# Prong collar and throat irritation / damage



## Kartr (May 26, 2020)

Hi everyone,

First off, I wanted to share some photos or our sweet girl Nala. She is a 2 year old shepherd whom we adopted from a rescue 3 months ago. Loves people and now loves playing with dogs. Here are some photos to introduce!

























When we adopted her, Nala was a major puller and reactive to dogs & anything that runs. We tried positive reinforcement only but she could care less about treats (even rotisserie chicken!). We weren't making progress, so we decided to work with a trainer. The rescue had given us a choke chain, which we then learned how to use as a corrective tool from the trainer. Because she had such high drive and difficulty listening, corrections had to be pretty hard to get her to stop doing bad behavior. I admit I was completely novice to begin with and when smaller corrections didn't work, I went harder to get her to stop and focus. About a month and a half ago, we switched to a prong collar for training because I was beginning to worry these hard corrections were bad for her throat. I wish I had done it earlier, her behavior became a lot more manageable and she's great on walks these days in familiar environments. 

However, I have noticed some things that are a bit concerning to me. Nala now tends to cough after drinking water. Lowering her water bowl has helped, but she still coughs occasionally. She also tends not to fully swallow small treats when she's playing or being rewarded on walks. She doesn't really have coughing fits outside of that, but has been breathing harder after fetch more quickly. We used to chase in the backyard with the flirt pole for 20 mins straight, and now she prefers to trot until its within close range after 5-10 mins. Granted, its about 20 degrees hotter where I live vs when we first got her. 

We took her to the vet to get checked up. I assume he probably listened to the lungs and felt her windpipe and told us it was all good. I've also felt her windpipe and applied pressure and she has no negative reactions. We live near a park with lots of trees and grass, and Nala had some allergies as we moved into summer. The vet gave her a shot and some medication which has helped tremendously with her paw licking and scratching. I had thought maybe the coughing bits were from allergies. For the most part, no majorly odd breathing noises, honking coughs, or blue gums. She has been groaning when laying down a lot more.

This past weekend, she exhibited bad behavior at a park, and I gave her a moderate-hard correction to break her focus with the prong collar and she did a cough. Today she's coughing up treats on walks a bit more than usual. I'm really on the fence on whether the prong is the culprit or not and the training and corrections have damaged her throat in a permanent way! She's a lot calmer in general now, so perhaps that's helped explain her being more relaxed and not wanting to chase as much. She still can chase other dogs full speed when we get a chance to play, and settles down nicely afterwards. So I know she can exert herself if she wanted to. At rest, her breathing rate is like 15-18 breathes per minute. Would love people's thoughts to see if my worries are just crazy or if more serious? Can the prong collar actually dig into her trachea after a correction? Wondering if I should take an x-ray at another vet and do an endoscopy. 

Thanks everyone!


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

A well made prong collar with round tipped prongs (herm sprenger) is made to tighten evenly around the neck to specifically avoid damaging the trachea.If you're not comfortable using it or feel you're not handling it correctly consult with an experienced trainer.


----------



## Kartr (May 26, 2020)

Thanks dogma. I’m using a Herm springer 3.0mm. I believe I’m using it correctly, I’ve gone through it with an experienced trainer and read a bunch on it and watched videos.


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

OkSounds like you're feeling doubt about technique maybe?Your trainer can critique and help you fine tune.
Unless you're yanking him incredibly hard or strangling him the prong collar should never cause pain,distress,or coughing.


----------



## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

Beautiful girl!
My dog used to get excited and only halfway swallow his treats. He coughed them up all the time. A trainer saw it once, and he was unfazed. I wouldn't worry.

Agreed with Dogma13. The prongs are made as not to damage to dog's throat. In fact, they are more humane than choke collars because they are meant to correct without choking. Choke collars do damage if they aren't used properly and if the dog is pulling harshly all the time, as my dog would do. 

I, while learning to use the prong collar, once gave a hard correction which made my dog cough. That's too hard. If your question is technique: Corrections with a prong collar should be a fast pop that is enough to correct the dog's behavior. Do not pull at all when correcting with prongs. 
Good luck!


----------



## Kartr (May 26, 2020)

Thank you both for your responses. My girl is in between prongs I believe. Taking a link out makes it a bit tight (prongs start to dig a little) and leaving it out makes too loose (rotates on her neck rather easily). I think the issue might be the collar being too loose, so it doesn't necessarily just pinch. I'm getting a set of micro prongs to size it better for her, which will hopefully also help with lowering the intensity of corrections. Will keep you guys updated. Thanks so much again!


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

The coughing after drinking water worries me. Does she ever spit up a little water or regurg undigested food? Have you done xrays of her esophagus? That cough thing with water can be one of the early signs of mega-esophagus, so I would want to rule it out (many vets know little about it and aren't good at spotting it, so unless yours has had several mega-E patients, it may not come to mind as a possibility). I've never seen a dog cough from a _properly used _prong because the popping motion is so light--if you claim you are using it properly and the dog is coughing, something is wrong.

Either way, I'd explore a new training style--ditch the prong if it's causing her problems and train with a different style. There are a million ways to train, and there is no reason to be attached to any one style or tool--change it up! People who claim their way is the only way haven't owned enough dogs in their lives to make fools of them with "their way." Some dogs simply need "a different way." Sometimes it's because a dog is soft or sensitive; other times it is because of physical limitation. I've adapted to train a blind-but-capable dog, a super-sensitive dog who wilts with corrections, and several adolescent buttheads. They all needed something different. Adapt to the dog in front of you and trust your intuition when something isn't right.


----------



## Kartr (May 26, 2020)

Thanks for the thoughts Magwart. Nala doesn't regurgitate any food or water as I think you mean. When she coughs up treats it's always the last one I just gave her, which leads me to believe her esophagus function is normal so long as I wait for / remind her to swallow 😉. We haven't done any xrays yet, but I'll check with the vet and see. 

Her coughing has improved since the weekend, so I must have corrected too hard at the moment. Glad she's recovered for the most part. I did some troubleshooting on her coughing. She does not cough after drinking water when the water bowl is on the ground. The times she coughs up treats or after drinking water are usually when she forgets to swallow the treats or she's panting heavily after playing or exercise. She has nasal allergies and maybe flea bites aggravate it. Fleas don't stay off her despite oral and topical flea meds. Argh! It also could be that when we are outside playing fetch, she's inhaling allergens by getting the ball or there are allergens in the house brought in from outdoor. Playing at night has turned her into an energy ball, so the lethargy is probably the heat.

But yes, I agree with you on varying the training styles. We've gotten pretty far with her on the prong, but since her behavior is pretty good now, we are mostly rewarding her with treats when she's a good girl. I think in high stress situations, the prongs might actually add fuel to the fire, so the new strategy is letting her learn under her threshold better with some positive guidance.


----------

