# Our Puppy visit



## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

It was really fun visiting with the pups! The parents were awesome! I was very impressed with the parent’s temperament. The father, Harry a Sch II dog was constantly throwing sticks at my husband’s feet and then playing keep away with him. The mother was energetic, sweet very good mamma dog and only checked out her pups when we picked them up and just after a bit when she felt the situation was under control and left them to go chase flies but if Harry tried to come in to see the pups she was in there in a flash chasing him out or if a pup cried or if they got to rough with each other she would come back an break it up. The pups were solid, not one timid one, some gun shots went off in the distance and it didn't even phase them. They could be rough housed and they would come back for more. They even carried the sticks I handed them!

Here are some pics of our visit and yes we picked one out! No name yet we just refer to her as F3.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

curious as to why you are set on this breeder? 

Spectacular Long Stock Coat German Shepherd Puppies for Sale in California


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## Andy-jr. (Mar 1, 2010)

*Sagelfn* I don't understand, are you saying he should look else where?


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

I love this one


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## AdrianVall (May 10, 2010)

Beautiful pup! Good pick for sure.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Andy-jr. said:


> *Sagelfn* I don't understand, are you saying he should look else where?


No I'm not and I'm not trying to be mean. Sorry if it sounded that way. I see things that would make me walk away from this breeder and was just wondering why the OP likes them.


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## Whitedog404 (Mar 25, 2010)

*ANDY:* Sagelfn I don't understand, are you saying he should look else where? 

*OK, I'll say it. I would look elsewhere pronto quicko. First of all, the conditions the pups and dam are living in look deplorable. The breeder didn't have a whelping box set up for her? So, she wandered around and had them in a kid's bedroom? Last time it was in the living room? For me, that's a red flag. Plus, and I'm a nit picker and certainly not a dog breeder, but I've done a fair amount of research before getting my puppy, and this Web site sucks. It doesn't offer any real information except this guy's ramblings. And the fact that he makes long coats sound like exotics is a bit much and something that might attract someone who could be naive. Yeah, run, don't walk. *


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

What is it that "Red Flags" you? You can PM me but I think most would are curious as to why you feel this way about them by just looking at their website; it also might be educational for the ones new to the breed or getting a pup soon.


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## Whitedog404 (Mar 25, 2010)

*KLCECIL:* What is it that "Red Flags" you? You can PM me but I think most would are curious as to why you feel this way about them by just looking at their website; it also might be educational for the ones new to the breed or getting a pup soon. 

*The pups are certainly cute and the dam is a pretty girl, but nothing looks clean to me and that is a big red flag. For instance, when I visited a reputable breeder in my search, I was asked to step into a little bit of bleach and water to make sure the soles of my shoes wouldn't carry anything into the whelping room, which was spotless. That may be the opposite end of the spectrum, but I appreciated that. And I realize that not all breeders are experts at producing Web sites, but I also appreciate as much information as possible on GSDs and their care, not just someone who waxes on about what, I'm not sure. It doesn't advance my knowledge base. This guy is asking a chunk of change for these dogs and I'm not so sure you're getting your money's worth. You're in California and I would think you'd have more choices. And, perhaps, you've looked at a lot of breeders and this one stands out to you. In the end, it's your choice, naturally, and I hope you end up with a wonderful pup. *


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I wouldn't buy from this breeder. I dont like what he has to say and I dont understand why he feels the need to tell people how much he paid for the female or male, whatever. If that is a kids bedroom then thats gross. The wall is falling apart and the carpet looks filthy


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

I'm sorry but I would have to agree, the area where the pups are kept is filthy!!! I would run away just by looking at these pictures, have not even looked at the web site.


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## Whitedog404 (Mar 25, 2010)

There are a lot of good breeders out there; this simply doesn't appear, from what you've shown, to be one of them.


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

Thank you for your honest opinions!

I didn't like the pictures but the pups and parents were clean and well cared for also the temperments were right up our ally. I would like suggestions to breeders that are local that you guys would recomind. I'm willing to drive a bit but no more then one state over. I will NOT ship pups in without meeting the parents unless highly highly recominded. I have looked at other breeders with the same pedigrees and they are also 2 to 3 times more which my husband does not see practical. We use to show aussies and could get a really nice show pup for $1200 - $1500. 

Thanks again


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I admit I see lots of things that would make me look elsewhere too. Honestly the biggest is that apparently the breeder lets people pick out their own pups, and at a very early stage in development long before enough personality has come forth to really evaluate.

But I also think a lot of the opinions expressed here against the breeder are a bit overboard and the breeder does appear to be better than many. Both parents are OFAed and at least one is titled, which is more than a lot of breeders do. They also have information on the parents, including pedigree, listed on the website so people can do some research on their own. And prices seem fairly consistent with what would be expected for dogs of this type of bloodline, without breed surveys, titles, etc...

What I really don't get are people referring to the pups living in filthy, deplorable conditions? What is this based on? Some photos of pups (who are clearly old enough to be outside) being outside? And that things like dirt are found outside? Anyone here with dogs have perfectly manicured, sterilized lawns? They're dogs. It's the outdoors. This might be a legitimate concern if the pups are living in a muddy mess 24/7, but no where do I see indication that is the case. Pups are old enough, weather is nice, go outside and snap some photos while there. I don't get what the big deal is.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> I admit I see lots of things that would make me look elsewhere too. Honestly the biggest is that apparently the breeder lets people pick out their own pups, and at a very early stage in development long before enough personality has come forth to really evaluate.
> 
> But I also think a lot of the opinions expressed here against the breeder are a bit overboard and the breeder does appear to be better than many. Both parents are OFAed and at least one is titled, which is more than a lot of breeders do. They also have information on the parents, including pedigree, listed on the website so people can do some research on their own. And prices seem fairly consistent with what would be expected for dogs of this type of bloodline, without breed surveys, titles, etc...
> 
> *What I really don't get are people referring to the pups living in filthy, deplorable conditions? What is this based on? Some photos of pups (who are clearly old enough to be outside) being outside? And that things like dirt are found outside? Anyone here with dogs have perfectly manicured, sterilized lawns? They're dogs. It's the outdoors. This might be a legitimate concern if the pups are living in a muddy mess 24/7, but no where do I see indication that is the case. Pups are old enough, weather is nice, go outside and snap some photos while there. I don't get what the big deal is.*


No they have pictures of them inside one of their kids bedrooms and it looks filthy in there, so it's inside not outside


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)




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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I also dont care for them telling how much they paid for their dogs, it feels like they are trying to say "Dont think the price is alot because I paid this for them and I feel that this amount is fair."

*Lastly I want to touch on price, as for some it still may be of issue. I encourage you to browse the internet and look for similar puppies. Remember, these are LONG stock coat red and black. (Many people don't ever know there is such a dog..see the German site: **http://www.lsvd-net.de/** ). **You will find prices starting about $2,500. That coupled with I paid $2000 (+$300 shipping) for the puppy's mom...and I believe that was a bargain, and the father was pick of the litter (I was breeder) that pups sold for $1,200 and then I put many thousands more into his titles*


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I really liked that this was the one place on the board that you could just post cute puppy guess it isn't that way anymore BTW cute puppy


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Also, when I was reading the site it said he has no idea of the dams drives or what this litter will produce. Based on info in the site the dam is at least 4yrs old(ofa hips and a previous litter in 2008). Certainly old enough to know what she can do. There is a link for a litter of puppies born in 2008 and lists the current parents of this litter as the same parents of that litter. So with a previous litter that is about 2 yrs old he would know what the parents produce.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

...they produce puppies ...


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## txbwj (May 2, 2010)

I have to agree with the others after looking at the website. He sounds more interested in selling a puppy than furthering the breed. When I went to look at Axl at the breeder, the place was spotless and I also had to rinse my boot soles with bleach water before I could go into the room. The whelping area was very clean and the parents were friendly with good temperament. I can't imagine someone who knows the day is approaching to whelp and there is no whelping box, and preparation for the litter. I wouldn't walk away I would run. I'd love to know what kind of questions the breeder asked you about why you wanted a GSD, the living conditions for the puppy, what you were actually looking for...working dog, show dog, family companion, etc...I happily answered questions for like an hour before even seeing the litter. Just my humble opinion.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Just an idea, that dirt and wall damage were probably caused by the dogs. I know I have a hard time keeping up with the mess my 3 dogs make, I can't imagine having more. Sure, it would have helped if the breeder took staged photos so you didn't see the dirt. Some people just don't make good websites, either. 

The OP visited and was satisified with the condition of the animals and the temperament of the pups. And from what I've seen of GSD prices, those look reasonable. 

But, would I go to this breeder after seeing that web site? No way. Sorry.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Unless I read her certified pedigree wrong (and that is entirely possible), the dam is not yet 3 years old (whelped on 8/21/07). Am I reading that right?

http://www.osapuppies2010.com/Pictures/OsaPedigreeWeb.jpg


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## txbwj (May 2, 2010)

I think you're right GSDRaven that looks like the right date, little over two years old. I too agree with Blackpuppy it's hard to keep up with the 2 I have and some people just don't make good websites, and the puppies really are cute.


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

holland said:


> I really liked that this was the one place on the board that you could just post cute puppy guess it isn't that way anymore BTW cute puppy


Thank you!


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## Whitedog404 (Mar 25, 2010)

Originally Posted by *holland*  
_I really liked that this was the one place on the board that you could just post cute puppy guess it isn't that way anymore BTW cute puppy_
_*KLCecil:* Thank you!_ 

*KL, did you not come back to the board and ask why we thought as we did about this breeder? Sure, the pups in the photos are cute, what pup isn't? But, since you asked about the breeder, you got our opinions, such as they are. You're not obligated to do anything about it and can pick up your puppy when it's ready to go. However, some of us are simply saying that we would not. I have no doubt that you'll give any dog a wonderful home, and these puppies deserve nice homes, naturally. *


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

Osa was bred accidently in 08' Harry had actually ripped a hole in the kennel while they were away.
They had her with them at their vine yard (where I met them) when she had her pups. Since the guys job requires him in two areas he brings them with him, I will admit the house is very old (as you can see in the pictures) but this in not a reason to conclude that he is a bad breeder. He really cares for his dogs and looks to them as his dogs not for strictly breeding purposes. He did wait two years before breeding her again and had their health clearances done.
I don't like that I posted some cute pics of the pups, happy that I was getting one and then people begin to rip on the breeder.....I have met the breeder, the parents, the pups and I like them and am happy with my decision.
I am aware of the "clean" breeder as I was one (when I showed Aussies, I had one litter and everything was spotless), I also worked for one for four years. 
There was absolutely nothing wrong with how he presents his pups, I will agree that he himself seems new but at least he means well.
I was there for over two hours talking with him asking him questions along with him asking us.
He was satisfied and so was I.


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

Whitedog404 said:


> Originally Posted by *holland*
> _I really liked that this was the one place on the board that you could just post cute puppy guess it isn't that way anymore BTW cute puppy_
> _*KLCecil:* Thank you!_
> 
> *KL, did you not come back to the board and ask why we thought as we did about this breeder? Sure, the pups in the photos are cute, what pup isn't? But, since you asked about the breeder, you got our opinions, such as they are. You're not obligated to do anything about it and can pick up your puppy when it's ready to go. However, some of us are simply saying that we would not. I have no doubt that you'll give any dog a wonderful home, and these puppies deserve nice homes, naturally. *


I do appreciate everyone’s opinions but only when asked for......people’s opinions started before I asked for them and this is where I get frustrated with forums.
Once asked I have no qualms.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

KLCecil said:


> Osa was bred accidently in 08' Harry had actually ripped a hole in the kennel while they were away.
> They had her with them at their vine yard (where I met them) when she had her pups. Since the guys job requires him in two areas he brings them with him, I will admit the house is very old (as you can see in the pictures) but this in not a reason to conclude that he is a bad breeder. He really cares for his dogs and looks to them as his dogs not for strictly breeding purposes. He did wait two years before breeding her again and had their health clearances done.
> I don't like that I posted some cute pics of the pups, happy that I was getting one and then people begin to rip on the breeder.....I have met the breeder, the parents, the pups and I like them and am happy with my decision.
> I am aware of the "clean" breeder as I was one (when I showed Aussies, I had one litter and everything was spotless), I also worked for one for four years.
> ...


I am happy you found a puppy you want, *all* puppies are cute wether they are from a puppymill, byb, new breeder or a great breeder. I got my boy from a byb, didn't know or care at the time, I love him to death but if I had that choice again I wouldn't have gone the same route I did. When you dont go through good breeders the chances of getting a puppy with health issues is greater. We give advice on if the breeder is a good choice or not and if *we* would get a puppy from them. So if thats where you want to get your puppy from then congrats to you and I hope you enjoy your puppy.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Looks filthy to me, too!


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## Gsdldy (May 7, 2010)

Wow people are harsh here lol. I just wanted to say I took a look at the web site and for those saying they dont have a welping box, they did have one set up but Osa decided to have the puppies elsewhere. There is even a picture of it on their site.

Harry and Osa's Puppies


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## mass18th (Jun 26, 2010)

KLCecil said:


> I don't like that I posted some cute pics of the pups, happy that I was getting one and then people begin to rip on the breeder.....


Have to say that as a new member, seeing how you were just treated, certainly does not give me any reason to want to participate in the forums. I didn't think it was that kind of forum at all...


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## Shadow's mum (Mar 13, 2010)

These pups look beautiful! Conditions don't look great, but the dogs look to be well loved and in good health. I'm no expert, I just love my dogs.


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## Dawn (Jun 23, 2010)

that was the first thing I noticed. 
Just does not look like a clean enviroment!!
Beware...allll puppies are cute...


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

I've just been observing this thread and have been biting my tongue until now. I don't think anyone who stated their opinion in this thread was attacking the OP. I know the OP didn't ask for anyone's opinion, but the board is here for that and open for discussion. It's not as if people started making comments in the thread saying, "What the heck are you thinking? You're stupid for wanting to get a puppy from this breeder". Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, including the OP, and ultimately if they feel this is where they'd like to get their puppy, no one is going to stop them. I hope that no one who just joined is deterred from this forum because of this thread as this place is full of knowledgeable people who care, and the responses were rooted in just that, concern for someone looking to buy a puppy. Everyone needs to calm down and respect everyone else, understand that others may not share your view, and move on.


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## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

WOW, its dirt so yes it is "dirty" lol. I don't really see a problem with DIRT.Yes my yard has grass but not everyone's does in all areas we do have 1 big dirt pile that my dogs dig in guess my yard is DIRTY also. I also have a hole in my wall and no my dogs didn't do it but my kids did, didn't know having dirt and holes made it bad living condition. I really wouldn't say I would or wouldn't buy from the breeder (no idea about them. But I would much rather buy from someone that has a hole in the wall and dirt in the yard than someone who thinks that makes it a bad environment. Anyway good luck on your puppy search and if you decide to get 1 of those they are really cute, and cant wait to see more pics


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I also don't think anyone was attacking the OP,,the breeder maybe.

I'll throw in my 2cents,,KL, if you like the male/female, like this guy, like the puppies, I say go for it. As Chris said, there are worse out there. 

You are the one who is going to live with this puppy, no one here, if it's what you want, and you have a good feeling about it,,don't let anyone rain on your parade.)

Melina above makes alot of good points

Heck I almost came home with a gsd bred by the Amish last week, I woulda if the kid would have sold him to me, and I admit it..

Go with your gut, and congratulations on your new puppy


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## mass18th (Jun 26, 2010)

Melina since I was the only one who said I wasn't sure about wanting to post in the future, I guess you are talking to me. 

You are right, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, including myself. 

As we have recently seen in the religion threads, everyone should be able to state them and not feel like they are going to be called out and told to calm down (unless its politics ). That being said my opinion continues to be that this thread was to show off our furry friends, not to be told about the breeder (which has many other threads) - which even after the OP said twice they had a really good visit - folks are commenting on the breeder. The OP didn't even show off the web site, some other poster did - from a thread where the OP had asked everyone's opinion...


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I agree with that-she didn't ask for people's opinions.


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

mass18th said:


> Melina since I was the only one who said I wasn't sure about wanting to post in the future, I guess you are talking to me.
> 
> You are right, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, including myself.
> 
> As we have recently seen in the religion threads, everyone should be able to state them and not feel like they are going to be called out and told to calm down (unless its politics ). That being said my opinion continues to be that this thread was to show off our furry friends, not to be told about the breeder (which has many other threads) - which even after the OP said twice they had a really good visit - folks are commenting on the breeder. The OP didn't even show off the web site, some other poster did - from a thread where the OP had asked everyone's opinion...


I completely understand what you're saying, I'm sure the OP's intent in making this thread was to show off some pictures of the pups, not get a bunch of responses offering their opinion on a breeder, especially when someone else posted a link. When I said "calm down", I meant it sort of as a, "please don't think we are the kind of people who just attack others left and right".  We really don't! Heck, I myself, didn't even state an opinion on the breeder in this thread, and I won't. I just don't want you to run off based on what you've seen in this one thread. All I was trying to say is that this place is filled with information and people who truly care, give us a chance, please.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

Whitedog404 said:


> *ANDY:* Sagelfn I don't understand, are you saying he should look else where?
> 
> *OK, I'll say it. I would look elsewhere pronto quicko. First of all, the conditions the pups and dam are living in look deplorable. The breeder didn't have a whelping box set up for her? So, she wandered around and had them in a kid's bedroom? Last time it was in the living room? For me, that's a red flag. Plus, and I'm a nit picker and certainly not a dog breeder, but I've done a fair amount of research before getting my puppy, and this Web site sucks. It doesn't offer any real information except this guy's ramblings. And the fact that he makes long coats sound like exotics is a bit much and something that might attract someone who could be naive. Yeah, run, don't walk. *


* My first German Shepherd was a sable from a breeder who kept his dogs locked up in kennels. I thought it was terrible and I still do to this day, NO CRATES or kennels for me, EVER. Anyway I bought a puppy no one wanted and he was gonna put it down. It turned out to be a fantastic dog. Tony the dog I have now no one wanted because he only has 3 toes and he has turned out to be a great dog. Before you start bad mouthing breeders who don't have perfect conditions you should make sure these dogs aren't a perfect fit for someone else. It really gets my goat when you people think you know everything because of a few pictures. I HAVE BOUGHT FORM BACKYARD BREEDERS EVERY TIME I HAVE BOUGHT DOGS AND ALL 6 HAVE TURNED OUT TO BE GREAT DOGS.. Good god, a little dirt SO WHAT. Where do you think wild dogs have their pups?? In dirty ole caves SO WHAT. MY DOG LOVES GETTING DIRTY AND MUDDY, WHO CARES, A LITTLE DIRT NEVER HURT ANYONE AS LONG AS IT IS CLEAN DIRT..
*


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## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

3ToesTonyismydog said:


> *It really gets my goat when you people think you know everything because of a few pictures. I HAVE BOUGHT FORM BACKYARD BREEDERS EVERY TIME I HAVE BOUGHT DOGS AND ALL 6 HAVE TURNED OUT TO BE GREAT DOGS..
> *


I guess that is up to you if you choose to support a BYB, but most people on this forum would rather support a rescue before a backyard breeder. (I'm not commenting on this breeder specifically)

And I don't believe most people think a BYB dog is destined to be unhealthy, poor temperament or anything else. An ethical breeder stacks the odds of mother nature in the buyers favor and it also supports someone who wants to BETTER THE BREED.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Right, it is about _*not *_giving a BYB more $ or $$. 

The BYB's need to step up and do right by what they are breeding. 
I am not commenting on this breeder, either.
I just read an article in my local paper that MI pet stores are taking a stand against selling dogs, they are supporting rescue/shelters instead.
2 to 4 million puppies are sold thru pet shops from millers annually! That is a staggering amount. 
I bet the BYB's stats are just as high but harder to trace.


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

I don't intend to say anything after this:

How about we shift focus back in this thread, for the OP's sake, as they posted pictures for a reason and I'm sure were hoping for comments on that, and only that, not on breeders. If everyone wants to have a discussion on who they consider to be reputable breeders, BYB's, etc., there's a whole other section for that and threads can be made, discussions can be had.


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## mass18th (Jun 26, 2010)

I agree and will help out by saying the puppy is adorable and hope mine ends up looking that good!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

as someone in this thread posted before, all pups are adorable. Doesn't make it a good reason to buy!


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## mass18th (Jun 26, 2010)

as someone posted earlier in the thread "How about we shift focus back in this thread, for the OP's sake, as they posted pictures for a reason and I'm sure were hoping for comments on that, and only that, not on breeders."


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

This question is from the OP, so I don't think the previous posts are off the topic at all as the OP asked it to be answered!



KLCecil said:


> _What is it that "Red Flags" you? You can PM me but I think most would are curious as to why you feel this way about them by just looking at their website; it also might be educational for the ones new to the breed or getting a pup soon_.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

KLCecil said:


> I do appreciate everyone’s opinions but only when asked for......people’s opinions started before I asked for them and this is where I get frustrated with forums.
> Once asked I have no qualms.


I would guess that once you post, then you will receive opinions - just read them and do what you think is best. Folks are generally just trying to help!


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