# Breeder help, MA



## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

Hi all, new to the forum. Excited to learn from you all. My fiancé and I are currently looking for a new pup since our staffordshire is no longer with us. We are very interested in GSDs. We hope for a dog that is a family pet (we have no kids). But, we also are interested in a working line dog that we can do obedience, agility, and perhaps competition (schutzhund) work at some point with. I have become very interested in East German shepherds / DDRs and think one would be perfect for us. We are committed to providing ample training and working with dog daily. We already have a trainer who we worked with for our staffordshire who we like and is experienced in working line breeds.
Does anyone suggest any other breeders I should look into? Or perhaps provide some things to look for in breeders?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I would not recommend a DDR dog.......

Try BarBerg - Claudia McNaulty - not sure if she is in MA or VT or NH...

Lee


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you want to do sport with a dog then I highly suggest you visit the clubs in the area. There are many in NH / MA / CT. A DDR or a Czech dog is not what I would recommend for a first time owner who wants to do sport. There are many breeders that can provide you a wonderful, all around, dog that are not DDR. I would recommend a WG line dog or a WG mix that is lower DDR or Czech. 
But to be frank, I can't figure out what the big rush on DDR dogs lately is all about. what are you all seeing online that draws you to them?

As a disclaimer, because I know i've been down on the people wanting a DDR or Czech dog - I have a 1/4 Czech dog and she is not for the faint of heart. She is not social to strangers and has very little tolerance for them. It's not that I don't like them. I like them a lot. It's that I live with one and know I would have been in trouble if she were my first dog. I was with a friend today that asked me what she was and when I say she had Czech in her, my friend said "they're different, aren't they?" Yes. Yes, they are.


----------



## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

wolfstraum said:


> I would not recommend a DDR dog.......
> 
> Try BarBerg - Claudia McNaulty - not sure if she is in MA or VT or NH...
> 
> Lee


Okay, I will look into them. Can I ask why not a DDR? I am looking to gain as much knowledge as possible and after reading about them they seemed exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

They tend to lack the traits/drives needed for a good IGP dog.


----------



## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> If you want to do sport with a dog then I highly suggest you visit the clubs in the area. There are many in NH / MA / CT. A DDR or a Czech dog is not what I would recommend for a first time owner who wants to do sport. There are many breeders that can provide you a wonderful, all around, dog that are not DDR. I would recommend a WG line dog or a WG mix that is lower DDR or Czech.
> But to be frank, I can't figure out what the big rush on DDR dogs lately is all about. what are you all seeing online that draws you to them?
> 
> As a disclaimer, because I know i've been down on the people wanting a DDR or Czech dog - I have a 1/4 Czech dog and she is not for the faint of heart. She is not social to strangers and has very little tolerance for them. It's not that I don't like them. I like them a lot. It's that I live with one and know I would have been in trouble if she were my first dog. I was with a friend today that asked me what she was and when I say she had Czech in her, my friend said "they're different, aren't they?" Yes. Yes, they are.


Thanks for the comment, I appreciate your help. . 

We both love training and enjoyed seeing what we could get our last dog to do. Sport seems like something I would really enjoy and I will look around for a club near me, that is an awesome suggestion. I imagine saying I want to try competition is a pretty bold statement with out having experience it first hand, so maybe that is a drastic statement, but is a long term goal.

I was attracted to DDRs becase from what I read they seemed to have less issues than other GSDs. But, please correct me if I am wrong. Can I ask why you suggest a WG line pup and not DDR? I am certainly not questioning you, I am truly trying to find the right pup for us.

Thanks again, its quite hard to try and take in the overwhelming amount of information / opinions out there for GSDs.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

High drive meaning prey drive? What about a dog that is not not food oriented, not toy oriented, not tug oriented, aloof, independent, disliked formal obedience, powerful, strong willed, capable of making his own decisions, persistent, and with loads of suspicion from early on? Does he sound like a modern IGP or agility dog?


----------



## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

GSD07 said:


> High drive meaning prey drive? What about a dog that is not not food oriented, not toy oriented, not tug oriented, aloof, independent, disliked formal obedience, powerful, strong willed, capable of making his own decisions, persistent, and with loads of suspicion from early on? Does he sound like a modern IGP or agility dog?


Not neccesarily prey drive. I suppose by high drive I mean high energy. I am hoping for a dog interested in an active lifestyle, not a couch potato, but happy to be inside when we are inside. Obviously we plan for daily training / activities. 

The dog you described sounds quite challenging. Does that description fit a certain line of GSDs?


----------



## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> They tend to lack the traits/drives needed for a good IGP dog.


Ahh I see. Do you think I should look into west german lines instead?


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

DDR is fine in small doses.....but IMO - the gene pool is very narrow....most people breeding "straight" DDR are looking more for color and appearance...not balance, not drive, not temperament. The DDR dogs were strong, with little prey, and can have more aloof and aggression than many may want to deal with.

I personally prefer a combination of lines - Belgian, Czech WGR adn DDR - many people are still into straight WGWL for sport....high prey, extreme activity.........I like a combination of lines, carefully matched up for a more well rounded animal who can work as well as live as a companion without bouncing off the walls.

Lee


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

crowconor said:


> Not neccesarily prey drive. I suppose by high drive I mean high energy. I am hoping for a dog interested in an active lifestyle, not a couch potato, but happy to be inside when we are inside. Obviously we plan for daily training / activities.
> 
> The dog you described sounds quite challenging. Does that description fit a certain line of GSDs?


That's a description of DDR line dogs. I also prefer a mixture of lines. If you want a working line, I would stop worrying about what lines they come from and find dogs with the temperament you like.


----------



## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> That's a description of DDR line dogs. I also prefer a mixture of lines. If you want a working line, I would stop worrying about what lines they come from and find dogs with the temperament you like.


Wow, didn’t realize that. Perhaps I’ll avoid just ddr lines and aim for more of a mix . Thank you
Any breeders you recommend?


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

You sound like you really want to do sport. What protection sport do you want to do? From there, I suggest you look at breedings likely to produce high level sport dogs and DDR lines were not bred for sport. That does not necessarily include strictly West German working lines. More and more, lines are mixed regarding different dog's country of origin, which initially said something about a dog's temperament, but not so much today. Straight Czech lines are becoming rarer as they are crossed with West German and other lines. IMO, DDR lines that resemble the original DDR lines are very rare. The other thing is you need to find a sport and a club that offers quality training because otherwise, it doesn't matter what dog you have, if you don't have access to very good training, you will be very limited in what you achieve. Unfortunately, good training is not that common.


----------



## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> You sound like you really want to do sport. What protection sport do you want to do? From there, I suggest you look at breedings likely to produce high level sport dogs and DDR lines were not bred for sport. That does not necessarily include strictly West German working lines. More and more, lines are mixed regarding different dog's country of origin, which initially said something about a dog's temperament, but not so much today. Straight Czech lines are becoming rarer as they are crossed with West German and other lines. IMO, DDR lines that resemble the original DDR lines are very rare. The other thing is you need to find a sport and a club that offers quality training because otherwise, it doesn't matter what dog you have, if you don't have access to very good training, you will be very limited in what you achieve. Unfortunately, good training is not that common.


I do want to do try sport eventually. I have been very interested in IPO and I have been looking for clubs near me. Seems like there are a few options.

I had not realized that mixed lines were so recomended. I will look for breeders that are not purely DDR.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

It is more that most breedings are not strictly from pedigrees from one country as it used to be, which adds genetic diversity. It is the dog’s in the pedigree that help predict the temperament of a breeding more than the country the dogs come from nowadays. DDR lines are more of an exception, but in reality, the so called DDR lines are somewhat similar to the dogs when there actually was an East Germany. They typically are not that suitable for IPO/IGP.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

crowconor said:


> Not neccesarily prey drive. I suppose by high drive I mean high energy. I am hoping for a dog interested in an active lifestyle, not a couch potato, but happy to be inside when we are inside. Obviously we plan for daily training / activities.
> 
> The dog you described sounds quite challenging. Does that description fit a certain line of GSDs?



FYI - Energy and Drive are not the same thing. You can have a high energy, neurotic, dog with no drive. You can have a dog with higher drives that can chill when necessary. Energy is just that. Energy. Drive is explosive. It can be turned on and off. It's the desire to do something. You do actually want a couch potato when you're inside trying to eat supper. That's called an "off switch". I certainly never want a dog that I have to run until he can't move in order to settle in the house because of neurotic energy.

I think there was just a thread on drives that had a really good explanation to it? Anyone?


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Karen McEntyre in NH at Mack-Zwinger is a good one in your area to look at too.


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

It’s a lot harder (and less enjoyable) to train a dog that isn’t easily motivated with food, toys, or a natural desire to engage with you. 

“high prey drive” doesn’t automatically correspond to predatory behavior, in GSDs. They can be crazy for a ball or tug toy and completely safe and sane with small animals. As long as they’re clear headed, and have some balance.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I would give up a few years of my life for a good DDR dog again. Unfortunately from what I’ve seen lately (maybe just my luck ) it’s that the package got prettier (black sable, huge, blocky head etc) but the nerves and drives are just weak. So I ended up with a regular mixed lines pup, and so far he’s great. Compact, light, made for movement and speed, steady temperament, keeps me active and makes me work on my training skills 

The DDR dogs have plenty of energy, drive and handler focus, just not high prey, are clearheaded and discerning and can control that on off switch like no other. It’s very very enjoyable to work with a dog that is on the same wave as you are, no need to carry treats or toys around, pure magic if you manage to find that mutual understanding. Slow maturing too.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

This is a really nice dog. I've seen him trial. Pretty sure he went to Regionals in 2019. So Christine may be an option for you. I think she's in NC?





__





Blackthorn's Vodka


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Blackthorn's Vodka




www.pedigreedatabase.com


----------



## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> This is a really nice dog. I've seen him trial. Pretty sure he went to Regionals in 2019. So Christine may be an option for you. I think she's in NC?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’ve also heard good things about this dog


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Nscullin said:


> I’ve also heard good things about this dog
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


.He's a lot. I don't think for a first time handler but he was pretty impressive even at the IPO1 stage.


----------



## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> .He's a lot. I don't think for a first time handler but he was pretty impressive even at the IPO1 stage.


Yes, I’m sure. I think I’ve heard he produces well too but I don’t want to thread hijack. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> It is more that most breedings are not strictly from pedigrees from one country as it used to be, which adds genetic diversity. It is the dog’s in the pedigree that help predict the temperament of a breeding more than the country the dogs come from nowadays. DDR lines are more of an exception, but in reality, the so called DDR lines are somewhat similar to the dogs when there actually was an East Germany. They typically are not that suitable for IPO/IGP.


I see. I appreciate the infor


----------



## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> Karen McEntyre in NH at Mack-Zwinger is a good one in your area to look at too.


Thanks, I will check her out!


----------



## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

GSD07 said:


> I would give up a few years of my life for a good DDR dog again. Unfortunately from what I’ve seen lately (maybe just my luck ) it’s that the package got prettier (black sable, huge, blocky head etc) but the nerves and drives are just weak. So I ended up with a regular mixed lines pup, and so far he’s great. Compact, light, made for movement and speed, steady temperament, keeps me active and makes me work on my training skills
> 
> The DDR dogs have plenty of energy, drive and handler focus, just not high prey, are clearheaded and discerning and can control that on off switch like no other. It’s very very enjoyable to work with a dog that is on the same wave as you are, no need to carry treats or toys around, pure magic if you manage to find that mutual understanding. Slow maturing too.


I did not realize that. Thanks for the information. I am leaning towards a mixed line pup after everyones comments


----------

