# What an absolute abomination of police work in El Monte - GSD Killed



## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Police shooting of pet German shepherd sparks outrage by El Monte family (Video) - SGVTribune.com


This is just unbelievable.

As a former police officer who understands shooting scenarios, this is not one. 

Unacceptable.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Police Departments around the country need to really take a close look at their policies re: pets! This is the second time in a week, on this forum alone, where an incident like this happens and the police department responds by saying it is policy! 

Sorry, that is not acceptable!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Wow...just wow All of my dogs would do the same thing if someone/anyone entered the yard. It scares me to think that it could happen to me to. Not that long ago, my dogs were barking and growling at the door. Even my female GSD and she hardly ever barks. There was something there and I knew it. As I walk to the door a police officer is about 5 ft away from the door shining his flashlight at my dogs and it was pitch black outside. Then he actually had the nerve to ask me if they always bark like that? Really? What did he expect them to do, I could hardly see him. They were doing there job. I just looked at him really stupid, then he went on to ask how many I have. I told him and he says I don't think you can have that many. I said oh yes I can, check with the village(I already know the laws and I knew I was right) Bottom line is that he was mad that they barked at him and he thought he was going to cause trouble. REALLY made me mad


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

It's an easy subject to get emotional on. I try not to do that.

Just applying common sense and my training over the years, this appears to be completely unwarranted and irresponsible on the officers part.

Very sad that they had to put their dog down. I would have gave them the 7K if I knew about this before hand. So sad that some paper with green ink on it was the difference in life and death for that poor dog.

All she was doing was protecting. 

I guess the officer had reading problems. I certainly would have never entered a yard with a sign so present. No way.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ImJaxon said:


> I guess the officer had reading problems. I certainly would have never entered a yard with a sign so present. No way.


Its interesting because I have a beware of dog sign on the very door that the officer was harassing my dogs. Yes its harassment when a person keeps doing what they are doing knowing that they are causing a reaction.


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## Fade2Black (Apr 30, 2012)

Just another example. Cops get away with this stuff all the time. Their badge is a license to do as they please. Then comes the lies coverups and denials.....


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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

Wow this is just disgusting. And for the dept. to not cover the cost of the surgery is even more so. I posted a thread just like this of a similar incident. At least this one is all on tape and its clear the officers were in the wrong


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My back yard is fenced in, my front yard is open. No one has to open my gate to get to my front door. If they did, and I let my dogs rome in the fenced area, then these issues might happen more often. 

Personally, I think if they knew the cops were coming, they should have put the dogs up or had been outside with them. I know, blaming the victim, but what is it with all these GSDs just hanging around in the back while someone gets all the way to the door. My girls are alerting when the car slows down to come into the driveway. Certainly by the time the car stops in the driveway they are barking, and they would be at the car door before it opened if they were loose.


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

What will come back to burn this guy is that he is very calm and is not startled by the dog running at the fence line. His feet don't move. He doesn't jump back. He calmly pulls his service weapon and fires right into the dog intentionally. But I do not think he will be disciplined or fired. He will get a case of "I feared for my life", and it will go away. The City of El Monte already knows that the family has no money. No money to do surgery on the dog, means no money to hire a lawyer to sue. A lawyer looking for press should take this on Pro Bono.


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## Fade2Black (Apr 30, 2012)

Not a GSD but here is another recent one. Police raid the wrong apartment and kill an Iraq war Vets dog that was tied up....

Police Raid Wrong Apartment, Kill Owners Dog

*Police Raid Wrong Apartment, Kill Owners Dog *



6/5/2013 11:12 AM ET 
A drug raid allegedly at the wrong apartment, went awry when police in Buffalo, New York killed the dog of an Iraq War veteran.
The incident happened earlier this week when the tenant received a call from his landlord who told him what had just happened. The landlord told Adam Arroyo that Buffalo Police raided his place and killed his dog, WGRZ.com reports.
Arroyo, who was at work at the time of the call, instantly started to cry and rushed home. He returned to his place trashed, with a search warrant and no police or his almost 3-year-old pit bull Cindy to be found.
There were bullets left on the ground inside, with visible blood stains.
The search warrant was for the "upper" apartment of the complex. But according to Arroyo, his residence is considered the "upper rear," WGRZ.com reports. Arroyo additionally said "They were looking for a black male. I'm Hispanic. Puerto Rican. And, they were looking for crack/cocaine."
Officials who executed the warrant found nothing inside but a baton and pepper spray the victim said he uses for safety. 
Arroyo said, "People make mistakes, but this is something, it was a very big mistake, you know, especially coming in here and killing an innocent dog that is chained up. I could understand it if the dog was loose and it charged, then you know that gives them probable cause because they fear for their life, but to shoot an innocent dog that doesn't pose a threat," WGRZ.com reports.
An internal investigation is underway.


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Selzer, I agree that if they knew the officers were coming they should have put the dogs up. Reading the story at face value, it doesn't look right. Even the shooting doesn't look right to me.

Still, I will try to remain objective, as when you are an officer, you are supposed to honor the brotherhood. I have modified that honor a bit, and I can't support a cold blooded killing if it wasn't within the guidelines of the use of force.

Will be interesting to see what happens as other details come out.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

The whole event is sad and its scary to hear not only the officers lie, but for their captain to back them on it. The video says it all, they did nothing but enter casually ignoring the sign and to delay treatment for the dog makes me sick. On the other side of the issue I would not let my dogs have free roam in the front yard knowing that the police (strangers to the dog) were coming. I would at least put a lock on the front gate perhaps with a buzzer so people couldn't walk in unannounced.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

ImJaxon said:


> Selzer, I agree that if they knew the officers were coming they should have put the dogs up. Reading the story at face value, it doesn't look right. Even the shooting doesn't look right to me.
> 
> Still, I will try to remain objective, as when you are an officer, you are supposed to honor the brotherhood. I have modified that honor a bit, and I can't support a cold blooded killing if it wasn't within the guidelines of the use of force.
> 
> Will be interesting to see what happens as other details come out.


Ya know, I don't give cops a free pass. I just don't. But I don't give owners a free pass either. We are ultimately in charge of our dogs, we need to protect them. 

There is this yayhoo where my sister lives who lets his dog run around because he has an invisible fence, even though it does NOT contain his dog. When this dog charges at me, while I am walking my dog with my nieces, and I holler out to them to contain their **** dog, they get angry with me. 

Why do they have an e-fence that goes up to the sidewalk in front, and the dog definitely charges onto the sidewalk? They are not protecting their dog when they do this. 

I see a situation like this one, and I do not think I can do anything about cops doing whatever they do. But I can keep my front yard accessible, and I can put the dogs in crates or kennels when I have cops or anyone coming. 

I think there are cops that will treat a suspect's dog with unnecessary violence. I think the people in an apartment had some weed, that was it. The cops came in, scared the kids, searched the apartment, and killed the dog that was in a dog crate. What could possibly make a cop feel they should shoot a dog that is crated? I hope that incident had some cops fired. 

But it is still rare. It's rare. Really. We can find these incidents, here and there, but it is certainly not like it's an epidemic.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I think this sucks. It really does. I feel for this family. 

One side note though, in the officers favor, they did not shoot the PitBull. They were seen on video petting the dog and being responsible by going back and shutting the gate behind them. Which they had left open, because I don't think they thought there were dogs in the yard. 

The officer that shot the dog, did try harder to get the family to open the door. 

I still don't think it was right. But u don't think these were trigger happy cops. They put themselves in a bad situation, the family put their dogs in a bad situation and a living family dog had to be PTS. 

Hopefully a lesson wil be learned and rules tightened with all officers in how to enter a fenced yard. 

But my heart goes out to this family. It really does. Stuff like this terrifies me. Addresses get messed up, LE busts into wrong houses, pets get killed. I would be inconsolable if it happened to me and my dogs. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Agree 100000% that we are responsible for our own animals.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

gsdsar said:


> I think this sucks. It really does. I feel for this family.
> 
> One side note though, in the officers favor, they did not shoot the PitBull.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



This was back in 2008, I'm sure its worse now and this is just in New York.
The NYPD Releases Detailed Data on Dogs They've Shot, But Not on The People - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> This was back in 2008, I'm sure its worse now and this is just in New York.
> The NYPD Releases Detailed Data on Dogs They've Shot, But Not on The People - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice


Ok, I see 78 dogs shot in '97 or '98 and 30 in 2006. But it does not tell us whether those dogs were attacking them, or strays having attacked people, or actually set on them, or attacking becuse they were going after a suspect. 

We are not talking about 78 dogs that were shot due to cops going to the wrong address. If you are dealing drugs or some other violent criminal, and the cops come to arrest you and your dog is acting like a problem, which some of our dogs would if a bunch of strange guys rushed into our home and took us down and hand cuffed us. Babs might just lay on the bed and say, "not in my job description." But she also might come in and try to take on the lot of them. 

In some ways I am thinking, only 78? only 30? These figures include strays that are chaing kids, and dogs in the homes of suspects. How many wrong addresses? How many unjustifyable shootings?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> In some ways I am thinking, only 78? only 30? These figures include strays that are chaing kids, and dogs in the homes of suspects. How many wrong addresses? How many unjustifyable shootings?




One dog being shot is a problem, it shouldn't happen in this day and age. There are so many ways to prevent it. I can bet if a regular person shot a dog because they were in danger they would face some kind of penalty. IMO, they are ALL unjustifiable.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

An ordinary person is not going to burst into a dog owner's home. An ordinary person isn't going to take a dog owner to the ground. I really don't know what my dogs would do in that situation, but it is possible that they will try to do something. 

If an officer can neutralize the dog safely in a different manner that takes no more time or conscious thought, attention, then I think most of them will. But I feel the officer's life is more important than any dog, mine included. If a cop has his hands tied up with a catch pole, or is fiddling around for pepper spray, and a violent criminal gets the advantage because of it, you are asking a cop to put his life below the lives of dogs. That is pretty cold, really.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> If a cop has his hands tied up with a catch pole, or is fiddling around for pepper spray, and a violent criminal gets the advantage because of it, you are asking a cop to put his life below the lives of dogs. That is pretty cold, really.


This is really just absurd....Its just as easy to grab the pepper spray as it is to grab a gun. So if the officer is fiddling around for the pepper spray, he would be fiddling around for his gun to.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> This is really just absurd....Its just as easy to grab the pepper spray as it is to grab a gun. So if the officer is fiddling around for the pepper spray, he would be fiddling around for his gun to.


Pepper spray works for a number of feet, 5 feet, 10 feet. If he is in a situation where he may be facing an assailant with a gun who is 20 feet away, and he has pepper spray in his hand, he is a dead duck. 

Properly, he would have the gun in his hand and he can take the dog, and then turn immediately to the person with the gun. 

Don't let your dogs charge at cops and you won't have to worry about it. If they come into your home, while you are there or not there, then your dog may not make it. Wrong address or not. But will you keep your dog constantly in a crate to ensure that he is not shot justifyably because there is a tiny percentage of a risk that a cop might get the address wrong and barge in thinking you are the leader of a highly violent terrorist scumbag cell?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

selzer said:


> Pepper spray works for a number of feet, 5 feet, 10 feet. If he is in a situation where he may be facing an assailant with a gun who is 20 feet away, and he has pepper spray in his hand, he is a dead duck.
> 
> Properly, he would have the gun in his hand and he can take the dog, and then turn immediately to the person with the gun.
> 
> Don't let your dogs charge at cops and you won't have to worry about it. If they come into your home, while you are there or not there, then your dog may not make it. Wrong address or not. But will you keep your dog constantly in a crate to ensure that he is not shot justifyably because there is a tiny percentage of a risk that a cop might get the address wrong and barge in thinking you are the leader of a highly violent terrorist scumbag cell?


Put it perspective, they were called there to take a report of a runaway/missing child. Easy enough to take note of a sign posted at face level on the gate and call or have dispatch call the homeowner out. A little precaution on the part of the police could have saved a lot of heartache. Yes the homeowner could have kept them out of harms way to, but this was completely unnecessary.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

They knew the cops were coming, what were they thinking? Go out with the dogs, or bring the dog in, if your front yard has a fence and the only way to the door is through it. 

The cop was banging on the door when the dog got to her. If this was my dog, they would have been hanging out at the fence when the car pulled up. I do not think it would be ridiculous for a cop to think that the people had the dog up, it wasn't out there, and they were expected.

The dog owners failed their dog. Maybe the cops could have done something different, but I blame the dog owner. Maybe because I can't control cops, but I can make my dogs safer.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

Nigel said:


> Put it perspective, they were called there to take a report of a runaway/missing child. Easy enough to take note of a sign posted at face level on the gate and call or have dispatch call the homeowner out. A little precaution on the part of the police could have saved a lot of heartache. Yes the homeowner could have kept them out of harms way to, but this was completely unnecessary.


I agree and they were an hour late getting there. IDK, it's an awful situation.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

selzer said:


> They knew the cops were coming, what were they thinking? Go out with the dogs, or bring the dog in, if your front yard has a fence and the only way to the door is through it.
> 
> The cop was banging on the door when the dog got to her. If this was my dog, they would have been hanging out at the fence when the car pulled up. I do not think it would be ridiculous for a cop to think that the people had the dog up, it wasn't out there, and they were expected.
> 
> The dog owners failed their dog. Maybe the cops could have done something different, but I blame the dog owner. Maybe because I can't control cops, but I can make my dogs safer.


Maybe they did have the dogs put up around the time the police were initially supposed to be there, but as time passed let them out for a potty break, maybe the cops were asked to call and agreed to do so, who knows. The fact that the officers tried to lie about their arrival is poop!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

trcy said:


> I agree and they were an hour late getting there. IDK, it's an awful situation.


LOL!!!! An hour???

When we lived in Cleveland, there was one cop and one car for our district -- yeah only one officer to serve warrants too, but whatever. Anyhow, there was this crazy man across the street. We called him the crazy man, because we didn't know the term for perverts. Well, he was in his thirties and his girlfriend was 16, living in -- where was her parent? Whatever. 

Anyhow, he would regularly fight with her and beat on her. My brothers and sisters and I would stand on the porch because we figured he wouldn't kill her if there were witnesses. It was Monday night at the Fights, Tuesday night at the Fights, Friday night at the Fights, Saturday Night at the Fights. It would escalate, and we saw him chasing her around the house -- outside, with a ball bat. 

The little old lady next door, would come out then and inform them that she had called the police. 

4 HOURS later the police would show up and they would be all calmed down, watching the tv and telling the cop how the neighbor was a nosey busy body.

When my mom was attacked downtown coming home from work, she was able to fight off the guy. It was a friday night. On Monday she started parking in the lot inside the building and told the attendant what had happened, and he encouraged her to call the police because there had been several complaints the same over there. When she got home, she called the police and told them it happened last Friday, and they were over there in 20 minutes, LOL!

For cops to be 1 hour late is not the end of the world. Did they just expect that the cops weren't going to come, so they let the dogs out again?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nigel said:


> Maybe they did have the dogs put up around the time the police were initially supposed to be there, but as time passed let them out for a potty break, maybe the cops were asked to call and agreed to do so, who knows. The fact that the officers tried to lie about their arrival is poop!


If I am expecting someone to come to my home, then I will take the dogs out for a potty break. And then take them back in. I will go out with them. No way am I going to leave them to guard the property when the only way to the front door is through them, and I am expecting them. An hour later or not. If they did not call to say they are not coming, than I would still be thinking they were coming an hour later. Three hours later, I would be calling to find out what happened.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

The dog owners weren't the ones who pulled out a gun and shot their dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Gharrissc said:


> The dog owners weren't the ones who pulled out a gun and shot their dogs.


They may as well have. If we put our dogs in a position where they are likely to charge and attack someone, we are pulling the trigger.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Maybe it's just been a long day for me....but please point me in the direction of the gum drop paved roads with cotton candy clouds. I just don't know where some of these outlandish opinions come from. I don't know what some of you want these cops to do??

If the police are coming to your home put your darn dog away. They have no idea what they are responding to.

This happened where I grew up....wife calls police to report vandalism in her yard, police respond, wife already killed husband before making the call, cop enters her home & she killed the cop, then herself. What the heck???


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Courtney said:


> Maybe it's just been a long day for me....but please point me in the direction of the gum drop paved roads with cotton candy clouds. I just don't know where some of these outlandish opinions come from. I don't know what some of you want these cops to do??
> 
> If the police are coming to your home put your darn dog away. They have no idea what they are responding to.
> 
> This happened where I grew up....wife calls police to report vandalism in her yard, police respond, wife already killed husband before making the call, cop enters her home & she killed the cop, then herself. What the heck???


I've pointed out earlier in the thread both the homeowner and police bear some responsibility in this, however why did the cops lie? The video clearly shows their nonchalant approach. Both parties could have taken measures to prevent this, but one is supposed to be professional and more importantly honest.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Courtney said:


> Maybe it's just been a long day for me....but please point me in the direction of the gum drop paved roads with cotton candy clouds. I just don't know where some of these outlandish opinions come from. I don't know what some of you want these cops to do??
> 
> If the police are coming to your home put your darn dog away. They have no idea what they are responding to.
> 
> This happened where I grew up....wife calls police to report vandalism in her yard, police respond, wife already killed husband before making the call, cop enters her home & she killed the cop, then herself. What the heck???


And, we expect every cop out there to not want to shoot dogs, yes, most of them have dogs and like dogs, but they HAVE to be able to shoot a dog. Just like, they HAVE to be able to shoot a person. 

They shouldn't like to shoot a person. But they have to get over that, or they will be one of the dead cops that is doing nobody any good. So they have to have a mindset that says, sometimes, I am going to have to shoot a person. 

And we expect them to NOT have a mindset that allows them to shoot a dog that is charging at them. 

Sometimes we get pretty unreal because of our love for our dogs. 

If we LOVE our dogs, we will believe that if they are running loose they will get run over, or shot. We won't let accidents like that happen. If we LOVE our dogs we will expect them to be shot if they are put in the position of attacking anyone. And we won't let that happen. If we LOVE our dogs we will be responsible for them. If we LOVE our dogs, we will be angry when people totally disregard a reasonable level of safety concerning their dogs.


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## Fade2Black (Apr 30, 2012)

> however why did the cops lie?


Because they can.....Peter Keane, a former San Francisco Police commissioner, wrote an article in The San Francisco Chronicle decrying a police culture that treats lying as the norm.....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

They lie all the time to suspects. They tell them that their buddies ratted them out, to get them to rat out their buddies. I'm guessing that's just part of interrogation. We expect them to lie to suspects, but not to lie at any other time -- and you, you had better not lie to them. 

Well, I always thought that was kind of a double standard, but I figure I will just keep out of their way, and I won't have to worry about that. 

And maybe, when people lie to you about everything and anything, even when the truth would be more likely and serve as well, and not gain or lose anything, they lie. Maybe being in that environment chronically doesn't go without some effects.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> If I am expecting someone to come to my home, then I will take the dogs out for a potty break. And then take them back in. I will go out with them. No way am I going to leave them to guard the property when the only way to the front door is through them, and I am expecting them. An hour later or not. If they did not call to say they are not coming, than I would still be thinking they were coming an hour later. Three hours later, I would be calling to find out what happened.


Thats unreasonable. My first thought would be that the police got tied up in something else and when they had time to deal with me they would call and reschedule. This was an appointment, not them randomly coming. It doesn't even matter the dog is dead and everyone will always have their own opinions. I just hope that nobody on here has to go through it. The police waited a long time to take this dog to the vet, that was problem number one. I don't see how people don't see this kind of stuff. They shot the dog, the dog was alive, take it in immediately, not wait for animal control. Yes everyone plays a role, but the police ultimately decided the fate of this dog. They even backed out of paying for it...its just crazy and its never going to stop. Its not even a matter of them shooting the dog in most cases..it then becomes about mistakes that led up to it and mistakes made after it. Nobody suffers but the dog.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

selzer said:


> They lie all the time to suspects. They tell them that their buddies ratted them out, to get them to rat out their buddies. I'm guessing that's just part of interrogation. We expect them to lie to suspects, but not to lie at any other time -- and you, you had better not lie to them.
> 
> Well, I always thought that was kind of a double standard, but I figure I will just keep out of their way, and I won't have to worry about that.
> 
> And maybe, when people lie to you about everything and anything, even when the truth would be more likely and serve as well, and not gain or lose anything, they lie. Maybe being in that environment chronically doesn't go without some effects.


They didn't only lie, they broke their word!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

cops don't make "appointments" to come out. Heck, even the cable company doesn't make "appointments" as to when they will be at your house. The best you can hope for is that they actually show up between 9am and noon and not 3:45 when you've already left for work. And it's your fault that your appointment was missed because it is only a "guideline"
Police show up to the next call when they finish the one they are on. Period. It might be 20 minutes, it might be 5 hours. On any given night in the county I live in, there are max 2 cops on duty. They cover just under 600square miles. If you call and they are on the far side of the county, it's a minimum of an hour. That is if they are in their car, just patrolling. If they are up Push Mountain, you are looking at over an hour drive just to get down to the highway and then another hour to get to the other side of the county. If they are handling another situation, you're looking at several hours.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mrs.K said:


> They didn't only lie, they broke their word!



An hour late is breaking their word? Wow. That's just wild. 

Let's talk culture here for a sec. My friend was in the peace corps in Africa and then went back for more years to run a school over there. They had a saying, "African Time." Because they were always late, hours late. That is normal. That is not breaking your word. 

Who's word are we going on that it was an appointment anyway? I agree, I have never heard of cops making an appointment. Never. They tell you thursday evening after five, which can be anywhere from five oclock on. And, you have to expect them to be hung up on a call. It is not like making pizzas where it takes three minutes to get it in the oven and 15 to bake. And even with pizzas they don't _always_ get them to your home in 30 minutes.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

selzer said:


> An hour late is breaking their word? Wow. That's just wild.
> 
> Let's talk culture here for a sec. My friend was in the peace corps in Africa and then went back for more years to run a school over there. They had a saying, "African Time." Because they were always late, hours late. That is normal. That is not breaking your word.
> 
> Who's word are we going on that it was an appointment anyway? I agree, I have never heard of cops making an appointment. Never. They tell you thursday evening after five, which can be anywhere from five oclock on. And, you have to expect them to be hung up on a call. It is not like making pizzas where it takes three minutes to get it in the oven and 15 to bake.  And even with pizzas they don't _always_ get them to your home in 30 minutes.


What I think she meant was. They broke their word because they said they would pay for medical treatment of the dog and then later refused to. They lied because they said they jingled the gate to see if any dogs were outside, but they didnt do that, as the video clearly shows. After the release of the video the El Monte police Dept is not commenting. I live in the next city over. This police Dept has lots of issues and the people in the city haven't trusted them for awhile now.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Msmaria said:


> What I think she meant was. They broke their word because they said they would pay for medical treatment of the dog and then later refused to. They lied because they said they jingled the gate to see if any dogs were outside, but they didnt do that, as the video clearly shows. After the release of the video the El Monte police Dept is not commenting. I live in the next city over. This police Dept has lots of issues and the people in the city haven't trusted them for awhile now.


Thanks, I am getting my threads confused. I forgot about the cops agreeing to pay in the one incident and then recinding the offer.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Selzer, a lot of people get GSDs for protection. Even if they don't get them trained as PPDs or anything, just having a GSD around makes people feel safer. 

You're saying that people who get a GSD should always crate their dog just in case some cop happens to get an address wrong and they bust into your house, and the GSD does what it's hardwired to do (protect you) and it gets killed? 
Logic.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Then why have a dog at all, if you can't even leave your dog out on YOUR property!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

selzer said:


> An hour late is breaking their word? Wow. That's just wild.
> 
> Let's talk culture here for a sec. My friend was in the peace corps in Africa and then went back for more years to run a school over there. They had a saying, "African Time." Because they were always late, hours late. That is normal. That is not breaking your word.
> 
> Who's word are we going on that it was an appointment anyway? I agree, I have never heard of cops making an appointment. Never. They tell you thursday evening after five, which can be anywhere from five oclock on. And, you have to expect them to be hung up on a call. It is not like making pizzas where it takes three minutes to get it in the oven and 15 to bake. And even with pizzas they don't _always_ get them to your home in 30 minutes.



No, they said they'd cover the vet costs and once they found out it would be 7000 dollars to treat the dog, they broke their word and the dog had to be euthanized.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

That's it. I'm installing video at my place. 

Very disappointed in these officers.


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Since this incident, I have decided to get a buzzer for my pedestrian gate and I will keep my vehicle gates closed to foot traffic. Between that and the backyard where Jaxon lives most of the time is a 7 foot fence that no one is getting over without injuring themselves. I live in a great neighborhood, but I won't be letting him run loose in the front yard with the gates closed. He's already a very protective boy and he runs the wrought iron fence end to end a few hundred feet when the wrong person walks by. I'm also installing security cameras around the house. If anything happens on my property at least I will have evidence. It's really too bad that in 2013 you have to live by a "Trust no one" mentality. Oh well. Better to protect your family and your self as much as possible, than to become one of the systems statistics because you didn't safeguard yourself and try to avert some of the risk that comes with owning a GSD. I'll take my chances, I love my dog.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Not only did they take back there offer to pay, they made that poor dog lay there for over an hour before they took it in. That dog had to be in pain and had to be suffering. Over my dead body would they allow my dog to lay there bleeding and in pain for more then a minute.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Not only did they take back there offer to pay, they made that poor dog lay there for over an hour before they took it in. That dog had to be in pain and had to be suffering. Over my dead body would they allow my dog to lay there bleeding and in pain for more then a minute.


I agree. I just dont understand why they waited for the police to take him to the vet. its not like the homeowners were under arrest or anything. I would have told the police they have to come back because I have to take my dog to the vet. Then send them the bill for damaged property.


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

LifeofRiley said:


> Police Departments around the country need to really take a close look at their policies re: pets! This is the second time in a week, on this forum alone, where an incident like this happens and the police department responds by saying it is policy!
> 
> Sorry, that is not acceptable!


I'm not a big fan of Cops anymore. Up until five years ago I believed Cops were always on the side of the angels and didn't believe anyone who claimed cops lied/misbehaved etc. Then I ran into one who falsified information on a a report, two who refused to make any effort to find the people who burglarized my house and one who blatantly used his badge to bully. I have had absolutely no respect for them ever since then, and have been now that I've been paying attention to reports of police misbehavior, abuse and outright stupidity I wonder how I could have been so blind for so many years. This seems to be a fairly typical example of the arrogance and stupidity of so many people with badges and guns. 

Jelpy


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

As a former LE, I can tell you there are definitely bad cops. I worked with some of them.

There are bad apples everywhere.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Jelpy said:


> I'm not a big fan of Cops anymore. Up until five years ago I believed Cops were always on the side of the angels and didn't believe anyone who claimed cops lied/misbehaved etc. Then I ran into one who falsified information on a a report, two who refused to make any effort to find the people who burglarized my house and one who blatantly used his badge to bully. I have had absolutely no respect for them ever since then, and have been now that I've been paying attention to reports of police misbehavior, abuse and outright stupidity I wonder how I could have been so blind for so many years. This seems to be a fairly typical example of the arrogance and stupidity of so many people with badges and guns.
> 
> Jelpy


Something similar happened to me. I was home alone when someone walked/broke into our home. The dogs chased the intruder out but I did not get to see him because I was in the bathroom and by the time I was done, whoever it was, was gone. Ya think they would send someone, right? After all someone broke into your home. 

NOPE! Not out here. They frickin CALLED back to calm me down, thats it, because nothing unusual was known to go on in the neighborhood. 
Later that day someone again broke in. This time into the garage and thats when they finally sent someone to, take the report. 

To protect and serve, eh? 

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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

Mrs.K said:


> NOPE! Not out here. They frickin CALLED back to calm me down, thats it, because nothing unusual was known to go on in the neighborhood.
> Later that day someone again broke in. This time into the garage and thats when they finally sent someone to, take the report.
> 
> To protect and serve, eh?
> ...


I'm a very calm person. I was robbed at gunpoint once and nobody believed me because I was to calm. I eventually convinced the sheriiff who answered the phone that I was indeed just robbed at gunpoint and I didn't call 911, because it was no longer an emergency they were gone now. It was in a business so we needed a police report.....

Anyway, when a person who was a bit "off" kept banging on my front door more and more violently wanting in I called 911 and purposely acted scared, like those 911 calls they play on tv and the police were there in 5 minutes. It's sad you have to be a drama queen to get a police response. By the way he was arrested....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Konotashi said:


> Selzer, a lot of people get GSDs for protection. Even if they don't get them trained as PPDs or anything, just having a GSD around makes people feel safer.
> 
> You're saying that people who get a GSD should always crate their dog just in case some cop happens to get an address wrong and they bust into your house, and the GSD does what it's hardwired to do (protect you) and it gets killed?
> Logic.


No, I have said over and over again, I am not going to keep my dogs stuck in a crate 24/7 because some cop might and adress wrong and burst into my home and murder my dogs. I still think it is pretty slim chance that will ever happen, and I refuse to lose sleep over it.

But if you have a dog for protection, trained or not, protection or deterrent, and you have the cops coming to your home. And there is no way to the door but through a fenced yard. Then don't leave the dogs out there to accost to police. Bring them in until the cops have come and gone, or go outside with them so you can call them off. 

What do people expect the cops to do? Stand at the gate and Hallooo until someone comes and assures them that there are no dogs or tigers or bears or pet alligators waiting to take a chunk out of their leg?


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

selzer said:


> What do people expect the cops to do? Stand at the gate and Hallooo until someone comes and assures them that there are no dogs or tigers or bears or pet alligators waiting to take a chunk out of their leg?


No. 

They should have done what protocol says they should have done, and what they LIED and SAID they did (when the video clearly shows otherwise) and heeded the "BEWARE OF DOG" sign, looked for signs of dogs (poop, toys, etc), shook the gate, etc. _Like they're supposed to do. _ Protocol isn't there for  s and giggles. It's there for their own safety.

ETA: Since everyone is sharing crap-cop stories, I'll throw mine out there. I called for help (won't go into details), and when they got there, the officers told me that strangulation is an acceptable form of punishment. So needless to say, I've lost respect for cops as well.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I called the cops once about a dunken idiot that I should have called the cops about. Anyhow, they asked his name. I did not know his name. I told them I could describe him, what he wore, how he smelled, what vehicle he drove. They asked if I had a license plate number. I did not. 

They said they couldn't do anything without a name and address for the man. 

So I had to go to the store and ask about him, and then I had to find out some other information, and get my dad involved, so that I could provide the cops with the guy's name and address. LOL. 

After I did provide that information, they did take care of the problem though. 

It doesn't make me lose all respect for cops, but it gives me more insight into what they can/can't, will/won't do. And the incidents that I have had dealings with police does not mean all police everywhere are the same, it is not even a general cross-section of cop-behavior, because it really depends on the department or the area how cops' behavior will often be better overall in an area because the various organizations will require a standard of behavior, and organizations nearby will be effected by that and strive to be on the same level.

Perhaps in areas where violent crime is the norm, cops behave differently from those in areas where violent crime is rare. 

Losing respect from all cops everywhere because one cop acted poorly in your opinion, or told you something you disagree with is kind of like losing all respect for women because one woman did something haneous. If you just don't give cops a free pass because they are cops, that makes sense -- they are human beings, have a variety of cultural and moral norms, and make mistakes.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

There was an armed robbery at a mom & pop store about 2.5 blocks from our house. They caught one suspect at the end of our block on foot. Meanwhile, our neighbor called 911 to report there was a man hiding in her garage behind some sheets of plywood. They basically told her they would get to her as soon as they could as there activity going on in the area and to just keep her house locked up. She waited about 10 minutes and called again saying he's still in there, is anyone gonna come check? Finally after she called a third time and saying she was going out there with another neighbor and a bat the cops decided to check it out realizing that maybe the guy in her garage, a half a block away from where they picked up the first suspect, just might be the other suspect. Lol! The good part is they sent the K9 in after him and the dog made bit of a mess in her garage (blood), but they did send out a clean up guy later.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Since we're telling cop stories, this happened here. The cops had this guy in a cruiser, he was barefoot and handcuffed. He jumped out of the cruiser at the courthouse, and went running. They couldn't catch him. They were searching a block away and more where my parents live. I mean, if you can't outrun a barefoot handcuffed guy, maybe its time to pack it in.

They were interrogating a guy, and went out of the room where the prisoner was. He got up and left the room and went out of the Sherriff's department and took off his jump suit, and naked banged on someone's door and told the lady that he had a fight with his wife, and could he call his cousin. His cousin came and picked him up. They found him hiding in a closet at his cousin's house. But really! It's kind of embarrassing.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

selzer said:


> What do people expect the cops to do? Stand at the gate and Hallooo until someone comes


Must admit this was the first thing I was thinking. So they knew the police were coming......they came LATE not EARLY......and the dogs are still loose in the yard.....


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

The owners need to take some blame for this...not saying 100%, but they need to shoulder a bit of responsibility for what happened. Any time I've ever had a police officer come to the house for whatever reason, all dogs are locked up. Half the officers in the county know my dogs, but they both get put in kennels or upstairs in a bedroom.

When our house got broken into, I waited for the cops, but Finn was banging on the bells to be let out. I leashed him up and got him outside where I noticed a police vehicle out front and an officer coming from the side of the house. If I would've let Finn out off lead, who knows what could've happened, but that's why I leashed him up and had 100% control over him. 

The homeowners knew the cops were coming, so they should've secured their dogs. Even if they needed a potty break...that's what leashes are for and worst case scenario...you stand outside with the dogs. This could've been avoided if the owners were a bit more responsible.


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## Fade2Black (Apr 30, 2012)

Blaming the owner of these dogs is like saying you should blame a woman that got raped because of the skimpy dress she was wearing......

Forget beware of Dogs. How bout a Beware of Police..... Like I said in that other thread. Trigger happy Police don't only shoot innocent dogs. They shoot innocent people. Remember that manhunt in LA for one of there own Christopher Dorner. 10,000 crazed police officers shot up an occupied van delivering newspapers. It loked like a mob hit that would make John Gotti or Al Capone proud. Miracle no one was killed. Then the shot two other civilians because they could......


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Shaolin said:


> The owners need to take some blame for this...not saying 100%, but they need to shoulder a bit of responsibility for what happened. Any time I've ever had a police officer come to the house for whatever reason, all dogs are locked up. Half the officers in the county know my dogs, but they both get put in kennels or upstairs in a bedroom.
> 
> When our house got broken into, I waited for the cops, but Finn was banging on the bells to be let out. I leashed him up and got him outside where I noticed a police vehicle out front and an officer coming from the side of the house. If I would've let Finn out off lead, who knows what could've happened, but that's why I leashed him up and had 100% control over him.
> 
> The homeowners knew the cops were coming, so they should've secured their dogs. Even if they needed a potty break...that's what leashes are for and worst case scenario...you stand outside with the dogs. This could've been avoided if the owners were a bit more responsible.


Calling the police to make a report and the police doing a follow up report are two different things. I would expect that at some point they are going to show up when called to make one. To follow up on one would be last priority and surely put aside if something more important happened. In this situation I would have thought they weren't coming, because again it was a follow up. If I called them myself, the first thing I would do is put them away. I don't believe these people thought they were still coming. I would not consider a follow up report to be of major importance when other people are getting murdered or robbed.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yes! If it's not an emergency situation and they do not have a court order to enter MY address due to an ongoing criminal investigation they better dang wait, or call their dispatch to contact me or double check the dang address or (OMG) come back later. 

Is that REALLY that hard to do in a NON emergency situation?!

Laziness and expediency are *not* valid excuses for shooting people's dogs on their own private property.





selzer said:


> No, I have said over and over again, I am not going to keep my dogs stuck in a crate 24/7 because some cop might and adress wrong and burst into my home and murder my dogs. I still think it is pretty slim chance that will ever happen, and I refuse to lose sleep over it.
> 
> But if you have a dog for protection, trained or not, protection or deterrent, and you have the cops coming to your home. And there is no way to the door but through a fenced yard. Then don't leave the dogs out there to accost to police. Bring them in until the cops have come and gone, or go outside with them so you can call them off.
> 
> What do people expect the cops to do? Stand at the gate and Hallooo until someone comes and assures them that there are no dogs or tigers or bears or pet alligators waiting to take a chunk out of their leg?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Yes! If it's not an emergency situation and they do not have a court order to enter MY address due to an ongoing criminal investigation they better dang wait, or call their dispatch to contact me or double check the dang address or (OMG) come back later.
> 
> Is that REALLY that hard to do in a NON emergency situation?!
> 
> Laziness and expediency are *not* valid excuses for shooting people's dogs on their own private property.



:toasting:

I think I will actually get a custom made sign and post it on the fence, both the doors and garage. 

"IF YOU ARE A POLICE OFFICER SERVING A WARRANT, DOUBLE CHECK YOUR ADDRESS, IF THIS IS NOT AN EMERGENCY, DO NOT ENTER, DOGS ARE ON PREMISES! IF YOU SHOOT THEM, BECAUSE YOU WERE TO LAZY TO VERIFY THE ADDRESS I WILL SHOOT YOU!"


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

Mrs.K said:


> :toasting:
> 
> I think I will actually get a custom made sign and post it on the fence, both the doors and garage.
> 
> "IF YOU ARE A POLICE OFFICER SERVING A WARRANT, DOUBLE CHECK YOUR ADDRESS, IF THIS IS NOT AN EMERGENCY, DO NOT ENTER, DOGS ARE ON PREMISES! IF YOU SHOOT THEM, BECAUSE YOU WERE TO LAZY TO VERIFY THE ADDRESS I WILL SHOOT YOU!"


HAHA. 

I can tell you that if I read that on one of my service calls, I would not enter that gate. I would call the sergeant and have at least one more unit come by. We'd have dispatch try to make contact inside the residence, and we wouldn't answer until we knew that the animals were properly secured. 

This is what should have happened in the El Monte situation. I still cannot believe what I saw in that video.

Just horrible.

PS: And above all, I would double check the address I was supposed to be at. Nice idea!

LOL


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Ya know I do believe Mrs K has the right idea too! 



(btw I hope this would never happen as human life is most important but in the case of the TX family where the officer was not apparently identified as a PO, had the family shot him (after he used his firearm) fearing for THEIR lives would that fall under a castle law type defense I wonder?)


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Can you imagine what the neighbors will think when they see a sign like that? LMAO


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Mrs.K said:


> :toasting:
> 
> I think I will actually get a custom made sign and post it on the fence, both the doors and garage.
> 
> "IF YOU ARE A POLICE OFFICER SERVING A WARRANT, DOUBLE CHECK YOUR ADDRESS, IF THIS IS NOT AN EMERGENCY, DO NOT ENTER, DOGS ARE ON PREMISES! IF YOU SHOOT THEM, BECAUSE YOU WERE TO LAZY TO VERIFY THE ADDRESS I WILL SHOOT YOU!"


I swear when i read the post earlier regarding do you have a sign I thought about something like this. Ha ha.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Mrs.K said:


> :toasting:
> 
> I think I will actually get a custom made sign and post it on the fence, both the doors and garage.
> 
> "IF YOU ARE A POLICE OFFICER SERVING A WARRANT, DOUBLE CHECK YOUR ADDRESS, IF THIS IS NOT AN EMERGENCY, DO NOT ENTER, DOGS ARE ON PREMISES! IF YOU SHOOT THEM, BECAUSE YOU WERE TO LAZY TO VERIFY THE ADDRESS I WILL SHOOT YOU!"


Love it!


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

llombardo said:


> Calling the police to make a report and the police doing a follow up report are two different things. I would expect that at some point they are going to show up when called to make one. To follow up on one would be last priority and surely put aside if something more important happened. In this situation I would have thought they weren't coming, because again it was a follow up. If I called them myself, the first thing I would do is put them away. I don't believe these people thought they were still coming. I would not consider a follow up report to be of major importance when other people are getting murdered or robbed.


In the article, it said the homeowners knew the police were coming, but didn't show up at the proper time...an hour or so past the agreed on time. 

Even still, if you know you have officers coming to your home, you pay attention; keep an eye/ear out for cars or slamming doors...there was CCTV so they could have glanced at that to see if someone pulled up.

I'm not going to assume why the dogs were outside, but in any event...knowing that LEOs are planning on showing up at any moment...the dogs shouldn't have been outside without supervision or under direct manual control of the owner. 


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I have to add my story about cops and how they determine when they are going to respond to your call and which ones to respond to. About 3 years ago im standing outside my friends house about 1 1/2 blocks from the police station all of a sudden in the middle of a residential area a cop puts her sirens on, makes a u turn and at 65 miles an hour runs through the red light and hits a family on the way to church so see their daughters recital. Two cops run out to the street and help the officer. Leaving the 2 other passengers in their car until help arrives . The office gets air lifted out first (she had a broken arm). a few minutes later the man gets airlifted to a hospital where he dies from his injuries. The wife died while waiting for help at the scene. My point in all this was the officer was responding to a call that a suspect parolee had just been caught. She was traveling at over 60 miles an hour to get to a place where they had already caught a suspect. Thats ridiculous.

My son and his friend DJ'd through college. One night at a party a group of gangsters decide to crash the party and stabbed two of my sons friends . One of the friend got stabbed pretty bad. since my son had a few medic classes he learned to put pressure on the wound and was doing that when the sherrifs dept came. They told him to get away from his friend and he was not allowed to put pressure on the would. My son said all they did was order them around and then just stood there talking and laughing with each other until the ambulance got there. That day my son lost all respect for officers. (My sons dads uncle is a captain III. He always liked cops before then)


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## ImJaxon (Jan 21, 2013)

MsMaria, those are two horrible stories. I am very sorry that you all experienced that.

There are a lot of great cops. It's always the minority percentage of bad ones that people remember.

It's sad that the bad ones disgrace the selfless actions that many good officers contribute to the community.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

ImJaxon said:


> MsMaria, those are two horrible stories. I am very sorry that you all experienced that.
> 
> There are a lot of great cops. It's always the minority percentage of bad ones that people remember.
> 
> It's sad that the bad ones disgrace the selfless actions that many good officers contribute to the community.



Yes you are right and I should have said how some cops determine. It just doesnt help when police Depts all over the country are backing up these "bad" officers. It makes them lose their credibility and allows the "disease" to spread thoughout the depts. but yes for the record there are lot of great officers out there. if your a good person , your a good person no matter what your occupation. There have been plenty of times officers have came up to us and wanted to pet Dexter because hes a GSD.


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

selzer said:


> Losing respect from all cops everywhere because one cop acted poorly in your opinion, or told you something you disagree with is kind of like losing all respect for women because one woman did something haneous. .


 Maybe, but having four skeevy cops encounters in a row makes me suspect it's the norm and not the exception. 

Jelpy


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Jelpy said:


> Maybe, but having four skeevy cops encounters in a row makes me suspect it's the norm and not the exception.
> 
> Jelpy


Or when you call a cop for help, they show up hours later, and he tells you that strangulation is absolutely an acceptable form of punishment (to a minor; not that age should matter), then his buddy backs him up 100%, then yeah. I'm not going to respect cops. 

"Protect and serve" is a crock, now.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Am I the only person on the planet who has only known three crappy cops in the literally dozens of cops I've known over the last 11 years? I've worked closely with 9 different PDs and two SWAT teams and I ran into three cops I'd be willing to go to jail for horse punching.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

ImJaxon said:


> MsMaria, those are two horrible stories. I am very sorry that you all experienced that.
> 
> There are a lot of great cops. It's always the minority percentage of bad ones that people remember.
> 
> It's sad that the bad ones disgrace the selfless actions that many good officers contribute to the community.


This is true, most are good people and do their job well. Most of my experience with them has been positive. We had one incident where the officer went above and beyond for us, saved us a huge amount of trouble.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Shaolin said:


> Am I the only person on the planet who has only known three crappy cops in the literally dozens of cops I've known over the last 11 years? I've worked closely with 9 different PDs and two SWAT teams and I ran into three cops I'd be willing to go to jail for horse punching.


No. I know three awesome cops personally. One of which is a family member!

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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

No, you aren't. I've never personally had a bad experience with a police officer. I'd even like to post a video of a cop that was an absolute picture of professionalism with a very nasty person...but it would be way off topic and could turn political. 

Having said that these threads don't have to do with blaming ALL police for the actions of the bad cops, but you have to consider the chain of command and culture which allows these bad cops to behave and continue behaving as they do. I think that's why people are getting angry, because when police do act like bullies with no accountability it makes people angry and justifiably so.

Saying there are good professional officers out there doesn't prevent or resolve the problems which are based in a culture of expediency and laziness.

It is a profession that requires much higher standards of conduct because they* can* use lethal force. 





Shaolin said:


> Am I the only person on the planet who has only known three crappy cops in the literally dozens of cops I've known over the last 11 years? I've worked closely with 9 different PDs and two SWAT teams and I ran into three cops I'd be willing to go to jail for horse punching.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> No, you aren't. I've never personally had a bad experience with a police officer. I'd even like to post a video of a cop that was an absolute picture of professionalism with a very nasty person...but it would be way off topic and could turn political.
> 
> Having said that these threads don't have to do with blaming ALL police for the actions of the bad cops, but you have to consider the chain of command and culture which allows these bad cops to behave and continue behaving as they do. I think that's why people are getting angry, because when police do act like bullies with no accountability it makes people angry and justifiably so.
> 
> ...


True.

I'm just looking at a few of the posts above where people have had these horrific experiences with officers and have lost all respect for them. I've known some serious butthead cops, but for every one of them, I know ten who would give you the shirt off their back. The good cops outnumber the bad ones, IMHO.

I think the hard part with these types of things is that, the reflex reaction is to put all or the majority of the blame on PD, but the problem is, it's not their fault completely or at all. I can recollect one thread where the cop was serving a warrant and walked into the wrong yard and shot and killed the dog. That is 100% the fault of the PD and that officer needs to be punished...but many of the other situations, the onus is not completely on the PD if at all. 

The accountability part is also a hard thing. I hope no LEO here takes offense to my next statement, but the Union Reps can be as bad as ambulance chasing attorneys. It can be almost impossible to discipline an officer once the UR gets involved. For example, and not to get OT, but as a professional courtesy, most LEOs were willing to do a quick pat down of any person we transported from them with their permission. I had a cop who picked up a suspect involved in a stabbing and we had to transport the suspect. I asked if the suspect had been searched and the cop said no and refused to do the search or follow us to the ER. Long story short, the suspect had the knife on him and threatened myself and the physician in the hospital.

In the end, the Union Rep got him off without even a warning in his jacket by saying that he was under no obligation to search the suspect. Before the hearing, the CoP wanted to suspend him pending investigation, but the UR came back threatening a lawsuit because nothing in their SoGs stated they had to search a suspect prior to turning them over to the ambulance. Bad cops hide behind the URs and their SoGs. As long as they can show where they stayed inside their boundaries, they can't get fired/disciplined.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Exactly, I completely agree this is a multifactorial issue.

Unions, low pay scales, lack of training and lousy supervisors all contribute to the problems.

I'm in a profession where trust between me and my client is very important. We had a person who decided they could start up and beat us by cutting corners. They would gain the trust of people and then violate that trust. Those people often will write our entire industry off because they feel so vunerable. It made us very angry and since it's private sector there wasn't much we could do about it. Eventually the person went out of business but the damage was done and some potential customers were lost forever.

Take that example and amp it up to the power of 10 and add in many levels of vunerability we experience when dealing with the police. We trust them but enough bad apples violating the public trust leaves people feeling very demoralized with no recourse or protection from their misdeeds. The police become a protected class and that only breeds resentment. Not good.

Peer pressure seems to be lacking as well. I was astounded by some comments in a thread about police k-9s bite training, an extremely lack-a-daisical 'oh well let 'em sue us' attitude. No concerns about how poor performing depts. affect public trust and perception. 

Just about everyone has dealt with a bad cop, or knows someone who has dealt with a bad cop and you know, that shouldn't be....

(while these threads were going on I had a friend be bullied by a cop regarding returning an abandoned dog to it's abusive owner, she had the dog for 6 months and per county code after 14 days of feeding and caring for a dog you become the owner. But the cop happens to be friends with the person who abandoned the dog and she doesn't have the money or power to really fight back.)





Shaolin said:


> True.
> 
> I'm just looking at a few of the posts above where people have had these horrific experiences with officers and have lost all respect for them. I've known some serious butthead cops, but for every one of them, I know ten who would give you the shirt off their back. The good cops outnumber the bad ones, IMHO.
> 
> ...


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## GSD2 (Jan 27, 2012)

Watching the video you may notice that the first policeman does pet the pit bull, turns, appears to put his hand on his gun, walks calmly toward the gate, practically jumps out the gate when he gets there, shuts the gate, _leaving his partner inside._ I think this policeman realized shortly after seeing the first dog that he made a mistake and as safely as possible exits the yard. My take on this is he was frightened of the pit bull but left the area quietly and calmly. If this is the case why didn't he tell his partner, hey there are dogs here, lets _both _get out of here. Maybe he did and she didn't want to go? Just my take on the video.


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## lennyb (Jan 1, 2014)

There were different options these LEO's could have taking. Let's not forget that they had fencing and signs and the last time I checked its their property. If they want to let their dogs have full run ( front & back yards ) then who is anyone to say other wise. During my military days I've personally done door to door searches for persons of interest and have ran into hundreds of dogs (only ever put one down) BUT that's when you access the situation at hand and act accordingly. I guess my point is if our fighting brothers and sisters don't feel the need to fire unnecessarily then why are other people so quick to shoot? Maybe they need more training on situational awareness and response or refresher courses. I'm not trying to fire anyone up here but come on, really..


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Old thread a newbie dredged up.. FYI.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Old thread a newbie dredged up.. FYI.


And a spammer at that! They have been banned.


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