# Having 2 females if both are spayed still a problem?



## farnln (Nov 4, 2012)

I have read so much about sex on sex aggression in GSDs that I was ONLY considering a male pup since I already have a female (spayed).

I know that it is never guaranteed that 2 dogs will get along, but does it make a difference if both females are spayed? Do you still tend to get the aggression?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I understand you have a better chance of no issues with a male and female. We had three females and a male . Three females were spayed and intact male. Had no issues. I think it depends on the dogs personalities, management. I don't believe spaying will reduce aggression if there is any.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

My mixed female was spayed, and she HATED other female dogs.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I think it's more the individual dog than anything, it's all about the trigger


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## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

My females are both spayed and they hate each other.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

farnln said:


> I have read so much about sex on sex aggression in GSDs that I was ONLY considering a male pup since I already have a female (spayed).
> 
> I know that it is never guaranteed that 2 dogs will get along, but does it make a difference if both females are spayed? Do you still tend to get the aggression?


 
Studies have shown a higher instance of aggression in spayed females. Speaking from experience, my spayed female-of my recent 3-was the most likely to take offense to rude behavior in other dogs.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Although the problem of two females fighting should be taken seriously, I have seen these discussions too quickly turned one sided.

I have simultaneously had multiple female intact German Shepherds and multiple male intact German Shepherds and did not even know that female to female aggression could be a problem, I had no issues. This was prior to the days of home computers. The only thing ever talked about was possible male to male aggression back then.

I currently own three intact males and two intact females. The girls are young, but different ages and unrelated. From the way they play and act now, I highly suspect a future of crate and rotate as long as I own the both of them, but maybe not. I speculate based mainly on forum input coupled with two dominant females.

The main reason I posted today is to tilt the scales to be more fairly reflected where not everybody posting has owned two females that fought or hated each other. 

Let me suggest reading this thread which, IMO, presents a more balanced aspect:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-female-gsd-owners-can-2-live-together-3.html


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

It really does depend on the dog and how well you manage them.. And it's better getting a puppy versus an adult.

I know so many people that have multiple females living together without any major issues.. I myself had 3 and all were altered.. and did extremely well together..

So it is definitely do able..


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Although the problem of two females fighting should be taken seriously, I have seen these discussions too quickly turned one sided.
> 
> I have simultaneously had multiple female intact German Shepherds and multiple male intact German Shepherds and did not even know that female to female aggression could be a problem, I had no issues. This was prior to the days of home computers. The only thing ever talked about was possible male to male aggression back then.
> 
> ...


 
I do agree, Sabs bff was my black female and over the years I had other females, fosters and such. I did find that she handled it better if the other females were introduced as pups or youngsters.
I was simply replying to the spay question, and spayed females are more prone to aggression, not less.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I think what's difficult is that you won't know for sure if it will become a problem until it does. For me personally, I'm not going to take a chance. Who knows if _my_ two females will love each other forever or end up hating each other's guts? For that reason, I've decided that I will always have one of each rather two males or two females. I've only had two pairings so far, since for the first 19 years of owning GSDs we had one dog at a time. Dena and Keefer were thick as thieves, and Keefer and Halo are too. 

There's no guarantee that ANY two dogs will get along perfectly for life, but I think the safest, most likely to succeed pairing is a male and a female.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I had two spayed females for several years. One was dominant, the other submissive. Had the submissive one ever decide to challenge ms. dominant, I'd have a dead dog. I still had to manage them, not correct ms. submissive Kacie in front of the bully bitch Onyx, she thought her job was to keep Kacie herded, and controlled. 
Kacie recently passed away from cancer, and Onyx has mellowed(she still lives with two intact males, one is a young pup).

I said I will never do two females again


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

I've got a 3yr old spayed female and am planning on getting another pup in a year or two. As much as I want to get another female, I won't - way too much risk of jealousy-driven issues.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

I have 3 spayed females (not GSDs) w/ no issues. It depends on the individual dogs more than anything.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I have had multiple spayed females at the same time and never had an issue. Even with my slightly nasty female GSD. 

While I wish it was just because I am THAT GOOD an owner and trainer, I really think it's more to do with the individual dogs. I have known amazing dog people that have issues. People way more experienced than myself. So I know I am not the reason. 

The only true issue I had was between my first GSD(spayed female) and a neutered male GSD rescue I was fostering. Breaking up their first fight put me in the hospital. 

I have since fostered females and males and never had an issue. I am very careful in regards to posturing and signs of an issue and quickly and whole heartedly put the issue to rest in their minds. 

But I will probably not ever have 2 female GSD again. I don't want to take the risk. I won't live a life of crate and rotate. It's just not my style or desire.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

gsdsar said:


> I have had multiple spayed females at the same time and never had an issue. Even with my slightly nasty female GSD.
> 
> While I wish it was just because I am THAT GOOD an owner and trainer, I really think it's more to do with the individual dogs. I have known amazing dog people that have issues. People way more experienced than myself. So I know I am not the reason.
> 
> ...


The bolded is what I did/do. My pup is now testing the waters, and he needs to be kept in check. I don't want to do the crate/rotate either, my dogs are my companions, none of them are crated more than necessary. I like them to live with the freedom earned, and only the pup is crated regularly, until he earns that right.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Sabis mom said:


> I do agree, Sabs bff was my black female and over the years I had other females, fosters and such. I did find that she handled it better if the other females were introduced as pups or youngsters.
> * I was simply replying to the spay question, and spayed females are more prone to aggression, not less.*


I think this information is important in identifying whether there is a greater likelihood or not for problems. Most spaying seems to be done either pediatric (less than six months), early (6-12 months), done when most growth is completed (12-24) months or else done in adulthood(2 yrs+). I would be curious if the various ages have a greater impact on female to female fighting, or even female dog aggression, like it does on so many other aspects.



Cassidy's Mom said:


> *I think what's difficult is that you won't know for sure if it will become a problem until it does.* For me personally, I'm not going to take a chance. Who knows if _my_ two females will love each other forever or end up hating each other's guts? For that reason, I've decided that I will always have one of each rather two males or two females. I've only had two pairings so far, since for the first 19 years of owning GSDs we had one dog at a time. Dena and Keefer were thick as thieves, and Keefer and Halo are too.
> 
> There's no guarantee that ANY two dogs will get along perfectly for life, but I think the safest, most likely to succeed pairing is a male and a female.


I was told by one breeder to be careful of fights just before a female comes into heat. Another breeder told me that this can be a factor in spayed females as well as the ovaries are not the only source of hormones and spayed females can exhibit some tendencies of hormonal work without being detectable to us and can also be a trigger for female to female fighting.



onyx'girl said:


> I had two spayed females for several years. One was dominant, the other submissive. Had the submissive one ever decide to challenge ms. dominant, I'd have a dead dog. * I still had to manage them, not correct ms. submissive Kacie in front of the bully bitch Onyx, she thought her job was to keep Kacie herded, and controlled. *
> Kacie recently passed away from cancer, and Onyx has mellowed(she still lives with two intact males, one is a young pup).
> 
> I said I will never do two females again


This makes me wonder whether there are other factors such as these that maybe another owner would not / did not detect which contributed to the problem. Thank you for the specifics. I would bet that others would find there were other such catalysts involved prior to female to female fighting. I am not saying this is the case every time, but it makes me wonder.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

My take on FvF is pretty bias, Boxer's the Clown Prince of the Dog World are "notorious" for FvF aggression! Pretty much stated up front.. Boxer rescue policy! If you already have a female Boxer in the home..uh sorry, the answer is "NO!"

And the spay thing, no direct first-hand experience! But not something I would hang my hat on! Closest I got was with my males both Dominate and both fixed. Being fixed made "zero" difference to my GSD!!

So being fixed is "not" something I would hang my hat on! I think the question being asked is more along the longs of:











I try and make things pretty cut and dry for folks...how was this??


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

I have two spayed females and an intact female. 
American pit bull terrier - 14yo spayed sometime before she was two - rescue dog - true alpha type, easy going with her pack, great with puppies, can be dog aggressive given the right circumstances
Border collie mutt - almost 7yo, spayed at 1.5yo pushy bossy temperament, my little witch
GSD - 16 months, intact, has gone through two heat cycles, spoiled rotten brat, quite submissive but very rude lol
I have zero issues in my house. My girls get along famously. I do not allow ANY aggression, or even thoughts of aggression. They know this and so they get along. 
My gsd I had as a kid was intact until she was five and she was horribly dog aggressive her whole life, before and after the spay. 
The pit bull has raised multiple puppies during her life (not hers, but pups I've raised), she is amazing and my rock. The border collie mutt has to be watched, she is a resource guarder (well, she'd like to be). She likes to be rude and she'd love to boss the others all the time. The gsd is still a pup, but she's a wild little thing with few regards to the concept of boundaries. She has to be reminded to mind her seniors, not body slam the geriatric pit bull. Not steal toys and for the others to not start a fight over the puppy trying to steal toys. These dogs have the potential to hate each other. All are dominant, confident, bold dogs. No one is submissive to another. They get along because it is my rules and they respect that.
Imo it takes a either the right pairing of dogs or a special type of management to be able to have females totally comfortable with each other. I board and foster dogs and my girls are fine with any other dog, so long as I have that dog under control.


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## Athena'sMom (Jan 9, 2014)

My two intact females are still very young but both females get along and play just fine. Now Athena is only 2 1/2 and Nemesis is only 14 months but both girls went into their heat cycles together and no aggression what so ever. My altered male, Sinister and Nemesis are the ones I have to watch like a hawk. They tend to go from 0-60 during play. It depends on temperament of the dogs. Some dogs compliment each others personalities and some mix like oil and water. Owning multiple dogs is always a challenge the key is training and supervision. I never leave my 3 dogs alone together.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have had both scenerios - females who are great together - had 3 in the house, 1 spayed, 2 intact - twice I had small fights.....young intact female grabbed older female, once while she was bred.....we had a major "discussion" over that, the bred female had been a kennel dog all her life before I got her, was totally sweet and did not deserve the younger one's attempt to show dominance...they lived together for a few years after with no incidents....all three would ride loose in the back seat of a Hyundai Tiburon amicably (and I would certainly now NOT encourage anyone to do THAT!) . Then I had Basha, who also got along with everyone, and even would sleep at my feet on the couch curled up with Furious, both of them in heat! 

But my other female is from a male who was known to be dog aggressive, and she is female aggressive....absolutely fine with babies and young dogs...but I don't know nor will I try to know, to find what the age point is on the youngster that they cannot be loose together. Now I have a nearly 12 year old, spayed, and a 10 month old....they are neutral when the young one is loose with the older in a wire crate - but I don't risk anything by having them both loose....they were fine when the young one was 8 weeks to 4 months....but now, I am just not taking risks.....

Never had 2 males together, but the three males I have had were always fine with any and all females....Komet is cool with anybody, male, female, small dogs even....

It really depends on the individual - and if you have two of the same sex, you have to be vigilant to their behavior, and be prepared to live with rotating them if they do not get along.

Lee


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

wolfstraum said:


> I have had both scenerios - females who are great together - had 3 in the house, 1 spayed, 2 intact - twice I had small fights.....young intact female grabbed older female, once while she was bred.....we had a major "discussion" over that, the bred female had been a kennel dog all her life before I got her, was totally sweet and did not deserve the younger one's attempt to show dominance...they lived together for a few years after with no incidents....all three would ride loose in the back seat of a Hyundai Tiburon amicably (and I would certainly now NOT encourage anyone to do THAT!) . Then I had Basha, who also got along with everyone, and even would sleep at my feet on the couch curled up with Furious, both of them in heat!
> 
> But my other female is from a male who was known to be dog aggressive, and she is female aggressive....absolutely fine with babies and young dogs...but I don't know nor will I try to know, to find what the age point is on the youngster that they cannot be loose together. Now I have a nearly 12 year old, spayed, and a 10 month old....they are neutral when the young one is loose with the older in a wire crate - but I don't risk anything by having them both loose....*they were fine when the young one was 8 weeks to 4 months*....but now, I am just not taking risks.....
> 
> ...


Was there a reason you separated at this age or just circumstance?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Preventative caution.....nothing happened....there was a period of time the younger stayed with a friend while I raised a litter and I am just cautious to a fault to prevent a dog fight....a fiesty 70 pound 9 month old and a nearly 12 year old who is dominant and has been shown to be female aggressive just don't make me feel safe.

Lee


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Get a male to limit your risks.
My Malinois (in the past)was fine with other dogs until after her spay surgery. She became full blown dog aggressive.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> Get a male to limit your risks.
> My Malinois (in the past)was fine with other dogs until after her spay surgery. She became full blown dog aggressive.


How old was she when you got her spayed?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> It really depends on the individual - and if you have two of the same sex, you have to be vigilant to their behavior, and be prepared to live with rotating them if they do not get along.
> 
> Lee



Agree

I have multiple intact females that get along, some that don't, and have had a spayed female that did not get along with any female. 

Depends on the dog and the dynamics


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> How old was she when you got her spayed?


1.5 years old. I know that some will think it has to do with puberty but the change was too obvious and the reason not to full spay Deja if I ever decide to spay her.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> 1.5 years old. I know that some will think it has to do with puberty but the change was too obvious and the reason not to full spay Deja if I ever decide to spay her.


I have only owned intact females. Some had some dog aggression but nothing over the top. Is dog aggression linked to spaying before maturity or spaying in general? 

I agree with you. If I ever get my females done, I will leave the ovaries intact.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

to the OP:
Hasn't been for me for the last two pair or the current pair. (first two pair were spayed; current pair one spayed because of false pregnancies, one intact.)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have a bunch of girls. 

I can usually leave litter sisters together for about 15 months or so. Sometimes longer. Depends. I can leave a female pup in with her dam for a year or more -- right now I have two female pups that are 17 months old together with their dam, no problems. I think that is because Jenna is a super bitch and naturally dominant, meaning she rarely pushes others around, rarely fights with anyone, but just carries herself like the Queen of Sheba, and everyone just accepts that she is. She is 10, her youngsters are not challenging her. The pups seem to be different in personality. One who seems more confident is more interested in me than food. The less confident is the opposite. She starts eating immediately. The other goes in and eats when she feels like it, but neither are food or toy or even concerned with my giving attention to the others. So far no issues.

On the other hand, I had Babsy in with Hepsi, and they were fine together until they weren't. Hepsi is 3 and Babs was 9 at the time. They had a fight with damage, not serious, but they are not left together anymore. Hepsi is in with Cujo. Usually that is easier to keep everyone happy.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I have two spayed females, one is a GSD(she is 4) and the other is almost 11(Samoyed mix). They are the top dogs in the house followed by all the boys. They have gotten into it a couple times, but nothing causing blood shed. I watch them closely after they have a spat and what I observe is that the GSD almost feels bad and I catch her kissing the senior dog. They are both respected and don't need to fight, they are both very sure of themselves. I feel thd senior dog has been around a long time and she deserves the respect from all of them, I make sure she gets it. She is slowly letting the female GSD take over more and more as she gets older. She doesn't get involved unless it's absolutely necessary. If the boys are really bring disrespectful both girls let them know it. They work together. The GSD also watches out for the older female. If the younger pups are getting to rough, the GSD gets them to back off. All n all they get along very well, all of them do.


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