# what to do?



## RussUK (Jun 24, 2007)

my fave UK breeder has 3 confirmed pregnancies.

i would like a show/sch puppy - he said he can help me pick out of all 3 litters whats best for me.

all 3 moms have at least sch1 or 2
2 of the dads are sch3 - and the 3rd dad is only 12 months but a stunning looking dog - and his dad is my fave dog ever, Ch. Ice vom steinhauerberg

all the dads have won shows either in the UK or germany.

so would it really matter which litter i went for, or just choose the puppy that has the most potential out of all 3 litters. he has said if i register intrest when the litters are born, he will help me choose one.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Titles are only part of the picture. If you are comfortable with the breeder, tell them what your plans are for the pup, etc. and let them pick the correct pup for you.


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## RussUK (Jun 24, 2007)

thats what i hoped you'd say. thanks


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Humm... I don't think breeding a year old dog is a good idea under any circumstances. Dogs of that age are still very immature mentally and physically, which means the finished product of what the dog will be is still unknown which makes any breeding decisions sketchy at best because the breeder is working with incomplete information about the dog. He's not titled yet, which to me is a big deal because titling tests the dog's character. Is he hip certified?

I would limit my selection to the litters from the adult, titled and presumably fully health screened parents and pass on a litter sired by a dog who's still a baby himself.


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## RussUK (Jun 24, 2007)

yeah, basically the breeder is one of the (if not the) strictest in the UK. i see what you are saying about the titles, but if he mother and father were titled, and his grandparents, and his great granparents, he stand a pretty good chance of turning out a well rounded dog.

link to website - http://www.videxgsd.com
and photo of father to be


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: RussUK but if he mother and father were titled, and his grandparents, and his great granparents, he stand a pretty good chance of turning out a well rounded dog.


One is more likely to get a title-able dog from titled parents than untitled parents, but it's far from guaranteed. Titled dogs produce pups who are lacking in the character needed to title. Happens all the time. 

My concern isn't so much the lack of titles as it is the age. 12 months is a young teenager in dog terms. His adult structure and size cannot be evaluated. His adult health cannot be evaluated. And most importantly, his adult temperament cannot be evaluated. Many personality characteristics do not come out until a dog reaches maturity.. territoriality, defense, suspicion of strangers, aggression, dominance, etc... This is especially true of males even moreso than females as they mature slower. What may be a sweet, loveable, laid back dog now as a juvenile may become a very different dog when he grows up. Or he may not. You don't know because he isn't yet old enough to fully express his genetic temperament.

IMO, breeding is risky enough as it is when breeding dogs who are full adults, where the finished product can be evaluated. To risk breeding a dog who's personality is still severely underdeveloped because of age leaves far too much to guessing.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Chris, I didn't go searching for website. Sorry OP, Chris knows her stuff on the breeding and there are a lot of breeders who wouldn't breed a female at 1 year of age. The gal isn't really done developing and they are going to strain her boy with carrying puppies. This is like a 10 - 13 year old girl having a baby.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I didn't go searching for a website either. Russ mentioned in his first post that one of the sires is only 12mo.









In this case the dog is the male, so less risk than breeding an immature female from the physical standpoint. But the lack of full development due to age holds true regardless of gender of the dog. A 12mo is still a baby.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Not I really feel dumb.. More coffee for me.


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## RussUK (Jun 24, 2007)

thanks chris, you sound like you know your stuff for sure, do you mind if i send you a private message?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Russ,

Sure. PM away!


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Russ

The male is "Hips screened (excellent) - Haemophilia clear", ask David if this is an accidental breeding or planned.

He does post a lot on the Database Board, and very active in the GSD World.


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Deejays_Owner.... if this is an accidental breeding or planned.....


I don't know if it would matter *to me* if it were a planned breeding or an accidental. That doesn't change the age of the sire at the time of breeding.

I think I'd listen to what Chris is saying.


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

But if its a planned breeding, I would run from all 3!!

I'm hoping its an accidental breeding, he is in no way a BYB, and does Title his dogs.
And accidental breeding can happen to the best breeder. 
Then you can go for one of the other litter.
But it would be nice to know, don't you think?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Deejays_OwnerBut if its a planned breeding, I would run from all 3!!
> 
> I'm hoping its an accidental breeding, he is in no way a BYB, and does Title his dogs.
> And accidental breeding can happen to the best breeder.
> ...


LOL.. I agree Brian.


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Deejays_OwnerBut if its a planned breeding, I would run from all 3!!
> 
> I'm hoping its an accidental breeding, he is in no way a BYB, and does Title his dogs.
> And accidental breeding can happen to the best breeder.
> ...


LOL, It’s good you explained your thought because I honestly didn’t think of it that way but you do have a good point. I guess you’d first have to assume the breeder would be honest with you when asking that question. 

My point is this, there are so many breeders out there today that I probably would look elsewhere if I was displeased with how a breeder breeds their dogs. Accident or planned wouldn’t really matter to me.


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## RussUK (Jun 24, 2007)

from the emails i've had he was planned and available for limited stud


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

It's been interesting for me to see how many Breeders don't *Walk the Talk*!!


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Sorry Russ.












> Quote:....... and his dad is my fave dog ever, Ch. Ice vom steinhauerberg..........


On the up side you have a fav. I'm sure with all of the knowledge around here maybe someone could help you find another kennel using these lines. (?) Or maybe lines with similar traits that you appreciate in this particular dog.


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## RussUK (Jun 24, 2007)

i have my eye on another litter now! im such a woman, change my mind daily


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: RussUKi have my eye on another litter now! im such a woman, change my mind daily


Good for you.







Are you going to tell us about it?
BTW: What's wrong with changing your mind? (PS. I am a woman.







)


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## RussUK (Jun 24, 2007)

its the same breeder, but a different litter. his female, but not his male

the sire :
http://www.videxgsd.com/images/GODALIS%20TINO.JPG
the dam :
http://www.videxgsd.com/images/Maike(1).jpg

and this is the simulated pedigree of the litter.

http://www.videxgsd.com/images/tino%20x%20maike%20pedigree.JPG


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