# Got Court Monday



## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

A while back in June I was having issues with a neighbours little dog. It caused some damage to my dog a couple times. Mine was leashed theirs wasnt and under the law they have to be. So I finally called the spca and they got spoken to. He thinks because he works for the fire department these laws do not apply to him 

But anyway long story short, they filed a report with the spca claiming my dog wasnt leashed as I walked by their place one day and I got a ticket. Well, the day and time they swore on a witness statement my dog wasnt leashed, I was out at the movies with my sister and have the stubs and transaction to prove it as well as video from the theatre. We were gone most of the evening and the time they claimed he wasnt leashed he was in his crate. 

So I am going to fight that on Monday, this will be interesting, not sure how I am going to bust their bubble tho.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Wow - What crappy people. Real glad you have proof of your dogs' innocence. I can't wait to hear how it goes Monday. Don't forget to post!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Please do update us on this.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Wow - What crappy people. Real glad you have proof of your dogs' innocence. I can't wait to hear how it goes Monday. Don't forget to post!


Yeah I will reply here when I get back with what happened for you.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

You've got court and I've got jury duty on Tuesday. Good luck to both of us.


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

Lucy Dog said:


> You've got court and I've got jury duty on Tuesday. Good luck to both of us.


Ack! Jury duty! I had jury duty last Feb, what a nightmare! I was there from 8am till 5pm because i was selected as a juror. The case didnt actually start till like 1:30, all the hours prior i sat in a room and almost fell asleep. Then I got stuck on the jury with the most moronic people i have ever met in my life, it was scarey that they hold the fate of people in their hands!!


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Kelly... I completely agree. It blows my mind that our judicial system puts people's lives on the line with people who know absolutely nothing about the law. I guess it's the only way for a "fair trial", but when you think about it, it's a horrible way of deciding someone's fate.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Thought I would update those who were truly interested. 

The judge threw it out, gave her a little speech on proper ownership. Told her that if her dog was controlled we wouldnt even be here right now because she wouldnt need to feel the need for revenge. 

They also ordered her to pay for any damages her dog has done to mine (just found that one out in the middle of the week). So that money will help


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

:thumbup: That's good news!


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I don't understand how you can get a ticket from animal control on someone's word. AC did not see you walk your dog without a leash. They will speak to you but they cannot charge you because they did not see you.

Glad it was thrown out.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

glad the judge was smart! cant stand stupid neighbors.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Justice prevails!


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## princessbelladonna2k11 (Aug 21, 2011)

This reminds me of an incident that happened to us last summer... 

My husband was a whitewater river guide, staying at the river guide house, with permission to have his dog there. He was only gone an hour or so taking the huge mound of garbage the other guys had left out in the yard from the 3 - 4 weeks of non stop parties. 

While he was gone, this other person had left his 12 week old Jack Russell puppy inside the house, without permission. Our dog, who is now 13 years of age, has a low tolerance for puppies that won't leave her alone, and she enjoys her space, especially when she is sleeping. The owner of the JR knew about her, and we always had to remind him to keep his puppy away from Nugget while she was sleeping.

So, with the puppy unattended, he ran outside to, supposedly, have an argument with his girlfriend at the time. By the time he came back in, which was for "only a couple of minutes," his puppy was attacked. 

Needless to say, they sued my husband, even though they made a written agreement on payments to cover the vet bill and called animal control, and started a huge controversy, so my husband lost his job.

The puppy is doing great to this day! And, there are certain people that need to take a little bit more responsibility when it comes to their own animals.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Caledon said:


> I don't understand how you can get a ticket from animal control on someone's word. AC did not see you walk your dog without a leash. They will speak to you but they cannot charge you because they did not see you.
> 
> Glad it was thrown out.


Sadly this is perfectly normal and legal. A cop can write you a traffic ticket even if he did not witness you commit a traffic infraction - just needs "someone else's word for it."

Now, this rarely happens (at least where I live) but it's still quite legal. The officer just has to demonstrate that he acted on good faith and had cause to believe the informant. He doesn't actually have to witness what happened.

This is the police, of course, but I presume the same goes with AC.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Glad you got a positive outcome!


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

I am not sure why they can do this. 

So lets say I see you walking your dog off leash. I call AC and write a witness statement. They can issue you a ticket based on that. Before you werent able to...now they can which is dumb because people lie and get people tickets. I would of had to pay this one had I not of had evidence he was in fact on leash (or in my case in his crate)


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Draugr said:


> Sadly this is perfectly normal and legal. A cop can write you a traffic ticket even if he did not witness you commit a traffic infraction - just needs "someone else's word for it."
> 
> Now, this rarely happens (at least where I live) but it's still quite legal. The officer just has to demonstrate that he acted on good faith and had cause to believe the informant. He doesn't actually have to witness what happened.
> 
> This is the police, of course, but I presume the same goes with AC.


Sure as heck not here, I had a guy slam his truck into my car, the car behind me was an off duty cop. They couldn't write the guy a ticket because the cop that showed up, didn't witness it. The cop/witness' story didn't account for anything. I could only file a complaint of road rage with the police.... The off duty cop even had to chase the guy down and bring him back, it was a hit and run, and the guy got off scott free so to speak....


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

WarrantsWifey said:


> Sure as heck not here, I had a guy slam his truck into my car, the car behind me was an off duty cop. They couldn't write the guy a ticket because the cop that showed up, didn't witness it. The cop/witness' story didn't account for anything. I could only file a complaint of road rage with the police.... The off duty cop even had to chase the guy down and bring him back, it was a hit and run, and the guy got off scott free so to speak....


Hmm...maybe state laws vary on this. It's not common practice to do it regardless but it CAN be done here.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Here, I would have to give the dog warden pictures of the dog in my yard. Just my saying the neighbor lets the dog run loose, and it charges every time I try to put the dogs in the car is not enough for them to do anything.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Don't get me started. Even when AC sees something here they won't do anything


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> A while back in June I was having issues with a neighbours little dog. It caused some damage to my dog a couple times. Mine was leashed theirs wasnt and under the law they have to be. So I finally called the spca and they got spoken to. He thinks because he works for the fire department these laws do not apply to him


hmmm....like this that really need the courts attention, along with Brandi's situation...I wonder about the justice(Courages name thrown in for more head scratching...)
This is a dog from my first link. More than worth a court case, but I bet it won't be seen for over a year. And I doubt justice will be served.


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## valreegrl (Nov 11, 2009)

Caledon said:


> I don't understand how you can get a ticket from animal control on someone's word. AC did not see you walk your dog without a leash. They will speak to you but they cannot charge you because they did not see you.
> 
> Glad it was thrown out.


Sadly, I found out the hard way....or easy way when I was done with the ACO! 

My neighbor has a beef with us and has called the police and AC many times. The first, the ACO came to my home and asked me a few questions. I stepped outside the house, but he wouldn't give me time to crate my dogs so the two Shepherds were in the window barking. I gave him my vet records and licenses, stated township law that I was not breaking any rules and he left. 
Second time, the ACO called my house. He began by stating that they were in the process of deeming my male Shepherd a dangerous animal. I laughed, and again stated township law and the fact that he does not have any bite record and that he can come back when he does. Of course that made him mad, so he began demanding that the corner of my fence has a 'weak spot' and that I WILL fix it immediately. I explained that this 'weak spot' was ridiculous and had he seen it. He wouldn't answer. I asked again, had he been on my property uninvited and witnessed the fence issue himself. Again, nothing. I then asked if township law stated I needed a fence to own a dog and had my dogs even been loose. Again, no answer. Finally, I told the ACO that I was NOT fixing the fence as there was NOT a 'weak spot' and asked him to politely tell my neighbors that same thing. 
Third time, the ACO officer came to my house with a police officer (same day as above). I happened to be at the police station filing a report against the ACO for abuse of power in terms of the fence demand as well as the dangerous dog issue. I was told to go home and file the report there. Upon arrival, only the police officer was there along with a CITATION for the fence! I showed the office and he looked up the law that was written on the citation and it was an old leash law! I made my report, the officer voided the citation and the ACO KEPT HIS JOB!

A week later, a woman was walking her dog (unleashed) along another neighbors property (corner property). The unleashed dog stuck it's head under the fence and began to fight with the property owners dog. The owner, already outside, grabbed his dog just as the woman's dog was making it's way completely under the fence. Woman called ACO and the property owner received a ticket for "the leash law"! 
They are currently awaiting their court date.

The point is, ACO's are not infallible. And I have seen, on many occasions, the incompetence that comes along with ignorance. It's sad


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

A while back I had Gunner, he was at the park on a lunge line because he wasnt off leash trained yet. Some family was terrified of him and called AC telling them my dog wasnt leashed. At this time AC HAD to witness it in order to write a ticket. So...they showed up told me that I wasnt allowed to have a "dangerous dog" on a lunge line and I asked where in the by law does it state that and also how is my 5 month old puppy a dangerous dog? I told her to do her job and went home.

15 minutes after I got home she was back. Said her supervisor (who wasnt even in the country at the time) told her to issue me the ticket because I was being an arse. So they issued me a ticket for having my dog off leash when he wasnt. 

I wouldnt of won in court as AC claimed THEY say him off leash. That was a huge lie. So I just paid the ticket. 

When Link was a few months old, My X friend wanted revenge and called AC on me telling then that I dragged my dog on concrete and his paws were all cut. Normally, I would never allow AC anywhere near my dogs unless they had a warrent. But I was nice and showed him Links paws. After seeing they werent hurt they demanded I take him to a vet. 

So I did and $100 later and a note from my vet saying he was healthy, I demanded the City pay for it. They did, after they heard my lawyer was getting involved.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm slightly confused how you got a ticket and them having their dog off leash ans the judge lecturing them about revenge even came up?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I doubt AC would ever do anything here on a phone call. They would really have to find something wrong in order to give you a ticket or turn something into a huge issue. Anytime its one person's word against another person's there probably has to be some hard evidence of whatever the accusation is. And in the case of actually getting as far as sitting infront of a judge? There is no way they would waste their time with that.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> When Link was a few months old, My X friend wanted revenge and called AC on me telling then that I dragged my dog on concrete and his paws were all cut. Normally, I would never allow AC anywhere near my dogs unless they had a warrent. But I was nice and showed him Links paws. After seeing they werent hurt they demanded I take him to a vet.
> 
> So I did and $100 later and a note from my vet saying he was healthy, I demanded the City pay for it. They did, after they heard my lawyer was getting involved.


Wow, your AC must not have anything better to do...and I don't believe the city would pay for a vet bill just because you threaten them with a lawyer. I don't think this post is for real


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Thats fine you are entitled to believe what you want. 

For those of you who will not believe AC will ticket you on someones word as long as they sign a witness statement why not email the humane society and ask for yourself? 

As for getting out of the ticket for those who cannot seem to read the OP, this neighbour called in and said my dog was off leash with me at said time and date. Well at said time and date I was at a movie theatre and had tickets and receipts to prove it. My dog was sound in his crate at home. So said neighbour LIED to the AC to get me a ticket because all you have to do is a sign a witness statement saying you are willing to go to court if the person who is receiving a ticket chooses to fight it. 

Email or Call them (if your close enough) to ask them for yourself how you go about getting someone a ticket for having their dog off leash

ETA- Niagara Falls Humane Society is who you should contact as they are contracted out by the city and handle the ticket writing


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> Wow, your AC must not have anything better to do...and I don't believe the city would pay for a vet bill just because you threaten them with a lawyer. I don't think this post is for real


No my lawyer wrote them a letter. Under the law they have to have probable cause in order to make me take my dog to the vet. He saw his paw pads and seen they were fine. But decided to be a *_inappropriate word*_ and make me take him anyway.

Also, this person was out on revenge because I called AC on her because her dog caused damage to mine when it was off leash (law says they must be leashed). This is why she lied to AC to get me a ticket


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## dvsdevelopment (Jul 17, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> I'm slightly confused how you got a ticket and them having their dog off leash ans the judge lecturing them about revenge even came up?


I'm confused as well. And the judge made them pay something? This was not a civil case and unless they were ticketed or arrested what authority would the judge have to make them pay you anything? Judges can't just walk down the street ordering things done and people paid.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

It was made civil when I brought them to court to argue my false ticket. On top of that I brought in vet bills that HER dog caused to prove this wasnt the first incident.


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## dvsdevelopment (Jul 17, 2011)

So either you sued them or you were fighting the ticket, which one?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

He's from Ontario, the Canadian court system is much more linient than the American one. A lot of things that they do would never fly in one of our courtrooms, for one, any case involving dogs and vet bills.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

I am a SHE for one thing. 

It sucks that if another dog mauled your dog and costed you $800 in vet bills that you wouldnt be able to get it back under your justice system. Here, a long as the owner of the dog that got injured was following the laws...the law will rest in their favor


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## dvsdevelopment (Jul 17, 2011)

Thanks, that would make a little more sense. I was sitting here wondering how in the world a judge was issuing a judgement against someone other than the accused in a "criminal" case. Lol. Thanks again.


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## dvsdevelopment (Jul 17, 2011)

malinois_16 said:


> I am a SHE for one thing.
> 
> It sucks that if another dog mauled your dog and costed you $800 in vet bills that you wouldnt be able to get it back under your justice system. Here, a long as the owner of the dog that got injured was following the laws...the law will rest in their favor


Where is that information coming from? In what state would this be true?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

dvsdevelopment said:


> Where is that information coming from? In what *state* would this be true?


Province! It's Canada.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

martemchik said:


> He's from Ontario, the Canadian court system is much more linient than the American one. A lot of things that they do would never fly in one of our courtrooms, for one, any case involving dogs and vet bills.


Right here DVS, she said that in the US any case involving dogs and vet bills wouldnt fly. Meaning, wouldnt get heard. So any owner whos dog was mauled and inquired vet bills would never get them back. Here they would. There was no criminal case here. Judges hear anything from civil, criminal to simple disputes...


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

malinois_16 said:


> Right here DVS, she said that in the US any case involving dogs and vet bills wouldnt fly. Meaning, wouldnt get heard. So any owner whos dog was mauled and inquired vet bills would never get them back. Here they would. There was no criminal case here. Judges hear anything from civil, criminal to simple disputes...


Glad you got that information based on ASUMPTION, if you don't practice law in the U.S. You shouldn't speak about law FACTS in the U.S......


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

martemchik said:


> He's from Ontario, the Canadian court system is much more linient than the American one. A lot of things that they do would never fly in one of our courtrooms, for one, any case involving dogs and vet bills.


Maybe some of us are confused about this statement. I think, at least by watching old Judge Wopner, or Judge Judy, if you have vet bills, and you were following the law, even in the US, you MIGHT be able to get your vet bills paid. 

What probably would not happen here is counter-suing in the same court that a ticket was issued. I think that Malinois was going to fight the ticket, and with that then sue the complaintant for some type of harrassment, and while she was at it, medical bills from the previous incident. It sounds pretty complicated.

But, if AC gave you a ticket on the information of a vindictive neighbor, and you could prove you were elsewhere at the time, I should think you could countersue for having to take time and money to go to court, and any number of other related issues. 

I think you can tell that I am woefully unversed in legal processes. My philosophies are generally that if it is likely to cost way more to litigate than you are likely to recover, just drop it; and keep on excellent terms with your neighbors even if you have to put up with smoke from their camp fire, or leaves from their lawn, or a little snappy dog peeing on your flowers, because neighbors can put you in a world of hurt without even breaking any laws.


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## dvsdevelopment (Jul 17, 2011)

In the United States we have criminal law (i.e. tickets, arrests) and civil law. 

If my dog attacked another dog and I was at fault then I might receive a ticket. I would then head on down to the courthouse where a judge or jury would determine my guilt or innocence. A fine, restitution, jail time, probation, etc... might be assessed.

If restitution is not ordered or does not cover what the victim needed he or she can them file a civil suit and seek a monetary award. 

The two systems operate seperately and have different processes and varying degrees of necessary proof and ecidence.

I am not a lawyer and by no means an expert but this is just a very basic overview of how something like this may happen here in the US.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I know even less about Canada law. Maybe there is something, to keep all the facts of a situation in one court, the ability to hear/file separate issues revolving around a single incident. I dunno.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

This still makes no sense. You were going to court on a ticket you got.....which had nothing to do with their dog attacking yours. Yet all you had to do was no report them and bring vet bills?


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

No her dog did attack mine and I brought those papers for the judge to see to show she was out for revenge. He was the one who told her to pay the vet bills not me, I wasnt even asking for money. I was just asking to get out of the ticket because she lied about it. I cant make you understand it. I have the paperwork in front of me and thats all that matters.


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## hobbsie711 (Jul 25, 2011)

Policies for police vary from agency to agency. Where I work I can write you a ticket if I didn't witness something if I have a witness. Keep in mind me writing the ticket or summons does not make you guilty it simply means there is enough evidence (witness statement) to send it to court and let the court system figure it out. We commonly do this in situations where everyone's story is conflicting. We write it all up give everyone a summons and let the court system sort it out. It sucks but people lie. I like to think I have a pretty good nose for BS.


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## hobbsie711 (Jul 25, 2011)

.....And Canada's laws are going to differ from ours.


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

valreegrl said:


> Sadly, I found out the hard way....or easy way when I was done with the ACO!
> 
> My neighbor has a beef with us and has called the police and AC many times. The first, the ACO came to my home and asked me a few questions. I stepped outside the house, but he wouldn't give me time to crate my dogs so the two Shepherds were in the window barking. I gave him my vet records and licenses, stated township law that I was not breaking any rules and he left.
> Second time, the ACO called my house. He began by stating that they were in the process of deeming my male Shepherd a dangerous animal. I laughed, and again stated township law and the fact that he does not have any bite record and that he can come back when he does. Of course that made him mad, so he began demanding that the corner of my fence has a 'weak spot' and that I WILL fix it immediately. I explained that this 'weak spot' was ridiculous and had he seen it. He wouldn't answer. I asked again, had he been on my property uninvited and witnessed the fence issue himself. Again, nothing. I then asked if township law stated I needed a fence to own a dog and had my dogs even been loose. Again, no answer. Finally, I told the ACO that I was NOT fixing the fence as there was NOT a 'weak spot' and asked him to politely tell my neighbors that same thing.
> ...


Are they citing a state law or a township code. Pennsylvania has no leash law just an under control law but a long as your dog is on private property that wouldn't apply.
What township was this in?


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I think the confusion here is, in the U.S. the judge would not be allowed to levy a monetary judgement for what (in the U.S. at least) amounts to a seperate case.

In other words, the previous attack on your dog would be addressed in seperate case (as mentioned usually a civil case).

I think it was very smart on your part to bring evidence to show cause for what amounts to a false statement against you. The difference is in the U.S. it would have been used as evidence ONLY, not as cause for a monetary judgement against your neighbor.

Interesting that Judges have that latitude in Canada.

I see both sides. On the one hand it sure would help cut down on frivilous cases wasting valuable assets and court time. On the other hand the neighbor was, for practical purposes, judged guilty on case where (he/she) did not have a full opportunity to prepare and defend against. 

Either way I've been following your posts here with interest and am glad you prevailed. 

Though, I am curious, you've listed a few occasions where you've run afoul of AC (like the lunge line incident). Are people fearful of the Malinios in your area? Again, just curious because it seems you've had a bad run of luck with your dog and I'm wondering if the Mals are now running into the same problems as the pitbulls and GSDs.




malinois_16 said:


> No her dog did attack mine and I brought those papers for the judge to see to show she was out for revenge. He was the one who told her to pay the vet bills not me, I wasnt even asking for money. I was just asking to get out of the ticket because she lied about it. I cant make you understand it. I have the paperwork in front of me and thats all that matters.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think given each case has time to prepare, and things generally have to be accepted into evidence on both sides prior to the court date, so both sides have time to prepare it could work to have all matters heard and dealt with at the same time. However, it would burden judges. I mean, a judge has certain evidence, certain protocal in criminal cases, or in traffic court, or in civil court. It seems like many different areas of law that are somewhat specialized would then be combined, making for less consistancy overall. Again, I just do not know much about the law, been to jury duty once or twice, but was never used on one.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I am glad it worked out for you and glad she has to pay your vet bills.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

re the lunge line

I called animal control in my area and asked them about the lunge line. Technically you are not allowed to have a leash longer than 6 feet, so the lunge line exceeds that. However, my local animal control told me that if were obvious that I was training my dog, away from others, in a safe spot that they would not ticket me. They want people to train their dogs. If it appeared that I was using the lunge line as an 20 foot leash, they would ticke me.

Same for retractable leashes, a leash cannot be longer than 6 feet.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm admittedly not a law expert either but I am always interested in the topic of law and learning about it.

I think how evidence is presented depends on the type of case and where it will be heard. Small claims court, for instance, doesn't usually have requirements regarding pre-trial disclosure of evidence. 

In most cases of dog on dog damages, vet bills and related costs would be settled in small claims court (here in the U.S.). Who ends up paying will depend on who the judge deems as not having followed the laws/local ordinances wrt containment, control or custody of the dog(s).

Still I agree with you, it could get quite messy. I'm leaning towards your conclusion too (highlighted in red).





selzer said:


> I think given each case has time to prepare, and things generally have to be accepted into evidence on both sides prior to the court date, so both sides have time to prepare it could work to have all matters heard and dealt with at the same time. However, it would burden judges. I mean, a judge has certain evidence, certain protocal in criminal cases, or in traffic court, or in civil court. It seems like many different areas of law that are somewhat specialized would then be combined, making for less consistancy overall. Again, I just do not know much about the law, been to jury duty once or twice, but was never used on one.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

malinois_16 said:


> No her dog did attack mine and I brought those papers for the judge to see to show she was out for revenge. He was the one who told her to pay the vet bills not me, I wasnt even asking for money. I was just asking to get out of the ticket because she lied about it. I cant make you understand it. I have the paperwork in front of me and thats all that matters.


I am glad that justice was served in your case.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Why do some people seem to have so many problems?


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

No luck maybe?


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Caledon said:


> re the lunge line
> 
> I called animal control in my area and asked them about the lunge line. Technically you are not allowed to have a leash longer than 6 feet, so the lunge line exceeds that. However, my local animal control told me that if were obvious that I was training my dog, away from others, in a safe spot that they would not ticket me. They want people to train their dogs. If it appeared that I was using the lunge line as an 20 foot leash, they would ticke me.
> 
> Same for retractable leashes, a leash cannot be longer than 6 feet.


At the time I was ticketed that year they allowed the use of lunge lines. My ticket didnt state I was being fined for allowing my dog to run at large with a lunge line, I was being fined for having my dog off leash.


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## High5 (Apr 21, 2011)

This is our law in Ontario

The owner of a dog is liable for damages resulting from a bite or attack by the dog on another person or domestic animal. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (1).

An owner who is liable to pay damages under this section is entitled to recover contribution and indemnity from any other person in proportion to the degree to which the other person’s fault or negligence caused or contributed to the damages. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (4).

from

Dog Owners' Liability Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

What if the dog who was bitten owners were negligent or at fault?

I.E My dog is on leash and bites an offleash dog who charges


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

ShenzisMom said:


> What if the dog who was bitten owners were negligent or at fault?
> 
> I.E My dog is on leash and bites an offleash dog who charges


I asked this. I asked if Lincoln was leashed and bit the off leash dog as it was attacking him they told me as long as I following the by law my my dog will NOT be at fault. 

There was a case here, a lab mix who was leashed mauled a 5 month old Shepherd mix puppy breaking her leg. Judge threw it out because the owner of the dog who was attacked...wasnt leashed. 

For those who dont believe they can issue a ticket based on a statement here you go. I took a snap shot of the email I sent out and received back. Names, personal email addys have been whited out for privacy.

Email I sent out









Email I got back just now


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

You don't get many emails do you? Also, the first email isn't in your Sent area??? Very strange.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

I get lots of emails actually. 

That was a snapshot of the email I composed. Let me go get one of it in my sent box since you still think I am lying

ETA- I have 16 emails in my inbox atm


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

There ya go


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

malinois_16 said:


> I get lots of emails actually.
> 
> That was a snapshot of the email I composed. Let me go get one of it in my sent box since you still think I am lying
> 
> ETA- I have 16 emails in my inbox atm


Why bother going through all that trouble? For what? To prove yourself to whom? There are some people that no matter what you do-they will always find fault.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

She was complaining I didnt take a snapshot of my sent box, so I did. So now she cant say "Oh well its not in your sent box so you must not of sent it"


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

malinois_16 said:


> She was complaining I didnt take a snapshot of my sent box, so I did. So now she cant say "Oh well its not in your sent box so you must not of sent it"


Well, hopefully that will satisfy the situation.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Probably not. People here dont like to be shown wrong generally. Oh well. At least for others it shows I sent the email and shows I received one back.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Why is the from AND to on the reply edited out?


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

opcorn:


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

WHY are people obsessing over this? She says she went to court and won. And if she made the whole thing up, why would you care anyway???

jeesh!

anyways, glad everything worked out for you


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Its edited out to protect MY email address and name. The reply was from an inspectors personal account so that was edited out due to PRIVACY reasons.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I don't care--it's purely amusment with this one...can't speak for the others.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Someone called me a liar indirectly by saying I didnt send the email out because it wasnt in my sent box. So I gave them a screenshot of the sent box one. 

Now they have nothing to say because I proved them wrong, thats all. Call it amusement if you wish. 

I have to go, gotta catch some fish to eat


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> Why is the from AND to on the reply edited out?


To keep stalkers from knowing her identity.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> To keep stalkers from knowing her identity.


That must be why the dates of the emails are whited-out too.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

u geiz neeed innr piss? joyn my inr piss grupe hav wum, vodkka, an chescke 

Shhhhhhhhh we r gangg sicret :toasting:


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

malinois_16 said:


> Someone called me a liar indirectly by saying I didnt send the email out because it wasnt in my sent box. So I gave them a screenshot of the sent box one.
> 
> Now they have nothing to say because I proved them wrong, thats all. Call it amusement if you wish.
> 
> I have to go, gotta catch some fish to eat


It's just ironic that you're going through so much effort to prove your point, yet you omit the most important aspects of your email--the proof that it came from the people you say it does.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

malinois_16 said:


> There ya go


You didn't 'prove me wrong' at all. All you have done is highlighted the sent button-msn will show the number of sent items just like it keeps the incoming ones. Suddenly you have 16 (highlighted, usually means not read) new messages. I personally couldn't care less. Its just your constant drive for attention and drama gets a little old.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

It is also ironic for people to care. People post all kinds of things, this is the first time that I have ever heard anyone asked to prove what they are saying. Is she on trial-are you all interagators or the jury? Most people just say-good, I am happy for you when people share good news on their thread. SMH


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)




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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> It is also ironic for people to care. People post all kinds of things, this is the first time that I have ever heard anyone asked to prove what they are saying. Is she on trial-are you all interagators or the jury? Most people just say-good, I am happy for you when people share good news on their thread. SMH


As mal herself said earlier in the thread, if people cared so much they could contact the AC themselves. Since they didn't, it could be assumed they don't.

But post an explanation that has so many holes in it you're flooding the place out....now that always attracts the sharks.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> That must be why the dates of the emails are whited-out too.


Actually the "sent" one says 8/23/11. The reply must have been the current date because it only showed the time of day. So these emails happened just within the last few days.


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## dvsdevelopment (Jul 17, 2011)

malinois_16 said:


> Its edited out to protect MY email address and name. The reply was from an inspectors personal account so that was edited out due to PRIVACY reasons.


Personal account as in a Yahoo! or MSN account? Or personal as in their name at the agency dot com? If the latter, just repost with the first name only blocked out and it'll quiet the masses.

If its from a personal email they'll just say it could be anyone that sent it, even yourself. I would never say such things  but I might be inclined to lean toward that conclusion. I do love me a good bandwagon and all (but not a gang, I haven't been here long enough for a gang).


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

dvsdevelopment said:


> Personal account as in a Yahoo! or MSN account? Or personal as in their name at the agency dot com? If the latter, just repost with the first name only blocked out and it'll quiet the masses.
> 
> If its from a personal email they'll just say it could be anyone that sent it, even yourself. I would never say such things  but I might be inclined to lean toward that conclusion. I do love me a good bandwagon and all (but not a gang, I haven't been here long enough for a gang).


You could start the Haven't Been Here Long Enough Gang.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Good grief.

You people need to get a life. You obsess over the weirdest things. I guess if you're not good enough to make it as an actual judge/jury being a pretend one is good enough, huh?


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## dvsdevelopment (Jul 17, 2011)

Draugr said:


> Good grief.
> 
> You people need to get a life. You obsess over the weirdest things. I guess if you're not good enough to make it as an actual judge/jury being a pretend one is good enough, huh?


Must you obsess over others' obsessions?


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

OBSESS ALL THE THINGS!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think this thread also needs a GROUP HUG


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I think this thread also needs a GROUP HUG


Can I join the "gang" and join in?! :wub:


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Victoria, maybe we should start a GROUP HUG GANG?


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

:lurking: Do you get permission before you hug people or do you just go around hugging?

Please don't pop my personal space bubble oke:


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Victoria, maybe we should start a GROUP HUG GANG?


I'm on board! ;-)


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

I got a reply a couple days later. I dont care, if they dont believe me they can email the spca themselves and ask. The sent button is highlighted because thats the folder where that emails was in the sent section. I have 16 unread in that one before that was today before I checked them. The previous one where it said I only had 1 was another day when I just had a new one come in I havent had time to check..

Take the email addy and email urself.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

WarrantsWifey said:


> I'm on board! ;-)


See that unsuspecting smiley in the middle all happy before the hug?

That's me. I'm hiding from your gang!! :lurking:

:rofl:


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> See that unsuspecting smiley in the middle all happy before the hug?
> 
> That's me. I'm hiding from your gang!! :lurking:
> 
> :rofl:



That's okay, cause I'm watching you and one day,







you'll want a hug from our "gang" and we'll always let you in!


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

:rofl: Those are awesome!


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm glad you won your case and that you also got to have your vet bills paid for!


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## Snickelfritz (Feb 21, 2007)

Syaoransbear said:


> I'm glad you won your case and that you also got to have your vet bills paid for!


Me too!:groovy:


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## kellzey (Apr 12, 2004)

There are some really WEIRD people on here... Sad how this thread got mutilated into the OP having to defend herself and waste time trying to prove something when she was sharing GOOD news with us all here.

Some people need to get out more and enjoy their dogs!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I suppose its now the Weird Gang! :wild:

I knew we were forgetting one yesterday. 

I have been a charter member of that one. :blush:


:silly:oke::boy_snowman::dancingtree: and we cannot forget,


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

selzer said:


>












POOOOOOP!!!!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

WarrantsWifey said:


> POOOOOOP!!!!!


Ya know, that would be an awful smiley if it was followed by one with a foot in the mouth.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

kellzey said:


> There are some really WEIRD people on here... Sad how this thread got mutilated into the OP having to defend herself and waste time trying to prove something when she was sharing GOOD news with us all here.
> 
> Some people need to get out more and enjoy their dogs!


Not to mention my thread isnt on topic....


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

malinois_16 said:


> Not to mention my thread isnt on topic....


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

kellzey, it seems like lots of the op's threads deteriorate into the op defending herself. sometimes you can defend yourself too much. sometimes certain patterns create suspicion. i have noticed some weird people here lately too. people who aren't out to add anything or help anyone here...just want sympathy and/or like to create controversy. people like that come and go all the time. their entertainment value depends on how much time someone has to spend non-productively. 

just an observation from someone who's been here awhile, not directed at anyone in particular, but more like a general "if the shoe fits" kinda post.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Here's a couple for ya Jane. LOL


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I read this whole thread and have to admit it seems the OP does like drama, in all her posts, there is always drama. Guess I am boring, I like a normal everyday type of life, no drama. But at least I know I can go here to get some.
At least you guys have an actual animal control... Here where I live, there is no animal control, its all handled by the sheriff or police department depending on where the incident occurs. There are leash laws in town, but none in the county. The police are pretty quick to come around when bites are concerned to humans because of the rabies factor. We had a neighbor shoot my granddaughters 4 month old Golden retriever walking through their front yard, he had got out of the fenced yard and went to visit the local kids. This was in a trailer court. The guy shot him, threw him in a truck and went and dumped him in the hills, but would not tell us where he was. We called the cops and he was fined for shooting in a neighborhood, and when we went to court he had to pay the cost of the puppy to my daughter. He still would not tell us where he dumped him, but it was winter and very few roads were open in the hills. Ironically, my husband found the puppy during the spring thaw, the body was frozen and he had his collar on. Finally my granddaughter was able to bury her puppy.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That is terrible. What kind of person shoots a child's puppy? Terrible!

Unfortunately, the same things happen around here. Chasing a deer will get a dog shot in a hurry and the people doing the shooting don't bother to notify the owners.  No leash laws in the country, dogs loose in the roads and chasing cars...ugh...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Jax08 said:


> Here's a couple for ya Jane. LOL


:thumbup:


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Very mature. I will remember this when I reply to one of your threads. It will be going off topic


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## KSdogowner (Jun 22, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> IThe guy shot him, threw him in a truck and went and dumped him in the hills, but would not tell us where he was. We called the cops and he was fined for shooting in a neighborhood, and when we went to court he had to pay the cost of the puppy to my daughter. He still would not tell us where he dumped him, but it was winter and very few roads were open in the hills. Ironically, my husband found the puppy during the spring thaw, the body was frozen and he had his collar on. Finally my granddaughter was able to bury her puppy.


OMG wyominggrandma, that is terrible. Poor puppy. I can't understand some people. This is just awful. I feel so bad for your daughter.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

yea, we have that here. I will admit to shooting dogs that are chasing my horses. If I know who the dogs belong to, I always call and give a warning" if your dogs chase my horses/cows again, I will shoot them, so please keep them home". Of course they don't and once they are shot, then we have actually laid them by the side of the road and then the sheriff will come pick them up. Same with wild deer/elk/ moose, if they are seen chasing, they get shot. 
The guy who shot the puppy is an A #1 jerk and a disgusting waste of a human being. He told us, " I won't pay a dime for that dog, take me to court and I will win".. The joke was on him, the judge nailed him bad and ripped him apart for shooting a puppy. The guy and his wife still glare at me when I see them.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Jax08, I LOVE those ... Made me laugh out loud.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

malinois_16 said:


> Very mature. I will remember this when I reply to one of your threads. It will be going off topic


I don't put up threads for every little thing that happens in my life...but your thread has me still wondering why AC even was involved....
especially when AC has real cases to deal with.








http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...dozens-animals-rescued-cruelty-situation.html


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

But you call and warn. The person who shoots them around us does NOT.  I had a person come up to me at work one day and light into me over "my" beagle chasing deer. Ummm...that dog had died 2 years before. She didn't have much to say after that. We had a problem with a neighbors dog coming down and harassing our Red outside his pasture. I could never catch the dog doing it though. Eventually, they learned to keep that dog on a leash but only after she went missing while chasing deer with the other neighbors dogs and one didn't come back (a beautiful GSD  )


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

sagelfn said:


> u geiz neeed innr piss? joyn my inr piss grupe hav wum, vodkka, an chescke
> 
> Shhhhhhhhh we r gangg sicret :toasting:


innr piss? EEEWWWWEEEEE! I like vodka on occasion however....so count me in on the vodka and cheesecake......Please? I ma lonely n my kids drive me nutz.............


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Well, I at least try. If I can't get hold of the owners or don't know who the dog belongs to , then it is shot. There are lots of folks who drive up from Utah and just dump dogs on the road, figuring they will make it to a farm or ranch and be taken care of. Not usually what happens, they usually get shot or run over before making it to a home.
Right now, dogs are coming up missing from their yards down in the valley south where I live. Not sure if they are being stolen or taken out and shot.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

SERIOUSLY? Gee, don't know whos dog this is...pop a cap in it? Living in the wild wild west I guess...
must be aliens or wolves nabbin' them critters. Who da H would STEAL a dog just to go shoot it? bed time 4 me, I'm gettin annoyed.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Yeah I guess the answer is shoot the dog. Guess next time this little dog goes after Link I will tell Link to "packen" since the owner has been told to leash her dog several times.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Wow.

I feel like I just walked into the second grade.

Way to handle this like adults, everyone.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

First off, I am talking about dogs that are chasing the horses through fences. Chasing cows through fences. The livestock laws are taken very serious around here, ranchers make a living with the livestock that stray or uncontrolled dogs are killing. Dogs are shot for chasing deer/elk/moose, etc also. The law is the law.
As far as the dogs being taken from yards, nobody knows what is happening to them. One lady I know was at church and her dog , a brown lab, who loved everyone, was taken out of her home while she was gone. About three or four more have been taken from yards. No dogs are turning up dumped or running loose, they just disappear. 
This is not something to be sarcastic about, people are just losing their pets from their yards. The sheriff has no clue what they are doing, shooting them, killing them, selling them, nobody can seem to find any signs of the dogs.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

My dog is my property and I have every right to protect him. My dog doesnt differ from livestock. I dont even care if its a little dog, the owners have been warned FIVE times and the next time my dog WILL be defending himself


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm really glad everything worked out for you!



Draugr said:


> Wow.
> 
> I feel like I just walked into the second grade.
> 
> Way to handle this like adults, everyone.


I was thinking the same thing.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Dogs have turned up missing around here before. The rumor was a van was picking them up for animal research.  Good reasons to not let your animals run loose.

Livestock laws are pretty much the same in all of the US. They are actually a bit stricter in the western states. Out here, if you hit a cow in the road, it is the farmer's fault for not having the cow in a pasture. In KS, when my brother hit a cow in the road, there are free range laws so he was at fault.

Wyominggrandma - don't let anyone drag you into an argument.


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## cta (May 24, 2011)

how sad for the people having their dog's taken from them! that is my biggest fear. i would hate not knowing what happened to my dog. i hope the sheriff gets to the bottom of it!


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

malinois_16 said:


> My dog is my property and I have every right to protect him. My dog doesnt differ from livestock. I dont even care if its a little dog, the owners have been warned FIVE times and the next time my dog WILL be defending himself


I totally understand where you're coming from here, but you gotta think about how this will probably play out for you and your dog. If you let your dog defend himself against a little dog, your dog will probably get blamed whether it was his fault or not. It's not fair, but it is generally how these things work. Is it possible for you to start carrying pepper spray or something along those lines? That way your dog isn't at risk of being labeled dangerous for attacking another dog.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Wyoming is a free range law also. If you hit a cow or horse, you pay the owner what its worth. Too bad if you get hurt or your car gets destroyed, farmers/ranchers don't have to have good fences, its your responsiblity to watch for loose livestock.
Jax08. I won't get into an argument, not worth my time. . Thanks for the warning though.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Exactly! My poor brother, whose car was severely damaged, was responsible. I was stunned! But I'm an east coaster so our rules are so different! LOL

The owners that really make me mad are the ones that KNOW their dogs are chasing deer and livestock and still let them run. They are 100% at fault for any harm that comes to their dog, IMO. There were some St. Bernards chasing DH's uncle's cows and the owner just continued to let them run. The owners are very lucky that uncle is so nice and eventually they got the message to keep their dogs at home. Unfortunately, another farmer wasn't so nice.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

"oh, but I live in the country so its okay for my dogs to run free and have fun." Seems to be the mindset of so many dog owners today who let their dogs run. 
Makes me so mad, usually the dog will get shot or kicked and injured and then the owners start crying" you have to pay the vet bill, you shot my dog or your horse hurt my dog".. Not gonna happen of course and if they go to the sheriff or to court, they get told about the laws and livestock. Then they just get another dog are start over.
Drives me nuts.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I totally understand where you're coming from here, but you gotta think about how this will probably play out for you and your dog. If you let your dog defend himself against a little dog, your dog will probably get blamed whether it was his fault or not. It's not fair, but it is generally how these things work. Is it possible for you to start carrying pepper spray or something along those lines? That way your dog isn't at risk of being labeled dangerous for attacking another dog.


I have already spoken to the SPCA and have it in writing that as long as my dog is leashed, and there is paper trail that her dog has done it more then once, the judge wont care whos dog is larger, he will care about whos dog was following the law.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I know! No, just because you live in the country does not mean your dog has a right to crap in my yard and destroy the deer hanging in the tree. (I thought DS was going to blow a gasket over that one) And if there is an animal out there chasing my horse that I can catch, it won't end well for the owner of that animal. I will make them pay for all medical bills and Cornell isn't cheap!

I've wondered if that is why he chases Jax out of the pasture now. He used to be fine with her. In fact, she had no fear and would run right between his legs and he would just look at her. Until one day he decided she wasn't to be in his pasture. I don't think I've ever screamed like I did that day!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Though I understand the frustration, you would truly just let your dog retaliate against a small dog?

Wow


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## cta (May 24, 2011)

i always think of my dog as a loaded weapon. not because he is, but because of his size and the size of his teeth, he has the potential to do damage. when i used to take him to the dog park (i despise them now) and he would get ambushed by a smaller dog, i would take him and leave only because i would NEVER want him to bite another dog..even if he was taking a lot of heat. and he did and still didn't retaliate, but that's besides the point. yeah it's annoying that people don't care about their dog's behaviors, but if your dog bit a little dog, it would just look bad for both you and the dog. totally not worth it.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Barb E said:


> Though I understand the frustration, you would truly just let your dog retaliate against a small dog?
> 
> Wow


Well I wouldnt want him to per say. But things happen. I walk by and the dog charges him while I am biking with him, I fall and that split second my dog defends himself. Do I blame him? Nope...but yet it would be okay to use my foot to defend my dog. I dont care the size of any dog. It has no right to put holes in my dog period. Whether it weighs 150lbs or 2lbs.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

Barb E said:


> Though I understand the frustration, you would truly just let your dog retaliate against a small dog?
> 
> Wow


Dogs don't weigh opponents. A Chihuahua attacked me (I have posted this before) in my home, came runnin' in the door, and my GSD removed it from my leg, took it to the yard, and shook killed it before I could even think, it happened so fast...
Dogs are dogs...a big dog is not gonna think "wow, this guys a whole lot smaller than me, I;m not gonna mess with it..."


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

wow, i just walked into a playground brawl.....


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

It's our job as the human to protect our dogs from harm whenever we can. 
That for some people means carrying a walking stick so they can block nasty small dogs or simply finding another route to use.

I know someone that has to walk two blocks out of her way to avoid a Poodle that seems to despise all dogs larger than he is and is often loose in the front yard. I no longer walk down my street because there is a medium sized dog that goes insane when I walk by with Dante and I'm afraid that dog is actually going to come through the window one day.

Again, I understand the frustration but I can just about guarantee that if that dog charges Lincoln and Lincoln retaliates and harms the dog, which he probably will given the size difference, that it will be trouble for you. Perhaps not with the law but certainly. with the people that own the small dog.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

dazedtrucker said:


> Dogs don't weigh opponents. A Chihuahua attacked me (I have posted this before) in my home, came runnin' in the door, and my GSD removed it from my leg, took it to the yard, and shook killed it before I could even think, it happened so fast...
> Dogs are dogs...a big dog is not gonna think "wow, this guys a whole lot smaller than me, I;m not gonna mess with it..."


Of course they don't, what I'm saying is that to just continue along with the attitude that I'll just let my dog retaliate against a small dog, to me, is...well like I said before...wow.

And believe me, I've seen plenty of "small dog syndrome", I'm sorry you had to experience that with the Chihuahua


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

malinois_16 said:


> I have already spoken to the SPCA and have it in writing that as long as my dog is leashed, and there is paper trail that her dog has done it more then once, the judge wont care whos dog is larger, he will care about whos dog was following the law.


I think that's great that the SPCA told you that, but I would still be cautious, and try to do everything to prevent your dog from even the possibility of being seen as dangerous. Sometimes what people say and what ends up happening are completely different. I just don't want you to end up getting hurt because you trusted the word of someone else. In the end, that officer has no idea how a judge will act; he can give you his best guess based on a variety of facts, but he isn't the judge so nothing is certain. Like I said, I totally get where you're coming from, if anything, dog, man, whatever, hurt Sasha I'd be livid. I still wouldn't let her fight back. If someone's going to fight it's going to be me lol! I hope that you don't even have to deal with this person or their dog anymore; that would be best for all involved


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

I understand that. But is it fair that this dog slips by my feet and grabs my dog whos panicking. I really do not think he would ever bite a small dog...hes had a few chances to grab this one and he hasnt. But, you just never know. 

They already have a problem with me. I havent had another issue yet, but have come pretty close. I cannot avoid that house. Its either I avoid that one and risk the neighbours black retriever mix come through the window and I KNOW my dog would bite that dog back and I would have a hard time separating them or...walk by the little 5 pound dogs house..

I have a small dog and I can honestly say I am saddened on how people let small dogs get away with murder. They develope what I call "small dog syndrome"...mine isnt like that. She will NEVER be allowed to act like that either and I dont think its funny like most small dog owners do


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I think that's great that the SPCA told you that, but I would still be cautious, and try to do everything to prevent your dog from even the possibility of being seen as dangerous. Sometimes what people say and what ends up happening are completely different. I just don't want you to end up getting hurt because you trusted the word of someone else. In the end, that officer has no idea how a judge will act; he can give you his best guess based on a variety of facts, but he isn't the judge so nothing is certain. Like I said, I totally get where you're coming from, if anything, dog, man, whatever, hurt Sasha I'd be livid. I still wouldn't let her fight back. If someone's going to fight it's going to be me lol! I hope that you don't even have to deal with this person or their dog anymore; that would be best for all involved


There are certain situations tho where a bite happens like that. Growing up, we had a Shepherd and he walked our property. He was mainly outside and inside at night. He was eating his food, when a neighbouring dog jumped out fence and tried to steal his food. The other dog bit him and he well, lets just say the dog had to be put down by the time he was done. He was in our back yard where he was suppose to be. We had NO idea this dog jumped our 7 foot fence...So how were we responsible. Sure if we were right there, We would of stopped anything from happening. But we were eating dinner inside and suddenly heard this horrid screaming. 

Looked back on the camera later to see what happened. Brought the dog to the owners house with a video tape and said sorry for your loss. Never heard anything from them..


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Barb E said:


> It's our job as the human to protect our dogs from harm whenever we can.
> That for some people means carrying a walking stick so they can block nasty small dogs or simply finding another route to use.
> 
> *I know someone that has to walk two blocks out of her way to avoid a Poodle that seems to despise all dogs larger than he is and is often loose in the front yard. I no longer walk down my street because there is a medium sized dog that goes insane when I walk by with Dante and I'm afraid that dog is actually going to come through the window one day.*
> ...



And that is so annoying! When I was living at home I couldn't walk down the road behind our house because one of the neighbors told my mom that there was a pit bull that was VERY dog aggressive (this guy had a pit bull too so he wasn't bias against them or anything). So I would take Sasha into town and walk her. We would park at my grandma's, and at first I would walk that street all the way from one end to the other. However, after a few times I quit doing that because there were a few dogs along that route that were simply too risky. There were these one people who had dogs that were apparently on an e-fence system and those dogs would run up to the property line and bark their heads off at Sasha and I. I just didn't trust that the dogs wouldn't just come on over. There were other dogs that were in an out door run but would stand on their dog houses with their paws over the top of the run and go nuts, and I was scared that they were just going to come on over the top (my childhood dog actually did that from time to time. Not to get to other dogs, but to come and do whatever we were doing). By the end of our time at my mothers I was practically walking a crazy maze across town! I wish people would just be responsible.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

malinois_16 said:


> I understand that. But is it fair that this dog slips by my feet and grabs my dog whos panicking. I really do not think he would ever bite a small dog...hes had a few chances to grab this one and he hasnt. But, you just never know.
> 
> It certainly is not fair! I'm with you 100% on that one, but...sometimes something isn't fair it just is what it is.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's funny either, and it's actually really dangerous for the little dog. My grandma had a poodle that had bit multiple people, and dogs. In fact, every time the dog came to our house it would run over and just latch onto my golden retriever. He was such a big lug that he'd just look at the poodle and just keep walking. However, this poodle tried that one time with a neighbor's GSD one time and got tore up pretty bad. My grandma still let her be off leash all the time, and just said, "Well I hope you learned you lesson Gypsy." I'm just sitting there thinking, "It's a dog! Can they learn lessons? Yes! Has this one? No, it's still biting my dog! Get it on a leash!" I So yes, I understand what you're saying. I also agree it's not fair, but like I said before sometimes things just are what they are. You've got an irresponsible neighbor and it sounds like you need a walking stick, pepper spray, or something to keep you and your dog safe.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

Barb E said:


> Of course they don't, what I'm saying is that to just continue along with the attitude that I'll just let my dog retaliate against a small dog, to me, is...well like I said before...wow.
> 
> And believe me, I've seen plenty of "small dog syndrome", I'm sorry you had to experience that with the Chihuahua


I agree. I did not plan that situation (duh) ...and the reprecussions where horrible. My dog got a 72 hour quarentine at the Denver pound. She was honestly never the same. I spent all the time I could with her while she was in there, and when I went to pick her up, the submissive slinking was awful. /she was such a sweet baby before, it was horrid. (this was 10 years ago,) She would kill any little dog in her path. One of those issues I could not fix, she was permanently aggressive towards small dogs.
Why? Because some IDIOT thought it was neat to let their ankle biter run loose.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Whether it would be 'acceptable' (under the law if he was leashed and the other dog was not) for Lincoln to bite the small dog if it came after him again isn't the issue. Lincoln already has problems with other dogs. He's already afraid of them. Letting him retaliate (or even be in a position where he is so afraid he's considering it) is NOT going to help him become more confident around dogs. An action like that would set his training back immensely. 

It's up to us to protect our dogs. Especially those with fear issues. They should never be put in a position where they feel the need to defend themselves. It will never end well. And, even if your dog is on leash and the other dog is not, he's still going to look like the bad guy. Maybe not according to the law but, in the neighborhood, rumors will spread. I'd hate for my dog to be known for attacking another dog, whether he was provoked or not!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Ditto Jamie!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Absolutely in agreement with Jamie...great post!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I can't believe this thread is still going on! It sounds like the OP is going to do what she's going to do no matter what anyone else thinks, and will argue about it as long as people are willing to argue against her. Kinda pointless, IMO. :shrug:


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Seems some people here appear to think that the point of a forum is the share viewpoints so long as other people are adopting those viewpoints. But when someone doesn't share their viewpoint, then the point of a forum is to make them accept their viewpoint.

The OP doesn't agree with you. It's not sad, it's not happy, it's not anything. It is what it is...just move along.

When did the point of a forum move away from sharing opinions, thoughts, concerns, etc? When did it stop becoming okay to disagree???


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)




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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

Everybody now.....

this is the thread that does not end... yes it goes on and on my friend.... some people started posting on it.... not knowing what it was... and they'll continue reading it forever just because.....


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

Hey, guys!. Just for fine, try reading this thread from last to first! it's weirdly compelling.

jelpy


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

dvsdevelopment said:


> In the United States we have criminal law (i.e. tickets, arrests) and civil law.
> 
> If my dog attacked another dog and I was at fault then I might receive a ticket. I would then head on down to the courthouse where a judge or jury would determine my guilt or innocence. A fine, restitution, jail time, probation, etc... might be assessed.
> 
> ...


It's exactly the same way up here in Canada. I stopped reading after page 4 because it seems to be going off-topic, but I wanted to let you guys know that our system up here in the great white north is basically identical to yours.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Draugr said:


> Seems some people here appear to think that the point of a forum is the share viewpoints so long as other people are adopting those viewpoints. But when someone doesn't share their viewpoint, then the point of a forum is to make them accept their viewpoint.
> 
> The OP doesn't agree with you. It's not sad, it's not happy, it's not anything. It is what it is...just move along.
> 
> When did the point of a forum move away from sharing opinions, thoughts, concerns, etc? When did it stop becoming okay to disagree???


_*** removed by Mod ***_


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> *** removed by Mod, for reason as above ****


He is welcome here. So yes, he is still here.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

malinois_16 said:


> He is welcome here. So yes, he is still here.


_*** Removed by Mod *** _


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Davey Benson said:


> Everybody now.....
> 
> this is the thread that does not end... yes it goes on and on my friend.... some people started posting on it.... not knowing what it was... and they'll continue reading it forever just because.....


:rofl:MUCH BETTER THAN KUMBAYYA!!! LOVE IT.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> *** Removed by Mod ***


When you insult a friend, expect me to reply. Oh, still planning to breed your dog?


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

malinois_16 said:


> When you insult a friend, expect me to reply. Oh, still planning to breed your dog?


Actually yes I am, thanks for asking!!!!! 

Oh and the CORRECT term is STUD my dog.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh and I'm walking away NOW, before you get us BOTH banned..... Have a wonderful night Malinois....


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Nice, guess that means pretty much any dog with a set of testicles is breed worthy .

I laugh when people post here they plan to "stud" their dog out, or breed their female and if they are a new member, they get slammed. But its okay for a member whos been around for a while to do it.

I am done with this thread, its obviously going no where and fast.

ETA- Posted at the same time it appears.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh and you know, you suckered me in, one last time. No not just ANY dog is breed worthy, but MY dog is BREED worthy so far, as long as he can get his ScHh title and his hip scores are good, then yes, I'll go through REPUTABLE BREEDERS to stud him. He is a solid nerve working dog, who has great genetics, and YES, he goes around that flow chart that is posted on the forum all the time. That is what you get when you buy a purebred GSD from a reputable breeder and not a mutt or a dog you have no idea what your getting into. Mali.... I'm so sorry you let me stoop so low to your level. I know I'm better than that. Goodnight, I have classes in the morning that I need sleep for.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

This is getting personal again. Keep it respectful please, or warnings will be sent out.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> This is getting personal again. Keep it respectful please, or warnings will be sent out.


I am about to PM you...


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

You beat me to the punch! Thanks!


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

You stooped yourself down. I didnt make you . Just because a dog has ONE title and passes hip scores doesnt mean its breed worthy IMO. But thats a conversation for another thread. 

I think a mod should just close this thread because its obviously people cant stay on topic

ETA- I see all posted at the same time. Thanks Castlemaid


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

malinois_16 said:


> You stooped yourself down. I didnt make you . Just because a dog has ONE title and passes hip scores doesnt mean its breed worthy IMO. But thats a conversation for another thread.
> 
> I think a mod should just close this thread because its obviously people cant stay on topic
> 
> ETA- I see all posted at the same time. Thanks Castlemaid


Oh wow, now threads should be closed if they do not stay on topic. I wonder what WarrantsWifey's decision to use his dog as a stud down the line has to do with your day in court. Oh, I guess it can be off topic if you take it there. Is that in the rules, that only the OP can take a thread off topic?


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

Intentionally allowing a large powerful dog to retaliate would be like allowing your high schooler to beat up an elementary school kid. You wouldn't. 
First you would deal with parents, the the officials but in the end you protect your dog with the lowest level of physical action necessary to ensure the safety of your dog.

First rule of thumb is avoidance.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

MountainGSDs said:


> Intentionally allowing a large powerful dog to retaliate would be like allowing your high schooler to beat up an elementary school kid. You wouldn't.
> First you would deal with parents, the the officials but in the end you protect your dog with the lowest level of physical action necessary to ensure the safety of your dog.
> 
> First rule of thumb is avoidance.


Well said! It is much easier to avoid a situation, then it is to spend a dog's entire life time attempting to work through dog aggression. 

If I can't handle a 5lb dog snapping at my heels, then I have no business with a 90lb dog at the end of a leash.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

WarrantsWifey said:


> but MY dog is BREED worthy so far, as long as he can get his ScHh title and his hip scores are good, then yes, I'll go through REPUTABLE BREEDERS to stud him. He is a solid nerve working dog, who has great genetics, and YES, he goes around that flow chart that is posted on the forum all the time.


Oh Victoria...now I'll be watching to see what he can do. :wub: I've heard good things about your breeder! So we need lots and lots of updates on him!


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> Oh Victoria...now I'll be watching to see what he can do. :wub: I've heard good things about your breeder! So we need lots and lots of updates on him!


Thanks, I'm spending lots of time on training and getting him ready for his AD and breed survey in November! He is a work horse!! Thank god he has an amazing off switch!! You wouldn't see that though when he goes to "work". I'm gonna make a thread later when I get out of class. Have new video of training yesterday!!  ScHh is so much fun!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Make sure you post it on the other board too! I spend more time there! LOL


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> Make sure you post it on the other board too! I spend more time there! LOL


The one joined last night? Okay!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yep! I saw your name there earlier today.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

back for a few,,victoria I'll take one of killie's puppies LOL..titles or not !


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> back for a few,,victoria I'll take one of killie's puppies LOL..titles or not !


I'll keep you in mind in a few years!!  I want a female of his, going to br spayed of course. Going to be VERY picking put pairing him.... Can't risk a bad breeding. Thankfully I only have the male!!


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