# So bored with agility classes



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I thought I'd follow my club's agility class setup. I took Agility I with Balto about 1.5 years ago. He finished his CD, so now we are now in Agility 2. It is so boring. There's no sequencing. They focus on perfecting crosses and turns with one jump. No contact equipment, just boards for 2o2o. Going through tunnes and chutes. Sit on the table.  

Balto can do all the contact equipment, tunnels. I have not trained weave poles, yet, and they are not a big part of class. 

When I took my first class with Doerak 5 years ago, by the end of 8 weeks we were doing 15 obstacle courses. Nothing fancy and arranged in a nice square, but still a course. 

Just griping.

Oh, yeah, next is agility 3 and then 4.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

If you already can do all the handling stuff on the individual equipment prefectly..... then you should be sequencing. 

It sounds like you should be in an advanced class....

Though you need to be careful. I know when I first started agility I was dying to put everything together and sequence, thinking 'agility' was all about the equipment.....

Twelve years in, I have realized it's only a bit about the individual pieces of equipment and the dog doing it. The rest of it (80%?) is about what happens in between the equipment.

That's the handling and the dogs 'job'. Front crosses, right time right place. Rear crosses, right time right place. Change of direction for the dog/change of direction of the course. Right leads, left leads, take off, landing, collection, extension, dog's enthusiasm and speed during the exercises, attention and focus on handler during the exercise, ability to PLAY in class with you anywhere at anytime.....

So, if your class truly is boring cause you and your dog are 100% on everything currently being taught, then you need to ask your instructor to move up. And I'm not too impressed by you instructor for not recommending that.

If instead, you are doing like I did with my first dog and picking and choosing what I thought was important, and what I enjoyed doing.......... you may be accidentally losing out on a ton of foundation skills that agility training goes thru to make a great agility team.

Heck, I'm still practicing using the clicker, treat bag, timing timing timing and it's 12 years later!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I still want to get Molly in agility


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

Theory on agility training has changed quite a bit in the past couple years. Many instructors are really working the foundation skills for a long time before putting it all together. I dont disagree but I do think it is a challenge to keep some teams interested.

Maybe ask for a private lesson every two weeks at a more advanced level.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

lylol said:


> Theory on agility training has changed quite a bit in the past couple years. Many instructors are really working the foundation skills for a long time before putting it all together. I dont disagree but* I do think it is a challenge to keep some teams interested.*
> 
> Maybe ask for a private lesson every two weeks at a more advanced level.


That's a good idea. Specially cause with the one on one some of the 'boring' foundation stuff may be able to be explained better. Particularly how it relates to later training. 

Or the instructor can also better evaluate and determine if bumping up to a higher level class would be better.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

BlackPuppy said:


> When I took my first class with Doerak 5 years ago, by the end of 8 weeks we were doing 15 obstacle courses. Nothing fancy and arranged in a nice square, but still a course.


 This isn't necessarily a good thing - such a class may be focused more on the obstacles and sequencing than on making sure the dog has a solid understanding of agility (taking obstacles from all angles, contact behavior, reading handlers cues, speed and control, etc). Foundation training may not be as exciting but it makes a huge difference long term. 

If you feel you and your dog are at a higher level than the class, it doesn't hurt to ask to be evaluated to get into another class. But if you've never done foundation work, than it may be beneficial to stick around and learn about it.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

AgileGSD said:


> This isn't necessarily a good thing - such a class may be focused more on the obstacles and sequencing than on making sure the dog has a solid understanding of agility (taking obstacles from all angles, contact behavior, reading handlers cues, speed and control, etc). Foundation training may not be as exciting but it makes a huge difference long term.


True, we didn't learn crosses back then and didn't focus much on 2o2o. I learned that later. But it sure was satisfying to be able to do that course after 8 weeks. 

I think it's also confusing Balto. Over the past year I have been taking Balto in on the weekends and do a quick run through on the practice course. I go through 3 obstacles at a time and stop for praise (or repeat). Anyway, now during our class, Balto suddenly doesn't understand "tunnel" even though we had done it many times on weekends and in my yard. He suddenly has a fear that the table is a wobbly board, because they had us still working with that thing in the beginning. Balto can do full height teeter, but very slowly. 

I don't think I'm going to continue with these classes. It's not like I'll every be trialing higher than club level. I have enough equipment at home, I think I'll look at the "backyard dog" mini courses and work that way.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> He suddenly* has a fear* that the table is a wobbly board


This is one of my concerns about going too fast and skipping classes. The entire point is to start with the wobbly board and do it until your dog LOVES it. This is the FIRST foundation step.

Only when your dog LOVES the wobble board and is dragging you to it, do you start with the teeter/table. If you progress too far too fast, quess what happens when you start your dog on the teeter?



> Balto can do full height teeter, *but very slowly.*


My puppy was slamming and LOVING the teeter at 6 months....because we did the boring foundation stuff until she LOVED all of that, so the harder stuff was fun too!

And we only started sequencing a few months ago...Granted I was in a puppy class so some stuff (weaving closed poles) you want to wait until they were over a year old. But it was also because the goal was to make class fun, each and every obstacle fun and fast (and safe) so when we did start sequencing the individual obstacle performance (like our pups not doing an automatic 'down' on the table, or not being able to hit the entry on the weaves, or not taking a tunnel) just didn't happen...

What DOES happen, is the mess in between where me as a handler has to figure out how to clearly show Glory where we are going next. So it's really just the handler stuff that is our problem and she's just 14 months old. She nails her contacts (2on/2off), gets her weavepoles (all 12), automatic down on the table, and loves the tunnel and the chute. 

Now keeping the bars up will be our problem for awhile. Her having to learn her pacing at speed to keep those up will take some time!


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Balto doesn't like _anything_ moving underneath him, never has. Doesn't matter if it's in agility or real life. He only does the teeter because I told him he could have a hotdog if he did it. Yep, I said that, and he finally did it for me. 

I think he's the laziest Belgian in the world. That's why I'm wondering if I should even bother with him and agility. He really only likes the A-frame, and doesn't like jumping.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Are you training with a clicker?


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i wouldn't waste anymore time in this class if you are not happy........if you are negative about something your dog is going to pick up on it...........and its not going to be productive for either of you......

i would find another agility class, maybe go observe first to make sure its what your looking for.......where you have already laid out the foundation work i would continue in the appropriate level, then if you are still not crazy about it, i would move on to something else............


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

BlackPuppy said:


> True, we didn't learn crosses back then and didn't focus much on 2o2o. I learned that later. But it sure was satisfying to be able to do that course after 8 weeks.


 That is the problem really. People find it rewarding to rush through obstacle training so they can have a dog that "runs courses" as quickly as possible. People are looking for early success but more often than not, such training just means that your dog is going to need retrained on certain things at some point and/or that you will have to work much harder later in the dog's training.

For example: Not teaching a contact behavior to start with allows dogs to develop and practice flying off from the start. With some dogs, even if you go back and reteach a contact behavior you will constantly struggle with fly offs (trust me on this one...). 



BlackPuppy said:


> Balto doesn't like anything moving underneath him, never has. Doesn't matter if it's in agility or real life. He only does the teeter because I told him he could have a hotdog if he did it. Yep, I said that, and he finally did it for me.


 This is where early foundation training for agility can really come in handy. And where trying to push the dog to do full sized equipment when they are unsure usually falls apart over time. My first Belgian was a really nice dog but when she was about 5 months old, she was taken to an agility workshop and she fell off of a full sized dogwalk (the first time she'd been introduced to the dog walk). She never got over being unsure about the dogwalk and that was in the earlier days of agility training, so the options I had to work with her were fairly limited. 



BlackPuppy said:


> I think he's the laziest Belgian in the world. That's why I'm wondering if I should even bother with him and agility. He really only likes the A-frame, and doesn't like jumping.


 Some dogs surprise you 

Does Balto like toys? How is his food drive? Sometimes "laziness" is actually a sign of stress. Is he unsure about being in a class setting? About being around strange dogs/people?


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## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm an agility newbie (only 1 class yet!) and I'm actually glad that we are taking the slow approach. When I first started looking into it, I thought it was all about the obstacles. Now I really get that it's all about bonding and fun with Tara, and I'd rather have a slower progression and spread the skills out over a number of different classes then feel like we've learned everything in one 8-week session with nothing to continue doing. I think a lot of the things in our first class are things that Tara knows already, so I just have to be creative in making it fun and challenging for her by changing it up a bit.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

TaraM1285 said:


> I'm an agility newbie (only 1 class yet!) and I'm actually glad that we are taking the slow approach. When I first started looking into it, I thought it was all about the obstacles. Now I really get that it's all about bonding and fun with Tara, and I'd rather have a slower progression and spread the skills out over a number of different classes then feel like we've learned everything in one 8-week session with nothing to continue doing. I think a lot of the things in our first class are things that Tara knows already, so I just have to be creative in making it fun and challenging for her by changing it up a bit.


Good for you! :thumbup: Hey, you can practice tugging in class and working with the clicker and your timing. It's actually good when not ALL of the class is new and overwhelming, so you can more easily focus on the stuff you need to.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Stark and I are in our 2 set of classes (beginners, advance 1 - where we are at - then there are 2, 3 and 4) and just this week, two weeks in to our second course we are now just starting to do sequencing.

I like the slow progression because it really gives you the opportunity to know the basics and NAIL THEM EVERY TIME before moving on.


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## tkarsjens (Nov 30, 2009)

I teach a beginning agility class and this is one of the hardest issues to address. I have a commitment of 8 weeks with the students. They may continue beyond that, but I have 8 weeks to convince them agility rocks and they should continue.

Now, if I knew they were going to compete, I *know* the best thing to do is spend a lot of time on foundations. Yes, it's boring (even for me) but it sets you up for the future. 

But since I'm trying to convince them agility is fun and give them an overview, I introduce them to all the equipment except weaves and teeter in those 8 weeks. I try to work in foundation work when I can.

The problem is if this is their first dog, I can explain 2o2o till I'm blue in the face. They don't understand it until they start trialing, their dog blows contacts, and THEN they want to train them. I can talk about one jump work, but until they see course with threadles, tight turns, jump wraps - they just don't see why I am showing it to them.

I get it - because I just started my youngest GSD in a "Foundations 1" class at another school. Week one we did no agility equipment at all - mostly tricks, targeting, and a couple of wobbly boards. Week three we introduced a jump without a bar. Am I bored? Absolutely! But I know that I need to train these skills if I want her to be a really stellar agility dog.

If you really want a solid, reliable agility dog and you're very serious about it, these types of classes are perfect. If you just want to play and maybe do a trial or two but you know you'll never be real serious about it, a course that does more equipment is the way to go. The problem is the middle ground - if you don't know how you'll feel about it. You might get hooked and be hardcore about it or it might be just for fun. Then it's harder to see what to do.

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

The problem with saying foundation work isn't important unless peoploe are serious about competing is that no one knows how serious someone may be when they are just starting. You can have someone come in "just for fun", decide to trial a bit, then decide to pursue higher level titles, then....

I'm not real sure why foundation work has to be "boring" either.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I wished we'd do the foundation... never had it with Yukon and I've got lots of problems with the handsigns. We don't have an Agility Starter class, it's all in one pot... beginners and advanced, they are all together.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Some boring foundation work


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

That is basic obedience. I was more talking about touching and handsigns. 

Basic obedience isn't the problem.


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## tkarsjens (Nov 30, 2009)

Mrs.K said:


> That is basic obedience. I was more talking about touching and handsigns.
> 
> Basic obedience isn't the problem.


I saw tugging (teaching play), learning tricks, working on focus and strong recalls in the first couple of minutes. Those are all excellent foundation work for agility and not always taught in obedience (especially tugging and tricks) 

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Actually it is Silvia Trkman's "puppy class", which she requires all dogs take for at least 3 months before they start agility. There is lots of foundation agility training in there if you watch the whole thing


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

For some reason, (and it was me too when I started and messed up my first agility dog  ) newbies just really want to get on all the equipment and start sequencing.

Plus, the foundation stuff just doesn't make sense to newbies, 2on/2off? Are you kidding my dog would NEVER jump off (famous last words.... ) Buja board.... ridiculous.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

AgileGSD said:


> Actually it is Silvia Trkman's "puppy class", which she requires all dogs take for at least 3 months before they start agility. There is lots of foundation agility training in there if you watch the whole thing


The video is great. Dottie trains at Dallas Dog Sport (Dallas Dog Sports) and there they make you go through three levels of "basic obedience" before they even let your dog get on the equipments.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

the local all-breed club wants dogs to complete both beginner level obedience class (1 & 2) before they start agility. Unfortunately, those classes are very competition OB based with teaching "heel" right from the start, as well as competition recalls, stays, etc. Those classes don't help prepare a dog for agility at all, aren't ideal for pet owners and aren't great for creating good competitive obedience dogs either. I've had a lot of issues at the lower level agility classes and have pretty much stopped taking my dogs to them. 

I think there are ways to combine foundation with what people want in a class setting. You can start teaching jumps, jump chutes, weave entries, table, work on a contact trainer, wobble board, tunnels along with the foundation groundwork stuff. If you introduce it to people as "this is how agility is trained", they will accept it. If you start them right away on just equipment and then try to get them to work on foundation - forget it!

When I started my first dog in agility, we did lots of foundation work in combination with Intro Agility. Right from the start we learned and were expected to work at home on targeting, "agility recalls", directional cues, tricks to help develop rear end awareness/improve flexibility, etc. Intro class started with the dogs being warmed up with heeling on both sides, quick recalls, tricks, stays/waits, etc. That was when agility was still pretty new - before it was even an AKC titling class. In my area, foundation work in Intro class has been on a steady decline since then. I find it strange because foundation skills are now given such importance with major agility trainers. It feels like we've been moving backwards with classes here!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

In Dottie's pre-agility classes we worked on: recall through all kinds of distractions like running past two dogs playing tug to the left and right of the dog, start line stays, agility "heeling", flatwork like front and rear crosses and sweeps, perch work, target, send to table or a PVC box, ladder work, jumping techniques. We have been doing this since last september. Dottie just passed her last preagility class and is now finally ready for "real" agility.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

There was a great class that I took with Dena and Keefer (unfortunately it doesn't seem to be offered anymore) called Agility Basics. It was a level 1 obedience class using modified puppy safe obstacles for dogs over 5 months old. We worked on basic skills with recalls over low jumps (just a few inches), a tire jump that they could pretty much just step through, a low table, a very short tunnel, a short chute, a wooden ladder on the floor, a wobble board, and a sort of low dog walk with open steps on one end a ramp on the other and a short walk between, about twice the width of the usual dog walk. We also worked on "wait" and targeting. It was tons of fun, and a great intro class for people who wanted to move on to agility later. Level 2 OB was a prerequisite for agility, but you could get instructor approval to skip it and go right into agility after Agility Basics, which is what happened with me and Dena. 

In our first Agility 1 class we started out right away with more targeting, and introduced contacts. We did jumps with the bar laying on the ground and worked on very short sequences, such as jump/tunnel/table in a straight line. There was a lot of focus on handling skills, and they only introduced 2 or 3 obstacles each week. The dog walk wasn't until the second to last week, and we didn't even do the teeter until level 2. It surprises me when I read about other classes where the dogs are doing everything practically from the very beginning! Some of the foundation stuff wasn't that exciting, (crate games anyone? ) but it's all important. I didn't have any equipment at home, and no place to set it up or store it if I did, so between classes all I could really do was foundation work. Dena had a great start line stay and really nice 2o2o contacts.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I didn't have any equipment at home, and no place to set it up or store it if I did, so between classes all I could really do was foundation work. Dena had a great start line stay and really nice 2o2o contacts.


 That is a big advantage of foundation work - it gives people a way to work on agility skills at home with no obstacles.


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