# Trial By Fire!



## duttlyn (Mar 30, 2011)

OK... this is just getting *ridiculous*!! Berghoff has had "distemper", giardia, ataxia (that turned out to be muscle related), been starved, had bloody diarrhea, lethargy, possible leukemia, worms, fleas, and an allergic crisis with respiratory distress. You name it and he's had it. As if ANYTHING else could go wrong with Berghoff...arrgghh; low and behold, it did. He grabbed one of my son's Legos and was gnawing on it and I had to pry his mouth off the thing. Well I saw something weird and upon further inspection it was a chicken bone lodged in the roof of his mouth!!! WTF?!?! It was sorta laying flat where one end was really jammed into the palette but the other side was sorta being held between two teeth.

I was sooooo not going back to the vet after I got the talking to a few days ago about how awful chicken bones are so I went to work. I got a tweezer and a chew toy. I put the chew toy in his mouth with my left hand and mock played with him. I wedged it really far back and then I sorta layed on top of him. After about 15 minutes of trying, I finally got in the right position where everything came together and I was able to grab the bone with a tweezer and pull it out. It was really stuck in the skin and there was a bloody hole left.

So, I guess the point of my story is that I'm asking you raw feeders if you've ever had such a thing happen? It's got me a bit spooked because what if that was a hole in his trachea or tummy? Is this a normal thing that happens and how do you deal with it? I really want to go back to raw when his stomach has calmed down (it's WELL on it's way) so I just need to mentally reset and I'd love some feedback.

Thanks everyone... ya know, I really think that we are at the end of Berghoff's drama stage. I think we're coming to the other side, the happy side. I'm excited.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

How long do you think that bone has been there? It may be the reason for his recent upset.
I've fed raw for almost 4 years and never had bones perforate or get caught in the mouth. But never say never....
Poor Berghoff...I hope his future holds nothing but good health from now on!


----------



## DeeMcB (Nov 28, 2010)

I haven't been at it as long as Jane (1 year in July) but I've never had anything like that happen either. I'd call it a fluke. Just like with kids, stuff happens. There's no way you can prepare for every potentiality My son once tripped walking back from the pencil sharpener at school and jabbed the entire pencil up his nostril. My youngest daughter shoved a Cheeto up her nose so far that I couldn't get ahold to pull it out (sneezed it out before we got to the ER). 

Don't be discouraged. You did a great job of taking care of the situation.


----------



## duttlyn (Mar 30, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> How long do you think that bone has been there? It may be the reason for his recent upset.


Well, it had to be at least 3 days ago because that's when he got sick with the diarrhea and we stopped raw but I can't say if it happened that day or a few days earlier. Sigh. I'm just glad I saw it and removed it before it got infected or something. It's amazing to me that he functioned, ate, and seemed **** happy yesterday with that sitting in there! I taught him to speak yesterday so his attention was decent... maybe it wasn't bothering him? Is that possible?!


----------



## duttlyn (Mar 30, 2011)

DeeMcB said:


> My son once tripped walking back from the pencil sharpener at school and jabbed the entire pencil up his nostril


... horrifying!


----------



## DeeMcB (Nov 28, 2010)

OT, but the worst part was that the teacher didn't call me to tell me what had happened. I picked him up from school and found the front of his shirt covered in blood and he told me the story. A trip to the doc/Xray showed that he had a laceration up in his sinus. Crazy, huh? Poor guy...there was really nothing to do but put him on antibiotics and Tylenol. And lots of mommy love.


----------



## DeeMcB (Nov 28, 2010)

Oh, and of course, I let the teacher have it.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Wow, that would have been horrible! I can't imagine if that had happened to one of my kids!
Is Berghoff on antibiotics right now? I hope so, just in case the bone may have festered and caused an infection.


----------



## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Poor baby boy!

I've been feeding raw since 1993 and never had anything like that happen, WHEW


----------



## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

You are so observant and attentive to him! Glad he is okay!!!


----------



## duttlyn (Mar 30, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Is Berghoff on antibiotics right now? I hope so, just in case the bone may have festered and caused an infection.


Ya know, he is on antibiotics. Two of them in fact... you made me feel better about giving them now! I hate antibiotics and try to avoid them but in this instance, it may have been a really good thing because I don't think his little (giant) body could handle another thing going wrong.



krystyne73 said:


> You are so observant and attentive to him! Glad he is okay!!!


Thanks but really I think I'm just on hyper-alert. He's our first pup and so I was worrying already and then all the health issues he's dealt with have me watching every little thing he does. If he was a human child, he'd probably need loads of psychotherapy from the smothering!


----------



## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm glad he's doing better.
Personally, I grew up with the phobia of chicken bones are bad!
So, if I went raw I'd actually buy the Primal Brand Raw food.


----------



## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

Whew, that poor boy just can't catch a break can he? I hope this is the end of all his health issues. I am glad he is on the mend and getting to just enjoy being a puppy. I wish him all the best.


----------



## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I have not had that happen either but my dogs are older, not sure if that matters. Poor baby Berg he and you both need to catch a break! If you are concerned about bones you could go to a frozen like Bravo.


----------



## duttlyn (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks everyone. I never was worried about bones and never having a dog before, it wasn't something that was ingrained in my head so the switch to raw was relatively easy for me. BUT now I'm a little more worried.

Hey, maybe that was his one fluke and from now on it'll be better. He still is having pudding poop and I'm gonna give him a while before I transition him back but I WILL transition him back.

Maybe being a baby is why he didn't do a good job with the bones? And, maybe it would have eventually worked its way out on its own?


----------



## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Dogs can choke on kibble, dogs can choke on raw. It is a bit of a fluke thing either way, but it certainly can happen. I have not had dogs choke on raw or get any bones stuck, but I have had them not chew properly and puke up bones later on... usually they choose to eat them a second time (chewing more carefully). A friend of mine had her Chi/Pom mix almost choke on BONELESS raw... because she is a resource guarder and feels the need to get the meat down immediately before someone steals it. The food was stuck long enough to scare the owner but not long enough to harm the dog.

I wouldn't automatically assume that it would happen again with your pup, although I certainly would be diligent about watching how he eats his food. What cuts of chicken were you feeding? Breast meat tends to have softer bones so that might be a good choice for your pup. I would stay away from wings and backs... those are very boney.


----------



## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

I have never had a raw bone pierce the skin of one of my dogs. All of the bones are diligently chewed by my dogs then swallowed. 

However I have had a dog choke on raw. Nina had been on a "we are only eating on the track" day. So the next day when she went to eat food she acted like a ravenous beast. I kid you not the dog ate the entire meal in one swallow. 

She stood there barely able to breath and trying to heave it up. I had to give her the Heimlich and squeeze her belly in one big thrust to bring it all up. she ate it much slower and diligently the second time. Haven't had a problem since.

sometimes dogs have to make mistakes with things in order to understand the right way to do it. 

I don't feed young puppies raw diet. I have raised all of my puppies on kibble. Veda was on kibble until 8 months old, Loki was on kibble until 8 months old as well. And Havoc is on kibble now still at almost 10 months old. I think I might keep him on the Acana & Orijen I have had him on a while longer. I still have 3 more bags to go through and thats atleast 3 months worth of food for him. 

I personally for one don't agree with giving young puppies raw bones. If you are feeding your dog raw, fine, by all means I do it myself to my adults. But if you are replicating a diet wolves eat in nature, one has to consider what the puppies are actually eating. They are eating the regurgitated partially digested food the mother throws up for them. That means there are no harsh bones and already grinded down chewed bones their mother is giving them. 

That and I don't trust myself even as a raw feeder for 3 years now, to properly balance a raw diet for a puppy. Their dietary requirements are far too sensitive for me to feel comfortable about it.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Do you know what type of bone it was or what RMB it came from?

My guys have had a few instances of getting a bone piece stuck - usually between their teeth - but they show distress right away and since I'm right there while they eat I can deal with it instantly.


----------



## duttlyn (Mar 30, 2011)

4TheDawgies said:


> They are eating the regurgitated partially digested food the mother throws up for them. That means there are no harsh bones and already grinded down chewed bones their mother is giving them.


I wasn't aware of this... I thought they ate just like the adults did. This is really interesting to me and maybe it's part of the reason Berghoff had trouble. Thanks for the info!



Lauri & The Gang said:


> Do you know what type of bone it was or what RMB it came from?


I'm pretty sure it was part of the breast (like a rib or something) because it was long and thin but intact; It wasn't a shard. He showed no distress at all so I would never even have guessed. The emergency vet didn't even spot it (Thank God because that would have just fueled her crazy fire).


----------

