# 2 females in one house a bad idea?



## cowgirlup_22 (May 11, 2011)

First and foremost I apologize if this has been brought up before and if it sounds like a stupid question. I also wasn't sure if this was the correct place for this question so if its not I really am sorry : / 

Ok here goes.I have the opportunity to give a 10 month old AKC reg. black GSD a loving home.Here is where I get concerned... It's a female.I could be wrong(probably am wrong.lol) but I swore that I read somewhere on here that its not a good idea to have two female GSD's in the same house..Is that correct or no? I'm asking because of already having a female and don't want to get myself into something that could possibly end badly...


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

It can work, it may not. Our first three dogs were all female. Got along with no problems. Then two little males came in. After a while, the boys tried killing one another, so we found another home for one of them. Then I got Ozzy (intact male). No issues. We added another female (foster failure), and our female lab HATES her, so they have to be kept separated at all times, or there WILL be blood. 

Here we are now, with 5 dogs. 3 females (one gets along with both, the other two don't), and two males, who get along with everyone.


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## MissChristina (Oct 21, 2011)

There are two females in my household. AnnaBelle (5 months old) and my mom's corgi mix Lady (4 years old). Females just don't get along as well as a male/female match. But think of all the breeders that have more than one female. Just be sure to take both your dogs to meet the new one to see how they all react. Meet somewhere neutral that none of the dogs have been to before (like maybe a park that they have never been to or a field).


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I have two females, (non-GSD), both spayed and it wasn't pretty at first. Actually it was ugly for awhile. No bloodshed or anything  but not easy. I guess it took six months? for them to get to where they could be trusted alone without supervision.


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## cowgirlup_22 (May 11, 2011)

I would definitely bring Kenai(male) and Kiva(my female) with to meet her.The owner of the black shep actually mentioned that before I could ask.lol This girl is laid back and from what owner says great with other dogs,cats and kids. Big plus in my book since I have 2 dogs already(obviously.lol) and kids.I am looking at this girl(just like I did with my other two) with the intent of giving her a forever home.At the same time I don't want to put any of the dogs into a possibly dangerous situation.. My DH says I'm being paranoid but I would rather be safe than sorry..Know what I mean? Is it silly to hope that them both being younger would help?


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## deldridge72 (Oct 25, 2011)

I have four adult females and two adult males living in my house and do not have an issue as the dogs know what behavior is acceptable and what is not--I've had a variety of dogs introduced throughout the years and only had one incident and that was resolved to where the two dogs totally ignored each other.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I have 3 dogs, 2 female 1 male. When I brought Lakota home at 8 wks old, about a year and a half ago, I thought I would have a problem with my 6yr old female. Turns out she bonded with my female right away. The 2 girls play nicely together. Unfortunately my 7-1/2 yr old male was less than thrilled with the new addition.
Fast forward to present day, the 2 girls are still best buddies. My male will play with her occassionally but the 2 of them butt heads. It all depends on the dogs.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

A breeder friend of mine warns that females can get along very nicely and often do but when things go bad.....they can go really bad. After many many years of owning/breeding/showing dogs (siberian huskies) she observed that males tend to get in scuffles, sort things out and it's done. Females, when they get into a fight, they tend to be much more in it to win it...so to speak.

This is just a general observation but I think it fair to say that same sex fights are more apt to occur.

As rule of thumb it's been my observation that once dogs decide they like each other they tend to get along fine....but if they really take a disliking to each other it can present problems that may never be resolved. 

One of my clients adopted two female spayed lab mixes. They started fighting and I mean ferocious fights requiring trips to the vet, stitches and over night stays. She brought in an excellent trainer, she worked very hard with these two girls and did everything as the trainer instructed. This lady deserved a lot of praise because she is one of these people who really, really tried to do everything correctly and still, could not let these two girls cohabitate freely. 

Then I know of and care for many female dogs who have been and continue to be best buddies. 

My suggestion would be, if you meet the dog away from home and everyone gets along take her for 'trial run' into your home. I've done this with every rescue I've adopted, made sure that if there were personality conflicts I would be able to give the dog back.

I hope it works out that they are all best buddies! Good luck!


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

Perfectly good question and not unlike many cases, it depends upon the individual dogs. Generally we would not advise a same sex situation with multiple dogs. However I know many people that have all males or all females. In my case there have only been females. Until B'EL crossed over in March there were three intact females in the house. I have to say that there really has never been a problem.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

There are many people who have households with multiple female living together successfully, but it's not something I would ever do. If I were going to have two of the same sex I'd have males, but I prefer to have one of each. I love the females, but I've heard too many horror stories to feel completely comfortable with the idea, and I don't want to have to separate my dogs.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

It depends on the individual dogs. I have had several female-female combos with no problems but I was careful about matching temperaments (as in not putting two dominant females together) and I run a tight ship around my house. 

My last female (Chama) was better with other females than with males.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I have not had much success with this. German Shepherds, as a breed, can tend to intersex aggression. It really can be a GSD thing. I have a couple that could get along a bit, but they also were not GSD like in many other characteristics.

Now the Shelties, seem to pile up well together. My dominant German Shepherd bitches...nope!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think it depends on many things. We have three females. Banshee (Boxer) is 12 years. Sierra (Boxer), 6 years, was a puppy when we got her and grew up with Banshee. There have never been issues between the two. Jax, 4 years, was a baby when we brought her home and for whatever reason, Sierra decided to take a dislike to her. It's been **** between the two of them. Sierra taught Jax to fight, randomly attacking her, and now Jax is whipping her butt all the way to the ER vet for stitches. I guess you wont' really know until you try it.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I have always had two females together without major problems. I think the key is age difference. Two females close in age are much more likely to fight than, say, a ten year old female and a new puppy (which is what I have). I would hesitate to introduce another young bitch, unless she was very submissive.

But a lot depends on the individual dogs and their temperaments. Obviously, two dominant females should not be housed together. The best same-sex match, IMO, is one bitch who is a confident alpha, and another who is more submissive in temperament. A confident alpha sees no need to harass or bicker, and is the least likely to pick a fight. An insecure wannabe-alpha is the worst--always needing to pick on others to prove herself. This is the type you want to keep out of a multi-dog household if at all possible.


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

If you search, you can probably find my post about this from last year. We added a female dog to our house last December, she is about 10 months older than our first GSD (also female). Our first dog was somewhat dog reactive but also had a "best friend," another female GSD that was a couple months younger than she was, so we knew she did get along with some females.

We introduced them on neutral territory 2x before deciding take home the 2nd one, and followed guidelines by our trainer including another neutral meeting before entering the house, and then keeping them separated by our dog gate for the first day, and then using an "umbilical cord" on the new dog while they were getting used to each other.
We did lots of positive reinforcement for calm behavior with each other, and other than 1 scuffle on the 2nd day (which sounded horrible but no blood was drawn), they got used to each other quickly. 

We had to be really aware of resource-guarding (especially with attention), but they now get along great and eat next to each other, share toys, and seem to enjoy each other's company. They play a lot and it's adorable. They can get bitchy with each other, but the younger one submits to the older one. They are 2 yrs 6 months and 3 years 3 mos now, and have been living together for almost a year.


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

One thought that I would add, as it was suggested to me when I brought home a second male, make sure that they can't see each other when in their crates. Our boy's crates are side by side but there is a panel in between. While they are adjusting (if there is an issue), you don't want them eyeing each other as that can just build a hate that will never change. May be nothing, but I think it made a difference for our boy's as they adjusted to each other.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

The problem generally isn't when they are young, but when the youngest reaches maturity. That is often when the problems start. (And being spayed makes no difference.) So you then have 2 dogs, that you have had for a year or 2 (so you are attached to both of them.) that all of a sudden decide they would rather kill each other that look at each other.

I haven't read all of the posts, so don't know if anyone else has posted this but, there is a saying, "Males fight for breeding rights, females fight for BREATHING rights. And that saying exists for a REASON. Often when males "fight" it is just a "squabble" with lots of noise but no bloodshed. Females will often try to kill each other. Granted this doesn't always happen, but it CAN. Are you prepared to keep them seperated for the rest of their lives or rehome one a year or 2 from now if this DOES end up being the case?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

oh, yes, the saying can be true. A bitch fight is awful. Once the line is crossed and aggression occurs, there is seldom going back. Bitches don't forget!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Freestep said:


> I have always had two females together without major problems. I think the key is age difference. Two females close in age are much more likely to fight than, say, a ten year old female and a new puppy (which is what I have). I would hesitate to introduce another young bitch, unless she was very submissive.
> 
> But a lot depends on the individual dogs and their temperaments. Obviously, two dominant females should not be housed together. The best same-sex match, IMO, is one bitch who is a confident alpha, and another who is more submissive in temperament. A confident alpha sees no need to harass or bicker, and is the least likely to pick a fight. An insecure wannabe-alpha is the worst--always needing to pick on others to prove herself. This is the type you want to keep out of a multi-dog household if at all possible.


Great post. I agree 100%. In regards to the second paragraph, that is the problem with people having/getting 2 female puppies (by "puppies" I mean under 2yo.) , you don't know HOW they will be at maturity.


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

When do females reach maturity?


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## cowgirlup_22 (May 11, 2011)

Just wanted to update everyone.Took my two to go meet her and boy is she a sweetheart! My male gave her a few kisses and wanted to play.Now when it was Kiva's turn to meet her I was cautious and kept a close eye on their body language/posture.Oh and we kept them all on leashes for a while at first..It was interesting to see Kiva(who is normally dominant over Kenai,my male)be totally submissive to this new female who in turn is submissive. They got along extremely well and we actually had problems when it was time to leave..Both girls threw a fit because they didn't want to leave each other. From how they were carrying on you would swear that we were torturing them or something I did ask to see if we could get them together again to see how it goes again.I don't think it would be a problem with them if I wanted to do a trial period with her..They are close in age,Blackie being 10 months and Kiva being 8 months. Not knowing how they will be when they reach maturity is a concern...what age is a female considered mature?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Age at maturity depends on the individual, of course, but usually by 2-3 years you can assume the female is mature. 

That's great that they got along! Being close in age and both acting submissively at this point, it's hard to tell how that relationship would play out over time.


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## Gmthrust (Mar 3, 2010)

Four females in our home; two intact. First came Keek (rescue pup at five weeks; she's the one we are pretty sure has a dab of Siberian Husky). Then, when she was 1 year six months, we were approached by a German Shepherd Dog rescue to see if we'd like to meet a young handsome male White Shepherd. Because he was so incredibly good-looking, we figured he'd get a home real easy...(he did)...so we decided to favor an older overweight female (who is no longer the chunky monkey, she's now a spunky monkey). Her name is Cris.....and I can't explain it correctly it's like..... well.....I don't know how to put it in words but she is exactly what Keek needed; we knew it right away. Next came Trin, who is now 10 months....to me she is pure magic. I don't know how we got so very lucky, but these three females are just plain FUN. lol. We love working with them. Anyway four months ago, we adopted a 3 and a half years old female Chihuahua who's being trained exactly as if she were really a mini white shepherd.

All four girls get along so well. Right from the get go, the three big girls accepted and embraced the Chihuahua as if already one of their own. And Pippen took to the three big girls as if she knew them her whole life. Here's a photo all together on the way to the Vet.....we go just about every Sat. for the fun of it...practice weigh ins....treats.....that kinda stuff:







:wub:
Left to Right...Keek Trin Pip Cris....Actually, I think this photo was taken on the day Pip came, because it was that same day we took her to the vet.....to get her first check up and wellness exam. She doesn't wear that harness anymore.

They are worked individually, and in pairs, and in triples, and quad, too. All four are medium-high to high energy....none are alpha.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Freestep said:


> Age at maturity depends on the individual, of course, but usually by 2-3 years you can assume the female is mature.
> 
> That's great that they got along! Being close in age and both acting submissively at this point, it's hard to tell how that relationship would play out over time.


When we had 2 females that also happened to be 2 months apart in age, all was wonderful, UNTIL just after they hit 2yo. Then all bets were off, and the war was ON. And out was NOT just squabbling, one wanted nothing more than to eliminate the other.


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

BlackGSD said:


> When we had 2 females that also happened to be 2 months apart in age, all was wonderful, UNTIL just after they hit 2yo. Then all bets were off, and the war was ON. And out was NOT just squabbling, one wanted nothing more than to eliminate the other.


That worries me. I hope we are safe, they did go through a little testing right around when Regen hit 2, but she is 2 yrs 6 months now and Osa is 3 years 3 months, so hopefully they have worked out the status quo.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I had 3 females all intact for a while. Didnt have any problems but they were seperated when we were gone for safety just in case and i was very strict with how they behaved when we were home. Never had any problems.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

All I can say is best of luck! 
Sasha and my other females got along great the first month or so then the pack become unbalanced. Everyone was tense as the months went on. Sasha was 8 or 10 months old when I added her to older fems. I even took Meika to check out Sasha before I got her and all went well.

My failure was adding a high prey dog with no training to a low drive pack. Hopefully you will have a better experience.
I think I am traumatized from the whole situation although my other dogs are slowly getting back to normal. Plus now I am heartbroken loosing a dog I really loved to save the rest of my pack from insanity.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

IMO it is misleading to suggest that being "alpha" or "running a tight ship" will prevent same sex aggression in GSDs, a strongly genetically influenced behavior. Sure some GSDs are not by nature same sex aggressive, just like some GSDs don't have much guarding instinct and some are gregarious instead of aloof. Not all dogs will inherit all characteristics possibly associated with the breed. IMO though, I suspect most GSDs do tend towards same sex aggression but the behavior isn't always triggered. Perhaps your GSD girls of great together now but if you added another, they would not. Or if they were closer in age they would not. Or if they weren't related they would not. Or if you moved to a new place they would not. Or...

I lived with a very same sex aggressive GSD girl for 13 years. 10 of those 13 years were spent rotating girls around so that there was no chance of her seeing or fighting with the other girls (there was definitely a steep learning curve there). She was fine with dogs outside of the household, dogs who were new to the household and puppies of either sex. She went to doggy daycare with me every day for a long time and she never had any issues with the daycare dogs regardless of sex or behavior. They pretty much didn't exist to her LOL She would very seriously fight with any mature female living in the house though. It had absolutely nothing to do with me and my relationship with her, she was not "dominant", she was not "spoiled" and she was not "untrained".

The problem with her started when I got another GSD who was about the same age as her but it did not start right away. Actually at first they loved each other. They played together, slept together and had no issues at all. I couldn't imagine they would ever fight, which all of the GSD people here warned me about repeatedly. That lasted about a year or so, until they were just over 3 years old. Then they fought forever after that if given a chance. Real, serious, violent fights.

The second GSD girl was actually not the problem, she was much less prone to same sex aggression than the first. She wouldn't back down from a fight but didn't care to start one either. She has peacefully lived with other girls most of her life. The first GSD could never peacefully live with any other girl once they were mature. For her this was between a year and two. I tried it multiple times to raise girl puppies with her and even at 13, shortly before her death she tried to fight with my youngest Belgian girl, who is never anything but appropriate with other dogs. For her, it absolutely did not matter if the other dog was submissive or not towards her. Several of the Belgian girls would not fight back and it didn't change her behavior at all. She didn't want to "dominate" them, she wanted to eliminate them. Which IMO is what same sex aggression is really all about - eliminating the competition. 

So just because every gets along at the first meeting doesn't mean they will always get along. Or the second. Or the third. Or after a week of living together. Or two weeks. Or a month. Or two months... If your girl GSDs get along together forever or not depends largely on what their genetics influence them to do. If you don't think you could deal with keeping dogs separated within your home, avoid having two same sex dogs or at least two who are anywhere close in age (I'd say at least 5 or 6 years between them but the more the better).


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## Gmthrust (Mar 3, 2010)

AgileGSD,

Maybe I am goofing up in my questioning what you wrote, but I really want to understand and hoping you won't take offense. If you'll explain more of what you meant then it sounds like a valuable life-lesson to learn....and I'm not sure how to word it so no feelings are hurt. This first female showed early signs...were those signs accidentally ignored; example: as in the human too young and/or inexperienced at the time she showed the signs, didn't know to instead redirect and show her a better way to deal with her behavior, and so maybe that's why she went ahead to blow up into full fledged SSA (a nature vs. nurture question)? Another part that has me confused is that even though you knew your first female was household SSA----you kept adding females to your home? And one female SSA in 13 years of life---compared to all your other females who weren't-----is why you recommend waiting at least five to six years or more between females? I don't mean to discredit you in any way.......just trying to figure out your experience more clearly so that learning is achieved. Thanks for sharing your experience, too. I appreciate it.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Gmthrust said:


> AgileGSD,
> 
> Maybe I am goofing up in my questioning what you wrote, but I really want to understand and hoping you won't take offense. If you'll explain more of what you meant then it sounds like a valuable life-lesson to learn....and I'm not sure how to word it so no feelings are hurt. This first female showed early signs...were those signs accidentally ignored; example: as in the human too young and/or inexperienced at the time she showed the signs, didn't know to instead redirect and show her a better way to deal with her behavior, and so maybe that's why she went ahead to blow up into full fledged SSA (a nature vs. nurture question)?


 I really don't think so. While we never had multiple bitches together or GSDs, we did have 3 intact males who lived peacefully together for many years. Not inexperienced with keeping same sex dogs together without issue. I worked at a doggy daycare at the time they began fighting so definitely knew warning signs to look for. There was not escalating tension leading up to the first fight. Of course now that I'm more experienced and educated about the breed, I'd never expect two close in age same sex GSDs to get along. So in that way, I guess my inexperience with the breed was part of the issue - I didn't believe what the GSD breeders were telling me about having two close in age girls together. They got along well, my SSA GSD was socialized like crazy, very well trained, good with other dogs away from the house and showed no signs that there would be an issue even after living with the other GSD for months. 

I do find it interesting that whenever this subject is brought up, people who have not yet had issues with their same sex GSDs try to explain away why others have had problems. As though it isn't a known genetic tendency in the breed and it's some how the owner's fault their same sex dogs didn't get along. I find it interesting mostly because it seems owners of other breeds prone to this issues are a lot more upfront about it.



Gmthrust said:


> Another part that has me confused is that even though you knew your first female was household SSA----you kept adding females to your home? And one female SSA in 13 years of life---compared to all your other females who weren't-----is why you recommend waiting at least five to six years or more between females? I don't mean to discredit you in any way.......just trying to figure out your experience more clearly so that learning is achieved. Thanks for sharing your experience, too. I appreciate it.


 In the years since my first experience with SSA, I have done a lot of research on the issue and have talked to many, many people who have had first hand experience with it. That research has led me to believe one of the ways you can decrease the risk of having SSA issues is for there to be a good age gap between the dogs. Certainly it's not sure fire but it does seem less risky. Also I think one shouldn't tempt fate too much. If you have 2 or 3 same sex GSDs who get along fine, be happy with that and don't keep adding new dogs especially not new close in age dogs.

I have only owned two female GSDs and one male. The rest of the girls are Belgians, who seem to have much less risk of serious SSA. They get snarky with each other, they have disputes (sometimes loudly) but when it's over it's over and they go on with life as usual. And yes, I kept adding girl dogs to my house, even knowing one of my dogs was SSA. We were already separating her from the other girl, so it really wasn't that big of a deal to just separate the younger dogs too. 

Again, this was not an out of control, aggressive dog. She went to work with me every day where she was lose with 20-30 other dogs for an entire work day. I never had even any close calls with her in that situation. I took her to countless dog shows, agility/obedience trials, training classes. trade shows, festivals, etc. Places that were sometimes so packed with dogs and people that it was hard to move through the walkways (when in my work's booth at trade shows, people were often startled to see her laying behind the table because she was that well mannered). Never had any close calls in those situations either. Took her to friends houses who had dogs and she was always rather polite towards dogs in their own homes, even dogs who weren't polite towards her. Her problem was so specific, that it would be hard to argue that it wasn't just part of her genetic package. 

She was very much a GSD through and through. I agree with someone who said something like their easiest dogs with other household dogs were the GSDs who didn't act as much like GSDs. I can definitely see that and think there are temperament traits that go with the correct GSD temperament that may also predispose the dogs to having issues tolerating "competition". My non-SSA GSD is a good girl but lacks some of the classic GSD temperament traits.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

AgileGSD said:


> She would very seriously fight with any mature female living in the house though. It had absolutely nothing to do with me and my relationship with her, she was not "dominant", she was not "spoiled" and she was not "untrained".





> She didn't want to "dominate" them, she wanted to eliminate them. Which IMO is what same sex aggression is really all about - eliminating the competition.


Interesting, and I think true in many cases of SSA. My former in-laws had a female Chocolate lab that would routinely attack the other female dogs in the house, with no provocation, warning, or apparent reason. She would walk into the room, see the other female lying there on the floor--not even looking at her--and suddenly, savagely attack. 

These two females had lived together all their lives, in the same house, and seemed to tolerate each other just fine except about for these twice a year attacks. The other bitch never provoked her and never fought back. Never did figure out what would cause the Lab to flip out; I thought she might have had a screw loose, or it may have been related to her cycle--she was not spayed until 5 years of age.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

Depends. My girls all get along with one another with no problems. The only time I ever have a fight on my hands is when my Papillon does something to injure himself or yelps- something about his yelping just sets off the Shepherds and they then try to get to him. But that's the only time I've had a fight and luckily we tend to keep him away from them because he yelps alot.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

We have had up to three bitches living in the house at the same time and all peacefully. No squabbles at all, but one was a very dominant female and the other two were not (1 acquired as a little puppy and the other as a 10 mo show prospect). The two younger ones would not dare react with the older one around.


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## Gmthrust (Mar 3, 2010)

AgileGSD, thank you for answering such difficult questions....(well, not just difficult, but more like feet-to-the-fire questions). Your honesty and integrity shines VERY brightly! Thank you for understanding how much I want to learn about SSA, especially from your very highly specific, very much unique---type of SSA-----I never knew this kind before.....where it was so much a fine line, well, it seems a laser point.

Also, thanks everyone for allowing me to learn! Thanks for not getting mad about a thread jacking Cowgirlup.



AgileGSD said:


> *I really don't think so. While we never had multiple bitches together or GSDs, we did have 3 intact males who lived peacefully together for many years. Not inexperienced with keeping same sex dogs together without issue. I worked at a doggy daycare at the time they began fighting so definitely knew warning signs to look for. There was not escalating tension leading up to the first fight. Of course now that I'm more experienced and educated about the breed, I'd never expect two close in age same sex GSDs to get along. So in that way, I guess my inexperience with the breed was part of the issue - I didn't believe what the GSD breeders were telling me about having two close in age girls together. They got along well, my *_*SSA GSD was socialized like crazy, very well trained, good with other dogs away from the house and showed no signs that there would be an issue even after living with the other GSD for months.*_That's what piqued my interest from your last post, a partial quote (re: #*28*)_ ...she was not "dominant", she was not "spoiled" and she was not "untrained"_. That's what I have with mine......and like yours....none are showing any signs of SSA. So after reading your post.....it sure sounded like something I better ask and learn from you.​*I do find it interesting that whenever this subject is brought up, people who have not yet had issues with their same sex GSDs try to explain away why others have had problems.** As though it isn't a known genetic tendency in the breed and it's some how the owner's fault their same sex dogs didn't get along. I find it interesting mostly because it seems owners of other breeds prone to this issues are a lot more upfront about it.*I know what you mean, and thanks again for understanding that I never meant to discount, discredit, nor disavow what you went thru.....which to me....is so unique....not at all like the other situations that I know about.​*In the years since my first experience with SSA, I have done a lot of research on the issue and have talked to many, many people who have had first hand experience with it. That research has led me to believe one of the ways you can decrease the risk of having SSA issues is for there to be a good age gap between the dogs. Certainly it's not sure fire but it does seem less risky. Also I think one shouldn't tempt fate too much. If you have 2 or 3 same sex GSDs who get along fine, be happy with that and don't keep adding new dogs especially not new close in age dogs.*It really can be seen as tempting fate.....and others will say that God gives you what you need.....not what you want. Pat answers! lol. Um, that's not a smartypants reply.....nor directed at you (your replies are the opposite of pats)....just seems most folks go out of their way to deliver pat answers, usually just frustrates the situation in learning. And the point is learning.....be alert, be aware, be careful---don't get too suckered into complacency---your sharing the experience with the first female GSD, is very much a life lesson. At least it is to me. I'm indebted by its value and feel as if a mere thanks to you---is not enough!​*I have only owned two female GSDs and one male. The rest of the girls are Belgians, who seem to have much less risk of serious SSA. They get snarky with each other, they have disputes (sometimes loudly) but when it's over it's over and they go on with life as usual. And yes, I kept adding girl dogs to my house, even knowing one of my dogs was SSA. We were already separating her from the other girl, so it really wasn't that big of a deal to just separate the younger dogs too.
> 
> Again, this was not an out of control, aggressive dog. She went to work with me every day where she was lose with 20-30 other dogs for an entire work day. I never had even any close calls with her in that situation. I took her to countless dog shows, agility/obedience trials, training classes. trade shows, festivals, etc. Places that were sometimes so packed with dogs and people that it was hard to move through the walkways (when in my work's booth at trade shows, people were often startled to see her laying behind the table because she was that well mannered). Never had any close calls in those situations either. Took her to friends houses who had dogs and she was always rather polite towards dogs in their own homes, even dogs who weren't polite towards her. Her problem was so specific, that it would be hard to argue that it wasn't just part of her genetic package.*This is exactly what I mean by your situation is a new lesson to me! Very much unique and, well, extremely invaluable....the pin-pointedness of it.​*She was very much a GSD through and through. I agree with someone who said something like their easiest dogs with other household dogs were the GSDs who didn't act as much like GSDs. I can definitely see that and think there are temperament traits that go with the correct GSD temperament that may also predispose the dogs to having issues tolerating "competition". My non-SSA GSD is a good girl but lacks some of the classic GSD temperament traits.*I know my three girl GSDs may never reach the utopian heights of the ideal GSD standards in temperaments....and I do feel very fortunate in their abilities.....so far ......to very much display such a true fondness for each other and for others (at least a neutrality is what we shoot for) outside of us. But you're right.....you never know.....you never really know if the pat answers rule in the gamble of fate plays a mean-streak or that God simply gave you what you needed. I mean the general-you, not you-you. AgileGSD, thank you for helping me understand and learn from such a special-case scenario.:hugs:​


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I've read here and elsewhere about the tendancy of GSDs to SSA and have seen a mother/daughter GSD combo that was a ticking time bomb (adult daughter jumping on mother, pinning her and both growling very seriously).

The worst dog fight I've personally witnessed was between two older female labs. I thought they were going to kill each other. I would get them seperated (pushed a kitchen chair between them) and they would run around the other side and go at each other again. It was awful and it happens.

My S.O. has insisted on getting a puppy. I tried to talk him into waiting at least until spring. Nope. Then I tried to talk him into picking a male, nope it's gotta be a girl. I've warned him this maybe a problem. I'm going to talk to my trainer who has been working with me and my female in training classes all summer (so he knows my dog) about this next week.

Which brings me to one of the questions I'll be asking him, how often does SSA show up in multiple female GSD homes? 

We have posts in this thread on both sides of the fence, some with no problems some with very significant problems....so I'm wondering how prevelant it is? 

(p.s. I ran across a study that female GSDs that are spayed after having a couple of heat cycles tend to show less aggression. It was a small study but my trainer who has worked with GSDS in protection and schutzhund for 20 years felt the study confirmed his observations and advises GSD owners to let their dogs have a couple of heat cycles before spaying)


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