# Raw Diet - New Pup - help!



## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

I've bought home a 10lb, 7.5 week old GSD on Friday who was being fed IAMs puppy food twice daily at the breeder's kennel. I gave his last kibble feeding on Saturday morning and have feed him raw turkey legs saturday evening and sunday morning with a neck on Sunday night. My concern is he went from nice solid poops to soft poops, even having accidents in his kennel and in the house while he was playing within arms grab of me. I hate going to work tomorrow leaving my wife with a pup with the runs and a baby to take care of so I am wondering if I need to switch back to kibble this week until I take off next week to see him through the transition. 
Here are some of my initial thought on where I went wrong:

1. The total weight of each serving size I gave him was probably slightly under a pound, but that included the bone which he cannot yet crack so he didn't get to keep them after I let him gnaw at them for a while. Am I over feeding him?

2. Maybe he had too much meat since he couldn't get at the bone yet because they were pretty large turkey bones. Should I switch to something like chicken wings that will get more bone into his system to firm up his poos

3. He seemed to be doing well on the Iams with nice firm poops. Maybe my wife and father are right and I should give him the doggone kibble! 

:help::help:Suggestions please!:help::help:


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

Don't panic  I'm no expert, however, I've done well with my pup (who was on Iams also at the breeders). I started with frozen chicken wings, and he was eating every bite of them the 1st day. Turkey necks work well also. Being frozen seemed to help encourage him to crunch up the bone carefully. (Hes 12 weeks now, and eating a wide variety of stuff)
I have personally used a crunched up eggshell to firm up poo, and have read that a spoonful of pumpkin will do the trick well also.
The rawfeeding yahoo group has tons of info, you should go there for more experienced people and lots to learn..
Good luck! Don't give up... raw feeding is fun, and great for your pup!


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

yuricamp said:


> I've bought home a 10lb, 7.5 week old GSD on Friday who was being fed IAMs puppy food twice daily at the breeder's kennel. I gave his last kibble feeding on Saturday morning and have feed him raw turkey legs saturday evening and sunday morning with a neck on Sunday night. My concern is he went from nice solid poops to soft poops, even having accidents in his kennel and in the house while he was playing within arms grab of me. I hate going to work tomorrow leaving my wife with a pup with the runs and a baby to take care of so I am wondering if I need to switch back to kibble this week until I take off next week to see him through the transition.
> Here are some of my initial thought on where I went wrong:
> 
> 1. The total weight of each serving size I gave him was probably slightly under a pound, but that included the bone which he cannot yet crack so he didn't get to keep them after I let him gnaw at them for a while. Am I over feeding him?
> ...


What went wrong is that you don't know what you are doing and you are putting the puppy at great risk, you too down the road with Vet bills.

Put the puppy back on the kibble so it gets consistent nutrition at this very important time. Iams is ok not great but just fine.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it is pretty clear to me you are doing the wrong thing.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Turkey bones are waaay to dense for a young puppy. Please research the diet(there are many threads right here) before you start your pup on raw. 
Chicken is best for a young pup, and necks would be my choice to start along with some meat. 
Please read up though before you begin.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

raw is a good way to go . As others have said turkey bone is too dense , and there was too much meat for a pup this age . Also there is the fact that this pup has had no experience eating raw and the likelihood that his dam , and generations before , did not either, especially since the pup was being fed Iams kibble . The pups digestive system can be prepared by giving it a gruel of chicken which is ground with the bones and some digestive enzyme -probiotic mix ---- kefir is a good choice . 
Chicken necks are good. For a pup that age and size one neck is a good and satisfying feed.
If you don't know what you are doing , there is no shame in that, as there are several good books including the easy to read Kymythy Shultze Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats , plus there are many experienced people on this forum that will give you information and guidance. 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

Is there a way you can grind the turkey? Odin got fed his ground turkey at 9 weeks. He hasn't tried turkey necks nor turkey legs (those are wayyyy too big for a pup).

I agree with the others, start with chicken- ground chicken or chicken wings.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm not a fan of DIY raw feeding for puppies as you can really screw them up with bad nutrition. I would highly recommend you switch back to kibble unless you can get a professional to design his diet for the first year.

That said, I've been feeding turkey necks since the day I got my boy. I did take a hammer to them to help crush them prior feeding for the first several weeks.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

I appreciate the comments. I want to do what is best for my little buddy.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I fed raw for two years and learned along the way, but used Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch for my first source of information. I also like the site A Place for Paws - Columbiana, Ohio - Home as they have informative articles(and sell raw).
As far as I know, the only bones that will grind fairly easily is chicken(most grinders can't handle anything denser) and really, I want my dogs to do their own RMB's. I feel feeding a pre-made ground is not the same as having the dog crunch turkey necks, chicken, and pork necks. It gives them bulk which helps with digestion.
My pup that I started on raw(he was also fed raw w/ his breeder) ate chicken wings, legs, thighs at 8 weeks, I never had to hammer them, either he'd gulp them down or work away at them. Now and then, he'd get constipated if he gulped.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

Any responsible dog owner needs to know what they are feeding their dog. Do the research. Raw is not rocket science. All kibble is not created equal. I decided to spend the better part of 6 months deciding what to feed the puppy I was planning on. I wouldn't have gone with raw if I was not comfortable that I had a firm grasp on how to. I read books, studied everything I could find on the internet, learned TONS about commercial pet foods that I didn't know (and some of which I almost wish I didn't know now:shocked I'm on the yahoo rawfeeding email list...learn things on there almost every day just reading them. I'm a partial traitor however, I feed my cats Taste of the Wild kibble free choice, and put out a raw treat in the evenings for them. 2 prefer kibble only, 1 does better on raw, but will eat the kibble on occasion (he's a real pig  ) Everyone around here is happy and healthy, and I see alot of improvements since I gave up Friskies...and my past dogs that I fed the cheap stuff, 'cause I just didn't know better. It's commendable that folks are here trying to learn to do the best for their animals.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Don't feed raw if you do not know what you are doing. An unbalanced raw diet is much worse then the worst quality kibble for a growing pup. I literally researched raw feeding for a year before I even started. Put your pup back on kibble and do your research. I personally like Dogster.com's raw forum for newbies.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

Again thanks to all for the additional comments. I have gotten a lot of the bad junk food out of my diet and I think it is only sensible to do it for my four-legged companion as well. I put him back onto his kibble for today and tomorrow until I can get to the store to ge him some chicken wings/ necks so he can get mor poop inhis system to firm him up.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

I would keep the pup on kibble for a month or two because you don't seem to really know enough to be feeding a pup raw. If this were an adult GSD it wouldn't be too much of a problem to learn as you go, but for pups proper nutrition is crucial. And this is coming from a raw feeder who despises kibble.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Very detailed directions on how to change over to raw on this link. Weaning Puppies to Raw


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

yuricamp said:


> Again thanks to all for the additional comments. I have gotten a lot of the bad junk food out of my diet and I think it is only sensible to do it for my four-legged companion as well. I put him back onto his kibble for today and tomorrow until I can get to the store to ge him some chicken wings/ necks so he can get mor poop inhis system to firm him up.


Do you know how silly you sound? You want to induce mineral-based constipation on a puppy?


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

sable123 said:


> Do you know how silly you sound? You want to induce mineral-based constipation on a puppy?


 
No I don't. But I'm sure you would love to tell me.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

Verivus said:


> Don't feed raw if you do not know what you are doing. An unbalanced raw diet is much worse then the worst quality kibble for a growing pup. I literally researched raw feeding for a year before I even started. Put your pup back on kibble and do your research. I personally like Dogster.com's raw forum for newbies.


You are lucky you had a year to research to do the best for your dog. I've been doing online research for the past several weeks.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

Mac's Mom said:


> Very detailed directions on how to change over to raw on this link. Weaning Puppies to Raw


 
Thank you for the link Carrie


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

Verivus said:


> I would keep the pup on kibble for a month or two because you don't seem to really know enough to be feeding a pup raw.....


 
Raw doesn't seem to be rocket science, but since it is better than the majority of kibble out there I think it's best to get into it as soon as possible. Your advise as quoted above is not helping to move me or the puppy in the right direction. Others have posted links from resources that they used themselves and that was helpful. 

Thank you for your attempt nevertheless!


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

just to clarify, my pup really enjoyed his raw turkey and ate it all up. His kibble is not so interesting to him anymore. I decided to put him back on his kibble temporarily because we had somethign that came up for two days that we couldn't be there every hour to let him out. I will be on it again.


AND PLEASE.....

if you do not have something constructive to add, please do not reply to my posting. I am trying to learn here and not serve as a posting punch bag! 

most respectfully
me


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Well, I wasn't trying to put you down or attack you or anything so I apologize if I came across that way. My best interest is for the puppy's health; because they are growing and nutrition is critical during this period I don't feel it's wise to learn as you go as far as raw feeding is concerned. The worst kibble will ALWAYS be better then an unbalanced raw diet, even if it's something like Ol' Roy. It's commendable that you are doing your research, but it's just something to keep in mind.  In the end it is your puppy, so of course it's your decision.

ETA: The year I took to research raw was while I had my puppy. She stayed on kibble until I felt I knew enough to start. She did very well on kibble during that time.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Feeding raw isn't that complicated. A year to research it is a bit much. I would rather feed my pup raw than kibble especially when they are growing like weeds and have vaccinations added to their bodies. 
When I put Onyx on raw she was just 6 months and her first bout of Pano hit(the reason for me to research nutrition). 
That was the same time the kibble companies were killing dogs(recalls were rampant), I felt it was "now or never" and I never looked back. Though I read, read, read and learned the right way to feed as far as balance and variety introduction.
At that time, I also had a 12 year old that I put on raw. She thrived on it and I believe it gave her relief from her arthritis pain, the cartilage in the raw bones was so beneficial. She also lost a few needed pounds because she wasn't getting the fillers that the kibble had.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Yeah, I tend to overdo most things because of my perfectionist and nervous nature.  Not saying the OP should take a year, but at least take a couple of weeks before diving in to really get some baseline knowledge.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

Verivus said:


> I would keep the pup on kibble for a month or two because you don't seem to really know enough to be feeding a pup raw. If this were an adult GSD it wouldn't be too much of a problem to learn as you go, but for pups proper nutrition is crucial. And this is coming from a raw feeder who despises kibble.


all the information I have learned seems to say start out with your chicken, keep studying, 80% MM, 10% bone, and 10% OM, half being liver...balanced over time, no harm if you aren't "perfect", it all evens out over time, 
I am curious why you are so insistent that people go back to kibble until they are experts ?? Is there an example of a pup harmed by being fed raw? I studied a long time, and did not find that.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

Verivus said:


> Well, I wasn't trying to put you down or attack you or anything so I apologize if I came across that way. My best interest is for the puppy's health......


Thank you for the clarification. No worries. I was feeling extra sensitive yesterday I guess.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

My plan worked. had him on chicken backs and necks for a few days now and his stools were consistently soft but formed and considerably less voluminous. So I am guessing the bone-in may have firmed him up. He absolutely loves his chicken. I have been given a cold baby carrot every now and then as a snack sort of snack as well.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Backs and necks are not nutritionally balanced. You need to add muscle meat to the backs and necks aren't much for anything, other than a little bone. Organ meat in small portion is essential too. Please do more research on the diet. I would also get fresh(frozen) green tripe, there are so many nutritional benefits in tripe! A Place for Paws - Columbiana, Ohio - Reference Articles


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## alvinjamur (Jan 31, 2011)

RAW is the way to go AND don't let people tell you that is so because "Dogs 
are like wolves, pack animals....hunt...etc., etc.,". Its really because the 
bio-availability of nutrients is high. 

I've fed my puppy RAW food since day 1. For puppies, a benchmark to use 
is anywhere from 6-8% of body weight per day. An adult dog will consume
about 2-4% of body weight per day. Both the amounts depend on activity 
level.

25 lb dog will consume 5 lbs/week
50 lb dog will consume 8 lbs/week
75 lb .... 10.5 lbs/week

I would highly recommend you speak to James Pendergast at Darwin's 
Pet Products for further and proper guidance.

- aLV


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## Angela (Mar 22, 2011)

We have fed raw for about 4 years, when we got our GSD puppy we started her on ground raw meaty bones, we ground ourselves. We gradually switched her over to a regular raw diet like our adult dogs are on. 

How is the pup doing now?


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Raw really isn't rocket science. I started my puppy on raw since the day I got her. You DO want to get your ratios right and start feeding based on weight/percentage. An incorrect ratio can lead to constipation or runny stools. An incorrect percentage can leave you with an underweight or a fat puppy.
The best place to read up is on Lauri's website. Read everything and then come back and ask more questions. Here is the link : http://www.rawdogranch.com/

I started with chicken necks. Puppies can easily crunch up the bones in necks. When we cook wings for ourselves, we usually cut off the wing tips and that serves as a meal for one dog. 
Right now, my dogs eat chix necks, beef hearts, tripe, and chicken liver until I can get my hands on some other proteins. 
I also have pork hearts in the freezer, which they will be eating soon. I usually can't provide more than 3 proteins a week for them. Turkey I won't get until Tday and lamb I can maybe get every few months.

Get some raw green tripe and feed it every few days as half the portion of the muscle meat. 

Buy some chicken, lamb, or beef (etc) liver and start feeding a small portion of that. Organ meat (liver, kidneys) is very nutritious and is an important part of feeding raw. I feed it every other day.

Try to find cheap tilapia or canned mackerel and feed that as well. Some dogs may eat it, others will not touch fish. 

For diarrhea, buy some plain canned pumpkin and feed about a tablespoon. Use this when introducing new proteins or when you have messed up the diet somewhere.

Invest in a large jug of fish oil from your local Costco, or buy some Salmon oil off ebay and start giving him some of that. 

Some people like to give their dogs multivitamins, but I don't bother to do it regularly. 

Chicken feet are good for joints. I'll feed them veggies and oatmeal when I have nothing defrosted. You can also add raw eggs; some will eat the shells, others won't.

I don't agree that a crappy quality kibble is better than unbalanced raw. My dogs do better on raw meat than any kibble; even the highest quality. Kibble companies love to advertise the fact that dog diets are extremely complicated and that they have it down to a science. If that were true, my dog wouldn't shed twice as much and have 4x the amount of poop. Their teeth wouldn't be yellow and I wouldn't have to deal with "powder coats" and stinky doggy smell.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

Angela said:


> We have fed raw for about 4 years, when we got our GSD puppy we started her on ground raw meaty bones, we ground ourselves. We gradually switched her over to a regular raw diet like our adult dogs are on.
> 
> How is the pup doing now?


He is ding well. Thanks for asking. He is 10.5 weeks now and gaining about 2 or more pounds a week. I got him some green tripe and he seems to totally love it, even though I think it’s horrible. He also loves carrots


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

I feed my pup basically the same thing as barrios does, but I use chicken wings instead as he seems to be able to chew those up without a problem. I also use turkey again and his oops are fine. Turkey seems to be a lot cheaper he just can’t deal with the whole bone right now. Chicken and beef livers are the only organ meats I’ve been able to get my hands on thus far, but I’ve found a supplier (thanks to Josie/Zeus) who is going to ship some in shortly I hope.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Yes, turkey is great. You're feeding all the right things, but you have to weigh your puppy regularly to see how much you should be feeding him. I feed both my dogs 50% RMB, 45% MM and 5% OM. The puppy gets 5-6% of her body weight and the older dog gets 2.5% of her weight. 
Play with the ratios and see what works for your dog. Feed according to weight or you can have an under/over weight dog.


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

Tbarrios333 said:


> ...you have to weigh your puppy regularly ...


Is started out calculating about 10% of his body weight and breaking that over two meals a day.  He is constantly growing however, like a pound every three days. I tend to watch his waistline and adjust amount for how he looks and content based on poo consistencey while still trying to get close to a PMD.


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