# 2 females



## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

I know people go round and round about having 2 females. I am not one who believes that can not live together because right now I have in my home 3 female GS 8,1, 6 months and 3 female shih tzu 3, 2, 1.

My 1 year old GS (stella) is the one I am having problems with. She plays well with everyone but she has on 4 occasions challenged my 8 year old over something. Twice it was a bag of food I carried in the house and set down and twice a bone. She has on 3 of those occasions bitten the 8'year old puncturing her fur. One time the 8 year Old (Jenna) put her in her place and literally held her snout shut with her mouth and she did get a small wound from the 8 year old. The fights are pretty spread out but otherwise everyone gets along. The problem is when she does choose to brawl like this she does not let go. We pull her off and she just holds on the other one will release and leave the situation. She stays mad for a good minute afterwards so we remove her from the situation and put her in her crate. Upon releasing her after cooling off she is fine and the 8'year old are fine. They will wag tails and play together. All is forgiven. 

My concern is will she put grow this behavior? Will she start challenging more as she gets older and bigger. She is about 1 right now. she is a rescue pup and I have had her for about 8 months now. She was staring when I brought her home and has taken time to get healthy. I have her as a foster but have considered keeping her, but I can also place her. She is super smart and needs stimulation every day which I try to do. My 8 year old is my like my child and she really is my priority to keep her safe and happy. I also have an 11 year old child who I am concerned will get in the mix. She is great will all the other females. I think because they all back down if challenged. These two dogs I think are more equals in personality. I am hoping this is just "teenage" behavior that she will get past. I have a mega esophagus pup right now so my hands are a bit full. She will be here for awhile. Stella, the one year old, gets along and plays well with Dutchesss the puppy. Thoughts appreciated.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

JennaMae said:


> I know people go round and round about having 2 females. I am not one who believes that can not live together because right now I have in my home 3 female GS 8,1, 6 months and 3 female shih tzu 3, 2, 1.


I'm a little confused. You have three females living together with behavioral issues. But you stated you don't think three females living together will have behavioral issues. 

I'm not sure what information you are looking for.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

No I have one female that s the one with the issues. Stella she is one years old. She is the one who will bit my 8 year old. I actually have 6 female dogs in my home.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

Sorry typing on my phone that has a mind of its own. I meant to say Starving not Staring. Stella the one year old came to me skin and bones. So I thought perhaps it was food issues but she can eat with everyone and share out of her food bowl. She really is being a jerk just because she wants to be. I catch her other times and redirect her and her attitude. You see it in her posturing. I make sure she is not alpha. She gets her food last, goes out the door last etc. But can you really change the behaviors of a dog who s very confident and strong willed like this?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Of course females CAN get along, its just a risk. Many people will tell you not to have two intact females (I know plenty of people with two fixed females). You just have to have a large enough home to where you can separate them if things happen like what you're describing.

Most likely...they will not outgrow this behavior. If they're "randomly" fighting they will keep doing it. Unless you really monitor them and see what sets it off, it won't stop. In this case it seems like food and other high value items do it. So just don't give them bones or anything else they might feel like guarding.

The issue with random fights is that you can never trust them alone together. What if you weren't there to break them up? One of your dogs would be dead.

So when people say don't get two dogs of the same sex, its because in general its a bigger risk. You don't know for sure that they'll get along, where as most male/female combos might battle once or twice for hierarchy but then settle down...and even then usually one takes control without a fight.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

I do believe it is more about the individual dogs than about the sex of the dogs, however, it is much easier to have two females fall into a pattern of fighting than it is for male/female or even male/male.

You have a female who is telling you that you are not managing her enough, and she does not respect you. She chooses when to resource guard and will start a fight even in your presence. She will not outgrow this.

First thing is management, do not leave toys/food/bones hanging around - not even for a second.

Second, I would not peel this dog off another dog and then put her in her crate. Where is the correction? Have you ever corrected this dog for the unwarranted show of aggression?

You may find that with these two you will have to manage them for life, one of the risks of owning multiple dogs, regardless of sex. They should NEVER be left alone together (seperated when no one is home) and managed when you are there.

I have 3 intact females, no issues, all three are extremely confident, handler soft but hard otherwise (although one is 4.5 lbs). I have not had an issue yet...(knock on wood)...and manage these dogs thoroughly so that I never will.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

Lilie said:


> I'm a little confused. You have three females living together with behavioral issues. But you stated you don't think three females living together will have behavioral issues.
> 
> I'm not sure what information you are looking for.


Did you read the entire post? I believe females can live together because I have females who do. I have one female who will fight with one dog. I clearly define who is top dog in my house. It me first, then the 8 year old. All the dogs respect this but Stella. Jenna the 8 year old is also 75lbs to Stella's 55lbs. Jenna gives a warning growl or bark and the other dogs know to leave her. Stella looks at it as an invitation to come closer.


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## CurvyOne (Dec 21, 2012)

Considering she is only a year, you probably can help her behavior out and maybe even resolve it. But you likely need a professional who is familiar and experienced with these issues. Otherwise, try to keep food separate from the group, until you've helped her with the issues. The more she feels the need to brawl over the food, the more the anxiety and issues will escalate. 

My older dog has food issues and when I first got my pup, he bit the pup over a simple treat. The puppy had a treat and dropped it. Older dog went to get it and bit the puppy. I kept them separate and away from any food at the same time. Just the other day, after trust had been built for over 2 months, I threw some treats on the grass for the puppy to sniff out. I was writing outside and wanted to give pup something to do. I didnt realize the back door was open, and when I looked up, the older dog and the puppy were sniffing out treats together and sharing just fine. 

It doesnt always workout that easily, but sometimes it does. You just need to not let the problem escalate until better trust is built between the females, or you get some professional help. 

Good luck


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

No, she will not grow out of it. You may have good luck with training and behavior modification so that they get along better but they do not just grow of things like this.

Also, she is only 1 year old and is not yet physically or emotionally mature and it will likely continue to get worse and there may be more challenging. You need to focus on making sure their relationship is good and without tension. Stop the younger one from guarding and don't put the older one in position to have to (or be allowed to) correct the younger one.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

If she's only a year old, my guess is this situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. If it ever gets better.

How often do these fights break out?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

JennaMae said:


> Did you read the entire post? I believe females can live together because I have females who do. I have one female who will fight with one dog. I clearly define who is top dog in my house. It me first, then the 8 year old. All the dogs respect this but Stella. Jenna the 8 year old is also 75lbs to Stella's 55lbs. Jenna gives a warning growl or bark and the other dogs know to leave her. Stella looks at it as an invitation to come closer.


She's one and is going to challenge the 8 year old. The 8 year old is aging, slowing down, and won't be able to "hold" the top position no matter how hard you try. This generally happens in female packs...a younger one will challenge an older one for top dog and will usually win. It also depends on their personality and it sounds like Stella's is stronger than Jenna's.

The other dogs don't really matter at this point...they're small. Of course they aren't going to challenge a GSD for top dog.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

The 1 year old is intact due to having been malnourished etc. she will be spayed soon. She never does this if I am in the room. Only when I am not. It has happened 4 times since in about 4 months as she gets older. But you are right I have to work with this one everyday. She will often times ignore my command and I have to tell her it again. I do correct her before putting her in her crate with strong verbal correction. How would you correct her.. The crate is only for a very short time so I can examine if any damage was done to either of them. She is high energy. I do think she may be better off being placed. The energy it takes ti mirco manage her is a lot. Everyone coexist Very well. my shih tzus get into it now and then but you can verbally call them off and they listen stopping the behavior. Otherwise she is a great dog. She likes kids, cats, small and large dogs. she is super smart. But I see her desire to be top dog. Every dogs she meets she will put her head over their back/neck right off the top.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Since it only happens when they're in a room unsupervised (or you not around), stop allowing that. When you're not there, always have the younger one in a crate. No exceptions. 

I wouldn't yell at the dog and then put her in the crate. You don't want to make the crate a punishment or negative place. It was your mistake if this only happens when you're not around. Just put the dog in there without the correction.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

martemchik said:


> She's one and is going to challenge the 8 year old. The 8 year old is aging, slowing down, and won't be able to "hold" the top position no matter how hard you try. This generally happens in female packs...a younger one will challenge an older one for top dog and will usually win. It also depends on their personality and it sounds like Stella's is stronger than Jenna's.
> 
> The other dogs don't really matter at this point...they're small. Of course they aren't going to challenge a GSD for top dog.


I just bring up the other ones to show she is gentle with them and obviously has control. So do I let her be alpha then? I do agree that Jenna the older one does not have as strong of personality. I am leaning towards letting her be adopted through our rescue. That was the original intention. She was not healthy so she came here. Now she is very healthy and ready. I have a special needs 6 month old GS here right now so it may be best to let her go. My son who adores her wants me to keep training her in hopes it won't happen again. It happens about once a month now. But for me that is one time to many. I suggested to him that our next GS be a male puppy. He seemed happy about that. I generally do not take males because I garden in the summer and the males always pee on my vegetables"


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

Lucy Dog said:


> Since it only happens when they're in a room unsupervised (or you not around), stop allowing that. When you're not there, always have the younger one in a crate. No exceptions.
> 
> I wouldn't yell at the dog and then put her in the crate. You don't want to make the crate a punishment or negative place. It was your mistake if this only happens when you're not around. Just put the dog in there without the correction.


I just tell her No very strongly. We put her in a sit until she gets control of herself and self calms. Once she does that I put her in her crate. I stay there and give her a once over to make sure she is not injured, then go check on the other dog. By the time I check the other dog out she is fine and I let her out. She likes her crate and goes in it when the door is open. There is no negative associations there. But I fully agree I walked out of the room and was in the kitchen. They found a bone under the couch. I normally pick them all up because of the pup with mega esophagus. But being I have a child there will be times I walk out of the room. I have to trust her enough to do that and I don't. I heard it escalating and walked I to the room calling them off. But she did not listen. That is when it happened. I saw the older one with her head held as high as she could with the bone so the other one could not reach it. So what does she do, she bites the older ones leg, Jenna then dropped the bone and then they started rolling on the floor.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I'd adopt out the younger one if you can. It's really not fair to the older dog to be subject to this every month at her age. Monthly might turn into weekly very quickly.

For now, you really need to keep an eye on them at all times. If you can't watch them, keep them separated.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

Lucy Dog said:


> I'd adopt out the younger one if you can. It's really not fair to the older dog to be subject to this every month at her age. Monthly might turn into weekly very quickly.
> 
> For now, you really need to keep an eye on them at all times. If you can't watch them, keep them separated.


They are being rotated right now and only together when I am in the room for short time periods just to keep them on friendly terms. But she knows something is up. The others are outside right now and she keeps pointing and motioning to the older ones pillow wanting to know where she is. She does enjoy other dogs. Perhaps her best placement would be with another male GS closer in age.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

JennaMae said:


> Did you read the entire post? I believe females can live together because I have females who do. I have one female who will fight with one dog. I clearly define who is top dog in my house. It me first, then the 8 year old. All the dogs respect this but Stella. Jenna the 8 year old is also 75lbs to Stella's 55lbs. Jenna gives a warning growl or bark and the other dogs know to leave her. Stella looks at it as an invitation to come closer.


Yes, I did read the entire post. A couple of times. As stated in my reply, I wasn't sure what information you were looking for. You hadn't had any replies and you seemed sincere in needing some advice. Therefore, I bumped your post by asking you to be a little more clear - and maybe someone would be able to provide you with useful information. 

I myself have had several females (intact and not) in my household with out any problems. Therefore, I couldn't be of help to you.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

Lilie said:


> Yes, I did read the entire post. A couple of times. As stated in my reply, I wasn't sure what information you were looking for. You hadn't had any replies and you seemed sincere in needing some advice. Therefore, I bumped your post by asking you to be a little more clear - and maybe someone would be able to provide you with useful information.
> 
> I myself have had several females (intact and not) in my household with out any problems. Therefore, I couldn't be of help to you.


Well thanks for responding regardless!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

JennaMae said:


> Did you read the entire post? I believe females can live together because I have females who do.


I don't think anyone has ever said that females can _never_ live peacefully together, just that the chance of a problem is much greater than with multiple males or a male/female household. Problems like the kind that you're starting to see, BTW. Even if it's just 2 of your dogs and the other 4 get along fine, that doesn't mean that "females can live together" as a general rule that people can count on, that just means that some of your females can live together, and some can't. And because it's more likely that there will be issues with multiple females living together, it's generally suggested that people avoid that situation unless they're experienced dog owners who are aware it could become a problem, and are willing to crate and rotate, often for life, if they need to. 

Also, several of your dogs are still young - a 6 month old and two 1 year olds, so you really don't know how everyone will get along once they mature. They could be perfectly fine now, and in a year or two from now want to rip each other's throats out! I sincerely hope that's not the case, but management strategies before tragedy strikes would certainly be prudent. 

I personally don't have any experience with more than one female at a time, and I don't intend to, so I don't have any advice for you. But from everything I've read about here on the board and elsewhere is that once fights start happening they only get worse, they do not get better.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

JennaMae said:


> Did you read the entire post? I believe females can live together because I have females who do. I have one female who will fight with one dog. I clearly define who is top dog in my house. It me first, then the 8 year old. All the dogs respect this but Stella. Jenna the 8 year old is also 75lbs to Stella's 55lbs. Jenna gives a warning growl or bark and the other dogs know to leave her. Stella looks at it as an invitation to come closer.


 
Sounds like you already know enough to address your situation - so it is hard to tell what exactly you are asking of the group?


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

codmaster said:


> Sounds like you already know enough to address your situation - so it is hard to tell what exactly you are asking of the group?


I am really attached to her and it saddens me to place her. But I run a rescue so I have to realize I can't keep them all. I also can not foster if I keep all these dogs. The Shih Tzu's strangely often came with other rescued GSDs and the adopters of the GS did not want them. One is mine the other two were dumped at the shelter with the shepherds. Honestly I am open to rehoming them too! 

I guess what I am looking for is confirmation that I am doing the right thing. I do have one more straw to grasp at, does spaying them make them less driven like she is? I doubt it right? She will be spayed before placed. I have been waiting for her to start growing. She was starving when she came to me and now she he's really filled out and blossomed.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

In my experience, I don't believe that spaying/neutering changes the personality/temperament of a dog (esp. if done once a dog has matured to some degree).


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I read only the first page so, sorry if this has been said, but not only will this NOT get better on its own, when your eight year old bitch passes, you might have more problems with the others. It sounds like your eight year old is the undisputed alpha, and this young bitch is a wannabe alpha. They fight more than true alphas. 

You have a LOT of young bitches, and if you are going to continue to have them all running together, this can become a huge problem once these are all mature bitches. 

You really don't know how this will play out now. Just because it seems like just this one is having an issue doesn't mean that that will always be the case. They are mostly very young, and they might change as they get older.


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

just wait until the 6 month old joins in..


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

angryrainbow said:


> just wait until the 6 month old joins in..


Oh geez..... i hope not. She is pretty submissive. She and the one year old play really together. But I can tell the one year old is still recalling the incident. She comes out looking for the older one with her tail alert and in that prey mode. I correct her behavior verbally and she listens but it does make me worried so I cam keeping them separate now most of the time. I hope to one day being home and keep another shepherd. I guess I should bring home a male huh?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

gsdraven said:


> No, she will not grow out of it. You may have good luck with training and behavior modification so that they get along better but they do not just grow of things like this.
> 
> Also, she is only 1 year old and is not yet physically or emotionally mature and it will likely continue to get worse and there may be more challenging. You need to focus on making sure their relationship is good and without tension. Stop the younger one from guarding and don't put the older one in position to have to (or be allowed to) correct the younger one.


^^^^ This.

We have 4 females. It's taken alot of work with the one to stop the fights. You need to focus on behavior modification and building pack behavior.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

JennaMae said:


> Oh geez..... i hope not. She is pretty submissive. She and the one year old play really together. But I can tell the one year old is still recalling the incident. She comes out looking for the older one with her tail alert and in that prey mode. I correct her behavior verbally and she listens but it does make me worried so I cam keeping them separate now most of the time. I hope to one day being home and keep another shepherd. I guess I should bring home a male huh?



Of course she is submissive now. She is a puppy. She is not going to be a puppy forever. She may never have any desire to fight, and she may. In another home, she may never have any, in yours its less likely because the atmosphere is charged, between the 8 year old and the 1 year old.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

If not already mentioned, you need to be more aware of what the 8 year old is doing. One of your posts sounded like all the blame is on the younger dog, but often (not always) the other dog does something to instigate. They may crowd the young dog, stare, have a certain stance. 
If that is happening, that is when you need to intervene. 
If that is happening, punishing the young dog may be quite counterproductive.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I take it the 8 year old is "yours" and the rest are fosters? Place the younger females....as they get older, so will the 8 year old...and eventually there will be a fight over the dominant position....

SOME females can live together...SOME!!! and IMO it is not that common! I have an imported female who could live with other females fine....as long as they were OK....At one time I did have 3 who could exist pretty well....Kelsey, Kyra and Alice...Kyra (intact) jumped Alice twice - once when she was in heat....Alice submitted...Kyra was punished appropriately and kenneled for a few days - not allowed in the house with the other 3 dogs.... there was no real damage done. But I was always careful and dogs were never loose together without me being present. 

Another female I have is fine with males, but not with other females. She has been with juvenile females, but I always separate them by the time the juvenile comes into heat. I don't know if she would have attacked her daughters and did not want to chance it. 

Luckily, none of the daughters I know seem to have gotten this strong female aggression...One of my criteria in choosing their sires was that I chose males who got along with other males and had no dog aggression at all.

The young female should do fine in another home when healthy...just don't place her in a home with another female.

Lee


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

They are all so different, but I too agree that with our breed, and some of the other breeds here mentioned it is more the exception than the rule for females to get along with no hiccups. 

When Gretta came back to me she was just under six months. I could let her run with her mother or with Joy, no problem, but she got her own kennel, and the others were kenneled singly. I left Hepzibah with her mother until her mother was about a week shy of giving birth. Hepzi is a year now. Hepzi is also ok with Babs, but the last time I let her run with Joy, who will be 4 in July, they were a little more interested in each other that it kind of made me wonder. 

Ninja (4.5) and Heidi (6.5) will eat all comers, save Jenna (7.5), normally. Why? Jenna just seems to be a natural alpha. She isn't looking for a fight, ever. But when Ninja broke out of a crate and charged her, she grabbed her by the muzzle and took her to the ground. Luckily (for Ninja) I was right there and able to save her little butt by getting her into a kennel and then getting Jenna to let go. That was a nice little vet bill. Yay. 

Right now I have a couple of one year olds that share a kennel, and a couple of 10 month olds that share another kennel. This is temporary. I had the new kennels started last spring, but that is meat for another rant thread. 

One year old bitches are not generally out to KILL each other. 

They say that males fight for breeding rights, females fight for breathing rights. Keeping multiple females means you have to stay on your toes all the time. With large dogs, the damage can be heavy and expensive. With little dogs and large dogs, the damage can be fatal -- even if you are right there. Dogs do not have a moral code, at least not that our human brains can understand. They do not, for example see a small dog and think they have an unfair advantage being bigger, so they wouldn't fight with such a little dog -- they aren't built that way. And small dogs do not look at themselves and the big dog and think, "that bitch will EAT me" they just aren't built that way. 

You have young bitches. Spayed or not spayed. Not spayed can make a little difference as pregnancy and heat cycles can increase the hormones and mother-aggression/protectiveness, but overall it really doesn't matter. They do not call us bitches for nothing. 

Dogs have a range of emotions. Those emotions can mirror some of the emotions we humans have. They are not the same. I think they are deeper, stronger, simpler, more raw. Think about it this way, do you have a boy friend or husband? Do you think, if he asked you, could you live with his high school sweet-heart for three year and him until she finishes college? That is kind of what we ask bitches to do. 

Most people do not do multiple bitches because having them all separated into their own kennels is not what we sign up for. Pets should be there in the living room laying up under our feet. This is possible, with some bitches, if one is well established before the second is brought it. Like Jenna and Hepzi. They would be fine living together there is a 7 year age difference and Hepzi is a definite follower, while Jenna is a definite leader. It would work. Babs/Gretta even though they are dam/pup, Gretta will be two in November and Babs 8 in August, so there is a big gap there. But it just isn't the same. I had them out together yesterday and though there was no fighting, I think that might be the end to that. Babs is not a strong leader and Gretta is not as much of a follower. Gretta may want to be ahead of Babsy, and Babsy isn't going to take that sitting down even if she isn't a natural leader. They are more equal than Jenna and Hepzi so the likelihood of fighting is stronger.

Also, we people make it worse by trying to make things fair, or by picking the leader by our own terms and then treating it as such. Bitches are strong, fierce, patient, and sneaky. They will wait for an opportunity and then they will strike fast. You might think all is right in the world, no problems for months, and then you are taking a beloved pet to the vet. No fun at all. I love bitches, they keep me on my toes. But I respect them for the canines they are.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

gagsd said:


> If not already mentioned, you need to be more aware of what the 8 year old is doing. One of your posts sounded like all the blame is on the younger dog, but often (not always) the other dog does something to instigate. They may crowd the young dog, stare, have a certain stance.
> If that is happening, that is when you need to intervene.
> If that is happening, punishing the young dog may be quite counterproductive.


You are right and I have been watching the 8 year old. I noticed she is putting everyone else in check. They walk by her pillow and she gives them a bark and a small lunge towards them which sends them flying away from her. It is not a real lunge but a movement forward that tells them she is boss. But when the one year old comes towards her she stays seated and tall, let's her approach. The young ones body language is tail straight alert and she will kinda tip toe like she may pounce. I tell her no and she stops that body positioning. They sniff each other and I feel it is a charged moment but I am near by and I reward them both for a positive interaction. Let it be brief and end it on an up note. One goes out for some exercise one stays in. We will all go for a walk later together. They all do real well on our walks together. No tension.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

Jax08 said:


> ^^^^ This.
> 
> We have 4 females. It's taken alot of work with the one to stop the fights. You need to focus on behavior modification and building pack behavior.


But how do I do this? I appreciate any suggestions. She gets along great with the other dogs. She is laying sleeping with one of the shih tzu right now at my feet. The puppy I have has mega esophagus and is in her feeding chair sleeping. They all lay around her when she sleeps in her feeding chair.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

JennaMae said:


> I guess what I am looking for is confirmation that I am doing the right thing. I do have one more straw to grasp at, does spaying them make them less driven like she is? I doubt it right? She will be spayed before placed. I have been waiting for her to start growing. She was starving when she came to me and now she he's really filled out and blossomed.


I haven't read through all the messages but from what I've read re-homing the younger dog is the right thing to do. I've had multiple dogs, litter mates and 30+ years of being owned by dogs.  If you have an alpha female getting older it is your job to protect her. I know how hard it is. But your old dog deserves to live out her senior years in a safe loving environment without always having to watch her back or defend her position.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

wolfstraum said:


> I take it the 8 year old is "yours" and the rest are fosters? Place the younger females....as they get older, so will the 8 year old...and eventually there will be a fight over the dominant position....
> 
> SOME females can live together...SOME!!! and IMO it is not that common! I have an imported female who could live with other females fine....as long as they were OK....At one time I did have 3 who could exist pretty well....Kelsey, Kyra and Alice...Kyra (intact) jumped Alice twice - once when she was in heat....Alice submitted...Kyra was punished appropriately and kenneled for a few days - not allowed in the house with the other 3 dogs.... there was no real damage done. But I was always careful and dogs were never loose together without me being present.
> 
> ...


The 1 year old, She does love playing with other dogs. We go to a dog park often and she plays well with everyone. I think a home with a male dog would be great for her. 

The 6 month old puppy has mega esophagus and she will be with me for a bit. We are trying to put weight on her and determine if she is a canidate for surgery. Her radiographs show it is not a clear case. We are not sure it it is a right aortic issue or not. I doubt anyone is going to adopt the puppy any time soon. It takes a special person to take a dog with ME.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Pack Aggression/Same-Sex Aggression is not the same as Dog Aggression. She can play in the dog park with those dogs because they are no threat to her. 

At home she wants to be the Queen Bee and your eight year old is in the way of that. 

I don't like the idea of rehoming a dog with a problem, but you have your eight year old who is really not as adoptable, because she is at that point in life where thing will get more expensive, and its really hard to rehome a dog we've raised for eight years. You're right about the ME pup, it takes a special person to take on the heart ache and expense. 

Sometimes the advice you can give will not be well received no matter what you say, and I could probably not follow it either. I would not want to be in your shoes. 

Depending on your home, maybe you can have some type of separation, some of the girls are kept in the kitchen/living area, and one or two in the bed/bath/porch area; and spend significant time in both areas.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

selzer said:


> They are all so different, but I too agree that with our breed, and some of the other breeds here mentioned it is more the exception than the rule for females to get along with no hiccups.
> 
> When Gretta came back to me she was just under six months. I could let her run with her mother or with Joy, no problem, but she got her own kennel, and the others were kenneled singly. I left Hepzibah with her mother until her mother was about a week shy of giving birth. Hepzi is a year now. Hepzi is also ok with Babs, but the last time I let her run with Joy, who will be 4 in July, they were a little more interested in each other that it kind of made me wonder.
> 
> ...


I love females too. My Jenna sounds like your Jenna she will rarely strike or fight. So I am very surprised by this. I think once Stella is placed in an adoptive home we will have balance again. Most of my females are not spayed because they all had health issues coming to me. All were starving and were to thin. That is mainly why I have females. Out of the 5 only two are spayed. Which reminds me I need to make them all appointments next week most are a healthy weight and age now. I had a neutered male but he passed away last fall he had a tick 6 years ago and 6 years later had some crazy auto immune disease from the tick. I swear he brought balance to this house. He was about 6 when he died.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

shepherdmom said:


> I haven't read through all the messages but from what I've read re-homing the younger dog is the right thing to do. I've had multiple dogs, litter mates and 30+ years of being owned by dogs.  If you have an alpha female getting older it is your job to protect her. I know how hard it is. But your old dog deserves to live out her senior years in a safe loving environment without always having to watch her back or defend her position.


I agree right now she and the young sick one with mega esophagus are my priority.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

selzer said:


> Pack Aggression/Same-Sex Aggression is not the same as Dog Aggression. She can play in the dog park with those dogs because they are no threat to her.
> 
> At home she wants to be the Queen Bee and your eight year old is in the way of that.
> 
> ...


I think Stella, the one year old, needs to be in a home where she can be queen bee. Right now they are separated into groups. There is one female shih tzu name Nora, Stella also likes to harass from time to time so I let that dog (Nora) hang out with Jenna the 8 year old. The puppy loves everyone and vise versa so she gets to go out a lot with both groups. Stella is always rotated with everyone but Jenna right now. Thank god they all sleep half the day away! 

Stella otherwise is well trained with her commands and would make anyone a great pet. But she does need a home who will do more with her perhaps agility or nose work. She is super smart. I think she needs more mental stimulation. When I run her and train her in a day she is happiest. Tired dog = happy dog. But bringing this pup with ME has certainly eaten up the time I can spend with the others.


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## JennaMae (Jun 28, 2008)

So we are out in the yard today. Two of the shih tzu, Jenna the 8 year old and the puppy 6 months. Dutchess the pup is playing rough with one of the shih tzu. The one that is Jenna's favorite. Jenna does not like it so she walks by and checks the puppy like a hockey player to correct her behavior. Puppy yelps and stops playing with the shih tzu like that. Puppy starts it up again a few minutes later but watches for where Jenna is. Jenna approaches and pup stops playing with the small dog like that and starts gingerly licking her head instead. Dog behavior is just fascinating. Jenna walks up and does the play bow to puppy, puppy bows back accepting the invitation, the two of them run off and rough house together. Stella the one year old had her outside time today. She had playtime and training time. I need to learn more about pack behavior is there a section on that in this forum? My packs have always been so balanced. This is the first time I have ever dealt with this. Thanks in advanced.


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