# German Shepherds sniff out lung cancer



## SitUbuSit (Aug 1, 2011)

Pretty cool: The Newest Way to Detect Cancer? Let Fido Sniff it Out - - TIME Healthland


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Cool and interesting. Thanks for sharing.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

Cesar Millan was also involved with cancer sniffing dogs. One problem is turning the dogs off as they have alerted handlers to passersby on the street and in non working situations.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Geesh, how horrible to be walking down the street and have a
Cancer sniffing dog run up to you and alert!! :0


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

LARHAGE said:


> Geesh, how horrible to be walking down the street and have a
> Cancer sniffing dog run up to you and alert!! :0


The problem of course is that the handler would be the only one who knew what was going on but what was his ethical duty? "Hey,have you been diagnosed with cancer?" "No,well my dog has alerted me that you might have cancer and he is right 90% of the time." Ugh!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

lrodptl said:


> Cesar Millan was also involved with cancer sniffing dogs. One problem is turning the dogs off as they have alerted handlers to passersby on the street and in non working situations.


Uh...and I think that is the problem with having someone like Cesar Millan who has no working dog experience involved in this. A dog should not be executing a set of behaviors like that without instruction from the handler, IMO. Simple training issue.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> Uh...and I think that is the problem with having someone like Cesar Millan who has no working dog experience involved in this. A dog should not be executing a set of behaviors like that without instruction from the handler, IMO. Simple training issue.


It was not Cesar Millan's dogs or program. He was simply an observer and supporter and in training himself. It was The Pine Street Foundation and Michael's Broffman and McCulloch. They used poodles who they considered perfectionists and they said it took many months to teach each dog to turn off.

http://pinestreetfoundation.org/2010/05/03/can-dogs-detect-cancer/


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

lrodptl said:


> It was not Cesar Millan's dogs or program.


OK, then general training problem non-related to Cesar.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I saw a show about dogs that could sniff emeralds in the mines- guess they're getting very rare and hard to find [the emeralds I mean].


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> OK, then general training problem non-related to Cesar.


Don't let your bias show. They used clicker training and not dominance training (where Cesar is modulating by the way).


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

lrodptl said:


> Don't let your bias show. They used clicker training and not dominance training (where Cesar is modulating by the way).


What bias? It's a training problem no matter what way you swing it and what methods you used--a dog shouldn't randomly be going around indicating something like this outside of a command, I'm sorry.

I'm failing to see where a bias of clicker training versus dominance has anything to do with this issue?


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> What bias? It's a training problem no matter what way you swing it and what methods you used--a dog shouldn't randomly be going around indicating something like this outside of a command, I'm sorry.
> 
> I'm failing to see where a bias of clicker training versus dominance has anything to do with this issue?


You took a swing at Millan and said it was a simple training problem. I told you it was not Millan and it was other trainers who took months to figure it out. You implied that you could do it better. I think you should contact them and straighten them out. They need your expertise.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

GSDElsa said:


> Uh...and I think that is the problem with having someone like Cesar Millan who has no working dog experience involved in this. A dog should not be executing a set of behaviors like that without instruction from the handler, IMO. Simple training issue.


Actually, that is inaccurate. A good detector dog will stop doing almost anything once, it smells the odor of what it was trained to find, and go to work. Doesn't matter what the handler has said or not said. A conditioned response is exactly that. It is a response cued by a certain stimulus. When properly conditioned, it isn't a thought process, it's a reaction. 

DFrost


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm sorry, that's an immense liability to have a dog who detects cancer indicating on anyone they happen to walk by that has it. I shudder at the mess that kind of thing can create. A person knowing they have cancer and not wanting the people around them to know. Sending an emotionally unstable person over the edge. It's nice that they have figured out how to train this behavior--now they need to figure out how to control it, I'm sorry.

If a SAR dog can be trained to not indicate a find on every person they walk by on the street, a cancer detecting dog can be trained to the same discernment. 

This isn't a bomb detector dog never turning off (and one you wouldn't want ever turned off). This is an issue that plays heavily with human emtions and health. No excuses in training, IMO.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

lrodptl said:


> You took a swing at Millan and said it was a simple training problem. I told you it was not Millan and it was other trainers who took months to figure it out. You implied that you could do it better. I think you should contact them and straighten them out. They need your expertise.


I think that Milan has his place. He is a behaviorist specializing in "red zone" dogs. He is NOT a trainer of working dogs. The only logical reason why ANY training program like this would get him involved is for the publicity.

If the other trainers took months to figure it out, then they should be fixing it in their program. It has nothing to do with whether I could do it better or not. It's just unacceptable considering what they are training to do.

I certainly HOPE that this: "No,well my dog has alerted me that you might have cancer and he is right 90% of the time." was something that you just made on up on the fly and not actually something these people are telling random folks on the street!


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> I think that Milan has his place. He is a behaviorist specializing in "red zone" dogs. He is NOT a trainer of working dogs. The only logical reason why ANY training program like this would get him involved is for the publicity.
> 
> If the other trainers took months to figure it out, then they should be fixing it in their program. It has nothing to do with whether I could do it better or not. It's just unacceptable considering what they are training to do.
> 
> I certainly HOPE that this: "No,well my dog has alerted me that you might have cancer and he is right 90% of the time." was something that you just made on up on the fly and not actually something these people are telling random folks on the street!


Unlike most people Millan actually researches and supports all aspects of dog training and behaviors. The number of top trainers he now works with seems to slip by the public eye,such as the recent month he spent with Dr. Ian Dunbar. He was involved with Pine Street as part of his journey and supports it with publicity resulting in funding. His mind is wide open,we should unchain ours.
The quote was a comment by Dr Michael Broffman on what they were in the process of training to prevent.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

GSDElsa said:


> If a SAR dog can be trained to not indicate a find on every person they walk by on the street, a cancer detecting dog can be trained to the same discernment.
> 
> This isn't a bomb detector dog never turning off (and one you wouldn't want ever turned off). This is an issue that plays heavily with human emtions and health. No excuses in training, IMO.


You are comparing apples and oranges. One is called "discrimination", when a dog is trained to detect one from many. A "live find" SAR dog ignores the dead among the rubble. The other is a conditioned response. Trained to respond to a specific stimulus/stimuli. Being a cancer survivor, I well understand the "emotions". My emotions however, have nothing to do with what a dog is trained to detect and/or ignore. 

DFrost


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