# Food for a 4 month with Hip Dsyplsia??



## kaiser2010 (May 3, 2010)

Kaiser is a 4 month old pup who has diagnosed with Hip Dyspepsia any recommendations on a good food, currently he is on Fromm he seems to like it doing well any suggestions would be great thx.....

ps: i have considered going RAW but to be honest the possibility of generating Calcium deficiency scares me perhaps when he is full grown i will switch him, i have seen some miracles on some dogs switching over


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think the supplements in your case are going to be pretty important. How bad is the HD? 4 months is a bit early to tell isn't it? Unless it's really bad?

I give Vit C, Fish Oil, Vt E, Springtime Joint Supplements. I saw a marked improvement in Jax. 

Are you supplementing right now?

As long as he is getting bone in his diet he won't have a calcium deficiency. You were feeding him RAW. What happened?


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## kaiser2010 (May 3, 2010)

thx for the quick response Kaiser has always been bowed legged favored his left leg, we monitored it till the vet wanted to do xrays and confirmed what i already knew and feared, i give him salmon oil, purated fruits and veggies,a multivitamin but he doesnt care for them, i mix up his kibble, i actually did start him in RAW but i wanted to make sure he was getting all his vitamins and minerals he needs and give him a complete balanced diet, on raw i wasnt able to provide the variety of foods it requires


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

First, and I'll have to look for the article again, you should get him off carbs. I can't remember the correlation but there was one between HD and carbs.

Second, many of our dogs get the complete balanced diet with RAW so I'm not sure what you would have been missing without looking at your diet. After all the searching I did for Jax, if that was my puppy I would keep him on RAW.

So find him a good quality, grain free kibble. I believe you are going to want to watch the amount of calcium so that his bones grow slower so make sure he's on a large breed puppy food.

I would give 2000 mg of Fish oil with the appropriate Vt E for his size.
Add 2000 mg of Vit C to his diet. Vt C seems to be really important in helping HD. Give him 1000 mg morning and night. Anything his body doesn't need he'll just pee out. Hyaluronic Acid has been shown to help. I haven't given Jax any of that yet. She gets a double dose of Springtime Joint Supplement.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

If you look at the end of the string on Thinking about changing food again, Sable123 posted some information on a food that (according to the article published) all but eliminates hip dysplsia. I personally have never heard of the food and am skeptical but you may want to check into it. Abady is what he posted on.


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## kaiser2010 (May 3, 2010)

thx Jax for the advice never knew Vit C is important of see i thought with the increase of calicum the idea was to strengthn his bones and make him grow faster GSDAAlphamom where can i read this thread or article pls! thank you


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

It's in the sting titled from today 'Thinking about changing food again'. Sorry, I'm brand new and not sure how to link you to it. HD is mostly genetics so not sure if any of the article is true but won't hurt to read it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't buy for a second that a food can eliminate HD, anymore than chiropractic care can prevent it. There are to many variables in HD.

Definitely do NOT increase the calcium to make his bones grow faster. Fast growth has actually been linked to HD. You want to give his bones plenty of time to grow and start the Vit C. Do a google search on the Vt C and HD. Pretty interesting information.

Fish oil is going to help slow down the arthritis that will come with the HD. Did your vet think he was going to need surgery? How bad are they? My vet freaked me out a bit until I took the xrays with me to a chiropractor/vet and he didn't seem to think it was a terrible big deal.

Joint supplements and HA will provide the lubrication for the joints. Also, Vit C helps the body process the joint supplements.

I can tell you that she is moving much better since going to the chiropractor and that will be something you should look in to. It won't cure the HD or prevent it but it will keep him lined up and keep the pressure off his joints from misalignment.


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## kaiser2010 (May 3, 2010)

ok great thx Jax very helpful stuff, in Kaisers case its pretty bad he walk with a limb he said surgery made not help what type of joint supplement just regular over the counter natural supplements?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

How can surgery NOT help HD? I don't get that at all. When he's grown a total hip replacement won't help? Is he a candidate for the other surgery that is mainly for puppies? Did you go to a regular vet or an ortho?

You can use over the counter but it might be easier on you if you get one specifically for a dog. Springtime, Adequan, Cosequin. I give Jax a double dose of the Springtime Joint tablets. 

Do you have a copy of the xrays? Can you get a copy? If it's digital, I would get a copy and post the pics here. Chris Wild (member on here) answered alot of my questions regarding HD. Very knowledgeable!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I heard Esther-C is the best and makes a difference if given early.

Ester-C: Miracle Cure for Hip Dysplasia???

Ester C for Dogs


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

What I don't understand is not doing surgery. 

If I had a 4 month old pup who was already symptomatic with HD...that's very serious and will not get better with diet. Generally when HD is symptomatic you're seeing effects from the arthritis. If a young pup is symptomatic you're usually dealing with a fairly severely deformed joint which probably needs to be restructured surgically. Otherwise the puppy will never have any quality of life because it will only get worse when arthritis does set in. 

I would seriously consider going to another vet, an orthopedic specialist, and getting a Second Opinion. There are some surgical options that are only available when they are puppies and still growing. 

Canine hip dysplasia

Additionally, walking with a limp in a 4 month old puppy would have me thinking Pano...Sometimes vets jump to HD in our breed when it could actually be Pano. If you can get a copy of the Xrays and post them. There are some very knowledgeable people here who can look at them and get a better idea of what you are dealing with.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Be very careful with calcium. Most puppy foods have too much. Excess calcium will build up in the joints as calcium deposits and can make HD worse. Any supplements should NOT have calcium. 

The beauty of raw feeding is that if you feed with the bone, the calcium phosphorous ratio which is all important should be fine. Otherwise you have to dry up and grind egg shells and supplement the proper amount of phosphorous. I am not an expert on raw, but I read that in some book somewhere. Others here could help with more knowledge of raw feeding. 

Just be careful not to overdo calcium. Most breeders suggest adult food so that this is not the case. 

I too am surprised at HD already. But I do not think there is any way that EsterC can hurt. 

Also you do not want the dog to be overweight at any time for healthier hips and joints, and you do not want to keep the pup from exercising normally. Puppies should be able to run and jump and play. If the pup has pano, the pain kind of self limits them so many people choose not to treat them for pain as Rymidal is the drug of choice here and that can have some lasting damage to organs I understand. 

If it is pano, worm him with albon. Sounds crazy doesn't it? Well a group of dogs were being used to test Albon, and many of them actually had Pano. They decided it would not affect the validity of the test and it came out that the albon knocked out the pano in the dogs with no reoccurance. I think that the test was not set up to be a test for pano so not many people have heard of this. 

Anyhow hope your pup is feeling better soon.


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## Tehillah (Jun 21, 2010)

Growth plates do not finish growing and "close" til a pup/dog is close to 18 months of age. I don't understand how a 4 month old pupy has HD! I can understand if the joints are so bad that the hip is basically not in the socket or that things are so bad that there are no hip sockets but HD??? How was this diagnosed? The hips won't be in the socket tightly at this age with most pups. As they age things improve. This is why you don't OFA til they are 2. In many cases hips continue to "improve" after prelims are done at a year of age.

Vit C is good to add period. Studies have shown that dogs with HD did not produce enough of their own Vit C. So adding it may help prevent problems. Also good to add it to pregnant females food while they are in whelp. 

I had someone return a puppy at 4 months of age as according to them and a "professional" person who certifies dogs for SAR told her it had bad hips. (owner wanted to do SAR with him). I won't even go into all the issues/things they did to this poor puppy but I gladly took h back when I saw the condition the poor pup was in. He actually had a form of rickets due to the food it was being fed and conditions he was kept in. I kept him for a few months but had an anxios "new" owner who wanted him for a hearing assistance dog. They knew the pups history and tok him home until some xrays could be done to make sure there were no long term issues or stress fractures with him. To make a long story short he was seen by an orthapedic surgeon at a year and xrays were taken of hips /elbows and spine. ( was redone at age 2). Perfect elbows , no problems with spine and great hips !! 

Not sure what all is going on with your pup but don't loose hope. 

Shelley


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## kaiser2010 (May 3, 2010)

thank you all for the support! sorry i havent responded lately, im going to another vet, i will ask for xray copies, also i started him on regular adult royal canine and he is doin better, i supply daily supplements, i have not given up on him nor he on me, lets say surgery is an option, when is this usually performed once he is full grown or the sooner the better? Its expensive obviously, i was thinking taken him to Colombia (im Colombian) they have some great vets that can perform for much less and just as committed what do you guys think? thanks again


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

One thing I'd like to add, just use plain vitamin C, not EsterC for a young pup. There is calcium added in EsterC and not appropriate for growing pups. You should start with 500mg a day and slowly up the dosage. It can be hard on a pups gut if you dose 2000mg from the get-go.


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## Phay1018 (Nov 4, 2006)

I didn't see this mentioned- but if his hips are indeed bad enough and he's lame and it's most definately hip dysplasia, given his age (young) he'd be a good canidate for a TPO in upcoming months. Something to look into but would need a specialist consult.


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## kaiser2010 (May 3, 2010)

phay what is TPO, he is bowed legged, he sometimes struggles to go up stairs but was reassured he is in no pain, but he can do it and struggles to get up sometimes he seems to be doing better he is 6 months 59lbs


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

And it's not Pano? 
Panosteitis in Young Dogs

Here is info on all the procedures - I think the article is a little tough to read:
Canine hip dysplasia

Another one:
Hip Dysplasia in Dogs: Diagnosis, Treatment, and Prevention

The Yahoo groups orthodogs is a good resource too. 
http://groups._yahoo_.com/group/_orthodogs

GOOD LUCK!
_


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## kaiser2010 (May 3, 2010)

i just bought some Royal Canine breed specific adult dog food, now as far as the calciumn contained, it states it containes 4025 kilograms and 325 per cup, the puppy specific contains 3825 out 343 per cup, so im giving him less calcuimn as i should right? i assuming the total amount contained in the adult food is cause the kibble themselves are bigger right?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Looks like it is recommended for older dogs only - not puppies:
Royal Canin German Shepherd 24™ Adult Dog Food 35 Lb. - Dog Food

You need to look at the calcium phosphorus ratio I believe?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Yes, it's the calcium/phosphorous ratio that's the issue for puppies. And you want to give buffered C and not Ester C until you dog is an adult. At that time you can switch to Ester C. 

Does the OP live in Columbia? If so it will be more challenging to recommend specific supplements. 

There is some evidence that grains make arthritis worse (a secondary condition of HD) so if possible you should switch to grain free. If you are in the U.S. I would try Orijen puppy. 

I've had two dogs with HD now. My first dog was diagnosed at just under a year but showed signs from a very young age. Surgery absolutely will help.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

BowWowMeow said:


> Yes, it's the calcium/phosphorous ratio that's the issue for puppies. .


any studies that point to growth issues for large breed pups have implicated the absolute level of Ca more than the the Ca ratio.


otherwise a food like EVO, with very high Ca levels, would be ok for a growing pup if the ratio was correct.


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## kaiser2010 (May 3, 2010)

ok so what do u guys think about the Royal Canine breed specific? The dog is with me in the USA but just thought i could take him to Colombia where they too have good vets/surgeons that can perform the same surgery for much less


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## Taylor (Apr 7, 2009)

the Royal Canin GSD formula is for dogs 15 months and older, so not a good option for her yet.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

If you are interested in raw but are worried about deficiencies, I'd suggest looking into the raw premixes. These are foods where you get a premade mix which usually contains veggies and/or fruit, vitamins/minerals and supplements and then you add raw meat. That way you will have both a premade formula to be sure it's balanced but also get the benefits of raw.
Examples of some premixes:
Urban Wolf Natural Grain-Free Dog Food
Grain Free Dog Food | Dehydrated Dog Food | Homemade | Preference | The Honest Kitchen
Canine Life: West Coast and Canine Life-Ontario
Natural and Holistic Foods, Treats and Supplements for Dogs - Dr. Harvey's


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## kaiser2010 (May 3, 2010)

thanks Chicago i will consider these next, does anyone know of a good hip dyspsia specialist in the chicago land area, id like to get a second opinion and look into surgery


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## Phay1018 (Nov 4, 2006)

Triple Pelvic Osteotomy (TPO): TPO is a procedure used in young dogs usually less than 10 months of age that have radiographs that show severe hip laxity, but have not developed damage to the joints. The procedure involves surgically breaking the pelvic bones and realigning the femoral head and acetabulum restoring the weight-bearing surface area and correcting femoral head subluxation. This is a major surgery and is expensive, but the surgery has been very successful on animals that meet the requirements.


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