# Pup Menu/Feedback Please



## ShilohGSD (Oct 31, 2011)

*Weeks Worth of Puppy Food Ingredients*​8-12 pounds of meat (Chicken or Beef)
6 Eggs including shell
1-2 Cups of Carrots
1-2 Cups of Kale
4-6 Sweet Potatoes

I am not sure if I should do the above raw or cooked.....opinions?

I will most likely be mixing in kibble (Taste of the Wild) to the above ingredients at each meal.......opinions?

I will be getting the puppy from the breeder Dec 31, at 8 1/2 weeks old. We lost our last GSD to bloat at 8 years old. We are attempting to take as many precautions as possible, including dietary precautions.

Any feedback would be much appreciated!:gsdhead:
Thanks,
Tony


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

ShilohGSD said:


> *Weeks Worth of Puppy Food Ingredients*​8-12 pounds of meat (Chicken or Beef)
> 6 Eggs including shell
> 1-2 Cups of Carrots
> 1-2 Cups of Kale
> ...


Well after you mix that with kibble what do you figure the nutritional breakdown looks like?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I would NOT feed Taste of the Wild to a puppy. Or are you talking about one of the new TOTW puppy formulas?

I feed what the breeder is feeding at least for a little while. If I were going to change, I wouldn't go "hog wild" and feed all of that to a baby puppy. IMO that is a good way to cause problems.


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## ShilohGSD (Oct 31, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> I would NOT feed Taste of the Wild to a puppy. Or are you talking about one of the new TOTW puppy formulas?
> 
> I feed what the breeder is feeding at least for a little while. If I were going to change, I wouldn't go "hog wild" and feed all of that to a baby puppy. IMO that is a good way to cause problems.


Thanks for the reply.......I actually did a search on the forum and found tons of good info at my fingertips.....seems as though I have asked a question that has been asked many times.....I will be taking your above advice....

I think I have decided to stay with the food the breeder is feeding, for at least a while, and than I may decide to transition to something like Taste of The Wild Pacific Stream Puppy Formula. I do like the idea of a grain free diet. 
I think I am going to read up some more on the raw diet, as well as other home made recipes before attempting something I don't know enough about.

Thanks!
Tony


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I did not see the calciumhosphorus numbers on that diet but arent you going to throw those ratios way out of whack with what you have or did you calculate out that your diet does, in fact, provide ENOUGH calcium? Which I know you want lower for large breed puppy but they gotta make bones.....


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I wouldn't feed TOTW to a puppy. I personally am not a fan of it anyways, it's very low calorie and made by Diamond who doesn't have the best rep for quality control. (But many people do feed it with no issues, just a personal preference) I'd go with a decent food WITH grain, most grain free are too high in calc/phos to be appropriate for LBP. (Can cause them to grow too fast)

That seems like a lot even for a puppy to eat in a week. I wouldn't let the homemade/raw (also including treats!) make up more than 30% of the dogs calorie intake each day. I personally would just throw a chicken quarter to the dog a couple times a month, offer some raw meats a couple meals each week, maybe a turkey neck or pig foot here and there for a dental chew. (But you should also brush your puppies teeth! Bacteria that builds up in the mouth can take years off your dogs life and can even get into the blood stream and attack vital organs such as the heart, kidneys and liver!) If you want to add a raw food to each meal, go for green tripe. It's has the ideal calc/phos ratio, it has natural digestive enzymes and probiotics in it for digestion, it's full of beneficial omega 3 & 6 fatty acids for healthy skin & coat, plus your dog will go NUTS for it because of the smell!!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

ChancetheGSD, 

The OP said they are planning on feeding the TOTW Pacific Stream puppy formula. The "as fed" calcium is 1.3% in that formula.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Still not a fan of TOTW.  But to each his own. They're going to be feeding a lot to keep up with a GSDs growing body! Only time I've ever used it was because of the low calories, it was one of the only foods I could get that Zoey could eat a decent amount of it without starving. (Senior with a low thyroid and pretty non-existent metabolism so she needed something super low calorie...Like TOTW) Ended up switching to Avoderm Weight Management which was a little less calories and not a Diamond food. It might be ok for a lazy adult, but a puppy is going to need a huge amount of food. Large amounts of food can possibly increase the risk of bloat. JM2C.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

ShilohGSD said:


> Thanks for the reply.......I actually did a search on the forum and found tons of good info at my fingertips.....seems as though I have asked a question that has been asked many times.....I will be taking your above advice....
> 
> I think I have decided to stay with the food the breeder is feeding, for at least a while, and than I may decide to transition to something like Taste of The Wild Pacific Stream Puppy Formula. I do like the idea of a grain free diet.
> I think I am going to read up some more on the raw diet, as well as other home made recipes before attempting something I don't know enough about.
> ...


You can feed what you want but let me illustrate why this is a bad food. Fish foods, especially a price point food like this, are just naturally high in ash. That is the problem with low-end fish formulas. Fish have lots of little bones and scales that are really tough to remove. So, what someone like Diamond does with TOTW is make you believe that there is more fish protein than there really is by adding peas and pea protein to buy down the ash. Yes Salmon is number 1 but that is just optics. Fish meal follows but in the end I would guess about half the protein comes from peas and concentrated pea protein.

On a calorie basis this food is over 50% starch. So the grain-free label is just optics as well, because people have been conditioned to believe "grain-free" means low carbs. Don't be fooled that potatoes are better than things like brown rice, oats, barley and corn.

I am sure Diamond will do very well with this food because it hears many people say don't use the regular formula on puppies.

Tony, you live in PA and literally the best food on the market is at your door step.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

ChancetheGSD said:


> Still not a fan of TOTW.  But to each his own. They're going to be feeding a lot to keep up with a GSDs growing body! Only time I've ever used it was because of the low calories, it was one of the only foods I could get that Zoey could eat a decent amount of it without starving. (Senior with a low thyroid and pretty non-existent metabolism so she needed something super low calorie...Like TOTW) Ended up switching to Avoderm Weight Management which was a little less calories and not a Diamond food. It might be ok for a lazy adult, but a puppy is going to need a huge amount of food. Large amounts of food can possibly increase the risk of bloat. JM2C.


We all know you hate all things made by Diamond. 

When is the last time you heard of a puppy bloating?

I agree TOTW is low in calories but not all dogs have to eat a ton of it to maintain their weight.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

BlackGSD said:


> We all know you hate all things made by Diamond.
> 
> When is the last time you heard of a puppy bloating?
> 
> I agree TOTW is low in calories but not all dogs have to eat a ton of it to maintain their weight.


This particular formula is very low in protein from animal sources. Marketing at its best, and Diamond is not the only company that does this.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

BlackGSD said:


> When is the last time you heard of a puppy bloating?


Please tell me you don't actually think a puppy can't bloat!

And if they want to feed TOTW, that's totally fine. But that doesn't mean I can't express my dislike for the company and their quality control issues they've faced in the past.


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## ShilohGSD (Oct 31, 2011)

I have not committed to any one puppy/dog food. I am basically in the process of learning all I can before I make the choice. 

As I have mentioned, I will continue to feed what the breeder is feeding, and than adjust/transition the food as/if necessary. I am now considering:

*Annamaet ENCORE Dog Food*

*Guaranteed Analysis:*
Crude Protein, not less than.........25.00%
Crude Fat, not less than..............14.00%
Crude Fiber, not more than............4.00%
Moisture, not more than..............10.00%
*Calories Per Annamaet Products: (3.75 oz/cup)**
**Gross Energy Digestible Energy Metabolizable Energy
2031 kcal/lb 1911 kcal/lb 1767 kcal/lb
476 kcal/cup 448 kcal/cup 414 kcal/cup
* 
*Ingredient List:**
**Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Millet, Rolled Oats, Pearled Barley, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E)), Catfish Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Brewers Dried Yeast, Menhaden Oil (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E)), Flax Seed Meal, Carrot, Celery, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Lecithin, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, DL Methionine, L-Lysine, Potassium Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Propionic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Biotin, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Citric Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Potassium Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate.*


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

ShilohGSD said:


> I have not committed to any one puppy/dog food. I am basically in the process of learning all I can before I make the choice.
> 
> As I have mentioned, I will continue to feed what the breeder is feeding, and than adjust/transition the food as/if necessary. I am now considering:
> 
> ...



You read my mind. I have used Annamaet for 14 years. Encore is fine, so is Extra and Salcha.

That is what I meant you being in PA and having the best on the market at your doorstep.


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## ShilohGSD (Oct 31, 2011)

sable123 said:


> You read my mind. I have used Annamaet for 14 years. Encore is fine, so is Extra and Salcha.
> 
> That is what I meant you being in PA and having the best on the market at your doorstep.


LOL......with your clue I did my google research magic..... 

Thank you!
Tony


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

ShilohGSD said:


> LOL......with your clue I did my google research magic.....
> 
> Thank you!
> Tony


When your dog is full grown you can move up to Ultra. The man that owns that company is known globally and did much of the research at Penn that is still used today in feeding canine athletes.


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