# Dog Fight between my two GSD



## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

I was sitting in the living room watching my two GSD play - like they normally do. Then all of a sudden, it broke out into an all out dog fight. After about 2 minutes, I got them apart. I had one in a sit with my arms wrapped around her and stroking her chest - we do that to get her to settle. The other one was just walking around. After about a minute, I slowly got up and took them outside. They both just walked around and finally laid down. I looked them over and one has a bite out of her ear - nothing that needs attention. 

It has been almost 30 minutes since the fight. They both are laid out on the floor next to each other sleeping. 

Should I be concerned? What do I need to do now? Should I watch them all of the time when they are together? Should I keep one in the crate?

Any advice would help.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Lets start with age, sex, and how long you've had each dog.


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## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

Myla 5 years - female - all 5 years
Bella - 3 years - female - all 3 years
Never had ANY issues with them at all! Not even around food, treats, or toys


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Altered?

My KC and Tika got along GREAT for 5+ years, even when they were in heat. One day it escalated and they had to be separated. It was a pack issue and KC, even though she was younger, was the leader and took certain looks, movements by Tika to be a challenge. 

KC and Rayne spent every day of their lives together (sibling litter mates- unaltered) with NO issues. It comes down to the individual dogs but I would never allow them together unsupervised.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Well, two females with one just reaching full maturity (Bella) could be your issue. If it were me, I would...

1. Separate them whenever you cannot supervise their interaction completely. This means you watching them and their body language in order to stop an incident BEFORE it happens. Pay attention to posture, tail position, owning space - making the other dog change direction etc. and dominant posturing from either one. 

2. You now have a "pack" with behavioral issues. Maybe not major ones, but issues nonetheless. That means you have to amp up the leadership and obedience. NILF and being painfully consistent on what you do and do not allow is a must. It you have another incident (which does not mean a full out brawl since you are watching them closely - one of them getting ready to try and eat the other one is an incident) start conditioning them to muzzles so that you can work on them without the fear of bloodshed. 

3. Set them up for success by feeding them in secure locations so that they cannot get into something. Control treats, toys, bones etc. 100% so they do not cause a fight. Do not allow any bullying - or resource guarding (especially YOU). Assert yourself at all turns, and be alpha bitch at all costs. 

Good luck.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Bitches are sometimes just like that. It's hard because they CAN kill eachother. Trying to separate grown GSD bitches is not for the feint of heart. 

It is always good to ramp of leadership, always good to increase training, always good to increase excersize, frankly, I do not think that it will prevent it from happening a second or third time even. 

My Arwen is the best obedience dog, took first place on each title leg for her CD. Took her CGC without ever having practiced. Never had any incident with a dog outside my pack. Knows what I want her to do, and does it often with out any command. And she will KILL Jenna given the opportunity. 

Do not ever leave your girls alone together unsupervised. You may have a blood bath. Spaying may help if this was set off because one came into season or is coming into season -- eliminate seasons may work. However, the progesterone or estrogen is actually something that calms the bitch, so if you remove this you can actually heighten issues with your bitches, increase aggression. I would be VERY leery of spaying your bitches in this scenario unless you are absolutely sure it was related to one being in heat.

1 male, 1 female -- ideal.
2 males -- generally ok.
2 females -- can be ok.
2 males and 1 female -- not a good idea
1 male and 2 females -- bad, bad idea.

Sometimes having multiple dogs means management moreso than training and leadership. 

Good luck.


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## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

Thank you so much for your reply. I am slowly coming to ease with what happened. 

When you say sperate them, Bella has been crate trained. Myla is not. When I go back to work tomorrow, should I put Bella in her crate? Will that cause jeasouly issues? Do you think this will be an on going problem? 

Since this occured, Bella has position her mouth so that Myla can lick it. And Myla did. They have laid right by each other. And when my husband came home (I called him because I was so scared) they acted like normal.

Could this have been a "sister" little spat?

Thanks again!


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## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

They were both spayed very early.


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## amjrchamberlain (Mar 8, 2005)

Agree with what is being said here. Things change when you have 2 mature females. A puppy female and adult may well get along fine until the puppy matures. 

ZeusGSD's and Selzer's advice is sound, so I've nothing else to add, except that you might buy a couple of books/DVDs to learn more about canine body language. Even then, it only takes a split second for one girl to be challenging to the other and to cause a problem. 

Best Wishes.


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## amjrchamberlain (Mar 8, 2005)

If Myla is not crate trained, now might be the time to start. Personally, I would crate both girls if you are away from home. I crate & rotate the girls here. 

My Willow used to try to kill my Katie. Katie got spayed and they get along now. However, Bella (my puppy bitch) wants to challenge both of the girls and neither of them will have it. It can turn bloody quick. Getting caught between them once was enough for me to keep them separated at all times. It's a pain, I agree, but it has to be done when you've more than one female. 

It may be a little spat now, but it can easily turn for the worse.


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## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

It may be a little spat now, but it can easily turn for the worse. 

That is what I am worried about and want to prevent from happening. How should I be acting now? Like nothing has happend? Should I be watching them like hawks now? I was going to take them from our normal daily run - should I?


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## mastercabman (Jun 11, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> 
> 1 male, 1 female -- ideal.
> 2 males -- generally ok.
> ...


AGREE!!!
I have 1male.1 female,for the most part they do just fine.
Annie loves Oliver and i can not seperate them.Oliver is more lay back and usually ignores her.But i have seen them 2 go at it,just for a moment but they never really hurt each other.Sometime Oliver would have her lock down(grabbing her by the neck)but he always lets her go after she cries.
Keep in mind that he is a 100lbs vs 72lbs.

But 2 females? You are asking for WW3


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## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

How you described Oliver locking Annie and letting her go, that is how they normally cry but hardly ever a cry from either is let out. So this was something toally new to me.

In my eyes, I got saw WW3


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## clfike (Mar 20, 2009)

Wow, I guess I've been very lucky. I had 1 male and 2 females for years. My male passed away and we now have another one. That combo seems to work good for us. I've never had any incidents with them. I guess that could always change, but I've never seen any indication. They were all altered early so maybe that made a difference. My 2 females have always absolutely loved each other from day one, but one is the definite alpha in the house and the other respects that completely.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I am perhaps a been more open about things like the fight taking place.

You said the following and I agree. "Could this have been a "sister" little spat?"

Absolutely, and every now and then it happens. I did not see the aggression, but in a so-called "real" fight at least one of the dogs will not let go, and that is clearly a problem. In your case a sister-sister fight.


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## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

Thank you Timber1. I am still a little cautious but all seems to be like normal. I think the fight worn them out because they have been sleepy ever since. They roamed the backyard together and Bella initated play with Myla. Even though the play didn't last long, it was nice to see.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Do you separate them when you aren't home, or can't supervise their play? If you haven't prior to this incident, are you planning on separating them now when you can't supervise?
The reason why I ask is that my experience with two females fighting is that they really don't "get over it". They might engage in detente, but will continue to fight once they have regrouped. The truce can last from 2 minutes to 2 years. There is no set time period that you can count on.
If you aren't separating them now when you can't supervise, I would encourage you to. That way you will never come home to a dead or seriously injured dog.
I know it is very tempting to see them play together now and think that they have settled whatever it was. Resist that temptation!
Good luck!
Sheilah


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## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

sit,stay - Yes, we seperated them today when we went to work. I do have to admit that Bella doesn't seem as playful with Myla as she has been in the past. For example, when I normally let her out of her crate, she is VERY energenic and runs right over to Myla. Today, just walked out with her bone and walked past Myla. It's like they say HI to each other and then that is it. 

The tranier that we have worked with in the past offers an advanced class every Wednesday and I can take both dogs and work with them together. So we are starting tomorrow!

One of our friends that we love and trust and who is very good with dogs mentioned something about maybe Bella was taking a shot at the title belt. Either challenging Myla or something like that. When i walked them this morning side by side, all seemed fine as well.

Maybe it was me or something that Ihaven't done in before. 

Thanks to all that have posted.... any suggestions, are a help!


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## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

How do I know when Bella reaches maturity? Or did I just go through it?


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## dogsnkiddos (Jul 22, 2008)

We had three females and a male that seemed to live happily... about 3.5 years after the final girl joined the pack we had a horrible fight... absolutely unprovoked. The victim was attacked through the house, and tried only to get away (I have blood stains on tings to this day!) but the attaacking bitch was RUTHLESS. My husband crated the two not involved and I went into the fray. Each time I got them apart and tried to drag attacker to the door she would go for the victim again. It felt like it would never end. I go her out in the yard and took vicitm to the car. Attacker tried to come over the fence to finish the kill. My husband took attacker in other car (so much blood I didn't know WHO was hurt). we called ahead to the ER vet.

In the end I thought they would never live together again. I kept the attacker muzzled, and the girls separated. We consulted a behaviorist and talked with our trainer. We oredred a thick book on aggression from dogwise (beige with red lettering- excellant book, forget the name, and have since passed it on). I felt liek while there was a truce that EVERYTHING had changed and we would NEVER be able to trust again- and so we lived that way. 

When we were at the ER and subsequently at the vet we had full workups done to make sure neither dog had an underlying medical condition. Everything came back clean. However a few months later, the attacking dog collapsed in the yard while out for her morning pee, and despite my immediately rushing her to the vet died a few hours later. I have since always suspected something medical was missed that caused the initial fight. 

I share it to suggest that perhaps a routine physical or the like is in order. Maybe someone is a bit off....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would be a little leery of walking them together, unless you have two people. And as for tidbits like bones and such, they should be for their private areas, like their crate or kennel. 

Maybe I am being paranoid, but if you are a quarter of a mile away from home and your one bitch sidles into your other bitch, and WWIII happens. You have two leashes in your hands and NOTHING to stop them with. Can you walk home with both girls straining against their collars trying to get at the other? 

I like to walk my girls separately. It is my special alone time with them.


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## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

dogsnkiddos - thank you for your replay.... thankfully, I didn't have to make a trip to the vet but Bella - the one I think started it all - is due for her yearly check-up in July. And this will be on the top of my list.

selzer - thank you for your reply as well. All of these suggestions I have in the back of my head/mind. I decided to do a little training with each of them seperately before I took them on a comined walk this afternoon. I took Myla first - the older one - to show Bella that she must wait her turn. Then took Bella and then both on a combined walk. It was good. I start tomorrow in advanced training class using the same trainer as before. And this issue will come up first thing tomorrow!


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## amjrchamberlain (Mar 8, 2005)

How did the training session go? 

RE: Maturity - there are different levels - physical, sexual, mental. In general, the bitch-bitch issues tend to happen around sexual maturity for the younger bitch. It coincides closely to their adolescence/first heat cycle. And it can continue on through their lifetime. Atleast, that has been my experience.


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## MylaBella (May 10, 2007)

Of course they were both rock stars at training! But they did great for the first day back. So far, all is normal again with them. Still watch them when they play, etc. We all are looking forward to traning every wednesday. I know it wore me out on Thursday and they both were knocked out too!


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## Dee Phillips (Nov 29, 2008)

2 adult bitches together,the question is not if but when. Your story is the norm, and after the first fight I wood keep them apart, as females will fight to the death and it is unlikley you will be able to stop a second fight as they mean business and you could get hurt trying to stop them. Better safe than sorry. Best


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: selzer1 male, 1 female -- ideal.
> 2 males -- generally ok.
> 2 females -- can be ok.
> 2 males and 1 female -- not a good idea
> 1 male and 2 females -- bad, bad idea.


Considering how many people have multiple dog households and of course we must consider the individual dog's temperaments ... it seems to me that same-pack fighting would have to be a rare thing. Yes? No?

Why would so many people have multiple dogs if their dogs were seriously injuring or killing one another on a regular basis?

Do the above equations change if all dogs are fixed, say the female at 6mos and the male by a year?

The ones that throw me off are the two bottom ones listed, in my thinking the ratios seem backwards.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

My best friend had a male/female combo that got a long for YEARS together. One day they just went off and were in a knock down drag out fight. I wasn't there so I do not know what happened. Ohhh they were BOTH altered before they ever met each other. 

There are a lot of people with packs on here and often times there is a whole lot of a game called the K9 Shuffle going in between house, yard, kennel and crate time. 

So no the above list is not 100% absolute.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have a male and 3 females right now....any of the females can be with the male, and my mother - daughter combo can be together, even in heat. 

I previously had a different mother-daughter combo who had a fight when both were in/near heat - repeated almost a year later in same cycle. Mom is retired and in a great great home wtih friends and daughter is not with other females socially. I am going to raise another female with her mother and the other two females with very very supervised interaction. If there is any hint of aggression or danger - crate time.

I do NOT and would not allow wrestling play between the females...they can each have a toy and run together, but NO wrestling in house. They are crated when I am not supervising. I reprimand ANY posturing or body language that indicates dominance. 

I think you have to micro manage and be vigilant to subtle cues. The mouth licking is submission, acknowledgement of the older dogs' superior ranking. It is very telling that you noticed this AFTER the altercation - it means that the younger one was aware of her transgression and now re-acknowledging the older ones
higher rank. 

Many people have multiple dogs - so they have to have more than one of the same sex. Strong leadership on the part of the owner and awareness of dog to dog body language is the key to peace.

Good luck

Lee


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree that my list was not 100%. Yes taking the breeding possibilities out of the equation might make a difference. If you want multiple dog living in the same house, all running together, it is best to have excellent leadership first. Then having several years between dogs of opposite sexes makes
things a lot easier, like having a 12 year old bitch, an eight year old dog, then a four year old bitch, etc. 

When you have young bitches and young dogs, the balance of power is such that rivalries are likely to occur. 

I let the babies run around together. They are ten months old. While I have bitches that dislike one another, and others that seem pretty well tolerant, I do not let any of them run together without supervision and even then, I am careful about where and next to whom everyone is kenneled.


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