# Advice needed, my dog's littermate headed to the shelter :(



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I'd like to know what you'd do and how you would do it in this case.

Brief background: My WGSD mix dog, Bailey, is the result of my son's dogs. (Mom, pb WGSD; Dad Husky mix.) Seven pups resulted from the litter. He sold four, I sold two.

I also have two other dogs beside Bailey in the house, two spayed females of different breeds, 8 and 4 years old. And a cat.

Yesterday I was told that a woman who took a white male from the litter cannot handle him anymore. She notified my son, to give him first notice, and said if he couldn't/wouldn't take him back, that she would have to take him to the shelter. (It is a kill shelter here.) The dog (Tucker) is 9-1/2 months old.

I called her today to get more info. 

*What she told me: *Tucker was put outdoors almost from the start. When he was allowed inside, he was wild and knocked things over, etc, so they allowed him inside less and less and then not at all. Many of the neighborhood kids come over and play with Tucker after school and he absolutely loves the attention but would knock smaller kids down because he was so excitable. She says he is very loving with all people. She did not do any training or exercise with him, other than walks. She attempted some walks on a harness, then switched to a pinch and said that was the only thing that kept her arm in the socket. She says he's had no dog interactions, other than those on walks, but he didn't seem bothered by barking dogs. He's good with their cat.

She admits she got in way over her head and didn't realize how much demanding work would be required. She has three children; 12, 7 and 18 months and does not have the time. She apologized repeatedly but made it clear she cannot do it anymore.

She said she brought Tucker indoors to sleep in a crate two weeks ago. Said he is happy to go in the crate and doesn't fuss at all. But in the morning, he's back outside.

Her yard is fenced, but he has jumped the fence numerous times, so they went with Invisible Fence. 

She says any chance he gets to run, he's GONE. She said, "Oh, he makes it such a game when I chase him! He loves it!"

He is up to date on vaccinations. He's intact.

She was extremely apologetic but adament. She can't do it. Her vet advised her that he was a very sweet dog and would surely be easily adopted out, so that would be her best option since she knows she can't provide what the dog needs.

I am strongly considering taking Tucker, working with him as best I can, and trying to re-home him. I am going to go meet him tomorrow or Friday.

I have zero idea how to do this. Bailey takes so much of my time. What if they don't get along? (I'm not at all worried about Bailey - he'll be thrilled beyond his wildest dreams, but I don't know about Tucker.) How do I housetrain a 9 month old (I'm thinking like you'd housetrain a pup), how do I DO THIS with Bailey and two other dogs in my house? 

To me, bottom line, is this woman did the dog a major disservice, but I am appreciative that she's admitting it and giving us the chance to take him back, rather than just dropping him at the shelter.

I was there when this dog was born. He was "blue collar." He was almost the one I took home. Granted, I haven't seen him since he was 10 weeks old, so who KNOWS. But I feel a responsibility to this dog somehow. This dog could be my Bailey, if Bailey hadn't gotten the attention, exercise and training that he has. 

This is tearing me up. My son doesn't want to help. (Please don't blast my son - I'm already angry enough for everyone.) Please don't bother blasting the current owner, as that won't do any good, either. (Although I had to BITE my tongue many times thru the conversation.)

WHAT would YOU do? Would you take him in? Would you let him go to the shelter and likely face being pts? If you say take him in, how would you begin to address the "crazy" behavior in the house? (I'm thinking go back to basics, tether him... but Bailey will be right there, getting the action amped up.) 

I have to consider Bailey will get less time, less exercise, less training work because of another dog taking that away, but that's really what would happen, I think. Any way around that?

Here's Tucker -- horrible picture. I think he looks dirty and overweight. Hard to tell from this, though.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The right thing to do is take him, work with him and ask a rescue to help in his placement. Then if it doesn't work the rescue will be the safety net...of course this will probably cost you as in a large donation to the rescue.
If you don't think you can train his running/behaviors on your own, get help. It will only make things worse if he's left up to his own devices. If he is still intact, I'd have him neutered as well. Good luck! White Paws may be willing to help you. White Paws German Shepherd Rescue, Wisconsin


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Either do what Onyxgirl said, or if you just can't work with him yourself, offer to sponsor him through the rescue. You might need to hold him for a while until a foster home opens up.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Take him, get him fixed, find a rescue that will help you place the dog. If at all possible tell the rescue that you will foster the dog and care for him, and work on training him, what you need is only help in placing him. 

Going to a kill-shelter is a death sentence for a large, mixed breed, energetic older puppy with no manners.

Next year for Christmas, your son gets a note that you took care of Baily's litter mate. Christmas shopping done.


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

oh my as if you dont have enough to do already! take him and do the best you can, 10 mos is the prime time when irresponsible owners get tired of their not so cute puppies. i was thinking about a rescue and if you look on petfinders there are a lot of young dogs that age who need homes. unfortunatley people dont put the time into the puppies, walking training etc, they instead leave them in the backyard. good luck try not to lose your mind


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> Next year for Christmas, your son gets a note that you took care of Baily's litter mate. Christmas shopping done.


 
I love this!!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I can't imagine how mixed up he'll be because he's outside all the time..At three months mine was very confused BUT in saying that I believe that with time, patience, and love you can do this. Who knows maybe he will do just fine because he'll feel he's loved Since he doesn't mine the crate, the crate should help with potty training..Good Luck and please post pictures of him once he's cleaned up


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I'd strongly advise the 'two week shut down'.



> If I could stress one of the biggest errors people make with new dogs and foster dogs it is rushing the dog into the new world so fast . This shut down gives the dog a chance to say “ahhh” take a breath and restart into its new world.
> 
> From people I have helped I hear;
> "I introduced her to 15 people the first day I had her!" ;" he was a bit leery but seems to like my other 3 dogs" ; "she went everywhere with me "
> ...


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I have housebroken an older puppy (tether and crate) and there are many folks on this board who took in outside dogs. It's not that hard. The bratty teen stuff with no training is more challenging though. Basu spent 23 hours a day in a cage (14 in the garage) and he was 4.5 when I adopted him and he adapted to life outside of a cage just fine. 

It will be A LOT of work with two but I agree that you have to take him in. Did the pups go out on a contract?

I hope this isn't a pattern but I'm sure glad that woman contacted your son. 

And I would absolutely find a really good all breed or gsd rescue (who take mixes) and ask for help in rehoming him. He needs to go back out to someone who is going to keep him forever.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> I'd strongly advise the 'two week shut down'.


Even just one week with slow introductions is better than nothing, though two or three weeks is better. 

Potty training, it's pretty much just like a new puppy, although the older one can hold it longer. If you contact rescues and tell them you can foster until they can find him a placement, either a new foster or a home, they will probably work with you - especially if you tell them you'll be glad to allow them to get the rehoming fee in exchange for them doing the footwork and so on. If you aren't too strapped for money, getting him neutered for them and such would be great.

Since he sounds like a nice dog with good temperament, if you can get him started with the basics in training and work with the rescue, he should be able to move into a new forever home and live a happy life there. The shelter is a huge risk, the likelihood of an older puppy with no manners being adopted is kinda slim, even a dog that looks like he is gorgeous from that pic.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

Bless you for considering taking the poor pup in :hugs:


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

:hugs: I agree with the slow and easy "2 week shut-down" type introduction. 

When I adopted 18 month old Yukon (long story, abuse case, returned to breeder via CKC tattoo), I was told he was NOT house broken ... he had been tied to a tree for an entire winter in Winnipeg, MB. After I got him, he *NEVER* had a single accident in the house until a couple years later he got a nasty bladder infection and peeded in the dining room on the way outside.

If it were me, I'd take the dog, work on the dog's training to civilize him as much as possible, and try to find a rescue who will work with you in placing him in a good home.

I'd also consider putting your son on NILIF until he learns to start taking responsibility for his actions in life.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

If it were a sibling to my male I would take it in and I would probably end up keeping it.

If it were a sibling to my female I would take it in but try to find it a home ASAP, one Malice is enough. :crazy:

If you think you can handle another 10 month old puppy then I think you should take him in, work with him and see if he could become a permanent member of your family.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It's funny. I try to avoid giving the "two week" thing to adopters but there's times when I insist on them doing one if it's an adult dog who has come in from a very rough background (like this pup is) or straight from a shelter, more or less. 
We see positive behaviors just blossom with this, and you wind up with a lot less hassle and headaches and power struggles.
Somehow it helps the resident dogs ease into the fact there's another dog here, when the "newbie" gets more crate time than they do.

I've seen dogs raised outside who don't want to "go" in the house, because it's so foreign to them. Others don't care, but as a general rule it seems outside dogs once inside would rather potty outdoors like they've always done.

I hope it all goes well, Chelle.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Best of luck to you. You're a good person for doing this. I agree with the others to do a two week shutdown, slowly introduce positive behaviors, contact a rescue or no-kill shelters and help them adopt him out.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

chelle said:


> WHAT would YOU do? Would you take him in? Would you let him go to the shelter and likely face being pts? If you say take him in, how would you begin to address the "crazy" behavior in the house? (I'm thinking go back to basics, tether him... but Bailey will be right there, getting the action amped up.)


I am a sucker.. So I wouldn't be able to let him go to a shelter. I think that if you have the time and money to support him and you really want to, then you should do that. Yes it will take time away from Bailey and your other babies but not for long.. just until the new one is trained up. It will be different, it will be hard work, but after all the posts and things I have read from you.. I have complete and total faith that you will be the best thing that has ever happened to that dog. 

As for the crazy behavior in the house: I would make sure his crate is in a high traffic location. Everytime he gets too out of hand, in the crate he goes. That and no toys inside the house. He will have to learn that the house is a calm place unless you say otherwise, like you initiate play or something. He already loves his crate so it should be easier. Titan doesn't have a door on his crate anymore. Once he was crate/house trained, that came off. Any time he's out of hand, because he gets hyper as well, he "goes to bed" and he will lay there quietly until i say "ok" and he will come out all calm and collected like he should be.. but that took a good few weeks of training. 

Going back to the basics is an EXCELLENT I idea. I actually am doing the same with Titan right now, as he decided since I got out new puppy, he was going to "forget" things. Back to head collars on walks, basic obedience, and more crate time.

Please please please keep up updated.. if you choose to take him in I would love to hear how he is doing and progressing! Good luck Chelle!


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> I love this!!


LOL...me too!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

*Update*



selzer said:


> Next year for Christmas, your son gets a note that you took care of Baily's litter mate. Christmas shopping done.





arycrest said:


> I'd also consider putting your son on NILIF until he learns to start taking responsibility for his actions in life.


Yes, you're both right! I'm so upset with him I am not even speaking to him right now. I can't. I'll say something I regret. Especially now because I went to see Tucker tonight. I'm really feeling very emotional right now. 

This thread *might* be the only one I've seen here that *everyone* agrees on?  (That I should take the dog.) Well, I am going to take the dog. I have no idea what the heck I'm doing, but I'm going to take the dog. Thanks for the two week shutdown plan, I'm going to use it. 

As for Tucker, he is filthy and overweight. He is also extremely friendly. 

He's been horribly neglected. He is kept in a medium sized back yard with tall privacy fencing on most of it, but the gate and deck area are low, so she installed Invisible Fence for that small portion, or she says he'll go right over. (About 4 foot tall.) She says she spent $250 on it and is giving me all that is left, a couple hundred feet's worth. She tried shock collars, she said. So she tried everything *except* attention, love, training and exercise. :shocked:

He eats some food from Dollar General. (Seriously, probably even worse than Purina Pup Chow.) She said she'd been giving him lots of fatty table scraps so he'd be okay outside in the cold. She said he is 69 lbs. By comparison, my dog, his brother, is about 57 lbs and lean and fit. They're about the same height, so I figure Tucker is about 10 lbs overweight. (Please see all the pics and vid below and tell me what you think.)

He wears a prong at all times. She has a chain to put him on when allowed out of the back yard and then he is tied out on the prong.

He doesn't have any toys. He's never had a chewie. 

She put him on a leash to bring him out to me. He was crazy happy friendly. (I might cry right now.) He jumped up on me and that made her really unhappy... I told her hey don't worry about it... His jumping up was one of her biggest complaints, so I totally expected it. Considering the dog was never even taught "sit," of course it was going to jump up. I sweet talked him and his tail wagged like crazy. I stood on his leash and he fought it some, I lured him down into a drop and treated him. I swear, he acted like he had never seen a treat!!!!!!!!!  After he got the taste of that, he stayed down -- he definitely wanted more! He picked up on that very quick. 

He is totally up to date on his shots. She showed me the vet records. 

I had a brand new Bully Stick that I'd bought for Bailey earlier that day, but I gave it to Tucker and he was like a child who never got a thing for Christmas in his life. After I gave it to him, I touched it and talked to him and no growl, no fuss. I had to leave to go home... but I hope he enjoyed that (first) Bully Stick. 

Pics I took tonight:

















A vid: 




 
For comparison's sake, here are the two dogs I placed with people I know, who are doing very well and appear very healthy: 

















On a sidenote, Tucker's ears don't stand. Could this be due to malnutrition or some other deficiency? I don't care, I am just worried about his health. His littermates' ears stand quite well, obviously. I can't wait to get that frikkin poor-fitting, probably cheap junk prong off of him. I wonder what is under that prong. Obviously, a lot of dirt and I hope it is only dirt.

Tucker will be coming home with me Friday or Saturday at latest. I need to get my head straight, get a good game plan. I never imagined *this* challenge coming.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Since he's just 9 1/2 months old, you can try to tape or glue the ears, if that makes him more adoptable. It's great that you are taking him in. Good luck.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

Wow. I don't understand how people can just shove a dog outside and then wonder why it never behaves the way they want it to. Do they also think that you can leave children in a room for a few years and have them come out all grown up and perfect?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Oh he is a sweetheart and just remember the man upstairs doesn't give you more then you can handle You might be pleasantly surprised at how he responds to you, your family, and the dogs. First thing on the list is a bath, maybe 3 of them You might want to check his ears for an ear infection or mites too, since he's been outside,


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

He is ten months old. A puppy. I do not see him as fat. There seems to be a tuck up a little. When I was raising Heidi, Whitney, and Tori together, Heidi was a chunk. Finally I decided she needed a diet. I was just noticing her getting to be her ideal weight, when the dog food problem started and I had colitis on all of them, and they were on chicken and rice for a while. I wish she had her puppy fat going into that because all of them looked very thin before they started gaining again. 

Why am I seeing a shadow around his neck. he doesn't have an inbedded collar as well as that prong on? Wearing a prong non-stop, and being chained on a prong -- errrrgh!!!

Well, it hasn't done damage to the dog, yet. He is friendly. He is saying, get me outta here lady. 

Is Baily fixed? You might want to get this pup fixed before bringing him in. Both dogs are the same age, and that can make things interesting. It may be easier if the boy is fixed, but I will let someone else chime in on that. 

I think the owner of the dog is just ignorant, not mean, not evil. I think she used some methods to control/manage the dog, and is over her head. Once you get the dog and start working with him, I am afraid you might fall in love with him. I hope so. 

Good luck. I hope all goes well with your boys. The pup looks like he could use a good bath and a brush, and then some serious training. But the number 1 thing you need for a pup is being friendly, and he has that. 

Thanks for rescuing him.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

OriginalWacky said:


> Wow. I don't understand how people can just shove a dog outside and then wonder why it never behaves the way they want it to. Do they also think that you can leave children in a room for a few years and have them come out all grown up and perfect?


Ignorance. Pure Ignorance. They don't know better...and don't do an effort to learn either, they just shove the responsibility onto somebody else. :help:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

OriginalWacky said:


> Wow. I don't understand how people can just shove a dog outside and then wonder why it never behaves the way they want it to. Do they also think that you can leave children in a room for a few years and have them come out all grown up and perfect?


****, thats what I did wrong with my kid Just kidding...........


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

llombardo said:


> ...*and just remember the man upstairs doesn't give you more then you can handle* You might be pleasantly surprised at how he responds to you, your family, and the dogs. First thing on the list is a *bath*, maybe 3 of them You might want to check his ears for an ear infection or mites too, since he's been outside,


Thanks llombardo . That was *just* what I needed to hear, actually. I will try very hard to keep my sense of comedy as I attempt to bathe an unknown, outside dog who has never seen a bathtub! :help::help:



selzer said:


> He is ten months old. A puppy. I do not see him as fat. There seems to be a tuck up a little. When I was raising Heidi, Whitney, and Tori together, Heidi was a chunk. Finally I decided she needed a diet. I was just noticing her getting to be her ideal weight, when the dog food problem started and I had colitis on all of them, and they were on chicken and rice for a while. I wish she had her puppy fat going into that because all of them looked very thin before they started gaining again.
> 
> Why am I seeing a shadow around his neck. he doesn't have an inbedded collar as well as that prong on? Wearing a prong non-stop, and being chained on a prong -- errrrgh!!!
> 
> ...


Thanks, Selzer. Really, thank you. 

You're totally right, the owner is not evil. She is just in far, far over her head. She tried everything, _other than_ the true time commitment to working with the dog. I really just chalk her up to the basic ignorant dog owner. Not even saying that in a negative way, though I'm very upset with the dog's living conditions and lack of care. I'm quite suprised at how friendly he is in spite of nearly total neglect from 10 weeks to 9.5 months. 

There is no collar under the prong. I don't know if that is dirt or what that is.

No, Bailey is still intact. I do intend to neuter this new guy once he's settled in. 

Your statement: "_Once you get the dog and start working with him, I am afraid you *might fall in love with him. I hope so."*_

*:wub: *Time will tell. I fell in love with him already, at least a lil bit.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

That discoleration is from wearing the prong chain collar. My parents had a sheltie that wore a choker and it done the same thing to him. A real good bath and scrubbing will get rid of most of it.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

chelle said:


> Thanks llombardo . That was *just* what I needed to hear, actually. I will try very hard to keep my sense of comedy as I attempt to bathe an unknown, outside dog who has never seen a bathtub! :help::help:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think she is in over her head and she certainly hasn't tried everything. She hasn't even tried the bare basics like exercise and training. She simply doesn't WANT to deal with the commitment a high energy, intelligent, large dog takes. She didn't do any research on the breeds this dog is mixed with before she took that adorable puppy home and now that puppy is grown and has serious time requirements she simply doesn't want to put forth the effort. Unfortunately though there are millions of others like her in this country.

Thankfully this pup has you to keep him out of the kill shelter and to save his life. You are an angel for doing this and with some work I have little doubt he will turn out to be a wonderful companion. Thank you so much for saving his life and I agree with the person who said that next Christmas your son should get a note that says "Merry Christmas- this year I saved one of the puppies that you bred".

Please keep us posted with updates and pictures.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'm glad you are taking the dog. It is really your son's responsibility but you stepped up to the plate. He doesn't look fat to me either. A good brush out & bath will spruce him up. A vet visit wouldn't hurt. 

That's so bad to have him tied out on a prong. The good news is the abscence of rewards in his past may make him very accepting of them & praise as training rewards. 

One thing I encourage you to do is to pay way more attention to your young male than to this new guy. That is give the "senior" resident first access & the new guy later access (to you, to food etc.) I'm sure you know all that but just in case you get distracted ... (it is so easy to assure the new guy & let the first resident fall a little.)

Again, I want to thank you for stepping up to this!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

DharmasMom said:


> I don't think she is in over her head and she certainly hasn't tried everything. She hasn't even tried the bare basics like exercise and training. She simply doesn't WANT to deal with the commitment a high energy, intelligent, large dog takes. She didn't do any research on the breeds this dog is mixed with before she took that adorable puppy home and now that puppy is grown and has serious time requirements she simply doesn't want to put forth the effort. Unfortunately though there are millions of others like her in this country.
> 
> Thankfully this pup has you to keep him out of the kill shelter and to save his life. You are an angel for doing this and with some work I have little doubt he will turn out to be a wonderful companion. Thank you so much for saving his life and I agree with the person who said that next Christmas your son should get a note that says "Merry Christmas- this year I saved one of the puppies that you bred".
> 
> Please keep us posted with updates and pictures.


I think we are saying over her head because I think we are talking about a single mom with some very small kinds. I imagine she is working too. It was a bad situation to put the pup into, but not everyone tells you their whole situation when they are accepting the puppy, and not everyone knows what all questions to ask people. So I figure the woman did what she could do, tried what she could try with the time and resources she had, and she gave up. Actually, better she gave up now while the dog is still a puppy, will bond to his new owner, and hopefully give them many healthy years of pet ownership. She could have waited for the dog to be six or seven, never known anything but the chain and prong collar, and then dumped him in the nearest kill shelter who would put him down. So at least she contacted the person she got him from. She realized that she was over her head, and not doing right by the dog. In that, she did the right thing.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

You're going to do a great job Chelle, I just know it. One word of caution though.
I'd go easy on the bully sticks until you're sure his stomach can handle them. Not too many in a short period of time. He might have to spend more time outside than you want him to if they don't agree with him.


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

I agree with msvette2u. You only know what the woman told you and it's possible that she didn't mention other problems for fear that you wouldn't take the pup. Take the introductions slow. It's like training a new puppy, only that puppy is almost 9 months old and over 60 lbs. I'd get in contact with a rescue, let them know the situation and that you are willing to foster until someone adopts the pup. Be careful that you don't devote too much time to this pup as your other dogs may become jealous and start a problem. Thank you for saving this pup. I agree that this should be your son's Christmas/Birthday present.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Caitydid255 said:


> I agree with msvette2u. You only know what the woman told you and it's possible that she didn't mention other problems for fear that you wouldn't take the pup. Take the introductions slow. It's like training a new puppy, only that puppy is almost 9 months old and over 60 lbs. I'd get in contact with a rescue, let them know the situation and that you are willing to foster until someone adopts the pup. Be careful that you don't devote too much time to this pup as your other dogs may become jealous and start a problem. Thank you for saving this pup. I agree that this should be your son's Christmas/Birthday present.



Okay I'm going to disagree with some of this. Yes she only knows what the woman told her, but obviously this woman is not a dog person and doesn't know much or else she and a million other people wouldn't be giving up their dogs. This woman laid it all out on the line because she just doesn't care if the dog goes to the shelter or a home. I have brought dogs in my home that were same size or better and they got along fine with my dogs(I had more problems with the little ones thinking they were boss)...I agree on the taking it slow part. As far as time...this person taking the dog spends lots of time with her own and because of that there will be some sense of security within her household. When you have a secure dog you know you have a good dog. The first clue that this dog will PROBABLY do fine is the fact that he was happy when someone entered his yard, which is his home and he was on a chain too(this is when they would be the most aggressive in my experience). He didn't guard his treat either. He was approached with kindness and he was very excited for that and because of the kindness this woman has it will reflect in that dog...This is no different then picking up a dog at the shelter except she has the benefit of knowing some back ground on him. I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up keeping him in the end She probably doesn't want to hear that....:laugh:


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Dogs love a routine. Take him in and put him in the same routine as his litter mate. He will adapt more quickly that way and it will be easier on you.
If it works for Bailey and for you, it will work for him.
Once he is 'fixed' and in a normal routine you can consider re-homing. Maybe an ad in the paper or in PetFinder.
JMHO


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

llombardo said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up keeping him in the end She probably doesn't want to hear that....:laugh:


 nope she probably doesn't but I wouldn't be surprised either


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

:bump:


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

So I've *already* jacked this thing up. 

I really did not have a way to introduce the dogs on neutral territory, but I am so sorely regretting that now. I just wanted him out of there. If I could've waited longer, maybe I could've lined something up. But I didn't.

So I picked him up and he went with me more than willingly and never looked back. She thanked me repeatedly and asked that I send her pics and vids if I could. Gave me her whole Invisible Fence system.

He was semi-nutty in the car on the 15 minute ride home. He wanted to kiss me non-stop. I was trying to balance cracking up laughing and driving my car safely. When he got too over the top, I had to back him off. He is very sensitive to a stern voice.

I got home and walked Tucker around the yard a bit, let him smell. He was sniffing everything. Lots of doggy smells out there. 

I had the bf take the three dogs into the bedroom and I brought Tucker inside, onleash. He cautiously sniffed everything out. He was stressed and panting pretty heavy:





 
(FYI - This dog has rarely been allowed inside a home - only when he was a very young pup for a very short time - and then in the past two weeks, but only to go straight into a crate at night and back outdoors in the morning. IF I can even believe what the former owner says, anyway.)

At one point in our walkaround, he lifted his leg on my recliner. I'd been waiting for that and reacted quickly with a good stern NO. His leg went right back down in record-time. Again, he is very sensitive, apparently, to human reprimand.

I then did the bath. OH MY, OH MY. Worst bath experience ever. Exceedingly difficult. Worse than cutting my Shiba's nails. He never growled or got mad at me at all - but trying to control him was insane. I scrubbed him down as best I could. He was just filthy dirty. Maybe I should've waited, knowing he was stressed. 

I dried him as best possible, and introduced him to his new crate. Put a toy and a chewie in there. The crate is in a far back corner of the dining room. I really don't have a "spare" room to put him in as per the two week shutdown thing. He went in very willingly.

I dimmed the lights and sat at the computer desk, which he can see from his corner. He wasn't calm, but wasn't hyped up, either. An occasinal whine.

When it seemed pretty calm, I let the other three dogs out. 

Bailey went straight to Tucker's crate, whined, sniffed, checked him out and growled at him. I've heard Bailey growl about twice in his life. When strangers pulled their cars up the drive. He doesn't growl during even normal dog play. 

So I was actually pretty surprised by that. Bailey is the most dog loving dog that lives, I think.

BUT I am the stupid human that brought another intact male into the house without the proper meet n greet. (Please smack me, I deserve it)

Bailey went alongside the crate and growled a few more times and he was corrected each time. I'm probably wrong there, too, but I wasn't going to let him intimidate Tucker like that, since Tucker was doing nothing but sitting there. (Keep in mind, Tucker has had no dog contact.)

My other two dogs didn't care a bit about the strange dog in the crate in the corner. Sniff, yeah, ok, it's a dog, where's my dinner, mom? 

I covered the crate with a blanket and Tucker is silent. Bailey tried to go alongside the open side of the crate a couple times to growl, I corrected and praised him very highly when he came back and sat beside me. In fact, I've given Bailey *lots* of attention tonight. Lots. Bailey is stressed with the doggy under the blanket in the corner. It is getting better as the night goes on. Tucker is still silent. Poor guy. His whole world changed so much!

There's a dog under there:










(I turned the lights on only so the pic would come out. I'm keeping the dining room nicely dimmed.)

I clearly have no idea what I'm doing here.

Any/all advice appreciated and very welcome.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If you can get someone to walk Tucker, and you Bailey off your property to introduce them on neutral ground...just a brisk walk, no interaction, just walk. That may help Bailey and Tucker set their relationship in a positive way. 
I would have done that right off the bat, but you not knowing Tucker or having anyone to help makes it hard. If there is any way you can do this in the morning, I would try it. As Tucker is crated/there may be some barrier frustration on all sides. They want to sniff/ get to know, but can't. Best to intro on territory that neither dog is the 'owner'.
RE, Tuckers ear...it looks to me as if he's had a hematoma which damaged the cartilage. I don't know if it will ever stand. When you bathed him, did it feel thicker than the other one? It looks like there is damage, could be from an infection/head shaking.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

I think Tucker looks like an awesome boy, seems to be a confident, happy dog despite his upbringing. His enthusiasm for attention and treats should make him fun to work with. 
Don't give Bailey TOO much attention or coddling, it is your house, not his and you should be able to bring in whomever you'd like without asking his permission. We have strange dogs in and out all the time(all of ours are intact and many of the visitors are as well, a non issue in the big scheme for us), and while we don't expect everyone to be best friends, we do expect our dogs to respect the status quo, which is US in charge. 
Like others have said, when the time comes find a way to introduce them away from Bailey's stuff and place. 
Keep the new boy crated quite a bit for now, it will actually settle him down and help him adjust to the new sights, sounds and smells.
When we get new dogs here with minimal dog skills we do a couple of things, 1. We rub the scent of the new dogs face, muzzle, ears on our hands and then rub our hands over our dog's face, muzzle and ears. 
2. We get Bil Jac dog food (the kind in the freezer at the grocery store) and make up little balls of it. We then feed the new dog bits through the crate and feed our dog some of it on the floor near the crate, slowly feeding our dog closer and closer to the crate (gauging reactions of course, if either dog gets upset we back away). We never get greedy with this, if we predict that our dog can get 10 inches from the crate, we quit at that point and don't push it. 

When correcting Bailey for growling, just use your voice in a matter of fact tone if you can. Don't be over the top, just a nice Uh-uh and redirect him to sit or down (some command he is good at) and reward him for the obedience command.

Also, we like to put another dog in a crate next to the new dog. We usually put the opposite sex if we can, or a very settled older dog of the same sex if need be. (We happen to have an assortment)

This is really hard to write LOL, I'm so used to doing it with new dogs in the daycare/training center but don't really think about it anymore.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> *If you can get someone to walk Tucker, and you Bailey off your property to introduce them on neutral ground...*just a brisk walk, no interaction, just walk. That may help Bailey and Tucker set their relationship in a positive way.
> I would have done that right off the bat, but you not knowing Tucker or having anyone to help makes it hard. *If there is any way you can do this in the morning, I would try it*. As Tucker is crated/there may be some barrier frustration on all sides. They want to sniff/ get to know, but can't. Best to intro on territory that neither dog is the 'owner'.
> RE, Tuckers ear...it looks to me as if he's had a hematoma which damaged the cartilage. I don't know if it will ever stand. When you bathed him, did it feel thicker than the other one? It looks like there is damage, could be from an infection/head shaking.


I have a couple of friends I can call on for this help, and I will. 

As for the barrier frustration, yes. Bailey was definitely frustrated. Tucker didn't show any frustration. He seemed to be intimidated. 

Hematoma? Oh ugh. The bath was a trying event, so I did not even begin to notice a difference in the ear thickness. I was more concentrated on that mess around his neck. His ears are pink and appear non-infected, but I will do a much better inspection tomorrow. What might cause that extent of damage?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I bet I was right about the ear infection Poor baby Well little growls are better then vicious attacks I have neighbors that just moved in yesterday with two boston terriers...I'm on the computer and I hear scratching at my door, I open the door and there are two little heads After I played with the dogs I let my male golden out and they instantly played then I let my 7 year old female out...there was some growling--between the two females and my first reaction was to stop my dog(only because some people don't understand the growling) and the boston's mom says no let them growl..they are deciding among themselves the packing order(which I also knew, but was amazed she knew too). Literally within 20 seconds, all growling stopped and the dogs were off and running playing. I'm not a big believer in introducing two dogs on a leash...it can cause problems BUT when you have two bigger dogs the bigger problem is breaking up the fight if one of them doesn't back down. In your case I think Tucker will be the one to back down and if you get past that introduction and the dogs can sort it out everything will be fine. I still don't think you are going to have a problem with them....just remember they can sense your nervousness and that can make things worse...you'll do just fine and so will they


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

bocron said:


> I think Tucker looks like an awesome boy, seems to be a confident, happy dog despite his upbringing. His enthusiasm for attention and treats should make him fun to work with.
> *Don't give Bailey TOO much attention or coddling, it is your house*, *not his and you should be able to bring in whomever you'd like without asking his permission.* We have strange dogs in and out all the time(all of ours are intact and many of the visitors are as well, a non issue in the big scheme for us), and while we don't expect everyone to be best friends, we do expect our dogs to respect the status quo, which is US in charge.
> Like others have said, when the time comes find a way to introduce them away from Bailey's stuff and place.
> *Keep the new boy crated quite a bit for now, it will actually settle him down and help him adjust to the new sights, sounds and smells.*
> ...


Thank you. That makes *a lot* of sense and I'm going to try those suggestions. Bailey is my shadow. My velcro dog. He has to also know he doesn't "own" me, I suppose. He's been my constant companion from 11 weeks to nearly 10 months. I'm sure jealousy plays into things, but you're right, this is my house and he must behave in a certain way. 

I'm upset with myself. If these two dogs had been introduced at the dog park -- they'd likely play and love each other. I wish I had been more patient and done things differently.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

chelle said:


> Thank you. That makes *a lot* of sense and I'm going to try those suggestions. Bailey is my shadow. My velcro dog. He has to also know he doesn't "own" me, I suppose. He's been my constant companion from 11 weeks to nearly 10 months. I'm sure jealousy plays into things, but you're right, this is my house and he must behave in a certain way.
> 
> I'm upset with myself. If these two dogs had been introduced at the dog park -- they'd likely play and love each other. I wish I had been more patient and done things differently.


I don't think that things are a complete mess...do not knock yourself...you are doing a good thing and it will work


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I bet I was right about the ear infection Poor baby



Whites naturally have pink ears, though...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

iBaman said:


> Whites naturally have pink ears, though...



I was referring to the floppy ear....My puppy's ear was floppy too and she had an ear infection when I got her. Her ear is fine now, but if the infection was never taken care of I'm sure that outcome would have been different.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I was referring to the floppy ear....My puppy's ear was floppy too and she had an ear infection when I got her. Her ear is fine now, but if the infection was never taken care of I'm sure that outcome would have been different.


Ohh, I thought you were just talking about the pink xD

Shelbot has a floppy ear...it just doesn't want to stand, and I'm ok with that. It's super thick, so I'm pretty sure that's why it doesn't stand.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

iBaman said:


> Ohh, I thought you were just talking about the pink xD
> 
> Shelbot has a floppy ear...it just doesn't want to stand, and I'm ok with that. It's super thick, so I'm pretty sure that's why it doesn't stand.


I would have been okay with the ear not standing too My mom is not okay with it being straight, she loved the crooked ear but if it doesn't stand and its because of an ear infection that the previous owner in this case didn't take care of, that is just sad


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I have always done the leash walk thing for introductions. I think you could still do that tomorrow. 

When you take the new guy out do you put everyone else in the bedroom? 

Just be careful.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Well personally I don't think you've jacked anything up at all. It sounds like a pretty normal first day. You're doing a great thing and a great job. 
Don't allow Bailey to be a punk and don't allow Tucker to push the boundaries, that is your job at this point. They are both trusting you to be the voice of reason and good sense. As long as there is no bad experience then a very slow good introduction will be fine.
That 2 week shutdown post that was posted was very sensible, I just had a chance to read it. I'm thinking someone who deals with a bunch of foster dogs probably has a clue .


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

BowWowMeow said:


> I have always done the leash walk thing for introductions. I think you could still do that tomorrow.
> 
> When you take the new guy out do you put everyone else in the bedroom?
> 
> Just be careful.


Yes, I put them all away. Definitely.

I have a lady coming at 2:00 today to help work with me. I was referred to her by a local dog training facility and she talked to me on the phone for awhile. I am so grateful help is coming. 



bocron said:


> Well personally I don't think you've jacked anything up at all. It sounds like a pretty normal first day. You're doing a great thing and a great job.
> Don't allow Bailey to be a punk and don't allow Tucker to push the boundaries, that is your job at this point. They are both *trusting you to be the voice of reason and good sense*. As long as there is no bad experience then a very slow good introduction will be fine.
> That 2 week shutdown post that was posted was very sensible, I just had a chance to read it. I'm thinking someone who deals with a bunch of foster dogs probably has a clue .


Thanks for the faith. 

Tucker slept through the night in the crate inside and was crying at 5:30AM, so took him out for a potty break and he drug me like a ragdoll. I even fell once or twice. 70 lbs of strong, untrained dog, oh my. I had to put that prong back on, it's the only way I can possibly control him. Then back in the crate to eat and he is still there. He can see me and that calms him down a bit. Bailey is not nearly as interested and growly - he's more velcro to me than usual though it seems. I'm getting ready to brave another outing for Tucker. 

This is hard. I'm glad some help is coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Ok I'm going to lose my mind. 

See my lovely arrangement? Bailey just kept getting too close to the crate and Tucker seemed stressed a bit by it... so I did this. As you can see, Mr Bailey is napping? and Tucker has relaxed and laid down, too. Hallelujah, I'm going to try to grab a nap, too, I need it!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I am not laughing at you oh okay yes I am, well not really you but the chair arrangement:wild: It looks to be going as planned At least there is no lunging, growling or attacking!!! I would dread walking Tucker, he looks like he could drag someone down the street.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Just my opinion, but I believe when you decide to breed dogs, you should be responsible for each and every single one of those puppies. If someone can't keep one or you can't sell one or more, you should keep them until you do find a good home for them. You should also be responsible for ensuring they go to homes where the people understand what they are getting into so these types of things don't happen. 

If someone can't afford to keep all the puppies they have, they shouldn't breed dogs in the first place. 

Not pointing the finger at anyone, the word "you" is being used in a figurative way.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Shaner, most here would agree but that belief isn't necessarily applicable to this situation. 
Chelle is not the one who "bred" the dogs, her son had the dogs and allowed the female to get pregnant. She's trying to do the "right" thing here. I don't even really think it is her responsibility, although some would argue it is, and of course she feels responsible. 
Anyway - just clarifying if you haven't followed the whole story.

As a rule, people who just happen to have intact pets (and their pets end up having puppies) don't even do this much, those are the ones you see on CL and in shelters all the time.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Who owns the female?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Does it matter? Is any of that going to help Chelle place Tucker in a new home and help her integrate him into her family until that time? Chelle isn't responsible for Tucker being on this earth.


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## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> Shaner, most here would agree but that belief isn't necessarily applicable to this situation.
> Chelle is not the one who "bred" the dogs, her son had the dogs and allowed the female to get pregnant. She's trying to do the "right" thing here. I don't even really think it is her responsibility, although some would argue it is, and of course she feels responsible.
> Anyway - just clarifying if you haven't followed the whole story.
> 
> As a rule, people who just happen to have intact pets (and their pets end up having puppies) don't even do this much, those are the ones you see on CL and in shelters all the time.


Oh I absolutely agree. That's why I said the word "you" is used in a figurative sense. I just trying to make a point that I believe if you breed dogs, you are ultimately responsible for every one of those dogs until the day they die. If you have to keep every one of them due to not being able to find proper homes, then that's what should happen. 

I know that's unfortunately not reality though. 

I once made the mistake of breeding my female husky. It was the dumbest thing I ever did, but I simply didn't know any better. I was younger and very naive. I wanted another puppy, decided to breed my dog and keep one of the puppies and sell the rest. All went to good homes fortunately, and in the end I lost a lot of money. That's part of the reason I'm so passionate about subjects like this, because I once made the mistake of being a BYB. The only upside I guess, if there even is one, is that I bred purebred huskies, which are usually quite easy to re-home if need be and generally don't end up in shelters for long at all (at least not around here).


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> Does it matter? Is any of that going to help Chelle place Tucker in a new home and help her integrate him into her family until that time? Chelle isn't responsible for Tucker being on this earth.


The owner of the female is responsible for the puppies, it is her dog. Unless it is OK to breed a bitch and turn your back on her progeny. That would be irresponsible. How the breeding came about doesn't matter, just the fact that it did matters. JMHO with no emotional investment. I know that all the people involved are responsible and caring dog lovers... and that they will do the right thing.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

PaddyD said:


> Who owns the female?


Chelle owns the female now, but did not own her at the time she was bred. If the owner of a female dog is responsible for every pup that female has ever had, someone needs to tell me now so I don't adopt a retired breeding bitch.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Actually I don't think Chello owns the female. I believe the dog lives w/her son. But maybe the son moved back? I forget.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

No. Chelle does not own the female. Her son still owns the female.

And even if she did own the female, she took the dog and is doing the responsible thing. What she is doing now is above and beyond responsible.

So again...why does this matter? this thread is about integrating him into her household, not about who is responsible and who isn't. I think that is just detracting from the point of the thread.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> No. Chelle does not own the female. Her son still owns the female.
> 
> And even if she did own the female, she took the dog and is doing the responsible thing. What she is doing now is above and beyond responsible.
> 
> So again...why does this matter?* this thread is about integrating him into her household, not about who is responsible and who isn't. I think that is just detracting from the point of the thread.*


Good post. 
Not to mention it's all beside the point. Are you guys gonna email or call her son to bitch him out about this??
Chelle is going above and beyond her call of duty and I commend her.

As for the other -- you're really preaching to the choir. We all understand what it takes to be a responsible dog owner and citizen.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> Who owns the female?


Whoa, whoa  I think I'd better clarify!

My SON owns the female (Lexus). He moved back home when Lexus was about five months and stayed 'til she was... I don't remember.. 11 months? He then got a second dog (Bailey's father) while he was living away from me. He then came back AGAIN last winter with her and moved out yet again last fall. (So Lexus lived with me for about six months in two different time periods.)

When he moved out the SECOND time, *that* is when he allowed her to get pregnant. He wasn't living here. She was *not* under my care or *she would not have gotten pregnant*. 

And FWIW, this is the *second* dog from that litter that he sold but the owner couldn't "handle it" and returned the dog. *I* also took *that* dog in and re-homed her and she is a very lucky girl, she has a huge fenced yard and very loving owners who still stay in contact. I was very careful and talked to a lot of people before I decided on who I wanted to give her to. My son wasn't willing to deal with that one, either. 

Not meaning to get defensive, and especially because I want to talk about Tucker, but I had to clarify. I'm no saint, but yes, I do feel a strong sense of responsibility for this litter.

I'm very disappointed in my son. He was raised with animals and (I thought) taught properly about their care and responsibility. But I'm not going to go into that. Too personal. 

And on the last note there -- when Lexus lived with me last time, I had her spayed. Drove her myself and paid the tab, so she will never have another litter.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I also think that if you just want to make a statement in general, you shouldn't make it in a post that is kind of related, because then everyone thinks you are attacking the OP. When that happens, people will come and rightly defend. And then others will say what they think. And then someone will go over the top. And then several people will go over the top. And then the mods will step in and have to warn people or ban people or shut the thread down. 

Shaner, you have a story that should be told, but it should be told to people who are thinking about breeding their bitch.


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## StryderPup (May 16, 2009)

Chelle, you did an awesome thing. In these situations, you do what you have to! I am sure you will have challenges, and I wish I were closer, I would offer to help. Please keep us updated and make sure you are taking care of yourself too!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jax08 said:


> And even if she did own the female, she took the dog and is doing the responsible thing. What she is doing now is above and beyond responsible.


Yes, yes it is.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Just kind of poppin' in on this; if you ever need any help let me know. Des Moines isn't that far away.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Ok! So enough of all that! I'd love to talk about Tucker!

I was on the phone early this morning, trying to find a trainer to come over.

I think I hit pay dirt. She came over and I really liked her demeanor. Just very calm. 

We did a number of exercises with Bailey and Tucker and even got my Shiba in on the action a little, but the Shiba just put her snot nose in the air and didn't care about Tucker.

No growling, lunging or aggressive behavior. (yay!)

Both were leashed the entire time. She had Tucker, I had Bailey. We worked inside and outside. Starting far away, working in.. just lots of things. She charged me for an hour, but stayed an hour and a half. 

Her prognosis: 

I need to keep doing variations of what was done today with a helper. Tucker's house manners are non-existent, so he cannot be offleash in the house yet, nor does she want me to have them together in the house (without someone being crated) unless there's another human there to help. Tucker is a big, strong guy and when he jumps on you, you know it. And that seems to be a very big issue - she worked and worked with him as he kept jumping up and I watched how she handled it. 

She said she thinks there is a very good chance they'll eventually be fine together, but it needs to happen very slowly and I need to work daily on his house manners and the jumping.

Yeah, I have a really strong feeling that woman will be coming back.  Maybe weekly.  

I need a nap. Both the dogs are totally crashed out! (that must've been hard work for them) so I am going to go take full advantage!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the support and all advice still welcome and appreciated!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sounds like you are making great progress!!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

chelle good for you ) Will be lots of work, but I think your up for the challenge to make Tucker a valuable member of yours or someone else's family..


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Chelle I'm really glad that things are improving!!!!! You are so awesome for taking him in.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Very nice first day Keep up the good work...Tucker is a very lucky boy


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I agree...no blood shed, tired dogs...good day!


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

I just want to repeat what others are saying.. that you are doing an awesome thing chelle, and color me impressed. I really wish everybody would take that kind of responsibility, the shelters would start being more empty than full. 

I love love love working with big strong dogs that have no clue about manners, because the payoff when they start getting them is SO huge. But the beginning is usually so rough to deal with.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

chelle said:


> And on the last note there -- when Lexus lived with me last time, I had her spayed. Drove her myself and paid the tab, so she will never have another litter.


Wait a minute, I said that way wrong.. I had her spayed after the pups were born, not when she lived with me or there wouldn't have been pups. Oh I'm tired. I had to correct that, or it might come back to haunt me, hehe.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Don't let anyone get to you. It's not your fault. You are doing what a parent does, fix the mess.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> Don't let anyone get to you. It's not your fault. You are doing what a parent does, fix the mess.


Amen to that. Chelle came through for her son and for Tucker.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Truly, the owner of Tucker could have left this just go under the radar and put him on CL...then what. I think Chelle or her son did well as far as stressing their responsibility for 'life' of the pups that were placed. Too bad Tuckers mom took on so much with an already full plate. He'll find his forever home, and maybe this trainer that will be working with Chelle, will help in that. 
I look forward to the next chapter...and hope Tucker's future people will keep us updated after Chelle and her trainer work their magic with him.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

OriginalWacky said:


> I just want to repeat what others are saying.. that you are doing an awesome thing chelle, and color me impressed. I really wish everybody would take that kind of responsibility, the shelters would start being more empty than full.
> 
> I love love love working with big strong dogs that have no clue about manners, because the payoff when they start getting them is SO huge. But the beginning is usually so rough to deal with.


I'm blushing.. no, but really, all this praise is making me a little embarrassed.  My motivation is selfish in a way. I love Bailey's mom and I love Bailey, so therefore I love the results of that litter. :wub: Then meeting Tucker and seeing how sweet he is; well, no contest. If he'd been human aggressive? Could've been different.  I just wouldn't have known how to deal with that. So Thank God that isn't the case. As for this payoff you speak of???? :shocked::laugh: 



Mrs.K said:


> Don't let anyone get to you. It's not your fault. *You are doing what a parent does, fix the mess*.


Boy, ain't that the truth. 



onyx'girl said:


> Truly, the owner of Tucker could have left this just go under the radar and put him on CL...then what. I think Chelle or her son did well as far as stressing their responsibility for 'life' of the pups that were placed. Too bad Tuckers mom took on so much with an already full plate. He'll find his forever home, and maybe this trainer that will be working with Chelle, will help in that.
> I look forward to the next chapter...and hope Tucker's future people will keep us updated after Chelle and her trainer work their magic with him.


I'm glad and upset at the same time.. She was so neglectful, but you're right, she could've just dumped him off at the shelter or CL Free Dog and wiped her hands of it. I don't know how she didn't die of shame to have someone come into her environment and see the living conditions.. but oh well. Water under the bridge now I suppose. She's texted a couple of times to ask how he is settling. She cares.. in a very odd way.. but she cares.

On a positive note! Mr Tucker learned the invaluable "sit." (ok, is in "process" of learning the sit. ) Yay, go Tucker. 





 
On a sidenote, I couldn't get all the nastiness out of him. He was insane in the bath. I got as much of that gray nasty out of his neck, but not all as you can see. The rest of his body is still pretty dirty. The trainer told me it is going to take a few baths to get all the yard crud out of him. I'm going to have to hire that done by someone with a strong set of arms. :crazy:


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Try peanut butter on the walls of the tub.
But since he's never been bathed, in his life, in all likelihood, it might never get real great.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

For bathing, try using a wet towel with a tiny bit of shampoo in it followed with a dry towel and brushing. Works wonders for me.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

What you can do is to leave him off leash. If he likes likes treats, throw the treats and condition him on the clicker. Then, once you charged the clicker, throw the treats, anytime he picks the treat up you call his name. If he turns, click and throw the treat. That way you can get him to listen to his name really fast. 

Once that is down, throw the treat, call him and then "Sit" in a happy voice, that keeps him moving, back and forth, back and forth. Always throw the treat away from. 

Once you are ready to teach the down, you can do the same game. 

By keeping them moving you can accomplish three things. You can call his name (no re-call, just his name) and have him do a sit all the while you are exercising him.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree, with Mrs K...get him conditioned to learning/engaging without that darn prong diggin in constantly. Is there an area you can work w/ him off leash with tug/treats/ball reward? As soon as the prong/neck resisitance is out of the picture, I bet you see a different dog totally.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I just want to say that I think it is so awesome of you to take this on. Tucker is very lucky to have you and he looks like one awesome boy!!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Just kind of poppin' in on this; if you ever need any help let me know. Des Moines isn't that far away.


Oh thanks!!! How generous, I appreciate it. I'm open anytime you're down this way. (I work weekdays, day hours) My weekends are almost always open!



msvette2u said:


> Try peanut butter on the walls of the tub.
> But since he's never been bathed, in his life, in all likelihood, it might never get real great.


Yeaaah, tried that... one lick. And then I had to scrub the rest of it off haha.



PaddyD said:


> For bathing, try using a wet towel with a tiny bit of shampoo in it followed with a dry towel and brushing. Works wonders for me.





Mrs.K said:


> What you can do is to leave him off leash. If he likes likes treats, throw the treats and condition him on the clicker. Then, once you charged the clicker, throw the treats, anytime he picks the treat up you call his name. If he turns, click and throw the treat. That way you can get him to listen to his name really fast.
> 
> Once that is down, throw the treat, call him and then "Sit" in a happy voice, that keeps him moving, back and forth, back and forth. Always throw the treat away from.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. Sounds like a good thing to try.



onyx'girl said:


> I agree, with Mrs K...get him conditioned to learning/engaging without that darn prong diggin in constantly. Is there an area you can work w/ him off leash with tug/treats/ball reward? As soon as the prong/neck resisitance is out of the picture, I bet you see a different dog totally.


I am working with him outside on a long lead (attached to a tieout), but on a flat collar now. He's so interested in me, he doesn't pull against it. We've been playing with a tennis ball on a rope and a kong toy on a rope. I'm only using that prong now to walk around the house outside. Just walking the yard boundaries, letting him sniff. We haven't done a "real" walk anywhere yet, as per that 2 week shutdown plan.

Speaking of the prong, what do you think of his prong?

Bailey's prong is (obviously) the smaller one. Is Tucker's too big or is Bailey's too small?  Also wondering about quality of this prong. If even a good quality prong would've discolored his neck like that. I don't think that grayish stuff is dirt afterall, as another poster said earlier. He's not wearing the prong anymore, other than the walks I talked about, but I'm going to need one for a good amount of time. Wondering if this one is good enough to keep using for the walks. Thanks.!


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

personally I prefer the smaller ones. The big ones people equate with more power but IMO the smaller ones give quicker corrections rather then just some big bulky thing digging into their neck. I could be wrong but thats how I've always felt. Also, that chain of his is just overkill IMO poor guy.

BTW I LOVE bailey's prong and can't wait to get a HS. 

Also when we sued to use the cheap metal choke chains (I know I know this was years ago) they would almost always turn the dogs neck silver after awhile.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

You deserve credit and an award Chelle.Thanks for helping Tucker so he can have a great life!


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

chelle said:


> Oh thanks!!! How generous, I appreciate it. I'm open anytime you're down this way. (I work weekdays, day hours) My weekends are almost always open!



Not a problem! I'm free pretty much every weekend (I'm going home this weekend, but can swing by DesMoines Sunday if you feel you would like a hand) just send me a PM whenever; I'm kinda bad about checking back with threads lol. 

As far as the prong goes, I like the smaller ones better. Sasha has a big one, but I am hoping to change to a smaller one, as she needs a different one anyway (wrong size).


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

I didn't say it was dirt or I don't think I did :-/ but Rockys white main never stayed unless we left the choker off or gave him one heck of a bath and scrubed and scrubed his neck, and most of the time it went away completly or was at least almost un-noticable. But I did a lil research and found it could be a nickel allergy and could even cause a rash as well in some dogs. He sure is a cutie. The big ole moose :wub: keep him you know u wanna!!! Lol


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

He has the sweetest face, and seems so eager to please <3


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I use the larger gauge prong for a thicker coated dog...the smaller ones don't go deep enough into the coat. That said, I prefer the smaller gauge HS. Because Tucker has been tied out on the prong, his neck is desensitized, I'm sure. The prong should be fitted to lay right under the ears/higher on the neck. I would take it off of him unless it is attached to a leash.



> You deserve credit and an award Chelle.Thanks for helping Tucker so he can have a great life!


Agree!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> Not a problem! I'm free pretty much every weekend (I'm going home this weekend, but can swing by DesMoines Sunday if you feel you would like a hand) just send me a PM whenever; I'm kinda bad about checking back with threads lol.


Well, again, thank you so much. I didn't see this in time, but a friend stopped over and she's offering to help out, too. How I love dog people!!!!!



ChristenHolden said:


> *I didn't say it was dirt or I don't think I did* :-/ but Rockys white main never stayed unless we left the choker off or gave him one heck of a bath and scrubed and scrubed his neck, and most of the time it went away completly or was at least almost un-noticable. But I did a lil research and found it could be a nickel allergy and could even cause a rash as well in some dogs. He sure is a cutie. The big ole moose :wub: keep him you know u wanna!!! Lol


I was actually agreeing that you were right, but I said it wrong! Once I read it back, I didn't word it right. I agree, it isn't dirt. He's only wearing the prong for walks around the outside of the house now, so with some more scrubbing and time, I'm sure it'll go away. Poor dude was sleeping and living with that thing on non-stop.

Big ole moose is RIGHT. Holy crap he is strong!



iBaman said:


> He has the sweetest face, and seems so eager to please <3


He is. He's been so attention starved. He's so very much a pup yet... a big pup with no manners hehe. Well, on the positive side, he makes Bailey appear to be the best trained dog in the world. :laugh:



onyx'girl said:


> I use the larger gauge prong for a thicker coated dog...the smaller ones don't go deep enough into the coat. That said, I prefer the smaller gauge HS. Because Tucker has been tied out on the prong, his neck is desensitized, I'm sure. The prong should be fitted to lay right under the ears/higher on the neck. I would take it off of him unless it is attached to a leash.


I took a couple prongs out to get it to fit higher and more snug. I'm not using it for anything other than walks around the outside yard boundaries. If not walking, I'm putting him on a tieout to a flat collar. This is no problem, as we're hanging around outside together. He doesn't want to go anywhere. He wants to be where I am. Maybe explore to the end of the tie-out, but that's it. 

Could be my imagination, but he seems very pleased to not have to sleep in a prong anymore. 

*~~ Today's update ~~*
(I'm going to try to post plenty of updates. For one, I want to see our progress on the hard days. :crazy: The hard days are getting ready to start, as the workweek is starting.) For two, I want the future owner to know where this dude came from.)! I deeply appreciate anyone and everyone who can stick thru the Tucker saga. 

I've made a lot of progress with Tucker's jumping up. Note the "I." No one else can keep him from jumping up. The trainer that came yesterday got jumped on a lot. She was very calm and patient. He had the prong on. When he got to jumping up, she took him by the leash (attached to the prong) and made him go down. Tucker would then try to twist on her. He even got a little nippy. He never growled or got aggressive. She did make some progress, it seemed, but boy did he like jumping on her. After awhile, though, Tucker was stressed. That was likely more mental work than he had ever experienced.

Today a friend came over and holy holy he totally wanted to jump on her. She kept turning her back to him, so he jumped on her back and after a bit of that, he tried to get ahold of her coat hood. I was staying out of it, because she is a dog lover and she can hold her own... but he was really getting wonky with her. Again, he may have been stressed, as I'd been out working with him awhile and he did appear fixated to continue to do this... so she stepped out of the reach of the tieout and we shut it down there.

Tucker is also doing some jumping up on my bf.. but the boyfriend's immediate reaction is to put his arms out there, and you can just see Tucker thinks *that* is a great game. Makes it worse. When I picked him up from the former owner, she did the same when Tucker jumped on her. Arms, arms, waving around, pushing him back, he'd jump back up, gee what a great, fun game. (probably the only game that ever got him attention is what I'm thinking.)

I don't understand. I am not a rocket scientist here, much less a master dog trainer, but Tucker is not doing this with me. This may sound bad, but at first when we got home and were outside together and he started that nonsense, he got a pretty firm knee in the chest along with an OFF. (I use "off" for jumping up with all the dogs, I can't change it now, too ingrained.) And he got a few more knees along the way.. but he was heavily praised and treated as soon as he put four legs on the ground. 

I am not going to speak against the trainer's method, but seems to me that may have been ticking him off, pulling against that prong like that? 

Turning a back on Tucker doesn't seem to be effective, either, though. I swear, Tucker was literally assaulting my friend. She was patient as the day is long, but he would not stop. She treated and praised each time he ceased, but then he was right back at it. 

To watch this short vid clip, you'll think "BIG DEAL"  I should've taken vid of his crazy jumping up, so you can see the difference. He really is a wild, wild child with the jumping up and 70 lbs of strong dog jumping all over is... well, you know what it is. CRAZY. So what is it? Is a knee in the chest just that much more effective? Is it because he is at least partially bonded to me? Why is he "assaulting" others?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think he respects you. The new people are just that, new/fun no demands.

A knee isn't what I'd do, just because I'd hate to hurt my knee or the dog. The word OFF probably now has meaning to him. Popping the prong may work, but his neck is hardened to that, so it may be in-effective(or ramping him up)
You are doing well with him, that video showed his willingness to please.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

chelle said:


> Well, again, thank you so much. I didn't see this in time, but a friend stopped over and she's offering to help out, too. How I love dog people!!!!!


LOL No I didn't mean today. I meant this up coming Sunday. Glad you have a friend that's willing to help! It can make things easier to have an extra set of hands and eyes!


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## KAKZooKpr (Jul 6, 2002)

When I first got my girl Lexi she was a total freak about jumping up on me, nipping & paws flailing away! She was 10 months old when I got her & she didn't even have a name.  She pretty much just lived in a kennel run with little real attention. It took a long time for her to settle down. I had to wear long sleeves because of the nipping. I had tiny little bruise dots all over my arms! She would get so excited for attention she couldn't help herself. I tried everything to stop the jumping, it just took time for her to learn the "Off" command & for it to "sink in". Turning my back seemed to make the biggest impression, anything physical just got her more fired up. I also started handing her toys as she would come out of her crate so her mouth would have something to do!  She always has to have something in her mouth, otherwise she will still get spazzy. She can still get worked up with me occasionally & with some people that she knows well. She is fairly aloof to strangers. She just turned 5 this month.

You are doing a great job taking in Tucker. It's just going to take time for him to settle in and realize he will get attention and love.

I look forward to seeing his progress. :thumbup:

Kristina


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

we used knees, and also when he gets sit down pact, start making everyone have him sit before they pet him...this worked WONDERS with him jumping up, and the kids get a kick out of him obeying them. Until then though, I would use knees...may seem mean, but some dogs need a firmer correction than others.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

If it were me, I would take the dog. I would then fall in love and end up keeping him (kudos to you if you are able to rehome him!) It will be very hard. Are you able to separate him from the other dogs until he calms down a bit and has better manners? I suggest using a tie out if the dog has a history of climbing/jumping the fence. We use one for Daisy when she goes out. She has never gotten out of our yard here, but she got out of our yard up north and she could easily get over our fence here (she hasn't figured that out yet.)


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I think he respects you. The new people are just that, new/fun no demands.
> 
> A knee isn't what I'd do, just because I'd hate to hurt my knee or the dog. The word OFF probably now has meaning to him. Popping the prong may work, but his neck is hardened to that, so it may be in-effective(or ramping him up)
> You are doing well with him, that video showed his willingness to please.


Thank you. It only took a few times and he no longer jumps up on me. Occasionally he'll do this jump up thing, but straight up and doesn't make any contact with me. OFF puts him right back down, usually in a sit. I promise, I didn't knee him really hard, just hard enough to get his attention. 



NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> LOL No I didn't mean today. I meant this up coming Sunday. Glad you have a friend that's willing to help! It can make things easier to have an extra set of hands and eyes!


Oh okay good! I'm going to see how this week goes to know more about what we need to work on, and where I need help, so I might take you up on that. I'll PM. Thank you!



KAKZooKpr said:


> When I first got my girl Lexi she was a total freak about jumping up on me, nipping & paws flailing away! She was 10 months old when I got her & she didn't even have a name.  She pretty much just lived in a kennel run with little real attention. It took a long time for her to settle down. I had to wear long sleeves because of the nipping. I had tiny little bruise dots all over my arms! She would get so excited for attention she couldn't help herself. I tried everything to stop the jumping, it just took time for her to learn the "Off" command & for it to "sink in". Turning my back seemed to make the biggest impression, anything physical just got her more fired up. I also started handing her toys as she would come out of her crate so her mouth would have something to do!  She always has to have something in her mouth, otherwise she will still get spazzy. She can still get worked up with me occasionally & with some people that she knows well. She is fairly aloof to strangers. She just turned 5 this month.
> 
> You are doing a great job taking in Tucker. It's just going to take time for him to settle in and realize he will get attention and love.
> 
> ...


Ok, thank you... a toy coming out of the crate, that could help. He tries to BOLT out of the crate, crazy, crazy man. 



iBaman said:


> we used knees, and also when he gets sit down pact, start making everyone have him sit before they pet him...this worked WONDERS with him jumping up, and the kids get a kick out of him obeying them. Until then though, I would use knees...may seem mean, but some dogs need a firmer correction than others.


I hate the knee thing, especially by strangers who may do so too hard.. but I'm scratching my head since the other methods didn't appear to work too well. Sigh.

I am feeling very guilty for how much he is being crated. I'm trying to following the two week shutdown plan for the most part. I am taking him outside to play every few hours with some work thrown in, too and it seems to exhaust him? He doesn't want to go back in the crate afterwards, but once in there, he settles right down... but usually sits there and watches the antics of us moving around, me working in the kitchen, etc. He just sits there and watches. Right now, though, he is stone cold crashed *out*. He's getting little exercise, really, (throwing balls, nothing much) but mental excursions a few times a day. (Sit at the door before going out, practicing sit outside, etc) Is mental work, to a dog that's never had it, really that tiring? Or is the poor dude just depressed in there?


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Chelle, I just now caught this. 

Kudos to you, girl.


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## idahospud49 (Jan 28, 2011)

I think using knees, simply as a blocking, not as a KNEEING/jabbing motion can be a good way to go.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

Mental work is HUGELY exhausting, especially when it's new. Ive seen it happen over and over with dogs. Even our Koshka, who is pretty mellow by landshark standards, gets worn out if I give him some good mental workouts when I can't get him out to run more


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

OriginalWacky said:


> Mental work is HUGELY exhausting, especially when it's new. Ive seen it happen over and over with dogs. Even our Koshka, who is pretty mellow by landshark standards, gets worn out if I give him some good mental workouts when I can't get him out to run more


Ok, good to hear.

*~~ NEWEST PROBLEM ~~*

Tucker absolutely CHARGES out of his crate. I'm ready for it and "block" him so I can get a leash on his buckle collar. Then he proceeds to DRAG me to the door. At the door, I have him do a sit, and he complies. Then I open the door and he CHARGES down the few stairs. Then at the second door (to get outside) I have him do a sit also. I open the door and he CHARGES out. ANYthing on leash is a pulling expedition and I'm just shy of barely in control. I'm fairly strong, Thank God. Since he wore a prong so long, pressure on his neck of a flat collar means nothing to him.

Any ideas?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

When he charges the door, shut it. He doesn't get to go out until you release him. Once he is outside the door, he sits again until you shut the door and release him. If he gets up, he has to start all over. Back inside, sit, release


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Fit the prong tight, right under his ears and pop him when he pulls out like that....it may or may not work, but I think he'll show hesitation if it happens a few times. Praise him quietly when he calmly goes out. This advice doesn't work for every dog(or even something I'd recommend often), but I think Tucker is so crazy/happy that a physical correction may make him think more.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Looks like Tucker got a little more of the husky genes...I suggest the prong, he's old enough to use it and it will snap him into obeying quicker than trying to motivate a 70 pound dog that can drag you around like that.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

If he is food motivated, have treats (or kibble if that works) on you. Have him sit in the crate until he is leashed, come out of the crate, sit again. Encourage him to stay with you rather than charging to the door by having treats with you. And by changing your routine. He doesn't go directly outside from being released from the crate, maybe he goes to get some water, maybe he just lies down. Break up your routine a bit. (I understand you may be house breaking and for now you may need to go outside directly from the crate.)


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> When he charges the door, shut it. He doesn't get to go out until you release him. Once he is outside the door, he sits again until you shut the door and release him. If he gets up, he has to start all over. Back inside, sit, release


THIS worked wonders. Great, great success tonight. Patience is key. :laugh: I did learn Tucker isn't hugely food motivated unless it is high value stuff. Cheese. Meatballs. Shredded chicken. Just plain 'ole dog training treats, nope. 



onyx'girl said:


> Fit the prong tight, right under his ears and pop him when he pulls out like that....it may or may not work, but I think he'll show hesitation if it happens a few times. Praise him quietly when he calmly goes out. This advice doesn't work for every dog(or even something I'd recommend often), but I think Tucker is so crazy/happy that a physical correction may make him think more.


I may have to go this route. Don't want to, but may need to. He is showing sensitivity to his neck. When I attach the leash, he puts a paw up.. he doesn't get aggressive, but you can tell he's sensitive. I can rub his neck and tell him good boy! just fine, but attach anything, and he gets a bit antsy. I doubt he ever had a "proper" correction with how big the prong was on him. I want to wait on this a little bit. He's so human-sweet, this boy. I want to develop our relationship a little more before I break that out. I know the knee thing was harsh, but it only took a few times and he no longer jumps up, or if he does even begin to, a simple OFF puts him down asap. He's sensitive, I think, because he's starving and loving all the praise. Poor baby.



middleofnowhere said:


> If he is food motivated, have treats (or kibble if that works) on you. Have him sit in the crate until he is leashed, come out of the crate, sit again. Encourage him to stay with you rather than charging to the door by having treats with you. And by changing your routine. He doesn't go directly outside from being released from the crate, maybe he goes to get some water, maybe he just lies down. Break up your routine a bit. (I understand you may be house breaking and for now you may need to go outside directly from the crate.)


Great advice, to change the routine and we did that some tonight. Thanks for that, really worked out well. Not perfect, but better than expected.

We're getting there... slowly... getting somewhere.

This boy is just so sweet. He does need a firm hand. He tried to hump me tonight.  Ummm not sure if that's love or what the heck it is... Shut him down, he instantly stopped, didn't repeat.

I'm getting him neutered this week. I don't want to try two intact males in the same house.

Interesting turn tonight... the trainer that came to work wiht me Saturday is a member of the dog training facility that I've been taking Bailey. My trainer is also an employee of the local shelter. (I talked to the trainer tonight about Tucker.) (I know that was confusing, but point being -- small world when it comes to dog people!) I've had several people tell me to take Tucker to the shelter - that he's a nice boy and would be pretty easily adopted. My trainer said, oh no, no. 70 lbs + no housetraining + not housebroken = NO ADOPTION. She works there, I trust her and I trust you guys here, too. 

He's a wild child :wild::wub: but he's a very nice dog. I'm going to learn a lot with this boy. I was super proud at how fast he caught on tonight. Might be a honeymoon phase, but I think it is important groundwork, too. It sure is going to require a "special" kind of owner to take this boy over.....

Thanks for sticking thru this with me! LONG way to go!!!!!!!!!


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I have to agree. He'll have a much better chance of getting adopted- and staying in that home- once he's learned manners and basic obedience.


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## KAKZooKpr (Jul 6, 2002)

How about trying a harness with a front attachment like a "Sense-ation" No Pull Harness? 

SENSE-ation No Pull Dog Harness

My friend had GREAT success with her large Pit mix. He used to drag her around until she tried this. Now she swears by it! 

Kristina


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

KAKZooKpr said:


> How about trying a harness with a front attachment like a "Sense-ation" No Pull Harness?
> 
> SENSE-ation No Pull Dog Harness
> 
> ...


I have a very strong 85lb dog and the easy walk harness works great with him


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

KAKZooKpr said:


> How about trying a harness with a front attachment like a "Sense-ation" No Pull Harness?
> 
> SENSE-ation No Pull Dog Harness
> 
> ...


Ok, thanks, Kristina! -- I'll be looking into various collars in the days ahead for sure! I'd love to get him away from the prong. He is neck-sensitive. He's obviously been yanked around by the neck/collar too many times for him. 

*~~ UPDATE ! ~~ :crazy:*

Tucker's neuter appt. is Friday. I took the day off. I'm anxious. He is going to be a HANDFUL at the vet.

The two week shutdown plan, I think, is almost magic. He is excellent in his crate. He watches. He's never lunged at any dog that came to sniff. He just.. watches. I can totally see how it would've been a massive mistake to just bring him in the house. He needs to see how the house functions. He watches as I give the dogs commands. He watches when I feed Bailey, and Bailey must sit first, etc, and so on. He's taking all of that in. He's learning our house rituals. 

What do you think of this interaction between Tucker and Bailey? Tucker is outside the door, on a tieout. Bailey is on the inside. The whining is all Bailey. (Incidentally, I put Tucker on the tieout for very short periods only and only while I'm doing other dog stuff, and I'm checking constantly. He never leaves the door. He sits there and stares inside. This dog is not an outside dog. He desperately wants to be inside with all of us.)

Anyway, what do you think?


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

KAKZooKpr said:


> How about trying a harness with a front attachment like a "Sense-ation" No Pull Harness?
> 
> SENSE-ation No Pull Dog Harness
> 
> ...


What is to prevent them from just backing out of it?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My thoughts...

1) you are doing a fantastic job! 
2) I think Tucker was trying to make friends with Bailey through the door
3) you are doing a fantastic job!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

They do look like they want to play! I agree with Jax 1,2,3!


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## StryderPup (May 16, 2009)

WOW! I think they look like they want to play, or that they think they are looking in a mirror


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

Hey Chelle just a quick recommendation (that may mean nothing lol) If you just have a regular cheap harness laying around you can clip the leash on the hook on the front and it works pretty much the same as a no pull harness and would at least let you see if it would be worth spending the money on a no pull. I like the regular harness because you can leave it on during the day then just clip on the front to take out for potty breaks etc... helps control them better then a regular collar because as they pull it turns them back to you. Doesn't matter if you don't have one laying around but if you do just a little tip


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Chelle, are you teaching the 'wait' command. That is what I use for when they have to 'wait' to be released. Either coming out of crate or doors. Works for the car too. On off leash walks when they get ahead of me 'wait' then I catch up. The knee in the chest is fine if that is what is going to work for him, every dog is different. I have always used 'off' for a command. Cheap hot dogs in the big packages are great for training. Cut them up into small pieces. I have also used dry cat food. Keep it in your pocket for rewarding at any time. It comes in small pieces, is dry and they love it. Sounds like you are making great progress.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Holmeshx2 said:


> Hey Chelle just a quick recommendation (that may mean nothing lol) If you just have a regular cheap harness laying around you can clip the leash on the hook on the front and it works pretty much the same as a no pull harness and would at least let you see if it would be worth spending the money on a no pull. I like the regular harness because you can leave it on during the day then just clip on the front to take out for potty breaks etc... helps control them better then a regular collar because as they pull it turns them back to you. Doesn't matter if you don't have one laying around but if you do just a little tip


another trick for no pull is putting a leash around the back near the rear legs, loop it over the back and when the dog pulls, it will tighten at the "weenie" dubbed a weenie walker. I used this for some dogs I'd pull from shelters for transport if they didn't have a no slip collar. double safety feature and dogs that are chained up(many 'strays' are chained dogs no longer) are strong in the neck, but not so much down there. 
Very sensitive area...


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> My thoughts...
> 
> 1) you are doing a fantastic job!
> 2) I think Tucker was trying to make friends with Bailey through the door
> 3) you are doing a fantastic job!


Thank you, thank you. And let me add another thank you. I am so mentally exhausted right now.



onyx'girl said:


> They do look like they want to play! I agree with Jax 1,2,3!


Ditto above!



Holmeshx2 said:


> Hey Chelle just a quick recommendation (that may mean nothing lol) If you just have a regular cheap harness laying around you can clip the leash on the hook on the front and it works pretty much the same as a no pull harness and would at least let you see if it would be worth spending the money on a no pull. I like the regular harness because you can leave it on during the day then just clip on the front to take out for potty breaks etc... helps control them better then a regular collar because as they pull it turns them back to you. Doesn't matter if you don't have one laying around but if you do just a little tip


I do have a harness, I'll try that this weekend.



onyx'girl said:


> another trick for no pull is putting a leash around the back near the rear legs, loop it over the back and when the dog pulls, it will tighten at the "weenie" dubbed a weenie walker. I used this for some dogs I'd pull from shelters for transport if they didn't have a no slip collar. double safety feature and dogs that are chained up(many 'strays' are chained dogs no longer) are strong in the neck, but not so much down there.
> Very sensitive area...


Mmm ok! We'll try the 'ole weenie walker - but Tucker is getting neutered tomorrow, so best put this idea on hold for a bit. 

*~~UPDATE~~*
I'm TIRED. Mentally exhausted! This is hard. I knew it would be. I just didn't know how hard it would actually be.

It doesn't help that the people closest to me think I'm an idiot for taking Tucker in. That hurts. Zero support from those I need it from most.

The true "dog" people in my life are very supportive, though. (Wish there were more people like this.)

Tucker seems to get stressed rather easily. I spend time outside with him and later I take him down to the "dog room" and throw a ball, then make him do some sits.. try to mix up "work" with play. He does very well, but before long at all, he seems stressed. I'll have to try to get a video of that. Maybe I'm interpreting that wrong.

Tonight, twice, as we worked in the dog room, he tried to hump me. What is that? I shut him down with a nice, firm NO and he quit right away. 

I had to go bawl a little bit tonight. Did I make a mistake? I'm seeing such nice progress in some ways, but I'm also seeing what a loooong road this will likely be. I remember feeling this way at times with Bailey, too - and Bails and I have come out on the other side of that.  Seriously, Tucker makes Bailey appear to be the best behaved dog on the planet. 

On a positive... (MUST focus on the positives!) Tucker has improved *dramatically* on coming out of his crate. He LAYS in the crate until I TELL him to come out. It's a thing of beauty. Thank you everyone for the advice on dealing with that. Focus on the postive, right? 

SO glad I have tomorrow off. Tucker is getting neutered tomorrow.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

I was hoping you would update...I think you're doing an awesome job!! Just think, pretty soon, you'll be able to look over at your two well behaved brothers, and take all the credit for making them that way!!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

chelle said:


> Ok, good to hear.
> 
> *~~ NEWEST PROBLEM ~~*
> 
> ...





Jax08 said:


> When he charges the door, shut it. He doesn't get to go out until you release him. Once he is outside the door, he sits again until you shut the door and release him. If he gets up, he has to start all over. Back inside, sit, release





dawnandjr said:


> Chelle, are you teaching the 'wait' command. That is what I use for when they have to 'wait' to be released. Either coming out of crate or doors. Works for the car too. On off leash walks when they get ahead of me 'wait' then I catch up. The knee in the chest is fine if that is what is going to work for him, every dog is different. I have always used 'off' for a command. Cheap hot dogs in the big packages are great for training. Cut them up into small pieces. I have also used dry cat food. Keep it in your pocket for rewarding at any time. It comes in small pieces, is dry and they love it. Sounds like you are making great progress.


This was for your newest problem  hope I'm not too late with the advice! All of the above I would combine in one! lol. My new girl Athena, is an almost 5 month old Boerboel at 55 lbs.. she is pretty powerful right now and is all puppy! Haha. Anywho.. she used to CHARGE out of her kennel. It was terrible.. she bull dozed over everything! It was then that I decided she needed the "sit" "wait" and a release command, mine is "ok" Every morning when I let her out of her kennel she has to "sit pretty" another one i taught her because she likes to lazy sit and it drives me crazy! LOL. any who.. she has to "sit" then "wait" then I say "ok" she goes to the back door and "sit" "wait" "ok" when I open the door. Those were pretty simple to teach her.. I started with one and gradually added the other. If starts to charge when you let him out.. shut the crate door and make him sit.. he doesn't get out of his kennel until he is sitting.. he doesn't have to do anything else but sit.. After he has that down, introduce "wait" he doesn't get out of his kennel until until he sits and waits until you say "ok" or your release. It worked WONDERS with Athena.. I can tell her to sit and wait anywhere and she will.. until her little puppy brain goes "Wait, why am I just sitting here.." Then off she goes.. LOL but it's getting longer and longer everytime.

On another note.. have you tried a head collar? Titan was a beast when we were on walks.. 95 lbs of pure muscle pulling little me.. I bought the head collar and it took a little getting used to for him.. He now doesn't pull ever.. any time he tries.. his head gets pulled into me.. and he doesn't like it. I have never used a prong collar so I can only suggest what I have used and what has worked for me.. Hope that helps! So far looks like youare doing fantastic with him! Keep it up and don't beat yourself up if things don't go your way one day.. there's always the next!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

*Neuter Today.. update*

*~~Update~~*

Back from the vet. Surgery went fine. Heartworm check was neg, as was the fecal. 

I'm told he was quite a pill. They said he shredded and peed on whatever they put in his crate. He was incessent with licking, so he earned the cone and fought it a lot. He was able to get it totally off once. 

I was surprised at his crate behavior, because that is the one thing I've had zero trouble with. (other than his first night home.) He's never soiled his crate, either. I'm sure he was highly stressed.

He whined the whole way home. I had to help him get up the stairs because the cone scraping the step seemed to scare him.. no easy task..










Got him inside and in his crate. I was worried how he would be able to settle down with that big thing on his head, but he calmed down right away:










Sidenote: I figured out several+ days ago what food he was on. Beneful. Thankfully due to all its cute little shapes and colors, it's easy to figure out. Doing a switchover to 4Health. Excellent poop.

*My Questions!*

--I am really going to have to manage this head cone for 7 to 10 days? 
--Is there anything else? Would Petco have a better style of cone? 
--Is there anything I can put on the incision itself that he would not want to lick, but would be safe?

Thank you!


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

They make an inflatable one that makes it so they just can't turn their head. Looked pretty cool, may want to try it!!
And you can try bitter spray!! Works on some, doesn't on others...best bet is to take him into petsmart and test to see if it works. (whatever you do, DON'T put your hands in your mouth after spraying....when they say bitter, they mean BITTER)


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There are soft cones but depending on where the incision is and how limber he is, he might still be able to get to it. The one I have for Jax is black. Can't remember the name.

ETA: Here it is!
Buy The Comfy Cone Soft E-Collar, 25 cm, Large & More | drugstore.com


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Comfycones are nicer on the dog and the walls, but not sure you can find one local. Petco has it on the internet, not sure they carry them in stores: All Four Paws Black Comfy Cone at PETCO

Good to read he is clear of worms! 
vitamin e on the incision will help heal, but won't stop the pain. My moms little ankle biter was neutered right before Christmas and he chewed 2 of his stitches out. He healed ok, but that cone was necessary. 
What a handsome boy he is! I hope his recovery goes smoothly.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I couldn't find them locally. Ordered mine off Amazon


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> There are soft cones but depending on where the incision is and how limber he is, he might still be able to get to it. The one I have for Jax is black. Can't remember the name.
> 
> ETA: Here it is!
> 
> ...


I see you have the large size? How big is your dog? I'm assuming I need the large as well. Petco has (in stock) small, med, large, but no xlarge.



iBaman said:


> They make an inflatable one that makes it so they just can't turn their head. Looked pretty cool, may want to try it!!
> And you can try bitter spray!! Works on some, doesn't on others...best bet is to take him into petsmart and test to see if it works. (whatever you do, DON'T put your hands in your mouth after spraying....when they say bitter, they mean BITTER)


I saw that one, but the reviews weren't very good. ? I have some Bitter Apple, but you don't mean put that directly on the wound or ? 



onyx'girl said:


> Comfycones are nicer on the dog and the walls, but not sure you can find one local. Petco has it on the internet, not sure they carry them in stores: All Four Paws Black Comfy Cone at PETCO
> 
> Good to read he is clear of worms!
> vitamin e on the incision will help heal, but won't stop the pain. My moms little ankle biter was neutered right before Christmas and he chewed 2 of his stitches out. He healed ok, but that cone was necessary.
> What a handsome boy he is! I hope his recovery goes smoothly.


He's absolutely crashed out in the crate. What a hard day for him.

I just called Petco and they carry the Comfy Cone. $10 higher than online - $37.99, ouch, but I think I'll try it anyway. Someday Bailey will probably need it.

Anything I can do about the pain for him that is safe?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Here's the sizing for the comfy cone! I can't remember what size I bought for Jax. I think it's a large because she has a 16" neck

All Four Paws - Home of the Comfy Cone


The comfy cone will not freak him out like the hard e-collar. it gives when he runs into something so he won't be bouncing off things like with the plastic.


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## KAKZooKpr (Jul 6, 2002)

PaddyD said:


> What is to prevent them from just backing out of it?


If it's fitted properly, he shouldn't be able to. It goes around the body behind the shoulders like a standard harness.


Kristina


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Petco has those on sale online for $28. I think with shipping I paid about that.

All Four Paws Black Comfy Cone at PETCO


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## KAKZooKpr (Jul 6, 2002)

I've had great success using a "Bite Not" collar. It's made of stiff plastic the fits around the neck from the back of the ears to the top of the shoulders. It fastens with velcro & there is a strap that wraps behind the front legs to keep it in place. They look like a neck brace like you'd wear for whiplash. 

BiteNot Collar - Dog.com

















Kristina


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> Here's the sizing for the comfy cone! I can't remember what size I bought for Jax. I think it's a large because she has a 16" neck
> 
> All Four Paws - Home of the Comfy Cone
> 
> The comfy cone will not freak him out like the hard e-collar. it gives when he runs into something so he won't be bouncing off things like with the plastic.


Ok, thank you. I'm going to go run over to Petco and pick one up. I don't have time to wait for shipping, so I'll suck up the extra $$$$ Tucker is not that much bigger than Bailey, but his fur is much thicker. Bailey is also 16 inches, if I'm measuring right. 

*Thanks*, everyone. Please, please remain on alert for whatever my next issue may be. :shocked:


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

There's certain kinds of bitter spray you can put on wounds. I think you just need to make sure there's no alcohol in it. Mine is used for hot spots, wounds and all sorts of stuff. I think it's Bitter Yuck =3


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The inflatable ones are nice and I tried it, but my dog(the oldest one) acted like she was suffocating..such a drama queen..dry heeves and all..so I took it off:crazy:


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## le_marie (Feb 24, 2012)

Hi Chelle!

I have been reading your story for a while and I am praying everything will work out fine! In any circumstance, I was curious if you found out the reason for the floppy ear? 

Keep it up! Tucker is worth it!


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Chelle, 
Just saw this and caught up on the situation. Just wanted to add, you are doing an amazing thing for this pup!! Thank you!:wub::hug: He is so cute, floppy ear and all.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

KAKZooKpr said:


> I've had great success using a "Bite Not" collar. It's made of stiff plastic the fits around the neck from the back of the ears to the top of the shoulders. It fastens with velcro & there is a strap that wraps behind the front legs to keep it in place. They look like a neck brace like you'd wear for whiplash.
> 
> BiteNot Collar - Dog.com
> 
> ...


This looks like a better idea than the cone.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

iBaman said:


> There's certain kinds of bitter spray you can put on wounds. I think you just need to make sure there's no alcohol in it. Mine is used for hot spots, wounds and all sorts of stuff. I think it's Bitter Yuck =3


Ok, yes, I read the Bitter Apple bottle and it says you can apply it topically. When I was at Petco, I picked up another bottle that says, "no sting." 



le_marie said:


> Hi Chelle!
> 
> I have been reading your story for a while and I am praying everything will work out fine! In any circumstance, I was curious if you found out the reason for the floppy ear?
> 
> Keep it up! Tucker is worth it!


Thank you. No, I have no idea why that ear does not stand. It was suggested that I feel for a difference in thickness, but I really cannot tell a difference. Could just be genetics, I suppose, but I've kept track of his other littermates - the ones I could - and the three that I know of, plus Bailey making four, all have tall, standing ears. Tucker's ears are nice, pink and healthy on the inside. The former owner never mentioned health issues, but then again, she only took him for his first round of shots on 2/13/2012. (He was born 5/1/2011). So he never had healthcare of any kind. Yet, if he'd had an ear infection, it wouldn't have corrected on its own.? Confusing. I don't know. 



mysweetkaos said:


> Chelle,
> Just saw this and caught up on the situation. Just wanted to add, you are doing an amazing thing for this pup!! Thank you!:wub::hug: He is so cute, floppy ear and all.


Thank you . I think it is safe to say, he shall always have a floppy ear. It is pretty endearing, actually. :wub:


I got the Comfy Cone and I'm sitting here, wanting to get him out and re-fitted with the new cone. I offered him a handful of food just a bit ago -- _zero_ interest. He's crashed to the world in his crate. I don't want to disturb him. Between the anesthesia and fussing at the vet, this guy is knocked out. It's starting to worry me, how "lifeless" he is. Right now, he's laying very still, stretched out, but eyes open. Just appears totally exhausted. Really not sure if I should let him be or not.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Let him be, water, ok, wait til morning to feed him if he's still lethargic. Does he feel warm? Nose moist?
Ice cubes may be a yum to him. 
The ear thing, the only reason an infection would cause an ear to go soft is if he had a hematoma. Then you'd feel the thickening in the tissue. Sometimes a dog can get a hematoma and not have the ear go soft, other times it can damage the tissue. Just depends. And if it isn't treated, the damage is usually worse. Onyx had a hematoma, treated, her ear is fine other than it is very thick with scar tissue. Stands strong.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Let him be, water, ok, wait til morning to feed him if he's still lethargic. Does he feel warm? Nose moist?
> *Ice cubes may be a yum to him...*


Whoa, you nailed that on the head; he loved the icecubes. He feels warm, but his nose was dry. I offered him a drink when we got home, he took a few licks and didn't want it. He still doesn't want food; I tried to handfeed just a little kibble, but he turns his head. Earlier I tried to lure him up the steps with meatballs, and even that didn't work. I'm going to offer a few more icecubes, but I'm giving up on food for tonight. I'll be up for another hour or so, so if he gets to moving around or showing discomfort or needing to go potty, I'll get him out. He has nothing in his system to speak of, so he may not need to eliminate. According to the vet, he was peeing all over inside the crate there, and he's only had icecubes here, so there likely isn't much of anything in him. 

I'll be sleeping lightly tonight.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

His peeing may be due to the anesthesia, and he may have drooled to puddle it up some, too. I wouldn't worry about what the vet said. Hope he will pee a good one OUTside for you tomorrow AM. 

Get some rest! I bet every night he's been with you have been a "sleep lightly" night.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

KAKZooKpr said:


> I've had great success using a "Bite Not" collar. It's made of stiff plastic the fits around the neck from the back of the ears to the top of the shoulders. It fastens with velcro & there is a strap that wraps behind the front legs to keep it in place. They look like a neck brace like you'd wear for whiplash.
> 
> BiteNot Collar - Dog.com
> 
> ...


Just be aware that I had a do manage to lick herself with one of these on.


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## le_marie (Feb 24, 2012)

chelle said:


> Ok, yes, I read the Bitter Apple bottle and it says you can apply it topically. When I was at Petco, I picked up another bottle that says, "no sting."
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. No, I have no idea why that ear does not stand. It was suggested that I feel for a difference in thickness, but I really cannot tell a difference. Could just be genetics, I suppose, but I've kept track of his other littermates - the ones I could - and the three that I know of, plus Bailey making four, all have tall, standing ears. Tucker's ears are nice, pink and healthy on the inside. The former owner never mentioned health issues, but then again, she only took him for his first round of shots on 2/13/2012. (He was born 5/1/2011). So he never had healthcare of any kind. Yet, if he'd had an ear infection, it wouldn't have corrected on its own.? Confusing. I don't know.


Under the risk of saying something stupid (so take it with a grain of salt), from the experience I had with my GSDs (kept always outside the house), there are three possibilities: (a) he injured his ear at some point in time. That is what happened to one of my GSDs not long ago. Once this very special area in their ears gets injured (by a cut or something else), it does not go up again. Now, I have absolutely no idea what the medical term is..just explaining from what I was told; (b) I did have a GSD with a floppy ear because he had too much wax inside his ears. A good clean up solved the problem; (c) other possibility are ticks, but based on what you are telling me this possibility is out.

Then again, another possibility is that the ear never really went up. 

Again, I was just curious since my dog has the same issue. With floppy ear or not, Tucker is a gorgeous puppy! Hope he adapts to the new routine quickly!


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## KAKZooKpr (Jul 6, 2002)

PaddyD said:


> This looks like a better idea than the cone.


Thanks. My dogs were so much more comfortable with this than the cone, especially for when they were in their crates.

Kristina


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> His peeing may be due to the anesthesia, and he may have drooled to puddle it up some, too. I wouldn't worry about what the vet said. Hope he will pee a good one OUTside for you tomorrow AM.
> 
> Get some rest! I bet every night he's been with you have been a "sleep lightly" night.


He was up crying at 4AM. We managed a potty trip and back to the crate and quiet. He took a little water. He was starved by the time breakfast rolled around, about 7AM. Ate very heartily. I also must say, he has sure switched over to the 4Health very, very well. He's not all the way switched, but the change in his poop is amazing. Makes me tempted to put Bailey on it, too.



le_marie said:


> ... With floppy ear or not, Tucker is a gorgeous puppy! Hope he adapts to the new routine quickly!


Thank you. He's going to be oh-so-handsome when I get him properly cleaned. :laugh: I can't believe how deep yard-mud/crud goes into a dog's coat. He's had one bath and it hardly got it out. He can't have another for awhile, to keep the incision dry... and to give me time to gain some strength to tackle that adventure again. I don't care if his ear stands. Who knows why it doesn't, but neglect or damage can't be ruled out. 4 of the 7 of the litter have full erect ears. (The 4 that I've been able to keep in touch with.)



KAKZooKpr said:


> Thanks. My dogs were so much more comfortable with this than the cone, especially for when they were in their crates.
> 
> Kristina


I wish that collar had been available locally. By the time I would order one and have it shipped, we'd be nearly to the end of this ordeal. I'll certainly keep it in mind for when my other dog is neutered.

*~~*

As for the soft collar.. it won't fit. I bought the large. (they didn't have an x-large in stock) and I made Bailey be the guinea pig and put it on him. (He was NOT happy with me. ) If it is too small for Bailey, it is definitely going to be too small for Tucker. So, he's still wearing the plastic cone. He's not fighting it anymore though. Just bangin' around a bit. :laugh: 

I took him outside for awhile today and he wanted to play more than I think he should play. I tried to just keep him calm and practice some sits and walk around the yard. The sits also helped me be able to peek at the incision. I think it looks nasty, but I'm just not sure what it is "supposed" to look like? I have two spayed females and never had any problems at all. I'm clueless on this male stuff. I'm going to take a pic tomorrow in the daylight so someone can tell me if it looks ok.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

chelle said:


> *~~*
> 
> The sits also helped me be able to peek at the incision. I think it looks nasty, but I'm just not sure what it is "supposed" to look like? I have two spayed females and never had any problems at all. I'm clueless on this male stuff. I'm going to take a pic tomorrow in the daylight so someone can tell me if it looks ok.


Would much rather look at pictures of the dog trying to walk around with the cone on his head


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

llombardo said:


> Would much rather look at pictures of the dog trying to walk around with the cone on his head


Buahahaaa!!! :rofl: I feel so sorry for him, but it is funny in a mean way to watch the poor dog try to negotiate with that dumb thing on his head. He has acclimated to it amazingly well, though! Color me impressed with him!

The incision site pics may require a warning. :crazy:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The large was to small?! What size is that boy's neck!? lol You can take it back and get your money, right?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

chelle said:


> Buahahaaa!!! :rofl: I feel so sorry for him, but it is funny in a mean way to watch the poor dog try to negotiate with that dumb thing on his head. He has acclimated to it amazingly well, though! Color me impressed with him!
> 
> The incision site pics may require a warning. :crazy:


Imagine someone that comes to this thread to catch up and the first thing they see is that picture:wild: You are doing a good job with him, he's even crying to go outside to pee I think all of your hard work is going to pay off and you saved a dog's life...you can't beat that feeling And a video of him with the cone on is in order......poor dog-if only he knew we were making fun of him


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> The large was to small?! What size is that boy's neck!? lol You can take it back and get your money, right?


Too small more in regard to the snout, rather than the neck. The sizing video said the tip of the nose must stay inside the cone - and it doesn't. Sticks out *just* past. I'm thinking that *just* past might be enough for him to get at the incision. He's taking to the the cone so well, I'm not sure what to do at this point. 

Yes, it is refundable. Again, though, I did try it on Bailey and not on Tucker, but their actual snouts aren't *that* much different. Neck size, yes, but snout, not so much. 



llombardo said:


> Imagine someone that comes to this thread to catch up and the first thing they see is that picture:wild: You are doing a good job with him, he's even crying to go outside to pee I think all of your hard *work is going to pay off* and you saved a dog's life...*you can't beat that feeling* And a video of him with the cone on is in order......poor dog-if only he knew we were making fun of him


Ok, I will take video tomorrow, but *only* if you promise that we will laugh *with* him and not *at* him. :blush: 

I want this work to "pay off" in terms of him finding a nice, forever home. I can't be that home.  I have so many things I want to do with Bailey and I can't stretch so thin... Not to mention, my two older dogs with needs, too! But you know what? I do feel I did the right thing! He's a nice boy! Ok, so he jumps up, pulls like a wild-man, isn't housebroken, yadda ... We can work on that. Just tonight I got lambasted by a family member over this and it hurt. My son isn't speaking to me over this. Another family member is upset that I'm not taking off tomorrow to go spend 10+ hours away from home for a get-together. The only support comes from this forum and another where the real "dog people" support me. It's frustrating. 

I'm going to immediately quit caring what anyone thinks.

<<off soapbox>>


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

chelle said:


> My son isn't speaking to me over this.


This is where YOU need to get NASTY!!!! You are cleaning up HIS mess and he needs to be overwhelmingly grateful that you are. 
I would have a nice talk with him and let him know that YOU will not be speaking to HIM until he understands how his irresponsibility has effected others! (the dog, you, the other dogs in your house). 
I would turn into an absolute ring-tail beeyotch with his young butt!


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## koimr (Jan 11, 2012)

bocron said:


> This is where YOU need to get NASTY!!!! You are cleaning up HIS mess and he needs to be overwhelmingly grateful that you are.
> I would have a nice talk with him and let him know that YOU will not be speaking to HIM until he understands how his irresponsibility has effected others! (the dog, you, the other dogs in your house).
> I would turn into an absolute ring-tail beeyotch with his young butt!


This is my first post here (hiya!  ) and I've been following this thread and I totally agree with what bocron wrote.

Thank you for saving this dog.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

bocron said:


> This is where YOU need to get NASTY!!!! You are cleaning up HIS mess and he needs to be overwhelmingly grateful that you are.
> I would have a nice talk with him and let him know that YOU will not be speaking to HIM until he understands how his irresponsibility has effected others! (the dog, you, the other dogs in your house).
> I would turn into an absolute ring-tail beeyotch with his young butt!


He sees zero sense of responsibility in this and the family backs him up.

He, and the others, say the responsibility ended when the pup was sold.

I don't understand this. I love this dog's mother so incredibly much, that I could not stand for any of her offspring to be turned into a shelter without so much as a care? THIS is my family? Makes me deeply sad.

I am so, so, so glad I had her spayed so this can never happen again.

I'm remaining quiet with him for now. 

His cell bill comes due very soon. If it is not paid on time, it will be turned off. No warning. Just turned off.

The next time he needs something from me, I will not be available.

He has absolutely no idea how resolved I am on this. He's going to find out.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

chelle said:


> He sees zero sense of responsibility in this and the family backs him up.
> 
> He, and the others, say the responsibility ended when the pup was sold.
> 
> I don't understand this. I love this dog's mother so incredibly much, that I could not stand for any of her offspring to be turned into a shelter without so much as a care? THIS is my family? Makes me deeply sad.


Sadly, this is most of my family too, and many of the people I used to call friends. Is it any wonder I'm slowly turning into a hermit? 



> I am so, so, so glad I had her spayed so this can never happen again.
> 
> I'm remaining quiet with him for now.
> 
> ...


You go on with your bad self! I'll hang out over here and cheerlead you like crazy.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

chelle said:


> My son isn't speaking to me over this. Another family member is upset that I'm not taking off tomorrow to go spend 10+ hours away from home for a get-together. The only support comes from this forum and another where the real "dog people" support me. It's frustrating.
> 
> I'm going to immediately quit caring what anyone thinks.
> 
> <<off soapbox>>


Your son is not speaking to you over this? I'm not going to write what I think about that one...he is your son and eventually this will be in the past, but he does need to understand the lack of responsibility on his part and what a wonderful person you are for doing what your doing My family gets mad at me all the time because I can't do things that require long periods away from away, but they get over it because they know how I feel about my pets:hug:


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

I think Tucker is adorable. For some reason, the wild ones always tug at my heart. The cone issue makes me laugh b/c my male is getting neutered tomorrow...and he's a little wild also.

Maybe your son is upset b/c he is having to stare his irresponsibility in the face. I have no advice, but I am hoping he comes around and decides to help you out.

Good luck Chelle. I think you are doing a wonderful job.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

Cones are soooo funny!! We lived on the third floor when Sheldon got neutered, and him going down the stairs in his cone was so sad it was funny!! (we've got a video somewhere, but it's on my SO's phone). 

Sorry your son isn't talking to you...hopefully he'll realize he's being dumb soon, and maybe he'll help with the training or something.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Time for NILIF with the son .


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

As a new parent of a 17 y.o. son I can see your need to stand strong. Sorry your son is being the way he is.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

bocron said:


> Time for NILIF with the son .


 :spittingcoffee::wild: Super funny!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

bocron said:


> Time for NILIF with the son .


Oh yes.  I'm good with NILIF. (I can't lie, I do miss him. ) I will continue to post updates of Tucker's progress on my facebook, so it'll be "in his face" quite often. :laugh:

*~~~*
*Promised Cone-head vid:* (He looks so pathetic! I figured out he does *not* like having the camera aimed at him and he gets a lil sulky.) Also, there is a very short X-rated segment towards the end.  I was trying to get a pic of his nether-regions, but it didn't work out too well. AND, also, the whining you hear in the background is Bailey inside the house. Jealous boy. There's a whole other issue I'm going to need some guidance with soon.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I just read this whole thing.. You're doing a great job. Bless you for helping him.


Please list all of his breeds if you adopt him out, with info on all of them. If by PB, you mean Pit Bull, make sure they know dog-aggression is normal and can develop out of nowhere.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

APBTLove said:


> I just read this whole thing.. You're doing a great job. Bless you for helping him.
> 
> 
> Please list all of his breeds if you adopt him out, with info on all of them. If by PB, you mean Pit Bull, make sure they know dog-aggression is normal and can develop out of nowhere.


Thank you so much. The "pb" was short for purebred. His mom is the purebred White Shepherd, the dad is the one in question. He's part Husky, but the rest? Unknown. 

I will definitely be sure when we are ready to talk adoption, that any potential owner knows *everything* there is to possibly know about this boy. His next home *must* be a forever home. Must!

This boy's parents:

Mom: 

















Dad:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

He seems much calmer since you got him...he's a happy boy


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

chelle said:


> Oh yes.  I'm good with NILIF. (I can't lie, I do miss him. ) I will continue to post updates of Tucker's progress on my facebook, so it'll be "in his face" quite often. :laugh:


If it helps, I'm going to guess that in the long run he'll come around and understand what you are trying to do. Even though you probably "taught him better than this", kids gotta go out and do their thing, and you can't beat yourself up for their choices. :hug:


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

llombardo said:


> He seems much calmer since you got him...he's a happy boy


Um, no. Don't be fooled. :crazy::shocked: He just apparently didn't enjoy the camera pointed at him. 

I am now sporting a nice goose-egg on the back of my head because I was dumb enough to crouch down beside a concrete wall in the dog room at the same time he decided to approach me in a very, very friendly way. OUCH! (Note to self! Tucker is NOT ready for a human to be crouching or sitting.) I yelled at him because he was literally going nuts. Human on the ground! Play! Jump! Paw! I gave him a chewie and sat there in a chair. Just sat there for a few minutes and cried. What if I just can't do this. He went nuts on the chewie; you could almost just see him dissipating steam.

Then booger man calmed down and came up and licked all my tears away. He approached rather timid-like, because I did yell at him... and that apparently made an impression.

Dang, he's so sweet, but dang, he really is very wild. I'm in over my head, I really am.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

chelle said:


> Um, no. Don't be fooled. :crazy::shocked: He just apparently didn't enjoy the camera pointed at him.
> 
> I am now sporting a nice goose-egg on the back of my head because I was dumb enough to crouch down beside a concrete wall in the dog room at the same time he decided to approach me in a very, very friendly way. OUCH! (Note to self! Tucker is NOT ready for a human to be crouching or sitting.) I yelled at him because he was literally going nuts. Human on the ground! Play! Jump! Paw! I gave him a chewie and sat there in a chair. Just sat there for a few minutes and cried. What if I just can't do this. He went nuts on the chewie; you could almost just see him dissipating steam.
> 
> ...



He is just a clumsy puppy that gets excited when someone shows him some attention. I'm sorry about your head...maybe take a breather and let him heal(you to) and start back up in a couple days?


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## AkariKuragi (Dec 19, 2011)

Take a deep breath and know that you are doing a FANTASTIC job so far. He's not going to be a perfect pup over night, and you do have a very long road ahead of you, but you are doing so good so far! If you ever get overwhelmed put him in his crate and step back, calm down, and then reengage him. You cannot hope to help him if you are too stressed out or emotional. You need to be calm and in control of yourself if you hope to control him. Take it slow, don't push you or him too far too fast. It is better to work lots of little short sessions then try to do long ones with him and risk stressing him (and you!) out too much. Keeping things short and sweet will help both of you mentally and physically. As soon as one of you is showing signs of being warn out, stop the session and have a little play session, then a little rest session, then start a new training session.

I've read through the whole thread and I haven't seen many people give advice on the jumping up thing other than physical corrections which can work fine when it comes to you, but when he's interacting with other people it can be difficult to maintain a consistent correction (especially if they are kneeing him). Now I'm assuming he gets very excited when he sees a new person and this is why he jumps up and stuff. To train him not to jump up, here are a few things you can try. : )

1: Before someone new enters the room, have Tucker sit. Then have the person enter the room. THE MOMENT Tucker exits the site, correct him and have the person leave. Have him enter the sit again. Make sure you wait for him to stay sitting before you have the person enter. Once you've done that, have the person enter again. If he exits the sit again, repeat the process until he no longer exits the sit. This is a game of patience and can take a long time, but it is similar to the idea behind making him wait before he goes through a door. He will not get what he wants until he is sitting calmly. Now, after he stays in a sit, have the person calmly approach him. Once again, if he leave the sit at all have the person exit and repeat the process until the person can approach without him exiting the sit. You can calmly praise him for remaining in a sit, but keep your voice quiet and calm and don't do too much. Once the person has approached, have them pet Tucker in a calm way. If he jumps up on them at all say OFF and have the person leave again. Let him know he can only meet this new person when he is sitting and calm.

2: Another way you can do this is to remove Tucker from the room if he jumps up on the person. Take him away until he calms down, and then bring him out and meet the person again. As soon as he jumps or starts to get over excited, take him out of the room again. Both of these methods teach him that he can only get what he wants when he is calm. They are not quick fixes, but they are worth trying and they will teach him that he needs to listen to you in order to get what he wants. 

Make sure he is on a leash when he meets people so that you can have complete control over him until he has learned that jumping=no new friends. Take things slowly and work at it as often as you can, and you should see results. : ) Good luck and thank you for saving this boy's life. : ) He wouldn't have lasted in the shelter with how you're describing his behavior. We have dogs at our shelter that have been put down because of "excited behavior." : ( I also can't believe how hard of a time your family is giving you. I believe your son may be ashamed of himself because you're being such a better example of a human being than he was, and is trying to defend his feelings by lashing out at you and making YOU seem like the bad guy. But you are most certainly an angel. : ) I will continue watching this thread and look forward to hearing more updates!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

llombardo said:


> He is just a clumsy puppy that gets excited when someone shows him some attention. I'm sorry about your head...maybe take a breather and let him heal(you to) and start back up in a couple days?


Yeah, I'm ok. Just a little sore spot on my noggin'. Thankfully I have a pretty hard head. :crazy: You're totally right, he was just very excited, not aggressive. He's being crated a lot more now since the neuter, and he sure has some extra energy and steam. Extra on top of an unbelievable amount, ugh!  I'm awful, I went and bought some of those "calming pills" from Petco. I always looked at those and thought, what the heck, sounds like a lazy dog owner's excuse to calm their dog... um yeah, eating those words now.



AkariKuragi said:


> Take a deep breath and know that you are doing a FANTASTIC job so far. He's not going to be a perfect pup over night, and you do have a very long road ahead of you, but you are doing so good so far! *If you ever get overwhelmed put him in his crate and step back, calm down, and then reengage him. You cannot hope to help him if you are too stressed out or emotional.* You need to be calm and in control of yourself if you hope to control him. _*<<So very right.. I was so tired last night... spent all weekend with all the dogs, trying so hard to give them all the appropriate time -- I was tired and overwhelmed.>>*_ Take it slow, don't push you or him too far too fast. It is better to work lots of little short sessions then try to do long ones with him and risk stressing him (and you!) out too much. Keeping things short and sweet will help both of you mentally and physically. As soon as one of you is showing signs of being warn out, stop the session and have a little play session, then a little rest session, then start a new training session.
> 
> I've read through the whole thread and I haven't seen many people give advice on the jumping up thing other than physical corrections which can work fine when it comes to you, *but when he's interacting with other people it can be difficult to maintain a consistent correction* (especially if they are kneeing him). *Now I'm assuming he gets very excited when he sees a new person and this is why he jumps up and stuff*. To train him not to jump up, here are a few things you can try. : ) *<<Yes. He rarely jumps up on me now, and a simple "OFF" puts all four on the ground. Others are a different story, but he hasn't met many people. My friend, a trainer and my bf. No one other than myself has kneed him and I only did a couple or three times and the jumping up was basically over. Nothing the people I mentioned did had much success at all in stopping his jumping up. I do need to work on how to prevent it with others or this guy will never be adoptable.. Thanks for the advice below. I'm going to ask my friend to come help me work these ideas. Thanks!>>*
> 
> ...


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## AkariKuragi (Dec 19, 2011)

Don't feel bad about thinking like that at all, it is perfectly understandable. This is HARD. You're raising two puppies at once! Which is exhausting just thinking about it, not to mention one is 70 pounds and has almost no manners. XD Get as much help from people as you can, and we of course are all here to support you as best we can. : )

Let me know how the exercises work, I really hope they help you with his jumping. We had a 110 pound St. Bernard and I'm soooooo glad she wasn't a jumper.... I can only imagine. XD But I can totally sympathize on the pulling thing, Brandy was terrible. x_x


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

AkariKuragi said:


> Don't feel bad about thinking like that at all, it is perfectly understandable. This is HARD. You're raising two puppies at once! Which is exhausting just thinking about it, not to mention one is 70 pounds and has almost no manners. XD Get as much help from people as you can, and we of course are all here to support you as best we can. : )
> 
> Let me know how the exercises work, I really hope they help you with his jumping. We had a 110 pound St. Bernard and I'm soooooo glad she wasn't a jumper.... I can only imagine. XD But I can totally sympathize on the pulling thing, Brandy was terrible. x_x


Thank you very much.  I will definitely update when we get to work on those. I'm still holding back while he heals from neutering. 

*~~Update~~*

I think I said it before, but going to repeat, I am going to update this thread as much as I can so that any future adopter can know all there is to know about this boy.

I've also said a bunch of times that Tucker is a nice boy. He really, truly is -- a very nice boy. I'm 11 days in with him now. He *loves* my attention. We work outside together and downstairs in the dog room together. Sometimes I have to tether him outside as I'm doing other dog stuff inside, and he parks himself by the door. He doesn't attempt to escape. He doesn't want to. He only wants back in the house. He *loves* going downstairs to the dog room, because he knows we'll play with the Jolly ball and work some small stuff, like sit and down and he'll get treats. He *adores* belly rubs. He goes into some kind of doggy zen when he's getting his belly rubbed. I kiss him all the time, and he is so gentle. No teeth. I rub him on the top of his head and same thing. Gentle. No teeth. He loves it. 

He's still on "light duty" after the neuter, so we can't do a lot physically. 

He is excellent in his crate. He is mellow, chews on his chewie, watches the house interactions.

He seems to be picking up on the daily ritual/schedule very well. The dogs occasionally go sniff him, he just watches them. He's never growled/barked, etc at them. 

He has not lifted his leg in the house again after a couple of reprimands in the dog room. 

He's doing well.  We're getting "there." This weekend will be quite telling, as the "two week shutdown" begins to close. (THANKS Msvette, for that, it is an *excellent* thing!)

Thanks for all the support, everyone. I'm even talking to my son again. He's said he wants to help.  We'll see.


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## Gmthrust (Mar 3, 2010)

This is the BEST thread ever, Chelle!!! We're learning a lot of wonderful things here, too....Thanks:wub:


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Help. I don't think Tuck is healing up like he should? I've never had a male neutered, I'm concerned.

Links to his incision:

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj391/mselleebay/IMAG0286.jpg

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj391/mselleebay/IMAG0287.jpg

??????? Just doesn't look right to me? Tomorrow will be one week since the neuter. He's had the cone on the whole time. He does attempt to get at the incision. I've sprayed the non-sting bitter spray on him. He doesn't like it... so he really isn't going after it much. 

The vet is open late tomorrow night -- is a visit in order?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

It doesn't look swollen or agitated. A bit of vitamin E squeezed on it or coconut oil may help heal. 
I just want to say you are doing great with him!
I had one foster, and I documented everything, too in a file so he'd have a good start in his new home. 
I made a packet of information/NILIF/Nutrition/health protocols for his adoptive owners. I never was able to hand it out because he bit my husband in the back unprovoked(resource guarding me) 

I had to return him to the rescue after that and they never let me have closure or an opinion on his placement. 
I feel like I failed him, but the rescue did it too. They adopted him out two weeks after the bite incident without ever doing an eval. He would have stayed with me if he wasn't so reactive to my son or husband, our bond was too strong for a foster type relationship. I found out how well he bonded too late. 
When it is time for Tucker's placement, please have someone who is legit do an eval on him to help you place him. I'm sure he is fine, but setting him up to succeed will be a comfort in knowing his future.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> It doesn't look swollen or agitated. A bit of vitamin E squeezed on it or coconut oil may help heal.
> I just want to say you are doing great with him!
> I had one foster, and I documented everything, too in a file so he'd have a good start in his new home.
> I made a packet of information/NILIF/Nutrition/health protocols for his adoptive owners. I never was able to hand it out because he bit my husband in the back unprovoked(resource guarding me)
> ...


Do you think it warrants a vet check? The vet is open late tomorrow night. I'm wondering about the discoloration. I'll try the Vit E.

Tucker is definitely bonded to me. No doubt about that. But I do think he could bond to anyone who gave him the time, attention and love. I will be very careful about placement. A local non-kill shelter/rescue group finally responded to my email and we'll be in contact soon. I won't give this baby up without feeling 1000% that it is the right home, right everything for him. I love him. :wub: I'm sorry to hear about your experience with your foster. I'll definitely take that to heart.

*~~Update~~*

Tried something new tonight. I'm so goin' by the seat of my pants here. 

I tethered Mr Bailey to the treadmill and let Tucker have free roam (leash on) in the kitchen. He explored. He sniffed. I've let him do this before, but I let him drag the leash this time. He jumped on the counter, of course, and a nice OFF put him back down. He parked by the back door:


















I was waiting for a leg-lift, but he didn't try. Good!

Then I tethered him to an eyelet in my woodwork and went back and forth between the two:





 
It worked out ok! They were pretty calm, I think.

Then I let the naughty Shiba come into the mix, offleash. She was her normal rotten little self. (I say that in love.) She got in his face a little bit, gave her Shiba I'M TOUGH nonsense, and Tucker just stood there like, huh? He showed no aggression.

Another day in the process. :crazy::laugh:


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

All in all he is really looking good now, so clean and white. I love how his eyes reflect blue!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> All in all he is really looking good now, so clean and white. I love how his eyes reflect blue!


Thank you. The pic turned out more white than he really is. He's still pretty scuzzy but his neck discoloration is almost completely gone. I'm waiting for full (neuter) healing to try the bathing thing again. I called a mobile pet bathing thing -- $135 bucks! Ouch! I guess I'll be doin' it myself for that kind of money. (I don't really blame them for charging that, but I just can't justify it.)

I think I'm going to take his cone off tomorrow. Yay!

*~~ Update ~~*

Things are moving along. I really believe Bailey and Tucker will be fine once allowed offleash greet.

At THIS moment, I'm in bliss. Bailey and Tucker are both tethered about six feet apart from one another and each has toys and chewies... and they're both enjoying them very much. They could care less about each other. I just recently started this indoor tethering thing with Tucker. At first I had Bailey do some sits and downs and Tucker watched. I'll be danged, but when I gave Tucker his turn, he gave me a down when I said down! Woohoo! Watching Bailey seemed to make a big difference. Then, though, he just automatically went to a down -- which wasn't quite what I was after :crazy: -- but it showed me he was paying attention and trying to please.

I have a thing set up for tomorrow to let Bails and Tucker have offleash freedom together in a friend's fenced yard. I think they're ready. My concern now is if Tucker is healed properly enough from the neuter for what is sure to be a fairly rough and tumble session. Several adults will be there to do whatever might need to be done. The weather forecast, though, isn't too encouraging. Rain/snow. I don't need two soaking, muddy dogs... so Mother Nature may have to make the call on this one. I don't want Tucker's incision to be stressed by hard play AND wet/mud. We'll see.

I've been doing other little things as we go. Hand feeding him... and he takes food or treats nice and soft. Touching and petting him when he's eating or drinking -- no reaction. The only thing that seems to "bother" him is messing with anything around his neck. He doesn't like it. He doesn't have a big reaction, but he gets agitated. 

I kiss him all the time. He is very gentle. He likes his side rubbed, and then usually turns onto his back for a belly rub. 

He still gets pretty nutty if I kneel or sit. He'll be *all* over me. Out of control, over me.. so I don't do that. I guess we're not ready for that. 

He still drags me to the door. The methods suggested for him not charging on opening the crate door and house doors have worked like *magic*. No problem. He will sit in the crate until I say ok. BUT once I give the "ok," he's comin' out full bore. He *charges* to the door. I make him sit at the first house door, no problem. He won't move until I say Ok, let's go. I can open that door fully wide and he will keep the sit. (He's learned the door will close if he moves.) Then, once I say, ok, let's go, repeat the charge. On this part, I go down the stairs in front of him, to slow him down. You have to go down three steps and turn hard right and down three more steps. He is directly behind me, I feel the cone hitting the back of my legs. (I'm bracing myself or he'd totally knock me down.) It is narrow, so he has to stay behind me. We then arrive at the back door - the one that leads outside. Again, he's required to sit. Again, I can open the door wide and he'll keep his sit but once I give the ok, he charges out the door. I have zero clue how to stop this charging. My other dogs have never done this; I don't get it.

Thanks for reading and as always, any suggestions/advice are very appreciated!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Chelle, that neuter incision looks good to me, and I've seen lots of 'em. Did you get the vet to look at it?

Also, I pay about $30 for a bath, brush, and nail trim at the groomer. Might want to call around. Once he's had 2 weeks to heal after his neuter, of course.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Make him sit on the other side. If he charges, he goes back to the same spot and has to sit. Try teaching him "easy" as in walk slowly, don't pull. I used a prong with Jax so don't have any suggestions on how to get that through to him.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

do you play tug with him? I know he's huge and muscled, but engaging him that way may help him to release his energy, and will really show your leadership if your body can take it. Let him win but end it on your terms before he's had enough.
If tug is out for you, then carry treats and do a step, command a sit or down, mark it/treat do it again and again. After a few sessions, it will be habit and you can get him to control himself out the door with the commands.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Or make a game of sit? Take a step with him, Sit, Treat, step, sit treat, two steps, sit, treat?? Then he would be engaged with you and looking to see what you are doing rather than charging ahead?


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Emoore said:


> Chelle, that neuter incision looks good to me, and I've seen lots of 'em. Did you get the vet to look at it?
> 
> Also, I pay about $30 for a bath, brush, and nail trim at the groomer. Might want to call around. Once he's had 2 weeks to heal after his neuter, of course.


Good, good, I'm glad you think it is looking ok. Big relief. I asked some opinions on other places, and eventually decided to not go thru the trauma of the vet. Tucker was the perfect picture of insanity at the vet. Just getting him in there would've been crazy enough, but attempting to get the vet to look at the incision? Oh, Lord. It honestly would've required tranquilizers or something of that nature. I would have undertaken all of that if I hadn't gotten the good feedback on how it looks. I don't think it looks too great, but I trust others' judgement on this. 

As far as taking him to a groomer.. hahahaha... they'll hate me! I'll pay them double, though!



onyx'girl said:


> do you play tug with him? I know he's huge and muscled, but engaging him that way may help him to release his energy, and will really show your leadership if your body can take it. Let him win but end it on your terms before he's had enough.
> If tug is out for you, then carry treats and do a step, command a sit or down, mark it/treat do it again and again. After a few sessions, it will be habit and you can get him to control himself out the door with the commands.


I did try a game of tug with him and he loved it, fully engaged. BUT that is the one and only time I've heard him growl. I think it was a play growl, but I don't know... so I quit with the tug. I wasn't sure about letting him win the game when he growled. So I got away from that and just tossed another ball when he brought the one back. 



Jax08 said:


> Or make a game of sit? Take a step with him, Sit, Treat, step, sit treat, two steps, sit, treat?? Then he would be engaged with you and looking to see what you are doing rather than charging ahead?


This sounds like a good idea - why didn't I think of that? :laugh:


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Re: the groomer. You say that, but I usually do tip them 50-75% when I take Kopper.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

So we did the offleash meet at a friend's house where neither dog had been before. I think it went well. 

Bailey is the leaner guy, with the black collar. It took him a little bit to warm up, which was surprising to me.. but it didn't take long. 

I know the vid is a little long, but what do you think? At one point, Bailey just sits and Tucker is sniffing around him... what is that? 

We came home and let everyone settle down for an hour or so. I then fed them, let them settle a bit more. I then let Tucker out in the house offleash. He peed on the chair, ugh, but caught him in the act and put him outside and praised, like you'd do with a pup. Brought him back inside and he didn't want to leave the back door area. Bailey was a bit more "controlling" but not nasty - but sort of the attitude like, ok, dude, this is MY house. Hard to explain, but no vids of that part. The Shiba was also in the mix, sniffing around, so not surprising it was a bit much to Tucker and he stayed fairly close to the back door. I was praising everyone for their good behavior.  I put Tucker back in his crate to decompose. Big day for all of them. Both of 'em are sacked out.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

SSOOO cute, they looked like they had so much fun!!

As for the sitting and sniffing, my dogs have lived together for about 8 months and they still do that daily. ???


OH yeah forgot to add, hope you get Tuck out before he starts to decompose  Decompressing ought to be enough! You are doing such a great thing


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

OMG how sweet. My boys who were littlermates used to play like that together all the time.  Mine did however occasionally sound like they were killing each other. Never a scratch on either one of them, but yikes the growls.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

mysweetkaos said:


> ...OH yeah forgot to add, hope you get Tuck out before he starts to *decompose*  *Decompressing* ought to be enough!


Buahahahaaaa!!! :rofl: I definitely do NOT want him to decompose!


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

chelle said:


> Buahahahaaaa!!! :rofl: I definitely do NOT want him to decompose!


OH thank goodness!! Too funny, you don't how many times I proofread my own stuff, and think "they must think I am an idiot":blush:


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

That was some great exercise. Looks like they had a lot of fun.


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## matthewm11 (Oct 18, 2011)

*I got a "re-homed" GSD/Husky mix recently who was in a similar situation to Baily...*

Origional family had other dogs, kids and relegated My dog Indiana to the front yard where she spent all her time. She was a very nervous, unsocialized dog when I picked her up. She was about 7 months. She had a brief but stressfull transition from being a dog spending her whole day confined to a yard to living inside with constant loving human companionship. She has since blossemed into an outgoing, confident, happy and more or less well behaved dog. 
Houstraining was a concern, but (knock on wood) has not had a single accident in the six months I 've had her. She went from skittish and shy to outgoing almost to a fault sometimes. We get a lot of exercise togethet but I can tell she appreciated living inside with me and sleeping on a comfortable bed, getting spoiled with toys and not sleeping on a filthy lawn all alone.
As you already know, GSD/huskies are high energy and intellegent dogs that demand work and committment. I couldnt be happier with her but it did take some work "civilizing"her. I come from the school of thought (especially with GSDs) that if they had their pick they'd rather living in a cramped 
apartment around their human pack than outside alone. GSDs are codepent with their owners and need that to be happy. 
Whatever you decide to do, my point was that a dog that young can quickly learn to adjust to a different environent. He will see living inside around a loving family beats outside life, and I beieve, like my dog , will quickly learn the inside rules. Housebreaking IMO wont be terribly hard since he.'s a bit older. My dog follows the mantra. "you don't crap where you eat" and instinctavly knew to wait until outside
Just remember if you do taker her in she will likely get into everything first but will quickly learn the bounderies.
GSD and GSD mixes are so rewarding despite the extra work they require compared to your average breed. So many peopke have unrealistic, hollywood inspired view of the breed as this stoic, quiet dog who when not pulling Timmy from a well or thwarting a robbery are duitifully sitting at their masters feet....yeah right (especially with husky added in) Then these same people deal wifh an energetic, high maintnence dog that takes longer than most breeds to mentallt mature either make to dog live outside or go the shelter. "s--t, had no idea they were so much work.... " Get a mellow dog, not a german shepherd unless yoy are prepared for the work
to mentally mature
I have a black and tan 1y/ o female GSD/husky (who looks purebread GSD other than her one blue eye) who I love dearly but can be a pain in the butt. people adopt or buy them thinking they are getting rin tin tin but end up witb Marly fron "marly and me"
I dont kbow what the best move for you but dont fret too much about in house accidents if you have to foster. Also, my girl is very gregarious and 
outgoing- inherited frlm her husky mom.
I love to taker her in but 1) nof enough space. 2) live way too far away. 3) as much as I love the GSD/husky combo, she can be a little defient and srubborn snot, so I decided my next dog will hopefully be a pure GSD


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Wow Chelle I had missed some of the thread .Tucker is really making progress.Congrats. The play session was fantastic both your boys did so good. Mr. Bailey is definitely the older brother. As for grooming when I would take Daisy and Lucky to the groomer they would say Lucky was free the charge was all Daisy. Now she just walks in to her big cage w/ cushions and does her German heifer hound moohowl. I used to tip $25. for just Daisy.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

*~~ Update ~~ *

After the outdoor play session on Sunday, I started letting them have some indoor access to each other the next day. Short periods. 15 minutes or so, a couple of times in the morning and evening. They play very hard. The first couple of days, I had to stop it eventually because they seemed to just ramp up too much. It was almost like you could see the tension building. I don't know how to explain, I just trusted my gut and cut it off.

Bailey, at first, tried to T-off on Tucker.. I shut it down.. it turned into (what I think) was normal play. 

Tonight was the first time they actually got tired enough to "chill" on their own. The "chill" didn't last that long.. but it was enough that they were walking beside each other and neither was attempting to instigate the other. 

Tucker often goes on his back -- Bailey *never* shows his belly to Tucker. Is that significant? Example:

Tucker on his back... - YouTube

This is the style of their play... Does this seem normal? (Sorry, I've never owned two bigger dogs who play like this.... so I don't know... seems ok to me but what do you think.?)

Bailey Tucker Playing in the House - YouTube

Incidentally, I find it hilarious that these boys "obey" my paltry little fence that separates the dining room from the living area. I'm sure THAT won't last long.

~~

After they blow off a little steam, I'm trying to engage them both with/to me. Bailey knows and understands when I mention "hotdog" and he's trying to get to me, but Tucker is pretty clueless... but we sort of get the job done. You can see Bailey is trying to get to me *thru* the clueless Tucker.

Who Wants a Hotdog? - YouTube

So I then allowed the Shiba Inu, Suri, to come on scene. She behaved *exactly* as I expected her to behave. Tucker dealt with it well I think:

Tucker, Suri being a snot - YouTube

~~

I'd appreciate any and all feedback on anything I'm doing (or not doing!)

Other sidenotes:

I haven't received hardly any callbacks from the rescues I've contacted. One said they'd be willing to host his pictures/info. Another said they might be interested, with more information, which I provided, but no callbacks. The several other ones -- no response in about a week. I put a Petfinder ad up tonight, but it takes a day or two to approve and process. We'll see. I love Tucker, I really, truly do, but Tucker honestly needs a lot of one-on-one with a loving owner. I really believe he will absolutely blossom with that. :wub: I can't give that to him.  My oldest dog is going blind... Bailey really demands a ton of attention. I'm cheating them all right now.  Sigh. 

Thanks for your advice and keeping tuned in to our ongoing saga. :wub::help:


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Bailey never taking the bottom during wresting is something to watch. When I have new dogs in the daycare or in our park, I am very cognizant of the give and take. If it is a new dog I tend to give it some time before assuming it is a factor. 
Bailey could be feeling threatened (emotionally) by Tucker and just isn't ready to relax totally yet. Either way, you need to watch and be aware. Some dogs never care that they don't get to reverse the roles and will play happily with the dogs that insist on being on top, so it's not the end of the world. Tucker could be one who could care less and will happily play his part and never have an issue.
Regardless, I usually step in a redirect the play after a few minutes just to avoid the issue. If it looks like Tucker is starting to struggle and want to move on and Bailey is pushing his advantage then break it up.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

bocron said:


> Bailey never taking the bottom during wresting is something to watch. When I have new dogs in the daycare or in our park, I am very cognizant of the give and take. If it is a new dog I tend to give it some time before assuming it is a factor.
> Bailey could be feeling threatened (emotionally) by Tucker and just isn't ready to relax totally yet. Either way, you need to watch and be aware. Some dogs never care that they don't get to reverse the roles and will play happily with the dogs that insist on being on top, so it's not the end of the world. Tucker could be one who could care less and will happily play his part and never have an issue.
> Regardless, I usually step in a redirect the play after a few minutes just to avoid the issue. If it looks like Tucker is starting to struggle and want to move on and Bailey is pushing his advantage then break it up.


I was about to say just that pretty much. The play itself looks pretty good, although I would definitely keep up with breaking it up for short timeouts every so often, even if they are doing fine, and especially if they seem to be ramping it up too much. One thing you might want to do is nab them by the collar and have them sit or down before turning them loose again to play - for a couple reasons. One is that it gets them used to somebody grabbing their collar (I say Gotcha when I do it) so that hopefully they won't ever react if they need to be grabbed quickly. The other is that they learn that having somebody grab them and have them sit does not end happy fun play times. 

Hopefully there will be a rescue that can help but it seems lately that everybody is so full. But don't lose hope. And you're not really cheating your dogs, they'll be okay. You're the kind of person who will make sure they are.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

just read all your updates!! 
fantastic!

my foster stayed crated or tied to me for a month. 2 weeks is just a starting point, some adjust quicker, some not so much.
from watching them play, they appear to be having a lot of fun!

when del was allowed freedom, that time was still monitored. i would strictly monitor play time, then stop play all together after a few mins., as my dog is a pretty dominant dog and my foster dog pukes when he gets too excited. 
and yes, my dog would get reprimanded for trying to dominate, but my foster dog doesn't really care, as he doesn't have the "leadership" want in him.

free time is earned by being calm. this is true for my foster dogs, as well as my dog.
i would mix up the crate time, and give my foster dog time with me while my dog was crated.

have you even walked them together yet? play is fine, but life isn't all play. dogs living together need to walk together IMO, so they can all see that the pack is moving forward. i do however also walk them separately, so i can get one on one time with them also.

at any rate, thanks for helping him out, and don't stop with the rescue's.
they have a LOT on their plates, and a persistent person gets attention.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

bocron said:


> Bailey never taking the bottom during wresting is something to watch. When I have new dogs in the daycare or in our park, I am very cognizant of the give and take. If it is a new dog I tend to give it some time before assuming it is a factor.
> Bailey could be feeling threatened (emotionally) by Tucker and just isn't ready to relax totally yet. Either way, you need to watch and be aware. Some dogs never care that they don't get to reverse the roles and will play happily with the dogs that insist on being on top, so it's not the end of the world. Tucker could be one who could care less and will happily play his part and never have an issue.
> Regardless, I usually step in a redirect the play after a few minutes just to avoid the issue. If it looks like Tucker is starting to struggle and want to move on and Bailey is pushing his advantage then break it up.


Yes. I am always within a few steps of them when they're allowed to play. (I gate off the kitchen and dining room and stay with them.) Bailey is still never going on his back. There's something to that, since when we go to the dog park, Bails will go on his back when he's playing with his buddies. But not with Tucker. 



OriginalWacky said:


> I was about to say just that pretty much. The play itself looks pretty good, although I would definitely keep up with breaking it up for short timeouts every so often, even if they are doing fine, and especially if they seem to be ramping it up too much. One thing you might want to do is nab them by the collar and have them sit or down before turning them loose again to play - for a couple reasons. One is that it gets them used to somebody grabbing their collar (I say Gotcha when I do it) so that hopefully they won't ever react if they need to be grabbed quickly. The other is that they learn that having somebody grab them and have them sit does not end happy fun play times.
> 
> Hopefully there will be a rescue that can help but it seems lately that everybody is so full. But don't lose hope. And you're not really cheating your dogs, they'll be okay. You're the kind of person who will make sure they are.


You give me too much credit.  Just last night I was bawlin' my eyes out. 

Tucker is sensitive to collar touching. Instead, I make a deal of WHO WANTS HOTDOGS, and they're getting that... they both come to me and it's a good "break" in the action. We spend some time doing sits and downs and just being calm beside one another. 

I'm working to touch Tucker's collar and neck and reward him with treats, sweet talk and lots of love. I think he has definitely been yanked around by his collar.  When I've had to hold his collar to control him, he's come around and teethed me a time or two. Or tried to twist on me to avoid it. No bite, nothing like that, but you can just tell he doesn't like it. 



Bismarck said:


> just read all your updates!!
> fantastic!
> 
> my foster stayed crated or tied to me for a month. 2 weeks is just a starting point, some adjust quicker, some not so much.
> ...


Walking, no. Tucker pulls like the strongest sled dog in the world -- even on a prong. Walking this dog is like walking a dinosaur. This dude has been tied out on a prong and apparently been jerked around by his neck so much, that he does not care one bit about anything neck. This will be our next hurdle and it'll require a completely different approach -- gentle leader or something completely different altogether. Honestly I don't have the slightest idea where to start here. 

*~~Update~~*

Tonight I broke the rules. I let them both play until they exhausted one another. I was watching for signs of stress, aggression, anything -- but saw none, so let them go.. and go.. and go. Probably 40 minutes of non-stop play. Eventually they both planted themselves down. That's what I was waiting -- and hoping -- for. The final "off" switch for both of them. They found it, thankfully. They are both completely wiped out now. 

Tucker is doing a nice job now with waiting nicely at the crate and door. Once released, he's storming, though -- so work to be done there. He is learning "wait" while his food/water is set down and doing well with that. He knows sit pretty solidly. He still has to be lured into a down, but is very willing if lured with a treat. He rarely jumps up on me, but jumping on others isn't nearly as solid. His jumping up is *much* worse when leashed. It's as though you can tell that he's been kept at the end of the leash, trying to "reach" the human.. (does that makes sense?) It's as though he's always been just far enough away that it's a "tease" to him. Even though he doesn't jump on me, if he's tethered and I approach him, he is immediately jumping up, but once I'm in his area, all four paws are on the ground and he's usually rubbing up beside me. It's a leash thing, I'm pretty sure. I think I've identified the problem, but I don't yet know the solution.

I'm so, so, so proud of Bailey. What a trooper he's being. I'm "using" him to be a good example to Tucker. I'm working basic obedience stuff right in view of Tucker, as Tucker is crated. Tucker soaks it in, he watches. When I'm dealing with Tucker, I tell Bailey down, back, or whatever and Bailey obliges so well. So so so proud of my Bailey boy. This would be so incredibly much more difficult if Bails wasn't being such a good pup. What a MAJOR push for obedience training. Wow, oh wow and double wow, how that pays off. In ways you'd never expect! Through this, I've grown to love my Bails even more than ever and I am seeing our hard work is paying off in double spades. 

I was taking it for granted in a way, that I could tell Bailey to do something, and he'd do it (usually ). Then TUCKER came into my life, and you can't "tell" that dude anything! It has honestly given me a brand new total appreciation for compliance to a simple verbal command. 

Bottom line, I couldn't do this now if it wasn't for the work put into my Mr Bailey. Bailey isn't perfect, but he is a pretty good boy.  If someone reading this takes nothing else away, do take that obedience work is super important and might turn into the best work you ever did with your dog.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I know it's exhausting, chelle, (it is just reading about it, LOL) but you are doing GREAT. They both look happy and Tucker looks to be adjusting well. And GOOD BOY Bailey!!

FWIW, my pup sometimes whips his head around when I reach for his collar, just for minor things. I think he's just being a punk pup when he does it, for I've NEVER jerked him around. He gets a stern "NO" and then a pet and love for behaving. Just keep in mind some of the behavior just may be testing out the waters. Although I do believe he was drug around with a prong, based on your description. Poor guy.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

RocketDog said:


> I know it's exhausting, chelle, (it is just reading about it, LOL) but you are doing GREAT. They both look happy and Tucker looks to be adjusting well. And GOOD BOY Bailey!!
> 
> FWIW, my pup sometimes whips his head around when I reach for his collar, just for minor things. I think he's just being a punk pup when he does it, for I've NEVER jerked him around. He gets a stern "NO" and then a pet and love for behaving. *Just keep in mind some of the behavior just may be testing out the waters*. Although I do believe he was drug around with a prong, based on your description. Poor guy.


Thank you! It is tiring, but I'm slowly, but surely, seeing the rewards.  It definitely boosts my spirits that taking things slow has helped. Tucker's personality is coming through.. He's very affectionate - more affectionate than Bailey is. Maybe because he was so ignored? 

Last night we went to my friend's house again with the fenced yard and stayed four *hours*. They absolutely wore each other out. When they got a little snarky, we redirected and did little obedience stuff. It's funny to watch Tucker watch Bailey. I am so thankful to have a friend who is as dog nuts as I am that she not only opens up her yard to us, but enjoys it, too. She is invaluable in this! I'll have my yard fenced within the month. I've been waiting, planning, saving.. and finally I shall have my 5 foot chain link fence that'll be about 2000? square foot when all said and done. CAN'T WAIT.

Some pics from today.  










Tucker definitely picked this up from Bailey:









FINALLY! FINALLY! I didn't put them into a down, they just finally relaxed enough to cool out! FINALLY! :wild::wild: (And Bailey's eyes almost closed was not a trick of the camera - he was falling asleep, hehe)









We're getting there. I'm falling in love with Tucker. Must control this. :wub:


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job You will LOVE having that fence! Tucker is so lucky to have you


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

Those pictures are great--especially the last one! Thanks for all you're doing for Tucker. It's so great that he and his brother are getting along so well. Keep up the good work! :thumbup:


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Tired dogs are happy dogs.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Beautiful pics! It looks like they are really enjoying each other.


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## Gmthrust (Mar 3, 2010)

Chelle (re: #*197*), Bailey Gots Big Poofy Cheeks!!! (Tucker probably gots 'em too...just not that-split-second in the snapshot.) Poofy cheeks equals pure happiness! What a fine picture this is...:wub:


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job You will LOVE having that fence! Tucker is so lucky to have you


Thank you and I... cannot... WAIT... for... MY... FENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Figuring square feet is apparently not my strong suit.  The area is 10 X 90 X 80 X 90 X 10 - or something close to that. Can anyone far more intelligent than myself tell me what that square footage is? All I can say, is it is costing me a small fortune for this, but worth every single penny. I've been saving, waiting. My property lines are weird, so that was a hassle, too... Anyway, I got good news from the contractor that they can probably start a bit earlier than previously thought. YESSSSSS. 



Karin said:


> Those pictures are great--especially the last one! Thanks for all you're doing for Tucker. It's so great that he and his brother are getting along so well. Keep up the good work! :thumbup:


Thank you!



brembo said:


> Tired dogs are happy dogs.


Boy, isn't that the truth!



Falkosmom said:


> Beautiful pics! It looks like they are really enjoying each other.


They seem to be. Tonight was the first time Bailey went over and showed his belly to Tucker. Was short, but I took it as a positive.



Gmthrust said:


> Chelle (re: #*197*), Bailey Gots Big Poofy Cheeks!!! (Tucker probably gots 'em too...just not that-split-second in the snapshot.) Poofy cheeks equals pure happiness! What a fine picture this is...:wub:


Thank you.  Poofy cheeks, that's funny.  Tucker adores Bailey. 


*~~Update~~*

As of now, it is an IMPOSSIBLE situation. I'm taking the boys out on 25 foot tieouts, keeping them about 10 feet from each other for our evening play/training sessions. Bailey could be trusted offleash, but they'd surely get Tucker's tieout tangled between them, and I don't want to deal with that. So I throw Bailey's frisbee, then throw Tucker's ball and try to spread it even. Then slow down and do some simple obedience with each one, back and forth. Thankfully the weather has been ideal, so we're spending a good two hours or so each night. 

It is *not* meeting each dog's exercise requirements, but it is honestly the best I can do at this point. Then we come inside and I let them play in the dining room/kitchen together for awhile. Then I crate Tucker up, let them both calm down awhile, and it's dinner time. This is some seriously tiring stuff! Then maybe a chewie, a little downtime (for them and ME!) and last night potty breaks. Whew. In between all this, there are my other two dogs to take care of. This is insanity! :shocked:


HOW, oh HOW does *anyone* raise two pups at once from a young age? I don't see how anyone could do it well unless you have two adults, with each adult devoting lots of time to each dog. I do not see how one person could properly do it. My *only* saving grace is the beginning obedience work Bailey has done. That makes it possible for me to "tell" Bailey something -- he does it. What the HECK would I do if I had *two Tuckers* at the same time??!! :wild: *I'd lose my ever-lovin' mind, that's what I'd do! *


On a positive note.. 

--Tucker's "sit" is solid.
--Tucker's "wait" (for food/water) is now very good. He's learning to look at me and wait for the "okay."
--Tucker does a great down, but only if lured by a treat.
--Tucker is doing a nice job with "stay." We just started this, so we're only up to 10 seconds or so. As previously advised, small periods to ensure success are the way I'm going with this. 

Tucker loves, loves, loves simple loving praise. Telling him he's a "good boy" gets his tail wagging and he almost seems... I don't know how to explain... but he seems surprised to be told he's a good boy. I doubt he was ever told he is a good boy. But he is. :wub:

He still pulls like a 1000 lb bull, though.  Work to do there, for SURE!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

chelle said:


> HOW, oh HOW does *anyone* raise two pups at once from a young age? I don't see how anyone could do it well unless you have two adults, with each adult devoting lots of time to each dog. I do not see how one person could properly do it. My *only* saving grace is the beginning obedience work Bailey has done. That makes it possible for me to "tell" Bailey something -- he does it. What the HECK would I do if I had *two Tuckers* at the same time??!! :wild: *I'd lose my ever-lovin' mind, that's what I'd do! *


2 adults, 2 kids doing 4-h Obedience, a awesome breeder who was also a SAR member who kept in touch, and a 4-h trainer who was also a SAR member. Other wonderful members of the SAR team. A small town where everyone knows everyone and where dogs were allowed in the local library, the feed store etc to get socialized, a girl scout troop and swim team to help socialize even more. 2 older dogs and 10 fenced acres to run in.  Then we went even more stupid and added a 3rd puppy to the mix.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Chelle, 

I think you will enjoy training Tucker if he is motivated by praise like that. He will make somebody a great dog some day.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Shepherdmom, 

Do you have eight arms?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> Shepherdmom,
> 
> Do you have eight arms?


and eyes in the back of my head.... Just ask my kids.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> Chelle,
> 
> I think you will enjoy training Tucker if he is motivated by praise like that. He will make somebody a great dog some day.


He really will make someone a great, great dog. He likes treats, he ADORES praise. Even when I think I'm going to lose my fool mind, even when he slams me into a wall, even when he clothes-lines me, even when he drags me and nearly pulls my arm out of socket ... I still love how sweet natured of a dog he is. I have to walk away for a minute sometimes! but he really is a nice, human-loving, human-friendly boy. 



Falkosmom said:


> Shepherdmom, Do you have eight arms?


Haha! She must have! And eyes in the back of her head, too! :laugh:


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> and eyes in the back of my head.... Just ask my kids.


Long story short, reminds me of when a mother watched her young children misbehaving in the reflection on the glass doors, they never did figure out how she knew what they were doing after she busted them! LOL! They truly thought she had eyes in the back of her head.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Falkosmom said:


> Long story short, reminds me of when a mother watched her young children misbehaving in the reflection on the glass doors, they never did figure out how she knew what they were doing after she busted them! LOL! They truly thought she had eyes in the back of her head.


:rofl:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Who needs a gym or weight watchers?? We can just come to your house for the day It sounds like its going well and your doing a great job


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

llombardo said:


> Who needs a gym or weight watchers?? We can just come to your house for the day It sounds like its going well and your doing a great job


You are not kidding! I haven't set foot on the scale, but surely I'm going to be dropping a few pounds. These guys keep me in constant motion!

Newsflash!!!! Tucker is white!!!!! The groomer said he wasn't too terribly bad other than screaming murder at first when being blow dryed. I tipped her well. :laugh: She was awesome. Under all that dirt I couldn't get out, there is a white/cream dog. Tucker has a lot more bisque/cream in him than Bailey does. 

The following is surely just a trick of the camera - clicking at just the right second, but his ear is up here?! His right ear is never up. Never seen it up. Odd.!










Improvements all the time as we go, though! Tucker is really settling in. He still isn't allowed full house access, but he's getting longer and longer periods of time. He's being exposed to more and more people. He has leash issues -- for example, if a person is beyond his reach and he's tethered, he will jump, jump, jump... if that person then walks into his space, he will no longer (usually) attempt to jump up. He seems to almost be self-correcting himself. Once allowed access to the person unrestrained, he turns sideways to them and will remain there calmly as they pet his side and he loves it. 

He's a very affectionate dog. He is a super hard playing dog. He'd probably intimidate a lot of dogs. Something important to consider for a potential adopter.

He's very nice to the kitty! That's a relief.

He's becoming more adoptable all the time. :wub: I wuv him. I'm going to cry when he leaves, but that'll be awhile yet.... More work to do.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

He looks great!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I agree, with Mrs K...get him conditioned to learning/engaging without that darn prong diggin in constantly. Is there an area you can work w/ him off leash with tug/treats/ball reward? *As soon as the prong/neck resisitance is out of the picture, I bet you see a different dog totally*.


You absolutely pegged that one early. Completely different dog. The prong means diddly to him. He pulls on a prong only slightly less than a flat. He pulls so hard, you can't even get a correction in because there's never slack. It is going to take an entirely different approach in regard to collars if anyone ever wishes to walk this dog. This is my next challenge. I need to do research here. 



msvette2u said:


> He looks great!


Thank you! I think he is just so super handsome. :laugh: He has very light brown eyes, as opposed to Bailey's dark eyes. I think the one ear down is adorable. Now that he is actually clean, he is even more handsome. He's lost a few pounds as well. 

*~~~~~*

I spent the last little bit re-reading this whole, long thread. Wow. Just wow. We've come a long way. Sure, there's a long way to go.. but still.. It has been worth it. Worth all of it. The few nights I spent crying in frustration and doubting myself. ALL worth it. The damage to my body  -- worth it. The lack of sleep - worth it. 

Just tonight my mother came to visit and she is a small, older woman so I was super careful... Bailey was left free, but I put Tucker onleash and stood 15 foot or so back from the door. When mom came in, Tucker was NUTS. Barking, lunging, going bat****. I actually wrapped the leash around my waist and leaned backwards. Mom just stood there quiet and calm. We just stayed like that, then I distracted Tucker, engaged with him a bit. As he calmed and she remained quiet, we moved in slowly. Each advance required he calmed before making another. EVENTUALLY he had access to mom and he went right to her side and was a wonderful gentleman. Never jumped on her even once. 

She was a little afraid of him at first, and who wouldn't have been... but overall it was a great success. She stayed an hour or more and he never once tried to jump her once he had access to her. He went to her for some nice pets, which he got. 

Mama is tired... :laugh:


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

chelle said:


> You absolutely pegged that one early. Completely different dog. The prong means diddly to him. He pulls on a prong only slightly less than a flat. He pulls so hard, you can't even get a correction in because there's never slack. It is going to take an entirely different approach in regard to collars if anyone ever wishes to walk this dog. This is my next challenge. I need to do research here.


I don't know if this will help you or not, but my pound puppy Ivan is very reactive around the head. He totally freaks with a collar. We don't know what happened before we got him the lady at the pound thought maybe a shock collar was used on him?  Anyway I went to the feed store and got a harness. He loves it. He still pulls and he still has to learn how to walk with a leash but already he is getting the hang of things. I don't know if it would help your guy but maybe something not on his neck?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I haven't read your thread lately, but I sure love the progress..ear up/white!! Wow! 

I think a front clip harness would be a great tool for now, but try to run two lines(one on a flat) so you can condition him to a flat collar when walking.
I personally like two lines. Usually I'll use a tab on a prong and a longer line on a flat(martingale) for walks. 
After his neck heals some a prong may still be an option, but poor guy, I can't imagine how bad his neck must have been. 

Massage/TTouch (info) nightly for the new owners should be in your folder when he is eventually adopted! It will help with his stress relief and the bonding of his new family.I hope you have a journal/folder for his progress. I'd love the history on him if I were the one adopting. But I am anal that way,something about the dogs influences and experiences helps me understand where they come from...I only got a snapshot of Kacies previous life.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

shepherdmom said:


> I don't know if this will help you or not, but my pound puppy Ivan is very reactive around the head. He totally freaks with a collar. We don't know what happened before we got him the lady at the pound thought maybe a shock collar was used on him?  Anyway I went to the feed store and got a harness. He loves it. He still pulls and he still has to learn how to walk with a leash but already he is getting the hang of things. I don't know if it would help your guy but maybe something not on his neck?





onyx'girl said:


> I haven't read your thread lately, but I sure love the progress..ear up/white!! Wow!
> 
> I think a front clip harness would be a great tool for now, but try to run two lines(one on a flat) so you can condition him to a flat collar when walking.
> I personally like two lines. Usually I'll use a tab on a prong and a longer line on a flat(martingale) for walks.
> ...


I think that pic was a camera fluke. That's the only time I've seen the ear up!

I massage his neck and praise him while I'm doing that and give him lots of love and sweet talk. He still doesn't much care for being touched at the collar, but it is slowly getting better. He doesn't try to twist around nearly as often as he did before. 

I've been keeping a webpage of his progress so far. 

~~~

Bailey helps "teach" Tucker. 

Bailey has a very solid stay, and Tucker is clearly copying him:




 
One thing I notice is that Tucker breathes very, very hard after exercise. Yes, his coat is thicker and he's about 7 lbs heavier, but he gets very out of wind. For example:




=

Might not be a big deal at all, but it makes me wonder. These boys had just had the same exercise/playing together, and Bailey is hardly winded. Bailey has had lots of exercise in his life, he's pretty conditioned to it, but still. Tucker is breathing HARD at this point. And he will continue to breathe that hard for some time. Is this just due to a lack of exercise during his backyard life?


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

Has tucker been checked for Heartworm? Cause I think that can be a symptom, and because he's been outside his whole life, who knows how many mosquitos have gotten to him =[


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

iBaman said:


> Has tucker been checked for Heartworm? Cause I think that can be a symptom, and because he's been outside his whole life, who knows how many mosquitos have gotten to him =[


Yes, he was checked prior to neutering. Negative.

*~~Update~~ *

Tonight Tucker was finally allowed access to the main living room area of the house. Prior to now, he has only been in the kitchen and dining room. He did great. He didn't want to come in at first. He stopped at where the dining room meets the living room and sniffed... and sort of tip-toed into the room. He sniffed everything. 

I waited for a leg lift, didn't get one. Tucker parks at the back door when he needs to go. At least that's his "sign" so far. I can't claim him to be housebroken yet, but he's doing well. He's never soiled his crate. 

Kitty was sleeping in the chair. Tucker was very gentle and when kitty didn't enjoy his company, Tucker totally backed away. So he should be pretty good with cats. Good. Plus point for Tucker. 

Unfortunately, we're spending A LOT of indoors time because it has rained for three solid days and it is all mud outside. Weather forecast says two more days of rain, UGHHHHH. 

To add insult to injury, my fencing was finished today, but they were sloppy! and left some real issues behind. Parts of the fence don't even reach the ground.! They left some clips off the poles, so all one of my bigger dogs would need to do to get out is.. push. Ugh. Contractor is returning tomorrow to fix the problem stuff. I think I'll make a separate post about that; it is frustrating. 

Score +1 for Tucker's indoor behavior, at least for today, and score +1 for his kitty behavior.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You might want to retest him for HW. You can get a false negative.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> You might want to retest him for HW. You can get a false negative.


I may do that, but I'm noticing as he gets more exercise, it isn't nearly as extreme as it was. At first, the guy seemed to be on the verge of passing out? He's definitely building stamina. 

*~~~Update~~~*

Tucker continues to prove he is very friendly and affectionate. He plays pretty hard at times, but I've not seen one sign of true aggression from him. I'm able to put my hand in his bowl & touch him all over when eating, no problem. Not just that, but anything I've done has never gotten a hint of aggression from him. 

He *loves* human affection; belly rubs, ear rubs, you name it.

He has continued to earn more and more privileges. He has been limited to the kitchen and dining room inside but he's being allowed into the main living area just to chill out. As long as he will chill out. If he won't chill, it's back to the crate or dining room. Granted, he's had plenty of exercise prior, so I expect (demand, insist) that he "chill." Tonight has been an excellent night and he's had the most free access than ever before. Bailey is very mellow, sacked out at my feet under the desk. 

Tucker hasn't had a clue as to what an "off switch" is. At all. It has taken *weeks* to find that. It still isn't solid by any means, but we are getting there. Right now, tonight, is our biggest accomplishment in finding his off switch. It required Bailey to calm down and go under my desk, as he does in the later evening. Once Tucker saw that, he sort of followed that lead and he is now about 8 feet away from me, laying calmly, but awake. 

I am claiming another (small) victory. 

Oh, and also... I can now sit/kneel beside him without being completely run over and assaulted. (earned me a nice goose egg awhile back)  Not on the same level as him, but sitting on a chair or something a couple feet above him. Still not ready to sit on the ground with him... he gets too excited and I don't want to set him up to fail that way. As long as there's a foot or two, he's super cool -- licky, licky, lovey, lovey. :wub:

Tucker is really getting to the point he could be adoptable.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

fantastic news [email protected]!!!!

so glad to hear he's doing so well.


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

That IS great news! I'm so glad that Tucker is doing so well and that the two brothers are getting along and playing so nicely with each other. Keep up the good work and thank you for helping this sweet, lovable guy!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

bocron said:


> Bailey never taking the bottom during wresting is something to watch. When I have new dogs in the daycare or in our park, I am very cognizant of the give and take. If it is a new dog I tend to give it some time before assuming it is a factor.
> Bailey could be feeling threatened (emotionally) by Tucker and just isn't ready to relax totally yet. Either way, you need to watch and be aware. Some dogs never care that they don't get to reverse the roles and will play happily with the dogs that insist on being on top, so it's not the end of the world. Tucker could be one who could care less and will happily play his part and never have an issue.
> Regardless, I usually step in a redirect the play after a few minutes just to avoid the issue. If it looks like Tucker is starting to struggle and want to move on and Bailey is pushing his advantage then break it up.


Bailey now takes bottom position when wrestling and goofing. It took some time, he wouldn't for awhile. It's pretty evenly split now. Earlier they were just being goofy, (and they were pretty tired,): 










Bailey does show some dominance over Tucker at times. It is almost always concerning me. If we're sitting outside and Bailey comes up for a pet beside me and Tucker tries to nose in, Bailey gets grumpy. He does NOT like Tucker nosing in. If we're out in the yard and Tucker comes up for a kiss, Bailey is right there, wanting affection. 

I've heard it said dogs aren't actually "jealous." This sure seems like jealousy. I guess it is actually resource guarding and I'm the resource? The boyfriend can love up on Tucker without Bailey getting too concerned, but *I* can't "love up" on Tucker without Bailey being right there in most cases. (Just now I walked into the kitchen and gave Tucker a nice pat and kiss and Bailey just watched from where he's half snoozing under the table... so in that case, no reaction.) Not sure how to handle the guarding thing exactly.

Sometimes Tucker gets a little overenthusiastic and gets a warning growl out of Bailey. So far I've been able to shut them down without any problem when they're getting a little hot and heavy. 

Although they are wonderful together for the most part, there have been a few "scuffles" where some hackles came up and it seemed to be borderline fight. Again, me shutting them down with a KNOCK IT OFF ends it. Does this sound normal? Are they just being grumpy overexuberant teens? (Note: Bailey is always the one to do the growling, as Tucker is always the one to get over-excited. Tucker plays very, very hard.)

They're doing pretty well in the house together and no toy-aggression/guarding at this time. 

They did a great job earlier today of just chomping on their bones side by side:












... and each day brings a new challenge  ....


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

chelle said:


> Bailey now takes bottom position when wrestling and goofing. It took some time, he wouldn't for awhile. It's pretty evenly split now. Earlier they were just being goofy, (and they were pretty tired,):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bailey sounds like a great boy, and I would be very proud of yourself for raising such a confident guy. I would totally expect it to take a bit for him to get to the point of allowing the new guy to go that far. Good job!

I would also completely expect Bailey to get grumpy when Tucker tries to nose in. If you aren't planning on keeping Tucker (or even if you were) I would make steps to protect Bailey's spot so to speak. Although you are head honcho, there needs to be some order in the rest of the group. At our house if one wants affection when someone else has initiated it, then we will share the love. I don't let the new dogs take over, they need to be second fiddle and they are fine with it. Don't worry about hurting feelings, it is just the law around here. If they both come to you for some reason, tell them to sit or something and then reward Bailey first, that type of thing.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

bocron said:


> Bailey sounds like a great boy, and I would be very proud of yourself for raising such a confident guy. I would totally expect it to take a bit for him to get to the point of allowing the new guy to go that far. Good job!
> 
> I would also completely expect Bailey to get grumpy when Tucker tries to nose in. If you aren't planning on keeping Tucker (or even if you were) I would make steps to protect Bailey's spot so to speak. Although you are head honcho, there needs to be some order in the rest of the group. At our house if one wants affection when someone else has initiated it, then we will share the love. I don't let the new dogs take over, they need to be second fiddle and they are fine with it. Don't worry about hurting feelings, it is just the law around here. If they both come to you for some reason, tell them to sit or something and then reward Bailey first, that type of thing.


Thank you.  Very much. Bailey is managing it extremely well overall, I think. They can drink together, chew on bones close together, share toys. Bailey only gets grumpy when Tucker tries to nose in on me and take attention away from him. 

*~~Update~~*

Pack order is coming together pretty well.

Dolly (the oldest, non-GSD) is the top dog. No one is allowed to mess with Dolly and that is respected by all of them. They have no choice here. Mess with Dolly and you mess with Mama. Dolly is getting older and going blind. (Probably mentioned that 12 times by now, sorry.) Bottom line, don't mess with my Dolly girl.

Right up there with Dolly is the kitty.  Don't you mess with kitty cat. They all know that'll be a big problem, too. Tucker is actually the sweetest towards kitty, other than Dolly, who totally ignores kitty.

Tucker has now earned free roam inside. I'll crate him for a time after eating, but other than crating while I'm gone or for a good hour after eating, he is in the house with all the dogs (and kitty). He is often restless even after a good night of exercise. He'll pace around and not really settle anywhere. Not sure what to do with this issue. All the other dogs settle down towards the end of the night just fine, but Tucker can't seem to do that. I don't get it. Not sure how to help him with this. Literally all the dogs and cat are laying down and relaxed by this time of night, but there's Tucker, still pacing around.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Perhaps a beer or two?


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> Perhaps a beer or two?


Haha, no. No telling if they're nice or mean drunks. 

I am starting to wonder if I'm going to fail here. 

Do I want four dogs? No, I honestly don't.

Do I want to go camping with four dogs? NO.

Do I want to endure the expense of boarding dogs so I can go camping? NO.

Do I want to rip any of my dogs off, timewise? NO.

Do I want the added expense of more vet bills, food costs, flea meds, etc and so on? NO.

Do I want to be even more tied down, having an extra dog? NO.

DO I WANT TO SEE TUCKER GO? NOOOOOOOOO!

The only way I could give him up to anyone was if they fell as hard for him as I have. And I'd require multiple visits to my house and theirs. And a secure fence and yard. And promises for love, exercise, training. I just don't see many people coming out of the woodwork to do all that. :blush:

I'm going to put my Petfinder ad up again, but expect nothing. I've contacted rescues that rarely answer, or do answer but when I respond, they don't answer back. They're busy and overloaded, I know. 

Maybe I can manage four dogs. (Here's Miss Justification entering the scene.) I could search and find a GOOD boarding facility so we can still have our camp trips. I could... I could... I could... isn't there always a workaround?

Miss Justification and Miss Logic are in a fight right now. :laugh:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

chelle said:


> Haha, no. No telling if they're nice or mean drunks.
> 
> I am starting to wonder if I'm going to fail here.
> 
> ...



Let me tell you about my camping trip with 4 dogs(many years ago)...I decided to take my 8 year old son and his friend and the four dogs camping, yes I was the only adult. I went to take a shower and had to put the dogs in the car while I did, in the middle of the shower I hear a horn. I get done with my shower only to find the dalmatian literally sitting on the horn-almost smiling at me. Everything was good until the raccoons came at night, the one dog decided she must get them and she broke out of the tent followed by the other 3 Its pitch black, about 3am and I'm half asleep outside calling dogs, after about 45 minutes they all return(one by one)...one of them even went swimming and was soaking wet The rest of the camping trip went good, for later camping trips I bought little locks to put on the zippers, so we wouldn't have any late night escapes. It actually wasn't bad if your prepared...

I'm betting on Miss Justification


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

chelle said:


> Haha, no. No telling if they're nice or mean drunks.
> 
> I am starting to wonder if I'm going to fail here.
> 
> ...


I know it is hard, and expensive. I personally don't want to go over the two dog limit myself anymore, especially with bigger dogs.

I think Tucker is highly adoptable. He may be a little unruly right now, but he seems to be a nice solid pup underneath the neglect. In fact, I think it is his seemingly solid nerve that you are falling in love with. 

Once you get his puppiness under control, he is going to be a really nice dog for you or a potential adopter. I think you will be much happier placing him in a home near you, rather than on petfinder. Sorry, I don't have a lot of suggestions for you, but if I my circumstances were different, I would be tempted to adopt him! 

What are the chances of your son helping out when you go camping?


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> What are the chances of your son helping out when you go camping?


He likely would, but I won't.  He has two dogs himself and I know Tucker and his mom (my son's WGSD) are fine, I don't know about Tucker and his dad... Nah, I just can't do it.  Most of my camp trips are 3-4 nighters, so that's just more than I want to ask him to do. (I'd be ruining my own trip, worried.)

*~~~*

So I believe this will be my last post on this thread. :blush::crazy: Last update. (unless I respond to someone.)

Tucker is now a full-fledged member of the household and is out free with all the dogs except for a time after eating. He is housetrained. He lifted his leg exactly twice in the house and was busted out both times and that apparently was enough. 

He actually does not require the exercise that I first thought -- far less than his brother Bailey wants/demands! He likes fetch a lot -- loves the oversized squeaky balls. As long as he gets a good play session(s) each day, he's very pleasant in the house. 

He likes his crate. As the evening winds down, he willingly goes to his crate to relax. The door is left open all evening, until I go to bed. When he's had enough, he goes into his crate and chills out. 

He's terrific with puddy-tat. Likes to sniff and would love to lick, but kitty isn't fond of this.. so Tucker immediately backs down. Doesn't chase or bug kitty at all.

Tucker is crazy-affectionate. He might be 1/2 WGSD, but in his soul he's a Lab. He *only* wants to be with his humans and his pack. He loves to sit/lay down on a human's foot or some body part. 

I can now sit down with him without assault, unless you count being licked and rubbed as assault.  (Nice change from the goose egg I received for trying this awhile back!)

Bailey and Tucker had a couple spats within a couple days... after that, Tucker defers to Bailey. I'm not letting Bailey be a bully at all, but those spats seemed to set a precedent with the relationship. Tucker would bug Bailey to play -- (Tucker *does* like to play hard) and Bailey would try to shake him off to no avail.. so eventually Bailey said HEY dude, enough... Long story short, no problems anymore, though I'm always there to watch. They're not allowed unsupervised time together, other than maybe when they're outside and I run indoors to get a drink or something that only takes a few minutes. They're doing very, very well together now.

I still don't know that I'll keep Tuckies long-term. For now, yes, he is staying. We have work to do on leash and collar issues... but no hurry. Knowing what I know about his absolute love for human affection, if I found someone who could be devoted to him, to play ball with him, to giving him lots of the belly rubs he loves, etc... I could let him go. His brother Bailey is my absolute shadow and Tucker knows that, so Tucker doesn't get half the attention that he should get and wants to get. Tucker is a super human-oriented dog. He's taken a liking to my boyfriend, in large part because Bailey doesn't care if my boyfriend piles on the attention to Tucker. When *I* start loving up on Tucker, Bailey is *right there*, ready to "claim" his mom. We've come a loooong way on this issue -- ie, Bailey is praised highly, and often treated, for not reacting when I'm loving on Tucker.

ANYWAY --!! Thank you for following us through our journey. It has been quite the ride. I've read back through this post and laughed and cried. I'm going to print it out and put it in his doggy file. 

Bottom line... what I thought was impossible -- was not. He was worth it. Worth every tear and every dollar and every effort. I am so incredibly glad I snagged him up when that woman was ready to take him to the shelter. He surely would've died there.

Thank you again for following us.


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

I just read this last update and wanted to say that I really admire you for saving Tucker and for putting so much work into training and socializing him. He looks SOOO much healthier and happier than when you first got him. 

It's wonderful that you saved the life of such a sweet and loving dog. It sounds like Tucker would probably like nothing better than to be a permanent member of your family! It's been fun reading about his (and your!) trials and tribulations. I hope that you'll come back and give us Tucker fans an occasional update and pictures, of course! Thank you for putting such an effort into saving him, caring for him, and training this sweet little guy.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Thanks, Karin. 

~~~~

Last post I said I wasn't sure about keeping Tuckie long term. I think it is safe to say now, I can't part with Tuckies. 

I am still often torn thinking that if he had an owner all to himself, that he would flourish even more. I still believe that to be true, but finding that gem of a person is like finding a needle in a haystack. I often feel guilty that I cannot provide what I wish I could in regard to individual attention. At the same time, the boys have really become buddies. There are the occasional scuffles, but overall, they do great together.

Tuckers has turned out to be a very affectionate, sweet dog with a dose of nutball thrown in.  He is a Lab in his doggy heart. :laugh:

Some things that start hard end well. I am so incredibly glad I brought this guy home. It was worth everything. I have not one, but two white shadows everywhere I go.  Some days it is exhausting, but I'm never lonely. 












He IS a *nutball*, which makes it.... "fun" (?):









































How I love this guy. :wub:


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm glad this story has such a happy ending!


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## Madjukes (Jul 1, 2012)

His ear! It's still down hahaha


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

So happy to hear that you're keeping Tucker! I was really hoping that would happen! I love the photo of the two of them "paw to paw"! Congratulations on the permanent addition to your family. Your hard work paid off!


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