# Choosing a puppy food...



## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

Me and my boyfriend are going to be bringing our new puppy home soon (about 2 weeks) and I wanted to make sure she would be eating a balanced diet when she gets here.

At the moment we are leaning towards Taste of the Wild. We also looked at Orijen, Instict, Innova EVO, and a couple of others at the local Earth Pets market.

Although some may have great success with other brands, we are not looking into any commercial pet store or grocery store brands for our baby.

Does anyone have experience with the brands I named above? Do you think TOTW would be a good choice? 

The only concern I have is the high protein content of some of the brands and some of the others have very high fat content. Both of her parents were pretty big (80-95 lbs) so I want to make sure she doesn't grow too quickly.

Thanks,
Jennifer


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Orijen puppy. Their foods are excellent and they are a great company. They have their own manufacturing plant (Champion Foods) and are very concerned about the environment and environmental sustainability. 

The others are all good foods but I think Orijen is your best choice. I have also fed TOTW and Instinct.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowOrijen puppy. Their foods are excellent and they are a great company. They have their own manufacturing plant (Champion Foods) and are very concerned about the environment and environmental sustainability.
> 
> The others are all good foods but I think Orijen is your best choice. I have also fed TOTW and Instinct.


Do you mean "puppy" or "LARGE BREED puppy"?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSD
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowOrijen puppy. Their foods are excellent and they are a great company. They have their own manufacturing plant (Champion Foods) and are very concerned about the environment and environmental sustainability.
> ...


Unless they're getting a mini gsd I think Large Breed Puppy would be the obvious choice!







I see you've explained that below though so maybe we can delete these two middle posts?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Jennifer,

A lot of folks (and even some grain free kibble makers) consider the grain free kibbles to not be the best choice for large breed puppies due to the high cal/phos amounts. Orijen Large puppy is the only one with cal/phos in the levels that a lot of people are confortable with. 

Though I will say that there is at least one board member that feeds TOTW to puppies and says she has had no problems.


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## mkennels (Feb 12, 2008)

before getting a food and giving it to the pup as soon as it gets home you should be feeding it what the breeder is giving it, a puppy needs to stay on what it is used to and switched slowly, at first it will be stressed from leaving what it knows to a strange place and then giving it new food right off the bat will just stress it systems. I would keep it on what its used to for a couple of weeks until things settle then introduce the new food slowly by mixing it with its old food.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Not necessarily. A lot of people don't buy into the whole "large breed" puppy food idea. But still feel the need to use puppy food. And not all stores carry both formulas, so someone may not know there is even a LB puppy formula available.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: mkennelsbefore getting a food and giving it to the pup as soon as it gets home you should be feeding it what the breeder is giving it, a puppy needs to stay on what it is used to and switched slowly, at first it will be stressed from leaving what it knows to a strange place and then giving it new food right off the bat will just stress it systems. I would keep it on what its used to for a couple of weeks until things settle then introduce the new food slowly by mixing it with its old food.


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## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

mKennels - Well, we already know about the switching foods over gradually, as this is not our first puppy, thanks though!

BlackGSD - what would you recommend?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

It's up to you. If I was going to feed a rain free to a puppy, it would probably be the Orijen Large puppy. (But I don't feed grain free.)

All you can do is research and decide what YOU think is best for you and your pup. (And hope that it works for your pup.) Because no matter WHAT you feed, there will be people that don't agree with it. 

Just keep in mind that just because YOU think a food is good or the "right one" doesn't mean your pup/dog will do well on it. You need to give a kibble a chance, but dont' be afraid to change if it isn't working out.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

never fed puppy food. we started out with Natural Balance but the Shep stopped eating it. now we use Wellness kibble and canned. we also throw in ground beef, yogurt (plain-organic), chicken, baby food. our breeder never used puppy food because of the protein level. i forget what percentage level she told me to keep the protein level. Whole Dog Journal has a special issue out that's all about dog food and manufacturers. good luck with the new pup.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

i agree w/ BlackGSD, if i had to feed a grainless kibble to a gsd pup, orijen lg breed puppy is the only one id consider.


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

This is a very important decision for you and your pup. Do your homework. You have to be comfortable with it
As far as I'm concerened Orijen large breed kibble is the best kibble on the market for a GSD pup.


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

I was looking at Orijen large breed puppy, and shows a protein count of 42% 

dogfoodratings says that is to high for a puppy...what do you guys think? I want the best food I can get for my puppy....grainless or not. 

Wellness Core is all grainless and has a protein count of around 34% (I think) what do you guys think about it?


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

Here is where I got my information. 

http://www.newmanveterinary.com/large.html


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## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

I have been doing a lot of research and from what I've read I think you just have to decide what you think would be best for you and your puppy.

Everyone really has different opinions on dog food so it is hard to determine who is right and who is wrong... and maybe it doesn't even come to right and wrong and is a lot to do with opinion.

If you go to Orijen's website they discuss the high protein, and explain that dogs need an energy source. They can get it from proteins, carbs, or fats, and Orijen basically focuses more on protein, while lowering their carb levels and keeping moderate amounts of fat.

I would keep researching, and find what you think is best, like most people here have suggested for me =)


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

While I'm a strong proponent of grain free foods, I'm not yet sold that grain-free is completely perfect for puppies -- especially grainfree kibble which is so nutrient-dense. Grain free canned, which is high in moisture is fine. So is a grain-free raw or home made diet. But kibble concerns me. So I don't feed grain-free kibble to puppies. 

One of the foods I most strongly prefer for puppies is Nature's Variety Prairie (any of the formulas). It's formulated as an All Life Stages food. Not all adult foods are formulated that way. Dogfoodanalysis.com rates it highly and and Whole Dog Journal givesit its thumbs-up as well. 

I think it's an excellent food (for one that's grain-based), and I like the fact that NV provides information on EVERY nutrient. With other manufacturers, I have to email them just to find out how much Calcium and Phosphorous the food has in it. These are vital ingredients that every informed puppy/dog owner should know about as they choose a food. If that information isn't easily available on the website, much less the bag, well, gosh, they're not communicating with me on the easy stuff, what if something much harder occurs (like a recall)? 

Once the pup is old enough, I move him to a grain free diet. There are numerous options for grain free. Instinct, Orijin, etc

I just don't see a reason to feed puppy food unless there's a specific veterinary need for it. 

Axxel, the link to Dr. Newman's website in interesting. Thanks for including it. But I wonder about his statement that 12% fat is the maximum we should feed. Most of the quality kibbles that are fed by many members here (including Canidae, an All Life Stages food, that seems to be one of the most popular with the respected breeders) hover right around 14-15%. And these pups(including mine) have grown up to be healthy and vibrant adults. So I'm questioning that number. 

I believe that feeding an active pup foods with 10% fat (like Natural Balance's allergy formulas) may not give him enough energy. I'm no DVM, but I just think that 10-12% is too low for active puppies.


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomWhile I'm a strong proponent of grain free foods, I'm not yet sold that grain-free is completely perfect for puppies -- especially grainfree kibble which is so nutrient-dense. Grain free canned, which is high in moisture is fine. So is a grain-free raw or home made diet. But kibble concerns me. So I don't feed grain-free kibble to puppies.
> 
> One of the foods I most strongly prefer for puppies is Nature's Variety Prairie (any of the formulas). It's formulated as an All Life Stages food. Not all adult foods are formulated that way. Dogfoodanalysis.com rates it highly and and Whole Dog Journal givesit its thumbs-up as well.
> 
> ...


Nature's Variety Prairie, look good...but it has calcium a little high for me at 1.65% min 

I have been looking at Eagle Pack Holistic LBP, and Canadie ALS. The ALS seems to have plenty of meat while keeping the calcium and protein with in acceptable levels.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Axxel,

It is only the Salmon flavor of Praire that has 1.65%. Some of the others are lower, and at least 1 of them is higher.

Canidae is 1.2% MINIMUM. But they call it 1.8% "as fed". 

This is what they said in an email to another board member: (Coppied and pasted from the "Canidae flavors" post.)

*"We list a Min 1.20% calcium and a 1.80% max = 1.50% average calcium
Which makes the ALS average calcium at the Ideal mark of 1.50%. There
are naturally occurring variances in all foods. We are showing the
total possible variances."*


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

NV Prarie calcium numbers on their site are all listed as minimums. i have emailed them as well to finds out what their max numbers are.


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

This just keeps getting more confusing. Sometimes I wonder if going with Purina Pro Plan for the first year might not be better.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

You mean Purina, who says this:

"Another important class of fatty acids are the omega-3 fatty acids. Although structurally similar to omega-6 fatty acids, *omega-3 fatty acids are not currently considered essential in companion animal nutrition.*"
http://www.longliveyourdog.com/Careguide...FattyAcids.aspx


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Just reading that makes me itchy!


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

Argh lol. This should not be this confusing...it's dog food lol.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Sorry Patti!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Another vote her for the Orijen Large Breed puppy. They've done a good job putting that together, I think. 

And that emoticon is making ME itchy! Yikes!


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i am feeding large breed Pinnacle chicken and oats. Sami 4 months is doing great on it. he was feed Wellness Puppy for the first three months, then i switched him.

i think TOTW has to much Calcium for a growing puppy. its a good food, but i would wait on that until he's grown. Origen is a good food, not cheap, but none of the high quality foods are.

debbie


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: debbiebi am feeding large breed Pinnacle chicken and oats. debbie


Never heard of it. I have obviously heard of Pinnacle, but never heard of it refered(sp) to as a "large breed" food.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

good point! how about ADULT food on the Pinnacle.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: debbiebgood point! how about ADULT food on the Pinnacle.


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

I feed Native performance dog food which comes in 4 levels and then we add raw diet to it and have never had to feed puppy food which most have high protein in it. this is what I'm learning has cause dogs to grow to fast along with their joints, next the person like my client that feeds puppy food has a bout with Pano


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

I migrated Angeles from Bill Jac to Iams Puppy Large Breed until I could get his Kumpi Puppy Food shipped to him. I'm not a major fan of Bill Jac due to the chemical preservatives in the food. But I know it works well for many folks.

He has done very well on Kumpi. I have started mixing in some Orijen Large Breed Puppy (about 1/4) as well as some Natures Variety Venison Raw or some wet on the side. I was really trying to get him to just eat one food, but I like to have options with good brands ever since the recalls. Plus I use the Kumpi as his primary food and the other as training treats and "side dishes".

If I list my favorites in order it would be:
1. Kumpi Puppy Food - http://www.kumpi.com
2. Orijen Large Breed and NV Venison Raw (tied) http://www.championpetfoods.com and http://www.naturesvariety.com

I think he likes the variety as well too!

I did try to give him some Wellness treats during his training but that gave him the squirts so I stopped those.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

It is quite shocking to me that you like Kumpi and Orijen. They are about as different as night and day. Starting with, but not limited to, the fact that the first ingredient in Kumpi is *Corn meal*.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Hi Tracy,

I'm sorry...I should have been clear in my post - I'm not opposed to grains as long as grains do not make up the majority of the food. I do believe that dogs need to eat meat. I tried Kumpi with my Senior and I was thrilled with the results that I saw. Some people don't like corn meal and that is okay. But my dogs do fine on it. Some of the wet I give them has rice in it  But if they had their preference....i'd be cooking them steak every night or at least giving it to them raw! lol


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

some grains are probably ok, but i would definitely stay away from the wheat and corn content. rice is ok, oats are ok, etc. i think its just as important to explore the manufacturers as well as the food. know where the ingreds come from, etc.

debbie


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

I've noticed with the Orijen now and the NV Raw on the side his stool is not as firm. Of course it wasn't completey firm on the Kumpi alone either. But he really liked the food and I like their manufacturing process/testing/ingredients. I'm going to just have him on Kumpi for a few days with no sides and nothing but the Kumpi dog food for treats for training to see how he does. His stool was the most firm on the Iams Large Breed Puppy. I asked the vet today and she recommended that he have a firmer stool so he doesn't dehydrate (like humans getting loose stool) or have to drink so much water (cause he drinks like a fish right now). I may have to go back to Iams Large Breed Puppy - but will know more in a few days. Will keep you posted.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

I forgot to add...the vet thought I may have transitioned to quickly as well.... :-( oh well...newbie with a puppy...it has been awhile since I have had a young one....


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I found that Orijen took a while to fully change over (about a week for Chama and 2 weeks for Rafi) but then everything was fine. It's not good to be switching around constantly. I like to switch proteins, if possible, every year but that's it. 

And the high protein kibble and raw can do a whammy on the system at first so I would do the switch gradually and then stick to the same thing for a while. 

As for the Kumpi--nowhere could I find the ratios of ingredients. And I don't think corn meal is necessarily terrible but don't like to see it as a first ingredient.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

that is what the Vet was telling me....that i had just got him and took him from Bill Jac to Iams Large Breed Puppy which he did great on switching, but then I switched him again and his system just wasn't ready for that much change. when I took him to Bill Jac to Iams Large Breed Puppy it was cold turkey...His first ride home, he threw up 5 times in the car - the 1 hour trip from ****....and the smell of the Bill Jac coming up just killed me so I couldn't take feeding it to him or I would have thrown up. 

Well, today after seeing his stool was still a bit loose, I got a bag of the Iams and for lunch and dinner he ate just Iams with a small amount of the other mixed in and his stool was back to normal. I think I found my answer...keep him on what worked and don't switch again until Adult food time. Lesson learned!


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Follow up:

Well...good news...the poop is back to normal, but not exactly the treatment I thought of just going back to Iams. I was really concerned that his stool just wasn't right on the Kumpi...so I spoke with Evy, the owner, and she said test him for Coccidia and garidia (spelling). Even if the test came back negative she advised to get him treated as a precaution. The priobotics in the food is what is cleansing his system. Which got me to thinking - his eye boogers starting happening when I gave him more of the Kumpi too.... So I took him to the vet for his rabies shot and last of the boosters. His stool came back negative but I told them I wanted him treated anyway. The tech said they give a broad spectrum pill for the parasites and I said - does that pill kill the coccidia and garadia (spelling) and they said no. I said - I want him treated for it. So I got the pills...for 7 days he took them and half way through the treatments his stool went back to normal and his eyes stopped with the eye boogers. 

I have him on 1/2 Kumpi and 1/2 Iams Large Breed Puppy. The Iams is almost up so I am going to finish it. But then it will be 1/2 Kumpi Puppy and 1/2 Kumpi Adult. 

His stool is normal now.

Evy, owner of Kumpi, told me that so many of her police dog customers when they get the loose stool they get treated right away from those parasites and they go back to normal....the priobotics in the food is the indicator that something is not quite right in the body....so I'm glad I asked her instead of just relying on good stool with the Iams. Reading what can happen to a puppy if those parasites are left unchecked is really scary. I never imagined that dog food could just mask a problem but then again most dog food doesn't have the level of priobotics in it that the Kumpi does.

As a note of warning: even if a test comes up negative it doesn't mean the dog isn't infected. If a vet is not used to testing for this then they could miss it. As well, depending on the stool sampled is another issue. My vet agreed that they sample such a small amount that it could be missed.

How could my puppy get the parasites? It can happen from mother to puppy or just the dog sniffing and getting other dogs poo on them or as they greet each other spread it. My vet said in 10 years she hadn't seen it, but that doesn't mean it isn't out there...we are in a metro city in NC...and if vets doen't test for it unless asked then I don't think not seeing it means anything. If a dog has a really bad infestation then the stool can get foamy and bloody as well. Mine hadn't gotten to that stage yet thankfully.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

If the vet hasn't seen Giardia they have just missed it







I'm in Portland OR - Perhaps not as big a city as where you are, but it's not exactly the country where I am either.

There was a great article in the Whole Dog Journal last year (perhaps the year before) about Giardia and the fact that it is much more prevelent than was thought in years past.

The thing with Giardia is that most dogs have it in their GI Tract but most aren't impacted by it. It usually takes another stressor of some sort to set it off, or of course an incredibly bad case.

If anyone is going to have their dog tested for Giardia the ONLY way to go is with the Antigen rather than the regular test. Dante had 2 negative before they did the Antigen which came back positive. 

I don't understand the bit about the probiotics cleansing his system, could you explain that a bit?

Glad to hear the pup's better


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Hi Barb E. 

The priobotics help keep the intestines healthy. It is the good bacteria that tries to remove anything that is bad. Just like the priobotics used in drinks, yogurt, etc. In this case, his body had an issue and the priobotics tried to cleanse the system. It was giving me a sign that something wasn't right with him. I thought he had an issue with the food (i.e. didn't agree with him) but the opposite was true - it was trying to cleanse his body of the bad. 

Giardia - thank you for the spelling!!! I couldn't remember how to spell it. I thought it was odd the vet hadn't seen a case in the past 10 years. Again though, it is not the same test as you and I both said - you have to look for it in a different test.

Thanks for the well wishes 

Robert


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