# What makes a breeder ethical?



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Castlemaid said:


> I just deleted a bunch of posts that was sniping back and forth , and taking the tone of this thread off track. Since the original opening post is several pages back, I'm re-posting it here for everyone to refresh their memory. I'm bolded some parts I feel people need to keep in mind.
> And for the sake of continued discussion, I encourage people to start threads about the specifics of ethical breeding.
> Thank you all!


Good point - ethicasl breeding for the betterment and good of our glorious breed - the GSD!

Ethical of course will mean different things to different folks - to me it means only breeding dogs that are likely to contribute to the breed. usually these should be great examples of our breed in all three aspects - titled in something(i.e. ScH/IPO, HGH, UDT, etc.) or working professionaly in a field, proven great conformation and of course with as many health checks as we have available, i.e. DM, HD and ED, etc.

And a true test is *not* the one often heard "He or She is a GREAT dog, listens great to me and loves kids, etc. etc.).

And naturally, financial gain absolutely is NOT a reson for breeding any dog (of course it may well be a factor for some folks!).

JMOO!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

> And naturally, financial gain absolutely is NOT a reson for breeding any dog (of course it may well be a factor for some folks!).


So breeders can't make any money but they are supposed to:

a) health test 
b) put as many title as possible on the dog or work them in a professional field
c) pay the stud fee
d) properly care for the pups
e) but can't make any profit

Anyone titling their dogs or work them in SAR knows how darn expensive it is and I don't blame any breeder trying to get even. Most likely, the reputable breeders won't make any profit at all because the cost n is more than the gain but it makes me mad, very very mad when people come along with their "Holier than thou" attitude when it comes up to breeders "making money off of dogs".


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

To be ethical....
Honesty and an awareness of one's limitations.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

codmaster said:


> to me it means only breeding dogs that are likely to contribute to the breed. usually these should be great examples of our breed in all three aspects - titled in something(i.e. ScH/IPO, HGH, UDT, etc.) or working professionaly in a field, proven great conformation and of course with as many health checks as we have available, i.e. DM, HD and ED, etc.


I like to see dogs with titles but I don't think titles prove one way or another how honest or ethical a breeder is. When a breeder trains and titles their dogs it shows a level of dedication to their breeding program but still, not all dogs with titles have good temperaments. 




codmaster said:


> And naturally, financial gain absolutely is NOT a reson for breeding any dog (of course it may well be a factor for some folks!).


It's not a good reason *to get into breeding* but there's nothing unethical about financial gain if you come by it honestly.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I like to see dogs with titles but I don't think titles prove one way or another how honest or ethical a breeder is. When a breeder trains and titles their dogs it shows a level of dedication to their breeding program but still, not all dogs with titles have good temperaments.
> 
> *Read my post - titles are NOT a guarantee of quality of course, never said that they were, BUT just a hint/indication. Would you say that an owners personal opinion is a better indication of quality? Equal to a title or high scores in competition? Nope!*
> 
> It's not a good reason *to get into breeding* but there's nothing unethical about financial gain if you *come by it honestly*.


 *What in the world do you mean by "come into it honestly"?*


*It might really help if you read my post before you make comments about it* - I said it is not a reason for breeding, NOT that an ethical breeder could not make money or even make his/her living at breeding - absolutely nothing wrong with that! As long as it is not a reason for having a litter or a reason for making a particular breeding!

Do you think that deciding to match the Sieger or the Grand victor with your bitch JUST because you know that that reason will help you sell the pups easily and for a higher price is ethical breeding????????????????? No worry about whether that dog is a good match with your dogs characteristics or not just that the puppies will be popular with buyers! Ethical breeding?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ethics are always open to interpretation.

First, I would want to know why they are breeding. Is it because they love the breed? Or to pump out puppies to ship to pet stores?

Second, what are they breeding? Are the puppies healthy? Good representations of the breed? Even that opens up a can of worms with all the different "lines" of GSD's.

Third, are the animals well cared for. They don't necessarily have to be born and raised in a home. But I would want to see clean kennels and clean animals.

Fourth, what is their policy for rehoming puppies or adult dogs? Do they always take them back to help rehome them if necessary? 

Honesty, integrity, knowledge...


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

To me, the first, most important, A-number one thing is how they treat their dogs. They can have the best bloodlines and produce top champions, but if their dogs are malnourished, matted, living in pens or runs with no human interaction, sitting in their own waste,etc etc etc. . . they are not an ethical breeder. 

Second in my mind is if they have a clear goal for their breeding program and that program involves health and temperament/ability. They need to be able to show what they are doing to make strides towards the goals of health and ability. It may be Schutzhund ability, guide dog ability, show-winning ability, but they need to have twin goals of health and ability and tests to prove it.

Beyond that it's all nit-picking.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

codmaster said:


> It might really help if you read my post before you make comments about it. Do you think that deciding to match the Sieger or the Grand victor with your bitch JUST because you know that that reason will help you sell the pups easily and for a higher price is ethical breeding????????????????? No worry about whether that dog is a good match with your dogs characteristics or not just that the puppies will be popular with buyers! Ethical breeding?


No, I don't think that would be ethical which is why I said originally: "_I like to see dogs with titles but I don't think titles prove one way or another how honest or ethical a breeder is."_ Sounds to me like you've just said the same thing. I swear sometimes you just like to argue. The sky is blue...have at it. 

Ethical to me btw means you know the difference between right and wrong and you make your decisions on the side of "right" regardless of the personal or financial consequences.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Whiteshepherds said:


> No, I don't think that would be ethical which is why I said originally: "_I like to see dogs with titles but I don't think titles prove one way or another how honest or ethical a breeder is."_ Sounds to me like you've just said the same thing. I swear sometimes you just like to argue. *The sky is blue...have at it.* *Heh! Heh!*
> 
> Ethical to me btw means you know the *difference between right and wrong* and you make your decisions on the side of "right" regardless of the personal or financial consequences.


 
Just for the heck of it, have you ever heard of "Situational Ethics"?


Look it up sometime!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I see it as
Breeding with the goal of bettering the breed and choosing heathy, sound breeding stock from known blood lines
Taking great care if their dogs both physically and mentally-- this includes health checks for breeding fitness as well as not breeding a bitch too young or too often
Being honest with buyers regarding what type of dogs they breed and whether they would be a good match for said buyers
Making certain the pups are well cared for and socialized before letting them go to their new homes, at 8 weeks minimum


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Just for the heck of it, have you ever heard of "Situational Ethics"? Look it up sometime!


Nope never had heard of it until now. _Situational Ethics, according to Fletcher's model, states that decision-making should be based upon the circumstances of a particular situation, and not upon fixed Law. The only absolute is Love. Love should be the motive behind every decision._

Interesting. So do you believe their are shades of gray when it comes to what's right and what's wrong? (I think that's what the first part is implying?) If so, how would you tie that into breeding practices? 

Not sure about the second part, it seems a little abstract..and makes me want to sing "All you need is love, da da da dada"


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

But laws are needed for a reason.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Ethical to me, simply means "Knowing & Doing" what is consciously correct.
Which includes "all" aspects of a breeder's life concerning their dogs and practices.

A breeder need not be large, popular or financially secure....to be an ethical breeder.......they simply need to be *honest*, and run their lives (business, hobby) with a good, clean conscience, knowing that they do all that they can (within their means)..... for their dogs and their buyers.
JMO

*Ethics*...is one of those terms, that mean different things to different people.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

:thumbup: Robin


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