# Time To Prong



## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

I see a lot on this topic and I've read a handful of them, I think it's time to at least give a prong collar a try. I've been working with a flat collar since I got my pup who is now 7.5 months old, and the last 2 months I've really really been working on no tension on the leash. She has gotten better with changing direction and saying "heel", but eventually what she will do is just dart/pull hard in the opposite direction when I say "heel". 

The two things that happened recently to make me rethink I should try a prong is: 1. Talking to a lady with a small dog and Halo is literally flat on all fours pulling toward this dog and she is very strong. 2. I take her to places like lowes/home depot and changing direction works at the beginning but eventually she does the same dart/pull when I change direction. Also, today I took her to a clothing store and no matter how much slack or how tight I had the leash I couldn't get any kind of heel going, the best I could do is get her to down and calm for a minute or two at a time(with treats)... I hate to think how much pressure was on her neck with the flat collar at the store today. 

Sorry for the long post, is it time to try the prong? If I do start using a prong, does anyone see an issue going with chrome instead of stainless steel? I also tried the no-pull harness but rarely use is cause it just seems to be masking the pulling problem. She still pulls with it, there's just not as much tension on my end.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

She is a puppy who is acting like a puppy. Start working her at home where there is no distractions to begin and when she starts to pull, you stop. When the lead relaxes you start walking again. She pulls, you stop. It may take twenty minutes to get five feet to begin with. That's all right. You have to undo what she's already learned. Does she need to heel or just walk nicely at your side? There's a difference. If it's just at your side with a loose lead you might want to consider using a different word. I, personally, would not go to a prong.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

7.5 months is too young to expect a consistent heel imo. I had to start using a prong collar at 5 months as my pup would just choke herself and drag me all over the place on a flat collar. At 16 months, I seldom use it now. So, I would say yes use one. It should be used as a training collar. I had to use it as a management tool. Chrome is fine. I'd get the small one and extra links if you have to and put it up high on the neck behind the ears. Change direction w/o looking at your dog while the lead is slack. She'll hit the end of the line if she's not paying attention to you and self correct. Of course you can use it as an aversive and pop her if the circumstances require a correction.


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

I totally agree with Deb. I saw an episode of "The Dog Whisper" and it said to do exactly what Deb stated. At first, I did not believe in Caesar but when I tried it with Titan; he acknowledged the intention and now walks with me. I will admit, I sometimes have to remind him but not as much. I will say this too, it's also has to be consistent. I take Titan for a dog walk everyday (rain or shine) for 45 to 60 mins. I have bought him and I good rain gear for the days it crappy outside....


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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

Deb said:


> She is a puppy who is acting like a puppy. Start working her at home where there is no distractions to begin and when she starts to pull, you stop. When the lead relaxes you start walking again. She pulls, you stop. It may take twenty minutes to get five feet to begin with. That's all right. You have to undo what she's already learned. Does she need to heel or just walk nicely at your side? There's a difference. If it's just at your side with a loose lead you might want to consider using a different word. I, personally, would not go to a prong.


Based on you saying it may take 25 min to walk 5 feet, I must not be consistent enough with stopping, but I have been doing this method. By the time the leash is loose, she pulls again, if I walk the other way she darts past me. I'd like her just to walk nicely if I'm walking her in the neighborhood/trails, but would like her to heel in stores/places with a lot of people.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Nothing wrong with a prong. It's probably less damaging than the flat and the amount of pressure. The prong should have rounded edges. And I recommend using the prong as a tool not a permanent fix. Use it to show her what you expect and eventually you shouldn't need it anymore. At 7.5 months she is more than capable of walking loose leash and paying attention what you are doing.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

KillRbee18 said:


> I totally agree with Deb. I saw an episode of "The Dog Whisper" and it said to do exactly what Deb stated. At first, I did not believe in Caesar but when I tried it with Titan; he acknowledged the intention and now walks with me. I will admit, I sometimes have to remind him but not as much. I will say this too, it's also has to be consistent. I take Titan for a dog walk everyday (rain or shine) for 45 to 60 mins. I have bought him and I good rain gear for the days it crappy outside....


Well to be fair to Cesar, he did not invent the technique. You are simply taking a self rewarding behavior and making it not fun anymore.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

MT523 said:


> Based on you saying it may take 25 min to walk 5 feet, I must not be consistent enough with stopping, but I have been doing this method. By the time the leash is loose, she pulls again, if I walk the other way she darts past me. I'd like her just to walk nicely if I'm walking her in the neighborhood/trails, but would like her to heel in stores/places with a lot of people.


I am a little confused as to whether you are trying to train your dog to loose leash walk or to heel.

I prefer loose leash walking as I can give the dog 50', 6' or 1' of leash, or anything in between, or even hold its collar, and maintain a loose leash, and I find that way I really don't even need to teach heel as then I personally don't need it. You might need a verbal heel command and position though, and that should be taught separate from loose leash walking.

As Deb said, walking and stopping when there is pressure and moving again when the leash is slack is a simple and effective method that really trains a dog. Deb must be a better teacher than me, as I find it could take much longer just to go a few feet and return. :smile2:

Practice and consistency is key.


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## Breaker's mom (May 27, 2008)

I have done the stop and wait technique with two of my pups a rescue and just starting it with a third rescue pup. I do like training that is really allowing these dogs to figure it out, rather then all force and commands. I of course live the country where being on leash is not a common thing and really need to spend more time just taking them into town and practicing on a sidewalk sometimes. That said it really does seem to work. Just at first you have to count to ten a lot to recoup patience as your five foot walk can take quite a while.


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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am a little confused as to whether you are trying to train your dog to loose leash walk or to heel.
> 
> I prefer loose leash walking as I can give the dog 50', 6' or 1' of leash, or anything in between, or even hold its collar, and maintain a loose leash, and I find that way I really don't even need to teach heel as then I personally don't need it. You might need a verbal heel command and position though, and that should be taught separate from loose leash walking.
> 
> ...


For loose leash or heel, both! But at this point loose leash might be the only option. I will need to figure it out, and figure out if I need a different command. 

I will keep working on walking and stopping but still leaning toward a prong. So say she is pulling, I stop and she sits with no tension on the leash... She's still 6 feet ahead of me so when I take one or two steps she keeps pulling I just stop, and repeat till she doesn't pull at all? Should I try to coax her to get closer to me?


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

If you want to teach heel then work on heel position separately from walking right now. Just practice loose leash walking. If you want to do it without prong then you need to give her less leash to start with. If you have a six foot leash give her three to four foot. You can either stop when she pulls on the leash and say no and wait for her to come back to you, or when the leash gets tight immediately turn and walk in a different direction saying come on . Use a lot of turns left and right, walk in figure eights. Stop and have her sit when you stop. Lead with your left foot when you start. Carry some treats with you and when she is in good position and walking nicely tell her good girl and treat while walking. Treats can also be used to help position her if she wants to lag behind or walk a step ahead. Basically just a lot of patience and reputation.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

MT523 said:


> For loose leash or heel, both! But at this point loose leash might be the only option. I will need to figure it out, and figure out if I need a different command.
> 
> I will keep working on walking and stopping but still leaning toward a prong. So say she is pulling, I stop and she sits with no tension on the leash... She's still 6 feet ahead of me so when I take one or two steps she keeps pulling I just stop, and repeat till she doesn't pull at all? Should I try to coax her to get closer to me?


As soon as there is no tension you start moving again, rinse and repeat. The forward movement is the reward.

It doesn't matter if she is six feet ahead of you when teaching loose leash. 
Loose leash means exactly that, no matter the length of the leash, it needs to be slack. The dog can sniff, stop, look around, doesn't even have to look at you, none of that matters as long as the leash is slack. Loose leash walking is so that you _and your dog_ can enjoy the walk, no micromanaging.

If you want her to walk closer to you, shorten the leash but I think this only makes things harder when training loose leash unless she is lunging and bolting. 

I think you are confusing your dog by trying to teach her loose leash and heel as either one and the same or as heel. They are two totally separate things. One is basic manners to always be expected, the other is an obedience command with a start and a finish.


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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

Thank you. Will reply later tonight or tomorrow.


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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

Since posting this, other than practice in the house and backyard I haven't used the heel command. Me being more consistent with stop/go with tension on the leash is working and making walks easier. I know it takes time to really see results with stop/go, but I truly think a prong (even on every other walk) will help a bunch.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

If you are going to use a training tool you need to use it consistently. Not now an then, here and there. That sort of inconsistency will only confuse and slow down training. It you want a quick fix, then yup corrections will get you there faster than not using them. Make sure you know what you are doing and have descent timing.


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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

Bramble said:


> If you are going to use a training tool you need to use it consistently. Not now an then, here and there. That sort of inconsistency will only confuse and slow down training. It you want a quick fix, then yup corrections will get you there faster than not using them. Make sure you know what you are doing and have descent timing.


Sounds good I will consistently use the prong.

One more question. The videos I've been watching on youtube about prongs show each dog in the heel position and this one says your dog should be behind your knees 




So even though I won't be saying a command should I be teaching her to walk right next to me opposed to loose leash walking with a prong?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

MT523 said:


> Sounds good I will consistently use the prong.
> 
> One more question. The videos I've been watching on youtube about prongs show each dog in the heel position and this one says your dog should be behind your knees https://youtu.be/nVvy6fztL2Q
> 
> So even though I won't be saying a command should I be teaching her to walk right next to me opposed to loose leash walking with a prong?


Teach what YOU need. Do you need loose leash walking? Teach it. Do you need a heel? Teach it. Only you can answer as to what you need.


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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Teach what YOU need. Do you need loose leash walking? Teach it. Do you need a heel? Teach it. Only you can answer as to what you need.


Sounds good


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## Breaker's mom (May 27, 2008)

Nope, I do it in silence. As soon as you are uncomfortable with the tension, stop. As soon as your comfortable with it again, walk on. And yes, it can take a lot of time to travel a very short distance...

As I see it you can have two walks, a loose leash walk for normal walking and a command "heel" for a more structured walk with your pup,


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MT523 said:


> Sounds good I will consistently use the prong.
> 
> One more question. The videos I've been watching on youtube about prongs show each dog in the heel position and this one says your dog should be behind your knees
> 
> So even though I won't be saying a command should I be teaching her to walk right next to me opposed to loose leash walking with a prong?


That video is Jeff Gellman with a pit bull. Not a shining example of how to heel or how to work with a German Shepherd. He owns several, so why are all his videos full of pits? I saw a horrible video of a dog fight between two pits in one of his workshops. They were biting and he could not separate them. I lost any respect I had for him after that. Search for Stonnie Dennis on YouTube.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)




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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3DtD3LLMGg


Thank you for the video, I'm watching some of his other videos and awesome... and thanks for info about the video I posted. I now see why the comments are disabled on his videos. However, I the video I posted, it does seem to be a very gentle way of teaching to walk nicely with a prong, no?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

MT523 said:


> Thank you for the video, I'm watching some of his other videos and awesome... and thanks for info about the video I posted. I now see why the comments are disabled on his videos. However, I the video I posted, it does seem to be a very gentle way of teaching to walk nicely with a prong, no?


People looking for gentle, yet effective, methods, choose some version of start and stop.


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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> People looking for gentle, yet effective, methods, choose some version of start and stop.


So my puppy with start and stop method will still pull really hard depending on what she is trying to get to. Sometimes she will just lean or lay down in the same position putting a lot of pressure on her neck. In that situation I am patient and wait till there is no tension, I take 1 step forward and she pulls even harder toward whatever it is that she wants. Again, I will stop and won't move forward till there is no tension. Most of the time I just turn the other way because eventually taking 1, 2, 3 steps (with no tension) she will eventually get to what she was pulling toward in the first place.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

MT523 said:


> So my puppy with start and stop method will still pull really hard depending on what she is trying to get to. Sometimes she will just lean or lay down in the same position putting a lot of pressure on her neck. In that situation I am patient and wait till there is no tension, I take 1 step forward and she pulls even harder toward whatever it is that she wants. Again, I will stop and won't move forward till there is no tension. Most of the time I just turn the other way because eventually taking 1, 2, 3 steps (with no tension) she will eventually get to what she was pulling toward in the first place.


That is fine.

OP, how old is this puppy and do you ever walk her off leash?


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Stonnie is pretty awesome. For fun I am going through his malinois puppy training vids with Pemi. 

Gellman rubs me the wrong way, but I think it is mostly about attitude.


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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> That is fine.
> 
> OP, how old is this puppy and do you ever walk her off leash?


She is almost 8 months old. I do but only once or twice a week, I will take her to a big school yard to play


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MT523 said:


> Thank you for the video, I'm watching some of his other videos and awesome... and thanks for info about the video I posted. I now see why the comments are disabled on his videos. However, I the video I posted, it does seem to be a very gentle way of teaching to walk nicely with a prong, no?


I learned about Stonnie from MAWL. He gets good, permanent results. Gellman does alright on the videos but I've heard his dogs sometimes "forget" it all later on.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Muskeg said:


> Stonnie is pretty awesome. For fun I am going through his malinois puppy training vids with Pemi.
> 
> Gellman rubs me the wrong way, but I think it is mostly about attitude.


I also like his Lab series. He almost makes me think I could train a Mal.


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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> MT523 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for the video, I'm watching some of his other videos and awesome... and thanks for info about the video I posted. I now see why the comments are disabled on his videos. However, I the video I posted, it does seem to be a very gentle way of teaching to walk nicely with a prong, no?
> ...


Interesting. I will check out more of his videos later. I just don't see any on prong collars. I saw one where he talks about them a bit but not working with them.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

MT523 said:


> Interesting. I will check out more of his videos later. I just don't see any on prong collars. I saw one where he talks about them a bit but not working with them.


Prong collars are NOT a rite of passage for German Shepherds and many GSD owners do not use them even with working lines. 

Stonnie avoids using them finding training without them preferable and obviously has excellent results.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sigh ... OP if you want to know how Jeff Gellman works and what he can do for you ... and I have no idea where you are ... see here. 
Dates and Tickets ? RV Dog Trainer dog training seminars

And as to the comments being disabled ting ... pretty sure "our" Bailiff, for one could explain that choice. But if you want to ask "Jeff" questions ... go here.
https://www.facebook.com/Solid-K9-Training-140229622668254/

Aside from "Bailiff" and "Banned" Lou Castle ... "very few "Pros" do "Open Forums" ... I fully understand why ... and the "awful" video Luv Shepherds, saw is a part of the explanation! "Show your Work" would be the "answer" "for those that don't, understand that ... don't worry about it. That said "I'll" take Jeff's advise myself.  

Moving on ... "OK" ... you have a "problem" and you need to know how to solve it??? Well so you know ..."you've" already taken the first step. Take a deep breath and stop doing and start "thinking" ... "out think " your dog! And so you know "if your dog is cutting hard in front" of you ... I have only experienced that "once!" It was a "massive" "Pitty" and that was the only dog that it took "me" more than 4 minutes to get to walk properly on a loose leash, it took ten ...just to get him "move??????" I was never able to solve the darting across the front issues as the owner did not care ... whatever.

That said ... I won't say, that a "Prong Collar" won't/can't solve your problem??? A "Prong Collar" may very well be the "solution" you need??? But I will say, that what you've been doing "should have worked??" If it's not ... most likely it's "something" in your interpretation of what your doing that is "issue???"

We all have our "preference" of "tools!" And the fact of the matter is that ... pretty much most, "Pros" (in America) teach there "clients" to train there dogs using a "Prong Collar!" Facts are Facts ... that does not mean it's the only choice but it is the most popular choice with "trainers," that can actually help people with difficult dogs!"

That said ... it's not what I use, I use a "SLL" myself ... works fine for "me!" But ... there again ... as I've come to understand ... proper use of a "SLL" is more of a "Art" than a "Science??" 

I "tried to explain it" in my "SLL" thread but out of "thousands of views." I have only heard from maybe "5" people that say ... "Hey this SLL ... works just fine!" Aww well maybe there are more and they just never bother to say. 

That said ... what you are using a "Flat Leash" and "Regular Collar" should work?? If it's not "maybe it's" something your doing??? I did not start with a SLL myself ... I started just like you! I was handed a "SLL" at a rescue event and they said "Use This." I was like sure whatever, it did work for crap for them! But for me .... it was pretty much magic! The rest of the story ... I handed him over at the end of the day ... and sure enough "off he went dragging his handler behind him!":crazy:

Long way of saying it's not about the tool it's about the user! You don't want to go down the path of searching for a "Magic Tool" to fix your dog! Training a dog "which should be done in a distraction free environment first" is about "understanding principles and putting in the work." 

So yes my thread started as "SLL" specific but "blow back, so I changed it up to "Principles" of properly walking a dog! And I ended up helping members "one on one." Should have kept that stuff but whatever. If you do indeed decide to pursue the "SLL" thing ... I'll be happy to help. 

And yeah ... if your dog "continues" to do the "dart across your front thing??" There is a way to stop that crap ... but most likely your not gonna like my suggestion! 

But ... you know ... don't know ... maybe it won't be needed after you have a look here. :

Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

Welcome aboard and ask questions.


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## MT523 (Jun 16, 2016)

Hello everyone. I've been using a herm sprenger prong for a week and it has basically been night and day. She walks nice on a loose leash, doesn't do the dart/lunge thing at rabbits or geese, hasn't dragged toward or barked walking past other dogs (part of that is them not barking at her). I feel comfortable walking her past kids on bikes/skateboards. Now I can take her for longer walks without it being a struggle. Yesterday, I walked her outside of a local community college and it was very simple to have her calmly sit and watch the students walk past us, honestly I don't think she even pulled toward the first person. Overall I'm very happy.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Sigh ... OP if you want to know how Jeff Gellman works and what he can do for you ... and I have no idea where you are ... see here.
> Dates and Tickets ? RV Dog Trainer dog training seminars
> 
> And as to the comments being disabled ting ... pretty sure "our" Bailiff, for one could explain that choice. But if you want to ask "Jeff" questions ... go here.
> ...


I lost a lot of respect for JG. He puts dogs in unsafe situations. I wouldn't trust him.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

MT523 said:


> Hello everyone. I've been using a herm sprenger prong for a week and it has basically been night and day. She walks nice on a loose leash, doesn't do the dart/lunge thing at rabbits or geese, hasn't dragged toward or barked walking past other dogs (part of that is them not barking at her). I feel comfortable walking her past kids on bikes/skateboards. Now I can take her for longer walks without it being a struggle. Yesterday, I walked her outside of a local community college and it was very simple to have her calmly sit and watch the students walk past us, honestly I don't think she even pulled toward the first person. Overall I'm very happy.


Glad it's helping you :thumbup: It's helped me train and manage my pup on leash too.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> i lost a lot of respect for jg. He puts dogs in unsafe situations. I wouldn't trust him.


this.


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## TiaMarie (Aug 7, 2016)

I felt pretty hopeless, my dog was just convinced he was the one who was supposed to walk me. I have bought every single product on the market that was meant to promote "no-pulling" he would find a way to pull. I finally switched to the prong and I hired a trainer who specialized in working shepherds and I can walk him now. I felt really terrible at first but I am small and he is 80 lbs. I can't risk injury to myself or him if he gets loose from pulling. Good luck, it's a hard call but I'm glad we did it. I made sure I had someone train me the correct way to use it though.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

cloudpump said:


> I lost a lot of respect for JG. He puts dogs in unsafe situations. I wouldn't trust him.


I learned about Gellman from this forum and thought, hey, this guy gets it. Then I started looking into him his background and his business practices, watched a few of his Internet information sessions, and changed my mind. There are so many better online trainers, and even better offline.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

TiaMarie said:


> I felt pretty hopeless, my dog was just convinced he was the one who was supposed to walk me. I have bought every single product on the market that was meant to promote "no-pulling" he would find a way to pull. I finally switched to the prong and I hired a trainer who specialized in working shepherds and I can walk him now. I felt really terrible at first but I am small and he is 80 lbs. I can't risk injury to myself or him if he gets loose from pulling. Good luck, it's a hard call but I'm glad we did it. I made sure I had someone train me the correct way to use it though.


I use them sometimes but only for me, my dogs don't need them.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> I learned about Gellman from this forum and thought, hey, this guy gets it. Then I started looking into him his background and his business practices, watched a few of his Internet information sessions, and changed my mind. There are so many better online trainers, and even better offline.


Can't see the forest for trees! Jeff "shows his works!

Aside from him and most likely one other that I am aware of??? "NO ONE" shows there work with dogs with serious freaking issues from day one! 

So yeah if you see crap going down ... that is why! If there are others that do likewise as I am want to say ... "Show Me!"


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

I personally don't use prongs but that's because I have a few other methods I use for nicewalking. One I really like is using this type of lead.

http://www.yourdogsneeds.co.uk/images/halti-training-lead-long_pop.jpg (Random pic from online)

Two of my dogs were able to start training with it right away while the other one is not comfortable with it at all so she gets to wear it randomly until she gets used to it because it does no good to work with her on it until she doesn't stress out. (she's 3 and a green dog basically still working to get her trust, she expects to get hit)


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> But I know ... she also trains dogs to walk "off leash" without the use of any "tools" as I understand??
> 
> So yeah ... I say "start a thread!" And explain how she does what she does?? It's not my "job" to ask her questions and they get buried in some obscure thread?? That "I" have to keep track of and then share with others???
> 
> I know she can do that ... no one else does ..."AFAIK???" Got nothing to do with the "Pit Issue."


Actually... I've taught almost all of my dogs too walk off leash without tools. From pups to adult rescues. Mako hardly ever uses a leash. Generally speaking he only has it on is when we are in an area where they crack down on leash laws.

We once got busted and the cop was about to write me up, until I took the shoe laces out of my sneakers! LOL

It's actually pretty easy. It is all about using the dog's natural pack instincts and building off of that. Dogs naturally play follow the leader. It's especially easy to imprint puppies with, but given a big field and some patience and you can do the same with adults.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

voodoolamb said:


> Actually... I've taught almost all of my dogs too walk off leash without tools. From pups to adult rescues. Mako hardly ever uses a leash. Generally speaking he only has it on is when we are in an area where they crack down on leash laws.
> 
> We once got busted and the cop was about to write me up, until I took the shoe laces out of my sneakers! LOL
> 
> *It's actually pretty easy. It is all about using the dog's natural pack instincts and building off of that. *Dogs naturally play follow the leader. It's especially easy to imprint puppies with, but given a big field and some patience and you can do the same with adults.


Oh I don't disagree that can be done ... but how???

By and large on these this board most of the time it's about "People 
that know how to train a dog "arguing amongst themselves about "how your way sucks and my way is better!" 

I don't doubt that "you" can do what "you" do??? But if I don't know 
crap??? How does that help me???


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Oh I don't disagree that can be done ... but how???
> 
> By and large on these this board most of the time it's about "People
> that know how to train a dog "arguing amongst themselves about "how your way sucks and my way is better!"
> ...


How about starting a thread and asking about it then?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> If you actually read MY comments, I did offer advice to the OP on how to correct the pulling issue. If they chose not to do as I suggested, that is their prerogative.
> 
> Now if you care to discuss the methods I suggested on this thread without turning it into a Pit Bull thread or slinging personal attacks or insults, I have no problem with that. Feel free to ask questions about the methods I have posted.


I'm gonna take this as a "NO???"

I have "some understanding" of what you do?? I've tried it and it was a "fail" with "Rocky" and I don't see how what you do can possibly work with a dog in a "Rescue Situation???"

The tool I prefer to use is a "SLL" and that is the only tool most "Rescues" will let you use becasue "they don't have a freaking clue, how to use one "properly" it's just a leash???  

I've "explained" what I do and some can use it and some can't?? I don't care. I'm simply putting out a call to others to ... "Start a Thread" and explain what they do for others ... there tool of choice! 

So yeah, I suppose once again "I'm" the bad guy?? For trying to "force" those that know how, ... to "explain" for others what they do ... geez you know ... I'm such a "freaking tool!"


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I'm gonna take this as a "NO???"
> 
> I have "some understanding" of what you do?? I've tried it and it was a "fail" with "Rocky" and I don't see how what you do can possibly work with a dog in a "Rescue Situation???"
> 
> ...


I don't know what to tell you except that I have already posted some of the things you ask in other threads and I refuse to post them over and over and over and over again in every single thread on this forum, nor will I write a novella on how and what I teach my dogs. How boring and monotonous would that be? Maybe if you read more and posted less you would gain a working knowledge of other peoples' methods. 

We have some top notch, accomplished trainers and breeders skilled in many venues on this forum and other very experienced owners with their own successful methods too. It would be pretty silly of me to feign that my methods are the only methods or that because something works on one or two dogs that it will work on all dogs, no? 

I am not a one trick pony. I teach what I need and for each dog the method used can be different dependent on breed first and then the individual dog in front of me. I would not train a Beagle the same as a high drive WL GSD. One size does not fit all. A dog is not just another dog, or we wouldn't have breeds.

And please don't apply my methods to Pit Bulls and bully breeds, I have no experience in training these types of dogs. My methods would most likely get somebody else's pet(s) killed if used on these types of dogs. Such things as having to "crush drives" as mentioned by skilled people with experience with Pit Bulls such as VoodooLamb and Mycobraracr suggest, is just something not in my tool box.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*I removed a bunch of off topic pitbull comments. I removed the entire comment so if there was anything constructive in the comment, well, too bad. We are all really tired of the back and forth bickering about pitbulls. Next time people are either going on suspension or will be banned permanently (depending on their previous history). 

ADMIN*


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

How much time do you spend training a recall during the day with your puppy? If he didn't understand that you're the boundary to stay by and give up impulses at distractions then he will not understand expectations on a walk. I would focus more on recalls than a walk.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

voodoolamb said:


> How about starting a thread and asking about it then?


Well yeah I suppose that work also but I get writer's block over titles. Kinda lame ... but true.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I don't know what to tell you except that I have already posted some of the things you ask in other threads and I refuse to post them over and over and over and over again in every single thread on this forum, nor will I write a novella on how and what I teach my dogs. How boring and monotonous would that be? Maybe if you read more and posted less you would gain a working knowledge of other peoples' methods. .


Sorry ... my bad, what I was trying to say was that ... I do understand you do something different than myself and I "meant that I would like to better understand it."

And yes I have seen your post but they are scattered in different threads and I did not keep track of them. Sometimes months or years go by before I get really curious on a subject. I like to better under "things" and I just wanted to better know what you do. And in my defense ... I've never said you were a one trick pony?? If that was somehow implied ... I apologize (that was not my intent) again ... my bad.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I never meant to imply that you called me a one trick pony. It was just a phrase I used to get a point across. No apology necessary.

I am not sure what I can do about my posts being scattered and your request to condense them. Perhaps you can just start keeping tabs on my future posts, I am sure I will repeat things as I teach what I need, and I really don't need a lot, just absolutes.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I never meant to imply that you called me a one trick pony. It was just a phrase I used to get a point across. No apology necessary.


 LOL OK then ... point was made! 




MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am not sure what I can do about my posts being scattered and your request to condense them. Perhaps you can just start keeping tabs on my future posts, I am sure I will repeat things as I teach what I need, and I really don't need a lot, just absolutes.


Naw, I don't expect you to dig them up ... it was just something I could have done, stuff gets scattered, you know and I am a digital pack rat.


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