# Shwoing working dogs?



## wolfy dog

I was talking to several competitors at an agilty trials who had nice (AKC and intact) working line GSDs about the question if it would be a good idea to enter our dogs in a conformation show. Not to win of course, but to educate the public about the various lines in the GSD breed. One lady said that "you had to have thick skin", which is OK with me. Would it be disrespectful?
Has anyone ever done this? And if so, how did that go? Feedback, comments you got?


----------



## Emoore

I've seen working line dogs in UKC shows.


----------



## martemchik

It's donating money to the club, and just make sure you know what you're doing. Don't make a joke of the show because you can't handle your dog properly in the show ring and you don't know how to stack your dog or what exactly will be expected of you in the ring.

It's not disrespectful to enter working lines. No one cares. The people that go to shows, know what a working line shepherd is. You're not educating anyone by entering your dog. The judges and other competitors know as well. The people that go to dog shows aren't "the public." They're dog people.


----------



## Kaimeju

A friend of mine shows her working line in UKC shows and plans to get his championship. She is doing it for her own education in conformation and does take it seriously. I don't know that it would really help to educate people about the breed that much- the people who are showing in conformation chose their dogs out of the many kinds of shepherd available for a reason. I think the public will find out about lines of GSD through their own inquiry and be attracted to the venues that have working lines more commonly. The first one I ever saw in person was at an obedience trial (well, I had seen LE demo dogs but that is slightly different).


----------



## N Smith

My male has shown in both CKC and AKC shows - hasn't gotten a single point in AKC, but has 6 points towards his Canadian CH. after just one weekend!! He even took over some very accomplished dogs and placed Group 2, three Times, Group 3, twice,

I prepped his coat starting 8 weeks in advance and learned to gait and handle him. 

Like someone else said, go to the show to educate, but follow the rules, be respectful and show your dog the best you can.

He is a very moderate dog, 72 lbs and SOLID BLACK - everything was against him, but I think the judges know a powerful representative when they see one, even if they don't always put them up.


----------



## huntergreen

martemchik said:


> It's donating money to the club, and just make sure you know what you're doing. Don't make a joke of the show because you can't handle your dog properly in the show ring and you don't know how to stack your dog or what exactly will be expected of you in the ring.
> 
> It's not disrespectful to enter working lines. No one cares. The people that go to shows, know what a working line shepherd is. You're not educating anyone by entering your dog. The judges and other competitors know as well. The people that go to dog shows aren't "the public." They're dog people.


good post. i have seen three wl gsd over the years entered at a yearly dog show near me. each time i am stunned at what the jude chooses as a winner. i dont believe the akc and their judges like working line gsds. imho, its all politics.


----------



## llombardo

martemchik said:


> It's not disrespectful to enter working lines. No one cares. The people that go to shows, know what a working line shepherd is. You're not educating anyone by entering your dog. The judges and other competitors know as well. The people that go to dog shows aren't "the public." They're dog people.


I don't think this is true. Regular people looking for dogs go to shows to see different breeds all the time. People tell people to go to show or go clubs for this purpose all the time. So it could be an educational thing for som.


----------



## martemchik

llombardo said:


> I don't think this is true. Regular people looking for dogs go to shows to see different breeds all the time. People tell people to go to show or go clubs for this purpose all the time. So it could be an educational thing for som.



How many dog shows have you gone to and shown your dog in?

I have been to dozens of dog shows, there was never a "regular" person there. Everyone there was either a competitor, or just someone who has an affiliation with the club and has dogs. If there are regular people there, there is a very small amount of them there. And in that case, when they see the one working dog at the back of the line of all the show dogs, all it will do is lead them to think that that one is deformed in some way. It's not like you can talk and explain to people why the dog is the way it is.

Maybe at shows like Westminster and other national shows there are other people, but there aren't at your local AKC or UKC trial. It's just not a very "public friendly" event.


----------



## llombardo

martemchik said:


> How many dog shows have you gone to and shown your dog in?
> 
> I have been to dozens of dog shows, there was never a "regular" person there. Everyone there was either a competitor, or just someone who has an affiliation with the club and has dogs. If there are regular people there, there is a very small amount of them there. And in that case, when they see the one working dog at the back of the line of all the show dogs, all it will do is lead them to think that that one is deformed in some way. It's not like you can talk and explain to people why the dog is the way it is.
> 
> Maybe at shows like Westminster and other national shows there are other people, but there aren't at your local AKC or UKC trial. It's just not a very "public friendly" event.


I actually have gone to several local dog shows and I'm not showing nor involved with any clubs in any way.


----------



## Lykoz

martemchik said:


> It's donating money to the club, and just make sure you know what you're doing. Don't make a joke of the show because you can't handle your dog properly in the show ring and you don't know how to stack your dog or what exactly will be expected of you in the ring.
> 
> It's not disrespectful to enter working lines. No one cares. The people that go to shows, know what a working line shepherd is. You're not educating anyone by entering your dog. The judges and other competitors know as well. The people that go to dog shows aren't "the public." They're dog people.


Who made you the authority on dog shows? If somebody wants to have fun with it and get involved it is perfectly ok.

Anyone can do it irrelevant of experience level.
It's not always a competition.
Weather the handler/dog does well or not and what Their proficiency level is, is irrelevant!

Some people involved, are the 'general public'.


----------



## martemchik

And you were there with dozens of people that don't own dogs?

Last I checked you have about a dozen dogs yourself and are clearly not someone that would be going to educate yourself on what breed of dog to get.

Also, how does someone figure out if a breed is right for them just by going to a conformation show? Pick the one that looks best? Sounds like a great way to make a choice of breed...


----------



## Lykoz

llombardo said:


> I actually have gone to several local dog shows and I'm not showing nor involved with any clubs in any way.


Great point!


----------



## Lykoz

martemchik said:


> And you were there with dozens of people that don't own dogs?
> 
> Last I checked you have about a dozen dogs yourself and are clearly not someone that would be going to educate yourself on what breed of dog to get.
> 
> Also, how does someone figure out if a breed is right for them just by going to a conformation show? Pick the one that looks best? Sounds like a great way to make a choice of breed...


Maybe you should set up a survey for the crowd, family, friends, and others in attendance and ask them how many have dogs and how many know the difference between a show and Wl..

You might be surprised.

Seeing one next to showlines will educate many in the crowd.

Would be wonderful to see them shown side by side irrelevant of results, and discuss differences with onlookers.


----------



## martemchik

Considering I've been to dog shows lykoz, and have shown my WL male all the way through a UKC championship (WOAH!) I know exactly how many people know what a WL shepherd is. Trust me, people will come up to you and comment about what kind of a dog you have. There are no friends, family, others in attendance in the crowd. These aren't grand events. They are pretty boring and time consuming for anyone that isn't a dog person or has some sort of interest in the show. Most people, will show their dogs, and then take a break for hours until all the breeds are done. The people that own dogs rarely watch the other breeds compete unless they're friends with one of the other competitors and are just watching to support them. At the UKC shows I've gone to...there is rarely even room for anyone but the competitors to be in the building. They are not very well scheduled, so you can't just show up for an hour expecting to see breeds X, Y, and Z. In order to see what you might want to see, you'd probably send up being there for hours, just for the 10 minutes it takes a judge to take a look at the breed or breeds you're interested in.

I've also helped at plenty of AKC shows where I would show my dog in the obedience ring, and EVERY SINGLE American Show Line owner, knew exactly what a WL shepherd was. The people that attend dog shows, and are active in the breed, know what goes on. For you guys to think that it's only WL people that for some reason know about the show side of things and not the other way around is pretty comical.

I'd be surprised if you have attended even a SINGLE all breed dog show in your life. Not by the amount of people that know what a WL GSD is. But considering you just wrote "would be wonderful to see them shown...and DISCUSS differences with onlookers" you've clearly never been to one as this never happens. No one hands you a microphone and lets you talk about your dog.


----------



## SuperG

I attend a few dog shows a year and have no affiliation or dog in the hunt. I do certainly feel the "outsider" but it's of no concern....most people there seem to have much more of a connection to the event than simply a spectator. I think if a working lines GSD was competing in an AKC conformation show ring, it probably wouldn't do very well but I have never seen one competing at the shows I have been to...except in obedience competitions.

I'm sure you could enter most any pedigreed dog if you choose....it's not like they will turn your money down.


SuperG


----------



## Lykoz

martemchik said:


> Considering I've been to dog shows lykoz, and have shown my WL male all the way through a UKC championship (WOAH!) I know exactly how many people know what a WL shepherd is. Trust me, people will come up to you and comment about what kind of a dog you have. There are no friends, family, others in attendance in the crowd. These aren't grand events. They are pretty boring and time consuming for anyone that isn't a dog person or has some sort of interest in the show. Most people, will show their dogs, and then take a break for hours until all the breeds are done. The people that own dogs rarely watch the other breeds compete unless they're friends with one of the other competitors and are just watching to support them. At the UKC shows I've gone to...there is rarely even room for anyone but the competitors to be in the building. They are not very well scheduled, so you can't just show up for an hour expecting to see breeds X, Y, and Z. In order to see what you might want to see, you'd probably send up being there for hours, just for the 10 minutes it takes a judge to take a look at the breed or breeds you're interested in.
> 
> I've also helped at plenty of AKC shows where I would show my dog in the obedience ring, and EVERY SINGLE American Show Line owner, knew exactly what a WL shepherd was. The people that attend dog shows, and are active in the breed, know what goes on. For you guys to think that it's only WL people that for some reason know about the show side of things and not the other way around is pretty comical.
> 
> I'd be surprised if you have attended even a SINGLE all breed dog show in your life. Not by the amount of people that know what a WL GSD is. But considering you just wrote "would be wonderful to see them shown...and DISCUSS differences with onlookers" you've clearly never been to one as this never happens. No one hands you a microphone and lets you talk about your dog.


Did you speak to all those people in the crowd? For example here?






Ive been to shows over this side, with my younger sister.. (she certainly does not know the difference...)
Many people don't really know the difference. Much smaller scale in most places. Obviously less happening, and lower levels... But that does not indicate more 'knowledge'...

Please educate yourself. And dont speak from others point of view.

Its like thinking everyone who goes to a UFC event knows what BJJ is.. and what is happening on the ground.. Many simply do not...

Some people just want a day out, to watch dogs, or family members getting involved.
I could argue that you are also a little confused by the dog world. Especially when you used to go.


----------



## martemchik

I guess you decided to skip the part where I actually pointed out that at shows like WESTMINSTER there are probably others in the crowd, but at small regional shows there aren't. This is the same thing you decided to do when I said "every breed has a purpose except the toy group" and then went on a rampage naming every single TOY GROUP dog trying to show me how those dogs don't have a working purpose.

Read buddy, I know English isn't that hard of a language.

BTW...you can't just enter your dog at Westminster, you have to qualify, so it's no where near the "normal dog show." Don't know when the last regular local dog show was nationally televised and covered by ESPN.


----------



## Lykoz

martemchik said:


> I guess you decided to skip the part where I actually pointed out that at shows like WESTMINSTER there are probably others in the crowd, but at small regional shows there aren't. This is the same thing you decided to do when I said "every breed has a purpose except the toy group" and then went on a rampage naming every single TOY GROUP dog trying to show me how those dogs don't have a working purpose.
> 
> Read buddy, I know English isn't that hard of a language.
> 
> BTW...you can't just enter your dog at Westminster, you have to qualify, so it's no where near the "normal dog show." Don't know when the last regular local dog show was nationally televised and covered by ESPN.


Hahaha lol....

Smaller shows have casual onlookers all the time.
At West you need to pay for a more expensive ticket.
You cant argue that. No matter how ignorant you are.

And its not full of 'pro's' involved. Or people who are pro-working line...
In fact the very that many Show lines dont require working titles, shows a natural inclination for them being somewhat in a 'black hole', and blissful ignorance to other lines sometimes.

In a small country like mine, often there are various dogs on show.. People just come for a day out.
Sometimes there is even a police dog demonstration after.. Wonderful way to showcase working lines.. Sometimes not.. People are always asking the difference in look etc.


----------



## Steve Strom

martemchik said:


> How many dog shows have you gone to and shown your dog in?
> 
> I have been to dozens of dog shows, there was never a "regular" person there. Everyone there was either a competitor, or just someone who has an affiliation with the club and has dogs. If there are regular people there, there is a very small amount of them there. And in that case, when they see the one working dog at the back of the line of all the show dogs, all it will do is lead them to think that that one is deformed in some way. It's not like you can talk and explain to people why the dog is the way it is.
> 
> Maybe at shows like Westminster and other national shows there are other people, but there aren't at your local AKC or UKC trial. It's just not a very "public friendly" event.


Do you mean specifically German Shepherd club shows? I've shown my Rotts in a lot more then dozens of all breed shows or specialties in conjunction with all breed shows, there's always public there. Families looking for dogs, etc.. good sized crowds even in smaller shows. I've always had people asking me questions and wanting to meet my dogs.

It's not Westminster, but we have a pretty big bench show out here at the Cow Palace every year, the whole idea is for people to meet dogs and breeders. Maybe just because of the area?


----------



## martemchik

I've done just specialty shows, but I've also been to all breed shows, which are at public/county parks and there's really no one there. People that have already gone out to the park are there and might take a look or two, but no one that's setting up chairs and watching the whole show.

The advertising usually sucks, IMO. I've actually gone to the park with my dog to train (I track there) and ran into the show being on that field. I had no idea that the local kennel club was even putting the show on, and I'm on their email list...

I'm not trying to deter someone from showing their dog, but it's a $30+ entry fee usually and you really won't get to "educate" anyone IMO. You run around the ring, there isn't a demonstration of your dogs working ability over the other dog's ability. It's a conformation show...the only thing they get to see is what the dogs look like. If you want people to make their decision based on what the dogs look like...they'll probably end up going with the winning dog anyways (that's what the all powerful and knowledgeable judge picked).

I would think that obedience and more "working" venue is the way to show people that a WL is in some way superior (if that's your goal). When I attend the local specialty show, enter my dog in the obedience side of things, and he's clearly above and beyond what any of the show dogs are doing, that's how I can get people to notice that there is something else out there. I just don't think that a conformation show, where you really aren't allowed to discuss things, and are more than likely going to lose, is the way to educate someone on the different lines of our breed.


----------



## Steve Strom

Yeah, I've seen different breed clubs or fun matches that are at a park with no real interest in having people come out to watch. But the AKC shows are usually at fairgrounds all around here and still bring in a fair amount of people. They still seem to stress appealing to the public.


----------



## martemchik

Lykoz said:


> And its not full of 'pro's' involved. Or people who are pro-working line...
> In fact the very that many Show lines dont require working titles, shows a natural inclination for them being somewhat in a 'black hole', and blissful ignorance to other lines sometimes.


Since you've never really been involved in the dog world on this side of the pond...you can't make that statement. Most people going to dog shows are PROFESSIONALS. People going for a championship, have breeding plans in mind. It might not be a "I will make a living off of it" but it's definitely a...if I get this, I'll get a few litters or stud fees from this. Showing a dog to a high level, is not a part time job.

The people that are competing at the highest levels...are usually professionals and make a living off of those animals. You don't get to Westminster by dabbling in the sport and not getting out there and showing your animals. Kent Boyles is in my club. He's a professional. That's why his dog won BOB at Westminster this year. Years of work and dedication to the breed got him to where he is. Btw...he also breeds German show lines, and has given me a critique of my dog and shown me a few things about handling a dog in the ring.

So trust me...99% of the people that have a GSD entered in an AKC show, or even an SV show, know exactly what a WL is.


----------



## martemchik

I remember when I first got onto this forum there were a group of people that were planning on entering a group of WL shepherds into a show. The idea was to overwhelm and make sure that the WL is the majority of the entry. Out of the group, one or two ended up following through with it after realizing what the cost of the idea would be (travel, hotel, entry) and then knowing that it's really not going to make any kind of real dent in the show.

Another fun fact...my bitch's breeder showed her V-rated WL bitch at an all-breed AKC show once. She was the ONLY German Shepherd entered, so the assumption would be that you win the breed and go on to the group. The first day, the judge did hand her the first place ribbon and allowed her to also show in group. The second day, a different judge gave her the SECOND place ribbon to make sure she wouldn't go on into the group. That's right...she got SECOND out of ONE dog. The judge chose to make sure that the dog wasn't awarded any points and not allowed to go onto the next stage.


----------



## Lykoz

martemchik said:


> Since you've never really been involved in the dog world on this side of the pond...you can't make that statement. Most people going to dog shows are PROFESSIONALS. People going for a championship, have breeding plans in mind. It might not be a "I will make a living off of it" but it's definitely a...if I get this, I'll get a few litters or stud fees from this. Showing a dog to a high level, is not a part time job.
> 
> The people that are competing at the highest levels...are usually professionals and make a living off of those animals. You don't get to Westminster by dabbling in the sport and not getting out there and showing your animals. Kent Boyles is in my club. He's a professional. That's why his dog won BOB at Westminster this year. Years of work and dedication to the breed got him to where he is. Btw...he also breeds German show lines, and has given me a critique of my dog and shown me a few things about handling a dog in the ring.
> 
> So trust me...99% of the people that have a GSD entered in an AKC show, or even an SV show, know exactly what a WL is.


We are talking about the onlookers big boy.
Us amatuers have no place with you professionals. 
 We just want to look at the dogies 

This MMA fan reminds me of Somebody in the dog world...
Fans that dont compete, have more sense than this guy


----------



## martemchik

We're discussing dog shows not MMA. Lets stick to the subject. I'm really sick and tired of your random, super far reaching, comparisons of one thing to another. You can basically do what you do with anything to prove a point, and it really doesn't make any sense to do so.

What I'm telling you is that by percentage, the "public" is not that big of a portion of the crowd.

Here's an idiotic one for you...if you go to an NBA basketball game, there will for sure be people in the crowd that are not NBA fans and probably some that don't even understand the game. But I guarantee that the majority, and a super high percentage of the people will be fans and will understand how the game works. So of course there are a few people at dogs shows that don't know anything about dogs, but they are super few and far in between. And a dog show...a conformation show...is not the place to be learning about breeds and temperaments, it won't get you very far. Random people, don't just search out AKC conformation shows and decide to spend a whole day there. Especially when most start at like 8 or 9 in the morning.


----------



## llombardo

martemchik said:


> And you were there with dozens of people that don't own dogs?
> 
> Last I checked you have about a dozen dogs yourself and are clearly not someone that would be going to educate yourself on what breed of dog to get.
> 
> Also, how does someone figure out if a breed is right for them just by going to a conformation show? Pick the one that looks best? Sounds like a great way to make a choice of breed...


It's something I enjoy doing. Is there a problem with that? I take the kids and groups of us go. I don't go to educate myself but I'm sure other people might. 

Oh I'm sorry I forgot, it's much easier to go to see a dog work on the field and pick out the dog with the best bite, that is a good way to pick one too, don't you think?


----------



## Lykoz

martemchik said:


> We're discussing dog shows not MMA. Lets stick to the subject. I'm really sick and tired of your random, super far reaching, comparisons of one thing to another. You can basically do what you do with anything to prove a point, and it really doesn't make any sense to do so.
> 
> What I'm telling you is that by percentage, the "public" is not that big of a portion of the crowd.
> 
> Here's an idiotic one for you...if you go to an NBA basketball game, there will for sure be people in the crowd that are not NBA fans and probably some that don't even understand the game. But I guarantee that the majority, and a super high percentage of the people will be fans and will understand how the game works. So of course there are a few people at dogs shows that don't know anything about dogs, but they are super few and far in between. And a dog show...a conformation show...is not the place to be learning about breeds and temperaments, it won't get you very far. Random people, don't just search out AKC conformation shows and decide to spend a whole day there. Especially when most start at like 8 or 9 in the morning.


Mr professional... Is it ok for me to just go and see the dogies?
Is there a test for entry? 

Can I ask questions? Or is that forbidden too?
God forbid I dont get very far watching the doggies..


----------



## martemchik

llombardo said:


> It's something I enjoy doing. Is there a problem with that? I take the kids and groups of us go. I don't go to educate myself but I'm sure other people might.
> 
> Oh I'm sorry I forgot, it's much easier to go to see a dog work on the field and pick out the dog with the best bite, that is a good way to pick one too, don't you think?


How many of your dogs (all breeds) did you get from a breeder that you met/asked questions of at a dog show?


----------



## martemchik

Lykoz said:


> Mr professional... Is it ok for me to just go and see the dogies?
> Is there a test for entry?
> 
> Can I ask questions? Or is that forbidden too?
> God forbid I dont get very far watching the doggies..



This isn't about you going...I'm focused more about what entering a WL dog in a conformation show will do.

I'm not here to tell the OP not to do it. But the idea that you're going to "educate" some people by entering a single dog in a dog show is comical to me.

The "small" shows I've been to have 700-800 dogs (all breeds) entered. Do you think your ONE dog will make a difference? Sure, you might get lucky and someone will be there that's thinking about a GSD, they'll ask you some questions. But it’s not the likeliest thing to happen when you consider that there just aren’t that many people there, there are hundreds of dog breeds, and NOT EVERYONE IS LOOKING FOR A GSD. On top of that…usually there are multiple rings running at the same time. So the spectators have to choose the breed they want to see. That’s my point…the chances of you “educating” someone, is very little compared to the cost of entering the show IMO.

The OP can do with their money whatever they want. But when answering the OP’s question, IMO, it’s a waste of money and there is very little to gain. If it’s something they’re doing for fun…go nuts. I’m not going to tell you not to do something with your dog. It’s a wonderful experience and you’ll learn a lot. This is why I told OP to learn what is expected first, learn to handle their dog, and not look like they’re completely lost out there. If you’re going to make a statement, make the right one. Don’t make people think, “what is that person with that strange looking dog doing out there?” As easy as it looks to handle a dog in conformation, it really isn’t, and if you’re going to do it, you should do it right.

This is based on real life, personal experience at American dog shows. I’ve had my boy in plenty of them, never once has anyone asked me a question about him, the only comments I’ve gotten have been from people that “like WL structure more than ASL structure.” So they ALREADY KNOW the difference.


----------



## martemchik

Also...to the two people arguing with me that tons "regular people" go to dog shows by trying to tell me how they've gone to dog shows...

I'm pretty certain that anyone that sits on an internet dog forum, and averages more than 7 posts a day on that dog forum, is not just an "average" person that has some interest in dogs. So talking about how both of you have attended dog shows doesn't really prove that "regular people" go to dog shows and ask tons of questions. It's clear that both of you have a much higher interest in dogs than most.


----------



## Lykoz

martemchik said:


> This isn't about you going...I'm focused more about what entering a WL dog in a conformation show will do.
> 
> I'm not here to tell the OP not to do it. But the idea that you're going to "educate" some people by entering a single dog in a dog show is comical to me.
> 
> The "small" shows I've been to have 700-800 dogs (all breeds) entered. Do you think your ONE dog will make a difference? Sure, you might get lucky and someone will be there that's thinking about a GSD, they'll ask you some questions. But it’s not the likeliest thing to happen when you consider that there just aren’t that many people there, there are hundreds of dog breeds, and NOT EVERYONE IS LOOKING FOR A GSD. On top of that…usually there are multiple rings running at the same time. So the spectators have to choose the breed they want to see. That’s my point…the chances of you “educating” someone, is very little compared to the cost of entering the show IMO.
> 
> The OP can do with their money whatever they want. But when answering the OP’s question, IMO, it’s a waste of money and there is very little to gain. If it’s something they’re doing for fun…go nuts. I’m not going to tell you not to do something with your dog. It’s a wonderful experience and you’ll learn a lot. This is why I told OP to learn what is expected first, learn to handle their dog, and not look like they’re completely lost out there. If you’re going to make a statement, make the right one. Don’t make people think, “what is that person with that strange looking dog doing out there?” As easy as it looks to handle a dog in conformation, it really isn’t, and if you’re going to do it, you should do it right.
> 
> This is based on real life, personal experience at American dog shows. I’ve had my boy in plenty of them, never once has anyone asked me a question about him, the only comments I’ve gotten have been from people that “like WL structure more than ASL structure.” So they ALREADY KNOW the difference.


Mr Professional thanks for allowing me to come to the doggie show ...

Why does that one dog look different to the rest?
I dont understand?
Is it a mix breed? 
I dont think it is a real GSD...
Real GSD's have lower hips and they look different.


----------



## llombardo

martemchik said:


> How many of your dogs (all breeds) did you get from a breeder that you met/asked questions of at a dog show?


I prefer to rescue so I ask no questions, but I have seen others do so. 


What is the difference between someone going to a dog show or to a IPO trial or even out to the field to watch? It's the same concept. They can see a dog work and ask about it or see a dog show and ask about it. People have to go somewhere to learn. The people at dog shows are willing to answer questions more willingly then at a trial, that I have witnessed firsthand. 

I just don't understand how you can still argue that people don't go to these shows, when multiple people have stated they go. It's not unusual and very common where I'm at.


----------



## martemchik

The question wasn't whether spectators should go or not...it was is it worth it to enter a WL dog to "educate" the public.

My opinion is that there isn't enough of a public there to educate. IMO, a $30 entry fee isn't worth the chance that someone might ask me a question and I'll have 5 minutes to explain to them the difference between my WL and the SL.

That's what the OP asked...I answered.

It's funny...I've ACTUALLY ENTERED MY DOG in shows. And yet I have two people that have only attended arguing with me over if it was worth it or not.

Enter your dog, do something with your dog, then talk. Don't tell me about your experience as a spectator when the question is about being one of the people in the ring.


----------



## wolfy dog

You can continue the bickering to find out who is "right" but I have enough input now regarding my question. I 'll pass on this idea of spending money on an AKC show and rather spend that time with her to watch the show for socializing purposes. I assume I'll get more questions/comments that way as well.


----------



## Lykoz

martemchik said:


> The question wasn't whether spectators should go or not...it was is it worth it to enter a WL dog to "educate" the public.
> 
> My opinion is that there isn't enough of a public there to educate. IMO, a $30 entry fee isn't worth the chance that someone might ask me a question and I'll have 5 minutes to explain to them the difference between my WL and the SL.
> 
> That's what the OP asked...I answered.
> 
> It's funny...I've ACTUALLY ENTERED MY DOG in shows. And yet I have two people that have only attended arguing with me over if it was worth it or not.
> 
> Enter your dog, do something with your dog, then talk. Don't tell me about your experience as a spectator when the question is about being one of the people in the ring.


Dont cut the question in half... She talked about being a part of the show, and educating people on working lines... 

The two go hand in hand. Who would she educate if not the spectators? It is nice for a spectator to see the different lines of GSD. I could argue that there would also be some nice discussions with other competitors.. But I wont dare enter in your realm of expertise. 
Basic comprehension and understanding of context.
You would think there was more than one language to master in the USA...

Είναι τα αγγλικα η προτη σας γλώσσα;


----------



## martemchik

wolfy dog said:


> You can continue the bickering to find out who is "right" but I have enough input now regarding my question. I 'll pass on this idea of spending money on an AKC show and rather spend that time with her to watch the show for socializing purposes. I assume I'll get more questions/comments that way as well.


Absolutely!!! That's a wonderful idea. Bring your dog out, most people won't question if you're entered or not. And you'll be able to relax, enjoy the show, learn about it, and you'll see for yourself how many people will actually talk to you about your dog.


----------



## Lykoz

wolfy dog said:


> You can continue the bickering to find out who is "right" but I have enough input now regarding my question. I 'll pass on this idea of spending money on an AKC show and rather spend that time with her to watch the show for socializing purposes. I assume I'll get more questions/comments that way as well.


Yep wonderful idea 

Keep us updated on the type of questions people ask you.


----------



## wolfy dog

Thank you Mart and Lykoz for ending on a peaceful note .
Gonna take Deja outside for some playtime! Yoohoo, have a great enjoyable, dog-filled day.


----------



## llombardo

If dogs aren't entered they can't go to these shows(by me anyway) so how does one educate someone if the dog isn't present? Just wondering?


----------



## martemchik

llombardo said:


> If dogs aren't entered they can't go to these shows(by me anyway) so how does one educate someone if the dog isn't present? Just wondering?


There's usually no way to know if the dog is entered or it isn't entered. I've never once seen anyone questioned on if their dogs are entered or not. If you don't openly come up to a judge or a steward, or anyone that's involved in the show and just plain out say "my dog isn't entered" no one will question it. Not like there are special badges required to be on show grounds.

I've literally walked through a dog show, with my dog soaking wet from swimming in the lake that was right there, and no one said a single thing. I sat down and watched the GSDs with my boy at my side.


----------



## dogfaeries

martemchik said:


> How many dog shows have you gone to and shown your dog in?
> 
> I have been to dozens of dog shows, there was never a "regular" person there. Everyone there was either a competitor, or just someone who has an affiliation with the club and has dogs. If there are regular people there, there is a very small amount of them there. And in that case, when they see the one working dog at the back of the line of all the show dogs, all it will do is lead them to think that that one is deformed in some way. It's not like you can talk and explain to people why the dog is the way it is.
> 
> Maybe at shows like Westminster and other national shows there are other people, but there aren't at your local AKC or UKC trial. It's just not a very "public friendly" event.



Well, maybe in your city, but not in the places I've shown - Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi. There are lots of spectators at the shows I've gone to over the years, and that would be in the hundreds and not dozens of events. I spend quite a bit of time walking around with one of my dogs, after showing, talking to the "regular" people. They ask questions about the shepherds, and they are always confused about what is going on in the ring, and I'll sit there and explain what they are seeing. It's a great opportunity to educate people.


----------



## dogfaeries

I also am a dog groomer, and send lots of my customers who are regular" people to dog shows to look at the breeds, and talk to breeders. I just talked to one of my Yorkie customers today about it. 

Our GSD club has a Meet The Breed booth at the big Oklahoma City cluster downtown each year. There are a variety of breeds that have a booth. I've parked my butt at our booth in more than one occasion with my dogs and answered questions from the "regular" people who love the Meet The Breed booths. Families with children LOVE it.


----------



## K10

Hmm, maybe I should start a new thread, so sorry if I'm out of place.... but I'm new to all of this. What is the difference between a show dog and working line dog? 

I guess in my experience I can assume that it's sort of like the difference in a bench lab and a field lab... but I'm wondering what the more specific differences in GSD's are. 

The GSD I'm fostering now looks pretty much like the GSD my family had when I was a child, and is what I've always imagined a GSD looking like, so I'm curious whether similar to labs it's more the "working" line is what people are used to seeing, and the "show" dogs are the ones who don't look the way most people would assume the breed looks like, or if it is different for other breeds.


----------



## Saphire

I'm going to enter Gus in at least one CKC show this summer.


----------



## SuperG

K10 said:


> What is the difference between a show dog and working line dog?


This will get you started.....

German Shepherd Types - German Shepherd Guide


SuperG


----------



## K10

SuperG said:


> This will get you started.....
> 
> German Shepherd Types - German Shepherd Guide
> 
> 
> SuperG


Thanks! Nice link... I found some that were more pictures than description, and pictures weren't clear enough for my untrained eye to know what I was looking at!


----------



## Nikitta

Ok, I'm being silly and you can bonk me on the head for this comment but how do you shwro a dog? /tease


----------



## Lykoz

K10 said:


> Thanks! Nice link... I found some that were more pictures than description, and pictures weren't clear enough for my untrained eye to know what I was looking at!


this pretty much explains it..



Leerburg Dog Training | German Bloodline Dogs vs. American Bloodline Dogs


----------



## SuperG

Nikitta said:


> Ok, I'm being silly and you can bonk me on the head for this comment but how do you shwro a dog? /tease


Probably after one too many beers ......


SuperG


----------



## vomlittlehaus

I entered my working line male in a couple shows in January. One was cancelled due to weather. The other he was the only one entered in his class, was given first place. And no, the judge doesnt have to give a first place to a dog just because they are the only entry. I want to show in UKC with him, and entered for practice. I didnt handle him. I have some friends with American show lines that all were there. By entering my male, it gave my friends male a major (based on how many dogs he defeated). My one male made the difference. She called me after and thanked me. I also just had him in two shows last month in Syracuse. A friend handled him for me. My other friend was there and her dog earned his CH. I even had some spectators that came to see the dogs ask to pet mine and my friends. We both have working lines. The women of the elderly couple even gave Dominic a hug. Remembering dogs they owned in the past. Go ahead and enter any shows you want. I thought it was fun and great socialization. We do have more opportunities for AKC shows, I was using those for practice.


----------



## zudnic

It might be different in Rottweiler's, even though not very many are shown CKC/AKC events these days. But most people truly interested in the breed want show information, so they can meet breeders or learn about what breeders have to offer. These are not show people, just interested in learning about the breed before they get one. The second group is people that are new, just got a puppy and now want to learn more by going to shows. The Rottweiler forum I'm on has questions asking where their local shows are at. 

The more popular shows are sieger shows put on by Rottweiler clubs. I've shown my Rottweiler's in these. I like having the critique by judges that actually know the breed VS an all breed judge that doesn't necessarily know the breed. Problems with the sieger shows they are more political.


----------



## gsdlover91

I just showed my all WL female puppy in the USCA sieger show last month. She placed second and got a really nice critique. I don't see why you wouldn't show them. Yeah there's a bias toward show lines but my female got a fair critique and the judge said that we should continue to show her.


----------



## zudnic

I noticed we have a sieger show coming up in Oct. I'm going to enter my new puppy, he'll be about 6months old then. Doing it mainly for the critique. He's Czech working lines, so don't expect great show results! Its still interesting and something to train for.


----------

