# He basically bullies me.



## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

I've been working on the resource aggression issue with my now 9 m/o for the past couple of months and I still haven't really been able to completely resolve the issue.

I've tried the whole NILF approach and the "trade-this-for that" approach and other popular suggestions on the forum.

He's gotten better, particularly with food, but with toys and playing, I still have problems.

If he gets something, whether it be a toy, or something that belongs to me (like my expensive textbooks) and I try to take it from him, he will growl and bite me pretty hard. It's just plain painful. I've actually started wearing working gloves while playing with him because he can suddenly get aggressive.

I'm not one to get physical with my dog to prove dominance, but honestly, if he's going to get all physical and nothing else will work, then I'll just have to do the same so he'll get the message of who's boss.

But in the meanwhile, any other ideas I might try?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Have you brought a trainer in or has he been evaluated by any outside sources yet?


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Have you brought a trainer in or has he been evaluated by any outside sources yet?


Nope. Don't have the money for it yet.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I can't play near my Bretta's mouth or I WILL get bit. For sure.

It's play for her.

It's blood for me.

So I only play tug with her or with toys with long ropes/things to pull.

What does your dog class instructor think is going on? How is your dog in class? 

Fact is there is a HUGE difference (to the dog) in real agression and play. But both may look and sound EXACTLY the same to a person until we know better. They can growl. They can snarl. They can bite. There can be blood. And, for the dog, it's still PLAY.

Real aggression is completely different and how it's managed must be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

Sadly, this is best addressed when our pups first hit the house and can be more difficult as they get bigger.

This is what you should have been doing. Notice the age of the puppy and length of the toy!


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Dealing with aggression and resource guarding can be difficult. You can apply everything you read over the internet to your training, but sometimes it's the trainer (you). Not trying to call you a bad trainer, but sometimes you just need an outside sources opinion on the situation. 

My advice would be to start looking around for trainers with experience with dealing with this type of behavior in your price range and start saving up. I think that would do the most good when dealing with these issues.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> BGSD;2282306]*Nope. Don't have the money for it yet.*


May have to rebudget in the house for awhile. With classes only about $20 OR LESS a week, and an emergency room visit for stitches at over $500 you've got a ton of classes for that amount.

Plus if your dog is then registered as a dangerous dog with all that entails (and since loss of life is fairly dire as far as 'expense' goes for a dog).

Talk to your breeder. I'm sure you got your dog from a responsible breeder and they may have hints/tips to help.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Most trainers offer free consultations, just call around.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

What is your mindset when he has your textbooks? How to you approach him?


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

Well obviously a trainer of sorts would be the best way to go, but I can't afford that for now. In the meanwhile, I wanted to try some more things myself.



ShenzisMom said:


> What is your mindset when he has your textbooks? How to you approach him?


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

Is that actually what happens or comedic relief for the thread? ^^


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

BGSD said:


> I've been working on the resource aggression issue with my now 9 m/o for the past couple of months and I still haven't really been able to completely resolve the issue.
> 
> I've tried the whole NILF approach and the "trade-this-for that" approach and other popular suggestions on the forum.
> 
> ...


This is a case of "Pay me now (for a pro to help) OR pay me a lot more later!"

The older the dog gets the tougher it will be for you to train him out of it.

How about putting a collar on him(preferably a prong) and a leash and using a correction and then praise when he stops and does something else. I.E. if he tries to bite when you try to take something away from him = "NO!", whack him with a FIRM correction and then give him another command, = "Sit" and then much praise or a treat when he does it. The correction must be a "Motivational level" correction to be effective.

Some dogs need to be motivated to listen and pay attention to you.

How well does he generally obey you otherwise? Under distractions esp?


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

ShenzisMom said:


> Is that actually what happens or comedic relief for the thread? ^^


It has been pretty much established that Marley's owners were completely incompetent dog owners who made millions out of their incompetence.
Isn't that cute?!
As for the OP's dog, it is unfortunate that his problem was allowed to go on for so long.
The owners forgot who was the dog and who were the humans (in charge).
I hope that they can work it out with the help of trainers and behaviorists.
God forbid they try to take charge of the situation themselves.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

One of the reasons I would never make it as a private trainer in the private world would be situations similar to this. When I am asked: "Why does this happen" (or) "Why does my dog do this", my stock answers are not good business practices. I answer with all sincerity and implied or perceived sarcasm; "because he can" or "because you let him." I've found those answers are not conducive to repeat customers. 

DFrost


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

BGSD said:


> He's gotten better, particularly with food, but with toys and playing, I still have problems.


What did you do to get him to stop guarding his food? You might be able to use some of those same tactics with toys.


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

ShenzisMom said:


> Is that actually what happens or comedic relief for the thread? ^^


Well I tell him to drop it, but he stares at me for a while ("Come and get it") and then makes a run for it. At that point I have to find a high value food item, like a piece of meat, in order to make a trade.




codmaster said:


> This is a case of "Pay me now (for a pro to help) OR pay me a lot more later!"
> 
> The older the dog gets the tougher it will be for you to train him out of it.
> 
> ...


When I have a prong collar on him, he's a completely different dog. Totally obedient. But when I don't, only a treat really grabs his attention. In other words, the positive reinforcement methodology hasn't really produced dependable results for me. 



Whiteshepherds said:


> What did you do to get him to stop guarding his food? You might be able to use some of those same tactics with toys.


The standard stuff that's been suggested on the forums. Although I can't say that he doesn't guard a high-value bone.


Anyways, I'm more interested in seeing if anyone else has had similar issues and how they resolved them.


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## overtgabby (Aug 2, 2010)

He needs to learn his boundries. If he is taking your textbooks, he has WAY more freedom in the house than he deserves at this point. Take him on an On leash tour EVERY time he enters the house. Any inappropriate object he shows interest in, make a SST or an EHH sound, and pull him away. Crate him when you cannot supervise. Do NOT play any sort of tug of war games with him. Praise for any good behavior. Hope this helps.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> It has been pretty much established that Marley's owners were completely incompetent dog owners who made millions out of their incompetence.
> Isn't that cute?!
> As for the OP's dog, it is unfortunate that his problem was allowed to go on for so long.
> The owners forgot who was the dog and who were the humans (in charge).
> ...


I believe someone is better able to help others when they are friendly, and not hostile. You lack social graces. Shame on you. I think you have heard the saying, something about honey and vinegar...seems to have slipped my mind. Maybe you could remind me...?


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

overtgabby said:


> He needs to learn his boundries. If he is taking your textbooks, he has WAY more freedom in the house than he deserves at this point. Take him on an On leash tour EVERY time he enters the house. Any inappropriate object he shows interest in, make a SST or an EHH sound, and pull him away. Crate him when you cannot supervise. Do NOT play any sort of tug of war games with him. Praise for any good behavior. Hope this helps.


No tug of war? Could you please explain your point of view?


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

BGSD said:


> Well I tell him to drop it, but he stares at me for a while ("Come and get it") and then makes a run for it. At that point I have to find a high value food item, like a piece of meat, in order to make a trade.When I have a prong collar on him, he's a completely different dog. Totally obedient. But when I don't, only a treat really grabs his attention. In other words, the positive reinforcement methodology hasn't really produced dependable results for me.


Somewhere along the line you accidentally taught him that the chase game is fun. While I don't agree with the 'no tugging' part of the post, overtgabby has a good suggestion-keep the dog on a line with you in the house. It is called tethering. It is common with new fosters, and new animals in the house. I think it will work very well for you. The dog, with no uncertain terms essentially has no more freedom. Do not allow him to drag you around. Do not give him attention just because he is tethered to you, you only need to praise him every couple minutes if he is behaving. There is very little chance of him getting into something, since he will be within 4-6 feet of you at all times. Stop using the words 'drop it' as to him that is the signal of the keep away game. Instead, matter of factly walk to him and take it from him. Business like. No question, no hesitation. That ____ belongs to you, and he could hurt himself with it. Don't get your heart beating wondering if he will growl or be snarky. Just take it.


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## Sunstreaked (Oct 26, 2010)

I haven't personally experienced this with our pup (13 months), but if she started behavior like this, the first thing that would happen is that she would go back on the leash and tethered to me. I had to do this for about a week a few months ago when she suddenly didn't "hear" any of the commands anymore. I literally had a robe belt tied around my waist with her leash attached to it from 8 AM to 11 PM for most of a week. (I work at home.) 

Eva was gradually allowed a few minutes off and then more and so on. It cured her attitude problem and I will not hesitate to do it again should the need arise. 

I would also put all her toys away and do whatever you need to do to keep your textbooks out of her reach. 

Try also to project confidence when you need to take something from her. The biting has to be painful. Again, what I would do, is crate the dog every time that happens. A firm "no bite!" and "time out", then (without yelling, etc) put him in the crate for a few minutes, as many times as needed. 

I hope some others who have experienced this will have some suggestions. Do try and see if you can get even one session with a trainer for some help.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I'll probably get shot for this (considering some of the emotions in the other threads) but is he neutered yet? At 9mos. he's starting into puberty and this may be the beginning of a _lot _of challenging. If not neutered and you're not showing or working him, you may want to get him in sooner than later. 

However, if you "get all physical" with a 9mo. old pup that's challenging you, you're liable to lose your face. 

I agree with the others. Get a trainer on board. Neuter if you're not too strongly attached to his testicles.


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> I'll probably get shot for this (considering some of the emotions in the other threads) but is he neutered yet? At 9mos. he's starting into puberty and this may be the beginning of a _lot _of challenging. If not neutered and you're not showing or working him, you may want to get him in sooner than later.
> 
> However, if you "get all physical" with a 9mo. old pup that's challenging you, you're liable to lose your face.
> 
> I agree with the others. Get a trainer on board. Neuter if you're not too strongly attached to his testicles.


I'm planning on neutering him at around 1 year old. He has a testicle that's not descended anyways, so I have to neuter.

Anyways for now, I might try keeping him on the leash all the time as some have suggested.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> I'll probably get shot for this (considering some of the emotions in the other threads) but is he neutered yet? At 9mos. he's starting into puberty and this may be the beginning of a _lot _of challenging. If not neutered and you're not showing or working him, you may want to get him in sooner than later.
> 
> However, if you "get all physical" with a 9mo. old pup that's challenging you, you're liable to lose your face.
> 
> I agree with the others. Get a trainer on board. Neuter if you're not too strongly attached to his testicles.


I, OTOH, would not neuter my dog just hoping that it would change his temperament or behavior. No proof whatsoever of that other than some folks very unscientific "beliefs" that it does.

Training and convincing your dog that YOU are in charge is the key to correcting his behavior.

Get a pro who has dealt with this type of behavior, preferably with GSD's, asap - that will be a key.

BUT, try a pro for a while and give them a chance to help BUT do not be afraid to make a switch if the trainer doesn't help after a reasonable time with your concerntrated and dedicated efforts. I had to go thru 3 trainers/behaviorists before I found one who was effective in helping my male GSD.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Neutering just made Havoc goofier. Now he has more time to plot mischief rather than obsessing about sex and territory. He's been mouthier,jumpier and more demanding but behaves in the house. He is still a very good dog. One thing that I think that we've done right is to make sure that there are rules for every game and if he breaks the rules--the fun stops. We play Tug and he always wins the physical part but if he doesn't drop it when I ask him to--game over. Same with chasing--he loves to play keep away and I'll chase him through the house or over at the tennis courts but if he won't come when I ask--game over. I'll interrupt the play quite a few times to reinforce the rules and try to end the excitement when he's tired and willing to stop.

If he were to take something of mine like a book or shoe, I'd turn my back and leave the room--assuming that I could afford some damage to the item. I would ignore him until he dropped the item and then I would attempt to re-engage him by playing something else or acting like a monster and chasing him. Boy, he loves that.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Actually, I'll rephrase-neutering and goofiness occurred at about the same time (9 mths)--don't know if they are related.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

What about picking up an activity with the dog? Snow is coming soon, you could try skijoring. You could pick up a harness and a cart and have him pull it. Give him a job basically. If you don't have money for a trainer just yet, why not look up simple tricks to teach the dog and things you can work on at home? Trying to keep a 9mth old engaged and tired is no easy task, but is it possible its attention seeking behaviour?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I, OTOH, would not neuter my dog just hoping that it would change his temperament or behavior. No proof whatsoever of that other than some folks very unscientific "beliefs" that it does.


Okay so you'd say "obsessing about sex" is not a behavior that can be changed with neuter? Interesting...

And our experience in years of doing rescue is that puberty in a teenaged dog is one of the hardest parts of a male dog's life, in relationship to training and attempting to work with that dog. Suddenly they are humping everything, whether it's sexual or "dominance", and they quite often become basically bone-heads. A dog in the process of sexually maturing will "forget" much of it's training and began challenging it's owners at that point, if that's the way things are headed anyway. 
This actually applies to many mammals we live with and around, whether livestock pets that live in the home.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I can't remember where I read this, maybe Patricia McConnell, suggesting that you tether, crate or leash the dog and have minimal engagement with him- no play, praise, affection, anything other than calm neutral commands to lower the level of stimulation the dog is getting and to let him know that you're not going to play his games when he demands, that you're in control. I did this once with a female gsd the same age and it worked really well. When I was at the computer or watching tv, she was tethered to me chewing or playing with what I gave her. We took 15 min exercise breaks but when she got excited I popped her in the crate without a word for a 5 min time out. It worked really well, but it's hard to do, especially when she nudged me to pet her, or was her cutest to get me to play. It took about 5 days but t made a world of difference. When I did start giving her attention, I called her to me and I initiated the petting. When she tried I crossed my arms and looked up at the ceiling giving her the message. I think it was in Patricia's book 'The Other End of the Leash'.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> Okay so you'd say "obsessing about sex" is not a behavior that can be changed with neuter? Interesting...
> 
> And our experience in years of doing rescue is that puberty in a teenaged dog is one of the hardest parts of a male dog's life, in relationship to training and attempting to work with that dog. Suddenly they are humping everything, whether it's sexual or "dominance", and they quite often become basically bone-heads. A dog in the process of sexually maturing will "forget" much of it's training and began challenging it's owners at that point, if that's the way things are headed anyway.
> This actually applies to many mammals we live with and around, whether livestock pets that live in the home.


My dog never humped anything in his life for the "joy" of it or because of reaching sexual maturity. He also has never forgot his training due to being around a female in heat...it makes it harder for him to concentrate but he doesn't blow me off or display any of the behaviors you're suggesting. 

I think that all too often.....people suggest speutering to change what is perceived as "dominance or puberty behaviors" because they have no experience with a well trained intact animal. IME- Speutering does not change behaviors that have already started. 

Hire a trainer as some have said. Also, Stosh's advice really does work...if you can do it...it is pretty hard!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Im with VonKromeHaus. neither of my boys have ever walked around humping things. No marking problems. No dominance problems. Sure, teenage males will "forget" their training, but so do females. They even do it if they were speutered at an early age. That teenage phase has just as much to do with their mental maturation as it does with sexual puberty.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

I agree with many of the suggestions that have been said in this post thus far. Tethering to you, firmer corrections, etc. Also, when you have the money, a trainer is one of the best investments you can make into your dog. 

On top of all that though, have you considered simply not giving him toys or bones unless it is during a set apart "play/training" time? We had to do this with one of our girls and it worked brilliantly. Basically, nothing was EVER her's to begin with or available to her without us bringing it out and initiating a play session. This was wonderful mainly because she learned that all good things are controlled by us and also I was mentally prepared for the training that was going to be a part of the session. This meant that I was rarely caught off guard or in a weak spot by her resource guarding.


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

I've started doing some work with him using the prong collar to issue corrections when he growls, whines, shows his teeth, and bites or tries to bite me. This is all in relation to the resource guarding. Basically, I give him some toy, then I tell him to 'Give it' or 'Drop it'. If I reach for the toy and he does any of the above actions, I issue a correction with the prong. If he complies, he gets a "GOOD BOY!" and a petting. He definitely gets the message this way, but the challenge is always to be able to ultimately get rid of the prong.

Thoughts on this approach?



Stosh said:


> I can't remember where I read this, maybe Patricia McConnell, suggesting that you tether, crate or leash the dog and have minimal engagement with him- no play, praise, affection, anything other than calm neutral commands to lower the level of stimulation the dog is getting and to let him know that you're not going to play his games when he demands, that you're in control. I did this once with a female gsd the same age and it worked really well. When I was at the computer or watching tv, she was tethered to me chewing or playing with what I gave her. We took 15 min exercise breaks but when she got excited I popped her in the crate without a word for a 5 min time out. It worked really well, but it's hard to do, especially when she nudged me to pet her, or was her cutest to get me to play. It took about 5 days but t made a world of difference. When I did start giving her attention, I called her to me and I initiated the petting. When she tried I crossed my arms and looked up at the ceiling giving her the message. I think it was in Patricia's book 'The Other End of the Leash'.


Well, I sort of tried this recently and it doesn't work for me too much, because he constantly jumps and chews on me.



VonKromeHaus said:


> My dog never humped anything in his life for the "joy" of it or because of reaching sexual maturity. He also has never forgot his training due to being around a female in heat...it makes it harder for him to concentrate but he doesn't blow me off or display any of the behaviors you're suggesting.
> 
> I think that all too often.....people suggest speutering to change what is perceived as "dominance or puberty behaviors" because they have no experience with a well trained intact animal. IME- Speutering does not change behaviors that have already started.
> 
> Hire a trainer as some have said. Also, Stosh's advice really does work...if you can do it...it is pretty hard!


I don't think neutering is really a solution for behavioral problems either, but I do have to neuter him soon since one of his testicles has not descended.



sashadog said:


> I agree with many of the suggestions that have been said in this post thus far. Tethering to you, firmer corrections, etc. Also, when you have the money, a trainer is one of the best investments you can make into your dog.
> 
> On top of all that though, have you considered simply not giving him toys or bones unless it is during a set apart "play/training" time? We had to do this with one of our girls and it worked brilliantly. Basically, nothing was EVER her's to begin with or available to her without us bringing it out and initiating a play session. This was wonderful mainly because she learned that all good things are controlled by us and also I was mentally prepared for the training that was going to be a part of the session. This meant that I was rarely caught off guard or in a weak spot by her resource guarding.


Yes, I might take away his toys. I usually give him access because I crate him when I'm not home for a few hours. But ultimately, when he's outside the crate, he'll just find other toys and then....well see my first post.


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

Bumpy...


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

My advice is to read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Mine-Practical-Guide-Resource-Guarding/dp/0970562942

The prong collar correction method puts you at high risk of creating a dog with a very, very serious problem. You can yank and crank all you want but it will only increase your dog's insecurity and the feeling that he needs to guard his resources and protect himself from you. That is not the kind of leader a dog wants or needs.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

BowWowMeow said:


> My advice is to read this book:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*The dog has to learn just who is in charge of things! It can be you or it can be the dog. I personally prefer me to be in charge and not my dog.*


Absolutely not true about a prong or any other type of correction!

Depends on your point of view, not to mention your dog's personality and also your way of doing the correction! Sometimes in some situations a prong or other type of a correction for aggressive behavior will work just fine (I have personal experience with this method working just fine!).

I don't happen to believe in "Bargaining" with my dog. 

The way it must work is that "I tell" and "He does"!

BTW, if you teach them this at a young age (assuming that you acquire the dog at a normal puppy age, this is VERY EASY to teach them); then you should no problems with resource/food aggression.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Codmaster, 

We will never agree on training methods but make no mistake, my dogs understand very well that I am their leader. Rafi has never, and will never, wear a prong collar. He is a very high drive, intelligent belgian malinois (or gsd x mali, not sure). There are people on this board who have met him. He is not a first time owner kind of dog. 

When I adopted him he had all kinds of issues like leash reactivity, toy resource guarding, inappropriate behavior with other dogs, etc. That's all behind us now. He looks to me to make decisions and he listens to me in all situations, on or off leash. He is a happy, confident dog. None of his training was accomplished by physical corrections or with any kind of collar (other than a flat collar to attach a leash to for walking). 

i want my dog to _respect and trust me, not to fear me_. There is a HUGE difference.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

BowWowMeow said:


> Codmaster,
> 
> We will never agree on training methods but make no mistake, my dogs understand very well that I am their leader. Rafi has never, and will never, wear a prong collar. He is a very high drive, intelligent belgian malinois (or gsd x mali, not sure). There are people on this board who have met him. He is not a first time owner kind of dog.
> 
> ...


Absolutely true - different methods for different folks!

Since you adopted him, it is also great that you know his entire past history ("never worn a prong collar").

And since you now have a dog that listens to (and obeys?) you 100% of the time under any distractions - that is also absolutely super and you deserve a great deal of credit for such a super training job.

Besides the general behavior problems that you mention above, i.e. resource guarding; have you trained your dog in any formal obedience - like AKC obedience or maybe ScH or the like?

I do wonder how "*He looks to me to make decisions*" - do you mean that you make all of his decisions for him? If so, how does he act when you are not with him? if that is mistaken, then what decisions does your dog make on his own? just curious when I hear someone (usually a Pos only advocate) say that their dog lets them make all the decisions??

BTW2, I really doubt that my dog doesn't "respect and trust" me and he most certainly doesn't "fear me" whatsoever. And that in spite of an occassional "correction" - I guess that some dogs can handle a correction without falling apart and others may not be able to do so.

As I said, different methods and approaches for different handlers and different dogs.


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

I'm no trainer, but the way I see it, if dogs like to communicate with each other and with humans via growling and biting, both for play and other things, then I don't see how using a prong collar for correcting bad behavior would cause any miscommunication between me and my dog.


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