# Aggressively Playful 4 mnth Old



## thegreatescapex0 (May 17, 2009)

My puppy Liam, is a very aggressive 4 month old pup when we try to play. As soon as he starts playing, he's biting and pulling on our limbs and clothing. I've tried EVERYTHING!! I've tried:

-whimpering and ignorance
-redirecting his biting to another toy
-grabbing him by the scruff of his neck
-giving him a stern NO

Whenever I try to correct him, he gets all snappy at me, and when this happens, I try to flip him on his back to show him that I'm the alpha. I personally cannot afford to pay for obedience classes right now, so I need serious advice.

I've read and bought every book imaginable, but cannot find anything to help train him to STOP biting and snapping back with an attitude.

He knows how to sit, come, drop it, and leave it; ONLY when he feels like it or when I have a tidbit at hand. This is a very aggravating situation because I do not want to give away money for a class to teach him what he already knows.

If his biting hurts now, I cannot even BEGIN to imagine the pain when I'll have a 100 lb beast running at me at the peak of play or when he doesn't like what I'm doing.

Please, any advice would be honestly appreciated!


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## thegreatescapex0 (May 17, 2009)

Oh and by the way, when he starts biting at my arms and legs without letting go, his tail is wagging, which means that this is his way of playing. The biggest problem is, is that he doesn't care if I ignore him or do not give him attention.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

You could try putting him in time out that way he can have a few minutes to calm down. We used to do this with Jerzey and, I think, it really did help her realize that play time is OVER when the nipping gets too bad. It's hard to just turn your back on a puppy when they're still jumping up on you to play. A few things from personal experience:

1.) Don't use the puppies crate
2.) Don't put the puppy in time out in a room that you may need him to enter later in life. We used to put Jerzey for time out in the bathroom now she doesn't really like to go in there because she associates it with negative things (time out and bath







)
3.) Make sure the room is totally puppy safe! You'll need to leave the puppy in the room for a few minutes unattended
4.) Obviously don't let the puppy out until it stops whining and calms down a bit

He may also just need more exercise to calm him down while he's at home: walking, running around the yard, fetch, tug (with you ALWAYS winning since you feel like he's still too dominant), training, "find it"... whatever you can do that will help him to expend some energy.

I hope this helps. Good luck! Your pup is totally gorgeous.









ETA: I wouldn't say that your pup is "aggressive" because that isn't really the right term. GSDs are notoriously nippy puppies so this isn't something that is totally out of the ordinary for a GSD and doesn't signal aggressiveness. I know that someone else that has gone through this will have better advice.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Ah, the joys of puppyhood! 

First, I never found that any sort of aggressive corrections (scruff, stern loud "no's" or alpha rolling) help in any way...actually it got the opposite of what I wanted! 

I took the NILF (Nothing in life is Free) approach and during our training time, I'd ball up my fist, put a treat in my fingers and teach Anna "no bite" by only letting her get the treat by licking my hands, followed by praise. That was the best way we taught "no bite" and it worked fairly fast. And while she still likes to mouth us, and only us which is acceptable to DH and me, but if anytime she gets too bitey we just say "no bite" and she stops. Same when she plays with other dogs. 

Good luck!


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

First off a 4 month old puppy is not aggressive. He is a puppy and he is playing the only way that he knows how. A time out might work but so will time, patience and training. He WILL grow out of it. 

How much mental and physical stimulation is he getting on a daily basis?


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## thegreatescapex0 (May 17, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: aubieAh, the joys of puppyhood!
> 
> First, I never found that any sort of aggressive corrections (scruff, stern loud "no's" or alpha rolling) help in any way...actually it got the opposite of what I wanted!
> 
> ...



Aubie, what a great technique! But, when I put my hand in a fist with the treat inside, do you think he will try to bite at it?

I've tried that tactic before, and I have taught him to immediately pay no attention to the treat when I say "leave it". The thing is, this only works when I have a treat. No treat; no hope in having him let go.


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## thegreatescapex0 (May 17, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: AmaruqHow much mental and physical stimulation is he getting on a daily basis?



The thing is, this happens <u>while</u> I try to stimulate the little monster, he goes nuts when I try to play a little with him.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Anna did at first, but as soon as she'd lick at it, she got the treat. A lot of biting and I took the hand away and would try again.

We'd also use redirection during normal play, but this was a great way during training time...as in we'd already done like 5-10 mins of basic sit, lay, shake training then we'd try this when she was a little full of treats but still wanting more, and a little calmed down.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Hi Sandra

Liam is stunning








I think you <u>need</u> to do a training course with him or find someone more dog experienced that can help you: look for some local dog clubs & check them out, go talk to local trainers & see if you can trade (assistance, payment plan etc) for training, go to your local shelters/rescue & ask for trainer referrals etc.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Nobody else has mentioned it so I will. The cute little monster is getting his big boy teeth. Between 4 and 5 months was the WORST time for my Mighty McBitey Mite. Lots of treats, lots of patience and possibly a pair of leather gloves...


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## thegreatescapex0 (May 17, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaNobody else has mentioned it so I will. The cute little monster is getting his big boy teeth. Between 4 and 5 months was the WORST time for my Mighty McBitey Mite. Lots of treats, lots of patience and possibly a pair of leather gloves...



So you're saying that this behavior will dull down in about a month? His teeth will not be as sharp right? They feel like razors at times!


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## thegreatescapex0 (May 17, 2009)

By the way, thank you for all the compliments on my boy! The picture was when he was only 12 weeks, now he's bigger and his ears sadly don't fumble around anymore!! ): aha


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## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

Lainey is six, almost seven months old and gets nippy usually just before bedtime. I really think it's a way of releasing any pent-up energy she hasn't spent somehow during the day. After a few rounds of "no bite", "but I want to"s - I end up finishing it by putting her to bed in her bed downstairs. She settles right down for the night.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

He is gorgeous! Do you have one of those big knotted dog ropes.
My puppies always loved them with tug playing, I tried to replace the rope with them instead of my pant leg.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

PM me for my address. Send the puppy to me.  Then you will not by bothered by this little cutie anymore. 

If you do not have the money to go to a set of obedience classes, you do not have the money to own a GSD, what were you thinking???

Ok, enough of that. 

This is a puppy. How old was he when you brought him home? 
If it was earlier than 8 weeks, he may need help in understanding how hard is too hard to bite. There is a bunch of stuff in this site about teaching bite inhibition. 

When you play with your dog, what kind of games are you playing? Not tug??? Dogs get ramped up, it is better to play little watch me games and throw the squeaky toy for the puppy. Tugging and wrestling with the dog is not really a good idea. 

No more alpha rolls. When the pupy gets nippy, I say, "Eh! Gentle" if he continues to bite, I stand up and walk away. GAME OVER. 

What littermates will do (WE ARE NOT LITTERMATES) will be to Yipe loudly. If that does not work, they will stop playing with the offending puppy. That is how they teach each other how hard is too hard for a play bite. 

This is useful to us. The puppy WANTS to play and get attention. By walking away from the puppy and ignoring it, you are not punishing but you are not ramping the game up either. 

Any type of physical punishment at this point will be just an added twist to your little sharks game. And you are right, down the line those teeth WILL do damage. 

Stop the game. A couple of hours later start a new game with a peice of hot dog or cheese. Hold your hand out flat with the cheese in your palm and say "Gentle." His teeth will most likely not touch your palm, immediately after getting the treat (without pain) say "Good Gentle." Repeat a couple of times. ONLY SAY "GOOD GENTLE" if it was true. If his teeth do connect with your hand, put the treats away and try again later. Once he figures out that the game stops if he grabs, then you can procede to holding the treat in a cupped hand, then holding the treat in your two fingers. This is the dangerous position. But by then, with all the good gentles and knowing the game will end if he chomps down, he will learn to take it nicely. 

Now you have loaded the word gentle. When you play with him, if he gets rough, use it. Again if he does not heed the warning, stop playing with him. 

GSDs WANT to please us. If you pet and play with your dog ONLY when he remains careful, and stand up and ignore the dog when he is rough, he will be careful. 

Good luck with your puppy. Take him to classes once every week and practice a little every day -- two to three 5 minute sessions. In nine years you will have the best dog imagineable. In one year your dog will be pretty **** good. Classes are important for your dog to see other people and strange dogs regularly as well as working on specific things. Without this starting NOW, you will most likely have a whole lot more trouble with him down the line. Now is the time in this young fellers existance where he is most likely to accept strangers and dogs and work through problems before he is out of control and huge and scarey. He cannot wait until the car is paid off or you get your next raise. 

Good luck.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: LiamGSDSo you're saying that this behavior will dull down in about a month? His teeth will not be as sharp right? They feel like razors at times!


I know. His big boy teeth won't be as sharp as those little puppy razor blades. With my pup, I provided him marrow bones (atleast 3" long cow legs - check the grocery store) to chew on. Otto is a tremendous chewer, spent 2 hours this afternoon in the back yard with a bone. Yes they're flattening his teeth (not such a bad thing with a GSD) and there is potential to chip a tooth (rare but it happens). Still, he's not chewing on my house or me or my children. Oh and he likes them.


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LiamGSD
> 
> He knows how to sit, come, drop it, and leave it; ONLY when he feels like it or when I have a tidbit at hand. This is a very aggravating situation because I do not want to give away money for a class to teach him what he already knows.


I think you've gotten some good advice, so I'm just going to comment on the benefits of taking your dog to class. He may know and do the commands at home, but there's a big difference between obeying at home and obeying in the midst of distraction. Not only does the dog get the opportunity to socialize, but will also learn that he has to obey even with all the distractions of other dogs and other people around him.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Originally Posted By: LiamGSD:

"He knows how to sit, come, drop it, and leave it; ONLY when he feels like it or when I have a tidbit at hand. This is a very aggravating situation because I do not want to give away money for a class to teach him what he already knows."

*************************************************

He's four months old for pity's sake. This IS A BABY!

It is 100% NORMAL for him to sit or come or drop it or leave it for a treat. That is generally how we teach what words mean -- show the treat, draw it up over the head, when the bottom hits the floor, say good sit and give the treat. Soon he can follow your hand in this position with or with out a treat. Soon he does this by voice only. Yanking up on the choke chain works, but is a compulsive method of training. Pushing down on the hindquarters can actually do damage. 

Do you want your dog to sit and come and stay and down because he must. Or do you want him to do this because he wants to please you? For years and years compulsive training was the way it was done. It works. It may even be a little quicker and a little crisper depending on the methods used and the handler. 

However, there is another way to train these intelligent and sensitive dogs. It uses their natural desire to please us and often starts with food incentives. It can be done 100% with praise. I think it produces better results, and I have fun and the dog has fun in the process. 

If you throw away everything you heard about being the alpha, and think of yourself as the leader it is a start. If you find a positive trainer, she can help you get there a whole lot quicker than doing it on your own with books. She can see how the two of you react -- what you cannot see. She can offer ideas catered to your own dog, the book does not see your dog. 

When I hear statements like, "When he feels like it", "aggravating", and "what he already knows" I get the impression that you NEED a puppy class.

Good luck with your puppy. I hope you find a positive trainer to help you with him and you and your puppy have a good time. 

Spending good money for good training classes should not be aggravating.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

Here is an entire thread that addresses puppy nipping ect, bite inhibition

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=153716&page=1&fpart=1


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## Iannotti (May 17, 2009)

My pup does this too...between 12-14 weeks she was at her worse..The ways I corrected the biting and growling on the pants is I kept taking her off holding her muzzle gently an saying NO..At first she was snappy and it seemed like a joke to her...Just kept repeating it, day in an out, and its almost all gone now...Sometimes on the morning walk when is is feeling frisky she goes for my ankles..just be persistent and she'll eventually learn...


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

Just chiming in cause I was where you are now a few weeks ago... you got great advice so am not going to duplicate anything... so would just add that Rune too would sort of bark back/back talk me when I would tell him no bite.... I would just say game over and get up and walk away and ignore him for a few seconds. When I felt like I was losing my temper I would as calmly as possible put him in his crate for a short period of time while we both settled down and then we would have a short happy play session like fetch where we werent in a biting mode. It sounds like what ever games you are playing get him too riled up with his teeth, so maybe fetch, or hide and seek... something not interacting with your hands would be more appropriate right now. The good news is THIS WILL PASS and there isnt anything wrong with your puppy... of course we all need to continue to work with them to learn proper manners as they continue to grow. But you dog is still a baby... he needs to have fun, feel secure in your leadership, and learn how to learn (which it sounds like you are doing) and as he matures his drive to work harder to please you will take over. You have a lovely pup.


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## thegreatescapex0 (May 17, 2009)

plenty of thanks for all the advise!


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## thegreatescapex0 (May 17, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: IannottiMy pup does this too...between 12-14 weeks she was at her worse..The ways I corrected the biting and growling on the pants is I kept taking her off holding her muzzle gently an saying NO..At first she was snappy and it seemed like a joke to her...Just kept repeating it, day in an out, and its almost all gone now...Sometimes on the morning walk when is is feeling frisky she goes for my ankles..just be persistent and she'll eventually learn...



So what you are saying is that the snappyness after biting will were off? I constantly do the hold-muzzle-down thing, but like you said, he gets snappy back at me. Will it go away after a while?


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## Iannotti (May 17, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: LiamGSD
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: IannottiMy pup does this too...between 12-14 weeks she was at her worse..The ways I corrected the biting and growling on the pants is I kept taking her off holding her muzzle gently an saying NO..At first she was snappy and it seemed like a joke to her...Just kept repeating it, day in an out, and its almost all gone now...Sometimes on the morning walk when is is feeling frisky she goes for my ankles..just be persistent and she'll eventually learn...
> ...


She would normally snap a a NO, than once i grabbed her muzzle she sometimes would snap a lil but than got the hint...I would grab her muzzle, a stern no, than walked away...it took a while, but she learned...There was a point when she was 11-14 or so weeks old if myself or my wife petted her she would just try and nip our hands and arms, but enough no's and muzzle holding day in and day out, she got the point...


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