# I'm Worried.



## Jusdy (Mar 14, 2014)

As some of you know, I own a 2-year-old(soon to be 3) female GSD that has major aggression issues. At first I wasn't too worried about it until she starting attacking people. I'm not talking about the fearful nip that GSD's give when they're afraid. I'm talking about the full on latch onto arm type deal. 

Ivy was a rescue dog that I adopted last year and her previous owner had tried various methods to get her to stop, but eventually gave up when no improvement showed. I've had Ivy for a year now and things seem to be getting out of hand. She is extremely aggressive towards strangers and other dogs. It has gotten so bad that people no longer want to visit my house because they are afraid of her. 

However, Ivy hasn't showed any aggression towards me at all. While she's eating I'll take the bowl away and she's just fine. I done various tests to see if she aggressive towards me and not once has she growled or snapped at me. It's only strangers. Since I've had Ivy, she's bitten 4 different people that have come to visit me and all of them has had to get stitches. 

Yesterday's was the worse. Yesterday, my Aunt needed to use the restroom and dropped by my house. I was at work at the time when this happened. My Aunt used my spare key under the mat and went inside. Ivy was also inside laying down in the living room. Ivy saw my Aunt, and thinking she was an intruder, attacked. Ivy latched onto my Aunt's arm and wouldn't let go. My Aunt panicked and was able to drag Ivy(who was still attached to her arm) into the doorway of the bathroom. My Aunt tried smashing Ivy's head between the door and the door frame to get her to let go. It didn't work. While Ivy still had her fangs in her arm, My Aunt was able to rip her arm out and locked herself in the bathroom. My Aunt dialed 911 and had to crawl out the bathroom window to get outside. 

In the end, my Aunt had to get 23 stitches in her arm. I don't know what to do at this point with Ivy anymore. My Aunt didn't press charges only because of me. I love Ivy with all my heart's contempt but I can't do this anymore. I have 4 other GSD's that are complete sweethearts, but Ivy is just horrible toward strangers. I need help. I don't want to put her down, but I don't know how to change her behavior.


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## Jusdy (Mar 14, 2014)

Bump.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Put her down. Or keep her contained when you aren't with her and especially if you think you'll be having company. Your poor aunt! I hope she will heal with no lasting effects(mental as well as physical) To allow her to bite 4 times is 4 times too many


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

You either need to hire a professional trainer or find somewhere to rehome this dog (somewhere with lots of experience dealing with dogs like this). 
If she's bitten 4 people that come see you, why don't you crate her or something when you aren't home. It sounds like she needs to be managed a lot better.

Sorry you have to deal with an aggressive dog


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I would say, if you don't want her to be put down, then she is crated when you aren't there. No matter how good she is in the house. Just too much of a risk. Manage her a bit better in that sense and I think you could be fine. Accept the fact that she is aggressive and don't put her in those situations.. at this point, IMO, you really only have the option to manage her or find a REALLY experienced home for her that will manage her aggression.


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## Jusdy (Mar 14, 2014)

I do crate her. The first time she bit someone was a week after I got her and my brother came over. She got him on the hand. The second time she bit my neighbor's arm when she came to visit. After that, I started crating Ivy. The third time we were walking by my 10-year-old niece on the sidewalk and Ivy got her in the leg. The fourth time was the issue with my Aunt. I've own German Shepherds all my life and all of them are extremely well behaved toward people. Jorden (my 4-year-old and the oldest) is so friendly that I take her to the nearby children's hospital to visit the sick patients once a month. All of my other dogs are great with people except Ivy and I think it had something to do with her previous owner.
Ivy below:


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## Bob_McBob (Nov 15, 2012)

Would any rescue take and rehome a dog with four major human bite incidents?

OP, why on earth does your aunt have free access to the house with this dog uncrated?!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You should not allow someone to use your home for a restroom when you are not there, and then blame the dog. That one, I just can't blame the dog for. If you give people the key to your house, and let them in whenever, the dog with a problem should be securely crated or kenneled.

The other incidents may be different though. If you care about this dog and she is good with you, then you will crate or kennel her when you have visitors, or you will not have visitors. 

The dog is yours. It is up to you to put her down, or manage her so that she does not get the opportunity to sink her fangs into anyone else. 

One bite and you know that your dog will bite under certain circumstances, and all subsequent bites are on the owner. Allowing your dog to bite multiple people will eventually bite you in your pocketbook as well as in your heart. If you continue as you are, you are going to get sued, your dog will be put down -- no longer your choice, their choice, and you may have to deal with know that you cause disfiguring injury or even death of someone, maybe someone you care about a lot. 

I am not saying that you should put your dog down. I am saying that you need to figure out how to manage your dog before something tragic happens. You need to crate or kennel your dog when strangers are around. You need to change your leadership style. You need to get a trainer/behaviorist on board. Maybe you need to euthanize your dog. If you cannot manage the dog properly, then euthanize the dog. 

But buying a dog breed known for protection/guarding behavior and blaming the dog for protecting your home from a non-resident when you were not there, well, that seems a bit unfair.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Even if your aunt isn't pressing charges, Ivy must be quarantined right? Dr.s always report dog bites to AC.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jusdy said:


> I do crate her. The first time she bit someone was a week after I got her and my brother came over. She got him on the hand. The second time she bit my neighbor's arm when she came to visit. After that, I started crating Ivy. The third time we were walking by my 10-year-old niece on the sidewalk and Ivy got her in the leg. The fourth time was the issue with my Aunt. I've own German Shepherds all my life and all of them are extremely well behaved toward people. Jorden (my 4-year-old and the oldest) is so friendly that I take her to the nearby children's hospital to visit the sick patients once a month. All of my other dogs are great with people except Ivy and I think it had something to do with her previous owner.


Don't take her for a walk with a kid unless she is muzzled. She BITES people!!! 

This is so frustrating. Everyone of these people, and all the people those people talk to, and the hospitals and bite lists are getting really bad opinions of GSDs. Because one dog is allowed to bite and bite and bite.

How can you put a little kid into danger like that? 

If you crate the dog, how did she get your aunt? Did your aunt open her crate? 

What have you done so far to manage the situation or to work with the dog?


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## Jusdy (Mar 14, 2014)

Bob_McBob said:


> Would any rescue take and rehome a dog with four major human bite incidents?
> 
> OP, why on earth does your aunt have free access to the house with this dog uncrated?!


I didn't even know she was there. I was at work when this all happened. My Aunt has visited before but that was before I got Ivy. She dropped by to use the bathroom (must of had to go really bad). She knows I always place the spare key under the mat and that's how she got in. I wasn't expecting any visitors.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

I have a dog that could easily be Ivy without clear management. 

If we aren't home, he is crated. If guests come over, he is crated until we determine if a meeting is appropriate or not. When we go out, he has a muzzle on. Clear, concise management. There is no room for error with this type of dog. 

As far as rehoming these dogs? No. The only responsible option is humanely pts.


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## Jusdy (Mar 14, 2014)

selzer said:


> Don't take her for a walk with a kid unless she is muzzled. She BITES people!!!
> 
> This is so frustrating. Everyone of these people, and all the people those people talk to, and the hospitals and bite lists are getting really bad opinions of GSDs. Because one dog is allowed to bite and bite and bite.
> 
> ...


The whole kid incident was actually the child's fault to be honest with you. I was walking Ivy alone and my niece who was supposed to be in the backyard with the other GSD's ran up behind me. I didn't see her until Ivy bit her.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Sorry, it isn't the kid's fault. You have a human aggressive dog. You take her out without being muzzled, you are risking a bite to anyone you meet.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't want to make you feel worse, but this dog has bitten now, 4 times, bites that require stitches..After the 1st bite, you should have been on alert,,after the 2nd bite you should have been on HIGH alert.

I know you didn't know your aunt was dropping by, but I would think at this point, your family/friends are aware of her 'issue'???

You have been darn lucky that no one has sued you for everything you've got with this sue happy world we live in. You can't blame a kid running up behind you for the dog to bite..

With that, you have two options, ABSOLUTE MANAGEMENT, which would include, NO CONTACT with any human other than yourself, or euthanize her before you lose everything you own..She is a ticking time bomb and the bites/attacks are getting worse and worse


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jusdy said:


> I didn't even know she was there. I was at work when this all happened. My Aunt has visited before but that was before I got Ivy. She dropped by to use the bathroom (must of had to go really bad). She knows I always place the spare key under the mat and that's how she got in. I wasn't expecting any visitors.


So your aunt has never met your dog before, comes into your home and gets bitten. That is on you/your aunt. 

The first bite, maybe dog was in transition, and your brother was the unfortunate recipient.

The second bite, maybe I can understand, that now the dog is settled, and you didn't think the dog would attack someone you let in while you were right there. Ok, so now you knew. 

The third bite which is the worst in my opinion, a child that you were walking with with your dog. This should have never happened. If you were going to put the dog down, this is when you should have done it. If you have an excuse for the dog on this one, the child wore bright pink shorts with a bright purple shirt or something equally bazaar. The child should not have been in this position with a dog that bit two people already. But at that point, you have a people aggressive dog that will bite children.

This bite you wouldn't be concerned with at all if it was a guy going for your TV and laptop. But this is the one that is making you seek help. 

We are not help here. Sorry. You don't know whether any one of us even has a dog, much less experience with a people-aggressive dog. You are beyond the point where you can rely on free advice on a message board. Ante up and get a trainer/behaviorist, and protect people from your dog. Or put the poor thing down.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I am sorry. But this dog has 4 major bites in a year. You are not managing her at all. After the first bite, the next two are gross negligence on your part. That may sound harsh, but I stand by it. 

I won't tell you what to do, but I would put her to sleep. The fact that you have been lucky enough so far that you have not been sued, is a miracle. Shocking actually. The dog is dangerous, flat out. Unless you are prepared to have her muzzled all the time, she is dangerous. 

You need to be realistic about your ability to handle and manage this dog. 


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## Bob_McBob (Nov 15, 2012)

Jusdy said:


> Ivy was a rescue dog that I adopted last year and her previous owner had tried various methods to get her to stop, but eventually gave up when no improvement showed.


Get her to stop what? Does she have a bite history with the previous owner too?


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Agreed with gsdsar. If you have even remotely the sort of relationship with people where they might drop by your house and let themselves in, the dog needs to be contained at all times. The fact that you let this dog around a child is unfathomable. OP, I know how hard it is, especially when you love the dog... but when a dog has that many screws loose, it's no life for them to live. Euthanasia is really the most humane thing for the dog. Giving this dog to ANYONE else would be incredibly irresponsible. At this point you need to sit down and decide if you're willing/able to make the commitment to 100%, extreme, totalitarian management... or PTS.


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

I just know I am going to catch flack for my post here because all the GOOD mods. are on board. This dog/animal is in the wrong hands. A suited home should be with a very stern male, who has a handle on the situation, lives alone, control of the dog 100%, not afraid at all. If I was a single man of 30, this is the exact dog I would wish for, living ALONE in the country. The key under the door mat, the 4 bites, blood drawn and stitches, the owner needs to own up to this. Children and this dog is not plausible, period, you knew this the first week. I am going to hope the down does not get put down, because she did her job, 110%, there are gas station bathrooms across the Country and now "the owner has been put on notice."






The dog is gorgeous, the song herein represents my feelings.. :help:


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

this dog could not be rehomed, it has a serious bite history, and the OP may be held liable for it should it go somewhere else and do more serious damage


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Sometimes it's more humane to put a dog down then have it live it's life basically with one eye open and always on edge. I bet this dog never settles and relaxes. 

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## Redrider469 (Jul 19, 2013)

At this point I don't think you can change her behavior. You need to manage every aspect of her life and keep her away from people. I'd also keep family out of your home if you cannot be present.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

sehrgutcsg said:


> I just know I am going to catch flack for my post here because all the GOOD mods. are on board. This dog/animal is in the wrong hands. A suited home should be with a very stern male, who has a handle on the situation, lives alone, control of the dog 100%, not afraid at all. If I was a single man of 30, this is the exact dog I would wish for, living ALONE in the country. The key under the door mat, the 4 bites, blood drawn and stitches, the owner needs to own up to this. Children and this dog is not plausible, period, you knew this the first week. I am going to hope the down does not get put down, because she did her job, 110%, there are gas station bathrooms across the Country and now "the owner has been put on notice."
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LolVaIrJ60s
> 
> The dog is gorgeous, the song herein represents my feelings.. :help:


I watched all 5 minutes of the u-tube. Can someone please give me the gist of what is was about, what it said?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't fault you for leaving the dog out while you weren't at home, and not expecting someone to come in while you were gone. I leave my dogs out too,and I know Onyx would probably do the same thing to someone she doesn't know. I leave my dogs out to protect the place, they can't do that if they are contained in a crate. 
BUT, no one I know would ever, ever come in when we aren't at home and NOT expect to get bitten. Onyx has a reputation with my family, they all know she's a threat. That said, with my management, Onyx doesn't have a bite history.

Jusdy, please get with a qualified trainer that deals with aggression if you decide to let her remain. Don't rehome her, or dump her, she deserves to be let go responsibly.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Something about being out if this world? 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jusdy said:


> The whole kid incident was actually the child's fault to be honest with you. I was walking Ivy alone and my niece who was supposed to be in the backyard with the other GSD's ran up behind me. I didn't see her until Ivy bit her.


I hope you are not just trying to get loonies like me going when the moon is new. I missed this, must have been typing. But you have a lot of excuses for your dog. But most of us, save maybe Dave Winners, do not have a dog that has bitten 4 times. 

You are totally blaming the dog, but making excuses for it. The problem lies in your management of a dangerous dog. The last bite is not on the dog, but it is on you, because you have a key under your mat, and relatives that think they are allowed to enter.

Blaming a 10 year old kid for a dog bite from an ordinary dog that maybe is unsocialized, or fearful, etc, is one thing. Blaming a kid for a bite from a dog who has sent two other people off for stitches is unfathomable. 

It is you. You are responsible. You are at fault. Everyone on this site should be ready to stone you because of what you are doing to our beloved breed. And it is no comfortable place for your pet either. You have had this dog for a year, and I haven't heard you say that you have done anything in the way of training or dealing with her problems that you knew she had. Please, if you love the breed, do not allow a fifth victim.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I don't want to make you feel worse, but this dog has bitten now, 4 times, bites that require stitches..After the 1st bite, you should have been on alert,,after the 2nd bite you should have been on HIGH alert.
> 
> I know you didn't know your aunt was dropping by, but I would think at this point, your family/friends are aware of her 'issue'???
> 
> ...


All of the above. A child, or anyone else for that matter, should never have been close enough to her when you have her outside that she could bite them, or she should be muzzled. If people come over she should be crated in another room with the door closed, she should never be loose. Everyone you know that's aware that you have a spare key hidden outside and might think to use it should have been made thoroughly aware of the situation, and warned not to go in the house when you're not there, or you should have her crated or otherwise securely confined every time you leave the house, or both. 

If you fail to take these kinds of precautions, this will happen again. My dogs are confined in a chain link pen in the garage with a dog door to an outside run when we leave, and they've never harmed anyone. We don't have a hidden key, and the only people that have a key to our house would be using it in an emergency only. And still, our dogs are confined. If you don't want to do that, then you can't leave a hidden key around that people could just drop by and use to let themselves in. If you're determined that euthanasia is not an option, then the strictest possible management is absolutely mandatory.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

gsdsar said:


> Something about being out if this world?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks, slow today.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Even if your aunt isn't pressing charges, Ivy must be quarantined right? Dr.s always report dog bites to AC.


Pretty much, our oldest daughter was bitten in the face by a friends yellow lab. They want the name/address of the owner. The owner had up date shot records so they were able to keep the dog, but all information must be collected at the doctors office/ER. We lived in Spokane at the time, so same as the OP.


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## K9POPPY (Mar 6, 2014)

4 bites????? I am sorry to hear this, something is really WRONG here- this dog is going to really hurt someone- Bob


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I normally do not agree with putting down dogs because it makes me sad and I often find the dog to be innocent but 4 terrible bites? I agree with the others that say that she should be put to sleep. I would not be able to rehome a dog that has inflicted bad bites on 4 different people.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I lived with a HA dog for 13 years. You have to manage 100% and never let your guard down. This dog can not be rehomed. No rescue will take this dog. It is a disservice to the dog and to any potential owner to rehome this dog. 

You have 2 choices
1) 100% management 100% of the time
2) Euthanize her.



JakodaCD OA said:


> I don't want to make you feel worse, but this dog has bitten now, 4 times, bites that require stitches..After the 1st bite, you should have been on alert,,after the 2nd bite you should have been on HIGH alert.
> 
> I know you didn't know your aunt was dropping by, but I would think at this point, your family/friends are aware of her 'issue'???
> 
> ...





gsdsar said:


> I am sorry. But this dog has 4 major bites in a year. You are not managing her at all. After the first bite, the next two are gross negligence on your part. That may sound harsh, but I stand by it.
> 
> I won't tell you what to do, but I would put her to sleep. The fact that you have been lucky enough so far that you have not been sued, is a miracle. Shocking actually. The dog is dangerous, flat out. Unless you are prepared to have her muzzled all the time, she is dangerous.
> 
> ...


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

These aren't even 4 typical bites. They're 4 serious bites that required medical treatment. Your dog doesn't distinguish b/w children & adults, family & strangers, friend & foe. This dog is not only seriously aggressive, she seriously lacks judgment. Nor does she temper her aggression very well. As bad as it was, the situation with your aunt could have been much, much worse.

IF you keep her & decide to manage her properly, please keep an eagle eye on her, especially if she's sick, uncomfortable or aging. IF stressed, sick or weakened, her 'targets' could shift to include you.


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## jetdog (Oct 9, 2005)

Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but there are human and dog lives at stake... This dog is being grossly mismanaged. The dog has a serious dangerous aggression issues and needs someone VERY experienced in dealing with those types of dogs/issues. I don't think the OP is that person, as they've clearly stated all their other dogs were "nice dogs." Maybe they do not have the skill level needed to manage a dog like Ivy, hence the 4 bites - how many more bites were there with the previous owner???

I have a dog with issues similar though not quite as severe as Ivy's, she needs to be extensively managed every hour of every day, no breaks, no letting down of our guard. That being said, she has gotten the supervision and training that she needs here and has never caused any injury or harm because we monitor her constantly and manage all her interactions with extreme caution. NO ONE would ever be allowed in my house unannounced, that would be a disaster waiting to happen! Same thing with allowing a child to run up and startle the dog into biting, with a dog like Ivy, her handler needs to be aware of her surroundings at all times. The child should have been stopped before she got into biting range.

The OP seems to be setting this dog up for failure. And I don't agree with the dog being pts at this point, IMO many of the biting incidents could have been avoided with proper handling and management of an aggressive GSD.

Not everyone is cut out to own a dog like this and sometimes a person needs to come forward and do the right thing for the dog. A dog like Ivy will always be a liability and she needs to be with someone who is fully aware and capable of dealing with a dog like that.

I would take her, bite history and all, if I had the space and time (and money!) for another dog. But sadly, I'm full here at the inn, and a dog like Ivy would be a huge responsibility that I can't take on right now, not until my ice queen is gone anyway.

Maybe there is someone experienced and capable of dealing with a dog like Ivy that would take her? With full disclosure of all her bite incidents and her aggression issues? That would be aware of the liability they are accepting? I hope there is someone out there because I hate to see Ivy euthanized when I believe better, more cautious handling could've helped avoid most of her bite incidents.

No disrespect to the OP, Ivy is a difficult case and I think maybe you're in just a bit over your head with her.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

selzer said:


> I watched all 5 minutes of the u-tube. Can someone please give me the gist of what is was about, what it said?


*"Planet Claire"*


Ahhhahhahhahh

She came from Planet Claire
I knew she came from there
She drove a Plymouth Satellite
Faster than the speed of light

Planet Claire has pink air
All the trees are red
No one ever dies there
No one has a head

Ahhhahhhahhahh

Some say she's from Mars
Or one of the seven stars
That shine after 3:30 in the morning
WELL SHE ISN'T

Ahhhahhhahhahhahhahh


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Find someone from Planet Claire, or make your house the dog's planet. With a few other dogs in the house, it will be a lot of work. Are you up to it?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

jetdog said:


> Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but there are human and dog lives at stake... This dog is being grossly mismanaged. The dog has a serious dangerous aggression issues and needs someone VERY experienced in dealing with those types of dogs/issues. I don't think the OP is that person, as they've clearly stated all their other dogs were "nice dogs." Maybe they do not have the skill level needed to manage a dog like Ivy, hence the 4 bites - how many more bites were there with the previous owner???
> 
> I have a dog with issues similar though not quite as severe as Ivy's, she needs to be extensively managed every hour of every day, no breaks, no letting down of our guard. That being said, she has gotten the supervision and training that she needs here and has never caused any injury or harm because we monitor her constantly and manage all her interactions with extreme caution. NO ONE would ever be allowed in my house unannounced, that would be a disaster waiting to happen! Same thing with allowing a child to run up and startle the dog into biting, with a dog like Ivy, her handler needs to be aware of her surroundings at all times. The child should have been stopped before she got into biting range.
> 
> ...


I am not disagreeing with what you say, but the problem is how do you know how to find someone with the experience and willingness to take the dog off of this person's hands? 

I can't take on an aggressive dog. I have too many dogs as it is, and even if I did not, I have kids that come over, and I have another dog that is special needs. And I think you will find that across the board. Dog lovers have dogs. No one is standing in line for a really tough dog to work with. It is a commitment not to be taken lightly. And not everyone who CAN manage such a dog is looking to take one on. 

I think the owner has to either really step it up and take responsibility, or euthanize the dog. If someone with the experience and desire to take this dog presents themselves to the OP, and he is satisfied that the person is what he claims to be, than another decision can be made.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

From another thread..
*Update- The muzzles have come off! Ivy has gotten better and will only growl/snap at Kaiya when Kaiya runs to me or when I pet her. I am seeing some stranger issues though. Yesterday, I had my Aunt come over (Ivy was outside) and when she went to give me a hug, Kaiya jumped up and snapped at her. She bit her on the arm, not enough to draw blood, but it did leave red marks. I was shocked but Kaiya was only protecting me. She only knew my Aunt for ten seconds and saw it has a sign of attacking me. I did correct her by say "no" in my "Alpha" voice....
and another...Well when I first got Ivy (who had just turned 2 at the time), I already had Jorden and they were fine with each other but when whenever people come to visit and bring their dogs with them all of **** breaks loose. I recently bought a male GSD puppy from a breeder..
If I'm counting correctly you've added 4 gsd's in the last year, one has bitten 4 time, one has bitten once. Plus 2 are under a year old. It seems like a lot to take on and be able to manage well. I think it sounds like too much too handle. Complete management with muzzles and crates are the only way anyone or any dog can be safe. I would not be happy if this situation was anywhere near my home.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

As much as I would love to see someone that was able to handle these issues step up and offer to take Ivy, I don't think that's realistic.

So as I see it, you're back to the two options outlined by so many others:
1) Absolute rock solid management with the help of a great behaviorist
2) Euthanize

I wish I could say I'd like to see you take the management route, but at this point I don't see any evidence that you have fully accepted the true depth of Ivy's problem, or that you have the skills necessary to manage it properly. If you do decide to try to manage her, I would say that this is the end of her contact with anyone but you for the rest of her life. Period. If she is not in your presence and under your control, she is crated. If anyone besides you is in the house, she is crated in another room. Period. If she is outside the house for any length of time be it hours or seconds, she is muzzled. Always. 

I know this is extremely difficult. I've been in this exact situation. My last dog was an extreme biter. He got in one bite and we went immediately to management and working heavily with a behavioralist. I have experience with extremely aggressive dogs, so management was nothing new to me. Even so, his problems were simply too much and he posed too great a risk to other people. His second bite (me) was the point where he was PTS. As much as you love the dog, you have to consider the risk you are putting those you love in if you decide to keep this dog. And consider the fact that if Ivy is carrying out severe, damaging bites on adults, children, friends, and strangers, there is something in her view of the world that is not quite right and her life is most likely one of constant fear and stress. It is not a pleasant life. It may be hard on you, but don't rule out the option that euthanasia may not be the bad option you consider it to be now. It could be her release from a life of constant fear, anxiety and mistrust.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

your aunt got bitten by the new foster bomb dog and still opened the door with her own key to use the bathroom when you werent home??
very brave or foolish woman


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

how is this dog not already impounded and euthanized by a/c if 4 bites took people to the er to be sewn up?


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## jetdog (Oct 9, 2005)

Maybe I just feel for this dog... I don't know. My HA girl in most average homes could've had a 4 bite history and been euthanized. But here, she has been a valued loved member of our family, we just use caution whenever she is out in public or interacting with people she doesn't know very well. Constant lifelong training has made her controllable around strange people and strange dogs. She can be taken anywhere without incident, provided we manage and supervise her situation at all times. 

I DO see the point that it is unrealistic for someone to step in and take on a dog like Ivy - but I know I would willingly do it, and I would be able to deal with her issues. I wish I had the room!

I just feel angry that this dog was repeatedly (not once, not twice, etc., but 4 times!) put in situations that she felt she had to bite. MAYBE if the OP finally takes this dangerous behavior seriously and consults a behaviorist or trainer that specializes in aggression, Ivy could be helped. But it must be understood that she will need lifelong management and consistent ongoing training. A dog like Ivy is a constant liability.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

jetdog said:


> Maybe I just feel for this dog... I don't know.


Understandable.....especially if you can relate but I tend to look at it from the point of view of how damaging this type of dog and it's management or lack thereof is for our breed.......


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Where were the other dogs while your aunt was being mauled? You have how many? Five?


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Your profile says you are a "certified dog trainer." You're a "certified dog trainer", yet you're coming onto a GSD forum for advice on training your 4X bite history dog....I'm befuddled.


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

selzer said:


> Don't take her for a walk with a kid unless she is muzzled. She BITES people!!!
> 
> This is so frustrating. Everyone of these people, and all the people those people talk to, and the hospitals and bite lists are getting really bad opinions of GSDs. Because one dog is allowed to bite and bite and bite.
> 
> ...


And this OP is a dog trainer?! 

*-*Summer*-*


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> I am sorry. But this dog has 4 major bites in a year. You are not managing her at all. After the first bite, the next two are gross negligence on your part. That may sound harsh, but I stand by it.
> 
> I won't tell you what to do, but I would put her to sleep. The fact that you have been lucky enough so far that you have not been sued, is a miracle. Shocking actually. The dog is dangerous, flat out. Unless you are prepared to have her muzzled all the time, she is dangerous.
> 
> ...


+1

*-*Summer*-*


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

ksotto333 said:


> From another thread..
> *Update- The muzzles have come off! Ivy has gotten better and will only growl/snap at Kaiya when Kaiya runs to me or when I pet her. I am seeing some stranger issues though. Yesterday, I had my Aunt come over (Ivy was outside) and when she went to give me a hug, Kaiya jumped up and snapped at her. She bit her on the arm, not enough to draw blood, but it did leave red marks. I was shocked but Kaiya was only protecting me. She only knew my Aunt for ten seconds and saw it has a sign of attacking me. I did correct her by say "no" in my "Alpha" voice....
> and another...Well when I first got Ivy (who had just turned 2 at the time), I already had Jorden and they were fine with each other but when whenever people come to visit and bring their dogs with them all of **** breaks loose. I recently bought a male GSD puppy from a breeder..
> If I'm counting correctly you've added 4 gsd's in the last year, one has bitten 4 time, one has bitten once. Plus 2 are under a year old. It seems like a lot to take on and be able to manage well. I think it sounds like too much too handle. Complete management with muzzles and crates are the only way anyone or any dog can be safe. I would not be happy if this situation was anywhere near my home.


Wait. So which is it?! Did the aunt get bitten and require 23 stitches or did she get bitten but not hard enough to draw blood? 

*-*Summer*-*


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## Bob_McBob (Nov 15, 2012)

SummerGSDLover said:


> Wait. So which is it?! Did the aunt get bitten and require 23 stitches or did she get bitten but not hard enough to draw blood?


The minor bite was a separate incident with a different dog (Kaiya) from another thread. The aunt later came over and let herself in and was badly bitten by Ivy (dog from this thread).


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Is this thread real?


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

What Selzer said....I agree.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

holland said:


> Is this thread real?


My sentiments exactly... :crazy:

And just in case it is, OP, I think the dog should be euthed. I'm sorry to say it, but I do. You are not in control of this situation and you don't seem to be able to manage a dog like this. I think it's in everyone's best interests if your dog is humanely PTS.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Jetdog, I understand that you feel for the dog. Assuming that what has been posted here is true, I don't think this dog is salvageable. I don't say this with anger, animosity or hatred. The only emotions I feel for this poor girl are regret & sadness. She isn't to blame for what she is, however she is still dangerously unpredictable & hugely, inappropriately aggressive. Although it isn't her fault, she's a menace. Again, this assumes that the info here is factual & accurate. I understand why some people are questioning that. IF true, there is a great deal that hasn't been satisfactorily explained by the OP, however I still base my thoughts & opinions on the information that has been given..


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## jetdog (Oct 9, 2005)

I guess there's a part of me that hates that many are advising to put this dog to sleep based on what has been posted... when what has been posted clearly lays much of the blame in these incidents directly on the owner. Bad management. Setting the dog up to fail. Putting the dog in situations where even a stable dog might bite (the aunt coming in unannounced with no one at home).

No doubt Ivy is a dangerous dog, WITH this particular owner, yes. With that I agree. 

Is Ivy an asset to the breed, most definitely not, but sentenced to die when mistakes were made by everyone involved in these bites. Hmm, just doesn't seem right.

Hopefully the OP is getting some help with Ivy, and is going to commit to working with her and managing her for the long haul; if she isn't willing to do that then... I'm sure we all know the alternative.

Wish the OP would post and let us know what decisions have been made regarding Ivy.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

If there is truth to this thread the dog has seriously bitten someone 4 times...personally if I were looking for a dog this dog would not be a candidate ...there are lots of dogs in shelters who deserve a good home and have no bite history.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Whether it's the owners fault or not, they have proven that they are not capable of managing the dog and its issues. That is the reality of the situation.

There are worse things than being dead. It's unfortunate and sad, yes. But the animal is not left to suffer neglect or abuse or being dumped from home after home, and the public is safe.

Like Holland said, there are a great many dogs that aren't a danger to society, looking for homes. 

I don't doubt for a moment that the owner loves the dog very much and is doing their best, but they don't seem to be able to provide the management this dog will need for the rest of it's life. Rehoming a dog like this would be unethical IMO.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Jusdy said:


> The whole kid incident was actually the child's fault to be honest with you. I was walking Ivy alone and my niece who was supposed to be in the backyard with the other GSD's ran up behind me. I didn't see her until Ivy bit her.


This makes me rage. If there is *any* possibility of a kid in your neighborhood running up and startling your dog, she needs to have a muzzle on. What happens if you're walking her and you turn a corner and there's a kid getting out of their mom's minivan? Is that their fault too? Jesus.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Kaimeju said:


> This makes me rage. If there is *any* possibility of a kid in your neighborhood running up and startling your dog, she needs to have a muzzle on. What happens if you're walking her and you turn a corner and there's a kid getting out of their mom's minivan? Is that their fault too? Jesus.


I saw that and thought the same thing. That's not a logical thinking process. Having this dog out in public unmuzzled is the height of irresponsibility. The OP has said she is a dog trainer, which makes this thread even more unbelievable.


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

ksotto333 said:


> I saw that and thought the same thing. That's not a logical thinking process. Having this dog out in public unmuzzled is the height of irresponsibility. The OP has said she is a dog trainer, which makes this thread even more unbelievable.


Right? +1

*-*Summer*-*


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I really hope the OP comes back to update.. I'm intrigured to see what happens to Ivy.


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## Jusdy (Mar 14, 2014)

Ivy has been euthanized...I'm sorry to anyone who believed I am a bad dog owner but if only you were there to see what really happened, you would understand. Ever since I made this thread asking for advice, I've been getting horrible inbox messages about how I should be shot to death, put in jail, and that my dogs should turn on me. There is no such thing as a perfect dog owner. Every dog owner has made a mistake. Please delete my account. Thank you.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm so sorry you got messages like that, you didn't deserve that at all. That's a bit shocking to me people would actually do that and I hope that you reported those messages to the staff. I think that you've made the right choice and I know it wasn't easy. I know Ivy thanks you for what you did for her and she can rest easy now.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Jusdy said:


> Ivy has been euthanized...I'm sorry to anyone who believed I am a bad dog owner but if only you were there to see what really happened, you would understand. Ever since I made this thread asking for advice, I've been getting horrible inbox messages about how I should be shot to death, put in jail, and that my dogs should turn on me. There is no such thing as a perfect dog owner. Every dog owner has made a mistake. Please delete my account. Thank you.


I am very sorry that anyone on here would lower themselves to comments like that about such a bad situation. You can block those that sent the messages and still take advantage of the huge amounts of information available in this forum. Also, you can forward those messages to a moderator, I'm sure they would want to take appropriate steps.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Sorry about Ivy......she is at peace now.......
Do you mean private messages on this forum?
That is really quite aweful if that is true.
People who send those kind of messages are not worth thinking about.
You should stick around.......there are some really helpful people with loads of knowledge on here.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Jusdy, I am sorry you had to deal with such nasty messages. I'm sorry you had to let Ivy go...but it was the right thing to do. I hope your aunt is healing well. 
I agree with sparra, please don't let those comments run you off. This place is a wealth of information and we all are passionate about this breed.
RIP Ivy.


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## Angelina03 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm really sorry about everything you've gone through: having a "bite" dog and trying to save it, being berated on here, and finally losing your dog. You are obviously an animal lover. Trying to avoid having to put her down does not make you a bad person. No one is perfect and no one has the right to condemn another for making mistakes. In the end you did the right thing, as hard as it was. Again, I'm sorry about all of it. It must have been very frustrating and heartbreaking for you. 


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

jusdy I am also sorry you had to deal with nasty pms like that...You should have contacted a moderator, while we can't moderate pm's, threatening ones, nasty ones like you received, we could have done something.

For the people who DID PM jusdy nasty pms, You should be ashamed of yourselves, it's easy to sit behind a computer and spew to someone you don't even know.

Jusdy I'm sorry you had to euthanize Ivy, I know your animal lover and did your best with her..


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Out them......make a list so we can all see who they are........see how tough they are when it is in public.....


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

sparra said:


> Out them......make a list so we can all see who they are........see how tough they are when it is in public.....


Yes, please do. If you cannot make a public statement and need to PM nasty demeaning comments, I would like to see those individuals names as well. Ivy was a very beautiful animal. I wish it went the other way. That I cannot change, maybe you can find some peace in your heart at some point soon, without regrets > ? We all have made mistakes with our dogs, my mistake from 1993 still haunts me knowing the animal would be gone anyway. Another regret was re-homing my Alaskan Malamute, "Heavenly Sprit Tonka Tubloc" in 1979, to a good home with a A/M male to play with in the Mammoth Lakes, CA resort area. We all have our personal regrets. 

Please know --- we too feel your pain and the suffering..

SGCSG

There's a lot of good here at GS.com/


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## mtmarabianz (Jan 7, 2010)

From another post of the Op, forum "finding the right puppy", "questions with male vs female":

" For those who disagree; I respect your opinion, but the advice I gave that some of you "laughed" at or called "hooey" comes from 14 years or experience with this breed. I am a certified Police K-9 Handler which means I teach German Shepherds and their partners the skills they need to work in the police force. Every year we get about 30 GSD's to train as Police Patrol Dogs. I work with these dogs 5 days a week preparing them for the International Protection Services Test. This test has 15 levels to it that each dog must past in order to work in the protection field. The 15th level is the Schutzhund Test. Most females don't even make it past the 8th level because they have shown signs of cowardliness and/or fear. Here are some statistics; 90% of female GSDs that are entered into a Police Dog training class *fail* their first month in the program while 95% of male GSDs *pass* the whole thing. Only 5% of GSD Police Dogs are female."

I think we have all been "had" = LOL 
OP is a certified Police K-9 Handler, ok ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

__________________


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

smh


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Interesting. 

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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

So sorry you went through that OP...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

whether anyone has been "had" or not, it's no reason to pm someone nasty comments,


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Cant mods do something about the pm's

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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

maybe someone pmed nasty comments and maybe they didnt
who knows
someone claims to be a police k9 trainer with years of experience and lets their dog bite people 4 x then comes _here_ for assistance
its hard to believe anything else they say
jmho


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I tend to agree with mbd....some of the posts by the OP are a bit far fetched.
But that is the nature of the internet. We either have to believe or are played a fool.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Mods can't do anything about the PM unless the OP notifies them. 

No matter our beliefs on this or any posters qualifications, no one deserves to be bullied and harassed. Period. 

If you believe it to be a sham, notify a mod and leave the discussion. Do not harass another member, knock them on the forum, call into question their legitimacy, bully, be rude, or otherwise act childish. It's not acceptable here or in real life. 


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## mtmarabianz (Jan 7, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> whether anyone has been "had" or not, it's no reason to pm someone nasty comments,


I'm not sure if you are saying my post regarding the OP's prior stmts was a nasty comment?

The reason for my post, was the words of the Op are questionable, even to the extent of if they even own a dog!! Or have received Pm's


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

mt> no wasn't referring to you at all,,just a general thing


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## mtmarabianz (Jan 7, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> mt> no wasn't referring to you at all,,just a general thing


Ok, Thank You for your response


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Just to clarify, this was the rescue right? The supposed working dog?

Not that it makes it any less devastating but just curious. 

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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> Just to clarify, this was the rescue right? The supposed working dog?
> 
> Not that it makes it any less devastating but just curious.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


No, I don't think so. I believe she had Ivy prior to getting the rescue.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Oooooh ok. I thought this was the rescue.

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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I simply do not believe there were PMs saying the OP should be shot, etc. I've been here a long time, and I have had one or two foul PMs, but even with my rather radical or controversial viewpoints, I am not receiving threatening PMs. 

And anyway, people were presenting their opinions on the thread. 

I think that someone feels angry that they were called out about being a certified trainer, and having a dog that bit 4 times, and is being held responsible for not properly managing or doing anything about training a dangerous dog. 

So I'm with MBD, I just can't believe anything said in this thread. 

If Ivy has been euthanized, I think the OP did the right thing if there were 3 other bites requiring stitches. I wouldn't have put the dog down for biting a stranger that came into the house to use the can. I probably would have served the dog steak for that (and apologized profusely to the relative that I must have given permission to drop in anytime, whether I was there or not). 

RIP Ivy. Although I think it was the right thing to do, I also think it is sad.


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

selzer said:


> I simply do not believe there were PMs saying the OP should be shot, etc.
> 
> So I'm with MBD, I just can't believe anything said in this thread.
> 
> If Ivy has been euthanized, I think the OP did the right thing. RIP Ivy. Although I think it was the right thing to do, I also think it is sad.


I agree with Selzer. I am an 'old' dog here, and read huge disagreements between members. However, I find it hard to believe that any member would be a closet bully and threaten the OP in the manner she had alleged.

This was a worthwhile topic to read, even though Ivy's story was tragic because it isn't the first nor will it be the last.


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## vjt555 (Nov 14, 2003)

Just read this thread. Was the OP conducting an investigation via this board? Perhaps seeking people who steal service dogs? A wild guess..


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