# What does "bred from mink line" tells me about my dog's genetics?



## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Hey everyone,

So, I finally got around to putting my dog (along with his rediculous name) in pedigreedatabase. I had someone who's knowledgeable enough take a look at what I could piece together (no sire information in pedigreedatabse) and was told the mother's side is bred from mink line.

So, what does that tell me about my dog's genetics? Anyone care to chime in? I'm really curious.

Here's what I could piece together:
6 gen. pedigree for Sir Einstein Whinesalot - German shepherd dog

Any info on the dog's line will be helpful - I know without the sire there's not much that can be said but I'm still curious as to what I can actually piece together


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/149565-ferro-troll-mink.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/150363-fero-mink-lord-free-dogs-oh-my.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/146212-dog-profiles-your-favorites.html


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

That is so darned far back that it doesnt tell you much of anything.........


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> That is so darned far back that it doesnt tell you much of anything.........


lol I know - I'm just clinging to straws here because I'm curious and want to learn a little about working lines


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

So you have to have something on the sire since you have an AKC registration number, no?


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

yes but he's not registered in pedigree database. I could probably fill that in once I get home and find his DN number and such


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

One occurrence of Mink several generations back wouldn't constitute "Mink lines" to me.

I'd definitely be looking at dogs closer in the pedigree. Particularly as there are some easily traceable dogs there and it's always better to get information from people who knew the dogs and breedings firsthand.

Frisko Leerburg of course comes from Ed Frawley's breeding. He'd possibly be one to ask about the dogs in that part of the pedigree. I remember seeing this dog at a seminar probably 10 years or so ago, but don't remember any real details. If I'm not mistaken his owners, the Glitzerstern kennel, is/was here in the midwest area... OH or IN I think. Can't remember their names for sure, though I think the hubby was Jerry something, but I know they have/had a website. So some Google might turn up means to contact them and ask for more info about those dogs.

Qwazy Heidi is from Nate Harve's breeding, out of Mike Diehl's Brawnson. Again two very knowledgeable, easy to find and contact people, who would be the best to talk with to get more information about those dogs.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

What I think Chris is politely saying is there are different ways to acquire this information about your dog and since you are a self described newbie on pedigrees....then the besy way is to get the information as close to your dogs as possible. Why? Because the dog is made of genetic (genotype) and physical expression,(looks or phenotype). To really under the pedigree you must have a thorough understand of the phenotype associated with the dog being mentioned so the genotype can be meaningful. So the advice Chris is giving, is to go to people who know or owned the dogs close up in the pedigree, to give you some phenotype or infomation on the physical/mental makeup of these dogs. Then you can start to piece together what you see with traits from different immediate parents as told to you from people who KNEW the dogs. This kind of information builds a database in your mind about dogs as certain traits keep occurring or reoccurring with certain dogs. For breeders this is necessary to be a knowledgable breeder and for owners it is the way to learn of your dog's background properly if you are interested like you say.
This is why some get perturbed when people only want pedigree information in the form of an analysis like I sometimes give(or Lisa, Sue, Chris, Carmen, Lee, RubyTuesday, Doc, and many others) about a dog. All of these people have many years , experience and hands on with this breed in a QUEST to understand the genetic side of the equation; knowing they had to have the experience part for the information to make sense. 
So, see if you can get in touch with the owners/breeders of some of the dogs in the pedigree. That's the best place to start.JMO


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> So, see if you can get in touch with the owners/breeders of some of the dogs in the pedigree. That's the best place to start.JMO


And then you see how deep the rabbit hole goes....


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## Cheerful1 (Sep 27, 2011)

Joey's great great grandfather was Mink vom haus Wittfeld.

Would that be considered a "mink line"?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

cheerful - no


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

ewww - too late to add to the above -
this would be a better example of what makes a line - using Mink Jenny vom haus Ming

haus Ming liked to use Mink - is Greif Lahntal - so if you start adding Sagus Busecker Schloss through Tiekerhook , or Leerburg's combination of Mink to Sagus in the mother line as here USA Otis vom Jacobiner Schloß -- one generation forward as here Fendi vom Leerburg
then it becomes a line - Sagus 

one Belgian breeding was 2 - 2 on the sire and the dam had Mink in the 3 rd . 

I had looked at Lewis Malatesta myself to add into a particular line -


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Original OP here - wow I started this thread a long long time ago 

So what would be minimally sufficient to consider dog x to be linebred to dog y? Is it 3-4, 5-5, or in this example 4-3,3? I don't think many do closer than 2-2 and for that matter 2-2 is not something I've seen a lot (but I could be wrong about ALL of the above)... 

I look at the thread and think, yea one occurrence of Mink in the pedigree doesn't mean much so I know better now, but I am curious what is the furthest back you generally look at when looking for a dog bred from x line and such. 

Again, what I said above could be self-explanatory, but humor me considering that I know next to nothing


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

or if a dog is not line bred but its sire or dam is, is that considered any thing?

My dog's sire is 5,5,5-5 in one dog. Would that dog be considered to have any signficant influence on the outcome of my puppy or not? My own dog is not considered to have any linebreeding. 

I am not asking a specific question relative to my dog but a general one to supplement ayoitrzrimz' question. Because it seems I see a lot of WL dogs where parents are linebred to one dog, the offspring is not, then offspring with no linebreeding (at least for 5 generations) are bred and produce a next generation with new linebreeding. It almost seems to be a dance.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

the dog is not linebred because the top [the father or sire] has no dogs in common with the bottom (mother or dam) - the topside is ???? Pet lines probably, maybe some ASL and at least one dog in 5 or 6 is German showlines...

The bottom has Mink twice I think - once through Lewis, once through Crok...also Nick H., and then Brawson for the Czech lines...

It is such an open pedigree, it is just a shot in the dark to try to predict anything 

Lee


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