# Workin the flirt pole.... Advice?



## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

So we bought Killian some new equiptment, a flirt pole, and a tug, and we have been working with him since. The flirt pole has a 6 inch tug on the end. I was told to work with him with it, but I'm not sure I'm doing it right 100%......

Is his bite not solid in the center because the tug is too small?? Is he supposed to have a different bite on this tug? We go to training on Friday so I get to ask all my questions then, I just don't want to mess up training here and now...


I'm pretty sure the goal is to bite the TUG on the end! 









He was proud to win.... 









This is the best bite he could get... 



























Ella doing flirt pole with Kil.... :wub:


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Where and how he bites depends on the purpose/goal. Are you trying to develop a better bite? Prey drive? Just playing tug for fun? I'm no expert, but I generally see flirtpole as a way to tap into prey drive, and the majority of the time the dog is not biting or tugging. Usually the dog is posted or back tied so you or whoever has the flirtpole can control things without having the dog jumping and flipping all over. I use it to work the dog into a prey drive frenzy. He might get one or two bites but really it's about barking, chasing, offering bites that he can't quite reach but helping the dog learn to target, etc. To me this is not part of bitework/protection work but just something fun I sometimes do with my dogs. It's good exercise for them, gives them an outlet to bark and go crazy for a few minutes, and since the dog is backtied I have total control. I've never used a tug on a flirpole, usually it's a piece of suede or an old dishcloth. If you are concerned about how or where the dog is biting/gripping, I'd hold off and discuss with your helpers and club. Like I said, it depends on what you are using the flirtpole for, what you intend to accomplish. I use mine purely for play and exercise, as I believe biting and gripping are basically genetic (not something I spend time to "develop" because it's just there) and to me actual bitework/protection work is not done with flirtpoles, rags, or tugs.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

First...how old is he? 
Is this the first time he has been flirt poled?
Do you use a tug on him by hand?


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Liesje: Thank you, I have tied him back for some of it, I take him out back to just run off some energy and build his prey drive. Since he started his ScH work last month, we haven't gotten to proper bite work yet. Were just building drive. Thank you for your advice. I'll hold off on that and use his regular tug for now! Thank you so much!!

Ace95: 1. Killian is 9 months old, 10 months on the 18th. 
2. He used a flirt pole at training and we were advised on to use it, but I had so much info to intake that night, I confused how to work the flirt pole different from the tug.
3. Yes, we have a tug for him, here is a picture of his gear....


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

If you want to use it to expand energy you will have to move it faster to keep him teased. If you have just started on the flirt pole it will take him time to learn to target along with you marking when he hits the tug correctly instead of the pole.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

szariksdad said:


> If you want to use it to expand energy you will have to move it faster to keep him teased. If you have just started on the flirt pole it will take him time to learn to target along with you marking when he hits the tug correctly instead of the pole.


Thank you for that. I guess with time there will be improvement!


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

ok cool.

IMO, don't back tie him! Too early for that. Let him run free and work the flirt pole in a circle so that he is chasing it in a circle. Circle is better than back and forth (easier on the joints). Move it fast in a circle along the ground.

The purpose of doing it this way is so that the dog works on building up the drive to chase (hunt) his prey. I would personally take off the tug and replace it with a few white socks (good color for dogs). To the dog while you move it FAST in a circle on the ground, it's like a rabbit. The white sock is a smaller and harder target than the tug. It teaches focus. Hate for you to hold the tug and he starts biting anywhere (close to your hand or your hand period)

I use the word "drzz" (czech word for bite) as he is chasing it. Use your bite word so he starts associating the word with it. Now once the dog gets it, you can either choke them off or have the dog out if it knows the "out" command. If he doesn't know it, you may want to start now.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

The reason I say don't back tie him yet is because he is learning. Want to play together and not him working by himself.

Also back tieing him means that you are not helping him learn how to target as opposed to him chasing it like he is hunting it down.

I know this first hand as I started my pup by back tieing and me having him in harness while decoy worked flirt pole (like we was back tieing him). It wasn't until i used the flirt pole by myself that my pup was going at my hand, arm, rope and then maybe the socks at the end. NO BUENO. He hadn't learned to target.

Luckily he only learned this way for 2 months. It took me a month of doing it by myself (help with a trainer) with just me and him in a open field with a flirt pole where he learned how to target. I got a lunge whip from a feed store and put socks on it to make a flirt pole. I will take a pic when I get home.

Now I do back tie him from time to time to just piss him off but I still also let him run and chase it. Builds up that speed as well. Change directions of the circle as well....go the opposite way he has been chasing. Keep the session around 10 min. End it with him winning it and carrying it to his crate and put him up for awhile. Wanna piss him off.....after putting him up flick it at the crate and give his bite command. There you are building it up as well.

I say only use the tug when you have it in your hand after he has learned how to target. That way he knows to get the tug and NOT your hand.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

He is about 87% with his out command. Some days high 90% but not solid yet. We'll keep working. I normally use his flirt pole to run his energy out, and the ScH trainers have him being tied back to use the big tug. I'll speak with the trainers on Friday about the tie back, but just stick with tug of war until then. This is our first experience in ScH, so I've been learning a lot! Thanks!


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Great. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Ace952 said:


> The reason I say don't back tie him yet is because he is learning. Want to play together and not him working by himself.
> 
> Also back tieing him means that you are not helping him learn how to target as opposed to him chasing it like he is hunting it down.


I disagree but I supposed it is personal preference. I don't see why the pup would think you are not playing together b/c of the back tie. I use the back tie so that I have control. My dogs are WAY too fast for me to work a flirtpole without them tied. Also I don't like them jumping and leaping really high. Working them off a back tie in a circle makes me dizzy after about 10 seconds. The back tie gives me a large circle, allows me to move forward or backward in response to the dog's behavior, keeps me safe, keeps the dog safe. The dogs have never once lost interest or appeared to think they were working "by themselves" because they were harnessed and tied. Also for me part of the point of using a flirtpole or plain rag is to build the frustration. Can't do that when the dog is free to jump and snatch the toy every time. Sometimes all I do is back tie my dog and kick a toy around out of their reach. They never actually get a bite or tug. Makes them NUTS and then they take a long nap


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Yea I see back tieing as more working than having them loose and running which I see more as playing. Letting them run loose allows them to chase it down. They get to chase & capture their prey.

How are you working the flirt pole?

My 10 month old is very high drive & fast a heck but With the flirt pole I control the speed. If he is loose and not back tied, he shouldn't be jumping & leaping as the sock (or whatever you use at the end of the flirt pole) should be moving along the ground fast like a rabbit. 

I agree back tie builds up frustration but I feel they gotta chase and hunt it down. You are teaching them how to focus and target. This can help when you hold a tug and you have him coming full speed at you from 20 ft away and they always target and bite the tug and never get your hand. Same as chasing the decoy when he has the sleeve.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

To me, "working" happens with a helper, at an age where you can start tapping into suspicion and defense. Anything else, including all flirtpole, is play/exercise for fun. I don't "work" a flirtpole because I see it as a toy. With the dog loose, the only option I have is to move the whatever's on the end of the string in a circle that's only as large as the string, but I get dizzy instantly or the dog catches it right away b/c I can't move half as fast as they can.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Liesje said:


> With the dog loose, the only option I have is to move the whatever's on the end of the string in a circle that's only as large as the string, but I get dizzy instantly or the dog catches it right away b/c I can't move half as fast as they can.


LOL!!! Try a horse (lunge) whip and attach toy at the end. I use a super long one (length of pole and string are looooong). Helps you to not get dizzy. Yes, that will tire them for sure.


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## Coastie01 (Mar 17, 2011)

Heres a piece of advice dont whack Killian in the eye with it like i did to Nero last night!!! He was not too pleased with that. Live and learn lol.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Coastie01 said:


> Heres a piece of advice dont whack Killian in the eye with it like i did to Nero last night!!! He was not too pleased with that. Live and learn lol.


Haha, I will be sure not to do that. The trainer, whacked him in the face with the tug last training session, Killian got PISSED. It was entertaining on my end to watch! LOL!


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

We do the lunge whip in a circle, but Tim got smart and now cuts thru the center to get the rag! Now what do I do? I need to wear out the bugger!


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

ponyfarm said:


> We do the lunge whip in a circle, but Tim got smart and now cuts thru the center to get the rag! Now what do I do? I need to wear out the bugger!


Change directions if he tries to cut it off.
Also you may be moving it too fast for him to get it so he knows to just cut it off.


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