# HELP! Very fearful / high anxiety.. HELP!



## StellaS (Mar 16, 2017)

My almost 2 yr old intact female has turned very reactive towards humans and all animals. I've had her since she was 6 weeks old and she's always been very fearful of the world. On advice from a trainer, I took her to an enclosed dog park that has mostly puppies around her age and she was terrified for weeks before she finally found a friend. Things were looking good for a while as she continued to expand her social circle. At about 6 months she started to get sick and refused to eat. Long story short, I took her to puppy training classes at about 9 months and she did well but went into 1st heat. After that.. everything started to spiral out of control. She's on a lot of meds and vet care but her fear / anxiety has risen to such a high level that she has almost bitten people and dogs. The vet and trainers have recomended anti-anxiety meds with more training. The meds help a bit but no one wants to help me with training. I can't find a certified Behaviourist and keep getting mixed techniques from everyone. Some say to use the prong collar and 'make her' understand that I'm the boss, some say to use the e-collar for the same result , some say give treats when she sees anything she's scared of, etc.. Problem is that she's so sick and we're not sure what's wrong yet so the vets will not even operate to get her fixed yet. She's not allowed to jump or run (pain in her back), no playing with balls as it can cause back pain, Long walks are hard because I live in the city and EVERYONE has a dog here and she's soooo reactive to everything. but at the same time, I need to get her to burn off her energy. I need help to figure out how to get her calm enough with ppl and dogs to be able to at least go for walks. Currently, we are spending our time either dodging everything or driving over 2 hrs to get out of the city for every walk. Suggestions?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Forcing and flooding her with what she fears will make her worse not better.Take her to a school yard,sports field,industrial area,etc. put her on a long line and let her walk and sniff around at her own pace.There's no reason for her to interact with people or other dogs unless it's her choice.
There's no way to "cure" a genetically fearful dog.Stay within her comfort zone.Being ill and in pain worsens things too.Hopefully with the aid of your vet the medical issues will be resolved.


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## Breaker's mom (May 27, 2008)

You are right about the different ideas in training methods and it is confusing. You need to watch and think about the behavior and then make a decision on how to proceed. I think with fearful dogs your best bet is to start with positive training methods and work your way up to correction based. Hope I am using the appropriate language here. 

Somebody posted a few good reads here and I have them bookmarked.

Care for Reactive Dogs
How To Handle Fear and Fear Aggression in Dogs | The Balanced Canine

and a good thread on this forum about this issue. Where the above links come from actually.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-ugly/87010-can-fear-aggression-overcome.html

I have a pup showing signs of it too. In fact I withdrew from obedience classes and decided to try a reactive dog class first. I have also been working on "watch me" and "touch". I thought both of these were good tools to have on hand if I thought he was going to get reactive. My pup is very food motivated.

I am sure lots of people will chime in over time with lots of ideas. You have to pick the ones that you think you can execute and those you think your pup will respond to.

Best of luck to you.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Curious to know what her lines are. Sorry you are having to cope with this! 

I had a very fearful puppy in the past, and it took months and months of hard work to help her overcome it. I think it was genetic in her case, given what I've heard about her close relatives, which is my reason for asking about her lines.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Breaker's Mom provided some good links to look over.However,let her get healthy and feeling good first.Just spending time with her while she heals and enjoying each other will do her worlds of good.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I think her pain is making her more reactive and protective of herself. I hope you find out what is wrong with her physically.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

dogma13 said:


> Forcing and flooding her with what she fears will make her worse not better.There's no reason for her to interact with people or other dogs unless it's her choice.
> There's no way to "cure" a genetically fearful dog..


I.m not sure you have any proof for this statement. The way i see it is flooding and forcing a dog into something it doesn't want to do or fear, can work with some dogs when it is integrated into a training program. No 1 technique is going to help/cure weak nerves or fear displays but a combination of techniques over time can and will imo have positive results. As well as the dog growing up in an environment where the owner knows what he/she is dealing with is going to help. Experimentation is needed to see what works sometimes but chemical experiments by vets is throwing a spanner in the works imo.

But damage can be done messing around with sensitive dogs so good to read up first, and develop an understanding of dogs temperaments/ wants and needs.

Flooding Therapy for Dogs is an old technique that must only be done properly, i

Desensitizing and Counter-Conditioning: Overcoming Your Dog?s Issues

Obviously in this case there is a lot of misunderstanding of the dogs temperament through it's life/ socializing and health issues to deal with.

Give us a time line of injuries, medications and temperament issues. 

I'm against dogs getting medicated for temperament issues. People are more intelligent than dogs and should be able to figure out a course of action that will improve the situation for the owner and dog. You give meds and then there is improvement or dog biting someone, and you don't know was it the meds or the dogs temperament, or some training/fault of trainer producing the result. Messy.

I intentionally and unintentionally used flooding techniques on my x fearful female(bullmastiff cross) and had good results over time. I would say she was ok with dogs, a bit dominant and aggressive but was environmentally fearful and human aggressive/ fearful. I would say extreme prey drive which was sometimes directed towards humans, children up to large men. As bad as she was she turned into a nice dog that people likes and she likes people i believe, kinda like a mean love bug. Environmental superstition is extinguished. Aggression towards people never in unnecessary situations. High awareness for security of property. Will check boundary and investigate and alert to anything suspicious but won't leave my place or go too crazy if unknown farmers are around my land. She will get to know then over time though. 

People say it can't be cured, i say it can be helped with some dogs and some trainers. Dog needs to grow up too and the temperament will change over time imo. Some people act like the temperament is the unchanging aspect of a dog while i disagree. A trained and socialized dog has totally different temperament to dog chained up in shed all it's life. The dogs mind is always going to be somewhat plastic as in it can be molded, manipulated and trained.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

StellaS said:


> My almost 2 yr old intact female has turned very reactive towards humans and all animals. I've had her since she was 6 weeks old and she's always been very fearful of the world. On advice from a trainer, I took her to an enclosed dog park that has mostly puppies around her age and she was terrified for weeks before she finally found a friend. Things were looking good for a while as she continued to expand her social circle. At about 6 months she started to get sick and refused to eat. Long story short, I took her to puppy training classes at about 9 months and she did well but went into 1st heat. After that.. everything started to spiral out of control. She's on a lot of meds and vet care but her fear / anxiety has risen to such a high level that she has almost bitten people and dogs. The vet and trainers have recomended anti-anxiety meds with more training. The meds help a bit but no one wants to help me with training. I can't find a certified Behaviourist and keep getting mixed techniques from everyone. Some say to use the prong collar and 'make her' understand that I'm the boss, some say to use the e-collar for the same result , some say give treats when she sees anything she's scared of, etc.. Problem is that she's so sick and we're not sure what's wrong yet so the vets will not even operate to get her fixed yet. She's not allowed to jump or run (pain in her back), no playing with balls as it can cause back pain, Long walks are hard because I live in the city and EVERYONE has a dog here and she's soooo reactive to everything. but at the same time, I need to get her to burn off her energy. I need help to figure out how to get her calm enough with ppl and dogs to be able to at least go for walks. Currently, we are spending our time either dodging everything or driving over 2 hrs to get out of the city for every walk. Suggestions?


You will get many different opinions on the meds for anxiety. My suggestion is do the research, learn the effects, side effects, long term effects. My opinion of the drugs is that they are a last resort tool. I have a dog who I finally put on prozac - with vet and trainer working together. The next step for him would have been pts. He has been off the meds for a long while now. Others haven't been as fortunate in having success with meds.

Good for your vet not agreeing to alter your dog at this point. Spaying is major surgery and with her already having medical issues she wouldn't be a good candidate. On top of that altering a dog can INCREASE the level of aggression. Many discussions on the forum about this if you want to do a search.

As for walks, have you thought about office parks in the evenings and on weekends when most people have left them to go home? Some agree with this, others don't; but I found large cemeteries as a good place for a walk with a high anxiety dog. Naturally, this wouldn't be appropriate when a burial is taking place.

Using prongs and/or ecollars may work or backfire. I wouldn't until after I had found and started working with an experienced trainer. Attempting to show a dog like this 'who is boss' is a good way for you to end up needing stitches.

State where you live, someone may be able to recommend a trainer for you.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

@MadLab genetic temperament traits are going to be there forever lurking under the surface no matter what.They can be suppressed but never extinguished.I think we agree on that

This particular dog is unwell and in pain and right now wouldn't you think she could use a break?A vacation where she can just do doggy things while the medical problems get sorted out?Then in the meantime the OP can research the links provided and decide what techniques would be appropriate for this dog's temperament.

Flooding can be very effective with some dogs and some circumstances IMO.A confident owner/handler is imperative!Owners do it all of the time with dogs who hate baths,ear cleaning, or having their nails cut for example.A calm,confident approach and figuring out how to make them more comfortable and not panicked


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

IMO the only thing she should be given treats for when fear is involved is the recovery, otherwise it enforces the fear. I agree with the school yard and long lead, stay at a distance she is comfortable with, gradually get closer but don't push her. 

Flooding often helps with dogs whose living conditions made them fearful, because they know what it means to be hurt and why they are fearful. Genetically fearful dogs don't have a reason for what they fear. Abused dogs fear the abuse, genetically fearful like this one have likely never been hurt so the fear is of the people, dogs, sounds themselves, not being hurt. So flooding a genetically fearful dog to get them used to it is like abusing an abused dog to get them used to it, mentally anyway.

I know you're getting a lot of varying information, sorry we are kind of adding to it :/


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You don't need a certified behaviorist, you need a good one. Or a good trainer. If you give us some idea of your general location we can help you find someone.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I watched a lot of good horses ruined by flooding used by people who thought they understood it.
In this case you have a genetically fearful dog with health issues. So my first piece of advice is stop trying to make her conform to your ideals and learn to love her for who she is. 
Get her health in order and work on trust between you.
I built Shadow some simply agility and other obstacles. Because it channels the energy and provides things I can teach and praise for. My seriously fearful dog has learned to conquer an A frame and a teeter. She runs weave poles when fear needs an outlet.
I make use of industrial areas and commercial parks. They are pretty quiet after 5 and the shop guys are pretty cool about me using them for meet and greets. Lol. I carry a supply of treats and reward all positive progress.
In the neighborhood I use a prong and a muzzle and keep walks short. We focus on ignore everything and move. We do not stop or slow down at all. I try to make the destination a green area or quiet corner where she can chill for a few.
Genetic fear will never go away and will be an ongoing issue to be continuosly worked on.


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## PJR (Mar 16, 2017)

A few points, first mindset; genetics will generally give a variable range around traits. Your dog may never be the social lab that plays with everything it sees but that doesn't mean it can't be comfortable with other dogs/people around and focused on you, in my opinion this is a more preferable option anyway. I typically think of genetics as creating the general range of traits and experience/context/learning/environment as fine tuning those traits into the behaviour we see. If you consider your dogs 'range' to be non-social with others out of immediate family then adjust your mindset and goals to be on comfortable and controlled in those situations rather than to sociable with others. I think you're already pretty much at this mindset going by the first post however I wanted to just outline it in case it wasn't clear.

Second as mentioned by others is obviously health issues are your number 1 priority. Have these addressed and realise that progress will be more difficult while they are affecting her, as far as medication is concerned you should think of this in the same way as psychological medication in humans, it's use is to calm extreme symptoms so that further counselling (training) can take place and be effective at resolving the root cause, alone it wont fix the issue but if it's near impossible to actively train the dog because of the reactions then it's worth using to allow training to occur.

Third is my personal opinion on training methods. I don't think using aversive methods is effective at helping fearful dogs, you may extinguish the behaviour but it wont necessarily remove the stress and discomfort which can cause problems else where, I also agree that you should be focused on building a good relationship with her and with her current health using these methods are probably not beneficial to building that relationship. That being said the 'positive methods,' of taking your dog to places and rewarding, trying to give them a good time in those locations to 'desensitize' etc; I don't think is very effective. The main problem with this is that it somewhat flies in the face of positive reinforcement training. Take marker training for example, the main reason to use a marker is to create a very specific mark to capture very specific behaviour to shape. I think people struggle with positive methods in reactive dogs because they try this but what they are trying to reward, make positive is far too general. What is the dog getting a treat for? How does it establish that it is because of essentially doing nothing in presence of another dog over looking at the car that just drove by etc? While I know it can and does work, it seems like an inefficient process. Flooding seems like it'd just cause learned helplessness in the dog and again, you may extinguish the external behaviour but it's anyones guess what internal processes are happening.

My advice? Positive training has been shown to be effective but the common methods of reward in presence of trigger are ambiguous to the dog and therefore often become ineffective, unfortunately lots of people 'fail' because of this. So your first goal should be work on general obedience training in order to give structure. Unfortunately I'd suggest that for a while you continue to actively avoid interactions until this is down to a point. Get a few basic things down very strong, move it into some minor distractions and continue, work on this until all commands are strong enough to be done outside with average distractions around. Then and only then do you want to start the process of bringing your dog into environments that would cause a reaction, at a safe, comfortable distance and work on those same commands. The idea here goes back to my first point, you essentially want the dog to focus on you, not what is going on around it. You're rewarding behaviour that it actively does and the process naturally breaks down the connections that the dog has to focus on other dogs etc. Instead it focuses on you and this shows the dog that it can be okay in those environments while paying attention and listening to you. 

The goal is to be able to have your dog continue to do those basic obedience commands in the presence of the 'triggers,' focusing on you and not on the other stuff. Remember, focus is to have the dog comfortable and in control in these situations, not become a social butterfly. Once this is all well established it's possible to move onto more social things but this may not be possible for every dog and in my opinion you're better off with a dog that's focused on you and not running up to random people/dogs who could react in unpredictable ways.

Finally, getting a good trainer could help especially if you're struggling with other areas of obedience work, however if you do look for a trainer to work I would keep some of the things said here in mind when asking them how they intend on dealing with the situation as reactive dogs seems to be the most common problem people have and it doesn't seem like the vast array of trainers available is really helping the situation over all.


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