# Wendelin Farms in Quebec



## mattishere

Hello to all of my lovely friends here on this forum. I have come across Christina in my search of finding a good breeder. I have heard many great reviews and other awful ones of the dog they received from her. The great ones varied from "amazing dog, super companion, awesome service, knowledgeable breeder, etc" the negative reviews have usually been about her dogs having anxiety. So here comes the glorious question I have for you all, what are your experiences with Wendelin Farms? 

As well, I have a question for anyone who has knowledge of breeding; are back to back litters to one female unhealthy for the female and her pups? And should a breeder really be doing 2+ litters a year per female? Someone told me it can cause stress on the female and the pups which creates Anxiety. 

No hate, genuinely considering them, just want your opinion on them. I hope this is not seen or taken the wrong way. Talking to Christina has been lovely!


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## ChickiefromTN

mattishere said:


> Hello to all of my lovely friends here on this forum. I have come across Christina in my search of finding a good breeder. I have heard many great reviews and other awful ones of the dog they received from her. The great ones varied from "amazing dog, super companion, awesome service, knowledgeable breeder, etc" the negative reviews have usually been about her dogs having anxiety. So here comes the glorious question I have for you all, what are your experiences with Wendelin Farms?
> 
> As well, I have a question for anyone who has knowledge of breeding; are back to back litters to one female unhealthy for the female and her pups? And should a breeder really be doing 2+ litters a year per female? Someone told me it can cause stress on the female and the pups which creates Anxiety.
> 
> No hate, genuinely considering them, just want your opinion on them. I hope this is not seen or taken the wrong way. Talking to Christina has been lovely!


I don't have any experience with Wendelin. On your question of back to back breeding, current research shows that back to back breeding is actually best for the female as long as she is not having difficulty whelping or caring for the pups. If she has difficulty bouncing back then it may be best to skip a heat.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Bearshandler

There’s a bunch of different opinions on this. Some will say back to back are best because every time they go through a heat without being bred, their body attacks the uterus. It’s one of the arguments for spaying females that aren’t going to be bred as well. There are arguments the other way too. I would recommend you ask Christine and see if you like her answer. My knowledge of wendelin farms is they can produce some sharp, higher aggression dogs. I’m not saying all their dogs come out this way, just the reputation that I know of them.


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## mattishere

ChickiefromTN said:


> I don't have any experience with Wendelin. On your question of back to back breeding, current research shows that back to back breeding is actually best for the female as long as she is not having difficulty whelping or caring for the pups. If she has difficulty bouncing back then it may be best to skip a heat.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Alright thank you! I have another option for a litter that will be born in March from a breeder that will be breeding his female to Irck de la Hutte du Berger. This will be his B litter. His first litter best female went to a recommended breeder called Ulfheim, I contacted her and she sent me to this guy because she no longer breeds. Is getting a dog from a newer breeder a good idea? He trains his own dogs and titles them, DM clear, I can DM you more info if you wish with the Pedigree.


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## mattishere

Bearshandler said:


> There’s a bunch of different opinions on this. Some will say back to back are best because every time they go through a heat without being bred, their body attacks the uterus. It’s one of the arguments for spaying females that aren’t going to be bred as well. There are arguments the other way too. I would recommend you ask Christine and see if you like her answer. My knowledge of wendelin farms is they can produce some sharp, higher aggression dogs. I’m not saying all their dogs come out this way, just the reputation that I know of them.


okay thank you. Question for you then, I explained this a bit more in the above reply, but do you think giving new breeders a shot is a good idea or stick to the well respected ones? I can DM you more info.


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## Pytheis

mattishere said:


> okay thank you. Question for you then, I explained this a bit more in the above reply, but do you think giving new breeders a shot is a good idea or stick to the well respected ones? I can DM you more info.


Well respected breeders had to start somewhere too. I wouldn’t worry about going to a newer breeder if they: have the appropriate health tests, work the dog(s) they’re breeding, have a reputable breeder mentoring them, otherwise tick all your boxes. Just being new doesn’t mean anything bad.


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## mattishere

Pytheis said:


> Well respected breeders had to start somewhere too. I wouldn’t worry about going to a newer breeder if they: have the appropriate health tests, work the dog(s) they’re breeding, have a reputable breeder mentoring them, otherwise tick all your boxes. Just being new doesn’t mean anything bad.


They do not have a reputable breeder mentoring them, but he titles his female, a well known breeder recommended him, does DM testing and DM clear (N/N), all puppies are CKC registered, and seems super excited for the litter.


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## Jax08

My understanding is the most up to date science is saying it's best to breed your female back to back. I know several Wendelin dogs and have liked them all. However, she does breed heavy on the Czech lines so I don't doubt that some are sharper which would translate into "anxiety".

Are you willing to import a dog? I know of a litter that should be super nice.


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## mattishere

Jax08 said:


> My understanding is the most up to date science is saying it's best to breed your female back to back. I know several Wendelin dogs and have liked them all. However, she does breed heavy on the Czech lines so I don't doubt that some are sharper which would translate into "anxiety".
> 
> Are you willing to import a dog? I know of a litter that should be super nice.


Not interested in import. Sorry. 

I feel like all of the local breeders that are "good" or MANY of them are just glorified puppy mills. I am really interested in going with this guy who is new. Let me DM/PM you something!


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## Jax08

Regarding new breeders - it's pretty common in our sport for a person to breed their titled female without being a "breeder" by our definition. So yes, I would not hesitate to buy a puppy from someone like that if I liked the dogs.


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## Bearshandler

It all comes down to the dogs involved at the end of the day. You don’t need to pm me the pedigree. Feel free to post it if you want. There are other people here who can tell you more about it than me.


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## mattishere

Bearshandler said:


> It all comes down to the dogs involved at the end of the day. You don’t need to pm me the pedigree. Feel free to post it if you want. There are other people here who can tell you more about it than me.


I messaged Jax, she said the Grandmother of the female being bred can bring aggression.

Éos vom Haus Bergblick – working-dog This is the female

And here are the two possible sires.
Bordy - Bordy Blendy – working-dog

Irck - Irck de la Hutte du Berger – working-dog

EDITED


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## Bearshandler

What do you want this dog for? What is your experience level with shepherds and other high power dogs?


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## mattishere

Bearshandler said:


> What do you want this dog for? What is your experience level with shepherds and other high power dogs?


Companion mostly, going to be doing lots of exercise and training with them. I am interested in doing some obedience training, scent and personal protection stuff for fun, but not going to compete or anything.


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## Jax08

I said the grandsire on the bottom - Kinski - bring aggression  And I'm a she


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## mattishere

Jax08 said:


> I said the grandsire on the bottom - Kinski - bring aggression  And I'm a she


My apologies!

Edited above message. I am sorry


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## Jax08

I'm not upset. It always amuses me when people think I'm a man on here.


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## Kazel

Back to back is healthier for the uterus and pyo risk but that doesn’t necessarily translate to being healthier for the bitch overall. She must be back in good shape and recovered well from the previous pregnancy. So if a female had a large litter recently and is still not back to her ideal then she shouldn’t be bred again if she comes back into heat before she’s back to ideal. Some dogs have a decent amount of time in between heats so back to back for one dog isn’t the same as back to back for another. Along with considerations like how well they did during pregnancy and pup number. It isn’t as simple as one is better than the other there are a lot of variables that go into. Also how many times they’re back to back breeding. If they’re breeding their female every heat cycle from 2-10 probably not a good breeder. 

Also recently I’ve seen a ton of posts about calcium supplementation. If a female needs a ton of supplementation of calcium ignoring that potential issue I’d be more so worried about that dog going on to be bred again soon, as in shortly after weaning pups.


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## mattishere

Kazel said:


> Back to back is healthier for the uterus and pyo risk but that doesn’t necessarily translate to being healthier for the bitch overall. She must be back in good shape and recovered well from the previous pregnancy. So if a female had a large litter recently and is still not back to her ideal then she shouldn’t be bred again if she comes back into heat before she’s back to ideal. Some dogs have a decent amount of time in between heats so back to back for one dog isn’t the same as back to back for another. Along with considerations like how well they did during pregnancy and pup number. It isn’t as simple as one is better than the other there are a lot of variables that go into. Also how many times they’re back to back breeding. If they’re breeding their female every heat cycle from 2-10 probably not a good breeder.
> 
> Also recently I’ve seen a ton of posts about calcium supplementation. If a female needs a ton of supplementation of calcium ignoring that potential issue I’d be more so worried about that dog going on to be bred again soon, as in shortly after weaning pups.


This is very interesting, thank you.


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## Bearshandler

mattishere said:


> Companion mostly, going to be doing lots of exercise and training with them. I am interested in doing some obedience training, scent and personal protection stuff for fun, but not going to compete or anything.


Do you have any previous experience? What type of dog is it that you like?


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## mattishere

Bearshandler said:


> Do you have any previous experience? What type of dog is it that you like?


I have been with GSD for the last couple years, friends have them and have learnt a lot about them, basically live with one right now haha since I am always over at their house. 

Type of dog I like? I really just want a confident ready to go GSD. Be able to go on hikes, swimming, dock diving, obedience, scent work etc. Nothing competitive but be able to try different things. But the most important thing is the want and drive to do things with me as much as I will with it and to have a great bond I suppose.


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## Bearshandler

@wolfstraum @UnlimitedGSD


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## mattishere

Bearshandler said:


> @wolfstraum @UnlimitedGSD


Though I have talked to Unlimited, she gets 100's of emails and any dog from her would be great but I have no chance of getting an upcoming pup anytime soon.

I am not sure who Wolfstraum is, are they a breeder? (edit - seems to be located in the USA. I am not interested in imports but thank you)


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## Bearshandler

mattishere said:


> Though I have talked to Unlimited, she gets 100's of emails and any dog from her would be great but I have no chance of getting an upcoming pup anytime soon.
> 
> I am not sure who Wolfstraum is, are they a breeder?


She is a breeder as well. They would have a better idea than me of what to expect from these breedings, especially since of them used the same sire. To me it seems like a lot of dog for you. I could be wrong though, they would know better. What are the shepherds you are around like?


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## mattishere

Bearshandler said:


> She is a breeder as well. They would have a better idea than me of what to expect from these breedings, especially since of them used the same sire. To me it seems like a lot of dog for you. I could be wrong though, they would know better. What are the shepherds you are around like?


The one I am around is a Canadian Showline. She is crazy, super lazy until she gets moving and playing. She isnt very well trained outside though and jumps all over you. I still really like her though. She has a really high prey drive and in fact killed one of their cats. Her dad was a very aggressive dog and the litter should never have happened. But she is very sweet to people when she gets to know you.


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## gsdsteve

I have no doubt that Christine would be able to pick the right pup for you based on your plans for the dog! She would be my pick for a breeder in that area.


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## mattishere

gsdsteve said:


> I have no doubt that Christine would be able to pick the right pup for you based on your plans for the dog! She would be my pick for a breeder in that area.


I worry about the anxiety. I want to be able to do Personal Protection but also be able to not worry if the dog has to go to a boarding for a day or so if something happens. I need a really well balanced dog.


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## cagal

If you PM me I can give you some input. Not personal with Wendelin but I was given excellent advice by a breeder in the Ottawa area who only breeds one litter if that a year. She was incredibly helpful and it really helped me with my search. There are a lot of options if you know where to start.


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## mattishere

cagal said:


> If you PM me I can give you some input. Not personal with Wendelin but I was given excellent advice by a breeder in the Ottawa area who only breeds one litter if that a year. She was incredibly helpful and it really helped me with my search. There are a lot of options if you know where to start.


PMing right now.


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## Fodder

Jax08 said:


> I'm not upset. It always amuses me when people think I'm a man on here.


same.


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## UnlimitedGSD

Back to back is fine - I won't comment on Wendelin. PM me if you want my opinion.


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## mattishere

UnlimitedGSD said:


> Back to back is fine - I won't comment on Wendelin. PM me if you want my opinion.


PMing


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## WNGD

Fodder said:


> same.


I don't care whether members are male or female here. But some of the women on here are baddies......


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## mattishere

WNGD said:


> I don't care whether members are male or female here. But some of the women on here are baddies......


Bad what? tell us LOL

jk jk


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## Chip Blasiole

Good luck finding someone who isn’t clueless about PP training, plus you need a very special dog to have a good one. Lot of hacks training poor quality dogs.


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## Rionel

On Wendelin, I have no first hand experience with them, but like the info they provide. Ultimately, seeing the sire/dam pairing and litter firsthand is the only way I'll buy dogs, and they're geographically out of range for me to do that.

On the breeding question, it's a little more involved than rule of thumb answers.I have always subscribed to 'every other heat' cycle for bitches to breed, and only if they're younger than six years old. Studs can continue longer. And, that was the philosophy of the breeder I acquired my female from, who was well established in animal husbandry in general , not just dogs. 

You might pick up a copy of "The Complete Book Of Dog Breeding" by Dan Rice, D.V.M. In it he states the same preference of the every other heat model. When you factor in that some litters are 5 pups, and some are 10 pups, knowing exactly how much stress the bitch has gone thru, as well as knowing how well all internals have repaired and ready to carry a healthy litter becomes more difficult. Rice also notes that as the bitch ages, the litters can become smaller, but with larger pups, and that translates to more whelping stress on the female. IMO, anything more of a brood bitch is out of disregard for her health, and more likely greed. Dogs are not machines.


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## Sabis mom

Jax08 said:


> I'm not upset. It always amuses me when people think I'm a man on here.


If that amuses you, people think I'm a man all the time. And my screen name has MOM in it.

On the Wendelin question, I know a couple of people who have Wendelin dogs and they are great dogs. Strictly pets and just really nice all around dogs.


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## mattishere

Sabis mom said:


> If that amuses you, people think I'm a man all the time. And my screen name has MOM in it.
> 
> On the Wendelin question, I know a couple of people who have Wendelin dogs and they are great dogs. Strictly pets and just really nice all around dogs.


I am very much against wendelin after everything I have heard through PM's. Thank you though! I found some actually 2 I am interested in, just waiting on timing on my end for who I go with.


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## Sabis mom

mattishere said:


> I worry about the anxiety. I want to be able to do Personal Protection but also be able to not worry if the dog has to go to a boarding for a day or so if something happens. I need a really well balanced dog.


I'm guessing you are in Ontario but not sure where


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## mattishere

Sabis mom said:


> I'm guessing you are in Ontario but not sure where


Near Ottawa!


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## Saphire

Fraserglen’s has a litter due next week.


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## mattishere

Saphire said:


> Fraserglen’s has a litter due next week.


I am not ready to get a puppy that soon, just trying to talk to breeders. Plus, I have not gotten a response from Sheena in a week and a bit now. Though she is an option... Some people are telling me to stay away because they do not title their dogs.


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## Sabis mom

mattishere said:


> Near Ottawa!


That is what I thought. If you are interested in PP reach out to Shield K9. They are way down by Kitchener, I think, but may have some thoughts for you. And will give you good info.
As for breeders, sounds like you have made a decision.
Next time I head for Ottawa I will give you a shout.


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## mattishere

Sabis mom said:


> That is what I thought. If you are interested in PP reach out to Shield K9. They are way down by Kitchener, I think, but may have some thoughts for you. And will give you good info.
> As for breeders, sounds like you have made a decision.
> Next time I head for Ottawa I will give you a shout.


For sure! Actually, one of the breeders I am talking to is in Quebec, the other is not far from where I live.


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## Bearshandler

I think you may be benefit from asking other people here what they like and want in a dog and what they don’t. That will help you figure out what you want in a dog I think, and help you find a breeder. It may sound like some of our dogs are similar, but I there sometimes is a word of difference.


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## mattishere

Bearshandler said:


> I think you may be benefit from asking other people here what they like and want in a dog and what they don’t. That will help you figure out what you want in a dog I think, and help you find a breeder. It may sound like some of our dogs are similar, but I there sometimes is a word of difference.


Question, is the off switch needed in a good workingline? Breeder says the female she is breeding has no off switch but a good family dog, I asked for more info but what is your opinion?


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## WNGD

"No off switch" is code for stay away for a novice owner imo


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## Bearshandler

mattishere said:


> Question, is the off switch needed in a good workingline? Breeder says the female she is breeding has no off switch but a good family dog, I asked for more info but what is your opinion?


Depends on what your definition of an off switch and good working line is. I wouldn’t say it’s needed, but it’s a flaw to not be able to settle in my opinion. My dogs live inside with me. They need to relax when I want them to.


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## mattishere

WNGD said:


> "No off switch" is code for stay away for a novice owner imo


Appreciate it! Thanks


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## mattishere

Bearshandler said:


> Depends on what your definition of an off switch and good working line is. I wouldn’t say it’s needed, but it’s a flaw to not be able to settle in my opinion. My dogs live inside with me. They need to relax when I want them to.


I agree completely!


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## Saphire

Off switch is VERY important to me. My dog didn’t have until 10-12 months and I found it difficult.


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## mattishere

Saphire said:


> Off switch is VERY important to me. My dog didn’t have until 10-12 months and I found it difficult.


Agreed 1000x


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## David Winners

Valor has had one from the start. I sometimes wonder if his good behavior in the car and off switch has anything to do with his long trip home.


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## mattishere

David Winners said:


> Valor has had one from the start. I sometimes wonder if his good behavior in the car and off switch has anything to do with his long trip home.


I have learnt a lot from this post actually David. The amount of people that have contacted me... it surprised me.

[Edit: Comments removed by Moderator] Edit by Matt - DM me if you want my opinion on the breeder. 

Good breeders like Fraserglen as well as I am sure many others, you get dogs that are naturally confident and ready to go. All of the dogs coming from Fraserglen... not one has been ridden of anxiety, all confident and collected.


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## Chip Blasiole

IMO, the term off switch is very poorly operationally defined in term of behavior and from an ethological POV. Some dogs need to have training and maturity in order to settle. Some dogs are less high drive. Some dogs are hyperactive due to training and or genetics. It is not as black and white as a dog having an “off switch” which really has no meaning. Some dogs don’t have any leadership or their handlers have no or poor commitment to training. Hyperactivity and drive are not the same thing but can look similar in young pups. Impulse control, native intelligence, training and environmental factors all contribute to a dog’s behavior. I see a lot of nice dogs who have been trained to have hectic drive. Some dogs are genetically hectic. I would say that in general, a pup that has a so called off switch at an early age is a lower prey drive dog. That doesn’t equate with a dog that is lacking. It depends on your goals with the dog. Also, some dogs/lines don’t show strong prey drive until they are a few months old and occasionally even later.


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## Jen84

mattishere said:


> I have learnt a lot from this post actually David. The amount of people that have contacted me... it surprised me.
> 
> [Edit: Comments removed by Moderator] Edit by Matt - DM me if you want my opinion on the breeder.
> 
> Good breeders like Fraserglen as well as I am sure many others, you get dogs that are naturally confident and ready to go. All of the dogs coming from Fraserglen... not one has been ridden of anxiety, all confident and collected.


Can anyone here tell me what normal versus abnormal anxiety looks like in German Shepherd? This isn't a trick question. Just curious what criteria or behaviors people are using to label a dog anxious.


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## Chip Blasiole

If you have a GSD that is displaying behaviors that you think are abnormal anxiety, describe them and you will get a more reliable answer to your question. Solid pups show little to no fear about basic things such as a broom falling next to them or smacking the ground when doing bite work. If they do, it is quickly extinguished with good training.


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## David Winners

Chip Blasiole said:


> IMO, the term off switch is very poorly operationally defined in term of behavior and from an ethological POV. Some dogs need to have training and maturity in order to settle. Some dogs are less high drive. Some dogs are hyperactive due to training and or genetics. It is not as black and white as a dog having an “off switch” which really has no meaning. Some dogs don’t have any leadership or their handlers have no or poor commitment to training. Hyperactivity and drive are not the same thing but can look similar in young pups. Impulse control, native intelligence, training and environmental factors all contribute to a dog’s behavior. I see a lot of nice dogs who have been trained to have hectic drive. Some dogs are genetically hectic. I would say that in general, a pup that has a so called off switch at an early age is a lower prey drive dog. That doesn’t equate with a dog that is lacking. It depends on your goals with the dog. Also, some dogs/lines don’t show strong prey drive until they are a few months old and occasionally even later.


I agree with this somewhat, with the exception of lack of prey drive. 

I have 2 GSDs. Both get the same amount of activity and have the same training, for the most part. [email protected] months, [email protected] years. Valor can run the older dog into the ground on a hike or retrieving. Valor has far more prey drive, hits a tug harder, is much snapper in OB, and is more forward to a threat. He is not hectic but could be if trained poorly. The older dog is far more active in the house and needs management, place command / kennel. Valor will just chill, because it's time to chill, unless the older dog won't leave him alone.

That's what I mean about an off switch.


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## mattishere

Jen84 said:


> Can anyone here tell me what normal versus abnormal anxiety looks like in German Shepherd? This isn't a trick question. Just curious what criteria or behaviors people are using to label a dog anxious.


reactive to things


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## Jax08

mattishere said:


> reactive to things


Reactive in what way? Reactive to what? Are they able to recover? Do they have high suspicion but are able to still be stable? Or are you just talking crap nerves and fear that can't leave their homes? What do you consider "anxious" that is unacceptable? Btw...the term is actually "nerve" not anxious.


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## Chip Blasiole

David,
There are so many variables just like peoples’ temperament/ personalities. And each dog’s prey drive is in comparison to every other dog. There is threshold to prey, how a dog’s eyes reveal his prey drive, extinction of prey with some dogs motivated to go all day long and some coming down in drive fairly quickly. I just thing the term off switch has become non useful jargon.


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## mattishere

Jax08 said:


> Reactive in what way? Reactive to what? Are they able to recover? Do they have high suspicion but are able to still be stable? Or are you just talking crap nerves and fear that can't leave their homes? What do you consider "anxious" that is unacceptable? Btw...the term is actually "nerve" not anxious.


They recover, most do I think. Very crappy nerves and fear people


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## David Winners

Chip Blasiole said:


> David,
> There are so many variables just like peoples’ temperament/ personalities. And each dog’s prey drive is in comparison to every other dog. There is threshold to prey, how a dog’s eyes reveal his prey drive, extinction of prey with some dogs motivated to go all day long and some coming down in drive fairly quickly. I just thing the term off switch has become non useful jargon.


Sure, the ability or tendency to chill comes from different places. Perspective matters, as I'm often in need of reminding. Common vernacular tends to lead to common conversation, and in some ways is necessary to graduate to uncommon conversation.

Motivation is clear and obvious to an experienced trainer, but eludes most until they have the opportunity to learn dogs. Settling in the house means a thing that comes from different places. When you don't understand those places, it's just a thing.


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## wolfstraum

mattishere said:


> I messaged Jax, she said the Grandmother of the female being bred can bring aggression.
> 
> Éos vom Haus Bergblick – working-dog This is the female
> 
> And here are the two possible sires.
> Bordy - Bordy Blendy – working-dog
> 
> Irck - Irck de la Hutte du Berger – working-dog
> 
> EDITED


I had a female by Eyko Morfelder land - super temperament, solid solid nerves.....however, there IS one element of the pedigree here ) which can give you rather unstable aggression....depending on how the genes shake out and what combo she will be used with! I can see alot of aggression in both males pedigrees....

As far as the males? One misses alot I have been told....and the other left Europe due to high percentages of poor hip production....again, what I am hearing from others who have pups from him or were contemplating getting pups.

EDIT: Sorry - did not read whole conversation before posting.....can't seem to delete this

Lee


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## Jen84

Chip Blasiole said:


> If you have a GSD that is displaying behaviors that you think are abnormal anxiety, describe them and you will get a more reliable answer to your question. Solid pups show little to no fear about basic things such as a broom falling next to them or smacking the ground when doing bite work. If they do, it is quickly extinguished with good training.


I'm just trying to understand what exactly it is that people are saying about Wendelin producing "anxious" dogs. There is another known and very experienced breeder in southern Ontario that titles her own breeding stock and I've heard people say that she too produces "anxious" dogs. Sure, with the amount of dogs these two breeders produce, there is bound to be a few imperfect dogs. But to say that in general they are producing "anxious" dogs is very hard to believe.

I am just wondering if people are using terms loosely and not really understanding those terms. Are we talking about outright fear, sharpness, threshold, nerves, mistrust, suspicion, drives, or a dog getting excited in the truck as you approach their favorite park?

I am just really curious to know what sort of behaviors are people seeing that they would slap a label on that dog as being "anxious".





mattishere said:


> ello to all of my lovely friends here on this forum. I have come across Christina in my search of finding a good breeder. I have heard many great reviews and other awful ones of the dog they received from her. The great ones varied from "amazing dog, super companion, awesome service, knowledgeable breeder, etc" *the negative reviews have usually been about her dogs having anxiety.* So here comes the glorious question I have for you all, what are your experiences with Wendelin Farms?





Jax08 said:


> However, she does breed heavy on the Czech lines so I don't doubt that some are *sharper which would translate into "anxiety".*





mattishere said:


> *I worry about the anxiety*. I want to be able to do Personal Protection but also be able to not worry if the dog has to go to a boarding for a day or so if something happens. I need a really well balanced dog.





mattishere said:


> Good breeders like Fraserglen as well as I am sure many others, you get dogs that are naturally confident and ready to go. *All of the dogs coming from Fraserglen... not one has been ridden of anxiety, all confident and collected.*


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## Jen84

mattishere said:


> reactive to things





mattishere said:


> They recover, most do I think. Very crappy nerves and fear people


So you are saying that the dogs you've heard of as being labeled as "anxious" are:

-reactive but recover - startle and recover ?
- they fear people and have crappy nerves

What do you mean when you say they fear people? The are hiding behind the couch when someone shows up at the door?


----------



## Bearshandler

Jen84 said:


> So you are saying that the dogs you've heard of as being labeled as "anxious" are:
> 
> -reactive but recover - startle and recover ?
> - they fear people and have crappy nerves
> 
> What do you mean when you say they fear people? The are hiding behind the couch when someone shows up at the door?





Jen84 said:


> I'm just trying to understand what exactly it is that people are saying about Wendelin producing "anxious" dogs. There is another known and very experienced breeder in southern Ontario that titles her own breeding stock and I've heard people say that she too produces "anxious" dogs. Sure, with the amount of dogs these two breeders produce, there is bound to be a few imperfect dogs. But to say that in general they are producing "anxious" dogs is very hard to believe.
> 
> I am just wondering if people are using terms loosely and not really understanding those terms. Are we talking about outright fear, sharpness, threshold, nerves, mistrust, suspicion, drives, or a dog getting excited in the truck as you approach their favorite park?
> 
> I am just really curious to know what sort of behaviors are people seeing that they would slap a label on that dog as being "anxious".


Replies like thes make it hard to have honest conversations about dogs and breeders.


----------



## Jen84

Bearshandler said:


> Replies like thes make it hard to have honest conversations about dogs and breeders.


Why is that?


----------



## Bearshandler

Jen84 said:


> Why is that?


If you don’t understand what it means when certain terms are used, that’s one thing. This comes off as an attack on these opinions. Some of these were questions asked looking for more clarification or information. Your responses are as if you take offense to things being said.


----------



## Jen84

Bearshandler said:


> If you don’t understand what it means when certain terms are used, that’s one thing. This comes off as an attack on these opinions. Some of these were questions asked looking for more clarification or information. Your responses are as if you take offense to things being said.


Well I apologize to you, @mattishere, and anyone else who was offended by my replies. I didn't mean to attack anyone. I'm seriously trying to understand what behaviours are people seeing in German Shepherds that they would label a dog as having "anxiety". What sort of traits are breeders producing that you can say that these are anxious dogs? Separation anxiety?


----------



## rotdocpa1

I have a female out of haakons full brother Gerry morfelder land son can speak a little to the bitch lines. Social , hi drive, very intense, very stable with the family, no handler or food aggression. However does not slow down much and would be a lot for a first time buyer.


----------



## Bearshandler

Jen84 said:


> Well I apologize to you, @mattishere, and anyone else who was offended by my replies. I didn't mean to attack anyone. I'm seriously trying to understand what behaviours are people seeing in German Shepherds that they would label a dog as having "anxiety". What sort of traits are breeders producing that you can say that these are anxious dogs? Separation anxiety?


Someone said earlier what he probably means is nervy.


----------



## WNGD

How many of these "anxious" dogs that some breeders are producing come from novice/poor or anxious owners as well? 

We have a friend who is very anxious around large dogs. Guess what? Her kids are very anxious around large dogs; she has transferred her anxiousness to her kids and you can also do that to dogs.


----------



## mattishere

Jen84 said:


> Well I apologize to you, @mattishere, and anyone else who was offended by my replies. I didn't mean to attack anyone. I'm seriously trying to understand what behaviours are people seeing in German Shepherds that they would label a dog as having "anxiety". What sort of traits are breeders producing that you can say that these are anxious dogs? Separation anxiety?


I am not upset, no worries friend. 

Let me put something out there. You can say a breeder has a ton of dogs and a few turn out bad, but what if its the opposite and few turn out good? This is not directed to anyone... but some people I have talked to say a breeder is good and they have anxiety. Sooner or later even bad dogs will possibly give good off spring. Finding the right breeder is difficult :/


----------



## mattishere

Jen84 said:


> So you are saying that the dogs you've heard of as being labeled as "anxious" are:
> 
> -reactive but recover - startle and recover ?
> - they fear people and have crappy nerves
> 
> What do you mean when you say they fear people? The are hiding behind the couch when someone shows up at the door?


Essentially. Look up nervy gsd


----------



## mattishere

Jen84 said:


> I'm just trying to understand what exactly it is that people are saying about Wendelin producing "anxious" dogs. There is another known and very experienced breeder in southern Ontario that titles her own breeding stock and I've heard people say that she too produces "anxious" dogs. Sure, with the amount of dogs these two breeders produce, there is bound to be a few imperfect dogs. But to say that in general they are producing "anxious" dogs is very hard to believe.
> 
> I am just wondering if people are using terms loosely and not really understanding those terms. Are we talking about outright fear, sharpness, threshold, nerves, mistrust, suspicion, drives, or a dog getting excited in the truck as you approach their favorite park?
> 
> I am just really curious to know what sort of behaviors are people seeing that they would slap a label on that dog as being "anxious".


When I was talking nerves I was talking about, getting scared of little things, etc.


----------



## Jax08

Jen84 said:


> I'm just trying to understand what exactly it is that people are saying about Wendelin producing "anxious" dogs. There is another known and very experienced breeder in southern Ontario that titles her own breeding stock and I've heard people say that she too produces "anxious" dogs. Sure, with the amount of dogs these two breeders produce, there is bound to be a few imperfect dogs. But to say that in general they are producing "anxious" dogs is very hard to believe.
> 
> I am just wondering if people are using terms loosely and not really understanding those terms. Are we talking about outright fear, sharpness, threshold, nerves, mistrust, suspicion, drives, or a dog getting excited in the truck as you approach their favorite park?
> 
> I am just really curious to know what sort of behaviors are people seeing that they would slap a label on that dog as being "anxious".


I see you quoted me and took it out of context...so yeah.... Perhaps I should have used the word "could" instead of "would" and instead of quoting his terminology used the word "nerve". And as I stated....I like the Wendelin dogs I've met so really no need for anyone to be defensive. My point was that Czech lines generally tend to be sharp and some people could define that as "anxious" as a dog really can't be sharp without having a little nerve contributing. It's what they were bred for. 

I'm sure my definition of acceptable sharpness is not going to be the same as someone getting their first dog and wanting a hiking partner to go everywhere with them. My female is sharp and suspicious but has the nerve to keep it all under control. I'm not going to drop her into a neighborhood BBQ and expect her to be social. I'm also sure the OP would classify her as having "anxiety" because of her suspicion even though she shows no fear. 

The problem with your question to the OP is that he obviously doesn't understand sharp vs nervy if he doesn't even know the terminology and doesn't understand the varying degrees of nerve if he stated that dogs "react and recover" are "anxious". Which I why I've told him at least 3 times to go watch the dogs and meet them. It's hard to have a real opinion when you've never been exposed. 

To answer your above question - I'm well aware of what the terms mean and how to apply them.


----------



## Sabis mom

mattishere said:


> Essentially. Look up nervy gsd


Let me solve this for you. Shadow is "nervy". She relies on familiarity and routine. New stuff scares her, people scare her, bags blowing in the wind scare her. She bites when she's scared, or bolts. She is an anxious dog. 
This is a huge, massive difference from sharp or suspicious. Those things are correct in a GSD as long as they have "the nerve" to back it up.


----------



## January

Perhaps the confusion is in that certain established breeders have reputations and when sweeping generalizations are made about their puppies, such as that the majority have “anxiety” the members with GSD experience are trying to figure out where such statements are coming from. If the majority of claims are coming from novice owners who don’t have direct experience with working line shepherds prior, there is the possibility that “anxiety” is being mislabeled for what is suspicion/drive/under exercised/under stimulated/owner anxiety transference etc. The occurrence of misunderstanding from novice owners could also be higher when there are litters being produced at a much higher rate. Some breeders regularly video their litters before they are sent to their homes, such as the breeder in this discussion, and their confidence over being exposed to a variety of stimuli can be observed. This is what I understand from this discussion anyways.


----------



## Rionel

I may have missed it but I don't see "frustration" anywhere here. A dog that has performed, or is intent on reacting to perceived threats can also be frustrated and appear anxious, while being deterred by its handler.


----------



## Jen84

mattishere said:


> I am not upset, no worries friend.
> 
> Let me put something out there. You can say a breeder has a ton of dogs and a few turn out bad, but what if its the opposite and few turn out good? This is not directed to anyone... but some people I have talked to say a breeder is good and they have anxiety. Sooner or later even bad dogs will possibly give good off spring. Finding the right breeder is difficult :/


No worries Matt, glad you didn't take it the wrong way. Just wanted to point one thing out to you in case you weren't aware: the female, Éos vom Haus Bergblick, you are thinking of getting a pup from, is sired by Haakon vom Moerfelder Land - and this is one of Wendelin's studs lol.






__





Haakon | wendelinfarm







www.wendelinfarm.com


----------



## Jen84

mattishere said:


> Essentially. Look up nervy gsd


"Nervy" plus confidence, boldness, and or dominance, is a very desirable trait to some; unfortunately, not many can handle dogs like this.

Here is some information for you or anybody else that might find it useful:

Schutzhund Village - part 1

Schutzhund Village - part 2





__





DEFINE THE TERM "NERVY" DOGS - Page 1







www.pedigreedatabase.com













Dog Anxiety: What Dog Owners Need to Know


How do you know if your dog has anxiety? What can you do to treat dog anxiety? We're here to explain everything you need to know.




www.akc.org


----------



## Jen84

And just to add with what @jax was talking about regarding the old Czech lines:

_"Twenty years ago many many Czech/DDR dogs were nervy, because it was a trait bred for by the police/military complex in the Eastern bloc nations. This trait served them well in their quest for a dog needing high alert and substantial follow-up. Many vocational uses (especially police/military) do not require the absolute "full grip usually out of prey" that the sport people desire. Many nervy dogs will initially give a full grip but change to 3/4 when in fight /defense drive. My point is previous posters are right in that there are genetic and environmental reasons for nerviness. They don't make top sport dogs but many do make top police dogs....many police/military personnel feel that a touch of nerviness is needed back into the breed for their vocation. Either way a dog still needs to be clearheaded and possess courage to go with the various degrees of nerves." - _gustav AKA @cliffson1


----------



## Jen84

mattishere said:


> I am not ready to get a puppy that soon, just trying to talk to breeders. Plus, I have not gotten a response from Sheena in a week and a bit now. Though she is an option... Some people are telling me to stay away because they do not title their dogs.


I'm not sure of Carmen's relationship with Sheena at this very moment, but I know they were friends and collaborated with each other regarding breeding. I also know that Carmen prefers medium thresholds which sounds like the type of dog you're looking for.










Why is it so necessary to some to title a dog?


I listed two "great" breeders. I ,personally, don't know about "many". http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2895634-carmspack-gus-g Carmen has a developed a program for over 40 years, including some unbroken lines that go all the way back to the beginning of her...




www.germanshepherds.com


----------



## Jen84

And in regards to Wendelin and Narnia Kennels (the other breeder I mentioned that supposedly breeds "anxious" dogs), this is what the well respected @cliffson1 had to say:

*"Both breeders are asset to our breed,imo."* - @cliffson1











Working Line Pup Hunt Continues


Hi folks, I'm still on the puppy hunt. So far I've talked to the owner of Wendelin Farms and Narnia Kennels. I'll be visiting with Deep Hollow next weekend. Anyone have any personal experience with any of these breeders? I'm specifically after the working lines and have my eye on a gorgeous...




www.germanshepherds.com


----------



## mattishere

Jen84 said:


> And in regards to Wendelin and Narnia Kennels (the other breeder I mentioned that supposedly breeds "anxious" dogs), this is what the well respected @cliffson1 had to say:
> 
> *"Both breeders are asset to our breed,imo."* - @cliffson1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working Line Pup Hunt Continues
> 
> 
> Hi folks, I'm still on the puppy hunt. So far I've talked to the owner of Wendelin Farms and Narnia Kennels. I'll be visiting with Deep Hollow next weekend. Anyone have any personal experience with any of these breeders? I'm specifically after the working lines and have my eye on a gorgeous...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.germanshepherds.com


Interesting! Thank you for all the comments. Just saw these now!

I no longer am looking at Eos and Von Der Zen. Asked about the pedigree, not impressed.


----------



## violetmd

.


----------



## Fodder

violetmd said:


> Came here because I have a Wendelin pup, and she is a little shy around dogs. She's fine with all people, loud noises, trunks, fireworks etc. Her pedigree is: tinka x norik
> 
> I wonder how much is attributed to the environment vs genetics because she comes from a long line of titled IGP dogs. Surely if anxiety was a big problem her ancestors wouldn't have made it that far in IGP? I think coming from an environment with a lot of kennelled dogs contributed to her reactivity to dogs. i.e. if you grew up in a household where everyone yelled at each other, you'd think yelling was normal.


so is she shy, or reactive? the two look very different in my head, can you explain...


----------



## violetmd

.


----------



## Jax08

mattishere said:


> Interesting! Thank you for all the comments. Just saw these now!
> 
> I no longer am looking at Eos and Von Der Zen. Asked about the pedigree, not impressed.


Why are you not impressed?


----------



## Saphire

violetmd said:


> She will bark at other dogs if they are too close or stare at her for long periods. Daycare owner said she's shy around other dogs. I would call it reactive due to fear/insecurity.


As in doggy daycare for playtime?

this in itself could be the reason you’re seeing what you see.


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## Sabis mom

Saphire said:


> As in doggy daycare for playtime?
> 
> this in itself could be the reason you’re seeing what you see.


That's what I was thinking as well.

Which takes us right back to blaming a breeder for issues created by owners.

German Shepherds do not belong in doggie daycares, or dog parks, or any of the other crazy places people send them. As a rule they don't enjoy the company of random strange dogs, which makes sense since the breed was created to be partnered with a human not a pack of dogs.


----------



## January

violetmd said:


> She will bark at other dogs if they are too close or stare at her for long periods. Daycare owner said she's shy around other dogs. I would call it reactive due to fear/insecurity.


Hey there I noticed in previous posts your girl had a couple of bad encounters with dogs when she was younger. Do you think it’s a contributing factor to the behaviour? What does your trainer think? I ask not in a patronizing way but out of genuine curiosity You also mentioned that you think she was reactive from being in a kennel so could the behaviour have originated because she barked to engage the other dogs out of habit and now is trying to figure out a new reaction while you’re training it out of her? She is beautiful btw!


----------



## violetmd

.


----------



## gsdsteve

Sabis mom said:


> That's what I was thinking as well.
> 
> Which takes us right back to blaming a breeder for issues created by owners.
> 
> German Shepherds do not belong in doggie daycares, or dog parks, or any of the other crazy places people send them. As a rule they don't enjoy the company of random strange dogs, which makes sense since the breed was created to be partnered with a human not a pack of dogs.


My feelings exactly!


----------



## Saphire

violetmd said:


> Yeah that goes back to my nature vs nurture question in my first post. She is my first GSD, and I definitely made mistakes with her. She has had a few bad encounters which I completely regret, but also didn't know better at the time. Her trainer (who also runs the daycare) thinks that the best thing for her was doggie daycare to socialize her and they only put her with gentle older dogs who are good with puppies. She barked at dogs from the first day we brought her home at 8 weeks when she saw them across the street. She also did that with certain people and kids but she grew out of it and is totally okay with all humans now. That's why I think that the mistakes I made with her worsened her reactivity to dogs instead of helping her get over it. In the hands of an experienced GSD owner, she may not have an issue anymore. Wendelin breeds many litters and I'm sure that a lot of them go to new GSD owners like myself. That's something to keep in mind.


This is purely my opinion only but I’d perhaps be rethinking this trainer if doggy daycare has been recommended. I can’t think of anything beneficial to be learned in that environment.


----------



## Saphire

violetmd said:


> Yeah that goes back to my nature vs nurture question in my first post. She is my first GSD, and I definitely made mistakes with her. She has had a few bad encounters which I completely regret, but also didn't know better at the time. Her trainer (who also runs the daycare) thinks that the best thing for her was doggie daycare to socialize her and they only put her with gentle older dogs who are good with puppies. She barked at dogs from the first day we brought her home at 8 weeks when she saw them across the street. She also did that with certain people and kids but she grew out of it and is totally okay with all humans now. That's why I think that the mistakes I made with her worsened her reactivity to dogs instead of helping her get over it. In the hands of an experienced GSD owner, she may not have an issue anymore. Wendelin breeds many litters and I'm sure that a lot of them go to new GSD owners like myself. That's something to keep in mind.


We all make mistakes, it’s what we take away from those mistakes that makes us better dog owners.


----------



## January

violetmd said:


> Yeah that goes back to my nature vs nurture question in my first post. She is my first GSD, and I definitely made mistakes with her. She has had a few bad encounters which I completely regret, but also didn't know better at the time. Her trainer (who also runs the daycare) thinks that the best thing for her was doggie daycare to socialize her and they only put her with gentle older dogs who are good with puppies. She barked at dogs from the first day we brought her home at 8 weeks when she saw them across the street. She also did that with certain people and kids but she grew out of it and is totally okay with all humans now. That's why I think that the mistakes I made with her worsened her reactivity to dogs instead of helping her get over it. In the hands of an experienced GSD owner, she may not have an issue anymore. Wendelin breeds many litters and I'm sure that a lot of them go to new GSD owners like myself. That's something to keep in mind.


You sound like a wonderful loving and conscientious dog owner. I definitely don’t want to imply you’re negligent. I’m sure you’re doing the very best with the tools you have, and the longer you have her the more tools you’ll have  thank you for putting your perspective out there and opening up yourself to the mercy of the internet


----------



## Sabis mom

@violetmd I was not implying that you are a bad owner or that you did anything wrong. We only learn by making mistakes.
I was simply theorizing that perhaps breeders bear the brunt of the criticism for creating problem dogs when in reality no one did anything wrong, and the dogs are fine they just ended up with new or novice owners who don't know enough to recognize that they created the issues the are seeing.
It's amplified by pet trainers who lack the experience to see the difference in learned behavior vs genetic issues, so they regurgitate the "bad breeding" line.


----------



## Bearshandler

This is a big change from the “it’s all about genetics” line that gets thrown around so often.


----------



## Sabis mom

Bearshandler said:


> This is a big change from the “it’s all about genetics” line that gets thrown around so often.


I had a jackrabbit that behaved like a dog, I'm a firm believer in nurture. Lol. 
To be clear, I don't think any amount of training will fix bad genetics. You can mask by teaching opposing behaviors but you cannot change. I also believe that poor handling and lack of training can create problem behaviors. The good news is learned can be undone.


----------



## Bearshandler

It seems to me there’s is a lot of noise here about a breeders dogs being called anxious or nervy. It just seems that a lot of pitchforks have come out to defend them from this statement. I also notice it has some how morphed into all dogs from this breeder are nervy or anxious, which was never said in this thread. It was discussed and moved on. Honestly, I feel like it was answered on the first page. It’s just striking me as odd.


----------



## violetmd

.


----------



## K9 Pirates Lair

I currently own 2 Wendelin Dogs and have worked with 3 others. The 3 came to our group for help in training because we are in B.C. and Christina recommended us to their owners.

The breeding question has been answered , so I will address the " anxiety" question. I suspect the people complaining about this have never worked with a hard or solid dog. Lots of people claim to have experience with hard dogs and "alpha males". When in fact they have experience with average dogs. The Wendelin dogs may exhibit what they consider anxiety, but in fact are probably exhibiting signs of *extreme boredom*. High end, well bred working dogs require Work, and a lot of it, not Talk.

I'm not on Forums often because I don't have the time to talk about.... what I'm doing with my dogs. The 3 Wendelin dogs came to us for help because they told Christina and I quote their words "we are very experienced with working dogs" . Well, it seems they were not really experienced with working dogs, and after trying to work with several trainers who got their credentials online they came to us. And after several training sessions and a lot of advice things worked out well for them.

People need to be careful what they ask for when choosing a breeder or a puppy. *Don't kid yourself* and say I'm going to join a club or a group, find a really good trainer to help me if you have no intention of doing so. Not being honest about what you really want, need and can handle will result in failure, and as always it is the dog that will suffer.

It is always about the dog, not you or me or titles or trophy's....just the dog.

So before you ask Christina or any other breeder for a dog, be honest with yourself. Figure what type of dog you require and then choose a breeder.

As I have said in the past, *"You have to be tougher than the average Grizzly Bear to own a Wendelin Dog"*_.

Good luck, hope you find a great pup_

Kim


----------



## JunoVonNarnia

Interesting posts.


----------



## Jen84

Kim knows what he's talking about.


----------



## Chip Blasiole

Hi Kim,
I got the black pup out of Tony’s breeding of Xly X Bjori in 2018 that you helped with imprinting /exposure. We have our PSA PDC and hope to have the first leg of our PSA 1 by the end of the year.


----------



## K9 Pirates Lair

Chip Blasiole said:


> Hi Kim,
> I got the black pup out of Tony’s breeding of Xly X Bjori in 2018 that you helped with imprinting /exposure. We have our PSA PDC and hope to have the first leg of our PSA 1 by the end of the year.


Hi Chip
I remember that pup quite well, gave me some grey hairs! LOL
And I'm still waiting for Sly to apologize to me for biting me in my stomach.

Good luck in the PSA trial, I have a feeling you both will do very well.

Kim


----------



## Chip Blasiole

Thanks


----------



## Sabis mom

K9 Pirates Lair said:


> As I have said in the past, *"You have to be tougher than the average Grizzly Bear to own a Wendelin Dog"*_._


I know a couple of Wendelin dogs that are in purely pet homes, not super experienced owners and they are lovely dogs. The owners followed the advice they were given and both dogs are just fine, getting up in years and doing great.


----------



## lee nash scott

Wendelin pup is very disappointing, flopped ears umbilical hernia are not advertised and yet thats what I got for 3500 dollars. Cant make up for the time training, effort, energy and money that on a pension I invested.


----------



## Sabis mom

Breeder bashing is not allowed, but that looks like a pup and you do know that they aren't born with ears up right?


----------



## lee nash scott

lee nash scott said:


> Wendelin pup is very disappointing, flopped ears umbilical hernia are not advertised and yet thats what I got for 3500 dollars. Cant make up for the time training effort energy and money that on a pension I invested.
> View attachment 580112


This girl was to replace one I lost, paid 400 dollars for a lovely German Shepherd, non registered. This time I did my research on the internet, thought the American kennel club and other forums would have made breeders more honest. Just goes down to how the internet makes it even worse for buyers, facebook and internet enhance the ability of those bad breeders to look good.


----------



## Sabis mom

lee nash scott said:


> This girl was to replace one I lost, paid 400 dollars for a lovely German Shepherd, non registered. This time I did my research on the internet, thought the American kennel club and other forums would have made breeders more honest. Just goes down to how the internet makes it even worse for buyers, facebook and internet enhance the ability of those bad breeders to look good.


None of this is sensible. First of all we are in Canada and I am pretty sure Wendelin pups are registered with the CKC.


----------



## muffinhead

mattishere said:


> Alright thank you! I have another option for a litter that will be born in March from a breeder that will be breeding his female to Irck de la Hutte du Berger. This will be his B litter. His first litter best female went to a recommended breeder called Ulfheim, I contacted her and she sent me to this guy because she no longer breeds. Is getting a dog from a newer breeder a good idea? He trains his own dogs and titles them, DM clear, I can DM you more info if you wish with the Pedigree.


I also am looking for a German shepard and absolutely love the wendelin dogs their confirmation looks so much more sturdy. I Love how welcome people are to visit the farm that speaks mountains to me about the type of breeder you are dealing with. sketchy breeders don't want visitors and wendelin wants to have you come. Is the breeder that you mentioned listed in the Ontario GSD LIST?


----------



## muffinhead

cagal said:


> If you PM me I can give you some input. Not personal with Wendelin but I was given excellent advice by a breeder in the Ottawa area who only breeds one litter if that a year. She was incredibly helpful and it really helped me with my search. There are a lot of options if you know where to start.


any chance you could point me in other areas as well? Thx


----------



## gsdsteve

lee nash scott said:


> Wendelin pup is very disappointing, flopped ears umbilical hernia are not advertised and yet thats what I got for 3500 dollars. Cant make up for the time training, effort, energy and money that on a pension I invested.
> View attachment 580112


Umbilical hernia is not unusual and of course it has floppy ears. It's a puppy!


----------



## Galathiel

A very nice-looking puppy at that!


----------



## DannyYYC

We are getting a Wendelin female puppy next week. A few comments have me concerned in here but overall still sounds solid. My partner has owned a dog before and has more experience but this is my first time. 

Anyone want to give me some tips? Even though my partner will probably take more responsibility I definitely want to be involved and make sure I'm doing the right things. Reading books, daily newsletters, got her enrolled in puppy classes starting in 2 weeks.

I'm excited but anxious :|


----------



## drparker151

DannyYYC said:


> We are getting a Wendelin female puppy next week. A few comments have me concerned in here but overall still sounds solid. My partner has owned a dog before and has more experience but this is my first time.
> 
> Anyone want to give me some tips? Even though my partner will probably take more responsibility I definitely want to be involved and make sure I'm doing the right things. Reading books, daily newsletters, got her enrolled in puppy classes starting in 2 weeks.
> 
> I'm excited but anxious :|


Congrats on the new pup, you should start a new thread to get better answers. I would wait until the pup is fully vaccinated before going to puppy class or where other dogs frequently go. 

Read a lot of threads in the puppy section on this board. Focus on bonding at first.


----------



## gsdsteve

DannyYYC said:


> We are getting a Wendelin female puppy next week. A few comments have me concerned in here but overall still sounds solid. My partner has owned a dog before and has more experience but this is my first time.
> 
> Anyone want to give me some tips? Even though my partner will probably take more responsibility I definitely want to be involved and make sure I'm doing the right things. Reading books, daily newsletters, got her enrolled in puppy classes starting in 2 weeks.
> 
> I'm excited but anxious :|


Nothing to be concerned about! Congratulations!


----------



## ChelaW

cagal said:


> If you PM me I can give you some input. Not personal with Wendelin but I was given excellent advice by a breeder in the Ottawa area who only breeds one litter if that a year. She was incredibly helpful and it really helped me with my search. There are a lot of options if you know where to start.


I'm in Ontario (Toronto area) and have been trying to research breeders for while, but its a challenge. This sounds like the type of advice that I've been hoping to find and that would be very helpful. Would also really appreciate it if you could share some input about where to start to seek out this kind of advice and find those kinds of options. Many thanks.


----------



## HollandN

If you go to face book it’s German shepherd breeders of Ontario I prefer smaller breeders


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## violetmd

I have a Wendelin dog and know several people with Wendelin dogs or dogs with sires from Wendelin, feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.


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## DannyYYC

violetmd said:


> I have a Wendelin dog and know several people with Wendelin dogs or dogs with sires from Wendelin, feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.


Hey wanted to send you a PM but looks like you have limited who can message ya.


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## JamesYYC

DannyYYC said:


> We are getting a Wendelin female puppy next week. A few comments have me concerned in here but overall still sounds solid. My partner has owned a dog before and has more experience but this is my first time.
> 
> Anyone want to give me some tips? Even though my partner will probably take more responsibility I definitely want to be involved and make sure I'm doing the right things. Reading books, daily newsletters, got her enrolled in puppy classes starting in 2 weeks.
> 
> I'm excited but anxious :|


Hey DannyYYC - we have the other Wendelin pup that arrived in Calgary on the night of Jan 31st (yellow male from the INCKA x EGON litter born Dec 2nd). How is yours doing? Tried to send a DM but couldn't.


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## DannyYYC

JamesYYC said:


> Hey DannyYYC - we have the other Wendelin pup that arrived in Calgary on the night of Jan 31st (yellow male from the INCKA x EGON litter born Dec 2nd). How is yours doing? Tried to send a DM but couldn't.


I was able to PM you. Check your Conversations under your profile button at the top.


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## Poncho’s mom

JamesYYC said:


> Hey DannyYYC - we have the other Wendelin pup that arrived in Calgary on the night of Jan 31st (yellow male from the INCKA x EGON litter born Dec 2nd). How is yours doing? Tried to send a DM but couldn't.


Hi JamesYYC. I have the brown collar male from the same litter. I sent you a PM as well.


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## taylor.j.bacon

ChelaW said:


> I'm in Ontario (Toronto area) and have been trying to research breeders for while, but its a challenge. This sounds like the type of advice that I've been hoping to find and that would be very helpful. Would also really appreciate it if you could share some input about where to start to seek out this kind of advice and find those kinds of options. Many thanks.


I’m in Toronto as well and just brought home a Wendelin pup last week. I was a bit nervous after reading some of earlier posts on this thread. Very impressed with how stable and confident this pup is. Also met a 1 year old Wendelin dog in my neighborhood that I was quite impressed with.


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## DannyYYC

taylor.j.bacon said:


> I’m in Toronto as well and just brought home a Wendelin pup last week. I was a bit nervous after reading some of earlier posts on this thread. Very impressed with how stable and confident this pup is. Also met a 1 year old Wendelin dog in my neighborhood that I was quite impressed with.


Which litter?


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## taylor.j.bacon

DannyYYC said:


> Which litter?


A Doris/Egon female. The other dog in the neighborhood is a Doris pup as well. My previous experience has all been with working labs. This is a very different pup!


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## DannyYYC

taylor.j.bacon said:


> A Doris/Egon female. The other dog in the neighborhood is a Doris pup as well. My previous experience has all been with working labs. This is a very different pup!


Awesome! We have an Incka/Egon pup. Just a heads up when you take her to the vet for her second shots I'd bring a stool sample. My pup as well as 2 others that I know of from the same litter all had giardia from day 1. It's been cleared up with mine and one of the other pups but it's just something to be aware of since we believe it came from the farm.


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## Poncho’s mom

I’m in Oshawa and have a pup from the Incka/Egon litter!


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## Caliza

I have a Wendelin dog, he’s around 1.5 years now. He definitely has an anxiety/nerve issue. We’ve been able to train through a lot of his problems, but he started pretty bad reactivity and other issues around 5mo.


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## DannyYYC

Caliza said:


> I have a Wendelin dog, he’s around 1.5 years now. He definitely has an anxiety/nerve issue. We’ve been able to train through a lot of his problems, but he started pretty bad reactivity and other issues around 5mo.


Who are the parents.


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## Caliza

DannyYYC said:


> Who are the parents.


Hakova x Egon. On top of the behavioral issues, he unfortunately also ended up a cryptorchid so I had to neuter him to avoid complications with the undescended testicle. I would not recommend, or get my next German from Wendelin.


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## Pirates Lair

Just wanted to add something to this post about Wendelin Farm and for all other reputable breeders.

I am posting this review to address issues for former and future owners of Wendelin Farm dogs.
I own 2 dogs from Wendelin Farm, and have worked with several more.
I am a former Special Provincial Constable and K9 Handler in B.C. Canada. You can view these dogs on my You Tube channel - K9 Pirates Lair as well as my friend’s channel -Canczech dogs.
We have bred German shepherd dogs for years and trained them in many venues, Police, Protection, SAR etc.

I feel that I have the experience and credentials to recommend purchasing a dog from Wendelin Farm.

-1 You need to understand something about puppies and breeders.

Puppies are a "crap shoot", meaning that ....and read carefully....actually read this. Unfortunately.... No matter how good the Sire (father) or the Dam (mother) is, or all the health checks and OFA Certifications....you can still have a litter that has genetic health issues. And it is no fault of the Breeder.

- 2 The only financially reasonable and responsible onus on the Breeder - is to offer you a refund or a replacement puppy.

No Breeder in the World (don't believe their web site B.S) is going to financially support an unhealthy puppy. If they say they will....they are lying and you’re ignorant for believing them!
My wife travelled from B.C. to Quebec to pick up our pup (future brood bitch) from Wendelin Farm. And when we purchased our future brood bitch we did so knowing that there are No Guarantees in Life!

And, our bitch who is out of Haakon received an OFA Excellent.

Puppies are a crap shoot; genetics are a funny thing, just like in people.

I highly recommend Wendelin Farm to anyone wishing to purchase a healthy high drive working dog. But I caution you....these dogs are not couch potatoes or computer forum experts!

These dogs actually work, and as I am fond of saying -
"You have to be tougher than the average Grizzly Bear to own a Wendelin Dog".

Anyone wishing more information on my experience with Wendelin Farm is free to contact me.

_[PM for personal contact info]_


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## jonathonwisnoski

I will lend my experience with anxiety in general and Wendalin dogs specifically. Note that all this comes from dogs I have personally owned and I am not an expert, so I may be misusing jargon I am unaware of.

All working dogs are going to have some form anxiety. If the dog does not care about anything dramatically, you will not be able to work them very well imho.
From what I have seen general anxiety seems pretty well correlated with protection instinct. I have had 2 Wendalin dogs, one was shy and anxious, the second the calmest dog you have ever seen.

The anxiety in a well bred and kept dog only shows itself in constructive ways. When I brought the anxious one home it ran in front of me, and started to stare down my +150lb 4 yo male, the calm one (at a different date) ran over to the male and flopped on her back. If a bear were to come charging out of the woods, she very well might do the same thing, I am not entirely sure she is aware that dangerous creatures exist. The anxiety also seemed to help her control herself better. But it is not very conductive to laying around and relaxing.

And since you are never going to be able to out hike a wendalin GSD, imho the average pet owner will still want a relatively low-anxious dog, but if you also want one for protection, you dont want no anxiety imho.


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## David Winners

jonathonwisnoski said:


> I will lend my experience with anxiety in general and Wendalin dogs specifically. Note that all this comes from dogs I have personally owned and I am not an expert, so I may be misusing jargon I am unaware of.
> 
> All working dogs are going to have some form anxiety. If the dog does not care about anything dramatically, you will not be able to work them very well imho.
> From what I have seen general anxiety seems pretty well correlated with protection instinct. I have had 2 Wendalin dogs, one was shy and anxious, the second the calmest dog you have ever seen.
> 
> The anxiety in a well bred and kept dog only shows itself in constructive ways. When I brought the anxious one home it ran in front of me, and started to stare down my +150lb 4 yo male, the calm one (at a different date) ran over to the male and flopped on her back. If a bear were to come charging out of the woods, she very well might do the same thing, I am not entirely sure she is aware that dangerous creatures exist. The anxiety also seemed to help her control herself better. But it is not very conductive to laying around and relaxing.
> 
> And since you are never going to be able to out hike a wendalin GSD, imho the average pet owner will still want a relatively low-anxious dog, but if you also want one for protection, you dont want no anxiety imho.


What you are referring to here is called suspicion.

And a +150 pound male what?


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## jonathonwisnoski

David Winners said:


> And a +150 pound male what?


GSD, but not a czech one.


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## Civil DNA

Some good info here on a few Wendelin dogs:


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