# Affleck's breeder



## Buggibub

Purely out of curiosity, does anyone know the name of the breeder Ben Affleck got his GSD from?


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## KZoppa

nope


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## Buggibub

I really want to find out his GSD's pedigree. His GSD is beyond stunning IMO. 


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## Shade

Just did a quick google search but came up with nada. He is stunning :wub:


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## mandiah89

No idea, the dog is beautiful but looks highly untrained in every picture Ive seen the dog is pulling him all over the place some with him barking at the end of the leash ect. you would think being a millionaire you would want a trained dog not one that looks out of control


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## Buggibub

Surely someone here will know!? My guess is a New England breeder, but could be California? 

Anyone?


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## Courtney

Yeah, I have no idea. Good looking GSD. It's funny there were a few comments online of people posting that it's NOT a GSD. lol 

He would probably never disclose where he came from especially if it was a breeder. Hollywood seems to promote rescue only & will scream that from the roof tops!


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## Buggibub

No kidding! I am fond of his markings and conformation. 

Although I am a sucker for sables and large blankets. Von Bendlerblock in NW Indiana has some gorgeous sables. They may be who I go to for my next GSD. A great dog is worth the 21 hr drive each way to pick up, but my parents live in Indy so my mom would be willing to help gauge the breeders. She has a lot of experience with that. 


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## Mrs.K

mandiah89 said:


> No idea, the dog is beautiful but looks highly untrained in every picture Ive seen the dog is pulling him all over the place some with him barking at the end of the leash ect. you would think being a millionaire you would want a trained dog not one that looks out of control


Some unfortunate pictures wont tell you anything about the dog. Not all pics show him pulling. Could be any reason why the dog was barking. It happens to all of us, only that we do not have to deal with paparazzis.

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## Courtney

Mrs.K said:


> Some unfortunate pictures wont tell you anything about the dog. Not all pics show him pulling. Could be any reason why the dog was barking. It happens to all of us, only that we do not have to deal with paparazzis.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


My thoughts as well. Thank GOODNESS there's not a camera on me snapping & recording lol


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## Mrs.K

Nikki Reed, by the way, has two. And one of them is a sable hunk as well. 

Nikki Reed Takes Her Dog for a Walk - Pictures - Zimbio

Afflecks Shepherd looks like he could be Czech lines, though.


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## Courtney

Mrs.K said:


> Nikki Reed, by the way, has two. And one of them is a sable hunk as well.
> 
> Nikki Reed Takes Her Dog for a Walk - Pictures - Zimbio
> 
> Afflecks Shepherd looks like he could be Czech lines, though.


I knew that vamp secretly liked dawgs (wolf pack)


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## Liesje

Courtney said:


> My thoughts as well. Thank GOODNESS there's not a camera on me snapping & recording lol


Sheesh, no kidding!

Beautiful dog! Looks very confident out in public.


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## LARHAGE

I know Keifer Sutherland, Rod Stewart and Enrique Iglesias got their Shepherds from Lundborg Land German Shepherds, Keifer's is especially gorgeous, by the same sire as one of my past dogs.


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## Courtney

Brooke Burke has two GSD

Meet the Residents of Chateau Charvet | ModernMom.com


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## llombardo

Chriss Angel adopted his GSD from a rescue... Good Story...dog actually escapes shortly after he got him!!


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## Buggibub

HAHAHAHAHAHA that's so ironic


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## Courtney

That's a good story. Looks like oSo has found a great home. Like how Chriss Angel said he's my shadow, we all know that very well:gsdbeggin:


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## KZoppa

I think I'm just surprised to see celebs with real sized dogs instead of yap yaps. And Affleck's dog is stunning. Really beautiful dog.


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## Buggibub

Definitely think he's Czech line. I can't get enough of their build and faces. So stoic. 


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## Gwenhwyfair

Maybe I'm just worrying too much...but I sort'a wish they would stick with yap yap dogs because never good for a breed to become 'celeb du jour' ...




KZoppa said:


> I think I'm just surprised to see celebs with real sized dogs instead of yap yaps. And Affleck's dog is stunning. Really beautiful dog.


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## Buggibub

I sort of agree. Although most of the GSD owners stay out of the limelight with their dogs. The one "celeb" that pisses me off is John from John and Kate Plus 8. He has two GSDs and is a complete d-bag. 


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## hunterisgreat

He looks rather challenged walking the dog on a leash in every picture, and the dog is always staring at whoever has the camera lol.


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## hunterisgreat

Buggibub said:


> I sort of agree. Although most of the GSD owners stay out of the limelight with their dogs. The one "celeb" that pisses me off is John from John and Kate Plus 8. He has two GSDs and is a complete d-bag.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


And Steven Seagal lol.

His dogs are only sometimes German. Sometimes they are Chinese Kunming, other times they are Russian, others still they are Czech, and ever so often they are portrayed as Native American


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## Gwenhwyfair

Hmmm I didn't find a lot of pics of Affleck with his dog, there are a series of him wearing this black jacket out with his dog but apparently he was getting frustrated with paparazzi one day and told his dog to 'go get him'. 

Interesting he's using a prong (though that looks like incorrect positioning of the prong collar to me...) (credit/link to pic: Minka Kelly Walking Dog Chewy: Photos : People.com)


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## Buggibub

Nobody said he was a pro lol. 


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## Mrs.K

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Hmmm I didn't find a lot of pics of Affleck with his dog, there are a series of him wearing this black jacket out with his dog but apparently he was getting frustrated with paparazzi one day and told his dog to 'go get him'.
> 
> Interesting he's using a prong (though that looks like incorrect positioning of the prong collar to me...) (credit/link to pic: Minka Kelly Walking Dog Chewy: Photos : People.com)


He has positioned better than what most pet people would do LOL



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## Mrs.K

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Maybe I'm just worrying too much...but I sort'a wish they would stick with yap yap dogs because never good for a breed to become 'celeb du jour' ...


They are peopke too. Maybe he loves the breed just as muchnas we do.

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## Buggibub

@ Mrs K- so true. And his dog didn't even make him spill his coffee so he's doing something right!


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## Gwenhwyfair

true true but most people think prong collars are cruel too...so I'm surprised he's out in public with one on his dog. 

btw Here's the link to the paparazzi story with more pics.

Ben Affleck looks really grumpy while walking his dog in California - 3am & Mirror Online



Mrs.K said:


> He has positioned better than what most pet people would do LOL
> 
> 
> 
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## Gwenhwyfair

You mean little doggies are people too? 

I don't think Paris Hilton will try to stuff Ben's dog in her purse. 




Mrs.K said:


> They are peopke too. Maybe he loves the breed just as muchnas we do.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Gwenhwyfair

Now I was cutting the guy some slack pointing out it was a series of photos from one walk (possibly?) but when my dogs used to do this to me people yelled out "Hey The dog is walking you!" :blush:











Buggibub said:


> @ Mrs K- so true. And his dog didn't even make him spill his coffee so he's doing something right!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Buggibub

Lol. Maybe his dog had eyed a squirrel in Beverly Hills. 


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## KZoppa

I'm going to go to California just to see if I ever spot him out with his dog. Then I will be like Nice dog! Who are you?


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## Buggibub

LOL. Speaking of going to California- There's a rumor Robert Plant has a GSD. I saw him at Target but I was too starstruck to say anything to him. I finally decided that next time I see him, Im gonna ask if he wants to go grab some tacos. 


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## wolfstraum

Dog looks more DDR than Czech IMO....bone and head more substantial....Nice looking dog though!

Lee


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## carmspack

I thought he looked more DDR also , in the last pictures the dog looks a little bushed . Judging from Affleck's attire it is cooler weather and he doesn't look like he has done a vigorous jog -- yet the dog is panting and looking tired in his posture , falling heavy on feet , coat not so great , I would say out of condition


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## Maik

Afflick has had an interesting series of GSD's .... Last year, my wife and I went to Washington State to visit Kraftwerks K9 (Wayne Curry) to bring our first dog home. While there, Wayne showed us a dog that he was training for Ben Afflick. It was an absolutely stunning 3 year old. I understand that Ben returned the dog. Fast forward to this past April, my wife and I decided to have both of our GSD's (we subsequently purchased another pup from Kraftwerks) traind at CPI in Methuen, MA. During one of our visits, my wife asked about any celeb dogs that they had sold/trained and they mentioned Ben Afflick (I saw his dog and it looked very much like the one in the picture). A couple of weeks ago, I heard that he returned it because he was not willing to spend the time to acclimate the dog himself.
I also know that Steven Segal has many GSD's from CPI.


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## hunterisgreat

Maik said:


> Afflick has had an interesting series of GSD's .... Last year, my wife and I went to Washington State to visit Kraftwerks K9 (Wayne Curry) to bring our first dog home. While there, Wayne showed us a dog that he was training for Ben Afflick. It was an absolutely stunning 3 year old. I understand that Ben returned the dog. Fast forward to this past April, my wife and I decided to have both of our GSD's (we subsequently purchased another pup from Kraftwerks) traind at CPI in Methuen, MA. During one of our visits, my wife asked about any celeb dogs that they had sold/trained and they mentioned Ben Afflick (I saw his dog and it looked very much like the one in the picture). A couple of weeks ago, I heard that he returned it because he was not willing to spend the time to acclimate the dog himself.
> I also know that Steven Segal has many GSD's from CPI.


What made you send your dogs off to train?


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## ndirishfan1975

mandiah89 said:


> No idea, the dog is beautiful but looks highly untrained in every picture Ive seen the dog is pulling him all over the place some with him barking at the end of the leash ect. you would think being a millionaire you would want a trained dog not one that looks out of control


Maybe he is trained to attack the paparazzi. 


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## Maik

hunterisgreat said:


> What made you send your dogs off to train?


About 12 years ago, my wife and I imported a two year old GSD from Germany. He had a Sch I and was absolutely the most wonderful dog I have ever owned. In addition to his terrific temperament, his training was impeccable. He was a joy to own. We lost him about 3 years ago, and bought a GSD pup, who I tried to train. While his training was ok, we really missed the training that our prior dog had. Last year, we lost him to a genetic kidney issue. When we decided to buy another dog, I again planned to train her, but this dog was very strong willed and very energetic that I quickly realized that I am a far better dog owner than trainer. Further, when we decided to buy a second pup (same father as the first) I decided that I wanted to enjoy them like I did the first one. I searched the area for a trainer than would fit my needs, and finally settled on CPI in Methuen, who was absolutely awesome. The dogs were there for a total of 10 weeks after which I went to their facility several times for "my" training. The results have been spectacular. I now have two VERY well trained dogs that have impeccable manners and I regularly walk them with no leash. 
Could someone achieve similar results on their own? Yes. Could I have achieved these results on my own? No.


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## Buggibub

Kraftwerk is from what I have read, the be all end all for working GSDs in the US.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I'd do just about anything to have a male from Kraftwerk. 


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## hunterisgreat

Maik said:


> About 12 years ago, my wife and I imported a two year old GSD from Germany. He had a Sch I and was absolutely the most wonderful dog I have ever owned. In addition to his terrific temperament, his training was impeccable. He was a joy to own. We lost him about 3 years ago, and bought a GSD pup, who I tried to train. While his training was ok, we really missed the training that our prior dog had. Last year, we lost him to a genetic kidney issue. When we decided to buy another dog, I again planned to train her, but this dog was very strong willed and very energetic that I quickly realized that I am a far better dog owner than trainer. Further, when we decided to buy a second pup (same father as the first) I decided that I wanted to enjoy them like I did the first one. I searched the area for a trainer than would fit my needs, and finally settled on CPI in Methuen, who was absolutely awesome. The dogs were there for a total of 10 weeks after which I went to their facility several times for "my" training. The results have been spectacular. I now have two VERY well trained dogs that have impeccable manners and I regularly walk them with no leash.
> Could someone achieve similar results on their own? Yes. Could I have achieved these results on my own? No.


You could have, however it is a great dedication of time, understanding, and effort. I was just curious... the old give a man a fish/teach a man to fish situation came to mind.


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## hunterisgreat

Buggibub said:


> Kraftwerk is from what I have read, the be all end all for working GSDs in the US.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong. I'd do just about anything to have a male from Kraftwerk.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I don't think thats accurate. I'm sure they produce nice dogs but no experience with them personally, but there are many very nice working dog breeders in the states.


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## Maik

hunterisgreat said:


> I don't think thats accurate. I'm sure they produce nice dogs but no experience with them personally, but there are many very nice working dog breeders in the states.


That may well be true, but all I will say is that the two dogs I have are amazing animals. I constantly get complements. Also, having visited MANY breeders prior to settling on them, I can tell you that the facility was far and away the best set up. 

As for your comment:
"You could have, however it is a great dedication of time, understanding, and effort. I was just curious... the old give a man a fish/teach a man to fish situation came to mind."

No, I could not. I do not have the time. CPI worked with the dogs many times a day. Since I work, this is not possible. Additionally, having seen hundreds of home schooled dogs in my time, there is NO comparison. 
I was not looking to save money....I was looking to have my dogs trained in such a way that I would be able to enjoy them fully.


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## Liesje

Buggibub said:


> Kraftwerk is from what I have read, the be all end all for working GSDs in the US.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong. I'd do just about anything to have a male from Kraftwerk.


Google them for other peoples' experiences. Nice dogs but you can get just as good dogs from lots of breeders in the US.


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## Buggibub

They're way out of my price range. I have my list of breeders narrowed down. One in northern Indiana, one in Oklahoma, and one in Virginia. I'd fly up and drive back. I don't care how far I have to go to get the dog I want. 


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## hunterisgreat

Maik said:


> That may well be true, but all I will say is that the two dogs I have are amazing animals. I constantly get complements. Also, having visited MANY breeders prior to settling on them, I can tell you that the facility was far and away the best set up.
> 
> As for your comment:
> "You could have, however it is a great dedication of time, understanding, and effort. I was just curious... the old give a man a fish/teach a man to fish situation came to mind."
> 
> No, I could not. I do not have the time. CPI worked with the dogs many times a day. Since I work, this is not possible. Additionally, having seen hundreds of home schooled dogs in my time, there is NO comparison.
> I was not looking to save money....I was looking to have my dogs trained in such a way that I would be able to enjoy them fully.


I'm not saying your dogs aren't amazing animals. Just that I have two dogs, also amazing, both from different breeders lol.. that no one breeder has the market cornered.

I'm just saying you are capable, but I understand the constraints. Just a matter of where you want to spend your time. I also work (run 2 companies actually) and work more hours per week than the average American. 

I can't speak to the "home schooled" dogs you've seen. CPI, or any other professional trainer, isn't doing anything a handler/owner could not, its just a matter to if you want to spend $'s or hours to reach your goals in your dogs behavior. 

You have to understand, no serious "home school" dog trainer is trying to save money lol... infact its quite more expensive in money and time in the long run. However we "the home schoolers" tend to find that training with our dogs to be perhaps the greatest enjoyment shared with the dog. Just as many folks find the most enjoyment in restoring a car in the process itself, not the final product. Not that everyone is or should be that way... just trying to help you understand the other side.


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## K.Creek

Buggibub said:


> Kraftwerk is from what I have read, the be all end all for working GSDs in the US.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong. I'd do just about anything to have a male from Kraftwerk.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I have a female from Kraftwerk who came from Wayne's favorite sire, Oruger or "Rudy".
Not here to breeder bash, but for what you pay for one....their business side of things is lacking.
I would also say that their dogs are not for the busy working person or "faint of heart" for lack of a better term. Sadie pushed me from day one up until recently where she seems to be maturing a bit (15 mos old) but I assure there are still days and times where she acts like a wild child. VERY high drive...unbelievably intelligent. 
I will say this also, just because they look good on the outside and parents are titled, incredible workers (YouTube "oruger the boom") does not always mean the pups will be grand. My Sadie is 15 mos and was just diagnosed with severe HD...that's awfully young. 
If you would ever like to discuss further I'm an open book, I love Sadie and wouldn't trade her for anything but I can assure you that if you ever purchase a Kraftwerk be prepared to have your hands full and research done 


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## MiraC

I think his dog looks a lot like the True Haus dogs!


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## Maik

hunterisgreat said:


> I'm not saying your dogs aren't amazing animals. Just that I have two dogs, also amazing, both from different breeders lol.. that no one breeder has the market cornered.
> 
> I'm just saying you are capable, but I understand the constraints. Just a matter of where you want to spend your time. I also work (run 2 companies actually) and work more hours per week than the average American.
> 
> I can't speak to the "home schooled" dogs you've seen. CPI, or any other professional trainer, isn't doing anything a handler/owner could not, its just a matter to if you want to spend $'s or hours to reach your goals in your dogs behavior.
> 
> You have to understand, no serious "home school" dog trainer is trying to save money lol... infact its quite more expensive in money and time in the long run. However we "the home schoolers" tend to find that training with our dogs to be perhaps the greatest enjoyment shared with the dog. Just as many folks find the most enjoyment in restoring a car in the process itself, not the final product. Not that everyone is or should be that way... just trying to help you understand the other side.


First of all, I never said that Kraftwerks has the "market cornered". I simply said that I did a lot of due diligence, and found them to be superb. I have been very satisfied with the dogs on many levels.

Secondly, I am glad to spend the dollars rather than time to have them trained. I made that clear.

Thirdly, not many home schoolers are willing and/or able to spend the amount of dough that I have on training.

Fourthly, I do not enjoy repeating the same thing over and over and over again to train a dog. The enjoyment for me is living with a FULLY trained dog that is well behaved.

To each their own.


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## hunterisgreat

Maik said:


> First of all, I never said that Kraftwerks has the "market cornered". I simply said that I did a lot of due diligence, and found them to be superb. I have been very satisfied with the dogs on many levels.
> 
> Secondly, I am glad to spend the dollars rather than time to have them trained. I made that clear.
> 
> Thirdly, not many home schoolers are willing and/or able to spend the amount of dough that I have on training.
> 
> Fourthly, I do not enjoy repeating the same thing over and over and over again to train a dog. The enjoyment for me is living with a FULLY trained dog that is well behaved.
> 
> To each their own.


Lol reeeelllaaaaxxxx... why so defensive? I'm not attacking, correcting, persuading, or otherwise being disagreeable to you.

It was said by a poster that they were the "end all be all". I was clarifying my point to any forum reader.

Second, I didn't refute that lol

Thirdly, I've spent more on training on my dogs I'd wager lol. Pay me minimum wage for my efforts as well and I guarantee I have lol.

Fourthly, I never told you to do anything differently, just helping you understand that we "home schoolers" don't do it b/c we want to "save money".


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## ten3zro

Never know how accurate, but lots of pretty wild claims out there floating in internet land about Kraftwerks...dog abuse, etc...
Who knows - people with an ax to grind, competitors maybe. But there seems to be quite a few.


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## Liesje

Buggibub said:


> They're way out of my price range. I have my list of breeders narrowed down. One in northern Indiana, one in Oklahoma, and one in Virginia. I'd fly up and drive back. I don't care how far I have to go to get the dog I want.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Exactly, for the price you can get 2-5 dogs of the same or better quality elsewhere. Not saying the dogs are not good, just that to me they are not worth those prices.


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## Maik

ten3zro said:


> Never know how accurate, but lots of pretty wild claims out there floating in internet land about Kraftwerks...dog abuse, etc...
> Who knows - people with an ax to grind, competitors maybe. But there seems to be quite a few.


My wife and I visited Kraftwerks last year. We also visited many other breeders. The quality of many of the dogs of the other breeders may well have been equal to Kraftwerks, but I will say that the facility at Kraftwerks was far and away the best in terms of cleanliness, care and regimen for the pups.

They do, however, sell far more dogs than most breeders, so it only stands to reason that they would have more "defective" dogs. Having said that, I would venture a guess that their percentage is lower than most.


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## wolfstraum

With the volume of sales, and the price per dog - he has the kind of cash flow/income to run a showplace kennel and pay staff...I have talked to a couple of people who have worked there....it is a business pure and simple....mass volume at premium prices and a super webmaster

the dogs are no better or no worse in most cases than can be obtained from a few dozen other brokers and breeders in the US....just priced higher to reflect the costs of maintaining a huge operation (comparatively)

Customer Service??? No one I have ever seen, heard or known has had good things to say ONCE THERE WAS A PROBLEM DETERMINED - before hand all was fine...an issue??? It is your problem....of course, there have been some real doozies and dramas acted out when things have happened (thinking about the 10K dog who walked in and killed the buyer's cat who was supposed to be "cat safe"....and was told to let the animals "work it out") I think that dog was finally taken back....

For someone with tons of disposable income....sure buy a trained & titled dog....but remember, it was all done in Europe before export, and the mark up is probably over 100% - I was talking to a European breeder about a female his friend had, and who to breed her to prior to import, and within 2 hours, the female was sold to Kraftwerk....she was on their site for resale at 2.5 times the asking price in 2 days....

Lee


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## K.Creek

wolfstraum said:


> With the volume of sales, and the price per dog - he has the kind of cash flow/income to run a showplace kennel and pay staff...I have talked to a couple of people who have worked there....it is a business pure and simple....mass volume at premium prices and a super webmaster
> 
> the dogs are no better or no worse in most cases than can be obtained from a few dozen other brokers and breeders in the US....just priced higher to reflect the costs of maintaining a huge operation (comparatively)
> 
> Customer Service??? No one I have ever seen, heard or known has had good things to say ONCE THERE WAS A PROBLEM DETERMINED - before hand all was fine...an issue??? It is your problem....of course, there have been some real doozies and dramas acted out when things have happened (thinking about the 10K dog who walked in and killed the buyer's cat who was supposed to be "cat safe"....and was told to let the animals "work it out") I think that dog was finally taken back....
> 
> For someone with tons of disposable income....sure buy a trained & titled dog....but remember, it was all done in Europe before export, and the mark up is probably over 100% - I was talking to a European breeder about a female his friend had, and who to breed her to prior to import, and within 2 hours, the female was sold to Kraftwerk....she was on their site for resale at 2.5 times the asking price in 2 days....
> 
> Lee


Just to clarify, I've called requesting documents, for no other reason than I wanted them prior to having Sadie's hips xrayed...so I wasn't calling to yell & scream, just a "hey I bought a dog and was wondering if I could have a copy of her parents x, y, z..." Never got a returned phone call. Called again and left message, never got a returned phone call. Never got the documents. 
I agree no one wants to talk when there is a problem. 


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## hunterisgreat

K.Creek said:


> Just to clarify, I've called requesting documents, for no other reason than I wanted them prior to having Sadie's hips xrayed...so I wasn't calling to yell & scream, just a "hey I bought a dog and was wondering if I could have a copy of her parents x, y, z..." Never got a returned phone call. Called again and left message, never got a returned phone call. Never got the documents.
> I agree no one wants to talk when there is a problem.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I've purchased from smaller breeders. 3 and 6 years later we are still in touch. I've stayed at ones house and talk on the phone from time to time for an hour at a time... Couldn't ask for a better experience


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## Maik

K.Creek said:


> Just to clarify, I've called requesting documents, for no other reason than I wanted them prior to having Sadie's hips xrayed...so I wasn't calling to yell & scream, just a "hey I bought a dog and was wondering if I could have a copy of her parents x, y, z..." Never got a returned phone call. Called again and left message, never got a returned phone call. Never got the documents.
> I agree no one wants to talk when there is a problem.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Check your PM's....I just sent you a message


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## Buggibub

So back to my OP- is it safe to say Affleck got his at Kraftwerks?

I read somewhere that a lot of celebs go to Leersburg, too. 

When I am a celebrity, I think I'll stick to the extremely dedicated hobby breeder who has many years of experience, even though I have a Kaleef now lol. 


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## Liesje

Maik said:


> My wife and I visited Kraftwerks last year. We also visited many other breeders. The quality of many of the dogs of the other breeders may well have been equal to Kraftwerks, but I will say that the facility at Kraftwerks was far and away the best in terms of cleanliness, care and regimen for the pups.


To some people, a "facility" itself can be a bit of a turn off.


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## K.Creek

Buggibub said:


> So back to my OP- is it safe to say Affleck got his at Kraftwerks?
> 
> I read somewhere that a lot of celebs go to Leersburg, too.
> 
> When I am a celebrity, I think I'll stick to the extremely dedicated hobby breeder who has many years of experience, even though I have a Kaleef now lol.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


My guess would be no, it is not a Kraftwerk. Affleck's GSD (in the pictures) seems to have a stocky build, maybe a little shorter leg, beautiful dog but I would say it looks more like a Norbo Ben Ju line...all of the pups from different breeders (Schraderhaus, Candle Hill Shepherds) using those lines look similar to Affleck's
This is a complete guess, so nobody freak out on me 


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## Maik

K.Creek said:


> My guess would be no, it is not a Kraftwerk. Affleck's GSD (in the pictures) seems to have a stocky build, maybe a little shorter leg, beautiful dog but I would say it looks more like a Norbo Ben Ju line...all of the pups from different breeders (Schraderhaus, Candle Hill Shepherds) using those lines look similar to Affleck's
> This is a complete guess, so nobody freak out on me
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I agree.....that is not the dog we saw at Kraftwerks.....it does however, look very much like some of the dogs sold by CPI.....depends on how old the picture is. Many of their protection trained dogs are stocky like the one pictured.


----------



## Maik

Liesje said:


> To some people, a "facility" itself can be a bit of a turn off.


Hard to imagine anyone being turned off by clean kennels, open space and well cared for dogs.


----------



## wolfstraum

Maik - you are missing the point....the facility being so high volume is what turns people off...that the breeding is done with sales as primary objective, not with a long term plan or building a family of dogs to represent the breeder, dogs are housed and bred to produce cash product - they don't live as family members. Personally, I feel very very sad when I see a dozen breeding females kept in kennels and used as little puppy factories!!!! Sad for those dogs who are objects and not beloved family members.....If you think that is acceptable because the physical plant is clean and fancy, then I believe that your priorities are far different than most members.

Lee


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## Buggibub

+1 to Lee. 

This is why I am more interested in going with a small, highly respected hobby breeder. The one I am most enamored with has a Kraftwerks female...

... But then Hunter showed me can van Meerhout, and then I got stars in my eyes because they're only an hour away from me and their dogs/philosophy is EXACTLY what I want minus the 5 hour flight/drive to the other breeder (then 17 hour drive back) I like in Indiana. 

Something about a strong-looking sable just really does it for me. 


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## K.Creek

wolfstraum said:


> Maik - you are missing the point....the facility being so high volume is what turns people off...that the breeding is done with sales as primary objective, not with a long term plan or building a family of dogs to represent the breeder, dogs are housed and bred to produce cash product - they don't live as family members. Personally, I feel very very sad when I see a dozen breeding females kept in kennels and used as little puppy factories!!!! Sad for those dogs who are objects and not beloved family members.....If you think that is acceptable because the physical plant is clean and fancy, then I believe that your priorities are far different than most members.
> 
> Lee


Agreed. Never visited the kennel, but I'm sure it is well kept. Primary objective there is still to pump out the pups.


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## Liesje

Maik said:


> Hard to imagine anyone being turned off by clean kennels, open space and well cared for dogs.


Those are not the criteria I use when evaluating possible breeders/puppies.


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## Maik

Liesje said:


> Those are not the criteria I use when evaluating possible breeders/puppies.


 
Never said it was my "criteria"....only stating facts as they are. As I said, I visited a lot of breeders who should be ashamed of their facility. 

Not sure why I am here defending my purchases from Kraftwerks....certainly no need as I am very happy with both of my pups.

As for Kraftwerks being a "puppy factory" I can only imagine that there are hundreds of breeders posting here that would love to have the kind of thriving business that they have, which was certainly not built because of a flashy website.


----------



## Maik

wolfstraum said:


> Maik - you are missing the point....the facility being so high volume is what turns people off...that the breeding is done with sales as primary objective, not with a long term plan or building a family of dogs to represent the breeder, dogs are housed and bred to produce cash product - they don't live as family members. Personally, I feel very very sad when I see a dozen breeding females kept in kennels and used as little puppy factories!!!! Sad for those dogs who are objects and not beloved family members.....If you think that is acceptable because the physical plant is clean and fancy, then I believe that your priorities are far different than most members.
> 
> Lee


I am not missing your point at all....

Funny thing, it seems that the only ones that are "turned off" are other breeders like yourself. Based on the volume of dogs they sell, it would seem that they are not turning people off at all.

Are you going to tell me you breed for the pure enjoyment of it and money is not a motivator at all? If that is the case, why not give your pups away?


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## wolfstraum

I, for one, would not compromise my soul/emotional well being/self respect, by using dogs that way....I raise mine in the house, do co-owns on some females so that they are in a home and certainly do not have a big factory state of the art facility...but my dogs are loved and know that they are loved and have relationships with me (or the co-owners)...Not jealous at all - not an iota...actually feel sorry for anyone who can live with themselves when using dogs or cats in such a way.....not just KW, but so many other big time show and working breeders....

Lee


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## Lucy Dog

Maik said:


> I am not missing your point at all....
> 
> Funny thing, it seems that the only ones that are "turned off" are other breeders like yourself. Based on the volume of dogs they sell, it would seem that they are not turning people off at all.


As a puppy buyer, I find this kind of breeding a turnoff. Just my opinion as a potential buyer. 



Maik said:


> Are you going to tell me you breed for the pure enjoyment of it and money is not a motivator at all?


Those are the kind of breeders that I prefer to buy from. The ones that don't look at it strictly like a money making business. The ones that do it for the dogs and the breed first and foremost. Kind of like how Lee explained the way she breeds in the above post.



Maik said:


> If that is the case, why not give your pups away?


Because it costs money to title, x-ray, feed, travel, etc.


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## Shade

Maik said:


> Funny thing, it seems that the only ones that are "turned off" are other breeders like yourself. Based on the volume of dogs they sell, it would seem that they are not turning people off at all.
> 
> Are you going to tell me you breed for the pure enjoyment of it and money is not a motivator at all? If that is the case, why not give your pups away?


Absolutely not, I went with a small breeder who raises the puppies in the house and cares for each one and the home each one goes too. I would never support a breeder that treats their animals like nothing but a money maker and only sees dollar signs when looking at them. Sure you'll make money constantly if you pop out puppies and sell them to whoever will pay your price. 

It would be pointless to just give any puppy away after putting tens of thousands of dollars into each litter. Breeders don't have bottomless pockets just like any other person to compensate for each loss.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on your points, I certainly won't support you and don't expect you to support me. We're each entitled to our own opinions

Sorry OP for the OT once again, I hope you find the right dog wherever you choose to look


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## Liesje

Maik said:


> Never said it was my "criteria"....only stating facts as they are. As I said, I visited a lot of breeders who should be ashamed of their facility.


Just because some breeders are basically animal hoarders living in squalor is not really an affirmative for anyone else. I've stayed in the home (not "facility") of one of my dogs' breeders and it was spotless, but I got dogs from these breeders because of the quality of the dogs and their fit with my lifestyle, not because their facility was better than anyone else's. I tend to chose based primarily on the dogs themselves and not the breeder's facility or marketing. I've had some interest in a few Kraftwerk dogs but would never buy one because I can basically get the same pedigree somewhere else for 1/3 the price. If I'm paying a lot more, I expect a lot more of the DOG, I'm not paying for the breeder's special facility or financing the overhead for their business. Spotless kennels, big business, huge property...none of that means much to me good or bad. Show me why the DOG costs that much money. If folks want to pay that, it's their business, but I won't and so far haven't been convinced.


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## Buggibub

No sweat, Shade. All interesting stuff. While I would LOVE to have a KW dog, I won't sell out to the bigger breeders. Now, if one of the hobby breeders has KW lines... 

We have only used hobby breeders and maintain excellent relationships with them for my mom's Aussies, and the level of personal attention small breeders give to their clients is second to none. 

People find reasons to nitpick about everything. Next thing you know, someone will bash New Skete lol. 

At the end of the day, it's all a matter of what you want out of the dog and the experience you want from it. I liked the look of Affleck's dog, and wanted to know more. Just don't know how this turned into a KW vs the World. 


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## hunterisgreat

Honestly, I'd be more inclined to get from a breeder who turned away more puppy deposits than they accepted.


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## Liesje

Buggibub said:


> No sweat, Shade. All interesting stuff. While I would LOVE to have a KW dog, I won't sell out to the bigger breeders. Now, if one of the hobby breeders has KW lines...


The thing is though (as others have already pointed out), these are not "Kraftwerk lines". They buy dogs from brokers and other breeders and then they re-sell and/or breed them. They don't have their own line that they are developing. Nice dogs, yes! I don't think anyone is saying they aren't, but you can get these pedigrees in other places. It seems their main purpose is selling dogs, not actually developing a line and setting some "type" for their kennel.


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## Buggibub

Ohhhhhh- hence why I love this forum. 

So essentially what you're saying is just because the dog comes from KW, doesn't mean it's a KW? It's just bred there or imported to there? Obviously every dog is a blend of different places, but what you are saying is that it's more of a brand?

Is it the same way at Leerburg? 


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## Buggibub

Agreed, Hunter. 

I've already been communicating back and forth with Von Bendlerblock and Im still 3-4 years away. I want to be as comfortable with the breeders I am interested in and vice versa. 


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## Lucy Dog

Buggibub said:


> Ohhhhhh- hence why I love this forum.
> 
> So essentially what you're saying is just because the dog comes from KW, doesn't mean it's a KW? It's just bred there or imported to there? Obviously every dog is a blend of different places, but what you are saying is that it's more of a brand?
> 
> Is it the same way at Leerburg?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Just look at the dog's registered name. If it says "vom kraftwerk", they bred the dog. If the registered name says something else, the dog was bought/imported.

The lines they breed are not exclusive to them regardless.


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## Liesje

Buggibub said:


> Ohhhhhh- hence why I love this forum.
> 
> So essentially what you're saying is just because the dog comes from KW, doesn't mean it's a KW? It's just bred there or imported to there? Obviously every dog is a blend of different places, but what you are saying is that it's more of a brand?
> 
> Is it the same way at Leerburg?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Well, not really. Usually when someone says a "line" of dogs that refers to some selective breeding where a breeder (or even a few generations of a kennel/family of breeders) have bred a "line" of dogs with a certain type. Like they look similar, have similar temperaments, that sort of thing. As far as I can tell, KW is breeding working line dogs, but not really setting a type. If someone says "I have a KW dog", all I can surmise is they have a reasonably bred working line dog, but that doesn't tell me any more detail about their dog. I have a breeder friend who has bred several generations of dogs that have more of a "line" going. The dogs generally look the same and she breeds for specific aspects of temperament, so you know more about the dogs just because of the kennel name. 

KW is a kennel name, any dog carrying that name I would assume was bred by KW.


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## holland

Not commenting for or against Kraftwerk-but I kinda agree with Wolfstraum-


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## wolfstraum

anyone who owns a female at the time of breeding/whelping is THE breeder of the litter....

Kraftwerk breeds/produces alot of litters...they import females that someone else has bred and raised and titled, then bred for a litter...they own the dog at whelping - thus are the breeder. They have all the well known bloodlines and BSP dogs over their various litters - yes they produce some nice litters - but they are not breeding generations of female family - they are buying and selling titled dogs from Europe, bringing some in bred, get a few litters and reselling and restocking with new bred dogs from Europe....sort of like a car dealership changing stock as they sell out....the same bloodlines and combinations of bloodlines are common in probably 90% of the working litters born in the States. I also noticed for a while that they had alot of dogs with DDR lines in the pedigrees, which makes for a less extreme drive dog - ie better for a non working home!

No one breeds dogs to produce bad ones; no one who breeds wants to lose tons of money....but people with small hobby "kennels" (using the word loosely - not specifically as building & facility) put out a far bigger proportion of their income for expenses related to the dogs vs income from puppies!!! It may look like a litter is lucrative - but when it is broken down in an accounting sense, there is little to no profit....I am happy to cover expenses (including training and maintenance) when I breed...

Lee


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## Maik

"the same bloodlines and combinations of bloodlines are common in probably 90% of the working litters born in the States. "

I have a difficult time buying that statement.


"I am happy to cover expenses (including training and maintenance) when I breed..."

So why breed? Is it that much fun?


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## wolfstraum

LOL just go LOOK at pedigrees Maik....he buys very very ordinary lines....

And yes - it is exciting to breed a litter, to see it born and raise it...to see those dogs grow up to be what you expect them to be....to breed, raise and train a dog, then to breed that dog and raise another generation...my L litter will be my 4th generation (including the HOT Sch3 female I got at 12 weeks old!) Kira - Csabre - Bengal - Lynx (to be born!)....so yes...it is FUN and rewarding and exciting and a passion...

I did the same thing with horses - with my 4th generation competing on a national level in eventing.

Lee


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## wolfstraum

Look at first male on Stud page

Lines to Lord v G. - my whole family above goes to Lord ...Kira was 2-5,5 on him
Chicco Fasanerie....was by Ork Wolfendoble - Ilja Schwartzen Zwinger....these dogs are in my C, I, K litters - H litter, and my import female Panther

Troll v d Bosen Nachtbarschaft....Fero son - has 1227 siblings listed and 950+ progeny - hard to find anyone who does not have a WGRWL dog without Troll....my B litter was from an Aly son, his sire Troll

Mink v haus Wittfield - had him in my F litter's sire....a couple of people here have alot of Mink in their family...moderator Lisa Clark has him as a focus in her female family....

Cruger - older pedigree....Fero closer....has Arek Stoffelblick (dam of my A litter was his granddaughter - so A and B litters had him)

Just looked at females....

LOL LOL LOL "RARE LINEBREEDING ON TROLL".....yes with over 950 progeny, and the most popular son of Fero...that is really hard to come by! 

Not going to go through every female...but more of the same....Aaron Granit Rose, Sid v h Gremm, Aly Vordersteinwald, Ork Wolfendoble, Nick Heilingobrosh (SP) and on and on....every single one of us with working dogs have lines in common with one or more of his breeding dogs....every dog I own or have owned or bred has some common ancestry with at least a few of his

Lee


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## Maik

wolfstraum said:


> LOL just go LOOK at pedigrees Maik....he buys very very ordinary lines....
> 
> And yes - it is exciting to breed a litter, to see it born and raise it...to see those dogs grow up to be what you expect them to be....to breed, raise and train a dog, then to breed that dog and raise another generation...my L litter will be my 4th generation (including the HOT Sch3 female I got at 12 weeks old!) Kira - Csabre - Bengal - Lynx (to be born!)....so yes...it is FUN and rewarding and exciting and a passion...
> 
> I did the same thing with horses - with my 4th generation competing on a national level in eventing.
> 
> Lee


This is an interesting forum....I simply posted a response to a question of where Afflick bought his dog....and a further response to a question regarding why I chose the training that I did. Since then, I have been told the breeder I bought from is a bad breeder, that I should have trained my dogs personally....etc etc
I am thrilled that you have undoubtedly the finest GSD's in the world but for you to bash other breeders, is in my opinion both unprofessional and an obvious show of jealousy.

Oh, LOL!


----------



## Merciel

Maik said:


> This is an interesting forum...


It's a forum full of people who are very passionate about dogs generally and GSDs specifically, and passionate people tend to have strong opinions. 

In particular, I think a lot of people are drawn to GSDs because of the depth and strength of the working relationships it's possible to build with these dogs (at least that's a huge factor in why I personally am drawn to them), and it's hard to overstate the joyful, profound connection that can exist in such a relationship. I suspect that is why people (including myself) are tempted to evangelize about the value of training a dog yourself.


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## wolfstraum

threads take on their own personality and tangents

You are making assumptions - I am addressing things you said....you keep putting a adversarial spin on it and making negative personal judgements about me - who you do not know and know nothing about....

I did not make any claim to having the finest dogs in the world....nor did I do anything but look at the PR on some dogs on KW site to see the breeding and put it in perspective as you doubted that many others had the same lines....

The PR on this site, the claims of "rare" when it is common is going to appeal to a type of closed minded, elitist mentality who thinks that big bucks must buy better products and the type of buyer that breeders like KW and other big commercial operations target....GSDs are not cars - after a certain level of accomplishment, money does not buy better....

Most people come here for camaraderie, for help, to learn and to share information...

The personal attack is what is unprofessional - or maybe just plain rude.

Lee


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## Buggibub

+1 Lee. 

Like I said "this is why I love this forum." I am learning so much from people on the forum and it has helped IMMENSELY with my relationship with my dog, as well as helping me figure out what I really want the next time around. 

It's all about educating, nurturing development, and immersing yourself in a community of people that help you get the most out of your dog. 

Plus, us GSD owners are a breed of our own 


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## carmspack

hey wolfstraum don't worry about it --- you have some pretty great dogs --- with lines that KW does not use even , and that is a positive statement ! 
what is your Lynx combination?


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## Maik

carmspack said:


> hey wolfstraum don't worry about it --- you have some pretty great dogs --- with lines that KW does not use even , and that is a positive statement !
> what is your Lynx combination?


Not so...."the same bloodlines and combinations of bloodlines are common in probably 90% of the working litters born in the States" - wolfstraum


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## carmspack

well now you have found one -- of the 10% .

diversity is important .


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## Maik

carmspack said:


> well now you have found one -- of the 10% .
> 
> diversity is important .


Let me guess.....yours are in the 10% as well?


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## Buggibub

Maik-

Seriously, take that crap elsewhere, man. Nobody here was trying to be a smart alec or poop face- quite the contrary. First, most of us had _at a minimum_ decent to good thing, some even *great* things about Kraftwerks. We're not knocking your dogs. Trust me, there are some very opinionated owners on this forum.

Secondly, getting all defensive, and then sarcastic about posts is just childish and rude. There's a general sense of decorum around here that is appreciated, and your defensive and snide responses belong somewhere else. This isn't the place for that crap.

Thirdly, nobody was judging you for buying Kraftwerks' dogs or sending your dogs off to training; that's your prerogative. People here, myself included, are all about learning and growing with the dog.

So please, either get over yourself or please leave.


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## wolfstraum

Carmen - when Kyra was alive - I thought about using Iltis Wildsau....and unfortunately did not ....I found an Iltis son, with Nessel and Queenie combined on bottom....so this is for ME - the male is very similar to Bengal in character and looks...will have backmassing on G litter Wassenmuhle, the haus Himple dogs and bring in Jen Agers Unic and Zorro Laager Wall.....

So with the DDR genetics, I still have Xito and Ufo - and both parents with biddability, high toy and prey drives.....I am pretty excited about this litter!

Lee


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## carmspack

oh yeah , I know it will work -- you mean like this?

Carmspack Alza to my male with Maineiche through Leroy (who was also sire to Buffy (Badge on my Collar) Carmspack Cubby and Samba's Samba .

then 

haus Himpel is basic to my lines - Brings in Bernd .

5 generation long pedigree for Airdrie Hill vom Schmetterling brings in Zorro and Don Iris (G alten Wassermulhe) 

brought in Chiba Parchimer Land who brings in multiple sources to Himpel , G Wassermulhe through Don Iris times 2, 

so I have already taken Avery (Airdrie Hill) through her son Stan , to Chiba --- result in the very biddable , highly intelligent thinking dog Nicholas . Second breeding to Chiba was to Sumo which really brought in the Himpels resulting in forum members' dog Gus who has tons of drive and focus .
we're sort of moving along the same tracks -- I think you'll like what comes from that background


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## carmspack

that Maik is a bit of the difference , not that the lines have to be obscure , it's the planning for one two and more successive generations with a plan and long range goal where you build on on particular combinations, or bring to an end. When the goal is met that is what is gratifying . Not financial rewards - not commerce . 


So I was trying to find a way to explain things. When I set out early in the morning to jog a dog around a plaza or more public "urban" setting I often go in behind where the loading bays are.

It is here that you see the deliveries from some commercial FOOD service which delivers pre-made frozen meals to several of the local upscale restaurants. You could be eating the same thing at one place with lovely ambience for $25 a plate , or another more modest one for $16 - but it is the same thing , and made elsewhere . Actually one delivery I see also makes deliveries to the local discount grocer chain stores, where you can buy the entire tray of frozen lazagna for $10 to feed the whole family.

Or you can go to the independents where the food is delish , made in-house , emphasis on the food and the décor just might be dated , hodge podge and the plate may be less , and you walk out happy , ready to visit again.


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## wolfstraum

Quiz is a full sibling to Talon's dam.....interesting indeed....seems that once again we are on that wavelength of keeping the genetics and bringing them forward....

I expect to be happy with this litter...my K's are wonderful - but lost a bit of pigment and type through the litter - I don't have a ton of chances to get Bengal pups so this litter had to count!!!!

Thanks!

Lee

PS Thanks Buggibub - glad you understand that a discussion about lines and marketing strategy and business vs. passion is just that - a discussion.....


----------



## ndirishfan1975

carmspack said:


> that Maik is a bit of the difference , not that the lines have to be obscure , it's the planning for one two and more successive generations with a plan and long range goal where you build on on particular combinations, or bring to an end. When the goal is met that is what is gratifying . Not financial rewards - not commerce .
> 
> 
> So I was trying to find a way to explain things. When I set out early in the morning to jog a dog around a plaza or more public "urban" setting I often go in behind where the loading bays are.
> 
> It is here that you see the deliveries from some commercial FOOD service which delivers pre-made frozen meals to several of the local upscale restaurants. You could be eating the same thing at one place with lovely ambience for $25 a plate , or another more modest one for $16 - but it is the same thing , and made elsewhere . Actually one delivery I see also makes deliveries to the local discount grocer chain stores, where you can buy the entire tray of frozen lazagna for $10 to feed the whole family.
> 
> Or you can go to the independents where the food is delish , made in-house , emphasis on the food and the décor just might be dated , hodge podge and the plate may be less , and you walk out happy , ready to visit again.


That is a GREAT analogy. My brother in law is a world class chef and I can tell you that a lot of thought goes into flavor combinations in his meals. Just like a thoughtful breeder carefully considers combinations for breeding. 


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## carmspack

Talon ? mmmmm , very interesting Talon von haus Cimmerian 

love the combination, plus being able to bring Quiz / Gibbet so far forward to current combination.

the ladies at Polizei haus made very good use of these combinations. Too bad they are in hiatus . Their program was very successful .

so who are you taking to Talon?


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## wolfstraum

SG1 I-Bengal von Wolfstraum

I went back and forth between a sch3 Iltis son and Talon....the dam line on Talon won...

Lee


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## shepherdmom

So I just read through all 11 pages and I still don't know who Affleck's breeder is. LOL


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## wolfstraum

lol lol too bad you can't change the titles when tangents happen!


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## lhczth

But you can start a new thread.


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## TrickyShepherd

shepherdmom said:


> So I just read through all 11 pages and I still don't know who Affleck's breeder is. LOL


Yeah.... but on the other hand, at least there is no more bickering! Much more peaceful now that those who had their panties in a wad left. lol I like this topic much better! 

Anyway, I don't think anyone really knows. There were some guesses by his dog's looks and his location, but who really knows how accurate that can be. When someone has a load of money like he does (and depending on his knowledge and research on the breed/breeders) he may have even gone overseas for him. It's really anyone's guess.


----------



## TrickyShepherd

carmspack said:


> that Maik is a bit of the difference , not that the lines have to be obscure , it's the planning for one two and more successive generations with a plan and long range goal where you build on on particular combinations, or bring to an end. When the goal is met that is what is gratifying . Not financial rewards - not commerce .
> 
> 
> So I was trying to find a way to explain things. When I set out early in the morning to jog a dog around a plaza or more public "urban" setting I often go in behind where the loading bays are.
> 
> It is here that you see the deliveries from some commercial FOOD service which delivers pre-made frozen meals to several of the local upscale restaurants. You could be eating the same thing at one place with lovely ambience for $25 a plate , or another more modest one for $16 - but it is the same thing , and made elsewhere . Actually one delivery I see also makes deliveries to the local discount grocer chain stores, where you can buy the entire tray of frozen lazagna for $10 to feed the whole family.
> 
> Or you can go to the independents where the food is delish , made in-house , emphasis on the food and the décor just might be dated , hodge podge and the plate may be less , and you walk out happy , ready to visit again.


That's an awesome analogy btw, Carmen! I really think that sums it up nicely. 

It's not about the money, it's about the *dogs*... the "perfect combination".... the goals and outcome... the passion for the breed and everything they are supposed to be. When someone has a passion for something, the outcome is going to be MUCH better than those who just do it to get some money and go. This goes for anything you get in life.... if you want something done right, you go to those who are passionate about it. They're the ones who are going to put their heart and soul into it and give you the best results. As someone who's only touched the tip of the iceburg, it's REALLY expensive and time consuming to condition, train, health certify, critique, trial/show... etc... even just 1 dog for a *potential* breeding qualified dog!! Even then, you never know if you have to wash the dog from the program and start all over again. 2+ years of everything you have put into 1 dog.... may not even make the cut. There's a lot more that goes into these dogs than the typical household fido. It's not about the profit. There's tons more a person can do to make way more money. A lot less heartbreak too. True responsible breeders don't have it easy at all. However, because of them we are keeping this breed going strong and others can appreciate the beauty of our breed as they should be. I appreciate what they do.

This is why it is important to research the heck out of every breeder you look into.


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## Buggibub

What is the meaning of life? LOL. 




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## Buggibub

I now know who to go to for when I get my next shepherd. I'm going to ask all you fine folks if the pedigrees look good for what I want and if there are any concerns, etc. 




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## Gwenhwyfair

*42!*






buggibub said:


> what is the meaning of life? Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sent from petguide.com free app


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## Buggibub

Everything we do is for the love if the breed. We were out with some dog-friends last night and my girlfriend and I got called elitists (in the most loving of ways) and it was mentioned that GSD owners in general are elitist when it comes to their dogs. I did not refute this!

Carmen, your analogy is EXACTLY why I love living in Austin so much. Local wins every time. The mom and pop shops are so much better than the chains. 




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## Ripped

Buggibub said:


> No kidding! I am fond of his markings and conformation.
> 
> Although I am a sucker for sables and large blankets. *Von Bendlerblock* in NW Indiana has some gorgeous sables. They may be who I go to for my next GSD. A great dog is worth the 21 hr drive each way to pick up, but my parents live in Indy so my mom would be willing to help gauge the breeders. She has a lot of experience with that.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I can't even find a kennel by this name with google. Do you have a a link?


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## Buggibub

Old West Shepherds - Quality Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Buggibub

That's the Bendlerblock link. I don't know a whole lot about pedigrees and what to look for other than inbreeding. 

Maybe Lee can shed some light!


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## Ripped

K.Creek said:


> Just to clarify, I've called requesting documents, for no other reason than I wanted them prior to having Sadie's hips xrayed...so I wasn't calling to yell & scream, just a "hey I bought a dog and was wondering if I could have a copy of her parents x, y, z..." Never got a returned phone call. Called again and left message, never got a returned phone call. Never got the documents.
> I agree no one wants to talk when there is a problem.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I guarantee they would respond when you have an attorney send them a letter


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## Ripped

Buggibub said:


> That's the Bendlerblock link. I don't know a whole lot about pedigrees and what to look for other than inbreeding.
> 
> Maybe Lee can shed some light!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks!


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## hunterisgreat

Buggibub said:


> That's the Bendlerblock link. I don't know a whole lot about pedigrees and what to look for other than inbreeding.
> 
> Maybe Lee can shed some light!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


From their site "Capone is an elite sport dog and wonderful family dog. Owned and trained by Karmen Byrd, Capone has done it all, completing his Sch3 at an early age. He has since moved on to other pursuits including personal protection, therapy work, *rock diving*, and more"

Must be a tough s.o.b. lol we stick to dock diving here on the coast lol


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## TrickyShepherd

hunterisgreat said:


> From their site "Capone is an elite sport dog and wonderful family dog. Owned and trained by Karmen Byrd, Capone has done it all, completing his Sch3 at an early age. He has since moved on to other pursuits including personal protection, therapy work, *rock diving*, and more"
> 
> Must be a tough s.o.b. lol we stick to dock diving here on the coast lol


Lol, Here too.... self preservation is important. 

Funny typo.


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## Buggibub

Lol there are quarries up there (?). I've since been edumacated. The quest continues, but I'm still at least 3-4 years out until the next GSD. 


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## ndirishfan1975

Buggibub said:


> Lol there are quarries up there (?). I've since been edumacated. The quest continues, but I'm still at least 3-4 years out until the next GSD.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I don't know if having a simple typo on a web page should make you look elsewhere. The R and the D are very close on the keyboard. You were originally asking for help evaluating there breeding and pedigree not proof reading the web page. 


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## hunterisgreat

ndirishfan1975 said:


> I don't know if having a simple typo on a web page should make you look elsewhere. The R and the D are very close on the keyboard. You were originally asking for help evaluating there breeding and pedigree not proof reading the web page.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yeah I wasn't knocking the breeder, just taking advantage of their humorous typo. Just couldn't get the mental image of this dog repeatedly leaping off a cliff onto a pile of rocks. Lol


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## Rangers_mom

Okay, back to the original topic. Is it possible that Be Affleck got his GSD from a rescue? Why are we assuming he got it from a breeder?


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## ndirishfan1975

I think the assumption is he used a breeder based on the quality appearance of the dog and his obvious ability to afford a quality breeder; however, anything is possible. 


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## Rangers_mom

I am just throwing it out there since there are some absolutely beautiful dogs in rescue. Maybe I am way off base since I really don't know anything about breeding dogs.


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## carmspack

the dog would have been bought as a brokered dog, most likely not directly from the breeder, and come with training, a high maintenance "service" deal , and with options for return and replacement until the right match is found -- $$$$'s 

the celebrity who buys a dog with for protection , does not have the skill or time to take a dog in from rescue . That dog may be there because the former owner couldn't cope with some issue . 
So the celebrity would have to either hyper manage the dog to avoid adverse publicity , or dedicate gobs of time which they don't have for remedial behaviour training and attention . 
Better to buy a dog that has been trained, tested, guaranteed, extended service contract and a bail out option without the embarrassment of returning a dog to rescue or rehoming the dog .


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## Rangers_mom

Carmspack, I agree that I would most likely want a well behaved dog if I knew that the paparazzi would be following me 24/7, but honestly nobody on this board is a personal friend of Ben Affleck so we really have no idea what his dog purchasing desicion making process is. Lot's of wealthy, busy people get dogs from rescues or shelters or other un-glamorous places.


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## Merciel

Rangers_mom said:


> Lot's of wealthy, busy people get dogs from rescues or shelters or other un-glamorous places.


While that's true, it's also true that no rescue organization would ever pass up the opportunity to have that celebrity advertise for them. When a movie star adopts a shelter or rescue dog, they make _sure_ you know about it. George Clooney, Sandra Bullock, Kevin Spacey -- they all go out there and publicize, publicize, publicize.

I think Carmen is 100% right on this one.


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## Rangers_mom

But i volunteered for rescue, fostered several dogs and only one of them had issues. Granted it was australian shepherd rescue - maybe that is the difference? Several of my fosters were not housetrained or lacked other training, but only one had serious problems ie..aggression. I had to keep each dog for 2 weeks and in that time I usually had much of their basic training issues ironed out or well on the way to solving. If you just want a family pet rescues can be just as good as dogs from breeders. I have nothing against people who get dogs from breeders (my GSD is from what I consider an excellent breeder). I agree that it is most likely that Affleck bought his dog but since we don't know him we really don't know.


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## aelynn20

Buggibub said:


> Purely out of curiosity, does anyone know the name of the breeder Ben Affleck got his GSD from?


Altitude K9 in Colorado. Best working lines around.


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