# GOOD aggression



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Since there are rarely good aggression threads, I'm sharing last nights muzzlework video here . This is good, strong, confident aggression


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

And the second half of this vid (first half is OB with my male not in aggression)


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Thanks for posting this!! I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE watching your dogs work!!  Makes me really look forward to Grim growing up! :thumbup:


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Katya can only do muzzle work for a month, while we are waiting on a titanium crown for a damaged canine lol. She will be off the charts aggressive by Dec


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

AND, 5 days before the first video, she got her CGC lol. GOOD aggression ;-)


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

I agree!! Just out of curiosity... I hope this doesn't start a war...did you use an E-collar for training your 2 that I've seen work? If so, at what stage of training did you use it?


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

One dog who I think of who is a perfect example of this based on talking with others - her owner is on this site so I will let them speak more on her - is Billie z Liberatore. Just by one video and some research (talking to others) I am impressed. She seems like my type of female and I hope to someday soon, speak with her owner about her - as soon as I have some time away from work!


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Jag said:


> I agree!! Just out of curiosity... I hope this doesn't start a war...did you use an E-collar for training your 2 that I've seen work? If so, at what stage of training did you use it?


I rotate tools based on what im doing and use nothing but voice and hands 50% of the time. I use the e collar double boxed, and exactly as Lou Castle describes. I almost exclusively use electric on my male. Prong causes too much conflict, and stern voice causes enough to ruin a session. Electric is impersonal and our clearest path of communication. Also use the vibrate as a positive mark with both dogs


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Crap. Googled that dig and this thread showed up. Google is *really* on point these days.

There was a vid but they cut the film after every strike. Can't see what the dog does after the strike :-/


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

hunterisgreat said:


> I rotate tools based on what im doing and use nothing but voice and hands 50% of the time. *I use the e collar double boxed,* and exactly as Lou Castle describes. I almost exclusively use electric on my male. *Prong causes too much conflict, and stern voice causes enough to ruin a session.* Electric is impersonal and our clearest path of communication. *Also use the vibrate as a positive mark with both dogs*


OK, thank you! I'm assuming you started using this during the training for IPO, also? I will probably have more questions for you, but I will ask them in PM. I know it's late and you probably don't have the time right now, but my main question is... can you elaborate on the bolded sections please?


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I use the e-collar on my male - he is EXTREMELY sensitive to me via prong or verbal so I use this and it has worked wonders. I follow Lou's protocol as well more or less (have gotten some instruction from other trainers I work/worked with as well). 

I have yet to use it on my female, but may in the future, still not sure on that one though.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> Crap. Googled that dig and this thread showed up. Google is *really* on point these days.
> 
> There was a vid but they cut the film after every strike. Can't see what the dog does after the strike :-/


I noticed that too, and would love to see more. I am very excited to have some time to chat with Ang about her program. She basically carries everything I am looking for in terms of lines/vision for the breed.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Jag said:


> OK, thank you! I'm assuming you started using this during the training for IPO, also? I will probably have more questions for you, but I will ask them in PM. I know it's late and you probably don't have the time right now, but my main question is... can you elaborate on the bolded sections please?


By double boxed I mean there are two receivers on the dog... Better contact, you can work lower stim levels, less focused pressures from contacts, and most importantly no steerage effect from one box and the dogs tendency to move away from the stim

It has been scientifically tested and proven that cortisol levels (stress hormone) are lowest with e collars (used properly), then prongs (used properly), then verbal only. In my experience with my male this is blatantly obvious, as he can take whatever pressure a helper can give, but an "angry" NO from me can deeply hurt him and ruin our day. Stim let's me tell him he is wrong, without any emotional blowback. 

When using the collar, vibrate is used as a clicker. I command, and it is followed either by stim or vib based on their compliance


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I use the e-collar on my male - he is EXTREMELY sensitive to me via prong or verbal so I use this and it has worked wonders. I follow Lou's protocol as well more or less (have gotten some instruction from other trainers I work/worked with as well).
> 
> I have yet to use it on my female, but may in the future, still not sure on that one though.


Males are more sensitive. It's the bitches that are cold hearted  lol. Every bite I've ever gotten has been from a female lmao


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Definitely have to agree with you there - at least, that's the way it is in my house! 

I am ALWAYS apologizing to our helper after he works my girl, he always laughs and says he likes it rough!  LMAO!


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Definitely have to agree with you there - at least, that's the way it is in my house!
> 
> I am ALWAYS apologizing to our helper after he works my girl, he always laughs and says he likes it rough!  LMAO!


Katya repeatedly went for the helpers groin last night... And I have running gag reel of all the times she has bitten helpers... Yet everyone is scared of jäger lol.


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Hunter- at what age did you start using the E-collar? Also, you know the vid you posted of Jager where every time you adjusted your stance he adjusted his so he remained in the correct 'heel' position? THAT is what I want to eventually have out of Grim. Some people find obedience boring. When it's really good obedience with total focus on the handler, I really like it! 

Thank you for your explanation!


----------

