# Dropped my dog off at a board and train and feeling sad.



## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I made the decision to send my dog to Ivan Balabanov’s training center. As some of you may know, he developed dog aggression after being attacked a couple of times by off leash dogs. It’s been a nightmare walking him around other dogs.

I took him to off leash dog park (not inside!) to desensitize him. Started at a non-reactionary distance and gradually got closer over months. That didn’t really solve the issue. I couldn’t control him on a prong and had to get a dominant dog collar. But there are so many loose dogs in Florida that it kept setting me back.

I took him to a police canine trainer and worked with exposure. But once a week classes weren’t enough.

He also has an issue with strangers man-handling him. In taking him to his last vet appointment, he had to be sedated just to get shots and an exam.

Off leash and around familiar people, he’s fantastic. Took him to a pool party around a lot of people and he was excellent. But if he feels cornered by a stranger, it’s on.

I basically need him to know that even if he doesn’t like something, he can’t just lash out.

Around me and family, there isn’t an aggressive bone in his body. I can touch him anywhere, take food/bones away from him, bathe and groom him with no issues. 

He’s house-trained, crate-trained, not a marker, doesn’t nuisance bark, doesn’t chew/destroy things, SUPER affectionate, wants to be with me more than anything, craves engagement, loves to play, super focused. He’s everything I wanted. I just have a few kinks I need ironed out and want him to have the best I can afford to have the best quality of life. I hope I’m doing the right thing.

He cried when I left him, and I’m just feeling sad and missing him. That’s all.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

It's heartbreaking to leave your crying dog,even if it's in his best interest.He's in good hands.


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

Well, even if it's sad, it's for the best if you can't fix his problem yourself. I'm sure that you're doing the right thing. He's getting wonderful treatment and good training. He'll be a saint (hopefully) when you get him back. How long is he being boarded there?


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

I thought you had done some training at Ivan's facility before? 

I think missing your dog is pretty natural. At least you have some very good training available to you.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ivan will help him. And you.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

In good hands, I think. Of course you miss him, but that's not your average board and train, wow! In good hands. Looking forward to your updates.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Bramble said:


> I thought you had done some training at Ivan's facility before?
> 
> I think missing your dog is pretty natural. At least you have some very good training available to you.


I took him for an evaluation about a year ago. It was an Instant Solutions session. That’s when they told me he wasn’t afraid of people, and was dog aggression. I thought I could resolve the issues myself, but it didn’t quite go as planned. I’m now bringing in the big guns...lol.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Kathrynil said:


> Well, even if it's sad, it's for the best if you can't fix his problem yourself. I'm sure that you're doing the right thing. He's getting wonderful treatment and good training. He'll be a saint (hopefully) when you get him back. How long is he being boarded there?


Thank you. He’ll be there for 3 weeks. They told me I won’t even recognize him when I get him back. lol

They do several videos updates to show me his progress. So I’m sure that will help. ?


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

That's great. It's always nice to get updates and pics. Three weeks is a long time! I'm sure they are going to get a ton done with him! You probably won't recognize him at all!


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

It probably doesn't feel like it, but 3 weeks will be over in the blink of an eye. It's really great that you have high quality training available - I hope time flies.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Thanks everyone. It’s just weird to not have my constant shadow around. I actually peed by myself for the first time in forever. lol


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## Dieter and Frieda (Dec 15, 2019)

I have the same issues with my 4 year old male GSD. He was attacked by an off leash dog when he was about 9mo. We were at agility training and I usually kept a distance from everyone trying to train him to keep calm. We would gradually get closer a bit at a time to the group. We were making progress- Then a dalmation who was off leash and had a history of attacking other dogs(and should have been on a leash-but owner was in denial) charged at us barking. I had my dog by the leash but he lunged so hard it broke his collar and we had a full dog fight. I was able to pull my dog off and get him to the car for a new collar. I wanted to get both dogs on a leash and work with them side by side at a distance- but the other owner left in a huff acting like it was my dogs fault! anyway ever since then my dog has been fearful. He gets along fine with my second dog and a friends dogs, but hates my daughter dog. He is fine around people once he is knows them. We usually have both our dogs behind a gate in the kitchen, but they can still see into the family room- after a few visits they get used to the person we are trying to get him aquainted with. But in March I am taking him to a two week board and train- K9 off leash is the company the trainer is associated with. I am nervous and hope the training helps him to be calmer and less reactive and fearful. I would love to see someone post a success story for encouragement! thank you for letting me vent and any advice is welcome!


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## Petra's Dad (Jan 6, 2020)

Do these trainers normally use shock collars often?


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I feel your pain, Dieter and Freida!

I got a call from the trainer the first week Dexter was there. They told me they needed to wear a bitesuit to go into the kennel to leash him up. I knew they would. They were strangers cornering him in a tight space. He had to be sedated at the vet so I knew what they were in for. They told me they want to keep him for five weeks instead of three due to these issues.

The good news is that she sent me a picture a few days later and then a video a day after that showing how happy he is now and they no longer need the bitesuit. He looks like he’s having a blast now. They’ve earned his trust. Now they are going to work on him being neutral to strangers who haven’t earned his trust. I’m very hopeful!

Here he is in the picture they sent me looking relaxed and happy:


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

That's great!He does look relaxed in that picture.Hope you can relax a little too now


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

About the bitesuit/kennel...my dog Rumo was an unpleasant guest in the beginning, at boarding. 
They reported that he growled at them and refused to leave his kennel.
I told them to offer some cheese, call him out, ask him to Sit, and clip on the leash. They told me it worked great, and that's how they do it now! 

Anyway this is not to undermine your trainer at all, I know they are good, and famous! 

But anyway that's how I handled a similar issue with my dog.

Your dog looks really happy and settled in the photo!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

GSDchoice said:


> About the bitesuit/kennel...my dog Rumo was an unpleasant guest in the beginning, at boarding.
> They reported that he growled at them and refused to leave his kennel.
> I told them to offer some cheese, call him out, ask him to Sit, and clip on the leash. They told me it worked great, and that's how they do it now!
> 
> ...


While the kennel makes it worse because he’s cornered, he’s also like this when strangers try to manhandle him in the open. So he would have growled and snapped while they were putting a collar on him in or out of the kennel. A stranger is reaching for his neck. That’s a no go with him. lol

He’s fine with people he knows. Strangers? Not so much.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

IllinoisNative said:


> I feel your pain, Dieter and Freida!
> 
> I got a call from the trainer the first week Dexter was there. They told me they needed to wear a bitesuit to go into the kennel to leash him up. I knew they would. They were strangers cornering him in a tight space. He had to be sedated at the vet so I knew what they were in for. They told me they want to keep him for five weeks instead of three due to these issues.
> 
> ...


Do you know if any of his siblings display the same behavior toward strangers? What has his breeder had to say about his aggression? Is it something they expected from their lines?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Bramble said:


> Do you know if any of his siblings display the same behavior toward strangers? What has his breeder had to say about his aggression? Is it something they expected from their lines?


I know these lines well. No, there is no human aggression in the lines.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

As far as I know, there is no aggression. He’s always been watchful even as a pup. Very focused and contemplative. Never one to run over to strangers, but also never shied away. He would accept petting and attention from strangers. In fact, his vet gave him a gold star early on for being so good and agreeable. They marked his chart that he was great!

I’m someone who would take him to the vet just because. They’d weigh him and give him treats so he didn’t associate with just shots or pain. 

He’s been to obedience and agility classes, stores, outdoor restaurants, other people’s houses. I had dog sitters come over during the day as a puppy. I took him everywhere with me. As far as I know, he’s never had a bad experience with a human. And with people he knows, he’s fantastic. The issue I have is with strangers in his space, and I can’t figure it out.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Maybe the answer is he's a German Shepherd? I don't expect my dogs to like strangers in their space. The one will definitely bite and the other may bite.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

LOL! Point taken, Jax. ?

I’m not expecting him to be everyone’s friend. I just need him to be neutral around strangers, and I haven’t been so good at teaching that.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Neutral around strangers and not liking strangers in his space is something different. It might seem like it's the same thing to us but it's not to them. 

I expect mine to walk thru crowds without tasting anyone or even thinking about it. That's neutral to strangers.

But if someone comes right at them and gets in their space, I don't expect them to not react especially in a place like a vet's office where most animals react poorly or in a strange place alone where a stranger comes in.


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## Petra's Dad (Jan 6, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> Maybe the answer is he's a German Shepherd? I don't expect my dogs to like strangers in their space. The one will definitely bite and the other may bite.



Would have to agree with Jax on this one.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I guess it’s a bit of both. I don’t want him to try to eat the vet for something as simple as shots. I felt horrible that they had to sedate him even with a muzzle.

Walking through crowds, he’s mostly fine until they get too close. I want him to know he doesn’t have to react. I want him to not care. That’s what I’m hoping for, anyway.
Thanks for explaining the difference.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

IllinoisNative said:


> As far as I know, there is no aggression. He’s always been watchful even as a pup. Very focused and contemplative. Never one to run over to strangers, but also never shied away. He would accept petting and attention from strangers. In fact, his vet gave him a gold star early on for being so good and agreeable. They marked his chart that he was great!
> 
> I’m someone who would take him to the vet just because. They’d weigh him and give him treats so he didn’t associate with just shots or pain.
> 
> He’s been to obedience and agility classes, stores, outdoor restaurants, other people’s houses. I had dog sitters come over during the day as a puppy. I took him everywhere with me. As far as I know, he’s never had a bad experience with a human. And with people he knows, he’s fantastic. The issue I have is with strangers in his space, and I can’t figure it out.


I know your boy and my first GSD were related, I think via my dog's sire Arko vom Eichenluft. Finn was also quite leery of strangers. He also never had a bad interaction with anyone and was social as a puppy. He would get quite tense and would stare down anyone who approached. He only every really enjoyed interacting with family members. If he knew someone they might get in a couple pets and he would move away, no interest in interacting. 

Hopefully the trainers can help you both through this


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I actually put the muzzle on him at the vet, without anyone asking me to.
I would feel much worse if my dog bit someone, especially a vet, who performs surgery, so those hands are what makes him or her a living.
A muzzle won’t hurt a dog, but those teeth could cause a lot of damage, should the dog bite out of fear or pain.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Bramble said:


> I know your boy and my first GSD were related, I think via my dog's sire Arko vom Eichenluft. Finn was also quite leery of strangers. He also never had a bad interaction with anyone and was social as a puppy. He would get quite tense and would stare down anyone who approached. He only every really enjoyed interacting with family members. If he knew someone they might get in a couple pets and he would move away, no interest in interacting.
> 
> Hopefully the trainers can help you both through this


That’s my boy. Most of my family and friends complain that he only cares about me...lol. His eyes never leave me. When I was in agility with him, everyone couldn’t get over how he tuned out other dogs and people and would only focus on me even as a puppy and off leash. No aggression, just no interest in anyone else.

When I take him to pool parties or barbecues (I’m in Florida, it’s year round...lol), he’s at my side. He’ll run up to a new person, sniff them, and then come back to me. He doesn’t avoid. He’ll take food from everyone, and then lean against them for a pet or two....but then return to me. I don’t sense any fear from him when he’s “mingling.” He doesn’t like it when someone he’s used to leaves the room. He likes his group.

I think that’s why I have a hard time figuring out how to handle this issue in public with people he doesn’t know. 

What I like about this board and train, is that they get a handle on the dog and then teach me how to proceed going forward. Now that they have his trust, he’s silly and affectionate with them. Letting them touch his backside and everything. They see the side of him that I get to see.

I want everyone to know that I simply adore this dog. He’s fantastic in every other way. He’s affectionate, goofy, playful, fun, and easy to live with. But I want to be able to take him out and about with me and feel like he’s not going to lash out at a stranger that gets too close.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> I actually put the muzzle on him at the vet, without anyone asking me to.
> I would feel much worse if my dog bit someone, especially a vet, who performs surgery, so those hands are what makes him or her a living.
> A muzzle won’t hurt a dog, but those teeth could cause a lot of damage, should the dog bite out of fear or pain.


l tell the vet I need to muzzle him when I make the appointment. I put the muzzle on in the exam room. He’s actually fine in the exam room with the vet and technicians without a muzzle. It’s when they go and grab him for shots, blood draws, etc, that he flips out. They gave him some medicine to calm him down, but it didn’t make a dent. They had to give him a shot that knocked him out in order to touch him. Even with the muzzle, they didn’t feel safe.

I choose the last appointment of the day to avoid any issues/stress. I exercise him with the flirt poke before we go. I keep everything airy and light. I bring treats and treat him for good, calm behavior. I walk him around outside the vets office to let him smell everything and relax. I weigh him with no issues. He allows the techs to pet him. But once they reach for him, chaos.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Have you tried leaving? I have to do this with it Hans. I just hand the leash to the tech and walk out of the room. When I leave, so does his power.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> Have you tried leaving? I have to do this with it Hans. I just hand the leash to the tech and walk out of the room. When I leave, so does his power.


Yes. I thought he’d be better if I left. They called me on the phone in the waiting room 5 minutes later asking to come and muzzle him because they couldn’t get near him. That’s when I realized he needed a muzzle. I walked in the room, muzzled him, and left. They did his shots and said he was better with the muzzle. That was last year.

I tried that this year and he was so much worse! It’s the first time I’ve had to have a dog sedated for routine care. ?


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Yea I have been there...

After our first gruesome visit where he had ears back, snarling, baring teeth, and cornering the poor vet and her tech...
the vet sent us home with trazodone and told me to give him two pills the morning of the visit, and two pills about 2 hours before visits.

Nobody is able to muzzle him but me. He will growl, snap and lunge at the vet techs and the vet. He will allow me to put on his muzzle, and these days I slip it on right after the tech comes in. (He will put his face in when I say "Nose!") 

In his case, the muzzle made all of the humans calmer, and he seemed to get calmer too because he sensed that. I have also seen that the vet tech stands in a certain way so that her body keeps him from lunging/whipping his head around at the vet during the exam. 

He's getting better as a result of "happy visits" and also just from knowing the place & people better. I now no longer bother with the trazodone - but I think he will always have the muzzle as a precaution. ( I want to upvote the idea of happy visits...just dropping by when you are in the area, giving your dog a few treats, get on and off the scale, and if the vet has time, going into exam room to say Hi. Even just a couple of them helped my dog. Because every other visit involved shots/blood draws, I was like, "No wonder he hates this.")


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Bramble said:


> I know your boy and my first GSD were related, I think via my dog's sire Arko vom Eichenluft. Finn was also quite leery of strangers. He also never had a bad interaction with anyone and was social as a puppy. He would get quite tense and would stare down anyone who approached. He only every really enjoyed interacting with family members. If he knew someone they might get in a couple pets and he would move away, no interest in interacting.
> 
> Hopefully the trainers can help you both through this


OT - Your Finn is a litter mate to Sean's current competition dog? She's super nice. You talk of him in the past tense. Can I ask what happened to him?


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

GSDchoice said:


> Yea I have been there...
> 
> After our first gruesome visit where he had ears back, snarling, baring teeth, and cornering the poor vet and her tech...
> the vet sent us home with trazodone and told me to give him two pills the morning of the visit, and two pills about 2 hours before visits.
> ...


Yep, I got sent home with pills too. Those were the pills that did nothing for him. lol. He fought through the effects. ?


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

IllinoisNative said:


> Yep, I got sent home with pills too. Those were the pills that did nothing for him. lol. He fought through the effects. ?


Don't feel too bad about that. Jack has to be muzzled in the exam room AND sedated with doggy Xanax before he even leaves the house. It's just how he's always been. Ever since his first vet visit he's hated the place, no matter how much desensitizing we've given him.

Some dogs, even with good bloodlines, end up on the anxious side of the gene pool. Bad dice rolls.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think there is a difference between "anxious" and "civil". I don't consider dogs of our breed that react to strangers in their space anxious when they are fine in every other circumstance. We breed working lines to maintain aggression and then when we do they are immediately labeled as fearful. That mindset completely disregards the traits of the breed.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

IllinoisNative said:


> That’s my boy. Most of my family and friends complain that he only cares about me...lol. His eyes never leave me. When I was in agility with him, everyone couldn’t get over how he tuned out other dogs and people and would only focus on me even as a puppy and off leash. No aggression, just no interest in anyone else.
> 
> When I take him to pool parties or barbecues (I’m in Florida, it’s year round...lol), he’s at my side. He’ll run up to a new person, sniff them, and then come back to me. He doesn’t avoid. He’ll take food from everyone, and then lean against them for a pet or two....but then return to me. I don’t sense any fear from him when he’s “mingling.” He doesn’t like it when someone he’s used to leaves the room. He likes his group.
> 
> ...


Sounds like he had a very similar temperament to Finn. Even as a puppy he was very focused on me and would ignore other people and dogs even if they passed closed by. Off leash he would check people out, but had no desire to be "friends" though if he had a ball he'd let people throw it, lol.


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## Petra's Dad (Jan 6, 2020)

Bramble said:


> Sounds like he had a very similar temperament to Finn. Even as a puppy he was very focused on me and would ignore other people and dogs even if they passed closed by. Off leash he would check people out, but had no desire to be "friends" though if he had a ball he'd let people throw it, lol.


I wish I could say the same about our girl, but she was obsessed with every other dog in sight. She would pull me across the room to be able to be with another dog.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> OT - Your Finn is a litter mate to Sean's current competition dog? She's super nice. You talk of him in the past tense. Can I ask what happened to him?


I am not sure, his sire was Arko vom Eichenluft and his dam was Tumi von der Schiffslache . He was put down Nov 2017 after suffering from acute kidney failure, he was almost 2.5 y/o.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

Petra's Dad said:


> I wish I could say the same about our girl, but she was obsessed with every other dog in sight. She would pull me across the room to be able to be with another dog.


Finn was always totally neutral toward other dogs, even if they were barking at him he did not care.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

IllinoisNative said:


> Yes. I thought he’d be better if I left. They called me on the phone in the waiting room 5 minutes later asking to come and muzzle him because they couldn’t get near him. That’s when I realized he needed a muzzle. I walked in the room, muzzled him, and left. They did his shots and said he was better with the muzzle. That was last year.
> 
> I tried that this year and he was so much worse! It’s the first time I’ve had to have a dog sedated for routine care. ?


I always thought that Bud had a pretty correct temperament for a GSD. He would have lost his marbles if I had abandoned him in a room full of strangers that were trying to maul him! Shadow is a fearful, anxious dog. I have debated that I may actually feed that so wanted to try the leave her thing. It worked! Without me to add to the anxiety she becomes a suck. Completely submissive and desperate for human contact. Sabi would have just opened the door and left!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Bramble said:


> I am not sure, his sire was Arko vom Eichenluft and his dam was Tumi von der Schiffslache . He was put down Nov 2017 after suffering from acute kidney failure, he was almost 2.5 y/o.


I am so sorry.  Yes, that's a littermate to Sean's. She is a super dog.


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## CAROLINM (Mar 30, 2018)

My dog has been reactive to stranger-people and dogs (as an 'on and off' situation) for a really long time, sometimes feels like it has been like this for decades. Yet he is barely reaching 2 years old. I am dropping him off later today or tomorrow for his board and train, I am very nervous because unlike you, I can not be sure this trainer will actually help us fully manage our issue (3rd trainer we try, first B&T). But at least he is a decent and focused man, so, I am just praying for the best, and keep praying for it. But I am also, as mentioned in the first post really sad, I guess that I have some separation anxiety myself, I can't deal with the fact that he will not be in the house for 3-4 weeks.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I had a gsd who was great with vaccines but getting his nail trims and being manhandled by three men just made him fight stronger and just made him sore and the tranquilizers seemed not to work until after the visit when his adrenaline simmered down. Being manhandled by strangers at a strange place would put me over the edge myself so I could understand it. I never liked the dentist when I was a kid lol! Some keep it together and some don’t and put up a fight -it’s where muzzles are great. He was great though with strangers and all else otherwise. It is important to find a veterinarian who is comfortable with the breed. Many vets are not comfortable with gsds they do not make the greatest patients. Makes a big difference when a vet is comfortable and knows the breed and less is more. Maybe have a vet to come to the house it may make him more relaxed as it is not so clinical. If you do nail trims then trim his nails at home Instead of having the vet do it.
I learned that this helps a lot where man handling is not needed which is common procedure at a vets office doing nails. Not sure if there is a gsd who would be comfortable at a veterinarians office getting procedures done. It is good the trainer will teach you to mange your boys reactions to strangers and how to handle situations to give your dog instructions and will keep his brain working and make him less defensive. Not sure though how well that will transfer well to a vets office being manhandled.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> I always thought that Bud had a pretty correct temperament for a GSD. He would have lost his marbles if I had abandoned him in a room full of strangers that were trying to maul him! Shadow is a fearful, anxious dog. I have debated that I may actually feed that so wanted to try the leave her thing. It worked! Without me to add to the anxiety she becomes a suck. Completely submissive and desperate for human contact. Sabi would have just opened the door and left!


Your Shadow example is how I felt about Dexter. I thought maybe my anxiety was making his behavior worse. Turns out it wasn’t. Me leaving didn’t really improve the situation.Whether I was there or not, he did not want a stranger messing with him. The trainer confirmed that when she called me about having to wear a bitesuit to leash him up. I wasn’t even in the same town! lol


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

I'm eager to hear about how this goes. Ivan is a top trainer, I'm betting the outcome is a good one.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

CAROLINM said:


> My dog has been reactive to stranger-people and dogs (as an 'on and off' situation) for a really long time, sometimes feels like it has been like this for decades. Yet he is barely reaching 2 years old. I am dropping him off later today or tomorrow for his board and train, I am very nervous because unlike you, I can not be sure this trainer will actually help us fully manage our issue (3rd trainer we try, first B&T). But at least he is a decent and focused man, so, I am just praying for the best, and keep praying for it. But I am also, as mentioned in the first post really sad, I guess that I have some separation anxiety myself, I can't deal with the fact that he will not be in the house for 3-4 weeks.


I wish you luck. And I understand your anxiety. I have the peace of mind that I’m taking my dog to one of the best so that decreased my anxiety of leaving him there. I still miss him like crazy! And it’s funny how safe a German Shepherd makes you feel. I didn’t fully realize that until he was gone. Now I second guess whether I’ve locked the door...lol.

I just got a second video of him yesterday. He looks so happy and relaxed. Not stressed at all like he was in the beginning. He’ll be there for 5 weeks so I’m hopeful of his progress.

I honestly can’t wait to pick him up and start my training. That’s where the work begins for me. ?

I look forward to hearing your updates on your dog!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Jenny720 said:


> I had a gsd who was great with vaccines but getting his nail trims and being manhandled by three men just made him fight stronger and just made him sore and the tranquilizers seemed not to work until after the visit when his adrenaline simmered down. Being manhandled by strangers at a strange place would put me over the edge myself so I could understand it. I never liked the dentist when I was a kid lol! Some keep it together and some don’t and put up a fight -it’s where muzzles are great. He was great though with strangers and all else otherwise. It is important to find a veterinarian who is comfortable with the breed. Many vets are not comfortable with gsds they do not make the greatest patients. Makes a big difference when a vet is comfortable and knows the breed and less is more. Maybe have a vet to come to the house it may make him more relaxed as it is not so clinical. If you do nail trims then trim his nails at home Instead of having the vet do it.
> I learned that this helps a lot where man handling is not needed which is common procedure at a vets office doing nails. Not sure if there is a gsd who would be comfortable at a veterinarians office getting procedures done. It is good the trainer will teach you to mange your boys reactions to strangers and how to handle situations to give your dog instructions and will keep his brain working and make him less defensive. Not sure though how well that will transfer well to a vets office being manhandled.


Thanks for the advice. I found the same thing. My vet isn’t entirely comfortable with him. I can tell by his reactions. But the vet techs are AWESOME! However, nobody was comfortable with giving him shots even in a muzzle. He thrashed his body all over. It was not good.

I actually do his nails myself because I can touch him anywhere. He doesn’t have an aggressive bone in his body towards me. He’s the only dog I’ve had that LOVES having his paws touched.

I’m not sure how he’d react to a stranger in his home manhandling him because I did think about having a vet come to the house. I’m going to see how training goes with Dexter and me!

I supposeI could become a vet tech and take his blood myself. I did take blood on people when I worked at a doctors office...lol.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I received a video of Dexter this morning trying to play with the dog in the next kennel. I knew he wasn’t aggressive. It was pent up frustration/excitement/lack of confidence causing his reactivity.

I’m so excited!


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

@IllinoisNative That sounds so positive. One thing that continually amazes me is how much dogs can change with the right training. Awesome!


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

IllinoisNative said:


> I received a video of Dexter this morning trying to play with the dog in the next kennel. I knew he wasn’t aggressive. It was pent up frustration/excitement/lack of confidence causing his reactivity.
> 
> I’m so excited!


That's great! I'm so happy to hear it's better!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Just checking in. I continue getting video updates regarding Dexter’s progress. They have Dexter out at parks with their dogs and strange dogs. She said he initially acted up on leash with strange dogs last week but they got him to a good place. Last week’s video was him walking with another dog and then him in a place command while other dogs walked by. He did really well. 

I just got a new video today of him interacting with their personal Belgium Malinois dogs. They said he went from wanting to attack them a few days ago to just chilling with them. I’m so thrilled. ??


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Excellent!


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

Thanks for keeping us up to date. I love reading stuff like this. Excellent to hear about good progress. Yay!


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

Any further update on your board and train?


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Thank for asking!

I’ve gotten several video updates of him being around their dogs. They walked him around the dog park (on the outside) with no reaction. They said they couldn’t do that in the beginning. I pick him up tomorrow and go through my first training session with them. I’m so excited!!!! I’ve missed him so much that I could hardly stand it.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

That is exciting!Tell us how your reunion goes when time permits


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Please update us when you pick him up. I'd love to hear how well the training sticks as you move forward.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Sorry for the long delay in responding. I has a death in the family so that took up a bit of time.

As to the results of the board and train, I’m ELATED! When I picked him up, I stayed for about 2 hours of training. To get him over his dog reactivity, they had to use the e-collar. They said he responded the best with that. Part of the training was teaching me how to use it effectively.

I was working with Natalia (Ivan’s wife) on the place command and Ivan was across the field helping another family and their Belgium Malinois. The Belgian Malinois broke free and decided to visit our field where Dexter was training. When the BM came over, Dexter broke the place command. HOWEVER, he approached the BM in a friendly manner and proceeded to sniff him. NO AGGRESSION! I was so shocked that I forgot to correct him for breaking the place (we’re working on my timing...lol). He was not fearful and was great with the other dog. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I got Dexter back on the place, and they retrieved the BM. So freaking excited.

She told me he would be fine if I got another dog down the road - a female. He’s very playful.

We worked on heel with distraction, place with distractions, and the fundamentals of the e-collar. I have more trainings coming up.

Now to the really exciting part...Dexter at home. My neighbors got a new dog while Dexter was away. I was letting Dexter out when the neighbor was getting home. They exited their vehicle with the dog, which I couldn’t see because the driver side door was facing away from me. Dexter saw the dog before me and NO REACTION! He sniffed the air near the dog and continued on his heel with me. This was a dog I practically had to body slam to the ground his reactions had been so intense and instant. They confirmed what I thought...the prong collar just amped him up.

I’ve been walking him every day past other dogs and no aggressive reactions. I haven’t even had to use the e-collar.

I took a co-worker with me to pick Dexter up. Dexter had never met her before. They had my co-worker not touch or pet him...just give him treats. Dexter was stuck to her like glue. They told me he will never be a dog that strangers can just come up and fawn all over. But once he makes friends, it’s for life. He needs to be introduced and ignored in the beginning. They want treats to fall from the sky when he’s around strangers so he knows there is nothing to worry about.

They asked me if he ever had a bad interaction with a person. The only thing that sticks out is when he was in obedience class, and the trainer took his leash. She gave him a hard leash correction at 7-9 months old because he would focus on her...he didn’t want to leave me. They weren’t impressed that a stranger gave the dog a correction for that reason. She said it could have resulted in him being more mistrustful of strangers. He’s not a hard dog, and he’s handler soft.

Anyway, I got what I wanted out of this experience. He’s non-reactive to other dogs, neutral to strangers, and better behaved under distractions. Another dog no longer derails his obedience. I’m thrilled. ?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You make my heart happy


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

That's fantastic!So happy for you!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I’m so excited that I can’t even put it into words. I love that this place uses what works for each dog. No cookie cutter training. They flat out told me not all dogs need the e-collar, but he did. It was a non-confrontational approach with him since strangers aren’t his thing. It also didn’t destroy the trust they were building with him.

They had other people handling him, he was around other dogs all the time. I couldn’t have done what they accomplished in 5 weeks. Dexter wouldn’t have had that type of day in and day out exposure/socialization. Now I can start enjoying taking him out with me and working on all the things we learned. If I haven’t said it before, I’m so excited. lolol


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

Oh my! What a fantastic outcome! It really sounds like you got Dexter exactly the help he needed. It will never cease to amaze me how deeply trust can so deeply affect dogs; both good and bad! Please keep updating this thread, as I suspect you are going to continue to make outstanding progress now that those automatic reactions have stopped. This is a real success story! Congratulations!


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Awesome update - so happy for you and for your boy. Welcome home, Dexter!


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Ivan is a top trainer, so happy to hear how well it worked out for you.

Just for edification - did they explain how they used the e-collar for dog/human reactivity? I've heard different thoughts from different trainers, but if I'm not mistaken, Ivan makes it really clear to the dog that he is being corrected for making the wrong choice--- not for breaking OB. In other words, he makes it super clear to the dog what behaviors he wants, and what behaviors are unacceptable. Did they go into this with you?

Great outcome. Keep it up!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Muskeg said:


> Ivan is a top trainer, so happy to hear how well it worked out for you.
> 
> Just for edification - did they explain how they used the e-collar for dog/human reactivity? I've heard different thoughts from different trainers, but if I'm not mistaken, Ivan makes it really clear to the dog that he is being corrected for making the wrong choice--- not for breaking OB. In other words, he makes it super clear to the dog what behaviors he wants, and what behaviors are unacceptable. Did they go into this with you?
> 
> Great outcome. Keep it up!


Great clarification. I don’t correct him for breaking obedience. The e-collar is basically for going after another dog (i.e.,making the wrong choice). They made it clear to him that going after another dog is unacceptable. So I’m not correcting him for breaking the obedience command. Just reinforcing that aggression towards another dog is a no go. If he chooses to go after another dog, he gets corrected on the e-collar. He hasn’t even tried to do that since we’ve been home so he’s making correct choices. Yay!

The prong is fine for a general correction on Dexter. It did not work for his dog aggression. It made it worse. Before Ivan, I made the switch to a dominant dog collar because it gave me better control of Dexter.

Dexter has a clear understanding of all his commands. Although I have noticed that his obedience is sharper since coming home. He knows what is expected.

Does that answer your question or am I misunderstanding?


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Woohoo! totally worth the Board and Train! 

keep up with your end of the work, don't let him backslide... 

I wish I could train dogs like that!


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

Wow what great news! Sounds like the perfect outcome. Very happy for you both!


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Yes, thank you. Your dog sounds similar to my big boy and that is how I used the collar as well- to correct for aggression/reactivity, but making it very clear why he was being corrected. Black and white for the dog that way. I was going with what I know of Ivan's work (he is among the best) but also just seeing what worked for me and my dog as being most fair, safe, fast, and clear method of training. 

I also found a prong works similar for my guy- honestly those cheapo slip leads from the vet I've used at times for training as well- high on the neck.A prong can work fine for sport OB or whatever, but not for reactivity (it does work for some dogs, including one of mine, so really it's whatever works best depending on the dog you are training) 

I am so glad it worked out for you. I have a good feeling that this is going to be a long-term solution. Good on you for choosing Ivan!


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Muskeg said:


> Yes, thank you. Your dog sounds similar to my big boy and that is how I used the collar as well- to correct for aggression/reactivity, but making it very clear why he was being corrected. Black and white for the dog that way. I was going with what I know of Ivan's work (he is among the best) but also just seeing what worked for me and my dog as being most fair, safe, fast, and clear method of training.
> 
> I also found a prong works similar for my guy- honestly those cheapo slip leads from the vet I've used at times for training as well- high on the neck.A prong can work fine for sport OB or whatever, but not for reactivity (it does work for some dogs, including one of mine, so really it's whatever works best depending on the dog you are training)
> 
> I am so glad it worked out for you. I have a good feeling that this is going to be a long-term solution. Good on you for choosing Ivan!


That’s been my experience. A prong works fine for Dexter with everything but reactivity. With reactivity, it just made it so much worse than it had to be.

I’ve been very pleased with Dexter’s progress and Ivan’s training methods. ?

Did the e-collar resolve your dog’s reactivity?


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## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

Great to hear everything worked out.

The first time I took Ole to the vet he freaked out so bad after she tried to take his temp that she sent us home with Trazadone and told us to come back tomorrow. The first time we went to reactive dog class, the trainer kept a chair between herself and Ole. Pup had some issues. Poor guy was only 4 months at the time.

With my guy, it took hours of desensitization. Copious rewards for good choices and very mild but gradually increasing corrections for bad choices

After a lot of work and experimentation at the vets office. We have gotten to the points where Ole is just fine if it is just one person working on the dog while I am standing directly in front of him telling him to hold still and remain calm. Hold his collar firmly so that he can't get off a snap.

What doesn't work for us is either the vet or a vet tech trying to restrain pup. That blows him way past his threshold.

At first, we went in every other day do desensitize him to the environment and people. Now, we go in once a week to be weighed and have a vet tech handle each of his feet to make sure we don't get lazy and backslide. The vets office has been really cool about the whole thing. They even let me go in one of the exam rooms and lift Ole on a table to do our handling drills.

@IllinoisNative have you tried 'follow me, yield to me' drills with a prong collar for Dexter. 



 Over several days we did a bunch of these drills in very low distraction environments to give Ole a chance to learn that the undesirable sensation in his neck was caused by not following me. We very gradually added distraction so Ole could understand that the undesirable sensation was caused by not following me rather than associate it with the trigger.

So far I have never had to correct him using the prong collar. Instead, he corrects himself by putting tension on the lead he remove the correction by releasing tension on the lead. I like this because it eliminates any timing errors on my part when issuing corrections. But, I don't think this would have worked if we hadn't spend several hours conditioning him to how the collar workds

I wish I had the skill of someone like Ivan. Trying to do this at home has taken several hours per day over six weeks and Ole is still very much a work in progress.


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