# Describe the ideal dog for IPO



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Ideal in as far as what will put maximum points on the board with proper training. Don't read too much into it. Just curious to hear peoples description of the ideal raw material that ***they*** would have if such things where in their absolute control. Size, drives, temperament, whatever you want, etc etc.


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

The one that fits perfect with that handler. Everyone like different traits & tendancies in dogs they like to train...What I like in my dog, someone else might think is too much in their dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> what will put maximum points on the board with proper training


Doesn't that depend on the judge and what the judge likes to see?


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

lol I meant the dog that is perfect for you the individual. Not the perfect dog across the board. Yes judging may vary, but theoretically it shouldn't. So lets assume "the average judge"


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Depends on the handler, support team, dog and at what point you are in learning and training. How much time you have to train, etc.

What is the perfect dog today might not be the perfect dog tomorrow.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

My favourite things for IPO are clear headedness, ability to cap drive, balanced drives with a strong fight/defense combo, medium to large sized (70-80lbs for a male), strong desire to work with the handler/please the handler, enthusiasm in the work.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would want power and enthusiasm, in all phases. And balance...I'd rather have a thinking dog than one that just goes thru the motions out of habit.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> I would want power and enthusiasm, in all phases. And balance...I'd rather have a thinking dog than one that just goes thru the motions out of habit.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

That's more along the lines of what I was asking for lol. Thanks


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I think a lot of people will say they want the same things, power, grips, willingness, drive, etc. Along with these things I tend to want high fight drive, food drive, hunt drive in a smaller athletic body. My ideal dog also does everything with joy. They will tend to have a bit of that "wow" factor.  I also must feel in balance with a dog. Not sure I can put what I mean by that into words. Then the rest is up to me as a trainer to channel their drives and ability into the performance I want.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

lhczth said:


> I think a lot of people will say they want the same things, power, grips, willingness, drive, etc. Along with these things I tend to want high fight drive, food drive, hunt drive in a smaller athletic body. My ideal dog also does everything with joy. They will tend to have a bit of that "wow" factor.  I also must feel in balance with a dog. Not sure I can put what I mean by that into words. Then the rest is up to me as a trainer to channel their drives and ability into the performance I want.


Yeah there are certain things no one would differ on, like "loves to work"... Who wants a dog that despises to? I'm more interested in the preference ones... Sharpness, handler soft/hard, size, thresholds, aloofness, etc


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I didn't say "loves to work". 

A lot of those terms are very open for interpretation especially ones like sharpness and thresholds.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Male, 70-85lbs, short stock, any color but I like good pigment and dark/rich colors, I think they look more menacing. For temperament I like medium to high drive. I don't personally like the "over the top" dogs. I like a dog that is naturally clear-headed, always alert and thinking. I do not like a dog that would chase a ball off a cliff or a dog that always looks like he's on the edge of being out of control. Secondary obedience must be a natural thing and not have to fight with my dog or constantly proof basic obedience in the context of protection work. I like high food drive since I train tracking with food and do foundation obedience with food. No frantic behaviors like spinning, biting at crate/kennel bars, chasing his own tail. I like high prey drive but more of a powerful prey drive (like a dog that is not just barking and messing around to *play* but seriously wants to overpower and drag down someone). I do not mind a dog with a defense/civil edge but must have a high threshold for aggression (I want a dog that will go for the juggular when it comes down to it but not one that won't let my family and friends through my front door). Aloof/neutral with other dogs and people. I like deep barking. I can handle a little leaking of drive but don't like teeth snapping constantly. Overall I value a dog that is calm, thinking, clear-headed over drive, drive, drive. Must not only understand but enjoy the freeshaping style of training. Must love to fetch/retrieve naturally.  One of the areas that tell *me* a lot about a dog is the tracking, I like a certain "way" there but it's hard to describe. The dog must be able to take pressure and corrections (fair) but not be a total blockhead. No handler aggression. A sleeper for protection is OK but must be really engaged doing foundation work and basic obedience stuff from day 1. Puppies that are mouthy drive me nuts and I do not believe that they have to be this way or should get away with it in order to be a Schutzhund dog.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

lhczth said:


> I didn't say "loves to work".
> 
> A lot of those terms are very open for interpretation especially ones like sharpness and thresholds.


It just reminds me of on sites like match.com when people always say "I love to laugh and have fun" as if anyone hated laughing and fun lol


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

:rofl: Yes.


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## la_nausee (Dec 28, 2011)

Thinking dog? What in the world is that? I bet I make your thinking dog think twice about gripping. That's for sure. People come up with descriptors they have no understanding of.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

A thinking dog is one that is not so low threshold it will cause itself an accident. I'd rather have a dog that can assess a situation instead of just reacting to react. Aware of the surroundings.

I've seen dogs so food driven on a track that someone could be holding a gun above them and they are so tunnel visioned for the food that nothing else matters, they wouldn't even notice a threat.
I'd rather have a dog aware of the surroundings than just work in that type of drive state. But of course who would score higher points?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Also, not just avoiding low thresholds but problem solving and working through stress and pressure.

Another thing that is valuable to me is watching a dog work where biting (or "gripping") is *not* an option. I've seen some good sport dogs fall apart when they don't get bites when they think they should, or aren't sure how to channel pressure when biting is not an option, or are so distracted by equipment (sleeves) on the ground they can't actually work the threat in front of them. This is more valuable to me than "grips" but SchH is not my preferred venue.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The bite is a stress relief, after all


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

If the dog needs to bite to gain stress relief then one needs to look at the clarity of the dog, its nerves and/or its training.  Or to look at it another way, I would really wonder about a dog's clarity and nerves (and/or its training) if it felt stress unless it was biting. A dog should not have to bite to feel in control. 

Grip tells us a lot about the dog no matter if people care about it or not. It isn't all about sport points.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

lhczth said:


> I would really wonder about a dog's clarity and nerves (and/or its training) if it felt stress unless it was biting. A dog should not have to bite to feel in control.


Exactly




> Grip tells us a lot about the dog no matter if people care about it or not. It isn't all about sport points.


I agree, but if I'm prioritizing based on *my* ideal dog, I am focused more on other aspects than the biting/gripping. If the dog is solid and the training is good I think the biting will be strong and good. I love SchH but SDA is my favorite, for me a happy medium between SchH and other protection sports like PSA and some police type exercise. The first protection title actually has no biting so it's important for me to have a dog that doesn't lose his mind when he has to perform a trial routine (longer and more exercises than SchH1) with no bites. Since no dog is perfect I'm willing to overlook bites that are not jammed into the back of the dog's jaws quicker than I am some other behaviors.


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