# Schutzhund: Why?



## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

So Shasta is a very high energy, unfocused, noisy and mouthy puppy. My husband thinks she would enjoy training for schutzhund. I know for sure it's not something I would be particularly interested in doing, but if we start, I know who'll be putting in the time/driving/training or whatever.

I'm wondering how schutzhund might benefit her, or if she would even be suitable for training...I would certainly not ever be interested in going to trials.

As far as her mouthiness goes, would the training affect that? Make it worse? Better? What kind of a time commitment are we talking about?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Shasta would probably be interested in anything you care to do with her. If you're more interested in obedience, rally, agility, dock diving, search and rescue, etc. . . she'd probably be thrilled with that. 

I don't do Schutzhund, but I know people who do and it seem to take a lot of commitment on the part of the owner/handler. Sounds like you're not so into it, so do what you like!


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm looking for feedback so that I have something to tell my husband when he wants to talk about it.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

If you are not interested, don't do it. (not to mention a club might not have you if you are not invested.)

For me, training my dogs is like peeling an onion and seeing the different layers.... but also like building a house. I learn so much about my dog, and my dog becomes something bigger (and hopefully better) the more we train.

But you can get joy from basic obedience, agility, tracking or any other thing I would guess. 

Have fun!

I am interested in WHY you are not interested?


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Where Schutzhund is particularly helpful for puppy mouthiness is the handler learning how to seamlessly redirect the puppy from the hand/shirt/pantleg to a tug. 

Schutzhund is a lot of fun for any GSD, regardless of ability. The trick is finding a club that will accommodate every dog, and find ways for the dog to enjoy the sport. Every dog can get a BH, and even if they don't excel in bitework, continue on to title in tracking or obedience alone, if they're strong in those areas. 

There *are* clubs out there that are more "pet" friendly, and not just focused on high octane competition.

Joining a club has the added benefit of being around other GSD owners who can appreciate living with a high drive, mouthy puppy. The help and support you get can often be invaluable.

And, at the end of the day, you have a tired puppy.

My advice would be to find a club near you, and go visit a couple of times without your dog. Watch them train, and get an idea of what the total sport of Schutzhund looks like. If you decide Schutzhund isn't a good fit for you and your family, more than likely, they'll be able to hook you up with other venues like herding, agility, etc.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

paulag1955 said:


> I'm looking for feedback so that I have something to tell my husband when he wants to talk about it.


Ah.  In that case, I can only tell you what I would do. I'd tell him that if he's so hyped up on Schutzhund, he can do it himself.  From what I've been told, when you do Schutz., you don't really have much of a life besides dog training, work, and family.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

gagsd said:


> I am interested in WHY you are not interested?


I don't think I "get" it. Training your dog to attack the sleeve seems like a bad idea to me.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

It isn't just about "attacking the sleeve". There are 3 phases to Schutzhund; tracking, obedience, and protection. I am training my 6 month old pup. Well, actually, she and the members are training me.  I really enjoy the time I am at the club. I bond with my pup and get to talk to other adults who have similar interests.
Another thing is just keeping the pup busy. Mine will keep going and going all day. Find something you want to do with the pup to make it fun all around.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Is training a dog to bite a ball a bad idea? Because in the dog's mind, there's really no difference. It's a game. 

If the idea turns you off that much, then I think you just need to explain that to your husband and be done with it. 

As far as the sport goes, it's just a sport. The dogs are playing an elaborate game, with many rules.

All dogs can bite. Have teeth? It can bite.
The difference is, Schutzhund dogs know what they can, and cannot bite, and learn to stop on command.
The stopping on command is especially nice for the mouthy dog that doesn't want to let go of your pantleg.

They're also tracking, something that satisfies an intense need that this breed has, and performing obedience, something all dogs should learn.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Vicious dog attacks sleeve:


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Kendra, where do you go to train?


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

SchDDR said:


> Vicious dog attacks sleeve:


LOL! I love this photo!


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Twin County Schutzhund Club. I love the club I go to. They are very open to training newbies (like me).


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

That grip must have been the result of poor sleeve presentation


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

That's my son and our helper at our family day this summer.
If you liked the pic, you'll like this even more:






Ignore the weird McChord AFB location. We were in Puyallup. For some reason, Steve Jobs thinks Puyallup is on McChord. Something tells me Bill Gates wouldn't make that mistake.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

That is great! Your son is so cute, I can hardly stand it!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I can't tell you why YOU would do it or not do it. I can only say why I do it. Number one: it's fun for me and my dog. Beyond that, I like Mary's onion example. I need to know how my dog works and thinks, what is his balance of drives, how high or low is his threshold level, etc. I do some other protection work with my dog, not just Schutzhund, so maybe I take it more seriously (for example my dog would never do bitework with a child as a helper as in the photo, for one thing likely my dog would not engage with a small child b/c he cannot bring the same presence/threat). For us it is not a game, it's not tugging on a sleeve. It strengthens my training and it builds my dog's character. I think we have a better bond and better trust in each other because of it. I also do conformation, obedience, rally, herding, dock diving, and agility with the same dogs and will possibly be starting flyball.

Does it help with mouthiness? I don't know. Ironically my two Schutzhund dogs have never been mouthy, at least not to me, but I generally seek out a dog with a higher threshold, less prey drive (at least as far as protection work goes) and more defense. My dogs are not the type to obsessively chase things down or nip at anything that moves, but many GSD puppies are and in some ways there are advantages.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My dog that I am training in SchH isn't mouthy either. Never has been. He always has a ball or toy with him, however!
I think you should visit a club and bring your husband along. Then he can decide if it is something that he wants to pursue. As posted above, the commitment level should be there regardless. I don't know of many clubs that do it just for fun without trialing as a goal. Clubs are far and few between in most areas, so those that do go are fairly commited.
Maybe agility would be a better fit...just getting Shasta out will help with the energy release!
Many dogs don't have the temperament for SchH training so that is something to consider as well.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Personally, I like to have control of my dog and when and how he uses his/her mouth. My husband has been involved in Schutzhund since 1980, me since 1994. We train professionally as well, Schutzhund is what we do in our off time. My husband likes to tell people that in all the years we've been training as a business (all breeds for families, not just working dogs) he's never once been bitten by a dog trained in bitework, not so for the "family pets" we've worked with. When you train a dog with a knowledgeable helper/club you and the dog become a team. The dog learns to rely on your assessment of a situation (scary bad guy, or guy delivering a pizza) and to me is a much more reliable dog. Having said that, it is not a toy that you can turn on and off, the dog needs to be taught the entire picture, and build to that level of confidence. Our club is one that has a bunch of "pet" owners, these people will probably never title beyond the BH, but it doesn't mean they can't enjoy the activity with their dog. Most clubs are very firm in the rules that you must train the obedience if you want to participate in bitework, and all of our "pet" members have learned to enjoy the tracking as well and come work on that as often as they can.
We have one new member who we encouraged to start Schutzhund because she was having trouble with her GSD getting too amped up at the dog park and then his prey drive would kick in and she had trouble getting him under control once he got going. We got her started in the club and already she is loving it. In addition to more structured obedience we started him on bitework on the puppy wedge. He now has an "Aus" command which she can use at the dog park. When he gets really crazy at the park she can now put him on a down to chill for a sec, and she can also use the Aus command to tell him to take his mouth off another dog. She is VERY impressed with how smart her boy is now LOL.
Someone stated that if you get involved in Schutzhund you won't have time for anything else in your life. Not so. You can get involved to that level, but that generally applies to people who love to compete. Like I said our club is mostly families, we work twice a week and the members work on their own as much or as little as they'd like. Both of my children are now into Schutzhund, my 14yo daughter will be going for the BH this spring and my 19yo son is becoming a very proficient helper. Most of our members have kids and bring them to practice, the kids learn dog skills and the dogs learn kid skills!


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

Liesje said:


> I need to know how my dog works and thinks, what is his balance of drives, how high or low is his threshold level, etc. I think we have a better bond and better trust in each other because of it.





bocron said:


> Personally, I like to have control of my dog and when and how he uses his/her mouth.


This is EXACTLY why I started Schutzhund. Except my dog, Madix, WAS a mouthy puppy and he is nippy and he does have high herding/prey drive so I had my hands full. This sport has helped enormously to teach him when/what is appropriate. It can only get better in my opinion. 

I also train for: obedience, rally, flyball, dock jumping, agility and hopefully will start herding in the spring.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

FG167 said:


> This is EXACTLY why I started Schutzhund. Except my dog, Madix, WAS a mouthy puppy and he is nippy and he does have high herding/prey drive so I had my hands full. This sport has helped enormously to teach him when/what is appropriate. It can only get better in my opinion.
> 
> I also train for: obedience, rally, flyball, dock jumping, agility and hopefully will start herding in the spring.


Yikes! How do you find the time for all of that?


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Depending on the club, some Schutzhund clubs train for other venues too.
The club jaggirl and I are part of has an annual herding event.

We combine agility work with our regular obedience routines, as well.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Schutzhund was a test for breed worthiness for German Shepherds. It speaks to the makeup of a German Shepherd. For this reason, it is something the dogs can really enjoy. It was designed to express their inner skills and traits. I don"t know that it is something I will ever achieve a title in but I try to do it because the dogs love it.

It builds the relationship I have with the dogs. They take such joy in it that it makes me smile to work with them there. That smiling is probably a big motivator for me.

As said before, it does not have to be schutzhund. But, with a smart and active German Shepherd it is probably best that it is something. Look for an activity you both enjoy. I think German Shepherds love to learn cooperative activities to do with their owner. Seems to me that it what herding dogs are about. I have never had a GSD who was not trained in different activities or sports. they all lived to do those things with me. It is good for their very being.

As far as mouthing, I can't speak directly to that. sometimes that is age related as GSD pups are mouthy creatures. My older dogs will do it when they want to "do something" with me and they are trying to get me to engage. Generally, training and activity help with everything best I can tell. 

It can be fun trying out different activities and finding what you and your dog can enjoy together.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

To be very frank, schutzhund is time consuming. I don't think there is anyway around that. It's a sport with THREE phases after all. So if your heart is not in it, then I don't think it will work. You have to find an activity that the dog and YOU both like ... it could be herding, agility, flyball, frisbee, or just being outdoorsy and active in general.

As for a pup being mouthy, it's something that you can "fix" with or without Schutzhund training.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Jason L said:


> As for a pup being mouthy, it's something that you can "fix" with or without Schutzhund training.


I wasn't really asking whether or not Schutzhund training would fix it. I was asking more if and how it would affect it. And if you have a way to "fix" mouthiness, please share because nothing we've tried so far has worked!


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Redirection.
It's easier to show a dog how to be good, than stop a dog from being bad.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I appreciate everyone's responses. I keep having this feeling like there is something I'm missing and if I just had that one golden nugget of knowledge, I would "get" Schutzhund. I'm not sure why it is that I just don't seem to be able to wrap my head around it. I guess if my husband wants to participate, he can but I think I'll find something else to do with my "dog" time.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

The best fix is time and patience and not make a huge deal out if it. Once the pup is old enough and you have a better read on the dog, then you can start letting him know that putting his teeth on you in anyway is NOT OKAY. But until then (until he is old enough to take a correction), there is really not a whole lot you can do. 

This is Ike as a little pup. 





He does not have a mouthing problem now but I don't think it has anything to do with his SchH training. Genetically he has a very high prey drive and will go for anything that moves BUT he also knows I am not prey nor am I his chewbone or tug toy.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

paulag1955 said:


> I appreciate everyone's responses. I keep having this feeling like there is something I'm missing and if I just had that one golden nugget of knowledge, I would "get" Schutzhund. I'm not sure why it is that I just don't seem to be able to wrap my head around it. I guess if my husband wants to participate, he can but I think I'll find something else to do with my "dog" time.


That's why the general consensus has been, go visit a club with your husband and *see* it.
You'll know then whether or not it's right for you. It will either speak to you or it won't.


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

paulag1955 said:


> I appreciate everyone's responses. I keep having this feeling like there is something I'm missing and if I just had that one golden nugget of knowledge, I would "get" Schutzhund. I'm not sure why it is that I just don't seem to be able to wrap my head around it. I guess if my husband wants to participate, he can but I think I'll find something else to do with my "dog" time.


Hey like many have said, go and check it out for yourself. If you think it is too "hard", meaning you don't like seeing the bitework or whatever, there is always SAR or so many other things you can do with your dog.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

SchDDR said:


> Redirection.
> It's easier to show a dog how to be good, than stop a dog from being bad.


That's what we've been doing all along and so far the results have been less than satisfactory.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

SchDDR said:


> Redirection.
> It's easier to show a dog how to be good, than stop a dog from being bad.


I'm surprised you said this. Positive training and redirection has many benefits(bond, increased drive, no way to really mess it up etc.) but speed is not one of them.

I can teach almost any dog to stop nipping (on me), jumping on the furniture (when I'm around) with 1-2 repetitions. I can teach the word "stop" very quickly. That said it is dangerous and generally a bad idea to do this if you have bad timing or don't know what you are doing.

Positive training is a very good idea for most but certainly not because its easier or faster.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Well easier is not a great word. to give a dog an action to take rather than give them the large set of behaviors a "do't do this" leaves open makes more sense to me as regards dog brain.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

Let me put it this way...

I would much prefer to take a couple of weeks to teach my dog to wait patiently by my feet when I'm cooking. I could do this all positively and with very little physical pressure.

Or I could turn the burner on and let my dog jump up and put his paw on it? Which one would be quicker? Which one would make more sense to the dog?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Both make sense but the ouch has not provided a path to desirable behavior and may result in another undesirable option chosen.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

Well said. But that's the benefit of positive training. Not speed or ease.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

That is why the word "easier" is the problematic descriptor. Some may find one way easier than the other and vice versa. Kinda like it depends on what the definition of the word is is.

My dog's paw on the hot gas flame does not deterr him from doing it again either though. So that method is not always so swiftly and permanenty effective. It all depends.... 
This dog's desire for drive fulfillment is not easily diminished by the threat of a physical aversive. If he is shown a quicker pathway to drive fulfillment, such as a sit at the stove, it is "easier" than going through the burning hair smell every time there is food up there.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

As for doing SchH I agree with the others, go check out clubs, watch some trials, etc. We aren't going to convince you to do it or not do it, it's really something you have to want to do or not, and the decision should not be made without a clearer picture of what it is. Our club often has visitors that are a friend or family member of a club member and when we ask them what they thought they almost always respond, "it wasn't what I expected...."


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I always thought that SchH helps a dog to learn how to control his own drives. Not just depend on the owner completely for being turned on and off but to develop a dog's own judgement as well as being able to function as a part of the team with the owner. Is this true? So far every one mentions control over a dog, but what about the dog's independent thinking and problem solving? 

What are your thoughts?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

To me the word "control" is too close to "contain". I like the word "channel". The dog's drives are what they are. You can squash or encourage them to some extent but really they are genetic. Schutzhund helps the handler learn the dog's balance of drives and where their threshold lies, and then gives the handler tools to channel those drives. 

Take Nikon for example. If I never did Schutzhund I would not know that in protection, my dog works mostly in defense and has a higher threshold. I learned that in protection he is not object oriented. He assess the level of threat and then acts accordingly. His work in the blind and taking drives and stick hits is better than his escapes and long bites, because the threat is close and physical, so he responds with more power. Since learning these things about my dog I began doing other protection work with him and having him worked with a suit. Now I know his strengths and weaknesses. I would never have known any of this just by observing my dog's behavior when the mailman goes by or when a stranger walks past the gate.

Not only do you learn how to channel the drives and to what extent the dog possess each drive, but in Schutzhund protection you see the dog switching drives, like from prey to fight to defense, etc.

To me Schutzhund gives me the most complete understanding of my dog and our training. I don't consider it "Schutzhund training" unless the dog is being trained consistently in all three phases. They each have great value to me (even if I enjoy one more than the others). I learned a ton about how my dog problem-solves through tracking. It doesn't necessarily change his drives in any phase but it shows me more about the dog so I can adjust the training in each phase accordingly.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I don't understand all of it certainly. For me the control part of schutzhund is that the dog is working in high drive with intensity. They must then be obedient in the midst of that that intensity. They have to switch drives there. They are have to "clear" enough in their mind to respond to obedience even in that high level of drive. Some dogs have difficulty with this. This characteristic about the dog is revealed in the work then.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

To get to the level that Samba is describing takes time. It just doesn't happen in a series of visits. That is where the word "commitment" comes in.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

SchDDR said:


> Depending on the club, some Schutzhund clubs train for other venues too.
> The club jaggirl and I are part of has an annual herding event.
> 
> We combine agility work with our regular obedience routines, as well.


 
Yes we do combine agility. It helps with the balance of the dog. I am also really looking forward to the herding this year.  I am interested in seeing how Leyna reacts. lol

If you are interested in checking out the club SchDDR and I are members of, pm me. I will give you the info on where to go and the email for our trainer to let her know you want to visit. We have an awesome group of members who will answer your questions and help you understand everything.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

paulag1955 said:


> Yikes! How do you find the time for all of that?


I don't sleep! LOL, no, dog sports in general is my passion. I like to be active but tend to, on my own time, be extremely lazy (especially when the weather is crappy - which in MI, it is a lot). Madix gets me up, out of the house, _thinking_ and extremely active instead! I love it - I know it's a huge commitment but that's part of what I enjoy so much. I really enjoy the group I train with and seeing them and their dogs work every week is just part of the fun 



GSD07 said:


> I always thought that SchH helps a dog to learn how to control his own drives. Not just depend on the owner completely for being turned on and off but to develop a dog's own judgement as well as being able to function as a part of the team with the owner. Is this true? So far every one mentions control over a dog, but what about the dog's independent thinking and problem solving?
> 
> What are your thoughts?


I think it's done exactly this for Madix. Not "squash" his drives, like Lies stated. But, he definitely knows what is more appropriate these days. When I first moved into my apartment, he would growl at every single man that looked our way - he did not like them looking at me. After being in Schutzhund and being introduced to what a "threat" really is, now he assesses the situation and has, so far, written them off. Occasionally someone's actions make him leery enough to stare intently but I also know exactly what his "tells" are now (another reason to LOVE SchH) so I can correct, modify or distract depending on situation. He's also a lot more comfortable with the other dogs in the building - they don't play together or anything but he can now ignore them.

I have done a LOT of background work, making Madix look to me in all things (read: HUGE mama's boy!). We are now working on developing his confidence in his own abilities in SchH and I think it will only make us a better and stronger team. 

Oh and I absolutely LOVE what the obedience portions of SchH have done for us - basically I love it all and we're both having a blast and learning about each other and how to be better together. Cheesy but true.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

paulag1955 said:


> So Shasta is a very high energy, unfocused, noisy and mouthy puppy. My husband thinks she would enjoy training for schutzhund. I know for sure it's not something I would be particularly interested in doing, but if we start, I know who'll be putting in the time/driving/training or whatever.
> 
> I'm wondering how schutzhund might benefit her, or if she would even be suitable for training...I would certainly not ever be interested in going to trials.
> 
> As far as her mouthiness goes, would the training affect that? Make it worse? Better? What kind of a time commitment are we talking about?


I know I should not be posting here in the Schutzhund section, but I felt just as you do now, about five years ago. I could care less about trialing. I felt that if I did that, it would make training no fun. 

I was wrong. As sick as it can make me before going into the ring, I absolutely LOVE getting out there and showing off what me and my dogs have worked on. It is not the end of training, but it is like a graduation ceramony or test before moving on to the next level of training. 

I do not think I really want to do schutzhund. Tracking isn't my thing. And I am not big on the protection section either, but who knows, five years from now, I might have schutzhund titles on all my dogs. Hard to say. 

Once you get into it with a good group of people to train with, I think going to trials is the next logical step. I do not know if you get ribbons for placements. (We do.) I am hooked. To think a cheap little slip of fabric would make me spend that kind of money....


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

jaggirl47 said:


> If you are interested in checking out the club SchDDR and I are members of, pm me. I will give you the info on where to go and the email for our trainer to let her know you want to visit. We have an awesome group of members who will answer your questions and help you understand everything.


That's very nice of you to offer, but it's too far to drive. I hear there's a schutzhund club in Snohomish, which is only about 20 minutes from our house. I'm going to give all the info to my husband and if he's interested, I guess we'll check it out.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Just a small recommendation, check out at least 3 different clubs. Even if you think they are too far away to be "your" club. 
Best wishes and have fun with your pup.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

rvadog said:


> I'm surprised you said this. Positive training and redirection has many benefits(bond, increased drive, no way to really mess it up etc.) but speed is not one of them.
> 
> I can teach almost any dog to stop nipping (on me), jumping on the furniture (when I'm around) with 1-2 repetitions. I can teach the word "stop" very quickly. That said it is dangerous and generally a bad idea to do this if you have bad timing or don't know what you are doing.
> 
> Positive training is a very good idea for most but certainly not because its easier or faster.


Define easier?
Is it "easier" if you teach the dog to "stop", only to have him redirect his energies to a NEW negative behavior that you then have to stop?

Is it easier if you teach a dog that drive and enthusiasm are bad, and then end up with a dog that has little interest in training?

Sure, your method is "easier" if you only look at that one situation.

If you consider that everything effects everything else, and that there are no isolated lessons to a dog, you quickly realize you create a lot of your own work by trying to control dogs rather than channel them.

It's easier to let the puppy who screams out of the crate than it is to endure it.
Until he screams again.
And again.

Suddenly, it's not so easy anymore.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

gagsd said:


> Just a small recommendation, check out at least 3 different clubs. Even if you think they are too far away to be "your" club.
> Best wishes and have fun with your pup.


Thanks, I'm not even sure if we have three clubs in our state. I'll have to check.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

paulag1955 said:


> Thanks, I'm not even sure if we have three clubs in our state. I'll have to check.


There are at least three just in the area jaggirl and I are in.
Cascade, Lynne Lewis's club [I forget the name], and Twin County.

There's a club in Snohomish, and Willie Pope's club in Spokane.

And those are just the USA affiliated clubs.
I'm sure there are many more.

Even if Schutzhund isn't your choice of sport, dog sports in general often do end up involving a good deal of travel.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yes definitely check multiple clubs! I could train 20 minutes from my house but instead I used to drive nearly 2 hours each way (now it's more like 1.5) because the training was (IMO) better, better fit with the club/people, my preferred training styles.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

SchDDR said:


> Even if Schutzhund isn't your choice of sport, dog sports in general often do end up involving a good deal of travel.


We're just looking for something fun to do with the dog. It needs to be local; there's no way we'd travel for competitions. I didn't even do that when our daughter was swimming.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Paula, Now you have me curious. I have the same feelings about schutzhund so I will have to see what they offer here in Okie-homa lol


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

paulag1955 said:


> I appreciate everyone's responses. I keep having this feeling like there is something I'm missing and if I just had that one golden nugget of knowledge, I would "get" Schutzhund. I'm not sure why it is that I just don't seem to be able to wrap my head around it. I guess if my husband wants to participate, he can but I think I'll find something else to do with my "dog" time.


I think I understand where you are coming from. When my DH first told me about it, it seemed very strange to me. I didn't think I would ever want my dog "trained to bite". When we first got Bison, my DH was interest in SchH, but there wasn't a club around us that didn't train on Sunday. We are active in our church, so that wasn't an option for us.

After a few years, I realized that Bison need more "work" than what he was getting with basic obedience and he had packed on the lbs after he was neutered. When I started looking for something to get involved in, I found the club that we train with now. Honestly, I just thought it would be really cool to just see what it was all about and never really thought that I would decide to join. After one visit, I was hooked. 

I was so impressed with the bond that each handler had with their dogs, and the cool stuff that they were doing together (mostly the obedience). I clicked right away with the club members. But most importantly Bison LOVED it! There is just something awesome about seeing your dog do what they are born to do.

I think it is great that you are going to visit a club. You might decide it isn't for you, but at least you are checking it out. 

As for the mouthing, I can relate. Bison was a little land shark. The redirection does work, you just have to be very consistent and don't give up. I know some advise against it, had more success putting a verbal command along with it. "No" when the mouth is in the wrong place and "Yes" or "Good Boy!" when it is in the right place. The icing on the cake was adding in separation. When he was a little older, if he put teeth on skin, the game stopped. I walked away and ignored him. He HATED that. Then I would wait for a couple minute and initiate play with a toy and praise when the teeth went somewhere they belonged. It didn't take long for him to understand that teeth on skin stops the fun and teeth on toy equals fun. Only caution is that he also learned that he has to have a toy in his mouth when we play. Now anytime I get his attention, he scrambles around to get a toy. I am ok with that.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

paulag1955 said:


> We're just looking for something fun to do with the dog. It needs to be local; there's no way we'd travel for competitions. I didn't even do that when our daughter was swimming.


You're right that it is a huge commitment even when done at the "club" level (training more for fun and earning titles along the way, not competing nationally or internationally).

How about agility or something like that? If you're not totally sold on Schutzhund, there's a dozen other things. I am not one that thinks just because a puppy is bitey and has some pent up energy means Schutzhund is the only solution. I would rather have someone do Schutzhund because they want to do Schutzhund. Honestly, I think pretty much any type of training that involves activity can have the exact same benefits as Schutzhund (better bond, obedience, channeling drives, mental and physical stimulation, etc).


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## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

I apologize if this has already been discussed, Is there a base that should be established before doing Schutzhund? Like should my pup be able to follow basic commands/loose leash walk etc? Do they have to be a certain age?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm a first time dog owner


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

It will depend on each club, frankly.

A dog *can* begin the foundational work as young as 8 weeks. You just have to go slower, and train for much, much shorter sessions.

As mentioned elsewhere, different clubs have different approaches. Some are not welcoming to dogs that don't have a foundational degree of obedience. Some are not welcoming to first time trainers, or those who don't have serious competition ambitions. Many, however, are open to first time puppy owners who simply want to train in the sport to enrich their relationship with their dogs, as a hobby.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

ArkAngel said:


> I apologize if this has already been discussed, Is there a base that should be established before doing Schutzhund? Like should my pup be able to follow basic commands/loose leash walk etc? Do they have to be a certain age?
> 
> Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm a first time dog owner


You might want to create your own thread to get more answers...but my answer would be no. And actually probably not. 

Schutzhund has some pretty stylized obedience and retraining something like a Sit or a Down can be a pain in the butt. For example, many people will train their dogs to rock back into a sit. This can end up putting your dog out of position in the heeling. Many dogs are also trained to down from a sit. This is slow and can cost you points in the routine. Teaching the dog to fold or slide into a down is preferable for competition. Even simple things like loose leash walking can be wrong depending on how it's been trained. In Schutzhund it is important in certain situations (tracking and protection) for a dog to willingly pull against it's collar and not be too sensitive to the handler on the other end of the leash. Most obedience is offlead, so I start all my pups offlead. 

If you get with a club, they will guide you on the best way to start your puppy out. My pups attended club from the time I got them. Maybe they didn't do much...but I got to learn watching the other dogs and it was also a nice socialization opportunity.


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## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks for the replys,

My boy is 6 months, I have had him for about 1 month, I have taught him to fetch, sit, down and "UP" for up on a table or whatever I want him on when I have to do things like clean his ears

I guess Ill contact the local clubs, thanks for the help!


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