# My dog bit someone



## Thors

This is a post I never thought I would have to write. My beautiful boy bit a jogger 3 days ago. I held off posting until I spoke with my lawyer, seems it's safe to talk about it here.

Details:
1.5 year old intact male GSD. Did puppy and obedience classes with great effect and socialized well until the beginning of last winter at which point he was about a year old. Since then he has had limited contact with strangers as we live way out in the country and have few visitors during the winter months. About a month ago I had friends over and he showed a great deal of aggression towards them, which was something I had never seen in him. He lives in a loving home with 3 kids, one of which is 2.5. He is wonderful with all of us. My toddler can do anything with him and he is so gentle. We also have 2 cats. He harasses them but does not try to hurt them. Just wants to sniff their bums, which irritates the heck out of them.

The bite occurred Sunday morning. He was outside on his lead for a morning pee while I made coffee. Next thing I know I hear ferocious barking coming from the front of the house. I ran out and witnessed him barking like crazy at a woman that was jogging by on the street. She started screaming and running around trying to get away from him. She fell down. As soon as I got down the driveway and yelled for him to come he did, and ran up and into the house. My wife walked her home while I stayed and gave a statement to the police along with providing vet papers and other details. His lead (250lb beast cable) failed due to fatigue at the clip.

The woman went to the hospital. Her injuries are a bite to the buttocks and a broken wrist. When she was running backwards from him she fell and landed hard on her wrist. We have reached out to them and offered to pay bills and help in any way we can. For now they are not ready to talk to us. My dog is quarantined in home for 10 days and right now the animal control officer is on vacation so I have no details as to what the next steps are. I know he will go for a vicious dog hearing as the town requires it. I also know at this point he will be terrible if brought into a room full of strangers.

Here’s some things I noticed about the attack. He had about 20 seconds with the woman before I was able to make it out the door and down the driveway. During that time he barked like crazy and got very close to her and bit once. With the way she was jumping around, I’m not even sure if the bite was intentional on his part. (Please realize, I’m not trying to dismiss the incident in any way, just trying to give you guys as much info as possible.) I also have not seen the pictures of the bite yet so I can’t say how bad it was. I do know there were no stitches required. When she fell backwards, he did not advance on her, just kept barking. 

Right now, I’m not sure what the outcome will be. I don’t expect the town to force euthanasia but keeping him is not an option. My wife is steadfast and I can’t really blame her. The double jeopardy laws of RI are just too much of a risk. I have tried to contact the German Shepherd Rescue of New England and they can’t help until he is in a shelter and in dire need. I’m not even sure placing him is possible with a bite on his record. I have also reached out to the state police to see if they would be interested in evaluating him but have no info yet. My next call will be to Vom Winhaus Shepherds to see if they could do an eval once the 10 day quarantine is up.

My family is traumatized right now and I’m having trouble dealing with this emotionally. This is my fault and I will always have to live with that. This poor woman was sooo scared and I just can’t get the scene out of my mind. I love my boy and have been spending lots of time with him but none of that really matters now. What’s done is done. I guess I would like to hear anything you guys have that might help me place him or otherwise handle the situation.


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## dd

I am so sorry for what you are going through, but in all honesty placing a dog with a bite record is unlikely to be an option for you. Rescues will not take bite cases - the liability is too high.

If you want your dog to live and your town does not force euthanasia, the only way is for you to keep him and work with a good trainer as well as taking extra measures to ensure he will never be in a situation where he can bite again.


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## BowWowMeow

My dog Basu did the same thing and it was a fear bite (bites from behind are fear bites). I am guessing (and I stress guessing b/c you need a qualified animal behaviorist to evaluate your dog to get a real idea of what is going on) that your dog has become fear aggressive due to lack of socialization and weak nerves on his part. My Basu was undersocialized before I adopted him. He was exposed to very few people and spent most of his time locked in a cage in the garage. He was gentle, sweet and totally predictable with those that he knew but he turned into Cujo around people who came into his territory that he did not know. He broke out of my yard a few times and went after the mailman and he was never, ever trustworthy off leash in his territory. A tie out would have been a terrible option for him. A wooden fence worked best as he couldn't see out and didn't get as worked up. After he broke out of the fence I always went out with him as he listened very well to me. 

The bite also shocked me as I'd never had a dog who bit before. Luckily the person who got bit did not pursue it and the bite itself was very minor. It was a wake up call for me though and continued with OB classes through Advanced OB and his CGC as well as a lot of counter conditioning. 

I can write more later but just wanted to say that I understand what you're going through and what a shock it is.


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## BowWowMeow

I didn't read your whole post. You will not and should not place your dog with someone else unless they have experience rehabbing fear aggressive dogs. If I had tried to do that with Basu he would have been pts for sure. 

Hire a qualified animal behaviorist and trainer and start working on counter-conditioning him and properly socializing him. It can be done! Basu traveled to other people's houses, went on vacation with me, lived a normal dog life in my household, etc. I just understood his limits and never pushed him over them! 

He is in all likeliness a very poor working candidate as your description of the attack sounds like he is fearful and does not have a clear head for situations that pose a real threat. *Again, that does not mean that he is a lost cause! * 

He is a dog and just like people get in physical fights, dogs sometimes bite.


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## Amaruq

I am thinking it COULD be prey motivated. Rayne and KC can sound VERY serious and VERY mean, intimidating etc when they are simply playing with each other. I would DEFINITELY have him evaluated by someone who knows and understands GSD behavior. 

As Ruth said it COULD be fear aggression but I am thinking a jogger running by the property and then acting spastic it COULD also be prey. It is really tough to call in a situation like this without actually witnessing the dog and human.


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## RavenSophi

> Originally Posted By: ThorsI don’t expect the town to force euthanasia but keeping him is not an option.


So sorry to hear that happened. I cant' imagine how you and your family are feeling. Can I ask why keeping him is not an option?


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## Thors

Thanks for the info. I will have to see what my options are once the animal control officer gets back, and I get to speak with the victim. I was inclined to think fear aggression as well but I feel so unqualified at this point I'm second guessing myself on every thought I have.

One thing I did want to mention and forgot. He was recently vaccinated for rabies (second time), about 2 months ago and I found quite a bit of literature about potential issues with that. Since he was so good before his social hiatus, I have to wonder if that has anything to do with it. He was also diagnosed with lyme disease about 6 months ago and treated successfully. He has always had advantix monthly which I thought would protect him but my vet said she has seen this happen a few times. Could Lyme have anything to do with the behavior?


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## JeffM

Sorry to hear about your situation. I can't imagine the feeling. I would find a professional to help train him and you to deal with this aggression.

I commend you on owning up to the fact your puppy has an issue instead of denying it. Clearly shows you are a responsible owner.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

http://www.tufts.edu/vet/behavior/ would be where I was heading ASAP after quarantine. It will demonstrate the seriousness of your response to the incident, and may give you enough information to feel comfortable with keeping him. 

I am very sorry about the dog-I would also neuter him since management is getting difficult. Not that it would cure anything, but might help. I would also not leave him out unsupervised and would comply with any muzzling that they might want. 

It really is too much for us to be able to tell over the internet-his behavior, temperament, etc. He could be just a typical overly excited, under NILIF'd dog. Or he could be off. Just can't tell!

That Tuft's clinic is well known and respected.


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## dd

Thyroid issues can trigger aggression, so you might want to get a thyroid check done to rule that out if you plan to go the behaviourist route.

Have you worked with a trainer before? 

If I were you, I would wait until things calm down before you make any real decisions. This is a shock and you need time to absorb that.


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## jarn

I'm not sure about treated lyme disease, but there is a link between lyme and aggressive behaviour. 

If you google that you'll find lots of information on lyme and aggression in dogs (I believe it can also cause it in people).


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## Mary Jane

Thors,

I also know what you are going through. We had a similar problem with Wolf, except he bit our friendly neighbor as we were all standing there, with Wolf on leash. Fortunately, our neighbor was very understanding. What we thought was odd at the time is that he had just completed another obedience course. Later we learned that with greater confidence, came some "courage" to bite.

We saw a veterinary behaviorist and got advice we could actually apply. I am not knowledgeable about dog training, but I found desensitization something that can work. I think you could also work with your boy if there is any room for reconsideration. Could you explain more about double jeopardy laws of RI and what they would mean if your boy bit again?

I'm terribly sorry that you are going through this.

Mary Jane


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## Timber1

My dog did the same thing, more then once, which is the subject of a different post. 

Fortunately, knocking down a jogger in a sno-mobile suit did not cause any serious harm; however, there was one incident in which the dog was reported to animal control in Minnesota. I had to keep the dog inside for ten days, and then have a vet examine him. 

Of course we are working with him, my trainer and I, to try and prevent this from ever happening again.

Based on what you said, my first thought is keep and work with the dog. Beyond that, there are some rescue groups that might take the dog. However, if the dog is overly aggressive, rather then being killed a few rescues will turn the dog over to a professional trainer.

There are ways to train the dog, and based on your initial comments this dog is not vicious. A vicious dog would have attacked and not stopped.


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## big_dog7777

I'm sorry, this sucks. It could have been a prey bite which followed the initial territorial fear response, who knows. You will not be able to place him anywhere with the bite incident, so your options are to either put him down or get control of him. Personally I would do everything in my power to avoid option #1, so lets focus on what can be done and how that applies to your liability right now...

1. Neuter him ASAP. It can bring down aggression in general. Not guaranteed to, but it's easy and shows you are very serious about this problem. 

2. No more tie outs EVER, especially in the front of the house. It's an invitation to disaster leaving a dog that is territorial at all tied up in plain sight of pedestrians. Best option would be to fence your back yard or part of your yard to make a run if the back yard is too big to fence (you said you're in the country). 6' privacy is the best option if possible. Again, this shows you are serious about the situation.

3. Condition him to a muzzle. It sounds like you don't need it in the house or anything, but you will need to get him out for heavy socialization and you will need to be calm and in charge when you do. The muzzle will help you and your wife be calm and confident knowing that nobody can get bit. 

4. Enlist the help of a trainer/behavioralist ASAP. Get him evaluated and into classes. Bounce trainers off of everyone here on the board, we can help you find someone that can help.

5. Your dog has lost all decision making authority. His only decision should be to look to you, or your family for guidance when assessing any new situation. It takes some conditioning and training to achieve, but it can be done and this should be the focus of any trainer along with socialization and teaching you to recognize his body language so you know when something will happen before it actually does. This means you control all interaction with visitors around the house - on leash. 

You reacted properly when the incident happened, and if you follow through on the above nobody can say you did not react and take things seriously. Good luck.


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## Dee Phillips

Im sorry you and he are in this fix, he is not 2 yet so he is not mature yet, he did what is natural for GSD to protect his home, which is why you cant trust them free, to make their own judgements as at that age their like a teenage boy showing their but-. You dont say if he is show or working line, and the training is different for them. So with out alot of info on him I would say supervision or confinement.I will say if he intended to hurt her she would have been done by the time you got there, and he would not have come when you called him,so it sounds like youth and training,both that can be corrected if they let you have him back. They wont just let you rehome so I would go on a search for a trainer and sign him up to prove he will be handled to the city,or set up fencing so you can prove he is confined when not supervised,it might work. I hope so best


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## darga19

Sorry to hear about what happened.

So many people have offered their advice already that I don't have anything great to add. Just don't give up on him! 

I'm sure the woman acting like a spaz didn't help the situation any. I hate when people get so darn excited around my dogs...some people just don't know any better.

We had about 10 people over the house last weekend in the yard for a bonfire, and one of my fiancee's friends decided to tap Marshall on the head (which he doesn't normally like unless it's me or Sarah) and then proceed to run around in circles crazily and yell (purposefully getting him riled up). When Marshall reacted and barked at him, he got scared and looked at me like..."what's wrong with your dog?" with this blank stare. I was angry. What do you expect you moron? It's enough that my dogs are calmly dealing with a bunch of strangers at the house...and you're going to go ahead and act like an idiot on top of that?? Pissed me right off.

Anyways...sorry to blab on. Best of luck with your situation.


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## BowWowMeow

I'm sure that the woman was terrified when the dog broke his chain and came charging at her. I certainly would have been. Of course she was trying to get away--she didn't want to get bit the first time and then didn't want to get bit again. 

It is obvious that you love him and truly want to do well by him. I think neutering and muzzling is an excellent idea as is building a 6 foot privacy fence and returning to square one with training and especially NILIF. And please don't be upset with him for doing this. If one of your kids hurt another child in a fight you would work hard to figure out why your child did it. I hope your family will do the same with your dog. 

The vaccination and lymes disease could have something to do with it but your dog is also reaching an age where these types of behaviors come up, especially with unneutered males. The chain scenario is also a set up for problems and all kinds of aggression (territorial and fear come to mind). 

Please keep us updated.


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## Thors

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. Let me add some more detail.

The double-jeopardy law states that if a dog bites a second time the owner if liable for double damages, the dog will be euthanized, and criminal prosecution can be ordered. It makes keeping him a VERY big decision for us. I love him like one of my own children, but I can not risk losing my house. If I lived alone I wouldn't think twice, but I have a family that I am responsible to. It's not a deal breaker, but like I said, it's a huge decision and my wife has to feel comfortable with it for it to work.

The lead that broke is in the back of the house. My guess would be the lead snapped and he was tootling around enjoying a little free alone time when he heard or saw the jogger. My driveway is about 150 feet. I didn't see this part, but he likely came tearing down the driveway like a mad dog. As BowWow said, she must have been scared to death. Her screams will be with me forever, they were those of someone afraid for her life. I know the protocol when a dog charges, and even then I think I would have reacted the same. He's a big boy and can be extremely intimidating. All this happened in less than a two minute time frame from when I went in the back door to running out the front door. I play it over and over in my head.

He's been NILIF'd from day one but needs much more. I did not work with a true behaviorist, so again I take the blame. In hindsight I should have seen this as a possible outcome. I hate hindsight...

The reason I say keeping him is not an option at this time is purely in concern for my wife. We've had a series of things in our lives that caused us great stress, won't go into that here. This was the tipping point for her and almost put her in the hospital, and not the injury type of hospital. She's already started some intensive therapy to help get through this. She has softened a bit and we spent time with him out in the kennel (my house was previously owned by a breeder so I have an attached 40ft kennel building). She loves him and does not want to give up on him, but is still adamant that he needs to find a new home. If over the coming days she starts to feel better about keeping him, he stays, but right now I will not even consider it. I support her 100% in this and we will make the final call together.

As far as trainers in the area, the only one I've found so far is Vom Winhaus Shepherds in Exeter RI owned by Bob & Marianne Winski. I have not spoken with them yet and do not know if they can help. Any feed back would be appreciated. I will also call the Tufts Behavioral center and see what they have to say. For now, I continue to play with him in the kennel and give him all the love I can. It gets harder and harder to think about what may come, but I'm trying to live in the now and enjoy his company while I can.

If anyone knows of any trainers in RI that may be able to help, please post them. I can travel within reason so CT and MA are also an option. Can't do anything until the 10 days is up but I'd like to have something setup for that 11th day.

Oh, one last thought. Best place to get a muzzle for him? Best kind of muzzle? I have a cheapo mesh muzzle that is next to useless so I must find a good one ASAP.


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## jarn

I use the police muzzle from Elite K9 for Teagan anytime we're outside and for walks. It's extremely solid and a good price as well.

http://www.elitek9.com/Muzzles/index.htm

Here's a pic of her wearing it so you can see what it's like:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2750574&l=b8a92d8701&id=630190844
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2750576&l=60ec1a49b0&id=630190844

For running and longer walks in hot weather we have a wire muzzle for faster air flow, but this is a great all-purpose muzzle and extremely solid. Teagan has no problems wearing it at all (whoever owned her before muzzle trained her).


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## Thors

Thanks Jarn, those look nice. Good padding.

I also found http://www.fordogtrainers.com and they have quite a few. If anyone has experience with them please let me know.

I'm going to wait for a few opinons before I go ahead and order anything.


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## Winkin

> Originally Posted By: Christian2009I'm sure the woman acting like a spaz didn't help the situation any. I hate when people get so darn excited around my dogs...some people just don't know any better.


Umm...no offense, but your example is completely different than this man's situation.

Also, it doesn't sound like she acted like a "spaz." A big, unfamiliar dog was barking and or moving towards her. You better believe 99/100 people are going to run or try to get away. It's the only logical thing to do. Not everyone has friendly dogs.

To the OP: I don't really have much else to add to your situation, but I wish you good luck and hope that you are able to keep your GS and everything turns out okay.


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## jarn

> Originally Posted By: ThorsThanks Jarn, those look nice. Good padding.
> 
> I also found http://www.fordogtrainers.com and they have quite a few. If anyone has experience with them please let me know.
> 
> I'm going to wait for a few opinons before I go ahead and order anything.


Never used fordogtrainers.com, so I can't say. Elite K9 has had great customer service, I've bought stuff from them a few times. Very good to work with determining sizing, very contactable, and fast too (esp. to Canada, which always surprises me but is nice).


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## luvu2

Would the double jepirdy follow to the new owner?

I do not envy you and will keep you in my prayers.


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## Thors

Jarn, thanks for the info. That's +1 for Elite K9.

Michelle, I don't know for sure. I do know that giving him to anyone still leaves a potential liability for me. I would only house him with an accomplised trainer I fully trusted which severely limits my ability to place him. Thanks for the prayers, I need them.


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## Dee Phillips

I still believe alot of over reaction is going on , this dog isnt agressive, maybe alittle prey drive driven, but the way she reacted was part of how trainers teach bite , Remember they use a dogs natural instints to train to a higher level ,on command, yours did a normal thing for a young untrained dog, just fence and give the dog a job.You already have good natural behavior in prey drive, protection, and control in a hiper situtation. All are normal ,the only thing was it running into a women who was behaving oddly. Not the dogs fault but was the fault of your equipment. Dont give up as there is nothing wrong with the dog, but kenneling might change that,your seperating it from its pack and will stress the dog and after the hold ,it will coming home looking for normal or direction. Im worried abot the title of agressive when he is quite normal for its age and what can happen to him if the title sticks.best


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## Chris Wild

A lot of misinformation there about protection training. This behavior is not appropriate for a protection trained dog, or in a dog suitable for protection training.

But I don't think the dog is a hopeless cause either. It could be prey driven, could be fear based, could be territoriality... could be any combination of those things. Without seeing it there is no way to tell.

John (Zeus) gave EXCELLENT advice.

Working with a good behaviorist and trainer is the optimal situation as it will give the dog and owners the skills needed to prevent anything like this from occurring in the future. But considering the home/family situation, it's understandable that may not be an option here.

And on muzzles... the big leather muzzle shown in the thread from Elite K9 is way overkill. That sort of muzzle is designed for muzzle fighting... a protection training technique where the dog uses the muzzle as a battering ram against the "bad guy". Very large, heavy, uncomfortable and expensive for the sort of muzzle use that may be needed here. A wire basket muzzle or plastic muzzle like the Jafco and Ramco styles is perfectly sufficient, cheaper, and will be cooler, lighter weight and thus much more comfortable for the dog.


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## jarn

I do agree that the police muzzle is....more extreme? And yes, it's designed for muzzle fighting (proofing the dog off of suits/hidden sleeves etc) and is heavy (Teagan's clunked me with it in the eye while I was lying down). 

I like it b/c it's so solid, but the OP may find it too much. If you live in a hot climate too you might want to think about that. I wanted to get Teagan a fighting muzzle b/c they are such solid, solid muzzles, and this is the most affordable one I could find. 

Certainly, it is not the muzzle we use on runs/longer walks. 

Edit to add I also think Chris' point that without seeing the dog, it's difficult to tell what's going on (especially given some posts doing just that). While I love forums, the internet really isn't the place to diagnose a dog. Experienced behaviouralists/trainers are the best route for that.


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## RavenSophi

> Originally Posted By: Winkin
> 
> Also, it doesn't sound like she acted like a "spaz." A big, unfamiliar dog was barking and or moving towards her. You better believe 99/100 people are going to run or try to get away. It's the only logical thing to do. Not everyone has friendly dogs.


Nonsense, she acted like a 'spaz' period. Any sensible dog person would know what NOT to do...she did all of it! Ever hear of stand still? I am sorry she got bitten but if she knew anything the situation would be much 'severe'...! It is not the logical thing to do, the logical thing is to stand still. Any 'logical' person would know that you can't outrun a dog and thus would stand still and cover his/her face. Friendly dogs have nothing to do with it...education however has. 

To the poor owner of this dog, please do not act too fast. Think this through. There is no reason why you have to give this dog away. With proper training and socializing he will be more than fine. You can also take extra precautions so that something like this won't happen again. You are going to struggle to re-home him so the best thing for him and YOU to do is keep him and put some extra time into his training, etc. I don't think it is fair to put this dog down and that is what is going to happen if you try to re-home him because not a lot of people will take a dog with a 'bite record'. Again, think this through.


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## RavenSophi

Sorry...too late too edit...meant to say the situation would be less severe.


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## Fodder

> Originally Posted By: RavenSophi
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: Winkin
> 
> Also, it doesn't sound like she acted like a "spaz." A big, unfamiliar dog was barking and or moving towards her. You better believe 99/100 people are going to run or try to get away. It's the only logical thing to do. Not everyone has friendly dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense, she acted like a 'spaz' period. Any sensible dog person would know what NOT to do...she did all of it! Ever hear of stand still? I am sorry she got bitten but if she knew anything the situation would be much 'severe'...! It is not the logical thing to do, the logical thing is to stand still. Any 'logical' person would know that you can't outrun a dog and thus would stand still and cover his/her face. Friendly dogs have nothing to do with it...education however has.
Click to expand...

although this is getting off topic - i have to ask if you've been charged by an (as most in her situation would regard - aggressive) dog... remained calm... gotten bit... and continued to remain calm? 

in this womans defense - i believe its more than fair to throw "logic" out the door. just as people can go thru countless self defense classes and still draw a blank in the moment of an attack. also in her defense - just as no one can accurately judge the dog without being there - i believe it is unfair to judge this woman based on the perception of the OP, who has also admitted to not witnessing the entire incident. "out run a dog" -- we're also assuming that she was trying to - again - without being present, how can anyone (aside of course from the OP) know that there wasnt a fence or truck or something else in the vicinity that she was hoping to making it to? the word "spaz" is subjective and not a part of everyones vocabulary... 

lets just leave it be... continue to help and support the OP and wait to see how things pan out.

eta: as a "sensible dog person" there is no way i can speak now for what i'd do in a moment such as the one we're discussing. i know what i SHOULD do... what i'd LIKE to be able to do... and what MIGHT work, but fear can be more powerful than logic.


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## RavenSophi

Yes, I've been charged by an 'aggressive' dog, once when i was 14 and another time when I was older. Even when I was 14 I knew I was supposed to stand still. The dog charged...barking, showing teeth...and even at 14 I knew to stand still. Yes, I wanted to run, but I KNEW not to. I don't think dogs can be charged for the stupidity of humans. They always get put down or re-homed because a human did something wrong. That is unfair. I think the woman needs to accept responsibility for the broken wrist at most! I mean why on earth would you run backwards?


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## RavenSophi

Just to get it right, I'm not completely blaming her. There can be blamed placed on the owner of the dog too...I'm just saying, if she did the basics...there might not have been a bite.


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## Pedders

> Originally Posted By: RavenSophiYes, I've been charged by an 'aggressive' dog, once when i was 14 and another time when I was older. Even when I was 14 I knew I was supposed to stand still. The dog charged...barking, showing teeth...and even at 14 I knew to stand still. Yes, I wanted to run, but I KNEW not to. I don't think dogs can be charged for the stupidity of humans. They always get put down or re-homed because a human did something wrong. That is unfair. I think the woman needs to accept responsibility for the broken wrist at most! I mean why on earth would you run backwards?


With the greatest respect, this is ridiculous. The woman did absolutely nothing to bring about the situation, apart from going about her business on a public road! 

You're obviously blessed with steady nerves; most people are not. Many people are terrified of large dogs and even "dog people" can be frightened by any dog charging them, let alone a GSD. 

I don't believe aportioning blame anywhere in this situation does anyone any good, but to blame the jogger is again, ridiculous.


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## BowWowMeow

Blaming the victim is not useful or warranted. The OP isn't looking to blame anyone; he's looking for advice on how to handle the situation.


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## jake

I am 3 yrs into a dog bite incident-please be careful what you say and post until you are sure there will not be lawsuit.Feel free to e-mail me


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## RavenSophi

> Originally Posted By: PeddersWith the greatest respect, this is ridiculous. The woman did absolutely nothing to bring about the situation, apart from going about her business on a public road!
> 
> You're obviously blessed with steady nerves; most people are not. Many people are terrified of large dogs and even "dog people" can be frightened by any dog charging them, let alone a GSD.
> 
> I don't believe aportioning blame anywhere in this situation does anyone any good, but to blame the jogger is again, ridiculous.


I'm not trying to place blame on a single person, be that the owner or jogger. I just think it is unfair to take away all 'responsibility' from the jogger. I'm just saying that if she/he listened or payed attention to normal behavior of dogs this might have been less severe. I also think the owner should take some responsibility for leaving the dog unsupervised but he already acknowledged so much.


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## BowWowMeow

> Originally Posted By: RavenSophi
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: PeddersWith the greatest respect, this is ridiculous. The woman did absolutely nothing to bring about the situation, apart from going about her business on a public road!
> 
> You're obviously blessed with steady nerves; most people are not. Many people are terrified of large dogs and even "dog people" can be frightened by any dog charging them, let alone a GSD.
> 
> I don't believe aportioning blame anywhere in this situation does anyone any good, but to blame the jogger is again, ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to place blame on a single person, be that the owner or jogger. I just think it is unfair to take away all 'responsibility' from the jogger. I'm just saying that if she/he listened or payed attention to normal behavior of dogs this might have been less severe. I also think the owner should take some responsibility for leaving the dog unsupervised but he already acknowledged so much.
Click to expand...

Stop already! The jogger has NO responsibility for a dog charging and then biting her! It is solely our responsibility as the guardians of our dogs to keep them from situations like this. Our dogs lives depend on it.


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## Fodder

> Originally Posted By: RavenSophiI just think it is unfair to take away all 'responsibility' from the jogger. I'm just saying that if she/he listened or payed attention to normal behavior of dogs this might have been less severe.


its no ones _responsibility_ to know how to react in this situation. nor is it required for people to be dog savvy. a barking/charging dog with a broken leash is also not _normal_.


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## RavenSophi

I agree, it is our responsibility to keep our pets from situations like these but it is also a citizens responsibility to be educated. I would by no means take the blame away from Blake if he ever did something like this...I would however acknowledge the acts, wrong or right from the jogger.


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## RavenSophi

I don't know, maybe it is different in SA but we're told from a young age how to act around an aggressive dog. We encountered a few on our way to school, so no, i can't understand people who don't follow 'rules' when it comes to that. And I DO expect someone to be 'dog savvy' when going for jogs in a neighborhood.


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## Fodder

i understand what you're saying raven - i do, but at the same time, in your most recent reply... you say that YOU were told/taught from a young age, YOU can't understand how "rules" aren't followed (also noting that this isnt actually a rule) and YOU expect joggers to be dog savvy.









these are your individual opinions and personal values.

ETA: lets please respect the OP's request below me. my apologies Thors.


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## Thors

Please, no more back and forth. It just doesn't matter now. I need help moving forward, so to get this back on track:

Any recommendations for behaviorists near RI that haven't already been listed?

Any more recommendations on muzzles? ( I like the ones I saw, but more options and info is always better than less )


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## selzer

Thors, I am really sorry that you are going through this. You absolutely have to do what is best for your human family first. I hope that you can keep and work with this young dog that you obviously like. 

Frankly, I dread this scenario worse than bloat or cancer. 

There are a lot of people who know an awful lot about aggression in dogs and how to work with dogs that have bitten on this site. It is a great place for information. Stick around, you will find that there is excellent advice and some that is less good. 

The jogger went through a terrifying and painful ordeal. Her initial response may be to throw the book at you. You did good to offer to pay her expenses and to apologize. It is possible that she will come around after she relaxes and heals a bit. 

As bad as it was, your dog did not continue to bite the woman. I think that this is VERY good. Also, did you say that he came back to you? Most truly aggressive dogs get into a fight mode where they literally cannot be called off and must be dragged off. And your dog is young. He definitely sounds like a dog that is worth the effort to help. 

Welcome to the site and good luck with your boy.


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## Thors

> Originally Posted By: ZeusGSDI'm sorry, this sucks. It could have been a prey bite which followed the initial territorial fear response, who knows. You will not be able to place him anywhere with the bite incident, so your options are to either put him down or get control of him. Personally I would do everything in my power to avoid option #1, so lets focus on what can be done and how that applies to your liability right now...
> 
> 1. Neuter him ASAP. It can bring down aggression in general. Not guaranteed to, but it's easy and shows you are very serious about this problem.
> 
> 2. No more tie outs EVER, especially in the front of the house. It's an invitation to disaster leaving a dog that is territorial at all tied up in plain sight of pedestrians. Best option would be to fence your back yard or part of your yard to make a run if the back yard is too big to fence (you said you're in the country). 6' privacy is the best option if possible. Again, this shows you are serious about the situation.
> 
> 3. Condition him to a muzzle. It sounds like you don't need it in the house or anything, but you will need to get him out for heavy socialization and you will need to be calm and in charge when you do. The muzzle will help you and your wife be calm and confident knowing that nobody can get bit.
> 
> 4. Enlist the help of a trainer/behavioralist ASAP. Get him evaluated and into classes. Bounce trainers off of everyone here on the board, we can help you find someone that can help.
> 
> 5. Your dog has lost all decision making authority. His only decision should be to look to you, or your family for guidance when assessing any new situation. It takes some conditioning and training to achieve, but it can be done and this should be the focus of any trainer along with socialization and teaching you to recognize his body language so you know when something will happen before it actually does. This means you control all interaction with visitors around the house - on leash.
> 
> You reacted properly when the incident happened, and if you follow through on the above nobody can say you did not react and take things seriously. Good luck.


John, I think I missed this in the barrrage of posts that came through, or I just skimmed it. I am going to follow this pretty much word for word. Thank you.

The fence in the backyard is gonna be tough. On a slightly off topic tangent, has anyone done a fence through thickly wooded terain and any idea how much it will cost per foot? I know I can't dig 2 inches without hitting a bolder, so I'm sure it's gonna cost me a fortune. I just finished clear cutting about a half acre so we could have more of a yard so I'm thinking of fencing at least that for now. It will wait until I get full details from animal control but thinking about it keeps my mind off other things for now.


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## selzer

Make it at least six feet tall. A fence is a wonderful tool and will be a great asset, but it is not a dog sitter. Dogs dig under and climb over fences. Some even jump over them. Six feet tall is standard for a GSD. If you go with privacy fencing it eliminates some issues, like fence fighting. 

You do not need to fence in a huge area. 20 feet by 40 feet would be good. Of course the more area the better opportunity you will have to play with your dog, let him run, and train off-lead. It is nice if the back door opens into this area, so in the morning, you are not fumbling with a lead to take him to potty, etc. 

Once the fence is complete, make it a point to ONLY take him out through the back. Make the front door completely off limits. If you train this so that the dog is solid in this, he will be much less likely to slip out in a moment of carelessness by a family member or a visitor.


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## trudy

I am sorry your dog went after this woman, but I have another thought, years ago I got a call at work that my German Shepherd had mauled a child in my back yard,where he was left out in a fenced yard. The neighbor child was 3. I raced home sick to my stomach to find the police in my driveway. I was shaking so bad I could barely get out when 2 officers climbed out. They said they wanted to meet the GS that mauled the child and left NO marks. Seems the child had crawled under a spot in the fence to play with the dog and was rolling around being licked when the mom saw what appeared to be the dog mauling him. She screamed and ran over with another neighbour pulled out the child and ran to the emergency room for his injuries, but he didn't have any, his cries were fear of their screams. The dog did nothing. Another neighbor had cleared the air when they called the police and told they saw the whole thing and the dog had done nothing. I had been called by the neighbor's husband who was the dad. 

The reason I say this is there may not be a bite, the broken wrist and perhaps butt scrapes could be from her running, not that he should get away with this but your liability would be less. 

And if you have an attached kennel why was he tied out? Chains/cables what ever are the worst and can trip up children and help make dogs more aggressive. Good luck, I hope my scenario is what yours becomes. Ask for photos of the "bite" and be sure it is a bite.


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## dd

What a great story! Thanks for sharing that.


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## middleofnowhere

Yes, this is one that's been on my list of worrisome things, too.

Yes, the jogger did everything wrong. Screaming in fear does nothing to deter an animal. But people do "wrong" things sometimes. (Yes I have been charged by dogs - one GSD that would "get" me every other day as I walked to work - boy did I jump! Bet the dog loved it. I didn't. I cursed the dog's heritage.) 

This story makes me very sad because it sounds so bad for the young exhuberant GSD who was just having a good time. And I'm betting that's exactly what it was - person running = chase. Person yelling = chase & bite.


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## meisha98

You definately have your hands full and it is not going to be an easy decision. Please don't give up on your dog. He is young and I do understand your predicament. IMO others have given some great ideas- desensitizing, fencing, muzzling etc. Make it a point to check your equipment (leads, collars, tie-outs etc, ) regularly to prevent any opportunities. Make your wife and family part of the processes and training if she/they can, and that will make you all feel more in control of the situation and your lives. This is a terrible thing to have happen but it is also a good learning opportunity for all of us also. I'm glad it wasn't worse. Good luck with you decidion and I don't think your dog is aggressive, just an unfortunate set of circumstances.


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## Timber1

Blaming the lady that was attacked is simply ridiculous. After all, the dog went after her and most people do not know how to respond when a straight, and large dog heads for them.

My dog has done this a few times, as I mentioned in a prior post, it is entirely my fault. 

One post said a dog should not be blamed for the stupidy of humans. So if a jogger runs from a dog and gets bitten or sustains an injury, the same person seemed to strongly imply it is the Jogger's fault.

How silly. As for the OP, I tend to think that dog will be just fine.


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## Liesje

I think John (ZeusGSD) gave the best advice. Like Sue said, it's telling that your dog bit once (doesn't sound like the bite was that severe?) knocked the woman over, but did not continue to bite. That's a good sign, if any good can come of this.

To me this sounds like a dog that needs more leadership and socialization and this was really a prey bite. I think that a dog that is truly aggressive will do some real damage when given the chance. I'm not saying this to make light of the situation or remove the responsibility, but it helps to understand what motivates the dog when they bite.

My own GSD, who came to me very fearful and skittish of people and strangers would have done this same thing to my own husband. One time we were out in the yard and I don't know what he was doing, pretending to play football or something but he quickly turned and ran and our own dog gave a quick growl, took off, and gave a nip at his heel. She didn't actually get him and he laughed it off but that was a wake-up call for me. My trainer/behaviorist believes it was prey motivated but also a dog that has fearful tendencies wants to stop the behavior. When I yelled for my husband to stop, my dog stopped and walked away like nothing happened, just like your dog didn't commence attacking the woman after she fell.


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## jennafetherolf

I am very sorry to hear about your situation and so very glad to hear how responsible you are being to correct for it. You had asked about fencing in a wooded lot.......there is a site if you google "best friend fence" that offers a "heavy duty" dog fence that is built like a deer fence so it is extremly high and you don't have to dig into the ground to put it up. I am awaiting mine to arrive any day now. i think the site is http://www.bennersgardens.com but I could be wrong so try the google if that doesn't work. Our prayers are with you and your family.


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## ahlamarana

> Originally Posted By: ThorsAny more recommendations on muzzles? ( I like the ones I saw, but more options and info is always better than less )


I got the Invisible Muzzle from Elite K9 just yesterday and I like it a lot. The dog accepted it readily, he can drink and pant with it on, and you can feed tiny treats through the holes. It's easy to put on, the plastic is thick and very flexible, and I think it looks less intimidating to the general public (also it doesn't hurt if he bumps into you with it). I would stay away from the plastic basket muzzles, they don't look very safe to me. 

I also can't say enough about the great service and speed of processing from Elite K9.


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## big_dog7777

> Originally Posted By: ThorsThe fence in the backyard is gonna be tough. On a slightly off topic tangent, has anyone done a fence through thickly wooded terain and any idea how much it will cost per foot? I know I can't dig 2 inches without hitting a bolder, so I'm sure it's gonna cost me a fortune. I just finished clear cutting about a half acre so we could have more of a yard so I'm thinking of fencing at least that for now. It will wait until I get full details from animal control but thinking about it keeps my mind off other things for now.


Thors you are very welcome. It's easy to sink time into answering someone that obviously cares about their family and dog, reacted properly when an incident happens and then reaches out for help. I live in fear of these types of situations - I have a dog that has protection training and is reactive/territorial along with having some barrier aggression. We are working on it, he's come a long way but I need to keep him under my thumb at all times. 

I don't know about your financial situation, but putting up a 6' fence around a half acre will cost serious dough. Close to 20K I would bet at least. I would entertain the idea of only fencing part of the yard for either a run, or a small "upper back yard". Don't forget to padlock the gate or gates that are not in immediate sight (or all of them if kids are involved who often leave things open). 

Good luck.


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## big_dog7777

> Originally Posted By: ahlamaranaI also can't say enough about the great service and speed of processing from Elite K9.


I as well have had nothing but good experiences with Elite K9.


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## big_dog7777

> Originally Posted By: Liesje Like Sue said, it's telling that your dog bit once (doesn't sound like the bite was that severe?) knocked the woman over, but did not continue to bite. That's a good sign, if any good can come of this.
> 
> To me this sounds like a dog that needs more leadership and socialization and this was really a prey bite. I think that a dog that is truly aggressive will do some real damage when given the chance. I'm not saying this to make light of the situation or remove the responsibility, but it helps to understand what motivates the dog when they bite.


Like Chris mentioned, it's impossible to be certain but I'd guess it was an initial fear/territorial response from the dog. Once he got there, all of the erratic movement away from him put him into prey drive instinctually which is why he bit her behind. True aggression/fight would mean that he'd be almost impossible to call off of her (especially since he's had no formal training in that area) and he would continue to attack her even when she was on the ground. These actions combined with how well he does with the family kids leads me to the conclusion that he just needs some work. Obviously, don't believe me 100% until someone that knows what they are doing sees this dog interact with all situations in person.


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## debbiebrown

i am sorry for what happened to you. i agree to get with a trainer/behaviorist for guidence on this. a human bite is something that none of us ever want to see with our dogs, its a very disappointing situation to say the least. i think most owners reaction to this would be rehoming the dog etc. but, i do believe in this case the dog should be given the chance with the proper training. its a huge commitment on your part to follow through with the advice given by a professional. but you can work with this. i am speaking from experience i have had similar situations.

i can see a dog breaking chain and maybe going after animal prey, but a human prey thing tells me he has not the ability to determine whats a threat and what is not. maybe the frustration of being tied out watching things go by has definitely made things worse.
we all as dog owners have made mistakes the important thing is that you pick up from here learn from them, and move on in a positive way.

good luck to you,
debbie


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## Brightelf

This is meant to offer some comfort, not to diminish how upsetting this is for you and all involved. 

Tie-out chains can cause tension. Tension can ramp up aggression, excitement, drive to chase when visually stimulated. So many do put dogs on tie-outs. But, when a dog can visually be stimulated seeing someone jog by, this can, combined with the restriction of being on a chain, send drive, frustration, aggression, overexcitement through the roof. Then when a chain breaks suddenly, the dog is shocked, startled, already overstimulated and tense from being held back.. and now a length of chain is chasing him after the fleeing woman. I am suggesting, a different way to contain the dog may help. A behaviorist, too. I am again not saying that this is not upsetting, that there may or may not be temperament issues involved.. but a dog on a chain has all his switched flipped to "ON" when anything runs by. 

Good luck with the behaviorist. I am wishing the very best for your dog-- and you and your family, too!


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## JeffM

> Originally Posted By: RavenSophiJust to get it right, I'm not completely blaming her. There can be blamed placed on the owner of the dog too...I'm just saying, if she did the basics...there might not have been a bite.


If I didn't know better, I'd say you had a dog that attacked someone...it's the only reason I can think of where anyone can blame a person for being attacked by a dog.


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## middleofnowhere

Jeff, for some of us here part of it is knowing dog behavior and how they react. I don't really see the search for "why" or the explanations as to "why" as necessarily blaming the person who was bitten. (Some people did seem to do that.) However, screaming people DO inspire dogs to chase and bite. If people realized that, there would be even fewer incidents. 

Regarding the fence - If the OP does 1/2 privacy & 1/2 woven wire he can probably get it done for around 5k. I live on a very rocky hillside & my fence was less than that - only a very small part of it was already there.


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## JeffM

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereHowever, screaming people DO inspire dogs to chase and bite. If people realized that, there would be even fewer incidents.


If everybody knew everything it would be a perfect world wouldn't it?


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## middleofnowhere

Jeff, No that would not make a perfect world. To make a perfect world ... well, we'd have to start with people being kind and using their knowledge wisely and kindly with the benefit of all in mind. 
It would make a very boring world if everyone knew everything -- it would be a pointless world I think.


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## JeffM

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereIt would make a very boring world if everyone knew everything -- it would be a pointless world I think.


Indeed.


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## lcht2

> Originally Posted By: RavenSophiJust to get it right, I'm not completely blaming her. There can be blamed placed on the owner of the dog too...I'm just saying, if she did the basics...there might not have been a bite.


i would blame the POS tie out and the lack of socializeation on the onwers part..

yes joggers trigger prey drive and im sure that most of us on this board have had our dogs react to joggers like a bunny rabbit. with proper socializeing you will teach the dog that a jogger is not a bunny rabbit or a threat and that they are to be left alone. period.

i cant say that the OP's dog was triggered by prey, could've been a number of things. BUT your not owning everybody's loveable golden retiever either...your owning one of the worlds most powerfull breeds of dog. learn that, understand that, respect that, and most of all, properly own that..you wouldnt go out and buy a .357 mag without learning how to use one would you??? no..you would learn how it works and how to use one, same goes with a powerfull breed such and the German Shepherd Dog.


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## lcht2

and for further record..dont buy the cheap tie outs you get at your local pet store.

go to the local hardware store and buy a chain and put heavy duty clips on it..gaurantee to rust apart before breaking. also another thing to think about it useing 2 collars when tieing the dog out...i use a 2 inch flat leather collar and a choker..in case he slips the flat collar the choker will still have him..the choker is just a safety and i would never tie a dog out with ONLY a choker on..


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## selzer

You can get cheap 8'long x 6' high wood panels for approximately $27. This is what I did. 

Along the sides and front, I put these panels. A 40' long side would cost $135 in panels. Then you need some four by four posts, and concrete to set the posts, and screws. A bucked of paint or stain is an added touch that I could not afford at this time. Remember -- this is for show, not for leaving your dog there all day as a doggy sitter. 

It is not the prettyest fencing on the block, but it is sturdy and functional. 









The back is simple wire horse fence with T posts, but I overlook a ravine in that direction with no chance of people back there:









close up:









If you use the house for one side you can make a pretty safe fence and not break the bank. Fencing that side cost me $600 including having my contractor put it up for me.


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## selzer

The stair step look is because I am on a hill. But it really doesn't look all that bad. I feel 100% safe letting puppies and dogs run and play in there. 

By adding the three panels to the side with the house I increased the yard size by 24' x 40' for about $100. I could have stained it for that I suppose. 

Since I have a couple of sheds on the other side, I only needed three panels on that side to cut off the view from my kennels to the neighbors. 

The yard does not have to be as large as this, but it would be good to have the ability to add on.


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## selzer

Icht2,

I bought cow chain from the local hardware store. I put those heavy duty clips on it. The clips would still fatigue every so many months. That is how Frodo got hit by a car and had his leg shattered. 

I would never tie a dog out with a choker chain attached. A choker chain is a training collar and that is all it is. Frodo nearly died lying on the deck with a choke chain on. I will never leave a choker on a dog, maybe a martingale though. 

This dog that the OP has been posting about has been showing increasing aggression to his visitors as well. I am all for not allowing your dog to roam and letting him out briefly on a chain to potty. But I am afraid that the chaining isn't helping matters for this dog.


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## WiscTiger

A friend of mine has the fence like Selzer posted and she asked if we could help her put the wire fence on the inside of her privacy fence because the dogs keep knocking the boards loose and getting out. I wouldn't tust my dogs with a privacy fence if I had a problem dog.

Val


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## sitstay

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerA friend of mine has the fence like Selzer posted and she asked if we could help her put the wire fence on the inside of her privacy fence because the dogs keep knocking the boards loose and getting out. I wouldn't tust my dogs with a privacy fence if I had a problem dog.
> 
> Val


I can second this, based on my first hand knowledge. I have a 6' privacy fence and every so often I have a foster that is really into fence fighting. That kind of pressure on the fence (from a dog hitting it in the act of fence fighting) will eventually unseat the board. It only takes one picket to become loose to allow a dog to get out of the fence.
I would highly recommend an interior barrier of some type to keep the dog(s) off the wooden fence. 
Sheilah


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## lcht2

> Originally Posted By: selzerIcht2,
> 
> I bought cow chain from the local hardware store. I put those heavy duty clips on it. The clips would still fatigue every so many months. That is how Frodo got hit by a car and had his leg shattered.
> 
> I would never tie a dog out with a choker chain attached. A choker chain is a training collar and that is all it is. Frodo nearly died lying on the deck with a choke chain on. I will never leave a choker on a dog, maybe a martingale though.
> 
> This dog that the OP has been posting about has been showing increasing aggression to his visitors as well. I am all for not allowing your dog to roam and letting him out briefly on a chain to potty. But I am afraid that the chaining isn't helping matters for this dog.


i didnt say keep the dog primarily on a choker..the choker is a "safety net." clip the flat and choker to the tie out. the choker has no effect unless the dog slips the flat collar. if the dog slips the flat collar, the choker will pull tight and not let the dog loose. therefore keeping the dog on the tie-out and not letting the dog loose to bite a jogger in the OP's case. look at the whole scenario..which would you rather deal with..dog on two collars on a tie out or a bite victum??? i choose 2 collars...

no chaining isnt going to help, im just giveing further advice as far as tieing out the dog.


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## angelaw

look if you tie out/chain a dog most of it's life it's going to be aggressive. either take the dog off the chain and treat it like a member of the family or rehome the dog. 

If the dog is too far gone aggression wise, then do him a favor, put him out of his suffering, and to please not get another dog unless you're willing to get rid of the tie-out and do formal training from day 1.


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## angelaw

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerA friend of mine has the fence like Selzer posted and she asked if we could help her put the wire fence on the inside of her privacy fence because the dogs keep knocking the boards loose and getting out. I wouldn't tust my dogs with a privacy fence if I had a problem dog.
> 
> Val


But really, why would you have your dog out there unsupervised? I have 5 acres, fenced. But dogs will be dogs, I know they could dig out, etc. Nobody is outside without a person with them around here.


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## WiscTiger

This dog in question, I wouldn't. But there are times when my dogs are outside in a fenced in area by themselves. I can keep and eye on them from the house, but I have a business and I can't be outside 8 hours a day. With 4 dogs that is about 2 hours a day when they can be a dog away from me. Plus add in the play time and some training and I run out of hours to be around my dogs when ever they are outside.

Each person has their own comfort level with dogs being outside. It depends on my dogs and what is going on inside and outside.

Val


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## Meb

So sorry to hear your story. Being a runner and also a GSD owner I can understand both sides. Advice to any other runners out there, I carry dog bones in one hand and mase in the other. It is the dogs choice. I also live out in the country where no one ties up their dogs. Every spring I go to the neighboring houses and bring dog bones and make friends with the dogs. I have also attended a 3 day dog behavior seminar at Wolf Park so I know what to do when a dog does come out at me. Stand still like a tree with no eye contact and let the dog smell me. --No touch, no talk, no eye contact-- I also know "cut off signals" like turning to the side and move some dirt around with my foot. This shows the dog that I am not a threat and just minding my own business. Never face a dog straight on. There is only one dog "Sasha" about a mile and 1/2 from me that I have tried to meet but he growled at me and would not even let me out of the car. When I told the owner that I have an invisible fence he just said that he moved to the country so he would not have to tie up his dog. I will try to make friends with Sasha again but it is scary for me to run past that house. I am "on guard" and have my mase ready if needed. Once again I understand both sides, a person cant help it if they are scared. Best of luck to you and your GDS.


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## jarn

I'm a runner and a GSD owner too. 

The bottom line is, the owner is ALWAYS responsible for the behaviour of the dog. It is the OWNER'S responsibility to ensure the dog does not bite and never is placed in a situation where it may do so. And I speak as the owner of a dog that has tried to kill another dog.

I think the OP in this case has stepped up, so kudos to him. But I just wanted to comment on this ridiculous 'who's to blame' comments.


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## tony123

Lots of silly comments in this thread....

To the OP, my prayers are with you and your family in all that lies ahead related to this unfortunate incident. It makes me realize that I get to relaxed with my new pup. She's never made the slightest aggresive behavior to people, and that's part of my problem. I take her personality for granted and forget about what might be instinct to her. 

This thread has prompted me to not get to lazy in her care. Just the other day I had someone come by the house that she's never met. I let her run out to the driveway while telling the man she was friendly. When she got to him, she paused for just a second before licking him. In that second, my heart sank. Over reacting? maybe...but that's my job.









Truely best wishes in this and keep us informed as best you can.


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## Meb

> Originally Posted By: jarnI'm a runner and a GSD owner too.
> 
> The bottom line is, the owner is ALWAYS responsible for the behaviour of the dog. It is the OWNER'S responsibility to ensure the dog does not bite and never is placed in a situation where it may do so. And I speak as the owner of a dog that has tried to kill another dog.
> 
> I think the OP in this case has stepped up, so kudos to him. But I just wanted to comment on this ridiculous 'who's to blame' comments.


agreed 100 %...just trying to give others some pointers for what to do "just in case"


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## selzer

I thought that I was clear that this type of fencing is not a dog sitter while you are away. 

However, I feel perfectly safe with my dogs in this type of fencing, and if I wanted to, I could be in the house with my dogs in the field. I would certainly not leave them out there for hours alone, they would dig holes in my yard and get muddy. Or leave them out there and go to workm they might dig under it. When my dogs are in the fields, I am out with them. If I am not out with them, they are in their kennels within the fencing. Kennels have concrete bases and are covered over. Fencing is my second line of defence. 

My dogs respect the four foot x-pens that keeps them out of the area behind the kennels where the grass doesn't grow and the mud is nasty. And not just because there is nothing exciting on the other side. I can have dogs that dislike each other in near field and far field, and they will not go over that four foot x-pen. (They respect baby gates too.)

I had a electric cattle fence running along the inside of my 5' wire horse fence and that basically kept them from going anywhere near any fence. Now they will poop up close to the fence. But they NEVER set a paw on it, or push into it. The cattle fence is gone now except for the gate and shed in Near field. They still don't bother the remaining horse fence without it. 

I like a cattle fence better than an invisible fence because the dog can see the wire and knows not to go near it. If he does hit it, he feels like it is his own fault and does not get a mysterious throb in his neck. The dogs do not have to wear collars or have batteries checked and the list goes on. Mostly, I do not have to train them when the fence is visible. They train themselves to leave it be. 

But the posts are already there, if you want to string horse fence (five foot wire fencing) along the inside of that fencing it certainly would not cost that much more -- about $25 for a 75' roll when I bought it a couple of years ago. Running a cattle fence would be another thought, that would definitely protect your fence. It is a pain when mowing though. 

The idea is that it does not need to cost $5000 to give you some peace of mind when it comes to playing with your dog off-lead or letting it out to potty. I guarantee you that dogs will make short work of a $5000 fence too. They learn to climb the fencing. They dig under the fencing. If dogs are left for extended time periods alone, they will find weak points in any fencing system. 

Thomas Fence quoted me something like that when I went inquiring. I am extremely happy that I never spent money like that for my fences.


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## Timber1

To John, from Leerburg, Tony amd Selzer.

It does not cost anyway near 20K to put up a fence on a 1/2 acre lot. I cannot because I live in a flood plain so we put up the tradional wire kennel; however my guy prefers sitting outside on a long line tied to my holding tank. If youknow anyone that would pay 20K for a fence let us know. I am not good at this stuff, but my kids is great.

To Tony, my guy was socailized from the time he was a pup. But at the advice of a behavior specialist, who charged $100 an hour I listened, and that was a big mistake. 

Selzer's comments to a large extent mirror my feelings. Worth reading.


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## big_dog7777

> Originally Posted By: Timber1It does not cost anyway near 20K to put up a fence on a 1/2 acre lot. I cannot because I live in a flood plain so we put up the tradional wire kennel; however my guy prefers sitting outside on a long line tied to my holding tank. If youknow anyone that would pay 20K for a fence let us know. I am not good at this stuff, but my kids is great.


That is good news. For me to have a contractor put up a fence around a 1/2 acre lot in the Chicagoland area would cost at least 20K. It cost me 6K to have a 6' privacy fence put up around my yard, which is tiny by comparison. I helped a buddy put up a fence 12 years ago (translation, ran an auger all day because I was the only one that it could not throw to the ground) and vowed never to do it again. 

Everyone, lets not forget that the OP is not someone that leaves their dog tied up outside all day and night. This is a situation where the dog was on a chain for a short period of time, and is part of their family. The dog is great with the family's children. The OP handled the incident 100% correctly and reached out for help here after it happened. Once the OP got suggestions, they did not take the easy way out and just put the dog down. They started working on it. This is something that can happen to any novice dog owner.


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## Cassidy's Mom

> Originally Posted By: Timber1It does not cost anyway near 20K to put up a fence on a 1/2 acre lot.


Labor costs vary widely from region to region, you just can't make the generalization that a fence wouldn't cost that much.


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## RebelGSD

It would cost that much around here.


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## jake

I paid $6000 dollars to enclose quarter acre of my land with a five foot chain link fence-very big investment-but best investment I made.I am in fairfield county CT prices real high.Some suggestions chain link is great it allows you to correct/train for people or dog aggression with your dog(privacy fence does not.)I would keep road distance at least 40 feet if you are in an area where high dog/people traffic occurs so that your dog does not daily have to deal with people running playing maybe appearing threatening to him-even worse stressor are out of control dogs on leash who mark challenge the fence line.The fenced area is a place where my dog can run play feel secure and is also his off lead training area.He is NEVER out there when I am not at home.


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## meisha98

I just put a PVC 6' fence (privacy with lattice at the top) around 3/4 of my less than half acre lot for about $5000. Mine got complicated because I put double gates across my driveway to totally secure my yard. Four quotes varied $5000-$7000 depending on time of year etc.


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## Mary Jane

Thors,

I think that the 10 days of quarantine have passed.

What are you plans for your boy?

thanks,
Mary Jane


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## Vivian

Thors,

I, too, have been through a similar situation in a city that has very strict "dangerous dog" laws. Especially with a young dog, facing years of double jeopardy can be very daunting. Best of luck with your decision, it is very ugly and gut wrenching to ponder these questions and my heart aches for you and your family.


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## Thors

All,
Thank you for all the great recommendations and support. 

Unfortunately, I have no news at this point. The animal control officer for my town was on vacation until this past Monday. When he got back he immediately came to my house and informed me we had to put my boy in the pound until a vicious dog hearing could be conducted. The current timeline for that is "some time within the next week" although I have yet to be able to get any more info. If the committee at the hearing deems him "vicious" there will be a host of stipulations to keeping him. The more difficult issue will be home owners insurance if/when they deem him "vicious".

It's very stressful and depressing right now. My wife is a bit more open to potentially working with him which is good news, but the insurance thing may be a show stopper. I will keep you guys updated as I get new info.


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## Thors

Oh, and on a even sadder note, the woman who was bit has been in for surgery once for her wrist and may have to go back. Just a terrible situation...


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## big_dog7777

Good news in regards to your wife. 

Here is an interesting link about liability coverage for your dog even if he has a bite history. http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/insurance.htm#Where%20to%20get%20dog%20owner%20liability%20insurance

One thing that nobody has mentioned is putting a CGC (canine good citizen) certification on him. The training required is what you will be going through with a trainer anyway, and it will go a long way to proving both your desire to "fix" the problem and to prove your dog is not a monster (which he's not). I'd even video record the test. 

Good luck, and thanks for the update.


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## angelaw

The only thing with dog liability insurance, which is a good thing, I looked into it years ago just to inquire, but I don't know if you could still get homeowner's ins even though they wouldn't cover it. That's the problem I ran into here in Florida as many ins. companies won't write policies if you have gsd, and when I asked even if I had a sep. liability policy, it didn't matter.

Oh and the dog HAS to be muzzled when off his property. (one thing I did NOT agree with, esp. with a dog w/o a bite history. This would just make people think the worst if the dog had done nothing to deserve it)


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## selzer

I am really sorry this is all happening. I really think your dog is not terrible, he just made a bad decision, and he didn't continue, and he called off ok. 

One of the stipulations is a kennel with a top (so they cannot climb out). I know it will cost a bit of money, but if you are going that route, use a concrete base, they will not be able to dig out. 

Mine are doing great with nine gage wire chain link stapled onto four by four posts set in concrete with eleven gate fencing across the top. I had to thave the gates made special to get the nine-gage wire -- all premade were like 13 gage. I told my contracter that it had to hold a bear. I am taking no chances. 

Good luck. Kennel does not have to be huge -- 10' x 6' is a minimum. My smallest are 10' x 15'.


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## Thors

If I can find a way to keep him, the kennel will be a piece of cake. My house was formerly owned by a breeder (did I already mention that?) so I have an attached kennel building with doggie doors. The outdoor fencing is gone, but the sloped cement pad with drainage trough is still in place. Fencing will cost some money but I can go up to 30' x 15' on the current pad. Will just have to cut holes for new posts and re-pour around them. Time will tell.

The police stopped by tonight. I have a hearing next week with the ASPCA rep, police chief, and my neighbors. The victim will be there as well. Most of my neighbors have been here 20+ years and seem to be rallying together about this. Once thing I do not understand...the dog will not be at the hearing. The determination will be made based on everyone's testimony. I am going to contact the behaviorist I spoke with but I'm not expecting him to want to come based on the fact that he's never seen the dog, only heard about him from me. If anyone has more advice as to what I should say, please speak up. Ate the hearing, I will discuss my plans to work with a behaviorist, get him neutered, get an eval from Tufts, use a muzzle, etc... I will do my best to elaborate on his behavior and why I may think things happened the way they did. All that while tiptoeing the lines of not making the victim feel like I think it was "just" a training issue.

One thing I didn't mention. When I brought him to the pound, I had a chance to see him around other people off property. We walked by a group of 10 or so construction workers that were repaving the pound parking lot. Not a peep. We walked by cages for of kitties. Not a peep. We walked by the dog officer and office workers. Not a peep. We even walked by 5 or 6 caged dogs. Nothing. He is completely away from home, which is the dog I have always known.

If anyone very experienced with GSD's is in the RI area, and would feel comfortable going to this hearing to discuss canine behavior please PM me. It's a long shot but I'm pulling out all stops at this point.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Can you have your vet or trainer or groomer or ANYONE that has meet your dog before give a statement?


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## Thors

I just visited my boy in the pound. It broke my heart. At first he just laid there and looked at me. After a minute or so he finally got up and came over. Once he sniffed me he got so excited. Due to the circumstances, I couldn't take him out so we kept it very short. The more I touched his nose the more excited he became.

While there I talked with the volunteers and one of the directors. He's unapproachable at this point and lunges at them when they go to open his doggie door to the outside. They recommended Alexandra Morgan ( http://www.alexandramorgan.com ) and said many people have had excellent results with her. She does offer expert witness services in dog bites so I will try to contact her and see if she could come see him before the case. I will also see if his vet would be willing to come speak about him.

Does anyone have any knowledge of Ms. Morgan's techniques or services? Any thoughts?


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## Cassidy's Mom

What a sad situation for everyone.







I took a look at your link, and just based on her website, she looks good. There's an article about finding a good trainer that doesn't use harsh abusive methods, and another on clicker training, so she's positive reinforcement based. Good luck.


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## BowWowMeow

How heartbreaking that visit must have been.







Brought me to tears because it so easily could have been Basu. I was just lucky with his bite and I got the opportunity to rehab him. 

The behavior he's exhibiting at the pound is VERY typical of gsds. I can't tell you how many gsd we had to pull from shelters when I volunteered with gsd rescue b/c they were acting like this. Once out of the cage they were absolutely fine. 

That trainer sounds good. I am sending lots of good thoughts your way and wishing you and your pup the very best.


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## scannergirl

I have nothing to add but to wish you the best of luck with everything. You deserve it, as well as all the support you've seen here.


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## Karin

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It must be so hard to see your boy this way. I hope that this trainer will be able to help you and that you get him back soon.


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## Mary Jane

Thors,

Please consider this and if it makes sense to you, act on it. My feeling concerning court proceedings is that you answer questions fully but you do not volunteer information that has not been requested. If the judge asks for your plan for handling your dog, I agree it's wise to be as clear and detailed as you can. 

Unless they ask, I am not sure I would discuss why the particular incident happened. If you do discuss it, the question can be raised as to why you did not prevent it. In any case, it is only speculation.

Indeed, I recall that you spoke to your lawyer before describing the incident here-which was certainly prudent. Do you plan to have your lawyer present at the hearing?

I don't see how anyone could act more responsibly than you are
now and I think that a fair minded judge will see the sincerity of the changes you would like to implement.

Good luck,
Mary Jane


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## middleofnowhere

One place to consider if this doesn't work out in your dog's favor is Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Knab, Utah.


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## Judykaye

You said that your neighbors are rallying together about this incident. Am I assuming that they are against you bringing Thor back to the neighborhood, or are they for all you are planning to do as a responsible dog owner.

I wish you luck and will be praying that they can see that you are really working on things for Thor and are indeed being responsible.

In Ohio they have a three bite law...hoping that your state can at least be understanding...and not one strike and you're out. Tons of positive thoughts going your and Thor's way. Judy


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## selzer

I have not heard of any three bite law, do you have a link so I can read more about this. I am from Ohio. Thanks.


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## Mandalay

thors

first I want to join the others in saying how truly sorry I am that this is happening to you. I cannot imagine being in your shoes right now.

ssecondly, I think the way you are handling it all is remarkable. For most, the first instinct would be to "protect their own" without stopping to see the situation from all sides. That you have realized there is a problem and are not only willing, but seem eager to identify and correct it, shows HUGE responsibility on your part. 

I hope everything works out in everyones favor; that you are able to find assistance in training and remolding your dog, that the jogger is able to recover with as little further disruption as possible and that your dog is able to return home and turn over a new leaf. 

I am curious why he would be acting so strangely "on the inside" since he did not pay any attention to other people or dogs when you were bringing him to the pound. Poor thing - he must be so confused, lonely and lost. I really, really hope this all gets resolved soon.


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## Riley's Mom

> Originally Posted By: ddThyroid issues can trigger aggression, so you might want to get a thyroid check done to rule that out if you plan to go the behaviourist route.
> 
> If I were you, I would wait until things calm down before you make any real decisions. This is a shock and you need time to absorb that.


I agree with dd on all points here. I was in shock when mine bit. Not making any drastic decisions for awhile (I would suggest at least a week) could save yourselves not only unecessary heartbreak but some big bucks as well.

After going the hard, long, very expensive route because I literally began jumping thru hoops afterwards in order to fix my dog and be able to keep him ... I did a number of things that cost a LOT of money that I would probably not have had to do - if I had learned about thyroid problems before this happened. That will always be step #1 for me to do and to suggest to others with like issues. 

My vote is to have all GSD's tested simply because they are on the list of breeds prone to this illness and also perhaps if breeders started routinely checking for thyroid issues and taking responsible actions when finding a dog that does have thyroid problems ... I think it has the potential to go a long ways towards removing the bad rep GSD's have gotten. But that's beside the point for this thread.

Others mentioned things which are all definitely possible. BUT you did not actually see what happened which can really work against you if the woman that was bitten get $$$ signs in their eyes or is in the least bit below board. The fact that they're not willing to talk to you, that bothers me a LOT. 

For some dogs all it takes is for this woman to have looked him in the face and that is enough to set some dogs off because they take it as a confrontation or threat and they either get afraid and go for the bite first (I'll get you before you get me) or they go into protection mode.


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## Riley's Mom

> Originally Posted By: Princess55I still believe alot of over reaction is going on , this dog isnt agressive, maybe alittle prey drive driven, <<< snipp>>> he is quite normal for its age


Princess55 and someone else mentioned the fact that they see no TRUE aggression in this incident which I also agree with. These comments come from dog owners who own protective breed dogs which a large part of the population is afraid of just because they are protective breed. These people are also much more in-tune to dog behavior.

What your dog did was *normal* behavior, like Timber1 said, if this dog was aggressive you'd not have been able to call him off easily like you did and this woman's injuries would be *much more* serious. Sounds like her most serious injury is her wrist which was broken in a fall and not bitten.

The big problem comes in when the people that will be judging this dog and/or making demands for it's future will not look at dog behavior. All they're going to see is "the dog bit." They don't care how, when, where, why etc ... the dog bit and that's all they see and what they'll base their decision on. This right here is why so many dogs get [email protected]#$* to death when it doesn't have to be this way and why so many people automatically get rid of their dogs (rehome or whatever) because they themselves don't look beyond that when something like this happens. 

I used to be one that "if a dog bit it had to go." Umpteen years ago my daughter (then 6) was bitten in the face by one of the biggest Akitas you've ever seen in your life. The Akita was my sister's and her husband's and because they had children (who this dog had grown up with from puppyhood) her husband shot the dog that night - no questions asked just done. NOW I look back and I honestly think that if that dog meant to hurt my daughter, there is no way she'd have walked away with an injury that only took like 3 stitches to repair. This dog could have totally maimed her pretty little face for life, but he didn't. It was nothing more than a nip and was brought on when a very tired dog having played hard w/the kids all day long, had climbed under an end table for some peace and quiet and a nap and my daughter interrupted this by invading this space AND although not intentional she literally cornered the dog. Perfect set-up for a bite to happen.

If I had known then what I know today, there's no way I'd have allowed them to put that dog down without a huge fight to save it's life. Point here is that the mentality about this topic has not changed for many people in all these years and seems like these are the people that make the decisions when it comes to a dog's future after a bite.


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## Riley's Mom

> Originally Posted By: RavenSophiJust to get it right, I'm not completely blaming her. There can be blamed placed on the owner of the dog too...I'm just saying, if she did the basics...there might not have been a bite.


You are *very* lucky to have been taught a better way to handle yourself under this kind of circumstance. The majority of people have not - they just react to protect themselves. I wish more people knew the safer way to handle this, but that's in an ideal world which I doubt I'll see in my lifetime. There are more people out there that teach their children to never go near a GSD or a Pit or you name it than there are people teaching their children how to handle themselves in a situation like this ... and fear spreads and multiplies.


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## Riley's Mom

> Originally Posted By: trudy They said they wanted to meet the GS that mauled the child and left NO marks. Seems the child had crawled under a spot in the fence to play with the dog and was rolling around being licked when the mom saw what appeared to be the dog mauling him.


Oh I love this story! Thank you for sharing it. What a great way to show how excited people can escalate a situation.


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## Riley's Mom

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerA friend of mine has the fence like Selzer posted and she asked if we could help her put the wire fence on the inside of her privacy fence because the dogs keep knocking the boards loose and getting out. I wouldn't tust my dogs with a privacy fence if I had a problem dog.Val


We had a privacy fence previously, unless you go with a strength much much more than what we used, I would not trust it either. Some CALM big dogs are fine with it, but like Wisc Tiger said that with a dog who's got issues, the fence may not last long. We had a new chainlink fence put in that I feel oooooooh so much safer with! it's also made for calmer dogs - they can see out and around them - it's more like open space for them especially considering we have a very small yard. We had one digger, our yard was becoming increasingly pot-holed with her digging. New fence went in last year ... since about that time she's been laying ON the yard instead of digging it up. I do think the fence has something to do with this - she seems to really like laying there and watching the world go by







I think having a fence a dog can see through also helps with socialization - helps to keep them from being hidden away from the world and confined. Dogs need to see and smell and a privacy fence takes that away from them.


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## Riley's Mom

How cool, a dog responsible jogger! I commend you for not only working to protect yourself, but the dogs you encounter as well. You have just put a smile on my face, thank you!

The guy with the attitude of "I moved to the country so I wouldn't have to tie up my dog" ... him I can do without. That attitude sucks. Why do people think it's ok to ditch their responsibility to their own dog and people around them just because they move?


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## Riley's Mom

> Originally Posted By: Tony123I let her run out to the driveway while telling the man she was friendly. When she got to him, she paused for just a second before licking him.


You're very lucky the person in your drive wasn't carrying mace or worse. Not only could your dog have been injured or worse, it could also be traumatic to her to approach someone in her friendly manner and get punished for it.


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## Riley's Mom

> Originally Posted By: ThorsI just visited my boy in the pound. It broke my heart. While there I talked with the volunteers and one of the directors. He's unapproachable at this point and lunges at them when they go to open his doggie door to the outside.


Oh this just sucks big time. They made you put him in a place that OF COURSE he's going to be reactive to people he doesn't know! He's scared and in a strange place! Ugh! Just what they need to help their side of the case. Man this really ticks me off!


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## Riley's Mom

> Originally Posted By: ThorsOh, and on a even sadder note, the woman who was bit has been in for surgery once for her wrist and may have to go back. Just a terrible situation...


The surgery is not from the bite ... she could have fallen anywhere.


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## Riley's Mom

MaryJane is right-on. Confidently but not arrogantly answer Q's but do not volunteer information nobody's asked for. You can to easily dig yourself a hole without realizing it. Lawyers are very skilled at getting a person to talk and leading them right down the path they want them to go, nevermind it's the absolute wrong direction. State facts, don't make any verbal assumptions. I think I'd try to talk in a way that places blame NOWHERE, not on the dog or the jogger. Facts don't place blame, they are just statements.

Definitely make sure they know your plans for the dog - but - if they asked me such as "what are your plans" I would ask what would be required before answering. That way I don't wind up volunteering more stringent rules than they would. Just make sure you have a good solid answer for each restriction.


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## Judykaye

About the three bite law in Ohio. I fortunately have not had personal experience with it, but my neighbor owned a very mean cocker spaniel that had two bite reports and they were worried about what would happen if he bit again. He never did, but the two bites were reported to animal control and she had to house quarantee him each time. We live in Lake County. I don't know if things have changed since then as laws are becoming stiffer and stiffer. Please do not consider me any kind of an expert...I am just going by what my neighbor experienced. That was a couple of years ago...the cocker has since passed to the Rainbow Bridge. Our GSD, Kayla and the cocker had a hate relationship going and one day the cocker attacked Kayla. He would not stop and was like a tazmanian devil...totally out of control. He kept trying to bite her over and over again and finally she just reached down and bit his head once. He was OK but he finally stopped. Kayla was on leash and Copper wasn't...very scarey. I thought Copper was going to be seriously hurt...Judy


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## domypart

In my opinion your dog was just doing his job, protecting his family. This was not a vicious attack, no stitches. He needs to learn a little more regarding how he should do his job.

check out my post maybe somehow it will help you.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...708#Post1069997


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## domypart

In my opinion your dog was just doing his job, protecting his family. This was not a vicious attack, no stitches. He needs to learn a little more regarding how he should do his job.

Check out my post maybe somehow it will help you.

David Browne

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...708#Post1069997


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## big_dog7777

> Originally Posted By: MandalayI am curious why he would be acting so strangely "on the inside" since he did not pay any attention to other people or dogs when you were bringing him to the pound. Poor thing - he must be so confused, lonely and lost. I really, really hope this all gets resolved soon.


Dogs react to the picture shown to them, and the surroundings. A dog that is rock solid on lead with his handler can be reactive and dangerous when behind a barrier such as a fence or in a kennel or in a crate. To us, it's easy to say "same dog, same strangers or other dogs so the reaction should be the same"... but it's not. Especially if these things were not specifically worked on. My male is not dog aggressive at all on leash, or in the open for that matter. But if someone walks by my fence with a dog, he loses his brains. He also acts differently to people at my back fence (where only my neighbors are, who I always talk to when I see them) as opposed to my side fence where strangers walk by.


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## big_dog7777

Thors,

Best of luck to you during your hearing. Your focus seems to be exactly where it should be. Accept the seriousness of the situation, and detail your plans to ensure it will never happen again. There is literally nothing more you can do. You deserve a lot of credit for fighting for your boy. Many would have just put him down and washed their hands of it. I really hope this works out.


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## APBTLove

I'm so very sorry, I wish they had not taken him to the pound, shows how much they know of a GSD. Every GS I have met who has been in a kennel for more than a few days becomes kennel aggressive... They aren't a breed to be locked in a small area surrounded by strangers and scared dogs.

You need to get your vet to come with you, if he or she has experience firsthand with your dog.
Find a training facility that you are going to get him into and get in touch with obedience trainers, show proof in court that you are doing this so they will take you seriously. Get fence installed, get a blueprint or plan showing how the fence will be, it's height and strength and also show that to the judge to prove you will be doing everything possible to keep him and the public safe. Explain your situation in detail to a behaviorist and see if they could get in touch with the judge, by letter or printed email. Maybe even showing up if they car enough. Are your friends/neighbors going to try to come? Their testimony could make all the difference. If they judge knows anything about dogs, he or she will know that what your dog did is what many a dog would do, he felt there was a threat to his family/territory and went to investigate, then had a moving, screaming target. It would be hard for any dog not to give a good nip to something showing such signs of fear that he could see and hear. Probably smell as well. 

Good luck


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## jake

In some states you can board a dog at an approved facility other than 'dog pound' when they are quarintined you might want to look at this alternative if he is showing aggression where he is.


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## meisha98

Good luck with the hearing, have my thoughts and prayers are headed your way! It sounds like as long as you show up prepared and have answers for all the concerns of the different parties, you should be okay. Your poor boy being locked up! Whatever happens, keep calm okay? Don't forget to bring proof of whatever training he has already completed, it will help. Wishing you the best!


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## Thors

Well...I have very little to say at this point. My life has been turned upside down. My wife and I sat in the hearing today as my neighbors explained how long they had lived at their houses. They went on to explain how they could no longer live normal lives because of my vicious dangerous dog. My attempts to explain dog behavior and the steps we were willing to take to help this dog fell on deaf ears. A panel of "animal lovers" consisting of 2 animal control officers and the director of the RI SPCA voted unanimously to euthanize my dog. I've spoken with an expert witness for dog bite cases and know the appeal process. The bottom line is my dog, if not killed, would never be able to have a decent quality of life again. If I appeal, the most I am likely to get is a six sided enclosure, removal of his canines, and the dictate that he never leave the property again unless I inform the police that he is going to the vet.

I'm in a very dark place right now. If anything good can come of this, please read and understand what happened here. Please, please don't let this happen to you.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I am so, so sorry. 

There is a post in the general (non-dog) section of rescue-a family looking for a dog with issues. I do not know them and would suggest a visit there as well as all other checks. I do not know if this is an option, I don't even know if it's a good thing to even tell you about that post. 

Again I am sorry.


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## Alto

I am so sorry to hear this









I second asking permission to re-home out of county/state; he is NOT a vicious dog & I can't believe that these people would condemn him to a choice between death & mutilation


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## Mary Jane

Thors,

I am so terribly sorry.

I can see myself in your shoes so plainly and the thought of losing Wolf is too painful to bear.

I'm so terribly sorry.

Mary Jane


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## middleofnowhere

Contact Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Knab Utah NOW.


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## Karin

I'm so sorry, Thors. I can only imagine the anguish you're going through right now. I can't believe that they won't even give you and Wolf a chance. I don't know what else to say except that I'm really, really sorry.


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## BowWowMeow

I am so sorry. My heart goes out to you. This was always a possibility when I lived with Basu and it makes me absolutely sick to know that it is a reality for you and your family. 

Please ask if you may rehome him out of state.


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## selzer

I am just sick for you. I wish I knew an experienced dog-friendly attourney. I am furious with your neighbors. Ok, I am really disgusted by your neighbors. Ok, that may not be altogether helpful. Poor dog. I feel for you too. 

So maybe you could have trained the dog better. Maybe you could have been out there with him. Maybe you could have socialized him better, etc, etc. But the fact is, your dog reacted to a person running along his territory. 

I am NOT suggesting the jogger was at fault. I am suggesting that a dog committed a major misdemeaner or a minor felony. If this plays out this way ALL of these neighbors should experience a REAL aggressive dog attack. 

I hope that one of the contacts above can do something for your boy. He's a victim of a breed crime (what they are doing to him). No one would suggest a Yorkie or a Westie or a Scottie that bit someone jogging along be euthanized or lose its canines. Gargoyles!


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## Barb E

Oh my, I am so sorry to hear how this turned out.


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## TG

I was not expecting this outcome. Somehow, I was thinking your neighbors would be supportive -- I am so sorry that was not the case. Please let us know what happens.


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## big_dog7777

I am so sorry. I don't have the words. This is exactly why I am almost consistently paranoid to the point of assuming that if anything ever happens involving my dogs I and in turn they will get screwed. This needs to be a wakeup call for all of us, and should affect how we handle, train, socialize and secure our dogs. 

Best Friends in Utah has a ton of experience not only rescuing, but something tells me they have the legal contacts to make it happen as well. Their Dogtown program is the best thing about dogs and training and ACTUAL rehabilitation on TV hands down. I hope they are willing to save him.


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## scannergirl

I'm sorry about how this turned out. I can imagine this scenario happening to anyone.
Wish I had something to offer you besides sympathy.


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## RebelGSD

I am terribly sorry. Something similar happened to my friend: she was forced to euthanize a wonderful dog because of a single bite provoked by an aggressive dog the neighbor brought over. Laws in this country are not fair. One mistake, and life will never be the same.

I am totallly paranoid about my dogs and I am ALWAYS outside with them, whenever they are in the yard (which is fenced).

By the way, I contacted Best Friends in Utah on behalf of my friend: they are in no better position to deal with dogs with bite history than any rescue.
If they take in a dog that bit and it happens again, they can close their doors. They gave us advice about legal matters and training (stuff already posted here) but their hands were tied. Thre are no miracles in a situation like this, I am afraid.


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## Timber1

I do not know your neighbors so can say little about their comments. I guess my thought is if you were allowed to take the dog back, and hook the dog up with a professional trainer out state, that would evaluate and place the dog that would be great.

At times I tend to leave the playing field, but if was my dog and there was any way to get the animal out of the kennel (needs to see his vet) I would leave the state with the dog and place Thor in a different home or with a trainer. You might get fined, but that is about it.

Thor's bite was not vicious, if it was, the dog would not have stopped. 

As for removing the canine teeth, that is simply stupid, as good trainers will tell you.

My only concern regarding Thor, is why your neighbors are so adament about the dog not being returned to your home.

If you are serious about saving Thor, send me a personal E Mail. I know a trainer that would be happy to take the dog, but it would be a long trip for you, and there are costs involved.


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## selzer

Thors, 

You have the majority of a board of GSD people behind you about this dog. 

It is almost like it is not only your dog, but all of our dogs on trial. Letting them euthanize or brutalize your dog is a big blow to dog owners everywhere. Maybe that is just my feeling on this. 

However, I understand too that resources like money and time and emotions also have a limit. As bad as it may seem, if you choose not to persue an appeal of this ruling, I understand that too. 

I think a good attourney experienced in these cases could really help you out. They can get expert witnesses like animal behaviorists, etc. that can maybe sway the balances in the dog's favor. Finding and engaging this person may be a question.


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## Timber1

Money and time is the key, unless the guy can get the dog and take the animal out of the state. 

Speaking from experience, albeit the situation was not as bad.


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## meisha98

I am so sorry for the ignorance and stupidity of the people in your area about this situation. I hope you can work something out so he can live. This is an outcome that could be any one of us and please know how badly we are feeling for you.


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## Riley's Mom

Oh nooooooo! ****! That is the big problem, people only see what they *think* they saw. There is not "but it's because" there is no listening trying to explain animal behavior when it comes to these kinds of happening. 

Were your neighbors ALWAYS like this? Have their been other problems w/the dog that they can give dates & facts WHY they no longer can live near this vicious dog? What are they basing their current feelings on anyway?

Have you had his thyroid checked? Have you checked out Dr. Jean Dodd's articles and whatnot on hypothyroidism if he has thyroid function problems? I do believe Dr. Dodd will testify in situations like this (by phone if you're not close) or at the very least I believe you could ask her to write an email to the appropriate people regarding thyroid issues if the dog has thyroid problems. 

I third rehoming out of the area if you cannot move yourselves with your dog. At least get him out of town now to a safe place (NOT in an itty bitty kennel either) until you have time to think on this and make some decisions without the dog right there with you. 

I believe someone already mentioned Best Friends in Utah ... contact them, they may very well be able and willing to help.


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## Mandalay

Oh my. I just came back here to check and see how everything turned out. I am nearly in tears over a dog I have never met that belongs to a person that I have never met.

I am so sorry. I truly hope that you are able to find a way that he can continue to live without being maimed (which is what I consider the removal of the canines being). 

As for the neighbors...I dont even know where to begin. I would like to think that if my neighbors had concerns or issues with my dog or children, that they would bring those concerns to me long before it came to this. I am assuming that this is the first time you are hearing that your neighbors are "Afraid" of your dog.

Please keeo us updated on the situation as it progresses and I truly do hope that you are able to come to some sort of solution that works out in all of your best interests.


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## RebelGSD

Unfortunately it is not as easy as just bringing the dog out of state.
If they "kidnap" the dog, they can end up in jail (according to the lawyer my friends hired), they were considering this option. My friends had a place for their dog to go, even out of the country, they had Congo's lawyer, and still could do nothing. Laws are unfortunately not supportive of dogs and dog owners.


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## angelaw

I've known of 2 dogs moved out of their respective states. First dog didn't attack again. The 2nd dog, attacked twice. Their bite history didn't come with them, but I feel sorry for the woman who had over a years worth of surgery on her leg after it was mangled during a BH!

So not really sure how to help on this one as it can go either way.


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## Ocean

> Originally Posted By: ThorsI've spoken with an expert witness for dog bite cases and know the appeal process. The bottom line is my dog, if not killed, would never be able to have a decent quality of life again. If I appeal, the most I am likely to get is a six sided enclosure, removal of his canines, and the dictate that he never leave the property again unless I inform the police that he is going to the vet.


Thors, you have my heartfelt sympathy. I wish you the best of luck with the appeals process. If you win the appeal, you will still be able to give the dog a good quality of life. Removal of the canines is not a big deal. I think it is idiotic bec. a "canine less" dog can still bite but if that is what the court wants then do it. A K9 dentist can do it for you. There are lots of GSDs with canines that have worn down or were broken off, no problem.
Never leaving the property is not a big deal either. A GSD can get plenty of exercise inside a small yard with a dedicated ball thrower. What the GSD wants most in this world is to be with their owner. They don't have a need to "see the world" like humans do.
I'm not sure what you're saying with the enclosure again I assume this means some specification on kennels. Again, if I were you, I would just do it.
I really hope you go through with the appeals process and do what you can to save your dog's life because this is truly unfair and he does not deserve being put to death, nor do you and your family deserve to lose him.


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## Ocean

> Originally Posted By: Mandalay I truly hope that you are able to find a way that he can continue to live without being maimed (which is what I consider the removal of the canines being).


Removal of the canines has nothing to do with being maimed. It's the equivalent of the dentist removing your canines (we humans have them too). Lots of dogs living happy lives missing several teeth including all their canines.


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## Riley's Mom

I'd have to disagree with Ocean's comments on never leaving the property. Dogs that don't have enough to do can wind up with bad behavior problems. Granted ball playing and such and being with the owner is very important to them. But I've noticed with my own that if I don't get them out for a walk or a car ride somewhere at least every other day or so minimum, they wind up getting antsy and whiny. They get cabin fever just like you or I and like you or I staring at the same scenery day after day, they get bored. Boredom, antsy behavior and being denied the basic rights of life can make for some dangerous behavior.

A GSD and many other dogs big or small, do not have the temperament to be caged 24x7 or even close. Keeping the dog away from people and other dogs, will mean any socialization skills the dog currently has will be lost. It's a "use it or lose it" type thing. Caging this animal for the rest of his life other than visits to the vet is NOT a life. Look what happens to those poor creatures in puppy mills living in a cage their entire life? Granted, this would not be as severe, but it's the same principal. It messes not only with their physical but their mental health as well.

Removing the canine's to these people apparently means removing the teeth they think do the most damage is all I can think of. At least they were not requiring he be rendered totally toothless. If that were the ONLY requirement, although I don't agree it's right, would be something I could live with. I wouldn't think it would even interfere with his eating.

Thors, if you decide to follow their demands I'd like to make a suggestion or two. Make this the biggest damned enclosure your property will allow. Add fun safe things to it for his entertainment and if at all possible in any way, shape or form, get another dog to keep him company.

When a city lays down requirements like this, they are supposedly looking out for the safety of the citizens which is right and good. However, the Police Dept doesn't really want to deal babysitting duty ... "Fluffy has to go to the vet today." I do that for a living and would not consider babysitting your dog's activities a part of my job description. Point here being, they would probably be ecstatic if the dog were removed from the area because then it's out of their hands and no longer their responsibility. My guess is that if you found a new home for him where he could have a good quality of life, they would not balk at you turning him over to someone outside their jurisdiction or the state itself. You would no longer have him, but at least he would not die for being a dog nor would he wind up living a non-life cooped up in a cage forever.

Please keep us posted. Like others have said, this kind of thing could happen to any one of us and our dogs, which is very scary. We do feel your pain and we are here for you to talk to.


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## Riley's Mom

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDIf they "kidnap" the dog, they can end up in jail (according to the lawyer my friends hired), they were considering this option.


If Thors finds a place to re-home the dog, the authorities need not ever know where that is. Thors can simply tell them that the dog has been removed from their jurisdiction and will "no longer be a problem" for them. More than likely that will make them happy enough to drop the topic. They aren't going to spend much if any money tracking down where the dog may have gone to. Most cities are VERY tight with their money - I mean VERY VERY tight with their money. They're not going to throw it away on tracking down a "disappearing dog" that they wanted dead in the first place. If they want to get greedy, they may issue a citation which I'd gladly pay if it kept my dog alive. Most times the fines don't amount to much. I don't know how things are where Thors lives, but here, there's no way the local agencies would waste their time and energy putting someone in jail for removing a dog in this fashion. They would view it as "now it's someone else's problem" and all that matters is that THEY can't be sued because of the dog.


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## RebelGSD

It was not the case with my friends dog. I called the Animal Control Officer and offered to take the dog, they (the ACO and the judge refused). The ACO was determined to see the dog dead.


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## WiscTiger

I am not sure what I would do. I am with Ocean's on parts of this, the restricts would certainly be better than having my dog PTS. I could do enough things with my dog on my property to fill he time, my dogs rarely go off property any more an are quite happy and all have pretty good dog manners.

Finding a place with a dog with a bite history isn't that easy, the dog may do fine or it may not.

Have you aksed about muzzling your dog. Many area's will put that on as a stipulation for dogs with a bite history. I think the kennel restrictions stem from the fact that the dog broke the tie out it was on. So they had to take that into account.

Bottom line for me, is the dog would be my responsibility I either take the steps mandated or PTS my dog. These are just my personal feelings.

Val


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## jake

I am not aware of any law for keeping a "dangerous dog"that includes removing canine teeth.This practice is specifically outlawed by the American Veterinary Association guidelines.Perhaps this would be a means of appeal.There is a website animallaw.info that allows search on all animal law by state and type of incident.It does state that RI does NOT allow rehoming out of state


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## GSDinOly

I am soooo sorry of this outcome..but I am not one to give up easily, and nor should you. I'm going to second the suggestion made by middleofnowhere....call the sanctuary in Utah. Here is the website http://www.bestfriends.org

Go to the about us section.

"Help with Animal Situations. Best Friends staff members provide free information and assistance to people who need help with an animal situation - for example, pets needing new homes, feral cats, behavior problems. The Animal Help staff currently respond to over 20,000 requests for help each year"

FREE advice from people who've been there, done that, and apparently know what to do...I don't want to come across to you the wrong way, like I'm being bossy or something....but please do contact them, it sounds promising. Maybe they can offer advice on what to do to get the court to spare a life.....who knows....I just wish I could help more. I'm really sad for you.


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## Ocean

This is a situation where frankly I personally would not hesitate to break the law when it comes to rehoming the dog out of state if the dog's death sentence is amended to a home confinement sentence.
The worst that could happen would probably be a "slap in the wrist" fine. And law enforcement and the justice system have far more important things on their hands than keeping track of one dog.


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## Karin

We haven't heard from Thors for a long time. I sure hope that things were resolved in a way that your boy could stay with you. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.


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## Timber1

Karin's subsequent comment makes me wonder about the dog's fate. I think I/We could have getten the dog placed, and rehabbed if necessary.


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## Thors

I held his head as he stopped breathing today. All avenues were looked into...

If I feel up to it I'll post the details. No promises. For what it's worth, I'm not too pleased with the human race right now. We suck...


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## WiscTiger

I am so sorry that it had to come to that. Take some time, the details can wait for a few days.

Val


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## meisha98

Please accept our sympathies. We cry with you knowing what a difficult and unfair decision it was. He can run free now and rest from all the stress he was unfairly put through. Know you did what you could and that he knows that too. You'll see him again. We are so sorry.


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## Alto

I am so sorry for all of you









But try to find peace with it all; if you can, build a fence & find another pup to love


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## Sherush

I am so sorry for you and your entire family and the victim of the bite, my heart broke reading so many of these pages.... RIP Thors

This is why I socialize Jesse every single day in many many different situations and with people of all nations and ages, joggers, bikers, skateboarders, crowds, farm animals, wild animals, and will do this every single day till he is 3 years old and then keep it up but not every day. Also why we neutered him at 6 months, and never never never tie him out (unless we are sitting with him) a tied up dog can turn very fast, like the good old junk yard/garage dog that is tied up.


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## Barb E

I am so very sorry


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## LHunter82FXRS

I am so sorry.














Thors


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## aubie

Just an overall horrible situation every way around...I'm so sorry...


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## Minnieski

This broke my heart. I'm so sorry.


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## Kayos and Havoc

I am so sorry.......


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## Karin

Oh no! I'm so very sorry to hear this. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family during this awful time. Rest in peace, dear boy.


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## selzer

Sending healing thoughts your way. I am glad you were with him in the end. I could not have stolen the dog from quarantine or moved out of state. These are impossibilities for most of us. Even if we fantasize about them. 

I am so sorry about this whole thing. No dog should be ripped away from owners for one bite. THAT is inhumane. 

It is hostile toward our critters.


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## BowWowMeow

I am sorry for your loss. It was obvious how much you loved your dog and I'm sure he knew that too. This whole situation was just heartbreaking.


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## Daisy1986

OMG! I had not seen any of this at all.....that has been going on for around a month. 

This is the most horrible story I have ever read on here.









I am so sorry for you, your family and your dog.









This makes me want to not try to walk all 4 of my dogs at once.

This could be anyone. Terrible just terrible. Do they really pull dogs teeth? This is an outrage. I am so sorry.


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## Kayla's Dad

I am so sorry for your loss and the ordeal you've gone through.


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## agilegsds

I am so deeply sorry for your loss. With all of the anti-dog laws that have been enacted over recent years, I feel like this is "there but the grace of God go I" ..... So very unfair and devastating.......

Everyone, take a look at your local dog ordinances and keep abreast about what is being proposed. Be proactive and make yourself heard, because this could happen to any one of us.


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## SuzyE

God help you. It is a miracle that Paige never bit anyone so I understand. I am so sorry. this happened to a client of mine with a rottie and it has been yrs and the poor lady will never recover from it. You have my deepest deepest sympathy, frankly I would be suicidal-God help you.don't blame yourself ever.


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## scannergirl

I'm very sorry. This situation should not have ended this way.


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## sju279

This is the first time I've read this thread, and it has broken my heart! Thors, I am so sorry for you! It really should be a lesson to all of us, that we can never be too careful. I just can't BELIEVE that they would not give you one more chance! Yes, the jogger has had to have surgery on her wrist which is unfortunate, but that injury wasn't even caused by the dog directly. I just don't understand that. And shame on your neighbors for ganging up on you like that. 

This has really opened my eyes. I worry about Shelby pulling something like this, and it's very scary. She hasn't been allowed alone in the yard for months now, and probably never will be. We always have to be on guard.

Still, you should have been given one more chance Thors. This shouldn't have happened to you. It's a sad situation all around. When something like this happens, there never really is a winner.


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## Timber1

If the OP can remove the dog from the State, or perhaps even the county I do not think it would be that difficult to find a rescue for the animal. 

Without elaborating a great deal we are trying to find a foster before Monday that wil take a dog scheduled to be killed on 5/31.

The dog, a two year old German Shepherd Male took off after a middle aged woman on a bike and bit her on the leg. On May 15 the Village Board decided to have the dog put down this coming Monday. Our rescue group, along with a few humane societes have agreed to take the dog. My hunch, and almost certain now is he will end up with the recue group, and do just fine.

The hard part in responding is I am finding all cities, villages, states, etc. have different ordinances. However, if the dog was removed from the area, I doubt there would be little or no follow up.


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## angelaw

timber, the dog was PTS.


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## RebelGSD

Thors, I am terribly sorry. 

I know how you feel. I was involved in trying to find a solution for my friend's dog (I loved the dog and occasionally cared for him). We left no stone unturned, they hired Congo's attorney, we contacted Best Friends in Utah, the dog had several places to go to, out of state. Nothing worked. The Animal Control Officer was set to have the dog killed, the judge listened to him, and that is what ended up happening. It was one bite, the poor dog thought he protected my friend. In one week we all went through **** and our lives changed forever.

My friend and her husband would have ended up in jail if they moved/stole the dog and violated the ACOs and police orders (according to their own attorney, the ACO and others). With charges on their record, they would have had problems keeping their jobs (with the type of job they have). Best Friends - they are not magicians and they deal with the same liability as everyone else. Some advice was well-meant but not realistic.

Unfortunately laws are against dogs and pet owners, one mistake and the dog gets killed (it may be better in some counies than others, but dog owners need to be very careful). Accidents like this are a loss and defeat for every dog owner - it can happen to any of us some day.


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## arycrest

I'm so sorry!!!


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## Mary Jane

Thors,

It has been hard for me to post because I can see myself in your situation so easily and it terrifies me. We had a scare with Wolf and the laws in New York are not as draconian as Rhode Island-but it's all just talk.

You lost your boy and that is a tragedy.

Mary Jane


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## Sashmom

Im so sorry I cant imagine going through this nightmare. 
I always go out with my first dog and now Neek, and I have a fenced yard! bt you just cant be too careful. 







Thors, your owner loved you and is going to miss you big boy


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## GSDinOly

OMG, I'm sooo sorry. I hope with time you're heart will heal. You're right, we do suck, I love my dog and two cats more than I even like most people. I hope you feel better soon....what a terrible nightmare to go through.


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## mel hunter

Just wanted to add my condolences...and like an earlier post said..."it can happen to any of us some day". I am so very sorry for your tremendous loss. I dealt with a similar situation many years ago and I understand the pain it causes. 

All the best to you and your family.

Melinda


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## gsdsrule

> Originally Posted By: RavenSophiYes, I've been charged by an 'aggressive' dog, once when i was 14 and another time when I was older. Even when I was 14 I knew I was supposed to stand still. The dog charged...barking, showing teeth...and even at 14 I knew to stand still. Yes, I wanted to run, but I KNEW not to. I don't think dogs can be charged for the stupidity of humans. They always get put down or re-homed because a human did something wrong. That is unfair. I think the woman needs to accept responsibility for the broken wrist at most! I mean why on earth would you run backwards?


Way to blame the victim. Even a dog person might have panicked. Maybe this woman has no experience with dogs.
The op is completely responsible for her medical bills, torn clothing, etc. I think he needs to neuter his dog and put up a fence. And train, train, train at public classes.


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## gsdsrule

Dang, now I am going back to finish reading the posts and it seems the dog is gone. I'm sorry this happened to you.


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## Riley's Mom

Thors ... I'm so sorry. I feel confident in saying that everyone here knows your pain all to well and that this outcome was so unfair and totally unjustified. I hope you are healing.


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## k9sarneko

I just wanted to add my sympathies to Thors and family. I am so very sorry it had to come to this. Please take care of yourself, do not beat yourself up but learn for the next time.


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## SusiQ

Totally unjustified to murder a pet over this incident - you should have had the opportunity to prove that he could be rehomed or securely confined. This is so wrong! My condolences on your loss.


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## doggonefool

Better late than never; I am sooo sorry. For so many of us, this could be our dog. How hurtful that the neighbors were so unsupporting. How grossly draconian that the dog was sentenced to death on a first offense. How greatly I sympathize with your family and the pain and suffering this decision is costing you.


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## Mandalay

I dont believe I have seen anything from Thors since his last post in May. I hope he is doing as well as can be expected. Please dont lose faith in all of the human race, we are not all that cruel and ugly. Unfortunately, those that are seem to overshadow those that arent.

I am so very sorry.


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## sleepybree03

I agree that many people overact. Any time any kind of "dominant" breed is involved, such as a GSD, Rott, Doberman, etc..ppl who do not have those dogs will freak out more b/c of bad misconceptions. That lady, i am sure, would have not reacted that way if a lab or golden retriver would have ran at her. i am sad for her but her breaking her wrist was overreaction. When an aggressive dog literally "attacks" they won't stop easily and many do not even bark. My male dog ( who is neutered and did obedience) has run up to people barking like a crazy but hasn't bitten ( thank god). I try to be very careful with him with people and generally keep him away from strangers. Obedience is good but it is not a cure all b/c he has ran barking and then will still do his sit, come, etc and will even lay down waiting for me to go get him knowing he is in trouble. Socializing is good but when you have a huge dog with a muzzle, people do not get close lol so the socializing is still hard. It is common knowlede that when a dog runs at you, running or moving will only make the dog freak out thinking that maybe you will hurt him ( or the family he loves).


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## sleepybree03

I can't believe they euthanized this poor dog over that. Really made me cry. I really think this happened b/c of the breed. Golden retrievers supposenly bite more people in this country than any other breed and I've never heard a case on the news. A pit bull charges at someone however, and its on cnn. I am paranoid now since thor said his neighbors were at the hearing and I didn't know that how these hearings went. My friendly female gsd once ran up to a neighbor ( wagging her tail!) and literally 2 hours later I had a note posted on my door from animal control stating that both my dogs allegedly " vicously jumped" at them since i guess my male ( who was on his leashed, had barked). The female did not bark. We take her to the human park and strange kids play with her and pet her and she tolerates things (anything for a ball!). Ofcourse, animal control never returned me call since i think they just did that just to shut up the neighbor since the dogs didn't bite or anything. Any one know the laws on that in tx?


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## pupresq

> Quote: Golden retrievers supposenly bite more people in this country than any other breed and I've never heard a case on the news. A pit bull charges at someone however, and its on cnn.


I've heard a similar stat but I'm pretty sure it's Labradors not Goldens. I'm not actually sure that it's true though and if it is, has more to do with the number of dogs of that breed than anything - there are so many out there, statistically they're going to account for a greater percentage of bites. 

But I agree with you about the larger point - if the dog involved in an incident is a supposedly "vicious" breed it gets a very different media response than another dog would. I think someone did an experiment once where they called a bunch of media outlets with two different stories one of a "border collie" attacking someone and one of a "Pit Bull" (or it might have been a Rottie, I can't remember). All other "facts" about the supposed incident were kept identical. Anyway, the first story got no interest whatsoever and the second got tons.


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## sleepybree03

I know it sucks for people who happen to like these kinds of dogs. Maybe it was labs I don't know but they said gsd are number 2 on the list. I have still to meet an aggressive pit bull lol but when one enters a dog park ppl tense up and if one plays with a dog ( a little rough you know how dog roll around with eachother) the non pitbull dog is called back to the owner in a frantic rush lol It just makes me sad that one bite and the dog was killed. The owner should have been given a chance to be responsible. It not like he let the dog go on purpose to run at the lady! The leash snapped it can happen to anyone.


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## GSDTrain

> Originally Posted By: ThorsI held his head as he stopped breathing today. All avenues were looked into...
> 
> If I feel up to it I'll post the details. No promises. For what it's worth, I'm not too pleased with the human race right now. We suck...


I am so sorry to hear that it had to come down to this.

Hugs


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