# e collars



## dawnl (Nov 3, 2016)

hi everyone.
I am thinking of using and e colar on sasha for walks on the leash. At the moment I am using a halti and a hands free lead and she is an angel. But if i just put her normal leash on her she still pulls bad. I would like other peoples opinion on the ecollar.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well first your doing the correct first step here ..."outthink your dog" if I don't know the answer find someone that does, so job well done there! 

To answer your question ... there is nothing wrong with a "Properly used E-collar" in training your dog. But I would speculate that the source of your issues are compounded by these ... "choices"* halti and a hands free lead* and a lack of understanding of how to properly walk your dog ... puppy??? Those choices say if you g the E-Collar route ... find a "Competent Qualified Trainer."

That said if you want to better understand other options ... have a look here.:
Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - Stubborn Guinness!! (Chip??)


And how old is the doggy in question???


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

If you are using a halti and a hands-free lead, you are way out of your league with an e-collar, JMO. I would find an experienced GSD trainer who has lots of experience with e-collars. It's the timing!!!! of the e-collar correction. You need a professional.

Yeah, the two positive behaviorists I worked with separately insisted my GSD could not take their respective class/lessons without a halti. I won't even comment further about that, except that it so did not work. 

My advice--get off the halti and find a club or trainer that deals with GSD. Good luck


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I would find a really good trainer period. Ecollars are good tools but if you don't know how to use them, bad things can happen. Get a good trainer that can help you figure what is best for you and your dog. Internet is not helpful here.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

It's a useful tool if your dog understands your command but blows you off.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I agree with what others are saying, look for a trainer well versed with gsds. Ecollars are great tools in experienced hands, but they can also create a lot of problems when used incorrectly.


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## dawnl (Nov 3, 2016)

She is 14 months old. I have taken her to normal dog obedience and advanced. What do you mean I am more interested in things rather than my dog, She is my life and the reason i joined this blog was to get constructive criticism. that said i rang my trainer today and she was very impressed with the halti and hands free lead. By the way I live in Australia so haven't got as many options as you have over there with the variety of trainers, they are a bit thin on the ground. Anyone got anything constructive to say


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

The "things rather than your dog" was not said by me. I'll stay on point and state that if those tools were effective ... then at 14 months you would not be having this issue. (Unless the dog is a rescue and just her/him??) But "this" is a fairly simple "fix" for an "effective trainer" using a "proper tool." IE a Regular Collar and a Flat Leash a SLL or a Prong Collar. Even using an E -Collar the dog would transition from one of those tools to the E-Collar and leash to no leash and E-Collar ... as I understand it??

And ... your location is not shown ...but I do know we have members in Australia.


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## dawnl (Nov 3, 2016)

Okay. she is not a rescue dog and as previously said I have taken her to obedience classes and advanced obedience. I am not prepared to reveal where I live as previously on this site I have said that my husband is a police officer and we live at the police station. Surely you can see the reason I cant say anymore than I live 3 hours to any decent town and 5 hours from any big city (Australian terms of big city).. So my options are very limited. I am doing the best I can and the pulling is the only thing she is doing, she does not run away from me if let off the lead. She sits, stays, drops and a whole lot more. When we are training in the yard on the lead she is perfect. and when we go to obedience she is also perfect. When we get out of the car at obedience she pulls to go and see the other dogs, and people. As soon as we get into the venue she stops.
This is my dilemma. My trainer and I have been trying to correct her she is getting slightly better but not how I would like her to be, We are thinking it is her age maybe, just need some constructive clues as to how to correct her. Please


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## Themusicmanswife (Jul 16, 2015)

Have you tried a prong? A properly used and fitted prong could be quite useful.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I second the prong. An e collar wouldn't be my first choice for correcting pulling mainly because with your other hand you have to push the button, on the right level which may change and require scrolling, at the right time to be effective ect ect

The prong will do something no matter what every time the dog pulls without any further effort from you. 

I still suggest training with the prong because if you just put the prong on and don't change how you are walking the dog then the dog might just learn to pull through the prong.

PS love thosr guys on self help dog training. Have you seen when Mike dresses up as the dog? Love it


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I removed some rather unhelpful posts and responses. ADMIN


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## WembleyDogsUK (Jul 13, 2016)

> someone who doesn't need a leash or collar


How many problematic dogs you come across in average? One in twenty. The majority of them are good buddies. Of course, you can train not to pull with prong collar, eventually she will stop pulling on soft collar as well, but that is only because she is leashed. The invisible leash tie her to other people, her pack is there, with them. By the way - that is a common problem for people who visit doggy parks too often. Their young dogs start to see their own pack there in the park, and everyday desire to get there is great. One boy has told me that, if to fix his dog to some carriage at 7pm - he will bring him to the doggy park in 15 min with a speed of a rocket (probably leaving his useless owner at home).


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## dogmama57 (Nov 1, 2016)

i have found the prong collar to very helpfull in pulling. may i suggest ,just takes time, patience and consistantsy, till you get desired result. blessings


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dawnl said:


> Okay. she is not a rescue dog and as previously said I have taken her to obedience classes and advanced obedience.


Only need a country not a specific locale.  

I understand that you did take to her classes and stuff and apparently that has been fail?? You're not alone lot's of members have dumped tons of dollars into training and gotten crappy results. Poor trainers dine on less than knowledgeable dog owners ... that's not country dependent. 

The E-Collar and what I was 'trying" to get is whether or not you were willing to pursue other options but that kinda went "sideways." The tool itself is fine ... but it would be wise to find a trainer to instruct you in it's use. And from the sound of things you've said thus far ... that may be extremely difficult??? 

In that vein "Lou Castel" used to say "everything people need to use an E-Collar properly is available on my web site." So here you go.:

How To...

Jeff Gelllman, Sean O'shea and Tylor Muto also have youtube clips and articles available others also but those are guys I'm familiar with. 

If nothing else review those sources and if you still chose the E-Collar route you'll have a more thorough understanding of the process. So ... all that said ... I'm fairly competent and if I chose to use a E-Collar for the first time ... I'd find a trainer ... so there is that. 

But if you are interested in a more low tech approach ... have a look here. Back to basics. :

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html


The first video clip there ...as I said back to basics.


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## WembleyDogsUK (Jul 13, 2016)

> that kinda went "sideways."


OK, Iwill try to make myself not to sound silly for you. If you are such an expert on e-collars, and where or on what, please, tell me, will you redirect your dog when you see first symptoms of "running away disease"? You cannot remove attention from the trigger and give nothing instead. You may say "Onto myself. Start playing ball games". But it wouldn't work, because that what like a magnet pulls from a distance is more important than any balls. The intensity of impatience you can control with e-collar, prong collar, whatever, simply forgetting in which mental state you are leaving your dog. Or, maybe this part is not indifferent? Taking away hot desire and giving nothing instead would leave dog in frustration, and frustration is a reason for aggression - even better! This "instead" made me stuck in limbo, because OP said that she doesn't have many options where else to turn.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

WembleyDogsUK said:


> OK, Iwill try to make myself not to sound silly for you. If you are such an expert on e-collars


Yeah well ...you kinda failed! 





Chip18 said:


> If nothing else review those sources and if you still chose the E-Collar route you'll have a more thorough understanding of the process. So ... all that said ... *I'm fairly competent and if I chose to use a E-Collar for the first time ... I'd find a trainer ... so there is that. *


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

I use the e-collar for both my GSDS. It very rarely gets the button pushed. The 7 year old has been on it for 6 years and the 3 year old for 2 years. I don't know how you could screw a dog up with it,unless you're an a-hole with it.


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## dawnl (Nov 3, 2016)

Thanks for all the very different advice, it all helps believe it or not. I am taking her to a trainer to have a one on one session to show me how to use the ecollar. If she thinks I need it. Maybe its just me and i need to walk her more than once a day with out the halti. 

Could someone explain to me what is so bad about halti's they are sold in every vet surgery i have been to and recommended by the vet. I'm not saying they are right. But dont know why they are so frowned upon. Obviously quite a few people on here have very bad views on them.?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

lrodptl said:


> I use the e-collar for both my GSDS. It very rarely gets the button pushed. The 7 year old has been on it for 6 years and the 3 year old for 2 years. I don't know how you could screw a dog up with it,unless you're an a-hole with it.


Well ...yeah.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dawnl said:


> Thanks for all the very different advice, it all helps believe it or not. I am taking her to a trainer to have a one on one session to show me how to use the ecollar. If she thinks I need it. Maybe its just me and i need to walk her more than once a day with out the halti.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is so bad about halti's they are sold in every vet surgery i have been to and recommended by the vet. I'm not saying they are right. But dont know why they are so frowned upon. Obviously quite a few people on here have very bad views on them.?


A reasonable question. 

I say things like ... "I would not trust a dog to do anything reliably that was tricked into walking properly with a "EZ whatever." No one that deals with dogs with serious freaking issues uses one and you can't "correct a dog with a harness." When I see serious (rehab Aggression) dog trainers, MWD, PPD, and LE K9 trainers using them ... then perhaps I'll rethink my position. And my dogs are family pets but I expect and get a very high level of obedience from them and I use a real tool. 

I will grant that they will/can work on some dogs but by and large not of to much use for the dogs I tend to be drawn to. So those are some of my reasons ...but I'm not a "Pro" ... but this guy is. :

https://www.nitrocanine.com/blog/2015/02/10/the-head-halter-torture-pain-and-nonsense-explained/


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

dawnl said:


> Thanks for all the very different advice, it all helps believe it or not. I am taking her to a trainer to have a one on one session to show me how to use the ecollar. If she thinks I need it. Maybe its just me and i need to walk her more than once a day with out the halti.
> 
> Could someone explain to me what is so bad about halti's they are sold in every vet surgery i have been to and recommended by the vet. I'm not saying they are right. But dont know why they are so frowned upon. Obviously quite a few people on here have very bad views on them.?


They are designed for horses, not dogs, from what I understand. This is what I learned from my experience. My GSD needed a correction, a real correction, for behavior that I did not want him to do. A prong collar or e-collar delivered that correction IN A WAY HE UNDERSTOOD. He did not understand what the halti was trying to tell him, it does not correct in dog language, IMO. When I went to a Schutzhund club the training director said, "Your dog does not know what you DON'T want. You are not communicating clearly. My gSD was clearly miserable in a halti. He loves when the prong comes out--we are going to do something fun--with rules, of course.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I did see a GSD in a head collar out here a few weeks back. I stopped and spoke across the street to the guy (our version of meeting unknow dogs.) Rocky off leash and his GSD in a Head Halter. The difference in our Dogs demeanor was stunning. Rocky stood next to me with his head high ... looking at whatever?? I don't do the focus thing and the GSD across the street?? Who did walk fine on leash if that's all the guy cared about ... then job done. But that dog hung his head downward, the whole time we spoke ... that GSD never looked up??? Dog struck me as looking embarrassed?? No idea just something I observed. The guy said his GSD was three years old. He seemed to be quite pleased. I saw a dog with no spirit and a dog that looked crushed?? 

Not a look on a dog I care for the owner seemed to be good with his dog did not pull! Of course neither did mine ... by my side ... with uh ... no leash. 

But yeah it was a header halter and not a harness as I say I'd not use any of them but maybe the Head halters are even worst??


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## dawnl (Nov 3, 2016)

okay. so this morning I took her for a walk around the block just with the leash. She pulled at first and every time she did i would stop (this makes her sit) then continue on until she pulled again, again stop. Buy 3/4 way through the walk she was walking next to me not pulling at all. I guarantee that tomorrow morning she will initially pull again but I know it will take a little while for the process to sink in. We even stopped to talk to a neighbor and the whole time she just sat next to me. The neighbor is scared of big dogs so I was oh so proud of her for not lunging to say hello and not scare the neighbor.
At the moment I have to take her for a walk at about 4.30 to 5.00 am as it is getting very hot during the day. 
One of the reasons I was using the hands free was because I was having a medical issue with my hands arms and shoulders. I have since had my hands operated on and on medication for the rest so I am feeling a lot stronger. I think I was afraid to use the leash again but am oh so glad I have. Thank you everyone. Anymore advise welcome.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Our girl Zoe did not take well to a halti. A trainer asked my wife to try one with her and it went very bad. Zoe wasn't having any of that and ended up getting cut on a chain link fence during her protest. We gave it up and went with a prong collar which she had no issues with. Every dog is different and you work with the dog in front of you.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

I wouldn't touch an e-collar unless I have a monster on my hands and I have an experienced trainer. There are so many things you can use before you get to that point. How old is the dog?


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## dawnl (Nov 3, 2016)

she is 14 months old.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I am not super anti halti. If the dog tolerates wearing it that is one big battle you don't have. Have an extra leash attached to the halti but walk her on the regular collar. Then if something happens and she gets too strong you have a backup to get her back under control. That would also help teach her how to start weaning off the halter.

My two biggest complaints about the head halter are that dogs often find them so objectionable that you waste days or weeks trying to get the dog to just tolerate wearing it and this is time thatyou can't use it ir get out in the world with your dog. Because if you rush ahead and go with a dog fighting the halter it is a mess. It is almost comical howdogs will fight a head halter but accept a prong no problem.

My other thing with halters is that it is hard to get off them because it is so obvious to the dog that it is on or not. Take it off and you have the same pulling dog who hasn't learned. Have to use it forever.

But if you use a double ended leash or two leashes and the dog wears the halti but doesn't use it all the time that is a good start toward weaning off of it.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

_One of the reasons I was using the hands free was because I was having a medical issue with my hands arms and shoulders. I have since had my hands operated on and on medication for the rest so I am feeling a lot stronger. I think I was afraid to use the leash again but am oh so glad I have. Thank you everyone. Anymore advise welcome._ 


If you can get her solid and reliable enough as she matures you can get a hands free leash. We use one with Demi, my son's service dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dawnl said:


> At the moment I have to take her for a walk at about 4.30 to 5.00 am as it is getting very hot during the day.
> One of the reasons I was using the hands free was because I was having a medical issue with my hands arms and shoulders. I have since had my hands operated on and on medication for the rest so I am feeling a lot stronger. I think I was afraid to use the leash again but am oh so glad I have. Thank you everyone. Anymore advise welcome.


I of course had no idea! Had I known ... I would have made adjustments in my "tone." So my bad ... sorry.


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## dawnl (Nov 3, 2016)

Chip. That is okay maybe i should have mentioned that in the first place (my bad) but thanks for that and I absolutely love the photo its beautiful much better than just the flowers


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

dawnl said:


> hi everyone.
> I am thinking of using and e colar on sasha for walks on the leash. At the moment I am using a halti and a hands free lead and she is an angel. But if i just put her normal leash on her she still pulls bad. I would like other peoples opinion on the ecollar.


The problem with halti's and things like that is that so often, your just restraining your dog through the discomfort and not really training her to walk with you. Maybe the pulling goes away over time, or maybe it gets even stronger when the discomfort goes away.

Where I think you'd have trouble using the ecollar would be in making it clear to her, what you actually want from her. It can be easy to create associations with the wrong things. This is just something that I think is easier with a leash and collar, and focusing on her deciding to keep the leash loose. Whether you use things like just stopping if she's pulling, or going the opposite direction so she has to follow, or a prong with corrections, look for her to make the choice to obey and praise or reward it. 

With her coming out of the car and wanting to drag you to the others, thats something you want to stop right away. Whether you correct her for it or immediately give her some command to follow as she comes out, that kind of thing can be inconsistent enough with all your other work to be confusing to her.


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