# Ground Turkey/Extra Lean Ground Beef



## FSUnoles

Hey all, just had a few ?'s...

Right now zeus my 1.5 yr old GSD eats 3 cups of nutro ultra in the am and same at night. Hes about 95-100 lbs and in great shape, runs at least 3-5 miles with me everyday. However I was thinking about adding some raw ground turkey or some extra lean ground beef in with his nutro ultra. 

Would it be better if i just pan fried it up first and drained all the fat completely, or add it in completely raw? Im always weerie of raw food bc of the hords of bacteria they carry. Also, which would be more beneficial/healthier, the turkey or extra lean ground beef?

Thanks in advance!


-Keith


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## Chris Wild

Feed it raw. For humans, cooking is important. Dogs however were designed to eat raw meat (and really nothing but raw meat!). Their digestive systems can handle the bacteria just fine, and it's healthier for them (and easier for them to digest) if fed raw.

Neither beef or turkey is really more/less healthy than the other for a dog. Especially since it's just a treat. So whichever you prefer. If it were me, I'd buy them the cheap fatty stuff, rather than more expensive lean ground meat, unless the dog has a problem being overweight. The fat and extra calories is fine for them.


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## natalie559

Feeding it raw is the way to go unless your dog has immune or digestive issues that raw might not be good for.

Ounce for ounce beef has more of most nutrients than turkey. But it is more expensive. Since you are already feeding a balanced kibble I wouldn't be as concerned with the nutrient levels in the ground meats. 

To give the dog variety I would use both in the diet.


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## 3K9Mom

What's the protein in the kibble? Since Nutro Ultra Kibble is chicken and lamb, you can go either way (and I like Natalie's idea of doing both for variety). 

If you ever switch to feeding a turkey-based kibble, feed the beef. If you're feeding beef-based kibble, feed the turkey. 

But since you're starting out, start with one first. Make sure that your dog tolerates it well (no sensitivity or allergies). Then introduce the other. Since he's never eaten raw meat before, I'd allow a couple weeks in between.


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## FSUnoles

Thanks for all the info guys, about how much turkey/beef would you guys recommend adding per meal? Hes on 3 cups per meal, fed twice a day.


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## 3K9Mom

That's up to you. Just be sure to decrease his kibble appropriately. Unfortunately, Nutro's website does not give us the caloric content of the kibble, so we can't say, decrease the food by this and increase the meat by that much to keep the caloric intake the same. 

The Nutro website won't let me copy the guaranteed analysis, but here it is: http://www.ultraholistic.com/adult.shtml

Here's nutrition facts for raw ground turkey:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/poultry-products/931/2

Lean ground beef (since that's what you inquired about. I picked 90%, you can change the percentage from 70% to 95%)
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beef-products/6193/2

USDA commodity "course" ground beef
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beef-products/6139/2

If you poke around Nutritiondata's website, you'll see you can find out about almost any kind of food. It's really handy. 

If your dog is super active, then you'll be more worried about ensuring that protein and fat intake remains constant. For a less active dog, you'll want to ensure that caloric intake doesn't increase. It all depends on your dog. You can email Nutro to get more specific info on the kibble. You should also eyeball your dog once he starts eating the meat. Gaining weight? Cut back. Seems sluggish? Increase the protein and/or fat. 

We can't tell you what's best for your dog. It just kind of depends. If you just want to add a little bit as a topper, then do that and take away a little bit of kibble. But if you're actually talking about supplementing the kibble with considerable amounts of meat, then it's helpful to learn more about your kibble and the meat you'll be serving. The websites I linked you to will give you much of the info you'll need to get launched. And loiter here. And be sure to ask questions!

Your pup will be thrilled!


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## canucme278

You really should not feed raw and kibble in the same meal. Kibble hangs out in their gut far longer then raw meat. I feed raw but one of my dogs being shown by a handler eats kibble as well as raw. When he is home I still have to continue the kibble until he is done showing for the season since when you switch foods they blow coat. So this is what I do.....early morn he gets 3 cups kibble, mid day to early eve he gets raw, then LATE eve(10pm or so) he gets 3 cups kibble. Its alot to eat but this boy is EXTREAMLY atheletic and hard to keep weight on because he is constantly on the move. Now when he is gone with the handler he eats only kibble.


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## 3K9Mom

This is an old wives' tale. There is no reason that a healthy dog can't eat a mixture of kibble and raw food. 

I feed my pup that mixture every day, and a number of other members here do too, with absolutely no ill effects.


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## canucme278

Can I mix raw meat with kibble 
No, you shouldn't mix kibble with the raw meat mixture, as they digest at different rates. Raw food is much more digestible, taking only 3-4 hours, while the kibble usually takes 9-12 hours. Kibble is a cooked, processed product that is harder for the dog to digest because the molecules are bound tighter together. When raw meat and kibble are mixed together the meat will digest, meanwhile leaving some of the kibble to rise to body temperature and ferment. The bacteria level in the dog's digestive system will then rise and could eventually cause unwanted problems. If your dog is new to MY MASTER'S CHOICE and won't eat the raw meat, mixing in a portion of cooked meat, should be fine for the first week. 

The above came from this site http://www.knowbetterdogfood.com/faq/?action=faq&fid=2

The same exact thing is listed here
http://www.jakeanddaiseys.com/faq.shtml#mixkibble

Also, don't mix raw meat with kibble at the same meal so the raw meat will move quickly through the digestive tract, as nature intended. For videos on how to easily prepare a raw food diet for dogs or cats, click here. 

The above was listed here
http://www.optimumchoices.com/pet_food.htm


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## canucme278

you could also ask on the raw lists but they would hang you by your toenails for mentioning the word kibble


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## The Stig

I have fed raw with kibble at the same time. It is pure myth. No issue with digestion. 

If you think about it, the Japanese have eaten Sushi for centuries. It's raw fish with cooked grains. And to follow that line of thinking, it would be worse since humans have a far longer digestive tract than dogs. 

I think it's just the super pro-Barfers using a scare tactic. Just me and my opinions. 

I mean, I am sure they haven't done extensive, scientific research with at least 2 samples, one being the control group and the other with the variable. 

There are those who have mixed both for years, and never had a problem.


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## 3K9Mom

canucme278, I appreciate your concern. But the first two of your links are people who sell commercial raw food. They don't really have any incentive to tell dog owners that feeding raw and kibble together is perfectly safe, do they? Doing so would undercut sales. 


And the third company, which sells "Natural, Healthy, Holistic Pet Food" sells among its products Nature's Variety foods. Well, NV itself says:



> Quote:
> We believe customers need not be concerned about mixing raw and kibble at the same meal. Raw is like canned food in terms of moisture content and rates of digestion; people routinely combine canned and kibble diets with no digestive upset or stomach emptying issues. There is no scientific evidence that combining kibble and raw food causes the raw foods to be digested at a slower rate. (Remember, when you feed any new food to your pet for the first time, it is best to transition slowly. Mix increasing amounts of your pet’s new food with decreasing amounts of the previous food over a 7 to 14 day period.)


http://www.naturesvariety.com/raw_QandA

It's a myth. There is no reason that quality raw and quality kibble cannot be fed together.


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## Barb E

I too have fed kibble/raw together with no issues.


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## The Stig

I was just told on another forum that I am causing my puppy to be sick by mixing.


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## BlackGSD

> Originally Posted By: The StigI was just told on another forum that I am causing my puppy to be sick by mixing.


Was the person that told you that a "raw" feeder?


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## The Stig

Yeah. But the owner recently switched her dog back to kibble for health reasons. I should ask what her transition was. 

This is just a very solidified myth. Unfortunately.


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## 3K9Mom

I was at my vet's office yesterday. I -- AUGH! -- thought my pup might have swallowed a photo battery (turns out, nope...we found the battery 3 xrays, 1 induced vomiting, about $400, and several hours later). 

But anyhow....

The vet and I were chatting because the xrays of Meri's stomach content showed bony bits, which I could identify, of course. And when Meri vomited, up came kibble, raw meat and raw bone. I asked my vet if she had any concern about Meri eating kibble, raw meat and bone together. She said, "no, why?" 

(She did crack a joke about having a concern about puppies eating batteries, though.







) 

I told her about this "digests at different rates" business. She gave me one of these







looks. And we chatted about how French fries and buns digest at different rates than burgers, and those digest at different rates from the lettuce and tomatoes on the burger, but that doesn't really stop us from eating them together, or even more so, buying Happy Meals for our kids, does it? 

So even if there's any evidence that stuff digests at different rate, which didn't really seem to be the case yesterday -- the bone was soft as it came back up, and the meat and kibble were broken down and goopy -- there is no evidence that it would cause physiological harm even if they did go through the intestines at different times. 

So, that's my vet's view of this matter. 

(And, bit of unrelated advice: make sure that if your camera bag is anywhere near puppy level, that it's not only clasped but zipped if you have a curious puppy who can run into the house while you're outside playing with the dogs.














)


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## Barb E

Glad to hear the pupper didn't eat the battery, sorry 'bout the spendy vet bill to make sure though.

I really think that there are dogs out there that don't do well with raw/kibble together so somehow the premise that it's bad bad bad got started. And of course because we are who we are we needed a reason so someone found one







(We being the collective we of course)

I bought it at first but then slowly just didn't make sense. I started mixing and no issues so have continued to do so.


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