# Dog aggression - feels like a crossroads



## mikeyg (Aug 25, 2015)

Nico is now over 3 years old, had him from 8 weeks. He loves all people, kids, men, women, any skin color, and people with hats. He's pretty good to excellent at home. He's got the cutest face. He's obsessed with his ball. He's not scared of lightning, thunder, or fireworks.

But he is _off-the-charts _dog reactive.

I've come to accept this, though there's still some anger, somewhere. Paying the amount I did to a breeder should be paying for a good temperament. For that amount of money, we should be able to head to the park, or go for a walk downtown.

I have worked with him for years on desensitizing him. Everyone and their mother, my roommate who worked for the SPCA, the police handler I hit up for casual conversation, insisted that it just took time, some more than others. So I've taken years to get closer to other dogs with positive reinforcement. Over this summer I took him out a couple times a day, every day, near-ish other dogs to work on focus and obedience. It's worked some, but his best is still far from acceptable public behavior.

I'm at the point where, as an active, youngish (34) guy who loves to get out and play sports, go on hikes, explore cities, etc., am having huge doubts about our future. He can't do any of that with me. Would a family with no other pets and a fenced yard be a better life for him, for them, and for me?

That said, at the moment, I also have a deposit down for a board and train. I'm not a pay-someone-to-take-care-of-my-crap kind of person, but there's literally no alternative besides giving him up or keeping him inside his whole life. It's a reputable facility, the owner breeds GSDs and trains police dogs. I've contacted people who have reviewed them online, and have gotten excellent feedback. Still, I'm so incredibly nervous about it, and of course, it costs about the same as buying another dog from a breeder.

I don't even know what I'm asking here. But no one in my life understands having a reactive dog. I was just thinking the other day, I'm happy with my life, with work, friends, hobbies - but not Nico. Sure, we have our moments when we play, or when he jumps up to cuddle at night. He's the best at night when he's calm, I love it.

But I don't have that bond with him that everyone else seems to have with their dog. They just love their dog to death, and I spend all day _managing_ my dog. It's a never ending process of being on edge, scanning for animals on walks, being interrupted throughout the day (or night) when he hears a dog outside.

Reading others' stories here, I see that I'm lucky that Nico is good with humans. But, I feel, permanently, this sense of "now what?" with him. Will I still have to be just as vigilant after the board and train, but with an e-collar remote in hand? Should I not do the board and train and just keep our world very small? Would medication help? Is the board and train a waste of money? Will it even work? If it doesn't, then I'm out of that money, and then what? And again - would a family with plenty of human contact but no animals be better for him?

Thanks for having this space to vent. If he ends up at the trainer, I'll update periodically. That won't be for a few weeks, and I wouldn't get him back until the end of October.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

I think your road map is pretty clear. It sounds like you did due diligence on the trainer. When his board is over then it is up to you to keep up the training. Sometimes dog aggression is related to the chemistry between the owner and the dog. After the training he might be fine when handled by other people but old reactions may come back because he senses your reactions if you anticipate problems due to learned reflexes on your part. If that happens then I suggest looking for a reputable GSD rescue to have him rehomed. When I was in my 20s and early 30s and single, I intentionally did not own any animal companions even though I was always a life long animal lover because it didn't fit my life style and situation.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

If you feel that you have did everything you could do and Train and board is your last resort then you should try it as long as it has very good references. It is important the board and train work with you as well. My dog is dog reactive.Max was never fond of strange dogs he is not crazy aggressive, he would want to run them off. I did a lot of leave it’s, focus exercises, obedience for him to behave. He gets along with the dogs in our house greatly and is a playful boy we added a puppy into our life’s two years ago and they are the greatest of friends. I do not need him to play with strange dogs but to ignore them. The things I do most with my dogs are taking them out for walks, beaches hiking trails. Max being dog reactive has not hindered me at all in doing those things. Yes it takes time and patience but it can be done. My goal was just to walk past dogs calmly - no need to interact. I worked with trainer with timing and made sure I had a worked with a trainer with ecollars so I can proof reliable off leash recalls also helps with dog reactivity if done right. Focus exercises starting with treats then balls or toys and obedience exercises helped. A solid “stay” will let your dog know what he needs to do. I also like the word leave it. Noseworks class or any anything your dog can excel in or practice will build more confidence and build a strong bond. 

The most difficult thing to do is not get tense. Believe me i know it is easier said then done. German shepherds pick up every emotion we have so it is important to remember to breathe. It’s why I liked the beach for our practice it’s hard not to ignore the salt air. You have to find your zen place to work with your dog. I find the more mature they get everything starts to snap into place. The more progress you see the more confident you will feel. The most important though is consitency. 

I enjoyed going To the local beach one side allowed leashes dogs during season and off season either side allowed leashed dogs. Sharing what helped us.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

mikeyg said:


> Nico is now over 3 years old, had him from 8 weeks. He loves all people, kids, men, women, any skin color, and people with hats. He's pretty good to excellent at home. He's got the cutest face. He's obsessed with his ball. He's not scared of lightning, thunder, or fireworks.
> 
> But he is _off-the-charts _dog reactive.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear you're finding life with your dog so trying! The ideal time to address this issue with your dog would have been when he was still pretty young. That being said, your dog may never like other dogs, but he can very likely be trained to behave appropriately around them. 

A board-and-train can be a good option, or it can cause more problems...So if that's your preference, just make darn sure you do sufficient research on the training facility you choose! Understand their approach, and talk to previous clients! And make sure they offer ample time to train you at the end.

My personal preference would be to work one-on-one with a trainer for this, because in the end it's your handling and relationship with the dog that counts. Since you've owned this dog since it was 8 wks old and haven't been able to stop this behavior, clearly you need to modify your handling of the dog, and a trainer could definitely help you with that. Of course, do the same ample research on the trainer you choose, if you choose this route. Find someone experienced with GSDs, who uses a balanced approach (IMHO he's beyond a purely positive approach). I wish you the best of luck however you decide to proceed! And welcome to the forum!


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## Suzy25 (Mar 3, 2016)

I see that you mentioned that you spent years "close to other dogs with positive reinforcement" So it looks like positive reinforcement isn't the best training method for you and your dog. If it takes years to train something with little to no success then its time to look into other areas and be open minded about different training techniques. Which sounds like exactly what you are doing with this trainer you have for the board and train, make sure the trainer has success stories with reactivity/ aggression (although breeder and police trainer sounds experienced) So honestly, If I personally wasn't feeling capable of training/rehabbing my own dog, or not comfortable changing training techniques in fear of doing something wrong and making it worse, I would go for the board and train, and a good trainer will send you home with a strict schedule to keep him on and things to really continue working on, as well as, if you can, keep training with the trainer for a while after to really keep working on him and get him to the point you want him to be. 

Make 100% sure the trainer is actually good, not all trainers or board and trains are good or will work. if you want to double check im sure if you post your approx location people could have trainer to recommend so you make the best choice for you and Nico


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I think the board-and-train, assuming it is a good trainer, will be a good opportunity to make your final decision. In case you do decide to re-home him, it will at least ease your mind that you did good for him. In case you decide to keep him, you probably need to change your ways as the behavior is a two-way-street, based on your description of him as a pretty stable sounding dog/pup to start with. Has he had any past bad experiences when he was young? Like being attacked or maybe just one scare that you thought was no big deal but which could have changed him nevertheless? Even after a successful b&t, you always have to be vigilant as old habit die hard. Are you up for that? I personally would consider my own quality of life as well. You are only young once and it has to be good; for you and the dog. Keep us posted.


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## mikeyg (Aug 25, 2015)

Suzy25 said:


> Make 100% sure the trainer is actually good, not all trainers or board and trains are good or will work. if you want to double check im sure if you post your approx location people could have trainer to recommend so you make the best choice for you and Nico


We're planning on K9 Instincts in Portsmouth, Rhode Island. Anywhere close to Providence (including Boston) I would consider. Unless there's something head and shoulders better, I'd likely stick with this location, since it took contacting them at the beginning of August to get an October start date. They seemed quite booked up both for consultations and the actual training.


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## mikeyg (Aug 25, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> based on your description of him as a pretty stable sounding dog/pup to start with. Has he had any past bad experiences when he was young? Like being attacked or maybe just one scare that you thought was no big deal but which could have changed him nevertheless?


It is possible some younger experiences in a dog park (we stopped going to those early in his life, for all the reasons people write about on here) were negative, even though they would have been isolated incidents, and nothing "big". There was a bigger GSD mix that bothered him constantly whenever they were both there. Nico finally "stood up for himself" one day, but of course looking back that may have not been the best thing.

He's stable in the ways I mentioned, but highly excitable. I did leave that out looking back at the post. He's always been very excitable, so even with humans, he's happy to see them, but it requires treats/ball/everything to get him to stay calm greeting one. He's again, much better now, largely will sit for people, but often with these high pitched, somewhat deafening shouts of excitement haha. I think this excitability translates over negatively with dogs. That's why I wondered about medication.

With just me, it's usually different. Right now he's plopped down on his place taking a snooze next to me while I type.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Mikey, just checked out their website, and they sound like they have the tools they will need to work with your dog. Their head trainer breeds GSDs and works with law enforcement dogs, so they are familiar with high drive dogs that may have some aggression issues.

Just make SURE they do follow-up with you, to give you the ability to deal with his issues!

As someone who tried to rehab a dog aggressive dog, and wound up having to euthanize her, I wish you the best of luck! It isn't an easy road to walk. :crying:


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I also reviewed their website, and I like that they emphasize a customized training regimen for each dog. They also offer unlimited, free follow ups to help you maintain the training received in the board-and-train, which is awesome if they're close by.

One thing I've seen at other facilities, mainly the big-box stores/training centers, is that a lot of them rely on the same basic approach - every dog gets an e-collar, for example - very slightly "customized" or tweaked for any given dog...though they offer the same sort of marketing philosophy. But if youve talked to former clients and heard no red flags like that, AND good results, a board-and-train might be just the ticket to get you and your dog back on track!

Keep us posted!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I got my previous GSD, as a 2 year old shelter dog. I lived with her for the next 12.5 years. She was perfect in every way. She adored my young children, was completely housebroken, crate trained, and non-destructive. BUT - she was dog aggressive. I am not sure dog aggression can be fixed. I took a different approach.

When I took my girl out, she was muzzled. At first, she wore a prong collar and some other type of collar and I had two leashes on her. Guarantee, when people saw us coming, they crossed the street - them and their little dogs too. 'Annie' was taught to ignore. Our walks were fast paced and focus was on me. Even though she was good with people, she didn't need to meet them either. She was fine with everyone who came into the house. Not fine with dogs. I could live with that.

We had a big fenced yard. We were able to exercise her there. She had a good life. It wasn't a big deal to me. Some dogs aren't 'go everywhere' kind of dogs. To be honest, I think you have done too much rewarding to try to get your desired behavior. Positive reinforcement for meeting dogs and people - I'd lose that. My dogs don't get treats, balls, etc. to calm down. They sit. They don't get to meet anybody, unless they sit. You can work on 'sitting on the dog' to help him learn to calm himself down. Sit on his leash for 30 minutes every day. Ignore him. No talking. No eye contact. Eventually, he will lie down. He will start to do this in less time and will do it in other places - like the vet office. The exercise teaches them to relax.

All dogs are different. I have always accepted who mine are. You can't make them into something they aren't. It sounds like Nico has so many positive qualities. If you can't love and bond with him, due to one negative quality, then hopefully you can find him a home with people who can. 

I wish you well, with the board and train.


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## Sweet Stella (Feb 7, 2018)

Jeff Gellman of SolidK9Training is in Providence. Talk to him ASAP.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'll be short with this ---- look at Whole Dog Journal's articles on working with dog aggressive dogs, working under threshold. I think these are mostly Pam Miller (or is it Pat Miller?) articles. You'll be able to get shorter thresholds so you can go out and about more comfortably but I think that it never in her experience got down to absolutely gone. Most dogs are less than perfect in some aspect or another.


I would not expect to use a shock collar to "correct" this issue. I would think that would be likely to make it worse. As in "Huh! I get close to that dog and I get a nasty shock! I knew he was no darned good! I should rip his face off!" I might expect to have my dog on lead at most times and most places.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

An electric collar will work as long as it is properly used and the dog clearly understands both negative and positive markers (yes, I want that, no- I don't want that).

Dog reactivity isn't real difficult to fix, quickly, at a good board and train, but it will need to be maintained by the owner for life. It's really pretty easy for a trainer to 'turn a dog around' and have the dog out in a group play yard really fast BUT that hasn't really changed the dog. The importance is maintaining control with the particular 'picture' that the dog has practiced dog reactivity many times. 

At the trainers, environment is controlled, and other dogs are controlled. The real world is a bit more difficult, but hopefully the board and train can give you the tools you need to live a happy, more social life with him.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Just adding my 2cents based on my own experience, it sounds like you found a good B&T. That offer of follow-ups as needed for the life of your dog will probably be invaluable to you. As was said, it is much different walking a newly adjusted dog in a controlled group as opposed to dogs in the general public.

I'm not normally for B&T but your dog is 3 now and that's a good chunk of his life where due to the issues has restricted fun options for both of you. Seems time to let a pro who works and knows the lines help.

Fwiw, mine is what I call reactive but trained. Took a different route with group classes but I had to get my own fears under control and I knew that I had to be an integral part of the process in order to get over myself.

Going through reactivity and getting the help necessary made me deeply appreciate just how hard my boy was willing to work for me. It was hard and a couple times fought getting out of the car, kind of shut down, but he got over it. then one day during a few mins break (last day of class) while on the fringes of the group milling around, he and I looked at each other and started playing with all others forgotten. I swelled with pride that day. We still aren't perfect but we are able to go out and about with less stress and no outbursts. I hope you experience that with your boy.


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## mikeyg (Aug 25, 2015)

Heartandsoul said:


> ...he and I looked at each other and started playing with all others forgotten. I swelled with pride that day. We still aren't perfect but we are able to go out and about with less stress and no outbursts. I hope you experience that with your boy.


Thank you so much. It's amazing to hear it's possible, and I really appreciate the encouragement and well wishes. I see glimpses of that with Nico, and hope we (the trainer and I) are able to help him focus on that part of himself and ignore the rest.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

My male was dog reactive. I worked on his focus on me. I literally walked around with a ball in my pocket. Saw a dog, played tug with the ball. It took time. 2 years straight. A few weekends ago, he got his cgc. So its possible. You just need help getting there.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I think you have two options. One is to keep working with this dog while you deprive yourself of the things you love and dreamed of doing with him. Your other option is to make him your "stay at home" dog and get a second dog from lines not known for dog reactivity or aggression. Life is too short to fool around trying to make this dog into something he is not. You have worked with this dog for years to no avail. You deserve to be happy and to pursue activities you enjoy.

Dog aggressive dogs are no fun. It is like having all the work and expense of owning a dog without the joy and benefits. Either re-home him or keep him, but get a dog you deserve that you can enjoy the activities with that you are missing out on.

I have had two dog aggressive dogs and it stinks. I am active and enjoy the outdoors, especially hiking. I understand your frustrations and resentment. For outdoorsy people, dog reactive / aggressive dogs are joy stealers. IMO, you are sacrificing too much.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Lol I completely disagree with mineareworkingline dogs statement although it is her opinion. Though,I do believe adding a second dog can be good thing when you are ready. It is more then possible you can enjoy life with your dog reactive/aggressive not liking other dogs dog. If you so choose to put the work in. It all depends upon the invidual owner and dog- the indvidual circumstances. Op- you have to remember your advise given on this thread is per people’s experiences, as is mine. An experienced trainer can nip dog reactive isSues much quicker then people with no experience. You will learn to be more experienced and your training skills advanced over time. Yes the dog will never like other dogs but they do start to become more comfortable because they know the rules. I also believe that comes with maturity. Unless you live in the city and the only off leash options are at a dog park yes your dog reactive/aggressive will be more miserable then you unless you have a trainer like Cesar Milan by your side guiding you. 

Working with a favorite ball toy is like magic. Since your dog loves the ball you will be amazed at the focus you can accomplish versus a treat. I often bring balls to the beach or hikes. It’s where i train/play amongst the chaos in a fun atmosphere. 

I had surgery recently instructions by the doctors is that Im still am not allowed to walk my dogs because stitches inside still much healing - just in case the rare chance dogs may pull. I trust max entirely not to pull even so much as that I took him to the beach on a very busy weekend because it was where I really needed to be. As I was practicing our training skills on the beach and I will say it has been an awfully long time I had done much with my dogs because of medical reasons - a very quiet terrier type dog did come over unbegonst to us and sniffed max’s Butt as we were training and rewarding with a ball. Max barely noticed. The focus was on me. Without much care to max the owner scooped up their dog. I was excited max got his but sniffed by a strange dog lol! As we were walking along the beach A not so seemingly growling ,barking, obnoxious, not so friendly golden retriever off leash charged up to us ignoring their owner. Max barked but midway turned around to me looked right at me and stopped as I said leave it. As they dragged their dog away from us. I walked pass them with max in a loose leash smiling and secretly laughing at them. 

It was a busy day at the beach we walked through all kinds crowds Family playing ball - which landed right in front of Max’s face as a little kid ran over to scoop it up. Another man looked like he was charging us as he was trying to catch a frisbee. All of max just watching and taking everything in stride. Real life is filled with uncontrolled situations I’m proud of my dogs.. After walking a few miles we finally got to a quiet place on the beach to reward max with his favorite game of off leash fetch. Max not liking other dogs does not keep us up cooped up in any house. It just makes him not perfect. It has not hindered the thing I have always enjoyed at all not even from the Beginning even with mistakes. The day I had at the beach had been many but like i mentioned due to health issues it has been quite awhile where it was just be and him and it was quiet an incredible day - spending alone time -playing fetch and having fun on the shore cooling off - I can’t describe in words how much fun that is.

We have come a really long way training wise and learned from many mistakes and embarrassing moments - truth. Sure I wish max liked strange dogs but that was not a priority and everything living thing has an issue or something that makes them imperfect. In my circumstances it just works. I have a chihuahua, another gsd there is no crate and rotate in our home. They all live together peacefully. I feel incredibly bonded to max not because life was just easy but because what we continue to overcome together. Just some photos of max and myself enjoying a incredibly beautiful breathtaking day. Only to show yes you can enjoy your dog reactive/aggressive dog and he does not need to have to live his life not enjoying life. I cannot begin to tell you how much fun we have. Please don’t give up on your dog.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I think that it takes a lot of experience to determine whether a dog is truely dog aggressive where no matter the training method, the dog is out to kill other dogs. I don't question those who have been there. I do know for myself because of my inexperience, it took time and a couple of instances for me to realize that mine didn't want to kill other dogs but that he does need some space and was/is willing to fight and not back down and that he does have a habit of staring and posturing which provokes. We are basically past that now with just verbal reminders once in a while and a happy redirection.
@Jenny720 I love what you and he have accomplished and those gorgeous pics you post! Celebrating a surprise butt sniff w/o a reactivity reaction made me laugh. That happened to my boy while we were in a feed and grain store and he was checking out aka sniffing the treat section. His nose was so into what he was doing, he didn't even notice or maybe he did but chose not to notice because I didn't react either. Thanks for that laugh and a forgotten memory.

A little off topic but figured I'd say this here, I am so thankful for your encouragement to look into NoseWorks way back when for my boy. Trialing this weekend. 

Mikeyg, if you've seen glimpses then there's a foundation waiting to be built and added onto imho. maybe change your mindset a tad from disappointment to pride and he will probably pick up and feed off of it. Btw, that experience in the group, I had no treats or toys to work with, none were allowed, all I had was happy emotion and praise. These dogs thrive on that.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Umm...

"There is still some anger"

"I'm happy with my life...but not Nico"

"But I don't have that bond with him"

"I spend all day managing my dog"

"It's a never ending process of being on edge"

"Being interrupted throughout the day (or night) when he hears a dog outside."

"Will I still have to be as vigilant...with an e collar remote in hand"

Please don't put words in my mouth, Op's written word clearly states that he is very unhappy with his dog and that his dog is holding him back from enjoying the the activities he loves. His words also make it quite clear that he does not want to spend his time worried about meeting other dogs when out and is not interested in a lifestyle that will require that time spent with his dog will require hyper vigilance and a handy remote in hand.

Nobody said a dog reactive or aggressive dog will keep a person cooped up but they sure will keep one from enjoying common places, city or trails, where encounters with friendly dogs which are often loose, are likely to occur. Time spent with a reactive dog doing these activities is not going to be the stress busting R&R that a person is seeking with their free time.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

@Heartandsoul- wishing you great luck your nosework trial it is exciting what paths our dogs leads us to if you let them. Yes stealth like butt sniffs - oh the joy lol!!!!!!!!!!
@MineAreWorkingline - I was responding to the comment how reactive dogs can be joy thieves for outdoorsy people. I do walks in the neighborhood, through towns and many different trails in parks that allow dogs (not dog parks) and really enjoy our outings. So really disagree with that. I think if the op has the right guidance and training he will be a lot more happier and find he can do many things with his trained dog.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

@Jen, that is your opinion based on your one dog, your lifestyle, and the sacrifices you are willing to make. It is just that my name was mentioned in conjunction with OP feeling "cooped up" with his dog. All I did was validate his feelings.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

A truly dog aggressive dog is a pretty rare commodity. But if dog reactivity goes unaddressed for a prolonged period, it can look the same. In this case, I don't think it would be possible to know which one the OP is dealing with without seeing the dog in person. 

That being said, I've never been big on the idea of re-homing dogs. To me, and I'm not saying it's the right way or the best way or the only way, when you decide to get a dog it's with you for life. From my perspective, that mindset sort of changes your approach to working with the dog. To roughly quote something another member here said awhile back: "Don't ever let your dog do anything that makes you not like them"! I absolutely love that perspective, because to me it says "don't put up with bad behavior" whatever that is or means for you...just don't allow it! If you don't like it, change it!

With that perspective of permanence and intolerance of bad behavior, the question becomes "how to go about it" instead of "should I do it" or "what are my other options". The Nike slogan would fit well here, but for obvious reasons I'll refrain from using it >

I realise there may be cases when re-homing a dog might be the best option for all concerned, but it should not be an easy go-to option that is considered, IMO, at each step in raising and training a puppy or dog. It should be a last resort when you've exhausted all other possibilities. Again, just my opinion.

So, where does that leave the OP? Carelessly assuming of course, that my opinion matters LOL! 

If I were him, I would consider paying another trainer who is experienced with dog reactivity and aggression to evaluate this dog. And I say that because let's face it, board-and-trains are not cheap! If your dog is truly dog aggressive, chances of leading an active life with this dog by your side go down considerably, unfortunately. If he's just being reactive, IMO, your odds improve greatly!

I personally would not spend money for a BAT for a dog that is unlikely to work out for me. If re-homing is a likely outcome, save your money! You won't know for sure without an independent evaluation (which I believe most any IPO club could do for about $200). Again, just my 2 cents...for what it's worth.

Good Luck with this, and please let us know the outcome!


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

tim_s_adams said:


> That being said, I've never been big on the idea of re-homing dogs. To me, and I'm not saying it's the right way or the best way or the only way, when you decide to get a dog it's with you for life. From my perspective, that mindset sort of changes your approach to working with the dog.


I don't agree with this.

I've had numerous fosters come and go - some short term, some longer term, for different reasons. I'm not lazy about their care or selfish with affection just because they won't be staying with me till death do us part.... 

There are hundreds of reasons why one person is not the final home for any given dog.

Dogs are amazingly resilient. In many ways, they are more resilient than humans that get hung up on regret and ideals and fear of judgement.

They adapt and they can thrive in multiple homes.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OP, sent you a PM


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I just read a post on FB earlier today about a woman whose husky was aggressive with her baby. The day the dog grabbed the baby by the head and tried to lift it over the baby gate was the day she decided it had to go!

Most owners would have taken the dog on a one-way trip to the vet. She did not. She took it to a rescue. The rescue rehomed the dog to a single person who had no children. The dog lived a long, happy life, and called up the original owner to give her a chance to say goodbye to him when he had to be put down due to cancer.

So, rehoming CAN work!


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

tim_s_adams said:


> A truly dog aggressive dog is a pretty rare commodity. But if dog reactivity goes unaddressed for a prolonged period, it can look the same. In this case, I don't think it would be possible to know which one the OP is dealing with without seeing the dog in person.
> 
> That being said, I've never been big on the idea of re-homing dogs. To me, and I'm not saying it's the right way or the best way or the only way, when you decide to get a dog it's with you for life. From my perspective, that mindset sort of changes your approach to working with the dog. To roughly quote something another member here said awhile back: "Don't ever let your dog do anything that makes you not like them"! I absolutely love that perspective, because to me it says "don't put up with bad behavior" whatever that is or means for you...just don't allow it! If you don't like it, change it!
> 
> ...


It should also be pointed out that a dog that is “just reactive” is not easy for a lot of people to deal with. Both the dog and the person have a lot of learned/practiced behaviors going on, which need to be broken. Those habits are incredibly difficult to break for most people. That is where a good board and train will succeed. The b&t will prove the DOG can do it. But the owner still has to break old habits for things to be better in the long run. There’s still management. It’s not for everyone. 

I’m frankly surprised that someone with as much dog experience as you say you have doesn’t see that rehoming can be beneficial in some circumstances. The dog benefits from having a new owner more equipped to handle the issue, and the one doing the rehoming doesn’t have to continue to be in over their head. I’m not advocating for rehoming in this case, though I certainly would not fault the owner for realizing the dog was not a good fit for them, if that is what they ultimately decide. I’ve seen numerous dogs rehomed for one reason or another (have one that was rehomed to me, as well), and it was always done in a careful way, with the best interest of the dogs at the heart of the decision. I’m sure most people do not go into dog ownership with the mindset that it’s not “forever”. But things happen, and thank goodness there are people out there who are willing to admit when a dog is too much for them.


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## desinif (Jul 15, 2017)

Hi chiming in a little later here, but I wanted to share my experience recently this year with Luna and a board and train we went with in Oklahoma. Luna became fearful of both people and dogs around 9 months old after what I believe was a negative experience for her as well as overall anxiety. After having gotten to a point I was fearful that she was becoming aggressive and reactive, we settled on a board and train program that also followed up with at home lessons 1on1 for 1-2 months.

I do NOT regret spending the money on a trainer and board and train. The ONLY thing I regret was not realizing that my dog wasn't aggressive, she was fearful and had a lot of anxiety, so it made training harder for her and there was better options for a dog that was afraid and anxious. So please just be careful and watch how your dog is and at any point if things seem off, or it's making ANYTHING worse, be sure to re-evaluate what's going on. That said, we solved a lot of her problems, though, so I will not say it made anything worse because it did make a lot of issues better and there's no new problems. Her walk and respect of the leash is amazing, she loves her walks now. Before, she would react to seeing someone down the road, react harshly. She no longer reacts to anyone or anything on our walks. She no longer gets so anxious in the car and vomits, she lays down in her seat and does great. She has significantly improved with 1on1 meeting new dogs, and actually plays and does really well with new dogs which she was too fearful to before. We have successfully left her with new family members that she bonded with, and while she still struggles with people at the very beginning and we are still very careful to make sure she isn't meeting someone in uncomfortable situations, she has started allowing people to bond with her.

The only problem we still have is larger groups, more than 1-2 dogs at a time, and she gets every quickly anxious say when we take her to public stores with a lot going on (which I just don't do.) She does great at the parks when she has a task to focus on and isn't forced to be too close to anyone or anything that makes her anxious. So we just make sure to be careful in the situations we know are hard for her and continue to work on helping her be comfortable at her own pace.

I will say I was at my wits end before the training. I'm glad it sounds like you found a good program that should have some positive results, and it's a great decision to look into help for these issues before you give up because I know if I kept going on the path I was with Luna, I would've been left hopeless and might've given up with her as well. But today she's my GIRL and I love her to bits and I see so much improvement and confidence after training with her (which for us, was a balanced training program not solely focused on positive, because just positive NEVER worked for us. But I do think the program relied a little too heavily on corrections for an anxious dog, which was mine and the trainer's fault for not realizing how bad her anxiety and fear is.) It's been about 4 months since we ended our training with that program and we are doing much better now.

You may end up surprised in what you can work out with your dog. 

Also, if things don't improve for you or Nico, I'm not against rehoming a dog into an environment that would suit the dog and help you live a more fulfilling life as well. If it's something that will benefit you both and give you both a chance to find a happy, comfortable life, than so be it, but I think it's a great option to exhaust in trying to work through this with training. It's a lot of work and you do have to be consistent to help your dog work through these problems, but there's no shame in making a decision either way. I wish you all the best.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

GypsyGhost said:


> ...
> I’m frankly surprised that someone with as much dog experience as you say you have doesn’t see that rehoming can be beneficial in some circumstances...


Here's what I said about that:



> I realise there may be cases when re-homing a dog might be the best option for all concerned...


???


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

tim_s_adams said:


> Here's what I said about that:
> 
> 
> 
> ???





> That being said, I've never been big on the idea of re-homing dogs. To me, and I'm not saying it's the right way or the best way or the only way, when you decide to get a dog it's with you for life. From my perspective, that mindset sort of changes your approach to working with the dog


This sounds very much anti-rehoming to me. I’m glad you haven’t experienced a dog that you felt was too much for you, or one that doesn’t really fit in with your lifestyle, or one you plain just don’t connect with, and I hope you never do. But this statement just doesn’t say “I support the well thought out re-homing of dogs” to me.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

GypsyGhost said:


> This sounds very much anti-rehoming to me. I’m glad you haven’t experienced a dog that you felt was too much for you, or one that doesn’t really fit in with your lifestyle, or one you plain just don’t connect with, and I hope you never do. But this statement just doesn’t say “I support the well thought out re-homing of dogs” to me.


Well, at least you read that part correctly, I am very much anti-rehoming in general...I think I made that clear, as well as my reasoning for that position! I also made it quite clear * I hope * that I was stating my opinion, and that it wasn't necessarily right or the best or the only way to look at it...but I guess you missed that part.

I can honestly say I too am glad that I've never had a dog that was too much for me, but I think those other reasons are EXACTLY the point I was making in my post! Dog's are not pieces of clothing to be tried on and then discarded because they're no longer in fashion. They are, as WIBackpacker said, "amazingly resilient. In many ways, they are more resilient than humans...". I fully agree with that! But they are also not inanimate objects that ever come to you pre-programmed to be the dog of your dreams...it takes a lot of work to help them get there!

Call me old-fashioned, but I look at dog ownership as a commitment. When you get a dog, *not a foster - nothing I said had anything at all to do with people taking temporary care of a dog in need* - you sign up for the work involved in making that dog into the BEST dog it can be! I would venture to guess that the majority of dogs in rescues and shelters got very little of that effort... And again, THAT is my opinion. Feel free to disagree...


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

tim_s_adams said:


> Well, at least you read that part correctly, I am very much anti-rehoming in general...I think I made that clear, as well as my reasoning for that position! I also made it quite clear * I hope * that I was stating my opinion, and that it wasn't necessarily right or the best or the only way to look at it...but I guess you missed that part.
> 
> I can honestly say I too am glad that I've never had a dog that was too much for me, but I think those other reasons are EXACTLY the point I was making in my post! Dog's are not pieces of clothing to be tried on and then discarded because they're no longer in fashion. They are, as WIBackpacker said, "amazingly resilient. In many ways, they are more resilient than humans...". I fully agree with that! But they are also not inanimate objects that ever come to you pre-programmed to be the dog of your dreams...it takes a lot of work to help them get there!
> 
> Call me old-fashioned, but I look at dog ownership as a commitment. When you get a dog, *not a foster - nothing I said had anything at all to do with people taking temporary care of a dog in need* - you sign up for the work involved in making that dog into the BEST dog it can be! I would venture to guess that the majority of dogs in rescues and shelters got very little of that effort... And again, THAT is my opinion. Feel free to disagree...


Setting aside the fact that you played both sides of the coin and then called my reading comprehension skills into question... of course dogs take work. And of course they are not disposable. But my position remains unchanged. Being more on the working/sport dog side of things than the pet dog side, many people responsibly rehome for many reasons other than “too much dog”. While I support and commend pet owners who realize they have been outmatched and rehome to more experienced people where the dog thrives and can truly reach their potential, I also support breeders who rehome dogs that wash from their program, and sport and working people who do not have space for a dog that won’t work. I’ve seen it done responsibly numerous times, and I can guarantee none of the dogs that were rehomed in those situations were thought of as disposable. It’s often a heart wrenching decision to watch a dog you love go elsewhere. I’ve seen people be completely broken over having to rehome a dog they love in order to keep their breeding program up and running. You’re trying to make this situation more black and white than it is. 

Sometimes the best thing you can do for the dog you committed to is to give them a life where they are able to be more successful. And to be clear, I am in no way, shape or form talking about people who do not research before getting a dog, buy from a byb because the puppy is cute, then decide it’s too much work once the puppy turns 6 months old. I’m speaking to the the people who have put in the time, the effort and the love and discovered it still wasn’t enough.

I’m not advocating that people don’t try... I’m just not willing to condemn someone, especially if they HAVE tried, for finding certain things are not acceptable to them. In my opinion, it does not mean they went into dog ownership expecting to not have to do the work. It doesn’t mean they didn’t try. I have a fear aggressive dog, who is also reactive to other dogs, and it’s not fun. He’s managed now, but it was not a walk in the park to get there. After going through what I have gone through with him, I could clearly understand why someone would not want to live their life this way. It works for me, and I manage him just fine, but it wouldn’t work for everyone. I would not be as happy as I am if he was my only dog, though. I am able to enjoy him for who he is and meet his needs, but my other dogs are the ones I get to compete with. And for those that want to be active (or compete in sports) but can only properly care for one dog, having that one dog be one that is inappropriately aggressive or reactive can be devastating. Yes, of course some things can be worked through, but not everything can.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

GypsyGhost said:


> Setting aside the fact that you played both sides of the coin and then called my reading comprehension skills into question... of course dogs take work. And of course they are not disposable. But my position remains unchanged. Being more on the working/sport dog side of things than the pet dog side, many people responsibly rehome for many reasons other than “too much dog”. While I support and commend pet owners who realize they have been outmatched and rehome to more experienced people where the dog thrives and can truly reach their potential, I also support breeders who rehome dogs that wash from their program, and sport and working people who do not have space for a dog that won’t work. I’ve seen it done responsibly numerous times, and I can guarantee none of the dogs that were rehomed in those situations were thought of as disposable. It’s often a heart wrenching decision to watch a dog you love go elsewhere. I’ve seen people be completely broken over having to rehome a dog they love in order to keep their breeding program up and running. You’re trying to make this situation more black and white than it is.
> 
> Sometimes the best thing you can do for the dog you committed to is to give them a life where they are able to be more successful. And to be clear, I am in no way, shape or form talking about people who do not research before getting a dog, buy from a byb because the puppy is cute, then decide it’s too much work once the puppy turns 6 months old. I’m speaking to the the people who have put in the time, the effort and the love and discovered it still wasn’t enough.
> 
> I’m not advocating that people don’t try... I’m just not willing to condemn someone, especially if they HAVE tried, for finding certain things are not acceptable to them. In my opinion, it does not mean they went into dog ownership expecting to not have to do the work. It doesn’t mean they didn’t try. I have a fear aggressive dog, who is also reactive to other dogs, and it’s not fun. He’s managed now, but it was not a walk in the park to get there. After going through what I have gone through with him, I could clearly understand why someone would not want to live their life this way. It works for me, and I manage him just fine, but it wouldn’t work for everyone. I would not be as happy as I am if he was my only dog, though. I am able to enjoy him for who he is and meet his needs, but my other dogs are the ones I get to compete with. And for those that want to be active (or compete in sports) but can only properly care for one dog, having that one dog be one that is inappropriately aggressive or reactive can be devastating. Yes, of course some things can be worked through, but not everything can.


Fantastic post that says it all!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I think a board and train with a good trainer is the way to go here. They can get the dog below threshold and accustomed to being around other dogs without practicing bad habits. It will then be a matter of not letting the dog slide back into bad habits. Don't hesitate to go back to the trainer for a couple sessions from time to time if necessary.

As to re-homing dogs; if the dog ends up happier, healthier, safer, better in their new home, it's a win. I have been the middle man for many re-homed dogs that ended up with a great fitting family that loved and cared for them.

I just got another Cane Corso with bite history off Facebook. He may stay with us forever, or he may go to another suitable home with lifetime training if he needs it. A couple had the dog for 2 years before they divorced. He had bitten a couple people over the years and the wife didn't want him. The husband moved to an apartment where he couldn't have the dog. He ended up with the husband's sister.

It is a very active household with 4 kids and their friends, 3 other dogs, and the husband of the sister didn't like the dog at all. Poor boy was freaking out, nipped a couple kids (no blood) and was getting worse everyday. They tried "everything" to no avail and they were scared that he was going to really hurt somebody. He was urinating and defecating all over the house when they were gone. He would hardly eat. 

Saturday - they dropped him off and he was very uncomfortable anywhere near me. He was fine with the other dogs and the wife. He refused any food. 

Sunday - when I came out of my room into the living room in the morning, he full on charged me and then went into frightened barking avoidance, keeping a piece of furniture between us at all times. He charged me ever time I came into the house. He got better through the day but still refused any food.

Monday - the morning went better. He only barked for a couple minutes and then came in to check me out. We ended up doing about 5 short clicker sessions with hot-dogs that day. Still barked when I walked in the house, but only a couple times.

Tuesday - no morning ritual. Lots of training and he started asking for attention. 

Wednesday - tail wagging in the morning. Several planned visitors with increasingly good reactions. He finally ate a full meal. I could come and go without any barking. Good greetings at the door.

Today - He jumped up in bed with me this morning wanting belly rubs. Several training sessions. A walk in the park around strangers with a few act ups, but he was ready to follow my lead and move on. I got kisses at the door when I came home after lunch. He ate like a horse this afternoon.


Aggression can come from a lot of places. It can also be a habit. Knowing how to change habits is what behavioral training is all about. Will he ever compete in PSA... not a chance, but he can be a happy SAFE pet.

There's a chance this will be a foster fail LOL... He's stinking adorable and my granddaughter LOVES him to death


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

tim_s_adams said:


> Well, at least you read that part correctly, I am very much anti-rehoming in general...I think I made that clear, as well as my reasoning for that position! I also made it quite clear * I hope * that I was stating my opinion, and that it wasn't necessarily right or the best or the only way to look at it...but I guess you missed that part.
> 
> I can honestly say I too am glad that I've never had a dog that was too much for me, but I think those other reasons are EXACTLY the point I was making in my post! Dog's are not pieces of clothing to be tried on and then discarded because they're no longer in fashion. They are, as WIBackpacker said, "amazingly resilient. In many ways, they are more resilient than humans...". I fully agree with that! But they are also not inanimate objects that ever come to you pre-programmed to be the dog of your dreams...it takes a lot of work to help them get there!
> 
> Call me old-fashioned, but I look at dog ownership as a commitment. When you get a dog, *not a foster - nothing I said had anything at all to do with people taking temporary care of a dog in need* - you sign up for the work involved in making that dog into the BEST dog it can be! I would venture to guess that the majority of dogs in rescues and shelters got very little of that effort... And again, THAT is my opinion. Feel free to disagree...


As a man, its offensive when a man talks down to women. This is where the term mansplaining comes from.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

David Winners said:


> I think a board and train with a good trainer is the way to go here. They can get the dog below threshold and accustomed to being around other dogs without practicing bad habits. It will then be a matter of not letting the dog slide back into bad habits. Don't hesitate to go back to the trainer for a couple sessions from time to time if necessary.
> 
> As to re-homing dogs; if the dog ends up happier, healthier, safer, better in their new home, it's a win. I have been the middle man for many re-homed dogs that ended up with a great fitting family that loved and cared for them.
> 
> ...


What an awesome success story David thanks for sharing this, and for giving that dog a home!

To put the whole subject of re-homing into perspective though, here are some statistics for the U.S. from the ASPCA website:

- 3.3 million dogs enter shelters every year

- 1.6 million dogs are adopted out each year

- 620,000 dogs are returned to their owners

- 670,000 dogs are euthanized each year

- it is estimated that 78 million dogs are owned, roughly 44% of all households have a dog

- only 34% of these dogs come from a breeder

- pet problems are the most common reason that owners rehome their pet, accounting for 47% of rehomed dogs 

https://www.aspca.org/animal-homelessness/shelter-intake-and-surrender/pet-statistics

Truly sobering! And bear in mind these numbers do not include FB or CL, or any of the dog's responsibly re-homed that Gypsy was talking about...


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I feel like poor Shadow has become my example for everything wrong about dogs! Poor Punk.

Anyway, I have an 8 year old girl who is massively dog reactive/dog aggressive. She is 50lbs of fury, bent on getting them before they get her. Believe me when I tell you she puts every ounce of that measly 50lbs to good use, I have often likened walking her to being dragged by a truck. She clearly believes that a good offense is the best defense!

We spent YEARS working on look at me and only me when you are afraid, and most of her aggression stems from fear. Frustrating? Yup. But this hugely problematic little girl has put the joy IN my life, not taken it away. She is my little light, she has renewed my pleasure in the little things and shown me what it means to smile in the face of adversity. Those first few years were rough but she never gave up on me.

I am more curious about the things not mentioned. What is this dogs breeding first of all, where did you get him? What does his day to day life look like? What do you do together? Where does he sleep? 

I totally agree that you need a trainer but it sounds like your whole relationship is damaged and hopefully a good trainer can help you repair that.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

Looking at statistics, they look like they're just a bunch of number but when one really thinks about it... 3 millions of ANYTHING is A LOT. Just pointing out my thoughts...


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> As a man, its offensive when a man talks down to women. This is where the term mansplaining comes from.


Normally I wouldn't respond to you with a comment like this due to history...But for what it's worth...gender was never a factor. We all have opinions...

Seriously? I understand loyalty, but come on man...go back and read my original post! Not now or EVER any gender bias intended or implied...


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

tim_s_adams said:


> David Winners said:
> 
> 
> > I think a board and train with a good trainer is the way to go here. They can get the dog below threshold and accustomed to being around other dogs without practicing bad habits. It will then be a matter of not letting the dog slide back into bad habits. Don't hesitate to go back to the trainer for a couple sessions from time to time if necessary.
> ...


Responsibly re-homing a dog doesn't involve a shelter.

I volunteer board and train dogs for both my local shelters to increase the chance that dogs will be adopted. I know how many dogs run through the shelters.

I guess my main point is that dogs change hands because life sometimes sucks. It doesn't always have to be a tragedy. Dogs are flexible and can adapt to NOW fairly well.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

David Winners said:


> Responsibly re-homing a dog doesn't involve a shelter.
> 
> I volunteer board and train dogs for both my local shelters to increase the chance that dogs will be adopted. I know how many dogs run through the shelters.
> 
> I guess my main point is that dogs change hands because life sometimes sucks. It doesn't always have to be a tragedy. Dogs are flexible and can adapt to NOW fairly well.


Yep, we're in total agreement! Stuff happens and always will...good that there are folks that step up to help! 

But dude, 670,000 dogs per year are euthanized in shelters. What do you see as the answer to that? If not a perspective shift, what?

My post, that started the highjack of this thread, which I feel bad about now!, was just a heartfelt, opinion about how perspective when dealing with a puppy or dog can make all the difference in how you work with them, view them, and how you interact with them. That's all. Go back, anyone reading this, and read my post. I'm not condemning anyone, or even criticizing anyone...just a heartfelt plea for people to shift their perspective. If you look at your new dog or puppy as permanent, you're less likely to overlook and tolerate bad behaviors that will lead you to not liking your dog. If you like your dog I think you'd be less likely to neglect or re-home them...

My post was stated as opinion, but perhaps should have been more clearly stated as a passion. I love dogs, all dogs. 670,000 dying each year in shelters is just unacceptable to me...sorry. I have tears in my eyes as I'm typing this...it literally breaks my heart.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

tim_s_adams said:


> David Winners said:
> 
> 
> > Responsibly re-homing a dog doesn't involve a shelter.
> ...


Tim, I totally understand your pain and your passion, but sometimes finding a good home for a dog keeps it out of the shelter.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

tim_s_adams said:


> Yep, we're in total agreement! Stuff happens and always will...good that there are folks that step up to help!
> 
> But dude, 670,000 dogs per year are euthanized in shelters. What do you see as the answer to that? If not a perspective shift, what?
> 
> ...


Buying from good breeders who care about their breed, their puppies and their puppies’ owners is the best way to combat the number of dogs that end up in shelters. Good breeders properly vet potential buyers, understand what they are breeding, take responsibility for what they produce and understand how to place the right puppy with the right buyer. Good breeders will take back a puppy if someone can no longer care for it. So, short answer to a long problem is don’t support BYBs. Support ethical breeders. People looking for a puppy often cannot fathom paying the price that good breeders charge, especially when someone down the street just bred their pets and are charging a few hundred dollars for a puppy. They don’t realize the value in having a good breeder as a resource for the life of the dog. But that purchase just proved to the BYB that there is money to be made off their dogs. The cycle continues.

It’s obviously a multi-faceted problem, but most dogs that end up in the shelter are not from responsible breeders. It should be noted that I do not put shelter dogs and dogs being privately rehomed for whatever reason in the same category. Finding someone knowledgeable who happens to be a better fit for your dog than you are is not the same as dumping a dog at the shelter.

And also, I’ve fostered and owned dogs that were just dumped at a shelter, and many of them were fantastic dogs. This is not a knock on those that choose to get a dog from a rescue or shelter instead of a breeder. If you choose to get a dog from a rescue or shelter, please choose one that makes an effort to responsibly match their dogs to potential new families. Yes, it’s sad that so many dogs end up in the shelter, and that so many are euthanized. The type of rehoming I advocate does not add to that problem. Irresponsible breeders and irresponsible buyers definitely do, though.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

David Winners said:


> Tim, I totally understand your pain and your passion, but sometimes finding a good home for a dog keeps it out of the shelter.


I never have ever posted or said anything different. I never said re-homing a dog was a bad thing...per se.

But let's be real. These dogs that are rehomed without ever entering the shelter system, are a small small small fraction of the dog's that are not so lucky. But it's all good! We've probably MORE than hijacked the OP's thread here for long enough LOL!

I like your perspective though, and I look forward to talking with you further!

Secretly, I'm actually hoping to hear more about the rehab of the Cane Corso's biting tendencies. My experience has been that what you're told ain't often what you get... And by that I mean, more often than not, aggressive dogs just plain aren't. But I'm honestly looking forward to updates on that boy, so please keep us posted! Sounds like a misunderstood dog...and I don't even like Cane Corsos


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You don't like Cane Corsos, yet this is a quote from your earlier post today. "I love dogs, all dogs" ?


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> You don't like Cane Corsos, yet this is a quote from your earlier post today. "I love dogs, all dogs" ?


What an insightful contribution to the conversation Wolfy, you got me there...


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Truly I have not heard anyone promote a anti rehoming campaign on this thread. The points are -do all you can before you make the rehoming decision just as the op has researched and planned (even though he was unsure and questioned himself which many people do in making big decisions ) any dog is owed just that and can be worth it. I see no controversy in this. 

For people reading this thread I hope people know what rehoming actually is if a dog does not fit into once lifestyle, bad match or life happens. It means being diligent in a finding a better capable home and cared for life to be the goal. Dogs do deserve to be happy and loved and in the right home. 

Our first gsd was from owners who could not care for him as life hit them over the head. I will be forever greatful. They often visited karat in my home until they saw he was comfortable and bonded which took a few weeks. Them visiting was not easy on the dog in the beginning, as resilient as they are -I would not recommend it. 

The majority of dogs that are often given up come from all kinds of places and are dumped and found at shelters as Tim has mentioned are not the dogs that responsible owners who rehome. Often as GypsyGhost mentioned dogs are often mismatched to new owners by shelters. So many just come from irresponsible owners who do not care enough. 

A video about the serious issues of dogs who are abandoned and not even dropped off at shelters. 
https://youtu.be/Dvh_jw0slH0


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

And sometimes, people hang on way too long to a dangerous dog...I can think of a couple reasons why. 

and sometimes private parties or rescues alike re-home dangerous dogs that go on to seriously injure people

There are an awful lot of dogs coming out of "rescues" in my area that had bite histories, sometimes serious ones and sometimes from a serious dog, and were adopted out to some bleeding heart.

I never thought I would be this person, but I am getting pretty cynical and becoming that person...I've volunteered for two different GSD rescues, one run much better than the other but still neither responsible for the type of thing I described above

Very, very few people are willing and able to do the type of strict management required to keep a dog like that from hurting someone. 

The longer I am involved with a lot of dogs the less tolerance i have for some of the "rescuing" going on, and the more I appreciate a dog from a quality breeder. I'm beginning to think like a lot of other things we've swung too far on this too

PS I don't know where the sunglasses emoji came from...


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I've got no problem with rehoming a dog responsibly. But how many 'good' homes are out there for a dog-aggressive dog?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OP, are you still around? Have you contacted the breeder?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

tim_s_adams said:


> What an insightful contribution to the conversation Wolfy, you got me there...


:grin2:, yep, just wanted to point out to never say "Never". Tim, don't think that you are the best home for your dog. As your life goes on, you may find yourself in a situation where you cannot keep your dog for the dog's sake, and the dog is better off in another home. Dogs are very flexible and if a new owner gives them what they need, they are fine. How else could we foster dogs and place them (I fostered 15 and placed them)? Then we'd all be hoarders.
I have re-homed 2 of my own dogs. They both had a genetic condition and were better off in another home than mine where they could have a calmer life and live on softer surfaces than mine. They both are in a good place and their owners happy and so am I. 
I am very happy with Deja and Griff but if I get crippled or sick somehow, I will find them home where they can thrive like they are doing now. I owe it to them.

OP, are you still around? Have you contacted the breeder?


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> :grin2:, yep, just wanted to point out to never say "Never". Tim, don't think that you are the best home for your dog. As your life goes on, you may find yourself in a situation where you cannot keep your dog for the dog's sake, and the dog is better off in another home. Dogs are very flexible and if a new owner gives them what they need, they are fine. How else could we foster dogs and place them (I fostered 15 and placed them)? Then we'd all be hoarders.
> I have re-homed 2 of my own dogs. They both had a genetic condition and were better off in another home than mine where they could have a calmer life and live on softer surfaces than mine. They both are in a good place and their owners happy and so am I.
> I am very happy with Deja and Griff but if I get crippled or sick somehow, I will find them home where they can thrive like they are doing now. I owe it to them.
> 
> OP, are you still around? Have you contacted the breeder?


Actually, you and everyone else who've commented on what I'm now calling my "perspective post" are "preaching to the choir", to use an old cliche! I re-homed a dog once (only once!) myself, which Ive mentioned before in other threads. And it was undoubtedly the best thing for her and for us!

She was a beautiful yellow lab that I purchased when she was about 11 months old. I got her just before our youngest son was born, thinking a lab would have a nice soft mouth and be safe and playful with our older son, and that would help minimize the sibling jealousy you read about. It seemed like a good plan at the time!

She was great with both kids too, loved to play fetch, was very careful with her mouth, walked nicely on leash, no reactivity to anything, etc., etc! Just an all around great dog!

What can I say, work got hectic so I was gone 10-12 hours a day, and the dog ended up spending way to much time on her own in the backyard while my wife took care of the two boys. Then she - the dog not the wife thankfully LOL - started escaping to find some companionship, poor thing. Not her fault, ours! Then my company gave me an ultimatum: transfer to another city, or find another job! I truly loved that job, so move we did! 

It was a bad situation for the dog already, and with the impending move and 2 kids under 3 yrs old at the time, re-homing the dog was the right thing to do, no question. 

Fortunately for all concerned, we had a neighbor couple who absolutely adored Rio, and used to even stop by and take her for walks with their other 2 dogs when they were out. So we gave Rio to them! She lived a long and happy life there with them, and the couple sent us pictures and updates throughout her life! Definitely a win-win-win, no question...

I never said it should NEVER be done; what I said is it shouldn't be one's first or frequent go-to when your dog isn't being the PERFECT dog you imagined it would somehow turn itself into!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

tim_s_adams said:


> Actually, you and everyone else who've commented on what I'm now calling my "perspective post" are "preaching to the choir", to use an old cliche! I re-homed a dog once (only once!) myself, which Ive mentioned before in other threads. And it was undoubtedly the best thing for her and for us!
> 
> She was a beautiful yellow lab that I purchased when she was about 11 months old. I got her just before our youngest son was born, thinking a lab would have a nice soft mouth and be safe and playful with our older son, and that would help minimize the sibling jealousy you read about. It seemed like a good plan at the time!
> 
> ...


Tim, you are not being very consistent. So you DID re-home a dog, a great sounding family dog actually that, according to your current standards, seemed silly to give up for the reason your mentioned. What about this earlier post of yours? You can advice whatever you want but it seems like the standards you have for us do not apply to you. Following is a quote from your earlier post. Contradictions in red and blue.

"Well, at least you read that part correctly, I am very much anti-rehoming in general...I think I made that clear, as well as my reasoning for that position! I also made it quite clear * I hope * that I was stating my opinion, and that it wasn't necessarily right or the best or the only way to look at it...but I guess you missed that part.
I can honestly say I too am glad that I've never had a dog that was too much for me, but I think those other reasons are EXACTLY the point I was making in my post! Dog's are not pieces of clothing to be tried on and then discarded because they're no longer in fashion. They are, as WIBackpacker said, "amazingly resilient. In many ways, they are more resilient than humans...". I fully agree with that! But they are also not inanimate objects that ever come to you pre-programmed to be the dog of your dreams...it takes a lot of work to help them get there!

Call me old-fashioned, but I look at dog ownership as a commitment. When you get a dog, not a foster - nothing I said had anything at all to do with people taking temporary care of a dog in need - you sign up for the work involved in making that dog into the BEST dog it can be! I would venture to guess that the majority of dogs in rescues and shelters got very little of that effort... And again, THAT is my opinion. Feel free to disagree..."


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

@Tim, nobody is saying to re-home a less than perfect dog but let's not confuse a less than perfect dog with one that possesses qualities that are deal breakers. A dog should enhance its owner's life, not be an albatross around one's neck.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> Tim, you are not being very consistent. So you DID re-home a dog, a great sounding family dog actually that, according to your current standards, seemed silly to give up for the reason your mentioned. What about this earlier post of yours? You can advice whatever you want but it seems like the standards you have for us do not apply to you. Following is a quote from your earlier post. Contradictions in red and blue.
> 
> "Well, at least you read that part correctly, I am very much anti-rehoming in general...I think I made that clear, as well as my reasoning for that position! I also made it quite clear * I hope * that I was stating my opinion, and that it wasn't necessarily right or the best or the only way to look at it...but I guess you missed that part.
> I can honestly say I too am glad that I've never had a dog that was too much for me, but I think those other reasons are EXACTLY the point I was making in my post! Dog's are not pieces of clothing to be tried on and then discarded because they're no longer in fashion. They are, as WIBackpacker said, "amazingly resilient. In many ways, they are more resilient than humans...". I fully agree with that! But they are also not inanimate objects that ever come to you pre-programmed to be the dog of your dreams...it takes a lot of work to help them get there!
> ...


Sorry @Wolfy I guess you lost me here, I see no contradiction in the highlighted statements. Are you suggesting the Lab was too much dog for me? Or that she wasn't well trained? Can you explain your thinking?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I think this thread is getting weird. Tim's point, I believe, is that as a society we have developed a nasty habit of viewing dogs as disposable. Rehoming should not be a go to response to issues, and it sounds like the OP is onboard to try and work it out.
I feel the same way about marriage. If people would just step back and take the stance that "if I do this it's til death do us part" things would be better. Far too many people view dog ownership like car ownership, I will just trade it in when it no longer suits me.

I gave up Lex when it was plainly evident that what I was dealing with was not healthy for her. I kept Sabi because she was fine as long as she had me. I let a dog I had had for years go with a roomie when he moved out because it was crystal clear to all involved that she belonged with him. 

But none of those situations began with me thinking that I would keep the dogs until I didn't want or need them.


Dogs are living, breathing, feeling creatures. The decision to get a dog should be thought of in lifelong terms and until the thought process shifts we will continue to see heart breaking statistics.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> I think this thread is getting weird. Tim's point, I believe, is that as a society we have developed a nasty habit of viewing dogs as disposable. Rehoming should not be a go to response to issues, and it sounds like the OP is onboard to try and work it out.
> I feel the same way about marriage. If people would just step back and take the stance that "if I do this it's til death do us part" things would be better. Far too many people view dog ownership like car ownership, I will just trade it in when it no longer suits me.
> 
> I gave up Lex when it was plainly evident that what I was dealing with was not healthy for her. I kept Sabi because she was fine as long as she had me. I let a dog I had had for years go with a roomie when he moved out because it was crystal clear to all involved that she belonged with him.
> ...


BINGO! Well said!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I don't believe this is about not wanting or needing "anymore". This is about traits that were never wanted in the first place.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

tim_s_adams said:


> Sorry @Wolfy I guess you lost me here, I see no contradiction in the highlighted statements. Are you suggesting the Lab was too much dog for me? Or that she wasn't well trained? Can you explain your thinking?


The colored quotes are contradictions to me. Maybe we disagree, which is OK. Over and out respectfully.


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## mikeyg (Aug 25, 2015)

Hey everyone - 

You might've noticed I'm not a frequent board dweller (as I was when I first got him years back), but he went into the board and train today, and wanted to update.

Here's my thinking: a good trainer will reveal what the dog is capable of. I think Nico can do it. I do strongly suspect it's "just" fear or anxiety, and that he can be trained to operate under his threshold. Something I don't think I mentioned is that he can interact with other dogs in very controlled environments. Although extremely excited in her presence, he's fine with my sister's puppy, for example. So we can work with or around this.

Another thing - since about the time of the thread weeks back, I stopped trying to go out and desensitize him to other dogs. Instead, we would play ball in the apartment (despite it being an apartment, it has an entire section of the living room just for him to play, and a long hallway the length of the entire house that he loves to chase his ball down), sometimes in the park when there was space, or play "find it" nose games inside. He loves to play with my roommate, too. At night, not being summer anymore, he comes on his own up to sleep with me on the bed.

Without the stress of other dogs around him, I'm allowing him to be the best dog he can be. It was great, and to be rather simplistic about it, he was happy, and I was happy.

Of course, hopefully the trainer can unlock a way to allow his indoor calmness and attention on me to continue outdoors, or with other dogs nearby, or in the presence of a ball he's not supposed to play with :-D

I might have one update mid-session if I get an update from the trainer. Otherwise, I'll be in touch in three weeks.

P.S. Since someone asked in these pages of threads, the breeder was ***removed by moderator*** north of Boston. I've been conflicted in the past as to whether I should write a detailed review at some point, but I would never recommend them, in fact, I would say run if their name is involved. I had messaged some littermates' parents, and another had a similar issue to mine. She also revealed that up there (they live closer to the breeder) their trainer frequently receives dogs for behavior modification from ***removed by moderator*** That's just the tip of the iceberg, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to share everything publicly on this forum.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I did not read every single post, so it may be that this has already been mentioned. My Newlie, who I adopted when he was somewhere between one and two years old, was like your dog in that he loved people but was reactive to some dogs. Not all dogs, mind you, but some and there was no common denominator that I could see in the ones he didn't like. So, I felt like I had to be hyper-vigilant when I took him out to make sure that nothing bad happened. I know the feeling of scanning the streets to see if any dogs might be approaching and constantly being aware of your surroundings. Some days, I just didn't have it in me to take him for a walk because of having to face down that fear. I was 56 years old when I got Newlie, and he was a big, strong adolescent shepherd, and even though he wore a prong, I still was always afraid he would get away from me. He did hurt another little dog badly at one point, but it was because he and a neighbors little dog decided to fight UNDERNEATH the chain link fence in the backyard. I paid half the medical bills and put up a privacy fence on that side so it could never happen again. Newlie did go to training and did improve partly because of that, partly because he got a little older and partly because I learned more about managing him. He died in my arms last December of cancer. I loved that dog dearly, but when I went looking for another dog to adopt, I made it clear that I did not want another reactive dog.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think the most valuable piece of information that I got from this forum is this: Stop the reactivity before it gets started. Once a dog is acting crazy, barking and lunging, etc, it's very difficult, if not impossible to stop it. I was told to observe and watch for the signals that would indicate what was ABOUT to happen and you know, once I started watching, it was so easy to see. With Newlie, he would stop dead, his neck would extend and his head and his ears go way up and there would be a laser focus to his eyes. That was when when I learned to interrupt. It might be a stern "leave it," turning around and going in the opposite direction, or even blocking his view. Having those few seconds to stop the cascade before it happened was invaluable to me. I hope it helps you, too.

As others have mentioned, it is not important that he interact with other dogs, it's only important that he learn to ignore them.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Wishing you and Nico the best with this and hope that it is just what is needed to allow you both to enjoy what you have envisioned doing together.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Glad to hear and wishing you and Nico all the best!


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Rooting for Nico!! 

Hope you will update on how it goes.


I have basically seen two types of training (I had looked into this because of my own dog's issues - although his were more minor): 

1. The Strict Way: Dog gets blast of air or a prong correction for reacting badly to another dog. Dog's reaction gets "shut down" because he learns that he had better obey his owner - and that reacting/lunging/barking brings bad results. Trainer's attitude is calm, nonemotional. 

2. The Dr.Sophia Yin Way: She trains dog to walk and sit while focusing on her. She is always upbeat and cheerful. She walks the dog closer and closer to other dogs, all the while keeping its focus solely on her. Eventually she can "Sit" the dog next to another dog, and it's calmly ignoring the other dog. At that point, she allows the dog to meet the other dog. In its calm frame of mind, introduction goes well.

It will probably turn out be some combo of both #1 and #2, I suspect...!


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