# Difficult Puppy



## Poetess (Feb 7, 2018)

My adult daughter bought a german shepherd puppy from a questionable breeder. Puppy had roundworms, and then caught parvo from our new dog. 

Anyways, we are crate training him, he never lets us know he has to go until he has gone pee so much that when he scratches at the crate door pee is getting all over our floor. Same with poop, he will poop and then walk in it and lay in it, heck he will even eat it. In fact, today he ate it, then threw up and then ate THAT.

It's frustrating because he refuses to go outside most of the time. He will claw at the door to come in so he can poop in our dining room and pee in the living room. Even when he does go outside, when he goes back in his crate he will soil it...multiple times without warning. He loves pushing the potty pads to the back of the crate so that all the poo and pee can get straight on the bottom. It is very disheartening. I am a stay at home mom to a baby, toddler, and tween. I do not have time to bathe him, and clean his crate multiple times a day, in addition to potty training our own dog! 

I'm addition this puppy is nipping everyone, and drew blood on my tween daughter. We are using Apple cider vinegar/water spray on him. It makes him stop...for a little bit. Is all this behavior normal? He seems kinda touched, I mean I understand mistakes, but it's constant. I'm cleaning poop and pee off my floors every day multiple times and then the crate multiple times as well. 

Tia!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I find all puppies difficult, so your puppy is normal.  People can comment on worms, but it can be normal in a puppy and is easily treatable. I also had a puppy with parvo. It didn't affect his crate training. How old is your puppy? All my puppies were housebroken and crate trained by 12 weeks with consistent training. At 12 weeks they were letting me know they had to go potty by sitting at the backdoor.

But as a puppy, you should not be waiting for the puppy to let you know he has to go potty. He may not know until he's going...lol. You have to anticipate it by taking him out every half hour to an hour in the beginning and then praising him when he goes potty outside. You need to anticipate that he'll need to go potty after he wakes up, after he eats, after play time, before bed, etc.

When you say he claws to get inside, is anyone outside with him or are you just letting him out and letting him back in? Why does he refuse to go outside? He is outside alone? GSD puppies don't like to be alone. They want to be with their pack. You should be outside with him so he can be rewarded when he goes potty. If you let him out and he doesn't go after 10-15 minutes, put him back in the crate and try again in 10 minutes or a half hour. Don't give him the opportunity to go inside his crate.

If he's going to the bathroom in the house, how is that happening? Do you see him going potty inside? If you so, you say "no" and you scoop him up and deposit him outside to go so he knows and the praise him to the high heavens. He shouldn't be without supervision if he's out of the crate inside. You need to be able to catch him in the act and redirect to the right location for you to stop this behavior.

Oh, and if my adult child brought home a puppy for me to take care of (with everything else you said was on your plate), we'd be having words. This is your daughter's responsibility. If she can't train and teach the puppy, she should not have one. Sorry if that's harsh, but that would tick me off.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You should probably find him new home. Sounds like you have a lot going on and really no desire to have this puppy.


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## JessicaR (Oct 25, 2016)

Sounds like your plate may be too full right now to deal with a puppy, why is the adult daughter not caring for him?

You can not let a puppy outside alone and expect it to go. you need to take him out a lot, and make sure he is going. There will be lots of distractions for him and he may forget to go while in the middle of investigating new smells. Plus they have small bladders and poor muscle control of them when young, just like toddlers they don't always know they have to go until it is to late. You need to take him out at night before he goes in his crate, even if that means setting an alarm for every 2 hours. 

Nipping is normal for all puppies, they explore and play with their mouths.


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## Poetess (Feb 7, 2018)

IllinoisNative said:


> I find all puppies difficult, so your puppy is normal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He is 10 weeks old. We take him out every 2 hours, and someone is always with him. But it seems he prefers to do his business indoors. 

When he is out of his crate we are playing with him, but he will pee/poo out of nowhere without any signs (sniffing, circling etc.). However sometimes he runs off to poo, and by the time one of us has caught up to him, it's too late. My daughter tried to startle him once and even picked him up to take him out and he simply continued to go.

There is no rythme or reason with this dog. Sometimes he even poos or pees on our mini schnauzers indoor potty..But we think he does it to drive our puppy up the wall.

Compared to our 10 week old puppy, he just seems wild and untrainable. Of course they are different breeds. We are all first time dog owners so this is all new and VERY stressful. There is contradictory advice all over the internet about potty training and crate training. ?


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Sounds like a whole lot of human error. Too bad the pup has to be the one forced to defecate in his own crate then trek through it just to beg to get out.
Either tell your daughter "I am assuming she is grown and not the tween" to take responsibility for her pup. Or rehome the dog to someplace it can be properly cared for.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Poetess said:


> There is no rythme or reason with this dog. Sometimes he even poos or pees on our mini schnauzers indoor potty..But we think he does it to drive our puppy up the wall.


NO, he does not. He does it there because that is where the smell is. How do you think a dog is going to know that spot is restricted to him? It's where he thinks he is supposed to go because that's what the smell tells him!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Poetess said:


> He is 10 weeks old. We take him out every 2 hours, and someone is always with him. But it seems he prefers to do his business indoors.


He may need to go out more often. I had one puppy that had to go every hour. They just lack bladder control at that age. It's a lot like having a newborn. I'm not going to lie, the first few months are rough. I would literally sleep on the couch by the back door and let my puppy out every 2 hours at night. Sometimes as soon as I heard them stir to prevent the habit of whining. During the day, I let them out more frequently. It's going to depend on their bladder control, how much water they drink, how often they play, etc. If he's still going inside after letting him out every two hours, I would start letting him out every half hour to hour. And I would stay outside until he went potty. Or I'd put him in is crate if he doesn't go potty within 10-15 minutes and repeat in another 10-15 minutes.



> When he is out of his crate we are playing with him, but he will pee/poo out of nowhere without any signs (sniffing, circling etc.). However sometimes he runs off to poo, and by the time one of us has caught up to him, it's too late. My daughter tried to startle him once and even picked him up to take him out and he simply continued to go.


They will continue to go when you pick them up because they don't have the bladder control yet to stop mid stream...lol. If he's running off to pee by himself and you haven't caught up to him yet, he's being given too much freedom in the house. That's why I would anticipate him needing to go potty before it happens. If you take him out every half hour during the day, he's bound to eventually go outside. You can also tether the puppy to you so you can redirect him immediately.



> There is no rythme or reason with this dog. Sometimes he even poos or pees on our mini schnauzers indoor potty..But we think he does it to drive our puppy up the wall.


LOL! Puppies don't try to intentionally drive anyone up the wall. They just do. It's part of their charm. It really is like having a newborn baby. He's only been alive 10 weeks. You have to teach him what to expect. Get rid of the smell with an enzyme cleaner (ie, Nature's Miracle) so he doesn't keep going in the same spot. At this point, he may not know it's bad to go in the house because he's not being redirected properly. And if you come own on him harshly for a basic biological need, you're going to make him go to the bathroom behind your back.

Also, you can't have an indoor potty for one dog and expect another dog not to use it when that is where they smell the urine/feces. I'm not a fan of pee pads for dogs unless you're in a high-rise. I don't like getting a dog used to going potty inside.



> Compared to our 10 week old puppy, he just seems wild and untrainable. Of course they are different breeds. We are all first time dog owners so this is all new and VERY stressful. There is contradictory advice all over the internet about potty training and crate training. ?


It certainly sounds stressful because of your other responsibilities and it's not your puppy. It's your daughters. The bulk of this responsibility should fall on her. It's not fair to dump it on you when you have your own dog to train. GSD are ridiculously smart, and they do want works. But they are also a mouthy, nippy breed that needs to be taught what is acceptable. What works for one puppy may not work for another so you're going to get different advice. But most of the advice on this board is good and it's specifically for this breed.

Good luck!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

You have an indoor potty and you have pee pads (typically treated with an attractant) in his crate... of course he thinks indoors is where potty time is suppose to happen.


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## Mareesey (Aug 25, 2016)

I know it is winter so it is a bit harder, I'm also not sure where you are located so it might not be as snowy. Playing with him will make him have to go. My last dog had this issue when we would play with her in the house (as a pup). Try playing with him outside or make sure you walk him and he goes outside before playing with him indoors. Mine would stop play and just pee on the floor when she was smaller so we had to make sure we ran with her and played with her a bit outside to make sure she went in the yard and then we would play with her indoors but also keep an eye. He won't give a lot of clues as to when he's going to go but he'll get the hang of it. Also clean the crate with something that will get rid of that smell in it. Just because we can't smell it doesn't mean he can't. Good luck!


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

You need to think of him as a baby - a baby you need to teach, he doesn't know anything unless you actually show him what it right, it takes time and patience and lots of praise. He won't get it right first time, it will take you to show him time and time again what you expect from with... without raising your voice, without punishing him... with patience and praise.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

First off, ditch the pads. They're useless as far as I'm concerned

You have a lot to do, but it's doable. You have to be willing to change everything you're doing right now

First off, crate. Crate for one hr. After an hr, take him out to go potty. Bring him in a play/ bond with puppy. This can be about 30mins. Within those 30mins, take him out every 10mins. I had this problem with my pup and had to take her out every 10mins. When you take him out, leash him and say "Go potty." Just say once or twice. When he goes, lots of praise and treats if possible, but mostly praise. Woh! Don't start heading inside right yet! Walk puppy around for another few mins to make sure it's all out. Too often people think their pup is done only to bring puppy inside to potty on the floor again "YOU JUST WENT!" they exclaim. Well, they don't always empty themselves all the way. If they don't go again, then you're probably ok

Once the 30mins are up, back into the crate. Give puppy some treats so he knows he's being good and the crate is a good thing

Remember, if you cannot guarantee 100% focus while puppy is out, then he HAS to be in the crate

Next, freedom time. You need to find a way to cordon off an area of your house. I had my living/ dining room sectioned off so pup had a 8x15' space to be in. If you do not have the ability to cordon off an area (open concept), then leash him to you

Next, accidents. If you're a pro, you won't allow them to happen, but we can all go into this with 10yrs of puppy raising experience. That said, they will happen. You need to just clean them up. Do NOT yell at puppy. Don't yell if you find a spot (dogs live in the moment so an accident from 5mins ago is forgotten by the time you see it). If you SEE it, scoop up puppy and take him outside and then say "go potty." Lots of praise if he goes

Next, outside time. This is NEVER done alone as a puppy. You can't throw him out there and think he'll entertain himself. GSDs are very owner loyal and want to be with their owner. You can get away with it when they're older, but never as a puppy. You need to be a part of outside time. Play with puppy and bond outside. You need to watch him go potty so you can praise him so he knows he did well

Biting. If he bites, say "no" and give him a toy. You can't just shove a toy in his face and walk away though. Give him a toy and play with it. Give some "good boy"s in there. (I'm iffy on this thinking they learn "bite owner to get playtime," but many people do this with success). The biting is normal puppy play. They explore with their mouths. It will diminish as they get older

All puppies are trainable. Some are just a lot more work than others

However, after saying all that, I think your daughter (owner) needs to step it up. It sounds like you have your hands too full to worry about caring for a puppy that your eldest daughter should be caring for. I'm not one for saying to get rid of puppies, but I think you may be in over your head on this having a baby and a toddler to take care of. You and eldest should have a talk about this pup


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## Poetess (Feb 7, 2018)

cdwoodcox said:


> Sounds like a whole lot of human error. Too bad the pup has to be the one forced to defecate in his own crate then trek through it just to beg to get out.
> Either tell your daughter "I am assuming she is grown and not the tween" to take responsibility for her pup. Or rehome the dog to someplace it can be properly cared for.


We were taking him out every 2 hours, based on research and puppy age, and he is never alone. The mess in the crate is always unexpected. But from what you guys are saying, it seems we will have to take him out every hour and ditch the pee pads. We are never mean to him or neglectful. It is just stressful and I was wanting some good advice which I got.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

Make sure you get enzyme cleaner and give the crate a very good clean so that no more odour lingers there.

German Shepherd puppies bite, they bite a lot, they WILL draw blood. This does not mean your puppy is mad or crazy or aggressive... this is NORMAL German Shepherd puppy behaviour. As said above... when puppy is biting give him a toy and play with him with the toy. The biting will get worse before it gets better - they start to improve around 15 weeks.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I taught mine to lick the blood up off my arms, it saved on paper towels. >


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Poetess said:


> cdwoodcox said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a whole lot of human error. Too bad the pup has to be the one forced to defecate in his own crate then trek through it just to beg to get out.
> ...


Yes, there were a couple posts posted between the time I clicked reply to the time I posted. Some things were cleared up from those posts. 
Sounds like a whole lot of stuff on your plate with two pups and a couple small children. Use the advice given and don't be afraid to stick around and ask as many questions as you have. Good luck.


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

My hands are also full of love marks from her "play". She even bitten through my nail, as you can see white spot on my thumb.

How else would you know, that you have purebred GSD? :laugh2:


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

A working line puppy does not "have" to bite to break skin, nor should they be allowed to. I have never allowed my pups to use me as a bite-rag. 

If you need better advice on this than just "redirect" seek out a qualified trainer. But, it's a complete myth that a working line shepherd should be allowed to bite people to break skin. It is relatively easy to stop this behavior, but you must be fair and consistent. 

Believe me, a mother dog, or other members of the pack, including other pups, would never allow a shepherd pup to bite them hard enough to break the skin. 

I think it's dangerous advice to tell anyone with a shepherd pup that biting this way is A-OK. Yes, it is completely normal for the pup to be doing this- he is just a pup and doesn't know any better, but the owner of the pup does not need to allow it to continue.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

No one in my house thought Max was normal- except for me lol! He wanted to bite and chew all the time. He was easily diverted to toys but it was a life style for awhile to divert him over to toys. No one was really happy for a while except for me. The kids could not play chase and no rough housing by adults because because max became incredibly carried away. This was normal puppy behavior but I had to still teach the max to behave and teach him we were not loins of meat he could sink his teeth into and crush our bones -he like to do that. He is a dream boat now. We argue over who gets to walk him and I make sure I take all the credit lol!


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

With house training a puppy, there are no hard and fast rules for how often to take the puppy outside. Some puppies can go every hour, some will need to go every 15 to 30 minutes, then go again in 5. You have to find what works for your puppy. Obviously 2 hours is too long a time for this particular pup. 

You need to set your puppy up for success, not failure. That means it's all up to you, not him. You need to take him out before there is an accident. It's a lot of work and a lot of lost sleep, but it will pay off eventually.

I disagree that another dog won't allow a puppy to bite them. We have always had older dogs with our puppies. Our older dogs would just yelp when bitten, maybe walk away if they were fed up. Normally they just put up with the crazy puppy. At some point, it seemed it was usually around 4 months of age, they dogs would start to correct the youngster, but not until that time. I'm sure all dogs are different, and some more tolerant than others. But I never saw an older dog correct a small puppy for biting during play. Just my experience, so that may not be true for everyone.

Please stop spraying the puppy. That isn't working and can make things even worse. Redirect him to toys or appropriate things to chew on. That, too takes time and patience. No one ever said that puppies are easy.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

My rule of thumb with a pup is......

Every 15 to 20 minutes after eating or drinking or even when they are out of the crate playing!

Moms


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Poetess said:


> My adult daughter bought a german shepherd puppy from a questionable breeder. Puppy had roundworms, and then caught parvo from our new dog. So you have a sick pup and you are blaming him for being a problem? You have to know that is not rational. Where is his owner?
> 
> Anyways, we are crate training him, he never lets us know he has to go until he has gone pee so much that when he scratches at the crate door pee is getting all over our floor. Same with poop, he will poop and then walk in it and lay in it, heck he will even eat it. In fact, today he ate it, then threw up and then ate THAT.How old is this puppy now? Why are you letting any of this happen?
> 
> ...



All things considered, this puppy should maybe have a new home. It sounds like no one in your house wants him, or likes him, and that is just no way for a pup to live.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

http://dogtrainingdunedin.co.nz/2017/08/29/things-they-wont-tell-you-about-getting-a-puppy/


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

Your family _might be_ dealing with the after-effects of conditions at the breeder's. Unless your daughter saw the puppies' environment and that it was very clean, the new pup might have been used to soiling in his crate.

Is the crate only just big enough for him to stand and turn around in? A crate that's too big won't work well for house-breaking.

My husband and I just got a puppy (one week ago) from a neighbor. The week has been fun and a real learning experience, but it has also felt like a month! We're both tired from broken sleep and constant vigilance on new pup. Whenever he has had "accidents" it has been because I forgot to get him out soon after 1) he eats/drinks, 2) he wakes from a nap, 3) he has been playing with us.

Many times, I have taken him outside and he has peed and pooped. I figure he can't possibly produce more poop. HaHA! When I take him out 15 minutes later, he might poop again. But he's doing it outside, with me watching him, _not inside on my floors_!

My goal is to keep him from making mistakes he can't help. That way I don't get upset with him, and he doesn't get frightened by me or confused about what I expect from him. 

When he's not in the crate, he is supervised. He is either leashed to me or kept in a confined area. We only use pee pads when he is confined in the downstairs bathroom, and he gets confined there only when my husband and I absolutely cannot guarantee being able to attend to him for at least 4 hours. We do this so he isn't forced to eliminate in his crate.

So far, the crate has remained unsoiled, and I suspect that the pee pads get wet from him knocking water out of his dish, and not from urine. Either way, he is not being scolded and we're being consistent and patient with him.

However, all this being said, I heartily agree with others who have said that the person who decided to bring this puppy home should be providing primary care and being responsible for it, not you. At the very least it needs to be an equitable partnership!

Keep reading the forum posts about puppy training and you will get very good advice. Hang in there! And if it so happens that this dog is too much for your household, you will do him a kindness by rehoming him to someone who can handle a GSD puppy. It is a lot of work, especially wth everything else you're doing.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I think depriving the kids and puppy from having fun because the puppy is not being trained to stop biting them is sad. It will leave a poor lifetime reflection of this breed with them if left unchecked. The kids and the puppy can never get this time back again. Stop the behavior and let them have fun. If you are not raising this puppy for sport or work, there is no need to redirect or put up with it. I highly suggest one of the methods mentioned in this link: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8333337-post1.html

What I have not seen posted and is very important is that dogs do learn from other dogs. I always have to laugh when I call an adult dog, and have it sit and a young dog of mine comes running, stops, looks at the adult dog, and sits too, all without training, just by copying what it sees another dog doing. If you are teaching or letting your Schnauzer puppy to use pee pads, this puppy is watching and trying to copy what the other one is doing especially if you are praising the other pup or simply not correcting them. He is trying to be a good boy. Look at it from his perspective.

As somebody else already pointed out, I would suspect the puppy was raised in less than sanitary conditions. Is there any chance of you getting an indoor/outdoor exercise pen? It might help. I think with your pup's unsanitary habits that giving him some room to encocurage him to keep himself clean could be of value.


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