# Isla just started her 3rd heat, considering breeding.



## Neenjah (Oct 14, 2009)

Isla, my 18 month GSD just starting her 3rd heat today and I am considering breeding her. I have several questions and things I need to address, so what better place to ask?

First off, I dont know if I have breeding rights through the AKC?? Can I purchase that as needed? I have several friends and family who would like a pup out of her and believe she posses many desirable attributes so I have no problem with breeding her, is she still to young? would you recommend waiting longer? For the remainder of the pups that are not spoken for what would be a reasonable price? I have her pedigre if anyone would like to take a look at it?

Thanks in advance!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

The first thing you'll want to do is wait until she's at least two years old so you can get her hips certified. A GSD without hip certifications shouldn't ever be bred, there are just too many hip problems with this breed.

Unfortunately, there are really too many "pet quality" GSDs being bred in this country, to the point that the shelters are killing the excess. "Pet Quality" dogs don't really need to be bred. Why don't you post her pedigree and we'll see if there's anything in there that would make her more worthy of passing on her genes to the next generation?


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## Neenjah (Oct 14, 2009)

excuse my lack of scanner and primitive technique.. but here you go


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

We all LOOOOOOVE our first dogs:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/introductions-welcome-mat/121029-hello-arkansas.html

Think they are the best thing since sliced bread (why that is so great I am not sure). 

Have tons of friends and family who also think the same. 

Who may or may not really want a dog, but love the idea of a dog. 

You being in Arkansas are in an area where there are tons of dogs dropped and killed in places like Little Rock Animal Services. 

People who breed have and hold themselves to high standards. If you are really interested, find a true breeder mentor, get your dog out and doing things that prove that she is breedworthy, do the hips, elbows, x-ray her back, do CERF eyes, check her thyroid, heart, and then foster a litter for rescue, get an idea of what is involved there...

People who produce puppies, do just that. You don't want to be one of those, you really don't!


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Remember that reputable breeders committ to their puppies for life...meaning..if ever a buyer cannot keep a dog they purchased from you...for whatever reason...throughout the life of the dog...you should be committed to taking that dog back. That should also be stated in the contract. That is a HUGE committment.


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## BOHICA Bay (Jan 26, 2011)

What, specifically, is it about your dog that makes you believe she is going to make a positive contribution to the GSD breed?


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## Neenjah (Oct 14, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> We all LOOOOOOVE our first dogs:
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/introductions-welcome-mat/121029-hello-arkansas.html
> 
> Think they are the best thing since sliced bread (why that is so great I am not sure).
> ...



I live in southwest missouri now, but i understand what your saying. And I can already tell I will be skipping this heat and waiting till shes old enough to get all of those milestones (tests, x-rays) out of the way to make sure she's worthy.


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## Neenjah (Oct 14, 2009)

BOHICA Bay said:


> What, specifically, is it about your dog that makes you believe she is going to make a positive contribution to the GSD breed?


I saw her parents and her breeder and she was not bred for size by any means and Iv ready that the oversized GSD's typically have the health problems.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Your dog's paternal grandsire:
VA Commander von der Mäusespitz - German shepherd dog

Paternal Grand-dam:
Celeste Von Bisschofsheim - German shepherd dog

I wasn't able to find anything at all on the dam's (mom's) side.

Your girl appears to be a mixture of German Show lines and American pet lines. 

She is probably a fabulous dog, but not a dog that really needs to be bred for a couple of reasons:

Neither her dad nor any of the dogs on her mom's side have any hip certifications. I looked on the OFA database site and they're not there. A dog with generations of un-tested parents behind them really shouldn't be bred. Even if your dog has good hips, there's a strong chance that they'll pass on hip problems to the next geneation.

It appears that none of her ancestors besides her grandsire have had any breed-related tests or competitions to prove their temperament. Again, your dog might have fabulous temperament but with generations of un-tested dogs behind her, the chances of her passing on some recessive temperament problems are very strong.

The GSD is not a rare breed. You can find GSD puppies in any newspaper or Craigslist for $200. Because of this, it's a breed that's riddled with structural and temperament issues. Your dog might be wonderful, but the chances that she has some recessive structural or temperamental problems that she can pass on to her offspring are very high. 

I would encourage you to love your dog, get into a hobby with her like obedience, schutzhund, or agility, but not breed her.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Another thing that you can do is contact a rescue or shelter in your area and volunteer to foster a pregnant mom or a newborn litter. Dealing with canine pregnancy and delivery and helping to screen for homes will let you know really quick if you're cut out for this whole breeding thing.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Please do not breed your dog, there are already way too many animals dying in shelters everyday because people "wanted a puppy from their dog" or they wanted to make a quick buck or their unaltered animal got out and bred with another dog or strays that keep reproducing. So please go take a look at your local animal shelter, more than half of those dogs in there will not be making it back out. 

If more people were responsible then we wouldn't have so many animals dying every single day in shelters. 

Breeding should be left to reputable Breeders, people that are looking to better the breed, people looking to breed healthier GSD's and GSD's that have great temperment and the ability to preform any task that their owner gives to them. 


You have to look at the big picture, if you bring 10 puppies into the world when you breed your GSD and 2 of those puppies get bred and they have 10 puppies and 2 of those puppies get bred and they have 10 puppies each, in a matter of about 5-10 years *YOU* brought 50 more puppies into this world when there are already puppies dying in shelters everyday because there are not enough homes for them all.
Your puppies will have puppies, and those puppies will have puppies........ the cycle will continue.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

There are thousands of great GSD's out there. I own some (and would never breed them), if you've had chance to check out the Urgent and Rescue section there are also many great ones in there needing homes.....

That said, if you have educated yourself and are in the position to become a 'responsible' breeder then those are the breeders I respect and get my puppies from. To figure out if you fit in that category just go to http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html and read up on all the links... 

Good luck


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Side note, its easier to use pedigree database


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

If you have a chance, please read the first chapter or so of The Art of Raising a Puppy by the Monks of New Skete. They give a very detailed description of what happens to a dog during labor and delivery, and all of the handling the pups receive. If you have never seen a dog give birth, please take the time to read it. It was very eye-opening to me. 

I would not breed your dog, if I were you. What if she has 15 puppies? How will you find good homes for them all? What if a dog ever needs to be returned to you? What would you do if one of the pups ended up with dysplasia or mega-e? What if she has a horrible time with delivery? These are all "what ifs" that can and do happen. If your family and friends like your dog, then they can do the research and find a reputable breeder who knows exactly what they are doing to end up with a great dog. I own a dog that I bought from a person, a trainer, in fact, that I trusted. I didn't do a lot of research because I thought that he (the breeder) knew what he was doing. I was wrong. I now have a very fear-aggressive dog who will need advanced obedience and very careful monitoring for the rest of his life. Did the breed plan on breeding a dog with this issues? I don't think so. But his lack of knowledge has caused me, and several other owners of his puppies, considerable heartache. Are you prepared to handle that? 

Just my $.02.


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## BOHICA Bay (Jan 26, 2011)

Minnieski said:


> If you have a chance, please read the first chapter or so of The Art of Raising a Puppy by the Monks of New Skete.


Just had to say I thoroughly enjoyed this book when I read it.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

1. As said before - 18 months is too young to breed a female.

2. Before breeding, your female should have at least minimal health clearances of OFA hips and elbows.

3. Looking at her pedigree, she has West German showlines top (father) and non-descript AKC "pet" type pedigree on bottom (mother)

4. To find a GOOD male as the father, they will REQUIRE the health clearances.

5. To sell puppies for any type of decent price, buyers want guarantees, and to see proof of value of the parents - and titles are what brings better prices.

6. The direct costs of raising a litter are not cheap....not only are there vet bills for sure for pups, but possibly big vet bills for mom during pregnancy and whelping...and a risk of losing mom and/or pups. (see the thread started by Selzer under "so you want to be a breeder") And what if you have a sick puppy??? Vet costs can easily run a few hundred to a thousand even if you opt to put down a sick pup....

7. Economics - feeding pups - the way I do it, can cost you upwards of $10 a day....I use yogurt, cottage cheese, baby cereal, goats milk, raw turkey, K9 Puppy Gold....

8. Economics - Indirect costs - Then add in the costs of extra electricity to keep the whelping area warm, water (and heating the water) for all the laundry, the laundry products - my cost of utilities increases about $200-250 for the period I have a litter...so add up all these indirect costs over and above the expected veterinary costs and see if selling a litter of $300 pups (what you can realistically expect from your female if you do nothing to show her breedworthiness) and a male of the same ilk.

9. Time - you will put in hours every day cleaning up after a healthy litter - and lots more hours if you have any problems....you will average less per hour than if you were working at McDonalds for the same number of hours in all likelihood.

Every one else has already covered WHY you should not just go ahead and breed....the breedworthiness and overpopulation of "BY" bred pups....so I won't do add my comments - just that I agree.

Lee


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Looking at that pedigree I have to say (and sorry this is OT), but what a blast from the past when I saw Kimbo way back there,,many years ago I considered a puppy out of him, he was a gorgeous dog.

Back on topic, you've gotten alot of wonderful advice here, and to learn /read more, i suggest you also read Selzer's post "so you want to be a breeder?" and see if you would be willing to possibly go thru that experience.


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