# Meeting Other Dogs



## Anastasia (Oct 7, 2011)

We took Jack on a hike last weekend and on the trail we came across a dog also off lead. The owner grabbed his collar and I put Jack back on his leash. We were separated by a large puddle of standing water. The owner of the other dog wanted them to meet and thankfully she asked me. I said no because Jack has only had two sets of shots. Her dog was pulling and his ears were back. I don't know if the dog was excited or aggressive. Honestly my first though was Anthony and Kiras experience with an aggressive dog and I wanted to avoid that. The dog just seemed to want to get to Jack and it made me nervous.

So my question is what am I looking for when we come across another dog. I don't feel like I know enough about other dogs body language to make a judgement call. What are my options?


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

As my trainer always says "you just never know".


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Why does your dog ever need to meet strange dogs? 

When I'm out walking, at pet stores, etc. I NEVER let my dogs meet other dogs for numerous reasons-

There's no need for it.
The other dog could be carrying something contagious.
The other dog may be aggressive, I don't trust the owner's word.

If someone asks if they can meet I say No. If they ask why I tell them that my dog is super friendly with dogs, but I don't trust that any other dog I meet is as friendly or healthy. If they get offended I say that I don't care, I'm looking out for my dog's safety and it's my choice to make. 

I only let them meet dogs at the dog park, and friend's dogs that I know are healthy/safe.


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## Frankly I'm Frank (Jan 2, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> Why does your dog ever need to meet strange dogs?
> 
> When I'm out walking, at pet stores, etc. I NEVER let my dogs meet other dogs for numerous reasons-
> 
> ...


I agree with the above. However, you can also say that your dog is not always friendly and let them save face instead of turning it into an uncomfortable situation.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Frankly I'm Frank said:


> I agree with the above. However, you can also say that your dog is not always friendly and let them save face instead of turning it into an uncomfortable situation.


This is true, too. You can say just about anything you'd like...

I personally prefer not to make my dog look like the bad one when it is their out of control dog that is keeping them from meeting. :wild:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Everytime this comes up someone asks, "why does your dog need to meet other dogs?" Come on people, everyone is in a different situation and some people like their dogs saying hello to other dogs.

It doesn't sound like that dog was aggressive. Most people that walk their dog either off lead or on lead on a pretty long hike care a lot about their dog and it is probably a good dog. There are very few people out there that will allow their dog aggressive dog to meet/attack a puppy. I don't know where this mistrust is from but the majority of dog owners I have met are very upfront about their dogs issues and usually if they ask about meeting it means they know their dog is a good dog.

If you don't want to take the chance, then don't, I've never cared. There is maybe 1% of people out there that would love to see a big dog maul a puppy, but the rest of us, we love not just our dog but all other dogs. I believe 2 rounds of shots is enough to meet other dogs, the third round just contains rabies and I think you'd be able to tell what a rabid dog looks like.

If you want a social dog, and you plan on having him play with other dogs, get him socialized and around dogs you know are good, and then start experimenting with other strange dogs. I've never really cared who my dog meets, he's an 80 lb GSD, he can handle himself.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

martemchik said:


> Everytime this comes up someone asks, "why does your dog need to meet other dogs?" Come on people, everyone is in a different situation and some people like their dogs saying hello to other dogs.


Why would you want to take the risk though? Why not set up scheduled, supervised play dates OFF leash for dogs that you know are safe to play? I'm not saying to never let your dog meet others, but make sure they're safe dogs at least.



> It doesn't sound like that dog was aggressive. Most people that walk their dog either off lead or on lead on a pretty long hike care a lot about their dog and it is probably a good dog. There are very few people out there that will allow their dog aggressive dog to meet/attack a puppy. I don't know where this mistrust is from but the majority of dog owners I have met are very upfront about their dogs issues and usually if they ask about meeting it means they know their dog is a good dog.
> 
> If you don't want to take the chance, then don't, I've never cared. There is maybe 1% of people out there that would love to see a big dog maul a puppy, but the rest of us, we love not just our dog but all other dogs. I believe 2 rounds of shots is enough to meet other dogs, the third round just contains rabies and I think you'd be able to tell what a rabid dog looks like.
> 
> If you want a social dog, and you plan on having him play with other dogs, get him socialized and around dogs you know are good, and then start experimenting with other strange dogs. I've never really cared who my dog meets, he's an 80 lb GSD, he can handle himself.


So much wrong with this. 

First of all, you CANNOT tell by that description whether or not the dog was aggressive. NO way, no how.

Second of all, there are TONS of people in this country that walk their Dog Aggressive dogs off lead. I hear horror stories every day, and have met many such dogs unfortunately. 

A LOT of owners are NOT upfront about their dog's issues, are in denial, or just don't realize it. I meet people like this with dogs on leash and off, and there are hundreds of such stories here on the forums about it.

There is a reason there are 3 sets of shots given, because they do not know when the mother's immunity will wear off and when the dog will be able to use the shot. The second shot may not take and the mother's immunity could wear off before you get the third shot, leaving your puppy completely at risk for viruses like parvo, but if you are already taking the chance walking it, then that is that. BUT, the third shot does NOT only contain rabies (shouldn't contain rabies at all, that is a completely seperate shot that should be given at a different time) and is important for your dog's health before meeting other strange dogs in strange places.

Dogs can carry rabies for up to 6 months before showing signs. While it is EXTREMELY unlikely that you meet a DOG with rabies while out walking, you would not always be able to tell if the dog had rabies or not. 

Just isn't worth the risk to me. I can go home and call a friend over for a doggie play date instead and keep my dogs safe.


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## amaris (Jan 6, 2011)

quick question from a newbie

Is it counted as socialization when the dog is only exposed to the same set of dogs repeatedly? I've always been under the assumption that socialization is in reference to exposing the puppy/dog to as many new experiences as possible.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

amaris said:


> quick question from a newbie
> 
> Is it counted as socialization when the dog is only exposed to the same set of dogs repeatedly? I've always been under the assumption that socialization is in reference to exposing the puppy/dog to as many new experiences as possible.


I consider it socialization when the dog is being shown NEW experiences. Playing with large and small dogs would be different, but IMO playing with 10 different labs (assuming they're all friendly) is the same as playing with one. They just need to meet safe friendly dogs to learn how to interact with dogs period.


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## amaris (Jan 6, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> I consider it socialization when the dog is being shown NEW experiences. Playing with large and small dogs would be different, but IMO playing with 10 different labs (assuming they're all friendly) is the same as playing with one. They just need to meet safe friendly dogs to learn how to interact with dogs period.



got it  Thanks


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

martemchik said:


> Everytime this comes up someone asks, "why does your dog need to meet other dogs?" Come on people, everyone is in a different situation and some people like their dogs saying hello to other dogs.
> 
> It doesn't sound like that dog was aggressive. Most people that walk their dog either off lead or on lead on a pretty long hike care a lot about their dog and it is probably a good dog. There are very few people out there that will allow their dog aggressive dog to meet/attack a puppy. I don't know where this mistrust is from but the majority of dog owners I have met are very upfront about their dogs issues and usually if they ask about meeting it means they know their dog is a good dog.
> 
> ...


Well said.

I take my dogs everywhere and we always encounter dogs. I expect my dogs to be accustomed to this and to accept it as routine. Besides, my adult loves dogs and my pup is good with them as long as he is not on a leash, (but I am working on this.)


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I pick and choose who my dog physcially meets, outside of our pack she has a friend and her brother to visit. I am very happy when at crowded fairs my dog just "looks" and continues happily on our way when passing another dog. I don't want to be friends with everyone in the street. I much rather have a dog that has good manors and seeing other dogs is no big deal.


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## Anastasia (Oct 7, 2011)

The only other person I know that has dogs is my Aunt, she has an out of control untrained 2 year old lab that I don't trust. I live in the very populated northeast and you can't walk a dog in my neighborhood without running into 4 or 5 dogs.
I took him out to the middle of nowhere for a hike hoping that we wouldn't run into any dogs but we did. Do I want him to be socialized and have a healthy well adjusted attitude around all people and dogs, of course. Do I feel he needs dog friends and play dates to be happy, no. The fact of the matter is you can't go anywhere without seeing another dog and my question was what is the best, way to handle that. If there is no tips or hints then fine I'll figure it out and hope I don't ruin my puppy in the process. Just thought I'd ask those with more experience than myself.

He starts puppy classes this Sunday and will be exposed to other dogs there but I will have a trainer there to oversee and step in for aggressive or unwanted behavior.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> He starts puppy classes this Sunday and will be exposed to other dogs there but I will have a trainer there to oversee and step in for aggressive or unwanted behavior.


That's probably the best way to do it!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

DJEtzel I know what you mean by the play dates and what not, but there are people that don't have the space to have dogs play/run off leash. My dog has 2 dog friends that we always see at the dog park, none of us have a yard to go to, so we go to the park. If you want to go through life not trusting anyone thats cool, I'm just not that kind of person. I can see pretty quickly if a dog is being aggressive and I'll avoid if needed, but in almost 99% of cases I've never had a problem.

Personally, unless the dog is being trained for something like SAR/Schutzhund/protection, I have seen more problems in dogs that are not allowed to meet dogs than the ones that are. Now, there are plenty of experienced people that don't have issues and their dog just ignores other dogs, but there are plenty more that due to the pulling away/correcting during the "introduction" process become reactive because they are "taught" that meeting dogs is a bad thing.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

martemchik said:


> DJEtzel I know what you mean by the play dates and what not, but there are people that don't have the space to have dogs play/run off leash. My dog has 2 dog friends that we always see at the dog park, none of us have a yard to go to, so we go to the park. If you want to go through life not trusting anyone thats cool, I'm just not that kind of person. I can see pretty quickly if a dog is being aggressive and I'll avoid if needed, but in almost 99% of cases I've never had a problem.
> 
> Personally, unless the dog is being trained for something like SAR/Schutzhund/protection, I have seen more problems in dogs that are not allowed to meet dogs than the ones that are. Now, there are plenty of experienced people that don't have issues and their dog just ignores other dogs, but there are plenty more that due to the pulling away/correcting during the "introduction" process become reactive because they are "taught" that meeting dogs is a bad thing.


Spot on!

Hypervigilance and overcontrolling can create exactly what you are trying to avoid. Most people with dog aggressive dogs keep their dog away from places where they will most likely encounter other dogs. 

Relax and let the puppy be a puppy. If the pup enjoys other dogs, then let him. I am not saying he "needs" to socialize with other dogs, just saying if he likes to, then why not let him?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

martemchik said:


> Personally, unless the dog is being trained for something like SAR/Schutzhund/protection, I have seen more problems in dogs that are not allowed to meet dogs than the ones that are. Now, there are plenty of experienced people that don't have issues and their dog just ignores other dogs, but there are plenty more that due to the pulling away/correcting during the "introduction" process become reactive because they are "taught" that meeting dogs is a bad thing.


I NEVER said or encouraged pulling away or correction of an introduction. My dogs are taught to never pull on the leash, let alone lunge to meet another dog and therefore are not corrected for it. We just walk by like it's a tree in the dirt and they are expected to ignore the dog because they are on a leash and that isn't the time or place to meet others. Then we go to the park and they calmly walk inside until they are released to play with safe, healthy dogs off leash. My dogs simply aren't taught ANYTHING about meeting dogs on leash. Positive or negative. They don't know what it is and won't experience it.


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## Anastasia (Oct 7, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> Spot on!
> 
> Hypervigilance and overcontrolling can create exactly what you are trying to avoid. Most people with dog aggressive dogs keep their dog away from places where they will most likely encounter other dogs.
> 
> *Relax and let the puppy be a puppy. If the pup enjoys other dogs, then let him. I am not saying he "needs" to socialize with other dogs, just saying if he likes to, then why not let him*?


Thank you, this is really what I was looking for, what should* I* be doing how should *I* react what am* I* looking for. When we met up with the other dog on the trail I froze I was so afraid that if I didn't handle it correctly it would go badly and my puppy would pay the price.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> I NEVER said or encouraged pulling away or correction of an introduction. My dogs are taught to never pull on the leash, let alone lunge to meet another dog and therefore are not corrected for it. We just walk by like it's a tree in the dirt and they are expected to ignore the dog because they are on a leash and that isn't the time or place to meet others. Then we go to the park and they calmly walk inside until they are released to play with safe, healthy dogs off leash. *My dogs simply aren't taught ANYTHING about meeting dogs on leash. Positive or negative. They don't know what it is and won't experience it.*


What about owners who have lost control of their dogs and they're running toward you or unleashed dogs that run to you also?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

RocketDog said:


> What about owners who have lost control of their dogs and they're running toward you or unleashed dogs that run to you also?


I kick them after asking the owners to get their dog once... unless the dog is already on top of me. Or I kick them AND pick up my dog, depending on which dog I have. I have a 9lb rat terrier that is easy to pick up. Otherwise I put Frag in a sit stay behind me and body block/kick the dog in front of me and yell until the owner gets it or it runs away.


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## Frankly I'm Frank (Jan 2, 2012)

RocketDog said:


> What about owners who have lost control of their dogs and they're running toward you or unleashed dogs that run to you also?


That has happened to me countless times in the woods. Usually my dog skirts the area because he sees them coming then he joins back up with me after they went by. If the dogs chase him, good luck to them because he is too fast and agile for anything except a greyhound. If he is on leash and they come at us I get between them and my dog and yell something at the owner that I regret later.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Unfortunately there's no definitive sign of aggression other than the obvious ones. Hackles up and ears back could be fear, excitement, aggression, or something else entirely. My dog sometimes gets her hackles up while playing with the neighbours dog who she really likes. She doesn't do it every time, only sometimes. She also gets her hackles up when she thinks she sees something in the dark and is being "protective." 

Also, some dogs will "stalk" right before they engage to play with another dog. This looks very aggressive, but it isn't most of the time. GSD's are well known for this behaviour and it has made other dog owners nervous when Cedar does it, but she's just playing. 

I don't believe in assuming all other dogs are aggressive, but at the same time, I understand that it is possible. Cedar is a full grown GSD so I don't have to worry too much. If I misread the body language of the other dog (has never happened) and Cedar also misreads the body language (we have come across seemingly aggressive dogs and she picks up on it and has no interest in meeting those dogs) then I have confidence she can defend herself long enough for me to get in there and stop it. 

In the case of a puppy, a bit more caution needs to be taken as the puppy can't protect itself from most other dogs. All you can do is your best. Approach dogs slowly and watch the body language. If the other dog seems to get tense the closer your dog gets, then you may not want to let them meet. It could be just a timid dog that will relax once it meets your dog, but it could also be a dog that bites when scared.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> I kick them after asking the owners to get their dog once... unless the dog is already on top of me. Or I kick them AND pick up my dog, depending on which dog I have. I have a 9lb rat terrier that is easy to pick up. Otherwise I put Frag in a sit stay behind me and body block/kick the dog in front of me and yell until the owner gets it or it runs away.


Wow. What about dogs that are friendly, just untrained? Or ones that aren't--you may end up with a bitten leg. What about just remaining calm and body blocking? I would guess by kicking right away, you are not only sending signals to your animals, but you might be damaging the other dog. 

I could see scenarios of dogs being loose through no one's actual fault--a worker leaves a gate open, kids let the dog out....even car accidents. You'd be surprised how many pets are involved in traffic accidents. My DH is a firefighter and they have calls where the pet is unrestrained and goes running out when they open the doors. They do not attempt to get the pet until the human factor is taken care of.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I kick them after asking the owners to get their dog once... unless the dog is already on top of me. Or I kick them AND pick up my dog, depending on which dog I have. I have a 9lb rat terrier that is easy to pick up. Otherwise I put Frag in a sit stay behind me and body block/kick the dog in front of me and yell until the owner gets it or it runs away.


My dog is super friendly and is an absolutely sweetheart. She wouldn't go running up to you and your dog, especially if I called her back. With that said, if for some strange reason she ignored me and went running up to your dog to meet him and you kicked her, me and you would have a huge, huge problem. Anyone who kicks my dog better be prepared for the fight of their life as no way in **** would I accept that. She is friendly and does not present a risk whatsoever. 

Now me and you will never meet, but don't think for a second there aren't people like me in your area. No matter how big and strong you are, there's always someone bigger, stronger and tougher.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

RocketDog said:


> Wow. What about dogs that are friendly, just untrained? Or ones that aren't--you may end up with a bitten leg. What about just remaining calm and body blocking? I would guess by kicking right away, you are not only sending signals to your animals, but you might be damaging the other dog.
> 
> I could see scenarios of dogs being loose through no one's actual fault--a worker leaves a gate open, kids let the dog out....even car accidents. You'd be surprised how many pets are involved in traffic accidents. My DH is a firefighter and they have calls where the pet is unrestrained and goes running out when they open the doors. They do not attempt to get the pet until the human factor is taken care of.


If they are friendly and will respond to body blocking, then I don't take it farther. If they invade my space and my dog's space, body blocking isn't working and I'm not letting my dogs get nailed or worse by a dog with god knows what diseases or temperament. I have insurance if I get bit, I've been bit before and have recovered, and I can sue the people if I get bit. It's unlikely I can do that if my dog does, it could cause a lot of behavioral issues to my dogs, and it's a lot more likely that my dog will get seriously injured than myself. So far, my dogs have seen no ill behavior effects resulting from me body blocking, picking up my dogs, or kicking other dogs... they are still fine on a leash and I've had to do this more than I wanted. If they were to develop some sort of issue, I'm sure it'd be less than if they were attacked and traumatized. My GSD was attacked by a friend's dog as a puppy and was very reactive for a few months. Once we got solid, I vowed to not let that happen again. So I'm not taking chances when my dogs are leashed and following the law, minding our own business. It doesn't really matter WHY the dog is loose, I'm not letting it hurt my dog. 

There have of course been instances where I saw a dog get away from an owner and it was not rushing me, but did trot over to say hello and it was obvious based on the dog's attitude that it wasn't a threat to me, and because it was moving slowly I was able to step away from my dog and grab the dog for the owner to leash or grab. I do assess the situation, but as soon as the dog shows that it's not going to stop with my yelling and body posture, I do what I have to to keep it away from my dog. And I'm not talking full swing blows to the head with foot... I'm talking shoving the dog away with my foot, before it escalates to me having to use pressure, or even kicking AT the dog, and not making contact. Usually that is enough to scare a dog away.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

That is a much better explanation than your first. It seemed quite different when you said you just kicked them, or kicked and picked yours up as well. Thank you for clarifying.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

shaner said:


> My dog is super friendly and is an absolutely sweetheart. She wouldn't go running up to you and your dog, especially if I called her back. With that said, if for some strange reason she ignored me and went running up to your dog to meet him and you kicked her, me and you would have a huge, huge problem. Anyone who kicks my dog better be prepared for the fight of their life as no way in **** would I accept that. She is friendly and does not present a risk whatsoever.
> 
> Now me and you will never meet, but don't think for a second there aren't people like me in your area. No matter how big and strong you are, there's always someone bigger, stronger and tougher.


Well, in many situations, I've had people get nasty with me about it, but what they don't realize is that sometimes I've been walking a dog aggressive foster dog, and if your friendly dog ran up and I just let her meet my dog, she would have many NASTY wounds on her face instantly. Do you want that? No. Neither do I. So I spare everyone involved. SORRY. Also, your dog is the one breaking the law. I don't walk where there aren't leash laws, FOR this reason. 

So I politely let anyone that has an issue know that I don't care their dog is friendly (not that I believe it half the time anyway), because mine is NOT and would have hurt their dog a LOT worse than my yelling, body blocking, or light kicking.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

RocketDog said:


> That is a much better explanation than your first. It seemed quite different when you said you just kicked them, or kicked and picked yours up as well. Thank you for clarifying.


You're welcome. I really should just take the time to elaborate and clarify first, when I usually know what I say can come off wrong or mean. I guess I'm just lazy, but I do have good intentions.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I had an encounter with a Chihuahua one day at the park. I had Z with me and at that time he was leash reactive. The little Chi came rushing up barking its fool head off, so I took a few fast steps ahead to avoid the little dog and hollered to its owners asking them to please keep it away from us. They thought I was crazy & clearly didn't get that I meant for its safety. 

A few weeks later I had both of my dogs with me at the park and saw the same Chihuahua off leash again. I asked the lady to please leash her dog and she yelled that I shouldn't have vicious dogs at the park. I told her they are vicious, but they think her little dog is a squirrel. She still didn't get it.

Four months ago I took my dogs to my parents house in OR. They have a little Chi/Yorkie mix and this is what happened


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> Well, in many situations, I've had people get nasty with me about it, but what they don't realize is that sometimes I've been walking a dog aggressive foster dog, and if your friendly dog ran up and I just let her meet my dog, she would have many NASTY wounds on her face instantly. Do you want that? No. Neither do I. So I spare everyone involved. SORRY. Also, your dog is the one breaking the law. I don't walk where there aren't leash laws, FOR this reason.
> 
> So I politely let anyone that has an issue know that I don't care their dog is friendly (not that I believe it half the time anyway), because mine is NOT and would have hurt their dog a LOT worse than my yelling, body blocking, or light kicking.


Fair enough. Your last post explained it much better anyway. I now understand what you're saying. I thought you would immediately kick any dog that approached you, no matter the circumstances, body language, etc. My dog simply doesn't approach strange dogs by running up to them, she prefers to meet them halfway or let them come to her, and this is only in off leash areas anyway, and she would listen to me if I called her to me, but you never know with animals, they do strange, unexpected things every now and then. I just had this vision of my dog trotting over to yours with her tail wagging looking to say hello and getting kicked in the head. That thought really disturbed me, as I'm sure it would for you. 

But I get your point now, you clarified and I don't fully disagree.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

LOL.

A month or so ago, Rocket and I were walking into PetSmart around 8pm at night. We go when there are less people and pets. I always scan the front to see if there are dogs there so I can judge the situation. All looked clear, so we walked in and out of nowhere (really, it was the aisle to the right, and the guy had his dog on a retractable, Grrr) this small Terrier booms into Rocket and literally starts biting his muzzle. Jumping up and BITING his muzzle. At this point Rocket is almost 6 months, so he's well over 50lbs and what did my boy do? 

Nothing. He just stood there, lifting his muzzle and turning it side to side as if to avoid the bites. His tail stayed in it's normal curve, he didn't run, he didn't bark or snap, his ears were normal. The guy drags his dog back, snapping and snarling and says to me "Sorry, he must be cranky today!" I ignored him and removed Rocket, praising and treating and telling him what a good boy he was. I was so proud of him. :wub:


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Anastasia, 

Just remember what ever you decide to do, that little baby dog is depending on you to protect him. Monitor the situation, if you feel uneasy with the way things are going, relax, stay calm, and gently scoop your little one up and walk away.


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## 4score (Nov 4, 2011)

We've been walking little Walter in the neighborhood where there are no unleashed dogs. When we come across another dog who "appears" friendly, we ask the owner if they can meet and if their dog is friendly. The other day, this little 10-yr old terrier was a bit cranky but I was very happy with the way Walter handled himself. He back off when the other dog barked but kept asking the older dog for just a sniff. I thought he was very brave and also I think he learned something in the meeting. He learned that not all dogs are the same and some are cranky and have barriers and they are to be respected. After a few attempts, Walter gave up trying too hard and just had fun watching the other dog. Also, our trainer has told us that when you are letting 2 dogs "meet", try to let them have a loose leash or you're inviting tension. She also reminds us that dogs don't meet nose to nose. Give them space to sniff a little.

We are cautious with the dogs we allow Walter to meet but we think it's vital to allow them the experience of meeting other dogs.


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