# Resource guarding Non-GSD



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

I adopted a Jack Russell Terrier 2 months ago. I have had one before. She was from a puppy though. This guy is approx. 2 yrs. old. 

He gets things he is not suppose to have, tissue, paper towels, my human kids toys, etc. I am doing my best to keep these things from him. 

When you try to take them away he goes all "cujo". I just ignore it. But it is getting worse instead of better. I keep thinking....is this dog really going to bite me? He went for my face today. I worry about my kids. He does this to my 3 dogs too. 

He is also like this when he sleeps. If you touch him. 

He has a HUGE prey drive. He is neutered. 

How do I make this better? Will this get better? 

Thank you for your help.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

I would practice trading him higher value items for the lower value items he has - in other words, when he gives up what he has, he gets a reward. This will take a lot of work though.

Some dogs have a startle erflex when you wake them - it could be that is the situation with him.

Have you taken him to a training class?


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

No I have not. 

This is for sure what I need to do with all four of my dogs. 

I have been lucky that there has not been any other major problems other than this. 

I needed to have the first dog well trained BEFORE I brought in more dogs. 

I have read many things about training. BUT I know I need to get him and Shadow to a training class. 

There maybe some offered soon through Shadow's rescue. 

Would a treat be something to trade??


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Daisy1986
> 
> Would a treat be something to trade??


If he likes treats then YES. ANYTHING that he likes better than what he has will work. Though be warned, he might figure out that stealing "stuff" he isn't supposed to have will get him a treat.

Siren isn't agressive when she gets ahold of something she shouldn't, she thinks it is a big game and wants me to chase her. I have taught her what "trade" means. If she gets something I don't want her to have, I just say "TRADE" and she spits out what ever she has and comes running for a treat. Then I am able to get whatever she had in the first place.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

You know, now that you explain it like that. 

I remember getting the trade advice about Shadow. Not sure if it was you Tracy. 

Shadow was eating lava rocks outside. 

I should have thought of that with Bruno. He puts down his jaws on a piece of paper and you cannot pry it open. 

My DH was doing this today, (wrestling to get something out of his mouth), I said wait let me try something...Bruno saw me open the treat cabnet and dropped it,









You are right though JRT's are smart, I will watch him picking up the concept. Next thing you know he will be bringing me paper.....


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ddI would practice trading him higher value items for the lower value items he has - in other words, when he gives up what he has, he gets a reward. This will take a lot of work though.
> 
> Some dogs have a startle erflex when you wake them - it could be that is the situation with him.
> 
> Have you taken him to a training class?


I will have to look up this erflex, never heard of it.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

What a ninny I am , that is a type O, isnt it???

You just meant reflex. I actually goggled erflex??









I need to get off the computer for a while!


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Daisy1986What a ninny I am , that is a type O, isnt it???
> 
> You just meant reflex. I actually goggled erflex??
> 
> ...











oh Kelly...you crack me up!!!


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

I just PM'd you Steph, do not know if you are still on here. 


Shadow bit into Bruno. They were fighting. At night Bruno is done, Shadow always wants to play. He does it to my other two dogs too. He bites a little to hard. Bruno got mad, he laid into Shadow. Then they went at it. 

Shadow has NEVER done anything like this. He only started growling when Bruno got here. 

I will keep a close eye on the wound, I may have to take him to the vet in the morning. I was worried in went into his lung, it is right between his rib bones. Looks like just skin in torn, a small hole, it is still kinda ozzing blood.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Now what do I do?


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Took Bruno to the vet today. 

He has air pockets around the wound. The vet thinks the chest wall resealed. 

He is on Baytril and Ace to keep him calm. He said I could give him Rimadyl, but I am not sure if I need too. He seems to be fine. 

I am going to keep a close eye on him.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

You can give him Arnica for the pain. Do you have that calendula/hypericum cream I'm always pushing? That will help the wounds heal. But you need to be very, very careful that the wound does not get septic. Use a hot compress on it to leach out the pus/blood several times a day. 

As for your original aggression question: You need to keep the JRT and Shadow separate from now on. You've got to get a handle on both of their issues separately. The next time the JRT could be killed or you could be seriously injured so you need to ensure that the next time does not happen. 

I would be doing serious training with the JRT once he heals. There are some great books on aggression (and general training) over at dogwise.com


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

You have to start doing NILIF with all your dogs and develop a leadership pattern. It will require work and effort to manage the situation. It can happen again if you are not very careful.
Managing a dog-pack is a job.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowYou can give him Arnica for the pain. Do you have that calendula/hypericum cream I'm always pushing? That will help the wounds heal. But you need to be very, very careful that the wound does not get septic. Use a hot compress on it to leach out the pus/blood several times a day.
> 
> As for your original aggression question: You need to keep the JRT and Shadow separate from now on. You've got to get a handle on both of their issues separately. The next time the JRT could be killed or you could be seriously injured so you need to ensure that the next time does not happen.
> 
> I would be doing serious training with the JRT once he heals. There are some great books on aggression (and general training) over at dogwise.com


I do not know what Arnica is. I will have to look it up. 

Do not have the cream either. Vet said neosporin. 

I will do the hot compress, but he is very aggressive about me messing with the wound. 

Separate from now on?? Really? Shadow is freaked today because he cannot play with his friend. 

I think it is just a night time thing with Bruno, he was done for the day. 

You are right though. I am REALLY lucky Shadow did not kill him. 

I am still holding my breath that this wound heals.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Lucky you, you have a cujo in a small package. I would treat him as you would an aggressive GSD -- no allowances for size.

When you say that Shadow always wants "to play", I might reevaluate that behavior. Is it play, or is it bossiness? 

Bruno didn't growl until Shadow came along. Bruno is signaling that something isn't right in his dog world, and you need to pick up on those signals. My guess is that Shadow does not respect the growls? You need to back those up.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDYou have to start doing NILIF with all your dogs and develop a leadership pattern. It will require work and effort to manage the situation. It can happen again if you are not very careful.
> Managing a dog-pack is a job.


You are correct. Advice I will follow. They do respect me, so I thought, not enough I guess. My DH more, who was not home. 

I am learning about this pack thing, most dogs I have ever owned at once. 

THEY need more exercise too. I fell and hurt my back and it is like 13 degrees here, so I have not been walking and exerciseing them like I should. MY BAD, that is why Shadow was so wound up!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Originally Posted By: Daisy1986I do not know what Arnica is. I will have to look it up.
> 
> Separate from now on?? Really? Shadow is freaked today because he cannot play with his friend.


http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=903725&page=1#Post903725

Arnica is a homeopathic remedy, available at better health food stores, it comes in little pellets. When I was bit by a Great Dane at training, I used both Arnica and Ledum.

Do you have a crate for Shadow?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Yes, Ledum too. 

You need to muzzle the JRT so that you can properly care for the wound. And he needs a crate or a gated off room where he can be by himself. 

Take Shadow outside and use a tennis racket or a chuck it and throw the ball for him. You can also do games with him in the house and I really recommend doing lots of short training sessions, gradually making them harder. This will tire him out! If he gets along with the other 2 dogs you can do it as a contest. The winner gets the treat!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

And with a terrier, you could wrap a favorite ball in a blanket and have them "find it" -- my terrier mix could do that for hours. Working his brain is often an important part of "exercise".


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Yes, absolutely. I was just thinking that since Bruno is hurt he will have to be kept calm until his wound heals. 

There are lots of ways to tire a dog out. Here are some tips: http://www.wpr.org/pets/listen.cfm

Listen to the 12/13 show as she gives a bunch of tips for keeping your dogs busy and happy.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI think Bruno is the aggressive one? Bruno is the JRT. Shadow is the gsd. And I think Bruno is getting more comfortable in his home and deciding when and where he can call the shots. Shadow does not respect him. There is no true alpha so you have chaos. YOU need to step into that roll immediately. It needs to be doggie boot camp around there. NILIF every second of the day. That does not mean being mean but it does mean being a strong, clear and fair leader and indicating to them exactly what you expect of them.


I'm reading it differently -- Bruno was the GSD that bit, but I think Shadow is the aggressor? Tough to tell. Daisy, have I got this wrong?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Okay, I'm no longer confused.....Bruno ***is*** the JRT, and Shadow the GSD. Let me go back and reread to make sure I read the rest right too.

ETA: okay, I'm okay, just the name thing got me.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTLucky you, you have a cujo in a small package. I would treat him as you would an aggressive GSD -- no allowances for size.
> 
> When you say that Bruno always wants "to play", I might reevaluate that behavior. Is it play, or is it bossiness?
> 
> Shadow didn't growl until Burno came along. Shadow is signaling that something isn't right in his dog world, and you need to pick up on those signals. My guess is that Bruno does not respect the growls? You need to back those up.


REposted with the correct names!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

It was that CANDY BAR you ate for breakfast, Lisa. It has made you hyper and unable to concentrate or even read correctly.









For now, you really need to keep Bruno isolated from the rest of the pack while you repair the damage and get the pack back under your control. 

Patricia McConnell has a neat little booklet called "Feeling Outnumbered" that is for people with multi-dog households. You can get it used here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1891767062/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Sorry this is so confusing. I maybe should not have double posted. I was just not getting much response in the aggression section before. 

SHADOW the GSD always wants to play. With all the dogs. He is only 15 months. We have had him since March. He had NO training when I got him from the rescue. Could barely walk around the house without freaking out. He has come a long way. 

Bruno (around 2 yrs old) will play with Shadow during the day, all day, but at night he is ready to chill. Shadow popped him with his paw and want to play. Bruno growled. Shadow kept it up. I think Bruno bit him, so Shadow lost it. There had been exchanges like this before. 
It just never went to that level. 
From what you guys are saying. Bruno is trying to run Shadow, and Shadow does not respect him. I need to handle the situations. 

Yes I have crates. I will keep them separate, and Bruno calm. 

They are SO cute. It is hard to believe this happened. 









But now hind site it 20/20 I think Bruno was trying to push Shadow out of that bed!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

BWM, you are absolutely right, because I got the whole thing mixed up. That darn Milky Way Bar







I thought it was the classic annoying bossy terrier, and it is different after reading this last clarification. I'm not sure if it is the bossy Bruno thing now. In fact, it just looks like an unstructured pack where they don't yet know all the rules.

Okay Kelly, the bad part is that you let it escalate by not acting when you saw the previous exchanges. The good part is that is that this is manageable, since part of this is true human pack leader error.

Tonight you will probably get more feedback from more folks that work with this a lot more than I do. The main focus is to keep Bruno calm and isolated while he mends, and then you will have to control the access that these dogs have to each other until they learn the rules. This will force you to "learn dog" a little more.

P.S. they are *very* cute


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

How many dogs do you have now, Kelly?

Bruno, 2 yr old, M JRT
Bella, 4 yr old, F beagle 
Shadow, M GSD, 15 months

Any others?

I'm just trying to get my brain around the composition of your pack. 

As the others said, NILIF. Your JRT is a GSD in a small package, plus a Rott and the energy of a slighly crazed lab too. So we have to know what we're dealing with. You can't work with Bruno the way you work with Shadow and expect the same results. 

There's something about little dogs that are bred to hunt -- they just get all focusy, but they're not particularly interested in us (compared to our velcro dog GSDs) most of the time. My 7 month old beagle runs with Camper, seven of her steps for every one of his. And it takes that much to wear her out. And her brain is always going too. It goes in a different way than a GSD (who is busy writing up plans for the remodel on the house), but it's going. 

I have a book recommendation: _When Pigs Fly -- Training Success With Impossible Dogs _ by Jane Killion (Dogwise). 

Patricia McConnell has a itty bitty book called _How to be the Leader of the Pack and Have Your Dog Love You for It _. You can read it in about 1/2 hour, but it's worth triple its weight in gold. Every word is a gem. 

First, let's keep the dogs separate. Crates. Baby gates. Doors, if necessary. If they're miserable and miss their buddies, that's fine. In fact, that's good. It will make it easier to reintroduce them later. But for now, you'll have two packs -- Bella and Bruno and Bella and Shadow. They play separately. And everyone trains separately to ensure they're getting the training they need. 

Your terrier (and your beagle) don't train like a GSD. Your GSD is a working dog. Give him work he likes to do, and he'll enjoy it. In fact, he'll do it on his own without a lot of supervision if he can (I find Camper playing soccer on his own, and sometimes going through weavepoles when I'm not outside). 

My beagles (and my terrier mixes I had), they really don't care much about "working" and they really don't care about "pleasing" me. They weren't bred to please me. They were bred to hunt independently. If there's no prey, then they do what they want. So I have to be interesting, and I have to make them think that what they're doing is their idea. Once they're doing it, if they like it though, then they'll pursue it with the tenacity of a ratter chasing a rodent down a hole. 

First step. FOOD. Find food (several kinds) that your dog likes. Since he's often running away from you, find smelly food. Cheeses are good. I've found that Hillshire farms Yard o Beef (summer sausage) is Really good (Sams Club and Costco carry it this time of year). Put it under the nose and walk backward saying "come" so that your dog learns to walk TO you. (yes, we start at that basic of a level with these kids). 

Lure for everything at first. I am the Keeper of the Food (therefore the boss). Then, I introduce in Prey-type toys. I like Skineez http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pr...u=0033651000SKU that squeak, flop around a lot, and you can play tug with. They seem to satisfy prey drive nicely. 

Anytime someone takes stuff she shouldn't have, I squeak a toy or say "snack" and the culprit (with the offending item) come running over. She has to "Give" the item to receive the treat. 

Meanwhile, I'm training everything I can possibly think of -- basic commands and TRICKS! these kids specialize in tricks! Why? Because they have so much energy. So while I'm making dinner, I shout out commands and they perform them. I toss a treat after every few, and we keep going. The energy that would be wasted on getting into trouble (or picking fights with each other) is instead spent executing commands and performing tricks. 

And they stick around the kitchen because there's a paycheck.

Like Lisa, we play Find It a lot. Both dogs have their own toys they have to find. 

Any time I can't directly supervise, I crate or tether. 

And everyone gets a minimum of TWO HOURS of CARDIO activity a day. Not walks. Cardio -- running, chasing, playing soccer, zooming, fetching. 

And we take classes. We're big on classes in my house. It exposes the dogs to other dogs (so they make "friends" other than their packmates); it gets them out of the house and away from each other. And we're learning and using our brains. It's not inexpensive (and we're not wealthy people), but it's probably the best investment we make. 

A lot of people say that the best thing for a dog's brain is to play with another dog. But I do think that familiarity can breed contempt if you're locked up in the house all day (which happens a lot in the winter) with the same pack mates. So we need to break up the schedule, get everyone separated, running around a lot, out of the house separately, and learning new stuff. 

Finally, one final thought, Shadow is an adolescent. So he's going through a weird period. He really does need absolute consistency. Bruno may likely push his buttons to insist that HE is the adult male in the pack. YOU need to assert to everyone that you're the alpha. I don't let wrestling around get to an elevated level, especially inside, where there's not a lot of room to escape and/or run to burn off that excess energy. 

Kelly, there are days when I stand in the living room, having put everyone in Down Stays, and I announce to them "I have opposable thumbs. I know how to drive the car. I have credit cards. I buy the food. Your dad and I pay the mortgage. Until ANY of this changes, I and I alone am in charge. GOT IT?" 

Yes, once you go from two dogs to a pack, life gets crazy. It helps to remind yourself and your underlings that you're in charge. 








You're not alone.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

3k9, I think there are 4 - here's the other one, from the health post:



> Originally Posted By: Daisy1986... My Golden is pack leader, besides us, Lady my golden is the one who broke the fight up.


and the others:

Bruno, 2 yr old, M JRT
Bella, 4 yr old, F beagle 
Shadow, M GSD, 15 months


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom....Kelly, there are days when I stand in the living room, having put everyone in Down Stays, and I announce to them "I have opposable thumbs. I know how to drive the car. I have credit cards. I buy the food. Your dad and I pay the mortgage. Until ANY of this changes, I and I alone am in charge. GOT IT?"


Too funny. I have done something similar, but never with the flair that you describe









With just two, I do control when they play, and to some degree how they play, and backyard access. There are only certain times when they are in the yard together, because if they play, the GSD gets too wound up and acts inappropriately. They do get to play a bit inside. Max's 75 lbs versus Indy's lean 33 lbs is tough to control, since Max doesn't do a great job on his own. It always starts out right, but left unchecked, it typically ends badly, with Indy get rolled, or slammed, or something equally painful to her. But they are who they are, and I have not been able to change their play styles, so I just have to control what I can.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Yes I have four. Lady 8 yrs old, she has been with me for 6 yrs. she is the Golden Retriver mix. She disaplines all the time. For barking at the fence, she gets on Bruno if he barks at me vaccuming (but I am stopping him myself now), ...I know I need to be the one in charge.










Thanks for all your suggestions 3K9 Mom and everyone. 

I need to find classes. Take Bruno first? Or Bruno one then Shadow another in the same wk. 

I have gotten in over my head. Deep breath, I can do this, seriously right now I think my 5 and 6 yr old boys (human) are attempting to take their sled down the stairs.









Gotta go!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

What a good looking pack!!!!

Do you have a trainer that you know, or will you be looking for one?

You might need to have the trainer evaluate both Bruno and Shadow and make a judgment that way. Sometimes seeing them in person, you get a different idea than from the descriptions in words.

You can do this. Remember, the crates are as much for your mental health as it is for theirs. Be sure to use them if you need a time out too!

The two things I might start working on would be observation -- watch carefully how your dogs are interacting, communicating, and responding to each other. Who is ignoring what signals, body posturing, etc. The other thing would be that all things lead through you -- you will control access, play, etc. Working out the finer details of how much to control what and for which dog, is a much more difficult task.

Is Lady showing any increased signs of stress, trying to keep everyone in line, or does she seem to handle it fine?

LOL, so how are your stairs


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Four dogs, four classes a week? LOL. Ok, that's what I do, but you have a real life. 

Lady's a golden spaniel mix, isn't she? (A "spolden"







) She's lovely. Zamboni (my beagle/spaniel) likes to step in as the alpha. And I have to remind her that she can be alpha, but I'm The Boss, so I scoot her away and I do my job. 

My training facility actually has a class for terriers. (My trainer has rescued rat terriers). I wonder if you might be able to find one too? 

One of the reasons you have "gotten in over your head" is because of the diversity of your group. It is easier to have 4 GSDs or 4 terriers, or 4 beagles. They all tend to process information,think, learn in somewhat the same way. With your kids, you have to code switch back and forth. My trainer just laughs at me with my beagles and my GSD. "WHY?" she asks. "WHY would anyone with GSDs have beagles? They're completely different dogs!" And I laugh at her with her rat terriers and tell her that she couldn't pay me to take one of them. 

(And then we both agree that neither of us would own a lab.)

So, you have a population issue (four dogs) and a diversity issue. I think you would do well to have a very reputable trainer on your side that you can talk to as you go through classes together Maybe you even get a private lesson or two and have the trainer come to your house and show you how to set up zones for your dogs, and how to physically manage them. These don't have to be the same person, and I've found I get benefit from exposing myself to more than one trainer, as long as they're both highly regarded trainers who use basically the same techniques. 

In the meantime, there are some other "techniques" you might try.
For example, don't use your hands when you manage your dogs(dogs PLAY with their forepaws, so when you push your dogs with your hands, it looks like you're playing with them). Use your body. Push, block, step in between. Push them where they need to go with your legs or feet. 

Don't let them get underfoot (they're taking up your personal space which is disrespectful. The leader gets a lot of space). You aren't kicking them, especially the little ones. You're moving them along (imagine dribbling a soccer ball with your foot). Your GSD should be giving you space too. Use your thighs and hips to scoot him out of your way. No velcro dogs here! Absolutely no walking between your legs (which a lot of GSDs do, but it's NOT cute. It's moving into your space). No leaning dogs when you sit down. Lean back into the dog (take his personal space) until they back off. 

When you're sitting down and watching tv, if a dog comes over and jumps up to be petted, or puts his head in your lap, that's called demanding attention (and the dog is taking your space again). The Boss (you) gives attention when she wants to, not when it's demanded. Refuse to give attention when demanded. Put the dog into a down instead. Wait a while, then tell the dog to go get a toy, or have her do some sits and downs. THEN give her attention that she has EARNED. 

No dogs on furniture. Once you get everything completely under control and it stays under control for a long time, you can welcome them back on furniture on your terms -- you invite them up; they get off when you tell them to. But for now, all elevated spots belong to the humans only. That puts all dogs on the same level. 

You can either decide that every dog has his own bed and his own crate (in which case no one gets to be on the other dogs' bed or in the other dogs crate) or that everyone has to share. Decide now and that's the rule. If everyone gets his own place to hang out, it's YOUR job to enforce the rule that Bruno can't be on Shadow's bed -- it's not Shadow's job. And it's not Lady's job to enforce that Bella shouldn't be on her bed. Consistency. Whatever you decide, that's the rule and it's up to you and the other humans to back it up. 

Dogs get fed and snacked in order of their arrival to the house. It's easier that way. They know what to expect. I get fed before Bella and after Lady every time, so I don't need to worry that someone is getting a snack that I won't. 

That's a few more things I'd do, just to start. Some of these sound a little draconian. If they do, it's because the kids have been running the house. Once you manage the flow of your house more, they'll give you space AND they'll give each other more space. They'll snuggle with each other when they want to, but when someone goes on his bed or in his crate, the others will take that as a sign that he wants downtime, to be left alone. My puppy learned that lesson within her first few weeks here. Your adults will pick it up quickly, once you start to insist on it for yourself and for the others. 

(ALL humans have to follow the rules you set out, BTW. Rules about demanding attention, order that the dogs get fed, no dogs on furniture, etc )

I do think a couple private lessons would be money incredibly well spent. 

You'll get it. You're just juggling a lot of balls. But looking at that picture of those sweet pups, I have no doubt you'll get it.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTBWM, you are absolutely right, because I got the whole thing mixed up. That darn Milky Way Bar
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lots of info in this whole thread I will re read all of it again. After dinner! 

This is exactly it though Lisa's post. 

Then all the advice from 3K9Mom I need to apply. 

Thanks!! 

(My stairs are fine btw. I got up there as my second boy was posed at the top to take his turn down! He was upset that he did not get his turn!!)









Gotta go finish dinner. Bruno is crated, has not been 12 hrs but the ace has worn off.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
> As the others said, NILIF. Your JRT is a GSD in a small package, plus a Rott and the energy of a slighly crazed lab too. So we have to know what we're dealing with. You can't work with Bruno the way you work with Shadow and expect the same results.
> 
> There's something about little dogs that are bred to hunt -- they just get all focusy, but they're not particularly interested in us (compared to our velcro dog GSDs) most of the time.
> ...



All of this good advice (tried to shorten requote to shorten post). Will have to look for the books. 

Exactly agree with the explaination of JRT's. He is a TRUE JRT!









He wants that squirrel!! He gets all squealey and crazy! It has calmed a little since he has been with us. HE was peeing by the window. 

Sometimes I wonder if he was not trained as an earth dog or some sort of JRT sport.







He can be intense. 

Very interesting thread on the floppy toys. We have a few on accident, the stuffing is out. He loves those, he will also de-stuff them himself if they have stuffing. 

I talked to my DH about the classes. Shadow's rescue is supposed to be offering some for free at our local Pete and Mac's. I will be looking into those. 

My DH is very good about all of this. HE IS THE grand daddy pack leader. With the kids too. He makes the dogs work for everything. 

He whisles and they come running like their butts are on fire! 

I am the nuturer, the softy, but I am home the most...I will change.


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTWhat a good looking pack!!!!
> 
> Do you have a trainer that you know, or will you be looking for one?
> 
> ...


Yes, Lady is stressed. Bella too. 

Lady got on to Bella once after we picked her up on the hwy. She was playing with me youngest and Lady did not trust her yet and she got in between. OR she gets on to her for barking out in the yard. That is about it. 

Shadow, hardly never. Maybe for barking. 

Bruno has worked Lady's butt off. I try to do as much as possible, but Lady senses more than I do....She does not trust him







. Bella is slowly coming around...


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

No dogs on the furniture will be hard.









Yes Lady is a Spaniel/Golden mix. Very few people see that. She looks so much like a Golden. 

That is what they told me at the shelter anyway. We were there looking for another JRT. My DH said did you see that pretty girl? I said no stopped turned around, opened her cage, knelt down she came to me and put her head on my shoulder. That was that....









EVERYONE who meets her falls instantly in love. 

That is what makes me not want to give up on Bruno. They end up good dogs, you gotta do the work that someone else did not. 

Shadow was a NUT when he came here at 6 months. I still have more work to do (obivously). But he is a gem!! He is very sweet. 

I am passonite about this. So it a labor of love. I love dogs, I am interested in training and everything about them. I can do this. 

I just do not want my boys to suffer. BUT if I do not get these dogs under control, they may be the next to get bit. 

My son was frustrated today, he is six, he said maybe we should take Bruno back to the shelter, he is teaching Shadow bad things. 

I said no, we will fix Bruno, we take dogs out (No more dogs, now







I am not a hoarder), not put them in. 

He said we rescued them.







I think my kids get it. They may grow up and never have dogs, but they get me.


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Re-read this ^^ post. 

When rules are hard (like taking the dogs off the furniture) or refusing to pet that sweet head that just walked up and demanded (you say "asked; I say "demanded") to be petted, you tell yourself, "We rescued them, and with that comes responsibility." But what you really did is you made them part of your family. 

Your children have rules. You say "no" to your children when it would be so much easier to say "yes." You see children at the grocery store and you think, these parents need to have boundaries with their children.

Love and families is about having boundaries. That's all I'm telling you. You don't HAVE To enact the same exact rules I do. Those are just the ones that work for me and that trainers I respect suggest. Happy families have boundaries.

Your children will love dogs; they will almost certainly grow up to have dogs. They will learn from watching you go through this difficulty that we don't give up on our dogs; that we can train our dogs and that dogs are happiest when they are treated as dogs (not furry little people) and dogs, as rule, thrive in packs with hierarchies and boundaries.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Buy that Patricia McConnel pamphlet I linked to above. It gives you all of this advice and a lot of details on how to have a peaceful household.


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

I understand what you are saying K9Mom. 

Thanks Ruth, I have a lot of reading and work to do! 

Thanks again for everyone's advice and support. 

I still have to get into outside trainging classes and help. But I am separateing Shadow and Bruno more. Not always, but mostly. 

They do not go outside together right now. 

I have to watch Bruno with Lady, he is posturing around her. He has mounted her before. He rubs himself up against her. I think he is challanging her. I put a stop to it. 

Mostly, I am just staying on top of it all. I am hearing your words in my head. 

Also my husband took Shadow jogging this morning. Even though it is 22 degrees here!!









I am making them sit for everything. Their food, to go outside.....

They all sleep in their dog beds at night. Bruno was sleeping with me a little..







Last night he slept in his canvas kennel, at 6:30 AM, that is when he would usally join me, because he gets cold, he scratch on his kennel to get out, so yea he joined me, HE WAS COLD! We had our cuddle time. I am such a sucker!!









We will get through this without incident. I feel bad for my doggies that this is learn as you go, but once you do, it is there, this will not happen again.


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Also I get the children thing too. 

We are strict with our boys. They have boundries and rules. 

I have often thought about it in that way. 

I think sometimes I get hung up on feeling sorry for my dogs, because they are rescues. 

Like Bruno, when he came here, my DH and showered him with attention. (Probably smoothered him). Not only was he in a misable shelter for 5 wks He was our new JRT, like the one we lost. 

I think we transferred our feelings of grief to Bruno. 

OK, that makes it all deep and stuff. But I know some of this emotional stuff was going on. My DH's face lights up when he sees Bruno. He shows people pics on his cell phone. 

I am aware of all this now. If we love him, he needs rules. His life is on the line. 

This situation is very much a night time thing too. Bruno changes at night, He needs to be separated. He gets really grumpy, when he is done he is done, The growling will not be tolerated.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Kelly, I think that you are a dog trainer at heart -- it's clear from your words that you "get it". Following through is always harder, I know









Once you get that structure to your pack, they will all be healthier, mentally and physically. You'll find ways, within that structure to smother and give them the attention that you want to give them, but now it will be more on your terms. And they will be within a structure that they need, which really does typically make them happier and calmer and more level headed.

I bet it won't take long until you see some positive changes.


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

OK, All in all, today was an improvement, because of the separteing. 

BUT not good. I have SO much work to do. Bruno growled at just about everyone today. From his kennel, then he and LADY got into it in the yard. I guess because of his wound, I dunno. 
I was not letting Shadow out with him, but Lady and Bella. He was barking at the dog on the other side of the fence (Abby, she does not bark, at all), so Lady got on to him, She just barks, like a momma dog bark, he turned on her. No injuries. 

Shadow has the runs now. I guess from the separating, I dunno. 

I am not giving up. It is just rough.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Hi Kelly,

I know it must be tough having such a big pack. One summer I took care of my cousins' labs for 3 weeks. I stayed at their farm and I had all three of my animals with me. One of their labs was not good with Cleo so I kept him separated from my animals while we were in the house. I kept him gated in the kitchen with the other lab. I spent plenty of time in the kitchen and everyone was able to be together outside (minus Cleo, of course, who only went out with my dogs and I) but it was a lot handling 4 dogs and keeping them separated! 

I think the best thing for Bruno right now is to keep him separated from everyone else. And I do think you need to sign him up first for training and you need to find someone who understands dog behavior. My mom adopted a dog who sounds a lot like Bruno. He was great at first but as he got more comfortable he tried to take over the house and he was partially successful. He bit a ton of people and other dogs (including both Chama and Basu). I was really the only person in my family who was willing to handle him, besides my mom. I observed him for a while and was able to figure out his triggers. He had A LOT of them. But he also had fear issues combined with an alpha wannabe personality and my mom wasn't a good leader and that resulted in the dog making one bad decision after another. So I think you really need to find someone who can evaluate Bruno and determine what kind of training he needs.


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

OK, I might have found a training place to call. I want to ask my vet about them first. 

$25 to $35 an hour. 

I am going to take Bruno. 

I am letting him and Shadow be together a little more today. Bruno is feeling better. I am keeping a close eye and correcting, redirecting, and staying in charge. 

Bruno is very growly and wants to control. Shadow just wants to PLAY constantly, but is to aggressive with it (it annoys Bella and Lady too), Lady has tried to teach Shadow how to play. I do not get it, he has such a soft mouth (i have seen him pick up a balloon). He just bites a little to hard when playing. So, I am not letting Shadow play that way at all, only with toys. 

I feel in control of them this morning. We will see, I felt that way yesterday morning too. We will see what the day brings. 

I will take Bruno to a trainer. But I think I was wrong, he is not an aggressive dog. Nor is Shadow. I understand the difference now and what happened.


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Thanks for your help Ruth.

Cleo is your cat right? Bruno wants to kill my cat. That is a whole other issue we are working on. 

He listensing to me now though, When he is on his way to go find the cat, he stops when I call him back. That is a plus. 

I have to admit too. Bruno ecaped from our yard 4 times. I think we have all the exits taken care of now. 

Just wanted everyone to know, all the problems I have been dealing with.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Originally Posted By: Daisy1986OK, I might have found a training place to call. I want to ask my vet about them first.
> ......
> 
> I will take Bruno to a trainer. But I think I was wrong, he is not an aggressive dog. Nor is Shadow. I understand the difference now and what happened.


It's good to know if your your vet has heard anything negative about the trainer. But remember, many vets don't really know that much about training, so positive referral may not mean what you think it does. A good conversation with the vet should help you evaluate that. I think you have good instincts -- follow them. 

It's huge that you see how this all evolved. There's a ton of good information that BWM and 3K9 posted. When you start adding structure and drawing the boundaries, it's just like kids, it gets worse before it gets better. Right now you are in that flair up. I have no idea how long that lasts.


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Things did not go to bad today. I was on top of it. 

The worst that happened is Bruno got a hold of napkins and went under the Christmas tree. Before I could stop my hubby he did it the old way, Trying to get it out of his mouth, Bruno goes all Cujo. So, then I broke out the treats the other two times it happened, worked like a charm. 

He and Shadow had some supervised romping today too. Went very well. 

Bruno challaged Lady again. I stopped it. 

It is CRAZY the difference between Shadow and Bruno. Like I said Bruno goes all Cujo to protect was he has stolen. Shadow got a hold of a paper towel today, my DH just looked at Shadow and said really? you too? I thought Shadow was going to crawl up his own butt. He was just like, I am sorry man, could not help myself...
Bruno after we get it away from him, no remorse, he is just like, yea, ya caught me SO what, where's something else.....Then he will lay his ears back and wiggle his butt, and you melt...

Little crapper is going to kill me!!


----------



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Can we get Bruno a hobby, like today? He has entirely too much time on his hands, too much cognitive energy and no where to spend it. 

The game Find It, perhaps, just for starters. Can you go to the library and get a book or DVD on dog tricks and start teaching him tricks? Heck, your children and DH should be able to teach him tricks. That can be their job. (You kind of have your hands full).

A great trick is teaching a dog to pick up toys and drop them into a plastic bin that you (your kids) carry around. Eventually, he learns to bring the toys to the toy bin while it's in one place. You tell him to "Clean up!" and he scurries around the house picking up all the dog toys. 

If your kids are shifty enough, they could train him to pick up their toys, socks, etc too.









But seriously, Bruno needs a job. Starting tomorrow morning. Let's see if we can put our heads together and think up fascinating ways to keep Bruno busy. And when he's not, he has to be like my precious feisty hound -- tethered, so he will stay out of everyone else's face and out of trouble.


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Yes, you are right. 

That is what is tugging at my heart. 

I will try what you say. I am just starting to wonder if I am short changing him. 

I do not have that kind of time. 

I will keep trying. 

He needs someone who wakes up and says lets go, what can we do. Instead of someone dealing with 3 other dogs, kids, cat....

Plus it is winter, we gotta make til then, I could do so much more with him...

We love him, it would really kill us to have to rehome him, but if it for his safty and our sanity.....We will see. Today was not so bad. 

He is hanging out in his kennel at night, now that I have made it more available to him, like his little room. I think he likes that. Like, OK Shadow, I am done for the night, go away.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Kelly-what about contacting a Russell Rescue to see who they use to train and if they have any tips? I think it takes a different kind of person to have a terrier and the ones I've met in agility classes are much like their dogs.







(in other words-they scared me a little







) They might even have some game ideas for you too. 

There was one little one in an agililty class I took with Kramer when Kramer was 11. It attacked a border collie and they had to throw a coat on it to get it off that poor dog. After it was over, Kramer, who was SO ticked, went up to each of the other JRT in the class and air humped them. Like just in case any of you other little freaks decide to try this...remember who's boss. 

I think Kramer was right though-that the people in the class hadn't taken control and the dog did. So he looked around, saw that still no one was going to take over the class, so he did. You don't have a Kramer, so it's going to have to be you! 

Once you realize with a pack that you basically have created a group home for dogs, you get into the idea of structure, routine, and living NILIF. Just like when we used to choose activities in a group home, the kids didn't get to choose between a strip club and a bar...they got to choose between Sportland and a movie! So you limit the choices the dogs get, and let them know that there are things that are unacceptable (which is a word I actually use-watch the ears go back-oh no, I did something unacceptable) and simply not tolerated. I was lucky because I did this on-going as I added dogs to the pack. I also have Kramer! 

You can still do it though! And know you will try! Incorporate training into all the things you do with them-they will love that, and it will keep Bruno's little mind running in the way you want it to. My Bruno is also more energetic and there are days I feel badly for him because he would like to get more of his crazies out than he does-but it balances out. Good luck-they are a beautiful pack.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

I have a friend who does russell rescue, she may be able to give you a contact in your area,,her email is [email protected], name is Sue..that email is d and letter L with a zero 1...

ANyhow,,she has ALOT of JRT's, and they are not an easy dog especially within a pack..if you've ever had an easy one, you've been lucky)

They are hunters, so cat /varmint killing is not uncommon..they are feisty dogs,,so challenging and fighting for what they want or don't want to do, is also not uncommon..

Don't get me wrong they can be very sweet and FUN dogs! But they need a really strong leader, and no getting away with bad behavior..

My friend had one rescue who attacked her horse,,not a smart dog, as he got the worst of it.

Keeping him separated, and being on top of the behaviors is a 'good' thing..email her if you wish, and she may be able to provide you with some type of contact to help in your area..

Good luck..
diane


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*



> Quote:
> Once you realize with a pack that you basically have created a group home for dogs, you get into the idea of structure, routine, and living NILIF


This is worth repeating.

Actually a lot of what Jean said is funny and would be fun to repeat. But that one sentence is how we live. "Routine makes rules" is what we say around here. 

That's our joke because our dogs expect the routine, and they seem to really like knowing what to expect when. And Lord help Dh if he doesn't want to play soccer at 9pm with Camper, which is routine. I tell Dh, "it's the rule."









But Camper knows not to bother Dh at 8:45 or 8:50. Nine o'clock on the dot is when he walks over, dribbling his soccer ball, just in case Dh forgot. Meri's in Camper's big crate in the family room taking a nap or playing quietly til then. (She has quiet time from about 7:30- 9:00. She gets wild and mouthy during that time otherwise). 

The girls go out and play in the front yard too. Meri chases Camper, and Boni sniffs around and chases us. They know that that immediately after soccer (at about 9:45) they go into the back yard, potty, come into the house, drink water. Camp and Meri gets their supplements while Zamboni gets her medicine. Then another potty run in the back yard (this one lasts about 5 minutes. Gotta get in last minute sniffing too). 

Then I announce Bedtime, and EVERYONE runs into the house, rush down the hallway and gets in his/her crate (or bed). They get a snack and it's lights out for the dogs. No messing around. No whining. No "I'm thirsty." Lights out mean bedtime.

Every once in a while when we're locking up the house after the dogs have gone to bed, Camper or Boni will come wandering out of the bedroom. "Ak! What are you doing out here?" we shout, and one of us will chase them (running) back down the hallway into their bed. It's funny, and they love it. But the point is, there's a routine. And the routine is the law. 

We didn't TRAIN them every step of this routine. We just did it, night after night. We were consistent week after week, month after month, year after year. A new puppy or dog comes in and we use treats to reward following the routine. Getting distracted isn't corrected with hard corrections but gentle reminders of what they should be doing next: "Boni, Drink water!" "Meri, Backyard potty!" 

I did this for so many years on my own with two dogs, and when Dh and I got married, he joined in, which helped. Some days, it feels like we're directing traffic in downtown New York City during Christmas time. Some Days, it's a symphony orchestra and I just have to stand back, issue a few directions and the kids do all the work.

But I agree with Jean that structure and routine should be very helpful. 

A group home for dogs.


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Hi Kelly,

I'm coming pretty late to this thread but just wanted to say that I had a JRT foster last year who was VERY similar to your little guy. In Neville's case he got along well with the other dogs but we had major resource guarding issues as well as major cujo time when we tried to make him do something he didn't want to do (like leave a room or come out of his crate). While the go-to explanation is usually "alpha" behavior, what I'm pretty sure actually happened in his case was that he had been severely punished for stealing things and misbehaving in his previous home. If he took something and saw you coming after him, he thought you were going to hurt him and he wasn't going down without a fight. I've seen this in other dogs when you take a naturally unsubmissive or sharp dog and then terrorize them - you get a dog who becomes proactive in the face of a perceived threat. People make it worse because as the dog goes into defensive mode, they become even more insistent about "making him submit" and the whole thing escalates.

In Neville's case as he got to know us better and feel more comfortable and trusting, a lot of the behavior resolved itself. He was one of those rare dogs who had been mistreated by a woman rather than a man, so he bonded to my husband much faster than he did to me. We taught him cues and alternate behaviors - like the trading you're doing, letting him know that this was something different and nothing bad was about to happen, he just wasn't allowed to do whatever he was doing. He was a sweet little guy at heart and you could see him visibly relaxing as he started feeling safer. He was eventually adopted by a wonderful couple and is doing well, it just took time. The husband of the couple spent a part of his childhood in an orphanage and it has been so touching to see the way he empathized with Neville's confusion and anxiety and led him through it. They've really done more with him than we ever did. 

Anyway, I agree with the advice you've been given - NILIF, lots of exercise etc. Just throwing out the possibility that his "cujo" reaction is because he thinks he's about to be punished, rather than he wants to be the boss. Sometimes a "cue" word can help. It sets up a new context for the dog - like, I'd say "trade me" and then he knew what to expect and that he wasn't about to get spanked or something. Like Lori said, dogs love routine and I think that extends to just generally liking to know what to expect. Dogs thrive on predictability. 

Thanks for rescuing the little feller. JRTs are one of the most common small dog breeds I see in shelters and definitely the hardest to place. They have their own drummer, that's for sure, but they're great little dogs (you know, when they want to be!







)


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Just checking in this weekend. I have to read these last 3 posts more throughly. Thanks so much for your imput!!









I called 2 trainers from this area. One from St. Louis, left message never has called back. 

One in the KS area, that retired his rescue 5 yrs ago, he had a spinal injury. I recog his name from my last JRT. I had E-mailed him to get health advice about her. You are right Diane she was a special JRT, my vet always told me that, now having Bruno I really know he was right. 
Anyway even though he was not rescuing any longer, he chatted with me and gave me advice (same advice you all are given me, obeidance classes, etc) He knew of a trainer, I recognize his last name too, he just happens to be my old family vets brother, 

It is all going to work out. I will call him after Christmas. 

Bruno is doing very well. Still challages. I just feel better about address them. 

I really thought he and Shadow were communacating and would wk out their rank in the pack. 

I now realize the vocals were for ME to pick up on. 

I will come back tomorrow and re read, and read more of this thread. IT HELPS SO MUCH! 
Just please know I would not know what to do without this forum. 

With all the help I have gotten here for Shadow, Bella, Lady, and now Bruno! 

By the way K9MOM, your Beagle puppy is the cutest ever!! 

More tomorrow to pupresq, Diane, thanks


----------



## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Total set back. DH wants to rehome him. Bruno got a hold of something very special of his.









It is all my fault. I am in over my head. I feel like every bad owner there ever was...

He does every bad thing a dog could do. I kept saying to myself, I can do this. I am a little upset right now, do not know what to say. I have to find him a good home, a perfect home. I feel so sick.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

I know it feels overwhelming right now.









When I do private lessons with someone I have them make a list of everything they want to change, one list that's their absolutes, and then an additional wish list of things that would be nice. And from there we come up with a behavior modification plan. Sometimes it's at least helpful to see it all put down in list form and it helps separate the undesirable behaviors from the dog him/herself. 

What would your list be?


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

My list would be, I want to trust him. 

I know Shadow is still a pup, he has also been with me longer. There was a time when I could not trust him. There was a time when DH thought we would have to rehome him over $ because of health reasons, not behavior. 
Shadow was just different. His chewing made sense, he was bored, or needed exercise. We have always been connected. 

This JRT just wakes up and is on a mission of distruction. 

He did this last thing, right after a walk and training. So it was his body and mind, then he jumps up to grab something off a dresser to chew on??? He just makes no sense. I know dogs can be crazy, disstructive, aggressive, have accidents, dig, run off, Not get along with cats, etc. 

But not like this, he is relentless. Then he is sweet, he is like dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde. Every once and a while now, he will listen to me. I keep thinking OK progress we are making a connection, then he has a bulb off the Christmas tree!! 

He is mostly kenneled, because I just cannot take it any more. He is NOT a puppy. He is 2. 

I want to do the obediance. But I am telling you, I am not new to this, I am just not sure he is ever going to get it. Maybe I am just frustrated. 

Maybe I am just spoiled by my other dogs. They listen, I see it in their eyes, I am connected with them, can pretty much tell what they are thinking. Bruno has his own aggenda, he does not want to go with the flow of the house, or the scedule. 

Also when Shadow came here he was 6 months, and had injuries, then a surgery. Once he was over all that, the hard parts everything fell into place. I am not saying my other 3 are perfect. Shadow can slip and stick his head in the trash can. OR Lady will counter surf if she thinks she can get away with it. Bella will eat cat poop every time if you do not watch her when she goes downstairs to get in her kennel. 
3 dogs, maybe one thing they do that bugs me. 

Bruno has them ALL. You know he still has that fishing line like thing from his neuter sticking out, well it is coming out, we cut it off. But it does not seem to bother him, it cannot attribute to all his behavior problems. 
His wound is doing great. 
He is on the best food. Is being exercised, my 5 yr old plays with him all the time, I am doing NILF....

I just do not know what more to do. My DH is done. 

He said you are making a big deal out of this. (Because I want to find him a good home myself), he just wants to take him to a shelter. He wants him gone. I guess I found my husbands limits with my little rescue efforts. He told me he will never pull a dog out of a shelter again. (Lady came from a shelter, he picked her out, I guess they are not all Lady's). 

We just have to do all the wk no one did with Bruno since he was born, or is he just like this. 

Even the KS rescue guy did not know the answer to that. 

I am so exhausted. This is life changing for me. If I cannot save Bruno, it changes my life. Because I want to help and save dogs. 

Can you not save them all, is OK to rehome sometimes? Sorry , I am probably not making sense.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

I hear you, I really do







, but I think you're spinning into higher and higher anxiety and you need to take a deep breath, stand back, and then start to approach the problem. 

I totally understand wanting to trust him, unfortunatly trust is built on a million other things and most of all, trust takes time. A lot of the problems are probably because he wants to but doesn't trust you yet either. Personally, I think this is where your resource guarding is coming from. 

I have taken a LOT of big scary adult dogs into my home - and some small scary ones. And some of them have done things that made me very uneasy. I didn't trust them. I compared them unfavorably to my beloved personal dogs who I knew and understood. These new guys seemed scary and unpredictable. I've wondered what the heck I just got myself into. The JRT I posted about earlier was definitely a case of a dog I just didn't trust. I seriously thought I might end up having to euthanize him because I thought he would never be adoptable and he was throwing our household into chaos. But we gave it some time, and now he's got wonderful owners and is doing great. 

Bruno is not connecting with you because he doesn't trust you any more than you trust him. He is a JRT so he has all these natural terrier tendencies and in his previous two years he has had little direction or training and has been punished for doing what came naturally to him, with no redirection to what was wanted. He is a little island unto himself. You say he doesn't "want" to go with the flow of the house, but it's very possible he doesn't even know there is a flow to the house. 

I learned a lot of this the hard way doing rescue but also parenting a child with reactive attachment disorder. You adopt one of these kids and you think to yourself - I don't get it!!! I am giving them the best food and they have clothes and toys and care, WHY are they running around like a maniac breaking things? Why do they act like they don't even remotely care that what they're doing is hurting me? Why aren't they acting more like everyone else's kids? Why don't they care that I'm trying to help them? 

You end up becoming more and more frustrated and angry and resentful because it seems for all the world like they are doing this on purpose and it's ruining your life. But the answer is that they don't "care" because they don't think that way. They haven't learned how to connect. They don't trust you and they are in their own little world, so your needs and routines aren't even on their radar. Once you accept that they aren't doing this on purpose, they're just blind to what you need from them, you can let go of a lot of the anger and frustration that tends to escalate things and start moving forward from there. 

The good news is that you CAN reach dogs like this. You can reach kids like this too, but it's a much longer road, so we'll stick with dogs for the time being!









If you want to help this guy - either so you can keep him or so you can find him another home - then you need to break down the desired behavior into manageable steps. For example: 

1. I want Bruno to give up items he shouldn't have without becoming aggressive
2. I want Bruno to make eye contact with me
3. I want Bruno and Shadow to be able to play together peacefully

Make a list of the specific behaviors you are looking for. When you've got that list, then you can try to come up with some measurable benchmarks. Ex: By next Saturday I want him to be able to make eye contact with me for x number of seconds. Set him (and yourself) up for success. 

I have been where you are and I know how much it sucks, but I can look back on those dogs and be so happy that I didn't give up on them. That moment where something finally clicked and you can see in their eyes "Oh! _THAT_ was what you wanted? I had no idea! No problem!" is an amazing thing. Those are the dogs that I've learned the most from. It's very hard when your spouse is adding pressure to the mix, but if you want to try to help this dog, it may help diffuse some of your husband's agitation if he felt like you had a plan and were making measurable progress. 

One step at a time.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

Going to E-mail your friend Sue for advice Diane or maybe she can list Bruno for me. 

Man this is breaking my heart. 

I have been working so hard with him today, everything I am doing is working. 

Got up ate breakfast, then I have noticed he looks to me like, OK, what now? When the other dogs just know. 

So, I grabed a toy and he was off to play with it. He needs more direction. 

I am secretly praying there is still a way to keep him, to convience my DH, like I did with Shadow (it helped that Shadow no longer needed the $4000.00 surgery, but we were going to get it for him through everyone's advice on here and care credit). 
I am praying for the same mircle for Bruno. Really he is my DH's dog. He is the one with the passion for JRT's. 

I hope he wakes up today (he works nights), and has calmed down and re thinks things. Also that my cat comes out from under the bed. Is it to much to ask. 

Sorry for ranting, this thread has become a venting blog. Maybe it should be moved to behavior or training.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: guarding Non-GSD/dog fight*

I am keeping him.


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