# http://pandashepherds.com any info on this one.



## briant97 (Aug 31, 2009)

http://pandashepherds.com

We are looking to get a loving family pet. I cam across this breeder and she sounded wonderful. She is willing to help train the pets for obedience and start into family protection work. That is if we want to go that route. I wanted to see if anyone had any experience with this breeder or has any questions to ask. She will have pups ready in the coming months. Are there any questions I should ask her since I am new to this.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

no experience, but I guess I would have to ask, why go for a panda gsd and not a gsd?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I would go somewhere ELSE.


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## briant97 (Aug 31, 2009)

Any place in Ohio that you could recommend. Also would you be willing to go more in depth as to the reason this may not be a good choice.


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## briant97 (Aug 31, 2009)

I wasn't even aware there was a difference. I just started looking for a GSD. This was in our local paper and we gave her a call. Really nice lady and sounded like she knew what she was talking about. However I am not an expert in GSD or any dog for that matter. So I am coming to a board in hopes of finding an expert that can help me in my search. I have a 9 year old papillion that was purchased at petland. Before you bash I at least know not to go that route anymore. lol


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well, tho I am not a die hard 'standard' person, breeding for color is low in my book. Panda's are being bred for their color variation. It's a "fad" like goldendoodles.

I look for temperament and health first, while I"m certainly not saying they have bad temperaments or poor health, (I am not 'up' on that in regards to pandas), they just aren't my cup of tea.

I would ask for breeder recommendations in your area in another post, I'm sure someone has suggestions. First, KNOW what you are looking for, (you said a loving pet , good start),,do you want a high drive dog, low drive, etc.

Would you be interested in a rescue? There is a huge rescue section on this board as well.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

For one thing, their "contract" is absolutely ridiculous. (And that is just the beginning.)


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## briant97 (Aug 31, 2009)

BlackGSD: Would you be willing to help me find a good dog in the Ohio area. I would like one that is good with the family first and foremost. Second one that is loyal. Third one that would protect in my absence my family and home. We are a very active family so this new dog would be going everywhere with us. Hikes in the woods, runs on the flood walls, bike rides. When my daughter has soccer practice my wife would be taking it to run with her around the soccer fields. It would be incorporated into our daily life just like another family member.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I would look elsewhere, too.

If you do a search for "panda shepherds" on this board, you should come up with some of the past threads where we've discussed the "panda" coloration mutation, as well as this breeder, and you might find those interesting.



> Quote:She is willing to help train the pets for obedience and start into family protection work.


Do they define what they consider to be "family protection work"? If I were to look for a dog for protection or any sport such as Schutzhund, I would want to work with a breeder whose dogs are actually working and titled in those venues.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDFor one thing, their "contract" is absolutely ridiculous. (And that is just the beginning.)


Can you elaborate? I looked at it and it seems to be fairly standard.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Chicagocanine
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: BlackGSDFor one thing, their "contract" is absolutely ridiculous. (And that is just the beginning.)
> ...


I'll send you a PM. Don't want to get in trouble on the board.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: BTBlackGSD: Would you be willing to help me find a good dog in the Ohio area. I would like one that is good with the family first and foremost. Second one that is loyal. Third one that would protect in my absence my family and home. We are a very active family so this new dog would be going everywhere with us. Hikes in the woods, runs on the flood walls, bike rides. When my daughter has soccer practice my wife would be taking it to run with her around the soccer fields. It would be incorporated into our daily life just like another family member.


You should start a new post asking for breeder suggestions in Ohio. And just so you know, there are some amazing rescues in Ohio. My boy Rafi is from Cincinnati (he's a rescue) and you absolutely could not find a better dog.


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## Sigurd's Mom (May 12, 2009)

*Re: http://pandashepherds.com any info on this one*



> Originally Posted By: Chicagocanine
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: BlackGSDFor one thing, their "contract" is absolutely ridiculous. (And that is just the beginning.)
> ...


I'm wondering this too.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Chicagocanine
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: BlackGSDFor one thing, their "contract" is absolutely ridiculous. (And that is just the beginning.)
> ...


I take issue with some of the "Conditions",_ especially_... 

"The Purchaser will spay/neuter the Dog before the Dog reaches the age of 9 months"


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: http://pandashepherds.com any info on this one*



> Originally Posted By: Sigurd's Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Chicagocanine
> ...


Me three!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Chicago, I tried to send you a PM but you are "over the limit:.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

FROM THE BREEDER'S CONTRACT -


> Quote: * ** Under the terms of this Contract, Breeder has the right to investigate the care of the Puppy if circumstances warrant. If w feel the Puppy is not getting proper care and treatment, the Purchaser shall have 72 hours to return the Dog and the signed AKC registration transfer to the Breeder at his own expense. If Purchaser fails to do so, the Breeder shall have the legal right to repossess the Dog and get a signed AKC transfer application for the Purchaser without refunding any money. In addition, the Purchaser shall be liable for any expenses incurred in the process of repossession (including legal fees and court costs), and vet expenses to restore the Dog to good health if necessary. If it is not possible for the Purchaser to return the Dog and AKC registration, the Breeder will recover the greater sum of $1000. or the purchase price of the Dog, as damages for breach of Contract. The parties to this contract agree to submit to the jurisdiction of the Laws of the State of Ohio and The United States Legal System for any dispute arising out of this Contract. *


 There's a lot about the contract that bothers me, but IMHO this section takes the cake. There is no way I'd sign an open ended contract like this, even if the breeder were my own sainted mother. It's like making a bargin with the devil - she can march into a puppy buyer's home any time, any year, declare the animal is not getting "proper care and treatment" and walk off with the animal - no questions asked. "Proper care and treatment" can mean anything the breeder says it means - the dog's not getting filet mignon for dinner served by a butler in uniform, vacationing on the Riveria, or having a Swedish Massage before bed.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

What part of Ohio are you in?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Agree, Gayle. Way too much in there about how I may train, care for, house my dog, etc. If they are suspicious that someone is not a good match, then don't sell them a dog! Even though I have no plans to breed and I do keep my dogs indoors with me and feed premium food, I have no patience for breeders that want to dictate how I train, house, feed, and care for (medically) *my* dog.


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## FredD (Jul 5, 2009)

I also agree too, way to much "Say-So!" on the so-called Breeder's contract.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Back to BT- you should start researching what a good breeder is, and what you want for a dog, there are many great breeders right here on this site. Or there are suggestions for other breeders as well in past threads. You will find past threads helpful for some of the questions you may have. 
This
link
is very helpful in what to look for in a good breeder, worth reading Don't rush into anything, and I wish you luck w/ your search!


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

All I can say is why?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: jaggirl47All I can say is why?


Why, what??


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Some of the wording in that contract is draconian, however it appears to be done to protect the pups & ensure they're going to be well cared for. IF I wanted one of this breeder's pups, that contract wouldn't be a deal killer, although I might want parts of it re-worded.

The 9mo spay/neuter requirement includes the qualification, _"...(or as recommended by Purchaser’s veterinarian)..."_ Again, if I wanted one of these pups I'd discuss it with the breeder b/c my vet recommends no earlier than 12mos, & prefers 18-24mos. The breeder appears to be making a real & admirable effort to prevent accidental breedings.

Dedicated sports, training or show enthusiasts might not realize there's a special problem with some pet homes...New puppy buyers aglow with unreal expectations formulate BigPlans to show, train, compete etc. Somehow these plans never get underway or they're quickly aborted. Human boredom, inertia, neglect & abandonment can follow these lapsed aspirations. Too often innocent pets are then relegated to the backyard, eking out a miserable existence whose tedium is relieved only by fence charging, nuisance barking &/or escaping. This is why good breeders often insist pets be maintained inside as a part of the family.

Will any breeder of Pandas ever be regarded with anything but disdain & suspicion? FTR, Pandas don't resonate with me, not even a little bit. I find 'em odd looking & unattractive, rather than exotic & appealing. I don't have one. Nor do I want one, but that's a personal preference based largely on pattern & color.

IF I wanted one, I'd be investigating the health, temperament & longevity of the lines involved. Unfortunately there aren't many sources of unbiased info available. Sadly people seem to love 'em or hate 'em for equally shallow reasons.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

*Breeder recommendations in Ohio?*

First thing is to find the 'flavor' of GSD you want. A GSD isn't a GSD isn't a GSD....

http://www.eastgermanshepherd.com/type.html
and 
http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html show some of the different looks/types. 

Then matching your background and experience with dogs/GSD's with a 'responsible' breeder is the next task! A commitment for the next 15 years may be expected to take a bit of time also. What you need to learn about when locating a responsible breeder can be found on these sites...

http://www.geocities.com/petsburgh/fair/1901/chart.html

http://www.dogplay.com/Breeding/ethics.html

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/hvpup1.html

And if you can't find a responsible breeder or timing doesn't work out for a litter.................there are a TON of 100% purebred GSD adult and puppies in rescues and shelters. Many of them are in the Urgent and Rescue sections here. Some really beautiful and deserving pups need good homes.









GOOD LUCK in your search and great news you are open to getting educated about the breed.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ArycrestFROM THE BREEDER'S CONTRACT -
> 
> 
> > Quote: * ** Under the terms of this Contract, Breeder has the right to investigate the care of the Puppy if circumstances warrant. If w feel the Puppy is not getting proper care and treatment, the Purchaser shall have 72 hours to return the Dog and the signed AKC registration transfer to the Breeder at his own expense. If Purchaser fails to do so, the Breeder shall have the legal right to repossess the Dog and get a signed AKC transfer application for the Purchaser without refunding any money. In addition, the Purchaser shall be liable for any expenses incurred in the process of repossession (including legal fees and court costs), and vet expenses to restore the Dog to good health if necessary. If it is not possible for the Purchaser to return the Dog and AKC registration, the Breeder will recover the greater sum of $1000. or the purchase price of the Dog, as damages for breach of Contract. The parties to this contract agree to submit to the jurisdiction of the Laws of the State of Ohio and The United States Legal System for any dispute arising out of this Contract. *
> ...


This section is pretty standard in most of the rescue contracts I've seen. I haven't seen enough puppy contracts to say how common it is there (most of the ones I have seen just say that if the dog is to be rehomed, the breeder has the right to the dog first and that the new home must meet their approval) but most rescues/rescuers I've seen have very similar sections.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Jane, I have to ask why because with all of the health/genetic issues that already run in this breed, if someone truly cared for the true GSD, then why would they do something like this? Blue eyes alot of times in dalmations means deafness right? What about when so many people start mixing and matching something like this in the BYB world? There are so many what-ifs that all I can ask is why.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

*Breeder recommendations in Ohio?*

The person breeding the pandas did genetics testing and her dogs are all GSD. Also blue eyes do NOT always match up with issues like deafness, different genetics in different dogs. 

I also have no issues with her puppy contract, I'd rather have a strict strict one like hers that shows she cares about her dogs and her #1 concern is to keep track of them, not allow indescriminate breeding, and that she will ALWAYS tak them back........... then what other contracts (or most people that have puppies that just sell them with NO agreement).

Hopefully the Original Poster will continue to read, educate themselves, talk to breeders, and end up the the dog they've always dreamed of.


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