# Anabolic Steroids/senior GSD



## LJsMom

LJ's acupuncture vet prescribed anabolic steroids (2 mg twice a day) due to loss of muscle mass. I read that they can be very bad for the heart. (http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=0+1306+1448&aid=1336, last paragraph) She does have mild left atrial enlargement. After being a Cujo all her life, she's finally mellowing out. 

I called her regular vet. She feels the meds are safe for LJ. I have a call into LJ's cardiologist.

Does anyone have any experience with dogs and anabolic steroids? Any thoughts, concerns, comments...?


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## tuco

You have absolutely nothing to worry about concerning heart problems with proper use of AAS.
I do wonder why your Vet prescribed Winstrol-V tabs, instead of a Cycle of Deca (nandrolone decanoate). 
Deca is far, far, superior than Winstrol-V for building muscle mass. Deca's ability to relieve pain in joints, due to it's ability to increase bone mineral content and collagen synthesis, makes it a valuable med for many older canines.

An 8 week Cycle of weekly injections of 50mg of Deca, would show dramatic all around improvement in your old girl.


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## LJsMom

Thank you Tuco. I will ask about the Deca. 

Everything I've read talks about muscle mass being rebuilt due to increased appetite. She already has a great appetite.


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## tuco

AAS repair and recoup muscle. Whether the muscle loss be from injury or surgery, Wasting in older dogs and humans, or performance athletes who have torn down their muscles from training.

In 1929 a procedure to produce an extract of potent activity from bull's testicles was attempted, and in 1935 a more purified form of this extract was created. A year later, a scientist named Ruzicka synthesized this compound, testosterone, from cholesterol, as did two other scientists, Butenandt and Hanisch . Testosterone was, of course, the first anabolic steroid ever created, and remains the basis for all other derivations we have currently being used in medicine today. Testosterone was then used in 1936, in an experiment demonstrating that nitrogen excretion of the castrated dog could be increased by giving the dog supplemental testosterone, and this would increase its body weight.

In the 60's if one went to a doctor and asked for a scrip of Dianabol (then the most popular AAS) the doctor would read from a Medical Journal, and state....Warning: the use of AAS does not enhance physical potential.
Of course, now we know just how incorrect those old medical journals were.

In the 60's we were giving performance dogs the old CIBA Dianabol and Anavar and Nelavar as well.
In the 60's and 70's, most every legit Vet in the nation had some Maxibolin yellow triangle orals to prescribe to serious canine post op patients.

In the 80's the injectables became popular. The oil based Equipoise and Deca being the favorites.
Each Steroid is different. Each has different effects and different Anabolic(muscle building) properties, and different Androgenic(Masculinizing) properties.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give bigger tendons. However, the body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. Many athletes who work out anaerobically, become injured while on winstrol. Athletes like baseball players, who sprint all out from a stationary position, Winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like Winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to athletes who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.


To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Equipoise, Deca, Anavar, or Primobolin.


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## LJsMom

Thanks for the input! I printed it out to talk to the vet.


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## LisaT

Tuco, do you know of any type of natural supplementation that might be precursers, or help with this same condition? I know that there are some kinda scary supplements, but I'm looking for something that would help support my girl with advanced heart disease with her muscle loss. No vet here would prescribe this stuff, I'm not sure how comfortable I would be with it anyway, and I want to stay away from some of those supps that are worrisome. My stb-ex took some of those supplements and while they really worked for him in terms of muscle building, he was really an







while on them.


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## tuco

Supplements are a multi billion dollar business for humans and also for canines.
Many products are no more than hype.
No supplement can compare to a drug. That's why Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) are used. (Because they work!)

With older canines, it's not the fact that they won't eat or don't ingest enough calories. The problem is, they don't absorb or digest enough from what they eat.

For these older canines, I believe that predigested supps are mandatory. There are a bunch out there.
http://www.k9power.com/
http://k9performance.com/
http://getcni.com/crel-615/index.php?cPath=22
The DogForte below is predigested and works very well on older canines.
http://blackgolddogfood.com/forte.htm

Protein feeds Muscle. Older canines need Proteins they can absorb.
When you feed these proteins is as important as what you feed.
After a long walk or type of workout, your dog's body is a literal sponge. In a highly catabolic state it will soak up anything you give it! 
You have 30min post workout to give your charge the power shake he-she needs. 
Fast absorption via digestion, is of paramount importance at 
this stage. So a liquid or powdered form of protein derived from hydrolyzed whey is the best logical supplement. 
Whey in powder or liquid form takes an average of 20 minutes 
to absorb, making this form of protein number one in the race for 
assimilation. 

A scoop of Whey Protein has around 25 grams of much needed Protein for your canine. It should be mixed with a transport of Dextrose and or Maltodextrin.

Before your older canine retires for the night a scoop of Casein Protein will digest slowly and feed their body throughout the night.

The use of AAS(Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids) in canines is certainly nothing new. Top greyhound Racing kennels have been using them for decades. The use of AAS have certainly not been limited to Greyhounds either.

No Steroid is a magic elixir. They are simply a tool that aids the Canine or human athlete in recovery, muscle building, and some like Equipoise, will increase the Red blood cell count and aid in the transport of oxygen as well as improve nutrient transport, making less food become more efficient. 

You would really have to give crazy massive dosages, to cause damage to a Canine with a cycle of AAS. If done properly there shoud be no negative effects what so ever.

Just like humans, some Canines are better candidates for AAS, and their bodies respond better than others. Other variables come into play as well when thinking of using AAS. I would be much more apt to use AAS on a hard gainer, than I would an easy keeper who has difficulty losing fat and unhealthy weight.

I knew dog trainers of weight pull dogs, who would put a few Cheque drops on their charge's tongue right before Showtime. Cheque drops had no anabolic(muscle building) properties what so ever, but their androgenic(masculinizing) properties were off the charts. 

The old discontinued "Cheque Drops" by Upjohn, is given to females to keep them from coming into season. Milberone(Cheque Drops) is still available at certain Vet Pharmacies and on the black market. A few drops under or on the tongue cause a androgenic rush and aggression. Carnation had a big contract with Upjohn to make a feed with the Cheque Drops already in it. This is a long read, but very informative and shows why Upjohn and Carnation could never pull off their feed. Word around the campfire is that Tyson took Milberone(Cheque Drops) before he bit Holyfields ear off. 
http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/ru4861100.html

In regards to canines with joint problems, I assure you that there is nothing on the planet that aids joints as well as Deca Durabolin (nandrolone decanoate). Deca works on two fronts as an androgen, which have well-documented effects on 
corticosteroids, and as a progestin to reduce inflammation. Some DVM's use Deca to treat canines with renal failure. 

The outstanding NCAA Heavy Weight Champion Wrestler and MMA Fighter, Mark Kerr, put it best when he said,"Steroids will not make you crazy if the tendency isn't there already, just as they won't make you a great athlete if you aren't already.
If you're already Great, they will make you Greater.


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## LisaT

Tuco, thanks a bunch for all the info. I will have to spend some time to look up the links and get through the reads. 

I have always used whey powder off and on, but maybe time to change things up a bit.

Thanks a bunch, may have questions later.


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## LisaT

Okay, none of the products that you posted will would work for my dogs, either containing things like chicken or colostrum.

Curious is you know of a simple product for humans, with no flavoring (or vanilla) and no bad sweeteners, that might work?


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## tuco

Most any of the top Premixed formulas will have dextrose and or maltodextrin. They are used and needed as a transport to replenish muscle glycogen. 

The only thing I can think of, is possibly creating your own Protein and supplement at the Protein Factory.
http://proteinfactory.com/shop/home.php


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## LisaT

I wasn't so concerned with the dextrose, etc., just that most of the human products contain things like aspartame, which I don't want to use.

Any opinion on this one:
http://www.vitacost.com/Jarrow-Formulas-100-Natural-Whey-Protein


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## tuco

The Jarrow product looks very Nice! No flavors or sucralose. Nothing artificial. Just what you were looking for.
You can customise it any way you like.


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## LisaT

Thanks!


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## fredflint

*Your Acupuncture Vet?*

Hi there, 

You posted a long time ago about your dear German Shepherd getting anabolic steroids for muscle mass improvement. I'm having trouble finding a vet who is willing to do that. If you ever come back here (and I hope you do!), could you provide me the name of that vet? 

Thank you so much!

Fred


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## SteveAU

Bumping an old post.
I found this thread a few years ago and tried Deca Durabolin / Nandrolone for my Kelpie.
Ive done it each winter for 12 to 16 weeks and have had great results for my boy.

We have just finished another winter here in Australia and its worked well. 
Joint lubrication and muscle maintenance in the colder months is very important.

Thank you for the info in this thread. I had to sign up to show my appreciation.


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