# Any other blue GSD owners here???



## PiedPiperInKC (May 1, 2011)

Just curious!

I know they're rare - but I sure would love to chat with others who have them and see pics of their blues, too!

I took Kaiya on a walk this morning and I just can't believe all the attention she draws...it's kinda' awesome!! I've told the 'story of the blue GSD' so many times already...I can't count 'em! 

Here's her 13-week pics I took on Wednesday.


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## Two (Jul 18, 2011)

What a pretty pup! I haven't seen many others on here with blue GSD's. 

Where did you get her?


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## PiedPiperInKC (May 1, 2011)

Thanks!

My breeder is in the Kansas City area. She doesn't breed blues - just bred Kaiya's mom & dad for the first time and it turns out they both carried the recessive gene! This will be the first - and last litter to come out of those two. Glad I have such a unique girl, though!


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

I do not know of any other blue GSD owners. But I have to say that she is beautiful! I understand why the blue is not bred for, but it breaks my heart to know that so many have been euthanized even before they could be loved. I know they are "against" the standard, but they are gorgeous and just as lovable. I don't understand why a breeder would want to hide them as long as they don't repeat the same breeding. It isn't their fault they had two dogs with the same recessive gene....Ok that is my vent for the day. I LOVE looking at the pictures you post. She has such vibrants color!!


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## PiedPiperInKC (May 1, 2011)

Danielle609 said:


> I do not know of any other blue GSD owners. But I have to say that she is beautiful! I understand why the blue is not bred for, but it breaks my heart to know that so many have been euthanized even before they could be loved. I know they are "against" the standard, but they are gorgeous and just as lovable. I don't understand why a breeder would want to hide them as long as they don't repeat the same breeding. It isn't their fault they had two dogs with the same recessive gene....Ok that is my vent for the day. I LOVE looking at the pictures you post. She has such vibrants color!!


Well guess what? I didn't even KNOW there was such thing as a blue GSD until 7 weeks ago when I found out the pup I put a deposit down on turned out to be blue. But the worst thing I've ever heard is that these pups so often get euthanized. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

I am not a breeder - but I will say this. Who died and made these breeders God? Just because a pup doesn't have the correct coloring to fit 'breed standard' doesn't mean it should die!!! There are MANY people out in the world who would be HAPPY to adopt these puppies into their families!! I, for one, am THRILLED that my girl has such a beautiful, unique look AND will have all of the same wonderful traits as my other two GSD's did! Trust me, I had NO IDEA this type of thing was happening but I am APALLED that it is. I would NEVER want to buy from a breeder who even considered doing this. Of course, we'll never know because the pups are killed before anyone ever knows they even exist. I'm sure they don't want anyone to know they do this - but yet they have no problem doing so. How can these breeders live with themselves? That's when you know it's all about the BUSINESS not about the LOVE for animals and especially for GSD's. They're going to have a much better reputation if they happily give these pups loving homes than if anyone finds out they KILL them because their eye and skin color doesn't fit to the 'standard'. I have to believe most reputable breeders with hearts do this - at least it is my hope.

This is my 3rd GSD - same breeder - all 3 had different parents. This is her 1st time seeing blues in 16 years - completely unexpected. She won't be breeding the parents again - but she was THRILLED to see these blues and they ALL went to loving homes!!

(I just ranted even more than you...so no worries!)


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

My goodness, those colours are intense! She looks like she's blue and gold. That is remarkable - I have never seen such intense colour. She's lovely!


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## PiedPiperInKC (May 1, 2011)

Wild Wolf said:


> My goodness, those colours are intense! She looks like she's blue and gold. That is remarkable - I have never seen such intense colour. She's lovely!


Thanks!

Yep, she's blue and red. Here's a pic of her parents....


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## GSD84 (Apr 27, 2011)

She is beautiful! Love her colouring!


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## sadie2010 (Nov 24, 2010)

Beautiful pup and parents. I learned something new today. Blue GSD. Never seen one before. What great colors. I love it.


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

I hear all the time, "I didn't know they came in white"...now it's my turn...I didn't know they came in blue. She's beautiful! Are her eyes blue too?


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

She is a beauty! I just love love that collar! Where did you get it from?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

So do you have PROOF that breeders are commonly going around killing baby puppies for being the wrong color, or are these rants based on misinformed assumptions and urban legend?

This just is not something that is going on all the time behind the scenes like people seem to like to believe. In the past, yes culling for all sorts of reasons was far more common and accepted in the past. But the dilution genes were never widespread in the GSD population in the first place. Add in those practices from decades past that further reduced the existance of those genes in most bloodlines, and that is why you don't see them very often. Not because breeders are hiding them and killing them. While there may be the occasional breeder who still culls those pups, it is certainly not widespread. Like most other faults or disqualifications the vast majority are are removed from the genepool not by culling but simply by placing them in pet homes with spay/neuter contracts where they won't be bred.


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

Chris Wild said:


> So do you have PROOF that breeders are commonly going around killing baby puppies for being the wrong color, or are these rants based on misinformed assumptions and urban legend?
> 
> This just is not something that is going on all the time behind the scenes like people seem to like to believe. In the past, yes culling for all sorts of reasons was far more common and that's a big part of why the dilution genes are found far less frequently in modern dogs because those genes were eliminated from most lines through those practices decades ago. The dilution genes were never widespread in the GSD population, and are even less frequent today due to culling practices of the past. That is why you don't see them very often, not because breeders are hiding them and killing them. While there may be the occasional breeder who still culls those pups, it is certainly not widespread. Like most other faults or disqualifications the vast majority are are removed from the genepool not by culling but simply by placing them in pet homes with spay/neuter contracts where they won't be bred.


I have no proof that this is done regularly, but through other conversations have come to the conclusion that this was done in the past more frequently then now. But then again, I don't think there is anyway to know how often it happens now. I am sure a breeder wouldn't tell anyone. And I guess I understand why they would do it, I just can't imagine that anyone with a heart could do it. They would make great companion pets as long as they are spayed/neutered to prevent them from breeding. 

But I wonder why the breeders would eliminate them, is it so no one knows their animals throw off blues so that they can continue breeding the same animals together?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I'll say it again--I think blues are SO beautiful, and if one popped up in a breeding I was interested in, I'd take that pup in a heartbeat. If I were a breeder and had a blue pop up in a litter, I wouldn't repeat the breeding but I'd view it as a happy accident; certainly nothing to hide. 

No, we shouldn't be breeding FOR blue, but I personally don't understand why it's against standard. I mean, color doesn't affect health, temperament, or working ability, and it isn't even a lethal gene like Merle.


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## PiedPiperInKC (May 1, 2011)

Chris Wild said:


> So do you have PROOF that breeders are commonly going around killing baby puppies for being the wrong color, or are these rants based on misinformed assumptions and urban legend?
> 
> This just is not something that is going on all the time behind the scenes like people seem to like to believe. In the past, yes culling for all sorts of reasons was far more common and accepted in the past. But the dilution genes were never widespread in the GSD population in the first place. Add in those practices from decades past that further reduced the existance of those genes in most bloodlines, and that is why you don't see them very often. Not because breeders are hiding them and killing them. While there may be the occasional breeder who still culls those pups, it is certainly not widespread. Like most other faults or disqualifications the vast majority are are removed from the genepool not by culling but simply by placing them in pet homes with spay/neuter contracts where they won't be bred.


Proof? No. How do you get that kind of proof? I can't imagine anyone admitting to that. However, I've heard about it before AND there was a discussion on here a couple of weeks ago where a reputable breeder threw a blue and he was adopted out to a loving family. The breeder said that the sire's owner said the breeder should cull it right away. Luckily the breeder did NOT do that and that sweet, little guy will live his life in full being loved as he should!

Not trying to start any arguments at all - and didn't blame anyone for anything. Just saying that based on what I've heard and what I've read - it sounds like these practices still exist - even though it may be instances that are few and far between. Let's hope it's not true!!


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

I know I have heard that long coats, also a breed defect, have been culled in the past by some breeders. I don't even want to get into the whole breed standard as it relates to long coats as I think they are so beautiful, and now that I am aware of them, I prefer them. I was not aware of blues until a couple weeks ago due to another post, but I also think they are amazing looking.


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

PiedPiperInKC said:


> Proof? No. How do you get that kind of proof? I can't imagine anyone admitting to that. However, I've heard about it before AND there was a discussion on here a couple of weeks ago where a reputable breeder threw a blue and he was adopted out to a loving family. The breeder said that the sire's owner said the breeder should cull it right away. Luckily the breeder did NOT do that and that sweet, little guy will live his life in full being loved as he should!
> 
> Not trying to start any arguments at all - and didn't blame anyone for anything. Just saying that based on what I've heard and what I've read - it sounds like these practices still exist - even though it may be instances that are few and far between. Let's hope it's not true!!


It's kinda an old practice, breeders back in the day would "save the best and cull the rest." 

Now-a-days breeders typically sell the puppy as a pet only dog instead of culling it. I am sure than in Germany and other countries it is still a normal every day practice to prevent over population of unwanted genes or additional resources such as food/care/etc. Silly non-the-less. I do feel unless the pup has a severe birth defect that would hinder a healthy/normal life they should be sold to a pet only home.

Some breeders will charge more for these rare pups. Only the Kennel Clubs have it as a disqualifying color, just like white shepherds. So unless you plan to show the dog, it will still make an amazing pet.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> Like most other faults or disqualifications the vast majority are are removed from the genepool not by culling but simply by placing them in pet homes with spay/neuter contracts where they won't be bred.


This always confuses me. Is this wrong?

Wouldn't the sire and dam, regardless of what color dog they're bred to in the future, continue to pass the recessive gene for blue on to their pups? 

So besides never breeding the pups, wouldn't you want to stop breeding the sire and dam that created the pups if you were actually trying to extinguish the recessive gene?


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## KAE (Jun 21, 2010)

Wow... Really off topic here.


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

KAE said:


> Wow... Really off topic here.


It Happens.


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## PiedPiperInKC (May 1, 2011)

KAE said:


> Wow... Really off topic here.


I'm the OP. I don't mind...it's a good conversation that I've been very curious about anyway since I've got a blue!  

(however, if there are any other blue owners out there...would still love to hear from you! I'm sure I can't be the only one on the board...)


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## marielrowland (Jan 6, 2011)

She is gorgeous!


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## PiedPiperInKC (May 1, 2011)

marielrowland said:


> She is gorgeous!


Thanks so much!:wub:


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## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

What a gorgeous puppy! And like you, I am appalled to think that they won't even consider giving these puppies a chance...some people might even pay MORE since they are so rare. Not everyone gets a GSD in order to show it...I know I didn't! I got my GSD simply because the breed had everything I was looking for in a PET! Maybe the word will get out and these pups can get a chance going forward!!

Enjoy your baby...she's just precious!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Wouldn't the sire and dam, regardless of what color dog they're bred to in the future, continue to pass the recessive gene for blue on to their pups?
> 
> So besides never breeding the pups, wouldn't you want to stop breeding the sire and dam that created the pups if you were actually trying to extinguish the recessive gene?


I guess you would, if you wanted to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If the two dogs in question are superior specimens in every other way, but happen to carry the blue gene, I personally wouldn't think it necessary to cast them out of the gene pool--just don't breed them to other known blue carriers. It's not like blue is a health issue.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Maybe I am the only one, but I'm glad it's not included in the breed standard. If I wanted a blue eyed dog with a grayish coat I would get a Siberian Husky :shrug:. GSDs have darker coats and brown intense eyes and that's how I like it  Whenever I see a GSD with blue eyes I immediately think mix lol.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Wouldn't having a blue dog only penalize you if you were to show in the conformation ring? You could still compete in any other AKC event with out being faulted. Right? 

If so, why would one care if blue (or long hair etc.) was standard or not? (Saying if the OP wanted to compete in AKC events like agillty, rally etc.)


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Lilie said:


> You could still compete in any other AKC event with out being faulted. Right?


Sure. Agi, Sch, etc. I think the AKC recently opened up agility to mixed breeds as well.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

AKC opened all their events to mixed breeds, except conformation, as far as I know.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> AKC opened all their events to mixed breeds, except conformation, as far as I know.


Ah, nice. I had only heard of agility since that's the one i'm going for


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## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

Tbarrios333 said:


> Maybe I am the only one, but I'm glad it's not included in the breed standard. If I wanted a blue eyed dog with a grayish coat I would get a Siberian Husky :shrug:. GSDs have darker coats and brown intense eyes and that's how I like it  Whenever I see a GSD with blue eyes I immediately think mix lol.


But isn't it the characteristics of a GSD that made you fall in love with the breed vs. how they looked? Sables (which some people immediately think are mixed) get the same bad rap. My Cheyenne is a sable, but a GSD through and through. If I wanted a true breed standard, I would have gotten a black and tan. To me...as long as it is a GSD, I don't CARE what coloring it has.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I am not sure that's the question Lilie was asking, though it probably does answer it. I am curious though of her _actual_ question (at least the way I read it). 

A blue GSD is _not_ a mixed breed. Can a "faulty" yet AKC-registered GSD still participate _as_ a purebred GSD in AKC events?

Again- the fact that they allow mixed breeds almost certainly means the answer is yes- but I assume "faultiness" only quantifies in confirmation?


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

wildo said:


> I am not sure that's the question Lilie was asking, though it probably does answer it. I am curious though of her _actual_ question (at least the way I read it).
> 
> A blue GSD is _not_ a mixed breed. Can a "faulty" yet AKC-registered GSD still participate _as_ a purebred GSD in AKC events?
> 
> Again- the fact that they allow mixed breeds almost certainly means the answer is yes- but I assume "faultiness" only quantifies in confirmation?


Yes, she is in fact a pure bred even if she doesn't look it and I'm sure she is registered with the AKC as such. She could definitely participate in anything but conformation as a PB GSD. I was just adding that last bit of info as a side note.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Ok- I figured as much, but figured I'd clarify. And thanks for correcting my spelling of conformation.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

To answer the question, a blue GSD can be registered as a pure-bred GSD and compete in performance events. It is only in the show ring that it would be disqualified or penalized? (not sure now which). 

Conscientious breeders won't breed an out-of-standard dog on purpose. Conscientious breeders feel a personal responsibility in producing dogs that match the standard as closely as possible. Nothing wrong with a blue popping up unknowingly here or there, the problem is when people start breeding for blue ON PURPOSE, and advertise it as rare, and sell if for more money than the ones that are within standard. That is when the qualities and the temperament of the GSD start to go downhill, as they have a very small gene pool to choose from. 

And saying that one does not care about working dogs and only want a pet - GSDs, even working lines, make good pets for the right people - if a breeder has blues (by accident), and you are in the right place at the right time, great! Scoop up the pup! 

But don't support breeders who cater to the "I want something rare" mentality and breed for colour first and foremost. Rescues often have blues too - great place to find a 'rare' colour without supporting the colour breeders.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

jprice103 said:


> But isn't it the characteristics of a GSD that made you fall in love with the breed vs. how they looked? Sables (which some people immediately think are mixed) get the same bad rap. My Cheyenne is a sable, but a GSD through and through. If I wanted a true breed standard, I would have gotten a black and tan. To me...as long as it is a GSD, I don't CARE what coloring it has.


You're right. I don't really have anything against the blue GSD. My own white GSD technically isn't even the same kind of GSD you have! 
I love the GSD's loyalty and work ethic, but I could get the same if not more from a Malinois or Border Collie. 

I'd still like for my GSD, Malinois, or BC to look how they are meant to look according to the standard. I don't think sable coats are a fault anyway, just uncommon in the show ring because the saddle back is popular (correct me if i'm wrong).


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

He is beautiful!! I know there was someone on here that had posted the just purchased a blue GSD pup. I think the thread was titled Blue GSD ...

but I have a Harlequin Great Dane and the dog book I bought when I got him says Great Danes with color impefections ( Like Blue Merle) are recommend to be destroyed. I was shocked. Glad I didn't ask for proof, lol

Your pup is adorable, enjoy!!!!.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

This topic becomes a double edged sword.....
IF a breeder breeds for "faulty/not allowed or non standard" colors.....they are not reputable breeders or become labeled BYB. *which is very easily done here and elsewhere, when someone doesn't fit the "criteria" of the masses*
BUT....then posters state that "There is nothing wrong with breeding "non standard colors etc..." they are still GSD dogs...etc..etc..

*Personally, I believe recessive genes happen...no need to be ashamed or "hide" the facts. Color doesn't make the dog, and it has no baring on temperament.*

I just don't understand how what is "required" by many when viewed one way.......but is not acceptable when viewed another way?
Sorry...maybe it's just my headache talking....


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

She is beautiful, congrats! I love the blue GSDs and I would adopt one for sure if I had the opportunity. I believe at least one other person on the forum has one?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Robin...it's hot...get a beer and don't read any conversations! :rofl: btw...if YOU happen to end up with a blue puppy in a litter someday...I WANT IT! :wub: I think they are beautiful.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Shoot Jax08, after seeing the beautiful pup the OP has.....if I get a blue....I MAY KEEP IT!
Yeah...need a beer and some pain killers.


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## PiedPiperInKC (May 1, 2011)

Tbarrios333 said:


> Maybe I am the only one, but I'm glad it's not included in the breed standard. If I wanted a blue eyed dog with a grayish coat I would get a Siberian Husky :shrug:. GSDs have darker coats and brown intense eyes and that's how I like it  Whenever I see a GSD with blue eyes I immediately think mix lol.


Just curious...do you think my blue girl looks like a mix? (don't worry...it won't hurt my feelings if you do!!)

I think she looks like a 100% German line, GSD...just with unique coloring...but that's me!

(Did you see the pic of her parents earlier in the thread?)


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

PiedPiperInKC said:


> Just curious...do you think my blue girl looks like a mix? (don't worry...it won't hurt my feelings if you do!!)
> 
> I think she looks like a 100% German line, GSD...just with unique coloring...but that's me!
> 
> (Did you see the pic of her parents earlier in the thread?)


The only reason I would think so is because of the blue eyes and that is if I knew nothing of her history. Her parents are very richly pigmented and very handsome, I saw them 
In the videos, she is a typical landshark, cute and crazy puppy. If I saw her out on the street I would think she is mixed with something, but that is only because I've never seen or heard of a blue GSD before this one.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I don't think your girl looks like a mix at all. But I think the eye color makes it questionable for people. Had I not been on this forum and learned that blue GSDs often (always?) have blue or yellow eyes- I'd also wonder if it was a mix. In fact, I can imagine myself asking somewhat timidly: "Now... she _sure_ looks very purebred, but those eyes are throwing me off a little. _Is_ she slightly husky?"


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## PiedPiperInKC (May 1, 2011)

Also, did you guys know that her SKIN is blue underneath any of the fur that is steel blue? The skin color is normal underneath her red fur. That one I didn't discover until a few days after I brought her home!

Also, the pads of her feet started off pink! (I've attached a 6-wk. pic of her where you can see her pads). They're now a grayish-pink...so darn cute!

The eyes were as blue as blue can be up until about 10 weeks. Now they're more hazel. For those of you who haven't seen my earlier puppy pics of her - I've attached a couple so you can see those blue eyes. I also attached a pic of her brother who was the TANK of the group! OMG - I bet he was 15 lbs. at 6 wks.! (he's the 3rd pic) Just a big 'ol sweet, calm baby though...I've got the rambunctious one!

I do think Kaiya looks different than any other blues I've been able to find online. I think it's because of how deep the red is on her. Her parents both had a LOT of red so her red is VERY red and that looks so cool with the blue/gray coat.

The little white patch on her chest is a bonus!!


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## PiedPiperInKC (May 1, 2011)

DanielleOttoMom said:


> She is a beauty! I just love love that collar! Where did you get it from?


I actually got that at a clothing boutique a couple of years ago thinking it would fit my adult female GSD at the time...NOT!!

It's coming in handy now, though!! People LOVE her bling! LOL


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> This topic becomes a double edged sword.....
> IF a breeder breeds for "faulty/not allowed or non standard" colors.....they are not reputable breeders or become labeled BYB. *which is very easily done here and elsewhere, when someone doesn't fit the "criteria" of the masses*
> BUT....then posters state that "There is nothing wrong with breeding "non standard colors etc..." they are still GSD dogs...etc..etc..


I posted the same query about white GSDs a short while ago.... is there any such thing as a "reputable" WGSD breeder, since they are only breeding for color, and a DQ color at that? Isn't that pretty much BYB by definition/default?

I was directed to a few websites of breeders who are earning titles, working real jobs with their WGSDs, screening for hips/health, and doing everything that reputable breeders do. In fact they seem to have pretty comprehensive genetic information available for Whites. Since WGSDs are showable in UKC and other registries (and now are considered a seperate breed in some), there is a conformation standard for them, so something to work toward.

Soooo.... what if someone decided to start breeding blue GSDs and campaigning for breed status, just as the people are doing with Whites? Is there any way they could be considered reputable? I am sure people are doing it already, but more likely to cash in on "rare" colors than to create sound, healthy dogs.


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## mydogrocks (Oct 20, 2010)

She's beautiful


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

robinhuerta said:


> Shoot Jax08, after seeing the beautiful pup the OP has.....if I get a blue....I MAY KEEP IT!
> Yeah...need a beer and some pain killers.


That little Kaiya is a show stopper. 

Hope your headache goes away. Mine is starting so a storm must be on its way to break this heat.


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

So here is my question/thought. Should a "reputable" breeder never breed either the male or female again? 

Here is my train of thought with my limited knowledge of human biology. (yes I had to take plenty of science classes in college, but we did not go way into depth on genetics) Lets say that a female is perfect in every way, has added a lot to the gene pool, but out outstanding puppies with great temperaments. Then with a new mate they put out a blue puppy. At that point you know that both Parents are carriers of the recessive gene (we will call the recessive gene b). So they are both Bb, and the blue puppy is bb. When breeding the parent together you have a 1 in 4 chance of getting a blue puppy (bb), half of the puppies will be carriers (Bb) and another 1 in 4 will not have the recessive gene (BB) (I know it isn't that cut and dry, there is more to it than that....but that is as far as my Biology class got me )

So I fully understand that "Blue" is not a standard, and ideally you want to breed away from that. But would it be wrong for said female that is ideal in every other way to continue to breed to males that do not have the recessive gene? If you breed said female (Bb) to normal male (BB) theoretically only 1 in 4 will be carriers (Bb) and the rest would be normal. Is it worth giving up the other qualities of the female (or even the male if you want to argue him as well) just to eliminate a recessive gene that we don't have much control over. I am asking this honestly, since I am not and will never be a breeder I wonder what kind of ethics (if that is the right word) play into this. 

I commend breeders that try to stay within the standard and breed sound animals both mentally and physically. I am just wondering how recessive genes are incorporated into the mix. Thanks, and sorry if this comes out confusing. I have a hard time typing what I am thinking


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Danielle609 said:


> So here is my question/thought. Should a "reputable" breeder never breed either the male or female again?
> 
> ...
> 
> So I fully understand that "Blue" is not a standard, and ideally you want to breed away from that. But would it be wrong for said female that is ideal in every other way to continue to breed to males that do not have the recessive gene? If you breed said female (Bb) to normal male (BB) theoretically only 1 in 4 will be carriers (Bb) and the rest would be normal. Is it worth giving up the other qualities of the female (or even the male if you want to argue him as well) just to eliminate a recessive gene that we don't have much control over.


Like I said before, I'm not a breeder, but I would think it foolhardy to give up on an ideal breeding animal just because it carries a harmless recessive gene. Of course you would not knowingly breed to another dog with the same recessive, but even in the worst case scenario it's no worse than producing a longcoat IMO, and no one even blinks at that.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

jprice103 said:


> But isn't it the characteristics of a GSD that made you fall in love with the breed vs. how they looked? Sables (which some people immediately think are mixed) get the same bad rap. My Cheyenne is a sable, but a GSD through and through. If I wanted a true breed standard, I would have gotten a black and tan. To me...as long as it is a GSD, I don't CARE what coloring it has.


Sable is dominant over other colors and very common mostly in working lines. People who think they are mixes just don't know any better. I'm not sure why you think sables have a bad reputation.

Because of Rin Tin Tin and the popular showline dogs people are used to only seeing black and tan(red) with traditional saddles. Black and tan is no more true to the standard than any other accepted color. 

United Schutzhund Clubs of America - Breed Standard

Illustrated Standard of the German Shepherd Dog, COLOR & PIGMENT


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

Freestep said:


> Like I said before, I'm not a breeder, but I would think it foolhardy to give up on an ideal breeding animal just because it carries a harmless recessive gene. Of course you would not knowingly breed to another dog with the same recessive, but even in the worst case scenario it's no worse than producing a longcoat IMO, and no one even blinks at that.


good point...never thought of that. I agree with not breeding to another male that you know has the recessive gene as well. But not being a breeder, I don't really understand the harm in continuing breeding the female.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> Because of Rin Tin Tin and the popular showline dogs people are used to only seeing black and tan(red) with traditional saddles.


Way off topic here but the original Rin Tin Tin was not a black and tan - he was a sable. The more muted silver and tan was used for the TV series in the 50s because of the old black and white TVs. If you watch an old movie of the original sable color you will notice how hard it was to see him in many of the scenes in the old films. Even the black and tans would be too dark to have shown up as well as the coloring used back in the 50s. 

http://wagsdogclub.com/Community/articles/rin_tin_tin.htm


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

ILGHAUS said:


> Way off topic here but the original Rin Tin Tin was not a black and tan - he was a sable. The more muted silver and tan was used for the TV series in the 50s because of the old black and white TVs. If you watch an old movie of the original sable color you will notice how hard it was to see him in many of the scenes in the old films. Even the black and tans would be too dark to have shown up as well as the coloring used back in the 50s.


Thanks for the info, I will have to search out the original. I've only seen stills and short clips not sure what decade though.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

miss seraphina blue when she was a baby:










and the queen, all grown up, snoozin':










at age 9 (in just a few days):










just after her eye disease was first diagnosed:










i've never seen a blue shepherd whose eyes stayed blue into adulthood, they change to amber.

about the health of blue/dilute gene dogs: while there is no definitive "proof", many vets share the opinion that these dogs do have more health problems. sera has pannus, dry eye, and has recently been diagnosed with sjogren's syndrome (an immune mediated disease). none of this slows her down tho, we call her "the tank". her sire recently died at 11 and her dam is still going strong at the same age. they are both black and tan. 

you can see many more pictures at:

THE ADVENTURES OF SERAPHINA BLUE & THE MAN IN BLACK


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Your dog Sera is a beautiful senior!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i've said it before and i'll say it again... i would LOVE to have a blue GSD. The one i knew at the dog park back home was stunning and he was a total lover. Wouldnt mind have a blue sable but i've only heard of a blue sable once and she was more of a silver blue if that makes sense. Unfortunately she didnt make it to her 2nd birthday.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

There's a pic of a blue sable on this page about 3/4 down: Kerstone Shepherds - GSD Colors, page 2


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

> about the health of blue/dilute gene dogs: while there is no definitive "proof", many vets share the opinion that these dogs do have more health problems. sera has pannus, dry eye, and has recently been diagnosed with sjogren's syndrome (an immune mediated disease).


And there is a causal relationship between the blue color and these ailments? 

The only ailment I have ever heard associated with blue is a certain type of alopecia, and I believe it happens when you breed blue to blue over many generations. I have heard Dane breeders say that you should breed black into your blue line to avoid this.


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