# At wit's end with soft stools



## nygoldengirl

Bella required 4 weeks of antibiotic therapy due to bite wounds. Since then, her stools are way too soft, sometimes formed but mush, sometimes pudding. She has been on Flagyl for one week, then Vet stopped the Flagyl. Bella was on ProPlan large breed puppy, I decided to go with a "better" adult food, am transitioning from Hills I/D which she was on since the antibiotic ordeal. I chose Solid Gold Hund n Flocken lamb adult maintenance food. She is 69 pounds and 10 months old. Vet also added Fortiflora everyday, but still soft stools. Then adding a 1/2 tsp plain Metamucil, no additives, no flavor, twice a day. That has been only three days of use. 
I have mixed gradually the (horrifically expensive) canned I/D with increasing amounts of Solid Gold. Her stools are like a yo yo,but NEVER NORMAL since the March 5th attack and the 4 weeks of antibiotics. 
She has had to have her anal sacs expressed 2 times, probably needs this again. My healthy normal stool puppy is now a never ending nightmare of soft stools. The Vet did recommend adult food for her. 
Should I have gone to ProPlan large breed adult chicken? Yes it's not a " premium food", but the Solid Gold lamb and rice has good ingredients. She is always STARVING, because she was getting two cans a day of I/D, now transitioning to SG she is not getting the 4-41/2 cups kibble plus a little wet she was used to. My Vet said NOT to use Prozyme. 
She goes more often with the Metamucil, but it seemed to be firming her up the second day, then I increased the Solid Gold the next day maybe too much too rapidly, back to pudding. BTW, she had pudding stools on I/D too. The SG is kibble, she loves it. 

What can I do? Take her to another Vet? This Vet Center has a full staff of specialists, so I doubt another Vet would help. They took terrific care of Bella as a medical boarder. Is my dog doomed to have soft stools and gland problems forever? BTW, Tylan powder was suggested as a possibility, but that has side effects too. I am truly at the end of my rope.


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## suzzyq01

canned pumpkin is good to harden up stool. Make sure it is just pumpkin and not the pumpkin pie filling. 

Also you can add cooked brown rice to her diet, it will help her process the food a little easier. Baked sweet potato is a good additive also.


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## JeffM

Although my experience is no where near the reason your puppy has loose stool, when one of our boys has the runs (more than 1), we feed them hamburger and rice for a few days.

Thor would always have loose poo as a puppy until we figured out he got it from too much food. When we went from 2 to 3 feedings they got better.

Now that we switched to a 'healthier', higher quality food, Go!, his (and Riggs) poo are awesome.


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## suzzyq01

another thought is the canned food tends to give them the runs, i would stop using that as most vets make a ton of money off Science Diet and recommending it to their patients. It's extreamly expensive and you can do just as well with natural foods as mentioned previously. Good luck!


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## jaggirl47

Tylan powder works very well when there is an over abundance of bacteria in the belly. This can actually happen easily when they are on different antibiotics for other issues.
What side effects were you told of with the Tylan? I personally have never seen any.


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## nygoldengirl

I have pumpkin cubes in freezer and boil in bag rice (white, but better than none for now), used both in past. Trouble is when a Vet is calling the shots, they do not like it when you use your own ideas. My sister-in-law the dog trainer does believe in using your own ideas. I could try some pumpkin and rice. I will say after the antibiotic episode rice and pumpkin did not help much but that was before the Flagyl. 
Would you add another item into the equation, like rice and pumpkin, along with the Meramucil and the Fortiflora? Would you continue to transition slowly to the SG? My regular Vet returns Saturday, the other Vets know Bella at the center and one of them suggested the Metamucil. The once or twice she really had diarrhea I did use rice & civken or boiled beef, but she does not have diarrhea....yet! Will pumpkin and rice mask the underlying problem, or is she just recovering from 4 weeks of antibiotics? OR does she have an inherited GI problem that surfaced as she grew older? Advice is so gratefully appreciated!


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## nygoldengirl

suzzyq01 said:


> another thought is the canned food tends to give them the runs, i would stop using that as most vets make a ton of money off Science Diet and recommending it to their patients. It's extreamly expensive and you can do just as well with natural foods as mentioned previously. Good luck!


My s-in-law says the same thing!!! The canned food does not bind them enough! Sure the I/D is bland, but so is rice & chix or boiled beef. I want to get her off the canned stuff. I began the transition to Solid Gold a week ago. maybe I am going too slow, should mix in rice and pumpkin, use more SG and reduce the canned stuff!!!!


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## nygoldengirl

jaggirl47 said:


> Tylan powder works very well when there is an over abundance of bacteria in the belly. This can actually happen easily when they are on different antibiotics for other issues.
> What side effects were you told of with the Tylan? I personally have never seen any.


M regular Vet mentioned Tylan, said some GSD 's need it. When she returns Sat, maybe we should give it a try. Meantime, I am thinking make some rice and thaw the pumpkin cubes and give her some. Can it hurt?


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## suzzyq01

nygoldengirl said:


> I have pumpkin cubes in freezer and boil in bag rice (white, but better than none for now), used both in past. Trouble is when a Vet is calling the shots, they do not like it when you use your own ideas. My sister-in-law the dog trainer does believe in using your own ideas. I could try some pumpkin and rice. I will say after the antibiotic episode rice and pumpkin did not help much but that was before the Flagyl.
> Would you add another item into the equation, like rice and pumpkin, along with the Meramucil and the Fortiflora? Would you continue to transition slowly to the SG? My regular Vet returns Saturday, the other Vets know Bella at the center and one of them suggested the Metamucil. The once or twice she really had diarrhea I did use rice & civken or boiled beef, but she does not have diarrhea....yet! Will pumpkin and rice mask the underlying problem, or is she just recovering from 4 weeks of antibiotics? OR does she have an inherited GI problem that surfaced as she grew older? Advice is so gratefully appreciated!



These questions are hard to answer. Honestly it becomes a trial and error tactic. That is what the vet is doing because even though they are knowledgeable about illnesses the dog can not talk to him and tell him the problem. 

I would add 1/4 cup of puraded pumpkin and 1/4 cup boiled rice and 1 tablespoon of plan yogurt to the Solid Gold or whatever you are feeding her. She has had some much stuff pumping through her body for weeks she maybe sick from it all. 

Pumpkin should help bind her up naturally 
Rice is gentle on her stomach as it digest it
and the yogurt might help bring back some of the probiotics that were killed off during all the antibiotics. 

(if you are on antibiotics for a while your doctor will tell you to eat yogurt or you may end up with a yeast infection because some of the good bacteria is killed in the process of killing the bad)

Stay strong!


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## suzzyq01

nygoldengirl said:


> My s-in-law says the same thing!!! The canned food does not bind them enough! Sure the I/D is bland, but so is rice & chix or boiled beef. I want to get her off the canned stuff. I began the transition to Solid Gold a week ago. maybe I am going too slow, should mix in rice and pumpkin, use more SG and reduce the canned stuff!!!!



transitions should take about a week.

25% new food 75% old food (day 1-2)
50/50 (3-4)
75% new food 25% old food (day 5-7)
100% (day 8)


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## JakodaCD OA

It very well could have been the antibiotics giving her the soft stools which still could be in her system.

I've heard more than one person say they couldn't feed SG because THAT gave their dogs the runs

I'd try the bland diet first, I usually go with brown rice, (not the 5 minute kind) , canned pumpkin, and very low fat cooked hamburger..I would do that for atleast 4 days, see how it goes, and then transition to some other food. 

Good luck !

Oh and just wanted to add, vets sometimes "think" they know everything, but we know our dogs best, and as one said, trial and error, but we do what works for our dogs..


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## Mika140

If your dog was doing well on Pro Plan before the incident and antibioics, I'd work on getting her back on that food, rather than switching to something new. In fact, I'd go with the Pro Plan formula that she tolerated ok before the problems came up, or use their sensitive stomach formula. Otherwise, there are way too many unknowns with so many new foods & supplements being added in all at once. I'm not a fan of the Pro Plan ingredients either, but when my dog is sick, I'm willing to feed whatever will work. You can always switch to something else once your dog is stable again.

As for the Tylan, my dog just started it....it's very safe and many dogs end up using it as a lifetime supplement. It can take about 2 weeks though to really have an impact, and generally needs to be used for at least a couple months (according to our internal med specialist).


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## JakodaCD OA

I agree with Mika on the food,,if PP worked, go back to it,,I used the Sensitive skin/stomache at one point, and my aussie did GREAT on it, however, he got fat as a pig, there is a high fat content I guess


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## Pattycakes

My GSD puppy had soft stools up until she was about 9 months old. I tried everything. Sometimes it would work for a day or two, then right back to the soft stools. When she was about 9 (or 10) months old, I had to take her to the vet for a different problem. They suggested I take her off of puppy food and put her on adult food. So I did that...still the same problem. I was talking to the lady that I would take my dog to for doggie day care and she mentioned that her GSD had a very sensitive stomach and that he was allergic to chicken in his food. Once she said that, I went over in my head what I had been feeding my dog...Chicken dog food, chicken and rice when she had diarrhea, chicken treats for training. She suggested I put my puppy on a Salmon based food so I did the gradual switch to the BB Basics Salmon/Potato and within 2-3 days...she had solid stool. On the rare occasions that she does get diarrhea (cuz she ate something that she shouldn't  ) I will give her the cooked ground beef (drained really good) and rice. But I have to say...switching her over to that got rid of her soft stool problem. She also gets some plain yogurt in the evening for probiotics. 

I'm not saying that is the problem with your dog, but I hope you find the "trigger" so you can get it sorted out. And if going back to her PP dog food will help, by all means do that.


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## vomlittlehaus

Oh my gosh. I am so confused as to what you are actually feeding now. The antibiotics will kill the good and bad stuff. The bacteria in the digestive tract is out of balance. Sounds like you are doing too much. Get rid of all the supplements and just give her green tripe. It will get the digestive tract back in balance. Dogs LOVE it. You may have to feed it for an entire week before the stools firm up. But it will give hard stools that will clean out the anal sacs too. You can then gradually add in the kibble you want to feed. That should take a week to switch over. When she is back on track, if you want to feed a chicken back twice a week to give her hard stool, you can do that too.


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## sable123

Fast her for 24 hours, no fiber, no food, no treats just water. After that give her 1 cup twice a day and see how she is doing.

Pro Plan has beet pulp in it and that will help mop things up internally. Many of these designer, holistic foods have tomato pomace which doesn't help much if things get out of balance. Beet pulp does and actually is the best at fostering internal flora.

This dog needs a break for a day, then 2 cups the next day or two after that.

I would also take some long walks so she is stimulated to evacuate.


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## jaggirl47

Her gut bacteria are way off. I do actually have to agree with Sable on 1 thing....she does need a 24 hour fast.
However, she needs to be on a longer course (minimum 10 days) of Flagyl or a 4 week course of Tylan to get the bacteria in proper balance.


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## nygoldengirl

I agree her intestinal tract is off course with abnormal bacterial flora. I am STOPPING the Metamucil. She went 4 times today. In Bella, it's acting as a laxative, not a binder!!! Works differently in different cases. I have IBS and Metamucil evens things out, but in my GSD, IMO it's a laxative. We stopped the Flagyl after 7 days. My regular Vet returns Saturday, as I said before. I am willing to try a course of Tylan. Flagyl does have neurological side effects, like all drugs you weigh the pros and cons. The Vet seemed to feel the next drug would be Tylan. I also am going with tried and true wisdom: stop the I/D canned food and go with Solid Gold kibble, rice, pumpkin, and maybe boiled or baked sweet potato???(Thoughts welcome!!!). 

I am thinking the long use of canned I/D did not help. Either Bella has developed a kind of colitis or long term intestinal disorder which did not express itself earlier or was triggered by the 4 weeks of very powerful antibiotics, (I believe she had a pseudomonas infection in one of the bite wounds) or her intestinal flora never normalized. Ten days of an antibiotic are often almost unbearable for me. She had 4 weeks. 

As for the fast: she does not have frank diarrhea yet, which is why the Metamucil goes. I normally would fast her if she had running watery diarrhea. I am on the fence here. I could go tomorrow with several approaches; Solid Gold kibble with rice, pumpkin, the Fortiflora, maybe buy some sweet potato; chicken, or boiled beef and rice and pumpkin, or a fast for 12 to 24 hours, water only. Then one of those regimens. Also, what opinion do you all have on Prozyme? I bought some, the Vet said not to use it, it is for enzyme insufficiency, but can it hurt? 

There are two possibilities here. She has an abnormal intestinal flora which can be normalized using the RIGHT METHODS, or, she has an underlying intestinal disorder like colitis, enzyme deficiency, any of the GI disorders pure bred GSD's can have. But she flourished and grew tremendously and was active and had normal stools until the horrible attack in doggie day care. Which is it? BTW the day care center has refused to pay her Vet bills: they are ENORMOUS!!!

I must make a decision to fast her or go with no more I/D canned food and either the kibble plus rice, etc, or chix or beef and rice plus pumpkin. The Vets there are all good, but they all have different ideas. Until her primary Vet returns on Saturday, I think we need to use a common sense approach, unless I ask them to prescribe Tylan NOW. 
One horrible incident has caused such a world if trouble for the best dog you could have. All advice is very seriously taken. I want Bella to recover!!! Thank you all so very much, I am truly at a loss which way to go. PS, her strength and stamina are reduced since the attack and treatment, and she sometimes favors the most badly bitten leg. I annotate sure whether she has residual damage although the Vet said it us very unlikely. But she sometimes limps. A nightmare.


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## jaggirl47

Personally, if it were me, I would stop giving mixtures of all different foods, fast her, then start her on bland with a course of Tylan for 6 weeks. Her gut is messed up and is not being given any rest. More and more stuff is getting shoved down her throat before the actual issue is even taken care of.
Her bacteria needs to be balanced. That should be number 1.


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## middleofnowhere

Sorry is someone said all of this before:
I agree with "go back to what worked" and hang what the ingredient list says for now. Then add some pumpkin with it & some yogurt to replenish the good bacteria in her gut. 
Good luck - fancy food = puddying pup down here too.


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## CHawkins

Brown rice? I was told brown rice can cause diarrhea. I was always told use white rice. Just curious....anyone else use brown rice instead of the white?


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## wyominggrandma

I keep lactobacillis(sp) tablets on hand. When anybody has the runs, they get a couple of tablets immediatley and it sure seems to get the good flora going in the intestines again. I use it for myself also when I get an upset stomach.


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## JeffM

CHawkins said:


> Brown rice? I was told brown rice can cause diarrhea. I was always told use white rice. Just curious....anyone else use brown rice instead of the white?


We use brown rice (20 minute)


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## Mika140

Don't want to sound like a broken record.....but....why would you use a new food that is an unknown and that she could do poorly on by itself? Especially when you just wrote that she did fantastic on a specific food for the first part of her life? If you already know that she did fantastic on a certain food before the bite incident, it seems like a decent idea to go back to that food. From there, you could at least rule out things. But with all the new additions she's getting now, there's no way to tell which addition is causing the problems, or whether it is just her GI system. Sounds like her body is being pulled in a million different directions right now.


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## nygoldengirl

I stopped the Metamucil! Think it was acting like laxative! Gave her kibble, rice and pumpkin, she last ate 5PM last night, ate 9:30AM, so basically fasted a good length of time. She is very tired, no energy, maybe not absorbing any nutrients. I COULD get Rx for Tylan powder maybe before Saturday when her regular Vet is in. Can it hurt her? 

As for her former food, it was puppy food, too rich for her, Vet said to put her on adult food, so there would have been a change. The stomach problems started with the attack, leg surgery and 4 weeks of antibiotics. She also started limping!!! If thus was from the bite, I would think she would have limped the end of March. She cavorts that leg a little, but not when she was running, and it was very subtle. I wonder if anal glands are bothering her when she walks? What a mess!


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## nygoldengirl

OK, here is update on Bella. She is on ONLY Solid Gold Hund n Flocken Lamb Adult Maintenance dry food, some rice, FortiFlora probiotic packet divided between 2 feedings,and 1/2 tsp Tylan powder twice a day. Nothing else. Vet told me to discontinue pumpkin, can make their stools soft ( I am not sure I agree with this, she was getting an ice cube size of pure pumpkin twice a day). Her stools are still soft, a little bit more formed, but still very soft. The Vet said it could take weeks for the Tylan to show results. 

Now, thus 10 month old had NO problems before the dog attack and 4 weeks on antibiotics. She was also on ProPlan chicken and rice puppy food for large breeds. It was my intention to switch her to the ProPlan adult large breed chicken. The breeder I got her from fed all their dogs ProPlan. I KNOW it has "undesirable" ingredients like by products, corn, etc., and is frowned upon by the current holistic food approach. But she was thriving. 

Question: is her problem only a result of 4,weeks of antibiotics, (she was given FortFlora), and her GI flora are messed up? She took Flagyl for a week before the Tylan. 
Did she suddenly exhibit a genetic GI problem which only manifested itself when coincidentally she turned 8 months and is untwisted to the 4 weeks of antibiotic? Like IBS, Colitis, etc? 
Could it be that Bella actually does well on a so called inferior food? And I should have either kept her on the puppy or transitioned her to the adult ProPlan with the chicken and rice canned food added just a couple tablespoons? 
This dog had ONE episode of diarrhea when she was younger, ckix and rice or boiled beef and rice after fasting cleared that up in 4 days. 

BTW, the Vets pushed Science Prescription cannedI/D, that us what she ate while in patient for two weeks, and off and on until she went in Solid Gold. I/D is very expensive, I have a case just because it's a bland food ( but chicken or boiled beef and rice is also bland). 

I did try transitioning her from the I/D back to her ProPlan puppy food and she was having pudding stools. I transitioned per Vet over a week. Back she went on only I/D, was starving and licking her bowl, went on Flagyl, transitioned fromI/d to Solid Gold, stools still very soft but instead of a lump of pudding, now what I called formed mush, once or twice was actually normal, but basically formed mush. 

Now, was the pumpkin hurting her or helping her? The covering Vet prescribed Clear Metamucil, and that acted as a laxative so I stopped that!!!!
Now in addition to the huge Vet bill I have because the Doggie Day Care that was unsupervised adequately and where the attack occurred refusing to pay her inpatient bills, I now am going to the Vet for her stomach! I had a healthy, no problem GSD, now I have a dog who needs their anal glands expressed so far three times since the attack March 5th. 

I gave a detailed account because my first husband was a Dr, I research my own health treatment and every drug ( the less intervention the better and second + opinions is my motto for myself). A pet health food store sold me Prozyme,, the Vet said not to give it to her. Sometimes I think she would eventually have done OK on ProPlan! There are three possibilities: the antibiotics severely affected her GI tract and it will take a long time to normalize; she had a genetic problem which COINCIDENTALLY emerged after the dig attack; she needs a different food. Plus what about the pumpkin? Was it right to stop it?

This is a nightmare. Bella does not have diarrhea, just very soft stools, and her output is a little more frequent, which could be her stomach, Solid Gold, who knows. Should I keep her on the Tylan for several weeks with NO other changes in her diet, as the Vet suggested, and see what happens? FortiFlora definitely I am to give her. 
Should I return pumpkin to her food? Should she take Prozyme? 
A blood panel and other tests the Vet said definitely hold off unless NOTHING helps. 
Bella is a wonderful, normal dog. She is slim but very tall and very long, and at 70lbs the Vet said better than obese. 

Sorry to post such a long reply, but thus is a diagnostic mystery. What makes it a mystery is whether the dog attack and antibiotic treatment is a factor more than a month later, is it a genetic trait out if nowhere, was she better off on a "junkie" food, is the Solid Gold not helping, but not harming, is there a fiid guaranteed to firm up stools? 
Any advice is as always deeply appreciated. 
BTW, I did not add Solid Gold canned food, just rice, which makes it more difficult to mix in the Tylan and be sure she eats the full dose. Would a little canned food hurt? Thanks so much for being such a great resource and forum!


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## lrodptl

With my dog I transition new food over 1 month. 25% in the first week and 50% the second week etc. Anything quicker causes the runs. Boiled chicken breast and white rice with pumpkin.Slow and easy-patience. There is a lot of advocacy for a 24 hour fast if things are bad.


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## lrodptl

nygoldengirl said:


> OK, here is update on Bella. She is on ONLY Solid Gold Hund n Flocken Lamb Adult Maintenance dry food, some rice, FortiFlora probiotic packet divided between 2 feedings,and 1/2 tsp Tylan powder twice a day. Nothing else. Vet told me to discontinue pumpkin, can make their stools soft ( I am not sure I agree with this, she was getting an ice cube size of pure pumpkin twice a day). Her stools are still soft, a little bit more formed, but still very soft. The Vet said it could take weeks for the Tylan to show results.
> 
> Now, thus 10 month old had NO problems before the dog attack and 4 weeks on antibiotics. She was also on ProPlan chicken and rice puppy food for large breeds. It was my intention to switch her to the ProPlan adult large breed chicken. The breeder I got her from fed all their dogs ProPlan. I KNOW it has "undesirable" ingredients like by products, corn, etc., and is frowned upon by the current holistic food approach. But she was thriving.
> 
> Question: is her problem only a result of 4,weeks of antibiotics, (she was given FortFlora), and her GI flora are messed up? She took Flagyl for a week before the Tylan.
> Did she suddenly exhibit a genetic GI problem which only manifested itself when coincidentally she turned 8 months and is untwisted to the 4 weeks of antibiotic? Like IBS, Colitis, etc?
> Could it be that Bella actually does well on a so called inferior food? And I should have either kept her on the puppy or transitioned her to the adult ProPlan with the chicken and rice canned food added just a couple tablespoons?
> This dog had ONE episode of diarrhea when she was younger, ckix and rice or boiled beef and rice after fasting cleared that up in 4 days.
> 
> BTW, the Vets pushed Science Prescription cannedI/D, that us what she ate while in patient for two weeks, and off and on until she went in Solid Gold. I/D is very expensive, I have a case just because it's a bland food ( but chicken or boiled beef and rice is also bland).
> 
> I did try transitioning her from the I/D back to her ProPlan puppy food and she was having pudding stools. I transitioned per Vet over a week. Back she went on only I/D, was starving and licking her bowl, went on Flagyl, transitioned fromI/d to Solid Gold, stools still very soft but instead of a lump of pudding, now what I called formed mush, once or twice was actually normal, but basically formed mush.
> 
> Now, was the pumpkin hurting her or helping her? The covering Vet prescribed Clear Metamucil, and that acted as a laxative so I stopped that!!!!
> Now in addition to the huge Vet bill I have because the Doggie Day Care that was unsupervised adequately and where the attack occurred refusing to pay her inpatient bills, I now am going to the Vet for her stomach! I had a healthy, no problem GSD, now I have a dog who needs their anal glands expressed so far three times since the attack March 5th.
> 
> I gave a detailed account because my first husband was a Dr, I research my own health treatment and every drug ( the less intervention the better and second + opinions is my motto for myself). A pet health food store sold me Prozyme,, the Vet said not to give it to her. Sometimes I think she would eventually have done OK on ProPlan! There are three possibilities: the antibiotics severely affected her GI tract and it will take a long time to normalize; she had a genetic problem which COINCIDENTALLY emerged after the dig attack; she needs a different food. Plus what about the pumpkin? Was it right to stop it?
> 
> This is a nightmare. Bella does not have diarrhea, just very soft stools, and her output is a little more frequent, which could be her stomach, Solid Gold, who knows. Should I keep her on the Tylan for several weeks with NO other changes in her diet, as the Vet suggested, and see what happens? FortiFlora definitely I am to give her.
> Should I return pumpkin to her food? Should she take Prozyme?
> A blood panel and other tests the Vet said definitely hold off unless NOTHING helps.
> Bella is a wonderful, normal dog. She is slim but very tall and very long, and at 70lbs the Vet said better than obese.
> 
> Sorry to post such a long reply, but thus is a diagnostic mystery. What makes it a mystery is whether the dog attack and antibiotic treatment is a factor more than a month later, is it a genetic trait out if nowhere, was she better off on a "junkie" food, is the Solid Gold not helping, but not harming, is there a fiid guaranteed to firm up stools?
> Any advice is as always deeply appreciated.
> BTW, I did not add Solid Gold canned food, just rice, which makes it more difficult to mix in the Tylan and be sure she eats the full dose. Would a little canned food hurt? Thanks so much for being such a great resource and forum!


 I would look into the 24 hour Fast approach to get things normalized again.


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## jaggirl47

I really think it was the massive amounts of antibiotics she got with the attack. Do not change her diet. Let her get her belly normalized. You can do some canned to get the Tylan down. I know how hard it is. Tylan is extremely bitter.


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## nygoldengirl

*Idea!!!! Is RAWHIDE bad for Bella?*



jaggirl47 said:


> I really think it was the massive amounts of antibiotics she got with the attack. Do not change her diet. Let her get her belly normalized. You can do some canned to get the Tylan down. I know how hard it is. Tylan is extremely bitter.


I am sticking with the diet, using a little chicken broth and rice for the Tylan. Will ask Vet re: canned. BUT, just had a thought. She is a chewer, big time. She ate half of a compressed rawhide bone today, usually I give her the HUGE white rawhides with big knots on the end, they take a long time to actually eat. The Vet ASKED me if she ingested rawhide. This NEVER bothered her before the antibiotic onslaught. Nothing bothered her! Her poops were perfect, and even ate those " not so great treats" like Snausages, Beggin Strips, anything. 

But now her whole digestive system is like a different dog!! OMG, could the rawhide hurt her? She has to have chew bones, I have some REAL bones that have no meat on them, she can't eat those the same way. She chewed on my settee legs when she was younger, not even Bitter Apple stopped it, even used Tabasco. That behavior stopped finally. She most of her rubber chew toys, toys bore her, but chewing bones? That is her activity when just lying around. Is the rawhide a culprit now????? What can I substitute besides a real bone, like a soup bone boiled and completely bare of meat? A beefy bone? A knuckle bone? Will that hurt her? What a pickle!!!

BTW her breeder weighed in from NM. He agreed the antibiotics "done her in". He feeds ProPlan, which she grew up on and thrived on, but he said Solid Gold is a good food and don't switch her NOW back to ProPlan or any other food until she is normal. He ALSO DISAPPROVES of Tylan powder. Just one more antibiotic, his Vet he uses for his breeding champions says. He believes just probiotics and NO Tylan. Who is right?


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## jaggirl47

You need the Tylan. I have a GSD with chronic SIBO. Do not stop the Tylan. It is a much different type of antibiotic than the ones used to combat your pup's issues.
My boy cannot have rawhide, pigs ears, or cow hooves. It messes his intestines up and usually ends up with bloody poop. He does great on knucklebones though.


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## nygoldengirl

*Thanks for advice re Tylan & Rawhide*



jaggirl47 said:


> You need the Tylan. I have a GSD with chronic SIBO. Do not stop the Tylan. It is a much different type of antibiotic than the ones used to combat your pup's issues.
> My boy cannot have rawhide, pigs ears, or cow hooves. It messes his intestines up and usually ends up with bloody poop. He does great on knucklebones though.


I will continue the Tylan, I won't give those compressed bones anymore, the knuckle bones are real bones and she must have something to chew on, since when she is on her own and I am preoccupied, chewing keeps her happy, rubber toys don't cut it. The huge rawhides with knots really take forever to "ingest" anything, but the compressed big bone was nothing for her teeth and bite force. I will stick with stuff that is not readily ingested, more just for gnawing on. Otherwise she might go back to the furniture, lol!!!

I knew pure bred Shepherds were very prone to gut problems. Thank goodness she had strong hips and not that extremely sloping build which wins ribbons but often leads to hip dysphasia. I will post an up to date pix. My husband who sadly passed away in 2009 from Agent Orange, and had bred pure bred dogs as a hobby, said mixed breed had less problems. Our last dog was gorgeous, maybe 90% Shepherd but her ears suggested retriever and her teeth suggested werewolf! Lol! She ate anything! I really appreciate your response. The easily ingested rashness go, the Tylan stays!!!! Thanks so much!


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## jaggirl47

nygoldengirl said:


> I will continue the Tylan, I won't give those compressed bones anymore, the knuckle bones are real bones and she must have something to chew on, since when she is on her own and I am preoccupied, chewing keeps her happy, rubber toys don't cut it. The huge rawhides with knots really take forever to "ingest" anything, but the compressed big bone was nothing for her teeth and bite force. I will stick with stuff that is not readily ingested, more just for gnawing on. Otherwise she might go back to the furniture, lol!!!
> 
> I knew pure bred Shepherds were very prone to gut problems. Thank goodness she had strong hips and not that extremely sloping build which wins ribbons but often leads to hip dysphasia. I will post an up to date pix. My husband who sadly passed away in 2009 from Agent Orange, and had bred pure bred dogs as a hobby, said mixed breed had less problems. Our last dog was gorgeous, maybe 90% Shepherd but her ears suggested retriever and her teeth suggested werewolf! Lol! She ate anything! I really appreciate your response. The easily ingested rashness go, the Tylan stays!!!! Thanks so much!


 
No prob.  Keep in mind, alot of us have GSD's with very similar issues. Certain treatments do not work on every dog, but the tried and true treatments work on most.
Just give it a little time and I will keep my fingers crossed for you.


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## sable123

You know I don't live too far from you. I feel like driving up and taking to the dog to my farm for a few weeks!!!!

Stop all this madness. I really don't wanna suggest a food change. Feed the Solid Gold in two meals. Buy another probiotic because Forti Flora is very expensive, try Jarrow PetDophilus. 

No rice, no pumpkin, no oils, no rawhides, nothing else. Pumpkin is not a cure-all despite what people think.

I would rather see a dog with soft stools on a food with beet pulp and psyllium but just stay with what you have.

There is a good chance you are feeding too much. Don't give more than 2 cups at each feeding.


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## sable123

By the way, I just noticed that Solid Gold is Lamb-based. Lamb is the wrong protein for this situation. Hard to digest, high in ash, wrong, wrong, wrong


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## jaggirl47

sable, right now this dog just needs to not be switched so her gut can actually get more stable. It is not the food at this point. Did you read the entire thread?


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## nygoldengirl

*Lamb in dog food*



sable123 said:


> By the way, I just noticed that Solid Gold is Lamb-based. Lamb is the wrong protein for this situation. Hard to digest, high in ash, wrong, wrong, wrong


I thought lamb is fed to dogs with sensitive guts, and fish based foods! 
What is the meat source that is better? Could each dog react differently?


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## jaggirl47

nygoldengirl said:


> I thought lamb is fed to dogs with sensitive guts, and fish based foods!
> What is the meat source that is better? Could each dog react differently?


Lamb and fish are good. The other poster does not own GSD's and does not know what works best with them.


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## sable123

jaggirl47 said:


> Lamb and fish are good. The other poster does not own GSD's and does not know what works best with them.


Lamb is bad protein for any dog with soft stools. It is generally very low quality unless the very expensive low-ash varieties are used.

It is hard to digest, period. That is why you don't see many high protein red meat foods leading with lamb unless they are using the expensive types of meals or beef is the lead protein. Ash content would be off the charts. It is a bad protein.

I would put that dog on Pro Plan Sensitive tummy or Selects Turkey for a while.


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## jaggirl47

Nygoldengirl,

Leave your dog on what she is on. Allow the Tylan to work. Just give it some time. If you keep changing up the food, it will most likely continue to further mess up the belly.


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## GSDGunner

jaggirl47 said:


> Nygoldengirl,
> 
> Leave your dog on what she is on. Allow the Tylan to work. Just give it some time. If you keep changing up the food, it will most likely continue to further mess up the belly.


Absolutely agree. Switching now can/will cause further issues. Gunner has been on Tylan powder several times, with great success. Give it time to work and follow the directions.


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## robinhuerta

BTW....."Toplines on dogs do not lead to hip dysplasia"...FYI.


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## vomlittlehaus

I agree with leaving her on one diet. Do not give rawhide or treats or anything else. If you must give her something to chew on, get a bone from the butcher. Make sure all the meat and marrow is removed. Just the bone should be fine for her and not cause any more diarrhea. The antibiotics she was on has gotten rid of the beneficial bacteria in the gut. How are you putting that back? I am not familiar with Tylan Powder (will look it up when I am done posting), and what it is for. I have found green tripe to be very beneficial to getting the gut bacteria back in alignment. Diarrhea is usually (not always) caused by an unbalance of bacteria in the intestines. That is why vets will prescribe Metacam for diarrhea. Her digestive system is so stressed out, fasting would be a good idea at this point.


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## MegansGrace

nygoldengirl said:


> Bella required 4 weeks of antibiotic therapy due to bite wounds. Since then, her stools are way too soft, sometimes formed but mush, sometimes pudding. She has been on Flagyl for one week, then Vet stopped the Flagyl. Bella was on ProPlan large breed puppy, I decided to go with a "better" adult food, am transitioning from Hills I/D which she was on since the antibiotic ordeal. I chose Solid Gold Hund n Flocken lamb adult maintenance food. She is 69 pounds and 10 months old. Vet also added Fortiflora everyday, but still soft stools. Then adding a 1/2 tsp plain Metamucil, no additives, no flavor, twice a day. That has been only three days of use.
> I have mixed gradually the (horrifically expensive) canned I/D with increasing amounts of Solid Gold. Her stools are like a yo yo,but NEVER NORMAL since the March 5th attack and the 4 weeks of antibiotics.
> She has had to have her anal sacs expressed 2 times, probably needs this again. My healthy normal stool puppy is now a never ending nightmare of soft stools. The Vet did recommend adult food for her.
> Should I have gone to ProPlan large breed adult chicken? Yes it's not a " premium food", but the Solid Gold lamb and rice has good ingredients. She is always STARVING, because she was getting two cans a day of I/D, now transitioning to SG she is not getting the 4-41/2 cups kibble plus a little wet she was used to. My Vet said NOT to use Prozyme.
> She goes more often with the Metamucil, but it seemed to be firming her up the second day, then I increased the Solid Gold the next day maybe too much too rapidly, back to pudding. BTW, she had pudding stools on I/D too. The SG is kibble, she loves it.
> 
> What can I do? Take her to another Vet? This Vet Center has a full staff of specialists, so I doubt another Vet would help. They took terrific care of Bella as a medical boarder. Is my dog doomed to have soft stools and gland problems forever? BTW, Tylan powder was suggested as a possibility, but that has side effects too. I am truly at the end of my rope.


Personally I don't believe in keeping a dog on prescription diets. I don't think they are a great diet and I believe that a good premium dog food is better. JMO though. 

Possibly the Solid Gold is a bit too rich? I've heard similar comments from others on another board. Personally I love and trust California Natural. It's a great, simple food. My dog is pretty sensitive but does really well on CN. 

I also agree with the canned pumpkin- that can help! Honestly, I'd want to put her on a bland diet (boiled hamburger/chicken and white rice) until her poops were better and then slowly introduce a good kibble and see how it goes.Solid Gold is a great food-it may just be a bit rich for her. If no luck ... maybe back to the vet.

Good luck!!


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## PaddyD

What was the vet's problem with Prozyme? I have had good results with it.


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## nygoldengirl

*The soft stools are yellow and smelly*

I am beginning to think Bella has stetorrhea,(spelling?) a symptom of pancreatic enzyme deficiency. Her stools are very malordorous, and yellow. 
Question: Is Solid Gold Hund n Flocken adult maintenance lamb dry food too high in fat?
She is on Tylan and FortiFlora. Should she be on a pancreatic enzyme?
Is it possible the antibiotics did not cause this problem but coincidentally it just showed up when she was 8 months old?
Opinions, please! Prozyme is not really for pancreatic insufficiency, I believe.


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## jaggirl47

nygoldengirl, sent you a pm.


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