# When do I spay my little girl?



## geissap

She's 6 months at what age should I look at spaying?


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## doggiedad

why are you having her spayed???


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I like to spay prior to first heat. I have not been able to do so except with 2 of my females (all rescues so they had gone through heats or had puppies prior to me getting them). 

Here is a thread with back and forth with input from someone versed at reading scientific data:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/148785-early-neutering-hurting-our-pets.html


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## Kola_2010

Ok... now I am a little worried... because I just read all that stuff about spaying to early... but then some people are saying that it should be prior to her first heat.... 

Jean I have a lil one too... who in a few months will probably get fixed. The Vet told me since we are not going to breed her it is best to fix her because she could get cancer. Something about a part producing tumors which become cancerous later on in life. 

Kola is 3mts now... when they want to fix her she will be about 6-7mts old. So I would talk to your Vet and see what he/she says. Its probably about time.


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## Emoore

I'm really skeptical of the whole "if you don't get them spayed/neutered they could get cancer" business. 

Obviously if a dog doesn't have testicles it can't get testicular cancer, and if there's no uterus there's no chance of uterine cancer, but on the whole I refuse to believe that removing an entire body system is advantageous for the health of the dog. It may not be DISadvantageous, but saying that if you don't remove their reproductive organs they'll get cancer-- that's a big leap to make.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

It's mammary cancer that spaying before first heat works for. 

If you read through that thread, you will find that it's not a leap made without information. 

And since again, we don't know any of these people we are talking to, I would never specifically recommend anyone I don't know have an intact animal, since it's the person who really dictates the safety, behavior and health of the dog.


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## Mary&Stella

I was talking to my Vet and we think that our Stella will be spayed after the first heat, we get our dog spayed because we have no intention of breeding so it is the responsible thing to do.


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## cassadee7

I think the world would be a better place if most of your average pet owners spayed and neutered their dogs.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Yeah, and I am not saying that there are people who can't have intact animals and do well lifelong with them - but that when PEOPLE make a mistake, the animals pay for it and that stinks. 

Plus I do think that there are health risks - but people can read the source studies themselves and see what they think.


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## geissap

I had no idea this was so controversial. I dont plan on breeding and I just don't want to jeopardize my dog getting pregnant. I don't think she'll ever get out or get loose as we're pretty good dog owners but bottomline is no one can ever guarantee that. I've decided that I'm spaying my dog...that's not a decision to be made, however timeframe is and that's what this post is about.


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## Emoore

I agree-- the huge vast majority of people should spay and neuter their pets. Spaying/neutering is a great thing. I'm just not sure I buy the cancer argument, especially for males unless they're cryptorchid.


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## DharmasMom

I had Dharma spayed at 7 months before her first heat. I got it done then because I didn't want the trouble and mess that goes with taking care of a dog in heat.

And I never realized how controversial a subject it was until I started posting here either. I am all for it and say "Good for you!" you are doing your part to keep the pet population down and that is wonderful!!


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## Mary&Stella

I will just add a bit more, my previous dogs, both femaile were spayed after at least the first heat, one Sam (Samantha) had 2 heats, both did well, both lived long healthy lives 13 and 14 years old! I would defineatly let a dog have a first heat, and if that is not too bad then maybe a second one. Depending on wher you live and socialize your dog, a girl can get pregnant easily, thiose boy can be pretty persistant!!!


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## MrsWoodcock

I think timing a spay/neuter is everything. I personally would have waited till after Ruby's first heat if i had known better then. IMO. The longer you can wait, the better it is for their hormones, growth plates to close etc... but thats just MPO.


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## AgileGSD

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> It's mammary cancer that spaying before first heat works for.
> 
> If you read through that thread, you will find that it's not a leap made without information.


 The newest research seems to be indicating that to increase life expectancy overall, dogs (and humans) should keep their ovaries longer:

"Like women, female dogs in our study had a distinct survival advantage over males. But taking away ovaries during the first four years of life completely erased the female survival advantage. We found that female Rottweilers that kept their ovaries for at least six years were four times more likely to reach exceptional longevity compared to females who had the shortest lifetime ovary exposure," said Waters. Canine Hysterectomies May Decrease Life Expectancy | Pet and Animal News | PetPeoplesPlace.com

To the OP, you may find this information handy (newer research also, stating that to reduce risk of mammary tumors have them spayed prior to 2.5 years old):
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf

And this, specifically about age:
Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete

Personally I would wait until the dog is at least 2 and has had at least one heat cycle. Most GSDs seem to have their first heat between 8-14 months old and average time between cycles is 6-8 months. The exception to waiting would be if you let your dog roam free in the neighbor, have an intact male at your house or leave your dog outside unattended and will continue to do so during a heat cycle. If you are unwilling or unable to properly confine and supervise your dog, she should be spayed sooner rather than later but it would be for your benefit, not her's.



DharmasMom said:


> And I never realized how controversial a subject it was until I started posting here either. I am all for it and say "Good for you!" you are doing your part to keep the pet population down and that is wonderful!!


 Responsible ownership, not altering is doing your part to keep the "overpopulation" (or rather, the abundance of people dumping their dogs) down. Dogs can be intact for their entire lives and never reproduce, if their owners are responsible. Responsible ownership is wonderful!!!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

And again, people can read through this thread: Is Early Neutering Hurting Our Pets???? for all of that back and forth information.


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## MrsWoodcock

AgileGSD said:


> Personally I would wait until the dog is at least 2 and has had at least one heat cycle. Most GSDs seem to have their first heat between 8-14 months old and average time between cycles is 6-8 months. The exception to waiting would be if you let your dog roam free in the neighbor, have an intact male at your house or leave your dog outside unattended and will continue to do so during a heat cycle. If you are unwilling or unable to properly confine and supervise your dog, she should be spayed sooner rather than later but it would be for your benefit, not her's.
> 
> 
> 
> Responsible ownership, not altering is doing your part to keep the "overpopulation" (or rather, the abundance of people dumping their dogs) down. Dogs can be intact for their entire lives and never reproduce, if their owners are responsible. Responsible ownership is wonderful!!!


 :thumbup:


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## JustMeLeslie

This is a subject that no one will ever completely agree upon. I spayed my little girl at 5.5 months because she turned 6 mths. on Christmas eve so I did it before the hustle and bustle of the Christmas holiday. I read on here that some GSD females come in right at 6 mths. so I did not want to take any chances with her and just had it done. 

I have always had my females spayed before their first heats and all have lived to be over 10 yrs. old.


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## DharmasMom

AgileGSD said:


> The newest research seems to be indicating that to increase life expectancy overall, dogs (and humans) should keep their ovaries longer:
> 
> "Like women, female dogs in our study had a distinct survival advantage over males. But taking away ovaries during the first four years of life completely erased the female survival advantage. We found that female Rottweilers that kept their ovaries for at least six years were four times more likely to reach exceptional longevity compared to females who had the shortest lifetime ovary exposure," said Waters. Canine Hysterectomies May Decrease Life Expectancy | Pet and Animal News | PetPeoplesPlace.com
> 
> To the OP, you may find this information handy (newer research also, stating that to reduce risk of mammary tumors have them spayed prior to 2.5 years old):
> http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf
> 
> And this, specifically about age:
> Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete
> 
> Personally I would wait until the dog is at least 2 and has had at least one heat cycle. Most GSDs seem to have their first heat between 8-14 months old and average time between cycles is 6-8 months. The exception to waiting would be if you let your dog roam free in the neighbor, have an intact male at your house or leave your dog outside unattended and will continue to do so during a heat cycle. If you are unwilling or unable to properly confine and supervise your dog, she should be spayed sooner rather than later but it would be for your benefit, not her's.
> 
> 
> 
> Responsible ownership, not altering is doing your part to keep the "overpopulation" (or rather, the abundance of people dumping their dogs) down. Dogs can be intact for their entire lives and never reproduce, if their owners are responsible. Responsible ownership is wonderful!!!



I agree but I think that very few people in this country are actually responsible enough to handle an intact dog. There are people who can but a whole lot of people who can't. Accidents can happen quickly when people look a way for a minute. 

And in reference to the article you linked, is it possible to take the uterus but leave the ovaries? Then the dog can have the benefits of the hormones without having to worry about and accident happening or dealing with a heat cycle.


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## wyominggrandma

Waiting is fine if you can guarantee that NO male will climb the fence, dig under the fence, even breed through the fence. Been spaying/neutering dogs my entire LONG life and until just recently have the "studies" been done about altering early. 
The average bitch does come into heat every 6-8 months, unless you get a girl with messed up cycles: every 3 - 4 months. So, then your option is put them on additional hormones to keep them out of heat and the mess continues or spay.
I will admit that on all the forums/lists I am on, this one is the only one that has people on it that makes a person feel bad for WANTING to spay/neuter their dogs. Since when is it right to make a person feel bad for wanting to do this early instead of dealing with the mess of bitches in heat or wanting the testostorone to start showing up in the male dogs attitude? ITs a very personal decision and just because studies are made to say all dogs need to be intact to make them better dogs, there are just as many studies that say spay/neuter early lessens the chance of cancer.
I have seen many many more intact dogs come into the clinics with mammary/testicular cancer than I have seen come into the clinic with urinary problems or some of the other things mentioned in the study. Bitches with pyometra that lead to death is so common and the average person doesn't realize there is a problem until the bitch is almost dead, they usually end up being spayed anyway.
I do spay/neuter my dogs and always will. Too bad so many people write to ask a question about spaying/neutering and then get trashed for asking it. Sure its a forum, and full of opinions, but nobody should be made to feel awful for "ruining their dog".


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## ValleyGirl

Once had a Welsh Springer Spaniel that I was showing and therefore could not spay. She was about one year old and in my fenced yard with two of my other dogs and a tiny Taco Bell dog dug under the fence and somehow impregnated the spaniel -- my dog would have to have laid down because she was much too tall to mate otherwise with this tiny dog. Point is that it does happen fast sometimes and unless you isolate the female inside during the entire cycle, accidents do happen. Plus even when my dog was in the house with me, the male dogs in the neighborhood stood outside the house and howled. My neighbors were not amused. If you don't show your female, I say spay.


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## AgileGSD

ValleyGirl said:


> Once had a Welsh Springer Spaniel that I was showing and therefore could not spay. She was about one year old and in my fenced yard with two of my other dogs and a tiny Taco Bell dog dug under the fence and somehow impregnated the spaniel -- my dog would have to have laid down because she was much too tall to mate otherwise with this tiny dog. Point is that it does happen fast sometimes and unless you isolate the female inside during the entire cycle, accidents do happen. Plus even when my dog was in the house with me, the male dogs in the neighborhood stood outside the house and howled. My neighbors were not amused. If you don't show your female, I say spay.


 This would be why most people feel that bitches in standing heat shouldn't be left unattended in the yard


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## gsdheeler

It's not that hard to prevent a bitch in season from being bred.
Dr Chrisine Zink DVM PhD had written several articles about the health risks of spay and neuter practices that have become PC today. I had a conversation with a with a person who breeds Berners and she told me they are doing studies on early spay and neuter in Lg breed dogs and early harding of the arteries. So this might be something more to add to the list of conditions associated with early spay and neuter.


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## wyominggrandma

I've been breeding Berners for alot of years and never heard of that happening or that study.

There are good and bad reasons to spay/neuter early or late, just depends on what "camp" you follow,but like I said it should be up to the owner to make that decision and when someone writes to the forum to ask questions, I would think it would be helpful to the person asking for help not to get some many " do it like this or else" type answers.


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## TriadGSD

im getting 
Triad neutered im not planing on breeding him.plus, he has a hernia the vet said he can take care of it when he does the operation. he wont neuter him until he is at least 6 months


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## CassandGunnar

wyominggrandma said:


> I've been breeding Berners for alot of years and never heard of that happening or that study.
> 
> There are good and bad reasons to spay/neuter early or late, just depends on what "camp" you follow,but like I said it should be up to the owner to make that decision and when someone writes to the forum to ask questions, I would think it would be helpful to the person asking for help not to get some many " do it like this or else" type answers.


 
:thumbup::thumbup: Well said.


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## MrsWoodcock

well i know me personally, wasnt telling the OP how to do it. I have my own personal beliefs, and im gonna support anyone's decision to get a dog spayed/ neutered as long as its not at a crazy young age. Ofcourse, young can have different meaning to different people as well.

I personally didnt get a feeling of anyone telling the OP to "do it this way or that way". I did get the feeling that some people were just trying to give more information towards the OP so they had everything to look at, pros and cons, to make the best decision as to what age to spay/neuter.

<3


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## geissap

I clearly need to read more...I don't even know how to tell if she's in heat? Or will I just know? Yikes I had no idea this was such a big deal I thought all non breeders got there dogs spayed and neutered.


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## Emoore

geissap said:


> I clearly need to read more...I don't even know how to tell if she's in heat?


I don't know much about females, but when you see blood coming from her vagina it's a pretty good indication. . .


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## RogueRed26

I plan on waiting to spay Texas till she has full grown and developed. I was going to spay her at 6 months old, but after reading about early spaying and hearing debates with breeders and trainers, I decided to wait. I am not looking forward to her heat, but I can guarantee she won't get pregnant since she lives with me in an apartment on the second floor and will be wearing panties. I do not plan on just throwing her on balcony and that's it. I think everyone has a choice and ultimately its to their judgement that they can deduce a decision.


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## emsoskar

doggiedad said:


> why are you having her spayed???


Why would you ask this? Why NOT have her spayed and prevent possible oops litters? I think it is the responsible thing to do. 

Others have made comments saying its the owners responsibility to make sure a bitch is not bred (which ultimately it is), but how about in this owner's case where he or she doesn't even know how to tell if the dog is in heat? You have to keep in mind most people are not that experienced and do not know how easily a mating can happen. Most people would never think a male would break out of a crate or dig under a fence, or breed through a fence...but it happens. 

It's easy to forget that we all had to start somewhere and with limited knowledge. It would be good to keep that in mind when folks ask questions like this.


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## cassadee7

Yep, I know of a dog who was bred through a chain link fence. Ouch!


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## Kay13411

geissap said:


> I clearly need to read more...I don't even know how to tell if she's in heat? Or will I just know? Yikes I had no idea this was such a big deal I thought all non breeders got there dogs spayed and neutered.


You will know!


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## Myamom

Since I am going through mammary cancer right now with my rescue GSD...I will say...it is not to be taken lightly. It is not just a matter of having the tumor surgically removed and all is well. There is a 50/50 chance it is malignant. Even if you have caught it early...there is no spread...and it's all removed...there is still a chance it will come back. It doesn't end. 
In my girl's case...she had her tumor removed with wide clean margins. She ended up having two tumors within her mammary gland...one was benign...the other malignant. Her malignant tumor -tubular adenocarcinoma (there are many types)...is being called "low grade malignancy which rarely metastasizes" as opposed to one of the many others that are more aggressive. Even so...we were given the option of chemo/radiation or "wait and see". We are choosing wait and see ...and must continue to follow with the surgeon every few months. He said that the cells can still be there...and are impossible to see or remove...so that chance of coming back is always there. 

Mammary tumors in females spayed before their first heat is almost zero percent.


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## bsesender

JustMeLeslie said:


> This is a subject that no one will ever completely agree upon. I spayed my little girl at 5.5 months because she turned 6 mths. on Christmas eve so I did it before the hustle and bustle of the Christmas holiday. I read on here that some GSD females come in right at 6 mths. so I did not want to take any chances with her and just had it done.
> 
> I have always had my females spayed before their first heats and all have lived to be over 10 yrs. old.


did she have a narrow chest and head from spaying early? my pup is going on 6 months now and i am on the fence about waiting since i have read it makes them narrow or smaller, did you find this to be true?


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## cloudpump

bsesender said:


> did she have a narrow chest and head from spaying early? my pup is going on 6 months now and i am on the fence about waiting since i have read it makes them narrow or smaller, did you find this to be true?


This thread is old. There are a bunch of threads going on about this.


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