# Need Help - sitting here in tears



## Deuce'sMom (Jul 4, 2008)

My GSD Deuce has, pretty much until now - been a sweet loving pup. Lately he has started to show some signs of protection - barking at the door, wary of strangers, etc, but generally no big problems other than his dislike of car rides.

Today I thought I would take him for a long walk and play - only -19C here today where it has been -27C or worse so today was a good opportunity. He was anxious to get to the play area, (pulled a bit) played fetch with the chuck it for awhile and then walked nicely through the golf course. 

After this, all **** broke loose. He took exception to my new mitts, was AGGRESSIVELY biting them (and me), and when I would turn my back to ignore him he would jump and bite my arm or my coat. He turned into a wild snarling beast that kept jumping at me and biting. Eventually I took the mitts off and put them inside my coat but he still bit my hand (once). For the rest of the trip home I literally DRAGGED a snarling beast home on his leash. I didn't look at him or talk to him. I had tried some Caesar side kicks to get him to leave my mitts alone (earlier) but that just infuriated him. He would not do a thing I asked him to from helling to sitting to leave it.

He was definitely a dog I didn't like and would never want to encounter again. I am devastated. I cried all the way home while trying to project a calm assertive energy. The two are diametrically opposed.

Somewhat before that he had eaten his own feces - something I have NEVER seen him do. I was getting the bag ready to go pick it up and he was eating it! 

While he didn't draw any blood, the spot on my arm where he got a good hold and bit (through my coat and fleece underneath) is sore. 

He is now in his kennel. I think he'll stay there for awhile. Not sure I can deal with this.

HELP.

Donna


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Hi Donna,

So sorry you had this experience with Deuce. He's 8 months old, right? So, still a puppy. I evaluated a young gsd mix about a year ago that played just like you described Deuce. He was jumping in my face, trying to pull my hat off, jumping on my back, biting at my jacket, pulling my gloves off, etc. When I questioned his owners (I was helping them rehome him) they said they thought he would grow out of this biting stage. It was clear to me that he was playing with me although I did not find it fun and I'm sure someone else would not have interpreted his behavior as playing. 

It sounds to me like you need to go back to square one with Deuce. I know more information will help us help you. How much training has he had? What kind of training (and PLEASE do not try any Cesar moves yourself. You could end up getting seriously injured or seriously injuring your dog!)? How much exercise and training does he get daily? What is he eating? Has he had any health problems?


----------



## Superpup (Jun 7, 2007)

Donna, I am so sorry to hear you are going through this. How old is Deuce? Sounds like he is a teenager or becoming a teenager dog...
Does he usually enjoy tug-a-war games with you? I am just wondering what could have possibly triggered him to be suddenly aggressive towards you!?!?! My teenage boy Cody (2 yrs old) does something similar.. when we go for walks, there are certain spots on our walks, that he ALWAYS turns around at me, grabs my hand or my jacket, or the leash, or my mittens or SOMETHING and wants to start tugging. He is just over-excited about the walk, or another dog's bark triggers him to want to play etc etc. But I KNOW it is play, there is nothing aggressive about him. He will growl at me while tugging, but it is all play.
If this happens again, I would give him a correction, don't just ignore him because it does not convey the message that you do not approve of what he is doing. Also maybe up his NILF-routine? Anything and everythign he gets from you, he has to do an obedience command first... maybe this will help.
To me it sounds like ( and I know you said he was snarling) that he just got over-excited over the mittens.. no it does not justify him biting your hands, but Cody has done this, gotten overexcited about my mittens, or scarf, I taught him to tug on the leash rather than my clothing, if I did not have a tug toy with, but he KNOWS there is no biting ME, but if I let him bite my mittens, that is my choise.
Keep your head up, your wonderful dog did not turn into a beast overnight!! you will be just fine!!!


----------



## Deuce'sMom (Jul 4, 2008)

He generally gets 3 walks a day - one longer one and two shorter ones. He has not had any health problems (was neutered Nov 19th) and is the appropriate height/weight for a GSD. He has completed the level 1 "puppy class" and is scheduled to begin level 2 in January but I am very confdent they would not be prepared to deal with him as he was today. He eats Wellness Adult Dog Food with 1/2 can of wet dog food. Thats about all I can add. We super socialized this dog - they must have meet 300 people by the time he was 4 months old and has lots of good qualities but trust me - I'm having a hard time remembering them right now!

Donna


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #3333FF">Check out this link: http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/DevelopmentalStages.html


It looks as though he is going through his rebellious stage. Have you had him in any formal obedience classes? </span>


----------



## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #3333FF">Oh ok...just read about the classes. That's good. In the meantime you should concentrate on NILIF.

I have links if you need them. </span>


----------



## Sherush (Jan 12, 2008)

Donna I am sorry, Jesse is a teenager too now 13 months and a great dog but once in a while he gets into (I consider wild puppy mode) and does to some degree you are describing. I don't ignore him I correct him with "NO" in a deep voice and make him lie down and stay and tell him "Calm".


----------



## Superpup (Jun 7, 2007)

I read your first post again and I truly think he is just wanting to play "tough" and you may not be used to it. Teach him what to tug on and how to play, so he leaves your hands and clothing alone!!!
You will be just fine!!


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Gosh, what are you, my twin?







((((Hugs))))







Donna, I totally know how frustrated, scared, overwhelmed, confused, scared, angry, hurt, disappoited, and again-- _scared_-- you feel. This was me with my Grimm when he turned 8 months old. We could be twins, I'm telling ya!









Absolutely understand that his body is going through puberty-- neutered or not. (and, he still has testosterone coursing through his system as the neuter was fairly recent) He wants to not only blow you off, but provoke you into having fun HIS way.. or else! WELL.... this uppitty teen can be calmed by giving him NILIF at home. Already think you do NILIF with him? Up the ante a bit then! Tighten up the NILIF rutine.







(Google 'NILIF')

He will return to being your sweet,







controllable friend.







Right now, he is, like, you know, slicking back his hair, text-messaging his girlfriend, trying to steal money from your purse, and, like, wants you to buy him a Wii. Rip-roaring teenagerhood makes them seem like totally different, uncontrollable dogs!

I say go to that class in January, Up the NILIF at home. And here's the thing: Don't buy him a Wii.







Spend that money (if you don't feel calm enough after reading up on NILIF in your Google search) on a behaviorist to come to your home and work with you-- not him-- to show you how to re-structure things so that he has good, firm structure at home.

Excersise-- walks on lead with ole fogey Mom aren't enough. (Boy, have I learned *that* lesson with my teenager Grimm!







) Racing MADLY after thrown balls in a 2-ball retrieval game that sends his tongue hanging to his knees? That rocks, Mom!







Who can be uppitty and like, you know, cause trouble-- when you have really had a hard workout?

Hang in there. This WILL all resolve for you and he. It will take NILIF, excreise, even a behaviorist if you want help... *but go to that January class. They will have seen teenagerhood rear it's pimply face before! *


----------



## Fransheska (Sep 11, 2008)

im so sorry about what your going through. teenagers are a pain in the ass, no matter what species.. 

((HUGS)) hope it all gets better


----------



## Deuce'sMom (Jul 4, 2008)

I just spoke with his breeder and they feel it is an adolescent thing as well. It has been very quiet around here since we got back this afternoon - he knows how upset I am at him.

Donna


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I see you mentioned 'walks',,how much hard exercise does he get?

My 8mth old requires more than walks,,she needs to be able to really burn off energy daily or she is a bear !!!

Maybe try more offleash exercise because a 'tired dog is a good dog" LOL...

good luck,,oh and I agree with the adolescent thing to,,


----------



## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Do you have a large, fenced-in area you can play in with your dog? Does Deuce love balls and fetch? If so, buy a Chuckit. You will have a tired pup in no time.







I'm glad to hear you're doing obedience classes, you may want to check out agility classes and learn how to play a proper game of tug. He sounds like he might be a really good, drivey dog for agility and other games.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: DonnaBI just spoke with his breeder and they feel it is an adolescent thing as well. It has been very quiet around here since we got back this afternoon - he knows how upset I am at him.
> 
> Donna


Donna, 

He may know that you are upset at him but he has NO IDEA why. Dogs' brains don't work that way. 

I second the advice to step up the NILIF and to give him an outlet for his crazy energy. Rafi likes to play tug and ball...forever. If he sees a tug he starts leaping into the air and trying to snatch it out of my hand!







It is a great outlet for his energy. 

I also recommend reading some general books on dog behavior. I think it will make you feel a little more secure in reading your dog's behavior. Two books that come to mind are "The Other End of the Leash" and "Bones Will Rain from the Sky." Both are available through dogwise.com or amazon. 

Take care!


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SuperpupI read your first post again and I truly think he is just wanting to play "tough" and you may not be used to it. Teach him what to tug on and how to play, so he leaves your hands and clothing alone!!!
> You will be just fine!!


I agree. i don't see aggressive behaviour anywhere in your post. I see a young and impulsive dog, not aware of how big and strong he has become wanting to "force" you to keep playing with him.


----------



## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: LicanAntai
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: SuperpupI read your first post again and I truly think he is just wanting to play "tough" and you may not be used to it. Teach him what to tug on and how to play, so he leaves your hands and clothing alone!!!
> ...










Ditto!

I don't know what it is with mittens and such, but my dogs go totally crazy when I wear my leather gardening gloves (or anything else over my hands). Some people seeing me play (dogs biting in my hands) might think I'm getting attacked by my dogs, but we are having alot of fun and I use it as tool to teach them. Not that I encourage you to do that with your dog since you're obviously confused and scared.

Kicking your dog (I really hate how Cesar treats dogs) in this situation is just going to encourage him to become wilder, since you seem to give in to the play & obviously participate. Igonoring the dog is much more effective to calm him down or show that you disapprove of a behavior.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

No one has mentioned this but it also sounds like you have got a drivey butt-head pup. They will drive you to the brink, turn a corner to being a near saint for a couple of weeks, then offer a new behavior for you to deal with. The good news is that in my experience these firebrands, when they buy the program (and they do buy the program), are terrific dogs. She was challenging but oh boy did I learn a lot from mine! 

Buck up deary. Remember that your frustration is probably misinterpretted as playfulness... Find what humor you can in the situation, search for a channel for that drive that you as well as Mr. Butt-head can enjoy -- There really will be parts of this that you will look back on fondly.... Really.


----------



## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I can totally visualize this, why i just came in with Ty, 8 months old, and he always attacks my leather mitts too and sometimes tries to bite my arms and back to get me to play when he thinks I am going home and he isnt' ready. He loves my leather mitts, so i will be dropping and getting him to bring them back,(I'm practising with toys first so they survive) Then he will learn something valuable.

I think you feel the cold so perhaps are shortening his exercise and his needs are going up with age and he doesn't feel the cold. I do lots of heading for home then bypassing or turning around so when I call it quits it is not so abrupt and it has helped to slow the ättacks". I do lots of walking in deep snow, we can't really do a lot of retrieves in the bush area, and then go to the playground to retrieve and run and then back to deep stuff. 

The jumping in deep stuff wears you out fast. I do lots of about turns so I am making a path but he is running through deep stuff, passing me then turning cause I've reversed and so he must too. I also carry treats and when he is wild I command a sit to distract and that settles him, then I pet him gentle long strokes which I also find calming then off running again so he learns to calm during play.

Good luck I'm sure it is teenager stuff, he still loves you. If you have other dogs you will notice he is rougher with them too, and they will assert more to put him in his place. They know it's a learning, growing phase.


----------



## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Donna,

having gone throught he same thing with a young GSD I fostered named Zoie, I think you may have a problem, and it sould be corrected ASAP. 

As for NILIF, socialization and all this stuff, sometimes it works, but sometimes it does not.

The bottom line is to stop what your pup did, now.

I will never advertise trainers on this board; however, send me a personal E Mail, and I willprvide more background info and a link to the trainer that helped Zoie.

In my opinion what happened is a serious issue.


----------



## tawnyhillshepherds (Mar 30, 2008)

mmmm Diane maybe she could use some Rumor time! I agree though the terror teenage years on some dogs are real tough My boy Blitz is 6 years old now and he was my first GSD(my 5 girls never did) to go through the teenage terror stage. Oh my... They need lots of exercise and walks on leash aren't going to do it Do you have other places you can really play and let him run? As for the mitten thing My newest a baby Malinois started displaying some rather strange behavior trying to lead people around by their hands and it took me a bit to realize it was the gloves people were wearing now that it was cold. I had people feed her while wearing gloves but did tell her no if she tries to hold the gloves.


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I too can "feel your pain" My pup just turned 9 months yesterday. The other day when we were out playing fetch, I got the toy to throw it for her and she came running and and jumped up and bounced off of my chest and throat with all 4 feet. I took one foot straight to the throat! Needless to say I wanted to KILL her. And THAT was the end of playing for the day!


----------



## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

Mandalay has been going through a second childhood as well. She is almost 11 months and over the last month or so has started jumping up at us again. I had her completely broken of jumping ON us and she is now jumping AT us. She also wants to rough house, which would be fine is she could understand that it is not allowed with my 6yo DD, but she does not.

When she jumps on or at us now, I growl at her. Yes, I growl at my dog. Kind've a low "ARGGHH" sound. It makes her stop and gets her attention. At this time, playtime is over and if she continues to act up, she goes to the crate. We also have two terms for going to the crate..."crate" is used if we just want her to go there for some reason and "go to your room" is used in a different tone if she is being bad and needs a time out. It may be the tone more than the words, but she seems to understand the difference as her head and tail will drop if she is being told to go to her room. She also gets a cookie for crate and no cookie for room so she knows there is also a difference.

I would suggest getting a toy that is not so hands on; a chuck it ball or a pair of frisbees or something like this that you can throw and wear him out a little without having to "fight" him to get it away from him. I use two frisbees with Mandi because she has not quite gotten the "give" command down, but she understands "ready" means I am going to throw the 2nd frisbee and she will then drop the 1st one. She is not interested in balls, so we dont have a chuck it.

If it is too cold to be outside for any length of time, we have been playing Mandi's Diner Dash in the house. I take a cup of her kibble and I throw one piece across the room or down the hall. She runs to chase it and she then has to come back to me and sit to get me to throw another piece. This is best done when the dog is hungry or he may not feel like doing much work to get his own dog food.

To step up the Alpha (this may not work with your dog, but it works with Mandi when I notice she is trying to step her way up the home alpha ladder again) I take her food away mid meal. She has to sit to get her food anyway, but then after she has started to eat, I will walk over and take it away and put it up and a few minutes later I will give it back. 

Good luck to you...remember he is a teenager and he needs to be treated like one. He needs to "earn" his trust back with you now.


----------



## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

Max, our rescue project came into our house at one year old exactly. Even in his weakened condition, he has a lot of energy in short bursts and he is just a big puppy. Fortunately he does not jump up, but we do a couple things with him. If he bites or uses his mouth in any way, we yell OUCH and make him feel as if he has hurt us. That stops that behavior real fast. We also use the crate when he is bad, the word is the same but the tone is very different. 

He was trying to be bossy initially and our rescue guide gave us a neat trick. We herd Max by walking through his personal space brushing him out of the way. GSD's being herders themselves, they know right now what is happening to them and it establishes you as boss. He was also trying to herd Clover and she turned away a few times until she had had enough and one day she just turned and let him know in no uncertain terms that THAT WAS ENOUGH! No more herding of Clover. 

We also use the sit command thoughout the day to establish several things and always give praise when he does it, and sometimes treats (definitely not all the time). When he has been bad, I will make him sit to listen to me even if I have to back him into a corner to get him to listen.


----------



## Lola1969 (Mar 6, 2007)

This behavior fit Ozzy to a T about a year ago when he was about 1 year old. Please don't worry. This is not aggression, only him being a hard headed teenager testing his limits. I had a 6 month period where I would acquire new black and blue marks every week from his jumping and biting at my gloves and arms and hands.

He eventually calmed down but I did learn to carry a spray bottle with me and all it took was spraying with water a few times in the face to stop this behavior.

We have no more problems now that he has matured. He is just playing with you and needs to learn what is acceptable and what is not.


----------



## GabbyBond (Dec 1, 2006)

Some great advice here! Stick with it though and you should see results. This teenage bratty phase is exactly why my boy was surrendered to the rescue group. Bond wasn't an angel when we got him, exhibited all the behaviors you explained, but we never gave up. We were frustrated and even close to tears at time but we exercised him, took him through lots of obedience classes and slowly but surely a well behaved dog emerged. There will likely be more ups and downs too, these phases come and go like a roller coaster ride!

Keep up the good work!


----------



## Eve-Lynn (Apr 28, 2008)

I so understand what you are talking about. Link is now 1 and is not a saint yet







but when he was about 7 months old he grabbed at me just after I picked up his poop and while we were struggling (me trying to correct him) the poop bag broke open and ended up all over me. Funny now, not so funny then.


----------

