# Poor quality kibble woes from Pakistan



## 607528 (Sep 4, 2015)

Dear fellow GSD enthusiasts,
I would like to your help. 
Someone rather (unhelpfully I believe) sold me a brand of kibble which I believe might be on the lower end of the range as far as quality/ingredients etc. I had told this 'helpful expert' that I was interested to buy Royal Canin Maxi Puppy for my 8 week year old puppy but he suggested that he had a better product 'Nutragold ProBreeder' and which his shop sells....rolleyes

Anyway, I have lots of question marks about this food* and if we are to assume that it is of a sub-standard quality what can I do to counter the lack of protein or other nutrients which might be lacking in this kibble? *

I read in the forums here that adding a raw egg will help with protein. Is that good for a 8 week puppy? What other things can I supplement to make sure she can get all the nutrients she needs during her growing age. 

Please help  
:help:


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm sorry about your experience and I know you must be very concerned about getting good nutrition for your pup. I really don't know enough about puppy nutrition to say how much egg to feed, but if you must supplement protein maybe a can of no salt sardines in water will also do. Is it difficult to buy food online and have it shipped either within your country, or imported from someplace else?

The nutragold seems to have better ingredients than Royal Canin if the first ingredient is actually chicken and not chicken by products, but Royal has higher proteing 28% vs 20%. 

Nutragold Ingredients

Chicken (20%), chicken meal, rice flour (18%), ground corn, corn gluten meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), egg product, beet pulp, flaxseed, poultry digest, brewers dried yeast, glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, vitamins and minerals.

Royal Canin Maxi puppyIngredients
Chicken by-product meal, brewers rice, corn, wheat, wheat gluten, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, natural flavors, dried beet pulp, sodium silico aluminate, calcium carbonate, potassium phosphate, vegetable oil, salt, fish oil, psyllium seed husk, fructooligosaccharides, L-lysine, potassium chloride, hydrolyzed yeast, choline chloride, taurine, DL-methionine, glucosamine hydrochloride, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, niacin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement], marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, copper proteinate, sodium selenite), chondroitin sulfate, rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

NutraGold seems to be sold in countries other than the USA and Canada, but is sold in India.

It is made by the Diamond Company, of which personally, I am not a fan.

I would go with a better quality food that is available in your country called Farmina Pet Foods (made in Italy - IMHO better quality than Royal Canin) which many people on this site feed:
Popular Pet Food Brands in Pakistan (scroll down to bottom of page where you see a picture of a fresh fish).

Raw Eggs are a good choice but not too many per week. If you cook them, cook "over easy" and do not break the yellow or let it get hard/cooked as it's liquid holds the fragile fatty acids.

Lean ground raw or slightly cooked meat is also a good topping.

Put some water in her dish, mix in the topping, then mix in the dry kibble and let it soak for a time before feeding. Make sure any food that is not eaten is put into the refrigerator.

Moms


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Farmina is an excellent food as far as I am concerned. My dog is doing very well on it and has had good bloodwork with it. (I do an annual test). That said, I know they do have several different varieties within their line. I am feeding the ancestral grains.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

you might try studying up on good cooked or raw diet and come out better preparing it yourself.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Momto2GSDs said:


> NutraGold seems to be sold in countries other than the USA and Canada, but is sold in India.
> 
> It is made by the Diamond Company, of which personally, I am not a fan.
> 
> ...


You can combine that site listed with Dog Food Adviser also.


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## 607528 (Sep 4, 2015)

*Thanks*



Gretchen said:


> but if you must supplement protein maybe a can of no salt sardines in water will also do. Is it difficult to buy food online and have it shipped either within your country, or imported from someplace else?
> 
> The nutragold seems to have better ingredients than Royal Canin if the first ingredient is actually chicken and not chicken by products, but Royal has higher protein 28% vs 20%.
> 
> Nutragold Ingredients.


Thanks GRETCHEN. That is a relief to see that it is not as bad as I thought. Yes, it is quite expensive to ship etc into the country. Will have a look for 'no salt sardines'. 
Thank you.


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## 607528 (Sep 4, 2015)

*Thank you*



Momto2GSDs said:


> NutraGold seems to be sold in countries other than the USA and Canada, but is sold in India.
> 
> I would go with a better quality food that is available in your country called Farmina Pet Foods (made in Italy - IMHO better quality than Royal Canin)
> Raw Eggs are a good choice but not too many per week. I
> ...


Thanks MOMS  
Yes, that is why I became suspicious when I realized it is not sold in Western Europe or North America but in Russia, Romania, Thailand etc. Which probably means it does not meet the standards of USA etc. 

I gave a raw egg this morning with her kibble which she ate very nicely. Will give it a go to try to cook as you said without breaking the yellow. 

Would it be best to boil the ground meat?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

607528 said:


> Thanks MOMS
> Yes, that is why I became suspicious when I realized it is not sold in Western Europe or North America but in Russia, Romania, Thailand etc. Which probably means it does not meet the standards of USA etc.
> 
> I gave a raw egg this morning with her kibble which she ate very nicely. Will give it a go to try to cook as you said without breaking the yellow.
> ...


You are welcome!

Were you able to find the Farmina Kibble?

You can give the eggs raw (I do) just do not over do the number of raw eggs, so as not to interfere with Biotin absorption. For example, our female is 62 pounds and she gets 2 eggs, 4 times per week. Our male is 85 pounds and gets 3 eggs, 4 times per week.

If you trust your meat source, you can feed raw. But if you want to be sure, freeze the meat for two weeks before feeding raw. Otherwise, you can slightly boil, drain, and rinse the meat with more water to remove the oil.

Good luck with your pup!
Moms


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## 607528 (Sep 4, 2015)

zyppi said:


> you might try studying up on good cooked or raw diet and come out better preparing it yourself.





zyppi said:


> raw diet and come out better preparing it yourself.


Thanks will give that a search. I wanted to continue the food the breeder was given already so to drastically change the diet. Our last dog we gave homecooked meals. I think when...when...I finish this 20 kg bag of Nutragold kibble then I will slowly transition back to that. At least I know exactly what I am giving with that. 

In the meantime I will will follow Moms suggestion of supplementing ground meat, eggs, sardines to this kibble as I can't afford to waste it.


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## 607528 (Sep 4, 2015)

*Thanks*



Momto2GSDs said:


> You are welcome!
> 
> Were you able to find the Farmina Kibble?
> 
> ...


 








I will have to look for Farmina but currently due to budget constraints will have to wait till I finish the Ultragold. 
So for a 8 week pup then probably just 2 eggs a week is probably enough right? She is only 5.5 kg at the moment. 

Haha, never can trust meat sources in Pakistan!! 
Will have to freeze or boil it


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## 607528 (Sep 4, 2015)

*Ground Beef*

At what age do you think I can start feeding my puppy ( now 8.5 weeks) ?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Both of my dogs started eating raw meat at 3 weeks old with their breeder!

Yes, definitely freeze or slightly cook all of your meats!

Don't forget that if you do end up changing your kibble, to introduce the new kibble slowly, in small amounts mixed with your current kibble, taking a week or two to do this, so your pup won't get gut upset/diarrhea.

Moms


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

607528 said:


> At what age do you think I can start feeding my puppy ( now 8.5 weeks) ?


You can start feeding ground meats as soon as they start eating solid foods. The thing you have to remember with home cooked meals is that you MUST balance with bone and organ meat. OR at least have supplements. I'm not hugely familiar with feeding raw for puppies but I know that it's a big deal to ensure you have it balanced. Hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge in that area will chime in!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

607528 said:


> At what age do you think I can start feeding my puppy ( now 8.5 weeks) ?


You are talking about just "supplementing" the kibble you are now feeding with meat and other toppings......right? 
Not JUST feeding beef as your pups meals?

This would be a whole different diet that you would need to research thoroughly before beginning. 

Moms


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

wyoung2153 said:


> You can start feeding ground meats as soon as they start eating solid foods. The thing you have to remember with *home cooked* meals is that you MUST balance with *bone and organ meat.* OR at least have supplements. I'm not hugely familiar with feeding raw for puppies but I know that it's a big deal to ensure you have it balanced. Hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge in that area will chime in!


I feel I need to at least say *RAW* bones... since prior in the sentenced I mentioned home *cooked *meals. Never ever ever give cooked bone.. ok. that's it. Lol. just wanted to make sure that was clarified.


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## 607528 (Sep 4, 2015)

*Ground beef supplement*



Momto2GSDs said:


> You are talking about just "supplementing" ......right?
> Not JUST feeding beef as your pups meals?
> Moms


Thanks WYOUNG and MOMS
Yes, only supplementing at the moment. It seems that since people are feeding from age of 3 weeks it should be completely safe to start feeding slightly boiled ground beef with her kibble. It seems it should be ok to do this. No I won't to be moving onto a raw meat/organ diet. I don't trust the beef available here locally to be safe to be eaten raw. 

For now will stick with the cooked ground beef.  



wyoung2153 said:


> Never ever ever give cooked bone..


Thanks Wyoung will be sure to only give raw bones. 
Just one thing that I am worried about with getting her big (1 foot) long or so bone was that it might have parasites on it if I don't boil etc first. 

What I used to do in years past when we last had a dog was to take one of those large bones and boil it so that it killed off the parasites etc (that was my thinking anyway) and give it to our adult dog. She would chew on that for a week or 10 days slowly grinding it down. Was that potentially dangerous?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

607528 said:


> Thanks Wyoung will be sure to only give raw bones.
> Just one thing that I am worried about with getting her big (1 foot) long or so bone was that it might have parasites on it if I don't boil etc first.
> 
> What I used to do in years past when we last had a dog was to take one of those large bones and boil it so that it killed off the parasites etc (that was my thinking anyway) and give it to our adult dog. She would chew on that for a week or 10 days slowly grinding it down. Was that potentially dangerous?


 It is potentially dangerous to do that. What happens is by cooking it you change the structure of the bone causing the pieces to become brittle and sharp when chewed on and broken off.. this compared to raw which are pliable and digestible. 

My parents used to do the same as you and our dogs always lived a very long life. Ultimately you are the one that needs to decide that. You can also order raw bones to be sent to you online though I am not sure if they ship to Pakistan or not so maybe that is something you can look into.


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## 607528 (Sep 4, 2015)

*Good news*

We stopped feeding kibble about a month ago and am now feeding only on home-cooked meal and she is doing just fine. 
We are feeding her tripe and beef mince meat mix with vegetables such as carrots and potatoes which is all boiled and mashed together. 
Her stools are good and she looks healthy. 

Before that we cooking the same stuff an mixing it with kibble both seemed to work well with her. I am glad we didnt depend solely on the kibble as I think it's not healthy for the dog.


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