# Black German Shepherd pup aggression



## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Hi,

I have joined this forum to ask for help and any input would be appreciated. 
We have black, working dog German Shepherd named Titan. He is 13 weeks old. We got him at 6 weeks since we didn't know better at the time. We got him from a backyard breeder. On our way back pup got hungry and while my partner was feeding him, pup must have thought that my partner was taking away food and bit him. That said, it was enough to draw blood but not too much. That said he is not food agressive now and does not guard his stuff. When we got him home, we had other dog Jack Rusell Terrier that attacked him and we called a trainer that said to let them sort it out. We listened to the advice and then it happened again. We called the trainer and he said that Jack Rusell needs to be rehomed. He lives now in my mothet in law's house. Titan has been good with kids, some dominant behavior that we are fixing. He is well trained. He sits before he gets his food, fetches the ball, plays soccer, lies down, comes, walks well on a lead, play with his toys and so on. His biting and chewing is now minimal. He is a very smart dog but very dominant. This brings me to my other issue, today my partner was fixing a lead into the seat belt so that the dog was put. The dog started growling at him and air snapping. This was definitely agression, he didn't want to be moved. 

Now I am wondering whether this agression is a long term problem and whether I need to rehome the dog to someone more knowledgeable. 

Thank you for any help that you can offer.


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## DWP (Mar 31, 2011)

*Patience*

Patience. Keep training. Be consistant. Stay calm, and keep asking questions here. Someone better at giving advice than me will respond shortly.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Never deal with that trainer again. He is an idiot.

You need to find a good trainer to help you because if you are having problems now with a baby they will be really bad problems in the future.

You will need to change how you live with the puppy and dogs in general.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

byb and byt , back-yard-trainers , how absurd to recommend an adult Jack Russel Terrier , probably feisty , to sort it out with a 6 week old pup.
The pup was attacked when he got home !
Bad management all round. 

"He is a very smart dog but very dominant. This brings me to my other issue, today my partner was fixing a lead into the seat belt so that the dog was put. The dog started growling at him and air snapping. This was definitely agression, he didn't want to be moved"

You got a black dog from a back yard breeder who at minimum should have known that 6 weeks was too early to home , even if you did not.
Who knows other pups might have gone home earlier .

Don't pin any problems on the dog being "working" . Says who? Some sales pitch ? Problems will be due to the byb not having spent the time to properly socialize the pup . What the dog experiences prior to 8 weeks is as important , maybe more so , than what is given after . This is the critical imprint age . 
That the pup was that hungry on the ride home shows that the dogs were fed sparingly or in an atmosphere were there was a lot of competition and not enough to go around . Competition for little.

Be on guard for dog aggression problems . Not a good introduction. You are lucky the JRT didn't damage the pup. Not once , twice .

If that were my dog and he didn't want to move , I would put him on lead and he would be moving with me , every where I wanted to go , and quickly , and then I would put him wherever you wanted to put him in the first place. No punishment or time-outs , no bribes . No negotiations.


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

Nelson and Bella Jack Russell (7) Bella GSD at 4 months. Yes, one bite occured. A true love affair. Listen to the member's here, they will help you !


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Any help is appreciated please.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Thanks for that. I should have known better, I understand that. I have been training him, we take him for walks as well. He is fine with strangers as long they do not invade his personal space. He needs more socialization and I am working on that. I am about to enrol him in a puppy school so that he is around other dogs more. Is there anything else I should be doing. Sorry for my choppy replies, I am still getting a hang of this forum.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

sehrgutcsg said:


> Nelson and Bella Jack Russell (7) Bella GSD at 4 months. Yes, one bite occured. A true love affair. Listen to the member's here, they will help you !


It's nice to see that they are getting along I am still working on mine. Hopefully it will be sorted.


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## diarmuid957 (Nov 28, 2013)

For immediate help I would look at the articles on Leerburg.com that detail Establishing Pack Structure. Its obvious that's you need you need to sort this out ASAP. I doubt you need to rehome either of your dogs. But you do need some house rules and fast. Your dogs are looking for guidance and since they aren't getting any from the humans, they are sorting out things themselves.

Also I strongly recommended at the on-demand Leerburg videos on "Your Puppy 8wks to 8 mths."

You have a lot of ground to cover but with a few simple steps you can go a long way to correcting these behavior problems. 



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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Thanks for that. I have been working on pack leadership but that is of great help. It will make things much simpler. We gave gained some grounds with him and things have gotten much better. He was far more aggressive when we got him, he is much better around strangers, less tense and scared when we take him for a walk. I can feed him from my hand now, before he would snap at the hand but now he controls bites. Also I can take and add food to bowl. He sits and waits. Only with kids I need to establish better hierachy. 

One other issue that I have with him is when walking and pushing the pram at the same time, he will prop himself in front of me and push off on the back legs and put front paws on the pram and push along. It can be a bother and it could be dominance thing again.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I have no problem with Leerburgh couple links in post 8:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/431289-new-dog-very-challenging.htmlurgh But 

Leerburgh "assumes" a basic level of dog knowledge, I used info on his site "Who Pets My Puppy or Dog" with great success for my people aggressive GSD!  

But I have never dealt with a dog that was coming "up leash!!" For me if a pro says "you need to find a trainer"..then you need to find a trainer!


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Yes we tried with this trainer but we had some bad advice in the beginning. Trainer's main focus was on correcting bad behavior by yelling loudly at the dog. That was the main input from him. Now I was thinking of taking him to puppy school but I am a bit hesitant about getting a new trainer. I don't know any good ones and I don't want to be ripped off again or for somebody to give me bad advice. I care for this dog and I don't want any more damage done


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Thanks for your input though These links are great, I was a bit stumped and out of ideas. I am really glad I found this forum


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## Athena'sMom (Jan 9, 2014)

Puppies are not dominate, that comes later. He has not been socialized and was taken to early from his dam. Work on relationship building with your pup. Google engagement training. Become the leader! Make your pup work for his food. Hand feed while while working on engagement exercises. Teach your pup all good things come from you. 
JRT are extremely feisty and should be taken slow in the beginning. Your pup must learn to coexist but his safety must come first. Contact a knowledgeable gsd trainer to guide you through this next year. The first year is crucial and training and socialization is a must!
On leash pulling when your pup pulls stop walking! It will take patience but can be done. When pup stops pulling praise say "yes" and give him food rewards. Never let him pull as it can hurt pups trachea and teaches him bad habits. My pup Sinister was a major puller as a baby now he is 6 months my husband just drapes the leash over his neck and sinister never leaves his side he stay in "foose" (heal) the whole walk even under distraction. 
Good luck with your baby. Unconditional love, proper training, and a whole lot of patience you will have a life long friend!


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Thank you for that. I make him sit before we cross the street and he walks besides me. One problem that we do have with him is that he will bark at other dogs, he will also bark at humans too but only if they approach too closely. That is, if they try to pet him. Is there something I can do about that? I understand that he is not socialised well and I am working on fixing that. The first day we got him, on the way back we made a stop at a park for him to do his business and eat. An older couple tried to approach but he started barking. I really hope that we can do something about that. JRT or Hercules as we call him is at my mother in law's place until we get everything sorted


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## Athena'sMom (Jan 9, 2014)

Have friends that your pup does not know come over and give them treats have them call your pup give pup a treat. I take all my pups through AKC S.T.A.R. puppy program it gets them used to being around strangers, other puppies in a safe non-threatening environment. go to AKC.org to find a class in your area. It is not very training intensive; just your basics, sit, down, stay for 1 minute and loose leash walking, it is more about socialization. Get him exposed to different sites and sounds. No dogs!! Socialize with human of all ages, and puppies his own age in a class environment. I do not care if my dogs are friendly with other dogs but they must learn to tolerate them in all situations and not react or over react. Humans are another story my dogs enjoy being around everyone. Athena is a lover she adores attention from everyone. My male Sinister it took some time for him to take to people outside our family. He is aloof and that is okay but not aggressive or fearful. Sinister will allow someone to pet him but does not seek out attention as Athena does. he is happier to sit at my feet while I talk to someone than interact with the stranger. He loves kids. Sinister will allow all children to pet him but he is picky which adult he takes to. Again your puppy does not have to be overly friendly with people but must learn to co-exist and stay aloof with people he does not know. Again build trust with your pup. My dogs know I will protect them and not put them in harms way, so therefor when I am calm they are calm. good luck


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Most definitely find a good trainer to work with. It sounds like the biting and such has gotten a bit better, but if it continues I might even suggest looking into a behavioralist. To me, a puppy that young showing that level of aggression is a huge red flag. 

Monitor his responses to people and other animals VERY closely because he is only going to get bigger from here on out. I might even suggest keeping a log of his behavior so you have a long term look at his progress and any instances of regression so you will have a better idea in the long run what training methods work best for him. And if you do have to go to a behavioralist later for any aggression or behavior issues, they will be able to help you more readily if they have a good past history of his behavior.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

aleinad said:


> Thank you for that. I make him sit before we cross the street and he walks besides me. One problem that we do have with him is that he will bark at other dogs, he will also bark at humans too but only if they approach too closely. That is, if they try to pet him. Is there something I can do about that? I understand that he is not socialised well and I am working on fixing that. The first day we got him, on the way back we made a stop at a park for him to do his business and eat. An older couple tried to approach but he started barking. I really hope that we can do something about that. JRT or Hercules as we call him is at my mother in law's place until we get everything sorted


Well as long as your still working on it, the thread I posted has a link to "Who Pets my Puppy or Dog." 

Pretty much concept is "move along dog nothing to see here," dog has to be on a loose, leash don't let him get near enough another dog to strike or be struck. You shouldn't need to do any hard corrections because if done right the triggers are going to be passed quickly!


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Just an update:

He is 17 weeks now and he is getting quiet big.
Some good and bad things have happened since. I have been hand feeding and he is much gentler now when he grabs food from the hand. I have also thought him to fetch which he likes. He is pretty good on lead, doesn't pull or fall behind. When I open the back yard door he will walk out but not far away.
We had a repairman come by and when Titan saw him, he only barked but stopped upon request, same thing with another quest. Sometimes he won't even bark,he will only come in for a smell. 

Also, there were set backs. Even though he handles us around his dish much better now, there was incident recently, over a week now. I fed him some raw chicken drumsticks and even though he was alright with us giving him a pet on the bottom, as well as adding food he growled when we tried to touch him around the collar. 
He has also gotten into the habit of digging holes and ripping my plants out of pots. What can I do about that? My back yard is getting destroyed.

Also he will bring sticks, branches, different rocks and occasionally poop to the back door. He prefers to spend time there. Can I stop this somehow?

Some mouthing happening, to my shoes when I walk and my hand when I try to pet him. How can I discourage that?
He is also herding people when they are walking, almost to the point of stepping on him.

I have been walking him but we had two set back there. My partner was walking him and another dog owner had the JRT off the lead. JRT started barking and went for my GSD and Titan growled but luckily JRT was put on a lead before something happened.
Just yesterday I was walking my two kids in a pram and the dog. Titan was acting out by barking at other people that came too close. At male figures to be specific. He doesn't do it when I walk him or my partner but more specifically, when I walk him with the kids. 
We sat down to have a rest and my toddler was playing near by and Titan was leashed but was walking around as far as the leash allowed. Baby was in the pram. Suddenly A GSD mix came out of nowhere and was looking at us. I didn't know whether the dog was friendly or not, my main concern was the toddler near by withing the other dogs reach. Thankfully, the dog turned away from the kid and started walking towards me and Titan. Titan started growing and the other dog started growing back. I pulled my dog away on the leash away from the kids and the threatening dog. The dog started following us coming in for a smell and also alternating between growling and barking. They came to a fight real close few times, no matter how far away I pulled to my to break away the fight about to happen, the other kept following. Titan was barking, growling and crying out because he was scared. Finally, the dog owner showed up, walking slowly, even after seeing me trying to break them up. She was almost smiling! She came, leashed her dog and said that her dog was friendly and was trying to play. I was so scared, that never happened to me before. Thankfully everyone was alright and no one was hurt. That did put some fear in Titan as he was growing at even smaller dogs that were passing him on the way back. He was fine towards people that passed us by surprisingly. 

I am really sorry for the rant, I just had to get it out. I am still shaking a day after. 
Any help is appreciated.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Here is a photo


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

if the dog is outside only you will have holes and dug up plants
dogs do this to amuse themselves
gsds are very intelligent dogs and if you do not keep their minds stimulated they will find their own ways and your puppy has found a way

as to handling while the dog is eating
do not do that!
if you hand feed the dog and give it kibble then stick to that only until he has it down
if you are feeding raw give him his food and leave him be
you would not like it if someone was grabbing at you and your puppy does not like it either
it makes them feel fearful you are going to snatch their food away


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

He is indoors at evenings and night. I also take him out for a walk midday and I throw him some sticks in the back yard. Unfortunately I can not divide much more time. I give him toys to play with and bones to chew as well. I am not sure what else to do, any suggestions?

We hand feed him during the day, but in the evenings we give him his food in at the bowl and leave him alone. This was a rare occurrence that we have bothered him but none the less I would not like to see it happen as I have two and nine month old kids. I would not like him to respond in such a way because of the danger to the kids. As much as we are preventing and hoping to prevent kids might get int his business and we would like them to be safe. Also, this was a rare occurrence that we fed him raw food


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

look into trade up style feeding
where you give the dog low value treats and then hand feed a high value item
this is done so the dog does not feel you are taking things
taking his food and treats will make him feel insecure and thus protective towards his food

wrong thing to do
ps wait on raw food until he is more mature and you have worked with him trading up so he trusts you are not going to take his food
build a bond using food with this dog

as for your yard
if you cannot exercise him more or give him things to occupy his mind and time you will have holes and torn up flowers
it is very self gratifying for dogs to dig and works off energy and stress

you could get a kennel and place it on bricks so he cannot dig out 
but he will be bored in there and could become a nuisance barker too
kong toys and the like to occupy his mind and body will be crucial
dogs like gsds cannot just sit there for hours on end and do nothing 
especially as a pup


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

I had puppy issues at 13 weeks with fear aggression to dogs. I had Leerburg DVDs, Control Unleashed DVDs, and other books, etc. I had a bad experience with a supposed GSD trainer who told me in puppy kindergarten that my screaming dog needed to "work it out" with the two dogs that had jumped him. 

Leerburg, etc., helped a lot on knowing day to day what I was supposed to be doing, but I got a referral from a forum member for an ace GSD trainer. 

The man had me and the dog on-track within an hour. I went home armed with a clear plan. The trainer assessed my dog within that hour and told me good news/bad news, but gave me a lot of hope.

There are a lot of opinions on the forum, which is an asset/pitfall. My advice is to get a referral for a good, knowledgeable GSD trainer, and then trust that person. 

I am sure that some on the forum would not approve of my trainer's methods--but they worked and he was/is very fair to the dog. I'm sure the man has forgotten more about dog training than I'll ever know. His prices were wonderful--$50/hour. I did have to drive for two hours to get there, but it was well worth it. 

Two weeks later, my pup's reactivity to other dogs was greatly reduced and the trainer showed me how to stop mouthing and jumping. Miracle.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Thank you. I will start with trading up food and I will get some kong toys. What are good treats to put inside? My dog is not big on supermarket food
I got a trainer and he was no good. Unfortunately where I live, there are no GSD specific dog trainers. I got one from Bark Busters and now I have lifetime support with them but I am hesitant to use him again as he gave me bad advice the first time around. The closest trainers are about 4 hours away so that puts me in a bit of a predicament


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Talk with Bark Busters and tell them you want another trainer, not the one you have already seen. The other option is locate a trainer in your area. All the suggestions you have received here are great, but you really need an experienced trainer with eyes on the dog working with you. If you will post your location, someone may be able to refer you to a good trainer.

Second and strongest suggestion. With reactive pups like this, walk him without having your kids along until you have a handle on his training Some pups will redirect to what is closest to them, your leg... the kids.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

He's not acting like this because he's black, he just came home from his litter mates too young. LOL sorry couldn't resist, I have a black fmale. She's 16 months and it's only been a few months since we stopped calling her Venus the Menace.

With your children being so young, I would feed Titan in his crate. Crate's a happy place, look dinner goes in there.

In a few months you're going to see real fear aggression. What you're seeing now is just puppy antics. They go through a flaky fear stage about 6 months old so you've got to get a grip on being calm when he freaks out, staying cool, it's all good hey look there's another dog. There's a man in a weird hat. There's an old lady with a walker.

You're going to see different reactions when it's just you and the dog vs you and the kids and the dog. Get your partner to help so you can get out with the dog one on one for socialization. Hire a sitter for nap time if you have to. 

Above all stay calm and consistent. Puppies get bored, they'll eat your plants. My dogs like to play with an empty nursery bucket or a big plastic coffee can - keeps them from playing with the container plants.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Thanks for that I live in Canberra, Australia so there is not much here. Nothing that I could find at least. Yes, with kids he gets more protective or reactive, I am not sure. I just walked him by myself and he was much calmer. He didn't react to people at all, stopped at crossing and did overall much calmer. He did however react to this small dog but I pulled him gently along and even though he turned back few times to see and add a bark or two, he kept going without much hesitation. He did hurry a bit more next to the yards that had few dogs.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

While we are on the topic of trainers, I called another training school when Titan was only 8 wks old. She told me that I need to give him away as his coat is black, which means that he will be difficult to work with and that he is most likely a working dog and therefore not suitable for a family. She wanted me to sell him to a Security company that she was in touch with. As I said there are many crooks here and it is difficult to find a good trainer.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

aleinad said:


> She told me that I need to give him away as his coat is black, which means that he will be difficult to work with and that he is most likely a working dog and therefore not suitable for a family.


say what? My black female is the most loving dog. She's also been very workable. Where do you live, sounds like you're surrounded by idiots!


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## StingRay (Jun 10, 2014)

aleinad said:


> While we are on the topic of trainers, I called another training school when Titan was only 8 wks old. She told me that I need to give him away as his coat is black, which means that he will be difficult to work with and that he is most likely a working dog and therefore not suitable for a family. She wanted me to sell him to a Security company that she was in touch with. As I said there are many crooks here and it is difficult to find a good trainer.


She told you to give him away?


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

What a beautful black shepherd you have. From his pic he looks so innocent. Sorry that other off leash dogs and their owners are not helping in the situation. I have found carrying a stick and telling the other dog to get away in a deep voice helps. Another thing ive learned, nothing brings an off leash dog owner faster than you pointing a stick at their dog. I hope with all the advice below you find a better trainer and things work out for your handsome boy.


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## StingRay (Jun 10, 2014)

@ 3:30 mark.... is this normal?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

StingRay said:


> @ 3:30 mark.... is this normal?
> 
> German Shepherd puppy "DUKE" 16 weeks old - YouTube



What exactly are you asking about?? I saw a normal puppy. Cute as a button too. At the 3:30 mark you show your hand. Is it the bite marks? Sorry. 


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## StingRay (Jun 10, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> What exactly are you asking about?? I saw a normal puppy. Cute as a button too. At the 3:30 mark you show your hand. Is it the bite marks? Sorry.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sorry, i should have been more clear. Is it normal for GSD pups to bite alot and break through skin? I am planning on getting one so that's why I am asking.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Then yes. It's normal. They are mouthy monsters with very sharp teeth. Why we affectionately call them Land Sharks. 

Some are worse than others. 


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## Charliehound (Jun 5, 2014)

StingRay said:


> @ 3:30 mark.... is this normal?
> 
> German Shepherd puppy "DUKE" 16 weeks old - YouTube


Is this a thread hijack? LOL

Please do your research on GSD's before getting one...any dog for that matter. It will make your life and the puppy's life so much easier! Good luck!

This might be helpful
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/394082-german-shepherd-best-breed-me-my-family.html


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

StingRay said:


> Sorry, i should have been more clear. Is it normal for GSD pups to bite alot and break through skin? I am planning on getting one so that's why I am asking.


They have a rather long 'land shark' phase, with baby teeth like needles. If you play with their mouth as you did, expect to get bit.


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## StingRay (Jun 10, 2014)

Thanks for the help guys.... 

BTW, I'm not in the video I saw it on Youtube so just posted it here, because I was curious.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Thanks for your replies. It sounded very bogus to us too. Especially my partner. I will persist with the training and socializing and see where it takes me. I went to Leerburg dog training website and I have found some useful info as well. Some recommendations seem extreme, is it really necessary to use prong collar and the dominant dog collar? 

As a reply to the video, yes my GSD is very bitey. Much less now but they do have sharp teeth and I was nicked by accident few times.

I live in Canberra, Australia and I've looked around there are no GSD specific trainers unfortunately. There is a GSD club and I will try to get in touch with them to see if they recommend anyone.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

There is an ACT German Shepherd Society so I will join. Its only for GSD members and they offer training for which I will sign up for. I spoke to them about my concerns and they are willing to work with the dog. Some good news finally


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## Charliehound (Jun 5, 2014)

That's great news!


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## Rexy (Jun 4, 2011)

Don't be offended if the GSD club are not very obliging as they don't like working line dogs at the best of times and they like unpapered or BYB's less as a general rule.

Sound like the pup is short on nerve and commonly BYB's are bread from reactive parents in belief that aggression means a protective instinct where in fact it's a fear reaction.

I have had a share of short nerved GSD's over the years and they are a pain to manage from a genetic state but although training can improve their behaviour, it will be a long haul in the process.

I would have the dog assessed by a good trainer experienced with GSD's and I think there are a couple of working GSD kennels in the ACT involved with training of security dogs who may be able to help. 

If the pup is genetically a fear biter, it may be best to seriously consider attaining a pup of better breeding with a stable character?


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

So she should buy another pup from a good breeder?


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## Kiitsu (Apr 20, 2014)

I saw you have a digging problem. My pup was the same, so I covered all the spots he liked to dig in chicken wire, and got him a kiddie pool filled with sand and put all his toys and a few treats in it. I have to leave him outside unattended sometimes, so I like to give him his own digging spot so he doesn't lose out on something fun to do. He digs in that instead now, all the time.  It worked really well for me, maybe you should try something similar.
Good luck with your puppy!


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Yes, I might try that burying something in the sand thanks

I understand how those clubs work, I hope it all goes well but if there are any problems I will just not bother with them. I know there are training kennels in the outskirts of Sydney but they are about 4 hours away and I am not sure about leaving dog with them for weeks because it is impossible to know what they will be doing to the dog. Which one are you talking about in ACT, I know there is an AFP one but that is for police dogs..could you point me in the right direction please?

Of course I can get other dog, but what should I do with this one? I do think it is genetic with this dog and it was most likely exacerbated with our JRT biting him.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

aleinad said:


> Thanks for your replies. It sounded very bogus to us too. Especially my partner. I will persist with the training and socializing and see where it takes me. I went to Leerburg dog training website and I have found some useful info as well. Some recommendations seem extreme, is it really necessary to use prong collar and the dominant dog collar?
> 
> As a reply to the video, yes my GSD is very bitey. Much less now but they do have sharp teeth and I was nicked by accident few times.
> 
> I live in Canberra, Australia and I've looked around there are no GSD specific trainers unfortunately. There is a GSD club and I will try to get in touch with them to see if they recommend anyone.


Your pup is 17 weeks old, to young for a prong; but to answer the question about prong collars - The standard answer to prongs for FA dogs is not to use them. If used wrong, if your timing is bad; it can definitely cause more problems. With Woolf, we did eventually begin using a prong. It was after he had gained some confidence, enough so he was acting like a jerk - the brat . It was also after I had been trained in it's use as well, knew Woolf's signals and gotten timing right. (I thought my trainer was going to kill me over my timing before it was over with lol). He is not corrected for reactions, only for not following commands - the timing is important to keep the 2 separated so he doesn't associate the correction with the human or dog. Just to add - the prong collar is NOT cruel - you can place it around your arm, do a quick tug and see how it feels - keeping in mind your dog has a thick coat around his neck to cushion it even more.

Some training links to go thru while you are searching for a trainer - 

LAT There is also a post on another thread that goes into really good explanation of this exercise. Just can't find it right now <sigh> will look for it again later.

BAT 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html - excellent conversation on socialization

Continue working on his OB and his focus on you. The 'watch me' command can be a lifesaver.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

I've had a trainer come yesterday and I will be taking a dog out tonight for socialization and training.

Few things first. Prong collars are illegal here. Trainer had a look at the dog and said that he's got a good temper and actually the dog had responded quiet well to him. He will be coming for a walk with me, kids and Titan in few days to see what is happening there. Food and dog aggression that he'e been exhibiting can be worked on he said. He gave us some pointers. 

He assumes that dog has been overly protective of the kids when i take them for a walk and therefore he will be coming with us in few days to work on that behavior. 

Hopefully things go well tonight Thanks to everyone for their input, it is greatly appreciated


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

a trainer told you that your dog is protective of your kids at 13 weeks?

ETA 17 weeks, still. he's still a baby. he can't be protecting anyone yet


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What about nylon choke collars? This may not be popular but when Seger started reacting to dogs, I lifted him off his feet for just a split second. Twice. No problem since. He wasn't being aggressive, just a punk. No verbal correction from me, just applied the choke collar. When I set him back down and he looked back at me, then I praised him.

I am not opposed to correctly for the dog being reactive. You need to shut that reaction down somehow so you can get their brain back. In a reactive state, they are not thinking. Once they are thinking, then you can apply LAT (which you need to teach in a quiet place before applying it to whatever their trigger is)

I doubt at such a young age your puppy is being protective of your kids. They just aren't mature enough at that age to come into their protective instincts. It is highly likely that it is fear or excitement. However, regardless of the reason the desired end result is the same.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Yes, either way we want it to stop. I will be working with him on that this Friday afternoon and hopefully we will make some progress. I do need to look into LAT and start that too.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

aleinad said:


> Yes, either way we want it to stop. I will be working with him on that this Friday afternoon and hopefully we will make some progress. I do need to look into LAT and start that too.



I brought it up because I doubt I can trust a trainer that said that. I guess they can still be a good trainer but i'd be wondering. 
I've had trainers that gave me advice that hurt us. So just be a little cautious. 

I think I remember you saying yu don't have too many choices where you are though. 


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LAT is easy. Sit the dog by your heeling side and with your other hand point at something. When he looks, treat with the hand his is sitting by. High so he has to look up at you. You want to develop the muscle memory of him looking and then looking Up and Back at you.

The important thing with LAT is to stay int eh dogs threshold. So if he is reacting, you need to back him up to a distance between him and the other dog where he is not reacting and THEN use LAT. Eventually that distance should get shorter and shorter.


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## scout172 (Sep 14, 2013)

Wow. So I guess he hasn't had much experience with dog training if that's his solution.


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

Yes, I've found this video. It makes it so simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdraNF2hcgA


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Does this really work? 
I guess I would've liked to see how bad she reacts first. She looks calm next to dogs but unless I can see her reaction it's hard to gauge how successful this is


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## aleinad (May 19, 2014)

I took my dog to the showgrounds and it went better than I expected At least so far. He was really scared because of so many dogs in close proximity. He weed few times in the beginning. After a while I was able to take him through his paces at a further spot. We got closer eventually. He did growl in the beginning but I was reassuring and it worked. At the end of the evening he seemed more relaxed and was able to tolerate other dogs better and at closer proximity. I will see how I go next week though.


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