# Dealing with Stigma in having an "Aggressive" Dog.



## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

For those of us who have an aggressive dog; whether to other dogs or strangers, people in general.. 

How do you deal with the stigma that comes with it? The looks, the comments, the words that are said about you or your dog. 

Sometimes i get essentially that i am a bad person for keeping an "aggressive" dog and that she should be put down. Which to some degree i can understand the point of view, at the same time they know little of what they talk about. 
Then there is the whole other side of people who basically say quite the opposite. 

(It definitely becomes a larger debate on many different things pertaining to keeping an "aggressive" or more commonly known as "mean" dog)

I'm open for your point of view on if you are one of those people who are the type to essentially tell me what i should do with my dog, having her be put down. It would be great to better understand the place where it is coming from. 

But mostly, i would love to hear from people who also have to deal with this.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I have felt this too. People don't understand.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Personally, it depends on the type if aggression. 

Dog aggression, eh. As long as you have control and don't let your dog attack other dogs. I don't care if they like other dogs. 

People aggression, that's a different story. I know what I will live with. I have a difficult time accepting that people tip toe around their own dog. 

Working in a vet clinic I hear all the time " oh we can't medicate him, he will bite us", " we can't touch his ears, he bites us", " if he is on the couch/bed we can't get on it cause he will bite us, so we just let him" and on and on ad nauseum. And in my head I say " oh heck no would I ever live with a dog like that, no way. Not acceptable" and it blows my mind that people do. 

I refuse to be held hostage by a dog. Now, I have rude dogs sometimes, but people can come in my house. I don't fear them being bitten. 

Of course, I see dogs that are flat EVIL at my work. Truly scary animals. But when I see them out and about, they are lovely dogs. I get that. That's not a deal to me. Dogs hate the vet. Ok. 

Now, my own pack. My oldest female GSD is very picky about other dogs. It's tougher to take her to big events and such. But, she has gone on winery tours, to the lakehouse( lots of other dogs) and she is manageable and ends up having a good time. 

My male, he has some dog reaction as well. But again, controllable. He also is not a fan of children. So THATS my biggest concern. I do get the dirty look when I am strict with other peoples kids. He is a striking dog, and kids literally run up on him. And that's what sets him off. Properly introduced, he is sweet and loving. Crazy running kid at his face..... He "Gruffs"( my word for that under the breath 1/2 bark). Easily redirected, never any outward aggression. But still. 

I walk him through parks, I do obedience at playgrounds. I am very vocal about kids not approaching. I have gotten dirty looks, but I am lucky in that more often than not, I get parents controlling their kids and I hear them explain " that puppy is learning, leave him alone". 

The other day I was leaving work, Nix( the kid one) was with me. The lobby was slammed with people and dogs. He was fine. Walking calmly next to me. I look up to a 4-5 yo boy hollering " HEY DOGGY" and coming at us quick! I stopped and said, loudly, " he does not like kids. Please don't come over here". The little boy stopped, his mom called him over, we walked out. Nix never once "gruffed". He is getting better. Lots of exposure and socialization. And good parents!! LOL. Thank god for good parents.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't. I don't deal with it at all.

The wisest words ever said to me regarding Jax was "quit worrying about what others are thinking and concentrate on your dog"

It's my dog. I'll manage my dog how I see fit. I had a HA dog and we managed her for many years. I have a DA dog and I manage her quite well. If she's out of control, I concentrate on her and block out other people. Because if I'm worrying about other people then I'm to busy to stop whatever behavior she's doing that needs to stop.

So...I don't. And you shouldn't either.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Never mind, I agree with Michelle (?)


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't care what anyone thinks as long as I, and my family can manage my dog that is aggressive. We never put her in situations that will fail her. If I was to take her out and about in public, that would be over her threshold and her reactivity would not be something I'd subject others to.
She's a happy dog at home, in the woods hiking and in areas that I can control. 
If I had to live in an area that she needed walking in public on a daily basis, then way different story....thankfully we can deal with her in an easier environment for her.
Vetting is with a muzzle, I handle her while the vet or tech do their thing. They understand her and don't try to prolong the treatments.
Onyx isn't all that bad as she's matured, but I still manage her. She is very untrustworthy around toddlers. We recently had a newborn baby visit, and I was surprised how gently she sniffed and explored the baby(with me keeping the calming tone)


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

I guess I developed a thick skin back when I had wolf shepherds. I felt that as long as my home set-up was such that the dogs couldn't get out, couldn't get to anyone or their dogs, and if they were outside the fence (which was very good, very strong) they were on a strong leash with me at the other end of it, then I didn't care what other people said. Today I have an aggressive female rescue GSD that only weighs 65 lbs. who is far more aggressive to dogs and people (men) than any other dog or wolfdog I have ever owned. Again, I have it set up so that she will never get out loose. If she is outside, even inside our fence, I am with her. If she is outside the fence for any reason, she has me on the other end of a strong leash. I am obeying every law, and she will never be in a situation where she can hurt anyone or any dog. We manage her. So I don't care what other people say, and I know they say things, I have heard some of the neighbors. Don't care.

Susan


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

VTGirlT said:


> For those of us who have an aggressive dog; whether to other dogs or strangers, people in general..
> 
> How do you deal with the stigma that comes with it? The looks, the comments, the words that are said about you or your dog.
> 
> ...


Are you still working with the trainer and the ecollar that you were? I fall into the same camp as the other replies as far as I don't care what people think, but I'm thinking in terms of you and what may shape your perspective.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

I agree with the majority of 'focus on your dog and not others (perceived) opinion of your dog or you'. Can good advice come from someone, sure, but quite often the one pointing the finger at your dog or how you handle it (which may be perfect) has even worse problems with their dog- just different (or not)... Staying focused on your dog and helping it through the issues present is way more important and helpful in the long and short term, then listening to those who tear down.. Again, a little common sense and wisdom offered appropriately can be immensely helpful usually that comes from someone who truly wants to help, not the gossiper, nosey neighbors, or non dog (or snooty dog) people.. 

To sum up... (lol)... I don't focus on others opinions of me or my dogs as I could never please everyone, nor would I want to... I am open to suggestions of betterment if needed, but if I have an issue with my dog I'm usually aware of it before anyone else, so work had already begun on resolution of said issue..


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

I get the feeling that people are offended at the existence of an aggressive dog. It's like they take it personally or they are worried they are going to get hurt, or their dog is going to get hurt. After explaining to many of my relatives, i get some better comments, genuinely wondering how Zelda is doing. 



gsdsar said:


> Personally, it depends on the type if aggression.
> 
> Dog aggression, eh. As long as you have control and don't let your dog attack other dogs. I don't care if they like other dogs.
> 
> ...


I agree, i know some people like this. The only thing that bothers me is that my parents are both scared of dogs in general. My mom is mainly, she is scared of GSD's in general as she told me or any powerful, bigger breed. She house sat for a friend. And the lab ended up growling at her for standing near his dog food bowl (like a yard away).So now thats in the back of her mind. I am trying to make her better understand dog language, and also ways we can try and improve her confidence around dogs, so that she is more of a leader and less timid. Zelda would let me do anything to her, and the family never has to, but she is respectful of space, she doesnt guard anything, and she isn't the type of dog where if she gets stepped on she will bite. Which we had a dog who did that to my mom before in the past! 
My dad was attacked by a GSD while walking on rail road tracks in the middle of no where as a kid going to school. He said there was no one in sight, no houses, just a GSD running at him, he put his arm up and the dog bite his arm and brought him to the ground and ran off. So i can understand where his fear comes from. 



Jax08 said:


> I don't. I don't deal with it at all.
> 
> The wisest words ever said to me regarding Jax was *"quit worrying about what others are thinking and concentrate on your dog"*
> 
> ...


Some wise words! I try my best to follow it.  I surely dont care what people think of me in the aspect of what i have to do in order to take care of Zelda, keep her under threshold, etc.



onyx'girl said:


> I don't care what anyone thinks as long as I, and my family can manage my dog that is aggressive. We never put her in situations that will fail her. If I was to take her out and about in public, that would be over her threshold and her reactivity would not be something I'd subject others to.
> She's a happy dog at home, in the woods hiking and in areas that I can control.
> If I had to live in an area that she needed walking in public on a daily basis, then way different story....thankfully we can deal with her in an easier environment for her.
> Vetting is with a muzzle, I handle her while the vet or tech do their thing. They understand her and don't try to prolong the treatments.
> Onyx isn't all that bad as she's matured, but I still manage her. She is very untrustworthy around toddlers. We recently had a newborn baby visit, and I was surprised how gently she sniffed and explored the baby(with me keeping the calming tone)


True true.  Life would be a lot easier not living in town! 



Susan_GSD_mom said:


> I guess I developed a thick skin back when I had wolf shepherds. I felt that as long as my home set-up was such that the dogs couldn't get out, couldn't get to anyone or their dogs, and if they were outside the fence (which was very good, very strong) they were on a strong leash with me at the other end of it, then I didn't care what other people said. Today I have an aggressive female rescue GSD that only weighs 65 lbs. who is far more aggressive to dogs and people (men) than any other dog or wolfdog I have ever owned. Again, I have it set up so that she will never get out loose. If she is outside, even inside our fence, I am with her. If she is outside the fence for any reason, she has me on the other end of a strong leash. I am obeying every law, and she will never be in a situation where she can hurt anyone or any dog. *We manage her. So I don't care what other people say, and I know they say things, I have heard some of the neighbors. Don't care.*
> 
> Susan


Well said! :thumbup:



Steve Strom said:


> Are you still working with the trainer and the ecollar that you were? I fall into the same camp as the other replies as far as I don't care what people think, but I'm thinking in terms of you and what may shape your perspective.


Yes i am, we see her a lot less. We have another session i can set up whenever. At this point my trainer said we are basically are well on our way, we basically have repetition on things. Zelda has been doing great improvements. 
Her fearfulness has more than likely gone down more or at the minimum still the same, her reactivity has gone down with the management and giving her job to do. Whether its to heel next to me, or sit, focus, release, walk a couple steps to a stranger ignoring her, sit, focus, release, until we are at the stranger. (So she has a "job" to focus on instead of worrying about the stranger.) Then were at the stranger, she sniffs, i give her a verbal party and treats and we walk away and repeat as necessary until we can be sitting or laying down near the stranger and she does not have to keep her eye on them. Because with fear aggression, if you let them think about it too long, there is a tipping point. I can read Zelda really well, and i know hers. But she let my friend throw her treats the other day, and she was willing to sit for her. My aunt came over the other day too, and although she barked at first for a few minutes. i was able to get her to calm and she laid down on her own terms (she was on leash, not muzzled). My sister had friend over a few weeks back, i did the same thing. 
What i found out about Zelda. (And i asked my vet about it, to see what he thought..) Is that when i pick her up near strangers, i only do this before they become anywhere near us, so before it would even start touching her threshold. Who look at us, talk to us, or even are a couple feet from us, or approaching us. She will not bark, growl, or anything. I am taking the responsibility and making her fully trust me when i do this. Which i found out when i was on a hike with her and during a narrow path there were 2 people and their dog coming the opposite way. So i picked her up and walked with her (she is about 70 pounds so thankfully she isn't over 100 or something!) and she was fine. So i did this when i walked into the vet the other day and it worked out great!  So really we are making improvements! And our relationship is better then it ever has been. She is almost perfect with her commands off leash, we use e-collar as communication for it. But we wouldn't need it ultimately, but its my reassurance of having a FA off leash. Also if i know there potentially could be people around. She gets a muzzle on. She can still smell, drink, pant, and even grab sticks with it on, so its not like it doesnt take away from the off leash hikes having it on! 
I am hoping we will keep steadily making improvements with her FA. Its a long road, but its worth it with this girl! She has quite the little soul, her personality is quite out of this world really. She is incredibly smart, for instance she picked up on a very hard thing to learn, where i point to the left or right and say "this", which basically means were going in this direction or i want you on the left or right side of me, when off leash (or on leash) even 20-30 feet away from me. And im a novice trainer she really she picks up the slack on that for me!  



Hineni7 said:


> I agree with the majority of *'focus on your dog and not others (perceived) opinion of your dog or you'*. Can good advice come from someone, sure, but quite often the one pointing the finger at your dog or how you handle it (which may be perfect) has even worse problems with their dog- just different (or not)... Staying focused on your dog and helping it through the issues present is way more important and helpful in the long and short term, then listening to those who tear down.. Again, a little common sense and wisdom offered appropriately can be immensely helpful usually that comes from someone who truly wants to help, not the gossiper, nosey neighbors, or non dog (or snooty dog) people..
> 
> To sum up... (lol)... I don't focus on others opinions of me or my dogs as I could never please everyone, nor would I want to... I am open to suggestions of betterment if needed, *but if I have an issue with my dog I'm usually aware of it before anyone else*, so work had already begun on resolution of said issue..


Thank you for your thoughts, i agree entirely! i always find it funny when people think they know your dog better than you do! Saying "oh she she is fine now" or "you dont need the muzzle" or the captain obvious says, "what if you just do this (insert something you have already tried, considered or have already done)" or "You could have just walked in here with her." When really the "just walking in" would have gone way over her threshold in which case she would shut down, or become quite reactive..


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## Jayfeather (Dec 28, 2014)

I love how people's responses always vary. I have a reactive dog, getting a lot better, but not quite perfect yet. I always do some training outside the dog park before going in, to calm him a bit when he sees so many other dogs. The other day there was this one dog owner who took her dog to the small dog area because she thought he was aggressive. Another time someone was so fascinated that he asked me to train his dog for him! People always react differently, you can't please everyone. I generally ignore anyone else when dealing with my dog, I don't really care what others think.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm not really commenting on any specific training so much as just a general thought about how we live with our dogs and why your goals in training would possibly give you concern about what others think and why I find it so easy not to care.

I tend to look at things as all obedience. I don't think you can change temperament, what I can do though is teach my dog to behave. That's what was ingrained into me, even before we actually got our first dog. When you train your dog with a goal of pack walks, things like that, I think it automatically is going to condition you to thinking you have to "Fit in" I've had dogs that fit in and dogs didn't. But its never been my goal to do that.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

People are weird. I stopped at Tractor Supply and moved aside for this guy coming down the aisle. Jax is sitting perfect beside me. She's actually fairly aloof with strangers and most often will turn her head away from them, not seek attention. So the guy stops and starts petting her and talking to her. As he walks away, he all but snarls out "and you better be good"

What? She is still sitting quietly beside me! 

People are weird.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Steve Strom said:


> I tend to look at things as all obedience. I don't think you can change temperament, what I can do though is teach my dog to behave. .


Exactly!!!

I can control my dog. That's it. I can't control others. I can't control people.

We were at the ortho's for a pulled groin muscle. I left the exam rooms and as we entered the waiting room, an off leash, obese, pug CHARGES Jax. Snarling, growling, bark off leash fat mass. I saw it coming so blocked Jax against the wall with a fast "Leave It!".

The woman gathers the dog, apologizing and telling me "he's not aggressive. he lives with other dogs" Meanwhile, people who were petting this pug are LAUGHING!

Yeah? Yours isn't? Well mine is. And I don't pay vet bills for your stupidity.

Her response to that? As my dog never made a peep. Never made an aggressive move. Her response to that was "Oh I can tell she is from where you are standing."

:rofl: Really? Because she's just sitting her quietly beside me because I've put the obedience on her. I'm over here because your awesome, non-aggressive, snarling mess is not under control. Not because mine isn't.

People are weird.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> People are weird. I stopped at Tractor Supply and moved aside for this guy coming down the aisle. Jax is sitting perfect beside me. She's actually fairly aloof with strangers and most often will turn her head away from them, not seek attention. So the guy stops and starts petting her and talking to her. As he walks away, he all but snarls out "and you better be good"
> 
> What? She is still sitting quietly beside me!
> 
> People are weird.



I can do better than that! (With the crazies).

Last year I had paisley in a sit off the path. She was only 7/8 months old or so and was behaving. This lady said out loud that paisley better not eat her dog. Fast forward to a few weeks ago. Same lady. I put paisley in a sit and reach into my treat bag (it was a narrow path and her dog was pulling and I wanted to insure good behavior, which she was). Lady told me she thought I was gonna pull a gun on her!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You should start yelling "Boo!" every time she walks by. lol Weird. People.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> You should start yelling "Boo!" every time she walks by. lol Weird. People.



Well I am currently teaching Paisley to bark on command (not for this but for other reasons)...not the smartest idea, I am sure, but I would get a kick out of it!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

mspiker03 said:


> Lady told me she thought I was gonna pull a gun on her!


Well? Did ya??


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Steve Strom said:


> Well? Did ya??



Lol. Because I am such the stereotype of someone who would carry a gun through a family park no less. (It happened a day or two before I saw you when I was at my parents)


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I wasn't sure, what with the chewin tabacky and all. You know.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Steve Strom said:


> I wasn't sure, what with the chewin tabacky and all. You know.



And what sort of image of me are you trying to portray to the other forum members?!?! 

PS: chewing tobacco = yuck


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Oops. I forgot that whole public forum part. Sorry.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Personally, I don't think it is civilized to tell anything to anyone about his/her child or dog, unless you are physically hurt. Why don't they complain about music out of the car? Because their imagination assosiates your dog with some horrible pictures, and the music doesn't. But you can do something about it.
1. Redirect people's attention by putting some fancy collar on your noisy girl. Say, wide pink collar with crystals in a daytime, and glow collar for nighttime;
2. Every time you hear a voice sounding unfriendly - *show your back. And, never say a word. *The conflict will finish itself then. Not saying a word and showing your complete disinterest would work for your dog as well - you should show her that the object is unworthy. 
3. *Prong collars, e-collars, choke chains increase agression in agressive dogs*. Put it in the rubbish bin if you ever used it. Use soft harness for walking and train her to ware a muzzle.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> 3. Prong collars, e-collars, choke chains increase agression in agressive dogs. Put it in the rubbish bin if you ever used it. Use soft harness for walking and train her to ware a muzzle.


A harness and muzzle. How's that going to help?


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I have what some might call a "people aggressive dog". I call it aloofness, social and civil aggression, and dominant. Aloof is in the breed spec. Aggression is what makes a dog a good protection dog. And numerous professionals in the GSD world have said to me "that dog you have is what a GSD is supposed to be". To be honest 99% of the time when someone says a dog is aggressive I want to correct them and say "it's defensive, not aggressive". And to be more honest, if I got a GSD that showed no aggression at all, I'd rehome him and go get another


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

Most aggression in pet dogs is due to fear or insecurity. IF YOUR DOG IS AGGRESSIVE TOWARDS OTHER DOGS CLICK HERE. If your dog is aggressive towards humans, then the using the Ecollar as you have, will help. If it persists I'd find ways to build the dog's confidence. The best tool for this, IME is obstacle training, which some call agility, but I'm not talking about agility type competition. Start running your dog over obstacles. Start small and get bigger. Make sure that if your dog falls, YOU ARE THERE TO CATCH HIM so that he doesn’t hit the ground. If that happens, you'll damage the work big time. Once the dog is experienced, a slip and fall to the ground is not disastrous. Early in the work IT'S ESSENTIAL that you not let it happen. If he does fall and you catch him, his confidence in you to be there for him will grow exponentially. This kind of work builds the bond between dog and handler because the dog learns to rely on you. 

Many training groups/clubs will have formal obstacles including things like an A frame, vertical wall (best if the height is adjustable so you can start small) a teeter−totter, a window jump, a fence jump, a cat walk, etc. These are a good place to start. You can also improvise and get started in the average children's playground. Some parents may object so you might want to go in off hours. Many of them have a "Disney tree house" kind of apparatus that has moving walkways (supported on chains) that is quite useful for dogs that are unsure on such surfaces. The ladders on the back of slides and the slides themselves are great, once the dog is experienced on lesser obstacles.


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

David Taggart said:


> 3. *Prong collars, e-collars, choke chains increase agression in agressive dogs*. Put it in the rubbish bin if you ever used it. Use soft harness for walking and train her to ware a muzzle.


ARGHHH. I thought that as intelligent, logical, reasoning people, we were past this fiction. THE TRUTH IS *Prong collars, e-collars, and choke chains increase aggression in aggressive dogs*. *  ONLY IF THEY ARE USED IMPROPERLY!. * 

IN REALITY, the Ecollar, properly used can DECREASE aggression, BOTH towards other dogs and towards humans.


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

LouCastle said:


> Most aggression in pet dogs is due to fear or insecurity. IF YOUR DOG IS AGGRESSIVE TOWARDS OTHER DOGS CLICK HERE. If your dog is aggressive towards humans, then the using the Ecollar as you have, will help. If it persists I'd find ways to build the dog's confidence. The best tool for this, IME is obstacle training, which some call agility, but I'm not talking about agility type competition. Start running your dog over obstacles. Start small and get bigger. Make sure that if your dog falls, YOU ARE THERE TO CATCH HIM so that he doesn’t hit the ground. If that happens, you'll damage the work big time. Once the dog is experienced, a slip and fall to the ground is not disastrous. Early in the work IT'S ESSENTIAL that you not let it happen. If he does fall and you catch him, his confidence in you to be there for him will grow exponentially. This kind of work builds the bond between dog and handler because the dog learns to rely on you.
> 
> Many training groups/clubs will have formal obstacles including things like an A frame, vertical wall (best if the height is adjustable so you can start small) a teeter−totter, a window jump, a fence jump, a cat walk, etc. These are a good place to start. You can also improvise and get started in the average children's playground. Some parents may object so you might want to go in off hours. Many of them have a "Disney tree house" kind of apparatus that has moving walkways (supported on chains) that is quite useful for dogs that are unsure on such surfaces. The ladders on the back of slides and the slides themselves are great, once the dog is experienced on lesser obstacles.


Yes i agree, she actually finds it fun to do things like that! We actually use an old playground, that is no longer used for school, there are some things on there that are doable, until i have more money to build something myself, and the space.. I just have to watch out for her hips.  
During the summer, she refused to jump across a 1.5 foot over water onto 15 docks on the water. Eventually she built more and more courage throughout the day. I never forced her, but we cut a corner and it just happened. After that she wanted to keep doing it! She clearly built some confidence on that. She also has more confidence in me to take care of her. Which i think is also important for FA dogs, to know they can trust their person fully. Before, during and after whatever it was that was causing them to be fearful. 
I think the most important part of owning a dog who is fear aggressive to strangers, dogs, particular humans. Is that they need to have a really good solid relationship with their person/handler. 



LouCastle said:


> ARGHHH. I thought that as intelligent, logical, reasoning people, we were past this fiction. THE TRUTH IS *Prong collars, e-collars, and choke chains increase aggression in aggressive dogs*. *  ONLY IF THEY ARE USED IMPROPERLY!. *
> 
> IN REALITY, the Ecollar, properly used can DECREASE aggression, BOTH towards other dogs and towards humans.


Yes, i agree.


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