# What Type of Aggression is Least Acceptable?



## _Crystal_ (Jun 28, 2011)

What type of aggression do find least acceptable, out of all types of aggression?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I voted human aggression..All other types can be managed, and while dog to human aggression 'can' be managed, it's a huge liability that can be a royal pain in the butt to live with


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## Gracie's My Girl (May 27, 2011)

Hands down for me...people aggression.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Assuming there's no threat, definitely human aggression.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I like breeds that can have and should have appropriate human aggression. If they're my dogs.  I don't particularly want to meet someone else's dog like that  but like a dog that is ready to go Mendlebaum on someone - not willy nilly, but appropriately.

Well, I lie, I don't mind a dog that is a little off as long as I can control and protect them, but do not think it is a good thing, I just think that for the people who don't mind and can keep them safe, it's nice for the few dogs we can help to do so. For a dog that you can't make any mistakes with, well, no. 

I do not like dogs that cannot be around or live with other dogs. I do not like dogs that have dog aggression written into their standard or are well known for that.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I like breeds that can have and should have appropriate human aggression. If they're my dogs.  I don't particularly want to meet someone else's dog like that  but like a dog that is ready to go Mendlebaum on someone - not willy nilly, but appropriately.
> 
> Well, I lie, I don't mind a dog that is a little off as long as I can control and protect them, but do not think it is a good thing, I just think that for the people who don't mind and can keep them safe, it's nice for the few dogs we can help to do so. For a dog that you can't make any mistakes with, well, no.
> 
> I do not like dogs that cannot be around or live with other dogs. I do not like dogs that have dog aggression written into their standard or are well known for that.


YES! Izzy Mandelbaum! 80 years old but strong as an ox.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

The poll doesn't allow me to vote. It must realize that I would make more than one choice.
Human [aggressive to humans]
Fear-based [only aggressive when fearful]
The first is unacceptable, the second is uncontrollable.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Lucy Dog said:


> YES! Izzy Mandelbaum! 80 years old but strong as an ox.


:rofl: 

#1 dad!

When my dog Kramer (black and tan in avatar) got old, that's what I would call him - and would let him have "Go Time" that I stopped when he was younger because he really enjoyed it. He was a little off. We were a good team.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> :rofl:
> 
> #1 dad!
> 
> When my dog Kramer (black and tan in avatar) got old, that's what I would call him - and would let him have "Go Time" that I stopped when he was younger because he really enjoyed it. He was a little off. We were a good team.


But did he ever pull out his back?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

PaddyD said:


> The poll doesn't allow me to vote. It must realize that I would make more than one choice.
> Human [aggressive to humans]
> Fear-based [only aggressive when fearful]
> The first is unacceptable, the second is uncontrollable.


This would be my vote as well if I could vote twice.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Lucy Dog said:


> But did he ever pull out his back?


No lie, yes he did! He did not realize that a 15 year old dog should not jump from the top step of the deck! 

Mandelbaum! Mandelbaum! Mandelbaum!


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> The poll doesn't allow me to vote. It must realize that I would make more than one choice.
> Human [aggressive to humans]
> Fear-based [only aggressive when fearful]
> The first is unacceptable, the second is uncontrollable.


But the shepherd dog MUST be aggressive to humans when warrented. Otherwise, he has no value to us as a protection/police/schutzhund dog. 

ALL living beings experience fear. It is not a fault for ANY living being to demonstrate aggression against a real threat. As such, it is NOT a fault nor is it undesirable for a shepherd dog to bring aggression against a threat. Rather, this is exactly what they should do. In fact, our shepherd dogs are supposed to possess "courage". It is impossible to demonstrate "courage" without fear. The very definition of "courage" demands that there be fear. 
What is unacceptable are shepherd dogs who act with irrational and unfounded aggression. Just as a soldier receives a medal for his courage while under enemy-fire, his same action would be repulsive when carried out against peaceable peoples.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I don't believe for a moment that GSD's "courage" is borne of actual fear.
They were bred to be suspicious, not fearful. Fearful is (to me) an inability to make a good decision due to irrationality/fear. 
GSDs need to distinguish between a credible threat and a common occurring such as a visitor. 
Why you see so many dogs become "aggressive" when regular folks stop by for a visit, including relatives, is fearfulness. Not ever a good trait.
If your dog wants to bite a girl scout for ringing the doorbell, more power to you and him/her, but mine will recognize a safe situation vs. an armed robber breaking in at 2am and not bite a girl scout.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> I don't believe for a moment that GSD's "courage" is borne of actual fear.
> They were bred to be suspicious, not fearful. Fearful is (to me) an inability to make a good decision due to irrationality/fear.
> GSDs need to distinguish between a credible threat and a common occurring such as a visitor.
> Why you see so many dogs become "aggressive" when regular folks stop by for a visit, including relatives, is fearfulness. Not ever a good trait.
> If your dog wants to bite a girl scout for ringing the doorbell, more power to you and him/her, but mine will recognize a safe situation vs. an armed robber breaking in at 2am and not bite a girl scout.


Did you read my post?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Zahnburg said:


> But the shepherd dog MUST be aggressive to humans when warrented. Otherwise, he has no value to us as a protection/police/schutzhund dog.
> 
> ALL living beings experience fear. It is not a fault for ANY living being to demonstrate aggression against a real threat. As such, it is NOT a fault nor is it undesirable for a shepherd dog to bring aggression against a threat. Rather, this is exactly what they should do. In fact, our shepherd dogs are supposed to possess "courage". It is impossible to demonstrate "courage" without fear. The very definition of "courage" demands that there be fear.
> What is unacceptable are shepherd dogs who act with irrational and unfounded aggression. Just as a soldier receives a medal for his courage while under enemy-fire, his same action would be repulsive when carried out against peaceable peoples.


BRAVO! Best post ever!!!


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## marti (Dec 15, 2011)

The smart well-bred, stable nerved GSDs will pick up on how I feel toward the person.

He liked everyone I likeds

But a couple of times I was so surprised to see a man on my property I didn't say a word to them.
He backed them off to the sidewalk turned around and came back to me never saying a word, never acting aggressive.

Of course, if you're confronted with a big black male German Working Line GSD slowly and continuously walking very close toward you, you would leave and he knew he had that power.
GOOD DOG!


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

Any type of human aggression is bad. If your dog bites another person they could be put down. Your dog bites another dog it's not a death sentence. 

A dog that is human aggressive is a huge liability. It's not safe for the dog or people around it.

Being protective and being human aggressive are very different things.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Ya.. except that every single dog has aggression. Every living being has aggression. Show one species that doesn't have it. 

It's the combination of weak nerves, a bad handler, very poor training and very very bad circumstances that lead to these disasters where a dog mauls a person, child or teenager. 

Stuff like that can be prevented if people would actually know how to read their dogs, would take the pre-cautions and maybe... just maybe... rather put a dog like to sleep instead of trying and trying and trying and following dangerous advise on the internet to keep socializing poor fluffy because they "all can be safed" and SHOULD be safed because you are a bad person for even thinking about putting a dog to sleep. 

Sorry, but I'm extremely aggrevated by the "please, keep trying, the poor poor baby deserves it." people.


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

My dad was a little old school. He always said that a dog that bites people is loose in the head.

I do believe that it is possible that a dog can just be nuts in the head. I don't believe that's always the case, but I do believe it is possible.

Dogs that bite people and have the potential to seriously hurt, damage, or even kill a human is the worst kind of dogs....IMO.

Just my 2 cents


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I probably should have added to my post,,YES to appropriate human aggression

Just downright , I'm gonna go after any human for no reason aggression


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Same here. I am not opposed to 'appropriate' human aggression, but the poll does not differentiate. I am opposed to what I thought the poll meant, which is full time human aggression. The poll also states fear based aggression (only when fearful) I (may have mis-)interpreted that as being a fear biter. Fear-based aggression is sometimes warranted.... as in, survival mode. So all my responses are modified to: 'It depends'.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

Zahnburg said:


> But the shepherd dog MUST be aggressive to humans when warrented. Otherwise, he has no value to us as a protection/police/schutzhund dog.
> 
> ALL living beings experience fear. It is not a fault for ANY living being to demonstrate aggression against a real threat. As such, it is NOT a fault nor is it undesirable for a shepherd dog to bring aggression against a threat. Rather, this is exactly what they should do. In fact, our shepherd dogs are supposed to possess "courage". It is impossible to demonstrate "courage" without fear. The very definition of "courage" demands that there be fear.
> What is unacceptable are shepherd dogs who act with irrational and unfounded aggression. Just as a soldier receives a medal for his courage while under enemy-fire, his same action would be repulsive when carried out against peaceable peoples.


:thumbup:


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Aggression that comes from a weakness in nerves. Doesn't matter what it is towards.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I didn't vote. My reason is that most human aggression is unacceptable however any inappropriate contact with humans is not acceptable either. For instance, my female is not aggressive and she does not bite, but she is very prone to scaring people because she will appear to be trying to bite when she is, in reality, mouthing. It is her way to communicate that she is insecure with strangers and their actions. There is no warning so I have to be diligent about managing her behavior. 

I believe that they are within their rights to be protective of me at home and even in public if a true threat is present. I believe that their instincts can, do and will prevail when the time is right. I have no doubt in my mind that my female would instinctively act upon a true threat. If someone were to attempt a home invasion here, they would not be successful. If someone tried to rob me while walking them at the park, they would likely not be successful. 

On the other hand I also feel that dog aggression is unacceptable. My male is usually aggressive towards all unknown dogs-kind of like kick butt first and ask questions later. This has several layers of factors in play from being an adolescent when I brought him home, not knowing how to properly introduce dogs and my own fear of my boy hurting other people's pets. We are getting better as time progresses. But in my book, it is not his decision to make. 

In both cases, as in every instance of my life with my dogs I do try my best to be always aware of our surroundings and work hard towards managing them, their behavior and their attitude in general to help them be successful, well rounded happy and healthy dogs, mentally and physically.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

I think there are degrees in fear aggression, too. So far, Rey has been somewhat fear aggressive with growling or barking at new things, but she's quite okay once she adjusts to new things. Would I walk her out in a crowded place with new dogs, new people and new noises? No. But I think it may well be manageable. She got over her fear of the car real fast and loves to ride along and sniff the air (and all the new things) now.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

lhczth said:


> Aggression that comes from a weakness in nerves. Doesn't matter what it is towards.


Yes, this. Which would include biting the girl scouts...

But then again I'm seeing more and more posts about dogs who cannot differentiate, apparently.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> It's the combination of weak nerves, a bad handler, very poor training and very very bad circumstances that lead to these disasters where a dog mauls a person, child or teenager.


I agree 100% with this. 

And I also acknowledge there are some dogs that cannot be safely handled regardless of what is done.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> Same here. I am not opposed to 'appropriate' human aggression, but the poll does not differentiate. I am opposed to what I thought the poll meant, which is full time human aggression. The poll also states fear based aggression (only when fearful) I (may have mis-)interpreted that as being a fear biter. Fear-based aggression is sometimes warranted.... as in, survival mode. So all my responses are modified to: 'It depends'.


  I do not believe you misinterpreted the meaning of the origanal poster; and as such your response was entirely appropriate. 

 However, I thought it to be important to define the term "aggression" in a larger context that many readers (and indeed posters) may not be familier with.


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## _Crystal_ (Jun 28, 2011)

Zahnburg said:


> But the shepherd dog MUST be aggressive to humans when warrented. Otherwise, he has no value to us as a protection/police/schutzhund dog.
> 
> ALL living beings experience fear. It is not a fault for ANY living being to demonstrate aggression against a real threat. As such, it is NOT a fault nor is it undesirable for a shepherd dog to bring aggression against a threat. Rather, this is exactly what they should do. In fact, our shepherd dogs are supposed to possess "courage". It is impossible to demonstrate "courage" without fear. The very definition of "courage" demands that there be fear.
> What is unacceptable are shepherd dogs who act with irrational and unfounded aggression. Just as a soldier receives a medal for his courage while under enemy-fire, his same action would be repulsive when carried out against peaceable peoples.


By human aggression, I didn't mean "shutzhnd/ppd" aggression, I meant uncontrollable, UNtrained, full blown aggression. As in the dog thinks "OMG a person, I'mma bite her for no reason."


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