# Kongs at night?



## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

We are getting a puppy very soon, and I am planning on freezing Kongs with treats so that she can occupy herself when I am at work (only 2 hours per day). However, I am wondering if I should put a Kong in her crate during the night to help her adjust? Or should I put her in there with just towels so that she can focus on sleeping at nighttime? 

Thanks!


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

We had our pup in his crate (covered with light, darkening blanket on 3 sides, back od crate open) with a rug and an older, comfy, clean folded coverlet...and his big carrot pillow that he has had since week 7  There are some tears in blanket as he sometimes drags it out of crate (we say, "house"), but in good shape. We also keep a box fan on (away from his crate) for noise softening.

We sometimes pop some zukes (torn up) jerky in there to snack on (naptime every other day). We cannot believe he hasn't torn the carrot pillow in the 10 months we have had him  

Good luck--it your pup likes her crate, it makes home life a lot easier!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

I keep a crate in our bedroom for puppies. I wouldn't put a Kong in with them unless you want to listen to lick lick lick all night. Plus you might have to get up and let them out more frequently.


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## EazyEandME (Apr 14, 2015)

In my own uneducated humble opinion about puppies in crates, I wonder if a frozen kong would soothe their mouths while teething? 

I also wonder if a kong stuffed with goodies every night might upset their stomach?

Do you think stuffing a kong with treats could be minimized to every few nights instead of every night? Or maybe some nits you give less treats inside the kong? 

I don't think freezing the kong could hurt though, like I said, it might help teething but I could be totally wrong? Even if you don't stuff the kong we treats sometimes, you could still freeze it. I would think that a kong in the crate would help you pup associate the crate with positive Things. That might be good!


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

Thank you! I will definitely keep that in mind.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Hi Lexiz  we have a 4 mo puppy named wick and he is the only experience I have to go off of... but here is what We saw:

the first few nights in the crate he was just plain upset about it...I mean they are sad lonely and confused ...and treats won't distract them from this... we laid next to it and put our fingers in ( which he smushed himself against as hard as he could ) which kept him from barking...and eventually falling asleep.

After this at nights he didn't like it but he would go in and sleeping time was sleeping time...he wasn't up all night and only wined to pee ...we stayed in the same room until he could hold it the whole night. He wasn't looking to eat or get treats ( although this prob depends on how much time they get exercised and if a kong would have helped i would have used it)

During the day : WHOLE OTHER STORY this is where crate training, treats, and kongs come in. Start the day you get him otherwise you have your work cut out. look up crate training and use the steps. Use kongs in the crate during the day while you can't watch him and when you work/ are gone. Wick wont eat in his crate if the door is shut unless from our hand, so if this happens to you maybe try what we did to teach him not to bark: use a clicker and when he/she finally quiets for a few seconds ( this took 20 min of barking) click and treat ...leave him/her in and continue to click and treat everytime until it stops completely...wick learned in just an hour and now doesn't bark in his crate Because ( i assume) he realized he isn't getting out no matter what so he Might as well get some treats while in there...(probably less complex but whatever)

But seriously do what works for the crate ...as long as you don't open it when the pup barks or whines ( ie teaching them it works to bark) then your fine... I only worry about making sure what he has is safe stuff...bully sticks are good. 

Oh and I have found that wick likes to eat some kibble when he is bored so I will hide some in the crate so he can find it while I am gone etc. 

Hope any of this rambling helps!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I almost think that at night it's bedtime and not time to chew or play. This is my observation after several pups. After one more pup I might go from almost think to a definite this is what I think....


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Dogs are"dusk creatures", the most active time for them are early mornings and early evenings because it is naturally, as for majority of predators, the most suitable time to hunt. Dogs sleep during day hours, and they sleep during the day, all in all, all predators sleep a lot. But, puppies, due to their development would be active all the day long and sleep all the night long. During the day they would need only short periods of rest, though, after exercise they might need a short sleep. Then, your dog would be active when he is fed. If you star feeding heavily at night ime - he wold be active at night. Your problem is the day time, and I strongly recommend you to look for "PUPPY DAY CARE" in your area if you are working. You simply shouldn't leave him on his own for longer than 3 hours (maximum during the day). Dogs are social creatures, and, in nature, if the puppy, wthout his sisters and brothers, was left alone - it means a certain death for him. That is what in the dog's head - he is going to die. In nature, his mother might have yet another litter, still, her older litter walk with her, and she is teaching them to hunt until they are one year old. Small cubs are left in the den while mother is hunting, that's why it is important to train your puppy to remain in the crate for some time. But it shouldn't be alone for too long. Day care provides constant activity for puppies of the same age, they play together and receive some training from carers. Otherwise, if you don't provide him company during the day - puppies develop anxiety, and you might end with the vet.


Your dog wouldn't play on his own - HE WOULD PLAY ONLY WITH YOU. Balls represent prey objects and, yes, it is a good idea to start training with Kong ball with treats. Later on your dog would prefer to chase balls, not darn cats. We call it "instinct redirection". Thus ball becomes a training tool. Any toys shouldn't be left scattered around the house. You, who is a foster parent and the leader of the pack in the future ( as what his mother will be in nature) should be in posession of the most valuable things (food and toys), and, if you don't play with your puppy - toys must be in your doggie bag. Puppies need toy objects for mouthing, and better to choose something eadible but hard he can break his milky teeth on, and exercise young teeth on. But his intellect and attention would work in parallel with his environment, while he is chowing.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I have posted something like this a while ago but will do it again:
Night 1,2 and 3: me and pup in a sleeping bag with a towel next to my bed
Night 4,5 and 6: pup in a tall box (for your hand to dangle in when he wakes up) with that same towel and the clothes old I wore that day)next to my bed and me in my own bed.
IN the meantime crate training during the day.
From night 7 until a few months later: pup in crate next to my bed.
Then you decide where he needs to sleep permanently.
I have done this routine with the last 5 dogs I got as pups. They were all between 8 and 10 weeks old when I got them and never did any of them give a peep so we could all sleep. Transition to the next steps was always easy. I never messed with food during night time. Sleeping in a sleeping bag with a new pup is something magical.
There is no stress on humans and pup. Is this worth a sticky? So people and pups don't have to struggle through the first few nights?


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## jackiej (Apr 1, 2015)

When we first got atlas and his crate, we put put him in his crate at nighttime no treats, maybe a toy and comfy towels, of course the first few night are horrible because some will scream bloody murder (like Atlas) and it sounds like theyre dying! It helps if you put your hand in there so they can smell you. After a few nights, Atlas calmed down. It does help to work on getting them adjusted to the crate during the day. Now, Atlas (knows he gets yummy treat if he goes in his crate) will voluntarily go in there now when its bedtime, he gets one treat, he eats it and goes to sleep. I would day no kong. Dogs typically sleep at night unless they have to go potty.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

David Taggart said:


> Dogs are"dusk creatures", the most active time for them are early mornings and early evenings because it is naturally, as for majority of predators, the most suitable time to hunt. Dogs sleep during day hours, and they sleep during the day, all in all, all predators sleep a lot. But, puppies, due to their development would be active all the day long and sleep all the night long. During the day they would need only short periods of rest, though, after exercise they might need a short sleep. Then, your dog would be active when he is fed. If you star feeding heavily at night ime - he wold be active at night. Your problem is the day time, and I strongly recommend you to look for "PUPPY DAY CARE" in your area if you are working. You simply shouldn't leave him on his own for longer than 3 hours (maximum during the day). Dogs are social creatures, and, in nature, if the puppy, wthout his sisters and brothers, was left alone - it means a certain death for him. That is what in the dog's head - he is going to die. In nature, his mother might have yet another litter, still, her older litter walk with her, and she is teaching them to hunt until they are one year old. Small cubs are left in the den while mother is hunting, that's why it is important to train your puppy to remain in the crate for some time. But it shouldn't be alone for too long. Day care provides constant activity for puppies of the same age, they play together and receive some training from carers. Otherwise, if you don't provide him company during the day - puppies develop anxiety, and you might end with the vet.


Dogs are no longer wolves, at least mine isn't. She is not a dusk creature because I am not. She also doesn't hunt but waits for me to give her dead meat  
I do agree with you that a pup alone without the familiar litter is afraid so that's why I developed the routine I described in the previous thread.
I think that day care for a young pup is riskier than crating at home when alone.


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## Ruger Monster (Jan 29, 2015)

llombardo said:


> I almost think that at night it's bedtime and not time to chew or play. This is my observation after several pups. After one more pup I might go from almost think to a definite this is what I think....


I think I've come to that conclusion also. I used to give Ruger something safe to chew to keep him occupied and quiet when he was still cranky about crate/bed time. Then I stopped recently since we are now keeping him in the crate in our room to try and tackle the last bit of this house training stuff (and noticed that since he's been sleeping in our room, he sleeps through the night/doesn't have to potty until we get up most mornings, whereas before he was going on himself/in crate when kept downstairs). Now he knows when I put him in his crate at bedtime and shut off the lights in our room, he sighs and flops down to go to sleep - such a dramatic dog 

Last night I left his beef knuckle in there - was keeping it from the other dog and forgot it was in there still... he spent a bit chomping on it rather than just sighing and going to sleep. Then he woke me up around 5:30am by picking it up and dropping it in his crate (and then did his whine to go outside and potty). So I've jumped on that "bedtime is bedtime" train too


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Ruger Monster said:


> I think I've come to that conclusion also. I used to give Ruger something safe to chew to keep him occupied and quiet when he was still cranky about crate/bed time. Then I stopped recently since we are now keeping him in the crate in our room to try and tackle the last bit of this house training stuff (and noticed that since he's been sleeping in our room, he sleeps through the night/doesn't have to potty until we get up most mornings, whereas before he was going on himself/in crate when kept downstairs). Now he knows when I put him in his crate at bedtime and shut off the lights in our room, he sighs and flops down to go to sleep - such a dramatic dog
> 
> Last night I left his beef knuckle in there - was keeping it from the other dog and forgot it was in there still... he spent a bit chomping on it rather than just sighing and going to sleep. Then he woke me up around 5:30am by picking it up and dropping it in his crate (and then did his whine to go outside and potty). So I've jumped on that "bedtime is bedtime" train too


I agree, I have notice that if he knows that we are asleep/not doing anything either he sighs and goes to sleep. One thing when we had him in the kitchen when he slept that helped this was to put him in the crate, cover it, then sit next to it until he fell asleep (about one minute...maybe less) he didn't mind sleeping as long as he felt that we weren't just deserting him to go do something cool. Wick just seems to never want to be left out!


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Max von Stephanitz says that GSD is a straight descendant of the wolf (?). No, generally speaking, dogs are not the wolves, they are different canines. Yet, dogs are programmed by nature, the basics of their behaviour are the instincts, and if we want to train them - we shouldn't disregard it. The main mistake of a trainer - to see a human in the dog. They are so intelligent, that they can understand meanings of so many words, they can understand our body language. But us... Are we less intelligent than the dogs if we cannot understand their language? Dogs are capable of speaking to us mainly their language,we have to understand it by studying them in the wild.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

In answer to the kong question, No. Sleep time is sleep time. Lights out. I would not want to teach them it's snack time. Personally, I had no issues with either of my shepherds at night. And I don't leave kongs with them unattended. To many stories of them getting it caught on their jaw. But I have a special level of paranoia.


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

David Taggart said:


> Dogs are"dusk creatures", the most active time for them are early mornings and early evenings because it is naturally, as for majority of predators, the most suitable time to hunt. Dogs sleep during day hours, and they sleep during the day, all in all, all predators sleep a lot. But, puppies, due to their development would be active all the day long and sleep all the night long. During the day they would need only short periods of rest, though, after exercise they might need a short sleep. Then, your dog would be active when he is fed. If you star feeding heavily at night ime - he wold be active at night. Your problem is the day time, and I strongly recommend you to look for "PUPPY DAY CARE" in your area if you are working. You simply shouldn't leave him on his own for longer than 3 hours (maximum during the day). Dogs are social creatures, and, in nature, if the puppy, wthout his sisters and brothers, was left alone - it means a certain death for him...Small cubs are left in the den while mother is hunting, that's why it is important to train your puppy to remain in the crate for some time. But it shouldn't be alone for too long. Day care provides constant activity for puppies of the same age, they play together and receive some training from carers. Otherwise, if you don't provide him company during the day - puppies develop anxiety, and you might end with the vet.


I 100% agree that Pup camp or day care not only socializes a younger dog (Leo started going to camp 1 half day a week at month 4.5 and does well there (tired an tuckered out when he would get home, too). Leo was out and about in a larger ex-pen during the first 6/7 months in our home and then integrated to freedom with Shane, our older dog (13 years old). In the past 3 months, or so, we have introduced bully sticks as a special treat to Leo, and he relishes them! (1, 12 in. bully every other day or so). 

I also agree with LLombardo regarding the PM treats in the crate...we may pop a few shredded Zuke's jerky in Leo's crate, but for the most part, after dinner (@6:30p) he is given treats (rarely, anymore) on walks. He still sleeps with his carrot pillow (from his week 5 and not a tear to be found on it!) a coverlet and a clean, braided rug. He is still napped during the day (getting to be every other day, now, at age 10 months) and exercised (shorter exercise times of 30 min. X 2 each day) late AM and early PM (right along with D. Taggart suggested are pups/dogs most active times). I never really thought of their heightened times of activities as late AM and early PM but it is pretty on target! 

Good luck!


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