# dog almost bit a boy during walk



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

i was walking simba around the neighborhood. he was calmly walking by my side. a middle school kid comes walking in our direction asking to pet simba. i said sure and put simba into a sit. the kid walks up and pets simba on the head and behind his ears while telling me about his dog and cat. simba then sniffs the boys crotch area and the boy steps directly over simba and starts petting his head some more (simba is still in a sit, he never moves. he boy is standing with his legs over simbas head) all of a sudden simba lets out a huge roar and im guessing tries to bite the boys hand and lunges. the boy gets scared and steps away while i pull simba one step in the other direction. i yell sit and he immediately sits and just looks at the boy like nothing happened. body language was fine. he was calm and not tense at all. 

was this aggression or did it bother simba that the boy stood directly over his head? no growl or anything. just a super quick one second and it was over. afterwards the boy immediately walked away and simba just sat there waiting for me to release him from the sit and continue our walk. 

kinda freaked me out but im not sure if it was aggression?


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I am trying to picture this. Was the kid straddling your dog?


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

lol yeah that was a bad description. yes he was straddling him but in the opposite direction. they werent facing the same direction. and the kid was just petting him on his head while talking to me. he's had 5 kids pet him all over his head and face with no problems. his ears even go back like when im petting him. it was just so sudden and he sounded pretty mean but not sure if he really wanted to bite. he couldve just taken a chunk out of the kids thighs that were right next to his face if he wanted?


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Stranger straddling over an unknown dog while petting... I'm pretty sure the dog gave off calming signals before he growled and lunged.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think a stranger should be able to straddle or step
over a dog.



Mrs.K said:


> Stranger straddling over an unknown dog while petting... I'm pretty sure the dog gave off calming signals before he growled and lunged.


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

so was it aggression? i know i shouldnt have let any stranger straddle my dog in the first place. it just happened so fast and simba seemed so calm before and after. he didnt growl before. he just immediately tried to bite and the boy stepped off and simba lunged once and i snapped his collar and told him to sit and it was over. if it was because of the straddle then thats fine. but if its aggression then i have a bigger problem


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

So the boy was facing towards Simba's tail? Are you sure nothing got stepped on? Without a warning growl that would be my first thought. Boy might've moved his food and stepped on Simba's tail or foot.

And no...a stranger should not be able to straddle your dog for more than a second. Step over when the dog is in a down, sure...but I'd never expect my dog to sit there while someone puts their crotch over his head.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

why not? i trained my dog to let people step over him
by having people step over him. i trained to to let people
straddle him by having people straddle him. i also had people
approach him form the rear, pet his tail, pet his head,
pet his stomach, etc. how did you come up with a stranger
shouldn't be able to straddle a dog for more than a second?
how many seconds should a stranger be able to step over 
a dog? lol. stepping over, straddling, approaching from the rear,
touching their head, lifting their tail, reaching under them, etc. is
a standard part of training for me. my dog knows "go through my legs".
i spread my legs and say "go through my legs" and he'll go back and forth
between my legs. he'll do that for a stranger also.



martemchik said:


> So the boy was facing towards Simba's tail? Are you sure nothing got stepped on? Without a warning growl that would be my first thought. Boy might've moved his food and stepped on Simba's tail or foot.
> 
> >>>>> And no...a stranger should not be able to straddle your dog for more than a second.<<<<<
> 
> Step over when the dog is in a down, sure...but I'd never expect my dog to sit there while someone puts their crotch over his head.


----------



## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm guessing something was stepped on, but I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't let some random person straddle my dog. Only person(s) who have the authority to stand over my dog like that are the members of my household, no one else. Any pressure on the back or head forcing it downward could possibly be taken as trying to force the dog into a submissive position (head/body low to the ground) and the dog might not react in a way we want them to.

The only other person I can think of who ever straddled Finn was the head SAR trainer, but he was playing with the dog and Finn was enjoying himself and had run between his legs, then sat down to get his head and ears rubbed...but I would not have allowed a random person to straddle my dog.

People can step over and step around Finn all they want and he will most likely roll over for you to give him a belly rub once you are over him or he most likely won't even move.


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

yeah now that i think of it, it is very very likely that the boy stepped on one of simbas front feet. also this boy was probably in middle school so he wasnt very tall. his balls were basically sitting on top of simbas head. so simba was in a very confined space which also may have triggered it. if simba was laying down the boy could have walked over simba all he wanted. but basically sitting on his head and then reaching down with his hands to rub on his head some more may have been too much. either way i just hope its not aggression. i want to be able to trust my dog around strangers.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> why not?



Is this a serious question? 




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

simba405 said:


> yeah now that i think of it, it is very very likely that the boy stepped on one of simbas front feet. also this boy was probably in middle school so he wasnt very tall. his balls were basically sitting on top of simbas head. so simba was in a very confined space which also may have triggered it. if simba was laying down the boy could have walked over simba all he wanted.* but basically sitting on his head and then reaching down with his hands to rub on his head some more may have been too much.* either way i just hope its not aggression. i want to be able to trust my dog around strangers.


Frankly, your dog needs to trust YOU with him around strangers just as much.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I think that was a lot to subject Simba to, especially if he's not used to kids glomming all over him like that. Many dogs wouldn't be comfortable with it. He probably sent out warning signals prior to the snap, but they were subtle and you missed them. Rarely does a dog go from 100% calm, relaxed and happy to a snap - that's usually the last resort, after earlier warnings are not heeded.


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Yes, this was aggression. Plain and simple. What you need to figure out is if it was an appropriate response to the situation. If not, then you have something to work on. 

We can make excuses and give reasons why he did it all day long. But the answer to your question is yes. Your dog roared and lunged at a child. Granted, said child was being inappropriate. But your dog showed aggression. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

What kept Simba from biting the boy? Probably not you, because of the closeness you described. Simba could have taken a bite in less than a second. Simba was just giving a warning.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

Not aggression. This was a warning. If Simba wanted to he could have neutered the boy before you could pull the leash back. Could it be that as the guy got close to Simba, he also got closer to you and Simba wasn't comfortable with that? My dogs block people from getting close to me (no barking, just put themselves between me and the other person) but if the person gets closer, like close enough my dog is going to back into me, then they'll do a nasty bark.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when i said "why not" i was asking Martemchik why shouldn't
a person be able to straddle a dog. now i'm asking you. why
shouldn't a person be able to straddle or step over adog?
part of my dog's training/socializing was having people step
over him, straddle him, lift his tail, pet his head, approach
him from the rear, touch his mouth, pet his stomach, etc.



mycobraracr said:


> why not?
> 
> Is this a serious question?
> 
> ...


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> when i said "why not" i was asking Martemchik why shouldn't
> a person be able to straddle a dog. now i'm asking you. why
> shouldn't a person be able to straddle or step over adog?
> part of my dog's training/socializing was having people step
> ...


Conversely, why should YOU let someone sit on your dogs' head?


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

doggiedad said:


> part of my dog's training/socializing was having people step
> over him, straddle him, lift his tail, pet his head, approach
> him from the rear, touch his mouth, pet his stomach, etc.


But what about dogs who did not have that as part of their training/socialization? Would you expect them to accept it as well as your dog does?


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

And once again, reasons are given that makes it okay for a GSD to "roar" lunge etc at a child. Typical reason:it is the childs fault. Child did this, child did that. If the dog had wanted to bite, he would have bitten him.
Just read another post where dog bit child while petting his head. Many gave reasons why the dog did it and of course the child was partially blamed. Guarding a bbq, guarding food, etc.
I guess my question is: why do people get all upset when they read about GSD being considered bad dogs, mean dogs, bad with kids, etc ?This forum makes them all sound like a bunch of vicious dogs and everytime they have a reason why. For heavens sake, I read where the dog bites a MEMBER of the family it lives with and again, reasons are given why its okay for the dog to have bitten. Heck according to alot of folks on this forum, its never the dogs fault that he bites, almost bites, lunges, "nips" etc. Its always the fault of the person/child: walked funny, wearing dark coat, moved to quick, was too close to the food, car,yard, fence, person walking dog, etc.
I'm sorry, someday folks need to realize GSD or any dog doesn't NEED to bite, doesn't HAVE to bite, and instead of blaming whomever is at the end of the teeth, they need to be honest and realize THEIR dog has issues and face reality.
As I have been told before I guess I should not have a GSD, I should have gotten a Golden retriever or something because my GSD Holly ACTUALLY likes people of all sizes and colors, big and small, fat and skinny, walking normal, walking bent over, little kids, big kids. She loves to be petted, be given treats for shaking hands, playing dead, catching the treat. She goes to the vet, the stores, the parks, the malls and has a great time because she thinks everyone there is wanting to be her friend. She accepts treats, she accepts petting, she follows commands from others. She loves to play with other dogs. I guess, according to lots on this forum, she is a bad GSD because she actually enjoys people, places and life in general.
Is she perfect? Nope, she chews up stuff she finds in the yard that I don't think to put away. She shreds her toys, she digs holes in the yard. She can be a pain in my behind when cleaning the yard. She barks at the squirrels that tease her on the fence.
All in all, I LOVE having a calm, friendly safe GSD. I don't have to worry about lawsuits or her biting. Oh yea, she is 2 1/2 years old, spayed and in great shape.


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Aggression cannot be defined by the absence or presence of contact made. Because the dog did not castrate the boy, you say it was not aggression. You are wrong. The dog roared and lunged, NO growl, per OP, no warning. The fact that the kid and handler had quick reflexes and no one was harmed does not mean there was no aggression. 

I am NOT saying that I was concerned, I think the whole situation was ridiculous to put a dog in. I would not be freaking out. But YES, the dog showed aggression. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Nobody is making excuses for the dog or blaming it on the child.

Very few people can be absolutely, 100% certain that their dog would not WARN someone harassing them. When you're dealing with a child and the stakes are even higher, to allow the child to behave in such a way is frankly irresponsible. Because on the 1% chance that your dog does reach his threshold, the dog will pay. Absolutely, we all WANT our dogs to be bomb proof and our dogs SHOULD be bomb proof. Is that even remotely reality? Not even close. Aside from the fact that so many people haven't the slightest clue how tolerant their dogs are because they have no idea what to look for and grossly misjudge how socialized they are. 

Yes, absolutely, a stranger SHOULD be able to straddle your dog. But knowing that there's even a minute chance that a child AND your dog will pay the price if something goes wrong, is that even a chance you're willing to take? I consider my dog 100% bomb proof with stuff like this and would never, EVER allow a stranger to do this to my dog. At the end of the day, they're an animal and nothing is certain.

It's not a bad child, or a "bad" dog (perhaps one who needs more socializing and other things), but a slip of responsibility on the owner for letting it happen in the first place.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

People need to stop humanizing dogs. They don't think like we do. I expect people to teach their kids how to interact with dogs. I also expect handlers to not allow people to put their dogs in a submissive and vulnerable position.


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I agree. Reading your dog is so important and lots of people can't seem to do that. They think they know their dog, but do miss the subtle signs of stress, etc.
I was just making a point. So many, and even this one, brought up the child was standing to close, might have stepped on the dogs foot/tail. The other example I used was the little girl who was petting the dog on the head and it grabbed her. Excuses made were the dog might have been guarding the food, guarding the owner. When incedents are mentioned about biting a family member, there are always the ones who say" well, was the person moving too quick, did they jump up from the seat, did they get to close to the toy/food/bed, etc.
I believe there are too many excuses made for why the dog has bitten, lunged, attacked, etc instead of just plain "The dog has major issues". Period.
Holly might not see my grandkids but every few months. They are growing up fast, voices changing, appearances changing each time they visit. However, they can go into the yard or come in the house acting like kids, making noise, playing with her, running around and she doesn't act any different : she enjoys playing, walking, sleeping, and being around them. When folks come in the house, even if she doesn't know them, she greets them and then goes and lays down. She will mind commands given by other people, will let anyone take food/toys/bones, etc from her or her dish, be handled by other people. I have just expected her to deal with this type of everyday life and experiences and she has grown up expecting daily life to be just what it is, changing every day, meeting new people, going places. It is life, she is my dog and I expect her to be able to accept life however it is thrown at her.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

we're not talking about letting someone sit on a dog's head
or my dog's head. we're talking about straddling a dog. to me
straddling a dog is just another part of training. 



doggiedad said:


> when i said "why not" i was asking Martemchik why shouldn't a person be able to straddle a dog. now i'm asking you. why shouldn't a person be able to straddle or step over adog?
> part of my dog's training/socializing was having people step
> over him, straddle him, lift his tail, pet his head, approach
> him from the rear, touch his mouth, pet his stomach, etc.





LoveEcho said:


> Conversely, why should YOU let someone sit on your dogs' head?


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

gsdsar said:


> Yes, this was aggression. Plain and simple. What you need to figure out is if it was an appropriate response to the situation. If not, then you have something to work on.
> 
> We can make excuses and give reasons why he did it all day long. But the answer to your question is yes. Your dog roared and lunged at a child. Granted, said child was being inappropriate. But your dog showed aggression.


I agree with this 100%. 
Sheilah


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

mycobraracr said:


> People need to stop humanizing dogs. They don't think like we do. I expect people to teach their kids how to interact with kids. I also expect handlers to not allow people to put their dogs in a submissive and vulnerable position.


Agreed! Some people should consider getting a stuffed animal. 



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Let's back up a moment. 

You're walking with your dog at your side, maybe a little ahead of you. A boy comes up, askes to pet your dog and you tell the dog to sit. Now he is next to you. Can you picture this in your mind?

Ok the boy pets the dog, and the dog sniffs him, kind of typical for dogs. I think the problem everyone is having is the word straddled. 

Who among you are going to stand there while some unknown boy dangles his family jewels on top of your dog's head, straddling your dog? It is an unnatural position with a dog sitting, we already know the dog's nose is level enough for a sniff. What boy old enough to straddle a sitting GSD is going to walk up and do it to a dog he doesn't know? 

How could he be petting the dog's ears if they are between his legs? How can he be talking to you if he is straddling the dog who is next to you? 

I picture this scenario with the boy in a stance in front of the dog, legs apart, petting the dogs ears and head. 

And yes, this is aggression. I really cannot say why the dog roared and lunged. It is possible that the boy pinched an ear, some boys are idiots. And no, Wyominggrandma, I am not simply blaming the child. It is possible that the boy did something like that. And I do not want to ignore the possibility. I find that more likely than the kid stepping on a foot. Dogs will yelp in pain if you step on their foot. That is an accident. 

Roaring and lunging, is more of an retaliation for something. But it is just a guess. A possibility. 

And no, Doggiedad, I have not trained my dogs to take ear pinches from totals stranger, just because some kid might go and do that some day. Nor do I train them to let people straddle them, sorry. When would I ever allow that to happen? 

If this dog has never had any issues with children before, and the owner wasn't holding the dog in a death grip, and all nervous, I guess I have to wonder if maybe the kid actually did do something to cause a reaction. 

In any case, you now have to be particularly careful with your dog around strange children. Becaue you really cannot take the chance that the dog will bite one of them. Up the training, continue to socialize the dog in different situations and keep your eyes and ears tuned to your dog's body language so you can move away from situations before they become incidents.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I am beginning to get confused.
Dogs are dogs.
Are some of you saying they should never bite?
Whatever happened to what they used to ask us when we were kids: "What did you do to the dog?"


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> we're not talking about letting someone sit on a dog's head
> or my dog's head. we're talking about straddling a dog. to me
> straddling a dog is just another part of training.


She already stated that the child, who was presumably short enough that "straddling" meant sitting on his head, was....sitting on his head. 

HUGE difference between standing over a dog, and a strange person sitting on them.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if you straddle a dog who wasn't trained for it i exspect
a name change if you're a male, Tommy to Tammy. :laugh:



doggiedad said:


> part of my dog's training/socializing was having people step
> over him, straddle him, lift his tail, pet his head, approach
> him from the rear, touch his mouth, pet his stomach, etc.





Cassidy's Mom said:


> >>>> But what about dogs who did not have that as part of their training/socialization? Would you expect
> them to accept it as well as your dog does?<<<<
> 
> [/QUOTE]


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> I am beginning to get confused.
> Dogs are dogs.
> Are some of you saying they should never bite?
> Whatever happened to what they used to ask us when we were kids: "What did you do to the dog?"


 I know what you are saying but that was years ago when a dog was a dog. Dogs running together on the street, dogs playing in the parks off leash with the neighborhood kids. And if the dog bit, it was because you probably did something to deserve it.
However, now days if your dog bites, you get sued. Dogs don't get to run loose and play because there are too many aggressive dogs to let them loose, plus leash laws. Dogs used to be kinda "family type dogs" and working dogs. Now there are so many different breeds bred for so many reason, whether good or bad. Dogs that used to be family dogs are now used/bred/trained to be drug guarding dogs, fighting dogs and then are let loose to bite and attack other dogs/people. Our first family dog was a Cocker Spaniel. She was a great dog, put up with anything ... Went everywhere.. Now cockers have rage syndrome, ear issues, temperament issues. Most are not good family dogs. So much inbreeding is being done, temperaments/health are not very important to some:looks and how much money can be made are more important. Look at all the designer breeds now that have major health problems. But they are "so cute and so tiny" people spend thousands on them. Just because they want the Peekapoo, puggle, maltipoo, yorkipoo and on and on. We had a lady come in with a "teddy bear" puppy...... Huh? Someone is breeding pom/poodle/shihtzu mixes to make them look like bears............. 
As far as biting, I am different than lots of folks on this forum. I don't believe a dog should bite a human at all. Period. If the dog is well bred with a good temperament, and has been trained to be a part of society then it shouldn't bite. (of course a dog that is injured/in pain will bite, this is different) I am talking a dog that lives in a normal house with family, kids, etc. They should accept life .Dogs should accept change, different people, etc. But again, I guess most don't think like I do. I have been bitten by enough dogs and been given so many reasons why the dog bit, I just don't accept it.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Wyominggrandma, ideally that would be the case, but they're still dogs, and I think every single dog out there has the potential to bite.

People cannot control every single situation. If the perfect storm forms, it will happen. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I would expect a dog to correct a child for being inappropriate just as I would expect a dog to correct a puppy for being inappropriate. Just because we see/treat dogs differently these days doesn't mean that the dogs do.


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

That is true. I have been bitten by so many whether at the vets or grooming, I have lost count. Stitches and rabies shots. 
Any dog can bite. However, I don't think there should be" It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when." 
With dogs I have raised from puppyhood during my lifetime, I have NEVER had a dog bite me or anyone else. I have always been able to take food/toys/etc from them. I have never had to muzzle a dog at the vet clinic. I don't' argue with a dog about anything, its my house, my food, my toys, my rules... 
I have had dogs that I have gotten from others with biting issues and they are not welcome at my home. They will go back to the breeder immediately. I have also had dogs from other breeders who don't bite, they stay. Some may think I am cold or cruel, but I love my animals and will do anything for them. However, I will not own or keep a biting dog of any size.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think the dog was not prepared and I would never let more than one kid at a time touch the dog. I always use petting my dog as an opportunity to TELL kids what not to do as well so I would have stopped the boy. 

Straddling - yes and I work on that because the last time at the vet nothing happened but Beau was really not to happy about folks playing with his butt. So I have been working on that. I good do Grim's thermometer without a helper. I need to get there with Beau.

Also the big ones are often sitting on the floor when they draw blood and one person can straddle him and hold off the vein so I am practicing that with him. {Just holding arm and using pressure while straddling. No need to hold of a vein too much - they are more fragile than arteries}


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I agree with wyominggrandma that this forum tends to take away all blame from the dog.

GSDs are a protective breed with a certain amount of aggression being normal. Yes some dogs are like hers and some aren't. You need too know your own dog an what chances you will or won't take.

I have two GSDs. Jack loves kids and is neutral to adults. Zena likes most adults and is neutral to kids. When the two are together then that's a new dimension.

I won't let people do quite a few things with my dogs and it's not because I think they will bite them but I'm not 100% sure. To me it's not worth the risk because some stranger wants to straddle my dog.

Most of the dogs I've owned have been like wyominggrandma's but these two are very territorial and protective. There is nothing wrong with them I think the are representative of the standard but I'm not going to risk certain things.

Know your dog.

doggiedad; You cannot train and socialize every trait or characteristic out of every dog or instill all the ones you wish into every dog. They have distinct personalities and quirks just like us humans.


----------



## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

mycobraracr said:


> I would expect a dog to correct a child for being inappropriate just as I would expect a dog to correct a puppy for being inappropriate. Just because we see/treat dogs differently these days doesn't mean that the dogs do.


Sorry but I disagree, my dog better never correct a child with a lunge or bite. Dogs are not stupid. They know humans are not dogs. We, hopefully, don't treat dogs as humans and ask them to reason like a human. There is a difference. 

I have never trained a dog to accept a stranger standing over them or sitting in their head. It's never been an issue. My dogs look to me for guidance and watch my body language to know what I find acceptable. 

I can't count how many times some random 2 year old has appeared around my dog neck. I look down, said child is engaged with my dog, I am relaxed, they stay relaxed. If they don't like it, they move. They DON'T roar and lunge. My dogs go with me everywhere. Crowded events, stressful events, they have been stepped on, had their hair pulled, been kissed and hugged by strangers. If I am calm and accepting, they are. Period. Am I vigilant? Yup. Do I allow my dogs to be " abused" by strangers? No. I control the environment. But I expect them to be accepting of things. If I don't like what happening I change the situation. It's my job as a handler to know my dogs limits, and my dogs to trust me and to trust that I won't let something happen. 

I don't know how old the OP dog is. And getting a dog to such a level takes time. It's something for the OP to work on and know his dogs limits and help him relax so that the situation does not happen again. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> Sorry but I disagree, my dog better never correct a child with a lunge or bite. Dogs are not stupid. They know humans are not dogs. We, hopefully, don't treat dogs as humans and ask them to reason like a human. There is a difference.
> 
> I have never trained a dog to accept a stranger standing over them or sitting in their head. It's never been an issue. My dogs look to me for guidance and watch my body language to know what I find acceptable.
> 
> ...



:thumbup: I couldn't agree more. How many times have people said that a GSD should be able to tell a threat from a non threat? None of my dogs would ever lunge or growl at a kid. It would be completely unacceptable. The kids in my family run and play with my dogs all the time..they trip on each other and step on each other, without a peep.


----------



## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Know your dog. 

If one of my dogs acted this way toward a kid, that would probably be the end of unknown kids being allowed to pet my dog. You can work on "socialization" to increase their threshold but I put a lot of stock in genetics. To great extent, you've got what you've got.

Yes, this is aggression. Call it fear aggression, social aggression, defense behavior whatever you want.

Figure out if you want to try to train your dog to tolerate this or not. Decide if you _can_ train your dog to tolerate this. If not, unknown kids don't get to pat your dog anymore. I know it feels mean to say "no" but it is much meaner to put the kid or your dog in a dangerous situation. 

Not every dog is a social butterfly. Not every kid knows how to correctly approach a dog. Some dogs are fine with everyone, some aren't. 

Know your dog.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

llombardo said:


> How many times have people said that a GSD should be able to tell a threat from a non threat?


 

Determining a threat and a correction are not the same thing. A correction would be like a spanking. A threat would be a punch in the face. Not the same. 

Just to clarify I was just making a point about the correction.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> Determining a threat and a correction are not the same thing. A correction would be like a spanking. A threat would be a punch in the face. Not the same.
> 
> Just to clarify I was just making a point about the correction.


That would be humanizing a dog, a dog does not have any right to correct any human. This is a serious flaw in my book.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

llombardo said:


> That would be humanizing a dog, a dog does not have any right to correct any human. This is a serious flaw in my book.


How is that humanizing? Do you think a dog bites in the same place with the same force every time? No they can control it just as they do to puppies and the such. To think an animal can't correct another animal would be humanizing. 

OP sorry this got off topic.


----------



## AngelaA6 (Jan 20, 2013)

I don't think I'd be comfortable letting a kid straddle my dog. My dog may be comfortable enough to allow me and the vet, but I don't want to find out if he's comfortable allowing a kid to do it. I just remember how my mom freaked out when just a Chihuahua bit my knee and I don't want to know what it'd be like to see a mom come after me for a GSD bite.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> How is that humanizing? Do you think a dog bites in the same place with the same force every time? No they can control it just as they do to puppies and the such. To think an animal can't correct another animal would be humanizing.
> 
> OP sorry this got off topic.


Its not off topic. *If* the OP's dog was "correcting" the kid, the dog was out of place. Its humanizing in the sense that one would give the dog the right to correct a human. Dogs don't have those kind of rights and if they did there would be lots more lawsuits and a lot less dogs in this world. Like someone else said dogs aren't stupid, most of them know their place and its a serious flaw if the dog takes it upon themselves to correct or even if it feels the need to correct a human.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

wyominggrandma said:


> And once again, reasons are given that makes it okay for a GSD to "roar" lunge etc at a child.


Where? Who said it was okay? :thinking:


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have a question. If a child stuck a pencil down a dog's ear, would you exonerate the dog from correcting the child? Just curious. 

This is a breed that has been specifically bred over 100 years to show aggression to human or animal that is a threat to its flock, farm, family, handler. Some police departments are departing from our breed because they lack some of the desire to engage that other breeds have. Now I want a dog that is safe with children and people that I am ok with, and not going to eat anyone's dog, but I kind of feel it is my responsibility to not allow random strangers to do things that I don't even do to my dogs as a regular course. 

Some young dogs know what a threat is naturally, and others go through a period when they think everything is a threat, and need to gain some doggy wisdom. What dogs do not do is they do not card potential threats to find out if they are under 18 or over 18. If a 12 year old kid puts a finger in their eyeball, and gets bitten for being an idiot, I would not fault the dog. What the courts might do is another story. 

So, should we just keep all of our dogs away from children? Children have problems. Normal children. They stare into dogs' eyes. They run and scream. They often have poor impulse control. They can be very unpredictable. And most of them are attracted to dogs. And some children -- yes middle school age children, are fascinated by fire, and some like to cause pain in animals. 

If your dog is regularly subjected to children, if your dog lives with children 95% of the battle should not even be a question. But this dog has seen children 5 times. Did I read that correct? Is the dog a young dog who is just getting its adult temperament, and just finding out that he does not care for boys of middle school age? Or is this dog a dog that was perfectly ok with kids so long as they are not doing something that really makes them uncomfortable? 

Some dogs do need a little space, and some dogs do need more socialization in normal situations so that they can make wise decisions. 

But should dogs bite? I think they should, but I hope mine never do.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you're right you can't take out or instill every trait or characteristic
you want but stepping over and straddling a dog is something i think
can be taught to most dogs. some dog's may not like being stepped over,
straddled, hugged, etc. whenever i mention trained or socialized you
always have a left hand slant about it.



Jack's Dad said:


> doggiedad; You cannot train and socialize every trait or characteristic out of every dog or instill all the ones you wish into every dog. They have distinct personalities and quirks just like us humans.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Its humanizing in the sense that one would give the dog the right to correct a human. QUOTE]
> 
> Oh I see where you were going with it and I agree. I'm not saying I would allow it. I'm just trying to look at it from the dogs point of view. In the OP's case I think she allowed her dog to be put in a bad situation. Above all else I make sure my dogs are stable around kids. I just need to clarify.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

no dog should be made to suffer unruly children or the elderly. the handler is the one that should get the correction for putting a dog in this situation.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> I have a question. If a child stuck a pencil down a dog's ear, would you exonerate the dog from correcting the child? Just curious.


I would expect a growl, but I would also expect that dog to go the other way. I would probably correct the child in this case. Years ago we had a GSD/St. Bernard, he was 140 lbs easy. He was about 14 when I had my son and he did not like kids. He was a grumpy old man. Anyway when my son was about 9 months old he decided to crawl out of his crib, over a gate, and up about 20 stairs. Did I expect him to do this? Nope, I was on the third level cleaning and thinking my son was still napping. Imagine my surprise when I came into the room and my son was sitting next to, hitting him(like bouncing up and down and happy) and laughing with a now 15 year old grumpy GSD/St Bernard that did not like kids. I could see in the dogs eyes that he was not happy and he was almost pleading with me to get this baby away from him. I slowly approached, talking to the dog, telling him he was a good boy and I swooped up my son. My heart was beating a mile a minute, but that dog never even growled at my son. Of course I could only try to explain to my son that what he did was bad, but he was only 9 months old. All he wanted to do is play with that dog. That is what I call a good dog and that is what I expect from any dog in my home....nothing less.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am still having a hard time picturing the scenario. A kid is standing in front of the dog, and scratching the dog's ears, and suddenly the dog roars and lunges at the kid. But does not connect with the kid. Why? How? The kid is really close petting the dog's ears, and out of the blue the dog roars? and then lunges. It is very odd. 

I wonder if the dog has an ear infection. I know sometimes dogs with chronic ear infections don't like anyone messing with their ears. Ooops sorry, I am making excuses for the dog again. 

To me it just sounds like the dog seems to have been hurt either deliberately or inadvertantly, and that is why he roared and lunged. I think if he disliked boys in general, or was afraid of them, he would have drawn back, cowered, growled right away. He would not have sniffed the kid and stood his ground for petting and then suddenly roared and lunged. 

Of course, he could be like a pony when it feels it has endured enough, and throws the kids off, or lays down and rolls over. I suppose the dog might have thought that this has gone on enough, get out of my face. Usually dogs kind of appreciate some quiet petting while people are talking calmly.


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> you're right you can't take out or instill every trait or characteristic
> you want but stepping over and straddling a dog is something i think
> can be taught to most dogs. some dog's may not like being stepped over,
> straddled, hugged, etc. whenever i mention trained or socialized you
> always have a left hand slant about it.


Nothing personal but you give that advice all the time.
I'm all for socializing and training but there are a lot of dogs that have either genetic issues or man made.
To imply that socializing and training can pretty much solve most problems can cause more difficulty if new owners don't actually know what is causing their dogs problem.
I just think on aggression threads people need to be cautious with their advice. 
None of us were there and don't know exactly what happened, nor do we know anything about the dogs genetics.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> I would expect a growl, but I would also expect that dog to go the other way. I would probably correct the child in this case. Years ago we had a GSD/St. Bernard, he was 140 lbs easy. He was about 14 when I had my son and he did not like kids. He was a grumpy old man. Anyway when my son was about 9 months old he decided to crawl out of his crib, over a gate, and up about 20 stairs. Did I expect him to do this? Nope, I was on the third level cleaning and thinking my son was still napping. Imagine my surprise when I came into the room and my son was sitting next to, hitting him(like bouncing up and down and happy) and laughing with a now 15 year old grumpy GSD/St Bernard that did not like kids. I could see in the dogs eyes that he was not happy and he was almost pleading with me to get this baby away from him. I slowly approached, talking to the dog, telling him he was a good boy and I swooped up my son. My heart was beating a mile a minute, but that dog never even growled at my son. Of course I could only try to explain to my son that what he did was bad, but he was only 9 months old. All he wanted to do is play with that dog. That is what I call a good dog and that is what I expect from any dog in my home....nothing less.


Your kid, in your home. Yes, I would hope that the dog would accept that from a baby. 

Also, a dog on lead, can't go the other way. When a dog is connected you take away flight. 

I asked the question because a friend of mine had a dog and a two year old. One day out of the blue, the dog visciously growled at the two year old. She was shocked. She removed the dog, and then took it to the vet. They were going to put the dog down. 

The dog was I think a sheltie, but I could be wrong about that, it may have been a shepherd or a corgi. Anyhow, the dog was on the table and the vet was getting ready to put it down when he happened to notice the ear looked funny and looked into the ear and there was a No. 2 pencil shoved down into the ear canal. They did not euthanize the dog. 

I think there is a point where a dog can correct a human. My dogs never correct me, and they are good with the vet. But, I don't know if the situation was right, I can see a dog correcting a human or a child.


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I would expect a growl, but I would also expect that dog to go the other way. I would probably correct the child in this case. Years ago we had a GSD/St. Bernard, he was 140 lbs easy. He was about 14 when I had my son and he did not like kids. He was a grumpy old man. Anyway when my son was about 9 months old he decided to crawl out of his crib, over a gate, and up about 20 stairs. Did I expect him to do this? Nope, I was on the third level cleaning and thinking my son was still napping. Imagine my surprise when I came into the room and my son was sitting next to, hitting him(like bouncing up and down and happy) and laughing with a now 15 year old grumpy GSD/St Bernard that did not like kids. I could see in the dogs eyes that he was not happy and he was almost pleading with me to get this baby away from him. I slowly approached, talking to the dog, telling him he was a good boy and I swooped up my son. My heart was beating a mile a minute, but that dog never even growled at my son. Of course I could only try to explain to my son that what he did was bad, but he was only 9 months old. All he wanted to do is play with that dog. That is what I call a good dog and that is what I expect from any dog in my home....nothing less.


What would you do if you got one home and it wasn't like that?


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

OUt of my two dogs, Elsa would have acted clearly stressed but not done anything. I think...she loves kids, but a strange kid straddling her head might be testing the limits. But she's an avoider more than a confronter. Medo is also very good with kids...but oh, he DEFINITELY does not like strangers invading his space to that extent. I would absolutely never put him in that situation because it the chances that it would end badly are way too great. He's really not a touchy feely dog with strangers in general, but would not tolerate a stranger randomly straddling him like that. Good or bad, he is who he is. There is a big difference between a stranger (child or not) though and family. I routinely invade my dogs' space and have never been growled or snapped at nor worry that I ever will be. 

Unfortunately, it was the OP's job to make sure the dog never was put in a bad situation. That didn't happen, and it should jsut be a sigh of relief that nothing did. Next time pass up letting the strange kid pet or make sure you are very explicit on how it should be done.


----------



## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

hahaha this thread as gone in so many different directions. first off, simba is 11 months old. secondly, i didnt just stand there and let this kid stand on top of my dog. im not crazy. it happened really fast. the kid was standing there petting simba and then simba leaned forward and sniffed him. the kid then took one or two steps forward and was suddenly over the dog and then immediately simba reacted. it happened in literally 2 or 3 seconds. but the moment that the kid backed off, simba sat and showed absolutely no signs of aggression. he wasnt even focused on the kid. he was just ready to continue his walk.

i didnt just throw him into an overwhelming situation. we live a few blocks from a school and usually walk when school just got out. hes been approached multiple times by kids and has been petted by 5 kids at once. he never once even broke his sit. at home my little sister lays on top of him and wrestles with him and tries to ride him like a horse. he thinks its all fun and games.

also im glad some of you that have dogs that never bite and will listen to commands from anyone and love everyone. but thats not why i got a gsd nor is it the dog i want. i want my dog to be wary of strangers. i want him to bark if a stranger enters the house instead of running towards them with tail wagging. if someone smacked my dog in the face i expect him to fight back and bite instead of run away or take it and "never bite".


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

you and me both, doubt our style of dog is popular here tho.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Please do not let your little sister ride him like a horse. He is not a horse. He deserves respect. And that can be terrible for his growing joints. 

He is eleven months old and getting into his everyone-is-not-a-friend attitude. He is maybe even going through a fear stage. Control his environment better. He does not need to get pets from everyone. It sounds like he recovered ok, but that reaction is not what you want to a non-threatening person. 

Keep working with him, with patience and persistance, in nine years he will be the best dog in the neighborhood.


----------



## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

sometimes things happen in a split second that we are taken off guard. i think the response that your dog has shown is a good reason not to let kids come up to him and pet him. maybe next time he would bite and that makes you liable as his owner. not worth the risk in my opinion.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

OP, seriously: you just posted a video last week showing Simba getting all worked up when you tried to grab the toy. You already said Simba bit your dad. PLEASE be more careful with your puppy. I'm not bashing you, but I'm pretty concerned that some random kid just escaped a nasty bite. 

I don't even allow people to stare at my dogs, let alone climb on them. Maybe my dogs wouldn't mind. Or maybe my dogs would like it. Tough, I guess I'm just a big party pooper in that case.


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Where? Who said it was okay? :thinking:


 Saying things like" he might have stepped on the dogs tail/toes, the kid was making the dog uncomfortable, he should not have straddled the dog" That to me is saying the dog had a reason to lunge at the kid, it was the kids fault, so it was Okay for dog to do what it did.
In the situation about the little girl petting the dog on the head. It was said" he was guarding the food. If he had wanted to bite, he would have bitten her hand off. " 

Any reason that makes it okay to bite or warn or lunge is what I am talking about. Excuses made to excuse the reaction of the dog.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

genetic problems are different. man made issues as you mentioned
probably can be solved with training and socializing. most of the
problems i read hear i think are caused by the lack of training
and socializing. the OP said the boy was straddling his dog and his
dog growled. maybe if the dog was trained by having people straddle
him and step over him he may have reacted differently.



Jack's Dad said:


> Nothing personal but you give that advice all the time. I'm all for socializing and training but there are a lot of dogs that have either genetic issues or man made.
> 
> To imply that socializing and training can pretty much solve most problems can cause more difficulty if new owners don't actually know what is causing their dogs problem.
> I just think on aggression threads people need to be cautious with their advice.
> None of us were there and don't know exactly what happened, nor do we know anything about the dogs genetics.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would not subject any of my dogs to a strange kid, or anyone straddling them. 
Even my vets will get a stink eye from the dogs(and me) if they did that, and vets know better. They'll do sideways approach, with neutral body language. I'm the one that holds my dogs for the vet to do their thing, so the dog isn't fighting a person invading their space. If they need vetting away from me, a muzzle is a good option.

But then, I don't train my dogs to be service dogs...if that were the case, then yes the dog should be use to being stepped over, but still never straddled by someone they don't know. 

Simba tolerated it for as long as he could, luckily he did not bite and only gave a warning.


Jack's Dad said:


> GSDs are a protective breed with a certain amount of aggression being normal. Yes some dogs are like hers and some aren't. You need too know your own dog an what chances you will or won't take.
> I won't let people do quite a few things with my dogs and it's not because I think they will bite them but I'm not 100% sure. To me it's not worth the risk because some stranger wants to straddle my dog. *There is nothing wrong with them I think the are representative of the standard but I'm not going to risk certain things.*
> 
> *Know your dog.*


:thumbup:


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

First of all...I said that the kid might've stepped on the dog because many dogs will automatically react that way if they're in pain. They don't have thumbs...so they will use their mouth to remove the thing causing them pain with their mouth. It was a reason why the dog used his mouth BEFORE giving a warning growl...

For all you that want your dog to take all that abuse from strangers...good for you. I don't want my German Shepherd to accept that kind of handling from strangers. I actually would EXPECT my dog to do something like that if someone decided to sit on his head. At the same time I wouldn't allow someone to sit on his head...

I expect my dog to protect me in certain situations, and I expect to protect my dog in certain situations. This case was HANDLER error. Dog reacted like I'd expect a dog to react...for all you with furniture with a tail...congratulations that anything and anyone can sit on it without it even letting out a sigh.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

how do stop people from staring at your dog? 



Blanketback said:


> OP, seriously: you just posted a video last week showing Simba getting all worked up when you tried to grab the toy. You already said Simba bit your dad. PLEASE be more careful with your puppy. I'm not bashing you, but I'm pretty concerned that some random kid just escaped a nasty bite.
> 
> >>>>> I don't even allow people to stare at my dogs,<<<<<
> 
> let alone climb on them. Maybe my dogs wouldn't mind. Or maybe my dogs would like it. Tough, I guess I'm just a big party pooper in that case.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

doggiedad said:


> how do stop people from staring at your dog?


You move your dog away, so they don't lock eyes.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I say, "Stop staring at my dog." Sometimes I'll add, "Please" but it depends on my mood, since I find it rude and challenging when people stare like that. Now, an admiring glance is a whole different thing, lol. Then I say, "Thank you!"


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> how do stop people from staring at your dog?


You *train* them not to stare.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

You smack them. Oops, where's that delete button??!!


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Where? Who said it was okay? :thinking:


I don't think it was so much that anyone said it was okay. But there were a lot of different reasons being thrown around that excused the behavior as a reaction to the boy's rudeness in touching the dog or perhaps hurting the dog in some way (stepping on a foot or the tail).
Sheilah


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

wyominggrandma said:


> Saying things like" he might have stepped on the dogs tail/toes, the kid was making the dog uncomfortable, he should not have straddled the dog" That to me is saying the dog had a reason to lunge at the kid, it was the kids fault, so it was Okay for dog to do what it did.


That's an interesting interpretation.  You can read anything you like into other people's posts, but I didn't see anyone say anything that I would interpret that way. 



> In the situation about the little girl petting the dog on the head. It was said" he was guarding the food. If he had wanted to bite, he would have bitten her hand off. "


How exactly is that saying that it's okay? I think the point people are trying to make is that when dogs go off "for no reason", there usually IS a reason. That doesn't excuse anything, or make it okay but it does give you a clue about situations you need to be on guard against - if you've got a dog who resource guards food or is uncomfortable with kids climbing on them, or whatever, you hopefully find out the easy way rather than the hard way, and then you make sure you never put them in a situation like that again, where someone could get hurt. 



> Any reason that makes it okay to bite or warn or lunge is what I am talking about. Excuses made to excuse the reaction of the dog.


Again, I think you're totally misreading what people are trying to say. A reason for the behavior is just a reason, it doesn't excuse the behavior.


----------



## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

wyominggrandma said:


> Saying things like" he might have stepped on the dogs tail/toes, the kid was making the dog uncomfortable, he should not have straddled the dog" That to me is saying the dog had a reason to lunge at the kid, it was the kids fault, so it was Okay for dog to do what it did.
> In the situation about the little girl petting the dog on the head. It was said" he was guarding the food. If he had wanted to bite, he would have bitten her hand off. "
> 
> Any reason that makes it okay to bite or warn or lunge is what I am talking about. Excuses made to excuse the reaction of the dog.


I don't think anyone was trying to excuse the reaction; it was an attempt to explain the reaction. OP stated that the dog lunged without warning; IMHO, the only reasons a dog would lunge and 'roar' without warning is if the dog was not only put in a submissive position, but hurt in some way. It doesn't excuse the fact the dog nearly bit a kid, but it could explain why it happened.

I have never seen anyone excuse the aggressive reaction from a dog unless the owner has done something absolutely inexcusable to the dog. I saw a thread many, many pages back where someone hauled off and punched their dog in the head and couldn't figure out why it bit him. If that wasn't a duh moment, I don't know what is. Past that, everyone has not only explained that the reaction was not a good one, but ways to remedy it.

The kid is at fault for being an idiot because he approached an unfamiliar dog in a way that was not safe and doing something that was just stupid...a mistake maybe, but doesn't excuse the fact that it's stupid.

The OP is at fault for not stopping the kid from straddling his dog.

The dog is at fault for attempting to bite the child.

I would not expect, nor put my dog in a position, to be handled like that. It's just not happening. Not with a random stranger, anyways. People he knows and is comfortable with, maybe, but not a stranger. 

I also don't expect my dog to protect me. I am there to protect him and if he steps up and protects me, then more power to him.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't think anyone thinks it's okay for their dog to bite.
I think people want to get to the bottom of it and find out why so that they can prevent it from happening again.


I read these things as explanations, not excuses.


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

If the kid had been straddling the dog, he would not have been able to continue to pet the dog's head as the OP described it. The dog's head would have been under or behind the kid's butt, and fairly inaccessible to petting with his hands at that point.

Being the parent of a middle school aged son, I can see how it looked! My own son loves on our big dogs this way. He stands with their heads kind of buried in his thighs. They lean into him and he ruffles the fur on their head and neck. He wouldn't touch a strange dog this way, but he has been exposed to a lot of strange dogs. 

I can see a kid who is comfortable doing that to his own dogs doing it to the OP's dog. Especially if he was talking about his own dogs while petting.
Sheilah


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The dog is a puppy. A teenager. Nick his nads, do some NILIF, and get a handle on him, or you will probably be on the unhappy side of a lawsuit.


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I looked at the video blanketback mentioned and it's pretty obvious where the problem is.
I feel pretty safe in saying something else will happen with this dog.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> What would you do if you got one home and it wasn't like that?


This is a good question. Honestly, I have had over 100 dogs in and out of my house over many years and I have never had this issue. The only thing that I can say for sure, is that I would do whatever I could do to work with the dog before I would give up on it. And I don't give up easy....


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> I looked at the video blanketback mentioned and it's pretty obvious where the problem is.
> I feel pretty safe in saying something else will happen with this dog.


I just seen this video for the first time. Pretty scary stuff. That crap would never be allowed in my house. I agree with problems down the road if this isn't stopped.


----------



## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

Back to the OP's question, I don't think you have an aggression problem, if this was the first time something liked this happened. Just keep an eye on your dog. Research signs of aggression so you know what to look for. If you see any other sign, get help right away. I think this was a one off. Fiona had one too. I was not paying attention to her (I know, bad me!) and a little boy was teasing her while his mom watched. I heard him say something and as I turned to see what he was talking about, Fiona got up from her sit and barked at him. I immediately talked to her trainer and he said that he has not seen one iota of aggression in her, but if something like that happened again we would need to take corrective measures. Thanks God that neither little boy got bit.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> OP, seriously: you just posted a video last week showing Simba getting all worked up when you tried to grab the toy. You already said Simba bit your dad. PLEASE be more careful with your puppy. I'm not bashing you, but I'm pretty concerned that some random kid just escaped a nasty bite.
> 
> I don't even allow people to stare at my dogs, let alone climb on them. Maybe my dogs wouldn't mind. Or maybe my dogs would like it. Tough, I guess I'm just a big party pooper in that case.



Holy.... you are allowing children to pet/straddle/etc a dog who you already KNOW is having issues? 

Goes back to what I said about people having unreasonable expectations of being bomb proof in a dog they actually know nothing about in terms of temperament. You have a dog who is clearly having stability issues, and then you're shocked when he's unstable in a situation that would make many dogs uncomfortable. You're setting him up for failure. 

Please, please ramp up the NILIF and obedience, and keep people away from him...don't let your sister, strangers, etc climb on him, harass him, etc.


----------



## Arlene/Archer (Mar 7, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> Holy.... you are allowing children to pet/straddle/etc a dog who you already KNOW is having issues?
> 
> Goes back to what I said about people having unreasonable expectations of being bomb proof in a dog they actually know nothing about in terms of temperament. You have a dog who is clearly having stability issues, and then you're shocked when he's unstable in a situation that would make many dogs uncomfortable. You're setting him up for failure.
> 
> Please, please ramp up the NILIF and obedience, and keep people away from him...don't let your sister, strangers, etc climb on him, harass him, etc.


I second or third this. You have a really unstable young dog and it behooves you to protect him and other people from disaster. You already know this is a dog that bites humans, you know this is a dog that reacts, you really need to 'know' your dog better before you have kids/strangers petting him at all.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Cheyanna said:


> Back to the OP's question, I don't think you have an aggression problem, if this was the first time something liked this happened. Just keep an eye on your dog. Research signs of aggression so you know what to look for. If you see any other sign, get help right away. I think this was a one off. Fiona had one too. I was not paying attention to her (I know, bad me!) and a little boy was teasing her while his mom watched. I heard him say something and as I turned to see what he was talking about, Fiona got up from her sit and barked at him. I immediately talked to her trainer and he said that he has not seen one iota of aggression in her, but if something like that happened again we would need to take corrective measures. Thanks God that neither little boy got bit.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes, he does have an aggression problem. OP posted a video about his dog resource guarding and "fixed it" in *two *days. 

The dog has aggression issues and they are not resolved yet. But hey, what do the experienced people on here actually know. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. 

This will not be the first or last incident, if OP continues to go down that road.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Doggone Safe - Home has some good information. 

So many things to be cautious of - with this particular dog, handler, kids...I would definitely back up at this point, find a good, positive based trainer - someone who clicks maybe, someone who looks at relationship at the foundation of the training, prop this dog up with some great, upbeat structure and asking yourself every time - will this set my dog up to be a success? 

I am very used to very non-social dogs and have a social dog here now - it is probably the level of discomfort that people who have always had social dogs have with a dog that is not. Lots of adjusting and learning.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I totally agree with "know your dog".

Dogs are not what they used to be back in the 70's when they all roamed the neighborhood , got along with everyone and everything, 

I don't condone a dog biting especially a kid, but face it, the facts are there are MANY out there that don't like kids, don't want to be straddled, want to be ignored and left alone.

Owners need to smarten up , know what your dog is capable of, they are DOGS, they do NOT think like humans. 

I also agree with Jean about setting dogs up for success! If your not 100% positive about the reaction of your dog, you shouldn't be setting them up for failure because in the end, the dog will pay and maybe the owner to via a law suit.


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> Yes, he does have an aggression problem. OP posted a video about his dog resource guarding and "fixed it" in *two *days.
> 
> The dog has aggression issues and they are not resolved yet. But hey, what do the experienced people on here actually know. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
> 
> This will not be the first or last incident, if OP continues to go down that road.


Love this...............


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

What makes me so angry is the deliberate ignorance that has been popping up all over the place in the last weeks. Every day there is another topic by people and every time I am wondering and asking myself "Where is their common sense? They can't possibly be that stupid?!"

There I said it. 

Topics like that make me angry because it is so unnecessary if people would just use common sense already. 

Common sense means that you don't lay down and kiss a dog on his nose while feeding. 
Common sense means not to have a stranger straddle over your dog 
Common sense means that you do not constantly mess with a dogs food
Common sense means that you do not expect a dog to be able to act like it's a human, because they cannot grasp it!

No matter how much you love your dog, your dog will not stop from being threatened while you mess in his food because they do not know our concept of love. All the dog knows is that you are messing with his food, period!

A dog needs structure. You can love your dog all you want but love will not train your dog, love will not give your dog structure and it won't give him discipline. 
You have to train your dog, give it structure and discipline. 

It doesn't mean that you can't love your dog. But love without structure and discipline is a safe road to disaster and it's really not that hard. I just don't understand where people get those pearls of wisdom from that they MUST mess with the food, that a dog MUST endure everything you put them through. 

Have you ever been in a situation where somebody was standing behind a door and was screaming "BOO!" to make you jump? 

Heck, I jump every frickin time, even when I know someone is behind that door. My sisters loved to play that game. Are you scared of something? Spiders? Bumblebees? Heights?

We all have fears, we all have our issues and so have our dogs! The key is to know what makes our dogs tick and to use a Common Sense approach. 

We all make mistakes and we never stop learning but there is a difference between blatant ignorance and making mistakes. People can't possibly be that stupid that they feel the need to set their dogs up for constant failure. 
Setting them up once because you just don't know better, I can see that. But once you were told what is going on and then continuing to set the dog up for failure that is just blatant ignorance and stupidity! 

I can't even open read most of the topics anymore because it makes me so angry to see the same stupidity over and over and over again. 
For the past two weeks it's been the same issue, same problems and people created their own dogs. They turn them into resource guarders and are continued to be told "You should be able to do this and that." 

My answer is, NO! You shouldn't!

I should be able to mess with my husbands food and I probably could but not without him looking at me and saying "Stop it, will ya stop it already?!" 

Dogs can't tell us "WTEFF are you doing?" 
Dogs give us signals. That is them saying "What the heck?" and then they give a growl "HEY! Will you stop it already?" and if that doesn't work, they will bite which basically is like my husband slapping my hand out of his plate. 

There are just things you don't do. You don't do them with your husband/wife/child and you shouldn't do them with your dog. 

IF you practice common sense you will be able to take the food away any time you have straddle over your dog.. and if you can't grasp that concept, do your dog a favor, get a stuffed animal or robodog.  :angryfire:


----------



## EquusAmor (Apr 2, 2013)

Mrs.K said:


> What makes me so angry is the deliberate ignorance that has been popping up all over the place in the last weeks. Every day there is another topic by people and every time I am wondering and asking myself "Where is their common sense? They can't possibly be that stupid?!"
> 
> There I said it.
> 
> ...


 
:happyboogie:I applaud you!


----------

