# Would like info on Il. area working GSD breeders



## GoLd (Feb 12, 2009)

Hello, 

I have been researching buying a new dog for both a family dog as well as a personal protection dog, and have come to the conclusion that a GSD is the best choice for my needs. I will list the attributes that I am most interested in, in the hope that this community can help me to identify the best suited breeder for what I am looking for.

My criteria is;

Good with small children, as my wife and I plan to start a family soon.

Good with older dogs, we have a nine year old mixed breed male (55 lbs) who was rescued from a shelter. He still has the energy of/and acts like a puppy









Activity needs. We live in a condo and have no fenced yard but do live on a retention pond/lake with plenty of room to run (the lake is 1.3 miles in circumference). Our current dog spends a minimum of an hour outside a day, and I can trust him to run off the leash without worry of him running away. There are dozens of other dogs and their owners on the lake, its very much a dog friendly community. 

I need a naturally protective dog, I own a small recycling business (not a junk yard) and will be taking the new dog with me to work, not as a guard dog but as a deterrent. I often have to work late by myself and feel very vulnerable as we do have alot of cash on hand. I was recently surprised by 2 burglers who thankfully ran away after gaining entry, and I would like to not be surprised agian!

I need a calm even tempered dog as there are forklifts, machinery, trucks, people etc. This is where my current dog fails, unfortunatley he gets upset at all the noise and commotion, and it isn't fair to him to stress him like that.

Cost is a factor.

Within 300 miles of Chicago, IL. ( I'm not comfortable buying a dog without meeting the breeders and parents )

For all the reasons stated above, I am only interested in a quality animal to be a part of my family and business and thats why I am asking for help from what appears to be a very knowledgeable community.

I am essentially looking for an animal that I can trust to be an extension of myself, to help me love, care for and protect my most valuable possesions.

Thanks in advance

Greg


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Here are a few nearby breeders. These are ones I found when I researched when I was looking into getting a puppy. 

Mittelwest
http://www.mittelwest.com/

Angels in Disguise
http://www.angelsindisguise.us/

Gutten Haus 
http://www.guttenhauskennels.com/default.asp

Vollmond
http://www.vollmondshepherds.com/


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: GoLdCost is a factor.


It would help to know how much. (Because if you are only looking to spend say $500, there is no reason for us to recommend "GOOD" breeders we know, as they are usually at least double that.)

Welcome to the board.


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## GoLd (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks for the quick reply Cc,

I have researched Mittelwest online and while I have read nothing but good reviews about them, I am a little unsure if showline breeds are the best fit for me. This is the first I have heard of Gutten Haus and Vollmond and any information would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Greg


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## GoLd (Feb 12, 2009)

BlackGSD,

I just can't see myself spending more than $2,000, considering some of the best dogs I've owned were free (rescued). But I have never had any dogs that I expected to be anything other than good family members before. This is my first time looking for specific attributtes in a dog and thats why I am asking for the help of more knowlegeable people.

Thanks,

Greg


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: GoLd
> I have researched Mittelwest online and while I have read nothing but good reviews about them, I am a little unsure if showline breeds are the best fit for me.


Why do you think showline might not be good? I know Mittelwest turns out a lot of Schutzhund, SAR, ringsport, police K9 and other working dogs. I have a German showline dog myself (not Mittelwest although I ALMOST bought a puppy from them) and her parents/grandparents etc were all Schutzhund and protection dogs, but she is a great family dog and very solid nerves, she is very calm and does not get upset by loud noises, people or strange things going on around her, she is great with kids and other dogs but she is very alert and protective when necessary. 

I have talked to someone from Gutten Haus and they seem very good, They have a lot of working dogs, protection dogs and SAR dogs as well as therapy dogs and such. They also seemed very knowledgeable and helpful when I talked to them. I don't think I spoke to anyone from Vollmond, just bookmarked the website because they were nearby and seemed to be good breeders.

Whatever breeder you decide to go with, I would explain in depth exactly what you are looking for as far as what you want to do with the dog, the temperament you're looking for and so on. A good breeder should be able to help you pick the best puppy for your expectations if you give them enough information on what you want.


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## GoLd (Feb 12, 2009)

Cc,

Really the only two reasons I'm unsure of Mittelwest is;

a) Price, I have read posts which indicate that their dogs run from $3,500 and up

b) I was under the impression from my research that with showline breeds the emphisis is more for appearance, intelligence and aesthetics whereas working breeds are bred more for skill sets such as police dogs and SAR.

I am not under the impression that showlines are not great family dogs, and I am certianly happy to find that I'm incorrect about my presumptions of showline dogs. I'm here to learn









BlackGSD thanks for the welcome, I've been a lurker here for a few weeks reading as many forum posts as I could and your signature was everywhere. thanks for your input.

Thanks 

Greg


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## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

Although I agree that showlines can do the work, they *tend* (and this is a broad generalization) to be less suited for work than working line shepherds. Not that they can not be trained to do it, they were simply not bred with that priority. That is not to say that there aren't some incredible showlines in schutzhund, etc.

Any line of German Shepherd, showline or working line will be a deterrent just from appearance. However, showlines tend to be more expensive than working lines, and if you are looking for something under $2000 I would look at working lines. Most working line puppies are $1000-$2000, although an older trained puppy or dog will cost more. Good breeders breed for solid nerves, so loud noises should not stress out a well bred shepherd.

Although I do not have any recommendations I am sure many members of this board do. Good luck on your puppy/dog hunt!


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## GoLd (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks Jkim!

Greg


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Actually, showline dogs can be just as protective of family and home....the biggest challenge in training is to get the "up" attitude in obedience for points with many showlines...(BROAD generalization!!)....for a family dog, you may be fine though if that is the "look" you want.

http://www.drachefeld.com is reasonably priced for companion dogs, and may be within your distance 

there are some IL breeders active here - Trish from Triton is in IL, but no pups right now (unless Nick is too tough on the Bengals LOL!!)

Good luck!

Lee


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## GoLd (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks Lee,

Unfortunatley Drachfeld is roughly 450 miles away, 6-7 hours one way drive. They do have beautiful dogs though but to far away to visit. Triton is on a short list of possibles that I researched, and was waiting to see if the community members recommended them based on my needs. I'm unsure of what you meant by this statement


> Quote:the biggest challenge in training is to get the "up" attitude in obedience for points with many showlines


Thanks,

Greg


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think your assessment of Mittelwest is fair. No reason you have to get a show line dog, and yes, their dogs are expensive.

When I was looking at working lines, Bill Kulla/Geistwasser kennel was at the top of my list. Marengo, IL

http://www.kulladogs.com


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## GoLd (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks Liesje,

Kulla is also on my short list, agian I was waiting to have them recommended based on my needs by people like yourself.

Thanks,

Greg


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: GoLdThanks Lee,
> 
> Unfortunatley Drachfeld is roughly 450 miles away, 6-7 hours one way drive. They do have beautiful dogs though but to far away to visit. Triton is on a short list of possibles that I researched, and was waiting to see if the community members recommended them based on my needs. I'm unsure of what you meant by this statement
> 
> ...


This was only a comment as to why most people whose priority is sport competition chose working lines - it is not due to a lack of drive for protection work, but usually less toy drive, or interest in the obedience phase.... Hey, I have working lines. I am not saying you should not get working lines - only that there are different strengths and weaknesses, and your needs should dictate what type of pup you get. I have seen plenty of showlines who are protective of their home and family. You can get a lower drive working line pup or a showline pup and do fine with either.

Lee


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## GoLd (Feb 12, 2009)

Lee,

Thanks for clarifying, I am unfamiliar with the world of dog competition. I do think that heavy obedience training is a must for me, is there a preference in which type (show line or working line) dog is best suited for obedience training? And are there higher energy levels in working lines vs. show lines?

Thanks,

Greg


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I know Mittelwest charges about half the cost for long coated pups if that is something you might be interested in. If you go to Guttenhaus' website they have some pups available now listed.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Obedience for house manners and social interaction are well within the capability of all types of GSDs....competition obedience, with goals of high points is another matter...energy levels vary even within litters. Obedience training for fun, for a hobby is easier with a higher drive dog. 

Lee


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## justde (Oct 4, 2000)

I highly recommend Landschaft Kennel. I have 2 from Marcy that I trained to SchH3...couldn't be happier. She's great to work with.
http://www.landschaftkennels.com


Sue


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## GoLd (Feb 12, 2009)

Cc,

I have no objection to long coated GSD's, unless someone can provide a reason not related to appearance that makes them less desirable? Also I visited the Gutten Haus site, and have looked through this forum (choosing a breeder) my only concern is that I have not seen their name mentioned here before, and I am hoping to get a concensus opinion of breeders. So please if anyone has an opinion of Gutten Haus please either PM me or post here (in no way am I discounting your opinion Cc I would just like there to be several referrals). I am planning to start calling breeders this weekend and getting a dog immediately is not nearly as big of a priority to me as getting the right dog from the right breeder. I plan on relying on the breeder to pick the dog for me, so me picking the right breeder is of paramount importance.

Lee,

I have a strong suspicion that my definition of obedience training is your definition of hobby obedience training, I have no intention of participating in competition but I do intend to spend years attending obedience training with this dog. Now that leads me to another question does high drive equate to higher energy level?

Thanks,

Greg


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Greg are you looking for a puppy or an adult? There are some breeders that may sell/rehome their trained females upon retirement from breeding. With a pup it would be a while before they would be mature enough to be a deterrent.


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## jimmym1981 (Dec 5, 2008)

i definately second landschaft kennels!!! All of their dogs are great working dogs. Ive seen a bunch of them in action, and they are serious!!!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Ok, am I the only one concerned about the fact that the OP is going to let the dog run loose to possibly get killed on the road, bite joggers, get into dog fights, chase deer, or otherwise be a general nuisance? Just from the info given, I would not recommend any dog for this person.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: ElaineOk, am I the only one concerned about the fact that the OP is going to let the dog run loose to possibly get killed on the road, bite joggers, get into dog fights, chase deer, or otherwise be a general nuisance? Just from the info given, I would not recommend any dog for this person.


Could it be possible that people *assume* the current dog is off leash reliable and the OP knows that a puppy will need training to be off leash reliable as well? My dogs are frequently off lead.


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## emjworks05 (May 30, 2008)

I didn't read anywhere where it says the OP will let the pup run loose, he said that he lets his current dog (which i believe he said is nine?) run loose because he can trust him not to run off. I also let my 2 1/2 almost 3 yo run loose with out a lead sometimes, she has a rock solid recall, so i defiantly trust her not to run off.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

In IL I would recommend many of those already listed:
Landschaft
Triton
Geistwasser (Bill Kulla)

Those are all working line.

Show vs working line is personal preference. A working line is going to typically be higher drive and higher energy than a working line. Also typically more resilient and of stronger character. But also more demanding in terms of requiring physical exercise, mental stimulation and quality one-on-one time with the owners. Of course, these are things that EVERY dog, especially GSDs, need, regardless of bloodline. The working lines are just a bit more high maintenance in those areas.

They are also the most suited for competitive venues (other than conformation showing), protection and other real-world type work. And they can make excellent companions too, in the right home.

Show lines are a bit more laid back, and one of sound nerve and temperament makes an excellent pet too, and is in reality more along the lines of what most people getting GSDs are ready to handle.

If you're unsure on show vs working for your lifestyle, my suggestion would be to get out and spend some time interacting with representatives of both types. Local SchH clubs are a great way to typically see dogs of working lines and German show lines. Once you get some first hand experience with several different dogs of both types, and talk with their owners a bit, you'll have more knowledge to go by deciding which is the best fit for you.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

I highly recommend http://www.kulladogs.com

Bill and Jen breed only SchH titled and proven dogs and have the parent's on site and work them so they are very familiar with the in's and out's of their temperaments. I have seen many breedings out of their dogs and am very impressed with what they produce. I also know that they are very supportive with their puppy buyers. 

Also, sending you a pm


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## Superpup (Jun 7, 2007)

I recommend Trish Campbell from Triton Kennels. I have a puppy from her and could not be more pleased. She has always been very helpful and knows "her stuff"


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## luvsables (May 7, 2007)

I also highly recommend Bill Kulla. Excellent breeder and dogs. I too live in a condo and I have 2 gsds (one from Bill Kulla, super super young male) They are excellent at picking the right pup for you and will always be there for the life of the pup and owner. They work and title all thier dogs and follow the SV guidelines when breeding. I know they have a litter due very soon and the parents are just super.

Here is a pic of my young male Iso, at 10 mo old. I also sent you a pm


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

In addition to the breeders already mentioned you may want to touch base with Jason of http://www.vonsidener.com/ . He is located in Central Illinois and may be able to help you, even if he does not have a puppy that will be suited for you.

I know both Trish of Triton (already mentioned) and Jason. Both are ethical breeders that care a lot about the match between pup and owner and will be able to help steer you in the right direction.

Good luck in your puppy search!


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## GoLd (Feb 12, 2009)

Hi everyone,

Thank you for all the replies and please keep them comming as needed, I understand that any dog I bring home will a life long commitment and I don't take this lightly in the least. I will try and answer as many of these replies as I can.

Amaruq,



> Quote:Greg are you looking for a puppy or an adult? There are some breeders that may sell/rehome their trained females upon retirement from breeding. With a pup it would be a while before they would be mature enough to be a deterrent.


I am looking for a pup. My belief is that by finding the right breeder that can match me with a dog that posesses solid genetic predisposition to go with what I am expecting in a dog. That it will provide me with a solid foundation to build upon. Whereas with my current dog and previous dog who were rescues, both of which were/are great dogs, I inherited some negative personality and emotional aspects that I would like to avoid, for the sole reason that I expect more from a new dog than I did from either of my rescues. 

The idea of a dog as a deterent is secondary to how it interacts with my family, lifestyle and expectations. This is also the reason I want a puppy who will be immersed in my lifestyle from day 1 which, I hope, will acclimate him and limit any surprises.

Elaine



> Quote:Ok, am I the only one concerned about the fact that the OP is going to let the dog run loose to possibly get killed on the road, bite joggers, get into dog fights, chase deer, or otherwise be a general nuisance? Just from the info given, I would not recommend any dog for this person.


I appreciate your concern, I have no intention of just letting a new dog run free without a long period of training and developing a trust that a new dog will not be a danger to himself or others. I do have a 9 year old white shepherd mix who I got as a puppy, and from day one I started him off the leash in certian situations. I was confident to do this because of where I chose to do it, and the fact that as a puppy, Moe, had a bad case of stubbiness. Think of a fire hydrant walking on KFC chicken legs so there was no chance he could get near any danger before I could catch up to him. Now, after years of training, there is nowhere that I can't take Moe without the highest level of confidence that he will not run away, never has and never will. The same goes for any kind of aggression. My hope is that I will be able have the same relationship and confidence in a new dog (after trust in that is established). If that turns out not to be the case then there's always a long leash









To the rest of you who offered refferals to the various breeders, thank you. I also think that visiting a few clubs will be in my future.

Thanks,

Greg


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## [email protected] (Apr 24, 2011)

I would high recommend Lundborg-land German Shepherds.
Great quality and temperamanent. Linda Lundborg's lines are exceptionally beautiful. 
I have a 17 month GS 'coat' from her. Marvelous dog and so trainable, beautful and gentle. Linda's dogs are 'Show and Sch'.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Amaruq said:


> Could it be possible that people *assume* the current dog is off leash reliable and the OP knows that a puppy will need training to be off leash reliable as well? My dogs are frequently off lead.


:thumbup:


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