# Am I picking the right puppy?



## csandlin (Sep 27, 2010)

I have been looking for a GSD for a little while now and talked to quite a few breeders who have given me prices ranging from $200-$3500 per puppy. After long conversations and visits to several I came across a breeder that I think may work, however, I am a little nervous and would like some input and advice. Here is the situation and history.

First, another breeder recommended the breeder because the sire was from their line. He is from good stock and has a good proven show line and papers. They also have all the documentation for hips and so on. He was shown recently, I am not sure how he did, he does have a faulty coat, and it is long. He is beautiful and friendly. He is also the American line.

The dam is the German line and is also very friendly and well trained. She didn't seem highly active as I was told most were. She was busy, just not overly. She was a police service dog before this breeder purchased her.

The story is that the breeder purchased her and the previous owner never gave them the papers. For the last three years they have been trying to locate them to get the papers and have had no luck. So therefore the puppies cannot be registered. The dam was registered and has records the same as the sire, however, without the proof they can't register the litter. 

You can tell by looking at her she is purebred and this seems to be an unfortunate situation. They bred because the male was having issues with confidence. They have another female that is a little more aggressive and wouldn't let him get to her. So with the help of the other breeder they bred this litter. This is the sire's first litter.

They have made everyone aware that they are unregistered, but they are guaranteeing them as they were. We have visited them twice and were free to take them home at six weeks, but decided to wait until they were nine. 

My question and concern is should I worry about this or does this seem fishy? They have the backing from two other breeders who have good lines and are registered with AKC. 

Please help,
Thank you!
Sorry so long


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

They bred dogs they can't register? Sounds like a BYB. Do they have a website?

Are the dogs OFA'd? Any titles? How much are they charging for dogs that can't be registered?

Take the puppies home at 6 weeks? No way is a good breeder going to allow that.

Bred because the male was having confidence issues? Nope...not a legitimate reason

Yes, it does seem a bit fishy to me. Run...run far...run fast...

Why don't you post where you are at, along with what you are looking for in a puppy, and maybe someone can suggest a breeder for you.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> They bred dogs they can't register? Sounds like a BYB. Do they have a website?
> 
> Are the dogs OFA'd? Any titles? How much are they charging for dogs that can't be registered?
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## csandlin (Sep 27, 2010)

Forgot to add that part.

I live in Oklahoma and would love to have a good companion. I am not interested in showing or breeding. I think I would like to have a cross breed because I would get a mix between the two temperaments. I love to coloring of the German line, which I guess generally has more of the red. I also like the more traditional thicker hair instead of the wiry short hair. I had a retired GSD from Germany when I was a child and he was amazing. Although when I had him he was already trained, so I know it will be much different. He was the best dog I ever had and he protected he better than any other dog I have ever had too.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

I personally would RUN!!!! Too many faults you listed, they bred them because of lack of confidence??? Long hair dog?? :nono:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

psstt....^^^ GSDBESTK9 has gorgeous puppies if you are interested in shipping one in!!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

sounds like they....

...bred dogs they can't register

...bred a dog against standard (coated)

...bred a dog with known temperament issues? ("They bred because the male was having issues with confidence.")

...the first litter for the male

...allow puppies to go home at six weeks


All of these are red flags to me. In combination....I personally would go elsewhere. No reason to get mixed up in "an unfortunate situation."


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Everything should be open and above board. If you have any bad feelings, you are probably right and should keep looking. Did you have a chance to look at and really READ all the links in the following post? Really a good way to have enough knowledge when speaking to a breeder to weed out the good (who deserve you money ) from the bad (who don't deserve any $$$$ and should STOP breeding !)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

If you're not interested in showing and don't care about a registration, then it's up to you, but I also have concerns about a breeder letting a puppy go at 6 wks. Are they offering any kind of hip/health guarantee? If you really like them, they're recommended by other breeders and you're comfortable with the situation then I guess it's up to you. It sounds as though you've done a good deal of research but it certainly doesn't hurt to look further.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Agree with anyone that would let them go at 6 weeks. I sent you a PM.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

If you're not interested in showing or breeding and are just looking for a good companion, have you considered adopting an adult rescue dog from a foster home? Even with the best-bred puppies you never know exactly what you're going to get, but with an adult dog in a foster home you can speak with the foster family about how the dog gets along with kids, cats, other dogs, etc and what you see is pretty much what you get. You can even pick the color and coat type you want without worrying about whether that puppy is going to lighten up, get darker, or end up plusher or smoother coated than you wanted. 

When you cross-breed working and show-line dogs, many people think they're automatically going to get the best of both worlds but it's just as likely that you'll get the worst. It's not that hard to find a reputable working-line breeder, or a reputable show-line breeder, but _most_ (not all) people crossing the two are backyard breeders trying to make a buck.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)




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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

TitonsDad said:


>


:rofl:

I seriously just thought of that!

I WAS RUNNNNIN!!!!!!


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## csandlin (Sep 27, 2010)

Thank you to everyone that has responded. I appreciate the input and value all of your opinions. I want to make the right decision that will be best for my family and the of course the puppy. I adopted a puppy from a shelter that was a shepherd mix and it turned out bad, he got very sick and had to be put down. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I don't ever want to go through that again if at all possible. This is why I am so concerned with making the right decision. 
The one good thing about this breeder is that he is very informed about the breed and he does guarantee them on health for hips. He will also take them back if things don't work out. There are a lot of good things about this breeder, but then there are some bad things about him as well. I know that he is trying his best to bring up his standards by showing and this was his last unregistered litter. The sire was very inexperienced and unsure so they put him with the dam that was easy. His coat is long so it is a fault, but it is pretty. I am not sure how well he did in show because of his coat though. I am not sure why is coat is long because I got to see his relatives and none of them have long hair, they are all perfect and have done well in show.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The coated gene is recessive, so it's fairly common for two normal coated parents to produce coats. Nothing wrong with a coat. I would be far, FAR more concerned with the fact that there doesn't seem to be any direction to this breeding and that the male has temperament problems. Is that really what you want? There are SO many good breeders out there, it just seems like an unnecessary risk...


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

If the male shows lack of confidence in his surroundings, what is he like in a strange place? Probably a nervous reck. Is that what you want in a puppy? Just a thought.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Did you check your private messages? I sent you a PM earlier today.


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## csandlin (Sep 27, 2010)

You are all right, I don't want a pup with temperament problems. I don't think the sire has issues though, he just never sired before and didn't know what to do for the sound of the breeder and the other breeder that recommended him in the first place. This was his first go. I do know that he was put with another female to breed that is registered and she was very aggressive and beat him up pretty good. She wasn't having any part of him and he didn't take charge. That is why this breeder had to get help from the other breeder. The sire had to have help I guess.
He is a very nice dog from what I have seen and when I have been around him. He is very good with my two kids. It's just the the dam that is the concern. Her not being registered is the only issue I guess. I have seen the sires heritage line and it is great. All I have is the word on the dam's line and vet stating she is in good health. Of course her looks too. But that doesn't mean much really. A dog can be beautiful but crazy too. 

I did read my PM and I will check it out thank you!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

definitely run. Continue looking. there are plenty of people on this site that breed and can recommend quality breeders.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Continue looking, too many red flags.

I know you have already gone to a shelter, but have you at least checked again? Also state what other qualities you want in a dog that will also help people put i the right direction for a breeder.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

how about this boy? http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...3312-male-german-shepherd-los-angeles-ca.html


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

csandlin said:


> You are all right, I don't want a pup with temperament problems. I don't think the sire has issues though, he just never sired before and didn't know what to do for the sound of the breeder and the other breeder that recommended him in the first place. This was his first go. I do know that he was put with another female to breed that is registered and she was very aggressive and beat him up pretty good. She wasn't having any part of him and he didn't take charge. That is why this breeder had to get help from the other breeder. The sire had to have help I guess.
> He is a very nice dog from what I have seen and when I have been around him. He is very good with my two kids.


Honestly this concerns me about the breeder. You say they are experienced, but what does that mean? Has this dog been trained and worked and tested? Maybe I need to use my line...I've brushed my teeth for 26 years but it doesn't make me a dentist.

I don't know any experienced breeders that would throw their stud male in with an aggressive female for breeding. Males can really be injured during breeding, not just if the female is aggressive but if they don't stay still for the tie. What you describe sounds very inexperienced and... "backyard".


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Hi, I belong to the German Shepherd Club of Oklahoma. I know a couple of reputable breeders in our club with American showlines and working lines that you could contact.

I'll send you a PM and you can check the them out and see if you are interested.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I have to agree with everyone, run far far away! At least do yourself a favor and check out other breeders. This throws up way to many red flags indeed.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I did a little search and yes it was deleted


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Liesje said:


> sounds like they....
> 
> ...bred dogs they can't register
> 
> ...


To go off in another direction here, I thought the SV had revised the standard to allow registration of long coated dogs as long as they have an undercoat.

SV Breed Survey Rules | Fred Lanting


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## DonP (Apr 13, 2009)

bocron said:


> To go off in another direction here, I thought the SV had revised the standard to allow registration of long coated dogs as long as they have an undercoat.
> 
> SV Breed Survey Rules | Fred Lanting


You're right, the SV does allow breeding longcoats but only to other longcoats. 

Don


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## nikkiscriv (Feb 10, 2010)

I agree with everyone here and would definitely stay away from that breeder. Here is the link to the North Texas GSD Rescue - North Texas German Shepherd Rescue, Inc. I think that might be a good place to start off. Also, there are several good breeders in the North Texas area..I'm not sure how far you're willing to drive, but there are several threads in the 'Choosing A Breeder' category that have excellent suggestions in your area.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Also check out Good Shepherd Rescue of North Texas. I can't seem to get their website to pull up right now, but they're on Petfinder.


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