# I'm curious....



## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Approximately what percentage of folks who compete in schutzhund take a raw untrained pup and raise it up then title it....

What percentage of those do it alone...
What percentage hire a trainer?
what percentage send their dog somewhere to be trained?
Or what percentage buy titled dogs and go from there?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Where do you fit those that train with a club? I trained Nikon 7 weeks to present and he has a SchH title and breed survey among other things. I also trained Pan 7 weeks to 2 years and did everything for his breed survey except the SchH title (BH, AD, SG rating, hip/elbow certs). I did none of the above, I trained with clubs.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Lol... I should have added the club training too... but in my mind that would count as raising from pup to title... fyi I really hope to get in a club by end of February ... that's when my one on one training sessions run out and ill need to big more


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think most everyone trains with a club or group. Especially if they are new to the sport. Where I've trained(a few different clubs/groups) only a couple people had dogs that they didn't have as young pups. Most all are/were HOT. 
Why are your sessions ending? 
Can you still train with your one on one person, or are they going to be too busy when trial season kicks back up? If there is another person in your area, maybe you and that person could train together and the one on one trainer will reduce fees if there is more than just you w/ private lessons. Always good to have another dog on the field or in the venue just for distractions, too.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I think most everyone trains with a club or group. Especially if they are new to the sport. Where I've trained(a few different clubs/groups) only a couple people had dogs that they didn't have as young pups. Most all are/were HOT.
> Why are your sessions ending?
> Can you still train with your one on one person, or are they going to be too busy when trial season kicks back up? If there is another person in your area, maybe you and that person could train together and the one on one trainer will reduce fees if there is more than just you w/ private lessons. Always good to have another dog on the field or in the venue just for distractions, too.


Just my prepaid sessions are ending,,, I'm just wanting to get more experience .. I want to continue one on one.. but at $75 an hour,, it adds up


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Club is the way to go!! It's so much fun. Great Convo, good friends and dog training. Doesn't get much better than that. 


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## UnlimitedGSD (Oct 16, 2012)

I titled my raw pup - my first SchH dog - 2 years, 9 months - IPO 3 
(it takes a village! - otherwise known as a club)

Phyre vom Patiala, IPO 3 AD TD RN CAN/AM CD TEC CGN HIC, a-stamp H/E CERF OFA Cardio


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Capone22 said:


> Club is the way to go!! It's so much fun. Great Convo, good friends and dog training. Doesn't get much better than that.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I've had no luck getting with a club in my area... there are three ... one isn't taking new members at all, one other never responded to my emails and phone calls... the other, after dozens of attempts to contact them, finally got back with me to invite me to meet them... they gave me less than an hour notice and I wasn't able to make it... I've even gone as far as to request different days off at work to accommodate... I work 6am-2pm... I was off Fridays and Saturdays .... beginning in February, ill be off on Sundays and Mondays ... this'll allow me to meet with a club on Sunday ... there is a trial coming here at Canine headquarters in February and Regionals in Houston in March ... going to do what I can to attend those to be able to meet some folks


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## MilesNY (Aug 12, 2010)

I would say most either get a puppy or young untrained dog and train it themselves. I got mine at 8 weeks old and everything that is right or wrong with him his all me! 

Now I have had to retire my border collie from agility so I am starting him in Schutzhund too. So far he is loving it. That's what I think most people do train the dogs they have, themselves, for the joy of working with your dog. 

Good luck to you! Clubs are great!


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

For some reason, I was under the impression alot of folks bought sch1 or sch2 dogs then worked them to a 3


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## UnlimitedGSD (Oct 16, 2012)

I have seen a few people buy dogs with an SchH 3 or just a BH, but never a 1 or 2 in my experience.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I am still training my youngest who I got at almost 14 weeks old.

I have worked with a club and a private trainer.

She is 21 months old and will be going for her BH this spring with her IPO1 shortly after.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I had mine from 8 weeks on, titled them myself. Much of the helper work myself. My club is very new. I'm the first to IPO1 and IPO2, and will be the first to IPO3, now I'm also the club helper


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Treue vom Heiliger Huegel SchH3 CD CGC form 7 weeks.
Burgos' Unika SchH1 OB1 (Nike) from 9.5 weeks 
then her daughter
Balien zu Treuen Händen SchH3 AWD1 FH2 CGC (Vala)
and her daughter
SG1 Dejavu zu Treuen Händen IPO2 AWD1 KKL1
I am also working on my 5th dog, another Vala daughter
SG Elena zu Treuen Händen BH

There are people that buy young dogs, dogs with BH, dogs with IPO/SchH1 and dogs that are fully titled. I like training my dogs from puppies.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

My trainer made a comment about buying an already titled dog... he said they're fine if you do the routine in order,, but if you do them out of order they get confused... he was making the point that he wants me to mix up the order as much as I can so Yoschi knows the commands and not just the routine.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Hmmm....I don't believe that, unless the dog was drilled with pattern training over and over. 
I've never pattern trained, and seldom do the whole routine in order. Always break down the exercises. Though I know many who do the send out as the last exercise during obedience never failing. The dog knows OB's over after the send out.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Most people who really competes in Schutzhund train their own dogs, with only one exception... 

Show people who only want the dog trained for the breed survey and to participate in the working class hire someone.

In my experience.


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## lsatov (Mar 29, 2011)

I train with a club and do privates. The club offers a great atmosphere, distractions, great field and use of equipment that I do not have to buy. I also learn from watching others. I do private for many reasons, to get a better understanding of myself has a handler and my dog. To gain more indepth insights into my dog.

One thing I learned that paid of big time is I do not pattern train, and I have now a good read on my dog I know when I need to support her and when to back off.

Raised the dog from a pup. She got her BH in the fall of 2012 with a score of 55/60 under very tough judge. Will be doing IPO1 in the spring and maybe IPO2 in the fall


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

There are breeders that buy titled dogs or send their dogs away to be titled. It is fairly common in the show world. Though, working dogs are sent away as well so it is incorrect to say only show people do this. By the time transportation/training fees/trial fees/practice are factored in, it's probably cheaper to send away to be titled than to do it yourself, but it's far more rewarding and informative to do it yourself. Lots of breeders buy titled older dogs for breeding purposes. Brokers can make good money on titled dogs that are not popular for breeding by selling to homes as "protection dogs" etc. People also buy titled or young dogs with work started for competition and sport. It would be interesting to see who all competing at high level sport actually started at 8wks with the pup versus buying a young dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Look at the entry/results...usually the HOT info is included in the teams postings.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Yes, but starting with a pup at 8 weeks versus buying a green dog at 1 year is different 
B/HOT is an even smaller pool and should be recognized for their exceptional efforts.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The working line and/or SchH competitor people I know who send a dog away generally send it to someone as a young puppy to get a good foundation on some particular skill, like go to someone who is really good with tracking foundation. Whereas the show line people I know that send a dog away often wait until the dog is 1 or 2 years old and then send it to get a title and don't seem to care about the lack of foundation (dogs somehow returned titled after 6 months or less).


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

onyx'girl said:


> Look at the entry/results...usually the HOT info is included in the teams postings.


Depends on the definition of HOT. Heard of dogs trained and not titled as young dogs, up to a few years old. Then trained a bit more and titled by new owner. Them you hear the argument of who really trained the dog 

Both working and show people/breeders send their dogs off for training and titling. Some abnormally quick results…..and never worked again, once home.

High level completion HOT? WUSV and FCI recap below. Does not include the National events here and in Europe. 1st two dogs were at the European Championship, that truned into the WUSV.....

*Year Dog (all trained by Gabor)*
1976 Axel SCH3,VK3*(10th place, Gabor 22 years old)*
1977 Axel SCH3, VK3
1978 Axel SCH3, VK3

1989 Bavaria Larry SCH3, IPO3, VK3
1990 Bavaria Larry SCH3, IPO3, VK3
1991 Bavaria Larry SCH3, IPO3, VK3
1992 Bavaria Larry SCH3, IPO3, VK3
1993 Bavaria Larry SCH3, IPO3, VK3
1994 Bavaria Larry SCH3, IPO3, VK3
1995 Bavaria Larry SCH3, IPO3, VK3*(20th place)*
1996 Bavaria Larry SCH3, IPO3, VK3

2001 KK1 Drigon from Korinthiakos SCH3,IPO3,VK3,FH WUSV 
2002 KK1 Drigon from Korinthiakos SCH3,IPO3,VK3,FH WUSV
2003 KK1 Drigon from Korinthiakos SCH3,IPO3,VK3,FH WUSV

2005 KK1 Molinari Enzo SCH3,IPO3,VK3, FH*WUSV *
2006 KK1 Molinari Enzo SCH3,IPO3,VK3, FH* WUSV*
*Qualified for 3 World teams - 2xFCI, WUSV) *
2007 KK1 Molinari Enzo SCH3,IPO3,VK3, FH
on *both *2007 FCI World 2007 WUSV World Teams. 
2008 KK1 Molinari Enzo SCH3,IPO3,VK3, FH
on *both *2008 FCI and 2008 WUSV World Teams. 

2010 KK1 Frodo van de Biezenhoeve SCH3, IPO3, HPO3 
on *both* 2010 FCI World and 2012 WUSV World Teams.
2011 KK1 Frodo van de Biezenhoeve SCH3, IPO3, HPO3 
on *both* 2011 FCI World and 2011 WUSV World Teams.
2012 KK1 Frodo van de Biezenhoeve SCH3, IPO3, HPO3
on *both *2012 FCI World and 2012 WUSV World Teams.


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