# Minnesota/upper Midwest - recommendations?



## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm in the Twin Cities metro and would prefer to stick to a radius of about two hours.

I would prefer not German working lines given that from what I've found in my research, they are...a lot of dog. I'm interested in a relatively even keeled dog who is alert and intelligent but not so driven that it is too much for a first time GSD owner. I'm open to learning more, though. From what I've heard there is quite the divide between fanciers of American show lines vs German working lines.

I've found one breeder with whom I'm immensely impressed but feel I should be cautious and check others.

Thank you in advance!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Biggest thing is to keep up with what you are doing... RESEARCH! And you may have to widen the area of your search. Best breeders don't have that many litters a year.

Make sure you really get thru --> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html as well as ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...nk-how-tell-good-breeder-website-bad-one.html

Good luck!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks, MaggieRoseLee!

I checked out the table comparing characteristics of the various types. The one I like lines up between a reputable hobby and experienced breeder. I got extensive information from her with all the background instruction I needed to understand it, with offers of more to come if I continued the process.

A lot of the others I'm finding seem to have a lot of dogs and a lot of puppies, and that did send up a red flag (others went up when I went to check out their dogs on the OFA site and there were all kinds of unsatisfactory hip and joint ratings).

I'll get through the rest of your links, they look like great information.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

don't spend too much time on tables and, they're mostly junk anyway. There are so many "breeders" that have only 1 or 2 litters per year and look perfect according to some chart and their dogs are atrocious, at least I think so  Some of the best breeders to ever pair GSD's have 10 or litters per year. 

Just because they're in a database with some unfavorable ratings doesn't mean a lot either. It could mean all their dogs have problems, it could mean they've produced a lot of dogs and insist on checking them all so they have a number that show up with unfavorable ratings.

On the flip side, some just don't ever register their dogs, especially the ones that don't pass. Being in there or not in there by itself doesn't mean a lot. 

and yes, though you must buy from a breeder you feel comfortable with supporting, you're not buying the breeder, you're buying a dog or puppy. Go see the dogs, over and over and over, go see dogs, go see lots of them, spend the next year going to do things with dogs. Then you'll have some idea of what you're looking for. Until then, it's just words on the internet.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

crackem said:


> don't spend too much time on tables and, they're mostly junk anyway. There are so many "breeders" that have only 1 or 2 litters per year and look perfect according to some chart and their dogs are atrocious, at least I think so  Some of the best breeders to ever pair GSD's have 10 or litters per year.


 I would refute the claim that tables are "junk." I would certainly be foolish to rely solely on a table, you are correct, but a comprehensive and concise table like this one is a tool I find very useful. If "my" breeder hit any of the characteristics of a backyard or puppy mill, then I'd probably want to look a little more closely and think twice. Because "my" breeder hits mostly items on the experienced reputable end with a few in the reputable hobby column, I can look at that not as a clincher but as additional corroborating evidence that I've found a good one.



crackem said:


> Just because they're in a database with some unfavorable ratings doesn't mean a lot either. It could mean all their dogs have problems, it could mean they've produced a lot of dogs and insist on checking them all so they have a number that show up with unfavorable ratings.


 I would say it's quite meaningful when the poor ratings are showing up in the dams and sires utilized by these breeding programs AND when said dams and sires have significant numbers of dogs in their pedigrees with unfavorable ratings.



crackem said:


> and yes, though you must buy from a breeder you feel comfortable with supporting, you're not buying the breeder, you're buying a dog or puppy. Go see the dogs, over and over and over, go see dogs, go see lots of them, spend the next year going to do things with dogs. Then you'll have some idea of what you're looking for. Until then, it's just words on the internet.


 I would imagine different people have different philosophies regarding dogs and breeders, but mine is that I am also buying the breeder. I'm buying a puppy - but also the puppy's background and history, and the breeder as a resource for the rest of the puppy's life.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

Look up Alta Tollhaus, Julie is wonderful and you could always check her blog, that's where a lot of the owners post about their dogs from her.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> And you may have to widen the area of your search. Best breeders don't have that many litters a year.


My big concern with this is that I hope to keep it to a breeder I can visit without needing to fly to them. A four-hour radius would be doable. I know breeders will ship puppies, but my comfort level falls more on the end of being able to visit with the breeder(s) I'm considering before deciding on one, and to be able to pick up the puppy in person. I know you're right, though.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Josie/Zeus said:


> Look up Alta Tollhaus, Julie is wonderful and you could always check her blog, that's where a lot of the owners post about their dogs from her.


Thanks! I'm looking at her site. Her location is not ideal - she's 600 miles from me - but her site looks good.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Would it have to be a puppy? A friend of mine has a 2 year old white GSD from her breeding that she's looking to place. She'd be a great dog for someone looking for a companion/pet or a dog to start out in UKC showing with.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Josie/Zeus said:


> Look up Alta Tollhaus, Julie is wonderful and you could always check her blog, that's where a lot of the owners post about their dogs from her.


Agree with Josie!
Julie has lovely dogs with lovely temperaments!
If you want to be a part of a "GSD Family".....this is the place!  
Check out Julie's blog! I think there is a litter due in November-ish.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Rei said:


> Would it have to be a puppy? A friend of mine has a 2 year old white GSD from her breeding that she's looking to place. She'd be a great dog for someone looking for a companion/pet or a dog to start out in UKC showing with.


I'd be potentially interested if I had any prayer of selling the idea of an adult GSD.

I just about fell over when my husband told me he was on board with a GSD at all. But it does have to be a puppy. He is absolutely convinced that an adult dog would eat his cat. An 8 lb cat will not fit comfortably inside an eight week old puppy, so that's safer. ; )

Plus if it comes in early it will be more likely to learn the one cat is boss (and the other two are not toys).


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

WateryTart said:


> I'd be potentially interested if I had any prayer of selling the idea of an adult GSD.
> 
> I just about fell over when my husband told me he was on board with a GSD at all. But it does have to be a puppy. He is absolutely convinced that an adult dog would eat his cat. *An 8 lb cat will not fit comfortably inside an eight week old puppy, so that's safer.* ; )
> 
> Plus if it comes in early it will be more likely to learn the one cat is boss (and the other two are not toys).


LOL! Good thinking, and probably true, although it won't be for lack of trying on the puppy's part :wild:

Although, the 2 year old I mentioned has actually been born and raised with at least one cat so that shouldn't be an issue. But I do know how it is when you just want it to be a puppy - I like adult GSDs infinitely more than I like puppy GSDs, but I will probably always want a puppy. Just a preference thing, no big deal. 

Best of luck on your breeder search! Unfortunately there just aren't that many great breeders in your area. Two of the good ones I can think of are working lines, and any others that I can think of won't be expecting a litter again for a long while. If I do see think of someone, I'll post here and let you know!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

More for general purposes given that I PMed Rei - but timing isn't an issue. I can wait. In fact, I would wait a minimum of six months from now. A year out, even, is fine.

As to the puppy thing, I think I will like the adult dog better than the puppy, but I'm willing to put in the time and effort to raise it into a dog that will not eat the cat.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Just to update: Thank you for the nice PMs and good tips! I appreciate that people are so willing to be helpful - this seems like such a nice group. 

I have chosen a breeder and put a deposit down on a puppy. After reading up on the different lines (here and elsewhere) and talking to breeders, I've decided the American show line will be a good fit for me, and I'm very impressed with the knowledge and professionalism of my chosen breeder. The dogs are bred to pretty much exactly what I was looking for, so I feel pretty happy to have that squared away.

It will be a looooooong time before I have a puppy so I'll just keep hanging out and reading to learn all I can. Thank you again!


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