# New male, dominance issue



## marcz (Jul 19, 2006)

Hello everyone,
This is my first posting and question. We have had a female GSD since a puppy for almost 2.5 years, her name is Molly. We have a large fenced in area for her with cover, water, etc. She has been a good pet but has a mind of her own. I have recently realized that she has had control of the situation and I'm working on learning more about working with her.

We have now adopted a 1.5 year old male GSD and our hope was to have a friend for Molly. His name is Jesse. He has had some training and is very much tuned into me, more so that Molly. He basically didn't have the drive to be a police dog. I realize that I need to be the alpha for both which I'm learning how to do.

He has adjusted well to being here for the last two weeks. Both Molly and Jesse walk fine together when on leashes. I would like to place both into the same fenced in area but we're having issues. Jesse will chase Molly around. When they stop running they both go for each other's necks. I understand that they're figuring out who's the most dominant. I allowed this for about 10 minutes yesterday until they became quite rough. 

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this? 

Thanks in advance.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Hi Marc,

Welcome! I would suggest enrolling both dogs in a positive obedience training class. I would also put them both on Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF) at home. http://www.sspca.org/Dogs/TANSTAAFL.html

You want to be sure to show them that you are a clear and fair leader. I use reward based training and usually reward with really good treats or with a toy, depending on what motivates the dog. 

As for their behavior together--are you sure you're not seeing play behavior? Gsds can be very rough in their play and, frankly, often look and sound like they want to kill each other!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Sounds like play behavior to me. Dog play is very rough and very loud but when it is play it just tends to sound bad and look bad. The neck is a very strong, thickly-furred part of the GSD body and so it is pretty safe for play. That they can walk together just fine tells me that they just want to wrestle and be dogs! What you can do is keep a strong, sturdy pole handy like a walking stick or a thick PVC pipe, have two people present who both know how to separate dogs in a true dogfight, and let them go WITHOUT collars in a safe and secure environment. The best way to separate fighting dogs is to have each person grab the rear legs of each dog and lift up, sort of like playing "wheelbarrow," then "wheelbarrow" each dog away from each other in a circle (this really keeps them off balance) until each dog can be contained away from the other. Never reach anywhere near the business end of a fighting dog! 

But these guys sound like they are playing. Dog play involves flashing teeth, not really much biting (mouthing yes), slapping paws, slamming bodies, and both dogs will end up on the ground underneath the other through the course of play. When you said they got rough, did the growling get deeper and sharper sounding? When you separated them and let them calm down, were they then fine with each other? It's hard to say when we're not there but I agree with Ruth's advice to step up the NILIF, take the new dog to obedience classes (and it wouldn't hurt for Molly to have classes to refresh, either), and maybe hold off on playtime together until both dogs- especially Jesse- see you and understand you to be the undisputed Leader of All.


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## marcz (Jul 19, 2006)

Hello Ruth and Diana,
Thanks for the information. Actually, I did fail to mention, that when they stopped to take a break, they would drink from the same water bowl..... They sure get a lot of exercise. I have a large fenced in area, about 100 x 100 feet.

It seems rough to me not having seen it before. I am checking on classes. We did take Molly last year and she would cower in a corner when there were a dozen other dogs in the same room. 

Thanks again!


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## chuckstar158 (Sep 8, 2004)

Diana's advice is spot on... it really does sound like rough-housing play but just from what you're describing. 

Dog play is really rough stuff. My mother in law started screaming bloody murder when she saw my two play a rousing game of "kick







" and still won't let them within ten feet of each other when she's at the house. They look at her like she's nuts.







That was years ago but she's convinced they were in a blood match.


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## chuckstar158 (Sep 8, 2004)

P.S.







to the site...


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: MarcZI allowed this for about 10 minutes yesterday until they became quite rough.


Define "quite rough".

Was there any blood?
Was either dog screaming or crying or trying to get away?

If the answer to those questions is NO then it was just play. Rough play - but just play.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I tend to agree with the responses that define the play as rough, but not vicious. My GSD and my neighbor's black lab go at each throats when they play, but they always seem to know when to let go. 

Most friends that see them play, think it is to rough, but inasmuch as this tough play has gone on for over two years I am not concerned.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Just for reference, here are some videos:

Boxer and Malamute playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guV2Uvxf-pc


Here are two Huskys playing very rough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6gvasr-56I


And more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMW2EqzY8E


The one thing you can see in all these is that at some point the dogs all playbow to each other (where the front end goes down and the butt goes up).


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## marcz (Jul 19, 2006)

Thanks for more info. Rough is growling, jaw snapping both towards the neck and face, up on the hind legs. Today, I let it run longer and as they became tirer, there was less of it. Jesse is quite loyal and comes right back to my side. Molly seems to tempt him by raising her tail. From the little that I know at this point, it seems a test of dominance. Molly usually backs down.

I might also add that Jesse has not been fixed yet. That will happen soon. Will that reduce some of his drive?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'm with the people who say it sounds like play behavior. Before they were gimpy, my two would initiate chase games with one another. They would simulate attacks, growl, snap, bark and chew on one another's necks. Actually, the eldest would insisted the younger dog chew on her neck.


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## jmopaso (Nov 27, 2008)

Our 5 GSD's with the 8 or 9 acres they have to play in, can sound like death unto us all, but they are having a blast. They play games, like "run like mad down the fence line, dodge into the arena, jump onto the bridge, defend the barrel, everybody pile into a growling heap, oh go be sure Mom is ok, what is that horse doing?, omg, there is a squirrel, all the while a growling, snarling, mouth on someones neck, someone is on the ground mess. We of course have the occassional "boo boo" but nothing serious.


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## marcz (Jul 19, 2006)

Ok, that is reassuring, thanks. I have placed them together, by themselves in a large fence enclosure and watching from afar. They are playing well.

Today, we took a walk with them on leashes with myself, my wife, and 10 year old daughter. I usually take them myself. I noticed that neither dog likes it when the other gets attention from one of us. Jesse has a bad habit of jumping up which we're working on. When this happen, Molly doesn't seem to like that. Can they be jealous or is that being protective.

Thanks for the responses.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

The two that play the most at my house is DeeDee 65 lbs and Lakota 105 lbs, they growl, most of the snapping is done be DeeDee, they get up on their hind legs and fight. Also DeeDee will grab the boy by his neck and just hang on, he will roll over her to get her to break the grip but she doesn't. So to the onlooker who doesn't know them it sounds and looks terrible.

Val


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## marcz (Jul 19, 2006)

I had them together for most of the day yesterday. They played quite a bit. It's looking good. 

For training, how do you train them to sit until you want them to more? For example, when I have food for them, I'd like for them to sit and wait.

Thanks.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: MarcZI had them together for most of the day yesterday. They played quite a bit. It's looking good.
> 
> For training, how do you train them to sit until you want them to more? For example, when I have food for them, I'd like for them to sit and wait.
> 
> Thanks.


here's a video, this should be easier to follow than haveing it explained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cBDCtpQ4q4


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