# Herm Sprenger Black plated and K9 Vehicle Inserts



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Has anyone used the black plated Herm Sprenger collars? Do they wear well?

Herm Sprenger Black plated, Stainless Steel pinch collar-Elite K-9


Also wondering if anyone has any experience with this product in any type of vehicle, or has seen one in person? I wonder if the dogs get enough air flow and if there is enough room for two full grown males. I see they sell dividers. Pretty pricey, but if they would work, I might just start saving up for one. 

Havis Tahoe K-9 Insert-Elite K-9


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Not sure what is different about the black plated vs normal prong collar, but HS is a very reputable brand in the prong collar market. I have one as well as a Pet Smart brand and reach for the HS consistently. Rarely do I use the Pet Smart one. In fact, I only use it if I can't find the HS one... :thumbup:


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

wildo said:


> Not sure what is different about the black plated vs normal prong collar, but HS is a very reputable brand in the prong collar market. I have one as well as a Pet Smart brand and reach for the HS consistently. Rarely do I use the Pet Smart one. In fact, I only use it if I can't find the HS one... :thumbup:


I have a HS and really like it, but I wanted to try the configuration with the prongs going two ways. I really like the Curogan, but I couldn't find one in that configuration without the quick release. I think the black plated looks cool, but I wonder if it will peel after a while.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Police use inserts like that but their dogs are full time......and they are vehicle make /model specific I think

If you can afford it.........

They usually leave the cars running though with the AC going, dogs in them and a temperature alarm system. They are permenentaly installed. They are only designed to fit certain vehicle models.

I think two full grown males could be pretty cramped.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

I think the insert system that you have listed is designed to be mounted permanently in the vehilce. It's not a "put it in to use it and then take it out when you want your back seat" system.
I'm sure someone makes a system that you can use as needed but most of those are for the back end of the vehicle.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> Police use inserts like that but their dogs are full time......and they are vehicle make /model specific I think
> 
> If you can afford it.........
> 
> ...


I wouldn't need to put it in and take it out, but would probably need to take it out if I were going to sell the vehicle. The one I linked to would fit in my current vehicle. 

Not being big enough would be an issue though.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Isnt a tahoe an SUV? WHy not just put two crates in the back?


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I've had black-plated fursavers, and the black plating does wear/chip off over time to show the silver collar underneath. Same with the "antique" ones.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

phgsd said:


> I've had black-plated fursavers, and the black plating does wear/chip off over time to show the silver collar underneath. Same with the "antique" ones.


Was it a Herm Springer?


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Ruthie said:


> I wanted to try the configuration with the prongs going two ways.


Ah- I didn't see that it was one of those. I also am curious about the two-way prongs. I find that my dog's prong collar does tend to turn around her neck over time, and it seem the two way ones would prevent this.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Ruthie said:


> Was it a Herm Springer?



Yes


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> Isnt a tahoe an SUV? WHy not just put two crates in the back?


They won't fit. At least not ones that are big enough for Bison.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

phgsd said:


> Yes


Mmm... bummer.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Ruthie said:


> I have a HS and really like it, but I wanted to try the configuration with the prongs going two ways.


Bumping this old thread... Ruthie- did you end up buying that prong collar? I actually happened to pick up a HS prong collar in that configuration (prongs going both ways) just today and have to say- I'm a bit concerned about it. No matter where the collar rides, the link where the prongs reverse end up right at my dog's throat. When a correction is given, these two prongs actually pinch together across her throat. I'm not sure I like that much... Here's an illustration:










Do you have a similar experience?


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## neiltus (Mar 10, 2011)

Ruthie said:


> They won't fit. At least not ones that are big enough for Bison.


Go look at KustomKrates.com, they make 2 dog setups for the cargo area of an SUV, and can be customized to size (height or width).

Fair warning, I have one on order from them!


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

wildo said:


> Bumping this old thread... Ruthie- did you end up buying that prong collar? I actually happened to pick up a HS prong collar in that configuration (prongs going both ways) just today and have to say- I'm a bit concerned about it. No matter where the collar rides, the link where the prongs reverse end up right at my dog's throat. When a correction is given, these two prongs actually pinch together across her throat. I'm not sure I like that much... Here's an illustration:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did buy the collar, but have only used it once so far, for a walk. I honestly didn't notice a difference, but I was distracted because I had puppy Grizzly with us and was focusing on training him to not pull or jump on Bison's head. 

I will pay closer attention next time and let you know. I didnt even think about this possibility. Definitely worth looking at though especially before starting to use it for training. Nice illustration.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Maybe I'm reading too much into it... All I know is when I was sizing it, I felt those two prongs to see where they fell. Seems like the literally straddle her throat. I was a bit concerned about that, but it wasn't until I took it off and was playing with it that I noticed those two prongs will actually squeeze _together_ when a correction is given based on the martingale nature of the collar. That's what's concerning. I think I can eliminate this problem by just bending those prongs down a bit... Maybe... Do please update this thread the next time you use it so we can hear your perspective/experience. Thanks!!


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

neiltus said:


> Go look at KustomKrates.com, they make 2 dog setups for the cargo area of an SUV, and can be customized to size (height or width).
> 
> Fair warning, I have one on order from them!


Wow! Those are really cool. Even more expensive, but a girl can dream. :wub:

Are you getting the one with the drawers under? Please post pics when you get it?


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

wildo said:


> Maybe I'm reading too much into it... All I know is when I was sizing it, I felt those two prongs to see where they fell. Seems like the literally straddle her throat. I was a bit concerned about that, but it wasn't until I took it off and was playing with it that I noticed those two prongs will actually squeeze _together_ when a correction is given based on the martingale nature of the collar. That's what's concerning. I think I can eliminate this problem by just bending those prongs down a bit... Maybe... Do please update this thread the next time you use it so we can hear your perspective/experience. Thanks!!


I think it is a valid concern if it ends up pinching the trachea. I suspect it won't be an issue for Bison because he is a large male and the prongs probably aren't big enough to do that on him. A smaller female though... I will post when I check it out tomorrow. 

Maybe others who have this type of collar will pipe in too.


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## neiltus (Mar 10, 2011)

Ruthie said:


> Wow! Those are really cool. Even more expensive, but a girl can dream. :wub:
> 
> Are you getting the one with the drawers under? Please post pics when you get it?


Member Jesusica just got her box from them today, look for a thread called OWENS DOG BOXES in equipment

I am still waiting on mine. I ordered a regular size with roof vents for a yukon. Did not order the storage yet or other box as I will be getting rid of the 02 and buying a new one at some point and will measure to fit new box and storage...

The owner of the crate company works mals and knows his stuff...very good to work with. My breeder has 4-5 of his boxes in a custom van setup, very nice...


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

wildo said:


> Maybe I'm reading too much into it... All I know is when I was sizing it, I felt those two prongs to see where they fell. Seems like the literally straddle her throat. I was a bit concerned about that, but it wasn't until I took it off and was playing with it that I noticed those two prongs will actually squeeze _together_ when a correction is given based on the martingale nature of the collar. That's what's concerning. I think I can eliminate this problem by just bending those prongs down a bit... Maybe... Do please update this thread the next time you use it so we can hear your perspective/experience. Thanks!!


Ok, I finally got a chance to check the prong (Sorry, really busy day yesterday). On Bison, it doesn't grab at the trachea because it lays flat enough, a correction actually flattens it in that area rather than bends it to grab. I don't think it is a problem, but I will keep an eye on it.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

neiltus said:


> Member Jesusica just got her box from them today, look for a thread called OWENS DOG BOXES in equipment
> 
> I am still waiting on mine. I ordered a regular size with roof vents for a yukon. Did not order the storage yet or other box as I will be getting rid of the 02 and buying a new one at some point and will measure to fit new box and storage...
> 
> The owner of the crate company works mals and knows his stuff...very good to work with. My breeder has 4-5 of his boxes in a custom van setup, very nice...


Cool, thanks. I will check out the thread.


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## neiltus (Mar 10, 2011)

wildo said:


> Maybe I'm reading too much into it... All I know is when I was sizing it, I felt those two prongs to see where they fell. Seems like the literally straddle her throat. I was a bit concerned about that, but it wasn't until I took it off and was playing with it that I noticed those two prongs will actually squeeze _together_ when a correction is given based on the martingale nature of the collar. That's what's concerning. I think I can eliminate this problem by just bending those prongs down a bit... Maybe... Do please update this thread the next time you use it so we can hear your perspective/experience. Thanks!!


There is a video on proper placement of a prong collar. It should not be on the neck towards the shoulders. I think this might be what your doing. It should be higher up the neck towards the animals head. Corrections should be upward not backward...

make sense?


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

neiltus said:


> There is a video on proper placement of a prong collar. It should not be on the neck towards the shoulders. I think this might be what your doing. It should be higher up the neck towards the animals head. Corrections should be upward not backward...
> 
> make sense?


The esophagus runs the whole length of the neck. The placement is irrelevant in regards to the issue I am concerned about.



Ruthie said:


> Ok, I finally got a chance to check the prong (Sorry, really busy day yesterday). On Bison, it doesn't grab at the trachea because it lays flat enough, a correction actually flattens it in that area rather than bends it to grab. I don't think it is a problem, but I will keep an eye on it.


I'm not sure I follow you on this. How is it possible that the prong is laying more flat during a correction? That would seem to defy physics... Maybe this animation (hope this works!) will better illustrate my concern. By the way, I think it is the esophagus that runs along the bottom of the neck, not the trachea; I could be wrong on that.


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

Ruthie said:


> Has anyone used the black plated Herm Sprenger collars? Do they wear well?


 
Quick point regarding the description as this strikes me of poor product knowledge by the vendor and it's worth correcting before it's copied and pasted all over.

The black stainless steel isn't a plated finish. The colour is achieved during the smelting and is throughout the metal. If you cut a black stainless steel link in half it's black all the way through.

As far as how it wears, just the same as the normal stainless steel. If you're wondering how long until the black finish wears off, never.

regards,

LMD


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

wildo said:


> The esophagus runs the whole length of the neck. The placement is irrelevant in regards to the issue I am concerned about.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I follow you on this. How is it possible that the prong is laying more flat during a correction? That would seem to defy physics... Maybe this animation (hope this works!) will better illustrate my concern. By the way, I think it is the esophagus that runs along the bottom of the neck, not the trachea; I could be wrong on that.


The constriction is limited by the martingale section of the collar. In order to squeeze as you have depicted in this animation would require the collar to constrict further than the martingale will allow.

It's possible to achieve this simulation of you unclipped the two bottom links and pivoted them around the centre plate, you can't achieve this with the collar complete.

The scale is also out by a considerable margin. Based on that neck size to the size of the links, the collar would only contain around 4 links, that would be like sizing a 4.0mm collar to a 12" neck, the collar would be so inadequate you just wouldn't do it.

Anatomically it's also not correct, the skin would be collected by the links and slide off the esophagus which is oblong and not round as pictured, you're also omitting the muscle. This scenario wouldn't be replicated during use, the mechanics of the collar simply won't allow it.


regards,

LMD


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

phgsd said:


> I've had black-plated fursavers, and the black plating does wear/chip off over time to show the silver collar underneath. Same with the "antique" ones.


 
The original incarnation was a black galvanised collar which went out of production in 2010 and was a plated finish just like the antique collars, or the chrome, or the nickel. The black stainless steel is a forged metal, the colour is achieved in the smelting and runs throughout the metal like the usual stainless steel, curogan or brass collars. The 3.2mm buckle prong collar was the first collar available with this metal, the subsequent martingale version was made on our request, then followed by the fur savers and fine link chains which have only been available for a couple of months.

regards,

LMD


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I had a couple of HS black plated ones and they wore off quickly - don't even know where they are now...they were the cheap nickle ones underneath...the antiques have held up much better....

If there is an actual black SS one now - I would give it a try as well!

the animation above reminds me of a Tom Thumb/Argentine "snaffle" bit - most people assumed they were a mild bit, when in fact, they were like a nutcracker on the mouth....wouldn't own one, and probably would not want a prong one like this either...

Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Looked at the link from the OP - looks like you have a choice between Stainless steel and Black Plated....for 40 bucks...I would not waste my $$ on the black as it specifically says "PLATED"...and it will wear off...

Lee


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I have black herm sprengers... They wear amazingly well. 5 months of heavy use and not a scratch. Believe it is anodized. Looks like a gum barrel more than any typ of coating


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> Looked at the link from the OP - looks like you have a choice between Stainless steel and Black Plated....for 40 bucks...I would not waste my $$ on the black as it specifically says "PLATED"...and it will wear off...
> 
> Lee


 
Hi Lee,

We have a handful of the black galvanised (plated) links left in stock, as for black "plated" collars, no. Which collars were you looking at that stated they were plated?

regards,

LMD


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> The constriction is limited by the martingale section of the collar. In order to squeeze as you have depicted in this animation would require the collar to constrict further than the martingale will allow.
> 
> It's possible to achieve this simulation of you unclipped the two bottom links and pivoted them around the centre plate, you can't achieve this with the collar complete.
> 
> ...


Yeah... ok... I am pretty sure the point of the animation had nothing to do with being drawn to scale. In fact, I don't really take much stock in anything you've pointed out here- as I think you have missed the point entirely. Thanks anyway. For me, since you know- I actually have this prong and have felt its alignment on my dog- you know- in person and all- I don't think I'll be using it. What a shame. Wish I would have spotted this issue before wasting my money on it.

Oblong, not round...? Are you kidding me? Who cares. Not even close to the point.


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

*Perhaps asking instead of telling?*

So what is your point then? It's obviously not one of accuracy so yes, I did miss it.

There is an alternative to "wasting your money" and means "won't be using the collar" can be resolved very easily. Why not just unclip the top fixed link, remove the bottom plate, turn the 4 removed links around and change the collar back into the ultra style which you're no doubt familiar with?

regards,

LMD


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Well clearly you are a reseller, so of course you won't say anything negative about the product. Never the less, a properly adjusted collar for my dog is pictured here:









And totally "limited" by the martingale action, not to mention the fact that there is a 70 pound dog *pushing against* the front of the collar:









I have no issue with using a standard prong but I feel this one is unsafe. I've stated my case and have nothing to prove to you. Good luck with your sales...

(By the way, it doesn't seem that you can get one of the links that attach to the martingale pieces without ruining it. They don't appear removable.)


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

**sigh**

Being a reseller has nothing to do with it, if I don't like a product I'll say so. If there's a better made collar out there we'd sell that instead, but we've not found it. Likewise I'm not a puppet who spouts marketing and a tows a company line, I can think for myself and express my own opinion

Look at the size of the gap in the two bottom prongs, then look at the diagram again, there's a considerable difference, hence the scale issue is very important. In addition, the shape is distorted when compared to being on the dogs neck, it only makes a slight difference, but still increases the gap even further. The number of links will also alter the size of the gap...more on that in a moment.

All the links are removable. Unclip the bottom links from the centre plate, then unclip them from the top link. The top link will then swivel around and can be removed (that's how it was put in....). Remove the centre plate entirely, then clip the prong links back in place as normal, and through the triangular yoke, presto, an ultra collar. As a quick bit of product info, the part number on the tag will be 50105 010 02, it should have 10 prongs, looks like 2 have been removed. Converting it back to an ultra style will be a final size of around 19" and 7 links so if you add one of the removed links back in it will be half an inch shorter than the ultra plus. and measure around 20".


You're welcome btw.


regards,

LMD


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## RoseRegn (Feb 17, 2010)

wildo said:


> (By the way, it doesn't seem that you can get one of the links that attach to the martingale pieces without ruining it. They don't appear removable.)


Just wanted to say that I have a HS Curogan Prong Collar just like yours and that while I do agree with LuvMyDog_Worldwide, if you don't like the new style you can change it back to the old style if you want without damaging/altering any of the pieces.

Hopefully my pictures make sense. If they're too confusing I can try to do a video instead. :blush:

Step 1: Get your collar.
Step 2: Disconnect as shown.
Step 3: Remove the "SPRENGER" plate thing, and turn the links the other way.
Step 4: Slide the one link off the martingale piece.
Step 5: Put together! (Store link and plate in a safe place should you need/want them later)

Edit: Ah, LuvMyDog_Worldwide posted while I was putting this together. :blush:


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Oh geez. I was trying to _turn_ the link off of the martingale piece. Duh- it just comes straight off... :hammer:


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

Very well done Rose, my plan was also to do a photo example when I got to the office in the morning, likewise you'd done it already.

regards,

LMD


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