# Workingline for family pet?



## evanGSD (May 18, 2020)

Hi everyone,

We are looking for a GSD and wanted to get some general advice. We've done lots of research – talked to several breeders, but it's hard to know who to trust given many might just be telling us we want to hear, and hard to know what will be best for us in the future. We are trying to make the best decision overall and could use some input.

About us: We are a family of four. We have two young kids and are both active in our day-to-day lives. We both have strong personalities and feel confident about our ability to train/manage and raise our GSD. We would like a dog that can play with us, take a hike once or twice a week, protect, but also relax with us and watch a movie/cuddle on the couch. A dog that we won't have to worry about biting us or others. A dog with a mild drive that is well suitable for a family vs training for an IPO.

We have spoken to several breeders – all breeders seem nice, knowledgable, but I wonder if they are telling us what we want to hear.....The reason I mention this is when in conversation with K9 trainers, showline breeders, they all seem shocked when we mention we are considering a workingline breed. I realize these may be political jabs because they don't like the particular breeder we are considering. But should we be concerned by this? Specifically, this happens when we mention breeders who's dogs are titled and train for IPO's 

In short, can a workingline be a good family pet? Who is telling the truth? Based on what you know about us, what/who do you recommend for us? We are just a little confused and are wondering how we can determine who will be the best breeder for us....and how we can determine temperament/suitability over the phone or in person.

Also happily accepting referrals in California (North preferred but can travel as far as SD.

Thank you for your help


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Any well bred German Shepherd is a candidate for a family pet. Key words, well bred. This breed is getting split into all sorts of different things and it makes trying to find a good dog frustrating and confusing. 
They probably hate me by now, lol, but contact T17 working dogs. I know they have a facebook page and periodically can be found here on the forum, @mycobraracr. They are in your area and I know they are breeding balanced dogs that do well with families. I don't know if they are planning a litter. 
Others will chime in here, expect your question to devolve into something that resembles a dysfunctional family thanksgiving dinner. Ignore the bickering about show line vs working line. Everyone on here gets rather passionate sometimes.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Health and temperament testing is going to be your baseline... how is a dogs temperament tested, well basically through some sort of work or sport. Because IPO has multiple components (ppl tend to only focus on bitework) and was created for this breed...it’s the most common titles that you’ll come across. It’s not a perfect system at all but at least you know that the dog is being worked/trained and if nothing else, gives the breeder information about the dog.

Next...
If you were looking for a dog for search and rescue or herding or some other specialized field, you’d get suggestions to find a breeder with dogs that have proven successful in that field. To me, a family pet is no different.... look for a breeder whose dogs (in addition to working/training/competing) also live with them and are integrated into their day to day routine.


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## evanGSD (May 18, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> Others will chime in here, expect your question to devolve into something that resembles a dysfunctional family thanksgiving dinner. Ignore the bickering about show line vs working line. Everyone on here gets rather passionate sometimes.


😂no problem thank you for the context


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

A well bred working line is a great family pet. It's an old argument filled with bias. Find a good breeder.


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## evanGSD (May 18, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> A well bred working line is a great family pet. It's an old argument filled with bias. Find a good breeder.


Thank you!


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I’d recommend you look for an adult dog. If the dog is already matured you’ll know and be able to see exactly what you’re getting. It will be far more likely to get along with your kids. A puppy may start off with lower drive, and then develop into an entirely different beast. Puppies can be very trying on your patience, even more so with kids. My have been and I don’t have to worry about kids. You’ll be teaching the kids how to interact with the dog and also trying to teach the dog you’re expectations. If you’re willing to look all across California like you say, I promise there will be breeder who fits your goals. There will also be plenty of adult dogs who do as well.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

From first principles. Do the characteristics and needs of a working dog fit the characteristics and needs of an average family pet?

My Jupiter is relatively lazy and mild-mannered, yet I still exercise him twice a day, with extra work on weekends; train him every day; and he is still nothing like a Golden retriever in temperament, how he reacts to other dogs, or how other people react to him. He has working line in his recent lineage, but show line too, and we also got the chance to pick out the laziest pup.

I have talked to people that claim they need to take their dog running or biking for miles every day. I met a lady who would go to an empty lot, let the dog out, and drive away to exercise it. I once saw Belgian Malinois brothers that played fetch at the dog park; one was so hyper he literally ran circles around his brother, over and over.

I have no idea if the dogs you're looking at are _that _type of dog, but I think it makes a lot of sense to make sure that you can handle _that _type of dog before you get one. There are a lot of shepherds at the shelter, and that first year can be rough at the best of times.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Working lines make great family pet/companion animals. A good, experienced breeder will pick the right puppy to suit your needs. All GSDs take work - time to train and exercise daily, regardless of what bloodlines they come from. There are working line pups who will gladly hold down the couch for most of the day (both of mine, for example) and there are showlines that bounce off the walls all day long regardless of how much exercise they get.

Find a good breeder, and talk to them about what you are looking for. Also, talk to people who own their dogs if you can to get an idea what they are like to live with. You should have no trouble finding the type of dog you are looking for in a working line gsd.


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## evanGSD (May 18, 2020)

Ken Clean-Air System said:


> Working lines make great family pet/companion animals. A good, experienced breeder will pick the right puppy to suit your needs. All GSDs take work - time to train and exercise daily, regardless of what bloodlines they come from. There are working line pups who will gladly hold down the couch for most of the day (both of mine, for example) and there are showlines that bounce off the walls all day long regardless of how much exercise they get.
> 
> Find a good breeder, and talk to them about what you are looking for. Also, talk to people who own their dogs if you can to get an idea what they are like to live with. You should have no trouble finding the type of dog you are looking for in a working line gsd.


Super helpful thank you!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

evanGSD said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> We are looking for a GSD and wanted to get some general advice. We've done lots of research – talked to several breeders, but it's hard to know who to trust given many might just be telling us we want to hear, and hard to know what will be best for us in the future. We are trying to make the best decision overall and could use some input.
> 
> ...


You didn't mention it, what types of dogs have you owned in the past? Do you have to live differently with a Shepherd then you would with your basic Lab? Probably. If you want dog that will protect, that's a dog that will need different boundaries and rules, things you'll need to pay attention to that aren't difficult, but really depend on you. 

Mine is somewhere between indifferent and pretty friendly in public. IPO3 whose traveled and camped all over the place with us. Went to work with me every day for almost 7 years, but will not accept strangers in my house. For me thats no big deal. For you, that may not be what you want.

He's also pretty pushy and determined, not automatically a respectful dog. Obedience is key with him. Another one we owned came home gentle and respectful with my kids, but again, no strangers. Always indifferent in public, but very selective with the friendly other then family. 

Besides talking, go see the dogs. See how accepting they are with you. There's no exact science to it, but I tend to like a female that's accepting of you, and I don't worry too much about a male being more territorial. Thats not in stone, but just one thing to think about when you get to the point of trying to evaluate the dogs.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

It's a working breed. Different lines will emphasize certain traits more than others. So "working line" may be emphasizing working ability more than say a conformation breeder.

My experience has been that there are super dogs in all lines. It matters most that you find a really good breeder.

In my experience working lines tend to be more pushy, demanding and can have higher needs for exercise and mental stimulation. It makes sense. If you want a dog to work all day they've got to have the energy and the want to do that.

OP something in your first post made me wonder- you said a hike once a week, or something to that effect.

Just be realistic. Lots of GSDs, working line or not but perhaps moreso in the working lines, need to be satisfied. They need to run off the leash and really exercise and they need to do that daily. They need mental stimluation. Sit, down, give paw is not mental stimulation to a shepherd. They need to really think and do stuff. If they don't they will be bored, and they will find some way to entertain themselves, probably at your expense.

I think you will spend the same amount of time and effort either way-- either proactively working with your dog or reactively trying to deal with the disasters of an under utilized working breed.

You said "take a hike once or twice a week, protect, but also relax with us and watch a movie/cuddle on the couch. A dog that we won't have to worry about biting us or others. A dog with a mild drive that is well suitable for a family vs training for an IPO"

This description doesn't definitely sound like a working line dog to me, to be honest. It doesn't absolutely even sound like any German shepherd. I mean, it's a guarding breed. They are super bitey as puppies, and can tend to be territorial and protective as adults. I'm on my 4th now and they've all been quite stable, but they are shepherds and act like it. Most if not all of them would do an aggressive display at a stranger trying to come on our property. Because they are stable, trained and socialized I can tell them to stop and accept that person and they will. But that's work you have to put in, to teach them those things.


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## Nikka Khrystyne (May 14, 2018)

Both our dogs come from title working lines on each side. I can offer two different point of views are both of our dogs are from same litter but have different temperaments.

our male is high drive, especially when it comes to his ball. He’s constantly on go and we have to make him take breaks when we are playing fetch or using the flirt pole.

That being said he’s also pretty great in the house overall. We do have to put his ball out of site when inside but as he’s gotten older and with training he can get into his lazy moods where he sleeps and chills all day, but for the most part he’s pretty active even inside. Sometimes we do have to tell him to chill out and he’s still pretty go go go even if he’s gone to the park for hours. He’s just very alert all the time. Likes to be engaged a lot and think everything is a game and time to play. I honestly don’t mind it too much cause that’s just him. But he does require a lot of physical and mentally stimulation.

He would make a great a working dog as he loves to please and is very high energy and likes to be given tasks. That being said he’s a wonderful house dog as well. As long as he has plenty of exercise.


Our girl Layla, is the complete opposite. Does she enjoy playing fetch at the park, yes but she has a habit of running to get the ball and instead bee lining it to a shady spot under a tree. She’s more interested in chasing her brother. She’s not highly motivated to do anything she doesn’t feel like she has the energy to do or doesn’t want to do. Sometimes we have to chase her to get her to run and exercise. It’s rare she’s running around for then 20 minutes before tapping out. But she does enjoy being outside she just like to take strolls and watch birds and bask in the sun.. Run around for a little bit until she’s had Enough and she just doesn’t need as much physical exercise as Odin.


But even as puppies before we took them home they were like this. She’s always been a. Cuddle bug and loved her napsand odins always been energetic.


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## Nikka Khrystyne (May 14, 2018)

I so agree with them being territorial. We are dealing with that now at 2 seems to be coming in strong.. any tips for stoping barking when dogs are outside? My female can chill on the patio all day and if she barks will stop once we tell her enough. My male will not stop unless we Put him inside 




Thecowboysgirl said:


> It's a working breed. Different lines will emphasize certain traits more than others. So "working line" may be emphasizing working ability more than say a conformation breeder.
> 
> My experience has been that there are super dogs in all lines. It matters most that you find a really good breeder.
> 
> ...


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

Plus 1 for working line gsd as a good pet.
1) be very clear with the breeder a out what you are looking for, and let them choose the right pup for you.

2) be honest with yourself about how much time you are willing to put into training and exercise.

If the working line dog is stable and well trained it will be a joy. If not, well not so much.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> You said "take a hike once or twice a week, protect, but also relax with us and watch a movie/cuddle on the couch. A dog that we won't have to worry about biting us or others. A dog with a mild drive that is well suitable for a family vs training for an IPO"
> 
> This description doesn't definitely sound like a working line dog to me, to be honest.


I was trying to say this, but perhaps was too subtle. Jupiter needs twice-daily exercise, and he's _not_ a working line, and he's fairly _lazy_ and mild-mannered for a GSD.

What the description above sounds like is a mature Golden retriever. I've had two and I'm going to get another and they love nothing more than to snuggle with their people, yet are game for any kind of hike or swim or fetch or whatever. You have to mess up a Golden pretty bad in order for it to want to bite someone, whereas with a shepherd you more have to become fairly proficient and put in a lot of work in order for it to be safe around people. 

Is it worth it? I think so... my GSD is my favorite dog yet. He's very tolerant of my 11-year old and I love him to bits. But it's probably better to make sure the breed fits into your lifestyle, unless you're so dedicated you're willing to fit into _its _lifestyle.


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## K9SHOUSE (Jun 8, 2003)

Any barking GSD will be deterent enough if someone rings the bell or knocks. Just walking one people will give you space. Put a sign near your fence saying a "GSD on premises " or a wrought iron GSD garden ornament by your front door and no one will bother your house.

Keep in mind that there are breeders who breed for search & rescue dogs, therapy dogs, scent detection, and guide dogs. They may have lower protection or suspicion levels. The breeder we are getting a puppy from has a mom with various search and rescue titles and the father is IPO titled. We asked for a pup that my 12 year old son could help train. We are receiving one who has moderate drives, lower dominance to other dogs, a calmer puppy and is very people oriented. These may be characteristics that you would want to seek when speaking with breeders. 

What breeds have you owned in the past? Children's ages? Is your house super busy?


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> A well bred working line is a great family pet. It's an old argument filled with bias. Find a good breeder.


That is harder to do than say. Good breeders also ask a lot for pups because they put a lot into them. We are going through that problem right now. The breedings that look good cost an arm and two legs.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

coolgsd said:


> The breedings that look good cost an arm and two legs.


So do vet bills, behaviorists and lawsuits 😬


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

coolgsd said:


> That is harder to do than say. Good breeders also ask a lot for pups because they put a lot into them. We are going through that problem right now. The breedings that look good cost an arm and two legs.


Price for a working line averages around $2000. It's about what my free puppy cost in the first 3 weeks I had her.
I get that that it's not pocket change for most but I don't know that it's an arm and two legs.


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## Hermitt (May 12, 2020)

I am a first-time GSD owner and I can say that a working line is a good family dog. There are challenges though and you will have to devote some time for them as they are a bundle of energy.

When I was choosing the type of dog I will get, my brother who cared for pitbull until its 14th year, told me to just choose a dog that will fit my character. I am active, playful and fond of doing things with nature. So I got a GSD. His activeness, playfulness and his love for nature fits mine. We both enjoy our times together.


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

My 7 month-old is all working line and so far has been an absolutely wonderful family pet. We have a 9 year old daughter and a 5 year old boy, and while they all need supervision around the pup, everything has been fine and there haven’t been any serious incidents whatsoever.
Our puppy loves to play, a lot, talks back and can be pushy, but I don’t think him being of working line stock makes him any more difficult around the house than any other kind of dog. On the contrary, he’s remarkably well behaved and obedient, and we haven’t had any trouble with him at all so far. Knock on wood! He’s never even tried to chew on any of our leather or wood furniture, and potty and crate training was effortless. Everyone who meets him comments about how well behaved and calm he is.


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## dogtricks (Apr 19, 2020)

coolgsd said:


> That is harder to do than say. Good breeders also ask a lot for pups because they put a lot into them. We are going through that problem right now. The breedings that look good cost an arm and two legs.


Say a poor breeding done by an inexperienced byb costs a $1000 and a great breeding done by a very experienced/reputable breeder cost $2000.

You own the dog for 12-13 years. This is a difference of less than $100/year or a couple of bags of dog food, to get a dog that is well bred and having the confidence in advance that the breeder is competent - and trustworthy - enough to select the correct pup for your needs. This is a no brainer in IMO.


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## Peterszoo (Oct 25, 2019)

Hi there. I'm by no means an expert on GSDs, but we've had 3. Our current female is a long hair GSD. Her disposition is so different from our previous 2 short haired GSDs. She's now only 15 months, but she is super sweet with everyone and any other furry members of our family. I spoke with a breeder about this and was told that the long haired GSD are usually are less intense. This is mostly because the working line GSD are usually short coats so when they are longer coats it generally means the bloodline has been tempered with a lower drive line allowing for the sweetness. If it had known this when our kids were younger, I definitely would have gone for a long hair pup. She's still very protective, but without the intensity and aloofness of our previous two pups.


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## dogtricks (Apr 19, 2020)

Peterszoo said:


> Hi there. I'm by no means an expert on GSDs, but we've had 3. Our current female is a long hair GSD. Her disposition is so different from our previous 2 short haired GSDs. She's now only 15 months, but she is super sweet with everyone and any other furry members of our family. * I spoke with a breeder about this and was told that the long haired GSD are usually are less intense. This is mostly because the working line GSD are usually short coats so when they are longer coats it generally means the bloodline has been tempered with a lower drive line allowing for the sweetness.* If it had known this when our kids were younger, I definitely would have gone for a long hair pup. She's still very protective, but without the intensity and aloofness of our previous two pups.
> View attachment 559740
> 
> 
> View attachment 559740


Sounds like a poor breeder who has no clue what they are talking about.


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## debhib (Sep 24, 2018)

There are many very knowledgeable people on this forum and I am sure you will be well served heeding their advice. I do not pretend to have any great knowledge of the breed. I can only relate my personal experience. I have had four pure bred GSDs as family pets over the years. The first was 5 years old when our only child was born. She was a rescue, 1 yr old when we adopted her. Our second rescue GSD was 9 months old when we adopted him (our son was 7 then). The next was a puppy we purchased from a breeder when he was 4 months old. And our fourth, we adopted from a rescue a year ago. Each has been an only dog living with two cats and a growing boy (who is now 17). The only one of those four GSDs we could not live with was the puppy we purchased, a working line GSD with a very impressive pedigree. He was way too intense, energetic, and had a very high prey drive. We ended up returning him to the breeder. Now, he was a puppy, and may have settled over time, but he so stressed out our household that after we returned him, my husband and I broke out a bottle of wine to celebrate his departure! I've never been so stressed by a dog in my life. To say he was not a good fit for our household would be an understatement. Whether or not this was due to his working line pedigree, I can't say for sure. Since our three rescues were strays, I know nothing of their pedigrees, but feel fairly confident they were show line. The first two, and our current one, were all super sweet and mostly laid back. I think one thing that helped, as a previous commenter mentioned, is that being around a year old when they came into our lives allowed us to see their "grown up" personalities. The rescues were great about matching temperament to our family situation. This has been my experience for what it's worth. Just take your time and do your research and I'm sure you'll find a great dog. Admittedly, we did not do enough research in our puppy search to our deep regret.


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## Peterszoo (Oct 25, 2019)

Perhaps she put it in layman’s terms for me. They have been breeding GSD for 25 years and are AKC club members. Our pup was a rescue GSD so they had no reason to misinform.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

debhib said:


> There are many very knowledgeable people on this forum and I am sure you will be well served heeding their advice. I do not pretend to have any great knowledge of the breed. I can only relate my personal experience. I have had four pure bred GSDs as family pets over the years. The first was 5 years old when our only child was born. She was a rescue, 1 yr old when we adopted her. Our second rescue GSD was 9 months old when we adopted him (our son was 7 then). The next was a puppy we purchased from a breeder when he was 4 months old. And our fourth, we adopted from a rescue a year ago. Each has been an only dog living with two cats and a growing boy (who is now 17). The only one of those four GSDs we could not live with was the puppy we purchased, a working line GSD with a very impressive pedigree. He was way too intense, energetic, and had a very high prey drive. We ended up returning him to the breeder. Now, he was a puppy, and may have settled over time, but he so stressed out our household that after we returned him, my husband and I broke out a bottle of wine to celebrate his departure! I've never been so stressed by a dog in my life. To say he was not a good fit for our household would be an understatement. Whether or not this was due to his working line pedigree, I can't say for sure. Since our three rescues were strays, I know nothing of their pedigrees, but feel fairly confident they were show line. The first two, and our current one, were all super sweet and mostly laid back. I think one thing that helped, as a previous commenter mentioned, is that being around a year old when they came into our lives allowed us to see their "grown up" personalities. The rescues were great about matching temperament to our family situation. This has been my experience for what it's worth. Just take your time and do your research and I'm sure you'll find a great dog. Admittedly, we did not do enough research in our puppy search to our deep regret.


I'm confused. You have had 4 dogs in 21 years that did not overlap? 
This sounds more like you want the looks of a GSD without the personality. And I am not being mean, just honest. 
A well bred GSD is a good fit in any home, but you need to want one. To be fair a good breeder should be able to match a pup, and mistakes do get made. But that sounds really extreme.


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## Canoehead (Mar 26, 2016)

we have a 4 yr old dark sable female (our third sable in 30 years) Who is 100% working line with father a ScH3 and mother a ScH1. She can be very intense, but has a reliable off switch and is very affectionate. She is completely trustworthy off leash and is the best family pet we have ever had. like Most GSDs she is pretty verbal, has strong ball drive and is naturally good with small children. She didn’t become like this without work, but it is actually pretty easy. Aggression, in my opinion, is mainly a result of insecurity. Koko has never been mistreated, knows what is expected of her, and as a result she is very self confident, Which makes her easy to handle. In fairness I think we had a lot to work with, and that is why finding a great breeder is 50% of the battle.


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## debhib (Sep 24, 2018)

Sabi's Mom - Are you calling me a liar? As I said, we returned the puppy, so only had for a few months. First GSD lived to be 12, 2nd was 8 when passed from cancer, 4th is currently 2 yrs. So yes, 4 since 1998 with no overlap. All I can say to your honestly judgmental post is "to each their own." Maybe you're right. All three rescues past and current were and are generally laid back. I want a dog I can play with, pet, walk with, and just generally enjoy. That's not for you - fine. I have and do love all three and would not want any others. I don't want a dog I have to dominate.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

debhib said:


> Sabi's Mom - Are you calling me a liar? As I said, we returned the puppy, so only had for a few months. First GSD lived to be 12, 2nd was 8 when passed from cancer, 4th is currently 2 yrs. So yes, 4 since 1998 with no overlap. All I can say to your honestly judgmental post is "to each their own." Maybe you're right. All three rescues past and current were and are generally laid back. I want a dog I can play with, pet, walk with, and just generally enjoy. That's not for you - fine. I have and do love all three and would not want any others. I don't want a dog I have to dominate.


Settle down. As I said, confused. You clarified. Relax. 
As to the rest, right. To each their own. But again it sounds a lot like you want a German Shepherd that behaves like something else. 
It's great that you love your dogs, but maybe not fair to judge the breed by them.


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## debhib (Sep 24, 2018)

I would also say this one last thing on the subject - there are a lot of GSDs that end up in rescues. These dogs can make wonderful family pets whether they have the GSD "personality" or not. These dogs deserve good homes. What would you propose we do with them - euthanize them all just because they are BYB?


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## von Wolfstal German Sheph (Feb 24, 2020)

evanGSD said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> We are looking for a GSD and wanted to get some general advice. We've done lots of research – talked to several breeders, but it's hard to know who to trust given many might just be telling us we want to hear, and hard to know what will be best for us in the future. We are trying to make the best decision overall and could use some input.
> 
> ...


I’ve been breeding for 23 years and my husband was a K9 instructor in Germany. From your description of what you are looking for in a dog you’ll want to look for the show line German Shepherd. There are a sone good breeders out there who produce wonderful dogs. Shield Kennels is one in CO. von Wa-Bo is in California also


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

dogtricks said:


> Say a poor breeding done by an inexperienced byb costs a $1000 and a great breeding done by a very experienced/reputable breeder cost $2000.
> 
> You own the dog for 12-13 years. This is a difference of less than $100/year or a couple of bags of dog food, to get a dog that is well bred and having the confidence in advance that the breeder is competent - and trustworthy - enough to select the correct pup for your needs. This is a no brainer in IMO.


The good breedings I am seeing are starting out at about $5500 and I won't buy from a byb.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> Price for a working line averages around $2000. It's about what my free puppy cost in the first 3 weeks I had her.
> I get that that it's not pocket change for most but I don't know that it's an arm and two legs.


The good breedings I am looking at are around $5500 and up.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Fodder said:


> So do vet bills, behaviorists and lawsuits 😬


No breeder will guarantee you won't have vet bills - especially after so many years. Behaviorists (dog psychs) seem to treat the owners more than the dogs but if I had one that was in need of that, I would have never accepted the pup to start out with. Lawsuits are a possibility because of the size and breed you own - again no breeder will guarantee what a handler/owner will turn a pup into. What I have looked at are starting around $5500 and so far I have not found a pup that I like the breeding of that is lower cost. I'm sure that everyone responding paid more but at 71 that is a big chunk of money.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Hermitt said:


> I am a first-time GSD owner and I can say that a working line is a good family dog. There are challenges though and you will have to devote some time for them as they are a bundle of energy.
> 
> When I was choosing the type of dog I will get, my brother who cared for pitbull until its 14th year, told me to just choose a dog that will fit my character. I am active, playful and fond of doing things with nature. So I got a GSD. His activeness, playfulness and his love for nature fits mine. We both enjoy our times together.


True story: Rural Minnesota - Male GSD purchased as pup. 3 year old child, mother and dad in 30's. Socialized VERY WELL. Criminal broke into house while only mother and child was home. Police found criminal in hospital with 30 plus stitches and broken arm. Pup's age 8 1/2 months old. Sire SchH III and dam SchH II. Without good socialization and obedience training the pup could have been a monster instead of a protective angel.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

coolgsd said:


> No breeder will guarantee you won't have vet bills - especially after so many years. Behaviorists (dog psychs) seem to treat the owners more than the dogs but if I had one that was in need of that, I would have never accepted the pup to start out with. Lawsuits are a possibility because of the size and breed you own - again no breeder will guarantee what a handler/owner will turn a pup into. What I have looked at are starting around $5500 and so far I have not found a pup that I like the breeding of that is lower cost. I'm sure that everyone responding paid more but at 71 that is a big chunk of money.


I don’t know what you’re looking for in a pedigree but I’m sure you’ll find that almost everyone responding paid _less_ than $5500 for their dogs.

Also, you’re right... I wouldn’t hold a breeder responsible for _any_ of those things, except to do their due diligence on the front end to stack the cards in everyone’s favor in producing healthy dogs of sound temperaments.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

coolgsd said:


> The good breedings I am looking at are around $5500 and up.


That is a ridiculous price.


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## Isabelharperl (Mar 23, 2020)

I agree that what you seem to be looking for would be a nice WGSL GSD they have the milder drives that can make them active family pets. I currently have a DDR/WGWL 5 year old male and although he’s a great companion if I had known then when I was looking at this breed what I know now I would have opted for a WGSL. However,if you are set on a WL gsd be prepared to spend a good price for a good breeder that does all of the required health testing and preferably titles their dogs as well. Tell them what you’re looking for in a pup and let them match you up. Hope this helps and hope you find the pup you’re looking for!


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## Chris4609 (Dec 15, 2019)

evanGSD said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> We are looking for a GSD and wanted to get some general advice. We've done lots of research – talked to several breeders, but it's hard to know who to trust given many might just be telling us we want to hear, and hard to know what will be best for us in the future. We are trying to make the best decision overall and could use some input.
> 
> ...


A good pup is a good pup. Don't get lost in the maze of pedigrees, working line v show line. It's can be a black hole and in your case unnecessary. The GSD in your future has will have a purpose and place as the loyal companion and protector of your family. That pup needs to have a balanced temperament, be well socialized, have quality genetics which a repeatable breeder will document and guarantee. Then have a training plan in place.

A first time GSD owner needs training along with the pup. A good trainer will teach you what's entailed and required to nurture and structure a respectful and trusting relationship with your pup. The reward is a life time of love and loyalty. In my moderately humble opinion there is no fine family pet than a GSD.

Focus on the temperament. No better way than to spend time with the sire and dam. If there is a local GSD club go to an event and meet the pup and owners. Good luck!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

debhib said:


> I would also say this one last thing on the subject - there are a lot of GSDs that end up in rescues. These dogs can make wonderful family pets whether they have the GSD "personality" or not. These dogs deserve good homes. What would you propose we do with them - euthanize them all just because they are BYB?


Whoa, your post is mischaracterizing what Sabis mom was saying. You should take the time to read her past post on dogs she’s rescued and taken in. 😏

Her points are valid. Try not to be so defensive. You’ll get more out of the site this way.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

evanGSD said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> We are looking for a GSD and wanted to get some general advice. We've done lots of research – talked to several breeders, but it's hard to know who to trust given many might just be telling us we want to hear, and hard to know what will be best for us in the future. We are trying to make the best decision overall and could use some input.
> 
> ...


I have two young children (5 & 8) and a teenage working line male. I’ve never had a dog so good with my children. He cuddles with them, plays with them and trains with them. Even my five year old can get him through his most basic tricks which I think is just an amazing confidence builder for her. He came from schutzhund titled parents and trains in schutzhund himself. 

When searching for a breeder, I also had a few non-working line breeders try to scare me off the working line breed. For me, it came down to trusting the breeder and seeing evidence that they could produce the dog I wanted. In addition to health checks and titles, I wanted the breeding dogs to live in home with the family (not kennel dogs), and I wanted some of their puppies to be placed in situations very similar to my household and needs.

My working line can be intense and he does need to work, which is fine for me because he’s a joy to train with and he does have a job in our household. But if you want a dog that just fits into your life and hangs out, I would be cautious about picking a WL. If you’re a person that enjoys doing things with your dog, even just silly tricks or fetch games, then you will get a lot out of a WL dog.

One more thing. GSDs bite. You have to teach them when it’s appropriate.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

$5500?  The average price for working lines is $2000 (which, IMO, is still a crazy price for an 8 week old pup) and show lines will average more around $3000. This will be out of health tested and titled parents. 

You should be able to find what you want in either a working or show line litter. It has more to do with the knowledge of the breeder to understand the lines they are breeding and to pick the right pup than whether it is working line or show line. Look for a breeder that actually lives with their dogs and are out there doing stuff with their dogs and not just breeding and selling puppies with those dogs living in kennels the rest of the time.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Wow, $5500? That’s absolutely crazy, and IMO you’re either looking in all the wrong places or need to edit your criteria. Or stop complaining about the price being “an arm and two legs.” I paid $1800 for my amazingly well bred working line pup. $2000 is closer to what someone should expect to pay for a working line dog, not $5500 like you seem to be wanting people to believe is necessary for a good dog.

OP, a working line can absolutely fit into a family household, and as long as you find a good breeder and are completely honest about your lifestyle and how the dog fits in, you’ll get a great dog. Of course there will be work, like with any pet, but it’s worth it. My working line puppy is a thousand times easier than my show line puppy EVER was.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

RE: Cost, I did a little Googling and here are the breeders who both show up in Arizona searches and publish their prices (only about half or less publish their prices online).

Tre'Good $3500
Abbot's $1800-2800
Vintnar $2500
Kreative $3750
Vom Banach $3000+


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

CactusWren said:


> RE: Cost, I did a little Googling and here are the breeders who both show up in Arizona searches and publish their prices (only about half or less publish their prices online).
> 
> Tre'Good $3500
> Abbot's $1800-2800
> ...


Are these all working line breeders?


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Pytheis said:


> Are these all working line breeders?


IIRC, Abbot's is not, but the rest are?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

....and some of those prices include more than just the dog itself. I think it’s best to allow ppl to do their own research.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Fodder said:


> ....and some of those prices include more than just the dog itself. I think it’s best to allow ppl to do their own research.


I'm not seeing how my post disallows them doing their own research, and all dogs from breeders include "more than just the dog itself." For example, vaccinations, basic socialization and training. If you're implying those prices come with special training or shipping, I saw no evidence of that.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

$5500, Is this a pup already house broken with basic sit, down, stay leash training?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

CactusWren said:


> I'm not seeing how my post disallows them doing their own research, and all dogs from breeders include "more than just the dog itself." For example, vaccinations, basic socialization and training. If you're implying those prices come with special training or shipping, I saw no evidence of that.


Kreative - prices include airfare, travel, crate and microchip. They also have different purchase prices between males and females...both higher and lower than mentioned.
So no, it doesn’t stop anyone from researching further, but imo can present an incomplete picture.


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## debhib (Sep 24, 2018)

IllinoisNative said:


> Whoa, your post is mischaracterizing what Sabis mom was saying. You should take the time to read her past post on dogs she’s rescued and taken in. 😏
> 
> Her points are valid. Try not to be so defensive. You’ll get more out of the site this way.


She was insulting and I'm done with this site. The working line GSD we had was edgy, intense, and way too aggressive I only responded to this post because the OP's description of the dog they want sounds like my three rescues. Our experience with a working line GSD was poor. He was too edgy, intense, and aggressive. He was never going to live safely with our cats. If the OP had said they were looking for a good family pet AND a dog they could participate in Schutzund or search and rescue, or something along those lines, then I'd say go for a working line. Otherwise, I'd not go there. Those dogs need jobs. I don't believe they are content to be just the family pet.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

debhib said:


> She was insulting and I'm done with this site. The working line GSD we had was edgy, intense, and way too aggressive I only responded to this post because the OP's description of the dog they want sounds like my three rescues. Our experience with a working line GSD was poor. He was too edgy, intense, and aggressive. He was never going to live safely with our cats. If the OP had said they were looking for a good family pet AND a dog they could participate in Schutzund or search and rescue, or something along those lines, then I'd say go for a working line. Otherwise, I'd not go there. Those dogs need jobs. I don't believe they are content to be just the family pet.


It's a shame that you condemned an entire line based on one crappy experience. My current rescue is a nightmare, riddled with health and behavioral issues. Fortunately for other rescues both past and future I don't hold her against them. Also fortunately for her I work through our issues, and have for 9+ years.
My WL male was a walk in the park comparatively. Both in effort and cost, and he was a rehab project. At the very least he had better genetics and health.
I have seen fabulous German Shepherds from all lines and all backgrounds.


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## maysisaz (Aug 26, 2018)

evanGSD said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> We are looking for a GSD and wanted to get some general advice. We've done lots of research – talked to several breeders, but it's hard to know who to trust given many might just be telling us we want to hear, and hard to know what will be best for us in the future. We are trying to make the best decision overall and could use some input.
> 
> ...


Hi there,
MY husband ( 73 years old) and myself (77 years old) after extensive research on breeders and the quality of their dogs, got 2 GSD female puppies almost 2 years ago....at 8wks old.....we have never been sorry...we are raising them with love and attention...and patience.....they are the most gentle loving animals we have ever had...they are beautiful, well socialized with people and other dogs....hard to believe, but they get along and play really well with each other and miss each other when apart....but, we are a family of 4 and rarely are apart.... Nellie and Maggie (60lbs each) will jump in our king size bed with us in the morning.....our smiles and love for these dogs have grown beyond our own belief since we picked them Oct. 5th 2018....they are very active...love playing fetch and swimming and being in our company.....we use a combination of raw and dry feeding.....You sound like excellent future parents of the best breed of dog ever...Good Luck to you and yours....our breeder is in Queen Creek, Az. .....


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Hi there,
> MY husband ( 73 years old) and myself (77 years old) after extensive research on breeders and the quality of their dogs, got 2 GSD female puppies almost 2 years ago....at 8wks old.....we have never been sorry...we are raising them with love and attention...and patience.....they are the most gentle loving animals we have ever had...they are beautiful, well socialized with people and other dogs....hard to believe, but they get along and play really well with each other and miss each other when apart....but, we are a family of 4 and rarely are apart.... Nellie and Maggie (60lbs each) will jump in our king size bed with us in the morning.....our smiles and love for these dogs have grown beyond our own belief since we picked them Oct. 5th 2018....they are very active...love playing fetch and swimming and being in our company.....we use a combination of raw and dry feeding.....You sound like excellent future parents of the best breed of dog ever...Good Luck to you and yours....our breeder is in Queen Creek, Az. .....


Are your girls working line or showline?


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

debhib said:


> She was insulting and I'm done with this site. The working line GSD we had was edgy, intense, and way too aggressive I only responded to this post because the OP's description of the dog they want sounds like my three rescues. Our experience with a working line GSD was poor. He was too edgy, intense, and aggressive. He was never going to live safely with our cats. If the OP had said they were looking for a good family pet AND a dog they could participate in Schutzund or search and rescue, or something along those lines, then I'd say go for a working line. Otherwise, I'd not go there. Those dogs need jobs. I don't believe they are content to be just the family pet.


Sounds like you were improperly matched with the dog you were given and didn’t have the experience level to handle that kind of dog. It doesn’t sound to me like you got him/her from a good source as it’s rare that a reputable breeder (or rescue) would place a puppy in a home that couldn’t handle it. It isn’t fair to say all working lines are that way. That exact same dog could easily have gone to a different home and been an absolute dream of a family dog. Different people need different things and can handle different things. My breeder gave me one of the lower drive and easier pups in the litter because he is my first working line, and he’s incredible. I’m sure most of his littermates would have been way too much for me right now, and I would say they aren't a good match for _my_ family. However, in the homes his littermates are in, they’re all great family dogs. Don’t condemn a whole line based on one experience with a dog that didn’t work for you.


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## vonbergman (May 21, 2020)

debhib said:


> I would also say this one last thing on the subject - there are a lot of GSDs that end up in rescues. These dogs can make wonderful family pets whether they have the GSD "personality" or not. These dogs deserve good homes. What would you propose we do with them - euthanize them all just because they are BYB?


I understand what you're saying and I think it's great that you have a big heart and are willing to rescue some of these dogs. However, imo, if people started educating themselves and STOP supporting BYB then perhaps there wouldn't be as many dogs winding up in shelters.

And this isn't necessarily in response to you but for others as well:

Boycott BYB. And just because a so called breeder is registered and has 20 years behind them doesn't = good breeder

There are plenty of 20 year plus breeders, breeding for colour or size who have zero understanding of genetics or the lines they are breeding; I also call these back yard breeders.


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## vonbergman (May 21, 2020)

debhib said:


> She was insulting and I'm done with this site. The working line GSD we had was edgy, intense, and way too aggressive I only responded to this post because the OP's description of the dog they want sounds like my three rescues. Our experience with a working line GSD was poor. He was too edgy, intense, and aggressive. He was never going to live safely with our cats. If the OP had said they were looking for a good family pet AND a dog they could participate in Schutzund or search and rescue, or something along those lines, then I'd say go for a working line. Otherwise, I'd not go there. Those dogs need jobs. I don't believe they are content to be just the family pet.


Guarding a home, truck,etc and being a family companion is one of the most important jobs a German Shepherd has. The traits you describe are exactly what many desire and are in line of what a real German Shepherd should be.

As someone else mentioned, a reputable breeder would have never sold you this dog because its temperament is not in line with your personality or lifestyle.

That is why it is imperative that people seek out a reputable breeder that can match the correct breeding and puppy temperament, to the lifestyle and experience of the potential owner.


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## mrsawiseman (Apr 13, 2020)

Hello!

I have two working line shepherds in my house and with my young children. I don’t know as much about “show line” shepherds, but both my male and female shepherds are great.
Regardless of what dog you choose, they need exercise, discipline and affection in that order. A dog your don’t have to worry about is going to need lots of exercise and attention, and to know that YOU are in charge.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Fodder said:


> Kreative - prices include airfare, travel, crate and microchip. They also have different purchase prices between males and females...both higher and lower than mentioned.
> So no, it doesn’t stop anyone from researching further, but imo can present an incomplete picture.


I stand corrected vis-a-vis Kreative. Looks like you could knock off a few hundred off that price to get a fairer picture.

Certainly anyone buying a dog should conduct their own extensive research about prices in their area and what they're getting, in addition to finding out about the breeder and what dogs they're using. I beg to differ that posting a sampling of available prices in my area is somehow adding noise to this conversation, which is lacking in actual data.


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## vonbergman (May 21, 2020)

CactusWren said:


> I stand corrected vis-a-vis Kreative. Looks like you could knock off a few hundred off that price to get a fairer picture.
> 
> Certainly anyone buying a dog should conduct their own extensive research about prices in their area and what they're getting, in addition to finding out about the breeder and what dogs they're using. I beg to differ that posting a sampling of available prices in my area is somehow adding noise to this conversation, which is lacking in actual data.


Sounds like you're in Arizona area. Those prices do seem high. Heck, you could import a pup right from Jiri Novotny (Jinopo - czech) through Hans (who is in Az) for less than 4K.

I'm not recommending Jiri, just saying you could get well bred pup shipped all the way from Czech for close to the prices you quoted.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I have researched a ton of breeders all over North America. A well bred WL runs on average around $2000-$2500, the prices I see that are over $2800 seem to largely sell hype. I see flashy sites, with lots of catch phrases selling the same bloodlines available elsewhere for double the price and people pay it. 
I look for breeders that know their dogs, not breeders who are selling a product.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

vonbergman said:


> Sounds like you're in Arizona area. Those prices do seem high. Heck, you could import a pup right from Jiri Novotny (Jinopo - czech) through Hans (who is in Az) for less than 4K.
> 
> I'm not recommending Jiri, just saying you could get well bred pup shipped all the way from Czech for close to the prices you quoted.


Could be, I have no dog in this fight. Half the sites don't even list their prices. It may be that the kind of breeder who lists her price charges more (or less). Or those that list their price may be willing to knock off $ for serious inquiries (I once knew a guitar maker who listed his guitars at $7K but only really charged $5K as far as I could tell). So you'd never know until you get into it.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

dogtricks said:


> Sounds like a poor breeder who has no clue what they are talking about.


Agree - long stock coats and temperament have nothing to do with each other but the intensity of drive may.


Sabis mom said:


> That is a ridiculous price.


Most of them are titled dames in Germany, bred and shipped to the states or the pups after they are old enough. The SARS-2 drove the price of shipping and etc up to about a $1000 per pup after they resumed air shipping. They put a lot into them but I agree - for a beautiful companion dog, the price is insane.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> That is a ridiculous price.


Don't know what part of Canada you're in but if it is close to Vancouver you might know of K***W***s in the Seattle area for example - not my choice but an example. I look at waiting lists and there are more waiting on females than males - looking to make some money byb'ing? I don't know but ours are also spayed and there are breeders that have told me "the best are sold to working/show homes". Others sell to the elite wealthy which I have seen up to $10,000 for a top placing Seiger/Seigerin breeding. Again not what I want but those breeders know there is a sucker born every minute.


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## vonbergman (May 21, 2020)

Peterszoo said:


> Hi there. I'm by no means an expert on GSDs, but we've had 3. Our current female is a long hair GSD. Her disposition is so different from our previous 2 short haired GSDs. She's now only 15 months, but she is super sweet with everyone and any other furry members of our family. * I spoke with a breeder about this and was told that the long haired GSD are usually are less intense. This is mostly because the working line GSD are usually short coats so when they are longer coats it generally means the bloodline has been tempered with a lower drive line allowing for the sweetness.* If it had known this when our kids were younger, I definitely would have gone for a long hair pup. She's still very protective, but without the intensity and aloofness of our previous two pups.
> View attachment 559740





dogtricks said:


> Sounds like a poor breeder who has no clue what they are talking about.





Peterszoo said:


> Perhaps she put it in layman’s terms for me. They have been breeding GSD for 25 years and are AKC club members. Our pup was a rescue GSD so they had no reason to misinform.



I think there is some truth to what your breeder told you. I also agree about the laymens terms and that some of the information they gave you may have been lost in the translation. Because the way you worded it, sounds like long hairs are incapable of being strong, civil, dogs which isn't true.

The propensity for higher thresholds and slow to anger is probably where you get "sweetness".

Here is what "Carmspack" said in regards to long hairs in another thread. Most people on this forum know that Carmspack is a very knowledgeable breeder and she understands what she is talking about:

Longcoat vs stock coat


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

coolgsd said:


> Don't know what part of Canada you're in but if it is close to Vancouver you might know of K***W***s in the Seattle area for example - not my choice but an example. I look at waiting lists and there are more waiting on females than males - looking to make some money byb'ing? I don't know but ours are also spayed and there are breeders that have told me "the best are sold to working/show homes". Others sell to the elite wealthy which I have seen up to $10,000 for a top placing Seiger/Seigerin breeding. Again not what I want but those breeders know there is a sucker born every minute.


Ten grand for a trained young dog, or more but again a well bred working line pup is going to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $2000. I have no clue what kennel you mentioned since the forum seems to think you were swearing. I would not buy from someone importing bred females. Yes people do it, yes some may want that, not for me. Those are brokers in my books, not breeders. They know nothing about the dogs themselves and are selling a name, sort of like buying an iPhone. A phone is a phone but folks will always pay more for the flavor of the week.
As for females, the simpler answer may be that there is a well thought of belief that they are better with kids. Or people like me who simply prefer them. I cannot foresee me ever getting a male, I just don't find they connect with me as well.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

females also tend to be “smarter”, (sometimes) cheaper, typically smaller...


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## gooddog! (May 23, 2020)

One thing to consider in your search is what type of work your WL pup was bred for. Top lines in Schutzhund, agility, herding, etc. are going to be higher energy, higher drive, more independent thinking, etc. My pup is from a WL bred specifically for service dog work. He has the typical GSD work ethic and standoffish-ness with strangers but is very focused, has moderate drive levels, and doesn’t need hours of daily high intensity exercise to keep him relaxed. He’s always ready for a romp or a walk but isn’t obsessive about anything.

Temperament is largely learned from the dam, so be sure to meet her to assess her drive/energy levels and find out what she was like as a pup.

My pup was male pick of his litter and was $1500; from Czech imported lines with sire and dam tested for everything you can think of; from a temperament tested litter; raised in-home; underwent Early Neurological Stimulation; and is probably the easiest pup I’ve ever lived with in a lifetime of pet ownership and as a professional trainer.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I've read most this thread. What it really comes down to, is taking your time, talking to breeders and finding one that YOU feel comfortable with. As a couple others have already said, find a breeder who know's and lives with their dogs. Don't just fall for a fancy site and marketing gimmicks. There are some great GSD breeders out there who are still under $2000. Yes the market has skyrocketed the last few years and it boggles my mind. So go talk to breeders, meet dogs and don't get caught up in lines. When you find the right breeder you'll know. TAKE YOUR TIME! This is a 12+ year investment. No need to rush it.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Fodder said:


> So do vet bills, behaviorists and lawsuits 😬


Absolutely. Bad owners can take a good pup and create the same. I just saw these responses from 7 month ago so wanted to note that my comment did include: "Good breeders also ask a lot for pups because they put a lot into them"

Happy New Year


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> Price for a working line averages around $2000. It's about what my free puppy cost in the first 3 weeks I had her.
> I get that that it's not pocket change for most but I don't know that it's an arm and two legs.


I just saw these responses from 7 month ago so wanted to note that my comment did include: "Good breeders also ask a lot for pups because they put a lot into them"

Don't know how old you are but back in the 80's, we had two imports - one SchH III, FH titled, KKL Ia and one SchH I, SG. The more expensive one was $3500. That is a mid-range pup anymore. But if the genetics and breeding is good, they (hopefully) will have good health and temperament and all the other good things we look for. But no guarantees.

I think you understood my point which was : we can spend a little with a BYB and get a good dog or we can get our worst nightmare. We can do the exact same thing with a "breeder". With a "good" breeder, they are looking at genetics, all of the traits that their DNA may carry forward and do their best bring out the best in each puppy. They love the breed and care about the home environment where the pups go to. But the reputation of a good breeder creates a supply and demand to where they can charge more and be able to travel, show, buy top breeding stock, train, title - and it is a long list that goes into a great breeding program. They deserve the extra cost to get a pup but it is still a bit of a gamble. I know I am not say anything you don't already know but maybe someone will read this that will benefit from it.

We are retired and the over $3000 plus the travel costs for the pup we are getting is a lot for us. But she will be our last and if she is the quality we think she will be, she will be worth every penny. But we have had it both ways too. We have had 11 GSD's. Our imports were never sick but 4 US born were and we spent over $4000 in the late 90's on one with acute thrombocytopenia episodes where our vet didn't think she would pull though it. But she did - to14 years old. Again worth every penny. 

Sorry to have written a "book" but I do have a lot of respect for your comments. There are a number of good, knowledgable GSD parents on this forum and hope you all continue to share.
Happy New Year


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