# how to pick a trainer or training facility



## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Me and my dog have a Shutzhund future, but for now I just want to find a place to get the basics. I was warned, once, to be careful to not train out of Yoschi what it is he'll need for schutzhund.... when calling places, what specifically should I ask... I'm looking for a basic beginner group class for now. Are there different styles of training? Is there a specific training type I need? 

Thanks
Joe


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

May I ask what you can train out of your dog that it will need for schutzhund? The only thing that I thought would be a problem was that in regular training my dog was taught to check in with me. When she was being evaluated for schutzhund she did check in with me quite a bit at first, but after a minute or two she really got into it. How old is your dog?


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

llombardo said:


> May I ask what you can train out of your dog that it will need for schutzhund? The only thing that I thought would be a problem was that in regular training my dog was taught to check in with me. When she was being evaluated for schutzhund she did check in with me quite a bit at first, but after a minute or two she really got into it. How old is your dog?


I'm not sure what they were talking about.. maybe, just guessing, teaching to not bite at all or some such,, taught not to bark etc.. again, just guessing
Yoschi is 4.5 months old


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You can do general obedience classes, but I'd train with a club now....because positioning and focus is important. 
If you aren't starting with it now, it'll make it more difficult as your dog gets older. The training techniques may be very different. Plus you'll learn so much watching others handling their dogs in the IPO club, that you'd never get with a pet obedience class.

I'd rather put my time into my end goals and not just go to a pet class because I wanted to get the basics.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> You can do general obedience classes, but I'd train with a club now....because positioning and focus is important.
> If you aren't starting with it now, it'll make it more difficult as your dog gets older. The training techniques may be very different. Plus you'll learn so much watching others handling their dogs in the IPO club, that you'd never get with a pet obedience class.
> 
> I'd rather put my time into my end goals and not just go to a pet class because I wanted to get the basics.


There are two clubs in my area,, lonestar is not accepting new members and Austin schutzhund has never gotten back with me, despite several attempts..


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> I'm not sure what they were talking about.. maybe, just guessing, teaching to not bite at all or some such,, taught not to bark etc.. again, just guessing
> Yoschi is 4.5 months old


Your basic training classes will probably be done with positive training. The classes will teach you how to train your dog. You will need obedience to go into the schutzhund. You need obedience for any sport. Basic classes will teach you basic commands, recall, etc. A puppy should be taught not to bite and no one wants a barker either. There is lots of training with the schutzhund, BUT all the training in the world will not qualify your dog if the temperament isn't right. There is nothing you can do about that, it's in the genes. They will look for a VERY stable temperament(with people/dogs) and prey drive. Your dog will have to have a on/off switch that is reliable.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

llombardo has Robyn been back after her evaluation?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> You can do general obedience classes, but I'd train with a club now....because positioning and focus is important.
> If you aren't starting with it now, it'll make it more difficult as your dog gets older. The training techniques may be very different. Plus you'll learn so much watching others handling their dogs in the IPO club, that you'd never get with a pet obedience class.
> 
> I'd rather put my time into my end goals and not just go to a pet class because I wanted to get the basics.


I disagree with this and I feel that before one decides to go through a club, they should check it out. I was very disappointed in my local club. My dog at 8 months was better trained, less reactive, and all around a better dog then every other GSD there and they were all mature GSD's. The teacher felt so bad that she put us on the other side of the room away from the aggressive dogs(all of them were aggressive) I learned much more and so did my dog with the general obedience classes. I will say that the training techniques were very similar with the local club and all other classes I took.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

i would visit some training centers and see how they train.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Gharrissc said:


> llombardo has Robyn been back after her evaluation?


No, I put her in agility instead. I've been in contact with them and I've continued working with her prey drive and obedience in case I change my mind. She loved it then and I think she would love it even more now, I'm just not sure I have as much time that is needed for that sport.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

huntergreen said:


> i would visit some training centers and see how they train.


:thumbup: This would be my point, but I don't know how to write things in a short version


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> My dog at 8 months was better trained, less reactive, and all around a better dog then every other GSD there and they were all mature GSD's. The teacher felt so bad that she put us on the other side of the room away from the aggressive dogs(all of them were aggressive)


You aren't doing SchH now though, are you? You can't judge the sport or dogs behaviors by one club. 
I still recommend getting with a club if the goal is to train in the sport.
I took pet class with Karlo, just to socialize him to other young dogs, but the clubs are where we actually trained as far as my handling skills/footwork and the dogs positioning...also tracking is a part of it, and that can be done on your own, but I like having other eyes on us so I can be critiqued. So many things to work on, and an early foundation is important, IMO.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> You aren't doing SchH now though, are you? You can't judge the sport or dogs behaviors by one club.
> I still recommend getting with a club if the goal is to train in the sport.
> I took pet class with Karlo, just to socialize him to other young dogs, but the clubs are where we actually trained as far as my handling skills/footwork and the dogs positioning...also tracking is a part of it, and that can be done on your own, but I like having other eyes on us so I can be critiqued. So many things to work on, and an early foundation is important, IMO.


The SchH and the training are through the same club..I didn't have an issue with the SchH part, but the training part is a disaster. Oh I agree that an early foundation is important, but do we even know if this dog will be able to do SchH? I wouldn't want to train somewhere for something and then find out that it isn't the right thing to begin with. How old is this dog?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

llombardo said:


> :thumbup: This would be my point, but I don't know how to write things in a short version




short version comes easy when you have lousy typing skills. lol


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## Sherry (Mar 2, 2012)

huntergreen said:


> i would visit some training centers and see how they train.


What should an owner be looking for in "how they train"?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

If you want to do schh, start now with a schh club. 
Are any of these within 3 hours of you? If so, I'd try contacting and attending their training:

USA - South Central Clubs
 Austin SchH Club
 Daniel Grayson
Austin, TX 
512-263-5441 
Big Country Schutzhund Club
 Joyce Salinas
Albany, TX 
325-762-0484 
Cajun Team Schutzhund Club
_was Central Texas SchH Club_
 René Gelsomino
Luling, LA 
985-785-6506 
 DFW Working Dogs
 Randall Hoadley
Duncanville, TX 
214-440-7447 
Greater Dallas Working Dog Club
 Kathy May
Scurry, TX
214-543-0977
Greater Houston SchH Club
Dr. Dena McGowan
Vidor, TX 
409-769-7450
Lone Star SchH Club
 Jessy Gabriel
Hutto, TX 
512-971-7243 
San Gabriel Hund Verein
 Karen Kroyer 
Austin, TX area 
 United Fido Schutzhund Club
 Clement Dang
Sunnyvale, TX 
469-855-0418 
Big Country Schutzhund Club
 Joyce Salinas
Albany, TX 
325-762-0484 
Coastal Bend SchH Club
 Alex Amonett
McAllen, TX 
361-362-7415 
*Affiliated Clubs*

_New or Forming Clubs in Texas_
San Antonio Working Dog Club 
Windy Pool
Corpus Christi, Tx 
512-771-0305 

http://www.gsdca-wda.org/documents/pdf/clubs/Clublist11092012.pdf
wda clubs


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## Sherry (Mar 2, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> If you want to do schh, start now with a schh club.
> Are any of these within 3 hours of you? If so, I'd try contacting and attending their training:


Several of them are. Thank you for this extensive list!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

No problem. Are you in TX? Not sure if this is an official club yet, but Kim Rall has also started up a new club: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/194786-houston-hundesport.html


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

llombardo said:


> The SchH and the training are through the same club..I didn't have an issue with the SchH part, but the training part is a disaster. Oh I agree that an early foundation is important, but do we even know if this dog will be able to do SchH? I wouldn't want to train somewhere for something and then find out that it isn't the right thing to begin with. How old is this dog?


Yoschi is 4.5 months old and he has been evaluated. The man who did his evaluation said he was perfect. He's a well mannered, social, active go getter etc. He makes himself at home with anyone in any situation... he has yet to show any fear or aggression ... aside from his evaluation, both parents are sch3 and classified as master trackers...


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> If you want to do schh, start now with a schh club.
> Are any of these within 3 hours of you? If so, I'd try contacting and attending their training:
> 
> USA - South Central Clubs
> ...


You under estimate how big Texas is... if the club is much more than an hour away, it will cut into my ability to balance training with the needs of my family.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> You under estimate how big Texas is... if the club is much more than an hour away, it will cut into my ability to balance training with the needs of my family.


I'm not estimating anything - you asked for suggestions, I gave you a list of clubs and said if any are within 3hrs, try visiting them if you are serious about training in the sport. If there are lifestyle, work, or other limitations that preclude you from participating actively in the sport, (not meant to sound callus) but that's your issue and it is what it is. The sport takes a lot of time, personal investment, practice, and travel. Most of us travel 1-2hrs or more to get to our clubs - that's just the way it is. Not many clubs in this country so we travel further to accomplish our training goals. Some obedience, AKC trial, pet trainers are excellent and can offer a solid foundation for schh or any dog sport, but if you want to do the sport, start the foundation and training with those that train and participate in the sport. Figure out what is feasible for you - I am just giving suggestions based on your goal of training your dog in the sport. Aspiration is one thing; the reality of it coming into fruition depends on you.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> I'm not estimating anything - you asked for suggestions, I gave you a list of clubs and said if any are within 3hrs, try visiting them if you are serious about training in the sport. If there are lifestyle, work, or other limitations that preclude you from participating actively in the sport, (not meant to sound callus) but that's your issue and it is what it is. The sport takes a lot of time, personal investment, practice, and travel. Most of us travel 1-2hrs or more to get to our clubs - that's just the way it is. Not many clubs in this country so we travel further to accomplish our training goals. Some obedience, AKC trial, pet trainers are excellent and can offer a solid foundation for schh or any dog sport, but if you want to do the sport, start the foundation and training with those that train and participate in the sport. Figure out what is feasible for you - I am just giving suggestions based on your goal of training your dog in the sport. Aspiration is one thing; the reality of it coming into fruition depends on you.


Yep, "it is what it is"
I have plenty of time...... but..... there are only two clubs on that list less than two hours away... I can't do a four hour round trip plus time training ... of the two clubs, one is not accepting new members and the other is unresponsive to emails and phone calls.... but,, finding a club and my commitment to the sport was not the point of this thread.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

You want to do schh, but you don't have the time/etc to invest into training right now. Will this somehow change in 6-12 months? Is it feasible to train this dog in schh given your time and travel limitations? 

So in the meantime you want to do pet obedience - this is ok, but like others have said, what is your end goal? If you want a foundation to spring you into schh, then find and train with people that do the sport. If that is not possible for you, find another venue and enjoy it. 



Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> Me and my dog have a *Shutzhund future*, but for now I just want to find a place to get the basics. Are there different styles of training? Is there a specific training type I need?


Yes, there are different methods to train and different ways that different trainers approach training. There are different styles of training. Some trainers are good, some are bad. No way to tell without visiting with the trainer, getting feedback from locals, and seeing if the trainer is a good fit for you. I have visited several trainers and clubs - I jive with some, not with others. I train with the ones that I get along with and can progress/learn from. There is overlap in methods, but depending on what your end goal is, train with those that have experience and ability in that area. There is a specific type of training you need depending on your goal. So...back to what I was saying and you dismissed it as "not what the thread is about": what is your end goal? What is a feasible end goal?


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> You want to do schh, but you don't have the time/etc to invest into training right now. Will this somehow change in 6-12 months? Is it feasible to train this dog in schh given your time and travel limitations?
> 
> So in the meantime you want to do pet obedience - this is ok, but like others have said, what is your end goal? If you want a foundation to spring you into schh, then find and train with people that do the sport. If that is not possible for you, find another venue and enjoy it.
> 
> ...


Geez,, will y'all get off my back about the time issue,, I would have the time if one of the two closer clubs would let me on...lol
I'm jusy not wanting to sit in idle while I wait for a spot to open with the one club of for the other club to get back to me


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

My end goal is a well mannered combination house pet/sch titled dog


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Huh? Get off your back? I have better things to do than give you a hard time for no reason - I am brainstorming with questions that I would ask of _myself _when deciding on feasible training options for my puppy. Not sure what type of answer you were expecting 

Good luck - hope you figure out the right fit for your puppy and you.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Let me revise my statement,, I have the time to travel further than 2hrs,, but would much rather not. Just because most people "have to" ... I don't ... I have the option of private training at $75 an hour which would be less expensive than a six hour round trip... but at that price,, I'd like to get some basics out of the way for less money ... I didn't mention this before because it wasn't necessary ... the guy that evaluated Yoschi works out of Canine Headquarters in Hutton,Tx. They do specialized training in a one on one format ... they do schutzhund, Personal protection training , etc etc at a cost of $450 per six session block.
Dog Training, Canine Headquarters, Austin, Texas, TX


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't think qb was "on your back",,they gave a viable answer to your questions.

Ok so you don't want to travel 2-3 hours if you don't have to, I can't say I blame you.

The 450 for six sessions at the one close to you breaks down to 75 an hour. I guess I would figure, for that 75.00 how much would it cost me in gas/time spent to get to a place that was 2-3 hours away? I think I'd probably rather spend that 75 an hour, IF that's the route you want to go.

Just to add, I know nothing of the trainer/facility you listed...Look up Renee here (Ladylaw),,she is in TX and may be able to steer you to something or reference someone in your area..I know she knows Kim Rhall and recommends her but not sure how close to you she is.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Price doesn't equate with quality or inherent worth of a trainer. The club I like training with best at the moment charges 15$/session - couple hrs each way to get there and I stay there about 3-6hrs depending on how many people and how many times my dog gets worked. I have paid much more and amounts in-between - traveled more, traveled less. Proximity, price, and the like has never correlated with a trainer's ability in my experience. 

Set up a session, figure out which trainer, and type of training works for you. For me, I went/visited several clubs/trainers, figured out who fits best with my dog and my training goals, and I train with those that can help me progress. I visit more than one club and more than one trainer - each gives me a different outlook and perspective. I like how one tracks, I like how another teaches dumbbell, I like another for helper work etc. I don't like staying with one club or trainer - I like to constantly expose myself to different methods/ideas. Visit the trainers, see how they are, and go from there. What fits for one person might not fit for you so go forth and try it out to see what works.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Also - you might need to do a lot of the obedience and focus legwork on your own. Michael Ellis, marker training, positive reinforcement, focus work - this can all be done by reading, watching DVDs etc.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

My current plan is to start with some basic obedience classes (hence my original question) follow up with the private lessons with maybe some overlap ... all the while continue to try to get in touch with Austin Schutzhund club or talk the lone star sch. Club into letting me join 
Of course, I would rather go the club route, but with respect to time, I'd rather spend more money to have more time to actually train Yoschi while not completely neglecting my family


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Club is also not the answer to all your training needs. I do most of the ob on my own and club is to proof it. My first club, nobody ever worked with me on tracking and there was barely any instruction on ob. Tracking lessons I take with a trainer, but practice is done on my own. Club is mostly for proofing skills and helper work for protection. Having others spot problems and fine tune your routine is also the bonus of a club. But you will have to do a lot of the basics and foundation work by yourself - reading books/articles and watching training videos helps.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

At this time, if you are adamant on going to a pet class....I'd work w/ your pup focusing only on you. Proof it with the other dogs/people as distractions. 
Train sits, downs, recalls and focused heeling. Ask the instructor if you can do your own thing respectfully. 
I would also make sure you don't ask too much of your pup and go slow, reward often!
As your pup gets older then I'd use a ball/tug for keeping the drive built up and fade out the food lure. 
I would get some dvd's from bowwowflix on focused heeling and other exercises(Michael Ellis's are good) There are some good tracking video's there too!
I'd get in touch with the club though, because there may be someone in the club that lives very local to you....you may be better off paying a member w/ experience like that doing some private lessons than paying a facility to do pet obedience.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

I can't recommend bowwowflix.....they don't pay royalties to the people who make the videos, nor do they pay a licensing fee that would allow videos to be rented out. I heard that from someone who makes training videos, and is reluctant to make any more until that is changed.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Hmmm, so how do they get away with it? You'd think legally they would have to pay out royalties or whatever to disperse them. Especially with the inventory they have.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Right now I'm mostly playing with a flirt poll and teaching him to fetch... I've done a bit of basic "sit and down" with him but that's it... the lady I got him from suggested I not start training him until 4-5 months of age... she has also offered to do private lessons for about $50 an hour... but she has never titled a dog in sch. , but she has a room literally full of trophies and ribbons from showing dogs.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

DunRingill said:


> I can't recommend bowwowflix.....they don't pay royalties to the people who make the videos, nor do they pay a licensing fee that would allow videos to be rented out. I heard that from someone who makes training videos, and is reluctant to make any more until that is changed.


TawzerDog (who produces most videos) now also offers rentals. I have no idea if they pay royalties etc but it's another source to look into.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> My end goal is a well mannered combination house pet/sch titled dog


I think you need to decide which is your higher priority. Many people travel more than an hour each way, and sometimes several hours for training, but if that's not something you're wiling or able to do right now, that's fine. 

But one of the things about Schutzhund is that it can be very time consuming, so if you're fully committed to it you may have to make that time and travel sacrifice to pursue it, depending on where you live and your access to clubs. I don't think it's getting on your back to point that out, it's just being realistic. If you aren't wiling or able to make that time commitment, then maybe Schutzhund isn't right for you right now. 

If you decide you're serious about it and want to make the commitment, you're probably better off starting with the right foundation as early as possible, which will determine the kind of training you do now. Otherwise, work towards the "well mannered house pet" part of your goal for the time being, and if your situations changes you can work on the "Schutzhund titled dog" part later. But be aware that what you do now may affect what you do later. 

Everyone has limited time and financial resources, and we all need to make choices based on our available resources when determining our goals.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

onyx'girl said:


> Hmmm, so how do they get away with it? You'd think legally they would have to pay out royalties or whatever to disperse them. Especially with the inventory they have.


Dunno! But there are attorneys being consulted, so something might change eventually.....but right now bowowflix just buys the video for the same price you would pay for it, and rents it out. Which very much cuts into the minimal profit dog trainers make off these videos! Some trainers are going to "on demand" videos that you have access to for a limited amount of time. Interesting concept, and I can see why they're doing it.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

I've decided to do private lessons with my breeder/importer (whatever you call her ) She's been showing GSD's her whole life, and she's no youngster...lol... besides, she's from Germany, that has to count for something!! LOL

question: would she be called a "breeder" or a "broker"??? She has a partner in Germany that finds her quality dogs to be imported for sale to the USA... She doesn't actually do any breeding ... her website is 
Elite German Shepherds - Home


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

broker

but I think this is one great accomplishment! Taken from her _about us_: 

Have helped hundreds of children keep the 
boogie men away at night. :wub:


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> broker


Thought so...
Thanks


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> broker


She has a kennel, grooming etc. Its a small time operation. She never has more than a half dozen dogs for sale at any given time ... she says she focuses on quality not quantity... she does private training at $50 an hour... from what I gather, most training is done with prior clients... she has a room full of trophies from Germany and here, complete with pictures of her on the podium... one show, she took the top three spots.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> ... the lady I got him from suggested I not start training him until 4-5 months of age... she has also offered to do private lessons for about $50 an hour... but she has never titled a dog in sch. , but she has a room literally full of trophies and ribbons from showing dogs.


I am confused. Your broker/puppy seller has never titled a dog in schutzhund, but she has schutzhund titled dogs? Does she train her own dogs and then pass them off to a professional to handle? Does she buy then already titled? 

Personally, I wouldn't pay someone to help me train my dog if she doesn't train her own dogs. 

Be very careful about pet training if you have any thought about competitive stuff later on. You don't want to have any "bad habits" from strictly pet training that you'll have to undo later on (like straight sits and downs, etc.). A trainer who does straight pet stuff might not be aware of what a competitive dog needs. So I would go with the trainer that you currently have access to that is able to give you the training that will best translate to later schutzhund, in case you ever do get to that point with a club.
Sheilah


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

sit said:


> I am confused. Your broker/puppy seller has never titled a dog in schutzhund, but she has schutzhund titled dogs? Does she train her own dogs and then pass them off to a professional to handle? Does she buy then already titled?
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't pay someone to help me train my dog if she doesn't train her own dogs.
> 
> ...


I believe, but am not sure, she purchased adult dogs which were already titled... I am fairly certain she knows what to teach for basic obedience with a schutzhund future... she has certainly been around the block, so to speak....the thing is, I can pay as I go with her... the place that offered me private schutzhund training wants $450.00 up front, which I don't have at the moment. 
I tried to ask what exactly I should look for in obedience training with a schh future and never really got a straight answer... most everyone says join a club, which I'm actively pursuing.. but I'm eager to get started


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't think I'd pay $50 per hour either...I pay $25 to have good helperwork and that person is getting bit by my dog. And it is more than an hours worth of training. My personal trainer that I pay $30 is for about 3 hours of training and we do quite a bit of diversified training. I almost feel like I'm taking advantage of her facility and expertise. 
If you feel you get your $ worth it's all good, and the progress you see is where it matters. 
By the way, if your trainer isn't giving you feedback/criticism, it isn't constructive training


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I don't think I'd pay $50 per hour either...I pay $25 to have good helperwork and that person is getting bit by my dog. And it is more than an hours worth of training. My personal trainer that I pay $30 is for about 3 hours of training and we do quite a bit of diversified training. I almost feel like I'm taking advantage of her facility and expertise.
> If you feel you get your $ worth it's all good, and the progress you see is where it matters.
> By the way, if your trainer isn't giving you feedback/criticism, it isn't constructive training


Trust me, I've called around... the going rate starts at $50 an hour in my area... at least she has age and experience,,, the guy offering me private schh training at $75 an hour is in his early 20's... he may very well be worth it.. but for that amount of money, I want years worth of experience.
If nothing else, I know her to be a loud outspoken very opinionated German lady..


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> I tried to ask what exactly I should look for in obedience training with a schh future and never really got a straight answer... most everyone says join a club, which I'm actively pursuing.. but I'm eager to get started


If I were you, I would ask these questions in the schutzhund forum. That is where you'll find the members with the most experience in that sport. 

I can't give you particular differences or similarities in training for a pet and training for schutzhund. I never raised a puppy specifically for schutzhund. My interest in tracking came after Tanner's early puppyhood. I do know that there are certain things that you want to encourage in a schutzhund prospect that wouldn't necessarily be part of pet training. Go to the schutzhund forum and ask. You'll get good answers to specific questions there.

I would not automatically trust a trainer who has only been around the "I buy my dogs titled" block. They might know how to push the buttons on a trained dog, but do they know how to install the buttons on an untrained dog? Those are two totally different activities.
Sheilah


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If a puppy genetically has 'it' doing some obedience won't harm it. Doing bitework with an unskilled helper won't be good, and I don't recommend it. I'd also try to get some tracking instruction instilled now while pup is a sponge. I agree, conformation showing is not the same as doing sportwork.

And like I posted way back up....try to find a club member that may live near you to mentor you. I do know that most clubs have members spread out and about and most are more than willing to have someone nearby to train with mid week when they aren't at club. We should all be so lucky!


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

sit said:


> If I were you, I would ask these questions in the schutzhund forum. That is where you'll find the members with the most experience in that sport.
> 
> I can't give you particular differences or similarities in training for a pet and training for schutzhund. I never raised a puppy specifically for schutzhund. My interest in tracking came after Tanner's early puppyhood. I do know that there are certain things that you want to encourage in a schutzhund prospect that wouldn't necessarily be part of pet training. Go to the schutzhund forum and ask. You'll get good answers to specific questions there.
> 
> ...


She does have a room,literally, filled with trophies ... she said we were only going to work on basic obedience and tracking... no bitework or protection... only enough to give me a leg up when starting with a club... in response to Onyx... I'm definitely going to take your advice if I can get any of these clubs to respond to me.. I've sent out emails and left phone messages with at least half a dozen clubs


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> She does have a room,literally, filled with trophies ... she said we were only going to work on basic obedience and tracking...


A room full of trophies means nothing if she hasn't had a part in training the dogs who won those trophies.

Look at it this way. Would you let someone do open heart surgery on you if the diplomas on their wall had been earned by someone else? 

I am not saying that your broker doesn't have training experience. I don't know her, so I couldn't say. But if she buys her dogs already titled, where does her work play into it? Other than a room full of trophies that she may or may not have earned through her personal effort, you need to discover what her training experience is. 

This is not meant as an insult, but you don't sound like the most experienced dog owner. Would you be able to tell the difference between someone who talks a good game but can't back it up and someone who can actually train dogs? Perhaps you would be better served by dealing with a trainer who can point to their personal accomplishments as a trainer.

Would you be able to ask the one club that got back to you if they could recommend anyone for you to work with while you wait for a spot to open up with them?
Sheilah


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

sit said:


> A room full of trophies means nothing if she hasn't had a part in training the dogs who won those trophies.
> 
> Look at it this way. Would you let someone do open heart surgery on you if the diplomas on their wall had been earned by someone else?
> 
> ...


According to her she did train all her dogs that won those trophies. Her dogs were all owner trained. According to her and her website she has 30 years of professional training experience... you're right, I don't have any real experience training dogs in a competitive manner.... I did ask the club that responded to me for suggestions,, they haven't gotten back yet. I also asked them if any members would be interested in helping me one on one if I paid them. But for the moment, I can at least get started. All the places that advertise for specialized training want a minimum of $75 an hour for private and on up to $1800 a week for in house training. Seems Austin has dozens and dozens of dog training group classes and very few options for schutzhund without spending a fortune.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If your goal is SchH I would focus on finding a SchH club and not paying a private trainer for obedience. I can't believe joining a USCA, DVG, or WDA club would end up costing more than $75/hr. Most clubs are a few hundred dollars per year.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Liesje said:


> If your goal is SchH I would focus on finding a SchH club and not paying a private trainer for obedience. I can't believe joining a USCA, DVG, or WDA club would end up costing more than $75/hr. Most clubs are a few hundred dollars per year.


Of the clubs I've contacted, only one responded with a brief email stating they aren't accepting new members... the others aren't responding... I've been looking for a month now.. I've sent emails and phoned every club within a two hour drive of here.
Fyi it cost me $75 just to get him evaluated...


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> According to her she did train all her dogs that won those trophies. Her dogs were all owner trained.


Sorry, my confusion! You said she has "never titled a dog in schutzhund". I wasn't sure what that meant, and when I asked you said you believed she purchased her dogs already titled.

Training beyond a simple companion-type obedience class can be very time consuming and expensive. There is no getting around that. 

Good luck with your puppy.
Sheilah


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

sit said:


> Sorry, my confusion! You said she has "never titled a dog in schutzhund". I wasn't sure what that meant, and when I asked you said you believed she purchased her dogs already titled.
> 
> Training beyond a simple companion-type obedience class can be very time consuming and expensive. There is no getting around that.
> 
> ...


I realize I'm in for a long haul financially,, which is why I'm trying to get the best bang for my buck... but, I have to admit, it's been an up hill battle just getting started.. once I get started, I'll feel better about all this, right now I'm mildly frustrated .... reminds me of when I first got into koi and a lot of people in my circle of friends as well as online said I was in over my head... until I came home with three trophies from my very first show


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Hey, nothing wrong with getting more bang for your buck! I am all for saving money when I can. Just make sure that you aren't cutting corners. In the long run that will never save you anything! In fact, it usually ends up costing you more.

Remember, too, that dogs are not fish! You really can't equate screwing up training a dog with screwing up training a fish. 
Sheilah


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

sit said:


> Hey, nothing wrong with getting more bang for your buck! I am all for saving money when I can. Just make sure that you aren't cutting corners. In the long run that will never save you anything! In fact, it usually ends up costing you more.
> 
> Remember, too, that dogs are not fish! You really can't equate screwing up training a dog with screwing up training a fish.
> Sheilah


Lol... with koi it's all about obtaining and maintaining water quality and nutrition.... you almost have to be a chemist to raise show quality koi... I built my pond myself. If I had screwed that up it would have cost me tens of thousands of dollars in dead fish and a rebuild. You would be blown away in knowing how precise you have to be with water parameters. For pond grade fish, not so much. For show quality fish it takes perfect water to bring out the colors and to allow for optimal growth and conformation. I test my water every other day to check all the levels. I also change out more than 50% of water a week to dilute dissolved organics and growth limiting pheremones... all the while I have to keep an eye out for parasites and bacterias that can be brought in from the local wild life.. when problems arise, I handle it myself. I have had to do some fairly advanced surgeries and treatments on very expensive fish.... yes, it is different,,, but what they have in common is the requirements of knowledge, the attention to detail and the willingness to put in the time to do it right. Trust me,,, I'm a competitive person by nature... I know what it takes to win. I just need the knowledge.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Tell you the truth...I was once in your shoes. My boy is my first dog, and when he was around 6 months old I was really interested in Schutzhund training. I saw that my closest club was an hour away, and that I just didn't have the time in my life right now to travel that much and commit a whole day of training to my dog. I have other commitments, other hobbies, other interests and Schutzhund isn't something you do once in a while, or skip 2 weeks out of 4 every month because "something came up."

I currently do AKC obedience, rally, agility, and am getting into tracking. I'm with a GSD club in my area which is about 20 minutes away. I go there about 3 times a week to train in the different venues. When I first started...I wanted an obedient pet. So I didn't correct for straight sits, I didn't much care about 100% focus, I wanted my pup to enjoy his life and to listen to me eventually. Well when I really got into trialing...I had to fix all the things I let him slide by on. I had to reteach him all the exercises that he just wasn't doing quite perfect enough.

So the reason I'm telling you this is that you really need people that know what they're doing to show you how to do thing right from the start. I was able to fix mistakes...but it took time, unnecessary time that could've been used training something else. So even a lady that has trained in obedience and tracking will probably set you back some because she doesn't know the intricacies of the sport and the scoring. If you really do want to title and excel in the sport, the best thing is to really work hard on joining a club...and if you don't think you can, don't feel obligated to do Schutzhund because your dog can do Schutzhund. My dog can do Schutzhund, but he's perfectly happy doing AKC stuff.

You won't get a leg up on anyone in the club by teaching obedience under someone that has never done Schutzhund. All the members of the club...start training their dogs for Schutzhund the moment their 8 week old puppy walks through their door. Your'e at a disadvantage because you don't know what to do...but the worst thing you can do is assume how easily skills will transfer from one venue to the next. You do need to get obedience on the dog...but you really need to do it with the end goal in mind.

If Schutzhund isn't a possibility now due to finances or time commitments, you might want to think about the other things you can do with your dog. Personally, I'd love to watch my boy get his Schutzhund 3 one day...but it won't happen. I'm at a time in my life when a 4 hour round of golf on Sunday in the summer and the football games in the winter are more gratifying to me than driving 2 hours round trip and training in Schutzhund. I'm not ready to make the commitment that is required yet, but one day I will be and it doesn't worry me that it might be on my 3rd, 4th, or 10th GSD.

I'm not trying to push you away from the sport either...but it seems like to me the current circumstances are stacked against you. One of my club members and the people I'll be getting my next dog from, train in Schutzhund and drive about 2 hours each way to train. They don't like the place that's an hour away. It's the commitment they've decided to make. But that's what Schutzhund is, it's not a do it once in a while hobby. It's not a, birthday party came up on Sunday afternoon so I'm not making it to practice. It's not a, I stayed out late drinking on Saturday so we're not training on Sunday. I'm sorry that the one club isn't accepting new memebers, Schutzhund is very much an "old boys club" (girls as well) and some clubs aren't as open to new members. Mostly due to the members not being able to make the time commitment Schutzhund takes, and the "just want to try it attitude."


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

I had two training sessions with my breeder,,, I wasn't, at all, impressed.... I went ahead and bit the bullet,,, signed up for 1:1 private lessons with a Schutzhund trainer,,, not cheap,, but it'll get me started on the right track!!
I paid for six weeks in advance ... hopefully by then I can get on with a club... ill be attending the regional championship in Houston in February as well... be able to meet a lot of the clubs there.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Start a journal! Hope this trainer is good and gets you going on the right track.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Start a journal! Hope this trainer is good and gets you going on the right track.


Good idea about the journal... I really hope this guy is good... he's young, but that's not an automatic bad thing, if he's good. He also works as a ring helper, fwiw.


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