# "attack" on neighbor dog



## 570Andrea (Dec 26, 2018)

Hi fellow GSD owners,
We are unfortunately in a poor situation with my pup and our neighbor. 
We have a 15 month old male GSD from a European show line. He's generally a good dog, not overly friendly with strangers but after barking at them for a minute, he then sniffs them and will roll over and let people pet his belly. 
Our neighbors are older, in their 70s. They own a cockapoo who barks anytime she sees us outside or our pup outside. In the past 13 months, since owning our Odin puppy, he was run into their yard maybe 10 times, I think it's been less actually. We are outdoors people so statistically it falls into a fraction of a per cent that he has run onto their yard. Once in their yard, he barks or runs around smelling things and twice now has chased their dog and greeted them by nipping at pant's legs or whatnot. Our dog has never been properly introduced to them because they fear him. And now the neighbors think that best solution is to call the state police when our dog runs over there.
With all that said, the other day Odin ran from my husband (whilst playing a game of fetch in our backyard) to greet the neighbor dog and woman. No barking, hair NOT raised. I wasn't there but my hubs said that he turned the corner to see our neighbor swinging her dog around by the leash (no paws touching the ground). Odin was sitting and smelling a pee spot. Hubs grabbed his leash, asked the neighbor if anyone was hurt. She answered, 'No.' And everyone parted ways.
Apparently, the next day, a mark was found on the cockapoo's neck and was taken to the vet who then treated her for an abscess removal. They want us to pay for the bill and they also have reported the event to the state police. I feel defeated. There is no amount of normal incidents that are going to persuade these neighbors in thinking that our dog isn't going to eat them (or whatever fear they have conjured up). 
I am a nurse and know that there are many causes to abscesses in every creature as it is a pocket of pus. There must be a break in the skin but that doesn't mean it was caused from our dog. And since hubby didn't see it AND the neighbor said everyone was OK at the time, I feel strongly that this story is becoming embellished over time to create more fear of our dog.
While our dog is a fairly well behaved dog he does not have 100% command control; we have him on a leash 24/7 but do play fetch and allow him to run a good distance under our supervision. 
He's not bitten, attacked, pulled anyone down or fought with another dog ever, that I have seen. In fact, he's played with toads and injured birds without harming them this past summer.
Any advice? Is this par for owning a GSD? I don't know if I can take it.


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Don't abscesses usually take more than 24 hours to form? Doc should be able to give you a timeline. Ask to speak to the vet and get a copy of the medical records. Have your own vet review the medical records. Paying now could be seen as evidence of guilt. I'd wait to pay unless you find it was really your dog who caused the injury. 

Your dog must stay on your property unless controlled. Period. Should not be running over to greet the neighbors, friendly or not, if they don't like it. E-collar train or take the dog to a fenced in area to play. 

It's a bummer we live in a world like this. My first response was to pay the neighbor, apologize profusely, and promise it won't happen again. Then make sure it doesn't happen again. Unfortunately, given the legal implications, I can't advise that. 

What have the state police said so far? I know around here, they love GSDs and might be willing to give you a break at first, but only for so long. We have some archaic and harsh dog law, unfortunately. Puts all blame on dog or owner, even if the dog just caused an accident by being in the wrong place- like running in front of a bike (didn't bite or do anything aggressive). 

No, it's not par for the course for the GSD in general, but realize that as a GSD owner you are given a lot more responsibility than the owner of the cockapoo. GSD are large, powerful dogs that carry a degree of suspicion and aggression- to varying degrees depending on the dog, genetics, socialization, training, etc. This is a powerful, serious breed and you need to step up and make sure your dog is under voice control if he is allowed off leash. I know it can be difficult, but it is part of being a responsible GSD owner.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Not what you want to hear, obviously, but if "while under your supervision" your 15 month old GSD has twice chased the neighbor dog and greeted your neighbors by "nipping at their pant legs and whatnot", I'm sort of shocked that it's taken them this long to call the police! Lots of people are afraid of GSDs, and for good reason! Your neighbors should not have to fear for their, or their dog's, safety while out and about in the neighborhood, PERIOD!

If you care for your dog, my advice would be step up your game. Stop letting him play offleash in your yard, and instead take him to play fetch somewhere where he's in a fenced area, away from your neighbors and their little dog. 

As far as the Vet bill goes...Dogs don't sit and smell pee spots, it's sort of mechanically impossible, so...your account of what happened doesn't sound right to me, especially given that he's previously chased this little dog. But in this situation, whether or not your dog bit their dog is less important than maintaining an amicable relationship with your neighbors. What did the police say? I agree with Saco that it's highly unlikely that their little dog got an abscess from a bite overnight. But if it were me I'd probably just Pay the Vet to maintain the peace, and keep it from being a possibility in the future!


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## Soldes (May 15, 2018)

In humans, a fresh wound takes approximately 48 hours after the event, to get infected; a little longer if it is to become cellulitis, or an abscess. I'm not a Dr of Veterinary medicine, but would imaging that these processes are likely the same in animals. Thus, you should not be responsible for an infected skin lesion, that was there before this interaction with your dog occurred. We feel for you, since it looks like this dog related friction, is there to stay; until dead (of the animals or people), due you guys apart.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

This dog needs to be on some kind of leash/long line, even when playing fetch. Another option would be to fence your yard or take him somewhere he can run that's fenced in. Whether or not your dog bit the other dog - this is an issue that has been occurring for a while and it would only be a matter of time before something happened - to your dog or someone else. I'm not saying your dog is aggressive, just the likely hood of something happening (say a car, or your neighbor has enough of it and hits the dog with something, or a dog walks by with their owner and isn't accepting of a strange dog charging them) is extremely high.


Personally, I would pay for this vet bill. I wouldn't try and reason with the neighbor because honestly, I would be in the wrong in this situation. I allowed my dog off lead with no recall and he charged another dog (friendly or not).


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

570Andrea said:


> In the past 13 months, since owning our Odin puppy, he was run into their yard maybe 10 times, I think it's been less actually.





> Once in their yard, he barks or runs around smelling things and twice now has chased their dog and greeted them by nipping at pant's legs or whatnot.





> There is no amount of normal incidents that are going to persuade these neighbors in thinking that our dog isn't going to eat them (or whatever fear they have conjured up).





> While our dog is a fairly well behaved dog he does not have 100% command control; we have him on a leash 24/7 but do play fetch and allow him to run a good distance under our supervision.


Egads. I've never lived anywhere that everyone didn't have fenced yards, so the concept of peoples dogs wandering into someone else's yard is entire foreign to me and consequently my views may be different from people who live in places where this is a common occurrence. That being said, if I were your neighbor I'd be livid that your dog, puppy or not, friendly or not, kept coming into my yard, chasing my dog, and nipping at my pant legs. Once? Okay, sincere apology and assurances that it will never happen again. But not 10 times. To me, those are not "normal incidents". The fact that he's been allowed to do this, and since you have not prevented it you are actually allowing it, intentional or not, means that he's _not_ on leash 24/7. Unless there's nobody holding the other end, which doesn't actually count as leashed. And if he's going over there bothering them and their dog, he's not properly supervised either.

I think you need to continue training your dog (hopefully you are actively training him), and make sure he stays under your control and on your own property 100% of the time. I don't see this as necessarily a breed thing, it's a management thing, and it's your responsibility as a dog owner to do so. My dogs aren't 100% perfectly trained either but they've never run into someone else's yard and bothered them or their dog. I'd be mortified if I had allowed them to do so, and I certainly wouldn't be questioning whether or not my neighbor had overreacted.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

As I understand the post, the GSD was on line but the line was not attached to a human at the time of the incident. He was in the other dog's yard but it appears that neither yard is fenced. (Perhaps due to OHA?) It would seem like there is a responsibility to keep both dogs off the other's property. Always. 

There needs to be more vigilance on the part of the humans here - both parties. It seems that it is not infrequent that both dogs are out in their respective yards at the same time. It may be a pain in the butt but that can be handled/corrected/managed. While I do not like "invisible" fences, perhaps each set of neighbors could invest in one for their property/their dog. 



I have no advise to offer regarding the current situation with LE & neighbors & dogs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

570Andrea said:


> He's generally a good dog, *not overly friendly with strangers but after barking at them for a minute*, he then sniffs them and will roll over and let people pet his belly.
> 
> Our neighbors are older, *in their 70s*. ....
> 
> ...


No. This is NOT "par for owning a Shepherd"

You have continued to allow your German Shepherd to run into the yard of an elderly couple where he barks and nips at them and chases their small dog.

Pay the bill, train your dog and apologize profusely to these people.

I'm angry for these people just reading your post.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

You are a nurse yet you don't see a problem with a large breed puppy having free access to barrel into or knock over people in their 70s? I am not sure how you don't conceive how serious of a problem a large breed puppy tugging at a pants' leg of a 70 year old, balance and coordination challenged person is. You are lucky that their dog is only an issues at this point of time. Things can be far worse.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Your dog is way out of line. You have to get control of your dog. It is not funny or cute when any large dog nips people's pant legs or chases their small dog. These are behaviors that can lead to major problems. Hire a fencing company yesterday to put up a 6' stockade fence, send flowers to your neighbor and ay you saw the error of your ways and the dog will be leashed until that fence is up.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

Honestly, if it happened 1 time: accident. Twice: lack of supervision. 3 times and more: YOUR lack of responsibility.

A German shepherd to their owner is a tiny little munchkin, but to other people, they can be a monster wolf.

I don't understand how you could let YOUR dog, regardless of breed be at OTHER PEOPLE'S property multiple times.

Apologise profusely. Fence your yard. Your dog is an active puppy. Fence the dang yard and make sure he stays ON YOUR PROPERTY.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

I love dogs with all my heart but if I imagine I was in my property, in front of MY door and there was other people's dog NIPPING AND BITING at my trousers more than two times???? I would have a serious, serious talk with the owner. On top of that, please take into account that they are elderly.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

Sorry to say this, but this is all on you. Where I'm from, your dog would have been shot and killed long ago, and your neighbors would not have been found at fault. 

You are not only risking the welfare of your neighbors and their dog, but risking the life of your own pup.

Get that fence up, pay the vet bill, and apologize for your lack of respect for your neighbors and elders.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

my advice is to give your dog to someone responsible.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

OP, have you given any thought to what this situation does to your home owner's insurance coverage? 


You might ask your insurance agent if you have a duty to report these incidents to the insurer, now that there's a police file on your dog, and a claim that your dog attacked the neighbor dog. Many carriers have a clause requiring you to report bites or claims involving your dog, even if you aren't asking insurance to pay for them....and then they'll cancel your policy because they don't want to cover dangerous dogs. So people get clever and say, "Well I just won't tell them!" Only it's not so clever because of the risk of rescission in some states -- where the insurer can retroactively cancel your policy YEARS later because you concealed a material fact. Example: your house burns down, so you make a major claim. They all hate paying those big claims, so they "investigate" first -- pulling public records (including police records), and see your dog has a complaint history.....they then announce that they wouldn't have renewed you if they'd known about it. So they rescind the policy, leaving you without coverage for your fire claim, even though the dog has nothing to do with the fire. It's not legal in every state, but it's scary as heck in the ones that allow it.


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## 570Andrea (Dec 26, 2018)

Thanks for your input everyone. Much appreciated.


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

My dog (a GSD) was menaced once and attacked twice by a neighbor's boxer that was able to get out of their yard.
The 1st time, "it is what it is". No one was hurt, we let it go since we were able to drive the boxer away.
The 2nd time happened when my husband was walking our dog in the AM, and in full view of kids waiting for the school bus. Our pup was maybe 6 mos old and was screaming. It was a big commotion and made me stop getting in my car for work and head down the street.

Took 2 DAYS for that neighbor to come say a thing to me. I was real understanding about it, but I was angry, mostly because I felt the neighbor didn't care. She promised to fix the fence. Husband persuaded me not to call the police or animal control yet.

About a month later, my dog walker was going down the street and that boxer came out to attack my dog again. My dog had a cut lip and an abrasion on his leg. She made a report to me, to the dog walking service and asked if I wanted her to take my dog to a vet. Since she'd stopped (minor) bleeding, I said no. She also said the neighbor told her that I had been told "not to walk (my) dog near her house" and when I heard that, I was even angrier. 1) No, she did not say that and 2) if she had, I'd have ripped her a new one because I pay taxes to use the street and her dog is out of control.

So I made a report to animal control. That's a long story because animal control got things very confused.

Anyway, about a week later, I was walking my dog on a different part of the street AWAY from the neighbors, when guess what? the boxer came out again and started stalking us! I could not retreat far enough away for the boxer to not feel territorial or whatever. It chased us to another neighbor's driveway, where I'd gone in order to have a witness to whatever happened next (the neighbor was in her car, getting ready to go to work).

As the boxer came to attack, I yelled at and kicked it a couple of times as my pup hid behind me. Finally, it decided it had enough of me and trotted off back home. 

I called animal control AGAIN. The owner of the boxer was told that the dog MUST BE LEASHED whenever off property, and any other reports could result in the dog being impounded. 

Don't give your neighbors an excuse to be angry. People can be patient but at some point, their responsibility is to protect THEIR family, THEIR dog, THEIR property.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

I am not trying to be "Goody Two Shoes" here!! But I will say that our neighbors have a little Pomeranian that used to run into our yard yapping at us, and liked to chase my daughter up to our front door. He was annoying, but cute in his furry Pomeranian way. 

We knew we were going to get a big dog, probably a shepherd, and I had visions of my dog being unhappy when this neighbor's little yapping bossy dog ran into our yard. The outcome would not be good! And our street has several curious active little kids who play and ride their bikes in the street...

So, one of the first things I worked on was getting our yard fenced...an Invisible fence would not cut it because it would not keep the little dog or the kids out of our yard. It was NOT cheap...but we do love having it. If you can fence your yard, I am sure the neighbors would be relieved and grateful.

( PS And oddly, it turns out that the yapping bossy Pomeranian is TERRIFIED of Rumo!? Rumo has never even gotten a sniff on him, he runs away as fast as he can. Turns out he was all bluster & show


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## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

A good dog lawyer to talk to the vet and a fence! Your dog should not run up to people and their dogs,(yes it will happen but rarely)Older people love their little dogs like children and was there a reason why you didn’t introduce him to your neighbor’s and dog when he was a small puppy?Maybe you could start over with them.


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## 570Andrea (Dec 26, 2018)

They live in a southern state for most of the cold season and that is part of the problem. While they were introduced very early on (Odin and the people, not Odin and their dog) but since spring/summer of this year is when they became fearful of Odin. A few of the times, my children (ages 5 and 3) have left Odin out of our fenced in area when they were outside playing-without me immediately knowing. 
For what it is, we have worked on the training both boundary and behavior and we have hired a professional to help guide us with that. And over time he has become less interested in them. My husband noticed that Odin is only interested in their dog when she's barking up a storm. I'm sure we'll come to an amicable solution eventually.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

570Andrea said:


> They live in a southern state for most of the cold season and that is part of the problem. While they were introduced very early on (Odin and the people, not Odin and their dog) but since spring/summer of this year is when they became fearful of Odin. A few of the times, my children (ages 5 and 3) have left Odin out of our fenced in area when they were outside playing-without me immediately knowing.
> For what it is, we have worked on the training both boundary and behavior and we have hired a professional to help guide us with that. And over time he has become less interested in them. My husband noticed that Odin is only interested in their dog when she's barking up a storm. I'm sure we'll come to an amicable solution eventually.


Honestly it sounds like you are still placing some of the responsibility for this on your neighbors. And their dog, by saying your dog is only interested when their dog is barking. None of that matters! Their dog should be safe in their yard. THEY should be safe in their own yard and they are not because you are not controlling your dog.

Your children are not old enough to have control of your dog. You didn't immediately know the dog was out because you weren't supervising the kids and the dog. This is your responsibility, not your kids, not your neighbors. In fact I don't think I'd be leaving a big GSD puppy who still nips people alone with children that age anyway!

"An amicable solution eventually" makes me think you don't understand the seriousness of the situation.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

*Any advice? Is this par for owning a GSD? I don't know if I can take it.
*

Sorry you are experiencing neighbor drama. I wouldn't say this is typical, but owning a GSD (or other breeds that typically intimidate people) requires more vigilance than owning smaller breeds or breeds that aren't usually seen as "aggressive." One reason I chose to live in the country is to avoid close neighbors. Even so, one of our neighbors from across the road knocked on our door the other day asking if our dogs had been loose because their chickens had been killed. They were not unfriendly, but it bothers me that they would ask us because our dogs are never loose (and there is no reason to think they have been), and our dogs would certainly not be running across the road and up another street. I have always been worried that the GSDs would be shot if they got loose and trespassed on neighboring land, and I'm even more paranoid about that now. The dogs are inside when we are not home. I don't leave them in the fence for long periods of time, and one of our two dogs is not allowed outside in the fence without my or husband's direct supervision. The burden is on us 100% to make sure there are no mishaps. 

It's great that you hired a trainer and have a fence. I have a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old, so I know how hard it is to keep track of kiddos, but I would suggest setting up a system where the kids cannot let the dog out. I would definitely get locks for the fence. Although they are a pain, perhaps you could get child-proof covers for the house doors, if they are letting the dog out of the front door. The kids probably don't need to be outside unsupervised with the GSD, so either bring the dog inside while the kids are out or accompany everyone outside.

Best of luck. Let us know how things go. I hope things are settled quickly and amicably.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

570Andrea said:


> They live in a southern state for most of the cold season and that is part of the problem. While they were introduced very early on (Odin and the people, not Odin and their dog) but since spring/summer of this year is when they became fearful of Odin. A few of the times, my children (ages 5 and 3) have left Odin out of our fenced in area when they were outside playing-without me immediately knowing.
> For what it is, we have worked on the training both boundary and behavior and we have hired a professional to help guide us with that. And over time he has become less interested in them. My husband noticed that Odin is only interested in their dog when she's barking up a storm. I'm sure we'll come to an amicable solution eventually.



I'm sorry but the *ONLY *problem is you are allowing your dog into someone else's yard where he is nipping and barking at elderly people and harassing their dog in THEIR yard. This is not their problem to solve, it is yours. In fact, knowing they are scared of them, you should have been even more vigilant and respectful of how they feel. 

I don't care if your toddlers let the dog out. It's your responsibility to make sure that doesn't happen. I don't care if the people live in the south certain months. They have a right to go into their yard and not have a large dog charge at them while they are on their property.

It's time you stepped up and took full responsibility. The next step will be for them to call AC and AC takes your dog. Hopefully, the people and their dog aren't hurt in the process and your dog doesn't get a needle just for being untrained.

It infuriates me when people don't take responsibility for their animals. If your child smacked a ball thru their window, would you blame them for having their window there?


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Lock your gate. It will help provide safety for your children and your dogs. All you need is a small section of chain and a good Master lock with a key.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

....eventually? Why not immediately? If I were your neighbors, or family of theirs, I would take constructive actions to ensure your dog does not enter my property again and you would not be happy with the solution. An elderly person in their 70s can easily be knocked down, break a hip, and never recover. YOUR dog is not worth that to them and all the sorry's, should haves, could haves, won't undo any damage if something might happen.

To move on, German Shepherds are a breed whose written standard calls for a degree of human aggression which generally starts to rear its head as the dog matures and your dog is getting to that age. You have a responsibility to ensure the safety of others from your dog and that includes providing age appropriate control and management of your dog at all times. This is something to be taken very seriously. Every person who has had their dog bite somebody for the first almost always is left scratching their heads as they say: "Well, he never did that before".


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Thanks for the update. With this, it sounds like also a "training the small humans" problem as well. 5 & 3 is pretty young to dump this responsibility on them 'though. Perhaps increased supervision for the dog & kids as a "batch" would help here. And maybe keep Odin in when fluff is "stormy"?


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

Yesterday, I thought @scarfish's response (upthread) was a tad harsh. After reading OP's response to posters' comments, I agree with @scarfish. OP, this doesn't sound like the best time for you to have a dog like this. I'd consider finding a suitable, experienced home with the time and resources to train and manage him properly; it's not happening now. Perhaps you should reach out to a local GSD rescue for a rehoming discussion. If you post your location, someone may be able to recommend one or more to you. 

Good luck.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

For three years I lived with neighbors who disliked my dogs, and I had a lot of dogs. Even though I knew my dogs were contained, controlled and supervised I bit my tongue and smiled at the rude comments, nasty behavior and lies to AC. 
You need to get it through your head that this is on YOU! Not the dog, not the neighbors and not your children. 

When Shadow was just a few months old she got out an unlatched door. Hubby was hot after her but she scooted across the road and promptly got nailed by aforementioned neighbors big husky mix, who also bit my husband. When AC showed up at my door the story was that my other dog had vaulted the fence and attacked them. Fortunately the officer was a GSD guy, knew that my 10 year old, sick female had NOT jumped any fence and fell in love with wiggly little Shadow. I got a $150 ticket for a dog at large which I accepted with a sigh of relief and humble apology. 

I IMMEDIATELY repaired the defective latch and made sure that it never happened again. I could have fought, argued, blamed hubby for not securing the door, accused the neighbor of lying but I did none of it. Because I have GSD's and at the end of the day, no matter what, in an altercation they will get blamed. 
I have had kids with dogs, I have had guests who did not understand the importance of securing gates, I have had dogs my entire adult life and lots of them. I can count the number of times a dog has gotten loose on me.

In the last 25 years I have had well over a hundred dogs through my home. 

Secure your dog, by whatever means necessary. Apologize profusely to your neighbors for your ongoing foolishness, pay the bill and assure them it will NEVER happen again. Then make sure it never does.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

570Andrea said:


> They live in a southern state for most of the cold season and that is part of the problem. While they were introduced very early on (Odin and the people, not Odin and their dog) but since spring/summer of this year is when they became fearful of Odin. A few of the times, my children (ages 5 and 3) have left Odin out of our fenced in area when they were outside playing-without me immediately knowing.
> For what it is, we have worked on the training both boundary and behavior and we have hired a professional to help guide us with that. And over time he has become less interested in them. My husband noticed that Odin is only interested in their dog when she's barking up a storm. I'm sure we'll come to an amicable solution eventually.


Like you fencing your yard and apologizing?

This is not "par for the course" with a GSD in the sense that this should never have been an ongoing issue. Stuff happens, and I think it's fair to forgive one or even two incidents. If it continues, then you and no one else are at fault for not properly managing your dog. It should not be "par for the course" for your neighbors to have to deal with this. I have to admit I'm a little surprised your kids have a chance to let Odin out of the fenced area without you realizing it right away; I'm not a parent myself, but I do have friends who have 5 and 3 year olds, and those kids aren't outside in the yard without a parent present.

It IS "par for the course" to have differential perception across breeds. It's all optics. I run a tight ship with my dog's public behavior (in our case, that's anything outside of our fully fenced yard), because perfectly innocuous behaviors that would be seen as such if exhibited by a small terrier mix or a Golden Retriever may look much more menacing coming from my German Shepherd. It's not fair, but it is what it is, and every GSD owner should know going in that this is what you're signing up for. It's not news.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I just saw this thread. These are all excuses and a refusal to take responsibility for your dog. Responsible German shepherd ownership means being proactive and not allowing your dog to harass a neighbor’s dog or you should not own a large dog, or maybe any dog. Dog ownership is a privilege. Take ownership of the problem and fix it.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

My parents are in their 70s and even a happy dog jumping on them can cause them to fall break something and end up in hospital. Control your dog - mistakes happen crap happens even in well trained dogs but it so important that you acknowledge your own errors and not blame others!!!!!!!


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

My parents are in their 60s, not quite the age of these neighbors but they have health problems.


All I can say is if their neighbor let their large breed dog regularly run loose and harass my parents or their dog in their own yard and one of my parents fell and ended up in the hospital...AC or no AC, that dog would be dead by sundown.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Why would you shoot the young, untrained, dog rather than go after the owners? Not that I'm suggesting anyone shoot anyone!! But if this were my parents, I would have already gone around with the owners. This is not the dog's fault. This is the owner's fault.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I've been in this same situation twice, once a young labrador who was constantly running through her invisible fence to come to my house because she wanted to live with us. She'd go in our garage and trash the place. Sometimes she even got into the house. 

We asked the owner a few times to try and do better at keeping her on their side of the road. Eventually they hired a trainer and although the dog did at last stay in their yard, I will never forget what I overheard the trainer yell at the puppy. The puppy was already sitting, facing away from the trainer, looking at my house. The trainer yelled "Sit! Stay! No!" At the puppy, who was...already sitting...facing away, not listening at all... "Sit, Stay, No!" Has been an ongoing joke in our house for years.

The second time it was a mutt/bully-ish dog who also wanted to come live at my house. I felt sorry for her...I did let her hang around. Asked the guy a few times to take her home, but she always came right back. She would sit outside my glass door begging to be let in. 

We started getting livestock and I started worrying, because she was big enough to kill stuff and I had no way of knowing if she would. I started locking her up and hand delivering her back to my neighbor, or I'd lock her up and leave him a note to come get her. This was a hassle and he obviously didn't care for it because he put her on a chain and that's where she stayed from then on. Very sad. I still think about that poor dog and I'm the reason she got put on a chain.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I've been in this same situation twice, once a young labrador who was constantly running through her invisible fence to come to my house because she wanted to live with us. She'd go in our garage and trash the place. Sometimes she even got into the house.
> 
> We asked the owner a few times to try and do better at keeping her on their side of the road. Eventually they hired a trainer and although the dog did at last stay in their yard, I will never forget what I overheard the trainer yell at the puppy. The puppy was already sitting, facing away from the trainer, looking at my house. The trainer yelled "Sit! Stay! No!" At the puppy, who was...already sitting...facing away, not listening at all... "Sit, Stay, No!" Has been an ongoing joke in our house for years.
> 
> ...


Oh hon, you aren't the reason. You did your best to keep her safe. The fault is on the owner who was too lazy and selfish to give her the time and training she needed. She deserved better.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I was on the 'wrong' side, with my Shelby. Shelby was about 6 or 7 months old. Even then, she was a big, black dog. My across the street neighbor is not a pet person. She was in her front yard, gardening, minding her business. Shelby had been to obedience classes. We worked at home and she was doing really well. Until that day.... I had her on leash, with prong, in our side yard. I had a prong collar fail. Shelby realized she was lose. I called her and she hesitated. Then, she decided to completely blow me off, because she wanted to see the nice lady across the street. Shelby ran to my neighbor, stood on her hind legs and put her paws on her shoulders. I was embarrassed by her behavior and felt horrible that she traumatized my neighbor.

In my case, I apologized profusely. There was no, "She won't hurt you. She's just a puppy. She just wants to say, 'Hi'." It wasn't OK that it happened and I took full responsibility for it. I wrote a note of apology and included a potted plant. I promised it would never happen again. I worked Shelby's butt off, on recall. I bought a prong collar adapter. It has been 4 years. It has never happened again. And that is how you take responsibility for your dog.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I've been in this same situation twice, once a young labrador who was constantly running through her invisible fence to come to my house because she wanted to live with us. She'd go in our garage and trash the place. Sometimes she even got into the house.
> 
> We asked the owner a few times to try and do better at keeping her on their side of the road. Eventually they hired a trainer and although the dog did at last stay in their yard, I will never forget what I overheard the trainer yell at the puppy. The puppy was already sitting, facing away from the trainer, looking at my house. The trainer yelled "Sit! Stay! No!" At the puppy, who was...already sitting...facing away, not listening at all... "Sit, Stay, No!" Has been an ongoing joke in our house for years.
> 
> ...


Nicer than me. I have a no-kill very small shelter where the dogs will stay awhile. If their owner doesn't claim them they get adopted out or sent to one of the vet clinics to be taken care of and adopted out.. So I have a 2 strike policy. First time I catch a dog I try to find the owners. Second time it depends but third or any times after the dog gets sent to the shelter. Too many dogs hit by cars, killing livestock/pets, or any other manner of things to let them constantly run lose. So don't feel bad. 

In this case OP needs to get their dog under control. I would've called animal control on them if I had a dog constantly hassling me or my family/neighbors if they consistently let it happen. I have personally put my neighbors dogs back into their fenced yard on occasion. But the people make an effort to keep them contained.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Kazel said:


> Nicer than me. I have a no-kill very small shelter where the dogs will stay awhile. If their owner doesn't claim them they get adopted out or sent to one of the vet clinics to be taken care of and adopted out.. So I have a 2 strike policy. First time I catch a dog I try to find the owners. Second time it depends but third or any times after the dog gets sent to the shelter. Too many dogs hit by cars, killing livestock/pets, or any other manner of things to let them constantly run lose. So don't feel bad.
> 
> In this case OP needs to get their dog under control. I would've called animal control on them if I had a dog constantly hassling me or my family/neighbors if they consistently let it happen. I have personally put my neighbors dogs back into their fenced yard on occasion. But the people make an effort to keep them contained.


I can understand that. I think this back and forth with this dog went on for about 6 months. This was our closest neighbor in a rather hostile area, and he was an odd duck to say the least. I obviously knew who the dog belonged to, and I really didn't want bad blood with this guy. The fence between our two properties was completely dilapidated when we bought the place, and my goats got over onto his place too at least once. 

Heck, my horses broke through the other fence and stampeded around my other neighbor's farm and they politely allowed me to hop the fence, catch them and bring them home and never gave me any trouble. So I didn't give them any trouble when their yearling bull came to visit either and trashed my fence, we just put him in a pen until they could come get him. Our three properties were the misfits of the road and we kind of needed to stick together. 

So that's why I tried extra hard to not make trouble over that dog being on my place all the time...under different circumstances I would never have patiently and politely returned the same dog a dozen times. She WAS sweet and I know she was lonely. 

People really liked to shoot dogs or run them down in the street for fun out there, so I tried hard to have good dog karma so if mine ever got out that someone might also cut me a break.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I did not read all the comments so forgive if this has already been said. 

First of all, the woman reacted to your dog not being under control on her property and she and her dog were in danger. That is your (the dog's owner's fault). She over-reacted and may have caused a LOT more damage. Even a well-socialized dog of excellent temperament may have chased a dog flying around on a leash. Evenso, this would not have happened if your dog was under control on your own property. 

I suggest you bite the bullet and pay the vet. 

I would normally NEVER suggest an e-collar or invisible fence, but in this case, if you use a reputable company that does the training with the dog. It can cost you much less in the end. 

It will not keep critters from coming into your yard. 
It is not a method of letting the dog go outside without supervision. 
It will be less expensive than erecting a solid fence. 
It should prevent unnecessary injury to the neighbor's dog.
It will not cause fence fighting, which can be very problematic for both dogs. 
And it will allow you to keep your dog with you outside without a leash, allowing your dog the joy of running after a ball without being leashed. 

You own a formidable breed, and just because he has not gone after the other dog yet, doesn't mean that he will not. His adult temperament is not completely set at this point, and he has huge teeth, and it will take no time at all for him to seriously injure or kill a small dog. When we live with a dog and see only his behavior with us, we can sometimes not realize that the dog is also and animal with drives and instincts and big teeth. You NEED to have control over a large, formidable dog. 

Thank God that there wasn't more damage and be proactive. Do NOT expect your neighbor to fix this. This is up to you to protect your dog and yourself from litigation. 

I would not try to encourage interaction between the dogs and the owners. Neither you or they are prepared to saw your dog off of theirs if there ever is a fight. It is not something that you ever want to witness. GSDs have as much power in their jaws as pit bull dogs, and humans are sometimes damaged trying to defend their dogs or break up dog fights. Seriously, this is a wake-up call. 


Now I will go back and read.


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## 570Andrea (Dec 26, 2018)

There is a lot more to the back story than our dog ran through their property a few times. Their dog has been on our property multiple times and I have helped the neighbors get her back to where she needs to be. This last event was in the street, not in the neighbor's yard. Thank you all for your input. We have a few factors contributing to the issue and trying to find the most efficient method of control and resolve. While training Odin, he is an excellently responsive dog but also when he sees squirrels/birds/cats/rabbits he loves to chase them. I feel like he's equating their pup to a fun thing to chase. We live in a rural setting. I completely understand the full scope of the problem, hence why I felt it was important to seek ideas from others who may have been in this situation before. Thanks again, everyone.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

I have a similar situation with my neighbors across the street. My dog has attacked theirs twice, won't get into the history, and yes those idiots still let their dog come off leash onto my property, but the bottom line is since the second time my dog ran out of my garage across the street to attack their dog my dog is ALWAYS on a leash when she goes outside and I am super vigilant ensuring she can not get outside off leash.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

570Andrea said:


> There is a lot more to the back story than our dog ran through their property a few times. Their dog has been on our property multiple times and I have helped the neighbors get her back to where she needs to be. This last event was in the street, not in the neighbor's yard. Thank you all for your input. We have a few factors contributing to the issue and trying to find the most efficient method of control and resolve. While training Odin, he is an excellently responsive dog but also when he sees squirrels/birds/cats/rabbits he loves to chase them. I feel like he's equating their pup to a fun thing to chase. We live in a rural setting. I completely understand the full scope of the problem, hence why I felt it was important to seek ideas from others who may have been in this situation before. Thanks again, everyone.


A good fence. The end.

Your dog will always be the culprit because it is big, scary looking, theirs is small and they are old.

Just because they aren't controlling theirs either does NOT absolve you of responsibility.

Your dog is the one who could easily kill their dog abd might, not vise versa. You build a fence, put a lock on it, yesterday!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

570Andrea said:


> There is a lot more to the back story than our dog ran through their property a few times. Their dog has been on our property multiple times and I have helped the neighbors get her back to where she needs to be. This last event was in the street, not in the neighbor's yard. Thank you all for your input. We have a few factors contributing to the issue and trying to find the most efficient method of control and resolve. While training Odin, he is an excellently responsive dog but also when he sees squirrels/birds/cats/rabbits he loves to chase them. I feel like he's equating their pup to a fun thing to chase. We live in a rural setting. I completely understand the full scope of the problem, hence why I felt it was important to seek ideas from others who may have been in this situation before. Thanks again, everyone.



When I first moved to my house, I think back in 2001, so 18 years ago, I used to open my front door at about 11pm and let my dogs run around a bit before we came in for the night. I was a nut. But nothing ever happened, so I got lucky. 

After losing Arwen for about 3 weeks in the dead of winter, I got smart about containing my dogs. Still no one was damaged by my dogs. So I was really lucky. 

I have kennels, and fencing in the back yard around most of them. In the front is just a couple of kennels. So when I take my dogs anywhere, I just let them run to my car. That is where they go. And if I am out there, they know the boundaries and respect them, so I can let them run in the front. My boundaries are the tree-lines so well before they get to the road or to the neighbor's yards. And all this was good. 

Until it wasn't. I got Cujo back at 18 months old, and learned the next day that he does not like horses. At all. Fine. I do not have horses. But I have Amish neighbors. Well, one day when my nieces were over, they let Cujo out the front door and my Amish neighbor was riding his horse in the street, and Cujo ran right out there after him. I was there and I caught him and apologized. Totally my fault. No one was hurt, but it could have been so different. So before the week was out, there was a fence in front of my front door connecting the one kennel to the other. So, there is no way that children opening my front door will release my big formidable dog unabated to horse riders or drivers in the street. 


We own formidable dogs, therefore WE have to keep them under control and contained. Just because it has never happened doesn't mean it cannot happen. In the past 18 years, I have owned 37 dogs without anyone or anyone's dog, horse, rabbit, chicken, or sheep being injured by my dogs. 


It isn't rocket science. We need to pay attention to wake-up calls and ACT rather than reacting after something bad has happened. I've done this while working full-time, without using prong collars, e-collars, or invisible fences. But that is another story. I did run a solar powered electric fence wire around my back yard fencing for about a year. The dogs could see it and would put the brakes on, check where it was so they could avoid it and then bark. I had it so they would not try to climb over or dig under the cheap horse fencing. It was unnecessary because I do not leave them unattended in the yard. I put them in their kennels if I am not out with them. Then, everyone is safe. I have voice control on all but Cujo2 when he is faced with a horse. So now everyone but Cujo2 can go out with me, without a lead or collar. Until I get more time to train that big neutered dog, and test that around horses, he has to have a line on him if he is out of my back yard or kennels. 

As I say, it isn't rocket science. I am not going to put up an invisible fence for one dog that has a horse-issue. But I am not going to let a simple accident happen if I can prevent it. So the girls would have to come over, open the front door, and then go out and open the gate to let the dog go. It may make perfect sense for you all to have an electric fence around your property. Or play fetch in your fenced area. It sounds easy.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I want to take a minute to commend the OP for her open attitude. Many folks would have shut down after the first couple of posts saying she needs to take charge.


And to the board members in general - quit dissing folks older than you. Many of us work dogs well into our "ancient" years. We aren't necessarily feeble or fragile because we are older than you by 10 to 20 years. (Just like you are not stupid for being under 60.)


As a matter of fact one of my 70 yo neighbors has been jailed on repeated offenses over the last couple of years - shop lifting, violating restraining orders, stealing a motorized shopping cart. So, hey, watch your assumptions.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

middleofnowhere said:


> I want to take a minute to commend the OP for her open attitude. Many folks would have shut down after the first couple of posts saying she needs to take charge.
> 
> 
> And to the board members in general - quit dissing folks older than you. Many of us work dogs well into our "ancient" years. We aren't necessarily feeble or fragile because we are older than you by 10 to 20 years. (Just like you are not stupid for being under 60.)
> ...


My comments were never ever intended to insult people older than me. If I did, I apologize


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I am an older person. I never insulted myself or anybody else my age or not my age.

With that said, nobody ever said their minds are feeble, just that one's body is no longer as resilient as it once was.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I'm only 50, but if a large formidable dog came barreling at me, and I slip and fall, I won't be happy. I am not small, and I break and I don't heal so quick either. My parents are in their 70s, and I would not call them feeble, but my dad walks with a cane and a large dog could easily cause a fall, a broken hip or pelvis can kill and older person. And Mom did not survive cancer to be knocked over by a dog. A fall would do serious damage to her as well. 

Some people in their 70s are like others in their nineties. I don't think this is dissing older folks. I think we do need to be conscious of people who might take a lot longer to heal because of their age, or size, or medical conditions. We shouldn't let our dogs run up to anyone, but little kids and elderly folks are most likely to sustain serious damage.


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## rhodesfilm (Aug 9, 2013)

At 15 months, you're pup is still in adolescense so the training must be consistent and regular. My Zu is 6 years old, black, large boned and 125 lbs. People are very scared of him. I've had him since he was 8 weeks and really, he just came out of adolescence at about 4 years old. So, there is a lot of training ahead for you. 

He doesn't know how big he is and will nip at others to get them to play and it can be very scary for someone who doesn't know him. Training has worked pretty well but I decided to remove him from those situations completely. We don't do dog parks, no electric fence since he would probably be shot (in Georgia) if he ran full on at someone who was jogging by, and he must be on a leash, always, no matter what we're doing. I can't take the chance he will knock over a neighbor's kid if he runs up to play...it's not worth taking the chance. He loves other dogs and does group play with 12 - 15 others once a week (supervised) and when I travel. However, if a little dog growls at him that he doesn't know, that's it. That dog is on his list and they will never be his friend. He's very black and white that way and much of it is him wanting to protect me.

The German Shepherd is spotlighted a lot now working with the military and police so there is a sense of fear by the public. Mostly because we now see everything on social media. Even if we, the owner, are in the "right", we have to bite the bullet because in the end, it's the big dog that pays the price. 

I would highly recommend what others here have and make peace, pay the vet bill and reassure them that you're working on training. It sounds like you really love your pup but are a little overwhelmed right now. You can do it but you'll have to accept, and assume, that everyone is scared of your dog and work from there. Good luck.


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## king&dena (Dec 29, 2012)

Good fences make good neighbors


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## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

sebrench said:


> *Any advice? Is this par for owning a GSD? I don't know if I can take it.*
> 
> 
> Sorry you are experiencing neighbor drama. I wouldn't say this is typical, but owning a GSD (or other breeds that typically intimidate people) requires more vigilance than owning smaller breeds or breeds that aren't usually seen as "aggressive." One reason I chose to live in the country is to avoid close neighbors. Even so, one of our neighbors from across the road knocked on our door the other day asking if our dogs had been loose because their chickens had been killed. They were not unfriendly, but it bothers me that they would ask us because our dogs are never loose (and there is no reason to think they have been), and our dogs would certainly not be running across the road and up another street. I have always been worried that the GSDs would be shot if they got loose and trespassed on neighboring land, and I'm even more paranoid about that now. The dogs are inside when we are not home. I don't leave them in the fence for long periods of time, and one of our two dogs is not allowed outside in the fence without my or husband's direct supervision. The burden is on us 100% to make sure there are no mishaps.
> ...


 

 
I don’t have chickens anymore. I have foxes, Falcons/ Hawksand Owls, a passing eagle or two, an osprey, the rare bear and coyote, other peoples dogs (abandon pitbulls), other peoples CATS, a neighbor’s BIG pig, my other neighbor’s cow= it stuck it's head thru my screen door, my other, other neighbor’s peeping tom dog=ever wake up at night and get that feeling something is watching you so you turn over and there is that dog just staring at you thru the window (many times).EVERY BODY'S PETS/FARM ANIMALS GETS LOOSE- if they are not aggressive I just send them away or home-I hope I never have to harm an animal/pet. A fox most likely killed the birds (need cameras=foxes kill all and leave with but one), did he have animal control over to see/have any chicken tested, did they look for signs (animal tracks in the dirt)? it WILL happen again with the fox but a dog always get the blame.


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