# When will he calm down around other dogs?



## Thorny (Nov 4, 2012)

Gunnar is 18 months old now. Well behaved, well socialized in most situations. He will heel off leash in public, run by my side for miles off leash, down and stay in distracting situations, etc.....BUT he won't quiet down either verbally or physically when there are other dogs around.

Example: nice easy ride in the car, he's looking out the window or laying down in the back until we get close to a dog park, then he slowly winds up and by the time I'm parking the car he's whining and squeaking and barking and jumping all over the in the back. When I take him out of the car, he's straining against the leash like he's got no manners at all.

Example: standing on the sideline of my daughters soccer game. He will lay at my feet or sniff around a bit, but if there is another dog on the sideline he will whine, bark, pull on the leash, and get himself all worked up.

He's always been like this, since he was a puppy at puppy training class. He'd bark for the whole 2 hour class as a 12 week old. As an older pup he was a bit better. But certainly not the calm quiet dog that he is at home depot or at home.

Is there an age when this behavior calms down? Is there a training technique that I can use to inhibit the barking/whining/pulling on leash (as a combo behavior as I've been fairly successful in inhibiting any single behavior in other circumstances.

I'm open to any and all suggestions. Thanks.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

HOW did you socialize him to other dogs . 

Addressing this shortly , adding more to, on http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ethinking-popular-early-socialization-20.html

over excited . No more dog parks or other dog play . He needs to be re-focused and mature . 

There was a similar concern with a dog that was in SAR training that had to be washed out (temporarily?) because the dog lost all focus to go play with other dogs .


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

If he's 18 months old and still doing this, I don't think he will grow out of it. Have you tried re-directing his attention, maybe to a tug, or whatever it is he likes? 

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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

imho, that is a trait that will never change.


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## Thorny (Nov 4, 2012)

Redirecting has not been effective. His favorite toys at home are ignored after 1-2 uses when in the presence of other dogs. Raw meat, tasty treats, praise, etc. are worthless as well. The only time he will calm down with another dog is after about 3-4 hours of them being together. Then I become exciting to him again.

Perhaps he will never be calm around other dogs, which is fine, but I just want to have the appropriate expectation for his behavior. I appreciate that he thinks for himself, it's what allows him to guard the property well on his own and problem solve without my input.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Thorny said:


> Redirecting has not been effective. His favorite toys at home are ignored after 1-2 uses when in the presence of other dogs. Raw meat, tasty treats, praise, etc. are worthless as well. The only time he will calm down with another dog is after about 3-4 hours of them being together. Then I become exciting to him again.
> 
> Perhaps he will never be calm around other dogs, which is fine, but I just want to have the appropriate expectation for his behavior. I appreciate that he thinks for himself, it's what allows him to guard the property well on his own and problem solve without my input.


Sometimes bribing won't work. Sometimes you have to poke, prod or tap a dog to break his focus and then..."move along dog nothing to see here".

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/431289-new-dog-very-challenging.html

A link in post 8 should be helpful. But it sounds like you have a particular problem that you have allowed your dog to practice, And your making a justification for his "bad behaviour?"



Thorny said:


> I appreciate that he thinks for himself, it's what allows him to guard the property well on his own and problem solve without my input.


My dogs as can numerous others guard property and problem solve "without" annoying PIA behaviour. I flat would not tolerate that kind of crap and they know it! Your dog has trained you to accept his behaviour!

Sounds like you got stuck on this problem? No harm in seeking out a professional for help if it's required.

You have to "outthink" your dog.


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## Thorny (Nov 4, 2012)

That's a fair assessment. My breeder has also been my trainer and they have suggested letting him grow up and out of it more.

True that I do tolerate it to a degree, but prior to that I tried many training techniques to break the habit. I won't go into all of them here and start a debate on my methods as some here disagree with some of my philosophy on that.

The bottom line is that I introduced him to situations that triggered this when he was young, and created the issue. Or he was born with it and it was going to manifest eventually no matter what. Either way I hear some of you say he won't change. Others say I can retrain him. Based on treats and toys to redirect not being effective what ate some other training techniques or quelling eh whining and barking at other dogs?


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

My trainer has me work through it (actually in the process of it right now) if she is screaming I calmly lift her off her feet with her prong collar and slowly lower her, we work through it and she is NOT allowed to play, it's all OB, I do notice a quicker recovery time (to her becoming quiet) each time we practice. 


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## Thorny (Nov 4, 2012)

Liz&Anna said:


> My trainer has me work through it (actually in the process of it right now) if she is screaming I calmly lift her off her feet with her prong collar and slowly lower her, we work through it and she is NOT allowed to play, it's all OB, I do notice a quicker recovery time (to her becoming quiet) each time we practice.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Just lifting the front end of the dog, or the whole dog? I don't think I can lift this guy by his leash, but I can apply the prongs if that is a reasonable strategy.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

We had a dog in class that would bark her head off when she saw the other dogs. It took approx 5 months but she could actually stand 4 or 5 feet next to another dog without barking. Which was good enough for her owner. Keep training to ignore other dogs. I believe training can help.


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

The front end- it sounds awful I know but you basically cut off air supply to calm the dog, you CAN'T pop the leash or the collar because that only stimulates and excites or adds to anxiety and it's super super important that you remain as calm as possible (you lead by example) gotta wait your dog out 








Trust me I was the last person who ever thought it was possible to have my dog around other dogs, it also helps if the other dog is calm as well 

It's best to work with a trainer, where are you from? 







(My girl is in each pic) 










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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Well, you taught him to care about other dogs more than yourself, and you're reinforcing it regularly. 

It's not going to change unless your criteria and expectations change.


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## Espa (Apr 22, 2014)

It sounds like you have a wonderful dog, and a wonderful family dog. Some dogs are just dog aggressive, it's more prevalent in some breeds than others. You didn't do anything wrong, just the way the dog is.


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## flyfisher22 (Feb 28, 2011)

Liz&Anna said:


> My trainer has me work through it (actually in the process of it right now) if she is screaming I calmly lift her off her feet with her prong collar and slowly lower her, we work through it and she is NOT allowed to play, it's all OB, I do notice a quicker recovery time (to her becoming quiet) each time we practice.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sounds like a technique generally done with a dominant dog collar, I have never seen that done with a prong.

http://leerburg.com/746.htm


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

flyfisher22 said:


> Sounds like a technique generally done with a dominant dog collar, I have never seen that done with a prong.
> 
> http://leerburg.com/746.htm


Exactly (same thing) just a different tool


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## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

Espa said:


> It sounds like you have a wonderful dog, and a wonderful family dog. Some dogs are just dog aggressive, it's more prevalent in some breeds than others. You didn't do anything wrong, just the way the dog is.


That is NOT just the way he is, he doesn't have to be like that- you just may need a different approach, do not give up on training him.....


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## Thorny (Nov 4, 2012)

Thanks All. When He was a little pup we'd go to training and he'd bark the WHOLE time, for over 2 hours. I had to stand 50 feet back from the circle and work at that distance to get him to settle down a bit. Now he's able to go to training class and not bark, but he'll whine some times. He can be left in the middle of the circle of dogs like the pictures above. He can down and stay in a line with the other dogs and he can down and stay with activity around him. But this is all at training class. 

Now, out at the soccer field it's a different story, and at the dog park in the parking lot before entering the fence. Once inside the dog park, all the barking goes away. 

I have not given up on training him. But I am looking for training techniques, which I've gotten some here. And I'm wondering if age will help him. My old lab didn't calm down until she was 4, my parent lab when she was 7. I thought maybe there was a golden age when a WL Sheppard starts to chill out a bit. (At least we are done with the land shark phase, right?)


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Age will probably not help. Just training.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Voice is given to all creatures to communicate. Ask yourself: why, actually, he barks? You say, he stops barking only he is inside the park with other dogs free to run together. If that is so, his satisfaction comes together with free movement and communication with other dogs. He barks because he cannot get to the dog he wants to make a close contact with. The leash which holds him makes his wish stronger. And you, probably, try to calm him down - thus telling him that everything he does and feels should be that way - instead of ignoring him. By barking he tries to minimize his frustration that he cannot get what he wants immediately, and he got used to relieve himself by barking. 
You should work on it by training him to be patient. It would be useless to start with dogs, but that will be your final target. Start with asking him to remain in sitting position for 10 minutes before he gets to his meal. You can keep his plate on the table first, then move it on the floor, but he must start eating only when you tell him. Another exercise - ask him to remain in sitting position for 10-15 minutes in the open field while you walk around, come back to him and reward. You can imagine yourself something to exercise his patience. With dogs - he must know that he will get what he wants if he is patient enough. When you come to the park, ask him to sit and wait 50 yards away from others, let other dogs approach him first, ask him to heel off leash, and come to other people slowly. He must sit when he is told to sit, he must heel when he is told to heel, and *that fact that he barks is not that important as long as he obeys your commands off leash*. His urge to bark should diminish with time and age, just don't pay any attention to it yourself.


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## Thorny (Nov 4, 2012)

David Taggart said:


> Voice is given to all creatures to communicate. Ask yourself: why, actually, he barks? You say, he stops barking only he is inside the park with other dogs free to run together. If that is so, his satisfaction comes together with free movement and communication with other dogs. He barks because he cannot get to the dog he wants to make a close contact with. The leash which holds him makes his wish stronger. And you, probably, try to calm him down - thus telling him that everything he does and feels should be that way - instead of ignoring him. By barking he tries to minimize his frustration that he cannot get what he wants immediately, and he got used to relieve himself by barking.
> You should work on it by training him to be patient. It would be useless to start with dogs, but that will be your final target. Start with asking him to remain in sitting position for 10 minutes before he gets to his meal. You can keep his plate on the table first, then move it on the floor, but he must start eating only when you tell him. Another exercise - ask him to remain in sitting position for 10-15 minutes in the open field while you walk around, come back to him and reward. You can imagine yourself something to exercise his patience. With dogs - he must know that he will get what he wants if he is patient enough. When you come to the park, ask him to sit and wait 50 yards away from others, let other dogs approach him first, ask him to heel off leash, and come to other people slowly. He must sit when he is told to sit, he must heel when he is told to heel, and *that fact that he barks is not that important as long as he obeys your commands off leash*. His urge to bark should diminish with time and age, just don't pay any attention to it yourself.



Thanks David. That makes perfect sense and I believe its accurate regarding what he's feeling.

He barks to the neighbor dogs too when he wants them to come play with him. Their house is 100 yards away and we share a fence line, and will call to his friends when he wants attention. Perhaps the dog park and other dogs at the soccer field are a similar situation in his mind.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> Voice is given to all creatures to communicate. Ask yourself: why, actually, he barks? You say, he stops barking only he is inside the park with other dogs free to run together. If that is so, his satisfaction comes together with free movement and communication with other dogs. He barks because he cannot get to the dog he wants to make a close contact with. The leash which holds him makes his wish stronger. And you, probably, try to calm him down - thus telling him that everything he does and feels should be that way - instead of ignoring him. By barking he tries to minimize his frustration that he cannot get what he wants immediately, and he got used to relieve himself by barking.
> You should work on it by training him to be patient. It would be useless to start with dogs, but that will be your final target. Start with asking him to remain in sitting position for 10 minutes before he gets to his meal. You can keep his plate on the table first, then move it on the floor, but he must start eating only when you tell him. Another exercise - ask him to remain in sitting position for 10-15 minutes in the open field while you walk around, come back to him and reward. You can imagine yourself something to exercise his patience. With dogs - he must know that he will get what he wants if he is patient enough. When you come to the park, ask him to sit and wait 50 yards away from others, let other dogs approach him first, ask him to heel off leash, and come to other people slowly. He must sit when he is told to sit, he must heel when he is told to heel, and *that fact that he barks is not that important as long as he obeys your commands off leash*. His urge to bark should diminish with time and age, just don't pay any attention to it yourself.



Good stuff..... me like.


SuperG


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