# Are WL GSDs more fit then SL GSDs?



## King_the_GSD (Feb 19, 2017)

I have a WL GSD and doesn't seem to get fat no matter how much he eats, always has the same lean/fit look.

Are all or most WL GSDs like that? Or is it just a GSD thing?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nope. I've seen working line dogs that look like coffee tables, and show line dogs that are thin and don't carry their weight well. I have seen fit dogs in both venues. I have an old bitch that I feed hardly nothing to and she is stocky as they come. And Milla, at 2 I could barely get her over 50 pounds. Now she is in her 70s, but she is 8.5 years old now. 

I think a working line dog with a ton of energy and drive, and outlets for that, would tend to be fitter than a showline dog that has almost no drive, and wants to be a couch potato. But they are not all couch potatoes. 

I think it really depends on the owners when it comes to overweight, underweight is tougher because sometimes we fight their metabolism.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

If by fit you mean lean, then yes, both my WGSL and my white GSD are very fit. I try to keep them on the leaner side. I think it's better for their joints and overall health. I think they weigh about the right amount so I've never tried to get them heavier. If they ate too much and didn't get enough exercise, I imagine they would put on pounds. I've seen fat GSDs and it's kind of sad.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Girl at club has two SL GSD's. Both are fit and healthy. Drives are good. Good dogs. 
I assume dogs are a lot like People in that activity level and diet have a lot more to do with weight than breed or type.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

Idk my dog who is believed to have WL in him runs faster and is far more agile than any dog out there. I've only seen one German Shepherd that could catch him, and it was a working line.

Saw a video too of a WL GSD rough housing with a SL. Despite the SL being larger he was no match because of the quickness that the WL GSD. So yeah I would say the WL is more fit than the SL.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

http://shawlein.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/WORK-VS-SHOW.jpg

Just let your common sense do the talking here. Which one of the above dogs looks more fit? Common sense should answer that for you.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

OK, those two pictures are a lousy example because neither dog is in the same stance. Think about the times someone has taken a photo of you at the wrong moment, you know the one, winking and mouth open looking dorfy. 

My WGSL is three and thin and trim, although it is hard to see under all his fur. He doesn't have the drive of some of the WL dogs in our club but he is still healthy young and strong. Same breeder but different parents, my female is much smaller and zooms! 

Maybe those who specifically chose to get WL dogs intend to do more with their dogs, get out more and stay active longer with their dogs. 

In our club we have a gal with a golden retriever in her pack. When she first came her dog had the typical labby chunkiness. Now her lab is trim and muscular. She changed the way she feeds her dogs and how she works with them.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> http://shawlein.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/WORK-VS-SHOW.jpg
> 
> Just let your common sense do the talking here. Which one of the above dogs looks more fit? Common sense should answer that for you.


My two showlines say fooey to this comment. I have asl and wgsl pup. Max my male asl Gsd is tireless and is not a hyper dog our wgsl pup can keep right up with him if we let her. One of his grandfather's lived till he was 16 and he was a young 16. The vet always comments on Max's muscles and the great shape he is in. I think if a dog is a couch potatoe it is more challenging to keep the dog fit -if the dog has enough drive it makes it easier to stay in shape. Of course diet comes into play.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

King_the_GSD said:


> I have a WL GSD and doesn't seem to get fat no matter how much he eats, always has the same lean/fit look.
> 
> Are all or most WL GSDs like that? Or is it just a GSD thing?


Its an individual thing. Just like with people. My old girl was on a diet all her life. My guy got fat and lazy as he matured and my little girl is an energizer bunny who would run circles around a cheetah and gets stupid skinny if I am not careful.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> http://shawlein.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/WORK-VS-SHOW.jpg
> 
> Just let your common sense do the talking here. Which one of the above dogs looks more fit? Common sense should answer that for you.


Sometimes I just want to shake my head. Whether a dog is fit or not comes down to what it is fed and what exercise it gets.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Fitness is individual and could be more to do with the owner than the dog. There is some quote out there: "If you see a fat dog, there is an owner who needs exercise."


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

King_the_GSD said:


> I have a WL GSD and doesn't seem to get fat no matter how much he eats, always has the same lean/fit look.
> 
> Are all or most WL GSDs like that? Or is it just a GSD thing?


Is your boy intact? I ask because my SL girl couldn't keep weight on to save her life before her spay. Now I am always working to keep her lean and cut. It's still kind of a losing battle. The magic distance is 15-20 miles per week of walking on top of whatever else we do. I don't always achieve that.

I see fit dogs of both line types, though. The basic structures might be a bit different, but when it comes to evaluating overall fitness, I don't feel comfortable generalizing.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I think some dogs just have a fast metabolism. My dog is going on 4 now and I still have to feed him extra bits so I don't have to see all his ribs. He eats about 2 lbs of meat, bones, and organs a day + about 375 calories (est) of Honest Kitchen base mix + an egg or two if he's looking too lean.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I would guess that on average a working line is more lean/fit than a show line because they are supposed to be selectively bred for working ability. I would think their higher drive and genetically athletic body type would make them more predisposed to be leaner/more agile. That being said just about all the show lines I've seen are fit and athletic looking but look to be more bulky/less agile. The worst I've seen are some pet lines but even with them most look fit, though there have been some fat ones. I'm sure that the dogs activity level and diet have a lot more to do with a GSD being fit than lines.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I was also going to add that intact or not seems to make a difference. As for caloric needs I doubt very seriously there is much difference between lines vs individuals. I will say my impression has been that working line dogs seem to be more athletic or agile sometimes.

But my white boy who is intact sometimes has a hard time eating enough to look good and I have to keep him on high calorie foods. But he is very active, offleash walks, multiple sports ect.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

astrovan2487 said:


> I would guess that on average a working line is more lean/fit than a show line because they are supposed to be selectively bred for working ability. I would think their higher drive and genetically athletic body type would make them more predisposed to be leaner/more agile. That being said just about all the show lines I've seen are fit and athletic looking but look to be more bulky/less agile. The worst I've seen are some pet lines but even with them most look fit, though there have been some fat ones. I'm sure that the dogs activity level and diet have a lot more to do with a GSD being fit than lines.


See this guy's got it down.

Doesn't matter the diet and the exercise level a dog gets, the working line will always be more fit. 

The following video below is a compilation video of two breeds, Rottweiler and German Shepherd but I really just wanna discuss the first clip.






Look at the first German Shepherd trotting in what appears to be a dog show setting. Look how much effort it's taking that poor dog to reach those speeds. Really looks like he's trying. My dog in comparison, straight back and can trot a lot faster than that dog and appear to be putting little to no effort in doing so.

Show lines either have a roach back or slope back and this impeads there movement. In all the videos I've seen they look slow, and something about their movement is unnatural and unsettling. All because some dumb inbred **** said "GERMAN SHEPHERDS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE DEFORMED BACKS! THAT STRAIGHT BACK IS TOO HEALTHY AND THEY MOVE TOO FAST! THE NEW STANDARD NOW SAYS FOR THEM TO HAVE SLOPING BACKS! EITHER BREED THEM THIS WAY OR THEY ARE NOT REAL GERMAN SHEPHERDS!"

If you can't tell I am against breeding for show and dog shows in general. What they've done to breeds like the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, German Shepherd, English Bulldog, Pug, and Boxer is nothing short of criminal.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

The dogs I see regularly who are working, competing, or preparing to compete are usually kept at a higher level of fitness than dogs who aren't working toward something specific. Regardless of their pedigree.

Lambing season and spring trial season are right around the corner (in my area).... It's pretty typical to hear people discussing fine tuning their dog's physical condition & training intensity accordingly. 

Dogs who aren't expected to perform at their peak won't necessarily be kept at the same level, IMHO.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> See this guy's got it down.
> 
> Doesn't matter the diet and the exercise level a dog gets, the working line will always be more fit.


This is a biologically inaccurate statement.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> See this guy's got it down.
> 
> Doesn't matter the diet and the exercise level a dog gets, the working line will always be more fit.
> 
> ...


You should really educate yourself as to what angulation is for, and why it makes sense for the work the breed was intended to do, before spewing a bunch of nonsense on a site for people who love the breed. Correct angulation makes a dog that will cover the ground in a trot (for herding) with the least amount of energy expelled, so that they can do it non-stop for hours on end, every single day. Fast is sprinting. Sprinting might look showy in protection work, but it really isn't what is necessary for herding. Yes, they move sheep/cattle and sometimes have to head them off. But they need to be built for endurance. Too much angulation makes the stride too long or too short to properly cover ground. So does too little. What you want is not extreme, what you want is correct angulation. 

Now, we all think our own brand of GSD is the best out there. Loyalty is ok. But, there are members on this forum that have all the types of GSD out there. White ones, long coats, working lines, GSL, ASL, and so on and so forth. When you attack a line of dogs, you are offending the owners of those lines. Trust me that there are reasons that draw us to the lines we have chosen, which means we like some of the aspects over those of other lines. And we could say things about your favored lines that would offend you. But why do that? Does it make you feel better about your dog, to put down other people's dogs?


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

selzer said:


> Now, we all think our own brand of GSD is the best out there. Loyalty is ok. But, there are members on this forum that have all the types of GSD out there. White ones, long coats, working lines, GSL, ASL, and so on and so forth. When you attack a line of dogs, you are offending the owners of those lines. Trust me that there are reasons that draw us to the lines we have chosen, which means we like some of the aspects over those of other lines. And we could say things about your favored lines that would offend you. But why do that? Does it make you feel better about your dog, to put down other people's dogs?


Very well said. Thank you.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

selzer said:


> When you attack a line of dogs, you are offending the owners of those lines. Trust me that there are reasons that draw us to the lines we have chosen, which means we like some of the aspects over those of other lines. And we could say things about your favored lines that would offend you. But why do that? Does it make you feel better about your dog, to put down other people's dogs?


I am not necessarily insulting the dogs I am insulting all of those who breed for looks in couldn't give two ****s about health and how these "desirable" traits affect the dog long term. I saw a documentary called "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" and it is so insulting to see what they've done to all of these breeds.

Poor dogs are just paying the price for our dumb decisions on what we these numbnuts say is desirable and what they should look like.

Thank god for dogs bred for work.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

A dog is either fit or it isn't, lines have nothing to do with it.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> I am not necessarily insulting the dogs I am insulting all of those assholes who breed for looks in couldn't give two ****s about health and how these "desirable" traits affect the dog long term. I saw a documentary called "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" and it is so insulting to see what they've done to all of these breeds.
> 
> Poor dogs are just paying the price for our dumb decisions on what we these numbnuts say is desirable and what they should look like.
> 
> Thank god for dogs bred for work.


You are aware that there are WL breeders that are just as "bad" as showline breeders in regards to their breeding decisions about dog's health, and what they deem "desirable" traits right? Plenty of WL are a complete and utter mess that fall far outside the breed standard. 

And there are breeders of showline dogs that have wonderful balance, angulation, strong minds, and good health.

There are good and bad breeders in all lines of GSD.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> You are aware that there are WL breeders that are just as "bad" as showline breeders in regards to their breeding decisions about dog's health, and what they deem "desirable" traits right? Plenty of WL are a complete and utter mess that fall far outside the breed standard.
> 
> And there are breeders of showline dogs that have wonderful balance, angulation, strong minds, and good health.
> 
> There are good and bad breeders in all lines of GSD.


Yeah I know there's good and bad in all, but usually the German Shepherds that tend to be in poor health are Show Lines breeders and it's been proven that angulation has negatively impacted the dogs' health. I know over breeding is another result of this.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> Yeah I know there's good and bad in all, but usually the German Shepherds that tend to be in poor health are Show Lines breeders and it's been proven that angulation has negatively impacted the dogs' health. I know over breeding is another result of this.


There's under angulation in wl... Don't bash SL or wl, there are extremes in both. You might have a SL mixed with wl yourself. You never know....


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Lobo, your generalizations and harsh criticisms on this thread cannot be taken seriously. You selected your own dog based on appearances, not proven working ability.

To quote you:



> I was biased with German Shepherds since I absolutely loved one of my friend's German Shepherds. *I wanted a dog that was energetic, intimidating enough to scare off people yet good looking enough to attract women, and even tempered.* I was basically shopping for a dog and I don't think I was in the wrong for that. I don't make the money to buy from a breeder.
> 
> .....
> 
> ...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> I am not necessarily insulting the dogs I am insulting all of those who breed for looks in couldn't give two ****s about health and how these "desirable" traits affect the dog long term. I saw a documentary called "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" and it is so insulting to see what they've done to all of these breeds.
> 
> Poor dogs are just paying the price for our dumb decisions on what we these numbnuts say is desirable and what they should look like.
> 
> Thank god for dogs bred for work.


You need to read the rules of this forum again, because your post is insulting as well as foul-mouthed. That isn't considered impressive here.

Pedigree dogs exposed is a largely skewed documentary created by Animal Rights people. Is it all false? No. There has been degradation to breeds in the course of years of breeding them, due to the changes in leadership of the various groups that have control of the breed, whether that be judges or breeders or breeder/judges. 

Personally, I think some of those changes are hard to prevent. If you continue to try to breed to prevent hip dysplasia for instance, you may also be breeding out another gene and sacrificing health in other areas, but you don't know this until it starts happening. As you narrow the gene pool more and more to eliminate some things, you tend to over-breed in other areas. And then other conditions tend to become more common. 

Some show line dog breeders are breeding too closely or without knowledge, but most of them are actually improving health, temperament, and longevity as they try to improve structure. No documentary will show that because it doesn't fit anyone's agenda. 

You got sucked in by AR propaganda. Yeah, many of us have been. You aren't old enough or experienced enough to critically evaluate everything these extremists put forth, to know that what these people's ideal and goal is, to see roaming packs of feral dogs, and no pet dogs, or any other pets. They also would like to see you eating coconut milk and vegetable oils, grains, fruits, and vegetables, and to have no meat or dairy industry. They are no more friendly to working line dog because all purebred dogs are evil. All pet ownership is wrong. Using dogs for police work is horrible. Using dogs to guide blind people is a form of slavery to our four-footed brethren. They are extremists. 

There was a giraffe ready to birth on u-tube, being broadcast on facebook. They got u-tube to remove it because it is nudity and pornography. These are the people that are trying to skew your thinking about the sport of purebred dogs.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

WIBackpacker said:


> Lobo, your generalizations and harsh criticisms on this thread cannot be taken seriously. You selected your own dog based on appearances, not proven working ability.
> 
> To quote you:


Got me. Eeeeeeyyyy roasted lol

Anyways, Lobo stood out. I already knew about Working Line German Shepherds, Lobo looked like a badass. I just wanted a dog at the time lol but I was kinda picky as hardly any of the dogs at the shelter appealed to me. It was later on down the line that I really started to get into working dogs. 

He liked me and it was clear down the line that he has working line German Shepherds in his blood.

And I hear all this talk about underangulation. Someone wanna explain this too me? And provide pictures if you can.

Anyways if you saw a dog like Lobo at the shelter why wouldn't you take him? Come on I know all of you would have taken him. In a sea of medium sized 25-50 pound mixes shows up a 70 pound large black shepherd. You all love Shepherds and would have all taken him. Here's a transformation picture of him.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> it was clear down the line that he has working line German Shepherds in his blood.


What is it that makes you think that he has WL in his blood? Because of where you got Lobo it is very UNLIKELY that he has any WL gsd in him. WL gsds aren't that common, it is far more likely your handsome GSD mix came from ASL or even BYB lineage as they are FAR FAR more common. It's impossible to tell what line of GSD a GSD mix comes from, but common sense would indicate that it is from the type most prevalent in this country. ASL or BYB. Nothing about your descriptions of him scream "Working Line". He actually has some very non GSD personality traits. Maybe some lab in there. Which could also account for his conformation too.

The very traits in Lobo that you love may come from the efforts of a Showline or pet line breeder. They most likely do.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

lobo floppy ears-Your rude comments are nothing but a broad sweeping generalization of your misinformed beliefs which only seem to want to promote conflict. There are extremes and challenges in every line and sure there are selfish misguided breeders such as any profession but they are only part of the equation. There are many breeders who breed for balance on all lines. I to would not be surprised if your dog lobo is not of working lines.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> Anyways if you saw a dog like Lobo at the shelter why wouldn't you take him? Come on I know all of you would have taken him. In a sea of medium sized 25-50 pound mixes shows up a 70 pound large black shepherd. You all love Shepherds and would have all taken him. Here's a transformation picture of him.


I'd pass on a dog with no proven history or pedigree. To me it's not about looks. I once saw an "ugly" gsd going for his IPO 2. Nothing against lobo...
You should look into Max von Stephanitz's and Linda Shaw's books.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

As for black GSDs, well, if you are against over-breeding, then, maybe you should rethink that. When you breed for color, you have to know a little about the genetics of that color. Black is recessive to all other colors. What this means is that most breeders of black dogs, will have six generation of black dogs, to ensure the black color. For this reason alone, I wouldn't personally go for a black dog. The gene pool is seriously limited. It's why I don't like the idea of the whites being a separate breed. Whites are a masking gene, so it truly isn't a different dog. They are black and tan or bi-color or black, but masked with the white gene. But if we limit whites to breed only with whites, you end up seriously limiting their gene pool.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> What is it that makes you think that he has WL in his blood? Because of where you got Lobo it is very UNLIKELY that he has any WL gsd in him. WL gsds aren't that common, it is far more likely your handsome GSD mix came from ASL or even BYB lineage as they are FAR FAR more common. It's impossible to tell what line of GSD a GSD mix comes from, but common sense would indicate that it is from the type most prevalent in this country. ASL or BYB. Nothing about your descriptions of him scream "Working Line". He actually has some very non GSD personality traits. Maybe some lab in there. Which could also account for his conformation too.
> 
> The very traits in Lobo that you love may come from the efforts of a Showline or pet line breeder. They most likely do.


German Shepherd traits: He's very high energy, very intelligent, very protective, very talkative, extremely fast, agile, powerful. Stubborn yet willing to learn. Trots when picking up speed. Notorious head tilter. Big booming growl barks (I notice all the guard dog breeds like Mastiffs, Dobermans, Rotties and Pitts have this growl bark).

He loves to rough house and only a few GSDs and dogs in general can keep up with him.

Met lots of German Shepherds, some of them have near identical temperaments as Lobo. Same quirks too. Heard him and another GSD bark side by side, they sound near identical. Also gets along best with German Shepherds. Everything that applies to GSDs applies to him. Shoot I met a Black Working Line German Shepherd that was NEAR IDENTICAL to Lobo in terms of appearance and temperament. Had a white spot on his chest too but his ears stood up straight.

Working Line GSD traits: Everyone who's sat him has said he has for more energy than any other dog they've known. A former K9 officer came across him once and mentioned how impressive his work drive is. Has a very high prey drive. Seen him play with German Shepherds and they can never catch up with him. Only one could catch up with him and it was a WL. Also moves like a wolf. Unless it's hot outside, he doesn't really ever shows signs of being tired.

Seen lots of German Shepherd and Lab videos. Not a lot of Labs in my area, but I have yet to see a Lab that does something that reminds me of Lobo.

Lab like qualities: Very friendly, but he's generally aloof unless you pet him or have food. Black coat. Likes to play. Likes water. Scent driven

Aside from that the Lab similarities end there. He doesn't retrieves, well he kinda does but he does it with intent of tugging. Also Labs are notorious for being social and super dog friendly. Yeah Lobo is aloof around dogs too and isn't quick to meet up with other dogs at the dog park unless they approach me. He loves to play but doesn't like to get far away from me.

And you might be right, he may as well be a WL and a SL mix. While he's very eager to learn and doesn't get tired, he's generally calm indoors unless not exercised or not being played with enough. I sometimes think he might have other breedsin there, like Doberman, Border Collie, Australian Shepherd, Mal, or Belgian Sheepdog.

You haven't met Lobo, but if you did you would realize he is probably more German Shepherd than anything else.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Personally, I find it very sad to see someone come on here with such strong opinions without the education to back them up and insulting those who work very hard to improve their show lines. Yes, there are some that are very exaggerated, however, to lump all as the same shows a huge lack of knowledge.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

cloudpump said:


> I'd pass on a dog with no proven history or pedigree. To me it's not about looks. I once saw an "ugly" gsd going for his IPO 2. Nothing against lobo...
> You should look into Max von Stephanitz's and Linda Shaw's books.


Oh don't worry I understand. The no proven history thing is the reason my next puppy is coming from a breeder. Lobo came loaded with behavioral issues.

Oh and on to more German shepherd traits that Lobo has.






Lobo does this if you don't exercise him enough. Seen lots of videos of Shepherds doing this.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

What you see in the video is called the 'zoomies' or in Papillons we even call it the 'butt, scoot and boogie'. I've yet to see or have a breed that didn't do it.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I'm just curious how you would define "work drive" in your dog. Does your dog do actual work? Do you train him in anything? Not meant to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> German Shepherd traits: He's very high energy, very intelligent, very protective, very talkative, extremely fast, agile, powerful. Stubborn yet willing to learn. Trots when picking up speed. Notorious head tilter. Big booming growl barks (I notice all the guard dog breeds like Mastiffs, Dobermans, Rotties and Pitts have this growl bark).
> 
> Just curious if you have ever read the breed standard. Oh, and Pits are not a guard dog type. They have been specifically bred to be good with people.
> 
> ...


I don't think anybody was saying he wasn't part or high content GSD. I think people were questioning what made you think he was working line.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> German Shepherd traits: He's very high energy, very intelligent, very protective, very talkative, extremely fast, agile, powerful. Stubborn yet willing to learn. Trots when picking up speed. Notorious head tilter. Big booming growl barks (I notice all the guard dog breeds like Mastiffs, Dobermans, Rotties and Pitts have this growl bark).
> 
> He loves to rough house and only a few GSDs and dogs in general can keep up with him.
> 
> ...


How many verifiable working line dogs have you been around for more than a few hours and actually worked with?

High energy does not make him a working line. Prey drive and a "work" drive also does not make him a working line. Other dogs not being able to keep up with him does not make him a working line. 

The GSD traits you describe (except maybe stubborn, IME i haven't met truly stubborn GSDS) are found in all the lines. Many of the traits you listed are applicable to multiple breeds, all of which may be in your boy.

You have a shepherd mix. A gorgeous one. But that's it. Presenting him as a WL sets up wrong expectations.

Oh and that video you posted of the zoomies - that's a show line.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Boxers have more energy than my wlgsd. But not the same drive.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

voodoolamb said:


> There are good and bad breeders in all lines of GSD.


Not that I agree with much of what Lobo has said so far, but are people are here really going to pretend that the burden of the blame is equally shared between the working breeders and show breeders?

If someone wants to own a SL GSD, cool beans. To each their own. But there is a reason most US organizations (LE, military) get their GSD's from overseas, or from state-side breeders who import. I don't give a pass to all WL breeders, because I'm sure there are some bad ones out there. I'm not saying that there are no good, well-rounded specimens from American SL's, because I've met a few. And I know that the lines are blurred somewhat in Europe, where SL's are still put through their paces and tested in IPO. But certainly when it comes to American SL's vs WL's _in general_, there is a definite difference in health, temperament and overall capability (individual exceptions aside).

That might be a tough pill for some people to swallow, but it is what it is.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Dalko43 said:


> Not that I agree with much of what Lobo has said so far, but are people are here really going to pretend that the burden of the blame is equally shared between the working breeders and show breeders?
> 
> If someone wants to own a SL GSD, cool beans. To each their own. But there is a reason most US organizations (LE, military) get their GSD's from overseas, or from state-side breeders who import. I don't give a pass to all WL breeders, because I'm sure there are some bad ones out there. I'm not saying that there are no good, well-rounded specimens from American SL's, because I've met a few. And I know that the lines are blurred somewhat in Europe, where SL's are still put through their paces and tested in IPO. But certainly when it comes to American SL's vs WL's _in general_, there is a definite difference in health, temperament and overall capability (individual exceptions aside).
> 
> That might be a tough pill for some people to swallow, but it is what it is.


\

There are many WL breeders breeding outside the standard. IPO has become a sport and is far from it's original roots as a breed test. The dogs have changed to suit the trends of the sport. Lots of WL GSDs out there that are nothing more than a Malinois in a GSD suit. 

IMHO that is just as detrimental to the breed as a whole as what the extreme SL breeders are doing. Outside of the standard is outside of the standard.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

hey guys Imm sorry about the mean comments earlier that was kinda uncalled for lol. Maybe yallare right I don't know a thing or two about show breeding so I just make assumptions and you know what they say about assumptions and assuming lol. I know yal don't like me but hey its cool lol.


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

Looking st Lobo's photo, I clearly see some Border Collie. Also, I think it's a mistake to assume a mixed breed is the result of two purebreds getting together. More likely, Lobo's parents are both mixed breeds themselves, further complicating the picture.

If I had to label Lobo, I would call him a GSD/Border Collie mix.


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> See this guy's got it down.
> 
> Doesn't matter the diet and the exercise level a dog gets, the working line will always be more fit.
> 
> ...


I do like think you understand the difference between American Show Line (ASL) and West German Show Line (WGSL). You may want to research that. The differences are quite significant.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

When it comes to the different lines, there are truths and what people want to believe, in the differences. There are definitely extremes in all lines, and good and bad breeders in all lines, but to equate the lines in health, temperament, working or longevity is not grounded in truth.
If 80% of one line has lost working traits and 50% of another have lost working traits, they are not equal. If there is much higher incidence of illnesses related to stress in one line over another line, they aren't equal. If there is a much higher percent of genetic shyness in one line than another, then they aren't equal. 
All of the lines have inherent problems derived from that LINE, all of them.....but some of the problems are much more debilitating to the breed than others....and that is truth. So if you are breeding to preserve a LINE you are as guilty in your thinking as the thinking of floppy ears as far as the overall good of the breed. Jmo


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

either way the admins just made it clear this morning they don't want to hear anymore pitbull talk. so everyone can finally stop arguing over them now.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Sorry, Lisa. I'd like to apologize to the mod team as a whole for my part in this.

Finding buttons and pushing them for fun is not the most adult behavior and I'm sorry for making things more difficult for the admins and moderators.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Mod hat on- because of threads like this, please see the new rules from Admin and mods. I find it very very sad that we cant behave as adults on this board. The number of whiny alerts of people being offended is just ridiculous. People just need to grow up, or they end up getting policed by the mods and admins and none of us have time in our lives and day to be your kindergarten teacher. LET IT GO

This thread is now closed-


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