# My dog will be a jerk to another dogs....



## karladupler (Mar 22, 2016)

So I take my dog to the dog park the firsts months he would do great to be honest but this month i noticed this, if he see's another dog running he will chase the dog and mouth him (butt area) or if my dog is faster we will grab their neck/collar and try to put them down and theeen he will mouth the dog of course the other dog is all freaked out the other owner dog is too but he mostly do it with tiny dogs...I'm working on correcting him about that but not sure why that behavior this week we went twice and he picked THE SAME DOG a...6 months or 5 month female tiny pitbull (the funny thing was the only dog that was running with no purpose at all at the dog park...she wasn't chasing anyone or a ball nothing just running to sniff or....whatever) some people take it as playing... but still I kinda hate this behavior of my dog and I have tried everything to get him into chasing tennis balls or just to play with me and he only will do it if there's not dogs around... haha so the behavior is like more like a high prey drive?


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Yes, its prey drive and will probably escalate. We like to think it is all innocent fun and games. It isn't. It is an instinct of the hunt. This can easily escalate once he goes after a dog that turns on him in fear or defense...or offense. This is the problem with dog parks more generally IMHO. If the other dog is "freaked out" that is a big problem that you need to take care of.

Dog parks may be too stimulating for your dog as his instincts and drives develop. Go back to basic obedience. Work outside the fence at a dog park until you have great obedience with distractions. I personally would stay out of dog parks all together.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

"Capping drives" was a concept I had never heard of before getting my first GSD. Simon has a very high prey drive. Still at 2.5 years old, he runs after every insect when loose in the back yard. I limit his time out there alone some days because he is out there catching bees and eating them again and again. 

Working on obedience is important. It helps the young dog to learn to begin to have self control--or "cap his drives." You want to start that now as when your pup is full grown, that uncapped drive to chase will take you down if you hold on to the leash. That uncapped drive can lead to lunging and barking, etc.

Stay out of dog parks, JMO.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

"Play" is mutual, both parties are having a good time, it's give and take, chase and be chased, roll and be rolled, etc...
which this doesn't sound like.
Sounds like prey drive to me too, and a serious lack of respect for 'those dogs'. I did take my high prey drive dog to a dog park (Dynamo, gsd, possible working lines) but not before I had a rock solid (ie, mid-chase proofed) recall. Basically, and 'hard chase' needs to be stopped before it starts, or just don't go to the dog park. Also, keep your dog out of 'dog mobs' that chase, harrass or bully other dogs, because dogs will cue off other dogs, and the victim dog can become very frightened, which in turn will evoke the worst behaviours.
If he engages in mutual safe play, AND you can call him out of any questionable chases, okay then. If not, stay out of the dog park. He's having more fun chasing (and scaring) other dogs than playing with you. Of course he's going to keep doing that.
Can you find another 'safe' place to play ball with him? Without enticing fast running dogs?


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## karladupler (Mar 22, 2016)

It's just weird we have awesome days at the dog park we have crappy days at the dog park some how if the other dogs growl or make something to make my dog stop my dog will stop it but dogs that are submissive is just forget about it he will pick on him and is just hard for us to find a place that he can really run free we live in Los Angeles...but yeah at some point I'm over the dog park we need to find a spot that is off-leash it's just really had in this city he have too many laws about dogs been off leash...ridiculous (not really cause is for the safety of dogs but is getting annoying) and I have another question so couple weeks ago i heard about the famous "FLIRT POLE" We have one now and he LOVES it and make him work first for play with the toy do you think at this point using the pole I am reenforcing him to make his prey drive more higher? Another thing! Because of that i got him a ecollar and his trainer explain to me how to use it when etc. and we used it for 3 days he totally got the concept of...chasing and been chased is ok but MOUTHING is not OK unfortunately I had to return the collar cause I didn't had money for his vet so...it was a 3 day thing and after a week of not having that collar he was ok but then he started to do it again... haha


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

The flirt pole is excellent. Increasing his prey drive for 'appropriate prey' (that being toys) is exactly what you want to do. Build on that, and as you are 'making him work for it' you are building his obedience and self control at the same time. And maybe you don't need the dog park experience after all.

I did use an e-collar with Dynamo, but only to reinforce a learned recall (to call her off deer and other wildlife) but also meant I could control her at the dog park. BUT, I too stopped going, in her case because other people would always let the dogs she liked to play with (mutual fun play) harrass and bully weaker dogs, which meant I had to call her out of the 'dog mob' and then there were no dogs to play with anyway. I was/am, lucky enough to have forests to take a dog off-leash. Dynamo's 'acceptable' prey of choice was soft frisbee. 

I'd just skip the dog park if I were you, unless there are times when there are dogs that will not illicit/entice bad behaviour in your dog. Also, much cheaper, you don't need the e-collar then, right?


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## karladupler (Mar 22, 2016)

islanddog said:


> The flirt pole is excellent. Increasing his prey drive for 'appropriate prey' (that being toys) is exactly what you want to do. Build on that, and as you are 'making him work for it' you are building his obedience and self control at the same time. And maybe you don't need the dog park experience after all.
> 
> I did use an e-collar with Dynamo, but only to reinforce a learned recall (to call her off deer and other wildlife) but also meant I could control her at the dog park. BUT, I too stopped going, in her case because other people would always let the dogs she liked to play with (mutual fun play) harrass and bully weaker dogs, which meant I had to call her out of the 'dog mob' and then there were no dogs to play with anyway. I was/am, lucky enough to have forests to take a dog off-leash. Dynamo's 'acceptable' prey of choice was soft frisbee.
> 
> I'd just skip the dog park if I were you, unless there are times when there are dogs that will not illicit/entice bad behaviour in your dog. Also, much cheaper, you don't need the e-collar then, right?


Noo I don't have it anymore! :'( and it was working like a charm! He does recall soooooo good but if he's on the middle of "hunting the other dog" is SO hard to snap his mind out it if he's not in the process of it he will come to me and so jealous that you have a forest around you...sooooo jealous that...you have no idea ahahaha I defiantly have to find a spot...or just go to the dog park super late or super early when there's no people around and play with my dog....i was thinking to buy a cheap helicopter kinda drone and make him run with that he LOVES hunting bugs... that might work as like making him run! What you do to socialize your doggie with other dogs?


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## Gunny (Jun 15, 2016)

We used to take our girl to the Dog Park also....

When I determined that it's not the best place to be we looked into alternate areas...

Any schools in your area? Usually good places to take your dog and sometime run into others for socialization . Soccer fields are also good places....HTH...:smile2:


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

karladupler said:


> It's just weird we have awesome days at the dog park we have crappy days at the dog park some how if the other dogs growl or make something to make my dog stop my dog will stop it but dogs that are submissive is just forget about it he will pick on him and is just hard for us to find a place that he can really run free we live in Los Angeles...but yeah at some point I'm over the dog park we need to find a spot that is off-leash it's just really had in this city he have too many laws about dogs been off leash...ridiculous (not really cause is for the safety of dogs but is getting annoying) and I have another question so couple weeks ago i heard about the famous "FLIRT POLE" We have one now and he LOVES it and make him work first for play with the toy do you think at this point using the pole I am reenforcing him to make his prey drive more higher? Another thing! Because of that i got him a ecollar and his trainer explain to me how to use it when etc. and we used it for 3 days he totally got the concept of...chasing and been chased is ok but MOUTHING is not OK unfortunately I had to return the collar cause I didn't had money for his vet so...it was a 3 day thing and after a week of not having that collar he was ok but then he started to do it again... haha


I would be cautious about finding other places to run your dog off leash. As a fellow city dweller, I have found those out of the way places in or near the city are often highly sought out by others who have problem dogs and are not good dog park candidates so you might be running into more problems in those places than in a dog park.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

DutchKarin said:


> Yes, its prey drive and will probably escalate. We like to think it is all innocent fun and games. It isn't. It is an instinct of the hunt. This can easily escalate once he goes after a dog that turns on him in fear or defense...or offense. This is the problem with dog parks more generally IMHO. If the other dog is "freaked out" that is a big problem that you need to take care of.
> 
> Dog parks may be too stimulating for your dog as his instincts and drives develop. Go back to basic obedience. Work outside the fence at a dog park until you have great obedience with distractions. I personally would stay out of dog parks all together.


Do you take your dutch to dog parks? if not what do you do to socialize it?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

German Shepherds play differently than any other dog I've seen. What you describe is exactly how my female initiates play with my male. They sound like they are killing each. It's all teeth and mouthing and groaning and sneezing. It's likely your dog is trying to play. However, other dogs are not going to appreciate it. I would nix the dog parks.


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## karladupler (Mar 22, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I would be cautious about finding other places to run your dog off leash. As a fellow city dweller, I have found those out of the way places in or near the city are often highly sought out by others who have problem dogs and are not good dog park candidates so you might be running into more problems in those places than in a dog park.


Woah! Never thought of that! Thank you for pointing that out!


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## karladupler (Mar 22, 2016)

Jax08 said:


> German Shepherds play differently than any other dog I've seen. What you describe is exactly how my female initiates play with my male. They sound like they are killing each. It's all teeth and mouthing and groaning and sneezing. It's likely your dog is trying to play. However, other dogs are not going to appreciate it. I would nix the dog parks.


Lmao that's so true hahahaha german shepherds owners are like....no worries is a german shepherd thing...I feel so lucky when there's another german shepherds at the dog park...they just make their pack and play with each other and ignore the other dogs around who are not german shepherds i love that


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

My vet suggested dog parks aren't necessarily great for dogs; he said your dog would rather spend time with you plus a lot of owners don't vaccinate properly or fully ie kennel cough. Maybe he's wrong but I'd rather walk with my dog for an hour than stand around watching him for an hour. The only thing we miss out on is constant socializing but there are regulars we see walking that he gets the "meet and greet". But that's just my personal preference plus I have access to a lot of nice walking areas.

Edit - he got giardia 3 times which I'm convinced was from the park


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Julian G said:


> Do you take your dutch to dog parks? if not what do you do to socialize it?


Walking into a dog park with most dutchies is begging for a fight. It is almost laughable to think of it. Dutchies and mals usually have a very thin line between play and aggression. My dutch loves to play but has a hair trigger into fight if he feels the need. And I do mean fighting to win. The progression from hunt to kill (figuratively, sort of, speaking) is lightening fast. They are also a very dominant confident breed and while you can get great obedience on them if you work and earn it, it sort of makes a dog park silly. I can walk and hike with many other dogs but one or two at a time and they can't be challenging my dog constantly. He tolerates it now that he is older (never as a teenage punk) but he has a limit and then he lets it all loose. 

Dutchies, Mals and some GSD require what Mike Ritland, Navy Seal, in his book Team Dog says...constant situational awareness. It is the price of working with this type of dog.

Sorry for hijacking. Julian, start your own threads and as I said, join the FB page for more Dutch related stuff.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Re socializing:

Read this entire thread. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

karladupler said:


> I defiantly have to find a spot...or just go to the dog park super late or super early when there's no people around and play with my dog....i was thinking to buy a cheap helicopter kinda drone and make him run with that he LOVES hunting bugs... that might work as like making him run! What you do to socialize your doggie with other dogs?


I'd skip the drone, get a long-line, find some open (boring) space, play with your dog.

Socializing depends on the dog. There's much to be said about teaching your dog that other dogs are boring, and you are great fun, whether it's training, treats, or toys or all three.

On leash, I teach my current guy, 'dog avoidance', which is usually a 'dogs equal treats' game (google LAT training or 'look at that game'). It requires ample space and a way to control the distance & behaviour of the other dog.
When that fails, I use leash manners, and get him 'by' other dogs with minimum fuss, and do the 'dogs equal treats' thing after the fact, as on 'look, see, the dog did not try to eat you, fun, right?'. Sonic is the type of dog your dog would scare the snot out of. 
Your dog is more like Dynamo was. For her, I used a socialized kennel/daycare staffed with really dog knowledgeable people, who test and rejected inappropriate dogs and supervised the action. She did VERY well there. I stopped letting her greet dogs in the woods as she would bully weaker/scared dogs and I was lousy at predicting which ones they would be.
Don't be jealous, off-leash forest walks are full of their own hazards and temptations.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

DutchKarin said:


> *Dutchies, Mals and some GSD require what Mike Ritland, Navy Seal, in his book Team Dog says...constant situational awareness. It is the price of working with this type of dog.*
> 
> Sorry for hijacking. Julian, start your own threads and as I said, join the FB page for more Dutch related stuff.


Sorry for going off topic here too, but I found that comment very noteworthy.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

karladupler said:


> Lmao that's so true hahahaha german shepherds owners are like....no worries is a german shepherd thing...I feel so lucky when there's another german shepherds at the dog park...they just make their pack and play with each other and ignore the other dogs around who are not german shepherds i love that


They totally do! I've had GSDs in transit to rescue that would only play with my female. Jax has NEVER played with our Boxers. Ever. They don't play with her. But bring another Shepherd in? Game on! 

My SIL was watching them play one day and started her "Be nice". I laughed. That IS nice!


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I would be cautious about finding other places to run your dog off leash. As a fellow city dweller, I have found those out of the way places in or near the city are often highly sought out by others who have problem dogs and are not good dog park candidates so you might be running into more problems in those places than in a dog park.


Oh gosh, I completely forgot about that when I suggested it. 

My current guy, Sonic, gets along well with dogs in the forest with a pond, where everyone congregates, and not so well in another forest where there are fewer dogs. 
I'm guessing the latter forest is where the 'reactive dog owners' take their dogs. I practice dog avoidance in the one forest, and let him mix with dogs at the pond. 

So yes, be very careful of dogs in those out of the way places. Most people have ZERO control of their off-leash dogs.


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## karladupler (Mar 22, 2016)

DutchKarin said:


> Walking into a dog park with most dutchies is begging for a fight. It is almost laughable to think of it. Dutchies and mals usually have a very thin line between play and aggression. My dutch loves to play but has a hair trigger into fight if he feels the need. And I do mean fighting to win. The progression from hunt to kill (figuratively, sort of, speaking) is lightening fast. They are also a very dominant confident breed and while you can get great obedience on them if you work and earn it, it sort of makes a dog park silly. I can walk and hike with many other dogs but one or two at a time and they can't be challenging my dog constantly. He tolerates it now that he is older (never as a teenage punk) but he has a limit and then he lets it all loose.
> 
> Dutchies, Mals and some GSD require what Mike Ritland, Navy Seal, in his book Team Dog says...constant situational awareness. It is the price of working with this type of dog.
> 
> Sorry for hijacking. Julian, start your own threads and as I said, join the FB page for more Dutch related stuff.


That sounds...so scary and wrong from hunt to kill and my german shepherd is very tolerant i have only saw him once growling to another dog actually gonna do more re-search about that is been super interesting to have a german shepherd he's my first dog ever and he's a rescue I got him when he was 14-13 months old I totally missed when he was a puppy no idea how the ex-owner treated him (i can tell he was abused he was scared of brooms/mops) but all the training is been fun but i am totally figuring out how this dogs work and so far i love them but still there's a lot more to teach and learn. Totally reading the book you're recommending thanks!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

islanddog said:


> Oh gosh, I completely forgot about that when I suggested it.
> 
> My current guy, Sonic, gets along well with dogs in the forest with a pond, where everyone congregates, and not so well in another forest where there are fewer dogs.
> I'm guessing the latter forest is where the 'reactive dog owners' take their dogs. I practice dog avoidance in the one forest, and let him mix with dogs at the pond.
> ...


I would not say that most people have zero control of their off leash dogs, in fact I have found the opposite. Especially in the city, there are so few places to let a dog run without extensive driving that people tend to let their dogs loose where ever they can and the dogs have been taught good off leash behavior early on. It is usually the dogs that are always kept leashed in the city that I have found to be the most problematic and I am very wary of a leashed dog in areas where most others have their dogs off leash. I also found those dogs that are leashed aren't necessarily the problem, but more often than not, it is the owner who has issues. :wink2:

But I have found that many loose dogs in out of the way areas may be a dominant male dog that may not play nice with other dominant male dogs, or they can be dogs in training for dog reactivity, others can be downright dog aggressive, etc.


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## karladupler (Mar 22, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I would not say that most people have zero control of their off leash dogs, in fact I have found the opposite. Especially in the city, there are so few places to let a dog run without extensive driving that people tend to let their dogs loose where ever they can and the dogs have been taught good off leash behavior early on. It is usually the dogs that are always kept leashed in the city that I have found to be the most problematic and I am very wary of a leashed dog in areas where most others have their dogs off leash. I also found those dogs that are leashed aren't necessarily the problem, but more often than not, it is the owner who has issues. :wink2:
> 
> But I have found that many loose dogs in out of the way areas may be a dominant male dog that may not play nice with other dominant male dogs, or they can be dogs in training for dog reactivity, others can be downright dog aggressive, etc.


Totally guilty of having my dog off leash when I can HAHAHAHA find out that he does better off leash... pretty much he follows me we only do this on hiking places when we don't have people around, I am always watching when people comes towards us I just put his leash on... so far hating the fact that we live in a city and really far from ponds/lakes...can't say beach but in fact in the whole LA area there's only 2 dog beaches....MAYBE there's another one but i have only heard about 2 haha. Well my dogs needs lots of self control! We will work on that


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I would not say that most people have zero control of their off leash dogs, in fact I have found the opposite. Especially in the city, there are so few places to let a dog run without extensive driving that people tend to let their dogs loose where ever they can and the dogs have been taught good off leash behavior early on. It is usually the dogs that are always kept leashed in the city that I have found to be the most problematic and I am very wary of a leashed dog in areas where most others have their dogs off leash. I also found those dogs that are leashed aren't necessarily the problem, but more often than not, it is the owner who has issues. :wink2:
> 
> But I have found that many loose dogs in out of the way areas may be a dominant male dog that may not play nice with other dominant male dogs, or they can be dogs in training for dog reactivity, others can be downright dog aggressive, etc.


Different places, I guess. In the woods where I walk, owners just cross their fingers and hope for the best, no recall, but some dogs stick close and others run off hunting everything. At the dog park, no recall, but the dogs are pretty good to each other.

As for 'leashed dog' in off leash places, yes, I consider them a 'no go zone' but unfortunately, others do not and let their off-leash dog fly into a leashed dogs face, which often results in nothing good. 

Had lots of tiffs with owners when I had Dynamo on leash. They simply could not control their dogs. I guess in the city, people are mindful of traffic hazards and take better care?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

islanddog said:


> Different places, I guess. In the woods where I walk, owners just cross their fingers and hope for the best, no recall, but some dogs stick close and others run off hunting everything. At the dog park, no recall, but the dogs are pretty good to each other.
> 
> As for 'leashed dog' in off leash places, yes, I consider them a 'no go zone' but unfortunately, others do not and let their off-leash dog fly into a leashed dogs face, which often results in nothing good.
> 
> Had lots of tiffs with owners when I had Dynamo on leash. They simply could not control their dogs. I guess in the city, people are mindful of traffic hazards and take better care?


Although I have seen, and owned, dogs that are street traffic worthy, most people do leash in high traffic areas.

There was a dog that used to be owned by a garage not far from me with a parking lot across the highway. The garage was located on a well traveled four lane highway very close to a large shopping mall, a business district, a busy bus route, and an huge amusement park. That dog seriously must have lived to be twenty years old and I watched that dog never step foot off that curb year after year after year.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Although I have seen, and owned, dogs that are street traffic worthy, most people do leash in high traffic areas.
> 
> There was a dog that used to be owned by a garage not far from me with a parking lot across the highway. The garage was located on a well traveled four lane highway very close to a large shopping mall, a business district, a busy bus route, and an huge amusement park. That dog seriously must have lived to be twenty years old and I watched that dog never step foot off that curb year after year after year.


I once saw a 'garage dog' that was like that. I always wonder if they are just a rare sensible dog, or did the owner do some serious boundary training?

...but I do have to ask, when you say 'owners have control of their off leash dog', do you mean that they can call their dogs away/off from other dogs consistently and easilly? I've just never seen that kind of obedience in pet dogs either at the dog park or the forest. I'm actually very relieved to be in the 'sometimes off-leash' stage with Sonic, as I now can drop his long-line when faced with off leash dogs, or control him when I see on-leash dogs, but I'm a complete WEIRDO in my neck of the woods to the point that people still remember me and Dynamo and the stupid blue long-line (which I'm using again now) from fourteen years ago.
As in, I remember you, and that german shepherd, you used to come to pond with a REALLY LONG LEASH...infamous, although leads to some nice conversations, I can tell I stick out like a sore thumb.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

islanddog said:


> I once saw a 'garage dog' that was like that. I always wonder if they are just a rare sensible dog, or did the owner do some serious boundary training?
> 
> ...but I do have to ask, when you say 'owners have control of their off leash dog', do you mean that they can call their dogs away/off from other dogs consistently and easilly? I've just never seen that kind of obedience in pet dogs either at the dog park or the forest. I'm actually very relieved to be in the 'sometimes off-leash' stage with Sonic, as I now can drop his long-line when faced with off leash dogs, or control him when I see on-leash dogs, but I'm a complete WEIRDO in my neck of the woods to the point that people still remember me and Dynamo and the stupid blue long-line (which I'm using again now) from fourteen years ago.
> As in, I remember you, and that german shepherd, you used to come to pond with a REALLY LONG LEASH...infamous, although leads to some nice conversations, I can tell I stick out like a sore thumb.


I don't know. I grew up where nobody leashed dogs unless they were aggressive and most of them did quite nicely. I know a few that were bumped by cars throughout the years, no serious injuries and none that were killed by cars. I am sure it happened, it just wasn't routine. Leashed dogs break free and get hit by cars too, I guess it evens out.

When I say that owners have off leash control of their dogs, I am saying that under most circumstances, the dogs won't even approach another dog that it sees unless in very close proximity and even then. They can be playing in a group or with one other dog and can either be called out and will respond immediately or you don't even have to call them, just walk away, as they periodically will check in and will voluntarily leave to follow their owners. It is considered normal dog behavior in the parks around me. I think the most important thing that I have noticed is that the people here don't consider another dog, or their own dog being off leash, a big deal like some people do who panic or react and create the problems they are trying to control.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I don't know. I grew up where nobody leashed dogs unless they were aggressive and most of them did quite nicely. I know a few that were bumped by cars throughout the years, no serious injuries and none that were killed by cars. I am sure it happened, it just wasn't routine. Leashed dogs break free and get hit by cars too, I guess it evens out.
> 
> When I say that owners have off leash control of their dogs, I am saying that under most circumstances, the dogs won't even approach another dog that it sees unless in very close proximity and even then. They can be playing in a group or with one other dog and can either be called out and will respond immediately or you don't even have to call them, just walk away, as they periodically will check in and will voluntarily leave to follow their owners. It is considered normal dog behavior in the parks around me. I think the most important thing that I have noticed is that the people here don't consider another dog, or their own dog being off leash, a big deal like some people do who panic or react and create the problems they are trying to control.


So they are off-leash a lot and so are the other dogs? The behaviour (being under control like that) just sounds completely outside my experience. 
Sounds absolutely wonderful, though.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

islanddog said:


> So they are off-leash a lot and so are the other dogs? The behaviour (being under control like that) just sounds completely outside my experience.
> Sounds absolutely wonderful, though.


The dogs are off leash and are mostly raised off leash. It is natural for a puppy to stay close to you for the first few months. Take advantage of it. That is the time to train a lot of good behaviors. 

I know of dogs that don't know "sit" that were raised off leash and are exceptionally well behaved off leash.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

karladupler said:


> That sounds...so scary and wrong from hunt to kill and my german shepherd is very tolerant i have only saw him once growling to another dog ....


Dogs are predators. Play is practicing "hunt to kill" at its basic level. Nothing to be scared of, you work with it. You have to understand that when your dog chases a dog that behavior is in that realm of the hunt, on that spectrum.... in that chain. Of course most dogs don't kill things they chase but the adrenalin is pointing them in that direction .... although most dogs would probably kill a rodent. Point is that you work with them where they are to bring out the best in them. You don't assume they are fur babies that love everything and are little humans. They are predators... that is just a fact.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> The dogs are off leash and are mostly raised off leash. It is natural for a puppy to stay close to you for the first few months. Take advantage of it. That is the time to train a lot of good behaviors.
> 
> I know of dogs that don't know "sit" that were raised off leash and are exceptionally well behaved off leash.


I don't have a puppy (or ever raised a puppy) but that's great advice for anyone who has the opportunity. I wish there were more like you and the dogs in your neighbourhood.
As the local forest rules states, Dogs On-Leash or Under Control.


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## Casto (Jun 18, 2016)

karladupler said:


> Totally guilty of having my dog off leash when I can HAHAHAHA find out that he does better off leash... pretty much he follows me we only do this on hiking places when we don't have people around, I am always watching when people comes towards us I just put his leash on... so far hating the fact that we live in a city and really far from ponds/lakes...can't say beach but in fact in the whole LA area there's only 2 dog beaches....MAYBE there's another one but i have only heard about 2 haha. Well my dogs needs lots of self control! We will work on that





islanddog said:


> I once saw a 'garage dog' that was like that. I always wonder if they are just a rare sensible dog, or did the owner do some serious boundary training?
> 
> ...but I do have to ask, when you say 'owners have control of their off leash dog', do you mean that they can call their dogs away/off from other dogs consistently and easilly? I've just never seen that kind of obedience in pet dogs either at the dog park or the forest. I'm actually very relieved to be in the 'sometimes off-leash' stage with Sonic, as I now can drop his long-line when faced with off leash dogs, or control him when I see on-leash dogs, but I'm a complete WEIRDO in my neck of the woods to the point that people still remember me and Dynamo and the stupid blue long-line (which I'm using again now) from fourteen years ago.
> As in, I remember you, and that german shepherd, you used to come to pond with a REALLY LONG LEASH...infamous, although leads to some nice conversations, I can tell I stick out like a sore thumb.


haha I have a long blue drop leash for my GSD pup that follows him everywhere. Handed down from my poodle who is off leash trained with a strong recall and a strong stay. She is off leash everywhere and sets a good example for Jupiter. ha here he is with his drag leash. Great training tool.

View attachment 375562


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Gunny said:


> We used to take our girl to the Dog Park also....
> 
> When I determined that it's not the best place to be we looked into alternate areas...
> 
> Any schools in your area? Usually good places to take your dog and sometime run into others for socialization . Soccer fields are also good places....HTH...:smile2:


Yes, I think finding a school play yard or soccer field will be what I need to do with my future pup. On a 50 foot lead. No unleashed dogs here, except for all the poor tick and disease ridden street dogs here (in Costa Rica).


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

maxtmill said:


> Yes, I think finding a school play yard or soccer field will be what I need to do with my future pup. On a 50 foot lead. No unleashed dogs here, except for all the poor tick and disease ridden street dogs here (in Costa Rica).


I thought you said on another thread that those street dogs were very well behaved.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Hm ... rather than going on yet "another" long tirade on the "evils" of "some Dog Parks" with "Some Dogs" ... I'll just post this:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

And point out two articles "Why Dog Parks are a Bad Idea" and "Three Dogs Who Should not be at a Dog Park." 

Not a fan myself, it's not one of my goals to "fix issues" with my dogs, caused by the inability of others to control there dogs.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Once our dog grew into the adolescent stage, the dog park became iffy. There was another GSD, that would constantly be a bully to her, the owner thought it was normal. There were some days our dog behaved like yours and I felt bad for bringing her. It is the prey drive. In general we have found that our dogs did not do well in fenced/enclosed dog parks. I don't know if its something to do about feeling closed in and not being able to escape. So now we try to find large off leash dog areas. Unfortunately these seem to be getting more difficult to find. Our county had an excellent place, but 8 years ago restricted dogs to leash only. We found that when our dogs could move forward, and have a place to walk there was less aggression when off leash. For us its either an hour drive to Carmel Valley or a little longer to south of SF. We try to go to parks really early and go off leash illegally if nobody is there or use the tennis court since it is enclosed.

My dog does well when she is regularly exposed to the same dogs, she gets to know them and then they can play well. You may want to try a social group - some are at meetup.com - a dog hiking group or maybe there is an only German Shepherd group, they would have the same play style. This has worked best for us, it would be better is we lived closer to the group but we do our best get together. Hope you find another fun place for your dog. It seems GSDs may just not do well in dog parks. When we go to these areas, the GSD owners are usually walking their dogs on leash, outside of these parks.


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## karladupler (Mar 22, 2016)

Gretchen said:


> Once our dog grew into the adolescent stage, the dog park became iffy. There was another GSD, that would constantly be a bully to her, the owner thought it was normal. There were some days our dog behaved like yours and I felt bad for bringing her. It is the prey drive. In general we have found that our dogs did not do well in fenced/enclosed dog parks. I don't know if its something to do about feeling closed in and not being able to escape. So now we try to find large off leash dog areas. Unfortunately these seem to be getting more difficult to find. Our county had an excellent place, but 8 years ago restricted dogs to leash only. We found that when our dogs could move forward, and have a place to walk there was less aggression when off leash. For us its either an hour drive to Carmel Valley or a little longer to south of SF. We try to go to parks really early and go off leash illegally if nobody is there or use the tennis court since it is enclosed.
> 
> My dog does well when she is regularly exposed to the same dogs, she gets to know them and then they can play well. You may want to try a social group - some are at meetup.com - a dog hiking group or maybe there is an only German Shepherd group, they would have the same play style. This has worked best for us, it would be better is we lived closer to the group but we do our best get together. Hope you find another fun place for your dog. It seems GSDs may just not do well in dog parks. When we go to these areas, the GSD owners are usually walking their dogs on leash, outside of these parks.


Dogs that are leashed are more "aggressive"....living that is so true, i did kinda of an experiment yesterday at the dog beach I took my long leash I'm still working on recall (my recall won'r work only if my dog is sniffing something...when they don't sniff something? Lol) and I noticed that we will bark if he's on leash....i dropped the leash couple of times the barking totally stopped...grabbed the leash he was barking i would say is the tension of been leashed... and another thing about closed/fenced places...totally true or my dog works like that his behavior at the beach is totally different from the dog park which is fenced...I guess he just needs self control and when the adolescent stage age ends?  A german shepherd owner saw me struggling and she walked towards me and my dog...and she told me "I can tell your dog is a teenager, do not worry they are not impossible! Just keep your training when he grow up a lil bit more he will be an angel" I was laughing but again my dog is 19 months old....when his teenager stage is going to end?! Hahaha :laugh2: Plus i think he still...processing the fact that he was on a shelter my doggie only has 5 months living with me and my husband


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