# help with 150% prey driven walks



## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

I could sugar coat this right now but won't. I am typing with a wrapped wrist and hand because during our nice relaxing walk last night Roxy spotted something out of the corner of her eye and was gone. When I say she was gone I also mean that I was gone too...I will go down breaking a hip before I let go of her leash and lose her. All I can remember is being helped by the other pack walkers whose dogs obviously missed whatever it was. ( I will assume a rabbit or deer but I won't be 100% sure ever) 
Luckily it happened on grass and not the cement we had just left. 
We have gained soooooooooooo much ground in the last few months...there are a lot of you who have been on this walking nightmare/honeymoon journey with me. I am not sure what happened last night. 
How do you respond? I couldn't correct her..it happened to fast and all I was trying to do once it dawned on me I was going to get hurt was hang on to the leash and try to roll with it. I landed on my hand and am pretty sure it's jammed up to the last bunch of knuckles...will see my chiro later today.
I didn't scold her...it was over. Do I go back to the prong collar or would that have even stopped her in this mind boggling episode? :help:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes, go back to the prong collar.

Have you ever used a clicker to teach her to release to the pressure of hte leash?


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

Jax -- do you think in that instance a prong collar would have helped? Or just chocked her?? We had moved on from the prong and was doing so good.I am open to anything right now..I can't do this again. I did use a clicker when we first started training but haven't used it for a few months now


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It would have given her a really good correction! Here's the problem, she took off and you got hurt. She had no correction for it because it was self rewarding. So yes, I think most likely the prong would have helped. Put it back on her and get your clicker back out. And work on proofing the behavior you want (not chasing) by having someone throw balls and taking her places specifically to proof for such things as squirrels and wildlife.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

When I was working with mine with his dog reactivity the trainers always told me to always watch the dog and always keep them focused on you. If they aren't focused on you they are looking for trouble. The prong collar would help, at the very least slow the dog down.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> It would have given her a really good correction! Here's the problem, she took off and you got hurt. She had no correction for it because it was self rewarding. So yes, I think most likely the prong would have helped. Put it back on her and get your clicker back out. And work on proofing the behavior you want (not chasing) by having someone throw balls and taking her places specifically to proof for such things as squirrels and wildlife.


Pretty much prong. No point in getting a clicker back out at this point as the dog knows what to do she just doesnt necessarily care. If she took off shed have hit the end of the leash and the prong would have nailed her good. If you marked with a no and even punished with prong after to nail the point home it would have been ideal.

Never taking your eyes off the dog is not a bad idea either. You missed signs of her loading up for chase.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Agree with above. Cruz has a high prey drive also, but he went after whatever moved. Cars were bad at one point. We are still working through some things, but after using a tool to correct problem behaviors, he no longer even looks at cars. Birds was another he leaves alone now. As soon as he gets that focuse on whatever, it's a correction with an "off" command and praise after doing the command correctly. I also watch his focus as we walk cause he has done the same thing to me that has happened to you. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

baliff -- totally agree with EVERYTHING except there was NO warning....all the dogs were in a line formation ...going great....BAM I can not even explain how fast this happened...Normally I do see a chase coming and have been able to pull her back..do the NO, LEAVE it......this time there was NO warning. I swear to the deity of your choice...she caught this out of the corner of her eye and it even caught her off guard but the instinct to chase was too strong


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

the other walkers and their dogs were like what the **** just happened.


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

I am tempted to get a pair of horse blinders .... but I will do as you all suggest and get the prong back out. Have any of you used the leashes that attach around your waist? I have one of those I used to use...not sure if that would have made the situation last night better or worse. I guess I better put all the weight back on I lost


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

what's a good way to get focus on me? I do the check in thing..and she'll turn around and look at me...but I've never got her to totally focus on me.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

With a clicker. Teach her Look At That. She looks at the "prey" and looks back at you. 

Just my opinion-If you are out for a walk, the dog shouldn't have to be focused on you 100%. They should be able to just be a dog...but with manners and and engaged brain.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

You need to be able to correct...so the leash that goes around your waist wouldn't do that. You need to load the leash (give it slack) and then pop it to cause the tightening action that the prong requires to be effective. A tight prong...if the dog gets used to it, it can still pull through. If the drive to chase is great enough, the dog might not even be affected by the prong (especially if its constantly tight), but I doubt that your dog is at that level (very very very few are).

If it's that bad...you could try one of those simple leaders of head halters (I don't really suggest them) but that will not allow your dog to focus on an object and you will be able to control the muzzle and therefore the head. If the dog does bolt...it will quickly get turned around and end up looking at you anyways. It might be something you want to use together with a prong...that way its your safety measure and the prong is actually the thing you use to train the dog.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

a prong will only help if you are walking the dog at heel
if you put a prong on a dog that is ranging out ahead of you it will not work
prongs are for training an at heel walk not a loose leash walk

because you did not know the prey or whatever was going to be there
honestly no i do not believe a prong would work unless you had her at heel and were making her stay right by your side

i get a mental image of a relaxed walk where all the dogs were ranging out ahead of their people
if this is not the case i apologize and say yes a prong will work 

one of these might work
they do not pull the head to the side like a halti 
rather the head is pulled slightly back and down

Sporn Head Halter: The Sporn Company

martem explained it well
if the dog is ranging ahead of you on a leash the prong is already tight and when she sees stuff she will take off regardless

however if you use the prong right and keep it slightly loose and the dog by your side you can correct using the prong


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

lyssa62 said:


> baliff -- totally agree with EVERYTHING except there was NO warning....all the dogs were in a line formation ...going great....BAM I can not even explain how fast this happened...Normally I do see a chase coming and have been able to pull her back..do the NO, LEAVE it......this time there was NO warning. I swear to the deity of your choice...she caught this out of the corner of her eye and it even caught her off guard but the instinct to chase was too strong


That's the great thing about the prong though. As long as you hold on the correction is going to be swift strong and timed enough to get the point across without you marking either way.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

lyssa62 said:


> baliff -- totally agree with EVERYTHING except there was NO warning....all the dogs were in a line formation ...going great....BAM I can not even explain how fast this happened...Normally I do see a chase coming and have been able to pull her back..do the NO, LEAVE it......this time there was NO warning. I swear to the deity of your choice...she caught this out of the corner of her eye and it even caught her off guard but the instinct to chase was too strong


Maybe that's how it happened but here's my experience. I also thought my dog just does things out of nowhere until I saw a trainer and she said that he gives me so many warnings that I have all the chances to catch it before. I was stunned. It was a split second and I didn't see any warnings. 

She had me walk while staring at him. Yep, def not out of nowhere. Maybe your dog is diff but try to walk while keeping your eyes on him. I'm almost sure you will see a progression. Like maybe ears perk up, body stiffens, I don't remember what else my dog does but I can def see it's coming. 

It's not easy to walk while not taking your eyes off your dog. In my neighborhood there are tons of people, small sidewalks, i also like to zone out all the time. But that's when I get these 'out of nowhere' attacks. As long as I'm looking at him I can always catch it in time.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

lyssa62 said:


> I am tempted to get a pair of horse blinders .... but I will do as you all suggest and get the prong back out. Have any of you used the leashes that attach around your waist? I have one of those I used to use...not sure if that would have made the situation last night better or worse. I guess I better put all the weight back on I lost


There are calming caps for dogs. Never used or worked with them though. Calming Caps For Dogs | Thundershirt.com

The clicker would have been useless in that situation because the chase is way more rewarding than a click and treat. You can teach impulse control with the clicker in controlled situations that are set up but you cannot click away drive. 
There must have been a brief moment when she spotted or smelled something to chase but you missed it for some reason. These can take only a flash of a second. For training purposes I walk alone with D or else I'd be too distracted, which could have caused you to miss her signal. Hope you'll heal well and yes to the prong.


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> i get a mental image of a relaxed walk where all the dogs were ranging out ahead of their people


 mental image correct...not too far ahead..loose leash but yep a little bit ahead of us..probably not good. I've never done the correct "heal"...probably something I am going to be working on...classes start back up again in a month...guess we are going back to class 1 AGAIN


wolfy -- I keep playing it over again in my mind..I don't see the warning ...but you are very possibly correct that it was there..no matter how subtle and I did miss it. I am going to have to be more watchful. 

My chiro cracked all of my knuckles and told me to ice it...also got a nice back adjustment ....so we'll see...I'll be ok "THIS TIME" ...but I gotta get this all under control.

thank u ALL for your suggestions and I am taking note of ALL of them!!!!


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

oh and ps...I think I am going to get the other's on board to walk maybe an hour earlier while it's cool enough to do so....I think we are hitting these areas right when everybody is coming out to get food to take to their nests and stuff.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would use the prong. I don't know how much positive work can change this if chasing prey is always going to be more valuable to the dog than any treat or reward. She's got to learn it's just not acceptable, period. All my dogs love to chase prey and they do, when I let them. But when I don't let them, that's how it is.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

I would go buy a rabbit and let it loose and when your dog chases teach him a lesson with the prong. 

He'll quickly understand that the rabbit isn't worth chasing.


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## Rocket (May 3, 2014)

lyssa62 said:


> IHave any of you used the leashes that attach around your waist?


I do not recommend those, they're just an accident waiting to happen. The prong collars are designed to be painful to stop the dog from whatever they are doing. They are very effective and generally safe for use.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I've used a waist leash, it was a disaster. I had it clipped to a 30 ft leash, maybe that's why but I can't see it being that much different with a 6 foot. 

I went flying twice when he ran to the end of the 30 ft leash.


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## Rocket (May 3, 2014)

lyssa62 said:


> I could sugar coat this right now but won't. I am typing with a wrapped wrist and hand


Tell me about you, physically. Hight/weight? Age? strength compared to your dog. Dog weight?

I ask because you may be better off just letting the leash go if this happens again. A squirrel or rabbit isn't going to run 30 miles and take your dog away... They're going to go a short distance and hide (tree, bush, nest, under a fence, etc.). If you're older, or have any ortho history, or osteoporosis, or are relatively small or weaker than your dog then you may want to think twice about the medical costs of repairing you.

Just some food for thought


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I have to agree to going back to the prong. Either way the dog will eventually come to the end of the leash and there will be a correction whether you are lying on the ground with a twisted ankle or sprained wrist, as long as you hold onto the leash there will be a correction. As for the signs to watch for ahead of time, study your dogs stance, eye attention, ears whether alert or relaxed, etc. You will see there is a warning, very short usually and not easy to catch if you don't know what to look for. I found when watching Raina there is a short split second hard look of something like maybe "over alertness" just before she would go off. I had to learn this because as Pyrate got older they got into it more and more until I got to the point where I never left them outside together. The older and weaker he got the more she seemed to want to take the lead. When I would hold her back he would then attack her so I kept them apart. I don't know of any way to train out prey drive but you can use it as training tool when the reward is something like prey such as one of those Skineez (unstuffed animals) you can pull out of your pocket.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Punishing her with prong wouldn't deprive her from her natural instincts, especially prey drive, which, as I understand, has become a strong issue. Prey drive makes its way inside every dog, and, if it reached the present state, formed into something that solid - you have no choice, but to continue developing it. Or, better to say, reshaping it. http://www.cesarsway.com/askcesar/obsession/Prey_Drive


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

prongs are not designed to be painful 
big myth
it is designed to tighten all the way around the neck which is uncomfortable but not painful
they are safer than many other tools but once again as someone else also said if the prong stays tight as the dog ranges out it will not work because the dog is used to that pressure
too many people throw a prong on without understanding how it works

hope this helps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85r03U5WPV8


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## Rocket (May 3, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> prongs are not designed to be painful
> big myth
> it is designed to tighten all the way around the neck which is uncomfortable but not painful
> they are safer than many other tools but once again as someone else also said if the prong stays tight as the dog ranges out it will not work because the dog is used to that pressure
> ...


Correct. I had a typo. I meant to say they are NOT designed to be painful but to stop the behavior.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

simba405 said:


> I would go buy a rabbit and let it loose and when your dog chases teach him a lesson with the prong.
> 
> He'll quickly understand that the rabbit isn't worth chasing.


Hope this is a joke for the rabbit's sake.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Hope this is a joke for the rabbit's sake.


Heck no its not a joke. I'm dead serious. 

What do you mean for the rabbits sake? Did you even read my post?


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

*The prong collars are designed to be painful to stop the dog from whatever they are doing.*
didnt look like a typo to me :shrug:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)




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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

I've had the best luck with the prong with all we've been through....the trainer we have is the one who suggested the prong and taught me how to use it.. ..we had moved to the harness after the pulling was addressed and what I thought was pretty much out of her system. Our riverfront (where we were walking is flooded)..that;s why we have had to find alternative walking places...had horrible luck at our discovery center ....it's LOADED with rabbits and I went for a slightly less traumatic ride there...but scared one of the guys walking with us bad enough he took over Roxy and handed me his labordoodle to walk. Roxy minded him pretty good....that's another thing..I've got to be able to be a little tougher on her. I know..even the trainer said.."you know it's ok to be stern with her." YES...I'm working on it....it's those eyes and look she gives me. Even today she comes up and licks my wrapped up hand...but I also know we would have a repeat of last night and she'd forget about my hand. 
I think I just took the prong off too soon. I should have given it more time and that's my fault...I've not had the rabbit thing with the prong yet either so I'll give it a shot and see how it does. 

Here are my measurements for lack of a better word...
5'2 I used to weigh 170 before I lost weight and before I got Roxy -- now I am at 133. Roxy is 76 at last weigh in about 3 weeks ago. But man she is muscle..even the guy walking her for me after the first rabbit thing said ...she's strong. YEP ...yes she is. I probably should have gone with a smaller dog but all of my life I have wanted a GSD and was finally financially able to do it....but maybe should have thought about my age  
My mom is 91 this September and other than a bum knee she still drives and stuff..so I'm hoping that will be me....I think we are pretty tough women. Built tough ( lol what is that truck commercial saying) .... Roxy and I will get through this together. I am still taking notes...so still keep talking. But the prong collar will go back on at walk time. 

ps ...not sure if I updated...chiro said probably a bad sprain...I've still got it wrapped and will ice it at bedtime..if not better in a couple of days he will take an xray to make sure I didn't fracture something. And first thing out of his mouth was.."why didnt' you let go?" I have no answer..other than I couldn't. I was afraid I'd lose her


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## Rocket (May 3, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> *The prong collars are designed to be painful to stop the dog from whatever they are doing.*
> didnt look like a typo to me :shrug:


Oh. My understanding was that it was not "painful" but uncomfortable enough to stop the behavior.
Either way, they're effective.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

rocket i quoted you when you said prongs are painful to stop the dog from doing whatever it was doing
i then replied below your post stating they are not painful and were never designed to be painful
you then retracted your statement :shrug:


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't see how a dog could dart out after prey, hit a prong correction, and have it not be painful.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

the point of the prong is to create discomfort by tightening around the neck but not to cause out and out pain
if you are using it to cause pain imo that is applying the tool incorrectly

which is why the need to train the dog so it is not causing itself pain 

you want an obedient dog who will self correct 
not a scared one cringing at the sound of the chain tightening

if fitted properly and trained correctly the point of it is not to be painful


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## Rocket (May 3, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> rocket i quoted you when you said prongs are painful to stop the dog from doing whatever it was doing
> i then replied below your post stating they are not painful and were never designed to be painful
> you then retracted your statement :shrug:


when I typed that first statement (the one you quoted) I meant to put uncomfortable in place of painful. 

I always thought that they were designed in such a way that they would be uncomfortable to stop the dog, but not to inflict pain (i.e. not to hurt the dog, or scare it, but discourage the behavior).

That's all. :thumbup:


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## Rocket (May 3, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> the point of the prong is to create discomfort by tightening around the neck but not to cause out and out pain
> if you are using it to cause pain imo that is applying the tool incorrectly
> 
> which is why the need to train the dog so it is not causing itself pain
> ...


yeah. this is my understanding of the prong. I have one, and when I use it Chief never strays or darts or disobeys cause he doesn't like the collar, but he's not scared of it.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

i guess what i am saying is that if a dog on a prong is running to the end of the prong and hurting itself then something has broken down in training because the dog will remember it is wearing the prong
of course if the prong is tight and the dog is pulling and pulling then the fit is wrong or something because the leash has got to be loose as in the video


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

Uncomfortable to me means you're nagging the dog. Which is fine for things like loose leash walking etc. 

A correction shouldn't be uncomfortable; it should be painful. If this was my dog I'd correct so hard the dog yelps. You should only have to give one or two good corrections. If you have to keep on correcting then all you're really doing is nagging. For me personally it only took one good yelp for my dog to understand lunging to the end of the leash is not okay.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

http://www.fortunatek9.com/Articles/Prong_Collar_Julia_V_McDonough.pdf


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am thinking about the physics of a leash attached the waist, 30' long and the dog expodes, accelerating so that the velocity goes from 0 to somewhere up to 40mph, and then hitting the end of the leash -- definitely different than 6'. 6' the dog hasn't yet reached his stride. 

I might read into the protocol from crittering if I had this problem.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Martemchik, are you using the dogs to provide for the dinner table, or just dog food? Nice photo, great predators, poor bunny. I like rabbit. I stew it, with potatoes and carrots and onions and celery. Yum!


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

lyssa62 said:


> I could sugar coat this right now but won't. I am typing with a wrapped wrist and hand because during our nice relaxing walk last night Roxy spotted something out of the corner of her eye and was gone. When I say she was gone I also mean that I was gone too...I will go down breaking a hip before I let go of her leash and lose her. All I can remember is being helped by the other pack walkers whose dogs obviously missed whatever it was. ( I will assume a rabbit or deer but I won't be 100% sure ever)
> Luckily it happened on grass and not the cement we had just left.
> We have gained soooooooooooo much ground in the last few months...there are a lot of you who have been on this walking nightmare/honeymoon journey with me. I am not sure what happened last night.
> How do you respond? I couldn't correct her..it happened to fast and all I was trying to do once it dawned on me I was going to get hurt was hang on to the leash and try to roll with it. I landed on my hand and am pretty sure it's jammed up to the last bunch of knuckles...will see my chiro later today.
> I didn't scold her...it was over. Do I go back to the prong collar or would that have even stopped her in this mind boggling episode? :help:


You can train the dog to not chase unless you allow it and it does not need to be painful for the dog to learn this. Learn how to become the big rabbit yourself (in dogs head) and he will ask you if it is ok to chase the lil rabbit.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

selzer said:


> I am thinking about the physics of a leash attached the waist, 30' long and the dog expodes, accelerating so that the velocity goes from 0 to somewhere up to 40mph, and then hitting the end of the leash -- definitely different than 6'. 6' the dog hasn't yet reached his stride.
> 
> I might read into the protocol from crittering if I had this problem.



When my dog jerked me on a 6 ft I struggled to keep balance. And from her description, he didn't jerk me nearly like hers did. 

The point is that the waist leash is not for these situations. You have better control with your hands than your waist. Whatever injury she got from holding it in her hands would be multiplied in intensity if it was on her waist. 

Have you worn a waist leash before? I also thought it'd give better control. It doesn't. It's dangerous for many reasons.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

my boy diesel said:


> the point of the prong is to create discomfort by tightening around the neck but not to cause out and out pain
> if you are using it to cause pain imo that is applying the tool incorrectly
> 
> which is why the need to train the dog so it is not causing itself pain
> ...


I prefer to actively correct my dogs (if that's the method I'm using) and not rely on "self-corrections". I don't nag my dogs or let them constantly pinch the prong collar themselves.

Really a dog running full speed and hitting anything is going to hurt. Brick walls aren't designed to cause pain but if you run into one, it hurts. When my dogs are doing behaviors that put their safety and my safety at risk, I'm a lot less likely to analyze all the possible training methods and just make it clear they may not act like that. My dogs never shy away from a prong collar (to them, prong = fun training time and they all come running when they hear it) and I do not have to squelch their prey drive, they lure course and I send them after vermin in our yard. But when they're on a leash, bolting after something is never OK, I don't care what it is or how bad they want it.


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## dpc134 (Jan 14, 2013)

E collar
I walk my dog off leash in the woods everyday. She is very good at listening to me before she runs after something. For example, if she sees a deer off in the distance I will immediately tell her "no" and she looks away and keeps walking. I also sometimes will let her chase something, like a squirrel or chipmunk, because it is fun for her and she will most likely not catch it. But she always waits for me to give her the "ok" command before chasing it. I do this because she waits for my command before she is allowed or not allowed to chase. However, there was 1 day when I was walking her through a field and I happened to have her e-collar on as I was doing e-collar training that week and we spooked a deer that was bedded down only a few feet from us. My dog gave chase before I could react with a "no" prior to her chasing and so I hit her with the e-collar on a high level that floored her in her chase. Now she sees a deer and basically ignores them and still waits for my command "ok" to chase squirrels.
E-collar works great for timely corrections off leash.
Just my opinion and experience. Good luck.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Wow this has gotten crazy fast?? 

We have prongs E collars GL's and rabbits??

Yes the prong "can" work when "properly used". Clearly not the case here, anyone capable of using one...would not be having this problem. And could most likely train this dog without the use of one.

And rabbits...my dogs were taught to chase rabbits to the North (towards the mountains) and not South (towards the highway) or not at all... tool free.

I doubt the OP will find a solution to the problem hanging on the rack at a local pet store??

I prefer to try and out think my dogs..sometimes simple works maybe start here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FqtL6o7kDE

Just my 2 cents


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Leashes attached to the waist*



lyssa62 said:


> I am tempted to get a pair of horse blinders .... but I will do as you all suggest and get the prong back out. Have any of you used the leashes that attach around your waist? I have one of those I used to use...not sure if that would have made the situation last night better or worse. I guess I better put all the weight back on I lost


I have one and use it often when I keep Zeus at close heel. But I use it with a prong collar too.

We had a terrible problem with Zeus pulling, especially when it was me, Zeus and another family member he'd not seen in a while (he's a lover after all). He also liked to walk ahead of me a bit.

Cured it with the prong and by quickly changing directions while giving the heel command (fulligan for us, Dutch). I didn't care if I stepped on him or kneed him lightly when changing directions to the left. Soon enough he came to understand who was leading the walk...hint, it wasn't him.

I like the waist-fitted leash a lot. That and the prong collar and the occasional command to get back in heel allowed me to control the dog but keep hands free. I've got to have both to deploy the pepper spray or the pistol.

LF


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

lalachka said:


> When my dog jerked me on a 6 ft I struggled to keep balance. And from her description, he didn't jerk me nearly like hers did.
> 
> The point is that the waist leash is not for these situations. You have better control with your hands than your waist. Whatever injury she got from holding it in her hands would be multiplied in intensity if it was on her waist.
> 
> Have you worn a waist leash before? I also thought it'd give better control. It doesn't. It's dangerous for many reasons.


i am not disagreeing with you. i am an engineer, the physics of the thing was interesting was all that i was saying. 

I still think considering the protocol on crittering might make sense here


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

I'm still reading and taking notes and watching videos!!!!! I was THRILLED to find out our original walking trail is back open. We work on the distractions of people, bikes etc here ...much easier to deal with. 
Yeah here's the thing...I am wondering IF and by IF I am 100% sure of it...although I am Certain Roxy does not mean to drag me ..she knows if she wants to bolt after something she can...I am still heavier than her ( obviously) ..but she is way stronger ( is that a word?) ... than I am. My daughter walked her with us tonight. My daughter has about 4 inches on me in height and about 50lbs on me. I know we were back to original walking ground but I am pretty sure roxy was sizing up the situation and she knows she can't drag my daughter as quick as she can me. Plus my daughter being younger might have quicker response time???? Just things I was kind of watching as I walked a little behind them to see what she does different. she keeps less slack with Roxy - which was hard for me not to tell her to ease up but she was doing so great that I just left it alone. She also lives with us so it's not real confusing that there is another person walking her. Erin goes once in awhile with me but I usually have control of the leash...my hand being still wrapped I let Erin take control of this walk. She doesn't mess around with her when they are walking. I saw Erin a couple of times walk into her to keep her from wandering. Maybe I need to take some lessons from her????

Anyhow we still have a nearly perfect dog ...we need to get over this hump of me being a pushover without me having to gain all my weight back. 

Very seriously thinking about this E collar...I am now researching it. So keep these ideas and thoughts and helpful videos coming. I'm open to most suggestions! ...except that rabbit thing...I just can't do that!


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## Deno (Apr 3, 2013)

The solution is simple, sound and quick.

e-collar


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

we went back to the prong -- no more issues...talked to one of my trainers and she said with the prey drive and our options for where to walk ...she may always need to be on a prong with those walks. 

but oh man walking is back to being enjoyable...she's more relaxed and so am I. ALTHOUGH I am staying alert to her "triggers". The couple of times I saw where she "might" be tensing up ...I gave the pop correction BEFORE it happened and it's been smooth sailing again


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

My trainer said they can easily pull 300 lbs! Never mind when your not expecting it. Thinking about E collar also. Dex is pretty good too but still need to work on a few things, like off leash hiking where he's a bully with certain dogs and chasing critters.


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