# My sweet heart got in a fight



## brandonb (Nov 9, 2010)

So am still a bit shaken up but here, is what happened as I have a few questions. 

I took Misia to the dog park which was my first mistake. There was a intact male lab. He was playing or letting Misia chase him....so far so good. I was talking to the owner and he attempted to mount Misia and I walked between the two and broke him off my dog. Misia is spayed she had one season but, that was a while back.

I continued to talk to his owner and he was apologizing about that and we moved on. He then attempted to mount her again and that's when her switch was flipped. I have never ever seen this side of her. She got him on the face and the neck before i could run over and break it up. I called Misia off but, the Lab wouldn't leave her be even though he was clearly hurt. He had a collar on so i grabbed it and shoved his neck towards to ground. The dog owner came running over and things only got worse from their. 

He said that "people like me" have no business owning a dangerous breed and, that kids get hurt and or killed because owners are lazy. At this point that set me off as I work with my dog 3-4 days a week sometime less, sometimes more but, she is trained. 

I shouldn't have took the bait but, I said some things I shouldn't have and i have no excuse but, my adrenaline was surging. I did tell him I was able to call my dog off it did take 2-3 commands for what ever reason "leave it" worked. And that I almost spend as much time and money on her than my daughter.

He then said he was going to call the police about my dangerous, aggressive dog. I informed him to please do as I have spoken with the two k9 units we have. Usually about my dog as they stop me or stop and talk to me if they are out and and not busy. There are not alot of GSD's in my town, actually i haven't seen one so she may stand out a bit. 

So am sure he got my license plate number, i didn't run, however i did need to leave before the argument got worse. My concern is Misia wasn't hurt, the lab was but not severe. I don't want her marked as a dangerous dog or on any type of list. 

This is the first time I have ever seen her stick up for her self. I realize the fault if any lies with me. Its crazy as i have a 4 year old daughter and her friends play with Misia they love her, my wife's dog loves her as well as all my family and pets. The worst thing i think i have seen with her and a child is a tail whip or bumping them over. Anyways my questions are this :

Is there a " list" where she could possibly be put on ?
The fact that his dog was hurt, does that make me anymore liable ?
She seems to be fine honestly more than paying a ticket I don't wont her ruined. 

If you have anymore advice feel free to let me know.

P.S. I will never be going to a dog park again. She gets plenty of dog, goat, chicken etc. socialization In her herding class, it just sucks. I feel bad for her.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

A dog park is a free-for-all. 
If the guy doesn't want his dog attacked he needs to stop letting it attempt to mount other dogs. He (the owner) an idiot, and a big-mouth.
The cops would not do anything. Isn't there a sign saying that you play there "at your own risk"?


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Right... Cause Labs never bite 

Sorry, but the meanest, nastiest dog I've ever had the displeasure of knowing was a yellow lab. That dog was a literal menace to anyone that wasn't his owner or the owners wife. It would bite without provocation and would literally chase you down the street to come get the bite...

Don't feel bad. Your dog did nothing wrong. No means no, even in dog...


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> A dog park is a free-for-all.
> If the guy doesn't want his dog attacked he needs to stop letting it attempt to mount other dogs. He (the owner) an idiot, and a big-mouth.


Whole heartedly agree. Humping is not necessarily sexual, it can be dominant behavior. I hate humping dogs. I will NOT allow my dog to be humped and if (when?) the day comes my dog attempts it, I'll shut him down hard and fast. It is just too often a precursor to a fight. It's rude behavior.

Key thing -- you say when the strange dog tried to hump, YOU had to step in -- as in the OWNER did *not* do so. That's key to me. *He should have.* I've found most owners do NOT feel this is a big deal, even more often, they giggle about it. They seem totally oblivious to the fact that a hump is far too often one hump away from a serious dog fight.

The fact that the male was intact likely had little to nothing to do with it. Your girl is spayed. No sexual thing there.

Your girl simply does not like to be humped. No bad on her there!

Just today I shocked myself, I was at the park and some random dog was trying to hump on another and before I even knew what I was doing I was like NO HUMP and broke them up. SO NOT MY PLACE TO DO THAT! Neither were my dogs. Honestly, I had no right or reason to do that. I just did. But YOU most certainly DID have every right and reason to do so, especially since the other owner was a buffoon.

I think you need to defend yourself here. So he got your plate and may make a complaint. I'd try to beat him to it. Send an email about your experience.

Dog parks are very hit or miss. Don't necessarily discount them due to your experience... BUT be a more protective owner... shut down the humpers and don't be afraid to step in if something feels wrong. Who cares what the lax owners think.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Sounds like a stressful situation. If it were me, I would have given my information and offered to pay for at least half of the vet bills. The fact of the matter is that you had no idea how your dog would respond in this situation because, as you said in your post, it was her first time a dog park interacting with strange dogs. In situations like that, the onus really is on you to watch your dog closely and read her signals. As someone who does go to dog parks regularly, I can tell you that most dogs will not attack if another dog randomly mounts them. And, most dogs don't reach the point of attacking another dog without having first given off a lot of signals. It was your responsibility to be paying attention to her signals particularly since this was a new situation for your dog. With that said, I really do not think you have a problem dog... as you said, she is fine with dogs she knows and with everyone in your home... I have no doubt she is a wonderful dog... you may have just learned the hard way that she is not automatically fine in every situation.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

msvette2u said:


> If the guy doesn't want his dog attacked he needs to stop letting it attempt to mount other dogs.


That is true - mounting is rude and the owner should not allow his dog to do that to strange dogs, as it can provoke a fight. For Misia to tell the other dog off is an appropriate response to rude behavior. However, the fact that the other dog was actually injured means that she may have taken it too far. There is blame on the other side too, because the lab did not immediately back down when she reacted - bad owner who doesn't understand dog behavior, and a dog with poor social skills. But that doesn't completely excuse Misia for going over the top. Ideally, she'd be able to tell him off without any injuries and he would get it and back off before it escalated beyond that point. I wouldn't have a problem with my dogs telling another dog off if it crossed a line, but I try very hard to make sure that things never go there. And if they DO, that the response by my dog is as minimal as necessary to get the point across with no harm, no foul. So I guess my perspective is a little different - she did hurt another dog, after all.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

She warned the dog politely and he didn't listen...not that it justifies ripping his face off...was there blood? Punctures?
I tell ya...just from past experience, some of the worst reactions I've seen are from spayed girls having boys sniff their "parts" more than a passing "hi, how are you", a full-fledged nose-in-the-goods type sniff/inhalation. Which often leads to a complimentary hump from the boy. My spayed girls are usually extremely offended by this behavior!


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Dharma does NOT like to be humped. She told one male off at the park who tried it with her and got her point across quite effectively. She didn't draw blood though. She really is not a fighter. She has to be pushed WAY, WAY over her limits to fight. 

I do think there is enough responsibility to go around though- for both parties involved. I don't think it was fair that he called your dog vicious and dangerous though. She may have been a bit overzealous in telling his dog off but his dog should not have been humping her and all up in her business to begin with. She did not just randomly attack him. As I said, there is enough responsibility to go around.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

I agree that it sounds like the owner of the lab over-reacted and was less than civil in handling the situation.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Sounds like self defense to me! Esp. since it happened once and the dog got a warning, then he did it again and caused a bigger reaction. Plus the owner was no where to be found.

You should have gotten the other owners information just in case.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

You know, I have 2 males-I GSD and one Lab. And I LOVE my lab, he is an awesome dog, however when I am outside playing with them, my lab will sometimes get very excited and suddenly decide to try to hump my GSD. The only time my GSD seriously kicked my labs butt was because of this. I don't know what it is with labs and humping. That being said, I sure wouldn't take my lab to a dog park. I think the lab owner is at fault-humpers shouldn't be at dog parks……just sayin.


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## brandonb (Nov 9, 2010)

Thank you for the comments. Misia is only 15 months and being a big dog she is still learning how strong and big she is. I honestly don't think she attempting to hurt the dog but, she did. There was one puncture on the left side of his neck area and a few scratches on his nose and under his right eye. To be honest I think I have cats do worse damage to my dogs when I was a kid. None the less it did draw blood.

I agree completely I should have seen it coming, she is a hackle crazy dog. She will have them up when she is excited and or afraid or upset. She has been attempted to be mounted before and she has been surrounded by a "pack" of dogs both times I firmly broke up that situation as especially at her age, she looks to me to protect her and if I ignore it that is not a good impression. 

I would have paid for all of the labs vet bills but it got rather heated with him and I. A lady who I always see there with her to yorkys walked by and did say what a idiot. In reference to his behavior.It's just a bummer for her, I didn't correct her once but she has bummed out or sad dogging.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Well...either way it's a close call and I hope you don't return to the park (or even go to other parks). You've already seen that regardless of who "starts it", the GSD will be blamed every time.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

The lab's owner was an idiot. His dog was mounting other dogs and he didn't care. Mounting behavior can lead to fights. Again, he should have put more effort in making sure his dog was not instigating or participating in a behavior that could lead to a fight.

I don't think your dog handled it wrong. Your dog is a pretty powerful dog, and a correction from a GSD is likely to cause some bloodshed :/ (not always, but cuts do happen). 

Then panic from the humans may have lead to a worse situation. 

Regardless... the owner of the lab should have done more to stop his dog from being an a$$


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Sounds like there may have been a quieter "Knock it off" that you may have missed while talking to the Lab's owner. It also sounds like she escalated the "NO" to a point of violence. The Lab's owner sounds like an idiot. I bet he thinks its funny when his dog humps another dog to the ground. Some dogs are fairly polite...they just sit down thus rejecting the mounting. That's still a "NO"....and we all know that "NO means NO"
I may also add that the act of wrapping his legs around her hips is called "captivating" and if done hard enough actually is painful to the dog being mounted...it spreads their hips out....enough said there. If this dog captivated her hard enough it may have startled her and hurt her.

Alice used to just explode at dogs that tried this when she was younger. I'd be like..."ENOUGH" "GOT THE POINT".....As she got older, other dogs (always seemed to be intact Labs or Pittys) don't even really try. They will approach, do a gender check (butt sniff) and be ok. Once in awhile an idiot will still attempt to "gauge" her...head over shoulders. She will turn vocalize and show full canines and the other dog usually gets it.
I have also seen her stop a dog in his tracks with "the look"....If a dog gets pushy I say in a very loud voice (for the other owner's sake)
"YOU'RE GONNA GET TOLD NO IN GERMAN BUDDY" 
She now has a "boyfriend" Tank an English Bulldog who at the first meeting attempted it, she gave him a decent (not violent) "NO" and then they started playing. He "loves" her...they play chase back and forth until he collapses....

The fact that your dog exploded her "Knock it off" at this lab, put holes in him and then he came back for more....says alot. He probably doesn't respect boundaries (if any given by his owners) why would he with other dogs. Especially younger females....spayed or not. 
Another reason I avoid dog parks, intact dogs and moronic owners. I don't care if the dogs is intact or not....I do care if the owners are idiots.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Lab at fault. Lab owner, bigger fault for being an idiot. Sadly the GSD got blamed even though she warned him to back off. He pushed the issue, like some males tend to do and she let him have it in very certain terms. Puncture wounds can be viewed as a bit much. HOWEVER, given the breed reputations, had the LAB been the one to initiate the warning, the GSD still would have been in trouble whether it was her fault or not. Just how it works sadly. I would suggest going back to the dog park, without your dog, and see if the witness is there and ask her for a statement so you have proof the lab was at fault just in case. IF i go to a dog park, its usually a calm and quiet 4-5 dogs, no more. And we dont spend more then 20 minutes there. 

The dog park back home, i always went at the same time. The regulars were all dog people through and through and we only ever had issues between dogs when someone brought their dog in and ignored the situation. usually the people who had never been there at that time to begin with. There was a bull terrier who caused a great deal of trouble the 3 times he was there. Riley has MAJOR saint bernard issues because of one saint who had no business around other dogs in general but she targeted him the majority when she was there. My dogs pretty much get along with everyone. Even my dominant bitch Zena. If i dont know the dogs, they're not playing with mine. Its safer and smarter that way. Try a good doggie daycare. Better supervision and rules that are followed. I dont think your girl is damaged by the experience. I do think the lab owner needs a swift hard smack in the head and his dog needs some training....


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I stopped reading after...



brandonb said:


> So am still a bit shaken up but here, is what happened as I have a few questions.
> 
> I took Misia to the dog park


Dog parks are a recipe for disaster. Any idiot can bring their dog to these places and that's how fights break out. Whether it's your fault or the other owners fault, this type of situation was bound to happen if you went enough times. If not this time than the next time. If not the next time than the time after that....


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> Well...either way it's a close call and I hope you don't return to the park (or even go to other parks). You've already seen that regardless of who "starts it", the GSD will be blamed every time.


It is sad, but you are totally right. Whenever trouble brews between two dogs in public, the assumption is that the GSD is the guilty party.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> If it were me, I would have given my information and offered to pay for at least half of the vet bills.


In my humble opinion, there is no reason at all for the OP to even consider paying any of the vet bills because this was entirely the Lab owner's fault. The owner did nothing when his Lab was humping the Shepherd. Not even after the OP broke it up ONCE already. Stupid owner. Let him pay the bill for his stupidity.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Asking not saying. In a case like this would pro-actively discussing with the police be a good thing or would just letting it drop unless something comes up be the way to go? At the very least maybe discussing with some of the folks in the herding class.

I would definitely say that reaction was a bit overkill unless the punctures were due to the dog persisting and were not the first line of defense. I have seen some scary looking fights that were clearly that with nothing but slobber all over the other dog. So that I would bring up with someone one on one.

I don't know anything about dog park rules because people seem to be clueless about their dogs and not even watching them to see what is going on. Good call to never go back. Figure this guys dog will get bit more than once if he does not get a handle on this. [and then intact dogs won't be allowed to come play-even though it has not to do with that]


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Lab owners fault but the GSD will be blamed. My experience w/ Daisy made me realize one thing people lame the scarier dog. daisy would get bullied by a Rottie male and because she would be consequenced she would put up w/ more and then she would explode.She drew blood once on his ear but used her chest and knocked him head over butt. he was a mean dog w/ other dogs. I stopped going to puppy play as daisy was just getting worse and she as a rule loved male dogs except him.. i dont know so many situations rise that you have little control over it seems a risk not worth going to dog parks.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Also, dog parks tend to be filthy places. Look at the water bowl? How often do you think it gets washed with hot water and soap.
Most people treat the park as an informal Starbucks.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

AbbyK9 said:


> In my humble opinion, there is no reason at all for the OP to even consider paying any of the vet bills because this was entirely the Lab owner's fault. The owner did nothing when his Lab was humping the Shepherd. Not even after the OP broke it up ONCE already. Stupid owner. Let him pay the bill for his stupidity.


ditto,


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I agree with AbbyK9 too. 

When I read these posts I try to imagine what I would do if the injured dog was mine. In this case it would have been my fault that my dog continued this behavior. I would have apologized to the other dog owner, leashed my dog and go straight to the vets, pay my bill and be thankful that I didn't have to pay a vet bill for the other owner too. 

In this case i feel that it would have been my fault and my responsibility.

So the owner of the lab as at fault but wants the responsibility to fall on the dog that bite his. What incentive wold he ever have to control his dogs behavior, which unfortunately he does not see as a problem. Hopefully he has learned a lesson, doubt it.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> In this case i feel that it would have been my fault and my responsibility.


But you're a responsible, caring owner who understands at least the basics of dog body language and behavior.
Other owners often make no such attempts, and simply own dogs as they might a house plant or a fish, with no attempt to train it or understand why it might do what it does.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

Guess I'm as guilty as many others in sometimes forgetting our breeds characteristics. GSD don't get pushed around very easily and most of them have a quick trigger. 

You may or may not be liable for the lab's vet bills. Were there witnesses that saw the lab repeatedly mount your dog? Probably you are looking at being banned from the park, no biggy, and maybe some vet expense. The police may not respond since no person was hurt and the dog only had slight injuries. Since your dog was not trespassing in the lab's yard, a dog fight would not be a crime. A civil action would be more likely, but not very. 

Can't believe all the dog park incidents here in the last couple days. Dogs parks will have to be listed high on dangerous places for dogs.


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## Warrior09 (May 8, 2011)

Bella my spayed rottie will not let any male dogs mount her. Hachi tried it once and when she snapped at him not even to bring blood though, he knew his boundaries with her. There are neighbor dogs that come in the yard and tries to mount her and she lays it to them, but I break it up even though i get a bite here and there on me and i make the dog leave. Idk whos dogs they belong to, so i cant call the owner and tell them what happened. And i agree with one post on here, I think when a female gets spayed she gets very protective over herself as far as that. Which i heard that when you get a female spayed they lose that sexual drive and so does males. I have a intact chihuahua in the house and he humps everything, Its not cute or funny but what can you do when he catches you a sleep and does it LOL. He is actually a smart dog but when we let him go outside he wont try humping Bella. They love each other though but he knows not to. She has never bared her teeth at him which to be honest he is so tiny he looks like a teacup chihuahua LOL weights 2-3 pounds at least and has the same color as Bella and my guess is that she sees him as a puppy. I figured i would through my two senses in lol

As for the lab owner he should have corrected him by leashing him for a while until you and your gsd was ready to leave and then let him off leash. Thats what i would have done. AS for the yelling back and forth to the owner, my temper is pretty bad but i don't start trouble though, id probably would had a few words and maybe a punch in the face for running his mouth on me exspecially since it wasn't your or your dogs fault at first.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

The thing is, dogs may do fine 9 times, the owner's all "Oh my dog gets along with everyone", then the 10th time, there's a disaster. People get lulled into thinking everything is wonderful at the parks, but I will guarantee your dog will not like all dogs it comes across. It's just a matter of time before you find that out and either your dog will be the aggressor or the one being beat up. Many dogs will allow mounting from their own pack but not even a paw on top of the back, or a stiff-legged stance from an outsider. And by the time you realize it, you can't do much to stop it. 

We have a rescue and have integrated around 75-100 dogs per year into our own pack, and also a little "foster dog pack" that we have here at all times. Some dogs just don't click, or they may like everyone but find someone, one day, they cannot get along with.
They are somewhat like humans in that regard, you always run into someone you cannot stand for one reason or another. Only with dogs, it's more instantaneous and they have no scruples to put on a phony smile and act like everything is okay, so in that regard, they are different than us


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about any legal liability. It was both of your faults but mostly the lab owners/labs. You probably could've seen some warning snaps/signals but if you were too busy talking you missed them. It is also clear that you really love your dog, but get it out of your head that she can't do anything wrong. She wanted to hurt the lab! I know you still look at her as a puppy but she is a full grown dog and knows exactly what she is capable of. I have a 15 month old and I thought he wasn't capable of protecting himself, until he turned 1 (literally right on his birthday) and started to stand up for himself. They know exactly what they can do, and that is the reason they can play fight and chew on each other's necks or pin other dogs to the ground without drawing blood or leaving punctures.

I'm sorry but just seeing your thread title "my sweet heart got in a fight" and then seeing you write "she didn't want to hurt him, she just doesn't know any better" really got to me. You have to realize you have a GSD, she hasn't been a puppy for a while now and you have to be able to admit when she has done wrong.


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