# Food suggestions... Taste of the Wild?



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I posted about my dog's gassy self in another thread.. http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/178538-gas-problem-non-gsd.html If you care to comment feel free! But I'm here now to get food suggestions for her and possibley my GSD. I am looking for a really great grain-free food. I am currently feeding Blue Buffalo Wilderness Duck formula to my adult GSD and Blue buffalo Large Breed Puppy formula to my 5 month old Boerboel. I'm looking at switching Athena to a different food that won't make her so gassy.. can anyone suggest a brand.. there were a few mentioned in the other thread but I wasn't able to find it at the pet stores where I'm at.. There is talk that Taste of the Wild is a really great grain free dog food.. I was going to get a bag the other day but realized they didn't have a large breed formula.. I have always been told that it is very important to get the one that says "large breed" because it's specific for them and regulates growth as a puppy.. how important is that factor in all honesty as opposed to just getting one that says "Puppy" on it.. Enlighten me oh wise ones...  Thanks in advance..


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I wouldn't feed TOTW to a puppy. Especially not for a giant breed. The calcium/phosphorus levels are too high. TOTW has a puppy formula, but even that has fairly high levels I believe. I would feed a good large breed formula till they are over a year old. I might even wait till 2 for your Boerboel since giant breeds take even longer to mature.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Exactly my thoughts... any brand suggestions that are not BB?


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Do you have Pinnacle available where you live? I've heard good things.....it is one of the FEW Sherman hasn't tried yet


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Personally, I WOULD feed TOTW puppy if it were me.

While I generally don't feed "puppy food", "large breed" ect... I want to keep the calcium level from being sky high. Which can be difficult if you want to feed grain free to a puppy, AND want a kibble that isn't mostly potatoes, peas, or some other "non meat".


One thing to consider, large breed kibbles haven't been around all that long, how did people manage to raise large and giant breeds when large breed kibble didn't exist? That's RIGHT!! They fed "regular" kibble.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

I just switched from Orijen to TOTW. TOTW smells awful, that is hard to get used to. Orijen smelled good. I am trying to move past that issue. I just started weaning him off of Orijen this week.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

TOTW puppy calcium levels are 1.3% for the Pacific Stream formula, and 1.4% for the High Prairie formula. Those numbers are on an "as fed"basis. 

The BB LBP is 1.2% MINIMUM. I would be willing to wager that it is equal to, even higher "as fed" than the TOTW. 

When things are listed as "minimum", there can be a fairly big difference between the listed minimum, and what the "as fed" number is.

I will use Canidae ALS an example since they list both the "min" AND "as fed" numbers:

Calcium "min" is 1.2%. "As fed", it is 1.8%! Rather big difference.

Granted, not all will have that big of a gap, but it's something to keep in mind. Looking at and worrying about the calcium, when it is listed as "min", doesn't tell the WHOLE story.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

So am I worrying about the calcium levels or protein, as far as growth goes. I know that BB WP had 36% protein as compared to the BB LPB which is 28% protein.. Is that going to play a role in growth like calcium will?? Sorry I'm not hugely familiar with all this. TOTW pup has the same protein level as BB WP.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> So am I worrying about the calcium levels or protein, as far as growth goes. I know that BB WP had 36% protein as compared to the BB LPB which is 28% protein.. Is that going to play a role in growth like calcium will?? Sorry I'm not hugely familiar with all this. TOTW pup has the same protein level as BB WP.


 
calcium levels is what you need to worry about in large breed puppies.

Here, this is being discussed on this thread right now

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/diet-nutrition/178599-i-found-interesting-dog-food.html


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Thanks! I'll be reading that thread!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Maybe I should also add that I'm intending on eliminating chicken from her diet as a trial and error deal to her gas.. plus my GSD can't eat it.


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Both of my GSDs are on Taste of the Wild Salmon formula (it's called Pacific Stream? Or Wetlands formula?... well, It's the fish one! lol)

They are both doing fantastic and their coats are coming in beautifully! Zira has SIBO and other digestion issues as well as sensitive skin and allergies.... So far she is doing 100x better on TOTW then she has on any other food (and we've tried many different ones). Her coat is nice, her weight is perfect, and she seems to be in a brighter mood.... also, much less gas. 

Good luck on your food search! I know it took us forever to find one for Z. What a headache... but so worth it when you find the one that works!!


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

BlackGSD said:


> TOTW puppy calcium levels are 1.3% for the Pacific Stream formula, and 1.4% for the High Prairie formula. Those numbers are on an "as fed"basis.
> 
> The BB LBP is 1.2% MINIMUM. I would be willing to wager that it is equal to, even higher "as fed" than the TOTW.
> 
> ...


Where are you getting the calcium percentages at 1.3% or 1.4% for those TOTW formulas? 

Looking at their website, they've got this in their FAQ section:

What is the calcium and phosphorus content in your dry formulas? 

High Prairie Dog-- *calcium:* *2.1%, as-fed*; phosphorus: 1.4%, as-fed

Pacific Stream Dog--* calcium: 1.9%, as-fed*; phosphorus: 1.1%, as-fed

Wetlands Dog-- *calcium: 2.1%, as-fed*; phosphorus: 1.4%, as-fed

Sierra Mountain Dog-- *calcium: 1.6%, as-fed*; phosphorus: 1.0%, as-fed

http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/faq#191

The lowest is the 1.6% Sierra, but everything else is around or over 2%, as fed. I couldn't find anything regarding the actual puppy formulas, but I'd assume since they're not LBP formulas, they're probably similar.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

TrickyShepherd said:


> Both of my GSDs are on Taste of the Wild Salmon formula (it's called Pacific Stream? Or Wetlands formula?... well, It's the fish one! lol)
> 
> They are both doing fantastic and their coats are coming in beautifully! Zira has SIBO and other digestion issues as well as sensitive skin and allergies.... So far she is doing 100x better on TOTW then she has on any other food (and we've tried many different ones). Her coat is nice, her weight is perfect, and she seems to be in a brighter mood.... also, much less gas.
> 
> Good luck on your food search! I know it took us forever to find one for Z. What a headache... but so worth it when you find the one that works!!


Titan was a pain in the butt to find one that he liked and had adequate nutrition.. he LOVED beneful.. I did not.. he hated every other food until blue buffalo wilderness duck formula. I even had problems with him on Raw.. I am just sad I have to do another search.. *sigh* such is life I suppose, LOL..

Also curious on the answer from BlackGSD...


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Lucy Dog said:


> Where are you getting the calcium percentages at 1.3% or 1.4% for those TOTW formulas?
> 
> Looking at their website, they've got this in their FAQ section:
> 
> ...


As I said, the numbers I posted are for the PUPPY formulas. 

Where did I get those numbers? From the company. I called them several months ago and asked. It isn't like I just decided to pick numbers out of thin air.

Anyone that doesn't believe me, PLEASE feel free to call for yourself. Then PLEASE report back and post what they told you.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Tracy, you magician you!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would not feed a large breed puppy a regular puppy food. Regular puppy food is generally too high in calcium. Better and cheaper to feed an adult kibble to a puppy than a regular puppy food. I would not feed TOTW to a puppy, but then I do not like to go grain free with puppies -- just personal preference, grain free foods have not been around all that long either.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

:rofl:


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Any one heard anything about California Natural?? this is what was suggested to my by my trainer.. Natural Dog Food, Cat Food and Puppy Food for Pets With Food Sensitivity ? California Natural she said single source protein (eliminating chicken) and this was what she used to use for her allergy dogs or sensitive stomach dogs..


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Just kidding the Calcium amount is 2.21% goodness.. this is not a fun search..


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Ok.. essentially this is what I'm looking for.. 

Large breed Puppy formula, single source protein that is not Chicken, Calcium levels of 1.4%-1.7% and grain free (preferabley).

I have found squat! I have found PLENTY with Chicken.. and PLENTY with another protein like lamb or fish but the calcium levels are high, and it's not for a large breed...

ugh.. :help:


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Did you check into some of the Pinnacle? They do not have a large breed specifically....but there grain free's showed calcium levels of 1.4 as fed....

Pinnacle® Holistic Limited Ingredient Dog Food Recipes


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

wyoung2153 said:


> Ok.. essentially this is what I'm looking for..
> 
> Large breed Puppy formula, single source protein that is not Chicken, Calcium levels of 1.4%-1.7% and grain free (preferabley).
> 
> ...


Have you checked out the Natural Balance grain fees? They're all single source protein and most are grain free.

**** Van Patten's Natural Balance Pet Foods: Dry Dog Food


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> Ok.. essentially this is what I'm looking for..
> 
> Large breed Puppy formula, single source protein that is not Chicken, Calcium levels of 1.4%-1.7% and grain free (preferabley).
> 
> ...


I believe California Natural has some single source that is not chicken. Also, Great Life does too.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

mysweetkaos said:


> Did you check into some of the Pinnacle? They do not have a large breed specifically....but there grain free's showed calcium levels of 1.4 as fed....
> 
> Pinnacle® Holistic Limited Ingredient Dog Food Recipes


I thought I did but maybe I overlooked something.. I shall look again!! :hug:



Lucy Dog said:


> Have you checked out the Natural Balance grain fees? They're all single source protein and most are grain free.
> 
> **** Van Patten's Natural Balance Pet Foods: Dry Dog Food


I have not.... but you better believe I will...



RocketDog said:


> I believe California Natural has some single source that is not chicken. Also, Great Life does too.


California natural and great life.. if I'm not mistaken, have single source but not for puppies.. and the puppy calcium level is super high (2.2%) I believe that was the same with Great Life, but I will indeed look again.. I'm desperate.. she needs new food...


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Good luck!!!!!!!

I don't recall ever seeing LBP formula that isn't chicken based.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Ok.. so I got her on.. http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/BisonDog.html 

Calcium levels are 1.0% according to the bag.. so that's good. And it's an All life stages food.. maybe I can get my picky eater on that too.. hmmm.... 

Thanks guys for all the help I really really appreciate it!


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

Natural Dog Food, Cat Food and Puppy Food for Pets With Food Sensitivity ? California Natural

Another possible option for you.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

BlackGSD said:


> Good luck!!!!!!!
> 
> I don't recall ever seeing LBP formula that isn't chicken based.


Solid Gold Wolf Cub is the only one that comes to mind.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Yeah I looked at them but the puppy formulas were too high in calcium.. but I will look into it when she gets older.. I liked the idea of the kangaroo one..


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

wyoung2153 said:


> Yeah I looked at them but the puppy formulas were too high in calcium.. but I will look into it when she gets older.. I liked the idea of the kangaroo one..


Solid Gold Wolf Cub? It's 1.5% max calcium; I thought you said you were looking for 1.4-1.7. It's got rice though.


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> Yeah I looked at them but the puppy formulas were too high in calcium.. but I will look into it when she gets older.. I liked the idea of the kangaroo one..


from the website:


> California Natural Grain Free Salmon Meal & Peas Formula Adult Dog Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO (Association of American Feed Control Officials) Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for all life stages. *Also appropriate for large breed puppies*.


It is not necessary to feed a puppy food. As long as it has appropriate protein, fat, and calcium you can feed an ALS food and generally save money by doing so.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Solid Gold Wolf Cub? It's 1.5% max calcium; I thought you said you were looking for 1.4-1.7. It's got rice though.


Yeah sorry I should have quoted.. I was talking about California Natural.. but I'll look yours up too.. I haven't heard of it.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

GrammaD said:


> from the website:
> 
> It is not necessary to feed a puppy food. As long as it has appropriate protein, fat, and calcium you can feed an ALS food and generally save money by doing so.


I did not know that... I am glad you shared that with me. Thank you! If this new one doesn't sit well with her, I will be on the lookout again and will remember that!

Another question.. sorry guys.. My GSD is on Blue Buffalo Wilderness Duck formula.. it's 34% protein.. He's doing great on it! However, I was thinking it might be nice to have them both on the same food.. and he seemed to like the little sample of Natural Balance Bison formula I gave him last night.. the only thing is the protein level is 20% is that huge jump in percentage going to do something to my GSD? is that too low for him?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

The fact that the NB is so low in BOTH protien AND fat bothers me. It also bothers me that it appears to have little meat. Notice a meat is NOT the first ingredient. BUT I know several people that feed it and their dogs do just fine.

The only way to know if it will work for your guy is to try it. Be aware that you will likely have to feed him more of the NB.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

So with the Protein being so low.. what does that mean for my dogs? I have generally always had them on 24%+ Titan has always been in the higher ranges.. Athena seems to like this food.. we'll see how well it does on her tummy..


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## Kyad02 (Oct 21, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> Maybe I should also add that I'm intending on eliminating chicken from her diet as a trial and error deal to her gas.. plus my GSD can't eat it.


Good Idea, all 3 of my shepherds did and do much better on redmeat and/or fish based kibble. I currently feed my six month old black shepherd Solid Gold Wolf Cub.Its a Bison/Salmon recipe.He does great on it. Firmm poops and his coat glows. My 2 and a half year old is on TOTW. He does great also. I switch between the High Plains Prarie (Red meat) and Pacific Stream (fish) formulas. Hope this helps.


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## Kyad02 (Oct 21, 2011)

Photos - Jersey Shore Shepherds (and Friends!) (Forked River, NJ) - Meetup The black shepherd is my boy Baron,pics taken last month at 5 months old. Check out the sheen in his coat. Solid Gold Wolf Cub has been great for him.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Looks like I will be looking at Solid Gold Pup next.. Not entirely liking the Natural Balance..


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I wouldn't put a dog on any of the Natural Balance LID formulas unless it was a last resort. Especially the more "exotic" meat source ones, they're basically bags of over priced potatoes.

I'd stick with the Blue Wilderness personally, I wouldn't put a healthy, non-food allergy dog on Natural Balance.

I am a BIG fan of Solid Gold though, I fed it for many years and had great success on it. :thumbup:


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## Pandora (Feb 29, 2012)

I've been feeding Taste of the Wild, the bison-venison kind, augmented with local eggs and bison. My GSD will be 3 April 5; my rescued dog is 19. Both are in superb condition. Even the old girl bounces around and makes me laugh.


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

ChancetheGSD said:


> I wouldn't put a dog on any of the Natural Balance LID formulas unless it was a last resort. Especially the more "exotic" meat source ones, they're basically bags of over priced potatoes.
> 
> I'd stick with the Blue Wilderness personally, I wouldn't put a healthy, non-food allergy dog on Natural Balance.
> 
> I am a BIG fan of Solid Gold though, I fed it for many years and had great success on it. :thumbup:


I laughed when I saw this because while we had my rescue Golden on his elimination diet I used to haul in those bags of NB bison and sweet potato and say "here is my $60 sack of potatoes." Should be called sweet potato and bison, imo. If Nature's Variety had expanded their LID line beyond turkey and lamb I would have gone that route.

Due to my granddaughter's critical illness I had to ditch the raw feeding I was attempting to start and stick with kibble. We moved off the Wellness Super 5 Mix and onto Diamond Naturals after it was recommended by someone I train with and color me impressed by the results. Half the cost too. Every dollar I can save on food, while still providing a quality diet, is a dollar I can spend on training and fun


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

GrammaD said:


> I laughed when I saw this because while we had my rescue Golden on his elimination diet I used to haul in those bags of NB bison and sweet potato and say "here is my $60 sack of potatoes." Should be called sweet potato and bison, imo. If Nature's Variety had expanded their LID line beyond turkey and lamb I would have gone that route.
> 
> Due to my granddaughter's critical illness I had to ditch the raw feeding I was attempting to start and stick with kibble. We moved off the Wellness Super 5 Mix and onto Diamond Naturals after it was recommended by someone I train with and color me impressed by the results. Half the cost too. Every dollar I can save on food, while still providing a quality diet, is a dollar I can spend on training and fun


Yeah and NB doesn't seem to fill her up.. I have never had her scrounging for food so much.. so after this it looks like Solid Gold will be a good try.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

ChancetheGSD said:


> I wouldn't put a dog on any of the Natural Balance LID formulas unless it was a last resort. Especially the more "exotic" meat source ones, they're basically bags of over priced potatoes.
> 
> I'd stick with the Blue Wilderness personally, I wouldn't put a healthy, non-food allergy dog on Natural Balance.
> 
> I am a BIG fan of Solid Gold though, I fed it for many years and had great success on it. :thumbup:


I love Blue Buffalo. My GSD is on BBW Duck and loves it. She was on the BB LBP. But she has SEVERE gas so she needed a diet change. I eliminated Chicken as a trial and error deal. Seems that everything she has been eating since I got her has had chicken, even on raw, and she has had AWFUL gas since I got her.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

I know it's been mentioned before but I would really take a look at the Pinnacle GF foods... The Calcium is in your range for the pup but it also has decent protein and fat content. I fed it for quite a while and my dogs loved it! Plus, no chicken! Just another possible option  Plus they have the peak protein formula for your GSD if he needs a richer food. Good luck on your food quest!! It can be frustrating for sure.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Yeah that one looks like a good one too.. I will have to keep a look out for it if solid doesn't do well. Thanks for the help! And yeah it is very frustrating.. I had this food hunting frustration with my GSD when I first got him as he was the pickiest eater I ever had.. literally would starve himself on principle (regardless of what people say, he was THAT stubborn, a whole 5 days without eating.. just drank water and slept.. new kibble... then he ate.) we went through a total of like 12 brands.. good grief he was difficult.. and now Miss Athena and her foul smells.. lol.. and an almost certain food allergy to something.. fun fun fun  All in a days work I suppose.. hehe.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I didn't switch my GSD to TOTW till she was 2. She was on blue buffalo puppy for large breeds before that. Soon as she was fully switched she got sick. I dunno if it was the food or what but she stopped eating. Took her to vet all was fine except she wouldn't eat! Soon as I switched her back to blue she BEGAN EATIng again. my husky is still on TOTW i personally love it but for some reason my GSD doesnt. She is back on blue for large breed now


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Weird.. my GSD wouldn't eat anything but blue buffalo.. never tried him on TOTW though. My Boerboel will eat anything you put in her bowl. LOL.


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## dsanders460 (Feb 13, 2012)

The TOTW that is in the purple bag (Sierra formula I believe) is Lamb based, and has the protein and phosporus levels in the range you are looking for I believe. I switched my GSD to it at 6 mos (almost 9 mos old now!!) and she has been doing GREAT. 

Info from TOTW page: 
Protein: 25% Minimum, Fat: 15% Minimum
Calcium: 1.6%, as-fed; Phosphorus: 1.0%, as-fed
Calories: 3,611 kcal/kg (338 kcal/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy

Hope you find something that BOTH of you like...I know how irritating it can be for your dog to HATE thier kibble...


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

GrammaD said:


> .....Should be called sweet potato and bison, imo.


Actually it IS called sweet potato and bison! All of the NB grain free kibbles have the sweet potato or potato FIRST in the name.


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

BlackGSD said:


> Actually it IS called sweet potato and bison! All of the NB grain free kibbles have the sweet potato or potato FIRST in the name.


Well butter my butt and call me bread :laugh: It has, thankfully, been so long since I fed the stuff I didn't remember that.... either that or my age is catching up with me!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Haha! looks like that was the first and last bag of NB my Athena will be getting.. Next we try Solid Gold ) yippyyyyyy


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## Kyad02 (Oct 21, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> Haha! looks like that was the first and last bag of NB my Athena will be getting.. Next we try Solid Gold ) yippyyyyyy


 Let us know how you make out, my boy absolutely devoures this food and his poops are solid with very little gas(wish I could say the same for my teenage sons, lol). Plus its vacum sealed for freshness good luck Bruce


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Help! Ok so I switched Athena to NB Bison formula and her gas went completely away. I didn't think one night and gave her a piece of chicken.. her gas came back with vengeance! haha so it appears she is allergic to chicken or something.. Well per discussion I changed her to Solid Gold Wolf cub bison formula. No Chicken in there.. and her gas is back.. and oh man.. clearing rooms.. she eats a lot of leaves/sticks/dirt outside.. no matter how much i try to prevent it seems I'm always pulling leaves and sticks out of her mouth. Not sure now if it's the food or the debris she inhales... help.. please.. if it's a me thing I'm fine with that.. but I can't have this gas in my house much longer.. it makes me gag.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> Help! Ok so I switched Athena to NB Bison formula and her gas went completely away. I didn't think one night and gave her a piece of chicken.. her gas came back with vengeance! haha so it appears she is allergic to chicken or something.. Well per discussion I changed her to Solid Gold Wolf cub bison formula. No Chicken in there.. and her gas is back.. and oh man.. clearing rooms.. she eats a lot of leaves/sticks/dirt outside.. no matter how much i try to prevent it seems I'm always pulling leaves and sticks out of her mouth. Not sure now if it's the food or the debris she inhales... help.. please.. if it's a me thing I'm fine with that.. but I can't have this gas in my house much longer.. it makes me gag.


So if the NB worked why did you switch from it? Switching foods 100% is not very good for the dogs tummy. You gotta stick with something for at least a week I would think. But you have to slowly get them off the previous food.

Careful reading into what others post. Someone here posted the best thing I ever read about dog food. If it works best for your dog it is the best. 

NB is rated very high in quality and they test there food for disease. They only use one Chinese ingredient taurine which I think all the foods that use that have to get it in China.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

kr16 said:


> So if the NB worked why did you switch from it? Switching foods 100% is not very good for the dogs tummy. You gotta stick with something for at least a week I would think. But you have to slowly get them off the previous food.
> 
> Careful reading into what others post. Someone here posted the best thing I ever read about dog food. If it works best for your dog it is the best.
> 
> NB is rated very high in quality and they test there food for disease. They only use one Chinese ingredient taurine which I think all the foods that use that have to get it in China.


That is really good advice about dog food. I guess my concern was the low protein level at 20% and Calcium at 1.0% and the fact that meat isn't the first ingredient. 

I assumed those things really mattered.. what do you think?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> Good luck!!!!!!!
> 
> I don't recall ever seeing LBP formula that isn't chicken based.


Eagle Pack Large Breed Puppy isn't chicken based and that is what I give my puppy. My older dogs are on the adult formula and have been for years with no problems.....I switched to this one when I had a lab that had terrible gas

Ingredients
Lamb Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Ground Yellow Corn, Chicken Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Oatmeal, Anchovy & Sardine Meal, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Menhaden Fish Oil, Dried Egg Product, Wheat Germ Meal, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Inulin, DL-Methionine, Beta-Carotene, Vitamins [Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Biotin], Minerals [Polysaccharide Complexes of Zinc, Iron, Manganese and Copper, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite], Choline Chloride, Dried Kelp, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Enterococcus faecium, Bacillus subtilus, Bacillus licheniformis, Aspergillus oryzae and Aspergillus niger Fermentation Products, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative).

Crude Protein	(min.)	23.00%
Crude Fat	(min.)	12.00%
Crude Fiber	(max.)	3.50%
Moisture	(max.)	10.00%
Calcium	(min.)	1.50%
Phosphorus	(min.)	1.00%
Vitamin A	(min.)	22,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E	(min.)	165 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)*	(min.)	30 mg/kg
Beta-Carotene*	(min.)	5 mg/kg
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA)*	(min.)	0.10%
Omega 6 Fatty Acids*	(min.)	2.10%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids*	(min.)	0.65%
Total Lactic Acid Micro-organisms*	(min.)	100,000,000 CFU/lb


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

llombardo said:


> Eagle Pack Large Breed Puppy isn't chicken based and that is what I give my puppy. My older dogs are on the adult formula and have been for years with no problems.....I switched to this one when I had a lab that had terrible gas


Mind me asking what your lab was on before?? Just trying to compare ingredients to what worked to what didn't. Whether it's based on the protein or other ingredients..


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> Mind me asking what your lab was on before?? Just trying to compare ingredients to what worked to what didn't. Whether it's based on the protein or other ingredients..


He was on Pedigree, that didn't work and then I went to Iams and that was even worse

Iams Ingredients
Chicken, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Flavor, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Caramel, Flax Meal, Choline Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, DL-Methionine, Rosemary Extract.


Crude Protein minimum	25.0%
Crude Fat minimum	14.0%
Crude Fiber maximum	4.0%
Moisture maximum	10.0%
Omega-6 Fatty Acids minimum	2.5%*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids minimum	0.17%*


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Eagle Pack Large Breed Puppy isn't chicken based and that is what I give my puppy. My older dogs are on the adult formula and have been for years with no problems.....I switched to this one when I had a lab that had terrible gas
> 
> Ingredients
> Lamb Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Ground Yellow Corn, Chicken Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Oatmeal, Anchovy & Sardine Meal, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Menhaden Fish Oil, Dried Egg Product, Wheat Germ Meal, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Inulin, DL-Methionine, Beta-Carotene, Vitamins [Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Biotin], Minerals [Polysaccharide Complexes of Zinc, Iron, Manganese and Copper, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite], Choline Chloride, Dried Kelp, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Enterococcus faecium, Bacillus subtilus, Bacillus licheniformis, Aspergillus oryzae and Aspergillus niger Fermentation Products, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative).
> ...


***This is the large breed puppy formula***


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

*This is Eagle Pack's adult dog formula....*

Lamb Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Yellow Corn, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Oatmeal, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Meal, Anchovy & Sardine Meal, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Wheat Germ Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Vitamins [Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Biotin], Minerals [Zinc Polysaccharide Complex, Iron Polysaccharide Complex, Manganese Polysaccharide Complex, Copper Polysaccharide Complex, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite], Choline Chloride, Dried Kelp, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Inulin, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Mixed Tocopherols added to preserve freshness, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract.

Crude Protein	(min.)	23.00%
Crude Fat	(min.)	12.00%
Crude Fiber	(max.)	3.50%
Moisture	(max.)	10.00%
Calcium	(min.)	1.50%
Phosphorus	(min.)	1.10%
Vitamin A	(min.)	22,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E	(min.)	165 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)	(min.)	30 mg/kg
Omega 6 Fatty Acids*	(min.)	2.30%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids*	(min.)	0.55%
Glucosamine Hydrochloride	(min.)	340 mg/kg
Total Lactic Acid Microorganisms*	(min.)	70,000,000 CFU/lb


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

It has chicken product though and she's allergic to chicken :/


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> It has chicken product though and she's allergic to chicken :/



My lab did too and he was fine on the food...we were able to breathe in the house again


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

You know, I see these threads a lot looking for good LBP foods/ specifically grain free ones. So I went and did the legwork.

The following foods all fall within the generally accepted guideline of 1.5% calcium or lower, ~1% phos, and are also grain free:

Acana While Prairie GF (1.5/1.3 MAX numbers)
AvoDerm Revolving Menu Trout (1.18/.95)
AvoDerm Revolving Menu Turkey (1.2/.85)
California Naturals GF Salmon/Peas (1.37/.87)
Innova PRIME GF Salmon (1.4/1.0)
Pinnacle GF Salmon (1.4/1.0)
Pinnacle GF Turkey (1.4/1.0)
Taste of the Wild PUPPY High Prairie (1.4/1.0)
Taste of the Wild PUPPY Pacific Stream (1.3/1.0)

IN THEORY Orijen LBP, 6 Fish, regular adult, and Acana Pacifica are also all acceptable to feed despite the higher calcium numbers, due to the calorie distribution of the food (higher calories, feed less, less calcium per gram on an as-fed basis).

And these are just the ones with POSTED, easily accessible numbers. There are plenty that list MINIMUM #s that probably come close or are within the range that you want. Brands like NOW! GF puppy, Nature's Variety LID Turkey, Blue Wilderness Large Breed ADULT (which actually has a lower min. calcium % than the puppy... go figure). Emailing the companies and asking for MAX #s isn't all that hard, and would give you the exact information you need to make a proper decision. 

Personally I bought a bag of the AvoDerm revolving menu Trout for mine on days when I'm too lazy to prepare their raw, and all dogs (including the 5 month old puppy) did fine on it. Biggest complaint was that Ridley had somewhat tar-y (dark black, a little slimy) stools, but they were firm and considering he's eaten raw for the majority of his life... not totally shocking.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

llombardo said:


> My lab did too and he was fine on the food...we were able to breathe in the house again


Well maybe I will give it a try. I just hate switching her food so much, why can't I have at least one dog that doesn't require me to go through like 17 different brands?! Sorry.. minor outburst, lol.



atravis said:


> You know, I see these threads a lot looking for good LBP foods/ specifically grain free ones. So I went and did the legwork.
> 
> The following foods all fall within the generally accepted guideline of 1.5% calcium or lower, ~1% phos, and are also grain free:
> 
> ...


Definitely will keep all those in mind! Thank you so much for the research!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Is Natural Balance really that bad? I know what a few think.. but just curious.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

wyoung2153 said:


> Is Natural Balance really that bad? I know what a few think.. but just curious.


I would not personally feed it unless I had a severely allergic dog, else one that had a dietary _requirement_ for low protein. 

It isn't that the food itself is poor quality- as in, uses bad ingredients/etc.

Its that dogs NEED good protein and fat in order to properly feed their biddies. Puppies especially, and I would absolutely never feed any of their LID diets to a growing pup for that reason. 

Maybe look into their "Alpha" line, it has higher protein while still being grain free. You will need to email them and ask for cal/phos #s, however, as they are not openly listed.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

_Well maybe I will give it a try. I just hate switching her food so much, why can't I have at least one dog that doesn't require me to go through like 17 different brands?! Sorry.. minor outburst, lol._

Thats okay, that is what we are here for The lab is the only dog I've ever had a problem with so I feel your pain


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> Is Natural Balance really that bad? I know what a few think.. but just curious.


 
Its rated very high and if its what your dog needs for digestion and to be healthy you go for it. Email NB, they respond and answer questions. 

IM not going to get in on the high or low protein discussion, people here have strong opinions on that, not sure if they are valid. 

I would recommend googling that and doing some research.

It would be cool to see a cloned dog, one on old roy and one on Orijen and see which one did better in the life span. Its all in the genes.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

llombardo said:


> _Well maybe I will give it a try. I just hate switching her food so much, why can't I have at least one dog that doesn't require me to go through like 17 different brands?! Sorry.. minor outburst, lol._
> 
> Thats okay, that is what we are here for The lab is the only dog I've ever had a problem with so I feel your pain


Well it's a good thing or I might have lost my mind completely already 



atravis said:


> I would not personally feed it unless I had a severely allergic dog, else one that had a dietary _requirement_ for low protein.
> 
> It isn't that the food itself is poor quality- as in, uses bad ingredients/etc.
> 
> ...


I haven't even heard of it.. I will email them though. See what they say about protein levels and all that.



kr16 said:


> Its rated very high and if its what your dog needs for digestion and to be healthy you go for it. Email NB, they respond and answer questions.
> 
> IM not going to get in on the high or low protein discussion, people here have strong opinions on that, not sure if they are valid.
> 
> ...


And google I shall!  Honestly, if she were an adult dog I wouldn't actually mind feeding it if that's what worked for her. I think I'm more concerned with that fact that she's a growing puppy, and a large breed at that. I'm giving her Cosequin Joint supplements to help with all that so I'm wondering if the calcium levels aren't really a worry anymore with the supplements.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Ok guys.. made some calls and looks like I am going back to Natural Balance. After talking to their nutritionist people, they gave me all the stats. Most of you probably know this.. but they are required to label their bags with the minimum amounts that you are guaranteed. The Dry matter analysis has on average, the follow.. 24.3% protein, 1.3% Calcium, and 12% fat. 

Since she had no problems on that food I am going to put her back on it.. I can't have a stinky house anymore. I will talk to the vet today about it just to make sure I'm good to go and see what she thinks. 

Thanks guys for all the help and suggestions!


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

Their nutritionist people are amazing thats why I suggested you reach out to them. Get them to send you some coupons if they didnt already.


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## Riley3696 (Aug 24, 2011)

kr16 said:


> Its rated very high and if its what your dog needs for digestion and to be healthy you go for it. Email NB, they respond and answer questions.
> 
> IM not going to get in on the high or low protein discussion, people here have strong opinions on that, not sure if they are valid.
> 
> ...


My Lab has always done better on Old Roy Bites and Bones. I have him on TOTW but his tummy does much better on Old Roy. He is 12 and I have been through so many foods and the Old Roy is the ONLY one that doesn't give him bad gas.


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