# Miss Indy is losing her hearing...



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

It's official. I've suspected it for awhile, but had confirmation the other day as I stood behind her and spoke to her, with not a single reaction. She will react to louder sounds, so it's not all gone.

I'm caretaker for 2 parents and 2 dogs, now 3 out of 4 have hearing impairments!!

I hope that she doesn't lose all of it, I still want to be able to have her off leash and hear the whistle. At least I have some warning, I can start associating some new hand signals with words that she already knows. She has quite the extensive vocabulary, no way I'll have that many hand signals though!!

No wonder she doesn't bark at the kids out front so much anymore, she probably doesn't always hear them. I guess there are some advantages.


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## Elmo's Mom (May 21, 2007)

Awww.... poor Miss Indy. Sometimes I wonder whether their hearing loss is harder on us than it is on them. 

You are right about having a heads up. It does help. 

Our Pomeranian can barely hear anything and our Jack Russell's hearing is not as good as it once was.


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

Mention it the next time Indy has acupuncture. The needles go in near the ears. LJ was practically deaf before acupuncture. Now she can hear the treat bag open from the next room!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

You might be right Bonita, I was questioning myself whether I will still talk to her if she can't hear. Of course I will, and that's all about me!

Joanne, Criminey! she can't do acupuncture because of the needles







. BUT, I do have my red light acupuncture thingee, and I should try that with her. She is very sensitive around her ears. I'm also going to try the oregano oil for a bit, in case her ears are inflamed. I can hear her stuffy nose - we all have inflamed noses and maybe even ears here, from *something*.

All this time I thought she was being super stubborn, but it was just her regular stubborn, with hearing loss!

ETA: That is so cool about LJ and the bag of chips!


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

I bet that red light thingee will work just as well!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I hope so, just gotta figure where to point the thing. I can ask the vet next time I'm in. I just think it's so cool how well it worked for LJ


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## Elmo's Mom (May 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTAll this time I thought she was being super stubborn, but it was just her regular stubborn, with hearing loss!


That's exactly what we thought with Molly at first. She's always been a bit sassy and marches to the beat of her own drummer. It took us a while to realize her hearing was going down. 

That is amazing about LJ's acupuncture treatment.


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

When my late Solo began to lose her hearing I also thought it was just selective hearing. Then she began to startle if you petted her from behind or came upon her suddenly.

I learned to walk a little harder so she would 'feel' me coming and that helped. The biggest help though is that Skye would go get her if she was not looking at us and it was time to come inside. 

Hopefully treating Indy's ears will help a little and your "red light thingy.'









Hang in there, Indy - let your mom work on those ears.

Our seniors just keep us worrying, don't they. I'd do it all over though to have mine back.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

yeah, Indy has always been pretty independent, so I thought she was just being, well, Indy.

Unfortunately, Max just isn't that helpful, I think I'd faint and crack my scull open if he went and got Indy for me. Maybe he will surprise me?

I'm with you Bonnie, I'd certainly rather have to adapt to her changes, than to not have her here. And when her time comes, I will miss all of it







Solo

As for the red light thingee, here it is: http://www.mclarenusainc.com/therapy.htm I bought it years ago, in the long run, it was cheaper than what I was paying to have it done, and I get to use it on everyone!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

So sorry to hear about Indy and her hearing troubles. Fingers crossed that you can find the best solution to accomodate her needs and yours.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I remember when Chama started losing her hearing. She was also very independent (compared to a shepherd) so it took me a little while to catch on.









She adapted pretty well though and learned some new hand signals. She was also one with a huge vocabulary. She did withdraw a bit so i had to work harder to be sure to include her. 

Big hugs to you--so much happening at once with your pups!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Thank you Zisso









Ruth, now that you mention it, I do worry about her being left out, since she has always been so aware of what is happening around her. But good point about just working a bit harder to bring her in.

I noticed that she wasn't always at the door waiting for me to come in after I drove up. Figured she was just sleeping more soundly. I think it was likely the hearing.


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

When Rica lost her hearing, we used hand signals for her. I had limited success with getting Aodhán to get her when they were out in their yard at night. I found that switching the light on and off helped. And if that didn't work I'd just have to go and get her.

But she didn't really withdraw all that much because of the hearing loss. She was pretty vocal and would bark to let us know that she needed something - especially when she would be outside and needed help getting back up the hill to come in. And she was vocal when she wanted to be included in activities - like if I was trying to play ball with Aodhán. She always wanted to be in on the action.
It used to crack me up when she would start barking out of the blue. I never could figure out what she was barking at.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Zamboni was like Rica. She wasn't ABOUT To be left out because she couldn't hear! After a lifetime of walking off leash, she decided she liked walking on leash better, and she liked walking a bit behind me so she could keep track of us -- unless we were in the woods, and the other kids were also off leash, because she knew Camper would come find her when it was time to keep moving.

At home, she'd just bark at the back door to go out, and bark to come back in. In fact, I'm sure she wondered why she didn't think of this years ago.









Boni never knew hand signals, but she learned them very fast (the power of high value treats!







). I tapped on walls and floors if she was napping, so I didn't startle her. If she had her back turned, I could just toss a light weight toy (wadded up sock, hand towel, wadded up piece of paper, whatever...) from across the room so that it landed near her; then she'd look to see what I wanted. Sometimes, I just had to walk over and tap her. But actually, not that often.

The most important thing I learned was to ALWAYS let her know when I was leaving. It seemed nicer to let her sleep if I was just leaving for 10 minutes, but I found that when I returned, instead of being her normal unflappable self, she was lying by the front door, very worried. I assume she probably walked through the whole house looking for me before she realized I had gone without tellling her. 

So I just learned to wake her, so that she would watch me leave. Then, I came home to a peacefully sleeping senior that I could wake up to say "Hi. I'm home!" to. She was happy I was home and all was good.









We took an agility class when she was 15 yrs old, and she had virtually no hearing left. We did it all with hand signals, luring and lots of clapping and jumping around. She loved it! Her nose was good. Her eyes were probably fuzzy, but her brain was sharp. With a loving attentive owner (which you are!), a hearing loss is something that our dogs can work around better than we expect. 

We mourn the loss of hearing because WE communicate via speech. But our dogs read our body language, our mannerisms and facial expressions, smell our pheromones and go through life based on our tiny routines that we're not even aware of. Most of the time, they're not really listening to *most* of what we say anyhow. They pay attention to how we say it, the context we say it in, and what else we're doing while we say it. 

Indy will be ok. It's just a "new normal" and the two of you will find it.







I have complete faith in both of you.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomIndy will be ok. It's just a "new normal" and the two of you will find it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree. Dogs are very adaptable and take things as they come. Sneaker's hearing went away gradually, and it didn't seem to bother her. Fortunately, her vision remained very good - I think it would be harder to lose both than just one, either one.


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## GSD10 (May 20, 2007)

Oh Lisa, sorry to hear about Indy's hearing loss. That was a hard pill for me to swallow when I realized Mas was losing his hear about 18 months ago. 

Hand signal, clapping and whistling have all worked with Mas as well as tapping on the floor when I enter the room so I don't scare the fur off of him when all of a sudden he sees that I am home. 

Oh don't be surprised is Max picks up on it and makes it his job to get Indy and watch out for her. I am still working on making Mas Heinrich's job...to some some degree







I think Mas has actually coped better with Heinrich around 'cause the buffoons just feed off one another.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Thank you everyone, wonderful suggestions and support!!

Funny, she has been barking a ton more than she used to - it must be the Rica phenomenon







AND.....on walks with Max, she has been trailing behind us (I thought maybe it was her eyes!), and on walks alone, she will go in front a bit, but is unsure and checks in a lot! I'm guessing that she's not comfortable with Max unless she can keep her eyes on him, since she's not hearing well









I will make sure that I don't leave without her knowing, and work on those room entrances too, etc.. I know she can still hear some, but I don't know how well she makes out words, much like my mom sometimes!!

And I suspect that you all are right, that this will be tougher on me than it will be on her. I *really* hope that her eyes don't get too bad, I think you are right Cassidys Mom, if she can keep her vision, or most of it, then she will be in good shape.

You guys are great, thanks again!


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Lisa,
sorry to hear of Indy's hearing......Max lost all of his the last year or so.........thankfully he was pretty good with hand signals, and had his eye sight...........i just had to keep him at a close range so he could see me and my hand signals........

at first i was like you thinking it was him being stubborn because he was.........lol 

thankfully Toby has kept alot of his hearing........because of the pannus he only has half sight in each eye.........but, they do seem to get along fine because they have so many other senses.....don't forget they have such keen smell......even though Toby can't see well now........when he is sleeping and i see him wake up he immediately air scents to see where i am.......its really amazing.....


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

They are so good at compensating, aren't they?

Indy's loss is more advanced than I thought. I was testing her out last night using that favorite phrase "do you want a treat". 

Now that I'm trying to be more visual with her, I can see that she is really responsive to that - she's probably thinking it's about time that I clued into what is going on


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Stanley Coren writes about dogs who start to lose their hearing and how they bark a lot more than they ever did... I think he said that they find it reassuring. (It's been years since I read it. I'll get the book out and look it up for you.)

I found that Boni did. She barked ALL the time, which indicated to me that she probably lost a lot of hearing at once . But then she settled down and only barked when she really needed something. 

A bit off topic, but this made me think about what human activities might cause hearing loss. A friend who put in a professional quality dedicated home theater says that about 1-2 years after they put in the theater, their cat that watched movies with them had gone completely deaf, and within a short period of time. She was pretty certain it was the theatre. (They listen to their movies LOUD --- I can't even bear to watch movies there, despite their very cool set up.) Their other cat (approximately same age) still had great hearing. 

I had never thought about it, but Zamboni's bed in the family room was near where Dh put the stereo woofer. I wasn't one to ever play my car or house stereo loud (I have sensitive hearing and it hurts!), but Dh did. We never really thought much about it. 

I'm not speculating what has caused Indy's hearing loss. It's likely just age, genetics, etc. But I've learned to keep the stereo even lower, and we have a rule that if the dogs are at home or the car, then Dh has to keep the stereo below a certain setting as well. When there are fireworks or other loud noises (like construction), the kids are in the house or taken away, to the best of our ability. Maybe it's paranoia (who? Moi?







) but maybe it will help prevent hearing loss.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i am sure she is going to do fine with it.remember dogs see and hear the world through their nose........

i had a website somewhere about deaf dogs and training them.i will see if i can find it.......actually my brother has a cattle dog thats deaf and they are doing some special training with him....pretty interesting.....


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Lori, I think I have that Stanley Coren book, I will go look for the hearing part. He talks about the issue wrt to gun dogs and how they lose their hearing faster too.

Well, I have always been paranoid







Even in the car, when Indy's in the back, I put the speaker noise to the forward speakers. BUT, Indy has always been noise sensitive with very acute hearing. Anything loud, she leaves the room, it's the nerve condition of hers from the vaccines.

Just seems like all of a sudden her little skinny body is having trouble holding everything together. It's done a lot of fighting over the years, and must be a bit worn out. I know that some cavaliers go deaf because of nerve degeneration in the ears, rather than the problems that gun dogs have with loud noises, so maybe this is yet another thing I can blame on those stupid vaccines









debbie, she has been sniffing a lot more lately too


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Miss Indy


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I will pass them along


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTdebbie, she has been sniffing a lot more lately too


Does she sniff more after the red light thingee?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I haven't noticed yet, but one ear was *super* sensitive. I will have to remember to do it several days in a row. I'm just pointing it all around, wish I knew what I was doing!!


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

I tried to find a canine acupuncture chart online, but couldn't. They were all tiny.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I have stuff here, I just don't understand it...


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Lisa, I don't have time to read through all this right now but I did have a thought...do you think she could hear those high pitched dog whistles? Maybe that would help with recall later??? Its just a thought and now I have to run.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: shilohsmomLisa, I don't have time to read through all this right now but I did have a thought...do you think she could hear those high pitched dog whistles? Maybe that would help with recall later??? Its just a thought and now I have to run.


The above (my reply) is really stupid advise and I apologize. I read only the first part of things, had a thought and posted it... now that I read through the thread I'm realizing this wasn't the advise you needed. Next time I'll be more careful to read things. 

Hugs,


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Gosh Rosa... we've all done that...









I can think of some members who do that regularly, but never even come back and realize that their info was, well... less than helpful...


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomI can think of some members who do that regularly, but never even come back and realize that their info was, well... less than helpful...


**snicker**

I was thinking that if it came down to where that whistle was the only thing that Indy could hear, it would still be useful in outdoor situations!

And I agree with 3K9 - we've all posted quickly, only to come back and, uh, revise our post!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Lisa, is it colloidal silver (homeopathy) that holistic vets use for hearing loss issues in dogs? I can't recall for sure. Might that help Indy? Just an idea. I wish I knew more and could help! Indy sure is lucky to have such a well-read Mom championing her and supporting her health. We love you, Miss Indy!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I haven't heard that, but I am not that familiar with colloidal silver. As soon as I can get Max stable on a treatment, then I will have to do some more research for Miss Indy.

Thank you for the continued support


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Lisa, you put your all into your dogs' health. I admire the dedication and determination you have. I simply wish that I had better solutions to offer than just the colloidal silver homeopathy idea. You, Max, and Indy are all in my thoughts!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Thanks Patti. I guess I just don't see any other option. We appreciate your thoughts and those healing energies!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I just poked around online, and couldn't find the reference. I had heard the silver (colloidal or nitrate?) EARS ago when a friend's dog began to lose his hearing. I wish that I could find the links now.







Sending more of those positive, healing energies-- to Max







as well as Indy!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Brightelf..... I had heard the silver (colloidal or nitrate?) EARS ago










thanks for looking!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

OMG! That was a legit typo, too!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Too funny!


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

Just in case anyone else is interested, here's the acupuncture point for hearing (sorry the picture quality, the dog chewed my phone):


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

That's a cool pic, now I know where to point my funny red light thingee - she is pretty reactive in those spots, for whatever that's worth.

Sometimes she seems to hear what I am saying more than others, so I think it is much like my mom's hearing, where she is losing more hearing at certain pitches. I am trying not to talk to her in too low of a pitch - I remember Stanley Coren talking about small dogs having better high pitch hearing, and larger dogs having better low pitch hearing, seems true for the ones here.

She has learned the hand signal for Max and the one for Indy. When I sign her name, she barks at me now, knowing that there is something good for her (her time for a walk, or a treat)


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTShe has learned the hand signal for Max and the one for Indy. When I sign her name, she barks at me now, knowing that there is something good for her (her time for a walk, or a treat)


How cool! Indy is very smart!


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

That is cool. 

Mine don't even acknowledge the difference in their spoken names - call one and sure to get the other.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Yes, Indy is very smart - she is the wise one. Max is the one that always reacts before he thinks









If they think that I have something good, both will come too!


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