# 1st night of puppy class was a NIGHTMARE!



## Clarisha1 (Jan 3, 2017)

Hello all!
So my male puppy, Kobe, turned 4 months old last week. As a birthday present to him (haha) we attended our 1st puppy obedience class. Don't get me wrong. I love my dog! He is very smart, however, he absolutely showed his tail at class! He WOULD NOT stop barking at the other puppies during class! The trainer had to get a microphone so she could be heard over his barking. She tried to use him as an example of how to distract a puppy when they are exhibiting bad behavior by squirting him with a water bottle. He opened his mouth and caught the water spray. She then gave me a bottle of a water and vinegar solution to spray in front of his nose. He didn't like the smell, but it only shut him up for about 2 minutes, then he was back to barking at the other dogs. I wouldn't say he was exhibiting aggressive behavior, but he did lunge at a couple of other dogs. He's a big puppy at 46 pounds, so this could be intimidating to other owners and their dogs. He never showed his teeth or attempted to bite the other puppies. He was just a nuisance and distraction to the whole class. Another owner commented on how aggressive my puppy was (again I didn't see aggression). After the class, the trainer suggested I get a prong collar for him. I've never had to use one on a 4 month old puppy. Is he too young for this? He just became fully vaccinated last week, so I have not allowed him around many dogs. I am guessing it could be a lack of socialization? Any advice on what I can do to curb the barking so he is not such a distraction? Is a prong collar the way to go at this young of an age?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would work on his engagement with you. Have treats and reward him when he makes eye contact. Ask for positions and reward him when he does it. Soon this will become default behavior when you take him anywhere, ask for positions or 'watch me' and always reward him. When you go back to class do your thing, and try to keep his engagement with you. ANY time he looks at you mark it, reward him. 
After he actually knows his commands, when you ask him for something and he does not do it, then you can correct him. But don't correct him for looking at other dogs as that will backfire and he'll see that correction as coming from the other dog. 
Look up LAT
I recommend the "Control Unleashed" program. There is also a book geared toward puppies. http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB1242
I would not go to a prong just yet. Instead try to do what I described above. Prongs are great tools, but in this case, I would say not for now.


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## Robert Emerson (Feb 9, 2017)

What is the best way to go about Correcting your pup when it doesn't do what is asked of it?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Robert Emerson said:


> What is the best way to go about Correcting your pup when it doesn't do what is asked of it?


You can't correct for failure to do a behavior you haven't yet taught. This is baby, who got to. E out and about for the first time. He was being a douche puppy. It's ok. Work on the things you learned in class away from the crazy distraction of a group class.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I'm sure others will dissect your post better than my response....but...the spray bottle comment made me laugh.....I appreciate the notion of creating a moment where the dog is surprised/off balance...and the moment is seized....but if that instant is missed.....well.......not so much benefit I guess. All my GSDs have found great joy at the end of the garden hose ...sprayer attached.....willing to take the full blast.....so much motion...sensation....and a chance to work those snapping jaw desires.....I actually have to hold back on letting them have her way with the "spray bottle"....it looks like it should be painful....but it is pure joy for the dog.

Sounds like you have a starting point to measure your progress from.....creating engagement and appropriate adherence to obedience at his age....would probably help the problem....regardless of what corrections you choose....when the pup gives you what you want.....don't forget the positive impression you can also instill in your pup......it goes a long way.

SuperG


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## Clarisha1 (Jan 3, 2017)

SuperG said:


> I'm sure others will dissect your post better than my response....but...the spray bottle comment made me laugh.....I appreciate the notion of creating a moment where the dog is surprised/off balance...and the moment is seized....but if that instant is missed.....well.......not so much benefit I guess. All my GSDs have found great joy at the end of the garden hose ...sprayer attached.....willing to take the full blast.....so much motion...sensation....and a chance to work those snapping jaw desires.....I actually have to hold back on letting them have her way with the "spray bottle"....it looks like it should be painful....but it is pure joy for the dog.
> 
> Sounds like you have a starting point to measure your progress from.....creating engagement and appropriate adherence to obedience at his age....would probably help the problem....regardless of what corrections you choose....when the pup gives you what you want.....don't forget the positive impression you can also instill in your pup......it goes a long way.
> 
> SuperG


Kobe knows sit, down, stay, and roll over. He has known that since 8 weeks old. He wouldn't do a thing that I told him while in class. He acted like I was speaking another language. I wanted to hide under my chair, but unfortunately the poor puppy that belonged to the owner next to me was already there. When the trainer started teaching sit, she used him as an example of how to teach sit. He sat and looked at her like she was an idiot for teaching him something he already knew. All the while barking his head off the whole time he was in front of the class. Classic jackhole behavior. I'm not sure how to correct him while in class?? Cheese usually works for everything with him, but he wouldn't stop barking long enough to eat it. I was mortified.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

The class might not be a good setting for him. There is lot of stimulation and frustration because he can see dogs and not reach them. If it is treat only class, when he barks, quits and you treat, you are unintentionally teaching him to bark more. If the dogs aren't being kept busy, then he is likely bored. I took a class like that. I quit the class.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would do some training before you go to training. Some dogs are just very vocal. We have a four year old in club that never ever shuts up. He barks while heeling, whines when he is in a down, he seldom is quiet. The handler has had to learn to keep him under threshold and calmly, quietly work him. It has helped some, but he is one of those dogs that needs to leak to keep his brain. 

I agree that a group class may not be good for your pup right now. I'd look into tracking, as it is a very calming exercise and builds confidence, bond time as well as it is FREE!
Once your pup matures you can get him into a group setting again...in the meantime find a club of like minded trainers that you can work you pup with only one or two dogs in his space. If the group class is overly exciting, dogs feed into and off of that environment. 
I am not a fan of many of the pet classes because there is too much down time and the dogs start loading up....making their thinking worse. Or they get super bored and shut down.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

It sounds like nothing more than your dog being around other dogs and groups of people and not being used to it. I would just work on socializing him. Take him out and get him used to being around other dogs and groups. Sounds like no big deal to me. At 4 months he may be too young for a prong. Don't know your dog personally so can't answer that question. Does he know leave it. If so then buy a fur saver and when you walk past other dogs or people and he doesn't leave it when you tell him give him a minor correction. Should be able to fix this pretty easy. But if you let it go on it will become more ingrained and harder to stop when the dog gets older.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Clarisha1 said:


> Cheese usually works for everything with him,


Well.....you just found out it doesn't......take it to the next level...engagement and proofed obedience might get you further than any food scrap all on its own will. Work with your pup in new environments....up the ante...progressively....as success dictates.....I'm sure I'm not the only one who had a backyard Einstein.

SuperG


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Seems like every puppy class has one or two excited barkers.If the room is large enough it often helps to get as far away as possible from the other puppies and just walk,practice obedience or play, and keep his focus on you.Step outside a couple of times if possible.He may not learn what the instructor is teaching that day,but will learn how to focus on you despite distractions.Just my two cents!


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## Clarisha1 (Jan 3, 2017)

cdwoodcox said:


> It sounds like nothing more than your dog being around other dogs and groups of people and not being used to it. I would just work on socializing him. Take him out and get him used to being around other dogs and groups. Sounds like no big deal to me. At 4 months he may be too young for a prong. Don't know your dog personally so can't answer that question. Does he know leave it. If so then buy a fur saver and when you walk past other dogs or people and he doesn't leave it when you tell him give him a minor correction. Should be able to fix this pretty easy. But if you let it go on it will become more ingrained and harder to stop when the dog gets older.


He does know leave it. I will give this a try. Thank you!


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

And again, Dogma has it exactly. When I have puppies like this I just tell the owner to work with the puppy on the side of the training area. Often it's excitement barking, there are all these dogs and puppies and he's excited. It often takes one or two classes before they settle down. I have a five year old GSD in a current class that did this. The third class he was able to stay in and now you'd never know he is the same dog. I have the owners work on getting the dog/puppy to focus on them. I also tell them to work on it at home, taking the dog or puppy out and working on focus. To take them places they haven't already been taking them, new places. Your puppy will catch on, right now, he's all emotion, excitement.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Ugh. When my pup was about that age, we were in the first obedience class (after puppy class). Most of the 6 weeks of classes we spent against the wall with me trying to get him to pay attention. Being up with the rest of the dogs was just too close and he lost his mind. He didn't bark but the movement of the other dogs was just too irresistible and he constantly tried to get to them. He knew the commands. We used the class to get him used to working around distractions.


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## lalabug (Oct 20, 2016)

dogma13 said:


> Seems like every puppy class has one or two excited barkers.If the room is large enough it often helps to get as far away as possible from the other puppies and just walk,practice obedience or play, and keep his focus on you.Step outside a couple of times if possible.He may not learn what the instructor is teaching that day,but will learn how to focus on you despite distractions.Just my two cents!


Really agree with this. We just 'graduated' from our obedience classes and there were def one or two classes where I had to excuse myself to walk Ghost around the perimeter of the lot just to get her away and refocused for a minute. It seemed to really help when she was exercised a bit before we went to class - got out any of that extra GSD energy.  That's just my own experience obviously - she was never really a 'barker' at other pups but there were absolutely a few times where she was straining to try and get to other pups to sniff and play and jump around - instead of focusing on me and what we were doing in class. I worked with her a lot on being reactive. Treats worked. She has gotten WAY better and is just shy of 5 months old.
It also really helped that my trainer provided handouts at the end of every class, with everything we had gone over that class, what to review that we had worked on in previous classes, and one or two goals to be working on. This way if your dog was just acting an ass and you had to step away and 'miss' something, you could at least have the handout to look back on while you are working on training your dog at home or away from the class setting. Good luck and keep working at it!!


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

You have a lively puppy! 
I wouldn't use a prong or a squirt gun on such a young dog, and will second Control Unleashed to gain some concepts on how to handle over-excitement.
Is the class large enough that you can gain some space? Are you allowed to keep your puppy near a door, corridor or exit, and try to work him by rewarding acceptable (or relatively acceptable) behaviour with your position. IE. if he barks to get close to dogs, stay outside of the room until there is a moment of quiet, and then step in, and have a partner with you to remain in class, listen and take notes.
I took a 'reactive dog' class with my guy once and had to insist on doing this; if he got barky, I left the building, worked with him outdoors where he could concentrate, then brought him in again. (it was a different circumstance, an adult dog, different motivation) but dealing with it is much the same. An over-stimulated dog or puppy cannot learn or concentrate or even enjoy an offered reward, so job one is to get them to place/circumstance where they can think kinda sorta straight vs brain wheels spinning 100 mph.


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## goofygsd (Feb 2, 2017)

You've gotten some great advice. You dog knows those set commands in areas of low distraction, when you are the most interesting thing and he wants to work for you. Now you have to work on desensitizing him from the puppy class environment. When you are in class you are no longer the most interesting thing. Try taking him to the side away from the other dogs. Bring a toy or treats or both depending on what motivates him. Most of all don't get frustrated, he will sense this and is caused more overstimulation. Puppy class is supposed to be fun. So take him to the side and play and have fun. Also if he has too much energy to burn he will release it in the manner described. Try exercising him before the class so he's tired.


Rachael & Solo from KS


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

This happens.

What helped me (over time, don't expect your puppy to get this immediately, he is only 4 months old) was to first teach what "bark" meant, and then introduce the concept of "no bark." My girl knew "no" and was able to put together the meaning of the correction, "no bark!" As soon as she quit for like a second, she was praised warmly for a "good no bark!" If she started up again, she was reminded. Lather, rinse, repeat. I did issue collar corrections or would gently grasp her muzzle and point it down so she was eye to eye with me as I said firmly, "No bark!" The comprehension was there fast, the impulse control not so much, but they will get it with consistent practice.

I think a lot does depend on your puppy and your approach. I had a tough, resilient puppy who couldn't be bothered with redirection (doing what she wanted was more reinforcing than whatever treat or task I had), so I took more of a Tiger Mom approach with her. If I had a softer dog, I don't think I would have been nearly so, shall we say definite with her.


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## Traveler's Mom (Sep 24, 2012)

The others have already given you very good suggestions so I won't go there. What I will tell you is that your pup sounds just like mine when we went to our first class. BUT!! At least your pup didn't poop in the middle of the group like mine did! I could have died with embarrassment.:crying:
The class was full of a bunch of little dogs and here's mine- 40+lbs and there was no way anyone could have missed seeing his "comment" on the class.

My post is only to show you that we all have had those moments and managed to suck up and keep training our rowdy fur babies. It's all worth it in the end. We all live thru it.

For the record, I ended up finding an experienced owner who trained on the side. He had a big backyard and every Saturday a few of us owners would go there. Not having so many dogs in such a small area really made a big difference.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I say, stick it out. Group classes, so long as they are all leashed dogs -- no puppy free-for-all, is EXACTLY what he needs. I bet the second class will be better than the first. 

This time your dog was the one being the pain. That's hard to take. But, whether those people realize it or not, it could have been their puppy that did exactly the same thing. This was a response to being in a completely foreign country and not knowing the language. Next week, he will probably be a whole lot better. I have actually seen this happen.

I am not a fan of squirting a dog, sitting them behind a curtain, spraying them with an aversive spray. Working this week on WATCH or LOOK, with lots of treats, and putting a little distance where you can, distracting when possible, taking a break if necessary during the class; and at the same time, outside of class in a quiet area, training basic commands with lots of praise and treats, will help too. Then instead of telling your dog, "NO, QUIET!", you can tell him. "SIT, DOWN, WATCH," and so forth, and praising and treating when he does it, when you are not actually following the trainer's instructions. 

Always try to set your dog up to succeed, so you can praise him for it. The alternative is to set him up to fail and clobber him for it. Both are currently used training methods. Both are effective. 

Taking the dog out of classes and privately training him will not get him used to the presence of other controlled dogs. We aren't expecting him to interact and enjoy the other dogs. We are expecting him to be civil when other dogs are around minding their own business. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. 

The first day of classes with Quinnie I think was horrendous. She barked and barked, and I took her outside several times. It was so embarrassing. The second day of class (1 week later) were not so bad, some barking, and then fine. The third day was no problem. On the last day of classes -- probably my second tour of classes with her, not sure, my trainer was really impressed with her and she had recently lost her shepherd. She said something, and I told her I still have a few of her full sisters (next litter) available. She asked, "are they like her?" Stick with it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Check this out:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/629266-six-weeks-puppy-classes.html

It may help. All dogs are different. But my dog went from Tazmanian Devil to a simple werewolf in just one week, without any spraying of water or anything else. She just needed to process it. Embarrassing for me sure. Kind of like having kids. Sometimes they do that to you.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Your pup sounds like a lot of fun. Stick out the class. It will get better. Maybe look into a different type of class next time. I loved the class I took Shelby to. It was in a gym. Lots of room. We were mostly all doing something at the same time. The dogs didn't have much opportunity to focus on the other dogs. They learned pretty quickly to focus on us. Homework was helpful. Shelby did great during all the classes. She exceeded my expectations - until graduation night. Shelby decided that would be the perfect night to blow me off. Aren't they great? lol!


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## Clarisha1 (Jan 3, 2017)

Thank you everyone for the great advice! Our class is in a gym at K9 University. There were 17 puppies there last week, and Kobe was definitely the life of the party! It was a good point that at least my puppy wasn't the puppy that pooped in the middle of class. That public pooping miniature poodle belonged to the woman who kept snarling about my aggressive german shepherd ? Hopefully week 2's class (tomorrow night) is better than the 1st. I asked Kobe if tomorrow night's class is going to be better than last week's and his reply (via picture) is posted below...


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

hate spray bottles, if the "trainer" recommended a prong at 4 months then I would find a new trainer.


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## brookwoodgirl (May 5, 2016)

Clarisha1 said:


> Thank you everyone for the great advice! Our class is in a gym at K9 University. There were 17 puppies there last week, and Kobe was definitely the life of the party! It was a good point that at least my puppy wasn't the puppy that pooped in the middle of class. That public pooping miniature poodle belonged to the woman who kept snarling about my aggressive german shepherd ? Hopefully week 2's class (tomorrow night) is better than the 1st. I asked Kobe if tomorrow night's class is going to be better than last week's and his reply (via picture) is posted below...


Wow, your fluff pup is about as far from an "aggressive" GSD as one can be.

But I understand. When I took my last GSD to puppy class, every other dog owner there was terrified of her simply because she was a GSD - and she was the sweetest, best behaved (we had been working at home and she had a jaw dropping rapid recall, sit and finish even at that age) dog there. Still everyone shunned us as if she were a velociraptor. Literally cringed and turned away, were afraid of her and for their pups for no reason due to her, just breed related. So I understand. 

I didn't go the puppy class with my current pup (now nine months), I go to a privately organized puppy play group - not sure if that is better or worse, but it is awfully convenient.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Oh the fluffiness!! So cute. If I had it to do over, I probably would have skipped the puppy play time we had in puppy class. In the class, there were 2 GSD puppies, Varik and a little feisty female. As long as those two played together, things were fine. Otherwise, Varik was wayyyyy too much for the rest of the puppies, even the ones that were older than him and just as big.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

What a terrifying looking puppy. You best get rid of him. Send him to me. I'll PM you my address. lol! He's going to be fine. My hound mix, Natty Boh pooped at puppy class once. Shelby would never do such a thing. HA!

Oh - and just stay away from poodle people.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Your pup is a fluff ball of cuteness. Ah yes just like little kids our pets can keep us humble as well - lol! We brought home our Gsd pup home Luna at 12 weeks and did not have her yet a week and put her in puppy class. She had so incredibly adjusted to our home right away and thought she would be okay for puppy class- I should of given her more time to adjust. She barked at many pups I was surprised, embarrassed as I was looking forward to showing off my new pup. She was excited mostly but a mix of unsure I assume as she did want to investigate the other dogs as Max never did(Max our adult Gsd who is dog reactive) . I could spent my days with her focusing on me in class like I had done with max our dog reactive dog at home but I choose to skip the puppy class route and decided other ways to socialize her with other dogs by have a few one on one puppy play sessions and met a few adult dogs and pups from our sheep herding trainer/breeder I knew which I'm very greatful. It seemed to put any unsureness to rest. We just had fun and go to different places to socialize. Skipping puppy class did not hinder Luna at all. I take her out to many places she is incredible sweet loves people/kids has a few pup friends and she has not barked at any dogs we see out except for one on the beach but she wanted to play. Our adult Gsd Max is dog reactive- we did the puppy classes in a controlled setting where every pup was well behaved and no crazy interaction with a bunch pups. he did not have any experiences with pups outside of that except one bad experience with my moms dog. I made sure things were done different since did miss out on that window of have a pleasant experiences with other pups/ dogs with Max. I plan to do classes with Luna soon she will be 6 months. We doing nose works and herding with Max I can't wait to do tracking and really want to do trailing with Max. So just to be clear I am not saying skipping puppy class is a meaning to end of all classes. You just have to figure what works for you both.


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## I~Luv~Maggie (Feb 20, 2017)

Definitely stay away from poodle people lol. I took Maggs to the beach and she was the only shepherd there! Everyone wanted to play with other peoples dogs but when they saw Maggie they told their kids "Stay with me!" lol. Maggie would never hurt anyone just like that if im around and she knows im not scared of the person. Like brookwoodgirl said some people just have breed issues where they assume that just because GSDs are known to protect their owners that it ruins the whole breed.


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## Gossamer (Feb 17, 2017)

hey, at least your dog did something at puppy class. This was what Comet did most of the time. One instructor even asked me if I drugged my dog because he was so calm. Eventually, he started to enjoy things and ended up being the "best student" in the class. But other dogs would run up to him, bark and lick and he'd just sit there and look at them incredulously.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

17 puppies!!! Am I the only one that thinks that is too many for one class? Overwhelming for sure. Just get your puppy out more but remember not to overdue it. Even just 5 minutes someplace before the "bad" behavior comes out. Keep experiences positive. If you can leave the area and come back frequently to keep your puppy from being overwhelmed do it. This is your puppy and right now every experience, good or bad, are going to have significant impact on its life. No free play is needed. I did one on one training with my now 10 yr old when she was very young. As she grew and could handle longer training classes, we joined a group class. Also I have found show handling classes great for just getting out. They are usually drop in type. Nothing you sign up for ahead of time. No play time involved. Dogs of different breeds and ages.


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## Breaker's mom (May 27, 2008)

Wow, I am facing this next month. These sorts of posts don't give me a lot of hope. And attempts at humor (re crawling under a chair) seems more like survival techniques to me.  I have never taken a dog to obedience classes and wanted to try it. Thought it might be fun and I could learn something. Plus, I thought it was a good environment to socialize my pup. But I know there is going to be ummm...lets say loudness. Not sure of the instructors experience with shepherds per se, she did mention having one in class like that before so I am hoping the pup proves me wrong, at least partially. .I am also hoping there is elbow room and everybody else keeps their pups away too. His size and head halter should help with that.

We have been granted entrance to the first two classes and if he is acting up to much we are being excused and refunded. I have also be asked to put him in a head collar. She seemed to think it was best for the rest of the class participants as an 8 month old barking and lunging pup could scare the crab out of the rest of them. 

I figure a couple of nights of complete embarrassment aren't going to kill me and hopefully they have chairs.

I will implement a lot of the suggestions here but I suspect it won't be easy.

Maybe we need a "dis-obedient class support group.


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## Clarisha1 (Jan 3, 2017)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> What a terrifying looking puppy. You best get rid of him. Send him to me. I'll PM you my address. lol! He's going to be fine. My hound mix, Natty Boh pooped at puppy class once. Shelby would never do such a thing. HA!
> 
> Oh - and just stay away from poodle people.



Go ahead and send me your address. If he acts a fool at tonight's class, expect a box in a couple of days! LOL! I am kidding. I couldn't give the rascal up. He can be a pain, but I love him for it.


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## Clarisha1 (Jan 3, 2017)

Breaker's mom said:


> Wow, I am facing this next month. These sorts of posts don't give me a lot of hope. And attempts at humor (re crawling under a chair) seems more like survival techniques to me.  I have never taken a dog to obedience classes and wanted to try it. Thought it might be fun and I could learn something. Plus, I thought it was a good environment to socialize my pup. But I know there is going to be ummm...lets say loudness. Not sure of the instructors experience with shepherds per se, she did mention having one in class like that before so I am hoping the pup proves me wrong, at least partially. .I am also hoping there is elbow room and everybody else keeps their pups away too. His size and head halter should help with that.
> 
> We have been granted entrance to the first two classes and if he is acting up to much we are being excused and refunded. I have also be asked to put him in a head collar. She seemed to think it was best for the rest of the class participants as an 8 month old barking and lunging pup could scare the crab out of the rest of them.
> 
> ...



Your puppy may be the complete opposite of mine once you get in class. In order to be in this class, puppies have too be under 20 weeks. Don't let my trials and tribulations deter you. There are 7 shepherds in the class, and mine just decided to act like a pain on this given night. Hopefully tonight is better! I also agree that 17 puppies is way too many! I agree that we need a disobedient class support group. :grin2:


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Breaker's mom said:


> Wow, I am facing this next month. These sorts of posts don't give me a lot of hope. And attempts at humor (re crawling under a chair) seems more like survival techniques to me.  I have never taken a dog to obedience classes and wanted to try it. Thought it might be fun and I could learn something. Plus, I thought it was a good environment to socialize my pup. But I know there is going to be ummm...lets say loudness. Not sure of the instructors experience with shepherds per se, she did mention having one in class like that before so I am hoping the pup proves me wrong, at least partially. .I am also hoping there is elbow room and everybody else keeps their pups away too. His size and head halter should help with that.
> 
> We have been granted entrance to the first two classes and if he is acting up to much we are being excused and refunded. I have also be asked to put him in a head collar. She seemed to think it was best for the rest of the class participants as an 8 month old barking and lunging pup could scare the crab out of the rest of them.
> 
> ...


Set your expectations low. That way, you will be pleasantly surprised. Works for me. :smile2:


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

vomlittlehaus said:


> 17 puppies!!! Am I the only one that thinks that is too many for one class? Overwhelming for sure. Just get your puppy out more but remember not to overdue it. Even just 5 minutes someplace before the "bad" behavior comes out. Keep experiences positive. If you can leave the area and come back frequently to keep your puppy from being overwhelmed do it. This is your puppy and right now every experience, good or bad, are going to have significant impact on its life. No free play is needed. I did one on one training with my now 10 yr old when she was very young. As she grew and could handle longer training classes, we joined a group class. Also I have found show handling classes great for just getting out. They are usually drop in type. Nothing you sign up for ahead of time. No play time involved. Dogs of different breeds and ages.


I missed this. That's a lot of puppies.

I think our class was limited to maybe 8? It was kept smallish. I feel like to accommodate 17 puppies and give everyone the attention and coaching they need at that level, you really ought to have about 3 instructors on hand, in which case why not split it up into three classes of 6.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Questions to ask before signing up for puppy class with your GSD, and the answers to look for:

Q:How many puppies are in the group and how many instructors/helpers?
IA: No more than 8 puppies and there will be at least one helper beside the instructor.
AA: 6-8 puppies. 
UA: The more the merrier. 

Q: What is the age limit for the puppies in this group? 
IA: Puppies must be 16 weeks or under to be in this group at the start of the class.
AA: We accept puppies up to six months.
UA: Usually we like puppies to be under 10 months old, but if we can't get enough for a class we might have a few young adults in the group.

Q: Do you allow a period for puppies to socialize together during the class?
IA: No, there is no puppy free-for-all in the group. If puppies sniff each other while on leash and both owners are ok with that, we do not disallow that, but beyond puppy classes, it is discouraged. 
AA: No, some of the owners can stay for 5 minutes or so at the end and let their pups socialize, it isn't encouraged. 
UA: Yes, we start out with 15 minutes where pups play together off-lead. 

Key: Q -- Question, IA -- Ideal Answer, AA -- Acceptable Answer for most puppies, UA -- unacceptable answer. 

There are other answers you can ask. Puppy kindergarten should not be aversive. There is plenty of time to hone your training methods, but I would rather hear them say they are rewards-based at this stage. Prong collars and squirt cans just have no place on the first day of puppy classes. Puppy classes ought to be fun for you and the puppy, humbling sometimes. If you feel something doesn't seem right, step in front of your pup if necessary, and say, "No, we aren't going to do that." Remember that this person sees your puppy 1 hour for a few weeks. She doesn't have to live with the consequences of rough or ignorant handling. You will.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

17 is a lot? Now I know why we dropped out. Ours had 20 dogs. Anyone with a dog under 30 lbs could repeat the class up to age 1. The next class I took had 45. My dog couldn't handle either one. They had free play at the end with leashes on, but anyone with a small dog could take the leash off.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> 17 is a lot? Now I know why we dropped out. Ours had 20 dogs. Anyone with a dog under 30 lbs could repeat the class up to age 1. The next class I took had 45. My dog couldn't handle either one. They had free play at the end with leashes on, but anyone with a small dog could take the leash off.


Yes, I would drop out of that crap. So some 30 pound 10 month old dog could rush a 12 week old puppy? That's nuts. 

Wait, I just let Quinnie (2 in October, 55.5 pounds) play with Kojak. Well, I know them both and supervised, and all went well other than not paying attention to his desire to get through the babygate to go outside. For this reason we keep a bottle of Nature's Miracle on the premises.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

That's nuts. The puppy class at my training club takes up to 12 with all pups having to be under 4 months old. That's still a lot. A lot of times there are club members hanging around that jump in and help. They've now started a puppy 4-8 month class that can have up to 10 or 12 in it. I doubt there is any puppy play involved at that stage.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

selzer said:


> Yes, I would drop out of that crap. So some 30 pound 10 month old dog could rush a 12 week old puppy? That's nuts.
> 
> Wait, I just let Quinnie (2 in October, 55.5 pounds) play with Kojak. Well, I know them both and supervised, and all went well other than not paying attention to his desire to get through the babygate to go outside. For this reason we keep a bottle of Nature's Miracle on the premises.


There is only one puppy class at a time and they have so many on the waiting list they upped the numbers. It wasn't bad with my rescues. They adapted. But a high drive WL dog was overstimulated and bored, which led to frustration. One thing I found out, though, is that early socialization in class was not necessary. I did other types of socialization and now that we are sliding into maturity, it's all falling into place.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Haven't read this whole thread but just went through the same a little over a year ago. Went to two puppy classes and was done. My pup was too over stimulated in that environment and an older puppy bit her hard during free play. Done and got my money back. I'll never do that again with a GSD. If your puppy's parents have sound temperaments your puppy doesn't need to meet anyone or any dogs. Just observe and show the world is neutral.

Your puppy is too young for a pinch collar IMO. I started with one at that age and won't do that again either. Thank you Lisa Maze. I don't believe it's fair to correct a puppy that young that doesn't fully understand. The pinch just turned into a management tool for me. Flat collar, no handle lines and keep directing and rewarding with food. The puppy should ideally get 1/2 of its daily intake from your hand during training and directing to come, follow and stay with you. JMO.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Not sure if it was mentioned or if I missed it, but you can also try to keep him very hungry the day of class and use class time to feed him exclusively that day.


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## Clarisha1 (Jan 3, 2017)

I wanted to post an update from tonight's class. First, to answer someone's question, there is no off leash play allowed during class. My fiancé went to class with us tonight (he couldn't make it to last week's class). While I do the majority of the work when it comes to our puppy (I feed, walk, train, and take him to vet visits), the puppy tends to listen to my fiancé a little better than he does me (even though he spends a fraction of the time training him that I do.) There were only 12 puppies in class tonight, and I could feel the stares as we walked in to class. Kobe barked at 1 dog in the parking lot, got a verbal correction from my fiancé, and that was the only correction he received the whole night. He acted like a COMPLETELY different puppy tonight. No barking, pulling, lunging, or whining. He sat or laid quietly in front of our chairs, and performed every command given to him like a pro. He hardly acknowledged the other dogs in the room. I have been practicing "look at me" all week (a suggestion by another poster), and it worked like a charm to re-focus him the couple of times I felt he may lose his calmness. The trainer jokingly asked if I brought the same puppy to class that I had last week, and a couple of other participants commented on the difference in his behavior this week. He was given treats frequently (I tried that to no avail last week), and I couldn't have been more pleased with his behavior tonight. THANK YOU everyone for your fantastic advice! I'm sure his "daddy" being there with us this week played a small part, however I am still one proud momma!


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

Ahh I glad it went well.

At our puppy class the first week there was a little girl who barked non stop - the next week she was fine and some other puppy decided to be the one who misbehaved. On the 3rd week it was my puppy's turn.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

That's great news!Thanks for the update.Good job you guys!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

great update! What exercises does this group class teach? Do they suggest the pup should focus on the handler first? Do you ever do restrained recalls?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Clarisha1 said:


> , the puppy tends to listen to my fiancé a little better than he does me (even though he spends a fraction of the time training him that I do.)


First....I'm glad to hear of the marked improvement regarding your pup's conduct at the recent class.....

As far as your comment above......it speaks volumes and seems to be a common denominator with many households and the selectivity of a dog's "hearing".

I might investigate why your pup tends to listen to your fiancé a bit better.....for some it can seem a bit counterintuitive...especially since you mentioned you do the majority of the "work".

SuperG


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## lalabug (Oct 20, 2016)

Great update!! So glad you saw some improvement! Keep at it!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Keep doing most of the work. As you improve your consistency and timing, it will pay off, and you will probably have a dog that listens to you as well if not better than your fiancé. 

Good luck. That first night of puppy class is just intimidating to some pups. Also, some puppies act up MORE if they are tired and some less. Know your puppy. Running the boston marathon before class tonight will work with some dogs, but other dogs will be so tired, and fighting sleep so hard, that they will be monsters. Kind of like over-tired toddlers. My trainer suggests working with the dogs every day, except the day of class. 

Puppies have the attention span of a flea. We have a rule to try something 3 times, and then move on. We keep exercises light and fun. And we work the body as well as the brain. 

Good luck with your puppy. It sounds like you have a fun puppy. plan on signing up for classes after puppy classes. 4-5 sets of classes for the first year you have him sounds about right -- that gets you through the majority of puppy stages. Then it just depends how far you want to take your puppy. Once a week to dog classes up until the dog is 2 years, should net you a great, well socialized dog that will have a solid foundation, be able to get obedience or rally titles -- not necessarily something you don't care about. The exercises that you work toward, at least in novice, are just being a well-mannered dog in any situation. A dog with a Rally novice title should be able to walk comfortably on a lead, perform basic commands, go around obstacles, change pace with you, etc. A dog with an novice obedience titled, CD, can walk around people, be examined by a stranger, will come when called, will stay in a line on a sit or down, will walk properly on lead or off lead. It isn't stuff that is out of the ordinary for making life with a pet dog pleasurable. 

A well-trained dog is a pleasure to own. It is not an accident. It doesn't happen over night. you don't have to be in a hurry. If you just plod along at my slow pace, you have a great dog before you know it, and you had a great time getting there. 

When your dog is two, and you have been having lots of fun and getting awesome comments from everybody about how well-behaved he is, there are all kinds of other things you can set your sights on. Agility is fun for you and the dog, if your dog is athletic, great outlet. They will learn to walk on a raised platform and go over an A-frame, and walk up a teeter totter, go through tunnels -- not things you need your dog to do but stuff that can be very fun for both of you. 

Or there is dock diving, tracking -- nosework, advanced obedience, and other stuff. 

As an added bonus, after the 2nd or 3rd set of classes, you might find some dog-people that are also serious about having fun with their dogs and exercising their brains and honing their instincts. Sometimes you can journey on the path to the perfect dog with other people for a while. 

You survived the very humbling first night of puppy classes. As did your puppy. Now the future is limitless. The thing to do is to evaluate your puppy along the way and find those things that you think the pair of you will excel at. 

Poor Babsy, the AKC does not offer a couch-potato title.


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## Clarisha1 (Jan 3, 2017)

onyx'girl said:


> great update! What exercises does this group class teach? Do they suggest the pup should focus on the handler first? Do you ever do restrained recalls?



Week 1 we worked on sit and started teaching heel. Out of 17 puppies, only 4 knew how to sit prior to the start of the class. Week 2 we did more heeling, and we worked on the "down" command from a sit. We also worked on what to do for puppies that jump up on us and how to help with puppy mouthiness. Next week we will begin working on recall. Each class the trainer also takes questions offers suggestions on how to curb bad puppy behaviors (yesterday's hot topic was how to stop a puppy from eating poop). I am curious to see how Kobe does with the recall exercises.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Normally, the GSDs desire to be with their owner makes them superstars at recall. Normally. And then there are the stays with those easy-recall dogs.


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## GSDTuckie (Feb 23, 2017)

Clarisha1 said:


> Week 1 we worked on sit and started teaching heel. Out of 17 puppies, only 4 knew how to sit prior to the start of the class. Week 2 we did more heeling, and we worked on the "down" command from a sit. We also worked on what to do for puppies that jump up on us and how to help with puppy mouthiness. Next week we will begin working on recall. Each class the trainer also takes questions offers suggestions on how to curb bad puppy behaviors (yesterday's hot topic was how to stop a puppy from eating poop). I am curious to see how Kobe does with the recall exercises.


Hi Clarisha1. I've also recently went through the "nightmare" 1st class.  It's been about 4 weeks since your last comment. I'm curious to know how things fared since then.


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## cherub737 (May 31, 2010)

"Well, you put a smile on my face tonight...he sounds like a lot of fun! He is cute indeed. Personally I would not like a squirt bottle with either water or vinegar. Your hand should be a positive place for the dog and your relationship building is the most important concept. Absolutely EVERYTHING you do is training...and it will greatly help you down the road if you can stay in remembrance that everything you do shapes the dog. I don't think your first night was a failure...I actually think you gleaned a lot of information about your pup (and the trainer) that will help you make a game plan. One of the things I did to help my pup was to be outside in the parking lot by the training classes or pet supply place. I worked from a distance and rewarded for the "look at me" If I had success at 13 feet away and tried for 10 ft with his being over stimulated I would simply go back to the 13 feet again. When I did this I did not feed him beforehand and used high level treats ie I would make a few London Broils very pink and slice into chips (freezing in small batches). So the pup never had this any other time and was hungry and he did stay with me for sure.  The thing you don't want to do is correct him for looking at the other dog...quickly looking and turning right back to you is OK...you just want to get him so saturated that the other dogs become like pieces of furniture to ignore and you are the best party in town. If my guy got distracted I would give him a tiny pop on the side and quickly take 2 steps back with high pitched happy sounds...when he came to me I fed, fed, fed. "WOW..Super" The other thing you can do is ask the trainer if she has any small sized WELL BEHAVED adult classes and put him behind a gate while the other dogs work..feed him as they pass when he is in the calm state. I also started the board / klimb table very early on...so he knew to stay on that board and that is was where his highest rewards came from. Then I would take the klimb table with me to grocery stores, outside training areas, baseball fields etc. he already knew this so control was partially prebuilt in. I also did a lot of impulse control games...put dog in a down, you lie next to him, put a pile of food on the floor in front of him...as he goes to lunge for the food cover it with your hand and say "leave it" When he is able to wait even seconds, flick one piece to him and say "yes" to mark it or click. Quickly you will see him learning to use self control. Then sit him holding the collar...toss food out in front of him and say "wait" Then say "ready....get set....go"--and on the "go" release him and race him to the food. High pitch happy "Whoo Hoo" "Good Boy" make it a game. Run away from him in the opposite direction and he will chase you...then feed, feed, feed. Repeat. I still use "ready set go" for so many things. Even now when I sit him at the track I drop a piece of food in front of him and he will not touch it but wait silently and focused...then I say "get it" and, as he goes down, I say "zuch" It helps with the articles too. In protection work he has to have full control in the sit (everywhere)...zero noise...then I say "geiblaut" and he instantly explodes in barking...so all this self control from these baby games...the board is used in the blind so the dog cannot go off onto the sleeve prematurely...again these baby things gave the picture for later on. As a pup I always fed his meals from my hand...nothing for free. And I feed raw LOL But he would stay on my hand, food to nose, in heel position without the command. Or I would do circle right, circle left for later as he comes into basic position...or food into the dog for the down...so all his eating is in training but for him is just play. Also "crate games" For me 17 is way too many for my type of pup which is like yours...8 or 10 maybe. But if you do finish in that class it would be wise to train ahead of time to wear him down a bit. Sometimes I would use a toy if he moved away from me in the side yard. I would swing the toy to get his attention and he would come flying...as I gave him the toy I would take both arms around his body and say "come into my arms" and hold him and soft stroke just two seconds...now he can be across the yard and I will say "come into my arms" and he will fly into the hole of my joined arms...I use this now in protection. When he gets the sleeve and wants to run off with it I say that and he comes in and I soft stoke while he holds the sleeve. My guy is 26 mo now...I read your post and thought how fast this time goes. So the best I can say to you is always have a game plan and always be able to control your environment. Because they are always training and either learning the beneficial things or the things that will later grow into real problems. Good luck I truly hope you will keep us posted on this fun boy! I liked that you did not seem to get flustered with him!


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## Clarisha1 (Jan 3, 2017)

Hello all! To update everyone, Kobe actually graduated puppy class 2 weeks ago! He even got an award for being voted by the staff as "most likely to succeed in letting you know exactly what he thinks about it" (since he was so vocal during the first week of class). He relinquished his title of worst puppy in the class (thankfully) . After the 1st week he settled down TREMENDOUSLY. He wasn't a perfect angel the rest of the time, but he was nowhere as bad as week 1. My next step is to get him into basic obedience class (treats are not alllowed in this class so it will be tough). Kobe is super intelligent and he loves to please. He can be a mess, but I love his spirit! Kobe is a very large shepherd. He isn't fat, but has a very big frame. At 5 months and 62 pounds, it is imperative that he listens and is obedient. We live in tornado alley (Oklahoma City), and my dream is for him to be able to help find and recover tornado victims both human and animal. I have to get him used to working with and being around other dogs. Thank you for all of the great advice and encouragement! I will post a picture of us after graduation. I swear it looks like he is smiling in it!


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## cherub737 (May 31, 2010)

OMG!!!! He is sooooooo cute! Congrats to you...you are sticking with it and did an awesome job with him! Very sad to see that no food reward allowed  Nearly every top trainer that I have attended workshops with uses food straight thru, esp in the foundation stages as it allows for precision. Then toy...all motivational. My big boy two dogs ago I did the RH with (S&R) and we did a lot of food in The OB and either food or toy as they came in to the victim. Good luck with all you do, He is quite lovely and I hope you will keep us posted!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

cherub737 said:


> OMG!!!! He is sooooooo cute! Congrats to you...you are sticking with it and did an awesome job with him! Very sad to see that no food reward allowed  Nearly every top trainer that I have attended workshops with uses food straight thru, esp in the foundation stages as it allows for precision. Then toy...all motivational. My big boy two dogs ago I did the RH with (S&R) and we did a lot of food in The OB and either food or toy as they came in to the victim. Good luck with all you do, He is quite lovely and I hope you will keep us posted!


Treats, like correction collars, are really only to help begin the process of communication. By the end of the first class, you should not require food for everything your dog does right. Treats should be successfully phased out. Or perhaps used to train new behaviors if you lure the behavior. 

How do people use clickers? The load the clicker -- click, treat; click, treat and soon the dog knows that the click means a treat. And then they know that the click means he did the right thing. It does not mean he is going to get a treat every single time there is a click forever. 

Well, in good training, you load praise with treats, and then you phase out the treats and use praise alone to communicate to the dog that he did good. 

For working dogs especially, dogs don't work for treats. The dog has to have the drive to work, and that can be for a reward, like a tug toy. But miniscule pieces of cheese or kibble are not practical when you are searching through rubble to find people. The dog either has the drive to work or not. If he does, working with you and praise is reward for such dogs. I agree with knocking out treat rewards, and using praise to reward the dog. After class, you can stop and McDonalds and get him a cheeseburger plain, or better yet, play with that tug toy, and use that only for "You Done Real Good" rewards.


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