# RAW and puppy question



## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

I've decided to switch Ava to RAW now instead of waiting. She's currently on TOTW Pacific Stream (I know, I know..not good for a puppy). That is what the breeder had her on. Right now she is emptying her bowels 5x a day..and not just a little bit..a TON!! I think that is waaaay to much. I've never had a dog have that many bowel movements a day!

Anyway, from all the research I have done, I just want some of you experienced RAW feeders to make sure I am right, please....(I suck at math):help::help:

Ava will be 8 weeks old on tuesday and weighs 7 lbs. Her mother and her sister from another litter are approx. 70 lbs. 

So I am calculating Ava's goal weight to be 70lbs x 16 ounces per lb =1120 ounces x 2% of body weight = 22.40 (round up to 23 ounces). So...I should feed her 23 ounces of food per day. 23 ounces divided by 2 meals per day = 11.50 ounces per meal. 50% RMB & 50% MM so 5.75 ounces of each RMB & MM. (I will add OM maybe next week).

For RMB....I was going to start her off on either chicken wings or chicken necks...thinking she could handle those the best at her age. AND for MM I was planning on starting her on diced chicken breast or ground chicken.

Please please please let me know if what I am thinking sounds correct or what I am doing wrong. I want to get to the store today!!!! I will also pick up some Salmon Oil, plain yogert and Vit. E. (do you all to human grade salmon oil and vit e or is there a canine version?)

Thanks so much all I great appreciate your advise!!!:hug:


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

I believe for a puppy, it isn't 3% of expected weight, it is 5 % of current weight. Can you really imagine giving an 8 week old puppy almost 2 POUNDS of food? Lord.. she would be HUGE

Salmon Oil... I started using pet store salmon oil, but it is not at all reasonjable price wise, so human grade I believe.... I would almost thing that... human salmon oil would be better for them, because it seems we " 2-leggers" get the better quality of things that come out of the factory... Look at dog food! 

Lastly... you are doing about what I started,. 50%MM, 50%RMB... and just threw in a pieve of liver every few days. I think bone wise, yes, chicken necks seem to work, my pup was eating them in the beginning, though it did take a while for him to eat them! Hope this helps somewhat... Check out the www.rawdogranch.com and www.Leerburg.com


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Puppies do eat alot, they are growing...I fed Karlo that amount as well and changed it during growth spurts or if he felt like he was getting too much. I fed 3 meals a day til 16 weeks. Also had a problem with him barfing bile in the early morning so I gave him a midnight snack, too. He was a big pup and gained about 3# a week average. I used my hands as a guide more than his weight in portioning meals.
His average was/is close to 2# daily, from about 4 months on.

As far as the supplements go, I use human grade from grocery pharmacy, & get the pure salmon oil/ vitaminE. You can also supplement with vitamin C(500mg) when the pup is about 4 months.

I fed Karlo wings, necks at that age along with ground turkey, venison and fresh(frozen) green tripe. A bit of beef or chicken liver daily. If you can find kidney, go for it!
Chicken backs are good too, as some have the organ meat attached(once she is eating the other stuff fine).
Karlo inhaled his food, he could gulp down a chicken neck quickly. He went to small leg 1/4s early on. And turkey neck chunks were a favorite!


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## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

VaBeachFamily said:


> I believe for a puppy, it isn't 3% of expected weight, it is 5 % of current weight. Can you really imagine giving an 8 week old puppy almost 2 POUNDS of food? Lord.. she would be HUGE


 
I haven't found that information on any site about using 5% of current weight. I have been to rawdogranch and leerburg's website. If I calculate 5% of her current weight that would only be 6.5 ounces of food a day which doesn't seem like much at all. Ugh...this is all soooo confusing!:crazy::help:


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

Actually, the 5% sounds about right. I used to feed Wolfie Primal Raw Nuggets for a while (not as a pup though) and the packet suggested 4% of current weight for pups between 8 weeks to 1 year. I agree with VABeach -- 2 lbs for an 8 week old pup seems like a lot. 7oz of food may seem low but I remember I was weighing Wolfie practically everyday when he was that age. So you'll probably be adjusting the food upwards on an almost daily basis as the pup grows, at least for the first couple of months. That's my take on this. Hopefully, some of the expert raw feeders can weigh in here about puppy nutrition.


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## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

Yep...I went back to Leerburg's site and look around more thoroughly. I did find a puppy section and he said 5-10% of current weight. It just doesn't seem like very much food but with her growing it will change every few days I bet. 

Thanks all for the advise!!:thumbup:


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## rodney757 (Feb 12, 2010)

When I started Bear at 4 months I gave him 2.5 % of his expected weight of 70 lbs. I had to give him more as he was getting a little skinny. I am currently feeding him 36 oz. a day. I don't believe it is too much as he is still on the skinny side and doesn't have excess or runny poop. It sounds like a lot of food but they need it. The only thing I have found that he has a hard time eating is turkey wings. Turkey necks, backs, and anything chicken are no problem for him at 19 wks.


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## ZAYDA (Apr 22, 2010)

I would just make sure your puppy stays lean @ what ever amount you need to feed just keep an eye on his weight and do not over feed the protein.
If you decide to give him salmon oil make sure to supplement 4iu of vit. E.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You mean 400iu? No more than that for a daily dosage.
Turkey wings are alot of bone, skin and tendons. I don't like feeding them or the drums. Turkeys live longer than the chickens we feed, so the bone is more dense, the only thing bonewise I feed are necks.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Yes, one everything LOL. With Cullen, he gets weighed at least once a week to adjust food properly, so for Gizmo, becing at a steady weight at the tender old age of 10, I can completely pre-freeze her whole meals.... aside from the veggies/fruits, which I freeze seperately... Cullen though, I weigh out each type of thing on an average and have a bag full of RMBs that are 2-3OZ, 4-5 OZ, and so on, because his changes so often, prepacking for a month in advance doesn't work for him...

If you decide to do the veggies.... I have found that pureeing them with Chicken or beef broth makes it easier to get the dogs to eat it... and try to steer clear of broccoli and asparagus, dog have never had worse gas in their lives! Now, gizmo eats around 2.5 percent of her weight being older, and during the summer when she's more active we up it a big. Cullen gets aropund 8% of his, because he is active all the time, on the go all the time, and starting Schutzhund, which has us even MORE active with him! And he is thin also, it's just a thing, I think at least 80 % of GSDs hit the awkward thing lanky stage


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## ZAYDA (Apr 22, 2010)

Yes 400IU sorry.


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## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

Well...I started Ava yesterday afternoon. It went well!!! One thing that has me WAY concerned is she isnt chewing the chicken wing. She swallowed it WHOLE!!!! How bad is this???? THis morning I got the meat mallot out and pounded the wing down some to crush the bones a bit. She STILL swallowed it whole!! I am really concerned about this. All you RAW people please help!!!! She's only had 2 bowel movements since yesterday afternoon which is a HUGE plus. They are soft but they were also soft when she was eating kibble. Is this normal?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Karlo swallowed them whole, too, that is why I went to thighs earlier than normal!
I would maybe cut them up for a bit til she starts chewing, & serve partially frozen.


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## ZAYDA (Apr 22, 2010)

You may have to grind them up for her because gulping whole like that is not good on several levels. Or giving her something larger would make her chew it more.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

Okay.....there was a lot of conflicting information and here is whay I know/read when I was researching raw. 

For a puppy, you want to start out with either 10% of the 8 week old puppy weight or 2% of the projected adult weight and adjust as needed. 

Are you sure she is only 7 lbs? That seems very small even for a female? When was the last time she was weighed? Before getting measurements, I would make sure you have an accurate weight measurement. I know you could hold her and subtract your own weight at your home scale.

Chicken necks are probably not a great choice even for a pup. Chicken wings (kinda pricey where I live) and chicken backs are a better choice. It will also help her learn to chew her food, if you hold one side and make her chew off pieces, Also if you feed it to her still partially frozen, it will slow her down.

Also I feed the human version of both fish oil and vitamin e. Make sure you buy the natural vitamin E and not the synthetic.


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## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

GSDSunshine said:


> Okay.....there was a lot of conflicting information and here is whay I know/read when I was researching raw.
> 
> For a puppy, you want to start out with either 10% of the 8 week old puppy weight or 2% of the projected adult weight and adjust as needed.
> 
> ...


 
I weighed myself w/ her on my home scale then weighed just myself. Yes, 7 lbs yesterday. 7.5 lbs tonite. She was 6.8 last friday at the vets office. She does seem tiny but she is gaining weight so i'm not overly concerned there.

I've been giving her chicken wings. I cant find backs yet. She is a gulper. I tried holding it for her but she about bit off my whole hand. LOL. I'm afraid if I feed it particially frozen she will still just gulp it down whole. 

I am feeding her also the fish oil and the vit. e.


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## scottmac019 (Apr 5, 2010)

I am VERY Intrigued by the whole feeding RAW...I have Kaiser a 15 week old Male GSD, I switched him over to Natural Balance for Large Breed. He was on IAMS so I switched as soon as I could....After speaking with a neighbor who is a Vet, she voiced some concern not for the animal on RAW but for the Humans in the house because of Salmonella....Has anyone had any issues with this? Does everyone take the dishes and wash them immediately so there is no contamination in the house? And do you wash the dog's muzzles to clean or sanitize any bacteria they may have on their fur?? 
I am really thinking of going to a RAW diet for him and our 2 Jack Russells, but I want to make sure before making the switch...

Thanks in advance for any input...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

There are many raw feeders on this board and I haven't heard of one case of salmonella or e-coli transmitting. Same as when we handle raw meat for ourselves, just use good cleaning/handling practices. 
Our immune systems should be strong enough, if there was something on the dogs coat or muzzle, shouldn't be a problem.


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## ZAYDA (Apr 22, 2010)

You need to handle raw meats as you would if you were cooking for yourself. Yes clean the bowls each time and clean wherever the raw food has been just like any other time.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Fanta was 11.5lbs when we brought her home at 8 weeks and a chicken quarter was her first meal. she handled it very well. I even had a video of her chomping on it posted here somewhere. 
I never gave her chicken wings and chicken necks she would inhale like spaghetti so I gave up on that as well. bigger pieces will force them to work on it more.

we clean up after feeding her (sometimes not immediately  ) and so far so good. never cleaned her off or anything.
I use Clorox wipes to clean the floor after she messes it up sometimes, but thats it as far as sanitizing goes.

I was very nervous before starting her on raw but decided to do it cold turkey and never looked back. she loves it and is always looking for more.


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## Kodi (Mar 20, 2010)

We've just brought our pup home (2nd night tonight)

8 weeks yesterday weighing in at 20.8lb. She's been on chicken necks & some other random meat off-cuts with a bit of puppy milk & an egg.

We've changed slightly to minced necks, hearts and liver however she doesn't want to touch it tonight! last night after some coaxing she finished a nice big bowl but tonight we poured the milk over the meat and she hasn't touched it!

we tried just putting some neck mince with a bit of kibble in a fresh bowl but nothing.... is this just first nights anxiety or have i started on the wrong foot?

sorry to hijack the thread!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Too much liver(or any organ meat) will cause runny stool, you should only give very small amount, as in a pinch for a young pup.
Milk can also cause upset, I would go with chicken backs, or wings/necks and not grind it up, the pup should be able to handle the small bones just fine.
What the breeder has been feeding should be fed for a week while your pup settles in and the stress of leaving the littermates decreases.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

Not to really get off topic but just wanted to touch on the salmonella issue. I've known a lot of people with this issue. With our old dog I fed raw and could not fathom putting it in a bowl. I tried originally but then I had a bowl to clean up afterwards as well as everything else because it never stayed in the bowl more then 5 seconds after the bowl touched the floor. One thing I found for my sanity and quite honestly just to not have to deal with the mess I buy those cheap plastic table cloths from dollar stores or party stores. They come in large rolls for like graduation parties, super cheap just unroll a portion lay it down throw the food down afterwards either toss it or you can always carefully fold it inwards and use it for the feeding later in the day then toss it. No muss no fuss and at least with mine he was good about staying on the plastic so I didn't have to worry having raw meat all over my floors. I did however have to worry about the occasional mad dash for my bed when I accidentally forgot to shut the bedroom door at feeding times lmao, can't blame him what could be better then a yummy half chicken or nice raw steak on moms soft comfy bed.... spoiled! lol


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