# Leash Frustration



## H15A5H1 (Dec 14, 2009)

Desperately looking for suggestions on fixing Otto's leash frustration on walks.

Otto is a VERY friendly dog and loves playing with other dogs. We take him to the dog parks regularly, and he gets along with every dog just fine. If the other dog provokes him at the dog park, Otto just walks away without retaliating. We can even walk him on leash around the outside of the dog park AND meet other dogs without him freaking out. It's like he knows its a dog park so he will eventually be able to meet the other dogs. And also when we are in Petstores and he sees another dog, he's fine. 

However, when he is on leash on walks around local streets.. he exhibits strong leash frustration when he sees another dog. Because this time, he knows he will not be able to meet the other dog when he is on lead. He wants to get to the other dog SO BAD that he doesn't know what to do with himself. He will try to run towards them, growl, or bark. Before he would be ok if the other dog doesn't acknowledge him. But now it has gotten to the point where it doesn't even matter what the other dog is doing. He's actually ok if he can't see the dog. For example if the other dog is barking at him behind a fence, he just starts whimpering a little. However, regardless he is still getting frustrated.

We've tried redirecting his attention with treats, but when he gets into that "locked-in" mode he totally disregards it. We've tried changing directions right when we see a change in his posture, but with no success on future occurences. I've tried putting him in a sit, and a down stay until the other dog passes by, but that seems to just escalate his frustration.

I'm running out of options here. Really need everyone's input on this. Thanks!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Great DVD that deals directly with this!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

how long has Otto been acting this way??

find a trainer.


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

I have had good luck turning left IN-to my dog, then going the other direction. If you walk through the dog there is no way they will ignore you-- then, if they continue to look back and fixate, give leash corrections as you continue to walk the other way away from the dog until your dog looks away from the dog and walks with you. No need to praise when he does come with you, that will not add to the calmness of the situation but could degrade it.

If you are using a flat collar, there will be no consequence of leash pops so I would recommend a prong collar or a choker collar if the choker is properly up high on the neck. You may want to use the "leave it" command with these leash pops, although in my experience, the less noise you make when the dog is fixating, the better.

You can make loops in your walking pattern-- first away from the dog, then towards it, doing this "ignore" exercise a few times as the other dog approaches. In my experience this keeps your dog from fixating as long on the other dog.

The tough part can be getting a structured set-up to show your dog how to behave in this environment. If it's random, it could take a long time to teach.


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## dogmama (Nov 17, 2006)

Ucdcrush said:


> If you are using a flat collar, there will be no consequence of leash pops so I would recommend a prong collar or a choker collar if the choker is properly up high on the neck. You may want to use the "leave it" command with these leash pops, although in my experience, the less noise you make when the dog is fixating, the better.


My experience was that prongs & chokes made the problem worse because Zack was actually being overstimulated - the prong/choke collar just added to his stress level. It was explained to me that any compliance I may see from a harsh correction is the dog shutting down - another stress reaction.

The key was getting him to regard other dogs as opportunities to get a treat, "I see a dog, I get a cookie!" The other dog was a cue to focus on me. I had to get the treat in BEFORE he became stimulated and make sure that the stimulation (i.e., other dog) was quite a distance away. Once stimulated, it can take hours for a dog to again reach a calm level.

I would strongly suggest a licensed trainer (APDT) in a reactive dog class. It sounds like this is fairly new behavior, so right NOW would be the perfect time to handle it. Zack had the same problem and I made the mistake of seeing a trainer who used harsh corrections. It really set us back & now I'm having to backtrack & teach Zack how to calm himself. 

Until then - you might investigate a "no-pull harness." The one I use has the leash ring on the chest. It is impossible for Zack to pull me off my feet because it inhibits forward motion - yet it isn't a sudden harsh correction that further got him stimulated.

Here's my disclaimer (e.g., "the fine print" ) - I'm not a behaviorist - just an owner who is working with a certified trainer. These have been my experiences with Zack and may not pertain to other dogs.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree with you dogmomma, after going thru the Control Unleashed book and a class based on it, helped me to manage Onyx's reactivity. The 'look at that' game is effective.


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## H15A5H1 (Dec 14, 2009)

This afternoon I was walking Otto and we came across a Rottie. The Rottie was tied to a tree while the owner participated in some park event by his side. When Otto spotted the Rottie he started lunging forward and growling like expected. I tried doing some change of direction correction with him. Basically every time his posture changes and becomes overly stimulated by the other dog's presence, I change direction and walk the other way. Each time he lunges or growls, the farther I walk. Then I put him in a sit until he calms down a little.. then try again. I think we did this ritual about 15 times. BUT on the last try, he walked by the Rottie but was hesitant to even look at him. Instead, he tried to occupy himself by smelling the grass. After he finished smelling the grass, he looked back up at the Rottie but did not pull or growl. I think we're onto something here!


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## drj (Apr 13, 2010)

I'm glad I found your thread. I have EXCACTLY the same problem as you do. My 19 month german shepherd "Sam" is great at home and dog parks. He goes crazy when he sees another dog on street. I live in New York City and there are tons of dogs on street. It's really frustrating. I tried everything and nothing worked. I know how you feel. I'm even thinking of giving him away. But I couldn't, he is just so lovely. 

Please follow up on your progress. I'll try your approach to see how it works. Fingers crossed. 



H15A5H1 said:


> This afternoon I was walking Otto and we came across a Rottie. The Rottie was tied to a tree while the owner participated in some park event by his side. When Otto spotted the Rottie he started lunging forward and growling like expected. I tried doing some change of direction correction with him. Basically every time his posture changes and becomes overly stimulated by the other dog's presence, I change direction and walk the other way. Each time he lunges or growls, the farther I walk. Then I put him in a sit until he calms down a little.. then try again. I think we did this ritual about 15 times. BUT on the last try, he walked by the Rottie but was hesitant to even look at him. Instead, he tried to occupy himself by smelling the grass. After he finished smelling the grass, he looked back up at the Rottie but did not pull or growl. I think we're onto something here!


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

H15A5H1 said:


> This afternoon I was walking Otto and we came across a Rottie. The Rottie was tied to a tree while the owner participated in some park event by his side. When Otto spotted the Rottie he started lunging forward and growling like expected. I tried doing some change of direction correction with him. Basically every time his posture changes and becomes overly stimulated by the other dog's presence, I change direction and walk the other way. Each time he lunges or growls, the farther I walk. Then I put him in a sit until he calms down a little.. then try again. I think we did this ritual about 15 times. BUT on the last try, he walked by the Rottie but was hesitant to even look at him. Instead, he tried to occupy himself by smelling the grass. After he finished smelling the grass, he looked back up at the Rottie but did not pull or growl. I think we're onto something here!


That is great news! What kind of collar were you using? The person above mentioned chokers and prongs making things worse-- but I think it is more likely to make things worse if you're right next to the dog, yanking on the leash without moving anywhere. If you haven't tried it yet, you might want to try a choker collar with the change of direction, which will give a sort of correction when he hits the end of the leash and will make him want to stay with you more than fixate on the other dog.

I have used a similar "go the other way" approach with my dog Tuki who used to fixate and charge on squirrels, cats, geese etc. After letting her charge after them, then turning the other way and giving her a good yank at the moment she reaches the end of the leash, she is sure to always know where I am now. And she can still look at the critters and enjoy them, she just knows it's a bad idea to charge them now. Once we got past the "no charging" stage, I started using lighter leash pops and a "leave it" command as we walk by something -- without going the other direction this time. It just gets her to stop fixating on the critter.


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## H15A5H1 (Dec 14, 2009)

Ucdcrush said:


> That is great news! What kind of collar were you using? The person above mentioned chokers and prongs making things worse-- but I think it is more likely to make things worse if you're right next to the dog, yanking on the leash without moving anywhere. If you haven't tried it yet, you might want to try a choker collar with the change of direction, which will give a sort of correction when he hits the end of the leash and will make him want to stay with you more than fixate on the other dog.
> 
> I have used a similar "go the other way" approach with my dog Tuki who used to fixate and charge on squirrels, cats, geese etc. After letting her charge after them, then turning the other way and giving her a good yank at the moment she reaches the end of the leash, she is sure to always know where I am now. And she can still look at the critters and enjoy them, she just knows it's a bad idea to charge them now. Once we got past the "no charging" stage, I started using lighter leash pops and a "leave it" command as we walk by something -- without going the other direction this time. It just gets her to stop fixating on the critter.



I was using a flat collar. I've tried the same method with the choke collar with no real improvements over the flat collar. I think for Otto, getting farther away from the dog is punishment enough. I'm basically trying to teach him that the more he freaks out, the farther we go away from the dog. The more well behaved he is, the closer we get. I would also like to note that I approach the dogs with a loose leash. If your dog can sense tightness on the leash, you are basically giving him a heads up that something exciting is coming up!; instead of something that should be ignored or handled calmy. I think Otto just needs more of exposure and practice with keeping his cool when he sees another dog. Today we saw a dog behind a fence and Otto tried to walk forward, but then he started turning around back to me. He was still whining and making noises, but its better than going apesh#t for no reason.


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## H15A5H1 (Dec 14, 2009)

Well, just to update.

Apparently Otto still has this problem.. I'm starting to wonder if there is any underlying problem for his behavior. I'm kind of running out of options. I am completely stumped as to why he is reactive like this. Even at the dog park he doesnt go ballstic when he sees another dog. He doesn't even play and romp with every dog. I know he's not aggressive too, because this one rare time he actually was able to pull me close enough to the other dog that they just ended up smelling each other. I'm completely stumped why he flips out at the sight of another dog on lead


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

His age plays a huge part in this, once he mentally matures he'll do better, in the meantime just keep on with the training and read the book Control Unleashed, put into practice the exercises lined out in the book! Make _you _more interesting than anything else in his world( I know hard to do sometimes but it is very important down the road, makes everything so much easier when training)


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## kschron (Feb 2, 2009)

Thanks for all the info on this thread. I'm glad to hear I am not the only one with this problem. 

My 13-month old, Maylee, has been acting like this since Sept. Just like Otto, she's great at the dog park but on-leash she acts crazy when she sees another dog. I worked w a trainer for awhile and can now get her to sit (on the other side of the street) and try to focus on me while the dog passes. It doesn't work all the time though, so it can be frusturating.

While we have made some progress w her on-leash behavior, she has starting going crazy in the car when we pass another dog. Especially if we are stopped at a light or in traffic. Anyone else have this issue? Any suggestions?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> After he finished smelling the grass, he looked back up at the Rottie but did not pull or growl. I think we're onto something here!


Glad to hear things are looking up. Did you get a chance to go watch the video I put up by Turid Rugaas? The info is so valuable and useful... to the extent I'm sure you noticed the sniffing is a 'calming' signal, just like she talks about on her website.

Turid Rugaas - Calming Signals Community


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## drj (Apr 13, 2010)

The reason the dogs act this way is that they are social animals and they want to meet every dog. While on leash, they are prohibited from meeting other dogs. Some dogs have stronger wills and they will fight to try to meet other dogs. 

German shepherds look intimidating and other dog owners typically don't want to meet german shepherds. This makes it worse because our dogs think we took the fun away. This behavior gradually get worse as they exit puppyhood. 

I myself am also struggling with this issue. Unfortunately, I think the only way to solve this is to let my dog to meet as many dogs as possible on street. However, this is hard to do without cooporation of other dog owners. 

Now, I try to live with the problem and try not to think too much about it. I'm hoping someone on this forum can come up with an effective approach.


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## GSD MOM (Apr 21, 2010)

I would keep trying to redirect. I think you have the right idea on what needs to happen (breaking the connection between Otto and the other dog). Maybe try a treat that he has never had before and only gets when his attention is redirected from the "other dog" to you. My 110 pound GSD has a problem with one of the dogs on my block. I have found that when we get close to this house Ace keeps looking back at me to see if I have his treat. Once we get past that house and he doesn't dislocate my shoulder by pulling me to the fence line of the other dogs home, I give him his treat. Maybe it's not the best solution but it works. Good luck!!


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## drj (Apr 13, 2010)

I've tried to use treats many times. I'm sure that H15A5H1 tried it too. It doesn't work because our cases are so severe. When my dog gets fixiated on another dog, he doesn't even smell the treat. 



GSD MOM said:


> I would keep trying to redirect. I think you have the right idea on what needs to happen (breaking the connection between Otto and the other dog). Maybe try a treat that he has never had before and only gets when his attention is redirected from the "other dog" to you. My 110 pound GSD has a problem with one of the dogs on my block. I have found that when we get close to this house Ace keeps looking back at me to see if I have his treat. Once we get past that house and he doesn't dislocate my shoulder by pulling me to the fence line of the other dogs home, I give him his treat. Maybe it's not the best solution but it works. Good luck!!


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## dogmama (Nov 17, 2006)

H15A5H1 said:


> This afternoon I was walking Otto and we came across a Rottie. The Rottie was tied to a tree while the owner participated in some park event by his side. When Otto spotted the Rottie he started lunging forward and growling like expected. I tried doing some change of direction correction with him. Basically every time his posture changes and becomes overly stimulated by the other dog's presence, I change direction and walk the other way. Each time he lunges or growls, the farther I walk. Then I put him in a sit until he calms down a little.. then try again. I think we did this ritual about 15 times. BUT on the last try, he walked by the Rottie but was hesitant to even look at him. Instead, he tried to occupy himself by smelling the grass. After he finished smelling the grass, he looked back up at the Rottie but did not pull or growl. I think we're onto something here!



I agree with GSD Mom - redirect, redirect redirect! My strong suggestion is to get that cookie to Otto before he even knows there is a dog around. Make a VERY WIDE berth and keep feeding. He will eventually learn that "dogs = cookies - hey - dogs are good! Mom! I saw a dog, where's my cookie?!" In the beginning, I didn't wait for any stress reaction. I knew, from experience, that there WOULD be a reaction, I didn't need to test it :crazy:. I also assumed that Zack probably knew there was a dog in the vicinity because their sense of smell & hearing is so much more acute than ours.

Dogs on leads can act very differently because they know they're tethered to you. The solution is still redirecting. Eventually they learn to look at you when they see a dog. It takes time, especially if your dog is accustomed to being overstimulated but it CAN work. Patience is the key.

As an aside, although Zack is pretty dependable now, I do not allow other dogs to greet him - on or off leash. What's the point? I'm running the risk of a *seemingly* friendly dog turning on him - and now I've make a leap backwards in my training. I never know what's going to set a strange dog off and I don't want to test it. I don't think he has an urge to meet & greet other dogs - especially when Mom has the cheese & hot dogs in her pocket!


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## dogmama (Nov 17, 2006)

drj said:


> I've tried to use treats many times. I'm sure that H15A5H1 tried it too. It doesn't work because our cases are so severe. When my dog gets fixiated on another dog, he doesn't even smell the treat.


You need two things: 
1. A higher valued treat
2. Don't get so close to the other dog at first. Redirect before the reaction starts. Baby steps.


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## vinnyb (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm so glad I found this post! Like Otto, my dog Rocco (13 weeks) behaves differently on a leash. When he sees other dogs, he barks non stop and pulls; its so annoying. I take him to the park almost everyday to let him run and socialize and he gets along fine with the other dogs. Any tips on controlling his non-stop bark? I will try to redirect with treats and hopefully that will work. This is my first GSD and he is so smart and a great dog, but man oh man is he stubborn at times.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

dogmama said:


> My experience was that prongs & chokes made the problem worse because Zack was actually being overstimulated - the prong/choke collar just added to his stress level. It was explained to me that any compliance I may see from a harsh correction is the dog shutting down - another stress reaction.



I had the same experience with Bianca's leash reactivity. She was also great off leash/in the dog park but the problem came when on leash. I had much better results with a Sensation harness and even better with a Halti. We took a positive reinforcement-based reactive dog class and then an outdoor obedience class(where the class met at different outdoor locations each week) and those helped a LOT.


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## drj (Apr 13, 2010)

Thanks a lot for your advice. I did try to use cooked chicken which he craves. It doesn't work when the other dog is walking towards us. I guess I'll have to take baby steps. Again, it's hard to do when the other dog is walking toward me. Sometimes, frustration takes over patience. 




dogmama said:


> You need two things:
> 1. A higher valued treat
> 2. Don't get so close to the other dog at first. Redirect before the reaction starts. Baby steps.


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## drj (Apr 13, 2010)

Since your dog is so young, you actually have an edge. You have to work it out now or it'll be hard to correct later. As I said, the best bet is to meet as many dogs as you can on leash and also try to associate treats with apprearence of other dogs. Don't tight up or tug leash constantly. Try to relax and walk directly towards the other dog. Since he is still a puppy, people should be glad to meet with your dog. Hope you solve this before he gets too big. Remember to relax. 



vinnyb said:


> I'm so glad I found this post! Like Otto, my dog Rocco (13 weeks) behaves differently on a leash. When he sees other dogs, he barks non stop and pulls; its so annoying. I take him to the park almost everyday to let him run and socialize and he gets along fine with the other dogs. Any tips on controlling his non-stop bark? I will try to redirect with treats and hopefully that will work. This is my first GSD and he is so smart and a great dog, but man oh man is he stubborn at times.


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## drj (Apr 13, 2010)

H15A5H1, how is your progress? 

I have had some progress. My dog is improving a lot. I can use cookies to distract him. He still acts up when another dog gets too close, but a lot better. Now that I can get his attention when he sees another dog, I'm more relaxed too. It's positive snowball effect now.

Good luck to you too.


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## H15A5H1 (Dec 14, 2009)

drj said:


> H15A5H1, how is your progress?
> 
> I have had some progress. My dog is improving a lot. I can use cookies to distract him. He still acts up when another dog gets too close, but a lot better. Now that I can get his attention when he sees another dog, I'm more relaxed too. It's positive snowball effect now.
> 
> Good luck to you too.


We have enrolled him in a basic obedience class to help him out with his leash frustration. Otto already knows all the basic obedience commands, but when there is another dog around he tends to break concentration and pretend he doesn't know anything. So far so good. Being around other dogs on leash while participating in the class helps a lot. The 1st class he was very reactive, but at the end of the class he learned to ignore the other dogs. Right now we are going to have our 4th class. I have taught him the "look" command when we pass by other dogs. I basically tell him to look at me and he gets an easy treat. I also try to combo the look command with a sit, down, etc to make it more varied. Even though he still gets fired up and excited when he spots another dog.. we think its getting better. The trick is to catch him before he gets to the high level of stimulation. Hopefully with more training and exposure he will totally ignore the other dogs in the future.


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## DensterNY (Feb 1, 2010)

I've been dealing (quite successfully) with this issue for the last few months so I'll share what I had to do and hopefully it will be of help to someone here. My girl Heidi was/is reactive and I had worked closely with my trainer to minimize her negative reactions with the hope of eventually replacing it with positive and polite responses. We followed a lot of the ideas in Control Unleashed and here is the gist of what we did:

1. Whenever we were out I had to be vigilant to the approach of any other dogs and watch my GSD carefully for any signs that she is anywhere close to reacting. The idea is to ensure that she is below her threshold to prevent any negative reactions which reinforces unwanted behavior.

2. I had to use super-high value treats which for my Heidi is mozzarella cheese cubes and microwaved hot dogs. Keeping my dog below threshold I used the "Look at that" command and rewarded for calm observation. If she began to tense up then I'd use "Leave It" and add distance to keep her from reacting.

3. If you can get the cooperation of another dog owner then use pass-bys with them and in tandem with the "Leave It" command you walk pass each other (at a good distance) until your dog becomes less interested in the other dog and more interested in the treat waiting for them. Use your judgement on this but for us by this time my GSD is not overstimulated by the other dog and we can meet and let them get friendly.

Best of luck and remember to avoid if you can letting your dog have any negative reactions so even if this means you double back to keep distance or take another route it's worth it to allow you to replace negative assocations with positive ones. It's really funny but me and Heidi used to retreat from this 80 year old woman and her 3 lbs. Chiuahua but after months of working on this issue my dog will sit there giving me solid eye contact even as that Chiuahua is walking by barking up a storm.

Good luck everyone.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Denster, that's exactly what I've been doing with Halo, and it really works! I posted a Brag about her last night: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/braggs/136350-17-dogs-0-barks.html

Fortunately, she's only mildly leash reactive and I've been working diligently with her from a young age, but she is noticeably more calm and less excited by other dogs than she was a year ago. 

I love the Look At That! game from Control Unleashed. Keefer is a bit worse than she is, and I used to use parked cars to block his view of dogs across the street, and driveways and side streets to increase distance.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I am trying to be sure Lakoda is "social". In class for the first time a few weeks ago our teacher allowed the pups to "interact". It was great, she has a "NO Contact" rule and since this is a big issue with my older dogs, I thought it was great. However getting Lakoda to focus on me after that was impossible. So we all discussed it and unfortunately I had to agree with the teachers policy, of no contact. She explained her reasoning and basically she wants her dogs to be "tolerant" of other dogs, but to be focused on her, not every dog is trained properly and she repeated "you do not know that dog, you do not know that dog", and that by allowing them to "greet" each other for a minute then taking them away is kind of like taking candy from a baby (something of that sort). I guess meaning that it was more of a tease to let them great and make them leave each other. So Lakoda gets to visit her brother to play but I really think I want to find a "group" of people with pups about the same age and let them become friends. We live in a rural area, most people dont even walk thier dogs around here so I don't often see people on our walks. Dogs are mostly barking at us behind fences. I don't always want to run up to every person I meet to be friendly. How do you know if you let your dog sniff another (strangers) dog, it won't snap his face off?


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Sounds like you are making progress.

I too have a mildly dog reactive dog (only to ones that get in her face, lunge, and barky - and then not all) and am going to a behaviourist.

My homework this week was to drive to a place where there will be dogs, open the back of my car (SUV) and feed her. Close the hatch and drive home. I'm not allowed to bring her out the vehicle.


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## DensterNY (Feb 1, 2010)

You can also go to a dog park and sit outside at a safe distance and let your dog observe dogs coming and going and just give them the occasional "Look at that" command and pop a treat into their mouth.

Also, you would be surprised but I used to explain my situation with Heidi and how I'm working with a trainer to address her reactive behavior and perfect strangers would get interested and work with me. I guess it's the common animal lover thing but after explaining people would do pass-bys with us or hold and not move while I repositioned us.


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