# Question on Adequan loading dose



## mysweetkaos

Kaos is about 2.5 weeks into his 4 week loading dose of adequan. We are doing 2 injections per week. We have noticed great improvement in his mobility and general attitude. He is more alert, probably from being off all pain meds, he plays with Sherman (actually more just torments Sherman), he is again running to the door. All in all wonderful changes. Here is my concern. He does great the first couple days after the injection, come around the 3rd day there is more stiffness visible, a little more slowness emerging, etc. At this point shouldn't it be more built up in his system?

Since we only have about 1.5 weeks before he will be expected to go 3-4 weeks between injections, shouldn't he not be showing visible signs of discomfort 3 days after injection?

I will speak to the vet about it, but I will get the standard give it time response. So I would love the experience of anyone who has used it.
Thank you.


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## Stosh

My mom just started this series with her 6 yr old gsd. They're visiting for 3 mos so I'll have a good perspective of its effectiveness. She's into her 3rd week and there's a definite improvement in mobility, energy and alertness as you've observed but it seems as though she has a hard time getting up after laying still for several hours. When she's out playing she's fine but getting up first thing in the morning or last time out at night seems to be a struggle but not painful if that make sense. The vet explained that results would take time, at least 4-6 weeks, but she has had patients that didn't show enough of an improvement to stay on it on a regular basis


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## mysweetkaos

Stosh said:


> My mom just started this series with her 6 yr old gsd. They're visiting for 3 mos so I'll have a good perspective of its effectiveness. She's into her 3rd week and there's a definite improvement in mobility, energy and alertness as you've observed but it seems as though she has a hard time getting up after laying still for several hours. When she's out playing she's fine but getting up first thing in the morning or last time out at night seems to be a struggle but not painful if that make sense. The vet explained that results would take time, at least 4-6 weeks, but she has had patients that didn't show enough of an improvement to stay on it on a regular basis


Yes it is definetely more pronounced early morning and late evening. He has had great improvement over w/out it no doubt. Before starting this we were preparing to have him put to sleep because with arthritis in both knees everything had become such a struggle. I guess I was just expecting to have a longer time build up. Another factor could also be we have had a bit of a cold streak for here, so that is never good.


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## Kayos and Havoc

My Kayos is on Adequan, she is a month short of 9. She has been on it now for almost a year. As I recall it took the full 4 weeks loading dose before we saw pretty consistent relief. It will vary dog to dog. My old guy Max saw little relief with Adequan. It has been a miracle drug for Kayos.

Do the full 4 weeks and judge then. Even when you go to maintenace doses you will still see improvment for another few weeks. Do not forget the every 3 to 4 week maintenance shots as you won't want to get behind on them. I actually forgot Kayos' November injection and remembered 10 days late (idiot me forgot to mark the calendar). She had enough behind her that it did not bother her but when you are still building up the medication getting behind will affect thier pain level.

Kayos cannot take NSAIDs we discovered that after her hip replacement surgery. So for her it is Adqaun, supplements, and Tramadol as needed. 

For supplements I have her on Springtime Advanced Hip and Joint, Ester C, Hyalnuric Acid, Salmon Oil and Vitamin E. All of this helps.


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## mysweetkaos

Kayos and Havoc said:


> My Kayos is on Adequan, she is a month short of 9. She has been on it now for almost a year. As I recall it took the full 4 weeks loading dose before we saw pretty consistent relief. It will vary dog to dog. My old guy Max saw little relief with Adequan. It has been a miracle drug for Kayos.
> 
> Do the full 4 weeks and judge then. Even when you go to maintenace doses you will still see improvment for another few weeks. Do not forget the every 3 to 4 week maintenance shots as you won't want to get behind on them. I actually forgot Kayos' November injection and remembered 10 days late (idiot me forgot to mark the calendar). She had enough behind her that it did not bother her but when you are still building up the medication getting behind will affect thier pain level.
> 
> Kayos cannot take NSAIDs we discovered that after her hip replacement surgery. So for her it is Adqaun, supplements, and Tramadol as needed.
> 
> For supplements I have her on Springtime Advanced Hip and Joint, Ester C, Hyalnuric Acid, Salmon Oil and Vitamin E. All of this helps.


Thank you..that gives me more hope. The vet and I are hesitant to go back to tramadol on an as needed basis, he suggested neurontin (sp). Although not until after the loading dose, he wants him off everything except suppliments (all the same as you mentioned) until after he's *loaded*


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## RebelGSD

Would it hurt to do shots more frequently after the loading dose?


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## mysweetkaos

I'm not sure that would be up to my vet to weigh the pros/cons. They usually cut back to every 4 weeks....sometimes every 3 weeks. I do not know of any drawbacks to doing them more often...so I will have to wait and see what the vet says..


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## Kayos and Havoc

They can be given more frequently, we had Max on it every 3 weeks trying to get better results. 

Tramadol is a pretty good medication. Nuerontin or Gabapentin did nothing for Max. But again every dog is different and it may help Kaos. Don't rule out anything to include supplements.


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## mysweetkaos

Kayos and Havoc said:


> They can be given more frequently, we had Max on it every 3 weeks trying to get better results.
> 
> Tramadol is a pretty good medication. Nuerontin or Gabapentin did nothing for Max. But again every dog is different and it may help Kaos. Don't rule out anything to include supplements.


We do supplements. Previously we did Rimadyl which made K aggressive, we switched to tramadol which made him a bit foggy and reactive. That is why he said if we need more pain control he would like to try nuerontin. What supplements would you recommend so I can compare what we do and any new ones to try? Thank you!


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## Anja1Blue

Anja just finished her 4 week course. I can't say that I see that much difference (she has arthritis in her right elbow and has a fairly pronounced limp). However I have been told to give it a month before making a final judgment - vet said that when we are around an individual all the time it is sometimes hard to see subtle changes. If at that time she seems worse then I will know that it probably did help, but perhaps not to the level where it was dramatic enough to be completely effective.

My next move, if I decide the Adequan is a bust, will be to try acupuncture - I have had excellent results with this in the past. For discomfort I'm going to try Herbspirin - this was suggested in another thread by, I think, Ruth (BowWowMeow.) I absolutely will not use NSAIDS, for long term conditions. Too hard on the liver and kidneys for my taste, and some dogs are more sensitive than others. (I had a dog go into kidney failure on Etogesic - and it didn't take very much.) 

As far as supplements go, Anja has a sensitivity to shellfish - so traditional things we give for arthritis like MSM, Glucosamine etc are out....
_________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## mysweetkaos

Thank you all for your replies. I am becoming disheartened. I am calling the vet right now to talk to him. We have had a cold front (31 degrees, I know but it's cold for here) roll in and he looks horrible. Last night he went to scratch his head with his back leg while laying down, and just started crying....he had just had a shot the day prior. I know the vet is going to tell me to finish the loading dose (next week) before I decide anything.....but I am really wanting to put him back on something for the pain in the mean time. He was really showing some improvement before it got cold and now I feel like we are back at square one....I just want to cry. Not sure if the cold has anything to do with it, he only goes out 3-4 times a day to potty....usually hangs out about 10 minutes and then comes back in.


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## carlsonee

Have you tried a heat pad? I know my boy has problems when it is cold. Are you giving him Dasuquin along with Rimadyl?


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## mysweetkaos

Thank you for your reply...I noticed you had commented on the pain mgmt thread as well....and I got sidetracked and forgot to respond:crazy: 
Kaos has an orthopedic mattress with heat that we use. He is now off the adequan...long story we switched vets and we are trying more comprehensive pain control and haven't ruled out adequan....but found it didn't give that much relief.
Kaos is now on meloxicam and gabapentin daily. We also use the duralactin you mentioned in the other thread with numerous other suppliments (glucosamine, fish oil, zeel, etc) We also have a bottle of tramadol here for use through rough patches. So far, so good...I think we are looking into acupuncture as well. Thank you for your concern and advice....this is my first real senior, so I am always interested in what others have done

Forgot...not dasuquin, but he is on glucosamine....he did not do well on rimadyl so we use meloxicam...plus it is only $4 at target for a month so withh all his other expenses, every savings helps!!


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## carlsonee

I am glad your Kaos is doing better! It is a challenge having a Senior, but it sounds like you are doing everything you can to make Kaos comfortable. I just wanted to say it is amazing how much Kaos looks like my boy Falko, I had to do a double take when I saw the pic. How do I post a pic of my boy like you have? I managed to post to an album, but duh me! Can't figure out how to do it!
Please let me know how Kaos does (and you) it is always good to talk to someone who has the same interests, I don't know many people who put their dogs first and not many people understand how amazing a GSD is!
Best Wishes, you and Kaos are in my prayers.


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## mysweetkaos

As for pics, up in the right hand corner it will say Welcome "", under that it says private messages. Click on that, then on the left hand side it will be a control panel....go down to edit avatar, I think to use a pic from your album, cut/paste the info under the pic you want. Does any of that make sense? Computers are not my strong suit:blush: Can't wait to see pics of your boy....he sounds very handsome They are an amazing breed...and you'll find on here there are lots of people who share the love of the breed and a lot of knowledge to be had!! Welcome to the forum!


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## carlsonee

I did it! Thanks Candice. Are you all able to get into my albums? I just started putting pics in


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## mysweetkaos

Oh good...you must be a fast learner...because I know when it comes to computers I am not a good teacher I did see some of your pics. He is very handsome!


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## gsdmi

I don't have Adequan experience with my dogs, but do with my 15-year old cat, who has a hip that has arthritis so severe, the x-rays look almost deformed.

For his Adequan, we had him on two shots per week for 4 weeks. Then went to one shot per week for another 4 weeks. Then once every other week for 4 injections, then we went to the once monthly. We found the once monthly wasn't quite enough, he started to get stiff about 3 weeks, so give him his injection then. 

Based on what we did with Buddy, maybe he needs more of his loading doses before you go to once a month? I can only speak from what we experienced, but Buddy is doing really good for a 15 year old cat with severe arthritis. We also have him going for accupuncture once every 5 weeks. I can't believe the difference these two things have made in him. His is so much more mobile, will jump up on the bed, chairs, etc. again and even tries to make jumps he should not -- we of course stop him, and help him get to where he wants, but he feels good enough to want to do it.

Hope you find the balance that works for Kaos.

Also forgot to mention our kitty cannot take pain medications due to his kidneys . . . we have them stabilized, but no pain meds. We have been incredibly fortunate that the combination of the Adequan and Accupuncture are helping him. We are not under any illusions we can cure, we are just trying to keep him as pain free as possible. His accupuncture vet is also chriropractic certified and while he doesn't need any adjustments, he just LOVES the little massages she gives him. We didn't know much about accupuncture, and I know every case is different, but it has made a HUGE HUGE difference and improvement in Bud's life.


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## katdog5911

Just wondering if you can lengthen the time between doses...??? Or do you have to start all over again if too much time elapses?


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## ILGHAUS

Instructions with the injections state IM but I've been hearing from other sources that subcutaneously injections are doing just as well. The vet I spoke with today said she hasn't heard of giving it SQ. Just recently I attended a workshop where that vet said she recommends SQ to all her clients. Looking online I'm seeing both ...

Does anyone else give SQ and seeing good results during or after the one month loading stage?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I have heard both too!!!! It is really confusing. And it is something that is important to me because I would never give any of my own dogs an IM injection, but am very comfortable giving SQ injections.


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