# Is he too thin?



## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Midas is my 15 month old GSD, and he was extremely sick when I got him at only 3.5 weeks old. The rest of his litter ended up dying and he's physically stunted due to his poor health as a pup. At almost 1 month old, he weighed 2.6 lbs.

Anyways, now he is about 66lbs (last time I weighed him was about 2 months ago, but he looks the same). He is super thin if you ask me or anyone else except his behaviorist. She says he's perfect for his body. You can see each one of his ribs, and when you pet his stomach, you can feel where the ribs turn in. You don't see his hip bones protruding though, which I guess is good.
He's short for the breed I believe, but I've seen some around his height so I guess it depends who I am comparing him to. I've put him on a bunch of food in his life... he's been on blue wilderness (couldn't tolerate it), raw (did great and put on a lot of weight in a short period but I got too excited with it and gave him too much which caused explosive diarrhea so we stopped), Eukanuba, Bil Jac, Natural Choice, and he's been on Nature's Recipe the last couple months. I just went out and bought Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete and he just ate his first serving of that.

Now when I had him on Nature's Recipe, the bag says feed him around 5 cups a day. I've been giving him 12 cups, and still no weight gain. Poop is fine. His coat has always been extremely shiny and healthy, and he's an active boy. I just separated from my husband, and so him and I have been running alot and spending a bunch of time together being active. 

Does anyone have any suggestions for me, or am I just in denial and he's actually a good size? The pictures I have attached aren't the best indicators because of the quality of the camera, but it's the best I have. 
The second pic is from January 2012 and he's grown taller since then but not fatter. And the first pic is from a few minutes ago.
Any good experiences with DN EA? Thanks!


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Oops sorry the pics didn't attach.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Your pup is too thin. If you are feeding that much and he's that thin, you should try feeding something else. Not all dog foods are good for all dogs. From the description of what you have tried, it sounds like he either can't handle high fat or he needs more fiber. You might also want to try some digestive enzymes.

Have you had him to the vet to have him checked?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I think he looks alright. My male was super lanky and bony looking at that age too. It takes some time for them to fill out.

Edit: I agree with checking with the vet.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

12 cups is quite a lot.
Have him checked for digestive issues. He might have a malabsorption syndrome. He might be eating, but the food might not be getting properly absorbed into the body.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

qbchottu said:


> 12 cups is quite a lot.
> Have him checked for digestive issues. He might have a malabsorption syndrome. He might be eating, but the food might not be getting properly absorbed into the body.


Oops, I must have missed that part  12 cups is a whole lot...


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

To be completely honest, he hasn't been to the vet in awhile. I feel like a lousy mom for saying this, but it's been about 8 months since he went to the vet, and that was just for the nerve damage he accidentally did to his leg in the kennel. I used to work at the vet and he got checked a bunch when I worked there, considering it was free. When his blood work and fecals and all that were done, everything came back great, but again, that was like a year ago. I need to have it done, I am just procrastinating. The thing is, I have been separated from my husband for about 2 weeks now, and since it's just me and the dog (not the other dog or hubby) he's been eating 12 cups. He used to barely eat 5 cups a day before. He is a very picky eater and i have to sit on the floor usually (till I moved out) and coax him to eat. My other dog would be morbidly obese if he ate half of what Midas eats, he LOVES food.

But like I said, when he was on raw, he put on weight very good for those 10 days he was on it. I noticed a difference in that short period of time. I doubt he has worms because every 2-3 months I give him dewormer and a digestive antibiotic just in case (i have so much dog medication stored up from working at the vet. yes it was paid for lol). He poops about 2x a day and it's solid, no issues.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Many dogs are poor eaters because their system isn't healthy and they are either nauseated or have belly pain. I would suggest you have him checked. Even with the solid poo, I might try him on a bland diet and maybe some pepsid to see if he's nauseated. I would be leaning even more toward trying digestive enzymes to see if he needs help in that department.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

How much activity is he getting daily? You mentioned kennel. Do you mean just a crate or an actual dog run? 
I have a friend with a stud dog. That dog eats 8-10 cups a day and is still very bony. But this is a large, adult male that constantly runs all day long. They have to crate him to stop him from being so active so he can actually put on some weight. 

Have you completely ruled out digestive disorders? You also mentioned he gained weight on raw, if it's feasible, why not go back to raw?


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Well, before moving out, he was kenneled while I was at work or asleep. My husband was deployed and I was also in nursing school so he was kenneled alot. And when I say kennel, I mean the little cage thing. But when I was home he had the other dog (aussie/GSD mix) who was very active and they would run like mad men in the backyard. Well now I live in a townhome and he's only in the kennel when I am not home. He is out while I sleep now. School starts back up in about 2 weeks so he will be in the kennel a little more. 
We go for a walk each day now (0.5 miles or so) since my townhome doesn't have a fenced backyard and I try to run at least 2 miles daily. We live in texas so it's HOT. He's not extremely active to the point he doesn't lay down. If we're not playing fetch or something, he will happily lay down and chew his chewbones or something.

Not to sound dumb, but what digestive enzymes are you guys talking about? Anything in particular you would recommend? I will start looking into getting bloodwork done soon.

Edit: the raw wasnt too bad, i just suck at measuring the stuff out. I couldn't control myself lol I saw him putting on weight and i just gave more and more. If anyone has a good balance recommendation they could give me, perhaps that would help. I only added the raw part to see if maybe that would show his digestive system is fine and capable of putting on weight since it did it with raw?


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Here's a good side image of him from a few minutes ago. Then the one of him peeing (Okay i just added it cause i thought it was cute) was from March I believe?

Now i just looked into GNC's probiotic. I have to go to work in a couple hours (petsmart) and it's something we sell there. Do you think that's good enough? Myself, I've been taking probiotics for a month now and they have helped tremendously.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

look on rawdogranch.com and find Lauri's spreadsheet for proportions.


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

It's basically 2-3% of his body weight you have to feed for raw.
let's say he's 85 lbs so 2.5% would be 2.1 lbs of raw food each day.
50 % of his daily meal will be Raw meaty bones (chicken necks, backs, legs, pigtail, pork neck, etc)

45% would be muscle meat. (Any meat without bone is fine)

5% would be organ meat. (Half of it should be liver and the other half could be other organs, hearts are considered muscle meat)


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Is he neutered?


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

No, not yet. I think I am gonna wait until he is 2.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I think your dog looks fine for his frame. My dog is 14 months and only 66 lbs as well. I think his body weight is perfect for his age and size. If you worked in a Vets office and now work at pets mart you probably are subconsciously comparing him to the average over weight dog you see on a daily basis. 

12 cups is a lot of food though.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

12 cups of food and he is that thin? I'd take him to the vet.


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## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

My to-do list would be:
1. Take to vet, test for Cobalamine/Folate and TLI (make sure you fast him for 12-18 hours)

2. Get a good higher fat food. I feed Eagle Pack - Power Adult and have had great success. It's a 30% protein, 20% fat food. It's about $1 per pound, so it's a good value 

3. You could try a digestive enzyme, I had good success with this product. Amazon.com: Animal Essentials Plant Enzymes & Probiotics, 300 Grams: Pet Supplies


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Wild Wolf said:


> 12 cups of food and he is that thin? I'd take him to the vet.


This is the only advice you need to see in this thread.

Something is not right if he's eating that much food and he's that thin. That is not even close to normal. He needs to see a vet asap.


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

See the reason I haven't rushed him to the vet already is because like I said, he appears totally healthy, solid poops, ect. And a LOT of my friends remind me of him... they eat total crap junk food and don't gain a pound (where I eat a piece of pizza and can feel a roll trying to form on my stomach). So I guess I've always told myself that he just has a super fast metabolism.


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

super fast metabolism could mean hyperthyroid..which can lead to heart problems etc...so maybe get thyroid checked


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

I was thinking that, but I only ever heard about hypothyroid so I assumed it wasn't something that's normally tested or something. Because at the vet (I was at the front desk but still learned alot) we always gave meds for hypo, but I never heard of a dog with hyperthyroidism.

I had hyperthyroidism and had to have my thyroid removed. Obviously, now I have hypothyroidism and take a pill a day. I will have to google hyperthyroidism.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It's very rare for a dog to be hyperthyroid.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

robk said:


> I think your dog looks fine for his frame. My dog is 14 months and only 66 lbs as well. I think his body weight is perfect for his age and size. If you worked in a Vets office and now work at pets mart you probably are subconsciously comparing him to the average over weight dog you see on a daily basis.
> 
> 12 cups is a lot of food though.


 
Yesterday I was looking at the pictures from my iphone. Today I am looking at larger pictures on the computer and yes he is very thin. He does have a very light frame though so I would not expect him to be very heavy. However, he is not fleshy at all. I agree that he needs checked out by a vet.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Wild Wolf said:


> 12 cups of food and he is that thin? I'd take him to the vet.


I agree that I'd be concerned about the 12 cups of food. That's a ton. My dogs get between 3 and 4....

Be clear with the vet about the amount of food and your concerns so they head off on the right track...


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

my sisters boxer is hyperthyroid..it may be rare but it can happen


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

I will call around today or tomorrow and get prices. Unfortunately this didn't happen 3 weeks ago when I was loaded, and now price is an issue. It will get done though.

How much weight do you think he could gain on his frame? Right now I feel like he is SO fragile. Anytime he bumps his body into a wall, I seriously just hope he doesn't break a rib or something. It's like he is all bone, with nothing to protect him from things like that. He has his goofy puppy moments still where he randomly gets the urge to be a goofball and sometimes I just want to put him in some protective bubble cause I am afraid he will hurt himself. I know that sounds silly.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Hard to say without being able to see and feel your dog, but from the pics, I would think a good 5 pounds.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

JMO I like my dog lean but I think your dog should put on 10 pounds, he looks very thin.

My 3 year old male gets fed a total of 4 cups of Wellness Super5Mix a day. He's 28' at the shoulder and weighs between 85-90 pounds.


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

His mom was 76 lbs and his dad was like 85 lbs. Now, that's what the idiot who sold me said he weighed. I actually found out that the dad he claimed, wasn't the dad at all. But another man contacted me saying he used his male as a stud and he's almost 85lbs.

So being at 66lbs, albeit not fully matured/filled out, he is underweight.

Edit: I know for a fact the mom weighed 76 lbs because he took the mom to the vet clinic i used to work at. It was a chain vet and the files transferred on the computer.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

stephanie.jackson said:


> His mom was 76 lbs and his dad was like 85 lbs. Now, that's what the idiot who sold me said he weighed. I actually found out that the dad he claimed, wasn't the dad at all. But another man contacted me saying he used his male as a stud and he's almost 85lbs.
> 
> So being at 66lbs, albeit not fully matured/filled out, he is underweight.
> 
> Edit: I know for a fact the mom weighed 76 lbs because he took the mom to the vet clinic i used to work at. It was a chain vet and the files transferred on the computer.


Fully matured would be between 2-3 years old, he should be between 80-90 pounds at that time. 

I would say he should be about 75-80 at his age right now.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

My male was about 15-17 months old when this photo was taken, he weighed around 75-77 pounds.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

As you can see from our replies, it's hard to say 'your dog needs to gain 'x' pounds' as an absolute. Depending on his frame, and height, and muscle tone.... the exact amount for all of us would be a guess.

But it seems like we all think he's on the thin side, specially for the amount of 12 cups of food a day. That's 3 times what my girls eat and they are each between 70 - 75 pounds and 24" at the shoulder.

Just get to the vet when you can so you get a better feel for what's going on. Hopefully you can then end up saving a TON of money on purchasing less dog food!


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Well, my personal doctor appt took too long today so I was unable to contact vets in the area on prices.

I will say, since I switched his food to Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete, he isn't eating very much. It looks like he ate between 3-4 cups out of his 6 cup dish today. I will take him for a run and see if he wants to eat afterwards.

I will also get back to yall on the vet thing tomorrow.
Btw LaRen, our boys look about the same height (i've never measured Midas) and I would love for him to look that filled out!


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Okay well I just measured his height. I also subtracted an inch due to his thick furry shoulder blade area and by doing so, it says he is 26" tall. And on the AKC website, that is at the top of the desired height. But I don't get it. He seems so small compared to other shepherds. My friend who breeds shepherds is like 5 inches taller than he is (this dog is massive) and way longer.

Maybe cause he looks so thin and bony, he just comes off as small, Idk. Maybe I didn't measure correctly. I looked at the proper way to do it... I placed spray cheese on my wash machine and as he licked it off, I measured from his toes straight up to his shoulder blade. I am confused. He looks so small compared to the ones i've seen.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I think he looks a touch thin, but not ridiculous or even health threatening.

The fact he is eating *12* cups of food every day totally freaks me out, though.

My first thing might be EPI, but not if the poops are perfectly healthy. My second thought would definitely be hyperthyroid. Just because it isn't common doesn't mean it couldn't be the issue.

Honestly, I'd get that blood test ASAP. 

The blood test for that shouldn't be terribly costy, though I don't know where you are.


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Well my buddy is the manager now at the vet so I can casually ask him how much they'd charge me if I went to my old workplace and hopefully he says what he always used to say "nothing, just go hold him down and I will get the sample" :crazy:


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

I am not a big fan of anything your feeding. If you have the money I would try Orijen or Acana. Here are some I really like and some star reviews.

Orijen
Acana
Horizon Legacy
Go, Endurance Only.
Fromm
Merrick
Precise Holistic
Wellness Core
Castor and Pollux Natural Ultramix G.F.
Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural
Evo
Go! Fit and Free
Nature’s Variety Instinct
Pinnacle Peak Protein Formula
Solid Gold
Timberwolf
Canidea Pure Elements
Darford Zero/G Dog Food

Five Star Dry Dog Foods | Dog Food Advisor


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Before you start changing his food up...find out WHY you have to feed 12 Cups per day. What you DON"T want to do is change things up and cause him to have diarrhea or intestinal upset.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

In my opinion body weight is not as important as body condition. Ruger is 14 months old, 25 inches and only 66 lbs but is solid muscle and looks very fit. Here is a picture of him this morning:


You are feeding your dog 12 cups of food a day and you feel that he is very frail (sp) and has the impression that he can hurt himself very easily. There has to be a reason that he is not absorbing the nutrients in his food.


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

RobK, the picture didn't work, can you post it again?

Maybe he isn't frail, he hasn't hurt himself yet. I just think of an extremely skinny, bony child running into things and how the parents would be overly protective. He has some muscle on his thighs, but not much. I think there is a big difference between "lean" and "bones" lol.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

stephanie.jackson said:


> RobK, the picture didn't work, can you post it again?
> 
> Maybe he isn't frail, he hasn't hurt himself yet. I just think of an extremely skinny, bony child running into things and how the parents would be overly protective. He has some muscle on his thighs, but not much. I think there is a big difference between "lean" and "bones" lol.


Here is another try; Ruger at 14 months old and 66 lbs


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Yeah he definitely looks more filled out than Midas 

Also, how can you tell if your dog is "intolerant of activity" or it's just plain too hot. He crashes after 2 miles, but this is a Texas summer and I kinda want to crash out as well. I try to walk 1 miles after our two mile runs and he looks like he wants to just lay down. I do it around 8pm nowadays and it's like 93 degrees still after our walk and now it's 9pm.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

It's probably just too hot. It's been in the 90's for a few weeks straight now in the northeast and it's just too much for my active 4 year old. I get her outside and all she wants to do is run to the shade. When it's cooler, there's no slowing her down.

And have you brought her in for a checkup yet?


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Well I discussed it with my old manager and I will probably bring Midas to my old place of employment tomorrow. She said we can do a complete blood panel, thyroid testing, electrolytes, and internal organ function screening for about $124 and waived the office visit fee for me, with a 10% discount off everything.

So here's to hoping everything comes back okay..


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Well, got his bloodwork done today. He came out to be 65.2 lbs for the record lol.

His CBC came back fine, everything was straight down the middle of the normal ranges. His IOF (internal organ function screen) came back just fine, except his BUN (kidneys) were a little high. I told the vet I wanted a thyroid test, and he said I'd be wasting my money, but I told him that I need to rule out everything. So the first test he ran came out as "high" but that test only gives exact numbers for HYPOthyroid. So then he had to run a separate test to tell how "high" he was. It came out to be 4.0... The norms are 1.3-2.9 and his was a solid 4. So I was concerned and the vet did some reading and he said it's not enough to worry right now because when a dog is hypothyroid and they put them on thyroid medication, they keep the levels between 3-6, which is higher than the normal 1.3-2.9. So he said let's retest him in 3 or 4 months and see if it changes. He also said he was going to read up a little more on hyperthyroid because it's so much more rare than hypothyroidism, and if he finds anything significant he will call me.

I know that when a hypothyroid dog is receiving meds, it's okay for them to be between 3-6 but I am still concerned because in his own natural state, he is 4. I don't know if that means anything bad and for whatever reason, my google skills are slacking today and I can't find any good documentation on this. Any insight?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It's time to submit a thryoid panel to Dr Jean Dodds. You have one weird reading so you need the full panel to see what, if anything, it means.


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