# biting 15 month GSD



## bluesmum (Aug 9, 2009)

Hi everyone, Im new to this board and have enjoyed reading other posts, just wondering if someone has some help for me.
I have a 15month old GSD who has been castrated, his behaviour at the moment is apalling!! He has always been a "mouthy" pup and we never have been able to stop it, we have had lots of help from his breeder but to no avail, we have tried the yelping, turning our back, time out in his crate, training discs, gentle stopping, rough stopping, literally you name it we have tried it!!!
The biggest problem we have is, he just goes for me around the house, when I take him for a walk. My breeder recommended a Halti collar which I now use , but he can still attack me. Im sat here typing this covered in bruises and welts from the latest time.It was so bad this time I had to tie him to a garden bench while he calmed down, I managed a bit further then he started again so this time he got tied to a lampost but in the process of doing that I had to turn my back on him so he bit the top of my arm. My husband can control him a bit more but not much!!. He bites but not as hard as he bites me.
A bit of his background-we have had him since he was 8 weeks old, well socialised, took him to puppy school, then further training until he was 7 months old and then he needed spinal surgery which resulted in him being crate rested for a couple of months and no interaction with other dogs, he is very dominant and always has been, even at puppy school he was the one being the most boisterous!!
We dont allow him on the furniture or bed, he is fed after us, we do not spoil him but I really dont know what to do.
But I can no longer walk him, I make sure he has excersize in the garden but after about 5 minutes of throwing the ball he will go for me and I can not stop him, even if my husband grabs him he will still go for me.
He still has issues with his back and we can not walk him for too long anyway, we actually thought that may have been the problem originally, we thought he may have been sore and the only way to stop the walk was to attack me but it happens randomly, but a lot of the time it is triggered by me not allowing him to do what he wants to do. I feed him and he does not food guard, I can take his food/toys away no problem. He is pretty good with strangers although a bit guarded at times. ok with the vet, had hydrotherapy and was ok with her although the more he got to know her he got a little bit more mouthy.
Im sorry this is a very long post but as you can imagine I am very worried, it concerns me also that someone may see him attacking me and report him.
Thank you, Suzie


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Wow! you definitely have a predicament......

have you had him evaluated by a Trainer/behaviorist?

i think i would muzzel him and start all the training from square one. get him back into classes work with a trainer, etc.

What kind of spinal issues did he have?

when you walk him and he starts bitting what do you do? i would make him go into a down position, if he doesn't do it by himself, i would step on the leash and make him do it. the down position is a submissive position, and sort of a time out position when they aren't paying attention or they are not behaving. it sounds like he doesn't view you as a strong leader, so you may want to get some info on that.

debbie


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i also meant to add, that it sounds like he needs some mental stimulation where he has physical limitations and you cannot tire him out from physical exercise. he has made a game out of biting you, so you need to change his focus, you can play find games with him. he cannot do two things at once. so, if you distract him with something else that is fun for him. you may even want to get him into tracking which is less taxing on the dog physically and more mentally stimulating. so you are reprogramming him to focus on something else besides biting. i would definitely get some help from a qualified trainer to help you redirect his behavior. if you can't find a good trainer at a local training facility, you may be able to get some help from the local SchH club.

debbie


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

He just sounds like a normal bored GSD who's decided his favorite game is what most of our dogs love when left to their own devices.............BITE EVERYTHING!!! 

It's exciting to watch the humans yelp yell and run. In the 'even negative attention is better than no attention' framework, the painful biting is reinforced for the dog.

I'd really try to find a better way to exercise your dog. Strengthening the muscles will stengthen the spine. And CLEARLY your dog generally feels fine if he's able to be so boisterous. So, while you don't want to reinjure him, long distance trotting, SWIMMING, and other exercise sounds possible.

I'd also figure out someway to mentally interact with him. Personally I'd suggest a 'game' you BOTH need to learn and while learning your dog is never wrong and always getting treats!

Clicker training! Best if you had classes somewhere in the area. But there's alot available on line. Since this works on killer whales and sea lions, we can't use the excuse it won't work with dogs!

http://www.clickertraining.com/whatis

http://www.clickandtreat.com/Clicker_Training/ClickStart/clickstart.htm

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm#basic

http://www.clickertrainusa.com/learningtheoryschedules.htm


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## Nadia (Aug 5, 2009)

Hey Suzie, I feel for you. 

I have a similar situation with my dog. Boisterous dog, gives me bruises every day, attacks randomly...
Im getting him a muzzle and doing basic training with him again. I also recommend a dog behavourist, theyre expensive but if you dont get it sorted now then it will possibly get worse when the dog gets stronger. 
I also agree with the above posts that using mental stimulation should calm him and keep him distracted. I just got my dog out of the kennel and the trainer stated that a good long session (spilt up with breaks inbetween) of training will tire a dog out more then an hours walk. Make sure you have tasty treats too!

I sent you a PM anyways


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

A true, full bore, NILIF will probably bring your dog around.
(start by ignoring him for a week except for feeding, watering and letting out. don't make eye contact. everyone in the house has to do this. He's being ostracized. then make him work for everything. Sit to go out, down for dinner, something to be petted, something to play a game of tug or fetch - the guy gets nothing without working for it.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

Why did your young pup need spinal surgery?









Your situaiton sounds extremely difficult to me. We worked on our pups mouthing from day one by constantly giving him appropriate things to chew on like marrow bones, nylon bones for powerful chewers, etc. And, when Sirius would start to mouth our hands/arms/feet/legs, a very quick and firm "no bite" followed by immediately putting in his mouth the things he's allowed to bite accompanied with lots of praise. When he licks instead of bite, I reinforce with the word "kisses" and lots of praise. I can now tell Sirius kisses and he licks.

As some have suggested, I would find a trainer who's highly skilled with behavior issues. I wouldn't wait b/c your situation sounds dangerous to me. GSD our powerful and do you want your dog muzzled for the rest of his life?

I hope you can get your issue resolved. Please share with us what's developing with your GSD. Please be safe and find someone to help you work with your dog.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i am sure the issue can be resolved with the right guidence and lots of time, work, and consistancy. its nice to get ideas from the folks on this board, but for you to get the right info, i highly suggest a professional for you to work with, someone who can eval your dog, see how you interact, pick up on some signals you might be giving to your dog while seeing you in person. all the suggestions are great, but we can't be there to see whats going on. if you pursue a professional training/behaviorist and follow through with the info, i have no doubt things can turn around, and as someone suggested, i wouldn't wait.

best of luck to you








debbie

debbie


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## bluesmum (Aug 9, 2009)

Thanks everyone, he had spinal surgery due to a bulging disc ,apparently common in GSD, genetic rather than hereditary.
My next step is to see a behaviorist with vet backing (because of his back) and go from there. I totally agree he needs something else to focus/work on. Its just finding something that does the trick. Im prepared to work hard for him, I really am. I wanted to do agility with him for that very reason but obviously that had to be abandoned but he does like to track, its finding the right options for him, thanks for all your tips and advice, I will keep you posted.


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## lixy (Mar 14, 2007)

The book Ruff Love by Susan Garrett goes through the steps of some pretty hardcore NILIF...this book (along with an animal behaviorist) would probably be helpful for your situation.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Hi Suzie,

We have a dog, Baron our now 19+ month old male GSD, with a similiar habit. We got him at 7 weeks old. I know, it was a little too young to take him from his littermates and mother for him to really learn bite inhibition; but our breeder kind of insisted and so we caved in.

Baron has always been a "mouthy" dog with him grabbing my wife and I. He is usually a very gentle dog until he decides he wants to mouth. Now, he doesn't bite or apply very much pressure so I wouldn't call what he does biting; but rather really mouthing but it can still hurt if he does it as he is moving1

he is not nearly as bad as it sounds you are going thru. Like someone else already said, we have tried everything that a great many people have suggested and what we have used very successfully with earlier dogs - "Ouch" or a "yelp" and ignoring him, corrections and punishment of increasing severity (he usually comes back harder then thinking that you are playing with him), timeouts, scruff shakes, nothing works very well. I have also used the command "kisses" as some one else also mentioned and about 2/3 of the times when I use it, he will stop mouthing and start licking. 

I THINK that he is getting a little better as he gets a little older and hope it continues.

Most of the time I can see a certain "Look" in his eye when he is getting a little crazy and I know if I reach down to pet him, he will start mouthing; while most of the time he is fine and likes to be petted.

He will also roll on his back and invte me to scratch his belly and then he will start mouthing (with a seemingly evil grin on his doggy face). He usually doesn't mouth the many new people that he meets - seems like you have to be his good friend in order for him to do this. The little 9 y/o girl, who lives next door and her friend thought it was hilarious when Baron did it to them.

I agree with the rest of the advice here - see a really good experienced trainer or an animal behaviorist who is famliar with GSD's.

And let us know of your progress - your dog can and will be "fixed"


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## bluesmum (Aug 9, 2009)

Hi, he is seeing a behaviorist / trainer soon and we have got him booked in for some swimming (introducing some fun)
His behaviour has improved over the last couple of days and little steps is what we are hoping.
He went to the specialist vets yesterday and they say he is still in some discomfort from his back/rear leg, not sure which is the cause, chicken and egg scenario, but I think it is linked to his temperament so if we can manage his exersize better and see the signs quicker it can only help, his worst case is to have another op on his back or to remove the muscle (petineus???) but Im hoping swimming may help, he did have some hydrotherapy sessions but I dont think they helped, size of pool etc.
It is good ( in a sadistic kind of way) to know that others have gone through and are still going through a similiar issue to mine.
Glad I found this website.
Good luck Suzie


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## bluesmum (Aug 9, 2009)

Hi all. thought Id give you an update, We had a behaviourist around and her opinion is- he is not aggressive just DESPERATE to play and obviously the games we were playing were not adequate ( we did play but I think we were too boring, worrying about his back etc.) we now play tug, give him more mental stimulation with the games, making him earn everything-NILIF, it seems to be working!!!
In the last 2 weeks, I think he has bitten me maybe 2-3 times and by distracting him with a toy or leaving the room without saying anything other than ouch it has not escalated.
We have started a swimming routine and that helps and we are starting a new training course tomorrow, schutzhund and working trials (probably without the agility side) to hopefully work his mind as well as his body!!
It sounds quite pathetic really to know that these simple things could be the answer but it seems to be doing the trick!
By the way, the behaviourist did go away with a souvenier-a bruise!!!
Thanks for all your tips.


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## Effie325 (Aug 19, 2009)

That's great!!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:It sounds quite pathetic really to know that these simple things could be the answer but it seems to be doing the trick!


Not pathetic, that's GREAT NEWS!


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## rucker105 (May 19, 2008)

Hi Suzie,

I've been away from the forum for a while, but I read through your posts, and honestly I have gone through the same thing with my young male. He's going on 14 months, and has made HUGE improvements in his behavior.

Just as codmaster said, they get that "look" in their eyes...and you can just tell they are going into that obnoxious mode that leaves you bruised and frustrated. My boy hasn't gone into that mode in well over a month now! 

Turns out he also needed more mental and physical exercise, and more DISCIPLINE! He was bored, and even though he always ended up in his crate afterwards, he seemed to enjoy the game while it lasted. I tried everything to stop it, but the best way to stop it is to PREVENT it from even starting. I've kept him so busy, he doesnt have the energy to act out. If for some reason I can't run him til he's too tired to move, I supply him with plenty of chew toys, bully sticks, etc. 

I'm glad to hear things have gotten better! Believe me I was at rock bottom (covered in bruises, welts, and emotionally drained), but that's when you really have to step it up and get focused. NILIF to the extreme! He's a dominant boy, as yours seems to be as well, but the thing to keep in mind with dominant dogs is that you can't just establish yourself as leader when they're young and expect them respect you as they mature...its an ongoing process.

Feel free to PM me, I could discuss this topic at length!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:Turns out he also needed more mental and physical exercise, and more DISCIPLINE! He was bored, and even though he always ended up in his crate afterwards, he seemed to enjoy the game while it lasted. I tried everything to stop it, but the best way to stop it is to PREVENT it from even starting. I've kept him so busy, he doesnt have the energy to act out. If for some reason I can't run him til he's too tired to move, I supply him with plenty of chew toys, bully sticks, etc.
























Think that can't be said any better for MOST of our pups!!!


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