# How did you start SchH traning?



## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

I am curious if most people start SchH training first by working independently with a trainer/helper or if they join a group and start that way? 
At what age was your dog when yoiu started SchH him/her?
----
I have trained PP before but I started with a trainer and then moved to a group. I'm getting a new pup and plan to do SchH or PSA (have not decided which yet) eventualy. So I am beggining to think about how to get started and select a group. I plan to visit whatever local groups/trainers are around here but as I make contact with them I am finding some are very welcoming while others are...well more on that later.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Club. I like the group style training, and doubt I could ever afford private Schutzhund training!


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

I started taking private lessons with a helper/Club TD. My dog was around 14 months old. After some sessions, he invited me to his club and eventually became a member.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Joined a Club. I started by taking pet obedience classes and tracking classes. The instructor of these classes also does Schutzhund, so the obedience and tracking had some Schutzhund style obedience and tracking incorporated. 

The instructor invited me to join the club afterwards, even though I had no idea what Schutzhund was at the time (must have been desperate for new members!  ). Glad I came out to watch and went on to join. It's been a blast ever since!


----------



## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

Club. I LOVE to be a member of a solid, cohesive club with structure and members I click well with. I am very, very happy with mine 

ETA: plus, I think that training in a group allows more eyes on you to help when you are stuck or there are problems. I used to be in SAR so I knew I wanted that sort of team atmosphere. Everyone there to help everyone else and contribute in whatever ways they were comfortable with.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Joined a club. Actually started attending club regularly several months before my planned puppy was even conceived so as to learn all I could from watching, listening and asking questions in order to help get myself better prepared to start off on the right foot with the pup once I got him.


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I just showed up to the club and started talking to them... Jax was a small puppy... 10-12 weeks (?) The helpers took a few hours each to talk to me, played with Jax a little bit gave me tips on what I should be doing with him at home and it just became an activity.


----------



## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

Chris Wild said:


> Joined a club. Actually started attending club regularly several months before my planned puppy was even conceived so as to learn all I could from watching, listening and asking questions in order to help get myself better prepared to start off on the right foot with the pup once I got him.


I am in the process of trying to find a group. The reason I posted the question is this:

A while back I contacted a local SchH group that meets just 5 minutes down the road from where I live and are an active SchH group in this area. 
I spoke with the president? and explained that I was looking to get a pup in the near future for sport. We discussed the group, my experience, and I asked for some local breeder recommendations. He told me that there is a waiting list to join the group but I could hire him to train with me privately. That kind of rubbed me a little wrong but no biggie.

Skip ahead a bit. I am expecting the pup in the next month or so and would like to start looking at the local groups over the spring/summer so that in the late fall I can start training with one (dog would be 9-10 months). 
Obviously the local group would be convenient. I'd like to attend some sessions.

So I get back in touch with the same person (the only contact info on the 
group website). He tells me that membership is closed but I can pay him to train with me. I explained again that it is a nice offer but I am looking for a group to train with. 
Frankly, it strikes me as a little unethical. But maybe this is par for the course? From the responses above it does not seem so.

I have spoken with a few people from other nearby SchH groups (fairly long drives) and they welcomed me to come down. 
Same with the PSA folk.
I am just curious whether this is common.

Obviously I have plenty of time to find a group. I can also simply work with a trainer/helper for a while to start the dog out and then join whatever group they work with (but its costly). That isn't really much different then what this guy was suggesting except that I don't think he is't really a trainer/helper. In that case I'd probably choose a different trainer. But really I'd prefer to go the group route from the get go.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Should add, at that time there were about 6-7 clubs within a 2hr or so drive of where we lived, and we visited every single one at least once, most twice or more, before deciding which was the best fit. Actually had it narrowed down to 2, but 1 wasn't taking new members and the other was, so that decided which of those 2 we ended up joining. And of course it ended up being one of the farthest away!


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

TechieDog said:


> I am in the process of trying to find a group. The reason I posted the question is this:
> 
> A while back I contacted a local SchH group that meets just 5 minutes down the road from where I live and are an active SchH group in this area.
> I spoke with the president? and explained that I was looking to get a pup in the near future for sport. We discussed the group, my experience, and I asked for some local breeder recommendations. He told me that there is a waiting list to join the group but I could hire him to train with me privately. That kind of rubbed me a little wrong but no biggie.
> ...


How is what he is doing unethical? I think that's pretty par for course. The TD/contact person does not usually make the decision as to how many people they are going to allow in the group. It usually depends on a lot of factors--how many dogs their helper can work in a day, how much time they have to work the dogs that are already in the club, etc.

However, their might be some club members that offer training outside of the club for a fee. I currently go out to a SchH club, but am not a member. If I want to work with the helper--I pay for it. If i want an OB lesson on Tues night--I pay for it. If I want a tracking session--I pay for it. The training director of the club is there during CLUB TRAINING to offer their assistance to CLUB MEMBERS. Outside of that, they have a completely different "dog training" business that has nothing to do with the club.

There are lots of SchH clubs that have closed membership. However, if you start taking private lessons and go to club trainings to watch and learn, they just might be able to find room for you at some point down the road.

I see nothing wrong with what this guy did. At all.

ETA: However, if you want to be "in" a club from the beginning, obviously you need to move onto another place since they've already said that they are currently closed for membership.


----------



## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

I think that's pretty standard. Our club operates very much like that. I wouldn't be insulted. Besides, maybe you'll do private lessons, really hit it off, he'll like you and your dog and you might be invited to train with the club a few times and later be a member.


----------



## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

FG167 said:


> I think that's pretty standard. Our club operates very much like that. I wouldn't be insulted. Besides, maybe you'll do private lessons, really hit it off, he'll like you and your dog and you might be invited to train with the club a few times and later be a member.


Thanks and thanks Justine too. I am not really insulted just was looking for some perspective/clarity if that is common practice or not. I was initially put-off by it a little but I think I was wrong to be. So thanks again.


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

When I travel -I have contacted clubs and asked them if I could visit-I really enjoyed doing that-if there are other clubs that are in the area why not visit them and see what you think


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think in SchH, nothing is really "common". Some clubs train 3 times a week, some once every 3 weeks. Some cost $300/yr, some cost $300/mo. Some have a deep pool of good helpers and experienced competitors, some really only have one good helper or even have to bring in a helper. If a club is full, I wouldn't take it personally. Our club is basically "full" at the moment but we have one helper and limited resources especially for tracking. A helper can only work so many dogs at a respectable level before it being too much to ask physically. Right now our priority goes to club members that have been with the club for years, not just trying to bring in as many new people as possible. A lot of helpers, trainers, and more experienced members train dogs on the side or have dog related businesses that have nothing to do with the club so if that is the case in your situation, they may just be trying to help by giving you some referrals. 

If you are really stuck and really serious, think about starting a new club. I helped start a SchH club and attended regularly (as a full paying member) before I had a dog to train. I barely knew two things about SchH training but dangit I wanted to do it!


----------



## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I had Dobies & Rotts first....club/group in Chicago, it was exciting and totally peaked my interest. The dynamics of obedience & protection, more than *the sport itself*.
Then....GSD.....married a helper.....and que sera sera.....


----------



## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Sometimes the private training is good, and on the up-and-up...maybe after a couple of lessons you'd be invited to train with the club? MAYBE it's a way of screening out people who aren't serious? 

When I was looking to train Mike, I contacted a place that I passed regularly on my way to flyball practice. Place was only about 45 minutes from my house. they had a nice web site and a schutzhund club that met there every weekend. 

Talked to the owner via email. Told him I have a lot of competition obedience experience and that I'd put a SchH1 on my show dog several years ago. Told him Mike (1.5 years old) had some tracking, a decent obedience foundation, but hadn't done bitework. We were invited out for an evaluation and to watch training. I watched the club do obedience, and didn't see anything that blew us away. Didn't see bitework because the helper was running late and hadn't arrived yet.

The "evaluation" was pretty funny. I did some obedience, then the trainer wanted to test Mike for bitework. He got out a long tug and dangled it in front of Mike's face. No movement, just waved it like a hypnotist with a watch. The guy's cell phone kept ringing and he kept answering it, and talking while "evaluating" my dog. (apparently his club helper still hadn't shown up.) At one point Mike grabbed the tug, and held on, and then the trainer let go and Mike wandered around carrying the tug. That was the whole evaluation.

After he finally got off the phone, the trainer made some comment about my dog not barking. Ummm yeah, there really wasn't anything for him to bark at! if he had barked I would have been concerned! He told me Mike had good nerves and medium drive, and that he could train us. He'd provide weekly training for as long as it took to get us the BH and SchH1, for ONLY (are you ready for this) $10,000. I just about choked. My dog was a few weeks away from being ready for a BH and I didn't really need help with the tracking. Thought maybe I'd heard wrong. Nope. 

I didn't take him up on his generous offer. Went back to the trainer I'd used 8 years earlier, even tho that meant driving twice as far. I've been told that yes, that trainer really DOES charge $10,000 to get a team ready for a BH and SchH1, and there are people who pay that. Yikes, I am in the WRONG business!


----------



## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

Wow, and so nice of him to give you 30 seconds of uninterrupted time! I would have told him, not so nicely, that he is bleeping high!


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I called the clubs in the area and went and visited. I had a GSD that had just turned 7 and had been training dogs in AKC obedience for 8.5 years (and was bored). One club was very warm and welcoming and immediately took me out and started introducing me to tracking. I went with this club. I put the BH on the old dog, learned about tracking, attempted an FH (my fault we failed) and then 3 years after starting with the club I got a puppy that proved to be suitable to title. Funny, I eventually ended up a member of the other club 11 years later.

As for your other questions, I know of clubs where you have to work privately with the training for awhile before being asked to join the club. This is the way they weed out the people that are not serious.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The first club I was in was new, and everyone was learning together. The helper wasn't experienced in SchH but was a police K9 trainer....so the foundation put on some of the young dogs wasn't correct. Finally an experienced helper came in and helped everyone move in the right direction. 
My only "problem" with the group was they also trained during SchH time conformation ring training, which I had no interest in. I had a WL, and most everyone else had SL's, I was put on the bottom of the list as an afterthought, because I didn't have one of the breeders pups. 
So I decided to look for another group, even though I really liked all the people. 
I found a nice group of people, but after about 6 months didn't feel like I was getting any support, the helper was also training dogs on the side and charging, if I wanted more than what the training days offered, I could train privately. The TD let the helper run the club vs the members running the club. The helper worked for "tips", so I don't know if I offended him by not paying more than $25 a session or what. The helper never showed up for tracking, so as a group, tracking was left to individual time, vs during club days. The TD never helped anyone with OB either, so he was a TD in name only. Half the time he was out of the state for work, so the club was disorganized.
Helper was always inviting others to train with the club, and of course making $, club wasn't benefiting and the guests were taking up members time. 
Because I was a newbie, I didn't feel I had the right to voice my opinion on the clubs organization, etc.
I decided to leave when the the only one helping me quit going as well.
I privately trained with her for a few months but it was inconsistent due to her travelling for trials.

So I went back to the first group, and they were dialed in, no longer doing the conformation training during SchH training time, and I was lucky there was a spot open for me.
Sometimes you do have to visit different groups to see where you fit best, if you are lucky enough to have a few clubs within a couple hours drive.


----------



## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

I think it's very important for a newbie to start out working with a club. The ability to watch, listen, perform and learn with a variety of people will help you make educated descisions about how you plan to work your dog and the different training avenues you intend to take.

The other benefit to finding a club, is that you are able to witness how their helper/helpers interact with not just the dogs, but with the other handlers. 

REMEMBER though...before you decide on any club/helper/trainer...do your homework. Just because a club is close doesn't mean that they are going to be a worthwhile investment. I have a club very close to me that I will not train at because I don't agree with the helper's methods. I travel 2 hours to train at Huerta Hof, because, IMO, I can/will not ever find a better helper.


----------



## mareg (Mar 10, 2011)

I would pay for some private instruction if you can find someone who seems honest and isnt charging to much. You can also go to a club at the same time. Many times you can pay for a little extra help from a club member. You are at the mercy of the other members to help you other wise. 

Watch the people working thier dogs at the club and see what you like. Ask that person for help. Many people dont like to help new members because they have wasted so much time on new people before they are tired of it. But, if you can pay someone they will give you thier undivided attention for the session. Other wise they will only help for a few minutes from time to time. Being on one program can help alot. It is very frustrating getting advice from six different people......with the advice from each being different.


----------



## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

I just started by going to training and joined a club! We were taught there how to work at home with him!!


----------



## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

I got great exposure when I was growing up in the Bay Area in CA. Had German working line dogs, the sport was starting up on the Peninsula. Went some as a teenager, then away to school and then off to college.

Back in the Bay Area 10 yrs post college, got a GSD and started back in at Menlo Park. People that I had met years ago were there - I did not know the extent and how lucky I was when much younger, who I met and what I saw (thump on head). Big club, open to dogs from all (not closed like some are now). Experienced helpers for all levels, experience breeders that trained, titled, showed and breed survey'd their dogs. Experienced trainers, people at all levels. Lots of exposure to show and working, police k9s. Did CGC, AKC OB, AKC handling as well as SCH and training Baer in the show ring....

Moved to Europe for a year for work and got to see IPO, multiple dogs, train in Holland and Germany, drove all around. Went to the Sieger show.

Moved back to the states and then moved from CA to TN for work. Started training up in KY. Met Gabor, who I knew of through multiple friends in the states and in Europe. Baer, who was already a SCH2 (v in protection and tracking) when we were in Germany, did an OB3 (he had broken 2 canines), his show rating and koer (for life).

I have been on my own dog hiatus since Cara born, full time job/commuting, and Cara's schedule ;-). Now, I have Mia (from our breeding), aka crazy girl to train and title.


----------



## k950ECHO (Oct 15, 2009)

I started with the breeder of looking for a sport dog. most ppl where I am purchase GSD is because of status. I was raised with them and just have a natural love. I started working with the breeder who is also a trainer and then moved to a trainer/helper. I wont join a club, i tried once and didnt get any learning or practice done. they did a lot of talking , gosip, etc.. i started my female at 6 mth after basic OB. my male I started with basics at 8 wks when i brought him home.


----------



## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

I had known of a local club, and was looking into buying a young malinois from them before I got Odin, and then when I brought Odin home they had invited me out to watch them train and have the pup looked at. We started going to the club when he was about 10 weeks old, once or twice a week. The club scaled down their training to just their personal dogs, so we just worked OB with other trainers.

I found the club i'm working with now because the trainer used to work his dog at the previous club I was in, so I was familiar with him and his dogs and after speaking with him about my dog felt comfortable going to and resuming bitework with a new club, and i've been happy with my choice.


----------

