# Prong Collar Size for 6 mos. old



## Buckley28 (Aug 13, 2009)

Just wondering what size collar i should get for Luke. He's 6 months old and I didnt know if I should be getting him one that fits now and then another later down the road. I'm starting him out on the prong collar for xmas (thanx santa). 
18''
20''
22''


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

I honestly don't think you should need a prong for a 6 month old - there are lots of other ways of teaching him not to pull. Try an easy-walk harness.


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

I've found that Heidi pulls far less when I'm walking her with her Easy Walk harness than when she has her prong collar on.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

I agree. He is too young.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I dont personally agree with alot of his methods, but he does have a good prong fitting article.

http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

I missed the age, sorry, he probably should be a bit older before you use a prong on him. But the above website is a good one when the time is right for fitting.


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## Judy Sheaffer (Aug 1, 2009)

To make a prong collar larger you just add links, it's to be fitted as a dog grows. If you have never used this type of collar you need to have someone teach you how to use it. As with any type of training equipment it can be used incorrectly. A prong isn't a everyday collar, it is for training time only. Using one on a 6 month old dog is ok IF you know what you are doing.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The bitch someone e-mailed me about that bit five people and counting, was sporting a prong collar in her picture, no leash. It made me wonder when they decided to use this on her, and when they decided to use their invisible fence, and how the heck do you use a prong collar and an e collar at the same time???

Children and dogs are not born with manners. They need to be taught manners. When one puts a prong on a puppy, behavior changes pure and simple. It is like a rude awakening. If that is how you want to train your puppy, so be it. There are a cagillion people on this board that swear by them, and one person who says that sooner or later they will need one. 

With nine adult dogs already titled, not one of them has yet needed one. 

The alternate methods of teaching the dog not to pull, take longer. In fact, they take commitment. There is no commitment involved in putting a correction collar on the dog. 

Look Fido, what I got for YOU for Christmas, a collar that will shock your little bad butt into submission. I got a new crop and spurs for the horse. I got a good stout switch for the boy, and a mop for the wife. Everyone is going to be so happy this Christmas.


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## millerr (Dec 17, 2009)

Prong collars are amazing!!! We got one for Hailey at about 8 months and it instantly quit her pulling where as with chokers she would just keep pulling until she couldn't breath. I believe someone else said this but you can remove the links so save yourself the money and get one that will fit her as an adult.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: New Puppy OwnerJust wondering what size collar i should get for Luke. He's 6 months old and I didnt know if I should be getting him one that fits now and then another later down the road. I'm starting him out on the prong collar for xmas (thanx santa).
> 18''
> 20''
> 22''


Prong collars are sold based on size (which generally refers to the size of the links) not length. You pick the appropriate links and then add or subtract them until the collar fits properly.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

This is a good place to learn how to properly fit a prong collar.

http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

Also, we don't start using the prong collar on our puppies until about 8/9 months (depending on the puppy) We usually just let them wear it for about a month before we even attach a leash to it, and then we just let them pull into it. It's important to remember that the prong collar and correction should only be part fo the equation, you still need to reward the good stuff.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

does your dog need a prong or do you think because he's 6 months
old it's prong time? are you training your dog to heel? are you training your dog yourself or do you have a trainer?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is a Christmas present for the puppy. Go Santa!!! I always wondered how Santa got his reindeer to work for him. The bitter truth. Maybe with that nose thing going on with Rudolph, he is using shock collars too. Where ARE those PETA people when you need them????


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: selzer Where ARE those PETA people when you need them????


geez, excellent question









It does take more of a commitment, and more time to train without such collars, but that's because you are teaching the dog and creating stronger neural pathways that will be a foundation for learning for the rest of the pup's life. 

So, I agree with selzer, it's certainly worth that time and that effort.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

ahhhhhh poster-duck! my "puppy" cesar was 77 lbs at 6 months he needed a prong! took me five yrs to put one on Paige-DUH!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

ENOUGH!! People should be able to ask about fitting a pinch collar without being attacked. People should be allowed to ask about any training tool without being attacked, told they are cruel sick people, that PETA needs to be called (divide and conquer), and to be made to feel like they are inept trainers or "leaders". This message board was created to help and educate people. Not to belittle them. If I read any more messages like this I will start sending out warnings.

Do I make myself clear?









ADMIN

***********


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> It does take more of a commitment, and more time to train without such collars, but that's because you are teaching the dog and creating stronger neural pathways that will be a foundation for learning for the rest of the pup's life.


And meanwhile, if you live in the great white north, you break a wrist or hip because your GSD has pulled you over on the ice. The pinch collar is a viable tool and at times very necessary. Educate about the correct usage and how to train the dog so it later is not needed instead of always accusing people of being inept owners.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks Lisa, I'm sure the OP would like some guidance.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: lhczth
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: LisaT
> ...


No kidding! I was just recently diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis - my puppy hardly ever pulls, seriously! He is so respectful and easy going, but I got joint issues, and nothing but ice on the roads, it would be almost irresponsible for me to take him out without a prong collar!

And talking of neural pathways - Keeta, I firmly believe, was a tied for the first year of her life. Her first and early neural pathways developed FOR pulling! Nothing else to do but pull-pull-pull!!!! Pull on your chain when you see someone! Pull on your chain when you hear something! Pull on your chain whenever you want want want!!! Pull on your chain like a maniac when someone approaches with food bowl in hand, and you get food!!! Pull on your chain when someone comes to talk to you and give you attention and you get attention!!! 

Dogs don't live long enough to have those kind of early neural pathways reprogrammed. After five years, of constant work AND a prong, she is pretty good and responsive to voice commands, but I'm sure I would have been dragged out into traffic by now, or Keeta would have gotten into a fight with everydog that she has come across if it wasn't for a very effective and safe training collar like the prong.


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

It was our trainer that suggested getting Miya accustomed to a prong collar at around 5 months and yes she is a Schutzhund trainer. It wasn't used for her pulling at the time (it is more so now because she is larger and helluva lot stronger) but for building drive.

Miya is a petite thing at 22.5" tall and 54lbs and she wears a Herm Sprenger prong using 2.25mm links. The prong is originally about 14" in length and I have either taken links out or added links in to accomodate her neck size as she grows.

We have had nothing but snow here since mid-November and most people out here in hicksville don't bother shovelling their sidewalk. The snow packs down and becomes ice with the warm westerly winds called Chinooks that we get here. All it takes is one snowshoe hare to cross our path, and I can lose my balance from a pull from my pup. When Miya is walking nicely, she does get rewarded with praise and treats (with the help of a clicker and as long as my fingers don't freeze in the -15ºC/8ºF temps). The prong collar and a pair of Kahtoola Microspikes are part of my toolbox just like a pair of Gore-Tex boots, soft shell pants, mittens, toque, and down parka for cold weather walking.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Pinch collar, prong collar, e-collar -- Christmas present for a six month old puppy. 

MOST of us are buying are puppies toys or treats or nothing at all, certainly nothing to pinch or poke or shock the puppy with. 

But, the PETA line was about Santa and his reindeer, whom I am sure they would already like to string up as he has them harnessed to his sleigh and flying around the world in one night. 

I think it was the Christmas present thing and the age of the puppy that got me going.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I live in the snow belt and do not need prong collars on puppies or adults to keep me from going down. 

If you want to use prongs, fine, use them. But people should be able to express an opinion about putting them on puppies.


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## GSDluver4lyfe (Nov 15, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: selzer*I live in the snow belt and do not need prong collars on puppies or adults to keep me from going down. *
> 
> If you want to use prongs, fine, use them. But people should be able to express an opinion about putting them on puppies.


You obviously have NO idea how strong a GSD can be. My dog has pulled me down WITH a prong on dry land. One wrong fall and that could knock me out cold, then what? I risk my dog running away, getting hit, not to mention the health issues that may come from the fall (broken bones, concussion, frostbite ect). 

And come on, like the puppy knows what Christmas is.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Well, some pups have good taste, and they like shinny jewelry and fine electronics


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

And some live in the moment and love a good RMB...


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: GSDluver4lyfe
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: selzer*I live in the snow belt and do not need prong collars on puppies or adults to keep me from going down. *
> ...


I have fallen down without the help of my GSD at my workplace parking lot and it was merely because of the sheet of ice under my feet. I had to go to the chiropractor for about 5 months to get that straightened out (the injury was compounded by that I had been rear ended by an uninsured moron 2 months earlier). I can't imagine how much damage to my back would sustain if my 8 month old GSD pup pulled me on ice right now.

As for the weather north of the 49th parallel, we have about 6.5 months of winter and snow and ice are a fact of life.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I guess I just find it completely unfathomable how people cannot wait to fit their dog for a prong. I have puppy buyers asking me when they can start them on a prong or an e-collar, before they ever take the pup home. I am talking about eight week old puppies. 

I was actually going to take a picture of one of my puppies with a prong collar on a few months ago but decided it would be a bit much. 

My pup is six months old, what size prong collar should I get??? It sounds like it is more the age than the inability to manage the dog. 

For that matter, If you cannot manage the dog without a prong collar on it, what do you do if you have an equipment failure near traffic, in a parking lot, near a cat, etc.

I have carpul tunnel in both wrists and have had surgery on one of them. It is not the end of the world, but I drop things. One of the things that I have dropped more than once is leashes. If I had a dog I could not manage without a prong collar, I would not have a dog because it would have gotten itself smooshed by now. 

Training tools should never be used in liu of training. And this is why putting one on a six month old pup is so troublesome to me. I see people all the time that show up in training classes with their puppy, the next thing you see is the prong collar on the puppy. Two years later that dog is STILL wearing a prong collar. 

When I fondle these puppies' heads and let them jump all over me, and rub their bellies, and someone says, "when should I start using a prong collar on him?" it makes me want to hurl. 

I know that prong collars are only pinch collars, and when they are used correctly they can be more humane that chokes used incorrectly, but it is just a bit much to think about out young puppies.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Winters here seem to be getting shorter. It used to be that the snow fell in October, and it stuck around until April. This year, I do not think it snowed here until December. It will probably be here until April, but we certainly get our share of snow, ice, rain, sleet, wind, nast. 

Today it was raining. After piles of frozen snow everywhere, the kennels are full of a layer of ice on top of frozen packed snow and I think that this rain/ice is worse than if it would just get cold and stay cold.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Well, a lot of people ARE clueless . . . no denying that. I would be concerned also about people asking about prongs and ecollars for 8 week old puppies - but I wouldn't automatically lump everyone that uses ecollars and prongs on the board into the clueless category, and I wouldn't make assumptions about their ability or inability to train a dog based on a simple question. 

It is good to see both sides of an issue, but your posts almost always come across as holier-than-thou, and that does not do much to get people to listen or pay attention.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

A six month old can weigh sixty #'s, pup or not, they are still very strong, headstrong as well.
What I find appalling is that a trainer in my area puts them on toy breeds, and that they are sold for that size.
I took Onyx to puppy class(not knowing better, the trainer was recommended by the vet, and was a GSD owner) she had another 4 month old GSD on a prong the second lesson, it did help to ruin the dog along with her other suggestions to the owner, who eventually returned him to the breeder(who is a great breeder). The breeder had to re-hab him to re-home him. This whole time of our puppy classes the trainer kept suggesting the dog was too much for the owner, and I think she instilled fear in the owner(the dog was from showlines...
The Don Sullivan guy sells a plastic one for this size as well. Calls it the command collar! 
And the dog( miniature goldendoodle) I see, wears it 24/7, probably because of his instructional dvd. The owner went to the above trainer and then used the don s. dvd, after the class ended-she is clueless!
I am not against prongs, and use one on all three when the situation is needed. It is a useful tool. None of mine started wearing one til they were about 8 months.

Sue, you are lucky that your dogs seem to be sensitive to the handler. Not all GSD's are, so we use what works.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Actually, if you agree with using them for any dogs, than big or small should not make a difference. Dogs are dogs. The prong should not be a tool that keeps the dog from dragging you around, but that trains the dog to walk properly -- if that is true then I can see them using them on toy dogs. I am just not exactly sure how you would measure a correction on a toy dog. 

I think that for some, it is self-correcting, the dog reaches the end of the line, feels a pinch and slows. This would work on a toy as well as a large dog. 

My problem is putting them on puppies, because at six months and younger, training should be fun and light. But as this seems to be highly contraversial, I will just agree to disagree about puppies and prongs for the present.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Selzer, is there any way you can have a conversation or debate without being so rude.

I put a prong on my oldest female when she was six months old, it didn't wreck her. A prong is a training tool that you use in conjunction with training. 

If you don't like a prong collar fine, that is your opinion. But many people on the board and in the GSD world use a prong collar and haven't ruined dogs.

There are many ways to train dogs and many tools and training techniques, THERE IS NO ONE TECHNIQUE THAT IS 100% RIGHT OR ONE TOOL THAT IS 100% WRONG.

Selzer I guess you have never had a bad back or bad shoulders. I used the prong on my female so the torn muscles in both of my shoulders would heal. It you find that "unfathomable" that is your problem.

This thread can continue, but NO more personal attacks will be allowed.

Val
Wisc.Tiger - Admin.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I want for you to quote what exactly I said that suggests you would ruin your dog if you used a prong collar, because I cannot find it.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

http://www.leerburg.com shows folks how to properly use a prong collar. I use it on Angeles and Cotton. Angeles actually prefers it to a gentle leader. And Cotton bounces for joy when she see it since prong collar = walk and she loves her walks.

I have seen too many people not use them right. So folks should fit them properly so they go under the chin and behind the back of the ears. They do not go around the neck like a regular collar.


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

Thanks to Selzer, I urge the administrators to close this thread. The original poster will now need to start a new thread, if she/he has not already decided not to return here.

The original poster was clearly a new dog owner, and we should have helped them to understand all the training methods out there, and perhaps express our concern if we had one.

Clearly, no good has been done here to help more dogs out there. Clearly, no good has been done here to help new dog owners understand the discussed training method and alternative methods. Only anger, confusion and misunderstanding has been created, and one more dog owner is out there without our help. One more dog needs training help but couldn't get it because his owner was unnecessarily disrespected.

The language I have seen here should not be permitted. Most of us are here for our love of the German Shepherd Dog. Let's keep it that way.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

i was VERY weary of the prong collar and quit a training class because the trainer was insisting on it. Live and learn. I let Paige wear her fur down to bloody skin with a choke chain, I feel bad for that now that I see the prong is so much better for thier neck.
cesar was a giant at 6 months old, I started Travis on a prong at 6 month too. They look barbaric but is much better on thier neck . I have clients who won't put a choke chain on thier dogs and the dog is killing thier neck straining on a buckle collar!


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

I was in a training class that wouldn't allow prongs and required the use of the gentle leader. Angeles still doesn't like those leaders and it really took extra time to get him refocused vs. trying to slide the thing off his nose. I ended up leaving the class after a couple of lessons. I had already been doing training from the Leerburg DVDs and I felt the methods in the live class were not reinforcing what I had been teaching. Doing the standard commands of sit, down, etc... I didn't need a prong. But when it came to walking I feel that I need to provide the direction he needs UNTIL I feel he can walk without pulling. This spring or if it warms up some (its COLD and SNOWY out there) I do plan to spend more time outside working on his pulling and get him ready for CGC. I did rely too much on the prong collar this passed year and lost focus of the CGC.... and in order for him to pass his CGC test then he needs to walk properly without the use of a gentle leader or a prong.

There are several links provided in this thread that link to leerburg's site and shows how to use a prong collar and the proper way of using them. It is not cruel to use them. It is much safe than a choke collar when used properly.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm sure the OP has left building, probably never to return but here's my 2 cents...



> Quote: Two years later that dog is STILL wearing a prong collar.


I will agree with Selzer on this point. I think people, me included, get comfortable with the prong collar and do not take their dogs to the next level of training. I am at that point with Jax right now. 

Jax was started on a prong at 6 months old. What is the difference if you are choking or pinching your dog? I think that it is a personal preference and in now way does anyone need to be bashed for choosing it. I am working at getting Jax over to a flat buckle but will still take the prong with me when I want added insurance in strange place.

To the OP - please find a trainer to properly fit your puppy with a prong collar if you choose to use a prong. Also, remember that this is a training tool so once you have accomplished what you want to work on continue training her at the next level for a regular collar. I will say that I wish I had done clicker training from the start with Jax. Her level of participation and willingness to follow a command are 100 times better than when training with the prong.


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## gary72 (Dec 7, 2009)

use the gentle leader, it turns there head when there is no slack in the lesh


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think a lot of this depends on priority. I don't need to parade my dogs around in public on flat collars or martingales to feel that they are "trained". I focus on other types of training and sometimes use tools for guaranteed security because yes, I only have so many hours in a day to train and my focus is on other things. If my dog couldn't care less about prong vs. flat collar, why does it even matter that I let him out to potty at a rest stop on a prong collar? "Pet" type training is not my priority right now; I don't generally take my dogs on long public walks or to the pet store. However I will say that I show my dog and have NO problems with him in the ring. But that just proves my point...I've put a lot more time into ring/show training than pet type training so I can show my dog on a dead ring collar in small rings crammed with other GSDs and get wins. There are some things I use a prong collar for that require a prong collar, in those cases the prong is absolutely not any sort of crutch. I have used it in protection and for a few obedience skills.

If someone chooses not to use one or does types of training that do not need one, then by all means don't use one.

I personally choose which methods and tools I used based solely on the dog and the skill I'm training. I don't care what other people think of me and will not decide what tools to use because I feel I have something to prove or disprove to anyone else.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: AngelesVonLobosI was in a training class that wouldn't allow prongs and required the use of the gentle leader. .....


At training we didn't allow prongs or chokes. However, a training place should *not* require a head halter. Things like front clip harness and head halters are only for "problem dogs", with head halters being much more restrictive than the front clips. If you see a class full of dogs with head halters on, then, in my opinion, you have a class full of dogs being restrained rather than trained.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That's very interesting. Petsmart seems to use head halters exclusively to train. My boss has it on a springer spaniel puppy. He works with her alot at home without it so she already knew quite a bit.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

A plain rolled leather collar should be sufficient for a puppy (the dog does feel the tap of the rolled leather collar more than a flat collar) - you can tap it with the leash, for a pup you shouldn't need any "real" corrections at all, just a gentle, "hey you" tug at most, combined with voice.

Head halters are for control. They help with distraction training, but I would recommend them only when other techniques with a rolled collar didn't work, the front clip didn't work, or for certain safety measures (owner with physical limitations). Normally, I would recommend the front clip before the head halter (though I can't get them to fit properly on Max!)

I remember where I used to train, I left for awhile, and so did the trainer that I worked with. When we both came back (at the same time), we looked around and saw all the dogs in head halters. I won't say what we said to each other , almost at the same time....

Training is about two things. Getting your dog to respond to your control, and preferably, the ultimate goal, teaching the dog self control and good judgment. The more you have to exert your control over the dog, less training is being done, and the dog is less trained overall.

In my opinion, the routine practice of putting all dogs in a head halter, isn't dog training, it's dog control. (They did this at a TTouch seminar I went to, I could never figure that one out.) It can be made to work, but in a class that has this policy, I would wonder, how long is it until their dogs are off the head halter?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

For me, right around 6 months is where I find out if I need to go to the prong collar or not. (and usually it seems we do







). Works MUCH better in conjunction with dog classes.........we use them better, fit them properly, and they work better.

It's not so much the inches I need to buy but to make sure I get the collar with the smaller prongs. The ones they sell for large dogs are truthfully larger than we need and don't work as well. Larger links need stronger hands to undo the prongs (these collars do NOT slip over our dogs necks, instead we must undo the links, fit it tight right behind their ears, and then redo the links). Larger links also mean harder to get the correct fit because one more link may have the collar too loose, one less too tight. Smaller the links the more you an adjust properly.

Then you just buy more links as our pups grow to make the collars larger.

http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm has how to fit the collar, but shows the links to the larger collars I do* NOT *like to use. This is a video showing how to fit and remove the collar, also using prongs larger than I like. Smaller prongs are plenty strong but work even better. 
http://www.ehow.com/video_2348829_fit-prong-collar-dog-youre.html


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I agree with the smaller prongs, I have several sizes and never use the larger ones anymore. I think the size is considered "medium". you can just add links if it becomes too small.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

For a long coat, the larger links seem better, Kacie would get tangled in the medium one, so I used the bigger gauge w/ her. Karlo has a thick coat, too and I've found the medium one gets a bit imbedded in his thick neckfur. I have only put a prong on him a few times so far, and my TD wants me to use the medium instead of the large.


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## Guinevere (Jan 11, 2021)

lhczth said:


> ENOUGH!! People should be able to ask about fitting a pinch collar without being attacked. People should be allowed to ask about any training tool without being attacked, told they are cruel sick people, that PETA needs to be called (divide and conquer), and to be made to feel like they are inept trainers or "leaders". This message board was created to help and educate people. Not to belittle them. If I read any more messages like this I will start sending out warnings.
> 
> Do I make myself clear?
> 
> ...


Thank you, I am new and was becoming nervous about posting anything. I joined because the first posts I read were very helpful and positive. Then I read some that were, as you said, attacking and belittling. I really want to feel free to ask anything and get honest helpful answers.


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