# Leash pulling monster



## allexblake (Sep 14, 2010)

Ginger will not stop pulling on the leash on walks. She seems to do it worse when the kids are walking in front of her. Any ideas on what collar, harness she should be on? I have tried the "turn around" method with her but hasnt helped so far. She is 14 wks.:help:


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## LeftyGinger (Sep 2, 2010)

I always cause trouble don't I ??? 

Anyhow, I started my two on the gentle leader at that age and it did wonders for pulling. I've upgraded to the prong collar (not because of them being bad or anything) and love that too. There's other recommendations on here if you search for the topic with some great advice also....

Maybe one day your Ginger won't be as stubborn as me  I won't ever grow out of it.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I use the prong collar too but Ginger is way too young-she's just a baby! Try luring her with treats, happy bouncing around to keep her looking at you and not ahead


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## LeftyGinger (Sep 2, 2010)

oh I agree on the age thing... guess I should've mentioned that huh? My two are now 10 1/2 months old.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

At 14 weeks, you simply need to be more interesting than what is at the end of the leash. Use your voice, body language, treats, toys, whatever, but you should be the most exciting thing in the environment.....and all that without compulsion.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

She is young! Focus more on the behavior than the collar. Start by not setting her up to fail. Don't let your kids walk in front of her. 

The turn around method didn't work for me either. I went through 3 obedience classes and thought that I would NEVER get Bison to be alble to heel. What worked is constant reward and repetition of the position that I want him to be in on walks, formal heeling training, and especially just in the kitchen. I rewarded him for being in the right position and taught him the word for it.

Here is an activity to try...
Have a bag of treats with you. Just before she gets to the end of the leash, say "NO" and when she hits the end stop walking. It might take a few seconds for her to realize that you aren't moving. Wait for her to slack up on the leash, or even better, return to you. Say, "Yes!" and if she is in the right spot, "Good heel!" then give her a treat and start walking immediately. Repeat. Essentially, you are teaching her that if she is at the end of the leash, the walk stops, if she is in the position you want her to be in she gets treats and gets to keep walking.

To clarify, when I say "position" it doesn't have to be a formal heel position. Bison has two heel commands. "Fuss" is SchH style heeling with him exactly next to my leg with him looking at my face. "Heel" means he is within 2 foot of me on the left side and he can look or sniff or what ever he wants.

This won't happen overnight. You may have to keep this up for several weeks before it clicks with her, but you should see some improvement in a two or three sessions. If it doesn't work, try something else, but 14 weeks is way too young to use a training collar.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Ruthie said:


> Essentially, you are teaching her that if she is at the end of the leash, the walk stops, if she is in the position you want her to be in she gets treats and gets to keep walking.


This assumes that the dog cares whether or not the walk progresses forward. I'm still trying to figure out how to keep Shasta moving forward when she wants to pull to the side. When what she's interested in is to the side, stopping actually rewards the pulling behavior. I'm at a loss. Basically just waiting right not until she's old enough for a prong collar. She's getting so big and strong that it's nearly impossible for me to walk her.


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## mroutdoorsman (Oct 4, 2010)

Honestly she is acting like that due to excitement...

There are a few things that you could do to help. 
1: Speed up the pace and get her more focused on moving forward with you instead of trying to move forward more... aka speed walk.

2: Get her calm and submissive before walking her, before putting the leash on her and even before leaving the house.

3: Collars. You have a few good options at 14 weeks and I would say go with either a standard collar high on the neck. You could also go with a choke chain for corrections. Make sure you keep the lead short and correct by a short snap of the wrist upwards and then relax after 1-2 seconds. Lighten the corrections the more the dog begins to comply. As stated treats can help with heeling and paying attention to you but even at 14 weeks the primary goal is to just get the dog to properly walk as if he/she is in a pack with you. From 14 weeks ~26 weeks is the terrible 2's of a puppies life and they will fight you more for control and dominance during this point in time.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

paulag1955 said:


> This assumes that the dog cares whether or not the walk progresses forward. I'm still trying to figure out how to keep Shasta moving forward when she wants to pull to the side. When what she's interested in is to the side, stopping actually rewards the pulling behavior.


Try backing up instead of just stopping, whatever you need to do to get her even further away from where she wants to go. Over and over and over again until she's walking politely. If she wants to stop and sniff something off to the side, make her do something first and then give her permission by releasing her to check it out. I make my dogs sit and look at me, and then I say "okay, go sniff". I give them some extra leash and let them wander around a bit, and then say "let's go", and we begin walking again. 

And as Ruthie said - constantly reinforce correct position.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I used a nylon training collar- basically a choke collar but soft. And I agree, walk fast, encourage her to be next to you, make kissy noises, use treats, whatever you need to do to keep her attention back on you.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

paulag1955 said:


> This assumes that the dog cares whether or not the walk progresses forward. I'm still trying to figure out how to keep Shasta moving forward when she wants to pull to the side. When what she's interested in is to the side, stopping actually rewards the pulling behavior. I'm at a loss. Basically just waiting right not until she's old enough for a prong collar. She's getting so big and strong that it's nearly impossible for me to walk her.


Yes, I was making that assumption cause that is what she said. 

IMO, the moving off to the side is a different issue and I would address it differently. Have you tried working on "focus"? What happens when you call Shasta back to you? I would suspect from your description that she doesn't return. 

I think the same type of exercise that I described could work for you but instead of just working on the position, work on having Shasta focus on you instead of what is interesting to her. I agree with Cassidy's mom that it is great to let the dogs take a sniff once in a while, but it should be on a release, and you should contol when the walk resumes.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Try backing up instead of just stopping, whatever you need to do to get her even further away from where she wants to go. Over and over and over again until she's walking politely.


And would I just drag her then? It's not as though she would follow along nicely. This is the problem and I'm just not sure how to handle it. It seems like I've tried everything and nothing seems to be working all that well, unless I want to confine our walks to the kitchen.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Ruthie said:


> Yes, I was making that assumption cause that is what she said.
> 
> IMO, the moving off to the side is a different issue and I would address it differently. Have you tried working on "focus"? What happens when you call Shasta back to you? I would suspect from your description that she doesn't return.
> 
> I think the same type of exercise that I described could work for you but instead of just working on the position, work on having Shasta focus on you instead of what is interesting to her. I agree with Cassidy's mom that it is great to let the dogs take a sniff once in a while, but it should be on a release, and you should contol when the walk resumes.


Can you please clarify exactly what you mean when you say work on focus? I know this is the core issue, but have no idea how to work on it. Of course, she's perfect when there are no distractions but she seems to be pretty distractable. Examples of things that would distract her: a leaf blowing across our path, a dog barking two blocks over...

No, she wouldn't come back. I don't believe she even hears me at that point. Nor would she be interested in any treat I've tried, which is a variety of purchased treats, boiled chicken, cheddar cheese and freeze-dried liver.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

paulag1955 said:


> And would I just drag her then?


Yes! Gently though, no need to yank her off her feet, just stop walking forward and start backing up. I did this over and over and over with Halo, and it got to the point where she started coming back on her own because she knew it was going to happen anyway. I just decided what my criteria was (any part of her body from her head to about mid rib cage could be next to me, but as soon as her back leg was lined up with my leg, that was too far ahead), and I stuck to it. For a while we walked a lot without going much of anywhere, but it did eventually pay off. 

In the meantime, around the house in a low distraction area I worked on the "silky leash" technique described on this site (there's video too): http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/leash-walking/

The walking backwards technique she refers to as the Canine Cha-cha. I also did what could be described as the wedding march - a single step forward, stop and sit (lure if necessary). "Let's go", and another single step forward, stop and sit. Over and over again. If she realizes that you're only going to talk one step and stop there's no reason for her to keep pulling ahead or anywhere else. This can take some time though, and is best practiced around the house without a lot of distractions. Graduate to two steps, stop and sit, three steps, stop and sit, then vary the number of steps. Work up to an automatic sit when you stop if that's what you want her to do (stop cuing it each time, simply wait for it then mark and reward) and cue her to start walking with you again. I also did the marking and rewarding for spontaeous eye contact, both around the house and on walks, as she describes. 

These techniques WORK!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

paulag1955 said:


> Nor would she be interested in any treat I've tried, which is a variety of purchased treats, boiled chicken, cheddar cheese and freeze-dried liver.


Is she just too distracted out in the big wide world to care about treats, or is she not a good eater in general? If she's got a good appetite at home, use her kibble as training treats and set up a little time around meals to work on training. Get behaviors pretty solid before upping the distraction level - start by working in a different room in your house each day, try the garage if you've got one, and then the backyard, inside the house with the front door open, and then right outside your front door.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

paulag1955 said:


> Can you please clarify exactly what you mean when you say work on focus? I know this is the core issue, but have no idea how to work on it. Of course, she's perfect when there are no distractions but she seems to be pretty distractable. Examples of things that would distract her: a leaf blowing across our path, a dog barking two blocks over...
> 
> No, she wouldn't come back. I don't believe she even hears me at that point. Nor would she be interested in any treat I've tried, which is a variety of purchased treats, boiled chicken, cheddar cheese and freeze-dried liver.


Sure! Pick a word that will mean pay attention to me. If you are doing any formal training, it should be a different word than the one you use for "look me directly in the eye". Some people use the dog's name. "Look" and "watch" are also common. For sake of this post, let's use "watch".

When you train something you always want to start without distractions then slowly build up the distraction. When you are inside working on your "sit" and "down" and stuff like that, start by holding a treat in front of her nose then bring it up to yours. When she makes eye contact, say "yes" (or mark with a clicker if you use that) and give her the treat. When you have her reliably watching the treat, you can stop putting it at her nose first. You will probably need to do this for several days. When she is getting that down, then you can put just one finger to your nose and say "watch" then treat her with your other hand. You don't want her to misuderstand that you are asking her to look at the treat. For the informal pay attention command, I still use the hand signal of finger to nose. 

When she is doing this reliably, then you can start adding in distractions and try it on walks. Don't set her up to fail by asking her to do it in a distracting setting too soon. Eventually you can carry treats on your walk and when you see the FIRST sign that she is about to get distracted (don't wait until she is already fixated on the smell or leaf...), tell her "watch" while you keep walking. Reward immediately when she does it. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

Like any training method, it may or may not work for your dog, but it is at least a place to start.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Is she just too distracted out in the big wide world to care about treats, or is she not a good eater in general? If she's got a good appetite at home, use her kibble as training treats and set up a little time around meals to work on training. Get behaviors pretty solid before upping the distraction level - start by working in a different room in your house each day, try the garage if you've got one, and then the backyard, inside the house with the front door open, and then right outside your front door.


Yes, she's just distracted...she has a a hearty appetite and she's not picky! But when she gets distracted, she will refuse treats, even if I know she's hungry. OR occasionally she grabs them out of my hand so hard that she hurts me. I guess I just need to go back the basics on this.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

your pup is 14 weeks old. don't depend on a collar
or a harness for the pulling. train, train, train.
don't wait untill it's time to go for a walk to train.
you can train in the house, the yard, etc. train
in sessions. short sessions (5 to 10 minutes).
have many sessions. train, train, train and good luck.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

mroutdoorsman said:


> Honestly she is acting like that due to excitement...
> 
> There are a few things that you could do to help.
> 1: Speed up the pace and get her more focused on moving forward with you instead of trying to move forward more... aka speed walk.
> ...


Please do not do this at this stage of the game. No 14 week old puppy needs leash pops with a choke chain. I would go with a martingale, which is nylon and will keep the dog from slipping a flat collar. 

A fourteen week old puppy does not need speedwalks to exercise them. In fact, slow down and smell the flowers with your pup. Let him check out everything in a nice easy laid back manner. 

If he starts pulling, plant your feet and simply do not allow yourself to be pulled. When he slackens the leash start going again. 

Perfect heel position, and all that, there is plenty of time for that down the line. Right now he is a puppy, a baby puppy, everything he is learning, house training - including what not to chew on, is enough for serious training. 

Take him to puppy classes, use lots of treats and praise. Doing this right, you should never require a correction collar down the line. 

Good luck.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i think everyone so far has given you some really good advice. I honestly have nothing new for you. The turn around method worked for me. Shasta was leashed trained a week after i had her so i cant say much. I did have to use different methods for training my Zena but Zena was also about 4 years old when i adopted her.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when i was teaching my dog to heel i held the leash
in my right hand with the leash
going across my body (to the left). my left
hand held the leash over the top
near the dogs neck. this prevented him
from being able to pull, jump or lunge.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

I agree with Doggiedad, train train train. But do it with no expectations, take it at her own speed and be patient. My pup pulled and pulled and we thought she would never come around but she eventually learned that she couldn't control the pace or direction. Your dog is young and it will take TIME. As I said, we thought our dog was hopeless but by 6 months she was walking off leash totally trustworthy and on leash with very little pulling. With pups, patience and persistence is the only way.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

PaddyD said:


> I agree with Doggiedad, train train train. But do it with no expectations, take it at her own speed and be patient. My pup pulled and pulled and we thought she would never come around but she eventually learned that she couldn't control the pace or direction. Your dog is young and it will take TIME. As I said, we thought our dog was hopeless but by 6 months she was walking off leash totally trustworthy and on leash with very little pulling. *With pups, patience and persistence is the only way*.


Puppy classes would be a huge help. 

I know for me if I can OFF leash exercise my pup during the day, then if I do have to have her on the leash later it's a much calmer and more compliant puppy. A puppy that is bouncing off the wall with energy, happiness and excitement tends to have no attention span and not care what I do. Going backwards for them can be just as much fun as forward.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Ruthie said:


> When you train something you always want to start without distractions then slowly build up the distraction. When you are inside working on your "sit" and "down" and stuff like that, start by holding a treat in front of her nose then bring it up to yours. When she makes eye contact, say "yes" (or mark with a clicker if you use that) and give her the treat. When you have her reliably watching the treat, you can stop putting it at her nose first. You will probably need to do this for several days. When she is getting that down, then you can put just one finger to your nose and say "watch" then treat her with your other hand. You don't want her to misuderstand that you are asking her to look at the treat. For the informal pay attention command, I still use the hand signal of finger to nose.


Back to basics for us, I guess. My challenge will be finding distractions outdoors that aren't too distracting.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

paulag1955 said:


> Back to basics for us, I guess. My challenge will be finding distractions outdoors that aren't too distracting.


Isn't THAT the truth! Though it will probably be a little easier when she has a really good foundation.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Ruthie said:


> Isn't THAT the truth! Though it will probably be a little easier when she has a really good foundation.


Her focus _is_ very good in the house.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

paulag1955 said:


> Her focus _is_ very good in the house.


Have you tried adding in distractions in the house?


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Ruthie said:


> Have you tried adding in distractions in the house?


We've practiced in other rooms and with the radio on. We have a pretty quiet house. It's just Shasta and me here for a large part of the day.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I agree with Amy, it will be easier to work with her around distractions after you've got a good foundation in a low distraction area. As you said - back to the basics. Silky Leash is designed to be done indoors, in a small room. Start there. Work on teaching her to relieve leash pressure rather than pulling into it. 

With Dena, she was PERFECT at home, but I totally lost her when we tried going for a walk. I completely ceased to exist for her. That's when our trainer suggested the interim steps of inside the front door with the door open, and then once that was solid, just outside the door. It took awhile before I was able to actually walk her up and down the street with decent focus and polite leash skills, but it would have taken a lot longer if I hadn't built that foundation first. 

That was 6 years ago, and MY skills are so much better now, which made it so much easier when I started working with Halo. I was super committed to teaching her to walk nicely on leash and I was armed with some great techniques that were very effective.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

paulag1955 said:


> We've practiced in other rooms and with the radio on. We have a pretty quiet house. It's just Shasta and me here for a large part of the day.


I have DH participate by walking past him or other distracting things. 

What about a less distracting part of "outside". For example, our back yard is playtime central, but the front yard is not. I often practice obedience in the front yard for "in between" distraction training. Not as quiet as the house and not as distracting as class or club.

Have you tried taking the treats with you on the walk and asking for focus? If so, how did she react? Have you done any classes with her? Bison gained a LOT of discipline just from going to class every week with tons of other dogs.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I agree with Amy, it will be easier to work with her around distractions after you've got a good foundation in a low distraction area. As you said - back to the basics. Silky Leash is designed to be done indoors, in a small room. Start there. Work on teaching her to relieve leash pressure rather than pulling into it.
> 
> With Dena, she was PERFECT at home, but I totally lost her when we tried going for a walk. I completely ceased to exist for her. That's when our trainer suggested the interim steps of inside the front door with the door open, and then once that was solid, just outside the door. It took awhile before I was able to actually walk her up and down the street with decent focus and polite leash skills, but it would have taken a lot longer if I hadn't built that foundation first.
> 
> That was 6 years ago, and MY skills are so much better now, which made it so much easier when I started working with Halo. I was super committed to teaching her to walk nicely on leash and I was armed with some great techniques that were very effective.


Thanks so much for sticking with me on this. It's so frustrating because I've been trying to work on this since Shasta was tiny. I read through the silky leash info quickly, but haven't had a chance to really study it. Coincidentally, the Dogsports Northwest mentioned on that site holds classes practically in my back yard. If my husband drops the schutzhund thing, I want to do agility so that would be super handy.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Ruthie said:


> I have DH participate by walking past him or other distracting things.
> 
> What about a less distracting part of "outside". For example, our back yard is playtime central, but the front yard is not. I often practice obedience in the front yard for "in between" distraction training. Not as quiet as the house and not as distracting as class or club.
> 
> Have you tried taking the treats with you on the walk and asking for focus? If so, how did she react? Have you done any classes with her? Bison gained a LOT of discipline just from going to class every week with tons of other dogs.


Yes, the treats go with us on all the walks but once she's distracted they're of no particular value in regaining her attention. Our yard is pretty exciting, but you all have given me the idea of working on our deck, which is a second story deck. We have gone to classes and after a few initial minutes of excitement, she settles down and is fine. Interestingly, I find she focuses on us better when she's off leash at the dog park. What's up with that?


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

paulag1955 said:


> Yes, the treats go with us on all the walks but once she's distracted they're of no particular value in regaining her attention. Our yard is pretty exciting, but you all have given me the idea of working on our deck, which is a second story deck. We have gone to classes and after a few initial minutes of excitement, she settles down and is fine. Interestingly, I find she focuses on us better when she's off leash at the dog park. What's up with that?


Have you tried asking for attention BEFORE she gets too focused? Watch her close, there is probably a cue that she is getting ready to take off. Ears move forward, head turns, tail flicks... Try to catch her at that point.

Otherwise it is just practice and more practice. I am trying to encourage you with things to try because I just went through this with Bison this year and I thought that I would NEVER get him to walk nice. 

You will get there. Just keep trying. Something will click.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Ruthie said:


> Have you tried asking for attention BEFORE she gets too focused? Watch her close, there is probably a cue that she is getting ready to take off. Ears move forward, head turns, tail flicks... Try to catch her at that point.
> 
> Otherwise it is just practice and more practice. I am trying to encourage you with things to try because I just went through this with Bison this year and I thought that I would NEVER get him to walk nice.
> 
> You will get there. Just keep trying. Something will click.


Thank you and I appreciate it so much! I'm trying to think if I've ever noticed any cues but I'm not coming up with anything. I'll pay extra special attention the next time I have her outside. BUT I think it's going to be a while before we go back out on the street again.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Paula, if you'd like a little inspiration, here's a video my sister did of me and Halo at the lake where I take her for training walks: 




It's short, but you can see how nicely she walks with me. This took LOTS of patience, time, and practice, but we get compliments all the time now, and people often ask me how I taught her to do it. 

I'll tell you a little secret: I've NEVER had a dog that walked anywhere near this good on leash before! Not even close. And LLW and heeling were without a doubt my worst skills. There are a few things that I'm pretty confident in my ability to train, but walking on leash has never been one of them. But I was bound and determined to teach Halo, and as you can see - it's possible if you set your mind to it.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I should also mention that the first time I took her there I parked on the street outside the entrance and it took at least 20 minutes to get her the half block from the car into the park. Back and forth and back and forth, stop if she pulls, turn around and go the other direction, back up and start over....... :hammer:


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I should also mention that the first time I took her there I parked on the street outside the entrance and it took at least 20 minutes to get her the half block from the car into the park. Back and forth and back and forth, stop if she pulls, turn around and go the other direction, back up and start over....... :hammer:


The first thing I noticed is that Halo's fluffy butt looks just like Shasta's!

Thanks for the video, we're headed out to the deck right now for some focus work.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

Reviving an old thread because Shasta describes Amaretto exactly! Distracted by blowing leaf...great focus when she's not distracted...but once gone, not even hot dogs can call her back. 

Paula, when did Shasta get better?


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