# Family Pet Killed and Officer Fired MOVED TO CURRENT DOG AFFAIRS FROM GEN INFO



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm reading the story and I get to the part where the officer told the family "It had to be done" and walked away and I find I'm quite angry. I would have loved to be the one that fired his sorry butt and then I would have told him. "It had to be done" and walked away....

I also read in another article that the new laws that were recently passed by the Governor of Illinois in regards to excessive force with animals played a role in the officers dismissal. 


Hometown police officer fired after fatally shooting dog | abc7chicago.com


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I do not understand, more and more LEO's are shooting pets, pets in homes and in backyards..it makes no sense.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I do not understand, more and more LEO's are shooting pets, pets in homes and in backyards..it makes no sense.


Once they start getting fired and know its a consequence, maybe it will finally end.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The kid would still have her dog if people would be more careful. Teach the dog to go through a door where there is a fence only, or to stay on the porch until it is leashed, or to stay in the yard. 

The dog was off the owner's property, the police were called because of the dog, and now the dog is dead and a cop is fired. It sounds like the 15 year veteran was probably totally in the wrong for shooting the dog, and then saying it had to be done, but ultimately, dog owners that want to keep their animals alive NEED to protect them by keeping them under control and contained. 

If you do not want your child to experience the trauma of watching their dog get killed, then keep it contained. It is no less traumatic to watch your dog get run over by a car. Or to see another dog charge up and kill it. Or to see your dog charge up and kill someone else's small dog.

If you want a GSD/PIT BULL MIX, than do your part and keep it under control! 

Then maybe the dog would still be alive today. 

I am not concerned with the fate of the officer. I think he probably lost his job due to his actions, and that is on him. But the dog's fate is on its owners who failed it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

When my son was about two the dog across the street, which happened to be a GSD decided to hold the mailman hostage. I have never seen a mailman climb so fast. Someone called the police and the first response was the officer drawing his gun and telling people to stand back as he pointed the gun at the dog. My son started screaming and I had a small, very small window of opportunity to change that officers mind. At the end I believe he didn't shoot because of my son. We managed to get the dog in the yard with no injury to anyone.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> The kid would still have her dog if people would be more careful. Teach the dog to go through a door where there is a fence only, or to stay on the porch until it is leashed, or to stay in the yard.
> 
> The dog was off the owner's property, the police were called because of the dog, and now the dog is dead and a cop is fired. It sounds like the 15 year veteran was probably totally in the wrong for shooting the dog, and then saying it had to be done, but ultimately, dog owners that want to keep their animals alive NEED to protect them by keeping them under control and contained.
> 
> ...


Things like this are called accidents for a reason. People have kids running in and out and a dog gets out, etc. In this case they called the police to assist them in finding their dog. The dog was back on their property when officer shot the dog. I guess they won't ever be calling the police for assistance again.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

the owners called 911 to report their own dog running loose
makes me wonder if their dog is so aggressive that they have to report it getting loose and roaming the neighborhood as an emergency???


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## Charliehound (Jun 5, 2014)

How sad. But I'm sure there's missing parts to the story. It says the owner tried coaxing the dog back into the house... what does that mean? Wouldn't you just walk over to it if it wasn't responding to your verbal command? It's too bad this had to happen... I have no idea what the protocol is for shooting a dog, but apparently the officer wasn't following it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

my boy diesel said:


> the owners called 911 to report their own dog running loose
> makes me wonder if their dog is so aggressive that they have to report it getting loose and roaming the neighborhood as an emergency???


They might have been trying to get in touch with animal control. Out here in lots of towns you have to call the police to get to animal control. They have family that works for Animal Control in Chicago.


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## Charliehound (Jun 5, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> the owners called 911 to report their own dog running loose
> makes me wonder if their dog is so aggressive that they have to report it getting loose and roaming the neighborhood as an emergency???


Yeah, I've never heard of anyone calling 911 for their own dog out loose...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Charliehound said:


> How sad. But I'm sure there's missing parts to the story. It says the owner tried coaxing the dog back into the house... what does that mean? Wouldn't you just walk over to it if it wasn't responding to your verbal command? It's too bad this had to happen... I have no idea what the protocol is for shooting a dog, but apparently the officer wasn't following it.


I'm sure we will never know the complete story, but it must have been investigated for the officer of 15 yrs to be fired. They aren't going to fire an officer unless it clearly shows he was at fault.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

so call the cops
dont call 911 for your own dog being loose
unless that dog is so entirely dangerous you cannot recapture it!
or its roaming the neighborhood biting people and other pets!

calling the police is not the same as calling 911 btw


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

my boy diesel said:


> so call the cops
> dont call 911 for your own dog being loose
> unless that dog is so entirely dangerous you cannot recapture it!
> or its roaming the neighborhood biting people and other pets!
> ...


It isn't like that here in lots of areas. You call the non emergency number, they get you over to the 911 dispatcher and they dispatch it . If there is no animal control in that town, then police come out. I had an injured stray cat, I called non emergency, they did transfer me to 911 dispatcher, where I was told animal control doesn't come and get cats .


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

llombardo just because your area is like that doesnt mean you should assume they all are
because they arent
just sayin :shrug:


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Mine is like that.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

my boy diesel said:


> llombardo just because your area is like that doesnt mean you should assume they all are
> because they arent
> just sayin :shrug:


I was born and raised in the Chicago area, so it's safe to say that I do know what the areas are like. I did lots of research in these areas when I was going to become a police officer. So yes I feel VERY comfortable saying that and I can and will stand by it. Some areas have town animal control , police, or county animal control, it is what it is , take it or leave it , but don't say I'm assuming when in fact you are assuming I don't know.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Mine is like that.


I think it depends on the towns population and the need for the service. Where my dad lives, if started with police , went to an animal control officer to a couple animal control officers and a couple shelters to hold strays and adopt them out if needed. He lives closer to the city, so lots of dogs wandering from there and creating that need.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

So the officer was there cause of the dog.....is that right??
Doesn't make a lot of sense.....why do you need a police officer to help catch your own dog??
Bizarre......


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm pretty sure he wasn't fired for shooting the dog. It was probably for violating a procedure or something. Either discharging his gun was not justified or something like that. They found something.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Who cares how crazy it sounds? For whatever reason, the dog got out, the owners went looking for it, they called the police to either report the dog missing or requesting help catching him(it isn't much crazier then a fireman getting a cat out of the tree), they found and caught dog, officer walked up with gun drawn and killed said dog in front of a kid and many others. I did read that people were quite upset that he took the shot without any regard to public safety.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

sparra said:


> So the officer was there cause of the dog.....is that right??
> Doesn't make a lot of sense.....why do you need a police officer to help catch your own dog??
> Bizarre......


But you might call animal control and if your town doesn't have animal control, the police take on that role. Not really that bizarre IMO


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

jafo220 said:


> I'm pretty sure he wasn't fired for shooting the dog. It was probably for violating a procedure or something. Either discharging his gun was not justified or something like that. They found something.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Here is a bit more..( I think)


"On 7/25/14 Police Dispatch received a phone call (recorded call on file) from the dog owners home that their dog a 16 month shepard/pit mix was loose and requested the Police to watch out for the dog.The Officer located the dog in the area and followed it back to its home. The Officer reports while attempting to coax the dog back into the house the dog turned, growled and approached him in a threatening manner. The Officer then withdrew his service weapon and fired one shot striking the dog. Although the Officer may have been justified under the Illinois Use of Force statute governing deadly force, I have made the decision to terminate that Officers employment with the Hometown Police Department. In addition, all reports and witness statements will be forwarded to the Illinois State Police Public Integrity Unit to be reviewed."


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Since Illinois just passed a law on this very thing, people also petitioned the governor, which I'm sure didn't help the officer. There will always be the first few that will be made examples of.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I might call the sheriff to see if anyone has reported the loose dog. This might give you a jump on where to look for the dog, if anyone reported the dog. I have called the sheriff for loose dogs that I have seen to see if anyone had reported a dog missing. 

My take on it, is if your kid runs away, and you call the police, the police will try to find your kid. If your kid pulls a gun on the officer, and the officer then shoots your kid, he is not wrong because you called them. 

it sounds like the officers located the dog and followed it home. When it was there the dog then made an aggressive advance toward the officer, and the officer shot the dog. The owners accident or not, are at fault. Their dog got loose. 

If you have GSDs, if you have Rotties, if you have pit bulls, if you have Cane Corsos, if you have Presa Canarios, you can't have the lackadaisical attitude that accidents happen. Yes, accidents happen, and when they do, sometimes there are some pretty bad consequences. If we rely on that excuse, our dogs can become dead dogs, because cops might risk a bite from a spaniel or a hound or a little dog, but I don't know if they should be forced to risk an attack from more formidable dogs. 

If you cannot manage a dog with your kids, then you shouldn't have a dog. Tough luck for the kid. His folks did not bother to train the dog or the kid, so the dog had to die and the kid had to watch it happen. Crappy parents, crappy dog owners, why should the cops not be crappy too? If your dog is running loose and it gets run over, or shot, or killed by a police dog, it's your fault. Dogs will be dogs. Boys will be boys. Not good enough.

The cop was fired too quick. After fifteen years, there was probably a whole lot more behind it. I am not saying he didn't deserve it, but if he got along with his boss ok, my guess is they wouldn't have given him the shaft right off the bat.


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## EMH (Jul 28, 2014)

selzer said:


> The kid would still have her dog if people would be more careful. Teach the dog to go through a door where there is a fence only, or to stay on the porch until it is leashed, or to stay in the yard.
> 
> The dog was off the owner's property, the police were called because of the dog, and now the dog is dead and a cop is fired. It sounds like the 15 year veteran was probably totally in the wrong for shooting the dog, and then saying it had to be done, but ultimately, dog owners that want to keep their animals alive NEED to protect them by keeping them under control and contained.
> 
> ...


blaming_the_victim.txt


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> I might call the sheriff to see if anyone has reported the loose dog. This might give you a jump on where to look for the dog, if anyone reported the dog. I have called the sheriff for loose dogs that I have seen to see if anyone had reported a dog missing.
> 
> My take on it, is if your kid runs away, and you call the police, the police will try to find your kid. If your kid pulls a gun on the officer, and the officer then shoots your kid, he is not wrong because you called them.
> 
> ...


Couldn't disagree more. All the officer had to do is say, is this your dog you were looking for ? Answer would have been yes and the response should have been okay have a good day, not a bullet in the head. This is a very small town and very inappropriate behavior on the officer end. The officer should have to also pay up in any lawsuits, not the town.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I wish more people thought like selzer does, because then I wouldn't have so many roaming dogs in my neighborhood. If everyone thought that leaving the property might lead to the dog's demise, they'd probably put a little more effort into keeping them at home.

Even my neighbor, whose dog gets into everyone's garbage - so what if she was mortified about that and is now keeping him in until after pick-up time. WTH, her dog is out there eating anything and everything! It's not like her dog picked Wed. mornings to go to the buffet, lol.


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## Josh3238 (Apr 29, 2014)

As a cop and a gsd (2) owner I am very cautious around other police officers. If a police officer so happens to be in the neighbor hood I put them inside just to be cautious. From a police officers stand point I'm not sure why he was fired. Granted he was a jerk and unprofessional for what he said but nothing from what the story reports gives any justification to him being fired. I am almost 100% certain that he will file a lawsuit and get his job back and receive a big check for unlawful termination. This actually happens a lot. As I police officer I have been attacked by maybe 3 or 4 pitbulls and have never shot one. I have actually jumped on top of the cruiser so I wouldn't get bitten or have to use my weapon on the dog. Many people complain of cops shooting dogs and I do agree that some officers are jerks and have zero tact. I am not saying that officers can avoid all interactions with dogs but sometimes we can look for clues such as bowls or dog crap on lawns. A lot of time dogs can get the jump on us and even though they are doing they job and protecting their home we are also doing our jobs and protecting ourselves from serious boldly injury. You all May think that being bite by a dog isn't too bad but if your department decides that you are not able to recover to their liking you will be medically retired and receive pennies in a settlement which means you could lose your home and family. Any officers are not willing to take that chance. I believe that departments should train us officers on this subject. I work for one of the major departments in the US and there version of dog awareness training was a 30 minute DVD and "try not to shoot dogs". That doesn't cut it......as a dog owner I was very upset because a DVD on dogs will not properly train you when you encounter certain dogs. 
From the stand point of a dog owner I feel terrible. My dogs are my family they are my children and I would never want anything to happen to them. So why not have your dog trained so this doesn't happen. 
I am not defending all LEO but I think we need to look at the issue as a whole and force proper training. I am pretty sure I will get destroyed for this post but it's just from a police officers point of view.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

You'd better not get destroyed for your post, lol! It's a well-written piece that gives a perspective that most of us here don't have. I, for one, thank you for it


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I got stuck with no gas a few days ago lol. After reading all these stories all I kept repeating was, he doesn't bite and clutching the leash because he was going at the cops.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Josh3238 said:


> As a cop and a gsd (2) owner I am very cautious around other police officers. If a police officer so happens to be in the neighbor hood I put them inside just to be cautious. From a police officers stand point I'm not sure why he was fired. Granted he was a jerk and unprofessional for what he said but nothing from what the story reports gives any justification to him being fired. I am almost 100% certain that he will file a lawsuit and get his job back and receive a big check for unlawful termination. This actually happens a lot. As I police officer I have been attacked by maybe 3 or 4 pitbulls and have never shot one. I have actually jumped on top of the cruiser so I wouldn't get bitten or have to use my weapon on the dog. Many people complain of cops shooting dogs and I do agree that some officers are jerks and have zero tact. I am not saying that officers can avoid all interactions with dogs but sometimes we can look for clues such as bowls or dog crap on lawns. A lot of time dogs can get the jump on us and even though they are doing they job and protecting their home we are also doing our jobs and protecting ourselves from serious boldly injury. You all May think that being bite by a dog isn't too bad but if your department decides that you are not able to recover to their liking you will be medically retired and receive pennies in a settlement which means you could lose your home and family. Any officers are not willing to take that chance. I believe that departments should train us officers on this subject. I work for one of the major departments in the US and there version of dog awareness training was a 30 minute DVD and "try not to shoot dogs". That doesn't cut it......as a dog owner I was very upset because a DVD on dogs will not properly train you when you encounter certain dogs.
> From the stand point of a dog owner I feel terrible. My dogs are my family they are my children and I would never want anything to happen to them. So why not have your dog trained so this doesn't happen.
> I am not defending all LEO but I think we need to look at the issue as a whole and force proper training. I am pretty sure I will get destroyed for this post but it's just from a police officers point of view.


Part of the problem is that Illinois passed the law that more training is required. So was training given and ignored, so officer was fired? A petition for his dismissal did go to the governor that passed the law.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> I wish more people thought like selzer does, because then I wouldn't have so many roaming dogs in my neighborhood. If everyone thought that leaving the property might lead to the dog's demise, they'd probably put a little more effort into keeping them at home.
> 
> Even my neighbor, whose dog gets into everyone's garbage - so what if she was mortified about that and is now keeping him in until after pick-up time. WTH, her dog is out there eating anything and everything! It's not like her dog picked Wed. mornings to go to the buffet, lol.


There is a difference between dogs that roam all day everyday and dogs that might escape or get out on rare occasion. I do not think dogs should be allowed to roam. The shootings in question are all done on properties of where dogs live, that is the problem.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> You'd better not get destroyed for your post, lol! It's a well-written piece that gives a perspective that most of us here don't have. I, for one, thank you for it


I agree with the post. More officers need to use common sense and be more like our poster.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Josh, your post was lucid and to the point. No one is going to slam you for that. I think the owners are as much at fault as the police officer who went overboard. And obviously the training of how to deal with dogs is totaly inadequate. The problem with all this is many times dogs of protective breeds ACT aggressive but ( like my dogs) when you get close, they lick you to death.


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## Clancy_Wiggum (Mar 21, 2014)

I don't know the governor, but the Lt Gov is a former professor of mine. Politics aside, she is an animal-lover, and would have supported any legislation to reduce dogs getting shot by police.


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## Josh3238 (Apr 29, 2014)

I have seen the trend that police department are going after officers who have degrees and believe that because they are educated that means that they have common sense. That is not the case because from what I have observed is that some officers can really read the **** out of a book but can not apply that to everyday life. Also police departments are claiming that their officers are trained by giving us a 30 minute class which has zero substance and can't be applied to real life. This "training" is more of a front so the department can cover itself and blame the officer by saying "he didn't follow the training". I think everyone involved is a little to blame and we shouldn't be so easy to lynch this guy. Also even though the governor passed a law that doesn't mean that he will not sue the town and department. If he was found not liable but the chief still fired him, the ones losing will be tax payers because they will foot the bill when he wins his million dollar lawsuit in 3 or 4 years. 
In this shoes I would like to say I wouldn't shoot the dog but it would be unfair to say not while not being in that position at that moment. The whole situation is unfortunate.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Josh3238 said:


> I have seen the trend that police department are going after officers who have degrees and believe that because they are educated that means that they have common sense. That is not the case because from what I have observed is that some officers can really read the **** out of a book but can not apply that to everyday life. Also police departments are claiming that their officers are trained by giving us a 30 minute class which has zero substance and can't be applied to real life. This "training" is more of a front so the department can cover itself and blame the officer by saying "he didn't follow the training". I think everyone involved is a little to blame and we shouldn't be so easy to lynch this guy. Also even though the governor passed a law that doesn't mean that he will not sue the town and department. If he was found not liable but the chief still fired him, the ones losing will be tax payers because they will foot the bill when he wins his million dollar lawsuit in 3 or 4 years.
> In this shoes I would like to say I wouldn't shoot the dog but it would be unfair to say not while not being in that position at that moment. The whole situation is unfortunate.


I have to say that I appreciate your honesty and ability not to sugar coat things and tell it like it is. You are the kind of officer that I used to know many years ago and respected.


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## Skywalkers Mom (Oct 26, 2012)

I agree on more thorough training for officers. What I like to point out is every human is as different as every dog is different. Circumstances also are a factor. Dog owners need to be aware of the possibility of agression in their dogs and work to end that. Officers allready know that is often not the case. Is there an easy answer, no. Anyone that has one speak up and tell the world.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

EMH said:


> blaming_the_victim.txt


Not really. The victim had four paws and is currently dead. His owners are the perpetrators in my opinion. They failed their dog. Yes, we do have to believe that whenever our dog gets loose -- out of our yard, out of our sight, it can be killed. And less dogs would be lost, less dogs would get bitches pregnant, fewer bitches would have oops litters, fewer dogs would become road pizza, fewer farmers and hunters would have to apply the 3 S's. Fewer little children would have to learn what it feels like to lose your pet suddenly and avoidably. Fewer dogs would be poisoned. Fewer dogs would attack other dogs and people. Fewer laws would be passed restricting dog ownership. Fewer lawsuits would be filed. And the list goes on and on.

If you want a shepherd/pit bull mix, you have to pay attention to security -- mix two breeds that are known to have aggression and a negative image/reputation -- brilliant. Then let it get out and run around.

Not so many months ago people were jumping my shtuff because I felt that a six month old puppy isn't something to be afraid of. Well, this one was 14 months old, and while that is a baby to some of us, it is also a large, adolescent that can look very reactive/aggressive. 

I guess I just do not have too much compassion for people who own formidable dogs and don't bother to train and manage them properly. 

They don't let the dog roam, that's true, but from the LEOs point of view -- he doesn't know you, he doesn't know your dog, he doesn't know if this dog has already bitten people, he doesn't know anything except the dog turn and acted aggressive toward him. 

It's a small town. I live in a small town. The cops in my parents town know me as the lady with the GSDs. But they wouldn't be able to identify my dogs. They wouldn't know whether or not they would be aggressive. And I am talking about a really small town. If my dog was out running loose and acted aggressive toward an LEO, and they shot the dog, It would be my fault. Totally. 

The dog may have been back on the property at that time, remember the cop followed it home. But, it obviously was not under control at the time. 

And as for the cop endangering children by firing, that would only be proven true if one of the kids got shot. Otherwise he most likely has enough firearms training to shoot the dog without endangering anyone.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> Couldn't disagree more. All the officer had to do is say, is this your dog you were looking for ? Answer would have been yes and the response should have been okay have a good day, not a bullet in the head. This is a very small town and very inappropriate behavior on the officer end. The officer should have to also pay up in any lawsuits, not the town.


Don't understand what the very small town has to do with it. They are large enough to have a police department with more than one officer. 

The officer followed it back home. If he just wanted to shoot a dog, he would have shot it without following it home. Just because it got back home before being aggressive or territorial doesn't mean it wasn't. The cop was there doing his job. The dog was not under control.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> Don't understand what the very small town has to do with it. They are large enough to have a police department with more than one officer.
> 
> The officer followed it back home. If he just wanted to shoot a dog, he would have shot it without following it home. Just because it got back home before being aggressive or territorial doesn't mean it wasn't. The cop was there doing his job. The dog was not under control.


Per witness and owner statements he had gun drawn as he walked up, which is a choice he made. The other choice would have been to either wait for the owners to get the dog into the house before approaching or even calling them to the car to finish up the call. He made the choice to approach with his gun drawn. Even if that part of the story isn't true, he still had choices that would have involved no contact with the dog. Not one witness saw the dog bare it's teeth, just the officer, so I wouldn't say the dog was being aggressive either. You choose to believe the officers story , I choose to believe all the other witnesses and so did his fellow officer and boss.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

And there were 2 other officers that showed up with the one that did the shooting. The officer that did the shooting was a part time officer. I also strongly believe that the other two officers gave their account of what happened and it was similar to the other witnesses. There is no way this officer would have been fired if his own fellow officers thought what happened should have happened.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> Per witness and owner statements he had gun drawn as he walked up, which is a choice he made. The other choice would have been to either wait for the owners to get the dog into the house before approaching or even calling them to the car to finish up the call. He made the choice to approach with his gun drawn. Even if that part of the story isn't true, he still had choices that would have involved no contact with the dog. Not one witness saw the dog bare it's teeth, just the officer, so I wouldn't say the dog was being aggressive either. You choose to believe the officers story , I choose to believe all the other witnesses and so did his fellow officer and boss.


If, it is a small enough town, then the other officers and the boss may not like the guy, may be more corrupt than the guy. No way to tell. Yes, small town departments do have their share of bad apples. 

I don't choose to believe the officer. I just have no compassion for people who choose to own breeds of dogs known for bites and even killing of humans, and then don't bother to keep them properly contained -- then when something happens, they whine and cry about how crappy the cops are, instead of taking the responsibility on themselves for their own failure. 

The dog would not have been shot if it had not been loose. And you can't argue that. If you want to own a pit, or a pit-mix, or a GSD, or a GSD-mix, then you just don't have the luxury of letting dogs be dogs, and saying accidents will happen. If you want your dog to be alive at the end of the day, it's on you to keep it safe. If the dog was on lead, it would be a totally different story. If the dog was inside a secure fence, different story. The dog was loose. The dog would be alive today if the people were more careful.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> And there were 2 other officers that showed up with the one that did the shooting. The officer that did the shooting was a part time officer. I also strongly believe that the other two officers gave their account of what happened and it was similar to the other witnesses. There is no way this officer would have been fired if his own fellow officers thought what happened should have happened.


I disagree. I think that sometimes when a department wants to be shut of someone, they just wait for a good enough of an excuse. Gosh, that must be one tiny town to have two full time guys and a part timer all at the scene of a lost dog!

My guess is that it is probably 10 times the size of my parent's town -- mine doesn't count because it is just a township in a large county covered by a sheriff, that is so understaffed that when someone called to say there is a women calling for help from the woods behind the house, they couldn't be bothered to send anyone to check it out. When the caller called back to say an elderly woman was trapped under a tree out there, they told the caller to take care of it. LOL! Yeah, we wouldn't be sending multiple guys to a report of a missing pooch of any type. 

You got to remember you are dealing with the news too. And they can be sensationalizing this. Really. What happened to getting all the facts before crucifying someone? You will disagree with me, but you agree with the guy that comes on saying he's a cop, and this is his take on it. Whatever. My main thing is not giving the dog owners a pass. Don't really care at all about the police end of it. The guy shot, it was investigated, the guy was fired. Fine. But the dog would be alive today if the owners kept it safe.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

You know, I'm all for keeping dogs contained. I have more than one layer of fencing in my yard in order to protect my dogs. I live among farmers, my dogs could easily be mistaken for a coyote if they got in with the cattle.

If they did get loose and did get shot, yes, it would be fault. 

I hope people would show some compassion to me though.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Betty I agree.

Selzer I think you sometimes are over harsh.

Josh and Llambardo great posts.

Just 2 days ago I had no idea my hubby was in the garage with the door up. We are generally very good about comminicating where the dogs are adn what doors are open. We failed on this one and I had 3 GSD's out in the street with my hubby helping him get the trash can up. They all came whan called and trotted back into the house. 

Could someone have called the cops ending with my dogs destroyed? Sure could have. But I would hope that someone would be understanding and that the officer would have enough sense to stay in his car until I collected the dogs. 

Stuff happens Selzer, sometimes dogs get out.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> Betty I agree.
> 
> Selzer I think you sometimes are over harsh.
> 
> ...


I agree. Midnite and Robyn got out on me once when I first got Midnite. He opened the door, no way I could have predicted that one. He did get outline more time where I live now and he walked around the car and went and peed on the tree. I followed him with my heart beating a mile a minute. My oldest got out when she was younger when my parents were leaving who are very careful when it comes to animals. My animals are very well taken care if and if one got out and a police officer showed up, he would have to shoot me first. It's called compassion. Some people have it, some don't.


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## Josh3238 (Apr 29, 2014)

I agree sometimes as Officers we become cold to everything a lose our compassion and only see things as black and white with no shades of grey. I have told my girlfirend that if some cop or anyone for that matter tries to shoot my dogs they are going to have to shoot me first because I feel that it is my resposiblty to them to take care of them and protect them.
With this incident I understand that dogs do run off. Accidents do happen because I can say that my Samson who is a 10 month old has gotten loose on me but I have had him in training since he was 16 weeks old so calling him back isnt much of an issue. Like i said previously, I believe everyone is a little at fault but frankly maybe this wouldnt have happened if they wouldve had im better trained. I am not trying to blame the "victim" but everyone should look in the mirror and evaluate what they couldve done differently. Personally I think I would be doing myself and my dogs a disservice by not giving him the tools he needs to live a life without incident. Once again accidents happen but giving yourself and your dog the proper tools you need most of these scenerios can be avioded.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I don't think anyone thought you were trying to blame the victim Josh.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Why isn't it possible to disagree with someone without calling them names? Lacking compassion...c'mon. I could easily spin that to say selzer actually has _more_ compassion, because she's concerned about the dog and what it gets up to when it's loose, and the consequences. See post #39.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

llombardo said:


> I agree. Midnite and Robyn got out on me once when I first got Midnite. He opened the door, no way I could have predicted that one. He did get outline more time where I live now and he walked around the car and went and peed on the tree. I followed him with my heart beating a mile a minute. My oldest got out when she was younger when my parents were leaving who are very careful when it comes to animals. My animals are very well taken care if and if one got out and a police officer showed up, he would have to shoot me first. It's called compassion. Some people have it, some don't.


My dogs have learned to open all the doors. Drives me nuts.

We have to actually keep them locked. 

On my storm door I actually got a door latch that I thought the dogs would not figure out. Lasted about 2 days. One morning I was watering my Lily Garden, heard a weird noise and kind of shrugged it off. 5 minutes later I heard the noise again shortly followed by a black German Shepherd bounding up to me trying to help spread the water............


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> Why isn't it possible to disagree with someone without calling them names? Lacking compassion...c'mon. I could easily spin that to say selzer actually has _more_ compassion, because she's concerned about the dog and what it gets up to when it's loose, and the consequences. See post #39.


I never said anyone in particular lacks compassion. I said some people have it and some people don't. You took it how you chose to take it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Josh3238 said:


> I agree sometimes as Officers we become cold to everything a lose our compassion and only see things as black and white with no shades of grey. I have told my girlfirend that if some cop or anyone for that matter tries to shoot my dogs they are going to have to shoot me first because I feel that it is my resposiblty to them to take care of them and protect them.
> With this incident I understand that dogs do run off. Accidents do happen because I can say that my Samson who is a 10 month old has gotten loose on me but I have had him in training since he was 16 weeks old so calling him back isnt much of an issue. Like i said previously, I believe everyone is a little at fault but frankly maybe this wouldnt have happened if they wouldve had im better trained. I am not trying to blame the "victim" but everyone should look in the mirror and evaluate what they couldve done differently. Personally I think I would be doing myself and my dogs a disservice by not giving him the tools he needs to live a life without incident. Once again accidents happen but giving yourself and your dog the proper tools you need most of these scenerios can be avioded.


You can give them the tools, but dogs that are 12-18 months don't always use them. They begin testing everything. My 14 month old golden would have thought it was all fun and games and would have ran at the officer and probably got shot. He has been in school since he was 12 weeks, but since he never has had free run of the neighborhood, he would take full advantage of it, much like the puppy that got killed.


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## ApselBear (Feb 10, 2014)

I am personally skeptical of the justification of termination and agree that someone might be getting his old job back and some compensation. I'd be curious to read all the witness statements. Too bad there is no video to show what the dog was actually doing when the owner claims he just bared his teeth.


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## Ltleo (Nov 18, 2012)

I am a certified and licenses Animal Cruelty Investigator for the state of NJ. The issues with law enforcement and at large or deemed dangerous dogs, is that they are given just one option, that is to shoot. When in doubt always contact your local ACO or ACI over law enforcement to control any issue with dogs. Now this being said, a lot of Officers treat dogs very well and will not shoot, but others will. The real issue is that they are given just the one protocol and that is to shoot. 
Hope I am not offending anyone as this was not my attempt.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ApselBear said:


> I am personally skeptical of the justification of termination and agree that someone might be getting his old job back and some compensation. I'd be curious to read all the witness statements. Too bad there is no video to show what the dog was actually doing when the owner claims he just bared his teeth.


A lady that was passing by and seen the whole thing happen and didn't even know the dog, stepped up and gave a statement. If the officer in fact wasn't lying I am sure the other two officers would have saved his job. It seems that the other two officers on site made statements defending the dog. If there is a civil lawsuit filed by the dog owner and all witnesses testify and the officer is found guilty and money is awarded to the family, I don't foresee the officer getting his job back because the civil case will be used in his case.


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## Josh3238 (Apr 29, 2014)

Apparently the department cleared him of wrong doing but the chief decided to fire him anyways so he has a good lawsuit. The family will probably sue as well and probably get a 20-30k settlement. It happens all the time because the department rather settle than fight to avoid paying court fees along with getting negative media attention. I agree with ltleo that dog owners should always call animal control before you contact the police because they have so many more options than a just gun, asp baton or OC spray.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Miss Lacks Compassion tonight had 2 seven year old girls in the car and three puppies in the back. While driving through my parents' tiny town, I saw a black lab or lab mix -- could have been a lab-pit mix. running around in the street, and then rolling on the grass. 

I pulled over and got out of my car and went to get to the door and a second was trying to get through the window to get to me. Her head was all the way out the window. Both sported leather collars and very tight prongs. 

There was a doc-bob kennel out there, but you could see where the dogs were working their way out of the bottom of it, and I thought with the collars, that could go really bad. So I called the cops. Told them where it was, and they said to wait there, so I did, and I kept the dog out of the road, and the kids in the car. 

Finally a lady drove up and she said the people were probably sleeping and she took the dog and went into the house with it. Then the LEO drove up and I told them the lady came home and took the dogs in. She lowered the window where the dog was getting out, probably the other one got out already. 

If that dog wandered off with that prong on it, it would probably have become inbedded it was so tight. 

The cop thank me for caring and drove off. He did not bother them, and I am just as glad he did not. I think having someone standing out there with their dog, to keep it out of the road, might make a difference. Otherwise, black dog, in the street, at night, it won't last long. 

If my dogs got shot because they got out I would be devastated. But I wouldn't boo hoo to the media or to the newspapers. I would blame myself more than anyone else. 

Small towns send cops because they don't have Animal Control to call. Even with the dog warden, if it is an emergency, they call the cops because the dog warden is one person for an entire county. And she may not make it that day. 

BTW -- it was one LEO for two dogs in my story that happened today, not two and a half for one. The dogs were big like GSDs. When one of the girls tried to come out of the car, I told her to stay in there. The dog was actually very nice with me, even when I went up on the porch. With the other climbing out the window though, I thought staying off the porch made more sense.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Josh3238 said:


> Apparently the department cleared him of wrong doing but the chief decided to fire him anyways so he has a good lawsuit. The family will probably sue as well and probably get a 20-30k settlement. It happens all the time because the department rather settle than fight to avoid paying court fees along with getting negative media attention. I agree with ltleo that dog owners should always call animal control before you contact the police because they have so many more options than a just gun, asp baton or OC spray.


They didn't clear of him of any wrong doing. They said “Although the Officer *may* have been justified under the Illinois Use of Force statute governing deadly force, I have made the decision to terminate that Officers employment with the Hometown Police Department.”

So what does one do if there is no animal control in he town they live in?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> The cop thank me for caring and drove off. He did not bother them, and I am just as glad he did not. I think having someone standing out there with their dog, to keep it out of the road, might make a difference. .


And this *IS* the appropriate way to handle it. This is exactly what the cop that shot the dog should have done. Someone was standing outside with their dog and he made the choice to shoot it. Now what would your thoughts be if the cop in your situation went to the house, the dog bared his teeth because the officer was on his property and then the officer proceeded to shoot the dog in front of you and the kids on his own porch? This is of course after you already know the dog isn't aggressive, because you took the time to make sure the dog was safe on his property(just like the owners of the dead dog).


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I have no problem with the actions of the PD in this case given the circumstances as outlined! In addition only a Butt hole would shoot a family dog in front of a kid in a none life threatening situation! The PD probably dumped him before he killed someone??

That being said... Seltzer is correct, had the dog been properly trained this would not have happened! My dogs don't bolt out the house and aren't out of my sight for more than a minuet if they are on the front lawn!

That being said they are also proofed on the front lawn! "On the lawn" is a command, they were taught to ignore other dogs, they don't chase cats and while my Boxer loved people, on the lawn came first for her, Rocky yeah not really a problem with him!

A well trained dog is always going to be the best safety backup against accidents!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> I have no problem with the actions of the PD in this case given the circumstances as outlined! In addition only a Butt hole would shoot a family dog in front of a kid in a none life threatening situation! The PD probably dumped him before he killed someone??
> 
> That being said... Seltzer is correct, had the dog been properly trained this would not have happened! My dogs don't bolt out the house and aren't out of my sight for more than a minuet if they are on the front lawn!
> 
> ...


The dog was on his lawn when shot and killed. The dog would have been in the house in a couple more seconds if the police backed off.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> The dog was on his lawn when shot and killed. The dog would have been in the house in a couple more seconds if the police backed off.


We are not in disagreement! The officer (i feel) was in the wrong!

But Seltzers point was, had the dog been properly trained, LE would not have been needed!

Calling 911 because your untrained dog left the yard is not much of a back up plan!?


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Calling 911 because your untrained dog left the yard is not much of a back up plan!?


Good point.....There is blame on both sides in this case. Did he have to shoot the dog.......more than likely not....but he shouldn't have had to be there in the first place.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> We are not in disagreement! The officer (i feel) was in the wrong!
> 
> But Seltzers point was, had the dog been properly trained, LE would not have been needed!
> 
> Calling 911 because your untrained dog left the yard is not much of a back up plan!?


Everyone would be lying if they said that every dog they have ever had was completely trained at this dogs age. He was still a pup. With all the training in the world my young golden would probably do the same thing and believe me when I say my golden has had continuous training for almost a year now. Yes the first thing I teach mine is a wait command so they don't dart, but some people and certainly not kids do this. They didn't call 911, they called the police to be on the look out for the dog, so the dog wasn't picked up and taken to animal control. If a dog is missing or found, lots of peoe contact the police to make a report, it's a common thing. So now people shouldn't report their dogs missing out if fear the police will shoot it?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The Cith of Chicago is a big city with animal control and police still come out quite a bit. It's safe to say in the City that if someone calls it takes at least an hour for anyone to show up, whether it's a loose or injured dog. My sister called me one day crying because she was so upset about a pit bull she found. It was a girl and came to my sister willingly, where my sister had her with another female pit without issue. Before she could decide what to do, she noticed two police officers(separate cars) cruising slowly. The female officer drew her gun and approached, the male officer remained in the car. They claim the dog my sister had killed a dog down the street 10 minutes ago. Not a sign of aggression with people or dogs and no blood or anything that would say a fight just happened. My sister begged the female not to hurt the dog, then she finally got through to the male officer. As they are standing there a call comes over that another officer caught the dog that was in the fight. The officers took the dog anyway, which made my sister very uneasy, but they didn't shoot it because she was there. If she wasn't there they would have shot that dog and it was the wrong dog. The point is that police do in fact cover animal issues, but have no clue how and shouldn't have to.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Then there is the time in the suburb I used to live that two GSD's that were in some kind of guard dog training were running through chasing kids with teeth bared in the morning. I go to take my son to school and as we are going down thd stairs my son is face to face with them with their teeth bared. Luckily animal control does exist and they just started their day. I knew the animal control person and helped with those dogs. Once they were caught they were fine. Two nights later, I was delivering pizzas and come back to my car to find these two same GSD's in my car. I thought ok, no animal control available I will just drop them off at the police station, no big deal. I had two deliveries left, both on the way. Well they decided to turn into guard dogs again after I delivered the second to last order. I couldn't get back in the running car that was in the middle of the road. It was a one lane road with no room to pass and cars parked along the sides. Traffic is now backed up and these dogs are now lunging, showing teeth and barking like fools. We didn't even chance opening the doors because there were people everywhere. We called thd police and an hour later they still weren't there. Finally some young guys armed with baseball bats stood on top of my car and opened the doors, we cleared everyone off the block, in yards and inside their houses. These dogs got out of the car and were lunging at the guy on top of the car(my whole top if car was permanently indented) they finally gave up and went searching for the next victim, everyone ran to their cars. The police ended up showing up two hours after the first call because of numerous other calls. They came and gathered the dogs up and got them in a yard where they sat and waited for the k9 facility to open and come for their dogs. The police could have and probably should have shot those dogs, they were highly aggressive and could have seriously hurt someone without a doubt. The police in this area knew how to handle dogs, because it was their job before animal control even existed. They were trained and didn't even pull their guns on dogs that were just vicious.


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## Josh3238 (Apr 29, 2014)

FYI- an officer pulling his or her weapon has nothing to do with training it has to do with threat level and fear level. Also the fact that a child was there has does not change the fact that the officer can use deadly force. The only requirement for the use of deadly force is the treat of death or serious bodily injury. A large dog bite would be considered serious bodily injury.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Josh3238 said:


> FYI- an officer pulling his or her weapon has nothing to do with training it has to do with threat level and fear level. Also the fact that a child was there has does not change the fact that the officer can use deadly force. The only requirement for the use of deadly force is the treat of death or serious bodily injury. A large dog bite would be considered serious bodily injury.


This officer is the only one out of 3 that felt threatened? He had his gun drawn as soon as he exited his car, this is after he stated that he spotted the dog and followed it home. So if the officer had this right, the reason he was fired is coming directly from witness and other statements, which state their was no threat? I really believe the other officers on site did not back up or lie for the officer and that was a problem for him. His story was nothing like anyone else's.


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Absolutely right*



selzer said:


> The kid would still have her dog if people would be more careful. Teach the dog to go through a door where there is a fence only, or to stay on the porch until it is leashed, or to stay in the yard.
> 
> The dog was off the owner's property, the police were called because of the dog, and now the dog is dead and a cop is fired. It sounds like the 15 year veteran was probably totally in the wrong for shooting the dog, and then saying it had to be done, but ultimately, dog owners that want to keep their animals alive NEED to protect them by keeping them under control and contained.
> 
> ...


My Zeus would also bear his teeth to an officer if the officer seemed threatening and if Zeus were not leashed and under control / management from me at the time. 

The good news...Zeus is NEVER OFF A LEASH AT ALL AND WON'T EVEN DARE TO DASH THE FRONT DOOR OR OUR HOME. All other entrances are fenced.

LF


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Did his fellow officers turn on him? because if your fellow bro's in the force turn on you, you know he pretty much deserves what happens, They are usually pretty thick with eachother, they usually share the same view points because they have been in the exact sitch


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Did his fellow officers turn on him? because if your fellow bro's in the force turn on you, you know he pretty much deserves what happens, They are usually pretty thick with eachother, they usually share the same view points because they have been in the exact sitch


I believe they did, maybe they didn't feel a deceased dog was worth their jobs to? There is no way he would have been fired if they didn't IMO. That doesn't happen often that we hear about. In one article the chief stated that there was no built in arbitration or appeals process for the now ex cop to turn to. He is done with no pension to draw from either.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

llombardo said:


> I believe they did. There is no way he would have been fired if they didn't. In one article the chief stated that there was no built in arbitration or appeals process for the now ex cop to turn to. He is done with no pension to draw from either.


Well i guess all of us can throw our 2 cents in and speculate all we want but if his fellow work family threw him under the bus, well- that sums it up.


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## Josh3238 (Apr 29, 2014)

Llombardo- I know officers make some inexcusable mistakes and need to be held accountable for our actions but say an officer should have done this or done that....that's truly unfair to say because we weren't there. Just because an officer like myself would rather jump on top of a car than shoot a dog that doesn't mean another officer would do that. We are not taught to retreat or coward. Also although police shooting dogs has been in the media a lot I can assure you that the majority of officers don't hit the street with the urge to shoot someone's best friend. When we sign up for this job we sign up to catch bad guys and serve. Our interactions with pets are minimal (in the city) and not always pleasant as drug houses use large dogs to protect there "stash". So saying that because how one officer handled a situation is how all should handle it is off base because every situation is different. Officers are different, there are officers who are afraid of dog some even afraid of cats. Some officers have more experience with certain situations that others don't. A blanket statement isn't even the way a jury would view a person being shot. You have to look at it from that officers point of view at that time giving the situational stress and other factors. 
You made an awesome comment about how in Chicago police handle animal complaints with knowing how to....my department does the same and I feel the same as you do. Animal control can take up too an hour to respond 5 minutes away from there headquarters and that's if they even decide to respond with puts us in a bind. I've had to catch dogs with my hands and transport them to the ASPCA without property equipment to insure my safety or the animals safety. I think the issue as a whole needs to be reevaluated and given some real importance.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Well i guess all of us can throw our 2 cents in and speculate all we want but if his fellow work family threw him under the bus, well- that sums it up.


While I disagree with the decision of the officer to shoot the dog, I see no other reason that he was fired, except from witness and fellow officer statements, mostly the other officer statements. They could have put him on leave or even transferred him, but they outright fired him almost immediately. I don't think the threat of a lawsuit by the family even matters, they will sue if he is there or not. If the officer sues and he has no one to back him up, I don't see him winning either.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Josh3238 said:


> Llombardo- I know officers make some inexcusable mistakes and need to be held accountable for our actions but say an officer should have done this or done that....that's truly unfair to say because we weren't there. Just because an officer like myself would rather jump on top of a car than shoot a dog that doesn't mean another officer would do that. We are not taught to retreat or coward. Also although police shooting dogs has been in the media a lot I can assure you that the majority of officers don't hit the street with the urge to shoot someone's best friend. When we sign up for this job we sign up to catch bad guys and serve. Our interactions with pets are minimal (in the city) and not always pleasant as drug houses use large dogs to protect there "stash". So saying that because how one officer handled a situation is how all should handle it is off base because every situation is different. Officers are different, there are officers who are afraid of dog some even afraid of cats. Some officers have more experience with certain situations that others don't. A blanket statement isn't even the way a jury would view a person being shot. You have to look at it from that officers point of view at that time giving the situational stress and other factors.
> You made an awesome comment about how in Chicago police handle animal complaints with knowing how to....my department does the same and I feel the same as you do. Animal control can take up too an hour to respond 5 minutes away from there headquarters and that's if they even decide to respond with puts us in a bind. I've had to catch dogs with my hands and transport them to the ASPCA without property equipment to insure my safety or the animals safety. I think the issue as a whole needs to be reevaluated and given some real importance.


I understand what your saying, but to have three officers on site and only one feels threatened? I understand each officer has their own thoughts on what a threat is or isn't, but shouldn't it be a standard somewhere? If this officer was attacked by this dog, I'm sure the other officers would have reacted appropriately and it would have been justified. It would be a whole different situation if it was only one officer. There was no reason for him to approach to begin with if he had any fear of dogs. The dog was almost in the house, he made it worse. There was a huge lack if common sense and it's scary to think that levels of fear can play a role with officers regarding people or animals. There should be protocols for all of this and if an officer can't handle the level needed, they shouldn't be an officer.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

the thing is, the chief said in a statement quoted above that the officer was likely justified in shooting the dog. So he wasn't fired because he did something wrong. He was fired because the city didn't want to deal with bad press. 

And a lot would depend on the experience of the officers, how they feel about dogs in general, how close they were to the dog, etc. 
My husband has seen cops who don't pull their guns because they didn't even realize they were possibly in danger. One of those instances where only my husband had his weapon drawn, the suspect actually had a pistol in his pocket. The other 2 officers with him just didn't consider the idea that someone would shoot a cop in a small town area like this. 

There is no way to train "level of threat" The guideline is, would a reasonable person in that position feel threatened. 
The dog wasn't under the control of anyone at the home, from the stories. The dog went into the yard, the officers followed the dog. The dog turned and growled/bared teeth/whatever at the officer. 
It still all comes down to, if the owners had contained the dog, the dog wouldn't have been wandering the streets.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Dainerra said:


> the thing is, the chief said in a statement quoted above that the officer was likely justified in shooting the dog. So he wasn't fired because he did something wrong. He was fired because the city didn't want to deal with bad press.
> 
> And a lot would depend on the experience of the officers, how they feel about dogs in general, how close they were to the dog, etc.
> My husband has seen cops who don't pull their guns because they didn't even realize they were possibly in danger. One of those instances where only my husband had his weapon drawn, the suspect actually had a pistol in his pocket. The other 2 officers with him just didn't consider the idea that someone would shoot a cop in a small town area like this.
> ...


He didn't have to be fired over bad press, he simply could have been transferred. The chief said May have been justified, that went out the window when the other officers and several witnesses stated it wasn't. I will not blame the owners on this one because I am almost positive it's the little girl that let the dog out. There is no way that I could with a good conscious tell that little girl the dog is dead because of her. And if the officer stood back and allowed them to the dog would have been contained. This wasn't an emergency call and it was a huge lack of common sense on the officers part. He didn't even need to get out of the car... What would make someone that might be be scared of dogs approach it when not needed? The dog weighed under 50 pounds and was a happy go lucky puppy, really not the hugest of a threat, not one person seen the dog show any signs of aggression, well except for the cop that shot him. Surely the officers standing next to him would have seen the same thing?


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## Josh3238 (Apr 29, 2014)

It's not necessarily true that two officers see or feel the same thing. I have next to officers and have seen something that they didn't. It happens it's not very uncommon. Also I wouldn't put to much into what the media has to say because they are known to exaggerate and add to stories to give it some spice. To say the officer didn't have to get out of the care is called neglect of duty with is punishable by prison. Officers to not have the luxury of saying "hey I don't feel like going to this call". We are mandated by law to respond when called. I believe someone wrote that he was a part time officer...probably lacks experience to deal with certain situations or doesn't have great situational awareness. That being said just because a dog is 50lbs doesn't mean it's not a threat. We can not determine that officers threat level. I personally can't understand why people are afraid of spiders but they are. I can measure there fear.


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## Josh3238 (Apr 29, 2014)

It's not necessarily true that two officers see or feel the same thing. I have next to officers and have seen something that they didn't. It happens it's not very uncommon. Also I wouldn't put to much into what the media has to say because they are known to exaggerate and add to stories to give it some spice. To say the officer didn't have to get out of the care is called neglect of duty with is punishable by prison. Officers to not have the luxury of saying "hey I don't feel like going to this call". We are mandated by law to respond when called. I believe someone wrote that he was a part time officer...probably lacks experience to deal with certain situations or doesn't have great situational awareness. That being said just because a dog is 50lbs doesn't mean it's not a threat. We can not determine that officers threat level. I personally can't understand why people are afraid of spiders but they are. I cant measure there fear.


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## Josh3238 (Apr 29, 2014)

It's not necessarily true that two officers see or feel the same thing. I have next to officers and have seen something that they didn't. It happens it's not very uncommon. Also I wouldn't put to much into what the media has to say because they are known to exaggerate and add to stories to give it some spice. To say the officer didn't have to get out of the care is called neglect of duty with is punishable by prison. Officers to not have the luxury of saying "hey I don't feel like going to this call". We are mandated by law to respond when called. I believe someone wrote that he was a part time officer...probably lacks experience to deal with certain situations or doesn't have great situational awareness. That being said just because a dog is 50lbs doesn't mean it's not a threat. We can not determine that officers threat level. I personally can't understand why people are afraid of spiders but they are. I cant measure thier fear.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

didn't the owners say the dog showed teeth?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> Stuff happens Selzer, sometimes dogs get out.


Yep. At our old house I came home from work to find Sneaker gone from the yard. The gates were closed and I couldn't figure out how she could have gotten out. I walked the neighborhood and called, but she was nowhere to be seen. I went around to all the neighbors and one of them said that a board was loose in the fence, and that she'd gotten out a few times before but they put her back and adjusted the board. Unfortunately, they'd never told us this before so we had no idea, and while it was very nice of them to put her away when they found her out, we were also furious that they'd never told us that she'd gotten out. Another neighbor said his girlfriend had come over with her Akita and it had attacked Sneaker, who had been hanging out in the front yard waiting for us to come home, and she ran off.  

It took two days of looking before we found her, and it may not have happened at all if the California Highway Patrol hadn't helped us. This was over 20 years ago, before the explosion news stories about pets being killed by LEOs. We were SO grateful. I had called all the shelters, and we got several reports of her being seen but each time it had been awhile and by the time I got there she was gone again. One of them was very near a freeway on and off ramp, so we were terrified that she would end up there. As it turned out, she did. 

As we were driving around Saturday morning we saw two CHPs stopped and chatting with each other, so Tom pulled over and I jumped out and went to ask them if they'd heard anything about a GSD on the freeway. They said they had, and told me where. I said that was my dog and we'd been looking for her for two days. We called dispatch and I gave them our phone numbers (back then we had one of those huge "mobile" phones that didn't actually work very well in the car), and asked them if they could call us right away if any more reports came in. We continued driving back and forth on the stretch of freeway where she'd been spotted trotting at the side of the road. I kept calling our home number to see if the CHP had left a message for us yet, and suddenly a call was coming in. It was dispatch, and they had a report within the last 10 minutes. They said an officer was following along behind her, so we looked for his car and spotted it on the other side of the freeway. We couldn't see her since there was an embankment and she was down off the roadside, but we could tell where she was - the car was parked and the officer was out of his car looking down the embankment. 

We took the next exit, raced through the streets, and pulled over near the base of an offramp near where the CHP car was. Tom jumped out and ran up the ramp onto the freeway while I parked, and by the time I'd followed I heard him yell "Sneaker!" but couldn't see anything yet because of the curve of the ramp. My heart dropped. I was relieved we'd found her, but it was a very busy freeway and I was terrified that we'd spook her into traffic and watch her get hit by a car. She was just as terrified, but fortunately, she just ran along the side of the road instead of into traffic, and Tom ran after her. He said "that's her" as he ran by the officer, and kept going. It was at a junction of two freeways, and the officer said I should take the car up to 580, which was where she was heading, so she'd be between us. I ran back to the car, and by the time I got to 580 I could see the CHP car on the side of the freeway so I stopped and jumped out. There was an embankment there too, with so many bushes that it was impossible to see anything, so I started hiking down and walking towards the direction she would have been coming. During this time, Tom had apparently managed to pinch Sneaker in a junction of two fences so she had to stop, and then she realized who he was and came to him. By the time I hiked back up, they were both safely in the back of the CHP car. He had me get in and backed up to where our car was. 

Even though she was very people friendly and had likely never done anything threatening towards anyone when she was on the run, she was definitely a potential traffic threat. The CHP went out of their way to help us get her back, which they did not have to do, and they did what they could to try and keep her off the roadway and herd her towards that offramp. If this had happened now instead of 22 years ago, back when my dog potentially being shot for simply being a loose GSD was not even on my radar, it would have been an even more harrowing experience than it was.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

What a nice story and so happy it had a happy ending, even if it is 20 years old...............


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Yep. At our old house I came home from work to find Sneaker gone from the yard. The gates were closed and I couldn't figure out how she could have gotten out. I walked the neighborhood and called, but she was nowhere to be seen. I went around to all the neighbors and one of them said that a board was loose in the fence, and that she'd gotten out a few times before but they put her back and adjusted the board. Unfortunately, they'd never told us this before so we had no idea, and while it was very nice of them to put her away when they found her out, we were also furious that they'd never told us that she'd gotten out. Another neighbor said his girlfriend had come over with her Akita and it had attacked Sneaker, who had been hanging out in the front yard waiting for us to come home, and she ran off.
> 
> It took two days of looking before we found her, and it may not have happened at all if the California Highway Patrol hadn't helped us. This was over 20 years ago, before the explosion news stories about pets being killed by LEOs. We were SO grateful. I had called all the shelters, and we got several reports of her being seen but each time it had been awhile and by the time I got there she was gone again. One of them was very near a freeway on and off ramp, so we were terrified that she would end up there. As it turned out, she did.
> 
> ...


That had to be just mentally exhausting and horrifying. I am glad that it worked out for everyone.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Yep. At our old house I came home from work to find Sneaker gone from the yard. The gates were closed and I couldn't figure out how she could have gotten out. I walked the neighborhood and called, but she was nowhere to be seen. I went around to all the neighbors and one of them said that a board was loose in the fence, and that she'd gotten out a few times before but they put her back and adjusted the board. Unfortunately, they'd never told us this before so we had no idea, and while it was very nice of them to put her away when they found her out, we were also furious that they'd never told us that she'd gotten out. Another neighbor said his girlfriend had come over with her Akita and it had attacked Sneaker, who had been hanging out in the front yard waiting for us to come home, and she ran off.
> 
> It took two days of looking before we found her, and it may not have happened at all if the California Highway Patrol hadn't helped us. This was over 20 years ago, before the explosion news stories about pets being killed by LEOs. We were SO grateful. I had called all the shelters, and we got several reports of her being seen but each time it had been awhile and by the time I got there she was gone again. One of them was very near a freeway on and off ramp, so we were terrified that she would end up there. As it turned out, she did.
> 
> ...


Stuff happens, yes. But I wouldn't sell a puppy to someone with the attitude that the owners of the dog this thread is made about should sue because their dog was shot by a cop. 

Really, if your dog was shot or slaughtered in the road, would you blame the police or farmer or hunter, or blame the driver because your terrified dog acted terrified/aggressive, or ran in front of a car and got creamed? Well nowadays, dog owners should sue if the accident caused by their property management, results in the death of their dog. 

In my opinion, I think people should be extremely careful with young dogs that aren't well-trained yet, and they should be doubly careful with breeds that have nasty reputations. That way the dogs have a chance. 

And, Lombardo, if the cops got out of the car and one of those large black dogs snarled at it yesterday, then fine, he could shoot it, and I wouldn't have any problem with it. I have a bunch of dogs and their scent is all over me. I know dogs, and I am not afraid of them. So I am probably not going to instil the same type of response out of the dog. My nieces were in the car. If they were out of the car, and that dog snarled at the cop, than it would be that much better that the cop shot the dog. 

The cop did not have a chance to know whether the kid present belonged to the dog or not. Or if these were just possible potential victims. I know my nieces really well. I have been babysitting them regularly since the younger turned two. But she opened that door and stepped out while I was holding the dog. I called sharply to her, and told her to get in the car and shut the door. 

The dogs may have been labs, they looked like lab mixes. They were large, like large GSDs, they were skinnier than typical labs. They were big dogs with strong looking jaws. If doing a good deed got one of my nieces bit, I would be kicking myself for real.

What we as dog owners have to come away with, is that police officers do not know our dogs. They do not see Fluffy, they see 75 pounds of muscle and teeth, and a potential threat. If the ears stand up, the 75 pound looks 90 pounds. And we have to EXPECT them to kill our dogs. Like I expect the dog to get killed in the road, or shot by hunters, or killed by farmers. I expect it. 

Just because we got one back, and nothing much was wrong with her from her jaunt. Well, it could make us complacent. Or it could make us batten our hatches and train the dog and realize how God gave us a little bit of grace, a second chance with our dog. 

You can choose either road on this, but if you side with the dog owners, and try to encourage more police departments to undergo training, and so on and so forth, well more and more dogs get killed. My way, smack the owners upside the head, tell them to stop blubbering, throw out their lawsuit, and fine them for letting their dog be at large -- for causing their dog's demise, get tough on dog owners, don't accept the baloney that accidents happen (of course they do, but that should never come out as a defense), then people get better and keeping their dogs at home, and fewer dogs are shot, run over, poisoned, etc.

Yes, I did say that if I was the judge on this case, I would definitely throw out any lawsuit. And, if I was able to do so, I would fine them for having the dog at large. GSD-Pit mixes, when they get loose, do stuff that causes all dog owners trouble. People that own these breeds have to quit blubbering and get smarter.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

selzer said:


> Really, if your dog was shot or slaughtered in the road, would you blame the police or farmer or hunter, or blame the driver because your terrified dog acted terrified/aggressive, or ran in front of a car and got creamed? Well nowadays, dog owners should sue if the accident caused by their property management, results in the death of their dog.
> 
> In my opinion, I think people should be extremely careful with young dogs that aren't well-trained yet, and they should be doubly careful with breeds that have nasty reputations. That way the dogs have a chance.


No, it my dog was off my property I would not sue. On my property possibly, it would depend on the situation, and I may use the lawsuit or the threat of a lawsuit to get something changed.

Out of all the dogs killed off property in this country every year, I doubt if there there are a significant amount of lawsuits. I would imagine the number is quite negligible.

Good responsible owners have accidents. If their dog is killed because of a momentary lapse I am not going to beat them up.

And I hope that it if happened to me I would be shown compassion. Because if one my dogs died because of me I would be in a spiritual Hades.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Betty said:


> No, it my dog was off my property I would not sue. On my property possibly, it would depend on the situation, and I may use the lawsuit or the threat of a lawsuit to get something changed.
> 
> Out of all the dogs killed off property in this country every year, I doubt if there there are a significant amount of lawsuits. I would imagine the number is quite negligible.
> 
> ...


Spiritual Hades.. I like that


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

If my dog got shot on my property I would sue. It wouldn't be about the money because no amount of money would get my dog back. It would be to hopefully change things and since I'm human to make everyone I would sue miserable like they made me.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

You know, I think most of the people on this board are responsible dog owners....If not I don't really see them spending much time on a forum.

Guarantee my neighbors that open up there door and let the dogs out to roam "cause that's how it is in the country" aren't on any dog boards.

So who is reading that the death of their dog is all their fault? The person that had maybe one isolated incident? Or the one that doesn't give a darn?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Betty said:


> You know, I think most of the people on this board are responsible dog owners....If not I don't really see them spending much time on a forum.
> 
> Guarantee my neighbors that open up there door and let the dogs out to roam "cause that's how it is in the country" aren't on any dog boards.
> 
> So who is reading that the death of their dog is all their fault? The person that had maybe one isolated incident? Or the one that doesn't give a darn?


Very true. It would be a huge accident if something like this happened to me. Geez I'm still looking for my cat that fell out the window with the screen. I get literally sick to my stomach as each day passes with no signs of her. I try not blaming myself because I couldn't have known the screen would come out, but I still feel really guilty I feel like I failed her and it makes me sick.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No, the perpetrator of this incident is not here, to beat up on. If this thread was, "Oh my, my dog got out, and I called the police, and they came and they shot my dog when it got back home!" I doubt my response would be, "Well, why was the dog running loose, you yoyo!" 

But in fact the thread was, "Look at that, another cop kills a dog, this one got fired, what a jerk!" I am not burdened with the cops-are-all-heroes mania that some people here seem to have, and I don't have the I-like-police-dogs, so-I-like-police insanity either. In fact, I have been accused of being a cop hater. I guess I hate more people who blame everybody but themselves when something awful happens to their dog. 

The dog was off the property. Just because it made it back to the property before it did whatever it did to the officer who was there at the request of the home-owner, doesn't mean the cop should take a bite. The dog was not held by anyone, it wasn't under control. Yes, it may have ended differently if the cop backed down, but it is not what all cops are going to do, facing an aggressive dog. 

Even on your property, if the cops are there doing their job, they can shoot your dog, so you still have to keep them safe.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

But there are people on this board that are haunted when because of a lapse one of their dogs were killed. 

Your posts your call.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

In a perfect world I guess if your dog got out it would be safe from harm.......but in the real world once your dog is off your property and out of your control bad things happen. It would be nice to think everyone would show compassion but it's just not gonna happen.......I don't understand why people are so surprised by this......If my dogs get away I would be surprised if they came home alive.....not dead.....Our neighbors would shoot them.......they just won't ever be given a chance to shoot them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Betty said:


> But there are people on this board that are haunted when because of a lapse one of their dogs were killed.
> 
> Your posts your call.


Someone once told me that you have to have 2 or 3 lapses to cause an accident; like you didn't sleep all night, and you are putting your sweat shirt on while driving. Or, 1 -- the dog is not trained; 2 -- the screen door latch is broken; and 3 -- kids are running in and out, answering the door, etc. Of course, there are Act of God type accidents, like, when the deer jumps out of nowhere, or a tree falls on your house or car, but most of the time, accidents can be averted, by reducing the negligence, fixing the door latch, not trusting to a wood fence to keep a shepherd contained all day, not putting your sweatshirt over your head while driving down the road, not texting and driving, not driving under the influence, etc. And most of the dogs that get killed are killed because of repeated offenses of being out of the control of a responsible adult or properly contained. 

Yes, when we come home and we find our dog sitting on our front porch waiting for us to let her in we SHOULD be sweating bullets because we just dodged a huge one. The world is not a safe place for four-legged critters to be on their own in. Unfortunately, after that first dose of grace, sometimes our response is to be more lax, because nothing bad happened. If people are feeling guilty because they lost a dog to an accident, I really don't think what some stranger on the internet says is the driving force there. Feeling guilty is all well and good, but it is supposed to drive us on to make changes. 

My problem is blaming others when you fail to protect your dog. Because then you aren't feeling guilty, you are busy blaming. You are unlikely to make any changes in how you manage other dogs because you do not see your own part in what happened to your dog. That has to stop. Dog owners have to be more careful with their dogs. I am sure it isn't fun to see your dog get shot by a police officer, but it has to be even less fun to wait ten days while your dog is being quarantined and then have to go and have the dog euthanized because it seriously bit someone. And then hire a lawyer and go to court to determine how much in damages you will have to pay. And then have to scramble to buy more insurance because your HOI, dropped you like a hot potato. And, then, maybe you have to get rid of your other dogs because you simply can't get insurance with them, now that you have a serious dog bite on your record. 

Not everyone is out there thinking about all the ramifications of letting Fido run out the door. And if a harsh tone gets people to THINK then it is worth it. Cop kills dog, is not the worse scenario that loving dog owners may have to face. I cannot conceive of having to put a dog down because it bit someone. To me that is maybe one of the things I fear most. And so, I try to be ultra careful with how I keep them when I am not able to personally supervise. I wish more people would worry more about that, and there would be fewer incidents like this one and worse.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

It's also a PITA when you have slow down every time you drive past a certain house because the children are forever letting the dog dash out the door, and the dog isn't trained to come when called, and the dog is very small and hard to see, and likes to dart across the road, and also chases cars. Yup, this is real life. Would it be so hard to put up a gate somewhere in the house, so the dog couldn't have access to the door? Obviously training the dog and the children is out of the question, or it wouldn't be such a routine by now. And just because I know enough to slow down doesn't mean that everyone else does. Then again, I haven't seen that dog in about a month, so maybe the inevitable has happened? Animal lovers are very upset when they run over little critters, but there's not much you can do if a chipmunk darts under your wheels. You can't say the same for a domestic dog, who should have someone watching over it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Blanketback said:


> It's also a PITA when you have slow down every time you drive past a certain house because the children are forever letting the dog dash out the door, and the dog isn't trained to come when called, and the dog is very small and hard to see, and likes to dart across the road, and also chases cars. Yup, this is real life. Would it be so hard to put up a gate somewhere in the house, so the dog couldn't have access to the door? Obviously training the dog and the children is out of the question, or it wouldn't be such a routine by now. And just because I know enough to slow down doesn't mean that everyone else does. Then again, I haven't seen that dog in about a month, so maybe the inevitable has happened? Animal lovers are very upset when they run over little critters, but there's not much you can do if a chipmunk darts under your wheels. You can't say the same for a domestic dog, who should have someone watching over it.


Yes, these people. If their dog gets smooshed, well then it was an accident on their part, and fiendishness, carelessness, stupidity in the driver. Blame the driver, not the dog owner. 

If their dog is shot, sue the police officer. 

This ISN'T an accident folks. It is negligence. 

You know what would stop a lot of stupid lawsuits? I do. If a judge could review the case and then place judgements on both the plaintiff and the defendant. There would be fewer plaintiffs out there, if the judge came back with, "Your dog was off your property and out of your control, and therefore you are fined $250 for this first recorded offense. Case dismissed." When the burglar sues because he fell down and broke his leg in the unfinished home he was trying steal tools from, the judge could render his verdict : "You were trespassing in order to commit a crime. You must pay the court costs for yourself and the defendant, and $5000 to the defendant for his inconvenience. Case dismissed." At $.50/hour in the local prison, that should give the joker a good goal to work towards while he serves his sentence. 

Ah, if only it was the world according to Sue...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

So another dog was shot and killed in Chicago.

Chicago police shoot and kill family dog during chase | WGN-TV

My thought process is if your on foot chasing someone and you get to a yard where a dog is barking, wouldn't common sense be well if this dog is going for me then he would have gone for the person they were chasing? Anyways this is a conversation that I had with a police officer on FB

I shared the link...

Officers comment...What's hilarious is the family "awoke"from gunshots, police in their yard and their dog dead. Which means their dog was out all night.

My Comment...I don't agree that dogs should be left outside but it's not against the law. People do it everywhere and don't expect to wake up to a dead dog.

Officers Comment....Poop(insert bad word here)happens.

I did not respond, but this is the general attitude the police I know have, which really makes people dislike them more.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> So another dog was shot and killed in Chicago.
> 
> Chicago police shoot and kill family dog during chase | WGN-TV
> 
> ...


Cops have to do their job, but this is pretty disgusting, unless the perpetrator belonged to the household where the dog lived. It doesn't sound like that was the case. 

So what if the dog was outside. Some people have doggy doors. And some people keep a dog outside. How terribly sad. 

The investigation continues. 

Pet owners shouldn't wake up to their dog being shot if it is secure on their property.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> Cops have to do their job, but this is pretty disgusting, unless the perpetrator belonged to the household where the dog lived. It doesn't sound like that was the case.
> 
> So what if the dog was outside. Some people have doggy doors. And some people keep a dog outside. How terribly sad.
> 
> ...


No he didn't live there, but he was hiding under a nearby porch. It was light out so I don't know how they missed him not going in the yard. It's kinda sad that a criminal felt guilty and bad about it, enough so to go back and apologize and the police on sight didn't feel the need.


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