# Over excited when people come over



## anushtharnari (Sep 15, 2012)

I have an 18 month old male pure breed gsd of german bloodlines and no matter how much exercise he has gotten when my friends come over he loses it. He runs around the house, chases his tail, jumps on everybody and its like there are no rules when people come over. It's very frustrating. I need help on how to stop this behavior because its getting to the point where I don't want anyone coming to my house because I know he is going to freak out. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

What do you do with him when people come over? Do you make him lay down or anything? Does he have a crate in the common area or a bed?

We are going through a similar issue with Titan.. he gets over excited too only vocally not physically. What I have to do, which has been working fairly well since we started, is as soon as the doorbell rings I tell him to "go to bed." He yaps and yips his excitedness all the way there and he has to stay there until he calms down. Literally until he does not make a peep. If I release him and he starts up.. back to bed he goes. He still gets to see everyone but he doesn't get to interact until he is calm. \

Have you tried something like that?


----------



## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

We don't get house guests often so when we do our 11 mo. old acts like a maniac. She is all over the place. Whining, spinning around and bellying up on our guests feet. 

We now leash her when anyone comes to the house. She is put in a sit while we let our guests in. She resists but we are firm and correct if she breaks her sit. Guests are asked to ignore her until she calms down. 
Once she is calm she is allowed to "say hello". If she starts getting to excited she is moved back from the guest and put into a "down stay". She is not allowed to interact with any guest unless she is calm and behaved. Only then do we remove her leash. 

This works well for us.


----------



## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

I practice the door drill a bit with my daughter and people in the neighborhood (read: kids that I can convinve to help me  ) someone knocks, dogs run to the door, I bellow "BAH", dogs stop. Call dogs to me super happy, they come. I put my back to the door and place them in a "sit" then tell them wait. Go open the door. I'd they move, close the door and start over. The kids all know they will have to door shut in their faces a few times. 

Metro 10/2005-5/2013
Sabo 3/2013-now
Kia 1/2014- now


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

^ that is a great idea... I wish I knew my neighbors, lol. I may have to mingle or even just get some friends or my BF to do it.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

invite people over and use that time to train.


----------



## nicky (Jan 12, 2014)

I have the same problem. I put the crate right by the door so if I decide to let someone in the house she goes in the crate. When we are walking and she sees someone she goes absolutely nuts trying to jump on them, chew them, and even pee's sometimes. It's like she forgets every command she knows. I would like to ask people to just ignore her but I feel rude when I do that.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

"when your dog isn't doing what you want you have to
stop and ask yourself what am i doing wrong"? i read
that somewhere.



nicky said:


> I have the same problem. I put the crate right by the door so if I decide to let someone in the house she goes in the crate. When we are walking and she sees someone she goes absolutely nuts trying to jump on them, chew them, and even pee's sometimes. It's like she forgets every command she knows. I would like to ask people to just ignore her but I feel rude when I do that.


----------



## nicky (Jan 12, 2014)

doggiedad said:


> "when your dog isn't doing what you want you have to
> stop and ask yourself what am i doing wrong"? i read
> that somewhere.



Totally agree, that's why I am here!!!!


----------



## anushtharnari (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies! When my friends come over we try to put him in a sit stay/down stay but it doesn't work. He sits and wait until they enter but after that point he then forgets about it and runs to my friends. He won't allow us to watch tv or anything. If I try to make him sit while we are doing something he will do it then cry and whine. I have tried to put him on a leash but he won't want to listen at all with that either 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

anushtharnari said:


> Thanks for all the replies! When my friends come over we try to put him in a sit stay/down stay but it doesn't work. He sits and wait until they enter but after that point he then forgets about it and runs to my friends. He won't allow us to watch tv or anything. If I try to make him sit while we are doing something he will do it then cry and whine. I have tried to put him on a leash but he won't want to listen at all with that either
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Repeat repeat repeat. They are like children. Constant reminders and they will get it. Praise when they do the right thing on their own. 

Metro 10/2005-5/2013
Sabo 3/2013-now
Kia 1/2014- now


----------



## cethlen1621 (Nov 6, 2013)

For us, we don't have a doorbell, but for new people he hasn't met who we know are coming, we take him outside on his leash to meet them outside,very helpful for people who don't hang around dogs often. He's mostly good with standing at the top of the split entry stairs until we come upstairs now. He still is excited to see them, but he isn't all over or noisy and likes sitting with us if we're playing a table-top game.The only problem is certain friends who have the wrong mentality(they shouldn't have dogs probably) and get any animals riled up as soon as they enter the door. Our guy's still mostly good when people like that come over, but they don't always realize that your dogs need set rules and training to balance behavior. Many of those friends don't get invited over as often and we meet them elsewhere most often when we get together. Good luck!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## anushtharnari (Sep 15, 2012)

cethlen1621 said:


> For us, we don't have a doorbell, but for new people he hasn't met who we know are coming, we take him outside on his leash to meet them outside,very helpful for people who don't hang around dogs often. He's mostly good with standing at the top of the split entry stairs until we come upstairs now. He still is excited to see them, but he isn't all over or noisy and likes sitting with us if we're playing a table-top game.The only problem is certain friends who have the wrong mentality(they shouldn't have dogs probably) and get any animals riled up as soon as they enter the door. Our guy's still mostly good when people like that come over, but they don't always realize that your dogs need set rules and training to balance behavior. Many of those friends don't get invited over as often and we meet them elsewhere most often when we get together. Good luck!
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


See in my case he goes crazy when friends that have been coming over since the day I got him come over. They have no intentions of making him hyper because its quite annoying for them to have a 80lbs shepherd jumping on them and running around


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

anushtharnari said:


> See in my case he goes crazy when friends that have been coming over since the day I got him come over. They have no intentions of making him hyper because its quite annoying for them to have a 80lbs shepherd jumping on them and running around


But does he do it the entire time they're there, or does he eventually calm down?



anushtharnari said:


> I have tried to put him on a leash but he won't want to listen at all with that either


Yes, but he doesn't need to listen or obey, you just need to be able to control him, and the leash will restrain him so he's not able to run around and jump all over everybody and be obnoxious. 

My dogs get very excited when we have company too - we don't have people over that often so the novelty has never worn off. But they don't stay excited for hours on end, it's actually only the first 10 or 15 minutes, maybe. So we keep them on leash during that time, and occupy them with bully sticks to chew, or a stuffed Kong, or I just make them stay in a down while I reward them with treats. Once they're calmer, I drop the leashes, and finally take the leashes off.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

When I had my Boxer and my BullMastiff/mix I had them go to bed and down when I let folks in, because they were crazy about company.

Rocky my GSD..not really a problem with him, he goes to bed gladly and then eyes company like they are raw meat! Not really a happy to see folks kinda guy.

I assume we are talking about people loving dogs here. I did find a Dog Whisper episode very Interesting;Dogo Argentino ,dog had no people issues, that's not why he was on the show. 

But at home, before folks came into the house, the dog was allowed to sniff them at the entry way, then he would turn around and go to his place and lay down!

Don't know if that would work with "people loving dog's" this guy was more like my Rocky, doesn't really care about people, just wants to know who's there but I found the approach, very interesting approch I had never seen it done that way before!

But I don't know if that approach would work with dogs that get super excited with company!


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

stop allowing your dog to jump on people.



anushtharnari said:


> See in my case he goes crazy when friends that have been coming over since the day I got him come over. They have no intentions of making him hyper because its quite annoying for them to have a 80lbs shepherd jumping on them and running around
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

your dog is in control. you take control and find a trainer.



anushtharnari said:


> Thanks for all the replies! When my friends come over we try to put him in a sit stay/down stay but it doesn't work. He sits and wait until they enter but after that point he then forgets about it and runs to my friends. He won't allow us to watch tv or anything. If I try to make him sit while we are doing something he will do it then cry and whine. I have tried to put him on a leash but he won't want to listen at all with that either
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I train a place command that means find a dog bed and lay down on it. This is best done with markers and reshaping.

Then I pair the place command to the doorbell and knock on the door, so when someone comes over they hit their beds and wait for a release.

Solid obedience training and proofing can go a long ways in controlling a situation. 

If you want help with any of this, let me know.

David Winners


----------



## NDrugerGSD (Dec 10, 2012)

Hey David, 
I am having trouble with my 1.5 year old male gsd being protective of the house. What is the best way to train the place command? 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Basically like the video below. I freeshape it instead of lure, but either works just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doZO6PiRpOo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Use whatever word you want. I use bed. After the command is reliable, I raise the criteria by adding distance, so the dog has to go to the bed, eventually in another room. Then I gradually add time, so the dog isn't allowed to leave without being released. Then I add the door knock by knocking right before saying bed 20 times in a row. Then knock and don't say bed. Reward like crazy when the dog does the right thing.

I also up the value of the bed by randomly throwing a high value treat on the bed when the dog isn't watching. Then give the place command from another room. The dog gets magically rewarded by the bed.

You can do this with any object and name it whatever you want. Carpet squares are nice if you are training multiple dogs. Fire hydrants are cool for an impressive trick. Your car for a long distance send back to the vehicle. Kennel, bathtub, scales, grooming table, kiddy pool, front porch... it's all the same training. You can train a lot of different places after you get the first one completed. The next place will go much faster. 

You can search YouTube for place command videos too. There are some good ones. 

David Winners


----------



## anushtharnari (Sep 15, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> But does he do it the entire time they're there, or does he eventually calm down?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He does do it the whole time on and off and when he lays down to catch his breathe I praise him for that since he is calm and relaxed but then he starts back up again a few mins later. Although I have been using the leash and even when he whines and cries I make sure he doesn't move an he eventually does calm down so I guess it's progress 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## ladyb (Oct 11, 2013)

Lady assumes that when someone comes over that there is a surprise party in her honor! ?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Bequavious (Mar 9, 2013)

We've recently begun a desensitization program starting with light knocks and handle jiggles working to the recorded doorbell and then the actual doorbell (based on this video) 




Once the visitors are actually inside, there are two things that have worked well for us. One is asking the visitors to completely ignore the dogs and not even look at them. This calmed my dogs very quickly and I think could condition them to calmness if you have a number of willing practice visitors. For visitors whom we think are less likely to want to/be able to ignore the dogs, they get put in the back yard which gives everyone a chance to settle down. The dogs are brought back in when everything's calmed down and they behave beautifully


----------



## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I didn't see it asked, but will he hold a sit/down stay without distractions? Outside near activity? etc.. It is much easier to train WITH distractions once the dog is solid without. Work on a 'go to your bed' command without people, and do sit/stays outside on a long lead until he gets it. Then start conditioning with people coming over. Just my thoughts at least.


----------



## anushtharnari (Sep 15, 2012)

Shaina said:


> I didn't see it asked, but will he hold a sit/down stay without distractions? Outside near activity? etc.. It is much easier to train WITH distractions once the dog is solid without. Work on a 'go to your bed' command without people, and do sit/stays outside on a long lead until he gets it. Then start conditioning with people coming over. Just my thoughts at least.


We have done obedience training with him with Carlos Rojas in NJ. He breeds, trains, and competes with shepherds in schutzhund. He has learned a sit/down stay command with me standing next to him which I try and implement when people come over but he is way to excited and only listens to the command briefly. We are going to go back and further his training as soon as Rocco's sprained shoulder gets better. But as someone previously mentioned to keep him on the lead around the house until he is calm. I've been doing it and keeping him in the sit stay/down stay even if he cries and whines and its been working. He eventually lays down and cries every so often and he has even gotten to the point where he will move and lay down somewhere else but if our guest makes a slight move to go to the bathroom or something he gets excited again. I also feel that this excitement couldve been our fault because its our first dog ever and when people came over when he was a pup everyone would just want to play with him all the time and we let them instead of letting Rocco calm down first and now he associates people comin over with play all the time but its not cute puppy play anymore as he has gotten much bigger. That just what I think not sure if its true or not 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## anushtharnari (Sep 15, 2012)

Shaina said:


> I didn't see it asked, but will he hold a sit/down stay without distractions? Outside near activity? etc.. It is much easier to train WITH distractions once the dog is solid without. Work on a 'go to your bed' command without people, and do sit/stays outside on a long lead until he gets it. Then start conditioning with people coming over. Just my thoughts at least.


His trainer is carlos rojas from nj. he breeds, trains, and competes with shepherds in schutzhund. He knows a easy command which is a sit/down command with me standing next to him. The command is supposed to be according to his trainer that when the command is said the dog can either sit or lay down but he has to be heeling and he can't move until a OK command is given to release him. He is great with that command with no distractions although he doesn't focus on me. Under distractions he will do the command but cry and whine at the top of his lungs while sitting or laying. But when guest come over I have been using a leash and telling him to sit/easy and he cries for a little while then stops and chills out which is when I praise and reward but he will try and leave without being released with the OK. That's when I do it again and lately he has gotten better where he will eventually go and relax and hangout so it's progress 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## anushtharnari (Sep 15, 2012)

Shaina said:


> I didn't see it asked, but will he hold a sit/down stay without distractions? Outside near activity? etc.. It is much easier to train WITH distractions once the dog is solid without. Work on a 'go to your bed' command without people, and do sit/stays outside on a long lead until he gets it. Then start conditioning with people coming over. Just my thoughts at least.


He knows a easy command which is a sit/down while he is heeling and he or I can't move until I give an OK command to release him. He is great with the command on a lead without distractions but with distractions he is all over crying whining while given the easy command. But when guests come over I've been putting him on a 3 ft lead and telling him to sit or lay down until he is calm then I say ok to release him and he will go and start chasing his tail or something then I do it all over and lately he has been staying calm and laying after a few corrections so its progress 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I do not think a sit or down stay w/ release is a good idea for this sort of situation. You're building up his anxiety and releasing him to release it and start all over again. 

Crate him until guests are inside. You've all sat down and are relaxing. Wait until he is calm for more than a minute in his crate before letting him out (ON A LEASH) and take him out and ask for behaviors. If he can't function, you need to go back to basics and build his attention on you and proofing sits/touches/downs in distracting environments with fewer people next time. 

Work him into the room that your friends are in with 100% of his attention on you. Ask for easy things and reward them over and over. Touch, sit, touch, down, etc. Do Look at that training once he is in the room and working for you- each time he glances at a friend, mark and treat.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Teach a behavior with positive reinforcement maybe negative reinforcement depending on the dog.

Layer negative reinforcement over that to further strengthen the behavior and help the behavior itself be rewarding to the dog (to escape pressure)

Make sure the behavior is well generalized

Then punish non compliance while still rewarding compliance on varying schedules of reinforcement till randomized.

If you want the behavior strong and solid even with distraction you gotta hit your quadrants not just 1 or 2


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Baillif said:


> If you want the behavior strong and solid even with distraction you gotta hit your quadrants not just 1 or 2


If by this you mean you have to use negative reinforcement or punishment, that is not accurate at all. I can train PLENTY of commands solidly in a very stimulating/distracting environment without negative reinforcement or punishment. I can train THIS behavior force-free.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

With some dogs yeah and with some distractions sure. By punishment and negative reinforcement i dont mean blasting a dog either btw. Just for clarification.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Baillif said:


> With some dogs yeah and with some distractions sure.


No, I don't think there's a single dog without strong behavioral issues (fear of children, etc) that can't learn simple "ignore that person, work for me instead" in crowds of dogs, people, etc. force free and positively. It is not hard, whatsoever, if you put in the time to build the foundations for attention properly. 

I think that's a cop-out to be lazy and use methods that YOU want. Not because they're necessary.


----------



## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

It would be wrong to start any training without knowing what is going on in your dog's head. By the way you described it - he is playing. It is all but a game and excitement for him, and he barks, jumps, chases his tail - only *to impress* your guests!
Dogs like to impress. For instance, some like to frighten people in the street only to impress them, this behaviour shouldn't be interpreted as agressive. Some dogs like to be petted by strangers in your house, and they would dance on their heads if the guests try to refuse granting their attention.
Your dog is thursty for attention and he got used to gulp it in huge portions - I'm absolutely sure about it. If you ignored him with the very first signs of such behaviour, then he would have stopped it by now. But you had turned away from guests every time, you started to feed your doggy-psycho-vampire with your psycho-energy every time he went bonkers.
The way to teach him out of this - is to behave in the most relaxed manner and *avoid looking at him*. It will be frustrating for him, he might go nuts and even turn agressive, barking right in your guests' faces - *IGNORE*, like he is not there. Some things can definitely help you:
1. Exrcise him hard in the morning and keep him hungry until the hour your guests expected. Fill his bowl with his favourite food to the top and feed right before your guests arrive, you need to *stuff his belly* really well. Heavy stomach suppresses emotions.
2. Use pacifying *aromatherapy for dogs*. Many essentual oils help to calm dogs in much worse situations, also ask your guests to rub some on their wrists.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Think that if you want but people who compete at the highest levels of dogsports especially in protection sports use aversives of some form of another for a reason. 

Just out of curiosity how many dogs have you trained?


----------



## Bequavious (Mar 9, 2013)

David Winners said:


> Basically like the video below. I freeshape it instead of lure, but either works just fine.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doZO6PiRpOo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> ...


Do your dogs have to lay down on the bed when you send them, or do they just have to have their feet on it? We're working on a down in a certain spot at the doorbell, but I'm not sure if I'm trying to do too much at once and need to break it down more first?


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Baillif said:


> Think that if you want but people who compete at the highest levels of dogsports especially in protection sports use aversives of some form of another for a reason.
> 
> Just out of curiosity how many dogs have you trained?


I will think that because I teach that and that works for me. We are not talking about dog sports of any variety here - many of which I compete in with no use of aversives. 

We're talking about a dog ignoring guests and working for it's owner instead, which does not need any sort of force involved unless you're cheap/lazy. And for the record, I have nothing against aversives at all, I just think they are over-recommended and used because it's easier for people like you to offer up. I have a prong collar for each of my dogs and I've used shock collars before as well.

How many dogs have I trained? That's a very vague question - I'm sure between training, working in shelters, volunteering and dog sitting, I've taught at least one command or behavior to at least 300-500 dogs in the few years I've been very active in the dog world. 



Bequavious said:


> Do your dogs have to lay down on the bed when you send them, or do they just have to have their feet on it? We're working on a down in a certain spot at the doorbell, but I'm not sure if I'm trying to do too much at once and need to break it down more first?


My requirement is that they lay down when I send them there and don't get up until I release them. When I start it, I lure them onto the bed, ask for a down. Lure them, wait out to see if they offer a down (most do). Motion and wait for down, mark and treat. Motion with verbal and wait for the down, mark and treat. I name it once they're reliably going to the bed with my hand motion from a foot or so away and downing regularly. If they were to go and not down, I would ask for the down and then mark/treat.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Thats an equally vague answer but it told me all i need to know.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Baillif said:


> Thats an equally vague answer but it told me all i need to know.


Is that your way to cop-out of being told that you're wrong, because aversives are not necessary to train a dog to pay attention to you inside and not jump on house guests? 

I think your vague question told me all I needed to know.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

If you want solid bomb proof behaviors out of most dogs at some point youre going to need to use aversives or go to some other extreme to get the behavior you want if you go all +R and -p. Some dogs can be taken a **** of a long way without it. Many cant. You can call me lazy or whatever but youre unbalanced as a trainer and if you bother really going out to train dogs under real distractions where you dont control all the variables you will meet your match.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Baillif said:


> If you want solid bomb proof behaviors out of most dogs at some point youre going to need to use aversives or go to some other extreme to get the behavior you want if you go all +R and -p. Some dogs can be taken a **** of a long way without it. Many cant. You can call me lazy or whatever but youre unbalanced as a trainer and if you bother really going out to train dogs under real distractions where you dont control all the variables you will meet your match.


You mean like at a trial site, camping ground, dog festival, hockey game, pet stores, nature preserve w/ lake and animals, dog park, public field with other dogs, etc? 

I train around variables that I cannot control with tons of distractions every day. I haven't met my match yet and I can't see how I'm an unbalanced trainer? I'd love you to elaborate on that and how this has anything to do with using aversives to teach a house dog to leave guests alone?


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I wasnt just talking about how to get a dog to ignore house guests thats the general formula to teaching most any behavior you want with high reliability not just one.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Baillif said:


> I wasnt just talking about how to get a dog to ignore house guests thats the general formula to teaching most any behavior you want with high reliability not just one.


But that is not what the question was, and that's not true... Positive reinforcement gets the same results if you're willing to put in the time.

I reliably train a lot of things to trial my dogs and take them places to use as demo dogs, etc. and I don't use aversives for 9/10 behaviors they have to know reliably.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Positive reinforcement works great until you run into a distracting competing motivator the dog cares about more. If you have a dog that cares about food or a tug more than anything else in the world then yes positive reinforcement and the negative punishment from withholding of it for non compliance works fine. The problem is when the dog isnt very food or toy motivated or there is a distraction the dog cares about more than your motivator and this is reality for most dogs out there. You could argue using the distraction itself as a motivator but this is only possible if you can sometimes let the dog access it. If your dog wants to kill cats more than anything else in the world the toy or tug wont stop him. You cant let him access the cat (or shouldnt) so what now?

What exactly is your definition of reliability anyway? If you cant safely walk a dog through a city with busy streets and have him heel off leash without e collar or prong or any means of control other than training then we aren't talking about the same level of reliability.


----------



## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Positive reinforcement


Dogs really must think humans are the strangest creatures on earth. I use +R only myself, but, can you imagine training your dog when your guests expect something else to happen? Unless, of course, they came just for you to train your dog and them to be used as a distraction. They well might feel themselves idiotic, while you are running backwards and forwards every time your dog gets up from your bed. Not very practical idea in this particular situation. IMHO, sometimes a complete inaction could be better than any training method.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Great you two can start a club.


----------



## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> you two can start a club


I'm just waiting for a good electric + charge by watching Canadians play. Do you like hockey, DJEtzel? Women play it too.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Bequavious said:


> Do your dogs have to lay down on the bed when you send them, or do they just have to have their feet on it? We're working on a down in a certain spot at the doorbell, but I'm not sure if I'm trying to do too much at once and need to break it down more first?


My dogs down and relax, because they know they may be there for a while.

If the dog is having trouble understanding, then you are moving too fast. I don't know what the dogs proficiency with the required behaviors is, how much freeshaping you have done, how good your timing is... just let the dog tell you when he's ready to move on. You want to build success at first and then proof later IMO.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I can't imagine an out of control guest happy GSD myself? My guy goes gladly to his bed and stays there when company comes over!

Now my BullMastiff/Pit and my Boxer, they were people crazy! I could control them but "not" my guest!


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Baillif said:


> Positive reinforcement works great until you run into a distracting competing motivator the dog cares about more. If you have a dog that cares about food or a tug more than anything else in the world then yes positive reinforcement and the negative punishment from withholding of it for non compliance works fine. The problem is when the dog isnt very food or toy motivated or there is a distraction the dog cares about more than your motivator and this is reality for most dogs out there. You could argue using the distraction itself as a motivator but this is only possible if you can sometimes let the dog access it. If your dog wants to kill cats more than anything else in the world the toy or tug wont stop him. You cant let him access the cat (or shouldnt) so what now?
> 
> What exactly is your definition of reliability anyway? If you cant safely walk a dog through a city with busy streets and have him heel off leash without e collar or prong or any means of control other than training then we aren't talking about the same level of reliability.


 Then you have to go back to square one and find something you can use to motivate a dog. I have never met a dog whom I couldn't find a motivator for. Eventually there is something, and sure, if you're working on cat reactivity/aggression, you can't start with the cat and something that doesn't motivate the dog. You have to use the motivator to build a strong focus on you, then add in the cat while the dog is still under threshold. If the dog is going nuts and won't work for your motivator, then you need to change motivators or add distance. It's not something that happens over night, but it happens a whole lot more positively than it does with those seeking quick results.

My definition of reliability is the dog being reliable under any situation I take them into with commands that I have proofed on the dog. When I was a student there were plenty of times that I walked my (then) 2 y/o GSD Frag off leash to and from Western Michigan University's campus and home on a thin sidewalk next to a busy street - with students walking around, dogs being biked, etc. etc. and we stopped to play fetch on Western's lawn. Without ever trying to greet anyone or wander. My border collie and I go to a *sometimes* busy nature preserve to hike off leash and he's recalled to heel position every time we see someone (dog or human) where he is down stayed until the dog or human passes, then we continue walking freely. We're talking about the same level of reliability, I just don't achieve mine with Prongs and shock collars. My dogs want to work for me because we've built a solid foundation of them getting what they want when they listen to me and they enjoy working for me because I make it fun and reward them often. Not because I pull them around by a prong collar. I tried that to teach Frag to walk on a loose leash originally and what ended up working was silky lead training and the clicker.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

David Taggart said:


> I'm just waiting for a good electric + charge by watching Canadians play. Do you like hockey, DJEtzel? Women play it too.


I've been a huge hockey fan since I was 5.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Alright well i got nothing more to say. Youre obviously a superior trainer and its only a matter of time before we see you at worlds in all the ringsports and ipo kicking the crap out of the lazy trainers like Ivan Balabanov or michael ellis or anybody else putting prong collars and ecollars on their dogs. You should hold a seminar or something.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Baillif said:


> Alright well i got nothing more to say. Youre obviously a superior trainer and its only a matter of time before we see you at worlds in all the ringsports and ipo kicking the crap out of the lazy trainers like Ivan Balabanov or michael ellis or anybody else putting prong collars and ecollars on their dogs. You should hold a seminar or something.


I'm not sure why you have an attitude. I told you that I use prong collars and shock collars and don't have a problem with them and understand that some sports need to use corrections to get desired results. 

But for real life, going out with your dog or teaching them manners inside the house like this, it just isn't necessary. I am a decent trainer because I am willing to adapt tools for the situation. If they situation were IPO and ringsport, I'd be using a prong. When the situation is a poorly trained dog who's excited about guests coming over, I'm not. There are better methods in this case to achieve the same results.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Are you serious?


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Baillif said:


> Are you serious?


Seriously arguing your method of training for every situation under the sun because I do not agree whatsoever? Yes. :crazy:


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Ok you guys, stop flirting and get back on topic. OP needs some help here. I suggest using hard corrections on the guests. If they can't use some self control and ignore the pup, then go after them! Escort them to the door and tell them not to come back until they understand that this is very important. 

OP, get your pup to settle at your side with a nice knuckle bone to work on. Tether your pup to the furniture if you have to, but make sure that he stays there quietly. If he's acting up, crate him for 10 minutes and start over again. He'll eventually decide that he'd rather be with you. This worked for me. But you can't uncrate him until he's quiet. And you have to recrate him when he isn't. Every single time, so he gets it.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Blanketback said:


> Ok you guys, stop flirting and get back on topic. OP needs some help here. I suggest using hard corrections on the guests. If they can't . use some self control and ignore the pup, then go after them! Escort them to the door and tell them not to come back until they understand that this is very important.


Yep, Never got my guest under control..dog people. And for two of my dogs people,were the bestest, most wonderful treat ever!!!!!!!!!!!!! 



Blanketback;5021994
OP said:


> Yep most likely what has to done... or live with it for the next 10 to 12 years?


----------

