# Frustrated with people who can't care for their dogs



## Magwart

I need to vent. I'm putting this in the rescue section hoping maybe other rescue people will understand.

Yesterday was just a bad day. I guess the dog is alive, so it could have been a much worse day. It's also one of those days that show how amazing dogs can be, even when they've suffered...and make me wish I could take all the pain from them.

Late yesterday afternoon, I got a text about a pup in a crowded public shelter with a broken front leg. Her owner surrendered her after she was hit by a car because he couldn't afford vet care for her. This shelter has no x-ray machine, and their vets can't treat this sort of injury -- an owner surrender usually just means euthanizing a dog at taxpayer expense so that owners don't have to pay a vet to do it. Most owner-surrendered, injured animals go straight to the euth room. This pup got a chance most dogs don't get, only because the intake staff and vets there know us from years of volunteering there for Shepherds.

The shelter's vet had given her pain meds on arrival...the best they could do for her, under the circumstances. They couldn't fix her leg, and letting her linger like that would have been cruel...so she needed help immediately.

I grabbed my keys to rush over there. Once I got to the shelter, I learned the injury happened almost _a full week ago_. She'd been suffering with a badly hurt leg and no vet care for 6 long days, living on a chain out in the heat and humidity, until her owner decided it was time to do something. She's so skinny that I suspect she's probably gone hungry far too often. She licked my fingers through the cage and pressed her head into my hand. When I sat on the floor, she was in my lap, leaning into me. She wants to snuggle and be held. She's _so _stinking sweet, even in pain. I cried.

We're full and overloaded with sick and injured dogs, but we did what most rescues do in these circumstances -- shuffle foster dogs and make room for one more. I loaded her up for an hour-long drive through Friday evening traffic to the rescue's wonderful vet, who stays way past closing for stuff like this (even on a holiday weekend). The vet had a worried look on her face the whole time she examined the pup, as it looked like the leg might not be saveable. Late last night, the vet called to tell me the leg is definitely going to have to be amputated. Had the owner taken her to the shelter right after the accident, we could have had her at our vet in time to save the leg. It's _so _unfair.

And to top it all off, this pup's already heartworm positive at barely 6-7 months old. Days like this just plain _suck. _

We named her Trinity. Here she is at the vets office...


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## Sabis mom

I get it. When I walked out with Shadow my heart was in pieces, because there was nothing I could do for the rest. Being female, I only got her because he thought she was dead anyway.
The box of pups on my doorstep at 10 at night infuriated me.
The sick pup tossed over my fence stunned me.
The last swap we did, installed fans and some new wire in exchange for some of the dogs, finished me. I'm standing there looking at 30 or so dogs, knowing I can only take 12, and that was overloading all of us. We took the worst off and prayed for the rest. At one point we had 6 fosters plus my own 3 in a 900 sq ft house with a tiny yard and me working 2 jobs.
My heart and soul just couldn't do it anymore. I needed a rest. Because like most, I discovered that no matter how many I took, they just keep coming. The lack of humanity in the human species never ceases to amaze me.


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## newlie

I will never understand it. Horrible! Horrible! Horrible!


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## osito23

Just wanted to say thank you for what you do. Rescue is not easy but you make a big difference for many people and dogs.


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## llombardo

When I see stuff like this it makes me wish I can do more for more dogs. I will never understand how anyone can let a dog suffer or not take care of it to begin with. It's just not in my nature and I really can't deal with people that do these things.


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## yuriy

People who let their dogs suffer this way should be criminally charged IMO.


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## newlie

Magwart, the only comfort I can offer is poor comfort, I'm afraid. Sometimes with all the suffering in the world, it seems hopeless to even try to do anything. I am not telling you anything that you don't already know, but even if we can't save every person or every animal, we can at least save one. Or two. Or in your case many. We do have that much power. And if every person just took it upon themselves to just save one, the world would be such a better place. 

Your Trinity went through terrible suffering in her life and now has to suffer through all the horrible repercussions. But I bet from now on, she will never again suffer from hunger or thirst, will never again be neglected or abused, will never again feel unloved or unwanted. And that is all only because of you, my dear.


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## mkmagu1

I'm glad you were able to get to and help this little girl out. I hope you will also bring her plight to those that enforce animal cruelty laws in your area.


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## Chip18

Well yes at times people suck! And yes again, no we can't save them all! 

And I know it's hard but whatever the circumstances "you" are able to make a huge difference in "this" dogs life!! 

Right place. right time and yes it is a shame that the dog had to continue to suffer for that length of time! If he was hit by a car...that says something about the owners?? And add in HW?? As harsh as it may sound... getting hit by that car may have been the best thing to happen to "this" dog in her entire life??

How is that for spin? No matter how it happened...you've done good!


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## Jenny720

After hearing so many terrible stories or seeing it first hand the cruelty and neglect it does start to wear you down. It is good to see the major difference one person can make. This pup was guided in the right direction- no doubt and for many reasons. This is when so much good eventually erases the bad.


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## Stonevintage

It seems as though the cost of vet care has doubled in the last few years. There is not a vet left in our area that will let you make payments unless you are very well established with them.

They will hand you a brochure for a company that makes loans for pet care. If your credit is good - you can borrow up to $500.00. The interest rate is extremely high and you wait several days for approval.

Even with pet insurance, you pay up front and are reimbursed later. Some have a pre-approval process for a particular illness or injury - but again, you are talking time for their review process.

Today, in order to be a responsible pet owner, you had better have about 3 grand in the bank to cover an emergency situation with your pet. If you try to arrange a payment schedule - they'll just hand you the brochure...... 

I have zero compassion for those who neglect their pets but for some - there is no where they can take their pet to get help in an emergency - if they're lucky a rescue can help but in most cases they have to surrender their pet. This whole cost issue is a major part of the problem for many pet owners.


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## pyratemom

I admire those who can do rescue work. I tried for awhile to work a training program at our local AS to get the dogs more adoptable but every time I left and came back and saw those same faces it broke my heart. I wanted to take them all in but I can't. Why do so many people get pets just to drop them over the fence at the shelter. Our shelter is no kill unless the dog is too ill to save or too aggressive to even work on but still that is no life for a dog. Some of them are so beautiful and their people still gave them away. It makes me cry for those poor dogs I can't help. You who rescue are angels.


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## Jenny720

Stonevintage said:


> It seems as though the cost of vet care has doubled in the last few years. There is not a vet left in our area that will let you make payments unless you are very well established with them.
> 
> They will hand you a brochure for a company that makes loans for pet care. If your credit is good - you can borrow up to $500.00. The interest rate is extremely high and you wait several days for approval.
> 
> Even with pet insurance, you pay up front and are reimbursed later. Some have a pre-approval process for a particular illness or injury - but again, you are talking time for their review process.
> 
> Today, in order to be a responsible pet owner, you had better have about 3 grand in the bank to cover an emergency situation with your pet. If you try to arrange a payment schedule - they'll just hand you the brochure......
> 
> I have zero compassion for those who neglect their pets but for some - there is no where they can take their pet to get help in an emergency - if they're lucky a rescue can help but in most cases they have to surrender their pet. This whole cost issue is a major part of the problem for many pet owners.



This is very true. It is important people to be established with a veterinarian sometimes it can 
make life so much easier. Many pet insurance plans give you an options of how much you want to pay for a plan. You have to plan ahead and sometimes there are loop holes but it is something. It is when pets get old is when those bills get higher. Its a terrifing thing when your pet gets sick and you dont have enough money to help them.. Its important that veternarians dont try to rip you off either because there are many out there that try to.


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## Augustine

Jenny720 said:


> This is very true. It is important people to be established with a veterinarian sometimes it can
> make life so much easier. Many pet insurance plans give you an options of how much you want to pay for a plan. You have to plan ahead and sometimes there are loop holes but it is something. It is when pets get old is when those bills get higher. Its a terrifing thing when your pet gets sick and you dont have enough money to help them.. Its important that veternarians dont try to rip you off either because there are many out there that try to.


The sad thing about pet insurance is that you STILL need to have a lot of money saved up in order to use it properly. If the insurance company paid for you, then it would be a different story. But instead, they require you to pay the full amount first (which is pointless if you can't afford to pay hefty vet bills in the first place), and then they give you a percent of that money back later.

I think it's a lot better to just save money whenever you can. That way people who aren't rich can (hopefully) have saved up enough money if anything bad ever happens to their pet, rather than wasting it all on insurance which requires you to been reasonably well off in the first place.

Anyways, to get back on topic - I of all people sympathize with people in the situation that Stonevintage mentioned. But there are still a lot of shoddy owners out there who literally couldn't care less about their pets. So, it's hard to tell whether it's a case of them not being able to acquire vet care, or if the owners just didn't want to bother.


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## Gretchen

yuriy said:


> People who let their dogs suffer this way should be criminally charged IMO.


 Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking. This person really needs to be evaluated. Sometimes I really hate that California has so many laws, but if in CA a dog was tethered for so long, this is against the law and the person could be charged. This is a law I agree with and maybe your state can adopt it too.


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## Stonevintage

Hypothetically speaking.... You, for whatever reason suddenly face a $2,500 emergency vet bill. They don't take payments. You don't know anyone that happens to have that kind of money to loan you, hours count. What are your options?


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## DTS

A few options would be starting a gofundme account and hope people are willing to help.. Getting care credit possibly. 
Or euthanasia.. 
Someone on my Facebook had a little mix dog weighing about 5-10lbs maybe.. It apparently fell off the bed and broke its leg somehow.. I don't know all the details but she posted they were at the vet because he had fallen off the bed.. A little while later she posted they had to PTS... I never asked why the couldn't just fix the leg or amputate... Guess it was cheaper to PTS and get a new dog from a shelter. Which in itself it's sad. 
I always wonder about that.. 
Sure I have $$ to take my dog to the vet.. But I don't have 3-5k laying around in case something very bad happens.. I don't know what I would do.. But I would do everything I could possibly think of to help my dogs survive, if it were in their best interests and they could be saved. 
I don't know if I could live with myself knowing I put my dog down, when they could have been saved, but I didn't have the money.


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## annabirdie

Thanks god for people like you. A GSD with an amputated leg can live a full happy and wonderful life.


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## Stonevintage

That's what I'm talking about. Thank you for your post. There are horrible bad people out there that neglect their pets - and there are the majority (I think) that just don't have the money and didn't plan to have that much money set aside and those that simply cannot. Does that mean they should never own a cat or dog?

There are a lot of people who cannot afford many things, but they manage to get a puppy or kitten and that is the best kind of comfort and love thru the hard times we all face at one time or another. Honestly - a vet bill that would have cost me $500.00 10 years ago is well over $1,500 today. Pets are no longer for anyone that cannot afford this. Such a sad situation....

I figured on the low side with my pup. She's a good keeper with no problems and does not eat a bunch. The extra money per month that she doesn't need in "B" rated dog food and supplements lets me pay for her pet insurance. It's hard, try to get a Friday appt with a vet now days in nice weather. They're out playing golf with all the Dr's!


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## srfwheat

Changing dog food can sometimes be rought on their stomachs.


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## newlie

Stonevintage said:


> Hypothetically speaking.... You, for whatever reason suddenly face a $2,500 emergency vet bill. They don't take payments. You don't know anyone that happens to have that kind of money to loan you, hours count. What are your options?


I know you are right in some cases, Stone, but I have to say there's a part of me that wants to snipe "Don't get a dog in the first place if you can't take care of it." And I don't mean that it has to have expensive dog food and all the extras, but you should be able to provide the basics, including routine medical care like heartworm prevention. That's probably not the right attitude to take, but that's how I feel. Now, as far as a large, unexpected bill, I can certainly see that a lot of people don't have the resources to come up with that kind of money. There are times, realistically speaking, when there is probably no alternative. But sometimes, I think it can also be just an easy way out. If a dog is hurt or sick, just turn it into a shelter and just get yourself another one.

For myself, I can only say that if I didn't have the money, I would get the money somehow, someway. I had a relative pass away several years ago and her two grown children contacted my elderly mother to say that they couldn't pay for the funeral. So, we all took up money and paid the money directly to the funeral home. The children contributed nothing. Yeah, catch me saying I didn't have the money to bury my mother! If I didn't have it, I would get it, someway, somehow. Why? Because it's my responsibility.


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## Nigel

I'm sorry Magwart, it truly sucks how animals end up with such crappy people. 

I miss our old vet, wish he never retired. He didn't exactly work like Dr. Jeff, but he priced very fairly for services, split larger bills if needed, and he has a lot of heart for both pets and people.


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## Stonevintage

newlie said:


> I know you are right in some cases, Stone, but I have to say there's a part of me that wants to snipe "Don't get a dog in the first place if you can't take care of it." And I don't mean that it has to have expensive dog food and all the extras, but you should be able to provide the basics, including routine medical care like heartworm prevention. That's probably not the right attitude to take, but that's how I feel. Now, as far as a large, unexpected bill, I can certainly see that a lot of people don't have the resources to come up with that kind of money. There are times, realistically speaking, when there is probably no alternative. But sometimes, I think it can also be just an easy way out. If a dog is hurt or sick, just turn it into a shelter and just get yourself another one.
> 
> For myself, I can only say that if I didn't have the money, I would get the money somehow, someway. I had a relative pass away several years ago and her two grown children contacted my elderly mother to say that they couldn't pay for the funeral. So, we all took up money and paid the money directly to the funeral home. The children contributed nothing. Yeah, catch me saying I didn't have the money to bury my mother! If I didn't have it, I would get it, someway, somehow. Why? Because it's my responsibility.


I totally agree with you Newlie. IMO, It shocks people on what the vet bills are today. They need to know and if they have not planned for an emergency and have the funds set aside, they may be in for a heart breaking situation.

I would want to "get the money from somewhere" too but I can't. My reality is, if there is an emergency situation I have to be ready and cover it. There is nowhere except "fund me" and that would take too much time in an emergency situation. You could end up with a situation just like the OP....

I think, in a lot of situations. The owners try to get the money from "somewhere" but did not pre-plan, just felt they would get it and pushed it to the back of their mind... - I used to live in a Disneyland world, where "someone" would always be there... but that's not the case - don't count on the unknown and unplanned that someone is going to bail you out with your pet - what they would do for you is different than what they would do for your pet (which they have no emotional attachment to) you have to be there and know you can cover it. That's being a responsible pet owner. So yea, I was serious when I said it takes very careful financial planning to be a pet owner today....


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## newlie

Stonevintage said:


> I totally agree with you Newlie. IMO, It shocks people on what the vet bills are today. They need to know and if they have not planned for an emergency and have the funds set aside, they may be in for a heart breaking situation.
> 
> I would want to "get the money from somewhere" too but I can't. My reality is, if there is an emergency situation I have to be ready and cover it. There is nowhere except "fund me" and that would take too much time in an emergency situation. You could end up with a situation just like the OP....
> 
> I think, in a lot of situations. The owners try to get the money from "somewhere" but did not pre-plan, just felt they would get it and pushed it to the back of their mind... - I used to live in a Disneyland world, where "someone" would always be there... but that's not the case - don't count on the unknown and unplanned that someone is going to bail you out with your pet - what they would do for you is different than what they would do for your pet (which they have no emotional attachment to) you have to be there and know you can cover it. That's being a responsible pet owner. So yea, I was serious when I said it takes very careful financial planning to be a pet owner today....


Agreed. An emergency fund is always best.


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## Stonevintage

newlie said:


> Agreed. An emergency fund is always best.


I don't know what the answer is. It's just the worst it's ever been with affordable pet ownership. From the food to the vet bills, everything's just getting to ramped up that it's getting prohibitive for many.

I would love to hear from some of the rescue people on this - they are there helping as much as they can but I would think they see the money issue increasing dramatically too.


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## Sabis mom

It's all indicative of how little value people place on animals, IMO.

They want a dog, they go get a dog. No thought or planning, because if it doesn't work out they can dump it and get a new one.

A purebred pup from a decent breeder will cost you at least $1000. 

Vaccinations around here are about $120, including the exam. A pup gets at least 4 sets in the first year.

Shadows license costs me $60? a year I think.

I was quoted $570 for her to be spayed, Sabi's cost me $960.

Food costs me about $75 a month for kibble, per dog.

When Shadow injured herself the bill ran up to over $600 in a blink, and that was a minor injury. 

HW meds, when I was using them-we don't have a problem here-were $75 a year.

To have Sabi PTS and her ashes returned cost somewhere around $600, so that's not cheap either.

Dogs are expensive. If people would stop treating dog ownership like getting new shoes we wouldn't have a problem. If you can't afford to feed your kids, don't get a dog. If you are unemployed, don't get a dog. Basically if your solution to dog issues is get a new one don't get a dog. 

I cultivate a good relationship with my vet, and I put aside a few dollars as I can for an emergency fund. Payday loans, title loans, whatever I have to do. I took these dogs into my home and I accepted responsibility for them. They are not to be tossed aside because it's inconvenient. Period.


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## newlie

Magwart said:


> I grabbed my keys to rush over there. Once I got to the shelter, I learned the injury happened almost _a full week ago_. She'd been suffering with a badly hurt leg and no vet care for 6 long days, living on a chain out in the heat and humidity, until her owner decided it was time to do something. She's so skinny that I suspect she's probably gone hungry far too often. She licked my fingers through the cage and pressed her head into my hand. When I sat on the floor, she was in my lap, leaning into me. She wants to snuggle and be held. She's _so _stinking sweet, even in pain. I cried.
> 
> Late last night, the vet called to tell me the leg is definitely going to have to be amputated. Had the owner taken her to the shelter right after the accident, we could have had her at our vet in time to save the leg. It's _so _unfair.
> 
> And to top it all off, this pup's already heartworm positive at barely 6-7 months old. Days like this just plain _suck. _
> 
> We named her Trinity. Here she is at the vets office...


Stone, I just went back and read the original post again thinking that maybe I had not been fair in my assessment. But no, this doesn't look like one of those cases of a person who cared, but just didn't have the money. He let that dog lay out there suffering for 6 days with a broken leg. Inexcusable.


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## llombardo

I have care credit as my back up. I actually have two accounts totaling about $12000.00 in credit. I have about $7000 open and I'm busting my butt to pay it off so its all open. I would completely freak out if I couldnt help one of my dogs. There are vets that are direct pay from some pet insurance companies, they have the option to set it up that way. I haven't found one yet, I'm always researching things so I'm prepared, but the pet insurance company says they are out there. I think that more vets should do it that way. It would make these things more affordable, pets would get better care and the vet would get paid. My last four vet bills in a row have been anywhere from $700.00-$2200.00. Brennan in one year cost me almost $10000.00, the thought of putting him to sleep never crossed my mind, not even for a second. All I wanted was for him to be his happy self again. Every time I watch him run and play I laugh to myself(otherwise I would cry) because those hips were pretty expensive but so worth it.


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## Stonevintage

So, between the routine maintenance first year, with price to purchase, vaccinations, heartworm and flea/tick preventatives, quality food, toys, leashes and collars for training, training classes, crates, insurance + about 2-3k for emergencies - you will not be a responsible dog owner if you can't cover this. Done adopt a dog.

Do you think they tell prospective pet owners this at the shelters, humane societies and rescues? Do they ask for a financial statement? Were these considerations vital even just a decade or two ago - NO! Things have changes and are unaware - it's a catch 22 for the dogs.


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## Sabis mom

Stonevintage said:


> So, between the routine maintenance first year, with price to purchase, vaccinations, heartworm and flea/tick preventatives, quality food, toys, leashes and collars for training, training classes, crates, insurance + about 2-3k for emergencies - you will not be a responsible dog owner if you can't cover this. Done adopt a dog.
> 
> Do you think they tell prospective pet owners this at the shelters, humane societies and rescues? Do they ask for a financial statement? Were these considerations vital even just a decade or two ago - NO! Things have changes and are unaware - it's a catch 22 for the dogs.


 Actually the Calgary SPCA has a cost breakdown for all pets posted, in the shelter and on the website. People just don't care.


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## Jenny720

Augustine said:


> The sad thing about pet insurance is that you STILL need to have a lot of money saved up in order to use it properly. If the insurance company paid for you, then it would be a different story. But instead, they require you to pay the full amount first (which is pointless if you can't afford to pay hefty vet bills in the first place), and then they give you a percent of that money back later.
> 
> I think it's a lot better to just save money whenever you can. That way people who aren't rich can (hopefully) have saved up enough money if anything bad ever happens to their pet, rather than wasting it all on insurance which requires you to been reasonably well off in the first place.
> 
> Anyways, to get back on topic - I of all people sympathize with people in the situation that Stonevintage mentioned. But there are still a lot of shoddy owners out there who literally couldn't care less about their pets. So, it's hard to tell whether it's a case of them not being able to acquire vet care, or if the owners just didn't want to bother.



Yes but something can happen tomorrow believe me life is filled with surprises. There are pet insurance that do pay on the spot. Have not used mine yet-trupanion and it is not nearly as expensive as people say. I just talked to someone who spent $10,000 on their dog's bill. It would nice to have that stashed under you pillow but that can take some time.


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## llombardo

Stonevintage said:


> So, between the routine maintenance first year, with price to purchase, vaccinations, heartworm and flea/tick preventatives, quality food, toys, leashes and collars for training, training classes, crates, insurance + about 2-3k for emergencies - you will not be a responsible dog owner if you can't cover this. Done adopt a dog.
> 
> Do you think they tell prospective pet owners this at the shelters, humane societies and rescues? Do they ask for a financial statement? Were these considerations vital even just a decade or two ago - NO! Things have changes and are unaware - it's a catch 22 for the dogs.


Some shelters offer free lifetime training, which can be a huge expense with some dogs, so that is kinda nice. I got Midnite at the shelter for $99, that included HW test, shots and neuter. I donated the leash and food back to them. It was like $50 for HW meds. At his 10 day follow up they gave him an exam and cover mefication for his ears and medication for loose poop. Midnite cost me less then $500 the first year. He hasn't cost me more then $1000 in three years. Misty is from the same shelter and she was $85. In 10 years she has cost me less then $2000.00 in vet bills. But don't worry Brennan is making up for all of them!!!


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## Stonevintage

Sabis mom said:


> Actually the Calgary SPCA has a cost breakdown for all pets posted, in the shelter and on the website. People just don't care.


So - what exists in Calgary must be the same everywhere.... - welcome to Disneyland....


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## Jenny720

llombardo said:


> I have care credit as my back up. I actually have two accounts totaling about $12000.00 in credit. I have about $7000 open and I'm busting my butt to pay it off so its all open. I would completely freak out if I couldnt help one of my dogs. There are vets that are direct pay from some pet insurance companies, they have the option to set it up that way. I haven't found one yet, I'm always researching things so I'm prepared, but the pet insurance company says they are out there. I think that more vets should do it that way. It would make these things more affordable, pets would get better care and the vet would get paid. My last four vet bills in a row have been anywhere from $700.00-$2200.00. Brennan in one year cost me almost $10000.00, the thought of putting him to sleep never crossed my mind, not even for a second. All I wanted was for him to be his happy self again. Every time I watch him run and play I laugh to myself(otherwise I would cry) because those hips were pretty expensive but so worth it.



Trupanion claims they pay directly. Have not needed to use them yet but this is one of the reasons why we choose this insurance and the payments can be low as you want to make it. I use it as a back up plan everyone needs one.


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## llombardo

Jenny720 said:


> Trupanion claims they pay directly. Have not needed to use them yet but this is one of the reasons why we choose this insurance and the payments can be low as you want to make it. I use it as a back up plan everyone needs one.


They only pay directly if the vet sets it up that way. You have to find a vet that does it this way otherwise you have to pay up front and they reimburse you.


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## Stonevintage

The bottom line's the same. If your vet won't take payments and your pet ins works on reimbursement only you need to have 2-3 grand set aside for emergencies. 

The pet insurance companies work in a reimbursement only basis because they know 1/2 or better of owners won't have this money and be forced to choose euthanasia. Otherwise, our premiums would be 5x as high. It's there so they make money while offering a product that many will be forced not to use because they don't have the up front ok for reimbursement in an emergency situation. 

I will look at Trupanion again tomorrow. I chose Petplan because they cover hd in GSD's with no waiting period from puppyhood for hip replacement (of the age it can be done) from the date of diagnosis as long as you cover your premiums which are set once per year. 

I just wish - the average person, simply wanting to adopt a pet, was provided with realistic costs before they adopted. THAT would eliminate any speculation that what happened in this situation wasn't someone that just didn't plan, didn't have the money from falling into this horrible gap with an injured puppy..... that was the only point I was trying to make. They're not all animal abusers.


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## Sabis mom

Stonevintage said:


> So - what exists in Calgary must be the same everywhere.... - welcome to Disneyland....


 
Every shelter I have been in has it posted, I also just googled how much does it cost to keep a dog. Tons of info. 

And no, rude human, I do not live in Disneyland. Since I worked 3 jobs to get through Shadows first year bills AND Sabs swimming therapy as well as feeding and caring for a bunch of fosters, which I went shy on sleep to get out in the first place, I am very clear on what care costs and how little people care!
The difference is when my dogs need something, they bloody well get it.


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## Stonevintage

Sabis mom said:


> Every shelter I have been in has it posted, I also just googled how much does it cost to keep a dog. Tons of info.
> 
> And no, rude human, I do not live in Disneyland. Since I worked 3 jobs to get through Shadows first year bills AND Sabs swimming therapy as well as feeding and caring for a bunch of fosters, which I went shy on sleep to get out in the first place, I am very clear on what care costs and how little people care!
> The difference is when my dogs need something, they bloody well get it.


After I read your post, I went to the Calgary SPCA site. I opened up 5 of the 8 information areas. Not one did I see anything but a quote of their specific adoption fee or their required training class fees. Which tab do I click on at their site that explains to owners their expected monthly costs for quality food, routine vaccinations, monthly flea/tick and heartworm medications, pet insurance premiums, crate leash and collar expenses and most importantly that they must have a couple of grand in the bank earmarked for emergency situations? That is the topic....


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## Jenny720

Yes our vet recommend this insurance. We had a very large vet bill between our 2 cats and dog bella who had congestive heart failure , 17 year old cat tumor removal nothing major, and to stitch another cat that needed surgery. For so many years we had no health issues with any of our pets then we got walloped all at once august,september and october. They say things happen in threes. We had to pay over $8,000 and it was not easy as life has many other hiccups. We ran out and got pet insurance right away when we got max. You always need to stash some cash, care credit or credit card and a good vet that can work with you and not rip you off but sometimes its just not enough.


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## Sabis mom

Stonevintage said:


> After I read your post, I went to the Calgary SPCA site. I opened up 5 of the 8 information areas. Not one did I see anything but a quote of their specific adoption fee or their required training class fees. Which tab do I click on at their site that explains to owners their expected monthly costs for quality food, routine vaccinations, monthly flea/tick and heartworm medications, pet insurance premiums, crate leash and collar expenses and most importantly that they must have a couple of grand in the bank earmarked for emergency situations? That is the topic....


 See this is the problem. I don't know so you need to tell me.
Click on the adoption tab and look for pet budget.
Or just google how much does it cost to keep a dog.


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## llombardo

Stonevintage said:


> After I read your post, I went to the Calgary SPCA site. I opened up 5 of the 8 information areas. Not one did I see anything but a quote of their specific adoption fee or their required training class fees. Which tab do I click on at their site that explains to owners their expected monthly costs for quality food, routine vaccinations, monthly flea/tick and heartworm medications, pet insurance premiums, crate leash and collar expenses and most importantly that they must have a couple of grand in the bank earmarked for emergency situations? That is the topic....


DOG BUDGET
For a spayed female, mixed breed, medium sized dog:

Minimum Cost Per Year (Approximate)
Food and Treats
12 bags of dog food(18kg) @ $45.00	$540.00
2 boxes biscuit treats per month @ 3.99	$95.76
8 cans dog food (397g) per month @ $1.99	$191.04
4 bullystick chews per month @ $6.00	$288.00
Veterinary Care
Yearly visit – exam and vaccinations	$120.00
Grooming
Spring bath and brush out	$60.00
License
City Of Calgary license fee	$37.00
Vacation
2 weeks dog care @ 25.00 per day	$350.00
Subtotal
$1,681.80
GST
$84.09
TOTAL
$1765.89
One Time Costs
Spaying (female) and tattoo (incld. w/ adoption from CHS)	$450.00
Food and water dishes	$20.00
Collar, leash and harness	$40.00
Brush and comb	$15.00
Toys – balls, frisbees, etc	$30.00
Crate/X-Pen	
$100.00

Subtotal
$655.00
GST
$32.75
TOTAL
$687.75
- See more at: Pet Budget - Calgary Humane Society


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## Stonevintage

This is a good list. I don't see where it lists flea/tick & heartworm monthly costs, monthly insurance premiums or vet fees for injury or illness (the latter two IMHO are what can devastate). 

I have several friends that are on fixed income that do own pets. They have no family to borrow from should a medical emergency occur. They are not bad people and they love their dogs. They are just poor and that's not a crime. Some skip medication they should be taking in order to care for their pets. They are risking cutting their life short in order to provide basics for their dog.

Perhaps my work experience has also prejudiced my opinion. I helped senior citizens for 15 years to qualify for tax subsidy on their houses so they wouldn't loose them for delinquent taxes. These are not bad people and they do care for their pets, their pets are everything to them.


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## newlie

Stonevintage said:


> This is a good list. I don't see where it lists flea/tick & heartworm monthly costs, monthly insurance premiums or vet fees for injury or illness (the latter two IMHO are what can devastate).
> 
> I have several friends that are on fixed income that do own pets. They have no family to borrow from should a medical emergency occur. They are not bad people and they love their dogs. They are just poor and that's not a crime. Some skip medication they should be taking in order to care for their pets. They are risking cutting their life short in order to provide basics for their dog.
> 
> Perhaps my work experience has also prejudiced my opinion. I helped senior citizens for 15 years to qualify for tax subsidy on their houses so they wouldn't loose them for delinquent taxes. These are not bad people and they do care for their pets, their pets are everything to them.


Stone, I think everybody knows that there are people on fixed incomes, etc, who love their dogs, but have to struggle to take care of them. There are a lot of people on this very forum who have to pinch pennies and go without so that their dogs can have what they need. But they DO it because they love their dogs and they know it is up to them to provide what the dogs need.

But there are other people who just plain don't care. Anyone who would let their dog lay suffering for six days with a broken leg before they dump it a shelter fits in that category.

I think having information posted about costs, while a good idea, is probably not going to have a great effect. People will either do their research beforehand or won't pay a bit of attention to it anyway because they are not planning on spending much money to take care of a dog. It doesn't cost much if you're only going to throw a little kibble to a dog every once in a while. There is that middle section of people, however, who want to do the right thing and just don't realize how expensive it can be. I am thinking particularly of very young people and older people here who don't have a lot of disposable income. And if it makes even a few people think twice, it would be worth it.


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## Stonevintage

newlie said:


> Stone, I think everybody knows that there are people on fixed incomes, etc, who love their dogs, but have to struggle to take care of them. There are a lot of people on this very forum who have to pinch pennies and go without so that their dogs can have what they need. But they DO it because they love their dogs and they know it is up to them to provide what the dogs need.
> 
> But there are other people who just plain don't care. Anyone who would let their dog lay suffering for six days with a broken leg before they dump it a shelter fits in that category.
> 
> I think having information posted about costs, while a good idea, is probably not going to have a great effect. People will either do their research beforehand or won't pay a bit of attention to it anyway because they are not planning on spending much money to take care of a dog. It doesn't cost much if you're only going to throw a little kibble to a dog every once in a while. There is that middle section of people, however, who want to do the right thing and just don't realize how expensive it can be. I am thinking particularly of very young people and older people here who don't have a lot of disposable income. And if it makes even a few people think twice, it would be worth it.


I agree. There are 3 sides to this coin.


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## middleofnowhere

There are people who care a lot; people who care quite a bit; people who are "it's a dog" - generally a wide spectrum of people who have dogs. 

There are more dogs in the USA than there are homes for them. So is a home on the lower end of the spectrum better than no home at all? How about a home in the mid-range of the spectrum?

I've had dogs for not quite all of my adult life. Sometimes I didn't have much money. I did always find a way to take care of my dogs. Not everyone can do this. They may have other obligations that come up - an injured child, an expensive illness in the family, an unexpected job loss on top of something else. 

Yes, it is frustrating and very sad to witness a case like this. It's frustrating for me to witness dogs that get nothing but food, water and shelter. It's hard, too, to witness the struggle people have when economics just don't work out for them for one reason or another.

I try to restrain myself from "shouldn't own a dog" thinking because I know a dog can be a true asset to someone's life whatever their economic circumstances. In my small town there is an apparently homeless man with two dogs. I would not deny him his dogs. I am hoping that he gets free vet care for his animals.


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## Sabis mom

middleofnowhere said:


> There are people who care a lot; people who care quite a bit; people who are "it's a dog" - generally a wide spectrum of people who have dogs.
> 
> There are more dogs in the USA than there are homes for them. So is a home on the lower end of the spectrum better than no home at all? How about a home in the mid-range of the spectrum?
> 
> I've had dogs for not quite all of my adult life. Sometimes I didn't have much money. I did always find a way to take care of my dogs. Not everyone can do this. They may have other obligations that come up - an injured child, an expensive illness in the family, an unexpected job loss on top of something else.
> 
> Yes, it is frustrating and very sad to witness a case like this. It's frustrating for me to witness dogs that get nothing but food, water and shelter. It's hard, too, to witness the struggle people have when economics just don't work out for them for one reason or another.
> 
> I try to restrain myself from "shouldn't own a dog" thinking because I know a dog can be a true asset to someone's life whatever their economic circumstances. *In my small town there is an apparently homeless man with two dogs. I would not deny him his dogs. I am hoping that he gets free vet care for his animals*.


 I feed a homeless guys dog, and I helped him arrange free vet care. He loves her, is homeless as a result of circumstances beyond his control. I met him when he was panhandling and sharing a sandwich with her. Once a week I meet him and drop off a small bag of food for her, and usually a home cooked meal for him. This is far different then those who would let their pets suffer while they bought beer.


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## Vega-gurl

I am a young person, with an extremely limited income. My dog gets top quality kibble, plenty of exercise, and has more toys then she could hope to play with. I'm currently working off a $600 vet bill.
Yes, sometimes it is extremely hard to have a dog, but the love my pooch returns to me tenfold is worth every penny I have to scrap together for us to be comfortable. I have skipped buying food/house supplies for myself so I can buy quality dog food. There are many low income clinics, trainings and outreach programs in my area, that makes dog ownership more accessible. 
Sure, it would be easy to say people shouldn't have dogs if they can't perfectly afford it, but what about all the people who have kids they can't quite afford? Should it be that if you can't send your kids to the top school and feed them super organic magic food that you can't have them? No, that would be silly. Kids are gifts, and so are dogs. Yes, its a challenge, and yes, there are **** people out there who can't spare a thought about the actual care of their animals, but there are so so so so many more of us who do our very best no matter what to do the best in our given circumstances. It would be unfair, and just as problematic to say we can't have dogs because we are rolling in dough/living in the way you think is best. 
Dogs are a cost. I don't dispute that. When I adopted my furbaby, I had some back up funds. Now? like so many people I hit some hard times. My hours got cut at work, rent is sky rocketing here in the PNW, school costs and emergency vet bills have wiped me out. Should I dump my dog because I'm struggling to make ends meet? There are so so so many people who already do that. If fact, thats what happened to Vega before. I have had dogs my whole life, plus did even more research into ownership before I decided I could justify bringing a dog into my life. 
Pet ownership is a balancing act. There is also no way to fully predict what might happen when having a dog. It would be nice if people did more research in these things before making the choice of having a dog. It would also be nice to stop being lumped into the "doesn't actually care about their dog because poor" group. There is always more to meet the eye with people lives. 
That being said, I REALLY REALLY WISH people would stop hurting dogs. They are scum. 
OP- I think it is incredible that you could rescue and help that beautiful puppy. I hope she can find a good home soon.


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## newlie

Vega-gurl said:


> I am a young person, with an extremely limited income. My dog gets top quality kibble, plenty of exercise, and has more toys then she could hope to play with. I'm currently working off a $600 vet bill.
> Yes, sometimes it is extremely hard to have a dog, but the love my pooch returns to me tenfold is worth every penny I have to scrap together for us to be comfortable. I have skipped buying food/house supplies for myself so I can buy quality dog food. There are many low income clinics, trainings and outreach programs in my area, that makes dog ownership more accessible.
> Sure, it would be easy to say people shouldn't have dogs if they can't perfectly afford it, but what about all the people who have kids they can't quite afford? Should it be that if you can't send your kids to the top school and feed them super organic magic food that you can't have them? No, that would be silly. Kids are gifts, and so are dogs. Yes, its a challenge, and yes, there are **** people out there who can't spare a thought about the actual care of their animals, but there are so so so so many more of us who do our very best no matter what to do the best in our given circumstances. It would be unfair, and just as problematic to say we can't have dogs because we are rolling in dough/living in the way you think is best.
> Dogs are a cost. I don't dispute that. When I adopted my furbaby, I had some back up funds. Now? like so many people I hit some hard times. My hours got cut at work, rent is sky rocketing here in the PNW, school costs and emergency vet bills have wiped me out. Should I dump my dog because I'm struggling to make ends meet? There are so so so many people who already do that. If fact, thats what happened to Vega before. I have had dogs my whole life, plus did even more research into ownership before I decided I could justify bringing a dog into my life.
> Pet ownership is a balancing act. There is also no way to fully predict what might happen when having a dog. It would be nice if people did more research in these things before making the choice of having a dog. It would also be nice to stop being lumped into the "doesn't actually care about their dog because poor" group. There is always more to meet the eye with people lives.
> That being said, I REALLY REALLY WISH people would stop hurting dogs. They are scum.
> OP- I think it is incredible that you could rescue and help that beautiful puppy. I hope she can find a good home soon.


Whoa there! I don't think that you read the thread from start to finish or maybe I expressed myself badly, but my quarrel is not with you. I said that ideally, people really should be able to provide the *basics *before they adopt a dog much less have a child, for goodness sakes. It doesn't have to be expensive food, designer outfits or massages at a spa, I am talking about food, water, shelter and routine medical care. And you are right, sometimes people already have a dog and bad things happen. They lose their jobs or their car breaks down or run into any number of unexpected expenses. But when this happens, they step up to the plate, just like you. They pinch pennies to make it work or in some cases where there is no other option, they give up the dog, but they do it responsibly. They looks for ways to rehome, they contact rescue groups, etc, to try to make sure the dog is safe before they let go.

Dogs don't care whether you are rich or poor and neither do I. No, my issue is with people who are negligent or irresponsible and then try to use the excuse of no money. Like the people who starved their adult German Shepherd for so long, he weighed 35 pounds and he should have weighed more like 80 pounds. Well, you know, if you can't afford to give your dog a meal every once in a while, it's probably not very wise to adopt one. And if you saw the start of this thread, the people who let their dog suffer with a broken leg for 6 days before they dumped it in a shelter. I'm sure their excuse was no money, too. I don't buy it. If the excuse was no money, they could have brought it into the shelter on day one. What, were they expecting to win the lottery so they could pay for the surgery? Did they think the dog's leg was going to magically heal itself? No, the fact of the matter is that they just didn't care.


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## Chip18

Uh oh... I believe there is no fundamental disagreement here?? This time unlike the last time I used this (again sorry Stonevintage )

I believe it is appropriate! 









Did I get it right???


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## wick

llombardo said:


> DOG BUDGET
> For a spayed female, mixed breed, medium sized dog:
> 
> Minimum Cost Per Year (Approximate)
> Food and Treats
> 12 bags of dog food(18kg) @ $45.00	$540.00
> 2 boxes biscuit treats per month @ 3.99	$95.76
> 8 cans dog food (397g) per month @ $1.99	$191.04
> 4 bullystick chews per month @ $6.00	$288.00
> Veterinary Care
> Yearly visit – exam and vaccinations	$120.00
> Grooming
> Spring bath and brush out	$60.00
> License
> City Of Calgary license fee	$37.00
> Vacation
> 2 weeks dog care @ 25.00 per day	$350.00
> Subtotal
> $1,681.80
> GST
> $84.09
> TOTAL
> $1765.89
> One Time Costs
> Spaying (female) and tattoo (incld. w/ adoption from CHS)	$450.00
> Food and water dishes	$20.00
> Collar, leash and harness	$40.00
> Brush and comb	$15.00
> Toys – balls, frisbees, etc	$30.00
> Crate/X-Pen
> $100.00
> 
> Subtotal
> $655.00
> GST
> $32.75
> TOTAL
> $687.75
> - See more at: Pet Budget - Calgary Humane Society


Oh man if only $30 was all I spent on Wicks toys   more like a lifetime addiction to the pet section of every grocery store for the rest of my life!!! :help:


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## Debanneball

wick said:


> Oh man if only $30 was all I spent on Wicks toys   more like a lifetime addiction to the pet section of every grocery store for the rest of my life!!! :help:


The top line said 'per year', funny, I think the toys should be 'per pet store visit' with the cost of them!!


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## The Wild Bunch

Magwart. I haven't read the entire thread and don't have a comment about money or how much it takes to care for a pet per year etc. Sadly there many many who don't care and see these beautiful creatures as a possession and not a life. 

I simply wanted to say, that I heard you. I have been there. I cried when I read this because I felt deep in my bones exactly what you must have been feeling when poor Trinity pushed her body into yours. THANK YOU for rescuing her from the very bottom of my heart!!

Rescue is a blessing, and therefore, so are you. 

Hugs and prayer for you and trinity both!


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## newlie

Chip18 said:


> Uh oh... I believe there is no fundamental disagreement here?? This time unlike the last time I used this (again sorry Stonevintage )
> 
> I believe it is appropriate!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did I get it right???


Right by me, lol. I am a lover not a fighter. (Well, most of the time.)


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## LaRen616

People do suck but then there are wonderful people like you that go above and beyond to help!

Thank you for helping this young lady!

I have no idea how people can neglect an animal, it's absolutely disgusting. The thought of her being in pain for 6 days without any help makes furious and very sad. These poor animals can't help themselves and they deserve owners that will do everything they can to take care of them.


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## Magwart

Thanks for all the supportive messages. I really appreciate them.

As to law enforcement question, we do have a good cruelty statute, which creates possible misdemeanor or even felony charges for failing to provide vet care to a suffering animal....but our AC never enforces that statute.

Poverty doesn't explain what happened to Trinity. Many poor people find a way to take FAR better care of their dogs than this. 

This owner allowed the pup to* get hit by a car*, then *left her outside **on a chain in agony, with a completely dislocated elbow and broken bones* *FOR SIX DAYS* -- during a week when the heat index was near 100 degrees F. This isn't a stoic dog, by the way -- she cries loudly every time her movement disturbs the unusable leg, even on pain meds. The elbow joint is completely separated, and the leg hangs uselessly, so there's no way to not know this is a bad, bad injury. I cringe when I think about her having to maneuver the leg over and through a chain on the ground, without pain meds. She would have been screaming. 

She could have been surrendered to the shelter the day it happened, and she'd have received pain relief within hours of the injury--they are open 7 days a week, and have a vet and tech there every day. Had they done that, we'd have been able to get her to our vet in time to save the leg too.


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## WateryTart

I'm so sorry for what happened to that girl. It's inexcusable. Accidents happen and so do tough finances, but not at least calling the vet and asking what to do given the accident, showing they cared about Trinity - that's the truly horrible part of it.


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## Vega-gurl

newlie said:


> Whoa there! I don't think that you read the thread from start to finish or maybe I expressed myself badly, but my quarrel is not with you. I said that ideally, people really should be able to provide the *basics *before they adopt a dog much less have a child, for goodness sakes. It doesn't have to be expensive food, designer outfits or massages at a spa, I am talking about food, water, shelter and routine medical care. And you are right, sometimes people already have a dog and bad things happen. They lose their jobs or their car breaks down or run into any number of unexpected expenses. But when this happens, they step up to the plate, just like you. They pinch pennies to make it work or in some cases where there is no other option, they give up the dog, but they do it responsibly. They looks for ways to rehome, they contact rescue groups, etc, to try to make sure the dog is safe before they let go.
> 
> Dogs don't care whether you are rich or poor and neither do I. No, my issue is with people who are negligent or irresponsible and then try to use the excuse of no money. Like the people who starved their adult German Shepherd for so long, he weighed 35 pounds and he should have weighed more like 80 pounds. Well, you know, if you can't afford to give your dog a meal every once in a while, it's probably not very wise to adopt one. And if you saw the start of this thread, the people who let their dog suffer with a broken leg for 6 days before they dumped it in a shelter. I'm sure their excuse was no money, too. I don't buy it. If the excuse was no money, they could have brought it into the shelter on day one. What, were they expecting to win the lottery so they could pay for the surgery? Did they think the dog's leg was going to magically heal itself? No, the fact of the matter is that they just didn't care.


I'm really really sorry I came across as attacking or angry, that was not my intention. I hadn't slept much and had already had a discussion with someone who believed that if you can't afford to do anything to the nines, you don't deserve anything at all. Even though I saw that this thread was about a horribly abused dog, I think my brain just sorta latched on to the money thing about owning dogs, so I didn't think to clearly about what I was saying or how I said it. Again, I apologize.:surrender:
I do agree completely that people should think about about their finances before deciding to bring home a dog. It is inexcusable and terrible for a person to abuse a dog, but to leave one in so much pain and suffering is truly evil. I will never, ever understand how humans can treat animals-any animals-in such a terrible manner.


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## newlie

Vega-gurl said:


> I'm really really sorry I came across as attacking or angry, that was not my intention. I hadn't slept much and had already had a discussion with someone who believed that if you can't afford to do anything to the nines, you don't deserve anything at all. Even though I saw that this thread was about a horribly abused dog, I think my brain just sorta latched on to the money thing about owning dogs, so I didn't think to clearly about what I was saying or how I said it. Again, I apologize.:surrender:
> I do agree completely that people should think about about their finances before deciding to bring home a dog. It is inexcusable and terrible for a person to abuse a dog, but to leave one in so much pain and suffering is truly evil. I will never, ever understand how humans can treat animals-any animals-in such a terrible manner.


That's quite alright, we all have our bad days, but I could tell from the things you said about your dog that we were really on the same page. You are one of the "good guys," so you've got nothing to fear from me.


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## Vega-gurl

newlie said:


> That's quite alright, we all have our bad days, but I could tell from the things you said about your dog that we were really on the same page. You are one of the "good guys," so you've got nothing to fear from me.


Thanks Newlie, I'm glad we are on the same page. 
BTW-What rescue are you with? or is it a private foster network you belong too? I would love to help more GSDs in need (once such a thing is feasible, of course), but really don't know where I would even start. Thanks!


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## newlie

Hahaha! I am not with a rescue group or anything, Vega, I'm just a hothead who can't stand to see animals (or people) mistreated. I have adopted two different rescues though, Max who is gone now, and my current boy, Newlie. I took care of my husband for some years before he passed away in December of last year, and am still trying to recover and finish settling his estate, but I do think at some point, I would like to do something as well. Why don't you start a new thread and give your location, I think we have any number of people on this forum working with rescues and in shelters and I bet somebody can point you in the right direction.


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## Vega-gurl

Thanks! I will do just that!


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