# female/female and male/female aggression?



## gardenrose (Nov 2, 2009)

I am looking into getting a GSD. I now have a intact female Newfoundland. I was asking questions on the welcome forum about if a GSD is right for us and to get a female or a male. and the topic of female/female aggression came up since I have a female already. It got me thinking... Lucy is a good dog and always has been she is very laid back. 3 of our close friends have male dogs, an Akita(sp?), Great Pyrenees, and a Lab. All of them are great dogs and very friendly, when Lucy has met each of these dogs at different times. None of them liked her. She would walk up to them happy as can be wagging her tail sniff around, the other dog would sniff then very quickly the other dog would growl and she would lay on the ground on her back and the male dog by then is growling and barking/biting at her. We have tried several attempts but the same thing always happens. On the other hand we have 2 friends with female dogs one a lab and the other a lab mix and right from the get go they get along great! When we go on walks most of the dogs we run into on a regular basis are females of different breeds and no problems, but we have on occasion run into a male and there is some slight aggression so we keep walking. Each of the 3 friends males that don't like her and the 2 females that do, were on our property when they met. By the way Lucy was NOT in heat and there were no other dogs around at the time. There is a male Newfoundland that she met more than once that has never had a problem with her but it was not on our property or anywhere near our home and my SIL has a male Lab Puppy that gets along fine but he is not quite 4 months. So what am I or Lucy doing wrong that is ticking these male dogs off? Is there such a thing as male/female aggression that males just can't get along with her in general?
just a side note: she has met way more females then males.

Thanks
Rose


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Note: Lucy is 2.5yrs


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## gardenrose (Nov 2, 2009)

Yes she is 2.5.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: gardenroseYes she is 2.5.


i just wanted to point that out since others will want to know and may not have seen your other post.

as to my personal opinion (having had f/f and m/f)... its a crap shoot trying to figure out why adult dogs act the way they do towards each other, specifically when both dogs aren't yours. the experiences that you've had do sound a bit odd and i dont know enough to try and explain it. however if you're thinking of adding a puppy or a male that is younger than Lucy - i think the chances of them living successfully together are greater than getting a female pup. females are more likely to not get along in the same household upon maturity (keeping in mind that 2.5 still may not be 'mature' for a newfie) than a male/female combo. it does and can work... but i'm generalizing.

i've had several successful f/f combos but the one that wasnt successful was bad enough for me not to try it again. my current female, was a silly and submissive as they come, until the day i brought a dominant female pup home... they fought... and it seems that altercation woke something up within Gia and she sort of 'came into' her dominance. from that point on until Rexy was adopted, i was able to control things, but it was a HUGE sigh of relief once i didn't have to monitor those girls 24/7 and always be on guard.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Are you in contact with Lucy's breeder? you might ask if she's noticed the same with other intact females she has (or that have been placed in other homes) - I'm wondering if Lucy has higher testosterone levels (unique to her genetic line or newfies??? rather than a reflection of being an intact female) which confuses these male dogs (testosterone is released when dogs exhibit aggression) & so they react aggressively.

Intact males generally have higher levels of testosterone as well & neutered male dogs (which have only ever interacted with other neuters) often react aggressively ...

OR

Is she also perhaps the only 'giant' dog these other males have met? some dogs are just very size reactive ...


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

My family has a newfie, we got her when I was in high school - she is old now and remained my parents' dog when I moved out. I used to take her to agility and obedience classes pretty frequently. She is the sweetest dog and was completely neutral to all other dogs. Unfortunately sometimes other dogs did NOT like her, I always figured it was due to the size/hair factor. They would try to go after her for no reason at all...she never instigated anything and was always very calm and neutral.
It may have just been a coincidence that the dogs that didn't like your girl are males but generally males are tolerant of females and vice versa.

My newfie was spayed at 6 months (I didn't know any better at the time but would not spay a puppy again), and her personality was always great with other dogs. She would never challenge or go after another dog regardless of gender, so she is one that I never had to worry about whether I should get a male or female as the next dog in the household.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I would have to agree with phgsd. I'll bet it has to do with size. My male always has issues with dogs that are larger than him-male female even puppy. He's pretty dominant with other dogs and it seems to really bug him that he can't get his head up higher. With big dogs he always wants to go in posturing and seems to be looking for trouble which means I have to be very proactive. 

What i thought was interesting though about this is how tolerant he is of all dogs that I bring into our pack. My younger two can be pretty rotten to him and he just takes it, never getting snarky. My female is not as tolerant of the new puppy and seems to want to "put him in his place". 

I if you add a male puppy that grows up with her you won't have any trouble.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

size could definitely be a factor - but i'm assuming both a male akita and male great pyrenees are the same if not larger than a female newfie...?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I've always only had females and always had zero issues (up to 3 at the same time).

Think what's key is knowing the dog you HAVE. If the bitch you has, shows issues with males, then don't get a male. If the bitch you have shows issues with females, don't get a female. If you have a dog with a GREAT temperment that you've trained and socialized who gets along with ALL other dogs then she won't be the problem at all.

Then the thing that is key is getting a REAL breeder who is responsible and really knows their dogs (not one that just says hand me a check and go pick your puppy). A responsible breeder KNOWS their dogs and puppies and if they are dog aggressive or tend to have issues with one sex or another. If THEY have great dogs with no issues and know it. Then you can get a pup of either sex.

Since for puppies everyone is huge, the size of your current dog is no issue and will just be accepted from day one. Heck, our puppies will have fun with a cow and your dog has to be smaller than a cow, right?


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## gardenrose (Nov 2, 2009)

Thank you for your quick responses! Yes they were larger than her and the lab is about the same height but she is wider. I guess I still will not decide on a male or female puppy until I talk to the breeder and look at the puppies.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

But aren't akitas's and Pyrs typically aloof or have to be heavily socialized when young? I think it has more to do with the breed/upbringing of the other male dogs than the male/female thing IMHO.

I would think a male puppy raised with a female would have little or no issues, while a female raised with another female could have a higher chance of issues.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think it has more to do with individual dogs vs gender.

I have had multiple males (intact) living together with no problems, I have had 2 females at times, and didn't have problems there either.

Right now I have a male, and 2 females, they all get along fine. 

I would go with temperament vs gender, but must add, I do love those doofy male gsd's )) and your newfie is very pretty))


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

I know many female/female families that get along great. At work, there is a male (6yo) and a female greyhound (3.5) - Quynne (5yo) gets along great with both dogs but even though she has known the male longer (3 years), she and the female are better friends and miss each other when apart more than than the male does.

We had a male maltese before we got Quynne and while, they were very good together for about 2.5-3 years, a dominance issue arose and they needed to be separated. There were serious fights but no major damage due to our intervention and honestly Quynne could have killed him during those confrontations if she had chosen to do so.

So I give you two personal experience with a great f-f relationship and a poor m-f relationship. Yet, I still advocate different sex pairing as I think if our maltese had been a female the result would have been fatal. 

I was a dog groomer and knew of many client F-F dog families where everyone got along great and many client M-M dog families which also got along great and only rare situations when M-F families did not get along. But, the most dangerous situations were when F-F did not get along especially when either were intact but that was not always even a factor.

Just curious .... why is the Newfoundland still intact?

You can add any combination of dog pairs to your family but I do think it is important to be aware of the difficulties that may arise.


All the best.


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