# Smaller size GSD lines?



## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

Do you know of any working lines known to produce generally smaller dogs?


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

No.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

yes. Geefacker --


----------



## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

What's your definition of small? 
Some people consider 65-70 lb females to be small and in reality they are at the large end of the standard...so it depends on whether you're thinking small in relation to the standard or in relation to your average oversized GSD...


----------



## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Erri z Blatenskeho zamku has, I believe, consistently thrown small. I was told it comes through his sire Orry but not sure.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I have frequently seen small to medium size (in relation to the standard) out of Falk vd Wolfen lines.


----------



## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

carmspack said:


> yes. Geefacker --


Ahh, I had forgotten all about this line. You don't hear about them very often. Did you ever end up incorporating any Geefacker into your breeding program?


----------



## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

phgsd said:


> What's your definition of small?
> Some people consider 65-70 lb females to be small and in reality they are at the large end of the standard...so it depends on whether you're thinking small in relation to the standard or in relation to your average oversized GSD...


65 lbs small ? Yeesh, I was thinking more along the lines of 45 lbs. I'm talking actually small with respect to the standard. Like 21 inches small for a female. Certainly not ideal from a breeding perspective as far as what to aim for, but perhaps something that might be produced from time to time.

I got into a talk with a mal friend this weekend about GSDs, agility and SAR and something that came up was how most of the working GSDs we see tend to the larger side.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

That is why said no. To me, small is about 40 pounds.


----------



## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

22 inches on the toes and under 55 pounds for the girls.....


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Hope they are not going for too small. Saw an Aussie the size of a Pomeranian, adult dog and "purebred" .


----------



## BoTaBe (May 2, 2013)

carmspack said:


> yes. Geefacker --


Well, I own one and know several others. All I (and most of the other handlers) can say: never again!

It's right, they're all rather small and I love my dog to death, but no...


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

LuvWorkingGSDs said:


> 65 lbs small ? Yeesh, I was thinking more along the lines of 45 lbs. I'm talking actually small with respect to the standard. Like 21 inches small for a female.


I have had a couple pups that small, one going back on the Falk lines that I mentioned through her sire, but they are anomalies and while they come from litters where none of the dogs were huge, the size you're talking about is very bottom of the breed standard and not common. I'm not aware of any lines that regularly produce females that tiny.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Linebreeding on Tom L. May produce small males.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

What is considered a small male?


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would say 24" or under, under 70lbs. Nikon is 69-73lbs (depending on whether he's prepping for a tournament or a show) and 24.5" and he was called "medium size" by a judge who loves big dogs and will give V ratings and KKL1s to large/oversize dogs.


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Wow, there's a switch--someone who doesn't want an *oversize* GSD; in fact, the opposite of that?  How refreshing! Wouldn't it be fun if we could get into arguments about *undersize* GSDs? 

I can hear the people now as you walk a 45 lb. GSD down the street: "Is that a mini-German Shepherd? Are you breeding them? Can I buy one?"  As it is, people think that a 60 lb. GSD is "small" and fret that their puppy is only 38 lb. at 16 weeks.

Sorry I can't be more helpful about bloodlines, etc. that produce smaller dogs. Personally, I too like a more compact dog.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

My 23" and 60lbs female considered large when shown [SV].

I think personally that I would consider that medium size. Anything smaller than that would be considered "small" to me. I prefer a smaller dog, either male or female (especially females).


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Liesje said:


> I would say 24" or under, under 70lbs.


That would qualify Hans, so far :wub:

He is 24" and hovers around 67 pounds.


His sire was (and still is, I suppose) around 72, so I don't see my boy getting much bigger. And I am overjoyed to have that size of a dog.


----------



## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Hope they are not going for too small. Saw an Aussie the size of a Pomeranian, adult dog and "purebred" .


They are called "mini" aussie's...like half the size of an average sized aussie


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Freestep said:


> I can hear the people now as you walk a 45 lb. GSD down the street: "Is that a mini-German Shepherd? Are you breeding them? Can I buy one?"


If I ever hear of a Chiperd or a Shepperanian, I will shoot myself :crazy:


----------



## OrangeJillius (May 29, 2013)

Freestep said:


> Wow, there's a switch--someone who doesn't want an *oversize* GSD; in fact, the opposite of that?  How refreshing! Wouldn't it be fun if we could get into arguments about *undersize* GSDs?
> 
> I can hear the people now as you walk a 45 lb. GSD down the street: "Is that a mini-German Shepherd? Are you breeding them? Can I buy one?"  As it is, people think that a 60 lb. GSD is "small" and fret that their puppy is only 38 lb. at 16 weeks.
> 
> Sorry I can't be more helpful about bloodlines, etc. that produce smaller dogs. Personally, I too like a more compact dog.



My trainer at my puppy/basic obedience class referred to my girl as a "mini" shepherd (as a joke because the other GSD in the class was roughly the same age and HUGE next to my gal). Lots of people who see her also ask if she is a mini gsd. She is from a rescue so may not be pure, but currently she is 6 months old (almost 7), 22 inches tall and 45 pounds.


----------



## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I really do love the smaller GSDs. 

So far the only (good) breeder I've found who intentionally seems to be aiming for a smaller size overall is Dizzy Dogs, which is not surprising given the focus on agility. And I do like their dogs quite a bit, at least the ones I've seen.


----------



## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Freestep said:


> Wow, there's a switch--someone who doesn't want an *oversize* GSD; in fact, the opposite of that?  How refreshing! Wouldn't it be fun if we could get into arguments about *undersize* GSDs?
> 
> I can hear the people now as you walk a 45 lb. GSD down the street: "Is that a mini-German Shepherd? Are you breeding them? Can I buy one?"  As it is, people think that a 60 lb. GSD is "small" and fret that their puppy is only 38 lb. at 16 weeks.
> 
> Sorry I can't be more helpful about bloodlines, etc. that produce smaller dogs. Personally, I too like a more compact dog.


Our first dog, some 28 years ago, was what we thought was a GSD mix (Vet thought shep/whippet). I have no idea how tall she was, but it wasn't very tall and she weighed around 40-45 lbs. She looked exactly like a Black and Tan GSD (wish I had a digital pic). Everyone asked us if she was a "mini" Shepherd. We would say yup and walk on. Who knows, after reading this thread maybe she was just a "small" pure GSD. She was my "heart" dog. 
I am so used to seeing very large male GSD's that I sometimes think my girl is small. She's not. She's 59 lbs. @ 8 mo. She just has fine features probably attributed to ASL in her unknown bloodline. And, I think she appears smaller than she is because she is a short coat that hasn't developed an undercoat yet. 
I like the smaller more compact shepherds I come across. Easier to share the bed with....lol!


----------



## BoTaBe (May 2, 2013)

One of the best GSDs ever when it comes to height/weight:

Reni vom Strothetal ? working-dog

The breeder did so many repetitions with the same parents because of this dog but it wasn't really successful - unfortunately...

You can see the tendency here to create smaller dogs. There are quite a few, good, small dogs, especially females.

My male is 24'' and 67lb, I think it's perfect!


----------



## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

BoTaBe said:


> Well, I own one and know several others. All I (and most of the other handlers) can say: never again!
> 
> It's right, they're all rather small and I love my dog to death, but no...


I am curious about why you say never again?


----------



## BoTaBe (May 2, 2013)

Rangers_mom said:


> I am curious about why you say never again?


Most of them just aren't "everyday life" dogs because they either have huge problems with their environment and/or other dogs.
Additionally this line isn't the healthiest one, lot of HD, ED, cardiac problems etc.
Not sure if I'm allowed to go into greater detail here, if you're interested just send me a PM!


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Piper'sgrl said:


> They are called "mini" aussie's...like half the size of an average sized aussie


It was actually half the size of a mini Aussie. Crazy.
I find it troubling to breed big into bigger and small into smaller.


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> It was actually half the size of a mini Aussie. Crazy.
> I find it troubling to breed big into bigger and small into smaller.


There is the "toy" Aussie which is tiny, like the size of a small sheltie. I groom a couple of them. One of which has the worst overbite I have EVER seen--she looks like Wile E. Coyote.

I too am disturbed by the American trend to breed for extremes. The big dogs must be HUGE dogs and the small dogs must be TINY dogs. I don't get it. Both extremes suffer.


----------

