# Floppy Ears- Breeder Issue



## allison0809 (Feb 3, 2014)

I have a german shepherd that will be 2 years old on May 14. He was very expensive (from my point of view), but he came with full breeding rights. The breeder listed him at about 2300 dollars and that is what I paid, with the understanding that I would use him as a stud dog later on. He is beautiful and I love him more than anything, but one of his ears doesn't stay up all the time. It will go up if he is in hot pursuit of something or if a stranger comes through the door, but it mostly stays floppy. If this is genetic, should I not breed him ? I don't know what I should do... Some people have seen me walking him and asked if I wanted to breed him, but I don't want to make them seem like bad breeders if they get a litter of puppies that turn out to be floppy-eared like him. The breeder I bought him from isn't the type of breeder I will buy from again... I had another german shepherd I paid 600 dollars cash for and got full breeding papers, and both his ears stood up and he was gorgeous! (and I DID successfully breed him once). I just don't know how other people/breeders/owners feel about this... I feel like if I would have known he was going to always have floppy ears, I would never have had intentions to breed him (and I definitely wouldn't have spent 2300 dollars on a dog I was never going to breed). Thoughts ??


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

What are your breeding goals, in other words, what kind of dog are you aiming to produce? Working, sport, conformation, etc. What qualities of your dog do you want to pass on and what do you think they contribute to the breed? Does he have any special titles or working ability that would perhaps be more important than a floppy ear? This info will help other forum members give advice. Are you still in touch with his breeder? 

I don't breed dogs, so I don't feel qualified to comment.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Put yourself in the shoes of a potential buyer of one of your stud's progeny....would you want the same to happen to them as what happened to you?

Just because a dog is "expensive" and one has full rights to the animal by no means constitutes a reason to simply go ahead and breed the dog. 

In your own words...." He is beautiful and I love him more than anything,".....that should be more than adequate. Too many breeders already and too many producing crappy dogs.

SuperG


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Sounds like he has weak ears. Personally I wouldn't breed him but there is more to breeding than 'ears'. My feeling is, if you wouldn't purchase from the breeder again, why would you breed one of their dogs? Just my opinion.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is a fault. A disqualifying fault. It is genetic, and you really shouldn't breed the dog. 

Check your contract. Chances are the warranty only covers hips and elbows, but some do cover genetic issues. If you bought a show puppy or a dog specifically for breeding, you should have gotten a contract that provided for the event that the dog has a disqualifying fault or genetic disease. 

Check your contract, and if it does not mention anything of the sort -- chalk it up as a learning opportunity. But don't exacerbate the problem by breeding the boy. 

A puppy is a crap shoot. Sometimes they do develop issues, faults, etc. And we need to go into it with that understanding. There are a lot worse problems out there than an ear not fully erect. It means the dog shouldn't be bred, but otherwise it does not take away from him being an awesome pet. $2300 is not out of the ball park for a well-bred, healthy pet with a good temperament. With all the problems that plague this breed, many people would gladly exchange their dog's issue for yours: Epilepsy, hemangiosarcoma, weak nerves/fear biter, crippling hip or elbow dysplasia, DM, weak nerves/storm phobia, MegaE, Spondylosis, weak nerves/separation anxiety, and on and on.

Love your puppy. This one shouldn't be bred.


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

I could be taking this out of context, but it sounds like you only want to breed him because he is purebred and beautiful. That is not a legitimate reason to breed, and if he has a floppy ear he should not be bred. And unfortunately, price does not determine quality. 

Every dog you see walking down the shelter row was once thought to be "the best dog ever" or "the most beautiful dog ever" too. What does your dog offer that those dogs do not? Something to keep in mind. 

Neither of the contracts for my dogs came with anything about the ear, but rather had specific instructions to contact them if one didn't go up, since steps can be taken to help it go up. However, it is genetic and a fault, and lets face it, the ears are a huge part of this breed that we love so much.

But like said below, that is not the make it or break it. If your dog is titled and has proven that he has multiple, more important reasons why he should be bred, than maybe he should be. However, if the only reason is that he is beautiful, he shouldn't. 

I would personally be upset if I purchased a puppy, the ear didn't go up, and then I later found out the parent had a weak ear and was bred regardless. But that's just me. It's one thing if I damaged it, but if it was knowingly passed on I feel that I would be a little angry. (This is hypothetical of course, I always want to see the parents first)

Just enjoy him as a wonderful pet that he probably is. Always buy a puppy first and foremost as a companion and whatever other plans you'd like, deciding on breeding should always be decided after the dog develops.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I agree with Mocha....except that my rescue/shelter dog *IS* the best dog ever  just messing with ya

No, I would not breed a dog with weak ears, but that's also secondary to temperament and health. What training and titles does the dog have? Health certifications? He'd have to really be something else to breed with a weak ear.


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## DaveyDog2234 (Feb 23, 2014)

*I love you ears...*

My 2 year old boy is all around beautiful! Great bloodlines and a tail that most show dogs (or rather their caretakers) would kill for. He has an extremely mellow temperament, is athletic (can easily catch a ball with all 4 paws 6 feet off the ground), has a strong back and legs, is very social with people & other dogs and is very quick to learn & understand what you want. His mother had 3 litters and many of them are search & rescue and assistance dogs. He is the only of all of his siblings who has a horizontal left ear. Raven was neutered when he was about 9 months old since I was not interested in breeding him - but his clone would definitely be an asset to the canine nation. Since he's a biker dog, who took to the sidecar without a second thought, his appearance may be part of his non-conformist attitude; or it may be simply be a reflection of his love |_
flop-eared fan


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## tomas13216 (Feb 9, 2014)

:halogsd:My boy has two floppy ears and I was told by our vet he has thin ear cartilage. We had him fixed because we did not plan on breeding and he still a very loved, valued member of our family, as he always will be. His ears are part of his personality. He only puts them up when something really gets his attention.
He (Coda) is a great dog ! He is almost 2 years old now so his ears are what they are. Guess what, we don't care! He is AWESOME!


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

when you say floppy do you mean like lab floppy or kinda down? mine has a choice in the matter, when he comes up for morning snuggles he has his ears glued to the bak of his head, but then he will move them completely erect...right now he is half asleep and his ears are super to the side of his head, but if i move they will stand then when he comes over they will be straight back to his head.


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## ladyb (Oct 11, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> when you say floppy do you mean like lab floppy or kinda down? mine has a choice in the matter, when he comes up for morning snuggles he has his ears glued to the bak of his head, but then he will move them completely erect...right now he is half asleep and his ears are super to the side of his head, but if i move they will stand then when he comes over they will be straight back to his head.



My girl does this too! She walks from room to room, ears back, saying hello...she also greets me with a lovely sit and ears back when I get home! Then I get right down in her face and tell her what a pretty girl she is....I'm actually trying to mark the behavior so that I can call her pretty girl and she'll sit like that?. My daughter pushed her ears down tonight and said " look mom, she's a black lab!" Which we hear all the time anyways??


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Stages of tysons ears, his are so telling of what he is up too, I threw in a pic of a real flop earred gal lol
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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Do not breed a dog with genetic defect.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

wolfmonte said:


> Do not breed a dog with genetic defect.


I think you look at the whole dog. There are many dogs that have their ears "helped" to stand, and go on to have successful show careers. As a breeder, when talking conformation, the successful show career indicates that the dog should be bred. Serious breeders do not waste money and time showing dogs of poor character, or dogs that have structural problems that would make breeding them wrong. The point of conformation competition is to pass on the best genes. 

I had a dog that a breeder who had been in the game for half a century at that point, tell me to put them up and I listened to her. At 3 months old, I let her glue and tape them. They went up and stayed up. I saw his sister years later at their breeders and hers never did go up.

So a softness in the structure of the ear is apparent in that line. And my guess it is in a lot of the American show line lines. 

The question becomes, if the ears are "helped" to stand, should the dog be bred or not? 

And then you look at the rest of the dog. What is it about him that you gain by breeding him. Ears are big because people want a dog that appears confident and alert. But it is still a aesthetic quality. It is a disqualifying fault. But there are no perfect dogs. I think you weigh each fault in an order of severity, but also in an area importance. A dog that shrinks from the judge will be marked lower in the class, and if the only dog that otherwise merits a first place ribbon, might have a judge withhold the first place, because temperament is highest on that list, but the dog is not disqualified until he bites the judge. 

Frankly, I would rather breed a dog with a down ear, than a dog that shrinks from the judge. 

I know in your mind neither dog should be bred. But I see it a little different. If these dogs are brothers, than yes, neither should be bred. But for me it is the temperament issue that sways that line. We don't like to see breeders with a lot of dogs. But we want them to breed their own lines, which means holding dogs back and letting them grow out. It also means taking dogs back if necessary. And maybe keeping retired dogs because how else can you see how your dogs develop and age. So there ya go, you have a number of dogs. 

You aren't going to keep a number of puppies out of each litter in case several do not pan out, for one reason or another. You are going to put your eggs in one basket, and hope for the best. I lost Mufasa (my masterpiece) to bloat. He was out of an imported bitch whose sire was a double world seiger, his sire was another import that went back to another seiger, sire to the double world sieger -- nicely line bred. I bred my boy twice to each of two bitches, for a total of 28 puppies. Out of them I kept Quinnie out of Bear and Ramona out of Karma. The rest when to new homes. The sister of Mufasa that I kept, reached 6 years old, baren. With Moofie dead, I will totally lose that line, which I have received rave reviews on. Karma and Bear are Jenna/Gispo progeny. Jenna is an Arwen/Dubya, and Gispo is a German import half-brother to my Odessa(German import above), his sire double world sieger, dam world siegerin. 

Quinnie came down with oral cancer and I lost her at 3.5 years. Ramona is 3.5 years now, and has not yet conceived. I have some time. I used my stud dog, Kojak with a litter-sister of hers that I do not own and have one of those puppies, Kaiah. Both Ramona and Kaiah are everything I would want in structure and character. But if one of them had an ear down, I don't now that I would sell or spay her for that. I know what my dogs throw, I know ears are not a problem. Rushie, the dog whose sister's ears did not go up, I was not the breeder, I did breed him to Babs once and kept two puppies, who were not what I wanted to produce. Both had ears stand on their own, both passed away last year at 10 years old. Neither were ever bred. 

I do have a couple of dogs out there with one ear down. Quincy, and Oscar, out of over 110 dogs. I do not know if they tried to get Quincy's to stand, but I owned Oscar for three years and never tried. I think they would have if I had tried. I did not keep the boy because he was closely related to everything I had, and the right family presented itself and he now has a wonderful life being the center of attention and not one of my 22. I rehomed six 10 month to 3 year old dogs, and a 7 year old bitch, to get down to 15 and then I lost 5, rehomed Lassie (Moofie's sister) last year to get down to 12, with the addition of the puppies, Tinny, Uzzi and Kaiah. 

I labor through this to show that, it isn't all cut and dried. If Ramona comes up dry, then that leaves Kaiah as the last of my Odessa line that produced so well. If she turns out to have some minor aesthetic issue, that she may pass on and she may not, I don't know. You don't always want to throw away the baby with the bathwater. And if you stop breeding every dog who has a minor fault, then shouldn't you not breed any dog that has ever produced a major fault. And any dog that is a sibling to a dog with a major fault? Pretty soon, you are throwing out dogs that are really good dogs and you will no longer have any breedable dogs, or your gene pool will be so slight that it will implode upon itself. Whether I breed or not will not make a difference, but if everyone who breeds culls (removes from their breeding prospects) every dog that has a fault, produced a fault, or is related to a dog with a fault, then we will no longer have a breed.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Really OLD thread.


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