# Raw pork... ok or not?



## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Bash had some diarrhea and was throwing up, so we took him to the vet today, just to rule out anything serious. I suspected this was a reaction to us trying Nupro with him (which we've since stopped), but since he's had a few parasites already, I just wanted to rule that out. While we were at the vet, the topic turned to his raw diet, and once I mentioned that Bash eats raw pork, the vet became concerned. I told him that the pork has been frozen for well over a month. He told me freezing does nothing to kill off parasites, and that raw pork should NEVER be fed. This vet does not feed raw, and while he is alright with us feeding raw, he's not a huge supporter of raw feeding in general. Have I been mislead about feeding pork raw? Is this vet correct? I obviously don't want to do anything that could harm my dog. So who out there feeds pork raw? Have you ever had any problems?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I have friends who feed their GSDs raw pork with no problems. Hans can't tolerate it-- too rich for him.

Since it is Saturday and more replies may be slow in coming, here is an old thread discussing it
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/b-r-f-raw-feeding/91310-raw-pork-ok.html


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I don't do raw myself but I am curious on the "Pork" thing myself???


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Thanks for the link, Sunflowers. Bash has lots of intolerances, but pork is not one of them. He has done really well on it, so my heart sank a little when the vet said to never feed it raw again.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I feed raw pork with no issues or concerns. People fear the parasite trichinellosis when eating or feeding pork. This risk is almost zero when feeding farmed animals, more risk if wild or game animals.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Thanks, Saphire. I guess I need to stop being concerned when our vet looks horrified about the feeding decisions I'm making regarding my dog. He feeds kibble to his own dogs, so I shouldn't be surprised when he makes statements about raw feeding that are maybe less than accurate. I did get a whole speech today about biblical times and why Jewish people can't eat pork, so there's that. I just didn't want to completely discount a concern without doing further research and asking those who are more experienced with raw feeding than I am.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I feed it without issue, but i cut the fat off certain cuts. Now I have ground pork with bone(I think it's Mistys favorite)They have no issues with pork liver or pork kidney. My oldest has thrown up a couple times, but I think it was because she ate fast and to much at one time. I go easy on beef hearts because they are on the rich side too.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

GypsyGhost said:


> Thanks, Saphire. I guess I need to stop being concerned when our vet looks horrified about the feeding decisions I'm making regarding my dog. He feeds kibble to his own dogs, so I shouldn't be surprised when he makes statements about raw feeding that are maybe less than accurate. I did get a whole speech today about biblical times and why Jewish people can't eat pork, so there's that. I just didn't want to completely discount a concern without doing further research and asking those who are more experienced with raw feeding than I am.


Does the vet eat ribs, hot dogs or bacon?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

same here , raw pork hearts are a favourite, as are pork tongues , and lean ground pork which is often a sale item when bought in 3 pounds or more . No problems. 
Occasionally they will keep pork necks (when I see some really meaty ones) , pork hocks - pork feet , pork skin (with fat removed) , pork snouts and an ear here or there.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Thanks everyone... Bash has been on raw pork with no issues for about three weeks now. I didn't want to have to take away something that he was doing so well with!


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

llombardo said:


> Does the vet eat ribs, hot dogs or bacon?


I believe he does. He told me to keep feeding pork, but to cook it first. He's only against raw pork, it seems.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

GypsyGhost said:


> I believe he does. He told me to keep feeding pork, but to cook it first. He's only against raw pork, it seems.


Well then the good vet should know that Jewish people don't eat pork cooked or raw I would have told him that my dog isn't Jewish


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I like this vet, even though we don't always see eye to eye on things... he does tend to go off on hilarious tangents at every visit, though.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

Commercial pork in the US and Canada is fine to feed. I regularly use pork cushion meat, pork hearts, pork ribs and riblets, pork necks, and organs. It's a favorite around here.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I feed pork. Mostly hearts and pork shoulder. I do not feed organs. A local butcher told me that often the organs are infected with worms. So that he can plainly see them. I have feed organs bought from a commercial place prior to learning that and they were fine but they are also USDA inspected.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Jax08 said:


> I feed pork. Mostly hearts and pork shoulder. I do not feed organs. A local butcher told me that often the organs are infected with worms. So that he can plainly see them. I have feed organs bought from a commercial place prior to learning that and they were fine but they are also USDA inspected.


Good point. I buy my meat from a regular butcher so it's all human grade and inspected.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I have fed pork often, it's great for hard keepers! Wild boar is what you need to worry about and it must be kept frozen for several weeks/months(can't remember) to kill off parasites before you feed. Commercial pork is perfectly fine though like Sunflowers said it can be too rich for some dogs and cause cannon butt.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Thanks for all the input everyone. Thank you also for easing my mind on this! All of the pork we buy is regular meat for human consumption. I haven't given any pork organ meat, as I cannot find it near me. Plus, Roxy can't eat pork, so it's just easier to buy organ meat that they can both eat (beef, bison, goat).


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Ohhh parasites my microscopic love! :wub: 

Warning: way too much info about creepy crawlies ahead. 

There are three main parasitic concerns when it comes to raw pork. Trichenella spiralis, Taenia solium and Toxoplasma gondii. Both dogs and humans can contract these strains. There's also a handful of viruses and atleast a dozen types of bacteria as well but that's a whole 'nother story.

There is a reason that pork has been unacceptable to consume in some religious sects - it's a public health issue. Because swine are omnivores they will readily consume animal protein and are more likely to become infected with cross-species disease. 

Trichenella has all but been eliminated in the US in _confined_ herds. Pasture and free ranged pigs are the ones that are most likely to be infected with trich. In the US a few cases of trichenosis are traced back to pork each year, but it is rare. Like 20 cases with most of those being wild game.

T solium is the species of tapeworm that can cause neurocysticercosis. This is the one i fear most, I can come to terms with having worms in my bowels but in my brain - blech! Consumption of raw pork itself will not cause cysticercosis, it will manifest as taeniasis. However feces from an individual with taeniasis can cause cysticercosis. If you have small children in the house who might pet a dog around his tail area and then might put their fingers in their mouths, or if your dog is a poop eater. I would be leary of feeding raw pork. T solium is uncommon. Somewhere around 1000 new cases of cysticercosis diagnosed each year in the US and exponentially more taeniasis cases. 

T gondii is the most common parasite in pork. Undercooked pork is a common way humans contract toxoplasmosis. In my parasitology lab we actually did detect the parasite in some samples obtained from local grocers. Something like 25% of all breeding sows are infected? *sigh* I'm too lazy to go find the study but the number is up there. Nothing to worry about though as you and your dog already have a good chance of having it.  The CDC estimates that there are about 60 million active human infections in the US the vast majority being asymptomatic. On a side note t gondii has been known to cause behavioral changes in infected individuals, just something to keep in mind in case there are ever seemingly random behavioral changes in your raw fed dog as it may be worth it to have your vet check for toxoplasmosis.

When it comes to post slaughter inspection. Trichenella,and Toxoplasma can not be seen by the naked eye. Tricenella most often infects muscles - samples are taken from the diaphragm, tongue and neck, and looked at under a scope. Tapeworm cysts can be visually seen but are often missed - up to 25% of the time, they often infect muscle. Other parasites such as Ascaris suum (porcine roundworm) go for organs and are very visually obvious so they pose little threat when talking about food bourne infections. There is always a risk for parasitic infection when feeding raw meat. Pork and fish are the more likely vectors due to their diet and habitat. 

You vet was incorrect in saying that freezing does _nothing_. Freezing has been shown to kill off parasites. It's all about temperature and duration. A constant temperature of -10 degrees C at a duration of 10 days will kill off all of the above. The trick is to keep the temperature constant. Opening and closing the freezer will effect the kill rate. 

All that said, I do feed raw pork every now and then. My guys eat mostly lamb and beef though. I keep my meat on ice for a minimum of 2 weeks, I deworm regularly, do blood work at each vet visit, and i visually inspect each piece of meat I feed. I also have been known to take samples and check them under a scope - but that's more of a hobby then my being overtly cautious. 

Long story short, yes there is a slightly increased risk from pork as opposed to other raw meat, but for me the benefits of raw out weigh the increased risks. If raw pork is what my dog did best on I would feed it.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Something I wanted to add - if parasites are a concern you may also want to stay away from ground meats.

Also, I have yet to find any wormy red meat bought from the store, However I have found tapeworm cysts in the abdominal cavities of grocery store bought whole fish many times.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Voodoolamb- Thanks for all of the great info! All of Bash's pork has been frozen for at least a month before he eats it, and I keep the dog freezer at -10 to -20 celcius all the time. I have two freezer thermometers in there and I check the temp whenever the freezer is opened (because I'm paranoid like that). I talked it over with my husband and he agrees that we should just keep feeding the pork raw, since it seems we are taking all of the proper safety precautions and Bash is doing so well with it. I really didn't think the pork had anything to do with his recent GI problems, but the vet kind of scared me! We'll see what happens when I add it back in to his diet (we're keeping him on just raw chicken for a few days until whatever was going on with him is fully resolved).


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

on one of the cookery shows a famous chef doing a pork dish did say that too often pork is over cooked and a slight pink is just fine for us .

A bit of pink in pork is OK after all - Health | NBC News

Trichinosis, a parasitic disease caused by eating raw or undercooked meat infected with roundworm larvae, was once common but is no longer a problem in commercially grown pork and hasn't been for years, says Ceci Snyder, with the National Pork Board in Des Moines. "Those myths die hard," she says.

Read this , everything and more than you ever wanted to know about pork, raw pork, trichinosis - by Dr Billinghurst
http://www.barfaustralia.com/Portals/24/Docs/Raw_Pork_Trichinosis_and_Dr_Bs_BARF.pdf


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

carmspack said:


> on one of the cookery shows a famous chef doing a pork dish did say that too often pork is over cooked and a slight pink is just fine for us .
> 
> A bit of pink in pork is OK after all - Health | NBC News
> 
> ...


Thanks, Carmen!


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## brandydan (May 7, 2015)

I feed my horde (both dogs and cats) pork and they love it. But I just feed the muscle, since I can't find hearts or other organs and my husband would have a meltdown if he saw a head in the freezer. 

I will, however, remove the outer layer of fat and skin since IMHO they're too rich (plus, I love pork rinds for yours truly; gross, but so, so good).

I wish I could discuss raw diets with my vet, she would crucify me.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so don't discuss -- just do -- the vet can feed their dog whatever they want .


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## ODINsFREKI (Jul 30, 2013)

Quality pork in moderation. It's super rich. Injected and sick pork from an industrial producer is not good for man or dog. You are what you eat and don't need GMO fed pork, chemical medications and antemortem chemicals used before the slaughter. 

Your VET may be a good vet but they probably eat at McDonalds.  

Sorry for being so rude!


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

brandydan said:


> I feed my horde (both dogs and cats) pork and they love it. But I just feed the muscle, since I can't find hearts or other organs and my husband would have a meltdown if he saw a head in the freezer.
> 
> I will, however, remove the outer layer of fat and skin since IMHO they're too rich (plus, I love pork rinds for yours truly; gross, but so, so good).
> 
> I wish I could discuss raw diets with my vet, she would crucify me.


We really only feed muscle meat, too. And only to Bash, because Roxy did horribly on it. 

Our regular vet has really come a long way in the past year or so on being ok with raw food. He doesn't feed it, but he doesn't give us a hard time about it. When we first switched to raw, he was only concerned that we were making sure to give proper ratios and that we had a support system in place with people who knew what they were doing. He was really not on board with raw pork, though. We will probably never mention feeding raw pork again.

Now, some of the other vets at the office are not so open about raw feeding. So we don't see them. We alternate between the one we saw Saturday and another awesome vet who trusts that we are not idiots.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

ODINsFREKI said:


> Quality pork in moderation. It's super rich. Injected and sick pork from an industrial producer is not good for man or dog. You are what you eat and don't need GMO fed pork, chemical medications and antemortem chemicals used before the slaughter.
> 
> Your VET may be a good vet but they probably eat at McDonalds.
> 
> Sorry for being so rude!


No worries, I didn't think your comment was rude. 

We buy the best quality meat we can afford for our dogs. I would love it if every single thing we gave them was organic, but we can't do that just yet! We do hit up the local farms for most of our meat, so I do feel pretty good about the quality they're getting.


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## brandydan (May 7, 2015)

carmspack said:


> so don't discuss -- just do -- the vet can feed their dog whatever they want .


I do just that. Other than the slight overthetop meltodown one of the vet techs had when I mentioned that I was 'thinking' about switching to raw for my cat with IBD (poocat), and the stern lecture about better food through bags and cans, we don't discuss food.

Although, when I brought my puppy in for his third round of shots (we live in an area where Parvo is practically endemic, heartworm and parasites are typical, I'd rather just get the shots for my guys), she was amazed at the 28 pounder asleep on her exam table. Didn't want to break the kumbaya moment by thanking all those chickens he had chomped through to get to that size.

Thing is, and for now to me it's just anecdotal (sp), but the last thing I need to is bring in any of my pets with potential serious issues and have them blanket-claim raw diet over any disease.

And I finally found pig hearts at the market...


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## Mandarigma (Oct 3, 2015)

I feed raw pork on occasion and haven't had any issues (knock on wood).


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