# Training issue/Socialization issue? How do I fix?



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Puppy is now almost 6 months. I've been taking him to the vet, tractor supply, and other pet stores to socialize. He does well when out. 

However here at home he had an issue. My daughter visited earlier this week she presented her research at a symposium here. Anyway Dude was a little turd. He would take treats from her but when she would get up to go into the other room he would run and bark and growl. ( kind of like what you see some frou frou dogs do). 

How do I correct this? I don't have people over very much but I don't want him being a turd when they do come over.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Run toward her aggressively or away from her out of fear?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Run toward her aggressively or away from her out of fear?



Away out of fear. 


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

My experience with my guy, people out in the field is one thing, people in there space is another thing! I don't consider that unusual myself.

Maybe something along the lines of Cesar Millans advise, No touch, no talk no eye contact? Rocky is excellent out in the field but having folks over is a case by case deal.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> My experience with my guy, people out in the field is one thing, people in there space is another thing! I don't consider that unusual myself.
> 
> Maybe something along the lines of Cesar Millans advise, No touch, no talk no eye contact? Rocky is excellent out in the field but having folks over is a case by case deal.



Strangers ok I can work around it but this is daughter (college student) still come home for winter break, summer break etc. Other daughter may be living here for 4 months while student teaching. Have got to fix this. Can't have puppy barking and running every time kids head for fridge. 



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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Spoke with my husband about getting Dude into puppy classes. He said to go for it. So does anyone have any recommendations for this area?


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

The only trainer I have personal experience with for general training (well, she does more than general training too) is up in reno. I am assuming that is too far... The only trainer further south that I have worked with only does herding.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

mspiker03 said:


> The only trainer I have personal experience with for general training (well, she does more than general training too) is up in reno. I am assuming that is too far... The only trainer further south that I have worked with only does herding.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Would prefer Carson or Fallon but will do what I have too. He needs more socialization? or something than I am giving him.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

He doesn't need more out and about socialization, he needs to be better socialized within your home with a variety of people. Or, maybe he needs a good correction when he does this with your daughters. I don't know, I haven't seen your puppy in action. But, some dogs that go through a rather stupid period, can be a whole lot better once they mature. 

Or they can just be a lot bigger and more intimidating.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Well, if Reno works, I would call Joanna - Reno dog training, cat training and parrot training | Fur and Feather Works

I like her. We take Nosework classes with her. The other option is to do private lessons less frequently and work on things at home. That way you aren't making the drive each week. I did that with Paisleys training since I could only get there every few weeks (it was in the Bay Area). 

Don't know anything about the trainers in Carson (again, besides herding).


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> He doesn't need more out and about socialization, he needs to be better socialized within your home with a variety of people. Or, maybe he needs a good correction when he does this with your daughters. I don't know, I haven't seen your puppy in action. But, some dogs that go through a rather stupid period, can be a whole lot better once they mature.
> 
> Or they can just be a lot bigger and more intimidating.


Well I don't know anyone to bring to socialize him within my home. Other than my daughters and their friends we rarely have anyone over. I thought about the correction, but if he is scared and growling I want that warning, if you know what I mean. He needs to be more social with people. We see people at tractor supply and at the vet but they don't interact with him much. He needs to interact with people.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

mspiker03 said:


> Well, if Reno works, I would call Joanna - Reno dog training, cat training and parrot training | Fur and Feather Works
> 
> I like her. We take Nosework classes with her. The other option is to do private lessons less frequently and work on things at home. That way you aren't making the drive each week. I did that with Paisleys training since I could only get there every few weeks (it was in the Bay Area).
> 
> Don't know anything about the trainers in Carson (again, besides herding).


I'm not sure private lessons would help, he is scared of people. His mom was a stray, he was raised until 12 weeks at the kennel with lots of other dogs, but not many people. I live out here with very few people around. He needs to learn people are ok. I am hoping maybe a puppy class to meet people?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> Well I don't know anyone to bring to socialize him within my home. Other than my daughters and their friends we rarely have anyone over. I thought about the correction, but if he is scared and growling I want that warning, if you know what I mean. He needs to be more social with people. We see people at tractor supply and at the vet but they don't interact with him much. He needs to interact with people.


Maybe.

You know your puppy. 

From your initial post, it seemed to me, that your puppy is ok outside the home. But at home, he seems a little more weirded out when there are people there that are not normally there. 

Some dogs have little to know trouble in public, but are territorial about their kennel or their house. 

I just don't know that having more experiences with strangers away from the home will do anything to help with the problem of occasional residents within the home.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Well if he is as scared as you say, I would personally go privates and start to work on issues so as not to overwhelm him at puppy class. But that is just me.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Puppy class isn't going to cut it. You have a very specific problem. A behaviorial problem. I've had a dog with similar issues. He can be very nice and obedient one moment and then suddenly when a family member walked by him he'd light up on them. Corrections didn't work. The dog just could never settle. Basically slept with one eye open and trusted no one but me.

You need a private trainer and some one on one training. Btw more socialization really isn't the way to go with a fearful dog. Easily could make things worst instead of better. 

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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

I don't think meeting more people is the answer. I believe you should probably up the obedience. I would teach him a reliable "down"...give him a safe place, put him in a down when your daughter is around (or anyone), and correct for breaking the down. That way he doesn't think he's being corrected because a person is around, he's corrected for breaking the down. In my eyes breaking a down is barking, growling, overly attentive to someone/something, or anything other than calmly staying in "down." I did this for my last GSD who was fearful and my previous corgi (with the help of an experienced trainer). If they have a safe place (I would always have them in the down...which they learned was the safe place, ie nothing could happen to him/her), they started to relax immediately and wouldn't react to the stranger in the house.

After a little while the dog learned it was safe in "down" and stopped seeing things as scary, because he knew they weren't going to get to him in his "safe place." 

It also depends on what you want out of the dog, it sounds like at his core he's never going to be interested in greeting everyone. I would up the obedience (make it reliable, not something he only does for a treat), be careful not to over socialize him, and teach him to be neutral and basically ignore other people and dogs (by making him follow obedience around them). It's best if you can have a trainer help you make that down/place/sit, reliable.

Good luck! I don't think he's as bad as some are saying. If you get a chance there is an old thread I created about an ecollar article. In the thread Lou talked about why he thought the ecollar (really the reliable obedience achieved through the ecollar), helped fearful dogs become completely non reactive. I don't think it HAS to be done with the ecollar, but he talks about how putting the obedience on the dog, not letting the dog break the down/sit/place, takes away the flight/fight, and seems to allow them to settle and relax....in a sense "curing" that reactivity. He has some really neat stories about some "hopeless" rescues that completely turned around through simple, reliable, clear, obedience (NOT saying your boy is by any means hopeless just that I think it's something you could help him get through). Let us know how everything goes. :-D


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Maybe scared is too strong word. He will take treats, he lets his ears be scratched. He is wary. He is also only 23 weeks old Boomer. He sleeps fine. He cuddled with us, he sniffed and licked at her toes but when she got up he barked and ran. I really think its lack of socialization with people, but you guys are the experts. Actually really curious to see what some of the trainers on here think?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

DaniFani said:


> I don't think meeting more people is the answer. I believe you should probably up the obedience. I would teach him a reliable "down"...give him a safe place, put him in a down when your daughter is around (or anyone), and correct for breaking the down. That way he doesn't think he's being corrected because a person is around, he's corrected for breaking the down. In my eyes breaking a down is barking, growling, overly attentive to someone/something, or anything other than calmly staying in "down." I did this for my last GSD who was fearful and my previous corgi (with the help of an experienced trainer). If they have a safe place (I would always have them in the down...which they learned was the safe place, ie nothing could happen to him/her), they started to relax immediately and wouldn't react to the stranger in the house.
> 
> After a little while the dog learned it was safe in "down" and stopped seeing things as scary, because he knew they weren't going to get to him in his "safe place."
> 
> ...


I'm not one that takes my dogs out a lot. What I need is for him to be comfortable when my kids are staying here. He needs to not freak out if they bring friends over. A safe place sounds like a good idea, a place to start. I thought a puppy class might help him but I guess I will talk to a trainer and see what they think.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

shepherdmom said:


> I'm not one that takes my dogs out a lot. What I need is for him to be comfortable when my kids are staying here. He needs to not freak out if they bring friends over. A safe place sounds like a good idea, a place to start. I thought a puppy class might help him but I guess I will talk to a trainer and see what they think.


I don't think there is anything wrong with a puppy class, I just don't think it will really solve the problem in the home, necessarily. I'd be curious what Winners, Blitz, or any other people with pet obedience training experience would think. With my dogs the reliable obedience, indirectly fixed the issue (corgi was a bigger issue than shepherd...not my current corgi, a past one). A few times using the "safe place" and the dog wasn't reactive with people in the home anymore, in or out of the "safe place." It's like giving him the "Security" gave him time to realize the people in the house weren't a threat, if that makes sense.

Lou talks about a dog he put reliable obedience on, the dog went from being scared of people in or out of the home, to..as he put it..."wanting to crawl in their laps."


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

shepherdmom said:


> Spoke with my husband about getting Dude into puppy classes. He said to go for it. So does anyone have any recommendations for this area?


I think this is a great way to go. Good luck!

For me, the confidence they will get in themselves AND in you from the classes will directly relate to the home environment. 

You may also want to purchase and go thru The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell. Easy stuff you can do around the house to get a leadership role (this isn't obedience training, easier little things you can do that make a huge difference). http://www.janfennellthedoglistener.com/


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## Sri (Apr 25, 2013)

My guess is he will come around once he realises they are family. By the third or fourth day you will already see a difference in his acceptance.


You can put him in his crate and playpen in the beginning when they come over. When he is quiet and calm, they can throw him treats to catch in his pen. Praise him, etc. They can ask for a sit and then treat. And then when you see him calm, happy, relaxed, you can open the door for him. He can choose to come out or stay in as he feels comfortable. 

But I wonder if this is not partly puppy play? Ours pretty much used to do similar things, zooming around, high barks, play bows, etc.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I think this is a great way to go. Good luck!
> 
> For me, the confidence they will get in themselves AND in you from the classes will directly relate to the home environment.
> 
> You may also want to purchase and go thru The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell. Easy stuff you can do around the house to get a leadership role (this isn't obedience training, easier little things you can do that make a huge difference). Welcome | Jan Fennell the Dog Listener



Thanks for the link. Interesting she suggests removing him from the room, basically a time out, for the dog when he growls. Hmmm....


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Sri said:


> My guess is he will come around once he realises they are family. By the third or fourth day you will already see a difference in his acceptance.
> 
> Unfortunately this time she was only home for the day she had to fly back after the symposium. But she will be back this summer. Hopefully by then he will be more confident. Unfortunately he will be a lot bigger too..
> 
> ...


No this was not play. This was back off, ears back and bark when he was safe from the other room.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

shepherdmom said:


> Strangers ok I can work around it but this is daughter (college student) still come home for winter break, summer break etc. Other daughter may be living here for 4 months while student teaching. Have got to fix this. Can't have puppy barking and running every time kids head for fridge.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I understand what your saying. But your away from home family is part of "your" pack not the dogs.

It's a behaviour that you'll need to deal with but I don't see it as a behaviour that is out of the norm for a GSD.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

DaniFani said:


> I don't think meeting more people is the answer. I believe you should probably up the obedience. I would teach him a reliable "down"...give him a safe place, put him in a down when your daughter is around (or anyone), and correct for breaking the down. That way he doesn't think he's being corrected because a person is around, he's corrected for breaking the down. In my eyes breaking a down is barking, growling, overly attentive to someone/something, or anything other than calmly staying in "down." I did this for my last GSD who was fearful and my previous corgi (with the help of an experienced trainer). If they have a safe place (I would always have them in the down...which they learned was the safe place, ie nothing could happen to him/her), they started to relax immediately and wouldn't react to the stranger in the house.
> 
> After a little while the dog learned it was safe in "down" and stopped seeing things as scary, because he knew they weren't going to get to him in his "safe place."
> 
> ...


Something along these lines, next best thing to a dog that likes people is a dog that has reliable obedience.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Something along these lines, next best thing to a dog that likes people is a dog that has reliable obedience.


hence the training class.  I don't think he is going to accept her as pack right away but he has to learn not to run and bark. I thought if he learned to accept people more that it would help. Puppy class seemed the way to combine socialization with some basic learning. I mean he already knows basics, sit, down, working on stay. He is very toy and food motivated.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

The idea of 3 steps in classes may work - private classes to begin with - get his ob good, move to growly dog classes for the way they are set up; lot of space between the dogs and handlers and/or partitioned. He will still have the exposure to people up and moving but they won't be in his bubble. Then move to puppy/beginners classes- more exposure, keep in mind it may seem like he takes a step or 2 back to begin with. Work off to the side, get and keep his focus, gradually work in closer. Keep an eye on his threshold limits.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Have you tried getting your daughter to play with him outside the house, so he's more comfortable with her? Maybe if she's doing all the feeding it might help too?


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Hi shepherd mom. Wow your boy is growing fast! I think blanket back gave you very good advice" your boy needs too make pals with your daughter and learn how cool and fun she can be!! Good luck on the ob. Bill

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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

At 23 weeks, he has nearly a month before he reaches six months. I think puppy classes will build his confidence IF he is still allowed in puppy classes, ours take puppies up to 4 months at the start, and dogs older than that at the start of classes go straight to basic. Not much difference, but they are more relaxed about dogs meeting each other in puppy, and they do things like pass the puppy, where the puppies are passed around the circle while a variety of handlers talk to them and give them treats -- This is the way the puppy classes I have attended have done it, every puppy class is different dependent on the instructor.

It certainly sounds like Dude needs more confidence and training that is positive, with praise and treats for accomplishment should help to build that. So regular basic is probably just as well, rather than a class specific to puppies. I don't know if I would take him to a growly dog class, I guess it would depend on the class. Reactive dogs can feed off of each other. And I don't know if I would want to go to that level -- label him reactive/in need of a growly dog class until the dog is at least 12 months old.

The puppy is also very young. Maturity can make all the difference. And then whatever technique you chose you will encourage because, hey, it worked! But sometimes our dogs just need to gain a little age. Some go through some wonky stages. And this age seems to be troublesome for some people/dogs. You may see totally different behavior when the pup is 9-10 months old. 

I have read Jan Fennel's book, there's good stuff in there.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> Have you tried getting your daughter to play with him outside the house, so he's more comfortable with her? Maybe if she's doing all the feeding it might help too?


She was only here for the one day. She is back at college now. I just want to be prepared before she comes home next summer. 



> Hi shepherd mom. Wow your boy is growing fast! I think blanket back gave you very good advice" your boy needs too make pals with your daughter and learn how cool and fun she can be!! Good luck on the ob. Bill


Yes he is getting big  Thanks. I'm just worried because he will be close to full grown the next time she comes home. Our other dogs all love her, I was just taken aback at his reaction. Want to make sure its not a problem in the future. 



> The idea of 3 steps in classes may work - private classes to begin with - get his ob good, move to growly dog classes for the way they are set up; lot of space between the dogs and handlers and/or partitioned. He will still have the exposure to people up and moving but they won't be in his bubble. Then move to puppy/beginners classes- more exposure, keep in mind it may seem like he takes a step or 2 back to begin with. Work off to the side, get and keep his focus, gradually work in closer. Keep an eye on his threshold limits.


Oh wow growly dog classes? I think he would get kicked out. He is great with other dogs. Its people he is wary but not aggressive with. If anything he would rather hide behind me. I just want to help him gain a little confidence so he doesn't feel the need to hide behind me. 



> The puppy is also very young. Maturity can make all the difference. And then whatever technique you chose you will encourage because, hey, it worked! But sometimes our dogs just need to gain a little age. Some go through some wonky stages. And this age seems to be troublesome for some people/dogs. You may see totally different behavior when the pup is 9-10 months old.


It may be just his age and I'm probably over reacting... But hopefully taking a puppy or basic class won't hurt. Now if I can just find a good one. His sister is in the Petsmart one. I had hoped to find something a little bit better but since its not far and his sisters people say they are doing a great job maybe I'll just give that one a try.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I think I would at least look into Carson Canine Adventures before Petsmart. I have no experience with them, but I think I would at least give them a call and maybe check the place out.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

PetsMart training depends on the trainer. If it is a good trainer, than it will be a good class. They cannot use some tools, but for a puppy like this is, I think you are better off without them for now.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

Two ideas come into my mind on top of what everyone else is suggesting. Since she is gone for long periods of time and then comes home "suddenly" maybe you could try preparing him the way you do when you are bringing home a new baby. Something with her scent on it left randomly around the house gradually placing it into his favorite areas. Also I haven't tried it yet but another member on here takes her GSD out on leash into the driveway to greet guests. Maybe with these 2 things he won't be so surprised when your daughter comes home and maybe even will look forward to it.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

So what do you all think of this one? I'm looking at the STAR puppy class.

Classes We Offer - Rally/Obedience ClinicDee Dee Anderson!*** Clinic Starts*at 9:00 am ***


There is also this one. http://dogmanguy.com/


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I like #1 better off of looks. But, I would be calling them and telling them what issues I was having and then have them help guide me to which type of class would be best (whether it is the puppy class or privates for an assessment and some training and then group classes). 


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

IMO, when she returns home, take the dog for a walk and have her meet you somewhere along the route. Have some fun and play with the dog while she is close by. If the dog is willing, have her engage the dog and have some fun and then let her walk him back to the house.

This kind of "first impression" can make a lasting impression with the dog.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Some good advice on here.
I think we need to remember its the internet and since the dog cannot be observed in person, at best all people can do is make educated guesses.

All types of nervy dogs
-I have seen nervy dogs that were fairly neutral outside but at home were monsters and vice versa
-Ones that would take treats and be ok one minute but do that one "thing" be it a sneeze or leg twitch and off they go
-I have seen dogs that went through fear periods as pups and became quite social with some life experience
-Or dogs that were nervy from the start and only got worse despite plenty of exposure to the world and vice versa...


The pup could be staging, he could be very nervy at his core or he could have some minor nerve issues that are being exacerbated by a fear period or immaturity.

Personally, if the pup doesnt make a habit of lighting off on folks when he is out and about and has not displayed fear aggression before I would assume this was more of a stage/obedience issue related to immaturity and handler influence.

If he has had issues from the get go such as growling/barking/hackling at people. Acting terrified whenever he is approached etc, then I would view it more in the light of what the dog is at his core and assume a heavy management regimen.

Either way strong obedience is a must, recall, down, heel, sit stay. Taught positively then reenforced with corrections. 

In the house (Dani mentioned this) teach a place command. I make the dogs place in the living room or wherever the people are in a corner where he isnt in the way but can see whats going on. For pups, the place can be a wire crate so they can see out and observe the goings on but also be restrained.

Dog should be taught to go to his place and remain there until otherwise told. If you are using a wire crate the dog can get used to strangers moving around and not hurting him. The wire also provides a medium for the strangers to feed the dog as they go by. Keep the meetings brief and non-confrontational.

Dont force the dog to recieve affection from strangers. This imo is unneccesary, just food no eye contact or touching, this is counter productive and dangerous but if the dog seeks out affection thats fine too. The goal is for the dog to be neutral.

I never allow aggressive displays or freak outs. I correct the dog for those behaviors and reward him for the ones I like. Dont kill the dog with corrections, just be firm and clear enough to get the message across. This is not desired.

Its all just guess work but thats my two cents.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Yes some good advise. Thank you everyone. 

Today my old dog Buddy goes to the vet. I'm terrified. His hind end is giving out more and more. I'm afraid we will have to let him go soon. This will completely rock my pack and us too. 

Tomorrow first thing I will call about the training classes for Dude. I will talk to someone and see what they suggest would be best for him.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Dun dun dun?the Fear Period! | mymegaedog
My 9 month old is in a fear period... I found a good article


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Some good advice on here.
> I think we need to remember its the internet and since the dog cannot be observed in person, at best all people can do is make educated guesses.
> 
> All types of nervy dogs
> ...


WOW! That summation was worth way more than two cents! 

"People" coming over is pretty much what separates the GSD from most dogs. My BullMastiff /APBT/Lab mix and my Boxer, I never gave company a second thought, my GSD is my first thought when we have company! 

He is well trained and disciplined and "go to bed" works but butt wiggles and doggie kisses are off the table!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

glowingtoadfly said:


> Dun dun dun?the Fear Period! | mymegaedog
> My 9 month old is in a fear period... I found a good article


Wow awesome article. Thanks for posting!


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

That is a very good article. My dog started a fear period around 9 months. Not all people but glasses, hats and the Statue of Liberty lady on the corner. People here referred me to some books including Help for your fearful dog by Nicole Wilde. You can get it instantly on Amazon. We did more OB classes and Nosework to improve his confidence. Took him to restaurants with patios, walked shopping centers., Did group dog walks. It has helped tremendously. We can take him anywhere without barking and he mostly ignores everyone while on leash. Off leash he will sniff out who he wants to and ignore others.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Well Dudes training fell by the wayside last week with saying goodbye to my Buddy Bear  but today we got back on track.

I took him to the socialization hour. It was totally not my thing. It was like a dog park on steriods. Ugh! No leashes allowed. 

A real short bit into it, I said we are going to just watch from outside the leash off area because a few of the dogs were getting right into Dudes space and I wasn't going to have any of that. He needs positive experiences. 

We are going to a different trainer tomorrow and I hope that is leashes on. 

Is this leashes off thing something that goes along with the positive only experience? I liked the idea of positive training but this was nuts!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> Well Dudes training fell by the wayside last week with saying goodbye to my Buddy Bear  but today we got back on track.
> 
> I took him to the socialization hour. It was totally not my thing. It was like a dog park on steriods. Ugh! No leashes allowed.
> 
> ...


I think leashes off and positive training appeals to the same types of people, but I don't think they are connected at the hip. My obedience classes have leash on, and even the puppy classes, there are no puppy free-for-alls. They do something called pass the puppy, where in a circle, each pup is passed from one handler to the next, and each one feeds the dog treats and talks to it. We are talking pups from 10 weeks to 4 months. After that, they go into basic and everyone pretty much handles their own dog.

Between 10 weeks and 4 months puppies are more open to everything. After four months, some of them start recognizing that this is a stranger, and that aloofness starts to show. For some of them it is flat out fear or shyness. But usually they are pretty easy up to 4 months. 

I had a yearling pup in class this week, and she went to a set of classes before the winter set in. But as of today she thinks guys are yucky. We have to work on that. The last time she may have seen a guy may have been her classes last fall. Well, maybe Walter has been out once or twice, and since he usually makes lots of noise in the yard, he doesn't count as a positive influence. I kept telling her, yes they make them in Male too. Usually I am telling them, they make them in white, they make them in black, they make them in small, medium, gigantic, they make them with long hair about other dogs. 

Now it is humans, they make them with hats, they make them in male, they make them with dark skin, they make them in x-small, small, medium, large, and x-large.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> I think leashes off and positive training appeals to the same types of people, but I don't think they are connected at the hip. My obedience classes have leash on, and even the puppy classes, there are no puppy free-for-alls. They do something called pass the puppy, where in a circle, each pup is passed from one handler to the next, and each one feeds the dog treats and talks to it. We are talking pups from 10 weeks to 4 months. After that, they go into basic and everyone pretty much handles their own dog.


According to this trainer, the puppy class can be up to 1 year old. They also do pass the puppy because he was telling me about it and they do off leash and they actually combine with another older puppy class for a different off leash socialization partway into it as well. IDK it just doesn't feel comfortable for me. I kept waiting for the dog fight just watching from the outside.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Ok so completely different experience today at this other class. Dogs still all off leash. *sigh* but trainer handed us terrible cans as we walked in and we had to shake can if anyone got too in the face. There were more sizes of dogs & more dogs... The in your face dogs seemed to be happy playing with each other and not bothering Dude. Trainer seemed to be far more on top of things. I liked this one much better and I liked the trainer much better. I'm trying to decided if I should stick with her or keep looking. Her training classes start off one on one and then she decides which class to put you in. That way she knows exactly where the dog is at. It is $120 for 6 weeks which seems about normal.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think that in part it depends on what you want to do with your dog. So many pet-people (I know, but) want to use dog parks and doggy day cares, that I think there is a real push in the area of off-lead from the get go. Since I want to show my dogs, and I do not want my dogs to see another dog and think it is play time, I want my dogs to see other dogs and not freak, not have much of a reaction at all. For me, the best type of class is one where we work next to other people who are working with their dogs on leash. Dogs come off lead in advanced classes during individual runs. 

The way my trainer says, for puppies, they all have to be so close in age and power, to let them free for all without someone becoming a bully and other dogs being bullied, that it is really hard to get a class like that.


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## Tattersail (Feb 5, 2014)

For Raven's puppy classes everyone was pretty much as Selzer said, the same age and size so when they did have off leash time there were few issues. One pup, once got a little growly and in everyone's face, but that pup was basically put in time out, back on leash, and doing focus exercises. Also, the play times were rarely longer then several minutes, with us interrupting them frequently with recalls in the middle of the play, with the final recall being when leashes were put back on and pups were asked to now focus. When we worked on heeling the pups were able to ignore each other and focus quite efficiently. Raven was off lead heeling at this point and a stern leave it if she turned toward another dog was enough to dissuade her and get her focus back on me.

All that to say I don't believe *some* off leash play time is bad, but it shouldn't carry on too long, nor should any one dog be allowed to get into anyone's face.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Tattersail said:


> For Raven's puppy classes everyone was pretty much as Selzer said, the same age and size so when they did have off leash time there were few issues. One pup, once got a little growly and in everyone's face, but that pup was basically put in time out, back on leash, and doing focus exercises. Also, the play times were rarely longer then several minutes, with us interrupting them frequently with recalls in the middle of the play, with the final recall being when leashes were put back on and pups were asked to now focus. When we worked on heeling the pups were able to ignore each other and focus quite efficiently. Raven was off lead heeling at this point and a stern leave it if she turned toward another dog was enough to dissuade her and get her focus back on me.
> 
> All that to say I don't believe *some* off leash play time is bad, but it shouldn't carry on too long, nor should any one dog be allowed to get into anyone's face.


Both of these introductory sessions were adult dogs.... The puppy class in Carson doesn't start for another two weeks but I'm am leaning against that one, I just didn't see that much control over the unleashed dogs. If that was the adults I'm afraid to see what the puppy one is like. 

The one in Yerington that I went to today will always be with adult dogs... She will assess and decide where he is training wise and place him with other dogs of similar skills and temperament. Unfortunately there are not enough puppies to have a dedicated puppy class. I think with this one I will probably get more one on one time with the instructor. 

My choices are fairly limited. My other option is a 120 mile, 2 hour round trip to Reno.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> I think that in part it depends on what you want to do with your dog. So many pet-people (I know, but) want to use dog parks and doggy day cares, that I think there is a real push in the area of off-lead from the get go. Since I want to show my dogs, and I do not want my dogs to see another dog and think it is play time, I want my dogs to see other dogs and not freak, not have much of a reaction at all. For me, the best type of class is one where we work next to other people who are working with their dogs on leash. Dogs come off lead in advanced classes during individual runs.
> 
> The way my trainer says, for puppies, they all have to be so close in age and power, to let them free for all without someone becoming a bully and other dogs being bullied, that it is really hard to get a class like that.


Well am a pet person but I don't want dog parks or doggie day care. I've heard that pet homes are the hardest and I believe it. We go for months without visitors (winter) but when we do get visitors I expect my dogs to be ok with that. The only dogs beside my own that they will ever see is the dog walker, maybe some strays that happen to wander past my yard, and whomever they happen to see at the vet... But I expect them to behaved when we do go to the vet. 

Crud I just don't know what to do. Training has changed so much since the last time I did a class. All this off leash stuff scares the heck out of me. I can see it going bad really fast.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

How about having him on a leash and just ignoring him when your daughter comes over . No eye contact, no treats, and no fast movements . Maybe just sit on the couch and watch a tv show With no interaction .


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

llombardo said:


> How about having him on a leash and just ignoring him when your daughter comes over . No eye contact, no treats, and no fast movements . Maybe just sit on the couch and watch a tv show With no interaction .


Will give that a try next time she is home.  Still want to get him some training though.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> Will give that a try next time she is home.  Still want to get him some training though.


Of course. Training is always good. If does build up confidence. I'm not fond of off leash training and all the places I go to allow them to stay on leash unless I feel completely comfortable.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Of course. Training is always good. If does build up confidence. I'm not fond of off leash training and all the places I go to allow them to stay on leash unless I feel completely comfortable.


Wish I could find something like what I used to do back in the day. This whole dog park style socialization scares me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ah then, maybe it is good to live in such a backwards area. 

I went to class on Tuesday night, first class this year, as it is outside at my trainer's home. I was pleasantly surprised. Usually one or two dogs are ready to eat other dogs, and I spend half my time worrying about someone getting bitten. With the number of young dogs, yearlings, even a 14 week old pup, everyone was very tolerant of one another, and my girl, who I thought would be pretty nutty as she turned 1 in January and her last time out was the end of classes in October or November. She was a little wary of the people, but had no problems whatsoever with the critters. 

Everyone is on lead. Every owner is handling their dog, and responsible for their dog. Dogs are not allowed to have romp sessions. I took Lassie to tractor supply today, and she actually walked up to a guy and sniffed him, yay! She just needs a few more outings and she will be back on track. I hope.


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