# Question to the prong collar pros



## luke4275 (May 23, 2011)

My pup is quite vocal, lucky me, lol. MY trainer tells me that while one would never leave a prong collar on while the dog is left unattended inside his crate, he says that if you are home within earshot, you would hear it if the dog ever got caught in the crate. My house is small . So small that when I'm in my bedroom sleeping, I can hear the pup whining, etc. Do the experts agree that it's ok to have the prong on.? I have been taking it off every nite for bedtime, which is really no big deal.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I would never leave a prong on routinely, either in or out of his crate. I'd put it on for training or walks and use a flat collar at other times. Many people don't even leave flat collars on their dogs all the time.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Out of curiosity, why would you leave the prong on when not in training or doing a training exercise?


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I would never leave a prong on routinely, either in or out of his crate. I'd put it on for training or walks and use a flat collar at other times. Many people don't even leave flat collars on their dogs all the time.


I'm not a prong collar expert but I agree 100% with Cassidy's Mom. 

I don't even understand the point of leaving it on regardless of what the trainers said.


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## luke4275 (May 23, 2011)

*prong*

Just an update. Per my trainer, my pup does well if the prong is on at the loosest setting. For training and walks we tighten it up to the right link, for other times, it is on the loosest link... that ok?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

No, I don't think that would be okay, and I really don't understand the point of putting the prong on the loosest link. :thinking: If you're going to use one, why not fit it properly and use it properly? What is his reasoning for having a prong on all the time? What is his reasoning for having it on too loose?


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## luke4275 (May 23, 2011)

*reply*

Trainers reasoning is that just by having the prong on,loose behavior improves.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

luke4275 said:


> Trainers reasoning is that just by having the prong on,loose behavior improves.


By what? Osmosis? What loose behaviors are you trying to improve?

Put the collar on, fitted correctly, for walking and training. Take it off the rest of the time.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

So you are training your dog to be collar smart. 

I would not leave a prong collar on. Use it for training and walks.


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## luke4275 (May 23, 2011)

*reply*

The collar has been removed. Are there any prong pros who agree that it can be left on the loosest link during the day so the dog behaves better just bec he knows it is on him?


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

No.


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## luke4275 (May 23, 2011)

*Collar smart*

Makes sense that it should come off except for training.. does anyone here agree with my trainer, that it can stay on loose during the day, just as a reminder to behave.. pup is 8 months old..


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

luke4275 said:


> The collar has been removed. Are there any prong pros who agree that it can be left on the loosest link during the day so the dog behaves better just bec he knows it is on him?



I would personally find a new trainer if they are feeding you this bull. I am pretty sure that my siberian husky would literally laugh at me if I tried that with her. 


Here is a link for you about the prong

Leerburg Dog Training | How to Fit a Prong Collar


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I agree with everyone else. I don't see how leaving it on is good. I don't like having any collar on my dog when we are in the house. 

I have heard putting the prong on 30 minutes before a training session and leaving it on for 30 minutes after helps to keep the dog from getting collar wise. That's the most I would ever consider though.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

With my young dog, prong goes on when we train, whether I use it or not. 

Prong on.... play ball.
Then training .....with play and treats interspersed. Corrections/Prong used as necessary.
Then more play.
Then prong off.

I very, very rarely leave any collar on my dogs.
Leaving a loose prong on your dog all day is, well, just not the smartest plan, IMO.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

luke4275 said:


> Makes sense that it should come off except for training.. does anyone here agree with my trainer, that it can stay on loose during the day, just as a reminder to behave.. pup is 8 months old..


I see you asking the same question several times, and I don't think you're going to find anyone to agree.

Now, this is extreme, so I'm not saying you'd do THIS, but here's what leaving on a prong for an extended period can do:










Please don't leave the prong on your puppy.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I would like to add that while the prong is a training tool, so is the owner, the prong will not train the dog itself.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

luke4275 said:


> The collar has been removed. Are there any prong pros who agree that it can be left on the loosest link during the day so the dog behaves better just bec he knows it is on him?


NO!!!!!

Dangerous. Prongs are 'training' collars for use while training.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

No.

This is the same trainer who wants a prong correction for whining in the crate, right?

Just ignore the puppy. it really works ingore the whine, reward the quiet.

I don't even leave a prong on while the dog is crated and driving to training. Figure if I am in a wreck....I want the dog in a snug flat collar with an ID.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

luke4275 said:


> Makes sense that it should come off except for training.. does anyone here agree with my trainer, that it can stay on loose during the day, just as a reminder to behave.. pup is 8 months old..


No. and a loose prong collar is probably MORE dangerous than a properly fitted one, as it's more likely to get caught up on something.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

luke4275 said:


> Just an update. Per my trainer, my pup does well if the prong is on at the loosest setting. For training and walks we tighten it up to the right link, for other times, it is on the loosest link... that ok?


 
Leave a prong on him as long as you ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that he will never get hung up on anything. And maybe choke to death!


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## Hoggan12M (Apr 12, 2012)

Im sorry i have googled this and tried looking it up I'm just not understanding... do prong collars poke your dog and hurt him for barking or something? thats kind of what i have gotten from looking it up. but if thats the case id never use one. i wouldn't want my buddy to punch me in the mouth for talking to much lol. sorry if I'm not understanding the concept if someone could explain that would be great! thanks!


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Hoggan12M said:


> Im sorry i have googled this and tried looking it up I'm just not understanding... do prong collars poke your dog and hurt him for barking or something? thats kind of what i have gotten from looking it up. but if thats the case id never use one. i wouldn't want my buddy to punch me in the mouth for talking to much lol. sorry if I'm not understanding the concept if someone could explain that would be great! thanks!




Thing about this scenario....a prong collar versus a choke chain. How do dogs correct each other? By choking each other or by nipping them? What makes more sense? What is more like real life? Have you ever put a prong collar on your dog? It's like night and day if used correctly


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Hoggan12M said:


> Im sorry i have googled this and tried looking it up I'm just not understanding... do prong collars poke your dog and hurt him for barking or something? thats kind of what i have gotten from looking it up. but if thats the case id never use one. i wouldn't want my buddy to punch me in the mouth for talking to much lol. sorry if I'm not understanding the concept if someone could explain that would be great! thanks!


A prong collar can be a really useful tool in training. When I first bought one I put it around my own neck and gave it a good hard tug. . . uncomfortable to be sure but not what I'd call painful. The reason a prong works so well is because it mimics the way a mother dog will nip a pup on the neck to correct him for nursing too hard or playing too hard with his brothers and sisters. The feeling of "teeth" nipping the neck is hard-wired into a dog's brain from birth and they respond very well to it. A prong collar is safer and more humane than a choke collar because dogs understand being nipped at the neck area; they don't understand being choked. Not to mention a prong has a natural stopping point so it can't choke the dog. A choke collar does not have a natural stopping point and can literally cut of air and blood supply. 

A quick tug "not a jerk" on the prong will get my dog's attention focused back on me in a way that even the tastiest food doesn't.

That said, any slip type training collar is inappropriate for everyday wear and there is certainly a time and place to use them. I don't think the original poster's situation is the appropriate one for a prong.


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## Hoggan12M (Apr 12, 2012)

Emoore said:


> A prong collar can be a really useful tool in training. When I first bought one I put it around my own neck and gave it a good hard tug. . . uncomfortable to be sure but not what I'd call painful. The reason a prong works so well is because it mimics the way a mother dog will nip a pup on the neck to correct him for nursing too hard or playing too hard with his brothers and sisters. The feeling of "teeth" nipping the neck is hard-wired into a dog's brain from birth and they respond very well to it. A prong collar is safer and more humane than a choke collar because dogs understand being nipped at the neck area; they don't understand being choked. Not to mention a prong has a natural stopping point so it can't choke the dog. A choke collar does not have a natural stopping point and can literally cut of air and blood supply.
> 
> A quick tug "not a jerk" on the prong will get my dog's attention focused back on me in a way that even the tastiest food doesn't.
> 
> That said, any slip type training collar is inappropriate for everyday wear and there is certainly a time and place to use them. I don't think the original poster's situation is the appropriate one for a prong.


 Thank you for this info you are so helpful! my resources when i "googled" it were obviously very poor. This is not a bad idea at all its like the cesar millan thing when he pinches the back of the dogs neck? Do you guys think that works as well? I really want to have an obedient loyal dog and I am really motivated. I have to admit when I saw a picture of the prong collar I said no way in **** but with this explanation I might consider it. But per your advice I would never leave it on him.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Hoggan12M said:


> Thank you for this info you are so helpful! my resources when i "googled" it were obviously very poor. This is not a bad idea at all its like the cesar millan thing when he pinches the back of the dogs neck? Do you guys think that works as well? I really want to have an obedient loyal dog and I am really motivated. I have to admit when I saw a picture of the prong collar I said no way in **** but with this explanation I might consider it. But per your advice I would never leave it on him.






I have a cover on mine because I got tired of the random comments from ignorant people.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Luke4275

Perhaps if you tell us the exact problem you need help with, we can help.

I assume it's the whining - but I could be wrong. Can you give more information please.


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## Hoggan12M (Apr 12, 2012)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> I have a cover on mine because I got tired of the random comments from ignorant people.
> 
> That is awesome if I decide this type of training is right for my GSP I will definitely invest in a cover because I would get smart with someone for being as ignorant as I was lol


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

This is where I got it from

Prong Collar Cover, Herm Sprenger Pinch Collar Cover

There's also pretty ones you can find here:

Secret Power


It also comes in handy if you ever bring your dog on a prong to AKC events. Training collars generally aren't allowed and people will definitely let you know! Ask me how I know, lol.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I've never had anybody say anything to me about using a prong on my dogs.


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Leave a prong on him as long as you ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that he will never get hung up on anything. And maybe choke to death!


No, use the collar only when it's necessary and use it in the context of training when you're there to mark and reward commands. If the collar's loosely left on the dog while wondering around on it's own the collar is doing.... what exactly? If it's tight and left on the dog then it's just uncomfortable for hours on end and sensless. To be completely blunt, misapplying training equipment is just stupid, no debate or reasoning for it can get over the fact it's plain common garden stupid.


The prong collar isn't a miracle cure, it relies exclusively on a person being on the other end of it and serves a specific purpose, it's range of influence is really very limited and is certainly not something to be 'creative' with.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Emoore said:


> I've never had anybody say anything to me about using a prong on my dogs.


I've had it happen at the Reliant dog show. It is a huge event, half filled with show rings, and vendors/rescue groups. It draws a huge crowd. I don't even think rescue groups are allowed to have prong collars on their dogs. How serious the rule is enforced, I don't know. I believe it is a rule at AKC events that they are not allowed. I walked over to the show rings to watch some breeds and this woman waddled up to me just appalled that I had a prong on my Doberman. She kept saying over and over that I couldn't have that on a dog at the show and kept telling me that I would get caught and asked to leave. 


Any show people, can you clarify if prong collars are allowed or not at AKC events? At smaller shows I bring my Dobe on a British slip lead, I never see prong collars on dogs there.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

i'd probably be going a different route with an 8 month old puppy.
PR is your friend, and while it's a lot more work, the payoff is better IMO.

not to say prongs are bad, they are a tool to use, correctly.

imo, your trainer isn't giving you good information. a prong collar should be used, like others said, for training and walks. a loose prong is a good way to get your dog hurt.
start practicing NILIF with your dog, with no prong, inside the house only.
you'll be surprised at how quickly she'll start to comply and work with you.
you have to make it fun for her, lots of treats she likes, and lots of very HAPPY praise, telling her how well she's doing. 

i'd probably look for a different trainer while you're at it.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i wouldn't crate a dog with any kind of collar or harness
on. my dogs collar is only on when we're leaving the house.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> No, use the collar only when it's necessary and use it in the context of training when you're there to mark and reward commands. If the collar's loosely left on the dog while wondering around on it's own the collar is doing.... what exactly? If it's tight and left on the dog then it's just uncomfortable for hours on end and sensless. To be completely blunt, misapplying training equipment is just stupid, no debate or reasoning for it can get over the fact it's plain common garden stupid.
> 
> 
> The prong collar isn't a miracle cure, it relies exclusively on a person being on the other end of it and serves a specific purpose, it's range of influence is really very limited and is certainly not something to be 'creative' with.


 
My statement was toungue in cheek - *obviously (or so i thought*) no one can be absolutely sure!!!!!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> I've had it happen at the Reliant dog show. It is a huge event, half filled with show rings, and vendors/rescue groups. It draws a huge crowd. I don't even think rescue groups are allowed to have prong collars on their dogs. How serious the rule is enforced, I don't know. I believe it is a rule at AKC events that they are not allowed. I walked over to the show rings to watch some breeds and this woman waddled up to me just appalled that I had a prong on my Doberman. She kept saying over and over that I couldn't have that on a dog at the show and kept telling me that I would get caught and asked to leave.
> 
> 
> Any show people, can you clarify if prong collars are allowed or not at AKC events? At smaller shows I bring my Dobe on a British slip lead, I never see prong collars on dogs there.


They are NOT allowed at AKC events - should be if they allow a "choke" collar but they are not allowed on the show grounds the day of a show.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

You can't correct your dog if you aren't attached to the other end. You would have to walk over, grab the collar, and then correct your dog, but by then your opportunity to give a correction is over because the dog thinks that just you walking over is what is resulting in the correction, not its behavior. Your dog will never be more obedient by just wearing a prong collar, they aren't that stupid. They will quickly figure out that even though they are wearing the collar, if you don't have a leash attached to it then they aren't going to get a correction. 

If you leave it on loose, it's just going to get caught or fall off. The prongs need to be tight to be secure, otherwise they can pop undone. 

I also don't see the purpose of crating a dog with any collar on. If you aren't using a collar for training or for identification, there's no point in having it on.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Prongs are not allowed at AKC events. I am not surprised if people said something. That can get you removed and you lose your entry fees. I use prongs on all my dogs for a variety of reasons but rules are rules. Why would a dog need a prong at an AKC event? They aren't useful for conformation and the obedience and other stuff is mostly off leash.


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