# Wife still doesn't really want a GSD...



## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

I've always wanted a dog as a kid. Now 32 with 2 kids (4 yo and 4 month old). She's not really a dog person. She has already said if we get one I have to do everything for the dog which is fine. Her main concern is if we get a puppy and as it gets older it'll bite our 2 young kids. I told her the puppy would be out of the crate when I'm around and eventually with training the dog wouldn't bite. Not to mention her mom and our neighbor who owns a lab have that misconception that a GSD isn't kid friendly...I've already told her I've done my research not to mention our son went to a Daycare that had a GSD which was an adult and she was great around kids. She's just all worried about the pup and how it'll be around the kids. Suggestions?


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Here's the thing, you'll be fighting an uphill battle if she isn't a dog person and doesn't want a dog I love my German Shepherds and they both been fine with my granddaughter but either my husband or I were home pretty much 24-7 when they were young. I would either get a little older pup or a 2-3 year old dog, and not necessarily a German Shepherd. You're young and have so much time later to devote time and energy to a German Shepherd puppy. Maybe find a breed that is more laid back, and easier to care for and raise. Nothing is worse than bringing home a puppy and having to rehome her later when it doesn't work out.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Yeah the last thing I'd want happening is to rehome the pup especially after spending a good amount on the dog from a good breeder. I just feel kinda blah with how she feels about a GSD. I know I'd crate the dog at night and when at work until it gets older. Once it got to the biting stage I would try putting him in the crate for a minute or so then back out and if another bite then back again. Anyone here own a puppy and have young kids?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

No bites yet, but I work diligently to ensure my daughter is safe first. And she's learning how to be with dogs. So it can be done


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

The biting stage may start as soon as your pup hits the door, or it may be a week or two later. Having the pup crated all day when you are at work will probably only ramp him up to be more excited and out of control when you get home. Our dogs were with my granddaughter several days a week, but one of us were always there. Crated only for naps and at night, outside frequently for exercise and playtime. (Our oldest shepherd is the same age as my granddaughter)


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

I personally wouldn't do it. I have a pup 9 months old, he loves kids and people but when my 4 year old nephew comes over it's the most annoying situation ever. They both work each other up. My nephew gets the pup going and they constantly run through the house (I tell my nephew no running and he ignores me. His parents don't care either) , I'll put the pup in his spot but my nephew found out by saying the magic word the pup can leave his spot. It's really frustrating and more of a problem with the parents because they let their kid run around the house and act wild... a puppy just feeds off this energy. I had 5 minutes of this and I was DONE. Kids need to be calm around pups indoors and honestly I feel like that isn't letting kids have much of a childhood if they are not kids that are mature for their age. If they are mature then by all means do it, they will grow up together and love each other. But if your kid is the rumbunctious type expect lots of herding which could quickly escalate if not closely monitored and constant interference. Personally my husband says he will "do" things but never gets around to it. Do you help out a lot around the house and mean what you say? Would you pick up the poop and put in all that time? If you work most of the day a young puppy needs to be let out of the crate to potty, somehow that has to happen.. would that be your wife? I agree that an older dog would be better. My old dog who just passed away was a completely different story with this same nephew. Calm, relaxed, and he occasionally snuck the veggies off my nephews plate that he didn't want lol. My husband also never had a dog, wasn't super fond of animals but I said I would take on full responsibility of the puppy. Puppy came home and had diarrhea for 8 months of his life, every night diarrhea and 3 flights of stairs... guess who was carrying a 40 lb diarrheaing puppy down the stairs all throughout the night every single night? Not my husband, not once. It put a huge burden on our relationship, and financially as well. If you spouse isn't fond of animals changing your style of living due to a medical expense is a lot to ask. Whatever you choose make sure it is a healthy dog first and foremost.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

My 4 yo son has been around a few dogs due to family members and his friends having dogs so he's use to dogs a bit. I've talked to a few breeders about crating the puppy while at work and some are fine with it while others have said that can be a long time for a puppy. But people work for a living and do own pups. I could possibly come home for lunch and let the dog out for a bit and feed it lunch.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

AE316 said:


> My 4 yo son has been around a few dogs due to family members and his friends having dogs so he's use to dogs a bit. I've talked to a few breeders about crating the puppy while at work and some are fine with it while others have said that can be a long time for a puppy. But people work for a living and do own pups. I could possibly come home for lunch and let the dog out for a bit and feed it lunch.


At 8 weeks old I would find it cruel to leave a puppy in a crate an entire work day. Coming home during a lunch break is very necessary. I think it is one of those situations where it really depends on the kid and the dog. Again an older dog is a great idea. Sometimes wish I went that route myself... puppy hood is rough!


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

It absolutely can be done. But...

GSDs are not really good choices for most first time dog owners. They are a lot of "dog". They are more prone to issues like aggression, prey issues, high drive and high energy issues than other breeds. Stuff that is easier to take on with a little experience.

I take it your family dynamic is set up where you are working full time and wifey is home with the kids? 

If so... no matter how much she says you are going to be fully responsible... in practice your wife will be spending a great deal of time interacting with this dog.



> I know I'd crate the dog at night and when at work until it gets older.


 young puppies need to potty every 2-3 hours.

Is it realistic for your kids to ignore the puppy in the crate while you are working or are they going to want to play with the dog? Is it fair to a puppy to be locked away every day while its family is home and playing without him? Do you really have enough time after work to devote to kids, house upkeep, wife AND a puppy?

This whole thing is going to be much much smoother if wifey is on board and picking a breed she is more comfortable with would be a good start it getting that to happen. Some people are a bit intimidated by their size but I always recommend Newfoundlands for families with young kids. They are low energy, easy to train, sturdy, and incredibly sweet natured and kid friendly. Seriously, "sweetness" is part of their breed standard. i have never met one that wasn't friendly or didn't love kids.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Right now I do most of the house work too. Come home from work cook dinner and wash dishes also bath the oldest son and read him a book and help brush his teeth. It's a lot of work. My wife gets busy with the 4 month old cause when he is awake he can be demanding attention. I enjoy cooking but she right now won't help with the dishes. I know if I got a pup I would get up at night and take the dog out. I use to get up with our oldest son when he was a baby. I don't do much getting up with the new baby because my wife is breast feeding him still than how much she did with the older boy. Yeah it's a lot of work. My 4 yo can be wild but he doesn't go running around the house wild unless we are playing and instigating it. He mainly watches tv does art work or plays with toys and I'm also spending time with him cause he likes that. I don't watch much tv so enjoy the moments with him. I just feel a dog would be another challenge in life but I can handle the work load.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Oldest son goes to school full day. Wife is home for now until next July or Aug. Then she'll be at work and the baby would start daycare. Argh...I just wish she'd be on board. She grew up with a few dogs a bit as a kid. If we got a puppy it'd be late next year or in 2019.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Time for a new wife







Totally kidding lol


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

AE316 said:


> Right now I do most of the house work too. Come home from work cook dinner and wash dishes also bath the oldest son and read him a book and help brush his teeth. It's a lot of work. My wife gets busy with the 4 month old cause when he is awake he can be demanding attention. I enjoy cooking but she right now won't help with the dishes. I know if I got a pup I would get up at night and take the dog out. I use to get up with our oldest son when he was a baby. I don't do much getting up with the new baby because my wife is breast feeding him still than how much she did with the older boy. Yeah it's a lot of work. My 4 yo can be wild but he doesn't go running around the house wild unless we are playing and instigating it. He mainly watches tv does art work or plays with toys and I'm also spending time with him cause he likes that. I don't watch much tv so enjoy the moments with him. I just feel a dog would be another challenge in life but I can handle the work load.


Wow just reading that made me exhausted... just remember a puppy is like another kid, getting into things it shouldn't, eating things it shouldn't, potty time, all that fun stuff. An infant with a pup seems risky to me as it as... and really annoying for a mother. You are exhausted from the baby and little puppies crate training generally bark and whine a lot at first. Seems like they would wake the baby up a lot with all their noise which would then get the baby crying... and really could upset your wife when you aren't home. I would personally wait to get a young pup until the kids are older maybe 6 years old or so? That is when my parents brought home our first puppy. I think only you really know the answer if you can handle it or not. Just like a child is a joint effort puppy care is too, your wife also has to live with it. The potty accidents, the whining and barking, the baby gates everywhere because puppies get into things.... And however much you think a puppy is going to cost in the first year I'd multiply that by about 10, all sorts of fun medical things can happen and leave you completely broke.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Having young kids and a pup really isn't that big of a deal. You just have to make sure your kids and pup have manners and some obedience. Both kids and dogs should have both of these whether the other is present or not. Your wife will need to be on board with getting a dog for it to work. If she is dead set against a German Shepherd then don't be afraid to post a pic of the puppy and your new bachelor pad. Crating a dog of any age for an 8 hour work day, then again for 6-8 hours of sleep time seems like a lot to me. Maybe some people do just that I wouldn't.
Take your wife to a couple German Shepherd breeders that has pups available. Puppy fever is a powerful thing.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Haha...I also do most of the cleaning on the weekend and laundry. Once the baby gets older and not as demanding she is going to help out with the chores again so it's not one sided. Gets frustrating at times doing most of the things around here. Her main concern is just the biting part. When I come home which is just before 4pm I'd let the dog out for potty then play with it too and let it be on a leash near me while cooking.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

AE316 said:


> Haha...I also do most of the cleaning on the weekend and laundry. Once the baby gets older and not as demanding she is going to help out with the chores again so it's not one sided. Gets frustrating at times doing most of the things around here. Her main concern is just the biting part. When I come home which is just before 4pm I'd let the dog out for potty then play with it too and let it be on a leash near me while cooking.


Biting varies with the pup... I've had a pup that hardly mouthed us at all and another that wouldn't stop no matter what and took him about 5 months to grow out of it... still have the scars to prove it. Imagine that kind of bite on a 4 year old, can your kid handle it? It isn't as simple as putting him in the crate when hes mouthy because when he comes back out if he is persistent he is right back to mouthing in a couple minutes. It takes constant redirecting and yelling OW all the time... Putting him on a leash near you while you cook in theory sounds so perfect and wonderful, but what do you do when he starts chewing the leash in half and getting antsy?


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

AE316 said:


> My 4 yo son has been around a few dogs due to family members and his friends having dogs so he's use to dogs a bit. I've talked to a few breeders about crating the puppy while at work and some are fine with it while others have said that can be a long time for a puppy. *But people work for a living and do own pups.* I could possibly come home for lunch and let the dog out for a bit and feed it lunch.


Yes, this is true... but how many working adults who successfully raise a puppy ALSO juggle the responsibilities of a young family?

Raising a puppy while being a working single person is a LOT different than raising a puppy in a family environment. 

I honestly just can not see a way that what you are planning of keeping the puppy crated all night and while you are at work and working the dog in the evening will be fair to your puppy, kids, or wife.

Is wife completely dead set against EVER being involved in puppy rearing? Or do you think once the kids are a little older she would be more willing to share the work load?


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

I'm going to call one breeder that's about 45 min drive from us and go for a visit to meet her 2 older dogs. That might convince the wife more. Also if we did get a puppy I'm sure the wife wouldn't just let it be in the crate for the most part while she was home and I wasn't. I can see why some people wouldn't prefer crating a dog 9 hours then more at night especially a GSD. I'd leave the crate door open at night once the dog became older. As for helping with the dog's energy level I'd spend an hour or more with it in the backyard. Right now I go to bed around 9 or 10pm...which I can push back to 11 then get up at 5. This way I spend time with the pup and give lots of potty breaks. I know it'll be like having another baby. We still have baby gates and I'd be careful with small toys around the house when the pup is out. As for the first few nights of the dog whining I might put the crate in the living room or basement and sleep there with the dog. We have a spare room down there.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

The puppy would need to be crated at night and while I'm at work when nobody is home. I leave after 7 and get back before 4. But as I said I could possibly come home at 12 for 40 mins. I'm about a 10 mins driveaway. As for night it'd depend on the puppy. Say 10 or 11pm until 5-6am. And weekends I am home so the puppy wouldn't be crated much during the daytime then. I don't think my wife is dead set at not helping at all. I'm sure in time she'll open up more too and get attached.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

AE316 said----- "Right now I do most of the house work too. Come home from work cook dinner and wash dishes also bath the oldest son and read him a book and help brush his teeth. It's a lot of work. My wife gets busy with the 4 month old cause when he is awake he can be demanding attention. I enjoy cooking but she right now won't help with the dishes.I also do most of the cleaning on the weekend and laundry." 

You AE316 are a lot nicer guy than I. I have 4 kids. A 4 month old isn't that big of a job where all other household duties are excused. Me work all day come home and do all the house work, cook, bath older kid who is in school all day so she isn't watching him until after school an hour or so before you get home. Plus spend my weekend cleaning. And then her tell me I can't get a puppy of my choosing. Not happening. Get your german shepherd AE316. she isn't gonna go anywhere no one else is gonna do everything cause she breast feeds.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

AE316 said:


> As for helping with the dog's energy level I'd spend an hour or more with it in the backyard.


This... may not be enough for a young german shepherd. 

They are high energy working breeds. Designed to go all day long.

To meet my mix lined GSD's basic needs he gets 20-30 minute fetch or flirt pole sessions in the back yard 3x daily PLUS 1-3 hour off leash nature hikes multiple times a week (atleast 3x), neighborhood walks on days without the hiking, and adventuring to go swimming or to the dog park here and there.

I think the most important part is the getting him out of the back yard aspect. The mental stimulation is an absolute MUST.

And this is just to make him livable - if he had it his way he could do much much more.

Is a GSD _really_ the right fit for your current lifestyle?


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

I'd eventually take the dog for walks and hikes. We have plenty of trails here...but I wouldn't work the pup that much until it's older and can handle hikes. I know the GSD my son's daycare provider owns doesn't go for hikes...so I guess it depends. 

As far as the 4 month old goes and my wife not doing much yeah it gets to me at times. Especially when I'm great at getting my work done and managing my time then I can watch some tv or spend time with the older son and I at times hear from my she wishes I would make my son's lunch ready for school the next day. That's when I put my foot down. Also so complains that she has to take the oldest to school and pick him up...I said well you are at home that is your motherly duty. If I could afford it I'd love to stay at home and walk him to school. She had the lazy attitude at times. It can be annoying. If I do get a GSD and she doesn't like it well too bad. I'm already busting my butt working then also at home. Wish I'd get more support at times...know what I mean?


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## PJay (Sep 18, 2017)

We have 4 children and we are bringing home our pup in 2 weeks. The kids are 2,3,8,9. I waited until the younger ones were potty trained and stable so that i can manage better with a puppy. I stay home with the kids so i also have a little more time. I agree that if your wife was on board it would be a bit easier but i also remember the stress of a new baby and nursing. Im not sure i would have been able to manage as well during those periods. I waited 5 years total to get a dog because our family life just didnt support it. You may have to wait. I know it sucks. Either way i hope you can work it out. Good luck.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

cdwoodcox said:


> You AE316 are a lot nicer guy than I. I have 4 kids. *A 4 month old isn't that big of a job where all other household duties are excused.* Me work all day come home and do all the house work, cook, bath older kid who is in school all day so she isn't watching him until after school an hour or so before you get home. Plus spend my weekend cleaning. And then her tell me I can't get a puppy of my choosing. Not happening. Get your german shepherd AE316. she isn't gonna go anywhere no one else is gonna do everything cause she breast feeds.


Sounds like it wasn't that big of a job for _your kids and your wife_ Does not mean that your experience with 4 month old kids can apply to every family situation.

For some women health issues accompanying the pregnancy, birth and breast feeding can definitely make tending to a 4 month old such a big job that they cannot do other household duties. Hormonal changes and breastfeeding schedules causing exhaustion, post partum depression, recovery from surgery if that was involved, etc etc. 

Also... just getting a puppy that someone is dead set against sounds like a recipe for a lovely dog to be dumped off at the pound in 6 months...


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## PJay (Sep 18, 2017)

Voodoolamb is spot on. There are a plethra of situations after having a baby that can make things not so simple. The hormonal shifts alone can knock some of the most stable women off their feet.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I just wanted to chime in because I have young children and babies. I think it is possible, not always easy, but do-able, if you and your whole family know what to expect and are truly committed. Only you know if you can handle it, and you should be honest with yourself. 

I think that there will be tension if your wife isn't agreeable to the idea of a GSD. Perhaps, you can visit a breeder, meet the dogs, and see how your wife and children feel about the idea of a puppy after the visit. 

We have two GSDs (3 years and 1.5 years old) and two children (2 years and 6 months). We are really busy, but we manage okay. We both work. I recently switched to part-time (2 twelve-hour shifts a week). However, I work weekend nights and my husband works weekdays, so someone is almost always home. I sacrifice other things I enjoy to have time for the dogs. And I did know what I was getting into, having had GSDs in the past.

Our GSDs are really good with the children, and my toddler is enamored with them. I still supervise dogs and kids when they are together, and I put the dogs outside or in other rooms when I want to keep dogs and kids separate. I timed it so that my children weren't mobile when the GSDs were in the biting stage, which kind of helped. Occasionally, the GSDs can knock the toddler over. It doesn't bother me because in our case it's usually just a bump, the dogs don't do it forcefully, purposely, or in a wildly out of control way, and the boy is back up again smiling and laughing in a second or two. This might bother some parents. 

If you and your wife decide to go ahead with this, please choose a good breeder who breeds dogs with stable temperaments (you can get recommendations on this forum). Also I'd invest in a year or two of obedience classes for a new puppy, or even hire a private trainer. Training is even more important when you have kids in the house, and when you're a first time GSD owner.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

She's borderline PPD. Had a c section. She does make time during the week to go out and talk with friends. First born was also c section. He slept good at night where ad this one is up every 1-2 hours after like 10 or 11pm. So her lack of sleep is getting to her. I got no problem getting up at night and giving the baby a bottle like I did with the first born but she still wants to breastfeed until he's like 6 months. Maybe seeing the breeder and the parent dogs might help change her mind.

She did mention the whining part and I told her that usually lasts a few days but I could also take the dog out of the bedroom with me until it settles. Been doing research and I know about some of the challenges. I think if her and I work together it'll work out with a GSD.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

voodoolamb said:


> cdwoodcox said:
> 
> 
> > You AE316 are a lot nicer guy than I. I have 4 kids. *A 4 month old isn't that big of a job where all other household duties are excused.* Me work all day come home and do all the house work, cook, bath older kid who is in school all day so she isn't watching him until after school an hour or so before you get home. Plus spend my weekend cleaning. And then her tell me I can't get a puppy of my choosing. Not happening. Get your german shepherd AE316. she isn't gonna go anywhere no one else is gonna do everything cause she breast feeds.
> ...


I agree there are situations where there MAY be an excuse. A short term excuse. But, OP mentioned none of those things. With my family I would go to work, come home and take the baby while wife finished supper, cleaned, tended to older kids, whatever else she had going on. After supper and kitchen was cleaned etc... I would encourage wife to take a nap until 9:30-10:00 or until I went to bed. Since she was up with baby at night it gave her some uninterrupted sleep. Honestly she liked the break from baby in the evenings. Weekends were a joint venture. And this was just my youngest kid. With my older two boys me and their mother divorced when they were one and three. I got full custody and raised them by myself while working full TIME. I was 23 they were 1 and 3. So I really don't have a lot of sympathy for the work involved raising kids and not working.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Yeah this one breeder seems good. I will be calling to visit. They breed once a year or other year. They don't kennel breed as some do who run a full time business. Plus they offer 36 month health guarantee and support too. Also are CKC reg. Am I allower to post their site for your guys input?


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

I have mentioned to her I could take the baby and feed him a bottle while she cooks cause he can take a bottle but she said as long as it's an easy dinner. Such as fries and hot dogs. Maybe she'll do the dishes I'd have to ask. She has mentioned in the past she dislikes to cook and clean dishes. Funny how that wasn't the case in the past. Personally I don't think the 2 kids are a challenge. She gets overwelmed easily it seems. She could nap from 7pm till like 11pm then I could go to bed. Maybe that'll help her lack of sleep...


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

AE316 said:


> I'd eventually take the dog for walks and hikes. We have plenty of trails here...but I wouldn't work the pup that much until it's older and can handle hikes. I know the GSD my son's daycare provider owns doesn't go for hikes...so I guess it depends.
> 
> As far as the 4 month old goes and my wife not doing much yeah it gets to me at times. Especially when I'm great at getting my work done and managing my time then I can watch some tv or spend time with the older son and I at times hear from my she wishes I would make my son's lunch ready for school the next day. That's when I put my foot down. Also so complains that she has to take the oldest to school and pick him up...I said well you are at home that is your motherly duty. If I could afford it I'd love to stay at home and walk him to school. She had the lazy attitude at times. It can be annoying. If I do get a GSD and she doesn't like it well too bad. I'm already busting my butt working then also at home. Wish I'd get more support at times...know what I mean?


You don't need a puppy right now. Get to a point where you don't already have all these conflicts before you add whats going to be gas on a fire. Motherly duty is going to come back to haunt you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GSDs good with kids?


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

AE316 said:


> She's borderline PPD. Had a c section. She does make time during the week to go out and talk with friends. First born was also c section. He slept good at night where ad this one is up every 1-2 hours after like 10 or 11pm.


Please consider waiting until your wife is in a better place before adding a puppy to the family. When she is feeling better, she may welcome a puppy. 

I sympathize with all you and she are going through. I know what it is like to desperately want a GSD. I waited 10+ years before I had house, yard, job, situation that I felt was appropriate for a GSD.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

cdwoodcox said:


> I agree there are situations where there MAY be an excuse. A short term excuse. But, OP mentioned none of those things.


Sometimes people do not like to discuss personal health matters... doesn't mean it is ok to assume stuff... Interestingly enough OP has come back and mentioned bordeline PPD AND continued sleep deprivation from the breast feeding schedule...

I'm happy that you successfully raised your kids on your own, but once again, your experience is not universal. You personally have never dealt with physical effects of pregnancy and breastfeeding. The stuff that happens to a woman's body and the effect that has on her is a highly individualized thing. For someone to blatantly say that something is not a big job when your body is revolting against you, as happens to some women, is hurtful.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

sebrench said:


> Please consider waiting until your wife is in a better place before adding a puppy to the family. When she is feeling better, she may welcome a puppy.


Yes. This. 1000x THIS.


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## melissa282 (Nov 8, 2017)

I know a family right now where the husband adopted a dog from the local shelter. The wife hates this dog, will have nothing to do with it. When he is at work, it is left on a leash in a backyard. One day, the leash got caught around its foot and he almost needed it amputated. His eldest daughter who is an adult told him he really should rehome the poor dog, that he was being selfish. She was right. It's been about 6 months now and he is finally realizing the mistake he has made. Just think, this dog could have been in a better, more loving household. I know my GSD was sensitive and if my husband didn't feel the same way I did about her, she would be a wreck. This dog he has is not trained because there is no consistency between the husband and wife. The dog is not getting properly trained because they wife wants nothing to do with the dog.

Families need to agree on having a pet in the home or it will be not fair to anyone.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Thanks for all the replies from everyone and their input. Last thing I would want is to rehome the dog. Deep down inside I do want a dog eventually preferably a GSD. No point in bringing one home if the wife is going to neglect the dog and/or not want much to do with it. It just kinda sucks in a sense that when we bought our first home about 2 years ago she wanted a cat. I'm not a big fan of cats, but I said whatever go ahead. Then in like a week or 2 she gave the cat away for free because it would come in our room at night and climb the dresser not to mention it nit picked the new leather couch which my wife had bought so that bugged her. 

Now just recently we got a guinea pig because someone was giving it away for free. And of course they aren't much work and we've owned one in the past prior to having kids. She had mentioned wanting to get one and I said sure why not. I just kinda find it annoying and upsetting how I compromise and am willing to work together on certain things and she's all down right against it. I'll sit down and talk to her about the whole dog thing again and if she really doesn't want one and is fully against then I won't bother. Yeah......


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

At the time my kids were two and four. Our gsd passed away. He was already trained and was a great dog. My husband wanted a gsd pup. I would be taking care of the dog 99% of the time - I knew this. With the kids I wanted to get a puppy to get use to lots of crazy noise and a influx of kids. I did not have any time for a gsd pup I knew that my focus and energy went all to the kids. I talked about when the kids were older it would be a better time. It was not easy the argument continued but we winded up getting a King Charles cavalier and she was the best fit at the time for our family amazing dog We all oved her to pieces but at the same time my focus was not on her as much as I knew it would not but it worked.later we got a chihuahua. After bella our kcc passed away we got max and the obsession with dogs I have always had started again. I have two german Shepherds?s now along with our chi. Growing up I can?t tell u when I was a little kid how many dogs my mom rehomed. It was heartbreaking. When grew older to help care for the dogs is when they did not disappear and stuck around. So important to be honest and get the dog best for your entire family at the time. If you like big dogs I like the Newfoundland suggestion they remind me of a mellow King Charles cavaliers but in a big body - my King Charles was super mellow.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I have only rehomed 1 dog in my lifetime. It was a lab that I bought when my second son was just born, and although my wife "seemed" to be on board with the idea, she really wasn't. The dog was not allowed in the house, and while I was at work she ignored the poor thing. Within a few months it began escaping the backyard (hardly it's fault), and was just plain miserable. Fortunately we knew a couple that just loved this dog, so we gave her to them and she lived a long and pampered life! My point being, if there is ANY hesitation on your wife's part, wait, you'll be glad you did! Focus instead on those kids, and spend extra time with them...again, you'll be glad you did!


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## Kibs (Oct 25, 2017)

AE316 said:


> Then in like a week or 2 she gave the cat away for free because it would come in our room at night and climb the dresser not to mention it nit picked the new leather couch which my wife had bought so that bugged her.


Now that to me is a red flag... If you really want a cat you should be aware of the problems they may cause. There are also ways to get a cat not to scratch on a leather couch (bad smelling sprays etc). No need to rehome it immediately. 
If she wanted one and gave THAT away for free I wouldn't get a dog and hope the wife helps taking care of it. You guys need to be on the same page and be fully aware of all the problems that can potentially arise and be set on working through them. There is no perfect dog out there, just like there is no perfect cat.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Yeah...she just seen someone was offering one for a decent price and wanted it. And I told her already that the cat could potentially scratch up our furniture especially the new couch prior to having the cat. Instead of researching a bit or even wanting to get a spray for the furniture she just decided to give it away for free. She said the cat wasn't well behaved...I forget how old it was, but it wasn't a kitten. I know a puppy especially a GSD would be a challenge based on the research I've been doing but I'm willing to deal with those challenges. Similar to having 2 kids we've been dealing with any potty accidents that can happen and so forth. I guess for now I'll put things on hold and if she is willing to work with me on this then I can take the next step in seeing a potential breeder. She did mentioned possibly waiting a bit until the kids are older like 6-8 so we'll see. Then again she thinks she may want a 3rd child and I kinda only want 2 so I gotta deal with that too when the time comes. The joys of married life!


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

AE316 said:


> Yeah...she just seen someone was offering one for a decent price and wanted it. And I told her already that the cat could potentially scratch up our furniture especially the new couch prior to having the cat. Instead of researching a bit or even wanting to get a spray for the furniture she just decided to give it away for free. She said the cat wasn't well behaved...I forget how old it was, but it wasn't a kitten. I know a puppy especially a GSD would be a challenge based on the research I've been doing but I'm willing to deal with those challenges. Similar to having 2 kids we've been dealing with any potty accidents that can happen and so forth. I guess for now I'll put things on hold and if she is willing to work with me on this then I can take the next step in seeing a potential breeder. She did mentioned possibly waiting a bit until the kids are older like 6-8 so we'll see. Then again she thinks she may want a 3rd child and I kinda only want 2 so I gotta deal with that too when the time comes. The joys of married life!


To be honest, seems like you need to figure other things out before you get a puppy. Marriage is not a he did this, she did that. It's a union of two people sharing each other's life. 
Imho you'd be better off telling her the things you are posting and working on that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So, if you are a dude, and the wife doesn't want a dog, then don't get a dog. 
But if you are a gal, and you husband doesn't want a dog, get the dog, he will get used to it. Probably in time, he will be more crazy about dogs than you are. If they are German Shepherd Dogs. 

Or, stay single, and you don't have to whine and weedle your mate until they give in and begrudgingly allow you to have what you want. 

12 years ago, my sister's boy friend said "No" to the GSD that she was going to get out of my first litter. Now he wants a dog. Actually for years he has wanted a dog. He wants something like a lab or a golden. My sister is refusing. The girls are in first and second grade now, and I think potty trained (she did not want to potty train kids and a puppy at the same time, and as hard as her eldest was to train, I can see her point.) 

My elder sister has the girls that I steal now and again. She adopted two girls. It is my job to teach them about dogs. My sister said that the girls can have a dog when they are 12, if they are responsible. The elder turned eleven last month, the younger will be eleven in January. So we have a good year to wait. She started them with beta fish, and then parakeets (they still have one), and then the guinea pig. We are waiting patiently, oh so patiently, for the dog thing to happen. My sister has two roommates that also have to be on board with a GSD though. They live with this Indian woman who is like, in competition with me, and keeps buying the kids everything before their mother or I can. I think I will be offended if they do not let the girls have a GSD though. 

It is scary to give a dog to a family member though. You have to make sure there are no strings attached when you let a dog go, even in your mind, but it is so hard to do when it's family. And, since they travel, I become the barking, swishing, chirping menagerie whenever they go circumnavigating the globe. Not sure if I will know how to take care of a Golden or a chi. The girls want a dog, and I have been teaching them since they were one or so, that a dog = a GSD.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

cloudpump said:


> To be honest, seems like you need to figure other things out before you get a puppy. Marriage is not a he did this, she did that. It's a union of two people sharing each other's life.
> Imho you'd be better off telling her the things you are posting and working on that.


This sums up a lot that I'm seeing in your posts too, and the fact that you've never raised a dog and you're focused on how you're going to overcome all the work with one? Where's the time for enjoyment with a puppy?Even if you both wanted one, I don't see it going real well.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Cloud pump- gave the best advise on this thread. 

Complaining about a spouse behind their back is a sign of poor communication which only leads trouble ahead. It sounds like you have much going on.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> I personally wouldn't do it. I have a pup 9 months old, he loves kids and people but when my 4 year old nephew comes over it's the most annoying situation ever. They both work each other up. My nephew gets the pup going and they constantly run through the house (I tell my nephew no running and he ignores me. His parents don't care either) , I'll put the pup in his spot but my nephew found out by saying the magic word the pup can leave his spot. It's really frustrating and more of a problem with the parents because they let their kid run around the house and act wild... a puppy just feeds off this energy. I had 5 minutes of this and I was DONE. Kids need to be calm around pups indoors and honestly I feel like that isn't letting kids have much of a childhood if they are not kids that are mature for their age. If they are mature then by all means do it, they will grow up together and love each other. But if your kid is the rumbunctious type expect lots of herding which could quickly escalate if not closely monitored and constant interference. Personally my husband says he will "do" things but never gets around to it. Do you help out a lot around the house and mean what you say? Would you pick up the poop and put in all that time? If you work most of the day a young puppy needs to be let out of the crate to potty, somehow that has to happen.. would that be your wife? I agree that an older dog would be better. My old dog who just passed away was a completely different story with this same nephew. Calm, relaxed, and he occasionally snuck the veggies off my nephews plate that he didn't want lol. My husband also never had a dog, wasn't super fond of animals but I said I would take on full responsibility of the puppy. Puppy came home and had diarrhea for 8 months of his life, every night diarrhea and 3 flights of stairs... guess who was carrying a 40 lb diarrheaing puppy down the stairs all throughout the night every single night? Not my husband, not once. It put a huge burden on our relationship, and financially as well. If you spouse isn't fond of animals changing your style of living due to a medical expense is a lot to ask. Whatever you choose make sure it is a healthy dog first and foremost.


Kids are kids! The dogs need to learn to deal with them. A 4 year old isn't ignoring you - he is being 4, and is forgetful and the urge to run everywhere is strong. And parents aren't going to make their 4yr old sit still for hours whilst visiting you because your dog has issues. Children come first, if your dog can't handle it then put your dog away or just go visit them at their house. 


To the OP - kids and puppies together are hard work, German Shepherd puppies are notorious for biting. My children bore the brunt of the land shark phase with as they were the ones who played with the puppy the most and aren't as quick at replacing an arm with a toy. A dog is a lot of work, and if you are spending a lot of your time with the dog instead of helping your wife out with the kids etc she might become even more resentful. Never mind all the hair and mess that dogs bring that your wife might not appreciate either. I wouldn't bring in a dog until everyone was on board with the idea.


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## egwinjr (Oct 30, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> To be honest, seems like you need to figure other things out before you get a puppy. Marriage is not a he did this, she did that. It's a union of two people sharing each other's life.
> Imho you'd be better off telling her the things you are posting and working on that.



this^^ id say you both have some stuff to work on before adding another variable to the mix. work together and get into a routine with the new baby and other kid first. revisit this in a few months once all is settled in and then maybe look to pick up an older pup like 6 months to a year old from a reputable breeder that has already had training fundamentals worked out. a puppy in general is a lot of work, a GSD puppy even more so, couple that with kids it could be the last straw for your wife from the sounds of it. 

also your guys current turn over rate with pets sounds bad as it is so id say maybe just stay away from any pets in general for now. Not everyone has what it takes or wants to have a pet let alone a dog in their house hold and that's ok. whats not ok is taking on pets, getting overwhelmed with them than dumping them off. its not fair to the pet so don't place yourself in a position where that could happen. until she really wants a dog around itll never fully be welcomed.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

KaiserAus said:


> Kids are kids! The dogs need to learn to deal with them. A 4 year old isn't ignoring you - he is being 4, and is forgetful and the urge to run everywhere is strong. And parents aren't going to make their 4yr old sit still for hours whilst visiting you because your dog has issues. Children come first, if your dog can't handle it then put your dog away or just go visit them at their house.
> 
> 
> To the OP - kids and puppies together are hard work, German Shepherd puppies are notorious for biting. My children bore the brunt of the land shark phase with as they were the ones who played with the puppy the most and aren't as quick at replacing an arm with a toy. A dog is a lot of work, and if you are spending a lot of your time with the dog instead of helping your wife out with the kids etc she might become even more resentful. Never mind all the hair and mess that dogs bring that your wife might not appreciate either. I wouldn't bring in a dog until everyone was on board with the idea.


My house my rules  , when I was a kid I was not allowed to run in the house or play ball in the house and I expect the same from my guests. Personally I don't have any children and don't plan on having any. It was also 9 pm at night when they came over, well past the childs bed time and he should have been settling down. Everyone was sitting quietly by the fireplace talking and having hot coco while they let their kid get into trouble. I think its a lack of good parenting now a days. If I cared yes I would put my dog up if he couldn't handle it, but he can handle it. He obeys his spot command and lays on his bed, the child just kept releasing him from his command. This child needed to be told not to mess with the puppy or play nicely or take it outdoors and run around. It obviously wasn't bothering the child being herding because he kept taking our dog and sneaking off with him lol. So again depends on the childrens personality and parenting.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

OP, I see the "mistakes" well-meaning people make all the time -- they come to me in rescue when they're no longer cute 10-week-olds. They're now 80# frustrated adolescents that no one had time to train (good intentions were there, but training is a constant, daily thing that owners didn't really have time for), or to exercise (a mile walk ain't gonna do it), or socialize (getting out and about to the right new environmental situations to build confidence every week takes constant planning, thinking and attention -- without dragging two toddlers). These dogs brought no joy to their families; they were just too much work. They're not bad dogs--just dogs who were just unfortunate to be in the wrong situation. 

I've also seen too many dogs lose homes because one partner never wanted it in the first place and never bonded. People become increasingly frustrated over time when this creature they wish weren't there stays underfoot, barks, and demands attention.

I've lost count of the number of well-meaning, nice young families with toddlers who gave up good, young dogs because it was just "too much" -- it's the most common owner-surrender scenario we see. They get awkward and clumsy during adolescence, knocking toddlers on their butts constantly -- some kids hate that. Some of them mouth for months and months, and kids are at their face level, smell good, and are about the size of a littermate, making them tempting playmates. They destroy the kids' favorite toys and shoes because they smell heavenly to a dog. Kids carry snacks in their hands and untrained dogs think they're offering a treat, snatching food while terrifying newbie parents who wrongly think the dog is going to bite the kid instead of just take the toast the kid is waving around. 

EVERYONE thinks they can do it during the adoption process. Raising your first GSD puppy is HARD--so much harder than anyone wants to believe!

Instead, IF AND ONLY IF YOUR WIFE ALSO WANTS A DOG, then I would suggest eventually looking for a calm, tolerant adult dog with a bomb-proof temperament who really likes kids. That's what we try to place in "young couple with toddlers, first family dog"-type homes in rescue, based on lots and lots of experience with what works: dogs that we know love hanging out with kids, enjoy the noise and rambunctiousness of normal kid play without getting over-excited, love watching over them, can be safely around other groups of kid friends, and go anywhere; dogs that don't get too amped up when a lot is going on. We aim to have the foster home put basic OB and house manners on them before sending them home, and get the owners signed up for their first obedience course to keep them on the right path. My goal is to set the young families up for success with the first dog, so that they'll want to come back to us again someday for their second dog. That works out so much better for most, and it helps them to fall in love with the breed without dealing with a demon-pup. If you don't want to rescue, ask a good breeder if they have an older, retired dog they need to place that would be a good family dog.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Once again thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. I know as much as I really want a GSD I now know it's not the right time or who knows even if I'll get one in the future thanks to you folks. You guys have been great with your input. My wife and I did talk about getting an older dog (not too old - maybe 2-3 yo?), but not sure if that'll happen any time soon or in the near future. This way the dog is already house trained and won't need that much work compared to a puppy especially a GSD. Personally I don't mind putting effort into a puppy, but she'd have to be on board with it for that to work out.

If and only if she is on board and when that time comes I'll check out local shelters. Our main concern with shelters is getting a dog that has tons of health issues then we'd be stuck with tons of vet bills. Yes the shelter dogs are cheaper in price compared to a well known breeder, but the cost being low can backfire with tons of health problems. I know that can still happen if we got a puppy from a good breeder, but we just think some shelter dogs could have health problems. Not sure if the law mentions they need to disclose any health problems? Magwart, any recommendations for a breed that you may think would be right fit for us? And also what age do you think should be good where the dog is well trained? We wouldn't want one that's really old. I don't wanna go with Newfoundland because I don't like all all that hair. If we were getting a GSD it'll be a short haired compared to long hair. Maybe a lab? I don't really want a lap dog I prefer something slightly bigger. My wife does like pugs, but I'm not that keen of them. 

As for talking with my wife about things that I have mentioned in the postings we have sat down and talked about things. Right now I'm fine with the workload I have taken on, but she's well aware that once the baby gets a bit older I want her to do more. I can take the baby and she could wash the dishes which she did do in the past. I realize marriage is a union not a matter of he/she said, but sometimes it can get frustrating, but we are working through it. Having kids in the mix changes it up as we can already tell.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

For an older dog as your first dog, I'd think along 4-5 years old. They're still physically able to do most anything, and they've settled into what they really are so you'll have an easier time knowing what you're getting. Personally, I think a female lab is good choice.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

AE316 said:


> Once again thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. I know as much as I really want a GSD I now know it's not the right time or who knows even if I'll get one in the future thanks to you folks. You guys have been great with your input. My wife and I did talk about getting an older dog (not too old - maybe 2-3 yo?), but not sure if that'll happen any time soon or in the near future. This way the dog is already house trained and won't need that much work compared to a puppy especially a GSD. Personally I don't mind putting effort into a puppy, but she'd have to be on board with it for that to work out.
> 
> If and only if she is on board and when that time comes I'll check out local shelters.* Our main concern with shelters is getting a dog that has tons of health issues then we'd be stuck with tons of vet bills. Yes the shelter dogs are cheaper in price compared to a well known breeder, but the cost being low can backfire with tons of health problems.* I know that can still happen if we got a puppy from a good breeder, but we just think some shelter dogs could have health problems. Not sure if the law mentions they need to disclose any health problems? Magwart, any recommendations for a breed that you may think would be right fit for us? And also what age do you think should be good where the dog is well trained? We wouldn't want one that's really old. I don't wanna go with Newfoundland because I don't like all all that hair. If we were getting a GSD it'll be a short haired compared to long hair. Maybe a lab? I don't really want a lap dog I prefer something slightly bigger. My wife does like pugs, but I'm not that keen of them.
> 
> As for talking with my wife about things that I have mentioned in the postings we have sat down and talked about things. Right now I'm fine with the workload I have taken on, but she's well aware that once the baby gets a bit older I want her to do more. I can take the baby and she could wash the dishes which she did do in the past. I realize marriage is a union not a matter of he/she said, but sometimes it can get frustrating, but we are working through it. Having kids in the mix changes it up as we can already tell.


Health is important, but temperament even more so. There are probably great dogs to had from shelters, but there are a lot of "unknowns". Reputable rescues would be a much safer option. The rescue will have dogs in experienced foster homes and can provide a wealth of information, not so much with shelters. Your kids safety is paramount, you need to know something of the dogs background before making a decision.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Yes it's the unknown that kinda makes us a bit weary of getting it from a shelter main reason why I went researching into good breeders to get a puppy. It had slipped my mind about foster homes which can help make a difference and get more info about the dog's behavior. I will consider that in mind going through a shelter that deals with foster parents if we do decide to get a dog. If something doesn't feel right then I'll go with the gut feeling and seek another foster family that meets what we are looking for.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

AE316 said:


> Yes it's the unknown that kinda makes us a bit weary of getting it from a shelter main reason why I went researching into good breeders to get a puppy. It had slipped my mind about foster homes which can help make a difference and get more info about the dog's behavior. I will consider that in mind going through a shelter that deals with foster parents if we do decide to get a dog. If something doesn't feel right then I'll go with the gut feeling and seek another foster family that meets what we are looking for.


Make sure if you go with a shelter that they have temperament tested their dogs and give you insight in the test report. Too many shelters are importing dogs form other states just to save lives. It is a huge problem in our area. As a pet dog trainer, I have seen too much misery that came out of these practices. Some rescues are now turning out to be 501 status hoarders, adopting out sick and aggressive dogs.


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

AE316 said:


> We wouldn't want one that's really old. I don't wanna go with Newfoundland because I don't like all all that hair. If we were getting a GSD it'll be a short haired compared to long hair. Maybe a lab? I don't really want a lap dog I prefer something slightly bigger. My wife does like pugs, but I'm not that keen of them.


There is a middle ground in terms of size. You're thinking of very big dogs vs very little dogs. Why not get a medium-sized dog (40-60 pounds) with short hair that's pretty smart, trainable, and good with children?

How about a smooth-coated Collie (Collie with short hair)? You'll get your herding breed fix, but have a dog that's much gentler and calmer in terms of temperament vs a GSD.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

AE316 said:


> Once again thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. I know as much as I really want a GSD I now know it's not the right time or who knows even if I'll get one in the future thanks to you folks. You guys have been great with your input. My wife and I did talk about getting an older dog (not too old - maybe 2-3 yo?), but not sure if that'll happen any time soon or in the near future. This way the dog is already house trained and won't need that much work compared to a puppy especially a GSD. Personally I don't mind putting effort into a puppy, but she'd have to be on board with it for that to work out.
> 
> If and only if she is on board and when that time comes I'll check out local shelters. Our main concern with shelters is getting a dog that has tons of health issues then we'd be stuck with tons of vet bills. *Yes the shelter dogs are cheaper in price compared to a well known breeder, but the cost being low can backfire with tons of health problems.* I know that can still happen if we got a puppy from a good breeder, but we just think some shelter dogs could have health problems. Not sure if the law mentions they need to disclose any health problems? Magwart, any recommendations for a breed that you may think would be right fit for us? And also what age do you think should be good where the dog is well trained? We wouldn't want one that's really old. I don't wanna go with Newfoundland because I don't like all all that hair. If we were getting a GSD it'll be a short haired compared to long hair. Maybe a lab? I don't really want a lap dog I prefer something slightly bigger. My wife does like pugs, but I'm not that keen of them.
> 
> As for talking with my wife about things that I have mentioned in the postings we have sat down and talked about things. Right now I'm fine with the workload I have taken on, but she's well aware that once the baby gets a bit older I want her to do more. I can take the baby and she could wash the dishes which she did do in the past. I realize marriage is a union not a matter of he/she said, but sometimes it can get frustrating, but we are working through it. Having kids in the mix changes it up as we can already tell.



This is just WRONG WRONG WRONG. Most shelter dogs are mixes which actually gives them the benefit of... yes HEALTH. We got a pure bred puppy from a breeder who has not a single negative review anywhere on the interwebs and a massive positive following of people who have adopted puppies from her over the course of something like 30 years. Our puppy came home DEATHLY ILL. He nearly died TWICE. Do not think going into this with a breeder puppy you will be free of health problems... At least with a shelter dog you don't pay 2K up front and you can put that towards medical issues if it does have any. Theres also a lot of pure bred german shepherd in shelters. Do a search on petfinder, fix the filters and broaden the search and you'll see.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Kyrielle said:


> How about a smooth-coated Collie (Collie with short hair)? You'll get your herding breed fix, but have a dog that's much gentler and calmer in terms of temperament vs a GSD.


You can't go wrong with a good Collie. They are sweet, active and very funny and creative.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

OP, most newbies are better off going through a good foster-based rescue rather than going straight to a shelter. Shelter adoptions are cheaper (they're usually tax-payer subsidized), but you usually get no post-adoption support, pre-adoption vetting can be sketchy, and all that's known about the dog is whatever it displayed in a shelter setting. There's a lot of unknowns. 

By contrast, good foster-based rescues (breed-specific or all-breed) have a family observe the dog in a home setting for weeks. They can see the dog with kids and get a much better idea of who the dog really is. They also have time to do more complete pre-adoption vetting at a private clinic with more resources than the shelter clinic typically has. They'll take your calls and texts after the adoption when you're asking for help too (and might even come back to offer post-adoption visits to trouble shoot any transition issues, if you ask). The adoption fee is higher, and the adoption qualification standards are stricter, but the chance of a successful match is a lot higher IMHO, esp. when there are young kids involved.

Heck, some of my friends secretly offer adopters free boarding for former foster dogs just to get to see them again after the adoption--an unadvertised perk, but for the adopters lucky enough to get it, it's pretty valuable. There's no guarantee you'll be offered this, but when foster families _really _like you and _really _like the dog they fostered, it can happen.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You made the right choice. I would not recommend a new dog owner get a dog with a baby in the house. I looked for breeders when my child really were very young and none would sell me a GSD puppy. We already had a dog, but they advised waiting until all children in the house were school age. It was good advice. I know many people here have had GSDs with babies, but every adult in the house needs to be on board and the adults need to have big dog or herding dog experience. Even better, GSD experience. 

I know you did not ask for marriage advice but if you have the opportunity, consider seeing a family therapist for a few sessions. Your problems don’t sound like deal breakers but your home life could be easier. 

Magwart is right, please if you do get a rescue, go to a GSD or other herding breed dedicated rescue group. Those dogs have been fostered, they might have a good history on the dog, and you will know what you are getting. A good owner who must give up a dog either sends back to the breeder or releases to a rescue group if they have no one to take it. Good dogs are not usually dumped in a shelter. It’s possible to find one, but most dogs that are given up to a shelter are either ill or untrained or have a temperament problem. Not all, most. Also a good rescue will not give you a dog you can’t handle. A shelter doesn’t care.

German Shepherds mature between 3-5 years. All of mine became visibly calmer and smoother sometimes between 3-5. For a first dog, with young children, consider adoption. But wait about 5 years.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> This is just WRONG WRONG WRONG. Most shelter dogs are mixes which actually gives them the benefit of... yes HEALTH. We got a pure bred puppy from a breeder who has not a single negative review anywhere on the interwebs and a massive positive following of people who have adopted puppies from her over the course of something like 30 years. Our puppy came home DEATHLY ILL. He nearly died TWICE. Do not think going into this with a breeder puppy you will be free of health problems... At least with a shelter dog you don't pay 2K up front and you can put that towards medical issues if it does have any. Theres also a lot of pure bred german shepherd in shelters. Do a search on petfinder, fix the filters and broaden the search and you'll see.


I have had the opposite experience. The dog with the worst problem was a street dog which never went through a rescue group. Any breeder, even a good one, can have a sick dog. It happens. If I paid $2000 for a deathly sick dog, I would return it. A good breeder with all positive recommendations, will take it back. 

A mix is a crapshoot. Here most of the GSD mixes are mixed with a breed I would never own. They can have health problems and they can have temperament problem. It is a complete myth that mixed breed dogs are always healthier than purebred. Shelter dogs are usually exposed to contagious diseases, like parvo and kennel cough.

Health of purebred vs mixed breed dogs: the actual data - The Institute of Canine Biology


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> I have had the opposite experience. The dog with the worst problem was a street dog which never went through a rescue group. Any breeder, even a good one, can have a sick dog. It happens. If I paid $2000 for a deathly sick dog, I would return it. A good breeder with all positive recommendations, will take it back.
> 
> A mix is a crapshoot. Here most of the GSD mixes are mixed with a breed I would never own. They can have health problems and they can have temperament problem. It is a complete myth that mixed breed dogs are always healthier than purebred. Shelter dogs are usually exposed to contagious diseases, like parvo and kennel cough.
> 
> Health of purebred vs mixed breed dogs: the actual data - The Institute of Canine Biology


When that "good" breeder gets cancer there will be no one taking it back. Life happens. You either spend $2000 on a dog from someone and hope for the best or you take a risk and spend $100 on a shelter dog and hope for the best. I've seen it go both ways many times, that was just my personal experience. My sister rescues from shelters all the time, she has had a couple sick dogs (yes shelters are great places for spreading disease but a good shelter will already start treatment and include plans for future treatment for the new owner) and a couple perfectly healthy dogs. In the case of the biology world you don't always "get what you pay for". Even a great breeder might have a pup somewhere down the line with a random genetic defect. And how can you return a puppy you've loved and cared for and hope that a breeder with their hands full with care for it better than you? I certainly couldn't... Pure bred shepherds are prone to all sorts of medical issues, just google it.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

AE316 said:


> Once again thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. I know as much as I really want a GSD I now know it's not the right time or who knows even if I'll get one in the future thanks to you folks. You guys have been great with your input. My wife and I did talk about getting an older dog (not too old - maybe 2-3 yo?), but not sure if that'll happen any time soon or in the near future. This way the dog is already house trained and won't need that much work compared to a puppy especially a GSD. Personally I don't mind putting effort into a puppy, but she'd have to be on board with it for that to work out.
> 
> If and only if she is on board and when that time comes I'll check out local shelters. Our main concern with shelters is getting a dog that has tons of health issues then we'd be stuck with tons of vet bills. Yes the shelter dogs are cheaper in price compared to a well known breeder, but the cost being low can backfire with tons of health problems. I know that can still happen if we got a puppy from a good breeder, but we just think some shelter dogs could have health problems. Not sure if the law mentions they need to disclose any health problems? Magwart, any recommendations for a breed that you may think would be right fit for us? And also what age do you think should be good where the dog is well trained? We wouldn't want one that's really old.* I don't wanna go with Newfoundland because I don't like all all that hair. If we were getting a GSD it'll be a short haired compared to long hair*. Maybe a lab? I don't really want a lap dog I prefer something slightly bigger. My wife does like pugs, but I'm not that keen of them.
> 
> As for talking with my wife about things that I have mentioned in the postings we have sat down and talked about things. Right now I'm fine with the workload I have taken on, but she's well aware that once the baby gets a bit older I want her to do more. I can take the baby and she could wash the dishes which she did do in the past. I realize marriage is a union not a matter of he/she said, but sometimes it can get frustrating, but we are working through it. Having kids in the mix changes it up as we can already tell.


The bolded part jumped right out at me! You do know we refer to them as German Shedders right? 
I think you and your wife could have a great time checking out different breeds, and working out a plan together.
If you like herding dogs, with pointy ears and shorter coats, that are great with kids might I suggest you check out Corgi's? 
Seriously one of my all time fav breeds, and one that gets over looked far to often. Smaller size might appeal to your wife.
Good luck to you.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> When that "good" breeder gets cancer there will be no one taking it back. Life happens. You either spend $2000 on a dog from someone and hope for the best or you take a risk and spend $100 on a shelter dog and hope for the best. I've seen it go both ways many times, that was just my personal experience. My sister rescues from shelters all the time, she has had a couple sick dogs (yes shelters are great places for spreading disease but a good shelter will already start treatment and include plans for future treatment for the new owner) and a couple perfectly healthy dogs. In the case of the biology world you don't always "get what you pay for". Even a great breeder might have a pup somewhere down the line with a random genetic defect. And how can you return a puppy you've loved and cared for and hope that a breeder with their hands full with care for it better than you? I certainly couldn't... Pure bred shepherds are prone to all sorts of medical issues, just google it.


I am aware of health problems, but I have had many GSDs, both rescued and from breeders. Not one had dysplasia or any of the early deadly cancer. My previous dog who was a street or shelter dog had terrible skin allergies, terrible behavior problems and anal fistulas. My current rescue had a tumor removed but it was encapsulated and did not spread. My breeder dogs have all been exceptionally healthy. I have had a few rescues who were.

We all come here from different backgrounds and with different experiences. I am not saying you are wrong, it was your experience and that of your family. But from an advice standpoint to the OP, saying only shelter dogs are good dogs is not helpful and I think not the best advice for someone with very young children. For adults only, sure, do what fits your needs. I understand not everyone wants to or can spend $2000 on a dog. But when giving advice, we need to be much more open minded.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> I am aware of health problems, but I have had many GSDs, both rescued and from breeders. Not one had dysplasia or any of the early deadly cancer. My previous dog who was a street or shelter dog had terrible skin allergies, terrible behavior problems and anal fistulas. My current rescue had a tumor removed but it was encapsulated and did not spread. My breeder dogs have all been exceptionally healthy. I have had a few rescues who were.
> 
> We all come here from different backgrounds and with different experiences. I am not saying you are wrong, it was your experience and that of your family. But from an advice standpoint to the OP, saying only shelter dogs are good dogs is not helpful and I think not the best advice for someone with very young children. For adults only, sure, do what fits your needs. I understand not everyone wants to or can spend $2000 on a dog. But when giving advice, we need to be much more open minded.


Yes I do think you need to be more open minded. You can get a sick dog from a shelter or a breeder, it doesn't really matter! My point exactly :wink2:. Since that may be the case take necessary precautions, get GOOD pet insurance that actually pays up , and don't waste a ridiculous amount of money on any dog if you can't fork up some extra cash on top for medical expenses.


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## Joys (Nov 6, 2017)

The best dog I ever had was a female yellow lab. She lived 17 years! If I was looking for a basic good family dog, that’s the route I would go.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

If you want a dog, a GSD, get a GSD when you can REALLY enjoy that dog. Your kids are too young and your life to busy. You will be glad you waited.


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## Spetzio (Oct 8, 2015)

> I don't wanna go with Newfoundland because I don't like all all that hair. If we were getting a GSD it'll be a short haired compared to long hair. Maybe a lab?


Bit off topic, sorry in advance:

I just have to point out, all of the above are very active shedders.  I work as a dog groomer. If it's the maintenance of the long hair itself that you're not wanting to deal with, rather than the shedding, that makes sense. Labs especially shed like crazy. I've also found that the stock coat GSDs drop their hair more often, thus appearing to shed more than the long coat GSDs. I can run my hand down the back of any stock coat GSD we get in the salon and can guarantee a bunch of loose hairs will fall off. Running my hand down the back of my long coat GSD will net no hairs whatsoever. Though I should mention that he is combed with a greyhound comb every other day, an undercoat rake every two weeks or so, bathed every month, and I neaten up his butt fluff and trim off the ear fluff with my shears. 

In general, the longer the hair follicle, the longer the lifespan of said hair follicle. The long hairs drop less often but tend to clump when it does, and need to be brushed out more and can mat in certain high-friction areas, such as behind the ears, the butt fluff, and sanitary area. 

As an aside, I saw Corgis mentioned above too - absolutely CRAZY shedders!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Kyrielle said:


> How about a smooth-coated Collie (Collie with short hair)? You'll get your herding breed fix, but have a dog that's much gentler and calmer in terms of temperament vs a GSD.


I concur. Collie's are my first love. And someday, when I'm done with IPO, I'll have another. 

I don't agree that a collie with a smooth coat sheds less than a collie with a long coat. It's just that the hair is shorter. You have to groom both regularly, the smooth coat just doesn't knot and tangle.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> This is just WRONG WRONG WRONG. *Most shelter dogs are mixes which actually gives them the benefit of... yes HEALTH*. We got a pure bred puppy from a breeder who has not a single negative review anywhere on the interwebs and a massive positive following of people who have adopted puppies from her over the course of something like 30 years. Our puppy came home DEATHLY ILL. He nearly died TWICE. Do not think going into this with a breeder puppy you will be free of health problems... At least with a shelter dog you don't pay 2K up front and you can put that towards medical issues if it does have any. Theres also a lot of pure bred german shepherd in shelters. Do a search on petfinder, fix the filters and broaden the search and you'll see.


Please post a study proving this. Not anecdotal articles with no backing, but actual studies from a reputable source.

Buying from a poor breeder does not equal poor health across the breed. My shelter dog has cost thousands, where all of our purebreds (2 from byb's) have been healthy until old age.

Genetics are genetics, whether they are in a mixed breed or a purebred. A good breeder knows their stock and the medical issues. A dog from a BYB or shelter is a real crapshoot that some people just aren't willing to take.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> GandalfTheShepherd said:
> 
> 
> > This is just WRONG WRONG WRONG. *Most shelter dogs are mixes which actually gives them the benefit of... yes HEALTH*. We got a pure bred puppy from a breeder who has not a single negative review anywhere on the interwebs and a massive positive following of people who have adopted puppies from her over the course of something like 30 years. Our puppy came home DEATHLY ILL. He nearly died TWICE. Do not think going into this with a breeder puppy you will be free of health problems... At least with a shelter dog you don't pay 2K up front and you can put that towards medical issues if it does have any. Theres also a lot of pure bred german shepherd in shelters. Do a search on petfinder, fix the filters and broaden the search and you'll see.
> ...



Here you go
http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/health-of-purebred-vs-mixed-breed-dogs-the-data


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

One article with one legitimate reference out of 4 does not make a fact. Especially with a long list of diseases that have the same rate. These facts certainly could be skewed by the fact that studies are done on purebred and therefore better documented. Or maybe people that spend money to but a dog are more likely to go you the vet where it's recorded.

It's illogical to think a collie mix will not have collie eye or the mrdr gene. It's illogical to think that a great Dane mix will not have the gene that predisposed them to bloat. Or that a mixed breed will not have the DM gene. Or a gsd mix won't have the gene to predispose the to hemangio. 

Genetics are genetics.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> One article with one legitimate reference out of 4 does not make a fact. Especially with a long list of diseases that have the same rate. These facts certainly could be skewed by the fact that studies are done on purebred and therefore better documented. Or maybe people that spend money to but a dog are more likely to go you the vet where it's recorded.
> 
> It's illogical to think a collie mix will not have collie eye or the mrdr gene. It's illogical to think that a great Dane mix will not have the gene that predisposed them to bloat. Or that a mixed breed will not have the DM gene. Or a gsd mix won't have the gene to predispose the to hemangio.
> 
> Genetics are genetics.


I agree completely. Whoever decided that “hybrid vigor” applied to mixed breed dogs (spoiler alert, it doesn’t) is a marketing genius. Unless that mixed breed dog was bred by someone with experience breeding, who health tests their own stock when making breeding decisions, you have a complete genetic crapshoot. Sure, some mixed breed dogs could be healthy, but you have a far better chance of getting a healthy dog from a good breeder. The problem lies in finding a good breeder, not just one that looks good on paper to unexperienced eyes (not a judgment, my first GSD is a mess and came from what I thought at the time was a good breeder).


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

GypsyGhost said:


> I agree completely. Whoever decided that “hybrid vigor” applied to mixed breed dogs (spoiler alert, it doesn’t) is a marketing genius. Unless that mixed breed dog was bred by someone with experience breeding, who health tests their own stock when making breeding decisions, you have a complete genetic crapshoot. Sure, some mixed breed dogs could be healthy, but you have a far better chance of getting a healthy dog from a good breeder. *The problem lies in finding a good breeder, not just one that looks good on paper to unexperienced eyes* (not a judgment, my first GSD is a mess and came from what I thought at the time was a good breeder).


This is so true. The guidelines for finding a well bred puppy is so much more than the breeders word.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@GypsyGhost 

Exactly!!

So much to consider before making a statement like that. Are the genes Recessive? Or Dominant? What was the control Group? What other studies were done to confirm the Theory? And on and on....

I haven't read the references yet. It's been the worst morning here. But the legitimate sources are not titled as if they support that article. I'll look them up tonight.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Spetzio said:


> Bit off topic, sorry in advance:
> 
> I just have to point out, all of the above are very active shedders.  I work as a dog groomer. If it's the maintenance of the long hair itself that you're not wanting to deal with, rather than the shedding, that makes sense. Labs especially shed like crazy. I've also found that the stock coat GSDs drop their hair more often, thus appearing to shed more than the long coat GSDs. I can run my hand down the back of any stock coat GSD we get in the salon and can guarantee a bunch of loose hairs will fall off. Running my hand down the back of my long coat GSD will net no hairs whatsoever. Though I should mention that he is combed with a greyhound comb every other day, an undercoat rake every two weeks or so, bathed every month, and I neaten up his butt fluff and trim off the ear fluff with my shears.
> 
> ...


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

My stock-coat (short-coated) GSDs shed a TON, and when we got the 2nd one, it seemed to quadruple. SO. MUCH. FUR. EVERYWHERE.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Here you go
> Health of purebred vs mixed breed dogs: the actual data - The Institute of Canine Biology


Sorry guys, this is going to be a long post.

I genuinely dislike this study. It takes the information and presents it in a biased way when the research paper itself does not. The bar graphs are such a huge no-no in data representation for a reason. That's why when you read the actual research paper, it shows the actual numbers with statistical clarification. Not only that, but it highlights specific information in a way to draw the reader into a specific conclusion - that mixed breed dogs are healthier. However, if you read the actual paper, you'd find these points:

*"Recently derived breeds or those from similar lineages appeared to be more susceptible to certain that affect all closely related purebred dogs, whereas disorders with equal prevalence in the 2 populations suggested that those disorders represented more ancient mutations that are widely spread through the dog population." *

I think this is pretty clear cut. Inbreeding, if done poorly and without a true understanding of what each dog brings to the table, can be a very dangerous thing. However, when a breeder does their research, learns about lines and understands what dogs have produced or what dogs are likely to produce, can correct these genetic problems and produce healthier dogs.

*"The common assumption that a mixed-breed dog is healthier would not be true if both parents carried the deleterious mutations for the same disorder."*

This is important to consider. The reason why it may not be perceived as more common is because often these mixed breed dogs are generally wandering and find a dog from a different lineage, or an accidental litter occurs between different lineages. This is why BYB is so dangerous and why we need to support our ethical breeders more, or to hold those who choose to produce mixed breed dogs to the same standard as ethical breeders in terms of health testing if it is a conscious decision. If not, then the puppies should be tested for potential health problems.

*"Rigorous selection pressures to refine the breeds by inbreeding and bottlenecks would contribute to a loss of genetic diversity, thereby increasing the likelihood of recessive disorders within a breed population"*

Once again, clear cut - when you are not aware of what kind of dogs you are putting together, you start to play with fire. This is why breeders who know the breed are so invaluable.

*"A recent study found a direct correlation between disorders inherited in purebred dogs and the morphological characteristics specified in the breed standard."*

This is a fancy way of saying that when you breed for a _look_ versus _function_, you can damage the dog as a whole.

*"To enhance the reliability of the analyses, the sampling set of healthy control dogs was repeated 50 times for each condition investigated. That is, for any given condition, an equal number of healthy dogs, stratified by the age, body weight, and sex of the affected dogs, were randomly selected 50 times to create repeated control data sets matched to the affected dogs. In this manner, the sole variable between the 50 randomly created data sets representing the control population was the number of mixed-breed or purebred dogs."*

Personally, I would be interested to see how the data would change if this were done for each breed and their specific disorders, rather than just the disorder. Especially considering that 41 breeds were analysed. 

*"Of the 24 disorders assessed, 13 had no significant difference in the mean proportion of purebred and mixed-breed dogs with the disorder when matched for age, sex, and body weight."*

That would be over half of the disorders assessed... huh.

*"In contrast, 10 disorders were more prevalent in mixed-breed dogs... [t]en genetic disorders had a significantly greater probability being found in purebred dogs."*

That number looks oddly the same to me...

*"One concern with this approach is that a breed-specific disorder found in a high-population breed may inflate the prevalence among purebred dogs, unduly influencing the interpretation of the results. This does not appear to be the case."*

I'm glad the study touched on this, but they are still obviously limited and not entirely confident this is true.

*"Every disorder was seen in the mixed-breed population. Thus, on the basis of data and analyses, the proportion of mixed-breed dogs and purebred dogs affected by genetic disorders may be equal or differ, depending on the specific disorder... [t]he study population represented dogs evaluated at a teaching hospital, and the proportions of the disorders in the purebred and mixed-breed dogs may have been different than in the general canine population."*

*"Additionally, clients are willing to pursue more extensive treatments at a referral hospital. Owners of purebred dogs are more likely to spend more on their dogs than are owners of mixed-breed dogs, which would result in a greater proportion of purebred dogs, as seen in the present study... Further more, the Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital at the University of California-Davis represents a dog population primarily from the west coast and may not represent dog populations in other geographic regions."*

I'm also glad they touched on this - it's very important to consider where the sample size is coming from. It's also important to consider where each of these purebred dogs is coming from. I really would have liked for them to gather more information or do a future study and request vets to ask their clients if the parents of the afflicted dog had been health tested against these genetic disorders. I feel like that would make a very clear divide in the results.

*"Our results, which corroborate the findings of [a] previous study indicated that in addition to hip dysplasia, several other disorders did not predominate among purebred dogs."*

Very important to note.

*"... the underlaying casual mutations likely occurred more recently, as as after the gene pools for particular purebred dogs were developed, or where characteristic of particular lineages. In this study, 4 of the top 5 breeds (by percentage) affected with elbow dysplasia are characterized as being from the Mastiff-like dog lineage."*

*"Disorders may be associated with breed derivation or with breed bottlenecks. Such an example is the Irish Wolfhound, a breed with relatively few dogs registered annually."*

Also important to consider. Not all breeds are made equal or equally healthy, or have a large population to choose from to ensure genetic health and diversity.

*"Purebred dog owners, often devoted to a breed and seeking to track the healthy of that breed, may have created the impression that purebred dogs are not as healthy as mixed-breed dogs. Overall, the prevalence of disorders among purebred and mixed-breed dogs in the present study depended on the condition, with some having a clear distinction between purebred and mixed-breed dogs and others having no difference... Reliable genetic tests or screening at a young age may reduce some disorders in the dog population as a whole. Additionally, some disorders may require breed registry intervention to reduce conformation selection that contribute to predisposing a breed to a disorder."*

Huh. What a thought: purebred owners who are invested in the breed will work to create a healthier dog by registering dogs that may or may not be afflicted by genetic conditions prevalent in the breed. It's almost as if you can work to eliminate or greatly reduce the possibility of these problems happening...


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