# Unsure about senior cat



## Bridget

Seems like I would go to a cat forum for this, but I get more thoughtful and intelligent answers from you guys. My oldest cat, Snowball, is 16 1/2 years old. Her health has been going downhill, but she has been enthusiastic about her meals. Until this morning. I think it may be her teeth because for the last two nights, she wasn't interested in the dry food I give her at night, but was still avidly eating her canned. This morning she wouldn't even get up to investigate the canned and when I gave her a treat, she picked it up in her mouth several times, but kept spitting it out. My feeling about Snowball is that I want her to have quality in what is left of her life, but it isn't my goal to keep her with me forever, if that makes sense. I take her to the vet if she seems to be in discomfort or pain, but not for every little thing, as it stresses her. I figure I will wait and see if she eats at lunch time and tonight and then if not take her tomorrow. I think if it is her teeth as I suspect, I will not put her through extensive dental work at her age. If a simple fix or pain meds can't take care of it, I will probably have her put to sleep. Am I right about this and thinking straight?? It's funny the past couple months Snowball and Heidi have made their peace with each other; Snowball became an upstairs cat, instead of staying in the basement and Heidi stopped chasing her!


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## wolfstraum

Bad teeth can be a major health problem for an older cat! My 18 year old Bengal had her teeth cleaned/pulled last fall...she can still eat dry if it appeals to her, Earthborn seems to be a hit! She also eats wet mostly....

I was ready to put down an apx. 15 year old former feral I captured and adopted.....the vet did a major cleaning on her and she lived about 4 more years....

Get the cat in for bloodwork and schedule a dental.....would be my advice.

Lee


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

And keep in mind that cats can't go without eating for long, like dogs sort of can. They will develop hepatic lipidosis and then you've got a lot more to work on. 

Try some baby food and see how that goes and I would also consider what Lee is saying on top of that.


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## clearcreekranch

I am not a fan of Science Diet, but the vets have a critical care formula that looks like liver pate. I was going to put my 17 year old cat to sleep a few months ago because he quit eating on a Fri, so I took him in on Mon. I signed the paperwork and everything, she came with the shot and I asked her if there was anything else I could do so she gave us antibiotics, I used a humidifier and fed him the food. 

He had refused everything but started to gobble this up within a couple of hours.

So my advice is to try to find out what is going on and get some of the Science Diet Critical care food.

Oh, and he is still around!


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## Bridget

Thanks. Maybe I'm being too negative. When they get this old, I tend to think of every little thing as "the end." My husband reminded me that even old cats can catch some bug that isn't a big deal. I think if she doesn't eat her lunch, two meals missed, I will call the vet and get her in as soon as they can do it.


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## kiya

One of my cats is 18 now I worry about him all the time. Maybe your cat has an abscess in her mouth. I hope she feels better soon.


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## Bridget

Thank you. I do worry about Snowball. When I fed her her lunch, she went right to her bowl and lapped, but only drank the juice and left most of the meat. I am still thinking teeth. But then I gave her a little milk, which she always liked, and she sniffed it and walked away. She doesn't seem to be in discomfort. I am still trying to decide whether to try to get her in at the vet today or wait till tomorrow.


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## JakodaCD OA

I just lost my 18 year old kitty, (I also have her sister who is in fine shape

I would take her to the vet, it could be something as simple as a hairball Or at this age, it could be diabetes, kidney failure, etc.

Atleast the vet can give you an idea of what's going on, Mine wasn't in discomfort either, but she was definately heading that way


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## Bridget

I decided to take the middle of the road approach and have my husband offer Snowball food again when he got home from work, as he gets home earlier than I do. He did and he called to tell me she ate it right away! That was really her only symptom of illness, so I guess for now everything is ok. Thanks.


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## wolfstraum

Jean had a good suggestion with baby food....get turkey or chicken baby food - BUT!! very important !!!! look at the ingredients - make sure there is no onion powder in it....

At her age, I would take her in for a check up and blood work....renal failure is what gets the older cats usually....if you get some values now, and get the teeth checked, you may have her a few more years....I was really afraid to take Kinu (my Bengal) in at 18 for a dental - but she came through with flying colors...yes, at 18.5 she is a bit more frail, and sleeps alot...but she is not showing any signs of anything critical at all...a friend who feeds raw has a nearly 23 year old cat who has never needed a dental and still has all its' teeth pretty much.

Good luck!!! Hope she is just being picky!

Lee


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## stealthq

Yes, definitely take her to the vet. I probably would even if she does start eating again. If it were me, and your cat is otherwise healthy I'd try the dental cleaning if it's needed. More than likely she'd come through it fine and get another lease on life. If not, well, to me dying during a dental probably isn't much worse for the cat then getting put to sleep which you'd have to do soon if her teeth are bad enough that she stops eating.

Another option you might try for the future - there are vets around me that will do dentals on cats without anesthetic. Some will even come to your house. Maybe you can find one in your area? Obviously, it depends on the willingness of the cat, but I've had success with it. My two get their teeth taken care of every 6 mos so tarter doesn't build up to the point where they need the 'full Monty'. It's been a blessing for me because one of mine has genetically bad teeth - he's needed scaling twice already and he's only a year old. The other is 13 and I'd rather not have her put under if there's any way I can possibly avoid it.


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## Bridget

Yes, I know my vet doesn't like to put old cats under unless absolutely necessary.

By the time I got home from work yesterday, Snowball had thrown up the food my husband gave her. I was up in the middle of the night and gave her some and she did eat most of that, but this morning didn't eat again. I have an appt. with the vet for her this morning and will update afterward.


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## JeffM

Our 18 yr old cat was picky at eating and thought teeth might be reason why. Vet cleaned them and said everything was fine for his age. 

We fed him hard and wet, but add water to his wet so he can kinda drink it.

We had to put his brother down several years ago because of a condition. We knew it was time when he refused to eat anymore.


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## Bridget

Took Snowball to the vet. The vet said her teeth actually look pretty good for her age. They did a blood panel and everything was fine, except she is a little dehydrated. The vet said that could possibly make her nauseated and not want to eat. They gave her fluids under her skin and she should start to feel better in 24 hours. They also tested for hyperthyroidism and we won't get the results till possibly Monday, so I guess we will go from there. I didn't ask the treatment for hyperthroidism, figured I would wait till we find out if that is the problem to digest that. In the meantime, we should try a variety of foods and feed her whatever she will eat.


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## stealthq

I'm really glad to hear that. If she has hyperthyroidism, it isn't too difficult to manage. She'll need to take daily medication and have regular blood tests to make sure she's getting the right dose, but that's it. Once it's under control, you shouldn't be able to tell that anything is wrong with her. If she were younger, she could likely be cured, but that's water under the bridge.


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## wolfstraum

That is good news!!! I recently switched from Orijin to Earthborn dry cat food, and both my cats really like the Earthborn....Kinu won't eat many of the higher end canned foods, only wants the "pate" texture - no slices or gravy and bits....

Still keep an eye on her, using baby food and adding a bit of water to it is a good treat and will help hydrate her as well...

Lee


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## Bridget

Here is where we are: The fluids took the expected 24 hours and then Snowball began eating on Saturday and on Sunday (yesterday) she was eating as much as I would give her and pretty much back to normal. I even felt embarrassed about putting this thread in this section. This morning the vet called and hyperthyroid test came back normal. We guess Snowball was just nauseated because she was dehydrated. Vet said this may begin to happen all the time and we can bring her in once or twice a week for the fluids or even do it ourselves at home. When I got home at lunch time, she is once again just laying there not getting up and won't eat. 

I do not think I am going to go with the fluids approach. My thoughts are of giving it a couple days of the best care we can give and if she is still sick, having her put to sleep. Here is my reasoning: This process seems like a synthetic way of keeping an animal alive past the time she should naturally go. It would be different if she was a young cat who could retain a reasonable quality of life this way, instead of an older cat whose health has been going downhill in other ways (blind, had several strokes, etc.). I would also feel differently if this was a curable condition in which we would do the treatments and then, with luck, she would be ok. Also Snowball is not one of those laid back accepting of anything pets and I think her temperament would make this process hard on her. She received approximately 24 hours of relief from the fluids and she would be sick one day for us to realize she needed to have it done, then it takes another day for the fluids to kick in, so Snowball would get one day of relief for every two sick days. Does anyone see where I am coming from or agree?


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## Bridget

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who doesn't agree too.


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## clearcreekranch

What did the vet say about her kidneys? Sounds like kidney failure to me. I had a 14 yo. cat that had cancer and kidney disease. The vets said that the kidney disease would kill him faster than the cancer. I did subcutaneous fluids for about 4 mos. It wasn't hard, but became very painful for both of us towards the end, emotionally for me and the cat. When he stopped eating, I put him to sleep a couple of days later, when he was just to weak to do much of anything but lay on the floor. My vet wrote a prescription and I got the fluids from a people pharmacy, cheaper than at the vet office, btw.


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## kiya

My cat Woffie had a few issues with FUS (feline urinary syndrome) and eventually his kidneys began to fail. Before I had to put him to sleep I also had to do fluids via IV. At first it wasn't too horrible, than he began to object and I started feeling bad about putting him thru it. Has the vet said anything about kidney failure? I don't remember how long I did the IV, a month or 2. I do not want my animals to suffer and as difficult as it is, sometimes we need to make the decission. I know when I look in their eyes, if that spark isn't there, if the familar habits & quirks are not there any more. I am going thru this with my 34 yr old horse right now. He is still eating, skinny as heck, but he still acts like himself and all his little behaviors are still present.


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## Bridget

I am sorry about your horse. Yes, it is difficult. You don't want to make the decision a moment too soon, nor wait too long. I have never had good timing.

The test they did came back negative for kidney problems. I was shocked, as I also felt sure that would be the thing. Or else the teeth, which are also ok. My husband said she's "just getting old." But you feel like you want to label exactly which body part/organ wore out, not just say she died of old age. On the other hand, maybe it doesn't really matter exactly what stopped functioning properly.

We will wait a while and see. Maybe try the food from the vet that has been recommended. At this point, she doesn't seem in intense pain or discomfort, just like she doesn't feel very good.


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## kiya

Bridget said:


> My husband said she's "just getting old."


And that is exactly what my husband is saying about my horse. Nothing is ever easy. I just wish for once one of my animals would go peacefully in their sleep, I guess thats too much to ask.


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## mriedel

Ive never had an animal that has had to be put to sleep so im not really the person to agree or disagree but what it comes down to is, you know your pet. You know its moods and temperament and how tough or weak it is so you should maybe spend some alone time with your cat and then make the decision of whether you know for sure that putting her down now is the best thing to do for you and the cat 
Extremely sorry your having to go through this I dont know if i would be equally as strong.


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## stealthq

I've had it both ways, specifically with giving fluids. 

First time was with a cat I'd had since I was six - I say this so you understand that I was beyond attached to this cat. He started with kidney problems when he was 13/14. I tried to give him sub-Q fluids myself, but just didn't have enough hands. My cat never objected or acted like my sticking him hurt him in any way. He'd just start walking off while I was trying to get the fluids started, the needle'd pop out, etc. So, I spent the money to have the vet give him fluids twice a week. He was skinny, his coat was shabby, and he slept more than before, but he cuddled up with me and purred, obviously still enjoyed napping in the sun and I figured that as long as he seemed to get some enjoyment out of life, it was worth it. He lived until he was one month shy of 19 when the kidneys got bad enough that he lost control of his bowels. That was the day he quit purring, and I had him put to sleep.

Second time was with a 2 yr old cat that had kidney failure due to a rampaging infection. He had always been a scaredy-cat, with everyone but me until I started giving him fluids myself. The stick did bother him - his skin had gotten tough from dehydration and it got to the point where he was always in hiding. I decided that was enough, it wasn't worth it to turn his life into ****. He was not a candidate for regular vet visits because he was so terrified that even the vets advised against it - they told me they were afraid he'd have a stroke. I stopped with the fluids and he turned back into his old sweet self, purring and snuggling again. I had him put to sleep at 4. He'd developed hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, a common complication of kidney failure, and could only walk a couple of steps at a time, he was so tired.

So, my point is that which route you go should really depend on your cat and you know her best. For me, if I see any quality of life remaining, I'll go the extra mile. But when that ends, and this is a HUGE judgement call, then I'll let them go and wonder forever if I should have done it sooner or later. I just don't think there's any way to be sure we get it just right.


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## stealthq

Actually, realized that I didn't answer you question directly. I see where you're coming from. If it were me, I'd try giving her the fluids regularly - I wouldn't wait for her to be sick before administering especially if she dehydrates that fast. You will need to watch that you don't give too much - googling over-hydration and feline should tell you what to watch out for. You'll figure out pretty quickly if it's something that she will tolerate. I'd let her response make my decision for me.

If you do decide to try the fluids, make sure you warm them (~100-102F is blood temp for a cat) before administering. Some cats actually like the feeling of the warm liquid.


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## wolfstraum

Probably have had 3 cats that had kidney failure and gave them fluids SubQ regularly - it was not that big a deal....also one of them was diabetic and had insulin every day for over 11 years....the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life was put that particular cat to sleep...other than my first horse, I don't think I have ever been as attached to any animal as Jeremiah.....

Personally, it is just not that big a deal to me - if the cat is happy and has quality time, I do whatever I need to that is doable. I have an 18.5 year old Bengal now that I am very very attached to...and if fluids a couple of times a week would make a difference, I would do it....

But only you know the quality of the cats life and your relationship to it.

Good luck.

Lee


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## stealthq

Apologies for the incessant posts, but I was driving home and it occurred to me,



Bridget said:


> health has been going downhill in other ways (blind, had several strokes, etc.).


This is a big red flag that your cat probably has high blood pressure. Unusual to see this combo of problems without it. If your cat also has kidney problems, it is an even greater likelihood. Getting the blood pressure under control won't fix any of the damage that's been done, but it should slow the decline dramatically. However, if you think she's too far gone already this means nothing.


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## Bridget

Thanks to everyone for going through this with me. By the time I got home from work last night, Snowball had perked up and was eating again and walking around. This is such a roller coaster ride. Maybe she just ate so much on Sunday that she made herself sick (?) Anyhow, I am hoping everything is ok for now. If she is sick again I will definitely check on the blood pressure. 

Lee, maybe the fluids thing isn't such a big deal then. I may have been overreacting with too much information too fast. My first cat, Black Magic, lived to be almost 19. I've lost several pets in my life, but nothing so far ever affected me like his death did.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Just caught up on this - I did shots for a diabetic cat too - it was either that or PTS and I just couldn't. He was the meanest cat (adopted as a senior) but was great for his shots. I have not yet had to do fluids with his sister, but she has had to go to the vet a few times for IV fluids - crisis - resolves. It can be a roller coaster even as we try to maintain a steady. Cats I think are much harder to take care of than dogs. My cat is not good at taking meds and so I guiltily let her dictate that part of her treatment. 

Good info on the BP!

I hope you all do well. If you want to read up on CRF there's Tanya's CRF site and there's another holisticat site as well.


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## Olivers mama

No one can tell you whether to proceed with SQ fluids or not, but here's my take anyway!

We stole a cat from my sister a few years ago, when she & her crazy BF decided it would be funny to give him meth. Bubba was about 8 @ the time. She had called our vet & told them we stole the cat & NOT to treat him if we brought him in. We all agreed to change his name so he could be treated:wild:. He eventually got hepatic lipidosis, which meant a feeding tube to his tummy (with a sassy t-shirt over the tube placement!) & SQ fluids. We did this almost 6 months. He wasn't even our cat - just a wonderful fuzzy critter we adored when we'd visit that sister. He finally got the feeder removed & no more fluids. To us, the treatments were no big deal. Didn't seem to bother him much either - almost like he knew we were trying to help. Almost 6 years later, I awoke 1 morning & found him - deceased - at the foot of the bed - he'd had a heart attack.

We've never been sorry about the time or money spent on behalf of Bubba. He had a good, quality life for 6 more years. And he's left a soft, fuzzy impression on us both. It was an honor to have been owned by Bubba. We miss him a lot.

So, if you decide to go for more diagnostics & treatments - go for it. You'll know when it's time. Best of Luck!


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## BowWowMeow

Chiming in late to encourage everyone not to give up on your cat because s/he stops eating. Cleo has stopped eating at least 10 times in the past 6 years and most of that has been in the past 2 years. She is almost 19 years old and is a total sweetheart, still very affectionate, alert and active. 

Cleo has CRF, survived a terrible bout of pancreatitis (I had to hand feed her for 2 weeks) and also has IBD. Lately she's had vertigo off and on. Not once has she ever indicated to me that she was ready to give up so I have hung in there with her through everything. I know that she will tell me when she's ready to go. 

She is not on regular SubQs now (and hasn't been for a while) but I have them here in case she needs them. When she does hit a rough spot I start SubQs again and continue with them as long as necessary.

I don't think any cat should eat dry food ever but older cats absolutely should not eat dry food. They need the extra hydration from canned food. 

Cleo does get a lot of extra care but I feel it's like living with a wonderful, wise old soul. She deserves the extra care and she appreciates it. :wub:


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