# Waterfall diarrhea



## ragingbullm (Nov 25, 2007)

I am about to switch back to raw after being off it for about 8-9 months. My dog is about a year and a half now and I stopped feeding raw mostly because it was time and space-consuming. I've had him on variations of Innova, Wellness, Solid Gold, Natural Balance (regular and the duck/potato version), even Purina One (to see if he was one of those dogs that did well on crappy food) and he*sometimes* has firm stools, most times has squishy stools that are a mix between firm and pudding (they still have a shape to them), and sometimes it literally looks like he's peeing out of his butt.

I asked the vet and he just says change to an allergy formula. Can anyone give me anything specific to ask for concerning his poor stools like some test or something? I don't want to keep switching his food, and I don't switch cold turkey either, so that is not the cause. Is there something else that could cause this besides ingredients? When I did feed raw, sometimes his stool would come out very very very dark brown in a pudding puddle and smell strange, not like poop. Am I overreacting or does this sound like something I should be concerned about? 

I'm going out to buy a week's worth of raw food in a few hours, maybe I should pick something else up to supplement? Is he missing something in his diet? The only other thing he eats is Natural Balance logs as treats, and occasionally I feed him a few pieces of meat leftover from dinner. Which I highly doubt is enough to make that big a deal. Just yesterday he had diarrhea all over the house when I was not home, which is why I need to do something pronto. Imagine opening the door after a long day of work to that :-(. Anyway any advice is appreciated!

P.S. as of now he is eating Natural Balance duck and potato since out of all the foods, he has the most instances of firmer stool with that food. Wellness canned food is a HUGE no-no!!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I"d be very concerned since this has been going on for a while. Might be time for a new vet since this one doesn't know test to find out what exactly your dog is allergic to. 

Saying 'Allergy Formula' is silly, allergic to WHAT? 

Could be allergic to chicken or duck or lamb or grain or preservatives or a host of other things. Knowing exactly what will help you get him on a food that will stop the waterfall. Mien Luther was allergic to chicken. If he snatched a piece of chicken off the dinner table, he'd have violent dire rear all over the house.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I assume the Giardia Antigen (not the regular fecal) has been run?


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## ragingbullm (Nov 25, 2007)

No it has not? I'm kind of looking for a list of things I could ask about or have him test for. I'm scheduling his neuter in a couple weeks and if they can do a couple tests at the same time it'd be good since he does not fancy the vet office too much. I did remember reading somewhere that Giardia-infected stools look greasy, but his don't really look greasy, and occasionally they looked like they were encased in mucus or something. Thanks for all the help so far!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

The Poop Expert Panel will soon join in, complete with Jen's Dancing Banana, I'm sure!







But what about TLI tests because maybe some bad bacteria are establishing a co-op in his small bowel, B12 levels, Giardian antigen as suggested, have the vet test for EPI-- when the pancreas isn't working quite right.

Also, to be honest, if he's just a year and a half and has been on THAT many foods, even transitioned gradually.. that can be an issue, because the body and gut need to adapt each time-- and the poor owner doesn't quite know (unless you've kept a "poop log"LOL been there, done that!







) exactly on which foods, if any, there was an improvement, no matter how slight.

Okay Poop Experts! I am sure many will give great guidance to help Jack.


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## DHau (Feb 24, 2007)

Check out my thread at: 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...true#Post912675

There may be some things for you to consider in your dog's food. My allergy testing was for the basics.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Just my two cents, but unless my dogs are stable (good health - good poops) I don't give any vaccinations or have any surerical procedures done unless it is an emergency. The dog's system is all ready taxed, adding any strain to it will only make the matters worse.

Val


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Quote: test for EPI-- when the pancreas isn't working quite right.


 Duh, I should have thought of that since I had an EPI dog... 

I'm still thinking new vet though, you keep mentioning these issues and the dog has never been regular so obviously something is wrong and the vet isn't taking you seriously. There is such a notion as 'shepherd stomach' but it always has a medical basis.


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

Have you introduced a good probiotic supplement to his diet? I would load him up on good bacteria and a mild diet of boiled chicken, brown rice, and some canned pumpkin will keep his stool firm. Because you are going back to raw (yay!) gradually introduce a piece of that chicken raw with the boiled pieces. 

Probiotic supplement after ruling out parasites would be my idea. Not the probiotics from yogurt--most dogs are lactose intolerant and that will irritate him even more. Good luck!

Laura


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Just my experience - I'd start with Giardia Antigen and go from there.
According to an article in the Whole Dog Journal last summer (perhaps summer before now) Giarida is much more prevelent than was once thought in the US. 

Dante had bad poops for months and months and months and months...and...well you get the idea.

2 regular Giardia fecals came back negative so we tested for EPI and SIBO, at the same time tested for Salmonella (made my then vet feel better 'cause I was feeding a partial raw diet) and they ran the Giardia Antigen.
Everything was good, 'cept the Giardia Antigen came back positive.

So a couple rounds of antibiotics and moving back to 3x a day feedings and we've never looked back.


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## ragingbullm (Nov 25, 2007)

Alright I'm going to ask for the Giardia antigen, ask if he can check for SIBO and EPI and ask if he has heard of shepherd stomach. Can anyone recommend a good probiotic? I'm also going to ask him about an allergy test, since I'm certain it has to be something concerning his food. But I have a question, I was reading the other thread by DHau and saw other things listed like human dander and things you don't necessarily ingest. Could those kinds of things cause diarrhea or would that allergy show up as skin rashes? He has no raw spots, just soft stools and occasionally bad diarrhea.

Also I didn't mean to make the vet sound like a complete jerk or anything, he didn't flat out say try an allergy food, it was kind of my fault for not hammering him more and going more into details about the possible causes since I have the bad habit of asking questions and not asking for the 'why' so to speak. I'm going to call him on Monday and ask about these things. Thanks guys, you always pull through when I need help!! :-D

P.S. Oh yeah and I will ask if it would be better to hold off the neuter while we figure out what is wrong with his poop. Thanks WiscTiger I didn't even think of that!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I would ask the vet to do an allergy panel. It could be as simple as he's allergic to the base meat of chicken or duck or lamb.

For probiotic, I've used the dannon one at the gorcery store.

Shepherd stomach is just a blanket term for any of the common stomach troubles the breed has. For example, my pup is lactose intolerant, my Rex had EPI and Mien Luther was allergic to chicken, totally different problems but all refered to as shepherd stomach. 

LOL, I've actually met quite a few other GSD people in the park or on the street with their dog and been asked 'How's her/his stomach'. Then I hear their tale of woe with their dog.


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