# Tucker Saga Cont, the search begins. (How to properly rehome?)



## chelle

Thank you to anyone and everyone that has followed the whole saga with Tucker, the guy who wasn't supposed to stay. 

(Started here: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...needed-my-dogs-littermate-headed-shelter.html )

I'm going to ramble a minute and then talk about (ask about) how to do this rehoming thing properly.. and talk about the results I'm getting.

Maybe this post is also about me and how I need to vent.

I love this dog. Adore him. Would keep him forever, had issues not cropped up between his brother and him. Tucker still wants to play with Bailey, but Bailey is being a jerk. It hurts my heart to see Tucker submit so to Bailey. He shouldn't have to live that way. Shouldn't have to live in a rotate and crate life. Shouldn't have to live in fear. He deserves so much more.

He is not purebred, but he is .. nice. Just has such a sweet and cool disposition that anyone who meets him likes him. You cannot "not" like him. He's just "that" kind of dog.

I will give up pieces of my heart to see him go. Big chunks. I didn't want to keep him, then I desperately did, and now I know I just can't probably do it.

So... first I posted a CL ad and received two responses. One offered to let him live on a farm. Um, no. Second was interesting and I'm still talking to them, but probably a "no." Second CL ad resulted in someone saying they "needed dog for heart." Um, ok. The one rescue I contacted declined a courtesy post, since they've never met him. Another rescue sends dogs off sight-unseen. (can't do that.)

Then a friend of a friend replied to a fb post about this, and I will meet that family tomorrow. Has some promising aspects to it.

If you're someone who prays, could you be so kind to send one up that I can find a super, duper awesome and fantastic home for this guy? 

~~

Ok, rant over. Let's get down to business.

I received this reply tonight from the person who I'd considered a reasonable one to pursue and who I've exchanged several+ emails with:

_"We are interested in meeting Tucker but I guess I should ask about your rehoming fee first. I would hate to meet him and fall in love and then be deterred by that. I know it includes a bunch of stuff but we weren't looking to spend a great deal for him or any other dog we choose. We got Rusty for free so we know if we're patient we can find the right dog for us. That being said we understand why you would want something for him and the other things you would be sending with him."_

Am I wrong for feeling a little offput by this?

Truth is, I won't ask a dime for Tucker, but I am saying there *is* a fee on CL to potentially weed things out. I guess it is reasonable of a person to ask about these things when the potential meeting time is coming up, but if it were ME, I probably wouldn't. I don't know, what do you think?


----------



## Sunflowers

So if he needs to go to the vet, will they say they don't want to spend? I dunno, Chelle... looks like a red flag to me.


----------



## Blanketback

Is that reply from the friend of a friend you mentioned in the other thread? Or just a random CL stranger? That makes a big difference in how I respond.


----------



## chelle

Sunflowers said:


> So if he needs to go to the vet, will they say they don't want to spend? I dunno, Chelle... looks like a *red flag* to me.


That's my thought, too. I don't know how/what to respond to with that.

In our earlier conversations, they told me all about their other dog who had hip issues and how they had tried to prolong his life with surgeries... 



Blanketback said:


> Is that reply from the friend of a friend you mentioned in the other thread? Or just a random CL stranger? That makes a big difference in how I respond.


No, this is a CL person. The friend of a friend thing -- I never told my friend I was asking for money and the person has not brought the issue up, either. Maybe they're both assuming he is "free," which he is...

~~~

How should I respond?


----------



## onyx'girl

I would NOT post him on CL! I would try to find a responsible rescue to help you in placing him. Please.....for Tuckers well being, take him off CL. Even if you have to pay the rescue to help....let someone who isn't so emotionally involved help you find his forever home.


----------



## Blanketback

Then in that case I say run for the hills. I don't like the way it's written, and I don't trust people enough to think the best. Poor jaded me, lol. Everybody always warns that you never give an animal away for free, sad to say that this keeps the sickos out of the running. What a terrible commentary on the human race, huh? I know you're not planning on charging anything, but that's not the point.


----------



## gsdraven

Chelle, wait for the right adopter and you will know it when it comes along.

A rehoming fee is a must. References are a must. Adoption contract is a must. Home visit is a must. 

I have done 1 personal rehome (dog started out with a rescue but I split from the rescue and they "forgot" all about the dog). Do the normal process and if it doesn't feel right, wait. Feel free to PM me if you need help with reference checks or contracts.


----------



## msvette2u

> I know it includes a bunch of stuff but we weren't looking to spend a great deal for him or any other dog we choose.


*Delete.*

Now.

LOL

CL can be used. FTR I found and read your ad. It's very nice, well put together.

DO use the application and an agreement as well. I wouldn't NOT use CL but I'd screen more heavily due to that.

People who are worried about $$$ only deter ME.

And ask a fee. It would be $150. He's neutered, chipped, vaccinated, etc. If they started that and had to themselves it'd be way more than $150!

He'd be $150-200 here @ our rescue.


----------



## onyx'girl

Why not petfinder classifieds? edit; I now see they are no longer available...
I think it is a step above CL...not sure why, other than people have to click around a bit harder! CL just has an attraction of people who are looking for freebies(and their motives aren't always in the animals best interest).
Hope Jamie can help you!


----------



## chelle

onyx'girl said:


> I would NOT post him on CL! I would try to find a responsible rescue to help you in placing him. Please.....for Tuckers well being, take him off CL. Even if you have to pay the rescue to help....let someone who isn't so emotionally involved help you find his forever home.


Jane, I sure wish I wasn't having to turn to CL.

I will contact more rescues, but the truth is, they are so overloaded and their first allegience is to the purebreds. The only one I found that was really sincere and did backgrounds and such also was nationwide, and dogs went to transport to new homes. 

Most simply do not respond at all. 

Petfinder doesn't allow personal classifieds anymore, but the only thing I got from them was foreign scammers anyway.

Like the farm person and the other wierdo, I just replied with my application. Not suprisingly, no response and that's just fine by me!


----------



## chelle

I'm kinda using this thread for dual purposes -- all things adoption related as well as for my own "journey." I am mentally working on all of this.. doing this thing I don't want to do.

Sorry to confuse things.

Revisiting him first coming here; crazy, outdoor dog with that horrible ring around his neck, lifting his leg on my recliner because he wasn't housebroken, knocking me over jumping on me, giving me a goose egg once knocking me into a wall when he could NOT be trusted with a human on the floor, charging his crate & the door .... -- (first day home) --




 
And some fun we had tonight -- (yeah, plenty of handling errors, but it wasn't about that.) --




 

Ok, thanks, needed to do that. It is cathartic to me, to do this. Thank you for letting me, talking to me and helping me.


----------



## martemchik

Just an observation...in my opinion if I'm going to help someone out (like you) and take a dog into my home that you couldn't handle (life situation wise) I would also not expect to pay a dime for that dog. In my eyes if I pay a fee to a rescue or a shelter I'm not paying for that dog...I'm donating money so they can continue doing what they do for other dogs.

Paying money, for an older dog, that someone wants to rehome for whatever reason, sounds a lot like "I want to recoup some of the money I've shoved into this dog" rather than "I'm going to continue giving other animals a great home."

And chelle...this is just my opinion. I know you did everything you could for this dog and this is just how things turned out. I definitely support your decision but if I were to be a potential adopter I wouldn't want to give you any money I would expect you to just be happy with the dog getting a good home. And I know that is what you expect, but if I were connected to you like this fb person was...I'd probably send an email like that just to make sure you weren't expecting money.


----------



## msvette2u

IMO, as long as someone has taken the dog, neutered or spayed, vaccinated, and all that other good stuff, I am making an "investment" of sorts by paying them (probably nowhere close to what they spent). 
The reason I say this is...if I have to take the dog to the vet and do it myself, then I'm going to be spending at least that much.

AND...after doing rescue for the past 6yrs. as an actual rescue, IME, a person who doesn't want to pay up front for a dog, probably won't pay for it to see a vet when that same dog is sick, and won't pay for yearly visits.

$150 is a minimal fee; if you know anything about vetting dogs, you know you're lucky to get out of there under $100 for a regular visit which includes a vaccine or a prescription. So...the way I see it, if they can't cough up $100-150 to adopt a dog, they probably shouldn't have a dog.


----------



## chelle

martemchik said:


> .... but if I were to be a potential adopter I wouldn't want to give you any money I would expect you to just be happy with the dog getting a good home. And I know that is what you expect, but if I were connected to you like this fb person was...I'd probably send an email like that just to make sure you weren't expecting money.


I would expect the same. I think it is just her phrasing that puts me off... the part about "hey, we didn't pay for Rusty..." and "we know we can find a free dog if we wait long enough..." (paraphrased)

I'm comparing what I would do and think as with someone else. I would "assume" (dangerous), that if someone went to the time to post a long ad, require an app, etc and so on.. that their best interests were about the dog's welfare and not about money. 

What should I respond with, if at all? We've had days worth of exchanging emails and this is the first turn-off that's come along...


----------



## msvette2u

It's your dog. But if, and again this is my opinion, they don't value him now, they won't value him when he's their pet.
OH, yeah. They may treat him nice and all but when push comes to shove, their $$ will stay in their pocket where they wanna keep it apparently.

What application are you using to screen??


----------



## Blanketback

Those are really sweet videos chelle. Umm, the childish brat in me wanted to see him peeing on your chair though - what a letdown, lol! I don't know if you ever think "all things happen for a reason" but I'd say that this really applies here. Tucker is going to make someone very very happy, with all your hard work transforming him from delinquent dog he was into what he is today.


----------



## msvette2u

Martem is perfectly justified in her line of thought, to each their own.

And we run across 'em all in rescue. I hear that sentiment often, in fact. 
"A rescued dog is someone else's discarded pet, so why would I spend any $$ for it??"
Or "I wouldn't drive 3 hours to RESCUE a dog  "


----------



## chelle

msvette2u said:


> It's your dog. But if, and again this is my opinion, they don't value him now, they won't value him when he's their pet.
> OH, yeah. They may treat him nice and all but when push comes to shove, their $$ will stay in their pocket where they wanna keep it apparently.
> 
> *What application are you using to screen*??


Something I made up on my own... which is clearly lacking --

Name:
Address:
City/State/Zip:
Phone:
Your age:
Are you okay with me coming to visit your home?
Have you owned a dog? What kind?  How many? Please tell me about any/all your dogs.
Do you still have them? If no, why not?
Do you have a fenced yard? If yes, describe your fencing: (how tall, chain link or privacy, etc.) 
If no, will you install Invisible Fencing or a hotwire?
Who are the other members of your household? 
Humans ? (and ages)
Other pets? (and ages)
Are the other members of the household all “on board” with adopting a dog?
Can you devote daily exercise sessions?
Do you intend to take Tucker to any kind of classes?
Have you ever taken a dog thru any kind of training classes?
What is your training philosophy? Would you hit/smack a dog for not doing what you want it to do? 
Will Tucker live indoors with the family?
Are you willing to keep in touch with texts, pictures, etc?
Are you willing to return Tucker if something does not work out?
Thank you for taking the time to complete this application. It may appear as intrusive, but it is truly about the best welfare for the dog. He is a beloved family member and his best, best, best interests are all that is at heart here.
“No” responses are not necessarily an automatic fail. I am looking for honesty and integrity in the responses. Tucker, as said before, is a very highly cherished family member and his best interests are all that matter to me. I can work with a person who exhibits a true desire to give this boy a good, happy, well balanced home no matter what may be on this application. Thank you for taking the time to care about Tucker enough to do this.


----------



## Blanketback

How serious is the fb woman? Maybe you don't have to go through all this if her home turns out to be the perfect one.

And I'd say $xxx negotiable, and then you can choose to be as generous as you want, if the home is perfect. Or does that seem weird? Just don't say free, unless it's a friend.


----------



## msvette2u

Heh, I emailed you


----------



## Freestep

To be honest, even though it's against the rules, a lot of people sell dogs on Craigslist. They will say something like "reasonable rehoming fee", but then not specify the amount. When you contact the person, they tell you their "reasonable rehoming fee" is $300. That's why they didn't list it in the ad--they'd get flagged off if they did.

So, these people that contacted you may just be trying to make sure you aren't selling a dog.

However, it's equally likely that they are cheap, and will feed cheap dog food, eschew veterinary care, etc. Frugality is a great thing, as long as they are willing and able to provide for a dog's needs. 

I think the key is that people know you will be making a home visit to see where the dog will be living. You should also ask for veterinary and personal references. If anyone balks at these requirements, they've pretty much weeded themselves out. A good potential adopter should have nothing to hide.


----------



## chelle

Blanketback said:


> Those are really sweet videos chelle. Umm, the childish brat in me wanted to see him peeing on your chair though - what a letdown, lol! I don't know if you ever think "all things happen for a reason" but I'd say that this really applies here. Tucker is going to make someone very very happy, with all your hard work transforming him from delinquent dog he was into what he is today.


Yeah, after I quit video-ing, he raised his leg. Like hey, cool, I'm gonna pee here, seems like a great spot. I still remember thinking, oh ****, she wasn't lying, he really is not housebroken! Thankfully housebreaking him was pretty easy. Easier than anything else for sure!


----------



## msvette2u

> However, it's equally likely that they are cheap, and will feed cheap dog food, eschew veterinary care, etc. Frugality is a great thing, as long as they are willing and able to provide for a dog's needs.


We have the questions on there about food they feed, and also a place to list their vet reference which we call and make sure regular vet care was given, but also if the vet recommended, for instance, a dental procedure, it was done.

Let me tell you why I'd decline this current person. 

We got in a dog early in our rescue days, that had oro-nasal fistulas from dental decay. Probably they fed Kibbles n Bits or something, I don't know. At 3, her teeth were falling out of her head! Holes all the way through her gums to her nose. SO awful.
Anyway, they used the same vet we did, and when we got this poor girl, they told us, they'd recommended a dental on her, and the owners said, "We have never done that on a dog and are not going to start now!"

And that's what that email reminds me of...


----------



## GatorBytes

I think this person read your app. and said, hm...I think we can negotiate this down. Play our cards right maybe nothing...sounds like they are looking for a really good home - so will play on this, tell all kinds of "what they want to hear" (easy - almost what any person wants to hear about a beloved family member)..."not in any hurry" plenty of dogs up for adoption - free and otherwise...like going in to buy a car - if you show you don't need it but are considering - lets see what kind of deal we can get...

That's one scenario

Another could be for other intended use. so many strange people out there (to put mildly)...

What I don't like is the manipulative undertone this has...

If you are questioning /strange feeling then trust your intuition...

What a hard thing to have to do.


----------



## msvette2u

Especially since the ad states the dogs aren't getting along, it puts a sense of urgency on it a bit...

Maybe that's what ruffled my feathers, gator...I don't know but the way they say it really puts a sour taste in my mouth.


----------



## msvette2u

> The one rescue I contacted declined a courtesy post, since they've never met him. Another rescue sends dogs off sight-unseen. (can't do that.)


BTW. When I say "courtesy post", or when I do one for someone, what I generally do is, list ALL over the ad "Please contact [email protected]" and/or their phone number if they want me to put that too.

I am NOT the contact, I am NOT the screener and I make it plain that it's a courtesy post and they'll need to screen the home themselves.

An option for you, if you don't want to keep the adoption fee yourself, is to donate the fee to the shelter who lists him for you.

I don't know about over there, but if someone over here said they'd donate the adoption fee they got for their dog, I'd sure be in a hurry to get it listed!! It helps them out greatly and helps US out and that's a good relationship, IMO!


----------



## CeCe

I don't like the way they worded their reply. Tell them if that they are the right fit then he is $200 to cover his neuter and chip. That's a very reasonable fee for a young, handsome dog that has already had some training. 
Do you have time to put a CGC title on him? That could help him get adopted. I'll be praying for him to find a good home.


----------



## msvette2u

CeCe said:


> I don't like the way they worded their reply. Tell them if that they are the right fit then he is $200 to cover his neuter and chip. That's a very reasonable fee for a young, handsome dog that has already had some training.
> Do you have time to put a CGC title on him? That could help him get adopted. I'll be praying for him to find a good home.


:thumbup:

That'll ascertain real quick if they are serious about him or not.
I'm sorry but if they balk at a fee, they aren't serious about wanting him. They just want a cheap or free dog and to me, that spells "not real committed".


----------



## GatorBytes

msvette2u said:


> Especially since the ad states the dogs aren't getting along, it puts a sense of urgency on it a bit...
> 
> Maybe that's what ruffled my feathers, gator...I don't know but the way they say it really puts a sour taste in my mouth.





CeCe said:


> I don't like the way they worded their reply. Tell them if that they are the right fit then he is $200 to cover his neuter and chip. That's a very reasonable fee for a young, handsome dog that has already had some training.
> Do you have time to put a CGC title on him? That could help him get adopted. I'll be praying for him to find a good home.


Yeah. I scrunched my nose at that....like an inside Huh?

Perhaps tell this person that you have a number of people to screen and what an arduous process with all the home inspections, the time, gas expence, meetings with perspective owners vets to review...(heavy sigh)...play him right back. If he's seriously looking for the right dog - will appreciate...if looking for a free dog...he'll find that too...perhaps note that in next correspondance


----------



## JakodaCD OA

I may have missed it on your app, I would want VET references and check them out.

I would want to visit the home prior, are the CL people close? 

While I'm rather put off by their reply, it doesn't necessarily mean they could be a bad home, I would rather do some one on one to more thoroughly access. 

You can get alot out of meeting the WHOLE family, their living situation and references..


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I hope you've PM'd GSDRaven. 

Like people are saying:

1. Application: German Shepherd Rescue of New England Inc has a lot of information on rehoming a dog on their website and materials you can use. Please look at it. Placing Your Own (there are a few pages of do you really have to, which you can skip)

2. References: Vet, 2 personal, minimum - I would also try calling their dog control person - though they may not be able to give you information, if they can, you might get important information. You need to know what to ask though - I am thinking Jamie is helping you with this if you've PM'd her. 

3. Home check: absolutely positively needed. 

4. Contract: again, needed. 

5. Examples of courtesy posts: NONBDBHDogs

Agree on the rehoming fee. 

In rescue, not listed on Craig's List (that probably gives a higher volume of responses) it might take 20-30 inquiries to find the right adopter for a dog. It can take months - depending on the dog and their needs, to find that match. That's from using Petfinder, which he would probably be listed on if he were courtesy posted by rescue. 

Keep updating!


----------



## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

A special prayer for Tucker to find his forever home. I know St. Francis is the patron of aniamls but I'll hit up St. Anthony too.I think the reply is a little off putting too.


----------



## x0emiroxy0x

I posted Roxy on craigslist in San Marcos, Austin, and San Antonio.

The first three days I had over 22 replies and within the next two weeks and additional 20. It has been a month and a half and people are still emailing me.

The emails ranged from:

"Hi, I really want this dog, it would live outside with my chickens and my four other dogs but I don't like to take them to the vet just so you know"

To the one I chose:

"Hi. We read your post about Roxy and think she has found her forever home. We have a border collie that we rescued already and we would need to have them meet on neutral ground first to make sure it works out so we don't have to rehome her a week later. I read your list of what she needs in an owner and we are it. We are female partners so she won't have to be around men a lot. We read about her issues too, and my partner is a veterinary technician and knows a lot of trainers and behavioralists. We would get her started on this right away. If you could meet tomorrow, we would love the chance to see her. Do you have her shot records?"

They were amazing and fell in love with Roxy right away. They still send me emails and pictures of her.

Don't put down craigslist, just weed through carefully. And NEVER let someone come to your house to meet the dog...always meet in a public place and bring someone with you.


----------



## x0emiroxy0x

PS>> I did not have an application. After they read the initial post, me and my boyfriend and my friend that helped rescue her met them in person and asked all of these questions in person to get a better feel.

Also, in my craigslist post, I flaunted all of her good traits but I did not hide a single bad trait. I put on there that "when she sees other dogs on walks she will all but choke herself to get to them. She will cry and whine and basically go crazy. How I fix this is I got a harness and ............. however, she still has issues and she will need to be trained DAILY. If you cannot train daily she is not the dog for you" I also put "she is not aggressive in any way but is scared to death of men when in a small situation, including submissive pee at times. I have slowly decreased her fear but it still exists. You will need to train her daily or every other day and get a behavioralist if you don't know about this behavior or you won't be able to have male friends over"

I was blatantly honest and it worked out--the couple said my post was the longest they have ever read on craigslist and they could tell how much I cared about Roxy and that she must be well taken care of.


----------



## Blanketback

Roxy's story is very encouraging - all you need is the opportunity to meet the right person. Maybe widen the search? You could make a flyer and put it up in pet stores and vet offices. Since Tucker is white, he'd be easy to draw - and he sure does have some cute expressions to copy! You could make it catchy so people would stop to read it. Something like: Wanted to trade - all the love you could ever ask for in return for caring forever home....ok, that's off the top of my head, but you get the idea.


----------



## Magwart

I know that it's hard to let a potential adopter go after you've already talked to them or emailed with them a bunch, and everything seemed like it was going so well...until that weird thing about not wanting to pay. It's natural to get emotionally invested in the hope that "this is the one." What you did, though, was successfully flush out a _problem _with that potential adopter -- you were able early in the process to get them to reveal that they are _not _the sort of home you would feel comfortable with. Mission accomplished, move on.

A lot of us I'm sure have gotten all the way to the home check and had something happen that just didn't feel right. With my last foster, I _twice _backed out of potential adoptions with adopters who were _perfect _on paper, on the phone, and in meet-and-greets. After I visited their homes, things came up that made me unwilling to place the dog. One had a very territorial undisclosed dog who wanted to eat my foster. The other had told me he had an enclosed yard and I found huge gaps the dog would have escaped through the first time he let her out to pee...and he lived next to a busy interstate onramp, so my girl would have been road-kill. Both times, I was _sure _we'd found the right person for her...finally. Both times, I owed it to her to say "no" to the adopter. Eventually the right one did come along.

When you find the right one, there will be no warning bells. As I mentioned before in the other thread, I don't even talk to potential adopters who contact me off CL until they fill out my lengthy application. About 3/4 of CL inquiries never respond to the request for an app. For the ones that do, I know they are serious, and we have a good starting point to talk based on their answers to the app.

Do you need an application form?


----------



## martemchik

Ok...if this person that responded with that statement is one from CL its a bit difficult to really figure them out. But if its the friend of a friend from Facebook you might be able to get some information on them. Talk to your friend and see if they really know them. I know that sometimes living situation or net income doesn't translate perfectly to a pet's living condition, but more likely than not a pet living in a family with money will be taken care of better than one that doesn't (and I know this isn't always the case as many people have very little and will spend it all on their pet anyways).

Sometimes you'll get people that don't want to put in that original investment but once they fall in love they'll do anything for that pet. Like I said, there are a lot of different opinions on what people expect when rescuing a pet. A lot of the advice from the rescue/shelter people on here is very good...but I'm talking strictly from the point of view of a potential adopter (will be adopting in a year). I don't think $150 is unreasonable at all...I'd pay that in a heart beat, but at the same time I'd trust a rescue or other organization over a private citizen. For every person that's trying to do good by their animal...there are 99 idiots that just want to make a buck or think they're giving you a discount on a puppy.

Let's be serious...if we didn't know what you've gone through with this dog, the kind of person you are, didn't go through the last few months of updates on your situation, and you came on the forum and posted a "rehoming" thread or even just asked a question about rehoming a dog, you'd be getting way different responses and most likely be very negatively judged. So someone responding to your CL ad...or seeing it...is going to think just that...you're more than likely one of the 99 and not the one trying to do good by the dog, so why would I pay you anything?


----------



## Blanketback

Tucker is healthy, up to date with shots, neutered. He comes with food, toys, a crate, collar (one's a prong), all vet records and for crying out loud even an electric fence! Seriously, what's all that worth? $1000 or more? If someone doesn't know the value of all that, then either that person is clueless or living in the dark ages. Not good enough for Tucker, that's for sure.


----------



## Rerun

A word of warning - IMHO, when you post things like "stop reading now if you are going to make him an outdoor dog" (paraphrased), it can make people lie. There are many people who don't have a problem with outdoor dogs, and may for whatever reason really take a liking to your boy based on the pictures/ad. They already know right away you won't adopt him to them if they plan to make him an outdoor dog, so they lie to get him and then what - nothing you can do about it.

JMHO but I wouldn't include the usual list of "you can't do this and this and this, and you must do this and that and this." It breeds dishonesty, because they already know the answers you want to hear. You want to make it an open conversation - ask questions that don't lead them to know the answer you're seeking.


----------



## x0emiroxy0x

I said there was a 200 rehoming fee for Roxy because when we rescued her we had to pay for surgery to get the collar embedded in her neck off, we had to pay for spay,food,collar,leash,harness,6 months of heartworm and flea medicine, rabies, bordatella, kennel cough, canine influenze, etc.

When we met them and realized they were THE home for her, they started to pull out the money and I told them "Go buy her a ton of treats instead!" 

I didn't want the money, I just put that on there to make sure they were serious.

Also, I gave them her kennel, leash, collar, harness, 6 months of heartworm/flea medicine, and the name and number of my trainer and vet.


----------



## GatorBytes

Rerun said:


> A word of warning - IMHO, when you post things like "stop reading now if you are going to make him an outdoor dog" (paraphrased), it can make people lie. There are many people who don't have a problem with outdoor dogs, and may for whatever reason really take a liking to your boy based on the pictures/ad. They already know right away you won't adopt him to them if they plan to make him an outdoor dog, so they lie to get him and then what - nothing you can do about it.
> 
> JMHO but I wouldn't include the usual list of "you can't do this and this and this, and you must do this and that and this." It breeds dishonesty, because they already know the answers you want to hear. You want to make it an open conversation - ask questions that don't lead them to know the answer you're seeking.


 
Good advice - keep it generic


----------



## Freestep

Rerun said:


> JMHO but I wouldn't include the usual list of "you can't do this and this and this, and you must do this and that and this." It breeds dishonesty, because they already know the answers you want to hear. You want to make it an open conversation - ask questions that don't lead them to know the answer you're seeking.


That's exactly what I was going to say.

It's tricky with Craigslist. You can ask a rehoming fee, but you can't sell a pet. The difference between the two is a gray area. However, what you must do is disclose the amount of the fee in the ad. Otherwise it may get flagged as a hidden sale.

For a neutered, healthy dog UTD on vaccines, heartworm, flea tx, etc., you can realistically ask around $75. Much more than that and you risk being flagged down as a "sale". I know, it's kind of arbitrary, but since you don't actually want any money for him, the $75 acts as a deterrent for those who simply want a "free" dog to do God knows what with.

Once a potential adopter fills out your application (which I think is good, btw), ask for veterinary references, personal references, and an ok from their landlord if they are renting.


----------



## msvette2u

I sent chelle our application we use which makes it difficult for people to "lie" or figure out why we're asking what we are.
A few questions are on their in a slightly redundant fashion to help further weed things out.



> I may have missed it on your app, I would want VET references and check them out.
> 
> I would want to visit the home prior, are the CL people close?


----------



## chelle

Wow, I just read thru all the replies and thank you so much for all that *excellent* advice! There's so much good stuff in there, I can't even really individually quote anyone. 

I'm going to write a completely different ad. (My thinking was, hey put it all out there so I can lessen the "ridiculous" replies... but a person's tendency to lie, I hadn't considered.)

I'm going to contact gsdraven.

I'm going to revamp the app, using msvette's and whatever else I can find from people here who have apps.

*............. IF ! ................*

the meet with the friend of a friend is a fail. That is today at 5:30. I am so trying not to get my hopes up, she sounds so perfect! Her responses are just what I want them to be, lol. 1/2 acre 6 ft privacy fenced yard. Two kids who are super anxious about this, (boy 9 and girl 14). Many other positives. I'm such a stalker, I did a google earth on her house and she is indeed on a corner lot with a massive backyard. 

I'll certainly let you know how that meet goes!

I appreciate Magwart's comments about letting go emotionally of what you thought was going to work. That is so spot-on. I totally get it and will be very guarded in the future about that happening, even with this family I'm going to go meet.


----------



## msvette2u

Be aware that even with the best of scenarios (fenced yard, great references, long term owner) things can go wrong. We've had more than one dog brought back that it all seemed perfect, and was, up until it wasn't anymore.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

When you are thinking of this too, think of in terms of characteristics of your dog:


 Sociability
 Aggression (I don't mean that in a bad way - just what it is)
 Territoriality
 Touch/sound sensitivity
 Distractability
 Experience with everything that the home looking at them has (kids, other pets, neighbors, nannies, visitors - frequency, who, how many, activity level, supervision, relatives, dog visitors)
 Their expectations of what a dog is/does:
 Other places they go and the expectations of the dog there - parks, vacations, friend's houses with other pets, camping
 Level of behavior expected, non-negotiables for them
Philosophies of safe containment (leashes and crates)
Where the dog will sleep (again no right answer, looking for match)
Other - anyone can add one! I am sure I've missed things.
And then look to see if it is truly a match with your dog. 

Now me, when I see that there are 2 kids in a home, I multiply by 3 for each one because they will often have their friends over. Do I have a dog that would be okay, if parents walked out of the room (contrary to our contract requiring safe supervision) and 6 kids were with that dog? That kind of thinking. When grandma comes over, as she does 2x a week, will my dog break her hip because of their lack of body awareness, when they go camping, will my dog run off because they don't use leashes then and my dog is a runner...stuff like that...

You can't account for everything, there is always going to be an update where you say oh, my, I didn't know they were going to do that, but getting on the same page and ensuring match is huge.


----------



## chelle

msvette2u said:


> Be aware that even with the best of scenarios (fenced yard, great references, long term owner) things can go wrong. We've had more than one dog brought back that it all seemed perfect, and was, up until it wasn't anymore.


That's ok and I do understand that. I saved him from a shelter once and I'd do it 100 more times if I need to. I'm having him chipped today. Another $50 I don't have but it'll make me feel a little better that if he ends up jumping someone's fence or whatever and ends up at the shelter, I'll be contacted.


----------



## msvette2u

> And then look to see if it is truly a match with your dog.


GOOD post!
We often forget that the dog has to be safe/comfortable while there, as well.

Sometimes we get great adopters, but don't have a dog that would work for their situation. 
For instance, a traveling couple apply for a dog that gets carsick. 
Or a very outdoorsy, social couple apply for a shy dog. 

Generally, the fewer "expectations" a couple or family has, the better chance of the dog sticking there and working out.
If they put a bunch of "has to be good with kids, can't bark in the yard, can't dig, blahblahblah", while that's well and good, I'm not going to guarantee this dog will or won't do these things - and if they are "deal breakers", then the adoption is off.


----------



## Blanketback

I hope all goes well today. I just want to add that you should be extra sensitive with the kids. I'm sure losing their last dog must have crushed them - given their ages, they grew up with him. If they do seem distant it might just be their way of trying to protect themselves from that kind of hurt again. Good luck to all of you!


----------



## DJEtzel

If it doesn't go well today and you want a few more apps to look at, I'm a foster parents for numerous rescues and volunteer coordinate a few and can send you apps from my ogranizations. 

GOOD LUCK Tucker!


----------



## chelle

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> .....You can't account for everything, there is always going to be an update where you say oh, my, I didn't know they were going to do that, but getting on the same page and ensuring match is huge.


Thank you for that post. It's not about the dog as about the match is what I take away and all great points.



Blanketback said:


> I hope all goes well today. I just want to add that you should be extra sensitive with the kids. I'm sure losing their last dog must have crushed them - given their ages, they grew up with him. If they do seem distant it might just be their way of trying to protect themselves from that kind of hurt again. Good luck to all of you!


According to their mom, they're so excited they're about to burst. Especially the boy. In her last email to confirm time tonight, she said the kids were asking her if Tucker could just stay and not go back home. Now, obviously that's putting the cart before the dog, lol, and they're being kids, excited about a cool new thing in their lives. I won't be dropping him off tonight as I do have a plan on how I want to do that.. (a couple visits and maybe let him stay a few hours, etc,, dependent on what I find and how things go) 

They have read his webpage (a "diary" of sorts that I started when he came home and continued until about the point I thought he was going to stay,) read his CL ad and have seen his vids and photos. I have told them absolutely everything about Tucker and especially the negatives: potential fence jumper, jumps up sometimes and not leading him by collar. She hasn't balked at any of it, so we shall see.....

Tucker will love them no doubt because Tucker loves everything... the question is, will they enjoy Tucker antics in real life? I say that in love, but this guy is a nut sometimes! A lovey nut, but still, a nut.


----------



## Blanketback

Not to be bossy or anything, but do you think the back-and-forth with Tucker will make things easier for him, or harder? It is all about him, after all. I know you're just trying to be careful, but...maybe someone else has some words of wisdom about this?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I use a few meetings with dogs and their new people when they are approved. I let them observe me with the dog, how I try to set the dog up to succeed, what I do when they don't, etc, and also the dog is familiar with the person. I let them handle the dog and offer suggestions as needed. I also take them to the home (adult dogs - puppies are a little more flexible) so the dog walks in and knows it. I do it to try to lessen the transition issues. I don't know if there is anything to prove that this method works better in terms of return rates, but for my fosters, who have been with me a while usually, this is important for me to feel that they are going to be excited about seeing this great person again when they leave me. 

One thing to be careful of is that you may walk away and say not a match. Feeling bad with the kids - and that is okay - it is not your responsibility that the mom has said that they are going to get this dog.


----------



## chelle

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I use a few meetings with dogs and their new people when they are approved. I let them observe me with the dog, how I try to set the dog up to succeed, what I do when they don't, etc, and also the dog is familiar with the person. I let them handle the dog and offer suggestions as needed. I also take them to the home (adult dogs - puppies are a little more flexible) so the dog walks in and knows it. I do it to try to lessen the transition issues. I don't know if there is anything to prove that this method works better in terms of return rates, but for my fosters, who have been with me a while usually, this is important for me to feel that they are going to be excited about seeing this great person again when they leave me.
> 
> One thing to be careful of is that you may walk away and say not a match. Feeling bad with the kids - and that is okay - it is not your responsibility that the *mom has said that they are going to get this dog*.


Thank you, that's how I'm feeling about it. Admittedly, I'm going by the seat of my pants here, but all this info is really helping. 

Mom hasn't promised them the dog, or at least from what I gather. Sorry if I said something to suggest otherwise. She makes it sound as though they've gone thru the webpage, vids, pics, etc _together_ and told me they discussed responsibility of dog ownership at length. On paper, you couldn't ask for a better prospect, but like many have said, paper doesn't always translate in real life.

I can walk away if I must.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Yeah, l don't know if that is the best method, but one that works for dogs I have fostered (who stay with me a similar length of time as Tucker for whatever reasons - health, behavior, drive).  It hasn't seemed to hurt the dog - but, weirdo here talks to the dogs and tells them throughout the whole process what is happening. 

That's good - I wasn't sure, but wanted to mention it because sometimes people feel bad about disappointing kids. I am much more Willy Wonka about it.  (Yeek, that winky guy does have a Willy Wonka-ish look...like am I kidding or not really...)


----------



## Freestep

chelle said:


> I won't be dropping him off tonight as I do have a plan on how I want to do that.. (a couple visits and maybe let him stay a few hours, etc,, dependent on what I find and how things go)


I don't know if dragging it out with a lot of back-and-forth is a good idea. 

Here's what I would do: if everything seems like a good match at the meeting tonight, and you're comfortable with everything, make another appointment with them in a few days. During this time, call references, do your background checks, whatever. If you have their full name and phone number, just put it into a Google search and see what comes up. Often times you'll find nothing, which is actually not a bad thing.

Assuming everything checks out, the second time you bring him over, let them keep him for a 30-day trial period. Sometime after the trial is up, and everything is going swimmingly, make another appointment at their place, and check out how things are going. If you like what you see, collect your re-homing fee and sign him over.


----------



## chelle

Freestep said:


> I don't know if dragging it out with a lot of back-and-forth is a good idea.
> 
> Here's what I would do: if everything seems like a good match at the meeting tonight, and you're comfortable with everything, make another appointment with them in a few days. During this time, call references, do your background checks, whatever. If you have their full name and phone number, just put it into a *Google search and see what comes up*. Often times you'll find nothing, which is actually not a bad thing.
> 
> Assuming everything checks out, the second time you bring him over, let them keep him for a 30-day trial period. Sometime after the trial is up, and everything is going swimmingly, make another appointment at their place, and check out how things are going. If you like what you see, collect your re-homing fee and sign him over.


I don't know, either, but I'm going to go on instinct on that one. I don't want to be exactly carting him over for daily visits, , but he definitely isn't going to stay tonight. 

Oh my goodness, I just went full stalker mode. I googled around (why didn't I do that before, duh!?) and found a fb page full of family pics and a pic of her ginormous backyard. I know, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Geesh I'm getting wierd here.


----------



## Sunflowers

Well...it could go the other way, too. She could very well be "stalking" you on this forum


----------



## Rerun

I wouldn't do a bunch of visits personally. I don't think that's good for the dog or anyone involved. They are going to have their way of doing things, and you'll have your way. Not to mention the stress he's going to undergo every time he returns to your house and is back to crate and rotate with a dog in the house that he doesn't get along with. 

Personally, if I trusted the friend who recommended this friend to me, I'd let the dog go if the visit went well. Assuming the visit is at their house? Then give them the weekend to decide what they think.


----------



## sitstay

Here is my thought on doing a bunch of visits: they benefit nobody. Say you have an interested adopter, and you decide to schedule a series of four or five visits before making your decision. What could you possibly learn in that many visits that you couldn't learn in one home visit, and maybe one public setting visit? Nothing. You'll learn nothing. But you will certainly have a harder time telling that potential adopter "No" after everyone has invested so much time in so many different visits. 

One home visit (two if you need to reschedule in order to meet everyone who lives in the home face-to-face). I always bring the dog they are interested in with me for the home visit. I have actually had a potential adopter decide to NOT pursue adopting my foster based solely on "How much bigger he seems now that he is actually in our house". I also like to schedule one meeting in a public place, like a park. Not a dog park, just a park-park. I like to get an idea of how comfortable the adults are handling a dog in public. 

I wouldn't be turned off by someone responding to a public ad and asking what the adoption fee is. There are some pretty hefty "fees" being charged, and I think it is reasonable for someone to ask if they are dealing with a $500 "adoption fee" or a $75 adoption fee. Now, if those same people tell you they plan on feeding Old Roy because a dog doesn't need to "eat better than the humans" and they aren't open to changing that plan, *then *tell them "No".

Chelle, contact every rescue within a 400 mile radius. Contact breeders in your region and ask if they would courtesy post Tucker on their website. If one or two don't respond, or say no, be persistent and continue contacting other organizations. Make sure you specify in the subject line of an e-mail (or that you mention it in a voice mail) that you want a courtesy post only. Point out in great big neon letters that you will keep Tucker until he is placed. 

Good luck. I know this is hard for you. But Tucker will find the family he has been meant for, and that will ease your heart.
Sheilah


----------



## onyx'girl

Alone with the great advice everyone has already posted, go to your local training clubs and see if you can post Tucker with them. Sometimes people are looking for a good dog to work with and just don't want to do the CL thing. 
So a trainer recommendation to their clients may be a way to go as well. Or at least he gets more exposure. Word of mouth is a good thing in my world.


----------



## Sunflowers

So...how'd it go?


----------



## chelle

Sunflowers said:


> So...how'd it go?


Just got home a little bit ago (we stayed nearly two hours) so here's the update!

The massive yard is indeed six foot privacy fenced.. except for about a 10-12 foot section at the house that is wide open. Ugh. 

Clearly that won't work. They said they were looking into installing a large gate there. So, we couldn't let Tucker run free in the yard, but thankfully had brought a 25 foot line with us just in case.

Tucker was overwhelmed. A couple neighbors dropped by. Then a couple family members. That was more people in a strange place than he's dealt with. The grandma was a natural. She approached him slow, babytalked him and reached *under* his head to give him rubs and he fell in love. I was being very vigilent here, because she was an older lady and I couldn't have him jumping up on her, but he did not even try. 

The little boy was a bit intimidated at first, but giggled like crazy when Tucker kissed him. I learned that her son had been bit by a stranger dog a couple of years ago and it required stitches. So the boy is a little reticent. It made mom very happy that Tucker was kissing him as gently as he did.

The young girl (14 y/o) was the star, though. She really took a liking to him! After a little time to warm up, she took him all over the yard (on leash) and then into the house, to her room, etc. Her mom wanted to make sure she could control him and she did and could with the prong on. 

We went in the house eventually and Tucker was a sniffin about all over the place.  He found a nice couch and jumped right up and did his flip-on-the-back, let me roll around thing. Mom and grandma giggled. Not offput in the slightest by Tucks wanting to roll around on their furniture. :laugh:

The mom and dad also seemed to *really* like him. Dad seemed to really like Tucker's ball drive. Worked/played with him on "drop" and played a little ball, but hard to do with a tieout. Mom played with him and loved on him, too, but her concern was in large part about her kids. Understandable. 

They were just a *super* nice family. 

For now, we have left it that they'd take the night to sleep on things, although when I offered that suggestion, Mom said, "Oh I think we know already what we want to do!" I'm not rushing into things, nor are they, and I like that. Impulsive decisions are rarely good ones.... They have a big family reunion tomorrow, so they were setting up for that and will be busy with that, but I will wait for their next communication and go from there.

~~~~~

Sorry this is so long, but I'm not quite done. :shocked::crazy:

So now we are home and Tuckie is crated up since he had quite the day; vet, then I took him to the park, then to their house...

So Bailey's turn to be out...

I am looking at Tuckie in his crate and thinking -- this sucks for him. This is a crappy life for him. I don't think I _really_ saw how unfair of a life it has become for him. All those people loving up on him.. willing and wanting to give him love... THAT is what he deserves to have. Mom said more than once, I want an inside dog to be a part of our family. Seeing her and grandma giggle when he was rolling around on that couch... 

I've laid awake over this thing. I could rotate/crate. I could hope and pray when the hormones leave Bailey, that they might get along again. A gamble that could pay.. or not. It would still mean weeks of rotate/crate and then risks. 

Tuckie deserves more than that.

I hope this works out, but if not, that's okay, too. I've now seen what Tuckie *could* have.. so I do feel like I am doing the right thing by him. I wasn't 100% on that before.


----------



## Sunflowers

This sounds very promising, Chelle. I am most of all happy to hear you coming to terms with it all. The greatest proof of love is putting the needs of others above your own. You are a very good person.


----------



## GatorBytes

Sunflowers said:


> This sounds very promising, Chelle. I am most of all happy to hear you coming to terms with it all. The greatest proof of love is putting the needs of others above your own. You are a very good person.


Special person...lucky dogs you deserve a hug:hugs:


----------



## msvette2u

> All those people loving up on him.. willing and wanting to give him love... THAT is what he deserves to have.


Ah, now you're a rescuer 

When we let Savannah go (love that dog - my Basset girl  ) due to her back injury, I knew it was the best thing because here she kept being angry at the other dogs for jumping on her. Although I am still sad, she deserved to be in a home where she didn't have to deal with that.

When you can say, "I love this dog, but I know she/he can have a better life elsewhere", then you're a rescuer...that's my opinion anyway


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Excellent to hear this! So glad for the mindset change, good for you - it is not easy. 

Also OT a bit - I just wanted to explain that I don't go around visiting random strangers with my fosters in the hopes that they will want to adopt them - they are approved adopters, who are matches with my dog, who intend to adopt them, and in the time between their decision and the actual adoption, we spend time together. The dog is no more confused than if they went with me to see my aunt multiple times. BUT - when they see the people again, they at least know who they are. My last few fosters, other than a temp puppy foster, have been with me for 10 months, 1 year, 10 months, and 8 months, so are not shelter-foster a month-new home dogs. GoodKarma and her husband met with Rosa (who was a puppy I had had for 3 months before adoption) a few times while waiting for her spay, and I think it was nice for everyone. They were not strangers to each other. Just clearing that up.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

This sounds good chelle and I know how difficult it is for you, I hope this works out


----------



## Freestep

This sounds great. As soon as they fix the hole in the fence, I think you've found Tucker's new family.


----------



## sitstay

chelle said:


> The massive yard is indeed six foot privacy fenced.. except for about a 10-12 foot section at the house that is wide open. Ugh.
> 
> Clearly that won't work. They said they were looking into installing a large gate there. So, we couldn't let Tucker run free in the yard, but thankfully had brought a 25 foot line with us just in case.
> 
> I hope this works out, but if not, that's okay, too. I've now seen what Tuckie *could* have.. so I do feel like I am doing the right thing by him. I wasn't 100% on that before.


It sounds like a promising start. I think it speaks to just how nice Tucker is that he dealt with all that stimulation so well. 

About the gap in the fence? If everything continues to click with this family, and they do end up wanting to adopt him, please make sure that Tucker stays with you until the gate is actually installed. I have seen so many situations where the adopting home promises that something will happen (a fence, a gate, a crate, etc.), but life intervenes and plans get pushed to the back burner for whatever reason and the promised "fix" never happens. And then you get a call a year later and find out that the foster you poured time and effort into was hit by a car because the fence was never put up, or is now sitting in a city shelter because the crate was never purchased and the dog ate one too many pairs of shoes. 

It can be scary to insist on something like a gate before they can have the dog, but you'll be saving everyone needless angst if you do.
Sheilah


----------



## chelle

Thank you *so much *everyone. Your support means a lot and helps a lot. I was so disappointed to see that gap in the fence... Here is this positively dreamy, *huge* backyard... with a 12 foot gap!? UGH!!!!!!!!!  

They also have a garden back there and naturally Tucker thought he should try to go in it. He's been known to pick off cherry tomatoes when he gets half a chance. So they'll need to do something about that also.

@Sheilah -- yes, they'll need to deal with that gap before they could permanently take him. I know the life of tieouts and how not fun that can be! Their yard is big enough they could actually put the tieout in the center and probably run double tieouts to give a lot of room, but that's not a way to live permanently. I think they'd burn out on that real quick. I'd be very concerned with that anyway, as I know how hurtful getting clotheslined can be and I wouldn't want their kids to be at risk of that.

So I sure hope they're serious and get that gate or extra fencing in. Just a few privacy panels and a gate even. They have the perfect yard for Invisible Fencing, if they wanted to go that route. My yard stinks for that because you'd have to go under concrete in a couple spots, but theirs is ideal. If they were serious about installing that, I have the stubborn pet kit with a ton of wire left. 

Part of why I wasn't going to tell them that I'd be willing to leave him on first visit was due to something like this. It would have been awkward, you know? Since they had no expectation he'd be staying, since I had said I wanted a couple of visits, they knew he was going back home with me and I didn't have to say, "Hey, I know I said I'd leave him with you, but now I can't because of this gap." Hope that makes sense. Not to mention, I didn't want them to feel pressured in the slightest if they didn't completely and totally fall for him. It is easier to either say "no" via email or just not answer and I want them to have that "out."

I am looking forward to hearing back from them, though, I admit. We'll see.


----------



## Sunflowers

sit said:


> . I have seen so many situations where the adopting home promises that something will happen (a fence, a gate, a crate, etc.), but life intervenes and plans get pushed to the back burner for whatever reason and the promised "fix" never happens.


I agree with Sheilah!

When we moved into our previous home in 2000, the neighbors had some huge, wire-bound bundles of stones delivered, apparently for a landscaping wall. 

Wen we moved out 12 years  later, said bundles were _still _in their front yard, untouched. 

No gap closure, no Tuckies.


----------



## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

Im glad he had a great visit. the gap is a crucial issue . i losrt a dog to the road before Daisy .Tie outs can fail and so can fence gates but it is so much safer w/ a fence including Invisible. Continued thoughts and prayers for Tuck to find his home and you to feel confident in his placement.


----------



## gsdraven

Great update Chelle. Good for you for doing what's best for Tucker. Hope it all works out.


----------



## onyx'girl

Is Tucker a climber? Some fences won't keep them in, and he has that climbing gene. I'd maybe see if they would install an e-fence as a security to the other fencing. This family sounds like a perfect fit, hope it all works out!


----------



## chelle

onyx'girl said:


> *Is Tucker a climber?* Some fences won't keep them in, and he has that climbing gene. I'd maybe see if they would install an e-fence as a security to the other fencing. This family sounds like a perfect fit, hope it all works out!


He made no attempt for months and then one day a few weeks ago, it apparently seemed like the fun thing to do, to scale the fence.

He was successful and had a heck of a good time running in the woods, rolling around in stinkies.. and then discovered some discarded Arby's french fries in the middle of the street and was chowing down on them oblivious to the traffic. Yeah, that was a great moment. 

That's when we put in the hotwire. He's received one easy and one hard shock and has not tried it again... but he shows temptation (stares up at the top of the fence and whines.)

I do believe much of this is about his boredom and lack of getting out and about than anything. I could be wrong and have shared all these thoughts with the family I'm talking to....


----------



## chelle

We're headed over for another visit today. Going to talk also about the best fencing options for that area. A five foot chain link gate or sliding gate or whatever wouldn't be effective since we know he can jump it. I'm liking the Invisible better for this all the time. I'd feel so much more secure.


----------



## msvette2u

That blank hole's going to be a big temptation for him though.
A shock collar/IF collar may not work on him. because the urge to wander may be stronger.
Hey, I'm a poet!


----------



## chelle

msvette2u said:


> That blank hole's going to be a big temptation for him though.
> A shock collar/IF collar may not work on him. because the urge to wander may be stronger.
> Hey, I'm a poet!


We have a bit of an advantage here and already know it does work on him. (Or did back then.)

The previous owner had a deck with just a standard deck railing and Tucker was going out of that. (Rest of her yard was 6 ft privacy fence)

She bought an Invis Fence system (not a cheap one, either) and used only enough wire for that small section of deck, strapped the collar on and let him figure it out on his own. She said he never went over after that.

I think that might also be part of why Tucker has not truly challenged (yet) the hotwire. He's familiar with being shocked and clearly is no fan of it.

Of course I want to see a true fence there, though. I'd like the whole place to be Ft Knox actually.


----------



## onyx'girl

No matter what the height of the fence is, he may still climb it! The e-fence option with a true fence may work.


----------



## msvette2u

onyx'girl said:


> No matter what the height of the fence is, he may still climb it! The e-fence option with a true fence may work.


That's what I'm thinking. A combo of electric (either invisible or a hot-wire) and 'real' fence.


----------



## chelle

Agh, I don't want to even type this, you guys are gonna tell me I'm doing the wrong thing...  But, I've thought about it, laid awake in bed about it, obsessed just a lil bit  and I'm going to try this.

I took Tuckie to their house for a second meet on Sunday. I brought two long tieouts and strung them together (each about 20+ ft) and placed the tieout in the center of the huge rear yard and Tucker can go every direction and be about 2 foot from the fence. It gives a very big area to throw the jollyball, that he loves. So, you can throw a ball from one end of the tieout and it is something like 80 feet to the other end. I can't even throw that far. It is bigger than I can give him in my own yard.

They are going to take him this weekend on a trial. He was headed to boarding because we're doing our last camp trip of the year. I couldn't risk having both dogs in the camper due to their issues at this point. Even crated. Last camp trip we hung out together, walked together, etc, but we just cannot do that at this point. (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/stories/186566-camping-trip-we-survived-pic-heavy.html) (I didn't know how precious that trip was until now...)

I spent a lot of time there talking to them and especially the kids about clotheslining and how they had to be on their guard -- and better -- to stay nearer the end of the tieout and just throw the ball. Tucker brings the ball back and drops it like a champ. Mom and Dad were in on all of this, of course. 

A couple neighbor kids came over -- clearly this is a busy household with kids -- and Tucker just *thrived* on the attention. I showed them how if they stayed at the end of the lead, he'd jump and get nuts.. but if they just walked into his space, he was fine. 

I showed them the hand signals that Tuckie is used to and the words I use for commands. Showed them he's been taught to wait for meals and release. Showed them how I use "watch me." 

Came home tonight with some heavy duty rope, clips and electrical tape and measured out the same length as the double tieouts. Clips on each end. I made them another lead, about 7 or 8 foot, with a clip on one end and a handle on the other for potty breaks. 

I'm going to make a few short video clips of the basics; when/if he crate charges, when/if he door charges, the commands, etc.

They love him and I can see it. They love his antics :crazy::laugh: ... Tuckie climbed right up on Dad's lap like he loves to do so much and Dad loved it. Mom giggled and ran for her camera. Grandma laughed 'til I thought she'd break. Grandma is really in love with Tucker. He is very gentle with her, too. She coos and talks sweet and he just melts on her.

I think tieouts suck, suck, suck, but I've lived for many years, before my fence, without them. I realize I likely sound as though I'm justifying -- letting my standards down -- but I am going on gut here. I know tieouts are not ideal, but I know they can be made to work, too. If there is a place it can work, it is their place with that huge space back there without a single thing to get wrapped around.

Will I be nervous to drop him off? UM YEAHHH!!! Really dang nervous. My phone will be on and charged and ready for anything. I'll rush right over and take him home if there is any issue, but we're going to give it a try. In a weird way, I almost feel better that he'll be on a tieout. No issue with him trying to jump a fence or escape thru that gap.

I pray I am doing the right thing, but my gut says I am.


----------



## Sunflowers

What is preventing them from closing the gap?

I have to say this, Chelle: if you let him go without a resolution to this problem and he gets out and gets hit by a car you will never forgive yourself.


----------



## msvette2u

Why can't they fix the fence? Is it _un_fencable?


----------



## chelle

Sunflowers said:


> What is preventing them from closing the gap?
> 
> I have to say this, Chelle: if you let him go without a resolution to this problem and he gets out and gets hit by a car you will never forgive yourself.


They are discussing their options there. We've talked about this at length.

I don't completely trust Tucker even if they close the gap.

I like... no, I love, this family. I do. 

My sanity is on the edge here, too. Here's my thinking:

Fact #1: This family genuinely loves Tucker. I trust them to use the tieouts, as much as you can trust anything.

Fact #2: My life with these dogs apart has turned into pure ****. Neither dog is content to be outside alone. They will bark, cry, freak out. Tucker has learned how to open the window when I'm outside with Bailey. (Unless the top is locked, which I've learned I must do!) *I have two velcro dogs here and I'm the only velcro strip.* It is impossible. Both are miserable and I'm exhausted beyond belief. 

I can't crate them for too long, I can't exercise one or the other enough, I am losing my mind here. My two girls are being very neglected because I'm so caught up with these two. 

Right now Bailey is crying like a madman, pawing at the door even after a pretty intense frisbee session ... Tucker is inside, but that makes him distraught to hear his brother ... this.. is... impossible. And I am sitting here wondering which dog to be crated -- which dog has had more exercise tonight and which one will settle better. This is not working. I cannot make this work.


----------



## GatorBytes

You are amazing btw. 

Why does the dog have to be out in the yard anyhow...put him on tieout for quick bathroom breaks (in a pinch), supervised....otherwise take him for walks


----------



## chelle

GatorBytes said:


> You are amazing btw.
> 
> Why does the dog have to be out in the yard anyhow...put him on tieout for quick bathroom breaks (in a pinch), supervised....otherwise take him for walks


Thanks. Not amazing,,,, insane. :crazy:

But, then where is the other dog?  Either in a crate or loose in the house, crying and pawing at the window. They're crated plenty already, since I work full time. I despise crating them when I'm home from work.


----------



## GatorBytes

chelle said:


> Thanks. Not amazing,,,, insane. :crazy:
> 
> But, then where is the other dog?  Either in a crate or loose in the house, crying and pawing at the window. They're crated plenty already, since I work full time. I despise crating them when I'm home from work.


 
No, sorry, I mean at the new place until they get a fence. Gosh, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings...ohhhh, you going through enough....sorry sorry sorry I didn't clarify


----------



## RebelGSD

They could put up plasic deer fencing at that spot temporarily. It is not expensive. Just attached to the normal fence.


----------



## chelle

GatorBytes said:


> No, sorry, I mean at the new place until they get a fence. Gosh, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings...ohhhh, you going through enough....sorry sorry sorry I didn't clarify


Oh you're ok!  :wub: There is no doubt in my mind Tucker will be the focus of the family for the trial. My worry is that it may only be a honeymoon thing. I think three days/nights is a good start to breaking the honeymoon feelings? During our visits, I've been a pretty helicopter mom. I'm ready for them to attempt to manage on their own.


----------



## onyx'girl

The only thing about the tie-out that concerns me, is a child getting caught up in it if Tucker runs after something. We always watch our long lines in training, and still one will wrap around a leg or whatever, and they can cause serious injury. So....the people should be aware that kids(or adults) coming into Tuckers area should heed that line big-time!

Fingers and paws crossed everything goes smoothly!


----------



## Rerun

I think that's what she meant by clothes lining in the post.

I don't know, personally I think a 12 foot gap shouldn't be that hard to close, even if they just use 6 ft t-posts and stock fencing for the time being. Done properly, it can be stable. It's not ideal, certainly. But I think a line that long is a disaster waiting to happen with even an adult, much less kids. I too can't tell you how many adults, myself included, I've seen get tangled up in their own long line. If they are just putting him out there for potty breaks great, but I wouldn't be encouraging playing ball and stuff with him on that line tied to a tree. Kids simply can not understand how fast a dog moves and they'll be so excited about watching him chase the ball that they'll forget the kid #2 is standing off to the side mid way and is going to get wrapped up in that line. it's just not safe IMHO. 

Again, I don't have a problem with a short tie out for a potty break, and I'm not going to warn you on the dangers of being hit by a car, etc because honestly accidents can happen either way. I would be a little wary that one of the kids is going to accidently let him out the back door before they have a good enough hold of him and he'll get loose. But, that could happen at the front door as well. Honestly I find that once people find something that "works" (the tie out) no matter thte drawbacks, the project of fixing the fence will get put on the back burner. Especially being in IL with winter coming.


----------



## Mary Jane

I admire you deeply for your success at making Tucker the wonderful adoptable dog he is today. What I suggest is not from any experience in rescue, but just in dealing with people. Right now, Tucker's prospective family is at their most biddable point regarding bringing Tucker into their home. They love him, they WANT him, you now have some leverage for Tucker's best interests. That leverage is effectively gone once he is adopted. Can you possibly make his adoption contingent upon closing that gap in the fence?

Mary Jane


----------



## chelle

onyx'girl said:


> The only thing about the tie-out that concerns me, is a child getting caught up in it if Tucker runs after something. We always watch our long lines in training, and still one will wrap around a leg or whatever, and they can cause serious injury. So....the people should be aware that kids(or adults) coming into Tuckers area should heed that line big-time!
> 
> Fingers and paws crossed everything goes smoothly!


I know how bad those lines can be. I spent a lot of time showing them, but they are kids after all... I have to trust that mom and dad will be in control of this. Tucker wrapped around mom's ankles, so she found out herself. 



Rerun said:


> ..... I don't know, personally I think a 12 foot gap shouldn't be that hard to close, even if they just use 6 ft t-posts and stock fencing for the time being. Done properly, it can be stable. It's not ideal, certainly. But I think a line that long is a disaster waiting to happen with even an adult, much less kids. I too can't tell you how many adults, myself included, I've seen get tangled up in their own long line. If they are just putting him out there for potty breaks great, but I wouldn't be encouraging playing ball and stuff with him on that line tied to a tree. Kids simply can not understand how fast a dog moves and they'll be so excited about watching him chase the ball that they'll forget the kid #2 is standing off to the side mid way and is going to get wrapped up in that line. it's just not safe IMHO.
> 
> Again, I don't have a problem with a short tie out for a potty break, and I'm not going to warn you on the dangers of being hit by a car, etc because honestly accidents can happen either way. I would be a little wary that one of the kids is going to accidently let him out the back door before they have a good enough hold of him and he'll get loose. But, that could happen at the front door as well. Honestly I find that once people find something that "works" (the tie out) no matter thte drawbacks, the project of fixing the fence will get put on the back burner. Especially being in IL with winter coming.


All your concerns are super valid and I agree. I've been clotheslined plenty myself and am not fond of it.

That was what I was showing them and in their yard, it has more hope than I'd have in another situation. The tieout stake goes into the ground in the center of the large open area at back. There are no trees to wrap around. Person goes to end of tieout, throws the ball (which Tuckie loves,) Tucker then has double the length of the tieout to run for the ball and human never needs to go more than a few feet inside the tieout area other than to get the ball when he brings it back. This is what I spent much of my time showing them on last visit.

Ideal, no.

I'll mention the cheap fencing option perhaps, but I'd rather they just do it right and put up the privacy panels and gate.



Mary Jane said:


> I admire you deeply for your success at making Tucker the wonderful adoptable dog he is today. What I suggest is not from any experience in rescue, but just in dealing with people. Right now, Tucker's prospective family is at their most biddable point regarding bringing Tucker into their home. They love him, they WANT him, you now have some leverage for Tucker's best interests. That leverage is effectively gone once he is adopted. Can you possibly make his adoption contingent upon closing that gap in the fence?
> 
> Mary Jane


Good idea, thanks.

~~~~

I wish I could special order the perfect, Ft Knox yard for Tucker to go along with the perfect, loving and devoted family. I wish I could handpick each human in the home and I wish they'd do everything exactly how I want them to. 

Lots of wishing. Lots of worrying.

I worry when they do finish fencing that portion, that a kid will leave it open and there goes Tucker. I like that they live on a dead end, away from busy streets, but still... I worry he'll find a weak spot and try to go over or under. I worry, I worry, I worry. I did find a loose board that needs re-nailed and pointed that out. So even fencing isn't perfect if you don't find any/all weaknesses in it. They've agreed to hotwire it if Tucker shows any signs of trying to go over. I've told them I'll come right over and help string the line.... Told them I'll always help them with any training issue, any questions, etc.. Anything. That he must come back to me with absolutely no hard feelings if there is anything that doesn't work.

Truth is, I can have standards, definitely, but I'm not going to get every single thing met. I'm going to let him go to their house on a trial of sorts this weekend and they will see if they can deal with tie-out life. And with Tucker. 

I'm going over to their house on Sunday to talk about everything. I'll be camping and only 30 minutes from their house.

Am I nervous? Um, YEAH! Am I willing to go back to the drawing board? YEAH! Something is telling me to go ahead and try this. I know many think I'm doing the wrong thing.


----------



## Bear L

This is my opinion - if I was the family, until I get the dog, I may not be willing to invest in a fence prior to adoption. Also, I may (not saying I do, just playing pretend here) think a fence is not necessary until I see it and experience the need myself then make the necessary investment. I may want to deal with the issue differently - whether wise or not. And as already mentioned, an irresponsible owner would have bad things happen whether there's a fence or not. Even with a responsible owner, sometimes bad things still happen. 

If I made the decision to adopt a dog (not sure if that family has), the longer this drags out, the less I'd be interested in adopting a dog. 

Not saying this to encourage or discourage a behavior. Just saying this from the view of a adopter as if it were me doing the adopting.


----------



## RebelGSD

I am with Rerun on this one. The long tie out is hard for adults to manage, let alone kids. Someone will get hurt. I think a cheap fix of the fence is better than the long tie out. And I have seen plenty of dogs chew through a leash, so a clothes line is not particularly safe in that way either. I simply don't understand why a small gap in the fence cannot be temporarily fixed inexpensively to make the yard safe for the dog and people.


----------



## bocron

chelle said:


> Lots of wishing. Lots of worrying.
> 
> I worry when they do finish fencing that portion, that a kid will leave it open and there goes Tucker. I like that they live on a dead end, away from busy streets, but still... I worry he'll find a weak spot and try to go over or under. I worry, I worry, I worry.


Adopting out Tucker is much like selling a puppy. I learned many years ago that once they are out of my house they are no longer under my control. I had contracts that stated things about how the puppy would be housed, fed, trained, etc, but basically it is a piece of paper and pretty useless. As my lawyer sister-in-law told me, once I took the money and turned over "the product" (which is how a puppy is viewed in terms of the law) then any stipulations were pretty much useless. This is when I learned that I could only control what happened before the pup was sold. Same thing like the other poster told you, you only have leverage while you still have possession of the dog, so put your foot down or move on. If they won't get it done when you've made it clear it concerns you(and when they should be trying to impress you) then they won't do it after. Actions speak louder than words.


----------



## chelle

Bear L said:


> This is my opinion - if I was the family, until I get the dog, I may not be willing to invest in a fence prior to adoption. Also, I may (not saying I do, just playing pretend here) think a fence is not necessary until I *see it and experience the need myself* then make the necessary investment. I may want to deal with the issue differently - whether wise or not. And as already mentioned, an irresponsible owner would have bad things happen whether there's a fence or not. Even with a responsible owner, sometimes bad things still happen.
> 
> If I made the decision to adopt a dog (not sure if that family has), the longer this drags out, the less I'd be interested in adopting a dog.
> 
> Not saying this to encourage or discourage a behavior. Just saying this from the view of a adopter as if it were me doing the adopting.


Although probably not politically correct, I agree with the thinking. I would not invest in a fence until/unless the person said, "Yes, you can have this dog IF you fix your fence." (And I haven't said that in so many words.) They don't need the fence if they don't have a dog. They were not actively seeking a dog -- it was my friend that mentioned I was looking for a home to her coworker.. anyway..

I didn't get my own fence until I had a great need for it. (Bailey was testing his recall, Tucker came here, etc.) I think they will see living with tieouts is a poor choice when they have such a relatively small job to do to enclose that portion. I have lots of fear, though, that a kid coming in or out will accidentally leave it open or let Tucker dart. That scares me more than anything I think.



RebelGSD said:


> I am with Rerun on this one. The long tie out is hard for adults to manage, let alone kids. Someone will get hurt. I think a cheap fix of the fence is better than the long tie out. And I have seen plenty of dogs chew through a leash, so a clothes line is not particularly safe in that way either. I simply don't understand why a small gap in the fence cannot be temporarily fixed inexpensively to make the yard safe for the dog and people.


I am not in favor of a cheap, temporary fix. I know it can be made somewhat strong, but by the time you invest in six foot mesh, posts that should probably be cemented, the rods, a gate, etc... you have several hundred in to do it properly... might as well pursue their original plan with the privacy panels and gate for not *that* much more.

~~

I see my tieout plan is definitely not acceptable here, but how in the world do all the owners who use tieouts manage? Do none of them have kids? Are they all going to the doctor with injuries from the tieouts? Sorry, don't mean to be whiny, but gosh I'm feeling so discouraged here.


----------



## gsdraven

Chelle,

Do they have any strong mature trees in the yard? A trolley (overhead) system is much safer than a tie out.

Shop Four Paws 50' Heavy Weight Overhead Dog Trolley at Lowes.com

Something like that ^ that can be anchored into a tree and/or the house.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Could not agree more with Annette. 

Honestly, rescues I've volunteered with don't typically adopt out to tie out homes - no fences, yes, but not tie outs. 

Tying up a dog...PROBLEMS!!! is an interesting article. While everything might not apply/apply now, it is something to really consider when looking at tie outs in general. 

Now, think of what you see when you see a fence with a hole. And what a dog will see - not the big sturdy footage of fence, but the hole. That is all the focus is going to be. Today a tiny bottom piece of my wooden fence fell out. Like a missing piece of tooth that is all the dogs could concentrate on, whole yard waiting to be run through and played in and they are at this hole...now covered with some Pergo! 

So essentially, to me, this is a home without a fence. So they need to leash for potties, take leash walks, and play on leash with the dog. 

When you have a fence gate, you don't use the gate to get in and out unless necessary and you don't do it while the dog is in the yard. You go back in the house out and around. These are all things you do for management for dogs. Kids can be taught this, I would imagine. 

If you don't trust people to do any of it, and you can't answer yes to the question "would I leave one of my dogs here with them" because there are too many DEFINITE issues (not just ones you worry about because they are possible, but because they are probable) you can walk away. It doesn't sound like this is the case, but I don't know. 

What has been discussed regarding the fence? My simple statement would be - and I have said this to adopters - who have either wanted the dog badly enough to do it or not - we need to have this taken care of before you can have this dog, because for this dog, this is specifically what is needed - whatever that may be. People are great about it! And if not, better for me to know before than after!


----------



## chelle

gsdraven said:


> Chelle,
> 
> Do they have any strong mature trees in the yard? A trolley (overhead) system is much safer than a tie out.
> 
> Shop Four Paws 50' Heavy Weight Overhead Dog Trolley at Lowes.com
> 
> Something like that ^ that can be anchored into a tree and/or the house.


Mmmmm... I'm trying to picture their yard now... this is a definite possibility.



JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Could not agree more with Annette.
> 
> Honestly, rescues I've volunteered with *don't typically adopt out to tie out homes - no fences, yes, but not tie outs*.


Thanks for the input and that article is very good.

I maybe should clarify? that they have no intention of Tucker living outside or being outside alone on a tieout. I was extremely adamant about that -- Tucker needs to be with his family. He is having to do that now at my house -- be alone sometimes on a tieout -- and it SUCKS FOR HIM ! That is the life I am desperately trying to get him *away* from and there is *no way* I'd put him back into that same thing.

The family asked several times how he does inside, because when they're inside, they want him inside. They seem to honestly want a four legged family member to hang out with them inside and out. 

The tieout thing was solely my idea, for him to have lots of room to run and catch his beloved Jolly Ball. Nothing more than that.


----------



## Blanketback

If they giggled when Tucker was on the couch, and he's just a big hunk of love happy to hang out, then I'd go for it if they seem like the perfect fit. Lots of dogs get left outside, but just as many of them barely see daylight. I'm not saying that's the right way to keep a dog, but it's reality. As you say, a few holes, some cement, a gate and the panels and it's a simple fix. I'm sure they'll be doing it before winter comes around, when they find out that an unfenced yard sucks.


----------



## RebelGSD

Their intent to keep him mainly indoors is not questioned.
The safety of the children and of the dog on a very long tieout is the issue outdoors - because of a big chunk of the fence missing.
Did they explicitely promise to fix the fence? Did they mention a timeframe?


----------



## DJEtzel

Can't Chelle just drive by in a few weeks to a month to see if they fixed the fence? 

Make them sign a contract contingent on that, and take him back if they don't fix it. Problem solved.


----------



## GatorBytes

Aren't you just going to leave him there for just the weekend while you go camping anyhow? As a test drive for all (and break for you?) You should have something signed prior re: ownership and that they are just "dogsitting" for a few days

Perhaps when they have to walk him out on a leash hook up and then see a tangled mess this is going to create or risks of whole situation...then it won't even be an issue...when you p/u after weekend, then you can say "so how did it go" if they rave, then "SO...when is the gate going in?"

again, the lengths you are going to (even offer to install the e-fence)....AMAZING!!!


----------



## DJEtzel

GatorBytes said:


> Aren't you just going to leave him there for just the weekend while you go camping anyhow? As a test drive for all (and break for you?) You should have something signed prior re: ownership and that they are just "dogsitting" for a few days
> 
> Perhaps when they have to walk him out on a leash hook up and then see a tangled mess this is going to create or risks of whole situation...then it won't even be an issue...when you p/u after weekend, then you can say "so how did it go" if they rave, then "SO...when is the gate going in?"
> 
> again, the lengths you are going to (even offer to install the e-fence)....AMAZING!!!


:thumbup:

I have a tie out for my two dogs right now while I'm finishing up my privacy fence. Can't WAIT until that's done because while they're out there for all of 2 minutes to pee and poop, they're making it a nightmare for me! No one should ever WANT this.


----------



## Rerun

You mentioned no trees...I mentioned a zip line (trolley is the proper word, sorry) in the other thread where you were trying to figure out what to do in your yard before the hot wire....I want to warn you to ensure that if you suggest this, that they don't anchor the other end of the line to the fence (such as a fence post). I've known a couple dogs since I was a kid that hung themselves by going over a fence while on a tieout or zip line. Actually known, as in not "heard from a friend of a friend who saw it posted on facebook" kind of thing. Both dogs were known fence jumpers/climbers, and the owners were trying to keep them safe, but simply didn't think about not having it close to the fence. If the line he's attached to was long enough, and anchoed to the fence post, in theory he could go over it and still be ok. In both of the cases I knew of (which were many years ago), the line wasn't long enough and I don't think they were actually anchored to the fence (which makes it worse since the dog is only close enough to get to the fence and not over it). The dogs could reach the fence and go up it, but not hit the bottom on the other side. I know this sounds like common sense, but sadly it's not. Sometimes people just can't think of every possibility.


----------



## chelle

Blanketback said:


> If they giggled when Tucker was on the couch, and he's just a big hunk of love happy to hang out......


They did and he is. 



RebelGSD said:


> Their intent to keep him mainly indoors is not questioned. The safety of the children and of the dog on a very long tieout is the issue outdoors - because of a big chunk of the fence missing.
> Did they explicitely promise to fix the fence? Did they mention a timeframe?


They want to close it in, but have several considerations. There is an old shed there that they want to knock down and the shed borders this area... Too complicated to explain, but they have a couple options on how to do it and they're trying to decide their best one. They say they definitely want it closed in, but no, no time frame discussion.



GatorBytes said:


> Aren't you just going to leave him there for just the weekend while you go camping anyhow? As a test drive for all (and break for you?) You should have something signed prior re: ownership and that they are just "dogsitting" for a few days
> 
> Perhaps when they have to walk him out on a leash hook up and then see a tangled mess this is going to create or risks of whole situation...then it won't even be an issue...when you p/u after weekend, then you can say "so how did it go" if they rave, then "SO...when is the gate going in?"
> 
> again, the lengths you are going to (even offer to install the e-fence)....AMAZING!!!


Thanks. Yes, this is a "trial run" and that's very clear to all of us. It has been stated verbally and via email. I think they're partly taking this slow because they do know all about where he came from -- I shared everything, the links, etc -- and they know he's strong and used to be a crazy dog.  He still has his quirks, but nothing like before... 



DJEtzel said:


> :thumbup: I have a tie out for my two dogs right now while I'm finishing up my privacy fence. Can't WAIT until that's done because while they're out there for all of 2 minutes to pee and poop, they're making it a nightmare for me! No one should ever WANT this.


NIGHTMARE. Wherever I am, whether with the guy inside or outside, the other one is crying, howling, barking. I can't concentrate, my blood pressure must be insane. I meant it when I said I have two velcro dogs and only one strip of velcro. We're on something like two weeks of this? The only thing saving my sanity is the nights my roommate doesn't work late and can be with the "other" dog. 

Not being able to let these dogs be together is a nightmare. I am so stressed out.

I was going to board Tucker this weekend for camping and I honestly felt it would be better for Tucker to have the devoted attention from them - and may possibly find his home - vs being in a boarding facility where he wouldn't know anyone and would be alone.


----------



## Rerun

I don't think it's a bad idea at all, but I too am of the camp that used to stress and worry once the dog went to the new home about whether they were doing everything "right." And really, you can't control that. It's not going to be enforceable to seize him back if they don't close the fence in, that was a totally unrealistic suggestion. And even if you were going to try to enforce it, the cost to do so would be incredibly high and would likely cause the loss of some friendships (since you said this was a friend of a friend).

I think you just have to give them the warnings, explain the safety concerns we have brought up, and come to terms with the best decision for you, Tucker, and your other dogs. As you said, you will never find the "perfect" home. There is almost always something, and unfortunately as you've found, when there are time constaints it makes it harder to try to find the perfect home. For all you know, this IS the perfect home.

I don't consider not having a fence a deal breaker at ALL. I just worry about the tie out, and the fact that they have kids and kids by nature are simply careless and overly confidant.


----------

