# Another Jerk episode...



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So, I had Oscar out today. He is 17 months old, and he was awesome. 

Except PetsMart couldn't handle his grooming appointment. :blush:

So I was going to do it myself at PetCo, but the lady there was able to do it. He was fine. 

Anyhow, coming out of there, there were some chairs up front with people and dogs, and I had to walk past to get to the counters to pay. A little monster dog, came shooting out from under one of the chairs on a leash that was much too long, barking and snarling at Oscar.

I told him to leave it and marched on by. The person at the other end of the lead, did contain her dog and then they started laughing and joking about how the dog would be a snack for mine. 

I know, I shouldn't have gotten pissed, but I did. I walked over there, and the best I could do was to say to Oscar, "See, that dog wants to make a snack out of you." Then we marched back into line, where the other couple complement his good behavior. 

On the way home, I was still pretty peeved. The top of the hour had come and gone, so, since I thought it was a training class, I called the store and asked to talk to the trainer of the class they had a little while ago. The person was befuddled. So I said they had chairs and people and dogs in the front of the store. Oh, the adoption something or other. 

Yeah, probably, ok, can I talk to the lady in charge of that?

Yeah, I'll see. 

She came on the line, and I explained that I was the lady with the GSD that someone's dog had charged out toward. 

She said yes. 

I told her she should tell her people not to laugh and joke about snacks when that happens, they should apologize and say they are working on training for that. Because if one of our dogs does attack a dog that comes out like that there is liability. And big dog people don't find it funny. 

She thanked me and I told her to have a nice day.

But, I failed to say what really was getting me. Little dogs are clowns. Lots of them. When people laugh at them, rather than correct behavior, it reinforces it. I should have said that. There was no calling back. 

Ah well. One person is just a drop in the bucket anyway. 

It would be nice if breeders and rescues and shelters and HSUS, would actually work on changing people's mindsets about some things, instead of focusing on glands and gonads. Maybe that little dog was in need of adoption because someone thought a lot of annoying behaviors were cute, and didn't bother to train it. 

LITTLE DOGS NEED TRAINING TOO!!! 

Ok, rant over.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

They aren't taking the concept of a "dog" seriously. I spent years working with a people reactive rescue and I envied people with docile dogs. My neighbor has an adorable little white fluffball who I liked as a puppy. I went inside her house to talk to her, sat down, and the dog, which is now an adult, began snarling and snapping at me the moment I touched it. I pulled my hand back and asked her what happened to her dog? Her child said, Daddy has been teaching our dog to play Tiger. The mom was embarrassed and I left without saying much. She wants a play date with our puppy and I didn't respond. Her child can come over to play with my dogs but I'm not taking either of mine to their house. What goes through people's heads when they encourage small dogs to be aggressive and think it's cute or worse, blame my dogs because they are "big" and an "aggressive breed?" They don't understand that dogs need training no matter what size or breed. Frankly, little biting, snarly dogs scare me because they can create a dangerous situation that I could be blamed for.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

it's frustrating... my aunt has a teacup Maltese that she spent $3k on but is hesitant to invest $300 on training classes. she's made every excuse for her dog and her pocket book despite the dogs barking, jumping, biting, snarling and lack of response to any commands or reprimands. "too small" comes up much too often and to be honest I was never really sure of the dogs age (it's just 2 or 3lbs and she carries it more than half the time, even at home)... come to find out it's almost 6 months old and what finally got thru to her was the question of would she allow this behavior from a 50# gsd puppy of the same age. it's ridiculous and it's annoying.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It's dangerous, too. A dog that acts like that is out of control and could bite or trip someone.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yep, if people sitting around there in the front of the store had labs and goldens, rottys, akitas, and GSDs, and the GSD rushed out snarling and barking at some little dog walking up to the counter -- nobody would be joking about snacks. 

If we did, someone would call AC or the police.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Unfortunately small dogs often attract owners who want all the fun of a dog but as few of the responsibilities as possible because, I think, we have come to expect bad behavior from "yappy" dogs. And when you expect an animal to behave a certain way, why spend $$$ on classes

Feeling a little bitter as I just dropped some major cash to fix some issues with my dog that loose, aggressive little dogs exacerbated. But I can't have a poorly behaved gsd...-_-


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Of course if we were sitting there with GSDs or Akitas, and one of them rushed out from under the chair on a 10' lead, we would be on our butt trying to real in our dog.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I wouldn't have a dog like that on a long line or a retractable lead. I hate retractable, because the dogs are so far away the owners have no control if something happens. I had a dog become dog aggressive after one bad experience with a tiny yappy dog that pounced on her. I shouted at the owner to keep his dog leashed but the damage was done. It was a huge amount of work to undo that one bad experience. She didn't know that crazy dog was little and it scared her half out of her mind to have a little terrier leap at her. My dog was around 11 months and the other owner yelled at me for having a big dog, on a leash, in a public place where his unleashed dog felt it had to attack.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

We have always had large dogs, when our Dal passed I decided to get a small dog ya know easy to handle and travel with since we were getting older. Got not one but two Schipperkes we put the same training and had the same expectations on these little 15 lb dogs that we had for our large dogs. So they are well behaved what always amazes me is how often I have to pull the jerk card and let people know that we don't allow them to jump up on people, jump on laps without being invited or react to other dogs, some people actually encourage this behavior from them. I expect them to ignore and be neutral just like my Shepherd. No matter the size a dog is a dog and should be trained.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I love small dogs that are trained. I have a friend with four mini spaniels, three of her own and one foster, and they couldn't be better behaved.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

oddly enough, when folks pull the "but he is friendly" comment out about their own dog running loose or at the end of a tight leash, when I responded "but my dog might not be" I got a better response from having a 22 lb dog than my GSD. I told folks my little mixed breed was a rescue and sometimes did well with other dogs and sometimes didn't so I wanted err on the side of caution. They would shake their heads in agreement and all was well. When I walk my German Shepherd Dog, they look at me like I have two heads. How dare I have a big dog who might not want to be friends with their dog! Harumph.


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## Ace_K (Jan 4, 2016)

We have a small dog as well. When we got him I told the wife that its not an accessory to go with a purse. It's a dog and needs to be trained. As a pup we trained and trained - little guy is very good and wont go ballistic. Every time we go into PetSmart I use that as a learning tool for the both of us. It exposes him to the type of dogs you mentioned, and he gets even better. You can see the look on his face, eye rolling 

Now with the rescue GSD, he's the one chasing everything in the store. (for now)


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Funny this comes up. Went with a friend and her dog last night to use a coupon. Some clowns with a large mix walked right up to my friend and her dog. Oh she's friendly! I had to step in as this dog is standing overtop my friends dog who is definitely uncomfortable. 
Also as I'm looking start talking with a random stranger. He tells me he has a gsd who pulls. He tells me he uses a prong collar....tells me its loose. I had to explain to him how to fit it. It all comes down to the person that is really willing to make an effort.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I have a hard time understanding why anyone uses a retractable lead on dog, regardless of size, but particularly on a bigger dog. Maybe there is something I don't understand, but I just don't get the advantages opposed to the liabilities. I have also heard stories of these leads breaking and snapping back, taking off somebody's finger or thumb. I am not sure if that has really happened or not, but I could see where it could...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I sold a pup night before last. A 15 week old puppy. I was doing the paperwork with the fellow, and his daughter had put a leash on the pup. and the pup ran up behind the table, and I told her to just let go of the leash. It was a retractable one, and I almost immediately said No, and went running after the pup and the leash. I did say, those things are dangerous. Luckily, no one was injured. 

This dog was little and on a long lead, I am not sure it was retractable. It may have been a long line. Not sure.


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## Saito (Dec 3, 2015)

I kind of loss it the other day at a dog park (I know, I know, lots of dog park hate; most are pointless, but this one is absolutely massive, filled with hiking trails and woods...it's more like a dog friendly section of woods that has a high fence). I was a major jerk. And some of you may hate me for how I acted, but...I hate stupid people. So...I'm with my 9.5 month pointer who loves people beyond words. And at one point I notice this lady that decided to bring her child in...7 or so. Whatever. We go into the woods for about 25 minutes and track back towards the main entrance. This woman hasn't moved, and that horrible screaming I've been hearing since? Her child, acting up, running around all crazy, annoying dogs. This is at the main freaking entrance (there are three around the large perimeter), where dogs are constantly coming inside....you are letting your kid excite already excited unknown dogs?! Dogs that may have little experience with children?! Do you realize how many great danes come here?! I seen one so large there that it was actually taller and longer than a pony--that's not an exaggeration either. Let's allow a child run crazily around in a massive dog park, where dogs are sprinting--brilliant. Plenty of kids can be seen in the park, but most dog owners don't care, as long as the kid is behaving and staying beside their parents.

So...I decided, if she can't keep her child at a heel...I can't keep my dog at a heel either. I let him jump up and lick her son's face, as many times as my dog wanted to (when he does that, he doesn't push his weight into you). And she really couldn't control her child. She kept telling her son to stop running around what seemed like every 3 seconds. At one point he was running and looking backwards...ran into my dog and fell over. I added to being a jerk by saying empty words to my dog, "oh, he doesn't want a kiss, I think." Yea, dogs aren't fluent in English...and none of what I was saying had a command in it. After about the 7th time of my dog licking his face, the lady got very upset (her kid was starting to get pretty dirty--it rained the prior day and was still fairly wet: doggy feet get dirty fast), though her kid was smiling throughout and looked like he was having fun 'playing with the doggy.' She kind of pushed my dog away, grabbed her kid and, while trying to not explode, said something like, "okay, this needs to stop! He can't keep doing this to a child." I had been waiting for this. "You know, it is really weird to see him jumping near a child--it's posted at every entrance that children 12 and under are prohibited from being in the park, and yet here is your kid running around and screaming in here." I could feel the anger in her voice building. "I know that! [admitted to knowingly bringing her child into a dangerous space...great mother!] And I also know that's my dog yours is now with and it might not like seeing this and I know that he is bigger and has bigger teeth, so your dog could get really hurt!" This could be true...her dog was pretty large; looked like some mix of a Shiloh Shepard and a Vlcak. But didn't look too great moving near my pup...looked very overweight and moved very sluggish even when "running," if you could call it that. 

Not wanting to find out, "well then, if it's a concern about the dogs, no problem." Recalled to a sit. Leashed. Pat on the head, "good boy; thanks for listening like a good son." Made sure she heard that. Began walking and not even ten seconds later her kid is screaming and running towards us! My dog turns and I tell him to sit. I stare at the woman. Tells her kid to stay so he isn't distracting. So I took him for a light, fun jog along a hiking path that goes outside of the park (outside of the fenced in area is a bunch of trails along maybe 1.5-2x the size of the fenced in part).

Major jerk move. Probably could've went about it a different way, but I guess I was being a cranky old man seeing this kid acting like this and his mother thinking it is acceptable--my girlfriend and sister both say I often sound like I'm 3x my age when talking about children. I could probably throw a tennis ball from the main entrance and have it land into the nearby playground for children. Yes--the children's playground! No excuses for this woman. If her kid wants to run around and play, there is a spot for that and inside the dog park isn't it. The dog park is for dogs to run around.
Thinking back to it, I should've told her that all the other dog owners would appreciate it if she leashed her child! Rats, I missed my chance!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Saito, I think you handled that better than I would have.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Totally get it Selzer. Here is the thing too, when I meet a little dog that hasn't been treated like a fur baby, honey bunch, scared of life, don't ask anything of them projection of the owner, they are really cool dogs. People are silly.

There are some great videos of Ivan Balabanov with his schnauzer looking dog Sampson doing bite work. My friend who met Sampson said he was a really cool dog trained exactly like the malinois that Balabanov is famous for.


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

When I first adopted Hans, about 3 years ago, we attended a few group training sessions before going to private lessons. In our class, was the cutest little mini-schnauzer named Harley. Boy, did he carry a big attitude for such a little guy. 
The great thing was that the whole family-Mom, Dad and son-all participated in each class. Harley had a prong collar on, just the same as Hans, and really improved with each class.
I really think this family did right by their little dog.


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## viking (May 2, 2014)

Saito-

I don't hate you for how you acted at all but I am curious about something: 
From your comment, its clear that you saw that the woman was struggling and exasperated in trying to control her child from the outset. I've seen similar situations except the parent was either oblivious or laughing along with their child, which has always prompted me to warn them that they're creating a dangerous condition for their kid. What you've described is different.

It seems like she was none to pleased to have to be there dealing with the failing situation herself. From the sound of it, she too knew the situation was FUBAR. The backstory circumstances that brought her there, that day, that way are unknown but from your description I feel sorry for her and wonder if she cried on her drive home.

I absolutely understand your legitimate irritation at the situation. If she'd been the oblivious or even instigating type, I'd probably be saying 'Nice job' but from your description, I just can't.


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

newlie said:


> I have a hard time understanding why anyone uses a retractable lead on dog, regardless of size, but particularly on a bigger dog. Maybe there is something I don't understand, but I just don't get the advantages opposed to the liabilities. I have also heard stories of these leads breaking and snapping back, taking off somebody's finger or thumb. I am not sure if that has really happened or not, but I could see where it could...


Agreed!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

A Flexi lead, on a large dog would be just flat insane! You would think Flexi's only retract to ten feet in length?? Every time I see someone "walking a dog" on one that's where it is. And the dog is usually straining on a flat buckle collar pulling his owner behind. 

The good news is that on a walk, badly behaved dogs (who that tool seems to appeal to??) are easy to avoid. And you know that whoever is behind the dog is "not" going to step aside or change direction. No problem for us because we will. But yeah in a "confined space" you are pretty much screwed! 

The dog can come from just about anywhere and no "useless" owner in sight!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

It still boggles my mind how people with small dogs don't realize they, well, still have a DOG. It might be in a small (and arguably harmless, though I'd refute that) package, but it's still a dog.

Honestly, that kind of denial just strikes me as being kind of dumb.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> A Flexi lead, on a large dog would be just flat insane! You would think Flexi's only retract to ten feet in length?? Every time I see someone "walking a dog" on one that's where it is. And the dog is usually straining on a flat buckle collar pulling his owner behind.


I would tend to agree with you.

I do have one. I used it for helping to teach a recall when we were between 6' lead and offleash recall. I also use it on hikes: Let her have free reign of the 16 feet when no one else is around, call her to a heel (or go get her, retracting as I go) and shorten the leash to about a foot as soon as I hear/see someone.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> It still boggles my mind how people with small dogs don't realize they, well, still have a DOG. It might be in a small (and arguably harmless, though I'd refute that) package, but it's still a dog.
> 
> Honestly, that kind of denial just strikes me as being kind of dumb.


lol.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

car2ner said:


> oddly enough, when folks pull the "but he is friendly" comment out about their own dog running loose or at the end of a tight leash, when I responded "but my dog might not be" I got a better response from having a 22 lb dog than my GSD. I told folks my little mixed breed was a rescue and sometimes did well with other dogs and sometimes didn't so I wanted err on the side of caution. They would shake their heads in agreement and all was well. When I walk my German Shepherd Dog, they look at me like I have two heads. How dare I have a big dog who might not want to be friends with their dog! Harumph.


Ha! So illogical.

There are definitely some of those owners who just can't seem to get it together enough to control their tiny dogs, but most small dog owners I run into generally either avoid us (which is totally understandable) or are surprisingly relaxed with my dog once they see she's dog-friendly...while I'm the one watching like a hawk because of that pesky matter of weight ratios.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I wanted to be a jerk but I restrained myself. Took Ziva to the pet store tonight to pick up some treats. I was standing facing the shelves selecting her treats with Ziva on my right in a sit. I feel her spin an give a little growl. In a split second from my left a yorkie on a dumb flexi lead was on Ziva's behind. I gave Z quick ut ut, no, leave it with small correction (she was on a prong and growling isn't allowed). Z looked at me and sat (good girl). As I turn, I see the yorkie owner on the other end of the leash trying to manage her dog while struggling with her purse and carrying what looked to be a 3 year old. As she is reigning her little monster in she says to the dog "I wish that big dog would have got you. Maybe you'd learn your lesson." I just shook my head and moved away. Really who makes a comment like that? 

I move about looking for another item. I need help finding it so we head toward customer service. I see the woman, child and yorkie so we hang back and move away from them. Next thing I know the 3 year old is running toward us. The mom lunges for the child saying " ohhh nooo" in a ton to suggest my dog is dangerous. Really lady....your kid is dangerous :/ and of course the yorkie is following along on that dumb 10 ft of flexi. We move back..."leave it" "good girl" whole Z is just looking at me like what are they doing. 

I see her pay and we move toward the cashier for help. I put Z in a down/stay. The woman turns on her way out the dog and says "your dog is very compliant". I smile and say "thank you" and turn to the cashier and say " to bad we can't say that about her dog or child". The cashier shrugs and offers Z a treat. 

I was so peeved by the whole thing. Who makes comments like that? What would she have really said or done if Ziva had bitten her little precious doggie? Seriously??? And why is she trying to carry a child, walk a dog and carry stuff? The store has carts for a reason. And yes, flexi leashes are the worst. 

I'm proud of Ziva. She isn't fond of most small dogs (we have been working on it a lot and improving). And, while I'm not happy about her little growl she pulled back and complied with a very small correction. Honestly, I don't blame her for the growl. I would growl too if some stranger ran up from behind and jumped on my butt.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I wouldn't worry too much about Ziva's growl in this case. A little quiet warning was a good thing. It let you know that you had an issue coming up. 

I've seen little tiny dogs trained very well. It can be done even if they aren't the sharpest tool in the shed. Most likely that woman was very overwhelmed and spoke out of frustration. Still, I agree, it was a dumb thing to say. 

Too bad she hasn't figured out that with a 4 foot static leash she probably would have had a better behaved dog and her toddler might have even "helped" her hold the leash. Then both would have been calmly near her side.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yeah, the flexi-lead in that situation pretty much caused all of it. 3 year olds can be tough to manage, and add an untrained dog on a flexi, and the lady was probably overwhelmed and not responding with the same level-headedness that you could with your trained dog on an ordinary leash. 

And yet, what is it with these small dog people making comments about our dogs getting them, or eating them? Maybe that is their worst nightmare. Maybe that is why it is at the front of their minds. From our perspective, it sucks to have a well-mannered dog accused of being a cannibal. I think they see it as some twisted form of respect. 

And compliant??? Your dog is trained. There is a lot of difference in those two terms. Your dog might be compliant naturally, but that lady has no clue what it took for you to get the behavior out of your dog. 

Once upon a time, I was going to this crazy lady for training. I had started Babsy with a good trainer, but had started Jenna with the crazy lady, and as I needed classes for both pups, I stayed with Crazy Lady. 

Normally she worked with shelties. But she had this massive Great Dane puppy about a month older or younger than Babs. Babs was about 9 months old, and since Jenna went into heat, I brought Babsy to the class Jenna was in.

The lady would say such rotten things to students about their dogs, that a class that started with 6-8 people would, by week three, be just she and I. Ok. So it was just me and her, and she decided to use the time to train this GD. 

She said, "Down your dog." I told Babsy, "down" and babsy assumed the position immediately. This woman told her GD to down. 

It was painful. This is the lady that told me to take the prong collar off of Dubya and use a halti on him. And the woman who was the closest to purely positive that I ever encountered. But she could not get the GD Down. Finally, she body slammed him. 

Unreal. 

When I left, she told me that he did not have the work ethic that my dog had. Really? Whatever. I think it was that moment that I solidified my resolve to trust my own judgement in classes, and only do something if I agreed with it. If Michael Ellis was training the class and told me to do something I felt questionable, I wouldn't do it. Doesn't matter. I am the one that has to live with the consequences if I screw up my dog's trust in me, and I am the one that knows my dog inside out.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

selzer said:


> And yet, what is it with these small dog people making comments about our dogs getting them, or eating them? Maybe that is their worst nightmare. Maybe that is why it is at the front of their minds. From our perspective, it sucks to have a well-mannered dog accused of being a cannibal. I think they see it as some twisted form of respect.


My husband and I found it hilarious the time he was walking our girl and from across the street, a smaller dog started snarling and lunging at her. She paid it absolutely no mind, while the small dog's owner asked it, "Did you WANT to be dinner?"

I thought, Hey, at least the guy has a sense of humor about it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I suppose, yes, we should be just concerned with our own animal and making conversation with them. "Did you WANT to be dinner???" As long as the guy is doing it in such a way as it is a correction and not rewarding the behavior. 

The people are laughing, and these little clown/ham type dogs, learn that laughter is very good, and they did very good, people are laughing. 

But it is frustrating that they turn around who is the bad guy. The big dog might EAT you. The big guy who has been trained, and is under control, and has been provoked beyond the level of reasonable endurance, and STILL hasn't made any move to make dinner out of the other dog, that is the bad guy. Their dog would be a hapless victim. 

Ah well, I think maybe I've beaten this horse to death now.


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## CharliePaloma (Jan 20, 2016)

Argh .. following the line of conversation that small dogs are not expected to behave in most cases ... I was walking both of my dogs the other night. I had just gotten home from work, it was ridiculously cold and add to that that Charlie (while well behaved all things considered) is still learning how to walk properly on a leash, and it was all I could do to just manage the both of them without slipping on ice. I live in a neighborhood full of town houses, very dog friendly .. but there is a leash requirement. Apparently _no one_ in this neighborhood feels the need to follow it.

Out of no where this little min-pin came running and snapping, while the owner stood in the yard three houses down hugging herself and yelling at the dog to come back. I am usually a really nice person. Consider myself fairly patient. But I just about lost it. Third time that has happened to me while living in this neighborhood and it is ALWAYS with a small dog. The thing that gets me is I know that if my lab/pit mix or Charlie (the GSD) were too bite ... it would more than likely be _their_ fault in the eyes of the other owner.

Does anyone know exactly how that works? Put a call in to my management company, but nothing has changed .. so I've been trying to do some research on who is at fault if you are on a public street and get attacked by an off leash dog and your dog reacts in an aggressive manner. But most of the things I find seem to be inconclusive? Maybe I am just not too great at law speak ... ha!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

CharliePaloma said:


> Argh .. following the line of conversation that small dogs are not expected to behave in most cases ... I was walking both of my dogs the other night. I had just gotten home from work, it was ridiculously cold and add to that that Charlie (while well behaved all things considered) is still learning how to walk properly on a leash, and it was all I could do to just manage the both of them without slipping on ice. I live in a neighborhood full of town houses, very dog friendly .. but there is a leash requirement. Apparently _no one_ in this neighborhood feels the need to follow it.
> 
> Out of no where this little min-pin came running and snapping, while the owner stood in the yard three houses down hugging herself and yelling at the dog to come back. I am usually a really nice person. Consider myself fairly patient. But I just about lost it. Third time that has happened to me while living in this neighborhood and it is ALWAYS with a small dog. The thing that gets me is I know that if my lab/pit mix or Charlie (the GSD) were too bite ... it would more than likely be _their_ fault in the eyes of the other owner.
> 
> Does anyone know exactly how that works? Put a call in to my management company, but nothing has changed .. so I've been trying to do some research on who is at fault if you are on a public street and get attacked by an off leash dog and your dog reacts in an aggressive manner. But most of the things I find seem to be inconclusive? Maybe I am just not too great at law speak ... ha!


Well there was a fellow here, that would be all for you pulling out a 45 and blowing the little monster away before it became a question. Would consider that protecting your dog. But, he was banned. 

Yeah, walking two dogs in icy weather is kind of like hanging onto a toddler and a small dog on a flexi-lead in a pet store. At least for creaky old people like me. I rarely leash my dogs at my house because they all want to get to the car, so unless they are in heat, I just let them run to the car. I will deal with leashing them in town, so there is less chance of me going down on the ice. One dog at a time. Two at a time is just painful. It isn't that nice bonding, just him and me time. It is me watching everything and everybody and wondering how each of them are going to respond -- too much stress. One dog at a time: blood pressure goes down, reasonable aerobic exercise. Two dogs: blood pressure goes up, arms hurt, legs hurt, back hurts, butt hurts (if you fall on it anyway).


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## CharliePaloma (Jan 20, 2016)

selzer said:


> Well there was a fellow here, that would be all for you pulling out a 45 and blowing the little monster away before it became a question. Would consider that protecting your dog. But, he was banned.
> 
> Yeah, walking two dogs in icy weather is kind of like hanging onto a toddler and a small dog on a flexi-lead in a pet store. At least for creaky old people like me. I rarely leash my dogs at my house because they all want to get to the car, so unless they are in heat, I just let them run to the car. I will deal with leashing them in town, so there is less chance of me going down on the ice. One dog at a time. Two at a time is just painful. It isn't that nice bonding, just him and me time. It is me watching everything and everybody and wondering how each of them are going to respond -- too much stress. One dog at a time: blood pressure goes down, reasonable aerobic exercise. Two dogs: blood pressure goes up, arms hurt, legs hurt, back hurts, butt hurts (if you fall on it anyway).


 ... yeah, injuring the min (or the other dogs in previous encounters) never entered my mind. I don't blame the dogs and I don't even blame the training the owner has or has not done with them. I trust my two (my lab especially), but knowing I live in a very active dog neighborhood, I leash him and Charlie every time. I guess to me it just seems like its consideration and being respectful of your neighbors. Yes, when the wind chill is -35 ( !! I didnt even know that was possible until I moved up here in October), its a lot more tempting to just stand in the doorway while they do their thing in the yard and then come back inside ... but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.

I park in a garage (each townhouse here has its own attached), so I never have to worry about the running to the car thing. We just go into the garage via my house and then the dogs load up and then I open the door .. but we live fairly close to an interstate that runs from the cities with a fair amount of traffic, so even if I were parked in the driveway, I think I would still probably leash them. 

And haha I usually walk separately. It is easier on my nerves, but figured I would just get it over with in a hurry that night by taking both at the same time. Thats what I get :laugh:


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

selzer said:


> I suppose, yes, we should be just concerned with our own animal and making conversation with them. "Did you WANT to be dinner???" As long as the guy is doing it in such a way as it is a correction and not rewarding the behavior.
> 
> The people are laughing, and these little clown/ham type dogs, learn that laughter is very good, and they did very good, people are laughing.
> 
> ...


I have no idea if the little dog was corrected - I wasn't there. My husband only heard the, "Did you WANT to be dinner?" and walked off laughing. No clue if the other guy was laughing. I'm relatively certain that the little dog couldn't see/hear my husband laughing; they were on opposite sides of the street.

I just thought it was a funny story.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

-35 ouch! 

That's cold. 

I think I might be tempted to sit in the car with it running, threading a flexi-lead through the window, and wait for the dog to do his business. Walking the dog in that kind of brutal weather -- you are better or crazier than me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

WateryTart said:


> I have no idea if the little dog was corrected - I wasn't there. My husband only heard the, "Did you WANT to be dinner?" and walked off laughing. No clue if the other guy was laughing. I'm relatively certain that the little dog couldn't see/hear my husband laughing; they were on opposite sides of the street.
> 
> I just thought it was a funny story.


 
It was. But I think my dogs have been accused of being cannibals one time too many, and I wasn't amused by it on Sunday.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

CharliePaloma said:


> Yes, when the wind chill is -35 ( !! I didnt even know that was possible until I moved up here in October), its a lot more tempting to just stand in the doorway while they do their thing in the yard and then come back inside ... but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.


You ain't seen nothin' yet. Just wait. Wind chills below -35 aren't a regular occurrence as far south as the Twin Cities metro, but they happen.


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## CharliePaloma (Jan 20, 2016)

selzer said:


> -35 ouch!
> 
> That's cold.
> 
> I think I might be tempted to sit in the car with it running, threading a flexi-lead through the window, and wait for the dog to do his business. Walking the dog in that kind of brutal weather -- you are better or crazier than me.


I would go with crazy and possibly leaning more toward just downright stupid! It was only to the end of my section of the street, fully bundled up and with boots on the boys for their paws ... but I think the temp just sometimes doesn't compute with my southern raised brain. Its like .. -35?!?! That has to be a mistake! haha. It was 24 and snowing today ... felt down right warm to me after this last week haha


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Selzer and Charlie P you need some stabil _icer spikes or yaxtrax spikes for walking on winter ice.They are marvelous inventions


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

CharliePaloma said:


> I would go with crazy and possibly leaning more toward just downright stupid! It was only to the end of my section of the street, fully bundled up and with boots on the boys for their paws ... but I think the temp just sometimes doesn't compute with my southern raised brain. Its like .. -35?!?! That has to be a mistake! haha. It was 24 and snowing today ... felt down right warm to me after this last week haha


We were at about 24 today too, and I thought, HEAT WAVE!!! But we didn't get close to where you are. 9 degrees coming home from work the other day. Long john and hat/glove weather, but not cold enough to close the coat. 

Stabilizer spikes, yes, I should look into that Dogma. While I don't walk them much, I do spend an hour to an hour in a half in the kennels outside, and sometimes it is slippery.


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