# Thinking of PTS sooner than expected



## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

I need to get your thoughts as I sort this out. Heidi is 13 and has pretty severe arthritis and HD. I have a quality of life scale that I use and I assess her regularly. It deals with: my feelings, pain, communication, her ability to take care of her own needs, and dignity. So far, I think she has scored well, although I would not try to say she is in good shape. She still gets around, enjoys playing with a ball, wants to go with me in the car, eats well. However, I noticed lately how bent her back legs are and they are bent when she's standing and when she's walking. Friends and family are beginning to look at both of us with pity in their eyes, like I'm in denial. It is my decision and I know Heidi best, but maybe I should be considering more what other people, who aren't so close to it, think? 

I know some people want to put their dog down while life is still good. I never completely believed in that, as we don't know how long life will continue to be good and I figure you can be cheating that dog out of a lot of "good" time. However, I don't want to wait until she's completely miserable either. I know no one can tell me when, but thanks for listening. I guess I need a sign.


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

Bridget, very tough decision. Your feelings are important to you. This is the only statement I cringed at. I have been where you are now, it stinks. If and when the dog can no longer get up on it's feet and makes a poo mess where it's lays, in my opinion it's not time. Two dogs GS went on their own, one had help.

This is the sign you're looking for. Sit on the floor and roll the ball back and forth - feed steak, chicken whatever is a treat. You've been a terrific mommy... SGCSG HH HNY.


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## Mister C (Jan 14, 2014)

You have my sympathy and support.

This decision is so very hard. I was in your shoes last November--same problems and very similar symptoms.

Like Heidi, many people pitied Maddie. My advice is to ignore them. As you said, only you know Heidi best. She is your dog. You are the one that will live with this decision the rest of your life. You will do what's necessary when the time is right. I have read enough of your posts to have confidence in that statement.

I was about to PTS in Spring after Maddie declined a bit more. I was asking friends their advice and some agreed it was time. Her quality life scores were right on the edge. 

I gave it a little more time and she bounced back. She had a pretty decent Summer and then declined again the Fall. 

If I had listened to the pity partiers she would have missed out on some good months. When the time finally came I didn't flinch. I cried like a baby but I did that final favor for my heart dog.

All the best to you and Heidi,

Michael


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Bridget, sorry for what you and Heidi are going through, I feel your pain. Treasure the memories, take lots of pictures! Deb


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

It is such a hard decision to make. 

Do you have a vet that will speak "off the cuff?" As in, if it were their dog?

I worked in ferret rescue for 14 years and had an amazing vet. He would flat out tell us ... yup, this ferret has lots of life left, just gotta get em over this bump, or sorry, but there really is nothing we can do and ferrets, as you know, decline so quickly (which they do, and I witnessed more than once), so we would PTS. It was NEVER an issue of money when I ran the rescue, it was all about quality of life. 

Sometimes you can just tell. I had one of my own personal ferrets, and he was older (almost 8) and one morning I went to get him and he just kind of opened his eyes, and sighed (he used to just FLY out of his hammock - even the day before - and scramble up to me). 

I took him out and give him cuddles, and ferretone, and just stared at him ... I swear he just looked right into my eyes and told me ... now is good. I brought him into the vet, and he actually died in my arms before we had time to do anything else. 

Another option is to have a very good friend go over your quality of life list with you, and maybe they can be more objective - you can still defend you choices, but they might (if necessary) be able to help you see things more clearly. 

I'm so sorry for what you are going through, it is a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE time to live through, 

BIG BIG HUGS to you


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I have a 15 year old small dog and totally know where you're coming from. Going by your quality of life scale, I don't think it's time. It can change at any moment and I would be sensitive to that, but just because her legs are bent isn't reason enough, nor are the looks of other people that don't live with her. If she still enjoys playing ball, eats and can still potty herself, then so what if her old bones creak a little.  

My old man has some degenerative changes in his hind legs, but is still able to go up and down the stairs to go potty, bounces around when it's time to eat and still loves his people. It doesn't matter that he's mostly blind and deaf and sleeps most of the time. He isn't Unhappy.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

For me the sign was when my pitbull cried when I treated her paw. She had lymphoma and was on doggy hospice but kept getting recurring infections in her paw. I was bathing and bandaging it and she whimpered. She had never cried, not through chemo, not ever. I knew that she wasn't going to get better and that the pain was breaking through the meds.

Sorry for writing so much. We are close to the 3rd anniversary of her death and I found an old gift tag with her name on it in the Xmas stuff yesterday and have been teary ever since.

Making the decision is difficult but you know your dog the best.
Felony, the pitbull, looked robust and pretty healthy and most people would not have guessed that it was her time.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I can't say I was given a sign. I only knew my Annie was getting worse and would never get better. She had DM. She had no muscle mass. Her hearing and sight were failing. She could not control her bowels. I don't know if embarrassment is the correct word, but it clearly stressed her to have accidents in the house. If I was not right there, she would clean up after herself. That was disgusting. Sometimes she would just fall over. I often had to help her to stand. Her mental clarity seemed to be failing as well. I kept hoping she would go in her sleep, but that so seldom happens. I knew that one day she would no longer be able to stand. I did not want to be in an emergency situation to have to make that decision. Annie was 14.5 years old. I have shared this sentiment many times, "It is better to put a dog to sleep two weeks too soon, than one day too late." 

I got to the point that I wasn't sure if I was keeping her here for me or for her. I hate to admit that sometimes caring for a sick, elderly dog was frustrating - cleaning up diarrhea in the wee hours of the morning, giving up my vacation, to stay home with her, not wanting her in my face, because she was eating poop. I did not like feeling that way about my beloved pet. I knew it wasn't her fault. But - I do think we need to consider how much we, as human beings can handle. The deciding factor for me, was my pending surgery. I was not going to be able to lift Annie and I was the one who was with her 24/7. 

When I spoke to the visiting vet, to make arrangements for Annie, in my home, she said, "I can check Annie out first. If we don't feel it is time, you can postpone putting her to sleep." The vet came out, took one look at Annie and said, "Oh, it's time!" I knew Annie had lived a good long time. I knew she didn't have much quality of life. As we let her go, I felt peace.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

Thank you. It is comforting to get other people's opinions, especially those who have been through this. The pain area is really the only one I am unsure about, but that is perhaps the most important one. Since they can't tell us how much pain they are experiencing, it makes it hard. I too have always watched for the dragging of the hind legs or messing and not being able to get up, but I suppose there are other things I haven't even thought of. I think somewhere in this GSD section there is a pain thread, so I should maybe take a look at that and hopefully it gives signs of extreme pain. It is encouraging that Heidi still wants to do things that require movement. Yet, she is often very hesitant to get off a chair or get up from laying down. It occurred to me as I was typing that what I am really looking for is a magic formula that will tell me exactly when is the right time, and there just isn't any. Thanks again for all messages.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I think you know her best and it doesn't matter what others think. It seems this is constantly on your mind and it weighs heavily on you making whatever time you have not as enjoyable. Enjoy her, spoil her and you will know when it's time.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I agree with llombardo's post I have a 14 year old GSD and have had people tell me its time-but I still see her enjoying life-at times and believe that I will know when its time-so will you


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## howlk9 (Jan 29, 2012)

We recently had to make this tough call with our dog Moses. Moses was only 6 years old, but had severe HD and an auto-immune issue. One of the things I learned is to pay attention to your dog when he thinks you are not paying attention. See how he is acting by himself and that will tell you a lot. Often dogs perk up when the owner is around and hide the pain. While at first glance I thought Moses was having many pretty good days, watching him when he was outside or from another room I saw he was really hurting. As hard as it was for us to do it, we knew we had to say goodbye. It is never easy. I wish you the best.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks. That is good advice. I sometimes fear she is keeping a good face for me.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

I am in exactly the same situation you are, my dear miss seraphina blue is in hospice care and I am on the brink of making the decision every day now. My criteria...can she eat and drink, can she stand on her own and navigate well enough to "assume the positions" for elimination, can I control her pain with medication, does she enjoy a bit of (roll the) ball time in the evening with her dad? The instant any one of those is not possible I will make the call. I gauge the pain issue by knowing the amount of meds I'm giving and watching and listening to her actions carefully. They have an enormous tolerance to pain, but as long as she is not crying out, can navigate, and has interest in rolling the ball, I know the meds are doing their job. The hardest for me is when everything else on my criteria list is there, but they cannot stand and navigate...and the decision has to be made when all the lights are on and somebody's still home, so to speak. But they are simply too large and too dignified to carry around or hand evacuate bowels and bladder. I find making the decision harder than the actual act itself...this one is particularly hard, in a lifetime of shepherd boys, she has been my only girl. I wish you peace of mind in making your decision...listen to NO one who would try and tell you when it's time, and no matter how hard it is, always put the needs of your girl above your own need to not let her go. Take care, many blessings to you and a big hug to her.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Bridget it is the hardest decesion to make. Heidi and Lucky are about the same age and Lucky back legs are the issue. From your posts Heidi still loves to go in the car has a great appetite. Your assessing her quality of life is a great way of looking at that decision. I understand the looks . I get them often from my SIL boyfriend. Lucky just saw our vet who was a neighbor and neither vet is even mentioning it.It sounds like she is enjoying herself and is still her happy self. Wishing you both a blessed holiday.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Bridget said:


> I know some people want to put their dog down while life is still good. I never completely believed in that, as we don't know how long life will continue to be good and I figure you can be cheating that dog out of a lot of "good" time. However, I don't want to wait until she's completely miserable either. I know no one can tell me when, but thanks for listening. I guess I need a sign.


First and foremost, I have a strong sense, whatever and whenever you choose to liberate her from her hardship it will be the proper decision. 

Second, when I look back on the 3 times I had to say "goodbye" to my dogs over the years, I believe I was on both sides of the "perfect" time in my timing of this toughest of decisions. I can say this much and this is all my personal feelings....I have stronger feelings regarding the timing of my decision if, in the final analysis, I felt I waited a bit too long...a wishing and wanting and hoping for an improvement in my failing dog's health. I believe in that instance I was being selfish and thinking more of my own needs rather than the dog's well being. I simply did not want to say goodbye and prayed for a miracle as I tried every option available via the vet world. I sure hope what I put that poor dog through, she will forgive me. Perhaps, this situation and my own selfishness taught me a wonderful lesson going forward. My last girl, when the time came, I believe I may have been on the earlier side of the curve but I promised myself...never again will I repeat what I had previously done...all the focus was on my ailing girl and my hopes and wishes were secondary..as hard as that was.

You wrote something which struck a chord with me....you mentioned the word "dignity"...this aspect helped me bring my DM girl to the end with a better feeling of my decision, it was not based on my selfishness but based on the nobility of a GSD and letting her exit this world with some dignity intact seemed fitting....thus I proceeded.

At the end of the day....waiting too long with the one dog has haunted me a bit over the years....maybe being a bit too early and wondering if you robbed the dog of some time on this earth is still something to wrestle with internally....but tons easier than waiting too long.

Everything I have said is my opinion and not meant to suggest anything about others and their choices during this toughest of times.

Take care,

SuperG


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