# First kill



## iglinska1

I was walking by some woods, and Koda chased a squirrel up into the woods, I called her back and she took longer then usual with a bloody tounge, giant smile, and was basically hoping for joy. She has never killed anything before, I love all animals and am sorry for the squirrel but deep down I'm a tad proud :blush: even though I shouldn't be. I'm not bragging about her doing this, this is HER bragging about her kill, had to give her that much. 

If a dog did this in public, could they get a dog aggression charge? My friends dog ran wild in her neibourhood and killed someones pet rabit by playing with it, and was deemed dangerous.


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## elisabeth_00117

I would be concerned with rabies and other diseases that the squirrels carry infecting my dog.

Stark goes NUTS for them too and has tried to chase them but thank goodness has never caught one.


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## iglinska1

She has her rabies shot, could she still get affected? I dont think she ate it, so thats a plus.


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## Zoeys mom

Rabies is actually really rare in squirrels but they do harbor other deadly parasites and bacterias you want to avoid along with worms which are easy to cure but really gross,lol. If your dog kills a pet yes they would be deemed dangerous....a squirrel no but if she gets used to being able to she's not going to discern a squirrel from a rabbit, cat, or small dog


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## Caitydid255

Freyja caught herself a squirrel not too long ago. I have no idea how she managed it. She was so proud, she brought it up to me and hit me in the leg with it. I was never so grateful that she knew "drop it" and "stay" so I could dispose of the animal. I told my veterinarian about it. He just had me provide a fecal sample 2 weeks later. Apparently mice, chipmunks, and squirrels are riddled with parasites that could infect a dog.

Also, Congratulations are in order for your girl!


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## hunterisgreat

iglinska1 said:


> She has her rabies shot, could she still get affected? I dont think she ate it, so thats a plus.


Its all but impossible for a squirrel to have rabies. This was from a Dr when a squirrel attacked my sister


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## iglinska1

Thanks, Im glad shes safe from rabies, ill have to get her a poop test next time I go into the vet. Koda is good with other small animals, shes been around ferrets and I have a cat which she adores and licks all over so Im not worried about her getting thirsty to kill, hopefully haha


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## onyx'girl

A squirrel attacked your sister? I wonder what brought that on?
Kacie has killed and eaten a squirrel. I worry about parasites mostly.


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## Jax's Mom

onyx'girl said:


> A squirrel attacked your sister? I wonder what brought that on?


I've been attacked by squirrels twice!  
The city ones are whacko... I work downtown and we have a small park-type patch in the middle of concrete buildings so they're pretty much resident squirrels and some of them develop quite a set from people feeding them on their lunch breaks... The first attack I was teasing one to come closer with a bag of stale bread... I know not to do that again... The second attack in was just walking home with a fresh loaf of bread to take home... Those little mofos are quite the bullies at night!!


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## NancyJ

You need to channel that drive to a toy. You really don't want your pup to chase critters. Can cause all kinds of problems. ..


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## Konotashi

I imagine the rabbit attack deemed your friend's dog dangerous because the attack was on someone else's pet. But I don't think that if your dog killed a wild squirrel that it would be considered dangerous, because if you think about it, people use dogs for hunting all the time. (Like pit bulls for boars). Given, they don't actually KILL the boars (usually), but they do attack them and hold on until the hunter can get there. 

But I was watching 1000 Ways to Die (such a reputable source, I know) and apparently a taxodermist ate a squirrel raw, contracted rabies from it, and died, so I would try to keep her from killing them. She should be fine, given she's had her shots, but just to be on the safe side.... (Plus squirrels are crazy). Haha.


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## BOHICA Bay

Any mammal can contract and spread rabies - including squirrels. And, as mentioned, rabies is not the only concern as far as things a dog can pick up from them.
That said, the real concern would be channeling the drive towards more desirable targets to avoid any possible issues with the dog seeking "prey" that could get you in trouble such as someone's pet.


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## jakeandrenee

jocoyn said:


> You need to channel that drive to a toy. You really don't want your pup to chase critters. Can cause all kinds of problems. ..


How is this possible when you are out in the woods on a trail hiking?


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## iglinska1

jakeandrenee said:


> How is this possible when you are out in the woods on a trail hiking?


Yeah, pretty much, I have a campus that has hiking trails around it. I keep her off leash most of the time,theres not that many little critters around here so I'm not too worried. She usually has a ball, toy, or stick to play with, Ill definitely make sure to keep an eye out next time.


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## iglinska1

Konotashi said:


> I imagine the rabbit attack deemed your friend's dog dangerous because the attack was on someone else's pet.


Yeah she was deemed dangerous, she tried to play with it and paralyzed it, unfortunate because shes not dangerous at all, just a little wild, but I can definitely see the dangers in that anyway. heh-loove 1000 ways to die.


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## BadLieutenant

Am I the ony one that sorta feels a little sad/confused that many of the members on here take delight in seeing their GSD kill another animal.


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## NancyJ

jakeandrenee said:


> How is this possible when you are out in the woods on a trail hiking?


You don't ever let them get started doing it. ....... it is very much possible with even the highest drive dog. If you are hiking and don't have that level of control over your dog, it should be on a leash.


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## Kayos and Havoc

I doubt chasing a squirrel would cause your dog to be considered aggressive but if she chases the neighbors cat the neighbor may not be happy and that could cause problems.


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## NancyJ

It is not agression -- the dog is chasing prey
BUT the squirrel will go up the tree, the deer will run and may cross a road and get your dog hit, the racoon may put up a nasty fight, the horse may also kill your dog. It is a control issue.


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## Good_Karma

I tell you what, letting your dog chase animals off leash is all well and good until he tries to do it while he's on leash. Then you wind up on your face and seriously peeved.


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## Rerun

BadLieutenant said:


> Am I the ony one that sorta feels a little sad/confused that many of the members on here take delight in seeing their GSD kill another animal.


It's not just you.


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## Cassidy's Mom

BOHICA Bay said:


> That said, the real concern would be channeling the drive towards more desirable targets to avoid any possible issues with the dog seeking "prey" that could get you in trouble such as someone's pet.


Totally. I would not be happy about my dogs killing another creature, even if it was just a squirrel. It's not something I'd ever encourage, for all the reasons stated so far.


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## tierra nuestra

jocoyn said:


> You don't ever let them get started doing it. ....... it is very much possible with even the highest drive dog. If you are hiking and don't have that level of control over your dog, it should be on a leash.


once they taste blood then yes you will have a problem with them in the future with killing.yes its natural for them to have "prey drive" but its not acceptable for a pet to go around killing needlessly and carelessly.Next time it may be a neighbours cat or small pet and the dog will not be able to discern killing a squirrel from a pet.


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## tierra nuestra

:help: It is needless to kill for fun or excitement.There should never be pleasure in killing.Kill to eat or kill to keep from being eaten and kill to be humane.


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## Kris10

iglinska1 said:


> I was walking by some woods, and Koda chased a squirrel up into the woods, I called her back and she took longer then usual with a bloody tounge, giant smile, and was basically hoping for joy. She has never killed anything before, I love all animals and am sorry for the squirrel but deep down I'm a tad proud :blush: even though I shouldn't be. I'm not bragging about her doing this, this is HER bragging about her kill, had to give her that much.
> 
> If a dog did this in public, could they get a dog aggression charge? My friends dog ran wild in her neibourhood and killed someones pet rabit by playing with it, and was deemed dangerous.


Was the squirrel just killed or eaten as well?


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## LaRen616

BadLieutenant said:


> Am I the ony one that sorta feels a little sad/confused that many of the members on here take delight in seeing their GSD kill another animal.


Nope.


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## BlackPuppy

When I was 18 I worked at a gas station that had a full time GSD. There was a doggie door to a fenced in area so he could go potty. Well, the owner didn't know this, but the dog would jump the fence every night and go roaming around the neighborhood and would return before morning. One morning he returned carrying half of a rabbit. I guess he decided to save some for later.


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## codmaster

jakeandrenee said:


> How is this possible when you are out in the woods on a trail hiking?


 
Training?


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## codmaster

Good_Karma said:


> I tell you what, letting your dog chase animals off leash is all well and good until he tries to do it while he's on leash. Then you wind up on your face and seriously peeved.


 
Shouldn't be allowed to chase any animal at any time.


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## HankGSD

Hank's great-aunt (yes, they are actually blood related) mauled a fox last fall. She caught sarcoptic mange, the whole house had to be disinfected and they had a very expensive vet bill.


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## RazinKain

BadLieutenant said:


> Am I the ony one that sorta feels a little sad/confused that many of the members on here take delight in seeing their GSD kill another animal.


Why feel sad OR confused?  Dogs have been bred to do this since long before recorded history. I happen to be an avid hunter, and I take a great deal of delight in killing all manner of critters (rabbits, squirrels, deer, hogs, coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, dove, quail, crane, ducks, geese, turkey, etc,). As a kid, I had a blue heeler that I would take rabbit hunting. I would end the day with several rabbits without having to fire a single shot. One day, when my son kills his first deer, I will be one proud daddy. Why should I not feel the same when my dog catches game? This is not a right or wrong issue, it's a cultural thing. Sorry you feel sad & confused.


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## onyx'girl

When Kacie got her squirrel I was heartbroken.
She only ate the head(and probably barfed it back up) 
What really is upsetting is the bunnies, they have a very sad scream...I've only heard it once when Stomper found a nest. Luckily animals are smart and don't raise family's in my yard. Though last Spring, we had a couple possum babies drown in our Koi pond, not sure if they fell from the tree above or were trying to drink, but they were young enough to still be nursing.


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## NancyJ

The GSD was never bred to hunt THEN kill. The bite for herding and police work was controlled and deep and not a killing bite. 

I don't get the delight, particularly given the mode of death for the prey animal,....it kind of makes me queasy.....but that said there are people who hunt with dogs of all kinds. But hunting dogs do live a dangerous life. Don't most hunters strive to drop their game quickly and humanely? I mean deer meat even tastes different if the poor animal has been hit by a badly placed arrow and runs for miles before death.

The OP should be aware of the danger and also consider the possible consequences...and also how to deal with it if the dog jumped a deer and caused a fatal car crash? What if that got transferred to other animals (it will you know).


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## sagelfn

tierra nuestra said:


> once they taste blood then yes you will have a problem with them in the future with killing..


Look out raw feeders :wild:


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## RazinKain

jocoyn said:


> The GSD was never bred to hunt THEN kill. The bite for herding and police work was controlled and deep and not a killing bite.
> 
> I don't get the delight, particularly given the mode of death for the prey animal,....it kind of makes me queasy.....but that said there are people who hunt with dogs of all kinds. But hunting dogs do live a dangerous life. Don't most hunters strive to drop their game quickly and humanely? I mean deer meat even tastes different if the poor animal has been hit by a badly placed arrow and runs for miles before death.
> 
> The OP should be aware of the danger and also consider the possible consequences...and also how to deal with it if the dog jumped a deer and caused a fatal car crash? What if that got transferred to other animals (it will you know).


You're right. But it has as much or more prey drive than most other breeds, which should make it a great hunting dog for certain types of game.

Understandable. I wouldn't want to be chewed to death by a GSD either. But, in all fairness, not every shot from a firearm is a clean instant death either.

Absolutely

Also agreed. If you encourage your dog to hunt/chase, you'd better have control over the dog. A sold 'recall' and 'leave it' is a must for a hunting dog.

BTW, the dog in your avatar looks awesome!


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## cassadee7

Well, I don't want my dog killing anything, but I have friends who hunt and that is their business. If my dog were to kill something (say, a squirrel in the yard) I'd be sad because I like squirrels. But I wouldn't be upset at the dog.

I'll just do what I can to prevent it.


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## GregK

RazinKain said:


> I take a great deal of delight in killing all manner of critters .


Really? It's 'delightful' for you to kill??


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## tierra nuestra

RazinKain said:


> Why feel sad OR confused?  Dogs have been bred to do this since long before recorded history. I happen to be an avid hunter, and I take a great deal of delight in killing all manner of critters (rabbits, squirrels, deer, hogs, coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, dove, quail, crane, ducks, geese, turkey, etc,). As a kid, I had a blue heeler that I would take rabbit hunting. I would end the day with several rabbits without having to fire a single shot. One day, when my son kills his first deer, I will be one proud daddy. Why should I not feel the same when my dog catches game? This is not a right or wrong issue, it's a cultural thing. Sorry you feel sad & confused.


Please do not say this is cultural.Killing for pleasure or getting joy out of ending a life just does not fly right by anyones standards.I understand killing for food but killing for fun?Did you know that you share a common trait with many psychopath serial killers in history?They all derived pleasure in killing animals which then graduated into larger subjects.There should never be joy in taking away life no matter how small and defenseless.And defenseless verses a .22 or 12 gauge?great odds to feel good about.


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## codmaster

RazinKain said:


> Why feel sad OR confused?  Dogs have been bred to do this since long before recorded history. I happen to be an avid hunter, and I take a great deal of delight in killing all manner of critters (rabbits, squirrels, deer, hogs, coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, dove, quail, crane, ducks, geese, turkey, etc,). As a kid, I had a blue heeler that I would take rabbit hunting. I would end the day with several rabbits without having to fire a single shot. One day, when my son kills his first deer, I will be one proud daddy. Why should I not feel the same when my dog catches game? This is not a right or wrong issue, it's a cultural thing. Sorry you feel sad & confused.


I will tell you the same as I tell the idiots that I know who let their cat out "because it is in their nature" to hunt and kill smaller animals.

As long as you don't mind if your dog is attacked and killed by a mountain lion or a wolf or maybe a pack of coyotes when he is running around out in the woods killing smaller animals - why *not* be proud of your dog for needlessly killing wild animals? Great idea!

Hey, if your dog really likes to kill smaller animals (and you are proud of him for doing so and it is in his nature, why not let him fight a smaller pit bull? (with apologies to all pit bulls!)


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## RazinKain

tierra nuestra said:


> Please do not say this is cultural.Killing for pleasure or getting joy out of ending a life just does not fly right by anyones standards.I understand killing for food but killing for fun?Did you know that you share a common trait with many psychopath serial killers in history?They all derived pleasure in killing animals which then graduated into larger subjects.There should never be joy in taking away life no matter how small and defenseless.And defenseless verses a .22 or 12 gauge?great odds to feel good about.


are you serious? You're comparing every hunter in this country to a psychopathic serial killer because they enjoy hunting? Grow up.


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## RazinKain

codmaster said:


> I will tell you the same as I tell the idiots that I know who let their cat out "because it is in their nature" to hunt and kill smaller animals.
> 
> As long as you don't mind if your dog is attacked and killed by a mountain lion or a wolf or maybe a pack of coyotes when he is running around out in the woods killing smaller animals - why *not* be proud of your dog for needlessly killing wild animals? Great idea!
> 
> Hey, if your dog really likes to kill smaller animals (and you are proud of him for doing so and it is in his nature, why not let him fight a smaller pit bull? (with apologies to all pit bulls!)


ridiculous argument. why don't we just euthanize every hunting dog in the country while we're at it, simply because you don't agree with it.


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## Jessiewessie99

I understand to hunt for food and had the assistance of a dog to help track the animal, but I would not be proud if my dog killed another animal, IMO. Of course I wouldn't be mad at the dog. I would never take pleasure in killing another animal of any species(Except spiders! They are creepers!).

My previous dogs(Sheltie Mixes) especially Simba, had medium to high prey drive and went around killing rats, then started killing birds and taking their heads off. It was not a pleasant sight seeing a bunch of a dead things in our backyard. We had their shots(thank goodness) and made sure they had nothing else wrong with them.

Tanner has high prey drive as well, and has killed a bird. It was sad because the bird was trying to fly. We do not encourage it and try to control it.


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## tierra nuestra

RazinKain said:


> are you serious? You're comparing every hunter in this country to a psychopathic serial killer because they enjoy hunting? Grow up.


We cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolerates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity. 
-- Rachel Carson
not every hunter will turn into a sociopath but every sociopath serial killer killed small animals for pleasure.sorry thats the way the cookie crumbles when you group your self as a hunter who derives "pleasure" out of killing critters.who really needs to grow up here and get a bit of compassion?I understand killing to eat and make a way of life,I DO NOT UNDERSTAND OR EVEN WANT TO WHEN YOU KILL FOR FUN.


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## RazinKain

tierra nuestra said:


> We cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolerates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity.
> -- Rachel Carson
> not every hunter will turn into a sociopath but every sociopath serial killer killed small animals for pleasure.sorry thats the way the cookie crumbles when you group your self as a hunter who derives "pleasure" out of killing critters.who really needs to grow up here and get a bit of compassion?I understand killing to eat and make a way of life,I DO NOT UNDERSTAND OR EVEN WANT TO WHEN YOU KILL FOR FUN.


Remember this the next time you sit down to a cheeseburger or a steak dinner.

What? So thousands of hunters take to the field every year because they *dislike* killing?


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## sagelfn

Why do hunters call themselves hunters?

All the hunters I know are more like waiters. They go to a spot and wait for a deer to come by. Move to another spot and wait for a deer to come by. 

I know some avid Call of Duty players that call those people campers, they HATE campers.


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## codmaster

RazinKain said:


> ridiculous argument. why don't we just euthanize every hunting dog in the country while we're at it, simply because you don't agree with it.


What's the matter - don't like it when the "prey" is bigger/better than your dog?
That is, when the "hunter" becomes the "hunted". Better stay out of the woods!

While we are at it - how *would* you feel if your dog was attacked in the woods by a bigger/fiercer animal, really? Wouldn't you be upset, even a little bit, for your poor dog who was only doing what you allowed him to do?

There is absolutely no need for a pet dog (or cat for that matter) to be allowed to go "hunting" simply to kill any of the group of small animals living in the wild. None!


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## RazinKain

sagelfn said:


> *Why do hunters call themselves hunters?*
> 
> All the hunters I know are more like waiters. They go to a spot and wait for a deer to come by. Move to another spot and wait for a deer to come by.
> 
> I know some avid Call of Duty players that call those people campers, they HATE campers.


call us killers then if it makes you feel more righteous, or psychopaths, or idiots (as codmaster put it), it really makes no difference to me. Seems to be the general consensus here anyway.

Well, I'm done for the night, time to go home. Maybe there will be a cute lil bunny rabbit in my yard when I get there, so I can sic Kain on him. We can only hope.


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## Jessiewessie99

I would be cautious when having someone "sic" their dog on the animal, mainly for my dogs safety.


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## Anja1Blue

The only thing I find amazing about this thread is that there are 5 pages of response to it. Would that we could find such passion on here about shelters which employ gassing or heartstick to kill their animals. Many of my dogs have killed something over the years - stray cats which got into the yard, squirrels, mice, etc. Did I feel good about it? No. Would I post it under "Braggs"? Absolutely not. A "Bragg" for me was a SchH3.......
__________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## Good_Karma

codmaster said:


> Shouldn't be allowed to chase any animal at any time.


That was the point I was trying to make. I said "I tell you what, letting your dog chase animals off leash is all well and good until he tries to do it while he's on leash. Then you wind up on your face and seriously peeved." I could have worded it better, but I was trying to get the point across that if your dog likes to chase small running animals, he may completely forget (or decide he doesn't care) that he is on leash and lunge for a passing squirrel, resulting in previously mentioned face plant. Thus it is better to not let him get into chasing small running animals in the first place and save yourself the trouble later.


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## CassandGunnar

tierra nuestra said:


> not every hunter will turn into a sociopath but every sociopath serial killer killed small animals for pleasure.sorry thats the way the cookie crumbles when you group your self as a hunter who derives "pleasure" out of killing critters.who really needs to grow up here and get a bit of compassion?I understand killing to eat and make a way of life,I DO NOT UNDERSTAND OR EVEN WANT TO WHEN YOU KILL FOR FUN.


This not actually true. Not EVERY seriel killer killed small animals for pleasure. Actually, cruelty to animals is only one of a triangle of behaviors in young children that MAY indicate future sociopathic behavior. 

Macdonald Triangle - _J.M. Macdonald's publication "The Threat to Kill" theorized that three significant childhood themes for predicting sociopathic behavior in adults: obsession with fire starting, cruelty toward __animals__ and bed wetting. _
I also hunt and grew up hunting. I don't think anyone feels worse than a hunter who has not made a "clean" kill and many will take personal risks to make sure that any animal suffers as little as possible.


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## Jax's Mom

Would be proud that my dog possessed the skills to actually catch an animal but not that the animal died... I'd be just as proud if he caught a frisbee in the air so I can see what the OP is saying. 
As for hunters, do people prefer that we get our food from "chicken mills" or "piggy mills" where animals are locked in a pen and laying in their own feces until they're finally slaughtered and placed neatly on a styrofoam tray?
If I had to hunt for my own food I'd likely starve to death because I just couldnt do it, but I'd much prefer my food was killed in the wild than knowing its last memory is being loaded into an 18 wheeler headed for the slaughter house.


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## codmaster

RazinKain said:


> call us killers then if it makes you feel more righteous, or psychopaths, or idiots (as codmaster put it), it really makes no difference to me. Seems to be the general consensus here anyway.
> 
> Well, I'm done for the night, time to go home. Maybe there will be a cute lil bunny rabbit in my yard when I get there, so I can sic Kain on him. We can only hope.


 
If you are going to quote me, PLEASE try your very best to do it accurately (if you can!). Read my posts twice, or even three times if you have to, in order to understand what I really said.

And if you do try to sic your big fierce dog on a wild creature, why not try a coyote or two, instead of a rabbit? Make the contest a little more sporting. Unless you are afraid for your dog? If you are, train him to chase robins instead.


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## Dainerra

Wow...just wow.
There is a HUGE difference in taking pride/enjoyment in your skill as a hunter and a sociopath who takes joy in torture and suffering. Part of what makes someone a good hunter is the ability to make a clean kill.

Second, the whole taste of blood thing? Not true. There are a ton of people here with raw-fed dogs that are proof.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

But once they do get to catching/killing prey - that I can say I am betting is NOT a good thing if you don't want a livestock, rodent killer. 

Like a first bite on a fear aggressive dog - you have set the threshold much lower for that dog now to repeat that behavior. 

Nancy made some great informative posts here.


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## BOHICA Bay

Dainerra said:


> Wow...just wow.
> There is a HUGE difference in taking pride/enjoyment in your skill as a hunter and a sociopath who takes joy in torture and suffering. Part of what makes someone a good hunter is the ability to make a clean kill.
> 
> *Second, the whole taste of blood thing? Not true. There are a ton of people here with raw-fed dogs that are proof.*


I think it would be remiss not to consider that this is apples to oranges comparison. There is a world of difference between a raw diet being presented to a dog by the owner and a dog learning the thrill of chasing, catching and dispatching an animal.


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## Dainerra

But it has nothing to do with "taste of blood". It is the same reward that the dog gets from killing a squeeky toy. The kill/thrill is a self-rewarding behavior. The dog doesn't even care if it catches the animal, let alone killing it. For the large majority of dogs, there is no intent to kill - they are having fun. The fact that they kill is more accident than design.

As far as livestock goes, a dog that chases is just as dangerous as a wolf with intent to kill. Again, though, it's not "taste of blood" its the fact that its FUN. Guess it's just.a matter of sementics


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## BOHICA Bay

Dainerra said:


> But it has nothing to do with "taste of blood". It is the same reward that the dog gets from killing a squeeky toy. The kill/thrill is a self-rewarding behavior. The dog doesn't even care if it catches the animal, let alone killing it. For the large majority of dogs, there is no intent to kill - they are having fun. The fact that they kill is more accident than design.
> 
> As far as livestock goes, a dog that chases is just as dangerous as a wolf with intent to kill. Again, though, it's not "taste of blood" its the fact that its FUN. Guess it's just.a matter of sementics


So, if it has nothing to do with it why bring it in as an argument in the first place?


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## Kris10

BOHICA Bay said:


> So, if it has nothing to do with it why bring it in as an argument in the first place?


They didn't bring it into the argument, someone else did. I think what they are trying to say, and I tend to agree, is the old expression of "getting a taste of blood" leading to repeating the behavior isn't necessarily true. I asked way back in the thread if the squirrel was eaten and with no response assume that the dog chased the prey, " stopped it", and returned.


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## Dainerra

What kris said..  someone stated that once the dog had a taste of blood, it would be impossible to get them to stop. It is actually much more common that the dog never consumes anything that it killed.


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## Jessiewessie99

I agree there is a big difference between hunters and crazed killers. And also dogs won't become crazy and want to kill everything after they have the taste of blood.


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## Lauri & The Gang

tierra nuestra said:


> once they taste blood then yes you will have a problem with them in the future with killing.


That's like saying anyone that owns a gun and has shot it will eventually shoot and kill a person.

Sorry but bull.

My previous GSDs grew up around chickens, ducks and the meat rabbits I raised. I NEVER ONCE had a problem with my GSDs killing the chickens or ducks I raised, even though they caught, killed and ATE the wild rabbits that managed to get into our 2 acre fenced field.

LGD - Livestock Guardian Dogs - are a prime example. When a wolf comes at the animals they guard the dogs don't go out and have a sit-down and talk with the,

They chase them down and kill them - and still manage to not kill the hundreds of goats, sheep or whatever other livestock they guard.

Some of my favorite pictures ...

This is my boy Remi, eating his chicken leg quarters right next to Roscoe, a chicken I was house raising:











Riggs with baby Roscoe on his nose:










Riggs with a litter of my meat rabbits:











The whole gang, including Sparks a foster dog, with the chickens:


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## Jax's Mom

OMG I love those pics!
I hope you don't mind but I've stolen them!


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## codmaster

Very cute!


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## RazinKain

Awesome pics Lauri! Thanks for the share.


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## CassandGunnar

I just wanna know what the Roscoe was thinking in the first picture.

"I gotta eat up and get out of here before he finishes and decides he wants seconds"!

Those are awesome pictures


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## iglinska1

RazinKain said:


> Well, I'm done for the night, time to go home. Maybe there will be a cute lil bunny rabbit in my yard when I get there, so I can sic Kain on him. We can only hope.


 firstly, I must say hallarious, I did not think this would get me so many posts. I think theres some confusion, we were walking, and she went and explored a few meters away from me, and I kinda let her chase it, once I saw she stopped I called her back and she came right away, she left the critter in the woods, didnt even have time for a dinner . 

For those that say I have to keep her on the leash, since I have no apparent control, I don't think so. Her recall is just getting better, it took her a week to stay for her ball, now she only goes when I say "get it". 

The kill was a little my fault, I wanted her to get it, I should feel bad and ashamed but I don't, theres so many where I live anyways. 

And those of you who hunt, props to you, humans are ment to hunt, its part of nature and evolution


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## Jax's Mom

CassandGunnar said:


> I just wanna know what the Roscoe was thinking in the first picture.


I dunno but I bet he was real compliant after that display! :rofl:


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## iglinska1

super cute pictures, btw. 

And I wasnt totally bragging, it was Koda, she told me to do it.


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## Jessiewessie99

The bunnies and GSD picture is just totally cute.


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## Locknload

I enjoy taking my dog out A-hole hunting with me. I mean, it's open season out here year round and there's no limit. It will be a cold day in Hades before A-holes make it on the endangered species list.

I usually use bait, which can be anything from a six-pack to a broken down lawn mower. Sometimes, I'll use the goat. That's only for _special_ A-holes. The sporting goods store in my area sells A-hole calls. They also sell A-hole scent, but I'm kinda leery about that one....

While the dog and I are watching the bait, we'll swap stories and share a bottle of iced tea. There's no need to be quiet. A-holes don't spook easily. When one shows up, it's a clean and easy kill. We bury it then. No sense poisoning any critter desperate enough to eat it.

If a pack shows up, I'll have my dog cut off the leader and separate it from the others. A-holes tend to mill around in confusion when their leader goes missing, but once the shooting starts, you have to do it fast because they'll scatter.


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## LARHAGE

I have horses and had chickens and pet rabbits, my dogs lived peacefully with them all, even though they chase the wild rabbits that come on the property, I specifically got my terriers to keep the mice and rats at bay, as well as to kill the gophers and ground squirrels, when you have horses,rodents of all sizes and species are a constant battle, they are either crapping in your horse feed spreading disgusting filthy germs, or eating your leather saddles and bridles, I detest them, and the squirrels dig burrows in your stalls and arenas creating dangerous holes for horses to step in and seriously injure themselves, so yeah, my terriers are not only encouraged to attack and kill the rodents, they are selectively bred to be good at it...... and they are, they are worth their weight in gold.


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## codmaster

LARHAGE said:


> I have horses and had chickens and pet rabbits, my dogs lived peacefully with them all, even though they chased the wild rabbits that came on the property, I specifically got my terriers to keep the mice and rats at bay, as well as to kill the gophers and ground squirrels, when you have horses rodents of all
> sizes and species are a constant battle, they are either crapping in your horse feed spreading disgusting filthy germs or eating your leather saddles and bridles, I detest them, and the squirrels dig burrows in your stalls and arenas creating dangerous holes for horses to step in and seriously injure themselves, so yeah, my terriers are not only encouraged to attack and kill the rodents, they are selectively bred to be good at it...... and they are, they are worth their weight in gold.


In your case, the dogs have a good purpose in attacking the vermin - it is not just a game or "fun" for them! *Big difference* in just letting the pet dog out into the field to kill a rabbit or squirrel etc.


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## pets4life

my cat has caught a couple of squreels we only like her catching rats or mice that get into our basement for safety reasons but i agree i dont think it is good for a dog to kill anything

my cat was a stray feral taught by her mother how to hunt at a young age because she didnt have a choice until i resuced her though she still really loves eating other animals it never grew out of her. 

when i go out with my dog sometimes there is a rabbit or a cat in my yard i talk really loud to her like i am having a conversation with her this gives whatever animal in my yard a big head start before she sees it and goes after it 

rabbits use the city and around houses to get away from many predators that are in the woods

there are also animals that ur dog might kill that are a lot more rare and are protected species 

then there are animals that will put up a nasty fight to the point your dog may have to get his face sew back together like fishers, or raccoons 

there was a cute fox that lived under my parents deck over the winter very timid would go out at night to hunt and come back was killed by someones dog and everyone was so proud of the dog i felt so disgusted i wanted to tell them off and scream at them. 

chasing deer is dangerous if a dog ever finds a deer fawn the mother will beat the living snot out of it i have videos of deer going and beating dogs silly on youtube when the dog went to close to her fawn 

best to live at peace with nature if they wanna hunt or catch prey they got their ball for that!

i knew a man that would unleash rabbits he said it would bring up his dogs "prey drive" no one even acted like it was a bad thing seemed kinda sick and sadistic to me though i would report someone if i heard about them doing that now and it was not legal.


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## Wolfgeist

Rabies is highest in skunks and bats (They say that 9 out of 10 skunks carry rabies). The vaccination will protect your dog, but you want to avoid it JUST in case. Dogs are predators, predators hunt - she was successful, so I bet she was super proud of herself. She doesn't need to kill to eat, though, so maybe a 'leave it' command can keep the local wildlife save.


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## pets4life

there was an article i will try to find it but it was about how it is a myth that dogs will keep humans safe from predators in the wild

to a cougar or a few wolves a dog is something they want to kill while wolves and cougars will avoid humans dogs might attract them

i am going to try to find it but dogs are a good detterant agaisnt men in the woods but while walking into another predators domain while it is hunting a dog will attract that pretadtor 

humans will then be in danger when they are trying to fend off a angry mother bear that the dog provoked or young cougar starving looking for an easy meal on its new found territory 

the person will not only be faced with defending their dog but also themseleves

coyotes/coyote crosses will purposly lure out dogs into the woods and then gang up and kill them it has happen so many times many coyotes are skilled at this 

i saw another member say why dont u send your dog after a cyote which is very very dangerous cause where this is one there is more that one will drag the dog out to an ambush to a nasty death 

no chasing at all is the best safest thing to pratice while out in the woods 

if you let your dog vanish chasing after something one day your dog may not come back it happens more often then u think here in north america dogs are NOT on top of the food chain like they are in the uk


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## codmaster

If you are around coyotes, get a Komondor! They use them in the west to guard sheep herds in coyote land! Maybe you could train them to protect your GSD as well.


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## codmaster

pets4life said:


> there was an article i will try to find it but it was about how it is a myth that dogs will keep humans safe from predators in the wild
> 
> to a cougar or a few wolves a dog is something they want to kill while wolves and cougars will avoid humans dogs might attract them
> 
> ......................


 
OTOH, a dog will at least let you know that there is something there a lot sooner than a person can detect a predator!

And most of the time those things will tend to run away from a dog. Don't forget, dogs are used to hunt both lions and bears!


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## pets4life

they do run if they are bveing hunted by a person on horseback but a lot of times tthe dog will end up the prey hound dogs have been killed by wolves many times WHEN THE HUNTER LOST THEM because the wolves feared the hunter NOT THE DOGs

and cougars have taken dogs as prey a lot also im gonna try and find that aritcle in regards to hikking with your dog in the woods in cougar country some cougars the ones that have not learned how to take down harder game like deer will find dogs an easy quick meal. large dogs are quickly carried off. The cougars are afraid of humans and will run off if a human backs up the dog. BUt the dog itself in the Predators own domain is not going to scare away a top predator like a cougar or wolves.

komodors are great defense dogs to have around our own property but if you went and dropped a komodor deep in the woods by itself where wolves and cougars already claimed their own territory and the komador was not living on human territory that dog would be dead in one night. 

i am a part of LGD forum and they will say over and over if you have a serious predator issue like a wolf or cougar you will always need more then one dog because no single dog can handle one of the above and it will turn into food itself. You ned a lilttle pack of them.
we humans and our housing and presense put the fear of god into most animals even the largest most powerful predators.


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## codmaster

pets4life said:


> they do run if they are bveing hunted by a person on horseback but a lot of times tthe dog will end up the prey hound dogs have been killed by wolves many times
> 
> and cougars have taken dogs as prey a lot also im gonna try and find that aritcle in regards to hikking with your dog in the woods in cougar country some cougars the ones that have not learned how to take down harder game like deer will find dogs an easy quick meal. large dogs are quickly carried off. The cougars are afraid of humans and will run off if a human backs up the dog. BUt the dog itself in the Predators own domain is not going to scare away a top predator like a cougar or wolves.
> 
> komodors are great defense dogs to have around our own property but if you went and dropped a komodor deep in the woods by itself where wolves and cougars already claimed their own territory and the komador was not living on human territory that dog would be dead in one night.
> 
> i am a part of LGD forum and they will say over and over if you have a serious predator issue like a wolf or cougar you will always need more then one dog because no single dog can handle one of the above and it will turn into food itself. You ned a lilttle back of them.
> we humans and our housing and presense put the fear of god into most animals even the largest most powerful predators.


Pets, Have you ever been in the woods and/or hunted lions or wolves?

In CA, mountain lions also hunt people! BTW, I like my chances MUCH better with a dog or two!

How do you suppose that we humans have "put the fear of god" into predators?

Why would you drop any dog into the deep woods by itself?

Why would a cougar run from a person on horseback and not from one who is walking? Could they be afraid of the horse?


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## pets4life

men walking or running on horseback wasnt trying to state any diff between them

humans put the fear of god into animals by hunting them the predators that avoid humans are the ones that survive and not get shot and killed. That is why a lot of predators you will see are very human shy. Otherwise humans are wimpy creatures why wouldnt predators be trying to take us out a lot? Thousands of humans go into national parks every year you hear of very little attacks. Compared to how large predators are in those places.

Look up cougar statistics there was like what 20 deaths in like 100 years? I can find my records if you want it is so small for an animal that can take out a human real easy. 

the dropping the dog off in the woods comment i meant to say the fear and reason why predators run from dogs is because of their relation to US not because the predator is afraid of the dog itself.


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## pets4life

on the hunting thing no i do not hunt any animals period ever hunting wolves and cougars i think is just wrong 

but i do know many dogs that have fallen prey or been killed by wildlife.

many large ones also


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## Rott-n-GSDs

sagelfn said:


> Look out raw feeders :wild:


LOL, I have a coworker that is convinced my dogs are going to kill me in my sleep because I raw feed. She says they will become "bloodthirsty." *dies of laughter* I ask her if kibble fed dogs chase the grocery delivery truck. I said my dogs are more likely to maul the refrigerator... since that's where All Things Wonderfully Tasty come from. When my dogs are hungry, they sit next to the fridge and press themselves against it. *giggle*



Lauri & The Gang said:


> Riggs with a litter of my meat rabbits:


This photo is ADORABLE!!!


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