# +1 to TOTW



## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

My breeder suggested Eukenuba the first year for my pup and then recommended me to switch to TOTW after a year old. Well I've been doing that since he was 8 weeks old until he was 13 weeks old (two weeks ago). When he was on Eukenuba, he would not eat every 3rd or 4th meal, and I had to add warm water to his meal or he wouldn't eat it. I switched to TOTW, its been two weeks and he hasn't missed a meal yet. He scarfs it down. Lately, I've added a teaspoon of plain yogurt to every meal. Of course he loves that too. As of this morning, I am adding a raw egg to his meal twice a week. He scarfed down that as well.

Basically, its just a review that TOTW is 1000x better than Eukenuba, the end.

Edit* Also, on the Eukenuba, Damian would go to the bathroom 3 times a day and it was just disgusting. 
With the TOTW, he goes twice, and its actually healthy looking, (if thats possible) lol.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I agree TOTW is a good food. 
However, when contacted, the manufacturer recommended NOT feeding it to large breed puppies as the calcium levels are high.
My grown dogs still get TOTW, but the pups get Canidae Chicken/Rice.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ch3ckpo1nt.
> 
> Basically, its just a review that TOTW is 1000x better than Eukenuba, the end.


no doubt about that, but it is poorly designed for large breed puppies, imo.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

dogfoodanalysis.com is excellent.


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## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

Really? I asked for some opinions from people on here before and alot of people insisted be to switch to TOTW now. If the calcium levels are high, I may just quit feeding him the added yogurt for the time being.


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## KG K9 (Dec 8, 2009)

I just took my pup off of TOTW HP. He was only on it for one week=5lb bag, but the calcium seemed too high. Since EVO had it on their website to NOT feed it and CORE too, I figured TOTW was the same, even if there were less amounts.

I went with Innova Adult Large Bite because they didn't have Large Breed Puppy in a 6.6lb bag. He just had his first meal with it and gobbled it up better than TOTW IMO. So I will see how he does for the week, and if results seem good I will buy the larger bag of LB Puppy they do carry. Of course I may continue with the Adult Innova. 

Wellness was just too expensive, and Innova is about the same as TOTW.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I heard that TOTW was not a good choice for puppies also. My dogs have done really well on it and then suddenly they refused to eat it. I have to wonder at their quality consistency.

There are many other good foods out there that are appropriate for puppies.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I think a few people got this message from TOTW as a reply to inquiries as to whether it is an appropriate food for GSD puppies.......

from TOTW staff member.....

*"The TOW formulas are approved by AAFCO to meet all the nutrient requirements for all life stages. AAFCO recognizes 3 life stages:
growth, maintenance, gestation/lactation. If a formula meets the nutrient requirements for all three of these stages it is given the "all life stage" approval.

The large/ giant breed puppies have different considerations. This population genetically maybe predisposed to juvenile orthopedic disorders, like hip/elbow dysplasia, osteochondrosis. These diseases have been found to be polygenic and multifactorial, meaning that several genes are involved and that other factors (like diet) affect the development. Clinical studies have shown that controlling the amount of calcium and energy in large breed puppy formulas will decrease the incidence of these diseases in that population. There are genetic registries, like the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and Penn Hip, that record pedigree information and tie it to hip dysplasia and other genetic disorders.

If a puppy is predisposed for the juvenile orthopedic disorders, then a large breed puppy formula might be a better choice. (We make several different product lines, with different features and there are several choices for a LB pup formula- just not a grain free formula, if that's what you need) Other product lines are: Diamond Naturals, Premium Edge, Chicken Soup.

Ca in the WL and HP is 2.1% and PS 1.9% (as fed). These are above what is recommended in the literature (.7-1.2%)

Hope this helps.

Janet L. Rettenmaier, DVM, MS
Director of Veterinary Services
Diamond Pet Foods
Meta, MO 65058
ph.. 573-229-4203"*

I was going to feed my puppies the TOTW. But after reading the above changed my mind. 
Canidae Chicken/Rice has 1.2% calcium. My youngsters are on it and look great, small stools, no gas, and they wolf it down every meal.


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## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

Sigh. I now have a full 30 LBS bag of TOTW, I will see some other opinions on the situation until deciding what to do.


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## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

What do you guys think about Fromm? I've heard Grain Free is important, but I also know alot of you are using Fromm? This is a puppy kibble.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1469&cat=4


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

If you are looking for a large breed puppy grain-free, Orijen has one. Will the store let you return the TOTW?


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## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

I highly doubt it. I empty the bag into a rolling bin. Its probably 1/4- 1/3 gone.


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## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

Isn't the protein levels a bit high in the Orijen? I walk him for awhile daily, but I don't necessarily run him enough for those levels.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

If you still have the bag, can you put it back in and then return? I've had opened bags before of food they didn't like when I've tested different food. Of course 1/4 - 1/3 might be a lot gone.....but normally food has guarantees if your dog likes it or whatever...and if you are worried about the ca/ph then that should count as a reason to return....i would think.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ch3ckpo1ntIsn't the protein levels a bit high in the Orijen? I walk him for awhile daily, but I don't necessarily run him enough for those levels.


It is higher, but if you wanted grain free that is the only LB Puppy I know of. Wasn't sure if you were familiar with it. If you don't mind some grains, then Holistic Selects has a LB Formula for puppies

http://www.holisticselect.com/dog-dry-lamb-meal-oatmeal-recipe.shtml


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## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

The bag is gone anyway, the cost isn't an issue if it keeps my dog healthy, however, I want to make sure I do thorough research this time before switching so I do not make this kind of mistake again.


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## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

I never thought it would be so difficult to select a dog food, I think there is a small chance that someone is always going to disagree with any food anyone chooses, just a small chance, lol.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Totally understand! I've done that with bags and thrown them out...then the dogs were like NO WAY! The ph/ca levels seem pretty normal on that holistic selects. Angeles was on Iams Large Breed Puppy for a couple of months and he did very well on it. then I started switching and his system got a bit upset. But between 5 and 6 months I was able to get him to an adult formula and his system settled down. I don't feed him a Large Breed formula by the way. The only difference I can really see in many of them is the addition of Glucosamine and Chondrotin...at least what I've looked at to date.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ch3ckpo1ntI never thought it would be so difficult to select a dog food, I think there is a small chance that someone is always going to disagree with any food anyone chooses, just a small chance, lol.


Each dog is different, so whatever you can find that works for your dog and he enjoys - then you probably have a winner!


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## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

I may just stick to the TOTW. He seems to really love it. Never even thinks to turn away for a second until its gone. His stools seem fine, I dunno. The protein levels seem pretty good (32%). I guess calcium levels could be a bit lower, but I just don't see how a 1% difference it going to cause hip/joint issues alone.


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## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

Thanks for your advice btw.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

you are welcome!

Here is something you may want to read about bone development and skeletal disease with excess calcium...

http://www.amstaff.net/HD1.html

"Excess energy and calcium are known risk factors; therefore, the level of these nutrients in the food should be near the Association of American Feed Control Officials minimum requirement."


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## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm trying to read it, its gibberish lol.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ch3ckpo1ntI may just stick to the TOTW. He seems to really love it. Never even thinks to turn away for a second until its gone. His stools seem fine, I dunno. The protein levels seem pretty good (32%). I guess calcium levels could be a bit lower, but I just don't see how a 1% difference it going to cause hip/joint issues alone.


i look at TOTW as having about 33% increase in Ca over what is desirable (2% vs 1.5%). when the % of something is already that small, just .5% is more significant than if you were talking about a 1% difference in protein when those are in the 25-40% range,


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ch3ckpo1ntI guess calcium levels could be a bit lower, but I just don't see how a 1% difference it going to cause hip/joint issues alone.


wellness warns people away from their most expensive food at the cost of losing customers who want only to feed grain free. here is a section from their FAQ: (and TOTW/Diamond seem to concede this stuff is valid based on the email Mary posted above. they simply choose to not post the information openly on their website or packaging, which IMO is irresponsible)

* Q: Why is CORE Dog listed as appropriate for maintenance but CORE Cat is listed as all life-stages including cats and kittens? *_

A: We feel very strongly about providing only proven nutrition to your dog. Research has shown that large breed puppies should not be fed a diet that is over 1.3 – 1.5% Calcium or they run a significant risk of developing bone abnormalities. If we listed our CORE Dog diets as suitable for all life stages, we would be irresponsible – knowing inevitably that large breed puppies may be fed these diets (by no fault of their loving owners). _ 

*Q:  I have heard that some of these high protein diets can’t be fed to large breed puppies. Why? *_

A: Research has shown that large breed puppies should not be fed a diet that is over 1.3 – 1.5% Calcium or they run a significant risk of developing bone abnormalities. Many of the high protein diets on the market today are well in excess of 1.5% Calcium. We do not recommend any large breed puppies be fed our CORE dog diets, or any of the other high protein diets on the market today. In fact, we would conservatively say that puppies in general should not feed higher protein diets that exceed 1.5% Calcium. Again, this is why we feature a maintenance claim and promote the diet for dogs over 1 year in age._ 

sure, there are people who go ahead and feed the grainless foods to their pups anyway. my take is why risk it when their are plenty of good foods well designed for our pups. i see no harm in waiting until our dogs are 1+ yrs old to start a grainless kibble.


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## rapnek74 (Mar 19, 2009)

This is just some of the meds that we gave Trauma after getting a bad bag of TOTW. Hopefully it doesn't happen to any of you guys.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

What are all those shots? How horrible! How is he doing now?


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## rapnek74 (Mar 19, 2009)

Different antibiotics. Those were just for 2 days of the 5 he was getting them. It was a rough weekend but now all is better.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

I remember now! Sorry - my memory is not what it used to be. I'm glad he is doing better. And sorry to hear he went through all that for a bag of food. The lady at Kumpi told me she hears stories just like this all the time - she NEVER gave out the names of the brands of food. Kumpi was always a great food for my dogs - but with some budget issues I went to a different food. So far so good - I did not go to TOTW.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

My dogs got sick on TOTW as well this past summer. We switched to BB. 

To the OP: if you decide to change foods and don't want to waste the TOTW use a small amount of it withe the other food til it is gone.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

We raised our most recent puppy on the Wellness Super 5 Large Breed Puppy, which is readily available at the PetCo here and we were really happy with it. Actually the whole litter was raised on it and the breeder switched the parents to the adult version since she was so happy with it. She had tried TOTW but the dogs got horrible diarrhea, and we had a similar experience when we tried it for Argos. There is no perfect food for all dogs.

I know it's not grain free, but it is a highly regarded food (5 stars on Dog Food Analysis). 

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=2205&cat=all


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: rapnek74This is just some of the meds that we gave Trauma after getting a bad bag of TOTW. Hopefully it doesn't happen to any of you guys.


How do you know it was TOTW? Was the food tested? What was in it?
JC...my dogs stopped eating it altogether.


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## rapnek74 (Mar 19, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: rapnek74This is just some of the meds that we gave Trauma after getting a bad bag of TOTW. Hopefully it doesn't happen to any of you guys.
> ...


We didn't test the food... I was so upset with the food I put it in the trash since I didn't have the bag. I always put it in a container and threw the bag away (I have since stopped doing that) The food was of different color than the previous bag. Trauma is also allergic to chicken which at one point they were saying there was chicken introduced to the PS formula. TOTW sent me an email saying several dogs had gotten sick from this BAD BATCH as they called it. It was the vets opinion that it was from the food. 

I sent TOTW several emails after the original and they would not respond to any of them. Both times he vomited prior to him getting really sick it was nothing but food. After that he stopped eating and it was mostly water he vomited since he would only drink. We got him to the vet right away where they did several sets of x-rays all showing nothing blocking his intestines. They were full of gas but nothing else. After several days of IV's and antibiotics we started him on Hill's ID food in small amounts. On the 5th day he finally had a BM which we checked and nothing was in it.... just in case it was something that would not show up on x-rays. 

TOTW told the retailers to pull all the food with a certain date. If there was nothing wrong with it why pull it? TOTW also has 150 quality checks before it leaves the company. If those checks were done how did it leave the company? TOTW's original email told me they would refund the money for the food if I had the bag but after that I got no return emails. I will never feed another food that DIAMOND puts on the market. Sad thing is there are several foods that they produce under a different name. I also read on another forum a letter from TOTW that said they were having problems with getting the size correct with a formula change... Too fishy for me to trust them again. It's like they were trying to cover up the problem instead of admitting they screwed up.


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