# CGC help



## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

Karly is taking her CGC test next month. The only problem we are going to have is with the "Supervised Separation" portion of the test. She throws an absolute fit if I walk away. Anyone have any tips on how to get past this? I'm thinking click and treat every time she stops squealing and gradually phasing that out. We have a few weeks to correct this and I'm confident we will work through it.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I teach the a long down stay (built up to 20-30 minutes) out of sight. Then for the supervised separation, just put my dog in a down stay.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

teach her "stay", "sit stay", "down stay". walk a short distance away.
gradually add distance. then start stepping out of sight. hide behind a 
car, a tree, duck behind a fence, etc. in the house step behind a door,
go to another room. slowly add more time to being out of sight.
when i did the out of sight training i use to make noise as an added
distraction. slowly increase your time out of sight.

at some point start training being out of sight with a person
holding Karly.


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## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> teach her "stay", "sit stay", "down stay". walk a short distance away.
> gradually add distance. then start stepping out of sight. hide behind a
> car, a tree, duck behind a fence, etc. in the house step behind a door,
> go to another room. slowly add more time to being out of sight.
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions. She knows all these commands and will do them in the house but she's not yet 100% reliable outside. When we tried it at practice she stayed put but screamed and howled like someone was killing her. Understandably this would be a fail. I work from home so I think overall she just spends too much time with me. Even when I leave the house and the rest of the family is here with her she puts on quit a show when I leave.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

arby665 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. She knows all these commands and will do them in the house but she's not yet 100% reliable outside. When we tried it at practice she stayed put but screamed and howled like someone was killing her. Understandably this would be a fail. I work from home so I think overall she just spends too much time with me. Even when I leave the house and the rest of the family is here with her she puts on quit a show when I leave.


Do you have family or coworkers who could play with her and make it fun for her to spend time with people other than yourself? Especially if they have treats or toys that you don't have, that could help her associate you leaving with getting something special. Sort of like when I was a kid, my mom would get us acclimated to having a babysitter by having the babysitter take us places or feed us things we normally weren't allowed to have.


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## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

Kaimeju said:


> Do you have family or coworkers who could play with her and make it fun for her to spend time with people other than yourself? Especially if they have treats or toys that you don't have, that could help her associate you leaving with getting something special. Sort of like when I was a kid, my mom would get us acclimated to having a babysitter by having the babysitter take us places or feed us things we normally weren't allowed to have.


That's why I was thinking using the clicker and treating when she stops freaking out. I've also started having more crate time. I've gotten into the habit of not using it much because I'm always here and I take her anywhere that allows dogs. She's just not used to not being with me.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i trained indoors and outside. you can train when walking,
when playing in the yard, go somewhere to train, train at
pet store, at the mall, etc.

now acting up when you leave the house with other
family members there, i don't know what to do about that.



arby665 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. She knows all these commands and will do them in the house but she's not yet 100% reliable outside. When we tried it at practice she stayed put but screamed and howled like someone was killing her. Understandably this would be a fail. I work from home so I think overall she just spends too much time with me. Even when I leave the house and the rest of the family is here with her she puts on quit a show when I leave.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

the point was use these commands and work on being out of sight
indoors and outside.



doggiedad said:


> teach her "stay", "sit stay", "down stay". walk a short distance away.
> gradually add distance. then start stepping out of sight. hide behind a
> car, a tree, duck behind a fence, etc. in the house step behind a door,
> go to another room. slowly add more time to being out of sight.
> ...





arby665 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. She knows all these commands and will do them in the house but she's not yet 100% reliable outside. When we tried it at practice she stayed put but screamed and howled like someone was killing her. Understandably this would be a fail. I work from home so I think overall she just spends too much time with me. Even when I leave the house and the rest of the family is here with her she puts on quit a show when I leave.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

mycobraracr said:


> I teach the a long down stay (built up to 20-30 minutes) out of sight. Then for the supervised separation, just put my dog in a down stay.


Does the "stranger" have to be holding the leash? My dog could be in a down stay with me out of sight no problem but if a stranger grabbed his leash they might die.


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## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> the point was use these commands and work on being out of sight
> indoors and outside.


I'm sorry I guess I wasn't clear. She can do this inside when I am out of sight. In our back yard she is not 100% but getting there. With someone else holding her in a strange location she stayed put but screamed about it the entire time. I think I need to work more outside and in strange locations? How much of the show that she put on do you think had to do with the strange person?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

mycobraracr said:


> I teach the a long down stay (built up to 20-30 minutes) out of sight. Then for the supervised separation, just put my dog in a down stay.


Yep, this is what I do. 

Work on your down stay. Two steps away, click/treat/released. Restart, 4 steps away, c/t/r. Restart, 3 steps away, c/t/r. Build up (not progressively making it harder each time) to 10 feet away, then start building duration. Wait two seconds, then 5, then 4, then 8, etc. etc. Add in distractions after this point and make sure you're turning around walking away normally once she's proofed to this point. 

Work in the park, pet stores, etc. for distraction to get her used to the environment she may be in for the test with a lot of distractions and strangers.


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## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

boomer11 said:


> Does the "stranger" have to be holding the leash? My dog could be in a down stay with me out of sight no problem but if a stranger grabbed his leash they might die.


I'm also wondering how much this had to do with Karly's reaction. She is fine with strangers but maybe it has something to do with a stranger having control of her.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

boomer11 said:


> Does the "stranger" have to be holding the leash? My dog could be in a down stay with me out of sight no problem but if a stranger grabbed his leash they might die.


Your dog would become aggressive to someone aka stranger if you handed them the leash and walked away?


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## farnln (Nov 4, 2012)

Hmm? My CGC instructor told us that we could *NOT* use *ANY* command, such as 'stay' for this part of the test.
I had to hand my dog off to a stranger and then walk out of sight, no command at all was allowed. It freaked my dog out!
It was *VERY* difficult for my dog and I don't think she could do it now. We managed to pass the test, but this was the hardest part by far.
If I told her to 'stay' or put her in a sit or down, she would have been ok with it, but again, I was told I couldn't do that.


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

arby665 said:


> Karly is taking her CGC test next month. The only problem we are going to have is with the "Supervised Separation" portion of the test. She throws an absolute fit if I walk away. Anyone have any tips on how to get past this? I'm thinking click and treat every time she stops squealing and gradually phasing that out. We have a few weeks to correct this and I'm confident we will work through it.


Zeus put up a fit. He passed. 

The trainer said that its normal for the breed at a young age and that he is herding me. I like this because i can let him off leash and he stick by me at the beach. This is an old rule when people used to leave dogs outside the store etc.. not even recommended anymore. 

One thing you can do is get your dog SUPER tired before the test!!! 

They only make sure that your dog is not aggressive when u walk away to get to you. I was told that Zeus was upset, gave a good pull. But calmed down and watched in my direction until i was called back inside the building. 

It's up to you if you want to untrain this behavior, but i dont, It's not ok for him to be separated from me in public and I intend to keep it this way. At home and when i leave for work there is no anxiety. 

Good luck!


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

farnln said:


> Hmm? My CGC instructor told us that we could *NOT* use *ANY* command, such as 'stay' for this part of the test.
> I had to hand my dog off to a stranger and then walk out of sight, no command at all was allowed. It freaked my dog out!
> It was *VERY* difficult for my dog and I don't think she could do it now. We managed to pass the test, but this was the hardest part by far.
> If I told her to 'stay' or put her in a sit or down, she would have been ok with it, but again, I was told I couldn't do that.


It sayes right on the guide to use as many commands as the owner wants i still have the form from last month to send in. but the form was recently updated.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Saphire said:


> Your dog would become aggressive to someone aka stranger if you handed them the leash and walked away?


i honestly wouldnt know as i've never given my dog to a stranger before. i wouldnt put it past him to bite a stranger who's restraining him from me. a highly civil shepherd + a stranger is not a good match. i bet there are a bunch of schutzhund dogs that couldnt pass this part of the test and will never be "good citizens"


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

boomer11 said:


> i honestly wouldnt know as i've never given my dog to a stranger before. i wouldnt put it past him to bite a stranger who's restraining him from me. a highly civil shepherd + a stranger is not a good match. i bet there are a bunch of schutzhund dogs that couldnt pass this part of the test and will never be "good citizens"


I know nothing about Schutzhund but I am under the impression these dogs are well trained and don't go into attack mode on their own outside of the field. I could be very wrong and look forward to someone experienced to jump in on this.

I would not be impressed if my dog went into attack mode if I handed off the leash to a stranger. In fact, I have done so when doing master tracks. I could be in the field with him and get injured myself and have no choice but to hand him over and certainly would expect him to be upset but not to the point of attacking.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

I trained my dog to stay. When I walked away I told him the command.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

boomer11 said:


> i honestly wouldnt know as i've never given my dog to a stranger before. i wouldnt put it past him to bite a stranger who's restraining him from me. a highly civil shepherd + a stranger is not a good match. i bet there are a bunch of schutzhund dogs that couldnt pass this part of the test and will never be "good citizens"


Maybe not, he may be just fine, especially away from your home where your bite occurred (if that was a factor in that incident?) At my wife's club, people hand their dogs off to others to run back to their car, restroom break etc... and while some dogs are familiar with others, some are not, never had an issue. The CGC evaluator just holds the leash and doesn't really interact with the dog at all.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

farnln said:


> Hmm? My CGC instructor told us that we could *NOT* use *ANY* command, such as 'stay' for this part of the test.
> I had to hand my dog off to a stranger and then walk out of sight, no command at all was allowed. It freaked my dog out!
> It was *VERY* difficult for my dog and I don't think she could do it now. We managed to pass the test, but this was the hardest part by far.
> If I told her to 'stay' or put her in a sit or down, she would have been ok with it, but again, I was told I couldn't do that.


Sounds like you had a bad instructor. That's not how it is supposed to work. :/


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