# Is this how all schutzhund training works?



## Mwilliams721 (Jan 28, 2015)

When I got my second shep, she was a handful. A trainer told me she was so destructive because she needed a job. I chose schutzhund training. The only one in my area was an hour away. There was only one trainer and he trained all the dogs. He did it one by one. Spending about 20 minutes with each dog. If it wasn't your dog's turn, it had to wait in the car. I'm not sure if schutzhund is only done by a professional trainer or if they help you teach your dog the commands. I stood on the side lines while he worked with my dog for 20 minutes, I got no training on how to practice or what to do next or anything to work on for the next weeks class. Only one dog goes at a time which I understand but it was all the owners standing around handing over our dog for a 20 min session for this one trainer to work with and then us being told to put them away back in the kennel/car. Is this how all clubs work? I wanted something to do with my dog to get her into something we would both hopefully enjoy. But having her wait for 4 hours to be seen for 20 mins and me not even get any training or help seemed like a waste of our time. Did I just have a bad experience with a club in my area or what?! Thanks for the help!
-Megan


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

Megan no that is not normal at most clubs it usually is you and your dog with training director learning the sport. At our club we always work our own dogs in ob and tracking, then have a helper do the protection work.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Schutzhund involves a lot of waiting for your turn. Yes, that's completely normal. I don't think it's absolutely normal for a trainer to handle the dog entirely, but this isn't the first time I've heard of it. If you're uncomfortable or feel like you're not getting enough out of it, voice your concerns to the training director. If they don't offer an explanation that makes you more comfortable, find another club that does.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't know why the trainer would do the obedience portion...they should be teaching you how to handle the dog, as at the end of the day, you'd be the one handling the dog in the trial.

Post your location...there's a chance there are more clubs/training venues around you that you just might not know about. Schutzhund groups have a way of not advertising that well and you'd be amazed how many trainers there might be in your area that you just wouldn't find from a google search.


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## Mwilliams721 (Jan 28, 2015)

I understand the waiting and the one at a time, I just felt like I was going to be paying for my dog to obey someone else. I wanted to be trained also so we could be a team, the dog and I. It was only him training them all and owners sat on the side. Even the experienced dogs were being trained by him and not the their owner. It was weird, no one was doing their own dog no matter how good their dog was. I am moving by the end of this year and have e-mailed an organization in that area, I want to give it another chance. I just was worried it would be the same thing, me sitting with my hands on my face while my dog obeyed someone else's every command. Thank you for all the help! I am in the Tidewater area of Virginia right now!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

That is not the norm. I can see why maybe he didn't have you handle the dog when doing protection(some handlers don't know how to be a post) so the dog is backtied....yet the handler is right next to the dog encouraging him/her.
Handler should always be the one to work the dog in ob and tracking with direction from the trainer.
Where are you moving to? I'm sure people here can direct you to a good club.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I often have students that are not very coordinated, don't grasp the hang of it easily, or have too much dog at the time; when these people ask me what they can go home and practice, I often discourage them and tell them just socialize your dog and wait to next week. This can be frustrating for them, I realize, BUT, NO TRAINING is better than bad training if you are trying to accomplish goals in Sch. It is counter productive to spend most of the twenty minutes trying to undo something that was created at home in practicing, practice doesn't make perfect, but rather perfect/supervised practice makes perfect. Hang in there, things sound right to me.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Having the trainer handling/training all of the dogs is not the norm.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The TD's level of involvement will vary. In each of the places I have trained, my TDs have very rarely taken my leash. For one, my dog is not one that just follows a ball around, he has to have a relationship with someone to work (and if you correct him without having that relationship, there will be problems) and two, I want to learn how to train and handle even if I make some mistakes along the way. Other people feel better handing over the lead for a demonstration before they dive in, it really depends on the person and the dog. I don't think there's any one way.

The waiting is the norm and honestly, 20 minutes for one dog sounds like kind of a long session, but normally you would be helping the others by spotting their obedience, helping with line handling if they want it, setting up equipment, watching a dog on a long down and letting the owner know what it's doing, etc. The last club I trained with was over 2 hours away so I'd be gone from 7am until 5pm or later, but I was never bored or felt like I was just sitting around. Sometimes I would socialize but usually we were talking about dogs, breedings, upcoming trial events, etc.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Well, 10 to 20 minutes on the field and wait in the crate the rest of the time is pretty normal. Usually, though, where I've been people have done most of the work with their own dogs. The rest of us sat on the sidelines and made snide remarks to one another  --- and pointed out to people what we thought they might do better.

There were also occassional members who were excellent in sharing TMI on not dog topics.... 

You might talk to the people on the sidelines about whether or not they handled their own dogs at training; what they saw the trainer doing and why it was being done, etc. Take advantage of the time you are out there one way or another.


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## Mwilliams721 (Jan 28, 2015)

How would you learn to handle the dog if no one is teaching you? If it's just the trainer teaching your dog as you sit on the side, you will not learn anything. Only the dog will by someone else. I guess I wanted a more hands on experience. :/


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Are you talking about protection? Not basic obedience, right?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Is this a club club or a pay-to-train type thing? I would try some other places if it doesn't suit you.


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## Mwilliams721 (Jan 28, 2015)

All of it. I didn't get to take part in any of the three sections. I am specifically talking about the protection part I wanted some hands on with but I didn't get hands on with any three. No one did. It kind of felt like a doggy day care soccor game, if you will. Bring your dog and watch someone else give them commands.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Well, at that point in protection, there really aren't any commands. It would have been more along the lines of your dog being evaluated. It would have been nice if someone would have explained a little better, talked you through what was going on, but if its still something you're interested in, check around and talk to people first. Get a better feel for whats going on.


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## wolfmanusf (Apr 5, 2012)

Judging by your description, it seems a little weird. Did he handle every dog?

Personally, I have taken dogs and worked them at the very beginning and shown the handlers what I think would work. Many times I can tell a lot more about the dog and also will be better able to communicate what needs to happen. Many new handlers also learn by watching versus trying to decipher what I mean and paying attention to their dog. It sounds like there wasn't much communication with you however. When I take the dog, the handler is right there with me and I explain what I'm doing and why. 

I would implore you to possibly visit another club or give this another chance. I know I was very overwhelmed after my first session. Maybe something will click.

Good luck.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

cliffson1 said:


> I often have students that are not very coordinated, don't grasp the hang of it easily, or have too much dog at the time; when these people ask me what they can go home and practice, I often discourage them and tell them just socialize your dog and wait to next week.e.


I had to laugh at your description here - that sounds like me to a T.  My poor trainers must get some comic relief out of watching newbie me flopping around out there with my first GSD ever. But hey, how else do I learn? I'm fortunate to have patient trainers and a forgiving dog, but I know *I'm* the obstacle in titling, not him.

Back to the OP: I wouldn't want the TD handling my dog the entire time either. For me, the point of training is getting out and doing something with my dog together and working as a team. I hope you find another club that's a better fit for you.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The OP did not answer the question of whether the trainer handles " all" the dogs??? I would venture that the trainer doesn't, I will also go out on a limb and say it's possible that much of what he did in the first one or two sessions was about showing you what it should look like using your dog to 1) give you a point of reference, 2( to demonstrate it can be done with your dog......not saying this is only way to do it, but it may be the best way to do it after evaluating your dog and your ability. Either way, if you say he handles everyone's dogs and they all sit and watch, I agree with your concern, if others that started with him are handling their dogs now, you might have that chronic disease in training called wanting to move to fast. Good luck!


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> *Only one dog goes at a time which I understand but it was all the owners standing around handing over our dog for a 20 min session for this one trainer to work with and then us being told to put them away back in the kennel/car.*


Hey Cliff! This is from the OP's first post...


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Yes, I would find that weird, if it's accurate.


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## 702Rommel (Dec 20, 2014)

Strange, however I live in an area which I can't even find a "club" so consider that.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

For a SchH club... well, that doesn't fit what a club is really meant to be, as people who gater to share a hobby, a sport or whatever they like.

On the other hand it isn't totally unheard either, specially for Show Line people who doesn't really do SchH, but want the dogs to be Köered and they just pay a guy to train the dog for them. The trainer himself presents the dog at the trial/körung, the dog gets the stamp on the pedigree and the owner is basically the dog's chauffer.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

Catu said:


> On the other hand it isn't totally unheard either, specially for Show Line people who doesn't really do SchH, but want the dogs to be Köered and they just pay a guy to train the dog for them. The trainer himself presents the dog at the trial/körung, the dog gets the stamp on the pedigree and the owner is basically the dog's chauffer.


This makes sense, however I do think trainers should let owners handle the dog themselves, UNLESS the owners explicitly request the trainer to train and title the dog for them. It is rather impolite to assume all owners want their dogs handled by him.

Also, I do believe getting someone to train and title your dog is more expensive than just having the trainer do all the helper work while teaching you how to go through the trials. OP, what kind of schutzhund course are you paying for???


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