# Is 7 too old to breed??



## lytrefry (Oct 20, 2016)

I found a ckc registered breeder in my area.. she told me the mother was 7!! Alarms went off in my head right away, something doesn't seem right. Isn't that too old to breed?? 
And the father is only a year! He passed his prelims.. but she just laughed at me when I showed concern for both of their ages! 
Should I be concerned?


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Are you seriously considering getting a puppy from this litter? Personally, I'd pass and that has nothing to do with the ages.


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## lytrefry (Oct 20, 2016)

I'm not. I wasn't even interested in a puppy. I seen the father in pictures was black sable and had actually asked where they got the father.. then got to asking about the litter and so forth. Needless to say they wouldn't tell me where they got the father. And then with this information about the litter I just needed to be sure that I wasn't the only one who thinks she is just plain old crazy!!!


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## lytrefry (Oct 20, 2016)

Why would you pass?? Love to hear your input!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

lytrefry said:


> Why would you pass?? Love to hear your input!


The stud could have been stolen, who knows. A breeder who hides information has something to hide.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Maybe not but the whole setup sounds shady and screams BYB.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

7 is not too old to breed, as long as the bitch is in good shape and recovers well from litters.

The age of the sire is another matter.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Learning to do a reverse image search is a good idea. It helps keep you from getting duped when you're online. Didn't we just have a poster a few weeks ago with a puppy from a shady breeder and when someone googled "gsd on couch" the pic of the alleged dam was the first to come up?

Anyway, I know you said you're not buying but it's a good trick to know.


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## lytrefry (Oct 20, 2016)

Yes I remember that thread! It did seem shady.. just everything she said on the phone seemed weird to me. 
I really wanted to contact the breeder she got her male from. 
But! She won't give me any details! So that's fine. 
When is a good age to stop breeding a female?? 
When I asked her if 7 was a bit too old to breed, she said the female hadn't had many puppies and she didn't get pregnant with the last breeding and the two before that they only had 2-3 pups.. in my oponion that usually means she should probably stop breeding that dog!

I'm not looking for a puppy for right now.. going to take my time and browse. Really love the wl black sables!!


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

lytrefry said:


> Why would you pass?? Love to hear your input!


From your initial post because of CKC and that she would laugh at a question you asked. After that because of all the rest of what was posted.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

12 months old is not too young to breed for a male, or well, it won't hurt him or the puppies any. People here want to wait until 2 so they can get OFAs but others will breed off of pre-lims. Not the end of the world. A year old dog may not have his adult temperament completely set and tested, and that would be a better reason not to breed a youngster like that, but a knowledgeable breeder probably could make a reasonable decision on that. And, some breeders do want to see what a dog produces before putting any more work in on the dog, a trial breeding to see if he can produce might be done. I wouldn't knock a breeder off my list for this reason.

As for a seven year old bitch, no problem at all, so long as she is healthy and this isn't her first litter, and there have not been many years between this and her last litter. Jenna had her last litter at almost 9 years. She will be 12 in August and is doing great. She loves puppies. When I get my next male puppy, I expect she will raise it for me. 

There may be good reasons to walk away from the breeder you are citing. I just don't think these are.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Deb said:


> From your initial post because of CKC and that she would laugh at a question you asked. After that because of all the rest of what was posted.


CKC? The poster is in Canada. Could be Canadian Kennel Club, and that is ok. 

As for the laughing, yes, that's a turn-off.


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## lytrefry (Oct 20, 2016)

Deb said:


> From your initial post because of CKC and that she would laugh at a question you asked. After that because of all the rest of what was posted.


What is wrong with the CKC?


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

lytrefry said:


> What is wrong with the CKC??



LOL, nothing if it's the Canadian Kennel Club. I missed you were from Canada. There is the Continental Kennel Club in the US that uses the same initials of CKC. Let's just say they aren't AKC.


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## lytrefry (Oct 20, 2016)

Well that's good to know. I'd have to know more about her female to say more!
She wasn't really giving on information so just that alone didn't give me a very good feeling. 
I guess a feeling isn't enough to say no to a breeder, but I'd definitely want one with a better attitude!


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## lytrefry (Oct 20, 2016)

Deb said:


> LOL, nothing if it's the Canadian Kennel Club. I missed you were from Canada. There is the Continental Kennel Club in the US that uses the same initials of CKC. Let's just say they aren't AKC.


Okay! That makes more sense to me now!! That's okay!


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## Caroline5 (Mar 18, 2016)

lytrefry said:


> I found a ckc registered breeder in my area.. she told me the mother was 7!! Alarms went off in my head right away, something doesn't seem right. Isn't that too old to breed??
> And the father is only a year! He passed his prelims.. but she just laughed at me when I showed concern for both of their ages!
> Should I be concerned?


Where in Canada are you and the breeder?


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## lytrefry (Oct 20, 2016)

I'm in Nova Scotia. And the breeder is called mowatt german shepherds


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## BahCan (May 29, 2010)

​SchH2 Sassy v Bullinger kk1 x Tsar v Wendelin

I think this is the breeding the OP is talking about


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Xeph said:


> 7 is not too old to breed, as long as the bitch is in good shape and recovers well from litters.
> 
> The age of the sire is another matter.


I would like to know why the sire's age matters, because I was considering to get a pup from a famous sire who's about 10 years old.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The sire in this case is 1 year old, not 10. Too young for official health clearances, too young for any real temperament/nerve/working ability testing. Might not be too young physically, but is too young ethically.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I've heard from quite a few people in various working-dog sports that a sire loses his potency of passing on traits after around 7-8 years of age. I am not sure if this is purely anecdotal or based in biology and genetics. 

I personally see some merit in this, just basic genetics, and would not choose to bred to an older stud (older than 8) or get a pup from one. 

Bitches can be safely bred to even age 10, if they are healthy and have had litters before. In some ways, it is healthier for an intact bitch under around age 9 to have a litter than to not.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Muskeg said:


> I've heard from quite a few people in various working-dog sports that a sire loses his potency of passing on traits after around 7-8 years of age. I am not sure if this is purely anecdotal or based in biology and genetics.
> 
> I personally see some merit in this, just basic genetics, and would not choose to bred to an older stud (older than 8) or get a pup from one.
> 
> Bitches can be safely bred to even age 10, if they are healthy and have had litters before. In some ways, it is healthier for an intact bitch under around age 9 to have a litter than to not.


I have a male sired by a 10+ year old dog(he'll be 13 on Valentines day). He passed on his traits just fine, and has with other litters as well. Every time the owner has a semen analysis, the vet is giddy with the potency of the sperm. 
FWIW, he didn't sire many litters, and was at the age of 9 or 10 was when he was first bred. His most recent litter is from a fresh chilled(shipped to another state) and the pups are doing super. 
I think breeding a bitch older than 8 is pushing it. I would question the reasoning for it by the breeder. 
Here is a photo taken today of my 2 yr old male and his almost 13 yr old sire.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

BahCan said:


> ​SchH2 Sassy v Bullinger kk1 x Tsar v Wendelin
> 
> I think this is the breeding the OP is talking about


That's a weird breeding. Sassy is still listed under Bullinger as one of their females, and I highly, highly doubt they would cross to a working line male when they specialize hugely in WGSL. It's also not listed as one of their breedings, so I'm quite curious how this is going about.


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## BahCan (May 29, 2010)

Femfa said:


> That's a weird breeding. Sassy is still listed under Bullinger as one of their females, and I highly, highly doubt they would cross to a working line male when they specialize hugely in WGSL. It's also not listed as one of their breedings, so I'm quite curious how this is going about.


It's listed on the website of the breeder that the OP mentioned.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

BahCan said:


> It's listed on the website of the breeder that the OP mentioned.


Wow. I see it on that breeder's website now. I would run for the hills.


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## lytrefry (Oct 20, 2016)

Femfa said:


> BahCan said:
> 
> 
> > It's listed on the website of the breeder that the OP mentioned.
> ...


How come??


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