# 4 month old puppy with chronic diarrhea



## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Hello, and thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions anyone might have. Since this is my first post, let me provide a brief introduction. My boyfriend and I, after over a year of research, purchased an 8 week old german shepherd puppy from a very reputable breeder. Everything was fine for the first 2 weeks.

Then the diarrhea started. I work at a vet hospital and consider myself somewhat knowledgeable about the typical stuff. We took him in to the vet the first day of diarrhea. Negative parvo test, normal bw, but a high fever. He was given fluids, injectable antibiotics, and sent home. His fever went away that night, and has not been an issue since.

The diarrhea, on the other hand, has not gone away. He's now been on metronidazole almost consistently for 2 months. It is the only thing that seems to provide any relief. After switching to a chicken diet, which he wouldn't eat, we put him on EN, and he's been eating that for over a month. It doesn't help at all. As long as he's on the metronidazole, his stool is mostly normal. As soon as we stop though, it comes back within a day.

We've done 3 fecals, a fecal culture, several giardia tests, and more bloodwork. Everything is coming out normal. He's right about 40 pounds, his coat looks great, and his activity level is off the chart. Apart from the diarrhea, there doesn't seem to be any other problems.

We have an appointment with an internist for a consult on Tuesday. We'll possibly do an ultrasound and/or a scope, if he recommends it. 

We have spent thousands of dollars on this dog, first in his purchase price, and now in all of his vet bills. We have no issue spending the money, but we desperately want to get him healthy. 

Does anyone have any suggestions for other things we can try? Thanks so much, and please let me know if there's any additional information that would be helpful!


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## Maximus_NSX (Dec 8, 2008)

Have they tested for Giardia or Coccidia? Oops, I just read that you have. What kind of Giardia test was it? I hear there's a few different types.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Yes, three times. I think they've run every fecal test they can run. We've had over $500 dollars worth of tests done on his poop. They even ran a culture and there was no significant findings.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

My vet ran just the typical fecal ova, parasites, and giardia test, but then we also ran the ELISA giardia test just to confirm.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Is it a pudding poo or watery liquid? I would look at the diet. If the tests are all coming back with normal results, your pup may need digestive enzymes, probiotics to get the flora back to normal. Get off the drugs for a bit and rest the system, bland diet. I am no vet tech, but common sense tells me the gut may just need some adjusting. I would suggest a raw diet just to see if this may help, but you wouldn't see immediate results/ his tract is probably raw itself! So cooked ground beef/rinsed well& rice, maybe pumpkin and probiotics for a few days?


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

We actually did a 2 week course of probiotics, early on, and they made no difference. I'm definitely up for trying them again. Is there a particular brand you recommend? 

We also just bought SeaMeal (?) by Solid Gold, to see if that helps at all. We started that last night. Given that his food has been EN for so long, we figured a little extra supplement wouldn't hurt. 

Thanks for your suggestions! =) We will try anything to get this poor guy's tummy back to normal. It's been a frustrating couple of months!


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

is he on puppy food? maybe its to rich for him and you should get him on adult food. if everything has been checked out, worms, intestinal issues, etc. the food change may do it.....


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

He's on Purina EN, which is an easily digested prescription food. We had him on puppy food for the first couple weeks, but when the diarrhea started, he hasn't been on it since.

I'm thinking we may try one of Wellness' allergy diets with the limited ingredients, to see if that helps at all. It definitely can't make things any worse right now. =)

I've been doing a lot of reading on EPI, but I haven't been able to find any info on its diagnosis in puppies. Are puppies ever diagnosed, or is it always later onset?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would go with a bland diet for a week or so, see if things change. Your appt w/ internist will be helpful, but I am not sure they will even look at the diet. In your practice, do the vets know very much about nutrition? 
My opinion is NO puppy food, go to an adult blend, and no corn or chx, maybe a lamb & rice. There are alot of opinions on kibble and many threads here in the nutrition section. I feed raw, so my opinion on kibble is not relavant. I agree with the richness of the food, or overfeeding, causing pudding poo's. And if I overfeed w/ raw, it gets runny.


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## Calember (Jan 11, 2009)

I was going to ask about EPI - I know of a Shepherd that had the same symptoms for months and months as a pup - tests were inconclusive until he was about 8 months old and it did turn out to be EPI - there are some good EPI forums out there. Perhaps join one and ask questions. EPI is treatable but can be costly.

There is a lot of talk on some groups that dogs on a raw diet can help with this type of symptom also. That maybe something that you want to research as well.

Hope that you get to the bottom of the problem soon for both you and the pup. It is always sad when a pup has issues.

Has your vet given you any idea what he or she suspects it could be that is causing this?


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlI would go with a bland diet for a week or so, see if things change. Your appt w/ internist will be helpful, but I am not sure they will even look at the diet. In your practice, do the vets know very much about nutrition?
> My opinion is NO puppy food, go to an adult blend, and no corn or chx, maybe a lamb & rice. There are alot of opinions on kibble and many threads here in the nutrition section. I feed raw, so my opinion on kibble is not relavant. I agree with the richness of the food, or overfeeding, causing pudding poo's. And if I overfeed w/ raw, it gets runny.


The EN is a bland diet - and when we tried to feed chicken and rice, he refused to eat. He also was on Hills I/D early on, and that didn't help either.

We will definitely consider raw, but I had done some research that seemed to indicate that puppies can sometimes have trouble digesting raw diets, and that it's often better to wait until they're a little older to start feeding.

The vets I work for know the basics about nutrition, but I don't think that they have much more knowledge beyond that. The owner though has been involved with shepherds for years, so she does have a good amount of knowledge on their particularities.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

I've done a lot of research, but I haven't read any of the forums. I'll have to look into that. My vet seems convinced that EPI is not the root of the problem, because of the fact that he seems so healthy otherwise. She doesn't have any ideas at this point what's going on though, so that's been frustrating. That's why she referred us to the internist, who she has worked with for years, and is a very good diagnostician. We're hoping he might have some new ideas.

Luckily, Jones is such a happy and energetic puppy. That makes me feel a little better that we're taking so dang long to figure out what's wrong with him. It's not for lack of trying though!



> Originally Posted By: CalemberI was going to ask about EPI - I know of a Shepherd that had the same symptoms for months and months as a pup - tests were inconclusive until he was about 8 months old and it did turn out to be EPI - there are some good EPI forums out there. Perhaps join one and ask questions. EPI is treatable but can be costly.
> 
> There is a lot of talk on some groups that dogs on a raw diet can help with this type of symptom also. That maybe something that you want to research as well.
> 
> ...


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## caview (Jun 30, 2008)

I don't have any recommendations but just want to say how very sorry I am!

Our pupster is 4.5 months, and my heart goes out for what he and you are going through!

You'll do anything to keep them happy and healthy!

I'll be praying for him!

Tanya


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Thank you so much for your sweet thoughts! =) 

We really would do anything if we could fix what's going on, so it's been so frustrating to not be able to find anything that helps. =( 



> Originally Posted By: caviewI don't have any recommendations but just want to say how very sorry I am!
> 
> Our pupster is 4.5 months, and my heart goes out for what he and you are going through!
> 
> ...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

http://www.flintriver.com/Probiotics-Overview.htm
I don't give powderd probiotics, just a natural yogurt w/ active cultures and fresh green tripe which has natural digestive enzymes and probiotics. http://www.greentripe.com/ I get mine from http://www.aplaceforpaws.com as I am located nearer than the first link I posted.
I just read that a goat yogurt may be better, as cow's milk is hard to digest for some dogs. But a spoonfull of yogurt per feeding is beneficial


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlhttp://www.flintriver.com/Probiotics-Overview.htm
> I don't give powderd probiotics, just a natural yogurt w/ active cultures and fresh green tripe which has natural digestive enzymes and probiotics. http://www.greentripe.com/ I get mine from http://www.aplaceforpaws.com as I am located nearer than the first link I posted.
> I just read that a goat yogurt may be better, as cow's milk is hard to digest for some dogs. But a spoonfull of yogurt per feeding is beneficial


Thanks so much for the information! I'll do some looking around, and see what I can find. Even if probiotics don't solve this problem, I know that they're good for him.


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## Puddincat (Dec 14, 2008)

Change the diet to a higher quality food after a week or so on a bland diet. Sorry to hear about your puppy!! Hope he feels better soon!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

You could always try digestive enzymes, if they help, then most likely you're looking at 
EPI. I wouldn't trust the vet intuition on this - too many GSDs on this board tend to break the rules. It is not common on this board to see pups with EPI, but it happens - I was just reading about it in an article last night. 

By bland diet, I would mean a homeprepared diet - no commercial food. If rice and chicken doesn't help it, I would try a different protein. 
And then, as a last resort, I would see if Tylan controls it. I would rather use tylan long term than flagyl.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

I think we're going to switch him back onto a higher quality food, since he seems to have diarrhea no matter what. He wouldn't eat the bland diets that we prepared though, so that doesn't seem to be an option. =(

Is there any reason not to try enzymes without a diagnosis of EPI? Any potential side effects? 

We'll definitely talk to the internist about Tylan, and about EPI.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

There is a sticky on probiotics, and there maybe some EPI threads imbedded in it. The sticky is in this forum. I would get some green tripe and try it. Can't hurt and you have a source of it in your state. There are many EPI dogs on this board. Hopefully some of the more knowledgable members will chime in. Jones(love his name!)weight is good, which makes me think it may not be EPI.
http://www.google.com/search?q=EPI+in+do...ex=&startPage=1


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlThere is a sticky on probiotics, and there maybe some EPI threads imbedded in it. The sticky is in this forum. I would get some green tripe and try it. Can't hurt and you have a source of it in your state. There are many EPI dogs on this board. Hopefully some of the more knowledgable members will chime in. Your dogs weight is good, which makes me think it may not be EPI.


Excellent, I'll definitely read the sticky on probiotics. =)

Is green tripe something you order online? I must admit, I'm totally clueless about that. 

And my vet keeps saying that his weight wouldn't be as good if it was EPI, but I'm just worried that we're in the early stages of it and it just hasn't progressed. 

I think working in a vet hospital dooms a person to always having pets with weird problems and chronic conditions! =)


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Yes, in my area anyway I can only order the green tripe from the internet. You can get canned, but to me I would rather go w/ fresh/frozen and make sure the natural enzymes are active. I only feed a heeping spoonful per feeding so if you get some it will stretch out. It stinks like a barnyard, and the dogs love it or hate it. If your pup doesn't like it then I would maybe give it in a frozen meatball form or mix it w/ raw egg. Wow, overwhelming info in the last hour for you. I hope tomorrow Jones has a firm poop and you can focus on the fun things in sharing your life with a GSD! I suggest starting another thread with the title EPI pup? and you may get more exposure, link this thread to your OP. We have lots of q's on poop!!!


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlYes, in my area anyway I can only order the green tripe from the internet. You can get canned, but to me I would rather go w/ fresh/frozen and make sure the natural enzymes are active. I only feed a heeping spoonful per feeding so if you get some it will stretch out. It stinks like a barnyard, and the dogs love it or hate it. If your pup doesn't like it then I would maybe give it in a frozen meatball form or mix it w/ raw egg. Wow, overwhelming info in the last hour for you. I hope tomorrow Jones has a firm poop and you can focus on the fun things in sharing your life with a GSD!


Hahaha...it is all a bit overwhelming! There is so much information out there, it's hard to know where to start. And while I've had dogs my entire life, he is my first shepherd, so that has been a big transition. He's been a hellbeast (as my boyfriend affectionately refers to him). =)

And we do try to make sure that he is having lots of fun, despite his tummy problems. Lots of trips to Petco, off leash hiking, puppy classes, and every toy his little heart could possibly desire. =)


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Try substituting sweet potatoes and potatoes and oatmeal for the rice. 

Be sure to double cook any grain you use (twice as much water and cook for twice as long. 

I puree the chicken. You can also add in an egg or two as the mixture is cooling (I put everything together) and that will give additional flavor and help bind things. If you can find the tripe I'm sure that will get your dog going with the homemade food. They love it! 

I am able to get tripe locally here. It comes in a can. I know Solid Gold makes it and a couple of other companies do too. I would avoid yogurt while he has diarrhea because that can make the problem worse. Honestly, 1 tsp. of yogurt will have very little benefit. 

I would also try digestive enzymes and some of the things that beneficial to healing the gut. This is my favorite on line store for that sort of thing:

http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?searchterms=diarrhea&mf=0

The GI support is excellent. The Vetri-Science fast balance works as well as Metro (and the VetriScience Acetylator also looks good) and the Homeopet Digestive Upsets works better than metro and has no side effects. Take a look around there and read the reviews. 

Have you tried going grain free with your dog in case it's a grain allergy? Feeding a homemade diet without grains would be a good way to tell if that is the problem.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

The reason we all have such detailed advice is because gsds have notoriously bad digestive systems. When I adopted my first gsd puppy 22 years ago I went through the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

What color is the poop? If it is a yellowy tan he probably has coccidia which is very common in San Diego! I just had two fosters who stool was great, went to another foster home and within a week had the runs. The only thing that will clear up the coccidia is Albon. I would suggest just trying it since it can be hard to diagnose.

You can buy green tripe from Green Tripe.com They are in California and their products are great. There are several raw resources in San Diego, Dexters Deli sells a variety of ground products, SoCal Barf is a group where you can join and order food monthly, and there are a couple Food wholesale places that you can buy cases of food cheap.

I have weaned all my litters on raw, switched dogs and raised a lot of puppies on a raw diet. There are several good books that can give you good information on feeding a balanced diet. I would recommend ordering some of the green tripe products and adding them to his diet. There is also a product call Prozyme which is an enzyme which can help get their digestive tract working correctly again. I have adopted a couple dogs in the past with horrible diarrhea that this helped along with getting the correct medications to knock out the parasites.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

The main disadvantage of trying the enzymes without the test is that I think it screws up the test a bit. If you tested for EPI, I would withhold the enzymes for longer than the EPI test requires the fast for. 

There are a many dogs on the list that use the tylan, my GSD didn't get better on it, but he responded very well to doxy (no chance of tick disease?). Othere dogs here have used tetracycline and also amoxicillin. My mixed breed had weird issues and panacur seemed to help her. 

Btw, both of my dogs reacted to flagyl, and it paralyzed my girl after she had been on it for a month with no apparent problems. I'm a bit gunshy with that med 

. 
I also think that flagyl can encourage a "nervous stomach" because it can put the nervous system in an altered state.


Acupuncture really helps with digestive issues.

I wouldn't try raw until you get this under control, but there are others that would disagree with me, some with first hand experience.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks so much everyone for the detailed responses! I appreciate it so very much! 

We have tried him on a grain free diet, and that didn't seem to make any difference, unfortunately. 

Green tripe sounds like an excellent thing to supplement with, even after we get this tummy problem cleared up. Being a vegetarian though, I'll probably make my boyfriend handle that stuff. =)

We were talking about it tonight, and I think we're just going to keep things pretty constant until his appointment on Tuesday. We've got things pretty stable right now, and he's been living with this for the past 7 or 8 weeks, so another couple days shouldn't be a big deal. We want to be able to give the internist a clear account of what has been going on.

As far as coccidia goes, I was under the impression that it would show up in a fecal. Maybe I'm wrong? I would LOVE for it to be something that simple! We treated with panacur already, just to cover our bases - but I think that was in case he had giardia. I don't know that it would treat coccidia.

We are quickly learning that GI problems seem to be the norm, not the exception, for shepherds. =(


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Come to think of it, my mixed breed, when she had pancreatitis and chronic loose stools, didn't get better until we used panacur AND Albon. Nothing in the fecal at the time. 

Keep us posted on how things are going.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Hmmm...that's interesting. I'll mention that to the doctor on Tuesday. Maybe he'll have us try using both. 

I'll definitely keep you guys posted. You've been an excellent source of information!


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

If there's one thing this board really knows it's GSD poop!









How long did you have him on a grain free food and what was the protein? I ask because it seems like a lot of GSDs have problems with chicken for some reason. We do venison and sweet potato with our guys and it has worked wonders. If I only had one dog, I really like the idea of home cooking though. As it is with such a pack, we go with the convenience of Natural Balance.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

The grain free food was Nature's Variety Instinct. I bought it because I thought chicken was supposed to be easy to digest. Guess I was way off base. =) 

I like the idea of cooking for him too, but I am just worried it would be too hard to leave for the weekend occasionally - he's already so much work, I can't imagine asking someone else to cook for him too! =)

We have white fish and sweet potato food by Wellness that we're going to try after his doctor's visit, assuming he says that's ok. He's eating the cookies now and loves them!


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

I also want to mention overfeeding is probably one of the major causes of diarrhea and one no one brings up. It definately should be considered especially with a pup. It is a slippery slope - the gut gets kicked up to many notches and you keep adding more food and the cycle repeats. I would try reducing the amount of food you are feeding your dog and see if this makes a difference.

Coccidia can show up in a stool sample, but is very hard to detect sometimes. I can tell by the color, consistency and smell if a dog has coccidia. Albon is the only thing that will knock it out.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't think we're overfeeding. And he's very lean. I would be worried that if we cut his food he would be too thin. We are still feeding him three meals a day too, he he doesn't get as much food at a time.

Another vote for coccidia, interesting! His poop is yellowish and looks like a cow patty when he's not on the metronidazole. Maybe that is the culprit...I would love for it to be! =)


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## Jake's Mom (Nov 27, 2008)

Jake had very similar symptoms. We ended up seeing a specialist who believed he was allergic to chicken. We removed all chicken/poultry products from his diet and within just a few days he was doing much better. No more soft poops.

It can't hurt to eliminate the normal protein source and try a new one.


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## Calember (Jan 11, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: PuffinGirlI've done a lot of research, but I haven't read any of the forums. I'll have to look into that. My vet seems convinced that EPI is not the root of the problem, because of the fact that he seems so healthy otherwise. She doesn't have any ideas at this point what's going on though, so that's been frustrating. That's why she referred us to the internist, who she has worked with for years, and is a very good diagnostician. We're hoping he might have some new ideas.



I am sure that you have probably found this site but it was quite informational: http://www.entirelypets.com/expaine.html

Maybe you are dealing with PAA and not EPI as it seems to effect younger dogs. Although PAA will eventually turn into EPI if I read the site correctly. 

Something to discuss with your vet or the internist. Hopefully you get to the bottom of it soon. Best of luck.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Possible allergies will definitely be something I discuss with the doctor. I'm going to have to start making a list! 

Thanks again for all the wonderful suggestions and information!


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

Over feeding can be as little as 1/8 of a cup too much. He is old enough to eat twice a day, maybe the fact he always has food in his system is part of the problem. 

If the poops smell bad then I would bet coccidia is what is causing the loose stool.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Wow, I didn't realize that such a small amount could make a difference. We will switch to feeding him twice a day - I'd been thinking about doing it soon anyway. I'm just so worried about letting his weight drop. I want to make sure he doesn't get too skinny. He's already so lean.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

You have some great information in this thread. 

I will throw in my experience with Cheyenne. As a pup she had diarrhea. We tried different kibbles, we tested and tested and tested. Finally I decided that I needed to try some things and think out of the box from what the Vet's were telling me.

I picked a simple home cooked diet, I used beef because we have a steer butchered every year and I know the meat is hormone free. I used rice and it worked for her, but I have other dogs that when they need a bland diet potato works better for. So I boiled and rinsed the ground beef, needed to make sure there was NO fat. I did over cook the rice. I mixed the two together and if I was going to be gone I made bigger batches and froze it. I figured with a simple diet even if it wasn't balanced if the diarrhea stooped she was getting more from the food than feeding kibble and having it race through her system like a run away freight train. We the stools firmed up and she gained weight on beef and rice. Eventually I found a kibble that worked for her but I have to tell you it was not easy. I tried at least 6 different kibbles with different protein sources and the Diarrhea was immediate and explosive. So back to beef and rice, get the system stabilized and running well and try another one. My DH wasn't always supportive about trying another kibble. 

With Probioitics if the system is that far out of balance a few weeks isn't going to fix the problem. I have two dogs in my house that are on Probioitics every day to keep their systems in balance and working good.

You might even have to look at potato and fish or duck and something. Try a novel protein. The thing I will say is try to keep it very very simple at first then you can start adding things IF you get the pup stable.

Val


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences with Cheyenne! 

If the internist doesn't feel that there is some underlying condition, then we'll start experimenting with the foods a bit more. Besides the prescription diet, the other foods we've had him on have all had different protein sources and have all been high quality foods. Frustrating, to say the least. =)


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

There is a possibility that it isn't a protein source. It could be something that is common in all of the foods a preservative, etc. Actually with Cheyenne I think a lot of it was letting her gut heal. Long bouts of Diahrrea cause a lot of irritation in the whole digestive tract. Also several small meals works much better, also room temp to warm food has less stress on the digestive system than something that came out of the refrigerator.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerThere is a possibility that it isn't a protein source. It could be something that is common in all of the foods a preservative, etc. Actually with Cheyenne I think a lot of it was letting her gut heal. Long bouts of Diahrrea cause a lot of irritation in the whole digestive tract. Also several small meals works much better, also room temp to warm food has less stress on the digestive system than something that came out of the refrigerator.


Hmmm...that's something to consider. My vet also thinks that he had some sort of virus going on in the very beginning, and it just wiped his system out and is taking a long time to heal. I just don't think it should be taking this long. =(

As far as the temp of the food goes, I hadn't even thought about that. I think most of his food is being served room temp as it is, but we can start paying attention to that.

One thing my vet had thrown out there was giving him barium, and seeing if that helped. i guess it's magic for some dogs.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

I thought I'd post a quick update about our visit to the internist yesterday. The doctor shot a couple xrays just to make sure there were no diaphragmatic hernias/internal abnormalities that we hadn't caught before. He also did a fecal smear (another one!) just so he could see for himself that there was nothing weird there. Everything came back totally normal, so that was good. He did switch him from metronidazole, and put him on a 5 day course of zithromax, on the off chance that might help. Here's hoping... =)

The next step is a TLI test, which we're having done Thursday morning at my hospital to save a little money. We'll be fasting him for 12 hours before hand. Does anybody have any experiences with Antech running the test - do you normally get results next-day?

If the TLI comes back negative for EPI, then he suggested we start working our way through diets to see if we could find something that would work for him. He even said that he's seen several shepherds that don't do well on anything other than raw diets. We're not opposed to switching him to raw, but we'll probably stick with pre-prepared raw diets for convenience.

I've also ordered some probiotics to put him on, which I figure will be good for him, whatever the diagnosis turns out to be.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Probioitics are good.

For diet you need to do one protein/one carb and nothing else. If htat works then you can add one thing at a time like a Vetable. So since I didn't review all the posts, did all of the foods you tried before have a common protein. What proteins have you tried?

Val


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

We've done several different foods. Started him on Solid Gold Wolf King which is buffalo based. Then we put him on Nature's Variety Instinct, which is chicken. Then he was on EN which is turkey. And he was last on Wellness White Fish and Sweet Potato. He's had diarrhea on all of them. We put him back on EN just because it's supposedly easier to digest and his diarrhea seemed to be not quite so bad.

I'm not sure what food we're going to try from here on out...


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I assume they've done the Giardia Antigen and not the 'regular' Giardia fecal?

Another thing I found with Dante is that he needed to be fed 3x a day for a looooooooooooooong time!!


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Yep, they've done them both. =)

We've been feeding Jones three times a day (when he will eat). Most of the time though he only eats part of lunch and all his dinner.


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

I found with feeding both wolf king and Natures Variety, even a small amount of over feeding caused soft poop. I had a litter of foster pups who ate wolf king and if I gave them even a little over 3/4 of a cup when they were small, they poops went to mush, when I cut back poops firm up. Both are pretty high calorie foods.

How much are you feeding per meal?


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Right now he's not even eating all of his meals, except for dinner. He mostly picks at breakfast and lunch, so I don't think there's any way he is getting too much then. Dinner right now is a can and a half of Purina EN and about a cup of food.

He's definitely on the skinny side, so I really don't want to not give him enough to eat. I'm so worried that all this diarrhea is going to have long term effects on his development. =(


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

> Quote: Everything is coming out normal. He's right about 40 pounds, his coat looks great, and his activity level is off the chart. Apart from the diarrhea, there doesn't seem to be any other problems.


how does his weight & growth compare to his littermates (& more distant sibs if there are any)?
This really does sound more like allergy/intolerance than illness (parasites, virus etc).





> Quote:My vet also thinks that he had some sort of virus going on in the very beginning, and it just wiped his system out and is taking a long time to heal. I just don't think it should be taking this long.


Personal anecdotes here, ie human, 6-12 months to recover from a severe intestinal virus is 'normal' (yup, nothing but diarhea for 6 months, then slowly diminishing over the next 6 months)

Coccidia/Giardia can just tick along for months, especially if there are other digestive issues (allergies etc) that keep the gut nice & irritated & the immune system otherwise occuppied ... at this level, negative fecals are usual.
Like Giardia, Coccida is not directly treatable, instead drugs are given that slow down the proliferation of the parasites, hopefully allowing the immune system a chance to recover & then "eradicate" the G/C. Do read up on the life cycle of both of these - granted, both will cause nasty smelling poop if the degree of infection is high but some dogs have relatively OK smelling poops (not every BM is completely fluid (nothing explosive) & the small amount of bloody mucous is easily overlooked) as long as parasite levels are not overwhelming.

How does your pup smell?

btw any pics?

He's obviously not enthusiatic about his food & in dogs (& fish) this worries me ie something is _ not right _ in his world.
I'd forget the kibble/canned & go with raw - pre-made is just as convenient as canned & you should be able to get single protein with NO ADDITIVES. Start with natural, free range etc - it may be up to double the price of the cheapest pre-made raw, but would allow you to test his tolerances much more clearly.
Get someone on-board with you, eg, vet, specialty pet shop (definately not all are equal), forum etc: I settled on a terrific shop as they were right there when I was purchasing & our foster dog (Hank) could actually stand in the shop without being in full panic mode!
Don't start with Tripe or Organ Meats as these may easily trigger diarrhea in sensitive dogs. 
Don't add in any probiotics or pumpkin etc until you start to see results on the singular diet.

Hank was unable to tolerate any rice, yoghurt, pumpkin, formulated enzyme mixes etc; more than a couple of treats & he vomitted ... but he did actually love his food, picture _Gone In 60sec_ - even though his solid poops remained something to be celebrated









If your pup has significant allergies to his previous foods, it may take up to 3months for the effects to completely clear (ie digestive upset, sensitive stomach etc).


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Last I checked with the breeder, his weight was right on track, so that made me feel better.

My vet, that I worked for, did say that it could take a very long for him to recover from a virus. I guess my concern is that I don't want us to think he just had a virus, and miss some underlying condition. I think that once (if) we rule out EPI, I'll feel a little more comfortable experimenting with his food. I think the first thing we'll try is raw, and see how he does on it. Do you have any particular brands you recommend?

I would love to post some pictures of him...but I'll have to get the boyfriend to help with that as I'm completely technologically unsavvy!

Hmmm...as to how he smells, I think it's mostly of dirty puppy who's spent the last three days at the dog park. =) I haven't noticed any unusual smell from him, other than his anal glands which have been filling up quickly. Never a pleasant smell!

It bothers me too that he isn't excited about his food. He did just scarf down a couple cups of dinner though, so that made me feel better. He seems to be a nighttime eater.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

It's great that his weight/growth seems to be on track











> Quoteo you have any particular brands you recommend?


Sorry I'm in Canada & the foods I buy are all local: the shop owner wanted to be able to personally inspect the suppliers, so they are all within a couple hours. 



> Quote:He seems to be a nighttime eater.


I wonder though if he is just so hungry by then, that he's less resistant ... do you ever listen to his tummy throughout the day (have the vets mentioned anything about his gut sounds/motility?)
Or maybe he's learned that eating at night, he feels better in the day (assuming he sleeps through the night - easier to sleep at night with an upset tummy than run/play with an upset tummy).

Have you considered any of the Dehydrated foods - some dogs do very well on these; if you want to supplement a raw diet, I would sooner do it with this rather than traditional kibble. There are some that offer novel proteins as well if allergies turn out to be the issue & it would certainly be easier for you than handling raw meat (I think you mentioned being a vegetarian).
I suspect this is likely the most expensive option.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

I've paid attention to his stomach during the day, and I haven't noticed it making any noise. The vets haven't ever said anything about gut sounds either, but the internist yesterday did say that his intestines felt ropey - not sure what that means.

I actually have considered the dehydrated foods, I just didn't know if it was a good option to consider. That seems like it would be a great thing to supplement raw with though, so I'll definitely look into some more. thanks for the links!

As far as raw meat goes, I would definitely like to avoid handling it too much, if at all possible. I don't have any problems with people (and animals) eating it around me, but chopping it up and preparing it is a little different. =)


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Can you borrow a stethascope - sorry that was the soiund level I was thinking of









If you go with pre-made raw, it's usually the texture of ground beef so you do need to feed raw bones for teeth health - course you'd want to address this issue wih the dehydrated as well: you can give the bones frozen in the crate though


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Ooops. =) No, I haven't listened that closely at home. =) He has been at the vet about 10 times already, and they do listen, and I don't think there's been anything noteworthy.

Frozen bones I can do, as long as I don't have to do much to them. That will be a great way to keep him busy in his crate!


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

My only thought is that dehydrated foods tend to have more ingredients than just chicken, beef, etc. So, if you are wanting to eliminate any dietary issues you would want to stick with only one or two food items at a time. If going raw, you would want to pick one protein source and feed just that for 3-4 weeks and see how he does. Make sure to check all the packages of any pre-made raw foods you buy because many contain veggies and other supplements.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Man, I'm overwhelmed. I don't even know where to start if the TLI comes back negative. There's so much information out there, and so much of it conflicts. And I'm at the point where I just want to make him better as quickly as possible, which I fully recognize is not realistic. 

Whew...thanks for letting me vent a bit. I'm pulling out my hair here...


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Try some Keopectate, Pepto or Imodium. Find a kibble with 2 main ingrediants - Natural Balance has Limited Ingrediant Diets. Stay away from corn, soy, wheat, dye, etc. Add salmon oil to the kibble. Feed several small meals throughout the day. And keep the liquids in him. Also, get off the flagyl - I hate it. If it is Giardia - use panacur. If coccidia - use Albon. You also need to add the good stuff back in his digestive track. The antibiotic has killed it off. Suppliment with probotics/enzymes


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

We did use Imodium early on, and it worked great. But as soon as it was out of his system he was back to diarrhea. 

We're waiting on the results of the TLI and we're going to go from there, I think. It's going to be a couple antsy days.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I sure hope you find the issue soon, I've been in your shoes and it's h-e-doublehockeystick!

Of course for Dante it turned out to be Giardia (two regular fecals came back negative, antigen came back positive) and it took two rounds of antiboitics to get rid of it....but it was a long long long road.

Every day now when I pick up after him I'm thankful for his "normal" poops!


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm envious of your dog's normal poops! =)

It has indeed been a long road. Thank goodness it doesn't seem to be getting him down. =)


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Pepto also has some anti-inflammatory action, which can be helpful. If a dog has the mdr1 genetic mutation, immodium shouldn't be given. However, I think this mutation non-white GSDs is pretty rare.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Do you know the dosage of pepto, and how often it can be given?


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

do a search for "home remedies for dogs". Someone has a list of over-the-counter "people" products that can be used for dogs. Pepto should be listed.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

If by chance it is Giardia, use Panacur - not flagyl which is only 60% effective for Giardia and has nasty side effects. Panacur for 5 days will usually clean them out. For chornic Giardia, you may have to treat every other month with Panacur.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Or order drontal online

Drontal is the ONLY Allwormer registered to control Giardia sp in dogs. Giardia is a protozoan parasite found commonly in dogs and is frequently a cause of diarrhoea in puppies. Drontal should be administered at the correct dosage for body weight for 3 consecutive days.
It is important that Giardia has been correctly diagnosed by a veterinarian.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

We're 99.9% positive it's not giardia. We've done 3 of the regular tests, and then the ELISA Giardia test. We had also done a course of Panacur, just to be on the safe side. 

I'll also do a search and see what I can find about pepto. Thank you! =)


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

True, Drontal is labeled but recent studies show that Panacur is more effective.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Look at this link

http://www.geocities.com/petsburgh/Zoo/1224/diarrhea.html


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Have they ruled out Coccidia?


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

do you have a link to the study?

as I'm curious as to the difference between the active ing. in drontal raziquantel/pyrantel pamoate/febantel and reg. fenbendazole as their in the same classification of drugs.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

As for ruling out coccidia, I'm assuming they have, with all the fecal tests they've run. We haven't done a course of Albon though. If the TLI comes back negative, I plan on asking the internist about doing a course of Albon just in case.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

If it's cocci, you can do albon for 10 days or ask your vet about Ponazuril , one dose, done.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Hmmm...I haven't heard of the second med, might be something they'd have to special order for me. 

How exactly do they test for coccidia? Would it show up on one of the many fecals I've had done?


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I'll try to find a link to the study for you Angelea. It is out of Canada I think ... 

Never heard of the coccidia med, but have used Albon with great results for coccidia. Is it new?


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Puffin, Cocci can be hard to miss on a fecal but that's how it's found

Doc, the medicine is newer. My vet didn't use albon but reg. tablets, then last year I heard the vet tech talking to someone about it and I asked. It's a one dose, but you have to have exact weights on the dog for dispensing doses.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm still looking but this may be the study.

Zajac, AM; LaBranche, TP; Donoghue, AR; Chu, Teng-Chiao. Efficacy of fenbendazole in the treatment of experimental Giardia infection in dogs. American Journal of Veterinary Research. 1998;59(1):61-63.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

From searching for the study:
OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the efficacy of fenbendazole as a treatment for Giardia sp. ANIMALS: 10 male and 10 female commercial-source Beagles. PROCEDURE: The experiment was conducted in 2 replicates. Dogs considered free of Giardia infection on the basis of results of 3 consecutive negative fecal examinations were experimentally infected with approximately 1,000 Giardia cysts isolated from dog feces. After verification of infection, the dogs were allocated to 2 groups (treated and untreated) and were housed in separate rooms. Treated dogs received 50 mg of fenbendazole/kg of body weight, p.o., daily, for 3 days. After treatment on the third day, treated dogs were removed from their runs, shampooed, rinsed with disinfectant, and returned to disinfected runs. Fecal samples were collected from all dogs 12 times during the next 25 days. RESULTS: Giardia cysts were found in the feces of every untreated dog during all or part of the test period. Nine of 10 treated dogs did not have Giardia cysts in any fecal sample examined; the other dog had a positive result on a single sample in the third week after treatment. CONCLUSION AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Fenbendazole, at the nematocidal label dosage, is an effective drug for treatment of Giardia infection in dogs.

so that was a 3 day treatment, and I don't see how that's different than febantel

http://www.labor-freiburg.de/info_efficacy_giardia.pdf

Efficacy of a drug combination of praziquantel, pyrantel pamoate, and febantel against giardiasis in dogs.
Barr SC, Bowman DD, Frongillo MF, Joseph SL.

Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate efficacy of a combination of praziquantel, pyrantel pamoate, and febantel at 2 dosages for treating naturally acquired giardiasis in dogs. ANIMALS: 6 male and 9 female Beagles. PROCEDURE: Dogs were identified as naturally infected with Giardia sp, using the zinc sulfate concentration technique (ZSCT), and were allocated to 1 of 3 groups. Group-1 dogs were treated orally with a praziquantel (5.4 to 7 mg/kg of body weight), pyrantel pamoate (26.8 to 35.2 mg/kg), and febantel (26.8 to 35.2 mg/kg) combination, every 24 hours for 3 doses. Group-2 dogs were treated with the combination once. Group-3 dogs were nontreated controls. Four fecal samples were examined, using the ZSCT, from each dog of each group within 6 days of the last treatment. Dogs were considered to have giardiasis if 1 or more of the fecal samples had positive results for Giardia cysts. Dogs were examined daily for at least 10 days after the last treatment. RESULTS: Giardia cysts were not detected in the feces of any group-1 dog or in the feces of 2 of 5 group-2 dogs. Cysts were detected in the feces of 5 of 5 group-3 (nontreated control) dogs. Signs of toxicosis were not observed in any dog. CONCLUSION AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: The current labeled dose (for treatment of various nematodes and cestodes, but not Giardia sp) of the combination given orally once reduces cyst excretion in Giardia-infected dogs, and should be considered for treatment of dogs shedding Giardia cysts, whether or not they have clinical signs of infection.

and

Efficacy of Drontal Flavour Plus (50 mg praziquantel, 144 mg pyrantel embonate, 150 mg febantel per tablet) against Giardia sp in naturally infected dogs.
Montoya A, Dado D, Mateo M, Espinosa C, Miró G.

Departamento de Sanidad Animal, Facultad de Veterinaria, UCM, Avd. Puerta de Hierro s/n, 28040, Madrid, Spain.

The therapeutic efficacy of praziquantel, pyrantel embonate and febantel (Drontal Flavour Plus) for three and five consecutive days was evaluated for treating naturally acquired giardiasis in dogs. In the study, 24 dogs naturally infected with Giardia were divided into three groups of eight dogs each. Dogs were treated at the recommended dosage for three or five consecutive days, and a control group remained untreated. Faecal samples from each dog were submitted to coprological examination from day-4 to -2 and at days 5, 7, 9 and 11. Faecal consistency was also assessed daily to study end. All dogs in the control group remained positive until study end. Giardia cysts were not detected in faeces of six of the eight dogs in the group treated on three consecutive days, and in faeces of five of the dogs in the group treated on five consecutive days. Unformed to diarrhoeic faeces were more often reported in dogs in the untreated control group than in dogs in both treatment groups. Efficacy of treatment for five consecutive days was not statistically better than treatment for three consecutive days.

so looks like either is shorter doable option.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks for the information. I have no experience with the combination drug but it looks like a good one also. I like knowing there are options! I would hate to have resistant strains developed. Maybe rotating the treatment may ward off resistance?


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Just remember these are all only 'stats' & not 'cides' when it comes to Giardia & Coccidia, so if your dog is not 'immune competent', the G & C may persist despite repeat treatments (generally at levels that are likely non-detectable in fecals - tho G SNAP should still 'work').
Treatment is then based upon improving the overall health of the dog & hopefully boosting the immune system so that the G/C is finally 'eradicated' (I suspect that intestinal sampling would reveal that G & C are always present in the gut of otherwise healthy dogs, just numbers are very low due to immune competence).


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

That sounds like what the internist was telling us on Tuesday, and it completely makes sense to me. When he's done with the course of zithromax, we're going to keep him off all meds for a while and just use the probiotics and see if we can get him feeling better just by being patient.

The TLI came back within normal range, so we're not dealing with EPI (which I almost wish we were). I faxed the results to the internist, so we'll see if there's anything else he wants to do, or if he thinks we should try to wait it out and find a diet that works for him.


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

No you don't wish it was EPI - in a dog this young it is almost always a death sentence.

I would bet you are dealing with coccidia, especially since you are in San Diego and we have had a bunch of rains recently. Most of the people I know with pups have been battling this lately. If it were my pup I would treat him for coccidia anyway.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

I know, it's just my frustration speaking. We just want to know what's going on with him. =(

We can give him albon and see if that does anything I suppose. I'll talk to the doctor on staff at work today and see if she'll prescribe it for me.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Hi PuffinGirl

can you do a timeline summary for Jones (I think that's your pup's name) since you got him?
List:
Date/Time/Age 
Food 
Poop Status 
Interventions - food changes, probiotics, vet visits, meds etc
Effect of Intervention - eg, even more liquid pooh, itchy ears, sleepy etc

I'd do this in MS etc so that I could dump it into a graphing program & see if there are any correlations that aren't visible when it's just words. Of course poop etc status is just objective so you need to start rating it as you pick it up







eg, 1-6 with 1 being solid, & 6 being liquid, explosive diarrhea (where dog has no control over when/where & there is a spatter pattern) gets a 10!

A journal like this can visualize trends & possible allergies - I'm surprised if none of the vets have suggested it









Do you have a holistic vet on board? or a 'regular' vet that's intrigued ...

I would not jump into the Albon Tx.


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

I suggest it because I am in San Diego and it is a huge problem here, especially it seems after we have rains. Many vets don't test for it and I had puppies tested that I knew had it and the fecals when first run were negative. They ran them again and called me up telling me I had to come back and get meds because they did find coccidia in the stool.

I know alot of breeders and rescues who have had problems with it. The OP also frequents dog parks so I would be that the pup is picking something up there.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: PuffinGirl.....
> The TLI came back within normal range, so we're not dealing with EPI ....


What was the actual value?


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: PuffinGirl.....
> ...


It was 7.5. Low end of normal, but normal.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: GS MomI suggest it because I am in San Diego and it is a huge problem here, especially it seems after we have rains. Many vets don't test for it and I had puppies tested that I knew had it and the fecals when first run were negative. They ran them again and called me up telling me I had to come back and get meds because they did find coccidia in the stool.
> 
> I know alot of breeders and rescues who have had problems with it. The OP also frequents dog parks so I would be that the pup is picking something up there.


He only started going to the dog park 6 days ago, so I know that that's not the root of the problem.

Because we've run so many fecals, I don't think he could possibly have it. If it does show up in fecals, then it would have shown up in one of the many that we had done.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: AltoHi PuffinGirl
> 
> can you do a timeline summary for Jones (I think that's your pup's name) since you got him?
> List:
> ...


Oh my gosh - I don't know that there's any way I could go back and recreate that type of timeline with enough certainty that it would be helpful. This has been such a long process and so many things have been done/tried, that I wouldn't even know where to start. It would have been helpful if someone had suggested it, but I don't think anyone expected us to still be having these problems.

We don't have a holistic vet, but my personal vet I work for is pretty enlightened, and the internist we recently brought on board is highly respected and an excellent doctor.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: PuffinGirl
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: LisaT
> ...



I would think that a puppy should have a higher end TLI, much like younger dogs should have higher thyroid hormones. That TLI may change. For example, Max's first test was about 16, and 2 years later it was about 10.

We have someone on the board whose dog was low normal (5.9 - ish?) and they treated for EPI and the dog responded. So, a couple of thoughts. You could try, for a few meals, some pancreatic enzymes (capsules) and see if it makes a difference. The second thought, is that this most likely is something you will need to monitor. I think that *in susceptible dogs*, over time,these GSDs lose TLI function, and your pup is starting at low normal. You won't know for awhile whether your dog is one of the susceptible ones.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

The vet I worked with today suggested that we could try the enzymes just on the off chance that they might work. I think once we get him off the antibiotics and give him a little bit to rebound, we might try them.

And that's good to know that we should monitor his TLI. It's an easy enough test to do on a periodic basis.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

How about some boiled rice and chicken for a few days? Did that help? Or have we determined he may be allergic to chicken? Pluse some yougurt maybe?


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Oh, we tried it. He just wouldn't eat it. Brat. =)


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

What about rice and cooked ground beef/turkey? I know my dogs will pick out any chicken and leave the rice if I don't use ground meats and mix in. I also add in some broth occasionally as well - or juices from when I cooked the meat.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

He actually seems to be doing a bit better on the latest food we have him on - Pinnacle Trout and Potato. He had a normalish poop this morning and a semi formed poop this afternoon, which is a big improvement. We're giving him the last of his zithromax, giving him probiotics, the food, and that's all. We're going to leave him on this food for a couple weeks (assuming no major problems) and see how he does. Hopefully his poop continues to firm up and maybe he'll even put on a little weight.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

If it is working, stay with it! Good luck


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Hahaha...that's our plan. =) Poor puppy has been through so much in the past couple months, that we're hoping the right food and a break from all meds will be a step in the right direction.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Sure hope the pup (and you!!) get a break so that you all can enjoy puppyhood


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Thank you! =) We do too! Though I must admit, if the past couple months are what he's like when he's not 100%, I can't imagine what it's going to be like when he's completely healthy. He's already such a handful! =)


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Some times when puppy/dogs digestive systems are off and not functioning properly they can be any of the following: testy, bitey, short on attention span, sullen, grumpy. I feel that even though them to us seem fine personality wise the bad digestive system takes a toll. Some day they just might be more reactive, some day or part of a day they might be sorta quite.

I hope you can get this pups system settled and working properly.

Val


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

Yeah, I guess that's definitely a possibility. Since he won't talk to me to tell me what's going on, I have no idea. =)

We hope we can get his system settled too...we've been doing everything we can to try to.


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## 3dogmom (Aug 22, 2020)

PuffinGirl said:


> Hello, and thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions anyone might have. Since this is my first post, let me provide a brief introduction. My boyfriend and I, after over a year of research, purchased an 8 week old german shepherd puppy from a very reputable breeder. Everything was fine for the first 2 weeks.
> 
> Then the diarrhea started. I work at a vet hospital and consider myself somewhat knowledgeable about the typical stuff. We took him in to the vet the first day of diarrhea. Negative parvo test, normal bw, but a high fever. He was given fluids, injectable antibiotics, and sent home. His fever went away that night, and has not been an issue since.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I know this is an old post, but did you ever find out what was going on with your pup? We have a pup same age with the exact same symptoms. We have done everything to find out what is causing it. We could really use some advice and hope. Thanks!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

3dogmom said:


> Hi,
> I know this is an old post, but did you ever find out what was going on with your pup? We have a pup same age with the exact same symptoms. We have done everything to find out what is causing it. We could really use some advice and hope. Thanks!


11yr old thread and the original poster has not logged on in 7yrs.... there are similar threads as recent as the last couple months if you continue to look through the health and general puppy sections.


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