# Finally! A new training video!



## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Now that my holiday craziness is over, I finally got around to editing the most recent video taken of Aiden's protection work at club! 

Aiden vom HausDaka - Bitework 12/6/2011 - YouTube

He's gettin' there..


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Very nice~ I enjoyed watching this. Aiden has a lot of good drives and aptitude for the work. Would have loved to hear the quality of his barking. 

I'm no expert but was wondering why your helper was using a soft puppy sleeve for him, seemed to be encouraging shallow bites. But then when he switched to a hard sleeve, Aiden was biting full, so no worries there. 

Another thing that I noticed is that the helper rewarded a few times when Aiden was shaking and trashing the sleeve. There were instances where he was pulling back nicely and strongly where he should have been rewarded instead. I know that some people don't worry about the head shaking, but if that is a concern to you, be aware of what Aiden is being rewarded for. 

Overall, nice work, good fight!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I was thinking the same thing about the soft sleeve and was thinking: What in the world is he doing?

Did he explain to you what the purpose of the soft sleeve was?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Thank you! It's been a work in progress with Aiden. I rescued him at 5 months with no intentions of Schutzhund (I didn't even know about it myself) yet here we are. 

To be honest, I'm not sure why my helper was using a soft sleeve in the beginning of the video. Aiden has been working on a hard sleeve for a few months now. I had some issues with shallow bites on the soft sleeve in the past, and we have been working his grips on the hard sleeve for a while now. They weren't that great initially.. 

As of right now, I don't think that Aiden is a very consistent head thrasher, but (being new to the sport) I hadn't realized that it could possibly be an issue. What should I do to prevent that in the future?

I can use any hints/tips/suggestions to improve. Protection seems to be Aiden's weakest suit at the moment, so any advice helps!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Mention to your helper that you have noticed how Aiden gets rewarded by winning the sleeve when he shakes, instead of when he is pulling back. 

I'm not a helper, so maybe he is working on something specific and rewarding Aiden for something specific that I do not see, so ask him why he is rewarding Aiden just then. There might be a good reason for it, or he may just not be aware that he is doing it. The trashing/shaking is very hard on the person's shoulders. Your helper may be having shoulder problems wanting to slip the sleeve because he has a hard time holding on to it when Aiden is shaking - I really don't know. This is not something that you can fix, this is something that the helper has to fix (if it needs fixing). Best bet is to talk to him about it. You could just mention that you are concerned about Aiden developing bad habits and would like to see him rewarded only for calm pulling back. 

I'm thinking that if your helper is going back to the puppy sleeve and letting the sleeve go when it is being shaken . . . he might have had a sore arm/shoulder and was protecting himself and trying to make things easier for his sore arm. I don't want to critizice him, overall I think he does nice work. This kind of feedback is good for you though to develop an eye to see what is going on and learning from it. 

And again, I'm not very experienced myself, so if a more experienced person sees things differently than what I see, I'm open to learning from them also. 

Did you ask your helper for permission to post this video? Our helper has asked us to check with him before we post pictures and videos of him working dogs to avoid that one ackward picture, or that one bad protection session that didn't go as planned but is not indicative of his general work. But then all it takes is one bad picture or one confusing video for complete strangers to make up their minds about a person's training ability.


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## Renofan2 (Aug 27, 2010)

Keep up the nice work! Agree, would have liked to have heard the barking. I am a bit envious of your indoor facility. We trained in 30 degree weather with high winds last night. I am still not feeling warm, lol.

Cheryl


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Yup, my helper gave me permission to use my videos for whatever purposed I please. He's a great guy. He's taken Aiden from being shy and submissive to a much more confident dog. I'm going to find another one of my videos that has Aiden barking in it.

And yeah, _love_ having the facility. That way when it's pouring or snowing (which is probably 70% of the time here in NY) we don't have to freeze! It's great. I personally doubt I could handle the weather around here. I hate the cold.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Wuzzes... where I'm from you train and trial in snow, rain and the cold. I've never seen a club with any kind or form of indoor facility... but then again, we don't get those masses of snow you've got over here. 

This current winter is more like the German Winter I am used to, so no need of indoor facilities, you just suck it up. Because Dog Handlers and especially Schutzhund people are not whiny sissies, they are rough and tough and endure the cold. If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Biting on a soft sleeve like that can give a dog a lot of confidence because they can feel the helper's arm better. 

As far as the questions about pulling back...... pulling back or away from the helper is an avoidance behavior. I want to see a dog that fights by either torquing the sleeve (not thrashing) with his head/body or that punches or slams the sleeve into the helper. This is a dog fighting with the helper and not biting and then trying to avoid the fight.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

We train in a filthy dirty cold horse barn in the winter. The footing in the barn is safer for both the dogs and the helpers than dealing with frozen ground, ice and snow. The barn also protects us from the miserable winter winds.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

lhczth said:


> Biting on a soft sleeve like that can give a dog a lot of confidence because they can feel the helper's arm better.
> 
> As far as the questions about pulling back...... pulling back or away from the helper is an avoidance behavior. I want to see a dog that fights by either torquing the sleeve (not thrashing) with his head/body or that punches or slams the sleeve into the helper. This is a dog fighting with the helper and not biting and then trying to avoid the fight.


That's what I believe my helper has been trying to accomplish with Aiden. He has always had good fight in him, but for a while he would back up in his bark and hold to be closer to me and continue to bark. The soft sleeve has always brought out the more confident side in Aiden. We have been working on the hard sleeve for a few months now and that kind of transition seems to have done the trick. 

My helped and I have also encouraged Aiden to always have to "fight" to win the sleeve. I think this is because he was so in-confident in the beginning, and by "fighting", he gained some confidence each time he won. What would you do about the trashing in my situation? 

Thanks again!


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> Wuzzes... where I'm from you train and trial in snow, rain and the cold. I've never seen a club with any kind or form of indoor facility... but then again, we don't get those masses of snow you've got over here.
> 
> This current winter is more like the German Winter I am used to, so no need of indoor facilities, you just suck it up. Because Dog Handlers and especially Schutzhund people are not whiny sissies, they are rough and tough and endure the cold. If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger!


Well being in Albany, its tough to even find an open enough field area to trial/train at to begin with. We got really lucky by finding someone who has offered us the use of that facility. 

If it came down to it, I would obviously train in the weather if I had to, but luckily I don't!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

lhczth said:


> Biting on a soft sleeve like that can give a dog a lot of confidence because they can feel the helper's arm better.
> 
> As far as the questions about pulling back...... pulling back or away from the helper is an avoidance behavior. I want to see a dog that fights by either torquing the sleeve (not thrashing) with his head/body or that punches or slams the sleeve into the helper. This is a dog fighting with the helper and not biting and then trying to avoid the fight.


What do you mean by torquing? I couldn't find any translation that would make sense in the context and what do you mean by thrashing?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

This is the completely unedited version, so that his barking can be heard.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Sorry, torquing is not a word that will translate since even my spell-check doesn't like the word. A dog who torques throws their neck and body into the fight in an attempt to remove the helpers arm and to control them. The grip will remain calm. 

A dog that is thrashing will usually be just fighting with its head. The grip doesn't always remain calm and the dog will appear more hectic. 

Gator, I am not a helper, but I would have your helper turn away a bit after he gives the bite to remove some of the pressure his very frontal position puts on the dog. 

BTW, I should have stated that pulling back or away from the helper is OFTEN an avoidance behavior. Obviously there are no absolutes.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

LOl, Aiden loves that sleeve. 

Thanks for that, with the sound on, I can totally see what your helper is doing. Nice barking from Aiden (turns into high-pitched prey bark her in there, but that's okay, he is a young dog still in training), but what the sound really helped me with is seeing what your helper is working on - I can totally see how he is acting like Aiden is overpowering him and using the puppy sleeve to build confidence in him (not just saying that to suck up to Lisa, LOL). 

As I said before, I really like what your helper is doing, I like it even more seeing the unedited version of the training video. I started Schutzhund with a dog that lacked confidence, and good, knowledgeable, experienced helper work did mega wonders for her.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I've always called Aid my "weiner-dog" because he is so wimpy, lol. He is a drama queen about everything! Including bitework, as you can see. He sounds like he's ripping the guy to pieces every time. 

We are only doing Schutzhund for the mental/physical stimulation that he gets out of it, and I am absolutely not pushing as hard as I could to get a SchH1 out of him, but I'd really like to some day. He's extremely handler sensitive, so its been quite a battle.  I think maybe as he grows older that things will change though. There's still some hope!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

A good example of thrashing: Go to http://www.grammozis.de/Videos.htm Scroll down the page to Fero Zeutener Himmelreich.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

lhczth said:


> A good example of thrashing: Go to http://www.grammozis.de/Videos.htm Scroll down the page to Fero Zeutener Himmelreich.


Holy cow... I can't believe that they put that one up.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Fero only competed once at the BSP and he received a 288 "V" with 92 in protection. Things were a bit different back then.  That is probably the only video there is of him.


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## Renofan2 (Aug 27, 2010)

We train outdoors all year long, although with the snow we have been getting in the Northeast these past 2 winters, an indoor option would sure be nice once in a while. 

Cheryl


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Renofan2 said:


> We train outdoors all year long, although with the snow we have been getting in the Northeast these past 2 winters, an indoor option would sure be nice once in a while.


I've got some serious respect for that. This winter hasn't been too harsh this year, other than wind. No serious snow as of yet.


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