# American GSDs and European GSDs



## Polistes

How do you tell the difference? I figured this could be the main thread that compares the two, with pics, and can help newbies like myself learn to tell the difference, because currently all GSDs are looking the same on the outside so to speak. 

Feel free to even compare other lines of GSD to each other so people can tell the difference. The intent of this thread is to have a picture directory of all the GSD lines so people can compare them to the one they have.


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## Emoore

Breed Types & Related Families
German Shepherd Dog Photos and information for Breed Types and Characteristics
German Shepherd Dog Breed Types


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## blehmannwa

My pup's great grand sire is Yasko Vom Farbenspiel, the dog pictured in the standard for West German Show lines!! Thanks for the link, that is so cool. I feel like I need to class this joint up a bit now.


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## Polistes

VERY NICE and useful. They still all look the same...  :blush:

That post by Emoore is definetly sticky/pinning material.


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## Andaka

The American Show Lines are not very well represnted on those pages.

German Shepherd Dog Reviewed


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## Emoore

Polistes said:


> VERY NICE and useful. They still all look the same...  :blush:


That's what my mom says! 

Rocky is a blanket-back black and tan American Pet Line: 









Cash was a floppy-eared sable Working Line:









And my mom always insisted she couldn't tell them apart!


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## Polistes

I can tell the body colors and ears apart but the main body types look so similar.(Though the sable one seems taller and more leggy?) Though I know they are different, I have yet to get the skill to pick up on those differences, but I will with time, the key is knowing that they are there! 

Also one of the complaints of the American lines are the sloped hips, but looking at the others they look like their hips are sloped too...


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## Emoore

Polistes said:


> I can tell the body colors and ears apart but the main body types look so similar.(Though the sable one seems taller and more leggy?)


He was only about a year old when that pic was taken and he was going through his gangly adolescent phase.  Most working-line dogs are not tall and leggy like that.



Polistes said:


> Also one of the complaints of the American lines are the sloped hips, but looking at the others they look like their hips are sloped too...


A lot of that has to do with the way they're posed. I believe Daphne has some pics of some of her showline dogs stacked and not-stacked. Maybe she'll share them with us.


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## Andaka

Tag Stacked










Tag standing










Tag gaiting










Note straight and level back.


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## Polistes

Cool, nice pics! They are useful thats for sure.


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## PaddyD

blehmannwa said:


> My pup's great grand sire is Yasko Vom Farbenspiel, the dog pictured in the standard for West German Show lines!! Thanks for the link, that is so cool. I feel like I need to class this joint up a bit now.


My dog's grandpa is Grand Victor on sire's side and Black Jack on dam's side. My dog is old style ASL. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are so many beautiful representations of all types in this site.


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## JKlatsky

There were a series of threads on working lines/German Show/ American lines movement. I found these helpful. 

I would say generally that you find the greatest range of types and builds within the working lines. This would be because priority was given to their working ability and characteristics when selecting breeding dogs...not so much to the conformation. They still will have conformation ratings..but are often classified in the G or SG categories...some make it into V....but the highest category VA belongs to the German Showlines. I've seen leggy workinglines, small workinglines, giant working lines, some with a good amount of angulation, some without much at all. I think they tend to be the tightest ligamented dogs. They are also most often the darker dogs. Blacks, Bi's, and Sables are pretty prevalent. Although these colors also exist in American dogs. 

Famous workingline dog. You can see that even though many of these dogs are more highly rated in conformation there is still a significant amount of variation in the ways the dogs look.
V Nick vom Heiligenbösch - German shepherd dog

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breed-standard/100754-working-line-dog-movement.html


American dogs or more properly North American Showlines, were selected based on the preferences in the ring here in North America. They also have a wide variety of color options. I would say they generally have a more refined look than many of the Working lines which tend to be coarser, or some of the German Showlines out there now which sometimes look like they have the head of a Newfoundland. They do tend to have a fair amount of angulation which was achieved through that lower butt look. And the slope to their back isn't actually sloped...their back is perfectly straight...but it's a straight line drawn from higher withers down to the lower set pelvis. You can see when they move they have a tremendous amount of reach, considerably more than the workingline dogs. 
Random American pedigree...look at the similarities in structure on these dogs...
CH Laxfields 4 Paws From Heaven - German shepherd dog

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breed-standard/102103-american-showline-movement.html

German Showlines are almost exclusively black and red. They also have angulation in their rear but it is achieved by a different mechanism than the American breeders chose to employ. They tend to be more square with the more extreme dogs having an almost convex shape to their back, starting at a flater wither and then the topline will also drop to a lower rear. German Showlines tend to have a lot of bone, meaning a heavier appearance. I think of all the lines they tend to be the easiest to recognize on site since they are very uniform. Taken from a random ad on the Pedigree Database, check out this visual pedigree of a showline male... You can see that there is very much a type to all the dogs shown.
Nando von Panoniansee - German shepherd dog

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breed-standard/102072-show-line-dog-movement.html


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## sagelfn

Emoore said:


> Rocky is a blanket-back black and tan American Pet Line:


:wub: Rocky looks like Sage


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## lhczth

I have European working lines and you can see stacked photos of my dogs plus some of the dogs I have produced on my site (link in signature).


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## Rowan

Thanks Andaka for that link. It was interesting to see photo's of Rowan's grandfather.


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## Andaka

Rowan said:


> Thanks Andaka for that link. It was interesting to see photo's of Rowan's grandfather.


Who is Rowan's grandfather? Curious minds want to know.


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## Xeph

My American girl standing and in motion:


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## Andaka

Kizzy Stacked 










Kizzy Gaiting










Kizzy Standing (in Rally)


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## Jax's Mom

Xeph and Andaka, I really like your stacks 

They really complement the dog's structure, not like they're trying to create an angulation that just isn't there unless you keep your dog in a jar.


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## Guardyan

German Show Line 
Stand Photo








Gaiting








Working Line
Stand Photo








Gaiting


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## Guardyan

I think one of the easiest ways to determine if a dog is American lines vs other lines is hind angulation. The AKC standard calls for hind angulation that forms "as nearly as possible a right angle" (90 degrees). The SV standard calls for hind angulation of 120 degrees. You will often see AKC GSDs with a greater deal of hind angulation due to the difference in the standards.

As a side note, the AKC standard calls for a "level back" while the SV standard calls for a "gently downward sloping back". These are fairly significant differences in the standards. For anyone who would like to compare:

AKC standard - German Shepherd Dog | American Kennel Club
FCI standard - United Schutzhund Clubs of America - Breed Standard


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## Xeph

> I think one of the easiest ways to determine if a dog is American lines vs other lines is hind angulation.


I understand your point, but not really sure I agree. I've seen a LOT of German show lines lately with a rear that is comparable to an american show line, but they're (the Germans) so short coupled and stacked so much closer together in the rear that it's not as obvious unless you know what you're looking at.


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## Guardyan

I suppose there are some German showlines with excessive angulation. However, the _majority_ of ASL that I've seen have much more hind angulation than WGSL. Just my personal experience . . .


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## Rowan

Rowan's grandfather is Grand Victor Ch. Mar Haven's Color Guard AKA Boss. Mar Haven's Color Guard I've heard about him but never saw a picture of him.


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## Samba

There are a whole lot of American line dogs born with angulation similar to my working line male. The bend of stifle is not always telling. I most often can tell from the head and ears.

It does look like the Germans have discovered the larger step in gaiting brought about by increased angulation.

I have a puppy line bred on "Boss" out of Tazzman's Aregon.


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## Xeph

My BYB dog Strauss is a Boss Great Grandson


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## Rei

My 2 year old West German working line 

Stacking 



























"Gaiting" (or as close as he'll ever get!!! His movement stinks.)


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## Samba

West German Working Line puppy


















American Line show puppy


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## AgileGSD

Guardyan - Your WGSL bitch is beautiful. I wish more of them had an outline like her's. 

Here's the 3 GSDs I've owned. These pictures are all probably 10 years old, scanned in and not the best stacks in the world but I think they are the only ones I have on the computer.

Jora primarily WGSL, about 1/4 old American/Canadian lines 2 years old









Lexi American lines 2 years old









Doogie American show lines (Lexi's half brother) 18 months old


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## Guardyan

> Your WGSL bitch is beautiful. I wish more of them had an outline like her's.


Wow! Thank you very much! She's a fun girl and we really enjoy her.


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## sitstay

AgileGSD said:


> Guardyan - Your WGSL bitch is beautiful. I wish more of them had an outline like her's.


Tanner says yes, he agrees. His auntie is very good looking!
Sheilah


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## Guardyan

Thanks Sheilah!


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## Xeph

I, too, agree on the outlines, Guardyan! Very very nice!


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## Guardyan

Thank you!


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## Chicagocanine

Here is my contribution for West German show lines.


Bianca stacked (poorly stacked as this was my first and only attempt to do so!)
More photos of my attempt here










Bianca stacked as a younger dog (by her previous owner)










Bianca standing normally










I have no gaiting photos, Bianca has a really nice trot though and I've been wanting to try to take some photos/video...


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## Jessiewessie99

Bianca is a beautiful!


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## sitstay

Bianca is related through the dam-line to Guardyan's Helki (posted dog). I believe Bianca's dam is a litter-mate to Helki's dam (they are both from the "M" litter).

Fun stuff, uh?
Sheilah


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## krisk

Mine are American/Canadian Show lines.

Connor standing naturally









stacked









moving
















Connor is line bred on Boss (GV Marhaven's Color Guard)

Kenna standing naturally









stacked 









moving
















Kenna's pedigree Kenna's pedigree 

krisk
Connor and Kenna


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## Andaka

Beautiful dogs! I especially like Connor's movement. How close is he to finishing his championship?


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## gagsd

I think you need more to compare....
Mostly Czech/DDR pedigrees:

Anik

















Ari


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## BlackthornGSD

Xita--DDR



















Hunter--German/Belgian working lines:









Lynx--German Working lines (2 yrs old--still growing/filling out)









Lynx in motion--about 16 months--


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## Minnieski

DDR = :wub:


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## Jessiewessie99

Can someone post a dog from pure Czech lines, or pretty much pure Czech?


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## krystyne73

sagelfn said:


> :wub: Rocky looks like Sage


My Meika looks like Rocky and Sage!


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## gagsd

Jessica, I do not have any "good" photos of her, but if you want I can try tomorrow.
Czech line female at 10 months.....


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## Jessiewessie99

gagsd said:


> Jessica, I do not have any "good" photos of her, but if you want I can try tomorrow.
> Czech line female at 10 months.....


She is gorgeous!!

Krystyne, your girl is gorgeous too!


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