# Dark Sable Shepherd



## trikosteam (May 5, 2020)

Hello all. My family and I finally have the time and capacity to raise a shepherd pup of our own. My wife and I have always had shepherds, but we always adopted from the shelter. This will be our first puppy together. We are looking for a dark sable shepherd, like the picture I included. Through my research, I understand that dark sables go through coat changes during puppyhood, getting darker over time. Is there any way of knowing how they will grow up looking at their 8 week coat?


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## trikosteam (May 5, 2020)

This is the pup we are looking at at 5 weeks


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

Some people say you can tell by looking at there paws. They say if there are dark stripes running between the toes, the pup will remain dark. I'm not sure about that. My breeder said that his sables stay dark. Mine has, so I would ask the breeder about their experience, and see what their dogs look like.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Indy at 10 weeks and 7 1/2 mo. She has lightened up since a baby so I refer to her as a dark sable


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## trikosteam (May 5, 2020)

Thanks guys. Beautiful pup Oz!


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

There is a difference between a dark sable and a black sable which is the darkest sable.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Chip Blasiole said:


> There is a difference between a dark sable and a black sable which is the darkest sable.


Yes hence why I put up the pics of Indy. As a pup she was considered a black sable now I call her a dark sable. She may darken up do time will tell.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Ox z Jirkova-dvora is an example of a richly pigmented black sable.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

The best way to know is by seeing what the puppy looks like when they are born. The family tree can give you clues to how dark the black will be. At 8 weeks because of the color changes, you can't really tell. They can end up way lighter or darker.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

trikosteam said:


> Thanks guys. Beautiful pup Oz!


Thanks


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## trikosteam (May 5, 2020)

So other than seeing what they look like upon birth, its more of a guess?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I get some very dark sables but mostly good pigmented dark sables as opposed to washy sables or pattern sables...I avoid doing crosses (way bottom of priority list not top!) that would produce patterns....

I can usually tell at birth which will be near black sables...a TRUE black sable is just that - a dog who appears black at a distance, but when you turn the coat back, it is sable, some tan showing in very small amounts, you should not be able to see red on legs or face to be a true black sable....but given the public's fascination with this color, pretty much all dark sables are now labeled "black sable". Each of these dogs has one parent who is from my K litter - either Kira or Komet. Neither of them are black sables, but nice dark sables, brown is more tan than red....each of these has one parent who is black.

Personally - I would not call Ox a black sable....very dark sable....like these...closest to black sable is probably Occult - last photo and second photo of baby puppy

Lee


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Well off topic but Lee I love your O litter! 
I was very sad I couldn't have one. 
I thought sables ended up sort of where they were at about 8 weeks. Maybe that's just what it seems to me.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Very nice dogs guys. Love sables. Remi is on the light side. His litter sister was like Occult.


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## trikosteam (May 5, 2020)

You guys all have gorgeous dogs!!

Any guesses on what the pup I posted will grow into?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

What do the parents look like?
But are you selecting a puppy based on color?


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## trikosteam (May 5, 2020)

No I'm not. This is one of two pups that is a match with the temperament I am looking for. Hoping to get the right pup both temperament and color wise. Thats mom in the first, dad in the second. Thanks for your help.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Wolfstraum,
Would you consider this dog a black sable?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Chip - very close - but no.....I can see why most everyone will call him a black sable, and I'd give my eyeteeth to get a whole litter like that!!!! But I can see brown over both stifle/thighs, and on legs...I have seen 1 or 2 true black sables....this dog is really really nice and really close, but there is brown showing everywhere, especially from the rear view....spent alot of time with a couple of Czech guys when I was breeding for my K's.....they were sort of mesmerized by the American fascination with black sables, and we had a conversation about it. Both times I showed and koered Csabre - Herr Scheld made comments about the strength of pigment, the true agouti hair coat. The black sable mystique is comsumer driven though, and every DDR & Czech line commercial breeder touts every dog they produce as a black sable.

Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

trikosteam said:


> No I'm not. This is one of two pups that is a match with the temperament I am looking for. Hoping to get the right pup both temperament and color wise. Thats mom in the first, dad in the second. Thanks for your help.


Mom is a pattern sable....Dad is similar to my Komet, with more dark on face....

the pup - at this moment - has nice pigment - whether he patterns out remains to be seen....I doubt he will be as dark as any I showed....maybe near the dog in the frontal sitting photo (Piper)

Lee


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

The breeder of this dog claims he is a black sable.




__





Jester von Lord Fandor


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Jester von Lord Fandor




www.pedigreedatabase.com




The sire is black (a+a) and the dam is a grey sable (aw+aw) and the pup is (aw+a.)


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

well - he's pretty dark! borderline. - just a touch less red showing than Occult...I wish I could find one.....all my above photos are from a black female and a dark gray sable..


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I would like to see a photos, as I always thought the examples I posted were of black sables.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Chip - they are what most people call black sables - and all the ones I posted are called black sables by most people....I have only seen a few true black sables and I cannot remember their names to find their photos again....I guess it is one of those things that if every one is going to call them that, they might as well be... 🤣 🤣 Common perception becomes truth again!

Lee


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## Bella99 (Sep 4, 2017)

If you’re looking for dogs similar to Amwolfs dogs. The dogs you posted. Why don’t you give them a holler. They have a litter on the ground. 


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## Bella99 (Sep 4, 2017)

Here’s the litter my dog is from. They all have the dark stripe. I think they’re maybe 6 weeks here?










. 6months









14 months


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## Wylie P (Aug 3, 2020)

I’m also trying to figure out if my pup will be a darker sable or not. Her mom is a black&red and her dad is a dark sable. This is currently her at 17 weeks


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Wylie P said:


> I’m also trying to figure out if my pup will be a darker sable or not. Her mom is a black&red and her dad is a dark sable. This is currently her at 17 weeks
> View attachment 561759


One of the things that can and often does happen when you breed a black and brown/tan/red to a sable is that the PATTERN gene also affects the final color....the saddle pattern is common to B/T ... pups born mostly black with tan paws, then the tan spreads and the black recedes into the pattern....this happens quite often when you get a sable pup with a parent with a saddle.....why I don't breed the two together normally.

Lee


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## Lauren Kelly (Feb 27, 2016)

trikosteam said:


> Is there any way of knowing how they will grow up looking at their 8 week coat?



Can't tell if you prefer a darker or lighter dog? My sable has gotten darker but she is golden yellow underneath her streaks of black. I think she has gotten darker though since birth.


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