# Agility Breeders



## SarahMichelle (Apr 8, 2012)

Wildo's thread (http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...n-gsd-lines-nervy-but-fast-3.html#post2595994) really got me thinking about the sport of agility and German Shepherds.

I was wondering are there any GSD breeders that breed mainly for the sport of agility? I would love to see them if there are any. Or if there arent any that breed for agility maybe some breeders that happen to have a good number of their dogs doing well in the sport. 

Im not looking to get a pup from any of these breeders so lines/location/price/ect.. doesnt matter, just feeding my curiosity


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Not a popular question around here. Breeding for sport is frowned upon by the majority here. The better route (in my opinion) is looking for breeders whose dogs are not just succeeding in the sport, but succeeding in a way that interests you. I can elaborate on that: I'm, personally, not interested in a "slow and consistent" MACH. I want a "fast enough to make people stop talking, take notice, compliment, and cheer" kind of MACH. That's what does it for me...

So even though there are quite a few breeders that are producing dogs that are doing well in agility, you really have to look at _how_ they are doing well to see if it aligns with what suits your fancy.

Equally important, something that was brought to light in the thread you linked to, is that training has a LOT to do with how the dog responds. The pedigree will definitely influence speed and willingness, but like Lies and Wolfstraum (Lee) pointed out- there are LOTs of animals (Lee cited horses) that weren't particularly breed for speed but ended up being quite fast indeed. And certainly, there are dogs that weren't breed for speed but have it based on training methods as well. That's not something to dismiss!

I can think of only one breeder particularly that I think breeds specifically for agility but I'm not 100% on that. I'll PM you.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I hope not....the breed is so much more than agility. To get a German Shepherd and do agility is fantastic....to breed GS for agility....not in the interest of the breed.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Quite a few of the better working line breeders are loving that they have dogs also doing well in agility. So while they may not be specifically and only breeding with agility in mind, if they have drivey working dogs that are healthy and smart... they will be ideal for agility as well as many other things!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't think agility is popular enough in the GSD world to be doing that. My club had an agility trial and we had so few shepherds there it was embarrassing. Not sure if the people competing on a regular basis have noticed that or not, but its definitely not a popular sport among shepherds in our area.

So yeah I don't believe any breeders are breeding for it. Or at least I hope they aren't. First, there aren't enough people that you can guarantee 5-10 pups each litter going to an agility home, and second they shouldn't just breed for X sport.

Not thread jacking but I saw more malanois at our trial than shepherds...and considering how much less popular those dogs are than shepherds its pretty amazing that there are more in the agility ring. I do bet there are BCs that are being bred for agility though, seems like agility to a BC is like Schutzhund to a GSD.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

We have seen sportpac dogs - local flyball enthusiasts Marty McCann and wife pretty well ruled with their McCann vs McCann flyball dogs specially bred for this sport. They were hummingbird fast-but could you , would you want to live with them? NO.!
GSD in particular with their needs to be versatile 
are very complex highly intelligent animals (should be) and that requires significant care to assemble and maintain all those qualities. Speed can not be a priority.
Also to accommodate speed there would be shifts in the structure which ideally for a GSD is that of an endurance trotting animal.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

martemchik said:


> I do bet there are BCs that are being bred for agility though, seems like agility to a BC is like Schutzhund to a GSD.


Yes, but don't forget herding! I saw a really pretty red BC just this weekend and the first question I thought about asking them was if the do agility and herd. Must be about as frustrating as GSD owners being asked if they do SchH. Then again, I've very seldom been asked about SchH- and every time I have I was wearing the 2012 Working Dog Championship shirt, lol!

I completely agree though. There are far to FEW GSDs in agility for any breeder to be breeding specifically for agility alone. The single instance I can think of I believe is an extremely small hobby breeder with only a couple breedings total. In fact, I'm not sure it's even fair to say that she breeds for agility, more so- agility just so happens to be the only sport that any of her dogs happen to do, and they do extremely well at it...


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## KristiM (Oct 18, 2011)

There are worse things that you could be breeding for than agility.... I could name a handful of GSDs from my old schutzhund club that wouldn't be able to handle an agility trial environment and yet do well in schutzhund. Im not saying that GSDs should be bred for agility.... there are a lot of people breeding border collies for agility and they run into a lot of the same problems as the GSDs bred with just sport in mind. Crazy high drives, not very stable, general lack of a brain. A nice working dog is a nice working dog. They don't need to be bred specifically for one particular sport, a good dog will do well at whatever you ask of them.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

carmspack said:


> Also to accommodate speed there would be shifts in the structure which ideally for a GSD is that of an endurance trotting animal.


Not to go TOO far off topic, but I just noticed this isn't the first time you've stated a "would be" change in structure to accommodate speed, Carmen. But I can't help think about just how similar a Border Collie is to a GSD when it comes to conformation and proportions. I almost feel I could easily critique a Border Collie knowing (a little) about GSD conformation. And I suspect that a BC owner could easily critique a GSD knowing about BC conformation. Border Collies are lightening fast and very agile, yet are ultimately very close to "correct" GSD conformation (though obviously smaller). Why is it that you think there would be a need for a change in conformation? Do realize- nobody is requesting sight hound like speed as in a Greyhound or Whippet. THAT _would_ require an _obvious_ change in conformation. But a proper croup length and angle coupled with a front that can, as you have often stated, "get out of the way" certainly should be able to allow for sufficient and impressive speed. Do you disagree?


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

We were at a pretty large agility meet in the earlier part of the summer and there were 11 GSD's. I thought that was a pretty good showing until I looked around and saw how many BC's there were...they were everywhere.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Eleven GSDs is a great showing at any all-breed show in my opinion! Must have been fun to watch!


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

wildo said:


> Eleven GSDs is a great showing at any all-breed show in my opinion! Must have been fun to watch!


It was a blast, they had two courses going at the same time. (courses...rings? Whatever you call them. )


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't know of any GSD breeders breeding specifically for agility (as in, only breeding GSDs that have high titles in agility).


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

wildo said:


> Yes, but don't forget herding! I saw a really pretty red BC just this weekend and the first question I thought about asking them was if the do agility and herd. Must be about as frustrating as GSD owners being asked if they do SchH. Then again, I've very seldom been asked about SchH- and every time I have I was wearing the 2012 Working Dog Championship shirt, lol!
> 
> I completely agree though. There are far to FEW GSDs in agility for any breeder to be breeding specifically for agility alone. The single instance I can think of I believe is an extremely small hobby breeder with only a couple breedings total. In fact, I'm not sure it's even fair to say that she breeds for agility, more so- agility just so happens to be the only sport that any of her dogs happen to do, and they do extremely well at it...


Oh absolutely they herd! But I figure less people herd with their BCs than people do SchH with their GSDs. Although SchH training places are few and far between...you don't need too much advanced equipment. With herding...you kind of need sheep and a much larger space. So pretty much a farm. Agility is available everywhere so I understand why people do it, and although a lot of the same traits used in herding are used in agility...you can totally see dogs being bred for just that sport and not just being well rounded working dogs.

But breeding for sport is just human...we all want to be the best, the fastest, the strongest bite, the best tracker, and the best whatever you're doing with your dog. So agility people don't just want a good BC, they want the fastest, they want to get those MACH points as fast as possible.

I started training agility a few weeks ago! Adding to the GSDs that will compete! 11 GSDs at a 300-600 dog agility trial is kind of small when you think about the fact that its the 2nd most popular AKC breed.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

martemchik said:


> Although SchH training places are few and far between...you don't need too much advanced equipment.


Er...you need a full size field, six blinds, a 1m jump, a-frame, dumbbells (not cheap), several acres of land for tracking and most importantly a good helper if you're starting a new dog! I'm driving 2.5 hours each way every time and I don't need anything advanced? *snort* I can do herding four different places within 45 minutes.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

This is an interesting thought and probably relevant to this discussion....

A friend of mine who is very active in BCs says that people breeding BCs for sport like flyball and agility have found that after 3 generations, they need to go back and re-introduce herding bred bloodlines because otherwise they lose some of the traits that made them choose BCs in the first place (perhaps things like control in high drive and handler responsiveness).


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Most definitely interesting, and I think it's a relevant observation about breeding GSDs as well. I do wonder if the GSDs doing well in agility have traceable herding lines within a few generations in their pedigree.


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