# Finally seeking professional help for dog aggression



## Keeno Beano (Jul 19, 2014)

Hi everyone. I am looking into getting professional help from a dog trainer for Keeno's dog aggression. I have sent an email to a highly recommended dog trainer in Ottawa, Ontario. I am waiting for an appointment for an evaluation to see what to do with this behavior. This dog is exhausting. He is so incredibly intelligent but hard to live with. He does not have an off switch. We exercise him til he seems tired but within a couple of minutes he is ready again. The dog aggression is the real problem though. I am always looking when we are out for other dogs coming our way. I have never had to deal with a loose dog coming at hi yet and that is a situation I dread so serious training is in his future. Wish us luck!!!:help::gsdhead:


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Keeno Beano said:


> Hi everyone. I am looking into getting professional help from a dog trainer for Keeno's dog aggression. I have sent an email to a highly recommended dog trainer in Ottawa, Ontario. I am waiting for an appointment for an evaluation to see what to do with this behavior. This dog is exhausting. He is so incredibly intelligent but hard to live with. He does not have an off switch. We exercise him til he seems tired but within a couple of minutes he is ready again. The dog aggression is the real problem though. I am always looking when we are out for other dogs coming our way. I have never had to deal with a loose dog coming at hi yet and that is a situation I dread so serious training is in his future. Wish us luck!!!:help::gsdhead:



I'm dealing with the same thing, and I'm also in Ottawa 

I contacted two incredible trainers, and decided to go with Kim Cooper at Best Friends Dog Training
Best Friends Dog Training » Kim Cooper

We had an hour long appointment with her and she evaluated our dog and gave us a lesson plan. Unfortunately, she does not do At Home training sessions, which would be really beneficial for us.

The second trainer is Cheryl Smith. Her consultation is more expensive, but also a lot longer. 
Forever Friends Dog Training - OUR STAFF

Let me know how it goes! I'm always looking for new ways to help my crazy dog.


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## Keeno Beano (Jul 19, 2014)

Hi there. I am going to go to Canadian Canine Training Academy in Bells Corners for the evaluation.:help:


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Keeno Beano said:


> Hi there. I am going to go to Canadian Canine Training Academy in Bells Corners for the evaluation.:help:


I forgot about them! We had a girl come to us for a free evaluation as well. The first thing she wanted to do was slap a prong collar on him, which I wasn't fond of.

I have no issues with using a prong, and I do own one, but I didn't want that to be her very first step without her even trying to see my dog's reactivity and fear. 

She quoted us $800 for an intense 8 week lesson plan, or $1500 for a 2 week stay at her "boot camp". This was too much money for us, so we didn't go with either option.


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## Keeno Beano (Jul 19, 2014)

I have an appointment for Keeno's assessment on Aug. 13. Does anyone have an opinion on the dog staying with the trainer for two weeks? I would really appreciate the input.:help: :gsdhead::fingerscrossed:


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

PoukieBear said:


> I forgot about them! We had a girl come to us for a free evaluation as well. The first thing she wanted to do was slap a prong collar on him, which I wasn't fond of.
> 
> I have no issues with using a prong, and I do own one, but I didn't want that to be her very first step without her even trying to see my dog's reactivity and fear.



Maybe you should let a professional do what a professional needs to do to fix your dog instead of worrying about your "feelings."


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## Keeno Beano (Jul 19, 2014)

What would you recommend Bailiff?:wild:


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Even if a dogs reactivity is fear based it is still punishable. You're not punishing fear youre just punishing the reactivity. Once the reactivity is gone then you can counter condition and it is done. It is a very quick process when done correctly.


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## Keeno Beano (Jul 19, 2014)

Before he came to live with us he was given to the police for three months. They trained him but returned him saying he had a small crack in an elbow and would possibly not be able to work a full shift everyday. I have no way of knowing if he was trained to be aggressive to other dogs with the police training.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

They wouldn't have trained that. He was maybe born with a little edge genetically and combined with either lack of socialization or some bad experiences as a puppy with other dogs maybe that caused it. Maybe he learned it because he was allowed to fence fight. It doesn't matter why it happened. The fix is the same. Weaken the behavior to elimination and then counter condition. Either that or manage it and just keep him away from other dogs for life.


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## Keeno Beano (Jul 19, 2014)

Keeno was raised with no rules and full freedom in the country. He did anything he wanted. He was raised with a Tosa Inu/mastiff that was the boss. She was an intact female who he bred with finally. All this before he came to live with us. I do not want to keep him away from other dogs as we would like to take him out with us. The evaluation should help I hope. The trainer is very strict and has lots of experience with the working line German Shepherds. Keeno is a very loving dog.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The dog has one issue. It can be fixed to at least manageable to where the dog can be around other leashed dogs and still behave. It may not be possible to get the dog to love and accept other dogs as friends but it is definitely feasible for the dog to at least tolerate them nearby.

As long as the trainer plans on using aversive control you should be fine.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

Keeno Beano said:


> I have an appointment for Keeno's assessment on Aug. 13. Does anyone have an opinion on the dog staying with the trainer for two weeks? I would really appreciate the input.:help: :gsdhead::fingerscrossed:


It's been successfully done with experienced trainers, provided you also keep up with the trainer's training afterwards. 

One thing the trainer can do for me that I can't is exposure/access to different dogs that are under the trainer's control and the ability to stay calm and deliver clear messages to the dog. When I'm handling my dog, I pull my dog much quicker away (a reflex for fear of him jumping the other dogs based my own past bad experience and lack of dog training experience / confidence) and doesn't allow him to learn how to engage other dogs properly and when he isn't doing it right to give him a chance to fix it before pulling him away. My trainer repeatedly tells me to not just pull away whenever that happens but I can't help myself! She had to take the leash from me to do it herself. 

A board and train I think can speed up your dog's learning process. You'd have to catch up with the training when he comes home.


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## Keeno Beano (Jul 19, 2014)

I think I am heading towards the eight week intensive private lessons at his training facility. Randy does not do the two week boarding training so he would have one of his trainers train Keeno. I am not keen on someone else as he was the one who was recommended to me. I will meet him on the 13th and see what is what. It is only a 20 minute evaluation though. I find that a short period of time.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Even if a dogs reactivity is fear based it is still punishable. You're not punishing fear youre just punishing the reactivity. Once the reactivity is gone then you can counter condition and it is done. It is a very quick process when done correctly.



I took my almost 5 month puppy who had dog aggression to an experienced Schutzhund/private dog trainer (2 hours to get there) after a recommendation from a forum member.

After watching what the dog did after I dropped the leash, after the trainer did a few interactions with the dog, and after watching my dog's response to other dogs, he put a prong on him and corrected him a few times with it. 

I know that some people would be aghast at the force of his corrections. I knew the guy was excellent--his timing was INCREDIBLE. He looked away from the dog while doing some corrections. (I assume to not threaten a puppy.)

After 30 years with Sch., I knew he understood aggression. I came to him for help--I knew I was in over my head. * I was there to learn--not to judge.*

He clearly laid out what I should do and I did it--even though 2 golden retriever people were condescending in public. In one week my dog was 90% better.

I have a wonderful dog now--way, way better. We just came back form the park where he sat off the trail while dogs went by. I jack potted him with treats while he sat alert, but calm. No hackles, no sounds, no outward response.

NOW I can get his attention if there is a negative response and do sits and downs or tug to distract. I give treats or play tug for good behavior.

*I cannot afford an out of control, reactive dog.* That is the bottom line. Tools used properly are a very good thing. If you find a qualified, good trainer trust him or her. My trainer is very fair to the dog.


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

When you do the two week board and train, it is true that they may be able to get your dog to about where you want them to be with obedience and aggression levels for human or dogs.

BUT, _you_ didn't learn anything. And if you aren't taught properly, than all the work your dog had to go through, will be put to nothing- because you will continue on the training. And a 4 hour long session after your dog is "fixed" isn't going to cut it. Because its also about dedication, which you learn and have structure for when you do 5-8 week or more long period with a trainer. 

I am glad i wen't with the choice of working with a trainer. It cost me about 700 and its going to be 4-5 sessions, but i get taught and Zelda at the same time, we have a week to work with it and come back with questions and learn more. It's much much better. And then you get to see how your dog is ACTUALLY treated not just by word of mouth. 

At the end of the day, i don't think i could have done a 2 week board and train, i was really thinking about it. And i am glad it didn't work out. Because this is much better..

Here is my thread. 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/476881-first-session-e-collar-trainer-today-3-hours.html


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## Keeno Beano (Jul 19, 2014)

Yes I think I am making the right decision for Keeno and I as I need training also. It will cost $800.00 for the 8 weeks. I now feel hopeful as I have received great advice and opinions from the forum. I thank you all for helping Keeno and I.:happyboogie::doggieplayball:


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Decided last week after my dog barked at a 5 yr old running up to see him. Decided to go with a behaviorist whos also a trainer. Certified and works with the court system re: dog bites. Also does Schutzhund training and service dog training. First thing he did was put us on a pychological demotion program, in other words serious NILF , a two week vacation from all triggers and TTouch. Also wrote us out a program defining specific action what to do in situations in the future. He feels board and train is not the way to go in these situations and can make the dog worse.


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## Marilyn.Lambert (Jul 29, 2014)

VTGirlT said:


> When you do the two week board and train, it is true that they may be able to get your dog to about where you want them to be with obedience and aggression levels for human or dogs.
> 
> BUT, _you_ didn't learn anything. And if you aren't taught properly, than all the work your dog had to go through, will be put to nothing- because you will continue on the training. And a 4 hour long session after your dog is "fixed" isn't going to cut it. Because its also about dedication, which you learn and have structure for when you do 5-8 week or more long period with a trainer.
> 
> ...


This is so true; I used to train dogs for a living and I can't stress enough how important the owners participation is in the process. I can get a dog to behave quick, but getting him to listen to the owner is not that easy. Dogs know who they can push around, and who they can't. To many of my clients wanted me to take the dog away, fix it and bring it back. I only work with the most aggressive dogs now; owners that have run out of options with treat trainers. They are the only ones that are actually desperate enough to listen, and do the work to get their dogs back on track.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

That is unfortunate that some of you have bad experiences with board and train. The good trainers will train you after the board and train so it's not that different than normal training where you do have to train as well just with the added bonus of a board & train prior to it. For example - if you needed 6 lessons, you'll still get 6 (and maybe less since the dog is already worked on) after the board & train. 

If you look at board & train as in the dog gets boarded and trained but you don't train - then I agree that is not a good plan, which is why I caveated in my post that the owner himself must be trained as well. It's no different than a person who goes to training but doesn't follow up outside of training sessions. The follow up is important, regardless of board & train or not.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I think my dog would do better, if I was the one who spent 8 days boarded and trained.


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## Marilyn.Lambert (Jul 29, 2014)

Bear L said:


> That is unfortunate that some of you have bad experiences with board and train. The good trainers will train you after the board and train so it's not that different than normal training where you do have to train as well just with the added bonus of a board & train prior to it. For example - if you needed 6 lessons, you'll still get 6 (and maybe less since the dog is already worked on) after the board & train.
> 
> If you look at board & train as in the dog gets boarded and trained but you don't train - then I agree that is not a good plan, which is why I caveated in my post that the owner himself must be trained as well. It's no different than a person who goes to training but doesn't follow up outside of training sessions. The follow up is important, regardless of board & train or not.




I respect your opinion and I agree with you for the most part. I suppose it has to do with how in depth the training goes after the dog is worked initially. 
When I work with people I work with them in their home, I like to see the natural behavior between the owner and the dog. Often times I can find the cause for the problems just through watching the small interactions that take place between them. These are things that I would not have known were taking place , had I not been working with them together. The dog is never the problem, therefore there's no reason that the dog should receive the majority of the training. Humans cause problems in their dogs, and when the human gets taught how to interact with their dog, the relationship heals naturally between them.The only time I work with a dog alone is when the dog is so out of control that the owners presence just makes the dog act out worse. Once I have regained control of the dog, I bring the owners back and have them work with the dog with me. I really think a hands on experience is better for teaching the owners real world control over their dog. This is all just my humble opinion of course and I respect everyone's input


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## Rexy (Jun 4, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Even if a dogs reactivity is fear based it is still punishable. You're not punishing fear youre just punishing the reactivity. Once the reactivity is gone then you can counter condition and it is done. It is a very quick process when done correctly.


 Correct, good advice


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Keeno, how did the training go?


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