# Family GSD Breeder Recs (PA to GA)



## Tetley's Mom (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi,

I was wondering if you all could help me -- I am looking for a GSD puppy (female) for a family pet. I have read through a lot of the boards over the last month and it seems like most people are looking for Schutzhund pups and breeders. 

Any recs for family pet GSDs? We really like the sables, and European lines. 

My husband grew up with GSDs and I had dogs growing up (non-GSDs). We are looking to get a pup within the next 6 months. We are located in NC and would like to adopt within the region (PA, MD, DE, VA, NC, SC, GA, TN) so we can meet the breeder and pick up the pup. 

Thanks!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

You want to find a breeder that breeds to the standard, has all the health clearances on their breeding stock and can PROVE that their dogs are worth breeding.

Most likely these breeders will be NOT be the one that breed "just for pets".

But that's ok. Not every puppy a breeder produces will be sold for working or showing. Some may have minor disqualifications - like not enough drive or not enough reach - that make them perfect for a "pet" home.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Would you be interested in a rescue or definitely from a breeder? There are pups and young adults available in rescues all the time.


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## Tetley's Mom (Dec 1, 2008)

I have been looking into rescues as well, however, all of the dogs are above the age we want. We really want one 10 weeks or under. We have 2 small cats and a little one in our home. We want the pup to get to know them before getting too powerful and scaring them - even if by accident. Hope that makes sense. Just something that is important to us.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Kleinen Hain German Shepherds 

This breeder is also a board member. She is in Kentucky.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have a kleinen hain puppy)) 

i love her to death, she's alotta dog tho, she's not a puppy (8mths now) who will lounge around much ) She's an energizer bunny that definately needs alot of exercise and mental stimulation..but that is HER..and I have the luxury of working only 3 days a week, so I do devote alot of time to her.

A good breeder (which I consider wanda), will match a puppy to your needs/desires/lifestyle and plans you may have for the dog.

My ambitions for masi are obed/rally/agility/ and I'd love to get into some tracking with her if I can find a place near me!!
good luck with your search
Diane


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## TRITON (May 10, 2005)

Agree on Kleinen Hain..you could also check with Lee~aka Wolfstraum-she's in PA and has workinglines.


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## jmopaso (Nov 27, 2008)

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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

But why isn't Hazel titled?


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## jmopaso (Nov 27, 2008)

Hazel is not titled because I did not own her until she was 2 1/2 yrs old. I got her from a very good client, who felt she could not keep her because her other dogs wanted to fight all the time with her. She fits in well here, is beautiful, has very correct conformation, level topline, but there has been environmental and emotional damage done. She is the first dog to realize that someone is turning in the driveway, she is the most ferocious sounding one on the front porch, she's a great family, farm dog. She has come a long way since she has been with us and may now have enough trust and confidence to do some real work, she may be titled yet.
I am working with her daughter, Coldwater Wichita (Cheetah) who just turned a year old. I have done no certifications or competitions with her yet. She is very focused, medium/high drive and has nerves of steel. Titling her is definitely on my list.

I have concentrated on titling my Paso Fino stallion for the last 2 years. He is Nationally placed 2007 and 2008, and 2008 High Point Paso Fino, Trail and Western Pleasure Horse, Nationally and Piedmont Region, as well as Specialty Horse of the Year. In 2009 I will be conditioning him for Competitive Trail, Limited distance and Obstacle Trail. This has taken a great deal of time and $$, but I have accomplished my goals for him and I will accomplish my goals for the GSD's also.
But that's the story of why Hazel isn't titled.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

So if she's not titled....why breed her? Just curious. Especially if there's been "environmental and emotional damage done".


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

People who want "just a family pet" should get and need the same caliber of puppy that a good breeder or sports person wants and needs. Good temperament, good nerves and good health....and the breeders experience and knowledge of their dogs, and extended family connections in order to attain these characteristics. A family pet is probably the most important role a dog can fill - a safe, sane, stable dog who will not become a liability or have some genetic problem that ends up costing thousands of dollars or has to be PTS because of them. That is why a family pet should come from a breeder who is involved in the breed in dogsport and who has a track record of producing nice dogs.

I get people all the time saying - I only want a pet, I only want to spend $XX not $xxx - these are the people who end up fueling the BYBs who throw any two dogs together, the commercial breeders who buy dogs and keep 3 or 4 bitches in runs, who are bred every heat until they cannot produce any more and have a steady supply of puppies for the Sunday paper ads - these are the breeders who produce alot of those pups who end up in shelters adn rescues because they don't understand and maybe don't care to understand what they are producing ( there is a rescue thread that is current that boils my blood - very pretty dog probably PTS because some ignorant person produced a "high drive extreme" litter and sold them to first comers with $$ - and this dog is now going to be sacrificed because someone was marketing to people who "just want a pet"....

sorry - a soapbox here - but I read that thread last night and see it locally all the time - people breeding dogs with issues, not even knowing anything about the bloodlines or even the sire and dam's NAME because they want to sell pets - one guy was trying to get me to breed his 2 year old female or help him find a male with titles for him! And I know the females temperament and lines better than him - and she will NOT produce good pets for the average family!

Lee


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: jmogsdHazel is not titled because I did not own her until she was 2 1/2 yrs old.


I got my bitch at 3.5 years of age and she had one title (U-CH). The rest we did together. Don't let age hold you back!


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: TRITONAgree on Kleinen Hain..you could also check with Lee~aka Wolfstraum-she's in PA and has workinglines.


Ditto...I have a GSD from Lee and I am very happy with her.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Wanda 's male Max is producing very well. He is an excellent example of a working male, with an on/off switch. Focused and intense on the working aspect, very approachable off the ring to small children. I was very impressed with him, seeing him in the midst of a very hectic ag center, just chilling out before he went in the ring.

That is the type of temperament that you look for.

Max just had a litter.


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## 3dogcrew (Apr 23, 2006)

Wolfstraum could not have said it any better. Our 2 shepherds are strictly family pets, and we went to a breeder.
My agility instructor ( for my lab) is into schutzund,he trains with an instructor from Florida that periodically comes to VT.I had mentioned to my instructor how my husband always wanted a shepherd as a child, and still admired the breed and that maybe one day we could include one in our family.I started to do my homework to see if a shepherd would fit into our family, or if we could fit into a shepherd's life. I went to some of the schutzund trials. Met a great group of people. Asked lots of questions.
Several months later my agility instructor let me know of a 4 month old pup that was still available... in Florida.Phone calls were made, interviews done, references checked... and we passed ! 
I don't regret what we paid ( I sold my horse trailer!). I know I have a pup from a reputable, knowledgeable breeder. Our dog is that safe, sane stable dog who will not become a liability or have some genetic problem as described above.
For someone such as ourselves who never had a shepherd, going this route was more practical.
There are way too many byb out there.Just today in our local paper.....purebred all black sheppards( yes sheppards) $250.00
UGH !
Its 5 years later and all is going well... still no regrets !


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## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

hi I'm trying to learn how to use this site, not sure what to do. Would like advice about soon to be 2 female gsd pups part of our family. Have some questions about them. could you help?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

you can start a new topic - find the relevant topic category, there is a button at top of subjects to do that - then you can ask your specific questions

Lee


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## jmopaso (Nov 27, 2008)

Jackie and Liesje,
Liesje thanks for your encouragement. Hazel has come a long way since she has been with us. 
Jackie, Just because she has had environmentally caused emotional issues, does not mean that she has genetic issues. Titles are great, they are definitely proof of the dog's worthiness, although I have seen dogs with titles out the wahzoo that I would not want in my house... She has great bloodlines, great hips, great conformation, great temperament, so I see no need to let time pass her by, because she has needed time and I don't have time right now to spend the enormous amount of time and the huge amount of money to take her out to get the titles. I'd be happy to invite you to my house, so you can see for yourself, you be the judge. 
In the veterinary hospital, I see dogs of all breeds with issues induced by their environment and/or their handling by their owners. It is rarely the dog's fault. I see dogs everyday, that I have changed, by the way I handle them in our environment. They may still be "the boss" at their house, but they know how to behave on my exam table.
Titles are a fabulous asset, but the title does not make the dog, the dog makes the title.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Michoooo



> Originally Posted By: Wolfstraumyou can start a new topic - find the relevant topic category, there is a button at top of subjects to do that - then you can ask your specific questions
> 
> Lee


Mitchoo, there is no live chat here, so you have to wait for a reply. 

If you can take the time to read thru the different topics, posting under the right one will get you many more responses.

And, most of all............DO NOT GET 2 PUPPIES ON MONDAY!!!!!

Too hard for almost all of us to raise and train 2 in the house at the same time. Specially in the winter. Twice as much work and twice as much time from the new owner so it's much more difficult.

These sites explain why smart people only get one puppy. And smart responsible breeders will only allow one puppy/owner:

http://leerburg.com/2dogs.htm

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2043

http://www.caninedevelopment.com/Sibling.htm


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: jmogsdJackie and Liesje,
> Liesje thanks for your encouragement. Hazel has come a long way since she has been with us.
> Jackie, Just because she has had environmentally caused emotional issues, does not mean that she has genetic issues. Titles are great, they are definitely proof of the dog's worthiness, although I have seen dogs with titles out the wahzoo that I would not want in my house... She has great bloodlines, great hips, great conformation, great temperament, so I see no need to let time pass her by, because she has needed time and I don't have time right now to spend the enormous amount of time and the huge amount of money to take her out to get the titles. I'd be happy to invite you to my house, so you can see for yourself, you be the judge.
> In the veterinary hospital, I see dogs of all breeds with issues induced by their environment and/or their handling by their owners. It is rarely the dog's fault. I see dogs everyday, that I have changed, by the way I handle them in our environment. They may still be "the boss" at their house, but they know how to behave on my exam table.
> Titles are a fabulous asset, but the title does not make the dog, the dog makes the title.


Three things...

I understand about environmental factors and poor handling affecting a dog's temperament. Honestly, with a breed as popular and having as large a gene pool already as the GSD, I would still *not* breed a dog with _any_ sort of temperament issue. Genetics can determine how much a dog will be affected by the environment, so while something in the environment may be the trigger, to me poor temperament is poor temperament. It doesn't mean she's a bad dog and won't title, just means I would not consider her for breeding or ever buy a pup from such a dog.

Second, I agree that the titles don't make the dog but they do show that you have worked with the dog enough to make a good call as to her strengths and weaknesses. You admit you wish you spent more time on it, but then say she is breedworthy - how do you know? Also, to me a breedworthy dog has the right drive and attitude in any situation, not just at home. I would need to see that dog perform under pressure in the ring, or somehow demonstrate this ability. At home in her own comfort zone is one thing. Can she focus in a new environment surrounded by loud noises, pushy people, other dogs in close quarters....? I could not say whether I considered my own dogs breedworthy without extensively training and testing them in a variety of different environments.

Finally, as for hips and conformation....I guess at this point it is all subjective, if there are no OFA or PennHIP ratings or no judge's critiques to back it up.


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## jmopaso (Nov 27, 2008)

Ok Liesje,
I was thanking you for the encouragement, according to the above, you must not have really meant to be encouraging.

Thanks again, and by the way she is Penn Hip certified for breeding.
Sorry for bothering you guys.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm not encouraging you to breed the dog, but to do the work with her before making that decision. It seems you are discouraged about working with her and titling her, and that's a shame b/c her age should not hold you back (in fact her maturity may come in handy), but I can't condone breeding a dog that hasn't really been proven outside of her own home. What worries me is that you freely admit you haven't had time to work her and are putting money into the horse. What about all the time and money it takes to care for her during pregnancy, raising the puppies 24/7 for at least 8 weeks?

IMO when people decided to breed, they should first commit to wanting to better the breed. Then go out and try to find the dog they think that can do that, keep looking until the right match is found. Many breeders have gone through several bitches before the right foundation bitch is finally found. I am not comfortable with doing it other way around - getting a dog for a pet and then thinking it should be bred.

Another thing to consider is which owners/breeders with studs will breed to an un-trained, untitled female. You don't want to sell yourself short in that regard.

So I'm not saying don't breed her, but don't breed her because you love her and think she's great. Only breed her if you truly believe she has something to bring to the table as far as the breed in general.


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## jmopaso (Nov 27, 2008)

Liesje
Your concerns and opinions are duly noted.
Thanks again


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: NC_PetMommaI have been looking into rescues as well, however, all of the dogs are above the age we want. We really want one 10 weeks or under. We have 2 small cats and a little one in our home. We want the pup to get to know them before getting too powerful and scaring them - even if by accident. Hope that makes sense. Just something that is important to us.


If you definately want an 8-10 week old pup from a breeder, go for it. I'm not a "rescue nazi."







However, I'd like to mention that at the rescue I work with, most of the foster families have cats and many have children, even toddlers and infants. A good rescue will be able to match you with a dog that is great with cats and kids and has a fabulous temperament. 

If you have a baby, that's even more reason to consider rescuing an adult dog. If you look around the forums, you'll see GSD pups being referred to as "fuzzy alligators." It's because they bite. A lot. And they have little needle-sharp teeth that seem to find their way into baby's skin. . .and your skin. . . and your furniture. . .

A good rescue group will be able to match you with a dog that has proven himself/herself to be patient and gentle with kids. 

Again, if you're set on a puppy, no problem, but I don't like to see people discard rescue as an option because I have kids/I have cats/he won't bond with me/all rescues have health problems/all rescues have baggage/you never know what you're getting. 

Personally, I belive that for someone who's just looking for a pet, rescue can be a great solution because you know what you're getting into.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Emoore
> 
> Personally, I belive that for someone who's just looking for a pet, rescue can be a great solution because you know what you're getting into.


You also have a better idea of the health of the dog. With a puppy you could end up with a whole list of "problems" even if bought from a reputable breeder.

Believe me, getting a puppy is NOT a guarantee with it will be cat friendly! 

Good luck in your search for your new family member. Be it a puppy from a breeder or a rescue.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

What Tracy and Emoore said ^_^

I go to breeders myself, because I want specifics in a dog (I'm big into dog sports). However, I am 100% positive that in the future when I have my own space and can do rescue and foster work, I'm going to have some foster failures. 

Whenever somebody approaches my dogs and I for more information on GSDs because they're looking for a family member, I always, always, *ALWAYS* present the option of rescue first  Most of the time they consider it at least, and I give them my contact info in the event they'd like to search for a breeder instead.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: Xeph when I have my own space and can do rescue and foster work, I'm going to have some foster failures.


Foster failure= when the foster family adopts the dog. Just in case someone might misconstrue it as something negative.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Just wanted to add that I too buy from breeders. I HAVE had "pound puppies/dogs" (and cats) in the past. But in my current situation that is not possible (as far as an adult dog) because my old female is NOT "strange adult dog" friendly. However she is fine if they are brought home as "baby" puppies.

In the future though I DO hope to get another pound puppy or dog.


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