# Send away tips please



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I'm a bit confused ( naturally) but during a send away and the dog is at a distance and you command it to down....should the dog down looking away from the handler or looking at the handler? I received good advice awhile ago on send outs and the dog has it down fairly good but now that I started incorporating a down at any point in the send away... my dog downs but ends up looking and lining its body back towards me...essentially doing a 180. If this is incorrect...are there any tips on teaching the dog to down pointed in the same direction that I sent her away instead of turning back toward me? Not that it is significant in our pursuits but our backyard " IPO sessions" keep both of us learning and training together which is great fun and the dog enjoys it as much as I do.

SuperG


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

It is not incorrect. At club level, you will not be docked any points if the dog turns to look at you (most dogs will do this).

At higher levels of competition, all the dogs are at such a high-level of performance, that the judges end up getting very nit-picky about the smallest things, like whether the dog downs in a straight line, etc.

To train a dog to down looking down the field, some people throw a ball, and down the dog while he is chasing it. Gryff will down straight, focused straight ahead if I do the send-out this way, but this has not transfered to downing straight when doing a traditional send-out with the reward out of sight. 

Maybe others will have some tips that can help.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about the dog turning to face you while going down.. 

Most will do it this way, even at the higher levels...


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

If you really wanted to have her face away, you could probably separate it from the send out for a while and just teach her to down from basic while facing the toy, then release her from that position to go get it. Then start taking steps back away from her before you release her. 

The turning towards you though, really shows her attention and desire to follow your commands. I would prefer that because the couple times I've seen dogs not turn back, they didn't hold the down. They broke when the handler approached.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

As always...good advice and info...thanks.

The expressed observations that most dogs will do this is reassuring as well as Steve's comment ....
" The turning towards you though, really shows her attention and desire to follow your commands."...perhaps something I have overlooked or maybe Steve is being kind...anyway, I guess what I was striving for was the same "hit the dirt skidding on their stomach" down that they can do when you are in a running heel with them and down them as you continue running away....but am happier that I am somewhat close to the standard.

One last question..perhaps ignorant...but is this particular command and control discipline ( send away with a commanded down) of one's dog in the IPO world have a reason to it besides command and control? I have my own ideas why this discipline exists in the competitive world but am curious of others thoughts.


SuperG


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> One last question..perhaps ignorant...but is this particular command and control discipline ( send away with a commanded down) of one's dog in the IPO world have a reason to it besides command and control? I have my own ideas why this discipline exists in the competitive world but am curious of others thoughts.


I'm not sure, there could be more to it then this, but I think its showing how directable your dog is after having done the whole rest of the routine including the dumbells which are the only thing close to a reward in the routine. A lot of the ob has to do with the order of things, but I can't find anything online explaining it so there's always the chance I'm missing some detail.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Again, not sure if this is correct, but I was told the send-away exercise is the basis for sending your dog out to search an area, away from you. Like sending a dog into a building, or around a building. I'm sure people who actually DO this for a living (having a LE dog), are laughing at this.

But as Steve said, it is meant to be an OB exercise. I think it shows that the dog will work independently away from you (sending him away), but is still under control (the down).


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> Again, not sure if this is correct, but I was told the send-away exercise is the basis for sending your dog out to search an area, away from you. Like sending a dog into a building, or around a building.



I have been told this same thing. Actually some of the biggest help I had for the send out came from SAR people. They always send the dog to a back stop. Like a wall, fence, something solid. The dog starts to understand that it runs out until it cant anymore or told to do something else. I have found this to work great. I've seen a lot of dogs who run out 20 paces then stop and down or start looking for their ball on the ground. I also virtually never down my dog at the end unless I'm close to a trial. I work down separate in a lot if different situations so I'm confident my dog will down when I tell it.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

What I try for with the send out, is to make it directional and not have to depend on a fence or pole. I try to combine the direction of the heeling pattern with the send out so that he understands it goes the same way as the long heeling and the recall. That's what I hope for, and even though I've never put a toy at the fence, he ran to the fence anyway, LOl. Goodbye all 10 points.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> I guess what I was striving for was the same "hit the dirt skidding on their stomach" down that they can do when you are in a running heel with them and down them as you continue running away....but am happier that I am somewhat close to the standard.


This is just how I think about the down with my own dogs. When Chaos would spin and drop like that it was because he was looking for me to throw the ball, and then the trick was trying to keep him from breaking the down because he'd nerve up when it didn't get thrown. Doc doesn't do it flashy like that, but to me it seems more like he's waiting for direction from me. When he turns and downs, its more like I have his attention and its not just anticipation.


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## lsatov (Mar 29, 2011)

I trained the send away with a hidden bird launcher. Started at short distances and gradually increased the distance. The cue in the beginning is the set up after the dumbbells and when at the start position she initially hears the sound from the bird launcher then I send her. So I pair the sound with the send away then launch the hidden ball . After a few times no cue, they already know what is coming. 

Then I worked on the heeling up to the point of releasing her and when she is far enough down the field and her heeling is perfect I release the bird and her. She is fast and straight in direction.

Off the field I did different exercises for the fast platz not to worried about
direction. Did the platz first in a trial no problems she is perfectly straight facing the end of the field. I very seldom practice the platz with the exercise.

That is how I trained it. Prior to trial go to the field set up the hidden bird launcher, set her up after dumbells she hears the cue, we heel and when she is good I release her and the bird. It has always worked.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Hey....another stupid question regarding the down during a send out. So, my dog downs on the send out but does turn mostly to look at me...I take that as a compliment now ( I'm easy ) BUT...to reinforce the behavior...do I verbally praise her the moment she downs,while staying put or run out to her while she is downed and give her some physical praise and maybe a session of tug? So far it has been verbal praise from afar. I feel I obviously must do something when she downs but if I wait until I recall her and then reward...the moment will be lost on the execution of the down during the send out.

SuperG


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I would just calmly walk up to her and praise her. You don't want to add too much of an element of excitement, as it might cause her to break her down. 

I know you are doing these exercises for fun, but if you want to pretend you are training for the real thing, remember that the platz on the send-out is the last OB exercise. The judge will signal for you to go pick up your dog, and at this point, you leash her and you make your way to the judge for your critique. 

If your dog expects a crazy play session after the down, she may anticipate this and break unpon your approach. Same for people who down the dog, then release it as a reward - dog anticipates the release, and may break before you get to her. 

So walk up to her, praise calmly, put a leash on (or just pretend), heel a few steps away, THEN you can release her into play.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

SuperG said:


> Hey....another stupid question regarding the down during a send out. So, my dog downs on the send out but does turn mostly to look at me...I take that as a compliment now ( I'm easy ) BUT...to reinforce the behavior...do I verbally praise her the moment she downs,while staying put or run out to her while she is downed and give her some physical praise and maybe a session of tug? So far it has been verbal praise from afar. I feel I obviously must do something when she downs but *if I wait until I recall her and then reward*...the moment will be lost on the execution of the down during the send out.
> SuperG


I never recall the dog on a send out. I go to the dog with purpose and a smile and then reward in the down position or after putting the dog in a sit. If you recall your dog after the sendout, breaking the down anticipating a reward may happen.


> I was told the send-away exercise is the basis for sending your dog out to search an area, away from you. Like sending a dog into a building, or around a building.


We talked about the reason for send outs at training a couple weeks ago. Our TD explained that during WW1 dogs were sent out with cabled wire attached to them, and the wire was laid as the dog ran out. It wasn't just for searches, but utility infrastructure construction https://www.google.com/search?q=dog...ei=EH7wVverEcyyeoD5m9AJ#imgrc=v2vDJNd_7lBEYM:


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Castlemaid and onyx'girl,

Aha....I learn some more as usual. My procedure so far has been a recall from the down on the send away...so I will amend that and walk to the dog calmly and praise upon my arrival. Yes, it is for fun in my backyard but we enjoy pretending. However, in the real world outside of competition, I can see a huge plus being able to down your dog at a distance ....especially if it is headed away from you.

Thanks for the input,

SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Since I am getting answers...I'm going to roll with it. So, besides working blinds and decoys....is your command to down the dog on a send away more vocally intense than most any other verbal command? Perhaps since it is a new skill being taught and at a distance, I have found myself being rather "vocal" on the down command on a send out because I do not have the dog looking at me....or is the intensity of your "platz" in your send away downs the same as most other commands?


SuperG


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

SuperG said:


> Since I am getting answers...I'm going to roll with it. So, besides working blinds and decoys....is your command to down the dog on a send away more vocally intense than most any other verbal command? Perhaps since it is a new skill being taught and at a distance, I have found myself being rather "vocal" on the down command on a send out because I do not have the dog looking at me....or is the intensity of your "platz" in your send away downs the same as most other commands
> SuperG


I draw out the command and am louder on the send out Platz, mainly because it is always very, very windy when I trial and the wind may drown out the command. 
On the platz before the escape bite, I am fairly quiet, dogs know what is expected and more often than not will platz before even giving the command. On the long down, I give it in a voice that is firm with the "you must" undertone. During the motion exercise, it is similar to the long down.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I'll bellow out the platz - our training field may be a tad bigger than your backyard, and I want to make sure he hears me even from the other end:










Other than that, I might practice capping his drive and platzing him when he is in drive at home, playing with a flirt pole or playing fetch. I use a more normal voice, as he is closer to me then, and I know he can hear me.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Thank you both


SuperG


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