# Opinions on these breeders



## oatmeal (Apr 11, 2017)

Can people more knowledgeable than myself (i.e., literally anyone here) give me opinions on these breeders? I'm looking for a family pet, and probably unwilling to spend more than $1500.

Vom Zeder Haus
Authentic German Shepherd puppies for sale Tennessee Kentucky

Von den Oher Tannen
Von Den Oher tannen - German Shepherd Breeder

J-Lyn Shepherds
J-Lyn Shepherds Home Page

I'm in touch with the last one for a visit this weekend. Or should I not bother? Any insight is welcome.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The first breeder doesn't show much on their dogs, but sure know how to talk and talk and talk....... 

I believe there have been some other threads on the second breeder. I know their kennel name, but don't remember their dogs from the USA Sieger show. 

You jumped from German Show lines to American show lines. Can't help you on the 3rd kennel. 

I believe you will find the puppies from the first two kennels will be priced way over your price cap. I have a show kennel I recommend in MI, but her pet pups are also at least $1000 over that $1500 cap. You might be able to find a nice working line pup for $1500, but you will need to make darn sure the breeder is able to pick the more laid back type of pup I get the impression you want.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

If I was looking, I would bypass the first kennel. It doesn't look like they title or show their dogs, and to me that's a big red flag. They also posted a rant about how heartworm is a scam. Tell that to all the dogs in MN that die from it every year... Lots of talk but I don't see any proof to back it up.

The second kennel looks more promising, some good sires and dams there. 

How much do you know about West German Showlines? With WGSL dogs lines and pedigrees are an important factor is producing the kind of dog you're looking for.

FYI, West German Showlines will run you more than $1500. 

I know next to nothing about American lines so can't speak to the last kennel.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I know the J-Lyn dogs. Linda Novatasky. While they don't breed my style of animal, they've had nice dogs with overall good temperaments. Linda is kind and knowledgeable.


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## HikerTabitha (May 9, 2017)

We have purchased 5 German Shepherds from Vom Zeder Haus since 1995 and they have all been great dogs. Their website is wordy because it is an educational website, not just to sell somebody a dog. I know they showed and titles their dogs in the 1990's but then started to focus on true real life protection training. Their dogs are imports and they provide very good warranties. They don't say that heartworms don't exist, just that their is no epidemic and the medication is damaging and overused, that information in deeper into the website. Also their puppies are 1500.00, but they are extremely selective as to who they sell to. I wanted to post this because I actually own their dogs. Thanks


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

I do not know any of the breeders - just my opinion based off of website information.

First one has 11 females listed (granted some are young) but this means they do lots of breedings.
Second one has 17? current females... at least many are from their own breedings and are titled.
Third one has 7 females listed. I'm not into American Lines at all, so I personally would even consider them.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

My opinion?

First breeder: Lots of talking. And talking. And talking. Very little actual information about their dogs, other than they are that they are evidently the only "real" GSD in the US. I think they showed the registered name of one male, and just the call names of all the other dogs. More breeding dogs than I'm comfortable with. No idea about how many litters they have, because on the "puppies" page, there is just more talking...

Second breeder: Much more information, including the registered names and titles for all their dogs. I can't recall if they also listed health testing results? On the other hand, they have _way _more dogs and litters than I am personally comfortable with. 

Third breeder: They show all their dogs registered names and titles, as well a little bit about the dog's career and personality. If I was interested in an ASL dog, I'd definitely give them further consideration.

As for your price point, you'd have more leeway in choosing a good breeder if you are willing to add at least another $1000 to your budget.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

HikerTabitha said:


> They don't say that heartworms don't exist, just that their is no epidemic and the medication is damaging and overused, that information in deeper into the website.


Actually one of the things they say is:

" So beginning in the early 1980's, the American veterinary System realized that they were putting too many Vets in society, that these people were NOT going to financially survive. So after over 100 years of following the European protocol ( which was correct and working) The American Veterinary System suddenly decided that one Vaccine wasn't enough- suddenly they needed to be given annually. Suddenly we had a Heart Worm epidemic ."

Essentially the "American Veterinary System" invented a HW scare to make money. That's a pretty serious charge with no backing it up. And what is a reader to conclude from it? Basically they're implying that HW wasn't a thing until the Vet Illuminatis decided to make up an epidemic. 

And the general smug attitude towards American Vets. I mean, don't get me wrong, there is plenty of room for improvement in America...but lets not pretend that Europe is some utopia where everything is perfect, natural, and money is meaningless. 

I, personally, find the talk of salaries and book deal money off putting...but that's just me.


ETA: And this gem:

*Orcas ( Killer Whales) in the wild live to be 60-90 years of age. Orcas in captivity under the care of the American Veterinarian only live to be 25-30 years of age, because of the medicines and vaccines that Vets are administering to them. 

*It couldn't be the kiddie pools they're kept in or the impact of captivity on their family unit...


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## HikerTabitha (May 9, 2017)

My comments are not based on opinion, jealousy or envy, they are based on having been a client of Vom Zeder Haus for over 20 years. Their dogs are awesome and trained Police and Military style on their 248 acre training facility. I know the kennel is non-profit and Edward Denny the owner donates thousands of dollars to dog rescue every year. He is in contact with Legislators to establish a governing body in America for the reproduction of dogs to eliminate the puppy mills. Vom Zeder Haus actually has 24 adult German Shepherds ( 19 females ) and they do about 30 puppies a year as their main purpose is training and education. Their puppy facility is another 12 acres. Even though they no longer show and title to focus on real protection training, they own Ax Redox, he is a VA Sch III Czech import who has competed and placed in the German, Canadian and U.S. Sieger shows. Speaking of the Veterinary section on the website, I advise that you attend one of the Vom Zeder Haus seminars and you will receive information based on decades of research and statistics and you can ask questions, or you can wait until his book comes out. Most breeders keep their dogs in crates or a kennel 23 hours a day, the VZH dogs are trained, exercised and played with on and off all day, every day. I signed up for this site out of curiosity and to possibly learn something, but the barrage of negativity here is something that I am not comfortable with.


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## quick (Jun 9, 2019)

*Vom Zeder Haus, KY*

I am not a kind guy going bashing a business on a public forum. However, I just had a conversation with Mr Edward and thought I would share my experience here on the forum for the future prospective buyers.

Mr Edward returned my call after 3 days and I was OK with that.

When we did speak, I was told until I read his website, he will not talk to me and to let him know when I am done reading and he would call me.

When we finally spoke, his first question, what did I learn from his web site?

His second question was about our time availability for the dog?

Third question about the space/room for the dog to play around 

Next, he asked me if I had any questions.

I asked about the availability of the pups and was told about 15 months. Though I told him, I was not wanting to wait that long but would it be possible to come meet him and see his facility as that might change our mind and we might wait instead?

His response, If I wasn't willing to wait 15 months for an authentic and pure German Shepherd (very very few in this country have them, very few), then I would be better off getting a dog off a shelter than getting from another GSD breeder in this country (un-believable).

I told him I can wait 15 months but I would like to see him and his facility for if it is the right place for me to buy the GSD. Mr Edward refused to meet with me stating he was a very busy man not to mention, meeting with me would cost him $500 in lost revenue, so no, I would have to wait 15 months to meet with him. 

I told him, taking time off from my busy schedule and spending a day there at his kennel would cost me way more than the price of the dog itself so, is that not a commitment in itself? Also what if we do meet 15 months later and he refuses to give us the pup, what happens then? 

At this time, Mr Edwards decided not to talk to me any more.

In net shell, I am not too well rehearsed in GSD breeding scene, at least not yet, but Mr Edwards thinks he's the only Pure GSD breeder in the country and anybody else are all fake and breed crap. He also thinks getting a dog from a shelter is way better than getting a GSD pup off another breeder in this country.

Also, according to his web site, forum is full of crap too where breeders log under different names to talk about their own business :laugh2:

Prospective owner be aware.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I believe I stumbled across that bizarre website when puppy-searching. What line of GSD are you looking for? And how far are you willing to travel? I have been more than happy with my WGSL from Kennels Von Lotta near Atlanta, Georgia.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I have a working line dog from Von den Roten Bergen kennels in N. Carolina. She is medium drive, gets along great with the cat, and is an excellent house dog. I trust Melissa, the breeder, a great deal, and know she would match you up with the correct dog for your lifestyle. She is expecting a litter soon: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/bre...uJsnq0ts0aCxLnBACgAqzz1WjmIB6XmgTCuzDz2tFBKVs

If you are interested, I will give you her contact info. Her dogs are all $1,500. Her dogs do well as military and police dogs, sport dogs, tracking and obedience dogs, and just plain pets!


Eska von den Roten Vorbergen


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## quick (Jun 9, 2019)

Thanks


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

If you are considering American Showline breeders,* @dogfaeries *could probably help with good advice.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This kind of post kind of always bothers me, because they have to be a well-enough known name to be a larger breeder, we aren't by rule allowed to say anything bad, and when you have a number of dogs, things can change in a heartbeat. 

Even folks who show their dogs or have shown their dogs may have a death in the family, a debilitating illness, a bout of depression, but the words that are written today are here for people to read 5 years from now. 

I think a better way to go about this in general is to list your location, know what kind of shepherd you want and ask folks here for recommendations for breeders of that type of shepherd in your general location. Let them know how far you are willing to drive to meet the parents and pick up the puppy. Something like, "I'm in NE Ohio, and am willing to drive as far as western NY or eastern Indiana for a puppy." 

I have bought a dog that had to be shipped and imported a bitch, but I knew and followed the puppy's owner for ten years, and I set up the import through a friend who knew the owners personally. It is far too easy to set up a website that shows beautiful dogs, in great condition, doing things, and then pump out puppies left and right, shipping them to people and when things go downhill, the number of puppies often goes up. 

We hope that on this site, we are producing a community of dog owners who have better than average knowledge of the breed. We changed the minds of folks who would never pay more than $400 for a puppy. We get people off of Beneful. We get folks to stop typing and get their butts and dog to the vet. We help folks understand that they are family, yes, but they are not little people, they are dogs. We help folks with behavior problems. We help people with health problems. 

So much is dependent on where the puppy came from, the genetics of the dam and sire, and how the pedigrees of the dam and sire work together, line breeding, in breeding, out crossing, back massing. As well as the interaction of the puppies with the dam, the litter and the people taking care of them. My feeling is that folks need to go to the breeders, meet the breeders, meet the sire and dam, see the puppies in the litter. 


Yes, the dam may be underweight or out of coat. Yes the sire may not be available as they may have used an outside stud (nothing wrong with that), and yes there may be a pile of poop in the puppy yard, maybe a couple. Puppies poop. It is a symptom of having fed them. But there is a difference between a fresh (smelly) set of droppings and filthy conditions. There is a difference between a bitch who had 11 puppies and has lost some condition, and a bitch who has lived in terrible conditions with bad food. Pictures on Facebook or a website will not show you these things. 

Oh, and if that website looks professional and the price is right -- $1500 and up for a show line, then when you have your puppy at home and are having health or behavioral issues with your puppy, you are much more likely to blame yourself. Because you know you got your puppy from a great place. If you go to a place and get your puppy, and you didn't like the grass clippings in the water bowl (yep, someone here actually said that), then you will be so much more likely to blame you problems with your pup on the breeder. 

Evenso, plan to go visit the breeder. Ask for recommendations and then talk to them on the phone and visit the ones that seem to connect well with you. Having the gift to gab, being a good salesman, having a good website, do not indicate that the dogs are treated properly and the pups are healthy. There are no shortcuts. 

The puppy mills that used to serve pet stores, are now selling direct through the internet. It IS big business for those folks. Having a USDA licensed or inspected kennel means they have met MINIMUM requirements, and most of them have had findings or warnings. Most of those places you would be horrified to see. 

Eventhough the dogs themselves are not physically neglected or abused. German Shepherds do not do well as one of 75 dogs or one of 750 dogs. Being 24/7 in a 4'x16' run will not kill them, but will not bring out their personality, will not mentally challenge them. 

Breeders generally DO have more dogs than ordinary pet owners, who have usually 1-3. Breeders have up and coming pups, and they sometimes have returns, they have their mature breeding dogs, and they often keep their older breeding dogs, because they love them and they want to see how they age. They may have kept a pup that has been dropped from their breeding program for an issue, and they do not want to place that problem onto a buyer. If you visit the breeder, he will be proud of his dogs, call them by name, and have full confidence in them. By seeing how the dogs at the breeders place act, and how they have grown out, that is the best way to know what to expect from a puppy from them.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

@oatmeal, I took a look at the first website and read some of the articles, especially about heart worm and "real" GSD's." The information regarding Heartworm is very incorrect. Anyone in the Southern part of the US knows how serious a Heartworm problem we have here. To say there is not a problem or Heartworm preventative is not needed is poor advice and exceedingly dangerous. 

I am always wary of any breeder that claims to have "real working dogs" when what they have is European SL GSD's. There is nothing wrong with WGSL dogs at all, I am very partial to them. But, there are working line dogs and show line dogs and there is a difference. What the first breeder has are show line dogs, nothing wrong with that, unless you try to sell them as something they are not.


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## Timmyinthewell (Apr 17, 2020)

May I hijack your post to ask what do I look for to eliminate an American line breeder? I’m looking at these guys.





German Shepherd Puppies For Sale | Vom Haus Berg German Shepherds | Stillwater


German Shepherd Puppies for Sale German Shepherds for sale German Shepherd Breeder




www.vomhausberg.com


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Timmyinthewell said:


> May I hijack your post to ask what do I look for to eliminate an American line breeder? I’m looking at these guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


3yr old post... should be best to start your own.


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