# Do you reinforce ?



## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

White Paws has gotten some dogs back lately. On the contracts it states plainly they need to enroll in ob training classes. Do you have this problem. I feel we need to enforce this and monitor more than we currently are. The possible returns can all be addressed through training. What are your thoughts and how do you handle this?


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## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

I would e-mail Washington German Shepherd Rescue.
Cara used to have a strong policy on training.

I may be wrong but I think the adopters may have to sign up prior to the adoption going through??


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

We have a problem with training in the area. Most trainers won't bother with rescue dogs, even if they don't have issues. 

Recently one of our adopted dogs was kicked out of the obedience class he was enrolled into (the adopter paid the enrollment fee) before the class started. He was a great dog, very well trained, was used as a demo dog in obedience classes in the past. The adopter (human) was rusty with obedience and wanted to enroll the dog into the basic class for a refresher and fun. The trainer did not even evaluate the dog before denying access to the class, the rescue offered to pay for the evaluation. After filing a complaint with the Better Business Buro, they were allowed back into the class. 

I tried to enroll with my fosters that had socialization or dog issues and they told me they won't accept us. I contacted 25+ trainers/places that offer classes, no luck. 

There are two places that handle GSDs, one is extremely expensive and abusive($120 for a double class which is required for a dog that has issues), the other place requires a $1500 training commitment to start with. We cannot enforce the obedience class requirement if the trainers won't accept the dogs.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

That to me is a tough thing to control. How are going to control it when there are area's like RebelGSD posted about. That would mean that either you don't do adoptions outside of a X mile radius and have the resources to physically check up on people or supply classes for them to attend.

RebelGSD, wow that sucks. When I had classes I gave discounts to rescues and kids working dogs as long as their parents came with them.

Val


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

It really sucks. 

It seems that around here trainers have enough business without dealing with challenging dogs and GSDs are challenging for many trainers. 

BTW I took my toy aggressive foster to the borderline abusive place that is so expensive. The trainer let his dog growl at me for 30 mins while we were sitting in a circle listening to him. When we tried to provoke the toy aggression in my dog, the other trainer's dog growled at my dog. Both trainers kept putting me down in front of everybody for not having my dog under control - and it was their dogs showing both people and dog aggression. This was not much help, especially not for the price, so I did not go back.

The place that kicked out one of our dogs (the really well-trained nice one that was a demo-dog) used to allow me to train my fear-aggressive foster with them with a muzzle. I can no longer go there either. I recommended it to our adopter and I thought I will die of embarrassment when they kicked her out. I was their customer for years and used to spend a lot of money on food and training there. The trainer wants to see purebred puppies from breeders. The classes are sold out a month before they begin and they always have a waitlist.

I offered to take iffy dogs to group classes with a muzzle and was told that they won't allow it because it does not "look good". 

At this point I cannot recommend a good training place to our adopters in this area. I can recommend places 70-100 miles away, but that is not feasible for most people with their work schedules. In this situation we cannot, with good conscience, make obedience training a requirement, at least not in this area.

I am seriously considering starting to give obedience classes myself.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Rebel where are you located??


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Maryland, North of Baltimore towards DE. Adopters are mainly from the Baltimore area.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

You know me because I am also affiliated with White Paws. 

We are fortunate because we have a guy that is willing to work with our aggressive dogs and not allow them to be put to death. 

However, I have mixed feelings about the requirement that people that adopt our dogs are required to attend a training class. I tend to think it is more important, that as a foster, if I have a problem with a dog I should get help. 

The most recent dog I am fostering was returned by the first foster because the dog could not be controlled. My luck was not much better, and I asked for advice. The best I got was from from the trainer that helps us. It was simply attend one of my classes at no charge, and we will go from there. The results were very positive so I move on to get the dog a permanent home.

However, some of the dogs I have served as a rescue for have already had training. And some of the people that have adopted my foster dogs are just great with them. The guy that helped me with my current rescue, was very tough on the dog. In some cases, such as the one I adopted, I would not allow that type of training.

The bottom line is when it comes to people that foster rescue dogs, I think the most important thing is for us fosters, along with our dogs get the training.

As you know the guy I mentioned is offering a seminar for our group this coming Saturday. I hope all fosters will attend, especially those that have had problems with the dog or dogs they volunteered to foster. It will save us $$$ and allow quicker adoptions.

Remember Hogan, which I asked you to hold. A pup and a wonderful dog, but if I was better at training he would not have pulled folks all over the Washington County lot.

Still learning, but it has been fun.


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## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

Thats what I mean. Train the owner who now has the dog. They are the ones who need to know how to handle a gsd properly.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I agree 100 percent and we are lucky we have a trainer that can deal with the aggressive ones. 

I really think the key to getting our dogs adopted is the foster's, and how they deal with a new dog in their home.

The subsequent classes are nice, but as fosters let us help the dogs get to a point in which they can be adopted.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I agree: by the time of the adoptions my fosters are relatively easy to manage. The returns happen because of the bad attitude of the owners.
If they are not willing to bother training the dog, forcing them into an obedience class usually won't change the attitude. On the other hand, requiring them to sign up for the class before adoption may discourage people with a bad attitude sooner rather than later, which is a good thing.


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## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

GSD's are such a smart group of doggies. The owner has to be one step ahead of them. Thats why they need the training.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

It's not just the training, it's the bond that comes from training.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANIt's not just the training, it's the bond that comes from training.


I speak as adopter. I agree 100% with Jean. I got Phoenix and was not able to get into my obedience class of choice until 5 months after getting Phoenix. While I loved him to death during those first 5 months, it wasn't until during and after our obedience training that we truly bonded. It was working together for the same goal that got him to fully bond with me and I with him. Trust me, we weren't at the top of the class, but we both learned a lot about each other. Since that time, we have repeated obedience 1 (AT the top fo the class) and will be continuing onto obedience 2 in a couple of weeks. I love the training facility we go to because that's where I was introduced to the Volhard training method. For Phoenix and I, it works wonderfully!


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## AndreaG (Mar 3, 2006)

Would Rockville be too far from you? Dog Sense sure takes rescue GSDs.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestion. I am aware of training places that work with rescue dogs in DC and in Fredrick. Geographically it is 80-90 miles, however it is on the Baltimore and DC beltways, which may take 2-3 hours one way in rush hour/after work traffic. I don't think the average adopters can handle it, especially those with children.


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## AndreaG (Mar 3, 2006)

Sorry. Yes you are right, the traffic around here is though.
So... are you starting your own OB class soon?


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I always offer help to people who adopt from us, even though I don't have formal titles, I seem to be able to help better than the trainers they contact. I probably have more experience with difficult dogs in my home than many trainers - with all the fostering I have done.

My idea was to give a short course at my local shelter to help people with newly adopted dogs and hopefully reduce the number of returns. I could have the proceeds go to the shelter for the dogs.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

With one exception I could not agree with you more. I did foster one rescue that had been previously fostered and hen left with a helpful trainer who suggested I take her. She was an aggressive disaster until I went back to the trainer for help, no charge on his end. 

The dog, in my opinion is now ready for adoption. 

Your idea about helping people that adopt dogs is great, and because you know the dog would likely be more helpful then exposing an animal to a formal course. Futhermore, I hope you get to make the yes or no call on people that want to adopt. With my present GSD that is a must.


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

> Quote: exposing an animal to a formal course


Timber - It is such a shame that your experiences with training classes have been so negative.

I have been teaching positive classes for a long time and have seen so much good come from them.

We have rescues, welfare leagues and kill shelters in our area and we get dogs from all of them. Class isn't just about the dog - it is helping the handler relate to this particular dog, so training will be more effective.

The difference between some of these dogs on day 1 to the final night of class can be dramatic. They often just need for the handler to have knowledge, consistency and fairness while training.

Our rescues often go on to more classes, compete in agility or obedience or become therapy dogs.

I can't answer what you should do about reinforcing your rescue groups rules. But please don't use that issue to turn people from training.

We trainers are not all bad







and we certainly care about the dogs. We often stay after class to work one on one with the owner to ensure they get what they need so the dog stays in a good and loving home.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Bonnie,

please read my comments again. I needed help with an aggressive rescue and if it was not for the trainer, this dog would have likely been put to death. His help was invaluable. I sought another trainer for help with my overly aggressive dog, named Timber. And her advice was very helpful. However, another trainer about ruined my son's lab, who finished second in the world Triathlon Championships a few weeks ago.

So my feelings are mixed, but my current rescue dog is much improved due to help from a trainer I have a lot of respect for.

If you are from the Midwest, and want to know the names of the good and bad send me a personal E Mail. 

I tend to get in trouble on this baord for being to direct.


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