# Long coats



## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Can anyone tell me how long after birth it takes to determine if a pup is a long coat? 
My friend Michele (and owner to Gunner's sister) is getting a new pup and the litter is 3 days old. The breeder told her she may have some long coats and she does not want one.
So how long does it take to determine this and can they tell a long coat from a plush coat?


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

GSDGunner said:


> So how long does it take to determine this and can they tell a long coat from a plush coat?


There is no such thing as plush coat, genetically. Its a slang term for when the coat appears to be inbetween stock and long stock.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

An experienced breeder who frequently has coaties pop up in their litters can usually tell earlier than a breeder who rarely does. I've known of breeders who can tell by around 4 weeks old and are always right, one says she closes her eyes and feels the fur if she's not completely sure yet. I know of other pups where by 8 or 9 weeks nobody is completely sure how it will turn out! 

Your friend's breeder is almost certainly basing her prediction on previous litters by the parents - if both of them are known carriers of the recessive gene, it's likely there will be a coatie or two in the bunch. I don't think ANYONE can tell when a puppy is just a few days old.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Lin said:


> There is no such thing as plush coat, genetically. Its a slang term for when the coat appears to be inbetween stock and long stock.


Sorry, I know nothing regarding coats. But thanks for the explanation.


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## lisgje (Sep 3, 2010)

Shane was long haired and stunning! I could tell at 10 wks when I got him. Much more fluffy, had tufts on his ears and longer hair on his feet.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Stosh is long coated and the breeder was fairly certain at about 4 wks that he would be and by the time I picked him up at 8 wks it was more obvious. There were 3 out of the litter of 6.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Can you spot the longcoat/s in this picture of Dena's litter?










How many are there?


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I say two...the loner in the back and the green collar.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Oh forgot to mention..they are soooo cute!


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> An experienced breeder who frequently has coaties pop up in their litters can usually tell earlier than a breeder who rarely does. I've known of breeders who can tell by around 4 weeks old and are always right, one says she closes her eyes and feels the fur if she's not completely sure yet. I know of other pups where by 8 or 9 weeks nobody is completely sure how it will turn out!
> 
> Your friend's breeder is almost certainly basing her prediction on previous litters by the parents - if both of them are known carriers of the recessive gene, it's likely there will be a coatie or two in the bunch. I don't think ANYONE can tell when a puppy is just a few days old.


I don't know how many coaties she's produced over the years but I was just curious as to when they can tell. 
I assume she's speculating because of the sire or dams history (I believe this is the dams second litter but have no clue of the sire's history but I'm sure she does). So she may be just warning her in the event there is a long coat in the bunch. Especially since Michele is down the list for a female and wants to prepare her just in case. 

I don't want her to get her hopes up and find that her pup is a long coat.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> I say two...the loner in the back and the green collar.


Winner! :groovy:

The loner is Dena, here she is at a month old - you can see that the breeder has already identified her as a fuzzy, what she calls the LCs










Green collar was Mr. Fuzzy.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

They always have the appearance of more volume to them due to the hair. They make some of the most adorable babies!


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Can you spot the longcoat/s in this picture of Dena's litter?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No clue! I have absolutely no qualifications to see that. 

Is it common to have more than one in a litter? Meaning if there IS one, is it likely there would be more than one?


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> They always have the appearance of more volume to them due to the hair. They make some of the most adorable babies!


No doubt! All GSD's are adorable. :wub:
I personally wouldn't mind a long coat, I think they're gorgeous. 
I think my friend wants one to remind her of the one she just lost.
Can't say I blame her, she was a beauty.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I'll bet if you saw them in person you could tell the difference (even at that age). They just have a certain look to them...as I mentioned, volume.

No they aren't limited to one per litter. If it's in the parents genes there will more than likely be a mix of coaties and stocks.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> I'll bet if you saw them in person you could tell the difference (even at that age). They just have a certain look to them...as I mentioned, volume.


I guess that would be true if a breeder has seen them before. Especially one who's been breeding for so many years (although just a few litters a year).

But I honestly don't know if she sees it, or is just speculating so as not to disappoint in the event there are a few.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

If they are just a week old, she can't tell yet, basing it on possbilities. Keep us posted on it.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

A lot of LC puppies seem to have a different head shape than their siblings, fuller or something, even if the fur isn't all that long yet. I'm obviously no expert, but from having 3 LCs now I know what mine looked like at different stages of development so I'm pretty good at guessing which are coaties if I see pictures of a litter. Not so much an individual puppy, but by how they compare to their littermates.

If both parents are stock coats and they carry the LC gene, approximately 25% of the puppies they produce together would be LCs. But that's an average, so if they had several litters there could be more in one litter and less in another. Dena was one of 2, Keefer was the only one, and Halo was also one of 2.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I thought 2 - and you confirmed it earlier

I have only had one litter with coaties....had 3 of 7 males.....and suspected it by 4 weeks ....

Lee


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

The breeder I bought Hondo from has had two litters by the same pair. So far, Hondo is the only LH from both litters. 

I have to agree about the head shape. Hondo wasn't a very cute puppy. Couldn't put your finger on it. Just didn't look quiet right.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

All 3 LCs in Stosh's litter were males- now that you mention it, they looked alike but rather different than the other 3. I'll see if I can find a picture


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Lin said:


> There is no such thing as plush coat, genetically. Its a slang term for when the coat appears to be inbetween stock and long stock.


Three genetic coats of a German Shepherd

1. Stock coat
2. Long Stock Coat (often refer to as plush coat)
3. Long Coat (like a Collie coat)


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi . Long coats tend to have a lower station , a little heavier bone , a broader head. It is due to the regional herding dogs that were used in the recipe for the GSD in the begining. Temperament tends to be "better" .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Doc said:


> Three genetic coats of a German Shepherd
> 
> 1. Stock coat
> 2. Long Stock Coat (often refer to as plush coat)
> 3. Long Coat (like a Collie coat)


That's not what people refer to as plush coat though. You see it all over the forums, its called plush as if its a genetic coat. People can refer to anything from a fuller stock coat to a shorter long stock as plush.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Doc said:


> Three genetic coats of a German Shepherd
> 
> 1. Stock coat
> 2. Long Stock Coat (often refer to as plush coat)
> 3. Long Coat (like a Collie coat)


My understanding is that the stock coat is the usual coat seen on most German Shepherds. The long stock coat is what many people refer to as a "coat" -- it has an undercoat. The long coat is seldom seen and it has no undercoat. I saw some first hand that were from a German show line/American show line cross.


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## CHawkins (Jul 12, 2010)

I have a LH. I need to go back and look at her head in a picture with a few of her siblings...besides the coat I had never heard of this...interesting!


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## lanaw13 (Jan 8, 2011)

Osa is a "coat" Here is her head








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More pics needed?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Daphne's correct, both long stock and long coat are coaties. The difference is presence of an undercoat. A long stock has an undercoat, and a long coat does not. Long coats lacking undercoat are very rare. Most coaties are long stock coats, and usually both types are just lumped into being called "long coats" by most people most of the time.

There is no such thing as "plush" in terms of coat type. It's a laymen's term used to describe a dog's coat, but means different things to different people. Some use plush to refer to a thicker, fuller, slightly longer than the norm regular stock coat, and others use plus to refer to a shorter, less fluffy long stock coat.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

carmspack said:


> Hi . Long coats tend to have a lower station , a little heavier bone , a broader head. It is due to the regional herding dogs that were used in the recipe for the GSD in the begining. Temperament tends to be "better" .
> Carmen


Carmen have you ever seen the *Altdeutscher Huetehunde* on this link? (26 dog down on the Breed Type page)
Breed Types & Related Families

This dog reminds me of a lot of the longcoats, including my own.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Experienced breeders can often, but (not always) tell "coaties" by the time their eyes start to open.
The face on the "coatie" has a unique look......_easiest way to describe it._


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## SuzanneK (Mar 16, 2011)

My Jaeger was a "coatie." Looked like a baby bear when he was younger...  Best dog ever...miss him loads


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Carmen have you ever seen the *Altdeutscher Huetehunde* on this link? (26 dog down on the Breed Type page)
> Breed Types & Related Families
> 
> This dog reminds me of a lot of the longcoats, including my own.


The dog you showed in that pic has a very similar coat to Tanner's. 

But I could be wrong about his coat. Tanner's coat is indeed longer than Molly's and looks different. Molly is a stock coat. So I am guess Tanner is a LH GSD?


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## suze (Mar 12, 2011)

One of the posts describes the long coats as having a "better" temp, is that correct


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> The dog you showed in that pic has a very similar coat to Tanner's.
> 
> But I could be wrong about his coat. Tanner's coat is indeed longer than Molly's and looks different. Molly is a stock coat. So I am guess Tanner is a LH GSD?


From the pictures I've seen I'd say no.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Lin said:


> From the pictures I've seen I'd say no.


Thought so. Someone has a LH GSD near me. Big difference.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Andaka said:


> My understanding is that the stock coat is the usual coat seen on most German Shepherds. The long stock coat is what many people refer to as a "coat" -- it has an undercoat. The long coat is seldom seen and it has no undercoat. I saw some first hand that were from a German show line/American show line cross.


See, and then I start to get confused, LOL. I just posted about my Sasha tonight. Is she a LC.

I did spot the 2 LC pups in the picture though!


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