# How does one find a responsible breeder



## Alexp08 (Nov 23, 2015)

So im thinking about getting a GSD. Ive been looking at some breeders around my area to get a good idea of gow they breed, socialization that they do etc. All im running into is shepherds out side breed stanards. Long coat and size are the big ones. Ive yet to see a father under 110lbs. So how/where should i go to find good breeders


----------



## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

"Responsible breeder" is a rather vague term, with many varying definitions. I wouldn't say the size of a dog is a black&white indicator of ir/responsible breeding. 

If you want a dog that's strictly within the bounds set by the GSD breed standard, you'll probably want to be looking at breeders that specialize in working lines. Beyond that, it's simply a question of research.


----------



## Alexp08 (Nov 23, 2015)

Okay, for me a responsible breeder follows akc/ukc guidelines for breed standards. Does breed in their bathroom lol feeds their pups quailty food and starts with socializing and basic training. Has a decent health guarantee. 

But if i get one that is say from a father of 120 and a mother of 95 itll naturally be on the larger end, would that increase the chance of health problems?


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Ehh, no the breed standard determined by GSDCof America is largely for judging AKC type conformation shows.

How to find a good breeder. 1. Start when you are not anxious to get a dog 2. Listen carefully 3. Know what you want to do with the dog [I was totally put off when I was first asked Why I wanted a dog -- Why would I not want a dog? Dogs are crucial element in my life. - not exactly what the guy wanted to know but] 4. Know what you like about the breed. 5. Ask for health clearances on both parents 6. Don't accept excuses, don't except preliminary clearances. 7. Listen carefully and evaluate what the person has to say. Carefully. 8. Find out how involved the breeder is with the breed. 
I would not be looking just "in my area". I'd go to a few GSD Club meetings; I'd go to a few working dog club meetings and talk to people there.
There are two breeders I would buy from. I know both personally. One doesn't have any dogs available and may never breed again. One is in Arkansas, one is in Oregon. I haven't looked at anyone else because I have no need to.


----------



## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

If you post your location, maybe someone here could point you in the right direction. Good luck


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

First, what do you want in a dog? There are different lines. 

AKC show line? go to conformation shows and AKC obedience/rally events. Look for local AKC clubs.

WGSL? Look on the GSDCA sites for shows and clubs.

Working line? Look on the USCA site for clubs and events.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Good question! I can understand how overwhelming it is when you don't know where to start - for me, (when I was a newbie still), I found a responsible breeder by being a member on this forum for a couple of years (so two years or reading about what makes a responsible breeder), and was actively involved in SchH/IPO with my mixed breed, so had hands-on experience with comparing nerves, drives, temperament, trainability, health etc . . . of dogs from various sources.

I think you have a good start already - you are on here asking questions, and you know that even though you are looking for a larger dog, breeders advertising 110 lb sires are not being responsible breeders. 

Best thing to do, is to take your time. From the time I decided to get a pup and started contacting breeders, it was over a year. Second is read, read, read!!! It will allow you to navigate the world of people breeding to produce puppies, and people breeding because they eat, live, breathe, sleep, dream GSDs, are actively involved in the world of GSDs, and are breeding to make GOOD dogs (watch out for breeders that gush that their breedings produce cute puppies - all puppies are cute!!! The end game for a GSD breeder is to produce a versatile dog that can be a great pet and house dog AND a working dog, and have produced the dogs that are out there being service dogs, SAR dogs, Police K9's, IPO/SchH dogs, Agility/Obedience/etc champions, and so on. 

(German Shepherd Breeders, by Wildhaus Kennels)

How to tell a good breeder website from a bad one | Ruffly Speaking


----------



## Alexp08 (Nov 23, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> First, what do you want in a dog? There are different lines.
> 
> AKC show line? go to conformation shows and AKC obedience/rally events. Look for local AKC clubs.
> 
> ...


Thanks for yhe advice guys! But what are WGSL.

And as far as what im looking out of a GSD is kind of the all around dog. I dont necessarily want a dog just for working. I want one that will exercise with me, but will also conpete in obedience, or tracking or retrieving. By no means do i expect to win but i think it be fun just to go and see what happens. 

For instance i bought my lab as a companion. I did no research and i think i got lucky with her lol. But i just learned about dock jumping and wanted to take her and do it sometime. By no means do i think shell win but well both have fun doing it. 

If that makes sense in stating what im looking for as far as what i want a GSD to do. As far as why i want one, for my lab to have someone to play with, for another dog to exerxise with, and of course i love dogs lol so why not , and like i said to compete in some of these events for fun


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

People seem to thing that working line means the dog has to work. That they have to be K9, do SAR, military. That's not true.

Working line is a line. They have a different look than show lines (either WGSL-West German Show Lines) and American. Within working lines there are more divisions...West German, Czech, DDR.

If you want a dog with working ability for sports, I would go with working line. Find a breeder that breeds the whole package. Go watch the dogs at trials and at clubs.


----------



## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Alexp08 said:


> But what are WGSL.


WGSL = West German Show Line.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

along with what Castlemaid posted(Wildhaus link)this guide has an overview of the lines, as well as suggests breeders(limited IMO!) but it is another stepping stone to understanding this breed. 
German Shepherd Guide - Home


----------



## Alexp08 (Nov 23, 2015)

Well i was told that show sheps are easier to socialize with cats. Thats why i was leaning more towards them


----------



## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Alexp08 said:


> Well i was told that show sheps are easier to socialize with cats.


That's a very loaded generalization.


----------



## Alexp08 (Nov 23, 2015)

onyx'girl said:


> along with what Castlemaid posted(Wildhaus link)this guide has an overview of the lines, as well as suggests breeders(limited IMO!) but it is another stepping stone to understanding this breed.
> German Shepherd Guide - Home


Thats a **** of a page with a lot of info lol


----------



## Alexp08 (Nov 23, 2015)

Theyre getting bigger!

Juat mesaaged someone who said the mom is 133 and the father os 123 :-/


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Another great link with tons of information is --> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html

Good luck and great you are doing your 'homework' before getting your next dog!


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Alexp08 said:


> Well i was told that show sheps are easier to socialize with cats. Thats why i was leaning more towards them


People make broad statements all the time. Are they thinking the dogs have less prey drive? My working line lives with a cat. Many working lines live with small animals and cats.

It's all in the individual breeding.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Alexp08 said:


> Well i was told that show sheps are easier to socialize with cats. Thats why i was leaning more towards them


Our working line does great with our cat, our black and red wgsl requires constant supervision, any movement from kitty and its game on for him.


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
> along with what Castlemaid posted(Wildhaus link)this guide has an overview of the lines, as well as suggests breeders(limited IMO!) but it is another stepping stone to understanding this breed.
> German Shepherd Guide - Home


Awesome site, thanks! I'm also in the early stages of finding a puppy.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Working lines CAN get along fine with cats....my female has HER OWN cat - my Bengal loves Csabre...she also loved my high energy young high power male and would cuddle up next to him - or whoever was on the loveseat regularly! That being said - yes, there are dogs who are cat obessed and are not good candidates to live with cats....

My current litter (being raised by a co-owner) has been exposed to cats since they could see, and as such, are going to be fine living with a cat given the cat does not get hysterical with the puppy!

Lots of good information in the links...

Something to remember - there are alot of big commercial breeders out there....they may pay lip service to health testing at a minimum. They make a living out of making litters, and target some market niche - often DDR dogs because "black sables" and dogs with big heads seem to be popular with John Q Public. The problem is that JQP does not understand the temperament of the "pure DDR" dog - the general lack of biddability, the health issues inherent by the inbreeding and close linebreeding on DDR dogs who are not the best dogs on which to linebreed.

I have looked at a couple of breeders websites who are very commercial recently....so many dogs and litters that it is pretty obvious their main, or major secondary, source of income is puppies. Nothing titled, generations after generations of untitled dogs, not going outside to good males, pedigrees that I know are rife with health problems....using dogs produced from a local trio of breeders a few years back who were madly producing Czech and DDR dogs until they put themselves out of business with so many dogs with HD, epilepsy and temperament issues....but their website touts their "commitment" to producing healthy dogs......

Now - I do love the DDR look - my first Sch3 female was mostly DDR - I KNOW the issues with training and working with a DDR dog and was absolutely drop dead lucky to have picked the right male for her first (and only) litter (a male who went sterile after producing that litter which we only found out after trying another time or two for another litter!).....

Find someone with a provable record of producing solid dogs who not only are good companions, but who are capable of working and being titled. Not every pup in every litter needs to go to a sport or working home - a balanced puppy of medium to low drive will make a great companion...but be sure that there are dogs working and titled from the breeder....and that the health certs are certifiable.


Lee


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

wolfstraum said:


> Working lines CAN get along fine with cats....my female has HER OWN cat - my Bengal loves Csabre...she also loved my high energy young high power male and would cuddle up next to him - or whoever was on the loveseat regularly! That being said - yes, there are dogs who are cat obessed and are not good candidates to live with cats....
> 
> My current litter (being raised by a co-owner) has been exposed to cats since they could see, and as such, are going to be fine living with a cat given the cat does not get hysterical with the puppy!
> Lee


Karlo loves kitties, he was obsessed with my Tortiecat Teddi. Very gentle with her.

I do think it all depends on the cat, though...if they tend to be calm and act like they own the place they control the situation...when they run in timidity, game on prey drive kicks in.


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

> Karlo loves kitties, he was obsessed with my Tortiecat Teddi. Very gentle with her.


SO cute, and totally true about the cat's personality. Out of our 5 cats, every one tells the dog what to do. Our one cat who runs is the only one that our Irish Terrier chases.


----------



## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

wolfstraum said:


> My current litter (being raised by a co-owner) has been exposed to cats since they could see, and as such, are going to be fine living with a cat given the cat does not get hysterical with the puppy!



Yes, my younger cat wanted to check out the puppies as soon as they were born...it was hard to keep him away for the first few weeks! He'd hop in for meals and loves to hang out with them at home. Our older cat also hangs out but isn't too crazy about him - he will swat the puppies if they get in his face. But he never uses his claws and I think it can't hurt that he's teaching them some respect!

Here he was trying to figure out how to get into their box...


Sharing dinner



Hanging out while making Christmas cookies - 2 cats, 6 puppies


They also love to hang out with our JRT's...our youngest is so happy to have puppies to play with!



The light blue puppy (Nuance) especially loved her Aunt Twister




They've gotten to meet our chickens outside briefly a few times, but I didn't get any photos of that.


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

What type of dog is Twister? Reminds me of our old Jack Russell, who was also raised with and adored cats - so funny.


----------



## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

misschung said:


> What type of dog is Twister? Reminds me of our old Jack Russell, who was also raised with and adored cats - so funny.


She is also a JRT


----------



## Manol Nakov (Feb 4, 2016)

Hello,

May be we all know what is really important when we are looking for a breeder, but still I find this article really useful. Did anyone else know something about this website, and is it actually a good idea to buy a puppy from there? 
How to Find a Responsible Dog Breeder | 2puppies.com

Thanks in advance


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Manol Nakov said:


> Hello,
> 
> May be we all know what is really important when we are looking for a breeder, but still I find this article really useful. Did anyone else know something about this website, and* is it actually a good idea to buy a puppy from there? *
> How to Find a Responsible Dog Breeder | 2puppies.com
> Thanks in advance


NO, find a different way to find a good breeder. The ads for the GSDs is one person, with very little info other than AKC and vaccinated...


----------



## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

My working line male is on the larger end of the scale (height) for GSD's. He is only 82 pounds. He is carrying some winter weight right now. He also is just 2 this month. He should fill out a bit more in the next couple years but I dont expect him to weigh more than 85lbs.


----------



## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Interesting post.

Have a friend that is going through this in another breed. He is digging through all the advertising, breeders claiming and/or inferring knowledge and experience. He is an IT exec, analyst by nature, and is frustrated with the, in his words, the amount of BS breeders that he has identified through sites, posts, claims. 

He is focused on what the breeder does, not what they claim. Confirming what they claim they do and research.


----------



## hemicop (Feb 13, 2016)

Good advice all around. May I add my 2 cents?
First know the Breed Standard ( the GERMAN one). Then decide what your idea of a GSD is. People will focus on one-part of the Standard & decide that's what they want. Then ask yourself what you're going to do with this dog & why you want him. Okay, so now you've done a little soul-searching and are ready to look. 
Find a breeder that fits YOU. Vague as that may seem, you'll be relying on him quite a bit. Interview him before you even start looking at pups. His experience, training , theories of training & breeding, why he does it, how he got into it, number of litters he produced, their health, all these things and more (based on his answers) are some of the questions you're entitled to ask & he should be willing to answer. Assuming you're happy so far, now ask for the papers of his breeding stock. THERE's the goldmine! Assuming you know how to read the paperwork (if not definitely bring someone along that can) he should be able to produce a pedigree, scorebook, show ratings and/or a Koer report, OFA or similar certification and proof of ownership of the dog. 
Reading each document may be difficult but they'll tell you a bunch. With the papers in hand, start looking at WHO, WHEN and WHERE these evaluations were given. It's not uncommon to train & title a dog for export & the dog never truly tested. At this point, you can start asking around about the clubs & Judges these evaluations were performed at and decide if they fit your expectations. 
Assuming all is still going well, now look at the pups. People have various "puppy tests" they like to perform & what they like to see so I'll leave it here. Of course if you're real comfortable with the breeder you could leave the evaluation to him, but I lie to assess things myself. ........Good Luck!


----------

