# DM or hip dysplasia?



## mlotek511 (May 23, 2016)

Hello,

My GSD is 7 years old and has recently been diagnosed with severe hip displasia (by X ray). We have scheduled a consultation with an orthopedic surgeon to schedule a total hip replacement. In the meantime, I have sent in a DNA DM test to DDC to help rule out degenerative myelopathy.

My question is, anyone that has seen DM or evere HD - do the symptoms looks more like DM, HD, or both to you? Thank you in advance for your help.

Best,
Tom

Unfortunately I can't post links yet... the youtube address is vU7rqpnNPu0 
when you paste this in it comes right up. Thanks for the help guys.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well it takes a necropsy to determine DM. It's a process of elimination if it's nothing else, .. it must be DM. If the X-rays show Hip dysplasia, then most likely that is what it is.


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## mlotek511 (May 23, 2016)

*Xray*

Here is an xray that shows the one hip being really bad... I hope its displaysia and not DM as well - and that the total hip replacement will fix it :/


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Have you considered an FHO as opposed to a total replacement?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Really bad and really good hips are easy to recognize.....these will not pass, the one side is pretty obviously bad - the position is bad, but it would not change the shape of the femoral heads and sockets.



DM is progressive, and many people think that when their older dogs start to lose mobility it must be dysplasia, as DM is not as widely discussed.....

As stated, DM can only be 100% verified by autopsy....but really, teh signs are fairly obvious, and although a few other situations can cause similar symptoms - especially in dogs who have been worked in IPO and who may have been jammed or otherwise damaged - DM is progressive and does not show up on x-rays like this....this is definitely hips...

I would recommend a consult with a good othopedic surgeon, and conservative maintenance - keeping the dog lean, supplements and if your vet suggests adequan therapy, go for it as well...


Lee


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

HD tends to be something quite painful. I feel like if this was just HD, the pain of it would be more obvious. 
Where as DM has been know as a pain free condition in general. Tend to get scuff marks on their feet and their nails drag to the point of bleeding on occasions because they drag their feet around. Swaying hips. Hard time getting up, etc. The toe touching and not correcting when the toe is down, whereas a dog without DM would quickly fix it. 
To me it looks more like DM than HD.. But i hope i am wrong, because your right HD there are things like THR and FHO. And im not a vet, even less a specialist in the matter, so i hope that the people who know what they are talking about get the results to you ASAP. 

They do make wheelchairs for dogs with DM, gives them more freedom to run around and be mobile and have more life. So its not a death sentence in my mind, it just sucks for everyone, but i personally believe a dog can still be extremely happy and have great quality of life with DM.


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## mlotek511 (May 23, 2016)

Thanks guys - we are going to the orthopedic specialist tommorrow for a consult and I should get the DM dna test results this friday. 

Looks like most of the votes are for HD - another sign I forgot to mention is the whelp he let out when he jumped down from a 2 ft step - seemed like he was in pain when his hind legs came down.

I will post findings up when I find out - he is only 7 years old and his parents had good and excellent hips (but he was supposed to be a service dog, instead they sold him as a discount to me as pet). Given his relatively young age I think we will try THR if the surgeon says it'd HD.

Thanks


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## mlotek511 (May 23, 2016)

BTW- results just came in for DNA DM test... he tested a carrier A/G but is supposedly not at risk (A/A).


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

mlotek511 said:


> BTW- results just came in for DNA DM test... he tested a carrier A/G but is supposedly not at risk (A/A).


Not at risk is the important point ... 70% of Boxers carry the DM gene.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Misinformation abounds.

HD is painful. To what extant that shows depends on the dog. I have seen dogs with terrible hips never take a wrong step and others with mild HD screaming in agony at every move.

DM is completely painless, it destroys nerves and it IS a death sentence. It steals your dog one piece at a time and is relentless. It can be slowed but never stopped and the eventual outcome is more often determined by the owners then the disease. It becomes a question of what you can watch, and how much you can bear.


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## mlotek511 (May 23, 2016)

Quick update... looks like it is Neurological and they are suspecting degenerative disk disease due to the quick onset. Going for MRI today.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

hope you get some answers. If it is degenerative disk I believe there are some treatments available.

I will keep you in my thoughts.


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## mlotek511 (May 23, 2016)

Thank you Sabi - the news is good. The MRI showed a burst disk applying pressure to the spinal cord around his front shoulder muscles. He just got back from surgery with a very good (80%) prognosis for returning most of his previous rear leg functions. Some things I learned that I wanted to share:

1) A burst disc can really resemble DM to an untrained eye, but the neurologist immediately said that the onset was too quick, and that his reflexes were too good to be DM. She also said the DM test is about 90% effective (wow) in determining if a dog is at risk for DM and recommends the test (this surprised me as I know alot of people are very skeptical of this test). She said of course there are errors associated with testing (even more scrutinized human testing is not 100% effective) but the correlation between double AA/AA genes and DM is strong. For the record my GSD tested as a carrier.

2) Get a second opinion if you can, I was told hip dysplasia initially but went to two other vets (one was a Neurologist specialist that saw the real issue right away).

3) Don't jump to the worst conclusion right away, let the professionals do their job in diagnosing the problem.

I'll re-post his progress in the coming weeks.

Cheers


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

So happy for you!


There are many things that can resemble DM and as it is currently the soup de jour it seems to be the go to diagnosis. In my experience and communications with other DM owners, the onset is so slow you don't even notice until it's fairly advanced and the initial symptoms are most often dismissed as 'old dog woes' until things become blatant. I mean come on, I sure don't move like I did in my 20's!
Yes the test has had errors but we need to always remember that humans are doing the testing. We aren't perfect and sometimes mistakes get made.
A carrier should never become symptomatic. I'm sure some here will argue, but the fact is in order to actually suffer from the disease two copies of the gene are needed, and carriers only have one.


I wish your boy a speedy recovery and I wish you both much happiness. Please do update us.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> So happy for you!
> 
> 
> There are many things that can resemble DM and as it is currently the soup de jour it seems to be the go to diagnosis. In my experience and communications with other DM owners, the onset is so slow you don't even notice until it's fairly advanced and the initial symptoms are most often dismissed as 'old dog woes' until things become blatant. I mean come on, I sure don't move like I did in my 20's!
> ...


Clicking dragging toe nails 
in the left rear leg... 

Glad the OP found non DM related systems, good luck going forward.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Clicking dragging toe nails
> in the left rear leg...
> 
> Glad the OP found non DM related systems, good luck going forward.



I never understood why it always starts with one rear leg. And why the huge percentage left? Almost all the owners I have spoken to noticed the left leg. Boxer and GSD.


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## pearl10 (Aug 28, 2017)

WONDERFUL NEWS for you mlotek511!!!!! 

I have just become a member as my precious girlie is ALSO 7 years tomorrow actually and
in the last months has been showing signs of her left hip side limping and less muscle tone in her back end.

I have just sought out a holistic vet for the first time as I'd like to do what I can naturally first. They will be doing
an x-ray this week to determine what the issue is. He thinks it's arthritis but we'll see.


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