# Is this right? Quiz me!



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

So okay, I've been doing searches and some research about German Shepherd lines. See if I got this right:

German Show Lines:
Are the closet thing to the orginal GS the creator visioned. Are usually red and tan.

DDR Lines:
Supreme working lines. Were bred and used for police work. Good drives. Are usually sable or dark colored.

Czech lines:
Similar to DDR lines, but may be a bit better.

American lines:
Lots of problems. Lighter colored. roached back?

Is there a book, the most up to date, that tells about GS lines?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Um, no. Actually I'd say almost all of that is incorrect. Sorry.

You're also leaving out Western European working lines, which make up the majority of the working line population.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> Um, no. Actually I'd say almost all of that is incorrect. Sorry.
> 
> You're also leaving out Western European working lines, which make up the majority of the working line population.


Okay.

Back to the drawing board I go.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

GSDFan. . . are you on Pedigree Database? You can go back and read a lot of old threads there to get a feel for the different lines. Do NOT post there. They will eat you. You know how it is around here when somebody starts a "I'm thinking of breeding my dog" thread? Every thread is like that there. But if you can get past the character assasinations there's good info.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Emoore said:


> GSDFan. . . are you on Pedigree Database? You can go back and read a lot of old threads there to get a feel for the different lines. Do NOT post there. They will eat you. You know how it is around here when somebody starts a "I'm thinking of breeding my dog" thread? Every thread is like that there. But if you can get past the character assasinations there's good info.


Okay. I'll also dig around here for old threads about lines.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

GSD Fan said:


> So okay, I've been doing searches and some research about German Shepherd lines. See if I got this right:
> 
> German Show Lines:
> Are the closet thing to the orginal GS the creator visioned. Are usually red and tan.
> ...


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

GSD Fan, don't get discouraged, just goes to show you how difficult it is to find accurate information on the internet. 

I was reading breed discussions on various boards for TWO years and was ACTIVELY involved in Schutzhund, seeing GSDs of different lines and breedings working and being trained, and spending time and talking to people before it all started to come together and make sense to me (but that could just mean that I 'm a bit slow.)


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## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

Hope this helps. Good luck

Breed Types & Related Families


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

GSD Fan said:


> So okay, I've been doing searches and some research about German Shepherd lines. See if I got this right:
> 
> German Show Lines:
> Are the closet thing to the orginal GS the creator visioned. Are usually red and tan.
> ...


If you are going just by appearance, NONE of the current GSD's look anything like what the early ones looked like. Initially the top dogs looked like this:

*VA Roland vom Park (fr. vom Goldsteintal) (German Showlines!) Bundessieger list - German shepherd dog*

*SchH3* *Kkl 1* 



*Gerda vom Beckotal (German Working lines....)*

*SchH3* 
*Dam born : 14. May 1942*



And for the AKC...........Grand Victors



1920 German Sieger
1922 Grand Victor


Ch. Erich v Grafenwerth SchH III


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Best thing actually is to go to these three sites and go back in history to see the winners!

The following have the winners for AKC, and also the 2 separate lines in Germany

Grand Victors (AKC)

BSZS results : Year selection - German shepherd dog (German show)

BSP results : Year selection - German shepherd dog (German Working)


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Emoore said:


> GSDFan. . . are you on Pedigree Database? You can go back and read a lot of old threads there to get a feel for the different lines. Do NOT post there. They will eat you. You know how it is around here when somebody starts a "I'm thinking of breeding my dog" thread? Every thread is like that there. But if you can get past the character assasinations there's good info.


 
LMAO!!!!
Nothing like baptism by fire. They can post there and folks wont be that bad.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

hunterisgreat said:


>


 
:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

PDB is cleaned up a bit - they have moderators now, and people are behaving a bit better because they know that "bad" posts will be deleted. I've started posting there a bit, did get chewed up here and there for no reason at all (typicall, but didn't bother me, I was expecting it), but overall, it is a much nicer, gentler place - though still rough compared to this site.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> PDB is cleaned up a bit - they have moderators now, and people are behaving a bit better because they know that "bad" posts will be deleted. I've started posting there a bit, did get chewed up here and there for no reason at all (typicall, but didn't bother me, I was expecting it), but overall, it is a much nicer, gentler place - though still rough compared to this site.


There are a few dog sites I avoid because they are just too harsh and there is no real value in being bashed for no reason


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

If you're interested in seeing how the breed has evolved, (parts of it anyway) look around for *old issues* of German Shepherd (Dog) Review, German Shepherd Quarterly and Dog Fancy (if it has an article about GSD's).


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Now compared to this site, PDB is a SuperMax prison...lol

Once you gain respect of those there with quality posts it isn't bad. Don't let a few scare you off. A lot of very knowledgeable people are there with information you don't want to miss out on. Ignore the D-bags and your fine.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

It is the same people who do the bashing(and carry their baggage to every post they participate in) over there...you just have to ignore them and read the posts from the ones who are respectful and have knowledge. Hard to wade thru all that though, just to learn!


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

No thank you, I'll just LOOK, not post. I've get enough internet drama as it is. 

I'll also ask some breeders. You know what, Sequoyah GSDs has a write up about DDR. I'll read that and ask her and other breeders questions.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

It's a lot to wade through. It took me a long time, and meeting other types before I got any kind of handle on things. And of course, I have my own bias. We all do. 

You have to remember that everyone has their own preference and are blinded by love  A DDR breeder might tell you that THEIR dogs are the best representation of the breed, and West German showlines are roached back useless lumps, American dogs are worse, and the other workinglines are absolutely nuts with prey drive or sharpness,a little ugly, and not suitable unless you are a serious competitor. Showlines folks might say the same thing about all the working lines dogs regardless of type. 

It's a lot to work through, which is why ultimately you pick someone you like, whose dogs you like, and you hope that with consistency and training and luck on your part that pup grows into a dog that resembles it parents, the intent of the breeder...and those things you don't like or would change you file away for when you make your next puppy selection.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

PDB is a great place. I have made a lot of great contacts that I otherwise would have never made.

PDB is just like your job. Some people you love, like and hate. No need to take it personal. Im not a sensitive person so what lil smart comments that occur doesn't bother me. Heck some stuff on this site could rival what is on PDB to be honest. People here get snippy and all that other stuff as well. IMO I think you'd be nuts to not get advice from some of the people on there.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

JKlatsky said:


> It's a lot to wade through. It took me a long time, and meeting other types before I got any kind of handle on things. And of course, I have my own bias. We all do.
> 
> You have to remember that everyone has their own preference and are blinded by love  A DDR breeder might tell you that THEIR dogs are the best representation of the breed, and West German showlines are roached back useless lumps, American dogs are worse, and the other workinglines are absolutely nuts with prey drive or sharpness,a little ugly, and not suitable unless you are a serious competitor. Showlines folks might say the same thing about all the working lines dogs regardless of type.
> 
> It's a lot to work through, which is why ultimately you pick someone you like, whose dogs you like, and you hope that with consistency and training and luck on your part that pup grows into a dog that resembles it parents, the intent of the breeder...and those things you don't like or would change you file away for when you make your next puppy selection.


 
well said.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

I just read a bit about DDR German Shepherds and Czech German Shepherds. I really like what I read about the DDR German Shepherds.

They're East German and were bred under strict regulations. They were tested and evaluated. Only the best were bred. They didn't even use dogs that could have hip displaysia or could pass on hip displaysia. (Source: Sequoyah German Shepherds)

Well, thank you guys for the suggestions. I'm going to do a lot more research and searches. When I get the money, I'll get those 2 expensive books.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Any dog can pass on hip dysplasia. There is no way the breeders in former East Germany could have identified and eliminated dogs who could pass it on any more than breeders today could. 

As far as not using dogs with HD for breeding, the requirement for hip certifications free of HD has been in place for dogs bred in Germany... both East and West, and reunified... for generations. So it is nothing new, or unique to East Germany and DDR dogs. The same goes for dogs being bred under regulations, and tested and evaluated before breeding. Again, nothing new or unique to DDR dogs as this is and has been practiced in all of Germany for a very, very long time.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

GSD Fan said:


> German Show Lines:
> Are the closet thing to the orginal GS the creator visioned. Are usually red and tan.


There's no such thing as red and tan. If you mean black/red or black/tan, then yes they are almost exclusively that color, saddle patterned and often with fading black pigment.

As far as the first part being what the creator invisioned, no I don't think so. Looking at photos of modern show lines and the dogs of the early days, they look nothing alike. Physically, working lines are the most similar though there have still been some changes. 



GSD Fan said:


> DDR Lines:
> Supreme working lines. Were bred and used for police work. Good drives. Are usually sable or dark colored.


I guess supreme would be totally a matter of interpretation. Yes, they are dark colored. Yes, they are working lines. Yes, they were bred for police and military work, but also for show and sport just like any other line. Drives can be good, but typically are not high. They are generally lower in prey, with sharper more defensive temperaments.




GSD Fan said:


> Czech lines:
> Similar to DDR lines, but may be a bit better.


Better than supreme? 
Again, open to interpretation there. In physical appearance very similar to DDR lines. In temperament, some are, some are more like Western European working lines, some are anywhere in between. Also bred primarily for police and military work, often with more sharpness and defense, but also often with higher drives overall. 



GSD Fan said:


> American lines:
> Lots of problems. Lighter colored. roached back?


Lots of problems? No, not really any more than other lines. It depends on the bloodlines and breeder. When well bred, they are no more prone to health or temperament issues. Where most, though not all, are lacking, is in working temperament traits. Most could do things like obedience, tracking, agility, fewer could do herding or SAR or service work, and very few have the temperament for protection work. Whether that is a problem would depend on the preference and goals of the owner.

Lighter colored, no. They come in all colors, black/tan being most common but no where near as prevalent as in the German show lines. Black pigment tends to be good, with darker and more extensive markings.

Roached back, no. That's German show lines, not American. American show lines are more characterized by significant rear angulation, but backs are typically very straight.

Then there are the Western European working lines, domestic "pet" lines, White Shepherds....


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

or you can visit Breed Types & Related Families

This is Linda Shaw's site , my friend, whose dog registered as Easter Parade , known as Timmy, was a Carmspack Katiana son. Katiana was full sister to my great dog Kilo.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Yes Miss Chris Wild, I meant tan and black and red and black.

I'll keep doing more research and homework.

I thank you and everyone else for their feedback.


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