# Has Anyone cured "Dog Reactivity" with LAT/CU?



## FlowersGSD (Feb 27, 2011)

I am posting a variation of a question posed in 2009 at to whether anyone has been able to turn around their 'dog reactive' dog. It is now 2012 and there have been some new training techniques on the scene since then, like Leslie McDevitt's CU training methods. I have been training with a police dog trainer who favors a sit/stay on walks and turning Ben away from the window in a sit or down/stay when he reacts at the windows. 
I must say that Ben did a whole lot better with the LAT at the window and on some outdoor walks. His threshold is maxed at about 25 yards so it is going to take a lot of time with LAT but the K-9 trainer has agreed to use his dogs as "triggers" at a distance under threshold to build Ben up to a shorter distance over time. He says whatever works is what is best for the dog. I have also been in touch with Leslie McDevitt and she is offering me pointers.
So- the question is- has anyone had success with CU/LAT methods or problems with it? I would like to hear what is working for these dogs in your experiences.
thanks


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Cured? No. Progress - most definitely!

I had great results when I added an e-collar to it to stop her when she was in the middle of a reactive frenzy (which at OUR point was a learned behavior not a fear reaction any longer)

Unfortunately, work overtook my life for a while so we'll be starting all over again.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I took Onyx to a CU class and it helped with managing her reactivity. She still has to be managed, but is much better.
Our class was 8 weeks(1st one without the dog) and there were 6 dogs. One dog was excused from the class and told to get with a private trainer(too reactive for that class!) 
By the end of the 8 weeks, only one dog was still acting like a fool. His handler wasn't helping. 
I think reactivity can be lessened, but not totally "cured". 
I've not had one problem from the exercises in the CU book, only positives! But it is really up to the handler to be consistent with everything or it is useless.
After we went thru the CU class I took Onyx to an agility class. She was very well behaved, but I totally didn't trust her~Aussies/borders/shelties get her going and of course the class was mostly those breeds. But she never lunged or tried to get after one. So I really think the CU methods worked for us.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I believe I've had some success with LAT. At the same time I was using this I was also going to a behavioust and working with other methods as well. Our probelm was she went through a reactive stage at about 14-18 months towards some dogs who were "too close" for her comfort level. or were behaving in an unacceptable manner based on her standards. We went to dog parks and worked from the back of my SUV and outside the gates, getting closer and closer to the fence, while treating for a calm state. This worked too.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

FlowersGSD said:


> So- the question is- has anyone had success with CU/LAT methods or problems with it? I would like to hear what is working for these dogs in your experiences.
> thanks


I had great success with LAT and a dog reactive foster. He went from exploding any time he saw a dog (or dogs) to being able to be walked through a crowd and in a class of about 10 dogs with no reaction; he was even used as the friendly test dog for CGC one day. At the time he was adopted, he would still react to passing a dog in our own neighborhood on a walk but was much better. I find that stopping is much worse than if you keep moving and try to keep their attention on you.


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## FlowersGSD (Feb 27, 2011)

I appreciate the responses. for some reason I have some reservations about CU-not because it doesnt have solid science behind it-it does - just look at McDevitt's credentials...but some of the more shall we say 'old school' trainers (and even my vet ) talk down about positive training like this-so it isnt as respected *possibly*. I just want to do what will work for Ben and I dont want to waste time or possibly entrench bad behaviors by not choosing the right method. My gut tells me to do LAT/CU. does anyone know of any classes in Maryland?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That is really a shame that these old school trainers trash positive training. I know exactly what you are talking about! I can't even discuss dog training with one of my friends because she is old school. I am not a 100% positive trainer. I feel there is a time and a place for a correction however....

You have a choice...you can force your dog to do something through compulsion and possibly make his reactiveness worse (Been there!!! Done that!!!) Or you can reward for a good response, build confidence, build your relationship with your dog and motivate your dog to want to do something.

Not really much of a choice, is it?


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## FlowersGSD (Feb 27, 2011)

True dat!


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Jax08 said:


> Cured? No. Progress - most definitely!


This explains my experience, too. I don't think anything would "cure" Tanner's reactivity, but CU helped so much. Worth the effort.
Sheilah


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> That is really a shame that these old school trainers trash positive training. I know exactly what you are talking about! I can't even discuss dog training with one of my friends because she is old school. I am not a 100% positive trainer. I feel there is a time and a place for a correction however....
> 
> You have a choice...you can force your dog to do something through compulsion and possibly make his reactiveness worse (Been there!!! Done that!!!) Or you can reward for a good response, build confidence, build your relationship with your dog and motivate your dog to want to do something.
> 
> Not really much of a choice, is it?


 
Very true generally but I do admit to using a "firm" correction on occassion when my now much better dog would explode on an occassional dog we would meet. Seemed to work in the immediate time frame and situation.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Leslie is amazing, and I love the CU program! Are you on her email list? You have to have read the book or you'll be on "read only" status if you sign up, but there's still a ton of great stuff there. 

Halo is very good at the LAT game, which is only one part of CU. There are a lot of other great exercises as well. I started out doing a lot of them with Halo when she was just a puppy.


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## FlowersGSD (Feb 27, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom-how do u get on her email list?? would love to do so.

yes- i am not opposed to corrections with Ben, but think it works best with the LAT approach to build his confidence and give a structure within which to work in response to the reactivity .
Leslie said that if a dog understands the structure within which he must work ( with any issue) that the knowlege that there is a structure/game/rule does much to bring the anxiety level down in the first place. Thus less need for corrections. If he isnt ramped up as much he can respond to a correction. If he is over threshold...Nope-not gonna work.
I think this answers a question that many have about whether prong collar corrections actually do work or not.
It may be more about how far over the threshold (OT) the dog is rather than how effective the collar is.

Dog still in thinking mode?-yes-prong correction works.
Dog in 100% reactive mode (no thinking brain left to think with) - no, prong correction doesnt work.
JMHO based on what I am learning.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Prong Collars and Reactivity....

Based on my experience, and many others, the prong collar will actually ramp a dog up instead of working as a correction for an undesirable behavior. I find the e-collar a much better tool if you can get the timing right and if YOU can react correctly.

If you choose to use an e-collar (or ANY correction collar) for a reactive dog, make sure to do so with a trainer. You can make things much worse if you aren't sure what you are doing.


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

In my own experience, I think all the "correcting" I was doing for reactivity symptoms made things worse. I think I had a feeling that I needed to discourage any sign of reactivity, from forging ahead, to fixation, certainly whining etc and should not stand for them.

But I'm having much better luck with a more laid back approach. Now when he forges ahead (a reactivity symptom for him), I gently guide him back into place or gently hold him in place as we walk. Fixation, I gently nudge his head with my hand or by walking slightly towards him.

In the past, I would have given a harder correction for forging, trying to get him to get into the "proper" position by himself (to avoid more corrections). Bad idea, never worked. I'm giving him much more of a break now and he has made huge progress. We can now pass dogs of all sizes with a very interested look, but no big noisy reactions and no lunging. We can also approach dogs on leash, I can stand there and talk to the owner, with no big reaction. Unheard of for us before.

And we are seeking out dogs to walk past. Much different mindset than avoiding dogs. Now when we see another dog out, I think (and say out loud)-- cool! Another doggie! Let's go see him!

If I had to summarize what I find works:
* Don't correct/punish for the "wrong" behaviors , but GUIDE the dog to do the "right" behaviors. By getting out of the mindset of correcting, you will stop viewing his reactivity as "WRONG" or something that needs to be corrected, and you will probably feel more relaxed. He will be more relaxed too, which is the whole point.
* Remember the dog is just reacting to past associations, nothing more than that.
* Throw formal OBEDIENCE out the window in reactive situations until the dog is more comfortable. To expect a sit/down/stay in a reactive situation is setting everyone up for stress and failure. It may well be the cause of the reactivity in the first place, I believe it was for us.
* Work at a distance, end on a good note. Do not push the dog too far. Your job is to keep the dog under threshold and gradually build the association of normal calmness around dogs (that is the key to the whole thing).
* Expect setbacks. Again not a big deal, they are his old patterns again. Learn from it and move on.
* Seek out exposure to dogs, it will change your mindset (from avoidance) and the dogs mindset.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Ucdcrush said:


> *If I had to summarize what I find works*:
> * Don't correct/punish for the "wrong" behaviors , but GUIDE the dog to do the "right" behaviors. By getting out of the mindset of correcting, you will stop viewing his reactivity as "WRONG" or something that needs to be corrected, and you will probably feel more relaxed. He will be more relaxed too, which is the whole point.
> * Remember the dog is just reacting to past associations, nothing more than that.
> * Throw formal OBEDIENCE out the window in reactive situations until the dog is more comfortable. To expect a sit/down/stay in a reactive situation is setting everyone up for stress and failure. It may well be the cause of the reactivity in the first place, I believe it was for us.
> ...


I think you summed it up perfectly, sounds exactly like the course I've been on with my 2 older dogs and now what I am going thru with one of my dogs and a kitten.


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