# This is why people get bit



## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

I took Berlin to the pumpkin patch yesterday. This place is huge, also has the worlds largest corn maze....so it attracts many tourists, I guess you can say. Well, Berlin was on his best behavior, he was getting a lot of attention, but most people asked before they pet him. EXCEPT...one guy.

This guy (he was foreign so he didn't speak English) comes up to Berlin LIKE he knows him and starts riling him up, playing rough with him. This all happened so fast I was confused because I wasn't sure if I knew this person or not? (I couldnt see his face at first) Well now Berlin thought it was play time and was jumping up at the guy - and the guy kept going! 

He is then pulling my dogs skin, and rubbing my dogs face so hard I thought his skin was gonna rip off - Berlin was visibly irritated and trying to ignore the guy so I tried to go. The whole group he was with wanted pictures of this guy doing this to my dog. Um, no. I tried to tell this guy to stop, but he didn't understand. I finally managed to pull my dog away and leave. But geez, I wouldn't have felt bad if Berlin DID bite him cause he deserved it coming up to a dog and doing that. I swear, its almost like he was TRYING to agitate my dog. :thinking:


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Kudos to your training and to Berlin for not biting the guy. People can be weird. I'm surprised the guy never tried to communicate with you at all. 

Had one of my boys out at a Pets and Pumpkins street festival yesterday and was constantly amazed at how many people would just run up and start touching him. Good thing he loves people and attention.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Kahrg4 said:


> Kudos to your training and to Berlin for not biting the guy. People can be weird. I'm surprised the guy never tried to communicate with you at all.
> 
> Had one of my boys out at a Pets and Pumpkins street festival yesterday and was constantly amazed at how many people would just run up and start touching him. Good thing he loves people and attention.


Yeah, Berlin has been accompanying me everywhere since i've had him, and I am shocked how many people (mostly kids!) just RUN up to him and touch him. I am very glad I socialized the crap out of him. My guy loves attention too, I am glad, but this kind of attention was a little too much. He liked it at first, but then with the freaky rubbing and pulling my dogs skin, Berlin was like...uh okay guy go away. I am surprised the guy never tried to communicate either. He didn't even really look at me. My sister and I were just so weirded out by the whole thing.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

When Echo was about 9 months old, we had to take him on a ferry. He was very nervous, visibly so, and laying under the bench underneath me. I turned around to hand something to my husband (I was still sitting down, immediately above where he was laying). I turn back around and a guy is putting his INFANT son in my dog's face, his hands ON his face, telling him to pet the doggie. Echo didn't do anything, but I asked the guy if he was insane and told him that putting his BABY in the face of any strange dog, let alone one who was agitated, was probably the stupidest thing I'd ever seen. 

The stupidity of people blow my mind. And the scariest thing is that no matter how good of a watch you keep (I was sitting ON mine, for pete's sake), it just takes a second for someone to be an idiot.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

LoveEcho said:


> When Echo was about 9 months old, we had to take him on a ferry. He was very nervous, visibly so, and laying under the bench underneath me. I turned around to hand something to my husband (I was still sitting down, immediately above where he was laying). I turn back around and a guy is putting his INFANT son in my dog's face, his hands ON his face, telling him to pet the doggie. Echo didn't do anything, but I asked the guy if he was insane and told him that putting his BABY in the face of any strange dog, let alone one who was agitated, was probably the stupidest thing I'd ever seen.
> 
> The stupidity of people blow my mind. And the scariest thing is that no matter how good of a watch you keep (I was sitting ON mine, for pete's sake), it just takes a second for someone to be an idiot.


Was that guy CRAZY?  geez, some people...I swear. I agree, all it takes is one second for someone to do something stupid. And the crappy part of all this, is IF this guy DID get bit for agitating MY dog, my dog looks like the bad guy then. And then its MY fault. Sigh.


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## happyblond (Sep 14, 2012)

I agree some people are fools sometime people who own dog even more so as i witness, the other day in the pet store a lady who had a gsd pup starts talking to another lady who has a huge pure black gsd im paying for my stuff and was standing very close so i could hear there whole convosation and clearly hear the black gsd owner say her dog love other dogs but is very nervous of people the puppy owner the procedes to start trying to stroke the black gsd he avoids her hand she trys more than onece more before the dog very gentley mouths her hand and moved next to his owner out of the way the conversation lasted about 5 mins most of the time she was trying to stroke the black gsd 
if this was my dog i would have walked away almost instantley im glad she diddent get bitten but i would have been her own fault if she did and i wouldent have been surprised.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

gsdlover91 said:


> Was that guy CRAZY?  geez, some people...I swear. I agree, all it takes is one second for someone to do something stupid. And the crappy part of all this, is IF this guy DID get bit for agitating MY dog, my dog looks like the bad guy then. And then its MY fault. Sigh.


This is why I don't ever take my dogs anyplace where there are people. We don't go to dog parks, petsmart, or anyplace where there are strange people or dogs. My dogs are socialized with people and pets I know I can trust.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm very glad that Berlin did such a good job. 

I've honestly been downright rude with people that are too in my dogs face and harshly told them to BACK OFF and pulled the dog back and stepped in between and backed up keeping myself in between. I figure it's always best to be considered rude then chancing a bite  Unfortunately it's always the dogs fault 99.9% of the time. Both my dogs are extensively socialized but all dogs have their limits


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## oldironguts (Oct 16, 2013)

*Neighbor Gets $10.000.00*

My pup Dieter was harassed by the dog next door since we brought him home. Neighbors would let thier dog out to run free day or night. He would visit at night and bark and bark in front of our pup's room. So... Dieters now 90 pounds and pissed off permanantley at the dog next door. Dogs meet near the property line and Dieter's gonna kick some dog ass, child runs in between fighting dogs and gets a small nip one tooth mark from one of the dogs..not conclusively mine. I get sued for $10.000.00.. Now Iam the bad neigbor. (I Support the Effort To Bring GSD"s of War Home)


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Uhg, how awful. I have zero tolerance for that kind of thing!

I was at the pet store with two of my friends and their dogs today, and these 13 and 15 year old boys kept harassing Hunter, and kept following us around the store trying to give him milkbones and peppers the one kid had in a container he got from a restaurant. We were working on obedience, so it was a great distraction but my friend told the kids to get lost in a snappy way. Then they came back, and it was my turn to tell them to leave my dog alone. They kept grabbing his tail while we were heeling!! UHG! People!!


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

That's nuts! Glad Berlin was able to show restraint, some people are just plain weird.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Good boy Berlin!

And good training Katie!

I'm finding that Lisl is starting to settle down a lot since she was a very young pup. She's not the nerve bag she used to be, but I don't think she would have tolerated what you described this douchebag did to Berlin.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Thanks, I'm glad he was able to refrain from biting. I have zero tolerance for this sort of thing too, and I was (trying!) to be rude, but since the guy didnt speak English, or even pay attention to me, it was kinda hard to evacuate the situation, especially since this large group of crazies was practically surrounding us, and this guy was physically grabbing my dog. I am just glad I finally DID get away from them before Berlin did get really irritated. 

Angel, that is really crazy about those kids with the peppers and pulling Hunter's tail. I cant STAND when punk kids think its funny to mess around with a dog, and don't stop when asked. 

Things I've realized since owning Berlin: people are weird, and some people really have no idea how to approach a dog. Especially a big dog. Also some people dont teach their kids how to properly approach one either. 

I wouldnt ever be able to not bring Berlin with me everywhere. Its great training and socialization for him. Plus, I enjoy it. But I am always, ALWAYS on top of my game when in public. I know the risks. I know people are unpredictable (yesterdays incident was just plain ODD, lol)...so I never ever get too comfortable when we are out. I never want anything to happen.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when you have a dog in public they should be solid and not react to
people doing what you consider strange or doing what you think they
shouldn't be doing. if a dog isn't solid keep them away from public places,
crowds, children other animals.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Good for your boy!
We went to a pumpkin patch yesterday, but it has clear no dogs allowed signs. In fact almost all of the orchards and pumpkin patches have those signs and one website explains they have produce, they don't want kids picking and eating something a dog pee'd on. However apparently leaving peanuts everywhere and offering free samples, they don't have an issue with.
We generally stay away when we take the dogs, there is a beautiful park on the lake 10 minutes away, it faces West, so you can watch the sun set, we go in a team when we take the dogs, dh and I switch off watching DD while the other sits with the dogs, but most people have been pretty normal, we put ourselves where nobody can really approach us, and if they do we see them coming for 20 meters at least.


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## PhoenixGuardian (Jul 10, 2013)

Man! I know for a FACT that Phoenix would have bitten this guy. No question in my mind.
What a good dog! 
Do you think he was actually trying to get bitten? I've heard of people who do things like that purposely to get bitten so that they can sue the owner.
Scary world we live in.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

I read these stories and I just wonder where some of you live? 

anyway if you're out in public your dog better be 100% rock solid, or you better be 100% on your game and your dog's best advocate. If either is present, it's a non issue. How does a complete stranger spend any time roughing up your dog if you're on your game?


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## SageDogs (Oct 6, 2013)

Yeaaaaa I see red if anyone touches my dogs without even establishing eye contact with me, let alone not asking in general. What I just learned to do was create a barrier between my dog and a potential unwelcome pet-ee by using my body or straight up use my eyes as a 'back off' measure, because if A.) My pup reacts in any way I'm responsible for his behavior, or B.) The person getting too close might have a more high percentage of being bitten by me in some way rather than my dog lol. 

In my case...if the leash is on and you're in my personal space...dog included...you're instantly puppy chow lol


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yup. 

I've only seen one bad incident that involved a golden and some people having a picnic literally followed the (on leash) golden and his people, picnic people were trying to lure him to stop with a container of food.

Most people give us our space and don't even try to pet my dogs without asking.

I've never had something like that happen and sure hope it never does! Smitty would be O.K. with it (not Ilda) but it would be ME people like that would end up having to worry about. 



crackem said:


> I read these stories and I just wonder where some of you live?
> 
> anyway if you're out in public your dog better be 100% rock solid, or you better be 100% on your game and your dog's best advocate. If either is present, it's a non issue. How does a complete stranger spend any time roughing up your dog if you're on your game?


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Hi,

Wow, that's not good. Sorry that happened. Also welcome to the site! 

(btw good cause, I support the War Dogs efforts too!  )



oldironguts said:


> My pup Dieter was harassed by the dog next door since we brought him home. Neighbors would let thier dog out to run free day or night. He would visit at night and bark and bark in front of our pup's room. So... Dieters now 90 pounds and pissed off permanantley at the dog next door. Dogs meet near the property line and Dieter's gonna kick some dog ass, child runs in between fighting dogs and gets a small nip one tooth mark from one of the dogs..not conclusively mine. I get sued for $10.000.00.. Now Iam the bad neigbor. (I Support the Effort To Bring GSD"s of War Home)


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## Juno's mom (Sep 28, 2013)

I was wondering if people are always like this... This weekend we took our 15 week old girl apple picking, and while many of the dozens of people who stopped to play with Juno asked me first, i was amazed how many small children and toddlers walked unattended right up to her. At one point my family and I were sitting on a blanket taking a break, and Juno was having some food that I packed for her, and a 2 or 3 year old kid came right up and grabbed a handful of her food right out from under her face! We have been routinely been touching her food and moving so she isn't too sensitive about that, but what if she had been?! OMG I was stunned to see that the parents were smiling and watching right from their blanket. SERIOUSLY? I told them that they really needed to watch their child (I had three of my own with me, not including Juno) because they don't know my dog at all. They seemed insulted. Duh.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I always get shocked with these threads because people seem to forget that the public's expectation is that YOUR DOG is bulletproof. If you bring your dog around people, especially children, you almost have a legal responsibility that your dog doesn't do anything. No one is going to care that some 30 lbs 2 year old grabbed your 90 lbs GSD by the ear and that's what caused it to bite. They're going to see a 90 lbs GSD that just bit a child. And if you think your dog would react that way, and can't prevent that from happening, then you should probably not bring your dog around children.

I don't have a kid, my dog has never been pet by a single child that hasn't asked. And I take my dog to a lot of family type places like the ones that have been described by the various people here. What I quickly realize, is that its families and children first, and I'm just lucky that they ALLOW pet dogs. It's not a right for the dog to be there, its a privilege.

I'm with the one poster...no one is getting near my dog to rile it up "in a split second" and not giving me time to react and prevent it. When I walk through those types of places, he's in heel, and if someone can get to within 1 foot of me without me noticing they're there...I'm not paying enough attention to the fact that I have a dog with me and my surroundings.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

crackem said:


> anyway if you're out in public your dog better be 100% rock solid, or you better be 100% on your game and your dog's best advocate.





martemchik said:


> I always get shocked with these threads because people seem to forget that the public's expectation is that YOUR DOG is bulletproof.


I wish more people felt the same way. Our local Home Depot stopped allowing dogs inside because a customer got bitten. I see dogs out at the farmer's market all the time who are obviously overwhelmed by the crowds. I know people use the excuse that they're socializing their dogs, but this can be done without playing russian roulette with the dogs' ability to handle what's going on. I take my dogs everywhere too, but my eyes are always one them. And I use the same timing to correct a stranger that I use to correct my dog - an immediate 'caught in the act' "HEY!" to stop what I don't like. But I also expect crazy mayhem to occur, since that's what the general public is best at, lol.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm glad your dog did not reactive negatively. "NO" means no in many languages and a hand signal like open palm towards the man might also signify "stop". I know it probably happened all so quickly.

We had something similar happen to us in Carmel, a very dog friendly town. A man from another country, sounded German, and maybe was happy to see a GSD, came up quickly and was over my dog in a matter of a second it seemed. I turned my eye off my dog to take a bite of a sandwich, and then there was this huge man with his body over my dog and our table. I yelled, NO.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I agree the dogs should be rock solid and that is the expectation but it still surprises me how trusting the general public is in that expectation. I expect motorists to see me when I'm out running but I still look both ways before crossing them even though I have the right away because the reality is that a lot don't see me. I wouldn't let my child run up to a strange dog because the dog is expected to behave. I'm not that trusting. I guess common sense is something of the past.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Juno's mom said:


> I was wondering if people are always like this... This weekend we took our 15 week old girl apple picking, and while many of the dozens of people who stopped to play with Juno asked me first, i was amazed how many small children and toddlers walked unattended right up to her. At one point my family and I were sitting on a blanket taking a break, and Juno was having some food that I packed for her, and a 2 or 3 year old kid came right up and grabbed a handful of her food right out from under her face! We have been routinely been touching her food and moving so she isn't too sensitive about that, but what if she had been?! OMG I was stunned to see that the parents were smiling and watching right from their blanket. SERIOUSLY? I told them that they really needed to watch their child (I had three of my own with me, not including Juno) because they don't know my dog at all. They seemed insulted. Duh.


Congratulations to you for having the courage to say something to the parents!!

I took Molly to a fun open swim day for dogs at a public swimming pool.
They did have lots of rules and one of them was that - No humans in the pool.. There were 2 families that let their small children in the pool with the dogs. I know my dog does not always like children, so it was a bit tense for us at times and kind of ruined some fun. Are their kids not human? Are they parents not concerned for the kids safety? This swim was for large dogs only (the small breeds had their own time) and the risk of the kids getting hurt and knocked down by happy, crazy and excited dogs that outweighed them was very high.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Exactly, it's about balance. Don't bring a Cujo to a place with many uncontrollable/uncontrolled situations but also people should be respectful of other people's pets/property.

If you have a really nice car that you've restored from the ground up, take it to a public place doesn't mean people have the right to touch it, sit on it, kick the tires or open the door and sit inside with their kids and their dripping melting icecream cones. 

I don't think that common sense is a thing of the past but rather we dog owners need re-establish what common sense IS around dogs.

Time to stand up to people nicely and educate them if you can and if they are really pushy rude....then it's time to be blunt and loud. 



fuzzybunny said:


> I agree the dogs should be rock solid and that is the expectation but it still surprises me how trusting the general public is in that expectation. I expect motorists to see me when I'm out running but I still look both ways before crossing them even though I have the right away because the reality is that a lot don't see me. I wouldn't let my child run up to a strange dog because the dog is expected to behave. I'm not that trusting. I guess common sense is something of the past.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

martemchik said:


> I always get shocked with these threads because people seem to forget that the public's expectation is that YOUR DOG is bulletproof. If you bring your dog around people, especially children, you almost have a legal responsibility that your dog doesn't do anything. No one is going to care that some 30 lbs 2 year old grabbed your 90 lbs GSD by the ear and that's what caused it to bite. They're going to see a 90 lbs GSD that just bit a child. And if you think your dog would react that way, and can't prevent that from happening, then you should probably not bring your dog around children.
> 
> I don't have a kid, my dog has never been pet by a single child that hasn't asked. And I take my dog to a lot of family type places like the ones that have been described by the various people here. What I quickly realize, is that its families and children first, and I'm just lucky that they ALLOW pet dogs. It's not a right for the dog to be there, its a privilege.
> 
> I'm with the one poster...no one is getting near my dog to rile it up "in a split second" and not giving me time to react and prevent it. When I walk through those types of places, he's in heel, and if someone can get to within 1 foot of me without me noticing they're there...I'm not paying enough attention to the fact that I have a dog with me and my surroundings.


Good post.

Have posted similar on many of these types of threads.
The OP's dog handled this situation well but no way a bloke would even get a chance to do this to my dog without getting an earful.
I am always amazed at how many people post about taking unstable dogs (not this one) out amongst the public......I don't see it happening so much over here.....probably due to our over the top laws.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

sparra said:


> Good post.
> 
> Have posted similar on many of these types of threads.
> The OP's dog handled this situation well but no way a bloke would even get a chance to do this to my dog without getting an earful.
> I am always amazed at how many people post about taking unstable dogs (not this one) out amongst the public......I don't see it happening so much over here.....probably due to our over the top laws.


We don't have that many unstable dogs out here either. I'm sure people walk them and go about their regular days with them, but no one in their right mind takes them to farmer's markets or other public places where the dog can get in trouble. At the end of the day...the dog owner needs to have a lot more personal responsibility and not depend on other people to avoid them just because they're walking with a dog. Everyone needs to realize that no matter what the kid or person does...if your dog does something about it...you'll be the one in trouble. And I think most people do realize this.

Truth is...around here, when I go to places like that with my GSD, I get a safety circle. People respect the dog, they don't really come near. Most do realize that he's probably safe, but will either avoid completely or ask to pet if they really want to.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Geez, alright. A few things: My dog is stable. My dog can be approached, I expect people to approach us. Like I said in my OP, *most* people asked. I do not care, my dog loves people, kids, animals. He is FINE in public. I've brought him numerous busy places, restaurants, downtown Chicago, pet stores...he has always been on his best behavior, and changes a lot of peoples perception about this breed. 

And, I dont understand how now I am wrong for bringing my dog to a place where dogs ARE ALLOWED? There were MANY dogs there. 

I dont think you guys are understanding HOW busy this place was. I literally GLANCED a different direction for one second, and by the time I glanced back at my dog, this guy was all over him. I only have two eyes, cant watch everyone at all times. I did my best. 

As I've stated, I TRIED to get this guy away and off my dog. He didnt pay ANY attention to me, and his group (of like 10 people) practically surrounded us. Oh, and this guy was GRABBING my dogs fur. I dont want to pull my dog away when this guy is grabbing him. As soon as I could leave, I DID, this whole encounter lasted less than 2 minutes, I wasnt standing there for 10 minutes watching this happen. 

Sure, coulda been handled differently, I guess. But the guy wasnt listening to me, didnt speak English, and him and his group apparently thought it was comical. I really think he was trying to get my dog to bite him. It was a bizarre encounter. 

Anyways, I dont know why this thread went in this direction. My dog didnt do anything wrong. He handled this situation as good as any dog could. I cant control some crazy guy who doesnt understand English coming up to my dog and doing this. It happened really quick.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

OP. You are in the right here. Your dog did great and you should be proud. 

We talk a lot on this board about making sure a dog is "bomb proof" before taking them out in public. But how the heck do we do that unless we take them out in public???

This past weekend I took my 9 mo male to a HOWL-O-WINE. A wine festival that's dog friendly. I told all of my friends that it very may well be a quick trip for me. If my boy started being stupid, we were out. But he did amazing. Even being tolerant if wiener dogs dressed as dinosaurs running up to him on a Flexi leash. But we met amazing people, including a former military K9 handler who stopped to talk. 

Sometimes, you just have to go. Had I been truly scared he was going to aggress, I would not have gone. I was more worried about rudeness. He is rude. 

Yes we need to be proactive, especially with dogs in an environment with alcohol.

But you can't know your dog until you get them out. I feel sure that if the OP had any inkling her dog was not going to be tolerant, they would not have been there.

Good for you OP and good for your boy. Sounds like you had a great time and your boy was a great embassador for the breed!!!


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## SageDogs (Oct 6, 2013)

gsdlover91 said:


> Geez, alright. A few things: My dog is stable. My dog can be approached, I expect people to approach us. Like I said in my OP, *most* people asked. I do not care, my dog loves people, kids, animals. He is FINE in public. I've brought him numerous busy places, restaurants, downtown Chicago, pet stores...he has always been on his best behavior, and changes a lot of peoples perception about this breed.
> 
> And, I dont understand how now I am wrong for bringing my dog to a place where dogs ARE ALLOWED? There were MANY dogs there.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't get too involved in some of the negative passive aggressive with ridiculously right winged ideals for a dogs personal space and comfort get to you. 

What people forget is that dogs are just as valuable, and have feelings like people too. They deserve every amount of respect a human demands, because for one...no grown man, woman, senior, adolescent, teen, or child would dare walk up to someone and just get in their face, touch their hair, pull on their ear rings, or just stay in someones personal space. 

It's rude. 

And although they're are a lot of dog friendly places, but when a dog is on a leash and someone approaches, don't be fooled by who's side takes who's. People have common sense and responsibilities of their own, and when you see a dog you don't know-don't touch it. Literally rule number one. 

You did nothing wrong, and if worse came to worse and your dog bit, in my eyes oh well. Pup is on a leash, multiple warnings were given, approach at your own risk. Common sense people. 

We can't have high expectations for our dogs and demand them to act perfect with a full disregard to how they feel in any way, when in the heat of our personal moments we humans can't and don't have 100% control of our feelings when the line is crossed and we are in the same situation. 


Live and learn, make mistakes, and create solutions. Don't give into the peer pressure of hypocritical dog training bullying, no dog is fully done learning, and no trainer knows it all. 

You did a great job handling yourself and seeking consultation and help. And thank everyone who gave a positive, reinforcing support and advice. 

It's amazing how people preach to use positive reinforcement with our dogs, yet so hypocritical when someone seeks some help. 


Lighten up and support our GSD Community the right way. Positively. 


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

SageDogs said:


> What people forget is that dogs are just as valuable, and have feelings like people too. They deserve every amount of respect a human demands, because for one...no grown man, woman, senior, adolescent, teen, or child would dare walk up to someone and just get in their face, touch their hair, pull on their ear rings, or just stay in someones personal space.


Actually...no matter what we think, our dogs aren't as valuable as people. There is something called the law, and your dog is property in the eyes of the law. There is also something called public opinion, and no matter what a child does to a dog...that dog will lose its life if it bites the child. And then the owner will end up losing their house. 

I actually had no problem with the way OP handled the situation, and I have no problem with the dog being at that place. I think its great that the dog didn't do anything, but I don't blame the guy one bit. Did he probably go a bit overboard? Sure. But the truth is, there are tons of people out there that think they can do anything to any dog. Either they've had GSDs, or have one now, and don't realize that not all of them are little angels.

It's more of all the other comments and stories about how children surprised different people, and oh how irresponsible the general public is when it comes to dogs. Can't believe the parents do this or that...want to know what happens to parents a lot? Kid walks away for two seconds, sees a dog...has a dog at home...and comes up to that dog without thinking twice because the one at home wouldn't do anything to it.

But wait...now we're going to hear all about how the parents need to keep a better eye on their kids so that the "GSD community" can relax a little and own the area they're in because their dog has the same rights as people do.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

SageDogs said:


> You did nothing wrong, and if worse came to worse and your dog bit, in my eyes oh well. Pup is on a leash, multiple warnings were given, approach at your own risk. Common sense people.


I'm sure the OP wouldn't have felt the same way when the police came, took the dog, maybe destroyed the dog, or best case scenario...OP wouldn't have ever been able to get homeowners insurance with that dog again.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

gsdlover91 said:


> Anyways, I dont know why this thread went in this direction.


For me, it was the title. I would have rather read, "This is why people get kicked in the shin" although I suppose a broken toe could be better passed off as an accident


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

martemchik said:


> Actually...no matter what we think, our dogs aren't as valuable as people. There is something called the law, and your dog is property in the eyes of the law. There is also something called public opinion, and no matter what a child does to a dog...that dog will lose its life if it bites the child. And then the owner will end up losing their house.
> 
> I actually had no problem with the way OP handled the situation, and I have no problem with the dog being at that place. I think its great that the dog didn't do anything, but I don't blame the guy one bit. Did he probably go a bit overboard? Sure. But the truth is, there are tons of people out there that think they can do anything to any dog. Either they've had GSDs, or have one now, and don't realize that not all of them are little angels.
> 
> ...


No, I agree with you on the children thing. This is why I spent so much time socializing my dog when he was a puppy, and still even now, with little kids. Kids running, screaming, playing, crying. If a little kid ran up to us, I would let them say hi. He needed to know kids are unpredictable. And now he is wonderful around children. That is the one thing I am most proud of, is how shocked people are by his behavior around kids. Kids will climb all over him, pull his tail, play on him, and he isnt phased one bit. Heck who am I kidding, he thinks he is a human child, lol. But I knew better, I knew if I didnt socialize him well, things could happen. I know kids want to pet dogs and will. I made it MY responsibility to make sure my dog was okay with this. So he could be out in public with me and be around kids. And even then, I am still very cautious when strange kids are by him. I watch him like a hawk.


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## SageDogs (Oct 6, 2013)

My statement stands, if they can't give you a positive outlook or advice without criminalizing you, then don't even bother reading some of the hypocritical and ill informed comments. Not every dog of any size gets put down for no reason, without protocol, quarantine, or investigation. 

If a person ignores common sense of space and respect for both owner and companion over cause and effect, then you are 100% not to blame and covered. I've seen it so mamy times working in the shelter, and 98% of our bite cases turned out in home or shelter quarintine. Police who 'shoot' or 'take away' dogs is an overplayed fear based concept of bite protocol. Every county, town, state, and so on have laws that they too obey. 

What others don't realize is that people of all kinds need boundaries, and dogs do too. No one can look me in the eye and say 'the law is the law and dogs are nothing but valueless property' when a leashed dog attacks the 'attacked' is always confronted with the famous, 'now what did YOU do?' despite child, elder, or adult. Every cop asks 'Where was the parent? Why was your child not supervised? Why didn't you listen to the owner when they gave warning? Walked away?' Dogs that make the news are always unleashed, out of a fenced area, dog park, etc. You don't ever really hear a properly leashed dog doing anything wrong but expressing it's feelings and boundaries of comfort. Any owner who cannot pick up on that, refuse the body language and warning signs, and does nothing to prevent it then expect their dog of any breed to be perfectly tolerant and motionless is just in denial of their own problems.

Our animals are an exact reflection of us and our energy, and the value of your dog needs to be respected in every way, just as yourself. If people are too headstrong and stubborn to realize it, then pay no mind. 

A dog is a dog, and behaves like a dog. Lives like a dog. Feels like a dog. It is up to us to raise the dog right, and protect them as they would protect us with 100% loyalty. You will make mistakes, while learning from them, and pay mind to some people who are just too full of themselves to value their pup above what society labels.




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## SageDogs (Oct 6, 2013)

PhoenixGuardian said:


> Man! I know for a FACT that Phoenix would have bitten this guy. No question in my mind.
> What a good dog!
> Do you think he was actually trying to get bitten? I've heard of people who do things like that purposely to get bitten so that they can sue the owner.
> Scary world we live in.


I know right! Some people are just as shady as the Bermuda Triangle, and now that you say it I remember this one fellow who kept coming in complaining about dog bites just to find out he was instigating dogs to get under the table apology cash from the sorrowful owner. He got caught by a parking lot cam, could you believe it??? I just have no respect for anyone who would willingly attack a dog in any way and blame the animal for defending itself the only way it naturally knows how. 


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I have had someone shove their little dachshund in my pit mixes' face, had a kid that was barely old enough to walk sneak up behind us and yank on Eko's tail, people have pulled on Eko's ears and face after I gave permission to pet (but not pull on him), people have run up on my pit mix who is scared of people and pet her all over while she cowers, people letting their dogs run up to Eko even when I say no, don't, I am not surprised at what people do anymore. We are in the middle of training to work on Eko's dog aggression and Xena's fear of people, Eko wears a muzzle in public now since I don't trust him 100% yet and people still do all the same things as before. Xena will not bite no matter how scared she gets but she could be shaking, drooling, and wetting herself in a ball at my feet and people will still pet her as they would any other dog.

I agree that dogs shouldn't be out in public unless they are bulletproof but sometimes that is not always possible. People should use common sense but that's not always going to happen either. Since I can't do anything about them all I can do is work with my dogs, which in this case means I need to go out in public. So either way there are risks.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Sarah...

It's not that I think that dangerous dogs shouldn't be out in public, its that most people shouldn't and won't take their fearful or aggressive dog to an extremely busy place. You also shouldn't take your dog to a place where people are shoulder to shoulder if you don't know how it will react no matter what or who might come up to that dog. It's not the general public's job to socialize your dog...and on top of that...a busy fair or a place like OP was that is not the right place to be socializing your dog anyways.

Here's the point. I take my dog to a lot of places like this, but I'm never surprised at how people react when they're around my dog. If he had any issues with people running up to him or touching him without my permission...I wouldn't take him to places where that can happen. If he did have issues...I wouldn't be taking him there and then yelling at people or trying to educate people about how they shouldn't be touching my dog and how their kids aren't acting correctly. I'm always of the thought that I need to control what I can control and not expect to teach others how to act.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Where I live, we have legislation to protect the public from dangerous dogs. They can/will be seized and PTS. I'm assuming it would cost me $20,000 in legal fees to fight this, but that's just my guess. I wonder how many other dogs owners in my area even know about this, when I see their stressed dogs. If someone actually told me to get away from their dog because it might bite, they'd be getting quite an earful from me. I'm not saying the dog doesn't deserve personal space. I'm saying that whether it does or not is irrelevant: the dog will be judged on its behavior.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yet in European countries you can take your dog so many more places....because people are more educated, dog owners *and* the general public.

In the U.S. what has happened and will continue to happen is there will be more and more restrictions placed on dogs because in the U.S. we buy into 'it's always the dogs fault no matter what' idea.

Time to push back else doing more of the same will result in more of the same, less and less freedom to take our dogs to public places.

It's about balance and most of us get you can't take a fear aggressive biter to a public gathering, the other side of the equation is even my super safe loveable goober dog Smitty, if jumped from behind and startled may nip. No dog is perfect and every dog has it's breaking point so where does this lead then? To banning dogs from public events/gatherings entirely, if you cannot 150% guarantee your dog won't ever bite/nip anyone ever.







martemchik said:


> Sarah...
> 
> It's not that I think that dangerous dogs shouldn't be out in public, its that most people shouldn't and won't take their fearful or aggressive dog to an extremely busy place. You also shouldn't take your dog to a place where people are shoulder to shoulder if you don't know how it will react no matter what or who might come up to that dog. It's not the general public's job to socialize your dog...and on top of that...a busy fair or a place like OP was that is not the right place to be socializing your dog anyways.
> 
> Here's the point. I take my dog to a lot of places like this, but I'm never surprised at how people react when they're around my dog. If he had any issues with people running up to him or touching him without my permission...I wouldn't take him to places where that can happen. If he did have issues...I wouldn't be taking him there and then yelling at people or trying to educate people about how they shouldn't be touching my dog and how their kids aren't acting correctly.* I'm always of the thought that I need to control what I can control and not expect to teach others how to act*.


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## Mr. D (Oct 4, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Sarah...
> 
> It's not that I think that dangerous dogs shouldn't be out in public, its that most people shouldn't and won't take their fearful or aggressive dog to an extremely busy place. You also shouldn't take your dog to a place where people are shoulder to shoulder if you don't know how it will react no matter what or who might come up to that dog. It's not the general public's job to socialize your dog...and on top of that...a busy fair or a place like OP was that is not the right place to be socializing your dog anyways.
> 
> Here's the point. I take my dog to a lot of places like this, but I'm never surprised at how people react when they're around my dog. If he had any issues with people running up to him or touching him without my permission...I wouldn't take him to places where that can happen. If he did have issues...I wouldn't be taking him there and then yelling at people or trying to educate people about how they shouldn't be touching my dog and how their kids aren't acting correctly. I'm always of the thought that I need to control what I can control and not expect to teach others how to act.


If people expect my children to behave in public, why shouldn't I expect others to behave just as well as my kids? 

I have a leash attachment that says "No Petting". I don't want people approaching and doing all the things mentioned in this thread. Besides, Franklin is still a little chompy and prefer not to have little fingers missing.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> In the U.S. what has happened and will continue to happen is there will be more and more restrictions placed on dogs because in the U.S. we buy into 'it's always the dogs fault no matter what' idea.


IMO, it's more of a general 'it's always someone else's fault no matter what' mentality. We live in a litigious society, that's a fact. I pay $500 a year for boater's insurance - not because I need the boat insured, but because I want the liability coverage. It's sickening to think that there are people out there just waiting to sue for the monetary gain, but it does happen. It isn't just dog bites, it's slipping on steps - you name it.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

SageDogs said:


> I wouldn't get too involved in some of the *negative passive aggressive with ridiculously right winged ideals* for a dogs personal space and comfort get to you.
> ...


what the he!! does that mean?!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

alexg said:


> what the he!! does that mean?!


It means no matter what anyone posts, we should all just stand up and scream from the mountain tops about how great they are and how right their decision is (as long as it involves a GSD).

It happens all the time on this forum...a GSD attacks something, people try to get all the information possible to try and make it that the GSD is not at fault...like it was coerced, it had a good reason, it was just having a bad day, ect. If a different breed attacks a GSD...its always the other dogs fault no matter what the situation is.

GSD runs onto someone elses property and gets in a fight. Well the other dog should know that your perfectly trained, wonderful GSD was just saying hello and didn't want any trouble. Another dog runs onto a GSD's lawn and they get into a fight...oh well your dog was just doing what its supposed to do and protecting its property.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

I am so confused. 


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Is it really a problem though? Or are we so spooked by one case that gets blown up in the media?

Think of it this way, the more we worry about liability the more money insurance companies make.

Disclaimer- I'm just positing this as food for thought. You would think this would be a much bigger problem in much more "PC" countries like Germany or France but it's not....sometimes things aren't what they seem.




Blanketback said:


> IMO, it's more of a general 'it's always someone else's fault no matter what' mentality. We live in a litigious society, that's a fact. I pay $500 a year for boater's insurance - not because I need the boat insured, but because I want the liability coverage. It's sickening to think that there are people out there just waiting to sue for the monetary gain, but it does happen. It isn't just dog bites, it's slipping on steps - you name it.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

That's not true about this forum.

In the case where it was two Bernese Mountain Dogs shot by a farmer the opinions varied. Some said the farmer should not have shot them and some said he was within his rights.

Same with GSD cases. One thing this forum is not, is 'lock step' that's for sure. 




martemchik said:


> It means no matter what anyone posts, we should all just stand up and scream from the mountain tops about how great they are and how right their decision is (as long as it involves a GSD).
> 
> It happens all the time on this forum...a GSD attacks something, people try to get all the information possible to try and make it that the GSD is not at fault...like it was coerced, it had a good reason, it was just having a bad day, ect. If a different breed attacks a GSD...its always the other dogs fault no matter what the situation is.
> 
> GSD runs onto someone elses property and gets in a fight. Well the other dog should know that your perfectly trained, wonderful GSD was just saying hello and didn't want any trouble. Another dog runs onto a GSD's lawn and they get into a fight...oh well your dog was just doing what its supposed to do and protecting its property.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Think of it this way, the more we worry about liability the more money insurance companies make.


True, but it makes me feel safer to know that I have coverage when someone tells me that they like to drink a 6-pack and swim across the river. If (or when) I accidently run them over and they lose a leg, they'll get the medical and long-term care they'll need. I can't help thinking this way, lol. Maybe things do get blown out of proportion, but even my neighbor is in the middle of something because they were fooling around with an ATV, while drinking, and a girl ended up with brain damage when she fell off. Who's fault was it? Her father doesn't think she bears any responsibility and is suing the ATV owner. But then again, permanent brain damage has ruined her future, hasn't it?


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Eh, well, that's a call you make personally, comfort level.

But if you look at how many hours are spent boating vs how many people get their legs cut off at what point does a .000001% chance justify paying an extra $500 a month to insure a boat? Is there any real data, empirical evidence to support this?

You know it is possible to have ATVs and Cars and boats with sensors, radar, devices you blow into to detect alcohol on your breath and advanced air bags and safety devices galore (we have the tech) to almost accident/injury proof. It would, however, drive the cost of these vehicles through the roof.

So the question is, how much does society have to pay to protect itself from people who make very poor decisions and at what point does idiot proofing society (from a small overall number of accidents) restrict all of our freedoms? 





Blanketback said:


> True, but it *makes me feel safer* to know that I have coverage when someone tells me that they like to drink a 6-pack and swim across the river. If (or when) I accidently run them over and they lose a leg, they'll get the medical and long-term care they'll need. I can't help thinking this way, lol. Maybe things do get blown out of proportion, but even my neighbor is in the middle of something because they were fooling around with an ATV, while drinking, and a girl ended up with brain damage when she fell off. Who's fault was it? Her father doesn't think she bears any responsibility and is suing the ATV owner. But then again, permanent brain damage has ruined her future, hasn't it?


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

BTW- there are also cases where things are ruled, quite simply, an accident. There have been a couple of pedestrian vs car related incidents in our area where a person stepped into traffic, was hit and killed. The driver was not charged because the pedestrian stepped in front of the moving vehicle that was going the speed limit in such a way the driver simply did not have the time/physics on his/her side to stop in time. So not every case of someone being careless (in this case pedestrian did not check traffic before jaywalking) is held against the driver/owner/operator. In other words sometimes accidents happened and are ruled as such by the authorities.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

• In 2012, the Coast Guard counted 4515 accidents that involved 651 deaths, 
3000 injuries and approximately $38 million dollars of damage to property as a 
result of recreational boating accidents 

Accident Statistics

Not too many reported accidents, when you consider how many millions of boats are out there. And lots of people in my area think I'm throwing my money away, since it isn't mandatory. But I think it's worth the $10/week for the peace of mind. When I was younger I had the 'it can't happen to me' attitude and wouldn't have bothered with it. Nowadays, I'm more of a 'if it can happen to them, it can happen to me' type of person, lol. I even have a nice leather open-faced muzzle that I can put on my dog if I want people to leave him alone - since nothing says, "keep your hands to yourself" quite as well as a muzzle does.


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## Bequavious (Mar 9, 2013)

I think dog owners and the general public share responsibility, because that's the best way to keep everyone safe. Should people socialize and "bomb-proof" their dogs before taking them around people without a muzzle? Yes, but parents should also teach their children not to pet strange dogs without asking. As a dog owner, I made sure my dogs love people and can tolerate rough treatment just like the OP's dog did. When I have kids though, I'm certainly not going to trust their safety to every dog that is out in public! I think it's perfectly acceptable (and encouraged) to politely educate people about appropriate ways to interact with dogs, and that way you're making it a little less likely that a stupid person will run into a poorly socialized dog one day and get a trip to the hospital.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

i think a normal reaction of a stable dog if someone rubbed their hands all over its face would be to get annoyed and tried to get away/dodge the persons hand. if they cant then i could see my dog nipping or mouthing the person. if the first reaction of the dog that is uncomfortable is to bite then it shouldnt be at a public event, plain and simple! if someone is rubbing your dogs face and its trying to squirm away and you arent able to stop the person then YOU shouldnt bring your dog to a public event. maybe the op doesnt know how to be rude and was whispering oh please stop but if someone put their hands on my dogs without permission i'd be in their face in a heartbeat. they wouldnt have time to yank and pull on my dogs fur. i mean your dog is right next to you, how long does it take? at the end of the day it is 110% on the owner to either stop the idiots or dont bring an unproven dog to super crowded places.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

My Dad was a Vice Commander in the Coast Guard Auxiliary for many years.  We were all about safe boating both in the Great Lakes and later in the Gulf of Mexico. He did search and rescues, taught navigation, towed disabled boats back to safety and lots of safety inspections too. What I've noticed is inland water (boaters) are well, nuts. Then you add in all the 'personal water craft' and you cannot get me onto some of the lakes around here, too many looneys out on the water. Oh stories I could tell....

Still you have to look at it as per hour of activity when gauging risk whether it's boating, motorcycle riding, horse back riding. 

Which (to not get too far off track  ) brings me back around to my concern. Is there *really* a problem with a LOT of dogs biting at these events? If so how many could be attributed to idiots like the OP had to deal with and should we dog owners then be held responsible for what maybe untrue or inaccurate perceptions?

This is just MHO, but after years of being on the side of worrying about liability issues, I learned that a lot of the concerns aren't really founded on empirical evidence or data. One particular case comes to mind that is of massive urban legends fame now (but way too off topic) that I used to believe. Then I saw an interview with the actual litigant that was involved and what really happened, I looked it up and what really was awarded was no where near the legendary amounts/circumstances circulating for years now.

It was after learning that and looking into some other areas of liability that I started to question a perspective I too had held. 

*(ETA Yeah I was thinking the same thing, muzzles may be the answer though on some levels it seems a unfortunate solution too....)






Blanketback said:


> • In 2012, the Coast Guard counted 4515 accidents that involved 651 deaths,
> 3000 injuries and approximately $38 million dollars of damage to property as a
> result of recreational boating accidents
> 
> ...


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

:thumbup:

I would only add that if someone gets into your dog's face and gets really aggressive handling it and politeness isn't working to back that person off, being rude and loud may be appropriate in those cases.






Bequavious said:


> I think dog owners and the general public share responsibility, because that's the best way to keep everyone safe. Should people socialize and "bomb-proof" their dogs before taking them around people without a muzzle? Yes, but parents should also teach their children not to pet strange dogs without asking. As a dog owner, I made sure my dogs love people and can tolerate rough treatment just like the OP's dog did. When I have kids though, I'm certainly not going to trust their safety to every dog that is out in public! I think it's perfectly acceptable (and encouraged) to politely educate people about appropriate ways to interact with dogs, and that way you're making it a little less likely that a stupid person will run into a poorly socialized dog one day and get a trip to the hospital.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

gsdlover91 said:


> I am so confused.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Me too, the only thing I understand that according to *SageDogs* it is all Bush's fault.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Blanketback;4402497I even have a nice leather open-faced muzzle that I can put on my dog if I want people to leave him alone - since nothing says said:


> Although Hondo has never even snarled at a stranger, I can tell by his body language he doesn't care to be handled by a stranger. Therefore, I don't take him to places where there will be a heavy crowd. And when I do take him out in public, he wears his halti. Something about having a device on your dog's face makes people think twice about getting all touchy feely.
> 
> But...I will say, I'm a little confused about allowing someone to harrass my dog - if I was in a coma for a moment and someone got close enough to grab my dog's face - I'd be all over them like flys on poop. I'd stop that the instant it started. Not just because I'd be afraid my dog was going to bite them - but my dog expects me to keep him from being harrassed. That's my job when I take him out.
> 
> ...


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Gwenhwyfair is making a great point, but I think its the same point that some of us are making. The fact is, there are very few incidents when it comes to dogs. People are generally good about either bringing only good dogs to places like that and also leaving the ones that shouldn't be there at home. That's exactly why the public think that when a dog is out in public, its safe. And although a majority of people will ask and won't abuse a dog like the guy in OP's story did, there will be those that do. And that's when the liability comes up...can your dog handle that situation?

Here's the thing...the OP's story is a great story of how the dog handled the situation. The rest of the comments are just discussing more of the other things around the situation and even things that other members have posted. I don't think OP has to feel bad about anything that happened, and it actually brought up a pretty cool discussion about how our dogs should behave in public, and how the public should behave around our dogs. I do believe we need to help people learn how to behave around dogs, but I just don't get a very good response from most people when I try to teach them anything "dog." Either they know what they're doing, or they just don't care. And the truth is...the last thing you really want to say in the middle of a crowd is that if someone pets your dog a little too hard he might bite them.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

boomer11 said:


> i think a normal reaction of a stable dog if someone rubbed their hands all over its face would be to get annoyed and tried to get away/dodge the persons hand. if they cant then i could see my dog nipping or mouthing the person. if the first reaction of the dog that is uncomfortable is to bite then it shouldnt be at a public event, plain and simple! if someone is rubbing your dogs face and its trying to squirm away and you arent able to stop the person then YOU shouldnt bring your dog to a public event. maybe the op doesnt know how to be rude and was whispering oh please stop but if someone put their hands on my dogs without permission i'd be in their face in a heartbeat. they wouldnt have time to yank and pull on my dogs fur. i mean your dog is right next to you, how long does it take? at the end of the day it is 110% on the owner to either stop the idiots or dont bring an unproven dog to super crowded places.


Lol, I was not whispering. Can you read? For the third time. The guy *DIDNT SPEAK ENGLISH* and would *NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ME. * I told him to stop as soon as I realized I didnt know this person, and then as soon as he didnt stop, I got away. This happened all very quickly. 

Forgive me, for not handling the situation correctly and bringing my dog out in public, when CLEARLY, I should not be doing that. Next time, i'll just punch the guy or kick him in the groin, and be arrested. That'll get my point across! 

*And AGAIN. MY DOG IS STABLE. * 

I posted this in the STORIES section, because I wanted to share my weird encounter. Not get ridiculed how I didnt handle the situation right or shouldnt bring my dog out. I didnt ask for any advice. 

EDIT: I just saw martemchik's comment. I appreciate the discussion, I have zero problem with that. What I dont appreciate, is the few comments, like the one I quoted above. I was rude to the guy, but I guess people dont take a young woman seriously. I have no idea. This ...encounter was a learning experience, and I guess now I have to be more watchful for weirdos who wanna provoke my dog.


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## Mr. D (Oct 4, 2013)

gsdlover91 said:


> Lol, I was not whispering. Can you read? For the third time. The guy *DIDNT SPEAK ENGLISH* and would *NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ME. * I told him to stop as soon as I realized I didnt know this person, and then as soon as he didnt stop, I got away. This happened all very quickly. *I WAS NOT WATCHING THIS GUY DO THIS TO MY DOG FOR 10 MINUTES.*
> 
> Forgive me, for not handling the situation correctly and bringing my dog out in public, when CLEARLY, I should not be doing that. Next time, i'll just punch the guy or kick him in the groin, and be arrested. That'll get my point across!
> 
> ...


The answer would be, no. They can't. The forum experts have to have their say! 
For what it's worth OP, if you feel you did your best then thats all that matters. No one was hurt and that's always a good thing.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

GSDLover91 - your dog is awesome. It behaved perfectly given the situation. You did the best you could, also given the situation.

The only thing you need to 'learn' from that situation is to be more forceful if something like that happened again. I find that even people who do not speak English understand when you yell "NO!" right in their face.  Don't be afraid to be nasty to them - you'll never see them again. 

For the KIA (Know-It-Alls) on the forum - I have personally met Berlin. He is a wonderfully SOUND, STABLE young dog and I would have no qualms about the owner taking him anywhere.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

And as for stupid people - I have the best 'Stupid Person' story!!

Years ago I had a dog named Riggs. He was the greatest German Shepherd ever (slightly biased, I know). My husband and I were inside a video store, looking for a movie while Riggs waited in the car with the windows wide open. He would jump in the front seat and sit there, waiting for us to come back.

I just happened to glance out the window when I saw a man walking by the car. He saw Riggs and walked over, leaned in through the window and gave Riggs a BIG HUG!!!



I knew Riggs wouldn't do anything but seriously??? What kind of STUPID person leans into a strangers car to hug their dog?? And I mean full on, wrapped his arms around Riggs whole body and squeezed type hug!!

They are out there - SERIOUSLY stupid people. Unless you leave your dog home 100% of the time and never take them anywhere you will, at least once, run into them.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

gsdlover91 said:


> Forgive me, for not handling the situation correctly and bringing my dog out in public, when CLEARLY, I should not be doing that. Next time, i'll just punch the guy or kick him in the groin, and be arrested. That'll get my point across!
> 
> *And AGAIN. MY DOG IS STABLE. *
> 
> ...


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## SageDogs (Oct 6, 2013)

alexg said:


> Me too, the only thing I understand that according to *SageDogs* it is all Bush's fault.


Ha. Well I guess it is if you say so  


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## SageDogs (Oct 6, 2013)

martemchik said:


> It means no matter what anyone posts, we should all just stand up and scream from the mountain tops about how great they are and how right their decision is (as long as it involves a GSD).
> 
> It happens all the time on this forum...a GSD attacks something, people try to get all the information possible to try and make it that the GSD is not at fault...like it was coerced, it had a good reason, it was just having a bad day, ect. If a different breed attacks a GSD...its always the other dogs fault no matter what the situation is.
> 
> GSD runs onto someone elses property and gets in a fight. Well the other dog should know that your perfectly trained, wonderful GSD was just saying hello and didn't want any trouble. Another dog runs onto a GSD's lawn and they get into a fight...oh well your dog was just doing what its supposed to do and protecting its property.


Well of course it's open to personal interpretation  


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## meek (Feb 14, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> when you have a dog in public they should be solid and not react to
> people doing what you consider strange or doing what you think they
> shouldn't be doing. if a dog isn't solid keep them away from public places,
> crowds, children other animals.


I totally agree with you! my dogs are in training and i don't allow anyone to pet my dogs at this time.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Berlin really must have grown up since the last time I saw him. :crazy:


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

your dog didn't react and that's good. that's how i think a dog
should react. you're not wrong for taking your dog into a crowd.
he sounds well trained and highly socialized so he can be in a crowd.
don't expect people to ask you can they pet your dog, assume a child
is going to appear out of no where and grab your dog's ears, assume
someone is going to touch your dog's mouth, assume someone is going
to grab your dog's tail, assume someone is going to trip or step over
your dog, etc. people are going to tough our dogs, people are going to talk baby talk to them, people are going to ask them for their paw or ask them to sit without asking can they do it. as long as the dog is prepared for it it's no big deal. when your dog doesn't react because of the unexpected that's a compliment to your training and socializing.



gsdlover91 said:


> >>>>> Geez, alright. A few things: My dog is stable. My dog can be approached, I expect people to approach us. Like I said in my OP, *most* people asked. I do not care, my dog loves people, kids, animals. He is FINE in public. I've brought him numerous busy places, restaurants, downtown Chicago, pet stores...he has always been on his best behavior, and changes a lot of peoples perception about this breed. <<<<<
> 
> >>>>> And, I dont understand how now I am wrong for bringing my dog to a place where dogs ARE ALLOWED? There were MANY dogs there. <<<<<
> 
> ...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

people petting your dog, walking into your dog, running pass your dog, dogs being close to your dog, being in stores, approaching your dog
from different angles, being close to different animals, going to the Vet, etc. should be apart of your dog's training. train and socialize and expose
them to all sorts of things.

what does your dog learn from not being petted?



doggiedad said:


> when you have a dog in public they should be solid and not react to people doing what you consider strange or doing what you think they shouldn't be doing. if a dog isn't solid keep them away from public places, crowds, children other animals.





meek said:


> I totally agree with you! my dogs are in training and
> 
> >>>>> i don't allow anyone to pet my dogs at this time.<<<<<
> 
> [/QUOTE]


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

FWIW I agree, women, especially younger women are treated differently and I thought same when I read boomer's post too.

But the only comments that were a little critical were about not getting the guy away from your dog faster. So I don't think any is really meaning to ridicule you?

IMO you didn't do anything wrong.......I may have kicked up the rudeness a notch or two and really raised my voice but I wasn't there. I did do that one time with a guy who had an off leash puppy that he let charge right up to Ilda's face. Ilda was good but that was so dangerous to do that. Boy that time I set him back on his heels I was just so furious for him putting that puppy in danger like that.

It's unfortunate for us, because my hubby who is 6'4" with ice blue eyes can back men down with just a hard stare. Me I've got sound like a really angry person to get someone to back off when they are being inappropriate.





gsdlover91 said:


> Lol, I was not whispering. Can you read? For the third time. The guy *DIDNT SPEAK ENGLISH* and would *NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ME. *I told him to stop as soon as I realized I didnt know this person, and then as soon as he didnt stop, I got away. This happened all very quickly.
> 
> Forgive me, for not handling the situation correctly and bringing my dog out in public, when CLEARLY, I should not be doing that. Next time, i'll just punch the guy or kick him in the groin, and be arrested. That'll get my point across!
> 
> ...


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

gsdlover91 said:


> This guy (he was foreign so he didn't speak English) comes up to Berlin *LIKE he knows him and starts riling him up, playing rough with him*. This all happened so fast I was confused because I wasn't sure if I knew this person or not? (I couldnt see his face at first) Well now Berlin thought it was *play time and was jumping up at the guy* - and the guy kept going!
> 
> *He is then pulling my dogs skin, and rubbing my dogs face so hard* I *thought his skin was gonna rip off* - to*Berlin was visibly irritated and trying* *ignore the guy so I tried to go*. /QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

That's a good point Gwen brings up. Women and men are treated differently sometimes, women aren't taken as seriously and I don't think Katie mentioned that the man was middle eastern... nothing wrong with that but might be why he wasn't acknowledging her. Could she have been more forceful about it? Sure but none of us were there to actually witness it and Berlin handled it as well as any dog should.


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## Muneraven (Sep 4, 2012)

Here in the Twin Cities I'm not afraid to take any of my dogs to Petsmart because people are pretty good there. Not perfect -- tiny dogs on 20 foot leashes held by a toddler? -- but mostly pretty good. People don't throw themselves at my dogs, and my dogs like people as long as I seem okay with them. The worst any of them have done is "BOOF" at a dog yapping at them, which seems reasonable to me, lol. But I don't take my dogs to events with big crowds. I worry that some macho idiot with a dog will see shepherds and decide to show off his mean pitbull and lose control of it. It ain't the pittie, it's the owner, you know?

On a barely related note: We have a pizza delivery guy who watches for our phone number so he can bring our pizzas out because he adores shepherds and wants to see our's. He was very respectful the first time he came and obviously knew dogs so I let the boys come to the door to meet him. Now, if they smell pizza at the door, they peer out to see if its him. "IT'S THE NICE GOOD SMELLS MAN!!!!!!" They think he's awesome.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Do you think he was actually trying to get bitten? I've heard of people who do things like that purposely to get bitten so that they can sue the owner.
Scary world we live in.[/QUOTE said:


> Agreed.... too many litigious losers out there.....we are targets in many ways owning GSD's......
> 
> SuperG


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

OP, if you felt ridiculed by my post then I apologize for that, since that wasn't my intention. But I think we're on the same page, as far as how we view our dogs - they're our babies. So I have a very hard time trying to picture someone assaulting my dog without my reflexes kicking in. That is, immediate consequences. I know women are treated differently - but that's neither here nor there. If someone groped you, would you ponder how to handle it? Maybe we just have different views on what we're willing to tolerate. I'm very intolerant when it comes to physical assault, whether it's me or my dog. The strangers who have groped me have had the wind knocked out of them, or had their finger almost broken. Sorry, but that's the risk you take when you put your hands where they aren't welcome. And as crackem said, you have to be your dog's advocate - you have to act on behalf of your dog. Luckily Berlin has been socialized and has the temperament to take that abuse, but many wouldn't. IMO, your story seems to justify a dog biting someone in retaliation to how a stranger treats it, and I don't think that's right. Especially when the dog in question is a GSD, then I have a problem with that attitude. Can you see this from my perspective?


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I agree Berlin did really well! 

...and another point that has me pondering-

I have to be honest, Smitty probably would have been just fine with it, but Ilda would not.

She's fine in crowds, she's fine with people running by us jogging, kids in play grounds screaming and jumping, petsmart visits, but if a stranger bends over and grabs her right in her face.....all bets are off. 

I socialized the heck out of her too (more so then Smitty) and train with groups and privately pretty much weekly and her OB is pretty solid compared to most other average dogs. She's breed standard in that she is aloof with strangers, a cuddle bug with 'her pack' I and Hubby can smush all over her and she loves it and super loyal but I didn't socialize her to tolerate different strangers coming up to her and grabbing her face? 

None of my trainers (who are GSD knowledgeable SchH and protection trainers) ever taught us that our dogs should tolerate this level of interaction with strangers out of the blue like that. We did do lots of socialization exercises in class too.

In fact my trainer did an exercise with me once. He asked me to sit on a bench. Then without warning he walked up to me and got right in my face. Now I know him and trust him but the visceral reaction is to be startled and uncomfortable. Imagine if a stranger does that to you? 





Carriesue said:


> That's a good point Gwen brings up. Women and men are treated differently sometimes, women aren't taken as seriously and I don't think Katie mentioned that the man was middle eastern... nothing wrong with that but might be why he wasn't acknowledging her. Could she have been more forceful about it? Sure but none of us were there to actually witness it and *Berlin handled it as well as any dog should*.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

LOL! I can relate. Ilda loves French fries. 

I only give her a couple as a treat when going through the drive thru but she loves the people at the windows who hand us such delicious things into the car! 

One place the employees recognize us - hands me two or three just for her. 




Muneraven said:


> Here in the Twin Cities I'm not afraid to take any of my dogs to Petsmart because people are pretty good there. Not perfect -- tiny dogs on 20 foot leashes held by a toddler? -- but mostly pretty good. People don't throw themselves at my dogs, and my dogs like people as long as I seem okay with them. The worst any of them have done is "BOOF" at a dog yapping at them, which seems reasonable to me, lol. But I don't take my dogs to events with big crowds. I worry that some macho idiot with a dog will see shepherds and decide to show off his mean pitbull and lose control of it. It ain't the pittie, it's the owner, you know?
> 
> On a barely related note: We have a pizza delivery guy who watches for our phone number so he can bring our pizzas out because he adores shepherds and wants to see our's. He was very respectful the first time he came and obviously knew dogs so I let the boys come to the door to meet him. *Now, if they smell pizza at the door, they peer out to see if its him. "IT'S THE NICE GOOD SMELLS MAN!!!!!!" They think he's awesome*.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I also had a very big issue with the title of this thread. I don't think our dogs should bite anyone that isn't a threat. This guy wasn't a threat, he was being friendly. Sure, he was way over the top about it, but at the end of the day he doesn't deserve to get bit for his actions.

I guess I'm just not alright with people saying...well it would be okay if my dog bit this person because they did something stupid. To me...its not okay. It's okay if you walked into my house, or my yard, with an intent to do something illegal, and my dog bit you. But if my dog is out on the town, its not okay for him to bite anything. Someone brought up the fact that in Europe people are much more understanding and dogs are allowed more places. Well, my dog is already not allowed that many places in the US, the last thing I need is for a dog to bite someone in another place and then I can't go there with my dog...or the news gets out and things just like that stop allowing dogs.

On a side note...all of you in northern Illinois and southeastern Wisconsin where do you guys meet up and hang out? I'd love to meet up with some of you and let our dogs play. Where do you guys train? What do you guys train in? PM me if its more comfortable.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lilie said:


> gsdlover91 said:
> 
> 
> > This guy (he was foreign so he didn't speak English) comes up to Berlin *LIKE he knows him and starts riling him up, playing rough with him*. This all happened so fast I was confused because I wasn't sure if I knew this person or not? (I couldnt see his face at first) Well now Berlin thought it was *play time and was jumping up at the guy* - and the guy kept going!
> ...


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Berlin did a good job. You should be proud and your dog is definitely a good representative of this breed! He's an excellent dog!

Some people are seriously ridiculous. I socialize my dogs from the beginning and expect them to behave and tolerate what's going on around them. If I say it's ok.... it's ok. However, I'm not locking myself in my house because some people can't control their ignorance. They are still dogs, they still have teeth.... all dogs can bite. Period. In my opinion, there's no such thing as a bomb proof animal. There's good stable dogs, and well trained dogs, and very tolerant dogs..... but, even the "best" and most so called "bomb proof dog" can bite, and if the right situation occurs.... they will. Everyone shares responsibility when out in public. If dogs are allowed, then the public there should fully understand how to respect their space.... and the dog owner should understand how to respect the public around them. Simple as that. There would be a LOT less bite incidents if people watched their kids, and taught them how to respect animals. I remember back in the days when parents would say "Well.. what did you do to the animal for it to bite you?!". I remember getting kicked by a pony as a small child, I walked behind it too fast and it didn't know I was there.... between my sobbing, my mother calmly asked "What did you do to it and how can you prevent this next time?"... These days... people avoid blame, and try to stick in on someone else.



LaRen616 said:


> Lilie said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand either? Berlin was jumping at the guy and thought it was playtime but then he got irratated with him and tried to ignore him? That doesn't make sense?
> ...


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