# Any thoughts on Desert Lake Shepherds breeder?



## guccissima (Oct 4, 2010)

Hi, 
Does anyone know if this breeder in California is reputable? Could you give me some thoughts?
Testimonials

Thanks.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Can't find anything on titles and OFA testing. They mix lines (american showline, ddr, etc), so i'm not really sure what they're trying to accomplish with their breeding program. They have one "old fashioned" american german shepherd whatever that is or means. Definitely a big pet peeve for myself when they mention "old fashioned" when describing their dogs.

Not too sure on their health guarantees. A puppy has a 2 year warranty on hip dysplasia, but the OFA won't even look to offical (unless you do prelims) gradings until 2 years old, so i'm not sure about that breeders guarantee and why she just that time frame.

Probably nice people who care about their dogs, but definitely amateur hour over there. I personally wouldn't buy one of their dogs.

What are you trying to do with your new pup? Any sports or just a companion type thing? Any specific look you had in mind?


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

First red flag for me was "puppies will be picked out in order of deposits." I don't think any breeder should put a family with a pup based on when the deposit was received - the pup should go with the family that matches its personality best. 

They also guarantee the hips for 2 years. You can't have a dog OFA'd until they're 24 months old, so that can backfire easily unless maybe you go the DAY the dog turns 2 years old. 

I DO like the fact that they said that in their contract that if you can't keep the dog, you are to give it back to them.

I don't like seeing 'old fashioned' on Alexis' page. That's a red flag, IMO.

Also, none of their dogs appear to have titles in any venue, such as SchH, agility, or OB, nor do they appear to have any health clearances. HUGE red flag to me. How can they guarantee their pups if their parents aren't cleared? Looks like they just got dogs from awesome lines (I don't know about lines, just going off of what it says on their dogs' pages), and then assumed that they're good for breeding.

Personally, I don't feel that their pups are worth $1,000. I wouldn't get a pup from them.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

First the red flag above, when they say puppies picked out in order of deposit.. That is a pretty normal practice,,,you send in a deposit your 1st on the waiting list, that type of thing..They aren't saying (atleast how I read it), that you get to go in and pick out your puppy,,puppies are matched, but in order of deposit. 

Guaranteeing hips for 2 years is not an uncommon practice either, you can have hips prelimed, (if they are bad they ain't gonna get better),,yes, they can't get an official OFA number until 2, but they can certainly xray prior to that. 

I agree, I see no titles or ofa's on the website, that I would check into and want to see it in writing...(espec ofa)....

It's a mishmash of lines, but Longworth is a very well known OLD kennel, that put out some amazing dogs, I see some ddr there, Reiko von hena-c being Masi's grandfather. 

While it is a mishmash of lines, I have to say, I like the male Mikey. nice looking dog.

I think Doc would know more about the Longworth lines? I could be wrong. 

It depends on what your looking for.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

> I don't like seeing 'old fashioned'.


A few people mentioned this. Why does this description send up a red flag? What comes to mind when you see this? Just curious, I don't pay too much attention to it.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Whiteshepherds said:


> A few people mentioned this. Why does this description send up a red flag? What comes to mind when you see this? Just curious, I don't pay too much attention to it.


I know some of the time people use 'old fashioned' to mean HUGE! Though since the original GSD's were really pretty small ......... that never made sense to me either.

Since the GSD is not supposed to be a 100 + pound dog, if a breeder is purposely breed that and also saying that is what a 'real' GSD is supposed to be, it is mis-leading.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Whiteshepherds said:


> A few people mentioned this. Why does this description send up a red flag? What comes to mind when you see this? Just curious, I don't pay too much attention to it.


 
Because 99% of the time people using that terminology are breeding out of standard dogs for pets. Dogs who are oversized, often long coated, with soft, low drive, laid back temperaments and marketing them to the general pet owning public as something rare and exclusive and indicating such giant, soft couch potatoes are the way a GSD used to be and is supposed to be.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Konotashi said:


> First red flag for me was "puppies will be picked out in order of deposits." I don't think any breeder should put a family with a pup based on when the deposit was received - the pup should go with the family that matches its personality best.


Indeed this is very common practice, nothing wrong with it. We do it this way too. Once Dennis has separated the pet vs. the working dogs. If lets say we have 5 working puppies, who ever put the deposit first gets the first pick, of course Dennis still matches the right puppy to the right owner.

I do see that with their last litter, they sold 2 puppies to the same family, a male and a female. :nono:


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What I think when I read "old fashioned" depends on the context. In this context, it generally refers to an overweight, oversized dog with heavy bone and often poor color and pigment.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

JakodaCD OA said:


> you can have hips prelimed, (if they are bad they ain't gonna get better),,


 Yes, they can.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Chris Wild said:


> Because 99% of the time people using that terminology are breeding out of standard dogs for pets. Dogs who are oversized, often long coated, with soft, low drive, laid back temperaments and marketing them to the general pet owning public as something rare and exclusive and indicating such giant, soft couch potatoes are the way a GSD used to be and is supposed to be.


Yep - couldn't have said it better myself. Definitely a pet peeve of mine when i see that on a breeders website.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Chris, regarding the line "old fashioned", it turns me off asap


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I read that puppies are placed in order of deposit as a family gets to choose their own pup whenever they pay the deposit - my bad. 

And when I see 'old fashioned' I also think of the oversized, overweight, long coated dogs. To me, it's not only misleading, but shows that the breeder doesn't have in-depth knowledge of the breed, given that just seeing pictures of REAL 'old' GSDs are nothing like what many breeders claim to be 'old fashioned.'


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

So, I had to go back and see the _old fashioned shepherds_. She only uses the term once and that's for Lexi. Maybe she refers to her that way because she carries for white? I didn't see any really large dogs or anything that led me to believe she's breeding larger than standard. Hard to tell in the pictures.

*Alexis von Longworth aka Lexi*
Lexi is our Old Fashioned American German Shepherd. She is black and silver. Her pedigree is filled with a variety of colors so she will be able to produce black and creams, black and tans and even white shepherds.

Blank


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I didn't look at this particular breeder's website to see how the term was being used. I simply responded to your general question as to why the phrasing of "old fashioned" seems to so often get lots of ruffled feathers around here. If that's the only occassion it is used here then it doesn't really apply in this case, and one could reasonably consider the Longworth lines to be "old fashioned American" lines.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> I didn't look at this particular breeder's website to see how the term was being used. I simply responded to your general question as to why the phrasing of "old fashioned" seems to so often get lots of ruffled feathers around here.


And I appreciated the answer, I see the description used often and I'm never sure what they mean by it. I guess everyone means something different. 

Once I looked at the site I wanted to make sure I came back on and noted what I saw. Didn't want my question or the answers to reflect back on the breeder in a negative way if they are a decent breeder.


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## PoisonxxIvy (Mar 29, 2011)

*I have experience with this breeder!*

I first purchased a male German Shepherd puppy from DLS in March 2010 and I can't even begin to say enough great things about my dog as well as the breeder. I had a female GS from a another breeder that was a year old at the time I contacted DLS for a male. My female was $250.00 and was born on a ranch she had no papers the guy who bred them used his Shepherds as working ranch dogs. I just wanted a pet quality dog so no papers wasn't an issue for me. It wasn't until I got my male from DLS that I realized how huge of a difference good breeding makes. Now don't get me wrong I love and adore my older female however side by side my male outshines her in every area. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't get stopped by dozens of people complimenting me on how gorgeous he is and asking for my breeders information. His temperament is perfect and his hips checked out great so far (waiting until he is 2 to get an OFA on him) my veterinarian told me he was the nicest looking GS she has ever seen in her office and she has owned her practice for 20 years. 

I recently inquired about showing him and was told he is show quality. Now I will say on that note that DLS DOES NOT guarantee that any of their dogs will be show quality nor are they working quality. DLS is very upfront about breeding dogs that are good quality and will work out perfectly as PETS. I personally also never saw any problem with them letting you pick your puppy in the order of the deposit I think that is very fair. DLS is a family breeder they have never claimed to be the best of the best it's pretty simple there are tons of breeders out there and you as the customer have the choice of who to buy from, go look at the websites and if you see something you don't like then don't buy a dog from them. I personally have no complaints I even purchased sisters from them in October and they are doing great! Just as beautiful as the male I got and not a problem so far.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

So the breeder let you take two pups together?


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## PoisonxxIvy (Mar 29, 2011)

Is it possible that she just used the term "old fashioned" to describe the coloring of the dog and not the stature? I could be totally off here I am in no way a big time breeder but that was the impression I got when I visited the site because the dog was the typical German Shepherd coloring I was used to.


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## PoisonxxIvy (Mar 29, 2011)

Yes she did but that was only because I already had one from her and she has visited him on a regular basis and see's how good we care for him. I own a house on half an acre and I am also a dog trainer and groomer I have been working with dogs for 15 years now so I am experienced with them. I had previously invited the breeder in to my home to see where the dogs would be living and to interview us and determine if she was comfortable placing two at once.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

What are you doing as far as training with them all? Do you do any activities/sportwork? Three young dogs must keep you very busy! Can you post some pics of your pack?


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Long Worth Kennel produced some of the "best", as recognized by the AKC, German shepherds in the 40s and 50s. Often their dogs were over the standard in height and weight. They were not 130 pound couch potato dogs but big dogs nonetheless. Their bloodlines can be traced back to German dogs that were composed of a large percent of Swabian dogs - i.e. bigger dogs with less drive and slow to anger, slow to bite. Fortunately, a few breeders still have these type dogs around. The correlation between size and couch potato is not 100%. To assume that every German shepherd that is slow to anger, slow to bite, and slow to excite is a poor example of a "proper" German shepherd exposes ones lack of knowledge about this breed. To assume that every German shepherd dog MUST exhibit high drive and strong bites is not why this breed was created.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

I believe I read that someone said they have a 2 year guarantee?

I read this off the website...
With hips and elbows, I guarantee up to 3 years of age at which time, if there is *dysplasia* you may get a refund or a new puppy.







Did they change it??


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## PoisonxxIvy (Mar 29, 2011)

I do Schutzhund training as far as the obedience goes I don't do bite work, tracking or agility. I take my dogs to the beach 4 days a week to run and I walk them nightly after work we also take them everywhere with us that allows dogs like Lowes ad Home Depot or any outside events just to make sure they are well socialized.


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## PoisonxxIvy (Mar 29, 2011)

Oh sorry I am new to this site and forgot to ask you how do I upload a picture of my dogs?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Upload pics to a photobucket acct and then copy the IMG code box to your post. You do have to resize to 600x800 before posting.


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## PoisonxxIvy (Mar 29, 2011)

He is 7 months old here I'm a bad mom and don't have any recent ones uploaded to my laptop I am hardly ever on it but will try to put some up soon.


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## PoisonxxIvy (Mar 29, 2011)

My girls at 9 weeks.


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## PoisonxxIvy (Mar 29, 2011)

One of the girls at 4 months. They are around 7 months now.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

very cute puppies and nice looking girl,,congrats and good luck with them


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

One of the all-time greats in the German shepherd breed: Vol of Long Worth


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Old American Bloodline via Long Worth


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Ok, so I don't know anything about breeding dogs (only familiar with livestock) so this is just a genuinely curious question not meant to offend anyone. 

It says on this Page: Testimonials
That a breeding took place June 12th 2010 between Cinnamon and Mikey

Then on this Page: Resources 
That Mikey was born 6/15/2009. 
So that would make him just under at year when he was bred right? Is that normal? I would think you'd want to wait until they were at least two?? 

Like I said, not meant to offend, just curious as to whether or not that's normal.

http://www.desertlakeshepherds.com/testimonials.html


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Ok, so I don't know anything about breeding dogs (only familiar with livestock) so this is just a genuinely curious question not meant to offend anyone.
> 
> It says on this Page: Testimonials
> That a breeding took place June 12th 2010 between Cinnamon and Mikey
> ...


You are supposed to wait until they are at least 2 years old and OFA'd.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> You are supposed to wait until they are at least 2 years old and OFA'd.


That's what I figured. I thought Mikey looked a little young on the first page that's the only reason I even looked up his age. It seemed a little fishy, but I'm not a breeder (nor do I ever want to be a breeder) so I thought I'd ask.


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## Butterfly (Mar 3, 2011)

What I don't like is that they're breeding the same female to lots of males, over and over. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but just doesn't seem ethical.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Recently, it has become politically correct to wait until a dog is two and OFA'd. OFA is the hip registry of choice and NOW requires a dog to be two before issuing a certification. However pre-lims can be done prior to two years. Other registries still certify at 1 year. 

Many of us prefer the dog to be two because he is full grown at that point and you have a better idea of the temperament. A dog need not be interrupted in showing or trialing due to breeding as a bitch can be. But there are so many accomplished males out there, mature, known producers, that it simply does not usually make sense to choose a youngster, unless it is your own, and you are trying to get a good idea of what he produces. Evenso, a dog can produce for years, and waiting until the dog is mature before breeding tends to make sense to most breeders. 

It does not hurt the dog to be bred young. For females, I think it is far more important that she is physically and mentally mature, both for her physically and mentally, and for the pups, as the dog provides sperm and then is done with his part, the bitch must not only whelp the litter, but also imprint her temperament on them while raising the litter. Not knowing what her mature temperament is, and putting her through the stress of raising a litter, may not be such a great idea.

There is no law or rule that one must wait until two, so the "you are supposed to wait until two" is not necessarily correct. Many breeders have adopted this opinion though.

As for breeding the same bitch to many dogs. There is no problem with that whatsoever, so long as you are not having litters every six months. Breeding back to back is ok, but breeding back to back indefinitely is usually frowned upon. According to a reproductive specialist, Dr. Robert Hutchison, it is best to breed back to back for a few litters, 2, 3, 4 and then spay. It is not good to wait too long in between litters, or to wait too long before the first litter. But the females body, her uterine horns go through as much damage when she is not pregnant as they do when she is, due to the progesterone testing. 

As for multiple males. Well, if you get an awesome litter out of a dog and bitch combination, it may make sense to repeat the breeding. Otherwise, remember that we are trying to maintain the breed and produce the best dogs we can, so using different males with a female can actually be a good thing, as you will be finding the best combination for your bitch. Breedings on paper, through looking at the pedigrees, and assessing the dog and bitch, paying attention to the strengths and weaknesses of each, only gets you so far. It can look awesome on paper and be disappointing. Or, there may be several males that look to be good choices for your female. If all the males are owned by the breeder, one has to wonder whether they are breeding for convenience rather than best match.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

:thumbup:


Doc said:


> Long Worth Kennel produced some of the "best", as recognized by the AKC, German shepherds in the 40s and 50s. Often their dogs were over the standard in height and weight. They were not 130 pound couch potato dogs but big dogs nonetheless. Their bloodlines can be traced back to German dogs that were composed of a large percent of Swabian dogs - i.e. bigger dogs with less drive and slow to anger, slow to bite. Fortunately, a few breeders still have these type dogs around. The correlation between size and couch potato is not 100%. To assume that every German shepherd that is slow to anger, slow to bite, and slow to excite is a poor example of a "proper" German shepherd exposes ones lack of knowledge about this breed. To assume that every German shepherd dog MUST exhibit high drive and strong bites is not why this breed was created.


:thumbup:


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

Doc said:


> One of the all-time greats in the German shepherd breed: Vol of Long Worth


my male oso 's sire was a longworth line.They breed very true to type and are very distinctive in looks and capability.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

tierra nuestra said:


> my male oso 's sire was a longworth line.They breed very true to type and are very distinctive in looks and capability.


quote-" find it rather interesting as I research the pedigrees of all the Grand Victors and Grand Victrixes from the past five years (2003 – 2007), 
they ALL have a common characteristic—there is a Longworth dog in their pedigree. Brackett himself bred the 1950 Grand Victrix CH. 
Yola of Longworth and the 1951 Grand Victor Ch. Jory of Edgetowne was sired by Brackett’s Ch. Vol of Longworth. The Dual (1966 & 
1968) Grand Victor Ch. Yocalla’s Mike was linebred 5-4 on the 1951 Grand Victor Ch. Jory of Edgetowne. I would encourage readers to 
do a thorough research of the pedigrees of your own German Shepherds. You may have to go back 8 to 10 or more generations; 
however, there is a strong likelihood that you will find a Longworth German Shepherd in your pedigrees"


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

selzer said:


> recently, it has become politically correct to wait until a dog is two and ofa'd. Ofa is the hip registry of choice and now requires a dog to be two before issuing a certification. However pre-lims can be done prior to two years. Other registries still certify at 1 year.
> 
> Many of us prefer the dog to be two because he is full grown at that point and you have a better idea of the temperament. A dog need not be interrupted in showing or trialing due to breeding as a bitch can be. But there are so many accomplished males out there, mature, known producers, that it simply does not usually make sense to choose a youngster, unless it is your own, and you are trying to get a good idea of what he produces. Evenso, a dog can produce for years, and waiting until the dog is mature before breeding tends to make sense to most breeders.
> 
> ...


sound advice


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I concur!!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

There were many good bredders in the U.S. in the 50's and early 60's. These dogs could work and did work from seeing eye to herding to police. The difference is that people tried to put the two best dogs together that compensated for the other's weakness. Today people breed to maintain a type.


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