# What The!!!!



## Joker (Sep 15, 2006)

I don't come here all that much and I guess I must not be very observant but what the **** is there a white dog doing on the header of this forum.
I surely hope I'm not the first to question this.


----------



## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

opcorn::toasting::lurking:


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

OMG!! There is...what has this board come to(hard to answer that one)? 
A year ago a change took place with ownership, ads can be anything now, even puppy mills can advertise(in disguise).
UKC is allowed to show what a total GSD can be...vs AKC and their standards.
Wonder which one Max would approve of?


----------



## Heagler870 (Jun 27, 2009)

Why does it matter?!!!!!?


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

They do come in white. Are you objecting or just being funny?


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

PupperLove said:


> opcorn::toasting::lurking:


:spittingcoffee:I thought the same thing.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

OMG! A German Shepherd on the GSD forum header!? NOOOOO!


----------



## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Whiteshepherds said:


> :spittingcoffee:I thought the same thing.


The smiley's party stopped for a second. LOL


----------



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

OMG there is a white one, a black and tan one, and a Sable in the header! It's almost a GSD rainbow


----------



## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Really, the way I take it is no matter what color of GSD you have, you should feel welcome to come here, and that's how it should be...


----------



## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

I owned a white GSD and I think even though he was a "WHITE" GSD, he was still a GSD none the less. I'm a tad confused why that would upset you. I am new to this board though. So I'm a bit ignorant on how things used to be....


----------



## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> I owned a white GSD and I think even though he was a "WHITE" GSD, he was still a GSD none the less. I'm a tad confused why that would upset you. I am new to this board though. So I'm a bit ignorant on how things used to be....


Right!

You know what really annoys me is when people say Yellow labs are hyper, black labs are calm, chocolate labs are aggressive, etc! Color really means nothing in a breed....

White GSDs are still very much GSDs and this is a great place to come share/learn info.


----------



## Joker (Sep 15, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> OMG!! There is...what has this board come to(hard to answer that one)?
> A year ago a change took place with ownership, ads can be anything now, even puppy mills can advertise(in disguise).
> UKC is allowed to show what a total GSD can be...vs AKC and their standards.
> Wonder which one Max would approve of?


I guess by the replies what Max thoughts were don't seem to matter here dang


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

:wild:I demand a floppy eared GSD on the header! :wild:


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Joker said:


> I guess by the replies what Max thoughts were don't seem to matter here dang


What that "a good dog cannot be a bad color"?


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Holy cow ... a GSD message board with GSD pictures in the heading ... how special.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

All I see are beautiful German Shepherds =)


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Joker said:


> I guess by the replies what Max thoughts were don't seem to matter here dang


I don't think Max gave too much thought about what color dogs might show up on the header of a website. I know he never mentioned it in his book.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Emoore said:


> :wild:I demand a floppy eared GSD on the header! :wild:


I second this! 

I also want to see a black GSD up there!


----------



## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

Emoore said:


> :wild:I demand a floppy eared GSD on the header! :wild:


 
Here here!!!


----------



## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I am taking this to the Civil Liberties Union (aka Dr. Yung) ... where is the BLUE and LIVER German shepherd?


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Doc said:


> I am taking this to the Civil Liberties Union (aka Dr. Yung) ... where is the BLUE and LIVER German shepherd?


Where are the pandas?!


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> Where are the pandas?!


Shhhh, they are hiding out in the bamboo forest...OH! You mean GSDs...


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

arycrest said:


> Holy cow ... a GSD message board with GSD pictures in the heading ... how special.


Too funny! :wild: :toasting: :wild:

I love that there's a mix of GSD's in the header! Rather be inclusive then exclusive.....


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> I second this!
> 
> I also want to see a black GSD up there!


Ya, what's up with that? Can't call it a rainbow coalition without a black one. Equal rights!!! (and lefts)


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> Ya, what's up with that? Can't call it a rainbow coalition without a black one. Equal rights!!! (and lefts)


:thumbup: Here, Here!


----------



## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Where's the long stock coat??


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> I guess by the replies what Max thoughts were don't seem to matter here dang


Sounds to me like you've not read all of Max's thoughts in his books on the German Shepherd Dog. While Max felt that most white Shepherds lacked the spirit the normal-colored dogs had, he certainly felt that no good dog was a bad color, so if the dog in question was a great working dog but happened to be white, he didn't have a problem with that. Let's also bear in mind that his foundation dog, Horand von Grafrath had a white grandparent (Greif Sparwasser).

Let's also bear in mind that whites were not excluded from the standard until the 1930's, more than three decades after the breed was founded, and not based on their lack of ability but on a faulty understanding of dog genetics that assumed that white colored dogs would dilute colors if bred to regular colored dogs. (Of course, we now know that the white is a masking gene, not the same as albinism in dogs.)

But hey, why bother with facts.


----------



## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

:thumbup: @ AbbyK9


----------



## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

AbbyK9 said:


> Sounds to me like you've not read all of Max's thoughts in his books on the German Shepherd Dog. While Max felt that most white Shepherds lacked the spirit the normal-colored dogs had, he certainly felt that no good dog was a bad color, so if the dog in question was a great working dog but happened to be white, he didn't have a problem with that. Let's also bear in mind that his foundation dog, Horand von Grafrath had a white grandparent (Greif Sparwasser).
> 
> Let's also bear in mind that whites were not excluded from the standard until the 1930's, more than three decades after the breed was founded, and not based on their lack of ability but on a faulty understanding of dog genetics that assumed that white colored dogs would dilute colors if bred to regular colored dogs. (Of course, we now know that the white is a masking gene, not the same as albinism in dogs.)
> 
> But hey, why bother with facts.





bunchoberrys said:


> :thumbup: @ AbbyK9


Ditto! :toasting:


----------



## BestK9GSD (Oct 26, 2010)

Joker said:


> I don't come here all that much and I guess I must not be very observant but what the **** is there a white dog doing on the header of this forum.
> I surely hope I'm not the first to question this.


 
Did you get your answer?


----------



## vukc (Dec 22, 2009)

Hi all, 

Trying to play devils advocate or "smart *ss" as some call it. 
Technically since 2002 White Shepherds dogs are considered to be a different - separate breed from German Shepherd.
This breed is recognized on a provisional basis by the FCI (The Fédération Cynologique Internationale) as Berger Blanc Suisse - White Swiss Shepherd Dog (standard number 347)
http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/List-provisional breeds-02022010.pdf

For some reason USA and Canada are not members of FCI (I wonder why, oh maybe I know.... they are always trying to improve breeds, make them bigger, stronger - best example see American Show Line GSD). 

It is also to note that FCI includes *86 members* and contract partners (one member per country). FCI - Fédération Cynologique Internationale

Again, theoretically White Shepherd dogs are not part of German Shepherds hence since this forum is called GERMAN Shepherds...you connect the dots  

Back from being a smart *ss,
Personally I think it does not matter what color is the dog as long as you love and respect him.


----------



## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

The white shepherd is not technically a separate breed....some just have decided to stick the name swiss in front of it because white GSD's have been barred from competition based on their faulty color. The line of thinking is different name different rules, but despite the name it is still a german shepherd and more than welcome on a GSD forum IMO


----------



## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

joker...you're joking, right?


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

AbbyK9 said:


> ...a faulty understanding of dog genetics that assumed that white colored dogs would dilute colors if bred to regular colored dogs.


I feel the same way about washing white towels with colored towels 
In the land of boxers, whites weren't accepted because some tend to be deaf and white wasn't a color that easily camouflaged well in the dark. 
Until recently, breeders would cull them. In the last one or two decades "white friendly" breeders would give them away for free. A lot of die hard boxer breeders won't even admit that they've produced any white puppies. I found it highly hypocritical that a breeder would turn their nose up at a buyer because they had a preference in color (brindle/fawn/flashy/plain) yet they'd turn around and kill a puppy for being born the wrong color.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Same with Collie's. My understanding was the whites couldn't even be registered and were thought to be genetically flawed.


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

vukc said:


> Again, theoretically White Shepherd dogs are not part of German Shepherds hence since this forum is called GERMAN Shepherds...you connect the dots


Oh dang and my dogs love celebrating October Fest...I don't know how I'm going to break it to them that they're not really German. Harley won't be happy about this...he does love a good party and his beer. :crazy:


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

How exactly do you take a German dog breed and make it a Swiss dog breed? 

That is weirder than anything yet I have seen in the dog fancy.


----------



## JonnyRico (Sep 21, 2010)

*"How exactly do you take a German dog breed and make it a Swiss dog breed?"* 

Take a pregnant GSD, export her to Sweden, have the litter over there and.... Voila! Swedish Shepherds!!!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Hmmm. Does that mean that I have some Hungarian and Japaneese Shepherds in my dogs' background?


----------



## JonnyRico (Sep 21, 2010)

selzer said:


> Hmmm. Does that mean that I have some Hungarian and Japaneese Shepherds in my dogs' background?


You just might


----------



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I thought Swiss Shepherds were the ones that weren't protective oke::rofl:


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> *"How exactly do you take a German dog breed and make it a Swiss dog breed?"*
> 
> Take a pregnant GSD, export her to Sweden, have the litter over there and.... Voila! Swedish Shepherds!!!


So ... if you take a pregnant GSD and export her to Sweden, wouldn't you have SWEDISH Shepherds and not SWISS Shepherds?  Last I checked, Sweden and Switzerland were not the same country...


----------



## JonnyRico (Sep 21, 2010)

AbbyK9 said:


> So ... if you take a pregnant GSD and export her to Sweden, wouldn't you have SWEDISH Shepherds and not SWISS Shepherds?  Last I checked, Sweden and Switzerland were not the same country...


 DOH!!!  haha


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> I thought Swiss Shepherds were the ones that weren't protective oke::rofl:


They just don't pay tax!


----------



## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

vukc said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Trying to play devils advocate or "smart *ss" as some call it.
> Technically since 2002 White Shepherds dogs are considered to be a different - separate breed from German Shepherd.
> ...


Technically, no  

Not all white German Shepherds are bred and registered as White Swiss Shepherds. All breeders of white German Shepherds should not be lumped into the same group - a portion of them only register their dogs as German Shepherds and breed and exhibit German Shepherds, including the white color. It may actually depend on where the dog in question was from. Genetically, they are all the same, of course, but if someone wants to actually boil it down, a look into the lines and kennel names and registration may show that the dog is from a breeder that breeds German Shepherds or a breeder that breeds white German Shepherds as White Shepherds. 

Although you also have specific lines that were the basis for both a great deal of the White Shepherd lines and the white German Shepherd lines and breeders that switched over from German Shepherds into White Shepherds with the dogs they breed, and etc. 

Fun, isn't it?

Either way, genetically they are all German Shepherd Dogs and that's what this forum is dedicated to! Plus, we even have our honorary spotted floppy eared German Shepherds!


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

And curly tailed German Shepherds! =)


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GSDs with cow licks, light eyes, wonky ears, that soaking wet weigh 49 pounds.


----------



## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I want to see a liver and blue...love the livers faulty and all


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

selzer said:


> How exactly do you take a German dog breed and make it a Swiss dog breed?
> .


Not hard to understand really.

The GSD was developed and registered in Germany because that was where Max lived. If he had lived in Spain you'd be reading the Spanish Shepherd board.  

The Berger Blanc Suisse, originally known as the German Shepherd, color white, was first recognized as a NEW breed in Switzerland in 1991 after being bred for over 30 years in that country...not hard to understand why the Swiss took front and center when they were naming the breed.


----------



## Joker (Sep 15, 2006)

katieliz said:


> joker...you're joking, right?


Ah......... no and after reading all the replies I feel sick and just puked in my mouth. 


selzer said:


> GSDs with cow licks, light eyes, wonky ears, that soaking wet weigh 49 pounds.


I posted this in the breed standard section and sorta thought that...............
Carry on Pfffffffft


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Well, some of us got our GSDs from shelters, rescues, and BYBs(unfortunately, some didn't know what BYBs were until they cam here.) and so therefore not everyone has well bred GSDs. They are perfect to us and thats all that matters. 

Every GSD is perfect in their own way. If it looks like a GSD, sounds like a GSD, it must be a GSD.(Or however that saying goes)


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Joker said:


> Ah......... no and after reading all the replies I feel sick and just puked in my mouth.
> 
> *I posted this in the breed standard section and sorta thought that...............*
> Carry on Pfffffffft


You sorta thought that ....... what????
That only pretty dogs that conformed to the standard would grace the appearance of the message board. 

Which kind? Those straight backed working line dogs, the roachy Germans showline dogs, the ****** American bred dogs? 

Which kind of people are welcome here? Only people with pretty dogs that you approve of. 

Leave the white dog alone. It is a German Shepherd. So are floppsy Mopsy and cotton tail. Ooops I meant floppy ears, Long coats, and happy tails. 

Leave my light eyed, wonky eared, cowlick growing, little girl alone!


----------



## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

May I know exactly what it is that you have a problem with, in all seriousness? Are you saying that the white German Shepherd in the banner is, in fact, not a German Shepherd? What are you basing that claim on? 

I looked at your location and smiled because you are actually living in the state where the majority of the white German Shepherd events and breeders/exhibitors are located!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

And go puke in your mouth some more if you must, we do not want to hear about it.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm curious to know what Joker thinks is wrong with the whites? What does Max say that only the Joker knows?


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I'm curious to know what Joker thinks is wrong with the whites? What does Max say that only the Joker knows?


Max said nothing. The original breed standard, set in place by Max, accepted whites as a natural color of the GSD, but the standard for the SV and then eventually the AKC (among others) was changed to make the color white a disqualifying fault. 

Because white is no longer accepted by the SV, and because whites can't be shown in the AKC conformation ring, (but they can be registered and they can compete in other AKC sanctioned events) some people are vehemently opposed to the color, the breeding that results in that color and the people who breed or own that color. The white german shepherd does not meet the breed standard, it's that simple.

Looks like Joker takes the breed standard VERY seriously and the picture of the white on the top of the forum is giving him a case of the pffffffff's!!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I don't think it is helpful to pretend off colors do not exist. Maybe Joker thinks we should cull them. I like black and tans, but if I ever go from slob into collector (before I reach full fledged hoarder) I will probably want a white one and a black one and a sable. Oh yeah, color is the LAST thing we should be concerned with... LOL!


----------



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

It's simple...the picture at the top has nothing to do with breeding. 

Has anyone invented chill pills yet?


----------



## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Max said nothing. The original breed standard, set in place by Max, accepted whites as a natural color of the GSD, but the standard for the SV and then eventually the AKC (among others) was changed to make the color white a disqualifying fault.
> 
> Because white is no longer accepted by the SV, and because whites can't be shown in the AKC conformation ring, (but they can be registered and they can compete in other AKC sanctioned events) some people are vehemently opposed to the color, the breeding that results in that color and the people who breed or own that color. The white german shepherd does not meet the breed standard, it's that simple.
> 
> Looks like Joker takes the breed standard VERY seriously and the picture of the white on the top of the forum is giving him a case of the pffffffff's!!


Exactly! While Max was not crazy about the white color, he did not see any reason to disqualify it, and even specifically stated that no good dog is a bad color and warned against the selection of color and other such aesthetics in the breeding process. 

Now, here's a question for you, WS (since I believe you are more well versed in the whites than I will ever be  ) - did the disqualification of the white color happen during the time of the Nazis and Holocaust or is that pure rumor? I have heard it being brought up several times as fact, while others dismissed that as rubbish. I am curious about this!


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> Has anyone invented chill pills yet?


Yes but they're illegal to have without a prescription.


----------



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Pill form?! Where's the fun in that? Brownies please


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

"Special Brownies"?

*Puts out fresh hot batch of "Special Brownies"*


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Pass them over, doctor Jessica.


----------



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

:rofl: What would we do without you Jessica?


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

*Passes the brownies to Selzer*

Idk. When I make my bake shop it will "Dr. Jessica's Special Prescriptions"


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LOL, you might want to avoid people with GSDs with a name like that.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

selzer said:


> LOL, you might want to avoid people with GSDs with a name like that.


I will be the main supplier.


----------



## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I will be the main supplier.


Hurry over to the Guide, Therapy and Service Dog Forum!!! We need special brownies! Oh no, you're offline...


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Now, here's a question for you, WS (since I believe you are more well versed in the whites than I will ever be  ) - did the disqualification of the white color happen during the time of the Nazis and Holocaust or is that pure rumor? I have heard it being brought up several times as fact, while others dismissed that as rubbish. I am curious about this!


White German Shepherds were disqualified from the standard in 1933, which is the same year that Hitler came to power. I believe the two are completely unrelated. I'm pretty sure the Nazi party's first goal after taking power that year was NOT to exclude white Shepherds from the breed standard.


----------



## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

AbbyK9 said:


> White German Shepherds were disqualified from the standard in 1933, which is the same year that Hitler came to power. I believe the two are completely unrelated. I'm pretty sure the Nazi party's first goal after taking power that year was NOT to exclude white Shepherds from the breed standard.


:rofl: 

Thanks for clarifying! Do you happen to have more information on exactly why the white color was disqualified and the reasoning and process behind that? 

By the way, your post reminded me that I should start keeping an eye on your blog again. Have always loved reading through it, one of the most informative yet!


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Rei said:


> Now, here's a question for you, WS (since I believe you are more well versed in the whites than I will ever be  ) - did the disqualification of the white color happen during the time of the Nazis and Holocaust or is that pure rumor? I have heard it being brought up several times as fact, while others dismissed that as rubbish. I am curious about this!


From what I can gather, Max became the odd man out in the organization he started.  It started some time in the late 20's and came to a head in 1935 when he left the SV. 
The Nazi's are only relevant because it was during their rise to power that the white's began to suffer from discrimination AND, it's believed that many members of the SV belonged to the Nazi party. I highly doubt the Nazi party as a whole cared about the breed. 

Winifred Gibson Strickland did an interview for his book "The German Shepherd Today" with Herta von Stephanitz, who was the daughter of Max von Stephanitz. 

Her recollection was that the Nazi's were more focused on the look of the 
GSD rather than their ability to work. Many of the members of the SV did not like the color white, they preferred the darker colors. Many also believed that the gene that produced the color white was also the cause of mental and physical problems in the breed. 

It's believed that the SV members began to take the GSD in a different direction than Max had intended and that included being concerned about the looks of the dog. The reality is, members of the SV were questioning the standard. (sound familiar??) Max didn't agree with the members and was supposedly threatened if he did not change his vision. He left the SV in 1935 and died a year later. 

We can only assume that the information Max's daughter had came from her father. If it was based on fact or his own reality, no one can really say. 
What we do know is that white puppies were killed by German breeders in an effort to eliminate the color. It's also well known that whites had been exported to the US and Austria before the killing began, so the extermination of the whites would never be successful.


----------



## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I thought I read somewhere that they didn't like white because it blended in with the sheep too much when they were shepherding.


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Rei - I posted earlier on in this thread why the whites were excluded from the standard in Germany in 1933. 

At the time, it was believed that the genetics that cause white German Shepherds to be white were to blame for causing dilution and fading in the breed's coloring if a white dog was bred to a "normal" colored dog. Of course, we now know that the white gene is not a dilusion gene but a masking gene, and that whites actually carry the genetics to produce colored puppies if they're bred to a colored dog that does not also carry the white gene.

It was also falsely believed that, like albinism, white in the German Shepherd was the cause for a number of medical conditions and problems, such as deafness and blindness. While this is true in many breeds with albino dogs, the white German Shepherd isn't actually an albino (again, it's a masking gene - and white Shepherds do have dark eyes and dark noses, which albinos don't).

In the US, the white Shepherds were not disqualified from the standard until 1958 (I think that's the correct date - I researched it some time back but would have to go look to make sure I was right).

Hope that helps.  And thanks for the nice words on my blog.


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> AND, it's believed that many members of the SV belonged to the Nazi party.


I think people try to put too much into the fact that the whites were excluded during the Third Reich. Saying that "many members of the SV belonged to the Nazi party" is like saying that many members of the AKC are Republicans (or Democrats).



> I thought I read somewhere that they didn't like white because it blended in with the sheep too much when they were shepherding.


Oh, there are still breeders out there who believe this. Here are some quotes from a breeder's website that "explain" why White German Shepherds are disqualified from the breed standard...



> Herding dogs must be mostly dark in color. This is because the sheep see that dog as NOT being one of them and think it could be a predator, therefore they try to move away from the dark color dog. This is very helpful as the herding dog does not have to use force (bite) to move the sheep, therefore there is less chance of risk to the sheep. They naturally move away and thus are easily moved from one place to another by a herding (dark color) dog.
> 
> So now that few German Shepherds herd sheep for a living, why should be care? Well. first, a breeder is obligated to try to breed dogs that adhere to the original standard and purpose of the dog, and the other reason is as follows:
> 
> ...


Ignorance is bliss. In the opinion of this breeder (who produces primarily black Shepherds), whites can't be used for herding because the sheep won't consider them as a predator ... never mind the whites that actually do herd and the fact that white Shepherds look nothing like the yellow/tan/dirty sheep they herd.

The breeder also believes that the white gene dilutes, which we already know it does not, and that whites are more likely to be prone to genetic disorders because their gene pool is "smaller" - never mind you can breed a white to any other color Shepherd and still produce white, if the dog they're bred to also carries the white gene.

Love how they point out that breeders are obligated to produce to the "original breed standard". Considering the original standard did not exclude whites. *rolls eyes*


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Kris10 said:


> Hurry over to the Guide, Therapy and Service Dog Forum!!! We need special brownies! Oh no, you're offline...


I willl deliver a big batch.lol.

*sends out the delivery.*


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

*giggle* ...but I still love my "bleach bucket blondie" with her princess-pink schnozzle & curly-girly tail & just about every other conformation fault a GSD could possibly have. ;-)


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Dogaroo said:


> *giggle* ...but I still love my "bleach bucket blondie" with her princess-pink schnozzle & curly-girly tail & just about every other conformation fault a GSD could possibly have. ;-)


lol - thanks for the laugh!!!


----------



## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Thanks WS and Abbyk9 - are there any reliable resources you could refer me to? Credibility aside, the same statements about white color being undesirable in a herding dog and the Nazis role in the disqualification of the white coat were also ones I found in this forum.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

One of the problems with the breed in this country is so many "reputable breeders and Judges" believe this stuff and give it credibility by spewing it and them being what they are..(big time breeder or obedience/conformation judge). You would be surprised at the misinformation that comes out of the vanguards of the breed in this country. And if you call them on it (even if proved), then you are bashing them.
AbbyK9 has some good information that is consistent with what I have heard from oldtimer from Germany.


----------



## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

joker equals troll!!!


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Miss Molly May said:


> joker equals troll!!!


Joker is a real person and a member even if he seems to like to stir up stuff.


----------



## Joker (Sep 15, 2006)

lhczth said:


> Joker is a real person and a member even if he seems to like to stir up stuff.


 Stir up stuff, more like!!!!!! 
when I come here I seldom go beyond the Schutzhund or cop dog sections and sometimes stop and play there. 
Didn't expect to run into a lynch mob of estrogen crazed.................


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Actually, from what I know it is believed that one of the reasons the white shepherds were excluded was because they were unfit for military duty. Because of the color it was easier to spot them, than the black&tan or sables.

And as for the white Shepherds. To me they are Swiss, not German. Meanwhile they are two separate breeds. 

Doesn't matter if Max had no problems with them. Back then was back then, today is today and the breed standard is the breed standard... if we like it or not.


----------



## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

If it doesn't matter what the very founder of the breed thought, I'm not quite sure where we'd be with the German Shepherd Dog! 

Also, once again, in regards to the claim of why the white color was disqualified - may you direct me to a reliable source rather than just ask me to take your word for it? Much appreciated


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

whites are disqualified in the breed ring. 

That means that like it or not, breeders USED to cull them when the cropped up. 

They cropped up because white dogs existed in the beginnings of the breed. 

So white dogs are discriminated against, slaughtered, bred away from, but they can still be fully registered as German Shepeherd Dogs, at least in the AKC. Which means they can be bred, and the color has not died out.

I think that says something about the color. The color has survived, even though people were out to stamp it out. 

In the US, they are not rare there are lots of them. I see them way more often then blacks, blues, and livers. Blues and livers -- they end up being disqualified too, do we call them Hungarian Shepherds and Russian Shepherds? How the heck to they become Swiss Shepherds. Unless someone actually mixed the breeds with other dogs and started a new breed.

It does not compute for me to take the same dog and single out a color and call it a different name. If you take the Sables and call them Greenland Shepherds. Or the Blacks and call them Egyptian Shepherds? It is just unreal to me.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ok Tanner is an Egyptian Shepherd.

Lets just call them World Shepherds.lol


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

Kaija is a.... uhh.... Bothnian Shepherd. Yeah, that's it.... Bothnian. They're _supposed_ to be blonde.


----------



## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Joker said:


> Stir up stuff, more like!!!!!!


Joker, I may not agree with everything you say, but you have great taste in Smilies!


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Rei said:


> If it doesn't matter what the very founder of the breed thought, I'm not quite sure where we'd be with the German Shepherd Dog!
> 
> Also, once again, in regards to the claim of why the white color was disqualified - may you direct me to a reliable source rather than just ask me to take your word for it? Much appreciated


There is no reliable source. It's mouth to mouth. That is why I said it is BELIEVED. 

And as for the white. They are different breed. Like it or not. You can't change it. They are Berger Suisse Blanc. 
I don't have to like it but that is what the FCI says and I am following the FCI standard. If I was so fond about the breed standard I'd be all about Show dogs but I am not. I am a working line person because I don't agree with what they did to the Shepherd in the Show rin. 

However, the white Shepherd is NOT a German Shepherd. Its the Berger Blanc Suisse and that for a very long time already. 

I am glad that they have found their niche and have their own standard and do what is what they think, best for the breed. 

Trust me, it's better that way. Much better. I wouldn't want to see the white Shepherd getting crippled in the Showring like they did to the German Shepherd. And that is why I stick to working line!


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

Rotffl!!!!!!



whiteshepherds said:


> i don't think max gave too much thought about what color dogs might show up on the header of a website. I know he never mentioned it in his book.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

this was white on white racism. leave the Blacks out of it. ROTFL!!!!



selzer said:


> Or the Blacks and call them Egyptian Shepherds? It is just unreal to me.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

Bark for the Dark. it should be a Black dog. Paw on Brother.



Joker said:


> I don't come here all that much and I guess I must not be very observant but what the **** is there a white dog doing on the header of this forum.
> I surely hope I'm not the first to question this.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

it is time to sit, stay together on this one!!!! ROTFL!!!!!



DJEtzel said:


> OMG! A German Shepherd on the GSD forum header!? NOOOOO!


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

just read and laugh, read and laugh.



WarrantsWifey said:


> I owned a white GSD and I think even though he was a "WHITE" GSD, he was still a GSD none the less. I'm a tad confused why that would upset you. I am new to this board though. So I'm a bit ignorant on how things used to be....


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

Joker, you made my X-Mas with this thread. i can't stop laughing
at some of the responses. don't be a stranger. post often.



Joker said:


> I don't come here all that much and I guess I must not be very observant but what the **** is there a white dog doing on the header of this forum.
> I surely hope I'm not the first to question this.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

doggiedad said:


> this was white on white racism. leave the Blacks out of it. ROTFL!!!!


I almost said blacks would be African Shepherds, but I was afraid the racism term would come out, oh well, as it did anyway....


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

If it acts like a GSD, sounds like a GSD, looks like a GSD(structure wise, not color) its a GSD.


----------

