# Sable Color Changes



## chevysmom (Feb 15, 2008)

I know with sables, there is _no way to tell for certain _what color they will turn out to be as adults. But, I am wondering what the possible chances are of Shya getting darker as she grows? The dam is a sable, the sire a blanket black & tan. In her litter, there were 4 sables and 4 solid blacks, no b&t. The previous litter between this sire and this dam also produced sables and blacks, and again, no b&t at all. Shya has the toe-penciling and tar heels...does that determine the coloring as they age? I'm "new" to sables and all these color changes so forgive me if this has been asked and answered a zillion times before







Thought I'd come to the experts and get your opinions and feedback









Here is Shya's mother:










And here is Shya at 3 months old:


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

I honestly don't think she will get any darker. If you go on my homepage and look at the puppy picture I have for the puppy link, and then go to youth female's and look at Askia you will see how much she changed in color, and she also has the black penciling on her toes. You sure have a very pretty girl there


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

If I were to guess, I would say she will get at least a little darker than she is now. Because she looks like she still has "baby dog hair" on her shoulders and neck and face.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

I would agree with Tracy. I think she will possibly be a little darker. I think she will be a little darker than her mother. Do you have any pictures of the previous litters sables?


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDIf I were to guess, I would say she will get at least a little darker than she is now. Because she looks like she still has "baby dog hair" on her shoulders and neck and face.


I agree with Tracy, only because my girl is colored like yours, only not as dark but she got consistently darker for about the first six months. Both her parents are sables- father being much darker than mother.
That's interesting that the litters produced blacks and sables. I'm thinking that means the sable has sable/black genotype and the black/tan has B&T and black genotype 
The sable gene combined with anything would give sable, so the sable parent can't be sable/sable.
Black has to be homozygous- two copies to express as a black pup so one from each parent.
But B&T trumps black, so a pup with one B&T gene and one black would be B&T.
Why has there not been a single B&T pup?








Man, I love this genetic stuff.


I also agree with Kelly that she is a beautiful pupster.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

This is my very favorite sable color change thread...

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=288992&page=1#Post288992

I think she'll get a little bit darker too as she gets older, and I also think she'll be darker than her Mom. I think (based of course on limited experience) that her mask will stay darker too. 

I find though that my dog looks darker or lighter depending on a number of factors too, lighting and how much undercoat he is carrying. When he has more undercoat, the tan seems to show through and he looks lighter. Less undercoat like in the summer or a good brushing to lose the dead undercoat and he looks darker. 

They say sables just keep changing! You might not know the end color until she's much older!


ETA: If the breeder has any pictures of the puppies from the previous litter now that they're older that will give you a good idea of how the colors turn out too!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I also think she will be darker than mom...her face already is, and although hard to tell on the photo - I would bet her chest and belly are darker already. The toe strips and a bit of "frosting" on her canon bones (??? in horses, its' canon bone, same for dogs?) also make me think she will be a good bit darker.

Sables DO change with the seasons and stage of coat vs blown coat. AND they darken with age - Danger was a basic grey sable as a pup and at 30 months was very dark (NOT a black sable, but very good color). 

Yes, the black recessive question puzzles alot of people!!!!!!!!! I have done sable to sable with 2 different females and gotten black. It is obvious that Basha can produce black, as she is from Ufo Guy's Hof, a black. Only in one litter did she not have blacks, but sables and one black and tan. In a litter to a black and tan male, she had sables, black and tan, and blacks. 

My other female had a litter to a sable male (Aly son) whose parents were also sable! BUT my female's sire produced black. She obviously got a black gene from her sire and sable from her dam. Another female - BT - bred to this Aly son produced BT and sable. HER BT daughter from the Aly son produced black, BT and sable to a sable male, which proved she got a black recessive from her sire. Thinking about it, she would have to have gotten a black recessive, as he was sable carrying black. Otherwise she would have been sable! And her black and tan pups would have black recessive as sable is never recessive to anything.

Lee


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