# Some IPO questions



## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Bear with me here... I'm a newbie. 

I am interested in IPO BUT I'm about to get started in herding... I cannot do both at the same time because of the sheer cost of both(out here herding training is $40 a lesson and that's group classes, private training is more) plus the time commitment, I'm already losing my weekends to herding. I blame my herding trainer, she said I should get my pup involved in Schutz/IPO too. 

So questions...

I know most people start IPO training early, if I train in herding and get some titles then stop to try IPO will it be too late if he's over 1-2 years old?

He is NOT a full WL dog, he is a SL/WL cross and I've seen several people here say how difficult a time they have with these dogs in IPO. What type of drive do they need to do this? My dog has a pretty decent prey drive(though not so high that I worry about him killing my cats, he did try to get one of my rabbits though). He loves tug and goes nuts for the flirt pole but other then Those two things his toy drive is pretty low. His pedigree if you're curious, Zephyr's flying Ollie vom Grunenfeld

Is it possible to do an evaluation at a club without joining or starting training or does that vary from place to place?

Anything else you might want to add? 

I don't know if this matters at all but I'll just post my video of his herding instinct test if you want to see him in action. He really seemed to love being in with the sheep(that video did not show the whole test only his first two times in with them), never seen him so focused and right now I'd rather do something he really enjoys then what I want. But anyways, thank you for any input you might have!


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

I think you can train them at any age, I read on here about a dog who didnt get his SchH1 until he was almost 10. Not sure what makes a good IPO dog. Does he have a lot of SchH/IPO titled dogs in his pedigree? Some things I noticed about Berlin..is his prey drive, eagerness to learn, when I take him outside, he 'tracks' with his nose down the whole time (bear with me here, im a newbie too, but I believe I read in IPO they want the dog to track with their noses down and NOT sniff the air), and his intensity with 'tug'. Read up on it, as I have done hours of research on IPO and the BH and im *still* very lost. hahah. Also, go check out a club and talk with the people there. 

Im sure others will chime in, but I posted two threads about IPO and got many good responses, might be worth it to check those out too.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Thanks, yeah I've been reading over yours too and a few other threads... I just haven't seen anybody here(not saying there isn't just haven't come across it) that didn't start almost right away.

His nose is on the ground A LOT, in fact in his obedience class yesterday I was having a hard time getting him to focus on me because his nose was always on the ground(we were training in a park).


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

This thread is informative on what 'makes a good IPO' dog
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/230138-describe-ideal-dog-ipo.html
As far as your questions, yes, have him eval'd and the drives should be balanced. Have fun with herding, and if you still want to try IPO when he's mature, he should be fine, but there are exercises that take time to teach. I'd begin tracking now(no cost in that!) and maybe have someone work with you on the retrieves. Of course obedience is ongoing, so if you have a good foundation of obedience, it should carry over to any venue no problem. Sometimes putting too much ob is the issue, dog becomes inhibited and looks to the handler for everything. Confidence is key.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

For me somewhere between 12 and 18 months is the perfect time to begin training for IPO (all phases).


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I started training my male at more than 3 years of age. SL I've had the most trouble getting to engage with intensity, and regripping/bite quality. Both are more just a factor of the lines than the age


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The reason people start early is that they compete, they do it to a very high level. If you're going to do it just for fun, no problems starting later. You're biggest problem is always going to be cost and time. You might end up falling in love with herding and keep doing that. I'm not sure if you've ever gone to a Schutzhund club to watch training, or a trial to see it in action, but you should really take a look at that before you get all excited about something you've only read about in books or online.

I guess in my opinion...its awesome to have a goal of doing something 2 years from now...but who knows where you'll be 2 years from now and if you'll even have time for Schutzhund.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

martemchik said:


> The reason people start early is that they compete, they do it to a very high level. If you're going to do it just for fun, no problems starting later.


I compete (well I like to think I do more than dabble for fun), I have titled more than a few dogs; I have shown at the national level and, for me, a bit older (12-18 months) is the ideal time to start.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Zahnburg said:


> I compete (well I like to think I do more than dabble for fun), I have titled more than a few dogs; I have shown at the national level and, for me, a bit older (12-18 months) is the ideal time to start.


Yeah, I'm competing with my bitch and we started at ~1.5 years


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'm _trying_ to compete and started taking my dog to training at 10 weeks...he'll be four in a couple days and we still haven't trialed for the 1. This is his year


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Carriesue said:


> Thanks, yeah I've been reading over yours too and a few other threads... I just haven't seen anybody here(not saying there isn't just haven't come across it) that didn't start almost right away.
> 
> His nose is on the ground A LOT, in fact in his obedience class yesterday I was having a hard time getting him to focus on me because his nose was always on the ground(we were training in a park).


You can get him evaluated, you just have to find a place to do it. This can be another expensive and time consuming sport. Have you considered doing nosework with him? They have another sport called treibball, that could be good instead of herding, if its just for fun


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Awesome, thanks for all the responses! I do need to get out to a club and check things out and I know it could be a long way off but I just wanted to make sure that it was ok to start later before I start doing more research, etc.

I am a pretty competitive person so I could see herding and IPO completely sucking me in but the goal here really is just to have fun with my dog and have my own thing I do outside everything else(married life) on my own. I honestly have no idea if he'd have the drive for it but I will get him evaluated at some point too, I know his pedigree is not the most impressive but he does have a fair amount of schutz/IPO dogs in his pedigree so we shall see.

I've read about about treiball llombardo, problem is around distractions he practically has no ball drive so I have no idea if this would appeal to him at all... I do know now though that he LOVES his sheepies lol so I don't mind shelling out a bit more money for something he enjoys. Plus I like getting to work with and be around other animals even if I come home smelling like a barn.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I'm _trying_ to compete and started taking my dog to training at 10 weeks...he'll be four in a couple days and we still haven't trialed for the 1. This is his year


Good Luck! Hope to see some updates and pictures if you trial.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

martemchik said:


> The reason people start early is that they compete, they do it to a very high level. If you're going to do it just for fun, no problems starting later. You're biggest problem is always going to be cost and time. You might end up falling in love with herding and keep doing that. I'm not sure if you've ever gone to a Schutzhund club to watch training, or a trial to see it in action, but you should really take a look at that before you get all excited about something you've only read about in books or online.
> 
> I guess in my opinion...its awesome to have a goal of doing something 2 years from now...but who knows where you'll be 2 years from now and if you'll even have time for Schutzhund.



The last few dogs that Gabor trained, titled and competed with, he did minimal foundation work and traveling with and then started training at 2 for serious work. Nationals here and in Europe and World teams for the dogs. 

If it is there, it will come out.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> I'm _trying_ to compete and started taking my dog to training at 10 weeks...he'll be four in a couple days and we still haven't trialed for the 1. This is his year


What would you say is the delay? Training time? Particular issue your battling?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

You already know that my Aiden is a SL/WL cross and he isn't the greatest dog for IPO, but I don't have a single regret about training with him at all. He got his IPO1 and failed the IPO2 twice, but it's really all been worth it for me. I just think that we have a bond on a much different level than we would if we never would have trained. 

Plus now I'm addicted and I'm ready to train and compete for real with my next WL puppy who will be bred to do it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

hunterisgreat said:


> What would you say is the delay? Training time? Particular issue your battling?


Bopping around too much without consistency. For the past year we've had to polish and fix things. We never were able to train on an actual trial field, so going to other clubs fields to train was challenging.
I wish I'd been able to use a trail field just to run blinds over and over. 
The thing is, I've gone to training every week forever, but many times we were just going through the motions without making progress. Same ol' same ol'. 
Our group folded a year ago.
I switched to another group~ any progress I thought I made....it was clear that we had much to work on. So all last Summer, we worked on polishing up the control and other stuff. 
In this area, seasons of trialing are shorter, the trials are clustered spring and fall and then nothing. Many will fill up quick with club members and because I'm not with an affiliated club, have to trial on as a guest. So my hope is to trial this spring and hopefully get the 2 and 3 in later summer/early fall.
I have a good dog, he has a crappy handler.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

GatorDog said:


> You already know that my Aiden is a SL/WL cross and he isn't the greatest dog for IPO, but I don't have a single regret about training with him at all. He got his IPO1 and failed the IPO2 twice, but it's really all been worth it for me. I just think that we have a bond on a much different level than we would if we never would have trained.
> 
> Plus now I'm addicted and I'm ready to train and compete for real with my next WL puppy who will be bred to do it.


What is happening at IPO2? Still training with the dog or given up?


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Bopping around too much without consistency. For the past year we've had to polish and fix things. We never were able to train on an actual trial field, so going to other clubs fields to train was challenging.
> I wish I'd been able to use a trail field just to run blinds over and over.
> The thing is, I've gone to training every week forever, but many times we were just going through the motions without making progress. Same ol' same ol'.
> Our group folded a year ago.
> ...


Handling is almost always the issue lol. I struggled for 6 months with jäger bc of a handling issue. When we fixed my handling progress flew forward. 

For what it's worth I rarely actually run all the blinds. I'll share my method if you wish


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Yes guys each person is different, depending on how quickly you get into it and how much time you put into the training, it's not the worst thing to start at a later age. It also depends on your goals. The people that plan on breeding their dogs, generally start early so that they can get a few litters out of a bitch by the time she's 6-7. It also depends on how quickly the dog progresses. If you have the dog, you start at 2 and everything works out, you might be able to have IPO3 by 4, but with that same dog you might've been able to start at 8 weeks and have IPO3 by 2.5 or 3 years old.

It's the same with all dog sports...the younger you start...the more likely your dog will be successful at a younger age. I started training my dog for obedience later than people at my club that knew what they were doing. Although my dog has more drive, and is more willing, since I didn't know what I was doing (or what my goals would be) until much later, my dog is behind where those dogs are. One club member has a bitch at 2.5 going for her UD. I'm still working at training for my CDX. If I had started at 8 weeks old with the goal of UDX (I had no idea what obedience titles were when I got my dog), I would probably be at a UD by now, as it stands I'm at a CD. For someone as competitive as me, this is a difficult thing for me to get over, knowing that its my fault my dog is as behind as he is.

That is all I was trying to say with my "start young" comment. Nothing against those of you who start later, but its just my opinion that the earlier you start the more chance you have for success.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

> It's the same with all dog sports...the younger you start...the more likely your dog will be successful at a younger age


IPO is not the same as other dog sports. There is a protection phase that requires a level of maturity in the dog. The idea that you start early and are done sooner is far too simplistic, since there are different types of dogs. While the handler's ambition plays into it, I have seen that same ambition and hurry up attitude, almost completely ruin dogs in SchH.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My first schutzhund was 2.5 when she started protection. She had a CD and BH so I obviously had done obedience and we had tracked. I was not training with a club at the time so waited. She still made SchH3 though I ended up retiring her after the 3 due to back issues. There were a couple of things that maybe took longer, but not sure if they were just her or her age (took awhile to get her to come through the helper on the courage test). 

Deja didn't start any formal protection work until she was around 18 months. She wasn't ready. Elena I did a little here and there, but nothing formal until about a month ago. She is 21 months. 

There is no hurry.


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