# Reactivty in the house & yard



## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

We adopted our rescued GSD about 2.5 yrs ago. 

He has been through basic obedience, earned his CGC, is very good at dog parks, out on the leash when we met people & kids and is a very good boy outside of the house and yard. He is reserved when we are out walking but he won't react and at the dog park he will go up to some people if they call his name. 

The issue I am dealing with and I am hoping for some advice. He has no problems with my daughter, my son, myself or my DH....he knows exactly who is walking in the house, he knows our footsteps by heart. He could be in his crate and he knows and he also knows if it is not us. 

I expect him to bark when people come in but once they are in he has a hard time dealing with the fact that they are staying and will get very anxious and will sit in a spot where he can watch them but if they try and get up he will get up and bark and sometimes charge or nip at them. 

We had a behaviorist come about a year ago and gave us advice on treating him and having people treat him but it hasn't been working because once the treats are gone then he is back in this frame of mind. 

The part that really bothers me the most is below....

My daughter has a friend who Sonny has known since we got him so when she comes over he will bark at her and then we say Sonny it is Maria and he is OK but then out of no where yet again she went to get up to go into the kitchen and he charged and grabbed her shorts. I can't understand why he choses to do this. He knows her who she is, and she can even hug him and love him out of the house. This is unacceptable behavior. 

Unless it is the 4 people he lives with he can't seem to accept anyone else in the house and he gets so anxiety ridden. 

We have been thinking about a muzzle so at least if he is out we can work on it with treats and positiveness and know that no one will get bit. If we go this route what would be a good muzzle?

I am sure there is more so feel free to ask me questions and I will try and answer them. 

Thank you for your feedback.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Do you practice NILIF with him? He needs to know that you are the ones in control of the household comings and goings, not him. NILIF is a great start in setting up that structure.
This is to me, a character trait of the GSD, they are aware constantly of the surroundings and many feel the need to alert, but some go overboard because they feel they are "threatened" or need to take control.
I have two females that will bark when kids friends come and go(teenagers, and some are new to the dogs) Kacie is the worst and gets Onyx going, then Onyx corrects Kacie when we tell them to quiet.
Karlo my 15 month pup, who is from stable wonderful lines, doesn't feel the need to bark. He observes first, before reacting, which to me is how a GSD should be...
Because many of the kids friends are new to the dogs, I just tell them to ignore them walk in and pretend they own the house. It works. But I know those kids would never come in without a family member present, the dogs are intimidating...
I crate the females when people come over that wouldn't feel comfortable with the dogs. 
A muzzle will not solve the problem, I'd rather crate the dog than put a muzzle on(wire basket would be the choice_ if_ I muzzled for extended periods) 
Treats and positive experiences may help Sonny get less reactive, but you have to be consistant and the people coming in need to be on board as well, which is sometimes not easy to do.
.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

What is NILIF?

Right now I would not trust anyone just walking in and ignoring him. I say this because my sister whom I walk with 2x a week for the last 6 months came in the house with me to let him out of the crate. First, she went sideways and let him get her scent, once he got her scent he went in the back of the crate with anxiety...he never shows this to her out of our house. She can kiss him and love him any other time.

Then, we let him out and he came sideways up to her and leaned on her giving the false sense of friendliness. We let him outside and when she went outside he charged her and nipped at her fingers (he did not bite) I said NO and he will stop but do the circle around her.

When we say NO he gets that he shouldn't but he can't stay in the right frame of mind not to do it again...hence unpredictable. 

Does that make sense?

I know what you mean by good breeding lines and socialization, my very good friend has a GSD that is incredible dog with everyone and has none of these issues.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

NILIF is nothing in life is free, the dog has to work for everything given to him so he knows what he is given is in your control(not to an extreme), it works for teenagers as well.
Too much freedom goes to the head, so you clip the wings so to speak, humbling the dog without ruining confidence or self esteem. Confidence can easily be reduced but building it up takes huge effort.
Does your dog seem confident? 
That is really the crux of it, a fearful dog will react acting cocky it is "all that", when really it is reacting out of fear of what may be. Many people misunderstand this, so reading body language is key to helping manage certain personalities, set the dog up to succeed by redirecting if they are getting too ramped up or overwhelmed.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

No he is not a confident dog he has always been anxious and fearful it comes back to not knowing his background other then he was pulled out of a shelter. We have worked on this anxiousness a lot out of the house by taking him everywhere. He is very senstive to noises which kids bring all the time, jumping, running, nerf guns etc...and this creates anxiety for him. He doesn't run the house so I believe it is out fear..does that help.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Do you crate him? A crate may help him to feel secure. 
I would also get him into agility if he can handle it, it is a great way to build confidence. 
Taking him everywhere may be backfiring, some dogs just cannot handle the stimulation of certain environments. Pick and choose your outings with him to create a relaxed dog vs an over anxious situation. 
Maybe just keeping him away from the things that overwhelm him(nerf guns, etc) will help. 
By still practicing NILIF, it will help him feel secure as dogs with fear reactions thrive on structure and routine. 

Human grade, vitamin B complex may help with his anxiety, I've read it helps people with anxiety and can't hurt him.
His diet(no grain) also can help anxiousness to recede.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

He is crated but I hate having to crate him so much when the kids have friends over. If he hears or sees kids he doesn't know in his crate he will bark. He does settle well in his crate if he knows the kids but yet he is unpredictable around them.

He is on a no grain diet that is the only thing he can with stand.

He doesn't go everywhere with us as much now but in the beginning we took him to baseball games, pet store etc...to help him get more adjusted to people along with dog parks.

We are not in agility but do take 5mi walks at least 4x a week so that help drain energy, he is not a very high energy dog.

As with the kids running jumping, nerf gun sounds etc....since he is so sensitive he will just go in his crate when he is scared and I don't mind.

What I really want is for him to accept people in the house or at least be more predictable with the ones he has known for a long time not just us.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

if he's unpredictable in the house, he needs to be secured, as in put a leash on him and don't let any of the kids/guests interact with him at all. 

I like the book, control unleashed, it might be a good read for you. I would NOT stop taking him out in public, just be very vigilant in not allowing ANYONE to approach/pet him..

Those 'nips', can one day turn into a full blown bite which will = big lawsuit. 

Sometimes dogs can't be fixed, but situations CAN be managed. It's not easy, and can very well be a royal pain, but you gotta do what ya gotta do to avoid situations that can set him off. 

In my opinion, a dog that nips like this, (and it's not just one incident) will never be predicatable but can be managed.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

He is secured in his crate when people come over. I thought I could trust him since he "seemed" to be ok with her friend but he proved me wrong and so now he is completely crated when anyone including someone we think he would be OK with is over. 

I did ask about a muzzle does anyone feel this would be a good way to also secure him? So it would give him the chance to interact on his own with our supervision but not give him the chance to nip or bite anyone. If it is a good idea what type of muzzle would be recommended?

I will order that book from the library, my girlfriend had also recommended this read for me too. 

I had a feeling that in his case it would come down to him probably never being predictable and your right it is a pain and very high maintance especially when you have kids and it makes it impossible to have a babysitter over for the kids because he will bark in his crate.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I use this type of muzzle Nylon Muzzles | Pet Supplies, Horse Supplies, Dog Supplies | KVsupply.com

when I take masi to the vet, she's terrified of my vet( and just to be on the safe side, (she's never bit or nipped but ya never know when its fear)...She actually seems more relaxed with it on, maybe she feels safer? knows the decision to bite/nip is out of her hands? I dont' know.

I would try the muzzle when you have kids friends around,,also have them TOSS him treats, and ignore,,he may soon 'get' that the kids are treat dispensers = a good thing !!

I think the thing with kids are, the noise, the fast movements, lots of commotion, that can definately make an already insecure dog, more insecure and more fearful..

I would still take him out in public as I suggested, and put the muzzle on him when you do so...

Just a word of advice on the muzzle,,I got masi used to hers when it was quiet, calm in the house, put it on for a few minutes, treat, put it on longer, that type of thing. 

Now when I get it out to go to the vet, she 'walks' right into it, like it's a GOOD thing


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The nylon muzzles don't allow the dog to pant, so they can overheat in them. If you are putting a muzzle on for an extended period, then a wire basket muzzle would be best. The dog can drink, eat treats and pant with one on.
I use a nylon one for Onyx at the vet also, but only for short periods. 

She had to have emergency surgery on Saturday, and my vet is very good with her, she only growled twice.
I was the one handling her head area, and putting her on a table makes her more relaxed if you can believe that. No one bending down to her is less intimidating. We had to sedate with an injection, then gas as an IV would be out of the question. It took her a half hour to finally knock out. And during the time she was going down, she was very aware of where the vet was, so wouldn't just give in. My vet has worked very hard to make each visit positive and because this was an emergency(Aural hematoma), it was best we were able to go there instead of ruining her at an E-vet, where who knows who would handle her and how they would. And luckily I was able to assist thruout, an E-vet wouldn't allow that, I'm sure.
I would rather try to counter-condition my dog than muzzle, and the book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt was a godsend in helping me manage Onyx. We were able to take a class based on the book, it was great!
I still cannot have her around small children, she can't be trusted at all.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I use a plastic muzzle (when I have my 2 females together as one goes after the other) It is not as contricted as the nylon one. I used treats to get her used to the muzzle so I did it in stages built her up to feeling comfortable in it at first I would just have her put her head in it and as she got more comfortable fastened it Now I can take them for walks together


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

OK, that is what I was thinking when using the muzzle that it would allow us to work with him but not put anyone in harms way. I like the way you introduced it too. 

As for it out in public he doesn't need it as he has not shown this behavior in public only at the house. I don't want to put a sterotype on his head and have people think he is a biter in public and be scared of him. The last thing he needs is to feel anxiety from strangers in public. That is the way I see it though. 

Usually when people come up to me he just stands there and if they ask if they can pet him I say NO he is on the shyer side so they will leave it at that. In the dog park he is confident and when people that I may be talking to call he sometime will chose to come up to them and other times not and they accept it. Oddly enough kids have even hugged him when I didn't expect it and he does nothing but stand there this is of course of the house or yard.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I would rather try to counter-condition my dog than muzzle, and the book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt was a godsend in helping me manage Onyx. We were able to take a class based on the book, it was great!
> I still cannot have her around small children, she can't be trusted at all.


Can I do both? I feel that my anxiety level does go up and that a muzzle while working the situation would make me feel more secured does that make sense? 

Upon reading about aggression, I feel that I don't have it as bad as a lot of people. He is good in public, he is excellent at the vet, he is anxious at our pet sitters but it is seperation anxiety and no aggression involved, the issue is only within the house and yard with people other then our immediate family. 

What do you think?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Yes you can and should do both if you don't trust him. Remember too, that he can feel your anxiety and feed off it. The more relaxed and confident you feel, the better off he will be.
I would get a good quality muzzle though and make sure he can't slip it. I would start with NILIF, confidence building and get the book CU, you should soon see results hopefully!!


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Yes you can and should do both if you don't trust him. Remember too, that he can feel your anxiety and feed off it. The more relaxed and confident you feel, the better off he will be.
> I would get a good quality muzzle though and make sure he can't slip it. I would start with NILIF, confidence building and get the book CU, you should soon see results hopefully!!


Thank you for the advice and support, I was getting to my wits end here and he is really a wonderful dog and not his fault that he is what he is at this point I have too look forward and help him.

I do have the book, I lent it to my girlfriend, I couldn't remember the name but I confirmed so I need to get it back.

I have been looking at muzzles on-line and I have found the good ones tend to run around 35-80 dollars, I think a basket with the padding inside will work with him and I want to be able to make this so postive that even if I never take off the muzzle because I can't trust it I want him to feel that people at our house = good things and they are not here to harm him.

Again, thank you.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

WHile a muzzle will manage the problem..... and a short term solution.

It's not helping with his lack of confidence and learning to look to you for guidance. 

For whatever reason, he seems to think he's 'in charge' of any newcomers to the house. You can't be relied on to keep an eye on them. And he's not listening to you when you say they are ok. For whatever reason, he seems to dismiss you as the leader in these situations and instead he's got to take charge and is entirely not prepared for this uncomfortable leadership role.

For one thing I would STOP allowing him to continue to bark when he wants to in the house. (you may already be doing this). He can alarm bark to alert YOU to something. But when you investigate and say it's ok, then it is. Period. You got it. You are in charge. You say it's ok. And it is. 

So if you go look at what he's barking at, say 'it's ok' in a high happy voice, and then run with him to the kitchen to have a quick 'sit/treat treat treat' then that's fine. YOU took control and look, everything is grand.

You ever read The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell? Great behavorist based book (not obedience based so yippee for that!). Easy read with good practical (and easy) to implement behaviors.

dog behaviour, dog obedience, dog trainers, puppy training, dog rescue assistance, canine behaviour, canine obedience by Jan Fennell the Dog Listener Amichien Bonding








Amazon.com: The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation (9780060089467): Jan Fennell: Books


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> WHile a muzzle will manage the problem..... and a short term solution.
> 
> It's not helping with his lack of confidence and learning to look to you for guidance.
> 
> ...


I believe that his behavior is coming from a fear based issue not a I don't want to listen or I am in charge. I say this because he does not look out windows to just bark and monitor the house and if he does bark he immediately stops when I say stop. He is not an in charge type of dog immediately when I stay stop his ears go back and his head goes down like "I am sorry" I don't know why I did that does that make sense?

I don't feel he is dimissing me because he does listen in every aspect because if someone comes in he will stop it is once they get back up or if he is laying down he will be unpredictable and bark at them with a charge (sometimes). 

The example of my daughter's friend shows what I am saying he was OK once she was in but once she got up he charged her...why is that after he knows her and after she was in the house for hours? 

I believe he knows what he is doing but he doesn't know how to stop it or manage this anxiety or whatever it maybe. 

I do believe that he has human trust issues because of his background. He is bonded to myself and my daughter and listens to us well except for understanding that it is OK that these people are here.

I don't mean to be argue but I know that it is hard to talk about a situation through the internet so I do want to let you know what he does do and what I do too.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think the advice MRL gave is good for a fear reactive dog, too.
You are redirecting his behavior and giving him good things to show him he doesn't have to be afraid(because he is scared he is still trying to control the situation) Once he sees that you are the one that is in control, he may give up and let you take over. It is confusing, but in a scared dogs mind, the fight or flight mentality takes control, They act aggressive to stop the threat(a child getting up from a chair or coming down the stairs)
I have The Dog Listener, I read it a couple yrs ago when Onyx was at her worst, I should get it back out!
Have you looked at Turid Rugaas site? She has a book and DVD about calming signals and how to read body language. It is wonderful for reading the dog and redirecting before they are in the reactive mode.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> I don't feel he is dimissing me because he does listen in every aspect because if someone comes in he will stop it is once they get back up or if he is laying down he will be unpredictable and bark at them with a charge (sometimes).


I think you are probably right, it is from fear. But if he was REALLY confident in you and your ability to lead and be in charge in these situations, it would be a HUGE relief to him so he'd lose his fear. 

I'm not saying you've done anything wrong. Just that you need to work on your general relationship with him and having YOU in the leadership role. You can do this in many calm quiet ways, it's not that you are ALPHA like a ton of bricks. A calm leader guiding him thru life is just fine.

But leadership to a dog is different than what 'leadership' may mean to us. So we need different skills that show the dog that we got it, we are taking the lead, we say it's ok, so it is (and go take a nap  ).


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

I understand what you are saying completely and I agree it comes back to trusting people. I do believe though if I felt like I didn't have to think about the bite I would be calmer so in retrospect a muzzle would help me with my own issue. What do you think?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Have you tried taking her outside on a lesh to meet the people who are coming to visit and is she any better then?


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

No better, I almost have to keep him on a leash at all times.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

elly1210 said:


> I understand what you are saying completely and I agree it comes back to trusting people. I do believe though if I felt like I didn't have to think about the bite I would be calmer so in retrospect a muzzle would help me with my own issue. What do you think?


While a muzzle may help short term, if nothing else to calm you down, long term this is a training/behavior issue that needs to be worked on.

A muzzle is only for management to prevent the bite. It's doing nothing to help the issue your dog has that makes him bite. 

Issues like these may be overwhelming so I don't want to downplay it. I'd really buy the book The Dog Listener. I'd also purchase the DVD 'Calming Signals' by Turid Rugaas. 

BOTH of those are from the behaviorist point of view and get us to look at our dogs differently. They also point out stuff we 'stupid humans' miss because, well cause we are human and not dogs! There is alot of 'dog' stuff going on that we miss that is subtle and quiet. We see the HUGE stuff like the biting/growling/barking, but usually there was quiet little stuff going on prior that we were oblivious to.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

I understand what you and others are saying..right now I have yet to decide, I know it would give me less anxiety. I wouldn't let the dog run all over the yard with the kids with a muzzle, I would continue doing what I do but it would give them a chance to treat him safely and me not be worried. I am going to look into the reference materials and I would thinking of trying to find a behaviorist or in-home trainer who is experience with shepherds to help me out also but finding that here is not easy.


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