# HELP - Aggressive Female GSD



## KMachen (Dec 10, 2015)

First and foremost, I blame myself for my dog's behavior. I know that I have failed her as a dog owner and that has played a huge role in her many behavior issues. I have had Sadie since she was 8 weeks old. We did basic obedience thru a local trainer, that was the first time I was shown her aggressiveness towards other dogs. (She had 4 other dogs at home, but they were her pack and there were never fights). We overcame her aggressiveness in class with corrections and she seemed better. I ended up leaving the home I was in with other dogs and it turned into just me and Sadie. I stopped working with her, my mistake number 1. My new husband moved in with me and brought his female Chesapeake Bay retriever with him. They had a minor scuffle once, after that we continued socializing them in small doses until they stopped the madness. They started playing in the yard together, sleeping next to one another with no issue. No fighting inside when brought in for the night. They have been "happily" coexisting in the same yard together for almost 2 months when I noticed Sadie nipping at the other dog when we would pull up to the house. Nothing came of it and it stopped after one nip, so I didn't think much of it. About a week ago, I was outside around 8 PM in the dark talking to my mom. Both of the dogs were in the yard where they could see us. They weren't doing anything, I wasn't watching them so I can't say what happened, but a fight broke out. I could tell this one was different than the previous scuffle and Sadie was causing harm to our other dog. I immediately jumped the fence and tried to get it broken up. Eventually I did and had them separated until my husband came home and we could see if the other dog was injured. She had a minor cut on her eye and her ear, Sadie was unscathed. It was awful. I was terrified, but I knew something had to have set her off for this to have turned into such a fight, but what was it? Both females are intact. Sadie knows her basic commands and she obeys them when both my husband and I administer them. Maggie (the other dog) also knows basic obedience and obeys them well. Sadie is high energy, a little neurotic, has separation anxiety and dog aggressive behavior - all of which I blame myself for. I have failed my dog, and now it is at a point where I feel as if she is unpredictable and my husband and I are both worried that the chances of this happening again are possible and we won't be there or if Sadie gets out and harms another person's dog, God forbid, if Sadie ever hurt a person. Now that I am here, I am having another dog trainer come to the house tomorrow AM to see if he can help. I plan on having Sadie spayed, BUT does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to repair the damage I have done to my wonderful dog. I am desperate and would love advice on ways to help Sadie on my behalf. 
Side Note: before Sadie and I left the home with the 4 other dogs, we had brought in a new dog (totaling 5). Sadie did not react well to the new pack member but we slowly socialized them and things seemed to be fine. After about two weeks in the yard together I came home to the new dog injured. She had been severely bitten multiple times and places, thankfully she survived and fully recovered. That dog was also female and intact. She has now done this twice, where life seems fine and then out of nowhere she attacks. I know I do not see, hear or smell what she does. I am an avid dog lover and want nothing more than a healthy home full of dogs. I would eventually love to rescue dogs and have another pack of 4 or 5 socializing and having a great time, but I have to help Sadie first. Any suggestions are welcome, please don't be hateful as I have already accepted the blame for this. Sadie is going on 4 years old and I want to know if she can be helped or if I have let her go on too long.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Sounds to me like you are going to be in a crate and rotate dynamic with this pair. Keep them seperated. This could probably be managed by monitoring if it were not a "live in" situation. Since they are housemates, I would not trust the two of them loose together.


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## KMachen (Dec 10, 2015)

That is what we are doing now. Sadie stays in a pen during the day while Maggie is in the yard. I rotate them when I get home so Sadie has around 4-5 hours of free time in the yard. 
The dog trainer coming tomorrow did offer some encouragement as we are moving in January and this will be a new environment to both dogs. He thought that since it is new, neutral territory that it may allow for them to be socialized and remove some of the "territory" tension.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

No solution once they have started fighting other than crating and rotating or rehoming one.

I would not even meet with that trainer. This is not territorial aggression, this is same-sex aggression, and it cannot be fixed once it has begun.
A good trainer would know this, and refuse to take your money.
Don't beat yourself up, you did not cause this. Except for leaving two females together, who had previously been in a scuffle.

Females who get along together and get along because of their character, and you can't train away behavior if they are inclined to be aggressive toward one another.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Just to add, 

I had altercations between my female bullmastiffX and 2 other females.(terrier and bullmastiffX) They started it. My dog took 5 bites of each before retaliating. They got a shock though when she did. She didn't want to hurt them. She just doesn't like dogs thinking they can bully,dominate or mount her.

I handled those fights calmy, let the females know fighting was not allowed. I worked a bit on both females as i was minding them sometimes and after me establishing control, no more worries. It is handy my female can fight but doesn't want to. That makes things easier. 

IMO if you are really strict then you can stop even females fighting. 

Discipline and pack structure are the most important things you need to concentrate on. Once you have strength in this area you can stop unwanted aggression.

You do need physical presence and confidence in dog handling as well. Anybody wanting to fix serious issues needs to up there game


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Sunflowers said:


> No solution once they have started fighting other than crating and rotating or rehoming one.
> 
> I would not even meet with that trainer. This is not territorial aggression, this is same-sex aggression, and it cannot be fixed once it has begun.
> A good trainer would know this, and refuse to take your money.
> ...


I have to say, I tend to agree with Sunflowers. I know that I couldn't take the stress of a lifetime of managing so many dogs (if there were only the 2, I would say try to work/train it out) for the rest of Sadie's life. Not fair to her to always be stressed and ready to fight. And REALLY not fair on the other dogs that they spend the all the time on guard that she may come for them, or they forget to pay attention and she does.

For me, playing the crate game 100% wouldn't be an option, specially cause it just takes one small mistake for it to be a huge mess.

Good luck with whatever you decide. And remember to do the best for YOUR DOGS, rather than from your own guilt.


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## KMachen (Dec 10, 2015)

I certainly won't be adding anymore animals to this pack until (if ever) Sadie is under control. I am willing to work with her. The nice thing about where we live now, and where we are moving to, is that we have a lot of space. We have over an acre now and will have 3 acres. Right now she isn't "crated" so to speak but she is in a large pen on the complete opposite side of the home and Maggie is in the yard, out of one another's sight. I would like to think that with 3 acres we could almost segregate them to where they would both have nice room to play and run, and stay separate. I guess we will see
what are your thoughts on having Sadie spayed, will it help? Would it help if they were both spayed?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

My friend has three females and two of them fight. They have to be carefully watched and rotated so the ones that don't get along are never alone. She said they would kill each other if they could and they grew up together. If yours are both Alphas they will contestantly fight for position. If they aren't, Sadie could be fighting to be the Alpha. That won't stop.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Spaying will not help. But I don't think it will hurt either. If she was reactive, it can make that worse. But, this is definitely SSA. Think of it this way, let's say your husband just told you he said it was ok for his high school sweet-heart to move in while she goes to college for the next four years. That probably won't go over good. 

Females are strong and bond closely with their people. They have instinctive desire to remove anything threatening from the den and pups, or their human family. Another bitch is generally a threat UNLESS they fit each other in temperament. If one is a strong leader and the other a strong follower, and there is age between them, you can have multiple females.

But as often as not, female shepherds really do not do well in the same pack setting. A very strong leader (human) can possibly keep all the lines separated in everyone's mind, but bitches can wait for an opportunity, they are sneaky, and they are fast.

Fights tend to be gruesome. Trying to keep two seventy pound bitches intent on killing each other apart is no joke. And coming home to a dead dog, and a dog that needs to be euthanized is not unheard of. 

For most pet owners, crate-rotate is just not an option forever. 

However, your dog is NOT aggressive due to SSA. This does not make her unpredictable. In fact, she is very predictable. Predictably, she will injure and possibly kill another female dog within her pack.

This isn't even really something wrong within her. It doesn't mean she is wired wrong. It means her natural instincts are strong and she is living in a situation that isn't ideal. 

Really, it would be best to rehome one of the dogs, and it might be easier to rehome the dog with fewer problems. 

If you want to keep both dogs, you might want to put up kennels in your basement, garage or outside, and just give each girl separate inside time. During the day, both are kenneled in the yard, or whatever. As long as they are not fence fighting, and my girls will scrap with each other occasionally, and do not fence fight with whoever is kenneled next to them. When one is running around because I am cleaning their area, the dogs will bark, along the gates, but they are not fence fighting. 

It can be done. Training can deal with some of the other problems. I wouldn't bother with training for SSA though.


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## KMachen (Dec 10, 2015)

I decided to go ahead and meet with the trainer because I didn't think it could hurt to work on Sadie's behavior anyways, as well as how I interact with her. He basically pointed out the same things I have noticed with her: boredom, pushy, etc. We have a go forward plan of daily walks (which weren't done before), weekly trips to local stores (Petsmart, Lowe's, Home Depot) for socialization, and daily exercises for her mind and for her obedience to me. He stated that Sadie does not see me as in charge, but sees herself as in charge instead, so it is very difficult to get her to listen to basic commands much less calm her in the middle of a stressful situation (the other female dog). I am working on regaining control of Sadie while maintaining the "crate and rotate" system. Do any of you have suggestions on improving Sadie's obedience? For example, she knows sit, stay, lay down, etc. but if I get her to sit on her bed and tell her to stay while I walk away and even out of sight, it is a matter of seconds before she is up when she can no longer see me. We did this battle close to a dozen times yesterday until I was finally able to complete the tasks I was working on in the other room. I would just hear her collar jingle, know she was up so I would walk back into the room and "force" (walking her back with her facing me) to her bed and command all over again. This is the biggest issue I am trying to resolve: stay when I say stay. come when I say come. leave it when I say leave it. ANY SUGGESTIONS are appreciated. I am also planning on having Sadie spayed. Even if it does not help with her aggression she has severe hip dysplasia and certainly will not be bred. Thank you all for your inputs thus ar!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Staying with the owner out of sight is trained in baby steps,a few seconds at first.Eventually one minute,adding a few more seconds at a time.You want her to be successful so you can return,praise,and release.Like any other command,you practice it for short periods many times.That's a hard one for her,she wants to be with you


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

You build things like "stay" gradually - increase the distance slowly (as in a little more each session) and reward heavily also praise "Good Stay!" 

Same thing with "come" - (but add a land line)

For "leave it" have a trade. Like a tasty treet. 

It all takes time.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

KMachen said:


> Do any of you have suggestions on improving Sadie's obedience? For example, she knows sit, stay, lay down, etc. but *if I get her to sit on her bed and tell her to stay while I walk away and even out of sight, it is a matter of seconds before she is up when she can no longer see me*.


If that's the case, she doesn't actually know 'stay'. I'm not a fan of the 'stay' command to begin with - I think it's rather pointless. If you put the dog in a sit, the dog needs to sit until it's released. Same with down, or anything else you tell the dog to do. Staying in position should be implied and default behaviour until the dog is released or told to do something else.

This is just a question of obedience training. Looks up Michael Ellis' videos to get a feel for his methods (namely, marker training), and train, train, train. Try working on engagement, too. A good trainer will be a big help. The more obedient Sadie becomes, the easier she'll be to control. When your handling & her obedience improves, the dog will learn to look to you for decision making, and will be less likely to start problems with other dogs.


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## KMachen (Dec 10, 2015)

Thank you all! Sadie once did obedience on a regular basis, even a trial or two which she did well at. Unfortunately, I quit working with her so she essentially regressed. I will definitely keep working and hope for improvements. I have already seen a few baby steps in the right direction, but it is nice to know that I am not a failure. I think my frustration comes because I feel like Sadie does know what I am asking of her, but CHOOSES not to obey me. I could be very wrong in that and need to keep it in check, but it is hard not to think it when I have seen her do the right thing many times before! GSD's, have to love them!


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I have no experience with this situation personally, but I have seen it on this forum over and over again that female to female aggression is almost impossible to stop once it starts. It seems that even two females who have grown up together and known each other their whole lives can one day decide that they hate each other and one of them needs to die. If you search this forum, you will find multiple threads about this very issue and often the posters are heartbroken because one of their dogs is dead. I do not say this to be an alarmist, but because I would hate for something like this to happen to you and your dogs. You have been given several warnings, please consider carefully what you do going forward. The safest thing if you do not want to rehome one of them is to keep them completely separated.


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## KMachen (Dec 10, 2015)

They will always remain separate from now on. It isn't ideal, but I won't put a dog's life in danger because it makes my life "easier". My hope is to really just improve Sadie's overall behavior, regain control of her and maybe she will become more peaceful overall. That doesn't mean I will ever leave the two of them alone together, but maybe in the future they can be together under supervision of my husband and I. That all depends on how things progress with Sadie. 
I can't ask my husband to rehome his dog - she did nothing wrong. I could and would rehome Sadie but I know she would have to go to someone with experience in GSD's, and more than likely be the only dog in the home. She also has HD so someone would need to understand that and be prepared for the worst. That seems like a tall order. If that opportunity ever came along or I could find that for her, I would be ok with rehoming her, not because I don't love her, but I genuinely feel that she would be happier with someone who could devote more training time and more attention, being the only dog in the home (She certainly loves attention). I will continue to work with her, I will continue to do my best with her and I definitely won't let the females around one another.


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## Sayan35 (Oct 15, 2015)

There are many training methods to improve Sadies overall behaviour.

However there is only one way, that's the way you feel inside.

Start by analysing your self, am i a strong leader right now.

No guilt, start whatever training you choose fresh with a renewed state of mind.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

KMachen said:


> They will always remain separate from now on. It isn't ideal, but I won't put a dog's life in danger because it makes my life "easier". My hope is to really just improve Sadie's overall behavior, regain control of her and maybe she will become more peaceful overall. That doesn't mean I will ever leave the two of them alone together, but maybe in the future they can be together under supervision of my husband and I. That all depends on how things progress with Sadie.
> I can't ask my husband to rehome his dog - she did nothing wrong. I could and would rehome Sadie but I know she would have to go to someone with experience in GSD's, and more than likely be the only dog in the home. She also has HD so someone would need to understand that and be prepared for the worst. That seems like a tall order. If that opportunity ever came along or I could find that for her, I would be ok with rehoming her, not because I don't love her, but I genuinely feel that she would be happier with someone who could devote more training time and more attention, being the only dog in the home (She certainly loves attention). I will continue to work with her, I will continue to do my best with her and I definitely won't let the females around one another.


It's obvious how much you care about Sadie and about doing the right thing for everyone involved. You certainly have my respect and I would think the respect of everybody who reads this thread, for being willing to do what it takes to keep everyone safe and your refusal to pass along a dog with issues to the inexperenced and ill prepared. Please keep posting, there are others on this forum who are dealing with the same problem and I am sure they will help you any way they can.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I have to say, I tend to agree with Sunflowers. I know that I couldn't take the stress of a lifetime of managing so many dogs (if there were only the 2, I would say try to work/train it out) for the rest of Sadie's life. Not fair to her to always be stressed and ready to fight. And REALLY not fair on the other dogs that they spend the all the time on guard that she may come for them, or they forget to pay attention and she does.
> 
> For me, playing the crate game 100% wouldn't be an option, specially cause it just takes one small mistake for it to be a huge mess.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide. And remember to do the best for YOUR DOGS, rather than from your own guilt.


Add me! Sight unseen the real "issue" has been called!

I'll go futher then the others however and label this "trainer" "Postive Only" they can't help you and you'll be pouring money down a rat hole!Less than 10 percent of trainers can successful rehab "fighting dogs!" The "honest" ones will tell you that!

I got more including helping, you find a "real" ie "Balanced Trainer!" But to better understand where your at ...start here:

Leerburg | Inter-Female Aggression in Dogs


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

KMachen said:


> I think my frustration comes because I feel like Sadie does know what I am asking of her, but CHOOSES not to obey me.


 I could be very wrong in that and need to keep it in check, but it is hard not to think it when I have seen her do the right thing many times before! GSD's, have to love them![/QUOTE]HA HA!!!! Bingo!! You actually chose the correct words! 

And "stumbled" onto a part of the source of your problem! She "Chooses not to obey" because you have not delivered a strong enough "aversive" for failure to comply!" 

Esoteric stuff ...but see this thread here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...599905-aggressive-towards-cat-possessive.html

So a slight tangent here on the Female/Female thing. In Boxers Female/Female aggression is a serious issue big enough that Boxer Rescue policy is a hard "NO!" Yeah there are "always" exceptions and there are owners with multiple females and they don't have problems and I know if a few that did and they put a "hard stop it!"

On Boxerforum there is a "Pro" BTE and she got a very hard time from those of us that did not think this could be solved! And yeah I was leading the "Pack!" 

Upon reflection I realized I was "perhaps" wrong?? And I pm'ed her to say so. On here you just heard MadLab say he also solved tis issue! So "apparently" it is not an issue that is "easily" solved! 

But, what I believe is "control" and if you add a strong enough "aversive" for "noncompliance" you have your solutions! 

So if your good with just keeping them apart?? Then it sounds like your all set??? If you want to dig in with control that would start here:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7378530-post4.html
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7410522-post2.html

It's a lot of links but "The Place Command" and finding a trainer are there. If the dogs are together, use a muzzle and a drag leash (a short leash with no handle to get caught up on furniture) so you can get a handle on the dog and "correct her if needed" the problem dog should not be allowed to free roam, in here crate or wherever or in "Place!" 

And train a "Down and Stay" looks like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaVvwbT7iYw

Non-compliance once trained requires a "correction" for non-compliance, once you make that clear to a dog, they will forget whatever it is they were thinking and concentrate on you!

A sidenote on this one. On a walk a few weeks ago Rocky (off leash) and I stumbled onto a loose "sigh .... Pit" at first he was friendly because he saw only me! When the dog saw Rocky he changed and started to charge!

I told Rocky to stay because "Daddy's got this!" Unlike in the past ... Rocky chose not to stay because this time he wanted a piece of this dog??? 

In not one of my better moves??? I turned my back on the charging Pitt and turned my full attention on Rocky that had to block!! 

It worked out I had "Rocky" "STAY!!!" and the "Pit" apparently decided we were both crazy and split???

But my point is while "Rocky" did, at first fail to stay ... when he realized his mistake he "forgot" about the charging dog and focused on me!

So if the dogs are together a drag leash a muzzle, Down/Stay and Place are all things you can do! Beyond that, a "Balanced Trainer" would still be a good call. And for the record, you can contact Jeff Gellman on FB and ask him to recommend a trainer local to you. 

hope this helps??


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## KMachen (Dec 10, 2015)

I certainly don't think the trainer that came out was beneficial to Sadie or I in the long run, because of the "positive only" approach. Sadie will do EXACTLY what you ask her to when she knows she is getting something out of it (treats, food, outside time, etc.). 
I am contemplating filming some interactions of Sadie with me and getting some inputs. I think it would help with feedback and suggestions on here (not that you all haven't already been helpful). I live in a relatively small town in Texas and from what I can tell, Sadie has visited with each of them, to no avail. I found a guy who seemed promising 4 hours away that does a "board and train" month long program, but it was $2200 and we simply can't afford that. I feel like Sadie needs extensive training and consistency, which is hard for me, gosh I am sure it is hard for everyone. 
What type of punishment/aversion/correction should be used? She has a prong collar but sometimes that doesn't even work and she certainly quickly forgets. I have an e-collar and that is about that same. I don't really have to even shock her anymore I just use the "beeping" sound on it and she knows what comes next so she usually abides. Is that appropriate? The problem with that is that even with that on, there have been times where she is "free-range" in the backyard and I will call her or whatever it may be and that collar means nothing to her. It seems like everything works a little bit and for a short amount of time 
Gosh I sound whiny! I just want her to be better and I know it takes time and I have got to be patient and consistent. Please keep the recommendations, links, advice coming as I find it all very valuable!


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## KMachen (Dec 10, 2015)

Oh this may provide insight into Sadie's VERY high drive behavior - she is a Kraftwerk K9 dog.


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## KMachen (Dec 10, 2015)

I think I just had a mild epiphany after watching Jeff's video. 
Sadie is a strong dog - mentally and physically. Sadie NEEDS strong aversions to correct behavior. I think I have backed off of a prong and backed of the e-collar for fear of perception or even fear of hurting Sadie's feelings (please don't flog me for that one). I stopped walking her on a prong because I wanted her to "just listen" to me. In a land of rainbows and sunshine and unicorns - that would happen. That's not the world we live in and Sadie NEEDS consistent strong aversions to bad behaviors BEFORE she will "get it". I think this is the only way for me to regain control and to improve her overall behavior.


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## Sayan35 (Oct 15, 2015)

KMachen said:


> I think I just had a mild epiphany after watching Jeff's video.
> Sadie is a strong dog - mentally and physically. Sadie NEEDS strong aversions to correct behavior. I think I have backed off of a prong and backed of the e-collar for fear of perception or even fear of hurting Sadie's feelings (please don't flog me for that one). I stopped walking her on a prong because I wanted her to "just listen" to me. In a land of rainbows and sunshine and unicorns - that would happen. That's not the world we live in and Sadie NEEDS consistent strong aversions to bad behaviors BEFORE she will "get it". I think this is the only way for me to regain control and to improve her overall behavior.


Prong, e-collars and techniques are tools it's the way you apply them that matters. They will only take you so far.
When you say 'Sadie NEEDS constistent strong aversions to bad behaviours YOU have to believe it.
For Sadie to change her demeanour you and your husband have to change also.
Sit down relax, think about the way you interacted with Sadie in the past. That obviously did not work for you. No guilt.
Take advice on techniques but above all, find the kind of trainer Sadie needs within your selfs.
Strong dogs listen to the voice within a command not the sound of a command.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

OP your actually much, much better at recognizing situations then you realize! People struggle with "corrections" all the time! A while a "Prong Collar" can take drive out of a dog if used "incorrectly" it can put "drive into a dog!" 

Dogs that live together and are fighting is absolutely the worst of situations and factor in two females and that is about as bad as it gets!

Your instincts as this point are good! Both the E-Collar and the Prong can make a bad situation worst! I would assume that you could use a E-Collar to counter condition a dog but I have no information on doing that online??


I did see Cesar do it once on Cesar 911 but that was "not" with dogs who live together! Seltzer's, advice would be the way most of us would roll! But Madlab and BTE on Boxerforum and a few FB people say it can be "solved!" And they use hard adversives!


Gary Wilker's "Click Treat and Praise" of all things?? Solved fighting Dog issues with a freaking "Bonker??" An absolute rock solid Down and Stay and a "Place Command" will give you control and you can "correct" the dog for breaking those once taught "Red Zone" free! 

You can contact Lou Castle on here and seek his guidance ... that would be this guy:
Home


But you will see there is no information there "specific to your issue??? And Jeff Gellamn has a lot of info on his site (under Free Advise) and again ...no advice specific to your problem??

So your in a "hole!" But control would be the start of a proper solution! Unfortunately, it looks like you missed this opportunity in TX's:

And he won't be back your way until Nov of next year! Maybe a road trip to him is in order?? And I believe the cost to attend is in the 350 to 400 dollar range??

But ... if you can get the down and stay and "place command done" and walk the dogs with a muzzle for awhile it will help.

Use a "Bonker" on leash for untoward behaviour and or add a "Pet Convincer" for corrections it will help??

If you can do those things they maybe bringing a "Balanced Trainer" to your home will be helpful??

Dates and Tickets ? Jeff Gellman's RV Dog Training Tour


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## KMachen (Dec 10, 2015)

I think that is the goal...use what we have and what we know to help her. I backed off of training or even exercising the poor monster (we call her monster sometimes) because I was busy. That is very unfair to her because she certainly needs that, at a minimum! I know that the strong correction tools can be misused and make a bad situation worse, but right now I just want to work on Sadie...well, me and Sadie. I want daily walks, brain games, sit/stays and down/stays, etc. I want to work on rebuilding that first. Then start having my husband join us on walks with his dog. I think just by doing those minimum things, Sadie will overall be a more balanced and happy dog. As I said before, she will never be left alone with the other female, but hopefully we can all happily co-exist together without any more injuries.
Yesterday the monster and I walked with a prong and did some sit/stays and down/stays and it was 1,000,000 times better than they day before without one. I didn't even really have to correct her more than a couple of times!


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## Vega-gurl (Sep 1, 2014)

** Removed comments to a now banned member whose posts were also deleted** 

OP, you should like you are on the right track! You want to positively move forward, and are actively looking for steps, and that is the best starting point. 
If the trainers you are contacting just don't jive with you, maybe check out some books or online tutorials? I bet you local library could have (or could get some) books for you, personally, I really like the "Dog Training for Dummies" book, but searching the 'net might point you in a good direction. Also, Leerburg has some very good videos, but so does place like Youtube and the like, you just have to be very picky about what you watch.


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