# Easy Walk Harness - Good/Bad



## ViciousXUSMC (Feb 2, 2015)

I signed Nova up for an 8 week puppy class, today was our first class and no pets just the trainer going over things. I have a few criticisms but the one that is probably nagging me the most is the recommendation of the easy walk harness (for a puppy class not a adult dog class) I just wanted to share what I think and see if others agree/disagree

The trainer was all over the Easy Walk Harness, like "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET" I was looking at that product well before I got Nova and came to the conclusion that its not something you want to train your puppy for, its much better reserved for a problem dog that is beyond your scope to correct. 

My view is the harness is a bandaid to a dog that pulls rather than correcting the problem it masks it. I feel that since the reason we are at the class is to train our puppies right that the proper thing to do is teach not to pull with a collar.

She did not like regular collars, said they can hurt the dog too easy, she did not even mention a martingale collar, and she said if you must go with a regular collar that the least damaging is a prong collar.

I don't want to say that made the trainer lose face with me, but it kind of did so wonder if I am in the wrong for feeling this way about something pretty important.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Welcome to the world of dog obedience! I went three places when my dog was young to have my dog assessed and I learned info about Simon who is now 14 months. When Simon was 4.5 months, the Schutzhund trainer, who is very reputable, gave me insight about my dog's temperament--rebounds from correction well, but sensitive enough to not want to make a mistake twice in a row; good nerve--just a bit below what he likes in his personal dogs; will never come up the leash at you.

At 11 months, an AKC obedience judge and trainer/breeder of America Showline GSDs said his drives were kicking in and some of his dog reactivity was related to wanting to herd (herding dogs in pedigree). This lady used Koehler training methods. She said get off the prong and go to a choke chain as a prong doesn't teach a dog anything. (I still use a prong in public, but a choke chain at home--I am not yanking on him). I had told her that i wanted to use an ecollar, but on the phone she said that could ruin a nervous dog. I had told her about dog reactivity. After she worked with Simon, she said he'd be fine with an ecollar.

Right now I'm working with a behaviorist who has really helped me a lot with reading Simon's body language. She is all about "no unhappiness," but Simon wears a prong to our private lessons because I want him to. And well, I just don't tell her I use Lou Castle's protocols with an e-collar with Simon because basically, he was blowing me off when he didn't care about treats and now he obeys. The behaviorist is excellent at helping me communicate to Simon what I want so he is not confused about what is expected. Simon's dog reactivity has improved tremendously. 

What is has come down to is that I had to learn through trial and error what was best for the two of us. All dogs and handlers are different--so one size does not fit all. I was so worried when i got Simon at 9 weeks that I would screw him up if i didn't train him right. Now I see that I need to train him in a way that works--doesn't matter what others think . . .


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

The easy walk is a band aid and I don't think getting one for a pup is the right way to go, just my uneducated opinion. For some dogs and some owners it's a life saver.
Shadow gets hysterical about pressure on her neck, and her behavior made me wary of walking her at all since she had injured both of us repeatedly, and me permanently. The easy walk enabled me to safely walk her and we continue to work on behavior. 
For a pup I would start with a flat collar and go from there. If your trainer is only willing to work with certain tools, I would find a new trainer.


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

We used a harness for the first couple weeks of walks because it fit and the collar was too big... he tugged and pulled so hard (3.5 mo at time) when he was big enough for the collar we switched...and it was like we were walking a different dog... the dog that had been pulling, lying down and lunging suddenly was walking by my side and a very slight tug when he wasn't coming would get him by my side. It ended up hurting him far less in the long run because it was uncomforable before it hurt and learned what to do to stop it way quicker. I obviously don't know what it would be like for others but for us it was like night and day.

Edit: We switched only 2 weeks later, and the change was not from training...not for lack of trying lol


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Well, to put it in context, it is a puppy class. I have never heard of a prong, E collar or choke recommended for use on a puppy. That leaves the flat collar, which more than a few have problems with.

A puppy has a very short attention span and there is a huge new world out their when they are on their first walks. Virtually every collar available will not achieve your desired results unless you are also using verbal commands and ingraining habit and routine on what you want. 

Which collar do you see as being more appropriate for a puppy?


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

You would need prong collar much later, but you might never need it. Prong - is for correction of well learned commands, and that is mainly for very heavy dogs with strong sense of leadership. Your dog obeys you not because of prongs or other equipment, in fact, in order to train your dog to heel - you don't need any collar or leash. You have problem with contact with your dog, only you solve that - the rest should be easy. Her eyes must be constantly on you during training session. Then, if she doesn't run sufficiently before training - don't expect much from her: " .Obedient GSD is a tired GSD".
I use wide soft collar in combination with harness from year say 1985. You need both, harness and collar for training. You'd need traffic leash, 1,5 metre leash and 3 metres line. 
EzyDog ? Active Hound


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Hey David

My pup does ok on a regular collar walking through the neighborhood (where it's pretty quiet and boring), but she always ramps up when we are on the busy main street. She isn't shy or fearful that I can see, but there is a definite change, though she is just as used to the busy street as I included that as part of her walk since day one. She pulls on regular collar or prong there only.

So, I just got the Easy Walk in the mail 2 hours ago. My plan was to continue with the prong thru the neighborhood and go to the Easy Walk on the busy street only until I can get her slowed down a little?


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## Palydyn (Aug 28, 2014)

My trainer recommended an easy walk harness because Rommel was channeling his inner sled dog. As mentioned prongs and ecollars aren't really for 8 week old puppies. It worked fine and many of the people I respect on this forum responded that it was really okay to use and applicable to my situation. Now that Rommel is older we are transitioning to a more traditional harness. One thing I particularly liked was that you can attach the harness to the collar so that if your dog wiggles out of the harness you still have him/her. So it really works for leash fighters.


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

I hate those stupid things with a passion.

One, they are a crutch. People put them on and never really train the dog. Its like with any other thing, however these particular harnesses cause more damage than good, IMO.

Two, we've seen an increase in shoulder issues, particularly in younger large breed dogs. And I believe these harnesses are the culprit. They work by constricting shoulder movement. So essentially you are short striding the dog. Which is going to cause trouble down the road with how they move and how their joint functions. All the shoulder troubles lately really hit home on that one, IMO. If you want to use a harness, use a normal one or use a Freedom Harness if you are going for something that causes some constriction. That one at least goes over the actual shoulder joint, even if it still constricts the movement. 

With a young puppy like that, I would just go with a regular harness that isn't constricting and work with that rather than a collar. If they can't learn to pull on a collar, hopefully they won't do it when you use one.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

The first video clip is how I train and what I do with every dog I work with! Slip leash is the only tool I train with, so far so good! 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I've used the easy walk harness in the past and love it. It is not a band aide if used correctly. It's no different then using anything else as a tool. I do not like the regular harnesses at all, they do nothing and I can see them causing damage because the dog will continue to pull and pull. There is no pressure on the neck from the pup pulling, in fact neither of mine that I used it on even tried to pull. It controls their body. 

I recommend it, but like anything it's a tool. You use it and then you work towards not using it, like a prong.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

To Stonevintage:
Sorry, I cannot copy words from your post to reply.
Turn back 20-25 steps every time she pulls as many times as necessary. Can you whistle short tunes? Or click with your tongue? Or you may use a signal for a cat "Puss-ss-s!" Dogs react on hissing sounds really well. That would be an indication for her: "You are pulling. We will turn backwards if you wouldn't heel properly". Work a bit longer on that section of your way. Then, dogs live by their expectations. She expects to pull there and does it automatically. Train sudden stops and turns in that section. A good exercise could be walking and heeling alongside of a wall or a building, bring your dog to the wall as close as possible so the distance between you and her would be minimal. Train "heel" off leash more often, I believe that collars could be nothing but an obstruction to understand what is required for many dogs. Heeling on a leash and off leash are two different things, but if you try just walking distances and heeling off leash - that will help a lot.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I have used the easy walk a lot. For my clients that are pullers, where I am not being paid to train them to walk loose leash. Sometimes the owners don't bring adequate harnesses or collars,etc... So for the dog's safety and my own, I use an easy walk harness, and hook up two leashes, one to the collar, one to the harness so that they can't escape from me because, that would... Be bad obviously. For captain I used the easy walk when I first got him, but worked quickly to get him on loose leash walking. Right now he is using a wide flat collar, and a backpack on our walks. The leash is attached to his collar but, there is almost no pull because he does walk by my left side without pulling now. Today we walked for 45 minutes with him by my side not pulling. Like someone said, the easy walk is a great tool, but with all tools, the ultimate goal is to not rely solely on them, and to graduate out of using them.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

David Taggart said:


> To Stonevintage:
> Sorry, I cannot copy words from your post to reply.
> Turn back 20-25 steps every time she pulls as many times as necessary. Can you whistle short tunes? Or click with your tongue? Or you may use a signal for a cat "Puss-ss-s!" Dogs react on hissing sounds really well. That would be an indication for her: "You are pulling. We will turn backwards if you wouldn't heel properly". Work a bit longer on that section of your way. Then, dogs live by their expectations. She expects to pull there and does it automatically. Train sudden stops and turns in that section. A good exercise could be walking and heeling alongside of a wall or a building, bring your dog to the wall as close as possible so the distance between you and her would be minimal. Train "heel" off leash more often, I believe that collars could be nothing but an obstruction to understand what is required for many dogs. Heeling on a leash and off leash are two different things, but if you try just walking distances and heeling off leash - that will help a lot.


I've been stopping with her every 15 feet or so. Originally, I turned and walked the opposite direction, that didn't work. On the busy street there are alcoves (doorways leading to businesses) every 25 feet or so. I put her there at a sit and stand in front of her with my back to her for "resets". She'll be calm and fine for the next 25 feet or so - then she's right back into it. In all cases her nose is constantly to the ground, she could have a UFO with little green doggies disembarking on her shoulder and would not notice them. I use the "hissing" sound and she responds to it well until her head goes to ground and she is pulling and sniffing. I swear - if I could disengage her "scenting" life would be good.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> I have used the easy walk a lot. For my clients that are pullers, where I am not being paid to train them to walk loose leash. Sometimes the owners don't bring adequate harnesses or collars,etc... So for the dog's safety and my own, I use an easy walk harness, and hook up two leashes, one to the collar, one to the harness so that they can't escape from me because, that would... Be bad obviously. For captain I used the easy walk when I first got him, but worked quickly to get him on loose leash walking. Right now he is using a wide flat collar, and a backpack on our walks. The leash is attached to his collar but, there is almost no pull because he does walk by my left side without pulling now. Today we walked for 45 minutes with him by my side not pulling. Like someone said, the easy walk is a great tool, but with all tools, the ultimate goal is to not rely solely on them, and to graduate out of using them.


Sorry, but I do not agree with your training methods. I saw the video.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

To Stonevintage:
Cats! That is one possible smell she experiences, she expects to see that what she saw there once, maybe it was a chick, or a rat. She is hunting something there. In this case - you cannot remove her natural drive, you can only redirect it. Wrong place to start playing ball, but you can organize it for her to find some toy there. In any case, it could be better to know with what sort of small animals her reaction is stronger and train to ignore them. You are working on "heel" with distraction then, it wouldn't be different if she pulls seeing another dog, the difference is that the object is invisible. Anyway, command "Heel!" if she forgets, she should heel doesn't matter what - dogs, cats, birds flying from under your feet, earthquake, she must walk sticking to your left.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

OK! My area has a huge wild cat problem. She has also made it her life's goal recently to eliminate the squirrels in our yard and the sit in the trees just above her and egg her on.

I think tomorrow, I will start over pretty much and treat train her to heel off leash in the yard then move it to toy reward. This, I know we can do. She has turned out to be super high prey drive. I understand that her ball on the cord may be something that I can pull out of my pocket to distract her and get her to move past the scent? She lives for the ball. The one on the tether I can let her have a few munches on as a reward and then put it back in my pocket for the next time when I'm walking her and she "scents"?


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> OK! My area has a huge wild cat problem. She has also made it her life's goal recently to eliminate the squirrels in our yard and the sit in the trees just above her and egg her on.
> 
> I think tomorrow, I will start over pretty much and treat train her to heel off leash in the yard then move it to toy reward. This, I know we can do. She has turned out to be super high prey drive. I understand that her ball on the cord may be something that I can pull out of my pocket to distract her and get her to move past the scent? She lives for the ball. The one on the tether I can let her have a few munches on as a reward and then put it back in my pocket for the next time when I'm walking her and she "scents"?


If you're going to use a high value reward, make sure you're using it to catch the correct behavior and not accidentally rewarding the wrong behavior. What you would want to do if you're using the toy is reward while she is walking nicely BEFORE she starts scenting. If you save it to get her attention when she starts scenting, you will actually be reinforcing her scenting the ground. To us, it may look like 1) she starts scenting 2) you get her attention back 3) you reward with the ball. But to the dog, if the ball is only used or mostly used AFTER she has started scenting and then looks back at you, she may start to think scenting the ground is part of what you want - not unbroken periods of loose leash walking.

For a toy driven dog like her, I would save the reward for when she is walking nicely - mark and reward loose leash and especially attention or "check-ins". If she pulls, interrupt her and stop the walk if you need to reset her. But don't give a high value reward until you've gotten some loose leash walking out of her.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I was going to reward her after I had gotten her off a scent and she was again walking nicely. Are you saying reward her with the ball all the time she is not scenting? That will leave her with a ball in her mouth for over 60% of our walk?


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I've used the easy walk harness in the past and love it. It is not a band aide if used correctly. It's no different then using anything else as a tool. I do not like the regular harnesses at all, they do nothing and I can see them causing damage because the dog will continue to pull and pull. There is no pressure on the neck from the pup pulling, in fact neither of mine that I used it on even tried to pull. It controls their body.
> 
> I recommend it, but like anything it's a tool. You use it and then you work towards not using it, like a prong.


I agree. The EasyWalk is only a bandaid if the handler uses it as a bandaid. It is an effective tool if you use it as a training tool. 

Really, the big thing I stress with people who are interested in it is that the harness is not going to do anything to train their dog. Training is still on them, the harness can just make a larger or more powerful dog more manageable. I have heard of the shoulder issue with the harness altering the dog's gait, but I have a feeling this happens with people who use it as a bandaid and not a tool - the ones that let their dogs drag them down the street slanted sideways in the Easy Walk. I know by the time my students leave puppy class, for those who have done the work, the Easy Walk is only a safety - other than exceptional situations, the puppy is walking on a loose leash by their side with no pressure on the harness.

I have also used the Freedom harness, SENSEation harness, Gentle Leader, Canny Collar, and Thunder Leash. It all depends on what works best for the dog and handler - if they even need the tool. Some don't. Either way, the purpose of the tool is not to teach the dog how to walk. It's to give the handler a way to manage the dog while they teach the dog how to walk.

To the OP, I trained my puppy on a flat collar for quite a while. We did the Easy Walk for a month or two when he decided to be a leash demon and I was solidifying leash walking skills in distracted environments. Then we dumped it. Find what works for you and your dog. If the trainer won't let you experiment with going without tools or going with a tool they wouldn't normally use, maybe they aren't the trainer to go with. Life is too short to stick with a trainer who is petty about their tools and techniques.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> I was going to reward her after I had gotten her off a scent and she was again walking nicely. Are you saying reward her with the ball all the time she is not scenting? That will leave her with a ball in her mouth for over 60% of our walk?


I just meant make sure you aren't rewarding right after she gets off a scent. It's usually where I see a toy reward go wrong in 99% of leash walking. It wasn't clear to me how you were going to set up the reward, so I just wanted to mention it. Rewarding during a loose leash walk after getting her off a scent should be fine as long as it's not always pretty immediate after she starts walking again. 

I'm just big on rewarding before the dog gets distracted so that you can get continuous behavior instead of a dog that wanders off between rewards. So if you know she walks fine until you hit 25 feet, then she scents, then keep your reward for any time before you hit that 25 foot mark. Reward at 20 feet, then 12 feet, then 22 feet, then 18 feet. As she gets better, challenge that 25 foot parameter and see if you can keep attention for longer than 25 feet without her scenting. If you can, then you have a new parameter. Then it's just a matter of building it. 

You could also put the scenting on command, which is what I did with mine. I set up leash walking to be a fairly centered activity. He follows by my side, checks in with me, looks around, but he doesn't wander to investigate or drop his head to sniff unless I stop the walk and tell him "go sniff". It's at those times that I'll give him the length of the leash to wander and sniff to his heart's content. When I'm ready to move on, I'll tell him "let's go" and it's his cue to get back with me. I like setting it up this way because then the opportunity to sniff can be used as a reward and he's not constantly seeking it out himself - he focuses on me because he knows now he has to get his release from me to go sniff.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Redirecting your hunter away from squirrels and cats to other objects can become a task of teaching her to search particular smells. That is actually what police and SAR dogs are for. If she has such interest - satisfy it with the ball, and you may well solve your problem with the same ball.
Beside exercises already described by Pax8, you can start training her to search for a ball. Mark the ball with a scent (olive oil, any tasteless aromatic oil). Train first on the ground where you normally play ball. When you see that she searches and finds it on command, hide it some day in the bushes in that your Easy Walk ally. Because cats are many, and they hide different places, you might need several balls - mark them with a scent and hide for her to find on your next walk. Myself, I don't want to lose our balls and I teach dogs to play with natural objects like chestnut conquers, pine corns or small sticks marked with some smell. Such exercises are healthy for her intellect.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Stop. Stop worrying about the tools and start worrying about teaching the puppy what you want. Teach the puppy where you want him. You don't need any tool but your body, your voice and his breakfast. Teach the position. Look up shaping and luring. Look up perch work. Watch videos of others teaching their puppy heeling. Teach the puppy to release to the pressure of the collar. You can use a flat collar and do this while sitting in front of your tv. When the puppy pulls, you gently walk backwards until they release the pressure and then you treat them by luring them back into the heel position where you want him to walk.


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

Huh, maybe I was thinking about the Easy Walk wrong - I didn't think of it as a training tool, but just an alternative to a collar with the argument that it's more comfortable for the dog by distributing contact over a larger area. The onus of training a dog where and how you want them to be for loose leash walking still lies with the owner. I hadn't considered a harness vs. collar around the neck as training tools. Then again, I am a very new dog owner, so perhaps I just wasn't thinking in the right terms.


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

Oh, and I've never used the Easy Walk myself, if only because Maya is still growing like a weed and I didn't see the point in buying a harness just yet when chances are she would need to upsize before too long. And then the trainer I consulted with told me that harnesses like that are what he used when training police dogs to attack (I'm not familiar with the right terminology, if attack is not the right word), and so that he doesn't recommend them for regular use.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You do not use an Easy Walk harness for bite work. I think you might have misunderstood what he was saying


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> You do not use an Easy Walk harness for bite work. I think you might have misunderstood what he was saying


Probably not the Easy Walk, no, but he said they use harnesses for that part of police K9 training. Again, I don't know all the right terminology, but he was basically recommending we stay away from harnesses because it's what they use when they need the dogs to be aggressive.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes, they use harnesses in protection work. It's a completely different harness. Totally different philosophy. And harnesses do NOT make the dogs aggressive. They do NOT use harnesses to make a dog aggressive. Did he really say that??!!! That's insane.

They use harnesses so there are no restrictions on the throat.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

The harness doesn't cause aggression J-Boo, its used to restrain the dog while the helper or decoy "frustrates" them. Some of us will never consider a harness to stop pulling because its what's used in so many different things to allow and in some ways encourage pulling. There's always going to be dogs that it will work on, the awkward discomfort from the design of some of them, but I always stick with what Jax mentioned. Teach them what you want.


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> The harness doesn't cause aggression J-Boo, its used to restrain the dog while the helper or decoy "frustrates" them. Some of us will never consider a harness to stop pulling because its what's used in so many different things to allow and in some ways encourage pulling. There's always going to be dogs that it will work on, the awkward discomfort from the design of some of them, but I always stick with what Jax mentioned. Teach them what you want.


So maybe this is what the guy was referring to, that it can encourage pulling.


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> The harness doesn't cause aggression J-Boo, its used to restrain the dog while the helper or decoy "frustrates" them. Some of us will never consider a harness to stop pulling because its what's used in so many different things to allow and in some ways encourage pulling. There's always going to be dogs that it will work on, the awkward discomfort from the design of some of them, but I always stick with what Jax mentioned. Teach them what you want.


And I think part of this is a lot what like I posted above: 

"Huh, maybe I was thinking about the Easy Walk wrong - I didn't think of it as a training tool, but just an alternative to a collar with the argument that it's more comfortable for the dog by distributing contact over a larger area. The onus of training a dog where and how you want them to be for loose leash walking still lies with the owner."

And the trainer's recommendation could be interpreted as the harness allows and can even encourage pulling.


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## dhaney81 (Nov 5, 2014)

I used the easy walk harness for about two months and thought it was a great alternative to the flat collar and it was too early for a prong collar (4 months then, 7 months now). I did the stops, the comes, the turn arounds, and none were really effective for me. The pulls would lessen to a degree sometimes, but other times whenever we started moving again he'd just pull in that direction. 

The harness gave my hands and his throat a good 2 month break, and now has allowed us to move on to the prong collar, which has been making a huge difference already.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I got Newlie when he was around two, weighted at least 70 pounds and was stronger than an ox. I had a harness from a previous dog that I put on him initially. When we started an 8-week obedience class, one of the first things they said was "no harnesses" they encourage pulling. Well, I try to follow the rules so I put a flat collar on him and one of the first things he did was to take off and I almost ended up flat on my face. I told them if you don't want me to use a harness, you are going to have to tell me what I can use because this isn't working and I can't afford any broken bones! When we got Newlie a trainer, he put him in a prong collar and that made a huge difference. Newlie wasn't a puppy, just telling this story because its kind of funny to think about now although I wasn't amused at the time.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Pax8 said:


> I just meant make sure you aren't rewarding right after she gets off a scent. It's usually where I see a toy reward go wrong in 99% of leash walking. It wasn't clear to me how you were going to set up the reward, so I just wanted to mention it. Rewarding during a loose leash walk after getting her off a scent should be fine as long as it's not always pretty immediate after she starts walking again.
> 
> I'm just big on rewarding before the dog gets distracted so that you can get continuous behavior instead of a dog that wanders off between rewards. So if you know she walks fine until you hit 25 feet, then she scents, then keep your reward for any time before you hit that 25 foot mark. Reward at 20 feet, then 12 feet, then 22 feet, then 18 feet. As she gets better, challenge that 25 foot parameter and see if you can keep attention for longer than 25 feet without her scenting. If you can, then you have a new parameter. Then it's just a matter of building it.
> 
> You could also put the scenting on command, which is what I did with mine. I set up leash walking to be a fairly centered activity. He follows by my side, checks in with me, looks around, but he doesn't wander to investigate or drop his head to sniff unless I stop the walk and tell him "go sniff". It's at those times that I'll give him the length of the leash to wander and sniff to his heart's content. When I'm ready to move on, I'll tell him "let's go" and it's his cue to get back with me. I like setting it up this way because then the opportunity to sniff can be used as a reward and he's not constantly seeking it out himself - he focuses on me because he knows now he has to get his release from me to go sniff.


OK. got it. That last paragraph too, great idea. Thanks


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

I will say, 100% orthopedic surgeons HATE easy walk harnesses. They limit extension of the front limbs and constant, prolonged use, especially running/jogging, etc... can actually cause long term damage to the joints, ligaments, etc. Like any training tool, if used they should be used short term for training.

I do agree that of all collars to use in a training sense, prong collars are the least damaging because the prongs do actually distribute the pressure evenly throughout the collar and across the neck.

I used an easy walk harness on berlin as a puppy for short walks simply because he was too young for other training collar types.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

David Taggart said:


> Redirecting your hunter away from squirrels and cats to other objects can become a task of teaching her to search particular smells. That is actually what police and SAR dogs are for. If she has such interest - satisfy it with the ball, and you may well solve your problem with the same ball.
> Beside exercises already described by Pax8, you can start training her to search for a ball. Mark the ball with a scent (olive oil, any tasteless aromatic oil). Train first on the ground where you normally play ball. When you see that she searches and finds it on command, hide it some day in the bushes in that your Easy Walk ally. Because cats are many, and they hide different places, you might need several balls - mark them with a scent and hide for her to find on your next walk. Myself, I don't want to lose our balls and I teach dogs to play with natural objects like chestnut conquers, pine corns or small sticks marked with some smell. Such exercises are healthy for her intellect.


She will love that. I never would thought of turning the neighborhood walk into a game too. Very cool. Thanks


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Pax8 said:


> I agree. The EasyWalk is only a bandaid if the handler uses it as a bandaid. It is an effective tool if you use it as a training tool.
> 
> Really, the big thing I stress with people who are interested in it is that the harness is not going to do anything to train their dog. Training is still on them, the harness can just make a larger or more powerful dog more manageable. I have heard of the shoulder issue with the harness altering the dog's gait, but I have a feeling this happens with people who use it as a bandaid and not a tool - the ones that let their dogs drag them down the street slanted sideways in the Easy Walk. I know by the time my students leave puppy class, for those who have done the work, the Easy Walk is only a safety - other than exceptional situations, the puppy is walking on a loose leash by their side with no pressure on the harness.


It doesn't matter if there is pressure on the harness or not. If the harness is on correctly, it is restricting movement of the front limbs. That is how the harness prevents pulling. That is why the front strap sits so low on the chest and is suppose to be tightened until it is snug. 

If a dog is walking appropriately on a flat lead, there is no reason that harness should be on the dog still.

Again, short term, for short walking exercises for training purposes, likely not going to cause problems. Long term, every single time you walk your growing and developing pup? Likely to cause problems in the future


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Anubis_Star said:


> It doesn't matter if there is pressure on the harness or not. If the harness is on correctly, it is restricting movement of the front limbs. That is how the harness prevents pulling. That is why the front strap sits so low on the chest and is suppose to be tightened until it is snug.
> 
> If a dog is walking appropriately on a flat lead, there is no reason that harness should be on the dog still.
> 
> Again, short term, for short walking exercises for training purposes, likely not going to cause problems. Long term, every single time you walk your growing and developing pup? Likely to cause problems in the future


Mine is intended for very short term. I believe in the prong, I just have a horrible time getting it off and on (no finger strength). I've ordered a carabiner to help with this.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Why don't you use a quick release prong?

http://www.jjdog.com/product/Ray-Al...vsfhu=383335&gclid=CMzQrqrw5MQCFZaKaQod47IAwA


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## ViciousXUSMC (Feb 2, 2015)

Anubis_Star said:


> I will say, 100% orthopedic surgeons HATE easy walk harnesses. They limit extension of the front limbs and constant, prolonged use, especially running/jogging, etc... can actually cause long term damage to the joints, ligaments, etc. Like any training tool, if used they should be used short term for training.
> 
> I do agree that of all collars to use in a training sense, prong collars are the least damaging because the prongs do actually distribute the pressure evenly throughout the collar and across the neck.
> 
> I used an easy walk harness on berlin as a puppy for short walks simply because he was too young for other training collar types.


I heard the same about the prong collar type, but doesn't the martingale do the same being that it tightens up to be snug on the neck when pulled?


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

ViciousXUSMC said:


> I heard the same about the prong collar type, but doesn't the martingale do the same being that it tightens up to be snug on the neck when pulled?


No, martingales and choke chains/other slip collars apply localized pressure when tightened, usually at the front of the neck where theoretically the most damage could be done to structures like the trachea


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Why don't you use a quick release prong?
> 
> Ray Allen Nylon Quick-Release Pinch Collars l Quick Release Dog Collar l JJ Dog


Because of the Leerburg video on them. They give out. They don't sell them or recommend them anymore. Seems like there would be a simple to make the latch stronger, but nothing as yet.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> Because of the Leerburg video on them. They give out. They don't sell them or recommend them anymore. Seems like there would be a simple to make the latch stronger, but nothing as yet.


I've had one since, I think 2007. 3 dogs and its held up fine.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> I've had one since, I think 2007. 3 dogs and its held up fine.


I bought one of the "cheap" ones from petco (it was still 30$ which is more than even a higher quality regular prong). I've had it for 3-4 years and it's held up great. I test it every time I put it on him by yanking on it. I make sure the clamp isn't rusted. And i leave a short line on his other collar just in case

I love it.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Well, since I have one here (Herm Sprenger) that's practically new, I'd like to use it. Do you think there's anything wrong with using a carabiner?


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

Anubis elaborated for me. Yes people use all tools as crutches, but as she said, this one in particular causes problems to the shoulders simply by being on the dog. It causes shorter strides and I have seen people leaving them on their dogs. I saw one man at a dog swim event toss his bully in with it on and the poor dear couldn't swim properly! I called him out on it too. 

Like I said, since those harnesses got popular, shoulder issues have gone up. Reason in my mind to avoid them in developing puppies.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Colie CVT said:


> Anubis elaborated for me. Yes people use all tools as crutches, but as she said, this one in particular causes problems to the shoulders simply by being on the dog. It causes shorter strides and I have seen people leaving them on their dogs. I saw one man at a dog swim event toss his bully in with it on and the poor dear couldn't swim properly! I called him out on it too.
> 
> Like I said, since those harnesses got popular, shoulder issues have gone up. Reason in my mind to avoid them in developing puppies.


Hopefully I won't be using this one long at all. I just need to break the cycle and get her back to the prong. She's 11 months old, not a small puppy, still I understand. 

I have a friend that leaves the prong on his dog 24/7. I thought this is just a training tool too and not to be left on year after year as a regular collar?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

To be real technical, I think this is the quick release Leerburg quit selling:
Pet Pinch Collars : Herm Sprenger Pinch Dog Collar with Quick Release Snap, 16-Inch, Medium: Amazon.com

What Jax posted and what I'm talking about is really a buckle:
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Herm-Sprenger-Collar-Buckle-Stainless/dp/B0099SHLZG[/ame]

I'm not sure where a carabiner fits in though Stone?


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

It can still cause trouble even with older, but especially with developing I wouldn't touch it. Even talking about the Freedom harness with the specialists I work with had them frowning because it still puts restrictions over their shoulder joint and makes free movement hard. Which can lead to accidental injury.

I certainly wouldn't leave a prong on a dog 24/7. My dogs have them on when we're heading somewhere that I know will have them super excited to remind them that they DO have manners. My golden doesn't need his any longer. I had put him on one when he was younger because it got through to him better when his attention fell into the land of drives. I personally like martingales for regular collars because they don't engage unless the dog really is pulling and on the off chance something spooks them when we're out and about, they can't slip their collars and run of on me (not that I've had it happen with my personal dogs before).

I also use the quick release prong because it's easier for me to get on with how my hands don't like to work. Sadly they don't work great with my puppy if I don't remember to take them off when we're out and he's offleash. I've lost like 3 prongs because he somehow manages to lose them...


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I fit the Easy Walk I just received for summer today. The Sporn Harness I bought two weeks ago - I got 50 feet with it before turning for home. It was absolutely digging into her spinal column area just in front of her shoulder blades.

The Easy Walk - we didn't even make it out the front gate - It's garbage too. It hits the same place, in addition, the belly buckle (which they never show up close in the ads sits about 1 inch up from the armpit which would cause abnormal motion and irritation.

So 40 bucks flushed. I can't believe (but I'm not surprised) that dog owners put these on their dogs. Can't they see what all that pressure just in front of the shoulder blades has got to be doing?

And, instructions of both said it's gotta be a tight fit to keep it from shifting....Crazy


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

This is like the quick release prong collar I've always owned, I've purchased 2 of them from petco and they've lasted for years.

Again I check them before every use. I know leerburg doesnt recommend them, but I've never had an issue.

I should also state my dog is extremely well behaved and it is largely used only for training. Even if it were to come off he would recall back to me and it would be a no harm issue. I did use one to walk my fear aggressive boy and I simply had a double line attached to his slip collar as well, just in case the latch released.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Stonevintage said:


> I fit the Easy Walk I just received for summer today. The Sporn Harness I bought two weeks ago - I got 50 feet with it before turning for home. It was absolutely digging into her spinal column area just in front of her shoulder blades.
> 
> The Easy Walk - we didn't even make it out the front gate - It's garbage too. It hits the same place, in addition, the belly buckle (which they never show up close in the ads sits about 1 inch up from the armpit which would cause abnormal motion and irritation.
> 
> ...


I just dug mine out to see what your talking about and I put it on two different dogs. With both of them it isn't tight and I'm able to put a couple fingers through it and it worked fine. There really wasnt any pressure on the front because they didn't pull. The whole point of the harness is so that they feel some pressure and they stop pulling. If the dog is walking normally next to you with a loose leash, there should be no irritation. The moment they pull they feel it and stop. 

I have never put it on tight and it's never shifted. The front part is like a martingale and no matter how loose, that should act the same way on the chest as it would on the neck.

As far as prongs I have a couple from the pet store and Midnite got them off. Once we started training, the club recommended a prong with smaller prongs to be more effective and it did work better. The secret prongs work good and you can get whstever size prongs you need.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

The problem isn't in the front at all. It's right at the top of the back just where the shoulder blades join and when she pulls a little to the right, the belly buckle slides right into her armpit. I have a sheepskin hide that I'm going to cut some patches to place under these two contact points to see if that will help. 

I just took her for an initial test and it does work. It's just going to be very slow and easy. 

As for the prong, I've got so many parts and pieces and joiners from different collars now, I'm going to try to fashion something that will work with the prong I have. I'm pretty much done with the collar buying. She has the flat,prong,sporn,Easy Walk and slip collars now.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> I fit the Easy Walk I just received for summer today. The Sporn Harness I bought two weeks ago - I got 50 feet with it before turning for home. It was absolutely digging into her spinal column area just in front of her shoulder blades.
> 
> The Easy Walk - we didn't even make it out the front gate - It's garbage too. It hits the same place, in addition, the belly buckle (which they never show up close in the ads sits about 1 inch up from the armpit which would cause abnormal motion and irritation.
> 
> ...


 As I said I use one on Shadow. It does shift a bit but she is sort of an odd shape. We walk miles, I switch between the collar and the harness, and it does not bother her at all. I just re-adjust if it slides a bit. 
Since it was mentioned, I will discuss it with her vet. I cannot see it being more harmful then her doing back flips in her collar, and pulling her rolling alligator act. Since she has permanently damaged my right shoulder it's definitely less harmful for me.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> As I said I use one on Shadow. It does shift a bit but she is sort of an odd shape. We walk miles, I switch between the collar and the harness, and it does not bother her at all. I just re-adjust if it slides a bit.
> Since it was mentioned, I will discuss it with her vet. I cannot see it being more harmful then her doing back flips in her collar, and pulling her rolling alligator act. Since she has permanently damaged my right shoulder it's definitely less harmful for me.


The only thing I want to do is just slip a couple of sheepskin pads in. One on her spinal column and one where the "belly clip" sits by her armpit. I can't see any reduced functionality in the system from this - just better for me


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> The only thing I want to do is just slip a couple of sheepskin pads in. One on her spinal column and one where the "belly clip" sits by her armpit. I can't see any reduced functionality in the system from this - just better for me


 I thought about doing that, but she filled out a bit, and as I said it doesn't seem to bother her. 

Note: she slipped her leg over the chest strap. Be sure to keep it tight enough.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> I thought about doing that, but she filled out a bit, and as I said it doesn't seem to bother her.
> 
> Note: she slipped her leg over the chest strap. Be sure to keep it tight enough.


As a note, I often have students attach their leash to both the front clip and the collar if they have issues with the front strap falling down. It happens a lot with barrel chested dogs. Attaching to both seems to keep it more secure.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

That 2nd collar is what I'm rigging up with some of the components of the sporn system. It came with 2 smaller leash clips attached that I think will do just fine. It may look weird but it's only temporary.

Thank you for the suggestions


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