# Difference between Malinois and Dutch Shepherd



## Esther

I can't decide between a Belgian shepherd malinois and a dutch shepherd. Whats the difference between the two regarding temperament, size, look and trainability?

I'm looking to have a companion/protection dog since I'm alone a lot.

Thanks


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## Brightelf

Welcome to the board!














To be perfectly honest, if you are asking differences-- you possibly *may* not want to get one just yet. You may wish to research, meet dogs, etc a bit more before settling. These are not only not dogs for a beginner.. they are not even dogs for experienced "pet folks". Here's why:

The most extreme Mals and Dutchies are insanely hyperactive, attention span of a gnat, nervous-nervous-nervous, bite because something moved/breathed/hiccuped, can't sit still, fall apart during traumatic events such as thunderstorms and you using the blender in the kitchen, bite the meter reader/your fave guest/ the vet/ Aunt Edna because they zigged when the dog thought they should have zagged, and have very obvious nervous breakdowns when an owner tries to do something foreign to these dogs, like, relax.

Less extreme Mals and Dutchies do exist. They are wonderful dogs for people who have a gargantuan amount of involvement with their dogs and a very suportive dogsport club to provide outlets and assistance with such bright but challenging breeds. Still-- not a dog for a casual pet owner, even one curious about dogsports.. this is a dog to research, meet, and meet again and again.. learn how people live with them.. and then make your choice if this is for you. Best bet if a beginner to these breeds is determined: Breed rescue, perhaps a middle aged adult to selected to fit your activity level, lifestyle, level of expertise. 

The differences between these breeds are small. The Dutchie has brindled stripes, the Mal has a fawn coat usually, with a black facial mask. Both are, in theory, equally trainable-- provided you find a dogsport club with experience. Pet type trainers will not know how to handle these super-intelligent, oftentimes insanely driven, dogs who are now bred mainly for sport and all the exaggeration of temperament, drives, impulse control (or lack thereof) that creates the spectacular flash-and-dash on the field.

Again, for your very first Dutchie or Mal, yu may wish to go through breed rescue and find a middle-aged adult. Or, throw caution to the wind-- find a puppy, and get a whopping huge amount of support from a dogsport club.. or two. Regardless, these are breeds needing research done in person, meeting the dogs often on a regular basis... not just a visit to a breeder's.

Good luck! These are smart dogs, and very beautiful. The most mellow of them are still more high octane than one might expect.


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## Esther

Thanks for all the info. It really helped. With all that said how are gsd? Are they as high maintenance as Mal and dutchies?

I'm self employed and I will be taking my new baby everywhere I go that allows a dog. He will be with me everyday at work.


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## BlackPuppy

I have a GSD/Dutchie mix and a Malinois. These two both are a handful. I never had a pure GSD, but there's a saying. 

"A Malinois is a GSD on speed." 

Seriously, I almost thought I'd have to send my Malinois back, but after a year we finally worked things out. LOL!

Hope that helps!


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## JasperLoki

> Originally Posted By: OtisThanks for all the info. It really helped. With all that said how are gsd? Are they as high maintenance as Mal and dutchies?
> 
> I'm self employed and I will be taking my new baby everywhere I go that allows a dog. He will be with me everyday at work.


No dog is high maintenance, the question comes down to you having the time and total commitment to raise, train and maintain a healthy and sound (in the mind) dog ?

Besides taking to just work, training, and maybe a sport would be great









Also, spend as much time as possible on this forum, research every thread topic that will help guide you, and you will be fine.

Also, I suggest this book, it's not breed specific, but it will help you raise a great dog (regardless of what you have raised in the past).

http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB790

After you find books you like on that sight, then go to Amazon, they are usually cheaper, but with dogwise, you can find all sorts of good authors, and will help you in the direction you are heading.

BTW, A light switch goes on







at about 12 months of age, so be prepared. Along with many other changes along the way, and through the first years of their lives, up until their adults









They are a life long commitment









So you are at the right place,









P.S. Also think about someone amped up on Red Bull, and somone not, that is kind of a difference


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## Eranez

No way are Malinois High maintenance, hyper, etc.
My grandparents had a Purebred when my mother and her siblings were 10-18, he would follow them whenever they went in the backyard to play, never had to be put on a leash, never chewed anything up or had any "breakdowns", friendly with strangers. Although he did hate black people. I mean literally, he would see one and go insane, snarling, snapping, barking, howling when we let him chase them down. He was the most racist animal i've ever met. 
But he was such a good guarddog, they never needed a door bell. As soon as someone set foot on the property he would bark, slowly and lowly at first, then louder if they came closer. Although he would shutup if you told him to hush.
Anyways, i only knew him for a few years before he had to get put down (was 18, eyesight almost gone, hips horrible, just incredibly old, it was his time) but he would follow me around the same way he did my mother. He had a odd foot fedish though, if you would sit down to read/use the computer/watch tv, he would lay at your feet and lick them for hours.

I'm aware a lot of this is babbling, but i can't stress enough how opposite this dog was of what i see said above.
And yes, i'm positive he was a malinois, purebred, they had him DNA tested.


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## LaRen616

Eranez said:


> No way are Malinois High maintenance, hyper, etc.
> My grandparents had a Purebred when my mother and her siblings were 10-18, he would follow them whenever they went in the backyard to play, never had to be put on a leash, never chewed anything up or had any "breakdowns", friendly with strangers. *Although he did hate black people. I mean literally, he would see one and go insane, snarling, snapping, barking, howling when we let him chase them down.* *He was the most racist animal i've ever met. *
> But he was such a good guarddog, they never needed a door bell. As soon as someone set foot on the property he would bark, slowly and lowly at first, then louder if they came closer. Although he would shutup if you told him to hush.
> Anyways, i only knew him for a few years before he had to get put down (was 18, eyesight almost gone, hips horrible, just incredibly old, it was his time) but he would follow me around the same way he did my mother. He had a odd foot fedish though, if you would sit down to read/use the computer/watch tv, he would lay at your feet and lick them for hours.
> 
> I'm aware a lot of this is babbling, but i can't stress enough how opposite this dog was of what i see said above.
> And yes, i'm positive he was a malinois, purebred, they had him DNA tested.


 
I'm disgusted :nono:


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## LaRen616

I have heard from several people that have owned both GSD's and Malinois and they all say that their Mal has alot more drive and energy than their GSD. 

I could never get a Malinois, they scare the  out of me! :lurking:


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## elisabeth_00117

We have a few Mals at our club and I have to say, they are insane!

They are very high energy, have extreme focus on their handler, as someone else said, their threshold is very short (fall apart from the simpliest of things - rain, correction from handler, etc.).

I think they can be a good dog for some people... BUT... you better understand, know and have researched that breed before hand.


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## elisabeth_00117

Originally Posted by *Eranez*  
_No way are Malinois High maintenance, hyper, etc.
My grandparents had a Purebred when my mother and her siblings were 10-18, he would follow them whenever they went in the backyard to play, never had to be put on a leash, never chewed anything up or had any "breakdowns", friendly with strangers. *Although he did hate black people. I mean literally, he would see one and go insane, snarling, snapping, barking, howling when we let him chase them down.* *He was the most racist animal i've ever met. *
But he was such a good guarddog, they never needed a door bell. As soon as someone set foot on the property he would bark, slowly and lowly at first, then louder if they came closer. Although he would shutup if you told him to hush.
Anyways, i only knew him for a few years before he had to get put down (was 18, eyesight almost gone, hips horrible, just incredibly old, it was his time) but he would follow me around the same way he did my mother. He had a odd foot fedish though, if you would sit down to read/use the computer/watch tv, he would lay at your feet and lick them for hours.

I'm aware a lot of this is babbling, but i can't stress enough how opposite this dog was of what i see said above.
And yes, i'm positive he was a malinois, purebred, they had him DNA tested._





Wow.. I am speechless.. I agree I am totally disgusted by the post. 

You should be ashamed of yourself!


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## gsdraven

Eranez said:


> No way are Malinois High maintenance, hyper, etc.
> My grandparents had a Purebred when my mother and her siblings were 10-18, he would follow them whenever they went in the backyard to play, never had to be put on a leash, never chewed anything up or had any "breakdowns", friendly with strangers. Although he did hate black people. I mean literally, he would see one and go insane, snarling, snapping, barking, howling when we let him chase them down. He was the most racist animal i've ever met.
> But he was such a good guarddog, they never needed a door bell. As soon as someone set foot on the property he would bark, slowly and lowly at first, then louder if they came closer. Although he would shutup if you told him to hush.
> Anyways, i only knew him for a few years before he had to get put down (was 18, eyesight almost gone, hips horrible, just incredibly old, it was his time) but he would follow me around the same way he did my mother. He had a odd foot fedish though, if you would sit down to read/use the computer/watch tv, he would lay at your feet and lick them for hours.
> 
> I'm aware a lot of this is babbling, but i can't stress enough how opposite this dog was of what i see said above.
> And yes, i'm positive he was a malinois, purebred, they had him DNA tested.


How many other Malinois have you known? There is an exception to every rule. Not trying to be argumentative but it seems you knew that dog as a senior when he had calmed down.

The people offering advice have lots of experience and know what they are talking about. Could you find a mellow Mal? Probably, but the majority of them are a lot of work.


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## ruger

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Originally Posted by *Eranez*
> _No way are Malinois High maintenance, hyper, etc.
> My grandparents had a Purebred when my mother and her siblings were 10-18, he would follow them whenever they went in the backyard to play, never had to be put on a leash, never chewed anything up or had any "breakdowns", friendly with strangers. *Although he did hate black people. I mean literally, he would see one and go insane, snarling, snapping, barking, howling when we let him chase them down.* *He was the most racist animal i've ever met. *
> But he was such a good guarddog, they never needed a door bell. As soon as someone set foot on the property he would bark, slowly and lowly at first, then louder if they came closer. Although he would shutup if you told him to hush.
> Anyways, i only knew him for a few years before he had to get put down (was 18, eyesight almost gone, hips horrible, just incredibly old, it was his time) but he would follow me around the same way he did my mother. He had a odd foot fedish though, if you would sit down to read/use the computer/watch tv, he would lay at your feet and lick them for hours.
> 
> I'm aware a lot of this is babbling, but i can't stress enough how opposite this dog was of what i see said above.
> And yes, i'm positive he was a malinois, purebred, they had him DNA tested._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.. I am speechless.. I agree I am totally disgusted by the post.
> 
> You should be ashamed of yourself!


looks like a troll to me especially since this thread was 2 year old before that post.


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## GSDAlphaMom

_i only knew him for a few years before he had to get put down (was 18, eyesight almost gone, hips horrible, just incredibly old_

No dog is going to be insanely hyper at 18 yrs (you stated you only knew him his last few years). As for your other comment, I won't dignify acknowledging it.


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## codmaster

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Originally Posted by *Eranez*
> _No way are Malinois High maintenance, hyper, etc._
> _My grandparents had a Purebred when my mother and her siblings were 10-18, he would follow them whenever they went in the backyard to play, never had to be put on a leash, never chewed anything up or had any "breakdowns", friendly with strangers. *Although he did hate black people. I mean literally, he would see one and go insane, snarling, snapping, barking, howling when we let him chase them down.* *He was the most racist animal i've ever met. *_
> _But he was such a good guarddog, they never needed a door bell. As soon as someone set foot on the property he would bark, slowly and lowly at first, then louder if they came closer. Although he would shutup if you told him to hush._
> _Anyways, i only knew him for a few years before he had to get put down (was 18, eyesight almost gone, hips horrible, just incredibly old, it was his time) but he would follow me around the same way he did my mother. He had a odd foot fedish though, if you would sit down to read/use the computer/watch tv, he would lay at your feet and lick them for hours._
> 
> _I'm aware a lot of this is babbling, but i can't stress enough how opposite this dog was of what i see said above._
> _And yes, i'm positive he was a malinois, purebred, they had him DNA tested._
> 
> Wow.. I am speechless.. I agree I am totally disgusted by the post.
> 
> You should be ashamed of yourself!


Why should anyone be ashamed? All she was doing is reporting what occured and what the dog was like.

My grandmother in law was a southern Georgia resident with a big GSD a long time ago and that dog also did not like black folks and would bark like crazy whenerver one came by the house - he had been raised to bark at them.


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## Catu

codmaster said:


> Why should anyone be ashamed? All she was doing is reporting what occured and what the dog was like.
> 
> My grandmother in law was a southern Georgia resident with a big GSD a long time ago and that dog also did not like black folks and would bark like crazy whenerver one came by the house - he had been raised to bark at them.


And she did let her GSD chase them down too?


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## elisabeth_00117

Catu said:


> And she did let her GSD chase them down too?


That was exactly my point.

It sounded like the person was happy that her dog did this to people, she allowed it to happen.


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## BlackPuppy

My Doerak (black dog) was afraid of black people. He was just never socialized. 

Since this thread started 2 years ago, I've seen many more examples of Malinois and Dutch Shepherds. When I got a Dutch Shepherd, I went to Europe and found a family dog. He's is a sweetie, loves to kiss. Just lays around eating his bone until he gets zoomies. 

*As far as the temperament of Malinois and Dutch Shepherds, it all depends on who you get the dog from and what the parents are like and what lines they are bred from.*

The UKC Belgian Shepherd National is near Ann Arbor this October. Nice place to get up close and personal with all the Belgians. 

http://www.ubsda.com/


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## codmaster

Catu said:


> And she did let her GSD chase them down too?


Not usually - that was against the law.


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## keark

If someone does not know their dog as well or cannot read their dog, they might make assumptions to something like racism when it is actually just fear. Or their dog might have barked at white people as well and just not noticed it as much. I had a college friend tell me that his shepherd growing up didn't like black people. He also grew up in a very well to do burb of Chicago where there were not many black people. He is by no means racist. He just made an observation of his dog's reaction. There could be many factors as to why he thought that but I never took it as him being racist. 
I know my gsd doesn't like new people. I never really stop and look at their background. I do know that if I am nervous about being in a new placen or meeting new people, my dog can sense it and he is on alert. Just my thoughts.


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## Gretchen

We looked into the Malinois before getting our GSD. What attracted us at first was that it seemed they did not have some of the health issues that GSDs are known for. But once we learned about the high drive and energy, decided against. I see more and more law enforcement using the Malinois now. They are usually tan with black mask.

Our breeder also breeds the Dutch shepherds. They are somewhat smaller than a regular GSD, shorter coat like the Malinois, and brindle like in coloring. I;ve only met a few, but they were very nice, socialized but still higher energy. One young man I met jogs about 5 miles with his dog before he goes to work for the day.

If I had my choice between the two, I'd choose the Dutch Shepherd.


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## kimruger

I have a dutch malinois. she is wonderful. I bought her from a k-9 unit at 4 months old. Her papers are in German. She did not get along well with other dogs, at that time. I never had any problems with her. I couldn't ask for a better companion. She is 5 yrs. old I have a cat and several reptiles. The puppy I have will eat out of the same bowl. I can leave her in the car, house at my dads. She does not destroy anything. She does not play with toys. When I trained her she did not want treats as a reward just to be petted. She is very healthy never been sick. The best dog I ever owned.


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## London25

I have a belguim malinios x dutch shepard. he has a high prey drive! Great gaurding dogs but i dont find him to be affectionate but he's 7 months maybe as he gets older. these dogs need a job or should go to doggy daycare! These breeds are used in the forces for a reason!! ... they are the mclaren F1 of the agility. My boy would rather play and run all day than eat. I dont recommend these dogs if you are in the city or have no clue about training as they can be dominant. Malinious come out their mothers biting they are nick named the snapping allegators!! My dog snaps his teeth together all the time. They are not food driven either. I take my dog to doggie daycare everyday to socialize and run! I find that he cannot go with any passive dogs. He has to be with dogs that will put himj in his place as his version of play is to nip until they run and he can chase them, even as a puppy he does this.


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## Pepper311

Sorry I think you might be asking the wrong people here. GSD are on the GSD Team 100% most of the time. It's like asking what Baseball team you should like Yankees or Red Sox. 

I want a Mal So badly did lots of research. I got a GSD/MIX in the end. I still want a Mal . I have talked to breeders and a lady that has one for SAR. They are amazing dogs will not stop insane is a mean word to use. They are Intense . They don't always think before they leap. They are not a dog for the lazy dog owner. I don't know much about the Dutch shepherd I read they are more like a GSD than the Mal is. 

The belgian tervuren could be the perfect middle.


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## Baillif

I think mine are broken


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## carmspack

quote "My grandparents had a Purebred when my mother and her siblings were 10-18"
later in post "
And yes, i'm positive he was a malinois, purebred, they had him DNA tested"

these two statements are cause to question the truth of the post -- how old are you? If this happened when your mother and her siblings were aged 10 to 18 , that is an era when DNA testing , which is relatively recent , was not an available option, and , why would your grandparents see reason to test for DNA breed verification??


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## Blitzkrieg1

Baillif said:


> I think mine are broken


 
Mine too he wont destroy the house, whine or chase small animals. Can't figure it out..


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## wolfy dog

Baillif said:


> I think mine are broken


Can you please tell us what their day was like in order to be so relaxed? That will illustrate what's needed for a picture like this. Great picture by the way.
Or were they on Benedryl ?

I raised a Mal but never again as a pet.


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## Baillif

Doesn't matter what their day was like.

They are conditioned to relax in the house. I don't allow them to play in the house or do anything high intensity in the house outside of something that has a cue to start and finish.

When we go outside or in the training room they go nuts. When they are in working mode they are wired. In the house or crate it is chill time.

People always go assuming a tired dog is a good dog. No. A tired dog is a tired dog. If you went to a maximum security prison and saw a serial killer who had just gotten done lifting weights all day because that is all he had to do, and he was asleep in his cell would you go and say oh what a good man? No. He is still a psycho killer he is just asleep. Same with dogs.

People who don't understand dogs and training assume keeping them calm is about tiring them out and it isn't the case. Keeping them calm is about managing and training their mental and emotional states.


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## Blitzkrieg1

Alot of it is nerves. If they are less then decent they lead to a lot of those anxiety laden behaviors.


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## Baillif

Zebu's nerves are horrible. Just have to get on top of everything, but yes I do agree it does play a role. 

Zebu was more likely to try to pace or be busy and all of that had to be managed/corrected/deconditioned.

One of the biggest mistakes a lot of sport people do is crate the dog unless its being let out to potty/train and they end up accidentally becoming a source of stimulation for their dogs because they show up and the dog assumes it's go time. You have to spend relaxed downtime with them often to keep that from happening.


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## Painful Pleasure

I joined just to reply to this old thread because there is some extremely good, timeless advice here that I wish I'd known 18 months ago.

First: "Pet type trainers will not know how to handle these super-intelligent, oftentimes insanely driven, dogs who are now bred mainly for sport and all the exaggeration of temperament, drives, impulse control (or lack thereof) that creates the spectacular flash-and-dash on the field. "
This is TRUE, TRUE, TRUE!!! This is the first time I've seen it written down but that is hands down the best advice any potential Mal owner will get.
I went through 6 trainers before getting one who understood. I'll also add, positive only trainers are probably a waste of your time. Maybe not, but all the ones I met were not up to the task, they couldn't hold my Mals attention - even when they were trying to teach engagement drills. Anti e-collar trainers should get some skepticism, it's a tool, used well a good tool. I've used them in the past but it was a long while so I got help and we could not have dealt with my Mals reactivity issues without it (not directly, but for focus and obedience that indirectly helped). 

I got mine last spring, during covid lockdowns, so no training facilities were open and nobody would socialize the puppy with me. That caused major issues that I'm still working through (after over 1000 hours in the last 16 months!).

All dogs get calmer as they age.
Mals are twitchy and jumpy. The GSD on speed is a pretty good description, not just faster and more hyper, but twitchy like a guy on speed.
They need a lot of work and attention. If you love it, they're the best. If you leave them alone all day, I hope you don't have expensive furniture.
I used to breed Mastiffs and Argentine Dogos, so I've had a number of dogs. My Mal is the most loyal, attentive, loving and affectionate dog I've ever had or seen. He's good with my friends, after he gets to know them. He's good with my family, and even our older pug, but he listens to me above all others. If my wife recalls him, he looks to me for approval. I didn't do that on purpose but I work him mainly so it happened.
They are reckless and that makes them extremely injury prone. My guy has injured his knee twice already and is in physio from it now. Be careful! Our last injury was when my son grabbed the bite sleeve, the dog missed and he jerked his arm the opposite direction and the dog tried to retake in mid air. He actually got the bite but landed sideways and took the momentum on his knee. Inexperienced decoy, and ultimately my fault for not preventing it.

For the right person, the Mal is the best. For the wrong person, they would be the worst.
Lastly, I thought I was experienced enough for a mal. I was wrong.
Line up a good, working dog trainer, well in advance. Make sure they have worked Mals, even ask for a reference. Have them ready before you get your dog.
I'm looking for a second one and my trainer is evaluating any and all potentials.


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## Slamdunc

These days Malinois and Dutch Shepherds can vary from calm, low drive to nervy, skittish and handler sensitive to awesome pets and working dogs. This is a very old thread. Mals and Duchies can also be fantastic pets, not super drivey and have excellent temperaments. Recently, I trained a Mal and a DS for narcotics detection and courier work. These dogs will run lines of people or individuals for narcotics. Neither dog will bite anyone, both have nice drives and are awesome dogs. Both handlers will allow kids to pet them with no issues. I've owned GSD's for many many years, trained and titles several from pups to SchH 3. I've also worked GSD's, a Dutch Shepherd and currently a GSD. That Dutch Shepherd was a tough dog to own and handle. He was a beast. I've only seen a few DS like him. I trained a Malinois last year to be my next work dog. Unfortunately, he has a torn CCL in his rear leg and had to retire. I kept him and he lives here with me. He is just under 3 years old. He is a high drive dog, wants to work, very focused and very serious. He is also extremely affectionate and sleeps in my lap while I watch TV. 

When you are looking to get a malinois, you need to be very careful in your selection process. We have several in our unit and they are excellent dogs. Temperament is really critical, nerve strength is very important as well as being environmental sound. The big difference between Mals and Dutch Shepherds can be hardness. Purely anecdotal, but I believe there is something to the brindle color in Mal X DS crosses. The ones from Holland, KNPV lines can be handler hard and handler aggressive. Especially, the adults they sell to the US.


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## Painful Pleasure

Slamdunc, yoy seem to know the breed well. What would you look for selecting a puppy? I'm looking at a 5 month old mal girl owned by a good FR trainer and breeder. He intended to raise her with his son but it hasn't worked out. He's done some early work with her and she looks good. Very stable, friendly and outgoing. Great drive, great with other dogs, including my reactive mal. I've been trying to get an independent assessment of her but timing and logistics seem to be working against me. While I've been working onnthst, I've spent some time with her and the trainer, along with my guy. The more time I spend, the more I pressed I am with both, but I'm still the same guy thst misjudged the last dog. I used to pick dogs well, but have lost confidence in myself on this. She is a really pretty dog seems to be a trainers dream, super focused and wants to please, with good focus for a 5 month old. She certainly doesn't have perfect obedience, nor do I expect it, but she does listen well even when she doesn't get what you're asking she still engages. I'm inclined to really love this dog and want to work her to FR titles, but do ot want another problem dog thst I need to work through. Anything you might be able to pass along will be appreciated for many years! Thank you, Cameron


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## Slamdunc

Painful Pleasure said:


> Slamdunc, yoy seem to know the breed well. What would you look for selecting a puppy? I'm looking at a 5 month old mal girl owned by a good FR trainer and breeder. He intended to raise her with his son but it hasn't worked out. He's done some early work with her and she looks good. Very stable, friendly and outgoing. Great drive, great with other dogs, including my reactive mal. I've been trying to get an independent assessment of her but timing and logistics seem to be working against me. While I've been working onnthst, I've spent some time with her and the trainer, along with my guy. The more time I spend, the more I pressed I am with both, but I'm still the same guy thst misjudged the last dog. I used to pick dogs well, but have lost confidence in myself on this. She is a really pretty dog seems to be a trainers dream, super focused and wants to please, with good focus for a 5 month old. She certainly doesn't have perfect obedience, nor do I expect it, but she does listen well even when she doesn't get what you're asking she still engages. I'm inclined to really love this dog and want to work her to FR titles, but do ot want another problem dog thst I need to work through. Anything you might be able to pass along will be appreciated for many years! Thank you, Cameron


When I test and evaluate dogs I look for a social dog, strong nerves, and environmentally sound. I like high drive dogs that are balanced in prey and defense and clear headed. Slightly higher prey than defense works well for me. Testing puppies is different than testing a young adult dog. With puppies I like outgoing pups, ones that seek me out. I like puppies (7- 8 weeks) that are comfortable on all kinds of flooring and new environments. I like drivey pups and the one that struggles a lot if you pick it up and try to turn it over. Basically, exactly the opposite of the old Volhard tests. If there is a litter of pups I watch them carefully and see how they interact. Which ones go off and explore alone and which ones run up to me to play. I may throw a large set of keys on the ground and watch the reactions. Pups that get startled rate lower, ones that notice but are not phased are good. The one that runs over pounces on the keys, grabs them and runs away from the other pups is a winner. If the other pups give chase and they tussle over the keys the one that gets or keeps them is one I would like. 

From what you've described that dog sounds pretty nice to me.


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## WNGD

I got my last bitch as a 12 week old that returned to the breeder as "too much for them"
When we saw her, she was busy beating the snot out of her brother....love at first sight.


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## Painful Pleasure

Slamdunc, thank you for sharing this. The girl I was looking at had good temperament and drive, maybe not the best bite but good. The day before I was going to pick her up I noticed a chip in 2 canines. Looks like she was chewing the crate. I did some research on cost of repair and they were eye opening! Up to $15k for a replacement! 

I spent the day trying to justify moving forward. I'd spent a lot of time with her and she is really sweet and I think would thrive with more time and attention. I really want a sport dog and I'd wonder every time she missed a bite, did that tooth break? 

The trainer I work with currently gave her a downcheck. She was good, not great. Feeling bad he made some calls and found a planned breeding for next year similar to the one thst produce one of his dogs (my favorite), and one that he just brokered a puppy for his apprentice last week. That puppy impresses him.

Fast forward an hour later, the buyer for the pick girl of the existing litter backed out and she was available. My trainer did some facetime and saw some videos of her. They know each other well. He called and gave me the scoop. I paypaled a deposit immediately. To quote, "This breeding was a nice linebreeding on the most successful combination of dogs in PSA history, Zuko x Isis."

I get this doesn't guarantee success, but it sure helps! Atari, my trainers dog out of the same dad, is the most stable mal I've met. Super easy to train, incredibly eager to please. We can sit outside and watch dogs go by, even bark at him without reaction (I'm told it they get really close and aggressive, he won't tolerate it). 

I'll be heading down in a week to get her. I will remember what you said and look for these things. 

How was thst for a single day? Ready to pickup a dog, find out it won't work after getting to know her, learning it will be a year for the right pup, and then that the right pupmis available today. The cherry on top of this, she's less than half the price of the 4 month old.

I'm still unhappy thet it didn't work out, the older girl was really sweet and beautiful. If I didn't sent to do s bite sport, I would have risked it.


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## K9SHOUSE

Adopt Fjord on Petfinder


Fjord is an adoptable Dog - Belgian Shepherd / Malinois searching for a forever family near Chester Springs, PA. Use Petfinder to find adoptable pets in your area.




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Just in case someone is actively looking for a potential working Mal female. Working or law enforcement placement only.


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