# Problems Socializing...



## Carson&Torri (May 19, 2011)

Carson is a good dog-in fact, I'd say he's a GREAT dog (possibly a wee bit biased lol), but we seem to be having a hard time with socializing. At first it was a question of whether he was displaying dominant or aggressive behavior-and it's been determined that in cases where there ARE issues, it is definitely a dominance issue. Now, the questions are how can we 'fix' it? How can I get him to AT LEAST get along with our other girl (a Husky/Akita mix-who is also, apparently, a closet dominant dog)? Where do we go? How should I react to him when he acts like I don't want him to? How can I find a behaviorist/how much do they cost? And HOW ON EARTH can I get anyone to let their dog loose in the dog park with Carson???

I am so lost right now, it's not even funny (haha). Carson is 1 & 1/2 years old, still intact (still working on that...), and not THAT big (when you consider typical GSD size)-coming in around at 65lbs. I got him around...a little more than two months ago-he was a stray, and not in that great of condition. Where ever he had come from, he was not very loved. After bathing him and ridding him of all the ticks and fleas that were on him, and putting some weight on him, I got to see what an absolutely beautiful boy he is! I do not believe that his last owners ever did much with him other than stick him in the back yard-he didn't know any commands and doesn't seem to know how to play around other dogs. So...being that we have another dog, it is a must to get him socialized! As I said earlier, it appears that both our Husky/Akita and Carson are both dominant dogs (they were going to kill each other when we tried to introduce them numerous times before-all under different circumstances and in different places) <-I do not exaggerate here...So I need help.

I understand that it is a breed fear thing when it comes to going to the dog parks and having everyone scatter when you show up, but how am I supposed to help him socialize and be a good dog around other dogs if I can't teach him to play nice?

It's been suggested that I find a behaviorist around here to come and access Carson, but how do I find one? And how much can I expect to pay for them?

If I can get some advice that works (like I have so far!), I will try my best to teach Carson what I can...but how do I teach him to behave around other dogs? Around another dominant dog???

ANY advice would be helpful! Thanks!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Can you explain what behaviors you are having problems with? Why do you think they are definitely due to dominance?


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

People might be able to suggest a trainer or behaviorist if you give them a general idea of where you live.

The cost is really going to depend on the going rate in your area. Around us (Connecticut) I've seen anything from 75.00 and hour and up for an evaluation and 125.00-150.00 for an 8 week training class.


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## Carson&Torri (May 19, 2011)

When we have tried to introduce Sheba (our other dog, the female Husky/Akita mix) and Carson in new places neither of them have been, Carson goes NUTS. As does Sheba-she is out right viscous when she and him are together-which she has never been towards any other dog (at least never this long). Carson used to immediately lunge to the end of the lead at just the sight of another dog/cat/squirrel/bunny, but now that that is not SO much of an issue, there's the barking. If you've ever heard a German Shepherd scream,-that is what he sounds like when he gets up to Sheba. Most other dogs, he is ok with until they bark, then it's on, and Carson will stop at nothing to get to the new dog and sometimes he has grabbed them around their throat or paws, all the while barking in his really high pitched voice-which I've thought of as his "play" bark sort of...-he does have a deeper bark when there is someone behind our house or coming up in the dark on our walks, so that's why I say the high pitched bark is his "play" bark. 

I believe I've said it in another thread...but it seems we have a problem with misinterpretation. MOST dogs that we have successfully introduced to Carson did not have pointed ears. They were floppy or half-way and the dogs varied in size from puppies to adult greyhounds and great danes. We tried to introduce Carson to another German Shepherd-this one was white and about the same size as Carson, also intact-it went well for about 2 minutes before they decided it was ok to take each others heads off...at which point the other owner and I picked them apart from each other and went our separate ways (they were off-lead). Carson also seemed to have issues with a pom-pom we ran into at the pet store and another dog that is at the house with us who is a neutered male shep/perynese mix with pointed ears...maybe it is the ears??? And if it is, how on earth can I correct it? I can't exactly tape Sheba's ears down 'til they get along lol (that IS a joke...I would never do that). So far, the worst I've seen Carson react to another dog has been with Sheba-if we hadn't been there and they had got loose somehow one of them would have died. Already, Sheba has had her paw split open (not sure it was because of Carson-she had another confrontation with the other dog in the house the same day) and Carson has had his ear torn up a little bit because the person who was holding her that time misjudged how strong she was and lost their grip on her lead. Sheba has never shown herself to be so viscous and has been great with every other dog except Carson. Carson was wagging his tail and barking in his real high pitched voice until Sheba started snarling at him, then he stopped wagging his tail, and started growling to (usually at this point, if we are walking them, we will start walking away from each other and not say anything to the dogs). 

I really hope I haven't messed up anything with this...right now we have Sheba and Carson in their crates right next to each other with a piece of cardboard between the cages. This has been just as of last night and they get let out separately. Carson was outside because he does not do well staying in his crate for long unless it's night, and he is not housebroken. I brought him in because it has gotten way too hot out for anyone to be outside in Alabama. At first, Sheba had a problem with it, but has since quieted down a bit. Carson, however...I'm not sure what to do with him  I don't want to keep him in his crate, but there are two dogs besides Carson and Sheba here so he cannot be let loose in the house. Neither of the other two dogs get along with him. Thought about moving Carsons crate upstairs where my room is, but the baby gate is insufficient to keep him in (oh he can jump! lol) and people in the house are not reliable enough to keep it closed- and if I bring him upstairs, Sheba knows and she will howl and carry on (she is jealous every time I go outside and play with Carson)-she especially doesn't like it if she knows her "daddy" is playing with Carson. What we have set up right now is the compromise we have come to...just hope I'm not screwing it up 

I am located in the Huntsville, AL area, but have had little luck with trainers...

Hope some part of this makes sense lol


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## jmoney (Jul 21, 2010)

Mine had issues with charging as a very young pup, she is not even allowed to look at other dogs now unless I make the approach, even then she remains calm still and avoids the eyes.

If you are having problems, I would suggest first finding a friend with a non-agressive or dominant dog wait with a leash, and move in slower and slower circles correcting your dog if they even begin to move towards the dog, I use an e-collar and never suggest using one without proper training, I like Ed frawley's method and it worked very quickly for us.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

I always find it interesting when someone introduces their dog as a great dog then they start to elaborate on their defects.


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## fgshepherd (Sep 1, 2010)

Hi Carson&Torri -
First of all, God bless you for rescuing this poor fella! Sounds like he was in real need of a good home! Next, from my limited experience with GSD's, I can only offer two pieces of advice: PLEASE HAVE PATIENCE! PLEASE BE CONSITENT! We rescued our dog almost a year ago, and I work with him every day. I see a LOT of progress, but he will need much more training. The trainer will probably tell you the same thing. Be patient, be consistent. GSD's are SUPER intelligent, and they learn VERY quickly, but boy do they want to be the BOSS! Thanks again for saving a good dog.


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## Carson&Torri (May 19, 2011)

Thank you fgshepherd :] and to Paddy-yes...but I have much more good things than bad to say about him, this thread was simply to seek out advice on how I might correct the issues that I am having. And to jmoney-I will have to look into that method...

Today we went to the dog park (no problems with that) and a boxer/pyrenese came in-BIG dog and easily twice Carsons size. The other dog was a neutered male and after they both "said hello" it looked like it would be alright to go let 'em play, which we did. Everything went pretty well when Carson thought he might have to confirm who the other dog was (?) lol-I'm not sure why exactly but he went back to the boxer x and shoved his nose back into his butt like it was the best smell in the world and then trouble began to brew when the boxers hackles went up...all the way down his body. Carson must have been getting a little TOO personal with him I guess. So we did leave before they got into a fight...

I'm considering making an air-horn a permanent addition to the bag I carry with "doggy-day-out" supplies...you know, to make a distraction if ever he gets into a fight. What do you all think?

Last night we had a major "break through" and actually got to walk both Sheba and Carson together, side by side without issue and they seemed fine even in the house together walking whither to whither. However, tonight's walk together did not go so smoothly and we ended up having to walk separate ways because they were snapping and growling at each other just like the very first day. I don't know what went wrong where...back to the drawing board maybe??? Along my walk going our separate ways tonight though we ran into some new neighbors and their little beagle puppy-who Carson promptly decided was a threat before even sniffing. I don't know what's going on...I had a loose leash, so there was no tension from me and I was already saying hello to the owners, so I don't know. Another dog we passed going back home was a mixed medium dog who Carson also decided he did not want to be nice to. We did actually get to go up to her and he sniffed her then started barking and growling. This cannot keep going on...Carson is now officially being called a liability in the house to the other three dogs and the neighborhood dogs. I cannot seem to pinpoint which dogs he will be "OK" with-which so far has been none off-lead. 

We are supposed to be taking a hike this weekend and a friend is bringing their very well mannered dog along and Carson will be going as well. If Carson doesn't do well with this guy and his dog (he is ex-military dog trainer) then I don't know what I'm going to do...we've been discussing the possibility of finding him a new home, but haven't decide where to draw the line at. At what point should we seriously consider finding him a new home? I don't want to lose my new buddy...I've already grown to love this guy so much! With us moving into a smaller house though I don't think that it will be fair to have to keep one dog crated while another is out and about because they can't get along, that's just not a good life.


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## KAE (Jun 21, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> I always find it interesting when someone introduces their dog as a great dog then they start to elaborate on their defects.


I find it interesting that there are sometimes pointless replies that in no way help the thread at all.

However, my dog is doing the same thing, and hoping for some more suggestions. My pup only barks at some dogs and ignores other.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

first do NOT go to the dog park!!!! Keep your dog on leash, train him, LOTS. Train your girl and your other 2 dogs that aren't all getting along. Train individually and walk all 4 together, on leads, 2 per side, yes you can do that, work toward that goal. He doesn't need to learn how to get along, he needs to learn boundaries and rules and obedience. You say your female gets along with all other dogs but him, well she is reading him better than you are and she knows he needs correcting and some rules and since you haven't managed, she is trying to instill them. Strict rules must be obeyed!!!! Keep him on lead attached to you and insist he listen and behave. Practice NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free, look it up. When you control all 4 of your dogs, they will all listen and get along and all will be better for it. Dog parks are problem areas for lots of dogs.

After you get some control, then venture out. classes will help but check them out first, lots of real bad trainers who will insist on violent techniques just cause it is a GS, remember he isn't being bad, he doesn't know what is expected of him. Be kind and he will do well, oh yeah neutering may help


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## jmoney (Jul 21, 2010)

trudy said:


> first do NOT go to the dog park!!!! Keep your dog on leash, train him, LOTS. Train your girl and your other 2 dogs that aren't all getting along. Train individually and walk all 4 together, on leads, 2 per side, yes you can do that, work toward that goal. He doesn't need to learn how to get along, he needs to learn boundaries and rules and obedience. You say your female gets along with all other dogs but him, well she is reading him better than you are and she knows he needs correcting and some rules and since you haven't managed, she is trying to instill them. Strict rules must be obeyed!!!! Keep him on lead attached to you and insist he listen and behave. Practice NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free, look it up. When you control all 4 of your dogs, they will all listen and get along and all will be better for it. Dog parks are problem areas for lots of dogs.
> 
> After you get some control, then venture out. classes will help but check them out first, lots of real bad trainers who will insist on violent techniques just cause it is a GS, remember he isn't being bad, he doesn't know what is expected of him. Be kind and he will do well, oh yeah neutering may help


I agree if you care about your dog, do not take your dog to the dog park. I don't have a problem with them if you have little dogs and stay on a side dedicated for under 25 LBS.

When our GSD was a pup I would go out to the dog park around 10-11 Am when no one is out there just to have a place to work on her off lead training, a lady with 2 9 mo old pit bulls showed up, we moved to the far back to avoid her, her dogs started working like a pack and made a bee line for my pup and attacked her, I ended up mortally injuring one in order to save my dog. You never know what moron is going to come up there, and at the large dog park especially in our town, there are several 19 year old college kids living on their own in an apartment for the first time who find it necessary to get a large dog and keep it confined in an apartment all day with 0 training.


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## Carson&Torri (May 19, 2011)

Trudy, thank you, I haven't heard of NILIF yet...I will check that out. The other two dogs are not mine though-hence why I haven't named them. My boyfriend and I were evicted form our apartment and some family friends were nice enough to take us all in-unfortunately it's just taking us a bit longer to get back on our feet and get out...the house owners dogs are "trained", however, the older of the two is a guard/watch dog and at 7yrs old is NOT something I would want to mess with. He has been made that way and unfortunately it's not my place to correct him. The other dog-a 3yr old is just a follower and does whatever the older one does. Walking all four is out of the question-and really, I don't particularly care much if Carson and the otehr two dogs do not ever get along. Just Sheba and every other dog out there lol.

I never go to the dog park if there happens to actually be someone else there, but if I get the opportunity, I go in and work off-lead with him. There are two sides-one for large dogs and one for small at this park also so usually if someone comes up they go into the other side anyway lol. 

It would make a little sense about Sheba trying to teach him where the boundaries are at...never really considered that. I've thought it might be jealousy the way she howls and talks (if you've ever heard a Husky talk, you know what I mean) the second we look away from her and towards Carson-if she sees one of us go away towards Carson, Sheba starts whining. It gets worse if we go outside with Carson without her-which of course, we cannot take her outside with us because we are afraid they will kill each other. I've tried having them both out together on-lead at opposite ends of the yard to work on training which seems to be OK until Sheba or Carson gets distracted by the other. Then it's a contest almost to get his attention back-which hasn't been too difficult with ANY other dog. If I give him a good check on the lead he generally pays attention again, but not with Sheba. 

I have yet to find a trainer that I am comfortable with-you're right, most trainers I've run into think that because he's big and the breed is "mean" -they have to be rough with him, which inevitably has turned into him urinating on the floor, cowering, or trying to scurry away as fast and low to the ground as he can. He's been hit before by his previous owners, I'm almost sure of it-why else would he have done that? So Petsmart and Petco and this other place are all out because of that. He's been doing great (better than I expected him to) with training just at home and he picks up things pretty fast-I don't even have to use treats lol -his ball is his most treasured toy and that has been my tool with him for everything. 

Neutering him is going to happen. That's not even debatable at all-it just now depends on when the clinic here gets their heads out of their butts and get back to business. They've been closed for a good bit with no notice to anyone, no idea when they will start taking appointments again, nothing. My vet wants to charge $300 something just to have his nads cut off and I won't do it. I've looked around at other vets and I'm getting about the same pricing from everyone just about...it is absolutely absurd that it should cost that much at all. So we are waiting on that...

J-I know what you mean about the kids with the big dog and apt thing, I've seen it here too.


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