# How does our wgsl compare to working lines?



## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

We are currently the parents of a beautiful 8 month old wgsl puppy that is the light of our lives. Unfortunatly she will not be with us for very long due to her health. She is our first, and we have no idea when or if we will ever be ready for another dog. That being said, if we do decide to try again, I was wondering how her traits compare to the wgwl. 

Cannoli has lots of energy. She goes on an hour to hour and a half walk everyday (although right now it is difficult due to the heat). Two or three times a week we take her out to a farm where she can run and play off leash with us. Then two or 3 times a week, depending, we take her to the park on the longline to play. We also play with her inside and enrolled her in weekly agility training just to challenge her. Cannoli is able to settle down in the apartment but if she gets antsy we just take her for another walk or to the park. Once she was fully developed we were considering a doggy treadmill and I was hoping eventually she might jog with me. 

Cannoli is very friendly and social. She loves people and she loves dogs. 

Lots of play biting. I am covered in bruises. She loves to play rough. Still working on the biting. 

Cannoli shows affection but is pretty rough about it lol. She is not really a cuddle bug and is pretty independent. She likes her space. She also has a high prey drive which is pretty fun at the park. I love her enthusiasm. 

Where Cannoli lacks is focus. This is likely our fault but since getting a balanced trainer she has improved immensely. She is also fearful of bubbles and tiny bear statues. 


As I said. I don't know when or if we will be ready for another dog. I am just curious about how a working line would compare. My biggest fear is getting a dog we can't handle or can't provide the enrichment for. If we are ever ready for a new puppy, I am curious is our experience at this point would still be better suited to a showline. 

Thank you so much! 

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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

What kind of health issues ?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

gsdsteve said:


> What kind of health issues ?











Kidney Disease Puppy


Hello. Today our vet said that our 8 month old puppy has one functioning kidney and one that didn't develop properly. Renal dysplasia, third stage kidney disease. Our vet said she may not live to her second birthday, could be sooner. My husband was at the appointment while I was at work so I am...




www.germanshepherds.com


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

gsdsteve said:


> What kind of health issues ?


One kidney didn't really develope and we learned the other is small. Originally I hoped her other kidney could take over for both but no such luck. She is on a special diet now. The vet said she has maybe a year. I wrote a post about it a few days ago that is quoted above, but since that post we learned her other kidney is small. 

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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Honestly, I had read endlessly about the differences between showlines and working lines, but I didn’t truly understand then. The only way I think anyone can truly comprehend the difference is to watch both show lines and working lines in action. Not on video, but real life. I’ve seen amazing showlines, and they pale in comparison to the working lines on the field. It was eye opening. The first time I assumed it was just a really good dog, but I trained with a different club that was full of working lines and blown away. I will tell you I believe you can find showlines that can go, and it’s impressive when you see it, but they aren’t even close to working lines. It’s not necessarily energy levels that struck me, but dogs that would go until they couldn’t.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> Honestly, I had read endlessly about the differences between showlines and working lines, but I didn’t truly understand then. The only way I think anyone can truly comprehend the difference is to watch both show lines and working lines in action. Not on video, but real life. I’ve seen amazing showlines, and they pale in comparison to the working lines on the field. It was eye opening. The first time I assumed it was just a really good dog, but I trained with a different club that was full of working lines and blown away. I will tell you I believe you can find showlines that can go, and it’s impressive when you see it, but they aren’t even close to working lines. It’s not necessarily energy levels that struck me, but dogs that would go until they couldn’t.


Sounds like we got to find a club  I love watching the YouTube videos but I would love to watch them go in person. Would a working dog be happy doing sport as more of a hobby to blow off steam? We haven't really gotten off the ground with agility because Cannoli was behind on focus. 

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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

OldGreg said:


> Sounds like we got to find a club  I love watching the YouTube videos but I would love to watch them go in person. Would a working dog be happy doing sport as more of a hobby to blow off steam? We haven't really gotten off the ground with agility because Cannoli was behind on focus.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727A using Tapatalk


Maybe not most, but I think a lot people that do sports with their dogs do it as a hobby. There’s different drives and energy levels obviously. I’m not saying every working line is a twitchy maniac. You can do fine as a hobby. The biggest key is consistent exercise and stimulation. If you shorten that walk to 30 minutes and replace the rest of it with play like fetch, tug of war, or some some training even with play as a reward I think you can be pretty successful. I’m not trying to sway you one way or the other but you can infer which ones I like based on the dogs I have.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Training for a sport like igp can really help with focus since you want you’re dog in drive and excited most of the time.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> Training for a sport like igp can really help with focus since you want you’re dog in drive and excited most of the time.


I shall def look into that. Cannoli doesnt have the right temperment but if we bring home another puppy someday I am interested in learning. Before we brought home Cannoli I was intimidated by igp because I worried it would be dangerous but it looks like with the right training and dog it would be very rewarding. 

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## Shadow Shep (Apr 16, 2020)

What do you mean by she doesn't have the right temperament? Do you mean like she's too friendly?


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

OldGreg said:


> I shall def look into that. Cannoli doesnt have the right temperment but if we bring home another puppy someday I am interested in learning. Before we brought home Cannoli I was intimidated by igp because I worried it would be dangerous but it looks like with the right training and dog it would be very rewarding.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727A using Tapatalk


Like you see said go see some clubs, see some dogs meet some people. You may see working lines in action and fall in love or decide they aren’t what you want. Meet the people and see if you like hanging out with them. Kind of like work, you don’t need to like the people you train with but it makes it way easier and way more fun. Then if you decide you want to do it, and you have found a good club, you can find a dog that works for you. If you are already apart of a club, especially one with a good reputation, it makes getting the dog easier.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

Shadow Shep said:


> What do you mean by she doesn't have the right temperament? Do you mean like she's too friendly?


Yes and lacks focus. Our trainer said she is more suited (if she can focus better and she is) to agility or I think nose work. That is something that worries me though, I like her friendliness and if working lines are aggresive then I worry we are not experienced enough to handle that. Of course, i know when properly handled a working line should know not to be aggressive innapropietly but I worry about getting a dog that is too much and we can't handle it. Cannoli has been a challenge but in a good way. Mostly we just want a pet but we see sports as a fun thing for them to do as enrichment. I was not sure if ipo was something that we need to be very heavily involved in for safety. 



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## cmacc (Jul 13, 2020)

Focus will come - it takes a lot of work to get there. I have a working line who's a complete nutcase when he's being worked but is an absolute gem with my family and bomb proof in public. I really think it's a matter of personal preference as to which lines you want to go with. All dogs have potential to be aggressive, genetics and training can help stack the odds in your favor.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

OldGreg said:


> Yes and lacks focus. Our trainer said she is more suited (if she can focus better and she is) to agility or I think nose work. That is something that worries me though, I like her friendliness and if working lines are aggresive then I worry we are not experienced enough to handle that. Of course, i know when properly handled a working line should know not to be aggressive innapropietly but I worry about getting a dog that is too much and we can't handle it. Cannoli has been a challenge but in a good way. Mostly we just want a pet but we see sports as a fun thing for them to do as enrichment. I was not sure if ipo was something that we need to be very heavily involved in for safety.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727A using Tapatalk


Aggression comes in many flavors and forms. It does happen more often with working line dogs, especially since some lines are bred to be over the top and have lots of aggression. That’s not something I’ve ever seen from show line breeders. Every working line isn’t like that. A good breeder can tell you if a breeding matches your experience level and match the puppy to you and your goals. The puppy I have now for example is pretty social.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> Aggression comes in many flavors and forms. It does happen more often with working line dogs, especially since some lines are bred to be over the top and have lots of aggression. That’s not something I’ve ever seen from show line breeders. Every working line isn’t like that. A good breeder can tell you if a breeding matches your experience level and match the puppy to you and your goals. The puppy I have now for example is pretty social.


It sounds like it is especially important with the working lines for the breeder to pick the puppy. 

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## Shadow Shep (Apr 16, 2020)

OldGreg said:


> Yes and lacks focus. Our trainer said she is more suited (if she can focus better and she is) to agility or I think nose work. That is something that worries me though, I like her friendliness and if working lines are aggresive then I worry we are not experienced enough to handle that. Of course, i know when properly handled a working line should know not to be aggressive innapropietly but I worry about getting a dog that is too much and we can't handle it. Cannoli has been a challenge but in a good way. Mostly we just want a pet but we see sports as a fun thing for them to do as enrichment. I was not sure if ipo was something that we need to be very heavily involved in for safety.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727A using Tapatalk


Friendly dogs can still do it. I talked to a club here in Washington, and the lady there said that they don't allow aggressive dogs, and me and my dog can do it.


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## finn'smom (Oct 4, 2019)

My experience living with a working line GSD and not being formally involved in any dog sport or training (pandemic got in the way). My guy is just over a year old, and he wouldn't have been chosen in his litter as a top prospect for IGP or high level sport but has more than enough ability and drive for an amateur like me to dabble and have fun. He's a handful and I love it, he's my "other" full time job.

The things I love about him - he's always up for an adventure - darn near fearless, something startles him and his reaction is to run towards it - he's smart, maybe more than is appreciated some days - he's athletic and up for nearly any task - as a puppy he thought learning the play structure at the park was as fun as a hundred tennis balls - his ability to learn and retain is fantastic - I live in town and he is solid around distractions, he's young and there are occasional hiccups - he is friendly with everyone we meet - as for the few things that have frightened him, I didn't ever push him to cross a scary bridge or confront that darn storm drain that makes the weird noises... but we walked up to them every day and I found that he very quickly found his own courage, after a few days and tries he'd be going head first with no hesitation and it wasn't scary anymore - his self confidence make him a dog I trust around friends and family.

The struggles or less perfect things - He is determined (drive) and when it doesn't have a suitable outlet or I want to sleep in... well... we've had a few battles of the wills with a pillow over my head and a GSD barking at the walls (I get up early a lot now) - his enthusiasm sometimes needs a damper, when he knows we're gearing up for something he loves he runs circles and bounces off of things and is vocal... this is improving with consistency but even once I get him to sit and wait he vibrates and the eruption of joy is always near the surface - he launches himself head first into things and thinks afterwards, sometimes my job is to keep him from jumping out of moving vehicles or off of things he should just stay on - he's a landshark, this has improved with age but he still open mouths whatever he thinks he can - and this you can view as a good or less good but he frightens people sometimes, his enthusiasm is often expressed vocally and I know he's talking about the party his mind is having but others don't always and that creates perception (I don't care one bit, but some would)

That's my experience - and even the items listed as struggles endear him to me more and more every day. I can't compare to a show line GSD as I've never owned one, but maybe that answers a few of your questions as to what to expect. I'm not sure what you're referring to as aggression though - my guy is not what I call aggressive - but if a bite sleeve was the job he'd go at it with the same determination he shows for getting me out of bed on his time table. I love his confidence and goofiness and willingness to follow me almost anywhere. Going to and joining a club will open the door to wealth of experience from people who know way more than I do. I'd think though with the right approach, dedication and commitment then finding the right breeder who will pick a puppy suited to you and your lifestyle... you might be surprised at how great a working line dog can be even for a novice. Not every puppy in every working line litter is going to be a great working or sport dog - some will excel as pets in active dedicated households.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

finn'smom said:


> My experience living with a working line GSD and not being formally involved in any dog sport or training (pandemic got in the way). My guy is just over a year old, and he wouldn't have been chosen in his litter as a top prospect for IGP or high level sport but has more than enough ability and drive for an amateur like me to dabble and have fun. He's a handful and I love it, he's my "other" full time job.
> 
> The things I love about him - he's always up for an adventure - darn near fearless, something startles him and his reaction is to run towards it - he's smart, maybe more than is appreciated some days - he's athletic and up for nearly any task - as a puppy he thought learning the play structure at the park was as fun as a hundred tennis balls - his ability to learn and retain is fantastic - I live in town and he is solid around distractions, he's young and there are occasional hiccups - he is friendly with everyone we meet - as for the few things that have frightened him, I didn't ever push him to cross a scary bridge or confront that darn storm drain that makes the weird noises... but we walked up to them every day and I found that he very quickly found his own courage, after a few days and tries he'd be going head first with no hesitation and it wasn't scary anymore - his self confidence make him a dog I trust around friends and family.
> 
> ...


I loved reading this! Thank you so much! He sounds like the kind of dog that keeps you on your toes. This def. Gives me confidence, especially the playbiting part because Cannoli is still all about that! 

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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

Shadow Shep said:


> Friendly dogs can still do it. I talked to a club here in Washington, and the lady there said that they don't allow aggressive dogs, and me and my dog can do it.


I think we are going to see how Cannoli enjoys this then. She likes to play rough and I think she would really enjoy trying then. I wonder if having a healthy outlet where she is allowed to bite in a controlled environment will give my hands and arms a break lol. 

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## finn'smom (Oct 4, 2019)

OldGreg said:


> I loved reading this! Thank you so much! He sounds like the kind of dog that keeps you on your toes. This def. Gives me confidence, especially the playbiting part because Cannoli is still all about that!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727A using Tapatalk


... a working line dog is likely to be more intense and more work to keep mentally satisfied... but there will be puppies of varying levels in show and working lines. The right breeder is golden, if you find that and have patience they will set you up with the right puppy. 

As a side note, I really enjoyed writing that lol there are days I need to remind myself how great Finn is and that was a perfect opportunity!


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

finn'smom said:


> ... a working line dog is likely to be more intense and more work to keep mentally satisfied... but there will be puppies of varying levels in show and working lines. The right breeder is golden, if you find that and have patience they will set you up with the right puppy.
> 
> As a side note, I really enjoyed writing that lol there are days I need to remind myself how great Finn is and that was a perfect opportunity!


I def will be asking the breeder for the most beginning level puppy if we end up with a workingline. I like being on my toes but Cannoli allows a little bit of sleeping in haha 

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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I would never recommend a GSD to someone living in an apartment. That being said, I suppose you could make it work with some dedication.

Other than how they look, what draws you to the GSD?

An hour long walk doesn't scratch the surface of what it takes to properly exercise and stimulate a WL pup. I have a 20 month WL/SL cross that stays with me 7:30-5 every day and an 11 week old WL pup. My day starts at 6 and I do nothing but dog stuff until 9. Marker training, fetch, 2 ball, hiking. Then 10-11 is another season, usually an off leash walk through the park with climbing lessons and recall work. 2-3 more marker training and fetch, or a walk in town. 7-9 (or until he falls asleep) is front yard time, just hanging out learning what normal looks like. Lots of joggers, bikes, dogs, kids going by.

The pup also goes everywhere with me that he is allowed.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

David Winners said:


> I would never recommend a GSD to someone living in an apartment. That being said, I suppose you could make it work with some dedication.
> 
> Other than how they look, what draws you to the GSD?
> 
> ...


I think you hit on two key points. Your pup is 11 weeks and you are already working him off leash and you are exposing him to all you can despite not being done with his shots.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I think you hit on two key points. Your pup is 11 weeks and you are already working him off leash and you are exposing him to all you can despite not being done with his shots.


He doesn't meet strange dogs. He doesn't meet people anywhere but my house. Now is the PERFECT time to learn off leash habits. The only time he's on a leash is in a store. He's always off leash in the yard or park. So is the older pup. He's on an e-collar but just because that makes it legal. He doesn't need it. His recall is bullet proof.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

David Winners said:


> He doesn't meet strange dogs. He doesn't meet people anywhere but my house. Now is the PERFECT time to learn off leash habits. The only time he's on a leash is in a store. He's always off leash in the yard or park. So is the older pup. He's on an e-collar but just because that makes it legal. He doesn't need it. His recall is bullet proof.


I don't leash mine up until they are a year or older unless we are going to the vet or being near traffic.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

David Winners said:


> I would never recommend a GSD to someone living in an apartment. That being said, I suppose you could make it work with some dedication.
> 
> Other than how they look, what draws you to the GSD?
> 
> ...


It is def. Challenging living in an apartment with our puppy. We hope to have a yard soon but for now we are mostly outdoors with her at the park or a nearby farm. We also were doing agility training once a week but have to pull back due to her condition. Originally, we were also going to buy her a treadmill but our trainer advised we wait until she is full grown. 

I think what attracts me most to German Shepherds is their diversity. It is incredible to see a breed that does everything from police work to therepy. I love how intelligent they are and that Cannoli is sassy. She gets us up and outside. I also love the way Cannoli keeps track of the family. She is always watching. 

All of that being said, I was looking over what you wrote and the other responses, and doing some thinking. As wonderful as the working line sounds, until we have a yard we will be sticking with the wgsl. I would love to do sports and eventually have two dogs that will play with each other. If there is a working dog that a breeder feels we can handle and would be able to thrive in our care then I am open to that but as of now I am leaning more towards a future showline. We excersize Cannoli a lot but not nearly as much as you are describing. 

Either way we are still going to find a club to meet more dogs and learn as much as we can. Always more to learn. It may be that it is a while before we feel we can give the right amount of enrichment to keep a working puppy busy. 

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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

My WGSL is very high energy.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> My WGSL is very high energy.


Cannoli is a wgsl but may be less energetic than yours. She settles down even though some days we are doing long walks instead of fetch and such. But we asked the breeder for a good beginner puppy. One of the other puppies in her litter was wayyyy higher energy. She also has her kidney condition and that may be slowing her down. We are able to tire her out from long walks, farm, and park time. 

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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

OldGreg said:


> Cannoli is a wgsl but may be less energetic than yours. She settles down even though some days we are doing long walks instead of fetch and such. But we asked the breeder for a good beginner puppy. One of the other puppies in her litter was wayyyy higher energy. She also has her kidney condition and that may be slowing her down. We are able to tire her out from long walks, farm, and park time.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727A using Tapatalk


Oh, mine has a nice off switch. He is a good dog that would fit in.most homes. He's nicely balanced.


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