# Canadian Breeder Suggestion



## January (Sep 15, 2019)

Looking for suggestions for Breeder. We are located in western Canada but are willing to ship from anywhere in Canada for the right puppy. Prefer not to import. We like working lines although the dog would be mostly a family companion/personal protection. Dog would need to be good with small children/other animals. We prefer black/black sable in color although demeanour is the most important. We also prefer the more strong boned types with blockout heads and straight backs.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I would highly recommend Canczech in B.C. They breed working lines and know what they produce. They don't have many breeding dogs and only breed a few litters a year, so you have to contact them and try to get in early on an upcoming litter. I got my male out of their Xly z Canczech and Bjori Soky-Pe. He is a lot of dog, but his littermate is calmer and less aggressive and is in a fall TV series on Apple TV called "See." All of their dogs are sable and they have frozen semen from a sable they breed to some.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Be very careful. The breeders in Canada are largely well behind on health testing and there are only a handful that have working lines that I would even consider. 
Von Tighe Haus in Ontario would be a start. And she will happily refer you to someone else if she has nothing that works for your needs. Stay away from anything in the west for working lines.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Canczech must be an exception regarding breeders in Western Canada. The owner has been breeding and working dogs for over 30 years. He is originally from the now Czech Republic and has contacts in Europe and travels to Europe at times looking at dogs. My dog's sire Xly, was sired by Corado z Vetrovej luky who was imported from Slovakia as a pup and turned into such a good producer, the Slovak National Police requested the owner of Canczech, send him back to Slovakia for multiple breedings and he has produced many dogs working for the Slovak National Police. The owner, Tony Nikl does one of the best jobs of exposing new pups to environmental stressors that I have seen. They are exposed to gunfire at a very early age and then increasingly louder gunfire as they mature. They are taught to eat off of a running ATV, and he even puts young pups in a small vest and sends them down a short zip line. While his dogs can be aggressive, they tend to have good discernment and are not sharp and reactive. Depending on the pup you get from a litter, some will need an experienced handler. As a pup, my mine was totally reckless and was not stop biting and there was no correcting or redirecting him out of it. He has matured into calm dog in the house and will come into drive in an instant, but is well controlled due to his training.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Canczech must be an exception regarding breeders in Western Canada. The owner has been breeding and working dogs for over 30 years. He is originally from the now Czech Republic and has contacts in Europe and travels to Europe at times looking at dogs. My dog's sire Xly, was sired by Corado z Vetrovej luky who was imported from Slovakia as a pup and turned into such a good producer, the Slovak National Police requested the owner of Canczech, send him back to Slovakia for multiple breedings and he has produced many dogs working for the Slovak National Police. The owner, Tony Nikl does one of the best jobs of exposing new pups to environmental stressors that I have seen. They are exposed to gunfire at a very early age and then increasingly louder gunfire as they mature. They are taught to eat off of a running ATV, and he even puts young pups in a small vest and sends them down a short zip line. While his dogs can be aggressive, they tend to have good discernment and are not sharp and reactive. Depending on the pup you get from a litter, some will need an experienced handler. As a pup, my mine was totally reckless and was not stop biting and there was no correcting or redirecting him out of it. He has matured into calm dog in the house and will come into drive in an instant, but is well controlled due to his training.


What's strange to me is that in spite of living in Alberta for 20+ years and searching exhaustively for a breeder in the region and speaking with breeders all over the country and working with trained dogs all over Alberta and into BC and speaking to members of the Alberta GSD club I had never heard of Canczech until I joined this forum. 
If they are good, great. I personally would want to know about DM testing, cardiac, MDR1, eyes. No mention of older dogs so longevity would be a question and clearly the dogs do movie work but what are they like to actually share a house with. The OP is looking for a pet good with children and other animals, so prey/hunt drive would be a question. As well as clear headed with an off switch if kids are in the picture.
Breeder support since the OP sounds fairly new to the breed would also be key.


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## January (Sep 15, 2019)

Chip Blasiole said:


> All of their dogs are sable and they have *frozen semen from a sable they breed to some*.


Thank you for the suggestion! My concern with breedings using frozen semen is the potential for compromised gene integrity in the puppies, as well as being unable to visit the sire if we wished. There is a study looking at using frozen semen in horses and how it compromises gene integrity; the science would be the same in dogs.


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## January (Sep 15, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> Be very careful. The breeders in Canada are largely well behind on health testing and there are only a handful that have working lines that I would even consider.
> Von Tighe Haus in Ontario would be a start. And she will happily refer you to someone else if she has nothing that works for your needs. Stay away from anything in the west for working lines.


Thank you for the information. I will look into that breeder. The dog would be exposed to a variety of animals large and small (horses, cows, cats, dogs etc), so would need to have little to no prey drive. It would also need to have a good off switch, good nerves, and medium drive overall. My partner grew up with GSDs, although we would be novice in raising a GSD puppy together. We definitely hope to dabble in events such as tracking/protection or whatever the dog showed strength in, but first priority is a family companion that would guard the home/family members.

What are your thoughts on Wendelin Farms?


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Sabis mom said:


> What's strange to me is that in spite of living in Alberta for 20+ years and searching exhaustively for a breeder in the region and speaking with breeders all over the country and working with trained dogs all over Alberta and into BC and speaking to members of the Alberta GSD club I had never heard of Canczech until I joined this forum.
> If they are good, great. I personally would want to know about DM testing, cardiac, MDR1, eyes. No mention of older dogs so longevity would be a question and clearly the dogs do movie work but what are they like to actually share a house with. The OP is looking for a pet good with children and other animals, so prey/hunt drive would be a question. As well as clear headed with an off switch if kids are in the picture.
> Breeder support since the OP sounds fairly new to the breed would also be key.


Same. I was just at the GSSCC National last month and not a single dog with a Canczech kennel name.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Angelas, working dogs do NOT show in the GSDCC nationals!! You might find a few in the OB classes, but as a rule, it's mostly ASL line show dogs.

What amazed and saddened me when looking through the catalogue was the number of NON-GSDs who show in the OB classes at the nationals. And of course, none of the GSDs were the same ones showing in the conformation classes.


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## M4RTEL (Sep 20, 2018)

@ sunsilver .. Angelas was referring to the GSSCC .. which is the German Shepherd Schutzhund Club of Canada Nationals ... pretty sure there wasn’t a ASL competing as none qualified at any of the regional events in Canada . The host club does have Sieger show at the same event for the show line dogs 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## January (Sep 15, 2019)

Thank you so much for the suggestions and insight. I wouldn’t be interested in puppies bred via frozen AI due to recent study showing compromised embryo gene health. My partner did own GSDs growing up and I also was raised with a dog although I would say we are novice at raising a GSD puppy. It would need to have virtually no prey drive as it will be around horses/cows/cats/dogs. A medium drive with a great off switch would be great as we would love to dabble in competitions. Good nerves, confident and somewhat social. However the primary focus would be a family companion that guards the home and serves as personal protection. We would be open to an adult dog as well if it met all the standards.


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## January (Sep 15, 2019)

What about Wendelin Farms?


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## cvamoca (Jul 12, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> Be very careful. The breeders in Canada are largely well behind on health testing and there are only a handful that have working lines that I would even consider.
> Von Tighe Haus in Ontario would be a start. And she will happily refer you to someone else if she has nothing that works for your needs. Stay away from anything in the west for working lines.


And from anything in the East. Quebec and Ontario might be fine. I looked into some in Ontario.


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## Elisabeth Ann Parent (Dec 1, 2016)

Actually... There are MANY wonderful breeders in Canada who follow the SV when it comes to their dogs and breedings.

Most can be found at your local IPO/IGP clubs... Go to the gsscc.ca and see if there is a club in your region. 

I am very lucky that in Ontario we have some heavy hitters who have represented the World Teams in recent years.


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## rotdocpa1 (Mar 19, 2018)

It sounds like you might be best with an adult dog that meets your requirements. You need a social dog with low prey drive and out of working lines-which tend to select for hi prey. Even a lower drive pup can change. An adult is what you see is what you get. I got my first schutzhund dog as a young adult and he was terrific. Puppies are a crap shoot. Some of the czech dogs are lower in prey but can be less social and you can easily get in over your head so keep that in mind.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

January said:


> What about Wendelin Farms?


We have a few members here with Wendelin dogs. And they seem to tick all the boxes. Reach out to them and see.



Elisabeth Ann Parent said:


> Actually... There are MANY wonderful breeders in Canada who follow the SV when it comes to their dogs and breedings.
> 
> Most can be found at your local IPO/IGP clubs... Go to the gsscc.ca and see if there is a club in your region.
> 
> I am very lucky that in Ontario we have some heavy hitters who have represented the World Teams in recent years.


Respectfully, no there aren't MANY. Ontario has most of them. I found squat in Alberta, Sask or Manitoba. The Maritimes were also a bust. BC has breeders but no reputable WL breeders that I could track down. 

I think in total I have found less then half a dozen WL breeders that I would deal with in Canada. 

With regards to clubs. I visited with three. One is a blatant breeder flogging her pups, one I would never deal with in principle because I was around when the trainer appeared and know past history that he would rather not admit and one is just a joke of a crap show.
Be very careful if you choose to visit clubs.

Canada and the US are worlds apart in some respects


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Carmspack [email protected]

Vonkolblhaus

VON TIGHE HAUS
https://www.unlimitedgsd.com/

As for a GSD without prey drive, it is part of and should be in the breed. Training is a crucial part to managing.


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## January (Sep 15, 2019)

Yes we definitely understand that, I misspoke. Some have very high prey drive which wouldn’t work for us. We would need a drive we can work with to allow the dog to coexist with other animals. Thank you very much for the insight and information.


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## cvamoca (Jul 12, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> We have a few members here with Wendelin dogs. And they seem to tick all the boxes. Reach out to them and see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're very right. I have spent the last 7 years searching for my next Ellie. I've looked at and chatted to so many breeders over those years and you know what? I'm still searching. 

There are some German showline and working line dogs here, nothing special. Most of the breeders listed by the CKC for my province and not even active anymore. Some are just insanely priced when they have no titles, their parents have no titles, not even a CGC etc. etc.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

M4RTEL said:


> @ sunsilver .. Angelas was referring to the GSSCC .. which is the German Shepherd Schutzhund Club of Canada Nationals ... pretty sure there wasn’t a ASL competing as none qualified at any of the regional events in Canada . The host club does have Sieger show at the same event for the show line dogs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yep. Nation IGP trial and National Seiger show.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

angelas said:


> Same. I was just at the GSSCC National last month and not a single dog with a Canczech kennel name.



They tend to breed for a more balanced dog and if you get the right pup, you will get a dog with a high level of aggression. My dog from Canczech has several international competition dogs close up in the pedigree- 3-3 Tyson von der Schiffslache 3 X BSP, Olix von Karthago BSP, Xino van Roy's Hoeve WUSV, Hoky Va-Pe WUSV, Olex de Valsory 4 X BSP and Honzal Okal WUSV.People with this type of GSD tend to do PSA over IGP. Another way IGP has led to selection away from dogs with good aggression is exercises in the BH such as heeling in the group and the sitting and downing in the crowd. It is not that a well trained dog with some aggression could not pass those exercises, but USCA and the SV are wanting only super social dogs. Actually, in PSA, you need much more control because decoys are on the field trying to get your dog to bite them in obedience and protection and they are not supposed to. The difference is that they have a suit on for protection. An aggressive GSD will not do well at the higher levels of PSA because the sport, IMO, puts too much emphasis on controlled aggression. For example, one scenario in a PSA 3 trial might be to have your dog in a crate and a decoy goes up to the crate beating on it aggressively and screaming at the dog. Then you are supposed to let the dog out and call him to heel. I think a dog with good aggression should bite someone after they have threatened the dog and that is usually what happens. Only one GSD has ever obtained a PSA 3 in the history of the sport. PSA 3 dogs are not really good breeding material because they are largely prey based and lack aggression. On the other hand, a littermate of my dog has worked on a movie set and can't have a high level of aggression, so it depends on the dog in the litter. Regarding AI, they have some semen from one dog and they have another stud dog they breed normally.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Chip Blasiole said:


> angelas said:
> 
> 
> > Same. I was just at the GSSCC National last month and not a single dog with a Canczech kennel name.
> ...


Wow, really? Beating on a crate and screaming at the dog in there? No title is worth subjecting my dog to that.

How does that not effect their crated behavior in morw nornal situations??


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

My dog has become very territorial, so if you come near his crate he lights up anyway. Some of the exercises put a lot of pressure on the dogs. We train with a bottle curtain made of aluminum Miller Light long neck cans that have thicker aluminum and they are filled with coins and there are a lot of bottles on the curtain, so it is extremely loud and the dog is tied out and the cans are violently shaken directly over and on the dog and the dog has to push through and take a bite


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Chip Blasiole said:


> My dog has become very territorial, so if you come near his crate he lights up anyway. Some of the exercises put a lot of pressure on the dogs. We train with a bottle curtain made of aluminum Miller Light long neck cans that have thicker aluminum and they are filled with coins and there are a lot of bottles on the curtain, so it is extremely loud and the dog is tied out and the cans are violently shaken directly over and on the dog and the dog has to push through and take a bite


Okay. Well, I am glad this isn't my sport. I don't honestly care about noise-- if a dog doesn't have sound or environmental sensitivity they ought to be able to work despite loud noise.

But screaming at and banging on a dog in a crate, well, pressure is not the word I'd use to describe it.

I know dogs get tied on tables to train for bite sports and I never like the look of it but I don't know enough about it to really pass judgment on that.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Our dogs needed to work in train yards, around helicopters, at concerts and events. They needed to maintain focus and do their job. We never tested them beyond exposure. They had people actually threaten and rush them while working fairly commonly. None were territorial. A real working dog needs to focus on the job not the stimulus. 
Any of the dogs we worked would have been fine as a pet. They were bred to be balanced. As a good dog should be.
Work a dog at the Calgary Stampede and you will see what it's made of.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

With the loud bottle curtain, it is more than sound sensitivity. The dog is tied out and attacked by the bottle curtain and has to push through it in the training so that in a trial he will be prepared. 
Thecowboysgirl,
It sounds like you think the scenario I described is abusive. I am not as concerned about that as that is it unreasonable to have a dog aggressed upon by someone and then expect the dog to ignore the aggressor. I think that is a major shortcoming of PSA, but the sport is about controlled aggression. 
To the person who commented on some of the kennels in Canada who breed dogs that are not titled, keep in mind that titles don't change genetics. All the German show line dogs are titled if they are going to be bred and they are not working dogs.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Chip Blasiole said:


> With the loud bottle curtain, it is more than sound sensitivity. The dog is tied out and attacked by the bottle curtain and has to push through it in the training so that in a trial he will be prepared.
> Thecowboysgirl,
> It sounds like you think the scenario I described is abusive. I am not as concerned about that as that is it unreasonable to have a dog aggressed upon by someone and then expect the dog to ignore the aggressor. I think that is a major shortcoming of PSA, but the sport is about controlled aggression.
> To the person who commented on some of the kennels in Canada who breed dogs that are not titled, keep in mind that titles don't change genetics. All the German show line dogs are titled if they are going to be bred and they are not working dogs.


Abusive, yes maybe, I'd have to say it depends on the dog. Even if it isn't straight up abusive it's still disturbing...and it seems to me like it would definitely impact the dog in other ways

Your posts seem very unconcerned. I hope when you are putting this amount of stress on a dog you are considering their welfare and honestly evaluating it.

Using words like "the dog is attacked"...that's strong language, is that actually the dog's perception of what's happening too?


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

PSA is primarily dominated by very high drive Mals whose high prey drive allows them to work through the extreme pressure put on the dog, provided they have the nerves for it and the training is good which often is not the case. IMO, there is a wave of poor training in the U.S. in the protection sports. Very few dogs title to a PSA 3. Being a GSD, my dog has good prey drive, but his aggression is higher. That means he takes things personally and has learned, with maturity and advancing slowly in the bite work, that he wants to fight the man. So the stress is actually building his confidence because he has learned that pushing through the stress turns it off. Often, people incorrectly, decrease the stress when a dog shows resistance or avoidance and that just reinforces the resistance and avoidance. Of course, the introduction of the environmental stressors and pressure from the decoy has to be at a lower level in the beginning and then become progressively more intense as the dog gains confidence. The dog will either work through the stress or he won't, but it has to be presented correctly in terms of intensity and frequency. In the higher levels of PSA, the dog is taunted by the decoys in protection and obedience to bite and they are not allowed except in specific situations, so control is paramount. They are also attacked by the decoy as a test of their confidence and nerves. I am not unconcerned. What I am describing is all part of the sport. The result of the training is that the dog is becoming stronger, but I have to be more vigilant with him. He is not the type of dog to let loose at a party or picnic.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I mean, just a random thought but among many other things: what happens if your dog becomes ill or injured and must be hospitalized?

He is already kennel aggressive and then has had it reinforced and made worse by this type of training? 

How is a vet supposed to handle him and treat him?


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

He was actually a social dog growing up. With maturity and training that teaches him how to fight a person and win, he has become very protective and enjoys the fight. He is not a sharp, highly reactive dog and a large part of his training has emphasized maintaining control so he can think and learn. Vets treat aggressive dogs that have been trained in bite work all the time. The last time he was at the Vet he did fine and let them draw blood from his neck and was calm. I always handle my dogs at the Vet and don't let them take the dog back to draw blood, etc. I will probably use a basic clothe muzzle next time just to be safe. The good thing is that he is not stressed at the Vet. Certain types of training will change a dog. It can't alter his genetics, but it can enhance the genetics that are there. IMO, the breed needs more dogs like this for things like police work. Many GSDs out of working lines lack the proper aggression needed to be able to work in big cities were there are some true bad guys. You can't have a dog working in a tough city that will bolt if he gets kicked in the head.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I was thinking more along the lines of if the dog had to be hospitalized/kennelled at a vet and could the staff approach him in a kennel or cage and treat him safely if you were not there


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