# Touchy topic



## rocky30 (Feb 25, 2008)

This isn't meant to offend anyone what so ever I'm just worried. When my gsd and me where at a park today and African American lady walked by and he went nutts I dont know if its because I'm not in a real diverse community and he doesnt see much of other races. What should I do though.


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## WackyLackeys (Dec 10, 2007)

Our Border Collie doesn't like African Americans either. God knows it's nothing we taught her. Our neighbor down the street comes over to play with our kids and she's fine with him...we've lived here for 4 1/2 years so I guess she's used to him now. But if someone is walking down our street or something, she's goes nuts.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

i'd first try and pin point if there is a possibility that it was something else that set him off (was she a large woman, hat, sunglasses, unusual walk, etc). no matter if its one of those things or her skin tone - i'd make an effort to get him out around many different types of people, even if you dont run into AA's often - the more people he meets the more secure he'll be. i live in los angeles (every race imaginable here) and my boy was uneasy around AA men if they had extremely dark skin or were really husky & tall. i basically ignored the behavior (didnt show him a reaction good or bad, didnt comfort him or anything) and gradually he was fine. granted he wasnt barking at the people, just showing obvious fear and discomfort.

you dont have to respond to this, but you may want to think back and see if there was any change in your feelings or body language when the woman passed because he could have picked up on that.

how old is he? where'd you get him and at what age?


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

Socialize, socialize socialize.

If you can, find and ask folks to help-just going downtown or to a park. Give them some of your dog's favorite treats (as long as they're not messy!) You approach them and let your dog approach with you with lots of praise if he's behaving appropriately. I would not have the helper initially move toward the dog or hold the treat toward them but down by their side where the dog can see/sniff it. You control the situation to make sure your dog is acting calmly as he approaches. LOTS OF PRAISE while he's behaving.

You're worried about this being a cultural issue-that your dog doesn't like being around African-American women? Has he been in the vicinity prior or was this his first exposure. First off treat it like a reaction to an individual- and dogs can react like that. Kayla was introduced to our regular mailman early in life. She has negative reactions to one or two others who run his route once in a while-both Asian. She also has the reaction to one of our neighbors who is also Asian, elderly and does daily walks around the neighborhood. And then, she is the "everybody's my friend" unless they prove otherwise when we're at the parks or walking around.

Our regular mailman? Parks his truck and walks house to house delivering mail, has conversations/waves to most everyone. The two replacements? Drive house to house-go to the mailboxes with their eyes focused on their task at hand and almost no acknowledgement of the folks in the neighborhood. 

Our neighbor? There was one instance where she walk around our car and I think she and Kayla basically surprised one another. Kayla is friendly with her when we are out walking, but just seems to have the issue when she is walking past our house. 

I'll stop rambling now. Try to evalulate the situation from the individual issues first and try to keep in mind that some people do put out "vibes" that will set your dog off. They're individuals too and sometimes it could just the chemistry. But also, look at your socialization and maybe try to add another exercise to the socialization to increase their exposure and interactions.

Good Luck.


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## gshephlvr (Feb 21, 2006)

my great dane does this also. I have no clue but it is def. african americans. He has done it in several settings and it is always embarrasing. we rescued him so not sure what his background was.


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## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

Ive had 2 dogs with the same problem, I never understood where it stemed from. Sarge is that way, we had some people over one night and sarge is other wise a very well behaved dog. He barked and growled and raised a barrel of crap. I put him in the bedroom and closed the door and he tried to take the door down. It got so bad they were afraid to stay any longer.

They left, I let sarge out and he searched the house to make sure they were gone. Then he settled right down and went back to being himself. Ive seen this behavior on many occasions but I cant explain it any more then you can.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

My pup's initially barked/growled at people with hats, cause I never wore a hat.

My pup's initially barked at people with walkers/canes, cause I don't use one.

My pup's initially barked at horses cause I don't have any in my area.

All those instances as well as yours are EXACTLY THE SAME. It's just because it's a new situation with something looking different. I know that I look at ALL new issues as TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES to put on my thinking cap, grab the clicker and a huge baggie of real treats, to work out the new problem! 

Car rides, driving to new places, new sights, sounds (hey, try an elevator yet with your dog?????)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOG CLASSES!


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## mastercabman (Jun 11, 2007)

my 2 gsd does it to.not everyone.
i think it's because dogs does not see all the colors like we(human) do,and they can't make out the faces,so they get nervous.

let me ask this,does it get worst when it's dark?
sometime when they see a white person,at night,they react the same way.

this is kind of weird,because i was going to start a post like this,but i was not sure if it was going to be "touchy"for some.
i was driving with my 2gsd about 2-3 weeks ago,and i was stopped at a light.i was on the right lane.then a black women,about 50-60,was walking on the side walk,coming toward us and when they saw her,they went off! she stopped and looked at me,she was so scared that she went off the sidewalk into the grass a good 20-30 feets.
usually they don't act like this when they are close to afric/americ.
i take them to pet smart a lot,and there are been many occasion when a black person,including kids,stopped and petted my gsd.with no problem.


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## Annemarie (Feb 12, 2007)

Thorai has a huge problem with hats and hoodies, he turns into cujo when anyone approaching has a hat or hood.

DH wears hats all the time.............All our friends now know to remove their head wear!!

We had a irish setter who had the same problem with hats, he solved the problem himself. He would jump on whomever it was and remove the hat!!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

This is an interesting thread. I live in the south now. Either I have become almost color blind or most places I take the dogs have very few African Americans or people of any color beyond pale anglo. Now that I think about it, they don't seem to shop in the little strip mall down the hill where I used to take the girls to walk. They don't frequent PetsMart here to the extent that pale anglos do. 

I think I've just realized that central Arkansas is still socially segregated to a greater extent than I was aware.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: AnnemarieThorai has a huge problem with hats and hoodies, he turns into cujo when anyone approaching has a hat or hood.
> 
> DH wears hats all the time.............All our friends now know to remove their head wear!!


I think I'd go the opposite route on this one - have EVERYONE wear hats, all the time, and have them be treat dispensers. I'd rather desensitize my dogs to something that initially freaks them by having it become a routine part of their environment. As MRL said, use it as a training opportunity to create a positive association with new, potentially scary things. People in hats = freeze dried liver, or bits of cheese.


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## Annemarie (Feb 12, 2007)

Thanks Cassidy's mom, never thought of that approach.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I was at a Suzanne Clothier seminar a year ago, and one of the dogs she was working with was reactive to other dogs, and alerted to the sound of jingling tags on collars. The woman who brought the dog in had two other dogs, and she'd taken their tags off so as not to set this particular dog off every time they walked around the house. 

Suzanne's advice? Put tags on everything, of course! Back onto the other dogs, back onto this dog, on doorknobs, on cabinet doors, on everybody's shoelaces - so that instead of the sound meaning "there's another dog nearby, better BARKBARKBARK!", it meant nothing anymore. Just one of those ambient sounds that are so pervasive to the environment that the dog would eventually learn to tune it out.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

Funny enough I was on the receiving end of this once. I am half Mexican and half German, but to look at me I am light skinned with dark hair. We used to have a neighbor whose dog hated me!! The neighbors were African American. After having the dog go nuts a few times and me wondering what was going on, they told me that their dog was uncomfortable around white people. LoL! I almost died I thought it was so funny since it is common to have a dog that is hesitant around people with darker skin. I felt bad for my neighbors since they were SO embarassed. 

I started to go over daily just to say hi and each time I brought something for the dog...chewy treats, a meatball, etc. The neighbors thought I had a death wish since I was "training" their dog to like me and they never asked me to do it. After about a month the dog just stopped. I went to the door one day and she was fine. She stood there waiting for her treat everytime she saw me (and probably every other white person she encountered) but she was fine.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I have seen this sort of reaction in many dogs over the years. People of different races look different and smell different. Darker skinned people also can be much harder for a dog to read because it is more difficult for the dog to discern facial features and expression. These differences from what the dog considers the norm can be confusing and intimidating and lead to this sort of reaction. Add to that, people of different cultures, ethnic and socio/economic backgrounds often do not have much, if any, experience or positive exposure with dogs and thus can have a dislike or fear of large dogs, especially those of "aggressive" breeds, which a dog will certainly pick up on and will make the dog even more likely to react.

As with anything else, positive socialization and exposure will help tremendously.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Morgan used to be that way, which was NOT COOL. I just kept socializing her, making a point of always stopping to talk to the black lady 2 doors down. It goes away eventually.


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## daviddrena (Dec 25, 2006)

Maybe your dogs are just racial...


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: daviddrenaMaybe your dogs are just racial...


and if an owner is okay with that, maybe they are too


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: MandalayI started to go over daily just to say hi and each time I brought something for the dog...chewy treats, a meatball, etc. The neighbors thought I had a death wish since I was "training" their dog to like me and they never asked me to do it. After about a month the dog just stopped. I went to the door one day and she was fine. She stood there waiting for her treat everytime she saw me (and probably every other white person she encountered) but she was fine.


That's classic counter-conditioning! The dog's emotional response to you was retrained into something more positive because every time she saw you, good things happened for her. It can take time and patience, but it's a terrific technique, no matter what the source of fear or stress.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:I think I'd go the opposite route on this one - have EVERYONE wear hats, all the time, and have them be treat dispensers. I'd rather desensitize my dogs to something that initially freaks them by having it become a routine part of their environment. As MRL said, use it as a training opportunity to create a positive association with new, potentially scary things. People in hats = freeze dried liver, or bits of cheese.


That's exactly how I go about my socialization days! I get a tingle of excitement now when I see my dog suddenly avoid, or act off, or tuck their tail, or just not be comfortable.

TRAINING OPPORTUNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What can I, as the intelligent one







do to 'work' thru the situaiton so my pup gets turned around completely! Clickers and food work most of the time. TIME is a help, distance, asking people to help, and going out of my way to set my pup up for similar situations.

Permanent avoidance is never an option. No learning there. For my dog to get over it. For me to train my pup to be comfortable. It may be the easy way for me, but not (in the long run) helping my dog.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

You know, I'm the only person of color in my kennel club....seriously. There's one other woman of an ethnic background that attends, and she's asian, so her skin is close to that of all the white people in club.

I've had SEVERAL dogs have an averse reaction to me. It wasn't my hat, it wasn't my clothing...it truly was me. Our community is growing more and more diverse, and there are a great many more black people around, the fact of that matter is, in a rather large kennel club, I am the only person of color...and it throws dogs off.

One of the instructors I works with always makes it a point to tell her classes to socialize their dogs with me. I don't take offense or consider it racist because it's true...the dogs have a "WTF!?!?" moment. I deal with it. It's just one of those things, and nothing to be offended by (IME and Opinion).


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

My first GSD Zeus did not like African American men. Wasn't afraid of them either, and there were a few he was O.K. with, but for the most part he did not like them. That dog went everywhere and did everything and met everyone. It just seemed that a lot of African American men were afraid of him, and his general opinion was that if you were afraid of him you had a reason to be afraid (of course unless you were a child).


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

It does have a lot to do with socialization. You can see it with dog to dog interactions as well. I know my puppy saw her first floppy eared dog and was like WTF? Is that a dog like me? I was pretty sure dogs looked like German Shepherds...

I know a Dachshund who would run and bark at Asian people and a pug who discriminated against the elderly. Different people look and smell differently and a dog that's unfamilar might be unsure of where this new thing fits into his view of the world. 

I think sometimes bad experiences can also generalize. I've seen rescue dogs who hate deep voiced men, and cower when they come around. The assumption is usually that someone was a heavy handed with the dog. I also had a cat that hated a certian pair of brown dress shoes. Other shoes not a problem, brown dress shoes would send the cat running to hide. Animals are weird.


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## Maryn (Feb 15, 2008)

I've got the same issue with Reich.

At the gas station sunday all kinds of people walked by. Big bald guys with tattoos, kids, old ladies, etc etc. She just watched them.

Two african american women walked out of the door and she went off. Scared the crap out of them.

My mom had the same issue with her previous GSDs as well, and she lived in the city back then, where the dogs saw them every day.

My grandpap was convinced all german dogs had this issue. He had the same experiences with Great Danes and Boxers.


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## Mai (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm sorry but this sounds totally ridiculous to me. If anything dogs are reacting to the energy they feel from their handler. Period. If some people's dogs are afraid of black men maybe they are picking up something the handler doesn't realize ihe or she is giving off. My breeder's dogs haven't been around black people and they were completely friendly and nice. My dogs have never been afraid of white people or any other race. Actually my last dog wasn't socialized very well because our lack of knowledge. He was only around us and we're African American. But anytime he saw anybody he just wanted to play with them. I think it's because we never had a hidden fear of these people. People are people. Yes, this is a touchy subject and I for one wished it was never brought up. I've really enjoyed this forum but this topic, come on people. Are you serious?


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Mai, I'm sorry if you took offense at the topic but I do find it is sad but true. Please read Xeph's post. With my dog, she was brought as a puppy into a very diverse neighborhood. Seriously, why would I have bought a house here if I had a problem - a problem I might be subconsciously projecting onto my dogs. 

Personally I think it's less to do with skin color than scent. Not scent that we as humans can smell, something in body chemistry. The same biologically based reasons people of different ethnic groups are more likely to get certain illnesses. 

One of my dogs was ethnically indifferent. His problem was with drunks. By that I don't mean people having a few social drinks, I mean people you walk by in the morning and you can smell the stale booze sweating out. (NOT GOOD considering I live in a college neighborhood!)


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: MaiI'm sorry but this sounds totally ridiculous to me. If anything dogs are reacting to the energy they feel from their handler. Period.


the first part i viewed more as your opinion, but by adding "period" you seem pretty certain so i'm just going to explain my experience a little better and how i (an african american) was able to get thru this thread unaffected. as i stated in this thread as well as another, even i have had issues with my newest addition Tilden (never had problems with my other dogs) regarding not race, but a difference in appearance & complexion.

a few weeks after i adopted him, when Tilden was 10months old he had a fearful reaction to a) an african american _friend_ of mine (i place emphasis on the fact that he's a friend to show that there was no vibe or energy coming from me that the dog picked up on). as a man who is taller, darker, and larger than i, it could have been any of those things that set my dog off... next is b) a delivery guy who was in the courtyard of my apartment building, i went to the balcony where my dog was barking to find that the guy was also a tall, dark, husky, AA man. i was not present to have a reaction to this guy, so again - no vibes for my dog to pick up. i'll also add that people walk in and out of that courtyard all day and he normally didnt bark. last was a darker skinned israeli neighbor of mine with bushy hair, sideburns, beard, moustache, etc - my dog was also uncomfortable around him.

so i dont discount your theory of it being a possibility that the owner is putting out a certain vibe (if you notice in my very first reply i mentioned that). but also, in my experience that hasnt been the case, nor has it been directly linked to race (and the scent of certain races) because like ive said, i'm AA, and my neighbor israeli.

its nothing that can be figured out or that anyone has a quick answer for. the best thing is to socialize the dog as much as you can around as many different types of people as you can and hope for the best. i can also say that anyone of any race who's extremely tall, large, with a hat and shades will likely provoke a reaction (at this point Tilden just stares) from my dog but instead of being embarrassed or nervous or dissecting the situation, i calm him and use it as a training/socialization opportunity as long as the other person doesnt mind.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodderits nothing that can be figured out or that anyone has a quick answer for. the best thing is to socialize the dog as much as you can around as many different types of people as you can and hope for the best. i can also say that anyone of any race who's extremely tall, large, with a hat and shades will likely provoke a reaction (at this point Tilden just stares) from my dog but instead of being embarrassed or nervous or dissecting the situation, i calm him and use it as a training/socialization opportunity as long as the other person doesnt mind.


I agree - who knows why, and really, who cares why? The 'fix' is the same regardless of the reason your dog flips out, or what they flip out about. Could be babies in strollers, shrieking toddlers, people using crutches or in a wheelchair, using an umbrella, or wearing a parka just as easily as someone of a different race. Ideally, your dog would be socialized to people of all ages, sizes and races as much as you possibly can. And noisy garbage can lids, and the mailman, and fire hydrants, and big cardboard boxes, and crinkly plastic bags, loud noises like sirens and thunder....you get the idea.


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## daviddrena (Dec 25, 2006)

I honest and truly don't believe there are dogs out there partial to african americans because of skin color. In some cases african americans are not the darker ppl. There are native americans in some cases darker than blacks and there are latinos sometimes darker than blacks I think to say your dogs hates blacks because of the skin color is crazy...


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## Mai (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm not going to debate over this. Everyone is going to stick by their opinion and experience. I have never experience this with my dogs or other people's dogs. I have never heard of anyone else experiencing this with their dogs. It just seems strange to me that so many people have dogs on this forum that are afraid of African American people. I guess I just better hope my new puppy looks past my skin, my brother's skin and love us for who we are. What I'll do now is simply refrain from this thread.


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## elrombo (Feb 16, 2008)

I personally think it is how the owner of the dog reacts and the dog feels your reaction. My dogs have a problem with people staring at us or walking behind us. 

A gentleman stopped me the other day to say he admired my dogs. I told him I couldn't believe the dogs weren't barking at him. They were really relaxed and just laying at my feet. He told he was a minister also he was black. LOL!!


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: MaiI'm sorry but this sounds totally ridiculous to me. If anything dogs are reacting to the energy they feel from their handler. Period. If some people's dogs are afraid of black men maybe they are picking up something the handler doesn't realize ihe or she is giving off. My breeder's dogs haven't been around black people and they were completely friendly and nice. My dogs have never been afraid of white people or any other race. Actually my last dog wasn't socialized very well because our lack of knowledge. He was only around us and we're African American. But anytime he saw anybody he just wanted to play with them. I think it's because we never had a hidden fear of these people. People are people. Yes, this is a touchy subject and I for one wished it was never brought up. I've really enjoyed this forum but this topic, come on people. Are you serious?


People are people, but dogs are not people. Whether it be from stress traveling down leash from handler (unfortunate if so), fearful behavior from the person in question or unfarmiliarity of African American's (scent or appearance) on a dog's part some dogs do act differently towards different races. In my experience with this, it has always been based on the fearful behavior the individual in question displays, not on my or my dogs part. All of the African American men my male Zeus was around seemed to be deathly afraid of GSD's and acted accordingly save one... who my dog LOVED.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

> Quote: I have never experience this with my dogs or other people's dogs. I have never heard of anyone else experiencing this with their dogs. It just seems strange to me that so many people have dogs on this forum that are afraid of African American people. I guess I just better hope my new puppy looks past my skin, my brother's skin and love us for who we are.


Dogs will react with fear to new or different things that they have not been socialized around as puppies. It has nothing to do with black people, per se. A dog OWNED by a black person who never saw a white person before would be inclinded to react the same way if they saw a white person for the first time. 

Or it could be a person with a hat. Or a person eating a sandwich. Or a person holding a baby. Or a baby in a stroller. Or a person wearing perfume. Or a person using crutches. If any of these are NEW to the dog, they will recognize the difference. And potentially react with fear. Skin color doesn't matter to (most) people. But it is an obvious "difference" to dogs. 

Dogs don't recognize the similarities among people. They recognize the differences--and they go by scent and sight. 

This is why it is important to take an active role in socializing puppies around ALL these different kinds of people before the age of 18 weeks (and continue the socializing afterwards for life.) 

Just because you haven't experienced a situation where your dog reacted to a new person dosen't mean it isn't a common thing. It is. And it is one of the key reasons for puppy socialization with as wide a group of people as owners can manage--every age, size, color, and condition of people. 

BTW--my dogs aren't afraid of African American people in the least. Because I made a point to introduce them to the many people of color who live in my neighborhood.


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## slapshot (Feb 2, 2007)

Great topic! My 14 week old male, now feeling more secure and testing his boundaries, has just started to get expressive with people and dogs. We take him to the school with our girls where he meets all sorts of people. The dark skinned Hatian crossing gaurd with the big red sign he waves at the cars while he walks "us" across the street - no problem. But, the older hispanic lady in the hoodie and dark glasses with marked shuffle - the construction worker smoking a cigarette with mirrored glasses and challenging stance - the middle aged 6.5' black friend of a neighbor's getting out of his car blasting rap music and striking an imposing posture - evoked quite a loud response from such a little dog. And this was not a backing off response either, this was a bark and move towards the disturbing sight. 

This is much different than my last GSDs, which were not so vocal and presents a whole new learning experience/opportunity. Obviously we'll have our hands full socializing as he is no shriking violet or mellow man, but . . . in each scenario, it was a new puzzling new encouter. And though two were with people of another color, I would have thought the crossing gaurd would have easily set him off. But, no, so . . . many exceptions to the seeming rule, though not surprising they go off when one factors in the unfamiliarty and body language aspects.


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## slapshot (Feb 2, 2007)

Oh, and one more interesting observation, at least from our camp. Our daughter age 10 has a very close friend who is African American, and from day one Udo has not so much as even blinked when she comes over, just another fun kid to play with in his mind.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

My last super-mellow, clear-headed GSD (adopted as an adult)reacted only to one type of person with soft, wary growls-- firefighters fresh from work. The scent of a candle, a campfire, a fire in a gas stove, etc are all "normal fire" scents. The scent of a burning home or building to him was not. It represented danger.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

I was out somewhere just this week and someone asked me what kind of dog Lucy was. I said GSD, and the response was "Oh, they hate African Americans" I said mine sure didn't, as she proceeded to beat him senseless with her tail wagging.
I had read that it frequently was a problem and where I live there aren't many African Americans, so I sought them out for socialization. I even went so far to tell them Lucy had not met many people with their skin color and I wanted to make sure she loves them as much as everybody else. I was afraid I might get some negative reaction but not once did anyone get offended and they were happy to help. There was never any reaction from Lucy, other than unadulterated glee at yet another new person to meet!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Sneaker was a very friendly dog, and the only person she didn't much like (barked at him relentlessly when he came to the door), was a friend of ours who had a side job doing yardwork. He'd come over every other week to mow the lawn, and we're pretty sure that she associated him with the loud noises his equipment produced. She'd bark at him even when he was there for a party, although she would eventually settle down and be fine. But since he's the only friend she EVER barked at we assumed it was due to the lawn mower, blower and edger that she usually saw him with.

Dena & Keefer are also very friendly with people, even total strangers, but there is also one friend they want nothing to do with. We don't see Ron very often, just occasionally at parties, and he is a big guy who talks <span style='font-size: 14pt'>REALLY LOUDLY ALL THE TIME</span>. Seriously, this guy's normal tone of voice is a yell - nobody ever taught him to use his inside voice, lol! And when he's had a couple of beers he gets even louder, and uses broad gestures. He's not a bad guy, and he loves animals (keeps joking that he's going to come steal our dogs, and maybe one of the cats too, and he always asks about them when we see him - <span style='font-size: 14pt'>"How are those dogs of yours?" </span>







), but no matter how much he tries to get the dogs to come to him they have NO interest. I'm pretty sure they think he's yelling AT them, which they don't care for much.







If we could get him to sit quietly in a chair I'm sure they'd eventually go visit him, but when he's yelling at them to come over they look at him like he's got something growing out of his head!


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## acurajane (May 21, 2008)

My first did the same and my currend GSD pup is showing the same thing. my dogs are socialized well and sometimes it just happens.


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