# Dog aggressive? For real?



## Melody (Jul 25, 2010)

In December we adopted a 2 year old female GSD named Vada. She came from a shelter in West Virgina having found herself there after her owner died. I spoke to the veterinarian's office where she'd been seen since she was a puppy and it seems that she had always been well cared for. She knows many commands and listens very well. She is absolutely the sweetest most affectionate GSD we've had and is a complete doll in the house - she's respectful, attentive, cuddly, does what we tell her and terrific with out other two, a Plott hound and a very bossy, snippy MinPin/Manchester terrier. We walk 4 or 5 days of the week with a neighbor and her boston terrier and she's terrific with him as well.

Not long after adopting her it became clear that she was dog aggressive. I do a lot of walking and there are many other dogs in the neighborhood. She lunges, barks, growls, etc. After a week or so we went to the dog park maybe 3 or 4 times. She was fine the first few times but the fourth time she started getting nasty and attacked another dog. To my great astonishment, she stopped fighting when I yelled and came right to me. Needless to say, that was the last dog park excursion.

I hired a private trainer who uses the redirect/clicker method and it was only moderately successful despite sincerely and diligently working with her for _at least_ two hours a day. This went on for a couple of weeks and we really didn't make much progress.

Maybe three weeks ago I woke up in a foul mood for some reason - one of those I'm-not-taking-any-**** moods, feeling like I had exhausted all patience with this animal. I got the dogs ready for our daily walk and thought, "You know what? I'm not putting up with this crap today. Go ahead and make my day, dog." I threw down the treats and clicker and just Vada and I headed out. 

She did her usual routine and I implemented some 1970s style parenting - I grabbed her by the scruff of her neck, growled and yelled in as deep a voice as possible and gave her a strong knee to the ribs. Honestly, I just lost it and flipped on her. She was bewildered and contrite and I could see a change in her almost immediately. She has been so much better and as long as I am paying attention and using the deep voice with heel commands she's actually pretty good on our walks now.

However, just an hour ago as I was loading all three into the car, the big lug hound and the MinPin saw an elderly dog across the street and bolted right out of my hands. I still had Vada and got her into the car...but in my hysteria in catching the other two, I neglected to close the front car door. I was running after the hound when I turned and saw her coming across the street, beelining to this elderly, feeble labrador mix. Of course I'm nearly hyperventilating thinking she's going to kill this poor dog. She stopped and sniffed. Then launched into this old dog. I ran and got her off and she attacked again grabbing and shaking this poor dog's flank. It was a nightmare. 

I got her off and as I was dragging her across the street, the harness broke. She started to take off after the old dog again and, incredibly, I screamed her name and she stopped! I got everyone into the house and went back outside to face the music, expecting to see a mangled and bleeding dog. I could hardly believe my eyes when the victim was completely unharmed. I saw Vada bite this dog and rip at her. I saw her bite and snarl and rip this old lady dog to shreds. But there wasn't a thing wrong with her except a bit of slobbery fur and a case of the shakes! What the heck?!

In retrospect, I think she only attacked as I approached and was obviously losing my mind. What I should have done was remain calm and call her to me. Instead, I escalated the emotion of the situation and she flipped out. 

Our city police canine unit is headed by a sergeant who also does civilian dog training, police style. He was a canine handler in a prison and has been with our local police as a canine officer for at least ten years. I spoke to him on the phone a few weeks ago and we're starting with him on sunday. He trains all breeds and says he doesn't use treats or clickers. He seemed to think my situation with Vada was anything but dire and I got the impression that he was doubtful she is truly dog aggressive. 

That event that just transpired was absolutely harrowing but I can't help but think that it wouldn't have happened had I not lost my mind and reacted with authority instead of like an idiot. She is so incredibly responsive and terribly wants to please. I really think I could have an ace obedience candidate on my hands. I've never had a dog that is so sharp and willing please and work so I am really excited about starting lessons with our canine officer (Confident Canines in Fawn Grove PA if anyone cares to look him up).

What do you guys think? Any advice? Thoughts? I'd love to hear it!

thanks!
Melody


----------



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Great! How perfect for you to train with a police officer and she is such a good and intelligent dog too. Lets just move on past this you loosing it event. You know you F'd up, she forgives you, let it go.


----------



## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Maybe Vada forgives you, but how about your neighbor who owns the elderly dog?


----------



## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Melody based on the information you gave, I agree with what your sergeant told you on the phone. She seems to want to pick on dogs who can't defend themselves and then she's not totally out to damage the other dog, just to show she's above in the hierarchy. Insecure dogs do this. But things can easily get out of hand especially if the other dog did try to fight back and defend themselves. The other dog can have a muscle injury or a bruise from the pressure of a bite even if skin was not broken. So it can be a serious problem. 

She's also trying to prove herself to other members of her new pack. Pack dynamics are always complex and can make dogs aggressive who may not be otherwise. Your emotional state is making things a lot worse than they should be as you already know. So it is really up to you as much as the dog.


----------



## Melody (Jul 25, 2010)

WateryTart said:


> Maybe Vada forgives you, but how about your neighbor who owns the elderly dog?


She’s good. The dog is her boyfriend’s and I told her to please have him call me. Once we determined that the dog was ok, the woman seemed to be more concerned with her embarrassment. She screamed like a lunatic and actually apologized for it! ?

I texted her. She just wrote back and said everyone is fine. What a way to meet new neighbors.


----------



## Melody (Jul 25, 2010)

Shepdad said:


> Melody based on the information you gave, I agree with what your sergeant told you on the phone. She seems to want to pick on dogs who can't defend themselves and then she's not totally out to damage the other dog, just to show she's above in the hierarchy. Insecure dogs do this. She's also trying to prove herself to other members of her new pack. Pack dynamics are always complex and can make dogs aggressive who may not be otherwise. Your emotional state is making things a lot worse than they should be as you already know. So it is really up to you as much as the dog.


Yeah, I agree. I don’t believe she’s truly a monster because of her tolerance of Hans, our pinscher. He absolutely abuses her! Takes bones and food from her, snips and snaps at her face...he’s a hellion and she tolerates every bit of his guff. Same with our Boston terrier pal. He launches into her neck when she displeases him and she just stands there.


----------



## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Melody said:


> Yeah, I agree. I don’t believe she’s truly a monster because of her tolerance of Hans, our pinscher. He absolutely abuses her! Takes bones and food from her, snips and snaps at her face...he’s a hellion and she tolerates every bit of his guff. Same with our Boston terrier pal. He launches into her neck when she displeases him and she just stands there.


I would sure be careful about these little ones acting like this. It's good she hasn't snapped yet, but she may decide to teach someone a lesson someday. Good luck, I hope all works out well for you.


----------



## Melody (Jul 25, 2010)

Heres the crew:


----------



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Obviosly the king of the hill is the min pin


----------



## Melody (Jul 25, 2010)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Obviosly the king of the hill is the min pin


Indeed! And that 85 pound Brindled Beast (the Plott) is bottom of the heap.


----------



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

He reminds me of the king in The King and I film.


----------



## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Melody said:


> Yeah, I agree. I don’t believe she’s truly a monster because of her tolerance of Hans, our pinscher. He absolutely abuses her! Takes bones and food from her, snips and snaps at her face...he’s a hellion and she tolerates every bit of his guff. Same with our Boston terrier pal. He launches into her neck when she displeases him and she just stands there.


I would stop Hans the moment he even thought about going for her. Same with the Boston Terrier. No more food and chews for anyone unless they are in their crates and no one pesters another.

I would be willing to bet that her reactivity to outside dogs is related to how she is being treated by her own pack.

Let the K9 trainer know how much she is being bullied within the home. This will give the trainer a better picture of what is going on with her and will better be able to tailor how he goes about helping you.


----------



## Melody (Jul 25, 2010)

UPDATE

We had our second training session with our local canine handler police officer, Mike. I swear to god, one session - ONE SESSION!! - and she’s dramatically improved. Well, it’s most likely me that’s improved with my handling techniques but she is so incredibly responsive to everything we do in class, it’s almost an easy fix. 

Mike actually guffawed when I used the word “aggressive”. When we arrived for our first class he took her for a spin to see what she could do and how she handled and handed her back to me, adding “gimme a break, you’ll have no problem”. He’s kind of a ballbuster. She was excellent with the other dogs, even in close contact. The key is me staying in control. At one point we had 5 GSDs, a boxer and a mastiff all lying down in a row and all us handlers facing their dogs about 15 feet in front of them. I was astounded that that was _my_ dog behaving like a pro! 

She still gets huffy and puffy when we see another dog out but the difference now is that I know how to handle it. Once we complete the first four classes and master the basics we’re going to move on to agility exercises.


----------



## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Good work! Sounds like you found an experienced trainer and are doing well. It's nice to hear an update, especially when it's good news.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

So good to hear from someone who took the advice to heart. I laughed when I read about your bad mood when getting up. usually that is enough for the dogs to sense that there should not be a miss step. 
Treats and clickers work to teach new behavior but to undo attacking other dogs you need something stronger. 
Deja is coming into heat soon and has thrown in the obedience towel. She would give me the middle finger if I showed up with a clicker. I only need to be a little more bitchier than she is right now.
OP, not to offend you but it looks like he GSD and Min Pin could lose some weight?


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Melody said:


> Yeah, I agree. I don’t believe she’s truly a monster because of her tolerance of Hans, our pinscher. He absolutely abuses her! Takes bones and food from her, snips and snaps at her face...he’s a hellion and she tolerates every bit of his guff. Same with our Boston terrier pal. He launches into her neck when she displeases him and she just stands there.


I wouldn't allow this behavior anymore! Accident waiting to happen


----------



## Melody (Jul 25, 2010)

That situation is much reduced in the past few weeks. Vada is spending more time alone and relaxed due to the increased training and the pinscher is much more calm since we had the yard fenced six weeks ago. He spends a lot of time on squirrel patrol and they intact less than before. The combination of Vada’s training and the new fence have sort of changed the whole dynamic of our home.


----------



## Melody (Jul 25, 2010)

wolfy dog said:


> So good to hear from someone who took the advice to heart. I laughed when I read about your bad mood when getting up. usually that is enough for the dogs to sense that there should not be a miss step.
> Treats and clickers work to teach new behavior but to undo attacking other dogs you need something stronger.
> Deja is coming into heat soon and has thrown in the obedience towel. She would give me the middle finger if I showed up with a clicker. I only need to be a little more bitchier than she is right now.
> OP, not to offend you but it looks like he GSD and Min Pin could lose some weight?


 Yeah. No offense taken. GSD was a whale when we adopted her and she was known as Blubberberry for the first few months. She’s dropped ten pounds since we’ve had her.


----------



## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

What a great update and good for you! your description of your trainer and what he does in the class sounds very similar to the class me and my boy took for his dog reactive issues. your reaction to your girl's good behavior and ability to line up brought my own memories of such a proud moment. I'm smiling ear to ear for you.  I hope you took or can take pics of the line up for memory sake. I did and I look back at it often as it is a milestone.

Saved the best for last: That a girl, Vada! You did good!


----------

