# Is he purebred? :)



## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

First of, hi i'm new to this forum. I had a german shepherd before and it was a pleasure growing up with him, he was my best friend. After Vandog passed away, I got a border collie some 7 years ago. Sadly, 6 months ago my adopted Border Collie died due to cancer. After a while I had the chance to get a GSD and I did.

Meet Vandog the II, i've had him since he was only 7 or 8 weeks old. He's a big boy now, 12 weeks old, weighting 12 kg and I love him to pieces.


















































(Notice the ears up, the brief period they were up before going down again hehe)

And here's him with his littermates


















And a bonus; a picture of my late great GSD with my sister










I never got to see my dog's parents but I got to see his mother's picture with the litter. The dad I was told was a sable GSD. Apparently mine's a sable with little black pigmentation but people keep telling me he's not a GSD or that's he's a very rare version of a GSD, any light on that? As far as behavior and body goes, he reminds me alot of my late GSD although he was long coated but the curiosity kills me, is he purebred or crossbred?

PS: About his ears, about 1 week ago they were up both of them but then one day he flopped one down. The next day after this he flopped the other one and has been with his ears sideways or down for a few days now, sometimes gently putting them up before flopping them down again. Meanwhile I went to the vet to get him his 2nd dose of shots and he said it's perfectly normal, he'll get his ears up and prescribed me calcium which i've been giving him for the past 3-4 days. Is this normal? Thanks


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Welcome

I'm sorry to hear about the passing of your Border Collie.

Congratulations on your puppy...what a handsome little guy!

He does look like a GSD to me. There are alot of members here with sables, they are gorgeous and their coat darkens as they get older. Maybe some can post some pics of theirs in your thread so you can see. Not "rare" at all, the general public is just not aware that all GSD don't look like Rin Tin Tin!

Regarding the ears, my boys were all over the place (up, down, back up, down again) and around 5 months were at attention all the time. I gave plenty of things to chew on (elk/deer antler, raw meaty bone). I believe ears go up & down due to teething.


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

Hello and welcome to the forum!!!  This place has tons of helpful information.

Your pups ears will go up and down while they are teething. Looks like a GSD pup too me. The white feet and white spot could be Irish White Spotting Gene. Or could be a indication of a mix?? I'm not sure and I'm not an expert. No pics of dad? That could be another indication that he might not be a GSD. Or some short of mix. Your puppy is adorable!!! He looks very happy!!  There is another member here that had a really light sable named Knukles. You should PM her, she has to s of pics of him. I'm sure she love to share so you can see the similarities.


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

I don't know as I am no expert; but I just wanted to say, that he sure is darn cute!!!! I love his color.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Of course I could be way off. When I first looked at the puppy pics I was leaning towards mix, then saw his littermates which clearly are GSD and then swayed the other way to say GSD.


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## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

DanielleOttoMom said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum!!!  This place has tons of helpful information.
> 
> Your pups ears will go up and down while they are teething. Looks like a GSD pup too me. The white feet and white spot could be Irish White Spotting Gene. Or could be a indication of a mix?? I'm not sure and I'm not an expert. No pics of dad? That could be another indication that he might not be a GSD. Or some short of mix. Your puppy is adorable!!! He looks very happy!!  There is another member here that had a really light sable named Knukles. You should PM her, she has to s of pics of him. I'm sure she love to share so you can see the similarities.


I always wondered about the white but also noticed it's turning.. tan? He had a bit more of a white chest but lately it's been darkening close to tan. And his coat has been turning more red? Which is really funny, he has an arrow like spot on his tail that started small and now is really big that's red in color.

The people I got him from are in no way breeders. Just people that love animals and have two GSD rescues who happened to have a litter. Could be possible he has a mix from generations ago , but I believe he'll grow up to be a GSD. They did mention something about the mother having a couple white spots so it could be Irish White Spotting .

I'd love to see pictures of other tan GSDs, to give me an idea of how he'll turn out like hehe.


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## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

I totally love his color, and lately he's been getting more "red" which makes him look great. He has a friend GSD that's 9 months old and next to him he looks like his son, it's totally cute and gives me a chance to observate the similarities. He REALLY looks like a purebred, atleast next to him the pose, the paws, the muzzle, that scissor bite, the tail are the same, the color is what baffles me and throws me off. Next time i'll snap a picture, it's so cute 

By the way I have a question, incase he is a mix, he had his ears all the way up before and they dropped down. When ears are geneticly and naturally dropped, they're always dropped right? I'm hoping his stay up, but i'm worrying too much - the owners said both parents had the ears up, my vet said they're both even and they'll stand up, and after all he's a GSD hehe.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm not sure but those ears don't quite look right to me, I remember my boy had much bigger ears than his head called for at that age. He's also really golden, without much darkness in his whole body. I know this is possible with sables, but quite rare. I also see that his nails are white, either a sign of a mutation or that he's not pure. It's not normal for a GSD to have that much white on it, mine has a dot on his chest that is fairly difficult to see, but that's it.

Seems like a yellow lab could've gotten in there somewhere.


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

At first glance, I thought it was a GSD and judging from the litter mates as well... Now I'm not so sure. GSD's don't have white paws and his ears should be bigger? I'm no expert. My girl is a sable and she had a solid tan body with a black mask just like yours but yours seems to be more golden... But again, the litter mates have all the right features so I could be wrong. It's hard to tell at this age.


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## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

GSDkid said:


> At first glance, I thought it was a GSD and judging from the litter mates as well... Now I'm not so sure. GSD's don't have white paws and his ears should be bigger? I'm no expert. My girl is a sable and she had a solid tan body with a black mask just like yours but yours seems to be more golden... But again, the litter mates have all the right features so I could be wrong. It's hard to tell at this age.


Oh haha, about the golden he's not that golden as the pictures make him seen not even close. The flash and the filter I had on (Sunset) make it look like he's solid golden while he's really not. He's sort of a fiery, bleached out...











This is the most accurate picture of a GSD (A fawn) I can find. VERY identic to mine, notice the white and other similiar features like ears.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It's very possible that this is a fawn, I mean there is very little pigment in your dog, I would research this because it could lead to other problems and you might have to monitor him a little more in the sun and during other activities.


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Just wanted to say that your little guy is very cute! Your previous gsd was a very handsome boy, thanks for sharing the pics.


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## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

martemchik said:


> It's very possible that this is a fawn, I mean there is very little pigment in your dog, I would research this because it could lead to other problems and you might have to monitor him a little more in the sun and during other activities.


Oh great of you to mention!

HE HATES THE SUN!

With a passion. He could be playing with other dogs and sometimes just walk away and sit in the shadows or be walking down the sideway and start whimpering to get him to a "cool" shadow spot. I never thought much of it but that makes sense, I need to look into it. Are there any health implications of him being a fawn?


He was, wasn't it? It's funny how there's similiar things between them, so many years apart. The love of (wrecking) footballs and balls alike, the inteligence and willingness to please, the eagerness to communicate with and to be around humans.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Since you did not get him from a reputable breeder, the litter may have two sires. The litter pictures show what could be two purebred GSD pups from 'rescued' GSD's. Although that is not to say a reputable breeder wouldnt use two sires for a litter, that is acceptable. But that is a whole other topic.

Your vet is not correct in stating the ears will come up. If from a reputable breeder, breeding purebred GSD's, the chances of both staying up are 'greater'. But that still is no guarantee. Ears (for some reason) will go down during teething. Not sure what kinds of foods are available to you in Portugal, feed a grain free, high quality kibble. I would not be giving calcium supplements. If you want to feed some raw chicken for calcium, that would be better. You can feed chicken necks, or whole wings. There is information on this forum on feeding raw. The raw bone and chewing helps with teething and keeping those teeth clean.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Darc said:


> Oh great of you to mention!
> 
> HE HATES THE SUN!
> 
> With a passion. He could be playing with other dogs and sometimes just walk away and sit in the shadows or be walking down the sideway and start whimpering to get him to a "cool" shadow spot. I never thought much of it but that makes sense, I need to look into it. Are there any health implications of him being a fawn?


I'm basing this all off my knowledge of other breeds and I know that a lot of white is usually not a good thing. Like in boxers, all white ones are known to have issues with skin/allergies and other digestive things. It's kind of a form of albinism. I know that white german shepherds are still expected to have dark eyes, black noses, and black toe nails, any discoloration is a sign of loss of pigment and not of the masking white gene. Without any black (except his face) he probably does have loss of pigment and needs to be watched carefully for skin issues.


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## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

dawnandjr said:


> Since you did not get him from a reputable breeder, the litter may have two sires. The litter pictures show what could be two purebred GSD pups from 'rescued' GSD's. Although that is not to say a reputable breeder wouldnt use two sires for a litter, that is acceptable. But that is a whole other topic.
> 
> Your vet is not correct in stating the ears will come up. If from a reputable breeder, breeding purebred GSD's, the chances of both staying up are 'greater'. But that still is no guarantee. Ears (for some reason) will go down during teething. Not sure what kinds of foods are available to you in Portugal, feed a grain free, high quality kibble. I would not be giving calcium supplements. If you want to feed some raw chicken for calcium, that would be better. You can feed chicken necks, or whole wings. There is information on this forum on feeding raw. The raw bone and chewing helps with teething and keeping those teeth clean.


Thanks for the tip, it's stressing me about the ears. They were up and then down, then sometimes he puts one up and the other down. I have no idea they'll get up, gr. What are the chances they'll get up? 

The calcium supplements I have been giving him is basicly a teaspoon a day , for 15 days about 8 days left or so. As food goes, I was until now recently feeding him Royal Canin for puppies but since the sack ended i'm giving him ActivPet (Household brand), not without before checking the caloric content which seems on-par with friskies and pedigree,etc. I bought him a big 'leather' bone for him to chew on and today I gave him a veal cooked bone for him to gnaw on.

Hm, i've been checking and it's funny - he has a couple white toenails per paw. The rest are black! My dog is weird.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

DO NOT give cooked bones! They can splinter and have very sharp points that can damage his insides. Then you are looking at possible surgery. No need to buy the expensive processed bones from the pet store. If you have a local butcher or store with a meat department, get raw bones. I would stick with beef bones. If he gets loose stools, from the marrow, just remove most of that before giving to him. Raw marrow bones are great for a teething puppy, and keeping them busy in their crate. My 14 month old is laying next to me right now with two old ones next to her nose.

Lack of pigmentation is likely the culprit of the light coloring. I have had a couple puppies born with very tiny white spots on their chest and one or two toes. Both darkened up as they aged. Thought to come through Fero in the bloodline.

Can you find a better quality kibble where you? You can go to dogfoodanalysis.com to take a look at some options.


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## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

dawnandjr said:


> DO NOT give cooked bones! They can splinter and have very sharp points that can damage his insides. Then you are looking at possible surgery. No need to buy the expensive processed bones from the pet store. If you have a local butcher or store with a meat department, get raw bones. I would stick with beef bones. If he gets loose stools, from the marrow, just remove most of that before giving to him. Raw marrow bones are great for a teething puppy, and keeping them busy in their crate. My 14 month old is laying next to me right now with two old ones next to her nose.
> 
> Lack of pigmentation is likely the culprit of the light coloring. I have had a couple puppies born with very tiny white spots on their chest and one or two toes. Both darkened up as they aged. Thought to come through Fero in the bloodline.
> 
> Can you find a better quality kibble where you? You can go to dogfoodanalysis.com to take a look at some options.


Is there a kibble you'd recommend? The higher quality stuff I can think about here is Royal Canin that goes for about 60-70 euros for 15kgs but that site seems to give it a low score especially for the price.

Oh about the ears, I came from work a couple hours ago and went to walk him and to my surprise both ears were up!.... for about 5 minutes. Then they fell down again, but he still stood one ear up from time to time all the way to the tip. So cute!


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## mocamacho92 (Mar 18, 2012)

Darc said:


> First of, hi i'm new to this forum. I had a german shepherd before and it was a pleasure growing up with him, he was my best friend. After Vandog passed away, I got a border collie some 7 years ago. Sadly, 6 months ago my adopted Border Collie died due to cancer. After a while I had the chance to get a GSD and I did.
> 
> Meet Vandog the II, i've had him since he was only 7 or 8 weeks old. He's a big boy now, 12 weeks old, weighting 12 kg and I love him to pieces.
> 
> ...


I know someone who has a pure gsd that looked like yours when she was a baby. As she grew older, she started to develop more black on her back area. Yours could be pure or at least mainly GSD, in my opinion.


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## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

mocamacho92 said:


> I know someone who has a pure gsd that looked like yours when she was a baby. As she grew older, she started to develop more black on her back area. Yours could be pure or at least mainly GSD, in my opinion.


I think sables get their black coat later on at 4 months, so it's a possibility. If he doesn't he's either a purebred fawn or a german with some kind of mix down the bloodline some generations ago.

But i'd love some pictures if you have of that GSD


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

I've seen several Malinois with that coloring. I have no idea how the genetics of coloring would work with a GSD/Malinois cross. If you live outside the US, the chances of your pup being part Malinois would seem greater.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

I googled Malinois and found a site with a lot of puppy photos. Check it out, scroll down and see if the photos look like your dog. (Couldn't make the linky thing work, you will have to copy and paste.)

Belgian Malinois - best working dogs


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I have a dark sable that was almost completely blonde at one point, BUT generally young sables (like 3-5 weeks) are pretty indicative of the color they will be as an adult, so my boy started out dark, then got light, then grew dark again. Did you happen to see your dog before it was 8 weeks? That might give you a better idea of what it will look like later. However that is assume it is a sable.

This is how my dog changed:

7 weeks









2.5 months









3 months (blonde phase)


















3.5 months (getting darker again)









4 months (dark, adult hair in)









Now, 1.5 yrs


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## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

Hm, could be part Malinois. Close enough breed for mistake, even in the case of his littermates?. But his muzzle looks GSD, more squarish than the Belgian, and i've noticing he's getting "red" on his back coat and tail kind of like a "red" sable, kind of like this:





















By the way, I have a question. He weighted 10,5 kgs at 10-11 weeks. He's 12-13 weeks now and I assume he weighs significantly more since he's bigger and seems heavier. Is he the right weight for a GSD puppy? How much will he weight once he's an adult, is there any way to know? My vet told me from 40 to 50 kgs.


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

adorable puppy, id say mix


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Hello Darc in Portugal.
Hope your pup has a long and healthy life . 

here is a real issue , you said "The people I got him from are in no way breeders. Just people that love animals and have two GSD rescues who happened to have a litter"


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Welcome! Your pup is so cute!


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## Diamond.S.Ranch (Jun 21, 2011)

What a cutie! I'm like some others, too hard to tell from those pictures for sure. He sure seems to have some GSD in him, so that's all that matter, haa. Congrats he is a handsome boy.


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## Ashley_M (Feb 19, 2003)

I think he may be a 'fawn' GSD (aka Ay sable). Found this thread too: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breed-standard/145872-what-blonde-sable-red-sable.html


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

Darc, your puppy's weight sounds good for a GSD. My puppy came to me at 12 weeks weighing 14 kgs. your pup is adorable by the way.


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## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

Wow, the long haired 'blonde' sable GSDs are the most striking dog i've seen in a while. I'm eagerly waiting for little Vandog to grow up, I can't wait to see how he turns out.

Eitherway, I love him very much and he's an amazing dog. After all this info and his features i'm convinced he's GSD and time'll tell. He's been getting his ears up lately and it's adorable, his ears are huge and he lifts one at half mast and then finally the tip


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