# Guarantees Under 2 years



## pharmcee (Mar 25, 2016)

Hello everyone!

I am well aware that different breeders will provide differ guarantees on their GSD.

I am referring specifically to Hip/Elbow certifications that fall under 2 years, and more along the lines of 12-15 months.

Is this something I should be concerned about (because most breeders are 2 years and up). The pup I am welcoming will be between 3-6 months of age.

Can a puppy develop dysplasia after 2 years of age? Or if it is going to develop it, it will be known way before 2 years of age?

Any clarification would be great! I am narrowing down my breeder selection.

Thanks!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

There are no guarantees in the dog world.  A breeder can give you a warranty and tell you what they will do if something genetic shows up, but they can not guarantee nothing will show up. Mother nature and genetics just don't give us that ability. 

12-15 months is quite young unless you do PennHip. Even for the SV's 'a' stamp, which can be done at 12 months, you probably wouldn't have results back by 15 months. Also, if a female comes into heat it can (in some cases) cause a misdiagnosis of hips looser than they normally are. Yes, a good vet can see hips that won't pass at 12 months, but not all can judge hips that are borderline. Also, positioning can have a lot to do with passing or not. I have seen breeders that only warranty until 12 months for severe (which is easy to see) and moderate (pretty easy to see) and I have purchased pups from such breeders, but I don't recommend that for most people. So, long story short, I, personally, prefer breeders that warranty until 26-30 months for OFA or at least 18 months if 'a' stamp is an option for the buyer.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

There are no guarantees in hips. Many of the same people who are critical of 12-15 month prelim in US, have imported dogs from Europe where hips were X-rayed at same age. Maybe the X-Ray machines over there see further. Anyway, a lot depends on your purpose of dog....pet, breeding, work, or status. 
But there really are no guarantees, imo. Ps...my comments are not response to Lisa's post, just my observations over the years.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

There are no guarantees in hips. Many of the same people who are critical of 12-15 month prelim in US, have imported dogs from Europe where hips were X-rayed at same age. Maybe the X-Ray machines over there see further. Anyway, a lot depends on your purpose of dog....pet, breeding, work, or status. 
But there really are no guarantees, imo.
As example; sport/show people put premium on certified hips as opposed to many working people want functional hips. Pet people often are happy with one or the other. ps this post is not in response to Lisa's post in terms of age, just my observations over the years.


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## pharmcee (Mar 25, 2016)

My concern is whether or not 12/15 months is too early to detect potential dysplasia.

There is no guarantee on a puppy, I agree.

I feel more certain when a breeder can back up their confidence in their dogs with a linger period. That is all.

Thank you to everyone who has commented! Great help.

This is going to be a family companion


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Sorry about the double posts, btw, if you can find a breeder who because of their longer guarantee actually produces better dogs hip wise ....I am very much interested in learning of them. Good luck with your pup!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

One last thing, most of the better breeders in America with excellent hip production have immense knowledge of the bloodlines they are breeding as opposed to their contracts/guarantees, though many of these breeders DO have extended guarantees.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think your time is better spent finding out what other progeny from these lines have been graded at.

That contract is only as good as the person who signs it. So you need to really trust that breeder. Will they back up what their contract says? Or will they push it back on the owner (which does happen often).


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Because of the SV mandated elbow requirements (they do not accept the OFA Elbows) I have been doing OFA prelims and SV ratings at 14-18 months. If the hips are OFA Good on the Prelim, I send them both to SV and do not redo.....

My warranty - which I never have called a guarantee - is 26 months - with notation that females can be extended dependent on heat cycle!!! - will honor either SV or OFA ratings for hips. The female lines I use now have several littermates in each generation rated. 

And I know of many dogs whose initial ratings were bad, x-rays redone and results good....often the vet chosen is not a vet who does these routinely and the position makes such a big difference.

Lee


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I wonder if your pup has poor hips at two, would you give it up? Our breeder has a one year genetic guarantee but she told us that breeders know that usually those guarantees are nearly worthless. They know that families get attached to their pups and don't want to bring them back to be destroyed. 
She told us that if our pup had a problem that she really doesn't want the pup back, that we would give it a good life as best we could. Then, when we were ready, we could get another pup, no additional cost. 

By the way, our first pup has grown into a wonderful boy. OFA hips good, elbows normal. I don't expect any issues with our second pup, either.


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## pharmcee (Mar 25, 2016)

Thank you to all of you who have responded.

In the end, I know an owner will do what is in the best interest for the GSD. 

IMO, the warranty (excuse the lack of a better term), reassures me that the breeder is confident in his lines.

Another reassuring factor is repeat litters, and seeing how successful those generations have been!

In the end, I want a healthy, well-rounded, family companion.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Here's my view of a contract/warranty....

It's worthless to me except a feel good paper collecting dust.

Because...If the dog has a genetic condition such as HD/ED, the breeder typically requests the dog back and offers a replacement. Sometimes, they let the owner keep the dog and offer a replacement.

soooo....
1. Anything can happen with a living creature. Genetic/Congenital. No guarantees.
2. You can't have my dog. He/She is MINE. Not going anywhere.
3. Why would I want another one from the same lines? 

So basically, it's a worthless piece of paper to me. I can see where it would work for someone in higher levels of competition or a breeder. But for a pet owner? You really have to ask yourself what you will gain with that guarantee.


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## pharmcee (Mar 25, 2016)

Jax08 said:


> Here's my view of a contract/warranty....
> 
> It's worthless to me except a feel good paper collecting dust.
> 
> ...


Very solid perspective. Like you said, I cannot see myself giving up my son (I don't even have him yet, but the love is there haha).

Sorry for the late reply!

I lose track as the post disappears from "Active Topics". Still learning to navigate through this forum lol.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

For me, the contract is just as much protecting myself (as a breeder) as it is providing people with what they expect.

If not for my contract, getting Moto back could have been impossible


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I personally don't care about contracts. There is homework that all buyers should do to see how breeders are producing. I know that HD or ED can be a given, but to be honest, those aren't as bad as chronic allergies, sensitive gut or other issues that some dogs suffer from. Not to mention temperament issues(separation anxiety, eating toys, or other(poop) not having that valuable off switch). DO the homework. Support a good breeder that produces generations from their foundation lines. Longevity, health and temperament in what they produce is guarantee enough for me.


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