# Do not get a german shepherd!



## DWP

This is a rant: It is not directed to you, this is what I am screaming in my head as I try and steer the folks at work and other acquaintances that know me as “The German Shepherd Guy” away from my beloved breed. They are thinking about a dog for the family, a companion, a protector for the family etc etc. They don’t have dogs or if they do they are an afterthought beyond their puppyhood.
 DO NOT GET A GERMAN SHEPHERD!!!!!!! 
 You will not train it! You will not exercise it! You will not care for it! You will come to me with stories of how at three months old, it is the smartest, most best behaved dog you have ever known. Then six months later when I ask you how it’s going I find out you had to “give it to your uncle in the country” or you “gave it away” because it went crazy at seven months old and you couldn’t control it. 
 I have had this happen several times through the years and I will do everything I can to keep it from happening again. Every time I see that noble animal in a back yard next to its overturned food bowl staring out beyond the fence, its fur matted with dirt I cringe. 
 Yeah, you wanted a German Shepherd.
 Sorry, but I feel better now.

 Let me say I am not a breeder, competitor or veterinarian. I am simply an owner of German Shepherds and have been around the breed all my life. I dearly love dogs and German Shepherds especially. I have often lamented pet overpopulation and mistreatment, and have taken steps to assist with the problem. I use my ability to donate to shelters as a primary activity.
 As for casual acquaintances and co-workers I am known as the German Shepherd guy. I have a German Shepherd wall calendar and pictures on my computer desk top. Several times a year, I am approached by one of these folks as they express their desire to have a German Shepherd and their intention to obtain one. They inevitably ask for breeder recommendations. I always try and dissuade them from getting a German Shepherd. I do not trash the breed, but simply point out the time and effort required and encourage them to get something else.


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## Mishka&Milo

DWP said:


> This is a rant: It is not directed to you, this is what I am screaming in my head as I try and steer the folks at work and other acquaintances that know me as “The German Shepherd Guy” away from my beloved breed. They are thinking about a dog for the family, a companion, a protector for the family etc etc. They don’t have dogs or if they do they are an afterthought beyond their puppyhood.
> DO NOT GET A GERMAN SHEPHERD!!!!!!!
> You will not train it! You will not exercise it! You will not care for it! You will come to me with stories of how at three months old, it is the smartest, most best behaved dog you have ever known. Then six months later when I ask you how it’s going I find out you had to “give it to your uncle in the country” or you “gave it away” because it went crazy at seven months old and you couldn’t control it.
> I have had this happen several times through the years and I will do everything I can to keep it from happening again. Every time I see that noble animal in a back yard next to its overturned food bowl staring out beyond the fence, its fur matted with dirt I cringe.
> Yeah, you wanted a German Shepherd.
> Sorry, but I feel better now.
> 
> Let me say I am not a breeder, competitor or veterinarian. I am simply an owner of German Shepherds and have been around the breed all my life. I dearly love dogs and German Shepherds especially. I have often lamented pet overpopulation and mistreatment, and have taken steps to assist with the problem. I use my ability to donate to shelters as a primary activity.
> As for casual acquaintances and co-workers I am known as the German Shepherd guy. I have a German Shepherd wall calendar and pictures on my computer desk top. Several times a year, I am approached by one of these folks as they express their desire to have a German Shepherd and their intention to obtain one. They inevitably ask for breeder recommendations. I always try and dissuade them from getting a German Shepherd. I do not trash the breed, but simply point out the time and effort required and encourage them to get something else.


They are a HUGE responsibility. People tend to look at getting a dog like they look at buying a new pair of shoes. They expect them to look perfect, and then when they get tired of them.... Just to be able to lock them away in a closet and get them out when it pleases THEM. People don't realize the years of training, and the hours of work it has taken to make a dog be like the ones they see on tv. They're a part of the family, not a robot with no needs or emotions. 


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## Scout's Mama

DWP said:


> They don’t have dogs or if they do they are an afterthought beyond their puppyhood.
> DO NOT GET A GERMAN SHEPHERD!!!!!!!
> You will not train it! You will not exercise it! You will not care for it!


I hear you. Perhaps tell your friend/coworker to substitute "child" for "GSD" in their conversation? No one would casually say "so I've been wanting a _child_ to keep me company when the spouse is working late..." Or at least they shouldn't  I love my fur children and my human kids - but they're BOTH a lot of work!

Feel better and rant as needed!


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## misslesleedavis1

Working with a rescue i am always wary of people wanting puppies or older dogs (i am a little jaded). I have to remind myself alot that great people exist everywere, people that will not give up and discard their once beloved pets. Its a pretty sad scene. If you can make someone go "no thats not the dog for me" simply by telling them what they truly require then you are doing a service to the breed.


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## wolfstraum

I am a breeder and I do the same thing! Quite a few people have called/written me in the last month wanting puppies. I have two litters coming. At least 4 of these, I spent 30 to 45 minutes with exploring their experience, lifestyle etc....one young man was recommended to rescue a greyhound...the others I have tried to steer to an older settled rescue dog or a showline or no pup at all....

This is NOT a breed for everyone. It is way too popular. It is way too easily purchased. Even Amish puppy mill litters are extolled via cute websites giving each pup a name and a photo set up like a little yearbook sucking people in - someone is making a mint with setting these up for them I am sure! I cringe and my heart breaks for those poor pups who are bred for nothing but commercial gain and know many people are taken in by the cute photos.

I cringe every time I hear "I just want a pet". I try to educate. I try to explain the quality of a well bred dog, the pitfalls of a BYB, the financial commitment a good breeder has in their dogs (for example $8,000 invested and lost in a breeding female, only to have her retired due to a litter on the third attempt of only 4 - 2 of whom were dwarfs, 1 born dead, lost stud fees when breedings did not 'take' both in Germany and here) that the price of pups in this one litter does not mean greed or 95% profit! Doing this right is expensive. If their biggest concern about a puppy is the price or open papers & breeding rights - right off the bat, they are not good candidates for a puppy. 

Lee


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## glinny

If a GSD wouldn't be the dog for them, what breed would be? I wouldn't want to see any dog left out in the yard and not taken care of. What do you recommend for them? Sounds like they shouldn't have any kind of a pet.


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## Okin

Scout's Mama said:


> I hear you. Perhaps tell your friend/coworker to substitute "child" for "GSD" in their conversation? No one would casually say "so I've been wanting a _child_ to keep me company when the spouse is working late..." Or at least they shouldn't  I love my fur children and my human kids - but they're BOTH a lot of work!
> 
> Feel better and rant as needed!


Sadly I have seen similar as justification for having an actual child. Having had other dogs I would say a GSD is one of the most time/energy intensive pets I have ever owned.


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## misslesleedavis1

@Wolfstraum

How do you go about picking people that want to purchase then?
Just curious, my next GSD will come from a reputable breeder, i did luck out with Tyson and Shiloh though they are wonderful dogs. What qualifies a person? I always have a little bit of anxiety about that sort of stuff. I have 3 happy healthy dogs and i would not even consider adding to my collection, but in 12 or 15 years i will be.


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## DWP

*What do I recomend?*

Of course not all folks are in the bad owner catagory. I have assisted those that I know already have dogs and have discussed proper care and training. Most folks I don't recomend any dog. I don't want to be responsible for another neglected animal. I may be protecting my self, but I am very carefull. As to how? The same as anybody else. You ask questions and get a sense of them the best you can.


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## RubyTuesday

> Every time I see that noble animal in a back yard next to its overturned food bowl staring out beyond the fence, its fur matted with dirt I cringe.


People who keep dogs relegated to a solitary life in the back yard shouldn't have dogs of any breed or age. All dogs need companionship, mental stimulation, physical activity, training, grooming, affection & commitment. There are people who have the wrong breed & can be directed to a more suitable breed. Too often I see people who should not have a dog at all. Some of em would do all right with cats. All too many are barely suited to pet rocks. Way, way, waaay too many are serial owner/dumpers who acquire a dog, blame the poor beast for being too big, furry, untrained, active etc, dump it & get a 'better' dog, which almost invariably suffers the same fate.


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## Galathiel

As my pup has settled a bit in public (faking it for the fans  ), people often gush over him, his beauty, calm (ha!), good temperament, expressing their own love/want for GSDs. What they don't get is how HARD it is to raise a puppy, particularly this one. I work full time and constantly have guilt over the time my pup has to be crated, my first and last thought of the day are about him and I fret over him while I'm at work. I spend an inordinate amount of time with him in mind. I'm exhausted!


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## Lilie

I hate when co-workes ask me how 'protective' is my GSD? I normally reply saying, "Well, this morning I was about to stuff a donut into my mouth and he snatched it away and ate it. He knows I'm dieting."


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## Liz&Anna

Galathiel said:


> As my pup has settled a bit in public (faking it for the fans  ), people often gush over him, his beauty, calm (ha!), good temperament, expressing their own love/want for GSDs. What they don't get is how HARD it is to raise a puppy, particularly this one. I work full time and constantly have guilt over the time my pup has to be crated, my first and last thought of the day are about him and I fret over him while I'm at work. I spend an inordinate amount of time with him in mind. I'm exhausted!


IT'S TRUE!! I work full time also and no matter how tired I am the FIRST thing I do when I get home is grab Anna's leash- her ball- a training lead hahah a treat pouch (I look like Rambo) and head out! Rain, or shine, 3 degrees outside?? We're still going. I owe it to her. 

I've been around dogs all my life I've been training for a while (with my other dog Sam) and I think it all the time how easy it would be to mess Anna up. She is a bit Barky right now when approaching other dogs outside- I'm convinced she will out grow it and I will never let her be in a bad situation where harm could come to her and scar her. I know how easy it would be for a "less educated" person to react poorly to this behavior and make it worse or turn it in to aggression. I say to myself every time we begin to train and I can see her intensity how "this breed is NOT for most people" 

I would discourage almost everyone I know from getting one. Unless you are extremely dedicated and active it's NOT a good choice at all. 




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## Kahrg4

Lilie said:


> I hate when co-workes ask me how 'protective' is my GSD? I normally reply saying, "Well, this morning I was about to stuff a donut into my mouth and he snatched it away and ate it. He knows I'm dieting."


:spittingcoffee:
Well trained pup you've got there. lol


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## DaniFani

I don't know, I really like talking about GSDs and most people are just un-informed and don't know any better. A friend I re-connected with after years of losing touch, contacted me because of pics of my pups and IPO work on FB. She asked me about a few breeders she was looking at (all "over-sized, old fashion" breeders). I just told her about working vs showlines, the different traits, why I chose what I did for our second. Explained what I believed a "reputable" breeder is, traits she needs to look for if she wants a sport/IPO dog, etc. It was fun chatting with her, I gave her some places to read and things to check out. She's now waiting until she's better prepared, looking at some strong breeders, and taking her time/waiting until she's ready for the right pup for her.

Shepherds are supposed to be the utility family dog that everyone can handle, are they not? Sure they require obedience and exercise, I'm of the opinion most dogs need that anyway. We've just bred to so many extremes that it's hard to find that, but I believe it's still out there. I just try and educate on how to get that and who I think they should talk to. If someone wants to chain a dog up outside, isolate it, or any other extreme, I wouldn't recommend any dog.....maybe a rabbit in a rabbit cage and a good alarm system. I'm not talking about extremes or bad people wanting GSDs, I'm talking about the average joe with wife and kiddos that wants a GSD, but is clueless beyond cute ears and big dog.

I know a lot of people don't want to take the time, or don't have the time to "educate," I enjoy it, and find that usually when you tell someone not to do something, they'll give you an "uh, huh...sure thing." Then they go do what they want anyway(most of the time more determined than ever), only they still don't know how to do it or what to look for. There is a reason 90% of the people on here, myself included, had a poorly bred, byb first GSD, and learned a lot of hard lessons. We just didn't know any better. I (hopefully) saved my friend from that by having a fun conversation and pointing her to good resources and people.

How many here, when they first started looking at GSDs, probably could have been told (because they had no idea what they were getting into) not to get a GSD and move on to another breed. I bet a lot, but it would have made most of them try all the harder to get one. I know I would lol.

Side note, I'm still in the beginning years of "save the breed and inform/educate everyone" I know a lot burn out from that. I haven't yet, but I understand it.


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## DWP

*Good Point*

DaniFani, you made a good thoughtfull contribution. Thank you.


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## Kayos and Havoc

I got my first GSD as a pet for my son. Had no idea what I was doing or what I was getting. 

25 years later I still have them and compete with them. I am a great owner and not really bragging, just have learned through trial and error and education. 

25 years a go you might have told me a GSD was not for me. Who are you to decide? 

I see the point you are making and I agree we need to educate and help people understand dogs take care, training, exercise and a big commitment of time and resources. Some will hear, some will not. I don't think it matters whether the dog in question is a poodle or a GSD. If they can't or won't take the time to care for and socialize and train it, they don't need a dog at all. 

I could start on my neighbors with the border collie tossed in the yard going crazy...... they surely do not need that dog so I really see what you are saying.


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## shepherdmom

Liz&Anna said:


> I say to myself every time we begin to train and I can see her intensity how "this breed is NOT for most people"
> 
> I would discourage almost everyone I know from getting one. Unless you are extremely dedicated and active it's NOT a good choice at all.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I disagree. First you are looking at a working dog. Not all people have working German Shepherds. 

Second my husband and I aren't extremely active any more, but that doesn't keep us from shepherds. We have 5 acres.. & 4 soon to be 5 dogs. Just letting them play on our land. Chasing rabbits and squirrels and throwing a kong and kicking a basket ball several times a day wears out the energy and they are content to be inside with us. They have a dog door to an outside pen and often times will go lay in the sun or just chase each other around.


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## nicky

Thanks DWP for the thread, I never really thought about that before. I am new to the breed but it seems that everywhere I go with my GSD everyone comments on her, asks where I got her, has questions,and wants one. I now refer them to this forum since I am nowhere close to a spokesperson for the breed.

All I know is that I have had lots of dogs throughout my life, really good dogs of various breeds. MY GSD has been the most "high maintenance" dog I have ever had. There were many times, especially 3-7 months where I wondered if I could make it with her. Is that bad to say? Finally I realized I needed more training than my dog before I could even begin to teach her anything. Luckily, I have lots of time and she is with me almost constantly and we have finally gotten into a "groove". I cannot imagine someone owning a dog like mine and having her chained in the backyard or kept in a dog yard all the time. It would destroy her.


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## blackshep

Good post DaniFani.

I do think it's important to educate people on the need to work and train their GSD, but I disagree with the thinking that a GSD isn't a good choice for someone wanting a companion. 

That's why I got mine. I'm single and live in the country, so I wanted a dog who was going to be vigilant about alerting to strangers approaching the house and as it turns out, I've ended up really enjoying working my dog, more than I ever thought I would. I wanted the companionship.

They are supposed to be a good family dog, albeit an active one. Prospective owners should be prepared to invest time and training into a GSD, and they should be prepared to research breeders and what bloodlines they want. At the end of the day, you can read about GSD's all you want, but you will never know what it is to have one and work with one unless you take the plunge. Everyone has had their first GSD, and I'm sure everyone has learned a lot with each dog.

I'm a novice handler and have a lot to learn, my dog has a low threshold and gets overstimulated pretty easily. But I think we are both happy to be in one anothers lives. I adore my dog, and I know she adores me too. I can't wait to get home from work to see her, she's one of the best things I have in my life. There are things I've learned with her that I hope will make my next GSD a bit easier, but I don't regret the decision to take her home for a minute, and I'm glad her breeder didn't refuse to sell to a pet home.


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## Liz&Anna

shepherdmom said:


> I disagree. First you are looking at a working dog. Not all people have working German Shepherds.
> 
> Second my husband and I aren't extremely active any more, but that doesn't keep us from shepherds. We have 5 acres.. & 4 soon to be 5 dogs. Just letting them play on our land. Chasing rabbits and squirrels and throwing a kong and kicking a basket ball several times a day wears out the energy and they are content to be inside with us. They have a dog door to an outside pen and often times will go lay in the sun or just chase each other around.


True she is working lines. But I feel like a German shepherd in general needs more exercise and training then a shih tzu- or then my Chinese crested who prefers to sleep on pillows- and refuses to go outside in the rain or the cold. different breeds fit different life styles, not everyone who wants a German shepherds has 5 acres of land to allow them to run, or the knowledge to keep peace in a household with more then one strong breed type of dog. 




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## Liz&Anna

Quite frankly I'm also my a fan of putting a dog I'm a yard and hoping they find ways to entertain themselves either. 


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## shepherdmom

Liz&Anna said:


> True she is working lines. But I feel like a German shepherd in general needs more exercise and training then a shih tzu- or then my Chinese crested who prefers to sleep on pillows- and refuses to go outside in the rain or the cold. different breeds fit different life styles, not everyone who wants a German shepherds has 5 acres of land to allow them to run, or the knowledge to keep peace in a household with more then one strong breed type of dog.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Agree that a German Shepherd isn't for everyone and they do need more work than a shih tzu. But don't count people out just because they don't have an active lifestyle. There are ways around it. I think anyone willing to meet the needs of the dog, however it is managed, should be encouraged rather than discouraged. Maybe encouraged away from a working line puppy into a show line senior but still encouraged.


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## Drago

Kayos and Havoc said:


> I got my first GSD as a pet for my son. Had no idea what I was doing or what I was getting.
> 
> 25 years later I still have them and compete with them. I am a great owner and not really bragging, just have learned through trial and error and education.
> 
> 25 years a go you might have told me a GSD was not for me. Who are you to decide?
> 
> I see the point you are making and I agree we need to educate and help people understand dogs take care, training, exercise and a big commitment of time and resources. Some will hear, some will not. I don't think it matters whether the dog in question is a poodle or a GSD. If they can't or won't take the time to care for and socialize and train it, they don't need a dog at all.
> 
> I could start on my neighbors with the border collie tossed in the yard going crazy...... they surely do not need that dog so I really see what you are saying.


 :thumbup::thumbup:


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## shepherdmom

Liz&Anna said:


> Quite frankly I'm also my a fan of putting a dog I'm a yard and hoping they find ways to entertain themselves either.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'm guess you mean not a fan. Darn phones lol. I didn't say I put them in the yard... I said I went outside with them and threw kongs, and kicked basketballs. Watched while they played with each other and me. They have access to their pen but they are never allowed out in the full yard without one of us.


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## MichaelE

Galathiel said:


> As my pup has settled a bit in public (faking it for the fans  ), people often gush over him, his beauty, calm (ha!), good temperament, expressing their own love/want for GSDs. What they don't get is how HARD it is to raise a puppy, particularly this one. I work full time and constantly have guilt over the time my pup has to be crated, my first and last thought of the day are about him and I fret over him while I'm at work. I spend an inordinate amount of time with him in mind. I'm exhausted!


That's me too.


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## Castlemaid

Also, if I remember correctly, shepherdmom, your dogs were adult rescues? 

Big difference in getting an older dog whose temperament and energy level is already known, to a clueless person wanting a GSD _puppy_ and not being aware of its needs or be willing to meet them as the pup matures.


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## Baillif

But I did so well with Peanutbutter! he's the most behaved dog ever...maybe I'll go with a malinois instead. They're easier right?


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## misslesleedavis1

Baillif said:


> But I did so well with Peanutbutter! he's the most behaved dog ever...maybe I'll go with a malinois instead. They're easier right?


I have never seen a lab around here that did not look like that.


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## Piper'sgrl

its not DONT GET A GERMAN SHEPHERD...it goes for any breed...


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## Susan_GSD_mom

DWP said:


> As for casual acquaintances and co-workers I am known as the German Shepherd guy. I have a German Shepherd wall calendar and pictures on my computer desk top. Several times a year, I am approached by one of these folks as they express their desire to have a German Shepherd and their intention to obtain one. They inevitably ask for breeder recommendations. I always try and dissuade them from getting a German Shepherd. I do not trash the breed, but simply point out the time and effort required and encourage them to get something else.


AMEN!!

Been there, done that, over and over again! I am retired, and someone I used to work with just contacted me, wanting me to give her some of my GSD contacts. NEVER! I like this woman, had worked with her for years, and I am NOT going to do it! I always go into the shedding, the chewing, the energy, all the work involved--are they ready for another child in the house? Well a GSD puppy is going to be the same amount of work, if not more, than a child! And she doesn't have a fence, doesn't have anywhere for the dog to be while she's at work, etc., etc.


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## artemisnhounds

I am utterly heartbroken when I see pups that are ignored or just gotten because their child wants a dog. Before getting my dog I took several things into consideration. I wanted a high energy dog to take with me on walks and hikes. I have the time and energy to devote to raising him just as I would a child and realize he is a life long commitment. Regardless even small dogs should not be thrown outside for long periods of time... That is not exercise. All dogs should get intellectual stimulation and be trained well regardless of how large or small they are. Some people just don't deserve pets


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## shepherdmom

Castlemaid said:


> Also, if I remember correctly, shepherdmom, your dogs were adult rescues?
> 
> Big difference in getting an older dog whose temperament and energy level is already known, to a clueless person wanting a GSD _puppy_ and not being aware of its needs or be willing to meet them as the pup matures.


Oh I've got a mixture. :laugh: Buddy is from a breeder and was raised from a pup. 2 were older pups from shelters (non GSD). Tasha is 7 and was from a rescue and we are getting a rescue puppy when he turns 12 weeks. 

But I've also had many dogs for many year. I wouldn't recommend a German Shepherd puppy for first time dog owners who are my age. But what I'm saying is rather than discourage people how about suggesting an old rescue or a show line rather than a working line. I wish someone had pointed me at the show lines sooner.


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## alexg

wolfstraum said:


> ...the others I have tried to steer to an older settled rescue dog or a *showline* or no pup at all...
> ....
> Lee


Hi Lee, could you please explain why? 
Thanks.


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## vicky2200

I encourage people to get the breed. I think they are a pretty easy breed if you know about dogs.


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## zyppi

my other 'favorite' reason for getting a pup (_read not!_)is when people say they are getting a pup for their existing dog?? I mean, really? Usually that means, maybe the pup will entertain the existing dog. Or at least I read it that way.

Two dogs are three times the work, IMHO.

And each deserves a huge slice of owners attention and care.

The other thing that makes me want to say, 'just don't' is the would be owner who thinks saving the $$ for the purchase price is the biggest financial hurdle.

These dogs can be over the top expensive if they have 'issues,' and just good basic care is not cheap.

Whew... now I feel better:laugh:


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## misslesleedavis1

zyppi said:


> my other 'favorite' reason for getting a pup (_read not!_)is when people say they are getting a pup for their existing dog?? I mean, really? Usually that means, maybe the pup will entertain the existing dog. Or at least I read it that way.
> 
> Two dogs are three times the work, IMHO.
> 
> And each deserves a huge slice of owners attention and care.
> 
> The other thing that makes me want to say, 'just don't' is the would be owner who thinks saving the $$ for the purchase price is the biggest financial hurdle.
> 
> These dogs can be over the top expensive if they have 'issues,' and just good basic care is not cheap.
> 
> Whew... now I feel better:laugh:


jeez thats how i sucked my SO into rescuing Shiloh......he needs a boat buddy, a walking buddy...another dog to spend time with when we are not around...lol i had like 1000 reasons


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## SuperG

vicky2200 said:


> I encourage people to get the breed. I think they are a pretty easy breed if you know about dogs.



I do as well but.........I certainly say the same .."if you know about dogs".

Sometimes, by just knowing the person and their habits and past performance I might suggest otherwise. I'll always remember this person's comments regarding a dog they had briefly..." got rid of it because it wasn't house trained in 3 weeks...." 

No doubt a GSD is a project and the breed does not do so well left to their own devices but I truly believe the effort, dedication and other responsibilities involved with a GSD pup is more than worth the effort. You get "paid" back incredibly well.

Definitely not a dog for many and unfortunately all too many have GSDs.

Best breed for me however,


SuperG


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## mcdanfam

After having a jack Russell for almost 14 years...I was worried about getting GSD's....the jack Russell could not go with us to a lot of places....he was very unpredictable...he also did not care for going or doing...he seemed to relish the house to himself. The biggest adjustment we have made...is having dogs go everywhere we go. They think they have to tag along everywhere...even if is is to the grocery store. 

When people ask us for info....the first thing I say....be ready to have a toddler! If you can't have a dog with you all day, almost everywhere you go, don't get a GSD....it seems the most important thing for the GSD is being a huge part of the family....if you cant dedicate a ton of quality time...get a breed that prefers some alone time. I am still shocked how much time they want to spend with us. 


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## GermanShepherdCrazy

DWP said:


> This is a rant: It is not directed to you, this is what I am screaming in my head as I try and steer the folks at work and other acquaintances that know me as “The German Shepherd Guy” away from my beloved breed. They are thinking about a dog for the family, a companion, a protector for the family etc etc. They don’t have dogs or if they do they are an afterthought beyond their puppyhood.
> DO NOT GET A GERMAN SHEPHERD!!!!!!!
> You will not train it! You will not exercise it! You will not care for it! You will come to me with stories of how at three months old, it is the smartest, most best behaved dog you have ever known. Then six months later when I ask you how it’s going I find out you had to “give it to your uncle in the country” or you “gave it away” because it went crazy at seven months old and you couldn’t control it.
> I have had this happen several times through the years and I will do everything I can to keep it from happening again. Every time I see that noble animal in a back yard next to its overturned food bowl staring out beyond the fence, its fur matted with dirt I cringe.
> Yeah, you wanted a German Shepherd.
> Sorry, but I feel better now.
> 
> Let me say I am not a breeder, competitor or veterinarian. I am simply an owner of German Shepherds and have been around the breed all my life. I dearly love dogs and German Shepherds especially. I have often lamented pet overpopulation and mistreatment, and have taken steps to assist with the problem. I use my ability to donate to shelters as a primary activity.
> As for casual acquaintances and co-workers I am known as the German Shepherd guy. I have a German Shepherd wall calendar and pictures on my computer desk top. Several times a year, I am approached by one of these folks as they express their desire to have a German Shepherd and their intention to obtain one. They inevitably ask for breeder recommendations. I always try and dissuade them from getting a German Shepherd. I do not trash the breed, but simply point out the time and effort required and encourage them to get something else.


I'm actually getting one as a puppy VERY soon and I'm SUPER excited!! If no one was willing to take the time and effort in taking care of German Shepherds and training them and such then no one would have one and there would be shelters and rescues filled with them just like they already are with other breeds. I'm not saying that you're trashing the breed but it does sound like it.


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## zyppi

mcdanfam said:


> After having a jack Russell for almost 14 years...I was worried about getting GSD's....the jack Russell could not go with us to a lot of places....he was very unpredictable...he also did not care for going or doing...he seemed to relish the house to himself. The biggest adjustment we have made...is having dogs go everywhere we go. They think they have to tag along everywhere...even if is is to the grocery store.
> 
> When people ask us for info....the first thing I say....be ready to have a toddler! If you can't have a dog with you all day, almost everywhere you go, don't get a GSD....it seems the most important thing for the GSD is being a huge part of the family....if you cant dedicate a ton of quality time...get a breed that prefers some alone time. I am still shocked how much time they want to spend with us.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ok, Jack Russell is a whole 'nut her thing!!

Hats off to you for having the energy:wild:


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## mcdanfam

zyppi said:


> Ok, Jack Russell is a whole 'nut her thing!!
> 
> Hats off to you for having the energy:wild:


Yes....after all the horror story's of GSD's we were almost talked out of them! So glad we were not. They do have a lot of energy, but the love they have for the family if allowed to be a part of it....is priceless! Our jack Russell hated kids, he was a rescue, he could NOT be trusted with them, he was food aggressive....it was a long 14 years. GSD's take a ton of energy and lots of work....but what they give back...makes it worth it...all we got from the jack Russell was work, no reward...:-/ he was like a cat....full dictator, no affection. 


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## Magwart

GermanShepherdCrazy said:


> If no one was willing to take the time and effort in taking care of German Shepherds and training them and such then no one would have one and there would be shelters and rescues filled with them just like they already are with other breeds.


Actually, shelters and rescues _are _filled with them. There are more GSDs dying in shelters than can be rescued. The most common age I see is adolescence--right about the time that cute, fluffy puppy stops being cute and starts needing leadership. Rottweilers and GSDs are among the most common breeds seen in my public shelter, after bully breeds--we had 8 GSDs come into the public shelter in one week this month, and we are a _small_ city!

Since pictures talk louder than words, the dogs in these pictures *were euthanized *in a public shelter this week. The little one was no more than *a year old*. The older one was surrendered because she was dog reactive in heat...and destroyed, while in heat because she was dog reactive...instead of just spaying her. Both were in this shelter barely a week before being euthanized--and neither was human aggressive or a biter. Don't think for a second that GSDs don't die in shelters -- they do!



RIP:


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## misslesleedavis1

Luckily i grew up sourrounded by parents that did not have anything to say about any breed that was negative. We had border collies so exercise was not surprising at all infact my shepherds are couch dogs compared to my BC. Back to why my parents rocked  they loved all the dogs that followed me home regardless of looks..my dad always said "shepherds are beautiful dogs and so very smart" he was right. I was lucky, i hear now parents tell little ones things like "stay away it will bite" or "look at that nasty dog" and i think, you are doing your kids no service by enforcing breed prejudice. I have always told my little guy the basic things about dog safety, but i would never slam a breed.


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## mcdanfam

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Luckily i grew up sourrounded by parents that did not have anything to say about any breed that was negative. We had border collies so exercise was not surprising at all infact my shepherds are couch dogs compared to my BC. Back to why my parents rocked  they loved all the dogs that followed me home regardless of looks..my dad always said "shepherds are beautiful dogs and so very smart" he was right. I was lucky, i hear now parents tell little ones things like "stay away it will bite" or "look at that nasty dog" and i think, you are doing your kids no service by enforcing breed prejudice. I have always told my little guy the basic things about dog safety, but i would never slam a breed.


We were walking downtown....the little girls wanted to pet the dogs...the mom said no, the dad said she could. The mom was horrified he gave her permission. The little girl said....see mom....no reason to be scared. The lady left adoring our pups....but most that are afraid...are the adults....trying convince the kids to be afraid. 


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## David Taggart

A single individual cannot do much. There should be law reinforcement. *This breed should be licenced.* Just look what is going on - another thread is talking about genetics and programs how to bring up already "friendly-bred" GSD. European police started to refuse GSD (that is how I got my dog), they use equipment instead and do not need agressive patrol or sniffer dogs, besides - dogs are a pretty weak protection against guns. But, in Europe you simply cannot buy any breed puppy without passing the exam. It is the fate GSD faces - to become just a pet dog mainly, because the main supporter of the breed, the US police will refuse them one day. Nothing wrong with it, but who can be the owner? Raising public awareness through TV programs is simply not enough, people do not read and don't have time for TV, those who set their minds will get what they want.


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## Drago

David Taggart said:


> A single individual cannot do much. There should be law reinforcement. *This breed should be licenced.* Just look what is going on - another thread is talking about genetics and programs how to bring up already "friendly-bred" GSD. European police started to refuse GSD (that is how I got my dog), they use equipment instead and do not need agressive patrol or sniffer dogs, besides - dogs are a pretty weak protection against guns. But, in Europe you simply cannot buy any breed puppy without passing the exam. It is the fate GSD faces - to become just a pet dog mainly, because the main supporter of the breed, the US police will refuse them one day. Nothing wrong with it, but who can be the owner? Raising public awareness through TV programs is simply not enough, people do not read and don't have time for TV, those who set their minds will get what they want.


 I originally was looking at getting a malinois because the GSD's I saw in the area that neighbors have had or in passing looked really out of shape with a odd shaped back. That is before I was schooled on what a WL Shepherd by a breeder and that is when my research started.

I do disagree with a few statements above, one being "pretty weak protection against guns". I just finished reading "Trident K9 Warriors", the author was a former SEAL and now selects dogs for SOF units. There is a lot of emphasis on Malinois and Dutch Shepherds, however he mentions "some" German Shepherds. It appears they are still being used, even by the military. I don't have a lot of experience here, but my opinion and is America is getting lazy. Everyone wants instant gratification and rarely do people want to put the work in. I don't know how hard it will be when my pup comes, but I do know my wife and I just had our first baby and it's great. It's work, but we love it . We are now waiting for our next family member to arrive and doubt it will be any different.


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## Good_Karma

I made the mistake of encouraging someone to get a GSD once. He was someone I knew fairly well, and that I had respect for. I saw how he treated his previous dog, who was a shepherd mix. When the dog passed away, this man was interested in the breed because he liked my GSD.

My husband and I did our best to educate him. We invited him to our house, spent the afternoon going over all of our experiences and giving him books we had read. We told him about the mistakes we had made and what we would do differently. We helped him find a breeder through our breeder. It should have been a good match. He is a single guy, no hobbies except running (perfect!) and martial arts. He lives in a college town, works on campus (socialization!!) and has a good income (training classes!!!).

In the end, he took the puppy to campus a few times, at least until he was no longer a chick magnet and started barking at people. And he only ran with him a few times because the dog pulled on leash. The only training the dog got was the one move this guy learned from Cesar Milan which was to yank the leash. The dog stays home alone now. He can't be trusted around other dogs. Or kids. The dog has a very narrow, small world to exist in, and it makes me sad for the poor fella.

So after that experience, of having faith in someone to be a good owner and being so disappointed, I will never recommend a GSD to someone. Or try to help them find a breeder, other than the one I used.

But you know, I was new to the breed when I got Niko, and I am glad my breeder had faith in me even though I just wanted Niko for a pet. It was a real rocky start, I won't lie about that, and if my husband and I had been less determined or more willing to accept failure, things would have ended very differently. But as it is, we stuck it out and we learned a lot, and I hope that next time we go looking for a breeder, they will have faith in us that we have learned from our mistakes and will always be committed to the dog no matter what.


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## llombardo

German Shepherds are not the only breeds that have requirements. So as a person that loves dogs in general I do not tell people not to get a GSD if they can't exercise or train it, I tell them to not get any dog plain and simple.


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## llombardo

And it's pathetic how many dogs of all breeds die in shelters. I'm sure that lots of them come from breeders and those breeders don't have a clue one of theirs is in a shelter or was just put to sleep. I am going home and hugging my dogs, because a couple of them were pretty close to dying.


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## LoveEcho

Good_Karma said:


> But you know, I was new to the breed when I got Niko, and I am glad my breeder had faith in me even though I just wanted Niko for a pet. It was a real rocky start, I won't lie about that, and if my husband and I had been less determined or more willing to accept failure, things would have ended very differently. But as it is, we stuck it out and we learned a lot, and I hope that next time we go looking for a breeder, they will have faith in us that we have learned from our mistakes and will always be committed to the dog no matter what.


Yes! I think the experience matters much less than the type of person you're dealing with. Many of us here were total newbs to the breed and have done well, even with bumps in the road. I wouldn't recommend a GSD to someone who just "wants a dog" (I think of many families when I say this, including my own growing up). I would recommend a GSD to someone who wanted something more, a partnership, etc.


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## mcdanfam

Drago said:


> I originally was looking at getting a malinois because the GSD's I saw in the area that neighbors have had or in passing looked really out of shape with a odd shaped back. That is before I was schooled on what a WL Shepherd by a breeder and that is when my research started.
> 
> I do disagree with a few statements above, one being "pretty weak protection against guns". I just finished reading "Trident K9 Warriors", the author was a former SEAL and now selects dogs for SOF units. There is a lot of emphasis on Malinois and Dutch Shepherds, however he mentions "some" German Shepherds. It appears they are still being used, even by the military. I don't have a lot of experience here, but my opinion and is America is getting lazy. Everyone wants instant gratification and rarely do people want to put the work in. I don't know how hard it will be when my pup comes, but I do know my wife and I just had our first baby and it's great. It's work, but we love it . We are now waiting for our next family member to arrive and doubt it will be any different.



I agree...to many adults and kids do not want to put the effort in and just want the end results....our kids (13 and 16) had to agree to helping with the puppy's. They had to set alarms for potty training and waking through the night to help and be involved. They have to go to vet appointments, learn how to talk and interact with the vet. Have to help with any preventive meds. They are also required to go to training every Saturday singer we got them, feeding, walking, playing with and practice training. A lot of work, but they are so close to the dogs, they also appreciate them much more than if they were not helping! 

Congrats on baby! Congrats on your soon to be furbaby! I can't tell you how wonderful the additions will be! We were told never to get shepherds! So many horror story's!!! Can't tell you how much we love them and how enjoyable they have been! They are work!!! But worth every second of energy, time and money. The training has been the best thing....but your baby will never have a better friend and better protector. Our male had never met the newborn of friend. The second he met her, she was his! He laid beside her for over 4 hours, never leaving her side until she woke. I have the best pics of that evening....and every time she is around...she has a shadow. I really can say...the pups were the best decision we have ever made! They have absolutely completed our family. But we have put tons of time, energy, and training into them. They go everywhere we do....and today....when I left them home...was the first time in two weeks...they did not get in be car when I did. My girls rarely choose a place to eat or visit that dogs are not allowed...:-/ 


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## Drago

Thank you! I told my breeder what's up and he is providing his wisdom and knowledge in picking out the right pup for us. I was informed by some, (I wanted their opinion on the pedigree), that it may be too much dog for me out of the gate. Right now I don't want a firearm in my house, I don't live in the worst of areas, but I have a lot of foot traffic by my house heading to an apartment complex. There have been shootings and it seems like it is getting worse, it's kinda sad because the area used to be nice. A man entered my backyard, luckily I was home, and approached my wife saying weird things. I didn't know his intent... This is when she was pregnant, he left once I came out. I have a rather large fenced in yard, chain link, and I'm assuming this WL GSD will be a deterrent. I know when I met breeders dogs, there was a stare that would stop you in your tracks. I liked it...I didn't fear the dog, I respected the dog. After that it was over and I wouldn't choose another breed to put a deposit on.

I'm also reading up on some threads and other forums regarding dominant pups. I have plans with trainer as well. I had some advice thrown my way which I liked, she said "leadership is to be FIRM, FAIR, CONSISTENT. Puppies, especially from strong working lines like in the pedigree of this litter, will challenge your patience, but you have to remain CALM in your dealings with the pup."

Bottom line, it's going to take work...I'm not sure if I want to title the dog...we shall see. For now, I'm enjoying the baby, and I'm sure I'll be enjoying the pup too when he comes.



mcdanfam said:


> I agree...to many adults and kids do not want to put the effort in and just want the end results....our kids (13 and 16) had to agree to helping with the puppy's. They had to set alarms for potty training and waking through the night to help and be involved. They have to go to vet appointments, learn how to talk and interact with the vet. Have to help with any preventive meds. They are also required to go to training every Saturday singer we got them, feeding, walking, playing with and practice training. A lot of work, but they are so close to the dogs, they also appreciate them much more than if they were not helping!
> 
> Congrats on baby! Congrats on your soon to be furbaby! I can't tell you how wonderful the additions will be! We were told never to get shepherds! So many horror story's!!! Can't tell you how much we love them and how enjoyable they have been! They are work!!! But worth every second of energy, time and money. The training has been the best thing....but your baby will never have a better friend and better protector. Our male had never met the newborn of friend. The second he met her, she was his! He laid beside her for over 4 hours, never leaving her side until she woke. I have the best pics of that evening....and every time she is around...she has a shadow. I really can say...the pups were the best decision we have ever made! They have absolutely completed our family. But we have put tons of time, energy, and training into them. They go everywhere we do....and today....when I left them home...was the first time in two weeks...they did not get in be car when I did. My girls rarely choose a place to eat or visit that dogs are not allowed...:-/
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## mcdanfam

Drago said:


> Thank you! I told my breeder what's up and he is providing his wisdom and knowledge in picking out the right pup for us. I was informed by some, (I wanted their opinion on the pedigree), that it may be too much dog for me out of the gate. Right now I don't want a firearm in my house, I don't live in the worst of areas, but I have a lot of foot traffic by my house heading to an apartment complex. There have been shootings and it seems like it is getting worse, it's kinda sad because the area used to be nice. A man entered my backyard, luckily I was home, and approached my wife saying weird things. I didn't know his intent... This is when she was pregnant, he left once I came out. I have a rather large fenced in yard, chain link, and I'm assuming this WL GSD will be a deterrent. I know when I met breeders dogs, there was a stare that would stop you in your tracks. I liked it...I didn't fear the dog, I respected the dog. After that it was over and I wouldn't choose another breed to put a deposit on.
> 
> I'm also reading up on some threads and other forums regarding dominant pups. I have plans with trainer as well. I had some advice thrown my way which I liked, she said "leadership is to be FIRM, FAIR, CONSISTENT. Puppies, especially from strong working lines like in the pedigree of this litter, will challenge your patience, but you have to remain CALM in your dealings with the pup."
> 
> Bottom line, it's going to take work...I'm not sure if I want to title the dog...we shall see. For now, I'm enjoying the baby, and I'm sure I'll be enjoying the pup too when he comes.


Ours are only 15 months and they stop people dead in their tracks....what is funny....is they are big marshmallows. Their bark and looks alone are deterrent. We had zero trouble training, playing or working with the dogs....the adjustment came when they wanted to go EVERYWHERE we did. We had never been around dogs that liked and wanted to ride every where we did. 
We drive 15 hours from the keys back home...after driving that far....we were cleaning out the car, they jumped in the back seat...ready to go! If you can adjust to a dog wanting to be your shadow, you will be fine.... after reading soooo many traits about the shepherd, we had a good idea they would need and want to go with us. But we never dreamed it would be as much and often as they do. They get in the car 10-12 times a day between all the carlines and drop offs, grocery store runs, and errands. Good luck! We had no interest in titles, rally, agility or anything for that matter....but after watching them train and seeing the love they have for work...the girls have them signed up for a few things 
I think once you start working with the puppy, your desire to work with it will be the same as it's desire to work and please you.  
They have completely changed our view of GSD's....I am completely smitten with them and I was not a dog person! My husband was scared of them and did not want this breed...agreed to it because of the girls....NOW...he takes them to the office with him! And I can't stand the idea of leaving them behind. I swear they can read the family's minds and gives each family member exactly what they need.... 


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## Jaythethird

As with most controversial topics in society ie; drugs, religion, sex and now add to the list GSD's, I believe proper education would do far more of a greater good then instilling fear or telling someone no. Why not instead point them to great educational material? This forum that has helped so many. Books, sites, educational dvds. I don't know anyone here personally and I would find it quite pompous of myself to believe I am a better owner than anyone here and vice versa. Or anyone with the desire to own a gsd for that matter. I can think of many breeds that would make worse 'pets' than a gsd. I don't think any dog breed should be detained to a yard, or bred like rabbits. 

Oliver will never have a title or see a show ring. We won't go to weekly club meetings. Am I not what it takes to own the majestic beast? Am I an owner in which you would say 'DON'T GET A GSD!'? Anyone who would tell me that would see me fall over laughing at them


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## JackandMattie

Jaythethird said:


> As with most controversial topics in society ie; drugs, religion, sex and now add to the list GSD's, I believe proper education would do far more of a greater good then instilling fear or telling someone no. Why not instead point them to great educational material? This forum that has helped so many. Books, sites, educational dvds. I don't know anyone here personally and I would find it quite pompous of myself to believe I am a better owner than anyone here and vice versa. Or anyone with the desire to own a gsd for that matter. I can think of many breeds that would make worse 'pets' than a gsd. I don't think any dog breed should be detained to a yard, or bred like rabbits.
> 
> Oliver will never have a title or see a show ring. We won't go to weekly club meetings. Am I not what it takes to own the majestic beast? Am I an owner in which you would say 'DON'T GET A GSD!'? Anyone who would tell me that would see me fall over laughing at them


I hear you Jay. And I think you're probably an exceptional owner. Based on your posts. But they're not drugs, religion, or sex, are they? They are, rather, sentient beings. They don't all require a title, but they do all deserve an owner who would put that title on them if possible. GSDs are not toy dogs. 


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## JackandMattie

I'm just sayin. I might never put a title on my rescue, then again, I will never stop trying. After all, he is a German Shepherd Dog. He deserves, at least, his BH!


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## Chip18

Kayos and Havoc said:


> I got my first GSD as a pet for my son. Had no idea what I was doing or what I was getting.
> 
> 25 years later I still have them and compete with them. I am a great owner and not really bragging, just have learned through trial and error and education.


"Your" not the type of person that he's talking about. The folks that are willing to train and learn and grow and understand there dogs, are the ones that are going to keep adults,kids and other dogs safe while they are figuring things out.

Poorly raised/trained GSD's have the potential for doing a lot of damage to people and other dogs a poorly raised Beagle or Pug...not so much.


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## Chip18

GermanShepherdCrazy said:


> ! If no one was willing to take the time and effort in taking care of German Shepherds and training them and such then no one would have one and there would be shelters and rescues filled with them just like they already are with other breeds. I'm not saying that you're trashing the breed but it does sound like it.


No he's "Not trashing the breed" a GSD is not a good dog for the inexperienced or lazy! If your willing to learn and train..he's "Not" talking about you!


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## SunCzarina

I try to talk people out of it too. 'It's a 2 hour a day commitment, every day.' 'Yes you do see me walking every day. Even in January when it's no degrees. The big boy, he really likes to run next to my bike.'

There's one family on the corner of the next block that I wished I tried harder to talk them out of a shepherd. Bella comes from a petstore. She was born soft and spooky. She's going to bite someone some day. I've already had the police here asking me if I know who's dog she is - she charged the mailman and got maced...


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## doggiedad

this isn't GSD specific. this could apply to any breed.



DWP said:


> This is a rant: It is not directed to you, this is what I am screaming in my head as I try and steer the folks at work and other acquaintances that know me as “The German Shepherd Guy” away from my beloved breed. They are thinking about a dog for the family, a companion, a protector for the family etc etc. They don’t have dogs or if they do they are an afterthought beyond their puppyhood.
> DO NOT GET A GERMAN SHEPHERD!!!!!!!
> You will not train it! You will not exercise it! You will not care for it! You will come to me with stories of how at three months old, it is the smartest, most best behaved dog you have ever known. Then six months later when I ask you how it’s going I find out you had to “give it to your uncle in the country” or you “gave it away” because it went crazy at seven months old and you couldn’t control it.
> I have had this happen several times through the years and I will do everything I can to keep it from happening again. Every time I see that noble animal in a back yard next to its overturned food bowl staring out beyond the fence, its fur matted with dirt I cringe.
> Yeah, you wanted a German Shepherd.
> Sorry, but I feel better now.
> 
> Let me say I am not a breeder, competitor or veterinarian. I am simply an owner of German Shepherds and have been around the breed all my life. I dearly love dogs and German Shepherds especially. I have often lamented pet overpopulation and mistreatment, and have taken steps to assist with the problem. I use my ability to donate to shelters as a primary activity.
> As for casual acquaintances and co-workers I am known as the German Shepherd guy. I have a German Shepherd wall calendar and pictures on my computer desk top. Several times a year, I am approached by one of these folks as they express their desire to have a German Shepherd and their intention to obtain one. They inevitably ask for breeder recommendations. I always try and dissuade them from getting a German Shepherd. I do not trash the breed, but simply point out the time and effort required and encourage them to get something else.


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## Jaythethird

JackandMattie said:


> I hear you Jay. And I think you're probably an exceptional owner. Based on your posts. But they're not drugs, religion, or sex, are they? They are, rather, sentient beings. They don't all require a title, but they do all deserve an owner who would put that title on them if possible. GSDs are not toy dogs.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


There was a bit of sarcasm there. Because I feel as if the gsd is held higher for some reason. As people recommend retrievers... As pets? Instead? Drives of well bred retrievers? As pets? 

Which And don't get me wrong I love mine to pieces and I would do anything for him. I could go out and get titles. If I wanted to try. Just for my personal use its non essential. Although I do respect those that do strive for titles. I wouldn't use it as a prerequisite to successful dog ownership. 

I would rather offer materials that someone could research. And if they still think they want one after researching and hearing good stories and horror stories and in between. Then great! Welcome aboard. If they decide not to than that's great too!


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## Lobobear44

Sorry man going to get a Gs no matter what it takes. I'm up for any challenge.


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## boomer11

doggiedad said:


> this isn't GSD specific. this could apply to any breed.


Agreed. This applies to pretty much any dog above 50 pounds. A gsd isn't an idiot proof breed like a golden retriever but it's not like it takes a special skill or ungodly amount of dedication to raise one. 

If someone wanted a gsd I'd educate them and let them make their own decision. Telling someone they need to exercise 2 hours every day or else the dog is going to be unbearable to live with is a major exaggeration.


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## Harry and Lola

DWP - agree 100%, this breed is not for everyone and deserves only the best.

How many times have you seen people here upset that their 1yo GSD suddenly changes and they can no longer take him to the dog park! I know these people mean well and love the breed but people really need to be honest with themselves about what they want from a dog, some people would be better off with Golden Retrievers. 

Imo breeders have a huge part to play here, I'm sure many do, for the ones that don't - they really need to be particular about who they sell their pups to, they should ask to see where the pup will live, inside/outside, purpose of wanting a GSD and offer to re-home the pup if for some reason things don't work out. 

I'm sure there are great GSD rescue organisations in the US, here is Australia the German Shepherd Dog League do everything they can to rescue and re-home GSDs into suitable homes.


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## Oskar's Human

mcdanfam said:


> he was like a cat....full dictator, no affection.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 <-- cat bashing. I have three cats and we have welcomed into our lovely family an absolutely beautiful 8 week old GSD. One cat in particular, an 8 year old snowshoe siamese, has taken a particular fondness to him already. They play together non-stop. Sometimes looking over at them, I catch them both chewing on the ground for no reason at all, in sync. He even taught him how to "stalk the ball" instead of merely retrieving it lolz. My point is, cat's give a different reward. I am happy to enjoy the calmness of a soft belly rub mid-novel, while also enjoying a pup asleep with his fuzzy body on as much of my slippers as possible (in-between the sharking, accidents, arguments with food bowls and teeth in sweatpants as I meander through my mornings before work.)


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## llombardo

Harry and Lola said:


> DWP - agree 100%, this breed is not for everyone and deserves only the best.
> 
> How many times have you seen people here upset that their 1yo GSD suddenly changes and they can no longer take him to the dog park! I know these people mean well and love the breed but people really need to be honest with themselves about what they want from a dog, some people would be better off with Golden Retrievers.


And other breeds don't deserve only the best? My youngest golden would have been rehomed already if any one else owned him , he is a handful. The trainer says you can see him thinking. So again I stress it's not any breed in particular. Those same people that didn't do anything with the golden will end up getting rid of it just like if if was a GSD. I hate when people use goldens as examples, because they are highly energetic and extremely smart. I would never recommend for someone to get a golden if I thought a GSD wouldn't work. If someone doesn't have time they don't have time, get a goldfish, problem solved.


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## Chip18

vicky2200 said:


> I encourage people to get the breed. I think they are a pretty easy breed if you know about dogs.


Then you should keep an eye on the rescue centres to see how well your "easy breed" is working out for them!


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## Chip18

Jaythethird said:


> proper education would do far more of a greater good then instilling fear or telling someone no. Why not instead point them to great educational material? This forum that has helped so many. Books, sites, educational dvds. I don't know anyone here personally and I would find it quite pompous of myself to believe I am a better owner than anyone here and vice versa. Or anyone with the desire to own a gsd for that matter. I can think of many breeds that would make worse 'pets' than a gsd. I don't think any dog breed should be detained to a yard, or bred like rabbits.


Exactly and once again, that's not the people he's talking about. Pretty sure the people that should not get a GSD aren’t real big on education?


----------



## David Winners

llombardo said:


> And other breeds don't deserve only the best? My youngest golden would have been rehomed already if any one else owned him , he is a handful. The trainer says you can see him thinking. So again I stress it's not any breed in particular. Those same people that didn't do anything with the golden will end up getting rid of it just like if if was a GSD. I hate when people use goldens as examples, because they are highly energetic and extremely smart. I would never recommend for someone to get a golden if I thought a GSD wouldn't work. If someone doesn't have time they don't have time, get a goldfish, problem solved.


There are a lot of field bred dogs that would surprise the people that think, "they should just get a lab or golden."

One of the highest drive, hardest working, most reliable detection dogs I have ever worked is a lab. He put most of the GSDs in the kennels to shame. I used to take him on demos and lived with him for 3 weeks out of 4 for a whole summer and fall. He was a handful for sure. No aggression to speak of, but very high maintenance.










David Winners


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## Chip18

doggiedad said:


> this isn't GSD specific. this could apply to any breethatd.


A poorly trained and ill mannered Beagle is'nt much of a threat running wild on the streets.

Yeah it could be broadened most working dog's should not be owned by (insert noun) here and face it that's who we are talking about.

There have been stories of Boxers running wild! How the heck do you screw up a BOXER!!!!!

Any dog that can put someone in the hospital shouldn’t be owned by the lazy and incompetent and those are the people "not" on this forum or the internet!


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## David Winners

Lobobear44 said:


> Sorry man going to get a Gs no matter what it takes. I'm up for any challenge.


I've seen a lot of new handlers say that very same thing on their first day, and then either quit or ask for a less challenging dog after a few days. I appreciate your confidence, but stress that you need to go meet dogs at a club. Sometimes the idea and the reality of a strong dog are 2 different things.

David Winners


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## Chip18

David Winners said:


> There are a lot of field bred dogs that would surprise the people that think, "they should just get a lab or golden."
> 
> One of the highest drive, hardest working, most reliable detection dogs I have ever worked is a lab. He put most of the GSDs in the kennels to shame. I used to take him on demos and lived with him for 3 weeks out of 4 for a whole summer and fall. He was a handful for sure. No aggression to speak of, but very high maintenance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Winners


Well I'm certainly not gonna dis our countries men/women and K9 members but...I'm pretty sure Lab bite stats in this country are pretty low, if at all? 

A poorly raised and trained GSD is unfortunate for the dog and could be bad news for it's neighbours. I'm just not seeing a bad lab as much of a community threat?


----------



## Harry and Lola

llombardo said:


> And other breeds don't deserve only the best? My youngest golden would have been rehomed already if any one else owned him , he is a handful. The trainer says you can see him thinking. So again I stress it's not any breed in particular. Those same people that didn't do anything with the golden will end up getting rid of it just like if if was a GSD. I hate when people use goldens as examples, because they are highly energetic and extremely smart. I would never recommend for someone to get a golden if I thought a GSD wouldn't work. If someone doesn't have time they don't have time, get a goldfish, problem solved.


Of course other breeds deserve the best, all dogs are entitled to a loving, responsible carer that will feed them, love them, train them, exercise them, protect them and spend time with them.

I think golden retrievers are wonderful, highly intelligent super friendly dogs. When I used GR as an example it is because some people want a dog they can take to a dog park and one that will have no issues with aggression. Many GSDs do, however a lot do not make good dog park dogs, their play is too rough and escalates towards aggression. Some people get upset that their GSD won't be friends with other dogs at the dog park, imo these people would be better off with a GR. 

I did not and would never suggest someone get a GR if they don't want to walk, train, care or spend time with their dog - like you I would suggest getting a goldfish.


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## cethlen1621

I agree, explaining & educating them can make a huge difference. Helps to know what you'd be getting into. They need to know the high energy levels & the differences between show lines & working lines. Also a lot of people don't understand how much effort it takes to care for a dog much less a puppy. I'm not an expert but even I've explained some of these things to people I know & they're much more likely to look before they jump. We knew we weren't wanting to raise a puppy yet & we took our time to find the dog that fit our home, personalities & energy as well as got to test temperament. Apparently someone had adopted him for a few days without thinking about the fact his wife was very pregnant. He had a toy & the dog jumped for it & nipped the guy. The dog grew up in a puppy mill probably never having a toy. The guy returned him thinking the dog was dangerous. My boyfriend & I took him outside to the play area with the shelter attendant & with simple calm firm commands it was no time before he understood he needed wait & not jump for rewards. We've only had him a few months & he's doing quite well. The humans sometimes need to be trained first. Got to know how to be a good pack leader.  

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## Jaythethird

Chip18 said:


> Exactly and once again, that's not the people he's talking about. Pretty sure the people that should not get a GSD aren’t real big on education?


I guess I didn't read we were talking about uneducated individuals that work at the same place he holds employment. I would recommend the hiring manager get a better selection of employees. 

Thanks for sharing that David. It drives me crazy when people recommend retrievers for pets. And talk as if they are gonna be big balls of fur laying on a couch slobbering not requiring proper care. 

And yes labs bite. 

All dogs are capable of biting for the same reason a gsd are. I've been bitten by a lab. Which is a dog of my friends, that I have spent plenty of time with both at the home and in the field. He was resource guarding. All dogs are capable of biting out of fear, guarding resource, bad socializing, protection etc.... 

And in all honesty. Nobody knows a coworker like they think they do. Especially if they only know him by 'gsd guy' I've seen people become some of the most active outgoing individuals simply because they got a dog and had to. Similarly said the guy that's out at the bar every night who gets a girl pregnant and within 9 months becomes a father who provides for his family works a steady job and is a better overall person. It's not rocket science. It pretty basic human existence as history has shown.


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## David Winners

Chip18 said:


> Well I'm certainly not gonna dis our countries men/women and K9 members but...I'm pretty sure Lab bite stats in this country are pretty low, if at all?
> 
> A poorly raised and trained GSD is unfortunate for the dog and could be bad news for it's neighbours. I'm just not seeing a bad lab as much of a community threat?


Where in the thread does it state that the challenges of dealing with the GSD are strictly related to aggression? 

And Labs bite people too:





Dealing with a high maintenance dog is just as challenging regardless of breed. I was responding to a couple of posts that suggested field dogs as an easier option than a GSD, and I disagree.


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## Harry and Lola

All dogs bite. In NSW, 2012 statistics record 46,000 German Shepherds registered with 310 attacks and 75,000 Labradors registered with 120 attacks.

My own personal experience, Lola as a puppy was attacked by 2 GSDs at once and as a juvenile attacked by 2 different Labs on 2 different occasions, 1 white, the other black.


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## Jaythethird

David Winners said:


> Where in the thread does it state that the challenges of dealing with the GSD are strictly related to aggression?
> 
> And Labs bite people too:
> Cesar's Worst Bite - YouTube
> 
> Dealing with a high maintenance dog is just as challenging regardless of breed. I was responding to a couple of posts that suggested field dogs as an easier option than a GSD, and I disagree.


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## llombardo

David Winners said:


> There are a lot of field bred dogs that would surprise the people that think, "they should just get a lab or golden."
> 
> One of the highest drive, hardest working, most reliable detection dogs I have ever worked is a lab. He put most of the GSDs in the kennels to shame. I used to take him on demos and lived with him for 3 weeks out of 4 for a whole summer and fall. He was a handful for sure. No aggression to speak of, but very high maintenance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Winners


He is a beautiful dog.


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## llombardo

Interesting info on GSD bites....

German shepherds are herding dogs, bred for generations to guide and protect sheep. In modern society, they are among the dogs of choice for families with small children, because of their extremely strong protective instinct. They have three distinctively different kinds of bite: the guiding nip, which is gentle and does not break the skin; the grab-and-drag, to pull a puppy or lamb or child away from danger, which is as gentle as emergency circumstances allow; and the reactive bite, usually in defense of territory, a child, or someone else the dog is inclined to guard. The reactive bite usually comes only after many warning barks, growls, and other exhibitions intended to avert a conflict. When it does come, it is typically accompanied by a frontal leap for the wrist or throat.

Because German shepherds often use the guiding nip and the grab-and-drag with children, who sometimes misread the dogs’ intentions and pull away in panic, they are involved in biting incidents at almost twice the rate that their numbers alone would predict: approximately 28% of all bite cases, according to a recent five-year compilation of Minneapolis animal control data. Yet none of the Minneapolis bites by German shepherds involved a serious injury: hurting someone is almost never the dogs’ intent.

In the German shepherd mauling, killing, and maiming cases I have recorded, there have almost always been circumstances of duress: the dog was deranged from being kept alone on a chain for prolonged periods without human contract, was starving, was otherwise severely abused, was protecting puppies, or was part of a pack including other dangerous dogs. *None of the German shepherd attacks have involved predatory behavior on the part of an otherwise healthy dog.*


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## Alyalanna

llombardo said:


> And other breeds don't deserve only the best? My youngest golden would have been rehomed already if any one else owned him , he is a handful. The trainer says you can see him thinking. So again I stress it's not any breed in particular. Those same people that didn't do anything with the golden will end up getting rid of it just like if if was a GSD. I hate when people use goldens as examples, because they are highly energetic and extremely smart. I would never recommend for someone to get a golden if I thought a GSD wouldn't work. If someone doesn't have time they don't have time, get a goldfish, problem solved.


Thank you for this post.


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## shepherdmom

David Winners said:


> There are a lot of field bred dogs that would surprise the people that think, "they should just get a lab or golden."
> 
> One of the highest drive, hardest working, most reliable detection dogs I have ever worked is a lab. He put most of the GSDs in the kennels to shame. I used to take him on demos and lived with him for 3 weeks out of 4 for a whole summer and fall. He was a handful for sure. No aggression to speak of, but very high maintenance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Winners


Sorry to go off topic but is that a field lab? He looks like a slightly bigger of my girl. Several people have told me they think she is a field lab but I don't know how she would have wound up at the shelter in the middle of nowhere.


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## Lobobear44

David Winners said:


> I've seen a lot of new handlers say that very same thing on their first day, and then either quit or ask for a less challenging dog after a few days. I appreciate your confidence, but stress that you need to go meet dogs at a club. Sometimes the idea and the reality of a strong dog are 2 different things.
> 
> David Winners


I handle strong dogs piece of cake!


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## LoveEcho

David Winners said:


> There are a lot of field bred dogs that would surprise the people that think, "they should just get a lab or golden."
> 
> One of the highest drive, hardest working, most reliable detection dogs I have ever worked is a lab. He put most of the GSDs in the kennels to shame. I used to take him on demos and lived with him for 3 weeks out of 4 for a whole summer and fall. He was a handful for sure. No aggression to speak of, but very high maintenance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Winners


Yes! I train with a guy who raises hunting dogs and competes nationally with them. He has Chesapeake retrievers and field labs that are some of the most intense dogs I have ever met. They are a privilege to work with, but a world away from what most people expect when they hear "lab." 


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## Freestep

About half the people I see with dogs shouldn't have them. Any breed. And these are people who actually bother to bring their dogs to a professional groomer!

In the US, the "ideal" family unit consists of a man, woman, 2.3 kids and the family dog. Every family should have a dog, right? Imagine the Normal Rockwell paintings without dogs in them.

Well, it's a nice idea, but it often turns out to be a burden to the owners and it's unfair to the dogs. I have a client with two Shih-tuzs, littermates. They are outside dogs because the owner's husband doesn't believe in having dogs in the house. They are sweet, well-adjusted dogs (although one tends to bully the other). They wear choke chains that are too small and are always filthy. The owner feels guilty about it but it's just a bad situation all the way around--who do you choose, your husband or your dogs? I know what *I* would choose, but it's not always that simple...the husband did not mention his dislike of housedogs until after they were married. 

I see so many neglected pets Their owners do bring them in for grooming, but judging by the way they look when they come in... filthy, matted, eyes crusted over with boogies, ear infections... that I think that is about all they do with them. I've literally had animals come in such bad shape that I've sent them to the vet IMMEDIATELY. Had a cat that came in so infested with fleas, sick, and anemic that she almost died on me. I've had dogs come in with infected maggot-ridden wounds that the owners brought in because they "smelled bad".

Many people who own pets should not. Not even a goldfish. If they "love" animals, I advise that they get a birdfeeder.


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## Harmonica

Chip18 said:


> Well I'm certainly not gonna dis our countries men/women and K9 members but...I'm pretty sure Lab bite stats in this country are pretty low, if at all?
> 
> A poorly raised and trained GSD is unfortunate for the dog and could be bad news for it's neighbours. I'm just not seeing a bad lab as much of a community threat?


My aunt and uncle had a poorly raised lab. Thing was kept in a run out in the yard all the time with no socialization. Was extremely vicious towards people (growling, barking, lunging), and had to walk with a muzzle on. I would say if that thing got loose, it would bite someone. I'm pretty sure they said he has tried to bite children before.

My neighbors had a lab and a shepherd. The shepherd never barked, and was pretty friendly (though somewhat aloof). The lab was timid and would growl out of fear, and she never stopped barking. She also chased people on bikes trying to grab at their feet when she got loose. The shepherd never did anything like that. 

So yeah, I think a lab can be a threat. Labs, like shepherds, are popular and overbred and the wrong dog can fall in with the wrong owner.


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## David Winners

Lobobear44 said:


> I handle strong dogs piece of cake!


I am 100% sure that our definitions of strong dog are completely different. It has nothing to do with physical strength.

If you continue to think you know everything about dogs, you are going to meet a dog that will show you differently.


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## Blanketback

My neighbor wanted a dog to add to her family, and I'm so happy she picked a lovely lab, who fits right in - and also enjoys the extended family that often visits. That pup is 1.5 years old now, and all the kids running and screaming doesn't phase her one bit. She's not interested in chasing them on their dirt bikes, or going after their remote control cars. She'll get loose every now and then and bee-line it over here to play with my pup, but that's fine. She's great, and such a better fit for their lifestyle that a GSD would have been. She's a typical happy-go-lucky young lab, the kind you expect to meet, just a lovable wiggle butt.


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## David Winners

shepherdmom said:


> Sorry to go off topic but is that a field lab? He looks like a slightly bigger of my girl. Several people have told me they think she is a field lab but I don't know how she would have wound up at the shelter in the middle of nowhere.


Yes, Marshall comes from a breeder that competes in field work and produces detection dogs as well. He's not very large at all. I don't know his height, but he only weighs about 45 pounds in that picture. He's a pocket rocket


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## Chip18

Harmonica said:


> My aunt and uncle had a poorly raised lab. Thing was kept in a run out in the yard all the time with no socialization. Was extremely vicious towards people (growling, barking, lunging), and had to walk with a muzzle on. I would say if that thing got loose, it would bite someone. I'm pretty sure they said he has tried to bite children before.
> 
> My neighbors had a lab and a shepherd. The shepherd never barked, and was pretty friendly (though somewhat aloof). The lab was timid and would growl out of fear, and she never stopped barking. She also chased people on bikes trying to grab at their feet when she got loose. The shepherd never did anything like that.
> 
> So yeah, I think a lab can be a threat. Labs, like shepherds, are popular and overbred and the wrong dog can fall in with the wrong owner.


Yep and they couldn’t handle a lab! So a GSD in theses same folks hands?


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## Freestep

David Winners said:


> I am 100% sure that our definitions of strong dog are completely different. It has nothing to do with physical strength.
> 
> If you continue to think you know everything about dogs, you are going to meet a dog that will show you differently.


Yep, and I hope you don't get hurt.


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## Freestep

btw, I was bitten by a Lab when I was a kid. Actually he may have been a Lab mix, not sure. We had just moved into a new house and I was out in the front yard. Two black Labs came bolting from the house across the street, ran up to me and circled me, barking. One of them bit me on the butt. It did break the skin and left a nasty bruise.

We went to the owner's house and they acted shocked. The owner, a 40-something female tennis instructor, described him as "a total love". 

Turns out I was neither the first nor the last person to be bitten by the dog. He and the other dog would wander the neighborhood with the owner's elderly mother, no leashes of course. I had made friends with the dog by that point and he didn't bother me anymore, but pretty much terrorized the rest of the neighborhood.

Years later after that dog died, the lady got another dog, a Samoyed. She brought him in to be groomed by me, telling me he "loved" to be groomed. That dog was morbidly obese, couldn't stand up, and had so much poop stuck to his rear end, I had to shave all the hair off. That dog bit me, too. Again, the owner was shocked. 

Is this the thread where we're talking about people who shouldn't own dogs?


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## llombardo

I got chased by a collie, thankfully a nice man got the dog before he got me.


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## llombardo

Freestep said:


> btw, I was bitten by a Lab when I was a kid. Actually he may have been a Lab mix, not sure. We had just moved into a new house and I was out in the front yard. Two black Labs came bolting from the house across the street, ran up to me and circled me, barking. One of them bit me on the butt. It did break the skin and left a nasty bruise.
> 
> We went to the owner's house and they acted shocked. The owner, a 40-something female tennis instructor, described him as "a total love".
> 
> Turns out I was neither the first nor the last person to be bitten by the dog. He and the other dog would wander the neighborhood with the owner's elderly mother, no leashes of course. I had made friends with the dog by that point and he didn't bother me anymore, but pretty much terrorized the rest of the neighborhood.
> 
> Years later after that dog died, the lady got another dog, a Samoyed. She brought him in to be groomed by me, telling me he "loved" to be groomed. That dog was morbidly obese, couldn't stand up, and had so much poop stuck to his rear end, I had to shave all the hair off. That dog bit me, too. Again, the owner was shocked.
> 
> Is this the thread where we're talking about people who shouldn't own dogs?


I don't see how this is possible if they weren't GSD's


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## Chip18

David Winners said:


> Where in the thread does it state that the challenges of dealing with the GSD are strictly related to aggression?
> 
> And Labs bite people too:
> Cesar's Worst Bite - YouTube
> 
> Dealing with a high maintenance dog is just as challenging regardless of breed. I was responding to a couple of posts that suggested field dogs as an easier option than a GSD, and I disagree.


I understand your point and I saw that episode also and I think I was as shocked as Caesar. Clearly he underestimated that dog and had it been a GSD he most likely would not have made that mistake? 

Obviously folks jacked that dog up somehow so if people can't raise a lab....

People aren’t getting Labs to be man stoppers so that's my bad. Any thread like this, the first dog that gets mentioned as an "instead" of is going to get slammed!

Maybe the thread should have been narrowed to IPO potential dogs should not be raised by cretins or more broadly man stopper dogs, don't know that includes Chows so there's that. I apologize for dragging labs into this debate.


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## Chip18

Freestep said:


> Is this the thread where we're talking about people who shouldn't own dogs?


 Well it was suppose to be about irresponsible folks should not own especially a GSD . But clearly I screwed up and mentioned labs and now it's a free for all!

To the OP sorry I think I understood your point.:blush:


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## Freestep

Chip18 said:


> Well it was suppose to be about irresponsible folks should not own especially a GSD . But clearly I screwed up and mentioned labs and now it's a free for all!


Well, most people who shouldn't own a GSD shouldn't own a dog at all, even a Lab. I think that was the point being made.


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## misslesleedavis1

Freestep said:


> Well, most people who shouldn't own a GSD shouldn't own a dog at all, even a Lab. I think that was the point being made.


Every lab i see around here is really fat and highly vocal. I dont know if they are prone to weight issues but my goodness there are some tubsters around my area.


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## Chip18

Freestep said:


> Well, most people who shouldn't own a GSD shouldn't own a dog at all, even a Lab. I think that was the point being made.


...nope..I'm not gonna..."bite" as it were!


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## brembo

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Every lab i see around here is really fat and highly vocal. I dont know if they are prone to weight issues but my goodness there are some tubsters around my area.


Labs are notorious for their excessive appetite.


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## TAR HEEL MOM

Uh-huh. Mine was just in the kitchen begging for more to eat. I'm really tying to jerk some weight off her but I am vexed at every turn by my other family members who think her pitiful face is just so darn cute and give her food. She isn't obese by any means but certainly isn't svelte anymore


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## shepherdmom

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Every lab i see around here is really fat and highly vocal. I dont know if they are prone to weight issues but my goodness there are some tubsters around my area.



Not my lab.


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## Harry and Lola

Yes Labs are huge eaters, I too see way too many fat Labs, it is always really nice to see a Lab that is slim and trim, running alongside their owner - they look amazing.


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## misslesleedavis1

shepherdmom said:


> Not my lab.


Nice!!!!!

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## mickeyroyalty

Your message is very negative. I am on GSD number 4. I pay $2500 per dog, so it is not a casual purchase. I train every dog and they have been wonderful. I refer people to my breeder, who only breeds German lines, very healthy terrific dogs. A GSD is a big commitment, like having a child. They belong in the house with family, not in a yard with nothing. I will always have a GSD in my life.


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## Baillif

Lobobear44 said:


> I handle strong dogs piece of cake!


Psh I handle dogs everyday you wouldn't last 5 minutes alone in a room with


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## Jaythethird

Baillif said:


> Psh I handle dogs everyday you wouldn't last 5 minutes alone in a room with


Wish there was a cookie emoticon. I'd definitely get ya one. Self gloss is not fodder.


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## LoveEcho

mickeyroyalty said:


> Your message is very negative. I am on GSD number 4. I pay $2500 per dog, so it is not a casual purchase. I train every dog and they have been wonderful. I refer people to my breeder, who only breeds German lines, very healthy terrific dogs. A GSD is a big commitment, like having a child. They belong in the house with family, not in a yard with nothing. I will always have a GSD in my life.


I think you've missed the point. Read it again.


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## Baillif

Jaythethird said:


> Wish there was a cookie emoticon. I'd definitely get ya one. Self gloss is not fodder.


Its not even that they are particularly dangerous he'd just set them off


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## bibaxt

Chip18 said:


> A poorly trained and ill mannered Beagle is'nt much of a threat running wild on the streets.!


I have to say BULL on that one. Around the corner from me there lived a lovely beagle, who was evil. It always lunged at anyone passing ( lived across from a high school too) every day when I passed it made such a noise. One day it bite me. Hard. Dog bites get infected bad, but worse not long after it bit me it took a chunk of flesh out of a little boys leg. It was so bad he had to have surgery and the dog was put down. ANY dog can be a danger.




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## AryaStark

To the OP: I think that's true of any breed, not just German Shepherds. I've been volunteering with a local pet adoption since '09 and the stories I hear just break my heart. I will add that certain breeds would fit certain lifestyles better-my Aunt, for example, is better off sticking with a smaller dog like a Poodle, Shih-Tzu, etc because she isn't the kind of person who likes being outdoors and wouldn't be able to handle the high energy of a Shepherd. Heck, she can barely handle _Zoe's_ energy levels, and Zoe's a GSD mix, not a purebred. 

Perhaps it is just me, but I feel an emphasis on researching the breeds you want and making an honest evaluation as if they'd fit your lifestyle would go a long way, but I hate to say it, there's a lot of lazy people who don't even want to do that, which baffles me. Maybe it's because I'm a geek, but before we got Esme, I went to the library, took out every dog book I could find and read it in addition to internet research as well. Heck, all of my research on GSDs has definitely helped me with Zoe too.

I just think there's too many people owning pets out there who shouldn't, unless it's a pet rock, heh.


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## alexg

Too many people have kids while they shouldn't, too many people own guns while they shouldn't, too many people drive the cars while they shouldn't ... 

So?


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## blackshep

I grew up with Labs, and yes they are garbage cans with legs, they will ingest anything, I swear!! It's really not hard to keep them in good weight, it's unfortunate that you see so many fat Labs. I guess it's because the people who are drawn to them are maybe less active, which is a shame.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Labs, but my sister was badly attacked as a child and still has scarring on her hands from the bites.

I think what makes GSD's tougher though, as a rule, is they are a more suspicious type of dog, and tend to be more territorial. They can also be a bit miserable if you aren't challenging them with mental and physical exercise, where most Labs I've met have been ok to just go with the flow.

I agree though, with any dog, you have to go by the individual, and that if you're going to get one, you need to plan to do lots of training and provide adequate exercise, no matter what the breed is.

I do think Labs are more forgiving of handler mistakes as a rule.


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## Gwenhwyfair

I tend to agree with the OP and with BlackShep above.

Though I must admit I was chatting with a client yesterday whose mother is involved in Chihuahua rescue. She said her mother says the same thing about Chi's! Too many people adopt them but have no clue about the breed or how to train. They just want a cute 'purse accessory'. She had a point, there are a lot of people out there who cannot handle those little buggers even!


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## Freestep

Baillif said:


> Its not even that they are particularly dangerous he'd just set them off


 Exactly! Like the Doberman!



AryaStark said:


> Perhaps it is just me, but I feel an emphasis on researching the breeds you want and making an honest evaluation as if they'd fit your lifestyle would go a long way, but I hate to say it, there's a lot of lazy people who don't even want to do that, which baffles me.


 It's so true. Believe me, I see those people coming through my grooming salon every day. It baffles me too--but then again, I'm also a "dog snob", or a "dog geek" (that sounds better) that does a ton of research before I take on anything that eats, ESPECIALLY dogs. 



> I just think there's too many people owning pets out there who shouldn't, unless it's a pet rock, heh.


 Totally with you on that.



blackshep said:


> where most Labs I've met have been ok to just go with the flow....
> 
> 
> ...I do think Labs are more forgiving of handler mistakes as a rule.


 I think that people in the general populace just ASSUME this about Labs and so are more willing to put themselves into a dangerous situation with the dog, where a bite could occur. With a GSD at least their guard might be up a little more, but people tend to think they can just maul Labs and the dog will love it. And many do, but some don't!



Gwenhwyfair said:


> Though I must admit I was chatting with a client yesterday whose mother is involved in Chihuahua rescue. She said her mother says the same thing about Chi's! Too many people adopt them but have no clue about the breed or how to train. They just want a cute 'purse accessory'. She had a point, there are a lot of people out there who cannot handle those little buggers even!


 Seriously, Chihuahuas are NOT easy dogs. The majority of them have temperament and health problems, are shy and sensitive. You have to be a very sensitive, but firm, trainer, realize how emotionally delicate they are, and never put them into a fight-or-flight situation. The average person really isn't dog-savvy enough to successfully raise a Chi without issues. A lot of them become biters because their owners coddle them when they show signs of aggression. Because the dogs are small, no one perceives them as a real threat or liability, and so owners allow (or encourage) aggression and think it's "cute".

Before any Chi owners here slam me, I have known many wonderful Chis that I absolutely adore. Good breeding and proper training/socialization can make a huge difference. Even the ones who have issues are usually sweet and compliant once they trust you, but I've known a share of very aggressive Chis too!


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