# Difference in Muscle meat and RMB



## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

I am looking into beginning feeding raw to Liesl. I plan to start with chicken and add variety after establishing that she will feed raw.

My question is about the qualitative difference in "muscle meat" and "raw meaty bones". I cannot seem to find a good definition of the distinction.

For example: If I give her a chicken thigh/leg quarter, it contains a lot of what I would call both MM and RMB. So which is it? Can I count it as "both" when calculating the weight of each to feed her? Or do I need to actually carve off most of the meat from the quarter and weigh that MM separately from the remaining bone (which I assume would now be considered RMB) in calculating how much of each to feed?

I apologize if this is a dumb question, or has been answered elsewhere. Thanks for the help!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

A leg quarter is considered a RMB. It is a bone surrounded by meat. MM would be meat without bone.


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

Thanks.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Wait a sec...so a leg quarter goes for the 10% ratio in the 80/10/5/5? None of it factors into the 80%?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you wouldn't be feeding a lot of chicken thighs as a main source , just because the ratio of meat to bone is too high in meat --- I am able to buy stewing hens and give the dogs the entire hen. They are a little on the scrawny side when put side by side with the artificially high white breast meat of a roasting bird . These birds are bred for high white meat ratio by the way , some so heavy that they have trouble standing. Wild birds do not have this much meat , and the meat they have is dark from the muscle actually being used.
If you were to feed the chicken drumstick that is a little less meat per bone.
If you were to feed chicken necks with the fatty skin ON that is pretty well ideal.
The fat is a source of omega 3 .

Yesterday my pups had a pound of chicken hearts mixed in with my oil and "greens" formula that I make up, plus a 2 pound block of ground chicken meat and bones .

They scarfed it down quickly. 

Today I went to the butcher and I bought beef shanks , had him saw the shanks in half. Each pup then , got one half of a beef shank. The marrow was exposed.
The meat is on the tough side . There is a lot of connective tissue which is good for ligaments and cartilage in the dogs. They were chewing and tearing away for hours. Would go crash in the corner for a snooze and then get at it again . Great for jaw development and setting dentition in deep.

Tomorrow they get some chicken frames .

It is the overall balance , not the rigid adherence to strict ratios each and every day.


Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Draugr said:


> Wait a sec...so a leg quarter goes for the 10% ratio in the 80/10/5/5? None of it factors into the 80%?


I don't follow that ratio because, for me, it's too hard to figure out the exact bone vs meat portions of each item.

The chicken leg quarter you buy can be VERY different (in size and composition) than the one I buy.

I have a page on my website that explains how to identify RMBs and, if you want, how to figure the bone vs meat:

Raw Meaty Bones

I personally follow this ratio:

50% Raw Meaty Bones (stuff with meat AND bone)
45% Muscle Meat (stuff without ANY bone)
5% Orgazn Meat
​I personally don't advocate feeding any non-meat items as part of a dog's REGULAR diet.

I do occasionally give my dogs green tripe and raw eggs and those get counted as Muscle Meat.


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

Lauri, I am using your VERY helpful site as my guide just starting. Thanks for sharing your insights.

Using your formulas, I have calculated that my 55 lb. pup with a 3-4 activity level needs about 1.3 lbs. (20 oz.) of raw per day. She's still getting two feedings per day, so that's about 10 oz. per feeding.

She started last night on 50% RMB, 45% MM, and 5% organ. This was a chicken drumstick (or 1/2 of a meaty thigh), about a half cup of ground beef, and a couple tablespoons of chicken liver.(The "drumstick" meals will have more bone than the "thigh" meals, but I figure this will balance out over time). She ate it all but the liver, so I'll substitute some hearts next time.

Do these ratios/weights sound about right for following your method?

Thanks again for your help!


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