# Jumping on Handler with Reward (How to Teach?)



## hylia (Mar 3, 2016)

Hi. I have what might be a dumb question... I have seen in a few training videos (obedience) that the dog bounces back and jumps onto the handler after getting his toy reward. 

Reward is tossed, dog gets it and whips back to jump up onto handler (like standing against handler), handler plays with dog.

I am assuming the point is to incorporate play with handler into the reward, not just having the reward focus on the toy itself? 

If not for any other useful reason other than it looks like fun, I would like to teach this. How does one go about that? My dog gets the rewards and brings it back to me without jumping, should I build on this or start something else entirely?

Thanks

(PS, I know I posted another thread and went AWOL, I was having trouble with the site freezing. I did not acknowledge the replies because I did not want to bring it back up just for that after so many weeks. Just mentioning because I don't want to come off as rude or that I do not appreciate your answers. Thank!)


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Hi hylia,

you are right in your assumptions that this is trained behaviour, and the goal is to make the handler the center of attention, not the toy. It isn't so much trained behaviour, as it is foundation training - developing your dog to want to interact with your, more than finding reward in the toy itself. 

Easy enough actually, and fun! Play tug with a tug toy , and let your dog win. Always.
Call your dog back, grab the tug handle, and play! Play play play!!! Made the tug play the bestest funnest part of any training session. Won't be long, your dog will be bringing you the tug to engage with you. Perfect way to make OB training fun and rewarding. 

You can google "engagement training" for videos that can show you more.


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## hylia (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks for the reply. I am at work so must keep my reply quick...

So, I always let her win for now, no more asking for 'outs'?

She does get the toy and come right back to me, but just does not jump up on me. She wants to play with me and toy, but is not 'pushy' about it? (Does that make sense?) So no more 'out' and just play, play, play when she gets back? And that should encourage more pushiness and jumping up?

I just got her about 6 weeks ago so I do know what we have to work on creating a bond. She has good interest in toys, play.

Thanks.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

How old is she? 

It might be hard to get her to jump if she has been formerly trained to not jump on people. I do protection sports, so my dogs have never been _discouraged_ from jumping, but at the same time, my adult dog will not jump on me, as he is too polite and respectful. And at 90 lbs, I don't really want him jumping on me full tilt. 

I do like a pushy dog though, and playing with a dog that gives 100% to the game is so much fun! I wouldn't out too often. Let the dog feel like they are controlling the game, making you react to their invitation to tug. You can try to encourage pushiness by being pushy yourself. When your dog comes in to you, playfully push her away several times. I don't know her, so I'm not sure how persistent she will be in coming back to you, but it will build her drive. When she ups her energy, play tug with her as a reward. You can shape the timing of the rewards until she is jumping on you. 

But be careful what you wish for, LOL! You may live to regret training her to do this.


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## hylia (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks again. 

She is 15 months old. She was not raised not to jump, she will jump when I get in, jump on my lap while on computer. I do not discourage, I don't mind. I have no kids in the house so I do not mind a bit of rambunctiousness so long as it is directed towards me, not just random zoomies. The previous owner does IPO an knew what they were doing to start in developing interest for play, ect. But, life happened and they did not get around to doing much, aside starting a bit in obedience. So, she does have a certain base in that way. 

I am also probably expecting too much too soon and maybe like you said putting too many rules (outs) on the game. She is just light years ahead of where my other dog was when we got her (training wise), and I might have forgot that she is still a dog that is new to me even though she goes through the motions (if that makes sense), we have to work on building our relationship. And I will try out your tips! 

I know what you mean about being careful what I wish for. She is only around 50lbs, so that helps, lol. I find it a lot different than my 72lbs dog, that's for sure.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm not sure, but I'm picturing two different things you may be talking about. One is the dog pushing with the toy to get the play started again, the other is a flip finish where the dog jumps into , then turns into heel position next to the handler. Is there one of those that describes more of what you're talking about?


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## hylia (Mar 3, 2016)

Hi Steve, I am referring to the dog pushing with the toy to get the play started again. Would love to learn to teach the flip finish one day, but not there yet, lol. 

As a spin off question, I did not really start on any formal ob commands yet as I was thinking it better to focus on developing play, etc , house commands first and give us a chance to get to be better 'partners' before getting into that. Is this a good plan?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Try this and see how she does. Get her tugging pretty strongly side to side, then slightly towards you, let go but keep your hands out and open while you take a small step back and encourage her to come back towards your hands with it. Its only maybe a foot or so, really short distance. Then try to get a little bit of a rhythm going like a waltz. 1 2 3 release, back to you. See how much energy she'll put into it.

And yeah, your plan sounds good.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Steve Strom said:


> I'm not sure, but I'm picturing two different things you may be talking about. One is the dog pushing with the toy to get the play started again, the other is a flip finish where the dog jumps into , then turns into heel position next to the handler. Is there one of those that describes more of what you're talking about?


and I am picturing something else 
"Reward is tossed, dog gets it and whips back to jump up onto handler (like standing against handler), handler plays with dog."

do you mean like the first image (woman and wolfhound?) https://www.google.ca/search?q=dog+...WG0YMKHep3BzcQsAQIJQ&biw=1280&bih=593&dpr=1.5


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## hylia (Mar 3, 2016)

Hi Carmen, the videos I saw the dog was jumping back on the handler to play, kind of positioned like the Wolfhound but with the paws against the chest, kind of like it was shoving the toy into the handler. Dog could have took his reward and trotted around, but instead came back to handler to play with him and the toy.

I was not sure if this specific position was an intentional when teaching the dog to push to play or not. Essentially, I think I am asking how to teach the dog to be pushy to continue the game with us. Maybe it just so happens that many dogs jump up when they do this? Sorry if I am not clear, I do not really know the terminology.

And... I can't find the videos now, I was just surfing Youtube going by the related videos that come up once you watch one...


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I think what you've seen involves two things, the strong desire to play and being comfortable coming front like that to push the toy back at you. The jumping could just be the excitement or at least partially the dog targeting your hands with the toy, which you can hold higher. The idea of that tugging in rhythm like that is to subtly create that.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

lol -- I know some people who are trying to stop that behaviour


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## hylia (Mar 3, 2016)

Well, don't I feel like a fool now, Carmen! lol. You mean trying to stop the pushiness in general or just the jumping up?

I will try out all your tricks to try and build on a better play style, and see where it takes us. I guess so long as we are both having fun, it's a win 

Thanks all!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Also, since you haven't had her very long, it might be a while for her to get comfortable enough with you to get really pushy. So just give her time to come into herself.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

hylia said:


> Well, don't I feel like a fool now, Carmen! lol. You mean trying to stop the pushiness in general or just the jumping up?
> 
> I will try out all your tricks to try and build on a better play style, and see where it takes us. I guess so long as we are both having fun, it's a win
> 
> Thanks all!


I don't mean to try and answer for Carmen, but you can teach them to jump into the play by targeting you hands with the toy and avoid the body contact that you may find out isn't much fun.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Some of it too, can come from just wanting to come to you fast. Have you ever heard of two ball?


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## hylia (Mar 3, 2016)

We play the two ball game like the one described in the book about "Obedience Training In Drive" (don't remember the full book name or author off hand, the book itself is tan colored if that helps). Not sure if there are several variations.

Also, I hope no one gets the wrong idea that I am complaining about her or something. I think she is pretty awesome, just trying to get some ideas how to up my own game a bit.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Sheila Booth and Godfried Dildei. Will she out and rebite when you tug?


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## hylia (Mar 3, 2016)

Yes that's the book! I did not want to attempt to spell the man's name off the top of my head, lol!

We are talking out and rebite, as in go after it right away without command? If she outs I have to watch out because a slight jerky move on my part will send her launching at the tug. I have to be deliberate in my actions. I have been teaching her to sit after she outs and then we start again, not a sit on command. Is this killing the fun too much? 

BTW, thanks again for all your time...


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

No, if you were killing the fun, she wouldn't keep playing or she'd try to leave with the toy. Try keeping it still, then give her permission to bite again, see how she does with that. Obedience like the sit is fine, but you want to have her bite when you give her permission. I know this all seems kinda disorderly, bouncing around, but it sounds like you have done a lot more with her then I first thought.


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## hylia (Mar 3, 2016)

Well, her previous owner did a lot of work too. 

I have another GSD that I went to courses with and learned some things about playing and obedience, nothing super in depth but more like the general things to motivate the dog, reward, positions. My dog was already older and we did some 'sport style' obedience more to work her mind and give her an outlet. 

The thing with her, is by the time we incorporated all this style of play into our training, we had already had been together for a certain time. So, it was the play that came after the bond, and now with this dog it's the other way around. I am wondering if the dog can become so focused on the toy, that the toy is the all mighty thing and I am just the person that controls it? So I was wondering how to create that balance, to work on the desire to play with handler and not just with the toy. 

I don't know if I am making sense.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, you're making sense. What I'd say though is that pushing the toy at you isn't the measure of the bond necessarily. I think of it more with how they are in the down time with you. The play is great, its all a part of things, but does she look to you and enjoy any casual contact, does petting her have value to her? I'm really careful to keep play/training separate with a clear beginning and a clear end, and make sure we spend a lot more time doing nothing. 

One of mine through most of his life was all about the toy, but he came around to valuing being with the family. Laying on the floor watching my wife and kids means as much to him now as the ball. Thats what I think of with bonding. Don't get me wrong, I play with my dogs a lot, but I think because its clearly defined and kinda limited, they're able to enjoy every other thing with us too.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I babbled a little bit there, sorry bout that. Shorter answer is, I think the balance you're talking about comes with a clearly defined time to work, time to relax. Then they'll both mean something.


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## hylia (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks for your reply, Steve. I think the longer reply was actually quite insightful. Needing to also look at the big picture. If I take 'down time' into account, I actually can't believe how seamlessly she has fit into our home/routine so far. She was a bit of a brat in the house at first, not actually getting into trouble because I didn't give her the chance... but you know what I mean. But I had her walk a fine line (in terms of structure, house rules) and now I would hardly know she is there half the time. She is a very sweet dog that just wants to be close to me. So, I guess that could be a good start to a bond. 

Aside from that, just writing to say that I incorporated you guys's advice into our play. More rythmic, more letting her win, less focus on the 'outs'. And she has started bringing the tug right back into my hands once I let her go off with it. I try to keep sessions a bit shorter and end before she gets bored or tired. 

Thanks again!


(please excuse all the crap in the background, was cleaning the yard that day and could not crop it out without taking parts off her...)


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