# Looking for a King Shephard



## rena (Nov 19, 2005)

I am a german shephard owner and we have decided to add on to our family. We have decided that we are interested in getting a larger shephard 90 pounds plus and have seen some photos of some beautiful king shephards.

Is there anyone on here who owns a king shephard or a larger breed shephard and can tell us where we could go to get one?

Thank you


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Aren't King Shepherds a completely different breed? Actually a mixed breed?


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Can't help on locating a King Shepherd, but if you post your location it might help others steer you in the right direction.
Also, it's Shep*herd* not Shephard (it's a herding dog).


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Google King German Shepherds and you should be able to find what you are looking for....good luck!


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## Jd414 (Aug 21, 2012)

rena said:


> I am a german shephard owner and we have decided to add on to our family. We have decided that we are interested in getting a larger shephard 90 pounds plus and have seen some photos of some beautiful king shephards.
> 
> Is there anyone on here who owns a king shephard or a larger breed shephard and can tell us where we could go to get one?
> 
> Thank you


If u want a larger gsd check out royalair german shepherds got my pup from there and he's great


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## VanBuren shepherds (Dec 3, 2012)

Yes, a king Shepherd is not a full blooded German shepherd. They come from German shepherds and other large guardian dogs. They do not qualify for AKC registration do to the inconsistencies in their offspring. I owned one at one time. They are very beautiful and large, but not a standard German shepherd!


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## arizona (Mar 27, 2012)

i dont know if they ship or not or even if they still breed but google king shepherds tucson az and there is a breeding kennel there i forget the name but i know its there i have been there and they had really big good looking dogs and i mean big like they bark and you feel it in your feet kind of big! good luck!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm not going to try and talk you out of a king shepherd, just want to add, if you do find a breeder, make sure all your health testing (hips & elbows) are in order. 

You can find BIG german shepherds if you look around, one posted Royalaire.

Just to add, sometimes dogs look bigger than they actually are. People used to think my male Dodge was HUGE, when in fact he was within standard and weighed about 85 lbs at his heaviest.

I have met a few shilohs who looked enormous but most of it was coat and they weren't as heavy as shilohs are supposedly.


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## VanBuren shepherds (Dec 3, 2012)

Exactly! When I bought my King shepherd they said he was around 130lbs. And he looked every bit of that, but he actually only weighed 93 lbs. Most of the size was just the long hair. He was very a very large boned dog, but not as big as advertised. He also only had one descended testicle. A lot of people say the health issues with this breed is not worth the risk. I learned to just stick with the real thing. A purebred GSD.


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## rena (Nov 19, 2005)

Thank you for the advice. I still want a king shepherd though. I have seen the videos and don't care if i cannot show them. I am in b.c. canada and there does not seem to be any king shepards here. Normally they are about 140 pounds. I did some research on them under king shepherds wikipedia. 
THey are gentle giants and there is more than enough shephard in them to say they are real shephards.

Any links would be helpful as well as anyone on here who owns one and can tell me where to purchase. I am going through king shepherd withdrawals.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

rena said:


> THey are gentle giants and there is more than enough shephard in them to say they are real shephards.


Um... no. "Real" Shepherds are GSDs that have not been mixed with other breeds. Once you've introduced another breed, you have a mixed-breed dog. Not saying there's anything wrong with a mixed-breed dog, just don't expect your "King" shepherd to be just like the GSD you used to have.

Have you ever owned or met a "King" shepherd?


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

King Shepherds are a cross between the German Shepherd, the Alaskan Malamute, and the Great Pyrenese. Just because they are not a pure breed, does not mean that they cannot be great for one's lifestyle. If you find that this 
"breed" is right for you, then by all means, go ahead and get yourself one. Just make sure that the sire and dam are OFA certified/health tested.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

shephards, King Shepherds and German Shepherds are different
breeds. the shephard is the most rare breed. i don't think
there's any Shepherd in a shephard.



rena said:


> Thank you for the advice. I still want a king shepherd though. I have seen the videos and don't care if i cannot show them. I am in b.c. canada and there does not seem to be any king shepards here. Normally they are about 140 pounds. I did some research on them under king shepherds wikipedia.
> 
> >>>> THey are gentle giants and there is more than enough shephard in them to say they are real shephards.<<<<
> 
> Any links would be helpful as well as anyone on here who owns one and can tell me where to purchase. I am going through king shepherd withdrawals.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I found a King Shepherd/Great Dane mixed litter in Gibsons, BC ... maybe the folks can tell you who owns the sire, or where the sire came from, and you can find your puppy that way?
King Shepherd x Great Dane Puppies for sale in Gibsons, British Columbia - Nice pets in Canada


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

arycrest said:


> I found a King Shepherd/Great Dane mixed litter in Gibsons, BC ... maybe the folks can tell you who owns the sire, or where the sire came from, and you can find your puppy that way?
> King Shepherd x Great Dane Puppies for sale in Gibsons, British Columbia - Nice pets in Canada


I don't think it's a good idea to encourage backyard breeders.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I don't think that's a great dane with the puppies--certainly not like any great dane I've ever seen.


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## Ayla (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't think it's a full blooded great Dane. It looks mixed...


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Look at Caucasian shepherds if you really want BIG!!


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

There's an international King Shepherd club, it might be your best bet for finding a healthy one or learning more about them. (KSCI provided by Bravenet.com


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Freestep said:


> Um... no. "Real" Shepherds are GSDs that have not been mixed with other breeds. Once you've introduced another breed, you have a mixed-breed dog. Not saying there's anything wrong with a mixed-breed dog, just don't expect your "King" shepherd to be just like the GSD you used to have.



Doesn't a "real" shepherd normally stand on two legs rather than four?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

that's hilarious!!



Whiteshepherds said:


> Doesn't a "real" shepherd normally stand on two legs rather than four?


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

caucasian shepherd - Google Search

This is one very impressive looking animal!!


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## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

Omega Shepherds tends to have largish males. My GSD is about 100 pounds, but his sire (Gunter at Omega) weighed in at about 120 pounds. They are pure-bred GSD's though, not "King" shepherds.

Good luck with your search!


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## Ayla (Oct 11, 2012)

Since everyone is talking about large shepherds and standard sizes I'm a little confused. My sister in laws roommate adopted a veteran GSD she weighed in at 130. She is quite lanky but very large. I'll go out on a limb and say she is abnormally large? The photos are of her. I haven't really been around too many GSDs so I figured she was about average... 
















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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Sometimes a big one will show up in a fairly normal size litter just like there can be smaller ones. My Sting (32 inches high 130 lbs) was twice as big as the others in his litter. His parents were 85 lbs & 90 lbs. His littermates grew to be 75 - 80 lbs. For myself, size isn't important, but the temperament, and I wanted a companion only - no showing -no work. If you wanted a show dog - the big guys are oversize according to the standard so can't shown in conformation.


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## rena (Nov 19, 2005)

Well I contacted a shelley watts who lives in the states. She has a puppy available but when i asked the price it was about 3500. From the research I did they average 1800 to the max of 3500 if you choose to get one that will be for show and you want to breed them so you do not get them fixed. No contract was mentioned. 

I think she is reputable. I do not know. She sent me pics of the pup. Said the father is larger than normal at 150 and the mom is about 100 or so. I saw the pup and it seemed the same size as my average sized shepherd when he was that age at 8 weeks. 

I need to know what to be careful for what to look out for, and if shelley watts is legit. She seems to be.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

3500 for a mixed breed dog? Wow! To each his own I suppose....

After some googling:
King Shepherd Home page Her website. Kennel name is Chateau De Chief
Welcome to The Amercian King Shepherd Club Website Looks like she is the president of their King Shepherd Organization - her dogs seem to have a strong monopoly on this market.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Generally what is recommended when browsing for a breeder: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> 3500 for a mixed breed dog? Wow! To each his own I suppose.....


Not much different than the $3000 I paid for Yoschi,,, he may be a full blood gsd with pink papers and sch3 parents both... but he turned out to be a monorchid and I can't breed or show him... besides mixed breeds tend to be healthier .. we paid $1200 for a goldendoodle recently, ourselves...


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> ... besides mixed breeds tend to be healthier .. we paid $1200 for a goldendoodle recently, ourselves...


Why did you pay that much for a mixed-breed? I know people do it all the time, but it always mystifies me. Maybe you can help me "get it"... I know some working dogs are crossbred for a purpose, such as LGDs, herding dogs, sled dogs, etc., and that makes sense... but just for a pet? 

I have to say, having worked with dogs for 20+ years, that mixed-breed dogs are NOT necessarily healthier. They get allergies, hip dysplasia, mange cancer, etc. etc. etc. just like purebreds do. There are some diseases and anomalities that are specific to certain breeds, especially those with a small gene pool, but aside from that, mixed-breeds can suffer from just about anything that a purebred does.

I have a client who spent something like $1500 for a "toy cockapoo" over the internet. The dog is a mess. Allergies so bad the dog has to be kept on prednisone. The breeder promised the dog wouldn't get over 10 pounds, but I think she's about 20 or 25. Overweight because of the prednisone, but still roughtly twice the size than what was promised.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

rena said:


> Well I contacted a shelley watts who lives in the states. She has a puppy available but when i asked the price it was about 3500. From the research I did they average 1800 to the max of 3500 if you choose to get one that will be for show and you want to breed them so you do not get them fixed. No contract was mentioned.
> 
> I think she is reputable. I do not know. She sent me pics of the pup. Said the father is larger than normal at 150 and the mom is about 100 or so. I saw the pup and it seemed the same size as my average sized shepherd when he was that age at 8 weeks.
> 
> I need to know what to be careful for what to look out for, and if shelley watts is legit. She seems to be.


Here's what I would do if I were you. First off, what is the OFA (and I would check this on their website) for the puppy's parents? No OFA, no sale Second, is the parentage cleared for DM (again you can check this out on the OFA site) - no DM - no sale. Third, what is her health guarantee? I would want a minimum 1 year on congential disorders, 2 years on hips/elbows. Fourth, any other guarantees? Like ears stand up, size (since that is important to you). Fifth - will she take the puppy/dog back if you can't keep it ? Sixth - what is the temperament of this puppy - has she tested it - will it fit into your lifestyle?

Here's a size guideline, now my Sting is a purebred GSD, but at 9 weeks he was 23 lbs. - as an adult 130 lbs. 32 inches high at the shoulder. So ask the weight of the puppy. If you are interested in a big dog, you may want to also consider the Leonberger.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human:
Your argument is flawed. YOUR particular purebred GSD has one testicle so you cannot show or breed -this happens all the time and is an unfortunate result when one wants to breed/show. What is your guarantee? If you paid for a show pup - you should get a replacement or whatever is specified by your contract. If you specifically paid for a show/breed puppy, this should have been an essential criteria when you agreed to the contract. This is YOUR particular issue and not a way to reason/excuse exorbitant prices for mutts. 

Purebred showlines out of titled/koered parents WILL cost that much - it is commonplace. But to charge premium prices for mixed breeds that you can find at your local shelter and then to justify breeding/showing a mixed breed? I can't understand that. Same goes for your goldendoodle - I see these regularly at shelters for about 200$ adoption fee. I love my mutts - have 3 in the home now - 2 fosters and a Golden X that is mine. I love her to bits, but I would have a hard time containing my amusement if you wanted to charge me 1k+ for her - she's cute, but those prices for mixed dogs? Wow...

As I added to the other post: TO EACH HIS OWN. The price is whatever the market will bear - if there is a market for oversized mixed breeds, then that is perfectly justifiable for Shelley to charge that for her dogs. If there are people buying it, why not charge it? The breeder sets her prices accordingly because the MARKET will bear it. Would I buy it? No, but what I buy and support is different than what you buy and support. TO EACH HIS OWN. However, when you go to a public board and ask for advice on the breeding/prices, I will give OP my opinion because OP asked for it. 

Designer mixed breeds (shi-pom, goodledoodle, labdoodle, king, cockapoo or whatever silly hybrid name they come up with) are just that: mixed breeds. They have no breed standard, organization, and limited to very recent history. They seem to be all the rage these days so the market prices have skyrocketed for these dogs. Golden oodles or poodle retrievers were the fashion a few years back - I have recently heard from more than one Golden/lab breeder that they NO longer do this because there is no longer a market for these dogs. Market no longer demands these dogs - prices have decreased and this designer mix is no longer done as much (at least in my experience and what I've heard). 

5 min search on petfinder:

Goldendoodles:
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Golden Retriever | Mchenry, IL | IL - Bailie
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Golden Retriever | Marion, IN | DUKE
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Golden Retriever | Decatur, IL | IL - Clooney
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Golden Retriever | Wellston, MI | MI - Zoey
http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/NJ656.html There is even a oodle doodle rescue just for these mixes! 

Sled dog + GSD mix aka Kings:
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Alaskan Malamute | Muskegon, MI | Shayna
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Alaskan Malamute | Kalamazoo, MI | Prancer
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Alaskan Malamute | Barrington Hills, IL | Nuka
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Orland, IN | 'Kota'
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Alaskan Malamute | Belleville, IL | Morgan, Mandy, Maple
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Stover, MO | BEBE

If oversized is the siren call to the King, there are plenty of dogs over standard:
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Urbana, IL | Sam
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Indianapolis, IN | Bear
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Indianapolis, IN | Aries and Gracie
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Indianapolis, IN | Alberto (Full Blooded)
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Livonia, MI | Lance
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Huntingburg, IN | Kodiak
Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Glendale, MO | Jethro-Puppies for Parole

This is not to push you into a rescue, but here is my point: if you just want a mixed breed dog that is oversized and has a soft temperament for the home, there are plenty of these in the shelter. These dogs cannot be registered with any national breed organization, they cannot show, most have very minimal titles/ratings (if at all), genetics/mix is variable because you are mixing genetics of two completely different breeds, very little history on health certs (go look at OFA site for King sheps - there are a handful listed)...so my question is: why pay premium prices for dogs that have not and cannot be proved/judged in any public platform or venue? We push everyone (even those looking for pure GSDs) to consider and evaluate the breeder based on their history, accomplishment with the breed, and how/if they are judged in a PUBLIC relatively unbiased venue. Shelley calls her breedings the "top" King Shepherds, but shows her own dogs in the club that she founded and is the president of....conflict of interest much? 

Anyway....to each his own!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

And no, mutts are NOT healthier. Out of the three mutts in my house at the moment: 2 have terrible allergies that require daily meds and one has severe temperament issues exacerbated by chronic ear infections. It is a common myth that mutts don't have the same issues as purebreds and this is certainly not something to hang your hat on when purchasing mixed dogs for premium prices.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Why did you pay that much for a mixed-breed? I know people do it all the time, but it always mystifies me. Maybe you can help me "get it"... I know some working dogs are crossbred for a purpose, such as LGDs, herding dogs, sled dogs, etc., and that makes sense... but just for a pet?
> 
> I have to say, having worked with dogs for 20+ years, that mixed-breed dogs are NOT necessarily healthier. They get allergies, hip dysplasia, mange cancer, etc. etc. etc. just like purebreds do. There are some diseases and anomalities that are specific to certain breeds, especially those with a small gene pool, but aside from that, mixed-breeds can suffer from just about anything that a purebred does.
> 
> I have a client who spent something like $1500 for a "toy cockapoo" over the internet. The dog is a mess. Allergies so bad the dog has to be kept on prednisone. The breeder promised the dog wouldn't get over 10 pounds, but I think she's about 20 or 25. Overweight because of the prednisone, but still roughtly twice the size than what was promised.


Just like any dog... you investigate the breeder and look at prior litters,,, we saw the most beautiful goldendoodle at the park... they gave us their breeder's number and we did additional research as well... mixed breeds are less likely to get genetic disorders that are caused by crossbreeding.... not guaranteed, nevertheless. As for price, we live in a market economy. $1200 is the going rate for quality full sized goldendoodles from reputable breeders.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Just like everything people want... some things simply cost more regardless of what would seem "right" ... I am in the koi hobby and show koi competitively... my wife will never, ever understand why I am willing to save for months to buy a fish... she can't see the difference between two similarly marked fish, but one is worth $75 and the other worth $5000... a person has to decide how much they want something .. if you're ok with a scrawny goldendoodle then you can get one for $500... but for a healthy large bodied goldendoodle from a proven breeder, the prices start at $1000. C'est la vie
Recessive gene issues are definitely reduced with mixed breeds


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Freestep said:


> ... I know some working dogs are crossbred for a purpose, such as LGDs, herding dogs, sled dogs, etc., and that makes sense... but just for a pet?


And the ones that are, are not $1000+. I do flyball and the Border Staffies, Border Jacks, and Border Whippets rule but they are nowhere near the prices people are paying for Doodles and whatever-poos. People are mostly breeding them for their own teams and programs, not to supply a demand or make money. I was interested in getting a Border Staffy from someone who really knows her stuff (and she has thought through generations of the pedigree, no different than any good purebred breeder) and was told I'd probably wait two years so I got a free rescue JRT instead.


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## rena (Nov 19, 2005)

I think its because her dogs seem to be the largest that they cost the most. I have yet to find a site where dogs are at least 125 plus pounds. They are average as to what i can get up here. 
I would expect that at this price it NOT be neutered. If i choose to breed with another large shepherd, at that price I should be able to. Though it says on the website that I will not receive the papers, whatever those are, if i do not. 
I just don't want to breed. Im just a person who likes large shepherds. 

I want a pup NOT a dog so i will not be getting a rescue. Great for those who do this kind act but it is not for me. 

I need some links please. All the sites I'm getting they are 90 pound shepherds.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Unlike a lot of doodles... goldendoodles were specifically bred for a working purpose,,, that being service dogs for people with allergies. The goldendoodle is a great combination of temperament, intelligence, aesthetics and the practicality of minimal shedding ... that being said... we bought him simply because my wife thought they were cute...


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Why is size your one and only concern? 

If you are so keen to get an extra large dog, look to the breeds that are bred and standardized for larger sizes. 
Large breeds: 
Leonberger
English Mastiff
Malamutes
Rotties
Russian Terriers
Great Pyrenees
Great Dane
Saint Bernard
Newfies
Irish Wolfhound
Bernese Mountain Dog



> I would expect that at this price it NOT be neutered. If i choose to breed with another large shepherd, at that price I should be able to.


A high purchase price does NOT justify breeding the animal. There are plenty of pricey animals that should NOT be bred. Shelley has specified that any animals sold for breeding will be done so with GREAT discretion - pets are sold on a condition that they are not bred. You are now advocating and hinting that you will not respect the breeder's wishes and go on to do as you like. When you give your word, keep it. If you do not like the breeder's stipulations, do not buy from them. But to be dishonest and go against the specified contract does not show integrity or honesty on your part. 
_King Shepherd Puppies
"*All Puppies go to their new homes on a STRICT SPAY NEUTER CONTRACT, to protect the integrity of our breeding. When a new owner furnishes the proper proof of Spaying or Neutering their puppy, Chateau De Chief will then provide the new owner with their American King Shepherd Club, Inc. (AKSC, Inc.) registration papers. Only under the most preternatural circumstances, will we even consider placing a puppy with breeding rights that will be under the very strict rules and regulations of the breeder."_

Most, if not all, the people on this forum will not recommend breeders that breed solely for size. 

The King Shepherd is NOT a German Shepherd. It is a mix of GSD, Great Pyrenees, Malamutes and who knows what else. Shelley charges those prices because she can - not due to her dogs being the largest. She is also a "founder" of the breed so she can probably charge higher prices due to a customer base, demand, and history.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

People on this forum are really not going to do the research for you when it comes to large shepherds. The reason these breeders don't want you to breed their dogs is because they want to keep the supply of dogs down so that they can charge these kinds of prices. You want something special, they're the only ones that have it, you're going to pay a premium. If they allow you to start doing the same thing, then there is more supply in the market and the price for that dog goes down.

Goldendoodle's are actually not bred for a purpose any more except for being "cute." The vast majority of breeders have never in their life produced a single working/service dog and the ones that are service/working dogs come from organizations that have their own breeding programs and do not sell their puppies to the public. Although in general they are more hypoallergenic than a lab or golden retriever, they still produce enough dander, saliva, and hair for people with allergies to react to. There is an interesting article about the guy that "invented" the breed in which he says its the worst thing he's ever done. He tried to get a litter of dogs for ONE customer that was super allergic. They tested 10 puppies, and out of 10 he was only not allergic to 3 of them. They used one of those three for him. The rumor spread that these dogs wouldn't affect people with allergies, but its false, the majority of them will still react.

Mixed-breeds are also not healthier than purebreds. They get all the same genetic material that purebreds do from their PUREBRED parents. The only reason people think they are healthier is because there is no club or registry keeping track of the health statistics. Genetics don't work like we wish they did. If both parents have a hidden "bad" gene, the puppies have a chance of getting that problem. Just because you mix two breeds doesn't mean the "stronger" or "healthier" gene is going to win out.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

qbchottu said:


> Generally what is recommended when browsing for a breeder: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


Please make sure you read/understand and have gone thru that above link.

That way when you get into reading King Shepherd Home page site for Shelly Watts you'll be better judge her as a breeder that is a fit for you.

As a bit of an aside there is QUITE a coat on long haired GSD's and if you get a 150 pound one it's even more of a time/comb/wash/shedding issue. Having pet way too many long coated dogs with those tangled mats behind their ears, and the chunks of fur behind their back legs, I know it's hard to keep up. Add the factor that I then know people who pay and get a long coated dog that they then just shave all the time because of the coat............  what's the point of that????

LIke that they PennHip http://www.kingshepherd.com/Puppies/Puppies.htm


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

qbchottu said:


> _"*All Puppies go to their new homes on a STRICT SPAY NEUTER CONTRACT, to protect the integrity of our breeding. When a new owner furnishes the proper proof of Spaying or Neutering their puppy, Chateau De Chief will then provide the new owner with their American King Shepherd Club, Inc. (AKSC, Inc.) registration papers. Only under the most preternatural circumstances, will we even consider placing a puppy with breeding rights that will be under the very strict rules and regulations of the breeder."_


According to this...those papers mean nothing as well. It's a club registration and this dog can't be shown in AKC or CKC shows anyways (not an approved breed). If you were able to breed it with a AKC registered GSD, the club wouldn't register the puppies and neither would the AKC so they would be paperless. You can show these dogs in "rare-breed" shows, but to the dog world these mean nothing. You are just paying $3500 to have something "special."

I know there is a lady in my state producing over-sized long haired GSDs that are AKC registered. Not sure what her name is or kennel name is, but I've seen the dogs and they are 140 lb male and 120 lb female. She just uses the same breeding pair of large GSDs over and over again to get consistent large dogs with long hair. I felt the hips of the male through the long hair, and the way he moves, its clear he has major HD. The female's hips are higher than her withers...a very strange thing to see on a German Shepherd.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Yes the papers mean nothing and these dogs can only be shown in AKSC - American King Shepherd Club (of which the breeder is the founder/president). The show titles are advertised as:
The AKSC Consecutive, Top Winning Male King Shepherd in Breed from 1998 through 2003; and the AKSC Top Obedience King from 1998 through 2004!
King Shepherd Adults and King Shepherd Adult and Trained Dog information

My point is that if the breeder has certain contract stipulations such as limited breeding rights - that is HER prerogative. It is WRONG to misrepresent your intentions and lie to the person selling you her puppy. I don't agree with her breeding program, but I would not ever condone or justify breaking her contract with anterior intentions than what you tell her when you go to buy from her. You stated you wanted a pet, she will most likely not sell you a breeding dog or give you "rights" for that, she specifies that pets need to be spayed/neutered, but OP has said that they will leave the dog intact and possibly breed. That is wrong and breaking your word/contract.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Kings used to, and maybe still are, shown in ARBA shows, (american rare breed association). 

The started as Shilohs, decided to take a different direction and made them into "kings"..

As I previously posted, I won't talk you out of one.

I agree 3500 is quite an excessive price in my opinion, I guess it comes with owning "a rare breed" or "designer breed" (which means mixed). I honestly don't get why someone would pay 3500 for a puppy unless it's just to say "my dog cost 3500 and it's a KING" and I don't know why anyone would pay for a 'designer breed' either..There are tons of them in shelters.

I would like to know the oldest age of one of these Kings? Bet their life span is alot shorter than gsd, and more in line with a pyr/st bernard..

I also agree (don't recall who said it),,a coated dog is going to look ALOT bigger than they really are, and alot of that coat is adding to weight..

To each his own on the size thing, just because parents weigh xxx doesn't mean a puppy produced will follow suit..My gsd Kodi, was the product of standard parents, yet, he topped out at 32" at the shoulders and 125lbs..(the mutant..

So what would happen if you paid 3500 for a puppy, and that puppy didn't top 100? 

Also I see in their contract,,all dogs are sold on spay/neuter contract which I think is a good thing


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> goldendoodles were specifically bred for a working purpose,,, that being service dogs for people with allergies. The goldendoodle is a great combination of temperament, intelligence, aesthetics and the practicality of minimal shedding ...


 Yeah, I've read the breeders' websites too, I know the pitch.

The reality of it is, I've met a lot of 'doodles and they would not be able to "work" their way out of a wet paper bag. They are crazy hyper, unable to calm, and they have a particular screeching bark that puts my teeth on edge. I can't imagine someone trying to make a "service dog" out of such an animal. Maybe you got a nice one, but they are being bred for a pet market, not a working market. Oh, and some of them DO shed.

Standard Poodles are fine, Goldens are fine, Labs are fine. But there's some kind of unholy synergy when you start mixing them together. You seem to end up with the worst attributes of both breeds in one frustrating package. Sure, they're cute, but I can't get behind a breeding program that is based on false pretenses. You couldn't give me $1200 to TAKE a 'doodle... I have to groom several of them, and in most cases, I can't wait to get them out of my shop... they're generally friendly and sweet, but difficult to work with.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Yeah, I've read the breeders' websites too, I know the pitch.
> 
> The reality of it is, I've met a lot of 'doodles and they would not be able to "work" their way out of a wet paper bag. They are crazy hyper, unable to calm, and they have a particular screeching bark that puts my teeth on edge. I can't imagine someone trying to make a "service dog" out of such an animal. Maybe you got a nice one, but they are being bred for a pet market, not a working market. Oh, and some of them DO shed.
> 
> Standard Poodles are fine, Goldens are fine, Labs are fine. But there's some kind of unholy synergy when you start mixing them together. You seem to end up with the worst attributes of both breeds in one frustrating package. Sure, they're cute, but I can't get behind a breeding program that is based on false pretenses. You couldn't give me $1200 to TAKE a 'doodle... I have to groom several of them, and in most cases, I can't wait to get them out of my shop... they're generally friendly and sweet, but difficult to work with.


LOL... My wife gets what my wife wants... labradoodles are as you say they are... but my limited experience with goldendoodles, with golden retriever sires, is a whole different story... right now he's only eight weeks old.. I got Yoschi about a month ago.. she said she wanted a dog of her own,,, guess she doesn't count the Lhasa apso and shïtzu,, lol... anyhow,, this goldendoodle we saw at the park was the best mannered and most beautiful representative of the doodle clan I have ever seen....


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## rena (Nov 19, 2005)

I don't want other dogs. Or whatever a doodle is. I am only interested in shepherds.
I own one and he's only 70 pounds. I love and spoil him to death. 
I don't think i will be going after shelleys pups as i have been on another forum and none seems to like her. Not a good sign for me. Im looking at a king shepherd breeder where theres are around 125 pounds and up. Kings yes, they are a mix. With a pyranese and a shilo. Im okay with that. Its still a shepherd. I don't intend on doing any breeding. That is NOT my interest. BUt thank you on the heads up for the papers. Yes they are useless but its nice to have something to show my friends I guess. lol


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

rena said:


> I don't want other dogs. Or whatever a doodle is. I am only interested in shepherds.
> I own one and he's only 70 pounds. I love and spoil him to death.
> I don't think i will be going after shelleys pups as i have been on another forum and none seems to like her. Not a good sign for me. Im looking at a king shepherd breeder where theres are around 125 pounds and up. Kings yes, they are a mix. With a pyranese and a shilo. Im okay with that. Its still a shepherd. I don't intend on doing any breeding. That is NOT my interest. BUt thank you on the heads up for the papers. Yes they are useless but its nice to have something to show my friends I guess. lol


Did you ever get a look at Caucasian shepherds?? Not sure they're available in this part of the world,, but certainly worth the time to look at the pics,, they're amazing!! I wasn't pushing doodles,, lol,, just using them as an example of mixed breeds selling for more than a couple hundred and being worth it..


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you are looking for a larger German Shepherd, have you thought about contacting Doc? You could PM him on here

Welcome


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> Did you ever get a look at Caucasian shepherds?? Not sure they're available in this part of the world,, but certainly worth the time to look at the pics,, they're amazing!! I wasn't pushing doodles,, lol,, just using them as an example of mixed breeds selling for more than a couple hundred and being worth it..


The Caucasian Shepherds are a whole lot of dog. They are actually becoming more and more available here in the U.S., which is a shame. It would take a very particular type of situation for these dogs to thrive in.

As for Goldendoodles? There is a BYB-almost-puppy-mill-type in my area that pumps out a large number of these mixes and we have seen many of the resulting dogs in rescue. They aren't all low shedding, and if the parent stock are poor specimens of their breeds, their resulting puppies are probably going to have issues, too. A well bred Golden and a well bred Poodle are such fantastic dogs in their own right. Why would anyone feel the need to purposefully mess with that? 

The gentleman who first bred the Poodle mixes to be service dogs had made many statements that he regrets it:
The Australian

If the "founder" thinks it is a bad idea, who are the rest of us to disagree?
Sheilah


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> LOL... My wife gets what my wife wants... labradoodles are as you say they are... but my limited experience with goldendoodles, with golden retriever sires, is a whole different story... right now he's only eight weeks old.. I got Yoschi about a month ago.. she said she wanted a dog of her own,,, guess she doesn't count the Lhasa apso and shïtzu,, lol... anyhow,, this goldendoodle we saw at the park was the best mannered and most beautiful representative of the doodle clan I have ever seen....



I have a "goldendoodle", he is healthy right now but he has a seriously flawed temperament... Never again. If you met him, you would think he was the greatest dog in the world but the reality is very different. Though he is from a rescue and most likely from a puppy mill situation.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> Did you ever get a look at Caucasian shepherds?? Not sure they're available in this part of the world,, but certainly worth the time to look at the pics,, they're amazing!! I wasn't pushing doodles,, lol,, just using them as an example of mixed breeds selling for more than a couple hundred and being worth it..


A Caucasian Shepherd is so far different from a King Shepherd I don't see how anyone who is looking for one would consider the other. The only things they have in common are size and a long double coat. Minor similarities when looking for a pet.

The Caucasian has not been bred to be a pet. It is a very serious livestock guarding dog.

The King Shepherd has not been bred to be anything but a pet.



sit said:


> They are actually becoming more and more available here in the U.S., which is a shame.


I've seen the same happen around here with Maremma Sheepdogs. There are always Maremmas or crosses listed on Kijiji or in the newspaper all claiming working parentage. Far too many and way more than are necessary for guarding livestock.


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