# Breeders & DM DNA Test



## Momo (Feb 4, 2016)

Highly regarded and praised breeder (actively involved in IPO) does not DM test their breeding stock as they do not believe its 100% accurate at this moment. Hard to verify whether their breedings have incidence of DM and appears that only through necropsy can a trained professional can make that determination. Spoken to some current owners who say their older dogs are fine and they're comfortable with the breeder. Other than not testing for DM, everything else looks good. Thoughts?


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Mind PMing me the breeder? My post count is not at 15 yet so I cant PM you first. I would like to check out the page for myself.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

There's an old saying - if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck - good chance it IS a duck!!!

The issue some have with it is that many dogs in IPO type sports get damaged working - and perhaps a small percentage of those do show symptoms similar to DM....and do not have DM....I had a Sch3 male who I allowed a newbie to give some bites to....the dog got injured - I watched it happen, he ended up with some neurological symptoms and impairment....if he had been younger at that time, I am sure the signs would have progressed so I can understand the skepticism of some people about whether their dogs have DM. The same dog had gotten injured in some way that we could never pinpoint (x-rays, nuclear scans did not show ANYTHING) young and had another reaction symptom sporadically as well.....I never saw any of the symptoms of DM in him and he could get up and down and walk on all 4 legs when he was plus 12.

I test my dogs....so far, all my females are DM negative....every test has to start collecting data somewhere. In a second generation from testing, I must have bred to a carrier (K), as one pup out of 4 tested is a carrier,the rest negative, the J's tested were negatives as well, but their dam and granddam were not breeding when testing became available....and now need to get my third generations tested, two litters (L and M) were from a DM carrier, the other litters ( N) the sire was also negative....

Is this a 110% surefire guarantee????? No - but IMO it is a step towards being able to greatly diminish the risk of DM - of course, there are backyard breeders and puppy mill/commercial breeders who will not test - but anyone who is concerned enough to research what issues are prevalent in the GSD will take this into account when picking a breeder and a litter.


Lee


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

The DM test is only $65, which is a drop in the bucket when it comes to expenses for a breeding dog. The test may not be 100% accurate, but it's definitely something I would use as a guide when making breeding decisions.


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## Momo (Feb 4, 2016)

Agreed that more data points are needed and it is indeed a start if more breeders submit dna samples. From what I've read, DM in gsd is likely different from DM in corgis and likely may be more than one defective gene that's currently been tested for. Some people (research and breeders) believe that you may be reducing good gene pool by using the test especially since it's jot 100 percent right now. Limited funding for such research but I can see how some breeders would like to avoid issues relating to DM as it's only determined with necrospy though clinically ruling out everything else, vets make a diagnosis when the dogs are alive and also affects older dogs. If an older dog is diagnosed with DM what should a breeder be responsible for?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Having watched the best dog in the world, IMO:smile2:, go down to DM, I cannot imagine why any breeder worth a **** would not spend the pennies to test for it.
As Lee noted, it's a start and we need to start somewhere. The reality is that even positive dogs may never develop symptoms, because it's a late onset disease. I know two dogs that tested positive, one lost to cancer and one to heart problems before symptoms ever showed.
Should the breeder be held responsible? Well it depends on your outlook I guess. To my mind probably not. DM is fatal. So asking a breeder to pay for treatment seems unfair. It's late onset, often dogs don't show symptoms until after the age of 10 or so. As another member pointed out a while back, anything over 10 these days is a bonus. Cold sounding yes, but a sad reality. 
Personally? I wouldn't even debate a breeder who didn't test for it. But unless there is proof that a breeder knowingly and with malice bred dogs to be positive, I can't see them being responsible. I would expect that if I contacted a breeder and told them they were producing positive pups that steps would be taken to prevent future cases.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

DM testing is relatively new. But as serious as the disease is, I feel that we need to utilize everything that we have available, even if it is not 100% accurate at this time, it is still the best option we have at this point. The test will continue to be improved upon, and having seen a dog with DM, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. At this point, all my current females have tested N/N. I did 2 breedings to a male that after the repeat breeding was tested and informed that he was A/A. All puppies in the litters should be A/N - Carriers. Only two at this point might be bred, that is now a decision left to the owners, as they has titled and health tested their pups. It is definitely something they will take into consideration if they decide to do a breeding. Again, it may not be 100% accurate at this point, but it is the best tool that we have at this point. I wouldn't choose a pup from a breeding where the parents were not tested. To me, it is not worth the risk.


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