# Scent Drive



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

If you are helping your dog build his/her scent drive, how to you manage it when the dog's drive takes over and obediance goes out the window?

How can you correct the dog without seeming to correct the scent drive?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Scent Drive? Do you mean "hunt drive" ?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

If I'm trying to build the drive to follow a scent trail by using food etc. and make it always fun, exciting and rewarding a great game loved by all. But I drive the 'game' by giving the command to find/follow the trail. Make sense?

So when we are out just hiking and the dog finds a scent and becomes engaged on the scent with out the command given - how would I correct the engagement with out confusing the dog?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Well it is a matter of simple extinction there and correction of the dog is on a scent trail and chooses wrong. 

The other scents are not allowed to "pay" EVER. So the trailing dog should not ever be allowed to have fun trailing game etc. "leave it" is appropriate. I do that all the time when my HRD dogs find somehting "interesting" that is not human HR.

If you are following a scent trail then it is good to associate a scent article for the dog to know the game is on and he is looking for a particular scent - though dogs can, under command follow the first located scent and follow its odor...but you would usually introduct that later (unliked tracking where you don't care so much about the human element and introduce the ground disturbance)

Well trailing and tracking are rife with arguments so it could be an interesting discussion.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks Nancy - that makes sense. Would the use of a correctional device be utilized to tell the dog it's time to 'play the game', versus we are doing something else as well as your suggestion?

Like if we are going to work a track, then I'd have my dog in a flat collar and/or harness. But if we are just hiking (etc.) then I might have him in a halti or choke chain. 

Not really getting hung up on the equipment - but on using something different when the dog is asked to follow a trail and when the dog is not.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

They should know when to work regardless. Generally we use the vest and the bell and once that is on, she knows exactly that it is time to work. However, I can also send her out without all that clunk, through a ritual. 

The ritual is, imho, more important than the equipment. Equipment can break or get lost, the ritual you can do without any of that. 

I put her into a sit, next to me and say "watch me", release the leash, Hand forward and than "SEARCH!"


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> They should know when to work regardless. Generally we use the vest and the bell and once that is on, she knows exactly that it is time to work. However, I can also send her out without all that clunk, through a ritual.
> 
> The ritual is, imho, more important than the equipment. Equipment can break or get lost, the ritual you can do without any of that.
> 
> I put her into a sit, next to me and say "watch me", release the leash, Hand forward and than "SEARCH!"


When first training, did you keep a 'drag line' on her to correct?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I actually had one on her but not really to correct but to have control over the situation. It came off after the third session and it was much better without a drag line. 

We started out with Swissies on a short distance, that was before I started with the ritual. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PsOmr20ww9U

From that day on, she never had a lead on her again. If she does get distracted I say "Back to work" which is pretty much the same as "leave it".


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

If you are doing trailing, generally you keep a line on the dog because the line is a form of communication with the dog ......... typically a trailing dog would use a harness so it can pull without perceived correction 

If you are doing area search....ie. following airborne scent as opposed to a scent trail then you don't use a line. 

What, exactly, is it you are doing here? Are you trailing as in finding a lost person by following their trail using a scent article (that was my assumption based on the verbiage), 

Air scenting which may or may not be scent specific (usually not though many do) to find a person based on airborne scent....Air scenting in this context is NOT the same one used by tracking people for a dog tracking with its head off the track) but rather airborne scent from a point source.

or tracking to follow the footfall path of a person where you want the dog to stay close to where they walked (A trailing dog may wind up quite some distance from the footfall path under certain circumstances and be correct)


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

This is a good trailing example with Karina Kalks from the Mantrailing Academy in Austria. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CDTSjED7aWA#!

It would be good to know what exactly you are talking about and what the scenario is. There are plenty on here that could probably help you.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Classic article. If you are trailing, Kevin Kocher is one of the gurus of the trailing world.

http://www.uspcak9.com/training/trailingNegative.pdf

Jeff Schettler is one of the new "hot" ones folks are following. I have heard some mixed things ...not sure.

I work a cadaver dog, which is bascially like air scent. (scent emanating from a point source, not a trail to follow)........so I would not claim to be expert on trailing...just stuff you pick up in watching other folks train their trailing dogs. Lets be sure of what it is you are actually trying to do though.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> What, exactly, is it you are doing here? Are you trailing as in finding a lost person by following their trail using a scent article (that was my assumption based on the verbiage),


I started out working my Lacy pup with blood trailing. Finding wounded game. But to give Hondo something new to do I decided I'd include him in training as well. 

Making tracking fun, I'll mix it up. Lay actual blood trails sometimes, or actually have someone get 'lost' and have them found. 

Keep in mind, Hondo will never be SAR material - he lacks the drive- but he loves to please and he likes having a job. I don't want to confuse him. 

I do want the Lacy to work, so I want to be careful with him. 

It is very interesting watching both of them learn. Although Hondo likes the reward at the end, he does it more for me. The Lacy is all about food and I'm just icing on the cake.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ok....Kocher should be good stuff.......yes for a SAR dog you would not want a dog who has been trained to follow an animal blood trail to look for humans..Keep it simple to the dog; work is one thing... As a game you are just having fun, though. Just don't show up a search and "offer" your services and you will be fine.

I think you will find it a little different than blood trailing though because the blood is on the ground constantly generating odor. The human scent may be off in the bushes or washing down a ravine etc. and off the footfall path. ....... Syrotouk, Scent and the Scenting Dog.....still a valuable little reference to have and I would add Kocher's paperback to your library.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Great information, I'll have to add it to my 'tool box'! 

No worries about showing up and offering my services at a 'real' SAR search. Unless the person is giggling behind a tree, or snickering up in a hay loft, we'd be no help at all. 

Just a side note, a finished seasoned game tracking dog will follow a trail of a wounded animal even if there isn't a drop of blood on the trail as it progresses. The problem falls on the handler who second guesses his dog because he doesn't see the track. 

Working with two totally different dogs, two totally different personalities it really is awesome to be a part of. Although I say it's for 'fun' as in we'd never do a true SAR - I think the basic training would be the same.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think so. A lot of hunters make great SAR folks
I know precious little about blood trailing.


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