# Is the GSD right for me?



## oatmeal (Apr 11, 2017)

Hi all,

This is my first post on the forums. I’m looking for advice on whether or not a GSD is the right fit for my family. We (myself, spouse, and three boys ages 8, 5, and 1.5) are moving into a new home this summer. My oldest boy is pining for a dog terribly and we’ve decided we will add one to the family once we’re in the new house. He has said for about a year what he really wants is a GSD. As I started researching I accidentally completely fell in love with the breed. My husband has been reluctant to agree for a number of reasons, mostly the shedding and that he is skeptical we can meet the dog’s energy needs. He’s pushing for a Golden Retriever rescue. I am at this point completely hung up on the idea of the GSD, but soliciting opinions to see if that’s maybe just foolish. 

Thanks for any insight


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## Adirondackman (Apr 6, 2017)

With three young ones I'd say you'll have the energy that GSD needs, go for it, there is no better dog for your kids and yourselves.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

This a question you have to ask yourself. As long as you are aware of the time and attention a Gsd needs as they have much energy. If you are willing and able to devote the time then sure. They make great family dogs and great with kids and enjoy going on many family outings.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

If you are being real with yourself and are sure you have enough time to work with the dog you should be okay. Your child may want a dog now but some kids aren't so enthused once they actually get the dog. I'm not sure how your family works but it is great if you set up beforehand some ground rules and responsibilities for the kids to make sure they stay involved, such as cleaning up dog poop and taking the dog for walks and playing with the dog. Your kid might be one of the ones who stays committed to the dog, I don't know you and your family though. Make sure you take the time to find a good breeder and research what type of GSD you want. Also I'd look into a couple other breeds just to make sure the GSD really is the one you want. Personally I'd look into the temperament and purpose of the dog first, then it's looks no matter how hard it is, dogs are cute. For example hounds and huskies can make great pets but they are also know to run and be loud, they are a lot of work. GSDs can be great dogs but they generally need a lot of work, they aren't always the 'easiest' dogs but they are a joy to have.(I feel like this is a jumble of words, hopefully you can tell what I'm trying to say?  )

Good luck in whatever you do decide.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Hi Oatmeal! You would probably be a great family for a GSD, but it might be easier to make a recommendation if you gave us some more information about what you expect from a dog and how you plan to take care of it.

We have a 1.5 year old son (and another on the way) and 2 GSDs. GSDs aren't the easiest breed to own, but they're not the hardest either. Have you or your husband ever had dogs before? Do you have any training experience? GSDs definitely take some commitment--they need training, exercise, structure and boundaries. I don't think the average GSD is ideal for the casual owner who has no interest in training or exercising a dog. 

I would recommend taking a puppy to obedience classes for the first year or two (at least that is what we do and it has worked out well for us). A fenced yard is also helpful as it's nice to have an easily accessible place for your dog to run off leash (and a lot of GSDs aren't good dog-park candidates). 

To help tip the scales in favor of getting a dog w/a stable temperament and good health, I would also recommend saving up, researching, and getting a puppy from a reputable breeder or from a rescue group that temperament tests their dogs before placement. Stable nerves and good temperament are party genetic, I believe. 

A well-bred, well trained GSD will likely be one of the best dogs you've ever had, but an untrained, under-exercised GSD will not be a joy to live with.

(EDITED to add: Also, keep in mind that most GSD puppies like to play bite A LOT, which some people find hard to deal with. Search for puppy biting on this forum for tips).


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

oatmeal said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This is my first post on the forums. I’m looking for advice on whether or not a GSD is the right fit for my family. We (myself, spouse, and three boys ages 8, 5, and 1.5) are moving into a new home this summer. My oldest boy is pining for a dog terribly and we’ve decided we will add one to the family once we’re in the new house. He has said for about a year what he really wants is a GSD. As I started researching I accidentally completely fell in love with the breed. My husband has been reluctant to agree for a number of reasons, mostly the shedding and that he is skeptical we can meet the dog’s energy needs. He’s pushing for a Golden Retriever rescue. I am at this point completely hung up on the idea of the GSD, but soliciting opinions to see if that’s maybe just foolish.
> 
> Thanks for any insight


I'm in a DINK situation, and we got a GSD as our first dog. We were early thirties, somewhat active (became much more so after getting the dog). I've sort of reconfigured my entire life outside of work to accommodate what the dog needs, but that was something I was happy to do; I wanted to do obedience and some type of dog sport/activity, and we found that was a lot of fun. Your oldest is maybe a tad young to do those things with the dog now, but by the time your dog was 2, I'd think he'd be old enough. 

Re the shedding, I find it absolutely hilarious that your husband is pushing for a Golden instead. My spayed shepherd bitch sheds year round and she does a mild version of coat blowing a couple of times a year (a few extra tumbleweeds). The shedding is constant and the struggle is real, but I'm not vacuuming daily, put it that way. Three to four times per week and making sure I go over her with a pin brush at about the same frequency, and it isn't so bad. Golden owners have told me that if I ever got a Golden, I should expect to eat hair, find it in beverages, find it floating in my kitchen cupboard and refrigerator, it is just everywhere and constant and the sheer volume has them marveling at how there's still hair on the dog.

Back to the GSD, I've found based totally on anecdotal evidence that some individuals seem to need more physical exercise, some need more mental, and some need a balance. They all need both, but how the balance tips might be different. I'm one of the lucky ones whose dog needs both in approximately equal measure. So we do Nosework, play brain games in the house, run obedience, AND go for walks and play raucous idiotic games in the house and take weekend runs/hikes. The advantage to this is that she loves to be active both physically and mentally, and I can throw just about anything at her and she'll think it's fun - the downside is that it's just my husband and me who provide her with all of that stimulation. You may find that with more people who can engage the dog, it is easier.

For what it's worth, as she's maturing, I find her developing (slooooowly, because I didn't teach her very well) more of an off switch in the house. Every retriever I've been around ever seems to have no off switch. They don't power down; they just recharge.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Just thought I would tell you what my life is like with a German shepherd AND a golden retriever. First of all, while my shepherd is only 7 months, he sheds much less than my golden girl. I'm not sure if his age has to do with it, but when I find stray hairs, they are always from my golden. I brush Brooklyn (the golden) at least four times a week, so she sheds way less than the average dog anyway. I dog-sit for another golden puppy, and holy cow! I've never seen so much fur come off of one dog! The owners never brush their golden, and you can really tell. As far as I see it, my golden sheds more, but my shepherd is WAY more crazy in other ways. Think "running around the house for hours on end."


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## oatmeal (Apr 11, 2017)

Thanks for the replies. My number one concern is the kids' safety -- particularly the one year old, especially as I've read that GSD puppies (more so than other breeds?) are land sharks. I don't know if maybe a one year old and a GSD are an especially bad mix. Second to that, meeting the dog's energy needs -- we live in Florida and tend to stay inside (in the a/c) from...April or May to November, haha. I realize that will have to change, but becoming more active would be a positive change anyway I think. One thing that kind of crushed me is we visited our home site last week and I only now (after seeing the foundation poured) realized just how small our yard will be. It's a new house in one of these new developments with tiny yards. There's room for a swing set for the kids and maybe some room to throw a ball for a dog, but not much room for running. 

As an aside my husband grew up with dogs, I have absolutely no pet or animal experience -- in fact I've been scared of dogs for most of my life, and this is part of what prompted us to consider adding a dog to the family-- we don't want our boys to turn out the same way, haha. Also my oldest son has terrible emotional meltdowns that have been a real parenting issue for us lately, and we have this (perhaps romanticized) idea that a dog would comfort him and maybe help prevent his meltdowns from reaching quite the extremes they do now. I realize that may be silly though. 

I over-analyze and over-research things, and I've just about thought this dog issue to death at this point. I've read many posts where people said to keep in mind the high exercise (physical and mental) needs of the dog, but as someone who has never owned a dog before (especially a German Shepherd) I really don't know what that means. Going on a jog? Once a day? Twice a day? And how much could this vary depending on our specific dog? -- I fell down a rabbit hole reading about show vs. working lines and Czech vs. East or West German vs. American....basically at the end of the day we are looking for a loving, intelligent dog to become another member of our family.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Personally I don't think dogs are ideal for a family with infants. Wait until your youngest is at least 4 and can better understand the proper treatment of animals. My GSD likes kids and is good with them, as is my Great Pyr, but when you have bigger dogs they will often knock kids down on accident. My Pyr loves kids more than I've ever seen a dog love kids, she sees one and will stay with it and insists on being cuddled, but she's also about 30 inches tall and 110 lbs, so any kiddos who aren't big enough to handle being bumped by her are just going to end up on the ground. She also is also less hyper than GSDs generally are. 

There are also no breeds of dog that will be 100% reliable with kids. You will have to always keep an eye on your dog and your kids when they are together, are you ready for that? Most incidents occur when the parent is not watching. 



Adirondackman said:


> With three young ones I'd say you'll have the energy that GSD needs, go for it, there is no better dog for your kids and yourselves.


How so? My siblings all have kids and they have no time for anything but their kids, they barely have the energy to keep up with the kids.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I don't think this has been stressed. Really with either dog the expert breeding is essential. Go with the best breeder you can find and be willing to spend the money for the dog and for a year of training. A good breeder will be able to guide you well. No crap shoot is worth it in these circumstances. I agree that getting a puppy and having an infant, let alone 3 kids, can be very difficult. Puppies of both these breeds will need a lot of attention from the adults in the house so you don't get bad behaviors. You could look for a bomb proof adult dog.

Adult shepherds do shed a lot, but so do most other breeds. Goldens shed too.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> Personally I don't think dogs are ideal for a family with infants. Wait until your youngest is at least 4 and can better understand the proper treatment of animals. My GSD likes kids and is good with them, as is my Great Pyr, but when you have bigger dogs they will often knock kids down on accident. My Pyr loves kids more than I've ever seen a dog love kids, she sees one and will stay with it and insists on being cuddled, but she's also about 30 inches tall and 110 lbs, so any kiddos who aren't big enough to handle being bumped by her are just going to end up on the ground. She also is also less hyper than GSDs generally are.
> 
> There are also no breeds of dog that will be 100% reliable with kids. You will have to always keep an eye on your dog and your kids when they are together, are you ready for that? Most incidents occur when the parent is not watching.


Definitely agree on vigilant supervision.

But as a counterpoint, plenty of people have dogs already in the house before they have kids. Many of those people make it work and do a great job. I've also seen families with young children (ages 2 or 3) add a GSD puppy without issue. In short, I think it can be done. I wouldn't automatically rule it out. I would also be very careful and honest with myself when trying to evaluate whether it would be likely to work for my hypothetical "three kids under age ten" situation.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> Personally I don't think dogs are ideal for a family with infants. Wait until your youngest is at least 4 and can better understand the proper treatment of animals. My GSD likes kids and is good with them, as is my Great Pyr, but when you have bigger dogs they will often knock kids down on accident. My Pyr loves kids more than I've ever seen a dog love kids, she sees one and will stay with it and insists on being cuddled, but she's also about 30 inches tall and 110 lbs, so any kiddos who aren't big enough to handle being bumped by her are just going to end up on the ground. She also is also less hyper than GSDs generally are.
> 
> There are also no breeds of dog that will be 100% reliable with kids. You will have to always keep an eye on your dog and your kids when they are together, are you ready for that? Most incidents occur when the parent is not watching.
> 
> ...


I disagree. Young kids and dogs are fine together. It all comes down to managing time and having a realistic game plan.


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## semcat66 (Feb 24, 2017)

Hi Oatmeal!! My family got our first GSD when I was about 10. I'm sure we were quite lucky as I doubt my parents went to a professional breeder, but she was a fantastic dog - I taught her to sit, stay and down myself and my parents did most of the disciplinary work. All of us played with her (I have a younger brother who was almost 7 when we got her), but just running around the yard and playing fetch - nothing too involved. She also loved the water and since my grandparents lived on a lake, we swam a lot! We never had any issues with her at all as far as her personality - she always sounded like she would kill whoever pulled up in the driveway, but once they got out of the car, she'd be more likely to lick them to death.

Fast forward a few decades - I got a GSD/Golden mix female 9 years ago from an accidental breeding of two registered dogs...oops! Free puppies!! I was lucky enough to meet both parent dogs and talk to the owners about temperament. Bonita has been an awesome dog - yes, she sheds...lol. I did some minimal puppy obedience training with her at a local PetSmart, then did the rest on my own. I was single with no kids and I work full-time. House training was the worst part for me, but still managed to get that done by the time she was about 5 months old. I did take her to a puppy daycare 2-3 days a week to help socialize her for about a year. After that, we dropped it to 1 - 2 days/week for another year and a half - some of those days they'd take a group of dogs out for hikes in nearby areas which she was a part of. I met my husband 5 years ago and she fell in love with him. We moved to a more rural area w/an acre of land - hubby's retired, so he's home all day - she's in heaven...lol!! 

We got our newest addition in mid-February - a GSD male named Porter. We "rescued" him from a ditzy in-law who got him from what I suspect was a backyard breeder, so I have absolutely no idea about the parents - what lines/temperament/health history, etc. He'll be 4 months old on Saturday. I immediately enrolled him at puppy daycare 2 days a week and we just had our 3rd private training lesson (basic house/leash manners). He's extremely smart - which is great, but also means he needs to be engaged mentally and physically. He and Bonita get along great and play together all day when he's not at daycare. Hubby gives B a break during the day by jumping in a few times to play fetch and do some simple command reinforcement (sit, down, stay). Once I get home in the evenings, we play a lot of fetch!

My vote, based on my experience, would be to get a GSD. Yes, if you can save up and get him from a reputable breeder or a GSD rescue, that would be best. That being said, although I know it's a gamble on health issues and whether it's a "show" or "working" dog, if you do end up with a dog from somewhere else, I think a lot (not all) of your pup's personality depends on socialization and training (I firmly believe GSDs need both). Great dogs don't "just" come from great breeders - there's just a lot more left unknown. I strongly recommend training - it isn't only for the dog - it also teaches the owner the correct way to encourage good behavior and how to correct the dog properly. If you are the one doing the training, it'll be up to you to show the rest of the family how to do it correctly. Most importantly - just interact and play ... A LOT!! The bonding between family members and the pup is super important and will be important as the pup gets older and needs to start training. We didn't start Porter on training until he was 14 weeks - I don't know if others recommend to start earlier, but I feel he's just now able to get through an hour (mostly...lol) session and not get burned out - and we do have a lot of fun while we're training - playing in the river, chasing pine cones, etc.

Enough of my rambling...lol. Enjoy whatever breed you finally decide on!!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm also inclined to think the dog knocking over the kid isn't a big deal. Maybe the kid will learn to be more aware of its space (obviously we aren't talking like an infant here, more like a 2 or 3 year old).

I do watch my dog closely around any kids and insist that children follow my rules if they're going to be at my house, but that's more to protect my dog from the reactions of the parents if something happens. If it were my kid, I'd watch for inappropriate behavior on either side, but the kid is probably going to get knocked over a time or two. It will probably also spontaneously fall over a time or two.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

As I said, wait until the youngest is at least 3.

An infant is not the age a 'kid' generally is, infants are very fragile and VERY time consuming.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Shedding should be the least of your concern. I am envisioning a land sharky puppy with young kids. Our youngest was 4 when we got our first GSD and he was a stable nice dog from a great breeder, so expensive (30+ years ago) and it worked out. Dogs were my passion and outlet in a busy family of young kids so that's why it worked. A GSD is not a dog to 'just have a dog' like a Golden Retriever. Also it is not easy finding a solid GR so that requires research just like a GSD does. Don't go by what a young kid wants. They don't have the skills to oversee the consequences. Assume you as parents will be the ones doing the work while involving the kids as well. You cannot pin the kids down because "you were the ones wanting the dog!"; parents are the ones wanting the dog.
I have found that the Rough Collies are much easier as a pet for young kids as they don't require as much as a GSD and their temperament is forgiving and softer. But also they require research to make sure you get one from an ethical breeder.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> As I said, wait until the youngest is at least 3.
> 
> An infant is not the age a 'kid' generally is, infants are very fragile and VERY time consuming.


Again, not trying to bicker....But in a two parent household it's entirely possible. Its no different than having twins. 
My daughter was 1 when I got my dog. I've had no issues.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> I'm also inclined to think the dog knocking over the kid isn't a big deal. Maybe the kid will learn to be more aware of its space (obviously we aren't talking like an infant here, more like a 2 or 3 year old).
> 
> I do watch my dog closely around any kids and insist that children follow my rules if they're going to be at my house, but that's more to protect my dog from the reactions of the parents if something happens. If it were my kid, I'd watch for inappropriate behavior on either side, but the kid is probably going to get knocked over a time or two. It will probably also spontaneously fall over a time or two.


I agree with you the child needs to be aware of space, but a dog also needs to learn to be aware of its own space also. Both need to be trained/taught. 
This is part of the reason I divided a lot with my daughter and my dog. I utilized baby gates and worked on not allowing excitement from either of them. I'm not huge on toddlers giving dogs treats. My dog does not expect goodies from her. 
It really comes down to of you are willing to balance and put the effort in. Then a gsd and kids of any age will work.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> Again, not trying to bicker....But in a two parent household it's entirely possible. Its no different than having twins.
> My daughter was 1 when I got my dog. I've had no issues.


I'm giving my advice based off of seeing the downside of this situation over and over. When something does happen parents often become distraught, it's rare to find parents willing to work with a dog that has nipped bitten their child, those that don't either dump them in shelters or more likely shoot them. I've seen the downside, and the child is always priority. Do you know how hard it is to adopt out a dog that was abandoned for biting a kid? 

Kids are also often hard on animals, there's many adults I know who confessed to having treated their family pets horribly in private as a child. 

There's so many risks that parents need to be aware of before going into this, there's no reason to hush the risks because you didn't experience them.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> I'm giving my advice based off of seeing the downside of this situation over and over. When something does happen parents often become distraught, it's rare to find parents willing to work with a dog that has nipped bitten their child, those that don't either dump them in shelters or more likely shoot them. I've seen the downside, and the child is always priority. Do you know how hard it is to adopt out a dog that was abandoned for biting a kid?
> 
> Kids are also often hard on animals, there's many adults I know who confessed to having treated their family pets horribly in private as a child.
> 
> There's so many risks that parents need to be aware of before going into this, there's no reason to hush the risks because you didn't experience them.


I'm not hushing any risks. As an actual parent and not someone who sees from the outside, I'm giving advice and explaining that it's entirely possible. 
Two people can make this work if they are willing to. Even single parents can. You have to be in the situation to understand what it entails.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> I'm not hushing any risks. As an actual parent and not someone who sees from the outside, I'm giving advice and explaining that it's entirely possible.
> Two people can make this work if they are willing to. Even single parents can. You have to be in the situation to understand what it entails.


Thank you for sharing your ACTUAL experience on this very important topic.

I'm not a parent so I don't have much advice for the OP. I just wanted to share my appreciation for you sharing your experience.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Dracovich said:


> I'm giving my advice based off of seeing the downside of this situation over and over. When something does happen parents often become distraught, it's rare to find parents willing to work with a dog that has nipped bitten their child, those that don't either dump them in shelters or more likely shoot them. I've seen the downside, and the child is always priority. Do you know how hard it is to adopt out a dog that was abandoned for biting a kid?
> 
> Kids are also often hard on animals, there's many adults I know who confessed to having treated their family pets horribly in private as a child.
> 
> There's so many risks that parents need to be aware of before going into this, there's no reason to hush the risks because you didn't experience them.


It's not only the dog needs training. You also have to be firm and consistent with the kids or else the dog has to pay the price. Cl often states: our kids are too rough so the puppy has to go. Train your kids too. The crate is a no no for kids, with the dog in it or not. No teasing the dog through the crate. Feed the dog in a separate area. Dog in crate during meals, kids at the table whenever food is involved. realize that these dogs need a lot of training and exercise. Do you have the time for that? It is a romantic idea, kids and dogs, but it doesn't come easy if you want to be successful. Stick around on this forum, especially when you get a pup/adult GSD. Talk to breeders and get a feel for their intentions and knowledge. Tell them what you are looking for. Keep us posted.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> I'm giving my advice based off of seeing the downside of this situation over and over. When something does happen parents often become distraught, it's rare to find parents willing to work with a dog that has nipped bitten their child, those that don't either dump them in shelters or more likely shoot them. I've seen the downside, and the child is always priority. Do you know how hard it is to adopt out a dog that was abandoned for biting a kid?
> 
> Kids are also often hard on animals, there's many adults I know who confessed to having treated their family pets horribly in private as a child.
> 
> There's so many risks that parents need to be aware of before going into this, there's no reason to hush the risks because you didn't experience them.


You've seen and experienced an impressive amount in your life.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

cloudpump said:


> I agree with you the child needs to be aware of space, but a dog also needs to learn to be aware of its own space also. Both need to be trained/taught.
> This is part of the reason I divided a lot with my daughter and my dog. I utilized baby gates and worked on not allowing excitement from either of them. I'm not huge on toddlers giving dogs treats. My dog does not expect goodies from her.
> It really comes down to of you are willing to balance and put the effort in. Then a gsd and kids of any age will work.


Very true. Kids at my house are more of a temporary and grudging "you're here because my husband likes your parent" situation. I don't bother to do anything but police. If it were my own kid, I'd be much, much more about teaching and protecting both versus just trying to protect my dog.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Hi Oatmeal, welcome 

You know your 8 year old son better than any of us. If he's a hard worker who will be a real partner in the raising of this dog, it's possible that this could be a great fit. My dog was my best friend for big chunks of my childhood. Heck, she attended my high school graduation and went to my wedding reception. Can't imagine my childhood without her.

8 years is old enough to help vacuum (the dog hair), brush the dog, learn to help train and handle the dog, clean up the yard. On the other hand, if you think it'd be a constant battle, maybe it would add more stress than fun. 

There are some handlers in some dog sports who are VERY enthusiastic about getting "juniors" / "junior handlers" involved. It might be worth reaching out to your local dog clubs (breed specific or otherwise) to see if you can take your oldest son (or perhaps eldest two sons) to an event, to further gauge their interest and comfort levels. Even if you just end up spectating, it will give you a bit more first-hand info to determine if this is the right breed for you.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

WIBackpacker said:


> Hi Oatmeal, welcome
> 
> You know your 8 year old son better than any of us. If he's a hard worker who will be a real partner in the raising of this dog, it's possible that this could be a great fit. My dog was my best friend for big chunks of my childhood. Heck, she attended my high school graduation and went to my wedding reception. Can't imagine my childhood without her.
> 
> ...


EXCELLENT advice. I second this.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I haven't had any problems with my 1.5-year-old and the GSDs. I don't have a lot of free time, but I carve out time for the dogs because they are important to me. Some dog and kid events can be combined. For instance, I just got back from a walk on the local greenway with Asher and the toddler. 

My son adores our dogs (and animals in general), and the GSDs are very good with him. Occasionally they will brush against him and bump him over, but not in a forceful or out-of-control way, and it hasn't been a big deal for us. I grew up with dogs and many of my happiest childhood memories involve animals in some way. Having dogs and a young family is do-able for some people. 

I don't know enough about the OP to advise her either way. It seems like lots of owners (possibly inexperienced) come on this site with adolescent GSDs who have problems with unresolved play-biting, lunging on the leash, jumping, and dog-aggression. Having a dog with those issues and a young family would be complicated, and possibly a disaster. That is why training (and acquiring the dog from a good breeder or rescue) is so important. 

As I've said, having dogs and a young family has worked out well for us. But training dogs is a hobby of mine and something I genuinely enjoy. It is certainly a lot of work at times. If the OP and her husband decide that training sounds like more of a chore than a fun activity than another breed might be a better choice for them. 

OP good luck in your puppy search! And congratulation on your new house. Please keep us updated on what you decide to do.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> Thank you for sharing your ACTUAL experience on this very important topic.
> 
> I'm not a parent so I don't have much advice for the OP. I just wanted to share my appreciation for you sharing your experience.


I was bitten by a dog when I was a child, still have scars across my face and mouth. Thanks for your assumption though and this repeated comment to everyone who disagrees with me. I will continue to try to help find shelter dogs homes because parents dumped them like trash.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

voodoolamb said:


> Thank you for sharing your ACTUAL experience on this very important topic.
> 
> I'm not a parent so I don't have much advice for the OP. I just wanted to share my appreciation for you sharing your experience.


I tend to agree - someone who has actually dealt with the question in real life is well equipped to share valid perspective.

I can talk about how I protect my dog from small visitors, or how I keep my cats safe, but posters who actually had a dog and small kids can offer better firsthand experience.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

We've raised Tessa (5) and often cared for our granddaughter(5) together, our granddaughter was 3.5 when Della came home to live. Both dogs were 8 weeks old when they arrived here. We monitored at all times, when they were together, and they've truly become friends and buddies. It's difficult to take a picture of anyone of them without getting a picture of another one. We always had rules, and used timeout for all three of them depending on who needed to straighten out. For us, it worked but I did visit our breeder first and was impressed with the temperament of the dogs she raised. And on the other hand, I raised my 3 girls with black labs and they were wonderful. Perhaps with your son's outbursts a well bred Lab would be a great option, they tend to be calmer and more accepting. Ours were active, played fetch, did tricks, and were great with anyone that came to our house. Well bred is probably key to whatever dog or puppy you decide to get. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I had a GSD puppy with small children but they were not babies. 5 and 8 are old enough if you have time for training and socializing and exercising the dog. You must be very careful with a toddler and a dog. Our breeder at the time would not sell a dog to anyone with small children, so I took mine to the kennel along with their friends. After meeting them the breeder sold to us, but we didn't get the high drive 8 week old male we wanted. We got a slightly older female who was partially trained and socialized, 3 months. She had high prey drive but not the intensity of a WL dog. I suggest if you decide to get one to message Cloudpump, and ask for information on how he made it work with a one year old. He did everything right.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

oatmeal said:


> *meeting the dog's energy needs -- we live in Florida and tend to stay inside (in the a/c) from...April or May to November, haha. I realize that will have to change, but becoming more active would be a positive change anyway I think. One thing that kind of crushed me is we visited our home site last week and I only now (after seeing the foundation poured) realized just how small our yard will be. It's a new house in one of these new developments with tiny yards. There's room for a swing set for the kids and maybe some room to throw a ball for a dog, but not much room for running*.]
> 
> Although I don't want to try it, I believe lots of people manage to keep GSDs in apartments and houses with small yards. I lived in an apartment for many years, but I waited until we had a house in the country and a few acres before I got my GSDs (I had had shepherds in the past so I knew what to expect). I am moderately active (love to go on walks and hike in the woods), but it's nice to have a fenced acre to turn the dogs loose when it is not feasible to go on a trip. The Tennessee summers are very hot and humid as well. We do a lot of our exercise in the morning or the evening after the sun goes down.
> 
> ...


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

sebrench said:


> Have you considered a greyhound? They are large, calm, athletic dogs that surprisingly don't need a lot of exercise. My parents (who are in their 70s and 80s) have one that they rescued from the tracks. My parents aren't the type to spend a lot of money or time training or exercising dogs, but they are very doting, and the greyhound has done well with them. He only needs about a daily 20 minute walk to be happy. He is a counter surfer though and had a bit of separation anxiety when they first got him (he didn't like his crate).


Greyhounds like their peace and quiet and personally I would not put them with young and active kids.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

I think the land shark stage, whilst short-lived, will be extremely difficult with a toddler! My 9 yr old son really struggled through this as it seemed the puppy would also bite the smallest one the most. I would maybe look for an adult dog that is good with kids rather than a puppy.

I also have to say that, I'm assuming you'll be the one at home with the dog most of the time... as the person who is with the dog, doesn't have dog experience I wouldn't think that a GSD is a good dog to start with, I think an easier dog would be better for someone with no experience. GSDs need a firm leader, and if you don't know what you're doing its only going to end in trouble for the dog.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

KaiserAus said:


> I think the land shark stage, whilst short-lived, will be extremely difficult with a toddler! My 9 yr old son really struggled through this as it seemed the puppy would also bite the smallest one the most. I would maybe look for an adult dog that is good with kids rather than a puppy.
> 
> I also have to say that, I'm assuming you'll be the one at home with the dog most of the time... as the person who is with the dog, doesn't have dog experience I wouldn't think that a GSD is a good dog to start with, I think an easier dog would be better for someone with no experience. GSDs need a firm leader, and if you don't know what you're doing its only going to end in trouble for the dog.


Or setting themselves up for success would be highly recommended. Finding an experienced trainer, a good breeder, and the right puppy for the family. 
Gsd puppies are not horror stories. With proper management it's possible to enjoy them. I didn't have an issue with the Landshark phase and my daughter. Utilizing a leash, proper exercise, and not getting the puppy amped up helped immensely. My daughter was off limits.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

I am not so much concerned for the toddler and the dog but more the fact that the main care provider doesn't have any dog experience - it is a situation that needs to be handled well, with a lot of rules for both the little ones and a consistent strong leader. If the OP is able to provide this then it will work out just fine.

On a side note - my 9yr old son and 10yr old daughter are not strong enough to walk our 5 month GSD any more. I would, of course, never let them walk him on their own, I am always with them. But when he was younger they could hold the lead, now if he sees another dog he pulls too much, they can't hold him, he drags them along behind him, so they no longer have the joy of walking the dog. We are working on not pulling, and he is currently young and impulsive, but I don't think I will ever be able to let them hold his lead again, he is only going to get stronger and it will only take one incident and they could all get badly hurt.


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## oatmeal (Apr 11, 2017)

Thanks so much for the replies. All of these posts have given me a lot to think about. As I said, I love the idea of a GSD over other breeds, but I recognize the need to be realistic about my limitations. On the one hand, we do have a very high energy household at the moment, lol, but that also translates to myself and my husband feeling tapped out already a lot of the time. Case in point, I’ve spent the last couple of days dealing with my sick toddler, which included last night an ambulance ride to the hospital after he had a seizure. There is literally always something. And getting a dog at this time in our lives was not my idea, and something I would not have considered had my husband not lobbied for it so hard. I was actually very against the idea at first. And I wouldn’t choose randomly to add a dog to the mix if it were just my husband, me, and a toddler. But we both feel my oldest son is ripe, at this moment, for falling in love with a dog. The more we’ve talked about the idea, as I said earlier, I warmed to it and am now excited about it.

In our favor I think (as regards raising a puppy at least) is that we are all home all of the time. I homeschool the kids and my husband works from home. 

I think at this point I am pretty set on either a GSD or Golden Retriever puppy. So my main question is, is one likely to be significantly easier than the other? For instance, KaiserAus, you mentioned that your children can’t walk your GSD. Would this also be true of a GR? I think my son would be pretty bummed not to be able to walk the dog, at least some of the time. And would the land shark phase be as much of an issue with a GR? Any thoughts are appreciated…I want to feel good that we can do justice to any dog we bring into our home (while also realizing I am ridiculously overthinking this whole thing).


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## TayciBear (Mar 26, 2017)

WateryTart said:


> I'm also inclined to think the dog knocking over the kid isn't a big deal. Maybe the kid will learn to be more aware of its space (obviously we aren't talking like an infant here, more like a 2 or 3 year old).
> 
> I do watch my dog closely around any kids and insist that children follow my rules if they're going to be at my house, but that's more to protect my dog from the reactions of the parents if something happens. If it were my kid, I'd watch for inappropriate behavior on either side, but the kid is probably going to get knocked over a time or two. It will probably also spontaneously fall over a time or two.



My 10 year old Lab is older than all my kids and they've learned very quickly to shield themselves from his tail. Kids aren't fragile.

OP. My boys are all the same age as yours. I have had Labs my whole life (great family dogs if you're interested lol) and a GSD when I was 11 so I'm not an expert on that breed. We just got Clementine and yes she bites the 18 month old. We have to be on her constantly especially when they're playing, but she's learning quickly. I also have to stay on my kids to make sure that they don't bother he when she's sleeping or getting in her face. They're so used to Patrick that they don't understand she's a baby and they can't do the same things with him as they do her.

One issue you may think about is separation anxiety. GSDs (from what I've seen) can get separation anxiety easily and they will tear up your yard or whatever when you're gone. We don't crate, but you may want to consider it.

As with shedding they do shed a lot, but so do Labs so I'm used to to. I can't imagine the hair a Golden produces.


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## TayciBear (Mar 26, 2017)

oatmeal said:


> Thanks so much for the replies. All of these posts have given me a lot to think about. As I said, I love the idea of a GSD over other breeds, but I recognize the need to be realistic about my limitations. On the one hand, we do have a very high energy household at the moment, lol, but that also translates to myself and my husband feeling tapped out already a lot of the time. Case in point, I’ve spent the last couple of days dealing with my sick toddler, which included last night an ambulance ride to the hospital after he had a seizure. There is literally always something. And getting a dog at this time in our lives was not my idea, and something I would not have considered had my husband not lobbied for it so hard. I was actually very against the idea at first. And I wouldn’t choose randomly to add a dog to the mix if it were just my husband, me, and a toddler. But we both feel my oldest son is ripe, at this moment, for falling in love with a dog. The more we’ve talked about the idea, as I said earlier, I warmed to it and am now excited about it.
> 
> In our favor I think (as regards raising a puppy at least) is that we are all home all of the time. I homeschool the kids and my husband works from home.
> 
> I think at this point I am pretty set on either a GSD or Golden Retriever puppy. So my main question is, is one likely to be significantly easier than the other? For instance, KaiserAus, you mentioned that your children can’t walk your GSD. Would this also be true of a GR? I think my son would be pretty bummed not to be able to walk the dog, at least some of the time. And would the land shark phase be as much of an issue with a GR? Any thoughts are appreciated…I want to feel good that we can do justice to any dog we bring into our home (while also realizing I am ridiculously overthinking this whole thing).


(Sorry about double posting and my apparent pestering about Labs).

Have you thought about a Lab? There's a reason they're the most popular dog in America and the UK. I don't know much about Goldens at all and a Lab would shed less.

Now with Retrievers, they are bred to have soft mouths so they don't damage prey. They don't typically have the biting phases that GSDs do. I'm not sure about Goldens, but Labs do not mature until they are 3 years old (I assume Goldens are the same) so expect high energy like crazy high energy. My 10 year old with arthritis still jumps around like hes 2. My lab however lived in an apartment with limited space for the first couple years of his life and he did really great. They're a conundrum. When people say GSDs need ton of activity I can't imagine they are more high energy than a Retriever.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I would never recommend a 8 yo walk a dog without a parent in the direct immediate vicinity. Either a Golden or a GSD will very very very easily pull away from your child. He will physically be unable to hold on to them, if they decide to pull.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

With kids walking dogs there's always the possibility of a not so friendly loose dog encounter. My daughter is working with our 6 year old female GSD in advanced rally. The dog is a great match for her, stable temperament, very calm, and minds her well, just the same they won't be walking the neighborhood without myself or wife.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

oatmeal said:


> I think at this point I am pretty set on either a GSD or Golden Retriever puppy.


Welllll typically ... I just tend to stay clear of "Is a GSD the right dog for me" threads ... as based on my experiance ... I just don't recommend GSD's to anyone I know. But to compare a GSD and a Golden ... LOL, that's like comparing a Volkswagen to a Porsche. Both ... have four wheels, an engine and a steering wheel ... but they are very different experiences! By and large ... Seeing eyes dogs of America ... use's very few "GSD's" they mostly use Labs and Goldens. I would ask ... now why is that?? 

A "Dogo Argentino"a "Boxer"(yeah I know ugly and stupid) or a "WL GSD" and your in at least the same Ball Park. As others have said see some dogs, ... whatever it takes ... you need to get out there and see some "GSD's" and if you decide that a "GSD" is indeed the right dog for you ... then temperament is key! But if your expectations are for a "GSD" to be anything like a "Golden???" I'd say ... good luck with that.  




oatmeal said:


> So my main question is, is one likely to be significantly easier than the other? For instance, KaiserAus, you mentioned that your children can’t walk your GSD. Would this also be true of a GR?


 In as much as I do this ... I will say that a properly trained dog "should be able to be walked by anyone in that dog's household?? The dog should not pull or be lead astride by distractions and if the child says "Stay" that is what the dog should do! Most likely ... a pretty high standard ... but it can be done.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Welllll typically ... I just tend to stay clear of "Is a GSD the right dog for me" threads ... as based on my experiance ... I just don't recommend GSD's to anyone I know. But to compare a GSD and a Golden ... LOL, that's like comparing a Volkswagen to a Porsche. Both ... have four wheels, an engine and a steering wheel ... but they are very different experiences! By and large ... Seeing eyes dogs of America ... use's very few "GSD's" they mostly use Labs and Goldens. I would ask ... now why is that??
> 
> A "Dogo Argentino"a "Boxer"(yeah I know ugly and stupid) or a "WL GSD" and your in at least the same Ball Park. As others have said see some dogs, ... whatever it takes ... you need to get out there and see some "GSD's" and if you decide that a "GSD" is indeed the right dog for you ... then temperament is key! But if your expectations are for a "GSD" to be anything like a "Golden???" I'd say ... good luck with that.
> 
> ...


Feel like you don't really like gsds.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

You know I see this a lot on here. People recommend a golden retriever or a lab instead of what someone wants. But you're going to live with these things 10+ years. Why get something you don't want? Don't tell someone that before they're ready to drive a corvette they have to get a moped first. Everyone here was or will be a first time gsd owner at some point. 

There's some important lessons to be learned for the majority of dogs. Personal spaces and all that good stuff but for the most part they aren't these ticking time bombs that everyone makes them seem to be. I've never had a dog that you had to have your kids walk on eggshells because a wrong step or pet is going to get the kid bitten. Thats the wrong kind of dog to own. Most of the dogs I've ever owned have gotten hugs and tails pulled and stepped on paws etc and guess how many have bitten or growled at anyone? Zero. And I bet that 95% of the gsd owners on here feel the same way. 

In fact the only dog I've ever seen bite a kid was a golden retriever. It was my aunts dog. Big fat lazy ole girl. And one day for no reason she strolled up to her grandkid and just reached out and snapped onto its face. No warning sings or anything. And that dog didn't stay around and there was no big crybaby post on a forum somewhere. Enough has to be enough at some point. 

So if you believe that the gsd is right for you and can provide it the type of lifestyle that's good for both of you then why the **** not? There's going to be times you need help and you can come here and ask. The only thing I'd suggest is that you really set yourself up for success. Buy the best puppy you can from the best breeder you can.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Chip18 said:


> Welllll typically ... I just tend to stay clear of "Is a GSD the right dog for me" threads ... as based on my experiance ... I just don't recommend GSD's to anyone I know. But to compare a GSD and a Golden ... LOL, that's like comparing a Volkswagen to a Porsche. Both ... have four wheels, an engine and a steering wheel ... but they are very different experiences! By and large ... Seeing eyes dogs of America ... use's very few "GSD's" they mostly use Labs and Goldens. I would ask ... now why is that??
> 
> A "Dogo Argentino"a "Boxer"(yeah I know ugly and stupid) or a "WL GSD" and your in at least the same Ball Park. As others have said see some dogs, ... whatever it takes ... you need to get out there and see some "GSD's" and if you decide that a "GSD" is indeed the right dog for you ... then temperament is key! But if your expectations are for a "GSD" to be anything like a "Golden???" I'd say ... good luck with that.
> 
> ...


Dogo, Boxers and GSDs are not in the same ballpark. If they represent the breed standard, Dogos can become very aggressive. My neoghbor had one from a puppy until about age two. The dog disappeared without an explanation from the owners. It was just gone one day. The Boxers I know have ranged from mild tempered and hyper to calmer and extremely aggressive. I don't see anything similar to a German Shepherd in the ones I know.

Why would you not recommend a GSD? That seems odd considering how much you post about German 
Shepherds.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> Dogo, Boxers and GSDs are not in the same ballpark. If they represent the breed standard, Dogos can become very aggressive. My neoghbor had one from a puppy until about age two. The dog disappeared without an explanation from the owners. It was just gone one day. The Boxers I know have ranged from mild tempered and hyper to calmer and extremely aggressive. I don't see anything similar to a German Shepherd in the ones I know.
> 
> Why would you not recommend a GSD? That seems odd considering how much you post about German
> Shepherds.


Dogos are a breed built for teamwork in a pack of dogs along with their hunter handlers, aggression toward dogs and humans would not represent their breed AT ALL.

None of us know this family, their time schedule or how much dedication they would have to a dog, I personally never recommend dogs to anyone I do not know.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

I think he was saying because they can be a lot to handle. A properly bred dogo is no more aggressive than any other working dog. The problem with them is the same with working bulldogs. A lot of people wanted them and back yard breeders bred anything and everything regardless of health or temperament to make some $. 
Considering the job theyre meant to do some animal aggression is necessary but the few I've had experience with weren't dog or human aggressive in the least. 

But to chips point I believe he's just saying that a gsd is inherently more difficult to live with than a golden retriever. Which I disagree with until it gets to extremes. Golden retrievers and labs can be every bit as energetic and needy as a German shepherd. I am with you tho as far as not understanding why people here would reccomend a gsd to people.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Dracovich said:


> Dogos are a breed built for teamwork in a pack of dogs along with their hunter handlers, aggression toward dogs and humans would not represent their breed AT ALL.
> 
> None of us know this family, their time schedule or how much dedication they would have to a dog, I personally never recommend dogs to anyone I do not know.


In theory, however they were bred from the Córdoba Fighting dog and are still considered dangerous enough to be banned in the U.K. I don't choose to argue with you. As far as I am concerned, I'm done with the subject. I was addressing Chip and specifically his comment.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

They were used to add gameness to the dog. Today here in the southern states they're used as catch dogs for hog hunting. And that gameness is a must have trait. One of the last things you want is for that dog to catch a tusk in the shoulder and let go because it could put you in danger. But an equally less desirable outcome is if he fights your other dogs or catches one of them instead of the hog. A well bred dogo is not human or dog aggressive.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> Dogos are a breed built for teamwork in a pack of dogs along with their hunter handlers, aggression toward dogs and humans would not represent their breed AT ALL.
> 
> None of us know this family, their time schedule or how much dedication they would have to a dog, I personally never recommend dogs to anyone I do not know.


They were also bred to be fighting dogs, capable of ferociousness in hunting and fighting. They are still used today in dog fighting in Argentina and other countries. Also being a guard dog, human aggression is part of the equation
Dogo Argentino Temperament, Personality, Behavior, Traits, and Characteristics, by Michele Welton. Copyright © 2000-2016:
With his dog-fighting ancestry, dog aggression can be a problem. The Dogo Argentino should be thoroughly socialized with other dogs from an early age. He should not be kept with another dog of the same sex.
With his strong prey drive, Argentine Dogos should not be kept with cats, either, unless raised with them.

From another site:
Adult Dogos can be aggressive with other dogs; however, the Dogo does not usually provoke the confrontation but may if he senses another dog that is unstable. The breed needs an owner who can tell the Dogo it is not his job to put another dog in his place. 

http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/700997

Clear Hierarchy

While Argentine Dogos can be gentle and loving in your home, the dominant, aggressive side of Dogo Argentinos' personalities can rear its ugly head when around other animals and people outside of your family, according to Pet Wave. 

This dog breed is hard wired to assert itself as alpha over other dogs, cats and other animals and even over people. As owner, you need to establish a clear chain of command within your home.

Dual Nature of the Dogo Argentino
Guardian Aspects of the Dogo Argentino
The Dogo is a natural guardian, and will guard it's family and what it perceives as it's home fiercely against intruders. Care needs to be taken to introduce friends or visitors to your Dogo, and they should be warned not to approach your Dogo without you present.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> Feel like you don't really like gsds.


Oh by and large ... I can't help how people feel. And despite me ... GSD's are pretty consistently in the top three most popular dogs in America. 

But the thing is ... I don't "sugar coat" breeds I luv. Clearly ... I'm a pretty much a "Boxer Luv'er " but I am also reluctant to recommend them to most people also. Different potential issues however. Boxer's are almost ... a perfect family dog ... aside from toddlers becasue as you know "Toddlers Wobble but they will fall down! Issue two ... well, you know for a lot of people ... "Boxers" can simply be a fairly "time and patience draining ... hair pulling experiance! 

We have two such situations we were are dealing with right now and thread two is titled ... "I hate my dog!" Two years of crap behavior on that one. We are working on it. Issue three life span ie health issues ... "heart break breed!" So ... while I do luv "Boxer's" I do tend to keep it real. 

If people want to say how great GSD's are as typical ... family pets ... I won't say otherwise??? But for me .... my particular experiance says while a GSD is great with family ... maybe they are not so great with drop in's??? That would be ... kids and drop in friends??? Our Bond (Rocky and I) was pretty much forged thru fire! No love lost between us! He ... sent me to the ER ... breaking up pack fights!!! But when he came to my aid unbid, when I slipped on ice while defending him from two charging stray dogs. I deterred one dog but not the other??? And I was expecting to be in an Ultimate Dog Fighting contest when I slipped on the ice while defending him, "Rocky" was still doing "Nothing" as instructed. Because, I told him "Stay" ... I got this!" But I slipped on the ice and my "GSD" decided at that point ... hmm ... "I've not seen this before" ... perhaps I need to make my presence known??? And he stepped over me to deter the remaining dog! I was stunned and yeah ... impressed! So yeah ... I'm good with GSD's! 

But to have a basis of comparison be a Golden Retriever and a GSD??? That is just as about as Apple and Oranges as you can get??? One is a working dog and the other is not, among a few differences. Had the OP ... not given that comparison ... rest assured ... I'd not be here.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Oh by and large ... I can't help how people feel. And despite me ... GSD's are pretty consistently in the top three most popular dogs in America.
> 
> But the thing is ... I don't "sugar coat" breeds I luv. Clearly ... I'm a pretty much a "Boxer Luv'er " but I am also reluctant to recommend them to most people also. Different potential issues however. Boxer's are almost ... a perfect family dog ... aside from toddlers becasue as you know "Toddlers Wobble but they will fall down! Issue two ... well, you know for a lot of people ... "Boxers" can simply be a fairly "time and patience draining ... hair pulling experiance!
> 
> ...


See this is where breed differences need to be taken into account. For someone to say not to recommend dogs is asinine. For you, if you wanted a kidney bean, someone would say get a boxer. For me, I'd want a dog that is aloof to strangers and protective by nature, someone​ would say look at a German Shepherd. 
To just not recommend a breed based upon personal experience pigeonholes that breed to just your impression. A self proclaimed bully guy. This family might want a loyal, protective breed and that is a gsd. It'd be like me telling you to not get a car because I've had better experiences with a truck.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Dogos can be used as fighting dogs in some cases but werent bred for it. They were specifically bred against dog agression but many of the traits you outline thru those articles are true of gsd as well. Do gsd not have strong prey drive? Do strangers not need to be careful around them? And let's not even get into all the animal chasing threads here. 

Chip I have to be honest I'm having a hard time making sense of your post. But it sounds like you recommend against the gsd because of rocky? I'm sorry but if you have a dog that's fighting and biting you (cuz he sent you to the er?) then that's outside the norm. A typical gsd shouldn't be fighting and biting people. You can get that type of dog with almost any breed, but that's not to say that they won't make good family dogs. Seems the majority think they're a great family dog. 

To the op it seems like your only choices are to get a pug to be on the safe side or get the gsd you want but make sure you know what you're getting into.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

thegooseman90 said:


> Dogos can be used as fighting dogs in some cases but werent bred for it. They were specifically bred against dog agression but many of the traits you outline thru those articles are true of gsd as well. Do gsd not have strong prey drive? Do strangers not need to be careful around them? And let's not even get into all the animal chasing threads here.
> 
> Chip I have to be honest I'm having a hard time making sense of your post. But it sounds like you recommend against the gsd because of rocky? I'm sorry but if you have a dog that's fighting and biting you (cuz he sent you to the er?) then that's outside the norm. A typical gsd shouldn't be fighting and biting people. You can get that type of dog with almost any breed, but that's not to say that they won't make good family dogs. Seems the majority think they're a great family dog.
> 
> To the op it seems like your only choices are to get a pug to be on the safe side or get the gsd you want but make sure you know what you're getting into.


The difference is, gsd were never bred to fight to the finish. Huge difference in game bred dogos and aggressive gsd.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

cloudpump said:


> The difference is, gsd were never bred to fight to the finish. Huge difference in game bred dogs and aggressive gsd.


Considering the OP asked about GSDs vs Goldens, you did a good job getting back on subject. It is always interesting to see how people insert fighting breeds into a thread where there is no reason to do so and then we have to discuss whether they are or not, just so the OPs don't get confused.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Neither breed was ever bred to fight. The dogo was built from a fighting dog foundation but he was crossed over several different breeds and the dog aggression was specifically bred out of them. 

Gameness doesn't necessarily mean fighting to the death. It's being willing to die doing your job. In the dogos case that's hunting. In the gsd that's protecting its owner or flock or whatever. Some people have exploited that trait in the dogo and used it/bred it back to a fighting dog but the breed was not made for fighting.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

And it goes on...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> See this is where breed differences need to be taken into account. For someone to say not to recommend dogs is asinine. For you, if you wanted a kidney bean, someone would say get a boxer. For me, I'd want a dog that is aloof to strangers and protective by nature, someone​ would say look at a German Shepherd.
> To just not recommend a breed based upon personal experience pigeonholes that breed to just your impression. A self proclaimed bully guy. This family might want a loyal, protective breed and that is a gsd. It'd be like me telling you to not get a car because I've had better experiences with a truck.


LOL ... so ... I'm the bad guy becasue ... I won't recommend GSd's based on my experiance??? OK then ....* "This family might want a loyal, protective breed and that is a gsd."* That is great for you ... but that is not what they said ... or maybe I missed it??? What I saw was a "GSD and a Golden" as a basis of comparison ... and I'm just not seeing it???

If the OP cares that much ... she could look at "seeing eyes dogs of america" and see why those guys use fewer and fewer GSD and more and more Labs and Goldens. It's not just me that see a difference there.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Luvshepherd, you're right. I should just let it go. I just don't like for people to make a blanket statement that gives certain breeds a bad name. 

Anyway my opinion on the matter has been made as far as the OPs question. I vote to get the gsd they want rather than be talked into getting another breed to practice on for 10+ years first


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

thegooseman90 said:


> Neither breed was ever bred to fight. The dogo was built from a fighting dog foundation but he was crossed over several different breeds and the dog aggression was specifically bred out of them.
> 
> Gameness doesn't necessarily mean fighting to the death. It's being willing to die doing your job. In the dogos case that's hunting. In the gsd that's protecting its owner or flock or whatever. Some people have exploited that trait in the dogo and used it/bred it back to a fighting dog but the breed was not made for fighting.



In dogos, the aggression is offensive and unprovoked while attacking its hunting victim.

In the GSD, the aggression is defensive and provoked. 
Different.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

thegooseman90 said:


> Luvshepherd, you're right. I should just let it go. I just don't like for people to make a blanket statement that gives certain breeds a bad name.
> 
> Anyway my opinion on the matter has been made as far as the OPs question. I vote to get the gsd they want rather than be talked into getting another breed to practice on for 10+ years first


Oops, didn't see this. :wink2:


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> cloudpump said:
> 
> 
> > See this is where breed differences need to be taken into account. For someone to say not to recommend dogs is asinine. For you, if you wanted a kidney bean, someone would say get a boxer. For me, I'd want a dog that is aloof to strangers and protective by nature, someone​ would say look at a German Shepherd.
> ...


It wasn't really basis of comparison. She wants the gsd but the husband wanted a golden retriever. So she asked opinions here if the gsd would be a good fit for her family. It's hard to make sense of what you're saying but it seemed like you were against recommending the gsd because of your difficult experience with "rocky???"


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

thegooseman90 said:


> Luvshepherd, you're right. I should just let it go. I just don't like for people to make a blanket statement that gives certain breeds a bad name.
> 
> Anyway my opinion on the matter has been made as far as the OPs question. I vote to get the gsd they want rather than be talked into getting another breed to practice on for 10+ years first


I didn't, but I am answering you because you are new. I based my reply on months of reading after someone else told me that. I didn't believe them but the literature shows something very different from what I also thought and now I can say I was mistaken. We have been asked not to discuss certain breeds on this forum, so I am withdrawing from further comment on it in this thread. Chip knows better, but likes to throw things in for a reaction. He got one. And now we can all move on.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

We're talking about stable dogs bred to breed standard, not poorly bred dogs. Any breed not from good bloodlines can be aggressive, but catch dogs have been purposely bred to be reliable in *high stress* situations, making them ideal in multi dog homes and humans are not at risk. Fighting dogs have also been hard wired to be human friendly, otherwise their handlers in the ring would often be mauled, this greatly benefits Dogos as family dogs. Many other breeds contributed to the making of Dogos, especially LGD type breeds which work well in packs and a good sense of proper force, which makes them good with fragile livestock as well as children.

Establishing a clear chain of command is essential with any dog, so it's not really relevant to specific breeds. 

I don't know how this breed was brought to this thread, but it made me laugh out loud when reading that Dogos can become very aggressive (implication that it's toward humans and dogs). 

If you're putting your opinion out there then there's no need to be so sensitive when others also add their opinion, that's just how it goes.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> LOL ... so ... I'm the bad guy becasue ... I won't recommend GSd's based on my experiance??? OK then ....* "This family might want a loyal, protective breed and that is a gsd."* That is great for you ... but that is not what they said ... or maybe I missed it??? What I saw was a "GSD and a Golden" as a basis of comparison ... and I'm just not seeing it???
> 
> If the OP cares that much ... she could look at "seeing eyes dogs of america" and see why those guys use fewer and fewer GSD and more and more Labs and Goldens. It's not just me that see a difference there.


It also has to do with the tremendous loyalty and bond gsds grow with their owners. Its non transferable in some cases. And that is a desirable trait for service dogs.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

TBH I ESPECIALLY would not recommend any herding breed, including the GSD, around children. That is the question here, Chip answered it with his opinion based off his experience and knowledge.

It makes me cringe to think people would suggest any working breed to a family they do not know..


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Honestly it really depends on the dog and how you are with training. As little kids my younger sister and I regular oily room our GSD and Great Danes for walks by ourselves. But we live in a smaller town in Montana. The dogs were trained and that was that. 
Find a dog from a good breeder, regardless of the breed you choose. Any dig you get will have to learn bite inhibition and manners. There are hyper overactive goldens and hyper overactive GSDs. Both are pretty big shedders. As a whole goldens tend to be easier to handle dogs without a lot of work while GSDs tend to get a bit out of hand. These are just generalizations though and don't account for the fact that each dog is different. If you honestly believe you can handle a dog and give it the time it needs(more than just a simple walk) then go ahead you should be fine.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> Dogos can be used as fighting dogs in some cases but werent bred for it. They were specifically bred against dog agression but many of the traits you outline thru those articles are true of gsd as well. Do gsd not have strong prey drive? Do strangers not need to be careful around them? And let's not even get into all the animal chasing threads here.
> 
> Chip I have to be honest I'm having a hard time making sense of your post. But it sounds like you recommend against the gsd because of rocky? I'm sorry but if you have a dog that's fighting and biting you (cuz he sent you to the er?) then that's outside the norm. A typical gsd shouldn't be fighting and biting people. You can get that type of dog with almost any breed, but that's not to say that they won't make good family dogs. Seems the majority think they're a great family dog.
> 
> To the op it seems like your only choices are to get a pug to be on the safe side or get the gsd you want but make sure you know what you're getting into.


Oh by and large I get hard to follow all the time ... if it's too much effort then just put me on ignore ... no problem, 

And yeah based on my experiance with my one "GSD" I say no! But... in my defense based on my over ten years of experiance with American Bandogs APBT/Boxer mixes and Boxers and zero issues?? I figured my big furry 7 month old GSD big furry dog with a pointy face ... should be ... no big deal?? And yesssss ... trip to the ER or not ... when the chips (hmm no pun intended) were down my GSD saved me a second trip to the ER! Because on my back or not ... that dog was not going to get past me! So I'm good, if what I say as the one lone naysayer dissuades someone from getting a GSD??? Then most likely ... they ought not to be getting one anyway??? 

And for the record ... I don't really need a consult on "bully" breeds ... just saying. But I do like "pugs" ... but I don't think they are to suitable for high desert outings ... I like my dogs to have ... ground clearance.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

cloudpump said:


> It also has to do with the tremendous loyalty and bond gsds grow with their owners. Its non transferable in some cases. And that is a desirable trait for service dogs.


Which is why we have German Shepherds. I personally don't want to read about fighting breeds here. I don't want to be in a position to have to even discuss, but since people keep throwing them into threads, and then arguing that they aren't, so we can't seem to escape it. Why does it always happen late at night when the moderators are offline? 

Back to GSDs. Since this is a GSD forum it makes sense to talk about them. The OP asked about Goldens and GSDs, so to get back to the original poster, I think rather than asking on a forum to visit breeders of both and meet the parents of their puppies. Don't make a decision until you have visited several of each. Then select the breed whose parents are the closest to what you want. Golden are supposed to be easier and more even tempered, but my old daycare kicked out many for dog on dog aggression. It is not unheard of even in that breed. Before arguing, anyone who disagrees, look up rage syndrome.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> It wasn't really basis of comparison. She wants the gsd but the husband wanted a golden retriever. So she asked opinions here if the gsd would be a good fit for her family. It's hard to make sense of what you're saying but it seemed like you were against recommending the gsd because of your difficult experience with "rocky???"


Yes ... people do stuff.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> We're talking about stable dogs bred to breed standard, not poorly bred dogs. Any breed not from good bloodlines can be aggressive, but catch dogs have been purposely bred to be reliable in *high stress* situations, making them ideal in multi dog homes and humans are not at risk. Fighting dogs have also been hard wired to be human friendly, otherwise their handlers in the ring would often be mauled, this greatly benefits Dogos as family dogs. Many other breeds contributed to the making of Dogos, especially LGD type breeds which work well in packs and a good sense of proper force, which makes them good with fragile livestock as well as children.
> 
> Establishing a clear chain of command is essential with any dog, so it's not really relevant to specific breeds.
> 
> ...


I appologize for insinuating you didn't know it all. Good to know, you know more about dog fighting breeds and their lack of aggression, yet disproportionately high rate of maulings and killing. 
Unfortunately, the question asked was comparing a gsd vs a golden. A debate brewed about a gsd being a good pet. I personally disagree with chip assertion and I felt we were having a discussion on an open German Shepherd forum. 
Chip has his opinion, and I was attempting to have a conversation with him regarding his opinion in comparison to mine. It wasn't attacking, nor was it insulting. 
I will be sure to send PM's to you the next time I disagree with his opinion. 
Have a nice night. Bless your heart.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> TBH I ESPECIALLY would not recommend any herding breed, including the GSD, around children. That is the question here, Chip answered it with his opinion based off his experience and knowledge.
> 
> It makes me cringe to think people would suggest any working breed to a family they do not know..


Oh, you should learn wlgsd better. A good representation​of the line will blow your socks off. And first hand knowledge goes a long way.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> thegooseman90 said:
> 
> 
> > Dogos can be used as fighting dogs in some cases but werent bred for it. They were specifically bred against dog agression but many of the traits you outline thru those articles are true of gsd as well. Do gsd not have strong prey drive? Do strangers not need to be careful around them? And let's not even get into all the animal chasing threads here.
> ...


I don't recall saying I need to put you on ignore or giving you a consult on bully breeds. Your use of random quotes and question marks makes it hard to see what point exactly you're making. So I wanted to be clear on what you were saying. 

For the most part it seems like you're just saying your experience with one difficult dog is proof that the breed shouldn't be recommended. Which I have a hard time believing most would agree with that. I'm sure that the majority of gsd owners have had great experiences with their dogs.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> Chip knows better, but likes to throw things in for a reaction. He got one. And now we can all move on.


Sorry ... I have to politely object. I say what I mean and mean what I say. Nothing more and nothing less, I'm just a single voice in the wilderness. If I dissuade someone from getting a GSD ... then most likely ... they should have not gotten one in the first place. 

I will add that I have also seen the "Rage Syndrome" thing cropping in up in "Golden's" lately also ... they are not my cup of tea but that does kinda suck.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> I don't recall saying I need to put you on ignore or giving you a consult on bully breeds. Your use of random quotes and question marks makes it hard to see what point exactly you're making. So I wanted to be clear on what you were saying.
> 
> For the most part it seems like you're just saying your experience with one difficult dog is proof that the breed shouldn't be recommended. Which I have a hard time believing most would agree with that. I'm sure that the majority of gsd owners have had great experiences with their dogs.


Hmm ... quotations, marks and exclamations points aside ... yes ... you got it!
Others are of course free to disagree. But if someone get's it wrong ... I got there back.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> It also has to do with the tremendous loyalty and bond gsds grow with their owners. Its non transferable in some cases. And that is a desirable trait for service dogs.


No disagreement.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

But do you really believe that your one bad experience is enough to pass judgement on an entire breed?


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> I appologize for insinuating you didn't know it all. Good to know, you know more about dog fighting breeds and their lack of aggression, yet disproportionately high rate of maulings and killing.
> Unfortunately, the question asked was comparing a gsd vs a golden. A debate brewed about a gsd being a good pet. I personally disagree with chip assertion and I felt we were having a discussion on an open German Shepherd forum.
> Chip has his opinion, and I was attempting to have a conversation with him regarding his opinion in comparison to mine. It wasn't attacking, nor was it insulting.
> I will be sure to send PM's to you the next time I disagree with his opinion.
> ...


I'm familiar with different WL GSDs, tbh a pet bred GSD would be much more appropriate for this family, from the brief description they gave that has everyone jumping to the conclusion they need a German Shepherd.

I also wasn't responding to your comments toward chip, sorry to bust your bubble, I didn't even read your comments.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

thegooseman90 said:


> But do you really believe that your one bad experience is enough to pass judgement on an entire breed?


Chip loves his GSD, but he can look past it and accept the reality that dogs are dogs and they aren't going to act appropriately 100% of the time. 

The reality is everyone passes judgement on everything, judgement is just an opinion, and everyone has an opinion on everything. We all gave our judgements, OP needs to hear both sides. Of course Chip's experience is enough, even if you don't think it is.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> But do you really believe that your one bad experience is enough to pass judgement on an entire breed?


LOL ... that is a reasonable question! And for me ... with GSD's my answer is yes ... yes it is! But to be fair, I have met few Wl GSD's and the only Wl GSD ... I did meet ... was the one who attacked my GSD ... so there is that!:surprise:

But Boxer's ... I have met and worked with several and those "Boxers" have all been just as "Goofy and People friendly" as my own! Out of those ... I have seen only one Flashy Female Boxer .... that you would not want to met under uncontrolled circumstances, I was stunned!! But all the others were just typical American Line Goofy PIA's. 

I've not had the opportunity to work with any full Euro Boxers??? Wl GSD's in Boxer suits as far as I'm concerned ... but I don't know as I've had not met or worked with full Euro Boxer's??? Boxerforum folks ... don't tend to take kindly to that comparison.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Dracovich said:


> thegooseman90 said:
> 
> 
> > But do you really believe that your one bad experience is enough to pass judgement on an entire breed?
> ...


Now I don't want it to seem like I'm belittling his particular experience with his dog. In fact he might even deserve a little credit. Maybe he got too much dog and stuck it out rather than pawning him off somewhere else. And like he said the dog returned the favor in a slippery situation. But to say he had experience with one bad dog therefore all gsd are not meant for first time owners is a little overboard.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> LOL ... that is a reasonable question! And for me ... with GSD's my answer is yes ... yes it is! But to be fair, I have met few Wl GSD's and the only Wl GSD ... I did meet ... was the one who attacked my GSD ... so there is that!:surprise:
> 
> But Boxer's ... I have met and worked with several and those "Boxers" have all been just as "Goofy and People friendly" as my own! Out of those ... I have seen only one Flashy Female Boxer .... that you would not want to met under uncontrolled circumstances, I was stunned!! But all the others were just typical American Line Goofy PIA's.
> 
> I've not had the opportunity to work with any full Euro Boxers??? Wl GSD's in Boxer suits as far as I'm concerned ... but I don't know as I've had not met or worked with full Euro Boxer's??? Boxerforum folks ... don't tend to take kindly to that comparison.


Sorry Chip, but I guess any experience and opinions we have of and with WL GSDs, or GSDs in general, is going to be irrelevant  We must live in fairy land where there are no *real* GSDs LOL! Anyone who has a less popular opinion is automatically irrelevant.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> I appologize for insinuating you didn't know it all. Good to know, you know more about dog fighting breeds and their lack of aggression, yet disproportionately high rate of maulings and killing.
> Unfortunately, the question asked was comparing a gsd vs a golden. A debate brewed about a gsd being a good pet. I personally disagree with chip assertion and I felt we were having a discussion on an open German Shepherd forum.
> Chip has his opinion, and I was attempting to have a conversation with him regarding his opinion in comparison to mine. It wasn't attacking, nor was it insulting.
> I will be sure to send PM's to you the next time I disagree with his opinion.
> Have a nice night. Bless your heart.


 Oh I'm good guys and as I say despite me ... apparently GSD's are number two in most popular dog in Americans! 

https://mom.me/pets/18028-10-most-popular-dog-breeds-america/item/german-shepherd-dog/

And I'll add at number seven ... they show a "White Boxer!!!" We finally made the big time!


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Ok guys, enough with the bickering. None of this is helpful to the OP.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

thegooseman90 said:


> Now I don't want it to seem like I'm belittling his particular experience with his dog. In fact he might even deserve a little credit. Maybe he got too much dog and stuck it out rather than pawning him off somewhere else. And like he said the dog returned the favor in a slippery situation. But to say he had experience with one bad dog therefore all gsd are not meant for first time owners is a little overboard.


Think about it this way, most everyone on here believe that you should only purchase a GSD from a reputable breeder who breeds as closely to breed standard as possible, except a breed standard GSD is going to be relatively high maintenance with the combination of their drive, need for rigorous physical exercise and being highly intelligent. By standard a GSD is a working dog, how is a first time owner in a home with multiple children supposed to handle that?

Still, to suggest any breed to strangers with kids just makes me cringe.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

OP needs to know the different aspects of the breed and these different views gives them something to think about.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

I can see the point you're trying to make too. But the way I see it is if it was maybe a single parent and 3 kids yea it would be pretty difficult to meet the dogs demands. But that doesn't sound like their situation. 

To your other point had they of come here and said what kinda dog should I get under these circumstances few ppl would've recommended the gsd. But since they said "I'm in love with the gsd can it be a good family dog or should we get the golden retriever?" it seemed fair to recommend the gsd.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

GypsyGhost said:


> Ok guys, enough with the bickering. None of this is helpful to the OP.


Minus the debate about dogos most of this should be helpful to the op. Lots of differing opinions with some pros and cons that you see as bickering


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> Minus the debate about dogos most of this should be helpful to the op. Lots of differing opinions with some pros and cons that you see as bickering


Sigh ... one lone voice of dissention and the bickering clause gets invoked??? Standards are so low these days.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

In everyone here's defense I thought the whole thing remained pretty civil. It's ok to have different opinions and I think those opinions would be helpful to op


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> Now I don't want it to seem like I'm belittling his particular experience with his dog. In fact he might even deserve a little credit. Maybe he got too much dog and stuck it out rather than pawning him off somewhere else. And like he said the dog returned the favor in a slippery situation. But to say he had experience with one bad dog therefore all gsd are not meant for first time owners is a little overboard.


LOL ... more dog than expected?? Yes, absolutely but to much dog for me??? Only if he were rehomed or PTS ... and that's not gonna happen on my watch! As for my "irrational" non recommendation ... people are not always rational, I'm good with that. As I am want to say ... there is always that guy.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

See, when you quote things it makes it seem like I said them. So you quote irrational but I never called you irrational. Idk if you had too much dog or not so all I said was MAYBE it. Otherwise I'm not sure why rocky was attacking you - or has attacked you. Whatever the case was. I'm just speculating on what it was that made you decide the breed isn't good for others. 

Maybe it would be helpful to the op if you gave us some history on what rocky has done for you to conclude gsd are not good for first time owners.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> See, when you quote things it makes it seem like I said them. So you quote irrational but I never called you irrational. Idk if you had too much dog or not so all I said was MAYBE it. Otherwise I'm not sure why rocky was attacking you - or has attacked you. Whatever the case was. I'm just speculating on what it was that made you decide the breed isn't good for others.
> 
> Maybe it would be helpful to the op if you gave us some history on what rocky has done for you to conclude gsd are not good for first time owners.


Fair enough ... done. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/399905-what-would-my-dog-do.html


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Read it and disagree with you even more now. That's like a golden sparkling example of a good dog. This whole time you've made it seem like he's an aggressive dangerous dog but that story says otherwise. That was your story to dissuade people from wanting a gsd?


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> TBH I ESPECIALLY would not recommend any herding breed, including the GSD, around children. That is the question here, Chip answered it with his opinion based off his experience and knowledge.
> 
> It makes me cringe to think people would suggest any working breed to a family they do not know..


That conclusion seems a bit conceptually impoverished, TBH.

Plenty of parents of young children are on this forum. They have had dogs with young children, and they manage it. I don't know why responsible, careful breeders would consent to sell puppies to families with young children if your opinion was in fact accurate. I also don't know why those puppies and children would thrive if your opinion was accurate.

At best, it's some rather extreme caution, but truthfully, it just seems silly.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

It truly is personal preference. My choice when the kids were little was a smaller dog who needed less exercise when they were older is when we got our Gsd pup. I just did not have the attention span and energy -I know I would need. If someone has young kids and a Gsd pup it will be work but with them knowing that and have the want to make it work it sure can. I admit a Gsd pup can be a ton of work Max was anyway and some days I had actually a break from him but it was all so worth it. Some Gsd pups are mouthier then others with little kids running around it and big pups bounding about will be tough but still can work.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

oatmeal said:


> Thanks so much for the replies. All of these posts have given me a lot to think about. As I said, I love the idea of a GSD over other breeds, but I recognize the need to be realistic about my limitations. On the one hand, we do have a very high energy household at the moment, lol, but that also translates to myself and my husband feeling tapped out already a lot of the time. Case in point, I’ve spent the last couple of days dealing with my sick toddler, which included last night an ambulance ride to the hospital after he had a seizure. There is literally always something. And getting a dog at this time in our lives was not my idea, and something I would not have considered had my husband not lobbied for it so hard. I was actually very against the idea at first. And I wouldn’t choose randomly to add a dog to the mix if it were just my husband, me, and a toddler. But we both feel my oldest son is ripe, at this moment, for falling in love with a dog. The more we’ve talked about the idea, as I said earlier, I warmed to it and am now excited about it.
> 
> In our favor I think (as regards raising a puppy at least) is that we are all home all of the time. I homeschool the kids and my husband works from home.
> 
> I think at this point I am pretty set on either a GSD or Golden Retriever puppy. So my main question is, is one likely to be significantly easier than the other? For instance, KaiserAus, you mentioned that your children can’t walk your GSD. Would this also be true of a GR? I think my son would be pretty bummed not to be able to walk the dog, at least some of the time. And would the land shark phase be as much of an issue with a GR? Any thoughts are appreciated…*I want to feel good that we can do justice to any dog we bring into our home (while also realizing I am ridiculously overthinking this whole thing).*


You're absolutely doing the right thing - researching and asking questions. Thanks for hanging in there, there are obviously many opinions.

I _*strongly *_encourage you to spend time around a variety of German Shepherds and a variety of Golden Retrievers. You will probably find yourself gravitating toward one or the other. A lot of traits sound good in theory, but the reality is different for everyone. If you are comfortable sharing your general geographic area, there may be someone here who can point you toward a local training group or other opportunity to meet dogs.

The level of "land shark" varies. Objectively: German Shepherds are bred for, and tested in, venues that place emphasis on specific aspects of appropriate grip (bite). Golden Retrievers are not bred for, or tested in, the same venues.

I don't agree with blanket statements - it's a personal choice.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> OP needs to know the different aspects of the breed and these different views gives them something to think about.


Well, it's just lucky you're here to help. I'm glad you know about being respectful to people who volunteer their time to help us enjoy this place, on top of everything else.


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## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

I commend the OP for inquiring and putting serious thought into this. There is no generally applicable answer as to whether a GSD is right for you. It really depends on you, your family, and your circumstances. 

My circumstances: My kids, who are now 10 and 14, don’t know life without GSDs. Both were greeted at the door by a GSD the day they came home from the hospital as newborns. That dog passed when my youngest was 2. We brought home an 8 week old female pup soon thereafter. At the time, we also had an elderly cat who was no longer physically capable of "establishing ground rules" with a pup. A few years later we brought in an 8 week old male pup. He is now closing in on 5 years old. Unfortunately, we recently lost the female (much too young - lymphoma). I should mention that these are working line dogs. 

While there were some bumps and hiccups along the way, all has gone well. In my experiences, the keys in raising GSD puppies with kids are supervision, management, and education (particularly of the kids) combined with reasonable expectations, rules, and consequences for both kids and dogs. I should also add that (1) my wife and I had prior experience with GSDs and other dogs prior to having kids; (2) we were 100% on the same page; and (3) we were 100% committed to ensuring things worked. 

Conversely, I've known families who found what we would consider to be a low drive, low energy showline to be too much. Different families, different experience, different priorities/lifestyle, different expectations, etc. 

I have owned labs and other dogs in addition to GSDs. While I think GSDs are a great breed and are my breed of choice, I don’t think they are right for everyone. The brains, devotion, work ethic, protective instinct, and appropriate aggression that are hallmarks of a good GSD tend to require a little more of the owner. Moreover, the consequences of not providing appropriate guidance, socialization, and training to a GSD can be different than with a lab or golden. I also think it is easier to get in over one’s head with a GSD than a retriever. However, with a little education, common sense, and commitment, they can make a great addition to the family. Nothing like a good GSD! 

To the OP, if you want a GSD, find a good breeder and be absolutely honest about your experience, circumstances, and expectations, and take it from there. Good luck.


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## NerdicEclipse (Feb 20, 2017)

Good on you for asking and thinking first OP. Like everyone else has said there's no blanket answer for everyone. Depending on breeding and many other variables they seem to range from fairly calm and tame to wild little landsharks that will test your sanity. Minka was our first GSD but not our first dog, far from it, not even our first large breed. Just off what she has been like so far... I'd definitely get another. In fact, I'll never again be without a GSD. However, I would never recommend it for a first time dog owner unless they are prepared for a lot of different things. 

You definitely need patience. A lot of time to devote to it. Plenty of time for exercise, plenty of space on your property or nearby (not just leashed structured walks, also a place where she can really run and do puppy things freely without risk of harming herself, another dog, kids, etc.). And more patience. Also be prepared for a lot of incidentals. Food is expensive, potential health issues that they're prone to can be expensive, so on and so forth. 

Also make sure you have plenty of time to watch it. Minka does fine now if we are supervising her. She has her leash on 90% of the time in the house because now and then she still gets a little zoomy and rough, still tries to get into things. It's gotten a lot better though. They're not a dog that you can leave in the crate for great lengths of time because you have other things to do. They like to be your little shadow, they need attention and mental/physical exercise. She's literally unbearable if we miss a walk or play session. Too much pent up energy in those cases. She's also difficult if we don't do several mental workout games as well. Physical alone doesn't do it. That's what really sets her apart from all dogs I've owned in the past. She's the most curious. If you're not really on top of things and paying attention she'll work you like crazy. They are super smart. Other dogs have always just needed physical play time. She's not into that as much. She really likes things that work her mind. She's not a "play fetch" kind of dog so far.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

We looked into Goldens and found that GSDs fit our lifestyle and needs better. When you find the right dog for your abilities and energy level, you learn how to make it work. They need a lot of time, but the results are worth it. We finally decided against Goldens because we wanted a more active participant with the children. Our friends had two. They were sweet dogs but my children bonded with the German Shepherds we looked at in ways I never saw happening with the Goldens.


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## oatmeal (Apr 11, 2017)

Once again thanks for the posts. I admit I did get entirely lost with the Dogo/fighting dogs business, so hopefully that’s not entirely relevant to my situation…haha.

Dracovich you mentioned that in our situation you would recommend a pet bred GSD over WL and I almost get the sense that there is some downside to this. I would never have considered a WL GSD. Is there something bad about a pet bred GSD? Sorry, not trying to start a thing, I just want to understand. 

I absolutely plan on visiting several breeders and spending time with a variety of dogs. We will possibly look outside of GSD and Goldens as well. Honestly my husband was so unprepared for the cost of a well-bred puppy that he’s made several suggestions lately of visiting a shelter…something that I see us maybe one day doing but I didn’t want to do that for a first dog. Am I allowed to post links to breeders I am thinking about to solicit opinions, or is that against board rules? And if so should I start a new thread for that?

LuvShepherds, that sums up what has made me fall in love with the GSD. I love the idea of a dog who is truly a member of our family, and an active participant with the children as you said. My patience is worn very thin at this stage in my life, and I feel that *I* specifically need to be excited about this dog or this will not go well. My husband initially suggested a poodle or french bulldog — those are great dogs I’m sure, but I just wasn’t feeling it. Same with a mutt from a shelter. We could maybe get a great pet that way, but if I’m not emotionally on board I can see it being a problem. I’m up for a dog that is more work (but — and this is the key I think, lol — WITHIN REASON…) if it’s a dog I love from the start. I understand I will have to keep the dog separated from the children entirely perhaps during the land shark phase — I’m hoping that’s pretty short. I understand we will have to be committed to doing training and obedience classes, more so than with another breed. Those things are ok…but yeah there is a line there somewhere.


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## NerdicEclipse (Feb 20, 2017)

oatmeal said:


> LuvShepherds, that sums up what has made me fall in love with the GSD. I love the idea of a dog who is truly a member of our family, and an active participant with the children as you said. My patience is worn very thin at this stage in my life, and I feel that *I* specifically need to be excited about this dog or this will not go well. My husband initially suggested a poodle or french bulldog — those are great dogs I’m sure, but I just wasn’t feeling it. Same with a mutt from a shelter. We could maybe get a great pet that way, but if I’m not emotionally on board I can see it being a problem. I’m up for a dog that is more work (but — and this is the key I think, lol — WITHIN REASON…) if it’s a dog I love from the start. I understand I will have to keep the dog separated from the children entirely perhaps during the land shark phase — I’m hoping that’s pretty short. I understand we will have to be committed to doing training and obedience classes, more so than with another breed. Those things are ok…but yeah there is a line there somewhere.


That's a very good point too. Any dog is a lot of work in it's own right. They all have quirks and needs that vary from other breeds. And individual personalities on top of that. Very, very wise and honest of you to point that out and I hope he understands. Pets are a lot of work and have a lot of needs and if you don't really feel it and WANT it, you're not going to be as interested in doing it. GSDs may require more than others, but if you're really into it and really want it - it feels much easier than even a "simpler" breed. Keep in mind too - there are GSDs all the time needing rescues. People get these without doing what you are as far as research beforehand. They don't realize the work involved, the nippy nature of them as pups or the patience required for quirks of the breed. So they just dump them off. You will see full blooded, gorgeous and sweet GSDs that were dumped for no other reason than the first owner was ignorant and/or didn't want to do what was necessary to help mold them into the family. Might be a good compromise for you and your husband!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

oatmeal said:


> Dracovich you mentioned that in our situation you would recommend a pet bred GSD over WL and I almost get the sense that there is some downside to this. I would never have considered a WL GSD. Is there something bad about a pet bred GSD? Sorry, not trying to start a thing, I just want to understand.


Do not look for a "pet bred" GSD. Look for a well bred show line or working line (either way) GSD. Look for a good, careful breeder. Many breeders do understand that while they are breeding for themselves and the betterment of the breed, they are also beholden to good pet owners. Aim higher than "pet bred." That's a nice way of saying, "BYB who doesn't know what the heck they are doing" and it is not a good plan.

Consider advice from people who have actually purchased good dogs from breeders who have successfully placed dogs with young families. Consider advice from people who have successfully raised both puppies and little kids. Take with a grain of salt advice given with great authority and no experiential or factual substantiation.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

oatmeal said:


> Once again thanks for the posts. I admit I did get entirely lost with the Dogo/fighting dogs business, so hopefully that’s not entirely relevant to my situation…haha.
> 
> Dracovich you mentioned that in our situation you would recommend a pet bred GSD over WL and I almost get the sense that there is some downside to this. I would never have considered a WL GSD. Is there something bad about a pet bred GSD? Sorry, not trying to start a thing, I just want to understand.
> 
> ...


Personally, I would not get a GSD from a breeder that doesn't have some sort of goal with their program. It doesn't have to be a working line, of course. There are many great American showline breeders that actively show their dogs, and many of them have dogs doing a wide variety of other dog sports. The reason it's wise to go to such a breeder over a backyard breeder who just happens to have two dogs they think are nice is that the breeder who works their dogs has a functional knowledge of the breed, the temperament of their dogs, genetics and how to make breeding decisions accordingly. A backyard breeder likely has none of that knowledge, if their dogs are just pets. Going to most backyard breeders is a roll of the dice as far as health and temperament go. You would actually be better off adopting from a shelter or rescue. Same unknowns, but at least your money wouldn't be going to a terrible breeder. And good rescues temperament test their dogs, so you would know what you are getting (with an adult, that is). There are even GSD specific rescues, so you could still get the GSD you have your heart set on. Good breeders usually offer lifetime support if issues arise with your puppy. If you encounter behavioral problems, they will help guide you with the behavior, or be able to help find a trainer that can help. That is invaluable.

Yes, puppies from good breedings cost more. But when you are making a 10+ year commitment with a living thing, it's worth it. You get what you pay for.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

German Shepherds vs Goldens. Golden goes ouside with kids and plays with them for a bit. Kids don't want to play fetch so Golden lies down and watche awhile. Golden goes to sleep while kids play. GSD goes out with kids and they play for awhile. Kids start to move from approved area, GSD herds them back. GSD does a perimeter search. Herds children back to approved area. Trots perimeter sniffing for possible intruders. Goes back and entertains kids. Sniffs doing ground check. Checks to see if adult is around. herd unruly kids back agin. One more perimeter check. Lay down and watch kids. Adult says play time over. GSD rounds up kids and escorts them in. GSD re checks yard. Finds a patch of sun and naps a little but is ready for anything in a split second. One of my daughters was 3 and we had a baby when I got my first pure bred GSD. No problems with the dog and kids. I had rules for both and stuck to them. If I had a concern it was that she was super protective of the girls.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I had previous post broken into lines but it came out in one bunch all run together . Hopefully the idea still came across. Tried to edit and that didn't work either. Oh Well.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GypsyGhost said:


> A backyard breeder likely has none of that knowledge, if their dogs are just pets. Going to most backyard breeders is a roll of the dice as far as health and temperament go. You would actually be better off adopting from a shelter or rescue. Same unknowns, but at least your money wouldn't be going to a terrible breeder. And good rescues temperament test their dogs, so you would know what you are getting (with an adult, that is). There are even GSD specific rescues, so you could still get the GSD you have your heart set on.


Also, foster homes for a rescue may have other dogs, large and/or small, cats, and even children. A young adult or older puppy will be calmer, past the landshark phase, housebroken, probably crate trained, and likely have some basic training. So if you're not ready to spend the money on a well bred puppy from a good breeder, going through a rescue is a viable option.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Jack's Dad said:


> German Shepherds vs Goldens. Golden goes ouside with kids and plays with them for a bit. Kids don't want to play fetch so Golden lies down and watche awhile. Golden goes to sleep while kids play. GSD goes out with kids and they play for awhile. Kids start to move from approved area, GSD herds them back. GSD does a perimeter search. Herds children back to approved area. Trots perimeter sniffing for possible intruders. Goes back and entertains kids. Sniffs doing ground check. Checks to see if adult is around. herd unruly kids back agin. One more perimeter check. Lay down and watch kids. Adult says play time over. GSD rounds up kids and escorts them in. GSD re checks yard. Finds a patch of sun and naps a little but is ready for anything in a split second. One of my daughters was 3 and we had a baby when I got my first pure bred GSD. No problems with the dog and kids. I had rules for both and stuck to them. If I had a concern it was that she was super protective of the girls.


This. My dog knows where my daughter is at all times.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

cloudpump said:


> This. My dog knows where my daughter is at all times.



That's what I meant in explaining the differences. Our GSD always knew where the children were. Indoors the dog moved back and forth between them if they were in separate rooms. They seem more attentive to needs.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> Read it and disagree with you even more now. That's like a golden sparkling example of a good dog. This whole time you've made it seem like he's an aggressive dangerous dog but that story says otherwise. That was your story to dissuade people from wanting a gsd?


Nope not at all. I'm pretty sure I said I got sent to the ER breaking up "Pack Fights" caused by "Rocky" ... every single time! I think, I also said in one of those fights my hand ended up in my Bandog's mouth and even with 116 lbs of OS GSD on his back Gunther ... once he felt my flesh ... did not crush my hand and let go and I chose and trained him, but you know ... I'm mediocre at best. >

I didn't even bother to relate my ... under carefully controlled circumstance, what my clearly ... proven "Toddler Disliking GSD" did when he was in an out of site "Place" situation (as that had not happened) and "Rocky" was met with the unexpected of appearance of "Toddler!!!" I'll simply say that ... regardless of "Breed" ... I train my dogs to "Make Good Choices" ... worked out fine. 

That link is merely my story with my yes ... one particular OS GSD. I ... make No recommendations as regards GSD's ... but yes ... my particular dog ... aside from "Wobblers" is an excellent representation of the breed! It takes a lot to impress me but he did. 

But I had ten years of experiance with "real dogs" and yes ... sigh ... "Boxers" are real dogs. So a big "Furry Dog with a Pointy face" (my GSD) ... No Big Deal. But you know as it turned out .... not so much! Rocky exploited ... every situation, which I did not understand?? Starting with ... "Bully Breeds" as I came to understand later ... are apparently "Low Rank Drive" dogs, whatever postion they are in "Pack Rank" ... is good with them. Hence not understanding that "breed characteristic dfference" apparently "Equaled Pack Fights" waiting to happen??? Next would be "Formal obedience Training" does not fix "behavioural issues" ... who knew??? Add in lack of proper Management in the home ... ie "What's a Crate" and what's "Free Roaming???" And the kicker was, seven months of "Zero" issues that I saw??? What dog does that??? And then one day out of the "Blue???" It was:









Nonetheless "We" got it done! So that's our history and Five Pack fights trip and a trip to the ER and a clear and present danger to company and strangers that he was ... I Hear on here, that these days "Rocky" was an "Easy Dog" ... OK then. I've seen similar stories of other members with difficult GSD's and ... I'll simply say ... I still have my dog.  

So ...my particular story is neither pro nor con, it's merely what happened and how I solved it and the basis of why "I don't recommend GSD to anyone I know." Others are free to do as they see fit. 

But you know ... always being one, that tends to point out the obvious ... I will note that while on here ... you know, we have a whole forum dedicated to "Aggression Issues." On my other breed of choice "BoxerForum" ... there is no such forum??? And yes ... every now and then "Boxers" with serious aggression issues do show up ... but it's pretty rare. In the real world ... I've met many Boxers and out of those I saw one sigh ... a female at that ... and she was not a "Boxer" you'd want to meet in a dark alley, I was stunned??? 

But ... I got's no problem with my particular OS GSD and when I get my next GSD, ... I'd consider myself lucky to get one just like him! But you know of course ... "proper management would be incorporated ... out the Box ... hard lessons learned. As I am want to say ... "Rocky and I are good." :grin2:

But the op said a GSD or a Golden if others feel that's an apt comparison ... OK then.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

oatmeal said:


> Once again thanks for the posts. I admit I did get entirely lost with the Dogo/fighting dogs business, so hopefully that’s not entirely relevant to my situation…haha.
> 
> Dracovich you mentioned that in our situation you would recommend a pet bred GSD over WL and I almost get the sense that there is some downside to this. I would never have considered a WL GSD. Is there something bad about a pet bred GSD? Sorry, not trying to start a thing, I just want to understand.
> 
> ...


Not separated completely, supervised interaction only would be fine in most instances. Both kids and dog will need to learn proper interaction. Some pups will bite relentlessly others very little and how kids will react to this can vary considerably too. Teach them both and you'll get through this phase fine. 

On occasion my youngest son and daughter encouraged the biting with our WL male, they were 7 and 9 at the time. We had to teach them that while they were ok with rough play others were not, including our grandson who was 2. Getting everyone to be consistent and follow the same rules will keep everyone safe.


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## Hugz (Sep 7, 2016)

My dog is about 1 year older than my son (who is 9 months now). 

First off, yes, GSDs do shed a lot. We have 3 cats and figured that we were used to animal hair... well... the GSD sheds a ton more than the cats. The cat hair seems to stick to things like blankets... whereas the GSD hair just gets a light dusting all over the house. I estimate we vacuum 2 or 3 times per week. The hair doesn't bother me too much... wife still hates it and is constantly asking me to vacuum. 

Now that my dog is almost 2 years old, he's a great dog. Very gentle and careful with my 9 month old son. He's well trained by now and listens to us.

However, my dog was a bit of nut when he was a younger puppy. By 6 month, they get pretty big and they are full of energy. They don't really understand how big and strong they are by that point. Sometimes, you really feel like you're living with a wild animal. I also feel that my dog had lower energy and drive than other GSDs I read about on the forums. I taught him bite inhibition from a young age which was a great decision, because you hear stories of puppies starting to bite and nip at people... and you don't want him to do that to your kids.

My wife hated our dog up until about 6 months ago when he calmed down and became more trained. When he was a puppy, you couldn't just sit down and relax and just watch TV because the dog would always be doing stuff. I would say that owning a GSD puppy is almost more work than a kid. But my wife loves our dog now. Other than taking him for walks/runs, feeding him, letting him outside to go to the bathroom, etc. he's not that much work anymore. 

I think they're a difficult breed for a first time dog owner. But once they get to be a year old, they calm down and become much easier to deal with (at least that was my experience). The first year is gonna be tough though. He probably would never hurt your children intentionally (assuming you get a nice dog), but they're so big and strong and hyper that a kid can easily get hurt if you're not careful.

I would also recommend getting a showline GSD from a good breeder. Or if you're going for an adult dog, make sure it's a good and calm family dog.

After owning a GSD, I don't think I would ever want another breed of dog. They're just so smart, loyal, etc. At this point, my dog is the perfect dog IMO. The puppy phase is no cake walk though. If you're able to exercise your dog a lot, your life will be a lot easier if you can tire the dog out everyday. But many GSD puppies are too much for many owners... but if you can get through the puppy phase and train them well, they become fantastic family dogs.

One of the last issues we are dealing with is his barking. He still looks out the window and guards the house... but he barks when dogs or even just people walk by our house (or if anything is out of the ordinary). We're managing to train him to be quiet without a bark collar so far... but he has woke our baby up from a few naps. We're almost at the point where he will just let out a quiet bark when the baby is napping to let us know someone is approaching the house, but without using his full loud bark.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

OP-- I'm late to the party but my vote is no, a GSD is not a good fit for your family. Very small yard, very hot climate, very young kids, very little dog experience. 

You stated you had been afraid of dogs before...and didn't really want this one in the first place (I know you also said you came around from that). 

I lived in FL with GSDs...you have to be committed to making use of early early morning and late evening and not missing that opportunity. You can't just "walk the dog" any old time, because you will both literally die midday lol.

Your son could get involved as a junior handler doing all sorts of stuff with any other breed too, and I think that's a fantastic idea. I do not think a German Shepherd is a fantastic idea for your family.

I also agree so much with vetting your breeder to death, be sure you really are getting a good dog, no matter what the breed.

German shepherds are dogs that are prized for hard, full grips in the bite sports. Goldens and other retrievers are prized for a soft mouth that brings back the bird unchewed. One is much more likely to welcome all your kid's friends into the house without a peep (golden) and probably much less likely to intimidate you.

Heaven knows I love shepherds, but based on everything you said, get the golden.

I have met some goldens recently that I liked so much it made ME want one and I don't really like that type of dog. But man they are just DARLINGS.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I have met some goldens recently that I liked so much it made ME want one and I don't really like that type of dog. But man they are just DARLINGS.


LOL ... I saw one like that! Semi off leash dog park ... it was on leash only but people don't follow rules.

Anyway Rock and I were off leash as was the Golden at a distance. He was sitting by his owner with a Frisbee in his mouth just watching us. He so wanted to play! I should have taken a picture ... but I swear ... you could just imagine a spotlight of golden light shining on him and a Halo above his head. 

I didn't go to the owner and try the introduce the dogs thing ... "Rocky I'm sure would have been good but that's just not the kinda thing I do. Most of the time ... I simply don't care ... but that time it kinda hurt. 

On the other hand as a Foster we did rescue and we were also a home for dogs gone loose. One ... them was a Golden that was always running away from home! The owner used "Foster Homes" as a containment measure. That particular Golden, well you would have to have seen him. Not dog aggressive or anything or ... really bad mannered ... but more of a self entitled over privileged "A-Hole!!! He was only with us for a couple hours but we were glad to see him go! But you know most likely that particular dog's owner was a tool also??? 

I'm just not a "Bird Dog" kinda guy but the "Dog Park" Golden even thought I did not meet him ... left quite an impression on me ... in a good way.


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## Adirondackman (Apr 6, 2017)

"Personally I don't think dogs are ideal for a family with infants. " wow not sure what kind of childhood you grew up in DRACOVICH, mine was surrounded by large dogs ( GSD INCLUDED). Under parents supervision, A GSD can enjoy being part of family life with infants. Waiting until children turn four years old seems incredibly overprotective to the point where dogs perhaps should not be an option at any age.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hugz said:


> My dog is about 1 year older than my son (who is 9 months now).
> 
> First off, yes, GSDs do shed a lot. We have 3 cats and figured that we were used to animal hair... well... the GSD sheds a ton more than the cats. The cat hair seems to stick to things like blankets... whereas the GSD hair just gets a light dusting all over the house. I estimate we vacuum 2 or 3 times per week. The hair doesn't bother me too much... wife still hates it and is constantly asking me to vacuum.
> 
> ...


I agree with your post by and large but the random barking out the window thing ... yeah I see that a lot. It was not an issue I ever had but if I did ... I'd use a "bonker" and call it day.:
Stopping unwanted behavior with Bonkers! - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

Now if someone is actually approaching the house ... that is different ... you'd have to actually observe to see what the barking issue is?? But a dog that barks at everything ... is pretty useless as a watch dog.


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## oatmeal (Apr 11, 2017)

I just wanted to say thanks again for all of the advice. At this point I’m heavily leaning towards the GSD, and my husband is on board and getting excited. We are going to meet with breeders (of both GSD and Goldens if we can find them close enough to visit...), and still open to other breeds potentially. We are in North Florida, fyi...if anyone has breeders to recommend.

One more question, and I know there isn’t necessarily an easy straight answer here — should I be looking for show line or working line? Every time I feel set on one side I feel like I read a compelling argument for the other. Also on that note, we are set to visit this breeder this weekend: 
J-Lyn Shepherds Home Page

Can I get opinions on the breeder? I spoke with her on the phone and she seemed knowledgeable but obviously I’m not in a position to gauge that very well.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

oatmeal said:


> I just wanted to say thanks again for all of the advice. At this point I’m heavily leaning towards the GSD, and my husband is on board and getting excited. We are going to meet with breeders (of both GSD and Goldens if we can find them close enough to visit...), and still open to other breeds potentially. We are in North Florida, fyi...if anyone has breeders to recommend.
> 
> One more question, and I know there isn’t necessarily an easy straight answer here — should I be looking for show line or working line? Every time I feel set on one side I feel like I read a compelling argument for the other. Also on that note, we are set to visit this breeder this weekend:
> J-Lyn Shepherds Home Page
> ...


The dog on that page is an American Showline.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Adirondackman said:


> "Personally I don't think dogs are ideal for a family with infants. " wow not sure what kind of childhood you grew up in DRACOVICH, mine was surrounded by large dogs ( GSD INCLUDED). Under parents supervision, A GSD can enjoy being part of family life with infants. Waiting until children turn four years old seems incredibly overprotective to the point where dogs perhaps should not be an option at any age.


Oh back in the day ... kids were a lot tougher! When I grew up, back in the 60's if my dog bit me ... my Dad would have said ... well whatever you did ... don't do it again, worked out fine. >


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## oatmeal (Apr 11, 2017)

I saw that her dogs are American showlines -- I was curious if she seems like a good breeder and if her dogs seem appropriate for my situation


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

oatmeal said:


> I saw that her dogs are American showlines -- I was curious if she seems like a good breeder and if her dogs seem appropriate for my situation


They could be. I don't know that much about ASL but I like that her dogs aren't extreme builds and seem to have very sound temperaments. They would probably make very good family pets.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

oatmeal said:


> I saw that her dogs are American showlines -- I was curious if she seems like a good breeder and if her dogs seem appropriate for my situation


Maybe @Xeph knows her?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I believe Xeph -a reputable American showline breeder said she liked the temperament of j- lyn's dogs which are American showline and is a knowledgable breeder. We have a American showline - Max and he does not skip a beat with the kids. He wants to be part of any action or non action with the kids. He has such a great personality with the kids -a charmer and a clown and with that sweetness and charming ways still has a serious side which makes him a good watch dog.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I admittedly know very little about ASL dogs, but I saw on your other thread @Xeph said she thought the dogs had overall good temperaments. It seems as though the breeder actually shows her dogs. I would think your best bet would be to meet the breeder and her dogs, and ask if you can contact some references. I'm sorry, but I personally have no idea how to evaluate a good ASL breeder. I've heard ASL dogs have a little less edge and are possibly a little easier to manage, but really it's hard to generalize an entire line. That said, if I were in your situation, I'd probably be looking at ASL dogs. Just my opinion, though.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I don't think there's a right or wrong choice when choosing a working or show line for a companion ...a lot depends on personal preference and what you plan to do with your GSD. Unless you plan to participate in a protection sport like IPO/Schutzhund, I tend to think a show line, either American or WGSL, would be most appropriate for your family since you might be more likely to find one with lower drive. I've had a working line, WGSL, and most recently a white shepherd, and I have loved them all equally. 

My WGSL has probably been my easiest dog (in that he is social and confident, likes meeting new ppl, but is still protective of yard/home. I can pretty much take him anywhere and not worry about how he will react to people or dogs. Mostly I credit his behavior to good breeding, but I put in lots of time training and socialization too. He was a very active, chompy puppy, and he had (has) quite a bit of prey drive.) My most challenging GSD was my working line b/c he was dog-reactive and could be (but was not always) suspicious around new people, but I don't think I could have had a deeper bond with a dog. Of course, I don't want to generalize and say all WGSL's or all working line dogs are like the ones I have had. Every dog is an individual and a good breeder will choose an appropriate puppy for you. 

An American show line might be more likely to be in your preferred price range (that I think you mentioned in another thread). And I am sure they make wonderful companions. 

Whatever line you choose, if you do your homework and buy from a reputable breeder, your chances of a healthy stable dog greatly increase.


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## Adirondackman (Apr 6, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> Oh back in the day ... kids were a lot tougher! When I grew up, back in the 60's if my dog bit me ... my Dad would have said ... well whatever you did ... don't do it again, worked out fine. >


There's a point here somewhere in this attempt at humour!? My point is today's dog owners like yourself shelter their young ones with their righteous ways about when they feel their offspring are mature enough to share the planet with an eighty pound family dog! Never too young to expose children to house pets!


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> Oh back in the day ... kids were a lot tougher! When I grew up, back in the 60's if my dog bit me ... my Dad would have said ... well whatever you did ... don't do it again, worked out fine. >


I'm in my 20s and that's pretty much my parents response, and yep I did get nipped a few times by the dogs. I see parents forcing dogs to tolerate tail pulling and kids RIDING dogs, that's borderline cruelty in my book. Then when an incident occurs the parents say "my child was not doing anything wrong it was completely unprovoked", and maybe it seemed that way just based off of the 10 seconds it took for something to go wrong, but parents often don't realize their dog is becoming fearful of children and at some point that dog will have enough and lash out at a child walking by. Then the dog either gets shot or dumped at a shelter.

The first time one of the family dogs bit me and broke skin (this only happened twice) I was afraid to tell my parents, when I did I begged them not to get rid of my dog and my dad's response was "Why would I get rid of him what did you do to him?"... I had put him on the bench swing and his foot got caught while jumping off, I tried to help him and he bit my hand out of desperation to escape, luckily I got him off despite being latched to my hand. He laughed at me and gave me a bag of ice.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Adirondackman said:


> There's a point here somewhere in this attempt at humour!? My point is today's dog owners like yourself shelter their young ones with their righteous ways about when they feel their offspring are mature enough to share the planet with an eighty pound family dog! Never too young to expose children to house pets!


Yes there was ... and obviously it failed my bad. Being a child, does not necessarily make one a good person I suppose ... just a random thought.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Linda (J-Lyn Shepherds) has been around for a long time. I've seen many of her dogs, and, overall, they have good temperments and make fine family pets


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

This is a year old thread. I wonder what happened. I didn't read it all but my impression with the 8 year old having meltdown plus a baby was they should have gotten a Pug.


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