# Put deposit down on a GSD!!



## devinh (Mar 2, 2013)

After a long search and many calls, I have found a great breeder!! I went to visit the kennel on 50+ acres of land. The owner/breeder was extremely informative and answered every question me and my wife had. He has been around GSDs his whole life and has been a Breeder for 13 years. We even got to pick out the parents of the litter(he is going to be mating them today or tommorow) All his GSDs are AKC certified and are awesome looking examples of the PERFECT GSD I have been searching for. I CAN NOT wait to go and pick out my new puppy.

Just thought I would share, since I am sure I will be visiting this forum alot.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Congrats! What do you mean you got to pick out the parents? He has several pairs breeding that you chose the ones with the pedigree match you like? Hopefully the breeder will be choosing your puppy for you as the breeder would know which one would best match your criteria.


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## devinh (Mar 2, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> Congrats! What do you mean you got to pick out the parents? He has several pairs breeding that you chose the ones with the pedigree match you like? Hopefully the breeder will be choosing your puppy for you as the breeder would know which one would best match your criteria.


 
Yes, As soon as I got out and saw the GSDs my eye was drawn to a female that I asked him about and he said "I am planning on breeding her today" and The Male is beautiful. And he also has 4 litters coming. And I asked that question about what puppy to pick, so I told him about my family and he said he will absolutly help me pick a puppy out. He said he will know by 7 weeks which one will be a good fit for me and my family, I get to choose my puppy at 7 weeks, he says I should bring a sock or a tshirt with my scent on it so the puppy gets my scent and I dont get to pick her up until she is 9-10 weeks old. But his facility is GREAT, all puppies are inside his home and crate trained while they are with him.


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## tucknroll (Jan 4, 2013)

devinh said:


> And he also has 4 litters coming.


Whoa  how many dogs does he have in his breeding program? Typically large numbers of litters = breeding for profit rather than advancing the breed...


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## devinh (Mar 2, 2013)

tucknroll said:


> Whoa  how many dogs does he have in his breeding program? Typically large numbers of litters = breeding for profit rather than advancing the breed...


 
Thats what I thought at first, but after visiting his property he really loves all his GSDs and he takes ALOT of pride in his dogs. Check out his website and please tell me what you think.

germanshepherdsusa.net


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

"All puppies are sold as "pet quality". - red flag 1

No mention of any health certs - red flag 2

No mention of any titles or working ability for breeding stock - red flag 3

And that's just at first glance.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Home - GERMAN SHEPHERDS USA - 770-380-0407 
I don't see anything about pedigrees or working/titles/health testing on the site. Does the breeder have certain goals to achieve with their program? Are you sure you are going into this with eyes wide open? And what questions did you ask the breeder? 

This sticky should be read by all who are looking for a puppy: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


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## devinh (Mar 2, 2013)

You guys might be right, I will do some more research and make a more informed decision. If I decide to not get a puppy from him then luckily the deposit wont break my bank and I will take it as a learning experience.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

devinh said:


> Thats what I thought at first, but after visiting his property he really loves all his GSDs and he takes ALOT of pride in his dogs. Check out his website and please tell me what you think.
> 
> germanshepherdsusa.net


Usually only large, commercial operations are USDA inspected. It would make me weary that they are...usually puppy mills will show you dogs and make you think it's a nice family farm, but meanwhile they are breeding too much, with no regard to health or temperament, and keeping dogs in deplorable conditions. Of course they don't show you that part. 
I'm not saying that is what is going on here, but I would definitely want to look into it further before I purchased a dog from them.

But, they also don't list anything about the parents' hips and elbows being OFA certified, or any titles or anything. I would make sure the parents have had their hips and elbows OFAd, and this should be the bare minimum they do-the parents should also have some sort of titles or real work experience.


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## devinh (Mar 2, 2013)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> Usually only large, commercial operations are USDA inspected. It would make me weary that they are...usually puppy mills will show you dogs and make you think it's a nice family farm, but meanwhile they are breeding too much, with no regard to health or temperament, and keeping dogs in deplorable conditions. Of course they don't show you that part.
> I'm not saying that is what is going on here, but I would definitely want to look into it further before I purchased a dog from them.
> 
> But, they also don't list anything about the parents' hips and elbows being OFA certified, or any titles or anything. I would make sure the parents have had their hips and elbows OFAd, and this should be the bare minimum they do-the parents should also have some sort of titles or real work experience.


I did see the kennels and all the paper work for his dogs. He does have 4 GSDs that sleep in his house. I saw where the dogs sleep and I saw them all play and run around, they all were great with my 2 young sons. But like I said I will do more research.


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## tucknroll (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm scouring the website but can't find any specific health testing or titling the breeder has done on his dogs. IMHO if you're going to breed dogs then it should be in the interest of furthering the breed, and saying "bred for health and temperament" is great and all but can be misleading to someone who's uneducated about the whole process. A reputable breeder should talk about specific health tests and show/working titles his sires & dams have earned.


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## devinh (Mar 2, 2013)

tucknroll said:


> I'm scouring the website but can't find any specific health testing or titling the breeder has done on his dogs. IMHO if you're going to breed dogs then it should be in the interest of furthering the breed, and saying "bred for health and temperament" is great and all but can be misleading to someone who's uneducated about the whole process. A reputable breeder should talk about specific health tests and show/working titles his sires & dams have earned.


 
I think you are right, he says he will give me a written contract stating any health problems at all within the first 2 years he would pay for all costs in any vet visit or take the dog back and I can get a puppy from a current breeding.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

while I personally may not buy a dog from him, his dogs look nice and hey if YOU were impressed with him/his dogs, I'd do a little more research.

The thing I would mostly want to know is, are the male/female ofa'd certified hips and elbows? If not, why not? 

Face it, there are many many people breeding for just pets, (and I don't mean 'just' in a negative way)..If you are looking for a companion dog, you like the temperament of the breeding pair, if they are healthy, have passed their health testing, well taken care of, then that should be the most important.

He does state he has a 'limited' health guarantee, don't know what that entails. I agree there is little real information on his site other than pics . 

AKC reg'd is a dime a dozen, health and temperament are most important. 

Now if he's breeding dogs that haven't been ofa'd, even tho it is not a guarantee you'd get a hd free puppy, I'd walk away. By doing so shows me he cares enough about his breeding dogs that he is willing to spend the money and get the dogs certified hips/elbows..

Only you can make the choice of what's right for yourself/family..just throwing out something to think about


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

there is nothing about his breeding stock - no pedigrees, no health clearance, no NAMES even....just hundreds of cute photos....there is nothing on his website to indicate any attempt to breed to any standard, any attempt to match breeding pairs based on pedigree, ability, compensatory and complimentary characters....and in the testimonials, one of the first ones I read stated he sold 2 female pups to the same customer YIKES!!! So he is selling as a business regardless of what is considered good practices for the breed...

Salemanship (as in used cars!), cute photos = making a living as a commercial breeder...

Lee


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## devinh (Mar 2, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> while I personally may not buy a dog from him, his dogs look nice and hey if YOU were impressed with him/his dogs, I'd do a little more research.
> 
> The thing I would mostly want to know is, are the male/female ofa'd certified hips and elbows? If not, why not?
> 
> ...


 
You make GREAT points, and I appreciate your advise. Yes all his dogs are OFA tested, all of them have recieved "good" on elbows and hips.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

did you see the paperwork? 

While I totally agree with what Lee posted, and again, me personally I probably wouldn't buy a dog from him however, if you think it's something you want to pursue go for it, only you can make that decision.

Ok I'll be tacky, whats he asking for his puppies?

Ask him if you could have a copy of the pedigree for the breeding your interested in, and post it, that may shed some more light on things as well


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## devinh (Mar 2, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> did you see the paperwork?
> 
> While I totally agree with what Lee posted, and again, me personally I probably wouldn't buy a dog from him however, if you think it's something you want to pursue go for it, only you can make that decision.
> 
> ...


 
Yes i have seen all his paperwork, I have seen the pedigree on the male and female going back about 6 generations, He is going to mail me copies of all the paperwork.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

how are you picking the parents?

had a look at the site -- what to say , commercial operation written all over it -- very odd looking dogs , look like pet bred from American lines stock -- very peculiar heads on them -- hardly any dogs shown standing which would show conformation and no dogs shown with people or in dynamic action .

keep looking . my opinion


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Breeders can very safely offer to take the dog back if there are health issues, because face it, they know that you will be head-over-heel in love with that cute little irresistible furry bundle of puppy-breath, and won't be able to give him up after having him only a few short weeks or months.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I can print out pedigrees by the hundreds and show them to anyone...I can buy certified AKC pedigrees on any dog I want to buy one for....AKC papers are like auto registrations...a $500,000 Ferrari has one just like the 20 year old junker the friends kid paid $1500 for .....nothing but a paper identifying age, ownership, make and model....

Did you see the OFA certificates? Do you remember the names of the dogs? Look on the OFA website and find them.... Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

All puppies are cute!!!! Friendly house dogs are nice....quality is not always dictated by price either....

Before anyone can make a judgement on the quality of these dogs, pedigrees, credentials and price need to be evaluated....on face value, commercial low quality breeder of no distinction...

Lee


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

and sadly the breeder puts none of that information on the website...though payment options are very prominent.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

they don't even have a kennel name -- this is like some numbered account


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## irickchad (Feb 6, 2013)

Definitely do your homework. Seems oddly "puppymillish"


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