# Shocked



## RavenSophi (Feb 23, 2009)

Hi all, 

I haven't been here in a while but this was the first place I thought of when I realised I need help. 

Ever since I got Blake I have been for lack of a better word .... fanatical, when it comes to GSDs in general and specifically in keeping the breed true to the standard. I realize that some people might not agree and feel that adapting the breed will bring out other 'better' qualities or the likes. I'm not here to debate that today. 

I need to find out if it would do me any good to lodge a complaint against a WUSV affiliated club/federation or if I would just be wasting my time. To put matters into perspective for you let me explain why. I will leave out names of people and of dogs. 

A lady was selling a 6-7 month old pup from a well known and admired bloodline in our country. A two times Sieger. I didn't see the pup or the father IRL but I did see pictures of both and was amazed at the correctness of the pup's sire and all in all his whole pedigree. The decision was made to buy the pup. The day I went to pick it up I wasn't 100% sold and found that the photo was a little misleading but was willing to take the chance and was happy to own a dog with such a pedigree. We took the pup home and a few days later went to a show where we could finally see his famous sire. It was shocking. He was atleast 10cm higher than the BS, barrel chested, wrong hair texture and lenght. Again, this dog was a two time Sieger. 
I then did some research to see if he might have been entered into previous INTERNATIONAL Sieger shows and was again shocked. Our country's two time Sieger got a U at the international show.
After that I went to a few shows to have a look at the GSDs that win. Not only are they too big, they are too bulky and they have the wrong hair. Most of the ones that won or came second or third should have been disqualified immediately if you go by the BS. 
Of the ones that look like the BS says a GSD should look NONE got a place. They weren't even given a second glance. 

Now I want to know. Shouldn't something be done? Can something be done? Anyone else have experience in something similar? 

Thank you.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm kind of confused as to what you'd like to lodge a complaint about? This isn't anything new and BS like this in the "show" world has been going on for a long time. To a lot of people, Sieger shows are a bit of a joke.

Chalk it up to something you should have researched a little more and not gone by a Sieger show title when those have been viewed as a bit corrupt (some would argue something else, but from what I've seen that's what I see it as) for awhile now.

I don't really see how you were misled in any way...


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## RavenSophi (Feb 23, 2009)

The point is not that I was misled. The problem is that the GSD as a dog is getting bigger and bigger. The problem is that the WUSV on it's website self say that it is there to preserve the GSD. Why have a breed standard at all if it's ok to not follow it and let dogs 10cm too big or with hair to long or structural faults and messy gates win? I can then just as well take a GSD x Dobermann to a WUSV show and win.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I imagine that the way to effectively change this would be to join the breed club in your country, seek to connect with other members who seem to share your concerns and collectively work together on the issue.
Hair "too long" here (in USA) isn't a disqualification or perhaps it is just that "too long" that is regarded as a serious fault may be regarded as "way too long" by some.


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## RavenSophi (Feb 23, 2009)

Problem is that it's one big corrupt bucked of beans unfortunately. I'm beyond the point of trying to join the club and find like minded people. I'm starting to doubt there are any.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

If you just want to complain, it doesn't much matter how you do it. Think about if it will make you feel good to do it, then go ahead.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

It is easy to complain - much harder to do something constructive.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I have a west German show line dog and I show him WDA and UKC. He's "type-y" in that he has a lot of black, is very red, has the right coat, and has a nice west German pedigree, but he's smallish (normal to me, but maturing slowly so he is smaller than many dogs younger than him and still has a puppy look), doesn't have extreme angulation or that sunken looking croup, or the extreme roached back. But *I* like him and *I* think he fits the standard as well as any other so I show him. He actually does well at club and regional shows. At the Sieger shows there's no chance, even if he was a cookie cutter like the top winning dogs he's not from a kennel with all the money and power to heavily campaign the dog. So like middle is saying, complaining doesn't really change much even if the complaints are valid. Boycott judges and events that are being unethical and enter dogs that you truly feel are winners.

I will say that the past several shows I've been to, the judges have been VERY particular about the size and condition of the dogs. The dogs that were heavy or too large were definitely called out during their critique. My dog showed in the 12-18 month class when he was 13 months. I thought he was going to look so scrawny and place last because he is even smaller than other dogs his age, let alone being several months younger. But, he did really well and his placement was really determined by lack of ring training compared to the other dogs (let's just say I'd rather be working Schutzhund than ring training!) and the judge made no comments about him being too small. On the contrary, several other dogs were criticized for being too large or too heavy.

If I were buying a dog strictly on show rating and conformation, I'd need to see the parents first. So much can be doctored. I see pictures on the pedigree database all the time that are so obviously photoshopped (topline smoothed, color enhanced, etc). I've doctored pics of my own dogs, like removing distractions from the background, fixing glare on the eyes, erasing a white fuzzy off the black saddle, etc. It's really easy. Even with video footage you can be selective about what is show, what angles are used, etc.


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## RavenSophi (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank you for your input Liesje. I will take your advice to heart.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

What country are you in? You might want to put that in your profile so it shows up in your posts.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Welcome to the world of dog showing!









There's a standard??


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yeah not only are there different standards based on the country or venue, but the standards are not even followed!! A dog that meets the AKC standard will probably do better showing in WDA/SV.


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