# USA Sieger Show



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

So, who's going? Who's entered?

Nikon's in junior puppy males and possibly Markus' progeny group if we feel like going back.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Ok, I'm going to ask and expose my lack of knowledge -

When and where is it? 

Is this a show where uninformed folks like myself could come and understand what is going on? I'm sure being schooled in the Standard would be helpful.

Or would it be like sitting in an opera without a program? Very nice but clueless about what is going on. LOL

Just curious.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

April 24-26, Arlington Heights IL

http://www.usasiegershow.com/2009/Hotels.aspx


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

*Support <span style='font-size: 11pt'>V Boy von Zorra</span>, this dog has it all, the <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Real Deal</span>*


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I will cheer that dog, #41, got it. I'll always cheer a working line!

The person stacking him in that pic, his kennel team handles most of our dogs.

Doc, it's easy to follow but you will see GSDs gaiting across your eyelids when you sleep the nights following the show! Friday is the puppy day. Girls first, then boys. Saturday are the protection tests in the morning, then the youth classes. Sunday are the progeny and kennel groups, then the two working dog classes. The winners of these are the "Sieger" or "Siegerin" of the show.

I just saw that in Nikon's class there is a dog called Icon and there is only one dog between us. Should be fun, both of us calling our dogs!


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I think you would benefit more from going with someone that can walk you through it... however, sitting in the bleachers and listening to all the comments can help teach you things as well.

I was hoping Apache Do Amper would be entered. It would be neat to see a SL dog trained by a top working competitor in there.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

It's not far from me and I wasn't even aware of it.







I'll have to check with DH to see when he's free this weekend and, hopefully, we'll be there!


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

will I be able to notice a flying trot when I see it!? Maybe I should wait for the Show to come south. The language barrier (I speak southern US English and not understood outside of the south), coupled with my lack of Seiger knowledge may cause me too much frustration! rofl


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

There will be plenty of accents, lol. At NASS a good deal spoke German and other languages entirely. Someone spoke German to me by mistake, luckily I knew what he said.

I don't know about a "flying trot", is that the American show line term? I think in these Sieger show rings the dogs look different. They want to see a lot of drive from the rear, hence the dog's really pulling and being encouraged to pull (so long as the head is carried UP, hence the double handling. My puppy has trouble keeping his head up but a lot of puppies will gait "flat" until they are more experienced in the ring). In here are some examples of the gait you'd see: http://www.fardogartfoto.com/#/gsdclubofwalesfotos/4533336692

The next Sieger show will be NASS 2009 in LA.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I suppose LA is not in reference to Lower Alabama is it? LOL A flying trot must be a show ring term. During the trot, all four feet are actually off the ground at the same time. I'm not sure that is in vogue now. I don't like watching Am. Showlines. I'm sure I would rather watch a Seiger Show. Particularly if I had someone to explain it to me while it is going on.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If the dog is gaiting at the right pace, then yes, there's the "flying trot". Whether or not we'd notice it or like how it looks remains to be seen...

When we photographed NASS, that was the main goal. We got every dog, stacked and gaiting, but the goal was to get the dog in that position. Out of like 400 dogs I think I got one, lol, and it wasn't even during the show it was during a junior handling seminar.









My next closest attempt









So after day one I was assigned to "candid" shots around the rings and stacked photos. The others did gaiting.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Very nice photos. So are you shooting at the Seiger Show or Showing?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Showing. Someone else is shooting, don't know anything about her. My breeder is a photographer and does the WDA events (NASS and other shows) and covers the WUSV and BSZS for the WDA, but since this is a the United Schutzhund Clubs Sieger show we're not the photogs. We'll probably take our own stacked photos though.


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## doxsee (Jun 14, 2007)

I'm toying with the idea of going down to watch, but I haven't decided yet.


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## doxsee (Jun 14, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Deejays_Owner*Support <span style='font-size: 11pt'>V Boy von Zorra</span>, this dog has it all, the <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Real Deal</span>*



I love him


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## srfd44-2 (May 20, 2004)

I will be there in spirit ! Kai's breeder will be there. She is going to have one of her females there.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

*Chicago - USA Sieger Show*

Hope you don't mind, Liesje, that I changed the subject to include the location since we have so many local board members.

Right now DH and I are trying for Sunday, but still depends on what day his clients want to see houses. But DH is very excited about going and I can't wait. We're 45 minutes away.

Will you be there on Sunday? Would love to meet you both and Nikon!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

*Re: Chicago - USA Sieger Show*

Wishing #41, Alta-Tollhaus Schumi, Kayla and Nikon Good Luck, head up! And I hope Caisson does well, too! Obviously no one will be at the club this Friday...


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## grmnshpd21 (May 5, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: agilegsdsIt's not far from me and I wasn't even aware of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't know this was going to be in the area too! Oh boy, I have to try and make it out there too!!


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

I'll be there as our SchH club has volunteered to help with the protection.

My club's TD and his wife Jennifer own boy. Jen handles him. Will also be there to support them as well.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Jen and Bill are great. Bill has given us some great and very positive feedback on Eriel as well as Jen sending pictures from the show the other week.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I was planning to go (to watch) but I have some deadlines I have to meet for Monday, so I will probably just stop by for a short while on Sunday.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

We plan to go tomorrow. I hope the weather improves. It was supposed to be beautiful today, but the forecast changed at the last minute and it's been storming all day.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

We were there all day yesterday and this morning for all the dogs' protection test and about 1/4 of the bitches. We left the second time it started pouring b/c I had my in-laws with me and were planning to leave at lunch time anyway. I don't think we're going back tomorrow even though Nikon's supposed to be in a progeny group.


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## grmnshpd21 (May 5, 2005)

We were there today until the skies opened up and it just down poured on us. So much for the weather today







I enjoyed watching what we were able to watch.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm hoping the weather improves for tomorrow! It's too bad I couldn't go yesterday, the weather was perfect.


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## GSDextrodinaire (Dec 15, 2002)

Anyone who was there care to comment on the performance tests?


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## Superpup (Jun 7, 2007)

UGH.. the weather sucked. Nicky and I and my hubby went there this mornign and like Nicky said until the skyes opened up.. we left.. I went there later on... STILL raining... what a nasty day it was weatherwise..


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## Superpup (Jun 7, 2007)

Dee... not good!








I did not see Boy, but I have seen him and heard he was GREAT! Would not expect anything different either. What a nice dog with great temperament.


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## luvsables (May 7, 2007)

Being on the field the whole time for males and females here is my opinion.

Of all the males shown in the performance test here are my best picks in no piticular order.

Boy von Zorra

Ork vd werther-Muhle

BeDarthvader v Theishof

Yash vd Bastillie

Quizno v Wilendorf

Yasso v Mittelwest

The rest, well will leave that one alone.

I did not keep track of the names in the female class but IMO there were only a few that did ok and the rest were not good at all. They came fast on the long bites but bit and hung on with a tooth or two. Not a good day for the females at all.


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## GSDextrodinaire (Dec 15, 2002)

Too bad! I had really hoped that with the projected changes we were told would occur in the judging that there would be an increase in work and grip behavior. 

I wonder if anyone video taped the performances?


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## luvsables (May 7, 2007)

Changes mean nothing, if the dogs do not have the temperment or the right training it will go as it did today, with or with out changes. A majority of the handlers did follow the new rules but some did not and were still able to go on and get pronounced. 

I was just amazed at all the clapping and cheering for dogs that barely bit, hung on with a tooth or 2 and trotted to the helper. Am I missing something here or what? IMO, NOT.


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## GSDextrodinaire (Dec 15, 2002)

Truly disappointing yet again.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: GSDextrodinaireAnyone who was there care to comment on the performance tests?


Bleh. Not good. Boy was good, a few other males good/OK. The rest were "meh" to embarrassing. Typical, sadly.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: luvsables
> I was just amazed at all the clapping and cheering for dogs that barely bit, hung on with a tooth or 2 and trotted to the helper. Am I missing something here or what? IMO, NOT.


My MIL was along, she knows nothing about dogs/SchH/GSDs and thought the cheering = good. I told her it didn't matter, just means there's a crowd of people who have bred to that dog or have progeny from that dog.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

This was the first Sieger Show that I have been to so I have nothing else to compare it to other than the video's that I have seen online from last year and honestly there were dogs that should have been rated "I", IMO, that were not, especially a dog that ran past the helper off the field and the owner had 2 more chances to restart. Saw plenty of dogs hanging on by a tooth and then when they outed they would take a step back nervously waiting for the handler. To me that shows fear but these dogs of course were rated pronounced or sufficient. 

So these fearful dogs will be bred which is such a shame.









Ok off my soapbox now....


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## grmnshpd21 (May 5, 2005)

This was my first Sieger Show as well and I'm not all that familiar with SchH as I don't do it with Molly but there were several females that came off the sleeve with the stick hits. I was surprised to see that happen on more than one occassion. I got there too late to see any of the males in the performance test and it poured partially thru the females and then we left. I wasn't too impressed with what I saw while I was there.


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## srfd44-2 (May 20, 2004)

Just heard that Obi Wan vom Theishof was hurt during practice on Friday night and that is why he did not go all out like he usually does. Heidi said he was "happy" on Saturday and that is why she did not pull him. Get better, Obi !


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## GSDextrodinaire (Dec 15, 2002)

For your first time, you witnessed what is typical at a sieger show performance test and what is ACCEPTED and applauded. 

I am told we cannot expect the situation to change over night. That it will take time for USA to make baby steps so that the rules can be followed. I wonder what would happen if I decide not to follow the USA rules in a SchH trial, because I need to make baby steps to come into compliance? 

IMO, this accepted way of interpreting the rules is one of the reasons why high lines continue to decline in working ability. Why strive to produce the best well balanced dog, when the organization continues to promote mediocre at best?

Hopefully, lights will go on and bells will sound, and breeders will see what some of us have known all along...START looking to the SchH trial field for breeding studs, START looking at the females on SchH trial fields. 

You cannot get an accurate assessment of a dog's working ability or lack there of at a SS performance test, but you can see a lot of what you probably do NOT want in your breeding program. 

It really is too bad.


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## GSDextrodinaire (Dec 15, 2002)

I am sorry to hear about Obi. He is one of my favorite dogs! A high line that CAN work. He has always given his all to Heidi, and would continue to do so without being asked to. I think I have told Heidi a few times, that Obi can come live with me. Strangely she always says no.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: srfd44-2Just heard that Obi Wan vom Theishof was hurt during practice on Friday night and that is why he did not go all out like he usually does. Heidi said he was "happy" on Saturday and that is why she did not pull him. Get better, Obi !


Heidi DID have nice dogs!! Hers were a few of the ones that actually did look good. We even commented to her that her dogs stood out. She seemed very nice.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: srfd44-2Just heard that Obi Wan vom Theishof was hurt during practice on Friday night and that is why he did not go all out like he usually does. Heidi said he was "happy" on Saturday and that is why she did not pull him. Get better, Obi !


I was so looking forward to seeing him and he did do better than many, many of the others I think even with the injury. My trainer, who is very competitive in SchH (not into show) said that all of Heidi's dogs were impressive to him, even on an "off" day he could tell that they have the right training and foundation. She handled Nikon in the show so he was asking me who she trains with but I don't know.


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## luvsables (May 7, 2007)

All the dogs Heidi had at the show did very well. I liked the temperment on the dogs and the males were absoluely med. size dogs and the training looked to be done the right way. She herself seems like a very nice person. 

I was on the field during the practice Fri and saw Obi work but did see how he was hurt. Heidi did not say anything about the dog being hurt but I also was not close enough to hear if she said anything. The dog walked off the field fine in my eyes. The dog must have showed signs later. I also wish him a speedy recovery.


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## luvsables (May 7, 2007)

She handled Nikon in the show so he was asking me who she trains with but I don't know. (quote)

How did Nikon do in the ring?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: GSDextrodinaireFor your first time, you witnessed what is typical at a sieger show performance test and what is ACCEPTED and applauded.
> 
> I am told we cannot expect the situation to change over night. That it will take time for USA to make baby steps so that the rules can be followed. I wonder what would happen if I decide not to follow the USA rules in a SchH trial, because I need to make baby steps to come into compliance?
> 
> ...


I wish there would be an actual TRIAL to qualify, or at least be eligible for VA ratings. Yes I know the show would take a week but now SchH3 and VA ratings don't mean much anymore. Even in the puppy show rings there's so much politics going on.....

For me this was simply a socialization opportunity for both myself and my dogs which is kind of sad considering it's supposed to be THE show of the year in this country.

I don't get the baby steps thing. Either you have it or you don't. You trained your dog or you didn't. End of story. Maybe a few dogs do just have an off day, then come back next year and blow us out of the water.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: luvsablesShe handled Nikon in the show so he was asking me who she trains with but I don't know. (quote)
> 
> How did Nikon do in the ring?


He placed third from last (VP14 of 16) but all the boys got VPs. My goals with him were to get a VP, have a positive experience, and get his nose off the ground and not have him clawing at the ground. This was his first show and we did two quick attempts at ring training in the last month or so (with other owners posing as handlers, not our real handlers). Both times he was over excited, clawing at the ground to get to me. I thought he did 110% better during the show. Heidi was exactly what I needed, she told me exactly what to do. She said he looked fine and did really well for his first show. No clawing at the ground and his head came up. He still gaits very flat compared to many of the others and Heidi said since neither she or him are from one of the "big" kennels there's some politics involved, but I was happy. Many of the dogs in his class have already shown many times and do gait much better in the ring. I did not buy this dog primarily for show so I couldn't care less at this point. Would I hire her again? Most definitely.


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## luvsables (May 7, 2007)

Congrats on the VP. Yes, ALOT of politics in these type of shows.


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## GSDextrodinaire (Dec 15, 2002)

Heidi is the genuine thing! She handled my female for me at the 2007 USA SS in the working class, and did an excellent job with a dog who had absolutely no ring training. Due to Heidi's excellent skill and my dog's good obedience, Heidi was able to do the off leash heeling for me, so all I had to do was hide off field. Bless her!

Heidi truly understands the importance of training and trialing your own dogs so that you know what you are breeding. Her dogs have strong foundation work, and she doesn't push them through training/trials just to breed.

It is very possible that Obi reawakened the injury he sustained while training last August (i think it was). If that is the case, then his continuing through the weekend is a testement to his constitution.

On another note, I wish I could have been there to see Ravi's son handling Juneau for the test. I hear his son did an outstanding job! how nice to see a young handler (age 11, I think) already learning the importance of good work!


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## srfd44-2 (May 20, 2004)

Heidi said Obi would not jump into the truck Friday night so she knew there was something wrong. He "loves" his truck !

Hope everyone had a positive experience at the Sieger. It is something to see and a joy to experience. Can't wait til it is closer to me so I can go again and be able to spend more time.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I couldn't stay long but I did get to see some of the show today. I was really surprised at how dark the tan was on most of the dogs!


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

We're back too and, man, was it a mudfest! Saw the working males, didn't dare venture out earlier in the day to see the females in the monsoon. I took a ton of pics and am working on them now. Will put them up in the picture forum later. But here's the 2009 Sieger - VA1 Liedo von Kuckucksland (I hope I got that right)


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

We didn't go today







We weren't planning to but I wanted to anyway. DH got sick.


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Sounds like the same old, same old, nothing has changed.
What's up with 11 VA males


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

How do we get the critiques?


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## srfd44-2 (May 20, 2004)

Heidi Theis does not train with anyone. What you see in her dogs is the training she puts in her dogs by herself. Dee, Heidi said once her internet is back up she is sending you a "little gift". She wants to thank you for the wonderful comments that you said about her. I told her they were not "comments"..... they were truths.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Just saw this on the news about bed bugs at the host hotel -









http://abclocal.go.com/wls/video?id=6795797


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