# Seeking Behavior advice; toy obsessed 3yr old



## guice (Nov 29, 2013)

Good Afternoon. I'm a first time visitor; I've scrounged through the forums, and didn't run across posts that seem to help. So I thought I'd ask.

I have a 3yr old (100lb) male GSD, Sampson. In general, he's fine. However, he has a few personality quirks I need like some assistance with.

First, and foremost, Sampson is extremely toy obsessed: when I pick up his toy, he will hold a firm trance, focusing on the toy. He'll shift his gaze between me and the toy. But never wavering with any movement of the toy (he does get aggressive when other dogs go for his toys).

Second, in combination with the toy obsession, he always wants to play. He will--often--push his toy into my hands or onto my lap. He gets much worse when company's over. In the morning, he will shove his toy in bed [often in my face] the moment he sense I'm awake. (tonight, I'll start putting everything up before bed)

Thirdly, he's obsessively intrusively hyperactive when meeting anybody. He will not only sniff, but outright shove his entire body onto them, much like a cat saying "hi." He doesn't jump up, but he does plow right into them.

And finally, he's intrusive. When my partner and I are close, Sampson will constantly push himself into the mix--often a toy in mouth to play. It's, well, causing issues. My partner won't admit it, but I can tell he's having problems coping with Sampson.

What can I do to help with all these obsessive behaviors? I understand it'll be a long road to resolve these, but even a little will be big progress. This past week, I've been kicking him out of the bed (by treating him when he leaves after I tell him "off"); it paid off last night as he didn't jump in bed for the entire night! He's smart; he picks things up quickly. I'm just not sure how to get him over these obsessive behaviors -- how do you award him "good" for _not_ doing bad things at the time of doing them? I want to keep away from corrective methods, but it's hard when "everything else" is "good"

*TL;DR Summary:*

 Obsessive behavior over toys.
 Will intrusively push his toys into/onto your hands/lap -- gets much worse when company is over.
 Too friendly with other people (and pets).
 Will often push himself between me and my partner.

I need help fixing these behaviors.

I will add: Sampson and I are in a 1brd apt and, admittedly, I don't walk him nearly as much as I should (on a side note: how much is "should?").

Thanks in advance.


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## pjvie (Oct 16, 2013)

Three things:
1) I LOVE that you just used tl;dr. I still read the whole thing; I've just never seen it on this forum! (and some people could really use it!  )
2) I have never owned a GSD, but have been doing tons of research and am expecting my first soon.
3) This sounds like typical GSD (or even dog) behavior. It is hard to gauge the severity of the behaviors you are posting (like, are they _significantly_ interfering with your life or the dogs life), but even so, it is hard to imagine that these behaviors are bad. He probably just wants attention and to play with someone! And as you may have suggested, maybe he needs to get out more. The average exercise I have heard people mention is _at least_ a walk a day. And arguably more important is mental stimulation, such as training and exploring. It's not always physical. 

If these are behaviors that are causing you distress, then I'm sure people on this forum can give you some great advice on training. However, my hunch is that this is a dog who just wants some love and play time 

EDIT: Just reread mine. Some people will definitely mention that "walking is not exercise" but it comes down to what your specific dog needs to be tired out. Some need to run, others need to do mental exercises.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Good toy drive is a huge plus, not many GSD's have this so consider yourself lucky in that regard. It will come in handy when you start training using a toy as reward.

In the meantime get a crate and crate train him. This way he is contained and leaves you and your partner alone when you need alone time, this will solve 50% of your issues. 

The other 50% will get better with obedience training. Also control the toys, he does not live with the toys and decide what to pick and come bug you with it. You decide which toy is his fav and designate it as a training toy, it is yours. It only comes out when he does as expected and he gets to bite it. After exercise is finished the toy goes back to you for safe keeping. 

What is his current OB capability? Does he sit and down 100% when you command and stay in the commanded position even if you move and only leaves the position when you release? Does he drop the toys when you command out or leave it? Does he have and obey the place command when indoors? If yes, then you are ready to move further along in training, if no then you need a plan to get to the above mentioned items where they are 100% repeatable in any distraction.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Ha ha I'm with packen . If you only knew what you had...


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## guice (Nov 29, 2013)

Interesting. I always thought his obsession over toys was a little abnormal.

Thanks, Packen. To answer your questions:

I do have a travel kennel. It's technically "too small" (700 series; doesn't meet strict airline size specs, but they do allow it). However, he does fit, and I do still use it as a "bedtime" (his command) location; I don't lock him in it, nor does he stay after he finishes his treat.

I do know if I were to lock him, he will ... to put it mildly ... go ape. He hasn't been kennel restricted for a couple years. And wasn't too pleased the last time we flew (last year).

OB Capacity:

 Distraction free 90% of the time. With incentive (I'm holding a treat), 100%. With distractions; depends on distraction...
 He does not remain until I give him the command to move. Stay works for about 30 seconds...
 I have been working on "stay" with his food: I put him in his "place" (mat) until I give him the command "Okay." However, he does get a impatient: he will jump the gun if you make any gestures forward; he will jump the gun if you're not looking.
 I also make him sit/stay by the door before we leave/return to/from our walks.

Toy:

 No. He will not drop on command.
 When he _does_ drop it, he will remain within a foot ready to "race" you to his toy.
 He _may_ (accidentally) bite your hand if you're "too slow." This is a _massive_ issue I've been trying to work on with him...he thinks it's just a game. 
 He will "leave it" if I give it to him slowly, reinforcing "leave it." However, once he gains possession, "Leave It" no longer works.

Place:

 Yes, with exceptions.
 He has a place. I send him to his mat every time I feed him. I make him stay there until I give the "okay." (exceptions mentioned above)
 I do use the mat occasionally when treating him.
 He goes about 70% on command, distraction free. With distractions (somebody at the door?), 5? 10%? Throw a toy, and he won't know what the mat is.

Now questions for you:
How should I start with the toy training? Do I concern myself the rest of the time of the day when I'm busy and he's moping around with nothing to do? What's the best way to return him to crate confining? Any tips and suggestions for other training, too?


@Baillif -- Ha! Care to explain? I take it you mean the toy obsession? That is interesting. I never knew it was such a good thing -- he's an ace at finding *logs* on trail hikes, too! 

@pjvie  Thanks for the general info. Mental training is a possibility, and something I've been moving towards in order to increase training him. Hopefully it'll work. I know in humans (I'm a programmer), mental exhaustion can wear you out!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Extremely normal for a Shepherd. I have a ball obsessed girl. We find there are times when we just have to take it up and say no more!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

There is quite a bit to explain. When dogsport people are training they use food and toys as motivation to teach all the behaviors of the sport to the point the dog doesn't even have to think about it. The more "obsessed" as you call it a dog is for food or toy the more motivation is there to work with to channel into obedience. We call it drive, as you can imagine there is a much more positive connotation to it than the term you use.

For some dogs you have to go out of your way to create desire for a toy reward and manufacture drive for it. Your dog just has "it." The only reason you see it as a problem is you haven't harnessed it to get the behavior you want...yet. 

If the desire for toy and play and interaction is already there you just need to add control. Ie dog brings it back to you and releases on command. The dog also needs to learn he can earn play through doing what you want. At that point a tennis ball might as well be an orb of mind control to that dog.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

He may be biting you accidentally because you are "hooking" the toy. If you move a toy side to side as he is attempting to bite he will anticipate the movement and hit you by accident. You have to move the toy in straight lines toward or away from him or up and down "if holding it on the sides"

You sound like you have a fantastic dog with great drive and have no idea how to utilize it. See if you can find some ipo or ringsports clubs or trainers in your area. They will set you straight. Also do some research into Michael Ellis and Ivan balabanov.


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## guice (Nov 29, 2013)

Baillif said:


> He may be biting you accidentally because you are "hooking" the toy. If you move a toy side to side as he is attempting to bite he will anticipate the movement and hit you by accident. You have to move the toy in straight lines toward or away from him or up and down "if holding it on the sides"
> 
> You sound like you have a fantastic dog with great drive and have no idea how to utilize it. See if you can find some ipo or ringsports clubs or trainers in your area. They will set you straight. Also do some research into Michael Ellis and Ivan balabanov.


Indeed. He is a fantastic dog. You're absolutely right that I don't know how to utilize this motivation...yet. Thanks.

That bit about moving is very interesting. Right now, he will drop his down then stare at it. Any movement towards he will pounce on it. Straight line. I'll try that.

ipo, ringsports clubs? Huh. I'm in Sunnyvale, CA if anybody has any recommendations. There is a GSD group that goes out to a place every weekend. However, it's a little far and costly.


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## Bikecafe (Jun 11, 2011)

There is Menlo Park Schutzhund Club

menloparkschutzhund.com


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

guice said:


> Indeed. He is a fantastic dog. You're absolutely right that I don't know how to utilize this motivation...yet. Thanks.
> 
> That bit about moving is very interesting. Right now, he will drop his down then stare at it. Any movement towards he will pounce on it. Straight line. I'll try that.
> 
> ipo, ringsports clubs? Huh. I'm in Sunnyvale, CA if anybody has any recommendations. There is a GSD group that goes out to a place every weekend. However, it's a little far and costly.


For a pet owner who doesn't want or isn't into sports this drive can be directed in a different ways. The key is to giving him lots of exercise. Tossing a ball or a toy can be good but you have to keep switching it up so he doesn't get bored. When the kids were little I taught the dogs to play hide and seek with the kids. Wore them both out. Just make sure he gets lots of exercise. A tired dog is less likely to make up his own games.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

imo a dog with a good ball drive are the best type to train. you can get great focus from them.

to get him to not be so obsessed when he drops the ball you should play the two ball game. when he drops the ball, immediately throw another ball for him to go fetch. he'll learn that dropping the ball when commanded will actually get him another ball. that way he wont have to focus on the first ball and you can pick it up. 

when he is looking at the ball dont throw it. when he looks at your face for a split second then throw the ball. he'll learn that looking at you gets the reward and looking at the ball doesnt get him anything. gradually you can add more time he has to focus on you before you throw the ball. eventually you have a dog that is focused on you because thats how he gets his reward. you can teach most obedience commands using his ball. a dog with great ball drive wants to WORK for his ball and really are a joy to train. mine will find a ball and stuff it in my face while i'm asleep. he has no shame.


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## guice (Nov 29, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> when he is looking at the ball dont throw it. when he looks at your face for a split second then throw the ball. he'll learn that looking at you gets the reward and looking at the ball doesnt get him anything. gradually you can add more time he has to focus on you before you throw the ball. eventually you have a dog that is focused on you because thats how he gets his reward. you can teach most obedience commands using his ball. a dog with great ball drive wants to WORK for his ball and really are a joy to train. mine will find a ball and stuff it in my face while i'm asleep. he has no shame.


Oh. Good suggestion. I have been playing the two ball game. He would drop it, on command, as long as I had a second ball or he _thought_ I had a second ball. However, outside of park play, "Drop" just never worked.

I like the focus idea. I didn't think about that. I'll definitely give that a shot. Thanks!


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## Mts678 (Jun 23, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> imo a dog with a good ball drive are the best type to train. you can get great focus from them.
> 
> to get him to not be so obsessed when he drops the ball you should play the two ball game. when he drops the ball, immediately throw another ball for him to go fetch. he'll learn that dropping the ball when commanded will actually get him another ball. that way he wont have to focus on the first ball and you can pick it up.
> 
> when he is looking at the ball dont throw it. when he looks at your face for a split second then throw the ball. he'll learn that looking at you gets the reward and looking at the ball doesnt get him anything. gradually you can add more time he has to focus on you before you throw the ball. eventually you have a dog that is focused on you because thats how he gets his reward. you can teach most obedience commands using his ball. a dog with great ball drive wants to WORK for his ball and really are a joy to train. mine will find a ball and stuff it in my face while i'm asleep. he has no shame.


Great Info!! According to everyone's input here, my dog has high drive. I am new at learning about how to work with these dogs and the whole song n dance deal. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Sounds like you have yourself a very nice dog. I would see about getting involved in some sort of activity to provide him with an outlet; schutzhund, agility, flyball, etc..


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I'll second the Michael Ellis and Ivan Balabanov suggestion. If you don't find going to a club to train works for you, I would invest in some videos that will help you harness your dogs drive into things you want him to do.

David Winners


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Michael Ellis Engagement Training With His Dog Pi - YouTube

The reward becomes the continuation of the game. Instead of the two ball method I usually try to use the immoblization of the toy to get the dog to let go. The toy basically goes dead till the dog lets go. When he does let go you mark the behavior. Ellis uses yes and then the toy comes alive again and the game continues. Then you eventually put it in the out command.

You teach it with a tug or ball on string first before moving to a ball which would be harder to immobilize since it's in the dogs mouth.


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