# GSD won't stop pulling on leash/ has no manners in public



## Kay

My pup is 11 mths old. She's a good dog in almost every way, except when it comes for going for walks in public. We leave the house to walk down the street and she pulls nonstop. She chokes herself, but doesn't stop. If she sees a dog and she'll become so focused on it, and I become invisible. I can wave food in front of her, I can tell her to 'watch me', I've tried a pinch collar, one of those halti things, corrections, turning and walking the other way, stopping and walking backwards... practically anything I can think of except hitting her - which I'd never do!

This has been a constant problem with her, ever since she was small. It hasn't improved, and has only become more annoying since she is now 65lbs and very strong.

The weirdest part about this is that I'm training her for competitive obedience. When she's at class or we're just working outside, she is perfect. Her heeling is wonderful, she focuses on me like a hawk, she doesn't care about the other dogs there. She loves to work! Maybe it's just because she is used to the class environment.... but as we leave class she'll drag me out the door unless I hold her leash tight.

She is always so full of energy and it's been getting worse lately. I always run her or take her to the dog park everyday. Her focus on me is fading. For example, I went to an obedience fun match the other day, and it was like she had ADD. She kept pulling and I had to drag her into the ring. She worked fine once in the ring, but was bouncing around like a psycho after and dragged me out when we were done. The second time we went in she decided that I didn't exist anymore and actually RAN OUT of the ring.

I'm not sure what to do. At home, I am the boss and there is no doubt about it (she is a very submissive dog), but the second we leave the house she becomes a different dog.

I need suggestions or advice please! I adore this dog and don't want to have to give up obedience. She's becoming very frustrating to deal with and I'm having a tough time remaining positive.


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## Cassidy's Mom

If you've been able to teach her to heel at home and in class, you should be able to teach her to do it anywhere! Obviously, something is different about your walks - figure that out and it should be an easy fix. She has the skills, it's just a different environment.


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## codmaster

Sounds like a typical GSD puppy - sometimes more interested in the world around her than they are in their owner right at the moment.

I had (and still do to some degree) the same problem with our male GSD. You need to work and work and work on getting their attention(and keeping it!).

Look up the threads on "Focus" and "attention" and see if that will help.

It won't be immediate but it will come with practice. And you can work your dog with GRADUALLY increasing levels of distractions!


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## MaggieRoseLee

Are you using a training collar on your walks? Whether a prong collar, or a Halti head collar or Gentle Leader Harness.... those would all help.


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## koda00

codmaster said:


> Sounds like a typical GSD puppy - sometimes more interested in the world around her than they are in their owner right at the moment.
> 
> I had (and still do to some degree) the same problem with our male GSD. You need to work and work and work on getting their attention(and keeping it!).
> 
> Look up the threads on "Focus" and "attention" and see if that will help.
> 
> It won't be immediate but it will come with practice. And you can work your dog with GRADUALLY increasing levels of distractions!


I just had to go thru this w/my 11 month old. We have been in obedience since last June... completing different levels. We went on break at xmas for about 3 weeks. and wham! i lost his "attention" and "focus" and he became more attached to me re: not staying, in a sit/stay. had a private lesson to concentrate on that and the attention. after about a week.. he's back! So you might have to revert back to basic obed. like i did. Good luck


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## kidkhmer

I wrote a little story here ;

Karma ; Fledgling border guard | the phnom pen

My dog does not pull so much as "walk strongly" and yes.....when she sees other dogs she goes into exocet mode.

HOWEVER

Dave from Hausleisa directed me back to Tab289's youtube videos ( they are ALL brilliant ) and there is one or two there about loose leash walking that I can highly recommend over my stupid old skool yanking method  . Karma was actually responding to that but its unnecessary and I feared after watching the Tab289 video she might start associating the lead with unpleasantness.

For a week every afternoon I have been walking Karma around the house and yard in a circuit ( mixing it up so she does not get too robotic about it ). From day one if she started to get ahead of me, I stopped and simply stood still. Then with a "lets go" we start again and as soon as she looks at me I click and reward. It only took a couple of days before she was walking perfectly and looking at me repeatedly and getting rewarded !Then.....in the middle of this I also took up Tab289s advice regards teaching a formal HEEL as a very important part of the leash walking process . When the dog gets ahead of you, his advice is to "reset" the walk by calling the dog back to the heel position and then starting again.
By setting up a chair in a corner as Tab289 does, Karma nailed the heel with frightening speed ! Like......in 10 minutes. So I am contuining the daily heel training and leash walking INSIDE our compound. Right now she is having her first heat cycle so I can't take her outside for fear of a gang rape by mongrel street dogs :help: but I am hoping that all the inside training will make SOME difference by the time she can go out again.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Kay said:


> This has been a constant problem with her, ever since she was small. It hasn't improved, and has only become more annoying since she is now 65lbs and very strong.


This tells me that you haven't approached "going for a walk" the same way you've approached training her to compete in obedience in her classes. It's not going to get better by itself - as you said it's getting worse now that she's big and strong and can pull even harder. Prior to Halo I never had a dog that walked all that well on leash because we always drove our dogs to an off leash park for play and exercise rather than doing leash walks. Keefer is now good on leash, (he's 5-1/2), but it was tough for awhile because I had failed to put the work in when he was still young and small enough that it would have been easy. But if I can teach HIM, you can teach HER! Since he was already a full grown 80 pound dog by the time I started, I did use a prong collar on him so I could control him if he lunged, and you might need to do that too. Prior to that, I'd never even owned a prong collar. 

Now with Halo, I was bound and determined to teach her to walk nicely on leash from the very beginning. I recognized the mistake I'd made with Keef, and I was not going to repeat it. It took a lot of time, patience, and persistence, but she walks beautifully on leash, and it's a joy to take her for nice long walks. But in order to do that I had to completely abandon the idea of "going for a walk" in favor of training proper leash skills. That meant that some days we spent 20 minutes walking back and forth over the same ground over and over and over and over..... Very frustrating, but she soon learned that pulling did not get her where she wanted to go, and in fact, she often got even FURTHER AWAY! :wild:

I think you're right, that she does recognize class as "training" and walks are "not training", so you need to turn that around. Halo is very good at recognizing training too, we've been working with an excellent private trainer (business partner of Michael Ellis), and she made that comment about Halo the first time she saw her. So I made _every_ walk a training walk. 



> For example, I went to an obedience fun match the other day, and it was like she had ADD. She kept pulling and I had to drag her into the ring. She worked fine once in the ring, but was bouncing around like a psycho after and dragged me out when we were done. The second time we went in she decided that I didn't exist anymore and actually RAN OUT of the ring.


How about taking her to a fun match and not going in the ring at all? Use it as a training opportunity by working with her in that highly arousing environment, at whatever distance from the fun that you can continue to engage her.


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## beowolf

Kay said:


> My pup is 11 mths old. She's a good dog in almost every way, except when it comes for going for walks in public. We leave the house to walk down the street and she pulls nonstop. She chokes herself, but doesn't stop. If she sees a dog and she'll become so focused on it, and I become invisible. I can wave food in front of her, I can tell her to 'watch me', I've tried a pinch collar, one of those halti things, corrections, turning and walking the other way, stopping and walking backwards... practically anything I can think of except hitting her - which I'd never do!
> 
> This has been a constant problem with her, ever since she was small. It hasn't improved, and has only become more annoying since she is now 65lbs and very strong.
> 
> The weirdest part about this is that I'm training her for competitive obedience. When she's at class or we're just working outside, she is perfect. Her heeling is wonderful, she focuses on me like a hawk, she doesn't care about the other dogs there. She loves to work! Maybe it's just because she is used to the class environment.... but as we leave class she'll drag me out the door unless I hold her leash tight.
> 
> She is always so full of energy and it's been getting worse lately. I always run her or take her to the dog park everyday. Her focus on me is fading. For example, I went to an obedience fun match the other day, and it was like she had ADD. She kept pulling and I had to drag her into the ring. She worked fine once in the ring, but was bouncing around like a psycho after and dragged me out when we were done. The second time we went in she decided that I didn't exist anymore and actually RAN OUT of the ring.
> 
> I'm not sure what to do. At home, I am the boss and there is no doubt about it (she is a very submissive dog), but the second we leave the house she becomes a different dog.
> 
> I need suggestions or advice please! I adore this dog and don't want to have to give up obedience. She's becoming very frustrating to deal with and I'm having a tough time remaining positive.


I had the same problem with my dog and when nothing was working I resorted to an old fashioned choke chain and it's worked wonders. I keep him in a heel position right beside me as we walk and the moment he wants to step ahead I just pull on the choke and command him to heel. We've made tremendous progress at walking without the all the pulling and I have to use the choke less as the walk progresses. 

My dog was a real bad puller...when he was a small pup I used to tie him to heavy objects in the yard that he would eventually pull around, then I'd use a heavier one so he's really strong and even though I'm 170 and in good physical shape, nightly walks with this caused tendinitis in my hand because he's built like a tank so I really had no choice but to resort to the choke chain and I must say my dog responds to it and the walks are much more enjoyable without all the pulling. He pulled on the leash so hard one time I had to correct him by literally yanking him hard enough to lift his front feet off the ground, meanwhile some lady in the passenger seat of a passing car gave me a dirty look like I was being mean but when you have a near 100 pound German Shepherd tugging on a leash it's like playing tug of war against two guys my size, so the choke chain has really been a blessing for us.


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## doggiedad

train and socialize everyday, several times a day.
find a trainer (private lessons) or a class. at
11 months old i think your dog should be heeling
on either side, on or off leash. why wasn't this problem
corrected sooner????


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## London's Mom

The one and only thing that worked with curbing London's pulling was the Gentle Leader. My trainer highly recommended it and I still use it on occassion when I am in a highly stimulating situation. 

Although, after using the Gentle Leader for a good year, he really has learned not to drag me around. Plus, it does not damage his trachea, which I understand the choke collar can do when a dog is a puller.


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## jakeandrenee

I agree with treating a loose leash walk like any other training. A properly fitted prong may work wonders...


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## cassadee7

Is there a treat she DOES care about, like a favorite treat? Steak bits or something? I'd say take her for a walk twice a day before she has her meals, bring the treats, and use those to get her attention. Not sure if that would work since you said she doesn't care about food, but maybe if it is a high value treat (for Saber this is NB rolls duck & potato, or cubed chicken) and she is hungry, she might care!

When Saber starts to pull I stop walking. As soon as there is slack in the lead I start again. Over and over. If it is a dog or something distracting her I say "watch" and wave food in her face until she looks at me. Then she heels and stares waiting for more food. Another thing is just practice. I walk her 2-3x a day (except when I have the flu, like now) and always, always expect her to walk beside me in a loose heel on my left, NOT ahead of me or behind me. The only exception is when we are in a wide grassy area and I let her wander more loosely. But she knows to stay next to me on paths and sidewalks because that is all I allow.


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## Kay

I have a pinch collar for her but she doesn't care about it. She responds to it to a certain extent (when training), and she's crazy for food (especially dried liver or lung) so that also works at times, but she gets so excited about being out in public that it doesn't matter to her, and she will pull regardless with her pinch on.

I mean, the food will distract her for a few seconds, but then her focus is gone. And if I don't have the food, she doesn't care. 

I really like the idea of just taking her to fun matches without competing. I socialized her like crazy when she was young (dog parks, petstores, any public space EVERY DAY) and she has always been like this. None of this has had an impact, but I'm going to keep trying it. It's frustrating, but I'm sure if I'm patient and keep working her in an arousing environment (such as at a fun match) it will eventually make a difference. We went to a dog show this weekend (for the exposure) and she was insane at first but eventually settled. She doesn't bark or anything, she's just very distracted by everything going on. I hope this helps, otherwise I may look into getting a private trainer. Thanks to everybody for the suggestions!



Also, that comment about "why wasn't this corrected sooner???" was a little uncalled for. If you even bothered to read my first post you would have seen that I've tried many things and have taken her to classes. I'm also trying now by asking other dog owners here. Not really a helpful post at all.


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## codmaster

Kay said:


> ............
> Also, that comment about "why wasn't this corrected sooner???" was a little uncalled for. If you even bothered to read my first post you would have seen that I've tried many things and have taken her to classes. I'm also trying now by asking other dog owners here. Not really a helpful post at all.


Kay,


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## codmaster

Whoops ! hit the darn Enter key way to soon.

Try not to take the responses too personally (I know it is very hard not to do so sometimes but remember that the majority of folks here really do want to help)! And it is very obvious that you have been and continue to try very hard with your dog! I for one know all about an inattentive, very curious as to what is going on around him type of dog. The one we have now (Baron, a 3 yo male GSD) is the most curious dog we have ever owned (6/7 past GSD's) and is a real test to get and esp. to keep his attention.

One thing that seems to help is requiring him to look at me when we are doing things - like when he comes out of his crate or in and out of the house and car, etc. Each place, I tell him to "Wait" and he is not allowed to move till I say "OK" and I don't say that till he looks right into my eyes for a varying amount of time ( usually feom 3-10+ seconds). This seems to have helped with his attention a great deal.


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## Salix

*Advocate of the Prong Collar*

I use a prong collar. It was by our trainer's recommendation after she identified excessive pulling. It has been one of the most invaluable decisions I have ever made. Prior to using the prong collar, I had used the ordinary collar, the harness (which is a huge mistake as dogs pull more, made worse when started young), the pinch collar (which did NOTHING) and last and most effective, the prong collar. 

I have learned to use the prong collar firmly but with slight movements. My young GSD is only 6 months but big boned and has been mistaken for being a year old. He learned to use his weight and size at an early age. This led to the prong collar suggestion early on and we walk beautifully with it. Without the prong collar, he is still prone to pulling. The trainer gently informed me that it is very common for pinch collars to have very little effect on GSDs (simply due to their physiology - muscled necks and thick coats). My last alternative might have been the Halti but it didn't get that far. I am far more comfortable with the prong collar than encumbering his face although I know that the Halti is also extremely effective. 

It was like night and day without the prong collar and then with it. Don't snap or pull with the prong collar like you would with an ordinary collar or a pinch collar. Swift, firm but slight movements will usually arrive at the desired result which is increased attentiveness and great walking and little pulling. My GSD will still pull in excitement if he really needs to void/go potty or if he sees other dogs and wants to play. Again, a gentle snap is all that's required. 

I hope that helps. Your dog needs both your loving arms to be a great caregiver! Don't break them just walking with your GSD.


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## Sunstreaked

Yowza! This is why I love this forum so much! We're going through the same thing and all these suggestions are wonderful! 

This is one of my biggest deals. I never had a dog who pulled so hard and who was so strong already! Glad to have some concrete things to do to try and combat this.

Kay, I'm really interested how things work out for you and which methods from here really make a difference.


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## valreegrl

Read Control Unleashed.
You need to build confidence in an uncomfortable environment. It sounds like, for whatever reason, your dog is associating your every day walks with anxiousness. She is calm and comfortable in the training environment, now you need to build that same concept during your every day walks. And since she already understands what you are asking for she will get it quickly. You just need a few tools to get you there and and McDevitt book will definitely help.

As for a prong, I would skip it. You don't want to treat anxious nervous behavior with negative reinforcement. Besides the fact that you are training for advanced obedience and a prong is not allowed. Ending up with a cross-over dog (prong to flat collar) is not fun and will mean more work for you in the end.


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## plusdoegsd

little dogs little problems big dogs big problems train early and often.......no problems


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## mssandslinger

deff get the gentle leader! works wonders for my non stop pullers!


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## JuliePgh

mssandslinger said:


> deff get the gentle leader! works wonders for my non stop pullers!


Gentle leader won't necessarily work with a strong puller... I had used the gentle leader from 3 months on, and while it seemed to work for a few weeks, my dog learned very quickly that she could put up with the "pain' of pulling against the gentle leader and continue pulling. She dog pulled so hard that over time the gentle leader cut into her face to the point of bleeding (and I had already added mole skin to a wider than usual gentle leader) to give more padding against her face. I had to go to the prong collar at 7 months when I couldn't control her anymore. The prong collar didn't solve the pulling, but gave me more control over her and helped me 'communicate' with her better. I think on the flat collar (and the gentle leader) there is little or no communication that occurs via the leash as the dog who's a strong puller essentially ignores the feel of the pull. The prong collar seemed to calm my puppy once she got used to it. My dog is now 9 months old and we started with the prong at 7 months. 

We're still working on not pulling and heel. She heels beautifully inside, but outside is too distracted by the environment. She'll heel for food outside, but doesn't want to stay in that position when I stop the steady stream of food. She'll fall into heel onto her own outside when we're on our way back to our house, however, as if she's thinking, "I already know what's in this area of the neighborhood, there's no need for me to be in front". 

I personally think it has to be communicated to the dog when it's time to 'work' on the leash (by being in a heel position) and when she's allowed to explore. I'm still working on it though as keeping her in heel position is tough to do for long periods. I increase the duration bit by bit over time, hoping to make the heel position the majority of our walks in the future.

Good luck!


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## Joe757

*My solution*

Hi!

My puppy was a hard core puller as well even on walks. Now she's fine, what I suggest (I know I may get bashed for this) but try the prong collar its an old German way of training your dog not to pull. The prongs will _*NOT*_ stab or go into the dogs neck. A slight pinch will happen though. Try to minimize the usage of it. (IE: use it for walks only) why? Because if the puppy is in public and trying to meet other dogs the nonstop corrections of the collar will prevent socialization. Which may trigger aggression.

If your not to hot on the idea of the prong collar I suggest a 3 rope chest collar.

Cheers, Joe.


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## firfly

Joe757 said:


> Hi!
> 
> My puppy was a hard core puller as well even on walks. Now she's fine, what I suggest (I know I may get bashed for this) but try the prong collar its an old German way of training your dog not to pull. The prongs will _*NOT*_ stab or go into the dogs neck. A slight pinch will happen though. Try to minimize the usage of it. (IE: use it for walks only) why? Because if the puppy is in public and trying to meet other dogs the nonstop corrections of the collar will prevent socialization. Which may trigger aggression.
> 
> If your not to hot on the idea of the prong collar I suggest a 3 rope chest collar.
> 
> Cheers, Joe.


Oh dear lord, yes get a prong collar, hey what is better having to do a couple of neck breaking jerks, with out saying a word to your dog, so that they do not associate the pain with you rather their screw up, or having to put the dog down after it gets hit by a car because it was never taught to follow directions. I dont necessarily believe in training GSDs old school or all the way hard, but come on guys some times it is necessary depending on the dog lets not let our aniamal loving instincts ruin a perfectly good aniamal, do it right the first time and it wont take you three months, just my personal opinion and experience.


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## webzpinner

My GSD is great on walks AFTER we get to the park so he can play. On the walk TO the park, he tugs and pulls, but not to the extent he chokes. I want him to walk WITH me, but the only time he'll stay next to me or behind me is at home or at the petstore.

Also, he LOVES to try to dart after cats or squirrels... even those across the street! I freak out that one day he's gonna launch himself right into a car, causing pain both to himself and my wallet by having to pay his vet rehab bills AND bodywork for the damaged car.

Any hints, tips or suggestions for breaking him of the cat lunge? treats don't hold his attention, and it's hard to do "pre-emptive" praise because we walk usually at sunrise/sunset, so he sees the cats before I do (I've got HORRID night vision). I thought about the poke-collar, but I'm afraid of the sudden jerks he gives himself when he sees a cat. It's a miracle he hasn't snapped his neck in two!


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## ngarza

webzpinner said:


> Any hints, tips or suggestions for breaking him of the cat lunge? treats don't hold his attention, and it's hard to do "pre-emptive" praise because we walk usually at sunrise/sunset, so he sees the cats before I do (I've got HORRID night vision). I thought about the poke-collar, but I'm afraid of the sudden jerks he gives himself when he sees a cat. It's a miracle he hasn't snapped his neck in two!


I actually am having a similar problem currently with my 9 month old GSD. I will be the first to say that I was lazy with the training early on with walking, and would let her pull me around. We barely walked because we have a good sized back yard and also a Sheltie and all they do is chase each other around all day. Now, she is 95lbs and its a lot harder to control her. She also has become protective, and doesn't like people she doesn't know coming near us.

So, after doing a lot of research, and talking to my Dad who has a Giant Schnauzer who is 10 months old and the most behaved dog I have ever seen. A choke/prong collar was suggested. Doing some more research on both types of collars and talking to the people at PetCo, I decided on the prong collar last night. I took her out after we got home and by the end of the walk I saw results.

We encountered 3 people and their dogs almost evenly throughout the walk. The first time she wanted to go after the dog and she barked at it, the second she moved towards the dog but didn't bark, and the third she saw it and kept an eye on it but didn't move towards her. It seems to have done the job great, but we still have a long way to go, and I plan on walking her daily.


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## 2manyqs

I've tried the Gentle Leader and had to move to the prong collar as well due to the fact it cut into her face. I've had it fitted properly, but b/c of the slop on her head it just keeps sliding down in back and then it will cut into her face. Plus, my girl is VERY leash reactive so if I'm in a situation where I haven't spotted the other dog ahead of time, she can launch into full blown mode (standing up on back legs, etc.) 

With the prong collar, there are still moments of intense excitement if we're caught off guard, but all in all, she seems to mind better on it. We're not yet to the stage of never reacting but I know I have more control with the prong and the likelihood of a neck snap is nil with it.


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## MegansGrace

I have similar problems with my lab. He can do a perfect stand for exam in class, but oh my gosh, if someone tries to pet him on the street-all bets are off. I swear, he's part leprechaun! All four feet off the ground at once with whole body wiggles in conjunction with 80lbs of pure pulling. And if it's a kid (snack size in his eyes), I better hold on because we're going for a ride. Now we've finally gotten to the point where we can WALK past them, on a short leash, in a heel, with a prong collar. But if someone talks to him in their disney princess voice (telling him how cute he is...obviously) or tries to pet him ... game over. He's a year and half now...

My point ... it gets better with time. My problem was that we were doing a lot of training in class, in my house, in my yard, but not in all new places. Keep up with the training. Correct, praise when your dog does it right. Loose lease walking worked really well for us. I don't make my guy stay in a perfect heel position, but walking nicely is mandatory when asked. Stay with it, it will get better. Right now the world is just too darn exciting. I made my guy sit my by side when he started to pull too much, or I'd ask him to look at me (a focus command). Maybe start integrating training commands into your walk to keep her on her toes ... and enforce them. 

In the mean time, a prong will certainly help keep you on your feet. When my guy is in a flat buckle collar I nearly get pulled over, but with a prong, he's a perfect gentleman. We tried a gentle leader but he hated it, pulled, and always looked like he was going to hurt himself. Oh ... and I have one of those double loop leashes which are AWESOME for dogs that pull a lot! 

Best of luck to you!!


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