# Clinical Pet Nutritionist certification - opinions/thoughts?



## reck0n3r (Jul 29, 2012)

Hi folks, I haven't posted in a long while, have been busy in other activism circles but I'm taking a break from all of that finally and focusing more on more immediate practical matters. I've now had my guy for just about 2.5 years - he will be 3 next month, have had him since 9 weeks old. I switched him over to a raw meat and bones diet close to almost 2 years ago and he's been very, very healthy on it. I couldn't be happier - especially after all the health problems that he had experienced as a young pup on kibble (mainly Acana - but I tried others, as well as other protein sources - I really did exhaust my options - until I got to trying out a raw diet).

To make a long story short, I'm looking to hopefully open up a raw food store, but think it would be really helpful for me to have some sort of certification, not necessarily for the diploma itself, but to be much better acquainted with what's going on at a physiological level - I will expect to have very knowledgeable customers who will have tough questions, and I'll want to be able to answer them - as well as have the knowledge myself, so I can make appropriate recommendations without being caught flatfooted.

I came across this program which seems comprehensive, but I know next to nothing about the institute offering it, and I tend to be a bit leery about online education from smaller, unknown, newer institutions. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of reviews online - but I'm hoping some of you brilliant people here could chime in and direct me in a helpful way.

It's with the "Academy of Natural Health Sciences"

Here's what's included in the program:



> Your 500-Hour Clinical Pet Nutritionist® (C.P.N.®) Studies Include:
> 
> 
> Canine Nutrition - All the basics of holistic canine health, including:The problems with pet food, protein, carbs and fat for dogs, health benefits of proper feeding, making the switch to a better diet, feeding & dry, canned or frozen food, feeding options for busy owners, keys to healthy homemade meals, preparing homemade meals, recipes your dog will love, pet nutrition supplements, herbs for dogs, homeopathic remedies, flower essence use, veterinary acupuncture, veterinary chiropractic, massage techniques, vaccinations, natural remedies & health problems.
> ...


Animal Nutrition - Pet Nutrition - Online Courses - Academy of Natural Health Sciences - Academy of Natural Health Sciences

Please keep in mind this is moreso for self-education purposes, rather than me looking to be a "professional" nutritionist. I think it'd just be helpful for me to know these things being the owner and operator of a raw pet food store.

Thoughts? 

Thanks in advance.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

l would do it, if you have the time and money...it will help prove yourself as a raw food distributor/business if you have facts to back up the stock you are selling. Best wishes, we need more of you, smaller go getter types to help our pets thrive!


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## reck0n3r (Jul 29, 2012)

I also picked up a few books that I'm going through right now:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Canine-Ancestral-Diet-Healthier/dp/1929242670/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429056552&sr=8-1&keywords=unlocking+the+canine+ancestral+diet[/ame]

The Nature of Animal Healing : The Definitive Holistic Medicine Guide to Caring for Your Dog and Cat: Martin Goldstein D.V.M.: 9780345439192: Amazon.com: Books

Paleo Dog: Give Your Best Friend a Long Life, Healthy Weight, and Freedom from Illness by Nurturing His Inner Wolf: Jean Hofve, Celeste Yarnall: 9781623361464: Amazon.com: Books


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## reck0n3r (Jul 29, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> l would do it, if you have the time and money...it will help prove yourself as a raw food distributor/business if you have facts to back up the stock you are selling. Best wishes, we need more of you, smaller go getter types to help our pets thrive!


Thanks OG! I remember your posts from years ago, you were helpful. Thank you.

And yes, I totally agree - It's important for us to be knowledgeable and based on sound reason, facts and evidence - understanding the science behind it - if we're going to help turn things around for our pets and help get others to wake up.

Thanks for the encouragement!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

With online ed, the key is to look at who is doing the teaching, who is developing the curriculum, and what their credentials are. 

The gold standard credentials in nutrition research is both a DVM and a PhD in nutrition or nutritional biology--the top people doing peer-reviewed, science-based nutrition research at vet schools seem to generally have both. 

In online, for-profit ed, you are likely to get far less than that -- the question is how much less you find tolerable. I think I'd want to at least see a DVM...

If they just have self-appointed "nutrition experts" developing the program, I think I'd run far away.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

This looks like their team that put the classes together:
Nutrition School Faculty, Holistic Health, Massage, Reiki, Sports Nutritionist, Pet Nutritionist, Master Herbalist, Aromatherapy, Detoxification Weight Loss, Yoga, Reflexology - Academy of Natural Health Sciences - Academy of Natural Health Sciences

No DVM in the bunch. In fact, most only have bachelor degrees in unrelated (non-animal) fields. There's only one advanced degree in the whole institute -- and it's the director with a doctorate in education. Some instructors look like they maybe don't even have college degrees -- including the one on the list who is apparently responsible for the pet nutrition program.

Maybe they have scientific consultants in the mix who aren't listed on the website? It would be worth asking.


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## reck0n3r (Jul 29, 2012)

Magwart said:


> This looks like their team that put the classes together:
> Nutrition School Faculty, Holistic Health, Massage, Reiki, Sports Nutritionist, Pet Nutritionist, Master Herbalist, Aromatherapy, Detoxification Weight Loss, Yoga, Reflexology - Academy of Natural Health Sciences - Academy of Natural Health Sciences
> 
> No DVM in the bunch. In fact, most only have bachelor degrees in unrelated (non-animal) fields. There's only one advanced degree in the whole institute -- and it's the director with a doctorate in education. Some instructors look like they maybe don't even have college degrees -- including the one on the list who is apparently responsible for the pet nutrition program.
> ...


Excellent points, I was just looking at this too.

Definitely a bit of a concern. I'll give them a call tomorrow to ask some more questions and find out if there are other instructors involved with the courses.

I'm wondering if I'd just be better off getting a few books each from each of the topics I consider to be important and go from there, rather than tossing 2 grand away. 

There's another nutrition one I saw, but it doesn't look as comprehensive, and it doesn't have the holistic/natural components that I'm interested in:

Advanced Canine Nutrition Certificate (Cert.ACN) | Companion Animal Sciences Institute


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

You would be powerful as an advocate if you first developed a solid grounding in hard science, in order to help your customers navigate around the scam products and bad advice.

I have enormous respect for the (few) holistic practitioners who have solid science backgrounds and then layer on holistic modalities -- there's an integrative medicine/acupuncture expert on the faculty of the vet school here who falls into that category. 

To me, the holistic stuff is worthless if it comes from a "science is bad, nature is good" perspective, which is based on a false dichotomy and simplistic view of both nature and science. Holistic practices are at their most powerful if grounded in research.

I worry that by running to the holistic methods that you already agree with intuitively, you'll be steeped in cognitive dissonance and not be able to objectively assess them. Maybe start with some grounding in a few hard science classes (perhaps a few community college classes in physiology, zoology, and nutrition?), and then start reading the scientific literature underlying the claims of the holistic books that attract you. In other words, mine the footnotes and bibliographies for sources, and learn to be a good reader of scientific papers. _That_ is where the magic is.

Or plead with Carmen to apprentice you and send you a reading list. That would work too.


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## reck0n3r (Jul 29, 2012)

I actually totally agree with it being much more beneficial to have a background in the related sciences - I've got a background in engineering myself, and am always a science person first, before all else. 

That's also why I'm looking for a decent program that does ample service to both, and does a good job in explaining the interactions between both, rather than learning the hard sciences first, with the holistic aspect merely being "this works - use this" - that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a solid understanding in the mechanisms that go on.

Now, I'm thinking this is going to be a bit difficult to find - not because "science is bad" - there's a lot more going on than that, which I'd rather not get into here. But if there are any programs that anyone feels are conducive to what I'm looking for, it'd be appreciated.

I'm not looking for anything intense either, like on the level of an undergraduate degree, or anything. Just something that would help me have a solid understanding of what's going on inside the bodies of animals (ie: cats and dogs, in my case).

I'm planning on carrying some natural products for people to help boost their pets' health as well, but the primary purpose of the store is to sell and promote feeding our pets a raw food diet. I'm going to be expecting people to have pissed off/unaware vets giving me ****, so it is going to be important for me to know how to stand my ground in an intelligent, rational fashion, especially considering I haven't gone through the same rigorous (albeit tainted) education they have - which people know to be sorely lacking (deliberately or not) in actual nutrition studies.

Basically everything listed in that program above is something I'm very interested in.

Who is Carmen? Maybe I'll reach out. I'm fairly certain I could do this on my own just by scouring the various books available by DVMs and PhDs on related topics and round things out according to a plan I come up with myself, and mine the footnotes like you said, but it'd be nice if someone/someplace already has something available like the above, but from a place I know is trustworthy.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Carmen is an amazing source of information. She has spent alot of time educated and helping me to set up my raw good business. Having strong resources to check in with is invaluable. Moms2 is another fantastic source of information here. 

Good luck...you can do it!!


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## pame3584 (Jan 20, 2016)

Hi. While doing research online I came upon your post. I was wondering if you went ahead with the program? I'm very interested in it, for the same reasons as you but reluctant to paying a lot for something not worth it. I would appreciate any advice.


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