# Can't make the decision to spay!!! Help!!!!!



## Shadow's mommy (May 9, 2020)

All of you my pros! You know this breed. I am new...
Shadow is 16 months. My breeder told me to wait between 24 and 30 months old to have her spayed. That she would get her full growth specially the head and shoulders. 
Is this true? What did you do? 
Thank you
A lost mommy!!!!


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## Carlos V (Apr 30, 2020)

In humans early suppression of sexual hormones is very detrimental. I won't do it on my dog at least til 2 years old.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

My previous dog was intact her entire life, my current dog is intact, she's 3 1/2.
Is there a reason for not waiting?


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## Shadow's mommy (May 9, 2020)

Honestly? The hype! We do not want puppies. But Shadow is never alone anywhere. My husband watches her like a hawk...and she works so hard! She is my service dog.
People seem to be staying their dogs very young: for me I am asking advice mainly because it is major surgery...it scares me.


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## xthine (Nov 9, 2018)

Thank you for starting this thread Shadow's Mommy! 
Our dogs are roughly the same age, Josie is currently in her 2nd heat cycle and I've been wondering about when to have her spayed. Very concerned about unwanted pregnancy, especially since she wandered off our property and was gone for about 10 minutes yesterday.
I am planning to speak to the vet about OSS. In this case I wouldn't think one has to wait til after 2 years old since the ability to produce reproductive hormones remains intact. 
Are you opting for traditional vs non traditional spay?


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## Shadow's mommy (May 9, 2020)

Traditional. I was going to call tomorrow but now I am putting it off .....I hate to make a bad decision. I need more advice and to read about it more. Until I am fully certain. Once you speak to your vet would you mind sharing? I am very interested!


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## Carlos V (Apr 30, 2020)

xthine said:


> Thank you for starting this thread Shadow's Mommy!
> Our dogs are roughly the same age, Josie is currently in her 2nd heat cycle and I've been wondering about when to have her spayed. Very concerned about unwanted pregnancy, especially since she wandered off our property and was gone for about 10 minutes yesterday.
> I am planning to speak to the vet about OSS. In this case I wouldn't think one has to wait til after 2 years old since the ability to produce reproductive hormones remains intact.
> Are you opting for traditional vs non traditional spay?


Please what is OSS?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Fosters that I had were spayed prior to leaving me regardless if they were 10 weeks or ten years.
My personal dogs. Lex was spayed at 12 months, she was kind of leggy as an adult. Sabi was spayed at 3.5 years, she was built like a tank. Shadow is 9.5 and still intact. 
If you cannot prevent puppies then have her spayed now. In general it's best to wait until growth and development are finished, including mental development but keep in mind that their are life threatening risks involved with keeping them intact all their lives. 
And did you say this is your service dog? Not to pry but does that mean she accompanies you in public?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Carlos V said:


> Please what is OSS?











What is an Ovary-Sparing Spay?


If you want to prevent unwanted litters but don't want to put your female dog at risk for health problems, consider a partial spay or an ovary-sparing spay.




www.petguide.com


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## Carlos V (Apr 30, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> What is an Ovary-Sparing Spay?
> 
> 
> If you want to prevent unwanted litters but don't want to put your female dog at risk for health problems, consider a partial spay or an ovary-sparing spay.
> ...


Thanks


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## Shadow's mommy (May 9, 2020)

Shadow does accompany me in public. She had a special diaper during her first heat. That for me is no issue as it blends in with her vest. 
She is in training still. I have found that when in heat? She was a little distracted but not that much more...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

@Fodder


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I believe in giving service dogs, including (especially) those in training a break during their heat cycles. 3 weeks is not going to be detrimental to their training... it can be a highly stressful time for them, physically and mentally, resulting in odd behaviors and/or reactions that they typically wouldn’t display... they can be less reliable (task dependent) which in some cases can be dangerous, they’re vulnerable to harassment from other dogs (not to mention a disturbance to other service dogs that may be working in close proximity) and in some situations can be considered unsanitary, even with the diaper. I don’t know if the ada specifically spells it out, but it’d think it could fall under general grooming/hygiene standards.

anyway... not to derail the thread, just some ethical housekeeping and things to consider  As far as when to spay... personally, I tend to agree with breeder in waiting til age two (IF you can manage her heats), especially if this dog is to be used for any sort of mobility aid as it will ensure proper muscle/structural development. As far as her head size and other secondary sex characteristics... that’s a male thing.

it’s been a billion years since I’ve had to look into having a personal dog of mine spayed... but from the bit of knowledge I have of some of the more modern techniques available - I’d probably opt for a lap spay... it’s much less invasive and will have her back on her feet in a matter of days vs weeks.


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## Shadow's mommy (May 9, 2020)

Thank you so much for all the replies! It is helping me greatly to make an informed decision. And at this time we will wait. 
I wish it would be so simple as giving Shadow a break...She is my chemo partner. Which means she travels with me across the border , and helps me with all kinds of tasks. We try to avoid her heat period, but Shadow does not have an off button. Doing her work is playtime for her🤭. She gets extremely upset to be left behind...
Thank again!!!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Deja is 6 years old and was spayed last month. I was planning on keeping her intact but she developed a mammary tumor that had to be removed. I decided to have her spayed to curb the estrogen that might be feeding new ones. For a few years I went back and forth and now I am happy it was done.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Cava turned 2 in early January, and I've been trying to get her spayed ever since, lol. I had an appointment for a laparoscopic spay with a gastropexy and OFA x-rays scheduled for the middle of February but she went into heat at the end of January so I had to reschedule. 

Then TWICE after that, the doctor was not going to be there on the rescheduled date, so I had to reschedule both of those appointments. 

And then the pandemic happened and all non-essential surgeries were cancelled, and here we are, lol. She could go into heat as early as the end of next month so it's possible I won't make it this time either and will have to wait a couple more months. It was 7 months between heat one and two and 5 months between heat two and three so it's a wild guess on the next one - sometime between the end of June and end of August. Her heats aren't a big deal at all, but I really want the pexy and the OFAs done as soon as possible and it's a lot less expensive to put her under once and get everything done at the same time.


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## crittersitter (Mar 31, 2011)

My current female GSD was spayed at about 16 months with no issues. My male GSD is still intact and is over 2 now.


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## xthine (Nov 9, 2018)

Shadow's mommy said:


> Traditional. I was going to call tomorrow but now I am putting it off .....I hate to make a bad decision. I need more advice and to read about it more. Until I am fully certain. Once you speak to your vet would you mind sharing? I am very interested!


Sure! I was planning to have the procedure done 3 months after her cycle ends so might set up an appointment to talk to the vet in a month. We have to travel quite a distance for that visit since our regular vet does not perform OSS.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Shadow's mommy said:


> Shadow does accompany me in public. She had a special diaper during her first heat. That for me is no issue as it blends in with her vest.
> She is in training still. I have found that when in heat? She was a little distracted but not that much more...


I think this is a major public perception issue and I wouldn't do it. One of the most basic rules for a sd to be allowed in public with its partner is that it is housebroken.

How are staff or the general public going to understand why your dog is wearing a diaper? 

And what'a the difference anyway? She is having bodily functions come out of her. She should not be working in public.

If I was raising/training a female for this I'd do something else with her during that time, get her thru maybe 1 heat then spay.

2 heats maybe. If you really need this dog to work with you in public and she has had one heat already my vote is spay now. The last thing SDs need is one more public perception problem.


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## Shadow's mommy (May 9, 2020)

At this point I will simply take away my alerts on this post as my questions was about donating my dog, not about any concerns or judgement on her being a SD, the way we ( my team) and I decide when she should work or not. I feel disrespected and judged. Thank you for all the positive comments and interactions. As for the rest, I will simply ignore ignorance.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

You’re overreacting. Nobody is judging or disrespecting you, they’re trying to help. You asked for advice and people gave you advice. Just because you don’t like some of the advice doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with it.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Shadow's mommy said:


> At this point I will simply take away my alerts on this post as my questions was about donating my dog, not about any concerns or judgement on her being a SD, the way we ( my team) and I decide when she should work or not. I feel disrespected and judged. Thank you for all the positive comments and interactions. As for the rest, I will simply ignore ignorance.


You know, you’ve gotta do whatever is right for you and helps you to navigate this site comfortably... although yes, you got some unsolicited input based on previous, public, posts of yours... but every single reply in this thread also gave you information and opinions regarding your dogs spay - some that I feel was even more relevant to your situation knowing that your dog is a service dog.

its not everyday on this board that you come across a SD handler and a SD trainer, yet you had both willing to share in this thread...

I’ll stop there.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

To the Op, just because a member “likes” a reply doesn’t mean that you are not liked. Also often I have found that when a reply ruffles my feathers I take more time to think on it. Usually I have let my heart rule what my head didn’t have a chance to chew on.

Dogs in panties do not bother me if outside but if in a super market where food is, I would find it a bit disconcerting. Perhaps there is no basis but I think the general public just has an aversion to what diapers imply. I cringe when I see human babies in just a diaper sitting in a shopping cart.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OP, If I were you, I could care less what the public thinks. You do whatever you decide. As long as your dog is behaving well in public, there is no issue IMO. But if there is an intact male close by you when your dog is in heat, you better hope that that dog is under control. I kept Deja home when she was in heat and took a break from everything. I kinda enjoyed that and she as fine. BTW, why is a diaper more of a concern than a stupidly dressed up dog? I consider a dog with a diaper to have responsible owners.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

I was caught between breeder advice and the vet. The vet is at least respectful of my wishes, though she weighs in favor of spaying. My dog has been through one heat cycle, and remains intact. The breeder made the pitch that going through at least one or two heat cycles would help her reach full maturity. 

It was not a particularly messy first heat. While my wife and I are not overly "house proud," neither do we say, "here is the house, go ahead and destroy it!" Within those parameters, it was totally manageable. We have a decent carpet shampooer, but did not wind up needing it. 

I expected some male nuisance dogs, out on walks, if nowhere else. Not so much. Indeed, not at all, now that I think about it. Kind of surprising. I guess most people where I am living neuter their male dogs. We have male dogs on each side of our property, and they must be neutered. 

My vet pitched some health benefits on certain kinds of cancers. But I think when one pores over the various studies out there, benefits/drawbacks cut both ways with the obvious exception that spaying will avoid unwanted puppies.


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## T'Challa! (Dec 4, 2019)

Shadow's mommy said:


> All of you my pros! You know this breed. I am new...
> Shadow is 16 months. My breeder told me to wait between 24 and 30 months old to have her spayed. That she would get her full growth specially the head and shoulders.
> Is this true? What did you do?
> Thank you
> A lost mommy!!!!


I waited til my boy was a year and half, which was 2 days ago LOL because of this 'Full Growth" thing! If you're willing to deal with periods and all that and the attitude that comes with being intact go for it!


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## Landshark (Aug 20, 2010)

I would get her spayed now and be done with it. Pick a time when you and her will be able to be home for a couple of weeks so she can heal, and then you are done with it and life goes on - safely! You knew this time would happen and here it is. This should be the hardest thing you two will have to go through! Good luck!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

T'Challa! said:


> I waited til my boy was a year and half, which was 2 days ago LOL because of this 'Full Growth" thing! If you're willing to deal with periods and all that and the attitude that comes with being intact go for it!


Attitude seems a weird reason for spaying a dog. Training will do the trick.


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## Lmep (Feb 10, 2020)

xthine said:


> Thank you for starting this thread Shadow's Mommy!
> Our dogs are roughly the same age, Josie is currently in her 2nd heat cycle and I've been wondering about when to have her spayed. Very concerned about unwanted pregnancy, especially since she wandered off our property and was gone for about 10 minutes yesterday.
> I am planning to speak to the vet about OSS. In this case I wouldn't think one has to wait til after 2 years old since the ability to produce reproductive hormones remains intact.
> Are you opting for traditional vs non traditional spay?


Wait...No, hormone production does NOT remain intact with spaying. ALL repro organs are removed... ovaries especially, since that's where the eggs are.


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## Allmychildren (May 20, 2020)

Shadow's mommy said:


> All of you my pros! You know this breed. I am new...
> Shadow is 16 months. My breeder told me to wait between 24 and 30 months old to have her spayed. That she would get her full growth specially the head and shoulders.
> Is this true? What did you do?
> Thank you
> A lost mommy!!!!


In the long run, it's an individual, personal decision. Every owner is different, so I'll put my two cents in as one who has had service dogs, has had several dogs spayed/neutered and has had a few regrets in some cases.

We've had a few dogs that were so unique in their temperament (my mobility service dog was the best example) or their skills as a search and rescue dog, that we wish we could have waited before spaying or neutering. Happy was a one-in-a-million service dog, who came to us neutered. Had he been donated to us before the neutering, I would have probably been able to train the pup to model after him, before he passed. He had amazing instinct and qualities. Unfortunately, I've yet to find a match to replace him, or his unique abilities.

If I could have done it over, I would have waited in several cases, not only because vets do often recommend waiting to the time described, but also because as the owner and trainer of a service dog, you are still learning about the dog's temperament during early development. Will she be that 1-in-a-million service dog that could also provide a future generation of support for you? It's worth weighing that question sometimes.

Good luck! Hope this helps!


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## Shepherdgirl7 (May 6, 2020)

Shadow's mommy said:


> All of you my pros! You know this breed. I am new...
> Shadow is 16 months. My breeder told me to wait between 24 and 30 months old to have her spayed. That she would get her full growth specially the head and shoulders.
> Is this true? What did you do?
> Thank you
> A lost mommy!!!!


HI, I waited to have my current male neutered till about a year and a half. I had my previous boys neutered earlier. I have not noticed any difference. Vets say do it earlier...breeders say do it later. I would take into consideration the fact that it is harder on them the older they get, especially the females. If you have no intention on breeding I would say you have waited long enough. Waiting longer will make it harder on her when that time comes.
Good luck!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Lmep said:


> Wait...No, hormone production does NOT remain intact with spaying. ALL repro organs are removed... ovaries especially, since that's where the eggs are.


OOS = ovary _sparing_ spay


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I had to deal with a horrible case of pyometra in our Aussie. She had mostly silent heats, no problems. We were diligent in keeping her away from intact males while she was in heat, so no opps litters.

Then she got pyometra and the surgery and recovery was hard on her. She was seven years at the time and was very sick. The guilt I felt and the worry I had was enough to change my mind about spays. Yes, let them develop. But don't put it off like I did. Once they hit two years? Unless you have competitive requirements to keep them intact? Spay.
Sheilah


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## 1355gsd (Dec 19, 2019)

Shadow's mommy said:


> All of you my pros! You know this breed. I am new...
> Shadow is 16 months. My breeder told me to wait between 24 and 30 months old to have her spayed. That she would get her full growth specially the head and shoulders.
> Is this true? What did you do?
> Thank you
> A lost mommy!!!!


Yes, that is true! Wait until at least two years old if you have to have her spayed. She won’t be finished growing until 2 years old. Those joints and growth plates need to close.


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## von Wolfstal German Sheph (Feb 24, 2020)

Shadow's mommy said:


> All of you my pros! You know this breed. I am new...
> Shadow is 16 months. My breeder told me to wait between 24 and 30 months old to have her spayed. That she would get her full growth specially the head and shoulders.
> Is this true? What did you do?
> Thank you
> A lost mommy!!!!


Yes this is very true. Studies have been conducted by UC Davis a large breed and Shepherds do not finish developing until 24 months. Spaying and neutering shouldn’t be done before 24 months. There is a reason why as Breeders we say to wait unless there is a health reason to do it earlier. My husband was from Germany and told me about this before the study was posted. If at all possible I would suggest following what your Breeder has guided you on. It is something that is very noticeable in a male between 2- 2 1/2 a male’s head gets the width and the masculinity develops depending on the bloodlines. Spaying early is similar to giving a young girl a hysterectomy. I couldn’t post the link to the study for you but you should be able to find it through a google search .. I hopes this helps you


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## von Wolfstal German Sheph (Feb 24, 2020)

SharonCull9624 said:


> Yes this is very true. Studies have been conducted by UC Davis a large breed and Shepherds do not finish developing until 24 months. Spaying and neutering shouldn’t be done before 24 months. There is a reason why as Breeders we say to wait unless there is a health reason to do it earlier. My husband was from Germany and told me about this before the study was posted. If at all possible I would suggest following what your Breeder has guided you on. It is something that is very noticeable in a male between 2- 2 1/2 a male’s head gets the width and the masculinity develops depending on the bloodlines. Spaying early has the possibility of developing serious problems .. Golden retriever study suggests neutering affects dog health
> I hopes this helps you


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

sitstay said:


> I had to deal with a horrible case of pyometra in our Aussie. She had mostly silent heats, no problems. We were diligent in keeping her away from intact males while she was in heat, so no opps litters.
> 
> Then she got pyometra and the surgery and recovery was hard on her. She was seven years at the time and was very sick. The guilt I felt and the worry I had was enough to change my mind about spays. Yes, let them develop. But don't put it off like I did. Once they hit two years? Unless you have competitive requirements to keep them intact? Spay.
> Sheilah


Right there with you. Shadow is 9. I watch her like a hawk now. It was never my intention to keep her intact and now I have finally found a vet willing to put her under I need to weigh the age risk. It's horrible, I'm between a rock and a hard place. Though not as panicky as I was when there was no vet within a 2 hour drive except on Wednesday.
Next one is getting done at 2, no question.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

We waited 2 heat cycles for Zoda. She was about 16 months old when we had her spayed. I didn't weight because she was fully grown to standard size. She also has sensory processing disorder. Not sure on her lineage, but I think her family tree is a wreath. If circumstances were different, I would have waited. I just didn't want to risk further polluting the gene pool. She did great with it. She has had no problems and is a healthy...mostly happy....2 and a half year old.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Moxy said:


> Not sure on her lineage, but I think her family tree is a wreath


You just made me spit water! 
I call Shadow my little genetic nightmare, but I like your description better. So I am stealing it!
Our dogs may be related. Lol.
But she's cute, so I'll probably keep her.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I spayed Carly at 6 because I was afraid of pyo. I threaten to spay Scarlet all the time, but, you know, show dog, so no spay. She’ll be 4 in August. I honestly think I’m done showing her. Maybe. She should’ve been finished by now, but circumstances stopped me from showing her very much. I’m torn. Once spayed, no more showing. She’ll never be bred, no matter if she gets her championship or not. 

If I had a pet versus show dog, I’d probably spay at 3.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

sitstay said:


> I had to deal with a horrible case of pyometra in our Aussie. She had mostly silent heats, no problems. We were diligent in keeping her away from intact males while she was in heat, so no opps litters.
> 
> Then she got pyometra and the surgery and recovery was hard on her. She was seven years at the time and was very sick. The guilt I felt and the worry I had was enough to change my mind about spays. Yes, let them develop. But don't put it off like I did. Once they hit two years? Unless you have competitive requirements to keep them intact? Spay.
> Sheilah


 The fear of Pyo was the reason for considering spaying. I still couldn't make up my mind until the mammary tumor. A next female will be spayed much sooner than at 6 years old.


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## xthine (Nov 9, 2018)

Lmep said:


> Wait...No, hormone production does NOT remain intact with spaying. ALL repro organs are removed... ovaries especially, since that's where the eggs are.


Fodder is correct, Ovaries are spared in the partial spay/Ovary sparing spay , so hormone production will remain intact.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

My two are 6 & 10. With the 10 yo I got some "spay" pressure from the vet. I took in the information about hemangio & spaying --- it was an eye-opener for the vet - after reading it she said "It's not as cut and dried as we thought it was, is it." The now 10 yo stayed intact until she was 4. Her false pregnancies affected her to the point that during those periods she thought no other dog belonged on the face of the earth. My now 6 yo remains intact. No false pregnancies but the typical pre-heat hair dump. No pregnancies in either bitch. For the first 3.5 years with the older dog, we lived in town. Didn't turn out to be a problem. Now we live in the country. Has not been a problem to date.

Weigh the health issues (mammary cancer can be detected and survived, hemangio, well, no), decide if and when.


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