# Puppy illness after second vaccination jabs



## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

Hello, my puppy who is now around 10 weeks old has just had her second puppy jab and is now ill a day after. First time round she was fine after.

It was about 11am on the 27th (second puppy jab was then). She was fine and eat and drunk like normal that evening around 7. In the morning (28th) she threw up twice and eliminated twice. She stopped being interested in food all of the 28th and drunk water untill about 11am (28th) then she stopped aswell. She has slept all day (28th) but is looking okay in herself and will get up and roam, even try very timidly to fight the cat which she loves doing when shes fine. I left (whilst monitering) her untill about 10pm (28th) and gave her water with a tiny bit of salt in for her fluids shes lost/not taken but threw it up straight away (may of been too salty) so after 20 mins tried again with even less salt and she has kept it down. She also has been out, 10pm (28th) and eliminated diarrhea twice, there was no blood in this that i could see. Now im worried about parvo but her first jabs had the vaccine for it in that... I called the vet and they said bring her in the morning if shes still the same, but shes showing symptoms of parvo and ive read horror stories online! But other people and posts have said that this reaction can happen with jabs...

Anyone else had similar problems? Sorry for the long read and rant but im just a bit worried. God knows what im going to be like when i have a baby of my own! 

Thanks Sam


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd be taking her in tomorrow regardless. Your vet needs to document her side effects and possibly illness from the vax.
I'd just let her lick ice cubes through the night and keep her comfortable...but get her in as soon as you can in the morning. And don't let her walk in there...carry her and bring a blanket for her when you do put her down. How old is she? 10 weeks?


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I'd be taking her in tomorrow regardless. Your vet needs to document her side effects and possibly illness from the vax.
> I'd just let her lick ice cubes through the night and keep her comfortable...but get her in as soon as you can in the morning. And don't let her walk in there...carry her and bring a blanket for her when you do put her down. How old is she? 10 weeks?


Thank you for your prompt reply. She was born on the 10/12 so around 10 weeks yes. I shall take her first thing. I have been forcing some water down her and shes keeping it down. She just wont willingly drink it which is a bit disconcerting. Why would she react so badly to the second jab? 

The jabs shes been given is vanguard? If you know about these. The vet is a reputable so im not too worried about the make of the vax. I have always carried her into the vet and not let her on the floor or touch any other dogs that are in there. Although we have another dog who lives at home with her and is a chocolate lab 7 years old who is vaccinated fully, a Siamese house cat who is fully vax. She has also seen some family friends dogs who have also been vax'd fully.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You aren't in the US are you? Some dogs just have different reactions to vaccines....I hope your pup feels better in the morning, but I'd still take her in to the vet so they can take her temp and document her reaction. 
Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'd take her right in the morning. Sounds like she's having a reaction to the vaccine. And I think I would titer before I gave her another. Was it a combination vaccine? Or only for one disease?


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> You aren't in the US are you? Some dogs just have different reactions to vaccines....I hope your pup feels better in the morning, but I'd still take her in to the vet so they can take her temp and document her reaction.
> Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol


No, UK. Yes I will, I hope it's nothing that will harm her long time! But hopefully it's vaccine related!


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> I'd take her right in the morning. Sounds like she's having a reaction to the vaccine. And I think I would titer before I gave her another. Was it a combination vaccine? Or only for one disease?


First was a combo for about 7 different things, not sure about the second but I imagine the same just booster. If this isn't the case I know the first jab didn't t not include rabies and something else I can't remeber... So it may be just that or 2-3 extra. It was called vangaurd 7 cvp-L the first vax. No sure about the second.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Look at Dr Dodds site....she is the vaccine guru! 
I'd never give a pup a 7 way. And remember when you do give the rabies, no other vaccines should be given two weeks prior or after...give that one alone, especially now that you've seen how your puppy reacts.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

My boy had a similar sounding reaction to his second puppy shots too. My vet sent away to let the manufacturers know (Virbac here) and I titered him instead of giving him the third dose.


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

thanks for all the replys.

Shes been to the vet, she isnt too dehydrated. She weighed 6.7kg on the visit on the 27th for the jabs and when she went in 20 mins ago she weighed 6.3kg. 

It cost £80! Two jabs, anti inflam and one to stop her throwing up. and she also got given some doggy anti biotic paste and anti biotic pills both to be taken twice daily. Hopefully this will help her! She is now resting again, when she wakes and perks up, she'll want food!


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## MaxxyGSD (Dec 26, 2012)

Yep I know how this story goes all too well! Our max went through the same thing after his first round of vaccinations and wormer. Began with a hunger strike, to refusing to drink at all. Constant diarrhoea and sick! Very frightening, but after antibiotic and med to settle his stomach he perked up within a day !! Delighted to here your little one's fine!! 
I thought it was fairly rare that the vacc's would cause this but obviously common enough! 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

MaxxyGSD said:


> Yep I know how this story goes all too well! Our max went through the same thing after his first round of vaccinations and wormer. Began with a hunger strike, to refusing to drink at all. Constant diarrhoea and sick! Very frightening, but after antibiotic and med to settle his stomach he perked up within a day !! Delighted to here your little one's fine!!
> I thought it was fairly rare that the vacc's would cause this but obviously common enough!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


how long did it take? She didnt throw up all day on the day she went to the vet, but in the morning she has thrown up again.. Also still being quite lethargic. 

shall i just continue with the anti biotics and pro biotic paste... when should i call the vet again?


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

*Advice/past experience needed*

So, pup still is not better. 

She had the anti inflam, anti sick jabs and then some doggy pro biotic with anti biotics. After we took her home she was fine, started to eat and drink. 

About 6pm that evening. (took her in at 9.30) she started to drop again. Being sluggish, sleeping even more. She was like this till the morning. 

This morning she was sick again and wouldnt keep down the anti biotic or paste. She is becoming increasingly skinny and just wont eat at all and now waters becoming a chore for her. Im super worried now, as its sunday the vets not open and although i have insurance they wont pay out in the first 14 days!!!! and that includes not paying out for any illness they develop during this 14 day period! I bought her on the 14th, got insurance on the 16th and she became ill on the 28th. Insurance is such a joke.

Im in a bit of a dilema. I love her but i just cannot afford this impending vet bill, her first visit cost me £80!!! That was with "experiment" - "this may work" attitude. So what now  in pieces really, such an upsetting predicament. 

I just want her to get better :'( Can anyone suggest anything at all? What i might be, what im in for. Its killing me!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

She's dehydrated. You have to get back to the vet. Ask for sub cu fluids at the very least.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It is possible for her to have become ill with parvo in the space between the 1st and 2nd vaccines, and she's now broke with it.
Did they test for parvo when you were there? 

Either way she needs FLUIDS - if you can do @ home that'd work but she must also stay warm. Ask for vet for "SUB CU" fluids and how to do it at home.

Without fluids and antibiotics (also sub cu) she may pass away. You can get the anti nausea medicine for Sub Cu use as well.





 It is critical to get the fluids today.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

this puppy is sick and needs to go to the vet. I'm willing to bet this is a reaction to the vaccine and needs to be treated as such. If your vet doesn't know what to do...tell him to look it up!


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

This puppy absolutely needs to see a vet ASAP. I would follow Dr. Dodds protocol, and to be honest I wouldn't vaccinate again without doing titers and deeming it necessary. It sounds like a reaction to the vaccines on an already weak system.

I agree with needing to see the vet, needing SubQ fluids ASAP. Something went wrong and the pup isn't recovering; needs help.


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

I have gotten her some rehydration solution from royal canin and administered that to her. She has eaten a tiny bit that was partially forced and had a big drink of normal water. Given her her last anti biotic of the day and shes seeming more consistent than she has, although still not right. 

Tomorrow if there inst a SIGNIFICANT improvement she'll be going back to the vet first thing.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Let us know.
To be clear, rather than just not vaccinate, keep in mind 7 ways can be more dangerous than your standard 5-way vaccine. 
We use only 5 ways in our rescue, and nothing but 5-ways, no leptospirosis at all, and no corona. 
We stick with "core" vaccines and feel that is much safer. We've never had issues with doing vaccines that way.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

To be clear, nobody said to not vaccinate. They, including me, said to titer to see if the third vaccine was necessary.

Absolutely no Lepto. Many U.S. vets are not even vaccinating for it anymore due to the reactions. I've never had a vet do more than a 5 way on a dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My vet wanted to do a 7 way on Karlo when he was a pup. I know I had a big red X on my records when I declined certain vax. And I was charged for an exam every time I went in for the vaxing, even though there was no exam given. I called them out on it when I told them no way was I going to give a rabies vax with the last set of shots. They waived the last exam fee and really, hadn't I been proactive, my dog would have been over vaccinated and I'd be over charged as per usual. 
If clients aren't knowledgeable, there is a risk of "too much too harm" instead of "first do no harm".


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

While the pup is on meds. he may not have been treated properly for vaccine reaction...your Vet HAS to note this on the file AND report it to the manufacturer as they may pick up the tab for your dogs expences...provided he didn't contract something at the clinic while his immune system was under suppression from the first round...will find treatment your vet should have followed which he may have, but abx. isn't on that - it could be a blood bacterial infection from the needle itself - so... yet?


Anyhow...you can try a couple things to boost his health regardless...
one is colostrum....read this and if you can find in UK, then make sure it is from abx. hormone free grass fed animal

 BOVINE COLOSTRUM: THE FORGOTTEN MIRACLE

another that has the benefits of seacure and colostrum...
Proper Nutrition: SeaVive® - Comprehensive Immune Support

Seacure on it's own - comes in powder form so you can adjust to size - not sure about the above combo...

Seacure for Pets 100g powder by Proper Nutrition


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Any update?


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

*Update*

Right, so on the monday morning she went into the vet and stayed in on a drip from 9.30 am till 5.30 that evening, When she was in the vet found blood on the end of the anal thermometer which worried me immensely as she now has all the signs of parvo. 

So at the vets they took some tests and from what they discovered is that she had high count of white blood cells and everything else was normal which they said indicated a bacterial infection and not a virus so it was a bit of a relief. She was on a drip all day.

The vet said she had eaten and drunk and been given some other form of anti biotics. When she came out she was as normal yet 0.7kg less in weight and whimpering. Got her home and she was fine and acting like her normal self.

BUT same thing happened again, after the hours pass the effects of this "miracle" drug as i call it and shes back to being bad! Throwing up, sleeping. The vet gave me another type of anti biotic which shes been on for a day but im sick of everything. 

In my opinion i feel the vet is completely shafting me for my money and im VERY angry and upset about it. Twice shes been and they STILL cannot diagnose whats wrong with her or put a name to her illness. All i get is if's and maybes for what it can be and to be honest in my mind its not good. Ive paid all in all £320 GBP for her to be in their "care" and all thats happened twice is they've pumped her full of wonder drugs, gave me some anti biotics and seeming as it'll do and telling me to watch her. This isnt funny anymore, espeically as my insurance wont pay out for this as i was ONE DAY OUT the 14 waiting period for it to kick in. 

If she goes back in she wants me to do a stool sample over three amounts, but this is proving hard as when she went to stool when she got home it was completely water. They also want £100 for this and then they said X-ray! I cant afford this expense anymore. Why cant they find out whats wrong with her?! surely its not that difficult, we dont go to the doctors, especially the second time with test results and still not be able to diagnose or help ease pain in the slightest?! And when i bought her in the first time why couldnt they do the tests! She was oviously a poorly puppy, what makes me even angrier than i already am is that on the first visit i suggested that she may have parvo! the vet told me that she doesnt and has been jabbed for it!!! Second time they told my mother who took her as i was at work that "She may have parvo". So i hope there's a law suit for medical negligence there?..

Anyways rant over, im hoping that these new anti-b's are just taking time to kick in and hoping by this afternoon she'll show signs of improvement. She now (the day after the day visit to the vet) shes stopped eating and drinking again but does move around more. So i dont know what to make of it. 

Does anyone have any ideas in what to do with either the dog, the medication, the illness and whether im expecting too much from a vet or i should go somewhere else and sue them for being money grabbing, cluess idiots.

Regards, an angry, exhausted, upset GSD owner


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

This is her hemotology results and what the vet gave her -



















As you can see the bits in high are apprently her high white blood cells. I dont understand the graph but thats what the vet pointed out.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Her WBC being elevated indicate infection other than parvo. Parvo causes a marked depression in WBCs. 
That's about all I got other than, it seems she has an infection, and if your vet can't dx her, they are treating symptoms and hope things get better. And they may. They may not if she has developed a chronic issue from the lepto vaccine or just out of the blue (can happen) or was exposed to something. 
Perhaps you could find another vet??

What are her symptoms?? Does she have access to chewing things that could get stuck inside her? An object stuck could cause necrosis (tissue death) which can trigger a WBC elevation I believe.


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

I think it may be something she had swallowed then, i cant think of anything else really. I feel her tummy and there is something tube like which is almost hard which is about four inch NE of her vagina. Its only on the left side of HER body (her point of view looking down). Now she got given something that made her eat ALOT yesterday and today eaten nothing. Now she's had diarhea twice and its been completely brown water nothing even partially solid. Could it be something blocking? If it was an infection blocking a tube surely all the anti biotics shes had should be moving it by now.

Another thing is that she is drinking willingly and will drink a fair amount. If she moves to fast or gets picked up funny to go to the toilet she will be sick a lot of the time.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

*Treatment of Vaccinosis*
The diagnosis of vaccinosis is an exclusionary one — i.e. nothing will be found upon other testing to explain the symptoms. *The animal is given the oral homeopathics, Thuja (for all vaccines other than rabies),* and Lyssin to detox the rabies “miasm”. IF there are no holistic veterinarians in the area, these homeopathics can be obtained from NaturalRearing.com.
Our therapy typically uses steroids in tapering doses over 4-6 weeks to stop the inflammatory process and clinical symptoms. *Therapy begins with an injection of dexamethasone phosphate first, and if the animal improves right away, is continued with prednisone at 0.5 mg per pound twice daily for 5-7 days, then tapered gradually over the next month to every other day*. The use of steroids will cause an increase in water intake and urination, but the animal should be able to handle the drug at these tapering doses for a few weeks. IF a holistic veterinarian wants to try an alternative therapy to steroids, this approach can also work. Try it for several days to see if it will work.
We advise that these patients receive no further vaccine boosters, except for rabies, where exemption can be sought on a case-by-case basis but may not be granted in the specific locale.

In black bold is something you can try to to detox the vax.
In Blue bold is what your vet SHOULD have done to begin with as these symptoms were acute (within 24hrs) of vax.
Your vet then should have marked your file, noted the batch number of the vax., contacted the manufacturer to find out the treatment protocol for a reaction and then requested compensation for treatment on your behalf. YOU have to enforce this with your vet. 

Now the abx. w/a possible bacterial infection likely from lepto or the needle itself - Still should NOT be your problem - but proove it. In the interim, your puppies immune system is taking a beating along w/the abx. and what it is doing to the gut (hence watery poop), this is cycling the ill health as 60-80% of the immune systems health is based on the gut - what goes in, what gets absorbed and what gets utilized....good bacteria help w/the breakdown and uptake of nutrients - the abx. will kill off the probiotic.

I gave you some supplimental suggestions especially SeaCure - You have to boost the immune system so it can get to work on the illness so you can reduce the toxic load on your pup (more meds = more toxic load, weaker immune system=more meds.)

_Reinhardt then recommends three supplements that she considers crucial for rapid healing and recovery: Seacure, probiotics, and digestive enzymes._
_Seacure, described in “__Securing Seacure__” (April 2003) and “__Accelerated Wound Healing__” (August 2006), is a very fishy smelling powder made from fermented deep sea white fish. Because the fermentation process predigests the fish and breaks it into amino acids and peptides, which the body uses as building blocks to repair damaged tissue and speed healing, it requires no digestive effort and is assimilated on contact._
_“I started taking Seacure seriously,” says Reinhardt, “when I gave it to some cats who were dying. They literally responded within 15 minutes. Their eyes went from dull to sparkling in that short a time. Since then, I’ve seen the same response again and again, including seriously ill and unresponsive dogs who sat up, began grooming themselves, wagged their tails, interacted with their owners, and took an interest in their surroundings, all within 15 minutes. I’m not saying that they all get well, but when any pet in dire straits responds dramatically, it’s wonderful.” _


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Welshy23 said:


> I think it may be something she had swallowed then, i cant think of anything else really. *I feel her tummy and there is something tube like which is almost hard *which is about four inch NE of her vagina. Its only on the left side of HER body (her point of view looking down). Now she got given something that made her eat ALOT yesterday and today eaten nothing. Now *she's had diarhea twice and its been completely brown water nothing even partially solid*. Could it be something blocking? If it was an infection blocking a tube surely all the anti biotics shes had should be moving it by now.
> 
> Another thing is that she is drinking willingly and will drink a fair amount. If she moves to fast or gets picked up funny to go to the toilet *she will be sick a lot of the time*.


Vomiting, diarrhea, and something feeling hard in her tummy _could_ be a blockage. Is this something your vet has suggested or looked for yet? If not, I would take her back right away, as it is potentially life threatening. Another very serious concern would be intussusception: Intussusception of the Intestines in Dogs

I know money is an issue for you, but maybe you could call the vet, describe exactly what's going on right now, and ask him about these possibilities. But if it were me, I'd be going back to the vet right away.


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Vomiting, diarrhea, and something feeling hard in her tummy _could_ be a blockage. Is this something your vet has suggested or looked for yet? If not, I would take her back right away, as it is potentially life threatening. Another very serious concern would be intussusception: Intussusception of the Intestines in Dogs
> 
> I know money is an issue for you, but maybe you could call the vet, describe exactly what's going on right now, and ask him about these possibilities. But if it were me, I'd be going back to the vet right away.


Thing is that she has been ill for 5 days now and she had normal stools untill about day 2... and she was just as ill if not worse in the first day and a half... So i wouldnt think its anything lodged there as i would of seen her eat something on the first day of the illness.


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## Welshy23 (Dec 11, 2012)

Any clue to why now all she does is drink a fair amount of water? Even after shes sicks from drinking too much she'll go back for more? About 50 puppy licks of it. Atleast shes drinking?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

She's dehydrated....drinking will irritate her gut as much as eating. I'd only let her have a few ounces at a time(or ice cubes) Poor puppy, I hope the abx kick in and she starts feeling better.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

She could have had a partial obstruction for the first couple of days and now it's fully blocked, or still partial. Not sure about the water. Looks like her kidney functions are all ok. She's drinking but is she keeping it down?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I am wondering if she is drinking because she is heading into renal failure as this issue may be shutting her down (???)


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Sorry, meant to add...unless she is getting steroids, that would increase thirst


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think if the kidney's were compromised, you would see an increased CREA level, not one on the low end. I would think it's simply because she is dehydrated.

Understanding Blood Work: The Biochemical Profile for Dogs - Page 1

Low levels (per above link) indicate liver disease or starvation. So, given that she hasn't been eating or keeping anything down, that makes sense.


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