# Help! Cant get my sick dog to eat or take her meds



## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

My girl just got diagnosed with Liver issues yesterday. We are still unsure what is going on but she had a fever, and was put on Clavamox and Denamarin

She always has a hard time taking pills. I can usually get it down with cheese but the vet said to not to give her any treats. 

She wont eat dinner and I need to give her both pills tonight 

I am going to call the vet if I cant get her to in a bit. She still has a fever as well. I dont know what to do and I am already $600 in just on her and I cant even get her to take her meds. (my other boy is EPI and we are having issues getting him stable)

I know the denamarin says not to crush or break but what about clavamox?

Anyone have this issue? 
Syringe and water?


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

What does she normally eat for dinner? I've used canned tripe to get my dog to eat. I think that it's the Clavamoxx that she really hates and tripe seems to mask the smell and taste.

Sometimes I've had to resort to throwing the pills as far down her throat as I can and holding her muzzle. She's a pit though and easier to manhandle than Havoc.

You can get an antibiotic shot. I don't recall how much it was but it saved her life when she had her last episode. She has lymphoma, possible seizures, and some weird foot thing.


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

I got her to take it with a tiny bit of chicken! Finally. I will pick up some more tonight. She doesnt seem to be wanting to eat the ID.

Also, it has been more then 24 hours on meds and she is still running a fever. Today it has been between between 103 and 104. Yesterday she had an injection of Penicillin and sub Q fluids then today she had the morning dose of Clavamox. How long do I let it go before I know it isnt going away with the mends she is on? 

I will post the blood test results, I will ask them to fax it to me. Maybe someone will have advice.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Usually it takes about 48 hours for antibiotics to start taking effect, so I would expect her temperature to go back down to normal by then. If it hasn't, get back to the vet.

If the chicken works to get her to take her pill, use that. I think when the vet said "no treats", he didn't mean you can't give her a little something to help her pills go down.

If she won't take her pills even with the chicken, you may have to pill her by opening up her mouth wide, and sticking the pill as far back into her throat as you can get it. Then close her mouth and massage her throat. Some dogs take this method easily and some don't. It works best if you have the dog sit, than stand behind and over her with her body between your legs, and point her nose upward while you open the mouth. Good luck, hope she feels better soon.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Call the vet in the morning with an update on the temp. 

Why no treats? 

Clavamox I believe not only can you grind and dissolve, but they sell it in liquid form don't they? 

The Denamarin is a real issue because it is not supposed to be broken and it's HUGE. If she won't take it, and needs it for her liver, then ask if you can just give her a good quality liquid milk thistle that is not mixed in alcohol. Denamarin is a great pill, but I have tried to get it into a cat (BAH!) and dog who was not eating at the time and it was not easy. Cream cheese helps but..it's rough. 

Right now I am giving my one dog the Vetriscience liver chews and she really likes those. They stink, but must be in a good way. I do not know if it is as good as the Nutramax product: Vetri-Liver Canine Bite-Sized Chews (60 Chews) I got it when it was on sale for $9.99.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Yes, do post the blood results. There are some types of infections that would need a different abx. Was a Snap test run, to check for tick disease? I think that CA has some versions that may not show up on tests though.

There is no reason why you can't give te clavamox with the cheese that I know of. I used to dip it in yogurt. Inactivates the yogurt (kills the good bacteria), but I wasn't worried about that.

My favorite liver support is Country Life's "Liver Support Factors". I think that there are some Milk thistle tinctures that are alcohol free, though I don't know what they taste like.

I don't get the "no treat" thing either, unless the vet is concerned about the liver issues and isn't clear on the recommendations.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I've always had a lot of success stuffing pills down their throats!


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks guys for the info.

I have tried the stuffing the pill down the throat and holding her mouth shut etc etc and she will sit there and push the pill outwards with her tongue even with her mouth shut. She does not take well to anything being forced on her.

I think she said the no treat thing because we are not sure what is going on with her liver. I honestly didnt even think of doing chicken. I just panicked I guess and posted here right away. She has always been fine and then all of a sudden we are having issues with her on top of Eli my EPI/SIBO boy : (

We do know that it is enlarged and one of the values was really high. On the xray you could see no definition of the liver which she explained isnt good. The spleen was enlarged as well but it had definition so she wasnt that concerned. She pointed out to me that her organs also seem misplaced a bit. And said it could be from the swelling, the gallbladder pushing on everything else or a mass hiding in there somewhere. That is what I understood. It was a lot to take in and a lot of it could be this or that. I will post the results from the test tomorrow. I was going to start a thread on that but I was more concerned about getting the pills down. I will take her temp tomorrow morning and let my vet know. 

We did a GHP blood test (general health panel), xrays, and a quick ultrasound. My vet said she is not an ultra sound expert, but did it free of charge just to see if she saw a mass. No mass that she could see

Lisa, would this broad spectrum blood test have caught any of these issues? Would it have told us about heartworm or tick problems ?

We are resting her values in 2 weeks, then going from there. (as long as she doesnt decline in between then, she is 10)

There was an option to do an ultrasound with an internal specialist if we are still not sure what is going on after we retest her values. 

Should I be concerned about her being around my EPI dog? The vet didnt mention anything, she has been vaccinated her entire life so I wouldnt think it was anything contagious (although who knows if that is what contributed to this) She has also been on Advantix for years, but not on Heartworm. She isnt outside that much and when we walk her it is just on sidewalk. I actually wanted to get her on Heartworm but then all this came about. 

I am just so confused not knowing what is wrong. The internist apt with ultrasound is $500, which I will do if we cant figure this all out. I wish it was easy!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

LovemyEli said:


> .... The spleen was enlarged as well but it had definition so she wasnt that concerned.


The spleen can sequester red blood cells, and will enlarge in certain types of infections. 




> We did a GHP blood test (general health panel)....would this broad spectrum blood test have caught any of these issues? Would it have told us about heartworm or tick problems ?...


It would not catch a tick disease specifically. However, there are certain patterns in the results that one might recognize, so the CBC portion might hold a clue. It won't say anything about heartworm.

In California, tick disease is often not on the radar, so it can be a sneaky infection, if it's there. Also depends on which part of CA you are in. Some vets won't even stock the preliminary test for it. Has there been exposure to ticks then?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

What about lepto? That's another weird thing. And just something to rule out if you are able to (test takes a bit to get back). 

I would want a radiologist to do an ultrasound. I honestly do not know how anyone reads those things, but also know of a local dog who was opened up based on the regular vet's reading of the u/s - for no reason once they got in there.  I think it was nice of your vet to take a look but would want someone else to do so based on the x-ray. 

The SNAP 4 will check for heartworm and some tick stuff - be a good idea to do just for the HW but you would maybe be seeing heart and lung stuff as well. 

For the forcing the pill, if you have to, tilt her head back, get the pill as far back as you can, close the snout and hold it with one hand, and with the other stroke her throat to help the pill go down AND (while you are playing the tambourine with your feet) blow into her nostrils. I am not telling you this just so you will have a laugh (we hope you can laugh) but because of something I can't remember about the blowing into the nose. I honestly did that with my dog last January, with that stinking Denamarin! And that combo worked.

ETA - the blowing into nostrils thing - one quick burst of breath and you do not have to do mouth to mouth. http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/cliented/dog_meds.aspx HEY! There it is.


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

LisaT said:


> It would not catch a tick disease specifically. However, there are certain patterns in the results that one might recognize, so the CBC portion might hold a clue. It won't say anything about heartworm.
> 
> In California, tick disease is often not on the radar, so it can be a sneaky infection, if it's there. Also depends on which part of CA you are in. Some vets won't even stock the preliminary test for it. Has there been exposure to ticks then?


Would the xrays have shown Heartworm? Dont they do bloodtests to test for that? I am in Southern California. I have found ticks on her twice, but this was years and years ago. I'd say at least 4 years ago when I used to take her down to the riverbed. Cant do anything crazy anymore, she has arthritis in both knees.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Ooops, yes, xrays...they will show HW, but I don't think they show early HW. Someone else should know that - I just know a bit.

Well, with the ticks, there is potential there. Certain tick diseases can take years to manifest into something measurable. 

We'll see what the blood tests reveal. With any luck, this is something that the Clavamox will help and you'll be done with it!


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

She still has a temp 

I was lucky to get her 2 pills down and have her eat some boiled chicken. It took a good while with the whole family trying to hand feed her. She will not touch the ID

I am so worried about her, if she still has a temp tomorrow morning I am going to schedule the ultra sound with the specialist for ASAP. I cant watch her like this. It just seems that both my dogs are having health issues at the same time that I have been working 12 hours days and cant be there for them as much as I would like to, my family helps me a ton.

I am so scared, and I hope she is not giving up on me. I really hope I am just over reacting and tomorrow morning she is on the right track.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

If you just started the abx, it will take awhile for the temp to go down, though I don't know how long before it breaks - Freestep says about 2 days, so too soon tonight probably. Is the temp increasing?

I wouldn't touch the ID either....hard to do when you are working, but if you can swing some homecooked food, that would be great.


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

It is staying at about 104. Has not gone higher then what it originally was at the vet. Tomorrow afternoon will be 48 hours. So we will see then

I did make chicken and rice for her tonight. I will keep her on that as long as I need to. Will also try some eggs and oatmeal. She usually likes eggs

Hoping for good results in the AM!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

It's very hard for the liver to repair itself when it's on kibble. Dodds has a liver diet out there (think it's whitefish?), but any good homecooked diet will be more liver friendly, with a better quality protein for rebuilding. 

Hope she responds quickly!


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

Still had a fever this morning. She is currently being hospitalized for the night with IV fluids to try and bring the fever down naturally rather then using non steroids. They also added Baytril to the equation.

She is seeing the specialist tomorrow for a possible biopsy of the liver.

Wish me luck!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

If it were me, I'd go after the infection without the biopsy, but maybe it will give you something definitive to go after. If you know what you are after, so much easy to eliminate it!

Best of luck, these mystery infections are tricky. No copies of the blood tests?


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## the_butcher (Sep 28, 2011)

I dont know if this has been suggested but we put a little peanut butter on Butch's antibiotics. He loved it!


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## LovemyEli (Dec 28, 2010)

LisaT said:


> If it were me, I'd go after the infection without the biopsy, but maybe it will give you something definitive to go after. If you know what you are after, so much easy to eliminate it!
> 
> Best of luck, these mystery infections are tricky. No copies of the blood tests?


If the specialist is able to find anything out just by the ultrasound then we wont do I biopsy. Are those invasive? Haven't had time to research it

I keep forgetting to ask for the test results... I know that the liver enzymes were 9 times the normal amount and I think the ALT was slightly elevated.

I will try to remember to ask when they update me on how she did last night, if I can remember so many questions come to mind first. haha 

I cant wait to hear from them!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

The u/s is not invasive, and hopefully will give info. Guess I didn't realize the liver enzymes were so high. Seems to me that if there are strong indications for infection, then you *may* have your cause, though I would want the u/s. 

If jean is around, she might have more insight - she has "liver experience".


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Ooooh - I will try to come back later - I am stupid tired (as in I am so tired I feel like I am unable to comprehend things) but I think I am reading a liver biopsy - IF IF IF you can hold off on that, I would do it. 

There are still bile acids tests and the ultrasound that help to give information on the liver without doing the biopsy. 

I BELIEVE that you need to do a clotting factor test before you do a liver biopsy and that if the clotting factors are too (low/high-I hope I can nap and come back a little brighter here) they need to have things ready for a possible transfusion. 

The black/tan dog in my avatar, I was considering a biopsy (high values, no symptoms) but before we went forward my vet sent the clotting factors out and he was not a candidate. Much longer story to that! 

Pretty good info quickly: Liver Biopsy for Dogs - VetInfo

I hope the U/S shows something. 

Coming back later about acute or chronic liver disease.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I am going to PM you a thread from my second liver dog. 

I am asking about it being acute - rescue had a dog - young dog - who had acute liver failure, was yellow even and has recovered. 

I would really caution about the biopsy - like the article said - if it's a needle one, you may miss any info - if you open her and there's no reason to...that's bad because she's weak already. 

So - I would redo bloodwork. 
Get an x-ray - chest as well as GI area - not to be depressing but if she has anything going on lung wise, then you can stop and just do palliative care
Ask about bile acids. 
Get the ultrasound. 
When I took my dog to Cornell (second liver dog) they were considering doing a CAT scan for more information but thankfully they did not (cha-ching). 
Get that clotting factor information. 

My thinking is that the ultrasound will show something and if it does not I would want to know what the biopsy will do - are they going to open her up - etc. Do you have time to make a decision? If she's super urgent, failing, etc. what will the biopsy do? 

I don't know - I don't like to tell people what to do or not do because I don't know the situation and I am not a doctor of any kind (unless there is one for chocolate?) but like to feel like I have time to see if anything is working before someone starts cutting. 

I feel bad - it's so confusing and you just want to help her.


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