# Anyone switch from Orijen LBP?



## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm curious if anyone with a puppy have switched away from Orijen LBP due to loose stool?

If so, what did you switch to and how is the result? Thanks.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

How long has your pup been on the orijen? 

If it's been a while... the food may just be a little too rich for him. Orijen doesn't agree with every dogs stomach. You might want to try out a food with grains and/or with less protein.


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## SamTheDog (Apr 4, 2011)

I just switched from it. He is 6 months old and seemed to always have loose stool. Still trying to make sure it isnt something other than the food, but something like Wellness LBP might be a good switch.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> How long has your pup been on the orijen?
> 
> If it's been a while... the food may just be a little too rich for him. Orijen doesn't agree with every dogs stomach. You might want to try out a food with grains and/or with less protein.


It's been almost a month. The strange thing is, sometimes the stools look great, especially when he starts to go, but sometimes at the end, it starts coming out way softer. It really varies and I've cut out everything else from his diet. Only Orijen.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

tuffloud1 said:


> I'm curious if anyone with a puppy have switched away from Orijen LBP due to loose stool?
> 
> If so, what did you switch to and how is the result? Thanks.


Orijen LBP was too rich for Abby. We switched her to it very slowly but she never fully adapted to it. Loose and very smelly stools. We switched to Taste of the Wild High Prairie and she is 'perfect' now.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

PaddyD said:


> Orijen LBP was too rich for Abby. We switched her to it very slowly but she never fully adapted to it. Loose and very smelly stools. We switched to Taste of the Wild High Prairie and she is 'perfect' now.


What made you try Taste of the Wild High Prairie if you don't mind me asking? The calcium seems too high for a puppy.

Did she seem better overall or just the poops?


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

tuffloud1 said:


> What made you try Taste of the Wild High Prairie if you don't mind me asking? The calcium seems too high for a puppy.
> 
> Did she seem better overall or just the poops?


I noticed that a lot of people here use it and it was rated high in dog food reviews, especially for the price... though it is not inexpensive.
Also, I liked the ingredients.
I can't say that she seemed better overall because she has always been in
excellent health. It was just the poops and the gas.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

tuffloud1 said:


> It's been almost a month. The strange thing is, sometimes the stools look great, especially when he starts to go, but sometimes at the end, it starts coming out way softer. It really varies and I've cut out everything else from his diet. Only Orijen.


How much does your puppy weigh? How much are you feeding per day? How many meals per day? And how many times each day does he poop?

What were you feeding before and how long did it take to transition over to the orijen?


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> How much does your puppy weigh? How much are you feeding per day? How many meals per day? And how many times each day does he poop?
> 
> What were you feeding before and how long did it take to transition over to the orijen?


Not sure on the weight. He weighed 16 pounds almost 3 weeks ago. I'm guessing around 20-22lbs? He is 12 weeks old today. I'm feeding him 2 1/2 cups a day, split into 3 meals. He usually poops 3-4 times a day.

I was feeding Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy formula before, not to be confused with the regular Wilderness formula, they just came out with the puppy formula.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I wouldn't feed BB wilderness or TOTW to a puppy that young and small. He still has a lot of growing to do and really doesn't need all that extra calcium.

You said his stools are good in the beginning, but come out soft at the end, but that may be due to his size being only 20 pounds and the amount of food he's eating. It may just take time for his stomach and digestive system to adjust.

I'd stick with the Orijen for a little longer if it were me, but if his stools are really that bad, you might want to think of trying a lower protein kibble with grains. That may agree with him a little more.

I'd give wellness super5mix or the regular BB chicken and rice a shot before I'd resort to a high calcium kibble. There are a few other grain inclusives that are pretty good too... just do a little research.



tuffloud1 said:


> I was feeding Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy formula before, not to be confused with the regular Wilderness formula, they just came out with the puppy formula.


It's still not a LARGE BREED puppy formula... big difference between puppy and large breed puppy when it comes to calcium. I'd be really surprised if the puppy formula was appropriate for GSD pups. Looking at the website... the puppy has the same minimum calcium amount as the regular adult formula. I'd double check the max amount with them directly before feeding that puppy formula to a large breed.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

TOTW is, IMO, is not for growing pups. I would not choose that particular formulation for a puppy.

My male has a pretty sensitive stomach. He did finally get firm stools on Orijen as a pup. It was food that I could not overfeed though. His system got used to it and stools were fine. Fed it for his first 14 months of life. German Shpherds can have sensitive digestive systems and some do not do well on a some foods.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

What is confusing is many people don't consider German Shepherds a "large breed", they consider them a medium breed.

If this is the case, the calcium and phospherous levels wouldn't be that big of a deal right?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

tuffloud1 said:


> What is confusing is many people don't consider German Shepherds a "large breed", they consider them a medium breed.
> 
> If this is the case, the calcium and phospherous levels wouldn't be that big of a deal right?


Have you seen how much a GSD grows from 8 weeks of age to 8 months? It's a lot. GSD's are large breeds. They aren't giant breeds like danes or mastiffs, but they're definitely a large breed, so yes, the amount of calcium is a big deal.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I had the exact same issue you are describing with Saber the entire time she was on the Orijen LBP. It was not bad enough for me to switch her, and I kept trying things like switching out her treats or wondering if it was bully sticks. Just "pudding poop" at the end of her stool most of the time.

At 6 months I switched her to regular adult Orijen and she immediately had perfect poop and has for 2 months now, even with treats and bully sticks. You can look at the ingredients, they are identical. The calcium % is the same, and almost all the nutrition stats are the same except adult has more calories per cup, and slightly less fat I believe. It also costs a little less, and I feed less because of the higher cals. She is doing great on it.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Yes, Orijen was too rich for my 2 year old when she was a puppy. She would start out with good poops, but then they would get runny. Well not runny, but like pudding. I adjusted her portions and it still didn't help.

I then switched to Natural Balance and she had good poops. Now she's on raw and her poops are perfect.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

cassadee7 said:


> At 6 months I switched her to regular adult Orijen and she immediately had perfect poop and has for 2 months now, even with treats and bully sticks. You can look at the ingredients, they are identical. *The calcium % is the same*, and almost all the nutrition stats are the same except adult has more calories per cup, and slightly less fat I believe. It also costs a little less, and I feed less because of the higher cals. She is doing great on it.


Actually, there's less calcium in the Orijen adult formula than the LBP formula. Not too sure why... I emailed them once to ask about it and they never responded.

If I had a puppy, I'd just immediately start them on the adult formula if I was going to go the Orijen route (which i probably would).


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I tried both adult and the puppy versions of the Orijen.....*personally* I did not like the food....neither did I find Wellness beneficial to my dogs.
But many people love the foods...and if their dogs are doing well on the foods, then they should continue to feed the products.
I prefer Earthborn Primitive for a grain free food....and actually, all the Earthborn line is good (including their foods that contain some grain).
Natural Balance has been a great food for a friend of mine...and Whole Earth foods (I think that I named it correctly?) is very popular for another friend.
I have also used EVO...and have nothing negative to say about their products.

So I think it still boils down to...some foods work well for some dogs....others...not so much.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Actually, there's less calcium in the Orijen adult formula than the LBP formula. Not too sure why... I emailed them once to ask about it and they never responded.
> 
> If I had a puppy, I'd just immediately start them on the adult formula if I was going to go the Orijen route (which i probably would).


Ya, I emailed them some questions as well and they never responded. It says they will respond in "3-5 business days".

That's too bad because they seem like such an awesome company with untouchable standards, maybe just not in customer service.....

That is very weird that the adult formula has less calcium. Maybe when he finishes off his bag of LBP, I'll just go with the adult formula.

I was also thinking of trying the 6-Fish formula, calcium and phosporous are the same as LBP I think. What do you think of giving him the 6-Fish?


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

cassadee7 said:


> At 6 months I switched her to regular adult Orijen and she immediately had perfect poop and has for 2 months now, even with treats and bully sticks. You can look at the ingredients, they are identical. The calcium % is the same, and almost all the nutrition stats are the same except adult has more calories per cup, and slightly less fat I believe. It also costs a little less, and I feed less because of the higher cals. She is doing great on it.


So up to 6 months you fed Orijen LBP and the poops were pudding most of that 6 months or did they get better while on the LBP?


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

tuffloud1 said:


> So up to 6 months you fed Orijen LBP and the poops were pudding most of that 6 months or did they get better while on the LBP?


They did not get better on the LBP. It wasn't bad enough to switch, though, as she would have pudding mostly at the very end of each poop (and yes this continued til I switched her). I wasn't sure if her treats were causing it, but when I went to adult, poops were firm right away. No more pudding at all. Same treats.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

cassadee7 said:


> They did not get better on the LBP. It wasn't bad enough to switch, though, as she would have pudding mostly at the very end of each poop (and yes this continued til I switched her). I wasn't sure if her treats were causing it, but when I went to adult, poops were firm right away. No more pudding at all. Same treats.


This bag of lbp is almost gone, would you recommend just switching him to the adult formula now at 12 weeks?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

tuffloud1 said:


> This bag of lbp is almost gone, would you recommend just switching him to the adult formula now at 12 weeks?


Go for it... it's worth a shot. 

If it was me, I would have just started the puppy on the adult formula all together since the calcium % is about the same anyways.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Orijen responded quickly to me and said the nutrient distribution is different in the LBP compared to the adult. It is not all about the calcium. They did not recommend the adult food for large breed pups.

I consider the GSD to be a medium sized dog as far as measurement. When cosidering growth rate and joint formation in puppyhood....large breed approach.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

tuffloud1 said:


> This bag of lbp is almost gone, would you recommend just switching him to the adult formula now at 12 weeks?


I, personally, would do it. I wish I had switched her sooner. But I am no expert. Here are some fact to help you decide:

Calcium (min/max):
LBP 1.5/1.7%
Adult 1.4/1.6%

The LBP and Adult both have 38% protein. Everything else is pretty much the same across the formulas... same DHA/EPa, similar Omegas and glucosamine/chondroitin. Same exact ingredients.

The only other difference is calories per cup:
Puppy 480
LBP 410
Adult 460

So I feed her a little less food now to give her about the same number of calories (I follow the bag guidelines and then watch her weight and go up or down a little to keep her at a good weight).


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm really trying to understand what this means: "the nutrient distribution is different in the LBP compared to the adult."

What is this?

I have studied alot about nutrition in humans, it's actually one of my hobbies with weight training.

I don't get how they can say "the nutrient distribution is different" when the ingredients are virtually identical. How can you claim something is this specifically fine tuned for large breed puppies when it doesn't reflect it in the ingredients compared to the regular adult formula?

To say that the lbp formula is somehow assimilated differently than the adult or regular puppy formula when the only difference is a little more or a little less calories is absurd.

This makes absolutely no sense.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Ingredients are basically the same. It the distribution of these that is different in the formulas.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

Samba said:


> Ingredients are basically the same. It the distribution of these that is different in the formulas.


What does this mean? The "distribution".

Does it mean what the puppy is digesting and using? Does it mean how much of each nutrient is being absorbed? 
Does it mean the distribution of the LBP ingredients are processed and packaged in different facilities than the Adult formula?

What?


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## Bee (Jun 24, 2011)

Yes, I switched as I was having the same problem as a lot of you. Dillon's poo would be good at the start but followed up by a pudding end. I've switched him to Autarky puppy/junior and normal poo now


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## Mfd (Jul 11, 2011)

I have a 10 week old GSD, that I started on Orijen because he didn't like the consistency of Honest Kitchen. His stools are just like you explained. I called the company yesterday and they told me I was feeding him a 1/4 cup to much and that could cause it because its so nurtionally dense. I have a hard time believing that since my pup is not fat you can feel his ribs. But I'm going to try it a few days and see if it does make a difference. Otherwise I'm thinking of switching to Now grain free puppy. They don't have a Large breed puppy, but they used to be the same company with Orijen. It seems alot of people have this same problem.
Marie


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

I am having the same issue with Grizzly. Poops were fine until a week or so ago. Now he does a solid poop followed by th pudding poop each time he goes. I was attributing it to the fact that he is 14 weeks and has started teething. Now I might give it a second look. I just bought a new 15 lb bag, so I will wait until it is gone. 

Bison is on TOTW, but I am not ready to switch Grizzly to that yet. What other LBP options are there?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I did have poo problems with Hogan if I fed too much at a time. I took him to smaller meals and he did fine. It didn't take much Orijen to grow him and he is a strapping boy. I did keep him lean and grew him slow as my vet is a stickler on this. One could mix it with an ID food to help firm stools and get the system going on it. Of course, there ae going to be German Shepherds who have trouble with super premium foods. I have seen it more than once. 

Hogan did have loose stools with teething though.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

Actually for the past few days, I slightly lessened the amount being fed, he's 12 weeks and I reduced to about 2 cups and he has no pudding now. I started giving him a tablespoon of all natural yogart too and his stools are great.

Hopefully this will continue. I have noticed that his stools are directly correlated to how much I'm feeding him and how active he is each day. If he's a little more active, I feed slightly more, less active, I feed slightly less.

Seems to be working.


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## CrazyJack (Feb 20, 2011)

After trying Orijen and then some different options as we had stool issues many of you refereed to as well, we ended up doing a 50/50 mix of Orijen and her original food she came from the breeder eating. It has worked well and occasionally mixing in some wet Wellness Lamb as a treat. Our dog has been a rather picky eater, but this combo works well for us and good stools! I do think teething during this time added to her pickyness and stool issue too, but I will stick with what she is eating now.


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