# Woman Denied SD, Company Kept $20K



## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

This story really has me confused and unhappy. Can the company really kept the $20,000. Money raised for a service dog for this woman. I know they say it's in the contract she signed. Really it that right?!?! She only had 5.5 of boot camp and testing. I don't know how the process works. Intrested to hear your thoughts.


Valley woman denied service dog, company keeps her $20K


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

Wow. Sounds like a total scam...and targeting the handicapped? That's so foul


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

I agree....sounds like she was scammed big time and the letter was a total fudge. Hope the company gets creamed. 

Jelpy


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

That's what I tought....SCAM. I feel bad for those who are handicapped and need help. Now their dreams of recieving help for a SD are destroyed by a group claming to help people gain their independence.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

That is so sad. I hope she gets her money back.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Lawyer...that's what she needs.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

This is just sickening. Honestly what service dog doesn't listen to a command it's given? She obviously can speak and well enough to be understood if the dog was properly trained I would assume it should listen to a command given. If that dog didn't work they should have tried others. Obviously if in 6 months she raised the money it's not like they raised the dog specifically for her so they should have had her tested with a dog/dogs BEFORE taking her money to see if she could have a dog you don't approve someone then tell them afterwards no you can't have it.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Holmes, it sounds like she never REALLY got a chance to command the dog herself, because the trainers never left. The dogs were bonded to the trainers, and she was not given a real opportunity to work the dog herself.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There are scoundrels all over. I can see having a non-refundable deposit for all the testing and time training and paperwork, maybe $1000 tops, but 20k??? 

Someone needs to hire an attorney.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

How sad, they definitely took her for a ride. However I can't see myself "donating" $21K to a FOR-profit LLC....the whole thing seems way off.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I don't know, If you were a breeder and trainer of top quality dogs, and held those dogs back and trained them to the point of being service dogs, and then housed the prospective clients for three weeks, teaching them how to interact, train, maintain the dog, and you do this as a full-time occupation, and trained dogs, customized to their owner's needs for a variety of tasks, why should you not be compensated for your work, why should it not be for profit? The people that make those wheel chairs those people are sitting in are not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They are making them to make a profit. They are not getting the chairs or other medical equipment or services for cost. The people who make cat scan machinery, MRI machines, laboratories -- it is a big business, and no one is working for free. 

If the people delivered a dog capable and trained for what the woman needed, and showed her how to manage the dog, than 21k does not seem out of the ball park. It is not just a dog. It would be a trained service dog, and it would be hopefully warrantied for a number of years, and also should have some customer support ongoing as well.

If you figure a well bred pup with working ability is worth $2,500. And you hold back three or four pups to be socialized to every type of environment and trained. Figure one or more pups drop out for one reason or another. And at two years old you have a rock solid, nicely trained, healthy dog that can do the job, why should that not be worth 20k? A typical yearly salary is 30-40 thousand easy. If the company is employing people they have to cover those costs too. 

This yayhoo probably had more applicants than dogs, and this woman was probably done before she ever arrived. If a good lawyer could prove that there was no intention to place a dog with her, then I think it should be more than a civil matter, but a criminal matter.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Sue them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

I can a image she is on a fixed incomme and it cost money to sue someone. Her bf also forked over his savings to help out with the service dog. I hope a lawyer sees this a pro bono job and helps her out. I wonder how they sleep at night knowing they have done this to someone. Or as my mom would say there are places for people like that........
Just saying my 2 cents.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The lawyer should not do it pro-bono, the lawyer should sue the company for an amount beyond what they paid, and work for a percentage. 

If someone pays you for a good or service and you do not deliver the good or service, but take the money, the individual has a number of options. They can be defeated, and chalk it up as a learning experience. They can rip your name and try to guilt you into doing the right thing, or turn public opinion against you. They can file in small claims court for I think $25. I do not know that this qualifies as a small claim. Or they can get a lawyer. Usually you have to pay some up front, but if this lady sets up a legal fund, I bet people will be happy to help her come up with a thousand or so to hire a good lawyer. If he takes the case, then usually he will sue them beyond the amount, so much for pain and suffering -- emotional/legal costs, 

I think that they should start with a legal suit uncover as much as possible, and possibly turn it over to the DA. Or, between the time that the lawyer starts and the case is heard, with depositions and discoveries and information gathering, it is possible that these idiots who will have to pay for their lawyer hourly, will try to come to a settlement, a settlement that will cover the woman's costs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If it was 1-2000, I would agree, suing someone will likely cost you as much as you might be able to get, and it would be a lot harder to prove that the time and effort of all the tests, boot-camp was not worth at least some of that fee. 

But, 20k? I think she has a good case.

Edited: I do not know the merits of the case, but I think she has good reason to try to go after them legally.


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

Well that's what I ment to say. I guess I didn't say that in detail though. Yes sue the company plus more and then lawyer takes his or her % from that. As I was saying I hope a lawyer sees this a helps her with legal matter.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Sue I was not disputing the price of the dog/training but that the company is a FOR-profit company. Maybe I'm wrong but most of the service dog orgs/companies/groups I've seen or read about are non-profit organizations, not for-profit LLCs. That would be a red flag for me, being asked to "donate" THAT much money up front to a for-profit company.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

I hope they get such a bad rep that nobody goes back to them!! :-( Thats is beyond disgusting behavior. Sounds like they have a personal vendetta against her and then didn't want the bad publicity after they were acting obnoxious and she wasn't backing down quietly.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I wonder why the non-profit agencies turned her down. 

I have no problem with something being for profit, and paying for it. But they should deliver, and if they do not, their profits will go way down, either by lack of business, or by legal problems.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So the people are actually "donating" to the company? And not to the person needing the dog so she can buy it. Yeah, I get what you are saying now. she raised the money through donations that they handled for her, and then she is not getting the dog, but she did not actually fork over the money, the donors did, so that she could have a dog. Yeah it is ugly looking.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I could understand if a person had to place a deposit, go through the training and for what ever reason was deemed unable to handle a dog and then lose the deposit. Or pay for 'Boot Camp'. I would feel that unfair, but I could see where that would make some sense. 

But I can't see how a company can handle the funds for a handicapped person that is making a 'purchase' of a dog to be utilized as a service dog. To have that person pay in full for said dog, and then go through training to see if they can actually get what they have already purchased? Doesn't make any sense to me at all. 

To me there is no difference then me going down and purchasing an electric wheel chair for my grandmother...realizing that she can't use it and return the chair but not get any money back. 

I wish I were an atty.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

There are companies like this around the U.S. (and some outside) that operate like this. Look at all the companies selling "SD Certification and Registration" to PWDs who believe that such will make their life easier or that such documentation is needed.

People grasping for help do not always question when someone or some business offers them a solution. These companies have lawyers who know how to twist words so on the surface people hear one thing but in truth legally it is saying something else. 



> Donations went directly into her Arizona Goldens LLC account.


People give money as a "donation" when in fact it is a pre-payment for an item or service. Before giving more then a token amount it is necessary to find out is this a for profit corporation or is it a non-profit? If non-profit how is my donation going to be spent? Do I get a tax deductible receipt for my donation? What will my donation go to if not the cause that I sent it for? Will any donations of any size (more then a token amount such as tossed into a jar) be returned if the cause or reason is cancelled?

Now - people should also be aware that many non-profits consider any donation given to them to be used as they wish. This type of action happens quite often in the SD world as with other non-profit causes. 

When it comes to money, ethics and compassion often are left far behind. Toss up some pictures of abused puppies and kittens and people will open their wallets without checking if the organization does what they claim to do.. Have an article in the paper about a person with a disability needing a new SD and many will not even confirm that the person is in truth really disabled or the organization that the dog is coming from is reputable. And the newer way to get people to part with their money are all the organizations now popping up training *SDs for disabled vets*. 

When things like this happen the best thing to do is to contact the State Attorney Generals Office in the state where the organization is located. They need to file a formal complaint. Individuals do not have the money or the power to fight an organization and their attorney in the depth it will need to go.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Interesting letter by lawyer. Very pedestrian, not legal sounding at all, grammatical errors all over the place and look at the letterhead (or lack there of).....


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

selzer said:


> So the people are actually "donating" to the company? And not to the person needing the dog so she can buy it. Yeah, I get what you are saying now. she raised the money through donations that they handled for her, and then she is not getting the dog, but she did not actually fork over the money, the donors did, so that she could have a dog. Yeah it is ugly looking.


From what I understood, the dog costs over 20k, she did not have the money and went fundraising for the dog and the account was set up in the companies name and NOT in hers. The donations went directly to them. 

Since they are not non-profit, I wonder how the IRS views that kind of money... :help:


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I feel badly for the guy who "donated" $10,000 of his savings. 

And I also disagree with the calculation of the training costs. Sure, we might pay $50 an hour for a private trainer to spend an intensive hour training with us. But I'll bet these people didn't incur as much training cost as they claim.

I hope they go to court, or else get some other resolution than the meager offering in that letter.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

The prices for Service Dogs are ridiculous. But hey... in Germany you pay up to 20 000 Euros... 
What I don't understand is how they pump up the prices like that... most disabled people can't afford that kind of money and even in Germany some insurance companies decline paying for service dogs. So other than non-profit organizations, going into debt or fundraising is the only thing left... unless you take the time to train one yourself which has it's own challenges.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Do breeders get a tax write off for donating puppies to no-profit orgs as possible service dogs?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i dont have anything to say that hasnt already been said and as tired as i am, anything i do say would sound great in my head but not come out right in meaning in this thread. i will say that I do feel bad for her that she got scammed and treated the way she did. After reading the article, i do feel she was done a big wrong. We all know we need that bond with our dogs for them to work with us thoroughly but it sounds like she wasnt even given the chance to just try to bond with the dog and was removed from the situation instead of someone working with HER and the dog. The dog knows the deal. The bootcamp is meant to train the person to work with the dog and the dog to work with the person but they werent given the chance. Thats my understanding of it. I hope that company gets smashed with horrible publicity. A deposit should have been paid with the understanding if she didnt meet the requirements they would keep the deposit and the rest of the cost wouldnt be necessary.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

A reputable company either non-profit or for profit would have known long before this stage that she was not capable of handling one of their dogs. (This is why the non-profits that she applied with probably turned her down.) Each organization chooses dogs, trains dogs, and places dogs with handlers in their own way. Being turned down by one or more organizations does not mean that a person is not deserving but that the organization is being honest up front by telling the person that their dogs would not be a good match or else they don't train what is needed by the individual. 

Remember the group (Heaven Scent Paws) in MO that charged people thousands of dollars before even showing them the final contract? Those people were desperate enough looking for something to help their children that they gave money, signed paperwork, and agreed to things that under other circumstances they never would have taken a second look at. The dogs were suppose to be trained to alert to seizures. One little girl was kicked out of the program during training with her dog because she was late to class - she had a seizure that morning and so was late getting ready to leave her hotel room. Dogs were returned for growling and biting and then being resold to someone else. Even when the truth came out people continued signing up for the dogs and setting up large fundraisers. While under investigation, the organization was still being praised by the press as being angels for the kids.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/guide-therapy-service-dogs/88758-heaven-scent-paws-mo.html Thread started 4-28-08

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...e-dogs/141041-remember-heaven-scent-paws.html Thread started 8-20-2010


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Another article

From The World
By Jessie Higgins
October 11, 2011
Ariz. dog seller's silence is Golden

Quote:
Arizona Goldens took down its website, www.arizonagoldensllc.com, on Wednesday, hours after The World ran an article about Steenbock's plight. It came back online Monday.


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