# I am at lost what to do with my German Shepherd he's being very aggressive



## Zeus2017 (Sep 12, 2017)

I have a 1 and a half year old German Shepherd. My in-laws live with us in part of the house. I got the dog when he was a puppy he's loving caring he listens to me with no issue and respect me. But the past 6 months he keeps attacking my in-laws and I don't know what to do. He lunged at my mother-in-law gouged arm out and lunged at my father-in-law and gouged his hand pretty good after they tried to correct him for him biting the carpet. I don't know what to do I don't want to give him up but I don't want to see him injure anybody. The dog has been socialized since he was a young puppy strangers he's sweet as pie he listens to me but for whatever reason he doesn't like my in-laws. He went away for a month for training with professional very well-respected trainer in my area which cost me nearly $1500. He's well-fed I exercise him constantly he's loved and cared for not mistreated I'm just a lost what to do. I'm a grown man pretty much sitting here in tears and don't know what to do. I lost my other dog to cancer I don't want to lose another one.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

How were your in-laws trying to correct him?


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Your dog is at an age where he is maturing and becoming more serious and aggressive. I would absolutely separate him form your in laws and anyone else unless you are there. He clearly doesn't respect them and has learned he can push them around with aggression. I would like to know how they corrected him as well? I'd also like to know how bad the bites were? 

If you want to keep this dog, you are going to need to step up and take control of this dog. The dog needs to learn that inappropriate aggression will not be tolerated. This includes growling, barking, lunging, dirty looks and of course biting. Your in laws should not be trying to correct or discipline your dog. Your dog has won twice already in these little battles and he now knows that he can win if he becomes aggressive. This will only get worse if you do not take the right corrective action right now. 

You have a responsibility to your in laws to keep them safe from your dog and you have a responsibility to your dog. If it were me, they would never be alone together, nor would this dog ever have the run of the house unsupervised.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Crate or manage your dog when the inlaws are around. That's the only solution. He's trying out behaviors, and aggression is in his "toolbox" now, so he'll use it again. 

Tell your inlaws only YOU should be correcting the dog. Make it very clear. No touch, no talk, no eye-contact between inlaws and dog for now. This isn't unprovoked aggression, but it is inappropriate. That is up to you, the owner, to correct. 

If you can, finding a GOOD trainer may help work as you work towards a solution. Careful, though, and do your homework if you go this route. From what I've seen there are unfortuantely more unskilled/bad trainers than good. A bad trainer will do more harm than good.


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## Zeus2017 (Sep 12, 2017)

He has a prong training collar on it with a small lead that the trainer told us to use. When he does something wrong you pull down and correct him.


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## Zeus2017 (Sep 12, 2017)

The Mother-in-law got 12 stitches. I work with him constantly day in and day out. I just talked to the trainer he's going to come to the house and observe next week. He said in the meantime go back to crate training let him out to eat and go to the bathroom then put him back in the crate. Let him earn to time out of the crate


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Zeus2017 said:


> I have a 1 and a half year old German Shepherd. My in-laws live with us in part of the house. I got the dog when he was a puppy he's loving caring he listens to me with no issue and respect me. *But the past 6 months he keeps attacking my in-laws and I don't know what to do. He lunged at my mother-in-law gouged arm out and lunged at my father-in-law and gouged his hand pretty good after they tried to correct him for him biting the carpet.* I don't know what to do I don't want to give him up but I don't want to see him injure anybody. The dog has been socialized since he was a young puppy strangers he's sweet as pie he listens to me but for whatever reason he doesn't like my in-laws. He went away for a month for training with professional very well-respected trainer in my area which cost me nearly $1500. He's well-fed I exercise him constantly he's loved and cared for not mistreated I'm just a lost what to do. I'm a grown man pretty much sitting here in tears and don't know what to do. I lost my other dog to cancer I don't want to lose another one.


This is a tough situation, especially if your in-laws don't interact with the dog much and/or don't like the dog, or if they are not used to Dogs in general. 

As others have mentioned, for now I would supervise any interaction your dog has with your in-laws, so you can prevent any further biting! This can be on or off leash, depending on your dog's obedience level, but it is important to stop allowing it to continue!

Anytime you allow a dog to practice an unwanted, and in this case dangerous, behavior for that long it becomes much more difficult to change that behavior. I suggest you find a GSD experienced trainer to work with you and your in-laws at home. 
I'm curious though, did the board-and-train seem to help initially?

The best you may be able to hope for is to get his obedience to a point where he'll tolerate them and stop biting. You can't force a dog to "like" someone, but often they can be trained to behave appropriately. 

The thing is, lots of dogs don't tolerate corrections from outsiders well. So it's important for the in-laws to learn boundaries as well. And this is especially true if they are not an active and integral part of your lives, as the dog might not view them as family. And even if he does, he may never tolerate corrections from them. Some dogs are just that way...

My previous dog would bark and growl at anyone she didn't know well who tried to tell her what to do. Then she'd show her teeth if they pressed it or approached her too closely...she never had to bite to get the point across though! If she knew them well she'd just ignore them and look at me if I was present, usually comply if I was not present. But she definitely would not take instructions from a complete stranger ever...


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## Zeus2017 (Sep 12, 2017)

They grew up with dogs they love dogs they owned 3 German shepherds in the past. When I was talking to the trainer today he thinks the dog just has pent-up frustration because they just ignore him and they won't interact or play with him. he thinks that's part of the problem how true that is I don't know I'm not a dog trainer


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## Zeus2017 (Sep 12, 2017)

The boarding and training helped immensely he was a brand new dog when he came home. I kept up with the rigorous training that the trainer wanted me to do with him I do it every single day. The trainers highly experience with German Shepherds


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I would find a good local trainer and have them work with yourself, your wife, and your in laws in this dogs training. If the in laws live there with you and your wife. They all need to be able at some point to step in and tell this dog to knock it off if needed without getting mauled. How is this going to happen? I am glad you asked! A good local trainer working with all of you and the dog in person. Not going to be fixed over the internet or by sending the dog away for training. Post your location. I'll bet someone on here knows a good trainer that can work with your family and dog.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Zeus2017 said:


> They grew up with dogs they love dogs they owned 3 German shepherds in the past. When I was talking to the trainer today he thinks the dog just has pent-up frustration because they just ignore him and they won't interact or play with him. he thinks that's part of the problem how true that is I don't know I'm not a dog trainer


This is not a case of "pent up frustration". Your in laws do not interact with him and he does not see the need to respect them. They are not not anyone he feels he needs to listen too or respond too. He lacks respect and is becoming an adolescent and thinking for himself. *They scolded him or corrected him and he felt their behavior was inappropriate and he corrected them.* 

That is the issue, this is not a bite out of frustration. It is a young dog maturing, getting some testosterone and showing them he is not going to tolerate that behavior from them. A dog biting out of frustration is a completely different thing. 

To be fair to your dog, this is not unusual behavior for a male GSD. Nor, do I necessarily see it as a really bad thing. It definitely needs to be corrected and managed. It does mean that you have your work cut out for you. All of my male dogs would have bitten anyone other than me or my wife for correcting them. If he is wearing a prong collar with a tab, you can be sure he will tag them again if they try to use that to correct him. 

I would probably bring your in laws to the next training session. Let your in laws meet your trainer and have them discuss the issues with your dog directly with the trainer.

Good luck.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I think leaving him in the crate most of the time is going to lead to pent up energy, which is certainly not going to solve the problem. If he doesn't have productive ways to expend that energy it could even make the problem worse. Personally, I'd rather have him on leash _with you_ when he's out of his crate. You control him, you correct him if necessary, you reinforce the correct behavior. Putting him away doesn't really teach him anything, it just avoids the issue.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If I were the in-law(s) I would move, assuming it is your house. But if that doesn't happen, never give the dog and your in-laws a chance to be in the same area when you are not present. Do they respect your boundaries?
He knows that biting works and that is on his hard-drive. I would never trust him with your in-laws again, training or no training.
Change trainers are yours doesn't have good insight in behavior when he talks about pent-up energy. Lots of dogs have that and never bite.
He bites because he knows he can with them.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

He considers himself higher in the pack than your in-laws. As such he will coexist with them, but he will not take correction or even sometimes direction from them. The problem is that you cannot transfer pack position once it has been attained by the dog if they are young adults( 10 months or thereabouts). The in-laws have to take the leadership role either through training or stronger methods. Usually, this is difficult to achieve, because dogs don’t reason as people do. Some dogs are content to be submissive to all humans in the pack, others try to reach highest status in pack family they can. 
The only possible solution I can suggest, is if thein-laws take the dog through obedience training with a very skilled trainer. I deal with this situation quite often....if the in-laws can learn to handle the dog then over time they POSSIBLY may be able to resolve this issue,( but frankly if the dog gave one of them 12 stitches), then the dog may be more than they can manage.....then separation ( either permanent or in house whenever you are not around) is the only solution.
Just my two cents!


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Yikes- I have to question this trainer if he advises the dog wear a prong collar with a tab and let anyone correct him. Remember, a prong can be used to activate a dog, not just to correct. If a correction is not done properly, the dog gets more amped up, not less. Prongs are a nice tool, but not my go-to for correction in the house. 

OP- years back I went to a so-called "expert" in shepherds, the guy is still in business somehow. I am ashamed to say I didn't walk out there after 10 seconds, and instead gave him 20 minutes. But that was all I gave him. This trainer would have absolutely gotten into conflict with my dog to the point of getting bitten... that was his style. He outright said this to me, showing me his scars proudly. That is when I left. Some trainers have only one tool in their toolbox- the prong, and a few other rote measures, and they not only do not work for every dog, but they certainly don't work for everyone who comes in contact with that dog, particularly if the people do not like the dog, are afraid or angry at the dog, or don't know what they are doing. The inlaws should absolutely not be yanking on the prong again. 

Corrections certainly can be done properly, but this is a hands-on lesson you need to have with a skilled trainer. The forum is not the place to go into details on this.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I agree with most everything others have posted here, but I have to ask a couple questions also...

Did you send your dog to a board-and-train because of the aggression he was showing to your in-laws, or did that start later? 

Was it on the advice of your trainer that your in-laws ignore the dog? And they are still doing this after being in the house for 6 months? Also, do you, and your wife for that matter, get along well with her parents, or could it be that your dog is picking up on some tension there? I have to ask because that seems like either could be a likely reason your dog may view them as he does! Obviously, it's not something you need to respond to on a public forum, but dogs do pick up on things like that, and sometimes act on it....something to think about.

That being said, I can't imagine ignoring a dog I live with for 6 months...it's typically advice that's given for initial meetings, but not something I'd expect to continue beyond that!

In your original post you said he has been doing this for 6 months. Are the recent injuries to your in-laws the only injuries? What other signs or bites have you seen prior to this?

A bite requiring 12 stitches is not anything to fool around with! As @Slamdunk said, it's certainly not a frustration reaction! But to give your trainer the benefit of the doubt, confusion and frustration at being ignored for a prolonged period could contribute the the way he views your in-laws in terms of pack dynamics. 

You guys need to really be clear in explaining things to your trainer when he/she comes. And don't be afraid to find someone else if the advice youre getting doesn't work, or doesn't make sense! 

in the meantime, definitely avoid having the dog lose around the in-laws, both for their safety and your dog's! You're going to have to deal with your dog's behavior whether or not your in-laws move, because now as someone mentioned earlier, biting is in his tool kit for situations he finds either uncomfortable or unacceptable. Either way, it's going to take some effort to change that mindset. Good luck, and please keep us posted!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

@Muskeg. Agreed, I thought the same thing.


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## Zeus2017 (Sep 12, 2017)

He went to the board and trainer just to learn better manners on walking on a leash. He had no issues with my in-laws prior prior to they played with him etc. He's a family dog we all got him together so they have to be able to correct him from time to time. It's mainly my mother-in-law he doesn't like and I don't know why.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

This is not an issue that a "board and train" will fix. This requires a good trainer that can train you and your in laws to handle and train your dog. 

Your dog is going to need a firm, fair handler who can properly correct the dog. Your mother in law does not have the dog's respect and clearly will get bit again if she tries to correct him. Find a trainer that can handle aggressive GSD's and is not afraid of getting bit. Let that trainer show you how to properly correct this dog for inappropriate aggression. Avoid the "animal behaviorists" they are going to be of little use.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Zeus2017 said:


> He went to the board and trainer just to learn better manners on walking on a leash. He had no issues with my in-laws prior prior to they played with him etc. .


This, to me, is a bit creepy....so after he went to board & train, is when he began to bite? 
Is something about the training method turning him into a more tense wound-up dog?

What about associating your in-laws with positive things, like could they feed him sometimes, call him and offer a treat, throw a ball. 
Maybe he needs a "softer" environment/training method overall so he can become a more relaxed confident dog. 

Like, instead of physical correction, what about sharp verbal "No", making loud noise, spray of water, etc. 
Then they don't have to get too close to him and physically handle him...
Shepherds seem to be smart sensitive dogs, I don't think the majority of them need to be handled "hard"...
(your dog might indeed be one of those, but I don't know him).

Lastly, I agree with everyone that inlaws and dog interaction needs to be controlled / managed! 

Hopefully someday scene could be like this: _He chews on carpet. Inlaw stands up, says sharply, "No!". Dog's ears go back, he looks like it's the end of the world. He goes and lays down (or Inlaw can say "Place!") Inlaw gives him a chewy or a toy, few kind words. Then dog thinks: 'Chewing is fine, just don't chew the carpet! ' _


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Ha ha, I just read Slamdunc's reply and he is vastly more experienced than me!!!
So you see how opposite people's thoughts can be...

But I just wanted to note, since he went to board & train just for Leash Manners (not aggression) - is he actually an aggressive dog? 
Or could it be that this biting has begun since people began to handle him more firmly/physically/dominantly, 
so he handles people more firmly/physically/dominantly in return?


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Yikes. Be careful, a big male German Shepherd is capable of killing a frail elderly person. Surely the two of them are afraid of him now and he knows it.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

GSDchoice said:


> Hopefully someday scene could be like this: _He chews on carpet. Inlaw stands up, says sharply, "No!". Dog's ears go back, he looks like it's the end of the world. He goes and lays down (or Inlaw can say "Place!") Inlaw gives him a chewy or a toy, few kind words. Then dog thinks: 'Chewing is fine, just don't chew the carpet! ' _


This scenario will probably get them mauled or killed. It is way beyond that. The combination inlaws and dog is plain dangerous.


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## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

Zeus2017 said:


> They grew up with dogs they love dogs they owned 3 German shepherds in the past. When I was talking to the trainer today he thinks the dog just has pent-up frustration because they just ignore him and they won't interact or play with him. he thinks that's part of the problem how true that is I don't know I'm not a dog trainer


You say your in laws grew up with and love dogs....how can you tell that's true ??....better yet....How can the dog tell it's true or that he's "loved"....he sure can't tell he's loved when all he's getting from your in laws is physical corrections.....they should have been interacting with the pup/dog from the start....involved in some of the day to day activities as he grew...playing....feeding .....training and grooming/brushing etc...setting boundaries as they interact...that's how you gain the dogs respect....frankly if your in laws were even remotely dog savvy they'd know that themselves....IMO at this dogs age if he'd been brought along correctly....physical corrections would not be necessary...a look or spoken command should be enough.....IF and only if the person giving the "look" or command has the dogs respect....you can spend $$$ on trainers... BUT if your in laws are not willing to become involved with the "good times" with the dog including training then the dog will never ever accept any physical correction from them....I'm the guy who always holds out hope for the dog....yes i know some habits become ingrained....but this may be fixable.... if and only if.. the in laws put in the time and work....if they don't see themselves as having done anything wrong....then $$$ and trainers can't fix it and it will surely get worse.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

GSDchoice said:


> This, to me, is a bit creepy....so after he went to board & train, is when he began to bite?
> Is something about the training method turning him into a more tense wound-up dog?
> 
> *What about associating your in-laws with positive things, like could they feed him sometimes, call him and offer a treat, throw a ball.
> ...


Ok, there are a couple of things we need to address. 

To start, there are some very hard GSD's out there. I've owned a couple. I don't know exactly what the root cause of the aggression is. It could one of several things. The dog could be "sharp" out of an insecurity and goes forward with aggression when challenged. The dog could simply be a strong dog that is now maturing and is not going to let anyone other than his handler correct him. 

I've owned both types of male GSD's dogs. One was a WGSL X ASL, born in 94, when you could find a seriously tough, hard SL dog. Boomer was the latter type, a very strong, confident, sufficiently hard (on my scale of hardness) and a very serious dog. In a pet household, he would have done the exact same thing. You were not going to take his leash and correct him, he would you then nail you. He had no handler aggression, but he would not tolerate any one but me and wife correcting him or taking his leash. I saw the start of this at around a year old. I don't know the OP's dog, but if this is the case he needs to handle it quickly and very firmly. Boomer was a WG X Czech WL dog, and he was sable. An absolutely magnificent animal. 

Next, with regards to respect. You can not or do not earn respect from a dog like this by giving treats, playing fetch or bonding. That is a serious misconception and will get someone bit. You can earn "trust" by being kind and a cookie dispenser or a ball pitching machine. To be very clear, with a strong dog you will not earn* respect* by paying treats, petting or tossing a ball. I know this for a fact. This is why behaviorists will not work with a dog like this. 

Strong dogs do not put their ears back and cringe when some one say "No!" Unless, the person saying it has the dog's complete respect and has proven it. A quote I recently heard from a very experienced trainer that works with serious dogs said: "Dogs and children should have a little fear of their handler or parents. They should be handled fairly, firmly, and never abused." There is some truth to that. 

Never think that all GSD's are smart, sensitive dogs. If you get out and see some really nice working GSD's you will realize how hard, strong and tough they can be. Some can be problematic in a pet home, unless the owner steps up and takes charge immediately. On the flip side, you have the weak nerved dogs that bite out of fear and insecurity. The approach might be slightly different in the beginning depending on the dog, but in the end it is all the same.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Shanes' Dad said:


> You say your in laws grew up with and love dogs....how can you tell that's true ??....better yet....How can the dog tell it's true or that he's "loved"....he sure can't tell he's loved when all he's getting from your in laws is physical corrections.....they should have been interacting with the pup/dog from the start....involved in some of the day to day activities as he grew...playing....feeding .....training and grooming/brushing etc...setting boundaries as they interact...that's how you gain the dogs respect....frankly if your in laws were even remotely dog savvy they'd know that themselves....IMO at this dogs age if he'd been brought along correctly....physical corrections would not be necessary...a look or spoken command should be enough.....IF and only if the person giving the "look" or command has the dogs respect....you can spend $$$ on trainers... BUT if your in laws are not willing to become involved with the "good times" with the dog including training then the dog will never ever accept any physical correction from them....I'm the guy who always holds out hope for the dog....yes i know some habits become ingrained....but this may be fixable.... if and only if.. the in laws put in the time and work....if they don't see themselves as having done anything wrong....then $$$ and trainers can't fix it and it will surely get worse.


^This is Exactly what I was thinking! Unless the dynamic between your in-laws and the dog changes drastically, no amount of correction is likely to resolve the problem! And given the history, I'm not sure you'll ever be able to fully trust the dog with them...

But he's still very young, so if they're willing to actually befriend the dog and work with him with the guidance of a good trainer, it's likely they can change how the dog relates to them and gain his respect.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Shanes' Dad said:


> You say your in laws grew up with and love dogs....how can you tell that's true ??....better yet....How can the dog tell it's true or that he's "loved"....he sure can't tell he's loved when all he's getting from your in laws is physical corrections.....they should have been interacting with the pup/dog from the start....involved in some of the day to day activities as he grew...playing....feeding .....training and grooming/brushing etc...setting boundaries as they interact...that's how you gain the dogs respect....frankly if your in laws were even remotely dog savvy they'd know that themselves....IMO at this dogs age if he'd been brought along correctly....physical corrections would not be necessary...a look or spoken command should be enough.....IF and only if the person giving the "look" or command has the dogs respect....you can spend $$$ on trainers... BUT if your in laws are not willing to become involved with the "good times" with the dog including training then the dog will never ever accept any physical correction from them....I'm the guy who always holds out hope for the dog....yes i know some habits become ingrained....but this may be fixable.... if and only if.. the in laws put in the time and work....if they don't see themselves as having done anything wrong....then $$$ and trainers can't fix it and it will surely get worse.


This goes along with my prior post. 

_*they should have been interacting with the pup/dog from the start....involved in some of the day to day activities as he grew...playing....feeding .....training and grooming/brushing etc...setting boundaries as they interact...that's how you gain the dogs respect*_

This is how you might gain trust or even "tolerance" from a strong dog. It will not earn respect from some dogs. While I do agree that what is going on should have been noticed and corrected at 3 months or so. This would have been the easiest time to assert yourself and teach the dog boundaries. The OP is way past that point. Now, a serious intervention needs to happen. 

Even if this dog was "brought along correctly" at this age physical corrections would still be needed from time to time. 

How do we gain respect from a dog? I can give you the example of my current dog, Boru. He came to me at 3 1/2 years old. He is a Dutch Shepherd that came from Holland and went to a Tier 1 Military team, where he bit 5 handlers and was washed out. He does not do well in a multi handler environment. he is a one person dog. This dog is a beast, strong, driven, powerful, very athletic and very reactive. This dog is on a different level. IF most GSD's played peewee football, some can make the High School team and a very small percentage can play football in college. Then there are the top NFL players, a fraction of all the kids that ever played football. Boru is the professional athlete, he is the one crushing people on the field in the Super Bowl. It took me two months to get a toy from him with out getting bit. It took about 4 months to get him to stop coming up the leash from a correction. The first year was rather stressful, I'm not going to lie. I spent time to gain his trust and he genuinely loves me and I really love him. Getting his trust was one thing and that happened in a couple of months. Getting his respect was another story. 

To get his respect, I first had to teach him that a "prong collar" correction was not something to bite me over. Remember, he had bitten several people before I got him, that is how he came to me. I had to up his obedience and bite work and start putting him in situations that would require extra control and would set him up to bite me. Boru is not a dog that an inexperienced handler would have success with. I'm not saying I am anything special. I have a lot of patience, really appreciated what I saw in the dog, namely the aggression, drive and sheer physical ability. He is a Police K-9, and he has a serious job to do and I like tough dogs. I almost met my match with him, but I stuck it out. I considered sending him back at one point and figured he would probably be put down. Just I kept him. Gaining his respect was tough and rough work. We had several "come to Jesus" meetings and several battles that I was not only prepared to fight, but prepared to win. He is a very hard dog, very resilient and aggressive when in drive, especially in bite work. I got bit a few times. One time the big dummy closed a door on his tail in training. He is reactive and bit me from the pain. He had two of my fingers in his mouth at the second knuckle and I thought, I'm about to loose a finger. As soon as I was able to open the door, which was not easy, he let go. We finished the building search with me dripping blood from my hand. I was not mad, nor do I hold a grudge. That's who the dog is. He was fine a second later and we went about our business, like it never happened. 

I've had Boru for over 2 years now and he is an outstanding patrol dog, he doesn't try to bite me anymore and has become easy to handle.

I'm not saying this dog is anywhere near as aggressive, hard or tough to handle as Boru. But, it takes a serious person to gain respect from a dog like the OP's. As I said earlier, giving treats, tossing a ball, feeding etc will not do it. You need to be a benevolent dictator, fair and firm. When the dog is correct he gets praised and rewarded, he is also quickly and firmly corrected for disobedience and any sign of inappropriate aggression. The dog has 2 seconds to perform a command before he is made to do, whether that command is sit, down, stay, heel, etc. You must be very consistent and there are no grey areas. Only black and white. If your in laws are incapable of this they are never around the dog. Boru is never around family, he is not in the house or yard loose unless I am home with him. He is not the dog you bring to the family picnic. This dog may be similar. Boomer was fine around people as long as they didn't try to pet him. He would play fetch all day and bring you his kong. However, he viewed the world as his pitching machine or a treat dispenser. You weren't friends nor would he respect someone that threw a ball to him for an hour.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Speaking of this, I wonder what are the bloodlines of the Ops dog.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

How is he with your spouse (and kids, if applicable)? Is he safe for you to handle/correct? Do the in-laws have living areas seperate from yours? Could you build him a large, secure outdoor run and kennel, and not allow him to have access to the in-laws when you are not present to supervise? Does your trainer have experience in IPO or with working dogs or K9s?--As a pet-owner, I can't give you any advice, but I hope you find a solution and the right trainer to help you. I'm sorry you're going through this.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Slamdunc said:


> Next, with regards to respect. You can not or do not earn respect from a dog like this by giving treats, playing fetch or bonding. That is a serious misconception and will get someone bit. You can earn "trust" by being kind and a cookie dispenser or a ball pitching machine. To be very clear, with a strong dog you will not earn* respect* by paying treats, petting or tossing a ball. I know this for a fact. This is why behaviorists will not work with a dog like this.
> .


Griff is a strong dog. I got pretty negative comments on here when I introduced him to a prong at 6 months old. The result however is a much more compliant dog at 8 months old. Of course it hasn't taken away from his drive but he is respectful now. Once in a while an adolescent day but we get through that easily. 
I cringe at the thought of having had access to only a clicker and treats in training him. And also on my question if anyone had ever successfully trained a hard drive dog with clicks and treats only: no answer


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

wolfy dog said:


> Griff is a strong dog. I got pretty negative comments on here when I introduced him to a prong at 6 months old. The result however is a much more compliant dog at 8 months old. Of course it hasn't taken away from his drive but he is respectful now. Once in a while an adolescent day but we get through that easily.
> I cringe at the thought of having had access to only a clicker and treats in training him. And also on my question if anyone had ever successfully trained a hard drive dog with clicks and treats only: no answer



The prong collar is a very effective tool used properly. I can't recall if Boomer wore a prong at 6 months or not, he certainly did by 8 months. He was doing a full IPO 1 protection routine at 9 months and doing it very powerfully. While, I use a prong I use it with finesse to polish heeling. I also use it to correct and I can deliver a pretty good correction. I also use treats like string cheese and hot dogs to teach behaviors. While I do not use a clicker often I mark positive behavior and reward. I also mark negative behaviors and rarely have to correct. I never correct a dog for a behavior it has not be taught and understands. I teach a behavior motivationally, train the behavior then move to proofing the behavior. Corrections never come into play until the proofing stage, when the dog understands the behavior and decides not to do it. That is disobedience and that will be corrected, quickly, firmly and fairly. Then the dog is rewarded the instant it is correct and we move on. 

The truth is that many people do not know what a strong dog is, or have ever owned one. For their dogs a flat collar is all that is needed and that is probably a good thing. Those are the people that protest about prong collars the most.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Slamdunc, that is just what I am doing. He gets rewarded for the good. Never corrected for something he doesn't know. Based on the results of both my dogs, I am doing pretty OK with them. But...can't until the 'knucklehead' stage is over.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

wolfy dog said:


> Slamdunc, that is just what I am doing. He gets rewarded for the good. Never corrected for something he doesn't know. Based on the results of both my dogs, I am doing pretty OK with them. But...can't until the 'knucklehead' stage is over.


Well, that has always worked for me. It is a fair and consistent way to train and handle dogs. 

I do not know what the "knucklehead Stage" is?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Slamdunc said:


> I do not know what the "knucklehead Stage" is?


Example: he is in a hurry and finds Deja in his way; either he runs into her or jumps over her. She is super tolerant of him by the way. 
Or "forgetting" that he has to sit for his food. He is kinda like 14 year old teenager boys. You gotta love them but sometimes you get tired of them :grin2:


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Ahh, that is impulse control or "capping." I love dogs with drive and high energy, it never gets tiresome to me. I just use it to my advantage. He will be old soon enough, enjoy the speed and vigor now.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> Griff is a strong dog. I got pretty negative comments on here when I introduced him to a prong at 6 months old. The result however is a much more compliant dog at 8 months old. Of course it hasn't taken away from his drive but he is respectful now. Once in a while an adolescent day but we get through that easily.
> I cringe at the thought of having had access to only a clicker and treats in training him. And also on my question if anyone had ever successfully trained a hard drive dog with clicks and treats only: no answer


I have responded to your question multiple times. You just got answers you did not want to hear. All of my dogs were taught basic obedience using positive only.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> Griff is a strong dog. I got pretty negative comments on here when I introduced him to a prong at 6 months old. The result however is a much more compliant dog at 8 months old. Of course it hasn't taken away from his drive but he is respectful now. Once in a while an adolescent day but we get through that easily.
> I cringe at the thought of having had access to only a clicker and treats in training him. And also on my question if anyone had ever successfully trained a hard drive dog with clicks and treats only: no answer


Yes you got answers, they just weren't what you wanted to hear. I am squarely with you when you say that it is probably not possible to train a high drive dog only with clicks and treats, but IT IS POSSIBLE to do so without using a prong collar...I've done it many many times. Nothing wrong with using a prong collar, but the assumption that if you don't or haven't used one means you've never worked a strong or hard dog, is just plain bull hockey. A prong collar is just a tool...If you don't have one, you grab another tool, there are many in the box hopefully...


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

tim_s_adams said:


> Yes you got answers, they just weren't what you wanted to hear. I am squarely with you when you say that it is probably not possible to train a high drive dog only with clicks and treats, but IT IS POSSIBLE to do so without using a prong collar...I've done it many many times. Nothing wrong with using a prong collar, but the assumption that if you don't or haven't used one means you've never worked a strong or hard dog, is just plain bull hockey. A prong collar is just a tool...If you don't have one, you grab another tool, there are many in the box hopefully...


What other tools do you grab? What other collar offers the control and wide range of application to work a highly driven, strong dog? I realize that what one person thinks is high drive may be medium or low drive to another. Out of control to one person, may just enthusiasm and a dog willing to work to another person. I'm also looking for new things to add to my tool box for the dogs I work with.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Story from training last night: Club member hears his dog barking in the middle of the night, and puts him on a flexi type leash to take him outside. Unfortunately, there was a critter of some sort in the back yard, and the dog went charging off the back deck after it. 

His owner was yanked off his feet, and landed ON TOP of the dog. The dog was wearing a choke chain. Luckily, both dog and owner survived with only a few bruises.

I dunno how else I'd control a 90 lb. strong, very excited dog in a situation like this, unless he was wearing a prong. Harnesses only increase the dog's ability to pull. If the dog had been wearing a halti, he might have snapped his neck. Besides WHO wants to fumble to put on a halti when just woken from sleep?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

This is an alternative tool I like to recommend to newbies or people looking for a better way. I acquired this tool from a respected dog trainer of K9s on this forum. :wink2:

https://www.amazon.com/Purely-Positive-Training-Companion-Competition/dp/0966302001

Another tool I like to use is this one I learned from a member on this forum experienced with military dogs.

https://www.google.com/search?q=you...81PHcAhUPi6wKHUswCZoQ_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=512

I had already been successfully using much of these two resources but their addition to my tool box really helped expand my training repertoire without the use of a prong on young, high drive pups and dogs learning about life and some basic obedience.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Okay, one of those links is to a book, and the other shows a number of videos, without specifying which video you'd like us to watch. Could you please be more specific about these tools?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Sunsilver said:


> Story from training last night: Club member hears his dog barking in the middle of the night, and puts him on a flexi type leash to take him outside. Unfortunately, there was a critter of some sort in the back yard, and the dog went charging off the back deck after it.
> 
> His owner was yanked off his feet, and landed ON TOP of the dog. The dog was wearing a choke chain. Luckily, both dog and owner survived with only a few bruises.
> 
> I dunno how else I'd control a 90 lb. strong, very excited dog in a situation like this, unless he was wearing a prong. Harnesses only increase the dog's ability to pull. If the dog had been wearing a halti, he might have snapped his neck. Besides WHO wants to fumble to put on a halti when just woken from sleep?


This is what has served me well through the years when my dogs alert to something in the middle of the night, make some noise.

Most wildlife is harmless and will take off. 

As a small woman, I learned to take a lot of the power out of a dog by controlling the head and neck. I simply do this by exiting the house holding the dog by a flat collar, takes a lot of the momentum out of a potential lunge.

Lastly, making noise will often send potential thugs scurrying away BEFORE there is an altercation between my dog and them which, to me, is the best outcome for a threatening situation.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Uh oh. This somehow turned into a prong debate. Again. Maybe the word "prong" needs to be banned, like that one specific dog breed. :|


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

0


Sunsilver said:


> Okay, one of those links is to a book, and the other shows a number of videos, without specifying which video you'd like us to watch. Could you please be more specific about these tools?


If you want to learn teaching methods used by pros who don't promote prongs, either read the book or watch many of Stonnie's training videos. Neither trainer promotes physical aversives for puppies or young dogs.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I think the debate won't end until people start advising training dogs, with or without problems, vs corrections. I am not saying that a prong can't be well used for training, just saying it is not a substitute for training.

My friend just took in a three year old working line for TWO MONTHS of board and train. The dog has already been returned to the breeder once. He was delivered to the trainer with a prong, e collar, and choke chain. Oh yeah, the breeder trained him when he was returned before rehoming him. I am happy to say the dog is free of a neck full of aversives and is responding well to treats, something that the trainer was advised that the dog ignored.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

QUOTE=MineAreWorkingline: I have responded to your question multiple times. You are right, I forgot
You just got answers you did not want to hear. That doesn't matter to me.
All of my dogs were taught basic obedience using positive only. That is great of course, and best whenever possible. All mine so far as well except for the WL GSDs 

Question: how would you go about the methods in the following situation: you are walking on a trail with your high drive WL who is doing great; heeling, downs whenever fellow hikers pass by or come towards you. You continue your hike, proud of your (100%) positive only trained dog and then a feral cat runs across your path. How would that enfold? Or in general; how do you control a strong prey drive with just a clicker and treats? 
(either I haven't gotten the answer on this yet or I forgot, for which I apologize)


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Slamdunc said:


> What other tools do you grab? What other collar offers the control and wide range of application to work a highly driven, strong dog? I realize that what one person thinks is high drive may be medium or low drive to another. Out of control to one person, may just enthusiasm and a dog willing to work to another person. I'm also looking for new things to add to my tool box for the dogs I work with.


Jim, I wouldn't presume that I could add anything new to your toolbox, your experience speaks for itself. And I can't begin to argue the merits, or should I say "the control and wide range of application" of a prong collar, because I've never used one. But I have worked with several dogs that have gone on to careers in LE and PP. That was many years ago though, so perhaps the brutes you're working with these days are more difficult and could not be trained any other way, I don't know. Listening to your stories about Boru makes me wonder. Can't say I've ever worked with a dog quite that intense! 

I do know that using a prong collar on those dogs I mentioned earlier was not a requirement, because they were trained without. And honestly I don't recall them as being particularly difficult to train...fun yes! 

That being said, I have to agree with Pytheis, this really should not degenerate into another prong collar debate...I have nothing against the use of prong collars!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

0>:x


wolfy dog said:


> QUOTE=MineAreWorkingline: I have responded to your question multiple times. You are right, I forgot
> You just got answers you did not want to hear. That doesn't matter to me.
> All of my dogs were taught basic obedience using positive only. That is great of course, and best whenever possible. All mine so far as well except for the WL GSDs
> 
> ...



My experience has taught me that prey drive can usually be directed to something more harmless such as a ball. My one bitch is over the top in prey drive, Mal like. I have little doubt she would follow a ball to her demise. Her sire was a very high prey drive Czech police dog and he took multiple European police dog championships so she comes by it honestly.

Just a couple of weeks ago I had two of my dogs with me loose down a very isolated area of the river, one of them the high prey bitch. They were ahead by about thirty feet when a badly injured goose shot out of the brush trying to get to the river. Of course my dogs got excited, the male immediately recalled but the goose had stopped right in front of the bitch and she had to linger and savor the situation. The goose was flopped out on the ground in front of her and the bitch's eyes were like huge saucers as she took in what to her was God's gift... and then she started to recall. When she did, the goose darted for the river. Once again it was too much for her and she followed him in, never touching him, just sniffing, and then she recalled. All this within a matter of a few seconds. No, not perfect, but neither loose dog harmed this injured wildlife, and considering the bitch's prey drive, well, not too shabby. Her recall wasn't flawless but she did no harm. Priceless! 

But to specifically answer your question, it is about the foundation put on the dog and obedience. Of course there will always be exceptions to the rule but in my experience, they are exactly that, exceptions. My return question would be what is it about your training methods that makes you think your dog would fail a recall at the sight of what probably is a fearful, dumped pet?

My bitch is my worst case scenario when it comes to prey drive. She also is the highest overall drive of my dogs. But considering that she NEVER had a prong or choke on her neck and didn't even have a flat collar on, well, she made me proud.

See, here is a big difference between your training and mine, it is our attitudes more than the tools or training and that does feed down to the dogs. You recently wrote something to the effect when your dog was sick similar to you missed her kill the deer face. Now I am just paraphrasing, those weren't your exact words but it isn't the words but the attitude. You give the impression, at least to me, that you not only accept, but relish and appreciate such behavior. I don't. I accept my dogs prey drive but I do not delight in it. There is no doubt your dogs pick up on your excitement over their prey aggression while my dogs pick up on my disapproval. 

I remember a member on this forum who trains in a higher venue telling about her trainer suggesting that she lighten up on the serious or angry expression (once again paraphrasing) as her dog was picking up on her expression. Attitude means a lot.

The old herding GSDs had very high prey drive but it was fixated on sheep and was not easily distracted from them. A GSD that left its duties to chase rabbits or feral cats or killed other farm animals was useless for work. These are the genetics that all GSDs derive from them. Train the dog in front of you (general you), not the dog you envision. Just because you think your dog will fail a recall does not mean your dog will. If you think your dog will fail a recall then that is a training failure, not a result of high prey drive. One can reach for an aversive to correct the dog for a training failure or one can re-evaluate the training methods and maybe take a few steps back or change one's methods to one better suited to the dog in front of them.

I said I don't use aversives to train basics. For problem behaviors my first go to tools are to teach a dog what he can do or should be doing. I teach alternative or incompatible behaviors. That's usually win win. Teaching what they can do with patience and praise instead of using corrections for what they can't do IME makes for a happy and enthusiastic dog that is clear on what is expected as well as preserves the bond with out conflict betweens human and dog.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Quotes in red, comments in blue. I agree to disagree. I am happy with my training and you are happy with yours.



MineAreWorkingline said:


> 0>:x
> But to specifically answer your question, it is about the foundation put on the dog and obedience. Of course there will always be exceptions to the rule but in my experience, they are exactly that, exceptions. My return question would be what is it about your training methods that makes you think your dog would fail a recall at the sight of what probably is a fearful, dumped pet?
> She is not a robot. What do you mean by "a fearful, dumped pet?
> 
> ...


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> Quotes in red, comments in blue. I agree to disagree. I am happy with my training and you are happy with yours.


You used an example of your dog sighting a feral cat. Chances are if you saw it, then that cat was most likely dumped and is running scared. Feral cats don't let themselves be seen. I agree dogs aren't robots, but that does not make them maniacal killing machines either, especially GSDs, refer back to my herding comment. 

If there are any assumptions being made, and they lack in accuracy, it is because the information being given is incomplete or inaccurate itself. Not much difference between a dog's way of thinking or that of a human when things are ambiguous.

I just hope others reading understand that reward and praise training can go a long and reliable way with training high drive working line puppies and young dogs for basic obedience and manners.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> 0
> 
> If you want to learn teaching methods used by pros who don't promote prongs, either read the book or watch many of Stonnie's training videos. Neither trainer promotes physical aversives for puppies or young dogs.


I have a female working line who is handler soft. I resisted using a prong on her for a long time, but she would pull so hard that she was always sneaking in to take 'dirty bites' in the bark and hold.

I finally yielded to what was being suggested by more experience people in my club, and started using a prong. It solved the problem immediately.

She now does a proper bark and hold without trying to sneak dirty bites, and I no longer need the prong.

Like I said, it's a tool. And the tool you use depends on what you are training your dog for, the sort of dog it is, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Someone who was physically stronger than me might have been able to keep her from doing 'dirty bites' without a prong, but I needed it.


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## Zeus2017 (Sep 12, 2017)

Well I've made some serious progress since my last post. We noticed and we put together timeline ever since we started using the prong collar that's when he started being aggressive and his tail didn't Wag that much we just never took notice of it until we really started looking into it. So this whole week I've been working him without a prong collar just a training collar and his regular collar his Tails wagging normally he's definitely more Overjoyed everyday and he's greeting everybody with kisses and a wagging tail. He definitely has to earn his respect back but it's definitely a start in a good right direction. Some training methods work with some dogs some don't I'm assuming my dog fits in the category of prong collar just won't work on him


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## Zeus2017 (Sep 12, 2017)

He's absolutely great with kids and strangers. But I did post results I made some great progress this week with him but a long way to go


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Sunsilver said:


> I have a female working line who is handler soft. I resisted using a prong on her for a long time, but she would pull so hard that she was always sneaking in to take 'dirty bites' in the bark and hold.
> 
> I finally yielded to what was being suggested by more experience people in my club, and started using a prong. It solved the problem immediately.
> 
> ...


Good to hear it was the right tool for you and your dog in that venue. There is a time and place for everything. :thumbup: I have a friend training two dogs in IPO right now. He is working both of them prong free and doing quite nicely. He hopes to title both of them without ever having to use a prong.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Zeus2017 said:


> We noticed and we put together timeline ever since we started using the prong collar that's when he started being aggressive


Yes that's what I had noticed too in your post - so even though the prong can be a great training tool, perhaps your trainer was creating some bad vibes with it? So at least the bad vibes are dwindling...

There is still the Respect issue - 
he has to know that is it never OK to put teeth on people! 

(I defer to Slamdunc & other forum members on that...my own dog is apparently a big softy!!)

Anyway I hope all goes well and please be very careful going forward.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

This is encouraging. Thanks for the up date and a reminder that we often can't see the issue clearly when we are trying so hard to "correct" it. I've been reading some books on horse training --- and sometimes we just forget to "think like the dog" because we so expect them to respond as we want regardless of how wrong we are explaining ourselves to them.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Zeus2017 said:


> Well I've made some serious progress since my last post. We noticed and we put together timeline ever since we started using the prong collar that's when he started being aggressive and his tail didn't Wag that much we just never took notice of it until we really started looking into it. So this whole week I've been working him without a prong collar just a training collar and his regular collar his Tails wagging normally he's definitely more Overjoyed everyday and he's greeting everybody with kisses and a wagging tail. He definitely has to earn his respect back but it's definitely a start in a good right direction. Some training methods work with some dogs some don't I'm assuming my dog fits in the category of prong collar just won't work on him


I disagree that your dog fits into a category that pinch collar won’t work, rather I think that your use of the pinch was the reason for the dog going flat. I can almost guarantee you that I could work your dog with same pinch collar and she would be wagging her tail as she worked for me. The same pinch collar! So the difference can’t be the pinch collar, so it must be..........
My point is that many people don’t know how to properly use a pinch, as many don’t know how to use remotes, as many don’t know how to use positive only or corrections.........and they usually result in ineffective training of some sort. 
I am happy that you have switched from pinch, if your dog is doing better....but the tools of training are only as effective or humane as the people handling them,imo.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I suppose the "why" can be debated for a few days but the bottom line is they've found something that's working for them and something that wasn't working - to me that's what counts - the ingenuity of people in stepping back to look at what, when and why.


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## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

middleofnowhere said:


> I suppose the "why" can be debated for a few days but the bottom line is they've found something that's working for them and something that wasn't working - to me that's what counts - the ingenuity of people in stepping back to look at what, when and why.


Bingo^^^ We have a winner


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Am I the only one perplexed by this story?

So your trainer told you to use crank and yank with a prong collar for all corrections, including simple stuff around the house?

And you left a dog that dominant and hardheaded to his own devices around the house with your in laws?

Cause that’s a really strange story if true.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

'crank and yank'? That's what people who don't like prong collars say. And that is NOT the correct way to use them.

A tool is only as good as the person using it. Any tool can be abused. Or is that what you are trying to say?


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Zeus2017 said:


> Well I've made some serious progress since my last post. We noticed and we put together timeline ever since we started using the prong collar that's when he started being aggressive and his tail didn't Wag that much we just never took notice of it until we really started looking into it. So this whole week I've been working him without a prong collar just a training collar and his regular collar his Tails wagging normally he's definitely more Overjoyed everyday and he's greeting everybody with kisses and a wagging tail. He definitely has to earn his respect back but it's definitely a start in a good right direction. Some training methods work with some dogs some don't I'm assuming my dog fits in the category of prong collar just won't work on him


Congratulations on your progress! I would caution you however, to keep in mind that your dog has not forgotten that using his teeth on the MIL is a workable solution when he doesn't like what's happening. Did the trainer come and work with you all? Is this the same trainer that advised you to use the prong for corrections around the house initially? In any event, please continue to supervise the dog when the in-laws are present! I hope your success continues!


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Sunsilver said:


> 'crank and yank'? That's what people who don't like prong collars say. And that is NOT the correct way to use them.
> 
> A tool is only as good as the person using it. Any tool can be abused. Or is that what you are trying to say?


I got a prong for each dog in my car, in my wife’s car, and a spare one in the house I lost for awhile and found recently. 

So I wouldn’t say I dislike them :wink2:

My point was basically what OP has since figured out. He was letting inexperienced people use a sledgehammer to kill a fly. And upset that things worked out predictably poorly. 

The chain of events make such little sense, that I was legitimately dumbstruck he’d paid someone to come up with this plan of action and allowed it to be carried out without being present to manage the situation.


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## Zeus2017 (Sep 12, 2017)

The main reason my dog went to the trainer was to learn better leash manners. Prior to that he had no issues not biting anyone nothing he listened to everybody. He was originally trained on a choker type collar not the prong collar. When I went back for follow-up visits the trainer suggested using a prong collar and we put the dog on the prong collar because he responded better to the prong collar. He also suggested using the prong collar around the house with a short lease attached to it so if he did something bad you could correct him. And what I think the issue he always thought every time you reach for that collar it was going to be a correction and he just got angry with it. Like I said prior to us using the prong collar he never showed his teeth or put his teeth on anyone's skin. Only after we started using the prong collar did he start that. I will keep working with him with his regular collar and the training choker type collar. He does have to earn respect back after what he did of putting teeth on skin. He is a very smart dog and loving we just got to keep trucking through the rough patches and keep at the training. I forget the training the trainers try to mimic a world-renowned dog expert and trainer. That's what they went to school for. I guess every dog has hiccups along the way.

This is where my dog went for training
https://www.animalresorts.info/


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Fortunately, in case the dog attacks the inlaws again, a choke chain can give a pretty good correction. Although please be aware choke chains can damage the trachea and thyroid gland.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

What did the trainer say after the dog bit the inlaws?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

16 stitches sounds like a pretty bad bite. 

I think it's worth keeping in mind that's how far this dog goes when he goes there.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You are near this Animal Resort place? 

In your area....I would trust any of these people to help me deal with aggression.
Sondra Rollison : Blitz Pet Professionals - Professional Dog Training
Beth Bradley: https://www.dog-trainer.biz/
Karen Decker: https://pupsdogobedience.com/

and maybe contact Cliffson1 who posted on this thread previously. He may be close enough to you.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

It’s great that you are going to continue working with your dog. After reading your last post, it is pretty much what I thought. Your dog dies not appreciate other people correcting him. The prong collar is not the problem. Your dog may react exactly the same way if your MIL or anyone else corrects him with a flat collar or choke chain. It is the act of correcting him at this adolescent age that will provoke another bite, if corrected by some one he does not respect. 

You mentioned that you were going to work with your dog so he can earn his respect back. The dog does not need to earn his respect, or get his respect back. Your family members need to earn the dog’s respect. There is s big difference, if I read your post correctly. 

The dog needs to learn to respect your family members. Until that happens he will challenge your in laws anytime they interfere with what he wants or try to correct him.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Zeus2017 said:


> Well I've made some serious progress since my last post. We noticed and we put together timeline ever since we started using the prong collar that's when he started being aggressive and his tail didn't Wag that much we just never took notice of it until we really started looking into it. So this whole week I've been working him without a prong collar just a training collar and his regular collar his Tails wagging normally he's definitely more Overjoyed everyday and he's greeting everybody with kisses and a wagging tail. He definitely has to earn his respect back but it's definitely a start in a good right direction. Some training methods work with some dogs some don't *I'm assuming my dog fits in the category of prong collar just won't work on him*


It sounds more to me like there was either poor instruction or poor interpretation on correct use. 
That said, as long as you are happy with the results you see all is good. 
I owned a dog for 13 years that would have taken serious offense to someone else issuing a correction regardless of what was around his neck. With a muzzle on he put a couple of wanna be trainers up on tables. 
My current dog is probably the softest dog I have ever seen, but I switched to a prong to overcome some barriers with her and I promise you she isn't slinking around sad and beaten. She enjoys walks now, and has gained a confidence she didn't previously have that has enabled her to explore previously off limits activities. And this is a dog that cowers if I frown. 
I will also add that the only access I had to a trainer was via messages and videos, and he did a fabulous job of explaining proper use, so in person I would expect much better results.


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## trouble19692021 (15 d ago)

Zeus2017 said:


> I have a 1 and a half year old German Shepherd. My in-laws live with us in part of the house. I got the dog when he was a puppy he's loving caring he listens to me with no issue and respect me. But the past 6 months he keeps attacking my in-laws and I don't know what to do. He lunged at my mother-in-law gouged arm out and lunged at my father-in-law and gouged his hand pretty good after they tried to correct him for him biting the carpet. I don't know what to do I don't want to give him up but I don't want to see him injure anybody. The dog has been socialized since he was a young puppy strangers he's sweet as pie he listens to me but for whatever reason he doesn't like my in-laws. He went away for a month for training with professional very well-respected trainer in my area which cost me nearly $1500. He's well-fed I exercise him constantly he's loved and cared for not mistreated I'm just a lost what to do. I'm a grown man pretty much sitting here in tears and don't know what to do. I lost my other dog to cancer I don't want to lose another one.


Muzzle him so he gets used to your family. You feed and water him as needed. Over time he will develop respect for them. I have been training police drug and bite dogs for 30 plus years. German Shepherds are known as a one person k-9.. They usually listen to handler or owner only. It takes time but it will work. God bless you all...


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

trouble19692021 said:


> Muzzle him so he gets used to your family. You feed and water him as needed. Over time he will develop respect for them. I have been training police drug and bite dogs for 30 plus years. German Shepherds are known as a one person k-9.. They usually listen to handler or owner only. It takes time but it will work. God bless you all...


4 year old thread...


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