# opinions on breeder in MI



## eggo520 (Oct 28, 2007)

I have a friend who is looking at getting a puppy from Browning Haus German Shepherds in Gaylord, MI. Just wondering what you guys think of their site. Thanks.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Website:
http://www.browninghausgermanshepherds.com/home.html


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I wasn't able to find anything on OFA


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I would tell the friend to KEEP LOOKING.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.I wasn't able to find anything on OFA


Neither was I.
They also seem to be expecting 6 litters fairly soon.


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## eggo520 (Oct 28, 2007)

That's pretty much what I was thinking too. Our friend seems SET on getting a puppy from one of their summer litters. He also told me tonight that the breeder, after talking to him on the phone, told him that he could have "pick of the litter."







Our friend is one of those "I'm going to do whatever the heck I want, don't tell me what to do" kind of people and I'm kind of afraid to bring this up with him. It's not really my business...right? Suggestions?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Well it really isn't your buisness, BUT I would just give him my .02 cents anyway. If he doesn't listen, that is HIS issue. But at least you TRIED.

Does your friend know anything about GSDs and the hip issues that are such a problem in the breed?


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## emjworks05 (May 30, 2008)

correct me if im wrong, but i didnt see anything one OFA nor did i see anything about their dogs having titles.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

From what I have found with people I know is some are just bound and determined to do what they think is ok/right and what I say doesn't mean squat.

I gently give my $0.02 and then I have to just







and hope for the best for them.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

what blackgsd said.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

point him at some other breeders to compare this one to - and the OFA website - tell him he is an intelligent person, and he should be able to figure out all the red flags himself! If that doesn't work - LOL then you are wrong about his intelligence! 

Lee


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I live in Michigan, don't think I've ever heard of this breeder though. Just based on the site I don't see any titles or OFA info - would have to talk to the breeder about that. The dogs look a little plump and not in condition. Given the prices I would definitely look elsewhere. There are several reputable working line breeders in or within a day's drive of Michigan.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Tell them there are better options. The dogs I checked are not OFA. No honorable reason to not even do this minimum test.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

$1500 for oversized, mediocre, NON show quality dogs (they ad all of them as show quality... hah)... yeah, it'd be laughable to spend that much money for a pup from this "breeder." Grossly oversized (one bitch was advertised at over 100 lbs), not health-checked, not titled or tested in any way, nowhere near worth $1500. But hey, if he wants to throw $1500 to the wind, it's his choice, let him make a stupid, uneducated mistake; sometimes that's the only way people will learn.









For that money, he could go with a SUPER knowledgeable breeder who does DILIGENT, careful health and temperament checking like Lisa Clark or Chris Wild, two breeders off the top of my head who are in Michigan. For the same price, he will have access to the truest representatives of the GSD possible, excellent breeder support, and truly the "pick of the litter" for HIS NEEDS. "Pick of the litter" to his listed breeder means your friend can walk in and choose whatever pup he wants- it could be the right choice or it could be the VERY WRONG CHOICE. With a good breeder, the breeder will know the pups inside out and after carefully interviewing him, the best match possible will be made and he will absolutely get the pick of the litter for his needs. I'm really starting to dislike this craze for the "pick of the litter." That's all subjective and the best pup in the litter for a police prospect is much different than the best pup in the litter for an active pet home. People who choose without the breeder's help usually end up not making the best choice and who else suffers for it but the poor pup.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Emily is your friend in Michigan? If so where abouts? What type of GSD is s/he looking for (working line, German, American show, etc)?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Thank you DianaM. 

To be honest, by the OP's description of this buyer, I would not place a puppy with them.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Not surprising.







But I think the friend needs to know the difference between a GOOD breeder and a, "Hey, that GSD has balls, that GSD has a uterus and ovaries, LET'S MAKE MONEY!" breeder.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I just met a pup from a kennel that was blasted here not long ago ~ breeder here in MI. Overpriced and not being titled by the breeder. Owner didn't do any homework, I told owner of this site a few times while this discussion was ongoing. Owner did not pay for the "trained" pup(if this gives you a hint of where it came from). I told the owner about a few places where they could have gotten a pup from , but had already put downpayment, and I guess didn't want to lose it. At any rate, 14 week old pup was adorable and according to the owner very smart and obedient, I hope for the best for them.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Sometimes things work out fine. Again, a good breeder is not a guarantee, but it does stack the deck in one's favor. Seeing how a dog is a HUGE *lifetime* investment, I'd rather go with the best I can. It is a shame that most people research their washing machine and auto purchases much more than researching their future family member.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I guess I can see someone not knowing better and spending like $500 on a BYB pup, but the fact that this breeder is charging the same or even MORE than many decent working and German show line breeders, I see absolutely no reason/excuse.


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## eggo520 (Oct 28, 2007)

Lies, my friend is here in Georgia where we live. He is planning on having the pup shipped here. I think that he is wanting German lines, but he does not know enough about the breed to know if he wants working or show lines. So far he has told me that he wants to "do some protection training" with the dog. But working line dogs can be handful if you don't know what you're getting into. I'm also worried that his live-in girlfriend, who weighs 100 pounds soaking wet and is afraid of big dogs, might not be able to handle a high-energy working line dog

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that my friend loves BIG dogs (his previous dog was a rottie) and he is absolutely THRILLED that they have a 100 pound female on their site







I don't know what to do...


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:he is absolutely THRILLED that they have a 100 pound female on their site
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Enjoy your hip-dysplastic dog that'll die when it's 9 years old."



> Quote:who weighs 100 pounds soaking wet and is afraid of big dogs,


And he wants a dog as big or BIGGER than his girlfriend who fears big dogs, who will live with the dog and have to deal with the dog? Do I predict a separation in the near future? I'd either just throw up my hands and walk away with a "good luck" or I'd give the straight, hard facts to the girlfriend. She needs to be educated so she can refuse to walk the monster on account of her not wanting to get hurt or have anyone else get hurt. I sense a disaster waiting to happen.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Why don't you pull up some of the threads on less than reputable breeders that have been on this board and show it to your friend......


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## Julie'somom (Jun 13, 2004)

I so want to say that my GSD from a lovely kennel in Michigan that guarantees their dogs against hip dysplasia, actually has hip dysplasia and they will not honor the guarantee. I also want to say my girl's half sister also has hip dysplasia. Thier dog also had ssevere torsion . ($4500) and my girl has pannus and just had surgery to repair a torn acl which, the vet said could have occured as a result of the way she tried to protect her hips......not that we could prove that. 
So if your kennel will not even talk about hips run don't walk away. I have the guarantee but since my girl wasn't xrayed before she was 2 years old they will not honor the guarantee. Would not give this dog back to them for anything. Just be forwarned. It could be a very sad and expensive situation.
Am I allowed to say my dog's name?

julies'omom


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Julie'somom
> Am I allowed to say my dog's name?
> 
> julies'omom


Sure you can post your dog's name as long as it doesn't contain the kennel name that you purchased her from.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Julie'somomI so want to say that my GSD from a lovely kennel in Michigan that guarantees their dogs against hip dysplasia, actually has hip dysplasia and they will not honor the guarantee. ... I have the guarantee but since my girl wasn't xrayed before she was 2 years old they will not honor the guarantee.


 I was wondering why you first breached the agreement yourself ( didn't do the required prelims ) and then complain that the kennel doesn't honor the warranty? Also puppies are a crap shoot and it's really not very fair to expect somebody to guarantee a living creature that is a genetic cocktail so to speak. I would not believe that there is a breeder out there that never had an HD puppy. 

Puppies and dogs are expensive in general, and accidents happen as well regardless from where you dog came from. Yana had perfect hips but a fat lady landed on top of her and now Yana doesn't have good hips anymore and is in the same boat as HD dogs. That's life.


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## Julie'somom (Jun 13, 2004)

Of course pups are a crap shoot. So are kids for that matter. However arrogant you may be about your child you do not know what the little fellow is doing when you are not around. What I did not realize when I bought my dog was that this kennel had not been around long enough to have a reputation of any kind. I consider myself fairly dog savvy buy that does not mean by any means that I know all there is to know. Why did I not have her xrayed before she was two? I had no plans to breed her. There was no way I would have given her back at that time. She has an excellent temperment and is a good obedience dog. The Xrays that were taken of her in December were only taken because we were checking out a limping problem. I had never "agreed" to have her xrayed. ANYTIME. EVER. The contract did not state that I had to have her xrayed. I believe for me this is a matter of good will and good buissness sense. I have had friends with porfessional kennels for years. They would never want the reputation of not standing behind their dogs. Infact they will take back a dog anytime the person doesn't want it. And, they will pay and have paid for any surgery that would be necessary to solve problems that arose out of their breeding progrms. 
It's always a "buyer beware" thing. Any buissness is. But if I can be fooled when I have been trainning and raising dogs for 45 years then there are a lot less knowledgeable people that have also been "taken" (if you will) by these folks. Leis knows who I am talking about. Very little info in their advertisements is true including ownership of the dogs they breed. 
So the bottom line is I do have a great dog. I love her and she is all I ever hoped she would be. I just do not feel it is right that these folks are continuing to run a kennel and not take responsibility for the mistakes they have made. Wether it be in temperment or health. Ten lashes with a wet noodle for me in believing what I read. Another ten for not having her Xrayed just for the heck of it. 

julies'omom


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Julie'somam, I agree with everything you are saying except that you have not xrayed your pup just because you didn't want to breed her. I did prelims on my dog at the time she was spayed and did tell the breeder (as much as I despise Yana's breeder) about the results because otherwise how would the breeders know what quality of puppies they produce? Also the sooner the problems are detected the sooner the treatment starts, so it's for the benefit of our own dogs.

When I take a puppy I take a full responsibility for the puppy's wellbeing and I DO NOT expect the breeder to pay for any surgeries. It's not fair to tell the breeder that I don't want to return my puppy because of genetic HD but you are going to pay for her THR (over 4K). 

What I expect is to be thruthful and streightforward to start with and to provide me with the dog's life long support of breeder's knowledge and experience. That's what separates good breeder from bad breeder in my eyes. That's the conclusion I'm arriving to.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Dogs are not manufactured structures. There are risks no matter what that some pups will have HD or mega or epi no matter how careful and how much research ANY breeder does! Any time you acquire - adopt - buy - find a living creature - dog, cat, bird, horse, baby! - you accept that there are inherent risks for that creature's life and well being. Warrenties are just that, there are NO guarantees in genetics. No good breeder does a breeding that they believe will produce bad hips/nerves/elbows etc. 

There is always a risk. And buyers need to educate themselves, know that there are risks, and buy from a breeder whom they trust has done the best job possible to produce good healthy pups, but at the same time, accept that there are risks, and as a buyer, they do not place blame or expect extraordinary recompense if the dice roll wrong. 

I cross my fingers, say a prayer and hold my breath on every OFA x-ray that goes out, even knowing that I study pedigrees, production etc on every male and family when I chose a breeding partner. And am just as elated as the owners when that paper says Good or Excellent!

Lee


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:I did prelims on my dog at the time she was spayed and did tell the breeder (as much as I despise Yana's breeder) about the results


Bravo! How smart & decent of you to put canine welfare above human differences.

Lee, I agree with every word you wrote, but there are a substantial number of so called good breeders that aren't at all good & can be verrry hard to detect. I can think of 2 well known, well regarded breeders(not GSD) that test up the wazoo & flaunt it but they're testing for relatively rare conditions in their breed while _ignoring_ ongoing health problems within their lines, including the actual breeding stock. Oooohhh yeah, CERF, VWD, OFA but never mind dogs dying at 4 or 5 from heart problems, bone cancer, or bloat, pts for unmanageable seizure disorders, dogs plagued with wonky temperaments & haunted by the ghosts in their heads, dogs so allergy ridden they lick/scratch themselves bloody from the insane misery of it. The websites look good & the dogs winWinWIN. People either ignorant or greedy actually yearn to breed with these winning lines, while innocent dogs continue to live miserably & die young.


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## vom eisenhaus (Jan 9, 2011)

*browning haus kennels*

I personally would never purchase a puppy from this kennel. Their current breeding stock is not ofa'd, they do not train in schutzhund or any dogsport so dogs are not titled and have no clue what the dogs drives really are. They are mix matching working and show lines. They refer to some "SHOW CHAMPON" dogs as being "SCHUTZHUND CHAMPIONS" and also refer to the pohrancini kennel as being in the former east germany when in fact it was located in czechoslovakia. Seems if they are going to advertise statements on their website they should at least "GET IT RIGHT" which tells me they do not do their homework in their own dogs background much less know what they are producing in their progeny.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

There is really no reason to resurrect a 2 year old thread, particularly one that comes close to violating board rules in some respects. So I'm closing this.

-Admin


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