# agility class and keeping focus



## debbiebrown

just curious to hear what tecniques some of you use to keep your dog calm while others are running through the course in the indoor agility classes.........and or outdoor as well....

i know some of the border collies go bonkers, and most handlers i have seen just let them do it.........

obviously its extremely stimulating for them all to observe the others, some dogs seem to be more rambuctious than others......


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## rlwolf

So far I've just put Freyja in a down stay, and listen to her whine







That and I've let her tug on her toy a bit. But that is only during the beginning of class while the instructor talks. We haven't yet gotten to the part where she has to see all the other dogs having fun.
Good question. I'm curious to see what everyone else says.


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## elisabeth_00117

I just be super excited and silly!

Honestly, to keep Stark`s focus, as soon as he starts to look away from me or the task at hand, I call his name, jump up and down, do a jump forward at him and try to engage him in any way I can. Food also helps, but usually it`s me that he pays more attention too when other dogs and activities are going on.


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## debbiebrown

i think dogs with extremely high prey drive are a bit more difficult to entertain and keep focus. food does work well, but not always..........i find a tug just keys my dog up more.......definitely for us calming exercises seem to work better than jumping up and down or adding to his stimulation.............


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## agilegsds

> Originally Posted By: debbiebi think dogs with extremely high prey drive are a bit more difficult to entertain and keep focus. food does work well, but not always..........i find a tug just keys my dog up more.......definitely for us calming exercises seem to work better than jumping up and down or adding to his stimulation.............


Same here Debbie. I can keep my Gordon's interest by stuffing food down her throat for only so long. Then once she's over her threshold, she's gone. My trainer is starting a group class soon for Flirt and other special ed dogs like her. It will be a challenge but she definately needs it.

I'm in a class right now with another trainer with a clients' dog that I'm training and handling. Some of her foundation work focuses on getting the dog revved up at the startline and she has every dog do it. OMG - what a disaster that would be with Flirt! Which is why I don't care for this trainer's cookie cutter approach. Not every dog needs to be pumped up, some (like mine) all already way too high to begin with.


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## debbiebrown

Very good point Sandy....i totally agree! i definitely don't need to add anything to the excitement.........

basically, its up to the individual to get creative and do whatever works best pertaining to the dogs personality to keep them in line.......this definitely would not be a one size fits all in the training dept.......i am sure some people have some Very creative ideas......probably boardering on comical. such as holding a bully stick to keep the dogs attention, etc, etc.....how about Agility Comedy......and how handlers keep their dogs attention during runs....


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## Jason L

With Dottie you definitely need to work on keeping her below threshold. She is another dog where once she is over the threshold or put in too high of a drive, she is a goner. We do lots of control tugging in class where we would tug for 10 seconds, make her out the tug and sit or down for 20 sec, release and back to tugging for another 10 sec.


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## elisabeth_00117

I have yet to notice this with Stark, he is a mellow guy and it is usually me having to get him excited about something to really get his focus.

Totally opposite for me.


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## lylol

I use a crate between turns from which he cannot see the action... allows him to come back down from his own run and relax. If we are near our turn and I get him out he likes to focus on a small frisby... so I just throw it a couple inches to him, catch and release over and over... not enuf to distract a dog on course, just between us


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## mygsds

I have a problem with Kahlua as she is super high drive and gets "on" when the other dogs run. I use the LAT method from Control Unleashed to keep her focus.
I allow her to look at the dog running and tell her "yes Look at that". She will usually look at me and she gets a reward for it. I use food for this as tugging just gets her over the top but if she is getting too high then I will pull out the tug and she will focus on playing with me.
But I also will mover her back to her comfort zone (which may be a long way <G>) and gradually move back in.
We started this in class and I was able to actually sit with her in middle of the course while dogs ran and use this method. She was pretty good (squealing under her breath but staying with me until a dog hit the tunnel we were beside - but even then she stayed with me and kept looking at me when I told her to Look at that.
As for getting her fired up at the start line - she does that all on her own )

Pat


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## debbiebrown

sounds like you are doing well Pat.good for you!

i actually don't use a tug because i have also found it gets him to keyed up..........i am using calming things.....alot of long downs and i have started using a halti for our inside class right now just because the space is so much smaller and i can pull his head my way if he starts crawling out to the other dogs.........so a head pull a leave it......and food.....and relaxing exercises, because like your dog, he needs no firing up at the starting line.....lol i know there are no training collars allowed in competitions but its useful right now until we have more self control......


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## MaggieRoseLee

halti also makes a no-pull harness that you CAN use at trials. You may want to look into getting one of those for classes so you can also use it at other places for a bit of control.

(click here for info)  










BTW, this one looks like it comes with more bells/whistles and instructions than the one I got!


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## LuvourGSDs

MRL,

Do those harnesses work though ? I sure didn't like the Gentle Leaders. I want to get away from the pronge & sometimes just the flat collar doesn't work. Nothing worse than using the nice rope style slip leads & getting pulled around going in the ring & out at a trial ! We need loose lead manners ! I will have rope burn next weekend dealing with it for 2 days.










BTW,
I have 2 more classes to go with Shadow in agility & I decided to stop classes with him b/c of his excitement in class.







I have more control over him than the guy does his Aussie !







This dog will be line right at another dog. He came at Shadow & nipped him on the butt last week causing me to get in between them. This is the same dog that pulled his owner over in a chair to bite Shadow's tail once in a public setting about a yr ago. This dog & Shadow have never liked each other so, not good in this class IMO.

Shadow is in a xpen & when the Aussie runs I click & treat him for his focus on me. IF I don't do this with him, he whines to high heaven & drives you nuts. He also goes nuts with alot of excitement & gets keyed up fast....... scary.

When we take our turn to run, Shadow tries & would do AWESOME IF this Aussie wasn't barking & carrying on at him. He's focus then is to go get that dog. He has tried to b line at him. Sucks.

I wish I knew how to gain his focus 100% b/c had I had that, he kicks butt in agility, picks things up fast & has the speed.


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## debbiebrown

oh yeah.those aussies and border collies..........i have had issues with them in classes..................mostly the stare downs and eye contact they give Sam........i am aware of it and redirect Sam, unfortunately the owners of these dogs are not in tune with the staring matches and i have had to mention it to the trainer............even after mentioning it to the owners they don't seem to stay on top of it........i have yet to see BC's Aussies, and GSD's great pals..........i think it a rival of some sort........

MR thanks for the info on the halti harness..at some point maybe it would be useful........right now the head halti works best because i want his attention, and i have control of his head., redirecting him and then using OB and rewards for "leave it"
i do think teaching self control in the Agility inviroment is a big accomplishment............i think asking them to be completely quiet is a bit much, there is bound to be some vocalization, but managing anything more than that takes some creative thinking, knowing your dog, what works etc.


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Quote: This is the same dog that pulled his owner over in a chair to bite Shadow's tail once in a public setting about a yr ago.


Did the instructor see/know about this? Did you discuss it with them? I know in my classes, an instructor will meet with a handler/problem dog quietly after class and recommend some obedience or something or another class to give the other dogs a break. Otherwise they tend to lose more than just one student who will quietly fade away cause classes are too stressful with the real problem dog attending. That means loss of $$$ and empty classes.

Even coming up with a management plan for ALL dogs. I know one set of classes all the dogs were great and friendly and hung out, so we had them tied to the wall or just beside us on leashes. Then the next session had 2 new CRAZY dogs that weren't aggressively fighting when they got loose and 'attacked' but were TOTALLY inappropriate when they'd run full tilt at a dog trying to run a course. 

So we had a rule change and only the dog running was allowed off leash, the rest of the dogs had to be crated. So helped with the triggers and overexcitement issues. But this was ONLY addressed when we went to the instructor with a bit of a rebellion cause she hadn't even seen all the problems (gee, go figure she was watching someone else run and trying to teach them. WHAT'S WITH THAT!!).

TALK TO THE INSTRUCTOR and not just to complain but to explain you'll have to (sadly) withdraw from classes because of the situation with the other dog. Unless she can think of something else?????

The harness DOES work cause it pulls the dog back and around to the handler when they are trying to pull away. Connects to the dog's chest. But if you are at all worried about barking/nipping from your dog, clearly you don't have the same control over their mouth as the Gentle Leader.


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## LuvourGSDs

Thanks MRL.









I have not other than say on my last email to trainer, would like to pull Shadow out of agility class & try to put him back in rally , b/c , I just don't think he or the Aussie is ever going to focus in that class. Email back said, up to you.









Sad, in our area, this is all we have, 1 gal that started a agility class & I really don't think she knew how to teach us things 100%. She has learned new things & trying to go back & correct the way we have already done things.

Ex. never learned to right way to do contacts, just through us in there, set up a course, & had us run. Now she has worked with us a tad to trying to hit the contact correctly. When I went to pass trials, people in the classes that were doing the whole course, their dogs blew the contacts, almost every dog.

Just all we have close by. Never work on the same thing/things each week. She expects you to train at home & not rely on just the class...... I understand that.

Any dog good or bad has entered these classes. I have always had issues with these Aussies (4 of them, all related, 2 diff owners). I try to keep control focus of my crew..... it is sometimes a chore & LOTS of treats.

I know not all trainers know it all nor are there to tell you how to handle your dogs , but , this one class has been chaos. Shadow is the one out of our 3 that gets supper amped up over excitement, we are working on that.

That's why I asked about dvds, would like to know of some great ones to teach *contacts* & *handling* as in your running on the course, where, how, or best way to make crosses. Any other great ones out there that's a must watch also.









I'm not set out to get my MACH or anything, just would like to compete local & more coming to this area. I love it, the dogs love it, & would love to continue with it.

Could you name the top 3 harnesses you would recommend for pullers ?









Thanks again & have to say, Control Unleashed has really helped me with some issues. This trainer bought the book also & encouraged many others to buy & read.


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## debbiebrown

yep, for Sam the GL tends to keep him a bit quieter, a bit more humbled shall we say.........but that harness does look good for other issues..................

we have had alot of dog issues in our class.......mainly people who weren't controlling their dogs..a few dogs that got loose slipped out of the owners leash, etc....a few fights.........

i agree that things need to be addressed with the instructor, and they should be willing to make adjustments if they want to keep the people coming back.............

i come in a few minutes late to our class............unfortunately my instructor is into doggie play which is fine......when we enter the classroom and 10 dogs come running at us...Sam is immediately put on defense and it is not a great way to start class. so, i spoke to the trainer about it...........i now go in first announce we are there and everyone leashes and controls their dogs when we walk in...........For Sam we need a more controlled inviroment since we are working on other things.
Dog play is great, but being greeted with 10 out of control dogs jumping all over you is not a good way to enter a room.........................being a proactive owner i need to address anything that is uncomfortable for my dog..........


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## JakodaCD OA

Jen, I keep telling deb (now i'm telling you)) you guys need to move into civilization and find some GOOD trainers)))

None of that stuff would fly around here...that's bull to pay all that money and have to put up with the stuff you two have to put up with..((


Jen I like "anything" Greg Derrett, he has dvd's out,


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## debbiebrown

oh, i totally agree Diane!!!!!!!!!! but, around here there isn't much to pick from as you have heard from me time and time again......so, if ya wanna be involved in an activity, you gotta pick the lesser of two evils.........try and comform what class you pick into something that can work...........its really rediculous some of the trainers here...........anyone might as well hang a shingle out and join them..........unfortunately the general public don't have a clue, they are paying money for a weekdend warrior certified trainer.....Sad.........And people that do know better have to suck it up and do their own thing.....


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## JakodaCD OA

well like I said, you need to move out of the boonies and into civilization ! LOL...we cook on stoves down here too, don't have to go outside and make sure the fire's still going LMBO..


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## debbiebrown

well, Diane we do have some advantages to living in the stix................we have plenty of fire wood, and a few street lights..............

you need to send some of those big city trainers up this way....................


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## mygsds

I've gone to a gentle Leader too. Gives me more control in a crowded area at trials especially. CPE and AAC allow you to use a GL to go into the ring which I like. I take a slip lead for the end of the run for her to tug on as we go out. She has learned that the tug is now at the end of her run not before it )
Pat


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## mygsds

If you want to hear screaming check this out
http://www.youtube.com/mygsds#p/u/9/Ki2yUNZIxKM

This was first run of the weekend and Kahlua tends to get very excited first time in the ring. Crazy girl.

Pat


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## debbiebrown

Pat,
loved the video! yep, someone was just a bit excited! lol

the GL has really helped us alot...............it was a bit frustrating for me trying to stick to the flat buckle in such and exciting atmosphere............i had to give in and get a bit more control of the head.............what a difference!


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## agilegsds

The video didn't play for me. :-( But, yeah, I have a screamer too. I've taken a break from bringing Flirt to indoor trials to socialize until we can get her pipes under control. While it may be acceptable for a 30 lb. BC to 'vocalize', it's frowned upon (at AKC shows) when you have a screaming 58 lb. black dog of a breed that very few people recognize. Looking forward to the spring and getting her outdoors to USDAA, NADAC and CPE trials to work on it.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Since I have to drive over an hour for good classes, I feel the pain. 

The no pull harness I recommended helps, and it's the only thing I can use at trials to at least have SOME control. Otherwise, truthfully, I use the prong until my dog(s) learn not to pull. I'd be using a prong at trial for Glory when I'm walking her around, only I'd be in big big trouble (so I have to use that no pull harness).

go to the cleanrun site and look at their most popular and top selling DVD's, then look at the reviews/description and buy the ones that look like they will fill the biggest gaps in your training.

Are you already on the [email protected] group? 

Have you checked out clubs/classes on http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=page.display&page_id=111 maybe there is something new posted. Are you an hour or so away from another state cause you may want to open your search. I live in PA and train in NJ.


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## LuvourGSDs

Thanks for the OP of this great post.







I was going to start one like it b/c of my issue in this one class.

Yes, pros & cons to living out & in a small town.







This trainer is trying , but , don't think we have even been taught 100% correctly. I don't think she expected many of us to compete & then run into issues.

It was just the Aussie & Shadiw last night, Collies mom was sick. Well, it didn't go too bad. One other time like this, when just us, it was real bad. I told the trainer after class, even though I wanting to stop coming to this class b/c of the chaos & stress, I told her I really think it would be good for both dogs to LEARN control. Shadow just kicks butt at this & would love to keep him in it. When we rescued him, his rear hips look sloppy when he walked, but never has slowed him down. Getting weight on him & building up that muscle mass has sure helped. Vet said, it is better to keep him active than let him lay so, if he has no problems doing the agility, keep him in it.

Trainer agreed, that running away from class isn't going to help his issue.

I NEED to learn how to gain his focus as this is his only downfall IMO, he is supper vocal (none of our other dogs do this) & gets really excited/amped easy. In this case, he wants to go control the issue. Trainer said, that problem probably landed him in the shelter. His focus when not distracted, is wonderful & he wants to learn & work.

This dog I have NOT worked at all in agility & this is his 2nd class & he has the weaves down, I'm in aw.

My female finally got them after 2 yrs of agility. These classes though you do not have run to have a full setup & don't get to use/learn all the equipment. Just started learning the teter in the fall.

I thank you all for the replies to this topic, because I thought I was the only GSD owner that has a VERY vocal GSD.

He is 2 different dogs, at home...... calm, gentle, laid back, not supper excited (only at the 4-wheeler), & then to take him in public around dogs, he loses his brain ! He gets so excited around dogs, not sure what he thinking. Causes ALOT of attention to you as a team, because people think, that ALL black GSD is crazy & mean because he goes off at the chops !


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## debbiebrown

Jen,
your guy sounds just like my young male...........we have been doing agility for about 1 1/2 years...........Sam has other issues we are working on, but self control, and impulse control is the big thing............i honestly wanted to quit a few times, because it was pretty rocky. mostly had issues with the aussies, and BC's making eye contact and trying to re-direct my dog and get his attention and keep it, so there wouldn't be trouble........also it seemed that when the regular dogs ran through the course like labs, or milder dogs he was ok, but the minute his rivals were running through i had no control of his voicing and crawling out in his down.......of course at the time i was trying to use a flat buckle collar only and it was extremely frustrating, because if i didn't catch things in the beginning it was nearly impossible to control him when he got started..........i tried a few things, one was having the trainer take Sam while the other dogs were running through and i would stand somewhere else............then his focus shifted to where i was, not that it is a fix, but it eliminated my frustration at the time......and i did find that after he had been over with the trainer and i came back to him to run him through the course, he was SO glad to see me he did everything i asked............but, since then i needed to gain control when he was with me, so as i said above, some relaxation exercises, and the GL have helped............you can't expect them to be comatose in this exciting sport, but some degree of control makes things a bit more pleasant........LOL


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## MaggieRoseLee

While you do need to find a vocalization that you can live with, some of the TOP DOGS in the world are very vocal.

You seen Susan Garrett's dog run?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNWOuRmGMbU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgFv8FYgfkM&feature=related

DId I post this already? ALL about dogs barking on course.

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2010/01/in-defense-of-the-opinionated-dog.html


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## LuvourGSDs

> Originally Posted By: debbiebJen,
> your guy sounds just like my young male......
> 
> so as i said above, some relaxation exercises, and the GL have helped............you can't expect them to be comatose in this exciting sport, but some degree of control makes things a bit more pleasant........LOL


Brothers........ LOL I have no clue the history of this boy, I love him to pieces & he is eager to work & please. Excitement just fuels him BIG time so, control is a must !!! I trust nothing but a pronge out in public at pet stores & walks. I use to lead him into class, but then it comes OFF. I keep him in a xpen & have him do watches at me & when quite gets a click & treats.

He is so strong & can knock you on your butt with 1 pull towards a dog so, the pronge is a must in exciting places.

He leads well on a pronge & can walk nice at times on a flat collar.

He is fine on lead going around dogs, just a pushy sniffer. He wags his tail & seems to like dogs. I do fear since he's pushy, if he b lines over, up, or to a dog, a fight will happen........ has once. He is bull headed.

I have never let him go up to this Aussie on a lead. As soon as we walk into class, the Aussie will start yapping at him.

I don't think I would even trust him in a GL.

The watch has helped me big time, with that & TONS of treats, we were able to go to our first rally trial this yr, where he placed high 90's both days with Q's. IF he will give me his 100% focus & NOT worry about excitement & dogs, he would be awesome.

Would love to do an agility trial with him, reg with AKC & NADAC, but fear him b lining at a dog. When he's running the course, he does great & listens pretty good (NOT 100%) to *here* IF I get him before he gets too focused. I have got in the middle of him & the Aussie at class (Aussie came at him) & the trainer has pushed Shadow out of the direction of b lining to the Aussie a couple of times.

I really feel the Aussie is fueling him as the owner don't do much to control him. I told him to use the clicker/treats with him, has it has helped me.

I also believe that Shad has NOT forgot this Aussie got him before & did last week with a bite on the butt.

I decided, I'm not pulling him out of class. Think it will help to keep trying to gain his control even though it nuts at times. I just don't want a dog fight..........


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## debbiebrown

again, i hear ya........Sam has gotten into it with a particular Aussie in class, and i agree the aussies know how to fuel another dog............the one in our class is a flasher, but because of the eye contacts and other b-lauguage he uses arounf Sam, i can see why things heated up......Sam doesn't start trouble, but if there is some bad vibes coming at him he takes the challenge........the owner of this aussie in my class also isn't paying attention, no real control over him.......the two fights that happened between them were short lived and ended quick by the instructor by putting them both down on their side and holding them there.......
i also had a problem early on with Sam running out for the dogs when he was running the course. he would veer off and run to the dogs at the sideline.........we finally nipped that in the bud and its fine now........he can be distracted by things at times but, he has come a long way....and since its clicked that we are a team, and this is what we are doing, and its fun he is into it for the duration of the run..........


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## mygsds

I use a prong if I feel it is the right time for one. They are allowed on the grounds at CPE and you can walk your dog into the building in a prong just not into the ring. But I find that I like the GL better (used to hate them) for Kahlua as it gives me control of her nose.

I did take her into the ring at GSD Nationals on a buckle collar though and she was fine. I have tried slip leads and flat collars but she just gets that pull reflex going 100% on those and I prefer to lead than jerk her.

I don't think a harness would be my choice but that's for her - I see other dogs in them that they are perfect for.

I don't have any issues when she is running - totally focused on her work and now is good at the end of the run too. I can also take her into the ring while a dog is working but if she is screaming I won;t as that is not fair to the other team.

Pat


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## LuvourGSDs

> Originally Posted By: mygsds
> 
> I did take her into the ring at GSD Nationals on a buckle collar though and she was fine.
> 
> Pat



You were at the GSD Nationals this yr & didn't say Hello............. LOL


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## mygsds

well you didn't either )

Pat


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Originally Posted By: mygsdswell you didn't either )
> 
> Pat


Hey she found me! We had a wonderful chat...................


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## LuvourGSDs

> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLee
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: mygsdswell you didn't either )
> 
> Pat
> 
> 
> 
> Hey she found me! We had a wonderful chat...................
Click to expand...

Yes I did & it was nice meeting ya & the girls !
















Pat, didn't know you were going to be there.







Were you at the agility ring ?

It was TOO COLD & I loved seeing ALL the GSDs, but my mind/body just wanted to go back to the SUV to stay warm !!!!!!









Was hanging outside most of the day at the rally ring !


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## mygsds

yep we only did agility. Kahlua is in Novice - her first AKC trial in fact

Pat


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