# Article - Getting Rid of the Growl



## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Getting Rid of the Growl | Paws Abilities


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Twyla said:


> Getting Rid of the Growl | Paws Abilities


 
One thing that I have never been able to understand about peoples thinking about correcting a growl, like the author of the article you referenced, is this?

How are they so sure that the dog who is corrected for growling knows that the correction is intended only for the growl and not for any other bad behavior that is going on at the same time, i.e. lunging or snapping or the like?

And why would all of these folks assume that a correction for the growling is so very effective that the dog learns almost immediately (or so it seems like people are implying) that he/she is not to growl. (But just go immediately to biting!)

I wish that my dog would learn new behavior for a command that quickly and completely!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Almost forgot, would the author think that it might be ok to correct the dog if they actually went beyond the growl to a bite or snap or lunge?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Thanks for posting that link. I like that article. I also like my dogs to growl, so that just reaffirms it for me.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Other than at another dog a little, I can't remember the last time my own dog actually growled (other than when we are wrestling or tugging).

I still think that i would react to him growling - either a small correction but probably more likely a redirection or just showing him in more detail what he might be growling at (used to do this with barking when he was a puppy - go over and let him explore it.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I will always correct a dog for growling especially if it was at me. Not correcting him is just letting him know that he really is in charge and you just reinforced it. A bite is the next step for you when you overstep your bounds with your dog after letting him get away with growling. Growling at others is almost always inappropriate and should be corrected too.

This is strictly a pet driven idea. Not correcting for growling is something a lot of people hold to because they don't like the idea of correcting their dog at all, which is how they got in the position of being growled at in the first place.

Any dog that would do this at me, would be in for an attitude adjustment session and would never do it again.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Elaine said:


> I will always correct a dog for growling especially if it was at me. Not correcting him is just letting him know that he really is in charge and you just reinforced it. A bite is the next step for you when you overstep your bounds with your dog after letting him get away with growling. Growling at others is almost always inappropriate and should be corrected too.
> 
> This is strictly a pet driven idea. Not correcting for growling is something a lot of people hold to because they don't like the idea of correcting their dog at all, which is how they got in the position of being growled at in the first place.
> 
> Any dog that would do this at me, would be in for an attitude adjustment session and would never do it again.


*What she said!*

 I hadn't even thought of my dog growling at me! Absolutely no way can an owner let the dog get away with this - THAT will certainly lead to a bite if not fixed.

Besides has anyone who favors NOT correcting a growl thought of this - If the dog growls at something he/she doesn't like and the thing leaves or otherwise gives in to the dog - What in the world do you think that you have just taught that dog????????

*If I am on the couch and my owner doesn't want me to be here and tries to get me off and I growl at him/her and they let me stay here - All I have to do is growl and I can do what I want!!!!*


Great idea, heh?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

codmaster said:


> but probably more likely a redirection or just showing him in more detail what he might be growling at (used to do this with barking when he was a puppy - go over and let him explore it.


I would do that for sure. 

I have one of those dogs - I did not know it when I got her - who has no growl/sound warning signs because she was corrected for them. I knew she was fear aggressive, I knew how far she could go with it, I knew I had to be in charge of her so she could relax (and she's a soft girl - so my in charge with her was much different than with my older FA dog). 

Anyway, I found out her "go to" was showing her teeth at people. Oh, that was nice to learn! So quiet, and if I wasn't standing there staring at her, she could do it...hmmm...why are so many people walking away from us...ha! She rarely did it, but it was a shock when I first saw it. I also realized that her warning was kind of more moving up the scale beyond a growl. Not the direction I wanted her to go in. 

She's a wonderful dog, still shy, but very much a dog who will listen to and check in with me. She may not be what a GSD is supposed to be, but all of the other good GSD things help to make her a true treasure. ETA - And she hasn't smiled  at people in years! Nothing even close - much more confident and happy. 

I don't think I've ever had a dog of my own, or foster growl at me. I have some pretty freaky deaky dogs so going to have to review the brain tapes for that one!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I think my first GSD must have had the growl corrected out of him, because he always air snapped to make his point. I would have rather been notified by a growl, but since he only air snapped and didn't make any contact, I was just very careful to manage him in certain situations.

This sounds stupid, but it never even occured to me that my dog would growl at me! I think if he did, I'd have to look at the whole big picture and try to understand why the growl happened in the first place. It's just such a bizarre idea - I can't even imagine it. But then again, I'm pretty strict. I'd think that the dogs that are growling at their owners (barring a medical condition) are really taking advantage of the situation and are pushing the boundaries as far as they can go. When I said I like my dogs to growl, I sure as heck didn't mean growl at me, lol!


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I have one of those dogs - I did not know it when I got her - who has no growl/sound warning signs because she was corrected for them. I knew she was fear aggressive, I knew how far she could go with it, I knew I had to be in charge of her so she could relax (and she's a soft girl - so my in charge with her was much different than with my older FA dog).
> 
> Anyway, I found out her "go to" was showing her teeth at people. Oh, that was nice to learn! So quiet, and if I wasn't standing there staring at her, she could do it...hmmm...why are so many people walking away from us...ha! She rarely did it, but it was a shock when I first saw it. I also realized that her warning was kind of more moving up the scale beyond a growl. Not the direction I wanted her to go in.


Had one too (a foster). He is very dog aggressive (also based in fear) and his only warning sign was to stiffen his body which is extremely difficult to notice when standing next to him! He bit a poodle in the butt because she got in his 2 foot bubble. No warnings. No growl, no teeth, no nothing... all of them had been corrected out of him. 

My former training partner had a mastiff/dane mix who she successfully trained all the warning signs out of using a prong collar. Scary thought when a dog that big will bite people and you taught it not to tell you ahead of time. Took her 2 years to overcome that mistake.

I have met plenty others that were taught not to show warnings signs or pretty darn close to it. Instead of correcting the behavior (growl), why not focus on correcting (as in fixing) the feeling (fear)? Dunno, makes perfect sense to me. Change the reason for the growl and keep the warning signs intact.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

It depends on why the dog is growling if I correct or not. Onyx is my growler, she may growl when I prepare their food. I correct that one. She growls when Kacie is outside the door and she is inside, I correct that one too. 
Other growls are a way of communicating and I listen to it. I won't 'correct' a growl during random situations but the reason for it will be addressed, like Jamie suggested and the article explained.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Why not just train/raise a dog to KNOW that it is simply not allowed to growl at an owner?

I have had only one dog out of the 7/8 GSD's that we have over the last 40+ years ever growl at me. And that was a 9+mo male who was a son of a great german import dog. He had a real bone and was laying on the floor next to me chewing - i reached down to take it and he growled and showed a bunch of teeth as i went to take it away from him. Without thinking about it i grabbed him by the scruff of the neck, yelled "NO!" and gave his neck a good shake. He gave up the bone and never ever again showed that behavior!

Guess he was trained not to growl at me anymore (BTW he also never bit me! with or w/o a warning). 

Wonder what I should have done in that instance? - backed off? offered him a treat?

BTW, this dog was one of the hardest dogs that I and the local ScH club trainer had ever seen - he was a star in protection at 9 mo.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I've never been in that situation because if I want the bone, I tell them I'm taking it. So when I say "Drop it" and "Leave it" they know whatever they have isn't theirs anymore. It doesn't matter what it is, it's mine and they don't question it. I guess if I just grabbed it I might have had an issue, but I'd never do that so I'll never know. It's so much easier to just tell them what's going on, there's no surprises that way.

I also think that for those of us who are older, we were raised with the idea of training by compulsion methods. So what you did is what anyone would have done. I have done similar things to other people's dogs, dogs that don't respect me. But I would never jump into a resource guarding thread and recommend this, LOL!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Blanketback said:


> I've never been in that situation because if I want the bone, I tell them I'm taking it. So when I say "Drop it" and "Leave it" they know whatever they have isn't theirs anymore. It doesn't matter what it is, it's mine and they don't question it. I guess if I just grabbed it I might have had an issue, but I'd never do that so I'll never know. It's so much easier to just tell them what's going on, there's no surprises that way.
> 
> I also think that for those of us who are older, we were raised with the idea of training by compulsion methods. So what you did is what anyone would have done. I have done similar things to other people's dogs, dogs that don't respect me. But *I would never jump into a resource guarding thread and recommend this, LOL*!


Me either, esp. with someone else's dog! And even more esp. with a very tough dog as this one proved to be!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I get the occasional foster in that is used to intimidating people to get what they want. I'm all over the growl before the dogs can even take a breath. I never ever let them get away with this. Attitude adjustments are a wonderful thing for dogs like this and it actually makes them happier because they are no longer in charge and can relax.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I didn't read the entire article (sowy...lazy) but the gist of it is that a growl is a warning sign that shouldn't be removed from a dogs character, right?

I distinctly remember in one of my threads someone asking me to not scold growling when Zeeva and Smokey began resource guarding their water bowl. It sank in deep with me and I agree...A warning is better than a quiet curl of the lips or a show of teeth that can go easily unnoticed and turn into a problem situation. Recently, I scolded Zeeva for growling while playing with her tug. But I'm realizing that that's wrong as well...JMO


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Zeeva said:


> I didn't read the entire article (sowy...lazy) but the gist of it is that a growl is a warning sign that shouldn't be removed from a dogs character, right?
> 
> I distinctly remember in one of my threads someone asking me to not scold growling when Zeeva and Smokey began resource guarding their water bowl. It sank in deep with me and I agree...A warning is better than a quiet curl of the lips or a show of teeth that can go easily unnoticed and turn into a problem situation. Recently, I scolded Zeeva for growling while playing with her tug. But I'm realizing that that's wrong as well...JMO


 There is a big difference between growling while playing and the threatening growl that some dogs will use to get away with - i.e. growl if you reach to take something away from them or tell them to"get off the sofs" or some such thing. One is funny and cute and harmless and the latter is actually teaching the dog who is in charge and can do what they want to do. Third type is growling at a stranger when they walk up to you - also not allowed in my book. 

And IT will get corrected/displaced but absolutely NOT ALLOWED! And I guaranteed to will not cUSE A BITE NEXT TIME.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Yes, the article isn't about play growling. But I would never correct my dog for growling at a stranger because I would want to know if the person warrants a growl or not. But that's why I socialize my dogs to the extent that I do, so that the simple act of meeting a stranger doesn't provoke that sort of response. But that's just how I feel about it, and also one of the reasons I have GSDs.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Zeeva said:


> I didn't read the entire article (sowy...lazy) but the gist of it is that a growl is a warning sign that shouldn't be removed from a dogs character, right?
> 
> I distinctly remember in one of my threads someone asking me to not scold growling when Zeeva and Smokey began resource guarding their water bowl. It sank in deep with me and I agree...A warning is better than a quiet curl of the lips or a show of teeth that can go easily unnoticed and turn into a problem situation. Recently, I scolded Zeeva for growling while playing with her tug. But I'm realizing that that's wrong as well...JMO


With how long and how many dogs I've dealt with, I have never experienced a dog with "the growl trained out of them." What rubbish. There are dogs that just aren't vocal growlers and only do the physical stiffening and eyeball look. The growl wasn't trained out of them, that's how they do it.

Nothing wrong with your dog growling while playing unless she crosses the line into meaning it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think I read these threads to remind myself how much I love my dogs. 

Frodo would growl at me. He was my first GSD, and he would grump and he would growl. He was in regular pain. He was the dog I used harsh commands with, and all the alpha - baloney type stuff. 

Arwen was a soft dog and she taught me a different approach. I HAD to learn a different approach or it would have crushed us both. Since then, I have never once had one of my dogs growl at me. 

I have had dogs growl, and I think it is natural to correct it, because, for one thing, when a puppy growls at someone you know they look at you like, "Are you just going to let the dog get away with that?" or "Is it going to bite me?" Some action is warranted. So I say, "Cut that out, it's only Bobby." or "Cut that out, it's a person, they are allowed to walk on the sidewalk." Usually this just happens for a few weeks when they are puppies. 

The question is, are they learning not to growl or are they learning that everybody in the universe is not out to eat them? I think a little of both. 

I think because my tone is not NO!!! BAD DOG! they get it that their reaction was beyond what the situation called for. 

I think there are people who beat the growl out of a dog. And those dogs do become dangerous because they skip all the warnings and if they are pressed they will have to bite. 

If my dog was in serious distress, like bone sticking out of skin afraid that I might hurt her, well, I think that I would not fault the critter for growling a warning. So far my girls have been awesome even when they are in serious pain.


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## Bubbles (Aug 31, 2012)

Lol. I like this article before I'd ignore bubbles when she growls and walk away. She normally growls when I stop playing with her. Hopefully when she goes to puppy classes a trainer can help me with this. 

I'm glad to know that walking away was a bad idea. She bites after she growls and I'm not going to keep playing either. Well, I got some Google searching and researching for a solution in the meantime.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Elaine said:


> With how long and how many dogs I've dealt with, I have never experienced a dog with "the growl trained out of them." What rubbish. There are dogs that just aren't vocal growlers and only do the physical stiffening and eyeball look. The growl wasn't trained out of them, that's how they do it.
> 
> *Nothing wrong with your dog growling while playing unless she crosses the line into meaning it*.


How do you know the difference?

You don't think dogs can be trained out of growling? Isn't it similar to training a dog out of barking? I remember seeing a cute video of by evybear15 and her pup snorting rather than barking because the pup was told not to bark. If a dog is trained out of barking, won't they pick up some other warning, like curling a lip or showing teeth? Or instead of growling, without any warning just snap?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Zeeva said:


> How do you know the difference?
> 
> You don't think dogs can be trained out of growling? Isn't it similar to training a dog out of barking? I remember seeing a cute video of by evybear15 and her pup snorting rather than barking because the pup was told not to bark. If a dog is trained out of barking, won't they pick up some other warning, like curling a lip or showing teeth? Or instead of growling, without any warning just snap?


You have to watch for body language and tone change when trying to decide if your dog is play growling or if she means it.

I absolutely do not believe you can train the growl out of a dog and the only barking most people can train out of a dog is the excessive variety. The dog is still going to bark if it needs to. 

This idea that a dog will just bite is nonsense. This probably came around from pet people that completely ignored all the many many signs the dog was giving them beforehand -both the verbal and physical growl - and then was shocked when the dog did bite.


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