# Advice on these Breeders



## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Hello all. Long time lurker, first time poster here.
In the process of choosing a breeder. Came across these
Schraderhaus
Eichenluft
TrueHaus
Boeselager
WildHaus
Sapphire Shepherds
Any more suggestions? 

I have experience with GSDs. I want a working line pup for companionship/family protection, and possible IPO work.
I want a pup with medium drive who won't go crazy at family functions, my schedule allows me to work part-time so I will definitely have time to train and exercise the dog.
I live in a big city, so I need a pup with good solid nerves who won't react to loud noises with fear. I want to keep it under $2,500. I am willing to ship, but if its not too far from NJ, NY, PA, CT I'm willing to travel.

I hope to hear some feedback from anyone with experience from these breeders or any other good ones and the types of dogs they produce. 

Thank you guys.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

A breeder of high drive dogs can still end up with a medium drive puppy, so I would select the breeders you like the best, contact them and ask if their dogs ever produce medium drive dogs. We got one from a breeder who has both in the litters, and knows enough to pull out the high drive for working homes and the rest for pet homes. A medium drive dog can still be an awesome competitor. But in my experience, the only way a dog won't go crazy at family functions it to train a lot and socialize in those settings. A well trained dog won't have the opportunity to be wild or crazy.

You have experience with GSDs but have you ever had a WL puppy? I'm only asking because I had never had a male WL puppy, which is a whole new world of dogs. We ended up with issues I never even dreamed possible and I've owned a lot of GSDs, both puppies and rescues.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Wildhaus is a good choice. Met several of their dogs and I liked them all.

I've seen a few Vom Diamond dogs that I really liked. Off switch, nice work. They are in Maryland.
Diamond Shepherd Kennels | Breeding, Boarding, Training

Von Wyndmoor is in PA. Jim and Barb are great!
von Wyndmoor Breeders - A World of Difference

Why don't you go to a few clubs and watch the dogs? See what dogs you like and find out who the breeder is. Look on the USCA website for clubs near you.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> A breeder of high drive dogs can still end up with a medium drive puppy, so I would select the breeders you like the best, contact them and ask if their dogs ever produce medium drive dogs. We got one from a breeder who has both in the litters, and knows enough to pull out the high drive for working homes and the rest for pet homes. A medium drive dog can still be an awesome competitor. But in my experience, the only way a dog won't go crazy at family functions it to train a lot and socialize in those settings. A well trained dog won't have the opportunity to be wild or crazy.
> 
> You have experience with GSDs but have you ever had a WL puppy? I'm only asking because I had never had a male WL puppy, which is a whole new world of dogs. We ended up with issues I never even dreamed possible and I've owned a lot of GSDs, both puppies and rescues.


Can you elaborate a bit? A friend of mine had a WL male dog for many years. He did say it was a challenge but the dog seemed fine to me whenever I would come over. If he didnt know you though, watch out.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Jax08 said:


> Wildhaus is a good choice. Met several of their dogs and I liked them all.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you go to a few clubs and watch the dogs? See what dogs you like and find out who the breeder is. Look on the USCA website for clubs near you.


I am reading a lot about how czech lines are too wild for families. I dont believe everything I read, every dog is different but many people have said this. True? False? Kinda?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have a 3/4 czech 1/4 ddr girl, and while all are different, mine wouldn't do well in a laid back environment..She's 8 years old and still very very active, but has a nice 'off' switch once matured..

I would suggest checking out watcher engel in northwest ct..My females breeder just got a puppy from them and really likes what she got and the owners she dealt with.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I have a 3/4 czech 1/4 ddr girl, and while all are different, mine wouldn't do well in a laid back environment..She's 8 years old and still very very active, but has a nice 'off' switch once matured..
> 
> I would suggest checking out watcher engel in northwest ct..My females breeder just got a puppy from them and really likes what she got and the owners she dealt with.


Maybe a 75% ddr 25% czech is a better suit?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have a pretty good balance of lines 

Czech, Belgian, East German, West German


it really depends on the way the pedigree "fits", and what is consistently expressed - I have bred to 2 Czech imports - they were both half Czech, half Belgian kennel lines....one litter was extremely high energy and drive - only 2 pups and I kept one, and the other went to a SAR handler (sire was started in sport, 3 littermates IPO3, but is active certified SAR dog) but dam had half Belgian lines, bringing a very high drive sire line in as well.....super sweet girl with great drives and spirit, great house dog, but a dream dog for a competition home - and the other litter was different, with same mix of lines....3 males working - 1 just titled a couple of weeks ago, 2 other hopefully get to trials sooner than later, a female with an HGH.....bred that female to a Czech dog with maybe 1/8 WGR lines and super super nice pups....a few in pet homes, a couple showing great potential in IPO....and those with novice handlers....

where you live and what resources you have available are as important as the lines of the pup you end up buying



Lee


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Julian G said:


> I am reading a lot about how czech lines are too wild for families. I dont believe everything I read, every dog is different but many people have said this. True? False? Kinda?



Well, if you read posts from some people on here they'll tell you that working lines are to much. LOL A few of those people have never owned a working line.

If you go watch the dogs, you'll find the ones you like. There will be some that will have a hard time settling on the field and as they come off. There will be some that will switch on and off. So go watch, find the ones you like, talk to people about how they are in the house and public. Find your breeder and go from there.


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## ipopro (May 4, 2012)

With whichever breeder you choose, IMO requiring Imprinting the dog from birth DAY 1 by the breeder IMO is Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge. The DNA is Yuuuuuuuuuuge. What you do with the dog after you get it is Yuuuuuuge...

The activity performed by the breeder day 1- when you get your puppy is so critically important I can't emphasize it enough!

I am a customer paying money for a dog, please discuss with me my desires and let's work together to create the best we can. TYVM here is your 2,500.00


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

I wouldnt worry to much about percentages of Czech vs DDR but more about the parents and the pup itself. The breeder will be able to find a dog that matches what you are looking for as long as you can tell them what you need. Find a breeder you like and trust and it should be smooth sailing after that.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Shraderhaus is in Tacoma, Washington. Jean produces nice dogs. The ones I've met from her kennel have been great dogs. 
Wildhaus produces great dogs as well though I don't recall where they're at. 

I have a male out of Weberhaus kennels in Kansas. I wouldn't worry so much about the lines except to help you narrow down a breeder but you're best bet will be talking to the breeders about what you're looking for to decide if they're a fit or not, especially since they're a part of your life once you get a dog from them. 

It's an interview process for both you and the breeder.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

ipopro said:


> With whichever breeder you choose, IMO requiring Imprinting the dog from birth DAY 1 by the breeder IMO is Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge. The DNA is Yuuuuuuuuuuge. What you do with the dog after you get it is Yuuuuuuge...
> 
> The activity performed by the breeder day 1- when you get your puppy is so critically important I can't emphasize it enough!
> 
> I am a customer paying money for a dog, please discuss with me my desires and let's work together to create the best we can. TYVM here is your 2,500.00


Thanks Mr. Trump. Very helpful advice. :grin2:


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## ipopro (May 4, 2012)

Julian G said:


> Thanks Mr. Trump. Very helpful advice. :grin2:



LOL, I hope you consider it and it helps if you decide to do it.

The Yuuuuuge thing came from some car dealer in the area who came down from Jersey and was constantly saying it on the radio ads 5 or 6 years ago.... Is TRUMP saying it now?


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

ipopro said:


> LOL, I hope you consider it and it helps if you decide to do it.
> 
> The Yuuuuuge thing came from some car dealer in the area who came down from Jersey and was constantly saying it on the radio ads 5 or 6 years ago.... Is TRUMP saying it now?


Haha, yes he is. Yea I will definitely take that into account, but do you really think breeders, especially busy ones take the time to condition each pup?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sucessful breeders have their own methods of raising pups - if you are interested in a pup from a breeder, if you talk to people who have pups from a breeder, and you are willing to put down money, then you need to be confident that the breeder will do the best job of raising them that they are able! 

At day 1, no pup is allocated to any buyer or even to the breeder.....while I handle pups daily - multiple times a day usually, awake, sleeping, playing - I want to see the personalities and dynamics of the litter emerge, not manipulate them into something they may not be.....


Dictating to a breeder what you want done with your pup may just not fit the way the breeder does his litters, so be prepared for some rejection when making these kinds of demands.....  

Lee


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Julian G said:


> Can you elaborate a bit? A friend of mine had a WL male dog for many years. He did say it was a challenge but the dog seemed fine to me whenever I would come over. If he didnt know you though, watch out.


My dog is from high drive working lines, but his mother was mellow and so is he. He also has high energy at times, but with exercise and mental stimulation, he wears out quickly and we get a lot of down time.
Yes, my puppy is challenging. He was a landshark and a grabber. We worked all that out. He didn't sleep much at night, he peed all over the house and he was more work than any other puppy I have ever owned. At maturity, he will be one of the best dogs I've ever had, too. He is awesome.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Julian G said:


> I am reading a lot about how czech lines are too wild for families. I dont believe everything I read, every dog is different but many people have said this. True? False? Kinda?


Again, it depends on the dog. My dog comes from Czech and Belgian lines, all imports going back five generations. He is still mellow and calm. He has puppy energy but a good temperament.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Julian G said:


> Haha, yes he is. Yea I will definitely take that into account, but do you really think breeders, especially busy ones take the time to condition each pup?


 I am implementing some of the puppy culture ideals into this litter. I purchased the puppy culture dvd. I really like what it has to offer. I have already loaded the clicker with them at 5 weeks of age. I have a small litter of 5. I would imagine with a larger litter, it would take significantly more time to do all of what is done in the dvd's. But even just doing some of it is going to be beneficial.


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## ipopro (May 4, 2012)

Julian G said:


> Haha, yes he is. Yea I will definitely take that into account, but do you really think breeders, especially busy ones take the time to condition each pup?


I would have to say nope (sad but true)! But any breeder that I gave my money to would be doing it or I would find another breeder, that's just me. Most experienced people can tell right away when they get a chance to interact with the puppy and non-experienced people see the result but aren't really sure what they are seeing. Puppies take a lot of work from whelping to homing. The more activity experienced the more learned they become, and the faster they are able to fully develop as the result IMO. This imprinting experience contributes to that result it continuously compounds both positive and negative depending on the experience.

OK let me shut up now!


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> The more activity experienced the more learned they become, and the faster they are able to fully develop as the result IMO. This imprinting experience contributes to that result it continuously compounds both positive and negative depending on the experience.


I guess the scientific term would be Bio-sensory development developed by the US military, for pups aged 3 days to 18 days. 

I'm sure it would be of benefit to at least speak of such programs with breeders. Seems to be of benefit to the pups.

https://ckcusa.com/resources/respon...super-puppies-with-the-biosensor-routine.aspx


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

MadLab said:


> I guess the scientific term would be Bio-sensory development developed by the US military, for pups aged 3 days to 18 days.
> 
> I'm sure it would be of benefit to at least speak of such programs with breeders. Seems to be of benefit to the pups.
> 
> https://ckcusa.com/resources/respon...super-puppies-with-the-biosensor-routine.aspx


Wow, what an interesting read. If it works, it might be the most important thing I read on these forums. So much of puppy misbehavior is the result of stress and their ability to cope with it. 
thanks


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

MadLab said:


> I guess the scientific term would be Bio-sensory development developed by the US military, for pups aged 3 days to 18 days.
> 
> I'm sure it would be of benefit to at least speak of such programs with breeders. Seems to be of benefit to the pups.
> 
> https://ckcusa.com/resources/respon...super-puppies-with-the-biosensor-routine.aspx


My friend does this with her puppies. She felt it made a difference, last I spoke to her.
https://eik9t.com/vom-kugelblitz-german-shepherds/


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have done it with all of my litters. Does it make a difference? Don't know, but it can't hurt anything. Also tried a type of scent/nose imprinting, but didn't find any benefit to that. I crate train and load the clicker with my pups along with litter box training (which makes house breaking so much easier). More they are exposed to without over doing it the better.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I have dogs from Wildhaus and Zu Treuen Handen. 
I never had a problem transitioning the puppy from the breeder to the new home, both pups housetrained quickly and because they were use to being crated before leaving the breeders they had no problem with crating. Not to mention, I lucked out with the dogs traveling and kenneling in vehicles wonderfully. I would not want a dog that is dirty in a crate, or gets carsick often(though I do know baby pups will outgrow that)

Both breeders also know about minimally vaccinations and feed a raw diet. The puppy raising protocols are important for sure! Wildhaus has it fairly spelled out on their website.
I do believe going with a breeder that has a protocol in their first 8 weeks does help the puppy to be confident, and think.
I don't know that I could just purchase a pup from a big kennel that doesn't really take that time with individual pups, it helps in proper matching with owners and sets the pups up for success. 
I won't go into the lines and how the dogs drives/off switches are....that is something individual to the breeding/pedigrees and management of the dog. One dogs drive level may be too high for someone, but not enough for someone else.

I know many people that have puppies that can't settle in a crate, break teeth trying to get out, eat poop, can't housetrain. I wonder if it is the actual puppy or the way they were raised at the breeders?


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

onyx'girl said:


> I have dogs from Wildhaus and Zu Treuen Handen.
> I never had a problem transitioning the puppy from the breeder to the new home, both pups housetrained quickly and because they were use to being crated before leaving the breeders they had no problem with crating. Not to mention, I lucked out with the dogs traveling and kenneling in vehicles wonderfully. I would not want a dog that is dirty in a crate, or gets carsick often(though I do know baby pups will outgrow that)
> 
> Both breeders also know about minimally vaccinations and feed a raw diet. The puppy raising protocols are important for sure! Wildhaus has it fairly spelled out on their website.
> ...


I guess it's the age old question of Nature vs Nurture.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Much is nature though we can influence nature in SOME ways through how we nurture them.  Nature, though, will always come through. You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

Like KZoppa I have a do, from Malinda of Weberhaus German Shepherds. I brought my boy as a pet that I would possibly try dog sports with. He's a great pet, gentle with kids and the elderly, and very clean in the house. We've also been training in Schutzhund for a little over a year and he's progressing in it. I am pleased with him. When I'm ready for a formal sport prospect, Malinda is at the top of my list. It is very important that you are honest with the breeder about your experience and what you can and can't deal with.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Stay away from Eichenluft.

I'll throw Blackthorn and von der Tetiaroa into the mix for WL breeders.


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