# Is my German Shepherd that small?



## JONAKAI (Nov 23, 2015)

My 6 year old female GSD is 5 years old. Everyone with basic knowledge of the breed is astonished when I tell them she's 6. Isn't breed standard roughly 50/70ish lbs for females??


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## JONAKAI (Nov 23, 2015)

Edit* she's 6, not 5 lol


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

think your life is tough, my MALE is only 22.5" and 54lbs on average. my "large" male is still just 60lbs. most people are accustomed to seeing gsd that are over standard and have no knowledge of the many different lines. blows my mind that dogs of the same breed can range from 45lbs to 145lbs.

I'm sure your girl is fine and beautiful just the way she is.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

She's fine.

They're not supposed to be really large.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

The male GSD I had for over 14 years ranged between 48-54 lbs his entire life. But, he was 110lbs of bad dog force in his mind and he guarded me and mine like a bashee.....


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

I was with my GSD (female, 107lb at the time) at Starbucks once. Lady walks by, "OH MY GOD, your dog is so DAINTY!" LOL


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## truckola (Nov 3, 2013)

My girl is 65-68 lbs. Had someone ask where I got the miniature Shepherd.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

How much does she weigh?


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

LuvShepherds said:


> How much does she weigh?


Ditto. And how tall is she at the withers?



> *Size, Proportion, Substance: *The desired *height *for males at the top of the highest point of the shoulder blade is 24 to 26 inches; and for bitches, 22 to 24 inches. The German Shepherd Dog is longer than tall, with the most desirable *proportion *as 10 to 8½. The length is measured from the point of the prosternum or breastbone to the rear edge of the pelvis, the ischial tuberosity. The desirable long proportion is not derived from a long back, but from overall length with relation to height, which is achieved by length of forequarter and length of withers and hindquarter, viewed from the side.


 And the German Shepherd is considered a medium-size dog. Everyone thinks they're supposed to be large to extra-large, which is incorrect. These aren't Great Danes, Mastiffs or Rottweilers...and for good reason! Ha.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

My female is V rated, 22.5" and 50lbs.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

SV Standard:

*General appearance*

The German Shepherd Dog is medium-size, slightly elongated, powerful and well-muscled, with dry bone and firm overall structure.

*Size/weight*

Male dogs:
Height at the withers: 60 cm to 65 cm
Weight: 30 kg to 40 kg

Female dogs:
Height at the withers: 55 cm to 60 cm
Weight: 22 kg to 32 kg


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## JONAKAI (Nov 23, 2015)

I'm not sure how high she measures.... But she is 57 lbs according to the scale at petsmart... She looks normal to me. I've seen other German Shepherds the same size and they supposedly weigh 70/80lbs... I like her build, she's 6 and super athletic. She outruns those 80 pounders lol


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## JONAKAI (Nov 23, 2015)

But anyway, thank you everyone for your answers it put me at ease. Just wanted to make sure she wasn't small do to bad dog parenting by her previous owners/has health issues.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I thought they were supposed to be a little smaller (females 55-75 lb).

My girl is 24" high and 75 lb. She is teetering at the very top end of the standard if I'm remembering correctly.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

WateryTart said:


> I thought they were supposed to be a little smaller (females 55-75 lb).
> 
> My girl is 24" high and 75 lb. She is teetering at the very top end of the standard if I'm remembering correctly.


 Translated to help!

Female dogs:
*Height at the withers: 21.6535" to 23.622"* (55 cm to 60 cm)
*Weight: 48.5017 lbs to 70.5479 lbs* (22 kg to 32 kg)

My Nara is also 24" and probably 75 lbs or less now that her diet is working.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

counter said:


> Female dogs:
> *Height at the withers: 21.6535" to 23.622"* (55 cm to 60 cm)
> *Weight: 48.5017 lbs to 70.5479 lbs* (22 kg to 32 kg)


Thanks! I thought I had read that the AKC standard went up to 75 lb for females. I might be remembering that incorrectly. The vet said she's actually in good shape, but I'd already been doing some experimentation with our raw diet in order to improve it plus cut back to smaller portions. She's got a big frame for an ASL dog, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up hovering between 70 and 75.


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## finndog (Nov 20, 2015)

She looks small on average for the breed but i don't buy into this 'standard' nonsense.

They are rules drawn up by people who have no business deciding what is and isn't normal.

Some dogs are big and some are small. Not conforming to what some **** in a suit writes down as 'correct' which is only given credence because of other douches in suits shouldn't matter.

A GSD is a GSD, as long as it is healthy and in proportion with itself then i don't think it matters what size they are.

My boy now is nearly 22" at the withers at 19 weeks, and was 44lb at 16 weeks but he's lean as anything.

My mum's dog is 23 3/4 at the withers at 4 years old but you wouldn't know it when he barks.

I had another that was 30" at the withers, and have owned another girl who was built, acted and looked more like a collie but was pure bred from a great working line there in the UK.

All had their own personalities, all were healthy, in proportion and loving and that's all that matters


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

:rofl:

The "rules" were made up by the founder of the breed. Oye....


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

WateryTart said:


> Thanks! I thought I had read that the AKC standard went up to 75 lb for females. I might be remembering that incorrectly. The vet said she's actually in good shape, but I'd already been doing some experimentation with our raw diet in order to improve it plus cut back to smaller portions. She's got a big frame for an ASL dog, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up hovering between 70 and 75.


When I first bought Nara and came across the AKC breed standard, the weight was in there. I remember that clearly. But I think the weight was just an Americanized translation of the SV/German standard, so it was a rounded up/down number from what I posted above. Years later when I went back to look at the AKC standard to copy/paste on this forum to help others who thought their dog was too small or too large, I noticed that the weight was removed and now it only lists height as the proper measurement for determining a dog's size. Makes sense, because you will have extremely thin or overly-obese fat dogs of different heights. People will fatten up their dogs to be able to say that their dog is SO BIG at 125 lbs, when it really should weigh 80 lbs. Or you'll have people that will swear on their life that their dog is so BIG and HUGE and weighs 110 lbs, and then when you put it on a scale, it is only 75 lbs. Weight is a very fickle thing when it comes to humans and their dogs. "Bigger is better" is not better most of the time, especially when it causes humans to deceive themselves and deceive others in an attempt to stroke their ego or make others feel inferior. Ridiculous. 

I'd rather be a wide receiver or running back or quarterback instead of an offensive or defensive lineman any day! Sprinter or distance runner or champion boxer over sumo wrestler too! Look at 99.999% of your soccer players (Euro football) and how in shape you have to be to play that sport (MY SPORT for 30 years!). You don't see many, if any, fat soccer players, and for a very good reason. I want my GSD to be like that! Big-boned is one thing. Fat is another. Most "BIG" dogs are just fat and their humans/owners are in denial. I was one of those owners with Nara. So glad I found this forum and changed my mindset before it negatively affected Nara's health and longevity.


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## finndog (Nov 20, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> :rofl:
> 
> The "rules" were made up by the founder of the breed. Oye....


And?

They are upheld by **** in suits.

Breed standards are retarded because a German Shepherd that is healthy is classed as 'faulty' under them if it falls outside of made up, abstract parameters.

It's like saying Tyson Fury is a freak with faults because he's way above average height.

And you can stop now responding to everything i post in every single thread.

You're wrong and no amount of silly emoticons make you right.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

As mentioned - the standard is what DEFINES the breed, and it was written by the founder of the breed who had a specific vision in mind of what a GSD should be. How some people _interprete_ the standard is another issue. 

JON, you'll find that people have a very distorted view of what is 'normal' for a GSD, and many believe that a GSD is supposed to be huge, and often greatly over-estimate their dogs' weight. My GSD is over standard at 27.5" and 90 lbs - yet I often hear comments like "Nice dog! I used to have a GSD that weighed 120lb! You know, one of the REAL German Shepherds". Comments at which I try not to snicker, but just nod my head out of politeness. I doubt their dog weighed that much, they are probably over-estimating, and if my dog is not a real GSD, I'm not sure what he is . . .


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

counter said:


> When I first bought Nara and came across the AKC breed standard, the weight was in there. I remember that clearly. But I think the weight was just an Americanized translation of the SV/German standard, so it was a rounded up/down number from what I posted above. Years later when I went back to look at the AKC standard to copy/paste on this forum to help others who thought their dog was too small or too large, I noticed that the weight was removed and now it only lists height as the proper measurement for determining a dog's size. Makes sense, because you will have extremely thin or overly-obese fat dogs of different heights. People will fatten up their dogs to be able to say that their dog is SO BIG at 125 lbs, when it really should weigh 80 lbs. Or you'll have people that will swear on their life that their dog is so BIG and HUGE and weighs 110 lbs, and then when you put it on a scale, it is only 75 lbs. Weight is a very fickle thing when it comes to humans and their dogs. "Bigger is better" is not better most of the time, especially when it causes humans to deceive themselves and deceive others in an attempt to stroke their ego or make others feel inferior. Ridiculous.
> 
> I'd rather be a wide receiver or running back or quarterback instead of an offensive or defensive lineman any day! Sprinter or distance runner or champion boxer over sumo wrestler too! Look at 99.999% of your soccer players (Euro football) and how in shape you have to be to play that sport (MY SPORT for 30 years!). You don't see many, if any, fat soccer players, and for a very good reason. I want my GSD to be like that! Big-boned is one thing. Fat is another. Most "BIG" dogs are just fat and their humans/owners are in denial. I was one of those owners with Nara. So glad I found this forum and changed my mindset before it negatively affected Nara's health and longevity.


I hope you aren't saying I am trying to justify making and keeping my dog fat. (I can't tell. I'm posting pre-coffee.)

My vet is monitoring her weight because I saw the 75 lb (up from a visibly underweight 65, keeping weight on that dog pre-raw was a feat) and said, "Whoa!" The vet said she's good where she is, but I predict that one result of our food experimentation will be a gradual slight trimming down. However, she has a larger frame than many of the other pups in her age group, so I'm keeping in mind that I shouldn't go too far in the other direction.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

finndog said:


> And?
> 
> They are upheld by **** in suits.
> 
> ...


That word is seriously offensive.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

finndog said:


> And?
> 
> They are upheld by **** in suits.
> 
> ...


First, let's look at my posting history. There is one thread that asked me a question and I answered it. You then became rude. I have not bothered with you until this morning when I asked you to explain your qualifications as we on this silly board are pedantic, stupid, etc and greatly need your vast knowledge. Then I responded to this lovely little post. If you don't want people to question you, don't post. See how simple that is?

No, emoticons do not make me right. Anymore than highly offensive words and name calling make you right. 

Have a great day.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

WateryTart said:


> That word is seriously offensive.


This guy is just seriously offensive. Take a look at his posts over the last couple of days. Time to just use that nifty ignore button and not engage it.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

WateryTart said:


> I hope you aren't saying I am trying to justify making and keeping my dog fat. (I can't tell. I'm posting pre-coffee.)


 What the...?










Definitely drink some coffee first! I'll join ya! I'm sitting at my desk at work with a fresh cup right now: Organic/Fair Trade Bolivian Blend from Trader Joes, with some caramel creamer and tons of sugar added. Ha.

I was agreeing with you and making a general statement for anyone else who reads this thread. I've been dealing with ignorant people for the last 8 years with Nara. People telling me she's big. People telling me she's small. People saying she's a mutt for being so tiny. I don't think people even know what a GSD is supposed to look like anymore because they're so used to these poorly-bred MUTANTS.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

finndog said:


> It's like saying Tyson Fury is a freak with faults because he's way above average height.


 Ah, a fellow boxing fan! Nice. I've been following Tyson Fury's career ever since he started getting media mention these last few years in the US. Nice to see him named after my favorite boxer of all-time: Iron Mike Tyson. I look forward to see if he can finally be the person to dethrone the Klitschkos. He reminds me of an even larger "freak" Nikolai Valuev, the 7' giant.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

counter said:


> What the...?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just making sure! I'm seriously undercaffeinated and read the post first one way and then the other and decided I'd just ask you and then go get some coffee!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> This guy is just seriously offensive. Take a look at his posts over the last couple of days. Time to just use that nifty ignore button and not engage it.


I've been offline for a long weekend. I'll have to have a look. He sounds interesting, like a zoo exhibit.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

JONAKAI said:


> My 6 year old female GSD is 5 years old. Everyone with basic knowledge of the breed is astonished when I tell them she's 6. Isn't breed standard roughly 50/70ish lbs for females??


Yes, that is the breed standard. But people are clueless.

I've heard everything from your dogs are small to your dogs are huge to I owned a 200# blah blah blah.

The vet receptionist thinks Seger is huge and will continue to grow. He's 2 and weighs 77#. People think Jax is small. She's 1/2" over standard and would dwarf most working line females even though she only weight 64#.

Just smile, explain the standard and move on.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

WateryTart said:


> Just making sure! I'm seriously undercaffeinated and read the post first one way and then the other and decided I'd just ask you and then go get some coffee!


 Then CHEERS! Coffee for us both it is!!!











Coffee makes me happ-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!..............


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Cheers! I love sipping on a cup of really really good black coffee. Preferably light roast.

Deliciousness and comprehension aid all in one.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

My nearly six month old female is 42lbs, I expect her to be somewhere in the 55-60lb range full grown and I wish she were smaller! My adult 3 year old male is 25 at the whither and 75lbs. GSD's are meant to be a medium sized dog, not giagantic 100lb plus brutes. Can you imagine a solder trying to carry a 120lb GSD or one just being able to work the way it needed to. Bigger is not better. An adult female in the 50lb range is perfectly normal.


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## finndog (Nov 20, 2015)

counter said:


> Ah, a fellow boxing fan! Nice. I've been following Tyson Fury's career ever since he started getting media mention these last few years in the US. Nice to see him named after my favorite boxer of all-time: Iron Mike Tyson. I look forward to see if he can finally be the person to dethrone the Klitschkos. He reminds me of an even larger "freak" Nikolai Valuev, the 7' giant.


Haha yes.

I'm also from Manchester, Uk, so i want him to win this weekend but i think he's well out of his depth.

Klitschko is a monster and technically very good. I just hope it's a good fight!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

finndog said:


> Haha yes.
> 
> I'm also from Manchester, Uk, so i want him to win this weekend but i think he's well out of his depth.
> 
> Klitschko is a monster and technically very good. I just hope it's a good fight!


I hope he wins. Boxing has lost its fanbase, at least over here, due to the recent popularity of MMA/UFC, and because the heavyweight division has been dominated by Russians/Ukrainians for a decade or longer. A lot of their fights are in Europe instead of the US. No one even seems to care about boxing anymore. I like MMA too, but I've been following the history of boxing since the early 80s thanks to my Dad's and Grandfather's love for the sport. My Father used to see Rocky Marciano fight, and Rocky was his all-time fav, and he told me he was really the greatest ever, even over Ali. I still think Tyson, in his prime with his original trainers, would've destroyed them all. But that's a topic for another thread! Ha.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I am a fan of Peet's, myself.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I almost adopted a female rescue a few year ago who was 2 and weighed 42 lbs, and was from a known breeder. They had so many applications for a small GSD by the time I got my paperwork in, she was adopted.


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## JONAKAI (Nov 23, 2015)

JONAKAI said:


> My 6 year old female GSD is 5 years old. Everyone with basic knowledge of the breed is astonished when I tell them she's 6. Isn't breed standard roughly 50/70ish lbs for females??


I completely butchered this sentence lol I meant to say my 6 year old GSD is 6 yrs old and weights 57/60 lbs and everyone things she's small for her breed.


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## Augustine (Nov 22, 2014)

JONAKAI said:


> I completely butchered this sentence lol I meant to say my 6 year old GSD is 6 yrs old and weights 57/60 lbs and everyone things she's small for her breed.


Definitely not. These days, a lot of people think GSDs are "supposed" to be (or are better off being) a giant breed, exceeding 90+ pounds, which is an extremely ignorant and irresponsible way of thinking.

57-60 pounds is a perfectly average weight for a female GSD. My pup recently turned a year old and is going to be around 65 pounds once fully grown. 

Small for a female GSD would be closer to 50 pounds or less.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

I might just have a standard sized GSD female. Charlie is 22 in at withers and 57lbs.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Man, my dog is a freaking GIANT!

I should measure her height at the withers again. I'm honestly surprised by how big she's gotten because most ASL females just aren't that tall. I'd say most of the fully mature females I see in training are an inch or two shorter and probably in the 65 lb range.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

WateryTart said:


> Man, my dog is a freaking GIANT!
> 
> I should measure her height at the withers again. I'm honestly surprised by how big she's gotten because most ASL females just aren't that tall. I'd say most of the fully mature females I see in training are an inch or two shorter and probably in the 65 lb range.


It seems that most American lines are longer and lankier than Euro lines. I've been researching GSDs and Dobermans for years, comparing both American and Euro lines in these two breeds. The lines from Germany are usually shorter, stockier, more muscular and compact. Nara is WGSL and is 24" and 77 lbs on a diet to bring her down to 70 lbs. I have a thread going in the pics section from her 8th birthday this past Sunday, and though she looks pudgy, she's also broader with a deep chest. Kaze, who is 26" and 90 lbs, has a harness that fits perfectly on daintier Nara. That's how thick and stout she is.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Late to the party here. But I am currently reading "Dogs of War" and my understanding is that spec weight for GSD is 75 lbs?? I've seen 75 lbs, GSD's and, they just look "tiny" to me?? And for the record "Rocky's" not fat, and I don't have a puffed out chest! He's just a big freaking WL GSD. But given a choice I'd much rather "rappel" down a cliff with a "75 lbs dog than a 116 lbs dog! 

But if spec for the military is 75 lbs?? That may be why the military is turning to Malinois?? My Boxer "girl" was 65 lbs and she was freaking tiny! 

But that is pretty much Mal size ...just saying.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Chip18 said:


> Late to the party here. But I am currently reading "Dogs of War" and my understanding is that spec weight for GSD is 75 lbs?? I've seen 75 lbs, GSD's and, they just look "tiny" to me?? And for the record "Rocky's" not fat, and I don't have a puffed out chest! He's just a big freaking WL GSD. But given a choice I'd much rather "rappel" down a cliff with a "75 lbs dog than a 116 lbs dog!
> 
> But if spec for the military is 75 lbs?? That may be why the military is turning to Malinois?? My Boxer "girl" was 65 lbs and she was freaking tiny!
> 
> But that is pretty much Mal size ...just saying.


I was able to dig this up on the Malinois:



> Weight Male 25–30 kg (55–66 lb)
> Female 20–25 kg (44–55 lb)
> 
> Height Male 61–66 cm (24–26 in)
> Female 56–61 cm (22–24 in)


 Looks like the max a male Malinois should weigh is 66 lbs, which would be a BIG Mal under those terms. My huskies weigh 62 and 65 lbs and they seem tiny compared to my 90 lb GSD. So yeah, if you are used to a 116 lb dog, a 75 lb "spec" GSD would seem nearly half the size. Ha! But there's a reason (well, many reasons) they seek MWDs to be 75 lbs and not 100+. All dogs need love, be it small, standard, or over the standard. No harm in taking in the runt or the brute. It's better than letting them get put down. But we all should defend the "law of the land" when it comes to GSDs. The standard is the standard for a reason. My girl and boy are both outside the standard, but here I am defending the standard because I've come to understand why it exists.

Many people speed while driving. Some older or cautious people drive way too slow and make other drivers very angry. The speed limit is the MAX speed you're allowed to drive according to the law. If it is 55 mph, going 56 is breaking the law. People don't seem to realize this. If I set cruise control at 55, I will have people tailgate me trying to force me to drive faster (even if they have a passing lane or zone). They're trying to force me to break the law through intimidation. I would be the one who gets the speeding ticket, all because they want to get someplace faster. I want to drive safe now that I'm older and usually have my wife and kids in the car. I used to drive aggressively and had plenty of road rage incidents when I was younger, up until I got a reckless driving ticket with my wife and young daughter on board for speeding 82 mph in a 65 mph zone. I had to go to court to defend myself. That's what it took for me to wake up and slow down, finally realizing that I'm responsible for the safety of other people's precious lives (my family and the strangers in cars around me). That was 8-9 years ago, and I've rarely sped ever since. I now understand why "the standard" exists, even though I've broken it many times and still occasionally do (though very rarely and sometimes accidentally). 

Does it mean you can't speed? No. Does it mean you shouldn't speed? Yes!

Not the best comparison, but it's the first one that came to mind.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Meant to add before I went off on my driving analogy tangent:

King Kaze is 26" and 90 lbs the last time I measured him. He's put on a TON of muscle in the last 1.5 years, as he came to me with barely any. When people see him, the first thing they comment on is how HUGE he is. I'll admit, where I live, unless you have a Dane, Mastiff, or Rott, I have yet to see a dog bigger than him. It's mainly because of his proportions, and also the fact that looks can be deceiving. He has a huge head and long neck, his tail touches the ground, and his paws are twice the size of my other 3 dogs' paws. The rest of his body is probably a normal-size, within-standard, GSD male body. He looks like he is in proportion. All of our dogs are within 2 inches of each other at the withers, but when Kaze stands next to them, his head is literally a full head length (8" to 10" or more) above/over all 3 other dogs' heads. He's truly a mutant. Ha!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Chip18 said:


> Late to the party here.


And yes, you were very late to this party. I was wondering where you were at. I knew you'd chime in eventually. It's good to have all sides represented, to give readers multiple views based on varying experiences and research into these matters. It's almost like you're playing Devil's Advocate, which is not a bad thing. There's a nice group of us that have been "partying" together on this forum for so long (years!) that we have zero issues remaining civil with one another, even if/when we don't see eye to eye on whatever the topic is. I get sad when you don't come talk about Boxers and your OS GSD. I do. I really do.

oke:
:thumbup:
:tongue:
:surrender:
:toasting:
:hugs:
:spittingcoffee:
:snowmen:
:boy_snowman:

:dancingtree:
eace:


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

finndog said:


> She looks small on average for the breed but i don't buy into this 'standard' nonsense.
> 
> They are rules drawn up by people who have no business deciding what is and isn't normal.
> 
> ...


I see what you're saying in the beginning of your post, but I have to disagree with your sentiment. The rules were devised using the standards set forth by the founder of the breed - they describe what is considered a German Shepherd Dog. And that's not to say that those dogs that fall outside the range are not great dogs, because they might be. But since we can't have everyone breeding their dogs all willy nilly (which happens a lot anyway, but in everyone's better interest it shouldn't), using the standard as a measuring tool helps to ensure that the best representatives of the breed are the ones to pass on their genes and keep the German Shepherd Dog as close as possible to what it has always supposed to have been.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LOL glad to chime in! But I do get the standards! I saw one picture of a military spec GSD and the guy was running through tires with his GSD on his shoulders!!! Bet that dog was not 113 lbs! 

Not even counting weight Rocky is just seriously a "long" dog! I'm pretty fit but in 8 years I've never been able to pick him up! Much less put him on my shoulders and move! 

My Boxer was (Girl) was pretty compact and the females Boxers are freaking "tiny" compared to the males! But I was stunned when I became aware that the Mal's weighed barely more than she did???

75 lbs is a pretty tight spec for GSD's, I know 90 lbs WL dogs are not uncommon and I'd be curious how many owners of those guys can actually lift them?? So maybe that alone is why the turn towards Mal's by the military?? 

So I was kinda stunned when I realized my "little girl" weighted the same as a Mal?? Still I don't know how confident I'd be in my girls ability to sniff out a IDE??

Pretty short attention span in American line Boxers! Kinda like ... yeah there are explosive here ... but is that ball??? 

Best for all involved to keep Boxers off the battlefield these days! 

And in "Boxer's" defense the Euro's are to big!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Chip18 said:


> LOL glad to chime in! But I do get the standards! I saw one picture of a military spec GSD and the guy was running through tires with his GSD on his shoulders!!! Bet that dog was not 113 lbs!
> 
> Not even counting weight Rocky is just seriously a "long" dog! I'm pretty fit but in 8 years I've never been able to pick him up! Much less put him on my shoulders and move!
> 
> ...


 So yeah I certainly agree with you, and I'm pretty sure a 113 lb dog cannot keep up with a 75 lb dog. That's probably why. It would be like expecting an 300-lb offensive or defensive lineman to be able to run long distances at high speeds to keep up with a 180-lb wide receiver or running back. Probably 1% or less of all NFL players in those positions could keep up. The same would go for working dogs. I'm sure there's some awesome, big, strong, oversized working line GSDs out there who might be able to do the job, but they would be an exception to the rule and definitely not the norm. And like you said, if the handler had to carry the dog long distances, they would want to carry 75 lbs instead of 113 lbs. I know from working with and training future Spec Ops Airmen (PJ, CCT, SOWT, TACP, EOD and SERE) that their gear alone can weigh 125+ lbs, so couple that with a 100+ lb dog and we'd be asking too much, right!? Haha.

Kaze is 90 lbs and I have no problem picking him up. I've never really tried to walk a distance with him (haven't ever needed to, but now you have me curious to try), but I do pick him up from time to time for various reasons. I'm fit too, but I'm a former soccer player and long distance runner and was never a weight lifter. I'm not as strong as I'd like to be, but I can take the dogs for 10-mile runs and let them set the pace, and I will turn 41 in March. Lol!

And from what I remember back when the switch from GSDs to Mals started happening, the reasons given were that Mals were cheaper to purchase, were more daring/dangerous, and they would act/react first and think second (GSDs would supposedly think then react, being the more intelligent breed). I'm sure there were more reasons, but my old brain can't recollect them at this moment. I can say that I never heard the size of the dogs being a reason for making the change. I also remember talking to LE and MWD handlers a few years into this "experiment" and all of them told me how they wished we never made the switch. They all felt that, overall, GSDs were the better breed for the job. Now, I'm not a K9 handler, but I know there are some on this forum. It would make more sense to hear from them, since they probably have 10+ years of working with Mals, and possibly GSDs too, so they would be a better source to draw the comparisons and conclusions.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I don't know where the K9 GSD's are coming from?? But the military has it's own breeding programs for MAL's.

Vets Adopt Pets - Military Working Dog Breeding Program

Most likely the "pet' market has "trashed" the GSD's as far as the military is concerned?? Most likely ten years from now the cycle will turn when goofy, people friendly, 100 lbs+ Mal's start showing up??


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Chip18 said:


> I don't know where the K9 GSD's are coming from?? But the military has it's own breeding programs for MAL's.
> 
> Vets Adopt Pets - Military Working Dog Breeding Program
> 
> Most likely the "pet' market has "trashed" the GSD's as far as the military is concerned?? Most likely ten years from now the cycle will turn when goofy, people friendly, 100 lbs+ Mal's start showing up??


 The Air Force runs the program on Military Working Dogs out of Lackland AFB, TX. That same program that is now filled with Mals used to be filled with GSDs. They buy the dogs and get them fostered as pups, then trained and tested before distributing them to the Navy, Army and Marines. Of course, they keep some for the Air Force as well. Ha! I think the police buy their dogs from whatever trusted connections they have with local breeders or even international sellers.


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## jazzgirl (May 25, 2011)

Sheesh! Welcome to the USA, where bigger is ALWAYS better. My rescued GSDs, all male, have ranged in weight from 85lbs. to 95 lbs. A woman who was also a GSD owner once said to me (looking at my dog with a sneer), "He's so _small_!" I asked her what her dog weighed and she said (proudly), "120 lbs!" As a rule I avoid this kind of fol-de-rol, but I suggested she have a look at the book by the Captain, who developed the German Shepherd Dog, and see what the breed standards are. Grrrrrr!


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## Jennperry (Nov 10, 2014)

My GSD is 1 year and 5 months old. Her mama was 90lbs her papa was 120. Sura is roughly 95lbs and we are only half way through her filling out year. She is on a good diet we give her only "blue wilderness" salmon she has serious skin issues and absolutely no people food.

Everyone thinks she's a male and she thinks she's still a lap dog LOL. BUT she's our baby. I just wish we didn't have to giver her daily doses of benedryl.


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## JD's Dad (Dec 7, 2015)

Nah, she's fine...and gorgeous too. My JD is a 5 yr old male and tips the scale around a buck forty five. All that matters is that she has that GSD heart and soul.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

JD's Dad said:


> Nah, she's fine...and gorgeous too. My JD is a 5 yr old male and tips the scale around a buck forty five. All that matters is that she has that GSD heart and soul.


 That doesn't sound normal


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## KileysCritters (Nov 5, 2010)

The breed standard is 65-90 lbs and doesn't differentiate between males and females, though it's generally accepted that females will fall towards the bottom of the range and males towards the top. Most Americans are accustomed to seeing backyard bred, oversized 120+ lb GSDs that are bred to be that size primarily for the purpose of intimidation. Just as with people though, the more weight one is carrying the more stress on the joints. If your dog is on the smaller side, I would count it a blessing.

FWIW, my female is ~65 lbs and my two males are ~75 lbs. They are all kept fit and trim (at the "ideal" level on the body composition chart).


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

KileysCritters said:


> The breed standard is 65-90 lbs and doesn't differentiate between males and females, though it's generally accepted that females will fall towards the bottom of the range and males towards the top. Most Americans are accustomed to seeing backyard bred, oversized 120+ lb GSDs that are bred to be that size primarily for the purpose of intimidation. Just as with people though, the more weight one is carrying the more stress on the joints. If your dog is on the smaller side, I would count it a blessing.
> 
> FWIW, my female is ~65 lbs and my two males are ~75 lbs. They are all kept fit and trim (at the "ideal" level on the body composition chart).


 While there are some over-sized GSDs out there, people add 20-30 pounds on the weight of the dog by pure perception -- I just saw this 130 pound GSD!!! The dog is really 92 pounds, but his pointy ears, and commanding presence just makes him look bigger.

If a GSD is truly 145 pounds, it is either a mongrel, or it is fat.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

KileysCritters said:


> The breed standard is 65-90 lbs and doesn't differentiate between males and females, though it's generally accepted that females will fall towards the bottom of the range and males towards the top. Most Americans are accustomed to seeing backyard bred, oversized 120+ lb GSDs that are bred to be that size primarily for the purpose of intimidation. Just as with people though, the more weight one is carrying the more stress on the joints. If your dog is on the smaller side, I would count it a blessing.
> 
> FWIW, my female is ~65 lbs and my two males are ~75 lbs. They are all kept fit and trim (at the "ideal" level on the body composition chart).


What breed standard?


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## lynnedebie (Mar 24, 2014)

Our GSD (Maggie) is 4 years old, weighs barely 55 lbs. She is a beauty--extremely athletic and agile. She is a doggie blood donor with the UC Davis Veterinary Teaching Hospital; minimum weight requirement is 55 lbs to donate blood. I make sure to put the heavy harness on her for blood donation days--about every 6 weeks. She has always "made weight" for her appointments. People ask me if she is a 'miniature' German Shepherd.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

KileysCritters said:


> The breed standard is 65-90 lbs and doesn't differentiate between males and females, though it's generally accepted that females will fall towards the bottom of the range and males towards the top.


what breed standard is that? the SV standard does differentiate between males and females in both height and weight.
German Shepherds » SV Standard

Males: Withers height 60 cm to 65 cm; weight 30 kg to 40 kg

Females: Withers height 55 cm to 60 cm; weight 22 kg to 32 kg

The AKC only differentiates by height with no mention of weight. But since a female is smaller height, she is usually going to be a lower weight if her body is in the correct proportions. 

The desired height for males at the top of the highest point of the
shoulder blade is 24 to 26 inches; and for bitches, 22 to 24 inches


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

In my extensive search for a puppy, I came to hate the word robust.


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## Way Too Quiet (Nov 30, 2015)

I bet you're in the U.S. Everything is about size when it comes to animals here. It's ridiculous! I was told the same thing when Gunnar was alive and he was a very thick boned but lean and muscular 88lb WLGSD. The last person that stopped me to brag about how BIG her GSD was in contrast to mine, I encountered in the park while Gunnar was was giving her little girl all sorts of wet kisses. When I asked her why she didn't have her dog with at the park, her eyes got really big and she stated there was no way she could bring her GSD out to a park without it totally embarrassing her. I turned on my heel and said, I guess I'll keep my itty bitty GSD then, have a great day!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Way Too Quiet said:


> I bet you're in the U.S. Everything is about size when it comes to animals here. It's ridiculous! I was told the same thing when Gunnar was alive and he was a very thick boned but lean and muscular 88lb WLGSD. The last person that stopped me to brag about how BIG her GSD was in contrast to mine, I encountered in the park while Gunnar was was giving her little girl all sorts of wet kisses. When I asked her why she didn't have her dog with at the park, her eyes got really big and she stated there was no way she could bring her GSD out to a park without it totally embarrassing her. I turned on my heel and said, I guess I'll keep my itty bitty GSD then, have a great day!


You've had this happen too? People wanting to talk about their 130 lb GSDs?

People either think my girl is huge (and okay she kind of is), or they are all, "Sure she isn't going to grow anymore? The GSD I had growing up was at least this much taller than yours and weighed 130 lb..." and I'm always thinking, "I sure hope she's not getting any bigger..."


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