# Should I get a puppy? (Not now, but later...)



## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

So I've been wondering about something for a while now...I've had Willow, my 4-year-old adopted GSD, for about 1.5 years now. Things are going well, I've learned a ton, and I love this little turd. I'm not really planning on getting a puppy anytime soon, but I've read a bunch of posts on here from people who, say, got a puppy when their current dog was getting older. I guess to let the older dog help train the young one?

I have had SOME VERY LITTLE experience with a GSD puppy, and it didn't go well, and this is why I'm hesitant. In December 2017 I fell for a facebook scam of BYB puppies; basically they advertised an "accidental" litter, in which their purebred GSD had accidentally bred with a GSD that was 1/4 heeler. They were selling the puppies for $300. In my inexperience with this kind of thing I didn't see any red flags, and made arrangements to purchase one of the pups.

I showed up at the place ~2 hours away from me and it became clear immediately that this wasn't a good situation: disgusting house, dogs in small kennels everywhere. I went inside anyway and saw these cute puppers, 7 weeks old. I debated with myself and pitied the pups in that situation, and figured I might as well get one, and get it away from that house. I chose a female who seemed really docile (compared to the others). Took her home, named her Raven.

I had everything I needed: crate, food, treats, collar, leash, travel crate. She was super cute for like...a day. Then she turned into a little nightmare. I don't know if maybe they weren't feeding her well, or the mom wasn't feeding the pups well, but once she'd been with me for a day (and eaten good food) she was definitely not docile anymore. I know they say GSD pups are land sharks, but this was ridiculous: I literally couldn't go anywhere without her attacking my feet. I tried grabbing her nose, putting my finger down her throat, doing the shrieky thing, stopping play, redirecting to a toy, like...anything I read on the internet for this. Nothing worked. She hated my feet (and hands) and wanted to destroy them. I couldn't touch her at all without her biting me. She peed everywhere. She would pee outside when I took her out, but then she'd immediately come inside and pee some more. She did not pee in her crate, fortunately. But I basically couldn't play with her inside at all because she'd just pee. Every. Time. (We did get in 1 vet visit before I gave her up, and the vet gave her a clean bill of health.) She was a relatively good sleeper and didn't complain too much in her crate, as long as it was near me. I know she was only 7 weeks old, and I only had a week with her, but she just seemed like a very stubborn, aggressive, dominant dog--not at all what I was prepared to deal with.

Anyway, within a week I was at my wit's end. Literally having a nervous breakdown. This was pre-COVID so I wasn't working from home, and I just couldn't foresee how I was going to raise this puppy on my own, with a full-time job. I ended up finding someone who had an older GSD mix, and I gave little Raven away.

(I found out later that Raven, during play, bit this person's grandson's ear, making him cry, after which the older GSD mix became extremely aggressive toward Raven. So this person then rehomed Raven to a sheriff's deputy who had multiple GSDs, and since then I don't know what's become of her.)

Anyway. The point of this post is, please, for you all to not judge me on everything I did wrong. I know I did a LOT of things wrong, from the very moment I agreed to buy this BYB puppy. I do not regret rehoming Raven, but I do regret many other things about the experience, including paying these people $300 to encourage them to keep breeding their poor sad dogs, and would really rather you guys not focus on that. I hope Raven is doing well, wherever she is, and sometimes I see a GSD and wonder if it could be her. I regret that I gave her up, but I do honestly think it was the best thing for my mental health (seriously...nervous breakdown). I've learned the value of good breeding, and would be prepared to spend money for that.

*My main question is: is the behavior above pretty much the same across the board for any GSD puppy, including well-bred, papered ones? Or do you think I made the puppy-owning experience harder on myself by getting a BYB pup? Basically, if I shell out the money later from a reputable breeder who makes an effort to match the puppy's temperament with my situation, do you think I could raise such a puppy on my own (and with Willow's help)? *

Obviously I don't expect anybody to be able to guarantee me anything. I'm mostly wondering if well-bred pups are "easier" or not.

Constructive criticism most welcome. Please don't make me regret making this post.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Continue to weigh the pros and cons over the next couple of years and be brutally honest with yourself. You may decide on a more easy going breed that suits your own temperament better.


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## MyWifeIsBoss (Apr 27, 2020)

AFAIK, well-bred pups are harder 😂


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

MyWifeIsBoss said:


> *AFAIK*, well-bred pups are harder 😂


*As far as i know
...for those of us who are less hip


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## MyWifeIsBoss (Apr 27, 2020)

Fodder said:


> *As far as i know
> ...for those of us who are less hip


Oh come on.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Haha. That was one I actually knew. (I had to look up SMH a few years ago because I had no idea.)

I do think having Willow has helped me...I had a lot of the same issues with her that I had with the puppy, namely, that I'd get in my own head and obsess over every little thing and worry I was doing everything wrong and ruining my dog. So yeah, I fully admit my problems with Raven were largely due to my own inexperience and unreasonable expectations. Things were easier with Willow because...she's an adult, obviously, and she was very well crate-trained which was a godsend. But things were a struggle; she's a nervy dog, but we've both come a long way. Still, the experience has taught me not to get so hung up on my expectations, or expect things to happen fast. I think that would help with a puppy. 

I forgot to mention this above, that the only reason I rehomed Raven so fast was because someone popped up who offered to take her. I was in such a bad place mentally that that offer was like a ray of hope in the darkness; if not for that, heck, I might still have her, I dunno. I didn't actively rehome her--someone wanted her. (Unfortunately it didn't work out with that person but...it just seemed like a better alternative for Raven, and for me.)

I am definitely not looking at getting a puppy anytime soon. And I just went for a walk with Willow and asked myself, well, why do I want a puppy at all, rather than another rescue? Maybe for the chance to mold/train a puppy, better socialize it (to avoid the people-fear Willow will probably have for the rest of her life)? I dunno. But yes, will give it a lot more thought. And maybe I don't need to stick with GSD (though I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for them).


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I think a well bred pup, at least well bred to me, is easier. My least favorite thing in a dog is nerve issues. I want a genetically confident, forward dog. If I have that, everything else comes easy as far as household manners and general training. Give me the landshark that jumps on counters and tackles people. That stuff is easy to deal with compared to fearful behaviors.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I think you have come leaps and bounds with Willow and I think you are better able to cope with, and resolve, issues. I believe that if you want to, you could easily deal with a puppy. But do you want to?

NOTE! The yelping thing does not work on any dog with a drop of prey drive! I would like to find the person who came up with that and throat punch them. Don't yelp.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I remember your posts from the Raven experience. To answer your question, that behavior CAN be pretty much the same for a well bred dog and byb dogs can be absolutely perfect top train. There's no guarantees just raising your odds.

You in a good spot right now, why complicate things? I thunk you're best as a one person dog and perhaps not a GSD for the future as they can be a handful for anyone


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Sabis mom said:


> NOTE! The yelping thing does not work on any dog with a drop of prey drive! I would like to find the person who came up with that and throat punch them. Don't yelp.


That may be mostly true, but Keefer had the strongest prey drive of any of our GSDs and he’s also the one that technique worked the best with. He had super high pack drive though and was intensely bonded to me.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

If I had to do it over again, I would wait and get a puppy when my older dog passed.
It is so much more work and stress, and I have to divide my time between them. This makes me always feel as if neither is getting his needs completely met.
It took a YEAR AND A HALF for my older dog to accept my younger one. Now, sometimes I need to separate them because their horsing around drives me nuts. Not to mention that, when they both went for a ball at the same time, they crashed into one another, causing the younger to get a broken canine and the older one, chipped teeth.
Dental bill: $3500.
I love them both dearly, but one dog at a time is what is in my future.

As far as easier, I don’t think there is such a thing as an easy GSD.
Both my dogs gave me challenges when they were puppies, and the younger one continues to be challenging because he is young and a brat. 
If you don’t want a puppy that is a land shark and will exasperate you, don’t get a GSD.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> If I had to do it over again, I would wait and get a puppy when my older dog passed.
> It is so much more work and stress, and I have to divide my time between them. This makes me always feel as if neither is getting his needs completely met.
> It took a YEAR AND A HALF for my older dog to accept my younger one. Now, sometimes I need to separate them because their horsing around drives me nuts. Not to mention that, when they both went for a ball at the same time, they crashed into one another, causing the younger to get a broken canine and the older one, chipped teeth.
> Dental bill: $3500.
> I love them both dearly, but one dog at a time is what is in my future.


I desperately want a pup. Like I sit here crying I want one so bad. But Shadow is dog aggressive, and although she has lived with other dogs I don't know how accepting she would be of a puppy competing for my attention. If the perfect pup comes up I may make the call, and I know I can make it work, but I owe Shadow my loyalty as much as she has given me hers. She deserves to feel safe and loved in her own home and she has earned peace.
I know I will be dog-less when her time is up, and that's going to be hard.
As someone who has had 1 dog and 21 dogs and everything in between I will not have more then two again and I prefer one.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> I desperately want a pup. Like I sit here crying I want one so bad. But Shadow is dog aggressive, and although she has lived with other dogs I don't know how accepting she would be of a puppy competing for my attention. If the perfect pup comes up I may make the call, and I know I can make it work, but I owe Shadow my loyalty as much as she has given me hers. She deserves to feel safe and loved in her own home and she has earned peace.
> I know I will be dog-less when her time is up, and that's going to be hard.
> As someone who has had 1 dog and 21 dogs and everything in between I will not have more then two again and I prefer one.


There is a female Gus x Jill pup available. I have never had a dog that puts other dogs at ease like Valor.


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## MyWifeIsBoss (Apr 27, 2020)

^^^ The whole reason I want a second dog is that I just don't think I'll handle it when Ray's time is up.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

David Winners said:


> There is a female Gus x Jill pup available. I have never had a dog that puts other dogs at ease like Valor.


You're killing me David!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> If I had to do it over again, I would wait and get a puppy when my older dog passed.
> It is so much more work and stress, and I have to divide my time between them. This makes me always feel as if neither is getting his needs completely met.
> It took a YEAR AND A HALF for my older dog to accept my younger one. Now, sometimes I need to separate them because their horsing around drives me nuts. Not to mention that, when they both went for a ball at the same time, they crashed into one another, causing the younger to get a broken canine and the older one, chipped teeth.
> Dental bill: $3500.
> ...


I think with proper exercise and stimulation many of these issues would go away. I can't imagine owning GSDs without daily, strenuous exercise. 

If they are driving you nuts, give them an outlet that isn't being crazy in the house. When a zoomie starts, I go. I take dinner off a hot burner and press pause for 5 minutes and take them outside to blow off some steam. 

I suppose easy is a relative term, but it is much more challenging to train a low drive dog who is reactive than a higher drive dog. Yes, it takes work, but it's fun work. It's really playing with the puppy with rules. It takes time, and if you don't have that time, out won't take the time, then a puppy is a bad idea.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> You're killing me David!


I think you would love a Gus pup. 

I sent this to Sapphire earlier:

I'm selling off restaurant equipment. Had a lady meet me up there at 7 tonight. I took Valor, of course. He was off leash wandering around. Greeted her momentarily when she got out of her car and then continued on sniffing. Completely dark parking lot. Strange car. Strange woman.

Hi lady... Moving on.

Then we walked inside and Valor was still outside. I didn't call him or look for him and she got nervous.

She said, um... Your dog?

About 2 seconds later he came racing in the door.

No commands. No words at all. Just a a boy and his dog living life.

He is just so good at that.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Honestly? My biggest fear is that I get a dead stable, perfectly normal dog and it hates me! Lol. At no point in 50 years have I chosen a dog. I have always had recycled dogs, or the ones I knew would not make it in the world. This next dog will be the first puppy I have chosen to have. 
@banzai555 in another year re-evaluate your situation, but I think you are great at this and would do well now that you sort of know what you are facing. Willow is a lucky girl.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> Honestly? My biggest fear is that I get a dead stable, perfectly normal dog and it hates me! Lol. At no point in 50 years have I chosen a dog. I have always had recycled dogs, or the ones I knew would not make it in the world. This next dog will be the first puppy I have chosen to have.
> @banzai555 in another year re-evaluate your situation, but I think you are great at this and would do well now that you sort of know what you are facing. Willow is a lucky girl.


The difference is: what do we want to do today, or what do we have to do today?

When there isn't a standing issue that you are working on, you just get to do what you feel like doing. That can be anything, or everything.

It's fun. I highly recommend it.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

My first GSD was BYB. Within the first month, I wanted to give him back. All the books I've read, the advice I've gotten, videos I've watched couldn't prepare me for what raising a puppy was like. I was overwhelmed. He was my first GSD and also my first dog. I'm not a quitter in anything and besides within that short time period, I already fell in love with the thing. So I decided to power through the hard times because everyone (including people here) told me things will be much better as they get older. Despite the health problems, he turned out to be a great "starter" GSD/dog. I can go on and on about him.

The 2nd and current one...when I got him, I thought, "GSDs aren't that hard. I'm going to up the ante and get a working line GSD." Boy if I thought the first one was bad, this one is 10 times worse. I went through 3 big boxes of bandages and 2 tubes of Neosporin before he went through teething. The biting was relentless. The walks were a nightmare. He would pick up everything in his mouth and I would have to get it out of his mouth...literally every 5 secs. It was so frustrating. He didn't stop peeing in the house for months. The first one took just 1 month to be housetrained and I also taught him "high five and shake hands at 8 weeks old. The current one just couldn't get it for a long while. He's a resource guarder. His energy and drive is high. Of course, there are some good things about him but you get the picture. Anyway, he's getting close to 3 yo and he's calming down some and turning out to be a great dog. Oh and btw, this one I got from a GSD breeder....good DDR/Czech lines.

So to answer your question....no, in my short dog raising/owning experience, it doesn't matter if the pup is BYB or from a good breeder. It's the luck of the draw and your willingness to see it through the "tough" times. It takes time, perseverance, determination, patience, etc. Can you raise it on your own? We don't know because we don't know who you are as a person. I raised my current one on my own and I'm about to turn 51 in a couple months. All I know is it wasn't easy. He might be the last GSD puppy I raise. I don't know if I can handle it when I'm in my 60s. I may adopt/rescue GSDs in the future instead of going the puppy route. Anyway, good luck in your decision.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

As many have said you can have a problem child with a pup from a good breeder. However I’d like to point out that from your description of the conditions at the BYB the odds were stacked against you. A good Breeder will have socialized the pup to being handled, different sounds inside and out. Also your BYB pup should have stayed another week with mom and litter mates to learn a little more bite inhibition.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

drparker151 said:


> As many have said you can have a problem child with a pup from a good breeder. However I’d like to point out that from your description of the conditions at the BYB the odds were stacked against you. A good Breeder will have socialized the pup to being handled, different sounds inside and out. Also your BYB pup should have stayed another week with mom and litter mates to learn a little more bite inhibition.


Yeah that was sort of what I was wondering...being 7 weeks old was like the _only_ red flag to me when I first saw the pups on facebook. I thought, aren't they supposed to stay with Mom til 8 weeks? And I really do think she was underfed. She was SO docile when I picked her up. Makes sense that she might have been really hungry and overall just not taken very good care of. 

I think if I do go with a GSD pup in the future I would likely go with a show line...seems many of the things I've read around here suggest show lines are a more laid-back temperament, not quite as energetic, better family dogs. Willow is, supposedly, a working line (though probably BYB). Like I said, it will be a while...a LONG while...before I would actually get a puppy, if I decide to go that route at all.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

David Winners said:


> I think with proper exercise and stimulation many of these issues would go away. I can't imagine owning GSDs without daily, strenuous exercise.
> 
> If they are driving you nuts, give them an outlet that isn't being crazy in the house. When a zoomie starts, I go. I take dinner off a hot burner and press pause for 5 minutes and take them outside to blow off some steam.


I agree, they need proper exercise, need to run or fetch until the tongue hangs to the side and they pant with a goofy grin.

The house is not the place for zoomies. 

What I’m talking about is doggie behavior. The way dogs interact. I won’t go into it here, but in the future I will avoid it by having one dog at a time.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I've only had two dogs at the same time, except for one month after we brought Cava home and we had three. We hadn't planned to get a puppy until after Halo was gone. She was in the late stages of DM so we didn't know exactly when that would be. We wanted to make sure she got our full attention and any decision about when to let her go wasn't influenced by a puppy on the way. We also weren't sure if Halo would accept a puppy into the household and thought it might be a disaster. That didn't work out quite as planned, I ended up finding the perfect puppy several months too soon but the breeder was wonderful and offered to hold onto her for us until we were ready. I didn't want to wait too long though, there were a lot of things I wanted to do with her while she was still young. She was 4-1/2 months old when we finally got her, and it went much better than we expected. I'd bought an x-pen but never used it. Instead, we moved a chair out of the living room and set up Halo's wire travel crate in that spot. Cava could still be with all of us in the same room, but not pestering the other dogs. In addition to Halo's DM, Keefer was very old so we were dealing with two older, ill, and somewhat incontinent dogs with limited mobility at the same time we were raising a puppy. It was challenging but shortly after we brought Cava home Halo also developed a serious case of pancreatitis. After a couple of weeks, she still hadn't recovered and we decided it was time. She was clearly not feeling well and didn't want to eat or drink, vomiting when she did.

Fortunately, all of our two dog pairs - Dena and Keefer, Keefer and Halo, and Keefer and Cava, have got along extremely well and became the best of friends. I think we could easily add a puppy whenever we want, Cava is great with other dogs, but I'm not really ready for that yet. I'm enjoying just having one dog and she's still young, not yet 3. I'm so glad I didn't dismiss her because the timing sucked, she's turned out to be the best dog we've ever had. And we got her from out of state, never having met the breeder or seen the dam or sire. I knew the co-owner of the sire, who alerted me to the litter and put me in touch with the breeder. We had extensive conversations in messenger, and she sent me photos and videos of her working with the pups. She did the breeding for her next working dog and ended up keeping two of the puppies. She's training them both in IPO, like the dam. Everything she said about Cava's dam and what she saw in Cava was exactly what I was looking for. She is all that and more, confident, always happy, and her enthusiasm and engagement are phenomenal.

I'm certainly not going to talk anyone into getting a puppy if they're not sure they're ready, but going with a reputable breeder who understands what you are looking for (and absolutely DON'T want) will increase your chances of ending up happy.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

oh, you bought with your heart, not your head. All is forgiven...

We look for an adult at the shelter. They are grateful to have a home and make the best pets. All the puppy stuff is behind them. That would be my suggestion. I don't have any doubts about your ability to raise a dog, Willow is one lucky girl.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> I agree, they need proper exercise, need to run or fetch until the tongue hangs to the side and they pant with a goofy grin.
> 
> The house is not the place for zoomies.
> 
> What I’m talking about is doggie behavior. The way dogs interact. I won’t go into it here, but in the future I will avoid it by having one dog at a time.


Tired dogs tend to go lay down. They are also more compliant. A lot of annoying behaviors just go away when the dogs are physically and mentally exercised.

If you want to control 2 dogs interacting, ask for a behavior that controls the situation. Place, kennel, down, whatever works in your situation.

I know I sound like a broken record. Exercise, exercise, exercise.

I board and train dogs, and I'm here to tell you that most everyday bad behavior goes away with no punishment whatsoever. A little marker training, a little tug, a little fetch and a lot of exercise and you have a completely different dog. A happy dog.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Two dogs have pretty much turned out to be less work and more fun. They often start to play inside but we shut it down at level 4 and no harm no foul. A little face tugging, straight arming and toy tug is OK, no zoomies allowed....


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Two dogs were/are always easier for me and I always had/have females. Our Border Collie is mellow and well behaved and was teaching Lexie good manners. So far she is very respectful although almost twice bigger.
Lex is a pup off Craigslist, the family was trading her for kids toys. Both her mom and dad belong to one family, they are family pets that were raised with lots of little kids.
I got lucky (knock on a wood) with a mellow, affectionate and smart pup. Not trying to promote BYB. Had show dogs for many years, got burned after losing 4 senior dogs 11-14 y.o one after another.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

OP, to be honest, Juno was much easier than I expected. I know I post a lot on the forum (mainly complaints) and she probably has a rep she does not completely deserve. 

I have an ACD/beagle rescue. He's six I think and he does not like other dogs in general, but with time, he can get over it. A lot of breeders did not want to give me a puppy, but I got Juno. She's working line and she is a bit "sharp", which means she gets a lot of socialization (I hope). 

But she was a good puppy. Her land shark phase was manageable. She ate a lot of socks and panties (!). She is obedient and attentive. I have a very structured schedule and my dogs get my attention in a structured sort of way, too, which helps tremendously. I try to ensure that every interaction between the two comes through me. That's my goal though I do not always succeed... I posted a video a while back of my GSD harrying my rescue in an invitation to play.

but honestly, she is a joy. She is always smiling and always eager to help and always curious. She has given me a lot of confidence in my dog handling skills, and I can now say that my rescue is a happier dog, too. He's def BYB, was probably separated from his mother and siblings too early. The e collar has also helped tremendously.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

If you buy a pup from a reputable breeder, who knows what she is producing and carefully observes her pups, she can match you with a good fit.

A nice working line pup should still be easy to handle- at the breeder she should have done a lot of that- and gotten an early start in "no teeth on skin" (if that is how the breeder raises pups- just ask). 

So to answer your question, yes, if you get a pup from a reputable breeder and are very clear about what you want (and realistic, given the breed), you can find a pup that suits you and your situation within reason. 

Exercise, structure, routine, daily training, and a clear outlet for their drives to bite and tug... never seen a dog who is unhappy given these conditions. If you seek a breeder who produces social or socially neutral dogs, you won't be dealing with reactivity unless you make mistakes socializing early. 

My "best bred" dog out of serious working lines was a super easy puppy. Probably similar to David's experience (different breeds, different lines, but a similar quality breeder who knows her stuff).


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