# Sleeve preferences



## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

My husband got certified as a helper a couple of weeks ago at basic level and we're in the market for a good sleeve. Our TD has and recommended the Schweikert 9540, which is not made anymore (his has the number engraved on the cuff... he's had it for a long time, I guess they put on stickers now).

Here's what we're considering based on what I have been reading online on working dog forums and so forth... kind of wanted to get feedback if you've used any of these. We're looking for something that's mostly for training but can be used at a trial.

http://www.dogsportgear.com/bite_bar_trial_sleeves.htm

Schweikert 5980 or 5984

http://www.hallmarkk9.com/gappaytrialsleeve-soft.aspx

Gappay soft trial sleeve

http://www.totalk-9.com/index.php?page=s...uemart&Itemid=3

Eurosport trial sleeve


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Our club uses bende sleeves and covers


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## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

Those are the ones sold by Elite K9 right? I read somewhere that they were pretty hard but is there one you'd recommend, specifically?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

One suggestion I would have would be for hubby to try on several different brands of sleeves, and ideally work a dog or two in them, before buying one. Different brands of sleeves are shaped somewhat differently with different barrel lengths, widths, and angles of the handle. So size (length and circumference of arm) as well as what hand position is most natural and comfortable in terms of the handle, can make a BIG difference with regard to what sleeve works for any individual person.

For example, we have a Schweikert 80 and 82. One of our helpers loves the 80, but ends up with scraped knuckles and raspberries if he works a dog in the 82, because of the way it fits his arm. 

The angle of the handle (and thus of the bite bar presentation) on different models can be an issue. One angle may be perfect for one person, making a correct presentation easy, whereas that angle is just wrong for another person, making them have to consciously think about presenting the bitebar at the right angle because the way they generally hold their hand doesn't work well for that sleeve.

I personally love the Gappay, and on the occasions I work dogs our 10yo Gappay is far and away my favorite. But Gappay doesn't seem to be as durable as Schweikert and overall I think the Schweikert sleeves are made better than Gappay.. but the Schweikert handle angle is just wrong for me so I don't like using them.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Looks like elite k9, but they removed the labels and put their own. I buy from Danny, http://www.itbitez.net/servlet/StoreFront

our TD used to sell Bende yrs ago, Danny has the line now.

I agree with Chris, there are many diff. kinds. A trial sleeve is diff. from a training sleeve or a puppy sleeve.


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## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

Anyone know if the the 9580 and the 5980 are the same? If they are, that's what we'd buy because my husband LOVES the 9580.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Never heard of a 9580. I have a feeling it's a 5980 with a typo.


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## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

That's what I was thinking but I asked our TD to confirm and he said 9580 when I emailed him yesterday. A typo engraved on the cuff though? I emailed Schweikert so hopefully they'll tell me if it's just a typo or if the 5980 is it. Too bad I can't look at the sleeve without the cover to see if it's the same one. My hubby really likes it though.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Both Elite K9 and itbizs are Bende.

You can tell, as there is the Hungarian flag sewn on the inside....


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Both Elite K9 and itbizs are Bende.

You can tell, as there is the Hungarian flag sewn on the inside....


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

I have had a 5980 for a number of years and that number on the cuff I can barely read anymore. So, it is probably what Chris said. I have a Gappay, a Frabo, a Ray Allen, ( which weighs a ton and is never used), and the Schweikert. I always use the Schwiekert. While the dog can "feel" your arm in all the sleeves, I find they respond the best when I use the Schweikert and I can feel better what is going on as well. Yes, I get more bruises that way but that's the way it goes.
There are very subtle movements you make in the arm when you are training a dog in protection and the equipment needs to be able to allow you to do that in order to get the best response from the dog. So, for me, it's the Schweikert.
Some of the newer helpers sometimes do not hold it correctly because of the position of the handle but if he is already used to it, then that should be not be a problem.


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## lars0997 (Oct 9, 2004)

We bought a Schweikert 5980, because my husband liked Anne's and another club member also had one to use (5980 - we may have made the assumption it was a 5980, because only the "80" was able to be read/they get worn). I'm not sure if the newer models have longer bite bar or what, but my husband hates it. It's not an issue of it not being broken in (we've had it for years now), his arm is no where near the dog's mouth. I thought that the vendor had sent the wrong sleeve, but I was corrected when I spoke with the vendor and looked at the Schweikert catalog. The 5980 (now?) requires a larger cuff, because of the longer bite bar. Ours has the sticker too.

We are still looking for a sleeve like Anne has that you can feel the dog in.

Mandy


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## krylos (Oct 19, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildDifferent brands of sleeves are shaped somewhat differently with different barrel lengths, widths, and angles of the handle. So size (length and circumference of arm) as well as what hand position is most natural and comfortable in terms of the handle, can make a BIG difference with regard to what sleeve works for any individual person.
> 
> The angle of the handle (and thus of the bite bar presentation) on different models can be an issue. One angle may be perfect for one person, making a correct presentation easy, whereas that angle is just wrong for another person, making them have to consciously think about presenting the bitebar at the right angle because the way they generally hold their hand doesn't work well for that sleeve.


We are lucky that here in Omaha that a dog equipment manufacturer re-located to our town. (Chris, you might know them as the people that made your blinds) We train in their factory during the winter so I know them pretty well. When I get around to taking up helper work they are going to custom-make/fit a sleeve for me. YAY!

Donovan


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## dcw (Nov 22, 2005)

I have/had Schweikert, Frabo, Harddog, and a Belgium arm (I forget now), and one thing I've found is that each individual sleeve can vary from one to the next. Go to a vendor booth at a national sometime and try on different sleeves of the same model. They vary. The handle is not always put in exactly the same spot. The cuff can fit tighter or looser, etc. The best way is to buy one that feels comfortable for you.
Dennis


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

I think Harddog is down the road from us; about 20 minutes.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Chris Wild.. but the Schweikert handle angle is just wrong for me so I don't like using them.


HAve you tried relocating the handle to a position that's better for you? From what I understand from speaking with the folks at dogsportgear.com, the handle screw are accessible, and you can just unscrew them, drill new holes and VOILA! Haven't seen the Schwiekerts yet, but wanted your feedback on that possibility.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: MrLeadFoot
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Chris Wild.. but the Schweikert handle angle is just wrong for me so I don't like using them.
> ...


I don't think this is an option available on all sleeves, only some. I've actually seen some brands advertised with adjustable handles.

I've never looked into doing it with a Schweikert, so don't really know if it could be done or not. Really wouldn't try since the rest of our helpers like the Schweikerts the way they are, and they work 95% of the dogs. For the 1-2 dogs I work each week, I'll just use my Gappay and not screw up their Schweikerts.


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## MENG329 (Aug 27, 2009)

Hi,

New to the board but not to the sport. To weigh in on the discussion I have a 2 Gappay sleeves and 4 Schweikert sleeves due to the fact that they all feel a little different. But my sleeve of choice for training is the Schweikert 5980. It has a deep bitebar that is compressible so I can feel the dog's grip. For trials I use the 5894 as it is a harder sleeve. From my experience the Schweikerts are more durable. But like many others have said it's personal preference and achieving the right feel is the top priority.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

Got a Schweikert 5983 a couple of weeks ago. Positioning of the handle makes your hand fee like it's in more of a palm-up position. In reality, it isn't; it just FEELS like it. In fact, with the sleeve held at chest position, your palm is parallel to your chest, but the "load" upon a dog tugging is placed on your bicep, kind of like doing a dumbell curl with your palm up.

I prefer a more neutral grip, like when you're doing a "hammer curls", or holding a dumbell at your side in a natural position. In this position, the load is more evenly distributed across the biceps, forearm and the brachioradialis (the muscle that ties the forearm together with the biceps), which results in a much stronger position, thus more control of the sleeve.

Depending upon the type of training you're doing, the standard position is fine. I do PPD work, so I want to be able to hold the sleeve every which way I want, even above my head, and the standard position of the handle prevents me from confortably presenting the sleeve properly at head-height and higher, so I will be re-positioning the handle myself. While I am not sure about other Schweikerts, the screws that hold the handle on the 5983 are accessible under small leather covers, so all I need to do is remove the leather covers, remove the screws and handle, and drill new holes that allow be to position the handle in a more appropriate position. In fact, I'm going to do that right now.


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## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

We went with a Schweikert 5980. Got a killer deal on an unused one.


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