# Just ohio or what?



## wrenny (Sep 20, 2007)

I was searching petfinder for english bulldogs and then decided to do GSDs(hestitating because I know I would go see some then) but theres like 1 english bulldog in ohio compared to unlimited amounts of GSDs. Over 30 within 20 miles of me. This is crazy.

All these dogs in shelters is crazy. Why can't the government do something about it or regulate it? Am I the only one thinks if I was a millionaire I would buy some big boatload property and just stay at home saving these dogs. Is there any rich entertainer out there that donates to any dog rescue? I understand lots donate for children and cancer but what about the pets that help those children and cancer patients? Bah

Just a random vent. It's just hard to look at rescue GSDs and know you can't help them all.


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## fourdogsrule (May 10, 2007)

I agree with you and have noticed that as well. I don't know what is wrong with people now a days. I always say to myself why do they even get a dog when they can't even seem to do what's best for the dog. Its just so heartbreaking and people wonder why the GSD's have such a bad rep.......


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

Ohio has a lot of puppy mills and BYBs. They dump what they can't sell quickly or breed. They are also not selective about who they sell to - the color green means more than finding the right person/family for the dog.

Fortunately, Ohio also has a large network of GSD and other breed specific rescuers. Since they do, a number of the dogs are saved, but thousands are not. Until the mills are shut down and the AKC stops registering any dog for a fee, this won't change anytime soon.


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## fourdogsrule (May 10, 2007)

Yea, Thats the only bad part....


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Thanks for the vent. Ohio and farther south. I just took in my first rescue last Saturday. The dog was transported, along with three other Shepherds from Alabama all the way to Wisconsin.

I just don't get it. I provided comments on another post questioning why so much of this was going on. I would think the dollars that go into transporting, fostering and eventually placing these dogs could be as well be spent upgrading the programs in Ohio or whatever state is transporting a large number of German Shepherd dogs. 

As for my rescue, this shy, fearful 14 month old female is making substantial progress every day, and under no circustances should have been scheduled to be killed.

As for donors, yes, there is one old gentleman that has donated millions to the Wisconsin Humane Society, and they take in as many as sixty or more dogs at a time. The guy loves German Shepherds, and if you ever visit Milwaukee walk into the humane society and note the large plaque of a GSD on the wall.


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## CindyM (Mar 20, 2007)

My biggest dream is to win the lotto and buy a huge peice of land and save all of the dogs that I could!

There's some celebrities that help - Off the top of my head there's Pam Anderson and Simon Cowell... And Sarah Mclaughlin does the aspca commercials... hmmm I know there's more but i'm drawing a blank about now!

Oh, and I was watching Disney Channel the other day and one of the young actresses was urging others to get involved in the community and ask their parents if they could help with an animal organization.

At least it's a start...


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Skye'sMomOhio has a lot of puppy mills and BYBs. They dump what they can't sell quickly or breed. They are also not selective about who they sell to - the color green means more than finding the right person/family for the dog.


 What makes you think these dogs are being turned in by their breeders? Most all the GSDs I have seen in shelters are untrained adolescent to adults and owner turn ins or strays. I rarely ever have even seen littermate purebred puppies listed in a shelter, let alone litter after litter of these supposed dumped due to not selling puppies. 

AKC doesn't "regsiter any dog for a fee". The dogs must be from AKC registered parents, the breeder must be able to provide proof of keeping paperwork and males used over a certain amount of times must be DNA'd. AKC also has little to nothing to do with the dogs in shelters. Their job is not to imply the dogs they have registered are of any certain quality, just that they are X breed and have a pedigree on file with the organization and to sanction (not fund) dog shows. They do quite a lot more than that in addition that is above and beyond their function as a resgistry such as fund health research, education and fighting off anti-pet legislation. 

Also FWIW many commercial breeders no longer use AKC but use organizations which more flexible registration rules and commercial breeder discounts such as APRI. 

The people ultimately responsible for the majority of GSDs in shelters is the dog's former owners who bought a puppy or dog that they were unable to properly raise and/or care for.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Wow, that's quite a plug for the AKC and all those "responsible" breeders.

In fact, breeders are certainly partially responsible for the vast numbers of puppies and adult dogs in shelters. The breeders are selling their dogs to "the former owners who bought a puppy or dog that they were unable to properly raise and/or care for." That's because the vast majority of breeders don't care where their dogs are going and don't adopt out with spay/neuter contracts and return contracts. You show up with your money, buy the dog and you're on you're way. 

And, btw, puppy mills are breeders! And their goal is to breed/sell as many dogs as possible. And many puppies coming out of those puppy mills are AKC registered. And that means big business for the AKC. And the AKC consistently fights against tighter regulations against puppy mills because they believe dogs are property and people have the right to decide what they're going to do with their own property, how much property they can have and how many litters their property can have.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

There used to be a rescue (non-GSD) who actually posted the names of the breeders who declined to take back their pups. The rescue diligently contacted breeders when they could be found to inform them of the fate of their dogs and in a majority of cases, the breeders would not take the dogs back. These were NOT BYBs operations.

dd


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Whoa, want a rant. So what is your point.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

> Quote: What makes you think these dogs are being turned in by their breeders?


My point is, if the breeders were responsible, they would take the pups back. Their buyers may be doing the "dumping" but if they decline to take the pup when they are contacted, they are not a responsible breeder.

dd


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

dd - I think Timbers response was to someone else.









A Great Dane rescue in Cincinnati also posts the names of breeders/kennels that do not take their dogs back. I think that is a great thing to do. 

BOWWOWWOW - Thanks. I appreciate the points you made. 

Agilegsd - If you think all breeders in Ohio or any state are reputable, you need to do some research. Ohio is one of the worst offenders with puppymills. And while there many great kennels, there are also tons of inexperienced, uncaring BYBs - or Pups for Bucks.


Of course there great dogs AKC registered. But if you think AKC papers always mean the dog is well bred, that's a stretch. One of the trainers I work with was recently given a young poodle. Sweet little thing and smart as a whip.

The owners walked into her store and asked if she knew anyone who would take it. They bought it a "pet store." They said she could have her AKC papers, too if she didn't mind that the dog was bichon on the papers. (Which is what they thought they bought.)

Guess the puppy mill that supplied the pup to the store was careless about paper work. Oh well - it's AKC registered.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Skye'sMomAgilegsd - If you think all breeders in Ohio or any state are reputable, you need to do some research. Ohio is one of the worst offenders with puppymills. And while there many great kennels, there are also tons of inexperienced, uncaring BYBs - or Pups for Bucks.


 I live in Ohio and I really don't think it is considered "one of the worst" for puppy mills but I could be wrong. Do you have any info?

I also am curious if you can provide me with some links to all these GSD puppies that re currently in shelters in Ohio because their breeders couldn't sell them. That just hasn't been my experience at all with finding GSDs in shelters. 

There are "good" anmd "bad" breeders every where. I am just not of the opinion that restrictive breeding laws are appropriate for any reason.



> Originally Posted By: Skye'sMomOf course there great dogs AKC registered. But if you think AKC papers always mean the dog is well bred, that's a stretch. One of the trainers I work with was recently given a young poodle. Sweet little thing and smart as a whip.


 Can you show me where I said AKC dogs are all well bred? In fact I said AKC is not an indictation of quality and does not claim to be.



> Originally Posted By: Skye'sMomhe owners walked into her store and asked if she knew anyone who would take it. They bought it a "pet store." They said she could have her AKC papers, too if she didn't mind that the dog was bichon on the papers. (Which is what they thought they bought.)
> Guess the puppy mill that supplied the pup to the store was careless about paper work. Oh well - it's AKC registered.


 How do you know the "papers" where from AKC? Many petstores these days no longer have AKC registered dogs, as commercial breeders have largely moved towards APRI, CKC and the other commercial breeder registries. 

That said, even if they were AKC papers they may not have come in with the poodle puppy. I have heard of stores or brokers holding papers of puppies that die and matching them up with unregistered puppies they get in. I hope that the people reported them to AKC for it. Certainly people get away with falsely registering dogs with AKC and other organizations - stuff happens. It isn't even just an issue with dogs either. A big name llama breeder was banned a few years ago after it was discovered by the llama registry that he was crossing alpaca with his llamas to get better fiber. Unethical people will always find ways to be unethical, no matter what subject you are dealing with.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowWow, that's quite a plug for the AKC and all those "responsible" breeders.


 What I posted about AKC was facts. Do you feel that all breeders are bad or are somehow responsible for dogs being in shelters?



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow In fact, breeders are certainly partially responsible for the vast numbers of puppies and adult dogs in shelters. The breeders are selling their dogs to "the former owners who bought a puppy or dog that they were unable to properly raise and/or care for." That's because the vast majority of breeders don't care where their dogs are going and don't adopt out with spay/neuter contracts and return contracts. You show up with your money, buy the dog and you're on you're way.


So at what point is an owner responsible for the choices they make with their dog? 



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowAnd, btw, puppy mills are breeders!


 So are people who produce show dogs, working dogs, performance dogs, the next generation of any given breed, healthy/sound pets. 



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowAnd the AKC consistently fights against tighter regulations against puppy mills


 Like I said, someone has to stick up for breeders. What makes you think most of these "regulations" are aimed at puppy mills? Are you aware that commerial breeders (or puppy mills) already have to be USDA liscensed and are already regulated by the goverment?



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow because they believe dogs are property and people have the right to decide what they're going to do with their own property, how much property they can have and how many litters their property can have.


 I totally agree with that. I hope to always own my dogs and never be their "guardian". It has nothing to do with my personal feelings about my dogs or my relationship with them. It is very important to anyone who wants to continue to have dogs, choose what dogs they want or breed dogs that we remain dogs owners.

Did anyone check out the links I posted?


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## denwil2007 (Apr 15, 2007)

I would also like to know where ohio gets this rep. I've spent a year + looking for pb gsds and other dogs at the local NE Ohio shelters. I rarely see anthing that looks PB, mostly people who did not spay/neuter there pets and wound up with mix breeds. Rules are cool but most of these dogs are mutts, they're not coming from breeders, BYB or any other sort.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: chasethedogI would also like to know where ohio gets this rep. I've spent a year + looking for pb gsds and other dogs at the local NE Ohio shelters. I rarely see anthing that looks PB, mostly people who did not spay/neuter there pets and wound up with mix breeds. Rules are cool but most of these dogs are mutts, they're not coming from breeders, BYB or any other sort.


WHAT?????? Where on earth have you been looking? You have some of the most overwhelmed pounds right in your area: Mahoning, Stark, Trumbull, Cuyahoga, Columbiana--there are pb gsds in those shelters all of the time. I spent 2 months looking at Ohio shelters for dogs and was overwhelmed with the number of pb gsds in the shelters. In southern Ohio there are SO many pb gsds in shelters and rescues. Some of them are still there 4 months later! And the gsd rescues in northern Ohio don't seem to have any trouble finding dogs to pull. 

Breeders don't often turn dogs into shelters, you're right. When they do it is because they can't sell them all, didn't mean for their dogs to breed in the first place or because the dog has a health problem they can't deal with. But thousands of pb, unspeutered dogs end up in pounds every day in Ohio and most are never reclaimed. So the link to the breeders is indirect but it's certainly there.


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## denwil2007 (Apr 15, 2007)

Sorry, haven't had that experience. What I have seen listed as PB, look more like mixes when I've gone to visit. Maybe I was there in the off season. 

I was just at Valley View three weeks ago looking with a friend. The only thing I saw there that looked remotely PB was a yellow lab and a toy poodle.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I have seen TONS of Shepherds in all parts of OH.

Have you been looking on Petfinder or just stopping by shelters? I can see if you're just going to shelters that on any given day they might not have what you're looking for but if you look on Petfinder you should see plenty of choices within an afternoon's drive.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowBreeders don't often turn dogs into shelters, you're right. When they do it is because they can't sell them all, didn't mean for their dogs to breed in the first place or because the dog has a health problem they can't deal with. But thousands of pb, unspeutered dogs end up in pounds every day in Ohio and most are never reclaimed. So the link to the breeders is indirect but it's certainly there.


 Glad we've cleared up the misconception that there are all kinds of breeder turn-in dogs at shelters









As for the thousands of purebred GSDs ending up in Ohio shelters everyday - can you point me towards where you got that number? I have no idea if that is accurate or not, just asking. GSDs are one of the more common breeds to end up in shelters, of course there is a larger population of GSDs then most breeds in general. 

Petfinder certainly makes it difficult to search for PB dogs, as there is often a lot of poor IDs and you can't search for purebreds only. So any breed search you do you end up with a huge number of mixes of that breed and a good number of dogs who don't look remotely like the breed, as well as purebreds. Was very frustrating to weed through when we were looking to adopt our corgi.


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## denwil2007 (Apr 15, 2007)

Pet finder is a crapshot. Most people claim that anything with a b&t marking and erect ear is a gsd or gsd mix. I actually did real foot work at Valley View, Berea, Lake, Geagua, Humane Society, Euclid and a breed rescue find of mines through the GSDCNO. 

I'm just not seeing these thousands of dogs. 
It does seem like the ones listed here come from the same counties over and over. Maybe theres a bad BYB or puppy mill somewhere in that county?


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

What's your general location, what are you looking to adopt (size, age, gender, color preference), and how far are you willing to drive? 

Maybe we can help.

There are a lot of "shepherd" mixes on Petfinder but loads of purebreds as well.


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## denwil2007 (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanks. 

I'm not looking anymore. Since I couldn't find anyone I actually wound up contacting a breeder. 

But when the time is right, I know I can come to the board and find my new special someone


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: Glad we've cleared up the misconception that there are all kinds of breeder turn-in dogs at shelters


I see a fair number. There's a puppy miller that dumps off his "used up" females loose in the road near the shelter. There have been many many small time or one time breeders who drop off whatever didn't sell. The other day when I was in Lexington Humane Society trying to eval the two purebred adult shepherds, someone dropped off 2 purebred 7 week old Golden Retriever puppies; the 2 last of a litter of 12. I recently had a foster who was surrendered to a vet clinic we work with to be euthanized (they called us instead thank goodness) just because she had demodex. The breeder had taken her back the first two times the dog got returned but that last time she had a new litter on the ground (from the same parents who produced the dog in question) and didn't "have space" anymore. Not a shelter dump but still...

But I'd agree that more of the purebred dogs we see in shelters were surrendered or abandoned by the owners or are the mixed breed offspring of purebred pets and in either case, there was a breeder back there somewhere selling unaltered animals, not screening, and not following up.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: pupresq
> But I'd agree that more of the purebred dogs we see in shelters were surrendered or abandoned by the owners or are the mixed breed offspring of purebred pets and in either case, there was a breeder back there somewhere selling unaltered animals, not screening, and not following up.


 I'd say the majority of mixes are not first generation (have purebred parents), although some appear to be. Do ever feel the dog's owner is responsible for the chouces they make for their dog?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

AgileGSD,

This thread was started to discuss why there are so many purebred gsds in Ohio shelters and how frustrating that is. There are many puppy mills in Ohio and also lots of other irresponsible breeders of german shepherds. There are also irresponsible owners. That is a fact. 

There are many of us on here who are trying to get these dogs out of shelters, into reputable rescues and then into good homes with responsible owners. Since this board doesn't allow posting of gsd mixes we are only talking about pb gsds. If you would like to help us in finding these dogs good homes or educating breeders and owners about responsibly caring for their animals then we welcome you to join us. Check out the Urgent section to see a small sampling of the pb gsds in Ohio shelters. Perhaps you will find one that you'd like to adopt or foster for a rescue. 

My new guy, Rafi, is from Ohio and he is an amazing dog. Before I adopted him I found about 20 other gsds in Ohio that looked great too.


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## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

Ohio and Georgia seem to have ALOT of gsd's in shelters. Just visit the rescue urgent section of this board and you will see all of them. These states need to crack down on puppy mills. If that wasnt bad enough most of these dogs are heartworm positive to boot!


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: Do ever feel the dog's owner is responsible for the chouces they make for their dog?


I think breeders, be they mills or anyone else, who sell put unaltered dogs into the general population without adequately screening the buyers bear some responsibility. I think shelters and rescues who do the same thing - S/N contracts with no follow up bear some responsibility.

I think owners who allow their pets to reproduce putting more dogs out into the population bear some responsibility. I think both owners and breeders (who are also owners) who dump their dogs bear some responsbility. 

The ones who DON'T bear any responsibility? The dogs, ironically the ones who actually suffer for the poor choices made by everyone else. 

There are A LOT of PB dogs in shelters. Unlike most mixes (though not all certainly), someone actually intentionally called those PB dogs into being and then didn't look out for what they had created. There's plenty of responsibility to go around and plenty of different ways to attack the problem - and as long as these dogs are dying in these numbers, people who care about dogs - not just their own dogs, but dogs - really need to be looking at all of them.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

For me personally, I feel as my dog's owner I am responsible for them. What they eat, how they are trained and what medical they get is all on me. Their breeders, to be honest have little to do with their care once they came to live with me, not because they don't care but because they are MY dogs.

I would take back dogs from my breedings (as would the breeders of my dogs) if need be but I don't feel that I am responsible if their owners don't hold up their end of the bargain in dog ownership. You can screen homes all you want 9and believe me I do) but in the end, it is hard to really KNOW what a person is really like. That goes for rescues AND breeders alike. 

I rescued an Aussie who had a well known show breeder that wouldn't take her back. I have told everyone in Aussies that I know about my contact with this breeder because I felt she SHOULD take the dog back or at least, help place her as she was quite a distance from me. However, in the end the &%^$&! past two owners of the dog were ultimately responsible for her unhappy life prior to my taking her and her needing to be "rescued" to begin with. They were irresponsible owners and they didn't care that the dog deserved a better life. Luckily the dog now has a great life









What sort of laws does one feel are called for to "crack down on puppy mills"?


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## denwil2007 (Apr 15, 2007)

The same ones that restrict decent breeders make restrictions on puppy mills.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Which is why reputable breeders need to distance themselves and create their own coalitions separate from those groups and their money, just like reputable rescues need to distance themselves from ones that are not. 

Some GSDs in Ohio-3/4/08 shelters(will be out of date when their PF pages are updated):
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=10164609 (senior in rescue)
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=10344179
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=10300150
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=10346844
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7974888 (says mix-debatable)
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=10343912
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=10274451

Plus others in rescue...


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## denwil2007 (Apr 15, 2007)

Imagine that the same reputable breeders have puppies that end up in these shelters, unknown to them. I supposed if all reputable breeders put microchips in there dogs, those that were owner turn ins would find there way back to them.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Yes, they would. Microchipping and/or tattooing is an important part of responsible breeding IMO, as is not only the willingness but the desire to stand behind any of their dogs who find themselves homeless.

Sadly, that's not as common as we'd all wish.


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## denwil2007 (Apr 15, 2007)

I think it would be a good idea perhaps to begin to recommend this to our breeder friends. The chips are relatively cheep and easy to insert. Isn't there something in Canada about all dogs being chipped before being sold? I wonder if they have similar problems.

By the way, did anyone see that story on forclosures in Ohio affecting the amount of dogs in shelters?


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