# Help! Parents shouldn't have a dog.



## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi all,

My parents, who are in their late 50s, recently had their chocolate lab pass away this fall. He was 10, on thyroid meds, and unable to stand up anymore. It was very sad.

However, despite the urging of my sister and myself, they refused to feed this dog anything other than the cheapest food ($8 for 50#), then complained about his medication. I printed out articles for them on the value of good food v. bargain food, but they just got mad at me and wouldn't talk about it. I tried to approach it from several angles, but in the end they don't want to take advice from me. I studied psychology in college, and tried every trick I know, but no luck. 

Also, this dog spent his entire life outside. He had a kennel, but he was allowed to roam the property 24/7 (they have 100 acres in the middle of nowhere) once he was considered trustworthy. They also let him sleep in the heated garage when it was cold outside. To my parents, this was taking very good care of the dog. Previously, they had only owned hunting beagles, which were kenneled unless they were hunting with my dad (you know, like 2 times a year).  They thought that this lab was the greatest dog ever, but they refused to feed him quality food or let him inside. 

So here's my dilemma: now my parents are thinking about getting a puppy. This is bad bad bad. I can picture this poor little guy outside, all alone, day after day. I live too far away (7 hours) to take care of the pup for them. My mom is a huge neat freak (she has bright white carpet, if that's any indication), and will NEVER let the pup in the house. Even when my sister and I visit with our fully trained dogs who live with us inside, she insists that they are crated out in the garage during our stay. That's fine when we visit, but it's not how a pup should live. Now, my dad was retired, and he spent a lot of time outside (say 5-8 hours a day), but now he's working again and he will not be home that often. 

Oh, and one last thing. The lab they had received ZERO socialization. He was fear aggressive with strangers (which they labeled as protective, and thought it was a good thing). 

I feel like there are only 3 options here:
1. Talk them out of getting a dog entirely.
2. Talk them into better quality food. I know they will never let the dog in the house. Perhaps find a breed that is more independent and would not mind some time alone (although I think that all dogs want to be with their pack, so this is probably not going to happen).
3. Shut up and deal with it.

I would prefer option 1, but it's not up to me. :help:

I wish parents would be more receptive to listing to their adult children. They are convinced that since they don't chain the dog up to a tree that they are good dog owners.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Wow, tough dilemma. I guess you can let them know how strongly you feel on the subject, but beyond that, how they are choosing to treat their dog is not abusive or illegal. I agree, it is by no means how I would keep a dog. But they are not technically doing anything wrong in the eyes of the rest of society. At some point you have to decide if you want to make it into something that hurts your relationship with your parents, or just let it go. Unfortunately, you cannot make people behave how you want them to (believe me, I have tried  ). Good luck, I hope you can talk them out of it.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

As much as I hate to say this-if your parents do not have dementia and are otherwise in the right state of mind, and they don't accept advice from you then really your only option is your third one.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Wait till they get the pup and then call ASPCA & PETA on them.
You can do it anonymously.


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

It's very frustrating. 

Does anyone have any suggestions for dogs that do ok outside? If I can't talk them out of a dog, maybe I can talk them out of a lab, which are very social. I've heard that dogs like Great Pyrenees and Akitas do alright outside, but I'm not sure if it's because of their temperament of if people just think they're ok because of their thick coats. I even read that GSDs are "good outside dogs" but I know that's total bologna - my dogs are super pack oriented and would be miserable stuck outside alone all day. Not to mention destructive...


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

Ace952 said:


> Wait till they get the pup and then call SPCA & PETA on them.
> You can do it anonymously.


Sure I could, but they're not technically abusing the animal - he would have food, shelter, and he wouldn't be mistreated. I don't want to cause my parents any emotional problems either.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Better yet....
let them get the dog and after 2 weeks......go in the backyard and take the dog. They will think someone stole it and it will devastate them enough to where they may not get another.

With the pup.....find it a good home.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Ace952 said:


> Wait till they get the pup and then call ASPCA & PETA on them.
> You can do it anonymously.


The SPCA will not thank you for wasting their time by calling them to report someone who is treating their dog in a way that is entirely legal. 

PETA, you don't want to mess with.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Minnieski said:


> I don't want to cause my parents any emotional problems either.


Hey as parents get older we as their children must do things that are in their best interest despite them not liking it. Give the puppy a chance....

Parents will get over it.


See 2nd solution.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Good lord, call SPCA and PETA on ones parents simply for having different beliefs on dog care? You must have a heck of a family reunion Ace, with those kinds of attitudes towards immediate family.

SPCA isn't going to do crap. The dog has 100 acres to roam and is fed and watered, has shelter. Unless neighbors are complaining about the loose dog, if it's staying on the property they won't do anything about it.

I agree I wouldn't keep a dog like that, but it's really not that bad of a life. IMHO better than living in a crate indoors on that nice white carpet and never getting outside because the owners work all day. The food...well, it's crap, but if they're feeding the dog not much you can do there. I wouldn't ruin a relationship with my parents over this. They may have grumbled about the meds, but the dog received them didn't he?


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Rerun said:


> Good lord, call SPCA and PETA on ones parents simply for having different beliefs on dog care? You must have a heck of a family reunion Ace, with those kinds of attitudes towards immediate family.
> 
> SPCA isn't going to do crap. The dog has 100 acres to roam and is fed and watered, has shelter. Unless neighbors are complaining about the loose dog, if it's staying on the property they won't do anything about it.
> 
> I agree I wouldn't keep a dog like that, but it's really not that bad of a life. IMHO better than living in a crate indoors on that nice white carpet and never getting outside because the owners work all day. The food...well, it's crap, but if they're feeding the dog not much you can do there. I wouldn't ruin a relationship with my parents over this. They may have grumbled about the meds, but the dog received them didn't he?


I completely agree.


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

Yes, my dad was always very meticulous with administering the meds. 

I also agree with Rerun - a lot of dogs get to live in the house but are confined for long long days while their people are at work. At least outside he can walk around.

I just wish they'd see the cause and effect - feed good food, pay less in vet bills. 

They don't have a puppy yet, but I know it won't be long. Spring is here and the bybs are listing pups left and right. They won't pay a lot for a dog (and most good breeders would probably not let a pup go to an outdoor only home anyway).


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

My parents have two dogs. One is a poodle mix - she is their baby. They spoil her to death. But she is a very well behaved dog. Social, healthy and happy. She makes my parents happy. 

Their 2nd dog stays outside 24/7. The adopted her from a rescue as a puppy. I'm not sure what kind of dog she is but looks as though she is a Pointer / Wiemeraner (sp) mix. She stays in a large kennel outside. They don't let her run because he is afraid she'll get hit by a car. They have no fence. My dad put bricks on the bottom of the kennel so he can rinse out her poop every day. I'm not sure what he feeds her, but I'm sure it is a cheap feed store type feed. 

BUT - every day my dad goes to the farm. He let's the dog out, she races to the back of his truck and up she goes. Once he goes to the farm she jumps out and races around the farm. She is always within sight of him. All he has to do is call her name and she glues herself to him. If he goes into the cabin she stays on the porch. They spend hours at the farm, every day. My dad is an older fella. He has on more than one occasion forgotten her at the farm. He'll go back up there and she'll be waiting for him on the porch. 

She is a happy dog. She makes my parents happy. At this point, I really don't care what they feed her - or where she sleeps at night. What they are doing works for them.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Minnieski said:


> Yes, my dad was always very meticulous with administering the meds.
> 
> I also agree with Rerun - a lot of dogs get to live in the house but are confined for long long days while their people are at work. At least outside he can walk around.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, the cause and effect isn't often the case. Post after post here about changing to a higher quality food and dogs getting the runs, losing weight, not liking their food, etc. We all know most of the reasons for these things, but what most of society sees is a dog that got skinny, didn't like their new food, and it made them sick. So they go back to the old stuff and it works great. Shockingly many dogs do fine on the crappy foods, I've seen dogs on pedigree that look and live just as long as dogs on orijen. Lots of farm dogs and house pets are fed crap food and live long lives. 10 yrs isn't long for a lab, but who knows if better diet would've made his life longer. Possibly, possibly not.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

If the only people who had dogs were the ones who keep them in the house and feed super-premium food, there would be A LOT more homeless dogs in the world.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Rerun said:


> Unfortunately, the cause and effect isn't often the case. Post after post here about changing to a higher quality food and dogs getting the runs, losing weight, not liking their food, etc. We all know most of the reasons for these things, but what most of society sees is a dog that got skinny, didn't like their new food, and it made them sick. So they go back to the old stuff and it works great. Shockingly many dogs do fine on the crappy foods, I've seen dogs on pedigree that look and live just as long as dogs on orijen. Lots of farm dogs and house pets are fed crap food and live long lives. 10 yrs isn't long for a lab, but who knows if better diet would've made his life longer. Possibly, possibly not.


I know a dog that is 14 years old and still going strong, and this dog has been fed pizza, hot dogs, whatever is left over from dinner. The dog NEVER ate dog food. Amazing.


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## mfj (May 14, 2011)

HOnestly, I feel very strongly about this subject and would have no problem disowning my parents if they ignored me.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Keeping a dog in abackyard all day like the OP is stating is no different than neglect to me.

I know someone right now that has a GSD like this. They got the dog as a pup and it has lived outside everyday and doesn't ever really get to come inside. Older people are the owners. Too old for the dog to live a useful life. Poor dog. If it was my parents I would have stolen the dog out of the backyard at night and given to a rescue. 

Just cause the dog had food, water & shelter doesn't mean its a good situation. I'll risk a family member being mad at me if it means the dog can go somewhere where it can live a better life. Your parents will get over it. **** im sure you have done much worse growing up that they have gotten over.

Old people are like children...gotta protect them from themselves.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

You must be a kid to be saying "old people" in reference to people in their 50's. Good grief


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Rerun said:


> You must be a kid to be saying "old people" in reference to people in their 50's. Good grief


Agreed! LMAO


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## stacey_eight (Sep 20, 2010)

Minnieski said:


> It's very frustrating.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions for dogs that do ok outside? If I can't talk them out of a dog, maybe I can talk them out of a lab, which are very social. I've heard that dogs like Great Pyrenees and Akitas do alright outside,


No suggestions for breeds that like to live outside, but I think an Akita would be a BAD idea. The 2 I've known were not nice dogs. From what I understand this is a breed that requires a lot of management.


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## babylicky (May 9, 2011)

Be a voice for those that can't speak....I believe that all dogs, no matter what breed are social and thrive on being with their people. 
Have your tried to talk with your parents and express your concerns?


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Pyrs are indeed known to be very outdoorsy dogs, but they do require a good amount of coat maintenance and compared to the short coated lab your parents may not want to deal with the pyr coat.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Rerun said:


> You must be a kid to be saying "old people" in reference to people in their 50's. Good grief


depends on what you call a kid.

I got brothers & sisters in their mid to late 50's.

I am 33 and yes I consider 50 old. If that offends you then it offends you. It is what it is.


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm not about to steal their puppy, if they did get one.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Minnieski said:


> It's very frustrating.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions for dogs that do ok outside? If I can't talk them out of a dog, maybe I can talk them out of a lab, which are very social. I've heard that dogs like Great Pyrenees and Akitas do alright outside, but I'm not sure if it's because of their temperament of if people just think they're ok because of their thick coats. I even read that GSDs are "good outside dogs" but I know that's total bologna - my dogs are super pack oriented and would be miserable stuck outside alone all day. Not to mention destructive...


I got this far in the posts. And will go back and read the rest, but I have to comment. 

PLEASE do not encourage your parents to get a GP or an Akita. These are HUGE, powerful dogs that given freedom, and little to no leadership will get your parents into a world of hurt. 

I mean it sucks to see a relatively happy dog romping around the farm, doing its thing, and not knowing that there are dogs who live inside the house sleeping on the owner's bed. But how would it be if your parents are scrambling around to get homeowner's insurance after getting canceled after being sued because a dog that YOU suggested decided to take several chunks out of a meter reader?

I think your heart is in the right place, but I think you are dead wrong. Your folks have raised dogs their way before. Dogs get old and die. Some dogs live outside their whole lives and do pretty good living outside. Labs are hunting dogs. Too many people get lab pups, crate them a great portion of the day, and then take them to obedience school when they are having issues with them. They expect these very active dogs to be cooped up, crated all day and all night in the house, and wonder why in the world the dog is not perfect when they let it out of the crate. 

If your parents want another lab, why not suggest they get one from your local kill shelter. They pay 25 - 75 bucks and save a puppy from getting very dead, very fast. The pup eats dog-food, and is trained to stay on the property, and when it is trustworthy, is given the run of the property. It is not the way you or I would keep a dog, but it is certainly not foreign. 

Have you ever thought for a moment that maybe our way is not exactly perfect?

Call the ASPCA or PETA on them??? For what? For treating a dog like a dog? For not dressing it up in doggy clothes, and providing a heated ortho dog bed? For not brushing its teeth three times a week? For not letting it up on the couch and bed? For not feeding RAW? For feeding RAW? For not taking it to training classes? For not providing bull penises for it to chew on? 

I am sorry, but we love our dogs. Some of us love our dogs to death, letting them get to be resembling coffee tables. Some of us love our dogs too much checking daily to see if the testicles drop, or the ears go up. Some of us love our dogs too much by changing their food over and over and over again, not giving the dog enough time to adjust to the food. Some of us train and lead and have the dog inside and do dog parks and doggy daycare and STILL have a fearful/ reactive dog. 

You have a dog, and you can spoil your dog in whatever way you want. Some of the things you subject your dog to, your parents probably cringe at. Or maybe they just do not think that much about your dog. But let your parents do their dog their way.


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

Selzer I agree with a lot you have to say. I'm venting my frustration. When I provide them with concrete information on the quality of food it's hard to see them ignore the evidence. 

They want to get a puppy from a breeder because they want to know where it comes from. This is their choice. 

Of course I've thought that my way isn't always the best way. But I still hate to see a puppy alone for 12 hours a day. I never said I'd call the SPCA on them, that was another poster.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

lol...

12 hours a day isn't bad *IF* they spend quality time with them in the house and what not. My dogs spend 10 hours at home in crates while Im at work.

Now when im home they get to play outside in backyard and I spend time training with them. At night I block off the stairs as they are free to roam upstairs and sleep wherever they want. I have a 2 yr old medium drive and a 10 month old high drive.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Rerun said:


> You must be a kid to be saying "old people" in reference to people in their 50's. Good grief


I am 67 and can probably outrun most of you. Too many people are making this about themselves and not about the OP's problem. She is to be commended for rising above her parents' thinking. It is folly to think you can easily change the attitudes of many people about how dogs are to be treated and fed. Either by the so-called enlightened who have their own 'expert' opinions or the 'old fashioned' who think a dog belongs outside (as they have, by the way, for millions of years). Hopefully, she can pierce their armor of ignorance and educate them on more appropriate ways of nurturing a dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ace952 said:


> depends on what you call a kid.
> 
> I got brothers & sisters in their mid to late 50's.
> 
> I am 33 and yes I consider 50 old. If that offends you then it offends you. It is what it is.


LOL x 3

Gotta take care of the old fogies. Late fifties -- like children???

One of my best friends is mid-eighties and she could probably run mental circles around you. Another of my best friends is in her seventies and is raising two GSD puppies. She could also run most of the people I know into the ground by the expanse of her knowledge. 

I wonder if in another twenty years, your kids think you are too OLD to have a GSD, so they sneak in and steal it and dump it at a PETA shelter where it is killed as an owner turn in within the hour. I wonder how that would be for you. If your kids did that because the poor puppy should not be raised by such an old fogie. 

Sometimes the facts we must face aren't pleasant, but fifty is coming your way too. 

What is left after fifty? Assisted living? The Geriatric Center? The Home??? 

Hope you are raising some pretty good kids, because in another few blinks, they are going to be making those decisions for you, whether you are ready or not.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Ace952 said:


> depends on what you call a kid.
> 
> I got brothers & sisters in their mid to late 50's.
> 
> I am 33 and yes I consider 50 old. If that offends you then it offends you. It is what it is.


I would say something about this comment...but I'm having a hard time staying awake.....Keeping focused.....it's getting dark outside so it's near my bed time..........I'm sorry, what were we talking about?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

They have 100+ acres -- that is like a farm. Not sure if they grow stuff or have critters, but that is a lot of land. 

I think farm dogs are a reality. 

Farm dogs are not generally indoor/outdoor dogs. There is too much mud on a farm, and you would be constantly bathing the dog, and that is no good for them either.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lilie said:


> I would say something about this comment...but I'm having a hard time staying awake.....Keeping focused.....it's getting dark outside so it's near my bed time..........I'm sorry, what were we talking about?


LOL! Good night old timer!


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

Rerun said:


> Good lord, call SPCA and PETA on ones parents simply for having different beliefs on dog care? You must have a heck of a family reunion Ace, with those kinds of attitudes towards immediate family.
> 
> SPCA isn't going to do crap. The dog has 100 acres to roam and is fed and watered, has shelter. Unless neighbors are complaining about the loose dog, if it's staying on the property they won't do anything about it.
> 
> I agree I wouldn't keep a dog like that, but it's really not that bad of a life. IMHO better than living in a crate indoors on that nice white carpet and never getting outside because the owners work all day. The food...well, it's crap, but if they're feeding the dog not much you can do there. I wouldn't ruin a relationship with my parents over this. They may have grumbled about the meds, but the dog received them didn't he?


:thumbup: AGREED!


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

Lilie said:


> I would say something about this comment...but I'm having a hard time staying awake.....Keeping focused.....it's getting dark outside so it's near my bed time..........I'm sorry, what were we talking about?


:spittingcoffee: Hilarious!! I'm 35, so I guess in about 15 years my kids will need to start finding a home for me?? Scary!!


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Ace952 said:


> depends on what you call a kid.
> 
> I got brothers & sisters in their mid to late 50's.
> 
> I am 33 and yes I consider 50 old. If that offends you then it offends you. It is what it is.


Too bad they didn't teach you to speak English, not to mention overused trite expressions.


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

Tihannah said:


> :spittingcoffee: Hilarious!! I'm 35, so I guess in about 15 years my kids will need to start finding a home for me?? Scary!!


I better start whittling my walking stick now! :rofl:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I was looking at walkers today. And they have one of those rolling potty chairs....


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

selzer said:


> I was looking at walkers today. And they have one of those rolling potty chairs....


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> Too bad they didn't teach you to speak English, not to mention overused trite expressions.


Let me know what you couldn't read and i type a lil slower.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

I believe this man just turned 50?? They can send his old butt to me!! I'll tuck him in REAL good every night! Make sure he gets his vitamins and everything!!


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## irongrl (May 24, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> Agreed! LMAO


 
LMAO too..a couple in their 50's get called "old people" and there was also a reference to dementia in one of the posts. Wow.


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## irongrl (May 24, 2010)

selzer said:


> LOL x 3
> 
> Gotta take care of the old fogies. Late fifties -- like children???
> 
> ...


That was a great post! Thank you!


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Originally Posted by *PaddyD*  
_Too bad they didn't teach you to speak English, not to mention overused trite expressions._


Ace's response....



Ace952 said:


> Let me know what you couldn't read *and i type* a lil slower.


Priceless.


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

tihannah said:


> i believe this man just turned 50?? They can send his old butt to me!! I'll tuck him in real good every night! Make sure he gets his vitamins and everything!!


ditto that!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes, please type slowly and use the big print too. I am sure there is some way I could make your print look bigger on my screen, but you know all these technical things are so confusing...

Just like kids, you have to humor us old folks.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

How about trying to talk them into a resue of a breed that doesn't need all the people interaction that a GSD (and others) do need?

That way at least the dog would have a reasonable life that is much better than a kennel and esp. the needle?

Might be worth a try anyway. Then they don't have all the many hassles of a little puppy and some dog gets a 2nd shot at life.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Oh, man. My hips, my back.... Does that cosoquin stuff actually work? I wish they would put Glacosomine and Chondroiton in our food. I take C-pills, but because I have to wait half an hour before eating anything after my thyroid pills, I keep forgetting the vitamins. They should make Geritol - thyroid for us old people with thyroid issues. Then we could just take one-a-day and be done with it...


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## Iletthedogout (Aug 30, 2010)

Minnieski said:


> It's very frustrating.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions for dogs that do ok outside? If I can't talk them out of a dog, maybe I can talk them out of a lab, which are very social. I've heard that dogs like Great Pyrenees and Akitas do alright outside, but I'm not sure if it's because of their temperament of if people just think they're ok because of their thick coats. I even read that GSDs are "good outside dogs" but I know that's total bologna - my dogs are super pack oriented and would be miserable stuck outside alone all day. Not to mention destructive...


dogs were outside dogs before they were inside dogs...

They aren't destructive because they are outside. they are that way because there is no interaction... that would be the same whether they were inside or outside.


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

Yes, but this dog will get very little interaction during the colder months, when my parents feed the dog from out of the sliding door. If my dad were still retired it would be different, but he is working a lot of hours now. Sigh. I give up.

Question -
Would everyone still be giving me the same responses if they were interested in a GSD? Just curious.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

Do you think there is any way you can talk them out of getting a puppy or dog? What breed are they looking to get?

I just want to say I understand how you feel my mom doesn't take care of her dogs the way I care for my dogs. She has very little interaction with them also. I know exactly what you are feeling. I did talk her into at least feeding hers 4Health from Tractor Supply so I feel as if I made a little progress with her.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I said that IF his parents do not have dementia then there is nothing that can be done to over ride their decision. The OP said his parents are in their late fifties. Ever hear of early onset Alzheimers? Some of you people know how to take a thread off topic and make a fuss about nothing.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think a GSD and a lab are two different animals. A lab was designed and originally bred as a hunting dog. The German Shepherd dog, as a herding dog/military dog/guard dog.

Compare and contrast labs and GSDs:

1. Labs top the AKC litter and puppy registrations every month consistently, by an approximate factor of 3, ie if 1500 GSD litters were registered, 4500 lab litters were registered. This has been the case for years. And yet GSDs are higher on the bite list than labs are. Why? Because as a breed, a German Shepherd's wiring is such that they will be as a whole more likely to resort to teeth than the lab.

2. Herding dog, hunting dog. A hunting/retrieving dog uses its instincts to find game and retrive game. They do this in the field and in the water. This is mostly instinctual. Some obedience training is helpful. A herding dog is designed to work with their owner to move sheep from here to there, guarding them from dangers like traffic, keeping them out of the corn, protecting them from predators. He has to use his ability to reason, and decide how best to get the sheep to do what he wants. This is a dog with a lot of capacity. 

3. I do not know about the required bond between human and canine for hunting, but for herding, military, k9, service, the bond between the dog and the handler is very complex requiring trust on both sides. I think this tends to make our shepherds a bit more dependent on their person, knowing where their person is, what their person is doing, what their person is eating, whether their person will give them some -- I think labs have that part too. 

I think GSDs can be effective farm dogs if there is plenty to keep them busy. So it depends on the farm. If most of what the dog does is wonder around an empty barn yard, and fields, I think the shep will get bored fast and find something more exciting to do. If on the other hand the shep, brings in the cows for milking, etc, I think there might be enough company, stuff to do for the dog. I would not leave my dog loose on 100 acres, but people do,


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I wouldn't recommend a lab to be left outdoors all day without human interaction. I have a lab and he love's to be with the "pack." Labs are also very intelligent dogs. GSD's are rated as the third smartest dogs in the world, but labs are not far behind-they come in at number 5. Intelligent dogs need and deserve more mental stimulation than what the OP's parents are willing to provide.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I said that IF his parents do not have dementia then there is nothing that can be done to over ride their decision. The OP said his parents are in their late fifties. Ever hear of early onset Alzheimers? Some of you people know how to take a thread off topic and make a fuss about nothing.


Hmmm, early onset Alzheimers, yeah, I never heard it was contagious though. Most of the people I know who have had that the spouse was not affected. 

If your parents are certifiable, yeah, you have to make a lot of decisions for them, but I do not think there was anything about that in the original post, ie, my dad has early onse alzheimers and my mom is bi-polar. That would definitely make a difference.

No, I think we take offense to the statement about 50 being OLD. 

And gee if only I knew that I gave my parents Cujo, as a puppy when they were mid sixties.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I said that IF his parents do not have dementia then there is nothing that can be done to over ride their decision. The OP said his parents are in their late fifties. Ever hear of early onset Alzheimers? Some of you people know how to take a thread off topic and make a fuss about nothing.


Somehow their previous lab did just fine being an outside farm dog.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

selzer said:


> Hmmm, early onset Alzheimers, yeah, I never heard it was contagious though. Most of the people I know who have had that the spouse was not affected.
> 
> If your parents are certifiable, yeah, you have to make a lot of decisions for them, but I do not think there was anything about that in the original post, ie, my dad has early onse alzheimers and my mom is bi-polar. That would definitely make a difference.
> 
> ...


You are missing the sarcasm in my post when I said ONLY IF this were the case could you make these decisions for them.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

selzer said:


> Somehow their previous lab did just fine being an outside farm dog.


A GSD would do just fine also, they are named German SHEPHERDS because they were originally bred to HERD, as I saw you mentioned in a previous post. BUT this doesn't make it right for either breed. So I know someone who keeps their GSD tied to a dog house all day and he is 9 years old already, so he is surviving but should I recommend that he get another GSD because his other one "made it just fine?"


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I don't think I went off about your dementia statement, I was going off the person saying that Yes, 50 is OLD. 

Well once upon a time, I thought 21 was over the hill. I have been pushing that hill and pushing that hill. Every time I reach a new milestone I push the hill. 

There is a poster on here that thinks they should take the decision out of the parents hands because they are in their fifties.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> A GSD would do just fine also, they are named German SHEPHERDS because they were originally bred to HERD, as I saw you mentioned in a previous post. BUT this doesn't make it right for either breed. So I know someone who keeps their GSD tied to a dog house all day and he is 9 years old already, so he is surviving but should I recommend that he get another GSD because his other one "made it just fine?"


It WOULD be just fine if the dog was herding all day. If the dog went out every day with the owner and moved three hundred sheep out to the fields and kept them together and worked them, and then came home with the owner, it would be perfectly fine for the owner to then provide food and water and leave the dog outside for the night. 

That would be an IDEAL life for a GSD. 

What would not be right about that? 

Perfect. 

But just leaving the dog to its own devices for extended hours, well that is kind of asking for trouble with a GSD.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

You're probably not going to change your parents mind. As long as the breed they pick is physically suited to being outside it's going to adjust, dogs are pretty adaptable. The sad thing is, they don't socialize their dogs so picking the right breed becomes harder. 

I guess there really isn't much you can do except hope they change their mind about getting a dog...or surprise them with a beagle puppy.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

What makes me sad is that there are 'breeders' who will sell their puppies to homes that will treat the dogs like this. 

You could probably find a farm dog on CL or something. Could you at least possibly try and talk them into an older dog? It's not fair for a puppy to be out by themselves like that, when they need socialization and fun.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Going in another direction - I have seen people make absolute idiots of themselves with small dogs. People who would never let an outside dog in  , carry these little balls of fluff around, dress them, wipe their little paws, have litter boxes for them, etc. Which I think is great. 

Of course this is not a dog that they can in the future decide to put out. 

But I would continue to point out the benefits of being dog free-
Not having to worry if they want to go on vacation
No meds/vetting
Well...I guess you lose some of the negatives if you keep a dog outside...I am sure there are more

Maybe encourage them to look at traveling for a while first, replacement activities that will keep them away from dogs. 

They wouldn't even have a puppy in the house at first?


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

selzer said:


> Somehow their previous lab did just fine being an outside farm dog.


No, he didn't. That's why I'm posting. He had health problems and was crazy lonely. You could tell. He'd sit by the windows and stare into the house. I don't want another dog to have to go through that.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Can they get a breed that doesn't mind being an outside dog?

I have known a total of 7 outside Akitas. They do great outside.

Siberian Husky or Malamute?


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> They wouldn't even have a puppy in the house at first?


No. My mom is really neat-freakish about her house. They may let it sleep in a box in the basement if it were really little and it was cold outside. The last time they had a pup I slept in the basement on the freaking cement floor with it so that the pup could settle down and go to sleep. So they'd probably let it sleep in the basement for a few weeks, but I don't see them sleeping down there with it. 

Also, let me clear up any misconceptions about my original post. I do not think that my parents are incompetent. I do not think that I can make decisions for them. I DO think that dogs deserve a life where they get to interact with their people for more than 15 or 20 minutes a day. That is why I posted. Not to bash my parents or anyone older than I am. That is absurd and in no way did I hint that people older than me are ignorant or decrepit.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Minnieski, I'm with you...I have Zoey (weasel terrier) because I wasn't a jerk to my mother when I fostered her.
*Note if I foster again; NO FAMILY
Mom wanted her and I figured that mom used to be great with dogs. mom was almost retired, lived alone (widowed) and thought it would be ok due to having a pup would be good for her. Get mom out, help with depression etc. 

Nope, totally backfired on me.
I will go to my grave regretting not telling my mother no. 
It wasn't age...it was state of mind. Towards the end of my mother's life (last 6 years or so) she would actually forget to open the door to let the dog go out. Zoey was an opposite dog of what you have with your parents. Instead of being outside, she never got outside. 
I have an elevenish (spinal tap..."goes to eleven") reactive barker. Spoiled little dog (old lady syndrome). That I had to re-crate train.
It got to the point to I knew the enevitable was going to happen with my mom...she was an out of control diabetic. 
So what was I going to do take a sick widowed old lady's dog away from her. No, I just waited and had my mistake come live with us when she passed.

I do think that being a total neat freak with white carpeting should prevent you from owning a dog.
It's not abusive leaving it outside and feeding it crap food...but it is neglegent.
Why have a dog? Get motion sensors and booby traps if you live in the booniewamps and want to feel protected.

*I just turned 44 yesterday and other half is **** old...62 but we are pretty active....I didn't take offense to the "old" 
*grin* I like sitting on my porch and shaking my fist at the kids "DARN KIDS!!!! GETOFFAMYPROPERTY!!!!!"


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> Can they get a breed that doesn't mind being an outside dog?
> 
> I have known a total of 7 outside Akitas. They do great outside.
> 
> Siberian Husky or Malamute?


All great breeds and all capable of living outside with shelter...but they all need to be socialized and trained and it doesn't sound like the OP's parents do that.

I wouldn't trust an untrained, undersocialized Akita or Mal. Put a Siberian Husky out in wide open fields and he'll be off, running and long gone before you can say "I should have bought a kennel".


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## irongrl (May 24, 2010)

Minnieski said:


> Also, let me clear up any misconceptions about my original post. I do not think that my parents are incompetent. I do not think that I can make decisions for them. I DO think that dogs deserve a life where they get to interact with their people for more than 15 or 20 minutes a day. That is why I posted. Not to bash my parents or anyone older than I am. That is absurd and in no way did I hint that people older than me are ignorant or decrepit.


 
I'm sorry your thread got derailed. I totally agree with you and I would feel the same if I were in your situation. There wasn't anything in your original post that was derogatory. I think someone started making comments about people in their 50's being old. That was unnecessary and offensive to many of us. Hopefully your thread will stay on topic now.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

opcorn:


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

CarrieJ said:


> Why have a dog? Get motion sensors and booby traps if you live in the booniewamps and want to feel protected.


Agreed!


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

People always taking threads off topic....

opcorn:

lol!


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Hey! Better yet, talk your parents into renting a room to a Navy Seal or someother elite military person.
They'd be very neat, clean, disciplined, your parents wouldn't have to feed he/she and they'd feel protected. And, he/she could rig up the motion sensors and booby traps.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Tihannah said:


> I believe this man just turned 50?? They can send his old butt to me!! I'll tuck him in REAL good every night! Make sure he gets his vitamins and everything!!


 
LOL!!!!! I will happily change his diaper.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Minnieski said:


> Yes, but this dog will get very little interaction during the colder months, when my parents feed the dog from out of the sliding door. If my dad were still retired it would be different, but he is working a lot of hours now. Sigh. I give up.
> 
> Question -
> Would everyone still be giving me the same responses if they were interested in a GSD? Just curious.


 
I truly do not see a big issue, so your parents want an outside dog? So what, just because YOU prefer your dogs inside does not make it a bad life for a dog, I personally have a German Shepherd that lives on my little ranch outside 24/7 as well, why? because she LOVES to be outside, she is a very active, nosy, happy high energy girl that does not appreciate being kept like a hothouse flower, she is a ranch dog, she loves it, I love it, she keeps an eye on my horses and my property while I am not home, the best of both worlds for both of us, she enjoys hanging with me when I am home from work , but she also enjoys her freedom when I am at work, I personally am NOT an advocate of crating my dogs for endless hours on end when I am not home, I personally find that a cruel way for them to spend their day, but here again that is MY OPINION, I am not going to chastise or criticise any people that do, we each have our own ideas about raising dogs, no one way is more correct over the other, as long as a dog is provided with food, shelter and love, I don't see a problem.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

However, judging by all the letters after your dog's name makes it apparent that you do spend time with her.

No dog that is ignored until supper time and fed($8 per 40#bag food) through a sliding glass door and spends ten years of it's life with no outside stimulus or engagement with it's "pack" family, whatever you want to call it will get letters after their name.

There is a fine line between spending hours in a crate which after 7 months or so...you shouldn't have to do and getting a dog just to say that you have one. 
Which I believe the OP's parents basically do. They had a dog that never came in the house...was fearful of strangers and they assumed it was protecting them. Not a good life for any breed. Heck even the Innuit sled dogs who spend their whole lives outside sleeping in snow still get pack and human stimulus.

It sounds more with your dog, that you are engaging her mind and her body; therefore she's a happy confident girl doing what she was bred for.
*I wasn't trying to be snarky...so apologies for translating mind to internet*


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

The dog with the titles is a different dog, he likes to be in and out, more out, my female is not, she gets up and goes to the door everytime I get up or move in the house, dogs are all different, and there is nothing wrong with letting them live outside if they enjoy it, I do spend a lot of time with her outside, because I spend a lot of time outside with both the dogs and my horses, but again, I don't feel it is a bad life to have a dog living outside as long as all their needs are met, if they truly just open the door to toss food out, than, well that is sad, not even my horses would thrive on that type of interaction.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

See that's a bit different.
My uncle had ranch dogs on his dairy ranch...and they never saw the inside of a finished house. They had barns and such, but they were ranch and a few hunting dogs. But, they still had pack/human stimulus. 
They had to be, you can't have a ranch dog attacking hands that work on the ranch especially out of fear or biting milk cows...(that's money$$$)

If summer ever gets here I actually have to make my girls come in. Alice (GSD) will spend all day and night in her pool if I let her. 
Something about the dog coming in the house at night after playing in her pool (at 10:00 PM) and shaking off annoys me.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Yep, my Shepherds swim in the horse troughs in summer, we live in the desert and they have a multitude of swimming options, I let them find where they are coolest, they love the barn aisle the best.


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