# runt or dwarf??



## LittleLady

i acquired a female gsd at 7 weeks of age, weighing 2 kilos. she was given to me as a "runt" with a severe overbite which was to otherwise be put down by the breeder if a home could not be found immediately. they said she would grow to the size of a kelpie & not to the typical full gsd size.(fine by me) she was also to be desexed asap & not to be bred with (also fine by me). she was 1 of 2 pups born, the first litter of that female. the other pup, a male, was of normal size, approx. 2-3 times the size of the female. i don't know if she was smaller at birth or the same size. the mother was an all black gsd. i did not see the sire.
now at 16 weeks she weighs 4.6 kilos. the vet mentioned the possibility of thyroid problems at 7 weeks but did not do blood tests or seem too concerned. another vet only today mentioned the possibility of pituitary gland issues & dwarfism but again did not offer a blood test.
the pup still has her baby fur. she eats well, has no vomiting issues, is lively, friendly & intelligent. her littermate is only just starting to get his adult fur now so i figure her fur will start to change in a few weeks.
the vet today really made me worry there was something seriously wrong with my pup yet did not seem too concerned herself. all the reading im doing says the dwarfs are "fox like" in appearence, which i believe my pup is, but i also think she looks like a normal german shepherd puppy, even though she is obviously a lot smaller.
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee517/strangedays101/16112012460_zpsb375d033.jpg
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee517/strangedays101/14012013522_zps415318d5.jpg
the first photo is her at around 9 weeks. the second was taken today at 16 weeks. obviously the easiest way would be to get a blood test but im afraid to at the moment. i'd like to know what other peoples opinions are on her & if she looks "normal" to them. bear in mind her snout looks a lot pointier due to her overbite of 1/2 an inch & you can't see her chin at all! i appreciate your input.


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## Mary Beth

She is so cute! If I were you, I would get the blood test done. Being afraid and not knowing will only make you stressed out which isn't good for your puppy. If it is thyroid, the vet can start her on a supplement which is very inexpensive. The breeder was upfront with you, and I think there is the possibly she could be a dwarf. But that doesn't mean she can't have a normal life. I would follow through on the tests, take your vet's advice, and enjoy your puppy.


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## Lauri & The Gang

I'd say, with about 90% certainty, that she is a dwarf.

It's the look she has - sort of foxy. That is a telltale sign of a dwarf.

Do a Google search on "dwarf German Shepherd" and check out the photos - like this one:


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## MichaelE

She's adorable!


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## Loneforce

MichaelE said:


> She's adorable!


 I agree! what a pretty girl.


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## LittleLady

thankyou all for your kind replies! she is a little sweetheart & we love her dearly. i have made an appointment with a different vet for tomorrow morning. we'll see what he thinks & get the blood test. i've been meaning to see him re: her dental issues anyway as he is the local pet dentist. hopefully he is knowledable in regards to my concerns.
i didn't realise there was such a thing as dwarfism in gsds. i've been reading about runts up until now. i'm surprised one of the vets hasn't mentioned dwarfism until today, nor do they seem concerned about finding out at all. i've now had a look at a lot of info. it seems it would be better to find out sooner rather than later so we can start her on any medication if needed. i don't mind her being small at all, as long as i can give her what she needs to be happy & healthy...


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## BowWowMeow

Oh, she definitely looks like a pituitary dwarf. 

She is super cute! :wub: If you search dwarfs on this site you will find some info. There was a member a few years back who was a breeder and kept back a pup who was a dwarf.


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## wolfstraum

I'd be very suspicious that she is a dwarf...get the thryroid test done ASAP and on to meds [cheap] if needed...they usually do have dental and or heart issues


Lee


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## Narny

wolfstraum said:


> I'd be very suspicious that she is a dwarf...get the thryroid test done ASAP and on to meds [cheap] if needed...they usually do have dental and or heart issues
> 
> 
> Lee


Why would you be suspicious? What would you be suspicious of?


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## GusGus

She's tiny, but absolutely adorable. I want to hold her.


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## msvette2u

OMG that's the cutest thing I've seen in a while!!


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## LittleLady

i've spoken to the breeders & they said when she was born she was the bigger of the 2 pups by about 100 grams (around 700 grams each) but she lost the weight quickly & was bottle fed to ensure she got enough food. they were concerned she may have also been brain damaged due to the long labour but neurologically she is fine. the mother gave birth to the brother first then the labour stopped. my pup was delivered via caesarian 5 hours later. 
hopefully we'll get some answers soon. i'm still a bit annoyed that it wasn't brought to my attention sooner that the potential thyroid problem can be serious. they seemed to want to wait & see if her adult fur developed...? new vet tomorrow. hope this one has some answers i want to hear!
people do pick her as a german shepherd pup so she's not completely weird looking. everyone agrees she is gorgeous!


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## wolfstraum

I was saying that I would really consider that she IS a dwarf.....I had 2 in a litter....they seemed ok for a while, but did not keep pace...I was in deep deep denial....thought they just had bad start, had delayed growth (?) syndrome....etc etc

Even vet was not sure at first as mine had normal dentition and hearts....but we finally did thyroid testing and confirmed they were indeed dwarfs....

The female was black and tan and your puppy looks just like her - the face & expression; she was only 8 pounds as an adult.....the other one was a sable, grew up to be 18 pounds as an adult - and was a total drivey GSD in that little body....both were given away to pet homes who had full knowledge of their conditions - and I believe both are still alive and relatively well.

Lee


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## LittleLady

i appreciate everyones interest, opinions & experience. i was almost not going to post my question as i did not want the answer but the more i look, the more it appears a possibility & something i need to know. will keep everyone informed on Gypsy's results! her heart seems fine btw. the overbite, we'll wait & see...


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## wolfstraum

Good - many many dwarfs have defective hearts....and that is what kills them....hopefully yours lives a long and happy life!

Lee


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## Shade

She's absolutely adorable . You need to keep us updated with photos 

I really hope the medical issues can be fixed and she lives a long and happy life, I'm glad she's with a loving family


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## PupperLove

She is sooooo cute! I really hope you keep updates on her for all of us. I would love to see how she grows, even if it's not much


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## Jax08

Lee - Is this a genetic condition? Isn't it rare to have 1 let along 2 in the same litter?

OP - she's a cutie. Wishing you all the best with her.


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## phgsd

I believe it is genetic - recessive, so if both parents carry the gene, 25% of the litter is likely to be dwarf. I think in Lee's litter there were only 3 (?) pups and 2 were dwarfs - so the genetic dice didn't roll in her favor. 

Good luck with your pup...she is adorable!


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## GSDGunner

I have no advice or opinions other that she is such a gorgeous little creature.
I wish you all the best with her and it certainly sounds like she's in the right hands. 
I hope you stick around so we can watch her grow (or not grow). 
She's positively adorable!!


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## wolfstraum

it is genetic definitely. I talked at length to a research person at the University of Utrecht in the Netherlands...it seems to go back to 3 dogs (many many generations ago) and not be in working lines....except that even working dogs can have Mutz and Canto in their pedigrees too....

There were 4 in my litter - 2 normal, 2 dwarfs.....one was stillborn - I did not breed the female again....I spayed her and she is in a wonderful pet home....Sch3 Pike daughter..... <<<sigh>>>>



Lee


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## Jax08

Is it even possible to tell there is a possibility of this without extensive research, more so than you would normally do, when breeding?


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human

I should NOT have shown my wife these pics... she wants one.... lol
we already have four dogs,,, two under six months of age...lol


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## Lauri & The Gang

Yoschi's_Pet_Human said:


> I should NOT have shown my wife these pics... she wants one.... lol
> we already have four dogs,,, two under six months of age...lol


Oh, sure - dwarf GSDs are cute but they can have serious health issues and some don't live very long.


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## LittleLady

she's had her blood test done. thyroid results should be back within 2 days. pituitary results will take longer, not sure how long... this vet agreed her heart sounded fine. her extreme overbite can also be an indication of dwarfism according to the vet book. will let everyone know how she goes.


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## wolfstraum

You would be hard put to find a dog out there without one of the three genetic sources in it's pedigree....yes - they may be 8 to 15 generations back!!!! - but it is an anomaly that crops up more than you realize....look at the pedigree that I got it from! Pike, Yoshey, Busecker Schloss....very very very widely used dogs....

that is why I shake my head when people say that something in the fifth generation "does not matter".....

Lee


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## carmspack

Fred Lanting has some good information on pituitary dwarfism -- Uran Wildsteiger Land is identified as a source for this problem -- somewhere in one of my old SV magazines there is an article discussing this. http://www.gsdhelp.info/endo/pituitarydwarfism.html


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## wolfstraum

that was the third dog I could not remember! And try to avoid him??? There would be nothing left to use in breeding....

Lee


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## bianca

She is absolutely adorable :wub: and I too wish you both all the very best.

Just out of curiosity are you in Australia too (the KG and Kelpie comments)?


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## Mrs.K

wolfstraum said:


> You would be hard put to find a dog out there without one of the three genetic sources in it's pedigree....yes - they may be 8 to 15 generations back!!!! - but it is an anomaly that crops up more than you realize....look at the pedigree that I got it from! Pike, Yoshey, Busecker Schloss....very very very widely used dogs....
> 
> *that is why I shake my head when people say that something in the fifth generation "does not matter".....
> *
> Lee



That's the first thing I want to know. Who is in the 5th Generation.


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## LittleLady

bianca said:


> She is absolutely adorable :wub: and I too wish you both all the very best.
> 
> Just out of curiosity are you in Australia too (the KG and Kelpie comments)?


yes we are in victoria. from what i've found there are a few other people in Oz with dwarf gsds.
thankyou for your good wishes.


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## bianca

I'm in Vic too!

Have you heard anything more about the results?


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## LittleLady

one lot of blood test results are back in... she has low t4, i think the vet said it was 11 when it should be 18 - 40 in a dog & higher in a puppy. i'll correct that info if i'm mistaken, it was a lot to take in over the phone while i was at work today. we're getting some tablets to improve this tomorrow & another blood test in 6 weeks to see how she's responding. the dna test can take up to 21 days to confirm if the genetic defect is present & she is or isn't a dwarf.
other than the low t4 her blood shows no other concerning issues. there were a lot of little things he said were normal but the ones i remember are the red & white cells are good, no diabetes & no indication of kidney problems at this stage. 
so it's not all bad news today...


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## bianca

That sounds pretty good, at least you are on top of this. Hoping the tablets help :hugs:


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## bianca

Just checking in to see how you are both going?


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## LittleLady

bianca said:


> Just checking in to see how you are both going?


thanks bianca, we are going well here. we are taking 1/4 of a 400 mcg thyroxine tablet twice daily (quite happily with a little bit of peanut butter on it usually!) another blood test to check thyroid levels due at the start of march. still no results from the dna test, i'd say we'll hear next week. growing slowly, 5.3 kilos now at almost 18 weeks! she has lost 8 milk teeth now, all replaced with healthy adult teeth. occasional skin irritations on the belly & ears but nothing drastic. emu oil or sudocream seem to soothe them at this stage.
just waiting for test results to see if we need to start the growth hormones. otherwise we have a happy, energetic, (spoilt??) cheeky little girl who eats anything & gets a lot of attention wherever she goes!


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## blackshep

She is as cute as a button and so lucky to have landed with you!

I'll watch this thread for updates, so glad she mainly seems pretty healthy and fingers are crossed for a long and happy life.

Oh, she is just TOO cute, look at that precious face. I wish you the very best!


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## shannonrae

Oh geeez! She is so super cute! I lover her little face and want to cuddle her. 
She is lucky to have you to take good care of her. 

Keep us updated on her condition please!

Maybe, some more pictures?


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## bianca

Keeping everything crossed that she continues to thrive


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## Mooch

Hi from another fellow Victorian 

Gypsy is cute as could we see some more pictures?

You know I'm surprised people haven't started to purposely try to breed shepherds like that, they would appeal to a lot of people :/ ( NO I do not think that's a good idea!!!!)


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## wyominggrandma

Amazing enough, there is a couple that is planning on breeding their dwarf GSD to produce more. They had a litter with three in it, they are all about a year old and a total health mess, no hair, bare skin, wiry coat, just a total mess, yet they think they are the best thing since sliced bread. No amount of talking does any good... 
The female they kept is a year old, hopefully she just won't come into heat.


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## Mooch

Oh geez - if I was a vet I'd be soooo tempted to spay that dog if it ever came in for a surgery - people are stupid sometimes.


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## Marnie

She's adorable! Best of luck with her. Hope she is otherwise very healthy.


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## LittleLady

these were taken yesterday. she currently weighs 5.7 kilos. she was putting on about a kilo a month but since starting the thyroxine she has put on 1.2 kilos in 3 weeks. she has a tiny bit of hair loss on the side of her snout near her nose which has not progressed too far but has appeared on the other side too now. i'll get the vet to have a look at it soon. apart from that all seems fine. she continues to get her adult teeth. the vet will need to assess if any of these need removing due to her half inch overbite & the risk of them digging holes in her palate. luckily our new vet is an animal dental specialist as well!

i could understand people wanting a dwarf initially but they don't realise what they are getting into. yes, they are cute but the potential side effects are scary & i wouldn't deliberately wish these upon any dog & anyone deliberatly trying to produce this genetic defect should have their dogs confiscated.


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## bianca

Thank you so much for the pics and update, I look everyday for any progress! She is just beautiful :wub: I hope you get the results back soon so you can have a concrete plan in place for her.


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## LittleLady

we are still waiting on dna test results. blood had to be sent to the netherlands. our vet hopes we'll get an answer within the next 2 weeks. i'm sure i know what the answer will be but i need to be sure before progressing with treatment options.
otherwise, our little fluffball is doing well!


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## wolfstraum

Dwarfs can live a normal lifespan if medicated properly and if they have no congenital heart defects...so it sound like you are on top of things....The University of Utrecht in the Netherlands is where they have built a database of pedigrees and the DNA testing as well I believe, so it sounds like your vet is really on top of it!!! 

Good luck and hoping she continues to thrive!

Lee


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## KZoppa

She's still as cute as ever! Like others, I've been keeping an eye on this thread. Glad she's doing well. Hope she continues to do well. She's precious.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Any word on the test results? How is Gypsy doing? We need new pictures!!


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## LittleLady

we're still waiting on the test results. she is doing well. energetic, outspoken & eating well. teeth are coming through nicely. losing a little more fur on her nose which you can see on the photo but nothing too extreme. it doesn't so much fall out as kind of flakes off with a little bit of black skin? the exact same thing happened to my cats ear 6 months ago & the fur grew back ok altho i believe gypsys may be thyroid related... not sure what caused the cats issue.
we have "graduated" from baby puppy school & will be playing with the big dogs next class, which should do her well as she tends to have a dominant streak!
we can sit, drop & shake hands. also can high 5 as a variation of shaking hands. we forget everything we've learnt in the presence of other dogs!


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## Bear GSD

She's adorable and she seems like she's doing we'll!
I love the picture :wub:


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## Shade

She's so cute!!


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## Jelpy

OMNG! SHe looks like a little stuffed toy. I want her! I want her !

Jelpy


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## blackshep

LittleLady said:


> we have "graduated" from baby puppy school & will be playing with the big dogs next class, which should do her well as she tends to have a dominant streak!


Oh my gosh, she really is just a big GSD in a little body. Too cute!

Hope you get the results in soon!


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## bianca

:wub: :wub: :wub: Thanks for the update, I keep checking back


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## KZoppa

She's attitude in a little package huh? Glad she's still doing well and thrilled to hear she's got some spunk in her! Adorable little girl.


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## LittleLady

for those following our story here, we're off to the vets on thursday for a blood test to check T4 levels. still no results on the dna test... we made the 6kg mark which was an achievement!


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## bianca

Yah 6 KGS! Do you think we could have some more pics please?  Good luck for Thursday and you must be so sick of waiting for the other results.


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## GusGus

What a precious little thing. She's absolutely adorable.


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## LittleLady

blood test is done. another mild sedation required! vet says she looks good & everything else seems to be fine. weighed in at an impressive 6.6 kgs!!  results in a few days...








7 weeks old








taken today before the vet visit


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## KZoppa

OMG she's so stinkin cute!!!! Glad she's gaining weight!


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## JackandMattie

OH! She is absolutely Precious! Thank you for sharing her story. What a fortunate blessed litte girl to have you for an owner. 

It is so heartwarming to learn of dogs being so well cared for, especially when their medical needs are extensive.

Our hearts are with you and LittleLady CutiePie :wub:


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## bianca

:wub: :wub: Thank you for posting pics. She melts my heart :wub:


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## LittleLady

i think we know what the answer will be with the dna results but are still waiting nonetheless! our vet said he would be surprised if it came back negative & would question the validity of the testing...


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## LittleLady

all our test results came in today. as expected, the dna test was positive for pituitary dwarfism. her thyroid test shows her t4 is back within normal range with the thyroxine so we test this again in 3 months to see if it's stable.
the next thing for us to consider would be the option of growth hormones. i'm currently discussing this with other dwarf owners to see what choices they made regarding this & why.
the vet says the hair loss on her nose looks like minor bacterial infection & the hair seems to be growing back so it's nothing to be too concerned about.
also currently teething like mad! EVERYTHING is a chew toy. still haven't found a baby tooth to souvenier but i'll keep looking...


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## wolfstraum

That is not a surprise....glad to hear the thyroxine is helping the hair loss....

In spirit, she is still a GSD....so a great big personality in that little body....glad she has you to love her!

Lee


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## LittleLady

*update*

Gypsy continues to do well. her T4 levels are within normal range, now we take 400mcg thyroxine daily & her skin & coat are in great shape. she was desexed this week & had her last 3 milk teeth removed at the same time. she is recovering well from the surgery.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Did you keep the teeth?


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## readaboutdogs

Wow she is really cute! Just saw this tread. I never thought about dwarfism in animals, never saw a pic or article about it, so this is new to me! Good luck with her! I hope she continues to be healthy!


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## bianca

Oh this is wonderful news! Have you had the other results back yet? And may I be pushy  and ask for an updated pic of your beautiful girl please?


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## LittleLady

Lauri, no i wasn't sure if the teeth would be removed so i forgot to ask to have them! Bianca, the dna results were positive for pituitary dwarfism. we don't need any more blood tests for a few months now & that will be to check t4 levels again. still considering the growth hormone option... hopefully a break from blood tests will give her fur a chance to grow back, she looks like a patchwork quilt with 3 various bald patches on her at the moment!
























she hasn't grown much in the last few weeks!


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## lily's master

Sooooo cute! :wub: Shes very lucky to have a owner who loves her so much.


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## Cheyanna

How lucky is gypsy to have loving owners. She is adorable. Looks like she will be a puppy forever. This must be what people mean when they ask if Fiona is a miniature German shepherd. I would say no, she is a puppy.


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## GusGus

oh, my gosh, she's a sweetie! :wub:


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## bianca

Thank you so much for the update and pics :wub: :wub:


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## arycrest

Gypsy's one lucky pup who got you for an owner ... you certainly recognized there was a problem and jumped on doing something about it, glad to hear she's doing well and her thyroid is under control!!! 

She's a cute little pup ... love the pictures of her!!!


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## litiar24

*re: dwarves*

Hi, I have two purebred German shepherds that have pituitary dwarfism. A male, who will be 10 in April, and Millie, who will be 7 in August. Neither are medicated with thyroxin...I have tried the medications and they make no difference to their health at all. The average life expectancy of a GS dwarf is only 5 years, so mine have more than exceeded expectations. Both are hairless, apart from face and feet. Both are very dominant in personality and have no idea they are different to my "normal" Shepherds. Both live inside permanently and only go outside when necessary as neither can control body temperature. And both are extremely happy, viable dogs!! I have a team of great vets that have helped through the years, but most research I have done myself through trial and error, and we are all still here. I have learnt to say no to expensive tests, etc, that are just wasteful and more so, upsetting to my dogs and their mental and physical states. My dwarves are more than happy and comfortable...we know what they are, we know what works, and we don't need to intervene to trace DNA, genetics, etc. All the best with Gypsy, you have many wonderful years ahead!!


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## LittleLady

thankyou for sharing your dwarf story with us litiar24. it is indeed a steep learning curve when you realise there is something a bit different about your pup & i'm pretty new to this game! i'd never heard of dwarfism in dogs before. i have joined a facebook group with other dwarf owners & they have been very helpful with sharing what has worked & not worked for them. we can only do what we think is best, some dwarfs seem more fortunate than others to begin with re: health issues. best wishes for you & your doggy family!


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## KZoppa

Glad she is still doing well! 

Also glad someone else with dwarf shepherds was able to chime in.


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## JennaMae

I have on that is tiny and was told she may also be a dwarf. She also has mega esphagus. At 6 months old she came to me weighing only 19lbs. She is now 24lbs

At 19lbs
Mobile Uploads | Facebook


Now at 24lbs note the small shih tzu for size reference
Timeline Photos | Facebook

Here she is laying with a 5lb shih tzu for size reference
Timeline Photos | Facebook


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## LittleLady

little Gypsy is doing well. she is 7 1/2 months old & a massive 8 kgs now! still very spoilt. she now has a little "brother" Elwood who is 3 months old & 11 kgs. they play well together, sometime it gets quite rough & someone starts squealing but generally it is good natured play. Gypsy is still the boss at the moment & likes to tease Elwood with toys & barks at him til he chases her. they wear each other out running around all day & we are happy they have each other for company.


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## DunRingill

My know someone who adopted a pituitary dwarf that is now approaching his 15th birthday. I don't remember what supplements they use with him but I'm pretty sure they use a dietary approach and supplements along with thyroid support. He still has a full coat of hair and looks great, and he's always been a very active and happy dog! I'm sure if you contact Julia thru her web site von Sontausen German Shepherd Dogs she can give you more info.


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## arycrest

CONGRATS on Gypsy's "little" brother, he's adorable (love his face) ... I'm happy to hear they're getting along so well together. Love the current photo of her, she's looking fantastic, I still say she's one lucky pup to have you as her owner!!!


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## wolfstraum

she looks very very good! Her coat is really nice for a dwarf too...how cute of her and her new 'brother'!!!

Lee


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## wolfy dog

I am glad it is working out for you and the pup. I just hope the AKC won't find out about this and turn it into a new breed. They don't seem to be too much concerned about health issues (Bulldog, Pekingese etc).


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## KZoppa

Glad to see she's still doing well and has a playmate now!!! They're adorable together.


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## LittleLady

we are very lucky with her fur being so good. fingers crossed it stays that way! it is VERY slowly growing back where the vet shaved her for her desexing. i was starting to think it wouldn't at all...


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## LittleLady

Update:
All is well in Gypsys world! her health is good & she made the 10 kg mark. a recent issue with a hygroma that developed on her elbow but it is mostly gone now & doesn't cause her any grief. her "little" playmate Elwood now outweighs her by 16 kg & they love to wrestle & play together.


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## Shade

She's looking great!  I love seeing the size difference between her and Elwood! lol


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## arycrest

Gypsy is looking fantastic ... beautiful young lady ... so glad she's continuing to do well. Love the picture of her with her "little brother"!!! THANKS so much for the update!!!


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## BowWowMeow

Thanks for the update. She looks healthy and happy. So glad she and her little brother get along so well!


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## bianca

Oh she looks wonderful! I am so glad she is doing so well and congrats on your pup too


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## Konotashi

I didn't read through all of this, but I skimmed for pics. 

And let me say. 

Ermehgerd. 
I love her. 

I want to hug her and smoosh her and love on her and give her kisses!! 

*Dies*
SHE'S SO STINKIN' CUTE.


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## blackshep

She is adorable!!! What a cutie, and is so lucky to have landed with such a great home!


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## AnyaMGSD

Hi. I was searching the net for sings of, excuse the crude expression, "abnormalities" in GSD puppies. I currently have a litter of 10, one of which is distinctly different to all the others. (She is my profile pic). She has a much wider, rounder head and shorter snout than all the others. She also acts differently. She is much quieter, not as pushy with food and happy to be on her own. My vet, as yours, never commented on any follow up necessary, even though I voiced my concerns... He just labeled her as the runt. I would really love for anyone to let me know any experiences they have of these special babies and their life expectancy and quality of life. It is with view of deciding whether she stays with us or I find her a very special, educated home. Thank you for your time.


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## wolfstraum

Glad to see an update on Gypsy and her 'little brother'

  

Lee


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## stmcfred

I just read this entire thread, lol.


She is so adorable! Any updates??


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## LittleLady

Gypsy is going well for those asking after her. :wub: She will be having another blood test in the next few weeks to check her t4 & adjust medication if necessary. she has some thinning of her fur on the thighs & chest, typical of hypothyroid dogs. apart from this she is full of beans & gives her little brother a lot of grief if he gets in her way! her extreme overbite has not caused any problems with her eating & the lower canines have not needed to be removed or shortened as anticipated in early days. she continues to be spoilt & loved & gets to sleep on our bed every night. in short, life in Gypsy-world is pretty good at the moment! 


picture is from last week, Gypsy @ 13 months old & Elwood @ 8.5 months old


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## MaggieRoseLee

I'm guessing Gypsy is on the right and looking ADORABLE!!!!


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## arycrest

WOW ... SHE'S A BEAUTIFUL YOUNG LADY ... THANKS FOR THE UPDATE AND PICTURE!!! Gosh, it's hard to believe she's what, about 10 months old already ... she really looks beautiful, you and your vet are doing a fantastic job keeping her health problems under control!!!

Give both the pups a hug and please keep sending updates!!!


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## LittleLady

Gypsy has had another blood test today & her thyroid is in high/normal range which our vet was satisfied with. Was a challenge as ever to get the blood out but no sedation required today, just myself & a vet nurse to hold her still! She was really hating our vet today & wanted OFF that bench asap. Started getting cocky & barking at the vet nurse again once she was back on the floor tho. So that is it for a while with her now, vet-wise. Her missing fur is probably due to lack of growth hormones so I will be doing further research on that to see if it is a valid option.


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## Shade

That picture is precious! Too cute for words :wub:

I'm glad she's doing so well, I'm hypothyroid as well so I can sympathize how hard it can be to get the levels just right.


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## tottie86

This thread made me cry, what a lucky dog to have found a home like yours


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## Lilie

She is still as beautiful as ever!


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## GSDlover143

Definitely a dwarf. But cute as a button!

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## alessandro

Breeders need to test their stock this is a preventable condition, and now with the test one that could be bred out. Vello zu den Sieben-Faulen is one of the principle carriers, it is in all lines, there have been Work Line dwarfs in the US, UK & Ireland most likely other countries to, I have seen a black one from pet lines in the UK, there have been white dwarfs, it isnt just Show lines.
Dwarfs dont just have heart & skin issues but also a weakness in the vertabra close to the head. 
Tanja from the Saarjte Foundation along with Dr Kooistra are co-writing a book on the condition including all the health conditions relating to PD along with treatment protocols.

If you are going to breed please test, you only need to do this once.


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## arycrest

Gypsy is one lucky pup to have found you ... she's looking FANTASTIC


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## GSDlover143

alessandro said:


> Breeders need to test their stock this is a preventable condition, and now with the test one that could be bred out. Vello zu den Sieben-Faulen is one of the principle carriers, it is in all lines, there have been Work Line dwarfs in the US, UK & Ireland most likely other countries to, I have seen a black one from pet lines in the UK, there have been white dwarfs, it isnt just Show lines.
> Dwarfs dont just have heart & skin issues but also a weakness in the vertabra close to the head.
> Tanja from the Saarjte Foundation along with Dr Kooistra are co-writing a book on the condition including all the health conditions relating to PD along with treatment protocols.
> 
> If you are going to breed please test, you only need to do this once.


They didn't breed her... She was given to them as the "runt"

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## LittleLady

alessandro said:


> Breeders need to test their stock this is a preventable condition, and now with the test one that could be bred out. Vello zu den Sieben-Faulen is one of the principle carriers, it is in all lines, there have been Work Line dwarfs in the US, UK & Ireland most likely other countries to, I have seen a black one from pet lines in the UK, there have been white dwarfs, it isnt just Show lines.
> Dwarfs dont just have heart & skin issues but also a weakness in the vertabra close to the head.
> Tanja from the Saarjte Foundation along with Dr Kooistra are co-writing a book on the condition including all the health conditions relating to PD along with treatment protocols.
> 
> If you are going to breed please test, you only need to do this once.


I agree it is an unfortunate genetic defect that can be avoided with selective breeding from dogs that have been dna tested & do not carry the gene. I was not aware there was such a thing as pituitary dwarfism in gsds.

I am in a chat group with other dwarf owners across the world, including Tanja from Saartje Foundation & we are all up to date with the potential heath problems our dogs face. I have emailed Dr. Kooistra on a couple of occasions for information. I am very much looking forward to Tanjas book & will make sure my vet gets a copy once it becomes available!

As much as I adore our little girl I am well aware she faces some challenges that could have been avoided had the breeders screened the dogs prior to mating.

Some dwarfs have lived up to 14 years, others only live 2. We are lucky to have found Gypsy, as she was lucky to have found us!


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## bianca

Oh she is just so beautiful and I am so pleased she is doing well. You are doing a fantastic job with her!


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## alessandro

GSDlover143 said:


> They didn't breed her... She was given to them as the "runt"
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I am aware of that I did read the full posts


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## MaggieRoseLee

Thanks so much for the update!!


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## LittleLady

*update*

Gypsy is doing very well. getting a little bit tubby at 19 months old & 13.6 kgs! she has had some problems with her skin the last few weeks. blisters, peeling, fur loss & itching. vet says it's an omega deficiency. good news is it's getting better & the fur is growing back black instead of gingery brown. lots of supplements, healthy food & malaseb baths. a very spoilt little lady, full of energy, cheek & spirit!


she loves a road trip too, with little big brother elwood!


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## carmspack

Jeck Noricum and Uran Wildsteiger Land , Lasso di val Sole , according to Willis , are known carriers of pituitary dwarfism .

Your pup looks like the little guy in the middle http://www.gsdhelp.info/endo/pituitarydwarfism.html


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## wolfy dog

I hope with all my heart that all breeders will take the dwarfism carriers out of their breeding program to avoid producing unhealthy dogs.
Unfortunately other breeds are not as lucky and suffer from defects because people like their cuteness and the AKC is just as guilty of that.


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## Galathiel

Carmen, the pup looks remarkably like the one in the photo! Actually, on second glance, the dog on the left also looks to have something similar going on...its face is quite foxy.


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## bianca

Oh she looks so good, I am so pleased she is still thriving :wub:


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## LittleLady

*update... 2 years old now!*


Gypsy continues to do well. Her skin problems have mostly gone & her coat is now thick & fluffy. Her 6 monthly blood tests show her t4 levels are within normal range with 400mcg thyroxine given daily. she topped 16 kg at her last weigh in, which was probably a bit on the heavy side for her size so i have cut back a little on the treats & meal sizes!
Overall, still a feisty, happy & very spoilt little girl!


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## tottie86

LittleLady said:


> Gypsy continues to do well. Her skin problems have mostly gone & her coat is now thick & fluffy. Her 6 monthly blood tests show her t4 levels are within normal range with 400mcg thyroxine given daily. she topped 16 kg at her last weigh in, which was probably a bit on the heavy side for her size so i have cut back a little on the treats & meal sizes!
> 
> Overall, still a feisty, happy & very spoilt little girl!





Glad to hear she's doing so well.  she's such an adorable little girl. Xxxx


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## Debanneball

Runt...dwarf.. Does it matter? Gypsy definitely is a keeper! She is beautiful!


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## BowWowMeow

Thanks for the update and glad to hear that she's doing so well!


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## lauren43

Wow! Just read through the whole thread. Kudos to you for taking care of business! She is lovely and you both seem lucky to have each other!

Btw her "little" brother is so handsome!


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## selzer

Jeck, Uran, and Lasso? They are everywhere, especially Uran. Certainly when one produces a dwarf, removing the dogs that produced the dwarf from their breeding program seems reasonable. But, like everything else, you want to determine the incidence of dwarfism before slicing and hacking off everything that may be related to dogs that produced a dwarf. 

No reputable breeder would _want_ to produce this condition, because of the related health concerns. Deliberately breeding an affected dog is disgusting, though, I would be surprised that a bitch with the condition would be fertile, as it sounds like it effects the thyroid gland amongst other things, and that can cause sterility.


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## Zeusthegsd143

Any updated pictures?? It's been a long time since we have had any updates?


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## Ruger Monster

Just came across this thread - how ADORABLE! :wub: I didn't even know dwarfism existed in GSDs. Hope she is doing well!


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## LittleLady

Gypsy is doing well! 2 1/2 now & no new issues with her health. Still the boss of the house & dominant over my other GSD, incredibly cheeky & loved by everyone she meets, even when she barks incessantly at new people that talk to her they think it's adorable! even after cutting out treats she is still a fairly solid 16-17 kg little dog, her nickname is "wombat"... thanks to those asking after her, she is great!




sorry for the fuzzy pics, it's hard to get her sitting still for very long unless she's asleep!


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## Reef LeDoux

Wow what a great puppy and terrific parents you are. Even with human babies things happen, mother nature is not always nice. You love her and she loves you! That's all that matters. Both your GSD's are Beautiful!!


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## selzer

Wow, she's adorable. Glad she has a great home.


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## LittleLady

Gypsy had been doing quite well up until about 5 months ago when she suffered a serious period of renal problems. A lot of treatment & regular blood tests brought her back to moderately functioning kidneys, but she was living on borrowed time. She had a wonderful Summer with lots of love, walks, treats & games. Unfortunately last week she suffered another serious & quick bout of renal failure which was not responding to treatment & the kind choice had to be made to end her suffering. She was 5 1/2 years old. She was a huge personality & is greatly missed around here but i know she had a wonderful life with me & had everything i could possibly provide her. Rest in peace little Gypsy...


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## Genalis_mom

I am so sorry. We just lost our Jack Russell after 19 years of "good boy". It hurts, doesn't it?

You provided her with such a wonderful life! (I read the thread, what a wonderful story for a little dog!)

*hugs*


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## wolfstraum

wolfy dog said:


> I hope with all my heart that all breeders will take the dwarfism carriers out of their breeding program to avoid producing unhealthy dogs.
> Unfortunately other breeds are not as lucky and suffer from defects because people like their cuteness and the AKC is just as guilty of that.




Going back further , Canto, Quando and Mutz are considered the roots of dwarfism. Getting rid of all dogs with these dogs behind them would totally decimate the modern breed.

University of Utrecht did a study on this in the earlier 2000s.....they said they had NEVER seen a dog with Busecker Schloss that was a dwarf. I sent them samples and pedigrees on the two I had (sire pedigree was direct son of Yoshey Dollenweise, dam a Busecker Schloss bred/named female --- dam was a Pike daughter)....going back to the 8-11th generations they still found two of the above and said that was the genetic thread to the dwarfism gene.....

Don't let anyone ever say that genetics past 3 generations don't count!



Lee


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## wolfstraum

I am so so sorry for your loss. You gave her a loving home with the best care for her condition possible....she was a lucky pup to be so loved.

<<<<hugs>>>>


Lee


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## Sunsilver

Sorry for your loss. Health problems 'go with the territory' in dwarves, unfortunately. We know you gave her the best life that you possibly could. :crying:


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## sebrench

I'm so sorry for your loss. You gave her a wonderful life.


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## Jenny720

Very sorry for your loss.


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## wolfy dog

wolfstraum said:


> Going back further , Canto, Quando and Mutz are considered the roots of dwarfism. Getting rid of all dogs with these dogs behind them would totally decimate the modern breed.
> 
> Lee


So it is crucial not to breed the carrier lines together. And yes, to know what is beyond the third generation. Genetics can hide for a very long time until the 'right' match produces the 'flaw'.
I once introduced a Siamese colored mouse into the mouse breeding population at the wild life center (as food for predators). Several years we never saw this coloring until about 5 years later a Siamese mouse popped up in a random litter. Given, we weren't very precise in choosing the breeding trios and didn't have pedigrees for them.


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## Synne

I'm so very sorry for your loss. You both brought something wonderful into each other's life. She was a lucky and very special pup, just like her owner. Thank you for sharing over the years.
Synne


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