# Dante's eyes keep swelling up!



## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

So last Thursday, we noticed a small bump in Dante's lip towards the back molars. It was not on the gum line as though it could be a tooth. It was in the actual lip. Inside and outside of the lip appeared 100% normal, skin nice and healthy. The little bump would move a bit. It was located on his left side. Decided to give it through the weekend to see if it went away, it didn't appear to cause him any discomfort whatsoever.

Monday AM came and his whole mouth was swollen up! He ate and drank fine, acted normal. Called the vet immediately and had an early afternoon appt. Within about an hr of the appt his left eye began swelling rapidly. The vet determined that he must've gotten bit by some kind of spider or bug which caused the bump and subsequent swelling. Yes, we were clear the bump appeared days before the swelling. He said sometimes the reaction is delayed. He gave him a steroid shot for immedate relief and said to give 50 mgs of benadryl 3x's a day for a few days, then 2x's a day. The swelling went down within hrs and was still gone the next day, so I stopped the benadryl (probably shouldn't have in retrospect).

Today, all was well, he just went out for a potty break and came back in, ground is covered in snow and nothing to get into, and the right eye was completely swollen identically to what the left one was.

Any ideas? Could a bug bite really be causing all this or perhaps the vet needs to dig a little further? The bump that was in the lip is completely gone.

It really itches him. I flushed it out with contact solution and gave him 50 mgs of benadryl.

thanks.




























As you can see, eye fine only hrs before the above were taken...


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Same thing happened to Uschi!! I bought her a new collar with reflective material on it and she swelled up like that. It never occurred to me that's what it was until we were at the vet and the tech mentioned that Uschi had a new collar on- I took it off and the swelling went down. So if there's anything new on or near her, I'd wash it twice


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Thanks for the idea, but nothing new on him and nothing new in the enviornment that we can think of. Even thought about laundry detergent, etc, but nothing new there either.

On a somewhat unrelated note, took him from training class tonight per the trainers recommendation to the e-vet as he accumulated a puddle under him while in a sit/stay across the room from me. Either was leeking urine or...??? They took his temp at the training facility and it was a bit high but not terrible (102.6)It didn't look or smell like pee. Have had some on and off issues that could be traced to a possible UTI, so I took him to the e-vet for a urinalysis and to peek at that eye (which is almost back to normal now thanks to the benadryl). Urine came back "cleanest she'd ever seen." Temp at vet was 101.9 so on the high end of normal.

Vet was at a loss for the issues, said the swollen eye likely still lingering from whatever bit him and it's still trying to flush out of his system.

Today while walking around in the dining room, he began leaking urine and created quite the trail of pee. He had just been out to potty (and yes he pottied). Not a house training issue as he didn't even seem to be aware he was pee'ing.

Also, at least once a week since puppyhood he's pee'd in his crate. Crate is appropriate size, and we pull up water for him at approx 6pm each night. He goes out after dinner around that time, then out again usually 8pm and 10pm or so. Then still has to go out at around 3am or he pee's in the crate, and even after going out at 3 he will sometimes have soaked the crate with urine by early AM when we get up. Not a little pee. SOAKED. Sometimes two or three nights in a row, other times not for a week or more.

He seems to drink a lot. she said to monitor water intake, and see how much he's drinking on a daily basis. Normal should be 4 - 6 cups for his size.

Any ideas??

Vet and I are at a loss. She said there are some physical problems he could've been born with that might cause that, but all are quite rare.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

When Karlo had a ranula, I remember reading this:
Salivary Mucocele in Dogs
_Less common forms of salivary mucoceles are pharyngeal mucoceles that can cause difficulty swallowing or breathing, and zygomatic mucoceles that occur near the zygomatic cheek bone beneath the eye, which can cause swelling under the eye or problems with the eye itself. 

Mucoceles can become infected if not treated, but the prognosis is excellent with treatment_.

re: the excessive peeing, water intake?

have you had his blood sugar tested for diabetes, kidneys are functioning ok?


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

She suggested talked to the regular vet about the further tests. She did mention diabetes, but said it was different than with people and not related to blood sugar? I wasn't clear on what it was related to, as she touched on a number of different things that it could possibly be. She said a kidney problem was possible, but doubtful, but would need testing to rule it out.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

That definitely could have been a spider bite. I was bitten by a spider once and both of my eyes and half of my face swelled up. One of my eyes swelled completely shut. It was very itchy too. 

As for the leaking thing...that's quite a mystery. Even if he had kidney problems it wouldn't cause leaking, just peeing often. I would definitely do blood work, just to be safe (and since he is drinking a lot of water), but maybe his bladder muscles just aren't very strong yet? I know that sounds weird but I did go through this with Kai. When he came to me at 7 months he had a really weak bladder. He would soak his crate and a couple of times stood up and let loose in the back of my truck. :shocked: I had him tested for a UTI about 5 times and all kinds of other testing done but finally, when he was about 10 months old he was able to really hold it for long periods.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

BowWowMeow said:


> I had him tested for a UTI about 5 times


I know! I could have SWORN he had a UTI. I know they aren't nearly as common in males as females, but he seemed to fit so many of the symptoms other than the fact that it's somewhat on and off again. He's just so well housetrained and potties like a champ outside. I will let him out for a quick pee break and watch from the door and he'll run out, pee, and run back in. Then runs over and gulps down water and has to pee 10 minutes later.

She said the urine would be concentrated if there was a particular problem (which I'm failing to remember right now) but that it's possible his body knows he needs to drink extra water to make up for the issue, so the vet would have to have me run a water restriction test on him for 24 hrs and then test the urine again and see if the problem shows up.

She also mentioned that it could be a puppy psychological issue of having to drink a lot. But she didn't believe that should cause the leaking, she said it shouldn't make him leak, he would just have to pee so he'd squat. The leaking and soaking in the crate overnight even when let out (he's more than old enough that he shouldn't have to be let out in the middle of the night) is what is causing red flags to go up wondering what's going on. I attributed it to him being a pup initially but the leaking on the floor today and still soaking the crate once or twice a week is making me think there's more going on.

I hope it's just a weak bladdar, but I'll talk to his reg. vet tomorrow and see. All suggestions are welcome...I will research more tomorrow. I'm beat today.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Kai's issues were intermittent too. He never had a problem overnight but sometimes I'd come home after 4 hours and he'd be soaked in his crate. If you can get a pee first thing in the morning (when he hasn't peed at night) then that is the most concentrated (and best) sample. 

Now I'm having a vague memory of someone who had this leaking problem in a young male dog but I can't remember what it was...


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Aha, it was Wolfie, post-neuter: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/holistic-homeopathic-practices/125136-pee-pee-leaks-sleep.html


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## Cardinal Von Crossbones (Mar 29, 2010)

We have a lab who did something very similar to the leaky thing when he was a puppy. He'd survived parvo, and we thought for a while that maybe the illness had damaged him somehow (still wonder that sometimes lol). He would mostly do it while running down the stairs though and after awhile we even ended up putting down that sticky plastic that painters use so clean up wouldnt be so much of a trial. 

Eventually (a few months or so) he got over it, or whatever was wrong healed up or passed, and he hasn't had the problem since. *shrug*


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Geez, this is all so strange... Can we guess these are two separate problems? 

That is some serious swelling, and so odd that it came on all at once, and then came back later. Hopefully it was just a spider bite and the swelling won't return again. If the anti-histamine did bring it down, then it is certainly an allergic reaction rather than an infection.

No help for you with the loss of bladder control. I don't know if there is a condition in dogs that leads to weak sphincter muscles on the bladder??? Is there any kind of unusual odor to the pee? 

Good luck, I hope you and your vet can solve these mysteries.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I just typed out a long reply and got an error msg and lost it. Darn!  I will try to make it short this time.

Yes we do believe they are unrelated, but it's still in the back of my mind trying to somehow link the two symptoms. The steroid shot given Monday was a short term shot and the vet said it would've been out of his system within hours so it should not have caused any urine leaking. In addition, he's been having problems off and on with the urine since we got him at 10 wks old.

No unusual odor to the urine, and he hasn't been neutered yet. Actually Monday at the vet he appeared to only have one testicle down, even though he hasn't been a crypt-orchid up till then. And last night at the e-vet I mentioned that and she double checked and said that yes, both were down. I saw it for myself Monday when his reg. vet showed me, so I have no idea how one goes up and down. I don't know if that could possibly have anything to do with it. The e-vet didn't think so.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Don't have anything to add, but just to say I hope you get to the bottom of everything soon, I know it must be stressful!


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

Good_Karma said:


> Geez, this is all so strange... Can we guess these are two separate problems?
> 
> That is some serious swelling, and so odd that it came on all at once, and then came back later. Hopefully it was just a spider bite and the swelling won't return again. If the anti-histamine did bring it down, then it is certainly an allergic reaction rather than an infection.
> 
> ...


Will a spider bite come and then go and come back again? Seems wierd? Can it be a blocked tear duct? Do dogs even have tear ducts?


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Was the urine leaking after the steroids? Because those can cause polyuria and dogs, specially pups, may have a hardest time holding it. (I have not read the entire thread).


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

He was having problems before the steriods, but wasn't leaking while walking. He just did it again walking around anxiously while I was unlocking the back door to let him out. We had to run an errand (groceries), let him out before - he pottied - NO WATER given - put him in his crate and came home. He'd been crated approx 2 hrs. Let him out of his crate and he of course beat me to the back door, and while I was walking there and unlocking it realized he was walking around pee'ing. So frustrating. I have no idea what's going on.

The vet said it was a short acting steroid and would be out of his system in a few hrs.

What is polyuria?


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Polyuria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically drinking and peeing a lot, for a huge long list of reasons, one of which is corticosteroid use (like prednisone).


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Polyuria is the excessive production of urine


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

Rerun said:


> He was having problems before the steriods, but wasn't leaking while walking. He just did it again walking around anxiously while I was unlocking the back door to let him out. We had to run an errand (groceries), let him out before - he pottied - NO WATER given - put him in his crate and came home. He'd been crated approx 2 hrs. Let him out of his crate and he of course beat me to the back door, and while I was walking there and unlocking it realized he was walking around pee'ing. So frustrating. I have no idea what's going on.
> 
> The vet said it was a short acting steroid and would be out of his system in a few hrs.
> 
> What is polyuria?


 
This is going to sound wierd but I had a boxer that had a divot in his urethra (spelling). When I gave him peanut butter say in a kong or wherever, it would raise the Ph in his body and the pee that was in this "divot" would burn and he dribbled a bit.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

So I figured I'd give a quick update on this. Dante had every symptom of a UTI in the book. He was a textbook case for a UTI. The urinalysis was taken very late at night at the doggie ER, and I read that it should (ideally) be taken with the first morning urine output. I would think that if it was that bad, it should show up in the urinalysis even late at night.

But regardless, out of desperation, we began giving him 250mg of Amoxicillin 2x's a day, and not a single drop of urine has leaked out since, nor is he drinking and pee'ing excessively. He hasn't pee'd in the house or crate since I began the amox. Also no swelling, though I think that was unrelated.

Will do a 10 day treatment and see what plays out.


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Wikipedia listed excessive vit c as a possible reason for leakage if I read it correctly. Have you given Dante lots of vit c to help combat pano?


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

My lab leaked till right after a year whenever he was excited,lol Someone came to the dog....he'd leak the whole way there, we came home and same responce- it was annoying but temporary. We did the whole blood and kidney work-up with no issues found but an $800 bill and cool ultrasound pic of his perfect kidney's

As far as the eye Zoe got bit by something when we were at the bay and it swelled her whole eye shut for days- benedryl helped a lot


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

1sttimeforgsd said:


> Wikipedia listed excessive vit c as a possible reason for leakage if I read it correctly. Have you given Dante lots of vit c to help combat pano?


He doesn't/hasn't had pano (maybe you are thinking of another poster?) and hasn't received vitamin C. 

Zoey's mom - he isn't excitement or submisively urinating. We would be (for example) sitting on the couch in the living room watching TV, and he'd be in the dining room in full view, not paying attention to us at all, and walk along pee'ing or be looking around and pee without squatting/parking out (he always parks out, outside).


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Zoeys mom said:


> As far as the eye Zoe got bit by something when we were at the bay and it swelled her whole eye shut for days- benedryl helped a lot


Yes, it's amazing how well benadryl worked both times!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

No chance of Lyme disease?


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Shouldn't be. Never had/seen a tick on him. Would there be other symptoms? Would the amox have any impact on that (I'm assuming not) because he hasn't had any leaking at all since he started the ab-otics.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

This is good news!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Diabetes insipidus, it is caused by the malfuncion of the pituitary gland. I had a foster with this, he was drinking and peein a lot.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I was just thinking Lyme becaue amoxi is effective for that and it can impact the kidneys. Sounds like it was just a regular UTI, which is good news!


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

LisaT said:


> I was just thinking Lyme becaue amoxi is effective for that and it can impact the kidneys. Sounds like it was just a regular UTI, which is good news!


If it was lyme, should I expect symptoms to return after amox is stopped? We are going to do a 10 day treatment. Read 7 days min, up to 12 days, with 10 preferable.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

After only 10 days, I would expect symptoms to return. That could be true with a stubborn UTI??

If a blood panel hasn't been run in awhile (I like to run them once a year in healthy non-senior dogs), then this might me a reason to run one, a bit after treatment is done, if *anything* is "off".


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

The urine leakage is interesting... As you have seen from the link Ruth posted, Wolfie had that persistent problem (still does, but to a less extent). Does Dante leak in his sleep? The thing that had an immediate positive effect for Wolfie was a chiropractic adjustment. But it looks like we have to keep at it once a month or so. Otherwise, the adjustment wears off and he starts leaking again. The chiro lives quite far off, so we probably won't be visiting until May. Now Wolfie is getting a combination of TCM remedies. I believe the Bu Zhong and Gin Suo (sp?) combo target the bladder areas. That was helpful too. 

I'm sorry if you have already repeated this but I didn't notice it as I was scanning the thread... but the kidney values are fine? All normal?


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

LisaT said:


> After only 10 days, I would expect symptoms to return. That could be true with a stubborn UTI??
> 
> If a blood panel hasn't been run in awhile (I like to run them once a year in healthy non-senior dogs), then this might me a reason to run one, a bit after treatment is done, if *anything* is "off".


Blood panel has never been run, as he's only 5 mo old and never had a need for it. We can certainly talk to the vet about running it, if this starts back up again after treatment.

10 day treatment - we have plently of meds - should we give them longer, if so how long would you recommend?


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