socialization class funtime situation or an intro to obedience? 
I took Karlo to a socialization type playtime, and didn't like the "trainer" at all. She allowed an adult poodle in to get more socialized(which I had no problem with) but when that poodle corrected a pup for biting his face with a growl the "trainer" did a Cesar roll and psst move.

I wonder if this is the same girl? I had a couple other issues with her methods and decided to not go again, and let the owner of the place she was holding her "classes" know his reputation was on the line if he continued to let her train there. He had just opened a pet supply store and let her use his lower level for training.

Puppy classes should be about bonding with their owner and gaining confidence. The class you had last night did neither. There are several on this board from your area, I'm sure they could recommend a place to go. 
Kzoo has a couple that are good, a couple that aren't.... but GR I'm sure has good ones so you don't have to travel far.


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## Zora (Apr 27, 2011)

This is suppose to be a puppy socialization class, though they introduce a few commands, sit, down, follow me, leave it.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

If you think that your trainer is afraid of a 14 week old puppy, I would run not walk to a new trainer! That sounds ridiculous (if in fact she really is afraid).

And i defintely would never treat a dog for food/resource guarding or even if it (more likely) just a puppy playful behavior or one trying to be a big dog. Could also have been influenced because the puppy was in with strange other puppies.

BTW, I would have just reached over to the puppy and taken the toy while talking to the puppy - maybe a treat AFTER I had the toy. But then I am a fanatic about my dogs NEVER showing any aggression whatsoever when I or family or friends take something (anything!) from them. Not acceptable at all! Way too dangerous with such a big dog like a GSD to have any of them get too possesive.


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