# Did this really happen or is it just an urban legend?



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

After being bashed by Army Wives for saying that something seriously is wrong with a country that allows criminals to sue over the victim for getting bitten in a house where THEY broke into I am trying to find out if this actually happened or not. 

Somebody wrote that people crate their dogs (yeah, yeah i know, the crating thing, once again) because they fear that somebody might break in and sue them over for getting bitten. That is when I said that there is seriously something wrong with a country (any country for that matter) if they'd allow that to happen. 

I've been googling for two hours and couldn't find any news on this case. I've been checking snoopes too but couldn't find anything either. So is it true? Did it happen? Did a burglar get bit by a dog, sued over the owners and won?


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

I don't know about that one, but I heard one where a thief fell through a sky light onto a kitchen knife, sued, and won. That might be an urban legend as well.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Try checking snopes.com: Urban Legends Reference Pages


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Try checking snopes.com: Urban Legends Reference Pages


I couldn't find anything on snopes either. I think I remember that somebody on here talked about that too. In that topic where people said that the beware of a dog sign would be a bad idea since it proofs that your dog is being aggressive and you knew all along.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I've heard one about a burglar that got trapped in the garage, and lived off dog food and pepsi until the owners came home from vacation.. Then sued and won. 

But I think if you were stuck in a garage you could find something to break down a door with?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Lin said:


> I've heard one about a burglar that got trapped in the garage, and lived off dog food and pepsi until the owners came home from vacation.. Then sued and won.
> 
> But I think if you were stuck in a garage you could find something to break down a door with?


that one I found on snopes, it's a legend. 

there is a whole list that came out in 2001 but they are all legends.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I agree with you completely.
In Canada it's illegal to set bear traps on your own property lest a person trespass and get hurt in one. 
Check this out: David Chen trial: Anthony Bennett stays in jail | Posted Toronto | National Post Storeowner gets arrested for chasing down a thief, tying him up and holding him in his van till police showed up... The storeowner also got weapons charges because he had a box cutter in his pocket.
I'm getting soooo sick and tired of everyone having rights to everything except living without the fear of being sued. I miss violence, I'd much rather be punched in the face if I wrong someone than spend the rest of my life being sued or paying out the nose in insurance.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Lin said:


> I've heard one about a burglar that got trapped in the garage, and lived off dog food and pepsi until the owners came home from vacation.. Then sued and won.
> 
> But I think if you were stuck in a garage you could find something to break down a door with?



If you are that stupid to get stuck inside a garage then you really deserve to be beat with a pipe. Most garages have a garage door opener with a controller inside the garage. Even if the garage door is manual it still can be unlocked and opened from the inside.

I really hope this is an UL.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I am not sure if it really happened but I do know that criminals here sue for stupid crap and win! So I can only imagine that yes a criminal can sue you if your dog bites while he is ripping you off.


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## bravo25 (Aug 7, 2010)

like my dad a vietnam vet alwasy said a good old swift ass whooping never did no harm , just taught a good lesson , but now days every one is worried about fellings and hurting them , come one


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## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

i heard one that a robber came in through a house sunroof thing, fell and stabbed himself... ive heard both its true and myth... but talking to my cop buddy, definatly plausible.. i hate people


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The thing is, criminals CAN sue. They can sue over anything really. The prison does not let them wear women's underwear -- lawsuit. Will they win? No, well probably not. But the expense to the person being sued can be extensive. 

If your dog bites someone, he is caught and because this is his umpteenth offense, he has to sit in jail for years, it is actually something for him to do, to work on a lawsuit against you. 

In Ohio, if your dog bites someone when it is being teased, or when the individual is committing a crime, your dog cannot be deemed a dangerous dog and you cannot be held CRIMINALLY negligent. 

But that does not mean the guy can't sue you, because he can. 

It just means that you cannot be sentenced to JAIL for your dog injuring or killing someone on your property when they are committing a crime -- the thing about teasing, is well, I would not stake my dogs' lives on the jury coming back ok on that one. 

I do not know if there is something wrong with our country. I think sometimes our legal system needs an enema. But things have to get beyond rediculous before there is any reform. 

Placing restrictions on someone being able to sue is really difficult. Just because no one ever did it before, does not mean that the situation wasn't really bad.

What I worry about is people leaving dogs loose in cars with the windows well open. Some yayhoo puts his hand in the dog's owner's car and comes away with a bloody stump. He is going to sue. He is going to say he just wanted to pet the dog. Will he win? Will a jury of our peers vote for or against us. What if the jury selection eliminates all dog owners. Not a jury of our peers, but they might. Ya just never know how a jury will go with stuff like that. So I crate my dogs in my car, and hope to God no one is foolish enough to stick their fingers through the grill.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Mrs.K said:


> I couldn't find anything on snopes either. I think I remember that somebody on here talked about that too. In that topic where people said that the beware of a dog sign would be a bad idea since it proofs that your dog is being aggressive and you knew all along.


I don't think it proves it, but it could be a piece of evidence in a case that was being made. I think there is a portion of pet owners out there who will willfully ignore Fluffy's bad behavior. So to build a case that the owner was negligent in taking proper precautions to prevent Fluffy from biting...You sort of have to prove that the owner knew it was a possibility first. 

Not saying it's right, but we follow Florida statute here.... Bad Dog signs.


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

This is why, if you ever have to defend yourself in your own home from an intruder, shoot to kill. Don't want them to be able to sue afterward.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> This is why, if you ever have to defend yourself in your own home from an intruder, shoot to kill. Don't want them to be able to sue afterward.


Hope you cannot be traced to your real name here. Because if you ever do kill an intruder, if their family member could link you to this statement, they could probably sue you for some type of wrongful death as you contemplated killing an intruder to prevent litigation. That is not an appropriate reason to kill someone. They can say, that you could have held him at bay with the weapon until police came, but you chose to kill because you did not want to be bothered with possible lawsuits. 

They may not win, but you will probably have to get a lawyer and all that.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Well anyone can file a lawsuit but that doesn't mean that it won't be thrown out or that they'll win. I actually think a criminal would be pretty stupid to do so because it would be an admission of guilt.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

paulag1955 said:


> Well anyone can file a lawsuit but that doesn't mean that it won't be thrown out or that they'll win. I actually think a criminal would be pretty stupid to do so because it would be an admission of guilt.


 
i have to agree but sadly where we live and the time we live in, the people who are good and dont cause trouble are usually the ones who get into trouble because the trouble makers will do everything they can to win. Nice guys are finishing last more than ever.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It's true: a criminal can sue you for getting bitten after breaking into your house. You do not have the right to hurt someone unless you are in imminent danger. If they were threatening you with physical violence and had the means to do it and you could not get away, then you can hurt them.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Elaine said:


> It's true: a criminal can sue you for getting bitten after breaking into your house. You do not have the right to hurt someone unless you are in imminent danger. If they were threatening you with physical violence and had the means to do it and you could not get away, then you can hurt them.


 
see... this is one of the many reasons why i LOVE colorado. the Make My Day law. Someone comes onto your property with the intent to break in/cause harm, you are legally allowed to shoot them. You are legally allowed to protect yourself on YOUR property. If that means sending your dog after them, fine. far as i'm concerned... everywhere else sucks.


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## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> see... this is one of the many reasons why i LOVE colorado. the Make My Day law. Someone comes onto your property with the intent to break in/cause harm, you are legally allowed to shoot them. You are legally allowed to protect yourself on YOUR property. If that means sending your dog after them, fine. far as i'm concerned... everywhere else sucks.


same here in montana... just cant shoot them in the back if they are trying to run away


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Montana Scout said:


> same here in montana... just cant shoot them in the back if they are trying to run away


sadly its the same in CO. I have no idea what the law is in NC and MD since we're moving to MD. Wish there was more we could do. If someone breaks into my house and my dogs take a chunk out of them, they shouldnt be able to sue me because they were idiots.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

selzer said:


> Hope you cannot be traced to your real name here. Because if you ever do kill an intruder, if their family member could link you to this statement, they could probably sue you for some type of wrongful death as you contemplated killing an intruder to prevent litigation. That is not an appropriate reason to kill someone. They can say, that you could have held him at bay with the weapon until police came, but you chose to kill because you did not want to be bothered with possible lawsuits.
> 
> They may not win, but you will probably have to get a lawyer and all that.


Selzer, I've been taught the same since I can remember. Each time, that info was told to me by cops. Also, if you only wound someone, the argument can be made that you weren't really afraid, otherwise you would have shot to kill. 

There have been cases where people were attacked and in fear for their lives, but tried for a shoulder to just wound them. They ended up charged with attempted murder instead of it being looked at as self-defense. Why? Because if you are afraid someone is going to kill you, why would you not do everything to stop them? 

Any cop or self-defense instructor will tell you, you don't pull a weapon unless you plan to use it.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

> I have no idea what the law is in NC and MD since we're moving to MD.


MD has tough gun laws and very restrictive laws on self-defense. I am not up to date on what the current laws are, but they were real bad a few years ago.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Elaine said:


> It's true: a criminal can sue you for getting bitten after breaking into your house. You do not have the right to hurt someone unless you are in imminent danger. If they were threatening you with physical violence and had the means to do it and you could not get away, then you can hurt them.


In several states...here in Indiana, FL, and there's at least a third - you do not have to retreat from your own home. You can use lethal force to protect the life of yourself and the lives of anyone else with you. If someone breaks into your house, you do not have to attempt to retreat and you do not have to attempt to "hold them at bay." The law assumes that if they are breaking into your house, you can be reasonably believed that they may harm you while in there. You don't have to sit around and wait to see if they will.

If they break in, you are legally allowed to shoot first, ask questions later. Regarding someones earlier comment about shooting to kill to avoid a lawsuit - you should NEVER shoot UNLESS you are shooting to kill. You don't fire warning shots, you don't aim for their knee, arm, etc. If you do, you can then be held criminally liable because you attempted to fire a non-lethal round and "accidently" killed someone. Again - if you pull that trigger, be prepared to be able to testify that you intended to kill that person and the reason is XYZ.

Research laws in your own state. They are different everywhere. I am only speaking for MY state.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Rerun said:


> you should NEVER shoot UNLESS you are shooting to kill. You don't fire warning shots, you don't aim for their knee, arm, etc. If you do, you can then be held criminally liable because you attempted to fire a non-lethal round and "accidently" killed someone. Again - if you pull that trigger, be prepared to be able to testify that you intended to kill that person and the reason is XYZ.
> .


Once upon a time, many years ago, my father was beating the **** out of my mother. The state trooper took one look at my 5'2" black and blue mother, looked at my future step father, and said "If you shoot him, drag him inside". that was Michigan in the 80s. Not sure if the law has changed.

However, in addition to what Rerun said about shoot to kill....a retired police officer once told me that if you are going to shoot then shoot to kill. Not because of a potential lawsuit but because if that person who was physically threatening your life gets back up and has the chance to hurt you, they will.

As far as lawsuits, I think that would vary state to state. If you are in danger then most likely you will win. If you are not in danger, nobody home, and the burglar gets bit...well...who knows what could happen. 

Anyone can sue for anything...it doesn't mean it will ever go to court or they would win.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> This is why, if you ever have to defend yourself in your own home from an intruder, shoot to kill. Don't want them to be able to sue afterward.



then the deceased`s relative will sue you


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

selzer said:


> Hope you cannot be traced to your real name here. Because if you ever do kill an intruder, if their family member could link you to this statement, they could probably sue you for some type of wrongful death as you contemplated killing an intruder to prevent litigation. That is not an appropriate reason to kill someone. They can say, that you could have held him at bay with the weapon until police came, but you chose to kill because you did not want to be bothered with possible lawsuits.
> 
> They may not win, but you will probably have to get a lawyer and all that.


What ever happened to people just being embarrassed that their family member is a criminal?
Funny how North American tourists are warned in certain countries about beggars that grab at tourists while newcomers to North America get warned not to get sued by the resident "beggars".


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Jax's Mom said:


> What ever happened to people just being embarrassed that their family member is a criminal?
> Funny how North American tourists are warned in certain countries about beggars that grab at tourists while newcomers to North America get warned not to get sued by the resident "beggars".


In all honesty, ever since I've been starting research on how life in the US will be like...most of the advise I've received from Americans have been very negative and it didn't make a good picture. In fact it scared me and I got all worked up and I panicked and than some spouses were like "Why do you want to move to a country you don't like?" or "How can you justify taking money from your husband who works for the government?"

Honestly, if all you hear is negative things, like cops shooting dogs, burglars suing you because they got bitten, that you can't find a place to live in, that having dogs in the US causes more trouble than any good. That anyone can sue you over anything, the firefighters are standing by and watch a house burn down with living creatures in it because of rotten 75 bucks... and all those bad news... it will make you panic. 

Of course people are trying to warn you but think of it as selling a product. You do NOT want to promote all the bad things about a product because people get scared a away and won't buy it. The same goes for tourists and newcomers, they want to feel safe and with telling all these negative things they sure don't feel safe. You want to promote the good things about the country, not all the bad stuff that will keep people away, except you want them to stay away.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

In the state of Texas, I can use lethal force to protect me as well as my personal property. I can also use lethal force to protect my neighbor and/or their property. 

If my dog bites a theif on my property, I have to prove that I took every reasonable precaution I could to avoid a bite. Having a sign stating beware of dog does not mean my dog has or will bite. It just means that it could happen, and I'm attempting to avoid said action. 

However - anybody can sue. Any cracker jack lawyer can (and do) accept cases where they think they can make a buck. 

If someone breaks into my home while I am home, I will shoot them dead. I have heard too many news stories where the intruder got the weapon from the home owner and used it to kill their family. I will not warn, I will not hesitate. When they decided to break into my home it is assumed that they will do harm to me and my family, that is enough just cause for me. The world is full of evil people.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Mrs.K said:


> In all honesty, ever since I've been starting research on how life in the US will be like...most of the advise I've received from Americans have been very negative and it didn't make a good picture. In fact it scared me and I got all worked up and I panicked and than some spouses were like "Why do you want to move to a country you don't like?" or "How can you justify taking money from your husband who works for the government?"


The thing is, you can't really paint the U.S. with a broad brush. We are one of the largest, most diverse countries in the world (sure there are larger countries like China and India but they're not as diverse). There are some places here where crime is terrible and you're not allowed to defend yourself and the bad guys run things. There are other places where this is simply not the case. I get up on Sunday morning and check my town's police blotter and it has things like public drunkenness, urinating in public, burglary of a vehicle. . . very very rarely do I see rape, murder, home invasion, etc. And if anything _did_ happen, as a Texan I have the right to defend myself, my home, and my dog with lethal force. As for the people, the ones in my town are warm and friendly and will give you the shirt off their back if you need it. We have big neighborhood bar-b-q's nearly every weekend. The men in my neighborhood are giving their time and money to help restore the old car of a neighbor gentleman who has cancer. 

I know there are other places in the U.S., in Texas, and even in the Dallas area that aren't anything like what I just described. But there are plenty of others that are.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Emoore said:


> The thing is, you can't really paint the U.S. with a broad brush. We are one of the largest, most diverse countries in the world (sure there are larger countries like China and India but they're not as diverse). There are some places here where crime is terrible and you're not allowed to defend yourself and the bad guys run things. There are other places where this is simply not the case. I get up on Sunday morning and check my town's police blotter and it has things like public drunkenness, urinating in public, burglary of a vehicle. . . very very rarely do I see rape, murder, home invasion, etc. And if anything _did_ happen, as a Texan I have the right to defend myself, my home, and my dog with lethal force. As for the people, the ones in my town are warm and friendly and will give you the shirt off their back if you need it. We have big neighborhood bar-b-q's nearly every weekend. The men in my neighborhood are giving their time and money to help restore the old car of a neighbor gentleman who has cancer.
> 
> I know there are other places in the U.S., in Texas, and even in the Dallas area that aren't anything like what I just described. But there are plenty of others that are.


I agree. I am not too sure about California on some of these laws, but I am thinking it varies from county to county.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

And how many people on here have actually been sued? You will mostly only hear about the bad things. People don't blog about "Fine day today. Dogs didn't bite anyone. Nobody is suing us."

The bottom line is that while anyone can sue over anything, most ppl won't. I'm almost 40 years old...never been sued. Doubt I ever will be but it only takes one car accident or one stupid person. The neighbors were sued over a zip line over their pond. They learned to not let anyone use their pond unless it's family. I believe they did win the suit but it was such a hassle, why bother. Not much sense worrying over things you can't control.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> And how many people on here have actually been sued? You will mostly only hear about the bad things. People don't blog about "Fine day today. Dogs didn't bite anyone. Nobody is suing us."


Yes  took $3,000 in legal fees to explain to them that they had no case (they were suing the wrong person!!). Someone thought I owned an online company that I did not. $3,000 I'll never see again. To be honest I felt kind of violated and let down by our legal system.
It seems as though if someone has enough money, they can go around destroying people's lives and be totally onside with the law. Not that $3,000 ruined my life but I could think of much better things to do with $3k... Like burn it for heat or something.
To a lot of people that money is the difference between feeding their family or paying rent.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

And you didn't counter sue to recoup your expenses? Is that an option in Canada? Why didn't they have to prove that you owned the company before filing a lawsuit?


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Lots of messages still to read, but according to this web page Dog Law :: Dog Bites > A Dog Owner's Legal Defenses :: DogLaw.HugPug.com
It depends on state law. 

"In most states, dog owners aren't liable to trespassers who are injured by a dog. But the rules are convoluted and vary significantly from state to state.

Without at least some such implied invitation, someone who ventures onto private property is a trespasser. In one case from Nebraska, a child visiting relatives stuck her hand through a fence to pet the neighbor's dog; she was found to be a trespasser.39 Similarly, a court ruled that a ten-year-old who climbed over a fence to retrieve a ball and was bitten by a dog was a trespasser, and could not sue the dog's owners for his injury.40"


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I know somebody that is sued over by somebody else who has ripped off quite a few trainers and horsefarms over here. It's the way that woman thrives. It turned out that she went from farm to farm, put her horse into training and then just leaves without paying. So the horsetrainer is suing and that lady is counter-suing. 

That same woman also commited fraud with the insurance. She claimed that her horse wasn't able to compete anymore, got around 10k, changed the horses name and acutally competed with him even though he's medically "retired" from competing and she got the insurance money from it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

See? :shrug:

There are crooks and shysters on all continents. The U.S. doesn't have the market cornered on it.


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## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> And you didn't counter sue to recoup your expenses? Is that an option in Canada? Why didn't they have to prove that you owned the company before filing a lawsuit?


yeah we can in small claims court... not sure about the bigger system tho


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Mrs. K:

In the U.S., you can sue anyone for anything, even not making your sandwich with enough mayonnaise at the deli. 

However, a lot depends on where you happen to live. Thank God there are still many parts of the country where juries are very conservative and law and order types who give thieves almost no sympathy. In my part of California, guard dogs are much beloved and such a lawsuit wouldn't get anywhere. But in other areas, the thief might actually walk away with money.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> After being bashed by Army Wives for saying that something seriously is wrong with a country that allows criminals to sue over the victim for getting bitten in a house where THEY broke into I am trying to find out if this actually happened or not.
> 
> Somebody wrote that people crate their dogs (yeah, yeah i know, the crating thing, once again) because they fear that somebody might break in and sue them over for getting bitten. That is when I said that there is seriously something wrong with a country (any country for that matter) if they'd allow that to happen.
> 
> I've been googling for two hours and couldn't find any news on this case. I've been checking snoopes too but couldn't find anything either. So is it true? Did it happen? Did a burglar get bit by a dog, sued over the owners and won?


 
In Michigan, yes.. they could sue, up to about 95-98 area, I am attempting to locate the law that changed that, but I believe it to be the same one that protects a person with a CPL from being sued after protecting themself. But I am drawing a blank on the name right now.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> See? :shrug:
> 
> There are crooks and shysters on all continents. The U.S. doesn't have the market cornered on it.


Yup. There are scumbags everywhere. I've been actually talking to some fellow German dog handlers and these are the experiences from over here. 

If you get attacked by a thief while you are walking your dog and the dog bites the thief (while on leash) you can get sued over unless the dog was defending himself. The dog cannot defend you so you have to say that the dog got attacked.

If somebody breaks into your home (while you are gone) and the intruder gets bit by your dog, he can't sue you. 

If somebody breaks into your home (while you are home) and the intruder gets bit, he can sue you over because you could have prevented the bite.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Not sure about the legend you're talking about, but I know that once, my grandpa was working on a house and when someone broke into it, they fell down the stairs and broke their leg, sued, and won. 
Pretty messed up if you ask me that a burglar can win in that type of situation, period.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> Yup. There are scumbags everywhere. I've been actually talking to some fellow German dog handlers and these are the experiences from over here.
> 
> If you get attacked by a thief while you are walking your dog and the dog bites the thief (while on leash) you can get sued over unless the dog was defending himself. The dog cannot defend you so you have to say that the dog got attacked.
> 
> ...


So if a guy comes into your house while you're chillin' on the couch watchin' TV and points a gun at you, you get in trouble if your dog protects you? Some laws need some changin'....


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Never had anyone tried to sue us, but my mom gets nervous when kids pet our dogs. Because if my dog were cause some sort of injury to the child, the parent would sue us and have our dogs put down.For them being GSDs it can be a scary to think about.

But now a days in the U.S people are sue happy. I have had people tried to get Molly or Tanner to bite them, They just gives them the "Do you think I am that stupid?" look.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Lilie said:


> In the state of Texas, I can use lethal force to protect me as well as my personal property. I can also use lethal force to protect my neighbor and/or their property.
> 
> If my dog bites a theif on my property, I have to prove that I took every reasonable precaution I could to avoid a bite. Having a sign stating beware of dog does not mean my dog has or will bite. It just means that it could happen, and I'm attempting to avoid said action.
> 
> If someone breaks into my home while I am home, I will shoot them dead. I have heard too many news stories where the intruder got the weapon from the home owner and used it to kill their family. I will not warn, I will not hesitate. When they decided to break into my home it is assumed that they will do harm to me and my family, that is enough just cause for me. The world is full of evil people.


 
:thumbup: this is why I will probably never live anywhere but Texas. The only thing Texas doesn't have is legal open carry. Which is kinda weird considering our other gun laws, but whatever.


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## Deuce (Oct 14, 2010)

In a world where everyone is "sue happy" anymore, who really knows?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, in nearly forty two years, no one has ever sued me. 

I once backed out into the path of a vehicle and there was damage, his light was broken in the street, and his car was full of people. He looked at it, and said he could fix it, and did not bother even going after my insurance company.

People are different. Sometimes you have a clear lawsuit, and they choose to simply forgive and go on their way. Sometimes, you can try to make it right so they will not sue, and often they will take what you offer and go with it. Sometimes something crazy happens and someone wants to go after you. 

I guess I have been pretty lucky so far. 

But I am paranoid about my dogs. I figure one dog bite will ruin me. I will lose my homeowner's insurance, and then I will not be covered unless I get rid of my dogs. That will kill me. So if I am a little less willing to socialize my older dogs, it is because I am afraid that someone will do something totally stupid and then I will be ruined.


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## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

I remember seeing a 60 minutes show once upon a time about either a stateor a county in the US where it was COMPULSORY to have a gun in the house. Apparently after the law was passed the incidence if home theft dropped hugely as would-be robber knew they would be entering a loaded house !????

Over here in Cambodia there is no such thing as suing. You just shoot anything that comes over the wall .


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

kidkhmer said:


> I remember seeing a 60 minutes show once upon a time about either a state or a county in the US where it was COMPULSORY to have a gun in the house. Apparently after the law was passed the incidence if home theft dropped hugely as would-be robber knew they would be entering a loaded house !????
> 
> Over here in Cambodia there is no such thing as suing. You just shoot anything that comes over the wall .


That would be Kennesaw, Georgia.


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

This is the same bass ackwards logic as Inmates being allowed to run for Office....Yet they have been stripped of their right to Vote.


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## Dennq (Jun 21, 2010)

If my dogs bite a burglar that will be the least of his worries. My geese aren't as friendly as my dogs.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

Sorry it took so long, this was the law that I believe would protect a homeowner if there is a theft in progress and my dog bites, although there is no mention of a dog attack in the law, a dog can/is considered a weapon when sent on a person.

Castle doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ahazra (Aug 20, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> Honestly, if all you hear is negative things, like cops shooting dogs, burglars suing you because they got bitten, that you can't find a place to live in, that having dogs in the US causes more trouble than any good. That anyone can sue you over anything, the firefighters are standing by and watch a house burn down with living creatures in it because of rotten 75 bucks... and all those bad news... it will make you panic.


Mrs. K.. I can truly understand what you must be contemplating. I moved here to the US some 13 years back and did the same research. In the past 13 years, I've seen 99.997% good and maybe 0.003% negativity. I too read those negative comments, stupid laws, how easy it is for someone to sue you, etc. The bottom line is these type of news make it to the media because it's still rare instance. It happens..but is rare. Hence the media sensationalize them !
In many other countries, these are pretty much everyday affair ..so much so that it doesn't even make it to the 3rd page of their local newspaper.


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## Stogey (Jun 29, 2010)

I can almost guarantee that a dog bite will be the least of some perps troubles breaking into my home. I have two guards on duty at all times, Mr Smith and Mr Wesson !!!


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

I would not be suprised if it were true, there are some states where you can get in trouble for shooting a burglar in your house if you don't give them the chance to flee!


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## CaseysGSD (Oct 15, 2010)

Stogey said:


> I can almost guarantee that a dog bite will be the least of some perps troubles breaking into my home. I have two guards on duty at all times, Mr Smith and Mr Wesson !!!


I'm with you on that one! a lot less chance of doggies getting hurt that way as well!


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Anyone can sue anyone for anything if they feel like it.

It might be better to look into if your state is a Castle state or a Right to retreat state. In a Castle state (mine) if someone comes into my house, when they come in without my permission and are all the way in I have every right to shoot them dead so long as they are not running away I believe. The family could sue, but they probably wouldn't win. In a right to retreat state you have to retreat as far back into the house as you can, tell them you are there and calling the police and then may only use deadly force, or any force, if they continue to come to you.

It might include dogs with it. Castle-dog bites when person is in house, within law..RTR-not within law and easier to sue.

Im sure there are going to be other circumstances surrounding it of course.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I love to live in a country where if you fall from the stairs, you don't sue the place, you are told to watch your steps.


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

I live in WV, we have the Castle Law. Anyone entering my home uninvited need not worry about the dog, my semi-automatic is lots faster.


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## ankittanna87 (Nov 20, 2012)

Lol. That's the reason I like India! U can whack the crap out of the burglar & if he goes to the cops, they whack the crap out of him too! And sueing isn't exactly famous here as the regular murder/kidnapping cases take almost a decade to resolve in court. I shudder at the thought of sueing someone, my grandkids would probably get the money (if at all!!)


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Zombie thread!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> This is why, if you ever have to defend yourself in your own home from an intruder, shoot to kill. Don't want them to be able to sue afterward.


same advice I've been told by every police officer and attorney that I know. 

Well, that and NEVER fire a warning shot. Always shoot to kill. Has nothing to do with not wanting to be sued, really. It's not wanting to be arrested! If you don't shoot to kill, the argument can be made that you really weren't in fear of your life since you just wanted to "scare him away" I'll take my chances that his family will try to sue over defending myself against attempted murder charges any day.

ETA: lol didn't realize until I read a post by me that this was an old thread! oops :help:


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

i know in nj if someone breaks in your house and the dog bites them you can be sued. i've heard of cases being won because they found out the dog was "trained to bite" because of schutzhund/personal protection training, so it was cosidered a weapon and they won. you can't protect yourself in nj lol


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## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

Elaine said:


> It's true: a criminal can sue you for getting bitten after breaking into your house. You do not have the right to hurt someone unless you are in imminent danger. If they were threatening you with physical violence and had the means to do it and you could not get away, then you can hurt them.


 
Different states have different laws. In AL I do not have to retreat. If you are on my property (including my car) I have the right to shoot you if I feel threatened. I only have to FEEL threatened. My self defense instructor told me never only try to wound an intruder. If they are drugged up enough they will continue to come after you. Also, you have a very small window of time if someone is coming towards you. I may be remembering this wrong but I think a person can move 3 yards a second. Not too much time to think about it. And, yes, the criminal and/or their family can sue you. In my state they won't win.


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## FirstTimeGSD (Jul 31, 2012)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> I don't know about that one, but I heard one where a thief fell through a sky light onto a kitchen knife, sued, and won. That might be an urban legend as well.


Did you hear about that in Liar Liar?


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

thank God I live in Texas, where I have the right to protect my family and property.


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

Most of these urban legends come from a few misunderstood instances. Much like the infamous McDonald's coffee case (where the victim had 3rd degree burns including the fabric of her pants _literally fused to her skin_ because McDonald's kept their coffee significantly hotter than industry standard so it would stay "fresher" longer...and she initially only asked them to repay her medical bills, which were hundreds of thousands of dollars, and only when McDonald's refused did she sue...and she was actually awarded more than she requested in damages due to McDonald's negligence...but still the popular conception is "of course coffee is hot, dummy!")...

One of the big things that happens is when someone intentionally booby traps their land to cause injury to trespassers/intruders (by booby trap I mean setting traps that people can't see but will be injured by). You can't do that--and honestly, for good reason. I mean, what if EMTs are called because you're having a heart attack and get hit by your booby traps? However, at least in my state, a dog biting an intruder does not fall under that category (although, in said EMT scenario, you may have to wait for animal control to respond before they'll come in and save you). If someone is breaking into your house and the dog bites them, it will be ruled a justified bite. If a kid is taking a short cut across your unfenced lot and your dog bites them, you might get in trouble, but the bite will still be investigated and depending on the circumstances it may or may not be ruled "justified."

A dog biting the plumber you left the door open for will probably cause you trouble, even though from the dog's perspective it's all the same--but it's your responsibility to control your dog at all times and the dog shouldn't have been loose. A dog biting an unauthorized intruder (say, burglar) is probably not going to cause you trouble.

That said, anyone can file a lawsuit, which is the other big thing that gets people. A burglar could sprain his ankle kicking in your door and sue you; that doesn't mean he'd win. That's the US justice system, and why we have homeowner's and renter's insurance, since you do have to pay to defend yourself. Sensationalist news outlets will pick up on a suit that is filed, and conveniently not report when it is lost or dismissed.

So in short, I don't worry about my dogs potentially biting a burglar.



Dainerra said:


> same advice I've been told by every police officer and attorney that I know.
> 
> Well, that and NEVER fire a warning shot. Always shoot to kill. Has nothing to do with not wanting to be sued, really. It's not wanting to be arrested! If you don't shoot to kill, the argument can be made that you really weren't in fear of your life since you just wanted to "scare him away" I'll take my chances that his family will try to sue over defending myself against attempted murder charges any day.
> 
> ETA: lol didn't realize until I read a post by me that this was an old thread! oops :help:


The way I was always taught, warning shots are dangerous. Where are you shooting? If you live in a remotely residential area, that bullet is going to land somewhere and it could land in an innocent neighbor's head, or ricochet if shot into the floor. Plus yes, you only pull your weapon when you are in fear of your life.

As far as shoot to kill, it's more like shoot the largest mass so you have most chance of making your shot. Head shots, knee shots, whatever are difficult for even skilled marksmen in the heat of the moment. You shoot the torso; it has a good chance of being fatal but that's not necessarily why you do it--all that matters is stopping the person.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The way I look at it is, if it is a really bad guy, and he comes into my house, and my dog bites him, and neutralizes the threat. I will at least be able to argue about it in court. 

Anyhow, go for a jury, Anyone can sue you for anything, but that doesn't mean they will win. If the jury sympathizes with you, and they should, as they live in homes, and do not like the idea of being attacked in their homes, then chances are you will be ok.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

arby665 said:


> u. Also, you have a very small window of time if someone is coming towards you. I may be remembering this wrong but I think a person can move 3 yards a second. Not too much time to think about it. And, yes, the criminal and/or their family can sue you. In my state they won't win.


someone with a knife, 20 feet away, can kill you before you even have a chance to draw a weapon. what my husband was taught in the police academy....


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Chicagocanine said:


> Zombie thread!


That's funny stuff, right there!


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## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

Dainerra said:


> someone with a knife, 20 feet away, can kill you before you even have a chance to draw a weapon. what my husband was taught in the police academy....


 
I can believe that. Which is why you don't shoot at someone hoping to just wound them. You may not get another shot before they get to you. While I hope that I am never in that position, I am prepared to do what I have to do in the event that my home or family is in danger.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

Well, we're not allowed to defend ourselves like that in Canada ... 

Here's an article from 2011:

I bolded the interesting parts!

Ian Thomson moved to a rural homestead in Southwestern Ontario to lead a quiet life investing in a little fixer-upper. Then his neighbour’s chickens began showing up on his property. He warned his neighbour, then killed one of the birds.
The incident began six years of trouble for Mr. Thomson that culminated early one Sunday morning last August when the 53-year-old former mobile-crane operator woke up to the sound of three masked men firebombing his Port Colborne, Ont., home.
“I was horrified,” he said. “I couldn’t believe it. I didn’t know what was happening. I had no idea what was going on.”
So Mr. Thomson, a former firearms instructor, grabbed one of his Smith & Wesson revolvers from his safe, loaded it and headed outside dressed in only his underwear.
“He exited his house and fired his revolver two, maybe three times, we’re not sure. Then these firebombing culprits, they ran off,” said his lawyer, Edward Burlew.
*His surveillance cameras caught the attackers lobbing at least six Molotov cocktails at his house and bombing his doghouse, singeing one of his Siberian Huskies. But when Mr. Thomson handed the video footage to Niagara Regional Police, he found himself charged with careless use of a firearm.*
*The local Crown attorney’s office later laid a charge of pointing a firearm, along with two counts of careless storage of a firearm. The Crown has recommended Mr. Thomson go to jail, his lawyer said.*
His collection of seven guns, five pistols and two rifles was seized, along with his firearms licence. Mr. Thomson said he lives in fear that his attackers will return and has taken to arming himself with a fire extinguisher.
“I don’t have enemies,” said the soft-spoken man, who now studies environmental geosciences full-time at Brock University after being injured in a workplace accident. “I don’t know that many people. I’m a quiet man. I just want to go back to my life and be able to live out my days in relative peace.”
Mr. Thomson’s is the latest in a series of high-profile cases in which people have been charged after defending their homes and businesses against criminals. Central Alberta farmer Brian Knight became a local hero after shooting a thief who was trying to steal his ATV. He pleaded guilty to criminal negligence earlier this month. In October, Toronto shopkeeper David Chen was acquitted of forcible confinement charges after he tied up a repeat shoplifter and demanded he stop raiding his grocery store.
*Their cases are renewing calls for Canada to introduce a version of the “Castle Doctrine” found in many U.S. states, which allows citizens to defend their property with force.*
 “I hear some people, some being police officers, some being Crown attorneys, some being ordinary people, say we don’t want vigilantism, to which I can only give an emphatic pardon me?” Mr. Burlew said. “When you’re under attack, it’s not a vigilante act. Vigilantism talks about vengeance and retribution. This is about saving your life and saving your property.
“I’m sure that will be recognized at trial, but why would a citizen, where it’s so obvious that what he was doing was protecting himself during a continued attack, be put to the expense of a trial? It’s demeaning.”
Canada allows people to claim self-defence for using force, including guns, to protect their life as long as the force is reasonable and they believe they have no other options.
*“If the public are wondering can you run out of your house and [fire a handgun at an intruder], the bottom line is, according to the laws of Canada, no, you can’t,” said Constable Nilan Dave of the Niagara Regional Police Service, which charged Mr. Thomson. “That’s why the courts are there, to give a person an opportunity to explain their actions.”*
Mr. Burlew, a Toronto-area lawyer whose practice mainly consists of firearms-related charges, said he is trying to hire a psychiatrist to prove that Mr. Thomson feared for his life when he grabbed his revolver. A target shooter and hunting-safety instructor, Mr. Thomson had the skill to shoot his attackers if he’d wanted to, Mr. Burlew said, but missed on purpose.
Police said no one was injured in the shooting and the attackers got into a car and sped off. They charged Randy Weaver, 48, of Port Colborne, and Justin Lee, 19, of Welland, with arson in December, alleging the men and a third suspect “intentionally set the home on fire while the homeowner was inside.”
Mr. Thomson’s neighbour, who had received a suspended sentence for uttering threats against Mr. Thomson in 2007, has not been charged in connection with the attack on his house.
Mr. Thomson said he has added extra security to his home after the firebombing and hardly sleeps anymore. The charges, he said, have destroyed him.
“This is just an absolute nightmare, this whole thing,” he said. “People need to know that this is what can happen to you and which side of the victim line do you want to stand on? Lying down dead or in court? That’s the way it seems it has to go.”


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## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

Kyleigh said:


> Well, we're not allowed to defend ourselves like that in Canada ... while you might get acquitted, you're certainly going to have to go to court to prove that you were acting in self-defense ... and even then, you might not win!
> 
> Wow! What a crock of **** !


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I lived in Washington state all of my life and the last two years were **** with obnoxious college kids as neighbors. One night one of the boys were drunk and in my yard. I called the police and then told the kid, through my window he had 60 seconds to get the *bleep* out of my yard before I let the dogs out. When the police arrived, I explained what I had said and asked what the laws were there.

Their answer was that if I had let the dogs out and they bit the kid, he could sue me, however they were not likely to win. 

Normally, I let the dogs out first anyway. The kid was lucky that I heard him out there before I had let them out. I was lucky too, as having heard him helped me to avoid the hassle of going through the red tape of not only a lawsuit, but the fear of having my dogs labeled as dangerous, which is always a possibility when a dog bites, no matter the reason.


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

I had to check. Ohio does have "Castle Law" since 2008. Yay!


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## rangersdad (Sep 20, 2012)

"Castle Doctrine"! Here in NC the law has changed (you used to have to drag the bad guy into the house after you shot him, now you just have to be able to articulate how come you felt he was a threat to you or your family). Voice of experience, "Cops are trained to shoot to kill, not wound. Real life is not the movies and we don't wing'em."


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## Runamuk (Aug 8, 2012)

If you're in your own house and counting on your dog to protect you/bite an intruder your strategy sucks. If your walking your dog and a bad guy trys to harm you and your counting on your dog to protect you (bite), your strategy sucks. 

My GSD is nothing more than my first alert siren going off, warning me that something is wrong. At that point your dog has done his/her job, alerting you and giving more time to react than you would have had without the dog, after that you better have your own plan. I wouldn't want my dog biting anyone, even an intruder, bark, growl and look really mean then get out of my way. If your dog bites someone you may or may not get sued your dog may or may not get hurt or taken away from you, why take that chance? I'm responsible for my safety and my dogs safety, we're a team and I need to do the heavy lifting.

In my house its almost impossible (I think) to get even close to my home without my dog knowing you're there. If he knows the bad guy is there and the bad guy knows the dog Is there and still comes in, my dog won't stand much of a chance biting is a moot point.

I know this was more if a "what if my dog bite an intruder question" I'm just saying I hope my dog never bites anyone, it will never turnout good.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Runamuk said:


> If you're in your own house and counting on your dog to protect you/bite an intruder your strategy sucks. If your walking your dog and a bad guy trys to harm you and your counting on your dog to protect you (bite), your strategy sucks.
> 
> My GSD is nothing more than my first alert siren going off, warning me that something is wrong. At that point your dog has done his/her job, alerting you and giving more time to react than you would have had without the dog, after that you better have your own plan. I wouldn't want my dog biting anyone, even an intruder, bark, growl and look really mean then get out of my way. If your dog bites someone you may or may not get sued your dog may or may not get hurt or taken away from you, why take that chance? I'm responsible for my safety and my dogs safety, we're a team and I need to do the heavy lifting.
> 
> ...


some one breaks into my house is the exact time i would want my gsd, kyra, to bite mall, kill or whatever. if i am working the night shift, i would hope some one in the house ,while she is buying time, dials 911.


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## arby665 (Nov 21, 2012)

A couple about 5 houses down just moved into the neighborhood. I have not met them and I have not met their dog. A couple of days ago I was walking past their house and there was one heck of a commotion going on inside that house. The people were not home and I could hear what sounded like a ferocious dog about to tear the door down. As I kept walking the dog went to a window and moved the blinds so I could see him/her. It turned out to be one big **** GSD. It did not look like it was playing. I'm wondering who in their right mind would ever attempt to try to go into that house? This is what I am hoping to accomplish with my GSD when she is old enough. Minus the slamming against the door. I think I would rather have a gun pointed at me than have a dog coming after me. But...1) I have never had a gun pointed at me. Perhaps I would crap my pants. 2) I have been mauled by a dog.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

But if you kill the burglar you are Ok it seems like.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

wolfy dog said:


> But if you kill the burglar you are Ok it seems like.


I was once told "when only one of you is alive, there is only one version of the story"  Though with all of the forensics, obviously you should be telling the truth.... lol


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

earlier this year, we actually had someone try to get through the doggie door. I was home alone, sleeping. Just me and the dogs. I woke up at 2 dogs flying out of the bedroom at 90MPH. They didn't start barking, though, until they were in the basement where the door is. By the time I got my glasses and downstairs, there wasn't a sign of anyone. 

The officer who showed up later (a friend of DH's) said "what kind of a dumb*** would try to sneak through your door?" 

Idiot broke the frame of my doggie door. Plus left the gate open. Thankfully the dogs have a good recall. And this was in broad daylight. My neighbors weren't home either and she NEVER leaves the house. So they were definitely keeping an eye on the place. I guess that makes them an even bigger idiot...


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> But if you kill the burglar you are Ok it seems like.


if this is directed at me, yes i am fine if the burglar dies .


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

The intruder's family can still sue you for wrongful death and/or whatever else, so like most things on this topic, the whole "if they're dead you can't be sued" thing is also wrong.


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## Runamuk (Aug 8, 2012)

huntergreen said:


> if this is directed at me, yes i am fine if the burglar dies .


I'll second this


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Runamuk said:


> I'll second this


I'll third it, but I live in the "roll over and take it" country.


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