# Please help with introducing/convincing for a GSD



## RoadToGSD (Dec 23, 2019)

Hi,
Thanks everyone for all the helpful tips and support you provide. It was visible on the threads I read, which made me join this forum.

One of my dreams/wishes is to have a GSD in our family. I have had experience with Doberman and Boxer. Our last dog, boxer, was my wife’s first ever dog. Needless to say she was overwhelmed with his high energy. We were just starting our family when we got him, so lack of training and experience left some gaps.

Lost him last year at 9 years. We have a 6yr old and 1.5 yr old in the house. Unfortunately, because of his high energy, always wanting to jump/lick, strength, my wife and daughter were not comfortable to play, go for walks (pulling), or train him. Blame is on us. More on me because I didn’t educate my wife on dog ownership, especially a boxer, which has left a bad taste.

However, I feel a GSD is still a good choice with where we are now, expecting a lot of dedication, as well as importance of a good breeder, who knows their dogs’ temperament.

Our plan is to get a new dog in a year. She wants a small dog like Havanese, Shih Tzu, or Bichon Frise, so she can play with him, handle/train him, and they shed very little, which is another challenge.

I am going to convince her to at least visit some breeders, interact with GSDs that have been well trained and have good temperament to help reduce her overwhelm and fear. Shedding will be a tough one. Not sure if my offer to vacuum often is good enough 

Granted I will need to commit to her that I will take complete responsibility of GSDs training and cleaning.

What tips do you have, especially women in this group who have a GSD, or first ever GSD, to help me convince her?

PS. Appreciate you reading my long post. It was needed to give you good background.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

You may not lIKE my response But I agree with your wife. I can relate to her concerns and given the ages of your children, a Bichon would be a much better choice.
I had 2 twinsy Bichons at one time prior to having GSD's. They are great little dogs for all the reasons your wife wants one.
A GSD. on the other hand is a BIG, strong, can knock little ones down, rough type dog. It takes commitment and lots
of time to manner them and keep them happy with their exercise needs. Each one is different but shedding is a problem
to many housekeepers.
I think your next family dog should be a small, manageable by your wife and kids and then after that and your children
are larger, maybe a GSD. For now, pay attention to your kids- they need you more than YOU need a GSD.


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## JulBoh (Jun 11, 2019)

I second Orphan Heidi's response. I got my first GSD 6 + months ago and WOW she's a handful and I've raised larger puppies before! Luckily my kids are much older 19 and 16. If I was any older I'd worry about my OWN physical health with this one! She is a lover but it's very difficult to have younger children over; she wants to play but is too big and rough.


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

Could also try a medium-sized dog. Small enough for the wife to train and handle, large enough to do some "big dog" stuff. Since unfocused energy was an issue previously, look for a dog that's naturally biddable (wants to do whatever you want it to do) or has less energy overall.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Don't let the foo-foo looks of a Bichon fool you. They think they're big dogs and want to do all the big dog things. I used to hike and explore the woods with them and they joined right in wanting to rough house with the big neighborhood dogs.
They're not just Lap dogs. Mine used to pull me around a big lake on sidewalks while I was on street roller skates.
mine learned to fetch in the big lake. They're very smart and learn all kinds of tricks very easily. They even did a form of dock diving and were great swimmers. They can be as athletic as their owners. Plus a big fact is they get along with ALL people and ALL dogs. Not so with many GSD's.


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## Elisabeth Ann Parent (Dec 1, 2016)

I think both partners need to be on the same page. Especially for a dog who requires both parties to be involved in their care and training (if you think this can be done by one person in the house then you need to do more research on the breed).

Why not visit some other breeds that fit what you both like? Then work together in bringing the right type of dog into your home. Together.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

I kind of agree with everyone. I don't think a GSD is the right dog for you at this time. You have 2 young children and a reluctant wife....not a good combo for raising a GSD. And if you think a boxer was a lot of energy, a GSD won't be much different, if not worse. GSD puppies bite a lot. Are you prepared for that when it bites your 1.5yo and draws blood? When a GSD is grown up, it needs a lot of attention, exercise, training, etc. With 2 young kids, are you going to have the time to do that? Remember, GSDs are herding group dogs. Herding group dogs can work all day.

I assume you work, and your wife is at home alone with a 6yo and a 1.5 yo. And now you want to add a GSD puppy? I may be wrong, but I don't think your wife will be happy with the additional work in the house. Don't forget, GSDs shed A LOT. Your wife will have to do extra cleaning. I just see a wife that is going to resent you because you wanted the GSD and she didn't. Get the Havanese or any of the smaller dogs. They're easier to handle and manage than a larger, more powerful breed like a GSD. "Happy wife, happy life." Get the dog that SHE wants.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

The one other thought I had was...for GSD, perhaps you could come across a nicely bred WGSL bitch who is being retired from a breeding program. From a reputable breeder who perhaps knows how she is with kids? Or a male, just seems like female more likely to be retired

You might be able to score a really nice adult dog who might be gentle enough with the family as an adult so as not to overly stress the wife.

Finding this gem is probably somewhat unlikely and barring coming across a lovely second hand adult I'm inclined to agree with everyone else that the wife having to deal with an unruly shepherd puppy that she does not want plus two kids one who is 1.5 y/o....is not likely to end well.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Other breeds to consider would be cavalier king charles spaniel and papillon.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Oh, gosh... where do I start?
GSDs are super difficult to raise. If everyone is not aware of what they are getting into, heart and soul dedicated, and OK with what is involved in training and dedicating a lot of time and effort, both emotional and physical, into dealing with this dog, then you are looking at problems. Not only problems with the dog, but problems with the wife, who will be frustrated and will resent being pushed into this.
I will explain more later, when I have more time.


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## RoadToGSD (Dec 23, 2019)

I don’t know where to start to thank everyone. You all have undoubtedly helped me not to repeat my mistake again.

I didn’t feel right is now is the right time to bring a GSD for sure, but was hoping next year may be ok. WellI’ll be more patient?

Me and my wife both work. Both can work from home 2-3 days a week. Little one stays home with grandma (not into pets but grew to like our boxer just like my wife).

*Few Questions *
1. When would be a good time to bring the GSD? Like when little one is 5 or 10? We’ll be in our mid to late 40s ?‍♂
2. If I want to start educating my wife now, what are some ways I can do? Making her read books/blogs probably won’t be sustainable.

I was thinking of adopting at first but after reading the temperament issues of available dogs at our local GSD rescue I backed off.

I like @Thecowboysgirl suggestion of a retiring GSD from a breeding program.

More importantly look into smaller to medium size breeds.

Thanks you @Orphan Heidi, @JulBoh, @Kyrielle, @Elisabeth Ann Parent, @tc68, @Thecowboysgirl, and @Sunflowers for taking time off your busy days and sharing your candid, straight up recommendations instead of what I wanted to hear ??

Now I just need to make sure my wife doesn't see this post j/k ?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I agree that both partners need to be on the same page. You'll have to do your own marriage counseling  Having said that...there is no comparison between a GSD and a Boxer. We've had 3 Boxers , 3 GSDs, a Doberman and a Collie. I'll take the GSD and the Collie any. day. Any dog you get will need training, including little dogs, and that's on you. So you can take her to meet well trained dogs but those dogs have had months and years of training.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

I tend to agree with the others. I work long days. Sometimes 12-16hrs. I have a 6mo puppy. Although my girlfriend is home with her during the day, I still have to come home and work her. Every single day. Even if it’s just tossing the ball around in the back yard. They tend to need mental and physical stimulation so there’s always a little touch of some kind of training. The dog doesn’t care that you’re tired or hungry. I feel it’s only right to let them work. They love to work but they also love to be with the family. I do have a breed recommendation for a medium sized dog that can be relaxed if you get the right pup. Pm me if you want it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

My opinion is, love and honour your wife, and get a little dog. With a toddler in your house, let the dog ownership decision be your wife's, she has a full enough life raising 2 young children.

My husband has been working inter state for the last 2 1/2 years and has finally landed a job back home. After being away for so long, he has a different perspective than mine on our family life. This morning he summed up what owning a german shepherd is like in our family, 'mess and stress'. My husband enjoys and likes Nitro. Don't misunderstand where I'm coming from, my dog is trained, well behaved, happy, a pleasure to have around, and loved. But, he is a lot of work. 

My life rhythm is based around the dog. It's summer here, hot and humid. That means getting up before sunrise to exercise him before it get's too hot. Our home decor style is "Canine Eclectic". Dog toys, dog crate, dog mats, and bowls in our home.(Clutter). Our side yard where we play frisbee was nicely grassed, now its a dust bowl from a 100lb dog chasing a frisbee. We're thinking of how to landscape it so it's attractive but still dog friendly, an expense we wouldn't have if he was a little dog. The amount of time I spend interacting with him through the day, which I enjoy, is considerable. 

When our kids were little, we looked after adult guide dogs in training that needed a break from training. After that we fostered dogs through the local shelter. We would have puppies for a couple of weeks, adult dogs for a longer period, then they'd go back to the shelter. We had our 'dog fix' without what would have been back then, the burden of dog ownership. We got our first german shepherd when our youngest child was 6 years old, and she was my dog.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Dunkirk said:


> "Canine Eclectic".


This phrase!


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## RoadToGSD (Dec 23, 2019)

There’s no two minds about having my wife’s willingness and her feeling to get a GSD. Not going to repeat my mistake 

I wasn’t sure if next year would a good time or not. Based on everyone’s responses it would be better to wait till our youngest is 5-6yrs.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

In the meantime, once your kids are a little older, you can start taking some fun obedience classes. Even smaller dogs can learn to do some nice positional heeling and some cool tricks. Once the kids discover how much fun it is to work with their dogs as a team, it will bring you one step closer. Some of the skills your family can pick up from training your calmer dog can serve them well when you eventually get your GSD.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

You can take your kids to watch agility trials. Spectators are welcome, there’s no admission or anything. Agility is fast-paced, colorful, and loud enough enough that it doesn’t tend to bore kids like obedience trials. 

Agility is a great way to blow up stereotypes about “little dogs” being dumb little lap warmers. You’ll see some awesome, well trained little athletes in the 8” class (and all classes, really). People in agility usually LOVE stalking about their dogs, so if you see a dog that you adore, ask the handler after their run. You’ll probably get an earful, and often a chance to meet the dogs (after their runs are done). It’s a friendly venue, and attending might give you some local breeders or rescue organizations to keep in mind for the future.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

How about a beagle for a 'starter dog'? They are reasonable size, don't shed much and follow the kids around like they are one of them. Any dog is a good watch dog. Beagles are good natured, mellow dogs and easy to care for, all qualities that make them good family dogs. We had one when the kids were little and they are great 'kid dogs'. It would be unfair to both your wife and the dog to put them in a situation where your wife feels burdened by the care of the dog. My mother hated the GS my dad brought home when I was a baby. She couldn't walk him, he bit almost every kid in the neighborhood ("Don't tease the dog!), he bit her, and she had to clean up after him. She also resented that the dog was smarter than she was. GS's are not for everyone. And don't hesitate to take home a shelter dog, there are plenty of nice dogs there that were simply unwanted for whatever reason. People bring home cute little 10 pound fur balls that quickly grow to 90 lbs of long hair shedding everywhere who think they are still lap dogs chewing up everything in sight then I have to adopt them, teach them the bed is MINE and the couch is verboten,Duke. It would be smart to wait until the kids are big enough and you have the time to spend with the dog. Labs are good family dogs, too. And we did consider a Great Pyrenees who was a big, silly, herding dog that loved people. He just didn't like Elke, the resident girl dog. Maybe take the family and visit the shelter and see who clicks with the kids?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

There are any number of mid sized, man approved, kid friendly dogs.
Bull Terriers are one of my favorite dogs, and generally great with children. Might be appealing to your wife. A lot of small dogs are not great with small children and easily injured by affectionate toddlers. Bear that in mind.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> There are any number of mid sized, man approved, kid friendly dogs.
> Bull Terriers are one of my favorite dogs, and generally great with children. Might be appealing to your wife. A lot of small dogs are not great with small children and easily injured by affectionate toddlers. Bear that in mind.


My cousin has a bull terrier that is hilarious. Sweet, fun, sturdy dog.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I like the beagle as an all around good family dog suggestion... but if you’re looking for something that’s more of a gsd-esque compromise, I’d look at corgis or border terriers.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Terriers are notorious for dog and animal aggression. If you have visions of your family playing in an unfenced area with the dog, or your children walking their dog or even your wife trying to take the kids and dog for a walk, I would think twice about a terrier.


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

First off welcome to the forum, even if you do not end up with a GSD! Undoubtedly I understand where you are coming from. GSDs are impressive, aesthetically pleasing, wonderful dogs. But they are not for everyone, and not what I would consider easy. I'm 30, have had dogs my entire life, and my two require daily work. I don't have kids by choice and my dogs sort of fill that void, I can't imagine having to take care of children AND them too and do right by all parties. You do not have to have a small dog to have a more low key, easier type to manage. Bernese Mountain dogs or Newfoundlands come to mind. I have a registered APBT whom is a wonderful, wonderful dog... she matches your energy. She can (could, she's now 11) go all day or snuggle with you on the couch and happy as a clam either which way. I can also take her anywhere, do anything, and she never bats an eye. An incredible athlete in her prime, never one to back down, and still gentle as ever with the little ones. The key is getting a true APBT and not a bully mutt with unknown, often sketchy backgrounds from other mixed in breeds. Not that those can't also be great dogs but its more of a roll of the dice when you adopt a shelter dog.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

With some of the breeds I see being suggested here, I am going to advise that you go with the German Shepherd that you want. It is a far safer and family friendly breed than some of the smaller breeds being suggested. 

This is an all breed, dangerous dog website with a lot of good information, your family comes first:









2019 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - DogsBite.org


2019 U.S. dog bite fatality statistical data collected and recorded by DogsBite.org. Source citations for each fatality victim are located in Fatality Citations.




www.dogsbite.org


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

I understand everyone’s position posted already and many of them are completely legitimate. So I will add mine. 

I am a stay at home mom who homeschools two kids, ages five and seven. I’ve had dogs my whole life but never a GSD until recently. I currently have a four month old working line male GSD. He’s my right hand and is learning very quickly to be a velcro dog. He’s loyal, focused and very hardworking. He’s the perfect sidekick I wanted. 

He absolutely adores my kids. They are his buddies. If they want to lay on the couch, he’ll do it. If they want to play ball or tug, he’s totally ready. I have a boy with endless energy and my GSD matches that whenever asked. If they play in the street, he’s watching and eagerly waiting their return. My kids have no doubt how important they are to him. In those areas of devoted family dog, he’s exactly what I expected with the GSD name. 

This behavior that he exhibits takes a lot of work. We train at least 3 - 4 sessions a day for competitive work. He’s incorporated in our school days heavily with lengthy place commands among other things. We socialize outside the home regularly. I work on his bond with the kids every day. It’s taken a very watchful eye, ready to act to get him at the appropriate level with my kids. There seems to be many challenges that are ready to snowball into bad habits if not redirected properly and quickly. A GSD puppy is a lot of work that I’m not sure I could handle in addition to kids if I wasn’t home with them all day. Our whole household is behind our goals with our GSD and we’ve all put a ton of effort into our goals. My husband is very important to our success, we would not be where we are without his support and aid. 

So far, I wouldn’t call a GSD an easy family dog, but they are a great family dog.


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## goneridin2 (Aug 6, 2019)

Wow! I have to weigh in here as many, if not all, of the breeds recommended CAN BE just as nippy and high energy as the GSD that you have been warned off of. I have owned and LOVED the GSD breed since I was first introduced as a 15 yo girl (~50 yrs). As with any other species and/or breed, there are a myriad of personalities one can have. Finding the ‘right’ personality and, just as importantly, the right BREEDER is the key. There are as many ‘family unsuitable‘ Beagles, Bichons, **** Zus, Labs, Goldens, Boxers, Arabians, Quarter Horses, Paints, etc as there are unsuitable GSD. At one juncture in my life I co-owned a training kennel and I can tell you stories (good and bad) about most breeds. My present pup (8 mos) is a high drive, high energy pup. While he was selected for those traits, I would never recommend his personality for a household with small children. During our search for a high-drive/high-energy pup we passed over MANY pups that were better suited as family dogs and less suitable for the working dog that I was looking for. Be aware that some breeders have learned the ’personality test’ for determining puppy disposition. They begin training their pups at an early age to ‘pass the test’ and thereby skew the results. There are other behaviors you can look for, ie their pack behaviors.

Regardless of the breed you choose (& they are all good breeds) you need to be vigilant and DO YOUR RESEARCH!!! There are websites that will tell you the known genetic illnesses to which each breed is predisposed to. Find an honest breeder. Then, ask to SEE copies of both parents’ DNA, PennHIP, OFA, etc test results for those diseases, etc). Remember to VERIFY, VERIFY, VERIFY!

(My current pup first showed signs of hip dysplasia at an unprecedented 3 months old! In the most recent 3-4 months he went from ‘good’ hips on radiographs to SEVERE hip dysplasia.We are presently waiting to hear at what age he will have the best success with a full hip replacement!)

Two final thoughts, I would consider working with a skilled trainer to both select a puppy and get your puppy properly socialized and trained. (Soapbox: It doesn’t sound like it needs saying in your case, however...remember that the puppy deserves the same respect from your children as they deserve from the puppy. If not treated properly ANY animal - even ones with the most gentle personality - can become defensive and reactive. They are not toys.)
Good luck in your search!


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

Most of the breeds listed under that site are mixed... 

A good dog is never the wrong breed and they exist in all, same as bad. Diligent research will pay off.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Breed is highly indicative of what is the right breed for any given family. Written breed standards are a good starting point to research the genetics of behavior / history and expected behavior of any breed.

What is more important than problem dogs being possibly mixed breed is the one breed that is almost always in the mix.


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

And what is this one particularly problematic breed that seemingly taints all others? Surely we should know, so we can avoid eminent disaster if anyone were to consider it as a potential family member.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I posted the stats. Feel free to do your own due diligence and form your own opinion.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

atomic said:


> And what is this one particularly problematic breed that seemingly taints all others? Surely we should know, so we can avoid eminent disaster if anyone were to consider it as a potential family member.


I can’t go into detail here but that breed is a terrible choice for families and for young children. I’m sure you know what is being talked about since there is one breed we can’t discuss here. I don’t see any point in lashing out about it. It is what it is. I have a horror story I can share in all the gory details if you want to message me, but I can’t post it on the forum.

The family should get the dog they want. Personally, I would get another dog now and a GSD when the children are school age. That is what I did and it worked out well. Work with a trainer on any dog you get, and make sure it’s used to other dogs so you can bring another one in later if you decide to do that. Or get a GSD with a very stable temperament from a good breeder and work with a trainer. With young children I would always work with a very strong private trainer. Please be very careful of any mixed breed rescues or puppies. People aren’t always honest about breeds.


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

I am aware what is being insinuated, and I could not disagree more. It is the sole reason I left this forum years ago, I returned because I chose to overlook adversity in return for otherwise appreciated information concerning the GSD breed. I digress. OP, even if you do not end up with a GSD at this time there are still helpful threads about raising and training dogs in general, and most are willing to offer a helping hand if asked. Best of luck to you and yours!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I don't think people are aware of what is being insinuated. When choosing a breed for a young family, there are a lot of things to consider. One of those things is what are an individual breed's track record with young children. Choices need to be made with the health and welfare of the children as a priority. Recommending a breed(s) that is high risk to a child over the many much safer breeds is unfathomable especially when ALL other breeds, including GSDs, are low risk in comparison to those at the highest end of the risk spectrum. Besides, this is a GSD forum. Why misrepresent our breed as not suitable for a young family while ignoring the risks presented by others? That doesn't make sense.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

RoadToGSD said:


> I don’t know where to start to thank everyone. You all have undoubtedly helped me not to repeat my mistake again.
> 
> I didn’t feel right is now is the right time to bring a GSD for sure, but was hoping next year may be ok. WellI’ll be more patient?
> 
> ...


Just for a little different perspective, we have German Shepherds because I wanted German Shepherds. They aren't my wife or kids first choice. So for the most part, they're my dogs. They're fine with my family, they both love my wife and daughter especially, but if what you really want is a dog thats really closely bonded with your family, you really want to look into what they want. I know that may sound a little contradictory, but after a few dogs and a few years, you'll see the difference between that "love" and really being a part of their lives. Does that make sense?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

*Let's not start down this path folks.Every breed has it's health issues and temperament variations.Let it go.*


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Doxies and Chi's have some of the highest overall bites. Small dogs I don't generally like around small children because of the risk of injury to the dogs. Toy breed pups are very vulnerable to a falling toddler for example. 
I have for years recommended Bull Terriers, or mini bulls as family pets. They overall are fabulous with children and sturdy enough to be safe. Any dog needs training. All dogs of all breeds need training. 
I have always maintained that a good GSD is a perfect dog for anyone. That will never change. When someone is adamant that they are not sold on that, as the ops wife, I recommend other options. Because the Bull Terriers are not common or popular, getting a good one is easier. I have seen no widespread temperament issues in the breed, far less issues the the breed we all love. 
To make a statement like all Terriers are prey monsters is ridiculous. My Wheatons weren't, my Yorkie played with a Guinea pig for years, my Staffie was afraid of the cat.
On that note, a well bred Yorkie is an awesome dog, impossible to find but awesome.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Perhaps you should argue the point with the AKC.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Echoing dogma13, enough!


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

Excuse my bluntness, but GSD: not for you. Believe me, it took just about all I could manage to get Mom in tune with a puppy. The only reason she likes him now is because he got sick and she felt pity for him. But she didn't have any terrible experiences either, so I'm thinking you definitely stick with a small, easy to deal with dog. 
Maybe a Maltese, Shih Tzu, Lhasa Apso? Those do have hair though, so you'd have to trim it. I know a couple little dogs who are really well behaved and friendly, but I can't think of the name at the minute. I'll tell you later.


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

Kathrynil said:


> Excuse my bluntness, but GSD: not for you. Believe me, it took just about all I could manage to get Mom in tune with a puppy. The only reason she likes him now is because he got sick and she felt pity for him. But she didn't have any terrible experiences either, so I'm thinking you definitely stick with a small, easy to deal with dog.
> Maybe a Maltese, Shih Tzu, Lhasa Apso? Those do have hair though, so you'd have to trim it. I know a couple little dogs who are really well behaved and friendly, but I can't think of the name at the minute. I'll tell you later.


@RoadToGSD


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

The dogs I know are Shih tzu. They are super friendly and well behaved. You might like them.


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## James Blackmar (Oct 19, 2019)

I have a 1.5, 3, and 9 year old and 3 cats. My 6 month old GSD plows through them when she gets excited. She loves chewing on them, she has never drawn blood on anyone though. My 1 year old loves sticking his hand in her mouth for her to chew and climbing on the dog. He is a rugged kid. She is curious about the cats and will go face to face with them until they bat her in the face a few times then they run and she gives chase knocking stuff over. The dog really was kind of an impulsive purchase i just came home with her and didn't give anyone the chance to object. I don't have any regrets thought, everyone loves her and she is super attached to me and loves sleeping on me at night. She gets our family out for walks which we never really did before and she comes with me to go work out in the woods. You simply have to be ready to take responsibility for your actions and if you decide to get one she is part of the family, end of story. No spca when she rips up your wife's favorite rug or becomes a handful.


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