# Expert GSD handlers please help am desperate. Dog aggression issues.



## Xenomorphic (Jun 28, 2011)

My German Shepherd is now 1 yr and 4 months old. She was bought from a reputable well known breeder who supplied me with my other dog- a superstar of impeccable good temperament and laid back nature- a few years before as a retired show dog three years old. That's why I went back. I got all the books and determined we'd do puppy rearing right. She went all over the place before she was fully vaccinated in my arms to see the world, and then to puppy class and training class as a youngster and excelled. She is highly intelligent and literally picks things up within 4 repetitions. She also teaches herself less desirable things like when to go in the bin for treats (after the family meal is made), how to open doors to let herself out and how to get into the kitchen cupboards. I thought we were doing everything right though and was feeling positive.

She has always had a streak of slight wariness- was watchful as a pup and at puppy class liked to play with one or two others but would keep out of the way of the big group free for all. Then as she got older, at class she started to bark at others constantly. I tried ignoring it and then began to take her away from the situation with minimal reaction from myself as advised by my trainer. This reaction has continued and developed, and now on the lead she most often lunges, snarls and barks at other dogs looking like something out of a horror story. It's embarrassing, but again, I try not to react and just take her away. 

She's an extremely active dog and takes all the exercise you can give her and more. Unfortunately the other family members will no longer take her out as she has attacked three other dogs- puppies or nervous dogs- when out. Fortunately there has never been damage done (or she'd be muzzled) as she pushes and growls more than show much interest in biting, but of course it's frightening for everyone involved and very upsetting. I try to exercise her very early in the morning (5.30 am) and in isolated place at night to avoid meeting others, but having been advised that exercise is important for her mental wellbeing, I do still let her off lead. If she has something to focus on, like her ball, she tends to ignore other dogs altogether.

This is the problem I have, there is just no rhyme or reason to how she responds to other dogs. She wandered off and up to one the other day when I was asking a family member to keep an eye on her so I could dispose of a poop bag, and I was horrifed when I saw her doing that and that my sister was just letting it happen- but with a polite face and bum sniff, the two parted fine. She has been run at by another dog who didn't seem that friendly and watched it closely, but neither moved nor reacted. Then today some poor dog got a mouthful of abuse from her just for walking past. These are dogs of all shapes and sizes and it just baffles me. At first I thought worried owners were setting her off but the owner today was friendly when he saw her, until she began screaming at his poor innocent beagle . 

I've had a behaviourist out who observed she was a very demanding dog and needed to be put in her place by not always responding to her attention seeking, which we do. Her behaviour in the house is better because of it but outside it's still an utter nightmre. Her commands are good (sit down stay come here leave give stand speak roll over wait etc), but although she knows them well and is foot perfect in the house or if you're holding something nice and she's already fixated on that when on a walk, she doesn't respond outside once she fixates on anything else. You can literally shout her name and wave the chicken near her nose- if she has seen and fixated on something, usually another dog, you have nothing, no hope, and it's a matter of grab the lead or collar and get her out of there because she's about to start the barking/snarling. Indoors, though excitable, you can do a lot with her, even take food right out from under her nose with no reaction at all. She accepts being asked to move on without argument if she is in the way. She is not allowed on the furniture and accepts this too. 

I did ask about muzzling her in public but the behaviourist has advised that she would be more stressed and even more badly behaved if she felt she could not defend herself. As I say if any harm of any kind had come from her 'attacks' she'd be muzzled regardless, but she's never even removed a mouthful of hair from another dog- it's a highly vocal and scary performance but it's mostly barging, not teeth. 

I'm really stuck. She's been checked by a vet and is in excellent health. I feel the exercise is a problem- 1 hour a day, even though it's nearly all free running chasing balls, is not enough and is an hour less than my other dog, who is 8 gets from other people alongside me- but as I say no one else will take her out now, unlike the other dog, and I work full time as well as caring for horses. I've considered dog walkers but from searching the web most don't seem to welcome large aggressive looking dogs which pull like trains (haltis, harnesses don't work and I'm looking at a prong collar now). I want to start her in agility which I think she would enjoy and would give her that mental focus, but from reading websites in the area no one would take her as she is so horrendous around other dogs- totally class disruptive on-lead and unpredictable off it! I had ambitions of doing competitive obedience with her but as in many situations she just obeys when she feels like it that's never going to happen either- I can't figure out how people get this immaculate response from their dogs- mine acts like she has ADHD! I used to take her running with me at least four times weekly, which I think helped, but now I've injured my back and can't run, and her excitable behaviour is worse than ever. 

Most frustrating of all I bought her to show and although I have only got her to two shows she has performed incredibly. Best in show first contest. Judges have said she is amazing dog. Last show she spent most of her time barking at the competition but the judge still placed her first, although his comment was it was either place her first or disqualify her for her bad behaviour! This is why she has not been spayed. My faint hope is that we can get her back and settled and get her in the show ring more. That's getting fainter all the time. 

I've tried a calming supplement in her food and calming tablets-I'm not seeing any difference and she's been on this for a month now. 

Any chance she will settle as she gets a bit older? What can I do with her? Got the behavourist back in a couple of weeks but really feeling quite desperate at the moment.

Note- I posted this on another forum elsewhere and was told I needed a GSD expert, which is what I'm looking for here. I was also told not to let her off lead, but I just feel she'd be explosive without the exercise and we only have a tiny back yard. I haven't gone back to the breeder with this issue as I am truthfully, so embarrassed. She believed I'd give her puppy a good home and look at this mess.


----------



## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I know there will be some here that will disagree with me but here goes. I have had this same problem before (but not the attacking part). Instead of removing the dog from the situation your trainer should have had you correct the dog. You need a trainer that understands GSD and will help you correct this problem and not usher the dog away. I feel by doing that you are sending the wrong message to the dog.

Both my males did this and it was not aggression, it was I want my way and want to play with that dog. If as pups they were allowed to meet the other dog it was fine (as long as the other dog was good). But my trainer told me if it continues then it could lead to dog aggression. This is why its needed to be corrected.

Do you know if there is a trainer in your area that can help you? Where are you located?


----------



## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I am no expert, but I can share what I have learned with my dogs. They are not agressive, but reactive toward other dogs. When walking in my neighborhood there are several houses that have dogs that charge the fence barking at us. Over the years it became more of a chore to take the dogs for a walk. I also used to walk at the crack of dawn to avoid any confrontations with loose dogs and hope the lunging dogs were still in thier homes. Before I brought home my 3rd dog last year I was really worried about how they would be and I wanted to avoid mistakes of the past. I went back to obedience group classes and both dogs were fine in class with other dogs. I couldn't understand why they would go balistic outside of class. I know it was my fault that they were lacking in thier social skills. I learned that by correcting them as I may have done in the past helped make them more reactive. 
I learned that getting their focus back to me was the best way to change their behavior. B.A.T. behavioral adjustment training http://ahimsadogtraining.com/handouts/BAT-basics.pdf On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being calm & quiet its easier to keep the dog at 1 than bring him down from a 10. So you find where your dogs behavior is acceptable and keep the dog there and gradually decrease the distance. I started working my dogs individually and I will go out at any time of day and not worry. 
I could walk a hundred miles and my dogs would still want to keep going. I have bad knees so I bicycle, my dogs are normally at a trot or walk.
It would be best if you found a trainer that deals with GSD's. I don't allow my dogs to meet & greet with strange dogs, my trainer told me because you just don't know. A friends dog yes. Not every dog wants doggie friends. I am happy with my dogs when they see another dog they go on with whatever we are doing.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Your dog is reactive and needs to learn with YOU how to react properly instead of OVER reacting. 

Another good resource is


----------



## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

Walking at 5 a.m. to avoid dogs ... letting family "watch" dog while you dispose of poop bag ... when she lunges "I try not to react and just take her away"... she doesn't respond outside "once she fixates" ... you "shout" and "wave chicken" ....

Your dog is reactive. You should walk her in distant proximity to other dogs (close enough to see them, far enough so she doesn't ramp up her "fixation" in 2 seconds, before you have time to react). Keep her in the corner of your eye. Once she sees other dogs approaching and starts to perk ears up, hold tail still, chest out, immediately distract her. Start small (nudge in ribs or on top of head) but by all means progress to full pinch chain correction if necessary so she unequivocally understands that she is to look at you. Immediately REVERSE COURSE and keep correcting until she understands that she is to look at YOU, not the other dogs. Once she gets this and reverts to relaxed posture, ears back, tongue lolling, IMMEDIATELY reward (copious praise, food, etc.). Do this over and over until she associates seeing other dogs with your desire that she look at you, that she remain relaxed, and that she might possibly get a reward. 

No shouting, no waving chicken--you must remain calm and disciplined yourself, so she gets clear signal of what you want. From your description she's an excellent very smart dog and very trainable so she will get it if you are firm and dominant. Do not let anyone who is unprepared to do this hold her while you are out, or she will react again and you will have a set-back.


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I can only comment that you won't be showing her in real AKC shows with that attitude, she will be disqualified from the show ring, and if she is too reactive to other dogs, she will be excused from the show grounds. AKC shows do not allow that kind of behaviour, they are all about the public persective and how they see dog shows, to have a barking, lunging dog on the show grounds will get you booted pretty fast. She will not be allowed to wear a muzzle or pinch collar on the show grounds either.


----------



## Karen_33s (Jun 5, 2011)

*Ditto!*

I'm having the exact same issues with dog aggression. My 1 1/2 year old female is a rescue, so I'm not sure of her previous life other than the fact that she was not socialized at all. I'll be interested to read the replies. Thanks for posting your concerns!


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Did you say she has been best with other dogs when she was off leash?


----------



## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

Really, you need to find a very experienced trainer who know how to work with GSDs. Corrections can either help or hinder the problem, depending on your dog. I have a very reactive/weak nerved GSD, and finding the right trainer was so important. Whatever you do, you don't want to make it worse by either a.)rewarding the dog for reactivity or b.)creating negative associations by correcting the dog at the wrong moment. A good trainer should be able to assess the situation and show you how to handle it. If what your behaviorist says isn't working, it's time to find a new one. I went through 2 trainers before I found one, recommended on this board. I had to drive 2 hours to see him, but he is worth it.

Also, it seems like you're trying your best with the dog, so why not contact the breeder? They may have valuable insights and give you a lot of help, and you don't really have anything to be embarrassed about. If they are unwilling to help, then move on to someone who can.


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

In my experience, there is no excuse for letting your dog act in an aggressive manner in public - or at a dog show - and most of these dogs are just badly behaved dogs. Labeling your dog reactive just makes it worse. 

I'm all for managing this problem by correcting the dog the second the dog even looks like it's going to eyeball another dog and praising as soon as he doesn't. You will always have to be aware of what's going on around you and make sure you don't put your dog in a position of being aggressive. 

I know a lot of dog show people with aggressive dogs that are perfectly capable of walking their dogs through a crowded room without a problem. The dog knows you know he wants to eat the other dogs, but knows you will be all over him if he does, so he will just keep turning his head away from temptation. This also means you keep the other dogs from poking their noses in his butt or face.


----------



## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i would Not do agility with her, that is just going to key her up even more standing there watching the rest of the dogs run the course...........i would get into a structured Obedience class, and i would also correct her for acting like Kujo.......it sounds like a learned rehearsed behavior........i would work on "focus" exercises and get a training collar, prong, or halti you'll have to see which one works best for your individual dog..........if you want to to a type of activity with her at this point i would get into tracking its low keyed and goes along better at this point with keeping her in control.......if you were to enter an agility class with her, things would get out of control in a hurry and right now you don't have the tools and training to keep her in line, it would be totally frustrating..............


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Xenomorphic said:


> She's an extremely active dog and takes all the exercise you can give her and more. Unfortunately the other family members will no longer take her out as she has attacked three other dogs- puppies or nervous dogs- when out. Fortunately there has never been damage done (or she'd be muzzled) as she pushes and growls more than show much interest in biting, but of course it's frightening for everyone involved and very upsetting. I try to exercise her very early in the morning (5.30 am) and in isolated place at night to avoid meeting others, but having been advised that exercise is important for her mental wellbeing, I do still let her off lead. If she has something to focus on, like her ball, she tends to ignore other dogs altogether.
> 
> This is the problem I have, there is just no rhyme or reason to how she responds to other dogs. She wandered off and up to one the other day when I was asking a family member to keep an eye on her so I could dispose of a poop bag, and I was horrifed when I saw her doing that and that my sister was just letting it happen- but with a polite face and bum sniff, the two parted fine. She has been run at by another dog who didn't seem that friendly and watched it closely, but neither moved nor reacted. Then today some poor dog got a mouthful of abuse from her just for walking past. These are dogs of all shapes and sizes and it just baffles me. At first I thought worried owners were setting her off but the owner today was friendly when he saw her, until she began screaming at his poor innocent beagle .
> 
> ...


The first thing you need to do is understand that your dog is dog aggressive and is getting worse - not reactive, AGGRESSIVE! From everything you have written here, you have done nothing to stop this and a lot to make it worse - like letting her run with other dogs and letting her act aggressively toward them.

You also have just about zero control over this dog. She pays attention only when she feels like it and when there's nothing more interesting to do. You let her ignore you and you let her drag you around. This is a seriously untrained and out of control dog that is well on her way to being dangerous.

Of course the calming meds don't work, it's not going to suddenly turn your untrained dog into a well behaved dog - that takes a lot of work, not drugs.

You have got to stop letting this dog off lead. She is going to mangle or kill another dog and it will be all your fault as you know this already and are letting her do it anyway. This is extremely irresponsible behavior on your part. She needs exercise, but it needs to be on leash where she can't hurt anyone. Discover the wonders of a prong collar.

I have zero respect for behaviorists - they seem to want to keep everything all sweetness and light and the dog never has a reliable change in behavior. This dog needs a strong trainer used to dealing with dogs like this and that can guide you in how to manage this.

I am being harsh with you as you have been helplessly throwing your hands up in the air and blaming the dog for her behavior, when, in reality, it's all bad training on your part. The dog most likely had aggressive tendencies to begin with and without proper limits set by you, you made it much worse.

If you can't get a trainer to help you, then give the dog back before something terrible happens and you have to put her down.


----------



## JLOCKHART29 (Aug 23, 2009)

As a breeder on this board who helped me import Auron told me when he was about 10 months: "Auron can't have doggie friends". I had him in, supervised by me, play hour several times a week with dogs picked by me since he was 11 weeks. I also have video of him in Czech eating his brothers over a chicken wing at 8 weeks. Call it dominant or agression he will never be trusted loose at a dog park HOWEVER that doesn't mean I can't walk threw that park. There comes a time with some dogs that positive reinforcement just doesn't cut it.
Auron wears a pinched with fur saver when out not to keep from pulling but for correction. He can glance once at new dog then must focus on me and what we are doing. If he doesn't he gets a pop on the pinch from the lead or if off lead the small tab I keep attached to the pinch as I tell him to "watch" and maybe changed directions. From his Schutzhund training he knows "watch" means stare at my face no If's or But's. Any refusal to do so is direct disobedience on his part and is delt with immediately no matters who is watching. If he looks back to me after the first glance or when he does after correction he of course gets praised.
I am not olds school beat them in the ground. Auron is marker trained and when he gets a correction he doesn't sull or cow down as he knows he screwed up. In fact he comes running when I get his pinch out and comes to a front tail wagging as he knows we are fixing to work or go somewhere. 
As long as I have a tug he would walk across coals doing ob to get it but I can't keep a tug with me everywhere or at a trial. That is where proofing with correction comes in. He knows he is to pay no mind to another dog but unless I enforce that all the "Come on boy don't eat the Toco Bell dog. It's not nice" will do no good!! LOL 
Now if another owner brings there dog into our space or a loose dog does THEY are the ones that will get the correction. Sorry. I control mine you control yours. Was at cook out with big group and a couple kept wanting there little yep yep to play with Auron. I told them know and kindly explained he doesn't play well. Had him in platz position talking to some friends turned 90 degrees and next thing I know they had let there dog start climbing on Auron to which he rolled the little fur ball over about three times and you would have thought he had killed him!!!!LOL Never put a mark on him just showed his dominance.
Sometimes you have to realize what your dogs short comings are and work with and threw them. Just because she doesn't and want be able to play with strange dogs doesn't mean she can't be around them with proper training


----------

