# Doggie dementia?



## valb

For about the last month or so, Sierra (coming up on
10 years old) has been doing some strange things that my
husband and I can't quite put our finger on, and I wanted
to maybe get some input on what you guys think.

She's doing things she hasn't done since we've had her, a little
over 4 years now. For example, this morning my husband was
in the kitchen, and she came and sat down on a mat we
have in front of the sink. She's never sat in that spot before,
ever.

Other things: she seems to want to remove herself quite often.
She will ask to go out back even after having had a one hour
walk. What's different about that is that she didn't ask to 
come in after 5 minutes. She stayed easily out there a half
hour/45 mins. Don't worry, secure fence and locked gates, but
I wonder why she wants to be by herself.

Another thing she's been doing is we have this low spot in the
house that I tease my husband should be our mud room, it
is next to the door to our garage, and she heads down in there
and lays down. I almost stepped on her last night, it's very 
dark and I couldn't see her. Hasn't done it before.

Anyone have any ideas? She gets good food and plenty of 
Omega 3's etc. and pain/anti-inflam meds, and doesn't
seem restless or does any panting.


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## msvette2u

Symptoms of Dog Dementia - VetInfo

I don't think that sounds like typical symptoms.
Has she had a health check up lately?


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## valb

Thanks for that link... nope, doesn't sound like it, does it?

Yes to the recent health exam, seems like she gets them 
every couple of months! Her last one was last week, in 
fact.


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## RubyTuesday

Consider having her thyroid checked. Low thyroid is common, especially in older dogs & the fix is so easy, so affordable & makes a real difference in quality of life.

Older dogs, much like older people, do change with the passing of years. I find they're often less outgoing & not as sociable. Many develop an appreciation for private time away from everyone, even those they love most. Two of mine became increasingly intolerant of the heat. Those same two also began to prefer & seek out more comfortable resting spots & softer surfaces. 

It's not really so unusual. Most of us change appreciably b/w 20 & 40 or 40 & 60. Dogs aren't so different.


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## chelle

RubyTuesday said:


> Consider having her thyroid checked. Low thyroid is common, especially in older dogs & the fix is so easy, so affordable & makes a real difference in quality of life.
> 
> Older dogs, much like older people, do change with the passing of years. I find they're often less outgoing & not as sociable. Many develop an appreciation for private time away from everyone, even those they love most. Two of mine became increasingly intolerant of the heat. Those same two also began to prefer & seek out more comfortable resting spots & softer surfaces.
> 
> It's not really so unusual. Most of us change appreciably b/w 20 & 40 or 40 & 60. Dogs aren't so different.


I have to second this. My dog was recently diagnosed with low thyroid. She was displaying dementia symptoms. REALLY scary to me. She's been on medication for just less than two weeks. I'm seeing *some* of those dementia symptoms lessen. I'm praying it is all due to the thyroid condition, but she is getting older and that may play a part as well. But this girl was walking into walls before. Talk about totally freaking the owner out.


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## valb

Thanks gang. Fairly recent blood work, too, but I know
the thyroid could get whacko since then.

Appreciate the help!


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## Freestep

I get the sense your old girl isn't in pain or distress or anything like that. Dementia? Maybe this could be the beginnings of that. Usually what I see in dogs that are showing signs of dementia are barking for no reason, turning in circles, staring into corners, that sort of thing. It could be she is just getting older and is seeking comfort in unorthodox ways... perhaps trying out the kitchen mat, or the low spot near the garage, is simply her way of looking for the most comfortable spot. I am sure you have a very comfortable bed for her, but dogs often have their own ideas. For example, my 10 year old girl has what we call "The Princess and the Pea" bed. It is an old futon mattress folded over, with another dog bed on top of it.  Yeah, I know. But I often find her lying stretched out flat on the hardwood floor!

I wouldn't worry about her too much. As long as she is healthy (I assume she's had a fairly recent blood panel?), happy, and showing as much interest in playing and eating as she always has, I don't think you should be alarmed. 

How much does she weigh? Is she thin, or chunky? Is her hair longer and thick, or is it a shorter stock coat? Sonoma has a fairly mild climate, so I wouldn't be too surprised if she wants to be outdoors. Especially if your house is kept warm.


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## RubyTuesday

Some yrs back, Simba, my daughter's Toy Poodle, started wandering aimlessly & often landed in corners which he'd simply stare into without moving. Worse, he'd become lethargic & depressed. I asked the vet about senility. The meds available weren't terribly successful, though I'd have tried them if necessary. Fortunately for Simba, he was hypothyroid & treatment made a big difference in his quality of life. The vet was amazed at how thrilled I was at the diagnosis, but it indicated a problem with a solution, whereas I'd been worried he suffered from problems without any good solutions.

I suspect his condition was exacerbated by impaired vision, possible decrease in scenting abilities & his tiny size which made navigating a 2 story house considerably more challenging. Old age changes are like that. The physical can affect the mental/emotional which can affect the physical & on & on. Someone once said old age isn't for sissies...

My Sam is over 13 now & is physically showing her yrs. I give her high doses of glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM, omega-3 fish oil, DHA 500, vitamin e & spirulina. They seem to help & they won't hurt. More recently I've added 100 mg of ubiquinol & 400 mg SAM-e to possibly give her a 'mental boost'. She shows no signs of dementia but she does appear mildly depressed at times. I discussed all supplements with a vet who thought they were a good idea & agreed that they won't hurt her. 

I remind myself that while I will do all that I can for her, she's the canine equivalent of a human nonagenarian & I can't expect her to be as spry as she was at 10 or as engaged as she was at 9. By all criteria she's an elderly bitch. We're both just very lucky that her decline has been both gradual & graceful.


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## chelle

RubyTuesday said:


> Some yrs back, Simba, my daughter's Toy Poodle, started wandering aimlessly & often landed in corners which he'd simply stare into without moving. Worse, he'd become lethargic & depressed. I asked the vet about senility. The meds available weren't terribly successful, though I'd have tried them if necessary. *Fortunately for Simba, he was hypothyroid & treatment made a big difference in his quality of life.* The vet was amazed at how thrilled I was at the diagnosis, but it indicated a problem with a solution, whereas I'd been worried he suffered from problems without any good solutions.


I just want to make sure I understand you -- the senility issues you were worried about were *actually* due to the hypothyroid condition? How long did it take, once on hypothryoid meds, to notice a big difference in the "senile" behavior?


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## RubyTuesday

In Simba's case, yes, they were. He was mentally confused, disoriented & depressed. Due to old age, he also had physical limitations, which probably made those worse. Due to his breed he had size constraints which made navigating the environment tougher. As did the presence of dogs much larger than him. 

It's been a mess of yrs but I think we saw a real difference within a couple weeks. It took several months to get the dosage right which was increased several times throughout his remaining life. The initial increases were welcome. He initially started with 1/8 of a tiny pill which was almost impossible to do well. 

My own thyroid condition is considerably more recent but I think I felt the improvement within a few weeks. Prior to the diagnosis I was terrified that I might be looking at early onset Alzheimers. I couldn't concentrate, couldn't focus, thoughts & calculations slipped away like water through a sieve, I was lethargic, depressed & scatter brained. I didn't think thyroid b/c I'd been tested earlier as normal. (I still wonder if I was a 'low normal' on the initial test & was beginning to be affected but not diagnosed)


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## RubyTuesday

Chelle, at the end of his life, when he was in organ failure, Simba greeted my daughter at the door on the last day of his life. IF his thyroid condition hadn't been corrected that wouldn't have happened. That he could do that, is something she holds dear, & will have forever.


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## chelle

RubyTuesday said:


> In Simba's case, yes, they were. He was mentally confused, disoriented & depressed. Due to old age, he also had physical limitations, which probably made those worse. Due to his breed he had size constraints which made navigating the environment tougher. As did the presence of dogs much larger than him.
> 
> It's been a mess of yrs but I think we saw a real difference within a couple weeks. It took several months to get the dosage right which was increased several times throughout his remaining life. The initial increases were welcome. He initially started with 1/8 of a tiny pill which was almost impossible to do well.
> 
> My own thyroid condition is considerably more recent but I think I felt the improvement within a few weeks. Prior to the diagnosis I was terrified that I might be looking at early onset Alzheimers. I couldn't concentrate, couldn't focus, thoughts & calculations slipped away like water through a sieve, I was lethargic, depressed & scatter brained. I didn't think thyroid b/c I'd been tested earlier as normal. (I still wonder if I was a 'low normal' on the initial test & was beginning to be affected but not diagnosed)


Ok thank you so much. We're almost two weeks in to my eldest dog's hypothyroid meds and I'm noticing changes which make me *very* happy. I've been so scared for her. She's not dropping any weight yet, though.  But what scared me more than anything was she was walking into the wall on occasion? Seeming disoriented. And definitely lethargic and tired. Having a hard time getting thru a short walk. I was so relieved to get the low thyroid diagnosis. Now I'm very eagerly looking forward to her being more healthy and happy.


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## RubyTuesday

Honestly, it can be wonderful to hear a low thyroid diagnosis. A co-worker was seriously bummed to hear it & refuses to take the supplement which is just crazeee to me. It's such an easy, safe & inexpensive 'fix'. Even in hospice, my mother continued to take 'em. When she was asked if she wanted to quit taking them she looked at the nurse like she was nuts & said, no, she'd take them to the end, that there's no downside to taking 'em. I'd have to agree. (They weren't prolonging her life. They were simply improving it some).

Look into SAM-e & if it seems worthwhile talk about it with your vet. Other than the thyroid supplement, it's the one thing I've found that makes a substantive difference in how I feel. For that reason, I put Sam on it after discussing it with the vet. She doesn't seem unhappy, but she does seem like she could be happier, if that makes any sense.


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## Fiddler

If dogs react to being hypothyroid as people do I can totally understand the walking into walls. I am hypothyroid and have actually walked into walls. That was why I finally went to the doctor. I would get up from 
my desk and list to the right and bam right into the wall. I would not 
feel dizzy just unbalanced. Another symptom is what we call fog 
brain. Just a disconnected feeling where you just zone out. Perhaps that's why she wants to be alone, just in her own little world. 

Best of Luck,


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