# Looking for 100% pure DDR pup



## DDR

Hi all,
I am looking for a 100% pure blooded DDR pup (male), this would be an easy thing for most of you to do, however, my case is somewhat different, because I live in China, east-coast, Shanghai area.
I have been looking for a great, decent, authentic DDR dog for many years in China, failed all the time. Seemed all the "DDRs" that I have seen were cross-bred.
Now, I look forward to overseas, I know some of you professional life-time GSD breeders are here in the forum. I hope you could help with finding and exporting a DDR pup to Shanghai, China via international airlines.
Also, I inquired about the prices which some breeders could offer, I am really looking for a cheaper price, some of those ones told me about $1.2K (USD), and I have got international airlines' quotes for shipping a pup is generally around $1K, what a grief ! Very tough to bear with the cost.
But, who made me such a deep lover of DDR dogs!
Anyways, if any of you know there're decent quality DDR pups w/ good price, say something here in the following. Please!

Thanks,


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## KZoppa

average USD price for a working line STARTS at $1200. Shipping is another matter and depends on the airline.


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## DDR

So, I guess you are a pro of breeding GSDs, now, let's say if the pup is only 40-45 lbs, size is small enough to fitting in a crate,do you have experience of shipping such a pup to Asian countries like China? and how much were those?
Thanks,


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## Liesje

Might be cheaper/easier to fly to Europe and fly the puppy back with you.


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## codmaster

DDR said:


> So, I guess you are a pro of breeding GSDs, now, let's say if the pup is only 40-45 lbs, size is small enough to fitting in a crate,do you have experience of shipping such a pup to Asian countries like China? and how much were those?
> Thanks,


 
*Now, this type of response will certainly encourage many more thoughtful replies with exactly the detailed information and help you are looking for, I am sure!*


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## Anitsisqua

DDR said:


> Hi all,
> I am looking for a 100% pure blooded DDR pup (male), this would be an easy thing for most of you to do, however, my case is somewhat different, because I live in China, east-coast, Shanghai area.
> I have been looking for a great, decent, authentic DDR dog for many years in China, failed all the time. Seemed all the "DDRs" that I have seen were cross-bred.


No such thing as a 100% DDR dog anymore. All "DDRs" are cross-bred nowadays because they aren't isolated anymore. That's not to say there aren't dogs influenced by traits carried over from DDR dogs, but that's what they are. Influenced.

I was actually speaking with a breeder about this recently...Funny it came up here.


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## DDR

Godly, would there be someone saying to me: Hey, I will send you a DDR pup for free?
I would dedicate my leisure time to my DDR, buying whatever foods he likes...Man, I love DDR so much.


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## qbchottu

Nobody will give you anything of quality for free - save up and learn as much as you can about the breed in the meantime...


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## onyx'girl

DDR, why do you love them so much? What is it about them, vs other lines that makes you want?


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## RocketDog

codmaster said:


> *Now, this type of response will certainly encourage many more thoughtful replies with exactly the detailed information and help you are looking for, I am sure!*



I think you are underestimating the language barrier. I don't think that was meant in a sarcastic tone at all.


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## Rangers-mom

I am sorry to jump in here but what is a DDR and whatmakes them special?


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## DDR

qbchottu said:


> Nobody will give you anything of quality for free - save up and learn as much as you can about the breed in the meantime...


Well, yeah, you are right. There's no free lunch in the world.
I was just saying...
Because I am still attending college, not much income to afford a great quality DDR dog, that's why.
But yes, I will try to learn from you pros about breeding DDRs.
Thanks!


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## Zahnburg

You do realize that the wall fell nearly 24 years ago. There is no longer any such thing as a DDR dog as the DDR no longer exists.

There are dogs that go back heavily on DDR, but of course neither they, nor their parents and probably not their grandparents are actually from the DDR.


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## DDR

onyx'girl said:


> DDR, why do you love them so much? What is it about them, vs other lines that makes you want?


Well, let me tell you a bit story when I was young.
So, when I was at the age of 8, I lived in a small village in China. One day, my Dad brought two GSD dogs(SV line) home, one was a male and the other was female. I believe they were from the same litter, however, I didn't ask.
Wherever I went, I took them with me, they were so playable and adorable.
My childhood pretty much tied up the most tightly with the two---my best friends. 
After about 7 years, I was brought to urban area due to schooling purpose. The two GSDs were sent to my Dad's friend, so sad. I still miss them very much, my childhood wouldn't be so memorable w/o them...
But I have kept looking for DDRs from many years ago, regarding DDR, I have read many threads about DDR and researched about how smart and obeyable they are. They are much more workable than general SV dogs, this is my personal opinion, no offense at all.
Now, I am studying and working in the US, I am about to go back to China in a while, so I think about taking a DDR pup with me, maybe I won't be able to get one, but I hope so.
I believe many of you have similar experience, I mean you have had great childhood with dogs. Right?

Thanks,


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## onyx'girl

What part of the US are you in? You may be able to observe training/clubs while here. I know of a few breeders who have the dominant lines, though not sure they are working their dogs in any venues. If you are on facebook, here are pages with the lines you may be interested in:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/204864746263306/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/70626018114/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/433821303340442/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/118857321469577/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/130851574384/ << I have to say, this page is really good, many old photos that the admin finds and posts.


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## DDR

Rangers-mom said:


> I am sorry to jump in here but what is a DDR and whatmakes them special?


Hi, please take a look at : History of the DDR German Shepherds
They have info about DDR


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## wolfy dog

To me this thread is starting to smell fishy for some reason.


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## DDR

onyx'girl said:


> What part of the US are you in? You may be able to observe training/clubs while here. I know of a few breeders who have the dominant lines, though not sure they are working their dogs in any venues. If you are on facebook, here are pages with the lines you may be interested in:
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/204864746263306/
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/70626018114/
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/433821303340442/
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/118857321469577/
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/130851574384/


Thank you so much! I am located in Reno/Sparks, Nevada, US.
I don't know if you know breeders from that area.


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## DDR

wolfy dog said:


> To me this thread is starting to smell fishy for some reason.


Would you mind if I ask the reason you doubt the thread's authenticity?


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## DDR

Hey everyone,
Do any of you know this breeder dejuco.com ?
I want to know the authenticity and quality of the dogs as well as the seller.
It would be great if you know and say something about dejuco here.


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## Omar Little

Rangers-mom said:


> I am sorry to jump in here but what is a DDR and whatmakes them special?


This is a little long winded, but I read it the other day and found it pretty interesting: What is a DDR German Shepherd Riddlebrook German Shepherds - Breeders of the finest quality German Shepherds


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## qbchottu

Zahnburg said:


> You do realize that the wall fell nearly 24 years ago. There is no longer any such thing as a DDR dog as the DDR no longer exists.


So true :thumbup:


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## Anitsisqua

Zahnburg said:


> You do realize that the wall fell nearly 24 years ago. There is no longer any such thing as a DDR dog as the DDR no longer exists.
> 
> There are dogs that go back heavily on DDR, but of course neither they, nor their parents and probably not their grandparents are actually from the DDR.


That's what I was trying to say on Page 1...You said it much better.


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## BlackthornGSD

Anitsisqua said:


> No such thing as a 100% DDR dog anymore. All "DDRs" are cross-bred nowadays because they aren't isolated anymore. That's not to say there aren't dogs influenced by traits carried over from DDR dogs, but that's what they are. Influenced.
> 
> I was actually speaking with a breeder about this recently...Funny it came up here.


That's not true, however. There are dogs whose pedigrees go back solely to dogs from former East Germany. There's quite a few.


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## BlackthornGSD

DDR said:


> Thank you so much! I am located in Reno/Sparks, Nevada, US.
> I don't know if you know breeders from that area.


Are you in China or in Nevada? In your original post you said you were in China, I thought.

There's a few people breeding DDR bloodline in California.


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## DDR

BlackthornGSD said:


> Are you in China or in Nevada? In your original post you said you were in China, I thought.
> 
> There's a few people breeding DDR bloodline in California.


To your question, I want to clarify here: I am from China, but I have been attending colleges here in the US for several years, now is the wrapping up stage, so I am going back to China soon. I am now still in the US, specifically in Nevada State, Reno/Sparks area.


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## carmspack

Parchimer Land East German Kennel - I have Como and Chiba Parchimer Land . They are very much for breeding with purpose that has nothing to do with commercial , trend or fad . Lines are outside of the common .

Gerhard Bauman of von Lord Fandor "von Lord Fandor"
I just love the structure , and the practical GSD herding done by these dogs .


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## codmaster

RocketDog said:


> I think you are underestimating the language barrier. I don't think that was meant in a sarcastic tone at all.


 
Perhaps but I don't think so! Is the OP a non English speaker? Did not seem like he/she was deficient in the English language.


Altough it waa little misleading as to where he/she was physically located - why else be so concerned with shipping a "DDR" dog to China?


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## codmaster

From OP first post:
*"my case is somewhat different, because I live in China, east-coast, Shanghai area."*

*I guess that I really did misunderstand the intent/meaning of the OP as I misread the above to mean that he/she lived in China in the Shanghai area.


*


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## wolfy dog

codmaster said:


> From OP first post:
> *"my case is somewhat different, because I live in China, east-coast, Shanghai area."*
> 
> *I guess that I really did misunderstand the intent/meaning of the OP as I misread the above to mean that he/she lived in China in the Shanghai area.
> 
> 
> *


Hence my confusion.


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## carmspack

I have experience shipping dogs to Hong Kong , now part of China (again) .
Both parties, in Canada , friends of each other , were specialists in dentistry, one for children and the other a bush pilot dentist serving remote northern areas.
Each returned to China to help there . While living in Canada each had a dog from me. After moving to Hong Kong and the original dogs having passed from venerable old age , they wanted another "the same" .

Boy was shipping difficult . Many documents needed. Many requirements as to vaccinations and in-house quarantine . Inspections of dog by local and federal vet . 
To import the dog into China the consignee had to get permission and documents from his Chinese officials to allow the dog to enter , to even board the plane destined to travel to China (airline needed documents)
Then the flight . Terribly long -- guidelines for servicing dog while in transit --- crate size requirement , availability of space etc etc. 

Yes , the cost was in the $1,000 PLUS range just for the flight , never mind the extra charges and taxes and insurance .

The next time I was asked to ship to China I begged off , not up to it .

Maybe it is easier now . Maybe it is easier if the person is travelling with the dog . Maybe it is easier if the person departs using a westerly route - west coast , rather than my east coast location , saving time in transit.

many things to consider.


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## DDR

codmaster said:


> Perhaps but I don't think so! Is the OP a non English speaker? Did not seem like he/she was deficient in the English language.
> 
> 
> Altough it waa little misleading as to where he/she was physically located - why else be so concerned with shipping a "DDR" dog to China?


LOL... I didn't mean to confuse any of you. If needs correction to what I said in the original post: I am from Shanghai area(where is close to the East Sea), China. 
I hope that made things clear now on...
Thanks for arguing in favor of me.


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## DDR

Wow, seems like you didn't like the job though.
Bear with me if I misunderstand your message, are you now planning to ship another DDR to Mainland, China? Which destination city is it? And you are from which state?


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## DDR

I just read your carmspack.com website info and I like your dogs very much.
Would you mind to give me a price range of your DDR pups? It's just because I got a quote from Montreal, Canada, where is close your location. So...
Thanks


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## JakodaCD OA

it sounds like Carmen would NOT want to go thru the hassle of shipping a dog to china.

I may have missed your answer, but why do you want a DDR dog specifically? 

While german shepherds may not be abundant in China, I'm sure you could find a decent one on that side of the world (europe) which would be cheaper for you to ship or go get in person than taking one from the US or Canada.

There is so much more than "looks" when it comes to these dogs. What would happen if you got this dog all the way to china and it wasn't working out? Are you prepared to spend alot of money if an emergency cropped up? JUst curious and things for you to think about

Just a thought


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## damaya

DDR said:


> I would dedicate my leisure time to my DDR, buying whatever foods he likes...


That may not work well either. I have to find more than just my _leisure_ time to make sure Icon has the exercise he requires. (yes he has a DDR pedigree) If I only dedicated leisure time he would be bouncing off the walls. He can usually tire me out before I can run him down. 

Good luck on your search though. You are asking questions in the right place.


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## martemchik

A well bred any type of GSD will run you $1000+. For a working line, I wouldn't pay more than $1500. You are not going to find a PURE DDR for $500. You'll find one that looks like one but probably doesn't act like one.

I have a half DDR half West German WL. It's fun, and I thought I wanted a full DDR next. After doing my research, and joining a club, I realized I just want a good working dog. So a good friend of mine (from the club) is breeding her bitch. She's 100% old west German WL. That's the dog I'm going to go with. Training wise...not much different, and unless you've been around the different lines for decades...you won't even notice the difference.


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## DDR

To your questions, I really have never thought about buying a DDR from Europe because of general pricing stream-of-consciousness. An apple costs 1 buck in the US may cost 1 euro in Europe, and Euro is much more expensive than US dollar. That's how I approached to this... But I want to know the average price for DDR pups in Europe now as you have mentioned the price difference. Do you know the price there then?
Also, I personally think that the DDR pedigree from the US has been artificially changed a lot from decades ago when they were brought from Europe, after WWII. Which now when we look at them, they have better body structures, maybe....

To the other question, I haven't not planned a contingency plan for the emergency situations, so would you give me some examples of "not working out"? Because I would only keep a DDR for companion and bodyguard protection purpose.


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## DDR

martemchik said:


> A well bred any type of GSD will run you $1000+. For a working line, I wouldn't pay more than $1500. You are not going to find a PURE DDR for $500. You'll find one that looks like one but probably doesn't act like one.


Ha! It's something interesting because some US DDR breeders quoted around $ 1500-$2000 for a 2-month pup. But you said no more than $1500. I really have to take a deeper look into the industry from now on...


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## DDR

damaya said:


> That may not work well either. I have to find more than just my _leisure_ time to make sure Icon has the exercise he requires. (yes he has a DDR pedigree) If I only dedicated leisure time he would be bouncing off the walls. He can usually tire me out before I can run him down.
> 
> Good luck on your search though. You are asking questions in the right place.


That might be true, but I would say it depends on what type of personality the different dog possesses. I have experienced some very quite dogs in my life, I bred them with little time spent on playing because I had to do schoolwork, sigh... I still like to spend as much time as I could. Is your DDR a mix?
Thanks,


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## DDR

Again, sorry to ask one more time here:
Any one familiar with the breeder dejuco from Quebec, Canada? How about the sires and dams? I kind of like the Sire Jagger and the Dam Jordani. What do you think of the two? They will have a litter late this year.


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## FlyAway

I read the web page for Dejuco. It seems that they have been through difficulties in the past but are now happy with what they breed. 


"We believe that a German Shepherd should have no fear, ideal with children, able to working and of a temperament always equal. All these qualities, we found them in these lineages. That is why we invest a lot of time and money to have exemplary dogs."

They do health checks and socialize the puppies with children, and have photos of children with the puppies. It's worth contacting them to get more information. They sure have beautiful dogs.


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## DDR

You may have noticed that most of their litters are from internal, I mean parents are from the same kennel, which is not recommended.
Did you also see the prices they listed out there on the web? Reasonable? Particularly, look into the one named Jagger and Jordani.


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## DDR

Now, would anyone like to give me some web links of those best DDR breeders? Those who are well-known,trustworthy, reputable, reasonable pricing and commonly recognized in the US. I'd appreciate it. And the most important thing: offers international shipping.


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## onyx'girl

those facebook page links I gave above have many of the breeders posting. Or people post photo's of their dogs, usually with the registered name. I'd join some of those pages and ask around there. Also...if you are now in the US, why couldn't you have the pup go back when you return to China, and make sure you have all the paperwork in order so the shipment goes smoothly, because you'll be there to oversee it all?


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## martemchik

DDR said:


> Ha! It's something interesting because some US DDR breeders quoted around $ 1500-$2000 for a 2-month pup. But you said no more than $1500. I really have to take a deeper look into the industry from now on...


With shipping it will cost you around $2000...to the states. Where as to China...if what carmen says is true, it might be closer to $3000.

I know you're a college kid and all but in my mind the difference between $1500 and $2000 is negligible when it comes to a 10 year companion. At the same time there is a huge difference between paying $500 today and $1500 today. I can find a lot of things to do with $1000. What I was saying is that you won't find a dog in what I would consider a college student's budget and then be able to ship it back to China. I also wouldn't expect anyone to be "nice" to you because these pure DDR dogs are highly sought after, and with such a small supply the breeders have no problem finding homes at $2000 a piece.


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## codmaster

DDR said:


> Now, would anyone like to give me some web links of those best DDR breeders? Those who are well-known,trustworthy, reputable, reasonable pricing and commonly recognized in the US. I'd appreciate it. And the most important thing: offers international shipping.


 
Could you let the forum know what research (and finding breeders) that you have done on your own, and what breeders that you may have identified from your own research?

That would certainly help anyone who has some knowledge of this area.


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## DDR

onyx'girl said:


> those facebook page links I gave above have many of the breeders posting. Or people post photo's of their dogs, usually with the registered name. I'd join some of those pages and ask around there. Also...if you are now in the US, why couldn't you have the pup go back when you return to China, and make sure you have all the paperwork in order so the shipment goes smoothly, because you'll be there to oversee it all?


That's what I thought about the first time, now, since I didn't find any DDR breeders in Nevada, I'd have to buy from another distanced area within the US (even if it's California, I know the shipping cost is generally $400 +), that's almost 1/3 of the price of a pup. And plus the international transportation part costs another $1K or so, in total is around $1.2K+$0.4K+$1K=$2.6K That's why I don't choose this option for now, unless I have to.
And, I know the fact that breeders know about the document preparations stuff much more than I do.


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## DDR

codmaster said:


> Could you let the forum know what research (and finding breeders) that you have done on your own, and what breeders that you may have identified from your own research?
> 
> That would certainly help anyone who has some knowledge of this area.


I looked into the potential litter of Jagger and Jordani on dejuco.com. Do you think the dogs are quite quality? They are located in Canada though...


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## DDR

martemchik said:


> With shipping it will cost you around $2000...to the states. Where as to China...if what carmen says is true, it might be closer to $3000.
> 
> I know you're a college kid and all but in my mind the difference between $1500 and $2000 is negligible when it comes to a 10 year companion. At the same time there is a huge difference between paying $500 today and $1500 today. I can find a lot of things to do with $1000. What I was saying is that you won't find a dog in what I would consider a college student's budget and then be able to ship it back to China. I also wouldn't expect anyone to be "nice" to you because these pure DDR dogs are highly sought after, and with such a small supply the breeders have no problem finding homes at $2000 a piece.


You are absolutely right. I have started to save up some bucks to see whether I can afford it at the end. Though not necessary a 100% pure ddr


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## volcano

You aint getting the pick of the litter pup either. More than likely youd wind up with one that was deemed undesirable unless you have connections. There arent alot of great dogs available. DDR- theres a breeding section on the forum. I shouldve looked into more before buying my girl/ shes questionable but lets hope for the best.


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## NancyJ

DDR said:


> You are absolutely right. I have started to save up some bucks to see whether I can afford it at the end. Though not necessary a 100% pure ddr


What, exactly are you looking for in terms of characteristics? There are honestly a lot of excellent mixtures of DDR/Czech/West German working lines - focusing in on the dog, what you plan on doing with it, etc. may help you get the best dog you need.


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## Omar Little

volcano said:


> You aint getting the pick of the litter pup either. More than likely youd wind up with one that was deemed undesirable unless you have connections. There arent alot of great dogs available. DDR- theres a breeding section on the forum. I shouldve looked into more before buying my girl/ shes questionable but lets hope for the best.


Are you saying that most puppies, including ones from breeders that are recommended on this forum, are "undesirable" unless you have connections? Are you saying undesirable from a showing/champion working dog or even as active companion pets? Sorry, I may also be taking this out of context because I haven't read this entire, yet wonderful, thread also.


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## gaia_bear

Omar Little said:


> Are you saying that most puppies, including ones from breeders that are recommended on this forum, are "undesirable" unless you have connections? Are you saying undesirable from a showing/champion working dog or even as active companion pets? Sorry, I may also be taking this out of context because I haven't read this entire, yet wonderful, thread also.


I think what they may have been trying to say is picks of the litter (whatever that may be) are usually givin to work/show homes as a preference. I'm not sure how one determines the pick of the litter thou as one pup that may be excellent for what I want is no where close to what you are looking for. 

Not trying to put words in anyones mouth but that's how it came across to me. I don't think connections per say has anything to do with it more the reasoning/purpose behind why you are looking for what you want.


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## Omar Little

Yeah probably. My post came off kind of crappy but wasn't intended that way. I'm just trying to learn as much as possible about choosing and researching breeders.


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## martemchik

Assuming the litter has some variation in drive and structure...the breeder will place a dog with drives to excel in Schutzhund in a Schutzhund working home. Remember, the success of progeny is huge when it comes to future breeding prospects of the dam or sire. So if you have 3 dogs out of 10 that could really go somewhere in terms of trialing in Schutzhund, you want to give those dogs to a handler that will do that. In the same sense that a show line breeder will give their best show prospect (most correct structure) to a home where the dog will be shown in the breed ring. There is no use in giving "the best" dog to a home where it will just sit on a couch and play some fetch, the dog deserves to be shown and possibly have its genes passed on.

So...even assuming that you're "first in line" for a puppy...you'll probably get a puppy out of that litter but it does not guarantee you're getting the "pick of the litter." It just says you'll get a dog that fits what you want to do with it. Most reputable breeders pick their homes in this way, anyone that lets YOU pick the puppy isn't really knowledgeable or doesn't care that much about what happens with their progeny (and I picked my last dog myself but now know better).


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## Omar Little

Even if you don't get the pick of the litter and you're just looking for an active companion, that doesn't mean you are getting an undesirable dog. That's what I'm saying, or hoping.


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## gaia_bear

Omar Little said:


> Even if you don't get the pick of the litter and you're just looking for an active companion, that doesn't mean you are getting an undesirable dog. That's what I'm saying, or hoping.


Right. You're getting a dog that suits what you're looking for.


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## carmspack

My interpretation is that with the persons budget (limited) he won't be in a position to get the "best" dog from the litter . Not so. Generally not so in working lines or with working line breeders as pups are selected , the best pup for that person , not the best (whatever that means) pup out of the litter .
Show dogs tend to be chosen for the best conformation and chances of winning , and may be priced in levels select , best . Or it could be marketing because you can manipulate ego , bragging rights "I got the best" 

since I was asked on the forum , my pups are $1,500 .

do I want to ship to China again. No thanks . Twice was more than enough. The third request I told the person , a Markham professional (GTA people will know what is meant by this) that the best thing would be to get a pup and have a friend bring it along if they visit Hong Kong .

It is expensive for many reasons.

First , unless things have changed , is the fact that you can't ship a pup. There are minimum ages because of vaccination and quarantine regulations.
I believe that mine left when they were 9 months or more.
Since it is so difficult and you have the pups that long it is a good idea to do prelim on hips and elbows so that if there were something wrong you could go to plan B. I did this , both dogs, both dogs with ofa prelim opinion - good . No point in going through all this hassle only to have a disatisfied new owner and going back and forth with making good on gurantees. Because you randomly select the pups and run them on you better have good hips records within the breeding program and know your dogs , or you will be re-starting from scratch again . 

then because the dogs have age on them , you don't leave them sitting warehoused or idle. Now you are involved with socializing , training, feeding - eats up time, and you won't get paid enough to recognize this . So if you are getting a pup from North America to take back to China be prepared for this added expense.

Then , there is so much paper work. 
The person buying the dog , taking it or having it shipped to China has to get permits from their government , without which the dog will be denied entry and be turned around .

Then the person selling the dog has to meet regulations set out in the documents from the Chinese government . They include an initial vet inspection . Then getting closer to shipping time , there are specific time sensitive steps to vaccinate (again) for rabies . Then there is a quarantine period where the dog must be kept in an approved kennel in a zone where there have been no reported rabies . Then the dog has to be seen again by the local vet , and later within a set out time frame by the federal vet . (again) paper work made out confirming all steps re quarantine have been met.

Flight arrangements. Ridiculously difficult because you have to ship in x-large crates and not all cargo hold is appropriate for live cargo , or space is at a premium . At the airport the dog is examined again before being accepted by the federal vet available to Customs . In my case , two dogs, sent separately a year of so apart , both dogs had to be put up in the airport approved kennels just to be able to jockey them around to meet all the deadlines to get on board. Expense .

There are taxes, tariffs, charges , the vets and kenneling come at a price.

Do I want to do it again. Big headache , no thanks.

I did provide you with two very good breeders in Europe that don't just breed DDR to have a certain look , as is often the case in North America.

If you want a North American bred DDR dog , your best bet is to get the pup and you raise it and you do the red tape and vet stuff .

I would say a conservative price all inclusive will easily come to $3,000 (dog , expenses, flight).


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## DDR

jocoyn said:


> What, exactly are you looking for in terms of characteristics? There are honestly a lot of excellent mixtures of DDR/Czech/West German working lines - focusing in on the dog, what you plan on doing with it, etc. may help you get the best dog you need.


The characteristics that I want to see in a DDR/Czech or so, should be vigorous, strong, lean, a little bigger than overall average size, dark/sable coat, loyal to owner, trainable, and the biggest one: SMART. The reason why I choose DDR over SV/Western GSD is because DDR looks smarter and they actually are so.


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## Sunflowers

I have yet to see a stupid GSD.


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## martemchik

DDR said:


> The characteristics that I want to see in a DDR/Czech or so, should be vigorous, strong, lean, a little bigger than overall average size, dark/sable coat, loyal to owner, trainable, and the biggest one: SMART. The reason why I choose DDR over SV/Western GSD is because DDR looks smarter and they actually are so.


And you've trained/been around enough of both lines to know this? Or is all your research based on hearsay and what people post in forums/online?

I'm sorry...but you sound just like me a few years ago. I did my research online and in books and figured out I wanted a working line. I didn't really go into the whole breakdown of different working lines, just knew I wanted a working line. I had no experience with the breed, or the lines, or anything of the sort but thought I had a bunch of these answers. I didn't go watch dogs (it was a waste of time IMO) and I didn't ask people that actually knew what they were talking about (the handlers/trainers/breeders of those dogs).

My suggestion...go find a GSD club, or a Schutzhund club, and actually see the dogs work. See them in action, see them getting trained. Sorry to burst your bubble, DDR dogs are not smarter than others, IMO they are slower to mature, have a mind of their own, and are in some cases much more difficult to train (which kind of makes it look like they're dumber).

I love how DDR dogs look, they're spectacular, but as working dogs, someone as inexperienced as you (or me) won't know the difference. Any working line from a reputable kennel will provide you with what you're looking for. So get rid of your opinions that you've formed from reading things on the internet, go out and SEE the dogs in action. Then form your opinions on what lines are more trainable, bigger, or smarter. I'll just tell you right now...many of your conclusions are incorrect.


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## DDR

carmspack
"since I was asked on the forum , my pups are $1,500 .that the best thing would be to get a pup and have a friend bring it along if they visit Hong Kong ."
1. Why should it be Hong Kong? I am supposed to go to Shanghai. Are you talking about the DDR you brought to Hong Kong previously?
"Then , there is so much paper work. 

The person buying the dog , taking it or having it shipped to China has to get permits from their government , without which the dog will be denied entry and be turned around ."
2. Should I get the permit before I ship the dog? or when I get to the airport and then I need to get the permit? Also, how to get the permit?

"If you want a North American bred DDR dog , your best bet is to get the pup and you raise it and you do the red tape and vet stuff ."
3. Let's say if I buy a DDR here now in Nevada and I raise it up until the end of this year, meanwhile, I do the vet stuff and assuming the dog is 100% healthy. And then I try to ship it to China with my flight back, would that be easier processes? From what you have mentioned, I am still a bit scared by the obnoxious procedures. Sigh...

Thank you very much for your advice, carmspack!


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## Sunflowers

martemchik said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble, DDR dogs are not smarter than others, IMO they are slower to mature, have a mind of their own, and are in some cases much more difficult to train .


This is exactly what my breeder told me.
She also said they were more aloof, and not as affectionate.


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## DDR

Sunflowers said:


> I have yet to see a stupid GSD.


What do you mean?


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## IloveGSDs

If you want to know the procedures, costs, certificates, etc., to ship a dog to china...then call the airlines. I'm sure they can give you some information and refer you to the correct people to get your answers.


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## DDR

Sunflowers said:


> This is exactly what my breeder told me.
> She also said they were more aloof, and not as affectionate.


Godly! A lot of voices say so make me feel like so dumb. Thanks, all.
I may switch back to western GSD.
Tough decisions...


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## Sunflowers

DDR said:


> Godly! A lot of voices say so make me feel like so dumb. Thanks, all.
> I may switch back to western GSD.
> Tough decisions...


There's no need to feel dumb -- all of us started somewhere.
Just do your research, and ask questions. Figure out the type of German Shepherd you would like to have, given your lifestyle and the time you have to devote to it. This is a good place to start to see the different lines
(Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )


DDR said:


> What do you mean?


I meant that all German Shepherds are smart.


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## martemchik

DDR said:


> Godly! A lot of voices say so make me feel like so dumb. Thanks, all.
> I may switch back to western GSD.
> Tough decisions...


No no no no no!!! Don't switch based on what we're saying...just go and actually see dogs. See them get training, see how they react to correction, to praise. Talk to their handlers and ask what they like and don't like about THAT particular dog. Go to some SV shows, go to Schutzhund trials, go to Schutzhund club trainings and figure this stuff out first hand.

Talk to people and ask them where they got their dog from, what they like about it, what they don't like about it. Don't focus so much on the over all title...at the end of the day WGSL, WGWL, DDR, Czech, American...none of that matters. It just matters you get the dog that you want and that fits your lifestyle.

Gauge the dog's drives, see what you would like to live with. Figure out the differences between males/females of those lines (I'm talking kennel/parental lines, not our overall categories). Now is the best time to do your research FIRST HAND and not read online opinions.

Find the dog that you want, and don't worry about the prestige of the label.


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## carmspack

don't agree with this "Originally Posted by *martemchik*  
_Sorry to burst your bubble, DDR dogs are not smarter than others, IMO they are slower to mature, have a mind of their own, and are in some cases much more difficult to train ._
This is exactly what my breeder told me.
She also said they were more aloof, and not as affectionate"

as in all things it depends on who the breeder is , what the goals are , what the genetic heritage (planning) is behind the dog , whether West German or East German. There are some brilliant , natural , instinctive dogs coming from the OLD East German lines, not the north American bred - "pretty dogs" (iconic ddr styled) that are not bred for work , just the cosmetics. 
When a dog is gifted with natural instincts it makes training sooo easy -- you join forces more or less .
Stupid GSD -- oh sure there are --


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## Sunflowers

I guess I will just shut up now


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## martemchik

carmspack said:


> as in all things it depends on who the breeder is , what the goals are , what the genetic heritage (planning) is behind the dog , whether West German or East German. There are some brilliant , natural , instinctive dogs coming from the OLD East German lines, not the north American bred - "pretty dogs" (iconic ddr styled) that are not bred for work , just the cosmetics.
> When a dog is gifted with natural instincts it makes training sooo easy -- you join forces more or less .
> Stupid GSD -- oh sure there are --


Carmen, you're right, but I think both of us were generalizing. Of course there are breeders doing good things and depending on the genetics behind the dogs are against the "norm" but from what I have seen, and heard, in general DDR lines are slower maturing than their WG counter parts. But as with all things its a matter of the distinct family line rather than the overall label of where the dog comes from.

You also make a great point about the ones bred in America.


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## carmspack

sunflowers -- because you have to look at the individual , you can't make a generalization . Some just don't have the same capacity for learning whether that comes from lack of focus, lack of interest or drive, lack of retention. Some are great at adapting and meeting what is asked of them, and then you have the super clever ones that have initiative , and ability to assess and predict , valuable for a herding dog who has to get a feel for the conditions of the herd and keep an eye on where the bad sheep that may brake away -- that is a keen watchfullness -- and others who you thank god that they don't have thumbs , the dog who will watch you and then unlock all the clips you have placed on the crate or enclosure almost as fast as you put them on.

its not good and its not bad , it just is , and it is realistic look at things. just like there are no ethnic groups or hair colour groups or genders that are smarter or dumber -- it comes down to the individual.


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## carmspack

and this "You also make a great point about the ones bred in America. " is exactly the point that was made by one of the breeder-links that I gave the OP . 
That by now people don't even know what they were like because all the breeding has been done for the sake of "ddr" with no regard or understanding to what the lines were or what they had to offer .


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## codmaster

I think that the OP would be much better off finding a good breeder that they can trust, telling them exactly what type of dog they are looking for and letting them make a pick on the puppy. As long as you trust the breeder - that would seem to be the way to go.


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## JakodaCD OA

I think the OP needs to get out there, meet some dogs, meet some breeders , go to some shows, and get a HANDS ON feel for what "is" out there. 

You can look at pictures all day long, pictures don't make the dog. Hands on and meeting dogs in person as well as breeders you can learn alot more .


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## Seer

*Oy vey









*


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