# Showline Studs



## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

I am considering using a showline stud, either German or American lines, to improve some conformation flaws, however I seem to be having difficulty finding ones that appeal to me since I tend to prefer working lines. Anybody have any suggestions, nice males that they know of? This won't be happening for a while, so I will be spending a lot of time researching peds, seeing in person, etc. but I need to get started in my research.

Some criteria I'm looking for, strong masculine head, good forehand and reach, correct rear, good health, temperament and drives, hips/elbows. I know you can't have it all, but these are my list toppers that I can think of now.


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## Annikas Mom (Jun 10, 2004)

Geronimo vom Olympus http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/124262.html

Zeek vom Olympus
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/124258.html

I have had the pleasure of spending quite a bit of time with both of these boys and I adore them.


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

I like Geronimo. Hmm, California is far... but I do have an uncle and cousins who live around San Francisco!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Many breeders will not "cross over" - I know some excellent dogs whose owners will not breed even a well bred OFA cert German showline female if she is not titled under the SV system...

Umzilla on this board has a male who seems very versatile, titled, and has been bred to an untitled working line female, and is in IL - so I would recommend contacting her for assistance and to see her male.

Lee


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What specifically are you trying to improve?


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## GSDextrodinaire (Dec 15, 2002)

Take a look at ObiWan From TheisHof. Obi has an OUTSTANDING stable temperament, good working ability, very very nice looking. He has a bit of a short croup, but his other attributes are worth it! I spent some time with Obi in 2007 and was very impressed with him, and I am not easily impressed when it comes to show lines.

I second Geronimo!! He is a good strong dog, who produces the same.


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## Annikas Mom (Jun 10, 2004)

Another vote for ObiWan!! Very nice boy!!


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: LiesjeWhat specifically are you trying to improve?


I am trying to improve the front overall, and get a little more reach to the gait. But I don't want to lose things like a strong head, as a lot of showlines I've seen have snipey heads, both German (females mostly) and American.

I also like umzilla's boy Fritz, he is on my potential list. Haven't been able to get out to meet him in person yet though.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Off topic, are you coming to the Premier next month?


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I sent you an email.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I love the sire of my dog, he is Can show lines but has super temperment and I can attest to the strong temperment of his offspring. I have 1, my daughter has 1 and several others I have met. Super strong heads, most show line people don't like my dog's head, too large and heavy, but i love it, Great confidence, no fear of guns, people, places or things. Herding instinct passed, with strong comments and I have been told by several Schutzhund trainers mine could get at least a 1, maybe not quite drivey enough for more, but bold and brave enough. He is 13 months. Anyway check out 
http://www.hellwiggshepherds.com/
Sire is Kai, my dog is Ty, and my daughter's is Sin. It is Kai I am recommending, at least check him out.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

You know I'd steal Ty! Always loved Kai! And Sin is to die for!!!

The Hellwigg dogs = awesome!


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

Thanks everybody, these are all great suggestions for me to look into! I knew that there were more nice dogs out there, I was just having a hard time finding them.


> Originally Posted By: LiesjeOff topic, are you coming to the Premier next month?


Nope, can't make it this year. I just starting doing UKC stuff this year, so now that I know more about it, I can plan ahead for next year! May have to hire a handler too now that I have two dogs that I am showing. Sadly you can't handle two at the same time, and getting a win just isn't as special for me if I'm not handling my own dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Take this with a grain of salt b/c I know very little about conformation and breeding, but I was messing around last night and found a kennel that appears to have German show lines but they look angled more like American lines and don't have the roach. It looks like they show their dogs in the AKC ring and some are SG or V rated and CH or Ch-pointed.

I don't know anything about the kennel or the people, just was looking at it and was interesting that their dogs look successful in both rings (so they'd probably do great in UKC).

http://www.estahaus.com/


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I looked at Estahaus seriously, and inquired about his dogs, but he never answered the questions I ACTUALLY asked....and his response to my inquiring about health concerns turned me off.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Good to know!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I would like to add that the overall tone from OTHERS about Estahaus is pretty neutral. "You get what you get"....I really haven't found people in recent years that have any of his dogs....if I knew of any I would have asked them some questions and may have proceeded then.


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## luvsables (May 7, 2007)

Isn't your female already pregnant and due soon? and you are already looking at other studs.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Denise,

Part of me can understand. We have breedings (short list) planned out through next year, if all works.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Indeed...it's always a good idea to 'look ahead' IMO. Better than doing it later and feeling "rushed"


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## umzilla (Nov 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Wolfstraum
> 
> Umzilla on this board has a male who seems very versatile, titled, and has been bred to an untitled working line female, and is in IL - so I would recommend contacting her for assistance and to see her male.
> 
> Lee


Thanks Lee - 

All of the pictures I've been posting (the J litter) are from that breeding, so you can get an idea of what this particular cross has produced at this age. I also have a large amount of photos in a photo gallery of the litter on my website. These are excellent pups - lots of bone, great heads, good pigment, and lots of attitude. Some crosses may not work, but some will. (I know alot of people don't condone crossing lines, and I am NOT trying to start a debate, just stating my opinion that it can work). I am keeping a boy from this breeding --- wanting to keep a certain girl too if the truth be known -- she's really nice ---but I have to get keeping her too past my husband.









You will find alot of opinions when it comes to breeding. Do your research, know YOUR dog, and know the dog you are breeding her to. Looking way in advance and weighing things out is much better than making a quick choice down the road.

Christine


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## umzilla (Nov 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: shepherdmom12I just starting doing UKC stuff this year, so now that I know more about it, I can plan ahead for next year! May have to hire a handler too now that I have two dogs that I am showing.


FYI - you cannot have a professional handler in the UKC conformation ring. Even if you aren't paying them for a particular show, if they have worked as a pro handler _anywhere_, they can't handle in UKC conformation unless they own or co-own the dog. They are really strict about it. 

Off the overall topic, I know, but just thought I'd mention that since it came up.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Smithie86Denise,
> 
> Part of me can understand. We have breedings (short list) planned out through next year, if all works.


Me too, though I am already starting to look at young dogs to possibly breed my D litter girls too if all goes well over the next few years. This is the right way to go about breeding, always looking forward.


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: luvsablesIsn't your female already pregnant and due soon? and you are already looking at other studs.


The pregnancy is not confirmed, we may have missed. Going to get an ultrasound this week, I couldn't make it out much last week, blew out a tire on the car. I am looking at studs for next year, or possibly later, depending on what mother nature decides. I want to have at least 2 studs picked out, in case one becomes unavailable, or something doesn't work out. I like to have things planned out well ahead of time, as otherwise my life is too chaotic!


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

umzillaFYI - you cannot have a professional handler in the UKC conformation ring. Even if you aren't paying them for a particular show said:


> anywhere[/i], they can't handle in UKC conformation unless they own or co-own the dog. They are really strict about it.


Good to know! I doubt that I would actually hire somebody, but I may have to throw a family member or friend some cash to come along and handle if my dogs had to go up against each other.


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## TRITON (May 10, 2005)

I second Christine's male Fritz...nice male, I've known him for quite a few years now. Excellent temperament and nerves, full time house dog, excellent family dog. He's SchH3, plus many other titles in SDA. He's close by also...are you planning on going to see the other males then you are looking at?

I agree with Sue and Lisa. I also look at breedings down the road too...part of having a breeding program is to make those long term goals and plans


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: TRITONare you planning on going to see the other males then you are looking at?


Yes, plan on meeting the potential suitors over the summer. I have to meet the boys to make my decisions. Pictures can be decieving, so I have to meet them in person.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

How about Apollo von Nimbus he is in IN at Castlebrook

Pedigree:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/422058.html

Castlebrook
http://castlebrookshepherds.net/males

If you are going next year the Apollo/Yentle son Enoch.


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