# Rescued German Shepherds - Your Thoughts



## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I am a foster for rescue GSD's, have adopted a rescue, and also have a dog I got from a breeder.

For those of you that do foster work, and those that have adopted a rescue GSD, I wonder if there is any single thing that stands up about these rescues.

In my experience it is how grateful the rescue dog is to be in a good home. The dog can formally be described in a manner that runs the gamut between shy to vicious. But once in a decent environment they settle and are content. In my case they have to learn to get along with my other shepherds, but always have.

Of course, outside the home can be different.


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

I think they know they have been saved and seem to respond that way. I think their loyalty can even be stronger than with a dog who has not known hardship.


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## MassiChewSits (Mar 10, 2009)

A question I would like to ask the Rescuers everywhere: 

In the case of rescued GSD puppies, how do you deal with a potential adopters fear of genetic disease or an inherited poor temperament? What can you say to those who have this concern.

In my case, this was one of 3 reasons I commited to getting my first GSD pup through a breeder. Since I'm a novice to the breed, my fear of hip dysplasia,amongst other things,may seem unreasonable to a rescuer and disproportionate to the actual occurence of the problem. 

I went this route despite my childhood dog, a great family dog, was an mb from a shelter. I admittedly feel some guilt going this route.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Well, the thing is that while getting a pup from a reputable breeder will cut down on the chances of genetic health or temperament problems, compared to a pup of unknown parentage, it won't eliminate them entirely. Genetics doesn't work that way.

The only sure way to know if a dog has genetic health or temperament problems is to wait until it is mature enough to be tested, and then have it evaluated. X-rays for HD and ED, blood panel, temperament tested by an experienced traininer/behaviorist, etc...

Most rescues don't have the funds to be doing all those health tests with dogs in their rescue, but I'm sure they'd be willing to have it done if the potential adopter would foot the bill... and end cost even with adoption fee and all the health and temperament testing under the sun wouldn't come out to more than the cost of a pup from a reputable breeder.

So it really comes down to the pup vs adult question and whether the person looking for a dog is set on a pup, or will consider an older dog. Older dogs are always more of a sure thing. With pups, there is no way to predict adult health or temperament with certainty, so stacking the odds by going with known bloodlines/breeder is prehaps the safer bet.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Rescue dogs are a result of somebody's breeding so they are originally dogs from breeders. They are not brought into the world by a stork. There are no guarantees in life, even puppies from the best breeders can have health problems. Children from healthy parents can have problems too. 
I rescued a retired police dog that was dumped at a shelter. He was imported from Germany from top working lines as a 2yo dog with an Sch1 title (and probably cost quite a bit). He had pannus, EPI and diabates insipidus, all genetic. He was a wonderful dog and died a year later of cancer. It was an honor having him in my life in spite of the health problems. BTW all the health problems did not prevent him from being a very successful police dog. A dog does not have to be perfectly healthy to make a great pet.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Getting a dog from a rescue that places dogs in foster homes can, in general, answer any questions as to the dog's temperament. Getting a dog from a shelter will leave a lot more questions unanswered.

I got Luc from a rescue (foster home) and his temperament has always been what I expected based on the foster home experience. I got Teagan from a shelter, and I knew I was running a risk going that route. To be honest, while I love her to pieces, and love her b/c she is a difficult dog, I doubt I would've adopted her if I'd been fully aware of what she is like. Frankly, I doubt any rescue would've adopted her out, rather I would expect most with knowledge of her wiring would have put her down. Neb I got from a rescue (foster home) as a puppy but based on how I observed him in the litter prior to him coming home he's lived up to my expectations thus far.

I've never bought a dog (or any animal) though I wouldn't rule out going to a breeder if I wanted a dog for a specific working purpose (not sport unless I wanted to compete seriously at a high level, b/c you can do protection sports with rescues as long as they've got the temperament and drives). But rescue is my preference. I have no problem with reputable breeders though, I think they are important.

But given that I have no experience with a bought dog, I can't compare them to rescues in terms of personality/temperament, or, to Timber1's question, point to something that they share that a dog from a breeder wouldn't.


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

You do get some opportunity to "filter" a dog from a rescue. The best you are going to do though is get an idea of termperment and a look at current health. Clover has been wonderful that way.

Max on the other hand we got right from a shelter and he has been a trip. We have had issues with the cats, other dogs and a number of health issues. Yes he came from a breeder somewhere, but I would bet all my money it was somebody's back yard at best. Had he gone through a rescue, the temperment issues could have been worked on by an experienced person, but the health issues would still be there. Had they manifested themselves early in that process, he might not have made it out to anyone excpet a permanent foster....who know's.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1
> 
> In my experience it is how grateful the rescue dog is to be in a good home.


I have also noticed this in rescue dogs, as well as in 2 dogs we acquired as adults for breeding purposes, who'd lived their whole lives up until that point as kennel dogs and had been through at least a couple previous homes where they'd been more or less treated as commodities. We saw that same gratitude once they settled in here and adjusted to their new lives being house/companion dogs with us.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Chris Wild
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Timber1
> ...


Is their happiness/gratitude at being in a good home different than your dogs that have been with your their whole lives? Would you say your dogs that have been with you their whole lives take you for granted?

All my dogs are happy to be with me, and expressive of that....but Neb for instance - I got him from a rescue, and yes, his mother had bounced from puppy mill to shelter to rescue and he bounced from shelter to rescue (he was in utero at the mill....he's not even a PB or a normal mix/designer dog that I would expect from a mill), but I've had him from 6 weeks, so his life experience is completely different from Luc's and Teagan's. He's more like a 'bought' dog in the sense he hasn't been bounced around, and I'm not sure what I would point to different in him that I wouldn't put down to breed differences. 

This thread is making me think about the 'dogs live in the moment' adage. Sure, they can be conditioned to respond to people based on negative or positive stimuli, depending on their previous lives. But gratefulness for a good home - I could see them being responsive to the positive stimuli a good home provides, but doesn't gratefulness describe a level of self-consciousness that based on my understanding at least, dogs don't possess?


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## MassiChewSits (Mar 10, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDRescue dogs are a result of somebody's breeding so they are originally dogs from breeders. They are not brought into the world by a stork. ....


Is this sarcasm?


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Too often people talk about "rescue dogs" and "breeder dogs" as if they were completely different things. I think her point is just that genetically the purebred dogs in rescue and the purebred dogs purchased from breeders are the same dogs. They all originate with breeders somewhere - good, bad, and everything in between.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

"Is their happiness/gratitude at being in a good home different than your dogs that have been with your their whole lives? Would you say your dogs that have been with you their whole lives take you for granted?"

No, the dog that has been with me since a pup, gotten from a breeder, knows he is here forever, and does not require the attention my adopted one does, nor my rescue Maia, who has some issues. The adopted one, taken at six years of age. Very shy, and on my end I am very gentle with her. The new one, her only desire is to attack strange dogs, and before being returned attacked a lab and broke her jaw and top teeth. She is thw subject of a different post. 

Regarding health issues, our rescue will resolve any known health problems. However, if you adopt a pup, it is best to get the hips X-rayed early on. If you know a good vet that can evaluate the dog, it is reasonable. Genetics, I have no idea, temperment issues I don't buy. You can work with the dog.

As for Taegan, our rescue group would not put her down. We have not put down a dog in over three years. I saw the prior posts regarding Taegan, and believe me we have had much more difficult dogs.

The original post, the best thing about rescue dogs.


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## MassiChewSits (Mar 10, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: pupresqToo often people talk about "rescue dogs" and "breeder dogs" as if they were completely different things. I think her point is just that genetically the purebred dogs in rescue and the purebred dogs purchased from breeders are the same dogs. They all originate with breeders somewhere - good, bad, and everything in between.


I would think that most(not all) rescue puppies (not adult GSD's) came out from a backyard breeder with little regard for genetics or a healthy environment to grown in. It is my understanding that ethical breeders,those that would be careful breeding practices, make it a contractual obligation that the pup be returned to them if the adopter wants to give it up. If ethical breeders are taking back their "unwanted" dogs, I would assume most pups in the rescue pool are coming from poor breeders whose practices increase the chances of passing genetic disease.

In my region , rescue(and shelter) pups are rare. One person from the local rescue told me they are very wary of puppies in the south in need of rescue because of rampant parvo. I suppose the cost of rescuing puppies from other parts of the country is daunting. If you want a rescue puppy up here it is not that easy. 

I believe all dogs are equally in need of love and caring no matter who breeds them. Yet as first timer with GSD's, I believe my chances for a healthy puppy as increased(not guaranteed) by going through an ethical breeder. With this concern I would distinguish between thoughtfully bred and poorly bred dogs. My childhood dog was a mixed breed from a shelter and she was a great family dog. But GSD's have well-publicized health issues, so I would like to know at least something about the parents.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1
> As for Taegan, our rescue group would not put her down. We have not put down a dog in over three years. I saw the prior posts regarding Taegan, and believe me we have had much more difficult dogs.


Rescue groups here neither take on nor adopt out aggressive dogs, like Teagan. That's impressive yours takes on the associated liability.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

"If ethical breeders are taking back their "unwanted" dogs, I would assume most pups in the rescue pool are coming from poor breeders whose practices increase the chances of passing genetic disease."

Wrong...you'd be oh so surprised..........


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## MassiChewSits (Mar 10, 2009)

As for the OP, as I person who never owned a GSD:

I think the best thing about an ADULT rescue GSD is the fact that are most likely great dogs, who have been tested by and fostered experts of the breed.

I novice like myself would have the opportunity to share his life with a dog who is,for the most part a known quantity with few bad surprises.
This would be my guess...but the wife wanted a puppy.


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## MassiChewSits (Mar 10, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: myamom"If ethical breeders are taking back their "unwanted" dogs, I would assume most pups in the rescue pool are coming from poor breeders whose practices increase the chances of passing genetic disease."
> 
> Wrong...you'd be oh so surprised..........


Ok, I am here to be educated....without any sarcasm.

You have a story about an "ethical" breeder who will not take back their pups?


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I would say if you want a puppy from known well-bred parents with health clearances and guarantees, you will have to go with a reputable breeder. It is also true that you will not find puppies from reputable breeders in rescue - if you did, the breeders would not be reputable. 

It is not true that puppies adopted out by rescues are sick puppies with parvo, many health problems and behavior problems. We have been following the litter of puppies rasied in our rescue - they all are in great health and have wonderful temperaments in addition to looking great. Their owners are very happy with them. The mom belonged to a backyard breeder who dumped her - she was in horrible condition when she came to us.

As to breeders taking responsibility for dogs and taking them back - very often that does not happen. We see dogs with impressive pedigrees from well known kennels/breeders in rescue. The police dog I rescued was bought by the police from a very well known breeder in Germany and had all the health clearances required by the police. The pannus and EPI showed up years after purchase.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

By definition a breeder who does not take back their pups is not considered "ethical" in the rescue community. The board does not allow posting negative information on breeders.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote:Ok, I am here to be educated....without any sarcasm.


Fair enough. Okay, the first thing is the term "ethical." I'll agree with you in as much as I don't think it's "ethical" not to take a dog back so the people that don't are by definition not ethical. But truly "ethical" breeders are few and far between. What rescuers see daily are breeders with good reputations who are producing "high quality" dogs (that is dogs with appropriate titles and health screenings) and then not keeping up with what happens to them and not being willing to take them back when they wind up in trouble. Especially if the dog turns up with a health or behavioral issues, but even just in general. As Rebel said, we're not allowed to post about it but every now and then you'll actually see one admit it to refusing to take back a dog straight up. 

Another source of well-bred rescue dogs are the dogs one generation removed from the original breeder. So "ethical" breeder Jane Doe sells a puppy to buyer Bob. Maybe she sells the dog with limited registration, maybe she doesn't. Plenty of well-respected breeders sell with full registrations but in this day of nothing registries it can end up making little difference. So anyway, Bob buys his extremely well-bred dog. Bob decides he's going to breed his dog. Maybe he choses a similarly well bred mate or maybe he doesn't. But now Bob can't sell all his puppies and they wind up at the shelter or he sells them to a petstore, as we saw on this board recently. Or perhaps he sells them all but not all the homes work out and those dogs wind up in need of rescue. 

I have asked this question on the board many times and there is not a breeder here who will commit to taking back dogs one generation out from their breeding. You can consider that ethical or not. On some level, I see their point. And of course there are plenty of cases where they don't even know it's happening. However, these are indisputably dogs from excellent pedigrees and their lines that find themselves homeless and at rescue's doorstep (if they're lucky). Well bred dogs in rescue are quite common.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

In my experience rescue dogs are more appreciative of love, attention and care than the dogs I raised since they were puppies (three of them). They all adore me and are loyal, however, the rescue dogs have the extra component contrasted to my spoiled brats who never experienced a bad day. I know dogs are not supposed to be capable of "appreciation" but that contradicts my experience.


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: MassiChewSits If ethical breeders are taking back their "unwanted" dogs, I would assume most pups in the rescue pool are coming from poor breeders whose practices increase the chances of passing genetic disease.


We have gotten in several dogs from well known so called ethical breeders, tattooed, papered sometimes pink papered....all dogs in rescue are not the byb rejects. I say so called b/c I know they aren't ethical b/c they wouldn't take them back, but to the general public they still have good reps. We've gotten imported dogs and SchH3 champions. Some dumped at shelters with paperwork and that is how we know, some have tattoos that we trace and some came from owners....all ended up in homes that applied looking for a rescue dog and ended up with a dog they could trace their health and hip history with the pedigrees. If you are patient and wait for the right dog, you can get just about anything you want from a rescue. We have placed a dog as a working prison patrol dog and one who is an certified assistance dog and we are a relatively small rescue.

That said, maintaining support for good, ethical breeders like Wildhaus and Vom Landholz and others on this board, are crucial to keeping our beloved breed going. If not for responsible breeding and keeping the good genetics going our breed would deteriorate more in the hands of crappy breeders just looking to make $$$. Support needs to be shown for reputable rescues and breeders who are trying to better the breed because when it comes down to it, rescues educating the public about responsible dog ownership and spaying and neutering goes hand in hand with good breeders only breeding the best two GSD's available to each other with health and temperament checks in place!


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## lsoilm1936 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: AvamomThat said, maintaining support for good, ethical breeders like Wildhaus and Vom Landholz and others on this board, are crucial to keeping our beloved breed going. If not for responsible breeding and keeping the good genetics going our breed would deteriorate more in the hands of crappy breeders just looking to make $$$. Support needs to be shown for reputable rescues and breeders who are trying to better the breed because when it comes down to it, rescues educating the public about responsible dog ownership and spaying and neutering goes hand in hand with good breeders only breeding the best two GSD's available to each other with health and temperament checks in place!


Absolutely!


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Let me be very nice about this. In most cases, the dogs many call aggressive or violent, are simply not that way.

How many rescues have you taken that have been aggressive, violent or difficult to deal with in your home.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I think we've all had the experience of going to see a dog that was billed as "aggressive" or "out of control" etc or even a dog that legitimately is behaving badly in the shelter environment, but then pulling the dog and finding a GSD who was simply misunderstood or badly handled. However, anyone who has been doing rescue for many years has also had the experience of pulling a dog that either wasn't billed as aggressive or that you thought would be okay out of the shelter and ending up with dog that is legitimately dangerous. And sadly there are a lot of Shepherds who are legitimately dangerous from a placement perspective but which are managable and trustworthy within their home or in a carefully controlled environment. It is very hard to know what to do with a dog like that. You don't feel right euthanizing them as you might in a more clear cut case of rage syndrome or something, however, there is a significant liability issue with placing a dog that you know will bite. 

If I place a known biter I risk my ability to save any more dogs ever if it results in me losing my rescue. And in a bad insurance situation it could also result in my losing my house etc. That's a pretty huge risk. I am attracted to the "difficult" dogs and have a major soft spot for the fear aggressive but when it comes to placing a dog like that, you have to be extremely careful for the new owner's sake, for the dog's sake, and for your own and the rescue's sake.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote:I know dogs are not supposed to be capable of "appreciation" but that contradicts my experience.


Yeah, me too. It really does seem like the understand how bad things _can_ be and they take nothing good in their lives for granted. I don't know how, but it sure seems that way.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

One such dog. Identified as such by several extremely experienced trainers who are using to handling high drive, aggressive dogs. 

Sorry, I wasn't aware we were having an argument?????

I agree with all that Pupresq said. I know of dogs considered aggressive that aren't really, just don't have boundaries. But some dogs are. 

All of the rescues here I know, and I have ties to several, would not place a known biter or dog with an aggressive history, for the reasons Pupresq said. Your rescue is unusual, in my experience, or at least different from rescues around here, in doing so.


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

I did a temp foster for a local rescue group for a young female that the shelter who had her labelled her as dog aggressive and warned she could not be with other dogs.

We took her to meet the rescue person at one of her other fosters. We brought the dog over to the back yard and true to what we were told she reacted to the first dog she encountered. Our contact immediately got ahold of her snout, gave her an AMAZING lecture, and that was the end of the aggressive behavior. Before we left there we witnessed this "aggressive" dog playing gleefully in the backyard with three other shepherds. She has since been placed in a home with another dog and they are inseperable.

That really showed me the value of an experienced person evaluating and conditioning a dog that is now an asset to the breed and a loving companion for someone.


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## lesslis (Sep 23, 2007)

I have 2 rescues, one found as a 3-4wk old pup who is now 3 and a 11 yr old adopted when she was 9. Both have been great pets.The previous owner of the 11 yr old said she ran away daily and would jump fences. My first thought was "9' yrs old and jumps 6ft fences?" this could be fun!!!! After 2 yrs she hasn't jumped a fence yet and not thrilled about getting to far away from me much less run away. The 3yr old is teaching me tracking, Ob, and a lot of patience. They both are preparing me for my 'working GSD" that I will buy from a reputable breeder.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: jarnIs their happiness/gratitude at being in a good home different than your dogs that have been with your their whole lives? Would you say your dogs that have been with you their whole lives take you for granted?


I certainly wouldn't say the dog's we've had their whole lives take anything for granted, but there definitely is a difference between them. And incidentally, the dogs we acquired as young dogs who also lived normal lives before coming here have been no different from the ones we raised from birth. It's the ones who spent many years being passed from home to home, living in kennels, never treated as companions, who have the different attitude. And there is definitely a difference there, as others have noted in dogs of similiar history.



> Originally Posted By: jarnThis thread is making me think about the 'dogs live in the moment' adage. Sure, they can be conditioned to respond to people based on negative or positive stimuli, depending on their previous lives. But gratefulness for a good home - I could see them being responsive to the positive stimuli a good home provides, but doesn't gratefulness describe a level of self-consciousness that based on my understanding at least, dogs don't possess?


I think in many ways dogs are capable of more than we give them credit for. The fact that they live in the moment doesn't mean they don't also remember the past. Do they sit and reflect on it like people do? Of course not. But there are residual memories, feelings and behavioral patterns tied in to the past.

I think much of this gets to the heart of what is the single most important thing for any social animal: a stable, comfortable pack. The greatest fear any dog has is being isolated, or being eliminated from a pack. They crave companionship not just on a conscious level, but also on an instinctual level. This is hardwired into their brains. A social animal without a pack is, in the wild, a dead animal. So it speaks not only to happiness, but to the dog's very survival.

Considering that, I don't think it at all unusual for a dog who has never experienced that basic need, or who has gone through many upheavals of home/pack, and therefore has undergone years of stress because of it, when it finally lands a stable, cohesive pack with no worries of getting booted or isolated again, it reacts differently than a dog who has always had those very basic, instinctual needs met and therefore hasn't undergone the same anxiety.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Jarn,

a quick note. Our rescue would never place a known biter with anyone. A dog with an aggressive record toward humans, would also never be placed, unless it was clear rehab worked. 

Thanks to a friend and trainer we do have a fallback position. He has and continues to take the dogs we feel we cannot place. As I understand at somepoint we cut off fundng and the boarding expenses, and the dogs are his. A few are are still with him, and a few have been placed. None have been out to death.

My original post dealt with the fact that I have yet to take in a rescue, that was not friendly in my home, and happy to be here. 

That is the number 1 positive about rescues. The issues some of you raised do surface with a few. Then we decide whether to work with rehabbing the dog, via foster or trainer, or at some point turn the dog's ownership over to the trainer.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Fair enough, that makes total sense to me. That's great you guys have that resource of your friend/trainer. 

This post did make me look at Neb more last night, b/c while he's a rescue, he's been with me since 6 weeks, vs. Luc and Teagan who were bounced around (well, Luc was in a shelter for 3 years, and then foster for 6 weeks, so he didn't bounce that much, but it was hardly an ideal situation). 

Neb is a lot more independent, whereas both Luc and Teagan like to stick by me. Teagan will go do her own thing sometimes but she'll come to whereever I am every 5 minutes or so, say hi, and then leave again. 

I've always put those types of differences down to GSD vs. Husky mix. Maybe life experience is also a contributing factor though.

Chris: I do think dog's pasts inform them, absolutely - but I just wasn't sure if gratitude was more of human concept than a dog one. Dunno.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote:I think much of this gets to the heart of what is the single most important thing for any social animal: a stable, comfortable pack. The greatest fear any dog has is being isolated, or being eliminated from a pack. They crave companionship not just on a conscious level, but also on an instinctual level. This is hardwired into their brains. A social animal without a pack is, in the wild, a dead animal. So it speaks not only to happiness, but to the dog's very survival.
> 
> Considering that, I don't think it at all unusual for a dog who has never experienced that basic need, or who has gone through many upheavals of home/pack, and therefore has undergone years of stress because of it, when it finally lands a stable, cohesive pack with no worries of getting booted or isolated again, it reacts differently than a dog who has always had those very basic, instinctual needs met and therefore hasn't undergone the same anxiety.


Beautifully put!


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

They are all so different as you touched on. My recues have all been GSD's, and each has their own mannerisms, behavior, favorite toys, and temperment.

But every single one has settled and gets along well with my dogs.
That is the underlying reason why I feel that they can be placed, in the right home.


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## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

All of my shepherds have been rescues of late. I love rescuing, and I have the utmost respect for the people who pull off those rescues. I do screen, and I travel long distances for my dogs, but it is something I will likely do til the day I die. One sad thing about rescue shepherds, it takes about a year before they really 100% trust you. For instance, it took a long time before Hannah and Sable could get into my car and drive off without them wondering, is this the time he dumps us, and we will never see him again??


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

Our first pure bred was from a rescue group and we got our second straight from the shelter. I see us always having rescues. It did not take a year for Clover to trust us and Max knew he had it licked from day one, but then he was in a terrible situation. We went the rescue route because I did not want to do another puppy after bringing up our first two mixes as puppies. I'm so glad we did. I would highly recommend it to any and all who want a GSD (or any breed for that matter)


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Some take forever to bond, but with mine most are just darn happy to be in a good situation, which of course makes them hard to give up.

The second rescue I fostered, I adopted. She has been with me over a year, and yet is still a bit leery. Others I foster, LOL in a few hours they think they have gone to heaven.


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