# Can a GSD "point"?



## Linck (Mar 25, 2013)

When we were planning on getting our first dog, we were choosing between GSD, Retriever, or a pointer. My husband wanted a pointer because he hunts. Obviously we came down to GSD and we have not regret one second since we got Lincoln. My second choice was a golden retriever but hubby didn't wanna mess with the hair. So when I left with a pointer or GSD, my choice was clear just because GSD is so much prettier (to me anyway). 

So I kinda knew this may come up later down the road and sure enough it did. Now that Lincoln become more reliable, my husband asked if he can be trained to point. If not we will have to get a pointer puppy sometime in the future. He says it in the joking way. But I am a little shook up about second puppy. Obviously thats a whole other topic to do research on. I'm just wondering... 

*Can GSD be trained to point? Can GSD hunt?*


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't know a thing about hunting, but when the ball disappears into the pool skimmer, Hans will go there and point with his snout, LOL. Kind of freezes and shows me with his nose where the ball is. He is right every single time.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I think there have been some GSD that have been trained to hunt, but they would be very much in the minority. Pointers have been selectively bred to do their job. And the work that the GSD has been selectively bred to do is very, very different.

The GSD is hardwired to key in to movement and then to do "something" with whatever is moving, to engage it in some physical way. Their minds just don't work in the way that a pointing dog's does. Or a retriever. I guess you could train a GSD to alert to a bird like they would alert to an article on a track? But I would think that their alert would spook the bird into flight? Kind of like Springers flushing the game? But unlike a Springer, I don't think there are many GSDs that have a mouth soft enough to retrieve the downed bird and return it in one piece.

If your husband didn't want to deal with the shedding of a Golden, what is he going to think about the shedding of your German Shepherd? 
Sheilah


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Sunflowers said:


> I don't know a thing about hunting, but when the ball disappears into the pool skimmer, Hans will go there and point with his snout, LOL. Kind of freezes and shows me with his nose where the ball is. He is right every single time.


Yes! The same look my dog gets when the ball rolls under something and he can't reach it! But...that is only telling me that I need to get the ball for him because he can't reach it. I don't think he would point to it and hold the point if he were able to actually reach it himself.

There was a thread a while back from someone who wanted to either buy a GSD puppy and train it to duck hunt, or he had purchased a puppy already and he wanted to train it to duck hunt. I wonder what happened? Was he able to train the puppy to hunt?
Sheilah


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## Linck (Mar 25, 2013)

*@Sunflowers:*



> I don't know a thing about hunting, but when the ball disappears into the pool skimmer, Hans will go there and point with his snout, LOL. Kind of freezes and shows me with his nose where the ball is. He is right every single time.


Wow really? Did you train him/her to do that? 

*@sit,stay
*



> If your husband didn't want to deal with the shedding of a Golden, what is he going to think about the shedding of your German Shepherd?
> Sheilah


When we were choosing a breed, my husband said if he has to deal with shedding he would rather deal with GSD. Plus, Lincoln is a short haired.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

sit said:


> Yes! The same look my dog gets when the ball rolls under something and he can't reach it! But...that is only telling me that I need to get the ball for him because he can't reach it. I don't think he would point to it and hold the point if he were able to actually reach it himself.


This is correct. He would get it if he could.


Linck said:


> *@Sunflowers:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, he does it on his own.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Cyra would freeze and point just before the chase. It is part of the hunt sequence and it was momentary. She was one, unfortunately, with the kill instinct.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It's a very tough thing to teach a GSD to hunt. Most "training" involves teaching the dog to use their NATURAL skills and abilities to benefit the handler. This is why there has been selective breeding and the creation of so many breeds. It doesn't take a lot of work to teach a GSD to herd...it takes work to teach a GSD to herd where the shepherd wants the sheep. Same with hunting dogs, it doesn't take a lot of work to teach them to hunt in their respective ability, just to teach them to control that drive for the benefit of the hunter. With a retriever...you don't have to teach them to retrieve things, just teach them to retrieve the right things.

Depending on your GSD you might get it to hunt, but if its got any amount of prey drive it will be much more likely to chase the prey than to just point it out to you. I don't even think there's a written standard on how to go about training such a thing because any type of correction for "chasing" could easily be misconstrued as a correction for "finding or reacting." That communication hurdle will be way too big in my opinion to be able to do this, but I'm sure its possible at some level. It will probably take you YEARS to train this where as with a pointer it would've taken you months.


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

I think a good GSD can be trained to do just about anything dogs can be trained to do given a really good trainer (except for size limitations). Years, ago a poster in the Leerburg forum said their GSDs went hunting with them and retrieved ducks just like their Labs. The difference is the ducks came back a bit more chomped up with the GSD than with the Lab LOL since the GSD has a "hard" mouth and retrievers understandably have soft mouths. I'm willing to bet a good trainer can indeed train a GSD to point, albeit the end product will probably not be as good as pointers that have been bred to do it for centuries.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Ocean said:


> I think a good GSD can be trained to do just about anything dogs can be trained to do given a really good trainer (except for size limitations). Years, ago a poster in the Leerburg forum said their GSDs went hunting with them and retrieved ducks just like their Labs. The difference is the ducks came back a bit more chomped up with the GSD than with the Lab LOL


I read this, too. Had a good chuckle.


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## Linck (Mar 25, 2013)

martemchik said:


> It's a very tough thing to teach a GSD to hunt. Most "training" involves teaching the dog to use their NATURAL skills and abilities to benefit the handler. This is why there has been selective breeding and the creation of so many breeds. It doesn't take a lot of work to teach a GSD to herd...it takes work to teach a GSD to herd where the shepherd wants the sheep. Same with hunting dogs, it doesn't take a lot of work to teach them to hunt in their respective ability, just to teach them to control that drive for the benefit of the hunter. With a retriever...you don't have to teach them to retrieve things, just teach them to retrieve the right things.
> 
> Depending on your GSD you might get it to hunt, but if its got any amount of prey drive it will be much more likely to chase the prey than to just point it out to you. I don't even think there's a written standard on how to go about training such a thing because any type of correction for "chasing" could easily be misconstrued as a correction for "finding or reacting." That communication hurdle will be way too big in my opinion to be able to do this, but I'm sure its possible at some level. It will probably take you YEARS to train this where as with a pointer it would've taken you months.


This makes so much sense. When Lincoln chase the bird, he would stare and point but very briefly before take off. I don't want to confuse him either. I guess I'll just look for a pointer puppy when the times come. See, I was expecting to replace the carpet by the time Lincoln is fully trained and become a grown up. Maybe I should consider getting that other puppy sooner.... so I can replace it all at once :crazy:


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

If you want to nip that in the bud, the best time to correct is just before the point, at the stare. It is all a very fast sequence but you can see it. Always be tuned into your dog staring at anything.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Yeah and remember...the retrieve is part of prey drive. Most of our GSDs have the drive to retrieve things but yes...some of them do chomp down once or twice so a real duck or bird would come back a little softer than originally found. But I do think that is something that is possible to train...the point...is a very "special" move done by a small amount of dogs. Not sure how you can teach it and then prevent the chase afterwards.

Like jocoyn stated...you can stop the chasing (I did when it comes to squirrels) by correcting as soon as your dog stares/kind of points at something.

BTW...my dog also points at a tennis ball that he cannot reach. If he could reach it, he'd get it. And a shrub/bush/tall grass is usually not something that prevents him from getting to a tennis ball...so if there was an animal in there, it wouldn't stop him from going after it as well.


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## DixieGSD (Aug 22, 2012)

If you do teach your shepherd to hunt, let us know how it goes! My husband and I have a friend that want's to teach his shepherd how to retrieve waterfowl. Last year was his first time going out there, and he just nosed to birds and wouldn't pick them up. But the friend is pretty determined to teach his dog lol.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> If you want to nip that in the bud, the best time to correct is just before the point, at the stare. It is all a very fast sequence but you can see it. Always be tuned into your dog staring at anything.


If someone had a camera that has a quick shudder speed, you can see the scenario clear as day. It is really cool to see the body language unfold before you. You see things through the camera that you don't catch by the naked eye.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

yes the gsd can hunt, retreive, stalk/point and also tree - i have one so i know. these traits are not as pronounced in selectively bred dogs but every dog born possesses all these traits more or less - what is diminished by selective breeding can be compensated for to a certain extent by learned behaviour, my gsd is becoming an excellent strike dog due to his speed and heightened senses, he cannot match my cur tho in brains/cunning in the hunt and hence is not as effective a hunter when the going gets tough, hunting needs a variety of skill sets that no one dog can possess it's about putting togther an effective pack that compensate/enhance and support each other with their different skill sets.

i think that the biggest problem with my gsd in a hunting role is that he like all WL gsd has been selectively bred for high prey drive which ironically is a disadvantage when hunting actual prey, it's different to responding to the movement of a rag.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Linck said:


> *@Sunflowers:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I've heard of GSDs learning to point but not for a long time. Also, short coated shepherds IME tend to shed more noticeably. The running joke is german shepherds shed twice a year. the first six months and the last six months of the year.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think he's looking in the direction of where the ball is and
he can smell it. that's different than pointing but on second
thought maybe that's how a GSD points, umm. :crazy:



Sunflowers said:


> I don't know a thing about hunting, but when the ball disappears into the pool skimmer, Hans will go there and point with his snout, LOL. Kind of freezes and shows me with his nose where the ball is. He is right every single time.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i don't think a GSD will point like a bird dog but i think
a GSD would give you a signal.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Actually my little female did. Looked every bit like a classic pointer. But the transition to chase was lightning fast.

Now, Beau when the ball goes over the fence, runs to the gate, sits and taps the latch with his paw so I can let him out to go get it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Just an observation with mine(I have tons of ducks/geese around all the time)... I have a GSD and a golden retriever. The GSD will do a self stack and stare when she is watching something, whether that is a person or a duck and this would be her way of pointing. The golden puts his paw up and nose in the air, which is definitely pointing. They both can spot a duck pretty quickly. Both of them will watch them when they are flying over head, but the GSD is more interested in the flying duck


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

i can say ducks are more intelligent than dogs, my dogs fall for the lame duck routine around the young'ns everytime, funny to watch and the duck always wins.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Idk, really. But I'm practicing on my bow, and hope to have a dog beside me when I can draw a legal hunting weight. And I know I don't have a dog today that will hunt with me. But if I had to choose among my pet rescues for a hunting partner, it would definitely be my Weimaraner. She points naturally. Whenever she catches a scent, she points and her muscles tense... And she's delightful to watch. If I had her from a pup, she'd be perfect. As it it, she only points the neighbor's squirrels.. Just sayin. If you want a hunting dog, why not branch out and get a hunting breed. They're pretty!! Not nearly as biddable, but if you want a dog naturally suited for your activities, well, they're out there. 

Not that the GSD can't, but get the dog you want 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

if you teach them they can do almost anything. Is going against instincts though. Thy want to get animals not point at them.


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## Linck (Mar 25, 2013)

Yeah yall are right. Lincoln would never point long enough. He just wanna go get it.

I want to raise him to be a GSD, not something else he is not meant to be. We will probably get a gundog later down the road when Lincoln pass this puppy phase. We want to give him full attention before we share our attention to another puppy.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Here's my issue with the "you can teach a dog anything." You sure can...but to get it to be reliable, and in a time frame when it becomes useful is very difficult. It's much easier to take advantage of their natural instincts than to force a square peg into a round hole.

I remember when my boy was younger we were at a family gathering. They have a putting green in their basement and one of the youngsters was putting. Well my boy kept on jumping on the balls and not letting them go anywhere. He has very high ball drive, and for me to teach him not to go after balls would be very difficult and take a long time. At this point, I can get him to stay for quite a bit with a ball being thrown/rolled around, but at that age...it wasn't happening. It was much easier for me to ask the boy not to putt (even though it upset him until he found another activity to do) than to expect my dog not to chase the ball. It is also one of the harder things I've had to teach him as it is so much against his instinct. Other things...that could be considered "harder" obedience exercises (directive jumping, going out, retrieving), were much easier to teach than a stay while a ball was in play.


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## GermanShepherdDog (Mar 26, 2012)

The German Shepherd Dog is not a hunting dog and is not meant for "pointing". Every breed of dog in history was bred for a specific purpose. The German Shepherds instinct isn't to "point". If you get a Pointer, its first instinct will be to "point". It will be much harder to train a German Shepherd to "point" because it's not what they know, it's not what they were bred for, it's not one of their natural instincts. With a Pointer, it would be so much easier because it is what they know, they were bred for hunting, it is one of their first natural instincts and they have the ability. The thing about the Pointer is that its first instinct is to point, all the dog needs is just guidance and steps through the way.


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## Sandra Heims (Jul 9, 2018)

So I know it's years after the fact. But I have a female working line has who has always pointed naturally. The weirdest part is that before I got German shepherds I had a German shorthair pointer mixed with black lab who pointed. I loved him very much but after he died I ended up with one gsd and then another. His name was Kia (Persian name meaning king protector and defender. So when I got my second gsd, a black gsd, I named her Kiana, the female version of the name. They have never met, but she looks similar in many ways to him and even though I never taught her how... She does in fact point. It might be hard to see because I have her in a red shirt. She has imported czech and German lines to my understanding of her pedigree. I didn't know how else to post this video of it so I uploaded it to my Google drive. 









20201006_212005.mp4







drive.google.com


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I know this is old but @Sandra Heims, I watched your vid. Please consider and at least research the effects a laser pointer has on German Shepherds. It can very quickly turn into OCD and once that behavior sets in, nearly impossible to stop.

Also best to start your own thread about the subject matter if you come across very old thread of interest.

You pup is beautiful and I would hate to see a bad behavior ruin a good dog. And yup, he is pointing. If you do start your own thread, I will expand on the pointing also.


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## Sandra Heims (Jul 9, 2018)

@Heartandsoul 

Thank you, that would be wonderful for any explanations and Tips on what I can do better. I did post a new thread here!









My gsd is pointing.


I posted this as a reply elsewhere but it was recommended to make my own thread as it was an older post. But I have a female working line has who has always pointed naturally. The weirdest part is that before I got German shepherds I had a German shorthair pointer mixed with black lab who...




www.germanshepherds.com


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