# You didn't just growl at me did you?????



## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

Okay, my big boy who is as gentle as a lamb, and is currently on steroids, just growled as I tried to take a bone away from him. He has NEVER done that before. I've always taken his food or things away since he was a puppy so he knew who was responsible for giving and taking away. He has never growled. He is 12 months old and still on Pred for low platelets. Is this normal behavior? 

After he growled I went and got his leash and pinch collar and put it on him and attempted to take the bone away again. Each time he let out a low growl I corrected him with a sharp "no" and attempted to do it again. After a few no commands he allowed me to put my hand in his mouth and I did it a few more times until he didn't growl each time I attempted. I've no idea if what I did was what I should have done. Any advice is welcomed. 

Thank you!


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm no expert but it seemed to work, so don't knock it.


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## wilbanks17 (Feb 11, 2011)

Sounds like you corrected it just fine. Good job!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

steroids might be making him grumpy or maybe he doesn't feel good. Personally, I don't use a prong collar to 'correct' aggression because in my experience it ramps the dog up more. Work on trading him the bone for something of higher value so he doesn't start resource guarding.


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

Trading huh? He only seems interested in food since being on pred. Should I trade him with another piece of food?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Grissom said:


> Trading huh? He only seems interested in food since being on pred. Should I trade him with another piece of food?


Yeah... as long as he likes the food you're giving him in exchange. 

The point is to give him something even better than he already has, so he thinks that whenever you take something away that he's getting something even better in return. You want to train his mind to think that he has no reason to guard what he has.

Keep in mind that if you're constantly taking things away that it may make things worse. You attempt to take something of high value away from anyone enough times, after a while, it gets annoying and can cause a reaction and backfire.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

My girl is just a walking appetite on pred. It makes her so hungry, I've had trouble getting a bully stick away from her. I would not have used a prong collar or correction--I'd have traded and then not allowed bones until he's off the meds. But it sounds like what you did worked. Of course, my girl is 10 and terminal so I'm not real concerned about her developing aggression or resource guarding.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

PREDNISONE: 
Aggression Types | k9aggression.com

Plus as belhmannwa said, they are so hungry on pred. Sorry about your girl. 

Have you ever taken it? It is not pleasant!


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

I really appreciate all the advice. I don't take things away often, but it does make sense what you all are saying. I will try to do that! As for being on Pred! Holy cow!!!!!! He's starving all the time!!! I'm sorry about your baby.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Grissom said:


> After he growled I went and got his leash and pinch collar and put it on him and attempted to take the bone away again. Each time he let out a low growl I corrected him with a sharp "no" and attempted to do it again. After a few no commands he allowed me to put my hand in his mouth and I did it a few more times until he didn't growl each time I attempted. I've no idea if what I did was what I should have done. Any advice is welcomed.
> 
> Thank you!


Personally, I think you could be setting yourself up for a Silent bite.

Look at it from the dog's point of view. He growls (which is the ONLY way a dog can communicate with us stupid humans) to tell you that he wants to keep that bone.

You put on the prong collar and correct him for growling.

What has he learned? That when he GROWLS he gets corrected - not that when he GUARDS something.

So now the dog might just decide not to growl - which is his way of saying Back Off - and might decide to go right to biting.

What I do with possession problems is teach the dog that when they have something they think they need to protect and I reach for it - WONDERFUL things happen. That way the dog sees no NEED to protect the item from me (or anyone else).

I would be happy to explain how if you are interested.


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

Agree with Laurie. I would never correct growling. I would only work on figuring out what caused the growling, and how to change the dog's mindset so that he doesn't feel the need to growl anymore.

Growling is a symptom of a problem. You do not treat the symptom, you treat the cause.


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## Hachiak (Apr 15, 2011)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I would be happy to explain how if you are interested.


I would love to know how you do it! Hachi used to have the same problem and we tried to correct it almost in the same way. He stop, HOWEVER, a couple days ago he started again, after over 2 or 3 months of not doing it. What do you do?


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

I am totally interested in learning what you have to say! Please tell me more. I adore this big lug and he is my first shepherd, therefore, I know nothing! Please advise!!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Grissom said:


> Trading huh? He only seems interested in food since being on pred. Should I trade him with another piece of food?


We just put our 3yo male GSD on Pred also due to a problem with his spine (or so the vet thinks). Anyway our vet cautioned me that one side affect was a BIG increase in his appetite (and thirst as well). So that is to be expected - no growling for our guy however.

Could be that your pup is just a LOT more hungry!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I think that I would handle it the same if my dog growled at me when I tried to take something from him. We have never had this problem with any of our many GSD's except once with a 9mo male and that was only one time and never again. 

I don't think that a dog can reason that he is being corrected for the growl - he is actually being corrected for the aggression/guarding and for not giving the item up when asked to.

But everyone can think and act as they see fit with their own dog. Problem that I have is that I might not have with me a "higher value" item when I want to take something out of his mouth. Then I would have to wait untill I can find such an item; and then hope that my dog also agrees that it is an higher value thing.

OTOH, when you do correct him you have to be aware that he may not like the correction (and the force of the correction must be appropriate) and possibly react to it. A very few dogs have been known to "come up the leash" when corrected. But that type of dog might do that at any time if they feel that they can.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Grissom said:


> Trading huh? He only seems interested in food since being on pred. Should I trade him with another piece of food?


There's the answer to your why question. Prednisone is an appetite stimulant. He feels ravenous and is probably rather uncomfortable. 

Trade up with something more desirable. Praise him for taking things nicely and letting you take things from him. 

And remember that a growl is a very important warning system for a dog. Many dogs who are corrected for growling learn to go straight to biting with no warning.


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

My pup occasionally growls too when he gets something he really really likes, like a raw bone or something.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

BGSD said:


> My pup occasionally growls too when he gets something he really really likes, like a raw bone or something.


 
How old is he now? I would definetly work on stopping this behavior - because what might be kind of cute and funny when he is a little pup definetly will be something different when he is about 80-90 lbs of teeth and muscle!


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I just got off two weeks of Pred for a messed up shoulder. I was hungry and thirsty with dry mouth and caught myself getting pissy about stuff without cause. But, I also developed headaches and while my shoulder felt great, my body felt awful, if that makes sense.
I had a GSD puppy with AIAH a few years ago and she was on pred for over 5 months. Ate like a horse, drank like an elephant and was grumpy off and on. Once the pred was gone, she was her old self.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

*I would probably give the dog some space while he is on prednisone*

I never made a point of taking away food; instead I made sure my dog had a reliable "out" and he will drop food if I say that.

If I want his toy I ask for it (expecting compliance) and let him know he is good when he does.

--

Out of all my dogs I only had one with any resource guarding issues and that was with other dogs she would be food agressive. I did feed them separately; she was an unstable dog in other ways.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Grissom said:


> I am totally interested in learning what you have to say! Please tell me more. I adore this big lug and he is my first shepherd, therefore, I know nothing! Please advise!!


I'll post it when I get home tonight (it's a looong post).


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

codmaster said:


> How old is he now? I would definetly work on stopping this behavior - because what might be kind of cute and funny when he is a little pup definetly will be something different when he is about 80-90 lbs of teeth and muscle!


He's 3.5 months. Honestly, it's not cute or funny at this age either. haha. I'm working on it though.


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## angel18 (Apr 18, 2011)

Grissom said:


> Okay, my big boy who is as gentle as a lamb, and is currently on steroids, just growled as I tried to take a bone away from him. He has NEVER done that before. I've always taken his food or things away since he was a puppy so he knew who was responsible for giving and taking away. He has never growled. He is 12 months old and still on Pred for low platelets. Is this normal behavior?
> 
> After he growled I went and got his leash and pinch collar and put it on him and attempted to take the bone away again. Each time he let out a low growl I corrected him with a sharp "no" and attempted to do it again. After a few no commands he allowed me to put my hand in his mouth and I did it a few more times until he didn't growl each time I attempted. I've no idea if what I did was what I should have done. Any advice is welcomed.
> 
> Thank you!


I think it is normal and there is no harm but to make sure you better take it to check...







.good lucky


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

Thank you all for your advise. As I said earlier, Grissom is a big teddy bear. He is an extremely confident people loving dog and has never shown a single solitary moment of aggression in his 13 months. The bone I did try to look at was a raw bone with meat, so I know he coveted it tremendously. I will take all your advise to heart, and be wise to give him space while on the pred. He acts like he's never eaten in his life when I set the bowl down. Normally, he won't even finish his food as it never was that important to him. Now, on these steroids he can barely wait for the bowl to hit the floor. 

Thank you again for all your help and support.


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