# Looking for good temperament and hips in New England



## Sheppyluv (Aug 26, 2017)

I've looked at a number of kennels and they all seem geared toward working dogs with high drive. I'm looking for a shepherd like the ones I grew up with who were intelligent, stable, got along with other dogs, kids and cats...and didn't run on their hocks. Whatever happened to straight backs and good hips? My last two GSD both had/have some dysplasia. I've even started looking into Shilohs as they seem to be more bred for temperament and good hips. All of my dogs have been excellent watchdogs but weren't aggressive unless there was a reason to be. I want a dog smart enough to be able to differentiate between a guest and a threat.

Does anyone breed shepherds like this any more? I'd like a pup but I'm starting to think I should just continue to rescue because so many of these dogs from backyard breeders seem to have better temperament than the high priced dogs.


----------



## NerdicEclipse (Feb 20, 2017)

As far as straight backs go, sure, you can find them. Minka has a pretty straight back. It tends to be the show lines that have the slope to them from what I've seen, and the working lines are more straight/solid dogs. So if you want that straighter back, the working line seems to be the way to go. But then you also get the higher drive. With Minka the drive is easy to turn off. I just give her appropriate outlets and factor in an "on/off" switch as she was being raised and trained. In the house and yard she's very calm and gentle, very quiet. If I get her going or start bitework or more active play with her she turns on and is appropriately aggressive and "functional". Good hips, her family had great hips as well. Very healthy and very intelligent. Even when she's calm and quiet in the house, she'll bark to alert but immediately settles down when I tell her to.

I have no idea what it's like with a show line GSD or how different their drive is though. But with a working line dog you can absolutely have a solid, smart dog with a very good temperament. It all depends on the work you do with them and whether you make sure you give them a proper outlet for their drive or not. Fail to give them a proper outlet and they are **** to live with. That's not a fault in their temperament, that just means the owner didn't do their research before picking a dog and is not giving the dog anywhere near what it needs to be balanced and happy. They're bred to work and they NEED to work. They cannot be couch potatoes or live in a home that doesn't give them appropriate structured play and outlets for their drive.

Rescues are amazing. Plenty of good dogs there that need good homes. But if you want a GSD I'd honestly look for reputable breeders. Tell them what type of dog you're looking for and what kind of home you have. They'll be able to help you find a pup or a breeder that is best suited to you. Backyard breeders are where the danger is for HD and other issues including temperament. They generally don't have solid pedigrees and can't be traced very far if at all so you tend to have absolutely no idea what you're getting or what issues health-wise the family has unless you're lucky and find a rare BYB that has their stuff in order.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

don't fool your self about Shiloh's - they are notorious for bad hips....they are a mix breed, the first of the designer breeds....nothing more or less

there are always pups out of good working litters who are very compatible with a companion home.....a good litter should be balanced in drives and as any puppy, able to settle when properly exercised....my 5 month old high drive working pup snuggles down on the couch in the evenings just fine - as do her littermates (see KenKleanAir aka Tom's posts for a littermate)...she goes to work with me 3 or 4 times a week and some days she has a playmate and some not...but she will settle under the desk or sprawl across the floor....and she is very high drive and high energy...but she does have balance.


Lee


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

This is some of the reason I got a white dog this time. I didn't want as much as a working line but don't like some of the extreme looking showlines. A lot of the whites are pretty "normal" looking to me...not seeing the extreme an Gulati on or roach backs

My white is pretty much exactly what I hoped he would be. Lower key than my working lines, easier to live with, great watch dog. But I think the breeder has a wait list for puppies.


----------



## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

The breed you need might not be the breed you want.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I walked away from rescue dogs and only have "high priced dogs" because of the poor temperaments I was finding in the rescue dogs.

I also had two Shilohs, I certainly would not recommend them for their temperaments although they were very nice looking dogs.


----------



## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Sheppyluv said:


> I've looked at a number of kennels and they all seem geared toward working dogs with high drive. I'm looking for a shepherd like the ones I grew up with who were intelligent, stable, got along with other dogs, kids and cats...and didn't run on their hocks. Whatever happened to straight backs and good hips? My last two GSD both had/have some dysplasia. I've even started looking into Shilohs as they seem to be more bred for temperament and good hips. All of my dogs have been excellent watchdogs but weren't aggressive unless there was a reason to be. I want a dog smart enough to be able to differentiate between a guest and a threat.
> 
> Does anyone breed shepherds like this any more? I'd like a pup but I'm starting to think I should just continue to rescue because so many of these dogs from backyard breeders seem to have better temperament than the high priced dogs.


You might be looking at the wrong high priced dogs. I'm not knocking breed rescue - if you find a really good one to work with, a careful one, that can work out really well. But if you can't find a good temperament among the dogs put out by breeders - and I am couching that to say I mean "objectively good" and "what you personally want" could be different things - you're looking at the wrong breeders.


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Well OP, you sure opened up a can of worms and ruffled some feathers with your closing paragraph - LOL!

Obviously, people that either breed or own well-bred high drive dogs are going to be defensive, they love their dogs. But to some extent I agree that the temperament of the average GSD does seem to have changed during my lifetime. I remember numerous GSDs from my childhood that were just the perfect all-around dogs. Family dogs, that did not necessarily get - or require - a great deal of exercise or work or training, and yet they were very stable, well adjusted watch dogs and companions. One of my best friends growing up had a working K9 dog in their home, his father was a police officer, and even that dog, though he did have more edge than the average family dog, seemed more stable to me than most of the higher drive wgwl dogs I've been around recently. By stable I mean more cerebral, less driven by, I'm guessing, their prey drive instinct. The fact that having an off-switch is an often mentioned trait among WL GDSs now, is rather telling in this regard. 

Of course health issues/risks being what they are with these dogs, BYB is not the way to go. Even though working with a reputable breeder is no guarantee that a given dog will be healthy and live a long life, it's a whole lot more certain than your neighborhood BYB. Maybe what the OP is looking for is more of a show line dog these days, as the trend there seems to be edging toward straighter backed dogs there as well for health reasons.

I'm curious to hear from breeders on this. Do you see a change in WL GSD temperaments versus what they were 40 years ago? Is the average WL dog more drivey now than they were before? Or is it perhaps that only my perspective has changed over that time?


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Had the breed split yet 40 years ago?


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Had the breed split yet 40 years ago?


There has always been a split between the show faction and the working faction (I am talking the German dogs, not the Ambred lines), but not as much as there is now. I don't have 40 years in the breed. I have owned them for a bit under 33 years and spent time around them before that (along with working with a couple of other breeds). I met some nerve bags way back and I met some very easy going laid back dogs. I met some very drivey pushy working dogs that would definitely be on the same caliber as some I see today, including the sire of my first GSD, and some not as drivey. Like now, it depends a lot on the goals of the breeder. There are still some breeders out there that breed a good balanced utilitarian dog that is neither a soft couch potato social butterfly nor a mali in GSD clothing. They still breed for a dog that can work when needed, but also will settle in the home and be great with the kids. Just a matter of finding those breeders. 

My dogs now maybe have a hair more drive to work than my first GSD, but, at the time, I was looking for a good obedience dog, not a working dog. My goals for what I want to work has changed. I have always owned working lines though my first girl was a mix of very old show and work so of the time when the lines were crossed. She was also Canto Wienerau free, the dog that probably caused the most change in type despite dying at 4.


----------



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Sheppyluv said:


> I've looked at a number of kennels and they all seem geared toward working dogs with high drive. I'm looking for a shepherd like the ones I grew up with who were intelligent, stable, got along with other dogs, kids and cats...and didn't run on their hocks. Whatever happened to straight backs and good hips? My last two GSD both had/have some dysplasia. I've even started looking into Shilohs as they seem to be more bred for temperament and good hips. All of my dogs have been excellent watchdogs but weren't aggressive unless there was a reason to be. I want a dog smart enough to be able to differentiate between a guest and a threat.
> 
> Does anyone breed shepherds like this any more? I'd like a pup but I'm starting to think I should just continue to rescue because so many of these dogs from backyard breeders seem to have better temperament than the high priced dogs.


I can tell you from experience that the temperament of Shilohs has gone to crap! My Shiloh, from the SSDCA breed founder kennel went into a 'fear period' at 9 months, and at 2 years old, still couldn't pass a temperament test! I adopted her at 8 weeks old, and she was scared to death of men and children, even though she had never had a bad experience with either one. At the annual Shiloh homecoming, a small puppy came running towards her, and she was so frightened that she jerked the leash out of my hand!

I paid $2,000 for her, and wound up rehoming her for nothing to a pet home. WORST decision I ever made regarding a dog. :frown2: Her mom's litter sister was a fantastic dog, though, which is why I bought her in the first place.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

lhczth said:


> There are still some breeders out there that breed a good balanced utilitarian dog that is neither a soft couch potato social butterfly nor a mali in GSD clothing. They still breed for a dog that can work when needed, but also will settle in the home and be great with the kids. Just a matter of finding those breeders.



^^^ This!


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

mycobraracr said:


> ^^^ This!


There are such breeders that still breed for utility, but unfortunately these dogs won't do well in show or sport. But they are out there!


----------



## Raisedbyshepherds (Mar 30, 2017)

Lol this one is dear to my heart. 
OP the type of dogs you are looking for are out there......they're just hard to find...especially if you dont like to buy sight unseen. 
I went through the same search last year, looking for the type of all purpose dogs my family had until I moved out on my own. Went with another breed for a awhile then decided to come back to the gsd. Boy things had changed! It seemed like every gsd breeder almost had different breeds. I guess for all the specialty venues and dog sports. I just wanted a dog that could go anywhere and everywhere with me, live peacefully in my home, get along with my other critters, and help me protect my home and few farm animals. Didnt want a sport dog, or super hard protection dog for now. 
I wanted that good old utilitarian good at everything not the best at anything dog. 
Very very difficult search. But they are still out there! 
Lol I know I ruffled some feathers on here too I was so put out by what my puppy search what turning up one of my first posts on here was basically a long rant about how I didnt like any of the german shepherds we were seeing. 
Dont give up, dont get discouraged, and for my two cents a dog with working lines in its background is going to probably be more what youre looking for.....


----------



## Vonwhitehall (Dec 4, 2016)

Agree. I have the classic german shepherd type of dog and my upcoming litter is the same. I want a rock solid temperament, excellent health, and strong working ability. I believe in following the standard and that the GSD should be moderate and not have extremes either in angulation, drive, or temperament. GSDs are versatile, smart, athletic, and healthy dogs if bred correctly. But, I only breed when I am trying to produce my next competition/family dog and always to maintain the highest standards to improve the breed. The dogs you seek are out there....keep looking!!!!!


----------

