# Long bites



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Here I go again! This time....long bites. What makes a long bite, a long bite? Why I this is on my mind.... an acquaintance shared a video of a dog that supposedly shows impressive long bites. The dog comes super fast, launches WAY back and flies through the air onto the sleeve or wedge. The video shows this over and over. I'm not trying to diss the dog, I don't know anything about it and I've seen this sort of video many times, many dogs. What strikes me about it is that sure this dog is coming fast and launching like crazy, but when I watch the helper, he's just standing still holding a sleeve or wedge off to the side. Is that really a long bite? I mean, dock diving dogs do the same thing - they run really fast down a platform and launch like crazy at an object that is held out or popped in the air and they fly through the air. Is the speed and the launch what makes a long bite? I guess if I wanted to form some sort of opinion on this dog I would at least need to see some pressure from the helper, like moving towards the dog, making some noise (other than cheering the dog on), using that stick. Is pressure important for the long bite? How is this exercise judged in a trial?


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

It is good foundation for sport work, the crowd wants to see that, the handlers want to see that, and based on what Judges have rewarded in past fifteen years, THEY want to see that....isn't that complicated to me.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Yes, there should be pressure from the helper. The dog should come down field and power through the helper biting the sleeve with a full grip and then going into fight when the helper turns into the dog for the drive. They don't have to be speed demons like most Mali's or launch early flying through the air, but they should not slow down and float into the bite or slow down noticeably (a slight check before going for the bite would make sense so they target correctly). The strongest dogs I have seen were not always "flyers" and many didn't have extreme speed, but there was no question about their commitment or their power. 

I still like the old courage test where the helper ran away first (prey), dog was sent and then the helper turned and ran towards the dog coming back at them with a threat (defense).


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

This type of long bite you comment on Lies, in indicative of the stylization of today's sport. Its like the typical heel you see today where the dog may have its head elevated in a 45 degree angle the whole time its heeling or it may be focused squarely on the handlers face the whole time it is heeling. In discussing the "long bite" these dogs come with power, commitment, and usually full grip, but the style that has evolved is launching from a distance; and many clubs actually train their dogs to do the long bite this way, if the dog has the drive. Not passing judgement either way, just saying it is part of the evolution of the sport today.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't mind the speed and the launching and would not fault dogs for that commitment, I just found it curious the long bites were touted yet the "helper" was just standing there holding a bite wedge. OK I can get my cousin's white fluffy lapdog to run just as fast and launch just as far going for her tug toy. I guess it's sort of disappointing to see, because for me the backup style bites are not a complete picture of the dog? I would like to see the dog really fight and get a piece of that helper while the helper is really putting the heat on.

Then of course there are the long bites at the Sieger show. I used to think I would train my dogs as well as I could and as much to their potential as possible, and then go to the Sieger show with them because whenever we are critical of the performance test the show people say "OK then you enter your dog and do it". Fair enough. But now the long bite has changed so much I feel it doesn't even show off a dog that is actually halfway decent. There's no pressure, the drive is a joke, sometimes they don't even hit with the stick.

If anyone has any videos of good long bites or how "it used to be done" I'd like to see. I know video is no substitute but it's harder to find examples. We haven't been doing long bites in training b/c our indoor facility is too small. It's something I want to pay more attention to as we move outdoors.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Hall of Fame

There are tons of old videos here. Some are not of the best quality and it is usually harder to see what the helper is doing because the camera is on the dog. 
Neck von der Maineiche is a good one to watch. Takes the helper down, comes up holding his rear leg up but it makes no difference to the dog. He keeps on bringing the fight.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Okar v. Karthago is also something to see. You can hear the thump on the attack out of the back transport. These dogs just excellerate into the threat and the training was not all about play then. So, they knew what they were running at just a toy or their "sparing partner".


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

...and while you are at it, watch Xando v. Karthago. Tons of fight drive in that dog.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

> So, they knew what they were running at just a toy or their "sparing partner".


Meant to say they knew they were NOT running at just a toy......


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Thanks, Anne


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

You're welcome.
I just watched Cliff v. Huhengrab again. The way he does the courage test is somewhat typical of what I saw in dogs back then and there are still some now. He runs down the field, slows a bit while putting his ears up, then excelerates into the bite.
Some of the dogs now, especially some Mals, it almost seems you could side step and they would fly on by. I won't be trying to find out though...those days are over.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

do you know the noise Homer Simpson makes when he sees donuts -- well that was me -- those are some outstanding dogs. 
Carmen 
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

It was exciting to watch the dogs back then. Because of the dogs themselves, not the training. Hard to explain to some I guess. I enjoy watching those videos where some of the more recent dogs, I just click off a minute, or less, into the video.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Many of the more recent dogs I don't make it past the H&B.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

Liesje said:


> Here I go again! This time....long bites. What makes a long bite, a long bite? Why I this is on my mind.... an acquaintance shared a video of a dog that supposedly shows impressive long bites. The dog comes super fast, launches WAY back and flies through the air onto the sleeve or wedge. The video shows this over and over. I'm not trying to diss the dog, I don't know anything about it and I've seen this sort of video many times, many dogs. What strikes me about it is that sure this dog is coming fast and launching like crazy, but when I watch the helper, he's just standing still holding a sleeve or wedge off to the side. Is that really a long bite? I mean, dock diving dogs do the same thing - they run really fast down a platform and launch like crazy at an object that is held out or popped in the air and they fly through the air. Is the speed and the launch what makes a long bite? I guess if I wanted to form some sort of opinion on this dog I would at least need to see some pressure from the helper, like moving towards the dog, making some noise (other than cheering the dog on), using that stick. Is pressure important for the long bite? How is this exercise judged in a trial?


I think the video you were watching is a training video. What the video is showing is a young dog learning how to do a longbite using a systematic approach. They are breaking the longbite down into smaller parts just like many peope doing obedience.


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