# Ran into Kaiya's breeder at Petsmart



## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Took Achilles to Petsmart today and ran into Kaiya's breeder. He is a local BYB and at the time, I had even LESS clue about GSD's and breeding in general and THOUGHT he was a decent breeder. Haven't seen him since I got her and didn't even recognize him at first. He definitely didn't recognize me, but was immediately taken with Achilles, and proceeded to tell me that he was a "german shepherd person". 

He asks if Achilles is intact to which I reply "yes" and then asks if I have bred him. I say no, and he asks why. I say, "I'm not a breeder". And he asks me why not cause Achilles is beautiful?? Almost immediately he asks me if he can have my phone number. I ask him what for. He says that he has a female he would like to breed with Achilles. WHA??? 

I tell him that Achilles will never be bred, he is not breeding material and has had 2 hip surgeries for severe crippling dysplasia. He then asks me if Achilles' sire was "VA" rated. I tell him yes, and he then tries to convince me that if he is bred to a VA2 or VA3 female, that that can help offset the risk of HD. Again, WHAAA??? I become extremely annoyed, but bite my tongue as he tries to give me his card that shows he has started his own "working dog club". I tell him no thank you and proceed to walk away.

Kaiya, herself, was a temperamental mess for a long time and it took A LOT of work and training to get her where she is today. I think what angered me most in all of this is that this man is still breeding GSD's, but has learned absolutely NOTHING about the breed or what he's doing. How do you assess a male for breeding potential within 60 seconds in a Petsmart?? It seemed all he really cared about was Achilles' size and color. He even made the remark that Achilles had GREAT conformation! I almost cackled loudly in the store. I've never shown a single dog in my life, but I know Achilles' conformation is FAR from great - weak pasterns, gangly inward turning hocks, awkward rear.

All of this just made me grateful for how much I've learned over the years in this forum and why I will NEVER again support a breeder like this. This breed deserves so much better, and it makes me sad to think of what people like this are doing to it.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Egads...what a tool. Should put up a comment on ripoffreport and scam websites about this guy - very sad this type of breeding goes on...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ugh


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Wow. Achilles is a stunning dog, with a really nice temperament, but you'd THINK that the fact that he needed surgery on both hips would have deterred that guy. It certainly should have!


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Achilles is my HEART and probably the best temperament I've ever had in a dog, but usually even normal pet people can see that something is not right with his hips. His hips were the WORST and he could barely walk as a pup. For a breeder to try and dismiss that because he has a beautiful coat?? That was just too much.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

What a kook! Can you imagine the look on his face had you told him who his sire and dam were?! But really though, that's really scary just how many people are completely clueless and destroying this wonderful breed. It really makes me sad....


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

I get asked often if I'm going to breed Knuckles and I tell them that for one, he's fixed and for two, I'd never pass on his temperament. He's a great dog, don't get me wrong, but not great enough to pass on. I get so many looks like I am the stupidest person on earth....


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Do people really make bank off of selling puppies? I just can't wrap my mind around doing such a thing with such little regard for the puppies being born and for putting the new owners through so much. It makes me ill. Idk, but if I had a litter of puppies they would be like children!! First off, I would probably want to keep them all, but to just not care at all about their welfare? About anything but the outer beauty and selling pups? And to dismiss physical pain on his, and emotional pain on your part is mind boggling.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Kittilicious said:


> I get asked often if I'm going to breed Knuckles and I tell them that for one, he's fixed and for two, I'd never pass on his temperament. He's a great dog, don't get me wrong, but not great enough to pass on. I get so many looks like I am the stupidest person on earth....


I get the same thing and feel the exact same way. I get asked "why NOT?" every once in a while. I think if more people thought like the majority of us on this board, this breed would not be in such a mess with health and temperament.

Someone one on this board spoke some brilliant words in a thread about breeding recently: "start with what you want to end up with" those words put things into a whole new light.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Breeders make money if they aren't putting anything back into their dogs, i.e. training, titling, x-raying, health testing, etc. 

I've met some wonderful breeders on this forum and after dealing with both weak temperaments and bad hips, I can fully appreciate all the work they put into their programs and breed selections.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Fully agree Lakl!

I finally feel like I am able to spot a reputable breeder. I thought I knew a few years ago, but I think it is a little in what people tell you, and a little live n' learn.


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## Fade2Black (Apr 30, 2012)

When I had my Kaos I would always walk him on the bike path by a road. Numerous times I had people pull up asking if I would mate him to their GSD. When he was a year or two old I would say I can't. Hes limited registration some wouldn't care. At two he had a toe removed because of a hair follicle tumor. I added that in. Still some didn't care. At 5 he started to have his hip problems. Vet described them as a mess. I'll never forget. One clown pulled up. Kept begging me. I gave him about 10 reasons I couldn't or wouldn't. He even followed me to my house in his truck. Before I went inside I said. And if you have any idea to try and steal him. Don't take his friendliness for a green light. You won't get in the door. Then I said if I am home and you try it I'll take my shotgun and blow your head off (I don't own a gun). I got the guy's license plate and gave it to my neighbors on either side of my house just in case....

(edit) Gotta add. All were not bad people. Some were very understanding of my reasons.....


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Wow, I just can't believe he tried to justify and "look past" the hip problems and surgeries....makes me wonder what else he is justifying/looking past and actually breeding.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I am also part of the 'are you going to breed your dog' club. The simple answer I give now is 'No, they are fixed.'


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Gharrissc said:


> I am also part of the 'are you going to breed your dog' club. The simple answer I give now is 'No, they are fixed.'


Haha, I'm going to say that too...and when they see/comment on his manly's hanging down I'll gasp and say, "OMG! They grew back!!!!!"


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

PupperLove said:


> I get the same thing and feel the exact same way. I get asked "why NOT?" every once in a while. I think if more people thought like the majority of us on this board, this breed would not be in such a mess with health and temperament.
> 
> Someone one on this board spoke some brilliant words in a thread about breeding recently: "start with what you want to end up with" those words put things into a whole new light.


 
Lol have met plenty of dogs who come from supposedly reputable breeders some of which are recommended on this and other forums that are crappers. So no I think your wrong there.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Lol have met plenty of dogs who come from supposedly reputable breeders some of which are recommended on this and other forums that are crappers. So no I think your wrong there.


The best possible breeding by the best possible breeder doesn't mean crappers can not be produced. At best, breeding two dogs stands a good possibility to produce equal dogs on average


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

So this guy did not know your gsd was one of his? How did you keep yourself from ripping him a new ass? Maybe I have this all wrong...


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

jang said:


> So this guy did not know your gsd was one of his? How did you keep yourself from ripping him a new ass? Maybe I have this all wrong...


Achilles is not from him. My female was from him, although I'm sure he wouldn't have recognized her since he didn't recognize me. I contacted him when she was around 5 or 6 months to let him know how weak nerved she was and thought he might want to take it in consideration in case he decided to breed the pair again. She would freak out and react to most anything even though I socialized her heavily. I mean, literally, if a leaf blew by she would go berserk. He blew it off just as quickly as he did Achilles' hips and bred the pair again a few months later. 

I should've said something...I wanted to...but it wasn't really worth it. People are going to do what they want to do. I also figured that if he's been doing it all these years and believes he is doing it right, nothing I could say would change that.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

hunterisgreat said:


> The best possible breeding by the best possible breeder doesn't mean crappers can not be produced. At best, breeding two dogs stands a good possibility to produce equal dogs on average


Agreed but my comment was aimed towards the supposition that just because your on the gsd board and believe in health testing you know what a good dog is and would make a great breeder. I dont think a lot of people on here have the ability to objectively select a dog, work it and based on that decide if it should be bred. Imo the issue with todays gsd goes beyond health its the fundamental nerve and workability thats being leached away. There are some very well intentioned people that are a huge part of this. Bottom line if you dont work your dog you dont know [email protected]#t about whether he should be bred regardless of the bloodline or health checks or what his dad or brother did.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Bottom line if you dont work your dog you dont know [email protected]#t about whether he should be bred regardless of the bloodline or health checks or what his dad or brother did.


The general consensus here is that a "reputable" breeder does work their dogs prior to breeding. Most of the breeders here that are recommended usually do in some form or another.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I agree with the others that say this is what ruins this breed, actually any breed.


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## sunsets (Oct 25, 2012)

GAH! Timely thread for me. Yesterday, Heinz and I stopped to visit with my neighbors wee tiny "mix-thing" dog (seriously, I think she's a chihuahua mixed with a terrier mixed with a mini poodle and she's not even the size of Heinz's head but she's sweet).

Neighbor asks, "Hey, do you know if your shepherd's fixed?" I told her he was neutered before I even found him, if he wasn't I would have done it right away. "Oh, that's too bad, I have a friend with a female shepherd who wants to breed her"

Even if Heinz was intact, there is no way the breed would benefit from his genes. Love him to death, and he's got a great temperament, but he's a conformational train wreck with skin issues and thyroid problems. And he's not the brightest bulb in the box, so to speak. Not to mention I have no idea of his pedigree. 

But I'm sure that doesn't matter anyhow to the friend with the GSD bitch. At least I'm not enabling.


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