# AKC Dog Sport !?!



## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

With the UKC/SDA marriage falling apart, this was the _*last*_ thing I expected to stumble onto today!

<span style="color: #3333FF">AKC dog sport</span> 

<span style="color: #3333FF">GSDCA affiliation</span> 

Not sure folks are going to want to send in their original scorebooks just to buy another from the AKC though!

<span style="color: #3366FF">AKC Scorebook order form</span>

Is this huge, or another yawn? Only time will tell!


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

Its quite contentious out there. AKC will NOT recognize a schH title, but then they created their own schutzhund with EXACTLY the same test and calls it the WDS. The GSDCA will host the 2013 WUSV, but totally dismissed the GSDCA-WDA. Go figure. The only thing that suffers: THE WORKING TRAITS OF THE GSD!! imo


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

What a mess!

The working traits of the GSD have long been abandoned in some lines and they probably aren't coming back anytime soon. 

GSDCA to host an event for a title it does not recognize?


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## umzilla (Nov 2, 2007)

AKC Working Dog Sport ("WDS" as opposed to UKC's Dog Sport, or "DS") has been around for a while - if you look at the event results, they list back to 2007. Honestly I'm not sure exactly when the first event was... but this isn't new. The rule book is nearly the same as a Schutzhund rule book. 

Since the WDA is tied in the the GSDCA, the GSDCA does recognize WDA titles... so to speak. For example, when Fritz got his Performance Award of Merit from the GSDCA, they did recognize his SchH3 as counting toward the award. This award is from the GSDCA, not the AKC.

The AKC, as a registry and pedigree producing organization, at this point does NOT recognize SchH titles. In fact, Fritz's PAM wouldn't show up on his pedigree either, as it is not an AKC award - it's from the breed club.

Christine


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

> Quote:Modeled after rules of protective or police-type sport programs (Schutzhund, IPO, etc.) used in many areas of the world, the AKC Working Dog program features tracking, obedience and protection at three levels. The AKC's program provides a well formulated evaluation of a dog's character, intelligence and desire to work. To obtain a WDS level title, a dog must earn passing scores at all three phases at a single trial - often on a single day.
> 
> For a limited time and in order to firmly establish the program in the shortest possible time, a "grandfathering" procedure allows for some titles earned in related sports mentioned above to be accepted within the WDS program. For instance, if your German Shepherd has earned a BH title, it will be eligible to enter a WDS trial at the Working Dog 1 level. Likewise, if your German Shepherd is already titled at the Schutzhund/IPO 1 level, it can compete at an approved WDS trial for the Working Dog 2 title.


Well, this seems to indicate GSDCA honors USA titles, and yes this is not new, seems it's been going on since May 2006
<span style="color: #3333FF">but this also makes it sound like they are AKC titles!</span> 

But it also says:


> Quote:The program will be run on a test basis for three years and then reviewed.


Guess that review ought to be happening _*now*_ if not already!

This was all new to me this morning when I stumbled on it...I always
figured the AKC thought very little about bitework and was surprised
to find anything to the contrary. 

And having never seen anything about it here, ever, thought it was
something new!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

AKC~American Kennel CA$H 
hmm... Another way to add to their coffers


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I posted about this when it came out but received very few, if any, replies.
The underlying politics appear to be so tangled a person could be pulled under and drown


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Alrighty then, don't ask, don't tell!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

So the breed club can independantly "recognize" titles that the AKC itself does not.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

This is what I wrote on our training club forum (and I may be off on some points, and this is also somewhat opinionated)... If I have posted something wrong, someone please correct it:

_GSDCA is the parent club and therefore the only one officially recognized by the FCI. (Although NOT under the FCI umbrella).
However, GSDCA has never in the past approved of bitework. So GSDCA-WDA was spawned (early 1980's) to provide for a venue through the breed-club, without actually being part of the breed club. GSDCA-WDA is now very much its own entity.

So GSDCA is mainly Am-lines. 
Many of the GSDCA-WDA clubs I have seen are more geared toward Euro-showlines (but that is just a generalization).

Then you have UScA. Not officially recognized by FCI or AKC as anything. So when, for example, a world team is formed, competitors are chosen from UScA and WDA. This is an agreement the two clubs have reached. But quite a bit of friction. UScA has already forbidden judges to be approved for them and WDA.
CRAZINESS!

So now, AKC and GSDCA has approved the WDS (not to be confused with WDA). Sensibly, if the parent breed club now does "schutzhund," there would be no need for the red-headed step-child, GSDCA-WDA. Right???! 

Except that WDA is its very own club now and does NOT want to become an arm of GSDCA. Valid point--how many GSDCA members understand protection work or have even attended a schutzhund trial? And how would Sieger style shows be worked into the mix?

You've seen how different the lines of shepherds are. And GSDCA does not even require hip-certs for their highest rankings (apparently that was a HUGE debate).

So GSDCA will be hosting the WUSV in 2013. 
WHAT?! Yep, that's right. Not GSDCA-WDA, but just plain old GSDCA hosting an international schutzhund event.

And right now there seems to be a difference within GSDCA.... should they continue to promote WDS (which is kind-of like reinventing the wheel), or should they recognize and support schutzhund titles.
_


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: gagsd_pup1
> 
> Except that WDA is its very own club now and does NOT want to become an arm of GSDCA. Valid point--how many GSDCA members understand protection work or have even attended a schutzhund trial? And how would Sieger style shows be worked into the mix?[/i]


Quite right! I am a member of the WDA but NOT the GSDCA. I show my dog in WDA club, regional, and Sieger shows but NOT in the AKC all-breed or speciality rings.




> Quote:_So GSDCA will be hosting the WUSV in 2013.
> WHAT?! Yep, that's right. Not GSDCA-WDA, but just plain old GSDCA hosting an international schutzhund event.
> _


The only consolation for me is that at least the WUSV will be in the USA so maybe I can go watch.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The WDA must stay connected to the GSDCA if they want to send a team to the WUSV. The WDA is NOT a member of the WUSV. So, while they may sort of be separate, it is still part of the GSDCA.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

If you want to be on the WUSV team for WDA, you must be a member of both WDA and GSDCA.

Also, WDA is not a member of AWDF and can not field a team to the FCI and FCI FH World Championships.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

So does anyone know what exactly, is going on with GSDCA and WDS v Schutzhund??

The reason I ask is our club has been considering going official, and was thinking about doing that through GSDCA. Reasoning that we have various members that participate in all types of events from rally-o to schutzhund. We would like to be able to hold these performance event trials.
But we have been waiting to see how everything pans out.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

I thought that the FCI recognized only one kennel club per country,
and in the US, it is the AKC.

What a lot of political malarky! 

Maybe they need a logo and a motto to help
AKC/WDS take off... like "Das right, we bite, get used to it!" 

Or a emblem/patch/logo with a profile of head/teeth and a 
"Grrrrr"


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

In the current issue of the GSDCA-WDA (Sept/Oct) President Danny Spreitler stated _the AKC Board has not made a decision regarding_ _the future of the Working Dog Sport. The Board has requested that the Performance Events Dept. discuss the endorsement idea with the major working breed Parent Clubs and the organizations which they recommend for endorsement. Once this input has been obtained, the Board will discuss the matter further_. 

This issue was released late, I believe waiting for an outcome on the subject.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

From <span style="color: #3333FF">USA site's AWDF statement page</span>,


> Quote:#2
> To have our working titles recorded and recognized around the world and to preserve our pedigree system. All of the member clubs either have developed or are in the process of developing a registry system that meets the international standard of acceptance.
> 
> #3
> To become affiliated with the FCI (Federation Cynologique Internationale). FCI is the world recognized organization that only acknowledges one registry per country. AWDF is an applicant member of FCI. At this time, we are participants as guest members at FCI meetings and invitational events.


So does this mean the FCI no longer recognizes the AKC, and so the AWDF/UScA is courting approval, or was my assumption only on KC per country is FCI (as # 3 above seems to re-iterate) affiliated simply incorrect?

Anyone know? I'm only trying to understand this convoluted score card of canine control. It's very confusing! (although somewhat amusing, the biggest irony being how completely the dogs don't care)

Anybody ever watched "Best in Show?"


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

My understanding, and this may not be clear, is that AKC has a reciprocal agreement with FCI but is NOT an FCI registry. I think AKC and the (British) Kennel Club are the two main examples of this.

UScA just got a list of judges SV "approved." Maybe this is another step they are taking on the road to being the FCI registry?? I have no idea. 
It really makes my head hurt

Probably someone like Grewe, Spreitler, Battaglia, or Landau would be able to clarify all of the points and reasoning behind what, to the general GSD community, appears a game of chess.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

<span style="color: #3366FF">Niether the US nor England are on this list</span> which collaborates what you've said...

I've been trying to recall why/where someone told me AKC registration meant something, and it may have been
when I was getting a UScA scorebook, in any case I think somewhere I got the idea that the AKC was the only FCI
affiliated registry and that for some reason it mattered. 

But yeah, this stuff can make your head hurt. 

*Speaks well for rescue and mixes!*


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I wish someone more "in the know" would speak up, but I think what you are referring to would be this.....

If you have an AKC registered dog, and moved to another country, that dog's registraion would be recognized by the new country's FCI registry.
If you had a dog in the states, and it was UKC registered but not AKC, and moved to another country, you would be out-of-luck.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

I don't think it can be known yet...
but I will speculate:
if the UScA, now also a registry, now has judges recognized by the SV, and yadeeda, the next thing they may be trying to accomplish is becoming the FCI registry for gsds, and I would guess that other breeds in the AWDF are doing the same thing.

With the AKC & UKC both in such disarray when it comes to Dog Sport,
perhaps that will be how it plays out.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: SambaSo the breed club can independently "recognize" titles that the AKC itself does not.


Yes. We recently had a dog that comes here to Lure Course get a versatility title from the parent club - and his lure coursing 'title' was part of it.

We give 'titles' for fun - the crazier the dog is about chasing the lure the higher the title. But the parent club for this breed was comfortable using our fun titles (which I told them when I sent them the requested email identifying the dog and his title).


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Hmmm...found this on the green board:



> Quote: GSDCA Board Meeting October 2009
> 
> On a motion made by Tish Walker, President elect of the GSDCA, and unanimously approved by the Board of Directors of the GSDCA - The German Shepherd Dog Club of America is supporting the recognition of Schutzhund by the AKC and endorsing the GSDCA-WDA as the organization administering schutzhund events for the German Shepherd Dog. The GSDCA and the GSDCA-WDA will work together to establish a procedure for this.
> 
> ...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

....


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Is it just me or does it seem all the fragmentation of organizational politics involved is really counter productive to the goals and ideals of each organization, which oddly seem basically equal?

Luckily the dogs don't care about our fragile egos, and just want to party, rain, snow or sunshine!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

THIS is interesting, I wonder what the eventual outcome will be...


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

So far the outcome is I have a headache, and still don't get it.
I'll have to come back to it later, but as I don't breed, don't intend to, don't necessarily care whether the UScA or WDA can kiss & makeup, or if the SV or AKC call the shots, when I don't much care for the show lines from either or who goes to world or makes the most money....
it might be awhile.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Found on another venue, not to beat a dead horse, but just an update:



> Quoteartial Highlights of November AKC Board Minutes:
> 
> Effective December 31, 2009 , at the end of a three year trial period,
> the Board voted to discontinue the Working Dog Sport. Moving forward the AKC will record Working Dog titles earned in events held by existing organizations, if requested by a breed Parent Club. The organization must be approved by the AKC Performance Events Department. Titles to be recorded require Board Approval. The recording of the title on an AKC pedigree will be done at the request of the dog's owner for a fee set by AKC. In addition, AKC clubs will be permitted to invite the other organization to hold it Working Dog event in conjunction with the AKC club's AKC event, as long as it is clear in the publicity that the former is being held under the auspices of another organization.


The political incorrectness of gripwork is not good for ANY breed, but I don't see the trend changing anytime soon. It will be up to the UScA/AWDF and/or the GSDCA/WDA to counter the baloney for our's. While it would be nice if that was always an AND, not an OR, apparently expecting the two to work together is also not politically correct. While the irony is the diviseness works against common goals, the reality is politics does what it does in all human endeavors, creates a lot of waste.


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## umzilla (Nov 2, 2007)

It seems that SchH titles will now be appearing on AKC pedigrees, via the WDA - some see this as great progress, others are not happy about it. Personally, I would love to have my dog's SchH titles on their AKC pedigrees.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting to
see SchH titles actually ever find their way onto AKC pedigrees
Talk about reluctant brides! (bold below is mine, words are their's)

From November AKC board minutes:
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/board_minutes/1109.pdf

> Working Dog Sport
> The Board reviewed a staff overview of the Working Dog Sport program established by a vote of
> the Board in May 2006. The Board approved the sport on a three year test basis, with a review
> planned at the end of the three years. Following a motion by Mrs. Strand, seconded by Mr.
> Goodman, it was VOTED (affirmative: Mrs. Strand, Mr. Goodman, Dr. Davies, Mr. Menaker, Mr.
> Kalter, Mr. Ashby, Dr. Haines, Mr. Arnold, Dr. Newman, Dr. Smith, Mr. Marden; opposed: Dr.
> Battaglia, Mrs. Schaefer) to adopt the staff recommendations as follows:
> (A) Given that the WDS trial period ends at the end of 2009 and given the
> difficulties experienced by the WDS program, the AKC is to discontinue the
> Working Dog Sport program as of December 31, 2009.
> (B) AKC clubs will be allowed to invite another organization to hold their
> schutzhund event in conjunction with the club’s AKC event.
> This can be accomplished under existing policy *so long as the schutzhund event
> is held on a different day or in a different location than AKC events and the event
> information is not included in any AKC event documents.*
> (C) AKC will record schutzhund titles in events as defined by the Parent Clubs.
> With this approval, the Performance Events Department will proceed to contact
> the Parent Clubs to finalize the titles and process by which the titles will be
> earned. *The titles must be approved by the Board.*
> Schutzhund titles will only be recorded for those breeds where the Parent Club
> has requested that AKC recognize the breed’s accomplishments in this activity.

SERIOUSLY DOUBT THIS WILL EVER HAPPEN! 
(Insert Debbie the Downer sound here)


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Doubt very seriously that it won't happen. When organizations put things in writing, (minus your thoughts), that indicate the process for something happening, its my experience that they do happen. People will have to pay for these titles to be put on pedigrees, people will have them put on for sure, AKC is about revenue and always has been. So you think they won't, based on their previous positions, and I think they will, based on it's revenue generating. Let's see what happens !! Are you also a person who say 5 years ago swore they would never allow a gripping sport to be sanctioned???? Fess up! Look I'm not an AKC advocate, I just deal with reality and probability and not feelings!!!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I too imagine that the AKC will allow titles via the WDA to appear on pedigrees. We will see if they get cold feet, but I am betting they will go ahead with this.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

All about the dollar, and the people who are the most disgusted with AKC's position will be some of the first to pay for it on their pedigree. The GSDCA people won't pay because their dogs don't have the degrees in the first place(in many cases). So guess who will be paying....the same people who don't believe!! And AKC does'nt care where the money comes from as long as it comes. Brings in new market of people to pay for accessories to pedigree...sure they will do it!! Wake up folks!!


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Cliff,

I agree with your premise, so when we consider the AKC $ relationship to SchH and pedigrees, why didn't the UKC sustain their relationship with SDA under the same pretence? Was it simply a funtion of volume/organizational maturity on the part of SDA, and maybe impatience on the part of UKC?


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

5 years ago I had just buried my first pure bred gsd @ 4.5 yrs, after decades of hosting mixes and rescues...I didn't know anything about Schutzhund, and had only caught 3 dogs in a PPD class one time. I didn't know didley about the AKC, other than I thought the flick "Best in Show" was hilarious, and always enjoyed watching the Dog Shows
on Animal Planet.

My doubt is just from my limited experience in the past 2.5 years and dismay at the divisiveness between the lines and politics of the whole
deal. AKC-GSDCA/WDA vs USA/AWDF & SV vs RSV2000.

Then you got your UKC/SDA. I hope it wasn't the political incorrectness of bitework that caused the AKC/WDS & UKC/SDA to fail, but I suspect in today's be very afraid hysteria that has become the norm, it may well be the kennel clubs don't want to be seen as supporting any such scary thing. While I agree it's the land of the fee, home of the rave, only time will tell if they are just giving more lip service to the breed clubs or looking for more cash flow. I doubt
there's enough cash flow there to warrant success. It already costs
plenty to do dog sport, more fees won't help.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Then if your doubt is due to your dismay as you said, then that falls under "feelings" as a reason. And though I don't deny anybody right to feelings(smile), I have found them to be a poor basis for projecting outcomes. JMO 
Wayne, I think the primary reason for the UKC discontinuance of SDA was administrative, no more no less. I think that UKC loves the concept but doesn't want to deal with the founder. JMO ...Nonetheless, I think that SDA is one of the most practical dogsports today. Thus attracting many different people and enabling people to develop their dogs in a forum they probably wouldn't have entered before. Oh Well!!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

So what is going on with the SDA, if they aren't with UKC anymore?


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I don't see the break up with UKC hurting SDA at all. I know me and the pooches are having a lot of fun with it.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Our club is also continuing to train for it. All of PD1 dogs are training for PD2 or P2. Our new crop of young dogs are getting ready to be titled in the spring....Cliff


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Oh that's good to know... I got Bianca UKC reg because I wanted to do the SDA stuff but I guess now I don't need it for that?


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## umzilla (Nov 2, 2007)

There's a lot to do in UKC - obedience, rally, agility, conformation, dock jumping - there's a LONG list of events and activities and I think you will enjoy UKC.









Christine


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: ChicagocanineOh that's good to know... I got Bianca UKC reg because I wanted to do the SDA stuff but I guess now I don't need it for that?


Correct! 

And you can still do the UKC stuff if you want!


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Anybody know if the UKC is going to do anything with bitework in it ever again?
It's March, all the old SDA links have been dead a long while now.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

SDA is still alive!!


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