# Detox for beginner with raw?



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I would like to begin Grimm on raw in a few months. I don't know if raw will be good for him (he has had a bacterial overgrowth following stressful events twice), and I will be open to not doing kibble if it doesn't work for him. But, how can I ensure Grimm has less of a chance of going through a tough detox or a rough switch? We live up in a high-rise on the 12th floor, and there is NO canned pumpkin here, should things get, uhh, loose.







What helps dogs have an easier switch, besides starting with only one protien source and very very slowly adding variety? What makes a dog detox or not detox? He is eating Orijen grainfree Fish.


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## BrennasMom (Mar 2, 2008)

Do you have sweet potatoes/yams over there? I believe they are an alternative to pumpkin. I don't have any other advice, I switched Brenna cold turkey (no pun intended) and she did fine. Did I mention that she is the queen of diarrhea? She had a little runny stuff behind the first couple poops but the bulk of her poo was solid, more so than it had ever been.

Do you have pepto bismol or immodium? I didn't do it when I switched, but my friend recommended giving a tiny bit of pepto when switching. I can't say one way or the other if that is good advice but it may be worth keeping some anti-diarrhea meds on hand just in case.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thanks BrennasMom, I'm scared just thinking about it-- imagine living on the 12th floor of a highrise with slowwwww elevators LOL! We have no sweet potatoes but we do have Immodium. Gosh... do most people have a difficult switch over, even using just 1 protien source (like, say, chicken RMB and some chicken MM) for a few weeks to start simply? 

How much trouble did most people have with their dogs staring? Does it help any that he's already on a premium grain-free kibble for now? I think the diarrhea/detox thing sounds scary when canned pumpkin is not available and you live in a skyscraper.


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## kallie (Sep 3, 2001)

I'm not one that really believes in the whole detox theory. As I believe any food change, including going from one kibble to the next can cause diarrhea, etc..None of my dogs had any issues when switching them over to RAW. One of my Labs, had a bit of diarrhea for about 3 days, which was easily corrected. Other than that no issues at all. However if you can get sweet potatoes, that could be an alternative to pumpkin for you 

I would be a bit cautious with the fact that your GSD has had a few bacterial overgrowth issues. I would take it very slow, and watch for any discomfort issues. Max (my GSD, who also had a bacterial overgrowth issue) can not tolerate RAW at all. He is okay with the occasional recreational RAW meaty bone, but as far as a whole diet of RAW he does not do well at all. He is fine with homecooked, just not RAW However all dogs are different, so I would defiantly give it a shot

Jen


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I didn't exactly start slow with Risa (I know better now). She had a lot of variety right off the bat. Her poop was already loose at the time because I had just brought her into my life and it was a pretty stressful time for her. I remember her first poops were DISGUSTING (Science Diet diarrhea. . .ewww). But they cleared up pretty quickly on raw. And then got really hard because I was feeding too much bone. Then I gave her too much organ and once and they were liquid. . . Yep. I made mistakes but it didn't seem to bother her too much. And, now that I know what I'm doing, she's just fine.

She also has digestive issues (sensitivity to salmon, yogurt and the occasional bout of SIBO). But does fine on raw otherwise.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

That is really good news, Jamie, it sounds like you did a great job managing Risa right from the start. A few glitches in beginning are normal I am sure. To hear that a dog who has occasional SIBO issues can do so well on raw is what I was hoping to hear.

Jen, I absolutely will keep in mind that raw may not work for Grimm. I want to keep researching and hearing from people who's dogs have had digestive issues, and how they began and managed the raw diet. Basicly, I want to try it for Grimm-- and then stay with the raw diet forever for him. But again, if he does not do well on raw, I would absolutely accept that and feed a premium grain-free.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Hey Patti, last night, I was just reading a back issue of Whole Dog Journal (wow, what a dog nerd I am), and I read about Manuka honey from New Zealand. The article was expounding on the benefits of raw honey in general, but Manuka is supposed to be, well, the bees' knees.









Here's the deal: according to WDJ, this stuff has more than 20 years of research behind it, and it has been shown to naturally destroy all sorts of harmful bacteria including some found in the stomach AND has been found useful for GI and digestive problems. 

"Wow," I said to myself (since Camper, Boni, and Dh were sleeping and weren't listening to me...not that they ever listen to me!). "I wonder if this would be helpful to Grimm?" 

And now that you're looking at trying out raw again, would this be particularly helpful now? 

Here's a webpage that WDJ offered: http://www.manukahoneyusa.com

Since it comes from New Zealand, I assume you can get it directly from the Kiwis instead of going through us Yanks first. Although, our economy could use the infusion of Euros!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

LOL 3K9Mom! What a great idea! I am going to look into ordering some from here, if that's possible. Grimm needs all the help he can get when we do the transition. I want to give Grimm the best chance at this raw switchover-- and this is a super idea! I had never heard of this before. I know people swear by using local honey for allergies, but this use against GI bacteria is so cool! Thank you for suggesting this for GrimmPiggy!









BTW, we have a secret (ok, so not anymore.. LOL) teatime ritual: He always gets to slurp a teeny drip of honey from my hand after my Earl Grey tea is made.







Then he goes straight into the livingroom-- waiting for me to come and sit down on the carpet with my back roasting on the radiator with my tea, Feisty Fido book, and Grimm chewing happily on Mr Cuz.







It's our special time. (got an auto-watch today-- YEAH!!!!)


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

(hijacking this thread for one moment to discuss honey...) 

Anybody have any thoughts on using local honey as an innoculation against airborne pollen allergy? 

My Corgi, Fanny, has seasonal allergies (late summer/fall) and I'm trying an experiment this year to see if giving her a small dose of locally-produced honey will do anything to help. I've been giving her a half teaspoon every day for the last few weeks, and plan to continue it through her allergy season. 

Is this just crazy enough to perhaps be helpful? 

(we now resume our regularly scheduled thread. beep.)


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Welcome to Thread Highjackers Anonomous.. I'm Patti, and I'm a thread highjacker, too.. it all started when..









Yup Tracy, I have a Japanese friend who takes local honey herself since moving to Salem, Oregon. The cottonwoods do a number on her. Her practitioner gives her a homeopathic blend (not sure what?) and the local honey as well. She has improved a lot with the treatment!

I hope the best for Fanny. I bet she doesn't mind the honey one bit!







Do you have an alternative vet out where you are, who could maybe help with a Chinese herbal mix? My old vet in USA mixed Chinese herb preps herself for both dogs and cats against seasonal allergies-- as well as arthritis, kidney issues, and even had an incredibly effective herbal prep against perianal fistulas. Any chance to find an alternative vet out there?


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## kallie (Sep 3, 2001)

> Quote:My Corgi, Fanny, has seasonal allergies (late summer/fall) and I'm trying an experiment this year to see if giving her a small dose of locally-produced honey will do anything to help. I've been giving her a half teaspoon every day for the last few weeks, and plan to continue it through her allergy season.


Well have you seen any changes yet? hmmm I get local honey all the time, I may have to try this on Max, as he also has seasonal allergies..Interesting..

Jen


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Ok. The Whole Dog Journal Article is in the September 2007 issue. It's a 5-page article and talks about raw honey, bee pollen, and other bee stuff and the health benefits.

It's very informative and convinced me that I need to buy * local * raw honey. My raw honey that I use right now is from Oregon. Swell. My dog won't have allergic reactions when we travel to Oregeon...

Trying to think...does he?









You can get the back issue of articles at http://www.Whole-Dog-Journal.com. I recommend this one highly.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

How was everyone else's switch from kibble to raw? Did everyone have their dogs with diarrhea, or for most was it a smooth switch? Do I need to buy tons of enzymes for the carpet in advance?


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

When I switched my 9 year old Zeus to raw he had no issues with the runs. He just transformed and spent the last 8 months of his life looking much much better than before and with more energy.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Nope....no problems here!

We stayed on chicken/bone only for 3-4 weeks though (because of possible food allergies).


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfHow was everyone else's switch from kibble to raw? Did everyone have their dogs with diarrhea, or for most was it a smooth switch? Do I need to buy tons of enzymes for the carpet in advance?


Oh fine, hijack the thread away from the honey hijack.









We did fine enough. Nothing that endangered the carpet. I kind of got overzealous with the RMB and had some runny poop. Based on what I had read, I started out with too much bone and not enough MM. I wish I knew upfront what balance of MM/RMB I needed. (I think every dog's system has its own preferred ratio.)

Once I got the right balance, we were great though.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Yes, we had pudding poos, not diarrhea for a few days, but it may have been from overfeeding. I also started Innova Evo at the time(thinking the "closest to raw"*their description* kibble would help to ease the transition) and that food may have been too rich. I fed only chx 1/4's to start...then turkey necks and ground turkey, now it is as much variety as I can find at a good price!


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

Hi Brightelf,

My pup had several bouts of 'dire rear' while on raw when she was younger, and always for the slightest reasons. A little too much, a little too fatty, a wee too rich (e.g OM), or moving on too soon with variety. It would always make me feel awful because she would go through the night needing to poop several times, and always having to start from Square One with boiled chicken & rice. 

What you could do is offer boiled chicken meat and some parboiled chicken meat. When Grimm is OK with medium rare chicken, add some raw chicken RMBs along with the parboiled meat. Phase out the cooked chicken when he is doing good with parboiled chicken, and then eventually phase out the medium rare chicken while increasing the raw chicken. 

This is how I dealt with my pup and her sensitive stomach when she had bouts of liquid or pudding poo. And some pudding poo is to be expected. This method works for my baby to avoid the 75% kibble, 25% raw method thingy.

Good luck, and let us know how Grimm does!


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom (I think every dog's system has its own preferred ratio.)


I totally agree! Levi gets a higher ratio of MM to RMB than Leyna.


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

I have switched adults and pups cold turkey (no pun intended) and never had a problem. I also find mine tolerate a variety of foods pretty quickly. 

I think the biggest mistake people make is feeding too much, feeding too much fat and not feeding enough bone.

If you start with chicken, take a chicken quarter and cut off the excess fat and most of the skin. This usually helps prevent the runs from too much fat. Pork spare ribs are nice as they have soft bones and they are not too fatty. They usually balance a meaty meal well. I personally don't feed my dogs more than an average of 1 1/2 lbs per day. Some days more and other days less depending what I feed.


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## JulesMichy (Feb 15, 2008)

Actually, my mom's dog had the runs on kibble and absolutely none when he switched to raw. lol


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Tales from the raw-feeding trenches! Thank you all.







I can get some things here easier than in USA (bags of turkey hearts, beef heart, lung, white raw tripe) but some stuff I cannot get such as chix quarters and backs, and canned pumpkin. I don't want to add kibble at all. I can add probiotics, but an unsure about brands of doggy enzymes here-- or if I need them? 

Thank you for the stories and reports-- all will come in handy for starting Grimm on a good diet. He has a 3 week stint at send-away training coming up in a week or two, and after that, I will give his system a month or so to rest.... and then begin his raw with just chicken-- maybe skin pulled off sometimes, to keep fat content lower for the transitional period. (it's that 12th floor of highrise with slow elevators thing.. LOL)


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

There have only been a couple occasions when Ris had _I have to go NOW_ diarrhea. Once was when she was sick with SIBO (and I didn't know it yet) and I waited a minute or two too long to take her out.







Another time was after eating about a pound of pork from a shoulder roast (no bone). It was a bit too fatty for her at the time and she was pulling on lead to get outside. Then she started 'assuming the position' in the hallway. . .and I started running down the stairs with her!


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

I know this is totally OT, but I wonder what Grimm thinks of the elevator! Probably some kinda magic box ... "Oh gosh, I go in and I get teleported to the Outside World! And when we head back into the Magic Box again, it takes us back home!"


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Actually, our building is HUGE with so many people-- many of them elderly who get food delivered, and also working folks all dressed up for classy jobs. So, the elevator always has lots of different scents each time we go in.

Grimm would say:

"Me love Magic Bouncing Stink Box! OH, YAH! Many diff'rent stinks! Goes up, goes dowwwn! Yes! Each time, diff'rent stinks! Can be perfume, can be soup, can be pizza! Can be stinky hairspray smell! Never know what stink each time go in box-- cooool!!"










Actually, we went to a JC Penney in USA and practiced going up and down , in and out in an elevator before we moved here.







Grimm's biggest thrill with the elevator is when people get on at different floors, and he gets to use his eyes on them to flirt, grinning, doing the head-tilt/paw-lift "see how cute I am" thing until they comment or ask to pet His Royal Heiney.









Jamie yeah... gosh, when they start to "assume the position" you think "Please no.. please no... not here in the hallway... right in front of the busybody lil ol' lady neighbor with 3 gossip hotlines...." LOL!


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Ris LOVES the elevator in our apartment building. She used to be afraid of it but now. . .it's a happy box (as long as no one's in there with us. . .then it's scary). If I take her in through the front entrance she will pull towards the elevator as we pass it just hoping we're going to take it. About the only time we take it is when her back is bothering her as stairs aggrevate it.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

We LOVE elevators too....except we're not so sure about the 3- story high glass elevator at the mall. 

Uh, Mom? We're floating!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfHow was everyone else's switch from kibble to raw? Did everyone have their dogs with diarrhea, or for most was it a smooth switch? Do I need to buy tons of enzymes for the carpet in advance?


No problems. One day they were on kibble, the next eating raw. No upset tummies, no diarrhea. My dogs were used to getting some real food anyhow since they have always hunted the field mice when we were haying.


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## sergekel (Mar 26, 2005)

We never had any problem switching. Before switching, I'd let their tummy have a rest, so I'd not feed for either a day (if they were older) or have them skip 1 meal if puppies. Then I'd give them a small amount of raw food. The next meal time I'd increase how much and probably by the next meal, they would have a full raw meal. 

I've also never had any kind of bad reaction. I've been feeding this way for about 12years The only thing that gives us trouble is the marrow from marrow bones gives mine gas and sometimes diarrhea. But not the food.

I've never given enzymes. I do give some kelp here and there and fish oil or some other fatty acid/DHA..whatever I have around. I had problems with skin before and it seems like adding in the fatty acids fixed that up. No problems since.


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