# Breeding different colors?



## sspbass (Apr 17, 2007)

Are there any adverse effects of breeding a White GSD with a Black & Tan GSD?
I am looking at some puppies that were breed from that combination. About half are each color and both parents/grandparents have excellent health histories.


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Seriously consider why the breeding is taking place. White is a disqualifying fault within the breed. Not that there is anything wrong with white GSD's, but make sure this is not a case of throwing 2 dogs together because one happened to be white and one black and tan and they wanted the female to experience the joys of motherhood. In general, I cannot imagine what improvement of the breed could be happening with this pairing.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No. Not really. Serious breeders stay away from white as it is a disqualifying fault. I think that it is more irresponsible to breed dogs with faulty temperament or health problems, but there it is. The breeders who may be reputably breeding white dogs, breeding and showing their dogs in UKC rings, or working them, probably would be breeding white to other whites, but might add a black and tan to interject some trait, and expand the gene pool. 

Mostly though, we tend to frown on breeding off-colors, or disqualifying faults.


----------



## sspbass (Apr 17, 2007)

What do you guys think of the pedigree? Seems legitimate to me but then again I don't know much. I was pointed their direction from someone on this site. 
Let me know what you think?

Link to pedigree


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I am not a fan of the White GSD, but there are many serious breeders of WGSD who are not just throwing dogs together. The WGSD is not a considered a disqualifying fault in all arenas, either. Just let sleeping dogs lie. 

I would pay attention to the same things we recommend for all breeders. Why are they doing this breeding? What health tests have they done on these dogs? What are their goals in their breeding program? ETC. There is a good thread about searching for a responsible breeder on this site. Don't have time to look for the link.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Looks legitimate to me as well. I really don't know American show lines well enough to comment on the pedigree, but they certainly seem to have all their ducks in a row with regard to proving this breeding pair in their venue of choice (conformation showing) while at the same time putting emphasis on some performance titles/temperament testing and health screening. Something that sadly a lot of show breeders tend to skip, and it's very refreshing to see one who finds those things important too.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

If I were looking for a white puppy, I would seriously look at this breeder. Good health clearances, good conformation ratings, and some performance testing.


----------



## sspbass (Apr 17, 2007)

I like the classic Black & Tan look. I'm going to call them this afternoon and just wanted to get you guy's opinion. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

My Black and Tan GSD's sire is a WGSD and the bitch is a Black and Tan. He is 19 months old and at this point I have no health or behavioral issues with him. He is a LH and his colors are dilute. So not the standard GSD that folks look for. 

He is missing toes on one of his back paws, but that was due to a whelping accident and not genetic.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you are asking whether there are health issues related to the white color, no. It is not the same as other breeds where "lethal white" or sometimes blue (Dobes) often indicates other health or skin issues. In GSDs it's simply masking the color of the coat.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This seems to be one of the breeders actually showing their dog UKC, excellent. I would say you found a good breeder from their website. They have black and tans in the litter. If you intend on breeding down the line you might not want white close in the background, but that would be the only reason I might not go with them. 

Good luck.


----------



## sspbass (Apr 17, 2007)

So will the black and tans be lighter colored when they get older?
They look pretty dark now and that's what I like.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would say no. probably not. The gene that makes a dog white is not the same as the one that dilutes coats.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm not a color expert, so I really can't help you there. I do know that my guy started out dark, and now he has a faded saddle. Because he is a LH, and his color is diluted, he has a really unique color.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This site German Shepherd Coat Colors - GSD coat colors had the following information, and also some good info on colors:

"White coat color is completely independent of the genes for agouti (sable), two-tone, or solid patterns that occur in other "colored" dogs. White is also totally independent of either of the blue or liver dilution genes found in the breed. The white gene masks the genetic *coat pigment* of the German Shepherd Dog, although it does not affect skin pigment. "

If that breaks any copywrite laws, please remove.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

sspbass said:


> So will the black and tans be lighter colored when they get older?
> They look pretty dark now and that's what I like.


all black and tan pups are dark when born - as they get older, they get lighter....if you want a dark pup with less tan, you need to find a bi-color or blanketed pup

Lee


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes, I agree, all black and tans lighten up, I just thought he meant would having a white dam, would that cause the dog to lighten up more than what is usual for GSDs. Where did I read that if you want to improve the black on your dogs, breed to a sable, not a black. Is that true?

I mean, I only have experience with black and tans. But Rush's sire was black and Rush threw puppies that were all pretty dark, some blanket backs.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I should say that my GSD's color is faded, or weak. I forgot that "diluted' can describe an actual gene.


----------



## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

I think this is a nice pairing, I've looked at WGSDs before and have seen the Regalwise and Eclipse lined dogs before - nice dogs and great health testing. You'd have no trouble finding a nice puppy in this litter I would think. 

I just wish there were puppy pictures!


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

sspbass said:


> What do you guys think of the pedigree? Seems legitimate to me but then again I don't know much. I was pointed their direction from someone on this site.
> Let me know what you think?
> 
> Link to pedigree


If I were looking for a puppy I would certainly put this breeder on my short list of puppies to consider. I've met some of the dogs in the pedigree and am familiar with some of the others ... nice dogs.


----------



## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Like I said in the PM, please take the opportunity to pay Debbie and Sammy a visit in person and meet the dogs if possible. Those who have met Major in person has had nothing but good things to say about his friendly temperament, and Desi is the dam of Dex (Eclipse's DedicationtoExcellence) a black/tan German Shepherd with great success in the conformation ring and in the performance sports. This is Major's first litter (but not Desi's) and the first litter bred by this breeder, although they do have help from Donna at Eclipse Kennels. They put a lot of work into their dogs. However, meeting the parents in person and speaking to the breeders will give you a much better feel for their dogs, their goals, and the puppies they hope to produce. 

By the way, this is a link to the main website, for anyone who may be curious
Home - Faithful German Shepherd Dogs


----------



## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

sspbass said:


> So will the black and tans be lighter colored when they get older?
> They look pretty dark now and that's what I like.


Take a look at the sire, Major - he is by a white sire (a Regalwise male) and a black/tan dam (Samuri's Pixel Perfect). I do not think his coat is any lighter than his dam's (who does not have any whites in the 5 generation pedigree to the best of my knowledge). Major's littermate Rooster is even darker.


----------

