# Showing an unregistered dog.



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I am in the process of speaking to a woman who rescued a 2 year old GSD female. This GSD is the result of a person who bred an AKC female GSD to an AKC Limited Registered male. So the puppy is not AKC registered. 

My question is this, I obviously can't compete in AKC sanctioned shows. But can I compete in other shows? Are there many events out there where you can show an unregistered dog? Not in conformation, but in Agility, Rally, Tracking etc. 

I've met the GSD and I really like her. She needs a job and I think she'd do well in Rally or even tracking. She is untrained and a handful. The offer to me is I can foster her and utilize our time training together. If she would do better in a 'pet' home then they'll search for another home for her. If she is happy in a 'working' home then I can say I'm a foster failure. 

The rescue isn't a certified rescue. It is my vet clinic, who is attempting to find a good home for this dog. I have no doubt in my mind if she doesn't work out, they'll continue to look for a home for her. I'll keep her as a foster, and continue working with her to ensure she'll find a good home. But if I decide to keep her, then she is mine. 

Either way I decide, I've already told them I'll keep her over the Holidays, picking her up this Sunday. I couldn't see any reason for her to be kenneled at the clinic on Christmas. Hondo has already met her and loves her. She is happy go lucky and not bothered by much.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Get a PAL number from the AKC and you can participate in AKC sanctioned events. Jax has one. (agility, rally, obedience, tracking)

Other agility/rally
ASCA (Australian Shepherd but accepts all breeds for agility/rally. Not sure if they have tracking)
DOCNA - agility all breed


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

REALLY! That is exciting! Are there seperate classes, or do you show shoulder to shoulder with the regularly registered dogs?

What I mean is I have 1/2 Arabians. I show at rated shows but the 1/2 Arabians have their own seperate classes. Is it the same as PAL registered dogs?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You are in the same classes with registered dogs. I'm not sure what would happen if you beat the registered dogs.  Not sure if they get preference for wins because they are registered.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Wonderful! I always do better with a goal in mind.......


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

With the PAL you're entitled to compete in any AKC venue open to the GSD with the exception of conformation classes. Once you step in the ring you're on equal footing with all the dog's entered, regardless if they have full registration, limited registration, or a PAL/ILP number.

FWIW I was defrauded by Bruiser's breeder and he's registered with an AKC ILP number. He also has full UKC registration since I could prove that both his sire and dam are registered GSDs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Gayle - I've been told that Jax can not enter any event if there is also a conformation class and that entering a dog with a PAL number in events is dependent on whether the specific club will allow it. Is that true?


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

The PAL number is for purebred dogs that for some reason do not have papers to get full registration, they can show at the same events where confirmation is showing also.
The new canine partners registration is for mixed breeds, not all shows take them, and there was a rule about mixed breeds not being in shows where confirmation was going on also


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

My female gsd, (now passed), had an ILP which is now PAL I guess, I competed in agility, obedience, some herding with her.

We competed right along side any dog registered with AKC and other venues. No separate classes, she took High in Trials a couple of times, so having an ILP vs a straight akc reg, didn't affect anything. 

The only thing we couldn't have done was compete on the world team in agility LOL,,I coulda cared less, she had over 30 agility titles, obed titled, certified in a couple things,, I say GO FOR IT!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Diane - Is it true that competing with a dog with a PAL number is dependent on whether the club allows it?

I was told by my friend who has bred and shown dogs for many, many years that dogs with PAL numbers cannot enter if that show is having conformation and it is dependent on whether the club holding the events allows them to enter.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I think they are confusing the new registration for mixed breed dogs with the ILP/PAL program. If the dog appears purebred and is registered with the PAL , it can compete in the AKC performance events at any show. The Mixed breed registration only allows you to compete at shows without conformation.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

PAL or ILP number dogs have been shown right along side mine in every show I have entered whether or not there have been conformation events. 

Only the mixed breed registry will be up to individual clubs, or at shows where there are no conformation events.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Andaka said:


> I think they are confusing the new registration for mixed breed dogs with the ILP/PAL program. If the dog appears purebred and is registered with the PAL , it can compete in the AKC performance events at any show. The Mixed breed registration only allows you to compete at shows without conformation.



No, she's not. She told me this before they came out with the mixed breed registration. 

So, is the answer is that she is wrong and I can enter events regardless of whether there is a conformation event?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

selzer said:


> PAL or ILP number dogs have been shown right along side mine in every show I have entered whether or not there have been conformation events.
> 
> Only the mixed breed registry will be up to individual clubs, or at shows where there are no conformation events.


ooppss..should have read Sue's post before posting.  Thanks everyone! I'll make sure to tell her that it doesn't apply to PAL/ILP numbers.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

That is really good news. It seems to me, as someone who is interested in showing and not breeding - that the best course of action would be to search through rescues as I would pretty much know what type of clay I was working with and not hoping that the puppy grows up to have what it takes to enter a show pen. 

Kind of opens up a whole new world when searching for a dog. Rescues don't just have to be 'pets'.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lilie said:


> That is really good news. It seems to me, as someone who is interested in showing and not breeding - that the best course of action would be to search through rescues as I would pretty much know what type of clay I was working with and not hoping that the puppy grows up to have what it takes to enter a show pen.
> 
> Kind of opens up a whole new world when searching for a dog. Rescues don't just have to be 'pets'.


Are you going to take her in then?

I want to see some pictures!!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> Are you going to take her in then?
> 
> I want to see some pictures!!


I pick her up this Sunday and help foster her through the holidays. I would say (with my limited experiance) that she is bi-colored. She is mostly black with brown on her toes and feet. She has a few white hairs on her chest. I don't think she has had her 2nd birthday yet. 

She has a strong prey drive as she was raised near woods. They had a lot of racoons, deer etc. run behind the yard. She was housed in a small back yard and pretty much ran the fence 24/7. Keeping her through the holidays will give me a chance to make sure I can keep her off/away from the horses. If I have difficulties during the holidays I am set up to place her in a large dog run for her to do her 'business' in. I don't think she is house trained....yet:wild:. We are going to work on crate training a well as potty training and some basic OB. That way I can get the feel of her. 

It's a winning situation for both of us. Like test driving a car for a while before you sign any paper work. She gets the benefits of training, (and not being boarded at the clinic during the holidays) and I get to see if we click before actually making the commitment.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lilie said:


> I pick her up this Sunday and help foster her through the holidays. I would say (with my limited experiance) that she is bi-colored. She is mostly black with brown on her toes and feet. She has a few white hairs on her chest. I don't think she has had her 2nd birthday yet.
> 
> She has a strong prey drive as she was raised near woods. They had a lot of racoons, deer etc. run behind the yard. She was housed in a small back yard and pretty much ran the fence 24/7. Keeping her through the holidays will give me a chance to make sure I can keep her off/away from the horses. If I have difficulties during the holidays I am set up to place her in a large dog run for her to do her 'business' in. I don't think she is house trained....yet:wild:. We are going to work on crate training a well as potty training and some basic OB. That way I can get the feel of her.
> 
> It's a winning situation for both of us. Like test driving a car for a while before you sign any paper work. She gets the benefits of training, (and not being boarded at the clinic during the holidays) and I get to see if we click before actually making the commitment.


She sounds beautiful! Bicolors with only a little brown on their feet are one of my favorites! 

Congrats Nancy! I hope she is perfect for you, your hubby and the rest of your pack! Hondo just might have a girlfriend!! I'm so excited for you! What is her name?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> She sounds beautiful! Bicolors with only a little brown on their feet are one of my favorites!
> 
> Congrats Nancy! I hope she is perfect for you, your hubby and the rest of your pack! Hondo just might have a girlfriend!! I'm so excited for you! What is her name?


They called her Star due to the few white hairs on her chest. But that just doesn't fit with the '*******' names our pack has. Hubby normally names any newbes so I'll wait to see what he says. 

She is registered through CKC (the one that means absolutley nothing) and they promised to give me a copy of her papers so I can see who her parents were. That might help re-name her if we decide to keep her. 

I'm curious as to why the father was limited registerd with AKC. Either he had problems, or didn't pass OFA etc, or they didn't pay the 'extra' when he turned 2. I don't know. But I would be interested in finding out I'm kinda hoping he came from a big time breeder who utilizes this practice to help ensure only the best offspring are bred. And it isn't due to any health issues with the father. Just that the owner didn't bother to follow through with their aggreement. I would have to assume that your average back yard breeder wouldn't care one way or the other and sell all their puppies with a full registration.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

American Kennel Club - Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege

All information I've ever seen shows that PAL/IPL dogs CANNOT compete in Conformation classes except in Jr. Showmanship.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

They can't compete in conformation. That's not even an option as far as I know. But they can in Jr. Showmanship? That's nice that they let the Jr.'s show them!

I sent an email to the AKC for a definitive answer.

oh! They have to be spayed neutered also to get a PAL!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Lilie said:


> I'm curious as to *why the father was limited registerd with AKC.* .


Check with the AKC. I think there is a way you may be able to register her but I can't remember what it was. There was a thread that spoke about it a few weeks ago but I don't even know what the name of the thread is.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lilie said:


> They called her Star due to the few white hairs on her chest. But that just doesn't fit with the '*******' names our pack has. Hubby normally names any newbes so I'll wait to see what he says.
> 
> She is registered through CKC (the one that means absolutley nothing) and they promised to give me a copy of her papers so I can see who her parents were. That might help re-name her if we decide to keep her.
> 
> I'm curious as to why the father was limited registerd with AKC. Either he had problems, or didn't pass OFA etc, or they didn't pay the 'extra' when he turned 2. I don't know. But I would be interested in finding out I'm kinda hoping he came from a big time breeder who utilizes this practice to help ensure only the best offspring are bred. And it isn't due to any health issues with the father. Just that the owner didn't bother to follow through with their aggreement. I would have to assume that your average back yard breeder wouldn't care one way or the other and sell all their puppies with a full registration.


Oohhhh I wanna help name her!!! How about something with an H like Hondo? What about Harlow, Harper, Halo, Haley, Haven, Harley, Hera, Helena (my favorite name ever) Holly or Hayden


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## Wilhoit (May 17, 2010)

It's a winning situation for both of us. Like test driving a car for a while before you sign any paper work. She gets the benefits of training, (and not being boarded at the clinic during the holidays) and I get to see if we click before actually making the commitment.[/QUOTE]

This is a grand idea! I think you are right that the ability to be trained is one of the foundations of a successful bond between a human and a dog. Hadn't thought about the necessity of a "click" between dog and human, although I should have, since Wilhoit chose me at the same time I was choosing him. Please do keep us updated on every little interesting detail! And pics, too, please! Would love some of Hondo, as well. This is going to be an exciting experience for you. Will especially love to hear how you go about developing a bond with her and then training her. Hope she is O.K. with the horses. Good luck!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> Oohhhh I wanna help name her!!! How about something with an H like Hondo? What about Harlow, Harper, Halo, Haley, Haven, Harley, Hera, Helena (my favorite name ever) Holly or Hayden


Hmmm, I'm digging 'Harley'. Might be the only way I can afford one!  And with all that black....like she is wearing leather....hmmmmm


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lilie said:


> Hmmm, I'm digging 'Harley'. Might be the only way I can afford one!  And with all that black....like she is wearing leather....hmmmmm


I love it Nancy!!!

Hondo and Harley!

They sound great together! :wub:


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Wilhoit said:


> It's a winning situation for both of us. Like test driving a car for a while before you sign any paper work. She gets the benefits of training, (and not being boarded at the clinic during the holidays) and I get to see if we click before actually making the commitment.


This is a grand idea! I think you are right that the ability to be trained is one of the foundations of a successful bond between a human and a dog. Hadn't thought about the necessity of a "click" between dog and human, although I should have, since Wilhoit chose me at the same time I was choosing him. Please do keep us updated on every little interesting detail! And pics, too, please! Would love some of Hondo, as well. This is going to be an exciting experience for you. Will especially love to hear how you go about developing a bond with her and then training her. Hope she is O.K. with the horses. Good luck![/QUOTE]

A part of the pasture backs right up to the back yard. And I have a huge custom sliding glass door that looks out to both. So it's really important that she can redirect any prey drive that she might have regarding the horses. I certainly don't need her lunging at the glass. But I'm confident we can work through it. 

If the holidays go well, then I've committed to at least one training session (basic OB) for her. That will come out of my pocket, but again, it's a winning situation for both of us. I get to brush up on training, and she gets the benefit of the OB class. If there is something odd about her behavior, I'll have a professional there to help us through it. At the same time, I get a learning experiance too. 

Afterwards, if it just doesn't work out, she'll be a better behaved dog and that will increase her chances of finding a good home. But if it does, then I'll have a better idea of what she will enjoy doing with regards to competition and already have one leg under me. 

It works for Hubby too, because he was sweating it regarding the prices of the puppies I've been looking at! :wild:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

PAL can show in any show, regardless of whether there is conformation.

Verified with the AKC. Lilie - If you would like a copy of hte email, please PM me and I'll send it to you.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> PAL can show in any show, regardless of whether there is conformation.
> 
> Verified with the AKC. Lilie - If you would like a copy of hte email, please PM me and I'll send it to you.


 
Hmm. did they specify if that recently changed? I swear I've read before they can't compete in conformation events and it's not listed on the website. 

At one point I thought there was some sentence in there about being able to compete in anything but. But maybe that was something I read on a thread somewhere and am just remembering it as from the AKC website.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

They cannot compete IN the conformation event, but they can compete at obedience and rally trials held with a conformation show.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

They can't compete in conformation. The can compete in anything but. They can compete even if there is a conformation event in the same show. That was what I meant.

I asked if there was a change recently because I was told they could not compete if there were conformation events in the same show.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> They can't compete in conformation. The can compete in anything but. They can compete even if there is a conformation event in the same show. That was what I meant.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I am SO slow lately!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

:rofl: It's all that snow blocking out the sunlight!!!!


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