# Orijen Regional Red: 2 Bags, 2 different foods



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I started Kira on Orijen Regional Red a few weeks ago. 

I just purchased my second bag, and I immediately noticed that it was NOT the same food as the first bag.

I'm not sure what quality control goes into making this stuff, but it is not the same food.

A few things:

1) Second bag is much lighter in color. The first bag was a darker brown, and the second bag looks more like a "corn based" food.

2) Odor: The first bag had a an apparent smell of fish upon opening the bag. I expected this, because the food does contain an abundance of fish.
Second bag, smells more like a regular dog food, with a corn based.

I'm not making any accusations, but I do intend to contact Orijen, and send them samples.
I'd hate to think that a name brand like Orijen, would have such a variance from one bag to another.


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## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

Anthony8858 said:


> I started Kira on Orijen Regional Red a few weeks ago.
> 
> I just purchased my second bag, and I immediately noticed that it was NOT the same food as the first bag.
> 
> ...


I am not familiar with that brand as I have never used it.
If your food is manufactured anywhere but the US, this could be the reason why you have variances. Check where the food is manufactured and does it meet the AAFCO guidlines if you are in the USA. Also, does the company oversee the production product or farm it out with no oversight with the process?


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## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

I've noticed this exact issue which a few of the foods I've tried. One of the main reasons that I went to Life's Abundance! I never have to worry about this now!


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

I have never noticed this although I do often switch between formulas so if there were batch differences it wouldn't really be a big deal in my house.

I also feed mainly Acana but I have fed Orijen also.


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

Email them and ask. I've found that they are quite responsive to questions. Acana and Origen are produced in Alberta, Canada, locally sourced ingredients, no co-packers. I've used Acana "Lamb and Apple" and "Pacifica" for a couple of years for my allergic boy with excellent results.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I remember reading on their site about how the food can vary because it IS regional and they use what is in abundance at that time, and that changes. 
I would for sure check it out and email them.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> I remember reading on their site about how the food can vary because it IS regional and they use what is in abundance at that time, and that changes.
> I would for sure check it out and email them.


If that's the case, them I'm not too happy.

When I go into the store, if I didn't make a lot of money this month, the cost doesn't vary. I may not have an abundance of funds. Do I give them less?
I believe in quality control, especially when you're paying top dollar.

Having an abundance of one food item over another, IMO, can drastically alter what it is we pay for on the label.

The label does NOT change to reflect the changes in ingredients.

Yes, I'm grumpy today


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

jprice103 said:


> I've noticed this exact issue which a few of the foods I've tried. One of the main reasons that I went to Life's Abundance! I never have to worry about this now!


Your "Life's abundance" caught my attention.

It looks like a nice food.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Quinnsmom said:


> Email them and ask. I've found that they are quite responsive to questions. Acana and Origen are produced in Alberta, Canada, locally sourced ingredients, no co-packers. I've used Acana "Lamb and Apple" and "Pacifica" for a couple of years for my allergic boy with excellent results.


I agree, they are quick to respond to questions. Alice has been on Regional Red now for about nine months and is doing great on it. I worried about the protein content at first ( a bit on the high side for a dog "with no job") but it has really been working good with her ataxia.
I have also noticed that both dogs have good stools. 
If they change the source of their meat products it hasn't affected my dog in anyway. It's still processed within house so to speak. (not offshore)
I still put a tablespoon of plain yogurt for her ears and I really don't know if I need to put yogurt in. She just likes her "ice cream" ....so I add it.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I have never heard that they change the food, and they are every bit as good as a US based company for quality. I have fed Origen or Acana for years...Once they did change the formula and I called since the dogs reacted differently, and they sent 3 large bags free. The dogs got looser stool, and when i questioned them they sent the bags immediately. Sometiems the bags are no langer vacuum packed adn I would wonder if there was a hole in the bag and it had started spoiling. I always ensure my bags are vacuum packed, I don't mind if they get a small hole on my way home and loose the vacuum since I dump it into a container and we go through it quickly, contact them and I know they will replace it. And no I don't work for them or have any affiliations


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think the bags are treated so the food last longer
so it's better to keep the food in the bag. place
the open bag in the container. check with Orijen
to find out about the bag.



trudy said:


> I have never heard that they change the food, and they are every bit as good as a US based company for quality. I have fed Origen or Acana for years...Once they did change the formula and I called since the dogs reacted differently, and they sent 3 large bags free. The dogs got looser stool, and when i questioned them they sent the bags immediately. Sometiems the bags are no langer vacuum packed adn I would wonder if there was a hole in the bag and it had started spoiling. I always ensure my bags are vacuum packed, I don't mind if they get a small hole on my way home and loose the vacuum
> 
> >>>> since I dump it into a container<<<<
> 
> and we go through it quickly, contact them and I know they will replace it. And no I don't work for them or have any affiliations


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think Regional Red is a type with different
formulas and flavors. i bought a bag yesterday
and it's 75%-25%-0. the mix is wild boar, lamb,
pork and bison (Regional Red meat formula).
check your labels.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i think Regional Red is a type with different
> formulas and flavors. i bought a bag yesterday
> and it's 75%-25%-0. the mix is wild boar, lamb,
> pork and bison (Regional Red meat formula).
> check your labels.


Yes, it's the same Regional Red. Same bag. I still had the old bag on top of the trash, so I checked to be certain.
No, it should NOT vary from one bag to another.

As I expected, Kira had loose stools tonight.

I have no doubts that this is NOT the same kibble.

I intend to contact Orijen i the morning.


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## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> Your "Life's abundance" caught my attention.
> 
> It looks like a nice food.


It is an awesome food! Not mass produced....when you get it, it is never older than 6 weeks old! It is made with only human grade ingredients and has never had a recall! Cheyenne is a very picky eater, and this is the first food (and I've tried many top quality foods) that she will eat without me having to add anything to it. And because of the quality you feed less!


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## kam214 (Mar 3, 2012)

I did not think RR contained any fish...but you said yours smelled fishy?

I honestly think it sounds like one of their other formulas was mixed up and put in a RR bag? 

I know my Orijen LBP also smells fishy. Just bought first bag of RR but have not opened it yet to see/smell it.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

*UPDATE*

I've decided NOT to make a big deal out of this. I will contact Orijen, and let them know what I've stumbled upon, but have no intention of switching her off this food.
The physical changes in her coat alone, are very indicative of the quality of this food.
Her stools have stabilized, no gas, no intestinal distress whatsoever, and her energy level is super high.

I'm staying with the orijen.

Also... The Orijen RR contains LOADS of fish.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

It contains 42% fat, my dog can't tolerate that.
"
CALORIE CONTENT AND DISTRIBUTION

The metabolizable energy of ORIJEN REGIONAL RED is 4010 kcal/kg or 480 kcal per 250ml cup (120g).

The calories in ORIJEN are distributed to support peak health with 36% from protein, 22% from fruits and vegetables, and 42% from fat.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Did you check the sell-by date? Maybe one bag was expired.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

PaddyD said:


> It contains 42% fat, my dog can't tolerate that.
> "
> CALORIE CONTENT AND DISTRIBUTION
> 
> ...


I isn't 42% fat! What they are saying is that 42% of the CALORIES come from fat. The kibble itself is 18%(min) fat.


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> I remember reading on their site about how the food can vary because it IS regional and they use what is in abundance at that time, and that changes.
> I would for sure check it out and email them.





Anthony8858 said:


> If that's the case, them I'm not too happy.
> 
> When I go into the store, if I didn't make a lot of money this month, the cost doesn't vary. I may not have an abundance of funds. Do I give them less?
> I believe in quality control, especially when you're paying top dollar.
> ...


This does not mean that they are changing the ratio of what is in the bag but that the source may change or say they get more of one type of fish over another for example and therefore each batch is going to be slightly different. I don't think the implication is that they would substitute meat for potato or anything.

When you are dealing with fresh meat vs. a meat meal I would definitely expect to see more variation between batches but I wouldn't consider that variation bad.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

BlackGSD said:


> I isn't 42% fat! What they are saying is that 42% of the CALORIES come from fat. The kibble itself is 18%(min) fat.


Thanks for the correction.
Here are the contents.
INGREDIENTS
Fresh deboned wild boar*, fresh deboned lamb*, fresh beef liver*, fresh deboned pork*, lamb meal, peas, salmon meal, russet potato, herring meal, fresh whole eggs*, fresh deboned bison*, potato starch, fresh deboned salmon*, pacific whitefish meal, fresh deboned walleye*, salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, dried organic kelp, pumpkin, chicory root, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, blueberries, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Clyde said:


> This does not mean that they are changing the ratio of what is in the bag but that the source may change or say they get more of one type of fish over another for example and therefore each batch is going to be slightly different. I don't think the implication is that they would substitute meat for potato or anything.
> 
> When you are dealing with fresh meat vs. a meat meal I would definitely expect to see more variation between batches but I wouldn't consider that variation bad.


Very logical.

Regardless, I'm sold on this stuff. 
My dog looks incredible, and she loves it.

It's been a while since she would stand next to her bowl, and do spins at feeding time.
This food excites her.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Clyde said:


> This does not mean that they are changing the ratio of what is in the bag but that the source may change or say they get more of one type of fish over another for example and therefore each batch is going to be slightly different. I don't think the implication is that they would substitute meat for potato or anything.
> 
> When you are dealing with fresh meat vs. a meat meal I would definitely expect to see more variation between batches but I wouldn't consider that variation bad.


Yes, this is what I meant.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Well, I think if they chopped up, dried and kibbled 100 different humans into 100 different bags that all bag contents would not look the same but they would all be 100% human.


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## tomtommy (Feb 26, 2012)

Before I switched, I asked my trusted 3rd generation pet store owner about Orijen and he said the only dogs that seem to do well on it are the dogs on the internet...then I saw the new Acana foods use GMO apples it looks like, but maybe it is a coincidence.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> Well, I think if they chopped up, dried and kibbled 100 different humans into 100 different bags that all bag contents would not look the same but they would all be 100% human.


 LOL! Thanks for that visual.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Orijen did just recently change their packaging which I noticed last week when I went to pick up Leyna's food. I do, however, always make sure she gets a bag that has been vacuum sealed. Like another poster stated, they can get small holes during shipment and the vacuum seal will go away. Once air touches the food, the color lightens up considerably. Leyna was on the RR but now eats the 6 fish.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

tomtommy said:


> Before I switched, I asked my trusted 3rd generation pet store owner about Orijen and he said the only dogs that seem to do well on it are the dogs on the internet...then I saw the new Acana foods use GMO apples it looks like, but maybe it is a coincidence.


Most pet stores are paid a commission from different food companies to sell their foods. I choose to do my own research and ask from people with experience than to trust a pet store's opinion.


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## tomtommy (Feb 26, 2012)

jaggirl47 said:


> Most pet stores are paid a commission from different food companies to sell their foods. I choose to do my own research and ask from people with experience than to trust a pet store's opinion.


Ummmm Ummmm Ummmm he also sells it. GMO Apples?? I thought the stuff was supposed to be regional ingredients.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Where exactly did you see that GMO apples are being used?


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Orijen Ingredients : Dog food - Orijen, World leading pet food, high protein, completely grain free, dog and cat food now available online in NZ. Highest premium meat inclusion, highest 6 star ranking.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

So where does that say those apples are GMO?

Also, here's an interesting article on GE crops, specifically apples:

http://scienceblogs.com/tomorrowstable/2011/04/forbidden_fruit_the_red_red_ap.php


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

This is what the link says concerning GMO products:

*ALSO WHAT YOU WON’T FIND IN ORIJEN ...*
_Genetically Modified (GMO) Ingredients_


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Yes, you and I are preaching the same thing.  

But the above article also talks about how GE apples ain't necessarily a bad thing...


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Here's a quick Update:

I called the 800 number on the packaging. I explained my concern, and she was very accommodating. She asked if my dog had gotten ill, or showed any signs of intestinal distress. She explained that packaging varies from season to season, and showed me the packaging date on the package. OK.
She was even nicer when she sent me a coupon for a free 30lb bag of any Orijen food.

I'm happy. 

FWIW..... I just bought a new 5 lb bag to hold me over. Opened it, and it was "normal"

Here's a picture of the two kibbles. The lighter one is from the bag in question. The darker is what I've know the kibble to be.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

When you go to get your new big bag, CHECK THE DATE, make sure it DOESN'T match the current big bag. If you don't, you could easily get another bag just like the last one.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> When you go to get your new big bag, CHECK THE DATE, make sure it DOESN'T match the current big bag. If you don't, you could easily get another bag just like the last one.


Yes, I did do that.

The lighter kibble was packaged on Oct 5th 2011

The darker kibble was packaged on June 28th 2011.

Not sure what to make of it, but I guess there's more of an abundance of something more then something else.

Just hoping it doesn't have any effect on the nutritional balance.


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## kam214 (Mar 3, 2012)

Have you still been feeding her the lighter colored one or did you exchange it? All is well with your girl?


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

Doesnt Orijens website address this in the faq?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

kam214 said:


> Have you still been feeding her the lighter colored one or did you exchange it? All is well with your girl?


Yes, she ate the whole bag, and she's fine. She did have some loose stools for a day. But recovered quickly.
HOWEVER, I read YOUR other thread, and I see that your kibble was greeen and crumbled. That would concern me.

I called Orijen, and theyre sending me a coupon for a free bag of 30 pound Orijen of my choice.

The number is on the bag.


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

jaggirl47 said:


> Most pet stores are paid a commission from different food companies to sell their foods. I choose to do my own research and ask from people with experience than to trust a pet store's opinion.


Of course pet stores make a profit but not sure what you mean by a commission. I don't see why a company would add a commission in addition to the profit the store makes on the mark up. And this is the same across all the foods they sell so no reason to push one food over another. In fact from a stores perspective it is best to not have customers all on the same brand. The store I work at Orijen and Acana sell themselves and they are the number one seller in kibble. In fact I have never talked to anyone about Orijen unless they come in looking for it.

I have my favourite foods that I recommend over others but this is based on ingredients, customer feedback and the current customers needs. I don`t think our store is that different from most. I sometimes have had to go looking for something at another pet store and have found the staff (often the owners to be very knowledgeable and helpful). Chain stores may be a whole different story but I like to support small business types.


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## Chuckycheese (Jul 14, 2012)

*Same thing happened to me*



Anthony8858 said:


> I started Kira on Orijen Regional Red a few weeks ago.
> 
> I just purchased my second bag, and I immediately noticed that it was NOT the same food as the first bag.
> 
> ...


__________________________________________________________

My dog is not pure German Shepherd but Mix of G.Shepherd . Still can I join this forum?

Anyway, I always buy ACANA Pacifica for my dog. In the past I bought at my local store and some online store. Those are all same inside but no Vacuum packing.

Then, this time I purchased it via another online store.
It was Vacuum packing. Since I've never received the Vacuum one, I was curious. However, when I opened the bag, It was not exactly same .

* The color was much lighter and it was like corn based as Anthony8858 described.
* No smell Fish as before. As you know, ACANA Pacifica is FISH base and it had smelly as Fish (My past bags had really smell fish).

It was very different look and smell.

I contacted the online company and the support offered refund. I asked how I can return this bag but they told I should donate it to local animal shelter. However, I can't donate it since I really don't know what is this, where this come from and if something wrong.

If something wrong to the Dogs in shelter, I can't have any responsibility.

Acana recently changed any parts for PACIFICA?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Yes, Acana has recently changed all the grain free formulas there is a thread on that.
Everything I have purchsed has been vacuum packed though.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/diet-nutrition/184900-new-acana-formulas-champion-site.html


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## Chuckycheese (Jul 14, 2012)

*The Package design and description is same as before*



jocoyn said:


> Yes, Acana has recently changed all the grain free formulas there is a thread on that.
> Everything I have purchsed has been vacuum packed though.
> l


Thank you. However, the Link didn't go the Champion product, the Manufacture's site.
I checked the Manufacturer's site myself. It didn't say anything about changing for PACIFICA.

The 60, 40, 0 % is exactly same as before and the kind of fishes are same as Pacific Salmon, Wild Pacific Herring and Wild Pacific Flounder. 60 % Fish, 40% Fruit & Vege and 0% Grain. It's same as before.

But the Color and smell are different. It looks like contain Grain and NO Fish smell.


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## lzver (Feb 9, 2012)

As per the link that Nancy provided, the formula for the Acana Regionals were changed recently.

As proof, Jake was doing well on Acana Pacifica for 2 months and the last bag I got was the new formula. Within 3 days, he had loose stools again.

I'm tired of relying on the pet food industry. With recalls and formula changes, I'm fed up.

I've started making my own homemade food. Next week we have an appointment with a holistic vet. I want to consult with them to ensure we are feeding Jake a balanced diet.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Both of those links DID go directly to Champion Petfoods sites for ACANA and I just reverified they are correct. The old site and the new site. 

If your bag is 29.7lbs it is the old forumla. If it is, I think, 28.3 it is the new formula. There is no denying they changed their forumlas --it is up to the consumer to decide whether or not they find these changes to be beneficial.

60% refers to the amount of meat products by weight. The percent protein includes the contribution by the peas to total protein as well.

By moving the meat ahead of meat meal in the formulas, that means more of that 60% contrubution by "meats" is water than it was before. Meat is, I understand about, 55% water, meat meal about 10%. So one can assume that the food has less meat protein in it and more pea protein (To me the addition of three legumes instead of one is nothing more than ingredient splitting ). I have no intention of paying top dollar for peas, lentils, and feild beans, which I can buy quite cheaply at the Indian Grocer - and peas from Canada at that.

I had just settled on buying the product but when the company never answered my email on neither the upper limit of calcium in the new formulations (as they did for Orijen) nor my question on how much of the proten comes from peas, so I decided to decline - If I had recieved an answser from the company, I may have reconsidered that decision.

I will email them again, as I may consider Orijen but it hinges on whether or not I get a response.


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## Chuckycheese (Jul 14, 2012)

*Acana new Formula?*

Thank you and I found the Link. 

Meanwhile I received e-mail from the company as below for the different color and smell which I purchased via online recently.
The agent seems copy the manual provided by the company.

"Occasionally, variation may be seen between individual lots, or even the same bag, of ORIJEN and ACANA pet foods. The primary reason for these potential differences is because our brands are made with locally grown and produced ingredients, there will naturally be some variation in the finished product. Furthermore, ORIJEN and ACANA foods are made in small batches to ensure freshness unlike the typical mass-produced pet foods. This can be likened to the loaves of bread made at an artisan bakery – slightly different color and shape, but fresh and of the highest quality – in contrast to those seen at the grocery store. These are always made the same because all ingredients are identical time after time. Perhaps the factor that best illustrates this is the fact that regionally grown and produced ingredients are used in small batches that may vary from time to time. For example, the fresh chicken used might be largely dark thigh meat one day and light breast meat the next. In addition to the obvious color variation that this would introduce, there are also different moisture contents between light and dark meats, further affecting both size, shape, smell, and color to some extent.

The look of ORIJEN and ACANA packaging can vary from bag to bag, leading to questions about vacuum packaging. To clarify, our bags are not vacuum sealed; we use an air evacuation process to remove much of the air from our bags. The ORIJEN and ACANA foil bags are impermeable to oxygen transfer, air cannot get in or out of the bag. The tightness of our packaging can be effected by air pressure and temperature. 

As you move from a higher to a lower altitude, gas compresses due to the larger air mass above it and atmospheric pressure increasing. The opposite is true for gas at higher altitudes; it expands at higher altitudes due to smaller air mass and atmospheric pressure decreasing. When warm air cools it takes up less space, our bags are filled inside our warm packaging area, the bag may compress after packaging because of cooler temperatures once they leave the packing area".


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## NWHeather (Oct 29, 2010)

I have noticed that as well (change in color of food, as well as food shape).
I don't like that. I hate feeding kibble in the first place, but I expect the food to be consistent. Especially with a breed that can have a sensitive GI system.

I've been thinking of switching back to Fromm Surf & Turf. (The only reason I switched to Orijen was because I could find it in more stores), & the store I get the Fromm from is a farther drive.
I will be switching back to Fromm after my next bag of Orijen.


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