# Sloppy Execution - How to Tighten it Up?



## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

Yoshi is just over 15 weeks old and for a week and a bit I have been teaching him basic obedience and he is doing well so far. I have taught basic obedience before but now I want to take it a step further and maybe when I am ready I would like to trial. Mind you, this is my first time being serious for training and working towards a clear goal, rather than just teaching tricks because I can. 

"Sitz" he knows quite well, but still working on him staying in the "sitz" position until I say "free". He comes close and sits and faces you, I'm not overly sure if this is correct or not. 

"Stay" usually works for a little bit, but we haven't done much on it. 

"Platz" he has just learned and I am quite happy that he has caught on to this much quicker than my White Swiss, he was awful at that. 

However, Yoshi is awful at the "stand"! Either he will lean back and sit, or he will lean forward and almost face plant. But! I have been working extra hard on this and I steer him into a standing position, then position the legs accordingly, then to get him to raise his head I either hold a treat above his head or clap or wave my hands about to get his attention. When he is in the position I want I say "good boy" and either give him a treat or pet him. Very slow progress, but at least I see progress! 

Anyway, at the moment he does the "sitz" and "platz" rather sloppily. What methods are there to tighten them up? Or will he just tighten up as he gets older? At the moment when he does it good I say "good dog" and treat or pet him, when he does it sloppily I say "good but it's sloppy" and then position him how I like it, praising him when he's in the right position.


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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

No suggestions?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

No suggestions may be because - and I don't know, having not trained dogs from puppies to compete - a four month old can be helped by learning good habits as foundation, but the way you are explaining it seems overly rigid for a puppy, and people may be trying to find a nice way to say it. Or maybe that's just me! At least I've started the conversation. 

I like puppies, regardless of what they may do in the future, to have a good time learning, so that they look forward to it and want to do it, so when it gets more specific or structured, they are into it and ready/eager to learn. 

It just seems more developmentally appropriate.

Finding a good club, or getting some of the more motivational methods on video, may be helpful to you. Honestly a clicker will be much more clear most likely.


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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> No suggestions may be because - and I don't know, having not trained dogs from puppies to compete - a four month old can be helped by learning good habits as foundation, but the way you are explaining it seems overly rigid for a puppy, and people may be trying to find a nice way to say it. Or maybe that's just me! At least I've started the conversation.
> 
> I like puppies, regardless of what they may do in the future, to have a good time learning, so that they look forward to it and want to do it, so when it gets more specific or structured, they are into it and ready/eager to learn.
> 
> ...


Thanks for being honest!  So any suggestions to make it fun? After our training sessions I praise him lavishly and we have a game of fetch or tug. I have never done serious training before but I would like to have a go at it. I would love to get Yoshi a title one day. Yoshi does seem to enjoy the training most of the time, I think he's one of those dogs who just simply wants to be with you and he's happy.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

at 15 weeks it is good that you are building a foundation but also remember to let the puppy be a puppy. Their size changes so rapidly honestly sometimes they don't know where all their parts are. And parts grow at different rates, some times they favor one side and the next time another. Their frame of mind changes every few weeks as well. So go easy on yourself and your pup. If you get frustrated take a break till later in the day or the next day.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I like puppies, regardless of what they may do in the future, to have a good time learning, so that they look forward to it and want to do it, so when it gets more specific or structured, they are into it and ready/eager to learn.


^^^ This. With puppies, it needs to be fun! Heck I believe with any age dog it needs to be fun. Obedience sucks. How do you like getting told what to do every second? I'm not saying that at some point you don't have to "make" it happen, but not with a young puppy. I like to make it a fun and exciting game. Probably 80% play and 20% obedience. I also keep the session very short to keep the puppy wanting to and driving me to do it more.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Not that my first thoughts regarding your question about how to "tighten it up" is a direct answer to your situation but... since you are at the beginning of the process mostly...are you incorporating hand signals with your verbal commands as well as training eye contact/ paying attention to you ? 

As far as the " At the moment when he does it good I say "*good* dog" and treat or pet him, when he does it sloppily I say "*good* but it's sloppy"...might be a bit confusing for a young pup..."good" being used in both situations...I might use a different word to help the pup distinguish between the two levels of success.

As far as making it fun for my pup during that phase, I would use her Kong frisbee as the "fun" reward. After a few come fronts and finishes...I'd lob her the frisbee after verbal and physical praise. Two minutes of training, a minute of frisbee...for 10 minutes or so of this. The promise of the frisbee seemed to keep her interest pretty well intact. The frisbee worked great as a lure for finishing after a front. If the finish or front wasn't tight enough, I used the frisbee to bring her into proper position...once there...boom...the frisbee came her way.

Keeping it fun....I agree with the others.


SuperG


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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Not that my first thoughts regarding your question about how to "tighten it up" is a direct answer to your situation but... since you are at the beginning of the process mostly...are you incorporating hand signals with your verbal commands as well as training eye contact/ paying attention to you ?
> 
> As far as the " At the moment when he does it good I say "*good* dog" and treat or pet him, when he does it sloppily I say "*good* but it's sloppy"...might be a bit confusing for a young pup..."good" being used in both situations...I might use a different word to help the pup distinguish between the two levels of success.
> SuperG


No hand signals yet, still using voice. I really am taking it slow I think, we only do a couple of training sessions a week, and they only go for ten mins max. 

Not very familiar with training for eye contact but so far he is mostly staring at me when we do the training sessions, unless if a big distraction comes a long, like another person or dog, then he just claps out. We do our training sessions behind the backyard, it has grass, pine and gum trees, some bush, and some horses in the paddock next to it. I have done it so when I say "Yoshi" and when he looks at me I say "good boy" so most of the time when I say his name he immediately looks at me. 

Just the other day we had a training session and after that I brought out his tug, and he loves it! He literally leaps for it and clamps down, with a lot of head shaking and tugging. We have a lot of fun after training!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Yoshi said:


> Thanks for being honest!  So any suggestions to make it fun? After our training sessions I praise him lavishly and we have a game of fetch or tug. I have never done serious training before but I would like to have a go at it. I would love to get Yoshi a title one day. Yoshi does seem to enjoy the training most of the time, I think he's one of those dogs who just simply wants to be with you and he's happy.


Thanks for taking it as it was intended, too! 

Praise is ongoing, fetch and tug can be incorporated into the training, break it up - movement is fun for puppies and makes training interesting, going fast, slow, training on different (safe) surfaces, like a shower curtain liner, crate panel, towels, and that clicker really seems to make puppies accelerate their learning and make it fun as long as, I think, they have an idea of what you want, and it's not anxiety provoking. Maybe because the click is always paired with food - that seems to make it fun! Also - your attention, from the sounds of it, will be a reward for him, so use that.


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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Thanks for taking it as it was intended, too!
> 
> Praise is ongoing, fetch and tug can be incorporated into the training, break it up - movement is fun for puppies and makes training interesting, going fast, slow, training on different (safe) surfaces, like a shower curtain liner, crate panel, towels, and that clicker really seems to make puppies accelerate their learning and make it fun as long as, I think, they have an idea of what you want, and it's not anxiety provoking. Maybe because the click is always paired with food - that seems to make it fun! Also - your attention, from the sounds of it, will be a reward for him, so use that.


Yeah, no worries. 

Yes, I think he loves the attention and he's learning well so far. Pats and the occasional treats are all that I use, and of course, "good boy". Did very good at the sit-stay today! I jogged away from him and hid behind a pine tree and he stayed put!! Very proud!! :wub: Sitz has gotten heaps better and straighter, platz is still sloppy though, but there's heaps of time to work on it. Just introduced the stand-stay today now that his standing has improved heaps. I think we both look forward to the after-training-session for playing tug and fetch. It's just so much fun - especially the tug!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

sloppy platz, that is my pooch. He seldom goes into the nice square down, that makes the dog look like a sphinx. He goes down and settles on his side. We might work to "correct" this but first we'll take a look at his hips when he is a year old. If it is just his preference we'll see if we can reshape it for IPO trials, but if it just frustrates us all we'll stop and not worry about it. 

Yeah on your sit /stay. Hide and seek games can be a lot of fun.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I make my puppy sessions mostly a good chasing game, either thrown back and forth or following my hand lure and short spurts of actual "obedience" at all. I also don't expect my young puppies to have a real understanding of the command word until they're a bit older...probably around 6 months. Until then, I lure them into the correct position, eliminating the chances of allowing incorrect positioning. When I do start to expect them to understand the verbal, I don't reward for anything less than correct positioning.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Yoshi said:


> Yoshi is just over 15 weeks old and for a week and a bit I have been teaching him basic obedience and he is doing well so far. I have taught basic obedience before but now I want to take it a step further and maybe when I am ready I would like to trial. Mind you, this is my first time being serious for training and working towards a clear goal, rather than just teaching tricks because I can.
> *Trial in what venue? What is correct depends on what venue.*
> "Sitz" he knows quite well, but still working on him staying in the "sitz" position until I say "free". He comes close and sits and faces you, I'm not overly sure if this is correct or not.
> *The come & sit in front is an IPO/Schutzhund thing and the command is "Here!" not "sitz" "Sitz" means butt on the ground where you are.*
> ...


 *Heh, I wish I had some advise on this. My "jill in the box" youngest is a challenge even to get into heel position. Not like any other dog I've had. Congrats on the progress you've made.*

*I'd say, give it time.*

*No hand signals allowed in IPO except for directional in send out and blind search. And you might want to put a name of the focus behavior besides his name.*

* That's all I've got to offer.*


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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

Thank for the suggestions everyone.  So I should only reward correct positioning then?


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Use your marker, Yes or a clicker or a whistle or whatever, to mark the correct behavior. Or course you know to associate the marker with the reward, right? So you only mark good position. if your dog is a bit out of where you want her, try again. But if either of you get frustrated just move onto something else. Always end on a positive note. It is good for both of you.


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