# Any Costco members out there??



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Does anyone here have a Costco membership?Well if you do I have a suggestion on dog food.=)
My mom's friend's daughter works for a service dog organization that trains dogs to help the disable.They use the dog food at Costco, Kirkland Dog Food(thats the Costco brand).It helps reduce and prevent acid in the dogs stomach, so when the dog goes to the bathroom it won't kill the grass.Since there aren't very many Costcos on the East coast they ship it out there to there organizations.My mom's friend recomended this food to us, because we are trying to re-grow our lawn in the backyard.My dogs love this food.Moll & Tanner will literally push their way to the food container to get it, and when I give them their full bowl, they gobble it right up.=)lol.

So if you are trying to re-grow your lawn or just want another brand of dog food thats good for your dog, I suggest Kirkland Dog Food at Costco.


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## WesF (Apr 17, 2009)

I have a Costco membership and was there today. Besides their Kirkland brand they have a new grain-free product called Natures Domain. Its fish based and is very similar to TOTW fish based food. 35lb bag for only $27. We shall see how my boy does on it.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

WesF said:


> I have a Costco membership and was there today. Besides their Kirkland brand they have a new grain-free product called Natures Domain. Its fish based and is very similar to TOTW fish based food. 35lb bag for only $27. We shall see how my boy does on it.


the one i am talking about is 40lb.


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## WesF (Apr 17, 2009)

I know exactly which one you are talking about and have used it before. Samson didn't do very well on it and hasn't done good on really any food. The vet and I are trying to figure out his stomach issues. I also know there are quite a few people on this board who feed Kirkland with great success and you cant beat the price. I just wanted to point out that they also have a NEW food out as well for anyone interested in a grain free food at Costco.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

your dog may have a sensitive stomach.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

WesF said:


> I have a Costco membership and was there today. Besides their Kirkland brand they have a new grain-free product called Natures Domain. Its fish based and is very similar to TOTW fish based food. 35lb bag for only $27. We shall see how my boy does on it.


unfortunately, i tend to think you get what you pay for. meat makes a dog food expensive. i think the Kirkland is an ok food for someone on a tight budget. however, the Natures Domain looks like a bag of potatoes and the price reflects that.

_Salmon meal, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes, canola oil, potato protein, potato fiber..._
_336 calories (you will have to feed alot of this food)_

imo, any grain free food with only 24% protein and 336 calories has very little meat and simply substituted a bunch of grains with a bunch of something else (potatoes in this case).


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## new_wind (Oct 24, 2008)

I have Costco, and I switch to Kirkland From Blue Buffalo Because of the price, My Girl is shedding like crazy, the hair is hard and no soft any more, her stools are OK, i don't see too much benefit for the price.
I am waiting to see if the bring this new food and give it a try, if they don't, i am going back to BB.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

roxy84 said:


> unfortunately, i tend to think you get what you pay for.


That's unfortunately a very common misconception. There are a lot of really crappy foods out there (such as royal canin) that charge absolutely RIDICULOUS prices for the food. Heck, look at pedigree and similar foods. I believe it's pedigree that my costco also sells for a HIGHER price than kirkland. The ingredients certainly don't justify the price, so what does? It's because it's NAME BRAND and heavily marketed.

In the dog food world, there is a lot to be said for "name brand" and marketing. I've been feeding Kirkland for several years with absolutely beautiful results, and I have two that are very sensitive to various things in their foods. It amazes me how many people post about their troubles with "board recommended" brands (such as Orijen, etc) and it's not the fault of the food, it's a health or digestive problem. But if someone posts about troubles with that is deemed to be a less superior food, it's the fault of the food.

Back when I was on this forum years ago, I used to read all the diet threads and constantly stress and worry about whether the food I was feeding was good enough, look for new foods, better ingredients, etc etc etc. 

Took a long break from here, picked a very good quality and cost effective food that did NOT happen to be "name brand," and I've had absolutely fantastic results. I know quite a few people that feed Kirkland and it's being fed to a variety of dogs. Everyone I know has fantastic results.

Bottom line - FEED WHAT WORKS.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Rerun said:


> That's unfortunately a very common misconception. There are a lot of really crappy foods out there (such as royal canin) that charge absolutely RIDICULOUS prices for the food. Heck, look at pedigree and similar foods. I believe it's pedigree that my costco also sells for a HIGHER price than kirkland. The ingredients certainly don't justify the price, so what does? It's because it's NAME BRAND and heavily marketed.
> 
> In the dog food world, there is a lot to be said for "name brand" and marketing. I've been feeding Kirkland for several years with absolutely beautiful results, and I have two that are very sensitive to various things in their foods. It amazes me how many people post about their troubles with "board recommended" brands (such as Orijen, etc) and it's not the fault of the food, it's a health or digestive problem. But if someone posts about troubles with that is deemed to be a less superior food, it's the fault of the food.
> 
> ...



Well said.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

there are some cheaper foods that a given dog may do better on, but on balance, the very cheap foods are cheap for a reason. it is usually going to be because they use very little actual meat and are grain heavy (grain is cheap, meat is not).

i see infinitely more people having problems with the grain heavy foods than with the more meat filled foods. there are always going to be some exceptions.

now, there are definitely some foods that have priced themselves as though they are high quality, and Royal Canin is one of the biggest offenders of this.

for those that believe their dogs should eat a diet with a good amount of meat in it (and do not want to go the raw route), the cheaper foods simply will not suffice. im not trying to be a "food snob", but this is a reality. manufacturers dont put a bunch of meat in a dog food then charge $25 for a 30lb bag.

im not bashing Kirkland. it is ok and does have some meat in it, and fits into some folks budget. however, everyone i know who feeds these lower calorie foods feeds quite a bit more than what i see people feeding on higher calorie, more meat rich foods. it takes away from the perceived value of some of the cheaper foods.

i have more of a problem with Natures Domain. the idea of a grainless food for most owners is to find a food with no grains and high meat content. the only reason salmon meal is first on the list is because they divided all the potato into 4 different types. chances are good its just a potato based food. this is something that is used in limited ingredient diets like Natural Balance out of neccesity.

i recognize that Orijen, Innova, or whatever will not work for every dog. some dogs just do better on foods with less meats and more grains.

ive seen way more owners than not who found the really low cost, low calorie, grain heavy foods were not saving money in the long run. as i said there are always some exceptions.


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## ShepherdHeaven (Feb 12, 2010)

Ill stick with Royal Canine. Dog does well on that stuff. She used to be on kirkland before I got her and have really hard oily coat and flakey dry skin. Changed diet completely to Royal with 1/2 can of wet food and 3tsp of salmon oil and bam! perfect soft fuzzy coat and smooth skin. I agree with above. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

roxy84 said:


> there are some cheaper foods that a given dog may do better on, but on balance, the very cheap foods are cheap for a reason. it is usually going to be because they use very little actual meat and are grain heavy (grain is cheap, meat is not).
> 
> i see infinitely more people having problem with the grain heavy foods than with the more meat filled foods. there are always going to be some exceptions.
> 
> ...



My dogs are fed properly and arent underfed or overfed.They love this food.Its perfect for them.It has just the right amount of nutrition for them.We are trying to re-grow grass in our backyard and this helps prevent acid in their stomachs which is harmful when they go to the bathroom on the grass causing it to kill the grass.It does not take away the value of cheaper dog food.Sometimes the cheap stuff isnt worth it.We get more for our money.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> My dogs are fed properly and arent underfed or overfed.They love this food.Its perfect for them.It has just the right amount of nutrition for them.We are trying to re-grow grass in our backyard and this helps prevent acid in their stomachs which is harmful when they go to the bathroom on the grass causing it to kill the grass.It does not take away the value of cheaper dog food.Sometimes the cheap stuff isnt worth it.We get more for our money.


are you saying Kirkland makes claims that their food will help reduce acid in a dogs stomach? there is a reason a dogs digestive system produces acid. do you know why the food would reduce the acid in a dogs stomach and what the long term ramifications to your dog are?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

roxy84 said:


> are you saying Kirkland makes claims that their food will help reduce acid in a dogs stomach? there is a reason a dogs digestive system produces acid. do you know why the food would reduce the acid in a dogs stomach and what the long term ramifications to your dog are?


it doesnt make claims.it takes the bad acid out.My dogs are perfectly fine.This was suggested to us from my mom's friend's daughter who works with GSDs, Golden Retrievers that they train to help disabled people I don't think a well known and well respected organization that trains and uses dogs for the disabled will use bad food on their dogs and recommend it to other dog owners.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

And my dog's coats are pefectly healthy and soft.the other food we used my dog rarely ate it, she was skinny, and ever since we got this food, she eats it more, she eats it all, and looks more full, and not skinny anymore.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> it doesnt make claims.it takes the bad acid out.My dogs are perfectly fine.This was suggested to us from my mom's friend's daughter who works with GSDs, Golden Retrievers that they train to help disabled people I don't think a well known and well respected organization that trains and uses dogs for the disabled will use bad food on their dogs and recommend it to other dog owners.


somebody is claiming it changes the chemistry of the urine being produced. i am asking if this is true, then what is it about this food that does this. id sure want to know if something was altering the way my dog is supposed to naturally digest food.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

roxy84 said:


> somebody is claiming it changes the chemistry of the urine being produced. i am asking if this is true, then what is it about this food that does this. id sure want to know if something was altering the way my dog is supposed to naturally digest food.


its doesnt alter it completely.It makes it easier for the dogs to digest and when they go to the bathroom it wont kill the grass.Are you thinking does it change the color of the pee?No it doesnt.Its healthy for the dogs, and is good for the ground when they go to the bathroom, because some of the acid in a dogs stomach will get into their poop or pee and destroy the grass.You can go to your nearby Costco and have a look for yourself.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I think the question is WHO is making this claim that it is good for the grass, WHERE is this info coming from and WHAT in the food makes this happen.

You said the company isn't making this claim, yet it is a main reason you are promoting the food. Why? Where are you getting this information from?

Honestly, it sounds like no more than some sort of dog food urban legend to me, especially since the ingredients in the food are nothing special or unusual or really any different from most of Diamond's better grained foods, and it is the high amounts of nitrogen in dog feces and urine that burns the grass, not anything to do with stomach acid.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

roxy84 said:


> are you saying Kirkland makes claims that their food will help reduce acid in a dogs stomach? there is a reason a dogs digestive system produces acid. do you know why the food would reduce the acid in a dogs stomach and what the long term ramifications to your dog are?


I've personally never heard it, and no Kirkland is definitely not advertising it.

Regarding the amount they eat. My dogs eat between 3 and 5 cups a day, 3 going to a 55 lb female, 4 going to my EPI girl and a very active 85 lb 9 month old czech pup, and 5 going to a 95 lb very active 3 yr old male.

They eat the same amount on this food as they have on any other, and they eat the same amounts as many people on this board feed of what are claimed to be superior foods.

Some here feed 3 cups to a very large active dog. Could the dog maintain, sure. I could drink protein shakes all day and be excellent weight and health. But I'd rather eat a bit more and have a full stomach. JMHO


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

Chris Wild said:


> I think the question is WHO is making this claim that it is good for the grass, WHERE is this info coming from and WHAT in the food makes this happen.
> 
> You said the company isn't making this claim, yet it is a main reason you are promoting the food. Why? Where are you getting this information from?
> 
> Honestly, it sounds like no more than some sort of dog food urban legend to me, especially since the ingredients in the food are nothing special or unusual or really any different from most of Diamond's better grained foods, and it is the high amounts of nitrogen in dog feces and urine that burns the grass, not anything to do with stomach acid.


thank you. you articulated my thoughts better than i did.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Chris Wild said:


> I think the question is WHO is making this claim that it is good for the grass, WHERE is this info coming from and WHAT in the food makes this happen.
> 
> You said the company isn't making this claim, yet it is a main reason you are promoting the food. Why? Where are you getting this information from?
> 
> Honestly, it sounds like no more than some sort of dog food urban legend to me, especially since the ingredients in the food are nothing special or unusual or really any different from most of Diamond's better grained foods, and it is the high amounts of nitrogen in dog feces and urine that burns the grass, not anything to do with stomach acid.


It does have to do with acid, ever since our dogs have been on it our grass has been growing and doing better.Like I said, my mom's friend's daughter works with an organization called Dogs for the Disabled, and they feed their dogs this.Do you think a well-known and respected organization will risk their dogs life with bad food?It may not be one of the highest rated ones and its not one of the poorly rated ones,its a all around good brand of dog food.Its not a urban legend.Kirkland is an acceptable dog food. (It's better than most of the foods on the market.).It's not quite as good as foods like Merrick, Canidae, Innova, Chicken Soup, Wellness, etc. 
But it's *MUCH* better than Iams, Eukanuba, Science Diet, Pedigree, Purina, Beneful, Kibbles & Bits, etc.

Kirkland dog food is made by Diamond pet food company. It's equivalent in quality to their "Diamond Naturals" lines. "Diamond Naturals" is better than the original "Diamond" dog foods. Diamond also makes some other even higher quality foods such as "Chicken Soup" and "Taste of the Wild".
It also depends on which Kirkland dog food u get.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

roxy84 said:


> thank you. you articulated my thoughts better than i did.


don't believe me go look it up.I didnt say you HAVE TO buy it.I was making a suggestion.


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## JazzyGirl (May 25, 2009)

Umm, I am pretty sure the stomach acid's that digest food have little to do with the pH of urine. The digestive system is designed to keep as much acid inside the stomach as possible otherwise it would digest more than just the food... (I am taking an Anatomy and Physiology class, and we just learned about this yesterday!)

I can't speak as to exactly why urine's pH is what it is yet, that will be in a few weeks...

Point is the pH of urine _could_ be different on different food but it is doubtful that it is because it changes the stomach acid.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> don't believe me go look it up.I didnt say you HAVE TO buy it.I was making a suggestion.


yes, i would like to go look it up. where is there any information that i can look up about WHY Kirkland dog food would have an effect on Ph of the urine?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> It does have to do with acid.


 
No, it does not. It is a well documented scientific FACT that grass burns from dogs are due to high nitrogen levels in the urine and feces. Ever notice that the grass surrounding the brown spots is actually lusher and greener than the rest of the lawn? That's because the nitrogen levels in the run off fertilize the grass, whereas the nitrogen levels in the actual peed/pooped on area were too concentrated and burned it. 

It has absolutely nothing to do with acid. Canine urine actually has a fairly neutral pH, that generally leans a bit more toward alkaline than acidic in most cases. 



Jessiewessie99 said:


> Do you think a well-known and respected organization will risk their dogs life with bad food?.


 
That is not the point. The topic of discussion isn't whether it is a good food or a bad food, but rather your claim that it will save the grass. If you are going to make such a claim that no one has ever heard of before, that the company itself doesn't make, and frankly that makes no scientific sense, you shouldn't be surprised if people ask you to substantiate it with something beyond "a friend of a friend told me this".

If you like the food and want to recommend it to people that is fine. Some will agree, some won't, but no one will argue with anyone's success feeding something that works for their dogs. But promoting a food under the guise that it is a miracle grass saver... well, if you're going to do that you need to back it up. Instead, you're dodging the very clear cut questions specific to that claim.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

So why does a very well known respected organization use it on their dogs they train to help with the disabled.It makes the poop and pee less poisonous for the grass, that way it wont destroy it.And ever since we started feeding our dogs this food, the grass has been doing better.Nothing is wrong with our dogs, they pee and poop just fine.Nothing is weird or unusual about it.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

OK. I talked to other dog owners who used it and they said it makes the dog go poop less.It produces less waste, so it gives or grass more time to grow back.It uses natural products and it great quality dog food for a inexspensive price.I also noticed my dogs hardly go poop or pee when I take them on walks.The only peeing thats done is Tanner marking his territory.The food has less fillers so less poop.

Does that makes sense?


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## Kruzayn (Jun 9, 2006)

Jessiewessie99, please do some more research on dog foods and digestion before making claims that you do not fully understand. I get you are trying to give a recommendation, but without the knowledge to back up your claims; you are doing a disservice to your cause.

Just because a shelter/trainer/organization is doing 'A' doesn't mean everyone should also do 'A'. The shelter/trainer/organization may have just as much, or less, information as you and may or may not have done the research to justify it. 

Many shelters/organizations would love to feed the highest quality food possible, but cant because of monetary cost. In turn they find the best they can afford; which is what most of us do too. There are also other items to take into consideration when looking at a food, like who manufacturers it...in Kirkland's case it is Diamond (a company with a history of poor quality control and contamination incidents; personally I would never feed anything they touch). Choosing weather to go grain free, limited grain, RAW, etc. is a big task - and there are pros and cons of each choice. After choosing the style of food you want choosing the brand is another step. Cost and quality are big factors that each individual needs to weigh. Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble is a place to start to get some education on dog food and what you can look for.

On a personal, and grammar police note: Could you please insert a space (APA writing style guide) or even 2 after a period (MLA writing style guide). It greatly helps in readability of your posts.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Kruzayn said:


> Jessiewessie99, please do some more research on dog foods and digestion before making claims that you do not fully understand. I get you are trying to give a recommendation, but without the knowledge to back up your claims; you are doing a disservice to your cause.
> 
> Just because a shelter/trainer/organization is doing 'A' doesn't mean everyone should also do 'A'. The shelter/trainer/organization may have just as much, or less, information as you and may or may not have done the research to justify it.
> 
> ...


Did you not read the post before this?Guess not.


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## mnbue (Aug 18, 2011)

*Clarification on the mysteries of urine...*



JazzyGirl said:


> Umm, I am pretty sure the stomach acid's that digest food have little to do with the pH of urine. The digestive system is designed to keep as much acid inside the stomach as possible otherwise it would digest more than just the food... (I am taking an Anatomy and Physiology class, and we just learned about this yesterday!)
> 
> I can't speak as to exactly why urine's pH is what it is yet, that will be in a few weeks...
> 
> Point is the pH of urine _could_ be different on different food but it is doubtful that it is because it changes the stomach acid.



Totally agree....just to weigh in, I've got several years of physiology under my belt (studying medicine for 8 yrs now) , and to clarify for anyone who is still wanting to debate the issue, here's the basic deal:

- The stomach contains acids because it needs them to digest food properly. There is no such thing as "bad stomach acids" or "good stomach acids", and the acid in your stomach has nothing to do with the contents of your urine or stool, unless we're talking a serious medical condition. Forget the stomach acid angle.

- Food contains protein. Protein is made up of amino acids, which when digested, produce nitrogenous waste products, which need to be excreted in urine. Mammals (humans and dogs) excrete these as urea, which is the main component of urine besides water. Urea is neither particularly acidic or alkaline, so urine doesn't contain much in the way of "acids". Forget that angle.

- What urea does have is a lot of nitrogen, which is a fertilizer. Farmers spray urea on their crops everywhere. If you over-fertilize a plant, it dies. Same thing with grass. But there's no way to keep urine from having urea in it. You could, I suppose, feed *very* low protein and reduce urea output (a bit), but I can't see that being a healthy food. Even on a zero protein diet, you'd still get urea from muscle protein breakdown (and that would obviously cause its own problems long-term), and Kirkland certainly isn't that.


On another note, I have seen other products (supplements) that claim to prevent "lawn spots" if added to a dog's feed. I don't know what these are, so can't really comment, although I don't see how these could possibly work, from a medical (or veterinary) standpoint.

Not sure if my geeking-out is actually helpful to anyone, but I hate seeing people fed misinformation.


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

I always fed my dog Origen or TOTW. Unfortunately, he just did not like those foods after a while. So, on a recent trip to Costco, I went ahead and purchased the Kirkland brand and he seems to eat that. However, I will be keeping an eye on his coat, because he has a beautiful and soft coat, so if there are changes for the negative, I'll have to go looking for another kibble. On the plus side, his stools seem to be solid, although I don't think there is any less quantity of them. In fact, when he was eating Origen and TOTW, his stools were definitely smaller.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I have feed Kirkland for several years and my dogs have done great on it, but the idea that it will help your lawn? Bunk.

I tried Costco's new grain-free salmon & sweet potato kibble (Nature's Domain) and Luka actually lost weight on it. So we are going back to Kirkland.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I get my food wholesale from a member of my dog club. There really isn't much markup in dog food prices. EVO fish at wholesale is $64, and petco sells it for $78, for example. Still at $64, I still have to look for a replacement food.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Freestep said:


> I have feed Kirkland for several years and my dogs have done great on it, but the idea that it will help your lawn? Bunk.
> 
> I tried Costco's new grain-free salmon & sweet potato kibble (Nature's Domain) and Luka actually lost weight on it. So we are going back to Kirkland.


It helped my mom's friend's daugher's lawn(or so she said), or something did something. I agree the food helping seems far fetched.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> It helped my mom's friend's daugher's lawn(or so she said), or something did something.


This is how urban myths get started.


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## Deuce (Oct 14, 2010)

We fed the Kirkland brand food for several months to Deuce. He did pretty good on it. We've let out membership run out so i've switched him to another brand but it's a decent food IMHO.


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## WaterBound (Apr 22, 2012)

*The bottomline*

First of all the potential Hydrogen or pH scale is what is not mentioned. The grass burns because the pH is off. Anything too alkaline OR acidic will burn the cells and disturb osmotic pressure within the tissue. The end result is chlorosis of the leaves.

More importantly the urine and feces dramatically change once expelled. Urine is almost sterile fresh from a healthy animal. The microbial actions change the wastes themselves. They in turn make other wastes and break down all of the chemicals. This chelation also allows better absorption of the minerals by the plants themselves.

So putting something in the dog's food or water could change the urine and feces pH. However you are going to affect the dog's digestive system. You will probably reduce the amount of nutrients both broken down in the stomach and absorbed by the intestinal walls.

The end result may be a nice green lawn, but at the long term health of your dog. Not the way to treat the animal you love. Or maybe you love your lawn more than your dog.

THE ANSWER is just to heavily water any spots your dog urinates or defecates at on your lawn. This will dilute the solution and prevent any burn. It will also allow the uptake of all that wonderful nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium which grasses thrive on. The grass will not burn if the pH is not too high or low with a pH of 7 being neutral. Too far off this mark will kill most plants.

Urine actually contains a lot of nitrogen, which is the most abundant chemical in the universe, and phosphorous. In fact the FIRST chemistry experiment discovering phosphorous was from reduced urine burning in a lamp filled with sand.


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## SusiQ (Jul 27, 2007)

I fed the Grain - Free Kirkland - my dogs did well on it - BUT when I found out it was made by Diamond, I switched. Just to put my 2 cents worth in, there is no "bad" acid in a mammal's stomach (HCl) - only an overabundance of production, usually brought about by stress - mainly in humans who worry and fret or lead a stress-filled life. I had absolutely no problem with the food, just concern about Diamond's recalls.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

WaterBound said:


> First of all the potential Hydrogen or pH scale is what is not mentioned. The grass burns because the pH is off. Anything too alkaline OR acidic will burn the cells and disturb osmotic pressure within the tissue. The end result is chlorosis of the leaves.
> 
> More importantly the urine and feces dramatically change once expelled. Urine is almost sterile fresh from a healthy animal. The microbial actions change the wastes themselves. They in turn make other wastes and break down all of the chemicals. This chelation also allows better absorption of the minerals by the plants themselves.
> 
> ...


Yup! My backyard is grass free, so I don't have any problems, but I run the irrigation system on the front lawn if my girls play out front. Works great, just don't let the pee/poo set very long or it's too late.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Without reading through... Kirkland IS a Diamond food ( yea, isn't every cheap grain free?). We considered joining Costco a city away just because of the food opp. but we decided against it since we found out it was a Diamond food. Natures Domain is a Kirkland/Diamond also.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

It's all made by Diamond.....


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We use Kirkland for all our dogs, ND Salmon for allergic ones. 
ALL are doing marvelous on it. 
We use small kibble for the small dogs and larger kibble for the large ones.


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

3ToesTonyismydog said:


> It's all made by Diamond.....


Just cause a food is made by diamond, you claim it's no good (After reading other threads and your post, it is clear you don't like diamond products) ? Despite the recalls, Kirkland is a not so bad brand. Fed it to my dog for a couple of months before I switched to Orijen LBP and I barely noticed a difference.
Now I feed raw because the last bag of orijen my dog was on gave him the runs.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

So... if Diamond isn't "so bad", why do they do everything they can to try to mask who they are? I mean, seriously, they have Chicken Soup, Diamon, TOTW, Kirkland, 4health, Artemis, etc.... Why don't they just use their own name? That alone is enough for me not to want to even risk screwing with them. They are crap anyways. We stopped feeding Canidae because they allowed Diamond to "package" their food, and our dogs got sick during the whole agenda, so we only deal in dog foods that have NOTHING to do with Diamond whatsoever!!!!





Kev said:


> Just cause a food is made by diamond, you claim it's no good (After reading other threads and your post, it is clear you don't like diamond products) ? Despite the recalls, Kirkland is a not so bad brand. Fed it to my dog for a couple of months before I switched to Orijen LBP and I barely noticed a difference.
> Now I feed raw because the last bag of orijen my dog was on gave him the runs.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Probably because all those companies buy it and like to have their own label on things??


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

VaBeachFamily said:


> So... if Diamond isn't "so bad", why do they do everything they can to try to mask who they are? I mean, seriously, they have Chicken Soup, Diamon, TOTW, Kirkland, 4health, Artemis, etc.... Why don't they just use their own name? That alone is enough for me not to want to even risk screwing with them. They are crap anyways. We stopped feeding Canidae because they allowed Diamond to "package" their food, and our dogs got sick during the whole agenda, so we only deal in dog foods that have NOTHING to do with Diamond whatsoever!!!!


Companies use different brand names to capture different segments of the market. Would you avoid buying a General Motors car because it sells Chevys and Cadilacs but no GM cars? Must be that GM is trying to hide the fact that it makes those brands. 

You should avoid Champion Pet food products then because they must be hiding the fact that they make Acana and Orijen. Why not call both Champion?


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

VaBeachFamily said:


> So... if Diamond isn't "so bad", why do they do everything they can to try to mask who they are? I mean, seriously, they have Chicken Soup, Diamon, TOTW, Kirkland, 4health, Artemis, etc.... Why don't they just use their own name? That alone is enough for me not to want to even risk screwing with them. They are crap anyways. We stopped feeding Canidae because they allowed Diamond to "package" their food, and our dogs got sick during the whole agenda, so we only deal in dog foods that have NOTHING to do with Diamond whatsoever!!!!


I used to push some of those brands and thought highly of many of them. The issue I have is _*trusting*_ the manufacturing of those brands, which is done by Diamond. Sorry, but for me those violations that Diamond got *after* the recall just sang out loud and clear that they don't give a crap. I believe trust is the No. 1 thing about what I fed Tony. I have started feeding more home cooked vs kibble lately after reading about the amount of bone that Tyson puts in their meal. Champion does not get their meal from Tyson, but I am sure most meal has more bone in it than you would like to feed your dog. Lucky for me I found an Asian market that sells frozen fish fillets for 3-4 for 2.75. I been cutting them in half and feeding 1, 2 out of every 3 days. Also lucky for me we have a local butcher who sells pet food meat for 1.65 a pound and beef heart for 1.68 a pound. They also sell chicken hearts and other parts even cheaper. They every now and then have Turkey parts for really good prices including turkey legs.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Tony, exactly. I am just saying, GM never hides that they make Chevy, but I can walk into the local Pet Store, and they have 4-5 different Diamond brand foods. Almost identical ingredients, different names, and they even try to check information about themselves as far as making the address and phone numbers different! Someone needs to just shut them down or force them to come out about whot hey are. It's horrible, because I have met people who feed foods like Chicken Soup not knowing it is Diamond until the recalls includes them.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

Here is the lasted news on Diamond getting sued for almost killing a child and I love this statement in the article. This was last month..

If Diamond had operated in compliance with FDA rules, England said, they would appear much less culpable and could use the favorable inspection to bolster their legal cases and public image.


FDA Inspection Likely to Further Implicate Diamond Pet Foods


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## Monster'sDad (Jul 29, 2012)

Zookeep said:


> Companies use different brand names to capture different segments of the market. Would you avoid buying a General Motors car because it sells Chevys and Cadilacs but no GM cars? Must be that GM is trying to hide the fact that it makes those brands.
> 
> You should avoid Champion Pet food products then because they must be hiding the fact that they make Acana and Orijen. Why not call both Champion?


Zookeep,

How many people really know what goes on at Champiom. From where I sit, the company is as shady as Diamond. Read this:

*"Hi everyone,

I'm from Sydney Australia and I was one of the owners whose cat was affected by the irradiated Orijen cat food in 2008. I'm the person that applied to the Australian Government to obtain the documents under the Freedom of Information Act to which an earlier poster referred . I'm not here to get into a debate (which is what usually happens when I enter a thread like this and post on other boards) about whether the Australian Government were to blame or whether Champion Petfoods were to blame for what happened to the cats. I can, though, provide some information about Champion Petfoods and I am particularly sorry to hear about something which seems to have happened to a dog on here called Satch, who is absolutely huggable. What a gorgeous face he has.

I was also interested to read the link posted above to Bedford Capital and thanks to the poster for providing that. I gathered there had been some changes at Champion and figured Muhlenfeld Snr had stood down/retired but hadn't got to the bottom of it. That was useful thanks. I've been following the "smokestacks" story quite closely in the various Edmonton newspapers online. Townspeople and the council have been pretty peed off with the stalling tactics, promises unfulfilled and deadlines broken. Their evasiveness and stalling and making all the right noises and being slow to follow through that is happening with the "smell" issue was exactly the same behaviour to which they subjected the cat owners in Australia. They delayed recalling the product for around three months as they just didn't want to believe it was their food. Meanwhile, while they prevaricated and travelled back and forth and talked to vets, more people were buying the product and feeding it to their cats. As the disease took about 3 months of feeding before it manifested, it meant that owners were unwittingly poisoning their cats even while Champion knew there was some kind of problem. They were very pedestrian about the whole affair and eventually there was a "voluntary recall" and they left the Australian market altogether. This made it very difficult to take legal action and their importer, a one-man-band, went to ground and was fiercely told by Champion to refer all enquiries on the topic to them. So he was unable to be sued as well, he would have just wound down his business. Believe me I worked on it for months and tried every angle. Some of us spent thousands of dollars on our cats and only got back from Champion's "compassion fund" a percentage of the outlay. This was particularly upsetting for those whose cats had died or who had them euthanised after expensive MRI scans and other investigative techniques without any diagnosis, in the early days before the link to the food was found. My cat was one of the "lucky" ones. She survived but has completely lost the use of her back legs and has a wheelchair and I have to toilet her 2-3 times daily. She's otherwise healthy now, but it's been a long, long haul and fights with Quarantine / Federal Govt etc. We managed to get cat food irradiation stopped though after many months of lobbying and providing scientific evidence of studies proving the link between irradiated cat food and demyelinisation of the long nerves causing paralysis.

The first of these studies was published in Ireland in 2007 and it is to the Australian Government's shame that they were not on the ball enough to be following the science in areas to do with such a controversial treatment as irradiation. So the studies were out there in 2007 yet the import licence for Orijen pet food was issued in 2008 under the condition of irradiation. I could write reams about my correspondence with the Australian Govt on this topic, I pursued them for nearly two years but they have good lawyers and deep pockets and are protected by legislation. I went to the Ombudsman and only last month was that finally resolved - the Ombudsman's office did their best for me but any claim for compensation has been knocked back yet again. They like to keep saying they relied on recommendations by the World Health Organisation. So the WHO is the next on my list.

Back to Champion: Yes they like to say their product is all fresh Canadian produce, as one poster has observed it's as if some guys go out in oilskins every day personally catching the fish for them from these fresh Canadian streams. Well, as the FOI documents show, there was a supplier of render from Kentucky for the manufacture of Orijen. I expect most readers would be aware of what goes into render.

On the night my cat was diagnosed, by which time the food had been recalled and the vets knew the cause, I rang Peter Muhlenfeld and had a discussion with him for over an hour about the sequence of events. He told me over and over they did not know their product had been irradiated until it was on Australian retail shelves and they got the invoices from their Australian importer for thousands of dollars and asked "what is this for" and were told it was for irradiation. He swore the first they knew of it was in August 2008 when those invoices arrived on his desk. This was why I applied for the shipping documents under FOI. The documents show email exchanges between their Australian importer, called Roland Lobo and Australian Quarantine. Quarantine clearly spell out the requirements and the options: the food must undergo further treatment before entry to Australia because the cooking temperature during manufacture is too low (risk of exotic pathogens entering Australia) and must be further moist heat treated or irradiated in order for an import licence to be granted. Moist heat is unsuitable for dried kibble so two options remain: irradiate or withdraw application for import licence (go away and forget importing the product into Australia). Let's be clear about this - this isn't a case of a shipment being sent all the way from Canada and sitting in Sydney port in 2008 and Australian Quarantine refusing to release it unless they irradiate it, this is August 2007 and Roland Lobo is finding out what he has to do to import the product ahead of time. Quarantine have told him it is the importer's responsibilty to check that irradiation is suitable for their product. It is the first Friday in August 2007. By early the following week Roland is back emailing Quarantine to say Champion have agreed to the irradiation. Evidently they took a weekend to research the issue and think about it.

What I am saying is that Peter Muhlenfeld told me they didn't know anything about the irradiation until August 2008. And yet the documents show that Roland had discussed irradiation with them in August 2007. Whether those discussions were by telephone or by email I do not know. the only documents I have are those from the Government, not the private commercial documents between importer and manufacturer.

Champion were extremely difficult to deal with throughout the whole process, kept ignoring us in the hope we'd go away, made promises they clearly weren't going to keep without us writing and phoning and shaming them far and wide over the internet into keeping and washed their hands of us all just six months after the recall, many of us left with ongoing expenses or considerable financial loss and dead cats.

Would I trust this company to go down the road and buy me a loaf of bread?

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions."*


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

VaBeachFamily said:


> So... if Diamond isn't "so bad", why do they do everything they can to try to mask who they are? I mean, seriously, they have Chicken Soup, Diamon, TOTW, Kirkland, 4health, Artemis, etc.... Why don't they just use their own name?


They don't use their own name because they don't own those other brands, they are contracted to manufacture the food for those companies. Many brands are too small to be able to own their own manufacturing plant, so it's quite common for them to contract it out, and not just pet food, but human food too. Trader Joes doesn't make or package the food they sell under their label, and neither do supermarkets that have house brands, they have another company do that for them. That's just how things are done.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Diamond definitely owns Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul, and Taste of the Wild. I am not 100% sure about the store brands or Premium Edge, though I know that if you e-mail customer support for the Costco brands the reply you get comes directly from Diamond so I would guess they essentially own those brands as well but have a deal with Costco for the food to be sold exclusively through them (same probably applies to 4Health with TSC).


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## Monster'sDad (Jul 29, 2012)

Ken Clean-Air System said:


> Diamond definitely owns Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul, and Taste of the Wild. I am not 100% sure about the store brands or Premium Edge, though I know that if you e-mail customer support for the Costco brands the reply you get comes directly from Diamond so I would guess they essentially own those brands as well but have a deal with Costco for the food to be sold exclusively through them (same probably applies to 4Health with TSC).


Premium Edge and Professional are Diamond brands too.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

Ken, Diamond does not OWN them, they just contract Diamond to manufacture their dog food. Now, I have a feeling things are about to change. Especially, if a dog food company wants to stay on the high end, because Diamond isn't capable of manufacturing a high end, anything..


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## Monster'sDad (Jul 29, 2012)

3ToesTonyismydog said:


> Ken, Diamond does not OWN them, they just contract Diamond to manufacture their dog food. Now, I have a feeling things are about to change. Especially, if a dog food company wants to stay on the high end, because Diamond isn't capable of manufacturing a high end, anything..


Have you been to Diamond's Meta or Cali plant? Those two make the Champion plant look like a NYC hot dog cart.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> They don't use their own name because they don't own those other brands, they are contracted to manufacture the food for those companies. Many brands are too small to be able to own their own manufacturing plant, so it's quite common for them to contract it out, and not just pet food, but human food too. Trader Joes doesn't make or package the food they sell under their label, and neither do supermarkets that have house brands, they have another company do that for them. That's just how things are done.


:thumbup:


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Does anyone here have a Costco membership?Well if you do I have a suggestion on dog food.=)
> My mom's friend's daughter works for a service dog organization that trains dogs to help the disable.They use the dog food at Costco, Kirkland Dog Food(thats the Costco brand).It helps reduce and prevent acid in the dogs stomach, so when the dog goes to the bathroom it won't kill the grass.Since there aren't very many Costcos on the East coast they ship it out there to there organizations.My mom's friend recomended this food to us, because we are trying to re-grow our lawn in the backyard.My dogs love this food.Moll & Tanner will literally push their way to the food container to get it, and when I give them their full bowl, they gobble it right up.=)lol.
> 
> So if you are trying to re-grow your lawn or just want another brand of dog food thats good for your dog, I suggest Kirkland Dog Food at Costco.


This stuff makes my dogs' poo smell horrible (not that it already didn't smell bad in the first place). I'm not sure of the quality. My dogs like it but I don't think I will stick to it...

Our lawn has yellow spots of grass where the dogs poo and pee on a regular basis...I haven't seen it regrow while using this product  

I'm glad it works for you though!


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

You can't base something on that. I mean, seriously, the local Ford plant was spectacular, but it didn't stop the Explorer from having the worst transmission I have ever seen. I make almost all of my family's meals from scratch, in my little ol' kitchen, but does that mean because Mrs. Collanders has better Chicken Pot Pie, just because the factory is huge? Diamond sells so many foods under false pretenses that I imagine they CAN afford huge factories, which is why they slack off in buying quality ingredients!




Monster'sDad said:


> Have you been to Diamond's Meta or Cali plant? Those two make the Champion plant look like a NYC hot dog cart.


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## Monster'sDad (Jul 29, 2012)

VaBeachFamily said:


> You can't base something on that. I mean, seriously, the local Ford plant was spectacular, but it didn't stop the Explorer from having the worst transmission I have ever seen. I make almost all of my family's meals from scratch, in my little ol' kitchen, but does that mean because Mrs. Collanders has better Chicken Pot Pie, just because the factory is huge? Diamond sells so many foods under false pretenses that I imagine they CAN afford huge factories, which is why they slack off in buying quality ingredients!


Yes I can. I am no fan of Diamond's but to compare Champion's expertise in manufacturing and its "plant" to Diamond's like 3Toes did is a joke. Champion has had more quality control issues than Diamond but the scale of Diamond's are of course larger. My friend who is an expert in food manufacturing calls Champion, Chumpion.


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## VicTheGermanShepherd (Aug 17, 2012)

I use diamond products for my dogs...including the kirklands...no problems here. Shiny coats..poop stinks no matter what you feed the dogs...its poop


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