# If you have too Strong a Bond with the Bitch, she might ignore puppies not caring??



## lone Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

Hello from Australia,
I have a Bitch, Shaka, 9 months bi-colour, from a Von Forell Bitch, a famous line of PPD and Guard dogs in Australia. She exhibits all the famous traits of a budding PPD dog IMO, in that She is usually first to respond, Alpha Bitch of my pack of 4, first to bark, first to meet the threat, yet extremely well socialized and has bonded to me personally more than any other pup. 

Now I am warned by the Breeder, that this could work against me. She may bond to me so closely that she will just drop the pups and then want to go off with me. The Breeder claims it made life very difficult with her Bitch Sasha, in that the Breeder had to actually sleep for a week with her Bitch and the pups before the Bitch bonded with the pups and would stay with them. 

Is this a common problem, or does it vary dog to dog? I ask because one of my four rides with me to work and daily events and the Bitch "Shaka" is very well mannered, polite, smart, obedient, no faults and extremely well socialized. However, if I allow her to bond to me closely, when I want to breed her at two years am I making problems for myself? Or is it different dog to dog and more the luck of the draw..???

Regards from Australia


----------



## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Varies dog to dog. Those bred younger seem to have more of a 'trailer park mom' mentality; drop by for feedings, an occasional cleaning, and then back off to cavort elsewhere.
As long as your dog is just pleasantly bonded and not actually suffering from separation anxiety most take to their litters at the first 'eep'. C-sections can make it difficult for some new moms to get a hang of it, but most that I've worked with through rescue who are of appropriate age do quite well.

Ultimately, breeding is not the goal of having a dog. It can be a challenging and rewarding addition to all the other fantastic aspects of owning a GSD, but at the end of the day sacrificing a good strong bond with your dog(s) just to offset the potential for whelping problems is silly. Your bitch will either be a good mom or she wont, and she'll pass that (somewhat) to her pups.


----------



## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

marbury said:


> Varies dog to dog. Those bred younger seem to have more of a 'trailer park mom' mentality; drop by for feedings, an occasional cleaning, and then back off to cavort elsewhere.


Lolololol


----------



## lone Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

marbury said:


> It can be a challenging and rewarding addition to all the other fantastic aspects of owning a GSD, but at the end of the day sacrificing a good strong bond with your dog(s) just to offset the potential for whelping problems is silly. .


 *Thank you for that Marbury, it hits home and makes for a good perspective...* Why this comes about is I have to choose between two larger males as companions daily, or the Bitch Shaka. If any of you are interested, it is an interesting problem I had not anticipated in owning this many GSDs... 

On my 30 acre horse property: I have two four month older Males now 13 months, Black GSDs, good lines, but a problem with separating them. They both have to go, or it leads to jealousy fights if one goes or one gets to stay inside.. Being of equal size and brothers (bought one, the other given to me when it needed a new home but both brothers) they growl and fight if separated as it is jealousy for my attention. 

Look, they get along fine when travelling as a pair and living as a team with me being the Alpha Male... But two in my office and in some travels is a bit too much. It comes down to that the civilized dog in my office and in town is the Bitch Shaka. No where near as intimidating as potentially a PPD, but she is short haired where the Dogs are medium (glamour) coats and the dogs shed a bit more and scare people... 

In a bad area, ortravel interstate with my horses, then the Boys are an undefeatable team.. But round town and day to day common office times and Shaka is far easier to manage... *Any comments or suggestions are welcome. * I intend to take the others some days, but Shaka most days to work..

"Caesar" is more dominant, bigger boned, and may take over as Alpha Male of the two, and it may not be a problem in the future and may be able to separate them...

Best regards from Australia. lone Ranger


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

If a bitch would abandon her puppies because she is too bonded to her humans than something is wrong with her temperament. That mothering instinct should be very strong and if it isn't than the female should never be bred again.

Your other question might be best asked in the behavior/training section of the board.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Two females I've known personally who have been bred and turned out to be very excellent mothers have also had very strong bonds and working relationships with their owner(s). I no longer own a female and do not breed, but if I were looking to buy a puppy I would definitely be put off if a breeder said their dog was not as attentive as a mother because of the bond. GSDs in general have very close bonds. If a female does not make a good mother she should no longer be bred.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Never liked the word "bitch". Mine is a female. OK, back to the thread


----------



## SageDogs (Oct 6, 2013)

Don't insult another persons culture or customs by talking down on their choice of words. If you don't like the word, move on to the next page. We're adults for crying out loud, it's a legitimate term. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Never liked the word "bitch". Mine is a female. OK, back to the thread


This query is in the breeding forum. The term 'bitch' is absolutely correct both here and in the show ring.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

marbury said:


> This query is in the breeding forum. The term 'bitch' is absolutely correct both here and in the show ring.


I know, it is just MHO, nothing offensive. eace:


----------



## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

My friend's lab had puppies and when they were about a week old, we visited, We were sitting in the living room and Plummy (the lab) was in an open x-pen in the master bedroom. We poked our heads in and told her she was a good girl.

So we are sitting there and out of bedroom comes Plum with a pup in her mouth which she lays gently on the carpet in the middle of our group. She proceeds to bring out her entire litter. We think that she just wants to be in the common area with us and that she is an excellent Mom who won't leave her pups. Nope.

Plum moves all the pups into the living room and goes back into the master bedroom where she curls up and goes to sleep. I guess that she was telling us to take care of those pups. We let her rest and re-introduced the pups back to her but gave her more breaks.


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

lol...cute story


----------



## lone Ranger (Nov 29, 2012)

Thank all of you for your comments...

Shaka is the most civilized, short haired Bitch, most affectionate, most personally attentive, easiest to get her feeling hurt if I yell, but overall She is very travel and people friendly. 

The Boys are a good 4" taller, more scary for sure, and they would be my pick to go into hostile or wilderness country. They could easily stand their own against wild dogs or dingos. They just take a bit more care and hassle in civilization, glamour coats shed a little more, and you have constant hassle of them running around marking their territory. 

I guess when I am staying in town, Shaka goes to work. When I am going back out to the horse property, I will mix it up with the Boys, maybe even one at a time. Wolf Caesar is definitely dominant. Wolf Ali, is my "GayWolf" :rofl: in that he gets along better with the old Bitch black and tan Show GSD and Shaka.. 

Thank you for your answers, and for letting me sound out my concerns and work through them. I guess I will alternate them, more Shaka the civilized Bitch for a "Townie".... 

And to the person, note Person, that had a problem with the term Bitch: Look, maybe don't take it personal if you are a Lady or take it to human terms, as we are not relating this to the fugly human term. It is quite an accepted term as in Dog for the male, Bitch for the female... There was no intended offence.. 

Kind regards from the lone Ranger, Out on the Last Frontier doing "Dances with Wolves"...

Side note HighJack: I spent about $20,000 to go in and study the wolves in Yellowstone by Arctic Snowcat and Snowmobile in the dead of winter last January. I wanted to prove some behavioural and dietary and longevity things to myself, with first hand observation and discourse with the Rangers.. In that volcanic caldera in dead of winter in deep snow is about the only place to reliably have a chance to try and get close.. Would it be interesting or appropriate to post my findings, the few accepted findings I now take as facts, being there and getting the answers in confirmation.. Some dietary, some behaviour, anyone interested?


----------



## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I'd be interested in that.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

A " female" of sound temperament should not have this problem, IMO. Maternal instincts should override your bond. For a dog to be so dependent on a human(bond) as to neglect her pups reflects an extremely weak nerved "female".


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I'd be leery of getting a pup from a litter where the bitch neglected 'em & I'll never understand why an experienced breeder would consider using such a bitch another time. Something is seriously awry in a mother lacking maternal drives.


----------

