# Nipped my child 😟



## ShermanGepherd (Apr 11, 2021)

Hi,
This is going to be very long as I'd really like to give all information possible just to get some advice. Please bare with me and take the time to read my post as I really need some help 😢

We have acquired a young German shepherd he is 12-18m old with a sad background. He had a bit of a rough start to life, he was born to 2 dogs at an elderly man's house who allowed his dogs to breed and breed. The old man fell ill and was taken to hospital and the dogs were left for a few weeks. Had to fight for food etc. When they were found by the RSPCA they were very malnourished and scared. He was then taken in by a farmer along with the other 10 of his brothers and sisters and they were fed and brought up to health and rehomed. When we bought him the seller unfortunately brushed past the severity of the situation. We don't feel if we actually knew the full background, we would have taken him in as wouldn't have actually been a good fit for our circumstances. We were led to believe he was coming from a family home and was being rehomed due to not liking their horses who they spent alot of time with. Its not until we spoke to them after bringing him home they were fully honest about his background.

Going on now to him coming into our care a bit of background to our life, we're a young married couple 3 children 7,3 and 3mnths, large house with a garden, and both experienced dog owners (both had them all our lives) we also own a schnauzer...we've had GSD a little over a week and he's not getting on great with our other dog (although we were told he was fine with other dogs and children as the farmer had both dogs and children). We introduced him to 2 dog behaviourists/trainers(married couple), lovely pair, definitely seemed to know what they were talking about. Who came and met him and said he was very frightened, still slightly malnourished, timid, scared etc. And suffering from something he referred to as trigger stacking, where stressful situations build up for him. The man who was the large dog expert said he needed to settle in with us for at least 3 weeks before they could fully analyse his behaviour and we agreed to keep in touch sending photos and videos of his progress of coming out his shell. Of course I was very wary of the dog around my children as he is big and powerful, he really doesn't seem to even realise he is as big as he is! They have never been left alone with him, neither me or my husband would allow that. We have ALWAYS taught our children to be respectful of any dog and their space.
So today my husband took GSD on a walk which he had a confrontation with an unruly unleashed dog (which actually shook my husband up). They came back my husband came into the garden with GSD still on his leash and my 2 older children were jumping on their trampoline. In hindsight this was a terrible idea from the offset. GSD seemed fine, rolled on the floor, ate a bit of grass, wondered about then out of nowhere leapt up to the edge of the trampoline barked and nipped my sons(3yo) leg. We are actually unsure whether it was an intentional nip or just a fact of catching him whilst barking.

Horrified my husband took in the dog and shut him in the dining room and we saw to my son. The skin wasn't broken, but it left a mark, he was very upset but we soothed him and then called the behaviourists for their advice. Just to clarify we never reprimanded the dog just a firm NO and he was put in the dining room. The behaviourist said he really couldn't advise WHY it had happened since he hadn't seen the event or anything leading up to it. But to not make any rash decisions due to his background and it would take several weeks and some work to get him calm and happy. Now my immediate maternal response was "he has to go" and I think that is the real conclusion that any sane person would make, and in all honestly probably the decision we will take, but he is so loving and sweet already and admittedly I am already very attached to him I have spent all evening in tears and I'm not sure if it was all just a horrible accident instigated by our stupidity and negligence not being vigilant enough. Then on the other hand in my mind I am thinking oh my god if he really got him it couldve been a terrible injury with physical and emotional scars, we were lucky this time but might not be next time.. what if he doesn't like something the baby does when she is inevitably on the move. Is he more suited to be with a person without children and other animals. Baring in mind we previously never had any concerns with him with regards to the children and the farmer was horrified when we told her. She assured us nothing like that had ever happened before and sent us several photos of her children with GSD. And suggested maybe he was playing and it was unintentional. I dont really know what I am expecting in ways of answers or advise. I would just like people's input from an outsiders point of view who also really care for dogs, knows this breeds temperament and can give advice. Thank you for sticking with my novel of a post and making it this far! It's appreciated 🐾


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

The first important point is that if the dog meant to hurt the child, it would have. Dogs have extreme control over their bite.

The behaviorist mentioned stacking triggers. If he didn't explain it, what that means is a build up of cortisol, a stress hormone, due to repeated exposure to stressful events. This hormone lasts 2 weeks in the body and repeated exposure can stretch that out to a month.

Cortisol makes the dog feel unsafe. It can instigate fight/flight reaction to stimulus that seems rather normal. It's basically turns the volume up on life.

Please give the dog a few weeks to settle in. He may behave like an entirely different dog after everything burns off and he has become accustomed to your home.

To do that safely, no trampolines, screaming kids running at him, fireworks, gun ranges, unnecessary stress of any kind.









Two Week Shutdown For the Dogs New Beginning


“Two Weeks! Give them a break!” The Action: “I have a new dog!” ” I found/adopted a dog!” “I introduced her to 15 people” … ” he was a bi…




k9ei.dog


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

We'll, having an altercation with an unleashed dog that shook your husband up, and then stepping into a situation where kids are screaming and jumping on a trampoline, and expecting an unsocialized puppy to what? to just lay around and expect the world to be perfectly ok? I think your expectations are unrealistic. That hormone that happens when they are in a situation where they feel they have to fight for their life, like when they are in a dog fight, that doesn't just dissipate in a few minutes. Putting a dog that has just been in a fight in with another dog is probably going to cause another fight, regardless of the second dog's reaction. What your husband did was to put such a dog in with your kids who were kind of horsing around. GSDs are often known as the "fun police." Because running and screaming and hitting each other in front of them can cause issues. I think the dog was set up to fail and it failed in your opinion. Your kids are the most important -- no one wants them to be bitten or afraid of dogs. Really, maybe the best thing is to send your dog back to the farm and see if they can find a different home for him. I don't think that by what you said there is anything wrong with the dog, it just might not be the right fit for your family.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I agree with David that your dog needs a two week, low key, no stress shutdown to get used to his new surroundings.

But you were lied to by the farmer and also the SPCA and yours is not a family situation that should/would have been suitable for an adoption locale imo. You wouldn't have been approved by a responsible rescue and as you said, you wouldn't have accepted under full disclosure.

Unfortunately, I'd be prepared to return this poor dog in a heartbeat as I don't think it's a good situation for him or your family. I'd want him placed with experienced owners, no other dogs and no young kids.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

out of curiosity, was the SPCA story confirmed? it isn’t common for a civilian to be able to adopt 11 puppies (or young adults / adults even).

i do feel there is potential for this dog, unfortunately i don’t know that i’d be willing to take the risk with young children in the home, especially given your experience level.

trust your maternal instincts.


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## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

After reading your post, I get the impression that you have already made up your mind to give away the dog, and that might be the best thing given your situation. 

With 3 young children, one being only 3 months old, I can imagine it being difficult to look after a new dog, especially one that you feel might need more help and training. 

It’s hard to evaluate the situation, which to me sounds like an accident and not a true bite or attempted bite, but that’s just based on your description of the incident. 

At this point you’re worried about your children’s safety and it sounds as if it is going to be hard for you to trust the dog in the future. Maybe finding a new home for the dog would be in everybody’s best interest.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

In the first couple of years, in my opinion, raising a german shepherd puppy takes as much time, emotion and energy as raising a human toddler. With a 3 month old and a three year old child, combined with the dog's history, you'd have to maintain a lot of vigilance to ensure no further mishaps. Little children can behave in an exciting prey like manner, from a dog's perspective. Sleep deprivation with having a 3 month old can 'stack the deck' against you emotionally. There's no cause to feel guilt or shame if the decision you make is to rehome the dog. All the best to you in the decision you make.


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## ShermanGepherd (Apr 11, 2021)

Thank you I appreciate all the honest feedback. We are and have been completely willing to put the time and money into insuring he can get over his issues (once we found them out). Our stance has been on it basically - we WOULD have said no to him had we known, but we didn't and he is here now. I dont want him going from pillar to post he is a good, handsome boy and deserves so much better than that. He deserves the best life. 
Luckily it hasn't frightened my son and he isn't jumpy or scared of him or his presence which I thank God for. Nor my daughter who witnessed it. Infact she said she believed it to be an accidental nip from getting to close when barking. 
My husband and I accept full responsibility for the situation and we should have never put the Max in that situation. As Selzer said we set him up to fail. We shouldve either asked the kids to leave the garden for max or not brought him outside. I did not feel at any point any anger towards max, only myself. My instinct says it was indeed what my daughter said. We arent going to make any rash decisions as our trainer advised as we don't feel rehoming is a decision that can be made over night. Just be extra vigilant for the next few weeks, see how he gets on and KEEP THE KIDS AWAY. They are off school at the moment (I'm in the UK and it is school holidays) when they go back they will be less present anyway. But if he stays I need to be 100% confident that I can let my guard down slightly and not be regimental and strict with my children even coming downstairs, which is what is happening at the moment as that isn't fair on them. We have a lot of thinking to do....


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

This GSD needs more time and training than you can give him time wise. I am sure you will always be on your guard and dogs feel it. Do what's best for your family. And I think this dog has more success with a better suited home. But don't beat yourself up over it


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Sherman --- thanks for the follow up post and even more for being willing to accept the advise people give you. Young dogs, screaming/yelling kids are not a good mix until the dog gets way settled and maybe not even then + esp the trampoline & other circumstances (upset human). --- let me just add, try not to get too shook up when something stupid happens like the off-leash dog whamming into you on a walk... Dogs pick up on that stuff & when your dog himself is prone to being keyed up... OK you get the picture.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Noisy, rapidly moving children most likely triggered the dog's play/prey drive, and he was trying to catch the jumping child. The fact the skin wasn't broken to me says it was 'only in play', and not a serious bite.

Still, the risk is there. This is not a stable dog right now, and accidents could happen. I think rehoming is the safest thing to do. You never know when kids are going to break the rules. My husband and I had a GSD that wasn't good with kids. We'd told the neighbour's children to be very cautious around her, and not to get their faces close to her. We were always there to supervise when they were near the dog. In spite of this, their daughter (who absolutely LOVES dogs) decided to hug her one day. She got bitten on the face, but fortunately, it was just a warning bite, and there was only a single drop of blood where her lip got knocked against her teeth.

The girl apologized for letting it happen. Her parents got her a pound puppy for her 16th birthday, and her mom is still my best friend!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

ShermanGepherd said:


> Thank you I appreciate all the honest feedback. We are and have been completely willing to put the time and money into insuring he can get over his issues (once we found them out). Our stance has been on it basically - we WOULD have said no to him had we known, but we didn't and he is here now. I dont want him going from pillar to post he is a good, handsome boy and deserves so much better than that. He deserves the best life.
> Luckily it hasn't frightened my son and he isn't jumpy or scared of him or his presence which I thank God for. Nor my daughter who witnessed it. Infact she said she believed it to be an accidental nip from getting to close when barking.
> My husband and I accept full responsibility for the situation and we should have never put the Max in that situation. As Selzer said we set him up to fail. We shouldve either asked the kids to leave the garden for max or not brought him outside. I did not feel at any point any anger towards max, only myself. My instinct says it was indeed what my daughter said. We arent going to make any rash decisions as our trainer advised as we don't feel rehoming is a decision that can be made over night. Just be extra vigilant for the next few weeks, see how he gets on and KEEP THE KIDS AWAY. They are off school at the moment (I'm in the UK and it is school holidays) when they go back they will be less present anyway. But if he stays I need to be 100% confident that I can let my guard down slightly and not be regimental and strict with my children even coming downstairs, which is what is happening at the moment as that isn't fair on them. We have a lot of thinking to do....


Time does help some of this. An adolescent dog is kind of like an adolescent kid -- they can make dumb mistakes and they do have more energy, etc. I think the dog grows with the family and into the family. If the family (kids) are gone, than they return months later, it isn't quite the same as if the dog and kids are together daily through those months. So if the kids are going away to school, like boarding school, then that isn't necessarily going to help, but if the kids are just going to be out of the house for six to eight hours, so there is less actual time with the kids and dogs, that can probably be better all around. In the mean time, there is nothing wrong with kenneling or crating the dog for part of every day. Give yourself a break, give the kids a break. Kids want to play on the trampoline, put the dog in a crate/kennel. It won't hurt him. I nice meaty bone in there and a strict rule that no one bothers the dog when he is crated, can make crate time a positive thing. Don't get me wrong, GSDs LOVE being with their family and they LOVE kids, but they can also be over-tired or over-stimulated, just like an obnoxious toddler, and having a place where the dog can be relaxed and have some down time can be good.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

You are not even sure if this was a intentional nip or accidental. Did the dog seem to be agitated towards your kids when your kids exited the trampoline then it would sound intentional. So people telling you to rehome your is a bit dramatic as you are unsure of what exactly happened. You are still in the process of figuring each other out. The dog is new to the home and often there is a few weeks of adjustment. Dogs do get over excited at the trampoline especially young dogs it is quit common. Kids jumping up and like bubble gum balls in a big netted device can be very over stimulating to a young dog. It resembles a popcorn machine swallowing up kids. A lot of dogs like to bite at the trampoline matt or go underneath the trampoline and bite at the trampoline Matt. I have a trampoline my dogs get excited with the trampoline when my kids are jumping in it. They like to bark at the trampoline and run underneath it. My dogs are not trying to bite the kids. The dogs are either put away when it’s trampoline time if I’m not outside with the dogs. I was in the vets office and a there was a German shepherd who got excited and jumping up and barking putting his paws on the trampoline mat got his paw stuck in the springs and sliced up his paw pads. it was a mess. I would not use this situation to deem the dog unfit with kids. It is best to put the dog away , crate the dog when they kids are on the trampoline or any kind of situation similar as you are still getting to all know each other. It is good to work with a trainer when bringing new adult dog into a home that is adjusting to help you evaluate, establish boundaries etc.


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## ShermanGepherd (Apr 11, 2021)

Jenny720 said:


> You are not even sure if this was a intentional nip or accidental. Did the dog seem to be agitated towards your kids when your kids exited the trampoline then it would sound intentional. So people telling you to rehome your is a bit dramatic as you are unsure of what exactly happened. You are still in the process of figuring each other out. The dog is new to the home and often there is a few weeks of adjustment. Dogs do get over excited at the trampoline especially young dogs it is quit common. Kids jumping up and like bubble gum balls in a big netted device can be very over stimulating to a young dog. It resembles a popcorn machine swallowing up kids. A lot of dogs like to bite at the trampoline matt or go underneath the trampoline and bite at the trampoline Matt. I have a trampoline my dogs get excited with the trampoline when my kids are jumping in it. They like to bark at the trampoline and run underneath it. My dogs are not trying to bite the kids. The dogs are either put away when it’s trampoline time if I’m not outside with the dogs. I was in the vets office and a there was a German shepherd who got excited and jumping up and barking putting his paws on the trampoline mat got his paw stuck in the springs and sliced up his paw pads. it was a mess. I would not use this situation to deem the dog unfit with kids. It is best to put the dog away , crate the dog when they kids are on the trampoline or any kind of situation similar as you are still getting to all know each other. It is good to work with a trainer when bringing new adult dog into a home that is adjusting to help you evaluate, establish boundaries etc.
> View attachment 572099


Thank you so much. He's still with us, and we're taking things slowly I really don't want to rehome him when he's already just been rehomed. Its so unfair. He's shown no aggression at all any other time to anything. So your comment has made me feel a bit better in that I'm not being totally mad and irresponsible to be wanting to keep him. Obviously my children's safety is 100% priority but it genuinely could have been that he was trying to play and just caught him accidentally, it happened pretty quickly to be able to say with any certainty he did it aggressively and he is still young himself. The farmer who had him previously suggested he might have been trying to play also as he loved to play with their kids. He just clearly doesn't know ours yet. 
I forgot to mention previously that once we let him back out of the dining room shortly after, he went straight outside and laid under the trampoline exactly in the spot it happened. I dont know if that is relevant. And probably isn't the case but it felt like he was saying sorry!!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

The trampoline can be easily over stimulating it can awaken his prey or herding drive. It is not the same as playing with the kids. Lying under the trampoline he may be wanting the game to start again which someone can get hurt unintentionally. He may be looking for shade I don’t know. I would just call him over if he ventures over to the trampoline. The trampoline is completely of limits to him even when not in use. Even if he has the slightest interest in the trampoline i would call him to you regardless if no one is on it. If it is in use he needs to be crated. It may be worth ditching the trampoline all together if you find he is super focused with the trampoline. It takes while for dogs to adjust to their new homes especially German shepherds. There is something called the two week shutdown when being home dogs to a new environment. At this point everything is overwhelming and new akin to starting a new job or new school, moving to a new neighborhood etc. so much to process.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Jupiter's first two years (I got him at 11 weeks), even though I trained and socialized him extensively, were rather challenging. He nipped us a lot as a puppy--something I'd never experienced in my previous dogs--and there was always that bit of "edge" that is probably more common in the breed than your average pet dog. That being said, he is quite calm and trustworthy around the family nowadays... around two, he started to "calm down."


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

My first breeder refused to sell a dog to anyone with children younger than school age for safety reasons, both for the dog and the children. If you plan to keep him, and I’m not sure I would recommend rehoming him again, get a trainer and work with him as much as you can.


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## ShermanGepherd (Apr 11, 2021)

LuvShepherds said:


> My first breeder refused to sell a dog to anyone with children younger than school age for safety reasons, both for the dog and the children. If you plan to keep him, and I’m not sure I would recommend rehoming him again, get a trainer and work with him as much as you can.


Thank you. We have a trainer/behaviourist we are working with at the moment for him but he said really until he's settled and been with us at least 3 weeks there's not alot they can do except give advice. After that they will work with us as much as we want/need. We've had a breakthrough this evening, he's been playing with my husband, he even rolled over and exposed his belly for belly rubs 🤭 he also was chasing his tail 😆 so I think he's starting to settle and his playful personality is coming through. But I am sure not to let my guard down (where the children are concerned) too soon and allow him to continue to find his paws with us x


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

I would keep an eye on tail chasing, it can be innocent but it can also happen because of his anxiety and can develop into OCD. There’s a lot of posts about it on this forum.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

ShermanGepherd said:


> Thank you. We have a trainer/behaviourist we are working with at the moment for him but he said really until he's settled and been with us at least 3 weeks there's not alot they can do except give advice. After that they will work with us as much as we want/need. We've had a breakthrough this evening, he's been playing with my husband, he even rolled over and exposed his belly for belly rubs 🤭 he also was chasing his tail 😆 so I think he's starting to settle and his playful personality is coming through. But I am sure not to let my guard down (where the children are concerned) too soon and allow him to continue to find his paws with us x


I had a different herding breed dog when my children were born and I never left them alone together until my children were around 4-5, and he was not a danger to them in any way. Follow the two week shutdown mentioned above. You can do that longer as your trainer suggests. It takes a while for a dog to get used to a new family and a new home.


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## SFDOC (Apr 7, 2011)

Sent you a PM


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## Zeemanmp (Feb 8, 2016)

ShermanGepherd said:


> Hi,
> This is going to be very long as I'd really like to give all information possible just to get some advice. Please bare with me and take the time to read my post as I really need some help 😢
> 
> We have acquired a young German shepherd he is 12-18m old with a sad background. He had a bit of a rough start to life, he was born to 2 dogs at an elderly man's house who allowed his dogs to breed and breed. The old man fell ill and was taken to hospital and the dogs were left for a few weeks. Had to fight for food etc. When they were found by the RSPCA they were very malnourished and scared. He was then taken in by a farmer along with the other 10 of his brothers and sisters and they were fed and brought up to health and rehomed. When we bought him the seller unfortunately brushed past the severity of the situation. We don't feel if we actually knew the full background, we would have taken him in as wouldn't have actually been a good fit for our circumstances. We were led to believe he was coming from a family home and was being rehomed due to not liking their horses who they spent alot of time with. Its not until we spoke to them after bringing him home they were fully honest about his background.
> ...


We have a 5 year old female GSD that we got as a puppy ( so no bad past). She’s always been great with our grandchildren ( now 10,8 and 5) however she is “motion” activated and I can see her getting overly excited at times when they are running around the yard when she’s out with them and I bring her in. I had the same problem during agility class when a dog would be running or jumping in the area next to us. She’s not mad but definitely in high drive. There are probably trainers that could work out a plan to deal with that, I’m just not that good so I work around it. Of course that‘s easier for me with no children in the home. I will say that she has never been affected that way when the kids run and jump inside it seems to be just an outside thing.


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