# Intro to eCollar - resources



## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

I know some forum members use e collars to train and track, particularly for recall and off-leash obedience. I am interested in learning, and want to ask for input. 

What is a good brand of e collar and why? 
Is there an online course I can take? 
How do I get started? What should I look out for? What are some common mistakes to avoid?

I look forward to reading your responses.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Why do you feel that you need it?


----------



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I would work with a trainer. That’s something I wouldn’t want to screw up.


----------



## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

WNGD said:


> Why do you feel that you need it?


Hm that is an interesting question. 
I feel that I would have greater control over my dog and could call her to me in an emergency. For example, a few days ago she chased a neighbour's ducktoller off our yard. I thought I had a dog fight on my hands, but her lunge line got stuck in my some rocks, which stopped Juno from chasing further. In the meantime, a third neighbour lead the ducktoller off. 

Also, the lunge line (I am just using nylon fishing rope) gets tangled in my feet and I have gotten rope burn a few times.

But I don't really _need_ an e collar. Juno is pretty obedient 95% of the time.


----------



## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

Unfortunately, the nearest dog training is an hour away and it is basic obedience, which I already have for both Juno and Titus.


----------



## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

I use an E-collar for off-leash work.

I use a mini educator. I like the fact that it has many different levels so you can tune in to just the right level for your dog. Reviews were good.

I have not found many good online resources. I think the subject is so controversial that people who use the tool don't bother dealing with the push back from posting publically. It is easy to abuse. That being said, I found larry Krohn's videos to be the most helpful in getting started.

I think of the E-collar as an extension of my leash. I rarely use my leash to control my dog, instead I use the leash to give him guidance. After many, many laps around the neighborhood, Ole has learned to follow my lead. Occasionally, rarely now, Ole has learned that if he pulls too hard. I just stop and stand still as a statue until he comes back and sits at my side. Once he sits, we immediately go and check out what he wanted to go see.

I think of the E-collar as a gentle nudge with a leash. My challenge was that it didn't take pup long to learn that once he was off the leash there was no way I could affect him unless he wanted to be affected. IE, there is no way on earth I am going to catch him unless he wants to be caught.

I would give pup a very mild stimulation just as I called him. By mild, I mean the lowest stimulation he could feel. We worked that out through experimentation. Over time, he learned to associate the stimulation as gentle leash pressure. The stimulation is NOT adversive pain. Just, a gentle stimulation. So that in his mind my hand was still attached to his collar via an invisible leash. The biggest thing it eliminated was the tendency for him to just look at me, when I called, and then wander away.

FWIW, I had a family member do the same sort of training to me as I intended to do with Ole while I had the collar attached to my wrist. At a very low level, it feels to me like an insect was landing on my arm.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Larry Krohn, Michael Ellis, Ivan Balabanov all great e-collar trainers.

I would suggest the Michael Ellis videos on Learburg.

I use Dogtra 1900 collars but they are old. They have newer models now. The educator collars are quality as well. You walnut 100 plus levels of stim. These are the only 2 brands of dollars I would recommend.

I recommend you work with a trainer to get your timing down and see what proper working levels look like. You want a low stim trainer. Stay away from the easy button trainers that use high levels. There are several that are popular on YouTube.


----------



## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Never ever use an e collar by yourself if you have never used one. Find a trainer who is qualified. Heck find a place that trains hunting dogs. If you can’t don’t use an ecollar it not fair to the dog and can cause serious ramifications that last a life time.


----------



## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

Wanted to give a link to Leerburg On Demand | The Electric Collar with Michael Ellis .

Somehow I missed this when I started. I haven't seen it, but Michael Ellis' other work seems to resonate with me. His explanation of theory makes sense to me. The practice and drills he demonstrates seem to work with Ole.

But, for some reason, Ed Frawley, the Learburg owner's teaching style rubs me the wrong way  Years ago he demonstrated an emergency stop command by:
1. Amping up his dog.
2. Throwing a toy.
3. Yelling stop.
4. Yanking on the dog's long lead as hard as he could.
5. Dog went flying head over heels.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

davewis said:


> Wanted to give a link to Leerburg On Demand | The Electric Collar with Michael Ellis .
> 
> Somehow I missed this when I started. I haven't seen it, but Michael Ellis' other work seems to resonate with me. His explanation of theory makes sense to me. The practice and drills he demonstrates seem to work with Ole.
> 
> ...


Ed has come a long way. I remember some pretty barbaric training that was commonplace back in the 70s.

I wouldn't let an old video of his throw any shade on the newer stuff they produce. Tyler Muto is working with them know, as well as Andrew Ramsey, Forrest Micke and of course Michael Ellis.


----------



## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

@David Winners I am a relatively new and often times naive dog owner (2 years with my rescue; 6 months with my GSD), but I just started using marker words about 2 months ago. And they have made a tremendous difference in my dogs' obedience. My first trainer was a bit old school (he didn't believe in marker words), and I had no demonstration/ hands on experience on how markers could help shape behaviour. I am wondering if the e collar is similar in the sense that it can produce great results and I just don't know it.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> @David Winners I am a relatively new and often times naive dog owner (2 years with my rescue; 6 months with my GSD), but I just started using marker words about 2 months ago. And they have made a tremendous difference in my dogs' obedience. My first trainer was a bit old school (he didn't believe in marker words), and I had no demonstration/ hands on experience on how markers could help shape behaviour. I am wondering if the e collar is similar in the sense that it can produce great results and I just don't know it.


I think you raise a good point. I would venture to guesstimate that the majority of people on here that I have seen that have a rock solid recall did it right from the starting with off leash training coupled with appropriate exercise and adventures training. The bulk of the rest seemed to use various methods and then used the e collar for proofing after the training. I have not seen too many people posting that used low stim training for the process.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

There is no doubt an e collar can produce great results. It isn't common place in high level sports and obedience for no reason. It can also create a lot of other problems, is easy to mess up even in experienced hands, and can easily tip into abuse for a lot of reasons. I highly recommend working with some one experienced. I will tell you that Michael Ellis is my trainer of choice to follow. I think he is very well spoken and easy to follow. If you do make the decision to use one and you can't find someone to help you, at least ask some of the experienced people here. I use educator collars.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

davewis said:


> Wanted to give a link to Leerburg On Demand | The Electric Collar with Michael Ellis .
> 
> Somehow I missed this when I started. I haven't seen it, but Michael Ellis' other work seems to resonate with me. His explanation of theory makes sense to me. The practice and drills he demonstrates seem to work with Ole.
> 
> ...


One thing I will say about Ed Frawley is his experience working police dogs shows in his methods. I find them geared towards a very specific type of dog with a very specific purpose. A lot of it can be too much for the average dog if you ask me.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I do a lot of e-collar work with some dogs. I'm a low stim guy. I started off with Lou Castle protocols and had some good success. I made some mistakes along the way just like anything else.

I typically use NePoPo if I'm doing the training, but it's hard to explain and even harder for clients to get the timing and mechanics of everything right.

The Michael Ellis DVD is very informative and easy to follow. I haven't seen the online course, but I can't imagine it wouldn't suffice for a new trainer. He's very good at explaining things.

I know he tends to layer e-collar over known commands for proofing. 

Recall seems to be the popular behavior to train with the e-collar, and for pet dogs I think it's useful. A lot of owners let the dog get collar wise and it will only recall with the collar on. I much prefer to build a strong recall first and then proof with the e-collar. I think this builds a stronger recall.


----------



## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

David Winners said:


> A lot of owners let the dog get collar wise


Yes, I let my last black lab get collar wise. He wore his e collar whenever he was off-leash. For the last 8 years or so, it didn't have any prongs or electronic innards because they broke. But his hearing seemed to be better if he had the rubber collar with its plastic case around his neck.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

davewis said:


> Yes, I let my last black lab get collar wise. He wore his e collar whenever he was off-leash. For the last 8 years or so, it didn't have any prongs or electronic innards because they broke. But his hearing seemed to be better if he had the rubber collar with its plastic case around his neck.


Its funny, I have heard of some trainers using the collar wise situation to their advantage. They do the normal introduction to the e collar, having the dog wear it without using it. Once they actually want to use it, they pair it with the fur saver. That way the only time the dog is getting the stim is when it has on the fur saver. Then when they trial, the dog believes the fur saver is the real cause of the stim, and its like they are trialing a collar wise dog with the e collar on.


----------



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

My dog was trained on the ecollar at Ivan Balabanov’s training center. He went for 5 weeks of board and train and they proofed his obedience with an ecollar.

The ecollar they told me to get is in the link below. It’s reasonably priced, has 18 correction levels, and has vibration and tone levels. They taught me how to use it with Dexter and it’s been a game changer. I don’t really have to use it at all now. Like others have said, it’s more stim...as a reminder when dog is off leash or to proof obedience.

My dog is reactive towards other dogs. I work on obedience around other dogs and correct for the obedience not the reactivity. 






Amazon.com: Garmin Delta XC Bundle - dog training device


Amazon.com: Garmin Delta XC Bundle - dog training device



www.amazon.com


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I like E-collar technology's collars. I started with the Mini Educator and switched to the Boss because I needed a higher stim level. I essentially use the collar as a prong collar. I use the lowest level stim necessary to get a response, which changes, such as when doing bite work and the dog is in a higher state of drive. If my dog isn't showing the behavior I want to see, I rapidly press the stim button repeatedly until the dog corrects the behavior and the stim goes away. Like someone said, this is after many repetitions using food, a toy, and a prong collar and eventually you have to fade the e-collar and not use it all the time. On occasion, I will make the stim more adversive, such as in trying to get a cleaner out, but that is rare. The biggest mistake is to over stim a dog, especially when he doesn't really know what you are asking of him, which can create avoidance issues. The level will also depend on the dog because each dog responds differently to a particular stim level in particular situations.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I like E-collar technology's collars. I started with the Mini Educator and switched to the Boss because I needed a higher stim level. I essentially use the collar as a prong collar. I use the lowest level stim necessary to get a response, which changes, such as when doing bite work and the dog is in a higher state of drive. If my dog isn't showing the behavior I want to see, I rapidly press the stim button repeatedly until the dog corrects the behavior and the stim goes away. Like someone said, this is after many repetitions using food, a toy, and a prong collar and eventually you have to fade the e-collar and not use it all the time. On occasion, I will make the stim more adversive, such as in trying to get a cleaner out, but that is rare. The biggest mistake is to over stim a dog, especially when he doesn't really know what you are asking of him, which can create avoidance issues. The level will also depend on the dog because each dog responds differently to a particular stim level in particular situations.


In more advanced situations, where the dog understands the collar, I will stim and dial up at the same time, increasing level until you get compliance. 

I use this primarily for recall and critter proofing. I like choppy stim for out proofing


----------



## Rogue the Gsd (Apr 17, 2020)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> I know some forum members use e collars to train and track, particularly for recall and off-leash obedience. I am interested in learning, and want to ask for input.
> 
> What is a good brand of e collar and why?
> Is there an online course I can take?
> ...


I am totally new with this but here is what I am doing.

We are using the mini educator from e collar technologies. I found it to be the most recommended and for me the most user friendly.


If you can, I recommend finding someone experienced to show you how or even driving that hour one or two times to show you how. I think many people over hype the difficulty. It’s not that hard if you research create a plan and be consistent with it.
We have a friend who is a police k9 trainer. He showed us how to use it ethically and I felt it was far better than any trainer we researched or went to.

Michael ellis and Tyler muto both lay out the e collar training process nicely for a beginner. I felt confident after their stuff. I also read Larry Krohns book and watched his YouTube videos. Upstate canine has some good videos on the initial training process as well.


----------



## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

Whatever training method you use or which ever collar, do not leave it on when swimming. After never having this issue in 5 months of use, my dog developed very bad pressure sores because I left the collar on during the swim and after. The sores developed because I left it on him with a wet coat.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Roscoe618 said:


> Whatever training method you use or which ever collar, do not leave it on when swimming. After never having this issue in 5 months of use, my dog developed very bad pressure sores because I left the collar on during the swim and after. The sores developed because I left it on him with a wet coat.


That is interesting, my dog has almost always swam with his on. I find the vibrate to be an effective way to call him back if he is far out in the water. How long and how often did your dog have his on? Was it always in the same position or did you rotate it around? How often did you actually use it to stim?


----------



## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

It was on him all day, but I moved it around a few times between the swims and hikes. I never had to use the stim...in fact I rarely use it for recall. I just leave on during hikes in case...


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Roscoe618 said:


> It was on him all day, but I moved it around a few times between the swims and hikes. I never had to use the stim...in fact I rarely use it for recall. I just leave on during hikes in case...


I don't know that the pressure sores were from swimming. They tend to shwo up when the dog wears the collar too much or excessive stim. I don't know how long all day was for you, but the manual says 12 hours max. I was told 6-8 max.


----------



## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> I don't know that the pressure sores were from swimming. They tend to shwo up when the dog wears the collar too much or excessive stim. I don't know how long all day was for you, but the manual says 12 hours max. I was told 6-8 max.


Or too loosely fit which is what happened with a wet coat for maybe 5 hours two days in a row.


----------



## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Never leave an e collar on that long. Poor dog


----------



## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

BigOzzy2018 said:


> Never leave an e collar on that long. Poor dog


What, 5 hours? Lol. We leave our hunting dogs in France (4 dogs at once using the dogtra 1900 for 8 hours a day for a week long hunting trips in the woods. Never had any issues using the bungee style collars!


----------



## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Roscoe618 said:


> What, 5 hours? Lol. We leave our hunting dogs in France (4 dogs at once using the dogtra 1900 for 8 hours a day for a week long hunting trips in the woods. Never had any issues using the bungee style collars!


The bungee is the reason why duh!!!! Plus depends on how long the contacts are.


----------



## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

BigOzzy2018 said:


> The bungee is the reason why duh!!!! Plus depends on how long the contacts are.


 Mr Duh!!! Are you saying the bungee style is good or bad? I don't like the non-bungee collars.

I only use the short contacts.


----------



## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Roscoe618 said:


> Mr Duh!!! Are you saying the bungee style is good or bad? I don't like the non-bungee collars.
> 
> I only use the short contacts.


Mr Duh, yes the bungee are the best. Mine is not all bungee just a circle that is bungee with a snap on easy off easy on


----------



## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

BigOzzy2018 said:


> Mr Duh, yes the bungee are the best. Mine is not all bungee just a circle that is bungee with a snap on easy off easy on


Sounds like one I use. Has a round bungee with the snap in buckle.


----------



## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Roscoe618 said:


> Sounds like one I use. Has a round bungee with the snap in buckle.


Yep love it


----------



## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

Folks, just wanted to let you know that I did find a trainer for e collar. She's an hour away and we had our first session today. I am looking forward to learning. 

Thank you for all the advice!


----------



## Kathy F. (Oct 31, 2020)

JunoVonNarnia said:


> I know some forum members use e collars to train and track, particularly for recall and off-leash obedience. I am interested in learning, and want to ask for input.
> 
> What is a good brand of e collar and why?
> Is there an online course I can take?
> ...


My dogs go absolutely nuts when I pick up their “Einstein” E collars. Tails wagging, hopping up and down and general excitement because they know they are going to get to run free! I do not have ANY affiliation with this company other than having used this brand for 10 plus years and they have GREAT customer service and happily answered questions regarding the 2-dog controller collars. Also, I found out about using E-collard thru a wonderful web site called Leerburg.com They have over 40 years experience training GSD and Belgians. Leerburg, is a retired cop who was a dog handler and more. This web site has hundreds of videos, many of them free, from family dog training to search and rescue, attack dog and more. A complete stranger, state trooper dog handler, told me about this site when he saw me walking my then GSD pup 10 years ago. Having had 3 previous GSDs prior to that pup, I thought I knew it all about German bred GSDs! Ha! Check out Leerburg, you will be happily surprised!


----------



## Kathy F. (Oct 31, 2020)

Rogue the Gsd said:


> I am totally new with this but here is what I am doing.
> 
> We are using the mini educator from e collar technologies. I found it to be the most recommended and for me the most user friendly.
> 
> ...


I totally agree! I’ve used Einstein E collars for over 10 years! I learned about them and Michael Ellis through Leerburg.com They have great training videos, some are free, and Cindy has a forum to answer your questions regarding training and products. They also have clinics with well known trainers. Also I haves used the brand ‘Dogtra’ E collars but like the shape and ease of handling and customer service from Einstein technologies. Hope this helps!


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Ecollar Technology offers wings as contact points that simply screw on after you remove the regular contact points. There are only about 25$. They really improve stim reliability on breeds like GSDs due to their double coat. Another nice feature on some of the very high priced ecollars are finger kicks which are small boxes that attach to the finger you with your thumb to to stim. You can use more than one on one hand when the collar has a regular stim and a rising stim for the other finger kick. But you are getting into about a $1,000 collar.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I use the wings on anything but a very short coated dog. They are available for Dogtra as well.


----------



## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

I have used an ecollar with several dogs and found it to be a useful and humane tool. In general, there is good information out there for self-education. I have and like the Michael Ellis videos. There is also some good stuff out there on youtube (Bart Bellon, Larry Krohn, etc.). 

I have used TriTronics, Dogtra, and Educator collars in the past. I currently have a Dogtra 1900NCP purchased in about 2010 and an Educator K9 402TS purchased in 2014. Both of these models use NIMH batteries and neither is in production anymore. I purchased the Educator because, I had added a dog, the 402TS is a 2 receiver model, and I wanted to give Educator a try. Turns out, I never found the need to use an ecollar with the second dog. Between the two collars, I preferred the Dogtra - to me, it was less fiddly and seemed more reliable (I didn't have to change between modes and the 2nd receiver on the Educator would lose connection to the transmitter). Plus, I preferred the shape of the Dogtra transmitter. As such, I continued to use the Dogtra with the older dog and the Educator got very little use.

Both of those dogs are now gone and I just dusted off both the Dogtra and Educator as we now have a new dog with which I eventually intend to use an ecollar. The batteries in both the Dogtra and Educator are toast. Dogtra continues to support older collars. Batteries for the 1900NCP are readily available, directly from Dogtra and elsewhere. Not so with the Educator. Although I bought the k9 402TS in 2014, E-Collar Technologies no longer carries batteries for it. Not seeing them on the website, I called and was very nicely and politely told that they no longer carry those batteries and that I am on my own (with the implicit suggestion that I should buy a new model). Disappointing. Since I already spent the money on it, I would like to give the Educator another shot due (solely) to the smaller receiver size (the new dog is significantly smaller and has a tight coat). I have been able to locate batteries for the receivers, but after much time searching, I have not been able to locate a ready replacement battery for the transmitter (4.8v, 345+ mah, 2/3AAA x 4 flat). Anybody know of a source? 

If and when I buy a new e-collar in the future, I am inclined toward Dogtra . . . .


----------



## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

David Winners said:


> I do a lot of e-collar work with some dogs. I'm a low stim guy. I started off with Lou Castle protocols and had some good success. I made some mistakes along the way just like anything else.
> 
> I typically use NePoPo if I'm doing the training, but it's hard to explain and even harder for clients to get the timing and mechanics of everything right.
> 
> ...


I'm planning to start my dog with an e-collar in a month or so. He will be a year old at that point. Right now, he comes when called 100% of the time when there are few distractions, but introduce a tempting distraction and... he gets distracted. So I am thinking a low-stim e-collar is like a little reminder to help him focus?

I didn't want to use an e-collar until he was reasonably mature (because puppies are more easily distracted and I don't think it's really fair to expect them to have the focus of an adult dog) and until he had the basic commands down. 

I am going to check out the videos that members have suggested. I would prefer a session or two with an actual trainer but unfortunately, due to Covid, the local trainers are not doing that right now.


----------



## Kathy F. (Oct 31, 2020)

jmdjack said:


> I have used an ecollar with several dogs and found it to be a useful and humane tool. In general, there is good information out there for self-education. I have and like the Michael Ellis videos. There is also some good stuff out there on youtube (Bart Bellon, Larry Krohn, etc.).
> 
> I have used TriTronics, Dogtra, and Educator collars in the past. I currently have a Dogtra 1900NCP purchased in about 2010 and an Educator K9 402TS purchased in 2014. Both of these models use NIMH batteries and neither is in production anymore. I purchased the Educator because, I had added a dog, the 402TS is a 2 receiver model, and I wanted to give Educator a try. Turns out, I never found the need to use an ecollar with the second dog. Between the two collars, I preferred the Dogtra - to me, it was less fiddly and seemed more reliable (I didn't have to change between modes and the 2nd receiver on the Educator would lose connection to the transmitter). Plus, I preferred the shape of the Dogtra transmitter. As such, I continued to use the Dogtra with the older dog and the Educator got very little use.
> 
> ...


We have had similar problems with obtaining new batteries for the Ecollar transmitter. However my husband did google it and found a source for the new batteries. Don’t remember the name,sorry. However, Batteries Plus told me they could make a battery with the correct plug in for the transmitter. I took the battery in and showed them what it needs to look like. Also; since my Einstein unit is 8 years old, I believe I got my monies worth out of the unit and don’t feel too bad about upgrading the unit from them to the new collars with the new batteries. Their customer service has been fantastic in the past for me.


----------



## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

Kathy F. said:


> We have had similar problems with obtaining new batteries for the Ecollar transmitter. However my husband did google it and found a source for the new batteries. Don’t remember the name,sorry. However, Batteries Plus told me they could make a battery with the correct plug in for the transmitter. I took the battery in and showed them what it needs to look like. Also; since my Einstein unit is 8 years old, I believe I got my monies worth out of the unit and don’t feel too bad about upgrading the unit from them to the new collars with the new batteries. Their customer service has been fantastic in the past for me.


Thanks. You had better luck than me. I have spent way too much time searching the internet to no avail, and my local Batteries Plus looked at it, told me they did not have it, and sent me packing. The frustrating thing is that the Educator has barely been used and, but for the batteries, is in nearly new condition. Unlike your experience, I do not feel like I got close to my money's worth out of it. Their customer support was an attempt to sell me a new collar. For the time being, I will use the old Dogtra which is up and running with new batteries. The only thing I dont like about it is the size of the receiver. When it is time for new one, it will be a Dogtra.


----------

