# German showline dogs with working ability



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Dear All,
I am again in need of advice from you all. I was looking for working gsd breeders in India. I almost got into the trap of one suspicious breeder. But many thanks to all the boarders whose valuable suggestions help me to make an informed decision in time.

Now I have located a very well respected show line gsd breeder, kennel dogmatrix in Pune India. He has some SchH titled males which are from the following bloodlines.


1. Quando Nordland zwinger, 2. Ursus Batu, 3. Don di Casa Nobili

4. Lex del isola del Baroni 5. Enco Johannesberg 6. Shanto Xano

The above dogs are sires of his males. There are other lines also. 
Males 2005 - 2001

Can the esteemed boarders pls recommend any particular lines from the above which is likely to give high drives?

I am in talk with him. So suggestions will really help.

Best

Santanu


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Hi,

We have a board member who is very knowledgeable about west german showlines who also values showlines with good working ability. She can help you sort out what the different lines bring to the table.

Go the her website and send her an email from there she can help you.

She does train and travel a lot so it may take a little while for her to get back to you.

Good luck, with time I know you will find the right puppy for you and thank you for supporting breeders who value working ability in their dogs. 


Contact - NADAR K9


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Good looking German 'showline' type dogs. Would they let you talk to past puppy owners about their experiences with the dogs over the years?


----------



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Sorry, nope. In fact, they have not updated their website till now (i checked last evening) for quite some time. Eg. the pup i am interested, born to a Schh2 and KKL1 sire, there are No pics of the dam or sire or the pup itself on their website. All verbal info. I think they are so well known in Indian show circle, that they need not bother about updating their websites. I donot know whether good or bad. I have requested them for the pics.

Best
Santanu


----------



## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

Do you plan on working the dog?
What are your plans with the dog?


----------



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

I want to have a gsd that can be shown (it need not be a seiger type champion) but MUST have the working ability to do basic protection training.

Best
SD


----------



## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

I think the truth about people that post things like this(please don't take any offense at all) is that you don't have the knowledge or experience to own or train a PP dog.
Owning a personal protection dog, you would need to start off with a working line dog for your best chance, raise it perfectly, spend hundreds of hours a month for the first few years. 
It's not something that takes s few months to achieve. It's a commitment for the lifetime of the dog. 
Are you willing to spend the time and money on this?
Are you willing to have your life revolve around your dog?
Or are you just looking for a dog that is naturally protective that will bark and alert? 
If so a german showline will do this. 

Owning a high drive working german shepherd is not something some everyone should have.


----------



## zetti (May 11, 2014)

I think it's important to define our terms.

If by personal protection dog, you mean a dog who will bark at strangers who come to your door, any GSD worthy of the name will do that naturally.

If you mean bite work, then you do have to start out with the right genetics & an EXPERT trainer. You have to spend years becoming an expert handler & accept the liability of owning a bite trained dog.

A working line dog isn't automatically disqualified from a pet home. A well bred WL has an off switch & can settle just fine in the house. They need training, but so do all GSDs. My best housedogs have been WLs.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"but MUST have the working ability to do basic protection training."

I think TEZPUR means schutzhund , sport training.


----------



## zetti (May 11, 2014)

carmspack said:


> "but MUST have the working ability to do basic protection training."
> 
> I think TEZPUR means schutzhund , sport training.


Ohhh. That's quite different than personal protection.

He still needs the right genetic stuff which can be found among the WGSLs as well as the WLs.


----------



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Dear all,
I under stand all that the genetic requirement for protection work. That is why i started to look for working line gsd breeders in India. I will be happy if u could locate one such breeder in India.

The working line gsd breeding is really at shambles in my country (which pains me deeply).
I think a good question is who is a genuine protection/working line breeder?

Is any rich guy who just imports Schh titled dogs from Germany or Chez republic qualifies as a working line breeder?

Or is it a person who has actually participated and trained in pp work or IPO type sports, has raised and won such titles with his dogs is suited to be called a working line gsd breeder?

I am sorry in India there a few people (with very attractive websites) who import second grade dogs from Europe throgh agents and breed them left and right.

Do you expect me to spend my money to support such people?

As far my commitment is concerned. I have a named Duke. Please have a look at my training vids with him, which have posted in the forum on basic training. Eg please look at "tug of war with Duke" oe Dance with Duke.

Dear friends i live a place where people Claim to complete protection training in ONE MONTH package in their website. Do u have such magicians in US or Europe?


----------



## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

Anyone who can train a sch1 with good scores is lying. I have seen your videos. Your pup is certainly doing well for its age, however where you are and where you plan to be Is a whole other ball game. 
You can't train a sch or a op dog yourself. You will need to join a club, do you know of any around?
Over here we use the owner, a handler, a trainer watching and guiding both the handler and the owner and the guider usually has a distraction with him (toy or dog).

My advice is buy s pup who comes from good lines. Who's parents have a solid temperament and nerve. 

Also do you have plans to train your current dog in any man work?


----------



## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

In the first sentence of my last post j meant in 1 month sorry.


----------



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

I do not have any schh/ipo ambition as of now. My dog should be a part of my home defense system, along with cc TV, paper spray and good door locks etc. 

I want that my dog can react and put up a fight if challenged by an intruder and that he/she should not accept food from unknown person.


Some senior boarder's told me in other post that even to achieve the above target right genetics is required which can be found in Schh/IPO breeding lines. That's why all the research


----------



## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

A solid well bread german shepherd "should" be protective by nature and stand strong and defend at least in its own home.

Then again a lot of show dogs and sport dogs don't have the aggression necessary to identify a threat. And others that will identify threat will run rather than fight. Very few dogs don't fall in those categories and Sadly even the best pedigree cant guarantee you that they won't.

Not allowing your dog to accept food is easily done in training.


----------



## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

This is something my trainer told me. If someone really has the intention to rob your house, no amount of CCTVs or aggressive dogs will stop them. Also schutzhund dogs aren't naturally protective and only bite sleeves and body armor and can't be considered protection dogs. Real protection dogs are born genetically, regardless of training.

If you just want to stop some punks from toilet papering your house, just a loud and yappy GSD will do. Else if you have a robbery problem, the best solution is to hire guards or move into a safer neighbourhood.


----------



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Thanks d4mm0,
Again this discussion seems to be reaching to following important conclusions

1. Sprots (as such as ipo/Schh) triaining and real life protection training are different.

2. Pedigree cant guarantee that a gsd will stand tall to real threat.

If these are what u mean it saves much money and time that i would have otherwise wasted going after lucrative pedigree and top breeders in my country.

Instead i will just focus on raising my Duke well. He seems to be very alert and yes barks only to suspicious movements/people 

Best
Santanu


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Do your police departments have K9s? If they do, try to contact them and see where they get their dogs.

This subject is too convoluted to cover over posts. Most people have very varying opinions on this, and many just repeat what they have been told and have never seen it themselves.

Your resources are more than likely very limited. I would probably rather go with the "second rate" WL rather than a SL in this situation, but that's not true for all dogs. Unless someone with experience watches the dogs you have in question, no one can say for sure if they'll do it or not. So basically the advice to not get a SL is based on statistics and what people have personally seen. But there are SL out there capable of real work. They are hard to find, even here, so I doubt you'll find one in India.

If this is a really important piece of your protection, I'd be making contact with the police department and finding out their breeder/importer.


----------

