# When should we start flyball and agility



## familydag5 (Jan 24, 2015)

Hi, my puppy will be 8 months when classes start back up again at the training facility where we have been taking basic obedience classes, and though I am feeling excited and ready to start flyball or agility I am just not sure if the timing is right. Loki LOVES tug and to play ball and learns very quickly but I don't want to jump the gun and start him too early if he is not ready. And I am wondering if there is something I can be doing instead to help prepare him for these sport environments. I do get him out in the world in as many environments as possible and he is doing great.

The couple times we practiced restrained recalls in our OB class Loki did great, nothing could distract him and he couldn't get back to me fast enough but when the other dogs took their turns Loki was very excited, very vocal, like screaming lol, trying to pull and hard to distract. The trainers did invite us to these classes and see him as a great prospect but as far as agility goes they warned that there will be a lot of waiting to take his turn which could be hard for him and in flyball I can only assume there is that high energy that really gets him going. 

Right now I am leaning towards flyball, I know we will both love it and I was told there is plenty of foundation work to do without hurting his joints, and my feeling is that perhaps this could be a good environment to work on overly excited Loki as I THINK this behavior is not all that uncommon here? If 8 months is too early what is a good age to start both agility and flyball?

Any insight and thoughts would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you!!!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

From these 2 articles on flyball Puppy Training Performance Sports and on agility 3. Start Early | Dog Training | Animal Planet a young dog can start at 6 months or earlier but the classes need to be geared to the age level.


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## familydag5 (Jan 24, 2015)

Thank you for sharing these articles, Mary Beth, very helpful!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

At our training facility, pups are started with agility after a couple of rounds of puppy classes. I believe our last one started agility basics at about 20 weeks old.

We do half a class of "Beginner Agility Basics" and half a class of "Beginner Obedience Basics". 

Beginner agility consists of things like:
*Tunnel: the "tunnel" is collapsed as far as it can, so it looks like the size of a large tire. The instructor holds the pup on a leash at one end of the tunnel, the puppy parent goes to the other end of the tunnel, and while holding a "high value" thing for that particular puppy, either a favorite toy or high value food treat, and calls the puppy enthusiastically to come through the tunnel. When the pup comes through praise and reward is given.

*Jumps: Although there is no jumping, the bars of the jump are left on the ground so that the pup has to walk over while going through the center of the jump.

*Teeter: When being introduced to this obstacle, the "Bang" noise of the teeter hitting the floor is the first thing the pup is acclimated to. The puppies sit quite a distance away from the teeter. The instructor pushes the teeter down and "Bang's" the teeter, the puppy is given a high value reward for not getting scared. IF the "bang" doesn't scare the pup, he is allowed to move one step closer. IF upset by the noise, those pups stay in their spot and do not move closer until they are comfortable with the noise.

*Dog Walk: This obstacle begins with a 12" wide X 2" high board is laying on the ground and the owner "bates" the pup to walk across the top of the board.

*Wobble Boards: Where the pup learns to stand, sit, and walk on an uneven board teaching them balance.

*Walking over different surfaces like a tarp, a sheet of plywood, tarp with water one top of it, and some fencing (this was a part of our GSDCA Temperament testing to earn our certificate).

I've only been to one "Fly-Ball" tournament, and that was enough for me! LOL 
The barking was crazy (I have sensitive ears)! :crazy: But the dogs competing in this sport were FANTASTIC and they absolutely LOVED it!

Some of these things you can create at home ala DYI and a little imagination!

*It would be interesting to find out at what age others started their pups in the basics of agility or fly-ball!*

I think Loki is more than ready to begin which ever you choose or even both if you have the time for classes!

Moms


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Momto2GSDs said:


> *It would be interesting to find out at what age others started their pups in the basics of agility or fly-ball!*


Agility is so much fun! I was worried about impact/joint strain, so Tica started basic agility when she was about 18 months. Later on, I found another training facility in our area that has a foundation course specifically geared toward young dogs, so I am SUPER excited that my little one can start at a younger age. This is their class description:

"Puppy Agility
Agility is a sport where the dog/handler team run a timed obstacle course consisting of mostly jumps, tunnels and climbing obstacles. This 6 week course is designed to introduce young puppies (between 4 and 9 months of age) to Agility obstacles. The emphasis is on building a strong relationship and having fun with your puppy. To ensure your puppy's safety and long-term health, obstacles are kept very low and only obstacles deemed safe for young puppies are used. Agility is a great way to build confidence and control in your puppy while having a blast! Puppies must wear a plain buckle or snap-release collar....." and so on.

We'll be starting with this class around four/five months. Ayla's breeder introduced the litter to a wobble bridge, and I have a small tunnel and a practice "plank" that we've been messing around with in the backyard, in the meantime.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

We start puppies immediately. As with all sports and training, the training is age appropriate. As soon as the pups are allowed into our training facility (after second shots, so about 12 weeks), they start flyball. There are several drills we do with a baby puppy:

1. We start with short recalls "on the flat" (on the flat means just on the mats, NO jumps of any kind). These are basically restrained recalls like you would see in a basic obedience class. A team mate holds your puppy in front of the box, you call your puppy, take off running, and the puppy is released. The first time, the pup might be release almost immediately, so he's only running about 10 feet to get to you/your tug toy. We slowly build the distance as the puppy figures out this game.

2. We will do these recalls in pairs, because perhaps the biggest obstacle for a flyball dog is being able to perform the task *with another dog* always racing next to them. Sometimes we put some ring gates between the two lanes, or we have team mates stand around and help "herd" the two puppies and give verbal corrections for trying to "cross over" (go into the other lane or chase another dog). Often times, since we are adding in this distraction, we have to back up and make the recalls very short again. As with #1, this involves NO jumping or obstacles, only the distraction of a second dog, handler, and toy.

3. Chase recalls - we will have 3-4 people stand up in front of the box, each holding a puppy. All the handlers line up and the puppies are released one right after the other about 10 feet apart. They are essentially "chasing" the dog in front but then have to pull into the runback lane to their own handler/tug toy. This is great for building their speed and drive and then proofing their control. We do it in a round so the puppy who went "first" then goes last, number two goes first, etc until each puppy has taken a turn being first and last. Again, NO jumps or obstacles.

4. For puppies that are doing good with full distance recalls and are not brand new babies, but still not mature enough to start jumping, we will lay the 1" slats for jumps flat on the ground where a jump would be. They don't have to actually jump it, but mentally they will start getting used to *something* being there and this will help develop their stride.

5. "Trades" for a ball - I like to introduce the retrieving behavior right away AND also the idea that a tennis ball is *neutral* (you do not want to have a dog super hyped up about balls). What I will do is hold my puppy back about 10-15 feet from the box or a wall, roll a tennis ball so that it hits and stops in front of the box or wall, release the puppy to run and grab the ball, and then "trade" for treat or tug (even if I'm using tugs as my main reward, I often will start this game with treats in my hand). Once the understanding is there, I build the criteria so that the puppy has to either put the ball in my hand or drop it where I can reach it, not just touch it with their mouth and run back to me. Eventually he needs to carry that ball over the start line or his run won't count 

6. Puppy passing drill - We do this drill to start passing. With baby puppies, use nothing or or the 1" jump slat lying flat. For older puppies that are starting to jump LOW, use a double wide, low jump. The puppies are restrained on one side of the line/low jump, facing each other, with the handlers on the other side (VERY close) and they are released to "pass" each other going over the jump at the same time. They won't ever have to actually pass going over a jump during a real run (unless someone's pass is super early, haha!) but this drill is to introduce them to staying on their side of the lane and running past each other really close. I use food rewards for this drill since the drive/speed is not the goal.

For baby pups, just keep your rewards LOW/on the ground (not having them leap into tugs), obviously NO jumps, doing their recalls ON the flyball mats or grass (not on concrete or solid flooring), and less is more. Do a few drills so that they show *understanding*, not so much that they get physically exhausted. We might bring a puppy out 3-4 times during a practice to do 2-3 recalls, whereas "green" dogs or competition dogs get 2 turns but are doing 5-7 full heats (with some warmup and box drill).

These are some random examples from YouTube!

My Legend and his brother Patton doing puppy recalls together, 4 months





More side by side recalls





Puppy recalls





Itty bitty baby puppy starting tug and recalls





You see, it's a lot of RECALLS! Which you can NEVER start too young!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

PS. I just saw you have an "E" Geistwasser dog! I used to own a dog called Pan (Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser), also a son of Boy, and he was an awesome flyball dog, ran a 3.9 and "quit" flyball before he even reached his prime. He quit flyball because his new owner focused on IPO (where he earned several SchH3 including two at national events). I also know of one other Geistwasser dog that does or did NAFA flyball and was good and fast. GSDs are unconventional in flyball but still fun!


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## familydag5 (Jan 24, 2015)

Moms and Liesje, THANK YOU so very much for sharing your expertise and wisdom on your sports with me, I am now feeling so very inspired and so much more confident about our path and I will be printing out your thoughtful responses and using them as a reference!

Liesje, I have been researching breeders on here long enough to know full well you owned Pan and was so hoping you would respond to this thread lol! Thanks for the videos, awesome puppies and so helpful! Just signed Loki up for flyball WOOO!!!

Moms, I will get started on a teeter for the backyard asap, thanks for all the excellent ideas!

WIBackpacker, thanks for sharing, we are also in Wisconsin and love backpacking


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yay! Please post updates!

I've been out of flyball for several months. Our training center was destroyed in a tornado last summer. For a while, we continued competing with our seasoned dogs (like my Nikon), but now we've got a lot of puppies and green dogs that can't just compete with no practice. My Legend has done a few tournaments in Preflight but needs regular practice to be team-ready. We're hopefully starting back up again next month!

Legend also does agility but I'm more serious about flyball, so he didn't start agility until he was 14 months or so. He could have started CPE level 1 over this summer, but I had a very busy summer (5 weddings) so we've taken a long pause from agility training. I want to start CPE at Level 3 so he needs more work on weaves and contacts.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

familydag5 said:


> WIBackpacker, thanks for sharing, we are also in Wisconsin and love backpacking


Awesome! Maybe we'll cross paths one of these days, outdoors or at dog events. It's a small world.


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## familydag5 (Jan 24, 2015)

Liesje, that is so unfortunate about your training center, I hope no humans or dogs were hurt! Fingers crossed all works out and you and your team will be up and running next month! And thank you, I will definitely post updates!

WIBackpacker, are you aware there is an IPO Championship in Spring Green next month? I will be spectating, my first IPO event!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Our flyball club teaches classes at a humane society, and generally we suggest dogs be at least year old at the start of class. We did make an exception this year, one of the gs.com forum members had a dog who was 10 months old at the start of class in the Spring, but turned a year old by the end of the class. They're now halfway through the second class series, and doing well. 

Our own club dogs start much younger, as Lies mentions, but we don't do a whole more with them except for side by side flat recalls or opposite direction flat recalls. With a pup that's too small to go over our puppy jumps (5" high), we'll sometimes prop up the sides of the jump and take away the base, so they're not actually jumping, but there is a lane for them to stay in. We'll put up gates at the sides of the jumps at the beginning, and then gradually start to remove them. This is something we started doing fairly recently, and it does seem to help the pups once it's time to put them on the puppy jumps. 

I think we usually start with puppy jumps at about 6 months old, and then it's several months later before we begin working on the box turn. That's the main reason why we want the dogs in our classes to be older - they're paying for a class, and we want them to be able to do as much as possible, so they get the most value for their money. Also, a certain amount of basic obedience is helpful. We don't expect perfection, but the dogs should be able to handle a certain amount of distraction without checking out, and that takes training time and maturity to develop. If a dog isn't paying any attention to their owner they're not going to be getting much out of the class. 

There are a lot of different ways to train a box turn. Our club uses a target stick, so teaching the dog to chase the stick and target the end with their nose is one of the foundation behaviors that can be taught at any age. Also, trading the ball for a tug. If your dog will tug anywhere, terrific! If he will chase a ball and bring it to you for a tug reward, even better! If you're not quite there yet, that's something you can work on. And lots and lots of restrained recalls, preferably for a toy reward, although many dogs would rather run for food. We work with the dog and owner to figure out what works best for their dog. 

We train outdoors on grass, so we'll set up stanchions that mimic the start/finish line sensors. With a young puppy we may start by doing a restrained recall with no other dogs on the field, and if the pup is driving hard to the owner, we'll add a dog, but off to the side. If the pup is super focused and doesn't care about the other dog, we'll start doing SBS or opposite direction recalls. For OD, the dogs start with the stanchions far apart, so there's a lot of space between the dogs, and we'll release the dogs one at a time, waiting until the first dog is to the owner before releasing the second dog. We gradually reduce the stagger, so eventually both are being released at the same time, but still with lots of distance between them. Then we start moving the stanchions closer together to reduce the dogs. This approximates how dogs will be passing each other as one enters and one exits the lane.

For SBS recalls, we also stagger the release at first, also with a lot of distance between them. If the green dog doesn't care about the other dog we start reducing the stagger so they're going at the same time, and then move the stanchions closer. Anything more advanced you're going to need equipment and other people who know what they're doing. A good "swimmers" turn on the box is not only faster, but it's also safer and easier on the dog's body, so we take that very slowly. Retraining a bad turn can take much longer than doing the foundation work to train it right from the beginning.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Here's a pup that belongs to a club member doing opposite direction flat recalls with one of our other club dogs - I think she was 5/6 months old at the time:










They were passing in the middle, so we must have released them at the same time, and we'd already started reducing the distance between them too. You can see that Antic is totally focused on Mollie, and doesn't care about Cannon at all!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

This is Mollie's new puppy Covet - he loves his tuggie, but was doing some chasing when we did recalls with other dogs, so instead of starting with the dogs at opposite ends running towards each other we backed up a step, and had both dogs starting in the middle and running away from each other.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

familydag5 said:


> WIBackpacker, are you aware there is an IPO Championship in Spring Green next month? I will be spectating, my first IPO event!


Yes! I usually work weekends, but I'm going to try and sneak away for a while so I can spectate, to cheer on some "family" (dogs) and friends.


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## familydag5 (Jan 24, 2015)

Debbie, thank you so much for your insight, I really feel like I will be going into this knowing what to expect and now even with ideas on how to handle situations that likely will arise with a green puppy. So much great info, thank you!!


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