# Growled at me over a bone - how to handle?



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Well, that saga continues. I gave Summer a nice knuckle bone today. I noticed she had a really long piece of connective tissue in her mouth that she was trying to chew off. It looked about 8 inches long so I was going to just trim it off for her (concerned about choke)...Not.

Little growl, but pretty constant for about 30 seconds. I think she surprised herself when she did it. I didn't push the issue because I want to handle it the right way. I did not acknowledge her growl, just stayed where I was and talked to her in a normal tone and messed around with some random things on the counter above her, I did not give up my space. 

As you may have read, I've been having trouble with her on simple yard recall the last couple of days, she was fine today and then this pops up. I'm thinking this is pretty much confirmation that she is in the teenage defiant stage (11mos). That's ok, I can deal with it.

Any suggestions on the bone thing? I hate to withhold them from her as it really provides a chewing release. I give her 1 about every 4 days and my furniture and house is intact Thanks!


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Have you ever done "trade up games" with her?

I think you handled it well. You did not give up your space. That's good.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks, what's trade up games? I know her highest value treat is a piece of string cheese, which she has refused for recall into the house the last 2 days - how do you "trade up" from a wonderful knuckle bone? Or, am I totally thinking wrong?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

11 month old makes the range of possible remedies a bit more limited...unless one is confident at what might come at them as they make quick work of the behavior you describe. I'm sure there are many solutions available to deal with what I have seen termed "right of ownership"....I like the term as it is more defining than resource guarding....kind of gives the human more of an idea about the big picture.

I'm glad I crossed this bridge with the dogs I have had, that required the same lesson when they were much younger than 11 months.....


SuperG


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

You are right. Very little compares to a wonderful knuckle bone!!!

So, for now. She does not get one. And start with things of much less value, then use a high power treat to trade up. Do it with a variety of toys and chews. I also modify it when they are eating. I don't trade up, but I will walk past the bowl while eating and drop something amazing in it!! They learn you are the bringer of bigger and better things. Once solid it should transfer. 

This probably is a part of growing up. Learning what she can get away with and what you will tolerate. May be time to do a bit harder NILF with her as well.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

One other thought..and I am guessing it is obvious...apprehension in any solution...which some are designed for...certainly can complicate things.

SuperG


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I just pulled a 5.5lb roaster chicken out of the oven. I will bag up and freeze half for her for trade up. 

NILF - homework! I can't believe I've seen that mentioned dozens of times here, but not investigated it. My bad.

I think I've spoiled her, she's used to getting the chicken on a regular basis too.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

SuperG said:


> One other thought..and I am guessing it is obvious...apprehension in any solution...which some are designed for...certainly can complicate things.
> 
> SuperG


Gol' darn Super G - sometimes you can be so cryptic and philosophical - I value your input Please just spit it out already!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Trade up games for dogs that haven't made a consistent habit of guarding things yet are good. Another thing you want to do is whenever a dog is trying to mess with an item that they aren't supposed to (socks, paper, pillows) you want to correct the dog and remove the dog from the item and not remove the item from the dog.

Possessiveness like that has a strong genetic component and now that you see the dog is prone to it those kinds of steps can prevent it from becoming more of an issue.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Just read about Nothing in Life is Free. I have been practicing that and have been in the process of getting her off treat training. She know so many commands from that. 

She just parks herself poised and ready to run because she wants to stay out in the yard. She "cops a pose" when she is refusing - It looks like a "show dog stack" except her head is lowered and she is staring at me, waiting for my move....

She's right on the money with every command in the house, it's just outside and then today the bone growling thing.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Trade up games for dogs that haven't made a consistent habit of guarding things yet are good. Another thing you want to do is whenever a dog is trying to mess with an item that they aren't supposed to (socks, paper, pillows) you want to correct the dog and remove the dog from the item and not remove the item from the dog.
> 
> Possessiveness like that has a strong genetic component and now that you see the dog is prone to it those kinds of steps can prevent it from becoming more of an issue.


Thank you! - I have been removing the item from the dog. I knew the bone thing was pretty primal or genetic. She's never been possessive about anything else.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Baillif said:


> Another thing you want to do is whenever a dog is trying to mess with an item that they aren't supposed to (socks, paper, pillows) you want to correct the dog and remove the dog from the item and not remove the item from the dog.



Excellent point!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> Excellent point!


She's pretty much over that stuff in the house. It was funny, she reduced down to little tiny slips of paper and would bring it to me before she finally quit. I was forever taking the tiniest little things from her before she quit.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If I had this problem with a dog, now that you know, so the next time it happens:

Knuckle bones are large and bulky. 

I would put a leash on her, and walk her until she drops the thing, and then walk her to her crate and put her in it. Then I would go to the bone and cut off the offending bit, though I would probably just let nature run its course and not worry about a dog choking on a bone piece that was raw and what dogs are intended to eat. After changing the bone to suit me, I would take the bone to the crate and give the thing to the dog.

If the dog growled at me when I tried to take the bone from the dog, I probably would not give the bone back, at least not that day. But I really don't know what I would do because some of that stuff is so in the moment, that I figure if I am faced with the situation, I would probably do what makes sense for that dog at that moment. Some dogs, I might say, "Oh no you didn't!" and proceed to remove the bone. Other dogs, I might tell them to drop it, or to go to there place in a very disapproving tone. I might even get bitten, I suppose, but it just doesn't seem to be an issue for my critters. Maybe because usually once it is given it is given, and I don't try to retrieve. 

I have gone after stolen items, trash, high value stuff, without an issue though. I suppose I should teach the dogs to DROP IT. I don't always have something to trade up with. I wonder if chicken thigh trumps knuckle bone. I tend to think this gives the dog the wrong message, unless it is done as an approach to retrieving a high value item and not as a Plan B. I guess my form of trading up is not with a treat but with the impression that we will be going for a walk or to the car, which pretty much trumps everything else.

So if it is a real high value treat, and it happens to really look dangerous. Take the boy for a ride in the car, Go to the door and giggle the knob, get the leash, and when he trades up, put him in his crate in the car, go back and take care of the offensive item, and then drive to DQ and get yourself a hot fudge brownie delight. If you will feel guilty otherwise, get him a vanilla cone with a cup.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks Selzer!

You have some very good points. One high value that is not another treat that you mentioned is opening a door. That will work... until she soon figures out to take the bone with her out the door, but if she does, if I'm quick enough, I can easily get her involved in a ball game and get the bone put away.
I just feel like this is another "trick" and not much correction or training. 

She really knows exactly what she's doing and the whole thing seems to be a battle of wills. She is smart enough to do a "work around" like she did with the treats. She will go to the door to come in, if I'm 10 feet away, she will come in the door to get a treat, if I'm anywhere near the backdoor, where I can close it - she lets the treats lay and time won't wear her down. I pick them up and she does not get them. 

The only thing I've been able to to is give her a time out in the bedroom. This, it seems doesn't bother her. This leads into a discussion from the other night about penalties with Bailiff. That got a little cryptic also. So, still at a standoff here.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> Gol' darn Super G - sometimes you can be so cryptic and philosophical - I value your input Please just spit it out already!


Okay...I deserved that...

However, all I can speak for is what I have done...nothing more...and I promise there are many who would speak against what I have done...that's fine...chances are they would have a better solution because they know more than I do.

This is a long story....but you asked for it.

When my last shepherd died, a spouse of someone I know through a common pursuit..we also had a connection through dogs...gave me a book to soften the hardship..a book by Susan Clothier...I think..might have the name wrong..but close. Bones Raining From the Skies or something close. Had a chapter dealing with loss...not bad..it was worth reading. Anyway, I decided to read the rest of the book and there was good info regarding "right of ownership"....dog behavior, postures, where they held items of value and how they showed the other dogs how powerful they might be by how they defined the boundaries. I'm one of these type who relates to a dog at it's own level at times..which is dismissed by many...as they rightly state .."the dog knows you are not a dog". However, we all know, we can induce a dog by taking the play position..something I have heard might work against you...but I do it anyway. There are other postures one can take that I believe the dog reads....even though the dog knows I am not a dog. Anyway,....not even half way done...LOL....One of the best lines I heard in here was when I posted.." from all my puppy's first many meals in this house, I would put my face in their bowl right along with them many a time or pretend to eat some before I gave the bowl to the pup"...and Baliff responded.." do you chew it up first and then regurgitate to your pup like a mother bird?"...great response...still makes me laugh.

"Right of ownership" can begin at the food bowl or over a toy or wherever...your choice at this point....perhaps it simply needs to be reinforced or managed ( trading up). My current dog( and previous 3) never competed over her/their food bowl to date..I'll take anything from her jaws if I chose..anything...and I never do it just because I can..maybe because of my silly behavior from her first many meals..who knows? But, I noticed a different attitude when it came to her toys...she seemed to be the owner and queen of all outside her food bowl. Clothier's accurate descriptions of body postures and positioning of "prized" items clued me into this, I'm sure they are probably widely known by most who are dog smart...but this was a first for me...but everything she said was right in front of my eyes. So, I used my ridiculous dog posturing approach again...approached the pup as vying for the " prize" she was claiming in her "body speak"...she reacted as predicted, I reacted before she got done with her reaction...and threw her off balance ( not literally ) enough to where the confrontation was done and over with in a blink of the eye...I think the surprise and quickness of my response which was less than I expected; changed the situation forevermore. Would I do this with an 11 month old GSD ? I talk a big story but I would really have to think about it. So, since you are at a stage with this dog where they are much more formidable...I would never start anything you couldn't finish....Trading up will manage a particular situation but the notion of who has "right of ownership" might be glossed over perhaps. 

Hopefully, the behavior is just indicative of the age and the testing of a new bravado can be kept in check easily enough...but it is a turning point in your dog's development that requires attention as you have rightfully inquired about...you're no dummy...you have plenty of dog savvy it seems. Start wherever you know you won't lose...losing isn't an option.


SuperG


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Super G! Thank you! I see your point. I had a half wolf/half GSD for 13 years and my approach with him was more oriented to trying to get his perspective before making a move.

I did think of one thing. When she was much younger and frenzy land sharking - I would take a rolled up magazine and hit a table with it to make a noise and stamp my foot. She quit immediately - I haven't been doing this, think it will work with the bone inside (if I react before she reacts as you say, to catch offgard) but not with the recall outside - all bets are off when she doesn't want to come in, but, I think you just helped me solve the bone issue, I like to follow a persons "thinking process", that helps me to apply it. Your post was right on. Thanks!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I've never had that issue with any dog.Maybe I've just been lucky that way?One of the first things I teach a new dog is the "leave it" command and before they get a bone or toy they have to leave it 2 or 3 times.The reward is they immediately get the prize back.
My little demon dog Devo gets really geeked up if he thinks one of the other dogs may get his prize,so if I tell him to leave it I have to wait a few seconds for him to relax.I can see the tension melt away then I take the object.

When Samson wanted to keep playing and not come inside I started tricking him by getting him playing with the flirt pole,reeling him in close to me,and ha!Gotcha!Then hustled him inside for treats.He comes right in now,but I still have to use my drill Sgt. voice.

That's just some stuff that works for me anyway


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I used to play games with treats or food, and I used to feel all proud of myself that my dogs don't challenge me for their food or treats. Now I know I just have dogs that do not have this problem. Whether that is because of who I am to them from day 1 or because they don't have the genetic tendency to do this, it just isn't there with my dogs. 

Can we, by screwing with a dog's food or treats, cause them to believe that they might lose it and by doing so create a problem in a dog that doesn't have it in them? I don't know. I think for some dogs, no. Not going to happen because it just isn't there. But everything is not black and white. Most things are on some form of continuum. A dog that may have never had any problem whatsoever, might be near enough to that line, that repeated tests into his dish or with his high value item, might make him more suspicious or anxious about it. 

I don't put my face near my dog's food dish. But, I have had the girls help me feed the dogs. And I was very pleased that when the one little one spilled the food in and out of the dish, she went right down there and started scooping it up and putting it in the dish, and the dog did nothing at all. Good girls. The most I might expect them to do is maybe try to get to the food before the girl, or push themselves in between. They are not aggressive toward the girls at all, or I wouldn't have them help me. In fact, they practice giving the dogs high value treats safely, with an open hand, and a reminder to be gentle, and Sue standing there.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

This is my 4th GSD and I've never had the issue before now. In fact I've never had many of the issues before that I have with this pup. Someone commented the other night, congratulations, you have GSD that is true to GSD ways now. Meaning what?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

There probably are some really anxious dogs that become even more anxious if you messed with their food.I always thought if I showed them from day one that they would always get it back if they could give it up for a second,that would head off any problems.But then again,I haven't interacted with hundreds of dogs,just my own.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I have a closet resource guarder that is largely in check. He used to RG from my son on occasions and my husband (never has with me) over toys and once over his food bowl. He's now pretty much down to RG'ing from the cat's interest in his food. However, last night he had a little left in his bowl (he had to keep checking on me as I was around the corner out of sight), so I decided to run a bit more water in it. He was standing over it, head down but not eating. I just asked him to move, then got the bowl. I couldn't see his face, so decided to not make it an issue and just remove HIM. I've had several GSDs and, like you, this is my first RG'er.

For now (for me), your pup would get nothing that is so high value that you can't take it if needed. If mine wouldn't recall, then he would be on a long line still (15 ft at least). I would also make sure I work on some of those commands she does so well inside outside so she starts to realize that rules apply outside too and not just play. They do eventually get it, but recall is hard when everything is so much more fun outside. For a while, I had issues with him not recalling because he wanted to say hi to the dogs next door. Now, at 2, he doesn't even glance their way (he learned that if he wanted to stay outside, don't go visiting or you get marched back inside). I have an advantage though with him, he has never wanted to be outside by himself. He loves outside more than anything ... as long as you go with him.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

My oldest will try this every now and then as she gets older(she can be grumpy). I let her be and let her enjoy her bone. If I'm taking it away for the day, I stand my ground and take it. It's only with those darn knuckle bones. 

Other then that none of my dogs care if I or anyone else takes a toy, bone or goes near their food. I have noticed that all my dogs are very slow calm eaters, which might make a difference because they are just calm and not trying to consume their food in one gulp. Apollo will lay down and eat his food so slow, I end up standing there waiting to take the bowl up.

I also from day one teach them it's ok for me to take something and that they will get it back. It has never really failed with any of the dogs I have ever had. Can it fail? Probably, but I've never experienced it.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

llombardo said:


> I have noticed that all my dogs are very slow calm eaters, which might make a difference because they are just calm and not trying to consume their food in one gulp.


This observation makes me wonder if my indoctrination with my current dog turned her into a fast eater...granted I did the same with all 4 of the dogs I have had over my history but my current girl seems to put it down faster than any of them did. There are other variables as well...raw fed for one...and this dog is definitely more exercised than the others were.. Could just be the character of the dog as well.???


SuperG


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

SuperG said:


> This observation makes me wonder if my indoctrination with my current dog turned her into a fast eater...granted I did the same with all 4 of the dogs I have had over my history but my current girl seems to put it down faster than any of them did. There are other variables as well...raw fed for one...and this dog is definitely more exercised than the others were.. Could just be the character of the dog as well.???
> 
> 
> SuperG


I am consistently late for work because of this


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Newlie has never resource guarded anything. He came to me that way which makes me think that maybe he didn't have a horrible past. When he was found as a stray, he was only a little underweight and did not look like he had been a stray for very long. The rescue told me his past was unknown, but they thought maybe he had been a breeder dog, although I am not sure why they thought that. But Newlie came to me already knowing things that seem to argue at one point he was part of a family. The rescue group said he was not microchipped and that they had not goitten any response in trying to locate an owner. I wonder sometimes if he still has a family looking and grieving for him.

I have, occasionally, taken Newlie's food bowl away when I needed to with no problem. I don't do it without reason though. Would any one of us want our food continually yanked away from us when we are trying to eat? I can tell you I would get more than a little cranky if someone was doing that to me. No, I leave him in peace when he is eating. I have not had any problem with him growling over his toys or anything like that either.

I did just remember one thing though. We had not had Newlie long when I had to move him off the bed because he was taking up too much room. It's difficult to remember at this distance because over the years I have learned that he is a vocal dog and he mumbles/grumbles when you are doing something he dislikes. It doesn't mean anything, he never does anything but vocalize. But that one particular night when I didn't know him so well, I thought he growled at me. And I thought "Oh no, you little so-and-so, you are not going to start that with me" and I told him to get OFF that bed, blocked him put of the bedroom with the baby gate and denied him access to me all night. He whined and cried the whole night through. I feel kind of bad about it now, but I felt like I had to make a point. I was mad so it didn't occur to me until afterward that maybe another shepherd might have came after me for confronting him the way I did, I guess God sometimes does protect fools and babies.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Self awareness, the sense that we belong to different class of creatures is typical only to the top intellectual creatures: Humans, Apes, Dolphins, Elephants, and many studies say - Crows. Dogs don't know that we are humans and they are the dogs. They treat us as they would treat other dogs, and from birth they apply instinctively one and the same model to all their behaviour. Dog's olfactory organ is more complex than of human, they have additional nasal niche do recognise other dogs, and humans do not smell of a dog, so we are some sort of "biped non-dog-smelling dogs" for them. But, if you want to read your dog behaviour towards a human - always study their behaviour and attitudes toward each other. This angle will provide you with insight, and many things would be easy to understand.
When a dog doesn't want to give a valuable item to his owner - it says a lot about status in a pack. If the dog lives in a family with father, mother and daughter/son - son cannot possibly be a leader of the pack only because he walks and trains the dog, dog senses who is who in the pack instinctively. So, the training becomes the matter of gaining for the owner a higher position in the hierarchy in his dog's eyes. The same story is with couples, wives with husbands. If you are alone - unlikely you would face such problem. 
If a dog with a bone in his mouth growls at the owner - it means she/he wants to compete for higher position, and growling means his disagreement with present situation (that doesn't matter in fact, I don't pay attention to this growling). The dog does it if he feels to be an equal mate, has the same rights. Your task is - not to stop such behaviour and be a boss, but explain to him that you are not his brother, you are his parent, a senior person. Feed him out of your hand for a week with NILIF, train to give the ball into your hand not just drop it, *train "give" command in many ways with different items* including tug-of-war, and finish the game by removing the toy from him and asking him to sit when the game is the most interesting for him. Never show that growling impresses you.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

dogma13 said:


> .I always thought if I showed them from day one that they would always get it back if they could give it up for a second,that would head off any problems.But then again,I haven't interacted with hundreds of dogs,just my own.


I certainly have used your approach of the dog getting it back....but for a different reason but the outcome was the same. Certain raw components I feed my dog take place away from the food bowl. Whole items like meaty bones, chicken quarters etc. were introduced to her on a bath towel on the kitchen floor...just didn't seem plausible to me that the dog would be disciplined enough to keep these items in her food bowl as she crunched them up...a big towel seemed more practical. So, in the beginning..dog gets meaty bone on towel and slowly works it off the target area...I'd reach in and reposition the food on the towel..I'd throw in a " keep it on the towel " laughingly....but over time it seems the dog figured out it needs to keep it on the towel...could simply be because she doesn't want me messing with her food...

When I give her calf leg bones, I generally let her eat the heads off both ends and then when just the shank is left, I usually remove those from her...but will push the remaining marrow out and of course give it to her. I guess it could be viewed as a twist on the "trading up" method I see many in here advocate....except she gets the higher prized marrow after the fact not before or during the process of the dog relinquishing the original item.


SuperG


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

David Taggart said:


> Self awareness, the sense that we belong to different class of creatures is typical only to the top intellectual creatures: Humans, Apes, Dolphins, Elephants, and many studies say - Crows. Dogs don't know that we are humans and they are the dogs. They treat us as they would treat other dogs, and from birth they apply instinctively one and the same model to all their behaviour. Dog's olfactory organ is more complex than of human, they have additional nasal niche do recognise other dogs, and humans do not smell of a dog, so we are some sort of "biped non-dog-smelling dogs" for them. But, if you want to read your dog behaviour towards a human - always study their behaviour and attitudes toward each other. This angle will provide you with insight, and many things would be easy to understand.
> When a dog doesn't want to give a valuable item to his owner - it says a lot about status in a pack. If the dog lives in a family with father, mother and daughter/son - son cannot possibly be a leader of the pack only because he walks and trains the dog, dog senses who is who in the pack instinctively. So, the training becomes the matter of gaining for the owner a higher position in the hierarchy in his dog's eyes. The same story is with couples, wives with husbands. If you are alone - unlikely you would face such problem.
> If a dog with a bone in his mouth growls at the owner - it means she/he wants to compete for higher position, and growling means his disagreement with present situation (that doesn't matter in fact, I don't pay attention to this growling). The dog does it if he feels to be an equal mate, has the same rights. Your task is - not to stop such behaviour and be a boss, but explain to him that you are not his brother, you are his parent, a senior person. Feed him out of your hand for a week with NILIF, train to give the ball into your hand not just drop it, *train "give" command in many ways with different items* including tug-of-war, and finish the game by removing the toy from him and asking him to sit when the game is the most interesting for him. Never show that growling impresses you.


Thank you. This will add the 2nd component I was looking for as to penalty. I hate to be so reliant on food rewards. But I will hand feed (I can clearly see the point) and ball and tug, she will have to release to my hand before we can play again. I used to have her release the ball and sit or laydown. I quit this intentionally because she really torques her hips when coming out of a sit or lay to chase a ball.


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## JoeyG (Nov 17, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> Self awareness, the sense that we belong to different class of creatures is typical only to the top intellectual creatures: Humans, Apes, Dolphins, Elephants, and many studies say - Crows. Dogs don't know that we are humans and they are the dogs. They treat us as they would treat other dogs, and from birth they apply instinctively one and the same model to all their behaviour. Dog's olfactory organ is more complex than of humn, they have additional nasal niche do recognise other dogs, and humans do not smell of a dog, so we are some sort of "biped non-dog-smelling dogs" for them. But, if you want to read your dog behaviour towards a human - always study their behaviour and attitudes toward each other. This angle will provide you with insight, and many things would be easy to understand.
> When a dog doesn't want to give a valuable item to his owner - it says a lot about status in a pack. If the dog lives in a family with father, mother and daughter/son - son cannot possibly be a leader of the pack only because he walks and trains the dog, dog senses who is who in the pack instinctively. So, the training becomes the matter of gaining for the owner a higher position in the hierarchy in his dog's eyes. The same story is with couples, wives with husbands. If you are alone - unlikely you would face such problem.
> If a dog with a bone in his mouth growls at the owner - it means she/he wants to compete for higher position, and growling means his disagreement with present situation (that doesn't matter in fact, I don't pay attention to this growling). The dog does it if he feels to be an equal mate, has the same rights. Your task is - not to stop such behaviour and be a boss, but explain to him that you are not his brother, you are his parent, a senior person. Feed him out of your hand for a week with NILIF, train to give the ball into your hand not just drop it, *train "give" command in many ways with different items* including tug-of-war, and finish the game by removing the toy from him and asking him to sit when the game is the most interesting for him. Never show that growling impresses you.


Truth be told I agree with you. I read a lot about how dogs growl at their owners and it's beyond me. I have raised my dogs eating out of my hand as puppies and for Bo I had my daughter do it when she was 3. He has NEVER had an issue with us taking anything away. I don't understand why people have such an issue. We don't bother him but he does get affection when he eats, we'll pet him or rub him and he loves it. Getting them when they're puppies makes lie soooo much easier I'm not sure why people have issues with their own dogs....


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

JoeyG,unless you're blessed with a mellow easy going dog from the get go,we all have issues that crop up here and there.If someone has a lot of experience raising gsds you can be proactive and avoid many or most problems.But many of us learn as we go along and are glad to have the folks on this forum to help work through problems and communicate better with our dogs.
I will admit though,sometimes I am left shaking my head at some posters.Like the ones with a puppy they've had for two days and are already freaking out about virtually everything.All we can do offer moral support and draw on our own experience to offer advice.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

JoeyG said:


> Truth be told I agree with you. I read a lot about how dogs growl at their owners and it's beyond me. I have raised my dogs eating out of my hand as puppies and for Bo I had my daughter do it when she was 3. He has NEVER had an issue with us taking anything away. I don't understand why people have such an issue. We don't bother him but he does get affection when he eats, we'll pet him or rub him and he loves it. Getting them when they're puppies makes lie soooo much easier I'm not sure why people have issues with their own dogs....


Well Joey, it's probably like when your dog was nipping at your daughter when she was running. As David Taggart was explaining, there are some instinctual things going on here. She has never done this before nor have my 3 previous GSD's but her first heat is due any day. Thanks for the criticism though.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Have you ever watched a litter eating together out of one big plate? They can be pretty aggressive towards each other. But they would lick their mother's mouth, asking her to regurgitate. This boy must be doing it for fun being absolutely unaware that he is teaching his puppy to be submissive to him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lfw_97q3uo
If you try it yourself - you will find out that it is not tha easy as it looks. Your dog might back up thinking you can bite his nose off.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

David Taggart said:


> Have you ever watched a litter eating together out of one big plate? They can be pretty aggressive towards each other. But they would lick their mother's mouth, asking her to regurgitate. This boy must be doing it for fun being absolutely unaware that he is teaching his puppy to be submissive to him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lfw_97q3uo
> If you try it yourself - you will find out that it is not tha easy as it looks. Your dog might back up thinking you can bite his nose off.


Woah! In life, some things are certain. One of them is I will not be setting the dinner table for any dog in my mouth. It's one of the things I promised my mommy I would never do....

By the way, she's back to her old self. Recalls fine. We worked on her NILF today with the ball, she was good there too. Also I got the connector for the prong collar today, so we're back in business there too.

I ordered the book "The other end of the leash" after a couple of recommendations on this site yesterday. Hope it will help and compliment what you are teaching me. Thanks!


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> By the way, she's back to her old self.



Glad to hear that...


SuperG


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Good to hear!The Other End of the Leash is excellent,thumbs up from me!
,,


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I think in general most of us do some degree of hand feeding our dogs "whatever" there age is when we first get them? By and larger that seems to be enough for most of us.

If a dog growls over "an" item, the dog "needs" to move! A "No" "Leave It" or "Go" come to mind! Whatever it takes to make them give up "whatever" it is but, yeah "not" grabbing it out of his/her mouth!

You handled it well, and now you know there are "issues" to be dealt with.


Sit, wait and hand feed all meals for two weeks if needed. A dog that growls at it's handler only means it's not a dog for everybody but it's still a dog for somebody!


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I remember an early stage with this bitch I have now....good things come from my hand....something this forum taught me.


SuperG


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Hand feeding is fine with me for a couple of weeks. I'm so glad I didn't react or do anything until I heard from you all. There was no way I was going to grab the bone. Makes sense, move the dog, not the bone.

Trying to find the cause for the sudden changes had me a little concerned the last couple of days. Today, as I mentioned she was much better. Guess what - today she showed an unusual interest in spots where she peed. I just checked her and I think we have her first heat on the way, she's got some minor swelling. Relief to me, may explain what's been going on the last couple of days.

I think that we can all agree (men and women both) that a female can get a little bitchy when there about to be OTR


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> Hand feeding is fine with me for a couple of weeks. I'm so glad I didn't react or do anything until I heard from you all. There was no way I was going to grab the bone. Makes sense, move the dog, not the bone.
> 
> Trying to find the cause for the sudden changes had me a little concerned the last couple of days. Today, as I mentioned she was much better. Guess what - today she showed an unusual interest in spots where she peed. I just checked her and I think we have her first heat on the way, she's got some minor swelling. Relief to me, may explain what's been going on the last couple of days.
> 
> I think that we can all agree (men and women both) that a female can get a little bitchy when there about to be OTR


Well we all seem to be in agreement that you handled it just fine! And now you know! 

Rocky never challenged me but he still managed to give me more than enough problems in other aspects! 

These "are not easy dogs" how we deal with the "problems" that arise shows us "we" what we are made off!

A GSD "growl" is as pretty eye opening experience! I've heard it "twice" with my guy and both times he meant business! 

The first time it was directed at company! The second time I was grateful and surprised because it came when I was on my back and "Rocky" came to my defense!

Hearing that "growl" directed at "you" has to be pretty gut "wrenching" but rest assured, if you can get pass this, that will be a dog you want to have at your side!


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Jean Donaldson's Mine is a good book on the subject of resource guarding. Just rec'd it on another thread.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Well we all seem to be in agreement that you handled it just fine! And now you know!
> 
> Rocky never challenged me but he still managed to give me more than enough problems in other aspects!
> 
> ...


Thanks Chip! It wasn't a big growl. Just a tiny one. I would hardly hear it, but it was there. She's learning to guard (no training) the yard now and she always starts out with these tiny little woofs because she's not sure.

I kinda grew up the hard way on my own when I was 17. I've been conditioned to handle certain situations in a different way as a result. Cool, calm, decelerate the situation without looking and acting like a victim or prey. That training is ingrained in my reactions it seems. Kept me alive while others got hurt or died. Sometimes, I think that people or dogs just want you to stop, a crucial little "time out" - a moment of calm, so they don't do something crazy. Like a rattlesnake....

I know, that the day may come when she really lets me know she's got a problem that she's putting on me. I'm pretty confident that my experience/training will again kick in and all will be well. The valuable information I'm getting here, is how to avoid this and how to deal with the aftermath should doo doo happen

Yes, I think she will cover my back if I ever need it also.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> Trying to find the cause for the sudden changes had me a little concerned the last couple of days. Today, as I mentioned she was much better. Guess what - today she showed an unusual interest in spots where she peed. I just checked her and I think we have her first heat on the way, she's got some minor swelling. Relief to me, may explain what's been going on the last couple of days.
> 
> I think that we can all agree (men and women both) that a female can get a little bitchy when there about to be OTR


No doubt the new "feelings" a bitch might be experiencing, which is coming into her first heat can create some behavioral changes. I know with mine, she turned into this more clingy "lovey dovey" version of herself. My BIL who has been involved in her life more than any other "outsider", was really surprised by her behavior. He suggested she should be induced to be in heat all year... He's a Collie person and really has never witnessed the drive of a breed like the GSD..plus at that age they are so full of fire as well...so he was so surprised at how her heat seemed to make her more clingy and mellow. Now that my bitch has gone through a few estrus cycles I believe she is more at ease with the temporary physiological changes she experiences and the behavioral changes have diminished as she is a true "seasoned" veteran of this portion of her life.


SuperG


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