# Teaching my GSD and pet Lionlop Rabbit to coexist peacefully



## Meshuggah

Hi friends I need your help desperately. 

I recently got a 6.5 month old amazing GSD. His temperament is amazing and very stable. He is BIG (comes in at 84.5 lbs already) and he is VERY strong already. He is super smart as just within the first week of being with him I have been able to train him to consistently follow SIT, DOWN, STAY, PLAY DEAD, LEAVE IT, CRATE, etc. He walks wonderfully on the leash and has learnt all to well that tugging on it doesn't lead to good results. He is my pride and joy. But here is the major problem. 

We have had a pet rabbit and he is like my first son. He is probably THE smartest pet rabbit who is so well trained to go into his cage to do his business and to follow us around and come when called. Yes I am talking about a rabbit here. 

The problem is that everytime we try to introduce our GSD to the rabbit (by having the rabbit in the cage or vice versa while the GSD is lounging in his closed crate and rabbit is outside of it), it almost leads to a very tense scene. The GSD immediately gets very alert, his ears perk up, his stance is a forward "charging" sort of a stance and he gives an unmistakeable vibe like he is going to "go after the rabbit". This gets me and the wife VERY SCARED because there is NO way we can let our GSD kill or hurt out rabbit. This would devastate us. 

So I turn to you to seek guideance and suggestions as to how our GSD can be trained so as to be calm in front of the rabbit and get to accept him like a sibbling more than a prey or something he can eat. PLEASE help us because we need this to work out otherwise the very sad thing to do would be to return him to the breeder (which we do not have neither the courage nor the heart to do). We NEED TO make this work. 

Please let me know training tips or methods to follow to make this introduction and eventual co-existence work. We have tried using the gentle command and giving him treats and making him calm through positive association around the rabbit. But after a few seconds he stands up and wants to go after the rabbit. 

Thanks so much in advance for your time.


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## marshies

I had a puppy and a Netherland dwarf. While I trained her to leave the rabbit alone if we pass it on lead, I would never EVER leave them together in any situation. It will end in bloodshed. Heck, some of my dog's toys look like my rabbit, like her flirt pole. It's in his nature to chase to rabbit. So it's a little unfair to ask that of him, in my opinion. 

I would seperate the dog and the rabbit. Crate the dog if you have the rabbit out. Drape a towel over the crate if the rabbit msut be let out in the same room.


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## lemonadeicedtea

There was a thread about this a while ago: 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/149746-my-dog-killed-our-pet-rabbit.html

Morbid title for you, but there's some good advice in there. Hope it helps!


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## MichaelE

Never leave the two together alone no matter how well you think your GSD is trained.

That's like asking the wolf to watch the sheep.

Dogs like to chase, kill, and eat rabbits, and all the training in the world is not going to erase that instinct.


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## wolfy dog

I have tried this with our bunnies and WD but he will eat them alive if given the chance. He cannot even focus on toys or treats when he hears the word "bunny". And he is very obedient otherwise but in this case the predator in him takes the better of him. I have given up.
I just keep them safe from each other and spend time alone with the buns.


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## Meshuggah

Hi everyone

Thank you so much for your responses. It is very sad that I came onto this forum hoping and thinking that somehow someone just might weave a magic wand and give me that ONE THING that I could do which would turn both these lovable pets into best friends (just as I saw in a couple youtube videos). But I was clearly in denial and all of you are right....how can I expect my GSD's predatory instincts to just get extinguished for something so "tempting" as a rabbit to him. 

I don't know...I am quite distraught because this and a couple of signs are pointing toward me to return this boy to the breeder. It is very heart breaking because our rabbit has totally freaked out and is demonstrating aggressive and nervous behaviors that he never before did. And we don't want anything really bad to happen to him as they are super sensitive creatures. And the thought of returning the dog is very crushing also. Only I am to blame to have brought this on ourselves.


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## llombardo

I had my sisters rabbit for a couple months when my GSD was 4-6 months old. She loved that rabbit. I never put the dog in the cage and let the rabbit out in front of it. First I put them both in their cages and put the cages next to each other, then I left the rabbit in the cage and let them(all three of my dogs) smell it through the cage. Within a couple days they were all fine. We went to the pet store yesterday that has lots of puppies, well my dog didn't want anything to do with the puppies, but she was kissing the bunny rabbit and wanted to take that home


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## qbchottu

Meshuggah said:


> I was clearly in denial and all of you are right....how can I expect my GSD's predatory instincts to just get extinguished for something so "tempting" as a rabbit to him.


Glad you are able to see the reality of the situation. Please research and fully understand the drives of the breed - prey drive is a carnal instinct and you cannot trust a fox in the chicken coop. 

Is containment and separation a possibility for your family? Dog gates, crate and rotate, separate rooms, xpen, outside run/kennel with house time rotated in, enclosures, etc. You cannot expect the two to free roam together - that is completely unrealistic.


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## Meshuggah

llombardo said:


> I had my sisters rabbit for a couple months when my GSD was 4-6 months old. She loved that rabbit. I never put the dog in the cage and let the rabbit out in front of it. First I put them both in their cages and put the cages next to each other, then I left the rabbit in the cage and let them(all three of my dogs) smell it through the cage. Within a couple days they were all fine. We went to the pet store yesterday that has lots of puppies, well my dog didn't want anything to do with the puppies, but she was kissing the bunny rabbit and wanted to take that home


Lucky you!!! I was SO, SO hoping and wishing for such a situation. But right now as things seem there is NO way I can let the rabbit come close to this guy. Maybe he just wants to play...or maybe he is dying to charge at the bunny and tear him apart. I can't tell....what i can certainly see is a very aggressive posture toward the rabbit and my heart doesn't allow him to be let loose in front of the rabbit. It will surely lead to blood shed


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## llombardo

Meshuggah said:


> Lucky you!!! I was SO, SO hoping and wishing for such a situation. But right now as things seem there is NO way I can let the rabbit come close to this guy. Maybe he just wants to play...or maybe he is dying to charge at the bunny and tear him apart. I can't tell....what i can certainly see is a very aggressive posture toward the rabbit and my heart doesn't allow him to be let loose in front of the rabbit. It will surely lead to blood shed


I wouldn't allow them to loose together either, because whether its play or not, once the dog gets a grip on the rabbit, it won't end well. Have you tried having the rabbit in the cage and the dog near the cage, but not able to get to the rabbit? Does the dog know leave it? Even after all of this, the dog and rabbit will probably not do well together, but its a nice safety net to know that in case the rabbit gets out, the dog will listen to you until you can get the rabbit to safety.


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## Meshuggah

llombardo said:


> I wouldn't allow them to loose together either, because whether its play or not, once the dog gets a grip on the rabbit, it won't end well. Have you tried having the rabbit in the cage and the dog near the cage, but not able to get to the rabbit? Does the dog know leave it? Even after all of this, the dog and rabbit will probably not do well together, but its a nice safety net to know that in case the rabbit gets out, the dog will listen to you until you can get the rabbit to safety.



The dog understands and follows leave it, stay, out, and gentle pretty well. He is quite consistent in execution but I kid you not, something just takes over him or possesses him around the rabbit and then its almost like I have to lift up this 85 lbs gorilla and get him out of the room. 

I have tried your suggestion of having the rabbit in its cage and bringing the dog close to him to get used to his presence. It starts of slightly calmly and very quickly develops into a VERY tense stance and then leading to him going after the cage and wanting to get to the rabbit inside the cage. And that is when I have to intervene with force and try to literally lift him to get out of the room. When he tries to be calm, I have tried to praise him pet him and give him treats but it lasts only for a second and before I know it he starts to charge after the cage or at least appears to become VERY anxious to get inside it to the rabbit. 

Alternatively, we have tried letting the rabbit near the dog crate when the dog is in the crate. Ironically the rabbit is one fearless tasmanian devil. But as soon as he comes close to the dog or his field of vision then again the dog becomes very tense and wants to tear out of the crate. 

I don't know what to do, we have tried positive association/ reinforcement but it doesn't work. We have tried keeping them cordoned off from each other but that has started to lead to behavioral problems in the rabbit with his unprecedented digging and chewing which never happened before. And at the end of the day it is causing MAJOR stress to me and my wife because we have to give each of them divided attention and this family dynamic just doesn't seem to be working out. 

Like I said the thought of returning the dog is absolutely crushing and it doesn't even compute fully in our brains because he is an otherwise SUCH an obedient and super-smart, well adjusted dog. We are in a very bad situation


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## sitstay

Nature abhors a vacuum. Rather than putting bunny and dog in proximity to each other and expecting the dog to come up with his own, acceptable behaviors, have dog on leash and do some obedience work. Get his mind working on something else. Do not let him fill in the blanks on his own! 

It could very well be that this dog is just not a good choice to share a home with a rabbit. Not fair to the dog and certainly not fair to the rabbit if that is the case. 
Sheilah


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## NancyJ

There is a technique using low stim ecollar that WILL have a high chance of working with the dog but with my dog who was like that towards critters ..... yes we "fixed" her but I would never ever trust her with a prey animal. 

I got her to the point where she could walk through a flock of chickens (and of course they are clucking and flapping and being the supreme prey attraction) and ignore them by using his techniques.

You can google Lou Castle and get his take on it. Seriosly - we did it with my female after extracting a rooster from her mouth and after she chased a goat under a horse and through an electric cattle fence, took the shock, and kept on chasing. 

But I always felt there was some level of risk. That is a lot to ask the rabbit to go through as well. It is a prey animal and it KNOWS it is a prey animal. I know rabbits don't handle stress very well at all. And my dog still WANTED to chase prey animals. She just thought better of it and stopped herself.

Unless you can keep them 100% separated all time.........I would be very concerned.


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## wolfy dog

Meshuggah said:


> but I kid you not, something just takes over him or possesses him around the rabbit


That's his predatory side come out and he will kill your bunny most likely. I think you may just as well give up on trying to get him to get along with your bunny. At best he may show some impulse control but if one day you are not watching.........:shocked: :help:


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## martemchik

Maybe I'm ignorant but why does the bunny get free reign? Every bunny I've ever seen gets put in a cage and let out once in a while when people want to interact with it.

I would never trust my dog around anything prey sized. Even if I had trained him to ignore. He ignores squirrels pretty well, but when it comes to bunnies...they're toast. He's had a little tracking training, but I've been dragged as he tracked a bunny for about 200 yards and then realized what it was (it was in sight) and tried to go after it.

If you really think its not fair to your bunny to now be demoted to a certain area...then I do suggest you find another home for the dog. But I don't see anything wrong with crating one or the other and keeping them separate...of course I would also not mind putting a rabbit in a cage for a long time as I don't think they need as much room as a dog (personal opinion).


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## marshies

I really think they have nothing to gain from being friends with each other. So other than being a hassle for your family to have to commit to spending time to both of them, they really aren't troubled by their lack of a relationship.

In fact, the rabbit may even be glad. 

When I had my Netherland dwarf, my vet told me that rabbits can be very stoic. They don't show fear, pain, or illness because that makes them more vulnerable prey. My rabbit could be literally dying of fear from my dog being there and look normal, which is why I didn't introduce them past the first time around to see if there was a possibility for them to even be put in the same room when crated. I wasn't sure what her reaction was, stoic or really nonchalant. 

I was able to manage both rabbit and dog well, but both it was on a "crate and rotate" schedule. The dog obviously requires more of your time outright engaged and committed in activity, but the rabbit was first, and it's understandable that you feel very attached and emotionally obligated to do best by her.

Best of luck in your choices. Please don't try to make them friends. It will end in bloodshed. There are breeds, and individual dogs within breeds that can befriend rabbits. But from how you're describing your dog's reaction, it doesn't seem to be the case.


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## marshies

martemchik said:


> Maybe I'm ignorant but why does the bunny get free reign? Every bunny I've ever seen gets put in a cage and let out once in a while when people want to interact with it.
> 
> I would never trust my dog around anything prey sized. Even if I had trained him to ignore. He ignores squirrels pretty well, but when it comes to bunnies...they're toast. He's had a little tracking training, but I've been dragged as he tracked a bunny for about 200 yards and then realized what it was (it was in sight) and tried to go after it.
> 
> If you really think its not fair to your bunny to now be demoted to a certain area...then I do suggest you find another home for the dog. But I don't see anything wrong with crating one or the other and keeping them separate...of course I would also not mind putting a rabbit in a cage for a long time as I don't think they need as much room as a dog (personal opinion).


My rabbit had a "expen" sort of situation made of tiny little foot tall metal shelving material. This was laid out to be around 6 feet long and 4 feet wide. She also gets time to just run around and be a rabbit, and many do choose that if their rabbits are potty trained. 

My dog would've easily jumped this little enclosure if they were free in the same area.


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## LouCastle

Thanks for the mention Nancy. I appreciate it. HERE'S THE LINK to the article that Nancy was talking about. 

Using this method I've had pretty good success in training dogs not to chase animals that they consider to be prey. But if your dog has pronounced prey drive, and you can't tell at this age, it may not work if the prey animal does something that brings out that drive in the dog. As long as you're present, and the dog is under command, you can probably control this behavior, if you train the recall and the sit with the Ecollar, per my methods. But I'd not leave them alone together. It would just take a few seconds for a GSD to kill or injure a rabbit.


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## KlausVanWinkle

We have a 3 year old rabbit and a 11 month old female GSD. We've had both since about 8 weeks. We still don't let the two loose at the same time. 

Both of their cages are in the family room on opposite sides of the room. I know rabbits are stoic, but I'm pretty convinced our rabbit is not at all afraid of the dog. She'll flop in her cage with the dog staring at her. We feel bad for the rabbit. So we let the rabbit have free reign of the family room while we're at work (the dog goes to work with my wife or I every day). When we come home, we keep the dog on the leash and shake the rabbit's treat bag. The rabbit will run through the dogs feet and around in circles before hopping in her cage. She's more interested in treats than being afraid of the dog. 

The GSD doesn't show any signs of agression toward the rabbit. She does like to follow the rabbit around though. One time my wife forgot the rabbit was out and the dog found her first. But the dog just stood over the rabbit licking her. Luckily this has only happened once. 

We leave the dog out most of the time now. And other than the rabbit running around her cage like crazy, the dog totally ignores the rabbit and her cage. The dog will go stare at the rabbit if we yell at the rabbit for doing something bad.

After a full day at the beach, the dog was exhausted so we let both of them out at the same time to test the waters a bit. The dog just laid with her face on the floor and let the rabbit do her thing. The rabbit clicked (purring) and romped around like there was no dog. 










But I definitely echo everyoen else's caution. We still almost never let the dog and rabbit out at the same time. And when we do the dog is on a short leash. A few times the dog has made a sudden movement toward the rabbit. I didn't wait to find out if it was another lick or a bite. Now the dog is a little afraid to interact with the rabbit. And I'd like to keep it that way.


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## David Taggart

> a 6.5 month old amazing GSD. His temperament is amazing and very stable. He is BIG (comes in at 84.5 lbs already) and he is VERY strong already. He is super smart as just within the first week of being with him I have been able to train him to consistently follow SIT, DOWN, STAY, PLAY DEAD, LEAVE IT, CRATE, etc.


It's great!!! You've got *a true GSD from Working Line*, and it means, that you've got a road to success redcarpeted. Working line GSDs you can train absolutely everything, you can make them agressive, but you also can make them incredibly docile and amiable. Keep on consulting the professionals on this Forum on every step of this matter while watching your rabbit and your dog' relationship in progress.
So, how you describe, they are two males. Dogs recognise sexes intuitively, they know who of us is a man, and who is the woman. They know smelly cats and stinky ferrets, they know fouling pigs and sounding horses, they know their sex. So, one of your males is an intruder in your house. It couldn't be otherwise between two young males. Your dog wouldn't react on your rabbit as a preditor reacts on his natural prey, because he was never taught that the rabbit and his smell could promise a meal. He, the intruder, can react on the rabbit as one male react on presence of the other, and dog males at the age of 6 months like to engage in a rough play when they see any possible companion. The intruder always behaves agressively, he has to, and your task is - not to suppress his agression, but redirect it.
To stop both males competing for territory you should separate them by providing a shelter where the smell of the other could be lesser detected. It could be nice to leave your dog outside for night, night smells and sounds will take his attention away from the worried rabbit.
Sometimes, rabbits behave agressively towards house dogs. They chase them round the back yard trying to bite, really pushing that barking bit out of their territory, because male rabbits, as any other males are territorial. You might think you know your rabbit, but he might prove you wrong. The tables might swap in the way the least expected, you might train your dog to be gentle, but your rabbit might start taking advantage, attacking your dog, dog's instincts reviving, and - again, very unpleasant conflict, inside out conflict. 
IMHO, you should teach them both that they have their own territory, and their own place to sleep, and their own plate to eat. Meet them outside on the grass more often, playing ball with your dog (leashed) and teaching him not to do any movement towards the rabbit, it should be a forbidden toy for him. Ask him to lie down every time he pulls toward the rabbit. These sessions gradually could become walks together in the park with your rabbit and your dog unleashed. I'd suggest for inside the house training to teach your dog to be patient at command "Sit!", he must keep sitting whilst your rabbit hops around or sits on your wife's lap. For a short while first, then make it longer, finally, doesn't matter what your GSD feels towards your bunny - he will sit, lie down and just watch him. They might hardly stand each other in the future, but be optimistic, always tell your dog in human words that you love him more than that fluffy thing, all males need to be told it. Sure, you will tell your rabbit absolutely the same.


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## NancyJ

Not that it mattered, the OP had a Showlines GSD, and it sounds like the choice may have been made to return the dog. Dogs are dogs, regardless of lines.

Klausvanwinkle (welcome to the forum!) has an 11 month old female GSD (lines, which are not important here, are not specified), and sounds like the dog is doing very well but they understand they are walking a tightrope between a prey animal and a predator.


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## Dainerra

I've done it. My GSD was older, already reliable with leave it and other animals. Never ever ever would I leave them alone unattended but it can be done with close supervision.
My younger male? no way could I do something like this. Maybe in a few years when he is less active but I won't hold my breath. He just likes to watch things run!
At your dog's age, I just wouldn't do it. If for no other reason than him being a baby and their attention span and impulse control leave a lot to be desired.


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## David Taggart

> between a prey animal and a predator


Sorry for my high opinion about Working line, you are right, there are many obedient characters in Show line.
Predatory instincts come out in chase, not in a stationary situation. That is on the open field only. No chase - no hunt, no hunt - no predatory instincts, simply natural inquisitiveness. Dogs do not have such an instinct that the rabbits could be their prey, they have to be taught. Young wolves would die of hunger before 7-8 months old if their parents and members of the pack didn't regurgitate first for them, and later teach them WHAT they shout hunt. In order to ignite preditory instincts in hounds who are used for hunting a real living rabbit is used, it is cruel, I know, but it is the way they were always trained. Gun dogs are trained with a use of a real living duck, hidden in bushes. Hunting dogs are trained to find it by smell, to chase it and to kill it. If in the next cage/crate was a non-prey animal dog's reactions would be absolutely the same, he would be thirsty to find out what sort of creature it is, and if it possible to play. It could be a good idea to start taking the dog to the puppy doggy park, so he could release his emotions. And start training him to ignore the rabbit, who is not his prey, but a competitor for living space.


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## JakodaCD OA

Dainerra I just have to say, that is the CUTEST picture ever


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## Guest

Hi- we have 2 rabbits free range, a cat, and recently added 2 collie bernese mix puppies. We waited for advice from a dog psychologist, who strongly encouraged us to get the dogs out with the rabbits separately for a few minutes a day, not paying any attention to the rabbits at all, but engaging the dogs in quiet play (after they had been well exercised before). Crucial is to have the dog leashed just in case, and to intersperse your body between dog and small animal. So far so good. The dogs come with me to clean the rabbit room when the rabbits are free to go in and out so they are used to the scent. The rabbits are more curious than scared at this point. It may work, though I am very careful to rotate spaces and it also may never work. But the tip is good...


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## roseb

martemchik said:


> Maybe I'm ignorant but why does the bunny get free reign? Every bunny I've ever seen gets put in a cage and let out once in a while when people want to interact with it.
> 
> I would never trust my dog around anything prey sized. Even if I had trained him to ignore. He ignores squirrels pretty well, but when it comes to bunnies...they're toast. He's had a little tracking training, but I've been dragged as he tracked a bunny for about 200 yards and then realized what it was (it was in sight) and tried to go after it.
> 
> If you really think its not fair to your bunny to now be demoted to a certain area...then I do suggest you find another home for the dog. But I don't see anything wrong with crating one or the other and keeping them separate...of course I would also not mind putting a rabbit in a cage for a long time as I don't think they need as much room as a dog (personal opinion).


Hi @martemchik- I think you bring up a good point, but speaking as a rabbit owner and long time dog lover (and extensive experience with GSDs in particular in my family) it’s hard to make that decision. At this time, I only have rabbits (and it sounds like the person who posted this) did too and it’s hard to limit their roam after they are first in the house to not create a tense, territorial situation between the rabbit and dog. I have watched quite a few friends dogs at my house with the rabbits (not to mention doing extensive research on particular breeds to look into) but everything I’ve seen suggests having separated living areas is key.


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## Fodder

roseb said:


> Hi @martemchik- I think you bring up a good point, but speaking as a rabbit owner and long time dog lover (and extensive experience with GSDs in particular in my family) it’s hard to make that decision. At this time, I only have rabbits (and it sounds like the person who posted this) did too and it’s hard to limit their roam after they are first in the house to not create a tense, territorial situation between the rabbit and dog. I have watched quite a few friends dogs at my house with the rabbits (not to mention doing extensive research on particular breeds to look into) but everything I’ve seen suggests having separated living areas is key.


welcome to the forum roseb!
just a note, you are replying to a 9yr old thread and a non-active member.


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