# DDR working line breeder



## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm looking into adding a shepherd to my crew and am particularly fond of the black sable DDR line shepherds. I plan on training him in Schutzhund, but he also needs to be a civilized household companion. 

Location is not really an issue, but if they are within driving distance that would be great, I am located in Florida.

Some places that I am considering are:

Vom Linmarc
Vom Banach
Vom Spartanville

Does anyone have any good or bad experiences with these kennels?

Does anyone know of any other good DDR working line breeders that they would recommend and why? Particularly those that have black sables?

Thanks


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=921456&page=1#Post921456
This thread may be of some help, not to your particular breeders, but the lines in general. Though there are pics from some of the breeders lines you have listed. There are links to other DDR/Czech breeders in this thread. I am in the same position as you, love the dark sables! Waiting impatiently...


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

I think you would do well with connie at Spartanville. very nice person, and has nice dogs.

debbie


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Linmarc is right down I-95 between Melbourne and Vero Beach. Steve Lino is very active on one or two of the DDR-oriented boards. I was going to visit him but never got around to it due to my dad passing away. Still, he's close by and worth a visit if nothing but because of proximity.


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## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

Thank you for the responses...

It looks like I have a bit of research to do regarding DDR and sport and whether they might be the best fit for me after talking with a few people...

They are gorgeous though, so it is hard for me to decide!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: JkimI'm looking into adding a shepherd to my crew and am particularly fond of the black sable DDR line shepherds. I plan on training him in Schutzhund, but he also needs to be a civilized household companion.


If it is only the color that you are looking for a pup, I would recommend looking at more than straight DDR breedings. You want a companion dog that you can do sport with. The straight DDR dogs *generally* have different levels of prey/"defense" drives, more suspicion and are thus not typical of the pups most handlers bring along in clubs. The training program will need to be a bit different for a dog who is not all about prey. These are not as easy *in my experience* to train as a WGR/Belgian/Dutch etc type dog




> Quoteoes anyone know of any other good DDR working line breeders that they would recommend and why? Particularly those that have black sables?


What is commonly considered a "Black sable" can be found in non 100% DDR breedings.


With any litter you look at, I suggest the following be considered:

1. How many litters have the sire - dam each produced - is this a repeat breeding? How many pups from each are titled here in the States? In Europe? Are they straight DDR or mixed with other lines? How many are working in clubs? Can you contact the owners of THOSE pups working for discussion on their training programs?

2. Where are the pups from the breeder going? How many litters has the breeder had? How many pups per litter are working towards titles? How many are titled?

I have seen many many people buy DDR pups, start training, and quit. Gorgeous dogs, excellent watch dog/companion dogs. Harder to do sport for most novice handlers unfortunately.

I had a well known, National/World competitor tell me that "most people could not get a Schh1 on a dog with that much Lord - that you got Schh3 multiple times is a big accomplishment" - this about my first dog, DDR/Czech and a granddaughter of one of his world dogs. I told him I did not know any better, so I did it anyway.

Lee


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

My male Dingo has a lot of DDR blood. Great dog with his family, very willing to please me. However, It is not always easy to work him at the club as his suspicion and "defense" toward strangers can be quite high. Not a dog I would recommend for beginners or just people wanting to have a fun dog.
I have heard others make similar comments about these bloodlines.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

What I have found is that the focus that is so highly sought after in training for schutzhund is very very hard to both attain and to sustain. My DDR lines are more aware of what is going on around them, and some would call it more easily distracted - but a Police trainer said the dog SHOULD be aware - so it depends on your goals if this is a plus or minus. I would not look at these traits in a negative way because with breeding for sport points, some of the balance has been lost, and many sport dogs could not do police work for example. But at the same time, for a novice, I think a dog with some DDR coming through in looks, combined with good sound social sport lines, will be more suitable for a training companion dog.

Lee


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Lee,
Do you think it is because they are interested in the "real thing?" My guy has immense prey-drive for squirrells, cats, etc. But show him a ball and, although he will chase it and retrieve, the intensity is lost. Same with a sleeve vs. the helper.

To the OP-- I saw 2 Zidane sons recently with very dark sable coloring.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Mary - I could write a book on the training differences and similarities between my DDR female and her very very dark daughter! Both have very intense "real" prey....both did sheep work very instinctively, very promising. Kyra was a "ratter", could kill vermin in a split second. Retrieve drive was not high....ball or toy in training was useless...taught her with a clicker. When I bred her, I chose a male to compensate for that, using a West German dog, Xito Maineiche. Got tremendous ball drive, intensity for focus, much higher biddablity and willingness to please - lost the personal agenda attitude







Kyra, and all her working progeny are not really sleeve dogs, more "real" - one is a K9 for Vermont State Police; and the K9 handlers trainers who see Csabre all drool over her. She has the ball drive, the attention in heeling that her mother did not have though. I will breed her in the next few weeks to a Belgian import to keep and enhance all that plus balance out a bit of handler sensitivity (black Ufo son - so will get those black sables too)

Lee


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## duenorth (Apr 25, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: gagsd_pup1Lee,
> Do you think it is because they are interested in the "real thing?" My guy has immense prey-drive for squirrells, cats, etc. But show him a ball and, although he will chase it and retrieve, the intensity is lost. Same with a sleeve vs. the helper.
> 
> To the OP-- I saw 2 Zidane sons recently with very dark sable coloring.


Just curious if they were Zidane vh Sevens sons?


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Yes, Zidane vh Sevens.


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## duenorth (Apr 25, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: gagsd_pup1Yes, Zidane vh Sevens.


Are they training in SchH? I would love to hear what you thought of them.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

ahh h - none of the dogs we are talking about are by Zidane - mine are an Alk daughter and her litter by Xito Maineiche. 

Mary saw 2 dark colored Zidane sons - I figured info to illustrate that you can find "black sables" other than in DDR lines. My Basha x ****** litter had "black sables" as did my Basha x Enno litter...and I have seen many dogs as black as DDR dogs from WGR/Belgian lines.

Lee


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Yes, my mention of Zidane was just to note dark sables.

They are training in Schutzhund. I only saw them briefly but the older one was gorgeous--very, very dark. Great big head. I thought he was DDR/Czech. Very interested in the ball. I was told he was not the most social.
The younger male was a ball-nut. I mean absolutely crazy to get it. Would jump and bite the handler in his frustration. Attractive, fairly dark sable.
Both appeared stable and confident. I only saw a little obedience. Did not see protection.


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## duenorth (Apr 25, 2003)

Thanks for the feedback, Mary.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: WolfstraumWhat I have found is that the focus that is so highly sought after in training for schutzhund is very very hard to both attain and to sustain. My DDR lines are more aware of what is going on around them, and some would call it more easily distracted - but a Police trainer said the dog SHOULD be aware - so it depends on your goals if this is a plus or minus.....


Good gawd isn't THAT the truth. Siren (DDR + Czech) spends her time "scanning" her surroundings for ANYTHING that moves. From something that is alive to the smallest piece of a leaf of alfalfa that blows in the wind. (And she has done this since 8 weeks.) If she gets bored in the house she hunts spiders. And when she is in her "scanning" mode, there is NOTHING you can do to get her attention.


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## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Wolfstraum But at the same time, for a novice, I think a dog with some DDR coming through in looks, combined with good sound social sport lines, will be more suitable for a training companion dog.
> 
> Lee


That is what I have been thinking, that perhaps a combination of the two lines would work best for my interests. It is difficult enough for me to find one or the other and now I am looking for both in one!

Also, if it means I won't get a black sable, I won't be crushed. Yes I prefer the look, but it is more important that I find a good match for my interests and the interests of the puppy.

I have my work cut out for me it seems. Are there any breeders that are planning these crosses?

I saw that Wildhaus has a litter planned with I believe some Czech lines, but I assume she may be all booked up on that one... I will probably contact her to check.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Didn't Lee just say she was planning a breeding of that type?


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## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

Did she? LOL I have to go back and read it all more carefully then









She did! And with Csabre, she is so gorgeous! Looks like Lee will be hearing from me!


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

gag,

Was that at the WDA trial this past weekend in Atlanta? Nike did very well.

There are a lot of very dark sables that are confused with true black sables. The dark sables can start off fairly light when young. 

True black sables (most found in the Czech lines) are that when born; so dark, sometimes you think that they are black


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Not at the WDA trial, no. This is our local training group and the younger Zidane son is still a puppy, probably 4-6 months. 
Nike is a good-looking dog, but not as good looking as Molinari Enzo 

BTW--isn't Enzo a very dark sable and has WGr on top and plenty of DDR lines on the bottom? (and the rest is czech or slovak??)

Sorry OP for a slight thread-jacking (but you may find info on other dogs you like and litters/puppies).


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

There was a Zidane son at the trial for his SCH2. That is why I asked.

No DDR at all.

Enzo is Czech on bottom (Gabor knows the motherline very well - imported Chuna into the US) and German on the top. 

Enzo is a true black sable. So is Emi ( we have her) and Extra (in Atl - we sold him to Missy, Nike's owner) and a few other siblings. He has produced a black sable with Fannie (Odeta) and outside breedings.


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

Connie from Spartanville Shepherds has a DDR/Czech -Puck/Jamba
litter planned to hit the ground February the 6th. Could be exactly what you are looking for. There should be some black sables for sure in that litter.
Contact her Connie is a terrific person and totally honest. This is a real quality litter 
http://www.spartanville.com.


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

"The look of the Eagle... impossible to explain, but unmistakable when present" 

^5 on my favorite gal... lol Csabre for da WIN! 

Only thing would make me even more anxious for the litter would be if there was someway she were to be bred to Olek. The video's that I've seen of Olek he's both intent on his handler, yet comes onto the attack clean and fast with no cheap shots. Unlike some of the dogs I've watched who seem just barely under the handler's control between attacks. 

I guess he's just beginning to be noticed in Europe so there's not a lot of his kids over here in the US as yet. Maybe the next generation will include him, should be sweet bringing Tom and Ufo together like in Basha's litters.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

We had been watching Olek for awhile. We try and determine final breedings months out (this year's already planned or short list - looking at a new female in Europe), so we can really see/look into the dogs work close hand, check with other World level handlers and helpers, judges. 

People were surprised that we bred to a young male, but after the BSP, people understand. And it was nice that a fellow longtime working line breeder in CA recommended a puppy to a friend of his, due to the breeding to Olek.

The H kids are here and are AWESOME>>>>>>>

Gabor learned very quickly - wear the old stuff, as his dog training stuff was ripped very quickly. Attitude, structure, grip, hunt drive......


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## bosco146 (Jan 30, 2004)

Pm sent with positives and negatives


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