# Puppy with Parvo - Just placed in hospital



## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi Everyone -

A few months ago my 13 year old GSD died in the middle of the night. He was a great dog! He was by our side every moment from 8 weeks till the day he died, "looking out" for us and "keeping us safe". It was REALLY hard to lose him.

So we started looking for another GSD. I have another GSD girl dog that's around 9 as well, and thought we should get a boy since she's a girl. I put money down on some pups, but it didn't work out. We were 9th and she had 3. So we went to another breeder who's actually not on the forums, but was recommended to me via the forums. And I believe she's a good person, and don't really blame her for the situation. 

Anyway, we went to pick up a bi-color male that seemed perfect for us in videos and pictures. She brought the pups to a Petco near us for us to see. But we passed up the bi-color for a solid black boy because he was so confident, outgoing, and people loving. He was into everything, and wanted to explore and get into everything around him. He was even barking and trying to play with my girl dog. You could tell, he was just a great puppy. 

That was Monday night. From Monday to Wednesday, we couldn't believe our luck. He has such a great attitude. No fear of anything and wanting to investigate everything. Thursday, he came down sick. And Thursday night we took him to the emergency and he has parvo. They gave him under the skin fluids, and a shot for his upset stomach. The next day I took him to our vet. I got a subscription for Tamiflu. He received an antibiotic, more shots for vomiting and we started a regiment of taking him every 12 hours back to the vet for more fluid treatment. 

He took a turn for the worse last night, Saturday, end of day 2, and started vomiting, so now he's in the hospital. Up until now, he only vomited on the first day. He does have diarrhea, and has been off his food, but was eating Friday night and Saturday morning, a little bit, even wanting to play Saturday morning. The emergency room doctor didn't like the way he looked this morning, so he's staying at least overnight in the hostpital. She gave him a 50/50 chance. 

Really? 50/50. Seriously? I didn't want to be a jerk and tell her I thought she was a little negative, but I think that's not a very positive outlook. I looked at a lot of dogs on YouTube who were seriously worse off and made it without a problem.

He was a very healthy pup, and was being fed high quality food, even a partial raw diet. He had one of his parvo shots. I think he picked this up at the store where she brought him for us to look at. 
With IV fluids, and I think she's doing a feeding tube + anti-vomiting, I have to think that 50/50 is pretty low. 

We would be devastated to lose yet another great dog. My wife and I discussed the idea that the breeder owes us another pup if this one passes away, but I don't even want to go there. I want this pup, not one of the others. He's just perfect. 

And the moral of the story is: Don't take your puppies to the **** PET STORE before they've had all their shots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Sorry you're puppy is going through this! Best wishes for a speedy recovery!


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Do not want to be a jerk here but you should have known this. Until they have there shots they are very vulnerable. This is why soicalizon and vaccinations are such a issue. You have a small window to have a well balanced social dog but you also have to be careful about where the dog goes who he meets. From how I'm reading it the breeder actually did this not you. I am going to temp faith here or temp admins as well, the breeder is stupid for doing that.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Absolutely the breeder would be on the hook for another puppy if the breeder brought the puppy (under vaccinated) to Petco, but would you want another puppy from a breeder who would put there puppies in danger like that....


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Oh no, so sorry you are going through this. I don't have any advice, just wanted to wish your pup a quick and complete recovery. Please let us know how he's doing.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Yes, she should have known. It's very sad. I didn't really even think of the issue -- but NOW I'm thinking of the issue.
I contacted her and explained what happened. She is horrified. 

I picked the puppy up on Monday night. It was sick by Thursday morning... 

I've read that parvo incubation can be delayed up to 10 days, but normal incubation is 3 (even 2) days to 10 days. I only read one report that said 2 days. 

She says as of now non of the other pups have come down with symptoms. But she's not out of the woods until probably Friday of next week (according to what I'm reading). 

I did take the puppy out in our local park (neighborhood grassy area not really a park) the next day for some pictures: so Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday noon ... is that enough time?

I just called the hospital. He's hanging in there... he's not better or worse from 5 hours ago.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Yes, I would take the other girl black puppy if she didn't have parvo. She has the same personality. But honestly, this pup is the one that really stood out. We loved him instantly.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Ask the vet if parvo is high in your neck if the woods, my guess is it is 50/50 he got it from either place, puppies can get parvo from a number of places, top 2 places tho are pet stores and parks, a grassy nole can still have parvo. It is a virus that lives in the environment for up to a year, it is hard to get rid of.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

When I got Luna at 7 weeks old, she had already had 2 rounds of distemper and parvo shots. Even with that I was very careful with her, she would go to work with me and i did let her go potty outside but I had a weird way of picking the spot. If it looked like dogs went there I avoided it, I choose to have her get as much socialization as possible for her age. Only after her final distemper shor did we start going to Petco and not until her rabies shot did we even come remotely close to another dog. Some people criticized me for not waiting for her to be 100% vaccinated until bringing get out but for me socialization was number one in my list, but I was very careful with where we went and when we went.

I do wish your puppy the best luck.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

I have talked to 4 vets over the last 3 1/2 days. They all said that the pup had parvo when I picked him up, and that Monday night to Thursday morning is not enough incubation time. 
Of course they don't know for sure... but I suppose they would know, they're vets after all. 

I live in Peoria, Arizona. I'm not sure how prevalent parvo is here... 

I don't think it's as bad as in the south. The vet tech is from North Carolina and said that she'd had as many as 24 cases in her clinic at the same time. 
She too said that there was no way the puppy got it after I picked him up. But in the end, I just want him back.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

I'm sorry your baby dog and your family is going through this. Best place for him now is with the vet. I bet they can pull him through. 

And yes, taking an unfully vaccinated puppy to ANY public area where other dogs have been can give them parvo. My GSD breeder told me on the way home, do not stop at any highway rest areas and such. Take her out in the country roads where no other dogs have ever been. Housebreak her to her own yard and keep her away from where other dogs have been until she has had all her shots. 

When I took her to Tractor Supply Company for her rabies shot, I had her ride in the cart up off the floor. If you want to take your puppy around to socialize or get used to the human world, carry the puppy in arms and do not let strangers pet. Often they have dogs and who knows where they have been. This is a virus!


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

markhenley said:


> I have talked to 4 vets over the last 3 1/2 days. They all said that the pup had parvo when I picked him up, and that Monday night to Thursday morning is not enough incubation time.
> Of course they don't know for sure... but I suppose they would know, they're vets after all.
> 
> I live in Peoria, Arizona. I'm not sure how prevalent parvo is here...
> ...


 parvo does seem to be greater down here in flordai LOL. I agree with you that the chances of him having parvo before you got him is very likely. You might want to he slightly more forceful and explain what 4 vets told you. It will help her in the long run.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

I wonder why Petsmart/Petco don't have signs on the front of their stores about un-vaccinated puppies/ kittens. 

If they really care about pets, doesn't that make sense. 

I'm an amateur, I just have always treated my dogs like one of my family members. I thought of a petstore as sort of safe. The thought of my healthy puppy coming down with parvo wasn't even on my radar. 
I didn't even think of the ramifications of taking a puppy to a petstore. 

I'm more educated now, since I have a puppy in the hospital. 

And I can't really throw stones at the breeder since I too was taking the puppy literally from Petco. Okay, let's say the puppy had parvo already (likely the case), and he was running around in the store. egads, amazingly stupid and horrible. 

I might have reconsidered the entire process had I seen a GIANT sign out front that said: PROTECT YOUR PUPPY!!!!! IS THE PUPPY VACCINATED? Then a skull and crossbones might add a nice touch. They might even sell a few vaccinations.


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## Hellish (Jul 29, 2017)

I am sorry you are going thru this Mark. Parvo is very prevalent in Arizona.

I went thru what you are experiencing with my rottweiler. He had received his third shot, and had never been anywhere and was even carried into the vet's office for each appointment. He started with the vomiting and diarrhea within a week, and I took him to the emergency vet and they looked at him and told me that as a black and tan dog they are hit hardest and I should just euthanize him. Welllll I had just gotten the news my brother was terminal with cancer and I couldn't help him, but maybe I could this dog. 

Every day I dropped him at my usual vet's and they put him on an IV for fluids, and anti nausea. And then I would take him home in the evening. Still a lot of vomiting in the evenings. One lucky stroke according to the vet was that his stool never turned bloody. He did not shed the lining of his intestine and open himself up to becoming septic (hmm, coincidentally one of his vet techs had a boxer pup on site also enjoying this "milder" strain). So it was about a week of this before he was finally holding things down and returning to firm stool.

Two after effects of this - he will NOT settle in the vet's office. Very fearful and super clingy. And the other effect is that he did not beef up and so I have a slender rottweiler which perhaps his joints are grateful for? He is 11 now. 

Cant tell you how paranoid about parvo I was when bringing the shepherd pup home. We had changed houses and it was 10 years later but I was still forging ahead with bleaching the backyard and all surfaces in my house.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Thanks Hellish -

I've been taking him two times each day to the vet to get under the skin fluid, and have the vet look at him. He was looking good until last night.
The hospital just called, and they want to give him several different medicines to increase his blood pressure and help him stop vomiting. 

They went over the cost estimate... by a few hundred dollars. Let's see... I've spent $2100 so far and paid a thousand for him. Yes, give him the medicine! 
I hope I don't end up with a $3100 dead puppy. Besides the fact that I just lost my other dog, I just can't go there.


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## Hellish (Jul 29, 2017)

Hopefully the change in meds will help. Its a very frustrating and helpless position.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Come on Puppy! Dear Lord of life, send the energy of 100s of well wishing people to this puppy.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Update: The meds worked, so his blood pressure is up and he's feeling better!!!
I'm SUPER glad I admitted him into the hospital now, because it feels like he wouldn't have made it through the day.

Fingers crossed. We'll see how he is tomorrow morning.

It may take me a year to pay the bill, but maybe I will have a GSD to help me feel better about it and I can lord it over him if he eats my shoes


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I had a Dobe puppy that got parvo, AFTER she had all her vaccinations. She recovered and lived a very healthy 14 years. 

Hope your little guy gets better soon. Parvo is pretty scary.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> I had a Dobe puppy that got parvo, AFTER she had all her vaccinations. She recovered and lived a very healthy 14 years.
> 
> Hope your little guy gets better soon. Parvo is pretty scary.


Been there. My Dane got Parvo at 9 months old, fully vaccinated. Vet said she was the one in a million. 

Incubation period for Parvo, most vets agree, is 7-14 days. Some reports say three days, but I have my doubts. A breeder should absolutely have know better then to take pups into a store like that.
Vets, like doctors, are going to give you the worst case. And parvo is tricky, the pups that look like they won't pull through often do and pups that seem to be fine sometimes just give up. 
I do hope your pup pulls through and will add my good thoughts as well.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I went through the same thing. I lost by Golden due to bone cancer. I went to a shelter two days later (because I couldn't stop crying) and picked up a 9 week old GSD/Rottie mix. Two days later he started with the vomiting so I took him to the vet immediately. He tested positive for Parvo. Like you, they told me he had a 50/50 shot of making it. I was devastated. I had just lost my Golden, and was told the puppy I purchased might night make it. It was horrible.

I'm happy to say he did make it with no lasting health concerns. He died at ten due to a seizure. He was my heart dog, and the best $85 I ever spent.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Just got off the phone with the hospital (again - they must think I'm a pest by now. I've called 4 times and they called me once). He still vomiting (bad) but his BP is remaining low/normal. They are continuing to give him fluids and they think that as of now, he still needs more. 

I'm wondering, it's up to the puppy to build up immunity to fight the virus. Certainly that must be happening. Is it possible that he won't build the immunity? I'm hoping by morning when I pick him up to take him to the regular vet he'll start getting better...


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I remember it took several days before Tess started getting better. I have my fingers crossed for your little guy.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Sending all the healing energy I can your way! Hopefully he'll recover quickly!

My limited understanding of the disease is that dehydration is the biggest threat. But he's getting fluids intravenously, so there's lots of reason to believe he'll recover...again, all the best!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am glad your puppy is doing better. 

Now, I want to say a few things:

1. Parvo is a killer. Your vet gave you a 50/50 shot because that was what she thought the chances were. She was not being negative. She was being honest. Yes, some dogs that look worse make it. Nature is like that. Sometimes the healthier seeming ones drop quicker. Parvo is a killer. 

2. I wouldn't get another puppy from your breeder, ever. As a breeder, I am flipping furious that she would take baby-puppies to a pet store to show them to a prospective buyer. A pet store is a high-traffic dog area. Parvo is a virus that incubates, becomes contagious, and then shows symptoms. No one is standing at the door of pet stores requiring vaccination histories for admission. So, dogs are there that are vaccinated, and aren't vaccinated. All the time I see people putting puppies, four weeks old, down on the floor in Pet stores. I want to smack them. Some of those puppies have parvo and their owners do not know it yet. Some of them will pick up parvo there, and their owners do not know it. 

3. If a bitch is properly vaccinated, at some point prior to getting pregnant, as she should be, and that means anywhere within 3 years of the previous vaccination date, then her puppies will be under her immunity. The problem is, it wears off. Only we don't know when. It is individual to the puppy. So veterinarians make up schedules of vaccination. They will vaccinate puppies 2 times by seven weeks??? That's nuts. My vet wants 4 puppy shots with 3 weeks in between. Like 6 weeks, 9 weeks, 12 weeks, and 15-16 weeks. That is too much in my opinion. A six week old puppy may still be under the dam's immunity so that shot is wasted. The pup does not build up its own anti-bodies. So the next shot will be at 9 weeks. 

I am worse, I wait until 7 weeks and go every 4-5 weeks, so 7 weeks, and if the pup is still under the dam's immunity -- not as likely, but then the 11 week should cover with a booster at 16 weeks. Then nothing for 1 year. But taking them to parks or pet stores that have high canine traffic is out until days after that 11 week old shot. Because it takes a couple of days for antibodies to start building. 

4. It is not up to the pet store to educate people or protect dogs from diseases. Most of the stores, I've been in have a sign that say "vaccinated pets welcome." But people pay as much attention to that as they do to those little registration cards in the pew at the church -- maybe some folks fill them out. 

Your pup's health and welfare and training and nutrition is up to you. They don't come with an instruction manual. You have to go and read a book. Or learn a thing or two from the internet. We don't bother to gain any knowledge about a living, breathing critter until we are faced with tragedy. And then we start blaming pet stores? emergency room doctors? Ok, on the breeder, she should have her license lifted. 

And I can understand why she would meet you away from home. Some people do not want to bring people to their homes because the conditions are poor. Some people don't want the aggravation of folks calling down the law on them for ordinary conditions, which happens on occasion. Some people do not want strangers to come to their home for safety reasons, and I get that. But you have to do better than a pet store! Sometimes we meet people half-way because of the distance. I've done that a few times. Not the end of the world. But not at a pet store OR a rest stop. Because, as I've explained, if the pups have had a parvo/distemper shot at 6-7 weeks old, they may not be covered at all. 

The pups _could_ have picked up parvo at their vaccination location. I'm sure it happens. I was in the vet's office with a litter of pups and I heard them talking to the people in the next room about parvo. I was dying. They came in and said, we are going to get you out the back way. I was sweating bullets. It's not airborne. So the puppy has to touch something the other puppy shed disease on, but it is still very scary.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Thanks Selzer... I honestly hadn't a clue about the severity or contagious nature of this virus. In fact, silly me, I looked at the paper with the parvo vaccination and in my amateur mind figured, "Awesome! puppy has first vaccinations, ready to go!!!" Most of my dogs have been adult rescue dogs. I only ever had 1 puppy, and he didn't get sick.

Okay, I think that generally the public is as uneducated as I was. In fact, it would have been better if she hadn't done any vaccinations for me, because then I would have been weary. I'm kinda dumb, but not THAT dumb. No vaccination would have made me cautious. Anyway, no excuses, I should have been smarter. It was super dumb. And I'm not blaming Petsmart or Petco, just thinking of things that might save other people from going through this. 

Last night I messaged the breeder on Facebook (because that's her preferred means of communication - odd). My comment to her was, "My wife and I are devastated by what's happened to this puppy. Please don't sell Oliver's sister unless you give us first chance at getting her in case he doesn't make it, since she has the same confident, outgoing personality." And I said I thought it would be fair if she gave her to us for her cost, including the cost of boarding her until after she has her last shots plus a month. 

Her reply was, "The puppy didn't have parvo when you took him." And she said, "You took him to Petsmart the next day." (Actually, the next evening, which was about 36 hours prior to him getting sick. That is true, and I'm still kicking myself for doing that -- but I didn't realize that he was not protected -- call me an idiot, I accept the criticism.) I told her, none of the vets that I spoke to think that the puppy didn't have parvo prior to picking him up. She just ignored me and basically implied that for another thousand, his sister is mine. Wow, and I thought I was being pleasant and accommodating. 

As for Oliver, we just left the hospital and we opted to leave him in for another day. What's another thousand. I didn't need that tooth implant this year anyway. Screw it. 
His bp is low, and he's not eating, but he's doing better and his bp is within normal range, just low. It seems to me that he's going to make it. He even tried to jump out of the kennel when the vet tech took the picture, which is exactly what I would expect from him.

Sorry the picture is sideways... but you get the point.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Awww puppy  I will keep you in my prayers that he makes it. Sorry you had to get your parvo education this way. And this does NOT sound like a good breeder at all. Again sorry you are learning the hard way. Many do, don't be ashamed. Sharing education with others you know are shopping, and sharing your story here so that others shopping for a pup will read it all helps.

My little pit mix Ruger came from a litter where 2 nearly died from parvo. They both made it. One was affected more severely than the other. They think they got it from the vaccine that the rescue down south bought from a tractor supply. It is a live virus vaccine, and apparently from what I was told if the vial is allowed to get too warm in temp, the virus it contains can become "live enough" to actually cause the disease. It is what I was told anyway, I have not researched it to back it up with fact. Sounds plausible though. His litter never left the foster parents house and there were no other unvaccinated dogs there. They came down with it at I believe 12 weeks few days after the shot. I had to keep him quarantined in my house and yard only until time passed and he was cleared. The vet had me bring him in through the back door and in a carrier. Wheich is the right thing to do.

Anyway he is fine, his littermates are all fine (he is 16 months old now)

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Iamtomisbehave (Mar 18, 2018)

Hi,

I just wanted to chime in here briefly. Not trying to start a war or anything but I did want to point out that the other 8 puppies are completely fine and that the breeder met you at Petclub not Petco. I am not sure that it really matters but facts are facts. 
The pups from this litter regularly come over to my house for play dates - and I own your boys sister.

I am very sorry that green collar boy is ill but I am extremely doubtful that it is the breeders fault. Or anyone else's fault really. Parvo is extremely bad in the Phoenix area because it does not get cold enough here to kill it. It can live in the soil for over a year if the soil is not treated and live on surfaces in your house for months. You will need to bleach your house and your yard if you plan on getting another puppy within a year.

I have known people who have lost their pups to parvo when the puppy had never left their own property - it is just that bad here. It his often and it hits fast. I truly hope Green boy pulls through - he was one of my favourites from the litter. If you need advice on how to disinfect your house please feel free to message me about it! we have dealt with it before when we were living in Buckeye (about six years ago) and it is quite the chore.

Beth


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Iamtomisbehave said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just wanted to chime in here briefly. Not trying to start a war or anything but I did want to point out that the other 8 puppies are completely fine and that the breeder met you at Petclub not Petco. I am not sure that it really matters but facts are facts.
> The pups from this litter regularly come over to my house for play dates - and I own your boys sister.
> ...


no war started but i have never heard of a breeder meeting at a petco like place.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Pet club, Pet Co, PetsMart -- not a place for baby puppies who are very susceptible to Parvo. 

Part of why a breeder can charge more than your typical my-dog-had-puppies-you-want-one-breeder, is because they educate their buyers. Parvo is NOT that prevalent up here in Ohio, because we DO have winter here, but you better believe I tell people NOT to stop at the pet store on the way home, and NOT to stop at rest areas to potty the puppy, and I tell them why. 

I have never dealt with Parvo, yet. And I never want to. But I do know that you need a concentration of bleach to kill the virus, and you need to lay it on floors and surfaces that might have been in contact with the puppy or with your shoes, and leave it on for 10 minutes and then rinse. Your pup should be immune if he pulls through. I am sure you can find the right concentration for bleach/water on the internet. 

Good luck. I hope your baby makes it, this disease is devastating. Poor little guy.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Iamtomisbehave said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just wanted to chime in here briefly. Not trying to start a war or anything but I did want to point out that the other 8 puppies are completely fine and that the breeder met you at Petclub not Petco. I am not sure that it really matters but facts are facts.
> The pups from this litter regularly come over to my house for play dates - and I own your boys sister.
> ...



Wasn't this the oops litter born to the female that had been bounced all over and was supposedly spayed but not? 

And while I appreciate your defense of your friend, most knowledgeable breeders barely like taking pups to vet clinics, they don't do pet stores. I'm sorry but I am not buying that this pup was infected and got sick within 3 days. And offering another pup for $1000 is just heartless. That price for this litter is out of line to start with. And I sincerely hope that the buyers were informed of the same sex aggression potential.


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## CAROLINM (Mar 30, 2018)

To the OP, my sister and I have you and your puppy in our prayers tonight. We went through this three weeks ago with a 4 month old puppy with full set of vaccination and never touching the floor at Petco (according to our vet a really weird case, bad luck). We were so aware of Parvo that my family and I cleaned our shoes after coming from outside everytime and did not visit parks since he was here. We were also given the 50/50 chances (my puppy had only one diarrhea and three vomits, no blood anywhere) . It was the worst night after hearing the 50/50. We were also told the same thing about the incubation period 10-15 days prior (except for one of the vets at the clinic, she said that when the virus is really really strong he can show symptoms in two or three days).



Our dog, Odham stayed three nights at the vet clinic, and then he went home as a crazy and hungry puppy. I live in Sonora in Mexico (south to Arizona), and it is because of the weather that the virus never dies here. By the way, you need to disinfect and use bleach around everything (even his toys and plates). 



I can not tell you it is okay and that everything is okay, but we will keep you, your family and your beautiful Oliver in our prayers.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

When going to look at max when a young pup we were given instructions not to visit and pet stores along the way due to picking up anything that may bring to a litter of pups. I hope your pup is on the mend soon!


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

I wanted to give an update on Oliver: He's still at the hospital. I don't want to tell you the cost, but he's just hitting his 4th day in the hospital and it looks like he won't be coming home tomorrow either. 

Many people would think I am completely insane to spend that kind of money on a puppy I owned for 3 days, but I just cannot let this little guy go out without giving him every chance. He is a jewel, regardless of his breeding. He's probably so-so in terms of pedigree, I know I paid too much, but who cares. What he lacks in pedigree he makes up for in personality and charm. And by the way, the doctors and nurses all know why I won't let him go -- because they all love him too now. He really touches everyone he gets a chance to know. 

Regarding the breeder, I never mentioned her name nor did I give specifics. Nor did I even blame the breeder. I just thought it would be generous of her to be more supportive, if Oliver didn't make it, and consider letting me get the sister at her cost, including boarding, since I would not be able to take her home right away. I'm sure she's not rich and depends on breeding for part of her income. 

Also, someone is in here is defending her. Why bother? I am not calling her out by name. I just want my puppy to make it, and I don't want others to have to go through this. I'm not rich either. I'm paying this out of a home equity loan that I was trying to pay off. That won't be happening soon now. 

Oh well, hopefully Oliver will be out of the hospital Thursday. That will be 4 days of intensive hospitalization and a week since he got sick. I cannot even fathom that he might not make it now.

His blood pressure is low/stable, they put a feeding tube in to both drain out the toxins and add nutrients back to his stomach. The doctor said it was VERY VERY VERY good that we did that feeding tube because he was full of stomach acid I guess. He apparently also ate a rock at some point but it's small. It is the sort of thing he would do because everything he sees is a toy, I mean virtually EVERYTHING, no matter what it is, it's a toy, but the doctor said not to worry about it at this point because it's small.

Thank you everyone for supporting Oliver. I just have a strong feeling that he'll make it if I just let the doctors continue treating him long enough.


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## Hellish (Jul 29, 2017)

My heart goes out to him, and to you for hanging in there with him. All good thoughts your way.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

markhenley said:


> I wanted to give an update on Oliver: He's still at the hospital. I don't want to tell you the cost, but he's just hitting his 4th day in the hospital and it looks like he won't be coming home tomorrow either.
> 
> Many people would think I am completely insane to spend that kind of money on a puppy I owned for 3 days, but I just cannot let this little guy go out without giving him every chance. He is a jewel, regardless of his breeding. He's probably so-so in terms of pedigree, I know I paid too much, but who cares. What he lacks in pedigree he makes up for in personality and charm. And by the way, the doctors and nurses all know why I won't let him go -- because they all love him too now. He really touches everyone he gets a chance to know.
> 
> ...


 do not care about his pedigree unless you want to breed and i have a feeling you do not soo dont worry. hopefully he will pull thru and you will move on from this to the land shark stage and the pooping in the house stage. money sometime is a breaking point, you do have to do a budget and make sure you do not go into debt over this.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

https://www.avianax.com/animal-health really!!!!! this would be a sweet thing if it actually turns out to work.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

markhenley said:


> I wanted to give an update on Oliver: He's still at the hospital. I don't want to tell you the cost, but he's just hitting his 4th day in the hospital and it looks like he won't be coming home tomorrow either.
> 
> Many people would think I am completely insane to spend that kind of money on a puppy I owned for 3 days, but I just cannot let this little guy go out without giving him every chance. He is a jewel, regardless of his breeding. He's probably so-so in terms of pedigree, I know I paid too much, but who cares. What he lacks in pedigree he makes up for in personality and charm. And by the way, the doctors and nurses all know why I won't let him go -- because they all love him too now. He really touches everyone he gets a chance to know.
> 
> ...



Listen, I have a dog here that I lovingly refer to as my genetic nightmare. She could not be any worse breeding. I did not pay for her, but boy oh boy have I paid! Her vet bills in the first year forced me to work 3 jobs! At one point I got a payday loan to get her in to see a specialist who thought they could help, don't do that by the way! I have a credit card JUST for her. I cannot count the number of times I have been told to put her down. I said the night I got her that as long as she kept trying so would I, and I have kept that promise for almost 8 years.
I am pleased to hear he is hanging in there and I hope he gets better soon!

I get it, maybe better then some. But no one on this forum would find fault with doing anything to save a dog.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Imho having a strong sense of faith that he will pull through is probably tipping that 50/50 scale. I hope this is so.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

As for going into debt over trying to save the life of your puppy, well, I can think of a lot worse things people go into debt over every day. If we can get him through this, it will be worth every penny. If he doesn't make it, well. life is full of regrets and I just as soon not have one of them be regretting not having given a treatment that might have saved the pup because of the cost. 

Sometimes folks do have to make life-decisions for their dogs based on their ability to afford treatment. This is not something to admonish people for or judge them. If we are not in that position, we should think, "but for the grace of God, I..." 

And there are folks out there who have plenty of money for treatment, but don't think it is a good use for the funds. Those folks, if I know, I just steer clear of. I am not going to be able to shame them into changing their stripes. We'll never see eye to eye, unless maybe they get thrown over by a lightning bolt, struck blind, and Jesus appears to tell them every wrong thing they have ever done. 

At the end of the day, money is just money and can never be anything but. The puppy, well a happy, well cared for pup that is beloved, they are priceless.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I hope the pup pulls through.

I tried to research this, but just thought I'd ask. Can a pup get parvo from a modified live virus vaccine?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Muskeg said:


> I hope the pup pulls through.
> 
> I tried to research this, but just thought I'd ask. Can a pup get parvo from a modified live virus vaccine?


I was told yes, by my rescue and their vet. My pit mix came from a parvo litter where only some pups were affected and they were all together..went from a dumpster at like 2 weeks old, to vet, to foster care with no other dogs. Never left the property. Foster bought parvo vax from a tractor supply store down south. They became ill after the 2nd parvo shots. Only some. All pulled through.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

https://www.vetinfo.com/parvo-vaccine-options.html

" When it comes to immunizing your dog against Parvovirus, there are several parvo vaccine options to be considered. These variations are necessary in order to effectively immunize puppies and dogs against parvo.

Parvovirus
Parvovirus or parvo is a viral disease that attacks rapidly dividing cells like those in the digestive tract and developing white blood cells. Parvovirus primarily affects puppies and adolescent dogs because their immune system is still developing. While puppies do obtain some of their mother's immunities through the consumption of cholostrum milk (the milk the mother initially produces for the puppies that contains her antibodies) there is a problem with the mother's immunities to parvo and the immunizing puppies against the disease. When a puppy receives his immunization against parvo, for whatever reason, the mother's antibodies against parvo render the immunization ineffective, leaving the puppy vulnerable to the disease.

Parvo Vaccine Options
When trying to prevent parvo, there are vaccine options that a veterinarian takes into consideration when determining the specific treatment method.

Vaccine can be provided in a live and weakened state or in killed virus. In either instance, the virus is inactive.* Killed vaccine is less effective against maternal antibodies and so is not recommended for use on puppies.* Killed vaccine also has several stabilizing agents in it, more frequently causing vaccination reactions than the live vaccine. Killed vaccine is only recommended for dogs with questionable immune systems and only if they are adult dogs.

High titer vaccine is a vaccine that contains higher levels of the virus than in the standard vaccine. *When a puppy is immunized, the mother's antibodies bind to the virus in the vaccine to kill it. *With the high titer vaccine, there is still some of the virus left in the puppies system, stimulating the puppy's immune system to start producing its own antibodies to kill the weakened virus. Puppy vaccinations are recommended every 2 to 4 weeks until the age of 16 weeks or until 20 weeks if the mother has been well vaccinated and her antibodies are at high levels.
from https://www.vetinfo.com/parvo-vaccine-options.html


Adult dogs are vaccinated with the standard parvo vaccine. The frequency of parvo vaccinations in adult dogs is dependent upon the veterinarian's preference and whether the dog is predisposed to parvo. Classically, the parvo vaccine is given once every year, but research is showing that most dogs only require revaccination every 3 years. Another factor affecting when to revaccinate is breed predisposition to parvo. Breeds such as Rottweilers, Doberman Pinschers and American Pit Bull Terriers tend to be predisposed to the disease and many veterinarians are recommending vaccination every 6 months.

Whether starting puppy vaccinations or getting your adult dog revaccinated, your veterinarian is the best resource to determine how frequently and what type of vaccine to use with your dog. If you live in a region with a high incidence of parvo, your veterinarian may recommend annual vaccination in order to prevent infection. Parvo is a hardy disease and currently there is no cure for it and only supportive measures such as rehydration and providing comfort for the puppy or dog are the standard treatment. Use of the appropriate vaccine will help your dog avoid contracting parvovirus and will help prevent the spread of this disease."

Above bolding by me to explain to Cometdog how an initial vaccination might not cover a puppy because the mothers antibodies inactivated it.

Related Links: See upper right side of linked page:
Parvo Shots for Puppies
Treating Canine Parvovirus With Recombitek C4
Puppy Parvo Prevention Tips
Infectious Diseases of Dogs - Parvovirus
Dog Parvo Diagnosis with PCR


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

That is interesting. My dog from the "parvo litter" where 2 got and rest did not...they were under 2 weeks old..possibly one week old..and thrown in a dumpster in a shopping bag. So who knows how much Dam time they had. They were rescued and then hand bottle fed formula. If they had a low antibody load due to leaving mom at 1 to 2 weeks old..would makes sense if the partially killed virus made some of them sick. The 2 that got sick did so at about 12 weeks.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

The one thing that everyone forgets about parvo is the *indirect* transmission. You don't need to take the puppy anywhere, it can be spread by another animal or a human OR AN OBJECT! 

And the part that makes it so difficult to stop is the sheer resilience of the virus itself. It is impervious to natural temperatures and the only virus we have ever found that can live in excess of one year outside a host. 

A breeder careless enough to take puppies to a pet store could easily have allowed or caused transmission. No one is exactly clear on why some pups develop symptoms and some don't, but I can almost guarantee that symptoms or not the rest of the litter are shedding the virus. 

Back in the 80's and 90's the death rate from parvo was estimated at in excess of 90% if symptoms developed. There was also some studies that pointed to the fact that dams who had survived it would in fact produce pups immune to it. That may have been disproven, but I can say I do not know of any bitch surviving parvo that has produced any pups that have gotten it.



OP please continue to update us on your little guys progress. We are all pulling for him.


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## kelbonc (Aug 25, 2014)

My heart goes out to you and your pup. What a terrible experience. Sending positive thoughts for a full recovery.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sabis mom said:


> The one thing that everyone forgets about parvo is the *indirect* transmission. You don't need to take the puppy anywhere, it can be spread by another animal or a human OR AN OBJECT!
> 
> .


Exactly. there is a reason breeders don't allow people on their property when there are puppies. There is a reason there is a tub with bleach water to dip shoes outside the kennels.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi Everyone - I wanted to update you on Oliver. He was still not ready to go home this morning, but we found a hospital that will allow us to take him home during the night and return him to be hooked up to the IV in the day. 

Maybe I should have done that Monday, but to be honest, I think he required the intense treatment that he got in the emergency hospital. They are the ones that adjusted his medicine hour by hour to get his PB up, administered the feeding tube, and gave him sever special medicines that the other hospital doesn't even have. In fact, when I brought him over this morning they recommended that I take him back to Blue Perl (I couldn't believe they recommended that).

But, I told them that I trusted them and let's see if it works. 

I have my fingers crossed because an hour ago they called my wife and said he had eaten a teaspoon of food!!!!!!!!!!!! That's the first food he's eaten in days. 

My wife and daughter are picking him up in a few minutes and we'll keep him over night. Then we'll take him back in the morning. 

I don't think we're out of the woods yet, but it looks like maybe we're getting close. 

He cried all the way from Blue Perl to the other hospital. My wife played it on facetime. It wasn't a yelp or because of pain or anything, he was just talking about what a horrible experience he was having. Clearly he was talking more than crying. In a way it was good because it showed that he still had plenty of spark in him, but it was also very sad because you could really tell what he was saying, that he wants this to be over.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

Poor baby, still so very sick. I hope he manages to pull through!


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Thanks for the update. I was wondering how he was doing. I'm glad that he gets to stay with you at night. Hope he gets to come home full time soon.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Make sure you have cleaned everything and disposed of all bedding and toys!

Glad to hear that he is showing some improvement and gets to spend time with you.


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## CAROLINM (Mar 30, 2018)

markhenley said:


> Hi Everyone - I wanted to update you on Oliver. He was still not ready to go home this morning, but we found a hospital that will allow us to take him home during the night and return him to be hooked up to the IV in the day.
> 
> Maybe I should have done that Monday, but to be honest, I think he required the intense treatment that he got in the emergency hospital. They are the ones that adjusted his medicine hour by hour to get his PB up, administered the feeding tube, and gave him sever special medicines that the other hospital doesn't even have. In fact, when I brought him over this morning they recommended that I take him back to Blue Perl (I couldn't believe they recommended that).
> 
> ...



The fact that he is eating is a really good thing. We will keep praying for your family and your Oliver. He will get better.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> Sabis mom said:
> 
> 
> > The one thing that everyone forgets about parvo is the *indirect* transmission. You don't need to take the puppy anywhere, it can be spread by another animal or a human OR AN OBJECT!
> ...


I was thinking the same thing. I know 2 very reputable golden breeders and they do the bleach feet thing when they are litters dropped.


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## Sandyherman (Apr 24, 2018)

Oh my. My heart just broke reading this post! I am optimistic your baby will survive, but what an awful experience! Good luck to you, I hope your pup is home with you soon! By the way, I think your experience and your honesty on this forum will help others who also are not knowledgeable on this horrible illness. GOD bless!


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

It is called biosecurity and is much used in the livestock world. Even feed trucks have to drive through disinfectant vats on the way into farms.

I agree with the puppy needing Intensive Care. They have ways to make them live. As the ICU nurses say, if someone kicks the bucket in the ICU, God wants them in heaven. That the puppy is well enough to go home with you at night to get Vitamin L (love) this is a great thing. Don't let him get riled up trying to play, let him rest.


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## Tweetysvoice (May 7, 2018)

I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about parvo because of this thread. Thank you so very much for sharing your story as heartbreaking it is and I really do hope that you and the pup recover quickly! Please keep us going with the updates! How did it go over night?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Any update? How is pup?


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi Everyone -

Here is the latest on Oliver. We have been taking him during the day to the animal hospital to be hooked up to IVs and monitored, along with getting anti-nausea medication, etc. Yesterday evening they decided to remove the feeding tube and now he's only got the IV in him. We're going to take him back in a couple of hours to for a follow-up, but I don't think he'll be staying in during the day. 

He is only marginally eating. I can tell that his stomach is still upset. He will eat a few liver treats, maybe 2 to 5 of them. My wife thinks this is wrong, and that he should eat food, but hey, I'll go for whatever works. But after a few, he really doesn't even want more of those. He shy's away from the bland, canned food from the vet. Maybe he was tired of having it shoved in his face all the time. We have him on some pills to settle his stomach, but maybe the vet can give him another shot.

He was pretty active at about 4:30 this morning and wanted to play with our older dog (who was completely not interested is playing). I think Oliver has "turned the corner" on this, but now just has to recuperate. He is constantly giving off small whimpers, as if he's attempting to have a dialog about how he feels and what he thinks we should be doing. He's fairly good at getting his point across. He is getting back to his old self, analyzing everything he sees, picking stuff up (our door frame had some rotted wood that fell out, and he picked that up and was carrying it around). So assuming he will eat some food and not rocks or pieces of wood, he should get better. 

I wonder how long this upset stomach will last? I really want him to start eating. The videos and blogs that I read said once they turn the corner they go crazy eating. He just seems to be a little hungry.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

That's great news! I'm so glad to hear he's getting better!


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

So glad he is more active now and the feeding tube is out!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Have you tried plain raw meat like hamburger, raw green tripe to remind him of 'food'? Very small amounts many times a day. Poor little one.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Of course with your vets approval - but I make batches of bone broth. My dog LOVES it, especially in the winter when it's warmed up after hiking. I also think it's good for nutrients when the gut is a wreck. Think about how chicken noodles soup makes us feel when we're under the weather.


I also bought bone broth from this company. 


https://nuggetshealthyeats.com/


So glad to hear this little one is improving. What a awful ordeal.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

He is going to hate any vet he has to see.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> Have you tried plain raw meat like hamburger, raw green tripe to remind him of 'food'? Very small amounts many times a day. Poor little one.


I'll ask the vet. I tried cooked hamberger but he didn't want it. He resting now.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Goats milk. Bone broth. I’d try those. 
Glad he’s doing better.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Big yes to the goat's milk from me! 

If you can't find goat's milk at your local market, the Honest Kitchen makes an instant one called "Pro Bloom" that's loaded with probiotics and enzymes. Reconstitute it with non-chlorinated water (filtered or bottled). 

https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/pro-bloom

It's often the first thing I can get into a very sick dog. I can find quarts of goat's milk at natural food stores too.You can even soak his kibble in it, or splash it over his bland vet food. * (Do not substitute cow's milk -- dog's cannot digest that well.)*

If you can't make bone broth, Primal and some other manufacturers sell it frozen, in packets. I spotted this new product at a local store specializing in raw. 

I would not feed raw meat to him yet. His GI system is thoroughly trashed, so he probably can't fight off and pass through the routine salmonella or other bacteria in raw meat the way a healthy dog does. He could end up with a secondary infection. (I just had to treat a couple of rescue pups that were infected with camphylo and clostridium -- it's an expense you definitely don't want after all this!)

Instead, I would bake him meat balls: 9 parts hamburger to 1 part minced organ meat (kidney and liver would be ideal, but do liver alone if you can't find kidney at your local stores), fresh eggs, and oats. There's no magic to the recipe, just make meat balls that hold together, and bake them covered at around 400. Time depends on the size of them (check at 20 min.). 

The smell of cooked organ meat is an appetite stimulant for most dogs. The cooked liver is the magic ingredient in these. Serve them warm (reheat in the microwave as needed), so that the steam brings the scent to the pup's nose. Scent is a huge part of creating appetite in dogs!

You can also offer him some scrambled egg with no seasoning. Egg tends to be very easy to digest, and very appetizing. 

None of these suggestions are complete meals, but they may get him eating, which is half the battle right now. Once he starts eating, he'll get stronger.

If you want to try tripe, buy the canned version.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Small meals, frequently. 
Parvo absolutely saps their systems. It can take a long time to get them back to 100%.

Here is a quick and easy fix for lack of appetite that usually works for me. Freeze dried treats, liver or chicken or whatever he goes nuts for, will grind to a powder with just your fingers. I sprinkle it over their food, add hot water to get a stronger fragrance going and 90% of the dogs I have done this with will eat. It works well with that icky bland vet food and you are not upsetting his diet with such a minimal amount. One piece is all it takes.
Scent is huge for stimulating a dogs appetite, so heating or adding hot water will often get them going. Even if you can just get a few spoonfuls into him every hour or two his appetite will gradually return.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

So sorry your pup is sick. Glad to hear he is getting better.

I've found that meat baby food is pretty irresistible to dogs who aren't feeling well. Mine prefer the chicken. It's easy to mix with other foods, and if they will eat a small jar of baby food it will sometimes stimulate their appetite and they may eat something else in addition.

Sending good thoughts for the recovery of your little one.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

cooked chicken is doggy crack for my girls.


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## CAROLINM (Mar 30, 2018)

markhenley said:


> I'll ask the vet. I tried cooked hamberger but he didn't want it. He resting now.



Our puppy had a weird "three-day-Parvo" while fully vaccinated three weeks ago, he went crazy for food just after.... Just wait for him to feel better, according to our vet the first 72 hours are the hardest with this virurs, yet you have to keep your eyes open for anything from him.... but our vet sent us home with Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal High Energy Dog (wet food), my puppy is four months not sure if that changes things a little, and he also instructed us to give him chicken broth (cooked with chicken breast with no bone and no fat, and no condiments not even salt). Both things worked really well with him. But ask your vet.

Right now he is as good as new, and eating as crazy like he did before going through this. 

Still praying for your puppy.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi Everyone -

I'm still trying to get Oliver to eat. He is definitely feeling better, but is not really interested in food yet. He will eat 4 to 10 liver treats ever few hours, but that's about it. I've been trying a few items based on feedback from the group here. 

I tried baby food, but no joy there (beef and broth - they didn't have liver or lamb). He just turned his nose up at that. At the vet, he showed interest in a can of Royal Canin, which we got, but once we got home, no luck on that either. I even tried a piece of cooked steak off the bbq, and he just backed away. 

I picked up a femur bone at the store and i'm trying the "bone broth soup". I started boiling it at around 1 PM, it's 7 now. I can see the water is is getting thicker and I continue adding water to it. My 9 year old GSD is VERY excited about all the rejected food, since she gets to eat it, and she is super pumped about the bone broth soup. She tried to take the bone out of my hand when I was making the soup. Apparently she is immune to parvo, as the vet said she would be, since we've be vaccinating her for years (thank GAWD for that). I put a pic of my bi-color girl. She's not really happy about having the puppy around, she seems kind of irritated, but he really loves her and cries trying to go to see her. I was trying to coax him into eating by showing him her eating from my hand, but that was a fail (for him anyway).

I guess I'll let the bones boil until morning. Maybe the puppy will like that. It's worth a try. He turned his nose up at it after a 2 hour boil. I hope it gets better after 16 hours of boil. I'll have about a gallon of this stuff when I'm done. I'll try that in the morning. 

Not that it's real exciting, but his poo isn't water now. That's a plus.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Courtney said:


> Of course with your vets approval - but I make batches of bone broth. My dog LOVES it, especially in the winter when it's warmed up after hiking. I also think it's good for nutrients when the gut is a wreck. Think about how chicken noodles soup makes us feel when we're under the weather.
> 
> 
> I also bought bone broth from this company.
> ...


Yup, I'm giving that a go... per your recommendation. Wow, what a pain in the arse


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

CAROLINM said:


> Our puppy had a weird "three-day-Parvo" while fully vaccinated three weeks ago, he went crazy for food just after.... Just wait for him to feel better, according to our vet the first 72 hours are the hardest with this virurs, yet you have to keep your eyes open for anything from him.... but our vet sent us home with Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal High Energy Dog (wet food), my puppy is four months not sure if that changes things a little, and he also instructed us to give him chicken broth (cooked with chicken breast with no bone and no fat, and no condiments not even salt). Both things worked really well with him. But ask your vet.
> 
> Right now he is as good as new, and eating as crazy like he did before going through this.
> 
> Still praying for your puppy.




Honey, your pup may have had any number of gastro intestinal issues but it did not have parvo. This is not a virus pups just walk away from. It does not just come and go like a polite little bug in a few hours. Some pups take months to recover, some have life long issues as a result of it. I have had more exposure to this virus then enough. It's a killer. Without intervention it has a 100% mortality rate. 

And none of your dogs food should ever have condiments, especially salt!


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Please scroll down and see What happens during infection. It really tears up the the digestive system lining. https://www2.vet.cornell.edu/depart...t-us/animal-health-articles/canine-parvovirus

If the baby dog doesn't want to eat it may be that his digestive system just needs to rest and heal. That he no longer has diarrhea shows his tummy can now absorb water. IMO it would be a good thing to not go overboard on the liver treats. Also, it keeps him from being developing an appetite for real food. It is a good thing he is going to the vet every day to be evaluated and weighed.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Nurse Bishop's post just reminded me of another thing I'd offer this puppy: colostrum. This one is a good one (certified 6-hour): 

https://www.amazon.com/Immune-Tree-...=1529786267&sr=8-1&keywords=colostrum+cornell


I'd put a scoop in to mix with goat milk or bone broth, or even (non-chlorinated) water. Most dogs LOVE the taste. It helps with nutrition absorption and gut healing, and it's excellent for the immune system.
https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/7_1/features/Canine-Immune-System_5601-1.html
Bovine Colostrum: Natures Forgotten Miracle
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/18b2/9c1c812f26288a03b82a61e7fc13c7789888.pdf


This article mentions that it reportedly aids the gut epitheleum in puppies:
https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/134/8/2126S/4688895


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## CAROLINM (Mar 30, 2018)

Sabis mom said:


> Honey, your pup may have had any number of gastro intestinal issues but it did not have parvo. This is not a virus pups just walk away from. It does not just come and go like a polite little bug in a few hours. Some pups take months to recover, some have life long issues as a result of it. I have had more exposure to this virus then enough. It's a killer. Without intervention it has a 100% mortality rate.
> 
> And none of your dogs food should ever have condiments, especially salt!





My puppy did have intervention. He was at the clinic for those three days. Still I think you do not say it with bad intention, I honestly dont want to think my vet fool us or something, but many people think as you do (even my dad says he probably did not have it). We had a rescued puppy when I was 7, several years ago, and I did saw her die of parvo and it was not nice, so I was really scare with the diagnosis and did not want to risk our pup... But as someone told in a different thread, I will ask for his blood sample to be "titered" (still not sure about the non literal translation for such word). 



None of my dogs have ever had food with salt. In fact we almost never have condiments at my house (I have been raised by a vegetarian mother who loves organic and all natural stuff who still hides the salt from my dad). We might go raw with Odham at some point later this year, but still thinking about it cause we live in a really hot city, and his stomach might struggle with the change.


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## unfortunatefoster (Dec 17, 2017)

Magwart is spot on with the colostrum. His intestines are devoid of all the good bacteria. He'll be eating you out of house and home in no time. Be patient, parvo takes time to recover from, even after the major threat is gone. Hugs to him. Be aware that he will continue to shed the virus, up to a month or so after recovery, so be careful where you take him so as not to 'share the joy'.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Magwart said:


> Nurse Bishop's post just reminded me of another thing I'd offer this puppy: colostrum. This one is a good one (certified 6-hour):
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Immune-Tree-...=1529786267&sr=8-1&keywords=colostrum+cornell
> 
> ...


I have an appointment with the vet again today, so I'll ask him.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi Everyone –

It looks like Oliver is going to make it, at least from the point of having Parvo. I want to thank everyone who has given us support through this nightmare experience. We are grateful for all the helpful information. 

I’m not sure how many people will read this post, but I wanted to give a summary of our experience in case it might help others who are facing this wicked virus.

Before I do that, however, let me tell you how Oliver is doing. He’s eating Deli Chicken (the kind you buy at the store that’s already cooked). That seems to be something his stomach will tolerate. I’m not sure when his appetite will return, but I guess it’s Deli Chicken until then… lol. Anyway, he is playful, curious and following us around. Saving this little puppy was important. We could see when we first met him that he was rather special. He is a fearless puppy. Today I was out working in the yard, cutting some bushes with an electric cutter and spraying off the walk in the back yard. Oliver stayed right next to me the entire time, at my feet, in spite of the noise, dust and branches flying around. It’s just the kind of behavior you want in a German Shepherd Dog: confident, curious, no fear, walking right by your side without hesitation. We saw that in him right away. We knew he was a special creature and he didn’t deserve to die, and that’s why we had to save him. 

Here are some lessons learned: 

1.	I had NO IDEA that Parvo was so prevalent and so contagious. I have owned 4 GSDs in my adult life and 5 dogs. In all, I have had 2 puppies including Oliver. Parvo was something that was never mentioned to me by either breeder. I have read a LOT of literature on German Shepherd Dogs, but only knew about Parvo peripherally. I had heard of it but didn’t have the specifics. It simply wasn’t on my radar at all. 

I suggest that if you’re getting a puppy, if it has been exposed in any way to public places, that you avoid the breeder and the puppy for at least 12 days, which appears to be the maximum incubation time for Parvo in a dog according to the literature. Typical time appears to be 7 days. We succumbed to “puppy enchantment” upon seeing Oliver. Don’t put yourself through that. Instead, just say, “In 12 days I’ll drive to your location and see the puppies.”

I suggest also that if the breeder won’t let you see their location, just avoid them all together. 

2.	Health Guarantee – what does that mean? In hindsight, I should have asked, “I agree to not take this puppy to any potentially contaminated area for 12 days. If it comes down with Parvo, what will you do?”

If the breeder pretends the puppy cannot get Parvo, or if they say they would euthanize the puppy, or if they’ll do nothing, then I would walk away. If they say they’ll pay all or half the cost, then I would get it in writing. If this seems unreasonable, read the next part. 

3.	Parvo is expensive, VERY, VERY expensive. This is a summary of costs:

Day (3), 8 PM, Paid $1000 for Oliver, our new puppy
Day (2) – Happy Puppy, play, play, play 
Day (1) – Happy Puppy, play, play, play
Day 0 – Parvo: Visit to Emergency Room. Test, exam, medication, fluid under skin: $322.96 
Day 1 – Visit to Regular Vet. Bag of fluid, antibiotic injection, medication: $124.62
Day 2 – Regular Vet. Special food, exam: $32.26
Day 3 – Admitted to Hospital with vomiting and severe diarrhea: $1,280.27
Day 4 – Intensive care $1,261.00
Day 5 – Intensive care $1,131.85
Day 6 – Intensive care, feeding tube, x-rays, special meds to provide critical care: $2,017.39
Day 7,8,9 – Outpatient $1,417
Total Cost: $7,591.35
Parvo Cost: $6,591.35

4.	Most vets around here won’t take Parvo cases into their clinic. I called both of our regular vets and they all declined to take him, although they would see him by coming out to the car. I suggest you find an animal hospital that does take these cases before bringing your pup home. It doesn’t hurt to have a plan. All of the locations that take pets for 24 hour care are considered emergency and are expensive because they have a doctor, vet tech and staff all the time. There are a few places that will take them during the day and leave them unattended at night. 

It just takes a lot of money to maintain a hospital 24/7.

I struggled with whether or not to post this itemized list for a couple of reasons. I don’t know if someone reading this will just euthanize their pet immediately. On the other hand, maybe it won’t cost that much for every situation. I already had a home equity loan I was paying down. I just maxed it out. I can tell you that this is what it cost to save Oliver. Without spending this, he would have likely died. The doctor called me late in the day on day 6, after I had spent $2000 dollars, to tell me that Oliver’s blood pressure precarious and dropping, and they were taking extraordinary measures to keep him alive. I think the doctor was trying to prep us for Oliver’s death. The cost of the hospitalization was just a lot. I discussed this with the outpatient clinic that kept him on IVs during the day. The outpatient doctor actually wanted us to take him back to intensive care, that without minute by minute intervention, Oliver was at risk. But we felt that it would work and besides, we liked the idea that we could have him with us at night. 

Emergency Room:

Initially, we took Oliver to the emergency room thinking he had eaten something bad. The doctor walked in, looked at the pup and got this really sad, shake-of-the-head, almost far off look her in eyes. In hindsight, her expression now makes so much sense. She didn’t see a sick puppy on the table, she saw a dead puppy and I really think it bothered her. She told us, “We need to check this puppy for Parvo.”

I replied, “No way. This puppy was purchased from a reputable breeder.”

She said, “We need to check anyway.” She knew without even running the test, that he had Parvo.

“He can’t have Parvo," I insisted. "I will be SHOCKED if this puppy has parvo,” I ranted on and on.

The hospital practices triage of course, so we sat for 3 hours waiting for the 8 minute test results. My wife was steaming by the time the doctor finally returned.

The doctor came in and started feeling Oliver’s stomach. She didn’t say a word. I had been on my phone for 3 hours researching Parvo.

I told her, “Dogs have an 80% survival rate against Parvo.” 

She looked at me and said, “So you’re familiar with Parvo?” The look in her face told me to shut up and listen. 

I asked her if Oliver had it. She just kept working without saying a word, ignoring me. I kept pushing her. She continue ignoring me. Finally she put Oliver down and said, “I want you to listen to everything I have to say, then we can discuss what to do.”

I pressed her. She said, “We’ll get to the results in a moment.”

I wasn’t to be trifled with after waiting 3 hours. I demanded to know the results. She reluctantly said, “Yes, he tested positive for Parvo.”

Wow, we were in total shock. We did “everything” (whatever that is) right. We went to a “reputable breeder”, not a backyard breeder, not a pet-store, not a puppy mill. We had a recommendation for this breeder. I tracked her for a few weeks on AKC Marketplace. In our minds, this seemed impossible.

Then she started telling us the facts of this disease and as much as it pissed me off at the time, she was completely truthful and accurate. I just didn’t want to listen to what she had to say.

First she said, “Parvo is incurable. It’s a virus and you cannot use antibiotics to kill it. You can only treat the symptoms and keep the puppy alive so the puppy can develop antibodies.” She said, “We can treat Parvo dogs. We look at these dogs in one of three ways: We can admit them to the hospital. That would give Oliver the best chance to survive. It cost $2800 to admit him and that covers 2 days of treatment. There are no guarantees and no matter what we do, he might not be able to be saved.”

I felt that I had been punched in the face. “Option 2?” I asked.

She said we could do outpatient. In that case we place fluids under the skin. We give an anti-nausea medication, some medication to take home and you can see your regular vet in the morning.

And then she looked at us seriously, and rather darkly I might add. She said, “Listen, this is a very bad illness. We need to be realistic, these Parvo puppies suffer a lot. If you want to save Oliver, you either have to be all in, or you need to understand that this puppy will really suffer and it is cruel to let that happen.” She told us, “This is not your fault. You didn’t do this, the puppy came to you with Parvo.” She continued, “We see this all the time, from reputable breeders,” she said “reputable breeder,” acidly, with air quotes. “It takes 3 days of incubation and that’s rare. Parvo normally takes a week before you see symptoms. If you decide to euthanize this puppy, you shouldn’t feel that you caused this puppies death or it was your fault. This isn’t your fault,” she emphasized again. Clearly she wanted to make a point.

Well that speech just pissed me the f*** off all the more. I told her we’d take option 2. She looked at me with knowing eyes, which even made me angrier. I felt that she was patronizing me, that she was looking at me the same way a parent looks at a naive child about to make an obvious mistake. Little did I know of her laser guided accuracy, but in hindsight, she nailed it all the way. 

Okay, we ended up being: all-in, for this hellish experience. Throughout the entire ride we never were sure whether Oliver was actually going to pull through. Right up until day 8 it was possible that he could relapse. If he died after all of that investment, it would have been that much more traumatic. 

The reason I recount the emergency room experience is because I think that if I’d been more prepared for this, it might have been less stressful. I am recounting the discussion with the initial emergency room doctor as best I can, but those quotes are pretty **** accurate. Those words are etched in my mind. 

We left Oliver’s collar at the emergency room and we just picked it up an hour ago. My wife and I were taking Oliver for an appointment with our new regular vet (yes, on a Sunday – they are open 7 days) and we stopped off at the emergency room hospital on the way home. The doctor and receptionists all came out to pet Oliver and see how he was doing. They really grew and attachment to this puppy over the few days they worked on him. The doctor smoothed his face and laughed, “Now I have to go change my gloves.” 

I said, “That was a pretty close call.” 

She just nodded and told me, “This is how we *LIKE* to see it end.”

The next steps are: Oliver is in quarantine for 30 to 45 days. After that, we’re going to rip up the fake grass in the dog run, replace it, and deep soak the ground with Chlorine. We’re going to clean the house with Clorox and I’ve been spraying the ground with Clorox too. We have money down on another puppy in a year from a breeder who doesn’t show his pups at stores. We’ll need to ask him to kennel the pup until he/she has all shots, or maybe we'll just give up and get another rescue dog. 

My final thought is this: Treat your puppy with complete and utter paranoia – keep it away from everything, anyone with dogs, parks, grassy areas, stores until all shots are properly administered. I wouldn’t wish Parvo on my worst enemies. And if you’re a breeder, consider stashing some money away as a sickness fund. No family getting a new puppy should have to go through this. Call it a Parvo tax.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

I've been following this thread since your initial post and am SO glad to read how well Oliver is doing. You and your wife have been simply heroic throughout; kudos to you both. He's a very lucky boy that you chose him. I can't imagine what might have happened otherwise. And, thank you for detailing your experience. I think it will be extremely helpful for others who have the bad luck to go down that path. 

Keep posting pics of that adorable boy.

Aly


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Glad to hear he is getting better, and thanks for detailing everything so that others know. I am sorry that this happened to you, I would not wish this on anyone. I am very happy to hear that the vet was upfront and honest, if a bit brutal. 
I wish you had know the whole story, the real one, of this "breeder" beforehand. But it sounds like you got the pup you were looking for and that is amazing. I feel bad that you ended up spending thousands on this puppy that could have so easily been avoided. 
Hopefully this will be the start of many happy years together.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Our son's first pup had Parvo. From what he tells me, the rest of the litter died. Their dog is over 2 years old now and healthy and happy. It was terrible hearing what they went through. 

So glad Oliver is on the mend.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I'm so glad Oliver is doing better. What a sweetie. You and your family are wonderful for all you did for him!


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I don't even know you but I am proud of the way you handled this  I am very sorry you were put through this. Maybe I missed it, what was the breeder's final say? Oliver is beautiful and it sounds like he has the GSD temperament that we all want in our dogs. Please keep us posted on his progress. Looking forward to seeing happy puppy pics


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Thank you! This is an incredible documentation and description of deadly parvo virus and Oliver's miraculous survival with ICU care. This is so useful to future puppy owners to teach avoidance of the possibility of exposure. The way you explained everything, the doctor's demeanor, your emotional reactions so well described. Thank you so much for hanging in there. You do realize that now Oliver has a huge fan club and every detail of his upbringing and training will be relished by hundreds and hundreds of well wishers who sent healing energy and God's love.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So glad for you and for Oliver!!!


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Good to hear.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

CometDog said:


> I don't even know you but I am proud of the way you handled this  I am very sorry you were put through this. Maybe I missed it, what was the breeder's final say? Oliver is beautiful and it sounds like he has the GSD temperament that we all want in our dogs. Please keep us posted on his progress. Looking forward to seeing happy puppy pics


The breeder said that Oliver didn't have Parvo when I picked him up. True. I picked him up Monday night, and by Thursday noon he was getting sick. She also said I wanted an "outgoing puppy". I speculate that she felt it was somehow Oliver's fault that he got sick because he was too inquisitive. I have to admit, that comment threw me. We were discussing this on Facebook chat, her preferred method of discussion. 

At the time I didn't want to get on her bad side because I wanted something from her. I requested that if Oliver died (and it looked like he might for about 24 hours there on Monday night/Tuesday), if I could get the girl who was very similar to Oliver at her cost, and could she refrain from selling the girl until I had an opportunity to buy her. My wife was having a melt down about Oliver and I wanted an opportunity to lessen the trauma. But the breeder basically declined. She did say "I don't want to sound cruel, but it's not my fault." 

After that, I didn't really want to have any further discussions with her.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Thank you for the update. It is so good to read that he is home and recovering.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

markhenley said:


> The breeder said that Oliver didn't have Parvo when I picked him up. True. I picked him up Monday night, and by Thursday noon he was getting sick. She also said I wanted an "outgoing puppy". I speculate that she felt it was somehow Oliver's fault that he got sick because he was too inquisitive. I have to admit, that comment threw me. We were discussing this on Facebook chat, her preferred method of discussion.
> 
> At the time I didn't want to get on her bad side because I wanted something from her. I requested that if Oliver died (and it looked like he might for about 24 hours there on Monday night/Tuesday), if I could get the girl who was very similar to Oliver at her cost, and could she refrain from selling the girl until I had an opportunity to buy her. My wife was having a melt down about Oliver and I wanted an opportunity to lessen the trauma. But the breeder basically declined. She did say "I don't want to sound cruel, but it's not my fault."
> 
> After that, I didn't really want to have any further discussions with her.


I don't advocate breeder bashing, or anyone bashing for that matter, on social media. But in this case, IMHO you should copy the text from your post, #79, and post it for all to see! Nobody should ever have to go through this, and for a breeder to bring puppies at that age to a pet store of any kind...well, just let as many people know as you can! Oliver is one lucky boy, I have a feeling your time with this dog is going to transform you in ways you can't yet imagine!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

markhenley said:


> The breeder said that Oliver didn't have Parvo when I picked him up. True. I picked him up Monday night, and by Thursday noon he was getting sick. She also said I wanted an "outgoing puppy". I speculate that she felt it was somehow Oliver's fault that he got sick because he was too inquisitive. I have to admit, that comment threw me. We were discussing this on Facebook chat, her preferred method of discussion.
> 
> At the time I didn't want to get on her bad side because I wanted something from her. I requested that if Oliver died (and it looked like he might for about 24 hours there on Monday night/Tuesday), if I could get the girl who was very similar to Oliver at her cost, and could she refrain from selling the girl until I had an opportunity to buy her. My wife was having a melt down about Oliver and I wanted an opportunity to lessen the trauma. But the breeder basically declined. She did say "I don't want to sound cruel, but it's not my fault."
> 
> After that, I didn't really want to have any further discussions with her.


I am curious if you have any contact with other puppy owners who bought this litter. Honestly this whole situation has me steamed. Your pups mom has been bounced around something awful and basically by the sounds of it used as a puppy machine. To date she has been in 4 different homes at least, from what we were told, and this latest debacle is just the icing on the cake. At least you got your Oliver out of it. 
As to it not being her fault, well yes it is. At the very least she was negligent in her care and control of the pups, at worst she knew they had been exposed and didn't care. I will say again, there is almost no chance that your pup was exposed on Monday and sick by Thursday. One of the things that allows Parvo to spread so rampantly is the longer incubation time. No one remembers where their dog sniffed 7-10 days ago.
I'm kind of with Tim on this. We can't do much here except through messages, but if the name is kept out of it I see no reason you can't share other details. However, other online sites have no such issues and you better believe I would be using them! To say it's your/Oliver's fault because he is curious is just stupid. And tells me everything about her knowledge of the breed.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

Sabis mom said:


> I am curious if you have any contact with other puppy owners who bought this litter. Honestly this whole situation has me steamed. Your pups mom has been bounced around something awful and basically by the sounds of it used as a puppy machine. To date she has been in 4 different homes at least, from what we were told, and this latest debacle is just the icing on the cake. At least you got your Oliver out of it.
> As to it not being her fault, well yes it is. At the very least she was negligent in her care and control of the pups, at worst she knew they had been exposed and didn't care. I will say again, there is almost no chance that your pup was exposed on Monday and sick by Thursday. One of the things that allows Parvo to spread so rampantly is the longer incubation time. No one remembers where their dog sniffed 7-10 days ago.
> I'm kind of with Tim on this. We can't do much here except through messages, but if the name is kept out of it I see no reason you can't share other details. However, other online sites have no such issues and you better believe I would be using them! To say it's your/Oliver's fault because he is curious is just stupid. And tells me everything about her knowledge of the breed.


I have not contacted any of the other puppy owners, and I really don't want to. Here is what I ascertain from a number of private messages and feedback that I have received:

1. The woman really isn't interested in breeding any longer... so much the better.
2. Oliver is mixed between a working line GSD and show line. I think he has a lot of working line behavior (much like my other GSD that was American working line), but I can see distinct show line confirmation. It's an interesting combination. The working line mom does not have a OFA rating, but the show line does... I have my fingers crossed 
So it's my understanding this was an oopsie litter and wasn't expected. I've heard bad things happen when you cross working and show lines, but I hope that I get lucky there.
Oliver is very smart, a beautiful puppy who seems to love everyone and has no aggressive characteristics or fear. I like working with dogs, doing obedience and Rally, etc. I'm thinking based on what I see that the Parvo incident was just poor form on the part of the breeder, and I paid a financial and emotional price for that, in exchange for this puppy. 
I guess I just have to let it go... but it is a great lesson. I hope it benefits others.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

markhenley said:


> I hope it benefits others.


You have already; probably much more than you know. 

More pics please!

Aly


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm so glad you pulled him through this with good care! 

As you look toward the future, now that Oliver is okay, this is a good time to think about good pet insurance. These sorts of multi-thousand dollar bills seem to plague some dogs -- I have one of those dogs. There's a German word that doesn't have an English equivalent: "Pechvogel" (it literally means "bad luck bird" and describes someone who is unlucky). My dog is a Pechvogel, and he's cost his pet insurance company A LOT of money. Weird freaky accidents doing perfectly normal things, rare unexpected illnesses...they just happen to some of these dogs.

I'd get a Healthy Paws policy on Oliver before more pre-existing conditions can start. That's not a slight on him, but just an acknowledgment that his immune system and GI system suffered mightily already.


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## markhenley (Apr 23, 2018)

I will look into the Healthy Paws... It gave me a quote of $47. That looks pretty slim compared to the $6500 in vet bills I'm paying off


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Mark,
I've been following this thread and am so happy that your pup pulled through. Thank you for going the extra $$$$$ for him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

markhenley said:


> I will look into the Healthy Paws... It gave me a quote of $47. That looks pretty slim compared to the $6500 in vet bills I'm paying off



I am very happy with Healthy Paws. I consider it $38 well lost every month.


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