# Worry about small size..



## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

Hello guys.. this is my 6 month female.. her height is 22inch and length is 40inch.. her weight is 20kg.. my concern is her size.. i like big gsd's but i doubt she will grow big.. guys can u predict how big she will grow.. her mother was avg height.. and what can i do to increase her height.. pls advise..





































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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

There isn't anything you can do to increase her height. That is genetic for the most part and you don't want to mess with that. Keep in mind that smaller GSDs can be faster and more agile.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this is a female

she is 6 months of age

she is 22 inches at the withers 

the standard for an adult female is 22 to 24 inches 

she is not small , having already attained standard (correct) size

she looks good !


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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

car2ner said:


> There isn't anything you can do to increase her height. That is genetic for the most part and you don't want to mess with that. Keep in mind that smaller GSDs can be faster and more agile.


Yaah small dogs r fast and agile but my requirement is for guarding.. i love my dog very much but its my wish that she should grow big..

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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

carmspack said:


> this is a female
> 
> she is 6 months of age
> 
> ...


Ok But whats ur prediction how tall she will be.. ?

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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

size has nothing to do with guarding or protection 

maybe 23 - 24


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Katdhoom said:


> .. and what can i do to increase her height.. pls advise..





Katdhoom said:


> Yaah small dogs r fast and agile but my requirement is for guarding.. i love my dog very much but its my wish that she should grow big..


I assume that's your son in one of the photos? There's nothing you can do to increase the height of your dog any more than you can affect how tall your son will be when he's an adult. She will be as big as her genetics determine, that's not something you can change. 

My adult female is about 22" tall and 25 kgs. I don't know how much she gained in height from 6 months old because I didn't measure her then, but at 6 months old she was 21 kgs. My guess is that your girl may end up slightly larger than mine but not by a lot.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

My girl Dena was 28-1/2 kgs at 6 months old, and matured to 32.5 kgs as an adult. I never measured her so I don't know how tall she was.


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## Evohog (Jul 18, 2017)

You shouldn't worry about that as size has nothing to do with the ability to guard or protect.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Not sure which photos are the most current, based on her tail and coat they were not all taken at the same time / age... in the third photo she looks incredibly thin. I'm hoping one of the other pics represents her current body condition.


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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I assume that's your son in one of the photos? There's nothing you can do to increase the height of your dog any more than you can affect how tall your son will be when he's an adult. She will be as big as her genetics determine, that's not something you can change.
> 
> My adult female is about 22" tall and 25 kgs. I don't know how much she gained in height from 6 months old because I didn't measure her then, but at 6 months old she was 21 kgs. My guess is that your girl may end up slightly larger than mine but not by a lot.


He is my nephew.. n can u share ur fmale gsds pic?? It ll b great to watch.. 

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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> My girl Dena was 28-1/2 kgs at 6 months old, and matured to 32.5 kgs as an adult. I never measured her so I don't know how tall she was.


Awesome.. any pic of her?

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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

Fodder said:


> Not sure which photos are the most current, based on her tail and coat they were not all taken at the same time / age... in the third photo she looks incredibly thin. I'm hoping one of the other pics represents her current body condition.


Only last pic with kid is 20days old.. all other pics r from this week..

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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Sadly, Dena died in 2008 at 4 years old due to lymphoma. Here she is with her with her half brother Keefer (she is in the foreground with the tennis ball in her mouth) at about 3 years old:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

This is Halo with Keefer, she's about a year and a half old here:










A couple of months earlier than the photo above - as you can see, she's significantly smaller than he is:


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

My girl isn't tiny, she's about 70-71lbs, but she's the smallest of my 4 gsds. if I was to guess which of my 4 gsds might take on an intruder she'd be my first pick. Having the correct temperament and courage to do the work would be more important qualities than size.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Fodder said:


> Not sure which photos are the most current, based on her tail and coat they were not all taken at the same time / age... in the third photo she looks incredibly thin. I'm hoping one of the other pics represents her current body condition.


got to agree . Noticed this . Looks like her sides are sucked in and not a lot of apparent strong muscle in the rear .


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## NerdicEclipse (Feb 20, 2017)

As others have said, if you're wanting her to guard or protect (please get that training done properly though!) size isn't all that relevant. In fact if anything, a smaller and more agile dog is much more of a threat if you're on the receiving end. I'd rather get attacked by an over sized GSD than an average/small GSD or a Belgian Malinois any day of the week. There's a reason military and police dogs are not picked for their weight and height and generally are average or below in terms of size due to the added agility and stamina.


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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Sadly, Dena died in 2008 at 4 years old due to lymphoma. Here she is with her with her half brother Keefer (she is in the foreground with the tennis ball in her mouth) at about 3 years old:


Sorry for the dena.. she ws so attractive.. 

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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

Nigel said:


> My girl isn't tiny, she's about 70-71lbs, but she's the smallest of my 4 gsds. if I was to guess which of my 4 gsds might take on an intruder she'd be my first pick. Having the correct temperament and courage to do the work would be more important qualities than size.


Yes i agree.. 

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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

NerdicEclipse said:


> As others have said, if you're wanting her to guard or protect (please get that training done properly though!) size isn't all that relevant. In fact if anything, a smaller and more agile dog is much more of a threat if you're on the receiving end. I'd rather get attacked by an over sized GSD than an average/small GSD or a Belgian Malinois any day of the week. There's a reason military and police dogs are not picked for their weight and height and generally are average or below in terms of size due to the added agility and stamina.


Yaah.. bt dog is over friendly.. she loves human touch.. she allowes anyone to come in and licks them.. at what age dogs become territorial or protective?

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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

you may not see true protective behavior until she is as old as 2. Puppies (which she very much is) SHOULD see everyone as friendly. 
A guard dog that views everyone as a threat is more a liability than anything. A dog that views most humans as "good" has more basis to recognize someone as "bad"


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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

Dainerra said:


> you may not see true protective behavior until she is as old as 2. Puppies (which she very much is) SHOULD see everyone as friendly.
> A guard dog that views everyone as a threat is more a liability than anything. A dog that views most humans as "good" has more basis to recognize someone as "bad"


Well said...

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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Aw well be careful what you wish for. If you wanted a "larger dog" well you should have gotten a male or a different breed! 

But that aside ... a GSD that is not ... "particularly" found of strangers ... is a big "responsibility!" My "Rocky" ... foster fail, was to me ... just a big furry dog with a pointy face. And to my surprise ... he turned into 116 lbs of pack fighting ... I don't much care for uh ... anyone outside of Mom and Dad ... monster! He was a "responsibility" and a challenge, but it worked out well in the long run. 

But ... do your job well, just show her what "normal" human interaction looks like and if a situation arises that does not fit the "norm" arises??? If she has "The right stuff??" She will know the difference! Been there done that worked out fine ... in the long run. Sometimes ... size doesn't matter.


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## NerdicEclipse (Feb 20, 2017)

Katdhoom said:


> Yaah.. bt dog is over friendly.. she loves human touch.. she allowes anyone to come in and licks them.. at what age dogs become territorial or protective?
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo P2a42 using Tapatalk


It'll hit later if you allow it, most people don't as it makes the dog an extreme liability. Usually if people want a protection dog they start out with a proper trainer rather than just letting or encouraging a puppy to develop aggressive behaviors. At this age as has already been said she SHOULD be friendly. She's like a human baby. She's absorbing, learning and doesn't really have that type of a drive yet. She'll be two or near it before that will hit and before you can ethically expect it. They grow slowly. Not just on the outside, but on the inside as far as joints and musculature and all that.

But be very careful. Being protective requires TRAINING. There are no dogs that naturally, PROPERLY protect their home or people despite what some think. Some people think because their dog growled at a passerby or lunged at a shady looking character that they are instinctually protective and can count on them. This is not the case. It needs to be trained. It needs to be brought into the dog's behavior pattern properly. They need to learn how to discriminate between threats or non-threats, how to release when commanded, how to keep themselves safe as well (weapon recognition and response, etc). You do not just want a "territorial" dog you can't control. What happens when a small child invades your space without any ill intent? What happens if a family member that isn't well known to the dog visits and goes into the wrong room? Protection needs to be trained in. You can have an untrained, naturally protective dog but it will be useless as a *protection* dog. And protection dog needs to be able to discriminate and it needs to have an IMMEDIATE off switch, no matter what it needs to halt anything it's doing the instant you tell it to do so. That doesn't just "happen".

Be very careful what you wish for when wishing for aggression and trying to set the dog up to be aggressive without hiring a proper trainer specialized in the field. The next step after that is usually "My dog mauled a kid/killed another pet/shredded my wife's arm/etc. in the middle of the night when it came into the room. What do I do?".


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

honestly, when most people say that they want a "guard dog" or a "protection dog" they simply want a dog that will bark when someone comes around. That is easily taught and, if you want, you can teach her to bark on command and use that behavior as well. 
A dog that is truly protection trained and will bite is considered a weapon in many legal cases so that is something to think of as well. And a dog that is simply encouraged to react to people approaching is a HUGE liability as the dog doesn't really have any discretion or training and is more likely to bite an innocent than encounter a true danger. In the majority of cases, dogs that react to everyone are insecure and/or fearful. That means, in a true situation requiring protection, they will most likely back down from an intruder that shows the slightest lack of fear in them or acts aggressively to the dog.


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## NerdicEclipse (Feb 20, 2017)

Dainerra said:


> honestly, when most people say that they want a "guard dog" or a "protection dog" they simply want a dog that will bark when someone comes around. That is easily taught and, if you want, you can teach her to bark on command and use that behavior as well.
> A dog that is truly protection trained and will bite is considered a weapon in many legal cases so that is something to think of as well. And a dog that is simply encouraged to react to people approaching is a HUGE liability as the dog doesn't really have any discretion or training and is more likely to bite an innocent than encounter a true danger. In the majority of cases, dogs that react to everyone are insecure and/or fearful. That means, in a true situation requiring protection, they will most likely back down from an intruder that shows the slightest lack of fear in them or acts aggressively to the dog.


Yes, but the way he was so worried about the weight and height and aggressive behavior I assumed he's talking more about physical protection rather than alert. If this is not the case though, I apologize to the OP for assuming such.

But absolutely agree. People often mistake insecure vocalization with protection and strength. And with a dog intended to actually get "paws on" with protection they really need solid training. Here at least they're classed the same when used that way as a gun and the penalties for misusing them are just as severe as a gun. A dog that will be used that way needs to have discretion and rock solid obedience to go with it. In fact the only benefit to a protection dog over a firearm is that you should be able to call the dog back where you can't call back a bullet.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

NerdicEclipse said:


> Yes, but the way he was so worried about the weight and height and aggressive behavior I assumed he's talking more about physical protection rather than alert. If this is not the case though, I apologize to the OP for assuming such.
> 
> But absolutely agree. People often mistake insecure vocalization with protection and strength. And with a dog intended to actually get "paws on" with protection they really need solid training. Here at least they're classed the same when used that way as a gun and the penalties for misusing them are just as severe as a gun. A dog that will be used that way needs to have discretion and rock solid obedience to go with it. In fact the only benefit to a protection dog over a firearm is that you should be able to call the dog back where you can't call back a bullet.


They're usually concerned about weight and height because lots of people prefer bigger dogs. They're more intimidating than a smaller dog. And yeah when most people come here asking about guard dogs they really just want a dog that looks tough and barks.(Fear barking is considered protective usually) Most won't actually ever be in a situation where they'd want the dog to bite so it doesn't really matter if the dog does it not because they won't find out. Of course if they did get into that situation and the dog didn't bite they wouldn't be happy with that. So they'd like to think it would bite if needed. 

As to OP this pup is already about the size of my 3 year old so it should get to a decent size. Not sure how big you were hoping she'd get but she is still a pup, more time to grow.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Kazel said:


> They're usually concerned about weight and height because lots of people prefer bigger dogs. They're more intimidating than a smaller dog.


I think lots of people THINK a bigger dog is more intimidating, but not necessarily. My petite 55 pound female is way more intimidating than my 75+ pound male.


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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

NerdicEclipse said:


> It'll hit later if you allow it, most people don't as it makes the dog an extreme liability. Usually if people want a protection dog they start out with a proper trainer rather than just letting or encouraging a puppy to develop aggressive behaviors. At this age as has already been said she SHOULD be friendly. She's like a human baby. She's absorbing, learning and doesn't really have that type of a drive yet. She'll be two or near it before that will hit and before you can ethically expect it. They grow slowly. Not just on the outside, but on the inside as far as joints and musculature and all that.
> 
> But be very careful. Being protective requires TRAINING. There are no dogs that naturally, PROPERLY protect their home or people despite what some think. Some people think because their dog growled at a passerby or lunged at a shady looking character that they are instinctually protective and can count on them. This is not the case. It needs to be trained. It needs to be brought into the dog's behavior pattern properly. They need to learn how to discriminate between threats or non-threats, how to release when commanded, how to keep themselves safe as well (weapon recognition and response, etc). You do not just want a "territorial" dog you can't control. What happens when a small child invades your space without any ill intent? What happens if a family member that isn't well known to the dog visits and goes into the wrong room? Protection needs to be trained in. You can have an untrained, naturally protective dog but it will be useless as a *protection* dog. And protection dog needs to be able to discriminate and it needs to have an IMMEDIATE off switch, no matter what it needs to halt anything it's doing the instant you tell it to do so. That doesn't just "happen".
> 
> Be very careful what you wish for when wishing for aggression and trying to set the dog up to be aggressive without hiring a proper trainer specialized in the field. The next step after that is usually "My dog mauled a kid/killed another pet/shredded my wife's arm/etc. in the middle of the night when it came into the room. What do I do?".





Dainerra said:


> honestly, when most people say that they want a "guard dog" or a "protection dog" they simply want a dog that will bark when someone comes around. That is easily taught and, if you want, you can teach her to bark on command and use that behavior as well.
> A dog that is truly protection trained and will bite is considered a weapon in many legal cases so that is something to think of as well. And a dog that is simply encouraged to react to people approaching is a HUGE liability as the dog doesn't really have any discretion or training and is more likely to bite an innocent than encounter a true danger. In the majority of cases, dogs that react to everyone are insecure and/or fearful. That means, in a true situation requiring protection, they will most likely back down from an intruder that shows the slightest lack of fear in them or acts aggressively to the dog.





NerdicEclipse said:


> Yes, but the way he was so worried about the weight and height and aggressive behavior I assumed he's talking more about physical protection rather than alert. If this is not the case though, I apologize to the OP for assuming such.
> 
> But absolutely agree. People often mistake insecure vocalization with protection and strength. And with a dog intended to actually get "paws on" with protection they really need solid training. Here at least they're classed the same when used that way as a gun and the penalties for misusing them are just as severe as a gun. A dog that will be used that way needs to have discretion and rock solid obedience to go with it. In fact the only benefit to a protection dog over a firearm is that you should be able to call the dog back where you can't call back a bullet.





Kazel said:


> They're usually concerned about weight and height because lots of people prefer bigger dogs. They're more intimidating than a smaller dog. And yeah when most people come here asking about guard dogs they really just want a dog that looks tough and barks.(Fear barking is considered protective usually) Most won't actually ever be in a situation where they'd want the dog to bite so it doesn't really matter if the dog does it not because they won't find out. Of course if they did get into that situation and the dog didn't bite they wouldn't be happy with that. So they'd like to think it would bite if needed.
> 
> As to OP this pup is already about the size of my 3 year old so it should get to a decent size. Not sure how big you were hoping she'd get but she is still a pup, more time to grow.


Yes i agree most people doesn't want to spend money and time on protection training.. they assume every guard dog has protective drive and they will protect them without any training.. but some people including me wants a dog who alerts me.. n i knw dog can bark on my relatives friends or who comes in bt thats ok bcos i dont want my dog to learn like a human or i dont have that much time to teach my dog all the good stuff and the 100% correct way of behaving.. it depends on individual requirement/personal choice/preference, i started this topic on diff point but got very useful information on dogs behavior and training.. i appreciate and thanks to everyone who added valuable info on this topic.. 

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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

Dainerra said:


> honestly, when most people say that they want a "guard dog" or a "protection dog" they simply want a dog that will bark when someone comes around. That is easily taught and, if you want, you can teach her to bark on command and use that behavior as well.
> A dog that is truly protection trained and will bite is considered a weapon in many legal cases so that is something to think of as well. And a dog that is simply encouraged to react to people approaching is a HUGE liability as the dog doesn't really have any discretion or training and is more likely to bite an innocent than encounter a true danger. In the majority of cases, dogs that react to everyone are insecure and/or fearful. That means, in a true situation requiring protection, they will most likely back down from an intruder that shows the slightest lack of fear in them or acts aggressively to the dog.


I will work on it.. ur comment is an eye opening for me..

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## Katdhoom (Aug 16, 2017)

NerdicEclipse said:


> Yes, but the way he was so worried about the weight and height and aggressive behavior I assumed he's talking more about physical protection rather than alert. If this is not the case though, I apologize to the OP for assuming such.
> 
> But absolutely agree. People often mistake insecure vocalization with protection and strength. And with a dog intended to actually get "paws on" with protection they really need solid training. Here at least they're classed the same when used that way as a gun and the penalties for misusing them are just as severe as a gun. A dog that will be used that way needs to have discretion and rock solid obedience to go with it. In fact the only benefit to a protection dog over a firearm is that you should be able to call the dog back where you can't call back a bullet.


Well said.. 

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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Katdhoom said:


> Hello guys.. this is my 6 month female.. her height is 22inch and length is 40inch.. her weight is 20kg.. my concern is her size.. i like big gsd's but i doubt she will grow big.. guys can u predict how big she will grow.. her mother was avg height.. and what can i do to increase her height.. pls advise..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is no way possible for the above puppy to meet your needs. You can PM me for address and shipping information, and I will take her off you hands. :grin2:

Really she is a beauty. Males are supposed to be bigger than the females. Maybe you can find an adult male that has the size that you want to complement her. 

I have two right now, that are her size. One trades her puppy label for young adult tomorrow, as she will be two. 22" and 52 pounds. The other is a year and a half. 22 inches and 52 pounds. They are on the small side of the standard, which is refreshing considering all the over-sized bitches out there. I mean, 90 pound bitches are huge. Most of my girls have an ideal weight between 64 and 72 pounds. I figure my little ones will have an ideal weight around 56 - 60 pounds. And at my age, it is probably just as well, lifting Babs or Odie or even Bear up onto the grooming table is a bit of a challenge now. 

Reminds me of a little tune: You don't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need. I would have never believed that I would want a small GSD (I call these little girls Tea-cups, LOL). But, right now I am really enjoying everything about them. 

If you really do want a bigger puppy, maybe return this one to the breeder and when you pick your next pup, sorry but it could be an old wives' tale, but I find the ones that have the heavier bone, the bigger paws, do tend to grow out larger. Look for sire and dam to be 24" for the female and 26" for the male. Chances are you will then get the pup you are looking for.


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