# You give all of this advice but is your dog.....



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you give all of this advice concerning dogs
but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?
can people visit your home without your dog
being reactive? can you walk your dog off leash
in a crowd or in center city? will your dog
follow his commands when in the dog park?
is your dog reactive around other animals??


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Personally, I think we all have areas that we give advice based on our experiences and that none of claim to be perfect or have the perfect dog.....well, except you of course!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Curious as to how you came up with your list? I would never walk my dog off leash in a city center, period. Dogs are creatures and none of them are 100% infallible.

I think sometimes people give the best advice because their dogs are not perfect and they have been through those same struggles.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> you give all of this advice concerning dogs
> but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?


Well trained in what? 
Manners? Yes
Obedience for competition? Work in Progress
Agility? When she wants to be



doggiedad said:


> can people visit your home without your dog
> being reactive?


Yes



doggiedad said:


> can you walk your dog off leash
> in a crowd or in center city?


Why would I do this and what would it prove?



doggiedad said:


> will your dog
> follow his commands when in the dog park?


I don't go to a dog park. Will she follow my commands when around other dogs? Yes. Do I let her off leash? No.




doggiedad said:


> is your dog reactive around other animals??


Yes. She isn't to fond of other dogs in her face. What does this prove?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I absolutely agree with Justine. I couldn't give advice to anyone with a dog that is dog reactive without having that experience. If I can't relate and tell someone what has worked for me then I'm just talking without a clue.

I couldn't give an opinion on compulsion vs. positive training without having the experience I have with Jax.

I think our failing make us work to find a solution and that makes us more knowledgeable.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

*Lessons lived & learned, can *most often*...harvest the best, practical advice.*
JMO


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> I absolutely agree with Justine. I couldn't give advice to anyone with a dog that is dog reactive without having that experience. If I can't relate and tell someone what has worked for me then I'm just talking without a clue.
> 
> I couldn't give an opinion on compulsion vs. positive training without having the experience I have with Jax.
> 
> *I think our failing makes us work to find a solution and that makes us more knowledgeable.*


:thumbup:


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

doggiedad said:


> you give all of this advice concerning dogs
> but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?
> can people visit your home without your dog
> being reactive? can you walk your dog off leash
> ...


-Well trained and highly socialized- yes
-He does bark a lot (and can sound really awful) when people approach the door, but as soon as I welcome them in, he just wants to smell them and bring them toys. 
-Walk in a city off leash? i'd rather not try. I saw many dog owners doing this in Paris and the dogs were exceptionally well behaved- many would run up to the next corner and stop, waiting for their owners. We do walk off leash in other areas with distractions and he is very well behaved.
-Absolutely follows commands in the dog park. We've been going his whole life and never had a problem leaving, calling him, etc. I can't believe the people I see chasing their dogs around to leave.
-He can be reactive if another dog is annoying him or tries to steal a toy, but otherwise good with dogs.


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## gsd_newbie (Aug 23, 2011)

No matter how well obey someone's dog is, I think walking a big strong dog off leash into a crowd is a STUPID THING. The risk exists, within an eye blink. And I agreed with Jax08, as quoted: *"I think our failing make us work to find a solution and that makes us more knowledgeable"*


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> *Lessons lived & learned, can *most often*...harvest the best, practical advice.*
> JMO


:thumbup: Seems to me it would be difficult to give advice if you had the perfect dog and never experienced the issues people were addressing.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Lakl said:


> :thumbup: Seems to me it would be difficult to give advice if you had the perfect dog and never experienced the issues people were addressing.


Yes! 
Sheilah


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## Tammy GSD (Dec 26, 2010)

but is your dog well trained and highly socializied? I WOULD HAVE TO SAY YES (4 AGE)

can people visit your home without your dog being reactive? MY DOG BARKS...ALL 4, ACTUALLY. THEY NEED TO BE TOLD DOWN SO THEY DON'T JUMP OR BACK SO THE PERSON ISN'T CROWDED.

can you walk your dog off leash in a crowd or in center city? I WOULDN'T RISK THE HARM TO MY DOG TO TRY IT. PEOPLE ARE STUPID AND IF MY DOG GOT HURT BC OF NOT BEING LEASHED, I'D DIE. SHE COULD, THOUGH, YES. ID JUST REINFORCE HER TO BE AT MY HEEL SEVERAL TIMES TO BE SURE SHE WOULDN'T FORGET.

will your dog follow his commands when in the dog park? EVERY TIME...NOW. WE TRAINED THERE LOTS.

is your dog reactive around other animals??WELL, SHE REACTED WHEN SHE WAS RUNNING THROUGH THE FIELD AND RAN OVER THE TOP OF A CROUCHING CAT THAT SCARED THE CRAP OUT OF HER. SHE REACTED BY JUMPING UP IN THE AIR AND YELPING BEFORE RUNNING AFTER IT. AS SOON AS WE YELLED "COME" SHE CAME BACK. I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN, THOUGH. I DONT YET TRUST HER NOT TO REACT SO IF I SEE A POTENTIAL DANGER, I START SAYING "LEAVE IT". AS LONG AS I ADDRESS IT FIRST, THERE'S NOT BEEN A PROBLEM, EVEN A FEW TIMES WHEN YAPPY DOGS CAME UP TO HER, BARKING AND SNARLING. 

IS SHE PERFECT? OH IM SURE SHE ISN'T. SHE IS ONLY 11 MONTHS OLD AS OF THE 16 OF THIS MONTH. IM STILL LEARNING AND SO IS SHE.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

yeses to call of those. but he is 8 months and i haven't tried the commands in the dog park yet-as we don't go to those. he will come when the whistle is called no matter what so that i know for sure...but as for other things in the dog part i don't know.

i think we all have areas we are working on...dogs are never "perfect" this morning he almost ran me over trying to go play with snickers and scratched the back of my heel-but i don't consider that a huge problem..i need to work on his manners lol

i will have to edit for the off leash part too-as he's only 8 months...haven't tried that-but i do take him to football games, i took him to the U2 concert and the vans warped tour ON the leash and he was completely calm and fine and listened to my commands


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

My dogs aren't perfect... they are just perfect for me.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

My dogs are not perfect and I have made a lot of mistakes in their upbringing. I think that my experiences with them have taught me a great deal, and I think it's still okay for me to pass them along in the hopes that I can help others avoid the mistakes I have made. I do not think the fact that my dogs are not perfect disqualifies me from giving advice. And I do usually try to mention that I am not all-knowing with loads of experience when I do give that advice, so that the people reading my thoughts can take them with a grain or two of salt.

I notice, doggiedad, that when you give people advice, you tend to not include much detail. Say for instance, when you advise someone to train and socialize their dog. I would venture to guess that if perhaps you had experienced more difficulty in raising your dogs, and encountered behavioral problems that you could not solve on your own, your widened circle of experiences may in fact make you a bigger asset to this forum in that you could recount your own obstacles and how you went about surmounting them in much greater detail.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Does your dog have to be perfect in order to give advice? :thinking:


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## Locknload (Nov 8, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Does your dog have to be perfect in order to give advice? :thinking:


Being able to poop rainbows may be another qualification. My dog does that, and I am so full of advice I could burst sometimes.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Good_Karma said:


> My dogs are not perfect and I have made a lot of mistakes in their upbringing. I think that my experiences with them have taught me a great deal, and I think it's still okay for me to pass them along in the hopes that I can help others avoid the mistakes I have made. I do not think the fact that my dogs are not perfect disqualifies me from giving advice. And I do usually try to mention that I am not all-knowing with loads of experience when I do give that advice, so that the people reading my thoughts can take them with a grain or two of salt.
> 
> I notice, doggiedad, that when you give people advice, you tend to not include much detail. Say for instance, when you advise someone to train and socialize their dog. I would venture to guess that if perhaps you had experienced more difficulty in raising your dogs, and encountered behavioral problems that you could not solve on your own, your widened circle of experiences may in fact make you a bigger asset to this forum in that you could recount your own obstacles and how you went about surmounting them in much greater detail.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


 I'll see your two cents and raise it to four....


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Locknload said:


> Being able to poop rainbows may be another qualification. My dog does that, and I am so full of advice I could burst sometimes.


 
Bwahahaaaahaaa!!!!!!......*gasp* hahahahaha!!!!! *wipes coffee off screen* ahahaaha!!!!! 

...ok, I'm better now.


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## tracyaesaert (Aug 23, 2011)

my dog is not perfect, nor will she ever be... that is her character and honestly I do not want her to be perfect, she has her quirks, just like we humans do.... But I appriciate every information I find on GSDs, cause she is my first dog and we both need to learn a lot... And I sure as **** need to relax a lot more when I am walking with her


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

CarrieJ said:


> I'll see your two cents and raise it to four....


I'll see it and raise it to a dolla! Poop rainbows? Ha!!! **** I wish my dog would do that.

Doggiedad, I read your posts often and have wondered if you have ever had a single dog difficulty. It seems like you never have. I am new here, though, so I could be off base. Your original post just comes off as really condescending. 

Are your questions the list of requirements as to whether a person can give advice? Sooo following that logic, if your dog is all those things, you CAN dispense advice. What if you were not the person who trained said dog? Can you still give advice?

Difficulties and struggles are the best teachers.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

chelle said:


> I'll see it and raise it to a dolla! Poop rainbows? Ha!!! **** I wish my dog would do that.
> 
> Doggiedad, I read your posts often and have wondered if you have ever had a single dog difficulty. It seems like you never have. I am new here, though, so I could be off base. Your original post just comes off as really condescending.


screw pooping rainbows!! mine lays GOLDEN EGGS!

i <3 doggiedad. he is short, blunt and too the point...because of this i think people take some of his posts the wrong way...but out of everyone on this forum he's one of the top 5 (to me) that offers great advice. I love reading his posts...sometimes he puts an underlining humor, whether it's intentional or not, that makes me laugh 


i guess what he's asking is...do we follow our own advice and does it work?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

yes , the dogs are stable, not due to training , clear , and secure . any dog , any guest, dam with litter , dog in training , not reactive.

walking off lead in downtown -- loose leash not distracted , not stimulated , calm, yet aware 
have had them in subway stations, platforms while commuters rushing home, have ridden on subway, escalators, elevators , street car - 

have done demos , protection demos at huge Toronto Sportsmen's show, and Toronto Royal Winter Fair.

dog parks , don't promote, don't recommend , don't visit 
can work with other dogs running around -- sure - Toronto Beaches boardwalk , country fair demo while dogs doing agility 
dogs have had exposure to my horses, to the neighbour farmer's sheep, and black angus cattle, Canada geese at park and waterfront, dogs, our house cats, ostriches and emus on Thickson road farm close to us, alpacas at a friends -- no problem 

I expect them to be like this from the first time they enter such an environment , whether they are 10 weeks , 3 years , it has to be basic to their nature. Sound .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

you give all of this advice concerning dogs
but is your dog well trained and highly socializied? *I'd say so. There's ALWAYS room for improvement with training, but I'm happy with where we're at.*

can people visit your home without your dog
being reactive? *Lucy LOVES visitors. She welcomes everyone into the house no questions asked. *

can you walk your dog off leash
in a crowd or in center city? *Technically... I'm sure she could. Would I attempt it... no. People would probably freak out at the site of an off leash gsd in a public place like that.*

will your dog
follow his commands when in the dog park? *I hate dog parks. I'd give the sit command and she'd probably attempted to be mounted.*

is your dog reactive around other animals?? *We went to the bark in the park game at citi field yesterday (where the mets play). We participated in a dog parade before the game on the field and sat* *in the stands with hundreds of other dogs of all sizes. She was a perfect angel the entire time.*


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

doggiedad said:


> you give all of this advice concerning dogs but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?


He is well trained in the basics. He is incredibly well socialized. 



doggiedad said:


> can people visit your home without your dog being reactive?


Absolutely.



doggiedad said:


> can you walk your dog off leash in a crowd or in center city?


No, that's illegal, so I have no need to teach him that. He wouldn't run away, but he wouldn't heel nicely like he does on a leash. 



doggiedad said:


> will your dog follow his commands when in the dog park?


Yup.



doggiedad said:


> is your dog reactive around other animals??


He likes chasing cats if that counts?

Just because my dog is not trained to do some things that you think dogs should be trained to do doesn't make me a poor owner or dog trainer that is unfit to give advice, it just means I have no interest in training some things that I find unnecessary. I wouldn't ever need to train my dog to heel next to me off leash while walking through a crowd in the city, because I'd be given a $200 dog-at-large ticket instantly.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Is my dog well trained and socialized?*
I'd like to think so

*people come to my house without her being reactive?*
absolutely, unfortunately she'd let an axe murderer in, but out in public it's a whole other ballgame..she prefers to be left alone, isn't a waggy friendly dog with strangers off property, very aloof, and prefers to just 'be'..

*can I walk her in a crowd off leash/city?*
suppose i could if I wanted to, but I doubt I ever would

*will your dog follow commands at the dog park?*
I don't go to dog parks, but if I'm out hiking where she is normally offleash, I've never had a problem with her doing anything I ask.


*is your dog reactive around other animals?*
if she's being charged at definately yes, she has no interest in interacting with animals she isn't familiar with, usually minds her own business unless she's been provoked/charged.

No she isn't perfect but she's perfect for me


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## Gmthrust (Mar 3, 2010)

Poop rainbows!!! LOL!!!! OMG!!! Fuuunnnnneeeee!!!!


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Both are well trained and socialized.

People can absolutely come to my home without them being reactive.

Although I wouldn't try walking in a city center off leash I believe Bunny could do it but not Jazz.

Both listen to my commands at the dog park.

Bunny is reactive to other dogs if they are aggressive towards her. Jazz is reactive towards other dogs when it comes to resource guarding. This is something we are working on.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Hey doggiedad- I've always wondered what's up with the line breaks in your responses. I'm sure I am not the only one. Care to fill us in?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Each one of my dogs are different from the other and all are a work in progress. 
_Train and socialize_ is doggiedads mantra, which is fine, easy to type out and suggest, but there is more to a dogs daily life "issues" than training and socializing. 

If we all had well bred dogs, it would make it so much simpler.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Gmthrust said:


> Poop rainbows!!! LOL!!!! OMG!!! Fuuunnnnneeeee!!!!


 
That's why there is a pot at the end of the rainbow


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

carmspack said:


> That's why there is a pot at the end of the rainbow


Oh, man...that is hilarious!


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

I'm not sure why the OP's "list" has anything to do with whether or not someone is qualified to give good advice.

Honestly, like others have stated so many times already, I would be looking for someone who has experience rehabilitating temperament-impaired dogs, or someone who deals with a dog like that day in and day out - not someone who _hasn't_ had to deal with problems like that.

That's not to say someone like that might not have good advice, they might - but they just wouldn't be my first avenue to go down as a knowledge resource.

~

*but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?*

I would say he's well-trained. Not 100% on everything, but well-trained, yes. Not highly socialized, though. That is my mistake.

*can people visit your home without your dog being reactive? *

Nope. Not unless he already knows them.

*can you walk your dog off leash in a crowd or in center city? *

I don't know why you would ever even want to do that. I'm not even sure that's legal in a vast majority of places.
*
will your dog follow his commands when in the dog park?*

I don't go to dog parks, I think they are just a breeding ground for trouble. But, in new places, public places, yes, he does follow his commands.

*is your dog reactive around other animals?? *

He is interested in them, to see what they are, but he's about as apt to sit at a distance and just watch them as he is to run up and sniff them and investigate. Definitely not aggressive or fearful around them, though, unless they are very large (like horses). At that point he wants to keep his distance and watch them, sniff them out a little, etc.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

wildo said:


> Hey doggiedad- I've always wondered what's up with the line breaks in your responses. I'm sure I am not the only one. Care to fill us in?


He's a poet
And he didn't know it.
But his feet show it--
They're Long Fellows.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

* is your dog well trained and highly socializied?*

Yes, I am currently a member of three different training clubs, my adult dogs have titles obedience, tracking, protection, herding, lure coursing, dock diving, rally obedience, conformation, agility, and they are CGC and ATTS Temperament Test certified. I take my dogs everywhere dogs are allowed and even sneak a few places they are not 

*can people visit your home without your dog being reactive?*

Yes, I do not have to crate or confine my dogs unless the person asks me to (I will if they are allergic or scared of dogs).

*can you walk your dog off leash in a crowd or in center city? *

My adults, yes they *could* do this but there is a leash law here. My puppy, yes but should be on a leash still. My dogs have been in parades, gone to large picnics, huge public festival/firework display, etc.

*will your dog follow his commands when in the dog park?*

I do not use the dog park but I do regularly train (at least twice a week) with other people and their dogs out at the same time. I also proof my dogs to hold positions while other dogs are free playing together or playing fetch.
*
is your dog reactive around other animals??*

Only unless the other dog gets in his/her face first. Otherwise they are ignored.


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## King&Skylar (Jun 3, 2010)

you give all of this advice concerning dogs
but is your dog well trained and highly socializied? *Yes.*

can people visit your home without your dog
being reactive? *Yes.*

can you walk your dog off leash
in a crowd or in center city? *Probably- but I wouldn't attempt it. *

will your dog
follow his commands when in the dog park? *Wouldn't lay a foot in a dog park. She responds to commands off leash in our yard around fenced in reactive dogs (boarding kennel)*

is your dog reactive around other animals?? *She was- we worked- trained & socialized through it and she is not anymore- even when other dogs react to her. This is the only thing I can give advice about- my experiences- because I've been through it, and actually have the dog to prove that my method worked.*


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## Gmthrust (Mar 3, 2010)

_That's why there is a pot at the end of the rainbow_

LOL Good grief!!! LOL!!!


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## Gmthrust (Mar 3, 2010)

Dang I can not stop laughing!!! Dang it !!


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

lol, I guess it was getting too quiet around here huh?

Ok, let's see, I don't give that much advice but I will answer. 


is your dog well trained and highly socialized? yes and no-depends on which dog.
can people visit your home without your dog
being reactive? yes, and somewhat
can you walk your dog off leash
in a crowd or in center city? no and no
will your dog follow his commands when in the dog park? somewhat and no
is your dog reactive around other animals?? yes and sometimes

Your turn OP, now you answer the questions.


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

Interesting list.


I would NEVER walk my dogs off-leash unless it were on my own property. 

I would NEVER bring my dogs to a dog park.


They are therapy dogs - therefore well trained & highly socialized.
Other animals usually don't interest them.


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

onyx'girl said:


> Each one of my dogs are different from the other and all are a work in progress.
> _Train and socialize_ is doggiedads mantra, which is fine, easy to type out and suggest, but there is more to a dogs daily life "issues" than training and socializing.
> 
> If we all had well bred dogs, it would make it so much simpler.


Agree 100%. Training and socializing are important, but they cannot always overcome genetic flaws. OP, if you think that all you need to do is train and socialize the heck out of a dog, I suggest you work with some dogs who genetically have a poor temperament, maybe foster for a rescue or shelter. From what I can see, your dog seems to be well-bred and from a WGSL breeder. Pretty easy to train and socialize a dog that's already got their ducks lined up to succeed. Harder to do with a dog that has a lot to overcome at the start. The ones who can work with the difficult dogs are the trainers that I respect, and the ones whose advice I value the most.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i didn't see where being perfect or having a perfect dog
was in the question but from your answer
all of us know your dog isn't close to perfect, good,
non- reactive, etc.



Zisso said:


> Personally, I think we all have areas that we give advice based on our experiences and that none of claim to be perfect or have the perfect dog.....well, except you of course!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

you give all of this advice concerning dogs *[we all give advice but we don't all give all advice]*

but is your dog well trained and highly socializied? *[define well trained, if good manners and no reactivity but politely indifferent, yes-if precision heeling and fancy turns, no]*

can people visit your home without your dog being reactive? [*yes]*

can you walk your dog off leash in a crowd or in center city? *[NOT a choice I would make but I have had to work him offlead with a group of people un urban environments-he listens to me but the problem with crowds and center city is there is a lot of unpredictabilty so I would not choose to do that. He has worked offlead under and interstate overpass though]*

will your dog follow his commands when in the dog park? *[I don't "do" dog parks but he will follow commands when we encounter loose stray dogs]*

is your dog reactive around other animals?? *[he ignores other animals]*

*I tend only to give advice in areas where I feel I have enough knowledge and experience to benefit someone else. *


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i was tyring to show examples and that's the list
i came up with.



GSDElsa said:


> Curious as to how you came up with your list? I would never walk my dog off leash in a city center, period. Dogs are creatures and none of them are 100% infallible.
> 
> I think sometimes people give the best advice because their dogs are not perfect and they have been through those same struggles.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

taking in a dog with problems is out of my league.



Virginia said:


> Agree 100%. Training and socializing are important, but they cannot always overcome genetic flaws. OP, if you think that all you need to do is train and socialize the heck out of a dog, I suggest you work with some dogs who genetically have a poor temperament, maybe foster for a rescue or shelter. From what I can see, your dog seems to be well-bred and from a WGSL breeder. Pretty easy to train and socialize a dog that's already got their ducks lined up to succeed. Harder to do with a dog that has a lot to overcome at the start. The ones who can work with the difficult dogs are the trainers that I respect, and the ones whose advice I value the most.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Does your dog have to be perfect in order to give advice? :thinking:


^^^^ This was the first thing I thought of when I read the OP.
We don't just learn from our own dogs. We read, we observe, we listen to others and make thoughtful observations. I didn't learn everything from my kids. I read, I observed, I listened to others I used my own mind (for what it's worth).
We can learn from our dog's imperfections and give advice from those and the mistakes we made also.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm confused. Nothing personal doggiedad but this is another weird thread IMO. What is the point?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you don't have to have a dog with problems
or a dog that was difficult to train to be an asset
to the forum. whatever ones experience is is an asset.
if i had a problem with a dog i would find a trainer.
how hard is that to figure out??



Good_Karma said:


> I notice, doggiedad, that when you give people advice, you tend to not include much detail. Say for instance, when you advise someone to train and socialize their dog. I would venture to guess that if perhaps you had experienced more difficulty in raising your dogs, and encountered behavioral problems that you could not solve on your own, your widened circle of experiences may in fact make you a bigger asset to this forum in that you could recount your own obstacles and how you went about surmounting them in much greater detail.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i was wondering how people on the forum give advice
but have dogs with problems.



Jack's Dad said:


> I'm confused. Nothing personal doggiedad but this is another weird thread IMO. What is the point?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

thanks and yes that's what i was trying to say. do
you follow your on advice??



MicheleMarie said:


> screw pooping rainbows!! mine lays GOLDEN EGGS!
> 
> i <3 doggiedad. he is short, blunt and too the point...because of this i think people take some of his posts the wrong way...but out of everyone on this forum he's one of the top 5 (to me) that offers great advice. I love reading his posts...sometimes he puts an underlining humor, whether it's intentional or not, that makes me laugh
> 
> ...


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> thanks and yes that's what i was trying to say. do
> you follow your on advice??


Well, it follows that if you follow someone else's advice then you are
advising yourself to follow that advice so you are following your own advice.
If you are not following someone else's advice then it must be your own.
Sooooooooooo......... you are ALWAYS following your own advice.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i have a higher threshold for what i consider a problem.

stop being so sensitive. there was nothing condescending
in my original post.



chelle said:


> Doggiedad, I read your posts often and have wondered if you have ever had a single dog difficulty. It seems like you never have. I am new here, though, so I could be off base.
> 
> >>>Your original post just comes off as really condescending. <<<


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i was wondering how people on the forum give advice
> but have dogs with problems.


If you think a person can only give advice if they have a perfect dog, you're asking a bit much. Some dogs will never be perfect and it takes a very knowledgeable person to be able to care for such a dog. Dogs are not robots and they make decisions every second/minute/day of their lives... 

Good management and knowledge of dog behavior is important -- knowing what to do when the dog reacts is important. Having a perfect dog is nice, but not realistic in all cases. H*ll, I don't think I'd consider any dog 'perfect' 

I've taken in many dogs (as fosters) and worked with them to the point where I felt comfortable rehoming them. They were not perfect, but they were to the point where they'd make good pets. I've also worked with dogs that needed an experienced handler as they would always be a liability, even if it's been greatly reduced -- some dogs I would never trust with an inexperienced owner because if the owner did not know what to look for they could push their dog past threshold. The goal with training is to increase that threshold. 

Also, you need to take breed into consideration. Sighthounds are not the type of dog I'd walk off leash through a crowded city. I don't care how much training goes in to the dog. To be a sighthound requires a HUGE degree of instinct, and you can't just train away years of selective breeding. 

I own dogs I trust to a huge extent, but I also own dogs that I don't trust because of their past experiences, their genetics, their instincts, etc. A dog is a thinking animal -- show me a human with no flaws who never gets anything wrong and then I'll show you a dog that can do the same!


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> Well, it follows that if you follow someone else's advice then you are
> advising yourself to follow that advice so you are following your own advice.


Well if I'm following someone else's advice, who in turn is following someone else's advise, who in turn is (you get the idea) then am I still advising myself to follow that advice so I'm still following my own advice. 
If a tree falls in the forest etc..


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

:silly:get off your backs you sensitive
pupper-wuppers and you older dogs
here's a treat so stop raising the hackles.
good boy, good girl.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Jack's Dad said:


> Well if I'm following someone else's advice, who in turn is following someone else's advise, who in turn is (you get the idea) then am I still advising myself to follow that advice so I'm still following my own advice.
> If a tree falls in the forest etc..


If a tree falls in the forest and there is no woman around to
hear it, is it still wrong?


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> If a tree falls in the forest and there is no woman around to hear it, is it still wrong?


I think that's supposed to be: 

If a man talks and there's no one there to hear him, is he still wrong?


----------



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I'm hoping we still might get an answer to this.



wildo said:


> Hey doggiedad- I've always wondered what's up with the line breaks in your responses. I'm sure I am not the only one. Care to fill us in?


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I think that's supposed to be:
> 
> If a man talks and there's no one there to hear him, is he still wrong?


I know, I was trying (failed) to be funny from the previous post.
But thanks for your help.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

wildo said:


> Hey doggiedad- I've always wondered what's up with the line breaks in your responses. I'm sure I am not the only one. Care to fill us in?


I've wondered this too every time I've read one of his posts. It reads weird, kind of robotic.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> I've wondered this too every time I've read one of his posts. It reads weird, kind of robotic.


It reads like poetry


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> If a tree falls in the forest and there is no woman around to
> hear it, is it still wrong?


Or did it actually fall? at all, ya all.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I didn't think there was anything wrong with doggiedad's post. I often wondered if I would be surprised by the behaviour of other people's dogs who post on here. It's often easy to know how to solve a problem but a whole other ballgame when it comes time to put that solution into action. There's been times when people have commented to me about how well behaved my guys are and then later they act like complete idiots and I think to myself, "If only they could see us now!"


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> i have a higher threshold for what i consider a problem.
> 
> stop being so sensitive. there was nothing condescending
> in my original post.


Well we can agree to disagree, I suppose. 

"Higher threshold for what I consider a problem."

What the **** does THAT mean?

Bottom line? ALL you do is offer advice. You share nothing else, at least in my time here. Your advice, anymore, to me, is becoming less and less useful. I've never heard anything about HOW you came to your conclusions -- not that I disagree with them -- but it IS robotic. **** for all I know, you don't own a single dog and you google it all. 

Sensitive, pshaw.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Since we are talking about giving advice. I wish someone would help StryderPup who asked a legitimate question about recent changes (nipping at child/jumping up and barking). I don't have that much experience with anew behavior like that but Ii tried to bump her post up in hopes someone would help. She had very few views and 2 replies, one mine.
No offense gretchen but you got a lot more attention with the possible change in gas at Costco. And this thread is well on it's way to a big hit.
Sometime I don't understand the forum.
StryderPup's question has been up since early A. m. , StryderPup if you are not a her I apologize.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

chelle said:


> Bottom line? ALL you do is offer advice. You share nothing else, at least in my time here. Your advice, anymore, to me, is becoming less and less useful. I've never heard anything about HOW you came to your conclusions -- not that I disagree with them -- but it IS robotic. **** for all I know, you don't own a single dog and you google it all.


Doggiedad doesn't need defending he's a big boy. I just wanted to say his writing style is unique. Unique isn't a bad thing. 

BTW, You can click on any members avatar and read through their old posts if you want to know more about them.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I just wanted to say his writing style is unique. Unique isn't a bad thing.


I definitely agree. I just said I was curious if he'd elaborate on the style... :thumbup:


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

My dog is absolutely perfect at all times and so am I! LOL...


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

ponyfarm said:


> My dog is absolutely perfect at all times and so am I! LOL...


Awesomesauce  We should hang out, I have a perfect dog stashed away around here somewhere as well! Just make sure your perfect dog doesn't pull my perfect dog's stuffing out


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

oh Dali Dog, your words are beyond this pups sniffing.



PaddyD said:


> Well, it follows that if you follow someone else's advice then you are
> advising yourself to follow that advice so you are following your own advice.
> If you are not following someone else's advice then it must be your own.
> Sooooooooooo......... you are ALWAYS following your own advice.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

This is the very perfection of a man, to find out his own imperfection.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

When I was a kid we had a dog who could poop rainbows: She liked to eat crayons! :laugh:


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Somewhere, over the rainbow, way up high, there's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby. I think it was called the land of perfection…..lol


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

dog difficulty, problems. i don't consider most things
a problem or difficult when it comes to dogs. higher threshold for problems
mean what most people consider a problem or difficult
i don't.

maybe i'm reading the posts wrong but it seems to me
that the posts are full of advice and that happens
when people ask a question. :crazy: 



chelle said:


> I'll see it and raise it to a dolla! Poop rainbows? Ha!!! **** I wish my dog would do that.
> 
> Doggiedad, I read your posts often and have wondered if you have ever had a
> 
> ...





chelle said:


> Well we can agree to disagree, I suppose.
> 
> >>>>"Higher threshold for what I consider a problem."<<<<
> 
> ...


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Doggiedad doesn't need defending he's a big boy. I just wanted to say his writing style is unique. Unique isn't a bad thing.
> 
> BTW, You can click on any members avatar and read through their old posts if you want to know more about them.


Unclear here, doesn't need defending..? It's ok, doesn't matter. No, unique certainly is not necessarily bad, but there's good-unique and bad-unique... good witch, bad witch. 

I know I could read the old posts. I'm too lazy. I don't think he and I are friends anymore anyway. He called me sensitive. I'm still crying about that. :shocked:

And on a side note, I'm going to feed my dog crayons. I want to see the poop rainbow. :wild:


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> dog difficulty, problems. i don't consider most things a problem or difficult when it comes to dogs.


Could you please come to my house? I could use some help! 

I'm not fighting with you, doggiedad. I'm just ornery.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> dog difficulty, problems. i don't consider most things
> a problem or difficult when it comes to dogs. higher threshold for problems
> mean what most people consider a problem or difficult
> i don't.
> ...


There is so much out there to learn... even the best of us are constantly learning, and trying to figure out better ways to get to the desired outcomes. I keep up with quite a few trainers, and they are seemingly always revising their training techniques. 

As far as seeing things as problematic or difficult, everyone is different and to seek advice is better than to repeat a past way of doing something that has failed to produce results. 

Not that all advice should be taken equally, and just becomes something works for one dog does not mean it's going to work for every dog... but forums are great resources that offer a plethora of information (even if a good portion of it should be taken with a grain of sand )


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

what other wierd threads did i start???



Jack's Dad said:


> I'm confused. Nothing personal doggiedad but this is another weird thread IMO. What is the point?


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i was wondering how people on the forum give advice
> but have dogs with problems.


Here is my take on it. If I HADN'T spent the last two years working with a fear reactive dog, how could I give advice on it? I think the "problems" that we experience with our dogs teach us what we are doing right and wrong and then we can then pass that information or experience onto others. For the most part, I don't think people are giving advice on subjects they've never dealt with personally. I've never given anyone advice on how to deal with a dog that is aggressive toward children outside of "find a behaviorist or trainer" because I've never dealt with a dog like that. I mean it really seems logical to me. Why would I take advice from someone who's never dealt with similar issues as me?


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> what other wierd threads did i start???


Not "you" just weird threads in general.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I have learned something new from every single dog I have owned, every single dog I have fostered, and every single dog that belonged to someone else whom I trained with. Because all dogs are different and learn differently, I've learned to use many different tools for training and to think about and approach the same situation or command in many different ways because what works for one dog does not work for another. If I had dogs that came perfectly trained right out of the box, I'd never have learned anything about training or problem solving in training.

I also think ... if you expect little from your dog - meaning, if your only goals are sit, down, walk on a leash - you will probably find few problems or issues in training. If you expect a lot - like if you're involved in competition or train any kind of complex behaviors (say, teach your dog to pick up its bag of poop and throw it in the trash), or work with a dog that is "difficult" due to bad nerves or what not, you'll experience a lot more "problems" to overcome in training.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
No


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

doggiedad said:


> you give all of this advice concerning dogs
> but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?
> Babs, Heidi, Joy, Jenna, Odessa, Milla are both pretty well-trained and social, Ninja and Tori are trained, but not as social, Dolly and Bear are getting there.
> 
> ...


 So, do I pass or fail?


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Is there a city center anywhere in the US or Canada where it would be legal to walk a dog off leash? Heck, I can't even walk my dog off leash in the unincorporated areas of my county.


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## JPF (Feb 5, 2011)

im glad others have noticed the OP's tendencies. There are people who know what they are doing yet have dogs that are not perfect. Please realize that without being condescending.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

JPF said:


> There are people who know what they are doing yet have dogs that are not perfect.


I personally know several trainers with 'problem' dogs... they have these dogs and are working with them because no one else would! 

Also, I think having had a problematic dog makes you a better trainer and, if you do it right, can help you be more patient!


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> you don't have to have a dog with problems
> or a dog that was difficult to train to be an asset
> to the forum. whatever ones experience is is an asset.
> if i had a problem with a dog i would find a trainer.
> how hard is that to figure out??


Of course you don't have to have a problem dog to be an asset to the forum. BUT you can be a greater asset to the forum if you provide more detail in giving your advice to people who are seeking help.

For instance: Someone writes with a question about how to potty train since they are having accidents all over the house and are at their wit's end.

Here is an example of mediocre advice: "Take your dog outside to potty, don't let them have an accident in the house"

This advice is not really very helpful, because it lacks details that explain HOW to go about doing this. 

Here is an example of helpful advice: "Take your puppy outside to potty every half hour if they are awake, after every meal and when they wake up from a nap. Keep them on a tether attached to you, or crate them when you cannot watch them. If you are still having peeing in the house, you may want to think about having your pup checked out by a vet to make sure that there is no urinary infection. Make sure that you clean up accidents with an enzymatic cleaner (if you are really being helpful, include a link to the product). You have to keep a very close eye on your pup to prevent accidents, and remember if one happens, it is not the dog's fault since he is just a baby and cannot physically hold his pee or poop as long as an adult dog, plus he doesn't know the rules. It is important not to punish the dog for an accident because it teaches the dog to just not potty in front of you"

Now if I had brought home a puppy who immediately got the concept of housebreaking and never had an accident in the house, I would be more inclined to give the first example of advice, which really wouldn't help very many people.

Since I brought home a normal puppy, I faced more challenges and it has enabled me to give more detail in my advice, and I believe that helps a wider range of people.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I want and answer to the writing style, darnnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

GSDElsa said:


> I want and answer to the writing style, darnnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL! Me too! That's the only reason I'm monitoring this thread! Com'on doggiedad; fill us in!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think it is just dd's way of not wasting time with the shift and enter button...


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Good_Karma said:


> Of course you don't have to have a problem dog to be an asset to the forum. BUT you can be a greater asset to the forum if you provide more detail in giving your advice to people who are seeking help.
> 
> For instance: Someone writes with a question about how to potty train since they are having accidents all over the house and are at their wit's end.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

My feelings about giving advice is that everyone that has a dog at anytime has learned things from it. (unless of course it is the perfect dog sitting on the bed in the same pose every day that does not make a sound, poop, pee or eat or shed) 
What really bothers me is when someone asks a question and someone answers and then all heck breaks loose because others who post alot decide the advice given is not according to their methods and therefore are wrong. I have gotten that a couple of times, which is why I don't post alot.
I have been around dogs, all breeds for close to 50 years, have put titles on obedience, conformaton, helped train police dogs, and worked with different types of problems for years, but most of the time I don't post because of the few who tear everyone else apart.
Is my girl perfect? Nope and I don't tell everyone she is. Can she be approached, petted, and happily meet new people? Yes. Can she be around other animals? Yes. Could I walk her off leash in the city? Nope and wouldn't try. She is still only 10 months old and quite a goofball. Can people come into my house? Yes and they do and she is very happy to meet them. Can I take away food, toys, anything from her? Yes and I trained her that way so my grandkids or anybody have no problems walking by her or taking her food? Do I give her better things when I take these items away? No, she doesn't expect them.
I train that way and it makes me happy. But just because I do it my way, doesn't make it wrong. It just might be different than other do.
BUT, that doesn't mean my way is wrong. It doesn't mean I don't have experience in other areas to give advice. Would I give advice about herding? Nope, don't have a clue, but would love to learn.
Would I give medical advice? Yes, because I have worked for vets for over 35 years and am knowledgable in those areas. Would I give breeding advice? Raising litters? Yes, because I have been doing that for 30+ years also. Am I an expert in these areas? No, but have plenty of practical advice.
People give advice in areas they have experience in. Doesn't matter if its one dog or twenty that they own, everyone gets experience by living it.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Re writing style

It could be because English is not his first language. My dad writes emails in the same format. It makes it easier for him to proofread.

I don't have a perfect dog, but I'm working on it, but I still give advice when I can in areas that I have had experience, which is not a lot.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> you give all of this advice concerning dogs
> but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?
> yes and yes
> can people visit your home without your dog
> ...


Here's a question for you, is yours?? You are one of the people that love to give advice on this forum after all..


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

1/socialized yes, both, trained yes, both but different levels, 2/anyone can come in, manners and training at home are very high, 3/off leash???how about loose leash??yes, both together. 4/dog park, ty yes, Gemma maybe..5/.other animals are we talking squirrels?? rabbits?? heeling? I better see them when Gemma sees them, Ty will continue heeling but get larger..and loose both call off quickly, but the desire......


Why I give advice?? by my age and having lots of dogs over the years I have had tons of things crop up both personally and by friends dogs and we've tried different things at different times and with different dogs, so I offer suggestions, and I come on here asking for advice for myself and my friends and family if something is outside my knowledge base...that is what I like about forums I don';t have to agree or utilize anything but have some other ideas to work with.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Caledon said:


> Re writing style
> 
> It could be because English is not his first language. My dad writes emails in the same format. It makes it easier for him to proofread.
> 
> I don't have a perfect dog, but I'm working on it, but I still give advice when I can in areas that I have had experience, which is not a lot.


I still say the style is prose written as poetry style.
I read a lot of poetry, much of which is the non-rhyming kind
and it is written in that style. Here is an example: (but it rhymes)

I STARTED early, took my dog 
And visited the sea 
The mermaids in the basement	
Came out to look at me

And frigates in the upper floor
Extended hempen hands	
Presuming me to be a mouse	
Aground, upon the sands


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> you give all of this advice concerning dogs
> but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?


Yes, my male is.



doggiedad said:


> can people visit your home without your dog
> being reactive?


Yes, he loves people.



doggiedad said:


> can you walk your dog off leash
> in a crowd or in center city?


I do walk my dog off leash in my neighbor hood and down by the beach but I would never attempt it in a crowd or busy city, I trust my dog but I do not trust people and other dogs.



doggiedad said:


> will your dog
> follow his commands when in the dog park?


Yes and no.




doggiedad said:


> is your dog reactive around other animals??


No, he likes other dogs and cats.


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## Duke-2009 (Apr 13, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> you give all of this advice concerning dogs
> but is your dog well trained and highly socializied? *YES
> 
> * can people visit your home without your dog
> ...


See above, some of your questions and answers though are inherent of the breed.


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## VegasResident (Oct 4, 2006)

doggiedad said:


> you give all of this advice concerning dogs
> but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?
> can people visit your home without your dog
> being reactive? can you walk your dog off leash
> ...


I think we all have advice when we have gone through something and learned. I am interested in the list. I too would never want my dog off leash in a crowd or city. Cars, other dogs, etc can hurt him. My last dog was attacked more times by dogs off leash that were "under control" by their owner. I would also never take my dog to a dog park. He plays in a controlled supervised environment at daycare.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

robinhuerta said:


> *Lessons lived & learned, can *most often*...harvest the best, practical advice.*
> JMO


Yup!

would love to say my dogs are perfect but they can be reactive occasionally, and I give reactivity advice cause I know what woked for me and I have a pretty good handle on dog behavior and positive training. Am I an expert? Nope.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I wouldn't walk my husband without a leash in a crowd or in center city. "Ohhh, something shiney......"


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

You give all of this advice concerning dogs

But is your dog well trained and highly socialized? *Yes*
Can people visit your home without your dog being reactive? *Yes, he doesn't even bark if people are on the property, he just watches.*
Can you walk your dog off leash _*No, and why the **** would I?! *_
In a crowd or in center city? *Yes*
Will your dog follow his commands when in the dog park? *I don't take him to the bark park, it's not safe for him. *
Is your dog reactive around other animals?? *No, he isn't reactive at all, he is very well behaved, he only barks at training. He doesn't growl or misbehave of any sort.*


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## Zuiun (Jul 1, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?


My dogs are obedient, friendly and happy.



> can people visit your home without your dog
> being reactive?


Define "reactive." When someone comes to my door, my dogs let me - and them - know about it. This is what I want. My dogs are not accessories. Whether I am at home or not, their job is to protect the house and this they do very well. When I come to the door, they back off and I'm in charge.



> can you walk your dog off leash
> in a crowd or in center city? will your dog
> follow his commands when in the dog park?


Can I? Yes. Would I? No. As a responsible dog owner, why would I put my animals at unnecessary risk like that?

Part of my job as a dog owner is to protect my animals from elements beyond their own capacity to handle. Keeping my dogs on leash helps with their protection. Likewise, keeping them out of dog parks protects them from the unknown element of other animals.



> is your dog reactive around other animals??


There are only reactive in the sense that every dog they meet is their new best friend.


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

Lilie said:


> I wouldn't walk my husband without a leash in a crowd or in center city. "Ohhh, something shiney......"


HAHA.  That quote made my morning.



> is your dog well trained and highly socializied?


They are trained but I don't know about well. They are socializied somewhat. I've probably slacked off a lot in the last year.



> can people visit your home without your dog
> being reactive?


Well, they bark when people first arrive in the driveway. I actually like that b/c I don't have any main windows that face my driveway. Most of my windows face the back of my property.



> can you walk your dog off leash
> in a crowd or in center city? will your dog
> follow his commands when in the dog park?


no, no, and no. Maybe they could but I am a parnoid person. We don't have dog parks here that I know of......but we do have bike trails. They do alright on them. 



> is your dog reactive around other animals??


Well, the neighbor's labs came in our yard one time. They barked at them but didn't do anything. They do alright at the vets office around other animals. Our vet has 2 loose cats running around his office. I would def. trust my dogs one at a time....but all 3 together around other dogs....no way.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

>>>> you learn from any dog you have. that's your
experience to share whether it's good or bad.
it's the experience with the dog.<<<<

>>>> people are sensitive and they take things
personally. if there dog can't do it then your
question is dumb, their way is the right way.
"i would never do that" maybe you can't do that
because your dog isn't trained to do it.



wyominggrandma said:


> >>>> My feelings about giving advice is that everyone that has a dog at anytime has learned things from it. (unless of course it is the perfect dog sitting on the bed in the same pose every day that does not make a sound, poop, pee or eat or shed) <<<<<
> 
> >>>> What really bothers me is when someone asks a question and someone answers and then all heck breaks loose because others who post alot decide the advice given is not according to their methods and therefore are wrong.<<<<
> 
> ...


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> you give all of this advice concerning dogs


but is your dog well trained and highly socializied? *She's as trained and as socialized as I want her to be*
can people visit your home without your dog being reactive? *She barks when people approach the house and is friendly when they come in*
can you walk your dog off leash in a crowd or in center city? * Why would I do such a stupid thing as that?*
will your dog follow his commands when in the dog park? *I don't know if she follows her commands, but she follows mine.*
is your dog reactive around other animals?? *She is generally non-reactive unless she spots a dog-friend, then she wants to get to him/her and play*


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i notice a lot of you think it's stupid
that i asked "can you walk your dog in center city
off leash"?? considering we have a pet/companion
dog he goes with us a lot. one day we're in town visiting
friends. my buddy and i take my dog to the local
dog park. we're walking down the street and my buddy
said " i like how your dog walks with you". i realized
i forgot to bring his leash. at that moment i thought
i'm really glad we spent a lot of time training in the city.
it would have been stupid to walk him off leash
if he wasn't trained for that situation. when you get
caught in a stupid situation it's good to have a dog
that's trained. it makes the stupid you/me and the stupid situation
not so stupid.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> When you get
> caught in a stupid situation it's good to have a dog
> that's trained. it makes the stupid you/me and the stupid situation
> not so stupid.


I do buy into working / training your dog for situations that although shouldn't ever happen....could. You can control your dog, but you can't control your enviroment. 

I think it also helps keep the dog fresh and interested. As my dog is handicapped, rarely would he be in a situation where I'm going to do a lot of walking. However, every time I leave the house with him, something could happen where I'll have to deviate from my original plans and he (and I) should be prepared for that event.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> i notice a lot of you think it's stupid
> that i asked "can you walk your dog in center city
> off leash"??
> it would have been stupid to walk him off leash
> ...


I agree that it's good to find out that your dog will be OK in
that situation. But I would not intentionally put her in the
situation, so I think it would stupid to take the chance 
unnecessarily. It is not only the dog but the unknown
circumstances that could surprise you.


----------



## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Is it just me or does doggiedad take a "Holier-than-thou" viewpoint consistently?

I am perfect, by the way. So is my 4 month old puppy. No flaws here.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Wild Wolf said:


> Is it just me or does doggiedad take a "Holier-than-thou" viewpoint consistently?
> 
> I am perfect, by the way. So is my 4 month old puppy. No flaws here.


Being Holier Than Thou .... reminds me of a stick note someone had on their refrigerator:

"PLEASE ASK ALL OF YOUR QUESTIONS TO MY TEENAGER NOW WHILE HE STILL KNOWS EVERYTHING"


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> i notice a lot of you think it's stupid
> that i asked "can you walk your dog in center city
> off leash"?? considering we have a pet/companion
> dog he goes with us a lot. one day we're in town visiting
> ...


Really?? I mean not to nitpick or anything but really? you want me to believe you took your dog out and forgot to leash him? Has that ever happen to anybody else in this forum? Never happened to me, it's very basic like putting your shoes on...

And I don't see what's so wrong about people with less than perfect dogs giving advice - working through a dog's problem is what gives you the experience and knowledge how to solve that particular problem so why wouldn't I listen to someone like that?

Don't forget: Learn from the mistakes of others. You can’t live long enough to make them all yourself. -- Eleanor Roosevelt


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Wild Wolf said:


> Is it just me or does doggiedad take a "Holier-than-thou" viewpoint consistently?
> 
> I am perfect, by the way. So is my 4 month old puppy. No flaws here.


My puppy can walk on a tight rope, just saying.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

ayoitzrimz said:


> Really?? I mean not to nitpick or anything but really? you want me to believe you took your dog out and forgot to leash him? Has that ever happen to anybody else in this forum? Never happened to me, it's very basic like putting your shoes on...


Actually...:blush:.... I drove 5 hours in a truck to pick up a rescue pup...then drove 5 hours back to foster the pup for one night. I thought of everything...kennel, water, a few treats....but forgot a leash/collar. 

Luckily, the rescue lady had an extra collar, and I used the cord from my lap top as a leash for a couple of potty breaks. Rookie mistake, but a mistake made...and learned from. I now have an extra leash in the pocket on my seat in my truck.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

ayoitzrimz said:


> Really?? I mean not to nitpick or anything but really? you want me to believe you took your dog out and forgot to leash him? Has that ever happen to anybody else in this forum? Never happened to me, it's very basic like putting your shoes on...
> 
> And I don't see what's so wrong about people with less than perfect dogs giving advice - working through a dog's problem is what gives you the experience and knowledge how to solve that particular problem so why wouldn't I listen to someone like that?
> 
> Don't forget: Learn from the mistakes of others. You can’t live long enough to make them all yourself. -- Eleanor Roosevelt


I am trying to live long enough .........
The other day, my wife and I took Abby to the bike path for a walk and when we got there we found that each of us thought the other had grabbed the leash. Abby is excellent off leash but we got chastised by one jogger for not having her on a leash. Oh my, the GUILT !!!


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

There are leash laws for a reason. I am not afraid of dogs, but feel more secure when I see them being walked on leash, just imagine others who are not so sure about dogs. When I see a dog off leash and I'm with Dakota I am a little concerned that the owner does not have total voice control over the dog and really don't like to have to second guess this.

That said there is this one border collie that is never on leash and the owner does have excellent voice control of their dog.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

ayoitzrimz said:


> Really?? I mean not to nitpick or anything but really? you want me to believe you took your dog out and forgot to leash him? Has that ever happen to anybody else in this forum?


I've almost left the house without collar/leash before when Kaiser was sick and I was rushing to the e-vet but that's just getting him from the house to the car in which he isn't usually leashed anyway. Or on other occcasions when I thought his leash was already in the car. 

Actually making it out onto the street and walking before realizing you don't have a leash is a little suspicious to me.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> Actually making it out onto the street and walking before realizing you don't have a leash is a little suspicious to me.


I suppose it's better than walking into the street with your leash before realizing you forgot your dog............


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

PaddyD said:


> Being Holier Than Thou .... reminds me of a stick note someone had on their refrigerator:
> 
> "PLEASE ASK ALL OF YOUR QUESTIONS TO MY TEENAGER NOW WHILE HE STILL KNOWS EVERYTHING"


:laugh:

In response to doggiedad's "questionnaire" -

Yes, if you mean OB training. 

Yes, though they are intimidating at the door or fence. They are friendly and approachable to welcome guests, once those people are in the house.

It is illegal to walk a dog anywhere in public off leash in Denver. Fines are steep if AC catches you. If it were legal would I do it downtown in a crowd? No.

We don't do dog parks. 

Anja is reactive to other animals. She is an Alpha female who wants to boss other dogs. She would fight another female. She has over the top prey drive, which means if she could catch a small critter like a rabbit, cat, or squirrel, she would probably kill it. Conor likes most other dogs - however he was attacked by a Great Dane once, so anything which looks like one: all bets are off. He has moderate prey drive, which ramps up if his "sister" is around. 
________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Because I take my dogs everywhere with me, I have 2 leashes in my car at all times and 2 leashes inside my house. 

I have never gone somewhere and accidently forgot to leash them, I have had my male off leash numerous times but that's because I did it on purpose.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

lol maybe I was nit-picking a bit there  actually, we live in an apartment building in a large city (New York) and so I couldn't imagine a scenario when I even passed the apartment door and the dog didn't have a leash on. He is well behaved and can heel off-leash, but I would get ticketed in about 0.5 seconds lol


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> i didn't see where being perfect or having a perfect dog
> was in the question but from your answer
> all of us know your dog isn't close to perfect, good,
> non- reactive, etc.


Hahahaha!! BOTH of my dogs were older when I adopted them and they BOTH have issues, some are genetic, some are due to neglect and abuse. Everyone knows that because I come here for the ADVICE of those with EXPERIENCE resolving issues. However, as mentioned by many others, training and socializing does not necessarily cover ALL of their genetic woes. And the only advice I have really ever seen you give is to train and socialize. I too suggest you try a difficult dog for a change. Volunteer in a shelter for a day, volunteer at a shelter for a day, visit someone who foster's for a day and really truly SEE what so many of us deal with in REAL life. I rarely GIVE advice because I am still learning myself - learning how to manage a dog that I did not raise from a pup. I do however share, at times, my real life experiences in hopes that it might HELP others. 

Sometimes it seems that you live in a fairy tale world with your perfect dog that has never had an issue. Now that I think about it, I don't think we have EVER seen a picture of your dog! That also makes me think that you just like to come here to stir stuff up.

Your 'list' in your original post is unrealistic for so many of us which is no surprise given that you have faced no real challenges in raising your dog . Not that you care. So I have to agree with others who felt your list was rather condescending . 

Oh and by the way, DoggieDad, I happen to LIKE the fact that I am still learning and gaining life experiences with my dogs. I LIKE the Challenges they give me and it keeps me active and having fun.

Just out of curiosity, what do YOU do with your dog for FUN? Have you ever done anything *other* than train and socialize??

Speaking of forgetting the leash....I was so embarrassed the other day! I loaded up the crates in my truck, let the dogs out of the gate to 'load up' and we took off to get get nails trimmed. I get there, check in and go out to bring them in when I realize in the rush of getting them loaded up, I left their leashes hanging by the door at home. This would never have happened a year ago, but I now trust my imperfect dogs to go out the gate and load up without a leash! 

I will apologize to other readers of this forum and thread if I have offended anyone.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

it's totally you because i don't think that way but if i did
i wouldn't have a problem with it. you're not effected
by the way i think so what does it matter what i think
of myself or you???



Wild Wolf said:


> Is it just me or does doggiedad take a "Holier-than-thou" viewpoint consistently?
> 
> I am perfect, by the way. So is my 4 month old puppy. No flaws here.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> you're not effected
> by the way i think so what does it matter what i think
> of myself or you???


Yes we are all affected by the way you think when you post here. Makes me wonder if you "think" at all!


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Zisso said:


> Yes we are all affected by the way you think when you post here. Makes me wonder if you "think" at all!


True, what's the point of posting advice if you don't think
it will affect anyone? One would hope you are posting advice
in order to help/influence/affect someone.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

One ought to have good control over their dogs. I have a hard time with the idea that you simply forgot to leash the dog, whatever. I have a disease that causes me to drop things including leashes. My dogs are trained to come back to me and wait for me to gather the leash again if they feel it drop. If I unhook them, they have to be in perfect heel position unless I release them to go to my car. With the leash, the dog and I can be more relaxed. It is like an umbilical cord.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my dog is perfect with his imperfections. i'm the only one
who has a dog that you haven't seen a pic of?? you could think
that anyone is here to stir stuff up, couldn't you?? you're always
referring to my dog as perfect. thanks.

>>>> my list in my original post isn't unrealistic.
either your dog can do the things listed or they can't.
some of the people said their dogs could do the things listed
some said their dogs couldn't or they wouldn't try. doing
some of the things listed. i was looking for a simple answer,
either your dog could what was listed or it can't. there
was no judgement.<<<<

>>>> i'm sure the things i do with my dog isn't close
to fun compared to the things you do with your dogs.

>>>> we walk, swim, hike, gather for doggie play groups on 1,700 wooded acres <<<<
>>>> we go on 2 or 2.5 hour car rides to no where<<<
play retrieving games <<<<
>>>> unleash him in the toy isle of the toy store
and tell him "get a toy"<<<<
>>>> cuddles on the sofa or bed<<<<
>>>> does nothing but lays around sometimes <<<<
>>>> GF came hide in the woods and i'll send him to find her<<<<
>>>> can hide things indoors or outside and send him
to find them<<<<
>>>> following commands verbally or with hand signals
is fun for me when my dog does them. i guess he likes
doing them. there's no hesitation when asked to perform<<<<
>>>> meeting the mail man to get the mail for us or our neighbors<<<<
>>>> going to restaraunts<<<<
>>>> visiting people <<<<
>>>> hanging out on the sofa or the bed<<<<
>>>> going to the local watering hole<<<<
>>>> going to my job or my GF's job<<<
this is a short list of the fun things we do<<<<

when you have a dog that's trained fun is everywhere
and in most things you do.



Zisso said:


> >>>> Sometimes it seems that you live in a fairy tale world with your perfect dog that has never had an issue. Now that I think about it, I don't think we have EVER seen a picture of your dog! That also makes me think that you just like to come here to stir stuff up.<<<<
> 
> >>>> Your 'list' in your original post is unrealistic for so many of us which is no surprise given that you have faced no real challenges in raising your dog . Not that you care. So I have to agree with others who felt your list was rather condescending . <<<<
> 
> ...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

don't have a hard time over something so simple. i forgot to
take the leash with us. i left it in his apartment.
i taught my dog to picks things up if i drop them. i have no 
problem picking things up. i taught my dog to pick things up
for the fun of it.

sometimes when we're going out i'll go outside
and open the car door. i'll come inside and say
"get your leash". then i'll open the door and say
"go to the car" and my dog runs down the driveway
and jumps in the car. 



selzer said:


> One ought to have good control over their dogs. I have a hard time with the idea that you simply forgot to leash the dog, whatever.
> 
> I have a disease that causes me to drop things including leashes. My dogs are trained to come back to me and wait for me to gather the leash again if they feel it drop.
> 
> If I unhook them, they have to be in perfect heel position unless I release them to go to my car. With the leash, the dog and I can be more relaxed. It is like an umbilical cord.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't see how it's so unbelievable that someone would forget to grab a leash, especially if their dog was well trained, and in their home environment don't often need a leash. When Sasha and I are at my mom's house I almost never have her on leash in our yard, so one day when she was done going potty I decided to go to my grandparent's house so I just opened the car door and we got in; I had back all the way down the driveway before I realized that she was without leash. I went back and got it, obviously, but it happens.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Doggiedad, I can drive uptown, park my car, get the dog out of the back, and walk her off lead two blocks away, and say, OK GO TO MY CAR. She will turn and run all the way to my car and wait for me in the back waiting to be loaded. 

Yes, I did teach her this. God, I wish I did not. She waits for the release word, and when I say OK, she is off and running. She LOVES this. It is stupid and dangerous. It is perhaps the single worst trick I deliberately taught my dog. 

If you have a dog, you can train the dog. You can train the dog to walk on lead. You can train the dog to walk off lead. You can train the dog to walk through crowds. You can train the dog to clean up their toys. You can train the dog to fetch a ball. You can train the dog to bite a sleeve. I do not know what the big deal is. My list of things I train my dog to do will be different from your list. 

I do not understand your point. Do you think that people who have not met you list of requirements should not give advice? Or do you think we should give you kudos for creating a bond with your dog and training it? Do you think that if people have a problem with their dog that you do not have, that they are doing something wrong? 

I guess I just don't understand the purpose of this, as it is the kind of post, presented in such a way to set yourself up to be the recipient of some hard feelings one way or the other.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I don't see how it's so unbelievable that someone would forget to grab a leash, especially if their dog was well trained, and in their home environment don't often need a leash. When Sasha and I are at my mom's house I almost never have her on leash in our yard, so one day when she was done going potty I decided to go to my grandparent's house so I just opened the car door and we got in; I had back all the way down the driveway before I realized that she was without leash. I went back and got it, obviously, but it happens.


That is true, you can get in the vehicle and not realize that you don't have the leash. But if you are walking to the dog park. I am sorry, but ya got to know you have the leash on the dog or not. Most dog parks are in neighborhoods where leashes are required.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think you're funny. 



Zisso said:


> Yes we are all affected by the way you think when you post here. Makes me wonder if you "think" at all!


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> you give all of this advice concerning dogs
> but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?
> can people visit your home without your dog
> being reactive? can you walk your dog off leash
> ...


So far so good.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

WildWolf posted something about me having
a Hoilier-than-thou attitude. my resonse to WildWolf was
if i did have a hoilier-than-thou attitude i wouldn't have a problem
with it. what i think about myself doesn't affect WildWolf, you, Zisso
your dogs or anyone else. keep in mind it's what i think about myself. you're not affected by it. you're not affected by what people think of themselves or you. i could think the worst of you. how are you affected by that??

Zisso if you're affected by what people think of themselves or you
i understand you completely now. now, just so
you don't attack the dogs or jump off a bridge i'm sending
positive thoughts and vibes your way and my positive thoughts and vibes
are stronger than anyone's negative thoughts of you. 



Zisso said:


> Yes we are all affected by the way you think when you post here. Makes me wonder if you "think" at all!





PaddyD said:


> True, what's the point of posting advice if you don't think
> it will affect anyone? One would hope you are posting advice
> in order to help/influence/affect someone.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

for those of you that think my thread is stupid, unrealistic,
what's the point, condescending, etc. it surely lit things up.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> for those of you that think my thread is stupid, unrealistic,
> what's the point, condescending, etc. it surely lit things up.


If you were just trying to stir the pot, you succeeded.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

doggiedad said:


> for those of you that think my thread is stupid, unrealistic,
> what's the point, condescending, etc. it surely lit things up.


So, you were bored. 

Whatever floats your boat.


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## jennyp (Jun 18, 2011)

Doggiedad, I hope that some of these responses you're giving, espesially to Zisso, are suppose to be sarcastic. You're not actually that condescending in real life are you??


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

don't take things the wrong way to fit your point
of view. where did i say i'm trying to stir the pot.
you don't want me stirring the pot because i'm a lousy cook.
sometimes you have to stir the pot don't you? if you
didn't the stuff on the bottom would burn.  



PaddyD said:


> If you were just trying to stir the pot, you succeeded.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

I am new here and don't feel I can give much advice because I don't see the dogs and how the people act. I helped a friend with his dog and I could only do it by seeing what was going on myself. 

I agree sometimes the best advice comes from the people that have or had the "problem" dog. Not from the people that never had the problem to deal with. Always try and learn from others. 

To answer your question. 

But is your dog well trained and highly socializied?
2 of the 3 are. Yes I have a small dog that I have been working with and he is much much much better with strangers now. only barks a few time and then let's the strangers walk around. He needs to learn how to react better around strange dogs. That's his biggest problem.

can people visit your home without your dog
being reactive? They give a warning bark but except people right away. They sit to be pet too. The little one reacts he use to be really bad. Now he gets over it fast.

can you walk your dog off leash in a crowd or in center city? 
I do most all my training off leash it's not natural for a dog to be on leash. I want my dogs to listen no mater if on or off leash. Most of my walks are off leash walks. In a city center I could walk my older pit bull with no leash any where unless there was a pack of coyote. They are the only thing he goes after now. But In a place with lots of cars it is stupid not to use a leash.

Will your dog follow his commands when in the dog park? Yes. The young one we just got so give me some time on that. My other 2 are great the pit could care less if other dogs are around. I have been making a point to do training session with my little dog at the dog park. Its been helping with his little issues. He has been doing great he has come a long way. 

Is your dog reactive around other animals??
Yes every dog reacts to other animals it's just a matter of how they react to it. My old dog that pasted was good with chickens she was 100% chicken safe even when left alone with them. She would let them walk around her but she would react. She would watch them some times sniffing them but never ever went for them. 
The puppy gets really excited about little animals that run. My pitbull use to chase bears and coyotes he always came back. He still goes off when he see them. I can always get him to stop barking and chill out. I personally like that he warns us of the coyotes. Indy will sometimes chase little animals. But I have a parrot and they know not to touch her. The parrot landed right in front of both dogs and they never did anything.
If you don't ever let your dog react to it's environment you are not letting your dog be a dog. That can cause problems. 

No such thing as the perfect owner or perfect dog. No one is perfect. All we can do is try our best and learn from others.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

This thread had has 3,000 + views and a hundred + posts. I don't understand why. Then there is the one about homeopathy, lots of views lots of posts.
Maybe it starts controversy or something.
I see threads fairly regularly on GSD agression and think it is becoming more of a problem than in the past.
I tried two threads on aggression which I consider a serious topic and they pretty much went nowhere. It's not about me but I wonder if sometimes if old timers are tired of talking about some topics.
Remember the thread I think by Jax Mom about kids in restraunts. It went on for days covering breast feeding and a whole bunch of other stuff. 
I'm not implying all threads should be serious. It just puzzles me the ones that catch on sometimes.
Maybe threads that create a level of irritation catch on.
So I'm not entirely sure what this thread accomplished but it has been entertaining and got a lot of attention.
So kudos doggiedad.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Jack's Dad said:


> This thread had has 3,000 + views and a hundred + posts. I don't understand why. Then there is the one about homeopathy, lots of views lots of posts.
> Maybe it starts controversy or something.
> *I see threads fairly regularly on GSD agression and think it is becoming more of a problem than in the past.
> I tried two threads on aggression which I consider a serious topic and they pretty much went nowhere.* It's not about me but I wonder if sometimes if old timers are tired of talking about some topics.
> ...


Maybe because aggression is probably not something that can be fixed over the internet where people can't even see the dog with the issues...

Topics like this just spark interest. Something like aggression needs to be dealt with in real life and not over a message board.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i don't know why you don't understand threads
that are so easy to understand. i don't think most
people start a thread to irritate people. even though
you don't understand the threads or see what they accomplished
they were entertaining to you so you got something from them.



Jack's Dad said:


> This thread had has 3,000 + views and a hundred + posts. I don't understand why. Then there is the one about homeopathy, lots of views lots of posts.
> Maybe it starts controversy or something.
> I see threads fairly regularly on GSD agression and think it is becoming more of a problem than in the past.
> I tried two threads on aggression which I consider a serious topic and they pretty much went nowhere. It's not about me but I wonder if sometimes if old timers are tired of talking about some topics.
> ...


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Jack's Dad said:


> This thread had has 3,000 + views and a hundred + posts. I don't understand why. Then there is the one about homeopathy, lots of views lots of posts.
> Maybe it starts controversy or something.


This thread gives people an opportunity to talk about their dogs. Everyone loves to talk about their dogs yes? It's one of those threads where you don't have to be a breeder, it doesn't matter what line your dog comes from and no one has to defend or dispute the grand old standard. An all inclusive thread for those that want to answer the questions. 

I didn't see anything condescending about it like some others did byw. I didn't look at it as "_if your dogs aren't perfect you shouldn't give advice_" thread. (but I've been wrong before) Just thought doggiedad was curious and bored. 



Jack's Dad said:


> I tried two threads on aggression which I consider a serious topic and they pretty much went nowhere. It's not about me but I wonder if sometimes if old timers are tired of talking about some topics.


It's a great topic, not sure why they didn't go anywhere. 



Jack's Dad said:


> Remember the thread I think by Jax Mom about kids in restaurants. It went on for days covering breast feeding and a whole bunch of other stuff.
> I'm not implying all threads should be serious. It just puzzles me the ones that catch on sometimes.


You've got breasts, babies, people rights, whether or not kids are angels or devils and food all in one post. Seriously, I'm surprised it's not still an active thread!


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Maybe because aggression is probably not something that can be fixed over the internet where people can't even see the dog with the issues...
> 
> Topics like this just spark interest. Something like aggression needs to be dealt with in real life and not over a message board.


 Well all the people who come on the forum and ask what to do with their dog that just bit someone, or is dog aggressive, people aggressive, little kid aggressive and on and on apparently don't know they are wasting their time.
I mean why would you ask questions about your aggresive GSD on a GSD forum. Maybe they should ask the real life guy down the street.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lucy Dog said:


> Maybe because aggression is probably not something that can be fixed over the internet where people can't even see the dog with the issues...
> 
> Topics like this just spark interest. Something like aggression needs to be dealt with in real life and not over a message board.


Jack's threads were not about aggression in his dog, but what he perceives as a growing problem with aggression in dogs in general. An increase in threads where dogs bite children, bite multiple people, dog aggressive problems, etc. 

I think that the in part, people do not have concrete answers. I think others do not want to see the problem. Maybe others don't want to get into an argument about whether or not dogs who bite should be put down. 

I think that a dog-oriented internet site is an appropriate place to discuss the issue.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Jack's Dad said:


> Well all the people who come on the forum and ask what to do with their dog that just bit someone, or is dog aggressive, people aggressive, little kid aggressive and on and on apparently don't know they are wasting their time.
> I mean why would you ask questions about your aggresive GSD on a GSD forum. Maybe they should ask the real life guy down the street.


Or better yet... get a trainer who has experience dealing with dogs with aggression issues.

The truth is... there's only so much you can give in terms of advice from the internet. You can't see the dog, you can't see the owner, you can't see the situations that spark the aggression, you can't see anything. You don't know the people giving the advice and if they even know what they're talking about. 

I completely agree with you that aggression is a much more serious subject than if you are able to walk your dog off leash in high traffic public areas, but those topics only get so far because there's only so much you can do over the internet. With aggression that you can't handle yourself... you need to get a professional involved... not ask what to do from strangers over the internet who can't even see the dog or situation.

It's kind of like coming on here and asking something like.... "my dogs not acting himself, he seems sick, and I don't know what to do". So, what do you do? Do you expect someone to diagnose whatevers wrong or do you go see a vet? Why is serious aggression issues any different?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jack's Dad said:


> Well all the people who come on the forum and ask what to do with their dog that just bit someone, or is dog aggressive, people aggressive, little kid aggressive and on and on apparently don't know they are wasting their time.
> I mean why would you ask questions about your aggresive GSD on a GSD forum. Maybe they should ask the real life guy down the street.


Once the dog bites someone, then the people have this major wake up call. They suddenly realize Fido is not perfect or cute anymore when he bristles and growls. They have no idea what to do, so the go to the oracle of all knowledge and google dog bite or German Shepherd Bite or some such thing, and then they ask their question. 

What do I do? 

Some want to be told that the victim was in the wrong.

Some want to be given reassurance that their dog is not bad.

Some want to be given the sad news that the dog should be put down. 

Some want to know that there is a magic wand that can be waved, if the skip backwards around the kitchen table three times with their eyes closed shouting BAD DOG it will all go away.

Some want to know if they need Cesar or Gloria Stillwell. 

Some do not know the benefits of training or the existence of animal behaviorists.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

wake up and sniff the puppy poop. people aren't wasting their time
by asking questions. people probably are tired or bored
with answering "my dog is aggressive towards...... what should i do",
"my dog pees in the house and crate, what should i do", "my dog
tears up the house when i'm away what should i do",
"my dog wants to go out at 4:00 am what should i do",
"Jack's DaD doesn't understand why some threads have more
views or replies what should he do".



Jack's Dad said:


> Well all the people who come on the forum and ask what to do with their dog that just bit someone, or is dog aggressive, people aggressive, little kid aggressive and on and on apparently don't know they are wasting their time.
> I mean why would you ask questions about your aggresive GSD on a GSD forum. Maybe they should ask the real life guy down the street.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

selzer said:


> I think that the in part, people do not have concrete answers. I think others do not want to see the problem. Maybe others don't want to get into an argument about whether or not dogs who bite should be put down.


Or people don't agree and don't want to argue it again and again. As someone who is not just taking a sample off an aggression forum but is in the real world dealing with real dogs... shelter dogs at that who are supposedly not temperamentally sound.... I still see WAY more dogs without inappropriate aggression than with.

AND what Paul said.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lucy Dog said:


> Or better yet... get a trainer who has experience dealing with dogs with aggression issues.
> 
> The truth is... there's only so much you can give in terms of advice from the internet. You can't see the dog, you can't see the owner, you can't see the situations that spark the aggression, you can't see anything. You don't know the people giving the advice and if they even know what they're talking about.
> 
> ...


I think we are a large dog community -- large in numbers, not the size of the dog.

I think that we should try to address the overall problem of aggressive dogs in general. 

If not here, where? 

Is there anything we can do to combat the increasing problem of dog aggression incidents?

Jack is saying there is a big Blue Elephant in the middle of the room, what can we do about it? I have no idea how to deal with a big blue elephant. I certainly can't do anything about it myself. I am sure someone with blue elephant experience will come around and take care of the problem.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

selzer said:


> I think we are a large dog community -- large in numbers, not the size of the dog.
> 
> I think that we should try to address the overall problem of aggressive dogs in general.
> 
> ...


I thought it was the Pink Elephant?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

And to think I took the OP's question as a blanket statement. Not meaning the exact words stated, but curious if we practiced what we preached. I'm still suprised it ruffled feathers. 

Thanks doggiedad, it's been entertaining.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LaRen616 said:


> I thought it was the Pink Elephant?


Gosh, you're seeing pink??? Mine is blue, maybe we can get them together...


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

selzer said:


> I think we are a large dog community -- large in numbers, not the size of the dog.
> 
> I think that we should try to address the overall problem of aggressive dogs in general.
> 
> ...


Does anyone have experience with Pink Elephant issues?
That would be a big help to yours truly.
:crazy:


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> I thought it was the Pink Elephant?


I'd advise to send in a mouse. They always help when needing to rid your living room of those pesky elephants.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Dog aggression absolutely should be discussed here. If someone has a dog with aggression issues... sure, go ahead and ask.

All I'm trying to say is that you can't be surprised when the thread doesn't go 10 pages full of great advice. Most of the issues with regards to aggression has been discussed in detail already on this forum or any other dog forum. It might not be exact to someone elses situation, but from an internet standpoint, there's probably some very good tips out there.

By all means, discuss... just don't expect hundreds of posts when someone asks how to deal with their human aggressive dog. Again, it's not something that can or should be fixed over the internet.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Or better yet... get a trainer who has experience dealing with dogs with aggression issues.
> 
> The truth is... there's only so much you can give in terms of advice from the internet. You can't see the dog, you can't see the owner, you can't see the situations that spark the aggression, you can't see anything. You don't know the people giving the advice and if they even know what they're talking about.
> 
> ...


Obviously ther are new people who come on here and don't know what you do or they wouldn't ask these kind of questions. The subject could be food issues, aggression, health, breeding, training. If they knew what you suggest then they wouldn't ask.
GSDraven: I don't know what percentage of GSD's are aggressive but it seems to me the forum gets enough questions for it to be a worthwhile topic. I see it in dogs in real lif all the time. Not just GSD's. We have two in agility that have to do everything of to the side because of their dog aggression problems. Two out of eight is enough. And these are owners who work with their dogs. I don't have a problem with my dog so it won't harm me in anyway if people would rather discuss the cost of gas at Costco.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

yeppers, that's what i meant. people are sensitive. if the wind changes directions they're upset.



Lilie said:


> And to think I took the OP's question as a blanket statement. Not meaning the exact words stated, but curious if we practiced what we preached. I'm still suprised it ruffled feathers.
> 
> Thanks doggiedad, it's been entertaining.


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

I would like to think/hope that everyone who gives advice, lives the advice they give. However, it is sometimes not the case. 

I would say for the MOST part I can answer yes to all your questions. I really strive to have well behaved "breed ambassadors." I enjoy taking my dogs places and being commended on how well behaved they are. I take pride in myself and my dogs. I have put a lot of hours into training with both of my boys but they are still not perfect. Nor do I ever expect them to be perfect, but I would say 99% of the time I can control them in any given situation.

The problem lies with people who do nothing and allow the dogs to do as they please. There are more of "these people" than those who give advice and not follow it themselves.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I don't understand why everyone is feeding the trolls. It should be clear by now that doggiedad hardly ever contributes something that's actually advice, he just likes to stir the pot. And by the looks of this thread, he's definitely succeeding.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> Or people don't agree and don't want to argue it again and again. As someone who is not just taking a sample off an aggression forum but is in the real world dealing with real dogs... shelter dogs at that who are supposedly not temperamentally sound.... I still see WAY more dogs without inappropriate aggression than with.
> 
> AND what Paul said.


My dog has appropriate aggression. She's perfect.
*I'm *the one with inappropriate aggression, what should I do?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> My dog has appropriate aggression. She's perfect.
> *I'm *the one with inappropriate aggression, what should I do?


 
Send me $29.95 and I'll send you my new book, "My dog is perfect, but I'm a mess." 

Please allow 2-3 years for delivery. I write really slow and all I have at the moment is the title.


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Lilie said:


> Send me $29.95 and I'll send you my new book, "My dog is perfect, but I'm a mess."
> 
> Please allow 2-3 years for delivery. I write really slow and all I have at the moment is the title.


haha, sounds like a good book.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Lilie said:


> Send me $29.95 and I'll send you my new book, "My dog is perfect, but I'm a mess."
> 
> Please allow 2-3 years for delivery. I write really slow and all I have at the moment is the title.


The check is in the mail. Pony express.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Jack's Dad said:


> Obviously ther are new people who come on here and don't know what you do or they wouldn't ask these kind of questions. The subject could be food issues, aggression, health, breeding, training. If they knew what you suggest then they wouldn't ask.
> GSDraven: I don't know what percentage of GSD's are aggressive but it seems to me the forum gets enough questions for it to be a worthwhile topic. I see it in dogs in real lif all the time. Not just GSD's. We have two in agility that have to do everything of to the side because of their dog aggression problems. Two out of eight is enough. And these are owners who work with their dogs. I don't have a problem with my dog so it won't harm me in anyway if people would rather discuss the cost of gas at Costco.


Agreed - it's definitely a worthwhile topic, that's why we have an entire section of this forum dedicated to the issue.



PaddyD said:


> My dog has appropriate aggression. She's perfect.
> *I'm *the one with inappropriate aggression, what should I do?


Start a thread.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> My dog has appropriate aggression. She's perfect.
> *I'm *the one with inappropriate aggression, what should I do?


Darn. Everyone beat me to the witty replies. 



Lilie said:


> Send me $29.95 and I'll send you my new book, "My dog is perfect, but I'm a mess."
> 
> Please allow 2-3 years for delivery. I write really slow and all I have at the moment is the title.


Do I get a royalty for prompting Paddy to ask the question?


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> Darn. Everyone beat me to the witty replies.
> 
> 
> 
> Do I get a royalty for prompting Paddy to ask the question?


It's a good thing she's a slow writer because I am a slow reader.
I can only read things that are written in long hand or typed by 
a hunt-and-peck typist.

:crazy:


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> Do I get a royalty for prompting Paddy to ask the question?


I will dedicate the book to you....


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Lilie said:


> I will dedicate the book to you....


Can I write a chapter? Maybe it could be a collaborative book lol

I can surely provide inside as to how much of a mess I am and how awesome my pups are


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

This thread appears to be pretty well derailed. Dammit, doggiedad, I just want to know why you write like that!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

suzzyq01 said:


> Can I write a chapter? Maybe it could be a collaborative book lol
> 
> I can surely provide inside as to how much of a mess I am and how awesome my pups are


Now, we're talking!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

you give all of this advice concerning dogs


> but is your dog well trained and highly socializied?


Yes, they are well trained and socialized out the waazoo.



> can people visit your home without your dog
> being reactive?


It's a pack of five dogs. They will react once you knock on the door but I can call them off and put them outside. 


> can you walk your dog off leash
> in a crowd or in center city?


She could, I've done that before. Yukon can too. Judge, not so much, he'd be all over the place. 


> will your dog follow his commands when in the dog park?


Absolutely. People are always amazed at that. 



> is your dog reactive around other animals??


Usually she isn't.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Lilie, please as a favor to me, could you write your book in DoggieDad format? The haiku style is starting to grow on me.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

AbbyK9 said:


> I don't understand why everyone is feeding the trolls. It should be clear by now that doggiedad hardly ever contributes something that's actually advice, he just likes to stir the pot. And by the looks of this thread, he's definitely succeeding.


Agreed. 

myself the haiku style and lack of grammar and punctuation
is annoying
i don't know what thats about exactly
i know his dogs are perfect and thats awesome
im also awesome
and i have a pink and purple polka dotted elephant
in the backyard
it poops lavender ice cream


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

show me where i didn't give advice?? don't be upset
or afraid of the ripples in the creek because a rock is skipped.



AbbyK9 said:


> I don't understand why everyone is feeding the trolls. It should be clear by now that doggiedad hardly ever contributes something that's actually advice, he just likes to stir the pot. And by the looks of this thread, he's definitely succeeding.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my writing derailed the thread???



wildo said:


> This thread appears to be pretty well derailed. Dammit, doggiedad, I just want to know why you write like that!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

>>> show me the lack of grammar and punctuation.<<<<

>>> i'm not sure why you and a few of the other members
think my dog is perfect.<<<<



chelle said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> >>>>myself the haiku style and lack of grammar and punctuation
> ...


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> >>> show me the lack of grammar and punctuation.<<<<
> 
> >>> i'm not sure why you and few other people
> think my dogs are perfect.<<<<


Since you asked!!!!!  (Personally, I don't care.. it's a forum... many people have bad grammar; I'm just a crazy grammar and punctuation person.) See bolded, underlined and in italics below:

*s*how me the lack of grammar and punctuation.<<<<

>>> *i*'m not sure why you*,* and (_-insert-)_ *a* few other people*,*
think my dogs are perfect.<<<<

I think we may believe that because you never post having any issues or problems. That is simply unrealistic to anyone who has ever raised a dog. I'm not a dog trainer or even close, but have had enough dogs to know there are issues of some kind with every new pup. 

We have no idea whether or not your dogs or perfect. We only know YOU say your dogs are perfect. Heck, I think we'd all LOVE to see even a single pic of your dogs!


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

chelle said:


> Agreed.
> 
> myself the haiku style and lack of grammar and punctuation
> is annoying


Seriously? Your infatuation with grammar and punctuation is hilarious. Doggiedad has perfect dogs and you are the perfect English teacher. Sorry if I made any grammatical errors in writing this.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I give up...not worth another minute of my time...


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Seriously? Your infatuation with grammar and punctuation is hilarious. Doggiedad has perfect dogs and you are the perfect English teacher. Sorry if I made any grammatical errors in writing this.


Ok. Now I understand why you have so many issues on this forum. 



Zisso said:


> I give up...not worth another minute of my time...


Ditto, agreed.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Well, you guys can argue back and forth all you want, but it is for naught, for *I* have the most perfect dogs of all! 

And I am so confident in their perfection, I hardly ever need to mention it.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i started a thread once stating something like
"do you have a dog with no problems" many people answered they have dogs with no problems. i also don't consider a lot of things
as an issue.

you can't show me 1 post that i've written where i say my dogs
are perfect. 

Chelle, start a thread and ask how many people have
a dog or dogs with problems, issues.



chelle said:


> I think we may believe that because you never post having any issues or problems. That is simply unrealistic to anyone who has ever raised a dog. I'm not a dog trainer or even close, but have had enough dogs to know there are issues of some kind with every new pup.
> 
> We have no idea whether or not your dogs or perfect. We only know YOU say your dogs are perfect. Heck, I think we'd all LOVE to see even a single pic of your dogs!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

doggiedad said:


> my writing derailed the thread???


Nope, that's not what I said. I viewed the thread as derailed when there was a whole page worth of comments about people wanting to write a book, etc, etc. You never will give up your secret on your writing style, will you? Bummer- that's the only reason I kept up on these 19 pages... I do still hold a glimmer of hope though. :fingerscrossed:


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

chelle said:


> myself the haiku style and lack of grammar and punctuation
> is annoying
> i don't know what *thats* about exactly


When you call someone out on their grammar, it's usually best to proof your own. :thumbup:


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

wildo said:


> When you call someone out on their grammar, it's usually best to proof your own. :thumbup:


 Wow you missed the point. I was trying to write in his style, not mine.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

While he can be a pain in the behind... I like doggiedad. He's most definitely not the worst person on this forum. There are others that also have a talent to derail pretty much any topic out there.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I like doggieDad too . 
He's unique and I like his style.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

chelle said:


> Ok. Now I understand why you have so many issues on this forum.


I have issue's on this forum? Look in the mirror sweetie.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> While he can be a pain in the behind... I like doggiedad. He's most definitely not the worst person on this forum. There are others that also have a talent to derail pretty much any topic out there.


:thumbup:


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> i started a thread once stating something like
> "*do you have a dog with no problems*" many people answered they have dogs with no problems. i also don't consider a lot of things
> as an issue.
> 
> ...


I'm just going to mention that, that sentence actually is improper English. It SHOULD be....

"Do you have a dog _*without any*_ problems_*?*_"


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

chelle said:


> Wow you missed the point. I was trying to write in his style, not mine.


thats vs that's... it's "that's" as in "that is". You missed the apostrophe between the t and the s, but what's with all the grammar corrections? 



Mrs.K said:


> While he can be a pain in the behind... I like doggiedad. He's most definitely not the worst person on this forum. There are others that also have a talent to derail pretty much any topic out there.


Me too... I think he's pretty funny. I like all the different personalities we have here... doggiedad is just one of them. I definitely don't think he's a troll unless someone really wasted the last couple years and 7,000+ posts to troll a message board.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

chelle said:


> Since you asked!!!!!  (Personally, I don't care.. it's a forum... many people have bad grammar; I'm just a crazy grammar and punctuation person.) See bolded, underlined and in italics below:
> 
> *s*how me the lack of grammar and punctuation.<<<<
> 
> ...


I kind of disagree with the bolded section. I have raised many dogs too. Some of them have had issues. Most of them have not. I guess it may depend on what you are labeling issues. Chewing left slippers (Milla's issue), I suppose some might consider that an issue, but I figure the pups have teeth and will chew if you give them access to chewable items. Not an issue so much as poor management or lack of better appropriate chewable items. So if you expect youngsters to jump up, bite, chew, bark and dig, than those are no longer issues, they are normal age-appropriate behaviors that can be trained out or managed. 

When I think of issues, I think of things like reactive to children, dogs, men with baseball caps, etc.; or shutting down in training; fearful or reactive to loud noises; inappropriate aggressiveness/biting beyond the land shark stage; submissive urination, separation anxiety, and other serious issues, many pups have none of these problems.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Lucy Dog said:


> thats vs that's... it's "that's" as in "that is". You missed the apostrophe between the t and the s, but what's with all the grammar corrections?


You missed the point as well. I was purposefully trying to omit all punctuation.

Funny, for the prior however many pages, many were making all kinds of fun over the writing style, how they'd write a book, this and that... and I make a comment and for some reason, you cannot seem to understand that I was simply copying his style.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

selzer said:


> I kind of disagree with the bolded section. I have raised many dogs too. Some of them have had issues. Most of them have not. I guess it may depend on what you are labeling issues. Chewing left slippers (Milla's issue), I suppose some might consider that an issue, but I figure the pups have teeth and will chew if you give them access to chewable items. Not an issue so much as poor management or lack of better appropriate chewable items. So if you expect youngsters to jump up, bite, chew, bark and dig, than those are no longer issues, they are normal age-appropriate behaviors that can be trained out or managed.
> 
> When I think of issues, I think of things like reactive to children, dogs, men with baseball caps, etc.; or shutting down in training; fearful or reactive to loud noises; inappropriate aggressiveness/biting beyond the land shark stage; submissive urination, separation anxiety, and other serious issues, many pups have none of these problems.


Okay. Semantics. A difference in definition.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I have issue's on this forum? Look in the mirror sweetie.


On one of your crazy posts, I somewhat defended you. Later in that thread, someone (wise) said you need to be careful who you defend.

I understand that now.

Oh and "issue's" above should be "issues." Also there should be a comma after "mirror."


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Personal issues can be discussed in PM's. Doesn't look like anyone else has anything to add to the original subject, so thread closed.


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