# Opinions on this breeder?



## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

Has anyone ever heard of of had experience from this breeder German Shepherd Puppies for Sale in NY
I've been visiting and speaking with a lot of different breeders trying to find the type of dog I am looking for but every breeder that has dogs I think I'd like, I go and see them and they all have the "sloped" backs that I really, really don't like. This is the first breeder I've seen that has black/tans, black/reds that have a back like I'm looking for.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

from the website~ I don't see anything impressive. Health tests/titles.... nothing is shown to support they are breeding responsibly. 4 dogs with call names only, why don't the give their registered names?
Structure, IMO doesn't look very athletic from the photo's, the dogs look a bit overweight.


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## weberhaus (Jan 2, 2008)

To be Honest this breeder looks like they are just breeding there pet dogs without health testing. As far as a sloped back you referred to if the dog is stacked ( show side profile showing the correct angulation ) for the breed that is not a bad thing. The breed standard for a healthy dog means that some angulation is best for this breed however some dogs are roached back in this area. In order to tell if the dog is correct you should look at a picture stacked and also standing normal. I have attached a stacked photo of my black and tan male


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Steve Hong is expecting a litter. Also Jim Hill. Both would be closer and they health test and work the dogs.

We have a daughter of Zwack (Jim's male) out of a breeding that Steve did - she trains in our club. Very good female.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

it really raises a red flag with me as far as not listing Hips/elbows, DM testing, pedigree, ect too. Maybe they just don't list it on their website, definitely will email about that. The dogs do look a little big, but their backs have the same look as my GSD who still gets around fine on her own and is 15, I haven't seen that look in many other black and tans/reds. All the WGSL breeders I have visited do get their dogs hip/elbow tested but most of their dogs have the "sloped" back that I really don't like, not just stacked but when they are standing naturally or moving they have that look.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

I wouldn't buy from that breeder. I can go more into why later, must get back to taking care of my hospitalized patients. 

And well bred shepherds SHOULD have a slight slope. The problem is extremes, just like anything else, and this is usually (BUT NOT ALWAYS) seen in showlines that are often bred for an elongated trot vs. working lines that are hopefully bred to have a functional conformation structure). The topline should be straight but move down into a slightly sloping croup. The rear end should never be level to or higher than the shoulders. That to me still screams bad breeder, the same breeders that breed these over sized monsters and call them "old fashion" because they don't know anything about the breed

Proper standard:
"Body – The upper line runs from the base of the neck via the high, long withers and via the straight back towards the slightly sloping croup, without visible interruption. The back is moderately long, firm, strong and well-muscled. The loin is broad, short, strongly developed and well-muscled. The croup should be long and slightly sloping (approx 23° to the horizontal) and the upper line should merge into the base of the tail without interruption."

Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV) E.V. / Original version: (D)


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Have you looked at Hawks Hunt Farm?


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I didn't know they were supposed to have an angled back, that is interesting to know. If the rear or back of the dog (like my dog in the pic) is level to or higher than the withers is that considered a roached back? A slight angle wouldn't be bad I just don't see how a lot of these dogs that have that squatting look when they move or stand normally get around well when they are older. I just looked at the Hawks Hunt Farm website, beautiful dogs and they look like they have a good strong stature. Will definitely keep them in mind when I go to NY this spring.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

A roached back would be more mid spine, like you see in some WGSL. But yes I would call the dogs top line in your profile pic (from what I can see) innapropriate because the hind end appears higher than the withers.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Here's a nice litter that should be local to you.. Might be worth contacting..

German Shepherd Puppies | Kady x Gerry (Lynn Salganik, Maryland USA)

And this one...

http://www.vereinigtestolzschaferhund.com/new-litter-arrivals/


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

And one more... 

von Wolfstraum has a nice litter due in a couple of weeks..

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/bree...&mother=718817


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I'm definitely going to check out the breeder in Hampstead, it's like 5 minutes from me and the dogs look great. Do either of those breeders ever have black tans/reds? I couldn't see the Wolfstraum link.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

See if this works...

Line-breeding for the progency of Iron von den Wolfen and SG Ziberia von alten Wingertshaus


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I won't have black and reds - but pure black working lines.....looks like a big litter, so maybe a few available....

Thanks Leesa!

Lee


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