# What training certificates does your dog have.



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

With over 2000 members, I wonder what percentage of the membership have reached the level of training where their dog has taken a one-time test for obedience and or temperament -- not instinct only.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

We've got the STAR puppy rating and the CGC. Not sure if the STAR puppy is a certificate though


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## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

I voted no, but I plan to get a certificate for at least cgc, maybe tracking and obedience.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Wow, I forgot about the Star Puppy. Mine was not a single test, but in the course of the weeks in classes we did quite a bit with puppies. Puppies of an age where they would not be likely to be as shy. Not an adult evaluation, but still good.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Ours came after the 6 wk course, but it was an actual 'test'.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I'd like to do the TDI and TT but can never seem to find any in our area


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Yes, Kenya is CGC (multiple times, and used as the tester dog), TDI, West MI Therapy cert, and TT. Coke is 2x CGC. Nikon is STAR, CGC, BH, FO. Will do more TTs as soon as I can find them. Pan is only 3 months but will have his STAR next week. The first three dogs also have other titles beyond basic obedience/temperament.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Argos, Anka, and Ike all have their BHs and are all TC by GSDCA. Argos, Anka, and Cade have their CGC's. Cade is getting ready for his BH, and he wasn't old enough when they did the TC's in our area- when they have another one I will take him and hopefully Tag will be old enough at that point too. I really ought to go get a CGC on Ike, just haven't gotten around to it. Tag went through the STAR puppy course also.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Moses has his CGC. I haven't bothered to test the rest of my pack. I train them all and they all have equal manners and I personally don't need the piece of paper or title to tell me my dogs are good citizens.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Selzer the only problem with this poll is you may not have many people (like me) who are willing to say they have not done any temperament testing.


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

I marked no but we are in Schuzhund. Planing on getting my BH then AD. Then if we get that far SchH 1 and 2 ..... Maybe 3!!!!


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

We completed the STAR puppy and she passed her CGC.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Good_Karma said:


> Selzer the only problem with this poll is you may not have many people (like me) who are willing to say they have not done any temperament testing.


That is ok, thank you for responding. The way I look at it, is that people do not need to actually say anything, just vote. If there are 2000 members and 23 members have voted that they have such a certificate, that is a pretty sad turn out. Maybe I am just a little too optimistic.

I am not asking if every single one of your sheps has one, just that you have gotten one of them through one of these programs. 

I would think that a goal for a site such as this one should be to encourage the membership to go for one of these. People on here have a lot to say about training. I think that if I think that only one out of 100 people on here have even the most basic of temperament tests on their dogs, then well, that puts into perspective a lot of the advice on the training threads. 

My guess is that we are a whole lot better than 1 in 100.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

I put CGCs on my 3 males (2 Labs, 1 Dutch Shepherd). I plan on making Madix go through it again when he's fully mature (around 3 yrs I think). I also plan on having him take the Temperament Test next year. We are in training for Schutzhund so I'm hoping to get a BH and AD on him next year with any luck! Perhaps a CD. I also train for several other performance sports that we'll hopefully be tested in next year as well.


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

All three of my GSDs have their BH.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I dont have any titles on Sinister, but I want to get his CGC, do some agility and possibly search work.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jax has her CGC. She took and passed the TDI test but I chose not to follow through and join since she just really doesn't care about people. And to be quite honest, in my opinion she should have failed the TDI because she was being a complete bonehead outside the testing area to other dogs.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

As far as temperament tests/basic training certs go all of our dogs except the puppies have their CGC. Even Nara the Nervebag. Will get them on the 2 pups at some point in the future too. 

Kaiser also has his TDI therapy cert. 

Kaiser, Raven, Wulf and Della all have BHs. 

Raven, Wulf and Della also have SDA FO (Family Obedience.. similar to the BH) and ATTS temperament test certs. 

Really want to do GSDCA TCs (mainly for CHIC numbers), but there are never any tests in the state and we're not really willing to travel just for that. Too bad CHIC doesn't recognize the TT, which is essentially the same thing.

And all except the pups and Nara have a slew of more advanced training titles as well.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Rocky has his CGC but is way too nervy to get anything else. He's a nervous good citizen lol. Cash had a CGC and we were training in agility but never got to do any trials.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Mine are listed with my dogs below. I take obed classes with the dogs, but not specific cgc classes


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

I dont' know if this counts but my border collie has his CD GN RN and CGC, so far. 
I plan on doing at least that much and hopefully alot more with Frank he's in training now.


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## BUBBAGSD (Jul 16, 2010)

In our house we have many cd's,cdx's , TT's, CGN's, CGC's, TEC's


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## Bullet (Dec 14, 2000)

All of my dogs do SchH work, so the BH is the preferred tempermant test. Over the years, my wife & I have supported some of the local non-SchH clubs and did a few CGC's.

Al Govednik


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

18,411 members and 46 members have put a basic skills/temperament certificate on their dog. 

I am really shocked and disappointed. 

No not everyone is interested in polls. 46?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

selzer said:


> 18,411 members and 46 members have put a basic skills/temperament certificate on their dog.
> 
> I am really shocked and disappointed.
> 
> No not everyone is interested in polls. 46?


Some people have puppies that are not old enough to be titled. 

Some people have plans on titling their dogs when they have the extra time and money.


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## trapper66 (Nov 16, 2010)

what are all these certificates? CGC, TDI?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Canine Good Citizen, CGC
Therapy Dog International, TDI
Canine Good Neighbor, CGN
Temperament Test, TT
Bundhund, BH

Mostly these are a certificate. You can take the test one time with one evaluator, and get a certificate. Some are taken with preparation, that require basic commands, like sit, stay, heel, come, down, as well as tests for reaction to other dog, petting, grooming, audio visual distractions and supervised separation -- that is just about the whole of the CGC. CGN is the Canadian version and it is a little different. TDI has a few more distractions, specifically with wheel chairs etc, so that the dog is unlikely to freak out in a medical setting.

TT is simply a temperament test, no training necessary, dog walks on different surfaces, hears a gun shot, basic things to ensure that the dog is not a total nut job. 

BH is usually the starting point for people getting into schutzhund. It is similar to the other tests.


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## Guardyan (Aug 29, 2005)

Here are a few links for anyone who might be interested in taking a temp test with their GSD. 

CGC
AKC's Canine Good Citizen (CGC) Program

TDI
Therapy Dogs

TT
ATTS - American Temperament Test Society, Inc. - Home

BH
German Shepherd Dog Club of America-Working Dog Association | German Shepherd Dog : Serving & Protecting Mankind
United Schutzhund Clubs of America - For the German Shepherd Dog


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LaRen616 said:


> Some people have puppies that are not old enough to be titled.
> 
> Some people have plans on titling their dogs when they have the extra time and money.


No age limit on CGC. I saw a four month old puppy pass it. I do not think that is indicative of adult behavior, so the dog should probably take it again, but whatever. 

The test usually costs between ten and twenty dollars. Not the end of the world expensive. A title leg will cost you 22 to 30+ and you need three to get a title. Training is just a given. If you do not have the money or time to train your dog, then you should not have a dog. 

The tests are not that important, but they are good experience and a goal to shoot for. Also some insurance companies do give them weight. 

For me, taking training advice from people on the forum makes me question this when we do not know if someone has a dog that needs to be muzzled at the vet, or a dog that has completed their UD. Which person would you take advice from? 

It seems like there are TONS of experts. I am just surprised at the number, and there is really no way to know how many people have gone this far. But it would be interesting. 

I would think for 18 thousand members of a working/herding breed, the numbers of people with dogs that have titles or certificates would be in the thousands.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Good_Karma said:


> Selzer the only problem with this poll is you may not have many people (like me) who are willing to say they have not done any temperament testing.


I'm willing to say it. Why would people be reluctant?


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

selzer said:


> No age limit on CGC. I saw a four month old puppy pass it. I do not think that is indicative of adult behavior, so the dog should probably take it again, but whatever.
> 
> The test usually costs between ten and twenty dollars. Not the end of the world expensive. A title leg will cost you 22 to 30+ and you need three to get a title. Training is just a given. If you do not have the money or time to train your dog, then you should not have a dog.
> 
> ...


I think this is related to what I'm trying to say on the other thread...most dog owners aren't interested in titles and certificates. They don't understand what they are or how they relate to a family pet.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have only owned two dogs that weren't titled in some way. The SchH titles require a BH and are also a temperament test.

Apollo CD
Tara BH CD
Treue SchH3 BH CGC
Nike SchH1 OB1
Vala SchH3 AWD1 CGC 

I am a CGC evaluator and for some reason I never seem to get my own dogs done.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Lisa,
Do you find many GSDs failing a CGC?? just curious....


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

robinhuerta said:


> Lisa,
> Do you find many GSDs failing a CGC?? just curious....


I don't even know what's involved in a CGC, but I'm pretty sure Shasta would fail any test at this point.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Paula....why would she? why do you think so?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have actually never had to do a GSD in a CGC. The only dog I have had to fail so far has been an English Cocker that wanted to eat me when I went to touch her feet.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

robinhuerta said:


> Paula....why would she? why do you think so?


Um...she is very exuberant. Sweet and friendly as all get out, but still very, very rambunctious and highly distractable. She is my sweet little (big) work in progress!


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I have a CGC on Yoko...did the TDI at the same time(it is only one more step in the process). She also has her CD and one leg on her CDX.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

IME with testing, GSDs biggest issue with CGC is the supervised separation. Most need quite a bit of training before they are ok with the idea of their person giving to to someone else and walking out of the room. My own GSDs had this issue too. It took me 8 weeks of work in class to get Jora to accept being left without her becoming super excited as soon as she saw me coming back. She's a super smart dog and has a great temperament - she just wants to be with me  I sort of wish they could work out a better way of doing that test, as a lot of dogs who are fine with being left at home, in the car or confined at shows/vet's offices/groomer's are not ok with their owner handing them off to someone and walking away. 

The first CGC test I ever watched, the separation was a 5 minute out of sit or down


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## Guardyan (Aug 29, 2005)

As an evaluator, I've tested dogs that didn't pass supervised separation due to obvious distress while away from the owner. I've tested dogs that had issues with the reaction to another dog (lunging and dragging the owner, yikes). I've also tested dogs that were touchy about their feet, as well as dogs that wouldn't lie down on a concrete floor. I've also seen dogs not pass because they had accidents indoors. (Always a good idea to potty your dog before the test!) 

These incidents are the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of dogs that participate in Canine Good Citizen testing seem to pass with flying colors. 

I think this is a really cool topic as I've seen lots of people get involved in dog training after their success with CGC. It's a really good starting point.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Wouldn't it be cool if we were more than just a message board where people could get advice. 

I am pretty much anal about people training their dogs. If someone takes a puppy home, and has a plan to keep that dog in training until it passes its CGC, chances are that puppy will never go to a shelter and never need to be rehomed. (Notice I said chances are -- there are always exceptions.)

If we could as a board encourage our membership to go and train, get either a BH or a CGC or a CGN on their dogs. What percentage would then take their dogs to the next level and the next?

This is a great place to vent, and a great place to get info about a veterinary procedure or problem. It is even a good place to stay up to date about dog food. But training is so important. People who do, often get title after title, schutzhund 1, 2, 3; agility titles, cd, cdx, rae. But until you get out there and DO it, it seems like some huge scarey deal. 

How often in the behavior and training threads do we say, go to a professional, we cannot determine with out seeing the behavior, etc. Getting into classes gives people real people, trainers, and such, hands on help for their issues, and advice from people who see what handlers do not -- what they are telling their dogs through body language. 

People who take training classes, and go for another set, usually are in the right place to hear about CGCs. 

The CGC is a test of ten basic skills or reactions. If you go for CGC classes, you will practice each of the ten tests and find out where you need help. 

The first test is really easy, someone walks up to you, and says hello. Your dog sits or stands at your side and does not launch itself on the person. PASS. 

Test two, a person comes up and asks if they can pet your dog. Most evaluators will start under the chin and work up along the face to the top of the head. Dog does not shy away, allows petting, does not eat the instructor. PASS. 

Test three, grooming and appearance. The evaluator takes your brush and brushes lightly on the back, lifts each front paw and touches each ear. Handler may hold dogs muzzle lightly. Dog may not eat evaluator. PASS.

Test four, handler tells dog to sit, it sits, tells dog to down, it downs. tells dog to stay and walks out 20 feet and immediately returns, dog stays. tells dog to stay or wait, walks out ten feet and tells dog to come, dog comes. PASS. 

Test five is reaction to another dog, two handlers and their dog walk toward each other dogs on the outside, stop exchange pleasantries, and move on. Dogs do not eat, lunge at, pull into the other dog. PASS

Test six is walking on lead. This is loose lead walking, not strict heeling. Dog walks along without dragging owner. PASS

Test seven is walking in a crowd. A crowd of three or more people will mill around and handler walks dog amongst them. Does not eat people, or jump on them. PASS.

Test eight is reaction to distraction. A metal bowl is dropped, dog does not go through the roof. A person jogs by, dog does not turn into the tasmanian devil. PASS.

Test nine -- probably part of test four. maybe recall, cannot remember for sure, nothing hideous. 

Test ten is supervised separation. Hand your dog off and leave the room for three minutes. Dog does not pull the arm of the person handling it out of the socket. Does not eat anyone. Does not whine the entire time and lose their mind. PASS.

It is not difficult, but it can take training, and some dogs may have difficulty with some of the tests, but having passed it, you are in great shape to go farther. It builds a bond between the owner and the dog.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

selzer said:


> Wouldn't it be cool if we were more than just a message board where people could get advice.
> 
> I am pretty much anal about people training their dogs. If someone takes a puppy home, and has a plan to keep that dog in training until it passes its CGC, chances are that puppy will never go to a shelter and never need to be rehomed. (Notice I said chances are -- there are always exceptions.)
> 
> ...


:thumbup:

So true. I remember how thrilled we were with our first CGC. Now, I think DH and I could slap a BH on just about anything now that we've done it a couple times. It really is the unknown that's the hardest! Get out and train people!!


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

selzer said:


> Wouldn't it be cool if we were more than just a message board where people could get advice.
> 
> I am pretty much anal about people training their dogs. If someone takes a puppy home, and has a plan to keep that dog in training until it passes its CGC, chances are that puppy will never go to a shelter and never need to be rehomed. (Notice I said chances are -- there are always exceptions.)
> 
> ...


What would be cool is if someone who knows about all the titles would do a glossary for the rest of us. Or better, something like a wiki that explained what each event is (i.e. conformation, schutzhund, etc.), what goes on at a trial/show, how points are awarded, how titles are earned and so on. 

Or if no one is willing to take that on, it would also be extremely helpful if people would try to forgo using so many abbreviations in their posts about titles and such. I tend to avoid even looking at anything having to do with shows, trials and titles because I feel stupid always having to ask, "what is this" or "what is that."


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Guardyan said:


> Here are a few links for anyone who might be interested in taking a temp test with their GSD.
> 
> CGC
> AKC's Canine Good Citizen (CGC) Program
> ...


Guardian's post is a good place to start. 

CGC and TDI, and CD, and CDX etc, are a lot easier for me than some of the common cell phone text slang that seems to be everywhere, and acronyms that are not commonly known, like Smh. What does that mean. Someone suggested Shaking My Head. Ok, but Smh for a whole post could have been just about anything, like So Much Huey. 

People in dog circles should be familiar with CGC at least. 

Being familiar with Rally titles is easy. Rally Novice, RN; Rally Advanced, RA; Rally Excellent, RE; ten times qualifying in both RA and RE on the same day -- RAE. Herding alphabet soup, and Agility titles -- that is just crazy, and only someone deep into it would be able to remember all the varieties.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Oh and obedience. Novice Obedience is your CD or companion dog title. 
Open Obedience is your CDX or companion dog excellent.
UD is your Utility dog title. 
and UDX are for people with serious masochistic tendencies, ten times qualifying at the same show in both open and utility. 

Confused yet?

I think they make it confusing deliberately. Another reason to go for rally, much more straight forward. But then, they are mixing it up this year. The very idea that the little letters match the class, it is too much to bear!!!


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## Guardyan (Aug 29, 2005)

I added a glossary to our site a few years ago . . . I'm sure it's not all-inclusive, but it might have some helpful info. German Shepherd Glossary


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

selzer said:


> Oh and obedience. Novice Obedience is your CD or companion dog title.
> Open Obedience is your CDX or companion dog excellent.
> UD is your Utility dog title.
> and UDX are for people with serious masochistic tendencies, ten times qualifying at the same show in both open and utility.
> ...


It is confusing. I know it's silly, but the confusing terminology in itself is a stumbling block. No one likes to get involved in something that makes them feel like an idiot.

"Rally" may be easy, but only if you understand what Rally is. I'll admit, I don't get the point of that event.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is kind of like when Hagrid said about wizard money: 17 knuts to a sickle, 11 sickles to a gallion, its easy" or something like that....


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

selzer said:


> It is kind of like when Hagrid said about wizard money: 17 knuts to a sickle, 11 sickles to a gallion, its easy" or something like that....


LOL, yes, exactly!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

paulag1955 said:


> It is confusing. I know it's silly, but the confusing terminology in itself is a stumbling block. No one likes to get involved in something that makes them feel like an idiot.
> 
> "Rally" may be easy, but only if you understand what Rally is. I'll admit, I don't get the point of that event.


Rally obedience is awesome. 

It is really teaching you to heel with your dog. The majority of the signs can be done by someone who heels properly, and in training heeling doodles regularly. 

What is doodling? Doodling is taking a strange path, walking a few feet turning and stopping, dog sits. Turning in a 270 walking three paces and making a right turn and stopping. It just gets the dog to focus on you on what you are doing. The dog follows you and the rest is easy. 

There are jumps and stands and downs, walk around the dog, etc, but the vast majority is just heeling. No jumping in novice. 

They set out a course and you follow the numbered signs following the instructions on each sign. Dog follows you, and does what they are asked. 

It is not easy in that the dogs do have to know how to perform a variety of stations, and you have no idea what will be thrown at you on the day of the show. But it is easy if you have trained the dog to heel, to sit, to down, to stay, to finish, and to come front. 

Once a dog is titled in Rally, I think it is a milestone in having the dog focus on you and walking nicely on a lead, just about anywhere. Better yet, it is fun, it is relaxed, and it improves the bond between dog and handler.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Rally was originally supposed to bridge the gap between CGC level obedience, and Obedience or Agility. An entry way into AKC performance Events. I see it the other way too, obedience champions coming to Rally and having fun there as well.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

selzer said:


> Once a dog is titled in Rally, I think it is a milestone in having the dog focus on you and walking nicely on a lead, just about anywhere. Better yet, it is fun, it is relaxed, and it improves the bond between dog and handler.


I long for the day Shasta walks nicely on a lead without constant reminders via the prong collar that I am alive.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Paula, I was all new to these titles and abbreviations too at one point, but I didn't allow it to make me feel like I knew nothing. If I learned about ONE event, and one abbreviation, I was that much ahead than before. 

Here are the abbreviations that I have on my dogs. I train in Schutzhund with them. You probably are familiar with SchH I, SchH II, and SchHII, the three levels of Schutzhund. To get a Schutzhund title, a dog must, in one day, complete and pass events in all three phases: Tracking, Obedience, and Protection. If the dog fails any one of the phases, no title is awarded, and the dog must attempt all three phases again at a different trial, and pass all three, in order to get a SchH title. 

A dog can also enter and earn titles in the individual phases only. Keeta, in my signature, has an Obedience 1, (OB1) which is the obedience phase only of a SchH 1 requirement, and a Tracking 1, wich is the tracking phase only of the SchH 1. If I want to get a full SchH title on her, I would have to enter a trial for SchH1, and do all three phases again in one day, and pass all three in order to earn a full SchH title. 

The BH is a prerequisite for all SchH titles, full titles and partial phase titles. There are two parts to it: an obedience routine, and a traffic sureness/temperament test. In the obedience routine, there is a LOT of heeling, on and off leash. Healing through distractions like a group of people. Obedience exercises like changes of pace, sits and downs out of motion, recall, and so on. Also a long down, with the handler at a distance (30 paces away). This is done in a big open field. The exercises are pass/fail. 

For the temperament test we take the dogs off to a busy area. With Keeta we drove out to a busy gas station/convenience store on the highway, with Gryffon we went and did the exercises in front of the airport terminal building. The exercises are a bit like the CGC that Selzer described. Loose leash walking around crowds, the dog not reacting to people approaching and shaking hands, patting you on the back, talking loudly and gesticulating. Not reacting to joggers going by, someone riding by on a bicycle and ringing the bell (yes, it's in the rule book, LOL! We have to get a bell for a bike, and someone is assigned to ride up and down rigging the bell when they pass us). The dog is tied up and the handler is out of sight for a few minutes, and dog is to remain calm while people and others with dogs walk by. This temperament part of the BH is also a Pass/Fail test.

So that is the BH. 

The OB1, or the Obedience portion has the same exercises as the obedience portion of the BH, all OFF leash, and has additional exercises like three retrieves (on the flat, over a meter jump, and over a six foot high A-frame), and a send out (dog to run full speed down the field on command, and then DOWN on command). 

TR1: Tracking: 300 paces, 2 turns, 2 articles to indicate. In Schutzhund tracking, the dog MUST track foot-step to foot-step, and lifting the head up to air scent is heavily penalized. 

AD: short for a big-long german word I will not attempt to spell. It is a 20 km (12.5 mile) endurance test. Handler on a bicycle, dog to trot on a loose leash. Team to maintain an average speed of roughly 8 to 10 mph. 

edited to add: Forgot that after the AD, the dogs get a 15 min break, and then have to do a little obedience routine, as directed by the Judge. This is to test the dog to see if they still have the willingness and hardness to keep working for the handler even after such a long run.

So there you go! Just a few abbreviations to get you started!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

AgileGSD said:


> IME with testing, GSDs biggest issue with CGC is the supervised separation. Most need quite a bit of training before they are ok with the idea of their person giving to to someone else and walking out of the room. My own GSDs had this issue too. It took me 8 weeks of work in class to get Jora to accept being left without her becoming super excited as soon as she saw me coming back. She's a super smart dog and has a great temperament - she just wants to be with me  I sort of wish they could work out a better way of doing that test, as a lot of dogs who are fine with being left at home, in the car or confined at shows/vet's offices/groomer's are not ok with their owner handing them off to someone and walking away.
> 
> The first CGC test I ever watched, the separation was a 5 minute out of sit or down


Agree!!!
I think this is the one that should be eliminated from the CGC. Though I know vets have to take your dog if a medical procedure is to be done. 
But what person in their right mind would hand off their dog to a stranger and expect the dog to be ok with that?
I helped a friend with her CGC separation a few weeks back. Her dog knows me from walking together, but we don't have a "relationship". 
We went to tractor supply and owner went into another isle for a few minutes, then we increased the time. He did ok for not knowing me well and in an environment with people coming and going, not to mention the isle we were in. One was equipement, the other was dog toys and treats. He didn't care about the treats, just was "on" looking for his mom to return!
He passed his CGC with flying colors, he is such a nice dog, that was the only part of the test that had his owner a bit worried.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Lucia, thanks so much! That's incredibly helpful!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

onyx'girl said:


> Agree!!!
> I think this is the one that should be eliminated from the CGC. Though I know vets have to take your dog if a medical procedure is to be done.
> But what person in their right mind would hand off their dog to a stranger and expect the dog to be ok with that?
> I helped a friend with her CGC separation a few weeks back. Her dog knows me from walking together, but we don't have a "relationship".
> ...


Well, I was at a show this past weekend, and I wanted to go over and get somthing to eat, and dogs are not allowed in the concession area, so I handed my dog off to a lady from our training class, who the dog does not know, and put the dog on a down stay, and took off for about seven minutes. The dog never moved. 

Later when I was doing the rally walk through, because I kept signing as I was going along, she kept wanting to come to me. And the lady would tell her to sit, and she would. 

I think that it is one of the better exersizes in that it is what most shepherd people have to work on. I would not want them to remove it to make the test easier. Dogs that do fine handed off to groomers or vet techs sometimes do have problems with it. But it is something that can be trained.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would rather crate my dog than have someone I don't know handle him/her.
Especially at a show environment where everything is crowded and close quarters. I'm not saying the dog shouldn't be trained to be handled by someone they don't know, but I'm not comfortable with it. I just am a bit too protective, I guess.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Jora could be held while I walked the course in agility. She'd watch but because I was in view, her frustration level remained pretty manageable. Her main issue with supervised separation was her exuberance when I returned. All this frustration would build in her because I left her during training and walked away. Training is time when she is supposed to be focused on me and working with me. Leaving her is almost like a punishment (actually I have used it quite effectively as a punishment for reactive GSDs but that's a different story...). Barking, leaping, jumping, pulling to get to me when I walked back into view. I was able to train her to lie down when I returned, which is how I got her through the CGC test. She still found it to be frustrating. She finds the wait command to be frustrating too LOL She does it but quivers with anticipation that at any minute, I will ask her to do something else. So exciting!


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Regarding the OP. My dog will get a certificate when I make one up and print it out myself.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

And what will that be PaddyD?


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

AgileGSD said:


> IME with testing, GSDs biggest issue with CGC is the supervised separation. Most need quite a bit of training before they are ok with the idea of their person giving to to someone else and walking out of the room. My own GSDs had this issue too. It took me 8 weeks of work in class to get Jora to accept being left without her becoming super excited as soon as she saw me coming back. She's a super smart dog and has a great temperament - she just wants to be with me  I sort of wish they could work out a better way of doing that test, as a lot of dogs who are fine with being left at home, in the car or confined at shows/vet's offices/groomer's are not ok with their owner handing them off to someone and walking away.
> 
> The first CGC test I ever watched, the separation was a 5 minute out of sit or down


I agree as well. I had a very dog reactive foster that I got to the point of being able to walk through crowds of dogs with no problem. At one event, the CGC evaluator was next to us and didn't bring a dog to test with  so she asked to use Boomer all day. So we helped her test all day and he did wonderfully. I decided to take the test with him and he did great on everything except me handing him over and walking out of sight. So he failed. I just don't get how he can be used as the test dog all day but not be worthy of the certification??

Raven would be ok with the separation because I routinely ask other volunteers that she doesn't know that well to hold her while I help someone or run to the bathroom at events. I just have never scheduled a test for her. Her big problem would be sitting still when there is a perfectly good person there to say hi to her. She is way too friendly for a GSD but I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

At a show a couple of weekends ago we were showing several dogs in several classes. I never saw so much leash passing as they had to wait their turn, go in, and then go in with another handler often the second time. They all withstood being left with someone for a bit very well. One of my worst memories is a show where someone handed me a separation anxious dog. He almost separated my shoulder. 

It is something worth working on as you might have to leave them to attend to something sometime.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The separation has been our hardest part of the CGC for my GSDs but I train it as a down-stay. I actually ask the person they are left with to keep interactions to a minimum and not to give any commands or try to console my dog. When my dogs think of it as an obedience exercise (down-stay) rather than abandonment, they do not seem as bothered by it. Obedience commands are always followed through with a release and reward. I don't generally let others handle my dogs but I'm not totally averse to it either, I guess I'm lucky that I have dogs who are for the most part perfectly fine with it. Nikon might whine and doesn't really respond to anyone else but me but none of the dogs are reactive or prone to having meltdowns in that situation. I do handle my own dogs for shows, but that is because I like to keep the H.O.T. (handler-owner-trained) designation than them being unruly for someone else. Many times I need help with dogs being held because I'm walking the course, meeting the judge, or I have multiple dogs entered back to back. My dog might get fidgety but I have other people hold their leash ringside when running around to crates isn't possible.


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## cindy_s (Jun 14, 2009)

Oh, I just saw the poll. Maybe you got a poor response because not everyone had seen it. Ruger has his CGC and RN. Cues has her BH, and hopefully she'll go to Sch 3. I think any type of training is fantastic to nurture the bond that you have with your dog. I see titles as a goal to help me stay motivated and on course. It's very easy to say, "It's too cold to go to the club today and freeze my but off." But, I'll never reach my goals with that attitude. So freeze my butt off I will. Training has also helped the dogs develop a very confident attitude in any situation. And, I know with Cues, it would be a crime not to work her and train her. All she wants to do is work ie. play!


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## rebelsgirl (May 19, 2005)

Rowdy my rescue has his CGC certificate and Ribbon. I would like to do more temperament testing on him in the future but he's only had 8 weeks beginners OB and will be starting Intermediate OB in January.. so it's something to work towards.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

onyx'girl said:


> I would rather crate my dog than have someone I don't know handle him/her.
> Especially at a show environment where everything is crowded and close quarters. I'm not saying the dog shouldn't be trained to be handled by someone they don't know, but I'm not comfortable with it. I just am a bit too protective, I guess.


I have a group of dogs. Just because my dog does not know someone, does not mean I do not know them. I am sorry, but there are times when you are out that you might need to use the can. Something nobody can do for you. And not always are dogs welcomed in bathrooms. 

People give show lines a rap for having poor temperament, and give show dogs little credit for training, but show dogs can be handed off and handled by more than just their owners often. They have to be in close quarters with people of all sizes and dogs of all varieties. If your dog has a thing for pugs, there will be a passel of them there.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

selzer said:


> I have a group of dogs. Just because my dog does not know someone, does not mean I do not know them. I am sorry, but there are times when you are out that you might need to use the can. Something nobody can do for you. And not always are dogs welcomed in bathrooms.
> 
> People give show lines a rap for having poor temperament, and give show dogs little credit for training, but show dogs can be handed off and handled by more than just their owners often. They have to be in close quarters with people of all sizes and dogs of all varieties. If your dog has a thing for pugs, there will be a passel of them there.


 When I was showing GSDs in conformation, a lot of people encouraged the natural tendency of the dog to want to get back to their owner. That is why doubling is so popular in the GSD ring - as a breed, they tend to want to be with their people. I have seen more than one show dog become quite distraught over their owners leaving them with someone else. I was holding onto someone's show GSD at conformation class once and when she took the other dog around the ring, the dog I was holding hit the end of the leash so hard he flipped himself over. 

It depends on the dog but acceptance of being left with a stranger is a bit of a breed trait. Dogs who don't naturally want to accept such things can be trained to tolerate it but it sometimes takes more training than should be necessary for a "pet obedience" certificate. In theory, the CGC should not require specific training for the test. It should be attainable by any pet dog who has had some basic training and socialization. I'm just not sure it is entirely necessary for a dog to switch from working mode to being abandoned with the owner out of site to be considered a well mannered dog. To some dogs, that is seen as punishment or at least very frustrating.


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## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

All three of my dogs (GSD, Rottie mix, and Sheltie) have thier CGC and are certified therapy dogs. The GSD has 2 Rally titles and her AKC CD. The sheltie has a Rally title, and the Rottie mix should have her AKC CD by March. We love to learn and enter trials!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

It won't let me vote in the poll, but Bianca has passed the CGC and therapy dog tests (a local org. but the test is similar to TDI's.) She also passed evaluation for a humane education group where they have dogs visit schools and things.
I really want to take the ATTS or GSDCA temperament tests but they never seem to be offered in my area.


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## FORRUGER (Jan 3, 2006)

Missed the poll... but mine have the certificates/titles listed with each dog. I love working with my dogs and competing with them... they enjoy it too!!!


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## GSDOWNED (Mar 16, 2010)

I missed the poll too. Mia has her CGC and has been in training for Rally. We hope to get her RN in the Spring or Summer.


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