# Dog Returned to Sender



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

GSD Returned without the breeder's knowledge. Dog stuck at airport. 

Even if the dog isn't right for you, is that the way to get rid of it? I don't think so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/12/n...ork.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=german+shepherd&st=cse

A Night Spent in Limbo for a Dog Returned to Sender

On Oct. 4, Jason Dubin drove to La Guardia Airport to pick up the newest member of his household.

Kraftwerk K9
Emmi was sent 3,000 miles with no one to pick her up.

Six days after that first happy meeting, Mr. Dubin returned to La Guardia with that same member, a German shepherd named Emmi, and sent her on a Continental Airlines flight to Seattle with a one-way ticket.

“I just couldn’t control her anymore; it was just time to part ways,” said Mr. Dubin, who made the drive from his Port Jefferson home on Long Island as Emmi, who is 5, fidgeted and barked in the back seat.

Mr. Dubin had bought the 80-pound dog over the Internet for $7,500 from Kraftwerk K9, a company in Rochester, Wash., that breeds, trains and sells German shepherds.

“Emmi was portrayed to us as an obedient, well-trained, even-tempered dog,” Mr. Dubin said on Tuesday. “But within a week, I soon realized that Emmi was an aggressive dog who posed a great danger to my family.”

So Mr. Dubin shipped Emmi back to the West Coast, but there was no one there to greet her when she arrived, safe in her crate, at Seattle-Tacoma Airport on Monday afternoon. After lingering for a time in the company of pushcarts and lost luggage, Emmi was forced to spend a night in a Seattle kennel.

There's more at the link...


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

It sounds like the BREEDER was notified and rejected the return of the dog because 72 hours had passed!

I am sorry for $7500 I would expect more than 72 hours. When I got Grim at 2 years old for less than a third of the price I had 30 days (and the fellow I got him from was straight up businessman who I verified was good to his word)


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

This....is just despicable. I can't believe what I just read!

Even if the animal in question didn't agree with me, I would never do something like that - and as to the last little bit of that article, if he was truly worried that the dog would be destroyed in a shelter, he would have NEVER sent her back without talking to the breeder first. Either that or he would have tried to re-home her. Some people just shouldn't own dogs, regardless of the breed.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

What a story, what a beautiful dog.

How could this have happened? Wouldn't it be best for the person to fly in and meet the dog at a price tag of $7500.00 to be sure the fit would be good? It seems that there should be an orientation period between the breeder/trainer and the new owner of the dog so that all the commands are clear.

Was the dog indeed well trained?


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I always gave 30 days on an adult dog. You just never know if they are going to fit or not.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I don't think much of the buyer or the breeder. I just feel sorry for the dog. Poor Emmi.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

72 hours is too short. I got Doerak as an adult, and I was nothing to him for most of the first month. Eventually, we bonded and he was the best dog. And it was a good thing that the trainer came with him and spent a couple of hours over 2 days with me. It helped that I live near Kings Island. He brought the whole family.

I wonder how the credit card dispute will go.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Poor dog.....Kraftwerk is a big commercial broker **** comment removed by Admin****..sigh.....at least the buyer did not have his cat killed in front of him and his children!!!!!! 

So many people out there who don't do any research - this is obviously one of them.

Lee


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

There are wrongs on both sides of the story. 

I dont get why people would spend so much on a supposedly highly trained dog and not fly or drive in to meet the dog and trainer in person to understand and learn how to control and work with their dog, especially if there are other pets and children in the house. I guess some people just think they can throw money at anything to get what they want, but I can see how it can backfire when dealing with a living, breathing animal.

I don't have anything nice to say about big commercial breeders that equate breeding dogs to dollar signs and strictly business. Anyone can be fooled by a fancy website. I remember the whole saga of how kraftwerk treated a puppy buyer from them whose 3 year old dog needed a kidney transplant....so I'll take Thumper's advice on this one :X


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I've heard several bad stories similar to this from Kraftwerk. 
It also sounds like the buyer was not prepared for a high drive dogs, like the ones Kraftwerk sells. 

Sad on both ends.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

what a gorgeous gorgeous dog,,,I haven't got much good to say about either of the parties, but feel really bad for the dog


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Here she is if anyone wants to take a look.

https://kraftwerkk9.com/2011/10/watch-emmi-perform-obedience-exercises/


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Is she listed for sale again?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

BlackPuppy said:


> Is she listed for sale again?



I don't see her listed yet. I'm sure she will be though at some point soon if she's still available.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Hmmm... seems to be a pretty nicely trained dog. Strange.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Shaina said:


> Hmmm... seems to be a pretty nicely trained dog. Strange.


My guess is that it was just "too much dog" for it's new owner. Kind of like giving a Ferrari to an 85 year old senior citizen or a 16 year old kid.

Too much dog and not a good fit.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Yeah, but the guy claimed that the dog "did not know commands"... clearly that dog just did NOT take him seriously


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## TriadGSD (Feb 19, 2011)

shes beautiful poor girl =(


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## jmopaso (Nov 27, 2008)

It is indeed very unfortunate that issues such as described here occur. In my opinion true professionals will represent the dog honestly. I find that often potential purchasers are not really sure what they are looking for, but even for me it is easy to tell the misguided or confused person from that person who actually knows the type of dog they are looking for. People may tell you they are looking for a dog to protect their family, but they don't really want a "protection dog". They really want a family dog who will bark at an intruder.

It is very important to be able to match the family with the dog they can handle. It is sad that such a large entity often is represented as not doing a good job in that aspect. I have no doubt they have nice dogs. It would be nice to hear more sucess stories though.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Shaina said:


> Yeah, but the guy claimed that the dog "did not know commands"... clearly that dog just did NOT take him seriously


He probably got the dog home and expected her to do back flips for him on command. I think some people just don't realize that the bond between the dog and human is just as important to training as knowing the commands. If you came to my house and gave my dogs commands, she'd probably look at you like you're nuts. There was no bond.

I think for the money he spent - he expected it to be the perfect dog right out of the box. Obviously, it wasn't the case and the dog was shipped back to sender.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I just don't know about this one. I would have expected more from the kennel.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

maybe if more money would have been paid for the dog.... 5 or 6 digits, then things might have worked out.


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

Not everyone should own a working line German Shepherd Dog, even one who seems quite well trained in the videos that were put up. It takes more than a checkbook to handle a strong dog. I looked her up on the European database, she's a Tom granddaughter. It seems that the purchaser shipped her back, and notified the Kennel after she was airborne. Not the kind of advertisement working dogs need for sure.


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## amaris (Jan 6, 2011)

After watching the two videos...she seems so perfectly trained >.<

Either the dog didn't respect/bond with the new owner in time, high drive protection type dog mixed with children and cat without proper introduction....or well, german commands, maybe it's something as simple as not saying it or indicating the command in a way the dog knew and understood....*shrugs*

saw this article this morning via Westside GSD rescue....sad case, poor Emmi


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Poor dog. I place a lot of the blame on the breeder. They_ refused_ to take their dog back after the owner said he wanted to return it, how can they say they care about what happens to it? All they cared about was their 72 day policy.

I don't think there was much the owner could do. He didn't want the dog killed at a shelter, but he couldn't keep a dangerous dog that was aggressive to his family long enough to find a new owner and rehome it. It tried to bite his son twice and had already bitten another dog. Protecting your family comes first. Sending it on the plane without confirming with the breeder isn't a good idea, but at least it did force the breeder to finally take it back.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I guess my dogs might be "dangerous" in someone else 's hands! Who knows?! I knew of a wonderful and talented dog whose inexperienced new owner had a gun to his head. Fortunately an experienced person arrived to rescue just in time! Someone ended up with an increible dog for free....same dog who was "dangerous " in the eyes of the novice who paid 12,000.00 for him! 

Not a match does happen. Probably when selling and making money become a factor, it is more likely to happen.


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## Cetan (Oct 8, 2011)

Kinda _eeeehhhhhh_ on both sides.

But... given that the owner apparently did some shady business with Continental to get them to ship the dog after it was originally cancelled by them, I'm guessing, because the breeder wasn't going to pick him up...

The dog wasn't a fit, and I can't fault the owner for wanting to remove the dog from his home. Still, he was the one who paid the $7500. He agreed to the terms of the sale, and the 72-hour return window. I did think though, that most breeder agreements downright DEMAND the dog returned to them first, before they're given away to a shelter, etc.

But... the breeder should've picked up the dog anyways if he knew it was coming, which he did, according to the article. I can understand being busy, and not being able to drop everything for a surprise plane coming in, but if he was able to send a staff member the next day, why not do it the day he arrived? There was plenty of time (3000 mile flight + 4-hour wait) to organize SOMETHING.

Tsk tsk, at both sides.

Poor Emmi caught in the middle.  She's pretty too.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

That dog must have been a "hard dog requiring a firm hand" that the owner couldn't provide... 

Pretty sad on both sides of the story.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

wildo said:


> That dog must have been a "hard dog requiring a firm hand" that the owner couldn't provide...


Well, actually, this is an example of just what I was talking about in the previous thread. Not all people can well handle all dogs. And, it doesn't mean the dog needs abuse! It does need something in the owner that not all possess. A dog skill level that some have very naturally and others may develop. In the "hard dog" ad, at least some attempt to communicate that the dog needed a corresponding owner was being made.

I wonder what the new owner thought well-trained meant? i think my dogs are well trained sometimes...they have lots of obedience skills, they track,, do agility, etc lots of skills and the drive plus control to carry them out. Everyone 's dream dog in their house with kids and kitty...probably not.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Oh yeah Samba- it was intended as a sarcastic joke. Nothing more... I *do* agree that this owner just might not have had "the stuff" it takes to handle that particular dog. And there's nothing wrong with that... (Other than the absurd 72 hour return policy)

From the videos, clearly the dog has a decent amount of training. But on the field is a lot different than off, with a significant bias towards the amount of time off the field. It's a shame really... So much investment on both sides of the story.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Yes, the return thing is hard to comprehend on both sides! This sort of thing happens when people do not realize the definition of what a good dog is has to have some common ground of understanding.

"well-trained" is far from the whole story.


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## s14roller (Nov 18, 2010)

Both sides were wrong and unfortunately the dog got thrown around like a used rag...

Idiot buyer for not thinking this through more. It's a living animal, not some toy you can return to the store or discard. 

_**** Edited by Mod **** _ was the Kraftwerk biz thinking...I understand rejecting a return and all, but to know a dog that they raised and trained is sitting in an airport alone, is un-excusable. It's all great when they have lots of ads showing they are a great place to get a GSD...until something like this comes out. 72 hrs is ridiculous...3 days to determine if a dog will be a fit for your family for life?


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

s14roller said:


> Both sides were wrong and unfortunately the dog got thrown around like a used rag...
> 
> Idiot buyer for not thinking this through more. It's a living animal, not some toy you can return to the store or discard.
> 
> **** Edited by Mod **** was the Kraftwerk biz thinking...I understand rejecting a return and all, but to know a dog that they raised and trained is sitting in an airport alone, is un-excusable. It's all great when they have lots of ads showing they are a great place to get a GSD...until something like this comes out. 72 hrs is ridiculous...3 days to determine if a dog will be a fit for your family for life?


A breeder might have gorgeous dogs and provide great service when everything goes smooth but it is when things go wrong when you are able to see the true colors and nature of the breeder. A 3 day contract is the work of a business owner with no conscience. The dogs are their paycheck. They aren't breeding and selling because of a true love of the breed or a desire to truly better the breed. An ethical breeder would take any of their dogs back without hesitation at any point of the dog's life and would offer a lifetime of support.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Here she is if anyone wants to take a look.
> 
> https://kraftwerkk9.com/2011/10/watch-emmi-perform-obedience-exercises/


She definitely looks trained to me.

She is beautiful.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Stella's Mom said:


> She definitely looks trained to me.
> 
> She is beautiful.


Is there more pictures that I missed other than the one that shows a picture of her face? Because I am wondering what you saw that made you think that she looked trained?

She is beautiful, it just seems to me that if the buyer was willing to pay that much money for her, something must have been wrong for him to decide to return her. I think that IF she is trained, the breeder should have not sold her without meeting with the new owner and reviewing the commands with him, and familiarizing him with the dog. This whole story is strange.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think BOTH parties are negligent. The buyer should have never sent the dog back without confirmation of pick up. His response was he "hoped" the dog wouldn't' get sent to a shelter? What an ass! And even larger ass was the seller for not being responsible. 72 hours or 72 days...you don't leave a dog sitting in limbo and you don't just put an animal on a plane and hope someone will pick her up. Sounds like the Russian orphan story.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Is there more pictures that I missed other than the one that shows a picture of her face? Because I am wondering what you saw that made you think that she looked trained?





Lucy Dog said:


> Here she is if anyone wants to take a look.
> 
> https://kraftwerkk9.com/2011/10/watch-emmi-perform-obedience-exercises/


...


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Is there more pictures that I missed other than the one that shows a picture of her face? Because I am wondering what you saw that made you think that she looked trained?
> 
> She is beautiful, it just seems to me that if the buyer was willing to pay that much money for her, something must have been wrong for him to decide to return her. I think that IF she is trained, the breeder should have not sold her without meeting with the new owner and reviewing the commands with him, and familiarizing him with the dog. This whole story is strange.


Honestly, I think that guy had no idea how to handle the dog.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Is there more pictures that I missed other than the one that shows a picture of her face? Because I am wondering what you saw that made you think that she looked trained?
> 
> She is beautiful, it just seems to me that if the buyer was willing to pay that much money for her, something must have been wrong for him to decide to return her. I think that IF she is trained, the breeder should have not sold her without meeting with the new owner and reviewing the commands with him, and familiarizing him with the dog. This whole story is strange.


There are some video links showing her working with the trainer. One of the other members addressed your question with the links.

An orientation period with the dog and the prospective owner should be required before shipping an animal 3,000 miles. It could be that the buyer had no experience whatsoever with a working GSD and was clueless as to what he was in for.


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

Some people just can't handle GSD's.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Mrs. K-thanks for posting those videos. I'd have to agree with you. The dog is trained, the buyer was not-lol. Now when a breeder sells a trained dog, wouldn't it be wise for the buyer to come to the breeder and spend time being trained himself on how to handle the dog?


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Stella's Mom said:


> There are some video links showing her working with the trainer. One of the other members addressed your question with the links.
> 
> *An orientation period with the dog and the prospective owner should be required before shipping an animal 3,000 miles. It could be that the buyer had no experience whatsoever with a working GSD and was clueless as to what he was in for.*


Agreed


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> Honestly, I think that guy had no idea how to handle the dog.
> 
> Emmi Retrieving Video - YouTube
> 
> ...



I agree and the breeder/trainer should have known better than to ship that type of dog to someone who is clueless about how to handle the dog and what to expect of the dog.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

It would be wise. But honestly, what happened here should tell us something about the business practices of the kennel.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Mrs. K-thanks for posting those videos. I'd have to agree with you. The dog is trained, the buyer was not-lol. Now when a breeder sells a trained dog, wouldn't it be wise for the buyer to come to the breeder and spend time being trained himself on how to handle the dog?


Or at least agree to visit a club to be taught how to handle a dog like that.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Now when the owner says, I was afraid nobody would claim her and she'd be PTS (not word for word but basically what he said) the first thought that went through my head was she'd have never been put to sleep-I'd have went and got her. How many people on here thought the same thing?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Now when the owner says, I was afraid nobody would claim her and she'd be PTS (not word for word but basically what he said) the first thought that went through my head was she'd have never been put to sleep-I'd have went and got her. How many people on here thought the same thing?


I would have driven those six hours in a heart beat. 

Another thing I wonder is how the german breeder feels about the whole thing and if he even cares that one of his dogs made it into the NY Times.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

GSDkid said:


> Some people just can't handle GSD's.


lol, someone can really be up a creek though if they have a high drive working line dog on their hands that they can't speak the language of. Serious dogs require serious owners. Sounds like this buyer should just stick to guns for personal protection, at least he can physically control the safety switch ;p


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> I would have driven those six hours in a heart beat.
> 
> Another thing I wonder is how the german breeder feels about the whole thing and if he even cares that one of his dogs made it into the NY Times.


That would be interesting to hear what the breeder says about it, and if he is considering making any changes in how he sells his dogs.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

Has anyone here try to contact the kennel about purchasing the dog?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Well, I sent him an email with the link. Not sure if I will get an answer but I'd like to know if I was the breeder what is happening to my dogs.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

another situation where both coming out looking like dog ****. Sorry, but there was nothing wild and uncontrollable about this dog. the buyer didn't do his homework. The dealer is a straight up ( **** removed by Mod ****) as well. 

if you got the money, you got the dog. I know it's a business, and it's not illegal to care you know. It might eat into a few dollars of profit sometimes, but seriously, check out your buyers, do a better job, and don't leave another living breathing animal, that you consider a commodity, sitting at an airport. 

Both parties suck, and suck a big one.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

:thumbup: crackem


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

crackem said:


> another situation where both coming out looking like dog ****. Sorry, but there was nothing wild and uncontrollable about this dog. the buyer didn't do his homework. The dealer is a straight up ( **** Removed by MOD ****) as well.
> 
> if you got the money, you got the dog. I know it's a business, and it's not illegal to care you know. It might eat into a few dollars of profit sometimes, but seriously, check out your buyers, do a better job, and don't leave another living breathing animal, that you consider a commodity, sitting at an airport.
> 
> Both parties suck, and suck a big one.


My thoughts exactly. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

crackem said:


> another situation where both coming out looking like dog ****. Sorry, but there was nothing wild and uncontrollable about this dog. the buyer didn't do his homework. The dealer is a straight up ( **** Removed by MOD ****) as well.
> 
> if you got the money, you got the dog. I know it's a business, and it's not illegal to care you know. It might eat into a few dollars of profit sometimes, but seriously, check out your buyers, do a better job, and don't leave another living breathing animal, that you consider a commodity, sitting at an airport.
> 
> Both parties suck, and suck a big one.


I concur. I wish I could afford Emmi, and that my husband would be on board with a 2nd dog.

I am going to start my girl in Shutzhund and hopefully with "both" of us training we will look on top of our game as Emmi does in those videos.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I'm annoyed with both parties.

I think the buyer had absolutely no clue what he was getting into. He did not understand he is ordering a high-drive, previously trained, working line dog. He did not understand that dogs are not machines. You can't just unpack the dog and expect it to function like you can a new DVD player or computer. You have to give the dog time to get settled in the new home, you have to slowly introduce them to other pets in the household, and you have to establish rules and bond with them.

It sounds to me like this guy got the dog home and immediately let her loose in the house around the cat and his kids, expecting her to immediately be the perfect dog and listen to everyone in the family. Then the dog sees a prey object (cat) and chases - which is pretty normal behavior for a dog, especially if the dog has not spent a lot of time around cats, is in a new home, and is not being leashed or otherwise controlled in any way.

Then he claims the dog posed a danger to his kids. This is after just a few days of having her. I don't know what the kids and dog were allowed to do together, but I bet he allowed the kids to hang all over the dog and expected the dog to be fine with it. Or else the dog was chasing / nipping at the kids as they ran around and played ... herding breed and all that. Those seem to be the most common "dog attacked kids" scenarios I hear and see.

So then he wants to send the dog back. This is less than a week after he bought the dog, the poor thing hasn't had a chance to bond yet or get settled in the new home. She probably has not had any rules established for her. 

Heck, it could even be that she wasn't listening because he wasn't pronouncing the commands correctly. (There seems to be a lot of mispronouncing of German commands going on. I see a lot of "seeeetz" instead of "sitz" and they don't sound anything alike to me, let alone a dog.)

I definitely think that the seller also falls short. 72 hours is NOT enough time to see whether a dog will work out for you or not!


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Just think maybe if you were at the airport at the right time free dog...not a bad deal


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

amaris said:


> After watching the two videos...she seems so perfectly trained >.<
> 
> Either the dog didn't respect/bond with the new owner in time, high drive protection type dog mixed with children and cat without proper introduction....or well, german commands, maybe it's something as simple as not saying it or indicating the command in a way the dog knew and understood....*shrugs*


It is also possible that a dog could be trained but then the training is not kept up, and they "forget" the commands. I was told by her previous owners that Bianca was trained (in German), but that it had been a while since they'd worked with her. They gave me a list of the commands she knew. When I got her she would usually respond to sitz, platz, and aus, would mostly ignore bleib and acted like she'd never heard fuss before (it wasn't mispronunciation on my part, my dad was a German teacher and I doublechecked with him to make sure I had them right.)
This has not changed due to "respect" or bonding. I retrained her with new commands and she responds great to those but is the same as she was before with the original German ones.
I am not saying that necessarily is what happened here, just that it is possible for a dog to be "well trained" at one time and then not remember that training later.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> It is also possible that a dog could be trained but then the training is not kept up, and they "forget" the commands. I was told by her previous owners that Bianca was trained (in German), but that it had been a while since they'd worked with her. They gave me a list of the commands she knew. When I got her she would usually respond to sitz, platz, and aus, would mostly ignore bleib and acted like she'd never heard fuss before.  This has not changed due to "respect" or bonding. I retrained her with new commands and she responds great to those but is the same as she was before with the original German ones.


If she really has the SchH1 it would take years and years and years for the dog to really _forget _all these commands. 

Ignoring? That might very well be the case if she figured out that the guy has no clue whatsoever she could have simply played games with him but hand that dog over to someone who does know what he's doing. The dog will work. 

However, the dog didn't even get a chance. :help:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

AbbyK9 said:


> I'm annoyed with both parties.


Yep, plenty of blame to go around. Definitely a clueless owner who had no idea what he was getting himself into, and I can't believe he put the dog at risk by just sending her to an airport without confirmation that someone would be there to meet the flight and pick her up. :angryfire:

But this comment by the kennel, unbelievable: 



> When told of that accusation, Mr. Curry responded: “That’s not even near correct. Mr. Dubin called us the day after he received Emmi and told us that she wasn’t getting along with his cat, but never said anything about wanting to return her to us. It wasn’t until Saturday, Oct. 8, that he expressed a desire, via e-mail, to return Emmi, and by that time, he was already too late.”


Dubin got the dog on October 4th, the 72 hours was up on Friday the 7th, and Saturday it was already was "too late" to return a dog that he didn't want and clearly had no idea how to handle? One single day, and they wouldn't take back a dog and find a more appropriate home for her. Wow.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Yep, plenty of blame to go around. Definitely a clueless owner who had no idea what he was getting himself into, and I can't believe he put the dog at risk by just sending her to an airport without confirmation that someone would be there to meet the flight and pick her up. :angryfire:
> 
> But this comment by the kennel, unbelievable:
> 
> ...


Dogs are a merchandise for them and I wouldn't be surprised that the only reason they took her back is because of damage control. The purchase was done online, they probably never even met the family the dog was going to. They paid, that's it. Dog is flying out to the costumer, dog is gone and they have room for another import that can be sold for 7500 Dollars.


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## Witz (Feb 28, 2011)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> That would be interesting to hear what the breeder says about it, and if he is considering making any changes in how he sells his dogs.


 
It would have been interesting to hear the conversation when the buyer and breeder decided that this was the right dog for them. Sounds like the buyer said sure I can handle a well trained dog and the breeder saying you will have no problem because she is trained. These things happen, but the abuse here is to the dog and the lack of common sense by the humans.


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## CelticGlory (Jan 19, 2006)

I know some commercial breeders that state they train the dogs in both English and German, so that if the person doesn't know German, they would still be able to handle the dog. I think breeders like this should train the dog in both languages, I'm bad at pronunciation of other languages. I'm better at Japanese than Spanish. I think its up to the breeder to ask if the buyer can even pronounce a different language before selling a dog that can only listen in one language to a buyer. Its not fair to the buyer or the dog. Its set them both up for failure. Also, for a breeder in an English speaking country, it would be better to train them in English instead of German, correct? Since most of the population doesn't even study a foreign language.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Just wondering but would a thread like this be considered breeder bashing?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Kraftwerk is not only a breeder. They import dogs to sell them in the US. Emmi was bred in Germany and the main Language in Germany is German. They will not train a dog in English. Kraftwerk will not put english commands on the dog, they get in, the dog is sold so there is room for a new dog. 

That is the way it is. If they had to completely retrain the dog in english language they wouldn't make any money anytime soon. The sole purpose of importing dogs from Germany is to sell them ASAP so they can make profit from it.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Syaoransbear said:


> Just wondering but would a thread like this be considered breeder bashing?


Since Kraftwerk imported and didn't breed the dog I'd say no. Again, Kraftwerk is NOT THE BREEDER OF EMMI!!!

Gerhard Welsch - zwingervomlisdorferland *THEY ARE!!!!*


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Maybe more like "broker" bashing? lol


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Wow. I thought "responsible breeders" were supposed to take back their dogs anytime, anywhere? I understand that they didn't technically breed Emmi but they DO breed dogs, right? They are considered "reputable", right? Well, not in my book any more. That is a load of dog poo.

As for the idiot who bought her, he is just a moron who obviously should stick to yorkie-poos.


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## CelticGlory (Jan 19, 2006)

Thanks Mrs. K, for explaining.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I got Odessa when she was 3.5 years old. I never met her or the breeder (she was imported), however a person that I know well, knows the breeder well and spoke for me. 

She had a schH1. So is trained. 

I did not go and get any orientation on how to handle her. My entire German Vocabulary (not spelling) is, sitz, platz, actung, donka shoen, bitta shoen, aine Beer Bitta, and ains, fie, dry, fear -- thanks to Pink Floyd. 

She was trained in German. But she has had to learn English. 

I am just saying that it is not that uncommon for a dog to be sold without meeting the dog prior. It works out very well much of the time, else there would not be so many imported dogs in the US. 

I think that the guy did not have what it takes to handle a dog like that. That could be the fault of the seller or the fault of the buyer. It depends on what tales the buyer told to get them to sell the dog. It is always possible that the people selling the dog, felt no-one who did not know what they were about would spend that kind of money on a dog, or that someone spending that kind of money for a 5 year old dog, would make it their business to know what they are getting into. 

Most of the people spending over 5k for a dog are either very into it, know exactly what they are doing, and exactly what they want. But there is I suppose a certain population that have more money than is good for them. 

When I bought my dog, there was no chance that I would ever return the dog, not it 24 hours, 72 hours, or 30 days. Just not happening. Was never a consderation. Good thing she is a great dog. 

I guess I do not know which side is more to blame here. The broker let their dog go to someone who could not manage her. This is an organization that advertises a lot, so they have to deal with a whole lot of dogs, which means they are not spending a lot of time ensuring prospective owners are not pulling the wool over their eyes. They have the money, send the dog. 

And the owner, well he is presented with a working dog, from a working dog organization, and he cannot manage the dog. He tries for a week and the dog is too much for him. He doesn't take no for an answer and ships the dog back. Well, on the one hand, what a nut? But on the other hand, he realized he was not going to get his money back, and he shelled out more for air fare to ship the dog back. He could have dumped the dog in a shelter, which no doubt would have probably meant an end to the dog. So while I think that the reason the dog did not work out, was probably 98% the owner, and not the dog; I think the guy did not take out his bad luck with the dog on the dog, by killing the dog or dumping the dog in a shelter. I am guessing that he figured if he sent the dog back, the kennel would come and pick her up.

I wonder why they wouldn't. They could find another buyer for that dog. 

I wonder what the real fight is between them. Did the guy want a refund for the dog and the shipping, and refuses to release the papers without it? Did the kennel require the paperwork with the dog and refused to accept the dog without the paperwork? I bet they would have been happy to take the dog back with papers, but may not feel obligated to refund money as the contract gives 72 hours. I would take the dog and fight about the papers afterwards -- come to some type of agreement.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Google Wayne Curry/ Kraftwerk and you'll see there is history. With the amount of dogs that go thru the kennel, not everyone will be happy with the way he does business. I think if anyone purchases from him, they had better do their homework.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yikes!
** link removed by Admin**


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mrs.K said:


> Yikes!
> Kraftwerk / Wayne Curry - page 9 - German Shepherd Dog


That is awful if it is true. It is always possible, that the person posting was discharged for any reason, angry at her former employer and making up a huge lie about them. The story has to be corroborated somehow. 

And this is why we do not allow breeder bashing here. We have no way to corroborate people's stories. And it is NOT just enough to take the OPs word for their experience with a breeder. Some people who have a experience with a breeder that did not go exactly how they wanted it to, may try to defame them or they may just tell the story how they see it, leaving out the nasty little facts they chose to ignore, like the contract they signed said that the breeder does not refund cash, etc.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think at this point it is breeder bashing, and we should remove the name of the breeder at least, so I am notifying.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I don't really see any bashing yet. This topic is actually very civil.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

It is a news article link that started the thread....so should we also get rid of the AlphaTex kennel thread? If a breeder is getting bashed, it isn't the responsibility of this board to censor the news is it?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

If the higher ups feel it's breeder bashing I will defer to their judgement. 

I don't feel it's at that point since the articles posted are out there for anyone to view.

It's true you just have to google them and/or check out the PDB website for topics on this kennel. More unfavorable than favorable I would say. 

Again, I don't think the buyer did his homework, and I don't agree with the way he got around Continental to ship the dog back , but I also don't think any reputable breeder would let their dog 'sit' in the airport like that.

I can almost bet that the buyer won't be seeing his 7500 bucks back anytime to soon if ever. 

And yes, with the NY time publizing this, I'm thinking her price has gone up a few more bucks as well....

He shoulda called me first, he could just driven her to my place))) 

So I'll leave it at that


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The only way he'll probably get the refund is if the charge card company won't pay.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

And since he sent the puppy back and no longer has the "merchandise", there is a good chance the CC company won't pay it. I walked out of a hotel within 20 minutes of checking in (5 minutes past the refund time because the guy was purposely ignoring me) and went to another. I just sent in the receipts for both hotels and my CC company didn't pay the crappy one.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Google Wayne Curry/ Kraftwerk and you'll see there is history. With the amount of dogs that go thru the kennel, not everyone will be happy with the way he does business. I think if anyone purchases from him, they had better do their homework.


 
People say do your homework over and over again-does that mean googling the breeder on the internet-because that is just silly And some of the stories about him on the internet are silly If I could buy a 7500 dog I might take a trip to see her first. All the dogs I have seen in person from Kraftwerk have been nice dogs-one had a health issue and he honored his contract


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

selzer said:


> I think at this point it is breeder bashing, and we should remove the name of the breeder at least, so I am notifying.


THink people are bashing the new 'owner' as much as the seller (doesn't look like he bred the dog, right?).

Just goes to show how careful EVERYONE needs to be when selling/buying a big dog. And the fact that many buyers think they pay the big bucks to have a perfect dog that just sits there and is no more trouble or responsibility then a plant in a pot is a huge mistake.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Be very clear on this - Kraftwerk is a BROKER - RESELLER - they buy lots of dogs in Europe and have a very very professional website from which to sell these dogs. People - IMO - are IMPRESSED by this site which is very appealling in it's language. IMO - the dogs on the website are chosen to appeal to the average well heeled buyer. Lots are part DDR which is emphasized. 

I have seen some nice pups from Kraftwerk - no doubt - but at 2 or 3 times "normal price" that most US breeders charge....

I had an ongoing correspondence with a lady years ago whose cat was killed by a dog which was "guaranteed" to be safe with cats....she followed - IMO - very bad advice to let the animals "work it out" - and the dog killed the cat - and not by a hard shake.

The internet is a wonderful thing - and gives us the opportunity to find what we want...but like Barnum said - "there is a sucker born every minute" - and that is what alot of internet web site owners count on!

Lee


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

...so you shouldn't buy a dog from him because one of his dogs killed a cat...brillant advice-oh and hes expensive-


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

is that all you took from this thread?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I would respond to you but I have decided to take my dog swimming-so that she doesn't want to get returned to sender


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

holland said:


> ...so you shouldn't buy a dog from him because one of his dogs killed a cat...brillant advice-oh and hes expensive-



*whoosh*


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## s14roller (Nov 18, 2010)

holland said:


> ...so you shouldn't buy a dog from him because one of his dogs killed a cat...brillant advice-oh and hes expensive-


Holland - take some more time to read Lee's response clearly...you are making an assumption she is referring to a Kraftwerk dog when she didn't even state WHERE the dog came from...notice the break in paragraphs 



wolfstraum said:


> Be very clear on this - Kraftwerk is a BROKER - RESELLER - they buy lots of dogs in Europe and have a very very professional website from which to sell these dogs. People - IMO - are IMPRESSED by this site which is very appealling in it's language. IMO - the dogs on the website are chosen to appeal to the average well heeled buyer. Lots are part DDR which is emphasized.
> 
> I have seen some nice pups from Kraftwerk - no doubt - but at 2 or 3 times "normal price" that most US breeders charge....
> 
> ...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Thanks s14roller - this is common hit and run snarky bs from Holland - for some reason (and I think I figured out the source LOL ) "Holland" - who has never met me, nor talked to me - is carrying on a snarky little cowardly vendetta because someone told her some fantasy nonsense...that person has since been shown to carry on vendettas and tirades (much of it proven to be lies and fantasy) against many many people....so instead of making up her own mind - it APPEARS - it is my CONCLUSION from her attitude towards everything I write - that she twists it into some inference she can snipe at....

This is why I despise internet anonymity - people snipe and get nasty and don't have the courage to even identify themselves. Thus, they are IMO cowards who cannot think for themselves and of no consequence. I truly wish this board required real identities.

Lee


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, a link to pedigree database in one of the posts had a long article from a former employee that talks about parvo in several litters of puppies, and how he dealt with them. I suppose you can buy whole litters and import them. Not sure. My guess is that he buys some bitches pregnant, whelps the litters which makes him the breeder. That is why I thought it falls under breeder-bashing. But, if the site isn't worried about being linked to a bunch of negative stuff, that may or may not be true, I am not too concerned. No way can you go through numbers of dog sales without some unhappy campers even if you are an angel.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

alpha tek kennels had a real professional looking website to, one would think they had a wonderful thing going and look where that ended up.

Holland I dont get you, your one liners serve no purpose in my opinion , and you throw alot of them out there with no backup..why bother? 

I remember reading about the 'cat' incident, the guy said the dog was fine with cats if I recall, and then the dog killed the person's cat..so maybe this buyer felt they coud "believe" him when he said, the dog is ok with cats..obviously it wasnt..

I tend to agree with Lee, and also agree I've seen some nice dogs come out of the kennel that I wouldn't mind owning..but it's always buyer beware and do your homework when dealing with ANYONE..some think the higher the price the better dog , not so in many cases..


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