# Okay guys I'm getting worried.



## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

Okay so I'm feeding raw to my Elios. 
And recently I've been getting worried 
about him getting MRSA and ecolli and 
what nots.. Has anyone had any bad things
Happen with raw feeding? 

I love the fact that he doesn't potty as much
And that his teeth are so clean.. So I don't really
Want to switch back to kibble..
What do you guys think?


----------



## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Dogs stomachs are designed to digest raw food at a much quicker rate, so the food doesn't sit in there for a long time like it would a humans, so they won't get sick from it.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Never had a problem. I think restaurant food is more dangerous.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Zero problems here.


----------



## E.Hatch (Sep 24, 2013)

No problems here either 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

No problems here ...knocking on wood.

SuperG


----------



## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

I hear so much bad about it that it's driving me bonkers. 
I love the benifits and how his teeth are so clean and his potty is so small and he seems to be doing good. 
I wish the whole coat being shinny and less shedding would work on him though hahah but I am just worried with all the people tellin me it's bad. 
I don't have enought money to buy like a hundred dollars a month for a really good kibble that still had fillers.. I just don't have that money.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

If his coat is not shiny and he is shedding a lot, there could be a nutritional deficiency. What exactly are you feeding?


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

shilorio said:


> I hear so much bad about it that it's driving me bonkers.


Who's telling you all of this bad stuff? Vets? People that have never done a raw diet?


----------



## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

My vet tech teachers, one vet. Friends in my vet tech class .


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

shilorio said:


> My vet tech teachers, one vet. Friends in my vet tech class .


No surprise there. Let me guess: they are recommending Science Diet? :wild:


Look, you do whatever you think is best for your dog. 
Choose that, whether it be raw or kibble, and don't worry anymore.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I switched to raw and have yet to see issues.


----------



## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

(I've been following a diet that a friend of mine feeds her dogs, she's been doing this for years and years) 
He eats a raw egg a week
He eats a kidney and liver meal a month. 
He eats about 50% chicken 
And 50% hearts, pig neck, turkey neck. 
I usually mix it up and get pig feet and noses and things. 
I usually freeze the meats for 2-5 days sometimes more before feeding. 
I give him a hip suppliment occasionally. 
I was thinking of starting to give fish oil and vatamine e oil maybe.. Maybe some veggie or pumkin.. I want him to have the absolute best he can have and I'm not sure what the best is I guess.
Difficientcy? Could he have a parasite or somthing??


----------



## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> No surprise there. Let me guess: they are recommending Science Diet? :wild:
> 
> 
> Look, you do whatever you think is best for your dog.
> Choose that, whether it be raw or kibble, and don't worry anymore.


Hahah I like the raw, I'm just a little worried about his coat and if I'm feeding the right way now.. Maybe I need to change it a bit?


----------



## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

people get so twisted up about germs and BacT. They exist, get over it  Staph aureus is normal part of YOU! always has been, always will be. It's on your skin every day, it's in your nose, everywhere. All sorts of strains. They are just one part of what inhabits you and every animal and object on earth. You have 10X's more cells in you that are NOT you than are. You are 10x's more bacteria and viruses than you are human, get used to it.

your body and your dog's are intelligent enough to live with these things every single day of life. When we treat our bodies like poorly, then things start to happen. When we overcome the natural order of things by weakening an immune system or introducing things into the body thru surgery in a way our body wouldn't normally encounter them, there is great potential for bad things to happen. Things we live with everyday like staph are then able to cause infections and thanks to our ubiquitous and excessive use of antibiotics we now have very little to fight these infections when they do happen.

With the amount of pet food recalls recently I'm more afraid of what comes in a bag than what I pick up from my butcher.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I have been feeding raw to my dogs for over 15 years.

In that time I had fed over 2 TONS - that's four THOUSAND POUNDS of raw meat and bones to my dogs.

Dogs fed raw are/were:

Neke, GSD - switched to raw at about 3 years of age, lived to 14.5 years old
Tessa, GSD - switch at about 2 yrs, lived to 10
Remi, GSD - switched at about 1 yr old, lived to 11
Riggs, switched at just under a year, lived to 12
Tazer, Cocker Spaniel - switched around a yr, lived to 14 (managed his epilepsy with diet alone)

Sadie, Husky - switched when adopted at estimated 14 yrs of age, lived about a year - here's a picture comparison of her when adopted and after just 3 months on raw)











Current pack:

Mauser, GSD - switched at 8 weeks of age, currently going on 6
Kaynya, Chinese Crested - switched at 8 weeks of age, going on 7

Spike, Fuego, Clark, Wasabi and Puppa-T - all Chinese Cresteds weaned DIRECTLY to raw (never tasted kibble) - ranging in age from 5 yrs to 6 months


So, in all that time [15 years] having fed all that food [4,000 pounds] to all those dogs [14 of mine and numerous foster dogs] I have NEVER had a problem.

When people that have the same experience as myself (or more) start talking about all the bad things that have happened to their dogs - THEN maybe I'll think twice about feeding raw.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

shilorio said:


> I wish the whole coat being shinny and less shedding would work on him though


How long as he been raw fed?


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

shilorio said:


> (I've been following a diet that a friend of mine feeds her dogs, she's been doing this for years and years)
> He eats a raw egg a week
> He eats a kidney and liver meal a month.
> He eats about 50% chicken
> ...


I would suggest a few tweaks to his diet.

He needs more organ meat. Feeding it just once a month is not a good idea. Think of it this way - you want to try an imitate a prey item for him to eat every day.

I feed and recommend the following:

50% Muscle Meat (any meat without bones)
45% Raw Meaty Bones (any meat with EDIBLE bones)
5% organ meat (liver at least 3 times a week)

That is what my dogs get every day. The amounts vary based on what each dog needs but the percentages stay the same.

I feed 3-5 different protein sources every week. Chicken, turkey, duck, pork, beef, lamb, fish are the staples around here. I get venison sometimes during hunting season. I also raise rats and my dogs eat those.

Dogs do not need vegetables as part of their diet. It won't hurt to give them some but it's just going to be filler. Unless you preprocess the veggies your dog won't get any nutrients from them.

It wouldn't hurt to add fish BODY oil (not liver oil) to the diet - especially if you aren't feeding much fish.


----------



## Flutter (Aug 2, 2013)

There are issues with feeding raw. My dog eats raw food. That being said, I work at a vet clinic and we typically have about 2 cases per month of raw fed dogs with severe issues, typically salmonella. When researching raw all I read about was how dogs don't have issues with the meat etc. The vets are telling you bad things because they want to sell you kibble, etc. 

Raw does have issues. It can cause problems. It does cause problems. These problems IME aren't all that rare. Dogs do get sick from raw. Feeding raw is so much better for my dog than kibble because of his issues. We've helped other people transition their dogs to raw. You just have to weigh the pros and cons. For us, the risk is worth it  I just think it's important that we acknowledge that the risk is there however in the vast majority of cases the benefits outweigh the risks.


----------



## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I have been feeding both raw and kibble forever and have had no issues to e.coli, I do give them a pro-biotic which helps the gut stay healthy.

I used to combine the raw and kibble, now for digestion reasons I separate the 2, give kibble in the morning then about 11 to 12 hours later give only raw (usually bit of muscle meat, organ and a small amount of bone).


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Flutter said:


> There are issues with feeding raw. My dog eats raw food. That being said, I work at a vet clinic and we typically have about 2 cases per month of raw fed dogs with severe issues, typically salmonella. When researching raw all I read about was how dogs don't have issues with the meat etc. The vets are telling you bad things because they want to sell you kibble, etc.
> 
> Raw does have issues. It can cause problems. It does cause problems. These problems IME aren't all that rare. Dogs do get sick from raw. Feeding raw is so much better for my dog than kibble because of his issues. We've helped other people transition their dogs to raw. You just have to weigh the pros and cons. For us, the risk is worth it  I just think it's important that we acknowledge that the risk is there however in the vast majority of cases the benefits outweigh the risks.


I would be interested in knowing what, and how, these people are feeding. 
Some internet sites suggest that feeding dogs expired meat is OK. I would be afraid to feed that, because the longer meat lies around, the more the bacteria in it multiply. 
Perhaps these people are getting it from not so great sources. Perhaps they are not storing the meat properly. Who knows?

Because there is so much that can vary, it is tough to figure out why some dogs get salmonella or have problems. Would be great to know.


----------



## Flutter (Aug 2, 2013)

Unfortunately I don't know the finer details. It would be nice to know them to see if there are any connections. Breeds are all over the place and none have been elderly or young.


----------



## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I would suggest a few tweaks to his diet.
> 
> He needs more organ meat. Feeding it just once a month is not a good idea. Think of it this way - you want to try an imitate a prey item for him to eat every day.
> 
> ...


So for a 70 pound shepherd what would be an idea exact diet? 
(Meaning: two chicken legs, one pig heart, ect ect...)


----------



## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

you are way over thinking it. just eye it. you dont need to weigh anything or ask how many pieces. my chicken quarter could be huge compared to yours. 

50% mm is like a pound of heart/gizzards.
45% rmb is like 1lb chicken quarter
5% offal is just one or two pieces of whatever you choose as organ meat. 

give an egg here and there. give some chicken feet here and there. it doesnt have to be exact every day. humans dont get the exact nutrients every day. 

i'd start out slow with liver. its rich and can give the dog diarrhea if given too much.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

15 years, many many dogs, weaned 6 litters to raw. My dogs also eat field mice, occasional bunny they catch, animal poop (talk about a direct source for salmonella and e-coli). 

Lauri's site : Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch can be very helpful for people.


----------



## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

If you're truly worried about bacteria feed the raw frozen. By the time the meat would be warm enough for the bacteria to be active it will have already hit the stomach acid and been annihilated anyways. 

Also, MRSA isn't really such a big deal in meat. MRSA is a strain of Staph which usually lives on your skin and typically takes advantage when normal fauna (good bacteria) have been eliminated. So unless your dipping your raw in hand sanitizer first, I wouldn't be too concerned over MRSA.

As for ingesting parasites, the biggest worry for me has always been trichinosis which is typically found in pork. Again, freeze the meat before thawing and the lil buggers die. Or, avoid feeding pork products. Obviously keep up with a normal worming regimen and the typical intestinal parasites become a non-issue. 

Hope this helps put your mind at ease.


----------



## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

Thank you guys a lot! This really helped me calm down a bunch !


----------



## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

MRSA, MRSI, MRSE are all normal flora on the skin, on your pets. The issue is if they get involved in a wound somehow, they often cause a lot of trouble. People panic hearing about these due to the few types of antibiotics that you can use against them. They're very strong and only a few things that can get rid of the infection. Which leaves people worried if somehow what few antibiotics that can actually destroy the infection end up getting added into the resistance. It is why you always should do antibiotics properly and to the end. I got some for a suspected tooth abscess on myself a few months ago. Even if it turned out to be just inflammation, I still finished them because I started them. -shrugs-

There is going to be more bacteria in the feces that the dog has, that is a given. There is bacteria on raw foods, on the surfaces of your house, etc. Whether or not it actually is pathogenic is another story. E.Coli is another one of those that can be commonly found in your natural flora. Salmonella is not, but usually their systems are stronger than ours. The big worry honestly about bacteria and raw is the humans handling the stuff on the other end or the stuff beforehand if not using proper techniques.  People who do not actually know about raw feeding will usually have the same kind of ideas involved.

And just to say it, it isn't just because vets want to sell you kibble that many of them speak out against raw. It's the same reason that your pet is recommended to be rabies vaccinated and dewormed regularly. They have a part just like human doctors in keeping the general public safe from potential hazards, such as the rabies virus and various parasites that tend to like to crawl under our skin rather than find our intestines as we aren't their normal host species.  So just a little food for thought.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

lhczth said:


> My dogs also eat field mice, occasional bunny they catch, animal poop (talk about a direct source for salmonella and e-coli).


Back when we had chickens I used to refer to them as the dogs' Pez Dispensers. The dogs would follow the chooks around the field, waiting for them to tip up their rear end to poop so they could dash in and slurp it up!!



Talk about Salmonella exposure!!!

They did this day in and day out, for several years and never got sick!


----------

