# Q&A -- What Can Put A Stop to Faux SDs?



## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I tend to call them Faux SDs vrs. Fake.

Here in the U.S. it is in large part the Honor System that keeps people (either disabled or non-disabled) from claiming their dog is a SD when it in fact isn't. Oh yes, the old Honor System -- that way of living that sometimes takes a beating or at least a tarnish in some people's lives. 

If someone knows how to work the system and decides not to then what is it that keeps them from taking Fluffy to market with them or to an evening of a dinner and a movie?

For the owner -- it is in large part an ethical principle. Some people try to live their life being the best person they can be, some behave only because they have a fear of being caught and humiliated in front of their peers while others don't really care.

In some states now (and more coming on board) it can also be against their state statutes which means breaking a criminal law that could lead to being caught and facing the legal system.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I guess I just chalk it up to..."rules are for everyone else" mentality. My guess would be...any state which actually deals with "faux SD" cheaters is given a warning. This day and age of self proclaimed "victim" status is becoming rampant along with one of my more favorite excuses/lines I hear all too often....you know.."you just don't get it". Most everyone abusing these type of self policed ( honor system ) rules of conduct are all exceptions....just ask them.

Oh, a $5000 fine and actual verification of SD credentials would put an end to it.


SuperG


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

To add to TJ's topic "and not infringe on the rights of those with legitimate SD?"


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

How are the rights of those with a valid SD being infringed upon.????

I am asking to gather knowledge....not to cause conflict.


SuperG


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## royals17 (Feb 15, 2015)

SuperG said:


> I guess I just chalk it up to..."rules are for everyone else" mentality. My guess would be...any state which actually deals with "faux SD" cheaters is given a warning. This day and age of self proclaimed "victim" status is becoming rampant along with one of my more favorite excuses/lines I hear all too often....you know.."you just don't get it". Most everyone abusing these type of self policed ( honor system ) rules of conduct are all exceptions....just ask them.
> 
> Oh, a $5000 fine and actual verification of SD credentials would put an end to it.
> 
> ...


 << this is perfect

This happens a lot around where I live. People walk around everywhere with, like, Chihuahuas in service vests and they claim that they're a service dog because they're making people happy when they see the dog. 
:smirk:


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I am truly sorry that people have ruined it for those who truly have SDs. I truly am. But I feel that those who abuse the system should pay. The only way that I can see that happening is to make it more difficult to fake or faux your way through the system. 

Using the process along the same lines as handicapped parking. You apply for the right to park in the handicapped space. If you do not have that right and you park there, you and fined heavily ($500 in some areas of Texas!).


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I also think that a Service Dog is a medical requirement. It should be prescribed by a physician and therefore insurance should pay for it. Just as they would pay for medication or medical equipment.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

SuperG said:


> I guess I just chalk it up to..."rules are for everyone else" mentality.


That's what I've seen.

I've paid to take a small animal on a plane. I called the airline, made the reservation, paid the fee, and got a list of things they needed me to have in order for him to fly. I took him to the vet and paid for the exam and health certificate.

Someone my husband knows came close to proposing that she take her small dog on a plane as a "service dog" so she wouldn't have to pay. I let her know in no uncertain terms that this would be a really bad thing to do. It was humorous trying to watch her backpedal. Total "rules are for others" outlook.


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

I work in an intensive care unit at a hospital. One woman wanted to bring her SD in. The dog would not even sit at her command...


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

While out and about with my SDiT, I've encountered a number of dogs behaving inappropriately, that were labelled as service dogs.

Lunging, barking, growling at my dog... Not ok.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I'd venture to say the majority of dogs I see are fake. Aside from the "rules are for others" attitudes, there no way to verify with the 2 simple questions, they lie and are on their way. Some kind of hard to replicate ID and heavy fines for those who cheat would help.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

No matter how perfectly well behaved this particular GSD I speak of is, I still get extremely annoyed every time I see her and her owner in one of our stores. Since the day I struck up a conversation and discovered that she is NOT a service dog. She is his pet, he is personally training her in search and rescue. She is a perfect lady in the store but that's not the point. I think stores should have the right to trespass animals from the store when they aren't SD dogs just like we can trespass humans for violating rules.


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## kburrow11 (Jan 31, 2014)

I agree. I am owner training Vida as my service dog (as I was prescribed one for my PTSD, GAD, and neurological conditions affecting my balance and ability to not black out randomly), and I take her training extremely seriously. She currently has "In Training" patches on her vest, and they will not be removed until I am 100% positive (through having her evaluated) that she is finished with her training. I only take her places that I have cleared beforehand to get permission to have her train there


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

It would be nice if businesses actually used their rights spelled out in ADA to call out fakers. I've seen so many barking, growling, lunging faux service dogs that the business would be completely within their rights to remove. But they don't because they don't know their own rights. 

Perfect example, I came across a dog that was lunging and barking at Kaiju in Whole Foods. Several employees walked by without comment. I was confused because the dog was so obviously violating ADA (dog cannot be out of control) and when I spoke with a manager, he was so surprised that by law, he could ask her to leave if her dog was being majorly disruptive like that. Apparently he was just glad the little yapper was on a leash that day!

I really wish it was illegal to carry a service dog ID, since almost all of them are illegitimate documents anyways. They're already unnecessary. And usually when people get away with bringing in their ill-behaved pets, it's because they've shoved a so-called ID in the manager's face.


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## Zimom (Jan 6, 2014)

We run into obviously faux/fake service dogs all the time. And then we have encounters such as yesterday where we walked by a 'service dog' with a vest from an organization that I am very familiar. The dog lunged and started barking uncontrollably at my daughter's service dog. Y did not so much as turn her head. 

Someone up thread asked how this infringes on our rights. I would not call them rights, but every time there is a fake service dog or a poorly trained SD, the general public looses trust and questions real SDs IMO. Grocery stores, hotels, restaurants, etc., question and challenge my daughter more often. Her dog is wonderful, well trained, from a great organization. She has an obvious, visible, physical disability, but over the years she is stopped more and more and asked if her dog is legitimate, if she has proof and more. My daughter just wants to live her life. She doesn't want to be singled out, she doesn't want to be questioned.


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## gloomydog (Oct 23, 2012)

The people deluding themselves usually "certify" their dog as an "emotional support animal", which is separate and distinct from being a service animal.

A service animal needs to be trained, and meets ADA requirements. It is trained to perform a specific job or task.

So for instance, you usually see people trying to claim their dog is an emotional support dog. This does not mean the dog is a psychiatric service dog automatically. If the dog has been trained to sense an anxiety attack is about to happen, and perform a specific action to help avoid or lessen the impact of the attack, it is a service animal under the ADA. Otherwise it is just a comfort providing, "emotional support" dog and not entitled to ADA considerations.

The problem is these people also then go on to buy special vests for their dogs and claim them to be service animals, and that is indistinguishable to most people.

They really ruin it for real people in need, all because they want to take their dog anywhere they go.

You can't really do anything, but keep in mind if you suspect an animal is not a real service animal, you can ask the following questions only:

1) Is it a service animal?

2) If so, what task does it do?

You can't ask whether the animal has papers to certify it or what the disability is. But based on the answer to (2) you can usually determine whether it is an "emotional support" animal (a term I've grown very scornful of recently in case you can't tell!) or a real service animal. 

Of course this all presupposes the owner tells the truth. Human is allowed to lie and you still can't do anything about it.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

gloomydog said:


> ...
> 
> You can't really do anything, but keep in mind if you suspect an animal is not a real service animal, you can ask the following questions only:
> 
> ...


It is important to remember that only management and staff "gatekeepers" are to ask these questions. Random customers in a store are not to go up to teams and ask questions of the handler.

From U.S. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division
Disability Rights Section

Frequently Asked Questions about Service Animals and the ADA

Q7. What questions can a covered entity’s employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?

A: In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and(2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person’s disability.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Either we've had a huge spike around here in people who need a service dog or we've got a lot of fauz and the stores are too afraid to ask those questions. 



ILGHAUS said:


> Random customers in a store are not to go up to teams and ask questions of the handler.


Why not if you suspect that snarky, shaking yorkie walking in through the garden center door at walmart in fact NOT a service dog? ESAs are not allowed where food is sold.

An actual service dog has bearing, they have a job and they're doing it. I trained two of our shepherd girls to alert and contain my autistic son's impending meltdowns so I completely understand invisible disability on that half of the partnership.


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## Elf (Jun 10, 2016)

I've ran into many owners who own service dogs, and let me tell you... At least 90 percent of the people I've met with a service dog.. Were completely fake service dogs just people who want their dog to come everywhere with them.

This one time I was walking my pup and this girl starts walking over and she spots my GSD puppy, and then her 'service dog' instantly starts whining, and pulling her and barking because she couldn't get to my pup, she kept pulling so the lady finally came over because her dog really wanted to see my puppy, and she was just like telling me nervously; "Oh... She really like puppies, she's has a natural mother instinct." I still didn't let her dog approach mine though (couldn't), but again, her dog kept pulling and whining, when they tried to walk off, she had to tug as hard as she could because she didn't wanna leave my puppy while whining.

I've also notice there has been a trend of people registering their dog as PTSD service dogs just so they can bring their dog everywhere, this one girl I know who's in her early 20s told me she got her dog registered as a PTSD dog (she doesn't have any form of PTSD).. Just so she can bring him everywhere because she's in love with her dog she then stated it's "super easy" to do.

Ridiculous, huh?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Great.....this thread is active again......it really chaps me cookies mate...this charade of faux "service dogs". I just recently dealt with another person who I somewhat know....the gig is..." I have PTSD and my dog eases the disorder....". First, I am not in any way, shape or form being disrespectful to those who honestly suffer from PTSD ...but this person is taking advantage and pretty much admits to it.....and basically contends..." I just feel better taking my dog with me because I don't like leaving her home alone.....blah blah blah" Of course I asked my usual questions and within 3 questions I knew this person was a complete farce.

What really pickles my herring even more now than the faking of a SD... is the faking of a disorder a human claims to have in order to 'justify" that their crappy trained dog is a SD. I tread lightly in this area because many people keep certain things private and choose not to air certain difficulties they might struggle with.....but not this particular person.

There is a small part of me that somewhat hopes this person faking their PTSD to rationalize taking their poorly trained dog " service dog" everywhere, actually gets their "wish" and does become a person with PTSD. I'm so damned sick of people faking hardships and wearing it on their sleeve....absolutely EVERYBODY in this absurd pretense loses.

Did any of this sound bitter ????


SuperG


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I don't think charging disabled ppl 5k is fair. many of us live on SSDI which is nearly impossible. I
I think an impartial and capable organization like the IAADP shod certify dogs. They could easily do it long distance via YouTube videos submitted by the owner, showing that they dog can pass the IAADP's public access test (go read it, an untrained dog will not pass) and showing the dog performing its trained tasks. Anyone with a phone could show they have trained their dog to this point, and it does meet the legal requirement of a SD. By submitting the videos to an impartial organization for certification, disabled people would not have to reveal anything about their disability to a business who is questioning them. I do think video of the dog performing its tasks should be part of certification to weed out well behaved pets or ESAs.

Fakers could not pass this test. Any business could ask to see the dog's certification and done. As a disabled person using SDS, I would gladly submit myself and my dogs to this if it meant I didn't have to put up with fakers or be accused of being one


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I don't think charging disabled ppl 5k is fair. many of us live on SSDI which is nearly impossible.


Where did you get the charging disabled ppl 5k from???...granted I didn't read the entire thread..

SuperG


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

SuperG said:


> I guess I just chalk it up to..."rules are for everyone else" mentality. My guess would be...any state which actually deals with "faux SD" cheaters is given a warning. This day and age of self proclaimed "victim" status is becoming rampant along with one of my more favorite excuses/lines I hear all too often....you know.."you just don't get it". Most everyone abusing these type of self policed ( honor system ) rules of conduct are all exceptions....just ask them.
> 
> Oh, a $5000 fine and actual verification of SD credentials would put an end to it.
> 
> ...


I guess I misread this.... I mentally interpereted this to say paying 5k for SD credentials, but I see it says fine which I suppose would be leveled at fakers only.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

SOMETHING needs to be done. Stores don't even ask. Last week we had Otto in the car from a vet apt and stopped at Walmart to drop off my son's broken glasses. My son is 12, I sent his sister in there with him and our health insurance card. She comes right back out saying I have to go in there. TO SHOW MY ID, it was silly, there wasn't even money changing hands.

It was hot and it was walmart, I'm not leaving Otto in the car. So lets do this, Otto What's the worst that can happen, we get kicked out and I have to make the walmart vision center guy come out to the parking lot to check my ID?

Otto doesn't heel worth a twit, he's wearing a prong collar because he's been at the vet and he's whining at my daughter to come back. The greeter who should be the person asking the question about SD just looked at me, I smiled, held my dog back and marched into the vision center (it's up front, right next to the front door)

Otto's yodeling at my kids because they're too far away, a few blue smocks looked at us but not a one of them said a word. Just like I expected. Did what I needed to and walked out without a single walmart employee asking me a single question.

Never once claimed he was a service dog. Otto's got a better chance at passing for a police dog than a service dog. Nobody asked. Too afraid I guess.

Was it the right thing to do, probably not but in my defense, I do know my dog well enough that if an actual service dog was in the building and made eye contact with Otto, it would have been a dude nod moment.


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