# x-ray hips for any experienced people



## Pedrooo (Jun 7, 2010)

*Hello There,*
*I x-rayed my dog and ofa'd him . his elbows are a1 and his hips are a3 *
*HD-SV: HD a-noch zugelassen (a3)*

*is it ok or bad? can i breed him?*


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

a1 = Excellent -- So his elbows are excellent

a3 I am not sure but a-noch zugelassen means "certified still permissible" So I am assuming something like "fair" rating

There is more to breeding than hip/elbow ratings. So until you know more about breeding I say no do not breed him. There are a lot of helpful threads on here about breeding you should read or ask some questions.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Pedrooo said:


> *Hello There,*
> *I x-rayed my dog and ofa'd him . his elbows are a1 and his hips are a3 *
> *HD-SV: HD a-noch zugelassen (a3)*
> 
> *is it ok or bad? can i breed him?*


Pedrooo,

Nooooooo! Don't pop the 'B' question around here. You'll get your feelings hurt and go away mad.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

A3 is the OFA equivalent of Mild HD. Dysplastic, yes when looking at their comparison chart. You said you OFA'd him too - have you gotten their score back yet? Under SV an A3 is still permissible for breeding, their version of Fair. 

Personally I would not buy a dog who had A3s in their pedigree or even many A2s for that matter. A few A2s is fine, but don't want to see a pedigree loaded with them. And for me an A3 is a no go. Too high a risk.

"I" would not breed a dog that rated A3 but you will find people who will and people who won't. For me I think it's too risky, unless the dog were really exceptional and only then I would breed to a line with a very strong hip history. 

For a male to stud as an A3? There are lots of males available with A1 and A2 that I would not even bother looking at a stud with a grade of A3 - lots of better graded males to choose from.


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## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

So I took a breather and came back to answer you...

Firstly I'll be blunt, 'cause I see no other way to put it: if you don't know what those things mean, you're nowhere near ready to breed your dog.

This forum has a wealth of knowledge to start off from - I suggest you read every thread on breeding and health/genetics and pedigrees. After that, stock up on literature and read up. Breeding is far from easy, and it's deeper than a1 elbows - please study breeding and everything about the GSD before you make any decisions about breeding your dog.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

a3 means his hips would be allowed ("still permissable") for breeding in Germany.... as long as he had a title and preferably a breed survey. 

Personally, if it were my dog, I'd re-xray at 2 years and submit them to OFA. The breeding decision should depend on a whole lot of other factors.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

BlackthornGSD said:


> a3 means his hips would be allowed ("still permissable") for breeding in Germany.... as long as he had a title and preferably a breed survey.
> 
> Personally, if it were my dog, I'd re-xray at 2 years and submit them to OFA. The breeding decision should depend on a whole lot of other factors.


Well put and also what I would do! :thumbup:


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

What other factors and qualities do you think your dog possesses that would make him breeding quality? I think one would be hard pressed to use a dog for breeding with those hip scores unless he brought a lot of other very good things to the table.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

spiritsmom said:


> A3 is the OFA equivalent of Mild HD. Dysplastic, yes when looking at their comparison chart. You said you OFA'd him too - have you gotten their score back yet? Under SV an A3 is still permissible for breeding, their version of Fair.


Those comparison charts floating around the internet are not entirely accurate. One cannot automatically equate a3 to mild HD and assume it is dysplastic. The different rating systems cannot be compared in that manner. I have known a3 dogs who OFAed Fair and Good, and a1 dogs who failed OFA. 

As far as not breeding an a3 dog, or dogs with such ratings in their pedigree, obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion there but I don't think any one factor should automatically make or break a dog for breeding. Certainly not merely the hip rating, unless the hips are truly bad. One has to look at the ancestors and other relatives. That a3 dog may well carry much better hip genetics than a whole lot of a1s and OFA Excellents out there. One has to research beyond just the individual rating to make a sound decision on hips, and then look at the whole dog, not any one aspect, to make a sound decision on breeding.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Excellent post Chris...:thumbup:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

A3 is still permissible for breeding under the German system. I would get the results from OFA before making a final decision. I have no problem with seeing NZ in a pedigree, so long as there is not a lot of them. Fast normal is just fine, and I have known two fast normal dogs to throw normal pups. People like to equate fast normal with OFA fair, but my guess is that some fast normals would range in normal, and some would range in fair. It is not a direct correlation between the two, and no way to really tell, by the the score where they would fall in the OFA system.

Another thing to look at in the German system is their overall HD score which takes into consideration their progeny too. So what they produce.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

as others have said - 'a'3 is NOT automatically dysplastic! and 'a'3 and FCI B and C hips often recertify at 2 or even older with OFA at Good or better ...

It is not a black and white issue as far as breeding a dog wiht an NZ rating....there are many other factors, and any breeding decision should not be made lightly - but it would have to be a super male to attact any knowledgable owners to use him with NZ hips...a WUSV dog, a dog known to NOT throw hip issues - I would have to think long and hard to even consider an 'a' normal dog if he has a reputation for poor hip production and I can see it in progeny records...

Most nice, club level Sch3 dogs with 'a' normal hips are not highly sought after for stud service - so I would not count on owners of females lining up to use him.

Lee


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

Same dog that he posted about previously that had problems walking and with his hips after being boarded at the vet. Makes me think the dog may indeed be dysplastic if he has already shown hip trouble.

So what would set this dog apart from all the other stud dogs that have better hip grades? What if this dog came from a line of A3 rated dogs? There are SO many studs available out there, what makes this dog worthy of being bred despite his A3 hips? What else has he got to bring to the table in other words? Titles, other health testing, pedigree?


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