# Michigan Breeder Recommendations



## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

We are looking for furry companion for our family of 5. We live on the west side of the state near Grand Rapids and spend plenty of time hiking, boating, bike riding, etc - with the kids. Our yard is 1 acre with an 8ft fence, plenty of room for playing fetch or running agility on the various fixtures on the backyard - when we can't get out for a hike/walk/park run. 

I've read about working vs show - and I don't intend to compete nor do I feel strongly either way about 'which is better' - I'm more interested in making a responsible decision with picking the right breeder - to get the right pup for our family. 

Any recommendations / experience with breeders in MI would be greatly appreciated.


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

Forgot to mention we were currently looking at Wildhaus: (Wildhaus Kennels, Working German Shepherd Breeder in Michigan)

I've had them recommended and seen them mentioned on these forums before as well.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Besides Wildhaus, whom I highly recommend having known them and their dogs for close to 15 years, I would also talk to 

https://www.facebook.com/AusGerstbrei/

I am a working dog person, but I have spent a lot of time around Rebecca's dogs, many since they were puppies. She does a great foundation on them too before they go to their new homes.


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

I spoke with Josh from Rustic Retreat here in Grand Rapids today and it was a great conversation.

He had a few WL breeders he was going to recommend near Lansing - so I'm waiting to hear back from him on that.

Thanks for the help


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

Anyone have experience with Alta-Tollhaus here in MI? 

Alta-Tollhaus | Home of Awesome German Shepherd Dogs

I've seen their name around the forums as well the last few days of reading.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

yes, many of the dogs from the kennel train at Capital area Schutzund club in Charlotte. The club doesn't have a website. But it would be worth going there and observing training for a day or two. It isn't the normal 'club' atmosphere as it is a pay to train, so you'd see different groups throughout the day coming and going. Great supportive people training there, no drama.


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

onyx'girl said:


> yes, many of the dogs from the kennel train at Capital area Schutzund club in Charlotte. The club doesn't have a website. But it would be worth going there and observing training for a day or two. It isn't the normal 'club' atmosphere as it is a pay to train, so you'd see different groups throughout the day coming and going. Great supportive people training there, no drama.


Awesome! I'll make a few calls tomorrow and see if I can get something going next week. 

Thanks for all the help


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## lcordova (Jun 4, 2006)

Alta Tollhaus has very good reviews from many people in the forum. Show Lines.

Wildhaus also has excellent reviews and Chris is a moderator. Working Lines. For many of us here, a Wildhaus Dog is like a dream. 

You cant go wrong with any of those two.


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

lhczth said:


> Besides Wildhaus, whom I highly recommend having known them and their dogs for close to 15 years, I would also talk to
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/AusGerstbrei/
> 
> I am a working dog person, but I have spent a lot of time around Rebecca's dogs, many since they were puppies. She does a great foundation on them too before they go to their new homes.


Thank you - Josh also recommended Rebecca as a wonderful breeder. I have been in touch with her and it sounds like they may have a litter in early summer that should have a suitable puppy in it. In the mean time I plan to try and meet with her at Josh's place in GR - so I can meet her and see the dogs she's working.

I really appreciate all the helpful info everyone has been sharing with me - and I think it will greatly benefit the puppy as well as our family to put the extra time in, instead of being another idiot just throwing money at someone.

I want to make sure we are right for the puppy, just as much as the other way around - plus support a responsible local breeding program.

Thanks again


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

Also - to anyone who has PM'd me - thanks you but I haven't hit the post count yet to be able to reply to anyone 

But I'm working on it! haha

Thank you,
Vaughn


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

LOL Rebecca told me that Josh sent her a potential buyer. I didn't realize it was you. Small world.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

lhczth said:


> LOL Rebecca told me that Josh sent her a potential buyer. I didn't realize it was you. Small world.


Someone that has been coming to our club is waiting for a pup from Rebecca too....he wants a showline.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Ivana is a really nice female and she has a great breeding planned for her.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

lhczth said:


> Ivana is a really nice female and she has a great breeding planned for her.


He is nervous....the wait is making him anxious, especially when she is going to Germany for the breeding. I told him to foster or train up a pup for someone while he's waiting. But he is learning helperwork to take the edge off.


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

I enjoyed talking with Rebecca - but I think my initial email to her gave the wrong impression, judging by how the beginning of the phone call went.

There's no rush picking the right pup for me and my family, so I'm going to continue to make calls, visit kennels and trainers - and talk with helpful, knowledgeable folks like you all 

At least I think I have it narrowed down to a WGSL long coat - with medium/med-high drive - but can calm down once the work/play is over and just chill with the family watching some TV in the evenings. I don't want an animal I have to crate every night (except when they are a puppy in their roamer cage, learning their way) - Someone gave me an analogy for most high strung working dogs - they are like a gun. You take them out, use them, clean and take care of it, then put it up. That's fine for a hardcore, extreme working dog but not what were after. I want something that I can teach, has drive to play and learn - but can just chill when it's time to chill. Shepherds are probably the most versatile dog breed in the world, but I fell in love with their gentle but fierce loyalty to their owners.

I have enjoyed learning all the new info about the breed since it's been probably 10+ years since I've owned anything other then a good for nothing cat (sorry cat lovers, it's my wifes) and some hens (which are awesome, I have to admit) When I was a teen I had a pair of brother/sister litter mates - the best dogs ever - and I've had many dogs all my life (with the exception of early married life with babies/toddlers)

So I'm starting to get excited! 

Thanks again for being so friendly to the FNG around here


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

High strung, must live in a crate unless working is NOT how a GSD should be. They should want to work, be ready to work yet settle when you need or want to settle.


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## dz0qp5 (Oct 12, 2004)

Stonehill Kennels in Mt. Morris is good, give them a call and go check them out.

https://www.facebook.com/StonehillKennels/


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

lhczth said:


> High strung, must live in a crate unless working is NOT how a GSD should be. They should want to work, be ready to work yet settle when you need or want to settle.


I agree 110% - but I was quoting someone elses analogy. I don't want and am not looking for that in a dog, I need a family pet with good drive and solid nerves. 

I have been talking with dz0qp5 about StoneHill in Mt.Morris - and it sounds like they have a great dog from them - but I am weary of some of the pics they have on their site - and the amount of studs/females they have listed on their site. 

They are breeding for more temperament, health and intelligence (not so much for work/show) - which is what we're looking for - but I haven't really been able to find much info beyond their facebook page and 1-2 other sources.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated 

I'm going to see Chris at WIldhaus this coming weekend for a Schultzhund club meet - since there will be dogs there from previous litters - I really am heavily leaning towards them but I am worried that it will end up being 'too much dog' for us to keep happy and engaged 24/7.

Thoughts?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

sanjo said:


> At least I think I have it narrowed down to a WGSL long coat - with medium/med-high drive - but can calm down once the work/play is over and just chill with the family watching some TV in the evenings. I don't want an animal I have to crate every night (except when they are a puppy in their roamer cage, learning their way) - Josh had an analogy for most high strung working dogs - they are like a gun. You take them out, use them, clean and take care of it, then put it up. That's fine for a hardcore, extreme working dog (that josh likes because he competes in comps) but not what were after. I want something that I can teach, has drive to play and learn - but can just chill when it's time to chill. Shepards are probably the most versatile dog breed in the world, but I fell in love with their gentle but fierce loyalty to their owners.


I just want to address this misconception. My trainer is the world champion. The dog she won the WUSV with lives in the house, is very social, very stable. Her previous world level dog lived in the house prior to his passing this year. The dog before that? She took 2nd at the WUSV. That dog lived in the house. My dog has two of those dogs directly in his pedigree and the other is closely related to my dog's dam. All these dogs can settle. All these dogs are what the breed is supposed to be. The offspring of these dogs are in pet homes, SAR homes, AKC sport homes and IPO homes.

But the idea that high level competition dogs are loaded guns is simply not true. It may be a personal preference for some but it is not an accurate generalization.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I've met a few Wildhaus dogs. They are all nice, stable, social dogs. I'm sure Chris can produce what you are looking for.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

sanjo said:


> had an analogy for most high strung working dogs - they are like a gun. You take them out, use them, clean and take care of it, then put it up. That's fine for a hardcore, extreme working dog (that josh likes because he competes in comps) but not what were after.



I really can not stand when people say this garbage. 

These are all the same dog. They can do it all. I can post hundreds of pictures of multiple different dogs in every setting you can think of.


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

Don't shoot the messenger, lol.

I have had many animals the last 40 years and all of them were calm, social members of the family - even our dumb as rocks Orphingtons. 

Drive is a real thing though - and some animals have more than others - which was what my original statement was talking about. I don't know any of these people personally - I'm simply trying to make the best informed decision I can to pick the right puppy, from the right breeder. 

When someone uses an analogy thats as striking as that though - it makes you second guess your choices, that's all.

I have had plenty of dogs and understand they are a full time job, like my 3 kids =p - but adding a new, hopefully long term member of my family isn't a small commitment for me - which is why I took the time to join this forum and start posting. 

Lots of great people around here, more than happy to share their experiences with breeders and clubs in my area - which is awesome.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

sanjo said:


> I agree 110% - but I was quoting someone elses analogy. I don't want and am not looking for that in a dog,* I need a family pet with good drive and solid nerves.
> *
> I'm going to see Chris at WIldhaus this coming weekend for a Schultzhund club meet - since there will be dogs there from previous litters - I really am heavily leaning towards them but I am worried that it will end up being 'too much dog' for us to keep happy and engaged 24/7.
> 
> Thoughts?


I can't imagine life without my WH dogs. I have two from their lines. 
You'll meet them on Saturday at club!
You'll be the one happy and engaged by the dog, they are so much fun and a joy to have around.


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

onyx'girl said:


> I can't imagine life without my WH dogs. I have two from their lines.
> You'll meet them on Saturday at club!
> You'll be the one happy and engaged by the dog, they are so much fun and a joy to have around.


I'm excited for the trip over 

We'll probably leave the twins at grandmas for this trip (since it's a substantial drive) and just bring our son with - hopefully the weather is better than this weekend! I froze my buns off today


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Chris is excellent at pairing the right dog with the right person. Don't worry about the dog being too much.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I also hate when people spew the garbage that showlines are lazy, unmotivated couch potatoes, those people clearly haven't met the plethora of showline dogs I have had, in fact sometimes I WISH Gavin was a lazy couch potato!!!!


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## sanjo (Feb 22, 2017)

LARHAGE said:


> I also hate when people spew the garbage that showlines are lazy, unmotivated couch potatoes, those people clearly haven't met the plethora of showline dogs I have had, in fact sometimes I WISH Gavin was a lazy couch potato!!!!


Not to start a raging debate here, since I'm only looking for peoples feedback on breeders in my area, and not so much 'what's the best GSD line' but... from what I can tell by reading all the threads and articles I can find - AM and WG are totally different animals for the SL breed line. Depending on what the owner is after in a dog - 1 or the other will NOT fit their criteria and be deemed 'not as good' - not that it's true in any way - other than the individual assessing the animal. To them it's clear - but to someone else looking for different qualities - their opinions will vastly differ. It will also vary based on the individual dog, just like people from the same family can be doctors, lawyers - or criminals and junkies - 50% genetic deposition from 'mom and dad' and 50% environment/handler/owner.

I will tell everyone who finds this thread in the future - that picking the right breeder is an insanely difficult decision. One that you shouldn't take lightly and DEFINITELY need to put the work in talking to owners, breeders, visiting said breeders/kennels and local clubs + talking with reputable trainers in your area.

Everyone will have their own opinion (like people always do) about what's the best.

I am grateful to meet and get to know some of the members in this community. I have been reading about GSD's and all the pro's and con's of the breed - and I can say without a doubt that despite the problems some animals can encounter - when you pick the right breeder - you eliminate most of those problems. The rest is up to you to be a good parent to the pup/dog - just like with anything worth while - if you don't put the time in - you'll never achieve the potential.

Everyone who owns an AKC pure breed GSD is an Ambassador for the entire breed, average people don't know the different between a DDR, WGSL, AMSL, etc... When I talk to my friends, who almost ALL of them own dogs BTW - and I mention we're considering a GSD - their first reaction is 'wow really? are you sure?...' so that right there tells me that there are an abundance of terrible GSD owners to perpetuate the stereotype of 'bad dogs' - and that was the main reason I started researching every last thing I could find about the different breeds, breeders, lines and pros and cons of the dogs. I didn't want to be that guy...

I feel very confident now that I'm making an informed decision partly from those who have lent help on these forums - but largely due to the diligence that I have put in re-educating myself about what I remember as 'my best childhood friends in the whole world' - bringing any dog into your family is a big decision - and one that shouldn't be made haphazardly. 

Thanks again for all the help - you guys have been awesome!

(man that ended up being really long)


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

LARHAGE said:


> I also hate when people spew the garbage that showlines are lazy, unmotivated couch potatoes, those people clearly haven't met the plethora of showline dogs I have had, in fact sometimes I WISH Gavin was a lazy couch potato!!!!


I didn't see anywhere on this thread anyone posting the above? Or did I miss something?


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

We are also perfectly capable of having high drive GSD in the house, and have done so for many years. We now have Malinois, who are also capable of being in the house. In fact my husband's WUSV dog was also a house dog. We would encourage anyone interested in a certain breed or line to get to know some dogs and do their research. Also, it should absolutely be taken into account that some levels of drive are more effort to train to be appropriate in the house, totally irregardless of breed. Here are some pics to emphasize my point.
IckkyKasEden by Falon Gray Markow, on Flickr
The boys hanging in the living room by Falon Gray Markow, on Flickr
2015-12-05, Family Pics by Falon Gray Markow, on Flickr
Kastle & Ferris by Falon Gray Markow, on Flickr
27/52 Ickky & Ferris by Falon Gray Markow, on Flickr
Ghost and the guys by Falon Gray Markow, on Flickr
51/52 Christmas Limit (w/ Eden, Kastle, Ickky) by Falon Gray Markow, on Flickr
Hanging out at home by Falon Gray Markow, on Flickr
Eden & Ickky Cuddle Time by Falon Gray Markow, on Flickr


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

I think we all remember the old game of "telephone".


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## JPC (11 mo ago)

sanjo said:


> We are looking for furry companion for our family of 5. We live on the west side of the state near Grand Rapids and spend plenty of time hiking, boating, bike riding, etc - with the kids. Our yard is 1 acre with an 8ft fence, plenty of room for playing fetch or running agility on the various fixtures on the backyard - when we can't get out for a hike/walk/park run.
> 
> I've read about working vs show - and I don't intend to compete nor do I feel strongly either way about 'which is better' - I'm more interested in making a responsible decision with picking the right breeder - to get the right pup for our family.
> 
> Any recommendations / experience with breeders in MI would be greatly appreciated.


I purchased a puppy from Stone Hill Kennels and he had MAJOR health issues - Pano, Hygromas, respiratory infections, Elbow dysplasia in both elbows requiring surgery, bacterial infections. He passed away Jan 10 2022. Barron was not even 2.5 years old. I've heard a lot of positive reviews on Stonehill...but that was our experience


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