# switch to which? Orijen or Acana



## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Ok so, the current food i am feeding is giving my dog the runs. Today the feed store gave me a bag of taste of the wild bison to try. But after reading that most of you would not feed this to your puppy i have decided to switch to one of the two best kibbles out there. Acana and orijen. So i have tried to understand the difference but i don't. So for you experts or those that have tried both. Which one would be better for my 13 week old girl? But not only which brand but also which flavor/formula from each would be best? I would really appreciate some help. I'm worried for my girl and anxious to find something that works. She is getting awfully skinny from living off of pumpkin alone..

Thanks so much guys


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Orijen's protein is WAY too high... and this is in their 'large breed puppy' food.  Acana also is too high. Calcium seems OK in Acana, though. I didn't bother checking with Orijen because of the protein content. I had a preference to probiotics in the food, also. 

Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor This site has all the brands, the 'vitals' on the foods, and also the lists of recalls. 

This is what I feed. Pet Products - Healthy Dog Food, Natural Cat Food, Gourmet Dog Biscuits ? Innova Holistic Pet Food You'll notice the lower levels of protein as well as calcium. This is MUCH more in line with the protein levels of actual meat. Slower, steady growth to prevent pano. Much lower risk of the 'growing pains' in pups and better for their skeletal development and connective tissue development. I've spent HOURS on this site. Take your time. Do some research.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Puppies often have diarrhea when they're very young, just due to the nature of their exploratory tongues, heh. I switched my pup over at about that age to Orijen Large Breed Puppy. He had soft and runny poops for a while, but he also drank out of streams (a little on our off leashes wanders in our woods), ate deer poop (sigh) that's all over our backyard, etc...he eventually firmed up and his coat grew in absolutely gorgeous. I have tried other formulas, (he has been on Orijen Adult since about a year) but never found one that he looked as good on. He doesn't _LOVE _the food, however, so I always am keeping one eye out for something else I might like. 

He has grown fine and appropriately.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Thanks for the info


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I fed my adult dog Acana for awhile (after TOTW) but switched to Nature's Logic and am NOT looking back. I am that impressed. Anyway........not sure I would feed NL to a young put with the calcium content but.....

Beau grew up on Fromm Large Breed Puppy Gold and I was very happy with it.
Others here are feeding the Innova Large Breed Puppy and also happy. 
By the same token a lot of people like Orijen though I don't think there is any "best" commercial food.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

If you want your dog to be truly happy and healthy, my recommendation is to research raw diets


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> I fed my adult dog Acana for awhile (after TOTW) but switched to Nature's Logic and am NOT looking back. I am that impressed. Anyway........not sure I would feed NL to a young put with the calcium content but.....
> 
> Beau grew up on Fromm Large Breed Puppy Gold and I was very happy with it.
> Others here are feeding the Innova Large Breed Puppy and also happy.
> By the same token a lot of people like Orijen though I don't think there is any "best" commercial food.



I don't mean to hijack anything, but Nature's Logic looks good--I can't find where it's made though. Do you know?

Nevermind. I found it.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

So any dog that isn't raw fed isn't truly happy and healthy, eh? Give me a break.

Also, there is no (as in zero) actual scientific evidence that high protein foods have any negative impact on dogs. Some do well on them, others don't.

Acana and Orijen are both fine foods. The calcium/phosphorus levels in some of the Acana formulas are a bit high for a large breed puppy though so make sure you check those numbers if you are going to feed Acana.

Take everything that you read here, and anywhere else on the internet with a grain of salt. Find a food that your dog does well on and stick with it, regardless of what the brand name on the bag says. 

Good luck and I hope you find something that agree with you pup soon!


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I merely suggested to _research_ raw diets.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm really just looking for a more professional opinion on these foods and if they would be safe and healthy for my girl. And which formula would be best! I really appreciate the help! Thanks guys


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## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

I'm not a professional but I switched briefly to Acana Pacifica and it was far too rich for Gaia, we now feed Fromm Large Breed Puppy and she's doing great on it. If you go to a smaller independent pet store they will help you with your decision. Best of luck.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

gaia_bear said:


> I'm not a professional but I switched briefly to Acana Pacifica and it was far too rich for Gaia, we now feed Fromm Large Breed Puppy and she's doing great on it. If you go to a smaller independent pet store they will help you with your decision. Best of luck.


I could never find the calcium percentage in fromm?
And also it doesn't have any fruit in it, which i think is important


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## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

I emailed them for numbers and they got back to me same day.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

gaia_bear said:


> I emailed them for numbers and they got back to me same day.


Do you remember what the numbers are?


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## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

I'll check my work email tomorrow to see if I still have it


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'professional' opinion, especially seeing as you are posing the question on an Internet forum. As far as I know, there are no professional dog nutritionists who post here, only GSD owners who can give their opinion, and share personal experience with various foods. 

For what it's worth, both Orijen and Acana are excellent foods, and assuming your pup does well on them they are great choices. If choosing Orijen I would recommend their Large Breed Puppy, or 6 Fish formulas (our 11 month old has been on 6 Fish since she was about 5 months old and has done fantastic on it. If you try Acana I would go with something like Chicken and Burbank Potatoes, Duck and Bartlett Pear, Pacifica, or Wild Prairie. Any one of those formulas would be great for a large breed puppy as they are all have very good calcium and phosphorus levels. 

The main difference between Acana and Orijen is that Orijen is higher in meat content (and consequently protein). Also, while all of the Orijen formulas are grain-free, only some of the Acana formulas are grain-free. Acana formulas are lower in meat content and contain more protein from plant sources such as peas.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Almost all of the Fromm formula numbers are contained in my nutrition spreadsheet which you can find stickied at the top of this forum. Or you can view it with this link right here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AsBcSQ8_xK_ndDRkYWo3NmRSWEl4T1NuX290bG5ULVE&output=html


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

You can also call Fromm and they will send you the most detailed spreadsheet you would ever want to see.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

No need, I uploaded and posted that a while back too, lol. It's shared in my Google Docs right here: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&srcid=0B8BcSQ8_xK_nMVpCU2oyN1p5cVk


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I fed my boy Orijen Large Breed Puppy. He did super on it. The protein is not too high. I like raising a pup with plenty of protein in the diet! The problems can arise from Ca and Phos levels. Orijen utilizes low ash chicken. Not all higher protein foods do this, making them not appropriate for pups.The Orijen for puppy worked great. Some find it too rich or something for their dogs. I could not overfeed it without some diarrhea, but with normal meal size my guy did well.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Ken Clean-Air System said:


> Almost all of the Fromm formula numbers are contained in my nutrition spreadsheet which you can find stickied at the top of this forum. Or you can view it with this link right here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AsBcSQ8_xK_ndDRkYWo3NmRSWEl4T1NuX290bG5ULVE&output=html


So why on this does it say orijen lbp has calcium max 1.7 but on their website it talks about how some of the meat protein takes that calcium up to 2.5?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've never fed puppy food to my dogs. you may have to switch food
several times before you find one that works for your pup. you
can always add fresh beef, pork, chicken, lamb, fish, fruit, etc. to
whatever brand you choose.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would just contact Champion Pet Foods directly though their customer service line to get a clear answer.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

coulter said:


> So why on this does it say orijen lbp has calcium max 1.7 but on their website it talks about how some of the meat protein takes that calcium up to 2.5?


If you are looking at what I think you are on the Orijen website, they say "other foods that are high in protein" when talking about high calcium levels. They are talking about other brands that have high meat content and high protein - specifically, I would guess, Evo which has a similar meat content to Orijen's foods, but is very high in calcium because of the high ash meat meals that they use. I assume they are talking about Evo because they were the pioneers of the high protein "biologically appropriate" types of kibbles. Evo's formulas are all very high in meat content and protein, some even higher than Orijen in fact. If you look at the numbers for Evo's foods though, the calcium phosphorus and ash are all very high.

As Nancy suggested, you should contact Champion to be sure, but the way I read it, they are differentiating their foods, which have high protein and meat content, but maintain acceptable levels of calcium, phosphorus and ash, from their competition.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Basically, dog foods can be labeled for "all life stages" if up to 2.5% calcium so a lot of grain free foods that are higher than a lot of folks would prefer (in the 1.2-1.5% range or therabouts). It is not just percent but total calcium in the diet so you have to take into account how MUCH food you feed too. ..... whether or not it REALLY makes a difference, I don't know. The studies were done at levels greater than 3% calcium.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Orijen (LB pup and 6 fish) was too rich for my pup. I switched to Acana Pacifica, it's still not always sitting well with her, but much better. 

There are lots of great foods out there, I have been happy with the quality of Acana and Orijen, it's just that they can be rich for some dogs.


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## MattLink (Oct 23, 2012)

Link loves Orijen and Akana, but both gave him the runs so I sucked it up and put him on raw. Don't think I could ever go back to kibble!


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

Jag said:


> Orijen's protein is WAY too high... and this is in their 'large breed puppy' food.  Acana also is too high. Calcium seems OK in Acana, though. I didn't bother checking with Orijen because of the protein content. I had a preference to probiotics in the food, also.
> 
> Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor This site has all the brands, the 'vitals' on the foods, and also the lists of recalls.


*
The statement about protein is totally and completely false!!! *

The Dog Food Project - Is too much protein harmful?

Dog Food Protein | Frequently Asked Questions

*Protein from meat is great,* think about what they were designed to eat, meat which is high in protein. Now, protein from other sources is very bad. I would be careful about using dog food adviser as a REVIEW SITE. That site gives high marks to inferior dog food, brothers is a good example, it is barely a 3 star dog food. No meat.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

Protein, in the form of quality meat ingredients, is the most important component of a dog's diet. As animals with a carnivorous background, their digestive tract is designed to utilize primarily meat and fat. It is also the most expensive ingredient for a manufacturer to buy and the profit margin on a product is drastically affected by the amount and quality used. Ideally, the first ingredient of a food should be either a specified meat meal, or a specified fresh meat type followed by a meal. If your individual dog's specific needs limit you to using foods that do not include a concentrated source of meat in meal form, I highly recommend supplementing with fresh or canned meats on a daily basis.

Another quote about protein off that site...

The Dog Food Project - Identifying better products


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