# Breeder in Indianapolis?



## venenoindy (Jul 19, 2011)

Hello everyone!

After a long wait I done some research and really want to add a new member to our family, I had a GSD when I was a young boy and don't remember a whole lot about that. During my research I found a lot of things that I like about the GSD and one of my mayor concerns is finding thr right breeder, In our case we need a pet quality dog because don't have plans other than fun at the park and to be the guardian angel for my son. we have some experience with dogs as we had a wonderful Rottweiler that we lost to cancer but trying to move on,With your help hopefully find the right dog to spend wonderfull years with and make great memories for my son and family. I have talk to several people that have ads but anybody here that can recomend a particular place or person in the Indianapolis area, what I don't want is a hyper dog, more like a solid temperament, playful loving dog. what bloodlines do I need to look for thanks.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

:welcome:

You can find that in any bloodlines. Just be sure to let the breeder know your wants. They should match you with a lower drive dog. You will have to decide if you are interested in showlines or working lines. 

Here is a thread you should check out http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

I can't think of any reputable breeders in IN but know of some here in IL depending on what "type" you're looking for.


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## venenoindy (Jul 19, 2011)

what do you think about this people?

First Friend K-9 Training

sagelfn if I could get a # or website from you that would be great, I would like to talk to as many people as possible thanks.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Definitely check out the responsible breeder link. There is a lot of good info there. If you check out FFK9's facebook page, you'll see they have a number of pups available right now. You'll learn from reading through the link above that there are a number of things you can do:

Go meet them in person and talk to them about what you want to accomplish with the dog
Ask if they will pick a pup for you or if you will be able to choose from any
Ask to see their facilities
Ask if they work their dogs and if you can see them work (I would say even if you want a lower drive dog this would still be important in order to guage temperment)
Ask to see the dam and sire, ask if you can interact with them
Ask about health guarantees and pedgree info
Ask what they do to socialize the puppies (go check out Wildhaus Kennel's How our pups are raised webpage for a great description on this process)
Ask if they are willing to take back the dog if you are not able to keep it for some reason

...And about a million other things. But probably most important- go talk to them in person.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

wildo said:


> Definitely check out the responsible breeder link. There is a lot of good info there. If you check out FFK9's facebook page, you'll see they have a number of pups available right now. You'll learn from reading through the link above that there are a number of things you can do:
> 
> Go meet them in person and talk to them about what you want to accomplish with the dog
> Ask if they will pick a pup for you or if you will be able to choose from any
> ...


As we are on the list for a FF Ozzy Barnero puppy coming in a couple months, I'm happy to answer these questions for you.

Yes you can see their facilities, yes they work their dogs and yes you can see them work. Yes you can spend as much time with dam/sire as you like. They love to work the dogs and one of the employees even grumbled (not in a mean manner, but in a friendly joking manner) that Bruce enjoys working the dogs so much that if he works one, one day, they are there working all the dogs the rest of the day.  Their dogs full names are on their website, you can search on pedigreedatabase or google to bring up the czech sites that have pedigree info (some of his dogs are direct imports and aren't entered into pedigreedatabase, but you can translate the other languages with the easy google translater). Full standard health guarantee.

They socialize the heck out of the puppies. I've personally seen it.

Obviously they are willing to take back the dog. You know this as you have experience with them. They do some rescue on the side and take in other peoples dogs which they then spend their own money on altering, updating on vacs, paid employees who use company time to train and work with the dogs so they stand a better chance of having a successful second home, and careful placement.

OP, please feel free to contact me either here or via PM (private messages) with any questions you may have. We have years of experience and have research FFK9's dogs and them quite well.

BTW - they don't have a "number" of puppies available. They have two litters. This is a big breeding/training facility, they have quite a few very well trained employees who work and socialize the dogs. They aren't just a puppy producer, these are well bred dogs that are exceptionall well raised. Both my dogs are in the advanced OB class there so I have the opportunity to see quite a few of their dogs every single week, as well as quite a few puppies who have since grown up into very nice exceptional adults. They have VERY solid nerves, an excellent temperament, and fantastic training.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

My comments were a summary of what you would find when reading the "responsible breeder" links. They had nothing to do with FFK9. The only thing I said about FFK9 is that they had a number of pups available, which is true-

They have four pups from the Meggie x Fato:
"W" litter Meggie x Fato 4 weeks old | Facebook

And I think 7 pups from Ema x Nargo:
"X" Litter Ema x Nargo 19 days old | Facebook

I don't know how many pups are spoken for, so they may not actually be "available." My point was that they have pups right now making it a good time to go check out how they handle and interact with them.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Sportwaffen K9

Diehl's K9 Training LLC

Both of the above have working lines. May be too much dog, but worth checking into.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Diehls dogs are going to be waayyy too much dog for a pet home like the OP is looking for IMHO.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

I have had a couple other GSD owners recommend Sportwaffen when I was looking for my own dog here in Indiana.

I can't endorse them myself, as I haven't looked at them much, so any endorsement or, um...whatever the opposite of that is, too early in the morning for my vocabulary to be up to par yet, wouldn't mean anything and would be irresponsible to give.

But, check them out for yourself and see what you think.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Rerun said:


> Diehls dogs are going to be waayyy too much dog for a pet home like the OP is looking for IMHO.


I have one... and although lots of energy up to about 6 months, she is living as a "pet" housedog. Training and activity like ball play keeps her sane and my house protected.


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## venenoindy (Jul 19, 2011)

I stop by FFK9's today and got the chance to handle the puppies and also observed the parents of the litter, all I have to say is I'm impress with their temperament. The male in particular is exactly the way I want my dog to be, the only one problem I encounter is that I called Friday and I was told the price was $1250.00 and tonight I was told $1500.00 and don't know what to think of that.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

venenoindy said:


> I stop by FFK9's today and got the chance to handle the puppies and also observed the parents of the litter, all I have to say is I'm impress with their temperament. The male in particular is exactly the way I want my dog to be, the only one problem I encounter is that I called Friday and I was told the price was $1250.00 and tonight I was told $1500.00 and don't know what to think of that.


Did you look at the male "Fato" or "Nargo"? I have hung out with Fato some and he is very sweet. And I have met several of the females as well, and they are equally as well-behaved and friendly.

About the price..sounds like some communication errors to me or ...supply and demand?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Rerun said:


> Diehls dogs are going to be waayyy too much dog for a pet home like the OP is looking for IMHO.


 
I agree with this - and Sportwaffens as well....like driving a Grand Prix Ferrari to the grocery store

Have not looked at the other site - but saw Ozzy at the WUSV and met him on the field afterwards...not sure that a laid back companion pup is going to be produced from him either...

Lee


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## venenoindy (Jul 19, 2011)

It was Fato, the bad think about all this is at $1250.00 I can but at $1500.00 is game over for me. I did not want to say anything about the price because I hate when people argue about the price of something at work, Should I say something to them?


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

First, make sure FFK9 has what you are looking for. His prices are right in line for that quality of dog, and I know of some Show Golden Retreivers and Labs going for double that! (Just saying)

Think about the entire package...Bruce will stand behind the dog. You know it will get proper training and he will/can help thru any issues that arise.

If a few hundred dollars is going to make or break it/ you better think about all the other costs...vet bills/ food/ meds etc. Just like kids...its never ending..but oh such fun!!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think if a dog is well bred, the stable temperament will show thru....
Sportwaffen, or Diehl breed good dogs.
As long as they are given mind and body exercise, they would make great companions...all depends on what the OP wants to do with the dog. I'd rather have a well bred dog with an off switch than a dog that has anxiety and other issues.
$1500 is a fair price for a WL from a good breeder, I don't see the difference of a few hundred when the pedigree is good and the breeding program is strong.
Save a few more dollars and get the right dog! 
Training has costed me many times over what I paid for my dog.
With that said, don't go for the price bracket breeder that has a special order dog for mega bucks...pricing that way is rediculious.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

wolfstraum said:


> I agree with this - and Sportwaffens as well....like driving a Grand Prix Ferrari to the grocery store
> 
> Have not looked at the other site - but saw Ozzy at the WUSV and met him on the field afterwards...not sure that a laid back companion pup is going to be produced from him either...
> 
> Lee


Totally agree! For what it's worth, I wasn't recommending an Ozzy litter. There aren't any on the ground right now or even confirmed breedings. There are, however, two other litters with dogs a little more suitable for what the OP is looking for IMHO.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

ponyfarm said:


> If a few hundred dollars is going to make or break it/ you better think about all the other costs...vet bills/ food/ meds etc. Just like kids...its never ending..but oh such fun!!


I agree. Training classes alone are a hundred every 8 wks. Just between puppy and novice OB classes at any reputable facility (not just necessarily FF) you're going to pay at least two hundred in about 4 months. So a couple hundred shouldn't make or break the purchase price. You pm'd me about this and I'll reply here as well - I personally would ask about the price difference you were quoted. This is a very reputable facility and too many clients to start upping the price just because someone showed up to ask about them. Chances are there was some miscommunication between employees or between employees/owner or there may even be a price difference between the two litters.


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> I think if a dog is well bred, the stable temperament will show thru....
> Sportwaffen, or Diehl breed good dogs.
> As long as they are given mind and body exercise, they would make great companions...all depends on what the OP wants to do with the dog. I'd rather have a well bred dog with an off switch than a dog that has anxiety and other issues.
> $1500 is a fair price for a WL from a good breeder, I don't see the difference of a few hundred when the pedigree is good and the breeding program is strong.
> ...


I have a Diehl puppy (13 months old now) and Onyxgirl hit on the head with her comments - my pup has been exceptional - no landshark stuff that couldn't be redirected, slept out of a crate at 5 months, great with kids and other animals, very stable personality, totally fun to train. I also put in my time with lots of physical and mental exercise. So you do get out what you put in by buying a well bred pup and spending the money, energy and time to work with the pup.



gagsd said:


> I have one... and although lots of energy up to about 6 months, she is living as a "pet" housedog. Training and activity like ball play keeps her sane and my house protected.


True, so true! Minka lives in the house although we have a big, safe pen outside so on nice days she is out there while I'm at work. But since 5 months old she has stayed in the house while I was at work on really cold winter days and now on really hot summer days. 

Every morning I get up, rain or shine to exercise, play and train before I head off to work. She seems pretty content until I come home and off we go again. But I don't consider her excessively busy. A friend of mine has a German Shepherd/Rottie mix, now there is an excessively busy dog that needs tons and tons of exercise, not to mention she is pretty fearful of things. So my friend puts in way more time then me just to keep from sliding backwards.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

I got to cuddle with the older puppies today.( at FFK9) The sable male is sooo sweet.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

venenoindy said:


> It was Fato, the bad think about all this is at $1250.00 I can but at $1500.00 is game over for me. I did not want to say anything about the price because I hate when people argue about the price of something at work, Should I say something to them?


I have a friend who is a breeder and people often try to bargain on the price of a puppy. Doesn't hurt to ask.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

sigh

It never fails that people misunderstand posts about higher drive dogs not being recommended for a home that wants a pet to take to the park once a week, etc. Those that have posted that they have Diehls dogs are WORKING DOG experienced people who are constantly training and exercising your dogs. Unless the OP has a lot more that they left out of their original post about what they are looking for, I would never dream of recommending Diehls dogs for a laid back envioronment like that. My SO was just with him on a long track last night at work with Diehl talking dogs and talking about our Ozzy puppy in the making and agrees with this. Yes they are awesome dogs with great stable temperaments, but they are bred to work.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Rerun said:


> sigh
> 
> It never fails that people misunderstand posts about higher drive dogs not being recommended for a home that wants a pet to take to the park once a week, etc. Those that have posted that they have Diehls dogs are WORKING DOG experienced people who are constantly training and exercising your dogs. Unless the OP has a lot more that they left out of their original post about what they are looking for, I would never dream of recommending Diehls dogs for a laid back envioronment like that. My SO was just with him on a long track last night at work with Diehl talking dogs and talking about our Ozzy puppy in the making and agrees with this. Yes they are awesome dogs with great stable temperaments, but they are bred to work.


See your point, to a point. Puppy flying across counter-top does not bother me, as long as it is not too often.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Yes exactly.  My Malinois is "only" a medium drive dog, low in some regards, high in others, but overall medium. He would make a horrifically terrible working dog (weak nerves). Still, the drive he does have, would drive (no pun intended) most people NUTS if they didn't know what they were in for. If you know what you're in for, a well bred dog from Diehl would be fantastic. But for the average person looking for a family pet who after 6 months will only take the dog in the car to go to the vet once a year, and walk the dog once on the weekends....and maybe play ball for 10 mins in the evening, can you just imagine them letting a 5 month old dog loose in the house when they are away? LOL


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

Sportwaffen was mentioned by my trainer, who owns a dog from there, but only for serious working homes. I don't know much about FF, but my sister took her Rottie there for training, and she liked them a lot. She also liked his dogs, but didn't really interact much with them.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Remember that the purchase price of the puppy is generally the cheapest part of dog ownership!! 

And especially with a GSD you want to begin socializing and training right away. I'm assuming you live here in Indy? I highly recommend training at FFK9 regardless of where you find your pup. I train there along with Rerun and Ponyfarm. 

Another breeder that I can recommend that might fit your needs is Castlebrook Shepherds up in Remington. Debby has primarily German Show Lines, very affordable. She works and trains her dogs herself, I used to do some training at her place. 

I'm going to send you a pm about some people I would NOT recommend..


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

if they quoted you a price on the phone and gave you a different one when you got there,,I would politely ask why? as in, "Maybe I misunderstood but when I called they quoted me xxx and now it's zzz?" 

Personally, I would never negotiate price, that's just me, it is what it is, if it's a price I'm not comfortable with, I would look elsewhere.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Nate breeds pretty serious dogs at Sportwaffen, not your typical "watered down" sport dog breeder. That being said, there can be a pet quality pup in some litters (even his pet quality pups might be over the top for some though, it's all in the definition). Will not hurt to talk to him, he will not guide you wrong.

On the flip side of the coin, a good showline breeding might turn out a perfect pup for the OP.


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## venenoindy (Jul 19, 2011)

I strongly believe in getting the best that you can afford and I don't mind paying for something as long as I get the quality that I paying for, I'm also aware of all additional cost of dog ownership as last vet visit was in the thousands. The point is if you tell me one price on the phone and an other in person it kind of bothers me. I want to thank all of you for your help as this is a big thing for me and my family and the more information I have the better thanks.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

If the only stumbling block is the price quoted, why dont you just say something? Or, if you know they have what you want, I would just drop it and get the puppy. 

I have bought/sold many show horses ...there is a time to bargain (when you dont know if its what you want) and there is a time to suck it up and pay (when you know its just what you want!)


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

What if you know it's what you want but want to bargain for a better price? oke::laugh:


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

wildo said:


> What if you know it's what you want but want to bargain for a better price? oke::laugh:


CheckMate! LOL


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

ponyfarm said:


> CheckMate! LOL


I knew you'd appreciate that. :rofl:


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

to the OP:

There is no harm in calling or e-mailing Nate Harves (Sportwaffen K9) or Mike Diehl for advice. They may have a puppy/dog that suits your requirements or they can refer you in an appropriate breeder that would better suit you.

I am a first time GSD owner, but I am thrilled with the choice I made with my breeder who has been supportive from day 1. Miya is from working lines and she gets enough exercise and play so that she is exhausted. I started a month ago with her on changing our daily 3 mi walks to running and we are up to 2.8mi right now (I had to wait until she was mature enough) and she is sleeping as I type.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well anyone can 'bargain' for a better price if they choose, I just don't choose to, I figure they've set a price. If I were selling puppies for 1500$ and someone said, "I'll give you 1000$", honestly, if it were a really really really good home, I'd consider it. BUT I would never do it myself.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think it would be an insult to the breeder and their program to bargain a price. 
If I was really set on a pup from a particular breeding the price would not be a deal breaker.
But I wouldn't go with a breeder who set price brackets, either.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

It was a joke based on the criteria ponyfarm pointed out (and excluded). I was making light of a situation she didn't cover in her reply. I know her personally and figured she'd "get it." I think she did.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

wildo said:


> It was a joke based on the criteria ponyfarm pointed out (and excluded). I was making light of a situation she didn't cover in her reply. I know her personally and figured she'd "get it." I think she did.


Sorry, Wildo and I got off track! Having fun messing with each other.

Good luck to the op in his final decision.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

hey no problemo wasn't sure if you were joking or not..


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm not sure what is meant by "price brackets" but I think it's perfectly reasonable to sell puppies in the litter that are better drive, etc at a higher price than pet quality pups; and most definitely ok to charge different prices for different litters (sire/dam may produce litter A with x quality of pups at y price but sire2/dam2 produce litter B with x quality of pups at z price).

To be clear, the OP never replied to my PM when they pm'd me asking about the price different quoted to them, and still hasn't said if they spoke to the owner himself or even the same person on the phone vs in person, and if they were clear on what litter they were inquiring about. I personally have no idea if the two litters currently on the ground are priced the same or differently so I suggested asking the owner himself because it was likely just a simple error on someones part. This place has been around WAY too long and he has way too many clients to be jacking up puppy prices when someone comes to see them and seems interested.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I figured the oke: :laugh: and :rofl: made it obvious! LOL!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

willy it's friday, it's 100 degrees, my brain isn't functioning correctly LOL


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> I'm not sure what is meant by "price brackets" but I think it's perfectly reasonable to sell puppies in the litter that are better drive, etc at a higher price than pet quality pups; and most definitely ok to charge different prices for different litters (sire/dam may produce litter A with x quality of pups at y price but sire2/dam2 produce litter B with x quality of pups at z price).


I agree to an extent, but not to this much(taken from a SL breeders site):
Starting at $1500.00
call for details: **********

All puppies micro-chiped no charge.
Quality companion/ German Shepherd Puppies with super temperament for companion/pet/protection: $2000 - $2800 

Select show quality/ German Shepherd Puppies for pet/companion/breeding potential show/schutzhund potential: $2800 - $3800. 

Excellent Select Show Quality/German Shepherd Puppies/Breed potential/Show potential/schutzhund potential : $3800 - $4800.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

So, I have a question (yea, you can tell its too hot out! tim even got hot swimming!)

Why is it considered wrong to price some puppies higher or lower in a litter? My sister just got a four month old lab that the breeder held back for herself to show. But, somehow my sister talked her into selling..I know she paid more for this puppy than the pet quality siblings.

I guess its not that common to price them differently, but seems like it could make sense!

Bet the op never thought his question would go on and on and on..


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If a breeder works with a pup, grows it out a bit, then I see the price as a bit higher to be fair because of the time spent in training. 
When you look at a kennel that has several litters on the ground in a few months time, and has a price bracketing system that is 1000's of dollars to the extreme, you better know what you are buying....unless money doesn't really mattter. 
I would hope most breeders would breed for the highest price bracket criteria, and not charge such an outragious price. 
Why would they want to breed for something less if they could breed for the best anyway? Just to please the buyers, that want a "quality companion"(don't we all want a quality companion)?And I do know that all pups aren't created equal, but a few thousand difference in price is extreme. I would pay a few hundred per the littermates, but not 1000's!

not sure if I'm making my point in this post so will quit!


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Sorry onyx-girl, I posted before I read yours...which makes perfect sense! thx


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I agree that thousands difference in a litter would be highly questionable, but like you said, a couple hundred is more than fair IMHO.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> I agree with this - and Sportwaffens as well....like driving a Grand Prix Ferrari to the grocery store
> 
> Have not looked at the other site - but saw Ozzy at the WUSV and met him on the field afterwards...not sure that a laid back companion pup is going to be produced from him either...
> 
> Lee


I have the top male out of a Stuka and Olina from sportwaffen. My first GSD at that. The dog is in public 6-7 days of the week and is very well known throughout the city at every dog-friendly venue that exists. I don't think Stuka lines are too much.. very solid nerved and extremely stable while bringing strong power in protection. High prey drives, but not stupid high drives like some high end sport dogs. Very strong defense drives, great tolerance of, albeit distrust of, the random stranger approaching

Very high likelyhood I will get another dog from Sportwaffen at some point down the road.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

hunterisgreat said:


> I have the top male out of a Stuka and Olina from sportwaffen. My first GSD at that. The dog is in public 6-7 days of the week and is very well known throughout the city at every dog-friendly venue that exists. I don't think Stuka lines are too much.. very solid nerved and extremely stable while bringing strong power in protection. High prey drives, but not stupid high drives like some high end sport dogs. Very strong defense drives, great tolerance of, albeit distrust of, the random stranger approaching
> 
> Very high likelyhood I will get another dog from Sportwaffen at some point down the road.


Again, the point is - you are experience with the breed and actively working and training your dog. The average pet owner isn't doing that and is going to be in over their head.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Rerun said:


> Again, the point is - you are experience with the breed and actively working and training your dog. The average pet owner isn't doing that and is going to be in over their head.


No no.. Jager IS my first GSD. Before that was labs, boykin spaniels, and other breeds. I DID get a GSD knowing I intended on working him, though I didn't really know much about it at the time. First and foremost, he is a companion animal


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