# Question regarding genetics of working line vs show line



## dbussan00 (Sep 23, 2018)

HI All,

My first question is does anyone out there have examples of there working line shepherd not being able to get there ears up? I always hear about show lines possibly having a harder time to get there ears to stand up, but the scientist in me tells me it has to happen to working lines as well. I don't know if its just not discussed as much as far as the working line goes or what. 

Next question is, is the working line and show line two different breeds now? There are many examples in the animal world of the same animal breaking of from the primary line and becoming there own separate species (speciation). If not maybe its only a matter of time?

Any thoughts or input is much appreciated. 

Thanks


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Helmut Raiser of RSV2000 used to have an article on his site that was a scientific study that indicated the two lines were essentially separate breeds.


----------



## Hatch (Jul 16, 2015)

This may be the article you mentioned: http://www.vtgsd.com/publicgsdfiles/german-shepherd-lines-are-genetically-different.pdf



Chip Blasiole said:


> Helmut Raiser of RSV2000 used to have an article on his site that was a scientific study that indicated the two lines were essentially separate breeds.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

That is the article. Did you just Google it to find it? It was removed from the RSV2000 site and I couldn't find it.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes. Soft ears happen in all lines. It's dependent on strength of cartilage and size of ear. I've seen both issues cause the ear to not stand all the way. It's probably not discussed in working line as much because working line people won't toss the dog out of the gene pool for it if the dog has all the other qualities.

No, they are not different breeds but there are distinct genetic differences.


----------



## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

There is only one breed of German Shepherds, but there are several different types/lines. - American, West German Show Lines, West German Working Lines, Czech Lines, and DDR. 

As for the ears, weak ears are normally genetic, unless there was an injury to the ear causing the issue. Working line breeders tend to breed to the standard more closely especially in the working aspect , while show lines are bred for the more extreme angulations. Show lines will just post the ears to get them to stand, so in fact passing on the weak ears.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

To me, the difference between the Cairn Terrier and the Norwich Terrier suggests GSD show and working lines are separate breeds.. Those terrier breeds are separate breeds that look very much alike. Same size, same coat type, same ears. The only difference is coat color and subtle difference in leg size. There are much more differences between GSD show and working lines in terms of structure, coat color and temperament.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

English Springers used to be born in the same litters as Cocker Spaniels. They were the bigger dogs and would later be called Springer Spaniels, the mid sized sporting dogs.

Cairns were once in the same litters as Scotties and Westies.


----------



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

I thought about this a lot with my 7/8 ddr pup. His ears were up down up down. Years ago the rule of thumb was "crazy glue lazy ears @ 4 months." Frankly I don't care about ears so I left my pup's go natural. They didn't finally stand right until like 5 months. At 6 months he's loosing molars? Seems late to me? "slow to mature?"


----------



## dbussan00 (Sep 23, 2018)

I was thinking about this question regarding the show line becoming a different breed. If you go to the paper that was mentioned above and see figure 1, statistically they are different breeds now, there is no overlap. You also do see a distinct grouping of the working line vs the mixed line as well. Just a thought, dogs do evolve into different breeds this is not unheard, I know more studies need to be conducted before people would accept this, but if these studies prove the same thing why not declare a different breed, just like todays dogs evolved from dogs in our past, we are seeing the german shepherd become a different breed before our very eyes.


----------

