# no papers - puppy



## ilovegs (Oct 15, 2013)

feedback please......we have a friend who just had a litter of pups and I am very interested as we've lost our beloved in February and heartbroken, been looking endlessly, so once I learned that my friend was having a litter of gs pups I was giddy with excitement, but now thinking about potential health issues, you see, what worries me is that the female is so-to-say a rescue (the owner found her) so no genetic background known, looks like a purebred and the father is AKC - she had a litter of 9, all healthy, mom is aprox 3 yrs old, dad is aprox 4 yrs old - this is their first litter - fee is $500

what would you do ?


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

$500 for an unpapered dog with a shady background is.... steep, to put it kindly. Hopefully it's their last litter, too- this kind of breeding is exactly why this breed is falling apart.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Pass


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Too expensive, pass. Save a little more and go with a reputable breeder


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

right, either pass or don't pay for a pup from this type breeding. Supporting it with $ will have her breeding again and again.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Pass


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## Mikki (Aug 17, 2014)

I would pass. I'm going to guess that these dogs have no health screening.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

$500 for pups out of a dog they found somewhere??? Yeah, pass for sure. She might be a perfectly nice dog, they might be end up being perfectly nice, healthy pups, but that is way too much money.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

It is just not ethical to breed a rescue dog in my opinion-they found the dog in a bad situation and then bred it


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

holland said:


> It is just not ethical to breed a rescue dog in my opinion-they found the dog in a bad situation and then bred it


People will do anything for $$$


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## The Wild Bunch (Jun 17, 2015)

I am sorry this is a friend and that puts you in a bit of a pickle but the responsible thing to do IMO is to pass. The dog should have been spayed when they found her not placed into a back yard breeder situation. If/When people buy these pups they are feeding the vicious cycle that causes many dogs to have health issues, alter the breed stability, and end up in rescues or shelters, or worse. 

Save your money and find a reputable breeder or if pedigree means nothing to you consider rescue. There are many many wonderful PB GSD's and GSD mixes that need loving homes and most of them are fabulous dogs who got lost in the shuffle.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

I wouldn't pay much more than $50 for a pup like this from a private individual. That would cover first shots, vet exam and food until 8 weeks. Anything more is encouraging them to do it again.


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## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

This seriously hurts my heart. I just rescued a female GSD that was bred without knowing the background on her, and now has a sick litter of puppies. 

500.00 is outrageous for a pup with no know background. I thought the $150.00 per pups my GSD previous owner was selling them for was too much. 

I agree, pass on the pup and find an actual legitimate breeder, or rescue!!!!! I LOVE my rescue!


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## amburger16 (May 22, 2015)

I paid $500 for Bear, unpapered.. From an accidental litter. I don't care about papers, just because a pup may have some health issues does not mean they do not deserve a happy loving home.. And that dog could be in perfect health.. no issues. Bear is perfect, loving, smart and all around a great personality. I don't need to pay over $1000 to have some papers that say where my dog came from, and to end up with HD or something else anyways. I don't like supporting backyard breeders, but I know if I take one.. Thats one less puppy falling victim to scum who THINKS they want a puppy.


Again, I DO NOT believe in backyard breeding, but that doesn't mean its going to stop. I just feel good about myself for taking a puppy out of a situation where it could of been put back into the cycle of breeding, or worse.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

ilovegs said:


> feedback please......we have a friend who just had a litter of pups and I am very interested as we've lost our beloved in February and heartbroken, been looking endlessly, so once I learned that my friend was having a litter of gs pups I was giddy with excitement, but now thinking about potential health issues, you see, what worries me is that the female is so-to-say a rescue (the owner found her) so no genetic background known, looks like a purebred and the father is AKC - she had a litter of 9, all healthy, mom is aprox 3 yrs old, dad is aprox 4 yrs old - this is their first litter - fee is $500
> 
> what would you do ?


 Potential health issues could run you huge money and endless heartbreak. Not to mention the work, stress, trainer cost and worry if this pup has temperament issues-and it's pretty common in poorly bred GSD's. 
If this is a friend, tell them you can take one off their hands for free, or at worst for the cost of the vet fees.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

Personally I wouldn't pay $500 for a dog with an unknown background. My vet knows me very well due to all the illnesses my dogs have. 
For the most part, going to a reputable breeder will stack the deck in your favor as far as health, temperament, etc. 
but, I'm going to play devils advocate.. I bought a dog from a BYB who has some allergies, and a bit of a poor temperament. So that's what can happen with unknown parents. 
I bought my next dog from a reputable breeder. He ended up with mega esophagus costing me on vet bills or I had the option to euth/ and get replacement pup. 
Puppies can be a crap shoot either way. You can "stack the deck" in your favor by going reputable.
The only way to know exactly what you are getting is going with an older pup/dog from a reputable breeder or rescue.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would never pay someone who was breeding rescue dogs with unknown health or lineage. That's like the last thing I would want to hand over my money to support. Yes you can get dogs for under $1000 or whatever but you don't have to support those breeding practices to get a nice pet.


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## CelticGlory (Jan 19, 2006)

I would pass, I would take that money and go to a rescue or a shelter that have German Shepherd puppies ready. Look at RescueMe.org and petfinder.com


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

That's pretty pricey for an unknown litter with no health testing. A friend of a friend's dogs just had a litter of GSD pups that were AKC registered without health testing for $250 and I live in an area where everything is more expensive. I would definitely pass on this one.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I am sorry - but your friend is the worst kind of backyard breeder.....to intentionally breed puppies from a rescued/found female and SELL them? I don't know you or anything about your friends....maybe they believed all those old wives tales about females "needing" to be bred, wanted to let the kids see "the miracle" of birth - or one of so many other BS reasons BY breeders make puppies - or maybe they just thought they could cash in and make a couple of thousand bucks easily....

In any event, this is so lacking in integrity and ethics....offer to take a pup and pay for it's vet visits if you feel strongly about saving one, but buying them will just reinforce the idea of it being easy money (or maybe not after cleaning poop up for weeks if they care properly for this litter!)....hopefully, they will use some of this money to spay the female and not do another litter....

Poor momma dog and pups....  

Lee


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

You are in a sticky situation if these are good friends. I know you want a pup but to get one with unknown genetics and not knowing the mother's background I would not pay except for vet costs. Tell your friend you hope she is saving the money she gets from selling the pups to spay her female as she is not helping the breed. I got my boy Pyrate from the shelter and he had a lot of health problems. He was purebred and his parents had papers but that didn't help any because he was bred by crack dealers who had no idea about health tests or hip exrays, etc. Please encourage your friend to spay, and not breed any more. There are a lot of pups that need rescued. Look into that. The rescues usually have some history on the dogs at least. I wish you luck in getting a healthy active puppy.


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

For $500 you may not get a top line dog but I'm sure you could find something papered and maybe even with some heath testing. For just a little more you could go to a breeder and have a better idea of what you are getting. Or go to a rescue... Too high for what they are offering.


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## Muzbomb (Jun 27, 2015)

I would PASS for that price on no papers for sure


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I don't know if it is a "sticky" situation. These so called "friends" are trying to make easy money and unethical money from YOU. They are not being very thoughtful about you, the dog, the puppies etc. Think nothing of saying "na... thought about it and I'm going to wait for awhile."
Best.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Personally, I think $500 is WAY too much in this situation and I agree with the rest of the posters. 

That being said... if you truly do want a GSD and you would like one of them.. I would tell your friend that she is asking way to much for them and explain why, but you would like you have one and maybe cover the vet costs she has paid for that one pup so far. In any case, that would be like rescuing a pup. You are not giving them a dime to benefit off this breeding, but you are taking a pup out of a situation and giving him/her a wonderful home. 

Now if you are looking for a reputable breeder quality dog, then I would pass regardless. It's all about what you are looking for, but still not compromising your morals about breeding. Depending on how close of a friend this person is, you might want to chat with them about how unethical this situation is.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I don't see that the female has no health clearances. Maybe ask for them, raise issues of training/competition etc when talking with this friend. You can sneak in some education this way. She will have a hard time with AKC shows because the last I knew they required unpapered dogs or dogs with limited registration to be spayed or neutered to compete. She could do some IPO work with her 'though. DVG doesn't require papers.

So let's turn this around from a downer to building some good will and educating someone. 

I think that can be done whether you decline the pup as a result of the answers or buy one perhaps with the condition that the bitch and sire get some working stuff under their belts and certainly ask for health clearances before taking a pup.


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## zudnic (May 23, 2015)

Id say no. Id rather pay more money for a good breeder and have papers, etc. The price though is lower then the back yard breeders are charging here for mix breeds. A mix here is $700 to $800, papers start at $1,100 and up.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm just shaking my head over the fact that they bred a bitch from a completely unknown background. If it was an accidental breeding, they shouldn't be charging more than what it would cost to get the pups vetted, IMO. If it was a deliberate, breeding... well, to me, that's just flat unethical. 

Personally, I wouldn't pay that much on a puppy from them, and would (politely) tell them why.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

...or if you really like a pup and are prepared to take the gamble, offer to desex the bitch in exchange for a pup.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

There are more breeders that are breeding dogs of unknown pedigrees than the responsible breeders...and they get upset if you call them out on what they are doing.
I know of a few crap breeders local to me that don't even want to share a pedigree if it is known, because they know it is not something to be proud of. 

I admin a local GSD page, and don't over-moderate it, but do ask questions if they are placing ads. 
The ones that will stud out their one yr old dog after an oops litter seem to be a given, then they leave the page when people start trying to educate them.


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## Sandy3410 (Jul 4, 2015)

I got this when he was about 3 month old but I am little worried about his breed as I didn't get any paper. So can anyone suggest me about its breed?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

People dont suddenly see the light. It takes a while for some of us to catch on. So just that the people went away after being called out (or introduced to another perspective) doesn't mean that it hasn't had an impact.

I've seen both(?) sides of the $ issue - in that I know some people that spend money in ways I think is silly when they don't have much, others that have enough $ but spend it on stuff I wouldn't and think spending some on the dog is silly, and yet others that spend a lot on their animals and not much on anything else. Even some who are pretty ballanced.


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