# vet says not to do raw :/



## PuppyKono (Jun 30, 2012)

I took LKono in to the vet today and he said not to do raw! iI was confused and kinda worried and like what are you talking about?! He said because of salmonella. And that 60% of dogs on raw get it and then once they get it their owners get it...

What do you guys think? Because he confused me. He didn't say that it was better... Just the salmonella thing.. plus I've had Kono on raw basically since I got her and I don't want to switch her off. My mom is concerned too because she doesn't want us or the dog to get sick.

He was kinda talking down to us too.. So yeah... Any help?


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Your vet is using fear tactics to sway you her way, and she is wrong. I have yet to meet a dog that got salmonella poisoning from raw, it's quite raw. Since dogs and other animals are designed to eat raw carcasses in the wild when needed.

Do not listen to your vet. You're fine.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Vet is only trying to scare you or is just misinformed. Tell him/her to read actual data on RAW feeding. 

You are fine. Countless people have fed raw for years with no issues.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is true that you can get salmonella. Some dogs can be affected, at least the people on the Diamond food recalls claim it to be so. My dogs might get a loose stool on occasion (I feed Diamond food, not raw), but it is not anything to be concerned about as dogs' systems are pretty quick and before the bacteria can get a good hold it is flushed out of there. 

However, ours are not. 

So, if you are fixing chicken for your family dinner, scrub your hands and all the surfaces with soap afterwards.

If you are giving your dogs some raw food for their meal, scrub your hands and all the surfaces the meat may have touched with soap afterwards.

If you are giving your dog dog food, scrub your hands an any surfaces with soap afterwards. 

Your vet is old-school. Nod and smile and when your dog comes in healthy, with good teeth and at a good weight at a year old, and she asks, tell her you're feeding raw. You might make a convert.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

been feeding raw for almost 30 years - no dogs sick , no people sick.

do you or the vet not cook at home , making chicken or hamburg dishes -- use common sense sanitation , same as you would in a well run kitchen.

there is salmonella in kibble .
dogs have a high hydrochloric acid and short transit time .

my dogs will sneak extra chicken frames out of the box while I am packing them away in the freezer, run to the high grass and cache the odd piece for later . Silly, usually the next dog let to free run puts nose up into air and makes a bee line for it and carries it back to the kennels . The other day one of the dogs was trotting around with something flat and brown . I thought it was one of my husbands working leather garden gloves. I get closer and I see it is a very old chicken frame looking well tanned and with soil on it . The thing is alive with teeny fly larva , the ground where it had been writhing (nature at work). The dog scarfed it down before I could get it away . Dog today out in the shaded kennel - 37 C 98 F
same as any other day. 

You are fine -- you'll probably be seeing much less of your vet !!! (health benefits when done properly)


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I agree with Selzer


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Do not listen to everything your vet says.

http://rawfed.com/myths/vets.html

That being said, I would look for another vet. I refuse to pay one who does not understand raw feeding.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I always then ask the vet what they eat? Any fresh foods or meats that we bring into our kitchens can give us salmonella! Simple food handling techniques apply. Lately, some kibbles have been recalled because they had salmonella in them that humans could get! 

Washing one's hands after messing in the feces of a raw fed dog is a good idea to prevent illness! I dare say, most people would do such a hygienic act.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

The ironic thing is, bagged dog food has lots of salmonella. So I don't get it.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I bet your vet suggested to feed the food they sell... One of the vets I work for refuses to even talk about raw feeding, the younger vet okays it and has no issues. 
Clean everything, wash thoroughly and you won't have issues. I keep separate knives, utensils, bowls, etc for raw feeding for the dogs that I won't use for family food.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

Kinda wierd..My vet recommends raw, and even hands out literature on how to feed it safely. Amazing how different alot of vets can be


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I wouldn't listen. As long as you have the balances/ratios right and the dog is thriving, who cares what the vet advises.

I was once really chastised and told I needed to feed the dogs Science Diet. Because it is so well balanced and blah. I took a bit of a tongue lashing and actually let the vet deliver it. Said nothing. Sure didn't change anything though and no one can now argue with the great results I got from the kibble I did end up with.

I may go raw someday. Not now, but I do believe it is healthiest if you do it right.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

I think there's a much higher risk of salmonella poisoning from commercial kibble than their is feeding a raw diet.

I can't remember the last time a meat packing company recalled meat they sent out to a grocery store, but there have been NUMEROUS recalls of kibble due to excessive salmonella levels.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

salmonella is overrated in people and animals. your
dog will do fine on raw.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

My vet and I agree to disagree on me feeding raw.

I do like my vet and value his opinion but at the end of the day I do what I feel is best. My boy is thriving on raw...hasn't had kibble since fall 2011.

Really the concern my vet has and a valid one are those who did not feed a balanced raw diet....only ground hamburger or turkey. Guess he had a patient that was fed this way...a complete health wreck.

Salmonella...more of a concern to humans...common sense when preparing raw meals, the same when you prepare raw meat for dinner.

If you decide to feed raw, make sure you have researched and there are alot of members here who feed raw who will support you


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I love when the non raw feeders and the vets say" a raw diet is not balanced and the dog will suffer". Okay, so when you feed a kibble and lets say it says to feed a 70 lb dog 4 cups a day.. Diet is totally balanced. Okay, so dog eats 4 cups for a few days, then one day only eats 2 cups because its hot and during training he got lots of treats. So, the kibble would not be balanced on that day because dog did not eat all it needed to be balanced. 
People do not eat a balanced diet everyday and do fine. You eat all your fruit, veggies, meat, bread, dairy, then one day you are on the run and have time for an apple and a sandwich. Guess what, diet is no longer balanced
As long as dogs on raw get fed a good diet with everything it needs it will do fine. When I fed raw, some days they got more veggies, some days more fruit, some days oatmeal, some days rice, it all depended on what was available during the seasons. They always got meat and vitamins, but I feel it was "balanced" as a while diet, not worried about each and every day.
Raw is great, if I lived where I was able to buy meat for raw instead of at the grocery prices, I would be feeding it again. I was buying chicken necks, turkey necks for $.90 cents a pound. Now that guy is gone, so I would have to pay everyday prices. Not gonna happen at $5 and $6 per lb.


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## PuppyKono (Jun 30, 2012)

Thanks everyone! 

Yeah... right as I said I'm feeding raw he's like... Don't feed raw. Don't feed it at all. So I may go to a different vet. He also said that its not correct feeding... But what ever.

Thanks c: I'm keeping her on raw c:


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Veterinarians do not get very much training in canine nutrition, and the training they do get is sponsored by pet food companies.

Yes, salmonella is a risk when handling raw meat, whether it is for your dog, or for your family. Just use common sense, wash your hands and any surfaces the meat has touched if you are worried about salmonella. Personally, I never worried about it and have never had any problems; no one sick here, dog or human. Dogs have a very high tolerance for food-borne bacteria that can make humans sick; after all, canids eat all manner of raw meat in the wild, and will not turn their noses up at old rotting carcasses. 

If you have anyone in the family with a compromised immune system, you might want to consider salmonella a serious risk. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry too much.


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

carmspack said:


> my dogs will sneak extra chicken frames out of the box while I am packing them away in the freezer, run to the high grass and cache the odd piece for later . Silly, usually the next dog let to free run puts nose up into air and makes a bee line for it and carries it back to the kennels . The other day one of the dogs was trotting around with something flat and brown . I thought it was one of my husbands working leather garden gloves. I get closer and I see it is a very old chicken frame looking well tanned and with soil on it . The thing is alive with teeny fly larva , the ground where it had been writhing (nature at work). The dog scarfed it down before I could get it away .


I had to laugh when I read this. We get the same thing here--Liesl will take one of her pork neck bones and bury it in the mulch for a few days, then dig it up and eat it in the middle of a hot afternoon. She's not had any ill effects that I can see. She got sick once, and I think it was from eating a (bad?) dove egg that had fallen out of a nest. I've found a maggot infested pork neck a few times and have to throw it away when I do, but I'm sure that several slip by my notice and provide a tasty treat for her.

At her annual check up the vet praised her health, lean build, etc. Just for fun I mentioned for the first time that she was on a raw diet. The vet got a stricken look and told me that she sees raw fed dogs often for salmonella and pancreatitis. Puh-leeez.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

60%? I would be VERY interested to hear where your vet gets their numbers from. 

Long story short, salmonella poisoning in our carnivorous companions, AKA dogs and cats, is EXTREMELY rare. If anything, it poses more of a risk for US catching it. And when a pet is infected by an overgrowth of salmonella, pinpointing the exact cause is IMPOSSIBLE. After all, salmonella is a natural bacteria found in the intestinal tract - that is then spread in feces - that almost all dogs love to munch on when they have a chance - see where I'm going with this?

Come straight out and ask your vet, HONESTLY how many confirmed cases of salmonella poisining in dogs have they PERSONALLY daignosed and treated? I bet you'll be surprised at how low that number really is. 

At the persistence of my vet, I did both fecals and cultures sent in to lab, to test specifically for the presence of parasites and salmonella/e. coli. Costing almost 800$ for both dogs. Surprisingly, Luther was the only one that actively shed salmonella (although by a very small amount), even though Zeke had been on a prey model raw diet since 10 months of age, and Luther had been on a KIBBLE ONLY diet for 6 months or so in an effort to manage his stress colitis.

It also amazes me how any new vet will tell me how great and healthy my 5 year old GSD looks, how surprised they are at his oral condition considering he's only had one dental YEARS ago, but the second I mention raw feeding they turn around and tell me it's nutritionally void and I will only cause my dog harm. 

I'm fairly certain a diet lacking in proper nutrition would cause problems long before the 4+ years I've now been feeding it.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have raised all sorts of different species of livestock over the years including free ranging poultry. My dogs, much to my disgust, have enjoyed what comes out of the back end of those animals for 30 some odd years. NEVER have one of my dogs (even when feeding kibble) or one of my family members had an issue with salmonella or e-coli.


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

Here's some ACTUAL data on Salmonella outbreaks. 
CDC - Outbreaks Involving Salmonella


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## jourdan (Jul 30, 2012)

We just started RAW with our 7mo GS. I'm waiting to hear my vet's reaction to this when we got in a few months to get him nurtured. She didn't even like the idea of me feeding him cooked meat and veggies. I'm glad to see so many of you consistently prove your vets wrong about the diets!


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

PuppyKono said:


> I took LKono in to the vet today and he said not to do raw! iI was confused and kinda worried and like what are you talking about?! He said because of salmonella. And that 60% of dogs on raw get it and then once they get it their owners get it...
> 
> What do you guys think? Because he confused me. He didn't say that it was better... Just the salmonella thing.. plus I've had Kono on raw basically since I got her and I don't want to switch her off. My mom is concerned too because she doesn't want us or the dog to get sick.
> 
> He was kinda talking down to us too.. So yeah... Any help?


I had never asked a vet specifically what they thought about raw. After reading this, I can understand their thinking. If they advised raw feeding and the client's kids developed salmonella, the vet would probably be liable. In any event the vet would be criticized by the AMA and the AVMA for even suggesting it is OK. I guess they have to balance the client's wants with the client's welfare and the dog is of less importance. I tried raw feeding briefly and stopped for just that reason. I fed the dogs outside so they wouldn't contaminate the house but the bacteria was all over their feet, their faces etc. I just wasn't comfortable. If mine were kennel dogs, I might still be feeding raw. I guess every individual will have to weigh the ups and downs and come to his own conclusion.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Ok, I just did a quick count, and including myself I know 26 people who feed raw or did for an extended period. Based on your vet's statement, 15.6 of them should have contracted salmonella. In actuality, not a one of them has. Even if he was half right, 7 of them should have, and yet, the number I have is still zero.
I have a friend who did a study on raw feeding for her final project when she was in vet school. (this was like 8-9 years ago) She had questionnaires filled out by at least 250 raw feeders and she found zero incidences of salmonella. She also found only a few cases of issues due to the diet, those were mostly bone ingestion issues and the ones who reported that did not supplement with any vegetation or packaged supplements at that time.
I don't feed raw anymore, mostly due to time constraints and storage for feeding 11 dogs. But if I have clients who do, I support them wholeheartedly and refer them to a vet nearby who feeds raw to her own dogs.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Ask your Vet 

"What % of pets present with vaccine reaction, whether speculative - (days, weeks months later) or conclusive (within minutes, hours)...What about Years... when the dog presents w/idiopathic nuerological disorders, paralysis, seizures...and therfore do you suggest NO vaccinations?" That ought to put a burr in his butt!!!

I have a neighbour who's dog had a serious vaccine reation, face swelled up, couldn't breath, seizures...Cost $400+ to undo the damage the vet did.
The person said well I guess we won't be doing vaccines anymore...the Vt replied "Oh, no, it's O.K...we'll just administer a shot of benedryl with it....OUTRAGIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Further sugget this:
How many dogs present with Digestive, liver, kidney, pancreas, diabetes, skin, joint, cancer diseases....What % of those dogs are fed kibble.

Fresh food doesn't sit in a bag in a cupboard.
Mention that kibble, with it's synthetic suppliments, and it's Essential fatty acids and flavour enhancing oils sprayed on after (as heat processing kills oils) and once exposed to air start degenerating forming cancer causing toxins...if that's o.k to feed every day?


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## NWHeather (Oct 29, 2010)

jourdan said:


> We just started RAW with our 7mo GS. I'm waiting to hear my vet's reaction to this when we got in a few months to get him nurtured. She didn't even like the idea of me feeding him cooked meat and veggies. I'm glad to see so many of you consistently prove your vets wrong about the diets!


 It took about 4 years, but I finally have my vet ok with raw feeding. For a while, she was adament about not feeding raw. Over the years, I would talk a little bit more to her about it. (I fed raw a couple times for a little while during this time).

My last vet visit with the dogs, I brought it up again, & acknowledged that she wasn't fond of it, & we talked about it, & when I told her I buy prepackaged either Darwin's or Common Sense, that is created as a balanced diet, she finally said she was ok with that.

She sees so many dogs with problems from the owners just throwing raw meat to the dog, without making sure they have the other necessary raw components.

The other vet I had before I moved north was ok with raw, just added cautions about proper meat handling, collecting feces, etc.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I hear about the "contaminated feces" from my vet too which makes me chuckle - because, the feces from kibble fed dogs is safe to handle?


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## NWHeather (Oct 29, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> I hear about the "contaminated feces" from my vet too which makes me chuckle - because, the feces from kibble fed dogs is safe to handle?


 LOL-Right?

It boils down to common sense, safe raw meat handling practices (regardless of food for humans or dogs), as well as picking up poop. 

I treat both the same,whether I'm feeding kibble or raw.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

NWHeather said:


> The other vet I had before I moved north was ok with raw, just added cautions about proper meat handling, collecting feces, etc.





Castlemaid said:


> I hear about the "contaminated feces" from my vet too which makes me chuckle - because, the feces from kibble fed dogs is safe to handle?


Ok...I now have to ask...

What is the proper protocol to clean up raw fed feces vs kibble fed feces?

Because my protocol with raw is let the rain wash it away! With kibble...it includes a full face gas mask, a shovel with a long handle and DH to haul it away!


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## NWHeather (Oct 29, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> Ok...I now have to ask...
> 
> What is the proper protocol to clean up raw fed feces vs kibble fed feces?
> 
> Because my protocol with raw is let the rain wash it away! With kibble...it includes a full face gas mask, a shovel with a long handle and DH to haul it away!


 IMO, I think they should both be treated the same. Both are unsanitary.
Both should be picked up & disposed of.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I've fed raw for over 5 years(2 pups and a senior transitioned)only 2x's have I ever had sick dogs due to gastro illness. 

My daughter became ill recently due to an exposure to a sick calf on a farm-out of state, we were on a HS mission trip. 
The farmer had just gotten these cows in a week previously. 
The health dept in both states(ours and the state it occurred, TN) are involved. 
IF I let them know that I was feeding my dogs raw, guess where the focus would go to with her illness? They wanted to know her diet for the three weeks previous and I will not/would not let them know the diet I feed my dogs. She was hardly at home two weeks before we left, and on the trip never exposed to the dogs.

One of my vets was so tunnel visioned when Kacie was ill(pond water she drank) that her diet was all they focused on. I quit that vet then.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

NWHeather said:


> IMO, I think they should both be treated the same. Both are unsanitary.
> Both should be picked up & disposed of.


I was kidding...not seriously asking.


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## NWHeather (Oct 29, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I was kidding...not seriously asking.


LOL ok, I don't know you well enough top pick up on that just yet.


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## Kelly&Kip (Aug 5, 2012)

Loneforce said:


> Kinda wierd..My vet recommends raw, and even hands out literature on how to feed it safely. Amazing how different alot of vets can be


After being lectured today by Kip's vet on the evils of feeding raw, it is welcome news to learn that there are actually some vets out there that support the raw diet. My vet is adamantly opposed to it and basically stated it borders on animal abuse to feed it. I guess I either not engage in diet conversation with him or find a different vet.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Kelly&Kip said:


> After being lectured today by Kip's vet on the evils of feeding raw, it is welcome news to learn that there are actually some vets out there that support the raw diet. My vet is adamantly opposed to it and basically stated it borders on animal abuse to feed it. I guess I either not engage in diet conversation with him or find a different vet.


I think your vet is over-stepping their bounds. It is one thing to warn people about what might happen if the dog does not get a balanced diet. It is another thing to tell people not to do something, or suggest that feeding a raw diet is bordering on animal abuse. I suppose I would wonder why she/he thinks this. I mean, feeding meat means killing animals, and I suppose that could be bordering on some type of animal abuse, so is she/he wanting for you to feed your dog a vegetarian diet -- that I think does border on animal abuse because dogs are meat eaters. 

I think that a lot of vets think that people want to feed raw food because it sounds cool, it's the newest fad, and they are not going to take the time to ensure that they are feeding proper proportions. I think that some do feel that certain conditions are caused or aggravated by feeding raw food. I also think there is a lack of respect going on, when a vet thinks they should be obeyed without question. 

I think you are right, you either have to leave the diet conversations at the door, or find another vet.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

find a different vet....if yours is so close-minded on diet, then what would happen if your dog needed care? Would he focus on what you feed instead of looking further into the cause of illness?
I'd bet he's already marked on your dogs records that you are abusing your dog due to the natural diet you feed. When you fire him, I'd ask him what dogs ate before kibble was produced. 
I do agree that an unbalanced, poorly researched raw diet is just as bad as the worst kibble out there.


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

vets here are the same, i just tell them i feed a home cooked diet. health wise other than a worm episode when i first got him and now going through a bout of Pano puppy is very healthy. been feeding raw since i got him in November.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Your dog, your wallet, maybe not your vet if she keeps this up.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> find a different vet....if yours is so close-minded on diet, then what would happen if your dog needed care? Would he focus on what you feed instead of looking further into the cause of illness?
> I'd bet he's already marked on your dogs records that you are abusing your dog due to the natural diet you feed. When you fire him, I'd ask him what dogs ate before kibble was produced.
> I do agree that an unbalanced, poorly researched raw diet is just as bad as the worst kibble out there.


 
I had this problem with Luther, my GSD I recently lost. He had extreme stress colitis, I KNEW the chronic diarrhea was stress related, but whenever I took him in to the vet looking at calming options and other options for his nervous and fearful tendencies, all she would do was look at his diet and put him on metronidazole, which kills parasites in the intestinal tract. She would never even look beyond that, would never even discuss "Ok, maybe this IS stress related, lets maybe look at some medications or homeopathic options that may help". It was always "Oh, you feed raw, your dog has diarrhea, here's some metronidazole AGAIN". She is NOT my vet anymore.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

Anubis_Star said:


> I had this problem with Luther, my GSD I recently lost. He had extreme stress colitis, I KNEW the chronic diarrhea was stress related, but whenever I took him in to the vet looking at calming options and other options for his nervous and fearful tendencies, all she would do was look at his diet and put him on metronidazole, which kills parasites in the intestinal tract. She would never even look beyond that, would never even discuss "Ok, maybe this IS stress related, lets maybe look at some medications or homeopathic options that may help". It was always "Oh, you feed raw, your dog has diarrhea, here's some metronidazole AGAIN". She is NOT my vet anymore.


I'm so sorry to hear you had that experience. I had a wonderful vet in Columbia, SC when I had my cocker spaniel. She used to poop due to separation anxiety, and my vet there recommended Rescue Remedy, aka Bach Flower Essentials. You buy it at GNC. It's hood for people, dogs and cats. Put 4 drops on their tongue twice a day, or 8 drops in their water if they drink a whole bowl in a day. It helps calm them down. Wonderful product. Really helped my cocker, and I read they use it on greyhounds sometimes. Love it! Just for future reference.


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## PuppyKono (Jun 30, 2012)

WOW! I havent seen this in awhile this has grown to many comments. Thanks! Ive put her on a raw diet full of good stuff thats balanced C: So I think next time my vet tells me raw is bad I'll just show him this! :laugh:


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## Barrett's Mommy (Feb 3, 2012)

I am very confused and would love some feed back. I work at a vet. And we see dogs with pancreatitis all the time from eating human food. We switched our GSD to solid gold wolf cub, but I've noticed his coat isn't as hydrated. he's been on Solid gold for almost a year, but we're thinking of incorporating some meat and eggs back in his diet a couple days a week. I don't know what to do. I see pets die from Raw, but I truly think it benefits too. What to do? P.S the vets I work with are against raw.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I haven't heard good things about Solid Gold for GSDs, I'd switch kibble before simply adding something to the Solid Gold.

When you say you "see pets die from raw", what do you mean?


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## Kelly&Kip (Aug 5, 2012)

Barrett's Mommy said:


> I am very confused and would love some feed back. I work at a vet. And we see dogs with pancreatitis all the time from eating human food. We switched our GSD to solid gold wolf cub, but I've noticed his coat isn't as hydrated. he's been on Solid gold for almost a year, but we're thinking of incorporating some meat and eggs back in his diet a couple days a week. I don't know what to do. I see pets die from Raw, but I truly think it benefits too. What to do? P.S the vets I work with are against raw.


I would like clarification with regard to the statement that you have seen pets die from eating raw. What pets and what exactly was it about feeding raw led to their death? 

I am still fairly new to feeding raw. I have been feeding to my pup for the last 3 mos. nearly. Had massive falling out with first vet over diet and now have a vet who simply says she will agree to disagree with me but does not lecture me on the supposed evils on feeding raw. 

I give Kip raw chicken quarters every day and frozen raw foods from Nature's Variety line. He has done extremely well on this diet. His coat is shiny and soft.


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