# Screening/Rescue Basics



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Tess Phila PA 
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I would love to know how to go about telling a reputable rescue from a bad one. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO INSIST THAT BEFORE CONDEMNING ONE OR A PERSON THAT A BASHER DO RESEARCH BEFORE JUMPING THE GUN AND BEING ACCUSATORY AND MEAN TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOOD INTENTIONS AND ARE ALL VOLUNTEERS. So maybe this item on a website is a good factor but it cannot be the end all for a decision on what is a good or bad rescue. I do not think that the test is so cut and dry.
Sometimes people are so eager to badmouth a rescue who is doing everything they know how - but it is not like there is a magical "How To" book - and people who become involved as volunteers or fosters or adopters do bad things or just PLAIN OLD make mistakes.
HERE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE. I recently had an adopter. He had EXCELLENT references including vet, employment and dog trainer references. He adopted a dog from me. He signed the contract promising (among other things) to give the dog back under penalty of law etc if he could no longer or did not want to take care of it. He passed the home visit with flying colors and has a wonderful wife and good children whom I personally met. He then a few months later took his dog he adopted - a dog he HAD to have, for which always expressed love, a dog he photographed and emailed pictures of, a dog used to call me bragging about how smart she was and a dog he drove 11 hours one way to pick up with his entire famly on board - sell the dog to someone near his home without telling me anything. I was sick about it.
So what do you do as a good rescue to solve the problem? I have now spent many sleepless nights and also weeks and many staff hours trying to find where the dog is now (no one got the lady's name or number when she called the person who put the microchip in her name instead of the name of the rescue so my hands are tied as no one will give me the info). No court in the world would entertain a case if there is no dog physically present within its jurisdiction. No person can physically inspect the buyer because no one knows where that person is and the person on the microchip will not cooperate. What do you do and how do you avoid being thought of as uncaring?
Any other ideas on keeping a rescue a good rescue? And for my problem any ideas on what I should do in the future? OR DOES SOMEONE KNOW OF A GOOD "HOW TO" BOOK?????!!!!!!!!!!!!????????
Tess in Philadelphia 

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#1073873 - 05/14/09 07:28 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from oth [Re: Tess Phila PA] 
Myoung Myoung 
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We have few dogs come back into rescue in the last 6 mos and am thankful that they contacted us. Due to different situations they needed to release them back to us. Obviously they come back as a different creature than what was adopted out so our work is cut out for us. 
Given that the person you adopted the dog out to sold him it sounds like it was a money issue totally not a in the best interest of the dog. Do you have a clause in your contract stating they must be returned to you?
If people knew our rescue and knew what we did for the dogs any hearsay another person would put out is just that. We are very transparent. There is no perfect rescue and we try hard to protect the dogs but once they are adopted we lose a certain amount of control. I would try to go after the first adopter and force them to release the dog back to you. 

Edited by Myoung (05/14/09 07:30 AM) 
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Prinz-gsd and Ava-rescue gsd
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#1073880 - 05/14/09 07:39 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Tess Phila PA] 
mychance mychance 
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We have taken adopters to court, and won, when adopters have not returned the dog to us as stated in the adoption contract. Yes, it did cost us a little in legal fees, but the judge honored the contract. I don't know about others in our group, but I tell adopters about that policy when we go over the contract before placing a dog. 

We also register the microchip in SASRA's "name" with the adopter as a secondary contact. I think of it as a safety net for the dog because SASRA is always available (we use an automated phone system with a beeper) if the dog is lost while the adopter might be away from home. 
_________________________
Jill
Thanks to Save A Shepherd Rescue Alliance, we couldn't be happier to be sharing our home with:
Roxy Belle (11 yr. old female GSD) and Ward (3 yr. old male GSD) and the many fosters who touch our hearts. 

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#1073912 - 05/14/09 08:06 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: mychance] 
Tess Phila PA Tess Phila PA 
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Thanks for the thoughts. I have a pretty darn tight contract where they bear legal fees and costs and all that good legal stuff. I also make them initial all the important clauses. But people who want to break contracts do that. You cannot create a contract to be moral.
I guess may be when someone offers to pull a dog in another state I need to insist that the chip be put in my rescue name (I frankly never thought it would occur to her to do otherwise) because now I am frozen out of any information on the dog. I after all did pay all pull fees and the person's gas - but some of these people who offer with all their good intentions may just do things out of ignorance or inexperience.
In this case the person who "bought" the dog from my adopter was taking it to a vet who found the microchip information and called the puller who then did not take down a name and number so I could locate the dog's home, so hopefully for the dog she will be cared for by the new owner, i.e. continue going to a vet. While that is not my goal or what I contemplated it is better than certain alternatives.
I of all people do not mind proceeding in court but I don't know where to file to get the dog because I do not know where the dog is. The puller from a southern state did not find out any information to trace the person back. I will also be more careful on my pullers - also while trying to recognize they usually mean well and get overwhelmed too.
I guess I wonder if there is a society (like the bar association) which can be self regulating - like "here are the model codes for good rescues" and "I am a proud member of" or words to that effect. It is not a "how-to" book but it is an outline. Alot of rescue good practices avoid debacles and health issues and complications which are exponentially worse if you do not take precautions and good first steps with a new dog. I think this is a very important topic. I am glad someone started this string. I don't know how to do that yet.
Thanks again. I appreciate the input from more experienced people.
Tess in Philadelphia 

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#1073927 - 05/14/09 08:21 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Tess Phila PA] 
dd dd 
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I may not be understanding this, so pardon me if this is a stupid question. 

The contract is between the rescue and the adopter - therefore is the onus not on the adopter to produce the dog? Suppose they had not rehomed the dog but had a healthy dog put to sleep because she became an inconvenience. Again there is no dog to produce, but the adopter is clearly in breech of contract. So where the dog is or is not is immaterial - no? 
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dd




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#1073938 - 05/14/09 08:28 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: dd] 
mychance mychance 
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dd - that's certainly the way we would view (have viewed) it. The adopter signed and then broke the contract so that's where we follow-up. 

We haven't always chipped our dogs so I'm sure there have been some who have been rehomed without SASRA knowing. In the end we all just do the best we can to be organized and consistent with the details that are within our control. 
_________________________
Jill
Thanks to Save A Shepherd Rescue Alliance, we couldn't be happier to be sharing our home with:
Roxy Belle (11 yr. old female GSD) and Ward (3 yr. old male GSD) and the many fosters who touch our hearts. 

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#1073941 - 05/14/09 08:30 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: dd] 
Tess Phila PA Tess Phila PA 
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Not at all a stupid question. Where you bring suit depends upon the goal of the suit itself. My major goal would potentially be to have the dog back. I have to sue where the dog is located for the court to have jurisdiction over the dog. Even if I knew where the adopter was today - I have no desire to get him returned and he has no money apparently so I have no way to punish him.
Then add to that the adopter moved and allegedly according to the puller's email "sold" the dog because the adopter could not keep his house and fenced yard.
I cannot find the adopter. I have certainly tried and we all have. I reported him the authorities where he used to live and have done everything I know how to do to reverse locate him and even to locate his wife. NO LUCK.
And since the puller did not get the location of the buyer I am out of options unless we come up with something here????? Anyone at all????????? Sorry - I know that was not the point of this topic. I think I hijacked it.
Tess in Philadelphia 

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#1073947 - 05/14/09 08:34 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: dd] 
jazy's mom jazy's mom 
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I agree with dd. Your legal issue is with the adopter. You need to contact him and tell him that if he does not notify you of who he sold the dog to then you will take him to court for breech of contract. The big issue here is finding the dog and making sure he/she is in a good home and if he/she isn't then taking legal action to have the dog returned to you. 
_________________________
Amy 
GSD Rescue of East TN

Liesel adopted 2/7/04 
Judy rescued 1/16/05, foster failure
Trelkez owner surrender 9/27/07, foster failure

In loving memory of Jasmine 2/2/95-11/24/03, she has left this world but she will never leave my heart. 

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#1073953 - 05/14/09 08:39 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Tess Phila PA] 
jazy's mom jazy's mom 
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I didn't realize that you do not know where the adopter is currently located.

But I don't understand the following comment 
Quote:
Even if I knew where the adopter was today - I have no desire to get him returned 


The whole point is to make sure you know where everyone of your foster dogs are and if they are not in a safe environment then you should do everything in your power to have the dog returned to you/the rescue. 
_________________________
Amy 
GSD Rescue of East TN

Liesel adopted 2/7/04 
Judy rescued 1/16/05, foster failure
Trelkez owner surrender 9/27/07, foster failure

In loving memory of Jasmine 2/2/95-11/24/03, she has left this world but she will never leave my heart. 

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#1073955 - 05/14/09 08:39 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Tess Phila PA] 
dd dd 
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Thanks for the clarification - it wasn't clear in your previous post that the adopter had disappeared. It sounds as if the dog in this case probably ended up in good hands, but I can understand your wanting to check the situation out yourself - it is what I would want to do too. 
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dd




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#1073971 - 05/14/09 08:54 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: dd] 
Tess Phila PA Tess Phila PA 
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By that statement I meant the adopter is not someone I want to bring back to PA. I want the dog (Queen) back so I can find her a good and decent home.
What could I really want with the bad adopter? He has nothing I want even if I could find him - which I have been trying to do and cannot. Sorry I was not clear. The comment "I don't want him [the adopter] back" was my attempt at sarcasm.
I have no desire to get even and whatever with the adopter; I want to make sure the dog is cared for and returned. I don't know where it is. I also don't know where the adopter is. But if I could have the option of finding one and only one of them I would pick finding the dog.
Tess in Philadelphia 

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#1073980 - 05/14/09 08:58 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Tess Phila PA] 
jazy's mom jazy's mom 
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Thanks for the clarification. After I read it again, I thought this may have been what you meant. 
_________________________
Amy 
GSD Rescue of East TN

Liesel adopted 2/7/04 
Judy rescued 1/16/05, foster failure
Trelkez owner surrender 9/27/07, foster failure

In loving memory of Jasmine 2/2/95-11/24/03, she has left this world but she will never leave my heart. 

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#1074021 - 05/14/09 09:33 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: jazy's mom] 
MaineLady MaineLady 
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Just sort of an aside to this discussion. GSRNE has a clause in our contract that any legal action will take place in the Commonwealth of MA (where we are based). That way you can bring suit over any adopters without YOU having to travel. Something to think about for those of you that place dogs in other states/parts of the country.

Chris 
_________________________
Chris & the 6-pack
Akir, Yane, Kelly, Amber, Belanna, & Red
V Ylsa v. Fleisherheim, Sch 2 - My Firecracker - 7/4/94-11/1/08
There are many things in life that will catch your eye,
but only a few will catch your heart...pursue those. 

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#1074040 - 05/14/09 09:54 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: MaineLady] 
mychance mychance 
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A helpful aside - thanks. SASRA very rarely places dogs outside the Eastern Pennsylvania area, but for us that might include NJ or DE and because we have a volunteer out west, it has even included Ohio once. 

However, adopters do move. We've been pretty lucky with this issue (or maybe blissfully ignorant) and most of our adopters stay in touch over the years. We do an annual mailing around the end of the year so that has helped us get some updates on folks who relocated out of this area. 

Tess - I know it's small, but maybe you can take some comfort in knowing that at least the new "owner" took Queen in for vet care . . . 
_________________________
Jill
Thanks to Save A Shepherd Rescue Alliance, we couldn't be happier to be sharing our home with:
Roxy Belle (11 yr. old female GSD) and Ward (3 yr. old male GSD) and the many fosters who touch our hearts. 

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#1074045 - 05/14/09 09:57 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: MaineLady] 
Tess Phila PA Tess Phila PA 
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A jurisdiction selection clause is a good idea if enforceable in your state. The problem is even if you get an order in MA then you still have to take that order to where the dog is to enforce on it and the court there will not enforce on it to give the dog back if the dog is not there.
Of course that limit only pertains to the remedies of getting the dog back and enforcing on a money judgment against the out ot state adopter. Assumign the assets of the out of state adopter are in his resdient state then you have to have that resident state court enforce the order. That is easier because the bank accounts do not have four legs like your dog but still there are some hurdles too. So it is a good idea to have the clause, and I have that type of clause but it still presents some issues on enforcement of a judgment.
Tess in Philadelphia 

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#1074728 - 05/14/09 07:49 PM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Tess Phila PA] 
kathyb kathyb 
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It is hard to keep track of a dog once it has been adopted out unless the adopter wants to inform you of how the dog is doing. I am sure that dogs get rehomed and rescues never know about it. Because of the dog being adopted out of state it makes it all the harder to inforce any legal issues with the adopter. Because of the economy and people becoming unemployed and having their homes taken away from them they are some times forced to do things they would not have done before. Have you tried the adopters place of work or the vet that they used? 

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#1074733 - 05/14/09 07:54 PM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: kathyb] 
Tess Phila PA Tess Phila PA 
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He had been laid off but we did call the wife's work and maybe we can follow up with the vet to see if they know where they are - GREAT IDEA!!!!
Truth be told though this state or that state - it would still be hard to find him. I can say we do follow up calls every few weeks to make sure all is going well.
Tess in Philadelphia 

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#1074743 - 05/14/09 08:07 PM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Tess Phila PA] 
ShannonT ShannonT 
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Sorry Tess. Hope everything turns out okay. Hang in there!! 
_________________________
Shannon T
Dogs: Raleigh & Denver (Hwy Hounds, '02), Moose (Lab, '05), Ruth (GSD, '07) & Suma (GSD, '08)
Cats: Taylor ('99), Banjo ('00), Sydney ('01), River ('02), Oliver ('07) & Rosey ('09, Green River rescue)


http://www.myspace.com/goodmoose


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#1074845 - 05/15/09 01:05 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Tess Phila PA] 
middleofnowhere middleofnowhere 
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Tess, the new person took the dog to the vet, she cared enough to have the chip registration changed to her name. At least that is a good sign. 

So far as this tarnishing your standing as a rescue -- if incidents like this became a pattern, there could be a problem. A low percentage (ratio between issues and adoptions) would indicate a good rescue - and an honest rescue who wasn't hiding problems. 

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#1074868 - 05/15/09 03:29 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: middleofnowhere] 
Tess Phila PA Tess Phila PA 
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How often does this happen - is there anyone else? I am just beside myself. I know it is hard to say that answer but is there anything else to be done?
I have some of the most caring people checking references and doing the due diligence. We always smile when you make the vet call and they know the person by first name with a happy story. We really try but this area is very populated, and there are bound to be bad seeds. 
You are right on the vet and microchip issue - so may be as a fluke it will be okay for the dog anyway. That is the most important part.
Tess in Philadelphia 

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#1074984 - 05/15/09 06:28 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: middleofnowhere] 
Tess Phila PA Tess Phila PA 
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The other thing I thought of last night is may be there is a better way to check references. Obviously we are all volunteers but may be there is a protocol to a reference check(s). Mostly these references were checked by a lady in Maine near Kevin - a member of this board "brt".
May be there is a form to use we didn't know about or may be there should be a more thorough check or a way to see the nuances to the person. Inow listen to Audrey check and I know she is extremely thorough. She tells me that she thinks of asking questions like this is her own personal pet she is giving up and really does an interview.
I am sure brt had her own system too and meant well/tried hard and there are many things that would easily escape a reference check but thorough is important and may be two people doing it would work better. Back then I did not have two people but I surely have lots more than that now.
Anyone have a method which they have found works better? Suggestions are always appreciated.
Tess in Philadelphia 

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#1075010 - 05/15/09 07:00 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Tess Phila PA] 
Myoung Myoung 
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I always start the application by talking with the possible adopter to get a feel for them, you would be surprized what you find out just chit-chatting. I also spend alot of times with the references talking about the potential adopter. The vet by far determines alot of times whether it will proceed. 
A must is the homevisit. And to really listen to what they say in thier visit.
Even with all these in place you never know. 
If they want a quick adoption.........its a red flag. Alot of times our process can drag on 3 wks....from start to finish. If they wait in anticipation its a good thing. 
_________________________
Human owner to:
Prinz-gsd and Ava-rescue gsd
Travis-kitty
Barnaby-bunny



White Paws GSD Rescue
In-Take Coordinator
http://www.whitepawsgsr.com 



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#1075020 - 05/15/09 07:14 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Myoung] 
Tess Phila PA Tess Phila PA 
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Thanks. Excellent pointers. I had just started to ntice the comments mad at the home visit are very very important - not the comments they want you to hear but the ones that are made off the cuff. Very true.
Tess in Philadelphia 

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#1075076 - 05/15/09 07:58 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: kathyb] 
Darcy1 Darcy1 
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Originally Posted By: kathyb
It is hard to keep track of a dog once it has been adopted out unless the adopter wants to inform you of how the dog is doing. I am sure that dogs get rehomed and rescues never know about it. Because of the dog being adopted out of state it makes it all the harder to inforce any legal issues with the adopter. Because of the economy and people becoming unemployed and having their homes taken away from them they are some times forced to do things they would not have done before. Have you tried the adopters place of work or the vet that they used? 


I disagree that it is hard to keep track of adopted dogs, although, not 100% full proof, a rescue hopes that it has done a thorough job on the front end of 1) checking references, 2) a home visit and pre-screening discussions as to the best suited breed/gender/age/temperament dog for the applicant; and 3) that our contract is solid.

Our foster homes all check-in with their foster's forever family, now I realize that BDBH is less than a year old, so it is easier at this point for us to keep track of our placed dogs. However, we initially check in often (to the point of overkill sometimes , via email and/or telephone/person and then every month or so. In fact, many of our adopters, check in with us and send updates and pictures, even before us. Admittedly, some we hear from more frequently and some of it depends of the particular foster. 

We have adopted dogs to 3 to CT/ 1 to NH/ 1 to OH and 1 to VT - all home visits were done by trusted/well established rescues, every single adopter had to come to NY, some came more than once, and we know how each of those dogs are doing.

We maintain a database of adopted dogs and adopters.

To this day, I still know how our first foster dog (five + years ago is and where he is).

I also hope that if any of our rescue dogs should end up at a shelter - lost or O/S - the microchip information would kick in. BDBH cannot ever be removed as an imformant on the chip and the main contact for all those chips is BDBH/me.

There is always room for improvement on this process also. As it is easy to keep in touch/track the first year, it is thereafter that I worry a bit and am hoping we can continue to do as well.


Edited by Darcy1 (05/15/09 07:59 AM) 
_________________________
Darcy E. Drons
Intake Coordinator/Shelter Liaison
Big Dogs, Big Hearts Rescue Inc. ("BDBH")
Email: [email protected]
http://www.bigdogsbighearts.petfinder.com
http://www.bdbh.org (work in progress)


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#1075095 - 05/15/09 08:13 AM Re: How to distinguish reputable rescue's from others [Re: Darcy1] 
Tess Phila PA Tess Phila PA 
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We have a master log too. We also biweekly check with fosters and adopters and constantly request pictures or do visits. We are probably annoying that way. 
I first heard of this in mid April and have spent weeks trying to find him afterward. The microchip non-removal is a GREAT idea - is that true for all microchips that a registrant can be marked a priority instead of the person adopting or physically present during application of the microchip?
Technology (even though I am arguably illiterate in that respect) can be our friends.
Tess in Philadelphia 



Taken from posts on another thread and moved here.


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