# 4 month old food obsessive...



## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

And by food obsessive, I mean he cannot focus when there is food around. He gets 1 cup, 3x a day of blue buffalo lamb and rice formula. He is made to sit and wait until we tell him to eat...and then he ignores us until he's done, even if we tell him to leave it (which he's normally VERY good at). When we're trying to do training with treats, he gets so into the treats that he'll just start doing all of his tricks at once, or he won't listen at all. Any suggestions?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

are you sure that is enough.
I don't think he is ever at the point where he is feeling full.
Maybe two hardy meals would be better.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah, three cups a day doesn't sound like enough for a growing pup at all. What does the bag recommend? How does he look physically?


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

the bag says about 2 1/2 cups a day, so we're giving him a little more than that. should i maybe up to 4 cups a day? Physically he looks great. He was VERY skinny when we got him, so we plumped him up a bit. I cannot see his ribs (though him having a plush coat doesn't help with that xD), but they can be felt.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

iBaman said:


> He is made to sit and wait until we tell him to eat...and then he ignores us until he's done, even if we tell him to leave it (which he's normally VERY good at).


Why would you tell him leave it after you've released him to eat? My dogs will sit or down and wait with eye contact as long as I want, with their food bowls on the floor, but I'm pretty sure that once I say "okay" and they start eating, nothing short of a bomb going off next to them would make them stop until they're done.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

because he eats so danged fast xD And sometimes he just lunges for his food before i say it's ok...so in those cases, i want him to leave it.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

You can get a bowl that will slow his eating.

Here's a link to a photo of one.

*





*


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

iBaman said:


> because he eats so danged fast xD And sometimes he just lunges for his food before i say it's ok...so in those cases, i want him to leave it.


I wouldn't go that route... I mean, once you've released him to eat, Lord Baby, it's time to eat. If he lunges before the "okay," then take it right back up and start over. But once the bowl is down, don't mess with it. If he's inhaling it scary fast, then you might try dividing up the portions and doing it twice per feeding. It honestly just sounds like he's not eating enough.

I'm really amazed that BB only recommends three cups a day for a 4 month old? Hmm!


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

Once I say ok, he can dig in usually. xD 

so how much should I up his food? He's not underweight in any way...He's about 40lbs, give or take a couple lbs (he was 40 when we took him in to be neutered 2 weeks ago).


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

iBaman said:


> Once I say ok, he can dig in usually. xD
> 
> so how much should I up his food? He's not underweight in any way...He's about 40lbs, give or take a couple lbs (he was 40 when we took him in to be neutered 2 weeks ago).


I think Carmspack is on to the right idea, just two feedings so when he's done he feels nice and happy-full. Is there something in his past that he didn't feel he got enough to eat? 

What do you mean, "he can dig in *usually*." ?

I went to the BB site and it looks like you're on the adult formula? Not that that's an issue, many go adult pretty early. Without examining the other parts, though, it caught my eye. None-the-less, you're right as far as what they recommend for feeding. Just surprised!

How much exercise is he getting? If more than typical/normal, it could possibly up his need for more food.

Can you post some pics?


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

chelle said:


> I think Carmspack is on to the right idea, just two feedings so when he's done he feels nice and happy-full. Is there something in his past that he didn't feel he got enough to eat?
> 
> What do you mean, "he can dig in *usually*." ?
> 
> ...


by usually, i mean when he starts choking on his food, i make him stop for a second. 

We're on the adult because he had some issues with his feet (he was basically walking on his carpals..I'll post pics a little later...it's insane!) when we got him, and vet suggested a low protein/fat diet. It's worked, cause he walks where he's supposed to now =]

As far as exercise, right now we live on the third floor in an apartment (moving next month...so excited!!), so he has the stairs, and then about 1/4 of a mile a few times a day. He gets a long walk and a short run in with daddy in the morning too. too much, maybe?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

If he is at the right weight, I wouldn't feed him more. The last thing you want is a FAT puppy. Some pups/dogs just LOVE food in any form. If I fed my female as much as it would take for her to " feel full", she would weigh 150lbs!!! (Rather than the 75 ish lbs that is ideal for her.) She loves to eat and had been that was since 8 weeks.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

iBaman said:


> by usually, i mean when he starts choking on his food, i make him stop for a second.
> 
> We're on the adult because he had some issues with his feet (he was basically walking on his carpals..I'll post pics a little later...it's insane!) when we got him, and vet suggested a low protein/fat diet. It's worked, cause he walks where he's supposed to now =]
> 
> As far as exercise, right now we live on the third floor in an apartment (moving next month...so excited!!), so he has the stairs, and then about 1/4 of a mile a few times a day. He gets a long walk and a short run in with daddy in the morning too. too much, maybe?


Well I'm out of my element to give you advice.  Many go to adult foods early, but from what I've learned, you must check calcium/phosphorus balances. Hopefully someone will chime in on that. 

Choking? Goodness. Hmm.. Sounds like the guy is starving. It is worrisome that he is so HUNGRY.! Has he been checked for worms? 

I don't think there's really such a thing as "too much" exercise for a pup of that age. 

Pics would be awesome. Are his ribs showing? Is he thin? I'm TOTALLY going outside anything I know here, but if I had a pup so obsessed with food, I'd feed him and feed him... to at least hopefully get him past his (seeming) obsession that he seems to have that there isn't enough to eat. No, you don't want an overweight pup... but I'd monitor it closely. I'd go to two meals per day, break them up so he doesn't inhale/choke, but with enough food that he's leaving food in the bowl eventually. It's not like he'll get fat if you do this for a week. BUT you may break the food obsession thing.

Do you know anything of his history -- was there a food problem? Did he not get fed enough when he was very little?

Disclaimer!!!!!! I'm speaking on *instinct* of what I would do - NOT what I've had to ever deal with!


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

Here's a side view:









Top view: 









and just for s**ts and giggles, his feet when we got him:


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

chelle said:


> Well I'm out of my element to give you advice.  Many go to adult foods early, but from what I've learned, you must check calcium/phosphorus balances. Hopefully someone will chime in on that.
> 
> Choking? Goodness. Hmm.. Sounds like the guy is starving. It is worrisome that he is so HUNGRY.! Has he been checked for worms?
> 
> ...


I don't think there was a food problem. Not one that they mentioned, anyways. I want to try the feeding him until he's full, but i'm scared he'll never be full  And no worms or other things. We had him checked during the neuter =3 (along with a blood panel).

the calcium is 1.3%, so i guess it's a touch high...phosphorus is 1.0%...puppy's be trippin, yo! xD


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Feeding them more than they NEED is a GREAT way to give them diarrhea (sp). (And is the reason that the vast majority of dogs in the U.S are FAT.) This is coming from someone that has a dog that will eat literally ANYTHING. She ate meals like all were the last supper for 3 YEARS. { She is 3 1 /2 yo now and while she STILL will eat anything, she eats her meals slower than she used to.} 
Didn't hurt her a bit. It is up to the HUMAN to decide how much the pup/dog needs to maintain the correct weight.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

This is true. Scheduled feeding is new to me, as my dogs growing up were all free feeders (never overweight). So I just want to make sure he's getting enough and he's just pretending he's starving xD


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

If I were to take your entire caloric needs , create a menu , and then provide this for you spread throughout the 12 or so hours that you are awake you too would be preoccupied anticipating the next morsel that you were to get.
Try the two meals a day .
When you give him the food , go away , don't give the dog the feeling that you are competing for it and then maybe he won't be so hasty .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

carmspack said:


> If I were to take your entire caloric needs , create a menu , and then provide this for you spread throughout the 12 or so hours that you are awake you too would be preoccupied anticipating the next morsel that you were to get.
> Try the two meals a day .
> When you give him the food , go away , don't give the dog the feeling that you are competing for it and then maybe he won't be so hasty .
> 
> ...


I don't hover =/ i'm usually in the other room. I just listen to him and make sure he's not choking...I'll try the two meals a day rather than three though...maybe that'll help


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

No one has added this but, start using a toy for training reward rather than food. This is because the food drive seems so over the top and I have been told to train with the one that is less intense.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

LOL - I have done just the opposite for some detail work with a dog over the top for his ball (change up to the lower value reward of food)...

My little female though is veyr much like this...both food and ball driven but a screw is loose in her head when it comes to food. But all my dogs eat fast even though they are in their crates when they do eat...I put a spoon of pumpkin in the food and stir it around, sometimes add a litlle water to keep them from inhaling and choking n it.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

You could also try dumping his food on a cookie sheet. Should force him to slow down and make it harder to scarf his food. (Can't take big mouthfulls when it is spread out like that.)


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

iBaman said:


> because he eats so danged fast xD And sometimes he just lunges for his food before i say it's ok...so in those cases, i want him to leave it.


Ah, there is a MUCH better way of dealing with this. As Anne suggested, the Brake Fast bowl will slow down his eating. And if he lunges for his food before you've released him, simply pick the bowl back up and wait for him to sit again. Do this as many times as necessary for him to figure out that if he ever wants to eat again, he has to play by your rules! 

I start training this early, but at first I make it very easy - I release the second I put down the bowl and remove my hands from it, before I've even stood all the way back up. Obviously, I put the puppy far enough away that it can't actually get to the bowl before I pick it up. I slowly increase the criteria, working up to being able to have my dogs in a down with the bowl right under their noses, and me several feet away, but I don't start there, I start at a level that they can succeed at. Teaching impulse control around food is a great thing that every puppy owner should work on.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

we don't even do toys anymore, it's strictly praise. he gets too distracted with toys. One of these times, I'll post a video of his tricks...he's pretty good when he listens xD Thanks to everyone who's given advice =3


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

This is Halo at 15 weeks old, waiting to be released to eat:










Notice how she's looking at my husband and NOT at the food bowl? She is the most food driven dog I've ever had - I thought Keefer was bad, but she's a DEMON!!! :wild: But the great thing about that is the more motivated she is by food, the easier it is to train her because she figures out VERY quickly what she needs to do to get me to give it to her.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

iBaman said:


> we don't even do toys anymore, it's strictly praise. he gets too distracted with toys.


Again - training opportunity! Teach him impulse control around toys.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Again - training opportunity! Teach him impulse control around toys.


He's getting better about the toys, but not enough to use it as a treat. Eventually we could probably use them though. It seems he does best with just praise. Low distraction, and he'll do anything to get some lovins <3


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

Could you try taking handfuls of the food and scatter it about the kitchen floor? We had to do this with our St. Bernard as he would inhale food like you described. He was a food demon as a puppy, he once managered to eat a whole loaf of bread and a dozon hard boiled eggs at a garden party before we noticed. He learned to eat much slower with the scatter method and there was no choking or gagging. Its also a good way to teach them to track and work for their meals which tires them out. 
Your boy looks great btw.. Perfect shape to me


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

My pup is 6 months old, 55 pounds and gets 2 cups three times a day = 6 cups. Three cups a day doesn't sound like nearly enough food. Maybe he's crazy hungry. 


FWIW, I would never, never, never do the tease thing (withold food, put it down, take it up). Talk about asking for problems. The only reason people don't get bit doing stuff like that is that most dogs really are trying so hard to please. They put up with almost anything from their people. But they should not be asked to put up with that. Tormenting a dog over food is foolish. You people who do that, go outside and pull the wings off some butterflies and leave the poor dog to eat in peace.


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## iBaman (Oct 25, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Ah, there is a MUCH better way of dealing with this. As Anne suggested, the Brake Fast bowl will slow down his eating. And if he lunges for his food before you've released him, simply pick the bowl back up and wait for him to sit again. Do this as many times as necessary for him to figure out that if he ever wants to eat again, he has to play by your rules!
> 
> I start training this early, but at first I make it very easy - I release the second I put down the bowl and remove my hands from it, before I've even stood all the way back up. Obviously, I put the puppy far enough away that it can't actually get to the bowl before I pick it up. I slowly increase the criteria, working up to being able to have my dogs in a down with the bowl right under their noses, and me several feet away, but I don't start there, I start at a level that they can succeed at. Teaching impulse control around food is a great thing that every puppy owner should work on.


See, we do that. We started with just a couple seconds, and have slowly increased the time...but some days, he just wants to eat, and ignores everything xP He's a work in progress (and also has the attention span of a gopher...). And what kind of food are you feeding, Marnie? I'm feeding a little over what the bag recommends, as it is adult food and he's a growing puppy. Different foods call for different servings. *shrug* He's not skinny in the least, nor lethargic or anything that would suggest he's not getting enough. he just acts like he hasn't eaten in days when he's fed xD I'm working on focus right now...why I had never heard of that is beyond me. We have every training book we could find, plus a german shepherd specific one, and none of them tell you to teach focus....oi vey.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Marnie said:


> FWIW, I would never, never, never do the tease thing (withold food, put it down, take it up). Talk about asking for problems. The only reason people don't get bit doing stuff like that is that most dogs really are trying so hard to please. They put up with almost anything from their people. But they should not be asked to put up with that. Tormenting a dog over food is foolish. You people who do that, go outside and pull the wings off some butterflies and leave the poor dog to eat in peace.


Depends on how you're defining this (tease). If Bailey attempts to go for his food before he is released, the bowls come straight back up and we start over. This rarely happens anymore, because he knows he must wait. I don't make him wait long. Just as Cassidy's Mom's pic. If you're saying that is tormenting, I think you're wrong. Once the food is down, however, I will not mess with it in any way until I pull it completely about 15-20 minutes later. 

I buy the food. I mix the food. I provide it and Bailey needs to know I'm in control of it, just as he needs to know I'm fair about it once he has *earned* it. 

I'm not sure who you're referring to as "you people," but I can only speak for myself in saying I've never pulled the wing off of a butterfly.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Hmmm...well, I had three kids in three years, and I had to make sure that little hands around and in food (mostly the other kids over to play with mine) wouldn't get bitten. I start a pup early on having their food messed with--mostly by having a super yummy high-value treat in my hand, plunging my hand in the bowl and then offering him the treat. Also, if I did take his bowl up, I had another treat ready and shoved it in his mouth and then put the bowl down quickly. My dogs were always the talk of the other moms about how good they were with kids. 

My kids are much much older now, but I did the same with Rocket and he could care less. 

And I've never pulled the wings off of a butterfly either.


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