# bloodlines and maturing



## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

hey i just had a question do working lines from belgium or west germany usually mature slower then american lines or german show lines?

I know east german lines are the slowest to mature. ALso was wondering is there anyway someone can look at a pedigree and predict roughly when that dog would mature? jus a question i dont think it is possible but thought id ask just for curioustiy


last was wondering just say my dog only had 35 percent czech in him or her could she still mature slow the way an east german dog does even with the little amount of blood she has?


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Mature for what? For working? Physical appearance? In terms of drive and mental attitude?

The Belgian dogs tend to be very drivey as young dogs, like a malinois. The German working line dogs vary a lot. The showline dogs tend to mature physically faster and tend to be less awkward as they mature (a result of people selecting for the show ring and keeping the dogs who are successful young and selling on those that are awkward or "ugly ducklings"). 

American dogs... just depends.

Typical "border patrol" Czech dogs mature more slowly than the German working lines, largely because their foundation goes back to the DDR dogs and also bc they get a lot of their strength from their defense drive, which develops more thoroughly as a dog matures. Nowadays, though, Czech dogs are often significantly intermingled with the German dogs, so the distinction isn't as great.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

sorry meant as far as mental attitude

does defense drive hit its fullest potential usually after the dog is 2?


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

pets4life said:


> sorry meant as far as mental attitude
> 
> does defense drive hit its fullest potential usually after the dog is 2?


Around then, I'd say. The dogs that mature early are often lower in defense, IMHO, so what you're seeing is early prey drive. But dogs that mature late might not physically stop growing until they are 3 and will take until they are 12-18 months to be ready/able to focus and concentrate to really be into training.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

i assume that west german or other lines of shepherds with some east german mixed in could either mature mentally slow (3 years) or fast (2 years) depending on the individual dog in that case?


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The "maturing" of the dog is something that I have found only has significance to people who are doing sport/work that involves bitework by the dog. Otherwise, if the dog is of sound nerve ...the maturing of the dog in any of these lines is pretty much the same, commensurate with the physical/mental development and the ownership.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> The "maturing" of the dog is something that I have found only has significance to people who are doing sport/work that involves bitework by the dog. Otherwise, if the dog is of sound nerve ...the maturing of the dog in any of these lines is pretty much the same, commensurate with the physical/mental development and the ownership.


Yes, precisely.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

thanks i just had a question this is out of curiousity how old does a dog usually have to be to be a street working patrol police dog? is there a min age?


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Not really, I have seen many Mals that were ready at 13 months, and most GS are usually between 18 and 24 months....still its all relevant as to whether the dog passes the academy or washes out as to whether the dog was ready regardless of the age.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

i read a lot of leerburg stuff on his site he always says "dogs start to mature at 18 months" i never really knew what he meant like they start to act like adults and loose the puppyness or some just turn into adults at that age always was just curious what he meant 

Like for example
" A dog does not develop a strong defensive drive until it starts to mature which is around 18 months of age."

http://leerburg.com/qapropup.htm#prot


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Each dog is different and each breed is different.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

> A dog does not develop a strong defensive drive until it starts to mature which is around 18 months of age.


A dog does not develop "social aggression" until they start to mature. It can vary but you may start to see it about that age. Some young dogs, (who really seems to confuse most people), mature earlier, where you will start to see this when they are not yet a year of age. Other dogs don't show any sign of it until much later, meaning after two or three years of age. It depends on the bloodline. Some never develop a sufficient level of social aggression. There are more of these dogs now . Breeding selections have brought that about over the last 10 to 15 years or so. In my opinion, the inability of people to understand what they are witnessing is the reason, not to mention, most people are simply incapable of handling a protective dog. So, the breeders just don't breed for it or they actively try to eliminate it. Social aggression is the core of the protective instinct. We see many dogs in SchH now who do not possess this. Therefore, it is rare to really see a dog displaying anything that even remotely resembles fight drive. There are too many reasons to list why this is a tragedy of the worst kind. Many do not realize how much this is related to everything a GSD should be capable of doing. 

You can see when your dog is starting to mature in this regard. They will start to mark territory, become more protective around the house. They might bark at strangers when before they did not , and so on. All young dogs need direction and confident handling when this starts. You can make quite a mess during this time if you are a nervous, reactive handler.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

vandal even though this social aggression is something that usually comes out after 18 months meaning this is when we usually notice and see it, the social aggression is something that was always there in a dog who has it we just dont notice it till the dog matures?


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