# Fish Oil Dosage and Yogurt



## Ali B.

I'm having a hard time figuring out just how much fish oil and yogurt to give both of our GSD's. We have two females, one is 6 years old (Jasmine) and the other one is 4 months old (Jenna). 

I'm currently giving our 6 yr. old one 1400 mg. capsule with her evening meal and a 500 mg. capsule to our puppy. They each receive one spoonful of yogurt with their evening meal (a smaller spoonful for the puppy). After visiting with our vet today for Jenna's last distemper shot and initial rabies vaccine I asked him about it and he said I wasn't giving them enough fish oil. He said we should be giving them 1,000 mg. for every 10 lbs.! So technically I should be giving Jenna 3500 mg. (she's 35 lbs.) and Jasmine 9,000 mg. (she's 90 lbs.). That seems like an awful lot to me!!!!!!!!! This is the second time he has given me that information (I thought I might have misunderstood him at our last visit). 

Also, is it crucial I give them vitamin E with the fish oil?

Now, on to the yogurt!!! My vet says a spoonful is good or whatever they can tolerate if it doesn't upset their stomach and cause diarrhea with each meal. 

I'd just like some insight from other people who are currently giving fish oil and yogurt to their dogs.

Thanks in advance!!


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## onyx'girl

For fish oil or salmon oil, you can give up to 4000mg daily, split between meals. I've read where some give double that, but I don't see it as necessary.
I give salmon oil as the fish is from blends of fish sources, I'd rather give human grade pure salmon gelcaps. Dogs naturally produce vitamin E, but the oils depletes the E so adding 400iu daily is recommended. I don't buy the salmon oil with E added, look at the label before you buy.
I give a dollop of plain quality brand yogurt daily or fresh(frozen raw green tripe as they both have natural probiotics and the tripe has digestive enzymes as well.
My dogs are rawfed and don't have sensitive stomachs.


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## sable123

Ali B. said:


> I'm having a hard time figuring out just how much fish oil and yogurt to give both of our GSD's. We have two females, one is 6 years old (Jasmine) and the other one is 4 months old (Jenna).
> 
> I'm currently giving our 6 yr. old one 1400 mg. capsule with her evening meal and a 500 mg. capsule to our puppy. They each receive one spoonful of yogurt with their evening meal (a smaller spoonful for the puppy). After visiting with our vet today for Jenna's last distemper shot and initial rabies vaccine I asked him about it and he said I wasn't giving them enough fish oil. He said we should be giving them 1,000 mg. for every 10 lbs.! So technically I should be giving Jenna 3500 mg. (she's 35 lbs.) and Jasmine 9,000 mg. (she's 90 lbs.). That seems like an awful lot to me!!!!!!!!! This is the second time he has given me that information (I thought I might have misunderstood him at our last visit).
> 
> Also, is it crucial I give them vitamin E with the fish oil?
> 
> Now, on to the yogurt!!! My vet says a spoonful is good or whatever they can tolerate if it doesn't upset their stomach and cause diarrhea with each meal.
> 
> I'd just like some insight from other people who are currently giving fish oil and yogurt to their dogs.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!


The probiotics in yogurt are of little value for a dog, although some nice goats milk yogurt is a great source of protein and fat. Pro's for a dog need to be coated so they are not digested to early. Bertes & Nyzmes make good products.

Personally I don't like adding oils to any food because the 3-6-9 balance is very important. It is easier and cheaper to use something like Nupro or K9 Show Stopper. If you have to use an oil use olive oil or natural lard.


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## Jax08

I give Banshee 1000 mg/daily and Jax 2000 mg/daily. I try to find the highest EPA/DHA. That's the important part. I do NOT give O3's in a vegetable form such as olive oil or flax seed. That form (ALA) has to be converted by their body (and ours) into EPA/DHA. A very small percentage of dogs are able to do that. There are studies out there to support that. Dogs are not horses.

As far as yogurt, I have a hard time believing that probiotics in any form have no value and would like to see a study proving that. They are live, good, bacteria. I give a spoonful per day unless I give tripe.

Yes, you can give 1000 mg per 10 lbs. There are studies that support that as well. But how much do they really need? What you need to pay attention to the ratio of O6/O3. Some people say 10:1 is good. Some studies are out saying 3:1.

Jax eats a RAW diet. If you are feeding a RAW diet you need to take into account that the meat they are eating is probably not grass fed and has a higher O6 content. Therefore, they will need a higher O3 dosage to even out the ratio. With 2000 mg of fish oil per day (540 EPA/DHA) plus sardines weekly, her ratio is right around 3:1. I"m very happy with that and feel it's a good balance. Keep in mind that O3's also work as blood thinners. That's why Banshee only gets 1000mg. She has growths and one tends to ooze plus a return of mast cell cancer so she runs a high risk of stomach ulcers.. So if your dog has any issues with bleeding then don't give as much.


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## sable123

Uncoated probiotics wont make it past a dog's stomach. In humans they do. The specialized products for dogs also have a much higher bacteria count than what is in yogurt.

The products for dogs also have the so called native bacteria strains as well. They are just better products than feeding yogurt for probiotics. 

A two year supply of Bac Pak Plus is $25.


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## GSDSunshine

I believe you can feed anywhere from 1000mg Fish (or Salmon) oil to 10-30 pounds. 

I believe you give higher doses to animals with weaker immune systems and those recovering from an illness. 

Dakota weighs roughly 85 lbs and he gets 4000 mg a day (about 1000mg per 20 pounds). 

I also feed vitamin E each time I give Salmon oil (400 iu).

For yogurt, there isn't a set amount to feed. It all depends on what their bodies can tolerate. For some dogs, any yogurt is too much, for others it doesn't matter. Because you would have to feed quite a lot for any chance of probiotics from the yogurt having any effect, I think of yogurt as a treat item, not necessarily as a supplement. Although a nice greek yogurt is full of good protein and fat.


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## ChristenHolden

I give Bella 3000 mg fish oil and 400mg Vit E. And cottage cheese 2 or 3 times a week she will NOT eat yogert her dog food if it has touched her dog food and will eat around it. She loves her cottage cheese tho


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## Ali B.

Thanks. I appreciate all of your responses. I'm definitely going to start increasing the dosage and start adding vitamin E to the fish oil. I'm going to check into the coated probiotics as well.


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## Jason L

Ike is 85 lbs and get 4000mg of fish oil a day.
Obie is 65lbs and gets 2000mg.
Dottie is 16lbs and gets 1000mg.

I used to feed them yogurt too but I stopped. It was a just a tiny amount and I don't think it made much difference.


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## sable123

Ali B. said:


> Thanks. I appreciate all of your responses. I'm definitely going to start increasing the dosage and start adding vitamin E to the fish oil. I'm going to check into the coated probiotics as well.


Why are you doing all this? If your feeding a high quality food you are just wasting money. People are spending as much as $2 lb for kibble and then adding things. 

Its absolutely insane.


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## Jax08

Good kibble still does not have a good O6/O3 ratio. And it really depends on what they are adding for the O3. Is it flax? Once again, only a small percentage of dogs can convert that ALA O3 to the needed O3.


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## sable123

Jax08 said:


> Good kibble still does not have a good O6/O3 ratio. And it really depends on what they are adding for the O3. Is it flax? Once again, only a small percentage of dogs can convert that ALA O3 to the needed O3.


 
It would appear that most on here are feeding expensive foods so all the supplementation is just money flushed down the toilet.

So what are you saying, the makers of well known performance foods like Annamaet, Abady & Redpaw don't know how to balance out the fat in dog food?

I think you are reading too much internet dribble.


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## Jax08

First, you have no idea how I, or anyone else on here, work our dogs. No. She isn't worked hard but that doesn't mean her diet can be out of balance.

Actually, the studies I read came from Cornell and equivalent sources. I don't rely on "internet dribble" or suck up the manufacturers PR statements on their own websites.

What exactly are your credentials that you think you can insult people like you do? Are you a nutritionist? If you can provide credible, independent, sources that say I'm wrong I would be happy to read them. Until then I'll rely on credible sources. Not some yahoo on an internet forum that claims to know everything but won't provide backup and can only throw out derogatory statements and copy and paste other people's testimonials to hide his own ignorance. 

Have a good day.


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## Jax08

Ali B. - Take what we've said here, as with anything...we're not all going to agree  , and do your own research. You'll find a lot of differing opinions on the amount of fish oil. I have one dog with probable return of mast cell cancer and another with HD. I did the research, only relied on credible sources, and made a decision I was comfortable with. I can only tell you what I've found and what I do. I, personally, will NOT feed anything with Flax for the O3's. Dogs are not built to convert the ALA. Horses are. I do feed it to my horse.  I will NOT feed anything with corn. That is a personal choice and many will disagree. Corn has O6 in it and will increase the ratio of the O6/O3 plus it is not a complete protein. It's not only the amount of Omega fats they get but also the ratio that is very important. 

There are many credible studies done on this. Those same studies include the research that supports the meat we eat, and that is in the dog food, having a higher O6 content because of the food the meat supply is eating (corn!). If the kibble manufacturer is offsetting that O6 with flax then, IMO, it's not doing any good. First, the O3 in flax breaks down quickly especially when heated rendering it useless. Second, the vast majority of dogs can not convert it to the necessary O3.

You can do your own research and find these studies. If you do find something that contradicts what I've found, PLEASE SHARE IT! I'm always up to learn.


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## sable123

Jax08 said:


> Ali B. - Take what we've said here, as with anything...we're not all going to agree  , and do your own research. You'll find a lot of differing opinions on the amount of fish oil. I have one dog with probable return of mast cell cancer and another with HD. I did the research, only relied on credible sources, and made a decision I was comfortable with. I can only tell you what I've found and what I do. I, personally, will NOT feed anything with Flax for the O3's. Dogs are not built to convert the ALA. Horses are. I do feed it to my horse.  I will NOT feed anything with corn. That is a personal choice and many will disagree. Corn has O6 in it and will increase the ratio of the O6/O3 plus it is not a complete protein. It's not only the amount of Omega fats they get but also the ratio that is very important.
> 
> There are many credible studies done on this. Those same studies include the research that supports the meat we eat, and that is in the dog food, having a higher O6 content because of the food the meat supply is eating (corn!). If the kibble manufacturer is offsetting that O6 with flax then, IMO, it's not doing any good. First, the O3 in flax breaks down quickly especially when heated rendering it useless. Second, the vast majority of dogs can not convert it to the necessary O3.
> 
> You can do your own research and find these studies. If you do find something that contradicts what I've found, PLEASE SHARE IT! I'm always up to learn.



I am just trying to be helpful. I have experience from the industry-side as well as the owner side and I am just telling you that if you feed a quality food supplementation, especially oil supplementation, is not required. I can't see how any person at home can add oil to a diet and keep the 3-6-9 balance intact not to mention the protein/fat ratios, which is critical for endurance. People don't realize that just a little oil creates a diet with more fat than protein and that is not a good thing.


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## Ali B.

Jax08 said:


> Ali B. - Take what we've said here, as with anything...we're not all going to agree  , and do your own research. You'll find a lot of differing opinions on the amount of fish oil. I have one dog with probable return of mast cell cancer and another with HD. I did the research, only relied on credible sources, and made a decision I was comfortable with. I can only tell you what I've found and what I do. I, personally, will NOT feed anything with Flax for the O3's. Dogs are not built to convert the ALA. Horses are. I do feed it to my horse.  I will NOT feed anything with corn. That is a personal choice and many will disagree. Corn has O6 in it and will increase the ratio of the O6/O3 plus it is not a complete protein. It's not only the amount of Omega fats they get but also the ratio that is very important.
> 
> There are many credible studies done on this. Those same studies include the research that supports the meat we eat, and that is in the dog food, having a higher O6 content because of the food the meat supply is eating (corn!). If the kibble manufacturer is offsetting that O6 with flax then, IMO, it's not doing any good. First, the O3 in flax breaks down quickly especially when heated rendering it useless. Second, the vast majority of dogs can not convert it to the necessary O3.
> 
> You can do your own research and find these studies. If you do find something that contradicts what I've found, PLEASE SHARE IT! I'm always up to learn.


Thanks Jax08. I appreciate your insight. I, too, have done extensive research and firmly believe in the importance of fish oil supplementation. Our veterinarian has also agreed adding fish oil is important for better cardiovascular health, better brain function, healthier skin and coat, to help ward off arthritis, skin allergies, etc. The list goes on and on. We've been feeding our dogs the Chicken Soup for Dog Lovers Soul, large breed adult and large breed puppy. I don't consider it a low quality food (it rated four stars in all the dog food analysis research studies I could find). Please correct me if I'm wrong. It does not contain wheat or corn either. I will continue to give my dogs fish oil for optimal health benefits. I will not be deterred by anyone whose negative remarks and insults are not backed up by actual facts. Thank you again for taking the time to respond to my questions. The info you provided really helped.


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## sable123

Ali B. said:


> Thanks Jax08. I appreciate your insight. I, too, have done extensive research and firmly believe in the importance of fish oil supplementation. Our veterinarian has also agreed adding fish oil is important for better cardiovascular health, better brain function, healthier skin and coat, to help ward off arthritis, skin allergies, etc. The list goes on and on. We've been feeding our dogs the Chicken Soup for Dog Lovers Soul, large breed adult and large breed puppy. I don't consider it a low quality food (it rated four stars in all the dog food analysis research studies I could find). Please correct me if I'm wrong. It does not contain wheat or corn either. I will continue to give my dogs fish oil for optimal health benefits. I will not be deterred by anyone whose negative remarks and insults are not backed up by actual facts. Thank you again for taking the time to respond to my questions. The info you provided really helped.


If you need to supplement fat for whatever reason. You would be better off with a product like this:

Balanced Fat | redpawfeed.com

The Redpaw people know what they are doing.


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## Jax08

Sable123 - please provide sources that dogs do not benefit from yogurt or human probiotics and need "specialized" dog products. Everything I find says otherwise.


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## Mac's Mom

Just an idea - My husband makes frozen plain yogurt pops for Mac. It takes him a little longer to eat and its a cool summer treat.

Anyway...probably a dumb question but I just want to be thorough. You all give regular drug store fish oil right? Its not something special from a pet store?


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## jakeandrenee

Human Grade Oil is best...


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## Jax08

nope..nothing special. I look for cold pressed oil. I buy it off vitacost.com along with the Vt E and Vt C.


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## Courtney

I have been using this salmon oil-does anyone else use it? Is it ok? I use it according to the directions on the bottle. http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/dosages/dosages.html


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## sable123

Jax08 said:


> Sable123 - please provide sources that dogs do not benefit from yogurt or human probiotics and need "specialized" dog products. Everything I find says otherwise.


I did not say dogs don't benefit from the protein and fat in yogurt but the bacteria count needs to be far higher for colonization than whats in yogurt.

The delivery mechanism for probitiocs needs to be enterically coated so that the bacteria passes through the stomach without being digested. So the cultures in yogurt do nothing for a dog.

If this is something you do not know then I suggest you educate yourself and don't rely on me. This is probiotics 101.

The specialized products also have several strains of bacteria that are native to a dog like *Enterococcus faecium. This is in fact the only bacteria strain that has been clinically tested on dogs.*


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## sable123

"In dogs, human-derived organisms are also ineffective at colonizing the intestines. Dog-derived microbes do seem to reach and survive in the intestines, but no clinical for these has yet been demonstrated. And in cats, there are no published research studies on the use of probiotics for prevention or treatment of disease"

"Finally, a probiotic preparation must contain enough live organisms in an appropriate delivery vehicle to enable colonization of the intestines"

Cornell


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## Jax08

sable123 said:


> I did not say dogs don't benefit from the protein and fat in yogurt but the bacteria count needs to be far higher for colonization than whats in yogurt.
> 
> The delivery mechanism for probitiocs needs to be enterically coated so that the bacteria passes through the stomach without being digested. So the cultures in yogurt do nothing for a dog.
> 
> If this is something you do not know then I suggest you educate yourself and don't rely on me. This is probiotics 101.
> 
> The specialized products also have several strains of bacteria that are native to a dog like *Enterococcus faecium. This is in fact the only bacteria strain that has been clinically tested on dogs.*


Well...I was trying to educate myself and since you claim you work(ed) in the "industry" I thought you may have a source that I could read to verify the conflicting information I was finding as there was not a credible source online. 

Everyone might be a bit more willing to take your advise if your responses weren't so obnoxious. Obviously, you have nothing to add and post only to feel important. If you can't back up your theories then perhaps you shouldn't post them.


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## Jax08

Ali B. - I have to call a vet regarding an issue he was checking on with Cornell U. for me so I'll ask this as well.


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## Jax08

Ali B. - Here's a good starting article.

http://www.tualatinkc.org/pdf/Use of Probiotics.pdf - Does not say anything about coated vs. uncoated. But very interesting that dogs fed this particular strain seemed to have vaccines that were affective for a long period of time.


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## Ali B.

Jax08 said:


> Ali B. - I have to call a vet regarding an issue he was checking on with Cornell U. for me so I'll ask this as well.


That's very kind of you. I do appreciate it. I also have another vet appt. coming up this Saturday and will address all this as well. We can compare notes.


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## Ali B.

Jax08 said:


> Ali B. - Here's a good starting article.
> 
> http://www.tualatinkc.org/pdf/Use of Probiotics.pdf - Does not say anything about coated vs. uncoated. But very interesting that dogs fed this particular strain seemed to have vaccines that were affective for a long period of time.


This article is very interesting. I will print it and share it with my vet on Saturday.


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## sable123

Ali B. said:


> This article is very interesting. I will print it and share it with my vet on Saturday.



It very interesting but to my point that study was used to support Purina's development of FortiFlora, which has an enteric coating.

That product is a rip off compare to Bac Pak Plus which has several strains as well as enzymes.


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## PaddyD

Dribble is something you do with a basketball. I think you meant to say drivel. But then, who in this country can spell or punctuate correctly ????


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## DJEtzel

Sable, I don't think you have enough experience to say that what we're doing is wasting our money. On high-quality food, my dog sheds like a beast and has loose poop. With added oils, eggs, and yogurt, his poops are solid and his coat is shiney with VERY little shedding. 

The supplements work more than the food. End of story.


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## sable123

DJEtzel said:


> Sable, I don't think you have enough experience to say that what we're doing is wasting our money. On high-quality food, my dog sheds like a beast and has loose poop. With added oils, eggs, and yogurt, his poops are solid and his coat is shiney with VERY little shedding.
> 
> The supplements work more than the food. End of story.


I think its in your head. The "high-quality" food you say you feed must not be. I am friends with two national sled dog champions and I have several titled dogs and they win on a real high quality kibble not one with a pretty label.

I am all for adding fresh food but you should be adding organ meat not supermarket products that cost many times more.


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## onyx'girl

Sable 123 can you share your credentials with the board? 
superior attitude/ it would be nice to know the reason for it.
I feed raw as I believe it is "high quality" compared to kibble, dribble...


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## jaggirl47

The majority of the members on this board feed either raw or an extremely high quality food. The OP got the info she requested. Now this thread is starting to get nasty. Maybe it needs to be locked. Not everyone will agree on everything.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Moderator talking.........................

Please everyone, you can all say whatever you want or know as long as you can be polite about it. Everyone has different backgrounds and experiences and are WELCOME to post. 

But you need to NOT attack or name call or any other rule breaking posting.

I only feed my dogs bird food and so far they have been doing fine (but I do fine alot of seed in their poo, is this a problem?).

JUST KIDDING!!!


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## onyx'girl

I should add my dogs eat raw, seed I find too, in the poo. 
But it is from my parrots the dogs tend to hoover the birdroom(some eat pellets, some are on seed but it is all grains) It just goes thru them with out being digested...says something about grains in the diet doesn't it?


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## Jax08

hmmm...grains in the diet....DD made molasses/grain treats for the horse and true to her nature, did half of it and left it on the table. Banshee smelling something sweet helped herself. It bound her up for days. I thought I had a dog bloating! Three days later the grain came out still whole.

Anywho...

*Ali B *- What did the vet have to say about probiotics? I haven't had time to call the vet that was checking on things for me yet.


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## DJEtzel

sable123 said:


> I think its in your head. The "high-quality" food you say you feed must not be. I am friends with two national sled dog champions and I have several titled dogs and they win on a real high quality kibble not one with a pretty label.
> 
> I am all for adding fresh food but you should be adding organ meat not supermarket products that cost many times more.


No, it's not in my head. It's in the vaccuum cleaner and carpet when we don't feed oil. Even on a raw meat diet, he was shedding more than with oil supplements. I don't really care who you're friends with, I know many dogs that finish young on purina. The food you feed has very little to do with titling your dogs in ordinary shows. Sledding is a different issue, but I don't find it relevant here, we're not talking about sled dogs. We're talking about GSDs. The food I feed my dog is high quality, and I don't add any supermarket products to my dogs food. Even when we were feeding raw, we were feeding whole cows, chickens, pigs straight from the farm.


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## Ali B.

Jax08 said:


> hmmm...grains in the diet....DD made molasses/grain treats for the horse and true to her nature, did half of it and left it on the table. Banshee smelling something sweet helped herself. It bound her up for days. I thought I had a dog bloating! Three days later the grain came out still whole.
> 
> Anywho...
> 
> *Ali B *- What did the vet have to say about probiotics? I haven't had time to call the vet that was checking on things for me yet.


Honestly, it completely slipped my mind when I brought Jenna back to the vet because we're dealing with sarcoptic mange symptoms right now. It's been my only focus. She's on an antibiotic for two weeks, Revolution treatment for 3 months and medicated bath once a week for the next several weeks. The poor girl can't stop itching and I feel so bad for her.  From what I recall of my initial conversation with my vet, he clearly stated plain yogurt is fine for probiotic benefit, which is what he gives his own dogs. I still have the article - I just have to remember to bring it with me to show him when I bring Jenna back in the next two weeks.


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