# Crate Training: Crate or No Crate?



## Vukodlak (Dec 5, 2020)

Hi everyone,

Thought I'd kick off my very first post with a crate training topic:

So, I will be bringing home my new boy end of next week. Solid black, working lines, beautiful parents with great temperaments.... I'm in love. It's been many years since I've had a puppy (not since I was still living at home), but I've had German Shepherds in my life for over 20 years. Anyhow, my husband and I are having a disagreement over crate training. He views it as "locking the dog away" while I see it as the dog's den. Somewhere he can chill out, especially when I can't watch him like a hawk. Also highly practical for potty training and just teaching the dog that's it's ok for him to be alone for a bit. I wouldn't dream of leaving him in his crate for hours upon hours! He's my dog, so he'll be with me throughout the day! But hubby is just really uneasy about the crate. Says he won't be able to handle the enevitable crying stage... and I can understand that. But he's putting up so much resistance to the idea of a crate that I feel like I have to relent and go the "no crate" route. More convenient for him since it eases his conscience, but ultimately harder on me as the primary caretaker and trainer. We came to the mutual agreement months ago that I'm getting the dog for myself and thus he is 100% my responsibility, but it's just funny to me that the crate is the only thing we've butted heads on over this. He's had a dog, but over 20 years ago, and he had never even heard of the concept of a crate before.
So, I don't know.... crate or no crate?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

crate.
you stated the reasons yourself - primary caretaker, trainer, 100% responsible... so you get to choose how you want to train and what’s the most practical for you.
the crying period is short lived... tell your husband to leave for the weekend, lol.
i’ve had dogs that i’ve crate trained, dogs that i haven’t and dogs that i should have.
there’s not a right or wrong answer really... that said, i’m a strong believer that regardless of if/when/how it’s used - all dogs should be able to tolerate and settle in a crate (travel, vet, groomer, boarding, training/sport events, etc).


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## Biscuit (Mar 24, 2020)

IMO crate. What Fodder said.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Crate. It's actually going to be way more convenient for him than he realizes. Who's going to watch the puppy when you can't? You can pop him in the crate while you take a shower, or when you and hubby are cooking and eating meals or doing chores around the house. In his crate he can't chew your furniture or pee on the rug. He doesn't need to be in there for long periods of time if you're home and can watch him ("watch" meaning eyes on 100% of the time), but there are going to be times when you can't do that. Is he willing to pick up the slack? My hubby's idea of watching the puppy varied quite a bit from mine - just being in the same room with your attention focused elsewhere does not count!

Once he gets used to his crate, the crying will stop. If you put it right next to the bed at night he should settle in and sleep. It may take a few days or weeks before he's sleeping through the night, and in the meantime he'll wake you up if he needs to go outside. When we've put puppies away in their crate during the day while we're home, I always had them in another room and I'd cover it and close the door. Put the radio on low. If he sees and hears you and knows you're home he's more likely to fuss because he wants to be with you than if he thinks nobody's home. You can feed him his meals in the crate to create positive associations, and occasionally seed it with a yummy treat for him to discover.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

No way I’d keep a working line puppy inside without a crate. I wouldn’t keep any dog without being crate trained.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Bearshandler said:


> No way I’d keep a working line puppy inside without a crate. I wouldn’t keep any dog without being crate trained.


Agree. Didn’t crate train our lab - house trashed. Crate trained GSD - felt was way to go and will always do so going forward. Worked for us.

edit - he was a chewer but once teething ended, so did chewing. But damage was done.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Absolutely crate train.

My shepherd tore his CCL and had to go in for surgery. I dropped him off at the vet at 8AM. I didn’t pick him up again until 4PM. He was crated up until and after the surgery. I took him home (in a crate in the car) and he had to be crated at all times except for potty breaks to recover from surgery. Can you imagine how unbearably stressful this would have been for everyone if he wasn’t used to being crated? And this is just one example of why it’s necessary for every dog to be trained to accept it.


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## Vukodlak (Dec 5, 2020)

Thanks everyone so far! Yeah, deep down I totally agree that a crate is the way to go, especially with a working line dog. Unfortunately hubby will just have to get used to the idea just like puppy will. lol. I think just seeing your answers will help make my point. A crate isn't "jail" unless you make the mistake of using one for punishment. With enough positive association and patence, he'll learn to love his "den".


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## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

Crate all the way to possibly 2 years old or until he/she earns the freedom to roam around without supervision. I don't about the rest of the members here, but I cannot imagine a working line puppy without crate training.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Even though Valor is rarely in a crate, I went through training and reinforce it from time to time because he will need to settle in a crate in the future.


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## REEHGE (Feb 16, 2020)

Crating was/is an excellent choice for us, we could probably manage without the crates now but the dogs have become very accustomed to having their 'own space' and it is great to have a secure place they are fine with going to put them in a pinch. We don't let the kids or the other dog in opposite crates so they always know it is a place to go if they just want some space or to relax too. We started right from the beginning by always keeping the crates as positive of a place as possible and getting them comfortable to it at their own pace. There was some whining fits to ignore and power through but all's well in the end.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I've never used a crate per se......however , I've used ....for a short term.... an enclosed area outside with a dog house attached as well as a room in the house with nothing in it for the dog to injure itself or destroy. My current GSD had free rein of our house at 5-6 months of age. I spent a lot of time training this dog so she could gain her unrestricted liberties in the house in our absence.......and she certainly does "guard" the house.

4 dogs over my time and the 3 GSDs I've had..... all gained their free range of the house fairly quick....

To each their own.... 


SuperG


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

I think it depends on the person. Now, I have never owned a GSD (Though I will own a GSD in the future) but labs on the other hand I have a lot of experience... and well, a puppy is a puppy. We crated one the other was not crated. Neither destroyed the house, the crate trained one in his older age was better behaved but also we did more training with him. The non-crated pup only "mess" was having an accident in the house. He was confined to certain rooms and never free roam as a puppy, but regardless a crate was not used and he turned out just fine. I think it depends on how you feel with the pup because both can work.

I see you are from Canada and I have been on the search for a good WL breeder. Where did you get your pup? I'd love to hear more. If you want to DM me or if you would like me to DM you, let me know! Any help or advice is appreciated!!!


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

I'm one of those who is opposed to crating. I wouldn't crate a child or my best friend. We do put new dogs in the laundry off the kitchen. With a gate if they aren't prone to jump it, with the door closed otherwise. Some adapt to it as their space, others can't wait to get out. We introduce them to to rest of the house gradually with gates and doors. They are watch dogs so it's very important for them to have the run of the house. I can't imagine a watch dog locked in a crate being of much use. 

It makes more sense to house train the little fellow the traditional way - take him out frequently and use a combination of "NO" and rewards until he figures out what you want of him. You are also adapting your home and lifestyle to taking care of a pet, so expect you will have to make adjustments to your routine, too. 

As far a taking care of an injured animal, we did it with 140 lb Jake and no crate. Fortunately he considered the laundry his personal boudoir. He had both rear legs re-aligned one at a time. He was fine laying in there, the hardest part was taking him out, something a crate would not have affected. I've attached 2 photos of my sweetie in a cast. 

It's really a question of personal choice and I think it would be foolish for anyone here to take sides in an argument with your spouse over care of your mutual pet.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I can't imagine not crate training. And that is just to prevent destructive puppy hood and get potty training right. I also use X pens like crazy for puppies.

And when people bring me a dog to board that has never been crate trained I tend to groan. It isn't a sure thing, but when puppies learn to be confined and left, they are WAY more likely to cope with regular life experiences like boarding or going to the vet and having to be kenneled or caged at the vet before or after procedures.

I think it is one of the most important life skills. When a human puts you in a cage, it is okay, it is even good. Take a nap, someone will be back for you. 

I've gotten dogs in to board who obviously NEVER got that message and when you kennel them they go crazy trying to escape or screaming at the top of their lungs in a total panic. 

I do not believe anybody is doing their dog a favor by not crating.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Buckelke said:


> I'm one of those who is opposed to crating. I wouldn't crate a child or my best friend. We do put new dogs in the laundry off the kitchen. With a gate if they aren't prone to jump it, with the door closed otherwise. Some adapt to it as their space, others can't wait to get out. We introduce them to to rest of the house gradually with gates and doors. They are watch dogs so it's very important for them to have the run of the house. I can't imagine a watch dog locked in a crate being of much use.
> 
> It makes more sense to house train the little fellow the traditional way - take him out frequently and use a combination of "NO" and rewards until he figures out what you want of him. You are also adapting your home and lifestyle to taking care of a pet, so expect you will have to make adjustments to your routine, too.
> 
> ...



This poor dog desperately needs a diet.

As for taking a puppy out frequently and saying No and rewarding...what about when you have to leave the house? Take a shower? Sleep?


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## BlackWinterGS (Sep 13, 2020)

Crate. I was anti-crate before getting my dog and my Mum has always said “in the 70s we had dogs and no one ever put them in a crate”.

I watched some videos on why you should crate train and I absolutely cannot see how you cannot have a crate and a puppy. I’d have gotten rid of mine by now if I couldn’t put him in the crate occasionally.

I still don’t like putting him in the crate, and he only goes in there at night, if he needs to switch off or if I cannot supervise him for a
while but I don’t know how I would have coped without it.

I also messed up crate training at first so he still doesn’t love it in the same way some dogs
love their crates but he will go in and nap or just settle when I need him to.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Buckelke said:


> I'm one of those who is opposed to crating. I wouldn't crate a child or my best friend. We do put new dogs in the laundry off the kitchen. With a gate if they aren't prone to jump it, with the door closed otherwise. Some adapt to it as their space, others can't wait to get out. We introduce them to to rest of the house gradually with gates and doors. They are watch dogs so it's very important for them to have the run of the house. I can't imagine a watch dog locked in a crate being of much use.
> 
> It makes more sense to house train the little fellow the traditional way - take him out frequently and use a combination of "NO" and rewards until he figures out what you want of him. You are also adapting your home and lifestyle to taking care of a pet, so expect you will have to make adjustments to your routine, too.
> 
> ...


but you realize that some would never imagine locking their dog in the laundry room... just as some would never let a dog in the house. my neighbors GSD hasn’t left the yard in 8 or 9 years because “how’s he supposed to guard the house if i’m out walking him”. to each his own but i think it’s silly to compare it to a child - we give children their own rooms, and gasp, some ppl send their kids to the rooms.

do what makes sense for your dog and your life.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

"He views it as "locking the dog away" while I see it as the dog's den. Somewhere he can chill out, especially when I can't watch him like a hawk"

The truth is they can be both depending on the owner and how they're (mis)used.

But they're a tremendous tool and hugely beneficial to the dog, especially in house training and a place to settle/sleep with a cover/blanket over it like their own little cave. But I personally don't see the need for them after X months and all my dogs have been free range, first in the bedroom then include the hall and then entire house after 4-5 months old. No chewing, no accidents. 

+1 for crates beside the bed though.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Tell him it’s only for a short period of time. It’s so much easier to prevent problems than to fix them. Many moons ago, my Golden got into the garbage while I was in the shower as a puppy. She was always a garbage picker until the day she died. Why? She knew it was possible.

My current German Shepherd slept out of the crate at 4 months old - he was never destructive. It’s dependent on the dog. It’s also about safety. My Golden chewed the air conditioning cables as a puppy. She also ate a couch cushion. It’s a wonder she made it through puppyhood...LOL. I’m lucky none of those resulted in an expensive vet visit. 

All my dogs have LOVED their crates. My two dogs still go into their crates to nap. One is 16 years old and one is 3.5 years old. The doors to the crates are always open and they choose to go in them all the time.

Funny story, I had my current GSD in agility classes as a puppy. We had to bring crates. Only one dog was doing the course at a time. After a dog was done with their routine, we’d send them to their crates. Now mind you, these were puppies/relatively young dogs. Most owners had to corral their dogs to get them in the crate. Not me. I said crate...and my puppy took off going 240 into his crate so that the crate went flying to the back of the room and hit the back wall. The whole class backed up when I sent Dexter to his crate for every class. lolololol


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Keefer & Halo slept in their crates in our bedroom at night their entire lives. They went in on their own and waited for one of us to come over and close the door.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Uhm. 

Crate.











Cage.








I couldn’t imagine. 

Perhaps, my situation is different.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

Pro crate. 

I think of the crate as their room. Titus (my rescue) likes to hang out in his. If he feels insecure, he goes to his crate. It is his safe place. Both my dogs will go into their crate of their own volition and settle.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

It is very a personal choice for sure. But finding our lab ate parquet flooring right from the middle of the floor should have been a clue for us crate training was a good option for him. Over the past 25 years we still haven’t figured out how he did it  On a more serious note, Hunter was a counter surfer as a pup and once turned the knob on our gas stove while we were home. Luckily he only got it to the starter position and we were home so heard it clicking. I shudder to think what could have happened if he wasn’t crated while we weren’t home. I guess that happened while we were home so the crate was irrelevant but a catastrophe could have happened if we weren’t home. That cemented crate training for us.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

....


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Shadow was 9.5 when she badly injured her leg this past April. Surgery was not an option. How are exactly do you keep a dog still with out a crate. Lock it in a room? Tie it to a door? Neither of those options keep a dog resting.
A rescue needed to move 60 dogs in a natural disaster. Crates made it possible and kept all the volunteers and dogs safe.
If you never use the crate fine, but do your dog a favor and teach it to deal with being crated.
Injury, emergency or illness are all terrible times to further stress an animal. And I make it a habit to never say never.

Eta, she looks hard done by. I did not put her there she goes there to nap.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Ahhhhhh....the "great crate debate".....I personally don't see that either side is wrong....just a personal preference of the human.....both ways work and if the way you have chosen to proceed doesn't...one should investigate the other side of the fence.

SuperG


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Damicodric said:


> Uhm.
> 
> Crate.
> 
> ...


I think its the negative connotation with the word "cage" that changed the cage into a crate because the human feels better about using a crate rather than a cage for their pet. The word crate seems less harsh than a cage.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Honestly my 5 y/o still doesn't like his crate. He loves being in his kennel down stairs- it's 4'x9' and that's his idea of a "crate". To be fair he is a big boy. In our regular lives at home he doesn't get crated. If he needs to be "away" he goes down in his kennel or up to the big kennel.

Nonetheless, he has to be crated at dog shows and when we are RVing. He can open the RV of course... so he goes in his Impact crate in my truck at dog events and in the RV when we leave the dogs alone for a minute. He tolerates it, sometimes he howls in protest. Too bad, buddy. He has the best life any dog could ever hope to have. Nobody has a life, even a great life, without some small piece of it that isn't awesome. 

He loves competing, he loves going RVing with us. And he simply cannot be unsupervised in the RV loose because he can and will let himself and all the other dogs out to run free. I crate out of my truck at trials and so he has to be crated so I can leave the truck open for ventilation. He has a safer, more fun life because of small periods of confinement in a crate he doesn't love. 

My lab loves his crate. He prefers to sleep there, and when we RV he often goes into his crate of his own accord because that's "his space".


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

SuperAndre said:


> I think its the negative connotation with the word "cage" that changed the cage into a crate because the human feels better about using a crate rather than a cage for their pet. The word crate seems less harsh than a cage.


Well. Exactly.

How many dog cages would manufacturers sell versus dog crates? 

Look. To each their own. This is an old, tired topic with plenty of posts on this forum about same.

As long as all of our dogs are healthy, happy and “ready” - that’s all that counts.

To the OP.... you do you and all the best to you and your pup!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

SuperAndre said:


> I think its the negative connotation with the word "cage" that changed the cage into a crate because the human feels better about using a crate rather than a cage for their pet. The word crate seems less harsh than a cage.


No. They were travel or airline or transport crates. A crate was never a cage. In years past they were constructed of wood or wood and metal. Designed to safely contain animals of all shapes and sizes for the purposes of care, confinement or transport, to facilitate safe handling.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> No. They were travel or airline or transport crates. A crate was never a cage. In years past they were constructed of wood or wood and metal. Designed to safely contain animals of all shapes and sizes for the purposes of care, confinement or transport, to facilitate safe handling.


The cage for me reminds me of like the Zoo and seems harsher than the word crate at least to me. I was not saying crates are bad or anything... I will for sure be crate training. But I do get both sides.


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## K_Bens (Aug 17, 2020)

The crying stage is very hard, but it does stop. This is my first GSD puppy and I researched a lot before getting her. It sounds like you have too and know what you want to do already. Stick to your plan. You’ll need the confidence that this is the right thing if you’re going to get through it. It’s really hard to hear a puppy cry, but my pup was fine by the 4th night. We would give her her meals in there and taught her a “go to your place” command with lots of rewards. Definitely has to be a positive place, never for punishment. Each night the crying was a little less till she stopped completely and happily started going in her crate to nap and relax. It’s fantastic for potty training and also I found it keeps them safe at night and during moments you can’t fully watch them. I would sometimes crate her when making her meals or going for a shower or something. She hasn’t had an issue with it since the first week and I’m so glad we crate trained. GSD’s definitely need some structure, as they seem to like to test their boundaries more every day lol. Good luck and congrats on your new puppy! 

p.s. Would love to see pics! My puppy Rogue is all black working line too!


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## Scottie B (Dec 4, 2020)

We had a 1yo mixed breed gifted to us when we bought our home and we put him in the bathroom the first day everyone was out. We were at work and the kids at school for 8 hrs. He ate the door jam and lets us know he would prefer to not be confined. We decided to see what he would do not being confined. He chewed nothing and was a perfect gentleman all day!! 
Then we got a 8week GS puppy and had to get a crate. She chewed everything , shoes, table legs, rocks, candles you get the picture. Well while in the crate she chewed through the blanket, plastic pan, carpet and padding. She had to stop at the concrete. We just put in a 3/4 plywood crate floor. She stopped after her teething. She passed away too soon at 3 1/2.
We got another GS puppy and she only chewed while not supervised but loved the biscuits when she got in the create Our mixed breed passes after 3 years with this pup and we take down the create (she has a bed on the floor next to our bed, when she's not on the bed). 
We get another GS puppy a month ago and set up the crate for the new puppy. First one in? Yup, the the old lady because she's not sure of the new addition and she knows she gets biscuits when she "kennels up".







Crates are necessary to keep dogs safe from themselves. But not all dogs need them. IMHO


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

@*K_Bens
"The crying stage is very hard, but it does stop."*

Just a thought to your observation......the "crying stage" IMHO can be completely avoided. 

As stupid as this might sound to many....I slept on the floor next to the new pup in our house....maybe 3-5 nights.....big deal ...a few nights with little sleep.....but in the big picture, it was minimal effort on my behalf physically and emotionally ( I suppose ).

A young pup....a completely new environment.....isolation did not seem to me the best route to take.

Once again....to each their own


SuperG


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Scottie B said:


> Well while in the crate she chewed through the blanket, plastic pan, carpet and padding. She had to stop at the concrete. We just put in a 3/4 plywood crate floor. She stopped after her teething.


You know all of that could have been avoided with a proper dog crate right?

OP if you decide to crate train please do not use a wire one. Aside from being hazardous for pups, they actually create some determined escape artists if you get a dog that is so inclined.


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## Scottie B (Dec 4, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> You know all of that could have been avoided with a proper dog crate right?
> 
> OP if you decide to crate train please do not use a wire one. Aside from being hazardous for pups, they actually create some determined escape artists if you get a dog that is so inclined.


Interesting? What exactly could have been avoided?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Scottie B said:


> Interesting? What exactly could have been avoided?


Chewing of blanket, plastic pan, carpet and padding.


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## Scottie B (Dec 4, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> Chewing of blanket, plastic pan, carpet and padding.
> [
> Thank you for the response. How could they have been avoided? I'm new to this form and would appreciate any advice you have in crate training.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

I've also found it useful to be able to put my dogs away when we've got children visiting. Some kids are just fine, others think of the dogs as their personal toys. Crating is a great way to separate kids from dogs especially if the dogs are fed up with the ones who insist on petting them against the fur.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> This poor dog desperately needs a diet.
> 
> As for taking a puppy out frequently and saying No and rewarding...what about when you have to leave the house? Take a shower? Sleep?


careful. I find unless asked it is best not to mention a dog's weight. People can be very touchy about that. 
I am pro crate but I've also had dog's without them. As a pup you want the little rascal always in sight so that you can stop pottying as soon as they take "the position". You can stop chewing as soon as they lick that wooden table leg. Etc. Some people crate, some use an exercise pen, I tethered my pups to myself but I also used a crate. 
My dogs now have crates but seldom use them. I feed my gal-dog in hers otherwise she'd give up her meal to my big-boy. In her crate she can eat in peace. 
When my mom lived with us and she broke her leg, the dogs were put into their crates. Otherwise the paramedics would never been able to do their jobs. The wanted to protect my mom. 
And if we have to use the travel kennels in the back of our truck they are accustomed to them. If we ever want to travel by air they will have to be in a crate. Best that they learn it is a safe place. I had a little dog that wasn't crate trained and when I was moving I tried to crate her to keep her safe. She tried to chew her way out and cut her gums.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

SuperG said:


> @*K_Bens
> "The crying stage is very hard, but it does stop."*
> 
> Just a thought to your observation......the "crying stage" IMHO can be completely avoided.
> ...


I slept next to my pups when they were little and in the crate, too. So much change for them.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

@Scottie B wire crates are fine for older, trained dogs. But an actual crate prevents all the things you mentioned and prevents puppies learning that they can escape. Not to mention the hazard of getting hurt on busted wires. I used one briefly, because it was donated, and my big male made it into garbage.
Never crate a dog with a collar on. Ever. Especially a puppy and especially if you insist on using wire.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

A crate beside the bed covered with a blanket but not on the side that faces you ....puppy crying for a few minutes or a night but generally ends it pretty quickly. Sometimes just a word or a few fingers through the cage or hearing your breathing is very comforting to them. And you get sleep.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Vukodlak said:


> But hubby is just really uneasy about the crate. Says he won't be able to handle the enevitable crying stage... and I can understand that. But he's putting up so much resistance to the idea of a crate that I feel like I have to relent and go the "no crate" route.


He can't watch the puppy when he's sleeping. Ask him if he'll be able to tolerate waking up in the morning to discover his puppy chewed on the woodwork, destroyed one of his favorite shoes, peed on the carpet etc. etc. etc.  

I think all pups should be crate trained. Whether they're used for a few months or a lifetime depends on the dog but like others have said, boarding kennels, vets, groomers, dog shows etc. all require dogs to be crated. Dogs should be crated in cars too IMHO...who wants to be in a collision and have their 70lb GSD go flying through the front window?


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Another one here whose GSD absolutely loves her crate. It is her den. She goes in there on her own when she's tired; she voluntarily sleeps in it (currently in my walk-in closet) even when she's got a bed right next to mine. Our trainer, with whom I've been boarding Willow when I go out of town, told me the other day she has to close the door on Willow's crate to keep her from just living there all the time. I was hoping to eventually get rid of it (would be nice to get my walk-in closet back!) but she loves it so much, I don't have the heart to (and unfortunately don't have a better place to put it, haha...my house is v. small).


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

SuperG said:


> @*K_Bens
> "The crying stage is very hard, but it does stop."*
> 
> Just a thought to your observation......the "crying stage" IMHO can be completely avoided.
> ...


Not stupid to me! I moved his crate into my room and slept right beside him. He improved overnight and the crying was gone in a mere two days. 
Definently crate. As I'm sure many have said, it's like a little cubby for just them. They love it. If you get a wire crate, OP, lay a crate blanket or a sheet over it so there is more of a secure, covered hiding place. The wire crates often give dogs a sense of vulnerability because of its openness.


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## MyWifeIsBoss (Apr 27, 2020)

Crate.

There's been a few times over the past fortnight where Ray has shown that he truly thinks nothing bad can happen to him in his crate. It's his safe space. And he's finally started to go in there of his own accord.

Having it is so valuable.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

Vukodlak said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thought I'd kick off my very first post with a crate training topic:
> 
> ...


Ask him if it's wrong to give a child his own bedroom, a private space that is solely his. The crate serves a similar function for the dog. It is not a punishment, it is a privilege. It gives the dog a safe space when he wants to chill away from others. It is a comfortable place for him, and also secure. A crate is not a prison cell. You can (and should) line it with something cozy, whether a crate pad designed for crates or a soft blanket that smells like you. You can (and should) add a few toys or treats that your dog likes. 

When you explain to your husband that a crate actually benefits the dog and gives it its own safe space... maybe he'll understand.

But whether or not he does, I would get the crate. It will make training so much easier, plus it is wonderful for a new puppy to have its own safe space to escape to.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OP, you haven't even brought home that WL puppy and you already have a (major issue) disagreement with your husband. Brace yourself, this is just the beginning. You are the one with experience and I would hope/recommend that your hubby stays pretty much out of the decisions. It may save your marriage. This heads-up is based on my situation.


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## GSDnewbieNero (Aug 1, 2020)

Only used a crate for our current GSD puppy and honestly what a game changer!! Toilet training was a breeze - you can go shower with peace of mind and during those times that the puppy is driving you up the wall and you think you have to return it (because those moments happen haha) you can put him in there and give yourself a break. Nero is 6 months now and he hasn’t been in his crate since he was 5 months (he grew out of it and he just doesn’t need it anymore). He knows his place command - so when he’s in the way I tell him to go on his bed and he goes. But honestly, couldn’t have survived the teething / biting / chewing phase without it.


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

Crate for sure!
It makes training so much easier. It's not just a matter of preventing damage, it is also about keeping your pup safe when you can't pay attention. Chewing electrical cords, furniture, garbage, even his toys can all lead to dangerous situations such as choking or even poisoning.
Someone said that , "you wouldn't crate a baby". Sure you do, effectively a crib is just that; so is a playpen.
I would never raise a pup without a crate.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Jorski said:


> Someone said that , "you wouldn't crate a baby". Sure you do, effectively a crib is just that; so is a playpen.


We just left our baby children on the floor in the kitchen with some pee pads....they cried for a few nights but eventually settled down....cribs and playpens are so cruel and just nice words for cages.


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## [email protected] Gmail.com (Dec 10, 2020)

Crate, crate, crate!!!! Put small crate next to your bed for 1st few wks. you can reach down & puppy will feel you there at night which is comforting for both of you. They are pack animals & shouldn’t be left alone all night or for long periods especially as puppies. Crating gives them a secure den & prevents accidents. We crated our GSD when we were not at home for her first 2 yrs & we noticed she retreated to the crate for “alone” time on her own. Crating should never be used as punishment but should be a secure environment for the dog. I have had dogs all my life but only used crate with our last dog & will ALWAYS use it from now on.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Vukodlak said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thought I'd kick off my very first post with a crate training topic:.
> So, I don't know.... crate or no crate?


We are picking up a new baby in January - CRATE! You are asking for problems without some crate training - both as a pup and later on. We will be using the crate in our bedroom and moving it around as needed. My wife and I and our10 year old GSD will all be in with the pup. edited to reiterate what bruby1978 said.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

[email protected] Gmail.com said:


> Crate, crate, crate!!!! Put small crate next to your bed for 1st few wks. you can reach down & puppy will feel you there at night which is comforting for both of you. They are pack animals & shouldn’t be left alone all night or for long periods especially as puppies. Crating gives them a secure den & prevents accidents. We crated our GSD when we were not at home for her first 2 yrs & we noticed she retreated to the crate for “alone” time on her own. Crating should never be used as punishment but should be a secure environment for the dog. I have had dogs all my life but only used crate with our last dog & will ALWAYS use it from now on.


I agree with everything you said but why do you feel the need to crate a dog for her first two years when you are not at home?

It's a great idea until the dog is housebroken and well behaved but after that, they are the guardians of the home with a job to do while you're away imo


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## Scottsamolinski (Mar 26, 2020)

Vukodlak said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thought I'd kick off my very first post with a crate training topic:
> 
> ...


💯 kennel. I had a male 25 years ago. The crate became his home. Eventually, we moved it to the basement and put it under the stairs. He would go downstairs on his own and sleep or just chill in the kennel.

I currently have a female that is 11.5 months. High energy freak of nature. Nothing chewed, potty trained in a month and I worked 12’s. Do the research, GS love to den. Kennels/crates are good IMO.
Good luck


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## kona2008 (Dec 5, 2011)

Vukodlak said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thought I'd kick off my very first post with a crate training topic:
> 
> ...


I have trained 2 GSD's from a puppy. My philophy is in between both of you. Definitely use a crate at night when you get him home because it really helps in potty training. I will not go into the logic but just google it. Now for using it during the day. I have never used it during the day with one exception. I am with Search and Rescue with my K9 and when I travel, he is in a crate. to dangerous no to be. So the dog should be able to accept a crate anytime without concern. When my dog gets into the crate on route to the search is is calm an enjoys it. Sometime it is a long time before we get sent out after reaching the search area so he stays in the crate but when he knows we are going to search and I get his gear he cannot wait to get out.


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## [email protected] Gmail.com (Dec 10, 2020)

WNGD said:


> I agree with everything you said but why do you feel the need to crate a dog for her first two years when you are not at home?
> 
> It's a great idea until the dog is housebroken and well behaved but after that, they are the guardians of the home with a job to do while you're away imo


Good point. We did it on recommendation of trainer and in retrospect we could have stopped a lot sooner. She is eight and will occasionally go in her crate but now prefers her memory foam bed!


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## RonC (Aug 30, 2020)

[email protected] Gmail.com said:


> Crate, crate, crate!!!! Put small crate next to your bed for 1st few wks. you can reach down & puppy will feel you there at night which is comforting for both of you. They are pack animals & shouldn’t be left alone all night or for long periods especially as puppies. Crating gives them a secure den & prevents accidents. We crated our GSD when we were not at home for her first 2 yrs & we noticed she retreated to the crate for “alone” time on her own. Crating should never be used as punishment but should be a secure environment for the dog. I have had dogs all my life but only used crate with our last dog & will ALWAYS use it from now on.


Just curious - and anyone should feel free to answer this - but what is the strategy after the first few days or weeks (!) of keeping the crate in the master bedroom with you? 

For one, being on the 2nd floor with us would certainly make it hard to get outside quickly during potty training. It would probably would be better to sleep downstairs near the crate - wherever we end up putting it.

And second, how did you start adding distance between yourself and the crate each night to get him used to not being right near you through the night?

And I realize our houses are all different, but I'm interested in surveying where folks like to locate their crates. I would think the basement is too far away no matter what your house looks like - so is it pretty much on the first floor somewhere, like a hallway or in the kitchen?

Thanks


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## RonC (Aug 30, 2020)

SuperG said:


> I've never used a crate per se......however , I've used ....for a short term.... an enclosed area outside with a dog house attached as well as a room in the house with nothing in it for the dog to injure itself or destroy. My current GSD had free rein of our house at 5-6 months of age. I spent a lot of time training this dog so she could gain her unrestricted liberties in the house in our absence.......and she certainly does "guard" the house.
> 
> 4 dogs over my time and the 3 GSDs I've had..... all gained their free range of the house fairly quick....
> 
> ...


Hi. We may be getting a pup in late February.

I am _very_ interested to hear how you were able to train a 5 month old to have free reign of the house without tearing it apart!! That would be the most ideal of all situations!

Thank you.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

WNGD said:


> I agree with everything you said but why do you feel the need to crate a dog for her first two years when you are not at home?
> 
> It's a great idea until the dog is housebroken and well behaved but after that, they are the guardians of the home with a job to do while you're away imo


I have a dog now who I don’t ever foresee not being crated while unattended. I know of several who will obliterate homes if left unattended outside of a crate.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

RonC said:


> Just curious - and anyone should feel free to answer this - but what is the strategy after the first few days or weeks (!) of keeping the crate in the master bedroom with you?
> 
> For one, being on the 2nd floor with us would certainly make it hard to get outside quickly during potty training. It would probably would be better to sleep downstairs near the crate - wherever we end up putting it.
> 
> ...


I sleep with my dogs the first couple of days. I introduce crate training during the day after the first day or two. I tire them out so that they want to sleep, then place them in the crate. I place the dogs crates somewhere away from where people would congregate. Where depends on the layout. I have one dog crated in my room now and the other crated just outside it.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bearshandler said:


> I have a dog now who I don’t ever foresee not being crated while unattended. I know of several who will obliterate homes if left unattended outside of a crate.


Shadow climbed onto the fridge. Just to investigate. She is not at all destructive or poorly behaved. She is crated for safety as she makes poor decisions. Lol.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Somebody in this forum described a method of using security cameras with audio......I chose to go about the process without the use of the tech gadgets...but can certainly see the benefit.

My process was pretty much developing the idea that "Big Brother" was always watching. I would place the dog on a down/stay in the backyard and then go in the house and monitor the dog with the window slightly open......the moment the dog started to break the down/stay....I would yell out a "EHHHH" .....and then a "Down"....dog would down again....I would move to another window and view the dog....wait patiently and correct as required. I never stayed at the same window after the verbal correction....at times I'd sneak out the front door and view the dog from other places of hiding....and startle/correct the dog as necessary. I started the process with very short sessions and increased duration as time and success warranted.

I took this same approach and would put the dog in a room in the house....door closed but window open slightly. On the floor of the room I would place certain items which were verboten for the dog to chew on.....such as electrical cords / patch of carpet / empty pop can etc.....I'd also leave a chew toy or two. I'd issue my " guard the house " and then leave. I would go out the front door...get in my truck...drive around the corner and park it....and then sneak back to the open window. Stealth and playing the wind were all taken into consideration because I had no doubt if the dog winded me.....the exercise would lose most of its impact. I would view the dog.....if the dog sniffed the items it wasn't supposed to mess with....no big deal ...but the moment the dog either pawed or mouthed the restricted item...I would bellow out a hearty "NOOO...LEAVE IT " through the screen of the slightly open window....it would really surprise the dog no doubt....but the bottom line was " Big Brother" had eyes on you even when you think I'm gone.

The dog would be placed in other rooms where I could still control the situation...with the dog thinking I was gone.

I issued the same " guard the house...." every time I would leave.....I still do today ....almost 8 years later.

This process was done on a regular basis and after a month or so.....the dog had house privileges but every time I left.... the dog was placed in a particular spot in the living room as I issued my "guard the house...." That evolved into a default place in that spot whenever I would say " guard the house..". The bonus of this training was the dog never crowding the front door when I would leave without her....it's a different story when she knows we're leaving together.

There was one incident after the dog had free rein of the house....she either pawed or chewed a small section of carpeting. Upon my arrival and seeing it....I just shook my head and it was obvious the dog knew she had messed up....I found no need for any correction or punishment...the moment for that had long since passed for any effectiveness.

I also believe that all previous leave it training ....garbage can/ counter surfing/ etc. made a difference in the overall process of the dog having house privileges.

Whatever verbal commands/corrections you choose to use...make certain you remain consistent..."leave it" meant NEVER EVER versus a "wait" and then releasing the dog to take possession of the item. I see people doing this at times with food scraps and other items....I believe the lack of consistency is confusing to the dog and compromises a quality "leave it" or whatever word you choose to use.

SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Previous post was regarding your question


SuperG


RonC said:


> Hi. We may be getting a pup in late February.
> 
> I am _very_ interested to hear how you were able to train a 5 month old to have free reign of the house without tearing it apart!! That would be the most ideal of all situations!
> 
> Thank you.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I always have the new pup crated beside my bed. Upstairs or main floor, no difference. Virtually zero crying or sleepless nights. I don't want my dogs abandoned to the kitchen or basement, I just don't get that.

Current two dogs, neither ever had a single accident in the crate, not one. Current pup had either 2 or three accidents in the house, each was pee, each was my error including one seconds after coming in the house for the first time.

Then the crate is left open and pup given access to half the bedroom (other dog on other side) and finally fully bedroom and hallway. Crate no longer needed and was left up for a few months for their comfort but always open. Dog then had full run of the house by 5 months even when we were out except living room where dog number 2 could jump in and out of to get away from the little terror


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Kind of late but with adopting the new "kid" in two weeks this is what we decided to try for travel and in house. She won't fit for long but I think it will be enough. We have a huge plastic one but I would have to put it in the truck bed and that won't happen. Our "kids" always ride inside with us.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

coolgsd said:


> Kind of late but with adopting the new "kid" in two weeks this is what we decided to try for travel and in house. She won't fit for long but I think it will be enough. We have a huge plastic one but I would have to put it in the truck bed and that won't happen. Our "kids" always ride inside with us.
> View attachment 568002


I tried one of those with bear and he blasted a hole in it the first day.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

RonC said:


> Just curious - and anyone should feel free to answer this - but what is the strategy after the first few days or weeks (!) of keeping the crate in the master bedroom with you?
> 
> For one, being on the 2nd floor with us would certainly make it hard to get outside quickly during potty training. It would probably would be better to sleep downstairs near the crate - wherever we end up putting it.
> 
> And second, how did you start adding distance between yourself and the crate each night to get him used to not being right near you through the night?


I always crate a new puppy right next to our bed. Once they outgrow that smaller crate, there's a larger crate across the room. Transitioning to the larger crate was never a problem. Our house is single story so there was never any need to not have the crates in our bedroom. I might have done things differently until pup was old enough to hold it all night if taking it outside during the night involved running down a flight of stairs.

Dena, Keefer, and Halo spent their entire lives crated in our bedroom at night. They would have been fine loose, but both of them liked their crates, they would sometimes go take a nap there and always went in on their own at bedtime. On non work days, my husband always gets up before me and the dogs would stay quietly in their crates while I slept in. Otherwise, they'd probably have gotten up with him, gone outside to pee, then run back into the bedroom and jump on my head until I got up to feed them, lol.

Cava was crated at night until her spay surgery in October. Since then she's been sleeping on the bed with us. We caved! Halo took care of the "no dogs on the couch" rule, and Cava has obliterated the "dogs sleep in crates" rule. She's been really good, she never budges even if I get up to go to the bathroom during the night. And she's pretty patient about waiting for me to get up in the morning, at least until she's sure I'm awake.

Here are Dena & Keefer hanging out in their crates back in 2008.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

coolgsd said:


> Kind of late but with adopting the new "kid" in two weeks this is what we decided to try for travel and in house. She won't fit for long but I think it will be enough. We have a huge plastic one but I would have to put it in the truck bed and that won't happen. Our "kids" always ride inside with us.
> View attachment 568002


That might be OK in the car but he'll chew through it the first time he wants out in the house


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I always crate a new puppy right next to our bed. Once they outgrow that smaller crate, there's a larger crate across the room. Transitioning to the larger crate was never a problem. Our house is single story so there was never any need to not have the crates in our bedroom. I might have done things differently until pup was old enough to hold it all night if taking it outside during the night involved running down a flight of stairs.
> 
> Dena, Keefer, and Halo spent their entire lives crated in our bedroom at night. They would have been fine loose, but both of them liked their crates, they would sometimes go take a nap there and always went in on their own at bedtime. On non work days, my husband always gets up before me and the dogs would stay quietly in their crates while I slept in. Otherwise, they'd probably have gotten up with him, gone outside to pee, then run back into the bedroom and jump on my head until I got up to feed them, lol.
> 
> ...


Exact match to our large crate - really like them.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

WNGD said:


> That might be OK in the car but he'll chew through it the first time he wants out in the house


She will be with us 100% of the time so when she is in the "soft side", it will be right by the bed. My wife is a light sleeper so hope we hear any chewing going on. Like Cassidy's Mom said it should be an easy transition to the bigger crate. We have been through this all many times but each pup is a new experience.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

WNGD said:


> ................ where dog number 2 could jump in and out of to get away from the little terror


Funny. You have seen the "Raptor" stage picture?


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

coolgsd said:


> Kind of late but with adopting the new "kid" in two weeks this is what we decided to try for travel and in house. She won't fit for long but I think it will be enough. We have a huge plastic one but I would have to put it in the truck bed and that won't happen. Our "kids" always ride inside with us.


I have this crate at the foot of my bed. Juno hasn't ripped it, but she is not a destructive dog. She has destroyed a total of three stuffies, all when she was teething. I am not happy with this crate, because I find it holds smells for a long time afterward. She retched up some bile and my human nose could smell it for weeks afterward. I couldn't get it clean. Juno probably loved all the smells. I have tried to line it as best as I can with old blankets (again, Juno does not normally destroy them).

Juno is now 13 months old. This crate is in the bedroom at the foot of my bed because of the layout of the bedroom. I would like to keep her next to me but cannot. I no longer zip up the crate at night. Also, I have to be careful how I zip it up because she can push her nose through any gap I leave between the two zippers and escape. What I like about it is that I can unzip the top and reach in to pet her. She hasn't tried to climb out this way.

I also have an Amazon basics crate in the living room, which rattles in a very annoying way.

For reference, we started to use the soft crate when Juno was 9 months old.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

coolgsd said:


> She will be with us 100% of the time so when she is in the "soft side", it will be right by the bed. My wife is a light sleeper so hope we hear any chewing going on. Like Cassidy's Mom said it should be an easy transition to the bigger crate. We have been through this all many times but each pup is a new experience.


The problem with that crate wasn’t chewing. Bear was literally able to bust a hole in it. I think it might be fine for a dog that’s already crate trained, but I wouldn’t use it for any dog that was going to actually try to get out.


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## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

As others have said, this is of course a personal choice, and I don't judge either way. I don't crate and I only crated my first dog. We're getting another GSD puppy next spring, which would be the third time I am doing crateless puppy training. Over the years I have worked out my own system on how not to use a crate when puppy training because there is very little online on this very topic. My dogs that were not crate trained have never destroyed anything in my house or gotten themselves into trouble. 

Whatever you decide to do, both methods work when done right and don't when done wrong. Good luck.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Bearshandler said:


> The problem with that crate wasn’t chewing. Bear was literally able to bust a hole in it. I think it might be fine for a dog that’s already crate trained, but I wouldn’t use it for any dog that was going to actually try to get out.


We had one boy that would not crate through the time we were at work (about 4-5 hours). He didn't have anxiety syndrome but he did not like being confined. I really didn't blame him. I had an empty basement storage room and I put up a chain link fence so he would have a more comfortable area - about 12 by 12 ft. Nope - he went right though that as well. Fortunately I didn't find any damage to his teeth enamel.
Needless to say, that was a rare one for our 45+ years that a crate (or run) did not work. But for an 8 week old pup the soft side will work for a while (mainly at night) and we will always be with her - 24/7.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> For reference, we started to use the soft crate when Juno was 9 months old.


Our new girl will be much younger when she outgrows the soft crate (30 inches long) and should by that time be pretty well behaved. 

We had a 6 month old that we didn't crate (our first GSD) and she did real well but I woke up one morning with her breathing right into my face. She wanted to go out - but her breath was horrible. She had got up on the kitchen counter and ate some onion leftover (really bad for dogs) that my wife had not cleaned up from dinner. We enjoyed letting her have free roam and she was very good about not chewing or pottying in the house but like a little kid - she would get into anything that she shouldn't at that age.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Bearshandler said:


> I tried one of those with bear and he blasted a hole in it the first day.


We are at 2 weeks with her (just at night) and it is holding together. I am really pretty impressed but tomorrow the big crate comes out and will give her more room


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