# Picking dogs based on looks



## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

It's looked down upon to do that. I understand the reasons behind it, health and temperament should come first. You can have a beautiful dog that bites or is crippled and his looks don't mean much at that point. 

But I don't think we can deny that people are visual creatures. Looks matter in our world, people can talk about 'inside beauty' all they want but I think I read about studies that prove that pretty people have things a little easier. 

Back to dogs, the reason most people are attached to a certain breed to begin with is largely because of looks. Yes, there are breed traits and breed reputation (some people want a 'tough dog') but i'd say looks do play a huge part in the picking process. 

So if you agree with that then what's wrong with taking it a step further and picking the color and look? 

It's much easier to bond with an animal if you like their look IMO. Or maybe, I like my dog's look because I bonded with him?
That's an interesting one)))))


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## ZoeD1217 (Feb 7, 2014)

I don't think there is anything wrong with liking and preferring a certain look. 

I think it becomes an issue when it's all you care about. 

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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

ZoeD1217 said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with liking and preferring a certain look.
> 
> I think it becomes an issue when it's all you care about.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Lol that thread in mind? Yeah, that's why I posted. But I always thought about this


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I don't think you should pick a dog based on looks alone. But there are so many good breeders out there that it's not hard to find one breeding for EVERYTHING on your list. It's just can't be the only thing on your list. 




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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> I don't think you should pick a dog based on looks alone. But there are so many good breeders out there that it's not hard to find one breeding for EVERYTHING on your list. It's just can't be the only thing on your list.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree. 

What if there wasn't such a selection? What if you found a dog that's perfect in every way but looks wise is not your type. 

I'm not sure what i'd do. Hopefully take him anyway)))))) 


Now I'm wondering, do I like my dog's looks because he's mine or he just happened to look the way I like? He's not the traditional looking gsd (or mix) so I think it's the first. 



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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Just over a year ago I was getting a black/red from a reputable breeder , until I walked into the shelter and walked past Midnites cage. I did not like his looks , they did not appeal to me even a little bit. He looked at me with such longing in his eyes and it hit me hard. If course I had them bring him out and his temperament was absolutely wonderful. Needless to say I spent the next couple days thinking about him and made the decision to get him and give up the puppy I was going to get. It took me a long time to even like his looks, we bonded way before I realized he was good looking. In my case looks had nothing to with why I chose him or making it easier to bond.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217841&stc=1&d=1403055047


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

I had my heart set on a sable when I got Delta. She was from a litter that produced almost all sables... But she was the only female. She's a black and tan. She may not be what I thought I wanted in terms of looks but she's utterly perfect in every other way and exactly what I wanted for temperament (and she's a very pretty girl, if I do say). I'm glad I didn't hold out and wait for a sable. I think it's fine to have something in mind in terms of looks, but it's a problem when you forego everything else to get a look you want.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Llombardo, I read your thread last years when you posted it. That's him in the picture? I thought it was the one without the mask



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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> I had my heart set on a sable when I got Delta. She was from a litter that produced almost all sables... But she was the only female. She's a black and tan. She may not be what I thought I wanted in terms of looks but she's utterly perfect in every other way and exactly what I wanted for temperament (and she's a very pretty girl, if I do say). I'm glad I didn't hold out and wait for a sable. I think it's fine to have something in mind in terms of looks, but it's a problem when you forego everything else to get a look you want.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 
I saw your post in the other thread. That's why I posted. You replying to that post. 

I think this is the right way to go about it, just not sure how easy it is to do for everyone. 

I wonder if looks have something to do with dogs being dumped in shelters. Or it's always temperament?

Like did anyone dump their dogs because they don't like their looks? No one would probably admit to it because they'd be afraid to look shallow but I wonder if it happens often?

If it does then maybe picking based on looks is not such a bad idea for some? Then again, if someone is keeping their dog only because they like his look then maybe that's not the best place for them. 

Lol, excuse me, I am having fun. I like thinking about stuff like this. 



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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

lalachka said:


> Llombardo, I read your thread last years when you posted it. That's him in the picture? I thought it was the one without the mask
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes that is him. He has matured and filled out I call him my 99 dollar special because I got him on sale at the shelter, completely crazy that he sat for a few months.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217849&stc=1&d=1403055461


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Yes that is him. He has matured and filled out
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217849&stc=1&d=1403055461



I like him)))) I like thin dogs personally but his face (lol) is my taste

I thought I remembered you saying something about lack of mask and I assumed it was the lighter dog that was in your avatar before

Whatever though, that's commendable. I always admired people that just love dogs, looks and breeds aside. I'm much more shallow than that. 


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

lalachka said:


> I like him)))) I like thin dogs personally but his face (lol) is my taste
> 
> I thought I remembered you saying something about lack of mask and I assumed it was the lighter dog that was in your avatar before
> 
> ...


We kinda like him too He is a huge part of the family and I couldn't be happier with him. He looks bigger then he is . He got up to 100 pounds and I put him on a diet. 80-85 is the goal and we are almost there. My female is considered slim and slender by the vet.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There is nothing wrong with wanting a certain color or pattern. A dog is a 12-14 year investment so why not get what you want if you are willing to wait for it? 

However, along with color all the other things need to be considered. Temp., Health, energy level you want. It can't just be all about color.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

lalachka said:


> I saw your post in the other thread. That's why I posted. You replying to that post.
> 
> I think this is the right way to go about it, just not sure how easy it is to do for everyone.
> 
> ...


Dogs absolutely get dumped because of looks. It happens far more often than I care to think about. 

I had people in the last store that literally walked in, saw a dog they liked better in looks, got the new dog and then a week later the old one was "mysteriously" gone. I don't think people like this should have animals at all. They can't take care of them and they don't see them as living things. And if the new dog does anything wrong? Then I hear "well, it was pretty, but it was crazy/mean/cold/misbehaved/didn't want to play fetch" (seriously) and then it goes right back in the system.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Otto was my first puppy after years of having rescues. Both his parents were rich bicolors who looked like Luther which was what first caught my eye on this match up. I met the dam, what a charm and the sire, drive out the waz. At 5 weeks old, I did a PAT on the whole litter. 2 of them were black, I kinda always wanted a black but Otto was the puppy I wanted. At 5 weeks, he looked like Luther.

Turned out I wanted a puppy with Luther's temperment and that's what I got. Other than bone structure, Otto looks nothing like Luther now that he's grown. Acts just like him though and I love that. 

With Viv, I still had black dog on the brain. Karen breeds for blacks with health tests and solid temperments (everyone remembers Blackjack and Sally - Viv's sire's parents, One of the black girls from the dynmaic Thing 1 and Thing 2 duo, one of them is V's mother)

Venus was shipped to me at 8 weeks old after Karen took great care to listen to Otto's quirks and what I wanted in a puppy. I got exactly what I wanted. And she's black.

Readers digest version of that: trust your breeder


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

I had my heart set on a bicolor female. Only one female in the litter and she's liver...when it came down to it color didn't matter I just wanted a dog.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I had my heart set on one particular female because she was pretty and she liked ball... One year later I'm taking her to a barn to learn to bite appropriately, I'm into an extremely time consuming dog sport, and I have gotten her a brother and bought a house so she can have a yard...Now I have an intelligent and gorgeous creature that I must learn to control for her own safety . Such is the life of a GSD owner who is responsible for her decision to love a dog completely no matter what she needs. The rewards, however, are endless with German Shepherds.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I fell in love with a petfinder photo of a local stray. I wanted to foster the dog and did so. I wish I could have been a foster failure with him, he was such a great dog, but he was reactive/aggressive to my husband and son...so not a good fit for my family.
We bonded quickly, even though I knew he'd only be temporarily living with me. Once he earned my trust, his loyalty was so amazing. I still miss him.
I would always choose a breeder that has what I'm looking for visually as the lines are part of the structure and color that goes right along with the rest of the dog. Nothing wrong with it, IMO.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> There is nothing wrong with wanting a certain color or pattern. A dog is a 12-14 year investment so why not get what you want if you are willing to wait for it?
> 
> However, along with color all the other things need to be considered. Temp., Health, energy level you want. It can't just be all about color.




That's what I thought)))) I picked my dog based on looks only (puppy looks, not sure how reliable that is)))) but I didn't know any better. Now I do and if I get another one then I will try picking the one with the right temperament and hopefully no health issues. Since I'm still largely clueless, I'm not sure how I will judge temperament. hopefully by then I either learn or someone will help))))

And looks))))) 


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Pax8 said:


> Dogs absolutely get dumped because of looks. It happens far more often than I care to think about.
> 
> 
> 
> I had people in the last store that literally walked in, saw a dog they liked better in looks, got the new dog and then a week later the old one was "mysteriously" gone. I don't think people like this should have animals at all. They can't take care of them and they don't see them as living things. And if the new dog does anything wrong? Then I hear "well, it was pretty, but it was crazy/mean/cold/misbehaved/didn't want to play fetch" (seriously) and then it goes right back in the system.



What do you mean 'In your store'. Pet store or a shelter?

Didn't want to play fetch? Lol

If dogs can choose their owners most of us would be In for a wake up call. I often wonder if my dog would've chosen me if he had the choice. Like, maybe he'd want to go to a sport home or a working home. Or maybe just a different owner. 

Also, if dogs could talk I wonder whether we'd still love them as much as we do. Since they can't talk it's easy to imagine and attribute many thoughts and qualities to them. 



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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

lalachka said:


> What do you mean 'In your store'. Pet store or a shelter?
> 
> Didn't want to play fetch? Lol
> 
> ...


Pet store with an adoption center. Not the most prestigious job, but it pays rent.

I think Kaiju would want more liver.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

SunCzarina said:


> Readers digest version of that: trust your breeder



[email protected] readers digest version. 

But how do we find a breeder we can trust? I read horror stories of people that did it the 'right way': researched the breeders, met the dogs, got references and ended up with dogs with countless health issues. 


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Pax8 said:


> Pet store with an adoption center. Not the most prestigious job, but it pays rent.
> 
> I think Kaiju would want more liver.



That's not why I asked))))) exactly, it pays rent. 

I was just wondering if these people were buying or rescuing. 
Not that it matters much. Good owners have bought pets in bad places. It just depends on how much you know before you buy. 

So your store adopts or sells?


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

lalachka said:


> That's not why I asked))))) exactly, it pays rent.
> 
> I was just wondering if these people were buying or rescuing.
> Not that it matters much. Good owners have bought pets in bad places. It just depends on how much you know before you buy.
> ...


They adopt. They have a kennel space built in the back and shelters use it to show the animals they have up for adoption. For now, it's the city shelter. Though they're getting huge cutbacks soon, so I don't know how much longer they'll be able to stay there.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

lauren43 said:


> I had my heart set on a bicolor female. Only one female in the litter and she's liver...when it came down to it color didn't matter I just wanted a dog.



Yep, this is how it should be. I wonder how often this is how it actually goes)))) meaning, how many people did turn the pup down or gotten it just to get rid of it later. 



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## Athena'sMom (Jan 9, 2014)

Looks are not everything! When I got my girl Athena she was the last puppy left in her litter and she had no fur on her nose due to rough play with litter mates. It was unknown if her fur would grow back but her personality grabbed me. She was so bubbly and happy! The breeder and I spoke for over an hour about this girls amazing personality, temperament and drive. She may have been the "ugly duckling" but Athena turned into a stunning swan. Wouldn't trade her for all the money in the world! Best decision I ever made!


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

lalachka said:


> [email protected] readers digest version.
> 
> But how do we find a breeder we can trust? I read horror stories of people that did it the 'right way': researched the breeders, met the dogs, got references and ended up with dogs with countless health issues.
> 
> ...


A lot of those people, at least from threads here... didn't actually do their research. They think they did, but they didn't know which questions to ask, who to ask... so a lot of them get swayed by a flashy website and flowery language. To a lot of people "doing research" means checking out a website or two, reading some testimonials on the site, etc rather than just calling someone out of the classifieds.

That being said, it's not unheard of for health issues to pop up from responsible breeders, but I certainly wouldn't say it's the norm.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ZoeD1217 said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with liking and preferring a certain look.
> 
> I think it becomes an issue when it's all you care about.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I agree with this completely.

I admit, I didn't care for the GSD breed, I thought they were smart, easy to train, intimidating dogs that only came in black/tan or white, I personally am not attracted to those colors so the breed never really interested me. Once I found out they came in all black, I was sold and I went and bought a black male puppy. He had a great personality, he was funny and sweet, outgoing and playful, if he didn't have a good personality then I wouldn't have taken him home. Now I like black, sables and bicolors and the occasional dark red/blacks. 

I also admit that the way the Dalmatian looks is what really attracted me to the breed. They are absolutely gorgeous and their coats are very soft. I also liked that they were athletic, silly and loving. When I went to get my puppy, he was actually the least attractive of the 4 puppies left. He also was double patched having 2 solid black ears, I didn't really care for that but his personality is what won me over. It didn't take me long to realize that he is actually quite gorgeous and he has a fantastic/fun/loving/happy personality.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I will admit I picked little dex because he looked like the border collie from babe. That being said I also was border collie prepared and knew exactly what we were up against in terms of training and exercise. Shiggies Lamarre was picked bc she needed a home and was a good girl not because she was an epic beauty queen. . Ty had looks and attitude and he just happened to never leave lol

Human beings are complex creatures. We all know what floats our boat  I know people that love the look of doodles, or hideous guess purses but I will stick with my GSD's and MK bags lol.

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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Infact I read an article once that claimed ugly babies were less likely to be put into there car seat properly and belted then good looming babies. How sick is that? 

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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Athena'sMom said:


> Looks are not everything! When I got my girl Athena she was the last puppy left in her litter and she had no fur on her nose due to rough play with litter mates. It was unknown if her fur would grow back but her personality grabbed me. She was so bubbly and happy! The breeder and I spoke for over an hour about this girls amazing personality, temperament and drive. She may have been the "ugly duckling" but Athena turned into a stunning swan. Wouldn't trade her for all the money in the world! Best decision I ever made!





She's beautiful!!!!!!
Actually, I have a cat with a broken back and funny looking back legs and she's not the prettiest. So I guess there's more to it than looks. 




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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Infact I read an article once that claimed ugly babies were less likely to be put into there car seat properly and belted then good looming babies. How sick is that?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Omg. I hope this isn't true. IMO looks do play a part when you first meet but after that, once you get to know person/animal, looks fade away, you sometimes don't even notice them. 

Or, I had a friend who was really pretty. She had the exotic beauty, really pretty girl. After a few months, once I got to know her, she became ugly. I looked at her and saw an ugly girl. 


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I think something is quite wrong with you if you allow a dog’s color to affect the bond with it. Like…at the end of the day, it’s more than likely a very cute dog, rarely, if ever do I see an ugly dog.

I think part of this discussion is different lines…and if you throw that in it, then sure, I don’t like the look of certain lines. But at the end of the day, if you give me a working line, it could be all colors of the rainbow and I wouldn’t care. I’m not partial to SL dogs (both types) and would never even consider a breeder of those lines, so that completely rules out the way those dogs look. But I train with some WGSL dogs that I think are very beautiful and I don’t think I’d have any problem not bonding with them just because of their look.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

appearance played nothing in either of my dog's selection.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I'll pick appearance last over temperament, health, drive, and sometimes even gender. Color makes no difference to me. When I got Carma I was looking for a black and tan, stock coat male, and ended up with a sable, long coat female because she had the best of every other quality that I was looking for.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Martemchik, if somehow a working line breeder produced a dog that looked excel like a SL, would you take it? So it's a WL dog that looks like SL. Would you?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

lalachka said:


> Martemchik, if somehow a working line breeder produced a dog that looked excel like a SL, would you take it? So it's a WL dog that looks like SL. Would you?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Absolutely.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Absolutely.



Interesting. Even though you said don't like their look?
Or you're just saying this because you know you'd never actually have to make this choice)))))))



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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Hunter and gator, you're both better people than me)))))
I chose my dog from a picture on a website. I didn't know there was anything else to them besides looks)))))

Now I do and I'm interested to see how I will pick my next one. 


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

lalachka said:


> Interesting. Even though you said don't like their look?
> Or you're just saying this because you know you'd never actually have to make this choice)))))))
> 
> 
> ...


I shouldn't have said I "don't like" more like I prefer one over the other. At the end of the day, a dog is a dog, and I'll love it just the same.

The thing is, I look for a breeder based off of all the other stuff, and if all the other stuff lines up and the only breeder happens to be one where the dogs don't look 100% the way I prefer, I wouldn't care. But like you said, it's unlikely to happen because the things I look for in the temperament of the dog, lead me to the type of dog that I prefer looks wise as well.

I really don't care about the labels, the looks, the colors, everything else that people use to market their dogs. DDR, Czech, West German, ect. None of that matters. Each dog is its own animal.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Here’s the thing…most people answering have different standards for what they need out of a dog than you do at this point in your life. You’re training a pet, as long as the dog is normal in regular life, you could care less about certain temperament/work traits. So to you, the look is important because in theory you can get what you want from a dog out of a wide variety of not just dogs, but breeds. It’s understandable, a lot of people are like that. If all you want in life is a great companion, that doesn’t bite people, will bark at the door, and will go out on a walk with you and play fetch when you ask, there are tons of options.

But when you start looking for a dog that can do more than that. A dog that will get you higher scores at your club trial, or a dog that can take you to nationals. Most people don’t care what it looks like because the temperament and drive that is needed for that type of stuff is much harder to find than good looks.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

In my 20s I was convinced I wanted an Afghan Hound. I loved the way they looked. Then a 2 yo that I loved was being given up. I tried to find the 2 yo a home. I did. It was mine. He was with me for 14 years. Did I think of that at the time? Of course not. I just knew I couldn't let him go to the pound and be euthanized.

This 1/2 GSD 1/2 Elk. taught me the beauty of a thinking dog. While I liked the looks of GSDs I loved their brains more. After he & his companion sammy died, I found a GSD X with who knows what pup. She was perfect, too. 

Then a GSD appeared in our back yard, spurting blood from a puncture wound to his neck. That was an expensive dog & it's been GSDs ever since.

Brains before beauty (or I'd probably be with the hound of my 20s) but they've all been beautiful. The GSDs have been long coats, stock coats & other coats. Classic black and tans, a bi-color, different patterns. I suppose in a way I had my color preferences because I like strong colors.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Interesting thread for sure. I'll admit that before I knew an ounce of anything about dogs (temperament, drive, pet, working, etc.) I was a looks girl. I picked Titan because I wanted a large dark GSD. It was between him and another and I picked him because he has more dark on his paws than the other.. then I learned about everything and now I pay more attention to those things. 

When I picked my next pup a Boerboel, I let the breeder pick her for me based on temperament and drive.. and what I wanted her for. I wanted a Brindle or a dark fawn with a dark mask but didn't say anything to her about that because I really wanted the right dog for me. I ended up with a light fawn with virtually no mask and I loved that little girl!!!  

BUT I would be lying if I didn't say looks don't mean anything.. it's too prevailent in our society and it's in our biology to be that way.


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## Madisonmj97 (Mar 10, 2014)

Wow no doubt this was made for me. Like am I on twitter right now?


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

I wouldn't pick a living thing based just on looks. BUT, I want what I want, so I would be willing to wait for the dog that has the right temp, health, drive, AND look that I want.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Madisonmj97 said:


> Wow no doubt this was made for me. Like am I on twitter right now?


No, it was not made for you. Lalachka often starts threads based on something that caught her attention in another thread because she wants further knowledge.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Madisonmj97 said:


> Wow no doubt this was made for me. Like am I on twitter right now?


Yeah, not for you. We've discussed this in a separate thread started by lalachka as well.


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## Madisonmj97 (Mar 10, 2014)

Gotcha


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Madisonmj97 said:


> Gotcha



It wasn't started FOR you. As someone said, I read your thread, that got me thinking)))))) lol never a good thing



Martemchik, so it's a progression in a way. You start off with going by looks because you usually don't know much about the breed and the looks and the reputation attracts you. 

Then you have the dog, learn, realize there are other things to do with it (lol remember you said I might do ipo. What do you know, I might join a club. I doubt i'd ever go beyond training for it but who knows) and your next dog is picked in a different way all together. 




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## Madisonmj97 (Mar 10, 2014)

Why do ppl get Pitts then? A dog to me is a dog, a friend, family, and sometimes to me my therapist hahaha. So there for I see no point in looking that deep into a breeds temperament and what not. I know GSD are loyal, most I the ones I've had are very affectionate, protective, somewhat active, independent, all that good stuff. And tbh that's all I really need to know. It's doesn't take rocket science to raise/take care/train a dog or ppl would not have that many pittbulls.


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

I've always had GSD or GSD mixes in my life. Growing up, that's all we had and when I think of getting a puppy, I instictively want some sort of shepherd. When my hubby and I decided to get a puppy a few years ago, we adopted a puppy that was pronounced as a "Malinois mix" by the SPCA. As she's grown up, she's turned into a very GSD looking dog, and a very pretty girl indeed. Now we've bough a WGSL puppy who will come home with us in about 4 weeks.

I've always been partial to blacks or bi-colours, and love the look and temperament of WL, but we went with black and red or tan SL because we found a breeder within driving distance (about 6 hrs, round trip) who seems to be working with good lines, lines that have a temperament that we like. All the WL dogs are 9+ hour drive away (18+ round trip), and we feel like we're too new to this process of choosing a breeder to drive that far and maybe be disappointed. (We had found what we thought was a great breeder, went to visit (a 7 hr round trip) to meet the parents, and found that the breeder had totally misrepresented her dogs. Either that or we had misunderstood what she was breeding.)

Lol, all that said, I think that even though the WGSL may not be my first choice, looks-wise, once I get to know my puppy I will think he's beautiful. I have always thought my dogs were beautiful, even if maybe someone else might not think so.


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

By the way, Lalachka, I like the way you think! I've read a few of your threads and I always learn something. Lol, I'm usually more of a lurker than a participator.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I do not pick simply based on color but I spend a lot of time evaluating conformation and structure and it is very important to me. Other than one puppy that was picked for me ahead of time (but I could have turned down if I didn't like the conformation), I've picked my puppies with the breeder and often the choice between the last two came down to structure. It's very important to me as I train and compete in a lot of sports. Conformation is not just aesthetics.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

lalachka said:


> Martemchik, so it's a progression in a way. You start off with going by looks because you usually don't know much about the breed and the looks and the reputation attracts you.
> 
> Then you have the dog, learn, realize there are other things to do with it (lol remember you said I might do ipo. What do you know, I might join a club. I doubt i'd ever go beyond training for it but who knows) and your next dog is picked in a different way all together.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I did the research and figured out the lines mostly based on looks. Didn't really understand what all the buzz words we love to use meant, but I knew they were important to me.

I think it's fine if you look at it as a progression, and that you'll figure out more with the first dog and then other things become important to you. I'm sure that's how most people got into this game and have figured out what's more important.

The more you figure out about a breed, and your own dog, the more important certain things get.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Madisonmj97 said:


> Why do ppl get Pitts then? A dog to me is a dog, a friend, family, and sometimes to me my therapist hahaha. So there for I see no point in looking that deep into a breeds temperament and what not. I know GSD are loyal, most I the ones I've had are very affectionate, protective, somewhat active, independent, all that good stuff. And tbh that's all I really need to know. It's doesn't take rocket science to raise/take care/train a dog or ppl would not have that many pittbulls.


It's still important to research the dog you want to make sure it is a god fit for your family and lifestyle. I can't even count how many people I have come across who got a GSD because "it's smart, loyal, energetic, and the perfect family dog!" who ended up dumping it six months later because they picked a dog based on generalizations and didn't know what they had actually gotten themselves into.

It's even more important to a breed like the GSD because you usually don't realize until you research that picking up a backyard bred dog can land you with a fearful, nervy basket case. I've had clients with perfectly well-raised dogs with near perfect socialization that I still had to help rehabilitate because they were just off in the head. There are two in boarding right now that can only be handled by me and the owners, through no fault of the owners, but just because they are extremely poorly bred fear biters.

And people get pits for several reasons - because they have researched and decided they wanted a pit, they picked up a cute puppy at the shelter that happened to be a pit, they want a status symbol, they've been fed some ridiculous propaganda that pits are super easy dogs and the breed doesn't have any problems. Plus there are plenty of people that say they have a pit because it looks pit-ish, but just ended up with a mix breed of some kind.

Even with a pit it is important to research because they are prone to dog aggression, are highly energetic dogs, and are not right for all families. But many many people end up with them because they make opinions based on the loads of propaganda and generalization out there instead of actually doing unbiased research on the breed.

While it is generally not rocket science to take care of a dog, it is very common for people to get dogs and apply no common sense to what they get or what kinds of problems they may face. That, coupled with the disposable trend of society today means that I come across clients who want to give up their puppies and dogs of all kinds for things ranging from being too hyper (too much energy), too destructive (needs training), on up to just plain aggressive (not a proper fit for the family's skill level). 

Millions of dogs are euthanized every single year. THAT is why it is important to research the dog you want instead of just impulse buying it like you would a toy for a child. Because otherwise, I watch dogs die going to the needle simply because the family was not willing or not able to meet its needs.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Madisonmj97 said:


> Why do ppl get Pitts then? A dog to me is a dog, a friend, family, and sometimes to me my therapist hahaha. So there for I see no point in looking that deep into a breeds temperament and what not. I know GSD are loyal, most I the ones I've had are very affectionate, protective, somewhat active, independent, all that good stuff. And tbh that's all I really need to know. It's doesn't take rocket science to raise/take care/train a dog or ppl would not have that many pittbulls.


The more you learn about the breed, and the more involved you might become, the more you realize how other things matter more than others. At the end of the day, everything you listed (loyal, affectionate, protective, active, independent) can be said about many breeds. So when you look at why John Q. Public owns a dog...it's probably got everything to do with how a breed looks. But on this forum, you run into breed enthusiasts and people that actually use the dog's natural ability in a wide variety of sports. Some of those sports...our breed is better at than any other in the world, other's, other breeds are better. But that's why the people involved in those sports care way more about temperament than they do the look.

A pitbull, GSD, lab, golden, boston terrier, ect, will provide MOST people with what they look for in a dog. Many people just purchase the one they want based off of what they see and how they want others to perceive their dog and to a certain point their status in society. Most people could care less what breeds are naturally bred to do...most people actually don't understand that dogs are bred to do certain things, they think its all training.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

lalachka said:


> What if you found a dog that's perfect in every way but looks wise is not your type.
> 
> I'm not sure what i'd do. Hopefully take him anyway))))))
> 
> ...


Then I might have a bulldog or a pug; however I dislike their looks. But once I know one of these I tend to look passed their looks and see them as individuals. Weird how that works. Looks are skin deep.

But nothing, nothing beats the look of a young, healthy GSD (mine!!)


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Madisonmj97 said:


> Why do ppl get Pitts then? A dog to me is a dog, a friend, family, and sometimes to me my therapist hahaha. So there for I see no point in looking that deep into a breeds temperament and what not. I know GSD are loyal, most I the ones I've had are very affectionate, protective, somewhat active, independent, all that good stuff. And tbh that's all I really need to know. It's doesn't take rocket science to raise/take care/train a dog or ppl would not have that many pittbulls.


Oh dear.. well there is quite a lot of reason to research a dog.. and I won't entirely repeat what the others have said. BUT it isn't all about getting one form the pound or a breeder and POOF it bonds and settle perfectly in yoru little world. Sure people luck out, or have itty bitty dogs that "aren't agressive" because they are so little it's more of a nuisance than actual harm done. 

Why do you think there are so many of those ridiculous quizzes about which dog fits your lifestyle??? It's not enough to want a dog and want to care for it. Your life would be miserable if you had a high energy/high drive, working line of any breed and all you wanted to do was feed it and love on it. It really does matter. Sometimes you don't do the research(exhibit A, me) and you end up with the perfect dog for you anyways. If you are a calm mannered, not active person and you want a dog that can jsut keep you company, you wouldn't get a Mal.. why? because that type of dog wouldn't do well in that environment.. but you wouldn't know that unless you researched the breed, not just how to take care of a dog.. keeping a dog alive doesn't mean your dog fits in your lifestyle and is fullfilled living with you. 

Also, what in the world does that have to do with pits? Have you ever done research on the breeed itself? not what you read about in the news or stories you hear from others? They are great family dogs with energy for an active family. However, they do have other dog aggression if not socialized and brought up properly. While there are the other reasons (status, looks, aggression, etc.) that uneducated people get them.. there are those that research, find a reputable breeder and get them for a purpose.

Not trying to be hostile and mean but it does matter. That attitude you have "it's not rocket science to own a dog" is why there are so many dogs in shelters.


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> Then I might have a bulldog or a pug; however I dislike their looks. But once I know one of these I tend to look passed their looks and see them as individuals. Weird how that works. Looks are skin deep.
> 
> But nothing, nothing beats the look of a young, healthy GSD (mine!!)


:thumbup: This!


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

I think I'm attracted to misunderstood breeds. My last dog was a boxer/pit mix, IMHO he was a good looking dog and for me he was everything I needed in a first dog. He and I had a bond I'll never be able to explain. That being said he was a rescue, a rescue that most likely missed out on all that important socialization as a puppy. He lived in constant fear, not the shut down kind, the easily startled, not sure about strangers kind. He also had terrible genetics, getting a mast cell tumor at 2 and dying of lymphoma at 4 (it's very likely he genetics played a role in his fear issues)...however I was more than willing to take the good with the bad. I love that dog and I miss him everyday. The cards he was deal were not fair. I will always rescue but I knew in my next dog I wanted to roll a dice with better odds.

And I have a chihuahua. I wanted to prove they aren't all yappy annoying ankle biters. And Lincoln proves that every single day. The sweetest little chihuahua you'll ever meet!


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

McWeagle said:


> By the way, Lalachka, I like the way you think! I've read a few of your threads and I always learn something. Lol, I'm usually more of a lurker than a participator.



Thank you))))) 


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Then I might have a bulldog or a pug; however I dislike their looks. But once I know one of these I tend to look passed their looks and see them as individuals. Weird how that works. Looks are skin deep.
> 
> But nothing, nothing beats the look of a young, healthy GSD (mine!!)



Yep, looks only help the original attraction but after a while you start to look past it. 

Some people started liking gsds after the rescued them (accident, didn't want a certain breed). I think you bond with the dog itself and begin to cherish everything about them. 

My dog has many imperfections and I love them all. 


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Madisonmj97 said:


> I know GSD are loyal, most I the ones I've had are very affectionate, protective, somewhat active, independent, all that good stuff.



Gsds are somewhat active lol? So which breed is really active then?


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## Madisonmj97 (Mar 10, 2014)

lalachka said:


> Gsds are somewhat active lol? So which breed is really active then?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Try a jack russle or a aussie, or grey hound. Use your imagination. They can be lazy dogs tbh. But can be very active when you want them to be


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Madisonmj97 said:


> Try a jack russle or a aussie, or grey hound. Use your imagination. They can be lazy dogs tbh. But can be very active when you want them to be



I don't know breeds well so I can't imagine anything. I just know that gsds are more active and need more exercise than some breeds so I was wondering why you said 'somewhat active'. 


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## Madisonmj97 (Mar 10, 2014)

lalachka said:


> I don't know breeds well so I can't imagine anything. I just know that gsds are more active and need more exercise than some breeds so I was wondering why you said 'somewhat active'.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Cause they can live in apartments.... Unlike a lot of large breed dogs. Most of mine have been lazy.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Madisonmj97 said:


> Cause they can live in apartments.... Unlike a lot of large breed dogs. Most of mine have been lazy.


That can also depend on the individual. The typical backyard bred shepherd that I see is "somewhat active" like you say, but a shepherd bred to actually work would tear a normal dog owner apart. I've seen couch potato Boxers, Jack Russells and the like. I've also seen extremely high energy Bullmastiffs, Bulldogs, and Basset Hounds.

I also see very very many large breed dogs that live in apartments that do perfectly well.

I think you may be making quite a few generalizations.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

lalachka said:


> Gsds are somewhat active lol? So which breed is really active then?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


The activity level really depends on the dog. My working line, and my pound puppy, require daily activity like swimming, chasing a ball, training, or they start torturing the cat. It won't matter where they live. They need that exercise. I've fostered GSD's that were much calmer.

But it's not always about the activity level. It's also about them being able to turn it off when inside. Not all dogs can. Jax can somewhat but not like Seger. 

Boxers are VERY active and will be destructive if not exercised regularly. From what I hear, Greyhounds actually make fantastic house dogs. Small dogs - depends on the dog. Malinois obviously has a much higher activity/energy level. Doberman's can have a nervous energy level as well.

But in the end, it really comes down to the individual dog and the Off Switch.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> The activity level really depends on the dog. My working line, and my pound puppy, require daily activity like swimming, chasing a ball, training, or they start torturing the cat. It won't matter where they live. They need that exercise. I've fostered GSD's that were much calmer.
> 
> But it's not always about the activity level. It's also about them being able to turn it off when inside. Not all dogs can. Jax can somewhat but not like Seger.
> 
> ...



It's def about the off switch but don't they need a few hours of exercise to be able to settle down? It's not like I can keep him inside for 2 days and expect him to be calm. 

Some dogs can. Gsds are an active breed (i'd say). I had to readjust my life pretty drastically to meet his needs. 

I don't think people should get gsds thinking they're 'somewhat active'. I knew almost nothing about them, the level of my knowledge was actually pathetic. But I knew they need lots of training and exercise

I'm saying that to say that even clueless people usually know that. It's like general knowledge. 


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm just a 'pet' owner. I don't need to look for drive, biddability (isn't that trainable, anyway?) or other sports related characteristics. But I do have to look at her physically everyday. Yes, temperament in the sense of shyness, aggression, fear are important. But IMO those can also be trained away.

This is super ignorant of me. When we first got Zeeva I really thought that the standard temperament of a GSD would be exactly what wikipedia and the like stated about them...boy was I wrong...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

lalachka said:


> It's def about the off switch but don't they need a few hours of exercise to be able to settle down? It's not like I can keep him inside for 2 days and expect him to be calm.
> 
> Some dogs can. Gsds are an active breed (i'd say). I had to readjust my life pretty drastically to meet his needs.
> 
> ...


Mine don't. We do some training and then swimming or ball. An hour total? I don't have "a few" hours every day to tire them out. And yes, I can go a couple days without taking them out and they are just fine.

German Shepherds ARE an active breed. Not somewhat active...they are active. However, depending on the breeding, not all of them are. Some are just couch potatoes and happy there. A working line? Yeah...they are active. LOL


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Zeeva said:


> I'm just a 'pet' owner. I don't need to look for drive, biddability (isn't that trainable, anyway?) or other sports related characteristics. But I do have to look at her physically everyday. Yes, temperament in the sense of shyness, aggression, fear are important. But IMO those can also be trained away.
> 
> 
> 
> This is super ignorant of me. When we first got Zeeva I really thought that the standard temperament of a GSD would be exactly what wikipedia and the like stated about them...boy was I wrong...




I agree with lots of it but temperament can't be trained away. It can be managed and trained away to a degree but issues will never go away completely. If a dog is fear aggressive there's always the potential for something to set him off. 

That goes for any dog, they're animals. But if a dog bit a kid and then was rehabilitated it doesn't mean he's cured. He's still dangerous around kids. This is oversimplified. 


Also, what's biddability? I thought that meant how trainable they are. 


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Zeeva said:


> I'm just a 'pet' owner. I don't need to look for drive, biddability (isn't that trainable, anyway?) or other sports related characteristics. But I do have to look at her physically everyday. Yes, temperament in the sense of shyness, aggression, fear are important. But IMO those can also be trained away.
> 
> This is super ignorant of me. When we first got Zeeva I really thought that the standard temperament of a GSD would be exactly what wikipedia and the like stated about them...boy was I wrong...


I haven't been keeping up with your updates...but I know you had some of those issues with your dogs. Have they been "trained away?" 

It should also not be expected that you have to train those types of issues away. A dog should be solid, period. No need to socialize him in every environment he'll ever run into, or work him on every surface he might have to walk over in life. A dog should just go through life without worries and without those issues.

A lot of your ideas on what is trainable, isn't realistic. You can nurture certain traits out of a dog, or destroy those traits. But if a dog doesn't have drive, you can't teach it drive. Most dogs have a limit to the amount of drive they have, you can either take them there, or you can not allow them to get there. But at the end of the day, you won't be able to bring more drive out of a dog than it naturally has. Same with biddability and things of that nature.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

lalachka said:


> I agree with lots of it but temperament can't be trained away. It can be managed and trained away to a degree but issues will never go away completely. If a dog is fear aggressive there's always the potential for something to set him off.


Agreed



lalachka said:


> That goes for any dog, they're animals. But if a dog bit a kid and then was rehabilitated it doesn't mean he's cured. He's still dangerous around kids. This is oversimplified.


Wait...why did the dog bite the kid? I always want to know why before I make a statement such as this.




lalachka said:


> Also, what's biddability? I thought that meant how trainable they are.


Biddability is the dogs desire to please you and work with you. Yes, in a way it means how trainable they are but it's more about how trainable they WANT to be.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> Mine don't. We do some training and then swimming or ball. An hour total? I don't have "a few" hours every day to tire them out. And yes, I can go a couple days without taking them out and they are just fine.
> 
> German Shepherds ARE an active breed. Not somewhat active...they are active. However, depending on the breeding, not all of them are. Some are just couch potatoes and happy there. A working line? Yeah...they are active. LOL



My next dog will be a working line. I'd love to compare and see whether mine is a couch potato. 

He's not that needy, i just feel bad unless I take him out every day for 2 hours. If I go for an hour - I get upset at myself. I aim for 2-3. 

The rest of the day he's in the house laying down. I guess he's a couch potato))))) us going out is nothing crazy physical either. Some running, some tugging, some training. 


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

martemchik said:


> I haven't been keeping up with your updates...but I know you had some of those issues with your dogs. Have they been "trained away?"
> 
> It should also not be expected that you have to train those types of issues away. A dog should be solid, period. No need to socialize him in every environment he'll ever run into, or work him on every surface he might have to walk over in life. A dog should just go through life without worries and without those issues.
> 
> A lot of your ideas on what is trainable, isn't realistic. You can nurture certain traits out of a dog, or destroy those traits. But if a dog doesn't have drive, you can't teach it drive. Most dogs have a limit to the amount of drive they have, you can either take them there, or you can not allow them to get there. But at the end of the day, you won't be able to bring more drive out of a dog than it naturally has. Same with biddability and things of that nature.


You are right.

But if everyone looked for the perfect temperament dog what would happen to those that aren't perfect...?

No, our issues haven't been 'trained away' but they are under control enough to be managed now C: I guess that's what I should've said...


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> Agreed
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In my example it's unprovoked bites. A dog that bit a few people, including kids and was rehabilitated. Let's say he was in the wrong family for that dog, it happens. Now he's with the right family and doesn't bite anymore. I'd never completely trust that dog. 

Nice to know, then I have a biddable dog))))) a few trainers told me he's eager to please and a good dog. I love him))))) he's really amazing


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Zeeva said:


> But if everyone looked for the perfect temperament dog what would happen to those that aren't perfect...?



Interesting point))))


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## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

My first GSD was more or less based on looks. I wanted a black and red dog so I got a WGSL. But as I started to get more into Schutzhund I realized I needed something different then what I had so when I started searching for the next dog, looks did not even make the list of "wants".


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

DinoBlue said:


> My first GSD was more or less based on looks. I wanted a black and red dog so I got a WGSL. But as I started to get more into Schutzhund I realized I needed something different then what I had so when I started searching for the next dog, looks did not even make the list of "wants".



I have a feeling this is exactly what will happen to me. I don't know if looks will ever completely disappear from my list, I don't see myself getting into any sport so seriously that the dog will stop being a pet first. But who knows

Anyway, already, looks for me have shifted behind sex,health and temperament. Lol for now I want a boy. Let's see if that changes 


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

As I can gather.. Madisonmj97.. should be ignored in this thread. No valuable information is coming from them and they seem to just be trolling... trying to stir things up..

I do believe that certain traits are trainable but when it gets to down right temperament and traits from certain breeds. Like an english bull dog is VERY different in temperament than a Mal or Dane.. knowing that comes with research.. As far as looks go, I don't think it is wrong to value the way your dog looks at all, only if that is all that is being looked at when picking a puppy or a dog at a shelter. "oh this dog looks handsome, but wants to eat my face... I'm take him!" that's a little much. The problem lies when people assume every dog has the same temperament if you just feed them and love them and that's just not the case.


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## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

lalachka said:


> I have a feeling this is exactly what will happen to me. I don't know if looks will ever completely disappear from my list, I don't see myself getting into any sport so seriously that the dog will stop being a pet first. But who knows
> 
> Anyway, already, looks for me have shifted behind sex,health and temperament. Lol for now I want a boy. Let's see if that changes


Things changes as we learn more and figure out our likes and dislikes. Never say never to getting into sport  

Last year I was in the market for a green dog and I really would have loved a nice dark sable male GSD...I ended up with a small female Malinois, not at all what I was looking for but she fit the bill for what I needed.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

wyoung2153 said:


> I do believe that certain traits are trainable but when it gets to down right temperament and traits from certain breeds. Like an english bull dog is VERY different in temperament than a Mal or Dane.. knowing that comes with research.. As far as looks go, I don't think it is wrong to value the way your dog looks at all, only if that is all that is being looked at when picking a puppy or a dog at a shelter. "oh this dog looks handsome, but wants to eat my face... I'm take him!" that's a little much. *The problem lies when people assume every dog has the same temperament if you just feed them and love them and that's just not the case*.


Bravo!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Zeeva said:


> But if everyone looked for the perfect temperament dog what would happen to those that aren't perfect...?


The theory would then be...if everyone looked for the dog that fit their life, and also for proper temperament, you wouldn't have dogs being bred with anything less than what people expect.

As it stands, people look for the looks before the temperament, and so breeders will breed for looks rather than temperament. People also to a certain level just expect a dog to fit their life, even when its natural temperament doesn't. So breeders start breeding dogs that fit today's lifestyles, and then again, temperament is put on the back burner and all that matters is look.

I'm kind of assuming the discussion is more towards buying from a breeder rather than rescuing. If you're giving someone money for a dog, you should expect it to be well balanced, and not just buying it for looks. So if we all expected better temperament from breeders, eventually those breeding for anything less wouldn't be able to keep doing it and would have to step their game up to what the market demands from them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

lalachka said:


> Yeah I said the same thing. Though I use the word 'balls' a lot and I'm a she)))))
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


But, do you say, "break my balls", like in, "crush my testicles"? Most girls don't, not if they think about what they are saying, it just doesn't fit, does it?

Sorry, Zeeva the idea of the thread is a good one. In fact, my first GSD was a bi-color and I was very disappointed. I was expecting Rin Tin Tin, instead I got a drop-ear'd dog that was almost all black, and everyone asked me if it was a lab. 

Then I read that when you pick out a puppy make sure there is a lot of brown on the face and ears, if you want a saddle. So I did that when I picked Arwen. And she was very light when she was full grown. Her saddle was black and her tan was tan not cream or silver, and I did love her looks. But admittedly, my first couple of dogs, color and looks were higher on my priority list than some more important things. 

I like black and brown dogs. Sorry. I wouldn't pick the sables, solid color dogs, bi-colors. The thing is, there are enough pups out there that we can find what we are looking for in the packaging we want most of the time, at least if it is typical for your lines. I mean if you want German Showlines in sable, well, you might be out of luck. But if you want American lines, you can hold out for the coloring you want matched up with the personality you desire. 

If I am following a dog and want a pup out of that dog, and a litter is born, temperament is definitely first and aesthetics down the line. But I think you have to reach a certain point in your journey to arrive where looks land where they should on the list of wants. 

If my dogs were doing the choosing, the would probably want someone a bit thinner and fitter, and probably younger-looking. Glad dogs know better than we do about some stuff.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

wyoung2153 said:


> The problem lies when people assume every dog has the same temperament if you just feed them and love them and that's just not the case.



I was the idiot that used to say that

Now I know genetics play a role but I still can't help but blame owners most of the time (myself included)


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## ZoeD1217 (Feb 7, 2014)

Zeeva said:


> I'm just a 'pet' owner. I don't need to look for drive, biddability (isn't that trainable, anyway?) or other sports related characteristics. But I do have to look at her physically everyday. Yes, temperament in the sense of shyness, aggression, fear are important. But IMO those can also be trained away.
> 
> This is super ignorant of me. When we first got Zeeva I really thought that the standard temperament of a GSD would be exactly what wikipedia and the like stated about them...boy was I wrong...


Haha!! You just described me looking for a dog perfectly. I "looked up" many different dogs on different sites and they always pretty much said the same thing. GSD are intelligent, easy to train, loyal and make great family pets. Everything I wanted! I also wanted a large dog bc of the kids and I think I'd always be scared of someone stepping on and hurting a small dog. Anyway, I ended having so many questions that's how I ended up on the forum and realized I'd done everything wrong. Down to picking her out of the paper and picking her up at 6 weeks. 

So my original comment should be amended to say that anyone on this forum should be knowledgeable enough to not go on appearance alone. That's my opinion anyway. If (big if) I were to ever get another gsd (or any dog for that matter) I will do more digging before making a decision. And I definitely will wait to pick pup up at 8 weeks. 

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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

lalachka said:


> It's def about the off switch but don't they need a few hours of exercise to be able to settle down? It's not like I can keep him inside for 2 days and expect him to be calm.
> 
> Some dogs can. Gsds are an active breed (i'd say). I had to readjust my life pretty drastically to meet his needs.
> 
> ...


My working line is perfectly fine without exercise for a couple of days. We don't even own a crate. He has free rein of the house and doesn't destroy anything. His normal exercise is 2 sessions of fetch so 30 minutes a day. 

Who the heck has time to exercise their dogs a couple of hours per day and still have a life?


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

DinoBlue said:


> Things changes as we learn more and figure out our likes and dislikes. Never say never to getting into sport
> 
> Last year I was in the market for a green dog and I really would have loved a nice dark sable male GSD...I ended up with a small female Malinois, not at all what I was looking for but she fit the bill for what I needed.



Never say never for anything))))) but i'd say this, if I ever get into sport, especially so seriously that the dog will be a sport prospect first and a pet second I will be very surprised. 

Then again I'm already very surprised at everything I've done since I got my dog. Will wait and see))))

Lol at your last part


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

simba405 said:


> My working line is perfectly fine without exercise for a couple of days. We don't even own a crate. He has free rein of the house and doesn't destroy anything. His normal exercise is 2 sessions of fetch so 30 minutes a day.
> 
> Who the heck has time to exercise their dogs a couple of hours per day and still have a life?



I made the time. I'm OK with no life. I had a life when I wanted it. Now he's my life


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

lalachka said:


> I made the time. I'm OK with no life. I had a life when I wanted it. Now he's my life
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I think the point was that the dog shouldn't need that much exercise to calm them down enough to settle in the house.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

lalachka said:


> I made the time. I'm OK with no life. I had a life when I wanted it. Now he's my life
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


It's not about you. It's about the point that you think german shepherds need all this exercise to be calm. You're just completely wrong.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

lalachka said:


> I was the idiot that used to say that
> 
> Now I know genetics play a role but I still can't help but blame owners most of the time (myself included)
> 
> ...


Me too!!! I was that person too! The good news is that we did educate ourselves and we can now educate others on this. So many times I have intervened in my work center when people talk about dogs and have been able to help make a decision or at least give them another option for what they are looking for. 



martemchik said:


> The theory would then be...if everyone looked for the dog that fit their life, and also for proper temperament, you wouldn't have dogs being bred with anything less than what people expect.


This is exactly it! People breed for demand, if people cared about temperament more, they would breed for that.. as with any type of market in life.. you make profit off what majority of people want, not off what is actually the best option.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

simba405 said:


> It's not about you. It's about the point that you think german shepherds need all this exercise to be calm. You're just completely wrong.



And IMO you're completely wrong that they're OK with 30 mins of fetch a day. So I stay with my opinion and you stay with yours. 


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> I think the point was that the dog shouldn't need that much exercise to calm them down enough to settle in the house.



I don't know if I agree. So an hour a day and 23 hours on the couch? I'd say my 2-3 hours are not enough. 


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Who said they are on the couch for 23 hours? You are putting words in my mouth. 

They are outside with me when I'm outside, following me thru the house when I move. They don't spend 1 hour playing and 23 hours sleeping.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

simba405 said:


> It's not about you. It's about the point that you think german shepherds need all this exercise to be calm. You're just completely wrong.


Well I don't think it's entirely off the mark. That is truly based of the dog and genetics. Some may be fine in the house for a few days and no exercise.. Titan would drive me utterly insane. He's ok on occasion if there's a need (like the flooding early this year) and we find other ways to stimulate him, but he does not settle well without some sort of intense daily exercise. So for us, I would say yes, Titan, my GSD, needs a ton of exercise to be truly calm.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

lalachka said:


> Never say never for anything))))) but i'd say this, if I ever get into sport, especially so seriously that the dog will be a sport prospect first and a pet second I will be very surprised.


Nah, don't think of it that way. I'm sure your dog will always be a pet first. But the point is, that the temperament needed for that sport will become more important than having the right color.

The way it usually works is that you'll get into sport, meet a lot of people that are successful in that sport, realize they breed dogs, and get one from them. By that time, you probably think their dogs are beautiful anyways and will fit exactly what you want. Now, the dog is still purchased as a pet, but now with the added bonus that you know the dog can do the work.

All I'd ask from people is to go out and see a sport. Watch a dog do what its meant to do. You'll realize quickly why beauty doesn't matter. How cool it is to watch a dog run through an agility course, or watch a dog happily prance through an obedience routine, and of course, nothing better than watching a dog hit a helper full go on a courage test...then see other dogs do it that aren't that fast, aren't that interested, or clearly show some apprehension doing the handler's chosen sport. You'll recognize it really quickly and understand why the temperament/attitude of a dog is more important and will lead you to bond to a dog much better than any pretty face.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> Who said they are on the couch for 23 hours? You are putting words in my mouth.
> 
> They are outside with me when I'm outside, following me thru the house when I move. They don't spend 1 hour playing and 23 hours sleeping.



I'm not pitting words in your mouth. I wasn't even talking about you. My dog follows me around the house too, I don't consider that exercise. I don't even consider walking the streets as exercise. Unless I take him outside he's inside. Inside in an apartment there's no exercise. So if I took him out for an hour or less a day then he'd spend 23 hours on a figurative couch


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

lalachka said:


> I don't know if I agree. So an hour a day and 23 hours on the couch? I'd say my 2-3 hours are not enough.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Sounds like you have a bad dog with no off switch if 3 hours isn't enough.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

It also does depend the type of exercise.. Lalachka.. what are you doing for those 2-3 hours?


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

simba405 said:


> My working line is perfectly fine without exercise for a couple of days. We don't even own a crate. He has free rein of the house and doesn't destroy anything. His normal exercise is 2 sessions of fetch so 30 minutes a day.
> 
> Who the heck has time to exercise their dogs a couple of hours per day and still have a life?


Same here! I'm not really one to do two solid hours of exercise a day!  If I ask mine to go, he can be a firecracker, but he definitely has a couch potato side, especially in the house.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

lalachka said:


> I'm not pitting words in your mouth. I wasn't even talking about you.



ummm..you quoted me. If you don't want a response from people then don't quote them.

Off...training my dog. It tires him out.


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## Darth_Ariel (Jun 20, 2013)

I didn't do enough research initially to even know GSDs came in more than the typical black and tan saddles. Granted I also wasn't looking for a puppy at the time and just fell in love with the puppy who walked up to me and happened to be a breed I'd loved since I was a kid. 

Now I would be looking at health and temperament before color, but still have a preference for dogs that have a lot of black in their coats. I wouldn't pick the dog on that alone however. 
I learned about drive the hard way. I had no idea there were different levels of drive upon initially getting Vader and ended up with a dog that doesn't know how to sit still.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

wyoung2153 said:


> It also does depend the type of exercise.. Lalachka.. what are you doing for those 2-3 hours?


not much really, jsut stay out. i feel guilty having him cooped up all day.
he runs for 10-20-30 mins, we tug, we train, play, whatever i can think of. he goes lff to sniff, i sit and pet him. just spend time with him outside.

the rest of the time he's locked in my small bedroom, he doesn't even have the run of the house because of the cats. so i think it's mean to not take him out for as long as i can handle.


he doesn't destroy anything, he's actually really good. but i always go off the assumption that he needs a lot. i'd rather give him more than not enough


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Pax8 said:


> Same here! I'm not really one to do two solid hours of exercise a day!  If I ask mine to go, he can be a firecracker, but he definitely has a couch potato side, especially in the house.


LUCKY! lol. While Titan was taught how to have an off switch.. he is no couch potato.. he lives to play and exercise.. while I don't do heavy 1-2 hour sessions.. I'd say that between mental and physical exercise, we go about 2 hours a day total.. and it all depends on what we choose for exercise and time of year. Now, 15 minutes of fetch a few times a day is exhausting for him because of the heat, in the winter, I'd be lucky if he tired at about 30 ish minutes each session.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> ummm..you quoted me. If you don't want a response from people then don't quote them.
> 
> Off...training my dog. It tires him out.


 
?? i wasn't being rude to you, why the attitude? i was replying to you but talking about my dog


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

wyoung2153 said:


> It also does depend the type of exercise.. Lalachka.. what are you doing for those 2-3 hours?


That could be a solid point. When I think of what I have sectioned off as designated exercise time, probably 30-45 minutes throughout the day. But if I count everything that is stimulation then even in my apartment, we'll have games of tug periodically, we'll wrestle around, he may do some random tricks for a treat, we may have a few three or four minute training sessions, he may get a puzzle treat. 

So even though I say he only gets 30-45 minutes of exercise, there is plenty of other stimulation going on. It just may not necessarily happen solely during designated "exercise time".


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

lalachka said:


> not much really, jsut stay out. i feel guilty having him cooped up all day.
> he runs for 10-20-30 mins, we tug, we train, play, whatever i can think of. he goes lff to sniff, i sit and pet him. just spend time with him outside.
> 
> the rest of the time he's locked in my small bedroom, he doesn't even have the run of the house because of the cats. so i think it's mean to not take him out for as long as i can handle.
> ...


This is true but this is also not intense enough exercise to tire a dog out.. I can see why you would say 2-3 hours isn't enough. Running around and sniffing things really isn't doing much for him except getting him out. 

Try a few good games of intense fetch broken up throughout the day (assuming he has no hip or joint issues, I'm talking dead sprinting until he is exhausted) along with the training and mental games. It would probably make a big difference. Even including a 15-20 min run/jog in there daily or every other day.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

simba405 said:


> Sounds like you have a bad dog with no off switch if 3 hours isn't enough.


who said he has no off switch? he does fine when i'm gone, he's not crated and he doesn't destroy anything 

my dog came from a puppy mill, i'm sure he's not the best of the breed.
from the little bit that i knew before i got him i knew they need exercise, training and lots of time. to me 30 mins a day is not enough. it might be enough for my dog - but i don't want to find out. i will continue taking him out for hours.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

wyoung2153 said:


> This is true but this is also not intense enough exercise to tire a dog out.. I can see why you would say 2-3 hours isn't enough. Running around and sniffing things really isn't doing much for him except getting him out.
> 
> Try a few good games of intense fetch broken up throughout the day alogn with the training and mental games. It would probably make a big difference. Even including a 15-20 min run/jog in there daily or every other day.


i think i'm misunderstood. he settles in the house fine, i just think it's mean to have him home all day in my small bedroom. so i try staying out as much as i can. there's no space in my apartment to do anything physical, only some training. so everything i want to do with him has to be done outside


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Man...I've never seen a decent dog owner, that's not making any mistakes, get raked over the coals as much as I just witnessed.

Anyone that's doing the raking want to post their "daily schedule" with their dog so that I can rip it to shreds and tell you how terrible of a dog owner you are because you're not doing what I do?

A person walks their dog 3 hours a day and they get reprimanded for it? Now I've seen everything.


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## Bob_McBob (Nov 15, 2012)

I generally try to walk and/or run 4-5 km every day and do at least two fetch/tug sessions for as long as he wants, plus all the usual daily training sessions. I work from home and can easily make two hours for him every day if necessary. He has no problem if we can't go out for a day or two, aside from being a bit mopey around the house. Unfortunately it's difficult for me to exercise him in the garden because of my neighbours.

Mental stimulation is just as important as physical activity for keeping a dog happy.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Darth_Ariel said:


> I didn't do enough research initially to even know GSDs came in more than the typical black and tan saddles. Granted I also wasn't looking for a puppy at the time and just fell in love with the puppy who walked up to me and happened to be a breed I'd loved since I was a kid.
> 
> Now I would be looking at health and temperament before color, but still have a preference for dogs that have a lot of black in their coats. I wouldn't pick the dog on that alone however.
> I learned about drive the hard way. I had no idea there were different levels of drive upon initially getting Vader and ended up with a dog that doesn't know how to sit still.


lol me too, i like the darker ones


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

lalachka--Aha, I think you are misunderstood. From what you have said it sounded like 2-3 hours isn't enough for him to settle in the house.. Well I can say, I understand you feelings about keeping him inside all day, and that's great that you take him out like that. But you can do many games to occupy him inside. Titan's favorite inside game is "find it." Hid a toy or treat and have him look for it. After a while you can get all kinds of complicated and make him work the problems out. That and there are mind games and puzzles you can buy for them too. Does he like bones? That's always a good option when inside too. Try not to humanize him so much... not that he doesn't need to go outside to play but it's ok for him to be in with you.. he doesn't resent you like a child might if you keep him inside because he is a dog.. and they adapt.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

martemchik said:


> Man...I've never seen a decent dog owner, that's not making any mistakes, get raked over the coals as much as I just witnessed.
> 
> Anyone that's doing the raking want to post their "daily schedule" with their dog so that I can rip it to shreds and tell you how terrible of a dog owner you are because you're not doing what I do?
> 
> A person walks their dog 3 hours a day and they get reprimanded for it? Now I've seen everything.


I don't think people are actually ripping this person a new one.. I believe they are trying to understand (which we jsut found out was misunderstood) what is being done for the dog, because it was made out that they were having issues with their dog settling inside. But that's not the case. Even I was just trying to figure out a different method for them to tire their dog out.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

lalachka said:


> i think i'm misunderstood. he settles in the house fine, i just think it's mean to have him home all day in my small bedroom. so i try staying out as much as i can. there's no space in my apartment to do anything physical, only some training. so everything i want to do with him has to be done outside


For what it's worth, I definitely see the importance of taking him out for several hours in your situation, especially if he doesn't have very much space inside. I think the gist of the suggestions wasn't that you were bad for spending time with him, just that it sounds like it's mostly hanging out and maybe more engaging games during outside time can maximize his outdoor experience.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Man...I've never seen a decent dog owner, that's not making any mistakes, get raked over the coals as much as I just witnessed.
> 
> Anyone that's doing the raking want to post their "daily schedule" with their dog so that I can rip it to shreds and tell you how terrible of a dog owner you are because you're not doing what I do?
> 
> A person walks their dog 3 hours a day and they get reprimanded for it? Now I've seen everything.


lol yeah i know. 
i think i'm being judged because i said a dog must have that much time.

but i can't imagine a dog being happy with less than hour spent with their owner. it's not the exercise alone that they need, they need to be with the owners, train, do some work.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

lalachka said:


> but i can't imagine a dog being happy with less than hour spent with their owner. it's not the exercise alone that they need, they need to be with the owners, train, do some work.


And I think people were solely responding to exercise time since that was the topic.. I doubt these people spend one hour a day with their dog period. The subject was exercise.. not the time you are engaging at all with your pup. 

It's awesome you care the much.. I think this whole subject was steered off course, we thought you were talking about one thing, and you did the same.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Bob_McBob said:


> I generally try to walk and/or run 4-5 km every day and do at least two fetch/tug sessions for as long as he wants, plus all the usual daily training sessions. I work from home and can easily make two hours for him every day if necessary. He has no problem if we can't go out for a day or two, aside from being a bit mopey around the house. Unfortunately it's difficult for me to exercise him in the garden because of my neighbours.
> 
> Mental stimulation is just as important as physical activity for keeping a dog happy.


 
you're lucky)))) i get to work from home a few days a month but not every day)))))
yeah, if i'm home then i can take him out in the middle of the day too.
i just can't imagine a dog staying in a room all day alone and being happy with it. and then i come home and take him out for an hour - yeah, i feel guilty. i stay out as long as i can.

totally agree about mental stimulation. i like it when we come home and he knocks out, then i did my job


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

wyoung2153 said:


> And I think people were solely responding to exercise time since that was the topic.. I doubt these people spend one hour a day with their dog period. The subject was exercise.. not the time you are engaging at all with your pup.
> 
> It's awesome you care the much.. I think this whole subject was steered off course, we thought you were talking about one thing, and you did the same.


 
yeah, sorry, back on topic. i meant time spent together. since i'm thinking of my situation it's all lumped together into the 2-3 hours at night. i misspoke


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

lalachka said:


> yeah, sorry, back on topic. i meant time spent together. since i'm thinking of my situation it's all lumped together into the 2-3 hours at night. i misspoke


Makes much more sense now  

I get you and your worry. I often wonder how happy Titan is with our situation but am comforted by the excitement when I get home, and it is what it is. He is alone for about 8-9 hours a day during the week.. with access to the yard if he wishes. we get play time and exercise before and after work.. including training and all that. The rest of the night is usually spent inside, hanging out. If he wants to play we play.

Comfort youself in that dogs are routine and generally adapt easily. he is not upset with you when you can't go play or have a long day at work. he's just happy to be WITH you inside your apt. Even if you aren't playing outside, I'm sure you engage with him constantly even when you don't relaize it.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Anyways, I find that my criteria change very drastically between daydreaming about dogs and seriously looking at getting one.

When I'm daydreaming, I get thoughts of the rotties and bulldogs and other squishy faced dogs I like. I dream about another beautiful long haired shepherd to romp with Kaiju and imagine the new dog being a pretty sable or blanketback.

But when I hackey sack out of dreamland and look seriously at what I want in my next dog, especially wanting to do protection sport with it, what color it is means squat to me if the temperament, personality, and drive is right. It could be puke green for all I care. If it works with me, and works well, I'm going to love that dog to bits.

And to be honest, as much as I like those squishy bulldog faces, that would be a hard headedness contest that would never see an end.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have cleaned up this thread (except for a few minor quotes). Please stay on topic. 

Thank you,

ADMIN Lisa


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Pax8 said:


> And to be honest, as much as I like those squishy bulldog faces, that would be a hard headedness contest that would never see an end.


why? they're hard headed?


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

lalachka said:


> why? they're hard headed?


Bulldogs? I've had far more compliant huskies!


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

@lalachka,
I do realize these articles are dated but this is what i was referring too.



http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/03/health/03ugly.html



Study: Ugly Children Get Shortchanged by Parents | Alas, a Blog


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Pax8 said:


> Bulldogs? I've had far more compliant huskies!


 this is interesting)))) is it off topic to ask about how it's manifested?

my friend has a husky that i see every day, lol, not an easy dog at all)))))


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Pax8 said:


> When I'm daydreaming, I get thoughts of the rotties and bulldogs and other squishy faced dogs I like. I dream about another beautiful long haired shepherd to romp with Kaiju and imagine the new dog being a pretty sable or blanketback.


I have a sable and a blanketback that are great at protection sport!

The sable also carries the blanketback gene, so when puppies are available I'll keep you in mind.

Lucky for us, there are so many good breeders out there that its not out of the question to get a dog with a solid temperament that has the color you want.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> @lalachka,
> I do realize these articles are dated but this is what i was referring too.
> 
> 
> ...


i'm not sure what to say about the study except that there are too many variables but i believe it's possible. h owever, i REALLY enjoyed reading the comments.

that's why i love reading the forums, i love it when someone says something and shines a new light on the discussion and it all seems to make perfect sense until someone else comes along and then they turn it all around and on and on.

i think i'm a pervert of some sort


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

martemchik said:


> I have a sable and a blanketback that are great at protection sport!
> 
> The sable also carries the blanketback gene, so when puppies are available I'll keep you in mind.
> 
> Lucky for us, there are so many good breeders out there that its not out of the question to get a dog with a solid temperament that has the color you want.


Thanks! :wild: I probably won't be in the market for another puppy for another year or two, but I do appreciate it! It sounds like you are a breeder? Would you mind PM'ing me contact info?


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

lalachka said:


> this is interesting)))) is it off topic to ask about how it's manifested?
> 
> my friend has a husky that i see every day, lol, not an easy dog at all)))))


How it's manifested? It's just sort of part of the breed from what I can tell. They were designed to get an idea in mind and hang on to it through **** and high water.

Huskies are definitely independent, but IME if you know how to earn their respect and prove to them it's worth their time to listen, they will listen. Plus they can be stubborn, but if the stand off is boring, I've found that many relent just to get things going again.

Bulldogs have a tendency to decide something is right and just stick with it. I know it's ridiculous, but I think a Bulldog was the only dog that ever made me feel like they were capable of spite.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Pax8 said:


> How it's manifested? It's just sort of part of the breed from what I can tell. They were designed to get an idea in mind and hang on to it through **** and high water.
> 
> Huskies are definitely independent, but IME if you know how to earn their respect and prove to them it's worth their time to listen, they will listen. Plus they can be stubborn, *but if the stand off is boring, I've found that many relent just to get things going again*.
> 
> Bulldogs have a tendency to decide something is right and just stick with it. I know it's ridiculous, but I think a Bulldog was the only dog that ever made me feel like they were capable of spite.


lol, this is cute and possibly true)))))


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

lalachka said:


> ?? i wasn't being rude to you, why the attitude? i was replying to you but talking about my dog


I wasn't giving you attitude. Believe me, if I was giving you attitude there would be no doubt. 

I simply replied to you. You quoted me, I responded, you said you weren't talking to me and I responded that you quoted me. :wild:


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

When I got Eko all of the puppies in the litter looked the same lol. All black with a little brown on their face, so I just picked the male I thought had the best personality. He was the one who ran right up to me and wanted to play 

Then when I was told about Xena all I got was a dark photo of her standing behind a gate, I barely knew what she looked like and to be totally honest at first I thought she was ugly! But we were best friends at first sight it didn't matter. Now that she's grown I've grown to love how she looks. That's how I've picked all of my dogs, I meet the puppies and pick the one I feel that "picked" me. Basically the one that wanted to be around me the most lol. 

Feels like everyone is having and getting puppies, I really really want one now! But I'm forcing myself to wait until Eko is at least 5, maybe older. So a few years at least.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

The only time I've selected an animal based on coat color was when I was looking for barn cats. I wanted white or predominately white, or light-colored coats so they would be easier to see. I was hoping that this might give them a survival edge; we live on a busy road and as much as I love black cats, black cats on a dark road at night are hard to see. We'd lost two black cats to that road. We hoped that motorists would be better able to notice and avoid something more visible.

As it turned out, both my light-colored barn cats disappeared without a trace.  The gray tabby is the only one we still have, so I think my theory was ill-founded. 

I'm not getting any more barn cats. As much as we need rodent control, I can't bear the thought of losing another. I haven't figured out a way to keep them safely on the property if they go outside, so even the one remaining "barn cat" now comes indoors.

Bringing this back to dogs, I can understand color preferences, but I wouldn't choose a dog based on color... unless it came down to choosing between two that were both equally suited.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I personally couldn't take home a dog or cat that I didn't find attractive. Sorry, I know it sounds rude but I would just wait until I found a cat or dog with the personality and looks that I prefer.

With all of the different dog breeds, all of the different colors and coat lengths, all of the animals in rescues and shelters, etc. it should be easy to find something that has the personality and looks that you want.

If I were going through a breeder and they had a puppy that had the personality that I wanted but wasn't a color that I liked or didn't have the coat length that I like, I would pass. A dog can live to be 10-15 years old, I have to look at that dog for a very long time, so I want to get what I like.

But I wouldn't take a puppy that is gorgeous and doesn't have the temperament that I like.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think one can get it 'all', if they are patient and do their homework.

Unfortunately alot of people impulse buy, "look at that cute puppy",,and think everything else will fall into place. Who can resist a puppy?  especially over the net, with all these cute innocent looking pics of gorgeous puppies.

I want good/solid temperament first as well as health,,sure I have my color preferences, but in the long run. In the end, I'd rather have an ugly dog/not my preferred color with solid 'everything', over a gorgeous dog that is dumb as a stump or something that isn't a good match for me.

I do not choose my dogs based on color, tho I do have my preferences..


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Lol I wouldn't want 'dumb as a stump' either)))))))

I guess I want it all, you'd say)))))

Again, I'm glad it's not dogs picking us. Lots of us wouldn't be picked. 


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Sitting here this morning having this exact conversation with a coworker... he wants a shibi because they look cool. He asked where he could get one I told him to do his research on the breed itself and see if it's something he still wants. He was receptive to that. Although, after a long converstation he was still baffled by the idea of so much going into a dog--training, research, health, etc. Asked about breeders and I was explaining the different kinds.. byb and reputable and he didn't understand why byb exist if people actually care about the temprament of the dog.. 

Just found it interesting in the timing since this thread had been a hot topic for the last day or 2.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

wyoung2153 said:


> Sitting here this morning having this exact conversation with a coworker... he wants a shibi because they look cool. He asked where he could get one I told him to do his research on the breed itself and see if it's something he still wants. He was receptive to that. Although, after a long converstation he was still baffled by the idea of so much going into a dog--training, research, health, etc. Asked about breeders and I was explaining the different kinds.. byb and reputable and he didn't understand why byb exist if people actually care about the temprament of the dog..
> 
> Just found it interesting in the timing since this thread had been a hot topic for the last day or 2.



Good point about bybs existing. They exist because most people don't care or don't know enough to care. 


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Honesstly I think it's mostly ignorance.. I truly believe that if more people knew about the importance of good breeders, there would be less byb. I dont' think it would eliminate them by any means.. but I think it would be reduced.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

Good breeders are important in certain breeds. Id absolutely get a lab or golden from a byb


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

wyoung2153 said:


> Honesstly I think it's mostly ignorance.. I truly believe that if more people knew about the importance of good breeders, there would be less byb. I dont' think it would eliminate them by any means.. but I think it would be reduced.



Me too. I just don't want to support it, besides all the other reasons. 


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

simba405 said:


> Good breeders are important in certain breeds. Id absolutely get a lab or golden from a byb



I'd go to a shelter then. For example, I don't care about cats, it's easy for me to pick one. Now, with everything I know, i'd go to a shelter. 

I don't want to support irresponsible breeding. 


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

simba405 said:


> Good breeders are important in certain breeds. I'd absolutely get a lab or golden from a byb


I can agree with that to a point. I do think it is much more important to get certain breeds from a breeder, guard breeds, working breeds, dominant, breeds, etc. I think you can get away with byb for other breeds but still would be better off with a reputable breeder in the long run. 

While this may cause controversy, I see some parallel in getting a dog from a byb and from a shelter in respect to temperament and placing.. you don't know what you are getting into in either case, there is always a low fee regardless, and they don't often do a great job in placing the animals. The difference to me, is obvioulsy the shelter isn't responsible for having the dogs and they are trying to help just get them into a new home. If a byb can't sell their dogs, they will likely end up dead or in a shelter. So in the end you are essentially getting the same dog.. you just aren't financially supporting the ill breeding intentions.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

wyoung2153 said:


> I can agree with that to a point. I do think it is much more important to get certain breeds from a breeder, guard breeds, working breeds, dominant, breeds, etc. I think you can get away with byb for other breeds but still would be better off with a reputable breeder in the long run.


Very true. While there aren't the same issues getting a lab from a byb as there would be a shepherd, generally health is still poor. I could get a super friendly lab from pretty much any byb, but I could almost guarantee those hips are gonna blow out at about 5. 

So it goes back to what you're looking for.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

simba405 said:


> Good breeders are important in certain breeds. Id absolutely get a lab or golden from a byb


Seriously?!?! Why do you think that?

You realize that the highest amount of dog bites have been coming from Goldens in the past few years?

Their temperament has been ruined as well. And there are also working/show lines of those dogs that look way more different than even the working/show lines in the GSD.

They also have terrible hip issues and on many occasions have been called "cancer factories."

Friends of mine that raise puppies for canine companions (SD org) just had a dog returned to them because he was shown to have mild HD. So now they get to keep him for the rest of his life. Not that they care, they love the dog, but it just shows that even some of the most responsible breeding produces problems in that breed.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

martemchik said:


> You realize that the highest amount of dog bites have been coming from Goldens in the past few years?
> 
> Their temperament has been ruined as well. And there are also working/show lines of those dogs that look way more different than even the working/show lines in the GSD.
> 
> ...


So true! I was just talking about this the other day. People don't realize these things.. all they see is pits, GSDs, Dobes, and rots because media doesn't share the rest. It might taint the "family" dog image.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

simba405 said:


> Good breeders are important in certain breeds. Id absolutely get a lab or golden from a byb


Speaking from the point of view of somebody whose parents *did* purchase a GR from a BYB who had to be euthanized before her 4th birthday due to aggression issues this post makes my stomach clench. 

Try explaining to your children ranging from ages 7-15 why your perfectly healthy and happy GR has to be killed because she's unpredictable. Then come back and tell me that their decision to buy that cute cheap puppy was right. My parents felt like utter crap doing that to the family, the next two dogs were labs that came from a reputable breeder who was had a degree in genetics and a long history of healthy and stable dogs 

Any dog regardless of breed can be dangerous


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Shade said:


> Any dog regardless of breed can be dangerous


And any dog regardless of the breed should be bought from a reputable breeder that does health testing and breeds for proper breed temperament and stability.


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## Bob_McBob (Nov 15, 2012)

martemchik said:


> They also have terrible hip issues and on many occasions have been called "cancer factories."


Yep, OFA hip statistics back that up. They're just as bad as GSDs in that regard.


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## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

If forced to state my color preferences, I would rank them as follows: (1) black; (2) bicolor; (3) sable; (4) black and tan. I have two sables . . . . For me, color and "looks" are of lesser importance and would only come into play if everything else was absolutely equal. With my second dog, I knew the breeding would not produce any blacks but other things, including the particular bloodlines, were much more important to me than color. If things other than looks are of importance, you may not be able to find your exact appearance preference. For instance, if you want a solid black showline, you are likely going to have a difficult search. Likewise, there are not too many working line breedings out there that will produce a traditional black and tan saddle. Impose any other requirements, and the search becomes that much more difficult. 

I don't know if I have ever met a good dog that I thought was "ugly" . . . .


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

jmdjack said:


> I don't know if I have ever met a good dog that I thought was "ugly" . . . .



Very good point. At some point iu see them with different eyes. 


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