# given up hope on my dog



## megs90 (Jun 16, 2013)

I have a male german shepherd who is a year old now. He has been aggressive since we got him as a puppy. We have paid for about 3 sessions of private training with him an he has gotten a lot better but still really mean to me. He listens to my husband but will even bite him if my husband tries to put him in his cage. He is in the military an I have been left alone with the dog an feel like I can controll him an he is controlling my life. I can't discipline the dog or he will show his teeth at me an try to bite me. When I leave for work he acts sad but then I went up to the window to say bye an he showed his teeth an acted like he wanted to attack me. He recently chased after a little girl an the cops were called. I fear that one day he will really hurt someone an my husband dosent want to get rid of him. I have no idea what to do this dog is too strong an crazy for me I sprained my ankle tonight an got a bloody elbow from him running into me. Does it sound like there's hope for this dog to get better or once a mean dog always a mean dog?


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

He needs a strong handler that isn't intimidated by him. Is the private trainer you are working with versed in this type temperament? If you don't think you can handle him, best to get an eval and see if he can be placed with a better match. In the meantime, getting him use to wearing a muzzle will be the safest for all.


----------



## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

First off, welcome to the forum.

I am sure a lot of people with more expertise than me will chime in. But...

It would be a lot easier to give advice and feedback if you elaborated a bit more on what a typical day-in-the-life of you and the dog is like as well as specific training techniques you have used to date, etc...


----------



## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

What did your trainer say with regard to a prognosis?

Aggression comes in so many forms that no one online will be able to give you advice with regard to that.

But if you are not comfortable then this will certainly not end well. Perhaps getting him conditioned to a muzzle would be a good idea while you decide what to do with the dog.

I have heard of situations that were described as similar to yours where the dog went to another home with experience or back to the breeder and the dog ended up not having any problems so it can depend on the experience of the people involved sometimes.

Where did you get this dog from?


----------



## megs90 (Jun 16, 2013)

The trainer said he was just a nervous dog and that he wasn't socialized well as a puppy. We got him from a breeder an also We got him a dogtra training collar to help him an it does help but lately it dosent seem to phase him when he does something bad. He snaps at me daily he dosent listen to me at all an he pretty much gets to rule the house an do whatever he wants because he will bite me and show his teeth if I try to put him in his cage or make him leave the room. He knows I'm scared of him he's 100lbs an stronger then me an even if I act like I am in controll he dosent care. I don't understand why he's so mean all I try to do is love him an he's just mean.


----------



## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

What kind of exercise and/or positive engagement with you/others in the family does the dog get?


----------



## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

I am not sure how exactly you are using the e collar or what methods you used to introduce it but I would recommend you do not use it until things get sorted out with regard to the aggression.

I would find a new trainer that will do an assessment of his behavior and the situation. You sound like you are about done and in that situation the trainer really needs to discuss what they think it will take to change the behavior, whether they think you and your family are capable of this and talk about the chances of re-homing the dog if needed and of course how you feel about this.

When he bites does the break skin?

I would also contact the breeder. Was there any type of contract or anything about returning the dog to the breeder if for any reason you could not keep him.

Do you have a leash on him at all times in the house when you are home? Or how do you manage him when he growls at you or tries to bite?


----------



## megs90 (Jun 16, 2013)

Well when my husband is home he takes the dog with him everywhere an takes him on hikes an plays with him all the time we would take him to the dog park once a week and were always giving him treats an penut butter. But our backyard isn't fenced an after the cops were called cause of him chasing the little girl I can't take the risk of him going off our property so I haven't taken him outside an I let him go in the dog run which is pretty big.


----------



## megs90 (Jun 16, 2013)

Most of the time he does not break sin when he bites but has sometimes. Also I don't keep a leash on him in the house so when he tries to bite or growl I just use the low setting on the collar.


----------



## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

LifeofRiley said:


> What kind of exercise and/or positive engagement with you/others in the family does the dog get?


I'm no expert, but this is an exellent question. ^

Does the dog act out like your describing during your private lesson? If so, how or what does the instructor do to correct the dog? Has the dog been this way since when? What commands does the dog know now? My amateur suggestion would be to look at a different trainer. I would call and talk to some different ones and ask for references if possible. years of experience, accomplishments on training ect. Just to make sure they know what they are doing. My dog trainer has vast experience and a good number of years doing this. She had an apprentice shadowing for our first four sessions in training. Then she went on her own. There was a vast difference between our regular trainer and her trainee. Nothing against her trainee, she just didn't have as much experience as our regular trainer.

Just a personal observation. Not all trainers are created equal.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Sounds like you've got a dog that was never properly trained, that doesn't respect you as it's handler, and that you seem to fear - and rightfully so. That's pretty much a recipe for disaster.

You really either need to get another professional trainer in there that has experience with this breed and behavior or you need to find a proper home for this dog. Something has to change.


----------



## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

megs90, your dog is young and exuberant. From your posts, I doubt he is being "mean," more likely the mouthing is a mix of attention seeking and frustration. 

I am not saying that the mouthing behavior is not problematic. But, based on what you have described, the methods you are using are probably only making it worse. It doesn't sound like you are working on modeling the behaviors you want... only punishing ones that bother you.

PM Lou Castle on this forum. He would probably offer a lot of great advice on proper use of e-collars!

In the end, if your household circumstances do not allow you to spend the time and energy needed to make your dog a good canine citizen then please consult with folks in rescue about options for re-homing. 

Whatever you do, do not just say, "he's mean", and be gone with him.... to the pound, to the vet to be PTS, etc.... Based on what you have described, I would bet that this dog would do great in another home that has a bit more experience with the breed.


----------



## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

I would not use the e collar to correct displays of aggression. Having a leash on him would be much safer and I like to use the British or Mendota style slip leads. Having this type of leash on can keep you safe if he ever does try to bite you.

Of course it is hard to get a proper impression over the internet but I really do not like the situation you are in with this dog.

Are you at the point where you are considering not keeping the dog? 

Based on what you say about his biting I think re homing to an experienced home would be the best option for him. I certainly do not feel he is without hope from what you say. People can easily get in over their heads with certain dogs. The best way to go about that would be through the breeder. Hopefully they were not a BYB.

If you say where you live perhaps someone could recommend a trainer that could do an assessment.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Your dog needs to learn how to act correctly on leash before you can work on off leash stuff with an e-collar. 

First build a bond with your dog. That is the most important part of training. You don't want to teach the dog to fear you... you want him to respect you, so you can work together as a team. That's not going to happen overnight and it's going to take a lot of effort, time, and consistency on your part. 

Based on the way you're describing your situation, it sounds like you really need some outside help from someone with experience.


----------



## megs90 (Jun 16, 2013)

LifeofRiley said:


> megs90, your dog is young and exuberant. From your posts, I doubt he is being "mean," more likely the mouthing is a mix of attention seeking and frustration.
> 
> I am not saying that the mouthing behavior is not problematic. But, based on what you have described, the methods you are using are probably only making it worse. It doesn't sound like you are working on modeling the behaviors you want... only punishing ones that bother you.
> 
> ...


I think you are right about the mouthing thing. He does want attention 24 7 but for example I'm laying in bed he jumps up acts like he wants to culdle then shows his teeth an bites my hand for no reason at all


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would talk to your breeder, if you think you can handle him, and it sounds like you are afraid of him. I would return him to the breeder or ask your trainer if they, or anyone they know would be interested in adopting him..


----------



## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I would talk to your breeder, if you think you can handle him, and it sounds like you are afraid of him. I would return him to the breeder or ask your trainer if they, or anyone they know would be interested in adopting him..


I agree with this 100% and quick. As long as he sense's you are afraid of him, it will only get worse.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

You have all these issues and had only three training classes with the dog? 

If that dog has so many issues, I'd be going to training classes on a weekly basis.


Where did the dog come from? Was it from a working line breeder?


----------



## TrooperL (Jun 15, 2013)

Loneforce said:


> I agree with this 100% and quick. As long as he sense's you are afraid of him, it will only get worse.


I totally agree. Have you ever watched The Dog Whisperer? Your dog needs to know who the pack leader is and this can be done in a kind and calm manner with proper care and time. Have faith! I also had a very aggressive male Shepherd once. With weekly training for 3 months (held after regular puppy class), socialization with other dogs and lots of time...I had a sweet dog for over 10 years. Hang in there.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> The trainer said he was just a nervous dog and that he wasn't socialized well as a puppy. We got him from a breeder an also We got him a dogtra training collar to help him an it does help but lately it dosent seem to phase him when he does something bad.
> 
> He snaps at me daily he dosent listen to me at all an he pretty much gets to rule the house an do whatever he wants because he will bite me and show his teeth if I try to put him in his cage or make him leave the room.
> He knows I'm scared of him he's 100lbs an stronger then me an even if I act like I am in controll he dosent care. I don't understand why he's so mean all I try to do is love him an he's just mean.
> ...


I'm interested in the dogs lines....a well bred stable dog will be of good temperament regardless of lack of socialization. Are you in contact with his breeder?
I'd stop the dog park, and work on NILIF. 
There are so many things you can begin to do TODAY to get him in a different mind set.

Not sure your location, but there are several good trainers that may be of help. If the one you went to is good, keep up with it...otherwise find another. Don't quit if you are keeping him. And don't let this go on and on, it isn't fair to anyone. 

Hopefully you've been trained to work with an ecollar so the corrections are timed right and you are being fair to him with the corrections. What setting is it on?


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I'm interested in the dogs lines....a well bred stable dog will be of good temperament regardless of lack of socialization. Are you in contact with his breeder?
> I'd stop the dog park, and work on NILIF.
> There are so many things you can begin to do TODAY to get him in a different mind set.
> 
> ...


One thing I have come to realize is that a lot of pet people cannot tell the difference between rambunctious pups/young dogs and aggression. To them, normal puppy/young dog behavior IS aggression. 

With only three training sessions you can't really change a pups behavior. We all know how much it takes to get reliable obedience onto a dog. That an e-collar was used on a pup that young and is used to "modify" behavior without any professional help is worrisome. 

A rough, rambunctious, young dog, that hasn't been taught proper boundaries, may just be an out of control dog that is mistaken for aggression. Wouldn't be the first time nor will it be the last time. 

That being said, we don't know the dog and can only go off what OP has posted about the dog. But from the posts, and the fact that the dog doesn't break skin etc. I'm voting for a young, out of control, rambunctious dogs that needs to learn where his place is!


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

looks like something's going to give, no pleasure or satisfaction in having this dog as a pet companion. Could create enough discord to affect a marriage . They dyamics are wrong . She can't handle the dog . The husband can't handle the dog , not when the dog shows teeth and bites for a simple request - go to your crate "He listens to my husband but will even bite him if my husband tries to put him in his cage. He is in the military an I have been left alone with the dog an feel like I can controll him an he is controlling my life. I can't discipline the dog or he will show his teeth at me an try to bite me. When I leave for work he acts sad but then I went up to the window to say bye an he showed his teeth an acted like he wanted to attack me. He recently chased after a little girl an the cops were called. I fear that one day he will really hurt someone an my husband dosent want to get rid of him. I have no idea what to do this dog is too strong an crazy for me I sprained my ankle tonight an got a bloody elbow from him running into me."

a muzzle -- a dog can't live in a muzzle . There are times and places where this is a good tool. Good for training . A muzzle does not subdue , it makes a bite less likely . I said less likely because I have seen so many muzzles improperly fit and too loose , one paw and the dog has it dangling to the side . Even with a muzzle if the dog wanted to be aggressive he could put down a lot of pain and bruising with muzzle punching where the person is battered with the dog coming in and whacking you with his head , back and forth. Feels like being hit by a piece of board.

So when he shows you the teeth , what else is going on with his body language? Hair , ears , tail, standing tall and rigid , ??

What does he do that you like ? What makes him redeemable as your family pet ? Is there something there at all or is it all a chore and challenge , a worry?


----------



## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

I too think the fear you show is playing a big part in this...and if that's not something you will be able to overcome I'm afraid the rest of it isn't going to work. As much as I hate seeing dogs rehomed...this one def needs a home where he will find out he's not in charge.

It does seem to me like you love the dog and are also looking out for the best outcome for him...which I applaud you for.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

When he acts like he wants to play and cuddle and he bites your hand, does the bite draw blood? Leave a mark?


----------



## wdkiser (May 7, 2013)

lyssa62 said:


> I too think the fear you show is playing a big part in this...and if that's not something you will be able to overcome I'm afraid the rest of it isn't going to work. As much as I hate seeing dogs rehomed...this one def needs a home where he will find out he's not in charge.
> 
> It does seem to me like you love the dog and are also looking out for the best outcome for him...which I applaud you for.


+1 - I agree


----------



## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

I would also get another opinion from a different trainer so you have an idea of what type of aggression you are dealing with. Someone needs to help you get a handle on this dog. Showing his teeth to you on a regular basis is completely unacceptable. He is your pet, if you cannot enjoy him and he is running your life, there is no sense in putting yourself through that kind of stress. 

So get another opinion from a behaviorist, find out what you are dealing with, and decide if it is something you can work with, or something you are not willing to deal with. In my opinion, rehoming a dog that is disrupting family/home dynamics is perfectly acceptable. A dog should bring you happiness, and if your husband is not there to help you, then this really should be up to you only.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

when one is afraid of their own dog, it's time to find someone who can provide what the dog needs.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> when one is afraid of their own dog, it's time to find someone who can provide what the dog needs.


:thumbup:


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

This thread makes me so sad. Sad for the owner/OP, and sad for the dog. Inexperience has lead to a shaky situation with a dog with no rules, boundaries or structure. He's not a bad dog, he just isn't being given what he needs. And the OP was not given the tools they need to teach the dog. Three sessions with a dog who is causing problems in public is majorly worrisome. The use of an e-collar to control signs of "aggression" is majorly worrisome. This dog needs training, every day, and needs some seriously strict rules and NILIF. I agree with the general consensus that he's not displaying aggression so much as mouthy, obnoxious, unrestrained behavior because he thinks, and rightfully so, that he's the boss. Him jumping on the bed is not trying to cuddle with you- it's him demanding attention and invading your space because he sees it as "his." 

OP never responded with where the breeder is at in all of this-- I would first contact the breeder for help with re-homing. I think this dog could absolutely thrive in a household where the owners are experienced with the breed and willing/able to provide the structure and training he needs. If the OP wants to keep the dog, she's got to commit to every day training, to being the boss, to practicing NILIF and making the dog work. Find a new trainer who is experienced with the breed, and ditch the e-collar- without proper instruction and training, you're going to cause an excitable dog like this to be pushed over his threshold.


----------



## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> when one is afraid of their own dog, it's time to find someone who can provide what the dog needs.


:thumbup: I agree with this too...


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I think you should re-home the dog. The dog hasn't been trained, you are afraid of him, and your husband can't handle him either.

You both have allowed this dog to walk all over you with no correction or discipline and I believe it is too late to turn him around with you as owner/handlers.

Sorry for the cold hard facts, but I call them as I see them and after reading this entire thread it is plain to me that this is not the dog for you.

You wouldn't be the first owners to come across a hard GSD that needs a firm handler/trainer/owner to bring out the best in the dog instead of allowing the worst to come out.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

You can't be afraid of your own dog. That makes things worse. Have you considered taking obedience classes with just you and him, so that maybe you guys can bond? I have a rambunctious one year old male that was never trained. Its a work in progress and I refuse to give up on him. His lack of manners and training is not his fault. Mine still mouths, much less now that he knows its not acceptable. These dogs are smart and they will take advantage if they are allowed. I would never allow a dog to show his teeth at me. I also don't think that the e collar is your friend right now. If that isn't used correctly you get exactly what you have now.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

It is so hard to tell from a person's description just what "kind" of dog this is in terms of his temperament and behavior. We can't even tell if he's puppy mouthing her (which while not great is still not aggression) or not. 

My 11 year old GSD Bella was described as such by her owners at age 6 months. She was "dominant, aggressive, trying to take over." They would try to intimidate and overpower her. Vicious cycle. She ended up crated 24/7 out of their fear of her. 

She went to rescue - after almost 2 hours of trying to extract her from her crate, to a car - snarling, snapping, trying to bite. She was in a foster home for 2 months - I don't know what was done there, but when I got her the power struggle concept and training that follows from that, used in her first home was one that was clearly not used. 

Bella is one of the most submissive dogs you will ever meet, always happy to let her person take the lead, uncomfortable with being the leader in any way. Beautifully obedient, biddable, eager and willing to please. There is not a willful, dominant bone in her body. She has been a joy to be around! Her former family was told how great she is and they could not believe it. And in this case, my home was definitely a better match for her, so rehoming is not always a bad thing for a dog so poorly suited, and people so poorly suited, for each other. 

I am typing all of this out to show that what 1 person sees as a dominant, aggressive dog may not be so. Eyes on that dog are needed, and a behaviorist who will not start with negative assumptions would help immensely. 

Places/things that may help in finding that:
PETFAX Behavior Consultation: Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts University 

Relationship Centered Training | Suzanne Clothier
Bottom of the page has some recommended trainers: Consultations | Suzanne Clothier

Find A Force Free Dog Trainer and Pet Care Professional

https://www.karenpryoracademy.com/find-a-trainer

Finding Help

http://www.academyfordogtrainers.com/sc/Academy_Graduate_Referral_List.pdf


----------



## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

You need to go to training with him. Three training sessions is not enough. My dog is 8 months old and we have had 6 weeks of training and we just finished another 8 weeks of training. It really helps. I have two other smaller dogs I trained myself, but I knew a GSD was going to get larger, stronger and he needed to have excellent training. People thought Riley was aggressive, because he barked and growled at other dogs while hiding behind me. The trainer saw that and said your dog is not aggressive. He's insecure. I never thought he was aggressive, but I did want him socialized around other dogs. It was great he is much better now. 

In the last training class there was a very aggressive dog there. She was much better by the end of the class. The classes don't so much train your dog...they teach you how to train and handle your dog. 

As far as the ecollar. We have one. We have never used it on the GSD. We only got it because my oldest dog loves to run out of our yard and all around the neighborhood. After all other training attempts failed and he almost got hit by a car we got the ecollar. We only had to use it on the lowest setting twice. After that when he hears the beep he responds.....maybe the ecollar is being over used with your dog. 

I wish you luck, but I would not give up yet.


----------



## Sagan (Apr 27, 2013)

Last resort? Leerburg | Dominant Dog Collar™


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Sagan said:


> Last resort? Leerburg | Dominant Dog Collar™


Dear goodness No! That is not a tool or method to be used by someone in her situation, with her lack if experience, and no help. There are very very very few people that should attempt what that collar is designed for, and even fewer dogs that need it. 

Not trying to be mean, but Gosh Forbid someone who had zero clue about behavior, thinks their dog is " dominant" and uses this tool/method. It's I'd very very dangerous in even the right hands. 

Rant over. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Trotter (Jan 16, 2013)

This is the road you may be on: Neighbor stopped attack by family pet, but mauling proved fatal for woman | The Columbus Dispatch

This dog is too much for you and your household. The dog needs exercise, training, and experienced correction to rehabilitate, but you unable to provide these essential elements. Punching a button to curb aggression will not fix your problem, and will likely make it worse. The circumstances you describe are, to me, an inhumane way to treat your dog. You're creating negative energy in the dog, and that negative energy will come out somehow, possibly with an attack on you or others, possibly with acting out in front of a cop with a gun.

In your place, I would place the dog in a GSD-specific rescue and not get another dog unless it was a small mellow older dog that could thrive in your environment. If your husband needs a GSD, he should wait until he's home more and can give a higher-needs dog more of his attention. A dog isn't a piece of equipment you can shelve until you're ready to play with it.


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Well put.


----------



## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

I personally want to know how old the dog was when they decided to start zapping it. 
You (OP) should give the dog up to someone with more experience. Like others have said its not the dogs fault its you and your husband not being strong enough handlers. At thois point no matter what you may no be able to continue with him.Where are you located there maybe someone in your area that can help you better then we can on this forum.


Let me also say being a poor handler does not make you a bad owner it takes experience. This is why the good breeders try so hard to match people with puppys instead of selling them to anyone that wants one.

My dogs would have 1 and 1 time only to break skin on me or my wife and they better never mouth my kids. Anyway I would have to get over it if my wife gave up an unsafe dog while I was deployed because I married her not the dog.


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

mharrisonjr26 said:


> Let me also say being a poor handler does not make you a bad owner it takes experience. This is why the good breeders try so hard to match people with puppys instead of selling them to anyone that wants one.


I should have added that myself. It takes experience to handle some GSD's. It _is_ important that the breeder match you with an appropriate puppy.

Because you are not able to handle this dog just means you are inexperienced, not bad owners.


----------



## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

Im sorry I did not mean to say "bad owners" I meant bad people.

Is it possible that this dog genetically is just crap? It doesnt sound like it to me, but it crossed my mind. Maybe thats why the OP hasn't said where she got him from.


----------



## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

megs90 said:


> We got him a dogtra training collar to help him an it does help but lately it dosent seem to phase him when he does something bad.





megs90 said:


> when he tries to bite or growl I just use the low setting on the collar.


It doesn’t sound as if anyone has taught you how to use the Ecollar. It seems as if you are pressing the button when he become aggressive. STOP THIS IMMEDIATELY! You can make him more aggressive! His perception is that you're hurting him and he's going to escalate to make you stop. 

Other have suggested that you enlist the aid of a trainer who is used to dealing with such a dog. I second that motion.


----------



## Myah's Mom (Mar 25, 2013)

I agree. There is too much negative foundation for an inexperienced owner to recover from and the liability/risk too great.

Re-home the dog with an experienced GSD owner. Try a rescue organization. The dog gets a deserved fresh start and can achieve his/her potential. Just do not, do not, give the dog to someone who "wants" an aggressive dog or watch dog. 

Then, do not suffer from guilt, which is a useless emotion. Be kind to yourself and do not let people beat up on you. :hug: Recognize where you went wrong and do not repeat it. 

Select another breed after reading up on breed temperaments, exercise needs and after some time, get another well-planned, well-suited pup to share your life with. And start training right away - for both you and the dog.

Be well.


----------



## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

Did you want the dog or was it just your husband who wanted the dog? Seems that no matter what dog big or small you wind up with, you aren't really prepared for what it entails. All dogs need exercise, some form of training, limitations, & a confident handler. How did you plan on exercising the dog without a fenced yard? It can be done but you have to be committed to spending a lot of time not only walking the dog but doing loose leash activities to tire him out. Especially if you are getting a puppy, someone confident needs to be around A LOT & really dedicate A LOTof time to raising a confident puppy. Just seems no one in your house was ready for the commitment. 

I think you should contact the breeder & explain what's going on. A good breeder would want to take the dog back & try to re-home with a confident experienced handler. Or they might know of where to foster the dog to help it get over the issues. If not try contacting rescue groups in your area, or even the trainer you used might know of a solution. You live & learn, but please don't get another dog, even a small one, if you & your husband aren't really ready to commit to at least a decade of time, money, & energy that it takes to raise a dog. It's not fair to you & especially not the dog


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

@megs90, how are things going? There has been an overload of information on this thread. No one would expect you to work through it all overnight. It is a process. Keep us posted!


----------

