# Tail position as a disqualifying trait



## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

I read this online today and wanted to know what others thought. The discussion listed the correct tail position and length for a German Shepherd, as well as what is incorrect (short, long, too low or high, corkscrew, gay tail, etc.). It ended with a thought that since tail position is so difficult to breed out, it should automatically be a disqualifying trait in a dog for breeding. 

What do you all think? And for those who know better than me, is it really that difficult to breed out? Or in?


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I’m not a breeder, just an owner but in my opinion, no, it shouldn’t be a breeding disqualifier. Should it be a considering factor sure but not disqualified Unless it is grossly incorrect.

GSDs are somewhat prone to anal fistulas and there is an unproven theory that due to how low the base is and how tightly the tail lies over the anus, the restricted air flow may be conducive to that issue. At least that’s what I read years ago. 

my previous boy’s tail was so tight against the anus that I worried about that. My new guy‘s position isnt perfect but allows for more air flow.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I am not real bright but what I know of a dogs anatomy is that the tail is an extension of the spine, so defects in tail set, shape or length could impact the dogs spinal column and play into impairing athleticism and agility.
I also know that the tail is full of thinly protected nerves and blood vessels which again could impact the dogs over all health.
If you study different breeds and how they move you will probably find a correlation in correct tail set, shape and length and how the dog naturally moves. For example a Lab uses it's tail as a rudder in the water so the tail is by nature designed to meet that need. The shape, thickness and set of the tail work perfectly in a swimming dog.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

For utility purposes, the husky sickle tail is a good example of that. It keeps it away from the snow and makes it the perfect shape to curl around their head while sleeping. 

Not including weak tails or tails that could result in heath problems (way overlong, too low set, etc) The most common faulty tail trait I've seen in my limited experience in German Shepherda is tail curling past the horizontal line of their spine when aroused. The discussion stated that this was a fault that could disqualify. But as long is it is a strong tail and the rest of the dog is balanced and strong, I can't understand why they'd want to remove the dog from breeding. From what I've read on this forum it's better not to throw out the baby with the bath water. But then again it does make sense to avoid it if it's hard to breed back out.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SV Breed standard...



> The tail extends at least to the hock, but not beyond the middle of the hind pastern. It has slightly longer hair on the underside and is carried hanging downward in a gentle curve, whereby in a state of excitement and in motion it is raised and carried higher, but not beyond the horizontal. Operative corrections are forbidden."
> 
> .....
> *Eliminating faults*
> ...



As you can see - this is already part of the SV standard. The problem with allowing conformation imperfections dictate breeding is then we will have a breed that can't work and further limit the gene pool. I feel that the SV is a better conformation tool than AKC. A judge in an SV style show would certainly rate the dog in a lower category, depending on the severity of the fault, and a breeder could use that information in breeding choices. SV gives each dog a rating and a critique. From the rating, you then earn a title and earn a breed survey which has a conformation and a working portion.

There are much bigger issues in our breed than a tail that is held higher. I actually have never seen this particular issue so I don't think it's common in working lines.

ETA: sorry. didn't have all my coffee yet. Added more of the SV standard.


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## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> SV Breed standard...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha to the coffee statement. I can relate 😂

Yeah generally speaking the standard is there for a reason and the breeder should strive to never deviate from it. If they didn't stick with it, then the German Shepherd wouldn't be a German Shepherd anymore. I tend towards thinking the SV is the standard since they were the original standard. 

As for the tail, the examples I saw were when the dog was in an excited state. Now granted I'm still brand new on all of this so what I thought may be a fault, might be acceptable. I chickened out in asking at the moment. Especially since most people don't do well if you ask if a specific thing is considered "within standard" 😅


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

They call it a "gay tail". Some curl it right up when excited and it lays normal when they aren't. I think the incidence of it is pretty small and some of those people putting a high importance to it have no idea what drive is supposed to be. But...again...its already a disqualifying fault if it's severe. Maybe they don't know that.


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