# How do your bite sport clubs....



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

How do your clubs determine who can join or not? What are the requirements? Are there contracts? Trial periods? Title expectations and time frames? How do you screen visitors? 

Any info is greatly appreciated.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Very simple, show progress towards titling the dog. After titling, handler is invited to join club.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Packen said:


> Very simple, show progress towards titling the dog. After titling, handler is invited to join club.


That is simple. How do you then deal with a "bad apple"? How do you try and prevent that from happening?


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

mycobraracr said:


> That is simple. How do you then deal with a "bad apple"? How do you try and prevent that from happening?


Define bad apple.


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## wolfmanusf (Apr 5, 2012)

I've been in a couple of clubs that have ranged from very strict to join and stay a member to allowing anyone to join. Ultimately, I have found that the bad eggs generally filter themselves out. In the strict club, they were just simply asked not to come back (hardly ever came to that because we are brutal with each other in criticisms of dogs, not many people can handle that). In the other club, they were just kind of ignored and socially ostracized from the club because they were recognized to be cancers.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Packen said:


> Define bad apple.



I will say, someone who is always causing drama/conflict within the club. IME, it's dogs come and go so at the end of the day you're stuck with the people. People can make a training day fun or ruin it for everyone.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I have been a member of a few different types of clubs. One where they are so geared towards trialing and being successful that nothing else mattered. Two where it was all about the people and who cares if the dogs ever title. How do you create one where everyone pushes one another in a positive way to succeed to the best of THEIR and the DOGS ability? With great people who want to achieve their best without the need to put other members down?


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

mycobraracr said:


> I will say, someone who is always causing drama/conflict within the club. IME, it's dogs come and go so at the end of the day you're stuck with the people. People can make a training day fun or ruin it for everyone.


The title condition reduces the drama crowd by 95%, the cream 5% that meet the condition to be considered for membership are either,

1. Are drama free and willing to learn/help
2. Learm to become drama free or leave


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Packen said:


> The title condition reduces the drama crowd by 95%, the cream 5% that meet the condition to be considered for membership are either,
> 
> 1. Are drama free and willing to learn/help
> 2. Learm to become drama free or leave


Makes sense. Easier said then done I think. Well, not the leave part. I would just rather avoid that if possible. 

Now the question is, do you put a time frame on titling? I.E. You must earn a title within 18 months of training. Puppies excluded.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'm in a club that lets others join after the team has visited on a regular basis several times and then the members 'vote' on it. Not much as far as drama goes, though life gets in the way and frustrates now and then. The club is mostly word of mouth as far as anyone even knowing we exist...no website, and we aren't affiliated with a larger organization as we have no trial field to host trials. 
I'm also with a pay to train group that is super supportive of each other and there really is no drama/ even with so many teams coming and going. This group held a trial this past weekend and it was just amazing how supportive EVERYONE was with each other(and all the ones who aren't part of this group that trialed) That dynamic is set by the helper and his track record, he really has no enemies, tries to do his best by everyone and is in it for the right reasons. The prices are reasonable/worth every penny. 

I feel very lucky to be a part of two great groups.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

More like within a year show progress towards achieving goal, meaning listening, doing homework and demonstrating progress in club sessions. These teams deserve the most support, now they can get ready to title. Key is to visualize success as a whole, meaning if I help someone and they achieve goal then it is my success also and vice versa. 

Socialization is a by product of training success, never the initial goal. Very true, easier said than done but it is being done repeatedly. Best way to learn is to hang out with such outfits that have a track record.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> I'm in a club that lets others join after the team has visited on a regular basis several times and then the members 'vote' on it. Not much as far as drama goes, though life gets in the way and frustrates now and then. The club is mostly word of mouth as far as anyone even knowing we exist...no website, and we aren't affiliated with a larger organization as we have no trial field to host trials.
> I'm also with a pay to train group that is super supportive of each other and there really is no drama/ even with so many teams coming and going. This group held a trial this past weekend and it was just amazing how supportive EVERYONE was with each other(and all the ones who aren't part of this group that trialed) That dynamic is set by the helper and his track record, he really has no enemies, tries to do his best by everyone and is in it for the right reasons. The prices are reasonable/worth every penny.
> 
> I feel very lucky to be a part of two great groups.


A combination of your groups is exactly what I'm trying to set up. Myself and the main helper are drama free. We will help anyone who is putting in the same effort. I expect other members to help when needed as well. I also hate sideline comments. Constructive criticism is one thing but trash talking is not tolerated. We are not advertising anything, but everyday we are getting contacted by others who want to come train with us. I want to set up something in writing that people can get up front to tell them how we do things. No surprises. I have already written similar rules to what you stated. Basically a team must visit for a while so we can get to know them before we will allow them to apply for membership.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Packen said:


> Key is to visualize success as a whole, meaning if I help someone and they achieve goal then it is my success also and vice versa.


I love this! I just had a conversation the other day with someone. I explained how as a helper I feel all the dogs in the group are my dog. I have a ton of effort and energy invested in these dogs. If they fail, then I truly feel like it's my failure. Like I didn't set them up for success.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Also the rules that you make, try to apply them to yourself also. Lead by example. Train, title and compete with your dogs, then you can ask for others to follow by example.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Packen said:


> Also the rules that you make, try to apply them to yourself also. Lead by example. Train, title and compete with your dogs, then you can ask for others to follow by example.


Agreed, I was a Sergeant in the Marine Corps and currently a shop manager. I never asked my Marines or employees to do something that I wouldn't or haven't done myself. It's how I've always led and it's been very effective for me. Thanks for all the feedback.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

My question would be what the benefits of membership are. What I've began to realize is that many times, membership and voting, starts to get in the way of dog training. Unfortunately, when people invest a substantial amount of money, they start to want a say in things and the whole thing gets very jumbled. Change is very slow when a whole group has to vote on something and people quickly get upset when people get preferential treatment over others.

Maybe the key is to avoid membership costs...that way no one really feels like they are share holders.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

martemchik said:


> My question would be what the benefits of membership are. What I've began to realize is that many times, membership and voting, starts to get in the way of dog training. Unfortunately, when people invest a substantial amount of money, they start to want a say in things and the whole thing gets very jumbled. Change is very slow when a whole group has to vote on something and people quickly get upset when people get preferential treatment over others.
> 
> Maybe the key is to avoid membership costs...that way no one really feels like they are share holders.


In my first club, the membership fee was significantly less than guest fee. Unless you titled and were invited to join, you continued to pay guest fee. Hence the membership benefit


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

This brings up something else. Fees. IME the clubs that have cheap club dues also have less dedicated people. Yes there are exceptions. Where, say a pay to play that is more costly has more dedicated people. Again just an observation I have noticed in the places I have been. The more money people invest, the more dedicated they are to succeed.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

clubs also have to carry insurance, and ours is finding it difficult to get it without paying a hefty premium.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> clubs also have to carry insurance, and ours is finding it difficult to get it without paying a hefty premium.



We already have insurance. I find that to be very important. CYA, cover your a$$.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Packen said:


> Also the rules that you make, try to apply them to yourself also. Lead by example. Train, title and compete with your dogs, then you can ask for others to follow by example.


That is super important to repeat. Many people lead in a "do as I say not as I do" mentality where the rules don't apply to them. Their excuse is usually tied to how many years experience they have or something else. I'm not talking about dog training "rules" that are frequently adjusted based on the individual dog. I am talking about club rules. 

If you want your members to show up early, make sure you show up first. If you want them to help setup/teardown equipment, be the first one to offer help. etc.

People can get... elitist we should say, and apply the rules to others and not themselves. That can create resentment. Some might say well it's my club or I'm the helper, etc... thus I don't have to do XYZ, but remember people follow actions. You start making excuses for yourself and you quickly find that other people will make their own excuses.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

If you have someone in a club you don't want tell them they will leave-it is pretty simple people don't stay where they are not wanted...


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

ayoitzrimz said:


> That is super important to repeat. Many people lead in a "do as I say not as I do" mentality where the rules don't apply to them. Their excuse is usually tied to how many years experience they have or something else. I'm not talking about dog training "rules" that are frequently adjusted based on the individual dog. I am talking about club rules.
> 
> If you want your members to show up early, make sure you show up first. If you want them to help setup/teardown equipment, be the first one to offer help. etc.
> 
> People can get... elitist we should say, and apply the rules to others and not themselves. That can create resentment. Some might say well it's my club or I'm the helper, etc... thus I don't have to do XYZ, but remember people follow actions. You start making excuses for yourself and you quickly find that other people will make their own excuses.


^^^ :thumbup: I agree with you guys. Thanks again for the input.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

holland said:


> If you have someone in a club you don't want tell them they will leave-it is pretty simple people don't stay where they are not wanted...


Maybe, but it's very easy for one person to completely tarnish another's reputation online. People will go to great lengths to revenge not being welcomed with open arms and told how special and awesome they are. The last thing you want is for any google search on your club to return with someone trashing it under fake email addresses.

So while I agree with you in an ideal world, and I would handle being told I'm not wanted somewhere by moving on and finding a place that is a better fit there are some petty people out there.


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