# Failed mating attempt



## Xray (Nov 18, 2013)

Want my dog to pass on his genes and finally found a suitable bitch. She has already had 1 litter, almost 3 years old my dog is almost 2.

Took him there and saw a side of him I have never seen ... Lets just say he was acting more like I expected the girl dog to act. He wads paranoid, jumpy, skittish and just wanted to hide behind me, I couldn't believe it - And this from a dog that has been humping a stuffed animal in the basement since he was 4 months old.
Girl dog was real friendly and flirty, he just tried to act like a dignified geezer, showing more interest in sniffing bushes than sniffing her.
He is fairly socialized, I have taken him to multiple training classes and he has always gotten along well with other dogs. I dunno, there were other dogs in the next yard barking their heads off, and even roosters running around, so he was distracted ,,, But still, he didn't want anything to do with the hot babe right in front of him, and after an hour I deemed it hopeless and left.

So anything to do to encourage mating behavior in a bashful stud ?
I'd like to try my yard, maybe he'd feel more like giving it a go in familiar surroundings. 
Here is a pic of the potential lovebirds, my dog Gubba is the larger one. Ironically, he looks pretty at ease there, wasn't the case most of the time.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

not yet two and you are breeding him?? You obviously haven't had any hip/elbow xray confirmation...what about any other health tests, did you and the bitch owner do brucellosis tests...is she ready(progesterone testing?)
Most stud dogs have the bitch brought to their territory. 
So this female has had a litter previous, did you inquire as to how the pups are turning out health and temperament wise? Probably a good thing he wasn't in the mood....


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Maybe she's not his type.


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## Xray (Nov 18, 2013)

I'm not a pro breeder, else obviously would not have the need to post here.

No tests no, saw one of her pups and is a fine looking dog.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The temperament you describe is not really desirable in a GSD....passing it on is not really responsible breeding.....what exactly is so superior about your male that you want him to pass on his genes? Does he have excellent hips and elbows? He is tested DM clear? Has he passed any kinds of tests that would indicate that he is a superior genetic example???

Lee


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

surprised the bitch owner would want to breed to a dog with no health tests(at the least)...though not surprising.


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## Xray (Nov 18, 2013)

Can you point out where I said that he is a "superior genetic example" ?
Are you a "superior genetic example", and did you breed ?
You know something, just forget it, I've had it with you uppity smart asses here.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

That's the spirit!


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## Xray (Nov 18, 2013)

Yeah keep on going GG, you are almost at post 1,000 in less than a year - In another 6 months maybe you'll catch up with the regulars with input like that !


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## Augustine (Nov 22, 2014)

You said you want to pass on your dog's genes.. why? 

What are you going to do when you have a litter of puppies full of potential health issues and bad temperaments? Are you going to take responsibility for all of these poor puppies that you chose to bring into the world? Without doing ANY kind of PROPER testing first?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You've been a member for almost two years.

Have you read the breeding section of this forum during all that time?

Is this the dog you are trying to breed?


Xray said:


> Vet visit was somewhat inconclusive.
> Said it was not rickets, but some undetermined abnormal growth. To get a more complete diagnosis/prognosis I'd have to go to a vet specializing in orthodontics. She said if the dog was for work, take it back for sure, but just as a pet may be fine. She basically said he may somewhat grow out of it, and may not, here is a letter she wrote [in case I wanted to take him back]:
> "There was a very small umbilical hernia. The front legs are abnormal. There is a bowlegged appearance to them and he is down on his matacarpals. This will impact his gait/front leg stability in the future. It is not clear to what extent".
> 
> ...


http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/370906-new-pup-concerns.html


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

GSDs are very overbred due to popularity, and unfortunately the breed has suffered for it, especially in the pet world. Too many people are breeding dogs with lacking health and flighty temperaments. 

When you have a breed that is so populated, with such a large genepool, there is no reason to breed below average examples. A good breeder seeks to better the breed. Breeding flighty and unhealth tested animals is not doing anyone any good. Not only does it hurt the breed, but sets the potential puppy buyers up for heartbreak if their dogs develop problems. Whether temperament or health oriented.

If you do not understand proper temperament, health, and breeding then it is not an appropriate time to become a breeder. If you truly want to become a breeder than find someone respected and responsible locally that may be willing to take you on as a mentor. You can learn a lot on here as well.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

when humans direct the breeding of random dogs... It means there is no selection of the fittest. It means the breed will slowly dwindle into nothing.

So as the gsd represents something. And in fact all dogs do not go through the natural processes of natural selective breeding. It is our role as representitives of the breed to match dogs that can improve the breed. This includes for the gsd temperament testing. It includes health testing including hips and elbows. 

Those that chose not to breed or do not have the experience help by trying to support the most responsible breeders possible to their knowledge. 

We all play a role. Breeding two random dogs is scorned upon and for good reason.

With all the respect. People often don't see this. And sometimes find it hard to understand. (After all it's not how humans or other wild animals are bred). I strongly recommend not breeding your dog without a mentor or with extreme willingness to only learn, but also to make a strong effort to see and actually see if it is a good candidate to progress the breed.

People who buy from you or you give dogs too, would have chosen an irresponsible breeder. And that means they are probably irresponsible themselves, and likely to repeat similar behaviours with untested untried dogs leading to a devalue of the breeds genetics. At some point the gsd will not be a gsd at all.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

short and sweet -- if that male is the dog discussed in Sunflowers quote -- then DO NOT breed this male .
Ever.


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## WesS (Apr 10, 2015)

carmspack said:


> short and sweet -- if that male is the dog discussed in Sunflowers quote -- then DO NOT breed this male .
> Ever.


I really hope it's not that male... 

He got a Craigslist dog he wanted to give up because maybe it was not healthy? 

Then wants to breed his random dog that may have serious physical issues.. (We don't know if that's the same dog). And pass on its genetics?

Are we living in the twilight zone? He didn't want a badly bred sickly dog in his home.. But he is okay taking high risk on the puppy's without doing the right testing? 

What happens if people don't want the puppy's from your irresponsibility? Will you take ownership or find sickly dogs homes, since you don't care for even the smallest bit of health testing?

Yes this forum is coming down hard. But it's time to self reflect. When the dust settles you know the advice here is correct. And breeding the dog is not the right thing to do. Thank god it was unsuccessful. Count yours and the potential puppy's blessings.

Whether it's that dog or not... You are essentially becoming that Craig list seller you once complained about.. And how you wanted to get rid of that dog if it was sickly. When you are a breeder... What will you do when the clients turn such dogs down? And it's more likely to come from an unprofessional litter without the bare minimum health checks. Not to mention everything else that should be done.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

You won't get support on this forum breeding random dogs together with no health testing or working titles. It's not being uppity, it's being passionate about the breed and not wanting to see more dogs with temperament and health issues that this breed is already plagued with. Do you know that dogs can get STD's? That is why you test them beforehand, you also want to have the hip and elbows cleared because HD is a devastating disease. The way that your male was acting is an indication of a less than stellar temperament and not one that should be passed on.

I get it, I love my male and I think he's the greatest dog ever... He has good working ability, fantastic with people and children and he's drop dead gorgeous but I would never breed him because there's no need to and I don't want to be responsible for bringing more dogs into this world that doesn't need them. There is no guarantee that any of the pups in that litter will be anything like your male, the best bet is going to an ethical breeder who health tests and works their dogs and telling them what you want.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

OP, since you are clearly not going to be swayed by arguments about breeding quality, may I give you another thing to think about?

Since your previous post suggests you are in metro Detroit...you've probably read the estimates that were in the news (Bloomberg, etc.) last year of up to 50,000 stray dogs roaming in Detroit. While that number was probably inflated, the problem is real. Your city's shelters and rescues can't cope with the number of dogs that need their care--it's too many. 

Nationwide shelter surveys have long showed about 25% of shelter populations are purebred -- GSDs are nationally one of the 3 or 4 most common breeds showing up and getting euthanized in shelters. They die in droves in many parts of the country. Detroit also has a dog-fighting problem, and GSDs are favored bait dogs (due to the fur around the neck), according some law enforcement officers I've talked to. Bad, bad things can happen to dogs when amateurs breed them and place them where ever they can.

In shelters, each one of those dogs that dies was bred by _someone _who passed a pup on to _someone else _who was irresponsible. Those "someones" made some choices that ended up having disastrous consequences for the dog. After you do this, for the next 12 years, you may find yourself wondering how many are still alive? How many of your cute pups grew up to die terrified in a concrete euthanasia room with strangers handling them? These are tough things to think about.

Before you decide, go to your local public shelter, and ask them to give you a tour of the puppy room. Find out how many litters they put down this week. Let them show you the dumpster with black bags. Bringing lives into this world carries a _heavy_ responsibility. Understand that responsibility before you take it on.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

please listen to people here, they are not uppity they love this breed and understand what's happening. you are creating lives here, please be responsible. please.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I won't get into who I think should or shouldn't breed, but the bottom line is...IMO a stud that is too nervy to breed or refuses to breed....shouldn't be bred. If the dog is truly of "superior" quality, then he knows what to do and should do it. 

Just because a puppy obsessively humps his toys or pillows does not mean he has the right drive or temperament for breeding. My stud dog has *never* humped anything (no toy, pillow, no humping other dogs in dominance or play, no humping random people's legs, etc) but if you bring him a female that is flagging, game on. Humping stuff is just a sign that the dog is aroused (not necessarily sexually, just acting hyper and overstimulated) and is a training issue, not a sign of breedworthiness.

If my male is not interested in a female, it means she's not in standing heat yet. If she is ready, he will immediately get down to business. If she is close but maybe a day or two early, he will show a lot of interest in her urine, moderate interest in her, but will not try very hard (he will mount but if she's not truly ready and fights him, he won't continue to pursue like he will if she is in standing heat).

The owner of the female should have been tracking her cycles before breeding and also doing progesterone tests to target the optimal timing.


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