# question about allowing visitors



## chocolat (May 23, 2010)

I am curious what most people find as reasonable for having people visit your kennel to choose puppies.

People tend to have an uncanny ability to let their children roam wherever, so there is always a risk they will stick their hands where they arent suppose to.
Or causing dogs upset and lots of barking in the kennels
You never know what kennel the people have visited before they came to your place and what diseases they may be carrying
Then, there is the real biggie of the people scoping you out to rob or murder etc..(like the terrier woman that had her baby cut out of her)
So, what is generally accepted protocol for visiting kennels/breeders for puppy buyers? You want to avoid being called a "puppy mill" want to allow folks to trust you are indeed caring for the dogs properly and that the dogs are social or trained however you claim etc..but you want to avoid becoming a statistic


----------



## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

chocolat said:


> I am curious what most people find as reasonable for having people visit your kennel to choose puppies.
> 
> People tend to have an uncanny ability to let their children roam wherever, so there is always a risk they will stick their hands where they arent suppose to.
> Or causing dogs upset and lots of barking in the kennels
> ...


Carry a Glock compact 9mm on your person and have a GSD at your side always.


----------



## ZAYDA (Apr 22, 2010)

LOL. That is one idea.
How about setting rules and guidelines that you put in place to protect your dogs and yourself. I also feel if you are a breeder you have to show people who are interested in purchasing your pups so they can choose which one they want. If you are worried about getting murdered perhaps you need to find a new line of work and perhaps work out of your home, or even your basement.


----------



## chocolat (May 23, 2010)

ZAYDA said:


> LOL. That is one idea.
> How about setting rules and guidelines that you put in place to protect your dogs and yourself. I also feel if you are a breeder you have to show people who are interested in purchasing your pups so they can choose which one they want. If you are worried about getting murdered perhaps you need to find a new line of work and perhaps work out of your home, or even your basement.


 
Interesting...how many complete strangers do you allow to your house? and are you a guy carrying a glock or a woman home alone?


----------



## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

If you're that concerned, you should perhaps make it clear that a cell phone call is made first for an electronic record of who you invited and also ask for an official ID? Get their home address and google it. Insist on a photo from your phone, which you immediately email to yourself or a friend before you let them in? Seems like you live in a very dangerous place.


----------



## chocolat (May 23, 2010)

the phone idea has merrit.

We arent in a bad location per se..there are just crazy people n the world. I actually knew a lady that lived in the town where this occurred..she was friends with the slain woman

Bobbie Jo Stinnett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bobbie Jo Stinnett - The Murder of Bobbie Jo Stinnett

The slain woman raised terriers..I think rat terriers. She was on a breed chat board just like this one and had corresponded for months with this killer. The killer made an appointment to visit and possibly buy a puppy, but the reality was she was befriending this woman with the intention of stealing her baby.


----------



## ZAYDA (Apr 22, 2010)

chocolat said:


> Interesting...how many complete strangers do you allow to your house? and are you a guy carrying a glock or a woman home alone?


I don't see any reason to let anyone in your house. I would let people come to see or pick out their pup @ 5 weeks of age not sooner and I would bring them in my garage or my back yard. I don't think mass murders call people who are selling puppies but that is just me. Asking questions over the phone and getting appropriate answers would allow me to understand if that person is serious about buying my puppies.Then I would have to decide at that point weather to invite them over for a visit or not.


----------



## Gsdldy (May 7, 2010)

I generally try to make sure someone else is around. I also do not invite them into my home. BUT alot of this is moot since I dont allow puppy buyers to come and browse my pups to pick theirs. I do temperment testing and watch them as they develop and place the puppys in the home i feel is most appropriate. Any time I have a litter I make it clear to the prospective puppy homes that this is my policy. After they reach a certain age I do allow a visit or 2 to see them, I also encourage people to come meet the parents. BUT when this happens I make sure I am not home alone or that someone knows I have someone comeing to see a pup and their name. 
Not that I carry one around or anything but I do also have a rifle in the house, but it is for hunting not protection... However if I ever felt threatened enough I would not hesitate to grab it to make someone think twice. But generally the fact that there are 4 german shepherds around is enough to keep people in line.


----------



## ZAYDA (Apr 22, 2010)

I like that idea even more.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

chocolat said:


> I am curious what most people find as reasonable for having people visit your kennel to choose puppies.
> 
> People tend to have an uncanny ability to let their children roam wherever, so there is always a risk they will stick their hands where they arent suppose to.
> Or causing dogs upset and lots of barking in the kennels
> ...


Well, first we do not ever let customers choose their puppies. We select the best match for them. Sometimes we may have a couple of good candidates and allow someone to pick between those, but certainly not the entire litter.

We do allow visitors once the pups are mobile and aware and eyes and ears are open, usually after around 3 weeks or so.

People scoping out the place for plans of pillage and plunder, letting their children run amok, disturbing the dogs, or whatever else is not an issue because we do not have random strangers coming here ever. The only strangers who come to see pups are folks who are already on our reservation list, or are in the process of getting on it and meeting in person is the last step. That means they have already gone through most, if not all, of our interview and screening process, and thus we have already gotten to know them and check them out a bit before they come visit puppies. 

When we don't have pups we do sometimes have folks come by to meet us and the dogs when we don't have pups, for the purpose of everyone getting to know one another better to help decide if they might want to get on the list for a future litter, but again they aren't invited to visit until we've already communicated extensively over the phone. A goodly number of our potential customers are referrals from others, or people we already somewhat know beforehand, so that speaks a lot to their credibility and intentions as well. 

As far as health concerns, spreading disease and such, there is no kennel hopping taking place so bringing some nasty bug from a visit to another kennel earlier that day isn't a worry. Of course, nasty bugs can be picked up anywhere in the environment and there is always that concern, but I really think it's minimal. It's not like Tim or I stay at home for weeks on end lest we pick up germs from elsewhere. Or burn our clothes and take decontamination showers when we arrive home from somewhere before entering the house or going near the pups. We do have visitors wash their hands and remove jackets and shoes before entering the puppy area and handling pups, but that's about it. I really don't see any exceptional risk from a visitor bringing in any sort of disease. If the person was coming from a dog show or another kennel, perhaps, but we schedule appointments with folk ahead of time and there are no drop-ins, so that isn't an issue.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I go to my breeder friend's house a lot and often sit in when "puppy people" come. As far as I know she does not let just *anyone* come into her house, and certainly does not have complete strangers dropping in. She's already spoken to them on the phone or e-mailed at length and usually the "puppy people" are people she already knows or repeat buyers. Yesterday there were two guys that came but I was there and another couple we are friends with. We do go into the house, not a garage or yard or whatever but obviously the breeder is able to get a good feeling about people before they are allowed to come over and be welcomed into the home.

As far as spreading bugs, everyone uses common sense. Someone like me who owns multiple dogs and trains at multiple clubs does not go into the whelping box to handle newborns after I've just been to the dog park. Depending on the age of the puppies, I change into clothing that has been bleached and bagged until I change at the breeder's. Yesterday we dipped our shoes in bleach water and I changed clothes because I'd been training dogs beforehand and had held a stranger's puppy. There's always a risk but we all use common sense when visiting the puppies and if we don't then we probably wouldn't be invited to come in and handle them.


----------



## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Same as Chris. I know who they are before they ever come here to visit. I have their name, address, phone number, e-mail address, reference phone numbers etc. I also have a camera system at the front of the property. So, whoever shows up is being video taped the minute they pull up in front of the property. I installed that system after someone threatened my dogs because he didn't like I how charged for boarding. I was also stalked by the president of one of the local SchH clubs requiring a restraining order. So, after that, I stopped messing around and got serious. I also have dogs who will not hesitate to protect me and are in areas where they will be able to get to me if I need them. 
I do not allow anyone in unless they have an appointment. If people show up unannounced, I will talk to them over the fence and give them a card but they are not coming in unless I know them. Makes it more difficult for people who want to look at the boarding facility because they have been advised to show up without notice by people on the internet etc but that is the way it goes.
 I am not as paranoid as I might sound, just tired of idiots is all.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

chocolat said:


> I am curious what most people find as reasonable for having people visit your kennel to choose puppies.


Once again, the difference between potential new puppy owners dealing with 'responsible' breeders and having no issues. 

And those irresponsible breeders who have tons of issues and problems from all the strangers treking thru the house/yard.

I'm glad I only deal with responsible breeders! So much easier! :wub:


----------



## chocolat (May 23, 2010)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Once again, the difference between potential new puppy owners dealing with 'responsible' breeders and having no issues.
> 
> And those irresponsible breeders who have tons of issues and problems from all the strangers treking thru the house/yard.
> 
> I'm glad I only deal with responsible breeders! So much easier! :wub:


 
sorry not following the logic here? are you saying mary jo stinnet deserved to die because she wasnt responsible enough breeder in your book? I dont even know her personally, I would need to double check but I believe she was a show type breeder.
are you saying that people who robbed, murder and mean ill will are only targeting commercial breeders?
are you suggesting that somehow because you think you are a "good"breeder or deal only with "good"breeders that somehow you are all insulated from the world's evils?

Mary Jo chatted on a terrier chat forum like this one for months with the lady that killed her. In fact, the lady lived near her and yet represented herself as someone different online. They had logs and records of the conversation. There was no way for Mary Jo to know what this persons true intentions were, and they knew who it was that did this to her and her baby. It didnt take long to figure out the culprit, but in the end that didnt save the breeder.

commercial breeders live in fear of people like you, who judge them not for the quality of the dogs they may have, not for the quality of care the dogs may get, but because they dont sell their dogs the way YOU feel is right. They are targets all the time, and it is a sad day when another human thinks its ok for a commercial breeder to die or have harm come to them because they do things differently than someone else

and in answer the the unasked question, no I dont raise dogs commercially and I didnt ask my question because I dont care for my dogs or that I raise some untold incorrect number of puppies. I am curious how people are able to show their dogs to puppy buyers and keep themselves and their dogs safe from all the creeps out there on the internet and in the world.

seems the best answer I got so far was to keep the glock handy and a shepherd willing to protect his home and family.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

A crazy is a crazy, regardless. 
Mary Jo unfortunately crossed paths with a crazy. 
You could be selling a car or a piece of furniture and some crazy will decide to make you a victim. Guns and dogs may or may not help


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

onyx'girl said:


> *A crazy is a crazy, regardless.*
> Mary Jo unfortunately crossed paths with a crazy.
> You could be selling a car or a piece of furniture and some crazy will decide to make you a victim. Guns and dogs may or may not help


*"A crazy is a crazy, regardless."* Isn't that the truth.



> seems the best answer I got so far was to keep the glock handy and a shepherd willing to protect his home and family.


How come I read the above and didn't come to that conclusion at all???  Those are good responsible breeders who replied and I don't think they have been almost murdered by any of their potential puppy owners. I also don't think they greeted everyone with a Glock handy (or at least I didn't see one in Chris's hand.....)


----------



## R3C0NWARR10R (Mar 26, 2010)

chocolat said:


> seems the best answer I got so far was to keep the glock handy and a shepherd willing to protect his home and family.


This is always my option Except I use a Glock22 in the .40S&W I actually think I scared a few of the people who train the first time I was there because I showed up with it on my side in the open. (got to love open carry states) I was showing up to a place I had not been before and meeting new people and what not. Though I am a proponent of CCW.

In this day and age you can almost never truly know who you are dealing with especially if you do it via phone or online. You could always meet the person first in a nuetral place and then go from there. Plus carry the sidearm:wild:


----------



## R3C0NWARR10R (Mar 26, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> A crazy is a crazy, regardless.
> Mary Jo unfortunately crossed paths with a crazy.
> You could be selling a car or a piece of furniture and some crazy will decide to make you a victim. Guns and dogs may or may not help


They may or may not but they sure do give you that extra chance.


----------



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

chocolat said:


> sorry not following the logic here? are you saying mary jo stinnet deserved to die because she wasnt responsible enough breeder in your book? I dont even know her personally, I would need to double check but I believe she was a show type breeder.
> are you saying that people who robbed, murder and mean ill will are only targeting commercial breeders?
> are you suggesting that somehow because you think you are a "good"breeder or deal only with "good"breeders that somehow you are all insulated from the world's evils?
> 
> ...


obviously she no one said she deserved to die or that bad breeders deserve to die

from your other post I guess the best way to keep yourself safe is send your pups to a pet shop and let them deal with the crazies


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Uh I think you got LOTS of good answers. Screen people via phone and e-mail, require them to provide you with detailed info, accept buyers that you know or had referred by people you know and trust, have other people with you if someone you don't know well is coming over, only allow planned visits.

I would not go visit puppies in a breeder's garage with a loose protection dog and a loaded sidearm out. Sheesh if someone is THAT distrusting of me, just tell me you don't want to see me or sell me a dog!


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> *"* I also don't think they greeted everyone with a Glock handy (or at least I didn't see one in Chris's hand.....)


I much prefer my Sigs. And an inside the waistband holster is sufficient. Quick enough access but easier to shake hands that way. 

Seriously, I agree a crazy is a crazy. You can encounter them anywhere. Being careful and screening people first will go a long way in reducing the chances of such an encounter, but certainly can't eliminate it entirely. So goes life. Though I do think I'm more likely to run into such a nutjob on that crazyville known as I-94 at rush hour every morning, or at the gas station, or Walmart, than I am a prescreened individual coming to my home to see dogs.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Liesje said:


> I would not go visit puppies in a breeder's garage with a loose protection dog and a loaded sidearm out. Sheesh if someone is THAT distrusting of me, just tell me you don't want to see me or sell me a dog!


I agree with that!


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I think another good idea would be to require everyone to sanitize their hands. And maybe make a no-kid rule. As far as kennels go, well... I don't like many breeders that are kennel breeders, so I won't comment on that.. 

I would have no problem letting someone into the common areas of my home to visit pups, but they wouldn't be choosing which one they take. 



Chris Wild said:


> I much prefer my Sigs. And an inside the waistband holster is sufficient. Quick enough access but easier to shake hands that way.
> 
> Seriously, I agree a crazy is a crazy. You can encounter them anywhere. Being careful and screening people first will go a long way in reducing the chances of such an encounter, but certainly can't eliminate it entirely. So goes life. Though I do think I'm more likely to run into such a nutjob on that crazyville known as I-94 at rush hour every morning, or at the gas station, or Walmart, than I am a prescreened individual coming to my home to see dogs.


Since when is I-94 known as Crazyville? Am I behind on the times?


----------



## chocolat (May 23, 2010)

Today is the first day I had a stranger(other than a repair type person) visit since I have had my girls. I must admit I didnt feel nervous or worried as I thought I would.
My girls politely said hello to the strangers and escorted us around as we chatted about horses and other things.
It made me feel safe(not that the people were odd or anything)
so, maybe folks are right get some contact info, and dialogue going and always have your shepherd handy


----------

