# Is this too much, too little??



## GSDLover2000

What is a fair amount for purebred german shepherds? Is $400 too much, or too little. And would ti be fair to ask lower?? Thanks!


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## Gretchen

Are you selling or buying?
If selling its up to you, how much you want to get back on your investment?
If buying, then it is what market is dictating in your area whether its fair or not.


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## Jaxx's mom

Jaxx was 300$ but the breeders (I guess you could say BYB because they are off Craigslist, but hips had been scanned) said that we could have him for 225$ because it was in the middle of the night ( we left at midnight, three hour drive!) if you want to get a pup from a "GOOD" breeder then that's a different story. I've seen some for 1000 and some for 5000. It all depends on the breeder. 


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## Castlemaid

For a well bred dog plan on spending somewhere between 1000 to 2500$, 

If you are not willing to spend that much, then the best thing is to use your money to rescue a dog, and not use it to support irresponsible breeding. 

Of course, price is no guarantee about quality. Finding a good breeder is not easy.


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## bella~too

We paid $700 for our Bella2. She was vaccinated and dewormed and had a clean vet report.


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## GSDLover2000

I found a breeder on craigslist. The pups are adorable, the parents are for sure pure bred, and very attractive. I heard in one of my posts, you don't want a dog if he/she is avoiding the camera, because that means it is shy. All the puppies want to be front and center of the camera. They are asking 400, and I know some go for a thousand. So, do you think this person is trying to get rid of them quick?? Also, could I ask for it lower, say 300? 275? Anything around there, or is that asking too much?? (he has 10 pups, so if he sold it to me a little lower he still makes 3,600!)


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## Jaxx's mom

GSDLover2000 said:


> I found a breeder on craigslist. The pups are adorable, the parents are for sure pure bred, and very attractive. I heard in one of my posts, you don't want a dog if he/she is avoiding the camera, because that means it is shy. All the puppies want to be front and center of the camera. They are asking 400, and I know some go for a thousand. So, do you think this person is trying to get rid of them quick?? Also, could I ask for it lower, say 300? 275? Anything around there, or is that asking too much?? (he has 10 pups, so if he sold it to me a little lower he still makes 3,600!)


Off of Craigslist 400 Is average. I wouldn't lower it, that's just me. I feel if I asked to lower it the breeder would become annoyed and give me a bad pup! Lol maybe that's just me ;P 
Post pictures of the parents, I'd love to see them! I just adored jaxx's father, he was so beautiful. He was a sable like Jaxx and has a lot of the same coloration. His mom was Black and Tan, and beautiful too! 


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## GSDLover2000

First one is the dad. Second is the mom. Last 2 are the pups.


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## Chicagocanine

What sort of health tests do the parents have? How about temperament of the parents, any titles or working certifications to give an idea of that? 
I think if you are buying a pup from parents with no health testing at the minimum, you are really taking a gamble. You may be "saving money" on the purchase price but you are more likely to end up with health issues in the future and are more likely to spend a lot more at the vet in the long run. Of course there is no guarantee at any dog will be healthy but if they are not breeding with health in mind they are more likely to have issues. If they are not doing any health trsting or anything, IMO it's not worth it to buy a pup from someone like that because what exactly are you paying for, just lining the breeder's pockets? You may as well get a rescue, and save a dog rather than support someone who is breeding for money and not contributing anything to the breed.


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## skier16

400 is definitely below average going rates good purebred dogs. i paid 1600 for mine and i dont think that is that uncommon. the cheapest ive seen that have good health certs and pedigree are 1000 in my area.


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## GSDLover2000

Chicagocanine said:


> What sort of health tests do the parents have? How about temperament of the parents, any titles or working certifications to give an idea of that?
> I think if you are buying a pup from parents with no health testing at the minimum, you are really taking a gamble. You may be "saving money" on the purchase price but you are more likely to end up with health issues in the future and are more likely to spend a lot more at the vet in the long run. Of course there is no guarantee at any dog will be healthy but if they are not breeding with health in mind they are more likely to have issues. If they are not doing any health trsting or anything, IMO it's not worth it to buy a pup from someone like that because what exactly are you paying for, just lining the breeder's pockets? You may as well get a rescue, and save a dog rather than support someone who is breeding for money and not contributing anything to the breed.


They are are hip tested, have a health guarantee, and AKC registered. (the parents) . They look very healthy, and happy pups. I think I should jump on this quick!


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## AkariKuragi

From someone who went through heartache for the sake of getting a puppy quickly...

Before you purchase a puppy visit the breeder and ask to see health certificates and registration papers for the parents and then see the parents. Then check out the puppies. Look to see which puppies are shy and which are overly pushy. Have the pups been wormed/had their shots? What condition are they in? Are they all happy and healthy? If the answer to those questions are yes, then consider buying one. If they aren't, don't give in to those cute faces. If you get a dog with a bad temperament, that cute face could turn into a snarling, terrified monster. If you get one with bad health, are you prepared to spend thousands of dollars on vet bills?

I was in a hurry to get a puppy myself and ended up settling for less than what I wanted because she was cheap and cute. Within a week she cost us $5000 in medical bills and she didn't make it. So just be careful and make a logical decision, not an emotional one.


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## GSDLover2000

AkariKuragi said:


> From someone who went through heartache for the sake of getting a puppy quickly...
> 
> Before you purchase a puppy visit the breeder and ask to see health certificates and registration papers for the parents and then see the parents. Then check out the puppies. Look to see which puppies are shy and which are overly pushy. Have the pups been wormed/had their shots? What condition are they in? Are they all happy and healthy? If the answer to those questions are yes, then consider buying one. If they aren't, don't give in to those cute faces. If you get a dog with a bad temperament, that cute face could turn into a snarling, terrified monster. If you get one with bad health, are you prepared to spend thousands of dollars on vet bills?
> 
> I was in a hurry to get a puppy myself and ended up settling for less than what I wanted because she was cheap and cute. Within a week she cost us $5000 in medical bills and she didn't make it. So just be careful and make a logical decision, not an emotional one.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


She... passed on? I am so sorry! I hate that you had to go through that. Before I even consider getting one for sure, I will set up an appointment to see them, and meet the parents, and get health records, etc. Thanks for the advice


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## nitemares

Sire and dam look good and healthy, and the pups look clean and indoors, but these are just pictures. i agree go see them in person, check their ceritificates, health checks, if everything seem normal i think you should go ahead. Not everyone can buy a $1000+ dog. My first dog was 180 Egyptian pound, that's like $19. was super healthy, died of a freakish accident while not in my care. My second dog was 1250 Euro's (including shipping from Czech) he's healthy but got a bit of an allergy problem that is environmental but very manageable. I was lucky though with both dogs, most of my friends who buy from hobby breeders around here end up with multiple issues, including aggression.


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## Mary&Stella

My Stella was 400 Euro ( approx 550 USD). Both parents are titled and she was checked out by a vet, and from a reputable breeder. Although I do beleive she was a little less expensive due to her being a long hair !!!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Should have been posted in the puppy section. Moved. You're welcome.


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## NancyJ

There is more to breeding good dogs than putting together two attractive dogs. 

--How do the pedigrees work together? Do they know the positive and negative effects of various combinations?
--Have they bred this pair before? How did the pups turn out?
--A "warranty" sounds nice but in reality it usually means if the pup gets sick with some inherited condition that you have to return it to get another pup, something very few people would actually do.
--Craigslist is scary - for all you know these are pictures they put up of someone else's dogs and they will offer to "meet you" somewhere with the pups. 
--There is nothing to "jump on" you can find $400 pups on craiglist all day long. Ask for the pedigree, ask to see the OFA paperwork of the parents. 

I thought pup sales were not even allowed on craigslist. I think is the same everywhere:
craigslist | about > prohibited items



Several have given you good advice and you have $6000 saved up. A good breeder is not necessarily making a profit on that litter of $1200 puppies because of all they have invested in working and showing the breeding stock


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## JakodaCD OA

I thought you were going to the shelter yesterday with your parents?

I'm sorry and I don't want to be harsh or mean, but you and your parents are all over the place One minute you can't have a dog, then the next you can, then you can't, and now your looking at these puppies? 

What happened with the rescue aussie and gsd's? 

You say you've educated yourself on gsd's/aussies / goldens..IF so, then I would think you'd have educated yourself on what a good breeder is, (should you choose that route). 

I'm not saying the craiglist add you posted is 'not' a good breeder. You 'say' they are hip tested,,have you seen the parents OFA paperwork? 

Like Nancy said above, there is more to getting a good dog than throwing a couple nice looking ones together. 

You seem to be now 'impulse' shopping, you sound to me, like your going to take anything your parents allow you to at the moment. 

I would take Nancy's post above VERY seriously. 

So 'today' your parents are back to letting you have a dog? What will they say tomorrow? I think you need to slow down and instead of what YOU want, take into consideraton what a puppy/dog NEEDS. And why if you buy, going to a reputable breeder is the place to spend your money.


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## Shade

jocoyn said:


> There is more to breeding good dogs than putting together two attractive dogs.
> 
> --How do the pedigrees work together? Do they know the positive and negative effects of various combinations?
> --Have they bred this pair before? How did the pups turn out?
> --A "warranty" sounds nice but in reality it usually means if the pup gets sick with some inherited condition that you have to return it to get another pup, something very few people would actually do.
> --Craigslist is scary - for all you know these are pictures they put up of someone else's dogs and they will offer to "meet you" somewhere with the pups.
> --There is nothing to "jump on" you can find $400 pups on craiglist all day long. Ask for the pedigree, ask to see the OFA paperwork of the parents.
> 
> I thought pup sales were not even allowed on craigslist. I think is the same everywhere:
> craigslist | about > prohibited items
> 
> 
> 
> Several have given you good advice and you have $6000 saved up. A good breeder is not necessarily making a profit on that litter of $1200 puppies because of all they have invested in working and showing the breeding stock


 
Great post, just because the puppies are cheap doesn't make them more attractive or healthy.

My major concern as with other people on here is the back and forth, first with your parents saying no then yes then no again. The last thing anyone wants is for you to finally get a dog then your parents change their mind and the dog is returned. Secondly, one moment you're looking at GSD's, then Aussies, then GSD's. Also one moment rescues and then breeders. You say you wanted an older dog around 2 years old and now you're looking at puppies?

I wouldn't get a puppy unless your parents are 100% committed, there's no way a puppy will be able to be crated for long periods of time while you're at school. That means your mother or other family member in the house will be responsible for looking after it, are they going to get very upset if the dog has accidents because they're not watching? What about it chewing on things or whining and howling often in the crate? Puppies are a ton of work for someone home even fulltime, most people take at least an extended lunch to go home in the middle of the day and let the dog out and play and feed it or get someone else to do it. Not to mention financially you’ll have to pay for at least two rounds of shots and deworming, spaying or neutering, all the supplies and puppy classes to boot. In my first year with Delgado I spent over $4000 on him between the purchase price, supplies, vet, etc and that was without a single emergency vet visit or expense! That $6000 you have can be eaten up very quickly and you’ll be left with nothing for college or a car or anything else you are going to need in the next few years.

You say you've researched and planned, but I have to admit I'm starting to doubt that if you are that it's sinking in. I understand the drive to have your own pet; I really do as I went through it as well. I was raised around animals my entire life as family pets but I never had my own until I owned a budgie at 11 years old. I didn't get my first dog until I was 23, I had my own apartment and was close enough to my work I could go home at lunch and was financially stable so I went to the humane society and brought home a 8 year old cocker spaniel. 

You really have to think about what's best for you, the family, and for the dog. Bringing a dog into a household which doesn't want it is horrible, no one will be happy in the situation guaranteed and it won't end well


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## Liesje

Whatever you pay, it's generally tacky to try to negotiate, so I would not ask for a lower price. Sometimes a breeder offers a lower price to a good friend, someone they trust will train and title the dog to its potential, or if the dog has some more serious faults but it would be considered rude to just ask for a lower price.


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## Magwart

You must do careful investigation before going this route. That doesn't mean just posting pictures. Since the parents are allegedly AKC registered and health certified, ask for copies of the OFA certs, and the full pedigrees and post them here. Ask people here to evaluate them. If the quality is there, they will stand up to scrutiny. If not, why support this kind of breeder? 

Have you read the many, many, many threads here about the difference between BYB and hobby breeders? In all your "research," have you come across any of the following:

-The descriptions about the way some puppy mills front as "hobby breeders" on CL, sometimes with promises of health certs, staged pictures of dogs in homes, fake homes to do meet-and-greets to hide the huge, nasty kennel operation with miserable dogs in cages, etc.? 
-The way some unscrupulous BYB will cycle through and "use up" any purebred bitch they can find, then dump her at the shelter when she stops being a money-maker? And then dump any pups that don't sell, or get sick, at the same shelter? 
-The way some unethical BYB use high-pressure sales tactics and will sell pups to anyone and everyone with cash, regardless where the dog will end up or be taken care of--and how that is likely to lead to more dogs ending up in shelters? 

Do you _REALLY_ know whom you are buying from on Craigslist? Or are you just going off of a sales pitch?

You once posted that it was your dream to end shelter euthanasia. Why rush to buy a dog from someone who might potentially be part of the reason there's an tremendous over-supply of pet-quality dogs?

If this really is a decent hobby breeder, he or she will likely be glad you are doing some "due diligence" and appreciate being able to show you the quality and care that goes into the choice of dogs to breed and raising the litter. SLOW DOWN. INVESTIGATE. BE SURE.


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## katieliz

noah, what's the real deal? i'm beginning to wonder if your posts are even real. first you can have a dog, then you can't. then you're childhood's gonna be ruined if you can't get the rescue aussie because the dog could be euth'd, now you're gonna buy a dog on craigslist. personally i feel you should not get a dog at all, you should concentrate on how you're going to support yourself when you grow up. all this futzin' back and forth is not mature behavior. work on that. then get a dog when you don't have to rely on your parents. not what you want to hear because this is mature judgement and you're just a kid who has no idea what he wants, only that he WANTS a dog NOW. a dog is a living, breathing creature who needs a mature guardian with a safe and solid home.


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## Gwenhwyfair

IMO It's not going to happen. I've been following some of Noah's threads...

Our young friend is using the internet to daydream much as I did with the newspaper and getting a horse when I was his age. I'd circle the ads and imagine what I would say when I called. I'd picture bringing the horse home (somehow) and how great it would be. I didn't have the internet to share these imaginations like Noah has (and does). I just kept it to myself, but if I had the internet I probably would have posted like he does.

My parents weren't on board at the time and in the end I knew I wasn't getting that horse in the ad but I could dream about it.

Noah strikes me as an articulate (for his age especially) smart boy and some day he'll achieve his dreams. 

For now...he's a minor and doesn't have the means to get a dog unless his parents are 100% on board.


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## crackem

how much should a dog be? How much do you want to pay? Look, I have dogs I like, I know where I can find them. I'm sure my dogs aren't for everybody. Everybody has different definitions of this, a different perspective on that, energy levels, crazy, calm, driven, aggressive etc.

I have my limits. I know what kind of breeder I will support or won't. It's unlikely I'll ever find what I want in the classifieds of my local newspaper, but even if I did, i wouldn't support that kind of breeder.

Some may not be financially able to support my kind of breeder, to each their own.

BUT for your own sake and your future puppy, GO LOOK AT THE DOGS!!!!!!! go see the parents, find the dogs you like. Seriously, don't even look at puppies, go meet lots of dogs, then go meet some more. Find out what kind of dog you can live with, play interact, watch and observe.

Then when you've looked at a few hundred dogs and have at least a decent tangible clue what you'd like to live with for the next decade or longer, when you find a breeder that has dogs you like, get one. If it's too much, save more money. It's cheaper in the long run

But don't choose them based on price or any of that other stuff. Buying the dog YOU want is what matters. If you find dogs you love for 400 bucks, and you don't care about what kind of breeders you support, then by all means get it and then honor your commitment to that dog for the rest of it's life.


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## Gwenhwyfair

crackem, just FYI the OP is under 15 years old and his parents aren't on board.


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## crackem

i rarely direct a post at anyone, it's just a general statement. I don't even know who I'm responding to half the time


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## wolfy dog

I hope you will use the energy you are now spending on dreaming about a dog, for your school work so you can support yourself in the future and have all the dogs you want. It will be worth the wait.


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## Gwenhwyfair

LOL! I understand, just thought you'd like to know as our young friend is very young! 



crackem said:


> i rarely direct a post at anyone, it's just a general statement. I don't even know who I'm responding to half the time


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## Sunflowers

JakodaCD OA said:


> I thought you were going to the shelter yesterday with your parents?
> 
> I'm sorry and I don't want to be harsh or mean, but you and your parents are all over the place One minute you can't have a dog, then the next you can, then you can't, and now your looking at these puppies?


I think we're being had.


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## Okin

Either this is someone that doesn't really care about anything other than getting a dog right now no matter what, or it is a basic internet troll.


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## Carriesue

Okin said:


> Either this is someone that doesn't really care about anything other than getting a dog right now no matter what, or it is a basic internet troll.


Basic? Based on his many, many, many posts and stories that if he were a troll he's a pretty darn elaborate one.  And seriously who has that much time on their hands... Trolling appears to be hard work, lol.


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## mandiah89

Noah, I understand what its like to have "family" dogs/pets and wanting one of your own... I would also look at newspaper ads when I was growing up (didnt really have the internet... we did but I didnt use it and it was nothing like it is nowadays) and would fantasize about getting my own puppy but in reality its just not going to happen... Your parents are obviously not on board and sorry to tell you at your age it will be more of your parents responsibility than yours and it wont actually be "your dog"... 

You are still really young... I have read some of your posts and I understand that you do have other dogs in the house, granted they are not YOUR dogs but you dog have dogs in the house that are "family pets"... Why not spend your energy training/walking/playing/feeding ect those dogs, keep doing your research, spend more time doing school stuff and get good grades to get into university/college to get a good job so you can get the dog you really want...

I didn't get my first dog till I was 21 (even though I looked at ads all the time right up until I got Diesel) and I am glad I waited because my life was a roller coaster and I know for a fact that if I would have impulsively bought my GSD puppy years before (as soon as I moved out of my parents place at 17) that I would not have had that dog for long. You are young, you have a lot of maturing to do, you have a lot of stuff that is uncertain (not saying that anything in life is certain) and until you are out of school and on your own and are "stable" don't get a dog because by the sounds of it it will probably end up in a shelter or re-homed because your parents wont want to take care of it when you are too busy with school and girlfriends (or boyfriends which ever floats your boat) friends, after school activities, a job ect... 

I would suggest going to your local shelter/rescues and ask to volunteer, spend time with dogs that need to have someone spend time with them walking/playing ect. find a good breeder in your area ask to spend some time there learning about the breed (whichever that is aussie or GR or GSD I know you have interest in those), visit local dog clubs as to volunteer there learn different training techniques, get a part time job start walking dogs in the neighborhood, get first hand experience and knowledge so when you are ready in a few years you will have a wealth of knowledge and the ability to actually care for a dog and have that dog be 100% yours.

As for whether its a good price, sure if you want to get something from a BYB not saying this person is but Ive never seen a reputable breeder sell for less than $800 upwards to $2500... Should you ask to go lower? No, I wouldn't, but as I said dont purchase a dog right now, don't rescue either I guarantee the wait to get your own dog WILL BE WORTH IT!


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## Okin

Carriesue said:


> Basic? Based on his many, many, many posts and stories that if he were a troll he's a pretty darn elaborate one.  And seriously who has that much time on their hands... Trolling appears to be hard work, lol.


The ideal goal of an internet troll is to have as many people as possible respond and to believe they are not a troll.


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## JakodaCD OA

I agree with not negotiating..I would "never" even think to negotiate the price of an animal. They aren't tag sale items, atleast they shouldn't be.

As for this being on the up and up, I honestly don't know, Guess I am usually naive, when someone posts something, crazy or not, I guess I just choose to basically believe what they are saying until someone or something proves otherwise..or they mess up themselves..

Troll? maybe,,kid looking for a dog? maybe. The back and forths are wearing thin tho.


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## rgrey

I've negotiated with horses-it seems to be a common practice (at least in my experience). I'm not sure why dogs would be different. That said, I've never negotiated getting a puppy, but I could see doing it with an older, trained dog. I'm not a good barterer/dickerer/whatever its called. I've seen my dad at work though and its pretty fun to watch, especially if its with an other guy like him, even better if its some old fart that really gets into it. 

Noah, I'm starting to feel sorry for your parents. You must be just nagging up a storm and they are giving in to have that occasion 5 minutes of peace. Either that or this is all BS and we are getting strung along.


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## Jaxx's mom

Okin said:


> The ideal goal of an internet troll is to have as many people as possible respond and to believe they are not a troll.


Wait, so now people think Noah's a troll? Why? Because he's going back and forth? I guess it makes sense.... 


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## NancyJ

I don't think we need to worry about the troll issue or not. It really makes no difference.
People can choose to answer or not to answer, simple....
I agree with Diane


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## OrangeJillius

Well if he is a kid, he is probably in school now so he can't respond. Honestly, I have read many of his posts out of curiosity and my own opinion is that he is a very lonely little boy who has parents who probably do not listen to him and here he has found a big ol' room of adults who finally listen and take him somewhat seriously. I kind of get it, when I was 12 I was quite lonely too as my best friend had moved to another school district and my parents were divorcing the same year, so I felt very alone. Noah, I DID get a puppy during that down time in my life (or maybe a year or so later) but I honestly don't recall if it helped, but what I do remember is joining the volleyball team and making friends that I still talk to today. And I know more often than not I left that dog for my parents to look after once I was busy with my life. Even when I finally moved out after college he stayed behind because by then he was older, had already had a stroke, and was used to living in the country and I was moving to a big city. Good luck to you and your family.


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## Liesje

A troll? C'mon guys! He's a KID!!


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## Carriesue

I never thought he was a troll lol, just responding to another post. To me he sounds very much like a young impulsive kid... I really wish he'd listen to our advise especially mine I gave in another thread with the way his parents are I could see what happened to me happening to him easily.


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## GSDLover2000

Wow... I JUST logged on and I am a troll? Do any of you realize I am 13...? I haven't even read the posts, well here goes...


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## GSDLover2000

JakodaCD OA said:


> I thought you were going to the shelter yesterday with your parents?
> 
> I'm sorry and I don't want to be harsh or mean, but you and your parents are all over the place One minute you can't have a dog, then the next you can, then you can't, and now your looking at these puppies?
> 
> What happened with the rescue aussie and gsd's?
> 
> You say you've educated yourself on gsd's/aussies / goldens..IF so, then I would think you'd have educated yourself on what a good breeder is, (should you choose that route).
> 
> I'm not saying the craiglist add you posted is 'not' a good breeder. You 'say' they are hip tested,,have you seen the parents OFA paperwork?
> 
> Like Nancy said above, there is more to getting a good dog than throwing a couple nice looking ones together.
> 
> You seem to be now 'impulse' shopping, you sound to me, like your going to take anything your parents allow you to at the moment.
> 
> I would take Nancy's post above VERY seriously.
> 
> So 'today' your parents are back to letting you have a dog? What will they say tomorrow? I think you need to slow down and instead of what YOU want, take into consideraton what a puppy/dog NEEDS. And why if you buy, going to a reputable breeder is the place to spend your money.


The aussie and german shepherd were adopted, I just found these, and thought it could work. That does not mean we are for sure getting them, and not going to a shelter. Just and idea...


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## GSDLover2000

katieliz said:


> noah, what's the real deal? i'm beginning to wonder if your posts are even real. first you can have a dog, then you can't. then you're childhood's gonna be ruined if you can't get the rescue aussie because the dog could be euth'd, now you're gonna buy a dog on craigslist. personally i feel you should not get a dog at all, you should concentrate on how you're going to support yourself when you grow up. all this futzin' back and forth is not mature behavior. work on that. then get a dog when you don't have to rely on your parents. not what you want to hear because this is mature judgement and you're just a kid who has no idea what he wants, only that he WANTS a dog NOW. a dog is a living, breathing creature who needs a mature guardian with a safe and solid home.


Oh well excuse me. You think I want to be going back and forth?? Hmm, NO. My parents agreed to let me get a dog. MY mother changed her mind. I am trying to convince her so I considered getting an older, shelter dog. Or foster. Right now I am just trying to find things that my mom is fine with. So, if I am "futzing" back and forth, it is only because I am trying to find the best fit. Is that okay with you? I guarantee you my posts are "real". And my childhood will not be ruined if I don't get the Aussie. She was adopted, I did not break down and cry, I was happy she was adopted. You know nothing about me, so do not make those accusations. And just because you think this back and forth is immature, means I am unfit to own a dog?? Are YOUR posts real??


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## GSDLover2000

crackem said:


> how much should a dog be? How much do you want to pay? Look, I have dogs I like, I know where I can find them. I'm sure my dogs aren't for everybody. Everybody has different definitions of this, a different perspective on that, energy levels, crazy, calm, driven, aggressive etc.
> 
> I have my limits. I know what kind of breeder I will support or won't. It's unlikely I'll ever find what I want in the classifieds of my local newspaper, but even if I did, i wouldn't support that kind of breeder.
> 
> Some may not be financially able to support my kind of breeder, to each their own.
> 
> BUT for your own sake and your future puppy, GO LOOK AT THE DOGS!!!!!!! go see the parents, find the dogs you like. Seriously, don't even look at puppies, go meet lots of dogs, then go meet some more. Find out what kind of dog you can live with, play interact, watch and observe.
> 
> Then when you've looked at a few hundred dogs and have at least a decent tangible clue what you'd like to live with for the next decade or longer, when you find a breeder that has dogs you like, get one. If it's too much, save more money. It's cheaper in the long run
> 
> But don't choose them based on price or any of that other stuff. Buying the dog YOU want is what matters. If you find dogs you love for 400 bucks, and you don't care about what kind of breeders you support, then by all means get it and then honor your commitment to that dog for the rest of it's life.


That is the stinking "back and forth" you guys are talking about. I have been going back and forth because I am finding the right dog. I have looked at many dogs, and gone to shelters I have not shared EVERYTHING here, and I still haven't found the perfect dog. So, sorry if I am taking your advice and trying to find the best dog for me! So sorry I have to put you in the inconvenience of me going back and forth.


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## GSDLover2000

Gwenhwyfair said:


> crackem, just FYI the OP is under 15 years old and his parents aren't on board.


I really don't think ANY of you get my situation...


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## GSDLover2000

Sunflowers said:


> I think we're being had.


My mother changed her mind once, then I am trying to find the right dog so I am going back and forth finding the best dog. So sorry! You are not being "had"


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## GSDLover2000

Okin said:


> Either this is someone that doesn't really care about anything other than getting a dog right now no matter what, or it is a basic internet troll.


Really... Really... I don't even know what to say to that... I am SO sorry I am trying to find a good dog for my family, while my mother is changing her mind, and you people are lashing out at me. I am not trolling you!!! I am sorry I am focusing on a dog during the SUMMER when I have nothing to do!! Other than going on here and posting I have nothing to do BUT look for dogs because I love doing it. It is fun to find new dogs, and think about and, like one person said DREAM. I know I can't have them all, or get what I want, but it is fun to imagine, and maybe work it out so it can be reality.


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## GSDLover2000

Carriesue said:


> Basic? Based on his many, many, many posts and stories that if he were a troll he's a pretty darn elaborate one.  And seriously who has that much time on their hands... Trolling appears to be hard work, lol.


Thanks. It is Summer Vacation, I have my computer, and... my thoughts. I do have lots of time...


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## katieliz

yes they are noah, and i apologize, i'm having a difficult day, week, month, year...well, you get the picture. i also totally lived thru having a difficult family situation and the best advice i EVER got was to learn how to make a living so i could take care of myself. that's all i was trying to say, and i AM sorry i came down so hard. but, in my own defense, what i told you is something i have learned from long experience, and is something that i feel is very, very important to young people, because i see alot of them with no ability to support themselves and, let me tell you, they are not very happy or content people. they're the ones who are having to give up their animals and rely on mom and dad when they're young adults, and since mom and dad never quit being mom and dad, no matter how old you are...it's not a pretty picture. more than anything else in the world, you want to be able to support yourself. but ohmygosh, if you really, really want a dog, and want to do something that will make a difference in the life of dog (after dog, after dog), please, PLEASE...foster. the need is critical. hey guy, that's my last 2cents worth. take care of yourself!


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## Okin

GSDLover2000 said:


> Really... Really... I don't even know what to say to that... I am SO sorry I am trying to find a good dog for my family, while my mother is changing her mind, and you people are lashing out at me. I am not trolling you!!! I am sorry I am focusing on a dog during the SUMMER when I have nothing to do!! Other than going on here and posting I have nothing to do BUT look for dogs because I love doing it. It is fun to find new dogs, and think about and, like one person said DREAM. I know I can't have them all, or get what I want, but it is fun to imagine, and maybe work it out so it can be reality.


Well my advice would be to look for a breed other than a GSD. They take a very dedicated dog owner who's entire family is on board 100% of the time, even not during summer time and when you have lots of other stuff to do. I also don't think the GSD is the right fit for people that are not 100% dedicated to the idea of having a GSD with a family that will be 100% behind it 100% of the time.


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## GSDLover2000

Okin said:


> The ideal goal of an internet troll is to have as many people as possible respond and to believe they are not a troll.


So that is why I have almost 300 posts, of honest question, advice seeking, saying that is funny, or a dog is pretty, or what a wonderful picture... Really... I think you are the troll... I love GSD's and every time I search the internet for GSD questions I always came to this forum. So I made an account, and it as been fun, for the most part. I am not a troll... I mean really...


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## martemchik

Don't bother responding to the posts...defending yourself or your decisions on the Internet is futile and a complete waste of time.

The truth is, $400 is not enough for a good dog. Ask for the registration numbers, the OFA numbers, and back up for all the other claims they're making. Most people will write that on their website/ad knowing that many wont ask for proof. And the one that does...oh well...the next customer is 20 minutes behind that one. Get proof, then see what it shows you. At $400 that dog is way below market value. If the parents were OFA'd then it's like $200+ a dog for the x-ray...so why would a breeder just want to make their money back? At $800 a dog they'd be undercutting what the board considers a good breeder, and still making out like bandits. Dogs that are $500 and less are generally not health tested, but they could be AKC registered...it's not very hard to get an AKC registered breeding pair.

Go and see the dogs...pictures are a joke. I remember someone asking about a breeders website and the pictures ended up being generic GSD ones you can find online.


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## GSDLover2000

JakodaCD OA said:


> I agree with not negotiating..I would "never" even think to negotiate the price of an animal. They aren't tag sale items, atleast they shouldn't be.
> 
> As for this being on the up and up, I honestly don't know, Guess I am usually naive, when someone posts something, crazy or not, I guess I just choose to basically believe what they are saying until someone or something proves otherwise..or they mess up themselves..
> 
> Troll? maybe,,kid looking for a dog? maybe. The back and forths are wearing thin tho.


I don't like thinking of dogs as sale types either. I hate when people say I am selling my dog, or hey I just bought a puppy. It is rehoming, and adopted. And as for the back and forth... the only back and forth is the one time my mom changed her mind. Right now I am trying to find animals to show her, and convince her to change her mind. She hasn't agreed yet, that is what I am now doing. I haven't posted everything her, I have visited shelters, set up appoinments with breeders, etc. I am just finding a good dog.


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## Shade

GSDLover2000 said:


> I really don't think ANY of you get my situation...


No, noone is living your life outside of you. There are many of us that have had difficult childhoods and have survived. We've been trying to help you the best we can and you have to take the good with the bad

Noah, I realize you're only 13 but *you* have to realize that you're posting in a forum where 99% is over 18 years old. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and if you don't like it, don't listen to it. Pretty simple 

A harsh lesson you'll learn soon enough in the real world, very few people will bend over backwards to help you regardless of who you are. So while you may want us to be nothing but kind and considerate towards you, it's not going to happen 100% all the time.

It may feel like we're all ganging up on you, but the truth is most of us are just trying to help as best we can.


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## GSDLover2000

rgrey said:


> I've negotiated with horses-it seems to be a common practice (at least in my experience). I'm not sure why dogs would be different. That said, I've never negotiated getting a puppy, but I could see doing it with an older, trained dog. I'm not a good barterer/dickerer/whatever its called. I've seen my dad at work though and its pretty fun to watch, especially if its with an other guy like him, even better if its some old fart that really gets into it.
> 
> Noah, I'm starting to feel sorry for your parents. You must be just nagging up a storm and they are giving in to have that occasion 5 minutes of peace. Either that or this is all BS and we are getting strung along.


Okay... you have no idea what my life is like away from this forum. I am not nagging my parents. They are at work. If I send my father a link to a shelter, and say," Wanna go here this weekend" is that nagging? I do not "nag" Just because I come here for advice constantly about dogs, does not mean I nag. I am bored everyday because it is Summer Vacation, I do not have much to do. So I focus on dogs because I LOVE animals. Once school starts my focus will be on keeping up my grades, and continuing to be a good student. You know nothing of my life, so do not assume you do.


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## GSDLover2000

OrangeJillius said:


> Well if he is a kid, he is probably in school now so he can't respond. Honestly, I have read many of his posts out of curiosity and my own opinion is that he is a very lonely little boy who has parents who probably do not listen to him and here he has found a big ol' room of adults who finally listen and take him somewhat seriously. I kind of get it, when I was 12 I was quite lonely too as my best friend had moved to another school district and my parents were divorcing the same year, so I felt very alone. Noah, I DID get a puppy during that down time in my life (or maybe a year or so later) but I honestly don't recall if it helped, but what I do remember is joining the volleyball team and making friends that I still talk to today. And I know more often than not I left that dog for my parents to look after once I was busy with my life. Even when I finally moved out after college he stayed behind because by then he was older, had already had a stroke, and was used to living in the country and I was moving to a big city. Good luck to you and your family.


I did not come here so adults could listen to me ramble. I came here for sincere advice.


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## GsdLoverr729

Shade said:


> No, noone is living your life outside of you. There are many of us that have had difficult childhoods and have survived. We've been trying to help you the best we can and you have to take the good with the bad
> 
> Noah, I realize you're only 13 but *you* have to realize that you're posting in a forum where 99% is over 18 years old. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and if you don't like it, don't listen to it. Pretty simple
> 
> A harsh lesson you'll learn soon enough in the real world, very few people will bend over backwards to help you regardless of who you are. So while you may want us to be nothing but kind and considerate towards you, it's not going to happen 100% all the time.
> 
> It may feel like we're all ganging up on you, but the truth is most of us are just trying to help as best we can.


 Great post, Shanna.


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## GSDLover2000

Carriesue said:


> I never thought he was a troll lol, just responding to another post. To me he sounds very much like a young impulsive kid... I really wish he'd listen to our advise especially mine I gave in another thread with the way his parents are I could see what happened to me happening to him easily.


I am listening. You guys have said to see the animals, and make sure they are healthy and a good fit. I have not posted everything here. I took everyones advice and I have gone to breeders, met parents, gone to shelters, I am trying to find the right dog! I do not share everything on the internet.


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## marbury

Noah, bring your parents to a shelter and pick out your dog. You shouldn't be posting on here for us to judge, you should be sharing all these links with your family.

At your age it is their call, and only their call. You can show them prospects and lay out your financial plans (I had to make a Powerpoint presentation with a cost analysis/breakdown for my family before I could get my first dog) but ultimately they will say "yay" or "nay".

Stop online shopping and get your parents someplace tangible. You're not ready to spend $1,500 on a well-bred GSD. You're at the stage where you and your family can make a huge difference for a shelter dog. Seeing you interacting with your 'pick' at the shelter can change their mind. It worked for my parents; we went to 'just look' and came home with my first dog. My mom said that she knew as soon as we played together that he was the dog for us; up until this point she was absolutely prohibitive about any animals in our lives.

Let me reiterate: SHOP WITH YOUR PARENTS. Include them in this. Come and ask us here at the forum if you must, but I'd much rather see your next thread in the Picture forum with "Me and My New Dog" as the title and great pictures of your new adopted four-legged buddy. Involve your parents in the process, get them onboard, and safe a life. Choosing a shelter allows you to meet the dog you're interested in, ask the shelter staff about him or her, and explore a foster situation. Starting with a more mature dog is a good idea as well; a good experience is essential for your parents at this stage when they're noncommittal.


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## mandiah89

GSDLover2000 said:


> I did not come here so adults could listen to me ramble.* I came here for sincere advice*.


You came for sincere advice and all the advice has been sincere... dont get a dog right now, keep doing research, wait till you are older and have the ability to care for a dog fully ect... It may not be the advice you are looking to hear but it is it in fact sincere.


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## Capone22

This girl, 18 months, is available at the Devore animal shelter. They put dogs to sleep very quickly there and the shelter is awful. She won't cost very much either and will be spayed. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## GSDLover2000

Shade said:


> No, noone is living your life outside of you. There are many of us that have had difficult childhoods and have survived. We've been trying to help you the best we can and you have to take the good with the bad
> 
> Noah, I realize you're only 13 but *you* have to realize that you're posting in a forum where 99% is over 18 years old. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and if you don't like it, don't listen to it. Pretty simple
> 
> A harsh lesson you'll learn soon enough in the real world, very few people will bend over backwards to help you regardless of who you are. So while you may want us to be nothing but kind and considerate towards you, it's not going to happen 100% all the time.
> 
> It may feel like we're all ganging up on you, but the truth is most of us are just trying to help as best we can.


I understand most of you are trying to help me, I have extracting LOTS of great advice. But most of you also are giving either advice in very bad ways, or just being flat out rude.


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## AkariKuragi

Don't take what people say on here too personally. In the end they are just people who are trying to figure out what you're trying to do. Some people on the Internet are also suspicious about anything out of the ordinary so just relax and explain yourself. 

They have given you some good advice but in the end you are the only one who knows your situation. I would really suggest fostering because then you can have your "own" dog, you can help dogs in need, and there is no long term commitment. And if your family falls in love with the dog you could always adopt it. Rescues will work with you to find you a dog that will work in your situation. GSROC seemed very good with this. I don't know if you've looked into fostering with them but they help with supplies and seemed very friendly. Stella's Hope is another rescue I'd encourage you to check out. Let them know what you're interested in fostering and I'm sure they'll find a dog that'll work for you. It's easier to convince parents to take on a temporary dog that they won't have to be wholly financially responsible for than to get a dog they might have to take on for the rest of their life.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## GSDLover2000

marbury said:


> Noah, bring your parents to a shelter and pick out your dog. You shouldn't be posting on here for us to judge, you should be sharing all these links with your family.
> 
> At your age it is their call, and only their call. You can show them prospects and lay out your financial plans (I had to make a Powerpoint presentation with a cost analysis/breakdown for my family before I could get my first dog) but ultimately they will say "yay" or "nay".
> 
> Stop online shopping and get your parents someplace tangible. You're not ready to spend $1,500 on a well-bred GSD. You're at the stage where you and your family can make a huge difference for a shelter dog. Seeing you interacting with your 'pick' at the shelter can change their mind. It worked for my parents; we went to 'just look' and came home with my first dog. My mom said that she knew as soon as we played together that he was the dog for us; up until this point she was absolutely prohibitive about any animals in our lives.
> 
> Let me reiterate: SHOP WITH YOUR PARENTS. Include them in this. Come and ask us here at the forum if you must, but I'd much rather see your next thread in the Picture forum with "Me and My New Dog" as the title and great pictures of your new adopted four-legged buddy. Involve your parents in the process, get them onboard, and safe a life. Choosing a shelter allows you to meet the dog you're interested in, ask the shelter staff about him or her, and explore a foster situation. Starting with a more mature dog is a good idea as well; a good experience is essential for your parents at this stage when they're noncommittal.


I AM SHOWING MY FAMILY! I am not going to post, "Hey just showed my family this, what d you think." I send it to my dad, we go to the shelters, etc. Just because I come here to show you guys does not mean I did not show my family. I am involving my parents. I just used to enjoy this forum, so I come here to show you guys ASWELL as my father.


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## Shade

GSDLover2000 said:


> I understand most of you are trying to help me, I have extracting LOTS of great advice. But most of you also are giving either advice in very bad ways, or just being flat out rude.


Take the good with the bad, you don't need to explain yourself to every person or take every bit of advice. Heck, if I took every advice that has been given to me over my lifetime I would be a wreck trying to please everyone!

Use what's useful in your situation and ignore what's not.

Look at it this way, even if you don't get a dog this year, next year, or even the year after you have your entire life after 18 to own as many dogs as you want. There's no reason to rush into a big decision right now, as you already said, school will be starting soon and you can focus on that and put the dog on the backburner until a better time if needed.


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## marbury

GSDLover2000 said:


> I AM SHOWING MY FAMILY! I am not going to post, "Hey just showed my family this, what d you think." I send it to my dad, we go to the shelters, etc. Just because I come here to show you guys does not mean I did not show my family. I am involving my parents. I just used to enjoy this forum, so I come here to show you guys ASWELL as my father.



Good! Keep it up, then. But stop looking for puppies, it's probably going to be more than your mom is ready to deal with. While you're off at school somebody has to work with a pup. I'd keep your eyes on an older dog who needs rescue.


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## martemchik

By the way, this is a very legitimate question for a 13 year old to ask. How is he supposed to know what a GSD costs?

And although this isn't always the case, in the world of dogs, price generally does prove quality. Rarely do you see a byb selling for $2000 and actually making sales. And rarely is a truly great breeder that health checks and titles selling for $500. They are smart people, they know their market, and they do tend to get as much as they can. So when I read about a $400 dog...I think byb. At best a hobby breeder. On top of that, check out the kids location...California is not exactly the cheapest state. So I'd expect prices to be greater than the average. And just so you know OP, my dog cost me $500. He is AKC registered, his parents were not OFA, he has been OFA'd and is good/normal, and I have absolutely no health or temperament issues to this point. But I also knew what I was buying and that I was paying way under the market rate.


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## GSDLover2000

Honestly. I am taking your advice. I am. I have done lots of the things some of you have said. I have gone to MANY shelters, visited many dogs, and I have yet to find my perfect dog. I have not shared every dog, or every shelter. That is why I am going back and forth. I am still searching for MY dog. Meaning the dog that will fit me best. I am sorry if the back and forth is "annoying" or "tiring", but if that is what it takes to find me the best dog I can find, then so be it. To those who said I am focusing all my time on a dog. Yes I am. It is Summer Vacation, I am not in school yet, so I have not much to do. So I look for dogs, it is fun for me. I like to imagine having them, and training them. I know it won't happen, but I like it. I share here, to get advice on things, and I show my dad to. My dad is very involved. I do not think many of get my situation. I have not been very organized here, so it is slightly confusing. My mother agreed to getting me a dog, she changed her mind, now I am searching with my dad to find the perfect dog. That's what is going on. I am not a troll, you are not being "had". Just a 13 year old coming to ADULTS for sincere advice. Some of you have given me great advice, and I have taken it. But just because I haven't taken all of your advice, does not mean I am unfit for a dog. And a lot of you who are giving me this advice are saying it in very rude ways, and some of you are just being rude. Like whoever originally said I am a troll... Just think about that a little... I have I believe either almost 300 or 300 posts. All of sincere questions, or comments. I have been here since July. I am pretty sure I am not a troll. NO troll would take it this far, I least I have never met one who does. If I was a troll my first thread would have been,"Does guacamole go good with dog meat?". And it wasn't, so. If you are all adults, then why would you accuse me of being a troll. That seems ridiculous. There is really nothing left to say. I have to go calm down because this nearly gave me an anxiety attack. Well, I just have to say one more thing. I am growing up in a place where I am ALWAYS ganged up on. My siblings dislike me, they rarely speak to me, and whenever I get into a fight with one siblings the others instantly think I am wrong and gang up on me with the other. So, when I come here, to ask for advice because I am trying to find a friend, a companion for my life, and I am ganged up on by many people saying I am unfit for a dog, I am a troll, I am immature... it doesn't feel good, it is what I live with everyday. So, I am sorry if you think all of those things about me, but I am not. I just came off a bad way. I came here for advice from nice people, and 55% of my answers were GREAT advice, and I took some of it. 45% of it was either good advice being said in terrible ways, or just people being rude. I hope you guys can at least understand a little now of why I fight back, and defend myself. I go through this everyday, and I come here to get away from it... So, thank you for brining it to this forum. I am going to go now, so don't bother responding. ..


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## Okin

GSDLover2000 said:


> My parents agreed to let me get a dog. MY mother changed her mind. I am trying to convince her so I considered getting an older, shelter dog. Or foster. Right now I am just trying to find things that my mom is fine with. QUOTE]
> 
> To me this screams GSD is not the right do for this family. Your mom needs to be 100% behind it, enthusiatic about it and ready to take on a huge responsibility. She will have to take care of it while you are in school and that is no easy task for someone that had to be convinced.


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## marbury

You have to develop a tough hide to stick around here. We all go through stuff at home, and more with work and families of our own. We worked hard for our dogs, and some of us continue to struggle to provide for them in these difficult times. Heck, I don't even have $6k sitting around for emergencies.

I just realized that your family already has two dogs (in your signature). Is there a particular reason that you don't 'click' with them? Your search for a dog of your own has broadened to include other breeds; it might be worth seeing what you can do with your family's poodle. I think they're smart little buggers!


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## Jaxx's mom

Okin said:


> GSDLover2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My parents agreed to let me get a dog. MY mother changed her mind. I am trying to convince her so I considered getting an older, shelter dog. Or foster. Right now I am just trying to find things that my mom is fine with. QUOTE]
> 
> To me this screams GSD is not the right do for this family. Your mom needs to be 100% behind it, enthusiatic about it and ready to take on a huge responsibility. She will have to take care of it while you are in school and that is no easy task for someone that had to be convinced.
> 
> 
> 
> although she really needs to be on board about it, if she she does say yes once just to make him happy its her fault, and she's stuck with a dog. if he buys it after she says yes, she will either give him back his money somehow or let him keep the dog. if he buys it, its his and no body should be able to take it away unless its a parent giving you money back, or you really are ignoring the poor animal. at least thats how i made a deal with my mom before she said yes. i told her this and she said okay, and later she said yes. she does'nt like MY dog, but she cant take away MY dog. thats why i made sure that I bought jaxx. at first every time jaxx had an accident she wanted him gone, but now she likes him. but she still threatens sometimes with "if your room is dirty, jaxx is gone" i knew she could never actually get rid of him though cause we made a deal. this most likely wont work with everyone, and im sure people will hate this post, but its just what i did. ***not saying this will work. and im NOT saying you should do this. just something that makes me so mad is when parents say yes then say no after people get the dog just cause it sheds, or whines*** ( dont do this, just saying it to say that if the mom says yes and they go and get the dog and doesnt want it anymore, she souldnt be able to take it away. i know that she is capable of taking it away after that buti think its just lain wrong to do that...)
Click to expand...


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## Jaxx's mom

Jaxx's mom said:


> Okin said:
> 
> 
> 
> although she really needs to be on board about it, if she she does say yes once just to make him happy its her fault, and she's stuck with a dog. if he buys it after she says yes, she will either give him back his money somehow or let him keep the dog. if he buys it, its his and no body should be able to take it away unless its a parent giving you money back, or you really are ignoring the poor animal. at least thats how i made a deal with my mom before she said yes. i told her this and she said okay, and later she said yes. she does'nt like MY dog, but she cant take away MY dog. thats why i made sure that I bought jaxx. at first every time jaxx had an accident she wanted him gone, but now she likes him. but she still threatens sometimes with "if your room is dirty, jaxx is gone" i knew she could never actually get rid of him though cause we made a deal. this most likely wont work with everyone, and im sure people will hate this post, but its just what i did. ***not saying this will work. and im NOT saying you should do this. just something that makes me so mad is when parents say yes then say no after people get the dog just cause it sheds, or whines*** ( dont do this, just saying it to say that if the mom says yes and they go and get the dog and doesnt want it anymore, she souldnt be able to take it away. i know that she is capable of taking it away after that buti think its just lain wrong to do that...)
> 
> 
> 
> actually, forget i said this, i forgot about school!! she will have to take care of it while your at school, and there is no way around that. sorry.
Click to expand...


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## JakodaCD OA

Okay, we've gotten the "troll" thing out of everyone's system I hope? 

I think Noah has gotten more than ALOT of good advice /suggestions/opinions. Only 'he' can pick and choose what he feels will benefit him, so can we just move on?

In the end, it will be up to his parents as to whether he gets a dog or not, none of us.


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## NancyJ

My last advice.........don't try pitting mom against dad by playing one against the other....typically backfires to do that and creates tension.

Figure out why mom changed her mind and figure out what you need to do to satisfy her concerns. The family dynamic, I don't know. Its a tough age regardless. A real tough age to be but fortunately before you know it you will be older and things will look so much different than they do now.


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## holland

...as long as you don't need glasses


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## GSDLover2000

holland said:


> ...as long as you don't need glasses


??? Well, I wear contacts... what do you mean?


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## MadLab

There is a lot of work involved with rearing any dog

Why don't you start training the dogs your family has and prove you have what it takes to have another dog

To me all dogs are special and a mutt or smaller dog can do all the things big dogs do, if you know how to train it and look after it.


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## JackandMattie

Holy cow, kiddo! What a thread. I'm exhausted just reading it.

Chin up. We are just a bunch of strangers, after all. Not everyone in the world speaks kindly, and probably no individual speaks kindly ALL of the time. So, you just can't let people get to you 

The puppies look cute, but there's no way with school coming up so soon. You need a housebroken dog at least, don't you think?


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## Gwenhwyfair

LOL!!!!


Oh my dear young fellow I DO and most of the people here DO get your situation.

I went through it when I wanted a horse more then anything else in the world and I was your age and younger. Every Christmas letter to Santa was begging, I mean begging for a horse. Every picture I drew, every book I got, every story I wrote in school, horse, horse, horse. Parents said no...no...no...no for many years. I was shy, felt like the odd one out in the family, all of that.

I also get that you want validation of your goal of getting a dog and when people don't do that you don't like it.

You have been coming on this site and bouncing around between my parents say yes, they say no, Dad supports mom doesn't, Dad isn't supporting you and so on. You've posted about rescues, breeders and different breeds (GSD, Aussie, Golden) and so on. 

So at the end of the day the reality is you are very young, a minor and it is up to your parents (like Diane said above) just like all the rest of us were when we were your age.

I honestly don't think you're getting a dog anytime soon. You are doing what I was doing at your age, dreaming about it. That's not a bad thing, dreaming is what sets you on the path to achieve later in life.

Best to you.




GSDLover2000 said:


> I really don't think ANY of you get my situation...


----------



## GSDLover2000

I am going to ask something... please let this not cause anything again...
What if I were to get an older dog, say 4-6 years old? Do you guys think that is better for me?? I am all ears!


----------



## JackandMattie

I've already said it, but I'm going to say it again... IF and WHEN your mother gets on board, an older dog would be absolutely perfect for a boy your age. 

Senior rescues can get expensive, so you will need to continue to bank money, but they will cause the least intrusion in your household. I really, Really think you need to consider at least, a midlife dog. And assure your mother that you will vacuum the house daily 


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----------



## JakodaCD OA

I would say yes, if the dog was more 'settled' with life. 

I think finding a dog that is a little older, has some training on them, hasn't got a problem adjusting to a new home, would be a good starter dog for you. Keep in mind, you have two dogs at home, that a new dog is going to have to get along with and vice versa,,plus they are 'small' dogs, so getting a large breed with small dogs may or may not work.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

gosh yes, I agree with Amy, your mother does realize doesn't she, that german shepherds aren't called german shedders for nothing??


----------



## VTGirlT

To answer your original question. It all depends!
I got Zelda from a lady who got her from a byb. I bought her for $500. CRAZY, but not, Zelda needed a good home and someone to love her. And for me, the price was not a matter. I fell in love with this girl and she could have been $2000 and I would have gotten her anyways. 
But... after all the things i've been through with her hips, fear aggression, diarrhea and weight problems, etc. I do plan on getting a puppy from a good breeder that is trusted. Zelda was my mini rescue, and i will do that again, and I have no regrets, Zelda needed me and i needed her really as well. That being said, it will be nice to get a dog that is mentally stable with no hip problems in the future. (I still love you like crazy Zelda!)

To answer your most recent question.
YES, in my opinion, yes please get a dog that is 4-6 years old. I was just thinking the other day if someone asked me if i they should get a puppy or an older dog as a first dog, i would say older dog. With what I see at the shelter i work at, it seems to ring true most of the time. But it is totally up to you. They are both great paths to take, both with different possibilities and consequences. But both with great responsibility, time, energy and love.


----------



## NancyJ

I think the idea of daily vacuuming is a GREAT one. If mom is a clean freak what better way to convince her than a few months of undying attention to detail cleaning up the inevitable hair!


----------



## VickyHilton

Re: the SHEDDING
This is no joke...every shepherd owner I have met vacuums DAILY! There is no exaggeration of this "quality" and should not be under-estimated. If your Mom is a clean freak, this will drive her crazy. You will definitely need to promise her you will vacuum every single day.

Also, my two cents as the Mom who takes care of the puppy while others are at school/work: I need to spend 3-4 hours a day entirely focused on the dog, training and exercising him, in order for him to be happy and well-behaved. And even after all that, he has plenty of energy for running around with my daughter and playing.

Fostering adult dogs until you find the perfect one (that gets along with your family dogs and humans, as well as you) seems like the best advice I've read. This is how my family plans to find our next dog.

Good luck to you and keep standing up for yourself.


----------



## Mrs.K

GSDLover2000 said:


> I don't like thinking of dogs as sale types either. I hate when people say I am selling my dog, or hey I just bought a puppy. It is rehoming, and adopted. And as for the back and forth... the only back and forth is the one time my mom changed her mind. Right now I am trying to find animals to show her, and convince her to change her mind. She hasn't agreed yet, that is what I am now doing. I haven't posted everything her, I have visited shelters, set up appoinments with breeders, etc. I am just finding a good dog.


Nope, it is selling and buying unless you go to a Shelter or a Rescue  

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----------



## Jaxx's mom

jocoyn said:


> I think the idea of daily vacuuming is a GREAT one. If mom is a clean freak what better way to convince her than a few months of undying attention to detail cleaning up the inevitable hair!


:thumb up: this!!!! 
I vacuum around FIVE times a day! Jaxx sheds enough to make another dog... Daily. It's annoying, but at the same time worth it. 


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----------



## GSDLover2000

JackandMattie said:


> . And assure your mother that you will vacuum the house daily
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I have told her I would


----------



## GSDLover2000

Jaxx's mom said:


> :thumb up: this!!!!
> I vacuum around FIVE times a day! Jaxx sheds enough to make another dog... Daily. It's annoying, but at the same time worth it.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


That would be cool if you could make another dog out of his hair...  Hehe... yeah...


----------



## Liesje

GSDLover2000 said:


> I am going to ask something... please let this not cause anything again...
> What if I were to get an older dog, say 4-6 years old? Do you guys think that is better for me?? I am all ears!


My first dog, first GSD was 3.5 years when I got her. Best decision for me. She was house trained, had some basic training and agility training, health and temperament was known. Plenty of life left! We bonded instantly.


----------



## GSDLover2000

Liesje said:


> My first dog, first GSD was 3.5 years when I got her. Best decision for me. She was house trained, had some basic training and agility training, health and temperament was known. Plenty of life left! We bonded instantly.


Yeah that is why I think an older dog is better. I wish she was around 3 just because I know I would only have her for another 5-7 years. But who knows, maybe she lives to be 14 or 15 and I get 9 or 10 years with her. If I get her of course. Here she is btw.


----------



## David Winners

Hey Noah!

My family had a kennels when I was young, and it was my job to do kennel maintenance, feeding, and grooming every day. As I got older, I started handling and training with my mother. By the time I was your age, I was taking care of 12+ dogs every day before and after school, and training with 2 mals. No time for tv.

This work ethic, instilled in me at a young age, has served me well in life. It takes commitment and discipline to be responsible at a young age, but it's a great lesson to learn, and very rewarding. It's also challenging at times, like when my friends wanted me to go play football.

You sound like a very bright and motivated young man. I hope you get the dog you want and stick to your responsibilities to him / her. It could be a great experience.

Old dog, puppy, GSD, Aussie, whatever you get, just be committed as a family and everything will work out. You have to do what's right for whatever dog you get. Kudos to you got doing your research.

Good luck!

David Winners


----------



## Mrs.K

I wouldnt worry about age. This dog looks like a very nice dog. Go get her! She looks like a fun dog and might be the best choice. 5-7 years might be perfect since you will probably go to college some day. 
Think long term and ask yourself where you will be when you are 18 years old? Can you take your dog with you if you go to college? So 5-7 years might be the best fit for now. 



GSDLover2000 said:


> Yeah that is why I think an older dog is better. I wish she was around 3 just because I know I would only have her for another 5-7 years. But who knows, maybe she lives to be 14 or 15 and I get 9 or 10 years with her. If I get her of course. Here she is btw.




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----------



## GSDLover2000

She was rescued. It is not saying what rescue yet, but I am going to contact the shelter, and ask. I am not going to let this girl slip away. I am kind of upset she was rescued. That means a lot of more work to adopt her, and more money. Well, lets hope I can still get her!


----------



## GSDLover2000

For agility competitions, do you need to be purebred? And only german shepherds? Does a belgian malinois count??


----------



## GSDLover2000

There is a 5 year old Akita/German Shepherd mix girl, and a 2 year old belgian malinois mix. Can they do agility competitions? Or only purebreds?


----------



## AkariKuragi

Haha, she looks just like Riley! 

At least with a rescue you know she will be 100% healthy. Out of the shelter you never know what nasty bug could be lurking there. Good luck tracking her down and adopting her! : )


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## AkariKuragi

Also I would not recommend a mal or an Akita mix to a first time owner, both can be a lot of dog and difficult to handle.

For agility your dog needs to be registered with the hosting kennel club usually, like AKC agility requires AKC registration. There is an alternative registry for purebreds without papers and a registry for mixed breeds. They don't allow litters to be registered with AKC but you can compete in events.


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----------



## MadLab

To the op GSD lover, I'm gonna ask you this question again.

*Why don't you start training the dogs your family has and prove you have what it takes to have another dog*?

You have a cocker spaniel cross poodle and a mini poodle already

To me those dogs can do agility or whatever and may be very intelligent dogs. 

Any body interested in dogs should simply use what they have instead of dreaming about breeds. 

Can you post a photo of your dogs. Do they have any skills. What are their temperaments like? What are their names?


----------



## Capone22

GSDLover2000 said:


> There is a 5 year old Akita/German Shepherd mix girl, and a 2 year old belgian malinois mix. Can they do agility competitions? Or only purebreds?


Did u see the 18 month old I posted at the Devore shelter? 


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----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I posted this on another thread:
Noah has shown that he is capable of using the internet and doing searches. I do not think that I would personally feel comfortable facilitating getting him a dog given the information that I have seen posted. Particularly because he is looking at shelter and not rescue - as we all know that a rescue that does all the proper checks would have similar discomfort. 

If people want to be a part of it, that's your own thing, but I only feel good helping dogs when I know where they are going.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

as to whether you can do agility re: registration, you can get the dog PAL reg'd and do AKC if you have no papers. NADAC and other orgs, only have to register the dog (any dog) with 'that' particular organization.

I also agree, if you said you'd vacuum the house daily, I'd start NOW to show your mom YOU WILL DO IT! Actions speak louder than words..I also agree with Madlab, don't care if the dog you have is more bonded to someone else in the household , the young 8 mth old you have? Start training it !!! SHOW your parents you have what it takes to take care of a dog..again Actions speak louder than words, it's one thing to say you'll do it, PROVE to them YOU WILL DO IT


----------



## NancyJ

Yes, prove it and expect to do it for months on end to do that. 13 year olds tend to be consistently inconsistent.

I had to laugh a bittersweet laugh at Gwenhwyfair's post. in response to "you don't understand". That was me, too! My dad would never get me a horse because of cost and impracticality. A few years later I discovered boys and then after that college and jobs and saw his point. Never did get that horse.....but never felt I was cheated. You will get your dog some day. 

My daughter, at 26, is just now at the place where she thinks she *may* get her first dog of her own. She was raised with them, and I promised her a dog when she graduated college but she decided on her own to wait until HER life was not so hectic and could support a dog. It is amazing how a few years on your own sharpen your judgement. Now she is in a PhD program after having worked in the real world for a few years, and has a rental house with a large fenced yard and a good prospect for being in the house for 5 years.........and thinks maybe now would be a great time to rescue an adult.....but she REALLY wanted that dog at 15 when Linus (our first GSD) passed away..........


----------



## JakodaCD OA

Gosh you guys are bringing up memories of one of my childhood dawgs LOL.

I was around 13/14/15 had lost my old border collie, the farmer next door had a gsd that her son bought her as a birthday gift, a gift she did NOT want..She had him locked in one of her empty chicken coops ,,he was around 4-5 mths old, and I WANTED THAT DOG! 

My Dad said no, well I cried for two days straight , begged, pleaded, did whatever I had to do to get THAT DOG..

Well he brought him home, "Lobo" was a crazy fool, he was a purebred but god knows where he came from, he was the first dog we couldn't keep in the house because frankly he was nuts! It was like he was on crack 24/7. Sure I taught him to sit/down/ take treats nicely, walking on a leash was a nightmare, he peed on a friend of mine who didn't appreciate it LOL,,would nail anyone that started fooling with me as if they were attacking me, he was teased constantly by the paper boy, (we had paper boys back then!) Didn't realize it till one day I saw him doing it,,he wanted to eat that kid, the paper route got passed down brother to brother, the last brother never teased him unfortunately Lobo just associated paper boys =teasing, got loose and had the kid pinned on the ground 

Didn't hurt him, scratched him up a bit, but that was the end of Lobo((( 

At that age, I knew "nothing",,I 'thought" I did, but I didn't..I had to have that dog, I got it, and I failed him, by thinking I knew it all.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

I have the same reservations especially since Noah has indicated great reluctance on the part of both his parents, he is a minor. If his parents aren't fully on board it could end up badly for the dog and more stress for the family. I also feel we don't know his parent's side of the story and it just feels wrong to undermine his parents with such limited knowledge as to their situation. We are only getting one side of the story from a young minor. Thank you for this advice.




JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I posted this on another thread:
> Noah has shown that he is capable of using the internet and doing searches. I do not think that I would personally feel comfortable facilitating getting him a dog given the information that I have seen posted. Particularly because he is looking at shelter and not rescue - as we all know that a rescue that does all the proper checks would have similar discomfort.
> 
> If people want to be a part of it, that's your own thing, but I only feel good helping dogs when I know where they are going.


----------



## jafo220

GSDLover2000 said:


> What is a fair amount for purebred german shepherds? Is $400 too much, or too little. And would ti be fair to ask lower?? Thanks!




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Here is deal with BYB's. You really need to see the parents in person. Take in the surroundings, the way the "breeder" acts. Look at the overall general conditions of thier facility, doesn't mattet if it's a garage, barn or shed. Ask alot of questions pertaining to health guarentee's, blood lines, temperments. Ask them if they have these in writing or an agreement if the pup goes south. They should be willing to take the time with you to answer any and all questions you have. If they seem like they are rushing or they start dropping the price to entice you to just buy and move on or tapdance around questions instead of straight answers......leave......without the pup. 


There are decent BYB's out there, but there are some that do the breeding world and the GSD breed a dis-service. If anything, call or email them, see if they will send you the pedigrees and hit the pedigree database and see what lines they originated from. Then make a decission from there to go see the parents and pups.


----------



## GSDLover2000

MadLab said:


> To the op GSD lover, I'm gonna ask you this question again.
> 
> *Why don't you start training the dogs your family has and prove you have what it takes to have another dog*?
> 
> You have a cocker spaniel cross poodle and a mini poodle already
> 
> To me those dogs can do agility or whatever and may be very intelligent dogs.
> 
> Any body interested in dogs should simply use what they have instead of dreaming about breeds.
> 
> Can you post a photo of your dogs. Do they have any skills. What are their temperaments like? What are their names?


Their names are in my signature. The poodle sadly does not have much in her, and she is attached to my brother, as in when he leaves she whimpers and takes a nap until he comes back. The cockapoo is very crazy, and just needs a playmate, he will jump around the poodle, but she just barks at him.


----------



## Jax08

The cockapoo is a just a baby and is perfectly trainable if you choose to. YOU can be his playmate.

Sometimes you have to work with what you have instead of what you want. You can learn to train dogs with the one you currently have in preparation for a GSD or Aussie in the future.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

I agree with Jax,,What happens if you get a crazy gsd? YOU Have to put into the dog what you want out of it..PROVE it with the puppy you have, Dogs do not come trained no matter what age.


----------



## Jax08

JakodaCD OA said:


> I agree with Jax,,What happens if you get a crazy gsd? YOU Have to put into the dog what you want out of it..PROVE it with the puppy you have, Dogs do not come trained no matter what age.



!!!!

Bonds do not always come naturally. They form thru relationships. Training builds a relationship. You can't just get a dog and think because you brought him home that he'll attach to you. Three of our dogs are attached to my husband. I brought two of them home and named them! One of our dogs is attached to me. I brought her home and train with her. I am her person.


----------



## Neko

Jax08 said:


> The cockapoo is a just a baby and is perfectly trainable if you choose to. YOU can be his playmate.
> 
> Sometimes you have to work with what you have instead of what you want. You can learn to train dogs with the one you currently have in preparation for a GSD or Aussie in the future.


Agree, 
we have one of these at the club who is getting first place at obedience trials lol, little bugger is doing great.


----------



## Capone22

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I posted this on another thread:
> Noah has shown that he is capable of using the internet and doing searches. I do not think that I would personally feel comfortable facilitating getting him a dog given the information that I have seen posted. Particularly because he is looking at shelter and not rescue - as we all know that a rescue that does all the proper checks would have similar discomfort.
> 
> If people want to be a part of it, that's your own thing, but I only feel good helping dogs when I know where they are going.


OK. I supposedly live near him and have posted several links, all of which have been ignored. I'm starting to wonder if anything he is saying is true. 

Noah, honestly I was rooting for you at first. But half the stuff your saying is contradictory and not making sense. Even for a 13 year old. 


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----------



## Capone22

Carriesue said:


> Basic? Based on his many, many, many posts and stories that if he were a troll he's a pretty darn elaborate one.  And seriously who has that much time on their hands... Trolling appears to be hard work, lol.


U would be surprised. I am part of mom groups online and have found trolls who have faked pregnancy and the baby for over a year. There are some crazy people out there. 


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----------



## GSDLover2000

Capone22 said:


> U would be surprised. I am part of mom groups online and have found trolls who have faked pregnancy and the baby for over a year. There are some crazy people out there.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Now what is the point of them doing that?? I really don't see what they gain??


----------



## erfunhouse

GSDLover2000 said:


> Now what is the point of them doing that?? I really don't see what they gain??


Attention- exactly like what you're getting here. 


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----------



## GSDLover2000

erfunhouse said:


> Attention- exactly like what you're getting here.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Pardon? I don't see what you mean.


----------



## GSDLover2000

Capone22 said:


> View attachment 103481
> 
> This girl, 18 months, is available at the Devore animal shelter. They put dogs to sleep very quickly there and the shelter is awful. She won't cost very much either and will be spayed.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


When you posted it I looked up her name and ID but nothing came up.


----------



## erfunhouse

GSDLover2000 said:


> Pardon? I don't see what you mean.


You're an obtuse little fellow. No wonder your parents have dug in their heels. Can't blame them. 

On another note- isn't there an age limit on this forum?


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----------



## GSDLover2000

erfunhouse said:


> You're an obtuse little fellow. No wonder your parents have dug in their heels. Can't blame them.
> 
> On another note- isn't there an age limit on this forum?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


What do you mean obtuse? And my parents have dug in their heels?


----------



## Jax08

erfunhouse said:


> .
> 
> On another note- isn't there an age limit on this forum?



How would anyone know even if there was? It's the internet!


----------



## erfunhouse

Jax08 said:


> How would anyone know even if there was? It's the internet!


Some you have to enter a birthday to join. I don't remember if I had to or not. Sure people could lie, but it helps deter trolls. Doesn't entirely keep them out, but helps deter. 


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----------



## GSDLover2000

Jax08 said:


> How would anyone know even if there was? It's the internet!


I don't think there is anyway. A few of the mods know I am 13. True also, it is the internent. But I don't think anyone here is lying, it is a german shepherd forum...


----------



## GSDLover2000

erfunhouse said:


> Some you have to enter a birthday to join. I don't remember if I had to or not. Sure people could lie, but it helps deter trolls. Doesn't entirely keep them out, but helps deter.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I don't think you do. I will log out and "create an account" to check. ONe sec


----------



## Jax08

erfunhouse said:


> Some you have to enter a birthday to join. I don't remember if I had to or not. Sure people could lie, but it helps deter trolls. Doesn't entirely keep them out, but helps deter.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I dont' think he's a troll. Just a kid whose parents obviously aren't paying attention to how he spends his time. He could have taught that puppy he already has several things by now with all the time spent on here. 

Speaking of kids...where is our little Scots boy with the Border Collie? I hope he's doing well. I sent him a training book and every once in a while I hear from him about what he taught Zach but haven't heard from him lately.


----------



## GsdLoverr729

Jax08 said:


> I dont' think he's a troll. Just a kid whose parents obviously aren't paying attention to how he spends his time. He could have taught that puppy he already has several things by now with all the time spent on here.
> 
> *Speaking of kids...where is our little Scots boy with the Border Collie?* I hope he's doing well. I sent him a training book and every once in a while I hear from him about what he taught Zach but haven't heard from him lately.


He is on my Facebook and checks in regularly with me when he has health/training questions. He and Zach are doing very well.


----------



## GSDLover2000

Who are you talking about?


----------



## erfunhouse

GsdLoverr729 said:


> He is on my Facebook and checks in regularly with me when he has health/training questions. He and Zach are doing very well.


How cute!!!! Tell him to come back! 


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----------



## GsdLoverr729

erfunhouse said:


> How cute!!!! Tell him to come back!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 I'll let him know he's missed! And tell him to post his newest pics of Zach on here for everyone to see


----------



## GSDLover2000

Who?


----------



## Jax08

GsdLoverr729 said:


> I'll let him know he's missed! And tell him to post his newest pics of Zach on here for everyone to see


Please do!!!! I loved his stories! So glad he's doing well! He always made me want to reach out and give him a big hug. LOL


----------



## GsdLoverr729

Jax- Sent the message already! I believe he started school again already?

Sorry, Noah. We have another member who is close to you in age, and hasn't posted on here in quite a while. Back to the original subject xD


----------



## GSDLover2000

???


----------



## GSDLover2000

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Sorry, Noah. We have another member who is close to you in age, and hasn't posted on here in quite a while. Back to the original subject xD


Oh okay!  What is his username ?


----------



## GsdLoverr729

I actually don't remember. I know him by his real name at this point xD


----------



## GSDLover2000

He has a border collie??


----------



## GsdLoverr729

Yes. Initially he had wanted a shepherd. When he finally convinced his parents, if I remember correctly, the dog he got was WAY too much for the family to handle? 
So he got a border collie, and is now doing an amazing job training him! Not the breed he'd wanted, but he worked with what he got and now they're the best of buds.


----------



## Jax08

Sunflowers said:


> German Shepherd Dog Forums - Search Results



?? It comes up an error


----------



## Sunflowers

User name Speedy 2662


----------



## GsdLoverr729

Ah, here's his profile:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/members/61919-speedy2662.html

It shows his last activity as being on the 13th, and his Avatar is an updated pic of Zach.


----------



## GSDLover2000

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Yes. Initially he had wanted a shepherd. When he finally convinced his parents, if I remember correctly, the dog he got was WAY too much for the family to handle?
> So he got a border collie, and is now doing an amazing job training him! Not the breed he'd wanted, but he worked with what he got and now they're the best of buds.


I wish I could just get the dog that is right for me. Whether it is a GSD, Aussie, or whatever. I just want a friend, who I can train, take on hikes, and love! How did you go upon finding the border collie. I don't assume he search specifically for a Border Collie. Do you know how he found him??


----------



## Jax08

He bought him from a breeder.


----------



## MilesNY

You have a cockapoo, take him hiking, play and train him. He can be your friend.

I believe they purchased the border collie puppy if I remember correctly. His parents were on board with him getting a dog.


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----------



## GsdLoverr729

MilesNY said:


> You have a cockapoo, take him hiking, play and train him. He can be your friend.
> 
> *I believe they purchased the border collie puppy if I remember correctly. His parents were on board with him getting a dog.*
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Oops, just realized I worded that wrong. His parents were in agreement for the dog all along, one or the other had an issue with it being a shepherd.  Something along those lines.
They ended up with a shepherd named Thor and it didn't work out because of aggression (I think). So they went to a breeder and got Zack*


----------



## Jax08

If I remember correctly, the shepherd had some training issues that were beyond their scope of knowledge.


----------



## GSDLover2000

I really wish I could have my "Zach". I don't care the breed or gender. I just wish I could get a puppy, and raise him, just like Zach. BTW the cockapoo is more my mother's and brother's dog. He already has a set connection with them, and listens to them. Not me. We have had him for almost a year, it is too late for me to become his "master".


----------



## GsdLoverr729

GSDLover2000 said:


> I really wish I could have my "Zach". I don't care the breed or gender. I just wish I could get a puppy, and raise him, just like Zach. BTW the cockapoo is more my mother's and brother's dog. He already has a set connection with them, and listens to them. Not me. We have had him for almost a year,* it is too late for me to become his "master".*


Completely untrue. If you WORK WITH the dog, you can set a bond there and you can get him to listen to you. This is why people are able to bring fully grown dogs, of ALL ages, into their homes.
It doesn't matter if he is more their dog than yours, if you put in the time and effort to work with him he'll respond.


----------



## MilesNY

GSDLover2000 said:


> I really wish I could have my "Zach". I don't care the breed or gender. I just wish I could get a puppy, and raise him, just like Zach. BTW the cockapoo is more my mother's and brother's dog. He already has a set connection with them, and listens to them. Not me. We have had him for almost a year, it is too late for me to become his "master".



Funny because I didn't adopt my border collie until he was over a year old and he is most certainly bonded to me and did agility and will now do dock diving since his limitations prevent competitive agility. 

My new puppy is going to a board and train while I deploy and I know she will bond and work for her new trainer. 

Dogs live in the moment. Start feeding, playing, walking and training the cockapoo and he will bond with you. It's fact.


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## Sunflowers

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Oops, just realized I worded that wrong. His parents were in agreement for the dog all along,


They were definitely not. 
He has had many, many problems with his parents. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/184689-my-mom-keeps-changing-her-mind.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/stories/193443-aggresive-german-shepherd.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/197609-annoying-parents-vol-2-a.html


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## Jaxx's mom

MilesNY said:


> Funny because I didn't adopt my border collie until he was over a year old and he is most certainly bonded to me and did agility and will now do dock diving since his limitations prevent competitive agility.
> 
> My new puppy is going to a board and train while I deploy and I know she will bond and work for her new trainer.
> 
> Dogs live in the moment. Start feeding, playing, walking and training the cockapoo and he will bond with you. It's fact.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I think he means that when they got it 
it bonded with his mom. And I don't think you can re-bond a dog.... 
And he wants a dog that likes him. 
Noah what are you going to do if the dog ends up liking your mom, or brother better? 


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## GsdLoverr729

Good lord I'm getting confused. So mom was in opposition? Ok. Thanks for the correction. Again. Trying to think of this stuff while dealing with Acheron is NOT the wisest idea. Let me stick to what I know for sure x.x 

Got a shepherd named Thor. Due to training or aggression, it didn't work out. So they went to a breeder and got Zack, a border collie. Now he is doing great with Zack and loves the crap out of that dog.


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## MilesNY

Jaxx's mom said:


> I think he means that when they got it
> it bonded with his mom. And I don't think you can re-bond a dog....
> And he wants a dog that likes him.
> Noah what are you going to do if the dog ends up liking your mom, or brother better?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Does sound like anyone is training or paying much attention to the dog, if he wants to start doing agility, etc. I am willing to bet that dog bonds to him. Most cockapoos I have ever trained or interacted with, were very happy social little dogs, not your typical one master only dogs.


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## Jax08

Jaxx's mom said:


> I think he means that when they got it
> it bonded with his mom. *And I don't think you can re-bond a dog.... *


Yes. You can. People do it all the time. It's not even about "re-bonding" the dog. Just him simply working with the puppy will build a relationship with him. If he can't even make an attempt to do that, then I would not allow him to have his own dog either.


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## GSDLover2000

I am almost wanting a border collie now! Haha


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## GsdLoverr729

Jax08 said:


> Yes. You can. People do it all the time. It's not even about "re-bonding" the dog. *Just him simply working with the puppy will build a relationship with him. If he can't even make an attempt to do that, then I would not allow him to have his own dog either*.


 :thumbup:


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## GSDLover2000

MilesNY said:


> Does sound like anyone is training or paying much attention to the dog, if he wants to start doing agility, etc. I am willing to bet that dog bonds to him. Most cockapoos I have ever trained or interacted with, were very happy social little dogs, not your typical one master only dogs.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Bentley is like that. He loves EVERYONE, but likes certain people a bit more. If my brother closed his door, Bentley waits outside his door whimpering. I will sit at the end of the hall and call him, and pat the floor, and he ignores me...


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## MiaMoo

GSDLover2000 said:


> I am almost wanting a border collie now! Haha


You want everything, and you want it _now_.
I wish you'd start reading what people are telling you instead of picking out the parts you like and ignoring everything else.


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## GSDLover2000

Jax08 said:


> Yes. You can. People do it all the time. It's not even about "re-bonding" the dog. Just him simply working with the puppy will build a relationship with him. If he can't even make an attempt to do that, then I would not allow him to have his own dog either.


I do attempt. I really don't want to explain everything, but honestly it is not as easy as you people are saying. I take him on walks, but if Bella (the 12 year old toy poodle) isn't there, or my brother or mom he doesn't even leave the door. I have to bring treats out with me to get him outside. And after I feed him one, he sniffs the sidewalk, maybe bites a leaf, then wants to go inside. But if my brother or mom take him on a walk he loves it. He just bonded with them, and not me. When we first got him, it was the opposite, but eventually he started to like my mom and brother more, and now he has a cement relationship with them.


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## GSDLover2000

MiaMoo said:


> You want everything, and you want it _now_.
> I wish you'd start reading what people are telling you instead of picking out the parts you like and ignoring everything else.


Wow. That is not true! I want a dog, not everything, and sure I would love to have it soon, so what? When someone wants something really bad, they can't wait to get it! Too excited, and anxious. I am not ignoring anyone!!! You guys are saying bond with my dog, and I have!! If I ignore something, maybe I have already done it, or I am doing it behind the scenes. Stop making this things up about me. You have no idea what I do, so why are you acting like you do. I really don't appreciate that.


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## MiaMoo

GSDLover2000 said:


> He just bonded with them, and not me. When we first got him, it was the opposite, but eventually he started to like my mom and brother more, and now he has a cement relationship with them.


What makes you think getting another dog will go differently? It's not something you can just use trial-and-error with.


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## MilesNY

GSDLover2000 said:


> Bentley is like that. He loves EVERYONE, but likes certain people a bit more. If my brother closed his door, Bentley waits outside his door whimpering. I will sit at the end of the hall and call him, and pat the floor, and he ignores me...


That's why you start with feeding him and walking him. Go get some treats, put his leash on take him for a walk. Spend some of your 6000 on signing up for a local obedience class with him. Dogs bond with the person who puts effort in.


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## Jax08

Easy? You think dog training and building a relationship is easy? No...it's not. It takes time and work. It's not as simple as getting a dog and tossing it some treats. You have to make an effort.


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## GSDLover2000

Jax08 said:


> Easy? You think dog training and building a relationship is easy? No...it's not. It takes time and work. It's not as simple as getting a dog and tossing it some treats. You have to make an effort.


Did you not read what I said?? I said ," It is not as easy as you guys are saying it is" Meaning, NO it is not easy. I feed him, I take him out, I taught him how to sit, and I am working on "Come", but he still likes my siblings and mother lots more. IDK why??


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## Jax08

I can read just fine, thank you. Can you? Nobody here said it was easy. We've all said it takes effort. 

I think I"m just done with this thread and all the others. I raised my children and don't feel like redoing the preteen stage.


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## Jaxx's mom

Jax08 said:


> Yes. You can. People do it all the time. It's not even about "re-bonding" the dog. Just him simply working with the puppy will build a relationship with him. If he can't even make an attempt to do that, then I would not allow him to have his own dog either.


You can???!!! 
Even if it is in the same family, everyone pays the same attention to it, except one person. Who steps it up. But every one else does it the same? And if it is already bonded with the mom? 
Learning new things every day from THIS THREAD!!! Hahaha


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## Jaxx's mom

Noah, what are you going to do if this dog (I mean if you get a dog for you) likes your mom, or dad, or brother better. 


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## Jax08

Jaxx's mom said:


> You can???!!!
> Even if it is in the same family, everyone pays the same attention to it, except one person. Who steps it up. But every one else does it the same? And if it is already bonded with the mom?
> Learning new things every day from THIS THREAD!!! Hahaha
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Why yes. You can!  Perhaps you need to go read what I wrote again. I never said to break the bond with the mom nor did I say it needed to be a competition as you are describing.  I said you can create a bond with a dog that is bonded to another. I can do it with dogs bonded to other in my household. Can't you? Hahahahaha


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## Jaxx's mom

Jax08 said:


> Why yes. You can!  Perhaps you need to go read what I wrote again. I never said to break the bond with the mom nor did I say it needed to be a competition as you are describing.  I said you can create a bond with a dog that is bonded to another. I can do it with dogs bonded to other in my household? Can't you? Hahahahaha


Well Jaxx is my first dog and is bonded to me (im sixteen) And he's the only dog. I am the only one who ever plays with him or feeds him, but some times my step dad walks him. I guess that's why we have such a tight bond. 
But I have won over some cats  



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## GSDLover2000

I know it can't be locked, but can we just stop posting here. I know it is my thread, but it is causing too much unwanted drama. If you really don't wan to, of course you don't have to, but I think it would help.  Thanks guys


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## Capone22

GsdLoverr729 said:


> He is on my Facebook and checks in regularly with me when he has health/training questions. He and Zach are doing very well.


I think of him often! Glad they are well. 


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## TrickyShepherd

Jax08 said:


> Yes. You can. People do it all the time. It's not even about "re-bonding" the dog. Just him simply working with the puppy will build a relationship with him. If he can't even make an attempt to do that, then I would not allow him to have his own dog either.


You absolutely can.

We got Duke at 2yrs old. He bonded to me first after awhile of training and relationship building exercises. He wanted nothing to do with my SO. About a 8 months or so later, that started changing. These days, he adores my SO. He's very very attached to both of us.

Not a quick process... and no it's not easy (just like any bond you build between animals or people).... but it definitely can happen!! 

Do some relationship building work, take over the feeding and walking of the dog, be kind and gentle.... it'll build their trust, and they will absolutely take to you! I know plenty of dogs (of many breeds) who adore their family (multiple people).


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## TrickyShepherd

Capone22 said:


> I think of him often! Glad they are well.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Me too.

He was a very nice boy, and that dog is adorable. I'm so happy to hear they are doing well!! The pup's almost a year now I believe. I'm happy for the both of them. 

He needs to come back here...


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## GsdLoverr729

TrickyShepherd said:


> Me too.
> 
> He was a very nice boy, and that dog is adorable. I'm so happy to hear they are doing well!! The pup's almost a year now I believe. I'm happy for the both of them.
> 
> He needs to come back here...


 I sent him a message earlier telling him to come back on here because everyone is thinking of him and Zack.


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## readaboutdogs

Agree dogs will bond with others. I have "inheirited" 2 dogs from my adult children they weren't able to keep because of life issues! They love seeing them, but love their home here with me too! I am currently taking the little pit to petsmart classes , mostly just for the socialization and learn something new! He is 6 or 7 years and was 1 or 2 when my son got him, so he's been passed along a bit! Sweet as can be, knows sit, stay walks the leash pretty good! Give the pup you have a chance! He'll love the extra attention!


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## Jax08

GsdLoverr729 said:


> I sent him a message earlier telling him to come back on here because everyone is thinking of him and Zack.


Scotland is 5 hours ahead of us here.  Maybe we'll see something in the morning.


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## readaboutdogs

Clipper whom I've posted about here was my other inherited dog! I had the pleasure of him living here with me for his last 11 years of life! Right now i only have the little pitbull, been tempted here lately to get another gsd since mine are gone now, but then I think I should wait, be a one dog family a while, i can't hardly remember the last time we only had one pet! I didn't know anything about pitbulls till my son got Hooch, I will still get another gsd when the time seems right, I love the gsd breed, but I have grown to love hooch too!


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## VTGirlT

GSDLover2000 you sound like a really good person. And i find myself wanting to big like a big sister to you, since your the age of my little sister! 
And so i feel the need to post this.
When I was 15-16 years old, I was just like how you are now really. I searched on petfinder for hours a few times a week, looking at dogs and puppies and thinking, i want that one so bad! Oh no, wait, I want THAT one! And i would day-dream of what it would be like with my new puppy/dog. I read a ton of training books and worked on our family dog with the training. I even bought some collars! And would go to stores and figure out what type of dog food i would get, etc. 
I am *SO glad I did not get one till now*, and even being 20 years and where i am, I still *really got a dog way too soon.*
I think if you want to get a dog, maybe you should do one that is the "families" dog, but you are the primary care taker for it. That way you have extra help, if it doesn't work out the way you thought it would.
*I know its VERY hard to wait*, maybe if you start working on training and walking with shelter dogs in the mean time. It benefits them just as much as you! You also can find out what type of breed you *really *want if you really want a purebred of a certain breed. I feel like you are so back and forth on what type of breed from all your posts. So maybe you should instead *focus on what type of personality and temperament you want.* 
Please know that i mean all of this in the nicest way possible!


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## Jaxx's mom

TrickyShepherd said:


> You absolutely can.
> 
> We got Duke at 2yrs old. He bonded to me first after awhile of training and relationship building exercises. He wanted nothing to do with my SO. About a 8 months or so later, that started changing. These days, he adores my SO. He's very very attached to both of us.
> 
> Not a quick process... and no it's not easy (just like any bond you build between animals or people).... but it definitely can happen!!
> 
> Do some relationship building work, take over the feeding and walking of the dog, be kind and gentle.... it'll build their trust, and they will absolutely take to you! I know plenty of dogs (of many breeds) who adore their family (multiple people).


But what I meant when I said re bonding is that re- bonding to where it was HIS dog not the family's. he wants a dog for him, although I think he should maybe wait. I think it would be rude to make the dog that was already the family's like him instead of the mom (he said it already liked her best) I think if he wants a dog for him he should get a new one, not change how the other one thinks. I mean, everything starts small, and I agree with every one here. START WITH BENTLEY! 
That way you will have a bond maybe just not to you though. I mean, maybe he will start to like you the best, maybe he will like you AND your mom, Noah. 
I think you should start SMALL and work your way up to a German shepherd that's YOURS! It way take a year, it may take 23 years. It's worth the wait.
Plus they say gsds aren't for first time owners, so it would get you ready. 



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## GSDLover2000

VTGirlT said:


> GSDLover2000 you sound like a really good person. And i find myself wanting to big like a big sister to you, since your the age of my little sister!
> And so i feel the need to post this.
> When I was 15-16 years old, I was just like how you are now really. I searched on petfinder for hours a few times a week, looking at dogs and puppies and thinking, i want that one so bad! Oh no, wait, I want THAT one! And i would day-dream of what it would be like with my new puppy/dog. I read a ton of training books and worked on our family dog with the training. I even bought some collars! And would go to stores and figure out what type of dog food i would get, etc.
> I am *SO glad I did not get one till now*, and even being 20 years and where i am, I still *really got a dog way too soon.*
> I think if you want to get a dog, maybe you should do one that is the "families" dog, but you are the primary care taker for it. That way you have extra help, if it doesn't work out the way you thought it would.
> *I know its VERY hard to wait*, maybe if you start working on training and walking with shelter dogs in the mean time. It benefits them just as much as you! You also can find out what type of breed you *really *want if you really want a purebred of a certain breed. I feel like you are so back and forth on what type of breed from all your posts. So maybe you should instead *focus on what type of personality and temperament you want.*
> Please know that i mean all of this in the nicest way possible!


Haha, my older sister is 20 too!!! Well, I thank you for the advice.


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## Jaxx's mom

Guys, I know that a dog can bond with other people in the family. 
When I said that I didn't think you could re-bond the dog I meant that I didn't think you could re-bond the dog so that it makes it like YOU the best, AFTER it already liked somebody else. 
Like in his case, could he rebond that dog so that it liked him the best not his mom? He wants a dog for HIM not the family. I think it's a great Idea to start with Bentley and that he should do it, but I still understand if he wants a dog for him. Even though you want a dog for your self, you should still start with Bentley. It will get you more experienced and ready for another dog that will be YOURS!!! 


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## Carriesue

It's definitely possible, when I moved in with my husband he already had two dogs... His Aussie he'd had awhile before we met totally bonded with me after I moved in and became more my dog. Even his female GSD which was defintiely HIS dog followed me around the house during the day when he was working(he works from home).

My husband has done absolutely nothing with my GSD, zilch and Ollie still ADORES him and is sometimes even more affectionate to him though when push comes to shove he is still more loyal to me.


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## TrickyShepherd

Jaxx's mom said:


> But what I meant when I said re bonding is that re- bonding to where it was HIS dog not the family's. he wants a dog for him, although I think he should maybe wait. I think it would be rude to make the dog that was already the family's like him instead of the mom (he said it already liked her best) I think if he wants a dog for him he should get a new one, not change how the other one thinks. I mean, everything starts small, and I agree with every one here. START WITH BENTLEY!
> That way you will have a bond maybe just not to you though. I mean, maybe he will start to like you the best, maybe he will like you AND your mom, Noah.
> I think you should start SMALL and work your way up to a German shepherd that's YOURS! It way take a year, it may take 23 years. It's worth the wait.
> Plus they say gsds aren't for first time owners, so it would get you ready.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'll agree to disagree here.

I grew up with only family dogs. Although I got 'my' first dog at 8, she wasn't just mine... she was my family's. My mother knew darn well an 8 year old wouldn't be able to care for a puppy and raise it all on their own.... she was given to me, but everyone had roles in her life. However, I wanted to get into training and having a dog.... so I did what I could with her because that's what we had. I walked her, I trained her, I helped whelp her puppies, etc. It's not rude because dog's don't see it that way.... why humanize them? They love those that take care of them and love them back (the dogs listed in his search are known to be great family dogs, this especially goes for them)..... if that's 1 or 5 people.. so be it. Dog's don't think that way.... they don't have a "top 5 list". Also, dog's don't just go "oh I like him now.... I'm going to forget about all the others!".... They won't "lose" their bond with his mother or brother. It doesn't work that way in the animal kingdom. My golden loved my mother, father, and siblings just as much as me. We had a great bond but she still bonded to our other family members just fine. In fact, my parents got divorced when my dog was only 4...... my father came back down to FL to visit us about 4 years later. I brought Peaches out to see him, and oh my gosh that dog went crazy! She even peed herself in excitement! That was a person that she didn't even see for 4 or so years. They don't "forget" their bonds. So training another family dog won't harm anyone, and in fact it'll probably do good for both him and the pup.

Beggars can't be choosers. Good life lesson: love what you have because otherwise you'll never fully be happy. I want 5 acres of my own...... I can't do that yet as this isn't the right time to buy and sell at the same time, and there's no good properties for sale here. So, instead, we're installing a new floor in the livingroom, painting all the rooms how we want (no more white!), getting rid of the large patio so I can add more grass (makes the yard a bit bigger for the dogs and myself), and eventually we're adding better cabinetry. We're personalizing the house to where we can enjoy it for the next few years. I guarantee when I get to a nice 5 acre lot.... 10 acres will start looking nice.... and it goes on and on. If you can't have what you want, enjoy what you have! I especially don't understand the now now now idea..... if it can't happen, then WORK for it. You can't always get what you want... especially instantly. That's life all the way until your life ends...

In this situation, the best thing to do is enjoy the dogs that are in the house. One is a pup.... and from what was mentioned about her temperament.... she sounds like a blast to work with, should be a great training partner! Learn the ropes, enjoy what you have... do some bonding games with her. She will love you just for loving her... that's how dogs work. When it's the right time (either when both parents want another dog too.... or when you move out and settle on your own), then go out and get whatever dog you want. For now, you have more than many many other kids that are begging for the same thing. You DO have dogs at home. Many kids I grew up with or know today have NOTHING.... not even a goldfish.. because their parents don't want pets. Enjoy what you have for now, prove to your parents that you can do it. Actions are far better than words. Maybe start working with neighbors dogs or friend's dogs in the meantime as well. That's a great place to start.


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## Jaxx's mom

TrickyShepherd said:


> I'll agree to disagree here.
> 
> I grew up with only family dogs. Although I got 'my' first dog at 8, she wasn't just mine... she was my family's. My mother knew darn well an 8 year old wouldn't be able to care for a puppy and raise it all on their own.... she was given to me, but everyone had roles in her life. However, I wanted to get into training and having a dog.... so I did what I could with her because that's what we had. I walked her, I trained her, I helped whelp her puppies, etc. It's not rude because dog's don't see it that way.... why humanize them? They love those that take care of them and love them back (the dogs listed in his search are known to be great family dogs, this especially goes for them)..... if that's 1 or 5 people.. so be it. Dog's don't think that way.... they don't have a "top 5 list". Also, dog's don't just go "oh I like him now.... I'm going to forget about all the others!".... They won't "lose" their bond with his mother or brother. It doesn't work that way in the animal kingdom. My golden loved my mother, father, and siblings just as much as me. We had a great bond but she still bonded to our other family members just fine. In fact, my parents got divorced when my dog was only 4...... my father came back down to FL to visit us about 4 years later. I brought Peaches out to see him, and oh my gosh that dog went crazy! She even peed herself in excitement! That was a person that she didn't even see for 4 or so years. They don't "forget" their bonds. So training another family dog won't harm anyone, and in fact it'll probably do good for both him and the pup.
> 
> Beggars can't be choosers. Good life lesson: love what you have because otherwise you'll never fully be happy. I want 5 acres of my own...... I can't do that yet as this isn't the right time to buy and sell at the same time, and there's no good properties for sale here. So, instead, we're installing a new floor in the livingroom, painting all the rooms how we want (no more white!), getting rid of the large patio so I can add more grass (makes the yard a bit bigger for the dogs and myself), and eventually we're adding better cabinetry. We're personalizing the house to where we can enjoy it for the next few years. I guarantee when I get to a nice 5 acre lot.... 10 acres will start looking nice.... and it goes on and on. If you can't have what you want, enjoy what you have! I especially don't understand the now now now idea..... if it can't happen, then WORK for it. You can't always get what you want... especially instantly. That's life all the way until your life ends...
> 
> In this situation, the best thing to do is enjoy the dogs that are in the house. One is a pup.... and from what was mentioned about her temperament.... she sounds like a blast to work with, should be a great training partner! Learn the ropes, enjoy what you have... do some bonding games with her. She will love you just for loving her... that's how dogs work. When it's the right time (either when both parents want another dog too.... or when you move out and settle on your own), then go out and get whatever dog you want. For now, you have more than many many other kids that are begging for the same thing. You DO have dogs at home. Many kids I grew up with or know today have NOTHING.... not even a goldfish.. because their parents don't want pets. Enjoy what you have for now, prove to your parents that you can do it. Actions are far better than words. Maybe start working with neighbors dogs or friend's dogs in the meantime as well. That's a great place to start.


Oh no I didn't mean to make the dog like him better then the rest. Wait I'm confused.. Maybe I read this wrong.. oh well I'll answer anyways. 
I meant that I didn't think he could make him like him better than the rest, he wants a dog for him. Not the family. HIM. I know it really can be done, but he wants a dog NOW. And I think that it would take a long time for that dog to bond with him. 
So when I said re bonding and that I thought it would be rude I meant rude to who the dog was already bonded with. 
I wouldn't really want somebody coming in and re bonding with Jaxx if he was already mine. 
Sorry if you or I misunderstood. 
I DO think you should wait Noah. Start with Bentley. Start slow. Work up to a gsd. 


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## TrickyShepherd

Jaxx's mom said:


> I meant that I didn't think he could make him like him better than the rest, he wants a dog for him. Not the family. HIM. I know it really can be done, but he wants a dog NOW. And I think that it would take a long time for that dog to bond with him.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Well... then like all youngsters, there's a lot of life lessons to learn. I grew up with 3 other siblings.... nothing was mine mine mine. So for me, this concept wasn't a reality until I was out on my own. Even then, once I met my SO years later and we moved in together.... everything became "ours" anyways. Our dogs are just that.... ours. They love us both. 
Unfortunately, with school, projects, homework, after school activities, dating, driving, college... etc..... I don't think that 'ideal' is even possible. The dog WILL have to be cared by others during the process whether he likes it or not. The dog WILL be around others, and naturally bonds will form. The dog won't be kept in a dark room with only him around 24/7. He lives with a family. I think reality needs to come into play here.

In my house I do all the training, almost all the care, and I'm around them much more often (my SOs job is very demanding).... but they still love my SO just for being there and petting/playing with them. 

If that's what is sought after.... and NOTHING else will do.... then most definitely wait until you're out on your own! You'll be very disappointed otherwise.


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## Jaxx's mom

TrickyShepherd said:


> Well... then like all youngsters, there's a lot of life lessons to learn. I grew up with 3 other siblings.... >>>nothing was mine mine mine<<< So for me, this concept wasn't a reality until I was out on my own. Even then, once I met my SO years later and we moved in together.... everything became "ours" anyways. Our dogs are just that.... ours. They love us both.
> Unfortunately, with school, projects, homework, after school activities, dating, driving, college... etc..... I don't think that 'ideal' is even possible. The dog WILL have to be cared by others during the process whether he likes it or not. The dog WILL be around others, and naturally bonds will form. The dog won't be kept in a dark room with only him around 24/7. He lives with a family. I think reality needs to come into play here.
> 
> In my house I do all the training, almost all the care, and I'm around them much more often (my SOs job is very demanding).... but they still love my SO just for being there and petting/playing with them.
> 
> If that's what is sought after.... and NOTHING else will do.... then most definitely wait until you're out on your own! >>>You'll be very disappointed otherwise<<<.


Yeah, that's true. I had to share EVERYTHING with my sisters when they still lived in the same house. Dogs, cats, even barbies. Everything. 
Unless you are on your own, it's likely you won't have a dog that is only yours. It may like you the best but it will still like others. And it may not even like you the best. 
Right now I think you really need a dog and you have Bentley to make that dog. He and you could be best friends with a little training. Even though he likes other people too, doesn't mean you can't have that bond together. 


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## readaboutdogs

I think everyone understands that he wants his own dog, that heart dog described here so often, the constant companion, that soulmate the unconditional love a dog can give. Who wouldn't want that? But there have been many points given, the dog would be brought into multi person home with other people that would be contributing to its care(school time, etc), the chance the dog would "bond" with some else, etc. but is the timing right? Is this the breed he really wants or can handle, or for that matter, can the other people in the household? I think most advice has been more in the direction of slow down, wait till he can be the one to provide a stable home and care on his own. Cody my heart dog loved everyone in the family, but I used to tell my kids, I don't mean to sound rude or prideful, he loves you but he loves me best! You just never know, they are free spirits too! I think the mom would like the idea of him taking an interest in the pup, extra training, walks, who wouldn't like that!


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## KZoppa

GSDLover2000 said:


> I really wish I could have my "Zach". I don't care the breed or gender. I just wish I could get a puppy, and raise him, just like Zach. BTW the cockapoo is more my mother's and brother's dog. He already has a set connection with them, and listens to them. Not me. We have had him for almost a year, it is too late for me to become his "master".


 
Noah, I have to completely disagree with the its too late sentiment. It's not. My first PB shepherd was Zena. A 4-5 year old untrained tank with fur and a tail that could be used as a wrecking ball. She'd been used as a breeder. Nothing else. She had ZERO training when I brought her home. NONE!!!! She wouldn't listen to anyone... but wouldn't you know it... within a day she learned sit. a week, she'd mastered a down. I worked with her every single day. Just spending time with her. Talking her on walks or in the early days, attempted draggings with me flapping in the wind behind her. 

Zena is still a tank with fur though these days, she's less coordinated. She still does well on leash, sits when she can and downs pretty quickly. She's no longer the alert protective clown I brought home but an old dog with crumpled ears from multiple ear infections, constant allergies, and horrible hips. She's a total sweetheart with those she knows and likes. She still despises my brother in law with a "let me sink my teeth into your leg" kind of passion (which I'm okay with). She's still the big boss lady in the house and unfortunately, because she belongs to my father in law now, her behavior has been allowed to slip. She doesn't disobey me when I'm back home for a visit but I don't tolerate her nonsense. 

The point is, I took a totally untrained hulk of a dog and trained her. I bonded with her. She was my girl. You can ALWAYS bond with a dog. Always. train the puppy you have in the house. Work with that one, spend time with that one. A bond will form over time.


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## GSDLover2000

My mom would love to be the one who he "loves more". He is like her 5th child, literally! She does baby voices, and treats him like a king. Plus, I just want a bigger dog, who I can do agility with, and I have just always wanted a bigger dog. And hey, maybe I get a medium sized dog, to get me ready for a GSD when I have my own family. Say after I graduate college, I could adopt a GSD, and maybe now I adopt a medium sized dog, like an Aussie, or Border Collie. I think it would be a good thing.


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## selzer

There was a great line in The Breakfast Club, something to the effect, of course we aren't satisfied with our home life, if we were, we would live with our parents forever. 

13, sorry I thought I read 12 a week or so ago. Well 13 is that much closer to the day you can move your butt out and rent your own place, and support yourself, and buy whatever dog you want, raise it the way you want to raise it, and no one has anything to say about it. 

Until then, Mom and Dad are not on board. Their house has two dogs already, and three's a crowd. 

Ya know what? Some dogs are really not good in a pack. Yes, they are pack animals, they readily adopt their human family and that is ALL the individuals they really want in their lives. A canine buddy generally goes ok if there are not extenuating circumstances. 

But three dogs, all pets, parents not on board, one seems to be a bit insecure about one of the family members. It could create issues to have three dogs in the house. 

If the GSD and the poodle get into it, who's fault will it be? If the cockapoo and the GSD get into it, who's fault is it. How awful will it be for a 12/13 year old kid when the parent that isn't on board with being responsible for another dog, hauls that dog off to the pound after it nips or bites or all out attacks the smaller dog? Oh, it doesn't have to be a GSD, but it sounds like you want a herding dog. Hounds seem to pack up better than herding dogs which makes sense, though I really don't know anything about aussies. 

You have a puppy in your home that has ALL the requirments of other puppies regardless to the breed. Shame on those people who continue to point out dogs to this kid. We encourage adults, former and current GSD owners not to try and do two puppies at once. They have a PUPPY! Mom and Dad are NOT on board! Any dog put into this situation is got ALL the odds stacked against it. Encourage the kid to go to a reputable breeder, but none will sell him a puppy. Encourage the kid to go to a rescue, but none are going to give him a dog. Encourage the kid to go to a shelter. I don't know. 

I agree with everyone who said you have two dogs in your family right now. Three's a crowd. Three's a pack. People really, really need to be on board to manage a pack of dogs.


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## KZoppa

GSDLover2000 said:


> My mom would love to be the one who he "loves more". He is like her 5th child, literally! She does baby voices, and treats him like a king. Plus, I just want a bigger dog, who I can do agility with, and I have just always wanted a bigger dog. And hey, maybe I get a medium sized dog, to get me ready for a GSD when I have my own family. Say after I graduate college, I could adopt a GSD, and maybe now I adopt a medium sized dog, like an Aussie, or Border Collie. I think it would be a good thing.


Aussies and BCs still require a lot and I mean A LOT of work. Their energy can be hectic and crazy for those without the time to get them out for training and exercise. Herding breeds all have pretty similar traits when it comes to energy. They need an outlet that's appropriate. DO YOUR RESEARCH. Learn everything you possibly can while you're waiting and then when you think you've learned all you can, go learn some more. 

My uncle has a border collie. She is constantly on the go. the only way she can settle down, even at 6 years old, is 4 hours minimum of long distance fetch, training, more fetch and if she's lucky, a 4 mile jog. rinse and repeat the next day. and without adequate exercise and training, you can easily end up with a neurotic mess. 

Don't settle on a breed right now. Heck, you could even look into golden retrievers and likely find a good agility prospect. You can do agility with small dogs... hint hint hint.

And if you're dead serious about getting your own dog, make sure BOTH of your parents are 110% on board. No hesitation on their part. None. Leave no room for error. because without their approval, its not gonna happen. They pay the bills and put food on the table, they rule as king and queen. 3 dogs is a challenge.


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## Jaxx's mom

GSDLover2000 said:


> My mom would love to be the one who he "loves more". He is like her 5th child, literally! She does baby voices, and treats him like a king. Plus, I just want a bigger dog, who I can do agility with, and I have just always wanted a bigger dog. And hey, maybe I get a medium sized dog, to get me ready for a GSD when I have my own family. Say after I graduate college, I could adopt a GSD, and maybe now I adopt a medium sized dog, like an Aussie, or Border Collie. I think it would be a good thing.


I really think you should wait to get another dog and work on Bentley. 
Unless your parents are on board about it, that's a different story. If your not ready for a gsd, your not ready for an Aussie, that's for sure. I know you can do it. I know that you can take a dog and love it, give it the care it needs. But it doesn't mean that it will work with just any dog, and not every dog will like you the best. If you want to practice before you get a gsd, try with Bentley.  it will defiantly save money, heart break, and even the full responsibility of having a dog. 
You could ask your parents if Bentley could even sleep in your room  
I now nothing about his breed of dogs, or if they can do agility. If they can't actually do it and enter in competitions you could always go to courses with him for fun. 
He could be "your" first dog. Just cause he's family's doesn't mean you cant have a bond with him. 
Please at least give him a try. Who knows? Maybe you will like this type of dog better then german shepherds. 
( Aussies and borders are high energy, much higher than gsds. And if you got a border collie, you would need to do brain games with her, they are VERY smart) 
If your parents say yes, then that's great. 
If your parents say no, you have Bentley. 
 good luck with whatever choice you choose! 



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## selzer

You can compete with a small dog in agility as easily if not more easily than with a large dog. I know people can DO agility with Leonbergers, but the courses and the equipment is designed for smaller dogs. There is so much to learn and to do, go and get that puppy out there and into classes. Everything you COULD do with a big dog, you CAN do with the puppy you have. 

10 years from now when you have a good job, are finished with college, and have a place of your own, there will still be big dogs in rescues, shelters and there will be breeders who will want to sell you a dog as well.


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## Jaxx's mom

selzer said:


> 10 years from now when you have a good job, are finished with college, and have a place of your own, there will still be big dogs in rescues, shelters and there will be breeders who will want to sell you a dog as well.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup;



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## Carriesue

Small dogs can definitely do sports! I'm considering either a Cardigan corgi or Papillon as my next sport dog to do agility or flyball or herding(with the corgi). I also have a poodle mix(granted he's medium sized) but he is super smart and super agile, I think he would love agility too and dock diving.

I would highly highly recommend against border collies and Aussies... Working/herding breeds require A LOT of work and commitment. Border collies especially are not a first time dog, I would even go as far as saying they are not suited for pet homes unless the owner is extremely dog savvy and extremely active and/or participates in a sport. Are you going to have hours of time to devote to a dog after school? What about home work or friends? I don't work or go to school and my GSD exhausts me some days! They need something to do and a lot of mental and physical exercise. If you must get a dog I'd say get a bit less dog... There's plenty of bigger dogs that don't require so much work.


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## KZoppa

Carriesue said:


> Small dogs can definitely do sports! I'm considering either a Cardigan corgi or Papillon as my next sport dog to do agility or flyball or herding(with the corgi). I also have a poodle mix(granted he's medium sized) but he is super smart and super agile, I think he would love agility too and dock diving.
> 
> I would highly highly recommend against border collies and Aussies... Working/herding breeds require A LOT of work and commitment. Border collies especially are not a first time dog, I would even go as far as saying they are not suited for pet homes unless the owner is extremely dog savvy and extremely active and/or participates in a sport. Are you going to have hours of time to devote to a dog after school? What about home work or friends? I don't work or go to school and my GSD exhausts me some days! They need something to do and a lot of mental and physical exercise. If you must get a dog I'd say get a bit less dog... There's plenty of bigger dogs that don't require so much work.


 
couldn't agree more... Noah, please re-read what I said about my uncle's BC. Riley was a BC/GSD mix and he was.... off. He had issues from a young age and they only got worse as he got older. He leaned more toward the GSD side of his genetics but he had the neurotic tendencies of a BC. Really not for someone without a lot of time to dedicate to them. The only reason my uncle does is because he's retired, disabled and does nothing but take the dogs everywhere and tinker around with his truck or motorhome depending on plans for the weekend. I've NEVER once seen him without Gracie with him the last several years. I don't know if I would ever do a BC or another BC mix. That's just... they're too energetic to be a pet. They absolutely need more than the average owner, even a kid, can provide.


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## GSDLover2000

Carriesue said:


> Small dogs can definitely do sports! I'm considering either a Cardigan corgi or Papillon as my next sport dog to do agility or flyball or herding(with the corgi). I also have a poodle mix(granted he's medium sized) but he is super smart and super agile, I think he would love agility too and dock diving.
> 
> I would highly highly recommend against border collies and Aussies... Working/herding breeds require A LOT of work and commitment. Border collies especially are not a first time dog, I would even go as far as saying they are not suited for pet homes unless the owner is extremely dog savvy and extremely active and/or participates in a sport. Are you going to have hours of time to devote to a dog after school? What about home work or friends? I don't work or go to school and my GSD exhausts me some days! They need something to do and a lot of mental and physical exercise. If you must get a dog I'd say get a bit less dog... There's plenty of bigger dogs that don't require so much work.


Is there a dog you recommend? One that is known well enough to have rescues, or in shelters, etc.


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## KZoppa

GSDLover2000 said:


> Is there a dog you recommend? One that is known well enough to have rescues, or in shelters, etc.


Golden retrievers can be found in rescue. most have solid temperaments and can easily do agility or be a good companion.


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## GSDLover2000

KZoppa said:


> Golden retrievers can be found in rescue. most have solid temperaments and can easily do agility or be a good companion.


My mom is getting closer and closer to agreeing, but she dislikes golden's because of shedding. That is the dog I originally wanted (I still LOVED GSD's at the), and I made a presentation, wrote down all of the good things, and di tons of research. My mom said no, for one reason only... hair. Thats it. Just the hair, and it is a never-going-to-happen no.


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## erfunhouse

She realizes GSDs shed just as much if not more right?


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## GSDLover2000

erfunhouse said:


> She realizes GSDs shed just as much if not more right?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes, and that is why isn't a fan of them either, but my father had them, so she is OK with them. And btw, you guys are saying BCs are not first time dogs, and not for a kid. What about that guy around my age with Zack?? He is a kid, and it is his first dog (besides the GSD who didn't work out).


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## Jax08

First...ONE person said that about BC's, not "you guys"

Second...Speedy is a special kid who put a ton of work into his dog. You should worry about yourself and not someone on the other side of the world that you don't know anything about.


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## KZoppa

GSDLover2000 said:


> My mom is getting closer and closer to agreeing, but she dislikes golden's because of shedding. That is the dog I originally wanted (I still LOVED GSD's at the), and I made a presentation, wrote down all of the good things, and di tons of research. My mom said no, for one reason only... hair. Thats it. Just the hair, and it is a never-going-to-happen no.


 
Okay.... goldens shed a lot less dramatically than GSDs do. Seriously, my dogs, I can vacuum their crates out daily and within 5-10 minutes, it looks like a fur bomb exploded. Goldens have longer coats. the fur tends to get caught up in itself and holds on better so wont drop in waves to the floor. this is also why brushing daily is beneficial as well as a quality diet. 





GSDLover2000 said:


> Yes, and that is why isn't a fan of them either, but my father had them, so she is OK with them. And btw, you guys are saying BCs are not first time dogs, and not for a kid. What about that guy around my age with Zack?? He is a kid, and it is his first dog (besides the GSD who didn't work out).


 
If I remember correctly, that kid is overseas, his parents were totally on board with it and kids overseas tend to not only be a bit more responsible but they have shorter school days and tend to graduate earlier from school. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, by all means. They also tend to have a tad bit more space than us crowded americans do to exercise and work our dogs. There are less restrictions on where you can take your dog and leash laws are dependent on where you live or take your dog while here leash laws are pretty well mandatory in every county.


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## KZoppa

This list is weird by my standards but okay. 


Dogs that shed very little, Dogs that don't Shed, Dogs that do not shed


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## GSDLover2000

Jax08 said:


> First...ONE person said that about BC's, not "you guys"
> 
> Second...Speedy is a special kid who put a ton of work into his dog. You should worry about yourself and not someone on the other side of the world that you don't know anything about.


Wow... What is your problem?? I said "you guys" because I just remember someone saying it, didn't know who or what amount. What makes "Speedy" special??? How am I not worrying about myself by mentioning a kid around my age with a Border collie?? What the heck did I do wrong?!??!? Yah I don't know anything about him, except he is around my age with a border collie which is all I said.. honestly I did nothing wrong this time. Are you just trying to pick a fight?


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## GSDLover2000

KZoppa said:


> Okay.... goldens shed a lot less dramatically than GSDs do. Seriously, my dogs, I can vacuum their crates out daily and within 5-10 minutes, it looks like a fur bomb exploded. Goldens have longer coats. the fur tends to get caught up in itself and holds on better so wont drop in waves to the floor. this is also why brushing daily is beneficial as well as a quality diet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly, that kid is overseas, his parents were totally on board with it and kids overseas tend to not only be a bit more responsible but they have shorter school days and tend to graduate earlier from school. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, by all means. They also tend to have a tad bit more space than us crowded americans do to exercise and work our dogs. There are less restrictions on where you can take your dog and leash laws are dependent on where you live or take your dog while here leash laws are pretty well mandatory in every county.


Kids overseas are more.. responsible...? How does location affect that...? I am actually asking, not being sarcastic.


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## GsdLoverr729

GSDLover2000 said:


> Wow... What is your problem?? I said "you guys" because I just remember someone saying it, didn't know who or what amount. What makes "Speedy" special??? How am I not worrying about myself by mentioning a kid around my age with a Border collie?? What the heck did I do wrong?!??!? Yah I don't know anything about him, except he is around my age with a border collie which is all I said.. honestly I did nothing wrong this time. Are you just trying to pick a fight?


Noah, I would suggest relaxing. It's just the internet.

There are many differences between you and Speedy. One being he is overseas, so as mentioned his school days/hours are different. His family didn't have any dogs and Zack is still the only one they have. Whereas your family already has two dogs in the home (one being a puppy). 
Speedy doesn't spend much time on the internet anymore (like he did before he got Zack). He generally spends his time working with his dog. He comes online every so often on Facebook, usually to post pics of Zack or to ask me a question or two about training, health, games, etc.


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## Jax08

No, Noah. I"m not picking a fight. I'm stating a fact and saying to you exactly what I would say to my own kids...which is don't worry about someone else or what they have or why they have it. The only thing you have in common with him is your age.

The bottom line is your parents said No. You need to accept that fact. I'm not going to humor you and give you sympathy. I just won't do it.


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## GSDLover2000

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Noah, I would suggest relaxing. It's just the internet.
> 
> There are many differences between you and Speedy. One being he is overseas, so as mentioned his school days/hours are different. His family didn't have any dogs and Zack is still the only one they have. Whereas your family already has two dogs in the home (one being a puppy).
> Speedy doesn't spend much time on the internet anymore (like he did before he got Zack). He generally spends his time working with his dog. He comes online every so often on Facebook, usually to post pics of Zack or to ask me a question or two about training, health, games, etc.


I am talking about him being "special" and kids overseas being more responsible?? It just doesn't make sense to me.


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## GSDLover2000

Jax08 said:


> No, Noah. I"m not picking a fight. I'm stating a fact and saying to you exactly what I would say to my own kids...which is don't worry about someone else or what they have or why they have it. The only thing you have in common with him is your age.
> 
> The bottom line is your parents said No. You need to accept that fact. I'm not going to humor you and give you sympathy. I just won't do it.


Mother changed her mind. Dad is totally on board, along with my whole family. My mom is warming back up to the idea... I didn't ask for sympathy... My gosh you people are probably the most rude, misunderstanding people. Most of you anyway.


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## Jax08

GSDLover2000 said:


> My gosh you people are probably the most rude, misunderstanding people. Most of you anyway.


You are not exactly displaying good manners.


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## KZoppa

GSDLover2000 said:


> Kids overseas are more.. responsible...? How does location affect that...? I am actually asking, not being sarcastic.


difference in lifestyles, different cultures. The differences in education and time spent getting that education. The list is practically endless. More is expected from them and as a result, they tend to be more responsible earlier.


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## GSDLover2000

Jax08 said:


> You are not exactly displaying good manners.


Good manners... You are saying that to me?? All you have been is rude. I haven't gotten one ounce of advice from you. Check my earliest posts.. I am polite (don't mean to "toot my own home"), and respectful. But you guys are just so darn rude, and frustrating it is hard to be nice. I really can not belive adults are acting this way. And when I say that you guys are being rude, you get all mad and say you are helping me, I am immature, have an attitude... I am getting tired of it! I hate to be acting this way to adults, but you guys are being so darn mean and hurtful. Some of you I admit, are giving great advice. But others, especially you, are just plain rude. You are being sarcastic, rude, and just ridiculous!


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## KZoppa

GSDLover2000 said:


> Good manners... You are saying that to me?? All you have been is rude. I haven't gotten one ounce of advice from you. Check my earliest posts.. I am polite (don't mean to "toot my own home"), and respectful. But you guys are just so darn rude, and frustrating it is hard to be nice. I really can not belive adults are acting this way. And when I say that you guys are being rude, you get all mad and say you are helping me, I am immature, have an attitude... I am getting tired of it! I hate to be acting this way to adults, but you guys are being so darn mean and hurtful. Some of you I admit, are giving great advice. But others, especially you, are just plain rude. You are being sarcastic, rude, and just ridiculous!


 
Noah, she's being a mother who expects better from others. That's all. Speaking from a mother's point of view and knowing how much this could be driving your parents absolutely crazy, I can understand why she isn't exactly thrilled with any of this. Kids push their limits as far as they can and honestly, that's what the majority of us are seeing. We all do it and we all did it as kids. Your mom has been back and forth on the whole dog for you thing and after being told no the other day, you kept going instead of being willing to drop the subject for a little while and revisit it at a later date. It becomes very frustrating to see a kid do that, especially one who comes to others for advice. 

You've gotten some real good advice thus far and some advice that is still good despite it not being what you want to get. Take it all in, really logically think about it. Try to put yourself in your parents position and see things from their point of view. 

She isn't telling you anything I'm sure you don't already know. Also, bear in mind online, you cant read peoples emotions so what you see as being rude, others are viewing as honesty. Michelle is really trying to help you by telling you something, no matter how much you may not want to read it. You came to this board for advice and I think it's safe to assume, some education as well. Just because it doesn't totally pertain to dogs or what you want to hear/read/see, doesn't mean it's not a quality education. You learn from EVERYTHING.


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## sparra

I just don't think this is going anywhere.
If I were Noah's mother I would be horrified if I found this thread.
People are starting to get annoyed with a 13 year old kid cause it all just keeps going around in circles. Time to stop IMO.


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## GSDLover2000

Hoping a mod will see this. Can this thread be closed?? I know I made it, but it is causing some problems. Thanks


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## Jaxx's mom

Even of this thread doesn't get closed I think we should definitely stop posting here. It is causing problems, and it can't hurt if we stop. You don't know if you hurt his feelings, and Noah, you don't know if you hurt there's. I really do think its time this thread is stopped. And I think a lot of other people think that too. 


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## sparra

Noah, I am in Australia and it's 3.12 in the arvo......I am thinking you need a good sleep.....time for bed


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## GSDLover2000

sparra said:


> Noah, I am in Australia and it's 3.12 in the arvo......I am thinking you need a good sleep.....time for bed


It is 10:30


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## Liesje

Noah if you want a BC or Aussie I think that's fine, even for a kid, even for a first time dog owner. I got a working line GSD as my first dog and how many people would say that's a bad idea? I put twelve titles on her in 3 years and she was my FIRST dog.

The thing is though, as I read through your threads, you seem to change every hour what kind of dog you want. These breeds are VERY different in size, temperament, grooming, how they are trained, etc. It doesn't really worry me that a young person wants a high drive kind of dog, more that when you change your mind so often (or would settle for any of them), it doesn't seem like you've really thought it through and your desire for *any* dog is clouding your judgment.

Like I told you before I NEVER had a dog growing up, EVER. This was non-negotiable with my parents. I waited until I was almost 23 to get my first dog, and I survived! Honestly I don't know how I would have ever given a dog enough time while I was in high school and college since I was a full time student and also worked several jobs from age 13 through college in order to support myself.

If you are set on changing your parents' minds, go about this a different way. PROVE that you are capable of being responsible for such a high drive, high energy dog by 1) making an effort with the dogs you already have and 2) finding a job to raise money for the dog (even if you can't pay for everything, it at least shows you are responsible enough to help contribute).


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## lhczth

Lies, very good suggestions.


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## MiaMoo

lhczth said:


> Lies, very good suggestions.


I agree. Just because you don't like the suggestions doesn't make them bad. Everyone here has given very helpful advice, you just don't want to listen to it.

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## GSDLover2000

MiaMoo said:


> I agree. Just because you don't like the suggestions doesn't make them bad. Everyone here has given very helpful advice, you just don't want to listen to it.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


That isn't true. I thought the criticism was over. I have listened to it for gosh sakes. I have, and I have said I have many many times. Just stop saying I am not listening to it... I am! You wouldn't even know if I wasn't because you do not know what I do behind this forum. And when did I say that the suggestions are bad...? Can a mod please close this thread? It is causing too much trouble. I would appreciate it.


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## marbury

I have been keeping up with this and I don't believe I've seen it suggested yet, but if it has been forgive my repetition.

I am absolutely certain that there has to be at least one Kennel Club in your area. There is probably a breed-specific club, given the high concentration of breeders in CA. I'd really recommend finding out who you can contact and attending a local meeting. It's super fun once you introduce yourself and you'll meet 'crazy dog people' like yourself to make friends with. There may be members there who have breeds you're interested in and they all could get you into contact with members who do rescue, good breeders, or perhaps may have their own dogs they'd like to retire to a good home... maybe your home!

The bonus is you can bring your family along to involve them if you'd like. My mom said she realized how serious I was about training my first dog when I asked if she could drive me every weekend to our local training group. I met great folks, they were so nice (I was 13!), and I learned a ton. I trained my dog to a pretty high level and realized more of what I was looking for in my next dog.

I'd highly recommend finding your local kennel club and at least exchanging some e-mails. I can almost guarantee that you'll be snapped up by someone or other to show in Junior Handling, lol!!


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## Roemly's Mama

Why not follow the suggestions of some to work with the puppy and video it so you can get some tips and such? Then you can learn about training and bond with your puppy and it might work out. What do you think?


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## Konotashi

GSDLover2000 said:


> That isn't true. I thought the criticism was over. I have listened to it for gosh sakes. I have, and I have said I have many many times. Just stop saying I am not listening to it... I am! You wouldn't even know if I wasn't because you do not know what I do behind this forum. And when did I say that the suggestions are bad...?


IMHO, you take the criticism given to you and use it to tell everyone what you think we want to hear in your next thread, but your story is constantly changing.

Unless your parents (both of them, not just your mom) are absolutely, 100% on board and don't change their minds about it, don't get a dog. And that should be starting point #1.


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## selzer

Even if your parents WERE on board, ARE on board, the people here SHOULD be telling you NOT to try to bring in ANOTHER dog when you have a PUPPY currently at your house, and already have TWO dogs. 

This is not rude. It isn't. It is just not what you want to hear. 

If I started a thread, saying I have a 12 year old dog and an 8 month old puppy and I am thinking of bringing in another dog, is this a good idea, people will say NO. Puppies are a LOT of work, and if the puppy you have isn't responding well to you, than the answer is NOT another puppy, it is to get your puppy out there and WORK and PLAY with it. That puppy should be 2 to 4 years old before an average adult dog owner should consider bringing in another dog.


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## Konotashi

I never looked at the signature.

Having a senior, especially a toy breed, and a puppy (of any breed or size) is a recipe for disaster if you want to bring in another dog.

I personally wouldn't bring in another puppy until my youngest was at LEAST 2 years old and was at a stage where I could focus at least 80% of my energy and sanity on a landshark.

Having the senior makes it a no-go. But that's my opinion.


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