# Lunging at Other Dogs to Play



## summerronk

Hi all,

I know there have been other threads on this, and it seems to be a common problem with GSDs, especially when they are between puppy and adulthood. I decided to create a new post because I want to be very specific with what I have tried to fix the problem, that way perhaps some forum users have some really good advice that worked for them.

I have a 6-month old GSD female. Since she was 10/12 weeks, she has always been excited to play with another dog (on leash when out walking). When she would see them, she would walk real fast toward them, almost always do a face-to-face greeting (which I have tried to avoid, but it is difficult), before going around the rear and having a normal greeting. She has never had an aggressive encounter).

Throughout all this time, when she sees another dog on a walk from far, her ears are forward and she is completely focused on that dog. She will sit, and even lay down, but she remains completely focused on that dog and will even reject food (including meat). 

Now that she is 6-months, she has recently started to act a little differently -- hence my new concern. Now when she comes across another dog on leash, she has the same level of attentiveness. Yet if we go to greet that dog, once the dog is about six feet away, she completely LUNGES forward toward that dog -- to the point that if I do not move from my position, she will go up on two legs. However, when she actually reaches the other dog, they nose sniff, she goes around back, and then it is completely normal. 

So the problem is that I cannot figure out how to solve this greeting process. Like I said, when she gets to the other dog, there is no aggression. But the whole process of the meeting is driving me nuts. She almost looks like she is going to attack the other dog (from the other person's point of view), but when she gets there, then the other person calms down because my dog acts normal and will even sit or lay down for me in front of the new dog (once they have met).

Here is what I have tried to fix this:

1. I have tried keeping her at a distance and letting her watch other dogs, without meeting. She is completely alert always, will sometimes take food, will listen to commands, etc. If we actually go and meet that dog, however, she will practice the same lunging behavior.

2. One new thing I have tried is avoiding the meeting IF she is pulling. However, this created a whole new problem. If we encounter another dog on a walk, and I do not let her meet that dog, she will now start to bark and try to lunge if we are somewhat close. For example, the other day we were walking by two min pins and my dog was pulling at the leash to meet them. So, I did not let her meet them (we were about 12 feet away). She then lunged, on two legs because I refused to move, and started barking all of a sudden (which she has never done before in this type of situation - also, it was not a high pitched bark, but a louder bark). We still did not meet the dogs. I kept walking at that point but basically had to drag her along until the dogs were 25 feet away.

3. When we are on walks, my dog always walks beside me or slightly behind me. NEVER in front of me. Even when we get to other dogs on a walk, she gets to them beside me or behind me. So the lunging activity happens once you get within 6 feet. 

4. We are in obedience class, but the problem is that the class has been canceled the last two weeks due to rains, and this behavior has occurred just in that time. At obedience class, she is probably the youngest dog (at six months), and she is fixated on the other dogs, and will sometimes bark, but she really came around and started doing all of the commands in the presence of the other dogs. But, again, we had two weeks off and this behavior has just started occurring in the last week.

5. Per Turid or Cesar, they suggest correcting the behavior the second your dog shows that focused attention on the other dog from afar. Cesar would say give them a gentle touch to snap them out of that focused attention, where Turid would say to treat them the second they show more submissive behavior. However, when my dog is staring at the other dog from far, neither of these work. I am going to keep trying to get her to show submissive behavior to give her a treat, but it is not easy. And the gentle touch idea does not work (or I cannot find the place on her body where it would work). To be honest, I think I could smack her with a newspaper (not that I would ever do this) and she would not shift her gaze!!! That's how intense it is! 

6. Finally, as a I said, when she is with the other dogs, she practices normal behavior. There are about four dogs we meet regularly that she does not really do this behavior with. It is mostly with new dogs. 

Thanks everyone! Sorry for the novel posting!!


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## MaggieRoseLee

I'd really purchase and watch the DVD 'Calming Signals' by Turid Rugass. A huge help to us 'stupid' humans who don't get what dogs are saying to each other all the time. She also shows and explains how the WORST thing to do when dogs are greeting is let our dog drag us over so the dogs are in front and humans behind. Instead she recommends 'splitting' and keeping our human bodies inbetween the dogs which is calming AND puts us in control. Control THE DOGS understand merely by where we are standing and not cause we are yelling, jerking, pulling, TENSE. Just by where we stand/walk.

If you haven't had a chance to teach the clicker yet... I'd start up with that (click this ----> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-intro-clicker-training-perfect-puppies.html )

Because then you can start this:


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## paulag1955

I'm going to be watching this carefully because I have the same problem with Shasta. You know you need to socialize your dog, but it's nearly impossible to do so. No one wants to let their dog approach when she's barking and lunging and her hackles are up. It's nearly impossible to take her anywhere where you might encounter other dogs; it's exhausting for us and for her not to mention embarrassing. And it's not as though I have a huge repertoire of dog-owning friends who can help with training. I'm pretty much at my wit's end on this.


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## summerronk

Hi Maggie,

The only thing I wanted to add, in light of your video posting, is that this behavior primarily happens on walks. For example, every Sunday I bring my pup to a bar that allows dogs on Sundays (it is outside, and every dog is leashed, and they serve food, beer, etc.). Usually there are around 5-8 dogs at a time as people come in and out. In this setting, she does not practice the behavior. Yes, she is still very interested in the other dogs, and will greet them pretty intensely, but because there are SO many dogs, the behavior is different. The same is true when we are at a carnival or a fair, where there are a lot of other dogs. It is almost as if in these situations she is OVER STIMULATED, so suddenly she is much calmer meeting other dogs.

The behavior I am talking about seems to manifest itself primarily during WALKS, when it is just us and another dog from afar that is approaching. That is when I really notice this problem.

Also, I already purchased "Calming Signals" about two months ago. GREAT GREAT DVD! Thanks for recommending it before. That being said, I am trying to put into practice these various methods, but nothing has worked so far. Remember, this has only really been happening bad for about 1.5 weeks. I am happy to say that every other problem my dog has had (nipping, temper tantrums, etc.) I have beat over time through constant training. The problem is I cannot really figure out a good way to correct this behavior yet.


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## doggiedad

there's no problem with a GSD or any other
dog wanting to play with other dogs. i think
the problem is the owners of the lunging
dogs don't train or socialize enough
or correctly. you said your dog has lunged (to play)
at dogs since she was 10 weeks old. now
your dog is 6 months and still lunging. i
think a lot of training and socializing around
dogs will help.



summerronk said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I know there have been other threads on this, and it seems to be a common problem with GSDs, especially when they are between puppy and adulthood.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Summeronk, it's good that this isn't happening all the time. And that you are getting on this right away. Try to use distance, and the 'curving' and 'splitting' that Rugass recommends. Also if you can turn and continue your walk IN THE SAME DIRECTION as the oncoming dog (only not oncoming any more) .... both dogs/handlers walking in the same direction helps with behavior like you are describing. It's the head to head with us allowing our dogs to be in the lead with the leash tight that is the worst...

Watch the video 'The Surprise Party' and see if you can work that into your walks...


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## GSD07

When she's fixated it's too late to try snapping her out of it by touch etc, you need to do it much earlier. In case she's already fixated you just need to remove her from the situation, forget about any commands etc, and do not let her get to the other dog. Keep in mind that that other strange dog may not tolerate this behavior either, and things can get nasty rather quickly. 

Remember that every time she lunges and gets to greet the dog she practices and reinforces this behavior.


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## Obelix

I'll be watching this as well, I have a 6.5 month old male, has done this with the barking, since 3 months old. No one has one simple answer, so I'm also trying everything possible, and tons and tons of socialization. Tons of research, training etc. Friend is suggesting a shock collar, but I'm not interested in that yet, I haven't given up. (yet)


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## billsharp

I had this exact problem with Liesl at about age 6 months. I watched reactive dog videos and Cesar and here's what I did, which worked.

The dog needs to learn on a walk that it is to focus on you and your desires, period. Unfortunately, IMHO, the distraction of another dog is the single most attractive distraction there is for a dog on a walk, other than possibly a squirrel.

Use a pinch or prong collar, whatever works to get your dog's undivided attention. No treat is as compelling to a dog as meeting another dog is, so forget the " calm down and reward" technique. (Would you opt for eating a piece of hamburger over meeting that hot new neighbor who just moved in? I thought not.)

Be aware of dogs walking ahead of you, and keep an eye on your dog as you continue to approach. The MOMENT your dog sees that other dog and her ears prick up, correct her firmly with the chain. If you wait too long she'll be fixated; if you time it right she will associate her interest in the other dog with the unpleasant correction. Find a verbal command to use with the correction (I use "me.")

Your dog should look at you when this happens, like "What the heck?" PRAISE your dog for looking at you then but keep moving steadily forward. Your dog will likely then look back at the other dog and attempt to ear focus again. You must instantly REPEAT--correct the dog, and praise it for looking up at you. Keep walking toward the other dog, keep correcting, do NOT let your dog focus on the other dog. The idea is that you and your chain are a bigger distraction than the other dog is. Pass it by and keep on doing this until you leave the "zone of interest." Once your dog relaxes and resumes its normal walking posture you can relax until the next dog encounter. Remember to praise your dog--meeting another dog should be a positive experience, but it must be per your terms, not your dog's.

The first several times you do this your dog may be resistant and insistent on ramping up interest in the other dog. If so, REVERSE your course immediately and firmly so you are walking away from the dog. Reverse again, and again, and again -- the idea is that your dog is confronted with a choice between following his instinct and focusing on the other dog or keeping up with you and your constant correction and reverses. If you are firm and insistent you will win this battle for his attention. If you reward with praise he will learn that focusing on you rather than other dogs is a good thing. 

You need to test this as often as possible so do not avoid walking by other dogs. Seek out opportunities to walk approaching them so you work this as many times as possible on each walk.

My apologies to the "positive only" people, and I welcome posting of a "positive only" solution to your problem. All I can say is this worked for me in about 1-2 days. We can now approach other dogs on leash, face-to-face, with no lunging, and I rarely have to reinforce this training.


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## APCURLS

Thanks for the thread, Summerronk! You've described almost to the last action each walk I take with Draco! He was a shelter dog for a while, so I wonder if he fence fought a lot and doesn't know what to do or what, but from the few interactions we've allowed him to have with other dogs, he's eager to meet and play, and when the other dog meets, greets, then ignores, Draco gets upset and barks / growls. I've been trying different techniques, but it's not really getting better... I hope you are able to get a handle on your pup! 



paulag1955 said:


> I'm going to be watching this carefully because I have the same problem with Shasta. You know you need to socialize your dog, but it's nearly impossible to do so. No one wants to let their dog approach when she's barking and lunging and her hackles are up. It's nearly impossible to take her anywhere where you might encounter other dogs; it's exhausting for us and for her not to mention embarrassing. And it's not as though I have a huge repertoire of dog-owning friends who can help with training. I'm pretty much at my wit's end on this.


Exactly!!! I totally agree!! It's hard to find other owners who are willing and patient enough... 



doggiedad said:


> there's no problem with a GSD or any other
> dog wanting to play with other dogs. i think
> the problem is the owners of the lunging
> dogs don't train or socialize enough
> or correctly. you said your dog has lunged (to play)
> at dogs since she was 10 weeks old. now
> your dog is 6 months and still lunging. i
> think a lot of training and socializing around
> dogs will help.


I agree and have tried to socialize Draco... But, as I stated above, there aren't many owners out there willing to help. I'm afraid to take him to the dog park as we've only had him a little over a month and has great recall at home with no distractions but I don't know what to do when we're around other dogs. 



billsharp said:


> I had this exact problem with Liesl at about age 6 months. I watched reactive dog videos and Cesar and here's what I did, which worked.
> 
> The dog needs to learn on a walk that it is to focus on you and your desires, period. Unfortunately, IMHO, the distraction of another dog is the single most attractive distraction there is for a dog on a walk, other than possibly a squirrel.
> 
> Use a pinch or prong collar, whatever works to get your dog's undivided attention. No treat is as compelling to a dog as meeting another dog is, so forget the " calm down and reward" technique. (Would you opt for eating a piece of hamburger over meeting that hot new neighbor who just moved in? I thought not.)
> 
> Be aware of dogs walking ahead of you, and keep an eye on your dog as you continue to approach. The MOMENT your dog sees that other dog and her ears prick up, correct her firmly with the chain. If you wait too long she'll be fixated; if you time it right she will associate her interest in the other dog with the unpleasant correction. Find a verbal command to use with the correction (I use "me.")
> 
> Your dog should look at you when this happens, like "What the heck?" PRAISE your dog for looking at you then but keep moving steadily forward. Your dog will likely then look back at the other dog and attempt to ear focus again. You must instantly REPEAT--correct the dog, and praise it for looking up at you. Keep walking toward the other dog, keep correcting, do NOT let your dog focus on the other dog. The idea is that you and your chain are a bigger distraction than the other dog is. Pass it by and keep on doing this until you leave the "zone of interest." Once your dog relaxes and resumes its normal walking posture you can relax until the next dog encounter. Remember to praise your dog--meeting another dog should be a positive experience, but it must be per your terms, not your dog's.
> 
> The first several times you do this your dog may be resistant and insistent on ramping up interest in the other dog. If so, REVERSE your course immediately and firmly so you are walking away from the dog. Reverse again, and again, and again -- the idea is that your dog is confronted with a choice between following his instinct and focusing on the other dog or keeping up with you and your constant correction and reverses. If you are firm and insistent you will win this battle for his attention. If you reward with praise he will learn that focusing on you rather than other dogs is a good thing.
> 
> You need to test this as often as possible so do not avoid walking by other dogs. Seek out opportunities to walk approaching them so you work this as many times as possible on each walk.
> 
> My apologies to the "positive only" people, and I welcome posting of a "positive only" solution to your problem. All I can say is this worked for me in about 1-2 days. We can now approach other dogs on leash, face-to-face, with no lunging, and I rarely have to reinforce this training.


Thank you for the wonderful tips! I'll be trying this on our next walk! One question - when you say reverse again and again, is this with the same dog approaching? I try reversing when I see another dog approaching, but Draco just turns and keeps focuing on the dog so I don't know if going in circles would work? I will try it though!  Thanks!!


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## summerronk

Bill - Thanks for this post.... It has been a week since my original post -- no progress yet... It is frustrating for me because every other problem she had (such as nipping, etc.), I was able to rather quickly find what worked to solve it, and then the consistency eventually cured it. With this whole lunging on walk issue, I cannot find one way to solve it yet!! I took her to the pet store the other day, and there were about 10 other dogs there, and she was oblivious to the other dogs! ha ha. But it was because the experience is overhwhelming, she wasn't interested on focusing or playing with the other dogs. Yet on the WALK, when she sees that other dog from afar, it is just a nightmare to remove her fixation. What is REALLY frustrating is that since she was nine weeks old, I have had her around other dogs CONSTANTLY! And now, at six months, she suddenly has this fixation issue.

Let me respond to your comments:

1. So, I use a rope slip leash primarily, and when I try to correct her initial fixation, it just does not do the trick. I cannot break that initial fixation. For the "positive" training folks, I even dangled fresh corned beef in front of her face (and tried liver), and she is completely uninterested when she sees the other dog on the walk. She won't take the food.

So, Bill, I could go to the slip chain, but I prefer not to use the chain... Not that I am against it, but I do not like the image it conveys to be honest (to the other people who my dog may greet). But maybe I should try this.

2. As for reversing course, my only question about this is: If you reverse course, doesn't this send the signal to your dog that she should fear meeting other dogs? If every time we avoid it and walk the other way (rather than by), then won't she begin to have a negative association? 

Thanks!



billsharp said:


> I had this exact problem with Liesl at about age 6 months. I watched reactive dog videos and Cesar and here's what I did, which worked.
> 
> The dog needs to learn on a walk that it is to focus on you and your desires, period. Unfortunately, IMHO, the distraction of another dog is the single most attractive distraction there is for a dog on a walk, other than possibly a squirrel.
> 
> Use a pinch or prong collar, whatever works to get your dog's undivided attention. No treat is as compelling to a dog as meeting another dog is, so forget the " calm down and reward" technique. (Would you opt for eating a piece of hamburger over meeting that hot new neighbor who just moved in? I thought not.)
> 
> Be aware of dogs walking ahead of you, and keep an eye on your dog as you continue to approach. The MOMENT your dog sees that other dog and her ears prick up, correct her firmly with the chain. If you wait too long she'll be fixated; if you time it right she will associate her interest in the other dog with the unpleasant correction. Find a verbal command to use with the correction (I use "me.")
> 
> Your dog should look at you when this happens, like "What the heck?" PRAISE your dog for looking at you then but keep moving steadily forward. Your dog will likely then look back at the other dog and attempt to ear focus again. You must instantly REPEAT--correct the dog, and praise it for looking up at you. Keep walking toward the other dog, keep correcting, do NOT let your dog focus on the other dog. The idea is that you and your chain are a bigger distraction than the other dog is. Pass it by and keep on doing this until you leave the "zone of interest." Once your dog relaxes and resumes its normal walking posture you can relax until the next dog encounter. Remember to praise your dog--meeting another dog should be a positive experience, but it must be per your terms, not your dog's.
> 
> The first several times you do this your dog may be resistant and insistent on ramping up interest in the other dog. If so, REVERSE your course immediately and firmly so you are walking away from the dog. Reverse again, and again, and again -- the idea is that your dog is confronted with a choice between following his instinct and focusing on the other dog or keeping up with you and your constant correction and reverses. If you are firm and insistent you will win this battle for his attention. If you reward with praise he will learn that focusing on you rather than other dogs is a good thing.
> 
> You need to test this as often as possible so do not avoid walking by other dogs. Seek out opportunities to walk approaching them so you work this as many times as possible on each walk.
> 
> My apologies to the "positive only" people, and I welcome posting of a "positive only" solution to your problem. All I can say is this worked for me in about 1-2 days. We can now approach other dogs on leash, face-to-face, with no lunging, and I rarely have to reinforce this training.


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## summerronk

doggiedad said:


> there's no problem with a GSD or any other
> dog wanting to play with other dogs. i think
> the problem is the owners of the lunging
> dogs don't train or socialize enough
> or correctly. you said your dog has lunged (to play)
> at dogs since she was 10 weeks old. now
> your dog is 6 months and still lunging. i
> think a lot of training and socializing around
> dogs will help.


Just to be clear, I did not say this: "you said your dog has lunged (to play)
at dogs since she was 10 weeks old. now your dog is 6 months and still lunging." What I said was, "Since she was 10/12 weeks, she has always been excited to play with another dog (on leash when out walking). When she would see them, she would walk real fast toward them, almost always do a face-to-face greeting (which I have tried to avoid, but it is difficult), before going around the rear and having a normal greeting."

There is no doubt that she was excited, but she was a puppy, so I was not going to harshly correct a puppy for wanting to play with the other dog. Plus, I of course welcomed these encounters because I wanted to socialize her properly (since she has been 10 weeks old, she probably had two dog interactions a day, EVERY day -- not always different dogs of course. I live in a very dog friendly area). 

The difference, though, is that if I told her to sit, she WOULD sit. If I walked BY the dog, she WOULD walk by, although she would definitely look at the other dog. She deferred to me until about six months. 

Now, starting a couple of weeks ago, this behavior is completely different. Now, she basically DEMANDS to try to meet that other dog, and is completely oblivious to the fact that I am holding the other end of the leash. So this behavior is much more concerning than what she has ever done before. 

Anyway, my intent is not to be defensive.... I'm trying to figure out how to solve the problem.


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## mikey8270

I have the same problem with mine. He is 8 months old, and stays nicely engaged with me...until we walk by another dog. He gets very fixated, lunges and barks if I try to keep distance from the other dog. He's never aggressive, he just wants to play play play. I haven't had any success with preventing or correcting this behavior.

Thank you summerronk for this thread. I'm with you trying to figure out how to solve this problem.


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## summerronk

No luck yet... But, I did confirm that the lunging is definitely to "play." We were at a dog event yesterday, and on leash she was able to play with two Golden Retrievers for like 10-15 minutes. They were playing all cute and normal. Well, 10 minutes later, we were separated from the other two dogs, and the retriever was pulling to get to my dog again, and my dog started to pull to get to the retrievers. They were about 8 feet apart. When they could not get close, the retriever barked and my dog did that crazy nasty sounding bark and lunge again -- to the SAME dog she just had a good time with.

Well, obviously I did not let them meet. But 30 minutes later, before we left, we let them meet again, and they played all cute and laid down next to each other. 

So, it seems that her nastiness is strictly from not being able to meet and greet the dog. Anyway, at least i know she doesn't want to KILL the other dog. This doesn't make the problem any better.

Right now I am working on the whole threshold idea and keeping as much distance as possible on the walk.


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## summerronk

I wanted to say, though, that now a NEW problem just popped up out of nowhere. Could she be going through a teenage phase right now? She is seven months old.

So, starting four days ago, all of a sudden she has been biting me walking on leash! She never did this before. She will start with a gentle grab of my pants or shorts when we are walking and she is on my left. Then, she starts to jump up on me -- again, she has never done this before and never challenged me like this on leash. 

It has gotten to the point now I am having trouble completing the walk. Any attempts to stop her seem to escalate the problem and she gets more and more angry and stubborn. Some walks she is fine, others she is starting this behavior.


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## Eiros

I'm not sure if this is helpful or not, but something we are trying with Jack (who also starts barking and lunging when he gets close to other dogs) is that when they are father enough away we put him in a sit-stay and watch the other dogs pass by. I have him practice "watch me" and reward. If he breaks the sit he is corrected. If the other owners are receptive, Jack and the other dog can meet ONLY if Jack is not barking or breaking his sit. Then we give the OK and he can greet the other dog. If he is too hyped up we turn around and he does not get to meet them. 

We usually only need to do this at the beginning of a walk, after awhile he becomes used to the idea of other dogs around and we can walk passed other owners with more ease. We walk regularly in a group with 5-10 other GSD owners and we get lots of practice on this!


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## dosovm

I am a newbie on this forum and dont like to help when there are others way more experienced than I am but a 6 month dog is still a puppy and a puppy thats getting more confident and testy(tries to test you) so him all of a sudden not listening or demanding could be just a small face. a good jerk and turn around and another jerk and turnaround and just consistence in being more demanding than the dog will work sooner or later. I do what *billsharp* posted above about a chain, a jerk, and consistence and it works within a couple of days. a situation or behavior that needs to be corrected is something i look forward to fixing right away and something like that would make me take a day off work and go straight to a public park with a lot of dogs and spending a good 2-3 hours of demanding attention infront of other dogs. Reinforcing it again the next day normally fixes most of the problems. good luck to you and frankly i'm jealous and miss so much of having a pure bread GSD.


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## spidermilk

I am reading "Control Unleashed" by Leslie McDevitt- the book is aimed at people who want to do agility with an overstimulated/reactive dog but the exercise can be used by anyone.

One thing they talk about in the book is that if your dog isn't taking treats or paying any attention to you (your dog is basically completely fixated on the other dog or having a melt down)- the dog can't learn anything in this state. They call this "over threshold". For your dog to learn they need to be under threshold. So, you need to learn how far away you need to be- maybe 3 blocks away at first and work at that distance. 

Another wildly popular exercise in Control Unleashed is "Look at That (dog)". Basically you reward your dog for making a VERY quick look at another dog. You click as soon as you dog looks at the other dog and that will cause your dog to quickly look back at you for a treat. A lot of people on this forum use it, there must be some threads about it - Control Unleashed is a great book and goes into great detail with everything and WHY these things work.


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## summerronk

I have made a little progress, if you can call it that. So, I brought my baby to a dog park yesterday (she is 7 months). I made sure there were not that many dogs there and watched the dynamic -- all the dogs were calm. 

We stayed for about an hour and she loved it. BUT, I was able to put her on the leash and walk her by the other dogs without any problems. I barely did it because I did not think of the idea until the end of my time there. But today I may go and keep her on leash for a little bit to get her used to walking by other dogs on leash. Perhaps this will help with my problem.

The other step I am going to take is to try to get her to focus on me AT the dog park. Yesterday she was just oblivious to me, having so much fun with the other dogs. But I am going to start doing training in the dog park to see if I can work on her attention in the presence of other dogs - similar to what Dosovm said below.

As a sidenote, I am not a fan of dog parks, because I feel that one mistake by an aggressive dog at the park could traumatize my dog. If you watch Cesar, many people whose dog became dog aggressive had a bad experience at a dog park. But, considering how well it went yesterday, I may continue to go occasionally to try to solve this problem.


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## s14roller

I have the same issue as well. 

It looks scary for the other dog owner probably since my dog lunges and also barks...but she hasn't shown aggression toward other dogs yet, so I have tried just letting her go in...and all she does is sniff.


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## martemchik

I have a super friendly GSD, he's 13 months and has always wanted to meet/play with any dogs he sees. My question to you is do you go to structured training classes with her? The trainers at our club all called my pup the "social butterfly" he could really care less how the other dog was acting, he would come up to meet him/her. The thing that really helped us was the weaving practice we did in class. The dog is forced to walk around other dogs in very close quarters and the only way to get him through it was a lot of quick corrections with the prong collar.

The weaving might also help you because she won't be able to fixate on just one dog. As soon as she passes one dog, there is another one in front of her, and then another one, and then another one. All the dogs are controlled and this even trains the dogs sitting to not move and leave the dog walking by alone.

The only issue we have now is when we're not in training he will really pull towards dogs he knows. Other dogs are quite easy to pass by, but if it is one of his "friends" that he wrestles with and has a good time with then it takes a lot harsher corrections to get him focused on the walk. I don't really suggest doing that as I don't know your dog and she does bark aggressively where is my dog never barked aggressively and would only whimper to show he wanted to play.

I actually really like dog parks, the only problem is you can't get everyone to control their dogs just because you want to work on this problem with your dog so I don't suggest going to one until you are very confident. My dog has been attacked by dogs, but it has never ever done anything to his confidence and he will still play with any kind of dog you throw at him.

Don't worry about turning around and walking the other way, she won't start to think that its bad to play with other dogs from that. I did that all the time in order to get him to calm down. I think she will calm down with age and with training, so I suggest finding a good club/trainer and getting a good collar. You'd be surprised how much less they want to pull when there is a prong/choke around their neck.


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## BowWowMeow

New isssue (the biting): Your dog is not "angry." Your dog wants to play with you. Rafi did this when I first adopted him. He would grab the leash and drag me all over the place. When you fight back you are giving her exactly what she wants: attention! I would do the following: When she starts to grab you stop moving and turn your body and your mind away from her. Cross your arms. Do not make eye contact. Withdraw yourself from her. Wait until she offers you a more desirable behavior (even 4 feet on the ground and being calm will do at first). Then redirect to something. With Rafi I use a toy. He carries a ball with him on every single walk (even if we walk for 4 hours). This helps him stay focused on his "job" and if he gets really excited he chomps on the ball instead of on me or jumping up and down or something. 

Rafi also went through the leash reactivity a couple months after I adopted him. I used L.A.T. (Look at that) and redirected. I also used a Sense-ation harness so that I had control of his whole body and wasn't yanking on his neck. 

Try this: Practice L.A.T. (Look at that). You've got to get the dog's attention _before_ they are over their threshold. Dangling a piece of meat in front of a dog's face when they already reacting is not practicing positive reinforcement. If you dog did take the bait at that moment you would be rewarding the undesired behavior! This explains how LAT works Look at That! A Counterintuitive Approach to Dealing with Reactive Dogs Dog Training for Dog Lovers Blog


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## summerronk

BowWowMeow said:


> New isssue (the biting): Your dog is not "angry." Your dog wants to play with you. Rafi did this when I first adopted him. He would grab the leash and drag me all over the place. When you fight back you are giving her exactly what she wants: attention! I would do the following: When she starts to grab you stop moving and turn your body and your mind away from her. Cross your arms. Do not make eye contact. Withdraw yourself from her. Wait until she offers you a more desirable behavior (even 4 feet on the ground and being calm will do at first). Then redirect to something. With Rafi I use a toy. He carries a ball with him on every single walk (even if we walk for 4 hours). This helps him stay focused on his "job" and if he gets really excited he chomps on the ball instead of on me or jumping up and down or something.
> 
> Rafi also went through the leash reactivity a couple months after I adopted him. I used L.A.T. (Look at that) and redirected. I also used a Sense-ation harness so that I had control of his whole body and wasn't yanking on his neck.
> 
> Try this: Practice L.A.T. (Look at that). You've got to get the dog's attention _before_ they are over their threshold. Dangling a piece of meat in front of a dog's face when they already reacting is not practicing positive reinforcement. If you dog did take the bait at that moment you would be rewarding the undesired behavior! This explains how LAT works Look at That! A Counterintuitive Approach to Dealing with Reactive Dogs Dog Training for Dog Lovers Blog


You are completely right regarding the biting. I have noticed that WHEN I stare at her, this escalates! It is hilarious. Once you start locking eye contact, she does the behavior more aggressively. If I ignore her, she does it much less.

Also, what I have started to do when she does it is immediately make a circle while walking. Meaning, if she starts to jump up or bite, I act like nothing happened and turn around and walk a few steps and then loop back and continue walking the same direction. I've noticed that the sudden change in direction forces her to concentrate on walking, and not on biting. This has worked pretty well, although not flawless.

On the LAT, I am going to go to the link right now and read up on it. Thanks!!!!


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## summerronk

So, an annoying thing happened today. I can't say my dog is better with the leash issue, but what I've been doing is swinging out when another dog is coming (per Turid Rudgraas), and I just keep walking. When my dog tries to get across the front of me, I just block her with my leg and keep walking. Once she gets far away from the dog and puts her focus back on me, I will treat her for focus. 

However, as if I already do not have enough problems with this, today I had what is hopefully not a setback.

I am walking my dog and there is a woman with her black lab coming toward me. Well, the black lab also appeared to be leash aggressive. She could not hold her dog back and the dog yanked her forward onto her face, and came flying toward me and my dog (this is all before my dog even reacted. Meaning, we were still pretty far away). I think that the lab wanted to play, possibly, but the movement was so aggressive she jumped directly at my dog (and I tried to block the other dog), and nipped at her ear, to which my dog yelped. By that time, the lady had already subdued her dog onto the ground on its side. 

There was no damage to my dog (perhaps only emotionally!!), and we kept going like nothing happened (after i spoke to the lady briefly) and my dog seemed fine. She was totally scared to walk past the dog, but did not lunge or do anything. Once we were 30 feet away, she seemed totally normal walking with me and was not acting fearful or as if something had just happened.

So I hope this was not a major setback. Now, of course, she is probably thinking, "Hey, I have REASON to be worried about other dogs because stuff like THIS happens!"


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## summerronk

Happy to report that problem is largely solved. It is all about control over the dog. If anyone is interested, let me know and I can post what the solution is. Be aware, my dog was not aggressive, but would look aggressive because she wanted access to that other dog to play. I am not sure whether my solution would work for a dog that is genuinely aggressive or not a puppy. 

Basically, it came down to using a pinch/prong collar, and being under complete control of my dog during the entire walk. The dog is never allowed to walk in front of me. If she does so, she is walked backwards until she is behind me. And then I proceed to walk forward again. This simple technique is WAY better than any other correction. It is so simple yet works so well. 

When you assert this heightened level of leadership over the dog, passing other dogs becomes almost a non-problem. My dog will still get interested, but she knows the rules so she does not lunge anymore or make any noise whatsoever.

Now, if I decided I wanted to actually meet that dog, I would walk past the dog, and then circle back so that the meeting is more face to rear rather than face to face. That way I can reach the other dog without a lunge taking place, and then the greeting is totally normal because it is on calm terms. 

Also, at least with my dog, the pinch/prong collar is WAY MORE successful than the slip/choke collar. I am not speaking against slip/choke collars. But, for my dog at least, she is MUCH MORE responsive to the prong collar. 

If anyone has any questions, I'd be happy to help!


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## MaggieRoseLee

Great news summerronk! Sounds like you've listened and learned, tried out different things and found out a method that's putting in you control of the situation and working well.

Just having a good plan that works confirms the control of the situation so it tends to work out well. 



> Basically, it came down to using a pinch/prong collar, and being under complete control of my dog during the entire walk. The dog is never allowed to walk in front of me. If she does so, she is walked backwards until she is behind me. And then I proceed to walk forward again. This simple technique is WAY better than any other correction. It is so simple yet works so well.
> 
> Now, if I decided I wanted to actually meet that dog, I would walk past the dog, and then circle back so that the meeting is more face to rear rather than face to face. That way I can reach the other dog without a lunge taking place, and then the greeting is totally normal because it is on calm terms.


Both of those comments are great techniques to help in these situations!


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## longhairshepmom

Congratulations  Every dog is different and different methods work for different dogs !
The important part is that you put a definite STOP to this escalating behavior, no matter how. A prong collar isn't cruel if used correctly. 
Seems to me that your girl just blew you off in those situations and your attemps were just "nagging" to her, which just made her push right back, sort of like a shoving match.
It is better to use a harsher method if it will cut through this cycle very clearly and definite, before it becomes ingrained in her to blow you off in those situations.
It doesn't mean that you will always have to use the prong, but the nice thing about it is, if the dog behaves, there is NO correction from the prong. 
It doesn't take place of proper training or socialization, but it helps to put the brakes on a undesirable and escalating behavior.
Well done


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## summerronk

longhairshepmom said:


> Congratulations  Every dog is different and different methods work for different dogs !
> The important part is that you put a definite STOP to this escalating behavior, no matter how. A prong collar isn't cruel if used correctly.
> Seems to me that your girl just blew you off in those situations and your attemps were just "nagging" to her, which just made her push right back, sort of like a shoving match.
> It is better to use a harsher method if it will cut through this cycle very clearly and definite, before it becomes ingrained in her to blow you off in those situations.
> It doesn't mean that you will always have to use the prong, but the nice thing about it is, if the dog behaves, there is NO correction from the prong.
> It doesn't take place of proper training or socialization, but it helps to put the brakes on a undesirable and escalating behavior.
> Well done


Completely agree! And just so people know, if you use the prong collar correctly, it does not hurt at all! As Leerburg says, "it is like cruise control for dogs." But I have the prong collar on her all the time, and when she gets ahead and I move her back, she does not yelp, does not look bothered, NOTHING, but she DOES react by moving where I want her to move. She has no issue with it.

NOW, if you YANK the leash with the prong on, that CAN hurt them (because it PINCHES, not strangles - so you will not damage)! But you don't need to do that with a prong collar. All you need to do is gently pull and it gets the message across with NO pain. Just mild discomfort.

But remember, just putting the prong collar on doesn't mean that your problem will be solved. You have to use it correctly and understand what actions you need to take, in combination with the prong usage, to convince the dog what YOU want.


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## billsharp

Congrats and well-described in your solution post. It's all about control. 

When the dog knows that you will correct a lunge because you do it every time, the dog learns not to lunge. Period. If the dog wants to greet another dog, it learns that lunging only gets it corrected and turned away. 

However, being calm means it is allowed to approach, so it will change its behavior for that reward. You have to be firm and consistent, and with a hard-headed shepherd it sometimes takes a prong collar to make your communication crystal clear.

Liesl is now 10 months old and has backtracked a bit on this. It is totally my fault as I have allowed her too much "head" (as the horse trainers say). She's about to go to Bill's Remedial School of Dog Greeting, and I expect her to earn perfect marks.


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## vhowell7

> I'm not sure if this is helpful or not, but something we are trying with Jack (who also starts barking and lunging when he gets close to other dogs) is that when they are father enough away we put him in a sit-stay and watch the other dogs pass by.


This is what I do, and after a few times of the sit/stay then she doesn't lunge at the next dog.


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## TheVintageAngel

Having this problem with Jemma but I believe she is too young for a prong collar. May I ask when a safe age is to introduce the pup to the prong?


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## katdog5911

Glad Stella is not the only one lunging and barking....she terrifies people. At 6 months old I know she is a puppy but try telling that to the owners of the other dog!! Nothing distracts her either....food, crazy noises, a touch....nothing. It is so hard to control her when she is like this. I am lucky my arms haven't left my sockets yet. I am very interested to see if there are any good solutions to this.


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## chelle

TheVintageAngel said:


> Having this problem with Jemma but I believe she is too young for a prong collar. May I ask when a safe age is to introduce the pup to the prong?


It is often said here that six months is the minimum recommended age. I think we were using it just shy of that. But do research the fitting and usage before throwing it on there. (I had a bad experience early on ... long story ... so I backtracked and didn't try again until I had more information, confidence and then our Obedience class trainer helped, too.)


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## Anthony8858

chelle said:


> It is often said here that six months is the minimum recommended age. I think we were using it just shy of that. But do research the fitting and usage before throwing it on there. (I had a bad experience early on ... long story ... so I backtracked and didn't try again until I had more information, confidence and then our Obedience class trainer helped, too.)


Kira is 6 months + 1 week. I've been using the prong collar sporadically for about 2 weeks. 

I feel that if you use the collar properly, you should have no concerns. I've only had to do some gentle corrections, and Kira immediately figured out that she didn't like the feel of the collar. Her pulling stopped, and never came back. If she attempts to pull, a very slight quick snap of the collar ends her intentions immediately.
The collar has allowed me to train her to heel, and to stay at my side on walks.
It's also aided me in correcting any potential lunging at other dogs, and the desire to do anything spontaneously, when she sees other people or dogs walk by.
A simply, yet effective snap (as a reminder) is all it takes to snap her out of it.

I am 100% in favor of the collar.. BUT you MUST first learn to properly use it.


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## TheVintageAngel

Thank you! I have a couple months before I can use it so I'll educate myself on how to use it safely and correctly in the mean time.


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## amaris

Sorry to revive this thread but Munich is almost 10 mths old and he goes wild when he sees other dogs, i know that when we're about 80-100m away, he's fine...we can still control him, there's lunging but we can turn him around and distract him by running in the other direction.

Will be trying the prong and attempt the minor turnabouts/corrections this week when i'm off for Reading Break. Anymore advice? 

He has almost dragged me into oncoming traffic once and ran me into a lamppost...so this behavior HAS to stop. Outside of the posts above...any more help anyone can give?


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## marshies

amaris said:


> Sorry to revive this thread but Munich is almost 10 mths old and he goes wild when he sees other dogs, i know that when we're about 80-100m away, he's fine...we can still control him, there's lunging but we can turn him around and distract him by running in the other direction.
> 
> Will be trying the prong and attempt the minor turnabouts/corrections this week when i'm off for Reading Break. Anymore advice?
> 
> He has almost dragged me into oncoming traffic once and ran me into a lamppost...so this behavior HAS to stop. Outside of the posts above...any more help anyone can give?


Get a trainer to help you through it.

I tried a Prong with Amaretto to correct biting, and while she stopped biting, I can see her frustration at getting corrected. This will lead to problems further down the road, I am sure. I just contacted a trainer and will be going back to training with flat.


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## katdog5911

Stella is 8 months now and we are still working on the lunging/barking. It is lessening to a degree. I started her in advanced obedience last week and this is something that they work on extensively. It was very different from the other classes....smaller room....closer and more dogs! Stella was quite excited at first but by the end of the class I was able to walk up to another handler and dog, have Stella sit, shake hands with the other handler and continue walking. Now to transfer than behavior to the real world!


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## jae

I must revive this thread, as well. My boy has had this behavior on/off, and it's very annoying. It doesn't matter whether he's exhausted or fresh, but he will head face first to another dog if he feels like it. Like yours, it's all about play; all he wants to do is play, and if the other dogs consent, then game on. If they react, he just goes right back in their face - that to me is the real problem.

I can get him in a sit or down no problem, but when I "ok" him, he just HEADS RIGHT IN like he has no time to lose. He never does bark, sometimes whines if we are just sitting there, and I can lead him past another dog if I am walking by; he will just glance over. It's when we meet other dogs and stop to quick chat that he usually has the issue.

Does this warrant a prong/pinch? He currently is on a martingale, and we are working on leash pressure and stays, per trainers advice; but I don't know if I am doing it correctly, he still is full-on choke when he's excited or he feels like it; other times is PERFECT loose leash walking.

Funny thing is, sometimes if another dog does rush up to him, he will cower, ears back, tries to run away, the whole shebang. Again, like yours, he is never the aggressor, and has never even attempted aggression. I'm kind of at a loss, and we haven't worked on this in class just yet. I don't think we will, based on curriculum...



summerronk said:


> Happy to report that problem is largely solved. It is all about control over the dog. If anyone is interested, let me know and I can post what the solution is. Be aware, my dog was not aggressive, but would look aggressive because she wanted access to that other dog to play. I am not sure whether my solution would work for a dog that is genuinely aggressive or not a puppy.
> 
> Basically, it came down to using a pinch/prong collar, and being under complete control of my dog during the entire walk. The dog is never allowed to walk in front of me. If she does so, she is walked backwards until she is behind me. And then I proceed to walk forward again. This simple technique is WAY better than any other correction. It is so simple yet works so well.
> 
> When you assert this heightened level of leadership over the dog, passing other dogs becomes almost a non-problem. My dog will still get interested, but she knows the rules so she does not lunge anymore or make any noise whatsoever.
> 
> Now, if I decided I wanted to actually meet that dog, I would walk past the dog, and then circle back so that the meeting is more face to rear rather than face to face. That way I can reach the other dog without a lunge taking place, and then the greeting is totally normal because it is on calm terms.
> 
> Also, at least with my dog, the pinch/prong collar is WAY MORE successful than the slip/choke collar. I am not speaking against slip/choke collars. But, for my dog at least, she is MUCH MORE responsive to the prong collar.
> 
> If anyone has any questions, I'd be happy to help!


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## blackmeadow

I'm late to the party, but I thought I'd offer my solution and see if it's a valid idea. Would it be useful to shorten the leash or grab the collar, get the pup/dog into a sit and let the other dog approach first? It sounds to me like they need some sort of calming "trick" (I think someone called it "capping" somewhere?), something that lets them know that they need to wind down.

I'm sure grabbing the collar and holding them into a "sit" wouldn't be good long-term, but maybe it'd help them start to learn to calm down?


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