# German GSD breeders?



## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

Does anyone know of any good German Shepherd breeders over in Germany?


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

I should add some info lol....I'm looking to buy a male German Shepherd puppy from Germany. I found a breeder over there I've been talking to but I don't know...I've asked them if I can put a deposit down for a puppy (the puppies will be born sometime within the next 2 weeks), but they won't accept a deposit. They told me that they don't want to take a deposit because they don't know if a male will be born, and there is a high demand for their puppies and don't know if there will be enough. Is that normal for a breeder? I never bought a puppy before so I don't know.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

If you are not a known quantity and contact a "top" breeder out of the blue...you are not likely to be sent anything other than the last pick puppy...seen it happen a few times now...what are you looking for? a showline or working line? and are you planning to get involved in showing/sport?

Lee


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Can I ask why you are getting one from Germany? Reasoning, preferences, etc.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

Show or working lines? Can you speak any German? Are you on a list for a puppy? How much do they want to charge you? Because the suggested price in Germany is 600-800 Euros for a puppy, and if they tell you more than that, they are taking advantage of you. There are breeders and puppies everywhere in Germany. Were you planning on having the puppy shipped or going to get him yourself? I never paid a deposit, but told the breeders what I wanted. In one case, I told the breeders what I wanted, and they contacted me six months later with the perfect dog.

Here's the SV magazine. Scroll down to Verkaufe, those are mostly puppy ads (Welpen).
http://www.schaeferhunde.de/site/fileadmin/pdf/aktuell/kleinanzeigen.pdf


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Between cost of puppy, transport to airport, SV transfer, airfreight, fees at airports, cost of exchanging money, transfer fees via a foreign exchange broker (cheaper than bank!) - gas to go to pick up pup (because of temperatures, ie too hot in most cities, pup flew into Toronto), I ended up with over $2600 for a WL puppy....maybe even more if I sat down and counted every single nickle!

If pup had flown into Newark then shipped to my city, add another nearly 700 euro to Gradlyn's price.

And if flying into most US cities, where there is no direct flight from Frankfort, you need to add using a Customs Broker (plus another $225- 300)...so you are going to spend anywhere from $2500 - 3000 to get that E600 puppy in your arms.....

There are several very very nice reputable showline breeders here in the States where you can get a reasonably priced companion pup - same with working lines.

Lee


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

I didn't know there was a difference between working/show :-\. I was looking for a German GSD because I've been told by many that they tend to be healthier, live longer, and genetically better then the American dogs because of Germany's strict breeding standards. I know there's no guarantee on any dog, but I thought it might give me a better chance at getting a pup that won't have so many health issues. I'm looking for a dog who can go with us everywhere and really be like my kid lol. I want a dog who will be a good guard dog but not viscious, a dog who can go on trips with us (like hiking, camping), be trained, loyal, smart, and have a long happy life. I know that's asking alot . 
I do speak some German, but the breeders I've spoke with can speak English pretty well so I lucked out . The price is 700 Euros, and the little guy will fly from Frankfurt to Philadelphia via Pet Air. I'm not on a waitlist, the breeders just said that they will let me know when the litter is born, which should be within 2 weeks.


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

And thanks for the link! Wow I didn't realize they're so many!!


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> Between cost of puppy, transport to airport, SV transfer, airfreight, fees at airports, cost of exchanging money, transfer fees via a foreign exchange broker (cheaper than bank!) - gas to go to pick up pup (because of temperatures, ie too hot in most cities, pup flew into Toronto), I ended up with over $2600 for a WL puppy....maybe even more if I sat down and counted every single nickle!
> 
> If pup had flown into Newark then shipped to my city, add another nearly 700 euro to Gradlyn's price.
> 
> ...


You could have flown there, picked up your puppy, flown back with puppy (or dog) as baggage for half that price. I've done it. Plus that way you meet the breeder and decide if you really like them or not. I also love to travel and just use that as an excuse.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

yes - probably - but cannot get away to go...have dogs at home, no one to watch them, no vacation from work - add in the cost of losing pay, then travel in Germany....kennel not near the airport....

Lee


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

LissG said:


> I didn't know there was a difference between working/show :-\. I was looking for a German GSD because I've been told by many that they tend to be healthier, live longer, and genetically better then the American dogs because of Germany's strict breeding standards. I know there's no guarantee on any dog, but I thought it might give me a better chance at getting a pup that won't have so many health issues. I'm looking for a dog who can go with us everywhere and really be like my kid lol. I want a dog who will be a good guard dog but not viscious, a dog who can go on trips with us (like hiking, camping), be trained, loyal, smart, and have a long happy life. I know that's asking alot .
> I do speak some German, but the breeders I've spoke with can speak English pretty well so I lucked out . The price is 700 Euros, and the little guy will fly from Frankfurt to Philadelphia via Pet Air. I'm not on a waitlist, the breeders just said that they will let me know when the litter is born, which should be within 2 weeks.


I hope your puppy is everything that you are looking for in a German Shepherd. Good luck! And I want to see photos.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

we all need to support the knowledgeable breeders in USA and Canada who have invested time , education, finances, and risk to bring good animals to North America and are producing good dogs that are under appreciated not for lack of quality but having to compete with the cache of the import . 

There are several on this list , Anne "Vandal" , Lee "Wolfstraum" Liz "zu Treuenhanden" Chris "Wildhaus" I think Cliff has the occassional litter , there are others that have shown dogs on this forum that impressed me but I can't find their names (sorry - if I remember I'll give the shout out) , you may want to look at my efforts, I can provide phone numbers of non forum good ethical and reliable breeders who are good in communicating and will provide support for the life of the dog.
Show breeders, American show line breeders -- I am not so familiar with so they will have to speak up for themselves.

We really need to support the efforts of people in North America who are producing good dogs, and that goes for sport , and police service , breeding , and companion animals.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There are good dogs in Germany, and good dogs in the US. There are bad dogs in both places as well. 

In order to be issued pink papers in Germany, the breeding pair must have jumped a variety of hoops. This does NOT ensure you that the puppy will be free of problems. And there is rarely a guaranty or warranty involved. 

In the US, you pretty much have to interview the breeder and find out what hoops they jump through before breeding dog and bitch. Maybe you can visit the kennel. 

There are pros and cons in doing either. I see importing is risky unless you have a good contact that you trust somewhere in the process.


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

The pup is 700 Euros and the flight to Philly through Pet Air is only 400 more Euros (I think they have a special contract through Pet Air-they said they use it all the time), which comes to about $1600. The price includes everything from papers, vaccinations, transport, and tests. I can't take time off work to fly out to Germany, but I wish I could !!!


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

It would be fun to take a trip and come home with a puppy and a t-shirt


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

carmspack said:


> *we all need to support the knowledgeable breeders in USA and Canada who have invested time , education, finances, and risk to bring good animals to North America* and are producing good dogs that are under appreciated not for lack of quality but having to compete with the cache of the import .
> 
> There are several on this list , Anne "Vandal" , Lee "Wolfstraum" Liz "zu Treuenhanden" Chris "Wildhaus" I think Cliff has the occassional litter , there are others that have shown dogs on this forum that impressed me but I can't find their names (sorry - if I remember I'll give the shout out) , you may want to look at my efforts, I can provide phone numbers of non forum good ethical and reliable breeders who are good in communicating and will provide support for the life of the dog.
> Show breeders, American show line breeders -- I am not so familiar with so they will have to speak up for themselves.
> ...


What they said! And MUCH easier to communicate after you get your pup with any issues or just questions!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

> *We really need to support the efforts of people in North America who are producing good dogs, and that goes for sport , and police service , breeding , and companion animals.*


I support people who I think are worth supporting, doesn't matter where they are located. If Germany, Austria, Czech Republic or the US, I don't care, if I think it's a dog I want and a breeder I like I buy a dog. 

It's up to the individual person where they buy a dog. And honestly, I'd rather go through my parents or people I know personally than buying a dog from a breeder with a limited Registration. 

I BUY THE DOG! I decide whether or not I breed, title or health certify that dog. The breeder has no say in it and should have not a say in it once I legally aquired the dog. It's mine! I paid for it! 

It's one major reason why I won't buy a dog in the US. If I buy the dogs I want full rights on that dog and not having to beg the breeder to lift the limited registration.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mrs.K said:


> I support people who I think are worth supporting, doesn't matter where they are located. If Germany, Austria, Czech Republic or the US, I don't care, if I think it's a dog I want and a breeder I like I buy a dog.
> 
> It's up to the individual person where they buy a dog. And honestly, I'd rather go through my parents or people I know personally than buying a dog from a breeder with a limited Registration.
> 
> ...


Not all breeders in the US are crazy about the breeding rights. If I trust a person with my dog, I trust that person to make the decision to breed the dog. Because I do not sell my dogs speutered, and withholding breeding rights will not stop people from breeding the dog if they are not trustworthy. If they will be unethical, they will be whether or not I play a game with the papers. I have sold dogs with limited registration, I usually ask the people if they intend to breed or show the animal, if they say no, I then ask if they have a problem with a limited registration, and explain that if necessary. They always say no problem, and I sell them a limited pup. If people want to leave that open, I will generally be ok with that too. 

Because really, if someone seems really irresponsible, I do not want them to have my dog even on a limited registration.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Mrs.K said:


> I support people who I think are worth supporting, doesn't matter where they are located. If Germany, Austria, Czech Republic or the US, I don't care, if I think it's a dog I want and a breeder I like I buy a dog. It's up to the individual person where they buy a dog. And honestly, I'd rather go through my parents or people I know personally than buying a dog from a breeder with a limited Registration.I BUY THE DOG! I decide whether or not I breed, title or health certify that dog. The breeder has no say in it and should have not a say in it once I legally aquired the dog. It's mine! I paid for it!
> It's one major reason why I won't buy a dog in the US. If I buy the dogs I want full rights on that dog and not having to beg the breeder to lift the limited registration.


 
Aren't you from Germany?

That would certainly be a major advantage/reason to buy a GSD from Germany.

For those of us who don't come from Germany and don't have any contacts there, it is a lot more risky to purchase a puppy from there than one from the US or Canada. 

I would rather buy one from here, not just to support the "US/Canada" breeders (that IS part of it), but because I can communicate better and even go to see the kennel and meet the breeders a lot easier. As well as finding out more information a lot easier than I could for a foreign breeder.

Up to each puppy purchaser to decide for themselves.

Maybe for some folks it would be cool to say "My puppy is imported from Germany, or france or ....".


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I am scared for the OP. Sounds like a novice and never owned a GSD before. And jumping in without knowing the different lines or what you are purchasing, is just a disaster waiting to happen. Good Luck!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you have to have a dog from Germany, why not connect with a breeder here who imports good dogs from over there. Then you can work with them to import the dog. This way he would be working with a breeder there that he trusts and has had good experience with. I did this, and am very happy -- I do not know the breeder over there, but my friend, does and has dealt with him over decades. 

Just a thought.


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

dawnandjr said:


> I am scared for the OP. Sounds like a novice and never owned a GSD before. And jumping in without knowing the different lines or what you are purchasing, is just a disaster waiting to happen. Good Luck!


It's true, I've never owned a German Shepherd before. I've always wanted one. But, I'm not just "jumping in," I've put alot of thought into it (almost a year), even puppy proofed my house (even though I don't even have the dog yet), and I've read some books. The books mention the different lines but pretty much just say their differences are in looks, not temperment. Most puppies are high energy, want to be with you all the time, and hard to handle-that's just a given and I'm totally ready for the crazy hahaha. The only reason I'm looking into the dog from Germany is because unfortunately (and I mean no disrespect to you breeders) but American breeders for German Shepherds have a bad rep. Animal rights issues, over breeding, "rape cages," breeding bad/unhealthy dogs just for money has been a common practice and the imbreeding has increased the instances in medical issues/short lives for GSD. I KNOW there's no guarantee and I'm sure the same stuff happens in Germany in some places, but the German laws/rules/regulations are much stricter. Their puppies tend to be healthier and live longer, healthier lives. There's no way to guarantee it either way, and I don't want anyone to take offense at all-but I figured I'd take my chances and hope I get a nice healthy dog.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

LissG said:


> but American breeders for German Shepherds have a bad rep. Animal rights issues, over breeding, "rape cages," breeding bad/unhealthy dogs just for money has been a common practice and the imbreeding has increased the instances in medical issues/short lives for GSD.


Who on Earth have you been talking to? There are definitely bad backyard breeders and puppy mills, but there are many, many ethical and reputable GSD breeders with German bloodlines here in the US., and many right here on this board. Just give us your location and we can help you find one.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LissG said:


> It's true, I've never owned a German Shepherd before. I've always wanted one. But, I'm not just "jumping in," I've put alot of thought into it (almost a year), even puppy proofed my house (even though I don't even have the dog yet), and I've read some books. The books mention the different lines but pretty much just say their differences are in looks, not temperment. Most puppies are high energy, want to be with you all the time, and hard to handle-that's just a given and I'm totally ready for the crazy hahaha. The only reason I'm looking into the dog from Germany is because unfortunately (and I mean no disrespect to you breeders) but American breeders for *German Shepherds have a bad rep. Animal rights issues, over breeding, "rape cages," breeding bad/unhealthy dogs just for money has been a common practice and the imbreeding has increased the instances in medical issues/short lives for GSD.* I KNOW there's no guarantee and I'm sure the same stuff happens in Germany in some places, but the German laws/rules/regulations are much stricter. Their puppies tend to be healthier and live longer, healthier lives. There's no way to guarantee it either way, and I don't want anyone to take offense at all-but I figured I'd take my chances and hope I get a nice healthy dog.


Sad. This is what the HSUS, AR people, and the many, many reputable breeder/byb discussions has caused. People think that anyone breeding dogs are using rape cages, and over-breeding -- common practices. 

I will guaranty you one thing, you are more likely to import a puppy from such a background, than you will be if you go and meet a few breeders and ask a few questions to people local to you. 

Think about it. 

People who are exporting puppies over there, as a regular thing, they probably have puppies available. Why? Because sending pups to the US is lucrative and has very little negative rammifications even if they send out only the worst of the worst. 

People who KNOW people over there, is a whole other story. People build a relationship of trust with people over here for a purpose, not to sell one puppy. 

A good breeder is a good breeder and they will take care of you even if they exported the dog to you, but my guess is the better breeders over there, like here, are not going out of their way to sell to a foreign market. 

They MAY sell dogs outside of the country, dogs that will do good in that country -- for show or for work. That reflects well on their breedings. 

There are others who are breeding specifically to sell to foreign markets, and in particular pet people. It can be a method of downloading their less-than-stellar dogs, it could be breeding low quality dogs specifically to send over here, because it makes them money. 

The ONLY way to avoid bad breeders is personal contact. Not a website. Personal contact. Anything can be made to look good in a photo. You can view the OFA or the pedigrees with the a-stamps. You can see the titles, you can look up the dogs. And then you can talk and listen to the breeder. 

There are no shortcuts. You can luck out and get a puppy shipped in, sight unseen, and get everything you desire. But that is all it will be, luck. If you are buying a living, breathing, thing it will most likely have some type of issue, maybe many issues along the way, wherever you get it from. Yes, the SV has some requirements for breeding that are not required for breeding here. But you can stick with breeders here that do that sort of thing with their dogs.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

LissG said:


> It's true, I've never owned a German Shepherd before. I've always wanted one. But, I'm not just "jumping in," I've put alot of thought into it (almost a year), even puppy proofed my house (even though I don't even have the dog yet), and I've read some books. The books mention the different lines but pretty much just say their differences are in looks, not temperment. Most puppies are high energy, want to be with you all the time, and hard to handle-that's just a given and I'm totally ready for the crazy hahaha. The only reason I'm looking into the dog from Germany is because unfortunately (and I mean no disrespect to you breeders) but American breeders for German Shepherds have a bad rep. *Animal rights issues, over breeding, "rape cages," breeding bad/unhealthy dogs just for money has been a common practice and the imbreeding has increased the instances in medical issues/short lives for GSD*. I KNOW there's no guarantee and I'm sure the same stuff happens in Germany in some places, but the German laws/rules/regulations are much stricter. Their puppies tend to be healthier and live longer, healthier lives. There's no way to guarantee it either way, and I don't want anyone to take offense at all-but I figured I'd take my chances and hope I get a nice healthy dog.


You're not jumping in but you have no idea if it's standard practice for German breeders to get a deposit or not?

There are good breeders and there are bad breeders everywhere. I've actually heard just as many horror stories about people getting dogs from breeders in Europe as here. In many ways it's worse--you have no way to legally touch them if something happens.

I imported my dog, but it can be a confusing process at times. I would NOT have done it if I didn't have the contacts that I did and had researched as many people who have one of their dogs. Really not a process that I would recommend to someone that is very green knowledge-wise.

US breeders really don't have a bad rap anymore then German or Czech or any other country. There a puppy mills and bad breeders and there are amazing lines and reputable breeders. 

You sound like someone that wants a bit of security with their purchase...no guarantees in Europe. No nifty 2-year warranty or your money back policies. THe dog that comes off the crate is the dog you're going to get. I'm not sure where you have got the idea that in some way German laws are going to protect you from bad breeders? "Puppy mills" exist there too. Just because they require a title under a potentially corrupt judge doesn't mean much.

You have a LOT LOT LOT more research to know if your reasons for going to Germany are the bolded above. Not sure who you've been talking to, but conspiracy theorists most likely. Maybe they need to team up with Mel Gibson for a movie.


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

i came to this board in hopes of help and guidance. some of you have been really nice (thank you) but some of you jump down my throat and judge me. i don't get it. if you don't have anything positive to put in, then don't. 
anyway...i live in atco, nj. it'd be awesome if you could recommend a breeder in nj/pa (i'm willing to travel for a good breeder)


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

LissG said:


> The pup is 700 Euros and the flight to Philly through Pet Air is only 400 more Euros (I think they have a special contract through Pet Air-they said they use it all the time), which comes to about $1600. The price includes everything from papers, vaccinations, transport, and tests. I can't take time off work to fly out to Germany, but I wish I could !!!


It WILL be more! I was quoted a much much cheaper rate for flight initially too....the fees at the airport are not included...the exchange rate flucuates, your bank will take a premium on the rate - plus charge wire fees, your credit card will charge a percentage PLUS a higher exchange rate than NYTimes posts....it is alot of little stuff that adds up!! If you are near an international airport, you won't have the cost of driving 4-6 hours to pick up the pup or the additional leg from International to local airports...but there are still going to be other fees....Pet Air is also a customs broker here and you WILL be charged by them to clear the puppy - that is over and above the flight....The fees at the airport when my pup was picked up were $135....that was over the flight cost. The rate today is 1.4572 - add at least a nickel for bank/credit card rate...say 1.50-- plus the fees...yes, you will say - but that is only 50 bucks, or 10 or 25 - but the bottom line will add up....I seriously doubt you will end up much less than $2000 - and you can get a nice WGR SL companion puppy for that here and have the support of the breeder.

Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

LissG said:


> It's true, I've never owned a German Shepherd before. I've always wanted one. But, I'm not just "jumping in," I've put alot of thought into it (almost a year), even puppy proofed my house (even though I don't even have the dog yet), and I've read some books. The books mention the different lines but pretty much just say their differences are in looks, not temperment. Most puppies are high energy, want to be with you all the time, and hard to handle-that's just a given and I'm totally ready for the crazy hahaha. The only reason I'm looking into the dog from Germany is because unfortunately (and I mean no disrespect to you breeders) but American breeders for German Shepherds have a bad rep. Animal rights issues, over breeding, "rape cages," breeding bad/unhealthy dogs just for money has been a common practice and the imbreeding has increased the instances in medical issues/short lives for GSD. I KNOW there's no guarantee and I'm sure the same stuff happens in Germany in some places, but the German laws/rules/regulations are much stricter. Their puppies tend to be healthier and live longer, healthier lives. There's no way to guarantee it either way, and I don't want anyone to take offense at all-but I figured I'd take my chances and hope I get a nice healthy dog.


There are major puppy factories in both countries....breeders doing a half dozen or dozens of litters a year...dogs who NEVER will see the inside of a house (more common in Germany than here), females who are bred heat after heat, year after year, producing 8-12 litters in their lives...and who are lucky to get 30 minutes out of a run into an exercise yard every day...the big well known breeders produce alot of pups and that is why they are big and well known!

Yes, there IS a "quality control" protocal in Germany for breeding - hips, elbows certified, BH, AD, working title, and Koer class. Those are "pink papered" pups - but there are "white papers" too....dogs who have NOT passed all these tests. The reason many of us insist on limited AKC is so that our puppies are not bred by people who do not want to go the extra mile to certify the dogs, so they do not get thrown in a run and used as puppy machines! It is from concern for the dog's well being throughout it's life.

There are many good, conscientious breeders in the US - some on this board!!!! I sent you a couple recommendations for one in MD and one in MA privately....I'd add Drache Feld to that if you want the traditional "look" in puppy - quite a few people here in my town, and on this board have bought nice companion pups from this kennel. 

Lee


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LissG said:


> I didn't know there was a difference between working/show :-\. I was looking for a German GSD because I've been told by many that they tend to be healthier, live longer, and genetically better then the American dogs because of Germany's strict breeding standards.


I think what people were referring to is the Puppy Mills/Back Yard Breeders who have put so many unhealthy dogs out there. You can get a healthy puppy right here. If I were you, before spending any money, I would find some local breeders (perhaps through here or a local Schutzhund club) and go meet with them. I know Van Gogh kennels just had a litter and my trainer recommends them to me. 

As far as breeding dogs in Germany, I thought the dog had to have a Schutzhund title, among other things, before getting papers to breed so I'm really confused on the idea that a person would be against having limited registration from a US breeder until certain requirements are met when requirements also have to be met in Germany.

What is Schutzhund


> Today, German shepherd dogs in Germany may not be bred without aquiring Schutzhund titles, a breed survey, a conformation rating, hip (spine and elbow) xrays and a certificate of endurance.


This is exactly what reputable breeders require in the US, except the titles may also be AKC titles.

If a German puppy is what you want then that is 100% your choice and it's not a bad decision, there are many people that buy from another country, but the basis you state for doing so is false. It would be to bad if you were left with that opinion, regardless of where you decide to get your puppy from.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LissG said:


> i came to this board in hopes of help and guidance. some of you have been really nice (thank you) but some of you jump down my throat and judge me. i don't get it. if you don't have anything positive to put in, then don't.
> anyway...i live in atco, nj. it'd be awesome if you could recommend a breeder in nj/pa (i'm willing to travel for a good breeder)


In fact we are NOT jumping down your throat. We are simply saying what you do not want to hear. We are TRYING to help you, by dispelling the myth that for a good dog, you must import it from Germany, or that all imports are sound in mind and body, and come from excellent sources. 

You should at least get some names of people, that have experience dealing with people over there.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

To the OP

We can help suggest a breeder for you if you telll us a bit more. Are you interest in in working lines or show lines? Is the dog going to be an active companion or will you be showing or doing things like agility, schutzhund, obedience, etc..? You will have to be able to tell the breeder what you want so they can match you with a great puppy for your lifestyle. 

Luckily for all of us there are some great breeders of all lines on this board.

This thread has helpful info on not only finding a breeder but should also help you learn a bit more about each "type" of GSD
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

-ETA I've ready many horror stories from people on this board who've gone with a breeder from Germany without having personal contacts. Breeders sending the wrong dog, dogs with deformities, dogs with bad temperaments. I would not trust them after that to return the dog and get a different dog from them.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> There are major puppy factories in both countries....breeders doing a half dozen or dozens of litters a year...dogs who NEVER will see the inside of a house (more common in Germany than here), females who are bred heat after heat, year after year, producing 8-12 litters in their lives...and who are lucky to get 30 minutes out of a run into an exercise yard every day...the big well known breeders produce alot of pups and that is why they are big and well known!
> 
> Yes, there IS a "quality control" protocal in Germany for breeding - hips, elbows certified, BH, AD, working title, and Koer class. Those are "pink papered" pups - but there are "white papers" too....dogs who have NOT passed all these tests. The reason many of us insist on limited AKC is so that our puppies are not bred by people who do not want to go the extra mile to certify the dogs, so they do not get thrown in a run and used as puppy machines! It is from concern for the dog's well being throughout it's life.
> 
> ...


Yes, I've seen bad breeders in Germany too. My husband is German, we lived there for years, and checked out quite a few breeders. Some of the big names ( I can't even remember which now), I was totally disgusted with. We ended up looking for very small breeders, and that's what we ended up with, breeders who have a few dogs and take very good care of them. 

I can give you the name of the breeders we know, but they don't speak English, and if you want a puppy, you have to pick him up yourself from their house.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

sagelfn said:


> To the OP
> 
> We can help suggest a breeder for you if you telll us a bit more. Are you interest in in working lines or show lines? Is the dog going to be an active companion or will you be showing or doing things like agility, schutzhund, obedience, etc..? You will have to be able to tell the breeder what you want so they can match you with a great puppy for your lifestyle.
> 
> Luckily for all of us there are some great breeders of all lines on this board.


Add to the list, have you ever trained or lived with an active larger dog? 

There are a LOT of breeders in NJ and Pa. Quite a few of them have German lines and go thru the exact same testing as dogs in Germany. Based on your comments, you need to do more research......


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

LissG said:


> i came to this board in hopes of help and guidance. some of you have been really nice (thank you) but some of you jump down my throat and judge me. i don't get it. if you don't have anything positive to put in, then don't.
> anyway...i live in atco, nj. it'd be awesome if you could recommend a breeder in nj/pa (i'm willing to travel for a good breeder)


When you say that US breeders rape their dogs, you have to expect some kind of strong reaction!

Why don't you tell us more about what you want--what type of dog are you looking for, what you're going to be doing with him, what your lifestyle is like Do you have a preference for working or show lines?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

LissG said:


> i came to this board in hopes of *help and guidance*. *(Hope you listen to it!)* some of you have been really nice (thank you) but some of you jump down my throat and judge me. i don't get it. if you don't have anything positive to put in, then don't.
> anyway...i live in atco, nj. it'd be awesome if you could recommend a breeder in nj/pa (i'm willing to travel for a good breeder)


Maybe some have appeared to you to "jump down your throat" because it appears that you have no clue as to what you are doing and need to do a LOT more research into getting the right pup. 

*Let's see if I have it then*: you have no contacts in Germany, no knowledge of even the basic differences between WL and SL(or even that the different lines exist), are sadly mistaken about what US breeders do and how they operate, have not talked to any US breeders (or any at all!), etc. Might have missed a few but ......

Yup, sounds like you are ready to drop a few thousand dollars on an imported puppy.

And then you seem to take great offense at a few folks pointing out a few very helpful things to consider.


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Maybe some have appeared to you to "jump down your throat" because it appears that you have no clue as to what you are doing and need to do a LOT more research into getting the right pup.
> 
> *Let's see if I have it then*: you have no contacts in Germany, no knowledge of even the basic differences between WL and SL(or even that the different lines exist), are sadly mistaken about what US breeders do and how they operate, have not talked to any US breeders (or any at all!), etc. Might have missed a few but ......
> 
> ...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

LissG said:


> codmaster said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe some have appeared to you to "jump down your throat" because it appears that you have no clue as to what you are doing and need to do a LOT more research into getting the right pup.
> ...


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

first off, because i'm just now getting to this thread, welcome to the board. I hope you find what you're looking for and i sincerely hope this board helps you learn as much as its helped me and several others. If it werent for this board, i wouldnt know a great many things that will help me when i go to get my next pup. Because of this board and several members, my dogs would still be eating crap food and be less healthy and my Shasta dog... well she'd have driven me crazy at some points... lol

again, good luck. I hope you stick around and learn. Believe me, you'll learn that those who were "jumping down your throat" were really just trying to help you open your eyes. there are two breeders, both members on this board, one working line breeder and one showline breeder that are at the very top of my list for my next pup. I may have to draw names out of a hat to fully decide which is saying something because i very much prefer working line dogs.


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

yes, you missed that i never said i didn't have contacts in germany. i also never said that i didn't speak with any breeders in the US.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

LissG said:


> Does anyone know of any good German Shepherd breeders over in Germany?


OH MY GOSH, did you see this post? PERFECT dog for you!

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...on/161985-ma-15-month-old-female-trained.html


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

LissG said:


> yes, you missed that i never said i didn't have contacts in germany. i also never said that i didn't speak with any breeders in the US.


lissg,
*"I found a breeder over there I've been talking to but I don't know..."* - sure sounds like you didn't have any contacts to me if you were trying to find a breeder there and had already talked to one there by yourself!

AND I never said that "you didn't talk to any breeders in Germany" - did I say that? If you think I did say that to you - could you please point out where I said it?

I did notice that you didn't disagree that I did say that you didn't even know there was a difference between SL and WL.

I was actually trying to point out how woefully under prepared that you were currently and how much more research I would recommend that you do before you get a pup, much less try to import one on your own!

Would you call that "jumping down your throat?" Maybe better to let you just go merrily on your own way!


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Never spent that much for adult flying. Adie was 725 euros, via Gradlyn and driven in from another country.. From Frankfurt, via ATL to Nashville.


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

codmaster said:


> lissg,
> *"I found a breeder over there I've been talking to but I don't know..."* - sure sounds like you didn't have any contacts to me if you were trying to find a breeder there and had already talked to one there by yourself!
> If my friend recommends a movie and raves how great it is, that doesn't guarantee I'll LOVE the movie just as much, or even at all. Just because I'm not sure about a breeder doesn't mean they weren't recommended by a friend in Deutschland, nor does it guarantee a flawless transaction, regardless of where the kennel is.
> 
> ...


Yes please stop posting in this thread lol. :wub:


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> OH MY GOSH, did you see this post? PERFECT dog for you!
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...on/161985-ma-15-month-old-female-trained.html


Thanks! I sent a PM about this pup


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

I think Yashi - already broken in you might say - would be a great place to start. If you are new to the breed it is often a better way to go than with a puppy - what you see is what you get with an adult, and they are past the chewing/biting of the baby land shark guys....

If you are still determined to import a puppy at some point, the only kennel I would recommend is Kirschental www.kirschental.de Karl and Marion Fuller have excellent reputations (though they are getting up there in years now) and I can never recall reading anything negative about them or their dogs. Good luck!
______________________________________________
Susan

Anja schH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

LissG said:


> Yes please stop posting in this thread lol. :wub:


 
Ha! Ha! You own it?

Great luck with your puppy and good luck to him/her!


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

HI LISSG! WELCOME!!!
I first just wanted to say that and please don't take some criticism too personally. When you come to a forum made just for a certain breed like a GSD, these are people that are VERY truly extremely, sometimes obsessively, passionate about this breed and their dogs. These people are amazing, over the top, do everything with significance dog owners :wub:

the GSD is a great breed and you will have many wonderful years with one!! I don't think getting a dog from Germany is bad-but it wouldn't be the best route to take...for me personally. My dog actually came from a breeder who works her dogs way more than the minimum requirements over in germany.
Both parents have the top rated elbows and hips that they can have (which was something that was important to me). My puppy's sire was actually an import from Germany...but the breeder/trainer is very well renown and has his own personal contacts: John Riboni About German Shepherd Watch Dogs

My puppy's breeder herself trains and shows her dogs and this was actually the 2nd time she bred this dam to the same sire. She loved the first litter so much that she did it again a few years later  It is very cool to see Samson's siblings 2 years older then him 

Getting to know the breeder is a great experience too. You get to see how they take care of the dogs, feed the dogs, start to train the dogs, what tests me puts them through. My breeder will even watch my dog when I got out of town!!

I also have a pound dog that OWNS my heart in the best of way 

whatever way you choose, you chose an amazing breed-and don't take the whole puppy thing too lightly-this is SERIOUS business! :wild:


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Good luck with whatever you decide! Though I must say the GSD I posted looks wonderful! Perfect age and the German lines you are looking for. Plus already has some training and you'll have a good idea of her personality.

I agree with others saying there ARE great breeders now here in the USA and many of there dogs came over from Germany! So they already did the hard part of working with the German breeders and figuring out the bloodline/genetic/temperament maze and will have some dogs you can actually see/meet. Plus the speaking English thing


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## PaulH (Aug 24, 2005)

Just 18 months ago, I paid 800 Euros for my Jimbeam Talka Marda/Hesca Kalten Hardt puppy. That was $1164 at that time. Now every breeder I talk to is asking 1,000 Euros for a puppy. I used Gradlyn and paid about $900 for everything. It was expensive but they took care of every detail. A friend helped me with customs at the Phila airport. I have to say the breeders are a young couple and out of a litter of five, I got just what I asked for.. He is beautiful, friendly and is going to be good at schutzhund not great. Since they have only bred two litters, I did not have to deal with a big name kennel. But I did tons of research and talked to owners of parents and one of the grandmothers. Kinda of still wish I had gotten a Javir pup too.
Paul


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Not every breeder charges a thousand euro. Mine still takes 800 for his and most of the breeders I know stay below a thousand as well 

I used petair and paid a little over 500 Euros to ship my puppy from Frankfurt to NY. However, the breeder drove it from Austria to Frankfurt so I did not have to pay petair to pick him up.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

interested to know if you heard any more about the adult that MRL posted? I'm by no means new to dogs had plenty of puppies of different breeds and even 2 GSD pups before so knew all about puppyhood the biting etc.. HA!! I THOUGHT I knew that is until little miss Jinx came along and I realized what a true GSD is and just why they are called land sharks.. I can't even put the differences into words. If you are getting a puppy did you decide on working or show lines? I know sometimes people seem pushy or all sorts of things but if you honestly sit back and calm yourself down and read read READ you'll see just how passionate this crowd is when it comes to GSDs. You learn who likes to nit pick at people, who has extremely invaluable information, and basically learn who to just brush off and who to really listen to. Definitely stick around because once that pup comes home you will DEFINITELY need the help of these experts around here.. same with an adult there will be moments when you need help or just others who have been there and can tell you its all normal.


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