# To not tear my arm muscles walking



## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

This is going to be a bit of a rant. I think I've had it with ever getting Titon to walk on a leash civilly. There's just no hope.

I went to the mountains this afternoon where there is a section that requires on-leash before you get to the off-leash section. Let's say, I was injured on the way TO the off leash section.

Titon pulled, twisted, whined, jumped and acted like bloody murder when I stood like a tree because of his pulling not once but several times. Take one step, leash is loose and whatever slack there is he'll take advantage of it till I stop and pull him back. This went on for an hour because I just could NOT have him pulling to the end of the leash. This is how I was injured today. He tore the muscles in my arm just on the back of my arm pit. 

I have tried all I know to get this behavior to stop. Prong collars, walk easy harnesses, martingale colors, etc. He has NO desire to or clue that walking easy will get him AND I to where we need to go. 

This needs to stop or we're never going for walks, hikes, etc. again.

I'm royally pissed off.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Run him, play fetch before going out on a hike? Does he get much off leash exercise?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Erich, check out my posts on this thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...se-critique-my-training-method-will-work.html

It can take a lot of time and patience to teach leash skills, especially with an older dog that's already big and strong and who has developed bad habits that need to be fixed. But you can do it!

I didn't spend nearly enough time teaching Keefer to walk nicely on leash when he was younger, but I vowed to not make that mistake again with Halo. I started when she was young, just kept plugging away at it, and I pretty much had to ditch the idea of "going for a walk" in the meantime. Now she's fabulous on leash, and guess what? Keefer is MUCH better too! I used the same techniques with him that were successful with Halo, and although I did most of that early leash training with her on a flat collar, I used a prong with him because that was the only way I'd have enough control if he decided not to cooperate. 

If you look at the links I provided, some of this stuff is foundation work that you can do around the house. Once you've made progress there, try it in a slightly more distracting environment such as in your yard.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I have never found the standing in one position or repeated turning around and praying my dog knocks it off to work. I use a prong collar and teach my dog to not pull. I use the collar as a training device and actively use it. I have never had a dog come through here that I haven't been able to teach to walk nicely on a leash within a couple of minutes.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

I meant on the way from the off leash area where he had already romped around for 3 hours chasing ball, playing, etc. So he should have been really worn out. I think it was a combination of me being frustrated and him being worn out that caused a rift.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Run him, play fetch before going out on a hike? Does he get much off leash exercise?


I run with him every morning at 5am in preparation for a half marathon I am training for. 

He's off leash all the time.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Ironically, when I stopped like a tree, turned around and walked the other direction... He was perfect on leash. Turn back around to go the right way, the **** begins. Stop, turn around and head the opposite direction, it starts good again. 

I'm going to get out the prong. This behavior is going to stop and I mean now. I'm leader, therefore I rule this pack.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If you pop the prong collar it should get the message thru to him. I'm opposite of you, I don't mind my dog pulling when we are on a long hike, it is muscle building for both of us, though I am really sore the next day. My dog is always off leash(other than the public hiking trail). When they jolt you, thats where injuries to both dog and handler happen.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

I get to the point where I get frustrated and just let him off leash anyways but they this is re-enforcing his behavior to get what he wants and I want it to stop. This area isn't exactly flat, I'm looking at 25-30 feet straight down drop off cliffs with very narrow paths.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

going down, a line can be dangerous, I wouldn't expect him to be on leash during that time.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Zoe was my hardest dog to train to walk nice on leash so I feel your pain believe me. And if it makes you feel better all the sudden she is back to pulling again after months of being so good...very annoying. Today she almost pulled me down to get to the field where we run off leash and I gave her quite the correction which did nothing but make her stop for about a split second and continue to pull She is always fine on the walk back though after she is worn out so Titon must take the cake, but remember he still loves you,lol


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Now he's being all cuddly like Daddy is the best person in his life and nothing ever happened today. Me, not so cuddly with a torn muscle. 

Back to the prong collar we'll go. He'll learn very quick that Daddy has had enough of his antics.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

Daisy is the same way (only I wont try a prong collar, I think it is mean, not to mention the fact that she will pull till she passes out so I doubt the prongs will get through to her) She is only about 42lbs, but being an Alaskan husky, she pulls as if she was 70-80lbs. It hurts. Often my hand has lost circulation by the end of the walk because Im holding on so tight. It hurts my arms, legs, all over just to keep her semi in control. The only upside is that after 2 years of walking her, she now behaves 50% of the time, when we are almost home (lol)


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

vicky2200 said:


> Daisy is the same way (only I wont try a prong collar, I think it is mean, not to mention the fact that she will pull till she passes out so I doubt the prongs will get through to her) She is only about 42lbs, but being an Alaskan husky, she pulls as if she was 70-80lbs. It hurts. Often my hand has lost circulation by the end of the walk because Im holding on so tight. It hurts my arms, legs, all over just to keep her semi in control. The only upside is that after 2 years of walking her, she now behaves 50% of the time, when we are almost home (lol)


A prong collar is a training collar and is not meant to be used passively like this. A lot of dogs are perfectly capable of tightening their neck muscles and continue to pull all they want. 

Used correctly, it is absolutely not mean. You are supposed to give snap collar corrections - sometimes very hard corrections, depending on how badly your dog is behaving - so your dog never has a tight leash. This is much better for the dog and the handler than letting the dog drag you around and cutting off the circulation in your hands.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

I dont believe in scaring or hurting the dog for corrections, that is why I dont use E-collars either.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Just to be sure, do I use the outside ring or both rings together to start with?

-E


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

vicky2200 said:


> I dont believe in scaring or hurting the dog for corrections, that is why I dont use E-collars either.


And you don't think "pulling til she passes out" is hurting her or mean? I'm all for using whatever is needed to get through to the dog. Personally, I'd rather have a dog on a pinch collar then a choke collar any day. Any training tool can be used wrong and when improperly used then yes they can be mean and cruel, however when used properly they can be very useful. 

Also prong collars don't really hurt the dog. Wrap a prong around your arm and tighten it, it's an even pressure and doesn't really hurt you do quick corrections your not jerking the dog across a room or something and dogs are always biting each others necks momma does it to the pups etc.. pretty common to have a bunch of "teeth" around the neck for a dog and definitely gets the "you screwed up" message across pretty clearly for them.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Elaine said:


> I have never found the standing in one position or repeated turning around and *praying my dog knocks it off to work.*


Well, of course not. Who would advocate something so silly?


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## smdaigle (Mar 14, 2008)

vicky2200 said:


> Daisy is the same way (only I wont try a prong collar, I think it is mean, not to mention the fact that she will pull till she passes out so I doubt the prongs will get through to her)


This is exactly why we went to a prong collar with our first GSD. She was difficult to control on a choke collar and our trainer finally convinced me to try the prong collar. Until we tried it, I thought the same thing that you do - that it was mean and would probably hurt the dog. However, Retta was pulling so hard anyway that I finally realized that one of us was going to get hurt unless I did something different so I tried it. 

With the other three dogs we never used a choke collar - just used a flat collar until they were old enough to use a prong collar for training. I've rarely given much if any correction with the prong - it's just there providing gentle pressure when needed. We only use it during walks or when training.


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Start with using both rings to keep it as a dead position. If using it in the dead position it wont close the gap when pulled. If your dog still doesnt listen then go to the active ring only and try again. Be sure to use a quick correction and release so they understand what you want. 

Also make sure it is properly positioned on the dog it should be up close to the ears. I generally have to put it on my GSD and pull all his neck out from under it to make sure it is up in the proper position. He as a ton of neck/hair that he is still growing into if I dont pull it all out underneath his collar he doesnt feel the corrections properly. He also knows that when the collar goes on we are training. Both my dogs know prong collars on we will be walking at the heel until mommy takes the leashes off. A few weeks of everyday heeling in the collar will do wonders. Also teach a verbal command when walking to keep them in the position you want. So do the collar correction and the verbal command. Mine is either heel or foos depending on if we are working english or german commands that day. Now all I have to say is the verbal and both correct their positions. Good luck just takes time and consistent practice.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

TitonsDad said:


> Just to be sure, do I use the outside ring or both rings together to start with?
> 
> -E


You only want to use one of the rings so the collar will tighten like a martengale, my prong collar has one ring that is made to hook the leash to, it's shaped different then the other and is made to turn so the collar doesn't get twisted and releases right.

I used a prong on Frank to teach him leash manners, I can walk him anywhere now, I do believe in making a good sharp correction with the prong not just letting them pull on it to self correct. 
You need to match the correction sharpness to the strength of the pulling, when Frank hit about 8 months and 70 pounds he was pulling so hard one day the prong wasn't making any difference, so I braced my self and let him run to the end of the leash full force (I'd had enough and some would say it was mean ) he hit the end of the leash the collar popped him good, I think I had to do that twice and from then on out if he starts actting excieted on a leash walk all I have to do is stand still and he'll come back sit next to me like oops I was pulling HUH, and that's with any collar now. He's big enough now at a year to easily pull me no matter what collar he would have on but he doesnt'.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I dont use the 'stand like a tree" method either,,I have always used the turn and go in the opposite direction,,believe you me, it can get DIZZYING , but I have found if your really consistent about it when training, it does work. (using a prong) 

I also started in a quiet place where things aren't so amped up and the dog wants to GO THERE NOW...then continued on with more distractions.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

TitonsDad - I can hear the frustration in these posts - I have a temper and have to drop the leash when I am like this - when I am like, I WILL TEACH THIS DOG A LESSON kind of thing - I have to walk away. Because I am not going to teach them anything other than that lady is a maniac butthole. I have to watch this - you may get the end result in terms of performance - for a while anyway - but you lose so much more. 

Have you gone to obedience classes with him? I would sign up for an adult dog class. Go and let someone else help you with the parts that lead to that frustration. I can see him getting this a lot better with a mix of positive and corrections. 

He is frustrated (hey, I run half a marathon in the am buddy, and I don't need no steenking leashes) and you are too - a recipe for a bad turn in your relationship. Go to classes, take the pressure off of you.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> TitonsDad - I can hear the frustration in these posts - I have a temper and have to drop the leash when I am like this - when I am like, I WILL TEACH THIS DOG A LESSON kind of thing - I have to walk away. Because I am not going to teach them anything other than that lady is a maniac butthole. I have to watch this - you may get the end result in terms of performance - for a while anyway - but you lose so much more.
> 
> Have you gone to obedience classes with him? I would sign up for an adult dog class. Go and let someone else help you with the parts that lead to that frustration. I can see him getting this a lot better with a mix of positive and corrections.
> 
> He is frustrated (hey, I run half a marathon in the am buddy, and I don't need no steenking leashes) and you are too - a recipe for a bad turn in your relationship. Go to classes, take the pressure off of you.


1) I am a full blooded German. My temper and fuse is very short. Kinda hard to be in this situation and give up on him when things get heated because it can get even worse for me. A ticket from Animal control for Titon being off leash (due to me dropping the leash and letting him go) in an on leash area, etc.

2) I did go to obedience classes with him but have not since I moved to SLC. I am getting back into training. No worries on that part. 

3) I know that this frustration on both of our parts was just a recipe for disaster. Hope it has no long lasting effects. I was frustrated because I was sore from marathon running in the morning, having to walk up hill with a 77lb dog pulling and not to mention down hill torture on my thighs as well + him pulling. Now, I've got a ripped muscle in my back. Overall, a VERY bad day. There was no positive energy going anywhere. 

*Sigh* I still love him though at times, I want to be the one screaming bloody murder and chasing him around the yard with a hockey mask and axe. (J/K) :wub:


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I call your full German and raise it with half German-half Italian. I. am. scary. :rofl: 

Seriously though I didn't mean literally drop the leash, but mentally. I will just stop myself and get on home or get to where I can put the dog away. It works a lot better - I learned on my poor first dog who I trained with the more compulsive methods that just seem to bring out my most negative aspects.  I will always regret that because HE was smarter than ME and I lost every time I tried to use might over right. So did he. I was lucky that he bounced back too. 

I am glad you were so understanding of my post and I think if you just keep a good sense of humor, be aware of your feelings more than his behavior, and keep training you will be able to look back with pride at what you are accomplishing and not the regrets that I still have for my initial work with my wonderful dog.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I call your full German and raise it with half German-half Italian. I. am. scary. :rofl:
> 
> Seriously though I didn't mean literally drop the leash, but mentally. I will just stop myself and get on home or get to where I can put the dog away. It works a lot better - I learned on my poor first dog who I trained with the more compulsive methods that just seem to bring out my most negative aspects.  I will always regret that because HE was smarter than ME and I lost every time I tried to use might over right. So did he. I was lucky that he bounced back too.
> 
> I am glad you were so understanding of my post and I think if you just keep a good sense of humor, be aware of your feelings more than his behavior, and keep training you will be able to look back with pride at what you are accomplishing and not the regrets that I still have for my initial work with my wonderful dog.


I don't know if an Irish/French temper counts but I had some success with wrapping the leash around me and saying "Pull all you want, it doesn't bother me a bit." That seemed to break the habit, smart dog learned fast who the pace-setter was. But my dog only weighs 70 pounds and I weigh 190. (My marathon days are ancient history.)


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> I don't know if an Irish/French temper counts but I had some success with wrapping the leash around me and saying "Pull all you want, it doesn't bother me a bit." That seemed to break the habit, smart dog learned fast who the pace-setter was. But my dog only weighs 70 pounds and I weigh 190. (My marathon days are ancient history.)


 
I tried that. That's when he started howling, whining and drawing attention to his "abuse" from me.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

For my GSDs, using a prong (or anything really - halty, Easy Walk...) as a "self-correcting" device is useless. They will just pull into it harder. If I'm going to use any sort of aversive device, then I need to have the balls to actually correct the dog with it.

One thing that has worked for me as more of a self-correcting device (and for Nikon this actually works better for walking than a prong) is using a longer leash to make a sort of restrictive harness around the dog's waist. As the dog pulls, it tightens, and is not so comfortable in this area. You don't have to spend $25, watch a DVD, and work with a gazillion buckles and straps either. You just clip the leash to a normal collar, run it down the dog's back, under the waist and back up and around, pull it through, and voila. It's like tying your leash in a knot with the dog in the middle, if that makes sense. I learned this at dock diving, where dogs are only allowed to wear flat collars and of course pull like the dickens b/c they're so excited to compete. Some handlers showed me how they do this to get their dogs out to the dog without pulling them down on the slippery wet surfaces.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

I'm trying to picture that but it's not working. Clip the leash to the collar, go down the dog's back and between the legs or to the left befor the legs and wrap under and back up?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Let me find a willing model and I will demonstrate....


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Liesje said:


> Let me find a willing model and I will demonstrate....


:spittingcoffee:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Try some of the Silky Leash stuff, it teaches the dog that collar pressure is a cue to move in that direction, releasing the pressure, instead of of pulling against it which is instinctive. You can work on that around the house, sitting down! You'll be able to direct your dog with the lightest touch on the leash once he gets it.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

Well I wanted to update this thread...

Decided today that since the weather is finally decent and warm, I would take Titon to the schoolyard and work on some training while also playing ball. (High ball drive + training = awesome). 

So, I decided to get out my HS prong collar and give this a shot with the instructions someone previously posted about making sure that the prongs actually contact skin and move fur around to do so. Also put it high up on his neck per instructions/pics on HS site. 

It worked, 3 pops during our walk and all I had to say was "Easy" and it would ease up and wait for me to be beside him again. Never once tugged, pulled, nothing. I was able to hold the leash with my pinky finger while it dangled. 

What in the world happened??? 

But keep in mind, this was without the roommate's GSD walking with us. I'm going to re-enforce the alone time training first before we get into that part of the book.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

find a trainer and find out what they know.



TitonsDad said:


> I have tried all I know to get this behavior to stop. Prong collars, walk easy harnesses, martingale colors, etc.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

TitonsDad said:


> What in the world happened???


You put your foot down, that's what happened. If he gets out of line, don't be afraid to snap that leash; that's what it's there for. Be very sure that you praise him for not pulling so he knows what he's doing is right.


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

I currently have a torn rotator cuff in which I'm putting off surgery until after my wedding. Leash training Freyja was MISERABLE at first. We use a regular choke chain, nothing too fancy. I would walk her twice a day, and every time she started to pull I would reverse direction and walk 5 paces before turning around. You have to be prepared for the neighbors to ask if everything is OK, lol. I tried the standing still method but that just encouraged her to pull harder as she tried to drag me behind her. Now she walks at a heel and we're working on figure 8's. Next step is off leash heeling.

Edit: I usually use the pop method when leash training, but physical limitations prevented me from doing it this time.


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## ed1911 (Jan 19, 2011)

I am a cajun from south louisiana. When my dogs realized we eat everything that moves in the swamp they stopped acting up and try not to draw any attention to themselves.

But seriously I use choke, prong, and e-collars in training. Prong for a pulling useing a sharp correction usually will do it. I use an e-collar for working off lead in a nonsecure area but very rarely ever have to correct with it.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

TitonsDad said:


> Well I wanted to update this thread...
> 
> Decided today that since the weather is finally decent and warm, I would take Titon to the schoolyard and work on some training while also playing ball. (High ball drive + training = awesome).
> 
> ...


Great Job! :thumbup:


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Liesje said:


> One thing that has worked for me as more of a self-correcting device (and for Nikon this actually works better for walking than a prong) is using a longer leash to make a sort of restrictive harness around the dog's waist.


I kind of do something similar except the leash is drapped infront of the chest like a loop, sometimes I do this when we head out because they usually are so excited they tend to pull.
The other thing that really helped was training my pup that walking along side of me was rewarding, literally. I would call Lakoda's name as soon as she looked I gave her a treat, she still expects me to suprise her with something and I look to find she's in the right position, I give her a smile & praise if I don't have anything. Also circles into the dog on the left side always helped me get the dog to slow down and walk in position. 
My dogs just don't seem to pull when I put a prong on them so it's not even like a self correcting thing. I noticed instead of lounging forward if Lakota sees a squirrel she will bounce up, any other collar on her she'd choke herself pulling.


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## beowolf (Sep 3, 2010)

You need to go back and make a day to day regimen out of a lot of basic obedience training before you see any leash results. He's using the leash to exert a lack of obedience, you need to turn that around before he's going to walk civilly with you in the yard, or out in public. Day to day obedience drills can turn this dogs attitude around that will see improvement on the leash with some basic leash drills in the yard every day. Small steps with the dog until he understands the idea of slack in the leash. With a day to day regimen of intensive obedience work, you can get your dog to behave incredibly well on the leash.


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## beowolf (Sep 3, 2010)

To get the dog to walk on a leash civilly you must first establish a consistent routine of obedience with your dog. You're going to read a lot of fancy books and a lot of expert opinion and a lot of stuff that sounds complicated and means nothing to the dog. If a simple caveman could have a simple dog that listened to him, so can you and it's really simple, it's all about basic obedience. A dog who sits, a dog who stays, a dog who won't even eat his food until you tell him. That's a dog who is going to become a better leash walker than a dog who sleeps on the couch, barks at the doorbell ringing, gets overly excited when he sees you put you shoes on for a walk or getting his food ready. That's not a dog you should just throw a prong collar on and expect results, you need to go back to the basics, establish them firmly with the dog, and then work day by day with the leash in your yard, every day. The dog will soon become manageable on a leash, and then in public he can even be trusted off leash if you train your dog properly.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

beowolf said:


> A dog who sits, -*DONE*
> 
> a dog who stays, - *DONE *
> 
> ...


Anything else you want to throw in there and criticize my training? Because all your advice has been done since he was 8 weeks old and I do it every single day. Thanks but no thanks for the waste of bandwidth.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

i thought about you this morning!!
I left my gentle leader at work but didn't want my dog NOT to go running with me so I grabbed her harness...something we haven't used in ages. UGGHH it's like she completely forgot leash manners. every duck and squirrel she was wrenching me off the path. And like you I am training for a race and I wasted some good hard energy just trying to get her next to me.
i have to be the one blamed though. she grew up in the mountains and didn't even own a collar until she was 5 years old! when we moved to the city I have to put her on a leash to go running in the public areas (she's 7 now) and she doesn't like it or get it. The gentle leader works on her though.

my new puppy WILL NOT BE THIS WAY...and so far isn't lol


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

Liesje said:


> For my GSDs, using a prong (or anything really - halty, Easy Walk...) as a "self-correcting" device is useless. They will just pull into it harder. If I'm going to use any sort of aversive device, then I need to have the balls to actually correct the dog with it.
> 
> One thing that has worked for me as more of a self-correcting device (and for Nikon this actually works better for walking than a prong) is using a longer leash to make a sort of restrictive harness around the dog's waist. As the dog pulls, it tightens, and is not so comfortable in this area. You don't have to spend $25, watch a DVD, and work with a gazillion buckles and straps either. You just clip the leash to a normal collar, run it down the dog's back, under the waist and back up and around, pull it through, and voila. It's like tying your leash in a knot with the dog in the middle, if that makes sense. I learned this at dock diving, where dogs are only allowed to wear flat collars and of course pull like the dickens b/c they're so excited to compete. Some handlers showed me how they do this to get their dogs out to the dog without pulling them down on the slippery wet surfaces.


I tried doing this (tying the leash around the waist,) and I really wasn't expecting any results. It was like walking a completely different dog. Im not 100% how I feel about it, because it does get pretty tight, but i loosen it several times during the walk and it doesn't seem to harm her. She still acts nutty in the beginning of the walk; barking and even screaming for no apparent reason, but my arm isn't sore! Usually after about 10-15mins I can untie her and walk her normally and she will walk decently (not anywhere near perfect, but manageable.) I would recommend trying this with your dog. Im not sure if Liesje ever showed a video of how to do this, but I took her description as the following: Attach leash to dogs collar or harness as usual. Then run the leash down the dogs back, and wrap around dogs waist. Tie once (like the start of tying your shoes.) Now when your dog pulls it tightens here. I loosen it up as I go because I do not want to cause damage. Hope this helps.


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## beowolf (Sep 3, 2010)

TitonsDad said:


> Anything else you want to throw in there and criticize my training? Because all your advice has been done since he was 8 weeks old and I do it every single day. Thanks but no thanks for the waste of bandwidth.


No need to get testy, my comments weren't aimed directly at you. A lot of people don't have the time required to properly train a dog where the obedience is based on respect. I hear people all the time make excuses but the simple fact is they're not putting the time in. A dog is a full time responsibility and getting a dog under control on a leash is all based on respect and obedience, nothing else. There's no fancy tricks, there's no big secret, there is just you and your dog and if you put the time in and have the patience, he will learn to walk respectfully on a leash when expected of him. Most people don't have the time, and when they find the time they don't have the patience.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

beowolf said:


> No need to get testy, my comments weren't aimed directly at you. A lot of people don't have the time required to properly train a dog where the obedience is based on respect. I hear people all the time make excuses but the simple fact is they're not putting the time in. A dog is a full time responsibility and getting a dog under control on a leash is all based on respect and obedience, nothing else. There's no fancy tricks, there's no big secret, there is just you and your dog and if you put the time in and have the patience, he will learn to walk respectfully on a leash when expected of him. Most people don't have the time, and when they find the time they don't have the patience.


 Agreed.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

how could leash training be miserable if you got your
dog when she was a puppy?



Caitydid255 said:


> I currently have a torn rotator cuff in which I'm putting off surgery until after my wedding. Leash training Freyja was MISERABLE at first.


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