# Would you ever shoot/kill your neighbor's dog? I would, and here's why:



## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

So a topic on another GSD board brought out my response below, and after typing it, the board/screen froze and I don't think my reply ever posted to their board. Luckily I was able to copy/paste it over to this board until I can get it posted back on that board. I wanted it to become it's own topic so I don't hijak their thread, and I thought it was an interesting subject; one that I've never discussed or shared with any of you. Here it is:



> *removed username* I would NEVER threaten to shoot anyone's dog . . .


I think it depends on the circumstances. Here's why:

We have neighbors who own a boxer and a beagle/hound mix. Their dogs bark and bark and bark at me, my daughters, my dogs, etc. Nara barks a lot too, which is why when she barks, she gets brought back inside. They normally do not bring their dogs inside, which has created tension, and I politely confronted them about it a few times. After each talk, things improved, but it only lasts a few weeks and they seem to forget and we go back to square one all over again.

I can live with the barking, as long as they don't wake up my daughters at night, which they haven't yet. The husband and I were talking one day on his front porch, and he brought out his dogs to meet me, hoping it would help to quiet them when they see me working in my backyard. His beagle/hound turned into a huge baby and was the sweetest dog. I gave him lots of love. His name is Parker, but we call him BARKER. Haha. When he brought his boxer out, I let the boxer sniff my hand, and he instantly latched on to my arm and bit me. His owner yanked him back, scolded him, and put him back inside saying "he's never done that before, never bit anyone." My neighbor is in the Air National Guard and I'm active duty US Air Force, and was wearing my thick canvass-like material uniform. When I got home, the bite went through that thick material and broke skin and caused bleeding, even though it didn't really hurt me. That was the first time I've ever been bit by a dog.

Anyways, these dogs have run up to the fence and started barking at my daughters while they played in our backyard, making my youngest one cry on numerous occassions. That pissed me off and I threw big rocks and brick pieces at my chainlink fence near them to scare them away (which worked), but still isn't a reason to want to shoot their dogs. 

That was the prelude, here's the real story:

So the husband and wife next door allow one of his brothers to live with them. He's even nicer than the husband, and I've talked to him about the dogs barking, since he is sometimes left behind to be responsible for the dogs. But they have a third brother who lives in a nearby neighborhood and used to stop by a lot, bringing his male pitbull Petey with him. I found out that this pitbull is dog aggressive towards their boxer, but I've seen all three out in their backyard together before, of course barking at me and my dogs. 

So, one time while I was at work and couldn't get home anytime soon, my wife calls me saying that the two brothers (not the nicest one, but the other two) were just inside our fence and were carrying Petey in their arms out of our yard. She didn't know what had happened, and the neighbors never came back to explain or apologize. I assume they think that no one in our household saw what happened. My wife was alerted to the situation because Nara was inside at a back window barking like crazy. Paw Paw was outside, and my wife was inside with the girls. 

I came home as quick as I could (a few hours later) and the two brothers were still out front on their property doing yardwork. I asked them what happened. They told me that Petey was in their backyard to go to the bathroom, and when he was done, he came around the side of their house because he knew they were out front. They admitted that they knew he can climb fences, and he started climbing their 6-foot fence in the front before realizing that to his right was our 4-foot fence, so he hopped over it instead. When he saw Paw Paw, he started chasing him around our backyard. Paw Paw has to be one of the fastest dogs I've ever seen, so there was no way Petey was going to catch him, nor would Petey be able to outlast Paw Paw's stamina and endurance. So it sounds like Paw Paw was running circles all around Petey and probably thought it was a fun game. 

Paw Paw has proven to be an alpha dominant dog over other males, so I'm shocked that Paw Paw didn't just tear right into Petey, which is why I think he thought he was playing some sort of chase/keepaway game like he plays with me and Nara. Petey is fully grown, but really small for a pitbull, so I don't think that Paw Paw was scared of him as he's already had run-ins with rottweilers, mastiffs, large GSDs, dobermans, boxers, weimaraners, etc. This was around the time that Nara was inside at the window barking and being the best guard dog ever! If she hadn't, my wife would never have known that anything happened, since the neighbors obviously weren't going to inform us. 

So when I confronted the brothers about what had happened, they got a chuckle out of the fact that Paw Paw was running from their little Petey, thinking my big husky must've been scared of their little pitbull. I didn't think it was funny at all. I went from the angle of "what can I do in the future to prevent this from happening again" thinking that they would come back with a "don't worry, we'll make sure it doesn't happen again" mindset, but they didn't. They sort of shrugged me off, thinking it was no big deal. So when I hit a brick wall looking for an apology and a solution at their end, I went with plan B: I told them that from now on, whenever Paw Paw is outside, Nara will be outside with him, because she would've been at that fence and would never allow Petey to hop over it. I know that, as much as their boxer and beagle's barking annoys us, Nara's barking annoys them, so I'm sure they were like "O no, not Nara outside barking all of the time." Their response: "well, Petey doesn't feel pain. He's chewed through metal and tore up his teeth and had a bleeding mouth but kept on chewing." 

So yeah, I pretty much got nowhere by talking to them. I was stunned. What if Petey was aggressive towards children and my girls had been playing in the backyard? Is my family not safe to be in our own backyard? What if Paw Paw and him got into it and he killed Paw Paw (or vice versa)? The last thing I wanted was more tension between my neighbors and I, and this all happened about 4-6 months after we moved in to this house, so we were the "new neighbors" who have a barking dog that I'm sure disturbs the neighborhood (which is why we bring her back inside), but not as much as their dogs do. 

So, baffled, I went to my Search and Rescue training that week and told everyone what had transpired. We're all dog lovers as we're an all K-9 SAR unit, and I was looking for opinions and advice. 100% of the feedback was "I would've shot and killed that dog if it hopped my fence and went after my dog." These aren't ******* hillbilly SAR members. These are respected cops, firefighters, military, etc. and we're all dog owners and lovers. WOW! I have guns in the house to defend and protect my family, but where we live, I don't fear any break-ins. We also have a "German Shepherd on Guard" sign out front to deter criminals, but mainly just to support and promote the breed since we love GSDs so much. If they made a Siberian Husky on Guard sign, we'd have that out there too, knowing that huskies don't guard much of anything (however, Paw Paw has proven to bark a deep-low-guttural-WUFF whenever strange humans like meter readers, etc. approach our property, so I believe he really does guard our house and yard, but most huskies are big love sponges). 


















So the last thing I want is to have to kill the neighbor's dog, because then I'd feel like we'd have to move to ensure they didn't do anything in retaliation, even though it's their fault that they didn't prevent their dog from jumping our fence. I wouldn't want them trying to poison or kill my dogs in revenge. I would never want anything to escalate to that level, but if their pitbull jumped the fence and tore into one of my children, I'd kill it with my own bare hands. I feel the same about my dogs; they are also my children. 

*And to their response of "Petey doesn't feel pain" all I can think of is "well, Petey WOULD feel DEATH!"*


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Yes, it has crossed my mind to kill the neighbor's dogs. I have two extremely irresponsible neighbors: one with a pitt and a weim, the other with a beagle and five other dogs. Both let their dogs yap around the clock, fence fight, and put in doggie doors so they can ignore them even more while I can't be in my yard in peace ever. I am terrified the pitt is going to come over the fence and kill my dogs and the stupid beagle is going to come over the fence and my dogs are going to kill it - the neighbors have crap leaning up against the fence so the beagle can stand on top of it with his feet on the top of the fence. So, yes, the thought has crossed my mind to do something about them.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

A pit climbing a fence to get into my backyard while my dogs/kids are out calls for drastic measures in my book.


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## King&Skylar (Jun 3, 2010)

One of my neighbours has an extremely aggressive lab, that has attacked skylar. I kicked it to get off of skylar and it worked. if that didn't work I would kick it until it stopped, even if i killed it. But it would have to be attacking her or a person before i did anything, i've never thought of killing it just because of his reputation. Its not the dogs fault he has a nutcase for an owner


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

have not only threatened, but have done it once before. Neighbor had a rottie that was the instigator of numerous attacks on our livestock. The final straw was when he killed the kids pet goat. We called the police and they told him that he was going to get shot the next time the dog was seen out of his yard. 
Of course, that was in WV where it is accepted and common knowledge that if your dog is a nuisance someone is going to shoot him. 

Just a short time ago, our neighbor shot his own dog because it was killing our chickens. I came home and my phone rang. They apologized that the dog had gotten loose and had killed more chickens (not the first time). She then told me that it wouldn't happen again as her husband had taken the dog out and shot her.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes. If there was a dog, known to be dog aggressive, on our property endangering our dogs, I would let the guys shoot. DH said he would also. He said if he didn't think he could get the dog off of ours or if it were a reoccurring problem, he would probably shoot it if he had too. That is a pretty big statement from him.


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## Wilhoit (May 17, 2010)

I am glad you brought up the subject. With reluctance, I would indeed have to kill a dog that was endangering my dog's life. The few occasions when Wilhoit was attacked by loose dogs I was able to fend them off and/or the owners arrived in time to rescue us. It was a constant worry that I was inadequately armed (just pepper foam, the heavy end of his police style lead, and a dressage whip) to protect him effectively. I knew from experience that he would have protected me with his life. The least I could do would be to return the favor. So, before I get another dog, I am going to either learn how to use a stun gun (which might not be effective enough) or a firearm. I am hoping that other replies to your thread might deal with effective but less lethal means of stopping dog attacks on our dogs.

Cecilia


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Only if the dog was on my property and injuring one of my children or animals without another way for me to break them up....so probably never in my case. I have a 6ft. privacy fence which keeps other dogs out of the back yard where my dogs are, and for the most part most of my neighbors care for their dogs properly so it's not an issue


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

There is chow mix in the house next to me that they keep chained 24/7. It is known to be aggressive towards humans and other dogs, with several attacks to kids and adults on his history. Many times I've found him loose on the way, sometimes he has broke the chain, sometimes the neighbors let him loose at dawn...

When I had just installed the fence and it was not dog proofed yet he entered once because Diabla was into heat (but crated indoors, I am dumb but not that much). I threw a big rock at him that hit him on the shoulder and made him cry and when he was struggling to leave through the hole he has made I had great satisfaction hitting him several times with a rake. Since then the dog avoids me like the pest and I have no fear of being attacked myself, but if ever attacks my dogs, if I see him near kids playing on the fields (My house has panoramic view of all the zone) or if he breaks in again he can expect the same treatment as before. Luckily for him, I have no fire weapons, but I can do great things with a shovel.


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## Deuce (Oct 14, 2010)

Stosh said:


> A pit climbing a fence to get into my backyard while my dogs/kids are out calls for drastic measures in my book.


AGREED! I have one that lives behind me and finds it necessary to jump its fence whenever it sees us in our yard.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

This almost makes me glad of the gun laws here in Chicago, because I'm pretty sure most of my neighbors think Bianca is aggressive (because of how she barks when people come near the house, and because she wears a Halti) and would probably assume she was going to attack their dog if she ever got loose and went up to sniff another dog...


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I've lost a LOT of livestock to loose/stray dogs. I would not shoot a dog just for coming in the yard unless I have proof that it is going to be a problem. I know all the "bad" dogs in the neighborhood and killing one would always be a last resort option. 

I would never assume a dog is aggressive enough to warrant the death penalty.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I would never shoot my neighbor's dog under any circumstances because it's _extremely illegal_ here.


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## gypsyrose (Nov 22, 2010)

I was raised on a farm and let me just say although it was normal practice to kill dogs that damaged and killed live stock including chickens in most cases killing one dog led to revenge killings. i lived through it and lost a great four legged friend in a dog war that started when one farmer killed a dog with out admitting it.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

So it's not only cops who are gun happy is it?

It's sad that people would punish a dog for something it doesn't understand. Even more sad than that is the ignorance that comes from people who don't understand certain breeds. Shame on you, you own just as dangerous of a breed and should understand that breed doesn't make a dog bad. People make a dog bad! I would pity none of you if your dog got shot because he or she looks a certain way because the shooter is NO worse of a person than you are for having the same mind set towards another breed.

If the dog is a problem, catch it and take it to the pound. Unless the dog is tearing up your pets or family or is so aggressive you can't get near it (AND NO, NOT FEAR AGGRESSIVE!!), there is NO reason to shoot a dog who might have just been trying to play. I hope I never meet any of you because you'd probably shoot MY dog! If another dog runs, he makes a game of it and runs right after the dog. He even tends to "herd" and nip other dogs. He growls and snarls and barks, shows teeth and grabs at the other dogs. It SOUNDS and LOOKS aggressive, but he's -never- hurt another dog. He (along with MANY other dogs I've met) just plays rough! But I guess that's a reason to kill him isnt it?!


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

> I'm shocked that Paw Paw didn't just tear right into Petey


I guess your dog needs a bullet to the head too.

I'll just leave this post with the wise words of "Karma is a bitch".


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If the dog comes into your yard and attacks your dog or your children, then I would not blame you for shooting the dog.

Of course, that would be a last resort. But you do have a responsibility toward your dogs and children. 

At the same time, a four foot fence is not much of a deterrent. Any chance of replacing that section with a solid six foot of privacy fencing, burying wire or concrete block below to ensure that the dogs cannot dig through? 

I know it sucks to have to adjust your fencing for a neighbor's lack of caring, but there is always the possibility that the four foot fence will not hold yours in as well.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ChancetheGSD said:


> So it's not only cops who are gun happy is it?
> 
> It's sad that people would punish a dog for something it doesn't understand. Even more sad than that is the ignorance that comes from people who don't understand certain breeds. Shame on you, you own just as dangerous of a breed and should understand that breed doesn't make a dog bad. People make a dog bad! I would pity none of you if your dog got shot because he or she looks a certain way because the shooter is NO worse of a person than you are for having the same mind set towards another breed.
> 
> If the dog is a problem, catch it and take it to the pound. Unless the dog is tearing up your pets or family or is so aggressive you can't get near it (AND NO, NOT FEAR AGGRESSIVE!!), there is NO reason to shoot a dog who might have just been trying to play. I hope I never meet any of you because you'd probably shoot MY dog! If another dog runs, he makes a game of it and runs right after the dog. He even tends to "herd" and nip other dogs. He growls and snarls and barks, shows teeth and grabs at the other dogs. It SOUNDS and LOOKS aggressive, but he's -never- hurt another dog. He (along with MANY other dogs I've met) just plays rough! But I guess that's a reason to kill him isnt it?!


One of us seriously misunderstood the OP. I took it as a strange dog was in your yard attacking your dog. The OP was not talking about a dog that got into his backyard trying to play. The dog is KNOWN to be dog aggressive and the only reason Paw Paw wasn't injured was the other dog couldn't catch him.

So, do you mean to tell me that you wouldn't defend your dog? If your only resort to save your dog was a gun, you would rather let the other dog kill your dog?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

ChancetheGSD said:


> I guess your dog needs a bullet to the head too.
> 
> I'll just leave this post with the wise words of "Karma is a bitch".


My neighbors have a black lab and a bunch of grand kids over all the time. If ANY ONE of my dogs got out of my house or kennel, went over, or through my fence and into THEIR yard, and attacked THEIR dog or THEIR grandkids or THEM, that dog WOULD deserve a bullet to the head. 

Sorry, but if a dog attacks me or mine, then I could go to the vet and run a battery of tests, and up the leadership, and go to more training, and the whole nine yards. But if my dogs go into someone else's yard and attacks them or theirs, THEY have a right and a duty to protect themselves, and their grandchildren, and their dogs and critters, except for their cats. 

I know there are cat lovers here. I think that 90% of my dogs' barking and is due to cats (that I think they are feeding) being in my yard and my shed, if my dog got loose and chased a cat back over there and was going at it, I would be pretty peeved if the dog got killed for that. 

At the same time, it WOULD be MY fault for not protecting my dogs by containing them properly.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jax08 said:


> One of us seriously misunderstood the OP. I took it as a strange dog was in your yard attacking your dog. The OP was not talking about a dog that got into his backyard trying to play. The dog is KNOWN to be dog aggressive and the only reason Paw Paw wasn't injured was the other dog couldn't catch him.
> 
> So, do you mean to tell me that you wouldn't defend your dog? If your only resort to save your dog was a gun, you would rather let the other dog kill your dog?


 
How dog aggressive really can this dog be though? The boxer may be the dog aggressive one, they tend to like a fight going in with their stub of a tail wagging. And the Boxer bit the guy, which is a little odd, maybe something off there. 

But who brings their dog to their brother's house if it is truly aggressive?

Is it possible that the boxer and the pitt are just playing loudly and roughly. 

I mean, if Petey was really aggressive, one or both of those dogs would have blood, stitches, drains, and the like. And the brothers who live there would say, Uhm, Petey is not welcome over here any more. End of problem. 

I think that really, we are over-reacting a little bit. The dog did not fight with the husky. The two guys were able to catch it and remove it with no dogs being injured. It is possible that the dog is a friendly, energetic dog. 

Going on the defensive, does not always mean grabbing your gun. It could mean keeping Paw Paw in when you are not outside. It could mean improving your fence. Hoping the gun truly is a last resort here.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

I'd shoot a neighbors dog in a heartbeat if it came over here. We had a neighbor who had 3 dogs, 1 was a little mutt, was was a pit mix and the third was a pitbull. The pitbull and the pit mix used to get out, they killed all of my chickens (who were all heirloom breeds and also pets!). We called them anytime we saw them out, finally one day my daughter was coming up the driveway from the bus and the pitbull was there and blocking her way. She had a cell so called me (our driveway is about 1500ft long). My husband went out immediately while I called the police. Luckily the local K9 officer heard the call and recognized the address since he trains here and responded to the call. He informed the neighbors that we had every right to shoot the dog if it threatened us or any of our animals again. They got rid of all the dogs not long after thanfully! We picked our daughter up from the bus stop until they did (which we almost always do anyway). You can bet we were ready to deal with it if it happened again.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I had a problem with my neighbor's GSD, Junkyard, who would come into my yard every time we had a storm (she was a suvivor of Hurricane Andrew and deathly affraid of storms). I'd asked them several times not to let her climb the fence but they never did anything.

She climbed it one day when all the Hooligans were out (six or seven of them at that time). They got into a big fight and she slit Niki's muzzle wide open, a huge flap of skin, and gave him a couple other good bites. 

I presented them with the $100something ER bill which they paid with no problem. 

Within a week he had jerry-rigged the common sideyard fence by putting up short polls on top and stringing barbed wire between the polls. This stopped her from coming over the fence in the side yard (but she still climbed it in the front yard but never when the Hooligans were out).


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

*So a moderator PMd me to tell me that posts shouldn't be any longer than 1000 words, which I didn't know, so they deleted the second half of my post. Here is the rest of what I originally wrote:*

Let's hope it never comes to that, because I do love dogs and would never want to be forced to kill one. My wife and I and kiddos are strict vegetarian/vegan and real animal lovers, so we don't kill anything for our diet or for anything else. If an animal put one of my family members (to include my dogs and cats) in danger, only as a last resort would I kill it, if there was no other way to protect them first. 

So, typing out this story -- a story I don't believe I've ever shared with any of you -- I feel it should become its own topic since it is and isn't related to the OPs post. I don't want to hijak this thread and have the conversation go off on a tangent about me instead of the OP's situation. But the comment I quoted has inspired me to discuss the hypothetical of a what-if it ever happened again. 

I have taken my dogs for walks and have had dogs on leashes run all the way over in our direction right up until the end of their property. It's kind of annoying, especially when they have a fenced-in backyard for the dog to be off-lead, because my dogs don't know that this dog running/barking at them can only go so far, so they go on alert status, ready to defend and attack back if need be. But as long as the dog stays on their property and barks to guard its territory, there's nothing wrong. It's within the confines of the law, and my dogs bark to guard their territory too. We have had dogs of all sizes and shapes run up on us while we go for walks. Most of them are not on a leash like the OPs was. They bolt out of the house, or come from the backyard, or from inside the garage. The owners have zero recall control over these dogs and seem so shocked, and their dogs come right out in the street to meet and sometimes attack my dogs. I always get flustered over the situation, but try not to show my anger towards them or their dogs, and I just tell the owners "I don't want to see your dog get hit by a car!" when I really mean "I don't want my dogs to kill your dog, and I don't want to have to kill your dog myself!" And if their dog is friendly, that makes the situation a little less stressful, but they shouldn't assume that my dogs are also friendly. Not every dog is friendly, and if they allow their dog to run up on an unfriendly dog with an irresponsible owner, their dog could end up dead and it would be their fault. I wouldn't let my dogs attack or kill another dog, unless that dog attacked mine, and I would do my best to separate their dog from mine, and keep it from hurting my dogs, and also keep my dogs from hurting it, until the owner came to retrieve their dog. I've had this happen before when an aggressive pitbull ran up on us and tore into my dogs, but that's another story I'll share some other day. 

This is why when I go for walks, I always walk in the street, NOT ON THE SIDEWALK, and I walk facing traffic. When on a sidewalk, part of their property is still on both sides of you, and if there is a dog attack and someone gets hurt or killed, I'd probably be to blame since it would be hard to prove that I wasn't on their property. It would be difficult to contain a dog fight to just a narrow sidewalk, and then prove it in a court of law. In the street, there is no chance for this to ever happen, plus it gives us extra bonus buffer time to prepare and get a better handle on my dogs when I see an off-lead dog running up on us. 

So yeah, OP, I understand your situation. But most people who see a GSD running up to them barking at 4am in the dark would be scared to death too! Especially if they don't realize that the dog can only go so far and cannot get to them due to the leash. If he was sleepy or drunk or whatever, and probably super grumpy at that hour, he would be more easily pissed off, and he probably didn't mean those words. If he did, he was wrong. If he's your neighbor, I'm sure he's seen your dog on this same leash during the day and should know that the dog cannot get to him. 

Most people's reaction, when overly offended, is to get overly defensive, and that might've prompted the extreme "I'll shoot your dog" exclamation. Sometimes people want to seem tough and will say things like that; like, if you get scared by a ghost you might shout "I'll kill you!" to scare the ghost away, even though 1. I don't believe in ghosts, and 2. even if they are real, you can't KILL a ghost! Haha. It's more of just using words to comfort yourself and make yourself feel better after getting the bejesus scared out of you. 

Hope that helps. 

With all of my crazy situations with the neighbors, I've always felt better after I've politely confronted them and talked it out man to man, instead of letting it boil inside of me until I lost my mind. 

O, and most people that use (idle) threats about shooting your dog don't really mean it, which is why they can so easily toss those words out there. They know deep down that they would never do it, which is why they come with the idle threats to again comfort themselves and make themselves feel better. It's the people that don't say anything who are the ones who should be feared and are more likely to shoot and kill. When you carry a concealed gun, you don't normally go around showing it off and letting everyone know you have it. And if you ever have to pull it out, you'd better use it and use it wisely, otherwise you should've never pulled it out in the first place, because you never know what rammifications the future might bring. 

Hope you can work it out with him. It's never fun to live in fear for your life or the lives of your beloved animals. And it's always best to let the situation desensitize itself over time before confronting him. You want to be in the right frame of mind (cool, calm, collected) when talking this out with him to truly achieve the desired results you seek. Good luck!


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

The OP said the dog was aggressive towards the BOXER. Never said it was aggressive towards the Beagle mix. So who's to say the dog chasing Paw Paw was aggressive? I do believe it's a situation that had to be seen to know what was going on but no, I wouldn't shoot a dog for chasing my dog. My dog HAS been attacked before. BOTH of them. I've NEVER killed a dog for it either. Even when 2 dogs went after my little senior and were pulling her by the throat and back I didn't kill the dogs. I did grab the male by the throat and choke him to get him to let go of my girls throat but I didn't have the intention of suffocating him.

I think my point isn't as much towards that dog alone as it is a general situation. You people make it sound like you'd kill a dog because it looks a certain way or because it chases your dog. Chasing doesn't always mean it's out to kill your dog. And to kill a dog because it's a certain breed is WRONG.

If the dog was tearing up my dog and I had no way of getting the dog off, I would shoot the dog. But again, people here are seeming pretty gun happy and wouldn't use it as a LAST resort. A dog chasing another dog isn't a "bad" enough situation to shoot a dog IMO.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't know who "you people" is but I plainly stated that if my dogs were in danger and we couldn't get them apart...as many other did.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

selzer said:


> How dog aggressive really can this dog be though? The boxer may be the dog aggressive one, they tend to like a fight going in with their stub of a tail wagging. And the Boxer bit the guy, which is a little odd, maybe something off there.
> 
> But who brings their dog to their brother's house if it is truly aggressive?
> 
> ...


THANK YOU! You said it better than I could right now.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

My cousins also my negibors. Used to have a female pit that when they were younger used to sick there dog on my cats while the cats were in our own yard none the less. Then It cought one one time and killed it. After that the dog would kill cats that were on our porch. She aslo attacked EVERY dog we owned and almost killed our lil poodle. I asked them many many times to do something about her. Tie her up. Pen her up but they just laughed and said that's what. Bulldogs do. After she almost crippled our poodle for the second time. I had enuff and while here it was leagal so shoot and kill her I couldent. She was the most people friendly dog u could meet. I waited till midnight and I started my truck up called her to me and I drove her to a town about a hour away and gave her to my Exs cousin and as far as I know they still have her. If so she would be about 10 or 12 yrs old.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I live in the country. I have livestock as well as family pets (cats & dogs) that are my responsibility to protect. If a stray dog comes on my property, I'll begin with the use of rat shot. 98% of the time, that dog will never come near my place again. 

I have killed a Pit once on my property. Yes, it did break my heart. No, it wasn't an easy thing to do. If it makes me a Country Hillbilly, me and Jethro will sit together behind the shed drinking moonshine till we yodel with the coyotes. This dog came after me before & rat shot ran it off. This time I was working a young horse in our round pen and the dog began stalking us. Hollering at the dog didn't run it off. Once the dog broke into a full out attack - I shot it. I blame whom ever owned the dog for letting it run. A warning shot (at the dog) was not an option as I had a young horse in a round pen. 

Anybody who owns horses knows that the use of firearms around a young horse would be the very last thing you would ever do. But there was no way I was going to allow this dog to injure my horse. I knew once it got into the round pen I would have no ability to protect my horse (or me). 

To the OP: I would highly suggest the use of an electric wire around the top of your fence. They are economical, and I bet that once your neighbor's dog hits that wire, it won't attempt to come over your fence again. Barking dogs can cause hard feelings among neighbors - but actually killing your neighbor's dog should be your last resort. I would assume legally, you would need to make sure you tried everything you could before you resorted to the use of deadly force.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm playing with my children right now before dinner and bedtime, but I'll be on later tonight to reply and help clear up a lot of the misconceptions people are having (due to my lack of detail despite the 2000+ word post) about this situation. There's obviously more to explain, and I'll try to keep each reply under 1000 words. Haha! Thanks for viewing, replying and adding your opinions/advice about my particular scenario with the neighbor's dogs. Be back in a few hours.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

I don't see where the confusion is coming from? The OP said he would NOT harm the dog unless it was attacking his kids or dogs not just in the yard playing. He gave the story of the dog running in the yard and the owners not caring to state that they were not containing the dog and if it came after his dogs (or kids) actually attacking and as a last resort he would shoot it.

Same thing every other person has stated. No one said it was because the dog was a pit or anything else so why there is so much drama over the breed or just shooting for no reason I don't get because only ONE PERSON has thought that everyone wanted to kill for no reason not as a last resort. No reason to explain it any further IMO


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Here is my 2 cents.. Call animal control, call the police. Take a preventative step before you take a drastic one.

Dog aggression is common in bulldogs... But I am telling you -unless this is just a fat little American Bully - if he was DA Paw Paw would have been hurt. And dogs are NOT stupid, he would have known that Petey was not playing, dogs read body language. So my guess is it WAS play or else Paw Paw would have reacted accordingly, not run... This is only a guess.

Now, that does NOT make it any more okay at all. That dog needs to be controlled or taken away. Do NOT let your dogs out unsupervised. Just because he isn't hot and outright DA does not mean he will be so friendly with your pups next time. Same goes for yours kids, because while bulldogs as a breed are not human aggressive, you don't know what this particular dog would do.

Also just a side note here, you said he was small for a pit bull.. the normal pit bull size is 30-45 pounds.


What kind of fence is separating the yards?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

ChancetheGSD said:


> The OP said the dog was aggressive towards the BOXER. Never said it was aggressive towards the Beagle mix. So who's to say the dog chasing Paw Paw was aggressive? I do believe it's a situation that had to be seen to know what was going on but no, I wouldn't shoot a dog for chasing my dog. My dog HAS been attacked before. BOTH of them. I've NEVER killed a dog for it either. Even when 2 dogs went after my little senior and were pulling her by the throat and back I didn't kill the dogs. I did grab the male by the throat and choke him to get him to let go of my girls throat but I didn't have the intention of suffocating him.
> 
> I think my point isn't as much towards that dog alone as it is a general situation. You people make it sound like you'd kill a dog because it looks a certain way or because it chases your dog. Chasing doesn't always mean it's out to kill your dog. And to kill a dog because it's a certain breed is WRONG.
> 
> If the dog was tearing up my dog and I had no way of getting the dog off, I would shoot the dog. But again, people here are seeming pretty gun happy and wouldn't use it as a LAST resort.* A dog chasing another dog isn't a "bad" enough situation to shoot a dog IMO*.


On my property it is "bad" enough. Well, if the dog was in the back yard within my fence and chasing my dog, yes, that is bad enough.

I have not been able to shoot the dog going after my dogs while getting them in my car on my property. But if someone else could, than fine. 

You know why I say that? It is not because I hate dogs. Or I cannot tolerate other people's dogs. Or even because the dogs' owners are idiots. 

It is because where I live, our Dog Warden (well the last dog warden we had, not sure about this new one), and the sherriff's department, pay zero attention to the fact that OHIO has a leash law. It is statewide. 

And yet, you can call and call, and call until you are blue in the face. You can tell them you are watching the dog EAT your tree. You can tell them that the dog is attacking EVERY time you try to put your dogs in your car. 

Doesn't matter, they do nothing. 

What gets them off their duff is when some yayhoo shoots their neighbors dog when it is on his property bothering his critters. THEN the sherriff comes, and the owners call the newspapers, and they put it on the internet, and the guy gets hanged in print by a whole bunch of people who haven't a clue. 

The reason people take the law into their own hands is because the law doesn't bother to do anything when they call them. 

So you are supposed to sit back while a dog tears into your rabbits or chickens or dogs, and let them do it and once your pets are dead, YOU can call the papers, and maybe the dog warden WILL come out. 

But which of us wants to BURY our dog before anything is done. 

Replace the fence. Put up a cattle fence to discourage the dog from digging it or climing it. If that doesn't work, and the dog gets in and attacks. Too bad for them, because your dog should not be the one going to the vet.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Someone mentioned an electric fence line at the top of the fencing...

I watched Jax fly through an electric fence. It hit her back and her stomach on the way through. Her goal? To move all the goats from one place to another. She meant no harm to them. But all she saw and heard were the goats.

So, if a truly dog aggressive dog is climbing over the fence, a mere electric fence isn't going to stop it. It won't even slow them down. They don't think, they don't hear...the only thing on their mind it getting at the other dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

A solid fence will keep a dog out temporarily. A dog that has all day will dig under or climb over a fence. A dog will not do that if he gets zapped when he tries to climb or dig. 

If the dog can sail over the fence, wire will do nothing. Thus a taller fence is needed. But a cattle fence up eighteen inches from the ground will keep a dog from digging or climbing. I know this because I have done it successfully.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

We had a boxer that could scale a 6' fence. In the OP's story, it was stated that the dog could climb a 6' fence. So a taller fence would have done nothing in this case. Altering the top to tip in at an angle would make it impossible for the dog to go over if it's tall enough.

Cattle fence? 18" tall from the ground up? How does that stop them from climbing?


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I would go the AC method here and take pics of the dog scaling your fence. Laws in every State are different, but should the time arise and you did shoot someone else's dog you'll want a paper trail showing your effort to resolve the situation and pictures to prove there was a standing safety issue.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would not shoot to kill anything b/c I don't carry or own a gun, but I would definitely kick a dog off myself or one of my dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jax08 said:


> We had a boxer that could scale a 6' fence. In the OP's story, it was stated that the dog could climb a 6' fence. So a taller fence would have done nothing in this case. Altering the top to tip in at an angle would make it impossible for the dog to go over if it's tall enough.
> 
> Cattle fence? 18" tall from the ground up? How does that stop them from climbing?


You start with a tall strong fence. Then you add a cattle fence, mine was solar powered. It is a wire that the dogs can see, but don't want to go anywhere near. It zaps them. 

I have been zapped by them, it is similar to a bee sting. It is not abusive, and a dog with bare feet would probably feel more than I do. But, the dog learns right away to avoid it. 

Eighteen inches up from the ground keeps them from trying to dig under and trying to climb over. It keeps them away from the fence period.

An e-fence a dog will take the zap and go through if the prize is good enough. But in this case there is a solid fence. That dog will get zapped a bunch of times to try to get past the wire. 

I no longer have mine up, but my dogs would rush to the gate, stop and look for the wire, and then go forward to where they could see or bark, but not come near the wire or fence. 

It stops climbing and digging. if the dog could sail over six foot, then you still have a problem.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

aha...very good idea. Solar fencers aren't that expensive. We have one for an acre of horse fencing.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

If it meant protecting my dog, then yes. And whoever said that they would never shoot a dog chasing their dog - what if you were in my shoes? Your dog is an 8 lb. Pomeranian. What if the dog chasing your 8 lb. Pom is a 120 lb. rottweiler? I'd be glad to shoot it or hit it with a tire iron if it meant keeping Ozzy safe. I know a lot of people here aren't 'small dog' people, but that's one way to look at it.

I'd prefer taking a step before it got to that point though, such as alerting the police of an aggressive dog nextdoor that you KNOW can get into your backyard whose owners refuse to do anything about it. Most areas take aggressive dog cases seriously, from what I know. (Which isn't much...).


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

I don't care how big my dog is or how big the dog is that's chasing it...my first reaction would never be to pull out a gun. I hate the mindset that thinks owning a gun solves problems. When you've got two dogs in a fight you better be darned sure you've got perfect aim because the dog you shoot might be your own. 

I do think protecting livestock is a whole different ballgame btw, and although I hate to hear that it happens, a farmer or rancher has the right to protect their livelihood.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Syaoransbear said:


> I would never shoot my neighbor's dog under any circumstances because it's _extremely illegal_ here.


 
Wow! Where do you live? I’ve never heard of any place where, if someone or something comes in your house or on your property, you are not allowed to defend your life or the life of your family because the law says it’s illegal. So, if you have children outside and an aggressive dog attacks them in your own backyard after hopping the fence, you would be forced to let the dog kill your children because the law says it’s “extremely illegal?” I highly doubt that. But if that’s the case, I would move someplace else where the laws defend the innocent victims and not the guilty aggressors! Ha.




selzer said:


> At the same time, a four foot fence is not much of a deterrent. Any chance of replacing that section with a solid six foot of privacy fencing, burying wire or concrete block below to ensure that the dogs cannot dig through?





selzer said:


> I know it sucks to have to adjust your fencing for a neighbor's lack of caring, but there is always the possibility that the four foot fence will not hold yours in as well.




The dog could scale a 6’ fence as well, which is what it was in the process of doing when it saw Paw Paw in my yard, and only a 4’ fence in his way of getting into my yard. We wanted to put up a 6’ wooden privacy fence if/when we get the money, but we’re only going to be here for another 3 years, so it might not be worth the time or expense.

And yes, our dogs are able to jump the 4” fence if they wanted to, but they never have and hopefully never will. If they did, I would take instant measures to ensure it doesn’t happen again, unlike my neighbors who initially shrugged it off and got a chuckle out of what had happened.




selzer said:


> How dog aggressive really can this dog be though? The boxer may be the dog aggressive one, they tend to like a fight going in with their stub of a tail wagging. And the Boxer bit the guy, which is a little odd, maybe something off there.





selzer said:


> But who brings their dog to their brother's house if it is truly aggressive?
> 
> Is it possible that the boxer and the pitt are just playing loudly and roughly.
> 
> ...




The main brother told me that his boxer is so scared of the pitbull that they normally are separated inside the house. He also mentioned that the boxer will tremble in the corner when the pit is in the same room. I have seen them out back together for bathroom breaks, but that’s about it. I guess they can coexist in an area sometimes, but it was made clear who the aggressive dog was. 

And these brothers obviously don’t care much about any of the situations I’ve mentioned. Their dogs bark all of the time and they don’t care enough to do anything about it. Their dog climbs my fence and they laugh about it instead of realizing the potential danger. What if my dog/s killed the pitbull in my backyard. That wouldn’t be very funny for them, would it? Well the same is true for me if the results went the other way.




ChancetheGSD said:


> The OP said the dog was aggressive towards the BOXER. Never said it was aggressive towards the Beagle mix. So who's to say the dog chasing Paw Paw was aggressive? I do believe it's a situation that had to be seen to know what was going on but no, I wouldn't shoot a dog for chasing my dog. My dog HAS been attacked before. BOTH of them. I've NEVER killed a dog for it either. Even when 2 dogs went after my little senior and were pulling her by the throat and back I didn't kill the dogs. I did grab the male by the throat and choke him to get him to let go of my girls throat but I didn't have the intention of suffocating him.





ChancetheGSD said:


> I think my point isn't as much towards that dog alone as it is a general situation. You people make it sound like you'd kill a dog because it looks a certain way or because it chases your dog. Chasing doesn't always mean it's out to kill your dog. And to kill a dog because it's a certain breed is WRONG.
> 
> If the dog was tearing up my dog and I had no way of getting the dog off, I would shoot the dog. But again, people here are seeming pretty gun happy and wouldn't use it as a LAST resort. A dog chasing another dog isn't a "bad" enough situation to shoot a dog IMO.




First off, no one singled out any breed. Any dog big enough or aggressive enough to inflict damage on my dogs would be deemed a threat. A little yorkie would not need a bullet. A pitbull would. Any dog that my dogs couldn’t defend themselves against is a threat. And yes, killing or shooting it would only be a last resort, not the first method of breaking up a fight. I’ve broken up many dog fights and have never needed a gun to halt the brawl. 

If the dog is chasing my dog in my fenced-in backyard, it’s a problem. We weren’t at a dog park. This is MY PROPERTY that has a fence around it which is the universal symbol of KEEP OUT OF MY YARD! Haha. Castles had walls just like houses have fences: to protect the people and the land within from outside invaders, thus keeping everyone on the inside feeling safe at all times. It keeps the people (and pets) on the inside safe, and the people on the outside OUT! 

It’s like saying that, if an intruder breaks into your house while you’re home, as long as he doesn’t have the intent to harm you, you’d let him break in over and over again. Well, you’ll never know the real intent until it’s usually too late, so why let it get to that? Why let it go that far? If someone breaks into my house, he/she is going to get shot as a first resort, not the last. If a human jumped my fence, I’d be outside in a flash with my shotgun. Would I storm through the door with guns blazing? No. But if they didn’t flee, then things might escalate and who knows what would happen.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Lilie said:


> To the OP: I would highly suggest the use of an electric wire around the top of your fence. They are economical, and I bet that once your neighbor's dog hits that wire, it won't attempt to come over your fence again. Barking dogs can cause hard feelings among neighbors - but actually killing your neighbor's dog should be your last resort. I would assume legally, you would need to make sure you tried everything you could before you resorted to the use of deadly force.


 
Thanks for the input and advice!

Honestly, a fence already exists. The fence works well enough to keep my dogs in. I shouldn’t have to do anything to it to keep aggressive dogs out. It’s their owners responsibility to control their dog. If you know your dog can scale a fence, and you also know your dog is dog aggressive, and you know that your neighbor has dogs and small children that play in the backyard, wouldn’t you ensure that your dog doesn’t do anything to create a situation that could bring harm to itself or someone else? You wouldn’t just put it out in the backyard unsupervised would you? And then expect your neighbor to beef up his fence to keep your dog out of his yard? If anything, that neighbor should put up a fence of his own to keep his dog contained in his yard and ensure that it can never get into mine.




APBTLove said:


> Here is my 2 cents.. Call animal control, call the police. Take a preventative step before you take a drastic one.





APBTLove said:


> Dog aggression is common in bulldogs... But I am telling you -unless this is just a fat little American Bully - if he was DA Paw Paw would have been hurt. And dogs are NOT stupid, he would have known that Petey was not playing, dogs read body language. So my guess is it WAS play or else Paw Paw would have reacted accordingly, not run... This is only a guess.
> 
> Now, that does NOT make it any more okay at all. That dog needs to be controlled or taken away. Do NOT let your dogs out unsupervised. Just because he isn't hot and outright DA does not mean he will be so friendly with your pups next time. Same goes for yours kids, because while bulldogs as a breed are not human aggressive, you don't know what this particular dog would do.
> 
> ...




The incident happened one time. If it ever happened again, you’re right, I would call AC or the police.

Your guess is as good as mine, as no one was there to witness how it all played out. I’m just filling in the blanks based on what I know about Paw Paw, and what they told me about their pitbull. We have a big enough back yard (over a third of an acre) as you might’ve seen from the photos I’ve posted in the past, and Paw Paw runs from Nara all of the time and is a master of running circles around the competition. He knows where to cut and turn to escape his aggressors. There’s no way that little Petey could ever match Paw Paw’s speed. I’m sure Paw Paw was in shock because no animal has ever been so fearless as to come into our backyard and challenge him to a duel. He felt safe in his own backyard, rightfully so, and probably had his guard down (similar to how most of us felt in the USA on 9/11). Maybe he was so shocked that he ran to avoid confrontation until he could figure things out, and by then the pitbull’s owners were entering our backyard, which would’ve added even more confusion by seeing not only a strange dog chasing him, but also two strange humans coming his way. I’ve seen him demolish rottweilers, mastiffs, Dobermans, boxers, etc. which huskies are not known to do, but Paw Paw is on a whole different level for some reason. Not a brag, just the facts and the truth. That’s why I stopped taking him to dog parks to try to socialize him when we first rescued him, and I don’t allow him around other in tact males.

All of the pitbulls I’ve ever seen are very muscular and very large (70-90 lbs). I’m no expert, but I know there are numerous breeds that people lump into the “pitbull” category. Petey is supposedly 50 lbs and looks tiny for a pitbull. Paw Paw is 64 lbs and is big for a husky.

Our fence is the standard 4’ chainlink fence on the sides and back, with the 5’ wooden privacy fence in the front.

Thanks for the info on pitbulls and bully breeds!




Zoeys mom said:


> I would go the AC method here and take pics of the dog scaling your fence. Laws in every State are different, but should the time arise and you did shoot someone else's dog you'll want a paper trail showing your effort to resolve the situation and pictures to prove there was a standing safety issue.


 
 Agreed! Good point!!




Konotashi said:


> I'd prefer taking a step before it got to that point though, such as alerting the police of an aggressive dog nextdoor that you KNOW can get into your backyard whose owners refuse to do anything about it. Most areas take aggressive dog cases seriously, from what I know. (Which isn't much...).


 
Another good point! Agree. Agree. Agree!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> One of us seriously misunderstood the OP. I took it as a strange dog was in your yard attacking your dog. The OP was not talking about a dog that got into his backyard trying to play. The dog is KNOWN to be dog aggressive and the only reason Paw Paw wasn't injured was the other dog couldn't catch him.





Jax08 said:


> So, do you mean to tell me that you wouldn't defend your dog? If your only resort to save your dog was a gun, you would rather let the other dog kill your dog?







Holmeshx2 said:


> I don't see where the confusion is coming from? The OP said he would NOT harm the dog unless it was attacking his kids or dogs not just in the yard playing. He gave the story of the dog running in the yard and the owners not caring to state that they were not containing the dog and if it came after his dogs (or kids) actually attacking and as a last resort he would shoot it.





Holmeshx2 said:


> Same thing every other person has stated. No one said it was because the dog was a pit or anything else so why there is so much drama over the breed or just shooting for no reason I don't get because only ONE PERSON has thought that everyone wanted to kill for no reason not as a last resort. No reason to explain it any further IMO





Thank you. You saved me a lot of time by helping clear things up for those who might’ve misread what I wrote. I understand that I wrote so much that the Moderator told me it was TOO MUCH! So I assume not everyone had the time to read through all of what I wrote, and probably skimmed it, summarized, and replied, not being accurate because they missed some of the smaller details that led them to jump to conclusions.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

counter said:


> Wow! Where do you live? I’ve never heard of any place where, if someone or something comes in your house or on your property, you are not allowed to defend your life or the life of your family because the law says it’s illegal. So, if you have children outside and an aggressive dog attacks them in your own backyard after hopping the fence, you would be forced to let the dog kill your children because the law says it’s “extremely illegal?” I highly doubt that. But if that’s the case, I would move someplace else where the laws defend the innocent victims and not the guilty aggressors! Ha.


I live in canada. Firearms are illegal, except for guns used for hunting and you need a license to own one and you have to register your guns. I don't have a license.

All guns must be stored, locked, and unloaded. I would have to run inside the house, unlock the cabinet, load the gun, then come out to my obliterated child. Waste of time. 

Even if you did use a gun for self-defense, you would likely be charged with some sort of criminal activity anyway.

I may not agree with how they handle self-defense here, but I'd rather live here where it's not legal than live in a place where it is legal but I actually _need_ to carry a gun for self-defense.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

You do realize Huskies are known to be escape artists.

I would save the use of firearms as a last resort. Why?Because I don't have a guns license so therefore I can't own a gun. I live in the city, complete city, and where I live guns are used in the wrong way(just early this morning a fight broke out in a mall that is less than 10 minutes from me and gunshots were heard.) and owning a gun isn't something to brag about.

Anyways, IMO these people are failing in the dog ownership department. Just because a dog is chasing your dog doesn't always mean its dog aggressive. Working at a shelter, I should know the different types of aggression. It may be but highly doubt it. 

I have had a dog charged at me and Molly, but he just wanted to play but was pushy.(I know the difference between a dog being aggressive and dog being friendly) My brother was walking Tanner, so I had him take Tanner across the street and hide on the otherside of the car for the safety of both dogs. I kept myself between the dog and Molly, I let out a yell and lucky enough the neighbors of the house the dog came from heard me and saw me through her window and came out and took the dog to her house. She came back out to see if we were alright. We were, I asked if the owners were home she said no. The idiot owners put the dog on a leash and tied the leash to the rail of the front porch, of course it didn't hold the dog, and left. She apologized for what happened, even though it wasn't her dog, we told her where we lived and said she would tell the neighbors so they would know. We walked by the next day to see if the owners were out. The dog was in the back in his kennel, the owners saw us but didn't say a word, never apologized. 

Another incident happened when I was walking Tanner at night once. I was walking when I saw this lady walking a few ahead of us across the street. She had 5 little dogs with her, none were on a leash. Everytime someone walked by them, whether they had a dog or not, the dogs would go into a frenzy and bark and growl. A couple times 1 or 2 of the dogs would run into the street. This lady no control over her dogs. I walked a different block, but eventually was directly across the street from her. Her dogs saw Tanner and started to bark and growl and were about to run across. If they would have I would have 1. Gave the owner a piece of my mind. 2. Shoved the dogs off with my feet and yelled to scare them and keep myself between her dogs and my dog. Yes, they were little, and I had a huge black GSD, but you never know.Tanner could have easily hurt or kill any of the dogs. Tanner saw them, but didn't try and go after them, he was calm and watched.

Neither incident did I need to use a gun, nor did I have one. They seem rather small incidents, but could have horrible consequences.
I would call AC, try and get these dogs taken away from these people because they obviously don't know how to handle their dogs. Take care of your fence issue if need be.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

If there is a dog that comes into my yard and its known to be aggressive and it starts attacking my children or my dogs, you better believe i will severely injure and possibly kill the hazard. My kids and my animals mean more to me than someone else's aggressive animal. A dog attacks my kids, you better believe that dog will not make it out of my yard undamaged. I expect my dogs to be able to defend themselves pretty decently until i can jump in and rescue them, but my kids at their current ages, dont understand that other dogs can be bad. In some instances, yes, i can totally jusify killing another dog. I actually intend on buying a taser in the next few weeks after the incident i experienced the other night.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Here is a copy of the WV statute regarding dogs and livestock. 

A person may kill a dog that he may see chasing, worrying, wounding or killing any sheep, lambs, goats, kids, calves, cattle, swine, show or breeding rabbits, horses, colts or poultry outside of the enclosure of the owner of the dog, unless the chasing or worrying be done by the direction of the owner of the sheep, lambs, goats, kids, calves, cattle, swine, show or breeding rabbits or horses and colts or poultry.

------
I should also add that this is a situation that animal control in most area of WV doesn't handle. If you call the police, they will shoot the dog if it's still on your property. If the dog is gone, but you know who owns it, the officer will go to their house and advise them that the next time the dog will be shot on sight. 

It is actually illegal illegal for your neighbor to rehome the dog at that point - the owner's ONLY legal option is to have the dog destroyed 

§ 19-20-17
A person who shall harbor or secrete or aid in secreting a dog which he knows or has reasons to believe has worried, chased or killed any sheep, lambs, goats, kids, calves, cattle, swine, show or breeding rabbits, horses, colts or poultry not the property of the owner of the dog, out of his enclosure, or knowingly permits the same to be done on any premises under his control, is guilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon conviction thereof, before any court or magistrate having jurisdiction thereof in the county in which the offense is committed, shall be fined not less than ten dollars nor more than fifty dollars, and, at the discretion of the court or magistrate, imprisoned in the county jail not more than thirty days. Each day that the dog is harbored, kept or secreted shall constitute a separate offense.


Edited to add: the dog must be destroyed after the owner receives a written notice from a "person of authority" It rarely comes to actually going to court because if the livestock owner doesn't shoot the dog, the dog's owner will do it himself


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

I dont know how to shoot a gun but I wish I couldve the day 2 loose dogs came into my yard and had my cat and killed her. I was FURIOUS she had gone out and stayed in my yard for years, she was oldand think was sleeping that day in her little semi fenced area.
Situation #2
My husband (before we got married and he lived at his place) had a huge Rottweiler next door who acted extremely aggressive and used to hang over the rickety 6 ft wood fence and bark and growl and froth at the mouth. When I used to walk Sashi over there (90# GSD) I used to pray that he wasnt out. I was so afraid of him and the owner, even tho this dog acted terrifying NEVER went out with him. 
Anyways, my hubby had to put up with this every AM when he walked to his car to go to work with this rott snarling, barking and hanging over fence and owner does NOTING. one AM he busted thru the fence and hubs had to make a mad dash to the car. 
So, that night when he came home from work he went over and told the guy: next time that dog comes after me Im going to shoot it, *he meant it.* And believe me, we are big time dog lovers but when you feel like your life is threatened you start thinking of protecting yourself. This dog weighed easily 120# he was huge and owner was an idiot. 
I feel like you have a right to be on your property and feel safe.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I sure hope people realize there are steps that can be taken between complaining about a dog on a webboard and shooting it.

Anytime I see a loose dog I call the police first (mostly to see if anything called about their dog being missing) and then AC (to come pick it up).

If I lived next to someone that had a dog that caused me concern for my or my animals safety I would access the situation first. Do they have good control over the dog? If not, I call AC and MEET them at my place to SHOW them how the dog concerns me and let AC take it from there.

I do own firearms and I used to raise chickens, duck and rabbits (and will again) and I have no problem shooting a dog or cat (or coyote or raccoon) that is attacking my livestock. If I saw an animal around my stock I would blast a warning shot over it's head first (being mindful of the shot's potential trajectory).

I trap the cats that roam around my place and have AC pick them up. Yes, they do get euthanized but it's a less painful death than being hit by a car or attacked by my dogs.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Syaoransbear said:


> I live in canada. Firearms are illegal, except for guns used for hunting and you need a license to own one and you have to register your guns. I don't have a license.
> 
> All guns must be stored, locked, and unloaded. I would have to run inside the house, unlock the cabinet, load the gun, then come out to my obliterated child. Waste of time.
> 
> ...


So you're saying that there's no crime in Canada? Or at least not enough crime to justify a "right to bear arms?" My wife and I have discussed moving to Canada. It looks beautiful up there. It's like an extension of Oregon and Washington: green trees and white mountains all year round!

But what about bears and wolves and coyotes and any other wild predator that comes on your property with the intent to maim or kill? You aren't allowed to shoot them either? If anything comes on my property trying to harm or kill my kids or dogs, regardless of whether it's a human, domesticated dog, coyote, bobcat, etc., if I couldn't scare it away first, I would kill it as a last resort.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Lauri, those are all good suggestions IF you have that option. Unfortunately, it wasn't available to me when I lived in WV. A call to AC would get the response that if you catch and chain up the dog, they will come pick it up. If the dog killed livestock, you can ask the court to put it down. Once the verdict is given, the owner has 48 hours to have the dog destroyed.

If you call police, they will advise you to just kill the dog.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> You do realize Huskies are known to be escape artists.
> 
> ...and owning a gun isn't something to brag about.
> 
> ...


Yes, huskies can hop fences or dig under them, but Paw Paw never has for some reason. We had the same style/height fence in VA and he always stayed put in the backyard. Might be luck. Might be that he knows how good he has it and the grass doesn't seem greener on the other side. Hopefully he never tries to escape, because the last thing we want is to lose him.

And right you are about bragging about gun ownership, which is why I have a concealed carry license so no one even knows I'm carrying a gun. The people that brag and show it off are people who shouldn't own guns because they have the wrong mindset. I've been trained in gun handling and firing by the US Navy and now the US Air Force, as well as gun classes and utilizing the gun range at gun clubs and gun stores. I just hope that I'd never need to use a gun in my lifetime, but I would if I had to, only as a last resort.

Again, the neighbors already told me that the pitbull was dog aggressive, and the boxer bit me, so it sounds like they have issues with 2 of their 3 dogs. My dogs have never bit anyone, and I know that Paw Paw is dog aggressive, so he's not allowed around other dogs unless on lead for a meet and greet to see if they could be friendly together. As soon as they show the wrong kind of sign, Paw Paw gets pulled back and we move on. No more dog parks for Paw Paw ever again. He has been in REAL DOG FIGHTS, not rough play wrestling (he does that at home with Nara and Beowulf daily, so I know the difference), and I don't want him hurting anyone's dog, nor do I want him to get hurt. I don't want to deal with lawsuits or AC or having him get put down. I try to be responsible, and hope that others are too.

In both of your incidents, I wouldn't need to use a gun either. I've gotten lucky a few times, like that time when an off-lead, big (60-70 lbs), muscular, aggressive pitbull ran up on us, stopped to sniff, then tore into Paw Paw while I had Nara and Paw Paw restrained on lead. I had to drop the leads near a busy street and leap on the pitbull. I wrestled him off of Paw Paw, locked him up, rolled on my back which rolled the pitbull onto his back against my chest, and I held him in a position where he couldn't escape, nor could he bite me. The owner ran over, grabbed his dog by the collar, and as he dragged the dog all the way down the street and across it then out of sight, he was hitting the dog in the head as hard as he could and cursing at it. I wonder why it's aggressive!?! Paw Paw was OK, not even a slight loss of fur, so no need to use a gun. Most people wouldn't have known what to do because 1. you're trying to control your two dogs right next to a busy street and wouldn't want your dogs to run into traffic and get hit by cars, and 2. a lot of people fear pitbulls and the last thing they want to do is fight with one using only their bare hands. But yeah, I didn't have my gun on me this time, and I honestly would not have used it if I did. Now, if that owner wasn't around and the dog kept attacking my dogs and I was unable to scare it off or beat it off, if I had my gun, I probably would've shot it before it seriously hurt my dogs or myself.

_**DISCLAIMER: for those who might think I'm singling out pitbulls as a breed, please know that I have nothing against them (I actually like them a lot!) and would own one with no problem (I've been looking into rescuing one someday). I DO have something against any aggressive, off-lead dog regardless of breed, and any dog/owner team who breaks the law when I do all I can to ensure that we are obeying them, to include picking up your dog's poop on walks and at the dog park! HAHA!!!*_

As for the fence, if I had the money, I would and hopefully will before we move in 3 years. A nice tall 6' wooden privacy fence would be nice. Not sure how much they cost, but I've been told that they are cheaper than the chainlink fence we currently have.

Thanks for the input!


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

If the dog is known to attack, then yes, I would. My family/pets/livestock/life is more important than that dogs.

Here the dog would have to be showing aggression or going after something. Here it is legal to shoot a dog if it is endangering the lives of others. 

I'm amazed that is seems so many people wouldn't protect themselves or their loved ones by whatever means needed..but, I guess if you feel safe. It has nothing to do with being gun happy either, I don't see why people always jump to that when the topic is brought up. Can we say paranoid? There is such a thing as responsible ownership and using good judgment. I don't think anyone on here would shoot a dog "just 'cause".

Whoever said "Karma is a Bitch"...that only works if you believe in it, I don't so 




> ...and owning a gun isn't something to brag about.


...and owning a pit bull isn't something to brag about.

...and owning a husky isn't something to brag about.

...and owning a .........

The thing guns dogs have in common? The person behind them....I do not own guns, my husband does, why is being proud of what one bad? Please, explain to me why it isn't something to brag about? My inlaws sit about and talk about it all the time, they buy sell and trade and collect. Other than the fact that its a gun, give me a reason why its bad to like and brag about what you have?


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I honestly can't say what I would do for sure, but I want to say I would shoot to save a life. If I saw a dog about to attack I would try to scare it away, but I know how they can be so focused that it wouldn't phase them. 

I had a terrible experience where my dog and I were attacked by two dogs-one was a Pit Bull and the other was a Rottie.. My dog nearly died and I lost the tip of my index finger. The attacking dog lost her life several months later because her owner was irresponsible and left her loose all the time. To this day I feel guilty about that. And to this day I have fears from that attack. Those fears affect how I manage my dogs today. So I can't say for sure because I very well could freeze up completely, just because of my existing fears. 

Hopefully you can get help from AC or other agencies to prevent something from happening to start with. I am trying to get my landlord to install the 6' privacy fence he promised as it would prevent my dogs from barking at the new neighbors and other dogs.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I sure hope people realize there are steps that can be taken between complaining about a dog on a webboard and shooting it.
> 
> Anytime I see a loose dog I call the police first (mostly to see if anything called about their dog being missing) and then AC (to come pick it up).
> 
> If I lived next to someone that had a dog that caused me concern for my or my animals safety I would access the situation first. Do they have good control over the dog? If not, I call AC and MEET them at my place to SHOW them how the dog concerns me and let AC take it from there.


Yes, definitely. I've called them before when a strange GSD was running around my neighborhood. I know all of the dogs who live here, and I had never seen this dog. The police and AC let me know that, unless the dog is currently attacking someone or something, that they were unable to respond. I tried to get the dog to come over to me so I could check for tags and help get him back home, so I was tossing him treats. As he got closer, he started growling and showing teeth, and I was wearing my dress blues uniform (basically a suit and tie) on the way to work, so I didn't want to get dirty. I had to let him run off and follow him in my car to ensure he didn't attack anyone or anything, until he ran out of sight and I could no longer follow him. I later found out that he was a rescued GSD who was new to the neighborhood, and the owners didn't even realize he got out.

Another time, my wife was taking Paw Paw for a walk and got to the bottom of our driveway and guess who was there waiting? That same GSD. I had to come out and chase it away so my wife didn't have a situation on her hands. I sure wish those people would take better care of their dog and not let it keep escaping.

But calling the police and AC seems worthless out here. Why does it have to take an attack in progress to justify them responding? A big loose dog roaming a neighborhood where children walk to the bus stop every day should be enough. O well. I'll do what I have to to keep myself, my family and my neighborhood safe at all times, with or without the help of the police and AC. But I'll always call them first to see if they are willing to help.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

counter said:


> So you're saying that there's no crime in Canada? Or at least not enough crime to justify a "right to bear arms?" My wife and I have discussed moving to Canada. It looks beautiful up there. It's like an extension of Oregon and Washington: green trees and white mountains all year round!
> 
> But what about bears and wolves and coyotes and any other wild predator that comes on your property with the intent to maim or kill? You aren't allowed to shoot them either? If anything comes on my property trying to harm or kill my kids or dogs, regardless of whether it's a human, domesticated dog, coyote, bobcat, etc., if I couldn't scare it away first, I would kill it as a last resort.


I live in 'murder city' of canada and I walk Chrono late at night and I've never had any trouble. I think it's too cold for people to commit crimes, . Things do happen, but it's usually stabbings, not shootings, so carrying a gun is a bit excessive. The stupidest thing is that it's illegal to carry or own things like mace, pepper spray, tazers, etc. 

I don't think we're allowed to shoot those things either within city limits, but it's incredibly rare for those things to be in the city anyway. I've only seen coyotes when they were dead on the highway, and bears and wolves only in the zoo :laugh:. A cougar came into the city once, but people just call animal control and they came and killed it. They are always on duty. Since guns have to be locked up and unloaded, you'd have to go inside of your house to get the gun and shoot the animal, so I don't think 'self-defense' would work since you were technically safe once you retreated into your house. If your kid or dog was in the backyard and a wild animal came, I think your kid/dog would be pretty dead by the time you came back out with a gun, even if it was loaded and wasn't locked up.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> Things do happen, but *it's usually stabbings, not shootings, so carrying a gun is a bit excessive*. The stupidest thing is that it's illegal to carry or own things like mace, pepper spray, tazers, etc.


Im sorry, but this made me laugh. Getting stabbed will kill you just as quickly as a gunshot wound. A gun for self defense when someone is coming after you with a knife is not excessive, it's SMART. 
I'm sure stabbing victims wished they were carrying something to defend themselves, and probably something bigger and better than a knife....like a gun. 



Konotashi said:


> And whoever said that they would never shoot a dog chasing their dog - what if you were in my shoes? Your dog is an 8 lb. Pomeranian. What if the dog chasing your 8 lb. Pom is a 120 lb. rottweiler? I'd be glad to shoot it or hit it with a tire iron if it meant keeping Ozzy safe. I know a lot of people here aren't 'small dog' people, but that's one way to look at it.


I totally agree with you here. I take my Pom (7lb) and Chihuahua (5lb) on walks. It scares me sometimes to even let an off leash bigger dog come and greet them, even when I know he is usually friendly. One chomp, one split second, and my dog is dead. 

If a strange big dog was in my backyard, I WILL NOT take the *chance* that he MIGHT be playing if I had any suspicion that he was aggressive (which the OP did in his situation). I will error on the side of caution. Now, it would take an actual act of aggression for me to shoot the dog. But I'm not going to flirt with disaster and think a strange dog's behavior might be "playing" and not take measures to ensure my dogs' safety.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I should have worded my post a bit differently. I was at the park once with Ozzy. He was being chased by a pit bull. First time he'd ever met this pit bull. The owner and his family was there with their other dog. I also had Sania with me. The four dogs were all playing. Pit bull and Ozzy were playing - pit bull starts chasing Ozzy. Playfully. Obviously wouldn't have hurt this pit bull because he wasn't being aggressive toward Ozzy, she was playing with him. But if she'd come out of the bushes snarling, hackles raised, Ozzy bolted with his tails in between his legs, he yelps - I think his life is in danger, then I'm going to do anything I can to keep her away from him. I don't have a gun on me so I'm going to put myself in danger to protect him. Call me stupid, but I fare a much better chance against that pit bull than Ozzy does. Plus I couldn't live with myself if I didn't do everything I could to prevent him from getting hurt. Even if the pit bull went after Sania I'd try to stop the bully. 
I'm rambling now. Point is, if I think my dog's in danger, I'm going to do what I can to prevent it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Laurie, those are excellent suggestions IF you have AC that will DO something. 

GSDolch, why bragging about guns was never considered a good idea, is that when I was young, we lived in Cleveland, Ohio. My father forbid us to tell ANYONE about his guns. Word gets around. People will come specifically to STEAL your guns. 

The chance burglar will leave if they hear a dog and if they don't they will grab the TV, the stereo, other saleable items, and if they find guns it is a bonus. 

But when someone KNOWS you have guns, they will not care about your dogs, they will come prepared to kill them or seriously injure them. They will wait until they know you will be gone, and they will come and clean you out. 

Sitting around bragging about your guns would most likely get you burgled pretty quick even here in the sticks.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Klamari said:


> Im sorry, but this made me laugh. Getting stabbed will kill you just as quickly as a gunshot wound. A gun for self defense when someone is coming after you with a knife is not excessive, it's SMART.
> I'm sure stabbing victims wished they were carrying something to defend themselves, and probably something bigger and better than a knife....like a gun.


But you have to be close enough to actually get stabbed. If you are reasonably aware of your surroundings, you won't end up that close to a stranger. If someone is 20 feet away from me and tells me to give them my stuff and all they have is a knife, then I'm running. If they have a gun, that's different. You can run(and dodge) pretty successfully from a knife, you can't run from a bullet. And legally, it's excessive. If you shoot and kill someone who was only carrying a knife, you will need a really good lawyer.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

it's been proven that even a trained police officer can be killed by a knife suspect within 10 feet. someone isn't going to try to mug you with a knife from 20 feet away.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

selzer said:


> Laurie, those are excellent suggestions IF you have AC that will DO something.
> 
> GSDolch, why bragging about guns was never considered a good idea, is that when I was young, we lived in Cleveland, Ohio. My father forbid us to tell ANYONE about his guns. Word gets around. People will come specifically to STEAL your guns.
> 
> ...



I guess...its a more reasonable excuse anyways. However I have found the opposite to be true, they know you got guns so they stay away. It could be due to area..if someone breaks into your home in this state, you can shoot and kill them legally.

I wouldn't say to go around telling everyone about the guns, but they are an active topic around here and it is pretty unheard of to not know someone with guns. Of course, 10years ago the kids at the highschool could have their hunting guns in their trucks on school property to go hunting after school (during season)

Could be due to area though


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

GSDolch said:


> If the dog is known to attack, then yes, I would. My family/pets/livestock/life is more important than that dogs.
> 
> Here the dog would have to be showing aggression or going after something. Here it is legal to shoot a dog if it is endangering the lives of others.
> 
> ...


 
Its perfectly fine to brag about owning a dog of any breed. If you talk about it with friends and family then thats fine, but not out in public, braggin about owning a gun in a public place can send people the wrong message about you.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

selzer said:


> Laurie, those are excellent suggestions IF you have AC that will DO something.
> 
> GSDolch, why bragging about guns was never considered a good idea, is that when I was young, we lived in Cleveland, Ohio. My father forbid us to tell ANYONE about his guns. Word gets around. People will come specifically to STEAL your guns.
> 
> ...


This is what another reason not to brag about guns. Most Guns are also alot more easier to handle than most dogs.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

selzer said:


> GSDolch, why bragging about guns was never considered a good idea, is that when I was young, we lived in Cleveland, Ohio. My father forbid us to tell ANYONE about his guns. Word gets around. People will come specifically to STEAL your guns.


I can see that happening in some instances. But where I live, it's a pretty good crime deterant to know that most people in this area have at least one gun in their house, and arent afraid to use it if their lives are threatened. Knowing that you might pick the wrong house, and a guy meets you at the bedroom door with a shotgun would be a little scary for most burglers. And the burglers know they wont win a lawsuit against the home owner down here. Laws are too much on property owners' side. But I can't speak for other places, that's just how it is around here. We might not have as many bold gang bangers. 



Dainerra said:


> it's been proven that even a trained police officer can be killed by a knife suspect within 10 feet. someone isn't going to try to mug you with a knife from 20 feet away.


So true. I know muggers arent exactly the brightest bulbs in the box...but really, anyone with a lick of common sense is not going to stand 20ft away from you, brandishing a knife, telling you to drop your stuff. They're going to run up to you, and get in your face. 
I would run away though, from a knife or a gun (in the instance that I have nothing to defend myself with). Ill take my chances that they are going to miss with either, rather than surrender to the mugging and take my chances on their benevolence.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> And legally, it's excessive. If you shoot and kill someone who was only carrying a knife, you will need a really good lawyer.


That is entirely dependent on where you live. Here, most laws are structured to be very much in favor with the victim.This is not a mugging situation, I know, but just an example....If someone is on my property, threatening me with a club, I have the legal right to shoot and kill them. It all depends on where you live. Personally, I like laws that favor the victim. Requiring people to fight fair (he brings a knife, you have to bring a knife) when they are the victim of a crime is stupid.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Its perfectly fine to brag about owning a dog of any breed. If you talk about it with friends and family then thats fine, but not out in public, braggin about owning a gun in a public place can send people the *wrong message about you*.



I will agree with you in as far as that can depend on your area...around here almost EVERYONE owns guns and its not unheard to to strike up a convo with someone sitting in the dr office on what type of guns one owns. 

My guess is you are thinking bragging means going around "yeah man I gotz me a big ol gun I can use to shoot people with, yeah man yeah" or whatever.

I think you are confusing bragging and cocky.

Owning a certain breed of dog or dressing a certain way can send the wrong message about you too.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I agree with GSDolch. It's a common topic of conversation around here as well. And highly unlikely that someone would break in just to get your guns. Because they are in almost every home, why target someone just for that? Also the fact that a home with a gun means that you will be shot if someone IS home.


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## Kagogi (Nov 12, 2010)

Guns are so common here, the local auto dealer had a special "Buy a truck, get a FREE gun!". Where you live can definitely effect what conversations are appropriate and what aren't. Here, it'd probably be more inappropriate to declare in front of everyone that you're a vegetarian. 

And as much as I hate to say it, I'm pro shooting loose, troublesome dogs. I've had my entire breeding stock of bunnies wiped out by a dog. We had repeatedly called animal control. We got no help at all. We beefed up our fences and even added some around the hutches. Still didn't save them. I really hope no one else ever has to pick up their prized female and her brand new babies off the lawn, ripped to shreds and bunny pieces everywhere. Had I owned a gun at the time, I would have gladly stayed up all night to save the female that meant the world to me (not that I didn't care for the others, but she was so special to me). 

In addition to the rabbits I lost, I also have a family member who chose to break up a dog fight. He's a total dog lover and didn't want to use lethal force. I think he misses his arm. 

Oh and counter, that uniform isn't as protective as many people seem to think. Kagogi was able to bite and draw blood no problem...at 13 weeks old. If a puppy can bite through it, I wouldn't have too much faith in it!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I live in the LA county which is known to have gangs and such. When someone has a gun they automatically think gang member crazy person.

The way someone dresses and what ever dog breed someone else has doesn't determine the kind of person someone is. Guns are different than the way someone dresses and a breed of dog.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Jessie, again it depends on your area. Here, what type of gun you own is as much a saying about who you are as what kind of car you drive. I don't think anyone has ever asked "do you own a gun" - it's "what kind of gun do you got" It just a natural assumption that EVERYONE owns a gun. So their interest is: long gun? revolver? semi-auto? etc It's how they define who you are - a hunter? a sport shooter? Wanna come out to my place and shoot some pigeons (clays)? Gonna come up to the deer woods - I've got a great spot! It's a manner of finding and bonding with people that you have something in common with.

No different than seeing someone wearing a shirt of your favorite sports team and saying "How bout them Hogs!"
This statement "When someone has a gun they automatically think gang member crazy person." made me laugh. Here, the crazy folks are the ones WITHOUT guns


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I live in the LA county which is known to have gangs and such. When someone has a gun they automatically think gang member crazy person.
> 
> The way someone dresses and what ever dog breed someone else has doesn't determine the kind of person someone is. Guns are different than the way someone dresses and a breed of dog.



No,no its not different. Some places a pit = dog fighter and gangy, lots of tattoos and piercings? = druggy and felon, etc etc etc.

You are limiting your experiences and view to just your area of living.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I sure hope people realize there are steps that can be taken between complaining about a dog on a webboard and shooting it.
> 
> Anytime I see a loose dog I call the police first (mostly to see if anything called about their dog being missing) and then AC (to come pick it up).
> 
> ...


HERE if you call the police, they will not come out unless you catch the dog and contain it....no thanks. I am not going to catch a strange dog over 50# and if you call AC after 5 they are all gone. 

As far as putting up a 6 ft wooden fence, over 10 yrs ago it cost me $1700 to fence in once side of my property, the rest was already fenced. 
You might save some money if you get post hole digger and put it up yourself because I know they charged around $700 for labor!
We used to have a dog in the neighborhood who could jump their 6 ft fence. I saw him do it, couldnt believe it


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> Jessie, again it depends on your area. Here, what type of gun you own is as much a saying about who you are as what kind of car you drive. I don't think anyone has ever asked "do you own a gun" - it's "what kind of gun do you got" It just a natural assumption that EVERYONE owns a gun. So their interest is: long gun? revolver? semi-auto? etc It's how they define who you are - a hunter? a sport shooter? *Wanna come out to my place and shoot some pigeons (clays)?* Gonna come up to the deer woods - I've got a great spot! It's a manner of finding and bonding with people that you have something in common with.


So true. My uncle got a skeet shooter a couple years ago and I don't think we have had a family gathering go by yet when they (and me sometimes) aren't out in the back shooting pigeons. I like it, keeps the boys occupied 



Dainerra said:


> No different than seeing someone wearing a shirt of your favorite sports team and saying "How bout them Hogs!"
> This statement "When someone has a gun they automatically think gang member crazy person." made me laugh. *Here, the crazy folks are the ones WITHOUT guns* .


I agree with that, but just to clarify for those who don't live in states with TX, Arkansas, and TN gun laws.....most people dont carry huge handguns in their wastbands wherever they go (like gangbangers). If someone has a concealed handgun, you don't see it!! So you would never know. Responsible gun owners do not wave guns around in public and we dont shoot at just anything we feel like. We might talk about them, but you dont see anyone just walking down the street with a handgun. Even in states where open carry is legal, you dont see it that often.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Judge Mackey here in Ashtabula County suggested that everyone get a gun, it was in the newspaper. Just about everyone out here does. 

Guns are not bad. They do not make people bad. Seeing someone with a gun does not make them bad.

My neice is three years old, and goes to school with her sister who just turned four.

Anyhow a few months back, her sister was in time out, and the younger was NOT happy about it and said to her teacher, "My Grandpa has a gun!" Where she got that, I have no clue, but you never know what will come out of kids mouths.

My sister got a note home from their teacher. The girls were playing some game pretending to have guns and shooting each other. The teacher said she had a zero policy on guns. My sister said she did not, but that they could learn not to do it here. The thing is, they LEARNED the game from kids THERE. They do not watch TV at all, only movies and musicals that my sister watches WITH them. So they do not see people shooting each other all day long. But whatever. Kids for centuries played war and the vast majority did not turn out to be evil serial killers, robbers, bullies.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Selzer, on your last part, I agree very much. My cousins and I would always place cops/robbers/cowboy/indians. As we got older we got water guns, then nerf guns and shot each other with them, it was fun  and we are pretty sane.....ish


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

GSDolch said:


> No,no its not different. Some places a pit = dog fighter and gangy, lots of tattoos and piercings? = druggy and felon, etc etc etc.
> 
> You are limiting your experiences and view to just your area of living.


You said it had to do with your area, and I told you I live in the LA County near Compton, Bellflower, and all the other cties that have gang violence. I went to school with some gang members and people who knew gang members. Here people assume that if you have a gun, you are either a gang member, convict, or crazy person. Do I think that? No, I don't always assume someone has a gun. Yet, even the most unsuspecting people have them. 

Do I hate guns?No. My grandpa used to have them back in the day. He has dementia now. My dad's stepdad, has them(I know I am being a little hypocritical here.) and he is a drunk and threatened my dad with them.You would think after my dad being threatened I would be anti-gun. Will I own a gun? I don't know yet. Doesn't meant I hate them, and I NEVER said I hated them and that they were bad. I am NOT anti-gun either. I was in my government class where we had debates on different topics, I was on the pro-gun side, because they presented more logical facts and reasoning for allowing guns.

But a gun,no matter what type you have or where you live, should NOT determine the kind of person you are.But sometimes it does sadly.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

There are appropriate ways to deal with dogs that are a threat to safety. Legal wyas. Shooting the nighbor's dog is not legal unless the dog is physically threatening you and you are afraid for your safety. 

I would hope that since this is a very real concern of yours that you have been working with local law enforcement tabout this. 

I would have to be seriously threatened to harm my neighbor's dogs. Yes they can drive me nuts with barking but that is a different story. 

Remember the guy that shot the dog in the dog park? He was charged and tried and found guilty even tho he said he was defending his dog. Take care with firearms in city limits.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> Jessie, again it depends on your area. Here, what type of gun you own is as much a saying about who you are as what kind of car you drive. I don't think anyone has ever asked "do you own a gun" - it's "what kind of gun do you got" It just a natural assumption that EVERYONE owns a gun. So their interest is: long gun? revolver? semi-auto? etc It's how they define who you are - a hunter? a sport shooter? Wanna come out to my place and shoot some pigeons (clays)? Gonna come up to the deer woods - I've got a great spot! It's a manner of finding and bonding with people that you have something in common with.


 
So very true. We are from Texas. Anytime we are in a social setting and the conversation gets a little slow, someone brings up firearms. It rarely goes to political views - always to what they have and what they do with it and where they go to do it. Even when you are not in Texas - people just assume you have firearms if you live in Texas. Fine by me.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

When I said what kind of person you are, I meant personality wise.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> There are appropriate ways to deal with dogs that are a threat to safety. Legal wyas. Shooting the nighbor's dog is not legal unless the dog is physically threatening you and you are afraid for your safety.
> 
> I would hope that since this is a very real concern of yours that you have been working with local law enforcement about this.


Actually, in most rural areas around here, it is perfectly legal to shoot a strange dog on your property that is threatening your livestock, or other animals. The dog doesn't have to be threatening you, just your livestock. 

And I'm pretty sure someone mentioned this before, but it is all well and good to call AC or the cops for this kind of problem......IF they will respond!! If AC doesn't respond to your calls, what then? Im not going to sit around waiting for AC when a strange dog (who I know to be aggressive) is in my yard, chasing my dog. I'm going to take care of the problem myself. And if it gets to the point that a strange dog is aggresively going after my dog, and AC isn't there, I will shoot the dog.



Lilie said:


> Even when you are not in Texas - people just assume you have firearms if you live in Texas. Fine by me.


On a side note.....I get that all the time too. When my cousins from Chicago come to visit, one of the the first things they want to know is "how many guns do you have?!"..... uummmm, a couple. No, you can't touch them.


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## Miikkas mom (Dec 21, 2009)

Years ago we lived next near a couple of “barkers.” This neighbor had 2 dogs. One was a Malamute the other was a Samoyed. The owner left the dogs outside during the day. They both barked on and off all day long. On weekends the dogs’ owner was home so usually they did not bark so much on weekends. 

For several days in a row the Samoyed was acting very strangely. It was howling, moaning, barking, and crying all at the same time. From my kitchen window, I could look down into the yard where the dogs lived. Our house was up on a hill and their backyard was down in a little valley so I had a clear shot of the dogs. The Samoyed was chasing his tail and crying. It was clear he wasn’t chasing his tail out of boredom, something was wrong with it. I walked down to their house to talk to them but no one was home. On the second day of this going on, I couldn’t take it anymore so I called animal control and the county sheriff’s office. From my kitchen window I watched as animal control and the sheriff loaded the dogs into a van and drove away. I didn’t hear anything more, until about 3 months later. 

About 3 months later there is a knock on our front door. I answered it and some guy hands me a summons to appear in court. The county was taking the dog’s owner to court on animal cruelty charges. At the time, I didn’t know what he (the owner) did for the county to press these kinds of charges.

When I got inside the courtroom I sat down next to a nice looking couple. Turns out they were the folks who rescued the Samoyed. After introductions, the first thing they did was thank me for called the sheriffs office. They told me that the Samoyed was full of maggots. He had a small wound on his belly and maggots had infested him – both internally and externally. He was probably running in circles because he was in pain. He was at the vet hospital for almost a month before he could go to the rescue home. They said it was a miracle the dog survived. Anyway, I testified and then left. Through the grapevine I found out that the owner was found guilty and was fined $3000.00 (probably the vet bill – this was about 12 years ago). 

So, instead of shooting a dog call law enforcement instead. It’s usually not the dogs fault but the owners fault.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> There are appropriate ways to deal with dogs that are a threat to safety. Legal wyas. Shooting the nighbor's dog is not legal unless the dog is physically threatening you and you are afraid for your safety.
> 
> I would hope that since this is a very real concern of yours that you have been working with local law enforcement tabout this.
> 
> ...


I just wanted to point out again that it depends on your area. In most rural areas it is perfectly legal to shoot stray dogs. I posted some links to the actual laws in WV, for instance. Calling local law enforcement will get you nothing except "shoot the dog" If the animal is gone, they will contact the owner (if you know who it is) and give them a warning. The warning will be "Next time your dog is loose, it will be shot on sight"


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I used to live in rural Oklahoma many years ago. We moved to Kentucky, then Oregon and back to Oklahoma. 

While living in rural OK we 2 cattle dogs that would come after us on walks and threaten us in the road. The Pittsburg county sheriff said shoot them! WTF!!!! There were houses with little kids in the yards less than 200 yards away. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND discharges a firearm that close to children!!!!! 

Yes the law may be on your side if the dog is threatening you or your livestock but I would still consider what you are doing. 

BTW Oklahoma is probably one of the most red neck, back woods stupid places I have ever lived and cannot wait tli the next move out of here. We live in town this time around but the place is still nuts. My hubby and I are dyed in the wool gun owners but with that come a grave responsibility.

I have been on this board since 2002 and it is stuff like this that keeps me from posting often anymore. I had not posted for about 2 months until today. I guess it may be 3 months til next time.This board has gotten too full of hot heads.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> While living in rural OK we 2 cattle dogs that would come after us on walks and threaten us in the road. The Pittsburg county sheriff said shoot them! WTF!!!! There were houses with little kids in the yards less than 200 yards away. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND discharges a firearm that close to children!!!!! .


A dog attacks me or my dogs on the road, I am going to shoot the dog!! Not the house full of kids! Before you ever shoot a gun, it is wise to have at least a little bit of training from someone who knows what theyre talking about plus some common sense. 
WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would shoot TOWARDS a house?!?! You shoot the dog. As in from a standing height, towards the ground. Of course, anyone with a brain would not shoot the dog while he was in line with the house. Wait until you have a line without the house full of kids behind it, then shoot. I'm pretty sure a bullet goes in a straight line most of the time.
That kind of comment is insulting to people who know their way around guns and put a lot of effort into making sure they are safe with their firearms. 



Kayos and Havoc said:


> *BTW Oklahoma is probably one of the most red neck, back woods stupid places I have ever lived and cannot wait tli the next move out of here.* We live in town this time around but the place is still nuts. My hubby and I are dyed in the wool gun owners but with that come a grave responsibility.
> 
> I have been on this board since 2002 and it is stuff like this that keeps me from posting often anymore. I had not posted for about 2 months until today. I guess it may be 3 months til next time.*This board has gotten too full of hot heads.*


And that comment about Oklahoma means you are the most level-headed, calm person on this board, huh? That was in no way a rash comment at all! 

Ok......Im finished


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Miikkas mom said:


> Years ago we lived next near a couple of “barkers.” This neighbor had 2 dogs. One was a Malamute the other was a Samoyed. The owner left the dogs outside during the day. They both barked on and off all day long. On weekends the dogs’ owner was home so usually they did not bark so much on weekends.
> 
> For several days in a row the Samoyed was acting very strangely. It was howling, moaning, barking, and crying all at the same time. From my kitchen window, I could look down into the yard where the dogs lived. Our house was up on a hill and their backyard was down in a little valley so I had a clear shot of the dogs. The Samoyed was chasing his tail and crying. It was clear he wasn’t chasing his tail out of boredom, something was wrong with it. I walked down to their house to talk to them but no one was home. On the second day of this going on, I couldn’t take it anymore so I called animal control and the county sheriff’s office. From my kitchen window I watched as animal control and the sheriff loaded the dogs into a van and drove away. I didn’t hear anything more, until about 3 months later.
> 
> ...


As disgusting as it is, maggots eating the dead skin was probably a good thing. I guess they found that the soldiers in the Civil war I think, the ones whose wounds were infested with maggots, they healed much quicker than the others. 

I would have to be unconscious, but the use of medical maggots is not new. 

While it may not be the dog's fault, what do you do when law enforcement will not even show up? 

I have never shot any dog, I had one in my back yard about a month ago, I found the owner and contained the dog until he came and got the dog. But if I felt an animal was threatening one of my critters on my property, well it would have to go. 

The dog park thing is just so different. Dogs are there because their owners care about them. A stray dog in your yard going after your dogs, well, maybe there is an owner somewhere that cares about the dog, and maybe not, but I care about mine, and your dog should be safe in your own back yard. 

Again, if I can get that dog outta there some other way, as I did, then I would definitely -- The dog was only in the back yard because I left the gate open while I was mowing the yard, and the dog came in while I was mowing. 

It sounds like there are more people who would let a human drown so they can save their dog on this site, than there are who will kill a dog so they could save their dog. Weird.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Errrr, what the heck is a gang banger. I see it used on this board a lot. Judging by the context, it seems to mean a gang member. But where I live, a gang banger would be one who participates in gang banging, which is when several people rape one person. 

Using it to refer to a gang member is... weird. :crazy:


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> Errrr, what the heck is a gang banger. I see it used on this board a lot. Judging by the context, it seems to mean a gang member. But where I live, a gang banger would be one who participates in gang banging, which is when several people rape one person.
> 
> Using it to refer to a gang member is... weird. :crazy:


Ya know, now that I look at it that way, your definition makes more sense. But I understood it to be just another name for active gang members. So in my post, yes, that's what I meant


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Klamari said:


> Ya know, now that I look at it that way, your definition makes more sense. But I understood it to be just another name for active gang members. So in my post, yes, that's what I meant


Whew, that's what I thought . I kept thinking, "Either that's another way to say 'gang members' or there are a heck of a lot of gang rapists in the US :crazy:"


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

lol syaoran...just a use of terms I guess, here is basically means the same thing.



> WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND discharges a firearm that close to children!!!!!


Soooo, in a really bad case, I should just watch and scream as a dog attacks one of those kids? What if there is more than one? What if its a pack running around? My ex inlaws had a big scare when my ex husband was a toddler, he was just off the porch on their farm, about 6 loose dogs known to be dangerous surrounded him. Guess what..they SHOT THE DOGS. And guess what, he was right there.

You seem to think that gun ownership and willing to protect someone from something dangerous = hot head?

I have yet to just randomly go around shooting people...do I have an excuse now?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

That was what I always thought it meant too, but I did not have the nerve to come out and say it.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> Whew, that's what I thought . I kept thinking, "Either that's another way to say 'gang members' or there are a heck of a lot of gang rapists in the US :crazy:"


Sorry, I watch too much TV. And National Geographic has some very interesting shows about gangs. I probably heard it there


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

it started as "someone who killed people for the gang"
now it pretty much means any gang member


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Klamari said:


> A dog attacks me or my dogs on the road, I am going to shoot the dog!! Not the house full of kids! Before you ever shoot a gun, it is wise to have at least a little bit of training from someone who knows what theyre talking about plus some common sense.


No kidding???! I guess I probably do have some experience here being I have handled firearms a good part of my adult life. 





> WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would shoot TOWARDS a house?!?! You shoot the dog. As in from a standing height, towards the ground. Of course, anyone with a brain would not shoot the dog while he was in line with the house. Wait until you have a line without the house full of kids behind it, then shoot. I'm pretty sure a bullet goes in a straight line most of the time.
> That kind of comment is insulting to people who know their way around guns and put a lot of effort into making sure they are safe with their firearms.


Sorry I would NEVER shoot near a house kids. Forget inline with, around, near, upside down or inside out. You don't shoot guns any where near kids. They call it firearm safety and one of the first things you learn in class related to bearing firearms.


[QOUTE] And that comment about Oklahoma means you are the most level-headed, calm person on this board, huh? That was in no way a rash comment at all! 

[/QUOTE] No it wasn't rash, you ever live here in Pittsburg County? Give it a try one day. Then again life may be the same where you live and that may be perfectly acceptable to you, it is not acceptable to me.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Sorry, but I have family that live in OK and they are NOT red necks or stupid. 

I am not against firearms as long as you use them properly and when need be. I can see how people out in the country would need one. Would I care if my friend has one?No. as long as they aren't idiots when it comes to them. They are a weapon, and need to be used responsibly.

When I said gang member I was referring to the people of who are part of the Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings and other gangs I can't think of. Its really sad though, recently on Halloween a little boy was shot and killed while having a get together with his family, the kid wasn't the target, and they still haven't found his killers yet.I hear about these stories all to often, almost everyday.

There is a reason we have gun buy backs here, you would be surprised(maybe not) of the type of guns people actually bring to those kind of events.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> Sorry I would NEVER shoot near a house kids. Forget inline with, around, near, upside down or inside out. You don't shoot guns any where near kids. They call it firearm safety and one of the first things you learn in class related to bearing firearms.


So if it was a house full of innocent adults you would be ok with shooting a gun? What about of house full of innocent elderly? 
Whether there was a people near by or not, would you let a stray dog kill your own dog? what if you had your own kids with you? would you let the dog attack YOUR kids just because there is a very, very small risk of POSSIBLY firing towards the house? 

Police fire guns in residential areas all the time. It is a risk, yes, but sometimes, a necesary risk. 

My 15 and 16 year old brothers and cousins shoot skeet and go deer hunting often. They are "kids". Guns are being fired around them and they are firing guns. Would you include this in "You don't shoot guns any where near kids."?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

If someone is going to shoot off a gun near kids they better know how to use it better have a darn good reason.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> If someone is going to shoot off a gun near kids they better know how to use it better have a darn good reason.


That was my whole point. A person without any training or common sense (to not shoot towards a house) shouldnt even have a gun in their hands, period. If you are going to freak out and start shooting randomly, you shouldnt have a gun in the first place. I know if I was in that situation, I would have enough presence of mind to not shoot towards people. That's what training in gun safety is for!!! So you can safetly use a firearm, with people present, and not hit someone!! 

A dog attacking me or my dogs seems like a darn good reason to me.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> There is a reason we have gun buy backs here, you would be surprised(maybe not) of the type of guns people actually bring to those kind of events.


We have secure drop boxes here in Houston. Anyone can drop off a gun, no questions asked. Yeah, some pretty scary stuff gets left in those boxes.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Klamari said:


> We have secure drop boxes here in Houston. Anyone can drop off a gun, no questions asked. Yeah, some pretty scary stuff gets left in those boxes.


There were assault rifles guns that looked like they were from star wars. I was like what the heck!

And yes, if you can use a gun properly and safely then its ok to shoot near children if need be.


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## Hercules (Aug 1, 2010)

I was walking my dog when what I thought was a coyote almost attacked us, he was fixed on my dog but I made sure it didn't get near him, I took my dog home and grabbed my rifle, I went outside, locked and loaded and had my sights fixed on the 'coyote'(I sure as **** was going to kill it because being aggressive towards a big GSD and a 160 pound man is dangerous, especially to the little kids that run around outside in the neighborhood) but it turned out to be a dog and the next door neighbor of the house that owns the dog assured me that he was a dog and that he was trained and he wouldn't harm anyone, so I left him. so to answer your question yes, if I feel my dogs, the neighborhood kids', or my life to be in any sort of danger, I will kill a dog without a moments hesitation, especially if it acts just like a coyote and is wandering around outside at night without its owner or a collar or anything.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

So to wrap up this discussion from my end, I'd like to end on a positive note! I recently cancelled TV and internet to save money and to stop distracting myself from my real joys in life: my family, wife, kiddos, and pups. I'd rather be bonding with my dogs than typing about them to strangers on the internet. Granted, I'll still come online to ask questions and help answer other's questions. But I want to avoid wasting time with my E-friends when my real friends are laying at my feet! Haha.

1. My original post was a reply to a woman on a different board. She had to take her dog out at 4am to pee. She put it on a long lead in the front yard while she gathered laundry. The neighbor came home, slammed his car door across the street, not knowing her GSD was in the yard. The dog ran as far as it could on the lead, got to the end of her property right up by the road, and barked at the guy. It startled him and he yelled to her "put your dog inside or I'll shoot it!" Someone replied to her saying that she'd never threaten to shoot someone's dog. That's the quote in my original post, and I was replying to both of them. I might've misread her statement. Maybe she would never "threaten" as in send a warning first, but maybe she would shoot to kill a dog without warning if it was going to harm her, her family or her dog. Thinking about what she said got me to post my ESSAY about how I had to seriously contemplate a course of action against my neighbor's dog if it continued to jump my fence. The end result would be that I would shoot their dog if they, the police, and AC did nothing to assist. Luckily for that dog, it's not going to come to dying just to teach his owners a lesson. Here's why:

2. So, the positive note is that, although the neighbors laughed me off and acted like they weren't going to take action, well, they DID! We started putting Nara out with Paw Paw or the girls every time they were outside. Nara, although she's a big pushover and a big baby and lover and not a fighter, she's still GUARD DOG #1! Haha. Paw Paw thinks he's the alpha among the pack, but when he ticks her off during rough play, he knows it, and he runs for his life! Nara would kick his butt (if only she could catch him). She's the real alpha! The neighbors must've realized that I was serious when I said she would be out to ensure their pitbull never made it over the fence again. The next few times they brought him over, they either kept him in the car or tied him off to the bumper. I saw him roaming their front yard, but both brothers were out there watching him closely. I haven't seen him in many months, but as long as they keep this up, I don't have to worry about a thing. I would never want to feel forced to shoot any dog, so I'm grateful that they wised up!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

You know if a dog is ATTACKING your dog or a kid, or a senior citizen or an adult or anyone, the dog is in very close quarters with your loved one. If you intend to shoot that dog I sure hope you have great aim as you run the risk of shooting your own dog, kid, mother in law, grandma etc. Not a risk I want to take, I would rather step in myself and take a bite while pulling a dog off that run the risk of shooting an innocent. 

And don't forget that even in the country negligent discharge is still negligent disharge. 

Jessica, I live in southeast OK, they call McAlester "Methalester" for good reason. It is NOT a nice place to live, few want to work here, they would rather traffic drugs. However, 2 hours away Tulsa is a fine city. I like it there. As I am mobile for my job we live in lots of places and I gage how I like a place by whether or not I would consider it a place to retire. Southeast OK is NOT on any retirement list, but I could retire in Tulsa. I have never understood the mentality in Oklahoma it is just different that any place I have ever lived.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

I once was at a camp/party. I had my dog, a blind shepherd/lab. A dog came up, with out barking, growling, anything aggressive that I could see. He grabbed the back of my dogs neck, and Rock started crying, a god awful whine. I realized what happened, and the first time in my life I did not have a pocket knife. I then picked up a shovel and blasted this thing, he let go for a minute, and went back after my dog. I grabbed for a collar, which it did not have, it bit down on me. I* slugged this thing several times and dragged it into it a fire, where I held it as long as I could. 

The owners where leaving as fast as they could, both of my arms were bleeding, and my hand was busted from where the dog bit down. I went to my truck for a 30.06..I didnt see the dog again. its to bad.

I took several stiches, my dog took several stiches.. I will never *not* have a pockett knife again, MY dog has a large thick leather collar to protect as much of the back of his neck as I can..and about 45-50% of the time I have now have a .40 on me..YES, if this comes to happen again.. The other dog will not make it, and the only reason the last one did, I could keep ahold of it once it let go of me.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> You know if a dog is ATTACKING your dog or a kid, or a senior citizen or an adult or anyone, the dog is in very close quarters with your loved one. If you intend to shoot that dog I sure hope you have great aim as you run the risk of shooting your own dog, kid, mother in law, grandma etc. Not a risk I want to take, I would rather step in myself and take a bite while pulling a dog off that run the risk of shooting an innocent.
> 
> And don't forget that even in the country negligent discharge is still negligent disharge.


Obviously I'm not dumb and would never risk bringing harm to my dog or child while trying to shoot an attacking dog. I would make sure that the dog gets kicked far enough away, then put my body between my loved one and the aggressor, and shoot it if and only if I was 100% certain that I would not harm anything other than what I'm intending to kill. I know how to use a weapon. I'm active duty military and earned the Sharpshooter Rifle and Pistol Medals (was 1 point away from getting Expert; maybe next time I shoot/qualify I'll get it!), and also have my civilian concealed carry license. I'm pretty competent and can handle stressful situations like this. It would only be a last resort, but if I couldn't stop the dog with my bare hands or a stick or a brick or whatever I could find, it would get a bullet. It's a hypothetical situation, and no one knows how it would really play out until it happens, if it happens, but hopefully never will.

Shooting an aggressive dog that's attacking and trying to kill you or a loved one would not be deemed negligent discharge, it's called self-defense. Recreationally shooting at birds or squirrels in the yard probably would, but not trying to save your own life or the life of a loved one. Two completely different scenarios, one legal, one illegal, based on where you live.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Spent a few years on active duty myself and I shot expert.  

I am currently a DOD ammo/explosive safety specialist. I hope I understand composite risk management. 

No one called you or anyone else dumb. I think you have to make your own determiniation as to risk involved and in my opinion that is too much risk for me. I'll beat the animal off first. 

And if you chose to claim self defense it better be or else it is negligent disharge.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> Spent a few years on active duty myself and I shot expert.
> 
> I am currently a DOD ammo/explosive safety specialist. I hope I understand composite risk management.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think you were talking to everyone, so I didn't take what you wrote personally. I was just making the statement that "I'm no dummy!" and gave reasons to back it up. That was expressed to everyone, although I quoted you. Sorry for the confusion. 

They stopped letting us shoot at the range in the Air Force now, because of money and the economy. Only if you're about to deploy do they make it mandatory to shoot/qualify before you go overseas to a warzone. When I was in the Navy, we shot a few times a year because we were a special combat cargo handling command. We wore USMC-style BDUs and deployed alongside the Army and Marines all of the time: 14 deployments in 4 years. It was awesome!


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

I will for sure, kill a dog to protect my child or my dog, if necessary.

I do understand that sometime, accident can happen. I do understand that sometime, a dog can bite and this not mean he will do it again (depending on the bite).

But, if a dog is clearly problematic *AND* owners are problematic too than...I think that for the safety of a family, there is choices to make....

I have seen problematic dogs with good owners, people who work hard with the dog and are aware of the problem and take any mesure to make sure nothing bad happen. In this case, I wouldn't do anything. Responsible owners are the key.

On another hand....if owners are not responsible, this is when it start to be very dangerous and I will not take any chance someone could get hurt.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

just another truck said:


> I once was at a camp/party. I had my dog, a blind shepherd/lab. A dog came up, with out barking, growling, anything aggressive that I could see. He grabbed the back of my dogs neck, and Rock started crying, a god awful whine. I realized what happened, and the first time in my life I did not have a pocket knife. I then picked up a shovel and blasted this thing, he let go for a minute, and went back after my dog. I grabbed for a collar, which it did not have, it bit down on me.* I* slugged this thing several times and dragged it into it a fire, where I held it as long as I could. *
> 
> The owners where leaving as fast as they could, both of my arms were bleeding, and my hand was busted from where the dog bit down. I went to my truck for a 30.06..I didnt see the dog again. its to bad.
> 
> I took several stiches, my dog took several stiches.. I will never *not* have a pockett knife again, MY dog has a large thick leather collar to protect as much of the back of his neck as I can..and about 45-50% of the time I have now have a .40 on me..YES, if this comes to happen again.. The other dog will not make it, and the only reason the last one did, I could keep ahold of it once it let go of me.


Sorry, but this statement just disturbs me.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Ditto Jessica.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

just another truck said:


> I once was at a camp/party. I had my dog, a blind shepherd/lab. A dog came up, with out barking, growling, anything aggressive that I could see. He grabbed the back of my dogs neck, and Rock started crying, a god awful whine. I realized what happened, and the first time in my life I did not have a pocket knife. I then picked up a shovel and blasted this thing, he let go for a minute, and went back after my dog. I grabbed for a collar, which it did not have, it bit down on me. I* slugged this thing several times and *dragged it into it a fire, where I held it as long as I could. *
> 
> The owners where leaving as fast as they could, both of my arms were bleeding, and my hand was busted from where the dog bit down. I went to my truck for a 30.06..I didnt see the dog again. its to bad.
> 
> I took several stiches, my dog took several stiches.. I will never *not* have a pockett knife again, MY dog has a large thick leather collar to protect as much of the back of his neck as I can..and about 45-50% of the time I have now have a .40 on me..YES, if this comes to happen again.. The other dog will not make it, and the only reason the last one did, I could keep ahold of it once it let go of me.


That's... disturbing. It'd be one thing to bash its head in with a shovel, as horrible as that sounds. At least that'd be quick. But to cause that kind of pain and suffering? 
I know it attacked both you and your dog, but I don't think that holding it in a fire is okay. Period.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree, holding a dog in a fire is disgusting. Hope the hands were bleeding and burned. 

I don't know, but I must be living right, not to have had any of my dogs mauled by somebody else's dog, if you do not include my brother's dog that was living with me at the time of the problem. 

I cannot imagine loading my weapon and storing it in a handy place just in case some crazy aggressive dogs runs up and tries to eat me or my dog every time I go out of my house. 

I would kill a dog if there was no way around it, but so far that hasn't happened. It sounds like a lot of people would shoot a lot sooner than others might.

I do agree with Kathy though, you would almost have to shoot prior to the dog ever making contact to ensure your own dog's safety. And if you have time to go and get your gun and load it, why not just take your dog inside and then deal with the problem in a less violent way?

Part of the reason I never did shoot the Hound of the Baskervilles, is because maintaining control of my own dogs while hefting and pointing and shooting the shotgun in a direction that would not be toward the neighbor's house and kids, well would have been about as impossible as you could get.


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