# Rough training week and starting to think the unthinkable



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

So this week has been a real bad week for training. I have taken many steps back and it's looking like Mina might not be capable of competeing in protection sports. She is 15 months and still has a lot of maturing to do but it's becoming apparent that this may not be her thing. It is very sad as I have put so much time, blood, sweat and tears into this dog. She is a byb dog and I never expected to go far with her but club level and to learn with would have been fun. The problem is that I have gotten way more involved in sport than I ever though I would. She was doing okay with IPO but we recently started SDA (I moved and the SDA group is very well known). They have pointed out many issues they see with her and said they don't think she will ever make it. I am faced with the desicion to either keep trying to get her there or re-home her and start with a dog/puppy that was bred for this stuff. It truly breaks my heart because I love this dog so much. It seems unfair to her since I didn't get her for this but fell into it. I have said that she is my heart dog. I'm just really starting to wonder if it's going to be worth the time and money to keep investing in her to possibly get no titles. I keep telling myself that if I keep working her I will learn a great deal and it will make me so much better for my nex one but..... I don't know. Not sure what I really want out of this thread but just wanted to get it out. Thanks


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

If she is your heart dog, and you love her, why can't she just be a pet? How can you rehome a dog you say you love just because she can't get you titles?


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## PuppyKono (Jun 30, 2012)

Yes you could keep her as pet if it doesnt work out (you could still do the training and maybe she will get better and get another pup that was bred for it. It would be sad to lose a heart dog  and the puppy would be confused too.

I got Kono as a pet and then fell into IPO and then found out all the faults she has but I think she would do great with practice and time so Im sticking with it C:


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

how lame is that. your dog isn't doing well with this particular
event so you'll rehome her. if your dog isn't doing well with
this particular event stop doing it. do something else and accept
the fact she reached her limit for this particular event.



mycobraracr said:


> So this week has been a real bad week for training. I have taken many steps back and it's looking like Mina might not be capable of competeing in protection sports. She is 15 months and still has a lot of maturing to do but it's becoming apparent that this may not be her thing. It is very sad as I have put so much time, blood, sweat and tears into this dog. She is a byb dog and I never expected to go far with her but club level and to learn with would have been fun. The problem is that I have gotten way more involved in sport than I ever though I would. She was doing okay with IPO but we recently started SDA (I moved and the SDA group is very well known). They have pointed out many issues they see with her and said they don't think she will ever make it.
> 
> >>>> I am faced with the desicion to either keep trying to get her there or re-home her and start with a dog/puppy that was bred for this stuff.<<<<
> 
> ...


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## 0pusX (Jul 21, 2012)

I'll take her. She will be a family pet, no need for her to participate in something she isn't cut out for.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

When you submitted this thread you knew that nobody would support you right? If you love your dog you don't give her up.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

I am going to play the devil's advocate here and look at this from a different perspective. Plenty of folks who compete dogs and horses, (I am both familiar with both) rehome their animals when they no longer fit their competitive goals. I myself have sold (rehomed sounds nicer) several horses as they were not working out. I always made sure they got a good home. And we still go visit. I know of many border collie people who trial...if a dog is not into sheep, they may rehome it to an agility home and so-on. Sometimes dogs dont work out for whatever reason.

If you are a conscientious owner, and the dog can find a new home with someone who loves her for what she is..then why not? 

Personally, I dont think I would ever rehome a dog *just* for competetive reasons, because one, I have room for more..(lol) and two, I get too attachted.

Just some food for thought..situations always warrent thinking from both sides.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Angel.

Didn't you just get another female Heidi in December?? Why not keep Mina and do something "else" with her, like obed/rally/tracking? 

While I also agree all dogs deserve a good home and if they don't pan out they are often times better off in a different home... I also agree I could never rehome a dog that was especially my "heart" dog because they weren't cut out to do what I never intended them to do in the first place. Especially to get another dog


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

oh wow!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Onyx wasn't cut out for it either. I wouldn't part with Onyx because she washed out. 
Horses are a bit different compared to dogs...way more expensive to feed and keep! 
So I can understand rehoming a horse...but dogs are usually a companion first, and the sport is done because we enjoy the dogs company and want to do things for the bonding time. 
What if your dog was injured, would you rehome because it could no longer be active? I know a few people right now that have had to quit training due to physical issues with their dogs. 

To each his own, I am not one that tends to go through dogs. 
I know a few people that have changed up their packs a few times in the past couple years. I really don't understand it....but whatever.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

When I got hooked on the sport, I had a big black and silver female from a notorious local BYB who mixed German show lines into old American black and silvers...she loved the work - trained her to sch3 level routine....she did not love the stick hits.....you could see her stop and think - Hey! I am doing everything right - quit that! So I never titled her and got another dog, then another who were genetically suited for the work...took both to Sch3 and all three to CDs....Just because your dog won't do PSA work is no reason to get rid of her, do OB or agility...get another pup that is suited for IPO/PSA and cross train her too.....

While there are people who do have dogs purely to be competitive (and horses too) for most people, it is about enjoying your dogs and working with them....

Lee


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm very stuck on the fact that a title is more important to you then the dog That is so sad, for both you and the dog.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I can't even fathom the OP's intent.

Would you re-home your fourth grader because they couldn't do fractions very well?


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

This is very common in the sport world. The thing is, if OP keeps her as a pet and gets a puppy bred for this work, most of the OPs time and attention will be spent on the new dog. Which isn't fair to the pet. I know a lot of people who re home if the dog washes out. You need to talk to your club where you won't be judged with whatever decision you make. Here isn't the place for it. 


test test test


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Capone22 said:


> This is very common in the sport world. The thing is, if OP keeps her as a pet and gets a puppy bred for this work, most of the OPs time and attention will be spent on the new dog. Which isn't fair to the pet. I know a lot of people who re home if the dog washes out. You need to talk to your club where you won't be judged with whatever decision you make. Here isn't the place for it.
> 
> 
> test test test


The Sport World? The OP hasn't been in the sport world long enough, lets talk about the real world. The OP's exact words were.... _She is a byb dog and I never expected to go far with her but club level and to learn with would have been fun_ and now its the dogs fault because the OP has chosen the sport over the dog?? To each its own


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

If you can honestly contemplate rehoming her because she doesn't suit your new hobby, she's _not _your heart dog. Frankly, I think she deserves an owner who loves her just for the wonderful dog she is and will find things to do *that bring out the best in the dog* -- instead of being disappointed in her when she tries her best to do something she's just not cut out to do. You aren't that home. 

Please be honest here: you love your new hobby and sport friends more than you love that dog. You seem to be thinking of her as a tool that doesn't do what you need for your hobby, so you want to switch her out for a different tool. That totally sucks for her. But don't pretend that "really love her" -- she's "your heart dog." I don't think that's not honest, based on this post.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Magwart said:


> If you can honestly contemplate rehoming her because she doesn't suit your new hobby, she's _not _your heart dog. Frankly, I think she deserves an owner who loves her just for the wonderful dog she is and will find things to do *that bring out the best in the dog* -- instead of being disappointed in her when she tries her best to do something she's just not cut out to do. You aren't that home.
> 
> Please be honest here: you love your new hobby and sport friends more than you love that dog. You seem to be thinking of her as a tool that doesn't do what you need for your hobby, so you want to switch her out for a different tool. That totally sucks for her. But don't pretend that "really love her" -- she's "your heart dog." I don't think that's not honest, based on this post.


:thumbup:


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Dogs are rehomed all the time for all kinds of reasons. Its just a dogs life I guess. IPO is supposed to be a screening tool. If the dog cannot excel in the subject, no sense in forcing it to continue. I see no problem with the OPs thought process. A dog is a long term financial obligation. If he wants to dedicate his time in money towards IPO dogs, then rehoming would be a fair option. Maybe there is another home out there that has other interests and will be able to share a different kind of life with the dog.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Both of my dogs washed out in SchH. I tried for 2 solid years to accomplish something there before I finally looked at it from the dogs point of view. Sure they were thrilled to go every week, but they weren't having much fun. So I changed directions, and looked into Dock Diving. The three of us had a blast. I changed MY interest so my dogs could do something well...to build their confidence and our bond. But I did it because they truly have my heart.

SO I have to agree with Magwart here....


> Please be honest here: you love your new hobby and sport friends more than you love that dog. You seem to be thinking of her as a tool that doesn't do what you need for your hobby, so you want to switch her out for a different tool. That totally sucks for her. But don't pretend that "really love her" -- she's "your heart dog." I don't think that's not honest, based on this post.


 If she was your heart dog, there would be no question.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am not going to sit in judgement of you. I have seen this is common with working dogs and it takes a lot of time and energy to work with one dog...often to the detriment of the other...if you don't have the time, energy, and desire to have her as a beloved pet...then it would be better for all to find the place where she can be.

I am assuming you are talking about finding the perfect home, offering to take her back if it does not work out, etc. and keeping up with her - not just handing her off to a stranger. I feel there should be a commitment to ensure she is placed in the best situation for her.

I would be harsh on you if you were pawning off a dog with health problems or an old dog who had been a family member for many years to make room for a new one. I have an old retired dog who soaks up food, vet bills, and love...he would never go anywhere but when I got Beau-the breeder knew if he did not work out, I would find him a pet home.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Woah woah woah. Back up here. While I agree with most of the posts, I see people discussing how working homes, or breeders, or show homes and breeders, drop dogs all the time for a better dog to do what they want, and it's not bashed. That's what this person is doing, the dog isn't making the cut, they want one who will because they want to get into the sport with the right one. 

If this person can't handle two dogs, the working dog they want and this girl as a housedog/pet, and they want to find a home where the dog will be happy and won't be asked more than she is capable of, and then acquire the right dog for them, that is up to them. 

I doubt the dog is going to get dropped on the first craigstlister to say "Yo gimme dat dog". I don't think the OP is stupid, and I think they will do the very best for the dog - rehoming to someone who can give her the life she would be happier and more fitting for. And I'm sure anyone she'd consider, just going off of her obvious love for the dog, would have to really have proven themselves worthy of the dog. Maybe she can get a home doing a sport she'd fully enjoy and immerse herself in.

What different is there from the dogs' point of view from this dog, or a long-term foster dog? They both get super attached to their owner, they both get new owners, they both get attached to those new owners and live their life out. Different reasons behind the rehoming, but all I care about it the effect on the dog. If this was a dog they'd had for ten years and are going "Y'know.. she's too old to really compete anymore, and I Want a new dog." I think that's really unfair to the dog, to cause upset near the end of her life because she isn't good enough. 

Would you consider it wrong for a hunter to rehome a hound who didn't enjoy the hunt and give him to a home where he can be happy? 
If the OP was saying that this pup was about to get a one-way walk into the woods, that's different.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I agree with Angel.
> 
> *Didn't you just get another female Heidi in December??* Why not keep Mina and do something "else" with her, like obed/rally/tracking?
> 
> While I also agree all dogs deserve a good home and if they don't pan out they are often times better off in a different home... I also agree I could never rehome a dog that was especially my "heart" dog because they weren't cut out to do what I never intended them to do in the first place. Especially to get another dog


http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ise-dog-think-can-take-world.html#post2663288


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Maybe I have been at this too long and have become cynical, but just make sure the new club doesn't want to wash out your dog or is seeing issues because they have one of their own to sell you. Or maybe they just aren't that good at what they are doing or need a specific type of dog. 

You say your dog was doing OK in IPO. What is so bad with her that she can't do SDA?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

APBTLove said:


> What different is there from the dogs' point of view from this dog, or a long-term foster dog? They both get super attached to their owner, they both get new owners


I don't know about you but everyone I know that fosters, when they find a heart dog it becomes a foster failure. The other long term fosters I know take the seniors and they keep them until they pass. Otherwise the foster are in and out fairly quickly learning house manners, learning leash training, learning to live in a family and then they get to go to a family of their own. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding the way fosters work?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ise-dog-think-can-take-world.html#post2663288


Quite an interesting post and thank you for finding it and posting it here...so does the old dog go, so the new dog can stay?Makes me sick to think that this might be the case


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I got a puppy who was NOT purchased with competition in mind. 

I also "fell" into the sport world and tried to work with Stark with several clubs in my area. I was told over and over that he was not a dog suitable for sport BUT that they would still work with him. They gave me no guarantees other than the fact that I will learn A LOT on this dog and that I should keep an open mind. 

I did.

I still continue to train Stark, but it is a modified version that a IPO or SDA or PPD dog would train. We have modified his training in such a way that he now at least ENJOYS working!

Is he ever going to compete? Who knows, but at this point I can't see it.

He went through a TERRIBLE reactive phase (you can read all the stories here) and I never once considered giving this dog away. 

You make a commitment, you stick to it. 

I brought home another dog (Zefra) last year who is MADE for the sport world (doesn't matter what venue she just does well) and am SO lucky to have her in my life. She is a fun dog to work, to live with, etc.. and I plan to bring in another in the next year or two for the same purpose - to compete with.

BUT.. my dogs are first and foremost my companions. If anything happened to any of them that made competing not able to happen, they would happily live their life on my couch as my hiking or biking buddies or just a couch potato. Whatever made them happy.

That is just my $0.02.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter everyone. I'm goin to try and address some of the questions that came up. 

1) Heidi is being handled by my girlfriend at this point. Heidi is doing great at this sport as she was bred for sport. 

2) Keeping Mina as a "pet" isn't an option. We just don't have the room or time for that. 

3) Changing sports isn't an option for me. I love the sports and I'm also a helper/decoy and love the work as well as have tons of money invested in equipment.

4) If I was to rehome Mina (remember I'm just at the thinking about it stage) she would have to go to the perfect home. My Sister would take her in a heart beat! So more than likely she wouldn't leave my immediate family. 

5) The question about rehoming her if she was injured I don't know that I could answer without being in that situation. Too many variables. 

For the ones that asked if I would get rid of a child because it was falling behind in school, that's just a silly question. My dog is not a human child. So maybe the problem is the mindset of people.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Quite an interesting post and thank you for finding it and posting it here...so does the old dog go, so the new dog can stay?Makes me sick to think that this might be the case


This actually has nothing to do with it. The two girls are always seperated. They have learned to tolerate eachother in passing but we don't want to test the waters. It's not that difficult. Two dogs each with a different handler. So I don't really interact with Heidi anymore and my GF doesnt interact with Mina too much. Keeps them focused on their person. Thanks for the concern everyone.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Usually I don't respond to threads like this or get too "involved" because I believe everyone has their own right to do as they please... but I am seeing your situation far too much these days... I just can't believe how many people are rehoming dogs because of things like this... to me, you make a commitment you stick with it.

You have "invested" probably just as much, if not more money and time into your dog - not just the sport. Can you not just work your other dog for now, keep your Mina as a pet and then WAIT. People are just in too much of a hurry. Why not learn with Mina to do something else that will help your dog training skills? 

You could still work the other dog, enjoy the sport, etc.. 

I don't know, maybe my "mindset" is the PROBLEM?!

I see dogs for dogs. I am may call them "my babies and such" but when it comes down to it, they are animals.... I get that part. I love my dogs, etc.. but again, I see them for what they are... but I also see making a commitment as that. You stick it out until the end. 

I guess I am one of those "people".


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

My two cents:
OP will know what is best for him, the dog and everyone involved. And will do what he feels is best. Everyone jumping all over him will not change that.
So long as Mina is happy, I do not really see a problem with OP giving her to his sister and getting a pup more suited to the sport he loves. Maybe a male this time, to avoid having to totally seperate the dogs. Changing sports to suit the dog would be ideal, but we all know that once you fall in love with something it's difficult to bow out.

OP- I think you really just need to think about this carefully. Make sure, like another poster said, that the people in this club aren't just trying to sell you a dog by washing Mina out. Then think very diligently about what is best for you, your gf, Mina and Heidi. Then make your choice. And let us know what you decide. 
Personally I would not rehome my girl, even though there are no true sports I can participate in with her (and she definitely can't do conformation showing like I want to do). I view her as my child. But, to each their own.

Maybe I'm just not into the confrontation going on in this thread xD


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

To me there is a HUGE difference between someone who is involved in sport, buys a dog specifically FOR sport, the dog washes out for whatever reason, and then gets rehomed...............versus someone who didn't do appropriate research to begin with and ended up with a byb, didn't ever have any intention of doing sport work but ended up "falling" into it, and then wants to rehome the dog because it doesn't fit into the new hobby.

Sorry, big difference. 

If your dog was doing OK in IPO and the SDA folks are merely pointing out issues with your dog -- which ALL dogs have, then maybe you should stick with the IPO club who worked with what you had. Some clubs are dog snobs (ie your byb dog doesn't cut if for them) and some are more than willing to help someone with their first dog who might not be cut out of the big leagues (and scores) than others.

When we got Elsa we had no idea we'd ever get into SchH. She's a beautiful, moderate drive, sable, working-line girl. Loves to work, track, do agility....when I started going out the SchH club I was no doubt disappointed that she had no intention of doing bite work. But she's my heart dog and is the best first-time GSD someone could ask for (minus the dog reactivity). I got a puppy with the intention of having a dog that could WORK, but it never would have been the expense of Elsa getting a new home.

Maybe it's a little hypocritical to be OK with a dog being rehomed in one instance and not another, but so it goes. I always think back to: what were the intentions when you got the dog and who's fault is it the dog isn't measuring up? It's never the dog's fault when the owner drops the ball when getting into the breed.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Justine - I agree with you 100%.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> This actually has nothing to do with it. The two girls are always seperated. They have learned to tolerate eachother in passing but we don't want to test the waters. It's not that difficult. Two dogs each with a different handler. So I don't really interact with Heidi anymore and my GF doesnt interact with Mina too much. Keeps them focused on their person. Thanks for the concern everyone.


Your lying to yourself if you think that this doesn't have anything to do with it. A dog that is bred for the sport comes into your life and makes your dog that wasn't bred for it look bad. All of the sudden you realize what you could have and you are willing to sell your dog out. Maybe its your mindset that is the problem.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

I think something like this should have just been kept personal. You are going to do what you have to do anyways.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I guess I am just tired of seeing dogs be rehomed because of the ERROR from the HUMAN.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Although I agree that if she were his heart dog he wouldnt be able to re home her, i also agree it wouldnt be fair to the dog if he didnt have enough time for her because he was involved with a new pup in sport. If the dog goes to a great home where she is loved and cared for as a loving member of their family I don't see why all of you care. I'm not saying this is what I would do, but it's not MY dog and it's not any of your dogs. The dog deserves to be someone's loved companion. If the OP can't provide that then he should re home to someone who can. Without judgement. 


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I guess I am just tired of seeing dogs be rehomed because of the ERROR from the HUMAN.


I agree with this 150%. The dog doesn't have a clue of what is going on and then they find themselves in another home. Whatever happened to commitment?


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

llombardo said:


> Your lying to yourself if you think that this doesn't have anything to do with it. A dog that is bred for the sport comes into your life and makes your dog that wasn't bred for it look bad. All of the sudden you realize what you could have and you are willing to sell your dog out. Maybe its your mindset that is the problem.


Funny you should say that, because we "tease" Stark all the time... he is really a "mess" of a GSD (poor guy). Zefra just magnifies his issues because she really doesn't have any... lol... I am not saying she is perfect at all, but no issues like my big man. Poor Stark, we love the big lug but you can definitely 'see the difference'.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I guess I am just tired of seeing dogs be rehomed because of the ERROR from the HUMAN.


I agree. But usually that's the dogs thrown in shelters, rescues or posted on Craigslist. I have faith that the OP would only place her in an exceptional home. 


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Not in my eyes.

Commitment...... people don't know what this means anymore.

No more commenting on this for me..... as said, the OP will do as he pleases. 

I am going to go train and play with my washed out dog and then do some training with my brat working girl.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Not in my eyes.
> 
> Commitment...... people don't know what this means anymore.
> 
> ...


I'm with you...no need to get myself upset I've been out several times with mine today...a few more times won't hurt


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Rorie is perfectly capable of getting a title...but I am not...she hasn't re-homed me...yet


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Your girlfriend did, however, bring in a young adult for work. Would you be doing the same? A puppy bred for this with the right drives still has a risk of not working out. What is the strategy there?


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Would I personally rehome a dog because it didn't live up to my ideas for it? No. I could never do that. 

But I won't speak against someone like this, when it's laughable that people will get themselves in a tizzy over it with the overwhelming amount of real animal abuse, cruelty, and neglect all over the world, in our neighbors' home, the dogs dying in shelters. One person who has loved and cared well for their dog is considering finding a better fitting home for the dog, and getting a dog who fits their lifestyle better. My cup of tea? No, but it's not really that drastic or horrific. And it doesn't make to OP a bad person in my eyes, or a bad owner.


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## Ratness (Jan 5, 2013)

APBTLove said:


> Would you consider it wrong for a hunter to rehome a hound who didn't enjoy the hunt and give him to a home where he can be happy?
> If the OP was saying that this pup was about to get a one-way walk into the woods, that's different.


Where I am most people dump them off some where when they don't make the cut. Its sad.

I think a lot of the peoples problem is that the OP says this is his/her heart dog and that they really love her.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

My girl did ok in protection work, but she just didn't enjoy being around the other dogs and obedience phase was difficult. The energy she had at home disappeared at the field. So, now she's just my pet and I find things she enjoys. I love her too much to rehome so I can do Schutzhund. However, everyone is different and I'm sure there are serious Schutzhund people here who have rehomed and would rehome if that's what they intended to do when they got their dog. But, if I got one as a pet and stumbled into training and it didn't work, the pet comes first. Good luck whatever you decide to do.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

This goes on all the time There are certainly good reasons for rehoming animals and I don't have a problem with that at all. I guess what bugs me is when one has had a dog since puppyhood , and then it doesn't do what it probably wasn't intended to do, very well, replace it. 

Saying this dog was your heart dog bothers me the most. I guess I just come from a different way of ownership when it comes to especially, my heart dogs. 

I got Masi to do agility, she is not into it at all, and I was a diehard agility person, disappointed? a little, but we do other things, tracking she 'lives' for..Am I going to ever unload her? Not while there is breath in my body. She is one of my "heart" dogs and love her to death.

Unfortunately we live in a very disposable world and pets can be like paper plates.

I would like to end by saying, it is your decision obviously and I am not going to condemn someone for what they do, their dog, their business, and she'd probably be better off in a home where she can thrive, but it does make me sad when I hear of situations like this..


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## jennyp (Jun 18, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> This goes on all the time There are certainly good reasons for rehoming animals and I don't have a problem with that at all. I guess what bugs me is when one has had a dog since puppyhood , and then it doesn't do what it probably wasn't intended to do, very well, replace it.
> 
> Saying this dog was your heart dog bothers me the most. I guess I just come from a different way of ownership when it comes to especially, my heart dogs.
> 
> ...


Completely agree with this. Personally, I wouldn't rehome but if you need to go to an online forum to work out whether or not you should rehome your "heart dog" then the seed is pretty much planted in your head already. We can all yell out "No!! Don't do this!" but really, if you're even concidering getting rid of this dog for such selfish reasons then in your heart of hearts you've already made your decision. So, I say yes, give the dog to your sister because clearly you're not committed and this dog deserves someone who is.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

holland said:


> Rorie is perfectly capable of getting a title...but I am not...she hasn't re-homed me...yet


I was wondering who Rorie was when you mentioned her in my thread about dogs you would like to have a pup from.


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## jennyp (Jun 18, 2011)

Had to come back to ask - Why does this dog NEED titles? If you're not in a breeding program then honestly why is it so important? Can't you just continue to do the work for fun? Because if you're not planning to breed the dog then the title is really for you. I'm not trying to be snarky here so I'm sorry if its coming off that way but for me, I got Brody from a great lineage and I'm sure he could compete and go far, maybe even to a Sch3 but we train just for the enjoyment of it and for me, the experience is just as fulfilling.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

robk said:


> I was wondering who Rorie was when you mentioned her in my thread about dogs you would like to have a pup from.


LOL...yep there's all those famous dogs but then there's mine and she's just Rorie and after her there won't be anymore GSDs for me:apple:


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

This makes no sense. You get a BYB dog and it can't do SDA (so someone says). Was that surprising to you? One club's opinion and you're going to throw in the towel on the entire dog? I'm beyond blown. I've found over the years that we're becoming a self-centered and throw away culture... means to an end and no more than that. However, I didn't expect to see this here. Not unless it's a newbie. Even then... Just wow. I got a dog with the purpose of getting titles. If he doesn't? So what? I'm not going to be the best handler, either. I'm sure if he could fire me half way through he probably would. If he's a wash? Who cares? He's still my boy. He *is* my heart dog. I think you used the wrong phrase here. That's the confusion. See, if someone was beating my dog, I'd step in and protect him. If someone pointed a gun at him, I'd not let that bullet hit him. I'd do anything for him. I've got a REALLY bad back, but I carried his rear end down the deck stairs many times a day for a long time because I was afraid he'd fall and hurt himself because the stairs were steep... and I didn't know if he could see. That is what I think of when someone says 'heart dog'. That's why I'm sitting here with my head reeling. I agree with re-homing him. Hopefully your dog will have better luck. IMO, the dog's biggest 'loss' wasn't HIS failure at SDA. SMH Just an FYI, some breeders watch for people who do this, and they won't sell you a pup.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

holland said:


> Rorie is perfectly capable of getting a title...but I am not...she hasn't re-homed me...yet


I'm surprised Karlo hasn't done the same to me!

Really, I don't think it is anyone's business to judge. As long as the dog is placed in a loving home where she'll be happy, why does it matter whether or not someone rehome's a dog because it isn't a good fit. I couldn't do it, but understand why it happens. 
If the dog is better off in a place where she can be individualized and happy vs crated and left at home while the other dogs get to go to training, that is not a bad thing! 
I feel bad that I leave Kacie and Onyx when Karlo gets to go to training, but they don't know any different and are happy dogs. If I did bring them along, they'd be stressed out.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

APBTLove said:


> But I won't speak against someone like this, when it's laughable that people will get themselves in a tizzy over it with the overwhelming amount of real animal abuse, cruelty, and neglect all over the world, in our neighbors' home, the dogs dying in shelters. One person who has loved and cared well for their dog is considering finding a better fitting home for the dog, and getting a dog who fits their lifestyle better. My cup of tea? No, but it's not really that drastic or horrific. And it doesn't make to OP a bad person in my eyes, or a bad owner.



I'm going to jump on board with this. People keep tossing out the word "commitment". There are ways of being committed to a dog without having the dog live in your very home for life. When I get a dog, even when I allow the rescue to place a foster dog in my home, I am making a lifelong commitment to that dog, but for me that "commitment" doesn't mean the dog has to be MINE living in my house forever but that it *always* has someone who will step in a help if that's what it comes to. Even though my rescue doesn't take dogs back after 6 months or so, I would step in and help if one of our adopters contacted me. But I don't think I'm expected to actually KEEP every one of these dogs. People might be surprised how not difficult it is to find a really good home for a decent dog, a nice pet dog that doesn't have any major health or behavioral issues. I've rehomed dogs and had dogs rehomed to me. The circumstances are really no one's business but mine and the other people involved. It sounds like the OP already has a good home lined up. He might have done better to just not even start a thread like this but the can of worms has been opened. Of all the true abuse, cruelty, and neglect I have seen done to animals I can't sit here and condemn this person for thinking this through, being honest with himself, and making sure the dog would go to a great home best suited for her temperament. It's not my job to decide under which circumstances it is OK or not OK to adopt, place, sell, or rehome a dog. As long as the best interests of the DOG are taken into consideration, that's good enough for me.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

APBTLove said:


> But I won't speak against someone like this, when it's laughable that people will get themselves in a tizzy over it with the overwhelming amount of real animal abuse, cruelty, and neglect all over the world, in our neighbors' home, the dogs dying in shelters.


So is everyone supposed to say the same thing? "Go for it" (as in rehoming)?

Of course there's going to be mixed opinions, since most of us, having our dogs as PETS first and if they did well at something, did that, too. 

This person got a pet. Took it to a venue where it may or may not be failing. And now wants to rehome it because it's said to be failing. 

Point is - it was a pet first, and now that's not good enough, now it's expected to do something it cannot do.

It is slightly different than a person purchasing a working dog for the purpose of working.

I think everyone here needs to keep in mind that any dog may, in fact, fail at it's intended venue (if working or showing, etc.) and be prepared to keep as a pet if that's all the dog turns out to be.

Or have a real good contingency plan (dog goes back to breeder, dog is given to a family member, etc.). 

But a pet...purchased as a pet... should be kept as a pet if that's all it turns out to be, after all.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Loneforce said:


> I think something like this should have just been kept personal. You are going to do what you have to do anyways.


These are true words of wisdom. 
There's people doing this all over, without announcing it to the world.
Any time you post something so controversial on a message board, expect there to be controversy :thumbup:


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

msvette2u said:


> Or have a real good contingency plan (dog goes back to breeder, dog is given to a family member, etc.).
> 
> But a pet...purchased as a pet... should be kept as a pet if that's all it turns out to be, after all.



Is that not what is happening? I thought he said his sister would take her if he decides to go that route. The dog can still be part of the family and be a pet. Yes if she was purchased as a pet she should live as a pet.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

So they can get another dog?
And what if that dog, too, washes out?
And the next...etc...?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

As long as they responsibly place the dogs what does it matter? Many times people buy pups, train them to a degree, resell them for profit, they aren't judged. 
I guess I'd rather see a dog that has some good foundation training placed than one that has run wild its whole puppyhood and then placed after the cute puppy stage has worn off.


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## m1953 (May 7, 2012)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Not in my eyes.
> 
> Commitment...... people don't know what this means anymore.
> 
> ...


Exactly. So sad we have become a throw away society. Something doesn't work, get rid of it. Same reason the divorce rate is close to 50 percent..


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Just speaking from experience though (I never gave up my dog that doesn't do schutzhund) -even when you get a dog that can do the sport and in fact excels at it you are going to have rough training weeks-and even then there will be people who tell you that your dog isn't good enough or you aren't good enough-because some people just like to do that-


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Liesje said:


> I'm going to jump on board with this. People keep tossing out the word "commitment". There are ways of being committed to a dog without having the dog live in your very home for life. When I get a dog, even when I allow the rescue to place a foster dog in my home,


You can't even compare what you do and what is being done by the OP. Please give yourself more credit then that. Yes you do rescues and foster dogs, completely different then getting a puppy, raising it, and planning on the dog being in the home for the duration of its life.....then something like a title comes along that is worth more then the dog. You can't compare what you do(thank you for doing this) with what the OP is doing. The OP is no better then someone that gets rid of a dog because they had a baby, the dog isn't potty trained, no time, etc. It really doesn't matter to me what the OP does, the dog will be better off with the sister, but don't put it on a public forum full of people that don't feel the same way and then to put it out there not even a month after the other dog came? Really, who is fooled by that one?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

m1953 said:


> Exactly. So sad we have become a throw away society. Something doesn't work, get rid of it. Same reason the divorce rate is close to 50 percent..


This. 
I will say that this is how dogs become so neurotic and develop anxieties.
We've had some very nice dogs here that have been destroyed, mentally, by being bounced around. 

I hope things work out for this dog, who, through absolutely no fault of her own, is losing the only home she's known 



> don't put it on a public forum full of people that don't feel the same way and then to put it out there not even a month after the other dog came? Really, who is fooled by that one?


Especially when posts are made about how the two don't get along.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

holland said:


> Just speaking from experience though (I never gave up my dog that doesn't do schutzhund) -even when you get a dog that can do the sport and in fact excels at it you are going to have rough training weeks-and even then there will be people who tell you that your dog isn't good enough or you aren't good enough-because some people just like to do that-


I agree, but usually it is the handler that quits because they are the ones that wash out! What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I see dogs in trials(and training) that personally I think shouldn't be doing the sport, but the handler keeps on keeping on. Not sure that is fair to the dog. I cringe when I see the dog cringe


> I will say that this is how dogs become so neurotic and develop anxieties.
> We've had some very nice dogs here that have been destroyed, mentally


This can also be said for dogs that are kept in a sport they don't enjoy because the handler won't give it up...thinks with more training, more pressure the dog will get better.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

llombardo said:


> You can't even compare what you do and what is being done by the OP. Please give yourself more credit then that. Yes you do rescues and foster dogs, completely different then getting a puppy, raising it, and planning on the dog being in the home for the duration of its life.....then something like a title comes along that is worth more then the dog. You can't compare what you do(thank you for doing this) with what the OP is doing. The OP is no better then someone that gets rid of a dog because they had a baby, the dog isn't potty trained, no time, etc. It really doesn't matter to me what the OP does, the dog will be better off with the sister, but don't put it on a public forum full of people that don't feel the same way and then to put it out there not even a month after the other dog came? Really, who is fooled by that one?


So I should just say "screw you" the next time my rescue needs my help fostering and re-homing a puppy? I don't have the patience or emotional energy to play judge to every person/dog that comes through the rescue. All I care about is the DOG. I don't care who owned it or why they gave it up. It won't change a thing. Nobody wants to be the one to accept some dogs and deny others, based on what we assume about the owner's situation and motivations. The last time I allowed myself to harshly judge someone giving up their dog to the rescue (11 year old GSD for free on Craigslist) I was proven wrong and am ashamed of what I originally thought. So from now on, I just look at it from the dog's point of view, period.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

To me it's sort of the principle of it. Owner screws up and doesn't do the research they should have before purchasing their (supposed) heart dog, are lucky to have a dog that did well enough in IP) for 15 months so OP can even get into the sport a little bit, and then decide it's not good enough. Lies, to me this is like you getting Coke and then getting into SchH and being disappointed he's not going to ever get a title. 

To each their own, but to those saying it's no one's business. Funny little thing called posting on the internet....make it everyones' busines.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

GSDElsa said:


> Lies, to me this is like you getting Coke and then getting into SchH and being disappointed he's not going to ever get a title.


*chuckle* that was a great mental picture! Coke is the definition of "just a pet."


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

THAT is what I am saying Justine. 

BTW Lies - Coke and Stark would probably be a good match for their "working ability!" Just sayn'.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

When I got Sib I had no plans what-so-ever for her..just wanted her and to give her a good home...then I found out she was not even AKC--this really bothered me..but she is my heart dog and with conversations with Selzer I was made to realize some crap just doesn't matter...My point? I think if the OP is not going to give the love to the GSD that it needs..than give it to someone who will...Would I do it?? I guess, as most of you have stated, I would love the dog too much to "dispose "of it..However, these sports take a lot of money and if the reward is not there, than ....You are left with a byb dog...I think the dog is better off with another family who will love her for her...not her accomplishments..


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> This can also be said for dogs that are kept in a sport they don't enjoy because the handler won't give it up...thinks with more training, more pressure the dog will get better.


How do we know that's what is happening with _this _dog? Maybe it enjoys the sport but is just not "up to par", but isn't being mentally destroyed.
There's probably more dogs out there doing it "just for fun", which, if you look at the other thread, is pretty much what the sport is about, than doing it at competition level.
So what if the dog never titles? If it's not harming the dog, then it's all good, is it not??

Good gosh, there was a thread a while back with some really piss poor dogs working, that shied away and cringed from the stick, yet still managed to get titles for breeding purposes.

How bad is _this_ dog, anyway? Just not sharp enough? Is it a quivering mass of jello on the field??


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

I wouldn't listen to this so called "elite" club I would prove them wrong..Crap I wanted to stay out of this. lol But That is what I would do I would keep going and make them eat their words.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I have no idea what this dog is doing, but at least someone who actually observes them training maybe recognizes the dog isn't a good candidate for sport. 
Once again, I ask who are we, who aren't involved other than this thread, to decide what is best for the dog?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I apologize in advance for reading just three pages of this post before posting. 

I think there are some differences between rehoming a dog that washes from a breeding program or police dog or even search dog program or service dog program, so that you can free up the time, money, energy to have the dog you need there. These dogs are kept or purchased specifically to meet a need. Yes, they will be a member of the household and they will be loved, but their purpose was to be trained for police work, search work, as a service dog, or a breeding prospect. To keep the dog and replace it, means both dogs do not get as much. And finding the right home for the dog is better for the dogs.

Sport is a hobby. That is just a fraction of a dog's life. It is an entertainment to the owner. It even sounds like the girlfriend is making bigger strides with her new dog, and boy friend is jealous. 

The bottom line is, what happens if the dog remains in place. Is the OP going to regret having the dog? Is he going to be ashamed of her? Is she going to be a obstacle of contention? If that is the case, and the sister will take her in a heartbeat, and the sister is a good home that can handle the dog and give her what she needs, then for the dog's sake, do it. For the dog's sake. 

If you are wrong about your sister. If she balks. If her husband says "no way." Well, now you have to go about finding the perfect home for this bitch. This is a dog that has been raised, trained, and encouraged to have drive and probably to bite is some situations. A properly trained Schutzhund dog is LESS, not more likely to bite, but I think that because the training is there, you really need to be more careful in the placement of the bitch. 

Seriously, you are running this situation by us, because you have doubts. You know deep down what is right and what is wrong. I don't think this dog is your heart-dog. Because we would not be having this conversation. You just have never experienced what a heart dog is. When a heart dog is missing or under the knife you are physically ill, I can't explain it. When you have a heart dog, you are looking for outlets where she shines and thrives, you are not looking for her to make you shine or thrive. 

In your haste to find a more suitable partner, please give a lot of thought about the dog you have and the type of owner she requires. Let's not pretend that you will take her back, because you don't have the room for four dogs in your life. So you NEED to make your first decision on placement count with her.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

GSDElsa said:


> To me it's sort of the principle of it. Owner screws up and doesn't do the research they should have before purchasing their (supposed) heart dog, are lucky to have a dog that did well enough in IP) for 15 months so OP can even get into the sport a little bit, and then decide it's not good enough.


Really, I agree, but I just find it hard to get all worked up over this stuff any more. The last puppy I handled for rescue came with a nasty rash/infection covering half his body because his owner's idea of "house training" was keeping him in a small crate ALL the time where he was forced to live in his own urine, which eventually burned his skin. Even though most of the rescue dogs aren't this bad, just seeing a few is all I need to keep things in perspective. I won't sit here and praise the OP but really, if he's giving his dog to his sister and she's a good home, I honestly don't care beyond that. And yes, it does bother me when people don't do research about their dogs beforehand. Or in the case of a rescue dog, understand from the get-go that you can't make any realistic plans or predictions about what sports the dog might be good for.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

That's all I can think of. How "sure" of a think is the sister's home? Until the dog chews up a shoe? Piddles on the carpet?
ETC.



> I can't explain it. When you have a heart dog, you are looking for outlets where she shines and thrives, you are not looking for her to make you shine or thrive.


This exactly...you have hit the nail on the head, Selz. 

So strange and coincidental that a few days after the new fancy dog this person's been drooling over arrives that suddenly existing dog is just not gonna work out any longer 

I mean...sure, if the OP wants to get rid of the "wash out", do it, but at least be honest with yourself about why she's leaving, if nobody else.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> To each their own, but to those saying it's no one's business. Funny little thing called posting on the internet....make it everyones' busines.


Two threads it the last two days I've seen this happen. Couldn't agree more if you are going to call rescues shabby or talk about getting rid of a heart dog just because they are not cut out for sport, well you just provoked the drama you wanted.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

msvette2u said:


> I mean...sure, if the OP wants to get rid of the "wash out", do it, but at least be honest with yourself about why she's leaving, if nobody else.


I think he was pretty honest, hence 8 pages and counting in one day...


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## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

I had to retire Echo at age 4 due to problems with jumps. No way would I ever replace her just to have a dog who DOES jump.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Liesje said:


> I think he was pretty honest, hence 8 pages and counting in one day...


Well yes and no, I mean, would he have come to that conclusion without the addition of Heidi in his home? I doubt it.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't know I though he said Heidi is his GF's dog and he doesn't handle her? I'm pretty familiar with households having multiple dogs that basically "belong" to separate people. That is basically how my husband and I operate and my close friends. If he didn't have Heidi, he'd still be without a sport dog since it's not his dog.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I've had plenty of people tell me that Aiden is a crappy Schutzhund dog and to get rid of him....and I tell them to suck it. He is my dog and I will keep doing Schutzhund with him because that's what I want to do. I know that people have talked about my dog and I behind our backs and laughed at our struggles, but I really don't care. Like you, I'm new to this sport. It was discouraging at first when I realized what it takes to compete and compared it to what I have with Aiden, but I also realized that I love the sport and my dog so much that if I could get any title on him, it would mean more to me than any super high level national title in the world with another dog. 

So instead of washing him out, I kept training. Changed a lot of things. Changed clubs. Made it work and got an IPO1 on him. Kept going and failed the IPO2 twice (dismissed from PR each time). I got down on myself and my dog after failing and thought of retiring him. I gave him a few weeks off and we came back today for training and he did super. His obedience is nice and his tracking is gorgeous. His protection does need and will always need lots and lots of work. That's just who he is. We have good training days and bad training days. I know its hard but its worth it to persevere. I'm going to get some tracking and obedience titles on him, and see if the protection clears up and falls into place in the meantime. But I can't just wash him out completely. His other strong points will make me proud to title him in those aspects.

I guess what I'm just trying to say is that you should give your decision some time. Maybe you'll decide, like I have, to work with what you've got. Work with her on her strong points and don't put so much emphasis on the protection for now. If she was better at Schutzhund, then I would go back to Schutzhund. Give her a chance to work it out and re-evaluate her in some time. She may surprise you. And by that point, maybe you'll be in a position to add another working dog to your home without having to re-home your current dog.

Just a thought...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> When a heart dog is missing or under the knife you are physically ill, I can't explain it. When you have a heart dog, you are looking for outlets where she shines and thrives, you are not looking for her to make you shine or thrive.


This is so true. Mine qualified for schutzhund, much to their surprise. While I was there waiting for her to be evaluated, I went inside to check out agility. They(GSD Club) told me she has it now, but who knows what will happen a year for now. So my thought process was not to set the dog up to fail(because I really don't know where she came from), but to do something with her that she was truly good at. I wanted her to have fun and agility is where she shines. And oh boy was I sick when she was sick...I didn't care how much it cost or what was wrong, I just wanted her to be better. I would go insane if she ever went missing. So you don't have to explain it, people can understand it...I know I do.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> This is so true. Mine qualified for schutzhund, much to their surprise. While I was there waiting for her to be evaluated, I went inside to check out agility. They(GSD Club) told me she has it now, but who knows what will happen a year for now. So my thought process was not to set the dog up to fail(because I really don't know where she came from), but to do something with her that she was truly good at. I wanted her to have fun and agility is where she shines. And oh boy was I sick when she was sick...I didn't care how much it cost or what was wrong, I just wanted her to be better. I would go insane if she ever went missing. *So you don't have to explain it, people can understand it...I know I do*.


That's because you have a heart-dog.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Sorry for the late response. I was out training at the club as I do about 30 hours a week. Since I'm such a horrible person and all. 

Yes, I got Mina from a byb but she was never inteded to be a "pet". I always wanted her to do something. I tried many different things with her and it appeared that schutzhund was going to be a good fit. Now as she is maturing it's looking like this might not be the case. I didn't even know what a byb was when I got her. I new a GSD was a working dog and it should work. I didn't think about all the poorly bred ones. So yes maybe I didn't do all the research I should have. I also didn't know I would get as involved in the sports as I have. I had no way of predicting the future. 

Yes after bringing Heidi into the house and seeing what a well bred GSD is suppose to be is a slap in the face. Many of you are making it seem like it's my fault dogs are in shelters. I had nothing to do with those dogs in the shelters. 

It's not really about the titles as much as it is the training. I have thousands of hours and dollars into training and lately feel like we are just going backwards. At some point it's time to cutt your loss. It's a harsh reality. 

For the ones that say they would never do this. I said the same thing all the way up until the thought crossed my mind. This forum has just become part of my thinkning process. I am not making any quick decisions. Maybe this forum wasn't the best idea but it's all out now. I truly have been losing sleep trying to decide what is best for everyone. Thanks for the replies, sorry if I ruined anyones day.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I have had quite a few washouts and retirees. They are currently lounging around the house.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

gagsd said:


> I have had quite a few washouts and retirees. They are currently lounging around the house.


This would be the ideal situation but just not possible for me. At least not right now.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The best thing you can learn is next time don't come to an Internet board with this type of issue. You have to do what is in the best interest of you and your dog. If you are that vested in the sport, you could keep the dog and be a good guy, maybe get a second dog that likes this a lot, and this dog becomes relegated to second class citizen in their own house....as opposed to being somewhere where the dog could be King or Queen. Or you could deny yourself the second dog or give up the sport that you love and she is queen or king heart with an owner that is resentful. My point is, there are many endings for this story that can end happily or unhappily, and it is critical that you seek a remedy that meets both of your needs. Most opinions that can't or won't understand ALL aspects of this situation, may be well intentioned, but reality is this is a private situation that someone not walking in your moccasins can only speak for THEIR situation and not yours. You have a responsibility to do what is best for you and your dog....there is no one answer to this as some would lead you to believe.....for them maybe....but each life situation varies and good solutions abound. I wish the best for you and your dog, and if you make responsible decisions, I assure you both of you will do well!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Most opinions that can't or won't understand ALL aspects of this situation,


Hm. 
How aren't people understanding?
It's been said in other places on this forum that dogs are equipment to "working homes", I think we understand that just fine :shrug:
I guess we just all place different values on our pets. That much is easy to understand.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> Yes after bringing Heidi into the house and seeing what a well bred GSD is suppose to be is a slap in the face. Many of you are making it seem like it's my fault dogs are in shelters. I had nothing to do with those dogs in the shelters.


Yes, it appears your dog will not go to the shelter. But, the mindset you have about your dog is the same one that lands lots of dogs in shelters. 

For one reason or another, a dog is determined not to be a good fit or not to meet the owner's immediate needs… so it goes. Some people look to responsibly re-home, many others don’t. The mindset is the same.

Personally, it sounds like the “Sport World” is not about the welfare of dogs, it is about the vanity of the owners. Not only does that land dogs out of their homes, it also probably leads to extremes in breeding practices that are not good for the breed as whole.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There are dogs in shelters because people get tired of them, feel they are too much work, or that they are not what they thought they would be. Sometimes people grow out of their dogs. They get puppies and it is way cool, and then they wake up one day and the puppy is no longer as cool as they thought it was and they are on to the next thing that is way cool; a horse, a motorcycle, a dog of a different breed, a new puppy, or a dog that better suits their newest phase. 

Not everyone has a sister that will take the dog. Not everyone cares what will happen to the pup now that it's cute puppy stage is over. Once they decide to get rid of the dog, they no longer care what happens to it. Maybe they ask if the shelter is no-kill, but really, once they decide, they just divorce themselves. No one is suggesting that is what you are intending to do with your dog. 

I think that it is your description of her as your heart-dog and then talking about getting rid of her after a week of training that did not go the way you wanted it to. 

I am a little disturbed that you see a well-bred dog, and you are ready to give away your dog so you can get one like that. Well bred or not, a dog is still a personality, and if you can live with a dog for a year and then see another dog in action and consider clearing the floor to open space for one like that, well, IDK, I guess you really wouldn't have posted this thread if you thought nothing of it. 

I think if this thread started with, "My sister really loves Mina, she wants a dog, and since we have gotten Heidi, I am starting to see what the other people have been telling me about her not being cut out for the sport. So I am really considering letting my sister have this dog, because I know that she will be just perfect for her. And then I will be looking for a dog like Heidi who will be able to work to the level that I want to be at." -- I think this thread would have gone a little different. 

We are a site of dog lovers here, the other stuff, sport, showing, etc, is really secondary.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

To me, the right thing "depends." Sports dogs often get rehomed when they don't work out. I am more into dogs than into the sport. If the youngster hadn't loved Schutz. (which is what I intended to work her in) we would find something else to do. I am far more into the dog than into the sport. 

This afternoon I got my gelding out on a trail ride. He would really rather not. I am, for the time being, more adament about going than he is about not going. I would really like him to just move on up the trail so we could have a nice relaxing, long ride. If I want him to move on up the trail, I really have to work at it -- push push, circle, circle push! I miss the horse that I could ride out. I have to work to remember that she wasn't perfect but lack of impulsion was not in her bag. I have the option of offering him back to the man I bought him from. I haven't done that yet. It doesn't look like I am going to do that. In a way, it is just seeing how long this takes...

What's right for the OP may not be what's right for me.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What's interesting to me is this thread and then the thread about would we rehome our dog if it connected with someone else and how many people say YES. What gives?


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Liesje said:


> What's interesting to me is this thread and then the thread about would we rehome our dog if it connected with someone else and how many people say YES. What gives?


:thumbup:


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## GSD2 (Jan 27, 2012)

I know you'll think long and hard over this, and lose sleep over it, too. Mina is really an awesome dog. From what I've seen I do believe she very well may be your heart dog. I do so hope there will be a better solution. As you ponder on alternatives keep an open mind, there very well may be a better solution. I know you will think long and hard on this before you make a decison. Good luck, I'm sorry you're going through this hard time right now.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I wasn't one of the ones saying they'd rehome if it connected with someone else. 
My dogs wouldn't connect with someone else, if I am in their lives.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

msvette2u said:


> I wasn't one of the ones saying they'd rehome if it connected with someone else.
> My dogs wouldn't connect with someone else, if I am in their lives.


Me either but some of the people condemning the OP here were...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

what gives is the word 'sport' attached.... regardless of the reason for rehome, it should always be what is best for the dog and in the dogs best interest!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I am far more into the dog than into the sport.


I'm guessing this is the bottom line.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Ew what thread is this that you're talking about Lies? I can guarantee MY answer wouldn't be yes.

Ultimately at the end of the day rehoming the dog is probably the best option because he doesn't want the dog anymore. Don't agree with the whole mentality going down in this thread and the type of person that behaves that way, but the OP will do what the OP wants. What if the new dog doesn't pan out? What if the new dog doesn't get along with the GF's dog? You are the type of person that you are and at the end of the day there is no changing it.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Liesje said:


> What's interesting to me is this thread and then the thread about would we rehome our dog if it connected with someone else and how many people say YES. What gives?


We heard that this dog was the OP's "heart dog" not that it had a special connection with another person. 

You know, the OP will do what the OP wants. That's fine.

It really is the notion that a dog is disposable that bothers me. I have read that it is common in the sport world. In my eyes, that is a shame! And, not something to be endorsed. It is a HOBBY, it is not about producing working dogs that will actually go on to be of service to society.

To me, the OP has a "keeping up with the Jones" mentality and instead of it being the better car or bigger house it is about having the best dog. If that is the mindset that the sport world fosters, then this is a bigger problem for anyone who actually cares about dogs.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

without getting on my high horse i will point out that a dog is better off imo in a good home that appreciattes the dog's existence rather than a home that thinks it is a loser.

some facts here: so many of the top competitors/trainers we all admire will give a great dog up in a heart beat if they think there time can be spent with another dog that will point higher. imagine getting a dog to worlds or something making it all famous then the next logical step is if it is stud material is to sell it to the highest bidder and start on the next batch, or just leave it rot in a kennel...never happen??

what about the females soon as their old enough get sent to germany titled for money, breed surveyed sent home and then left in a sow-stall untill they are old then sold on to the highest bidder to get that final one or more litter out with a name. the gift that keeps on giving...never happen??


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Again, *not* condoning the OP but just trying to keep this thread in balance. LOTS of people weighing in on the "sport world" that probably have zero experience with what they are talking about.... Seriously people are going to make broad judgements about a sport they've never participated in based on this ONE person and this ONE thread?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Me either but some of the people condemning the OP here were...


Rehoming a foster, or a dog that is not your ♥ dog because it connects well and fits better with a different family is a lot different than giving up a dog you say you love because it can't do the sport you want.


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## San (Mar 22, 2012)

OP, I agree with Cliffson1, this is a personal decision, you know your own situation, your sister's family, and your dogs' needs the best. You have to do what you feel is the best for everyone. 

I agree, titling is not everything. We don't care about titles, but we do our best to train our GSD and to title her to show respect for our decoys and our head trainer who put in a lot of time/effort, countless bruises, and multiple injuries for all the dog/handler teams.

Hubby and I have been involved in protection sports for 3.5 years, hubby is a helper at our club, we foster for a GSD rescue, so we have a pretty good understanding of what you are going through. Hubby is the only person in the club who does not have a personal sport dog, we struggle with the decision on whether we should get a second sport dog or continue to foster all the time (can't do both, we already have 3 resident dogs). There is really no right or wrong to our decision, both outcomes bring satisfaction to us, just at different levels and capacities. One way or the other, we have to sacrifice something. 

I know when we let our foster dogs go, we would only let them go to better homes than what we can provide. If you are doing the same for Mina, and Mina is truly happier with her new family, then it can be a win-win situation. 

Best of luck to you and Mina!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

x11 said:


> some facts here: so many of the top competitors/trainers we all admire will give a great dog up in a heart beat if they think there time can be spent with another dog that will point higher. imagine getting a dog to worlds or something making it all famous then the next logical step is if it is stud material is to sell it to the highest bidder and start on the next batch, or just leave it rot in a kennel...never happen??


You always make comments like that, but I'm curious exactly how many people you know have gone to worlds and then sold their dogs? Sure it happens, but I bet a whole lot less often than you seem to falsely have in your head.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

if there is only one then the statement is true.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Rehoming the dog for the right reasons, and this may be a right reason in this case, that doesn't really bother me. If the dog totally bonded to someone else, well, probably it isn't as bonded to you, and letting it go to the other person is an unselfish thing to do. 

Letting a retired breeding bitch, police dog, or a dog that washes go to a family of their own might be a very unselfish thing to do. It gives the dog the chance to be the center of the universe to some family that really will appreciate the dog. It is about the dog, really. 

This may be too. Maybe now that the OP is looking at this dog through the tinted shades of the well-bred dog bred for the sport he loves, things aren't going to be the same. If he keeps the bitch he may be always unsatisfied with her. How is that good for her? 

I think most of the people said that there was no way they would rehome a heart dog. I mean, there are dogs in my group, that I think I can rehome if it was the right home, and others that I can't no way, no how. Maybe it is the semantics, what a heart dog is to each of us.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Maybe the OP doesn't really know what it means to have a heart dog. My first dog was not my heart dog. I might have thought so at the time, but I don't now.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

or if there is actually any blood in that heart


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

Everyone is talking in circles. The OP is going to do what he has to do no matter what everyone says. I dont want to see everyone get angry at each other


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

x11 said:


> if there is only one then the statement is true.


Actually, you've made statements in the past along the lines of "almost all" dogs who are on a world team are rehomed.

It happens in all walks of life. Just as many sport people rehome for BS or greedy purposes as pet people...but you like to make sweeping generalizations you don't know anything about.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Again, *not* condoning the OP but just trying to keep this thread in balance. LOTS of people weighing in on the "sport world" that probably have zero experience with what they are talking about.... Seriously people are going to make broad judgements about a sport they've never participated in based on this ONE person and this ONE thread?


True, I have zero experience with this sport. But, I have been following this forum for quite some time and this is not the only thread where this has come up.

And, several people have commented here, and elsewhere, that re-homing dogs that don't perform is common. As I said earlier, I think that is a problem. I know, working in rescue, that there is not a happy ending for a lot of dogs like these. People will scream otherwise, but the fact of the matter is that dogs like the OP described often find themselves in need of rescue.

Furthermore, other threads speak to how breeding for "sport" is negatively effecting the overall breed... The mindset of the OP is the same one that is probably driving demand for that.


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## zivagirl (Jan 5, 2013)

I don't understand the original post. If you got her and your intent wasn't to compete (you fell into it), then why rehome her because she....well....can't compete.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

it's just a discussion, if it makes people think either way what's the problem. nobody is throwing rocks at each other...yet.

what would you expect from a bunch of dog lovers...applause.


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## KristiM (Oct 18, 2011)

This kind of stuff makes protection sports look so bad...the mentality that a dog is just a tool for YOUR competitive outlet. It is pretty common from what I have seen and one of the reasons I left IPO.

I KNOW that MOST people involved in protection sports do not have this mentality and those people are the ones who should be angry about this, IMO this kind of stuff gives these sports a bad name. One thing to wash and rehome a "working" dog or a breeding dog. This is different and unfortunately seems to be pretty common in bite sports.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> I wasn't one of the ones saying they'd rehome if it connected with someone else.
> My dogs wouldn't connect with someone else, if I am in their lives.


Never say never..till you have been in that boat, in those shoes.

The reality is people buy and sell dogs all the time.Breeders, brokers, competitors. I am around folks who show goldens, labs, trial border collies. They "rehome "them all the time. The dogs do fine.

You would be surprised when I housesit or have dogs stay at my house how quickly they adapt! Sure, they remember their owner when they come home, but they seem just fine hanging with me too!

Gee, he is not sending the dog to the pound..

Ok..carry on


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

GSDElsa said:


> Actually, you've made statements in the past along the lines of "almost all" dogs who are on a world team are rehomed.
> 
> It happens in all walks of life. Just as many sport people rehome for BS or greedy purposes as pet people...but you like to make sweeping generalizations you don't know anything about.




OK - in my opinion then - happy.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

x11 said:


> OK - in my opinion then - happy.


If you stop stating it as fact, which you seem to like to do


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Oh, J. I am so sorry that you have to go through this. I know how much Mina means to you. I've just re-homed Indra and it wasn't easy. Took everything I had not to start crying during the Christmas Party of the training group, yesterday.

For everyone judging him. I know J. well enough to know that he is NOT the kind of person you make him out to be! He does not take a decision like that lightly. Do NOT judge him. He is a wonderful owner and you judging him like that is disgusting and unfair and I hate when people treat my friends that way! 
He loves Mina!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

KristiM said:


> One thing to wash and rehome a "working" dog or a breeding dog.


I guess I don't understand this. I don't get why it's perfectly OK to rehome breeding dogs or "working" dogs (what does that mean?) or dogs that you just don't feel bonded to (see other thread) but rehoming a pet is vastly different? Is it different to the DOG? I don't think so. I guess I see it the other way around. Sometimes I see breeders moving around so many dogs it makes me sad but they get put on a pedestal and held to a different standard because they are breeders. Also I can't imagine rehoming a working dog, your partner.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

sure i have broadened the facts into a generalisation because i think it sux, but would you say my statement is; absolutely false, unlikely, rare??


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Mrs.K said:


> He loves Mina!



sure he does


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

LifeofRiley said:


> True, I have zero experience with this sport. But, I have been following this forum for quite some time and this is not the only thread where this has come up.
> 
> And, several people have commented here, and elsewhere, that re-homing dogs that don't perform is common. As I said earlier, I think that is a problem. I know, working in rescue, that there is not a happy ending for a lot of dogs like these. People will scream otherwise, but the fact of the matter is that dogs like the OP described often find themselves in need of rescue.
> 
> Furthermore, other threads speak to how breeding for "sport" is negatively effecting the overall breed... The mindset of the OP is the same one that is probably driving demand for that.


This exactly. And ironically it's _just a hobby._
I've seen this mentality as well in other dog sports (flyball, for one)...which are just basically human hobbies that sometimes dogs don't mesh well with, then it's out the door, unless you have a big house and can fit those "wash outs" in it.



> Never say never..till you have been in that boat, in those shoes.


There's a few dogs that live here I could easily give up, 2 are here just because nobody else wanted them. 
And nobody does, even now, so they stay. 
They get attention, sleep on someone's bed at night, etc. They aren't miserable, they get treated like everyone else. 
But they aren't "my" dogs, and certainly not my heart dog. I could never, I would never give up him, and he wouldn't be bonding with anyone else, I can tell you that in a heartbeat. 

And if we had fewer dogs I could possibly start pursuing my dream of breeding healthy Dachshunds, but we don't, so I don't. 

Some human dreams and goals simply must wait.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Can we get back on topic, people?

I am appalled at the way people are acting at this point. None of us know the relationship of dog/owner. I agree with Liesje, Selzer and Cliff.


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## Smitherman (Jan 6, 2013)

why would anyone re-home a dog because of this?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> You would be surprised when I housesit or have dogs stay at my house how quickly they adapt! Sure, they remember their owner when they come home, but they seem just fine hanging with me too!


Um, I rescue, I know how well dogs adapt and bond to new people, and I'm not so naive to think my own dogs wouldn't, should I perish and they are left behind. 

But then again, some dogs don't do well at all and become basket-cases. We've had to euthanize more than one dog due to anxiety, which often comes directly from being passed around. Not every dog survives being handed off to new people.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

apparently this is the first time it has ever happened.

ok not necessary, my bad.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

I don't think you have to be involved in sport with your dog to have an opinion (and basically, the OP was inviting opinions). I'm still struggling to understand this. I'd been told about it, but I guess I thought it wasn't really something that happened much. If a breeder or some other *serious* professional was involved, I think I could wrap my head around that pretty easily. It's an investment for a return, or for a job. For the average Joe, especially one just starting in the sport, I don't understand. Honestly. That's where I'm at with this. I totally agree that the dog should be re-homed rather than be a "second place" dog. It's in the best interest of the dog. That part is not hard to grasp for me. Sometimes, though, clubs are wrong. Evaluations are wrong. This is still technically a pup. (Young adult, whatever) I had my previous male "evaluated" without an evaluation as not being SchH material. Went to another club, and the helper (who was a good, imported helper) tried other things for a 'new' dog that totally failed. When he put on the sleeve, though, the dog lit up. The helper was happy, I was shocked. If I'd had the time then to get into it, I would have with him. I loved my duo. Neither, though, was meant to be my heart dog. I think that phrase also leads to my confusion. I LOVED my previous shepherds. Didn't think I could love a dog more. Their losses rocked my world violently. Still, while having Grim's eyes evaluated... and the wait.. made both myself and my breeder physically ill. That hasn't happened to me with a dog. Not until Grim. Things become non-negotiable when you find your heart dog. For me anyways, therein lies the rub. I think that's where the real disbelief comes in. As with just about anything, I want to understand. Understanding is the bottom line of learning, having sympathy, empathy, etc. I think this one may be beyond my ability to grasp. However, it will at least lead me to the point that I can say "this happens" and believe it. 
OP- were you planning to breed this dog originally? Are you looking for a sport dog with the prospect of breeding? Is your heart set on SDA? 

What is usually the 'goal' of someone who re-homes and starts with another dog if they're not a breeder? Is there something I'm missing? Is there money involved in some other way?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> But then again, some dogs don't do well at all and become basket-cases. We've had to euthanize more than one dog due to anxiety, which often comes directly from being passed around. Not every dog survives being handed off to new people.


Some dogs get passed around because of their anxiety. I know of a GSD pup right now that the owner is rehoming due to severe separation anxiety and she can't handle the destruction. I feel bad for both and have tried to help her, but she isn't committed to dealing with it. So he'll go to someone that has no clue how to deal with it and so it goes. He's 8 months and I do fear for his future. He's a byb dog, nice temperament otherwise, needs to be worked bad. His SA is probably due to lack of exercise/mental stimulation. I'm not judging the owner rehoming him. She's a mess because of his temperament. Poor breeding and her not researching/buying off the classifieds is the reason she's in this mess. But I can't butt in on her placing him, either. I have to step back, bite my tongue as hard as it is.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mrs.K said:


> Oh, J. I am so sorry that you have to go through this. I know how much Mina means to you. I've just re-homed Indra and it wasn't easy. Took everything I had not to start crying during the Christmas Party of the training group, yesterday.
> 
> For everyone judging him. I know J. well enough to know that he is NOT the kind of person you make him out to be! He does not take a decision like that lightly. Do NOT judge him. He is a wonderful owner and you judging him like that is disgusting and unfair and I hate when people treat my friends that way!
> He loves Mina!


In 15 years, 20 years, I have re-homed one dog besides the puppies. That was all about the dog and the new owner. I could have taken care of that dog forever. I liked him, I loved him, I titled him, he wasn't my heart dog. 

I really don't care if it is sport, or breeding or whatever, dogs shouldn't be brought in and out like a revolving door. I don't have a problem with a dog being found a good home for the right reasons. And the right reasons for everyone might be different. 

But your friend brought this on himself, by suggesting he re-home a dog that he considers his heart-dog, for a reason that he described as something he wasn't into when he got the fifteen month old dog, but now is more important than his heart-dog. Then money he has spent on equipment and the fact that he spends so much time on it, is more important than his heart dog. I agree that not everyone understands what that means. You can love all your dogs, I have loved every dog and every puppy I ever owned and some I didn't own, but a heart-dog is way beyond love. I think we are hung up on that term. 


Ok, well for the OP, remember this is very true in breeding too, when you get everything perfect, the perfect pedigree, titles, comformation, health screening, temperament and then the dog simply does not produce. Some times you can get to hung up on what you want in a dog and what you expect from a dog, and you pay the money and you get everything just so, and the dog ends up having seizures, or drops dead from cancer. I think that when we are dealing with a live creature, we sometimes have to mold our relationship to a dog, to the dog's strengths and abilities and be greatful for the health or temperament or whatever the dog has, and when it makes sense to do so, we choose our next dog with certain things in mind but we have to be open, because some of those things go south as the dog turns out.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

a rescue volunteer tells me the main reason dogs come into rescue is not aggression, abuse, financial difficulty...it is healthy nice dogs that do not meet the owners expectation of what the breed should do. i would be interested if other rescues have their reasons for rescue documented so people could anaylse the reasons.

I am not linking this post to the OP btw.


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## KristiM (Oct 18, 2011)

Liesje said:


> I guess I don't understand this. I don't get why it's perfectly OK to rehome breeding dogs or "working" dogs (what does that mean?) or dogs that you just don't feel bonded to (see other thread) but rehoming a pet is vastly different? Is it different to the DOG? I don't think so. I guess I see it the other way around. Sometimes I see breeders moving around so many dogs it makes me sad but they get put on a pedestal and held to a different standard because they are breeders. Also I can't imagine rehoming a working dog, your partner.


A working dog is a dog with a job, not a dog that belongs to someone with a dog sport hobby. Dogs with poor temperaments shouldn't be bred...

I don't think that dogs should never be rehomed, there are plenty of good reasons. JMO that the attitude towards sports dogs kinda sucks, they are just disposable tools to compete with. My .02, I'm out.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

X11, that should be its own thread.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

gotcha


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

KristiM said:


> I don't think that dogs should never be rehomed, there are plenty of good reasons. JMO that the attitude towards sports dogs kinda sucks, they are just disposable tools to compete with. My .02, I'm out.


This is not a "sport dog" attitude. There are plenty of pet people or any people that think dogs are disposable. None of my rescue fosters have had any sport training and their owners dumped them. Can't say we've ever had a sport/SchH/IPO washout come through either rescue I volunteer for, but there are dozens of dogs in both rescues right now and when one gets adopted there are ten more to take its place. The only sport dog I've helped rehome recently was because the owner died and had failed to make arrangements for her dogs beforehand. Most sport people I know would kill for their dog. I only know one person that rehomed a sport dog because of how it performed (or didn't perform) and I didn't agree with those circumstances either. Maybe there is some pandemic of sport people dumping dogs but I'm happy to say that's not where I live and train... At my flyball club we routinely have people bring in their older dogs (that can't train and compete because of age or health issues) and play around with them. Many of these dogs made the team what it is today. Same is true at SchH club, people will bring out an older, retired dog to do some easy obedience and play around and everyone reminisces about that dog. Even washouts are welcome. I bring Coke to flyball and Schutzhund!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

KristiM said:


> A working dog is a dog with a job, not a dog that belongs to someone with a dog sport hobby. Dogs with poor temperaments shouldn't be bred...
> 
> I don't think that dogs should never be rehomed, there are plenty of good reasons. JMO that the attitude towards sports dogs kinda sucks, they are just disposable tools to compete with. My .02, I'm out.



That IS a job! Doing Sport, especially SchH, is a full time job for the dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

KristiM said:


> *A working dog is a dog with a job, not a dog that belongs to someone with a dog sport hobby. Dogs with poor temperaments shouldn't be bred..*.
> 
> I don't think that dogs should never be rehomed, there are plenty of good reasons. JMO that the attitude towards sports dogs kinda sucks, they are just disposable tools to compete with. My .02, I'm out.


I agree with you....but I don't judge sports by what some handlers do. Most treat their dog as a worthy partner and not as a piece of equipment.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

cliffson1 said:


> The best thing you can learn is next time don't come to an Internet board with this type of issue. You have to do what is in the best interest of you and your dog. If you are that vested in the sport, you could keep the dog and be a good guy, maybe get a second dog that likes this a lot, and this dog becomes relegated to second class citizen in their own house....as opposed to being somewhere where the dog could be King or Queen. Or you could deny yourself the second dog or give up the sport that you love and she is queen or king heart with an owner that is resentful. My point is, there are many endings for this story that can end happily or unhappily, and it is critical that you seek a remedy that meets both of your needs. Most opinions that can't or won't understand ALL aspects of this situation, may be well intentioned, but reality is this is a private situation that someone not walking in your moccasins can only speak for THEIR situation and not yours. You have a responsibility to do what is best for you and your dog....there is no one answer to this as some would lead you to believe.....for them maybe....but each life situation varies and good solutions abound. I wish the best for you and your dog, and if you make responsible decisions, I assure you both of you will do well!


Excellent post Cliff!


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

wow, thats the kind of post i would like to make but it never comes out that way.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Liesje said:


> This is not a "sport dog" attitude. There are plenty of pet people or any people that think dogs are disposable. None of my rescue fosters have had any sport training and their owners dumped them. Can't say we've ever had a sport/SchH/IPO washout come through either rescue I volunteer for, but there are dozens of dogs in both rescues right now and when one gets adopted there are ten more to take its place. The only sport dog I've helped rehome recently was because the owner died and had failed to make arrangements for her dogs beforehand. Most sport people I know would kill for their dog. I only know one person that rehomed a sport dog because of how it performed (or didn't perform) and I didn't agree with those circumstances either. Maybe there is some pandemic of sport people dumping dogs but I'm happy to say that's not where I live and train... At my flyball club we routinely have people bring in their older dogs (that can't train and compete because of age or health issues) and play around with them. Many of these dogs made the team what it is today. Same is true at SchH club, people will bring out an older, retired dog to do some easy obedience and play around and everyone reminisces about that dog. Even washouts are welcome. I bring Coke to flyball and Schutzhund!


Well, I am glad that is your experience. But, you should not discount the experience of others. Much like you warned others not to judge the "sport world" on this thread, don't judge others with rescue experience that goes against your particular experience in that venue... I, and others here, have worked in all breed rescues... our stories may be different from yours. But, again, speak to the same mindset of what the OP posted here.

I think we all should be concerned that there are clubs out there that actively recommend getting rid of a poor performing dog. That tarnishes the sport world, even if it is, as you suggest, not common.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Liesje said:


> This is not a "sport dog" attitude. There are plenty of pet people or any people that think dogs are disposable.


This is exactly the point I was trying to make in earlier posts! While the reasons might be different, the mindset is the same! I think we need to work to shift the mindset across the board!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you are getting IPO/SchH GSDs in your rescues please notify the local SchH clubs. I can't think of one that wouldn't condemn this and if they don't, it should be made known so people club shopping will look elsewhere. Usually when these dogs turn up, the SchH community jumps on it. For example when my acquaintance died and we found out her SchH dog had been turned over to a shelter we had so many people trying to get the dog out the shelter got overwhelmed. If you know if SchH people dumping dogs then I would like to know who they are so I can avoid paying entry fees at their trials and make sure my acquaintances never sell them a dog.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Honestly, I am so sick and tired of it. You can't re-home a dog, without the judgemental crowd coming around the corner and rip you to pieces. 

I just re-homed the first dog I ever bought and picked myself. An AWESOME working dog, I raised and trained for three years. She is a darn good dog. One heck of a search dog, searching until she drops and a hard dog that got right back up to indicate once she jumped out of a building and fell hard and yeah, I re-homed her. I did the unthinkable and disgusting thing and rehomed her. 

She is going to a place where she will be worked. A good home where the new owners are already excited to get her. 

Sometimes you have to make hard decisions. Decisions that are made for the dog and in Mina's case it's not only in J's best interest but also in HERS! 

I know what it's like to have a bitch at home that is getting frustrated because she's no longer receiving the full amount of attention and work. That is only a recipe for trouble. Indra is a darn strong bitch. Everything was fine, never had a problem with the girls until she wasn't the one being worked full time anymore. That's when she started seeking fights with Nala. 
And that also contributed to the decision I've made to re-home her. I can no longer provide the work she needs. I have no longer a search team, no longer anyone to work with and my physical condition isn't the best, so Indra was the one that left my pack. 

And oh my gosh, I might even re-home a second dog because it is going to be easier on us. Easier in our position and better for the dog. As long as you make sure that you place the dog with the right owner it's none of anyone business to judge. 

And let's face it. If no one would be selling or re-homing dogs, NONE of you would have the wonderful dog, that you call YOURS!


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Liesje said:


> If you are getting IPO/SchH GSDs in your rescues please notify the local SchH clubs. I can't think of one that wouldn't condemn this and if they don't, it should be made known so people club shopping will look elsewhere. Usually when these dogs turn up, the SchH community jumps on it. For example when my acquaintance died and we found out her SchH dog had been turned over to a shelter we had so many people trying to get the dog out the shelter got overwhelmed. If you know if SchH people dumping dogs then I would like to know who they are so I can avoid paying entry fees at their trials and make sure my acquaintances never sell them a dog.


Well, that is a pretty callous response to what should be seen as a larger issue! ETA: That only dogs that can prove their worth should be called out.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

And I agree with Lies. J. is not going to dump her at a shelter. If he does rehome her, he will find the right home for her. 

So there IS a huge difference between dumping a dog at the shelter, and actually re-homing a dog into a suitable home that fits the dog!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

LifeofRiley said:


> Well, that is a pretty callous response to what should be seen as a larger issue!



??? You seem to have implied that you've had sport dogs come through your rescue and according to this thread it has become a "sport" issue, so I'm saying that the IPO/SchH community generally rallies around any sport dog that gets dumped and would like to know about such dogs ending up in your rescue so that it can be stopped. How is that callous?!? Nevermind, we won't help then, sheesh...go on thinking that sport people just view dogs as disposable inanimate objects...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Liesje said:


> If you are getting IPO/SchH GSDs in your rescues please notify the local SchH clubs. I can't think of one that wouldn't condemn this and if they don't, it should be made known so people club shopping will look elsewhere. Usually when these dogs turn up, the SchH community jumps on it. For example when my acquaintance died and we found out her SchH dog had been turned over to a shelter we had so many people trying to get the dog out the shelter got overwhelmed. If you know if SchH people dumping dogs then I would like to know who they are so I can avoid paying entry fees at their trials and make sure my acquaintances never sell them a dog.


The dog you are writing of is still in rescue isn't he? I saw his listing last night and was surprised he's not found his place yet. 

FWIW, I _never_ see IPO trained dogs in shelters, they are re-homed within the network of trainers/breeders and friends without ever being put on a public board. The only reason the one Lies posted about above was lost in the cracks was the person who took him after he was adopted out, irresponsibly put him on CL(for sale!) instead of contacting the person who placed him with them. Had nothing to do with what he was or was not trained in.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Liesje said:


> ??? You seem to have implied that you've had sport dogs come through your rescue and according to this thread it has become a "sport" issue, so I'm saying that the IPO/SchH community generally rallies around any sport dog that gets dumped and would like to know about such dogs ending up in your rescue so that it can be stopped. How is that callous?!? Nevermind, we won't help then, sheesh...go on thinking that sport people just view dogs as disposable inanimate objects...


Hi,

Listen, I understand that there are good people in sport! I am saying that it is the MINDSET of the OP that unites him with many other people who dump dogs. For some reason, we give a pass to owners of sport dogs because they have a "goal." But, it is a hobby! 

Whatever, if the dog experts on this forum think that this is a great mindset to promote, so be it. I personally disagree with it.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Actually Jane he is and many people are furious about it. First he got so many people (most of them SchH/sport people) wanting to help him, either foster or adopt, that the shelter pulled his listing and insisted they would screen everyone. Well then K gets a call that they need help because he's still with them. First they tell the rescue, no they won't let the rescue help, and now they are saying they still have him. Well, we are still working on that and he will get his home no thanks to that shelter (and all the people that FAILED him up until that point, not his deceased owner). But anyway....


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> The dog you are writing of is still in rescue isn't he? I saw his listing last night and was surprised he's not found his place yet.
> 
> FWIW, I _never_ see IPO trained dogs in shelters, they are re-homed within the network of trainers/breeders and friends without ever being put on a public board. The only reason the one Lies posted about above was lost in the cracks was the person who took him after he was adopted out, irresponsibly put him on CL(for sale!) instead of contacting the original adopter. Had nothing to do with what he was or was not trained in.


Exactly, while we may talk on the forum about them being re-homed, they won't end up in the shelter or on craigslist or on the rescue portion of the forum. 

There have a couple of dogs been re-homed within the last year and NOT because they weren't good enough but because it was better for the dog. It has also been announced on the Forum and each handler/member had it's own reasons to re-home their dogs. I can think of two dogs that actually changed handlers. One even between two members on this forum and the dog was raised in a fantastic home and re-homed into a fantastic home. 

So judging that re-homing ultimately has to be the worst thing possible is just ludicrous!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

LifeofRiley said:


> Hi,
> 
> Listen, I understand that there are good people in sport! I am saying that it is the MINDSET of the OP that unites him with many other people who dump dogs. For some reason, we give a pass to owners of sport dogs because they have a "goal." But, it is a hobby!
> 
> Whatever, if the dog experts on this forum think that this is a great mindset to promote, so be it. I personally disagree with it.



Yeah I totally get that but what did I say that was so "callous"? I am asking for your HELP as one RESCUE person to another. But if you don't want to, OK.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

He's not dumping the dog, there is _the_ difference! A dog being rehomed responsibly is just that. At least the dog has some training...I think it would be fairly easy for someone to WANT a dog that has so much invested in her.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Liesje said:


> Actually Jane he is and many people are furious about it. First he got so many people (most of them SchH/sport people) wanting to help him, either foster or adopt, that the shelter pulled his listing and insisted they would screen everyone. Well then K gets a call that they need help because he's still with them. First they tell the rescue, no they won't let the rescue help, and now they are saying they still have him. Well, we are still working on that and he will get his home no thanks to that shelter (and all the people that FAILED him up until that point, not his deceased owner). But anyway....


There was a similar situation in Germany not to long ago where a SchH dog and two of his sons ended up in the Shelter and the whole SchH community wanted to help. The dog was in the shelter longer than he had to be but eventually got pulled by a dedicated SchH'ler and Rescuer. She got him a nice home. 

It is very very rare that a SchH dog ends up in a Shelter and if they do, you can bet that the Community pulls together and gets that dog out!


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Hi Liesje,

Sorry that I apparently misread the intention of your post, I will absolutely keep you posted on dogs that come into our rescue


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> He's not dumping the dog, there is _the_ difference! A dog being rehomed responsibly is just that. At least the dog has some training...I think it would be fairly easy for someone to WANT a dog that has so much invested in her.


If your read back to my earlier posts, you will understand the context of the later posts


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

I agree with Lesje and Cliff.

I have 0 experience in the sports world. My dog's only job is a family pet. But heck, if she turned out to not be a good family dog (not like children, dislike petting, too high energy, etc) and wouldn't be loved fully at my house, I think it would do us both good to have her go to a different home. In fact, when I just got her and was feeling really overwhelmed, I had received advice from GSD folk from all walks of ownership asking me to reconsider our fit. It does neither dog nor owner good to not be 100% in love with each other, as is the case here.

This dog would get more elsewhere. Isn't that BETTER for the dog?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Originally Posted by onyx'girl 
He's not dumping the dog, there is the difference! A dog being rehomed responsibly is just that. At least the dog has some training...I think it would be fairly easy for someone to WANT a dog that has so much invested in her.


LifeofRiley said:


> If your read back to my earlier posts, you will understand the context of the later posts





LifeofRiley said:


> Hi,
> 
> Listen, I understand that there are good people in sport! I am saying that it is the MINDSET of the OP that unites him with many other people who dump dogs. For some reason, we give a pass to owners of sport dogs because they have a "goal." But, it is a hobby!
> 
> Whatever, if the dog experts on this forum think that this is a great mindset to promote, so be it. I personally disagree with it.


I was replying to this, and you posted it, the context is right there. Why would I need to quote all of your posts when I was replying to this one? I have read, and read, and read....


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

marshies said:


> In fact, when I just got her and was feeling really overwhelmed, I had received advice from GSD folk from all walks of ownership asking me to reconsider our fit. It does neither dog nor owner good to not be 100% in love with each other, as is the case here.
> 
> This dog would get more elsewhere. Isn't that BETTER for the dog?


Marshies, are you re-homing your dog?


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> Marshies, are you re-homing your dog?


Why do you ask?


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

marshies said:


> Why do you ask?


According to your post, you received advice from GSD people, what was your conclusion? Probably not an appropriate question for this thread. Sorry if I over-stepped:blush:


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If she's talking about the thread(s) I think, that was a while back, and yes people did advise her to re-home or return the dog.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> According to your post, you received advice from GSD people, what was your conclusion? Probably not an appropriate question for this thread. Sorry if I over-stepped:blush:


No no, I was just curious as to why you asked, since I thought my post was conclusive enough. Guess I still gotta hone those thread-writing skills. :laugh:

My conclusion was, no, she was probably not a great fit. In fact, she was probably a wrong breed, maybe even a wrong species all together. At my stage in life, the most pet I probably should've thought about was a cat, not a demanding GSD. I STILL think she would've been happier and better served in another home. I was SELFISH in my decision to keep her. I was selfish because I wanted a dog, and I knew if I gave her back to my breeder, there would be no way my parents would agree to me getting another one to replace her - GSD or easier breed. So even though I didn't and still don't have the handling skills to train her, or all the time she would like me to have to play with her, I kept her. 

I see dogs that live better lives than her ALL the time, and I feel a little guilty. These dogs are better behaved, have less crate time, more play time, more people time...the list goes on.

That's why I support the OP's decision. Though we are both being selfish in different ways, his seflish serves the dog BETTER than my selfish. His TRAINED dog would go on to live a GREAT life being someone else's PRINCESS, instead of his resource drain.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Marshies,

Don't beat yourself up! You are providing the most important things - love, commitment and understanding!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

One thing that people seem to do is bemoan the fact their dog doesn't get "enough time", top-of-the-line diet, a huge plush bed, sleep on the bed, a spot on the floor all to them, etc. etc. etc.

What folks forget is, dogs are happy in the moment, they live in the moment.
A walk, a cuddle, a healthy meal, a blanket on the floor, it's good enough - because dogs don't miss what they don't have.

People think "if I only had a bigger house...", "if I only had the newest car..." etc.

Dogs never do that! 
Dogs are happy with what they have and that's probably what attracts us to them.
"Treated like a princess"? What does that mean?? Does that mean that 1x a week to the groomer, a fancier collar than you can find at Walmart, a sweater or jacket, what?
Do you think dogs care about that stuff? Not really.

Laying by our woodstove, cuddled on a blankie, a bowl of Kirkland (which they go nuts over) and they are happy.

Marshies, I think you compare yourself to other dog owners too much


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> Marshies,
> 
> Don't beat yourself up! You are providing the most important things - love, commitment and understanding!


Thanks! 

But I guess we differ in our thought process.

Love isn't enough for anyone, certainly not a working breed dog. They need proper care, training, leadership, and companionship. I think my dog and the OP's dog could get more of that, and more understanding of their needs, in another home. In my case, I compromised my dog's needs to meet human needs. In his case, it makes even more sense to rehome because both of their needs would be better met, and it isn't a trade off.

Commitment is a human trait, it means little to my dog. She would've bonded marvelously with another person in time as well


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

marshies said:


> Thanks!
> 
> But I guess we differ in our thought process.
> 
> ...


I'm not suggesting anything but it sounds like the OP's dog would be better for you and yours better for him.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> One thing that people seem to do is bemoan the fact their dog doesn't get "enough time", top-of-the-line diet, a huge plush bed, sleep on the bed, a spot on the floor all to them, etc. etc. etc.
> 
> What folks forget is, dogs are happy in the moment, they live in the moment.
> A walk, a cuddle, a healthy meal, a blanket on the floor, it's good enough - because dogs don't miss what they don't have.
> ...


I agree with you on the material goods. My dog doesn't care if she's eating Orijen topped with yogurt, oils, and other goodies or Iams...BUT, I think it does make a difference when it comes to time for exercise and training.

Thread isn't about me or my dog, but I just think that the OP is not WRONG to consider rehoming. I'm just using my example to illustrate how sometimes keeping the dog isn't the best thing for the dog. Also, when I was feeling overwhelmed way back when, a post that stuck out to me was that there is really no point in keeping the dog if your heart isn't in it 100%.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I'm not suggesting anything but it sounds like the OP's dog would be better for you and yours better for him.


Haha. No. My dog isn't what the OP is looking for. Plus, I've worked hard to try to meet her needs, and I think I have the bare minimum covered...so I don't think the heartbreak to both of us would justify the better care she would receive YET.

I was just using my situation to say, keeping a dog isn't always the RIGHT thing to do, or the best for the dog. It's a choice people make for a number of reasons. We should be less critical of the OP, and laud them for putting in training and time into a dog. This dog would be very appreciated by someone who might not have the same skills to train dogs, and want an obedient companion. The OP can go on to train a puppy like the OP wants to the sporting level the OP wants.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

While my opinion may not mean much, I'm going to thro it out there.

I think what is in the best interest of the dog is what's important. 

I do think what get's people's ire up, is saying "this is my heart dog" because I can't imagine re-homing my heart dog. 

I also agree when you (general you/anybody) puts this on an internet forum with a bunch of gsd lovers, you are opening up a can of worms. So keep it to yourself, we (general we) don't want to know and you (general you) won't open yourself up to being criticized for your decision.

Rehoming dogs is not exclusive to one group. Some people, and I see it here, are just "collectors" , impulsively getting dog(s) they end up with more than they can handle, arent working out, rehome them. 

I'm certainly not saying this is a "bad" thing, because again, it's about the DOG. but in some instances I've seen, it's more about the "person" who needs to stop, be realistic about what you have, what you want and deal with it.

If the OP came on here and said, "I think she would be better off in another home" I think this thread would not have become so volatile. 

JUst my 2cents


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> While my opinion may not mean much, I'm going to thro it out there.
> 
> I think what is in the best interest of the dog is what's important.
> 
> ...


I am going to be honest here. With everything going on in my life, if I had known what I know now, I would have never taken onto a fourth dog, ever. 
If I had known that my husband was getting demoted and we are on the brink of this kind of disaster in our personal life, the last thing I would have done was taking in another dog and a Malinois at that. 

She can be a pain in the butt and will give you the run around. My physical condition has worsened, also due to the stress so I have to concentrate on myself on top of that and all these factors are the reason why I'm downzising. 

It really sucks and it hurts because I don't view any of our dogs as piece of equipment. If they were, our couch and bed would be dog hair free and they'd spend their time in a kennel downstairs, rather than with us, snuggling on the couch. 

You get attached to the dog and the dog gets attached to you but you cannot keep them all. 

Also, the hypocrisy of some breeders is mindblowing. I won't get into it because it'll blow the topic up even more but if you speak out against re-homing but produce litters... maybe you are in the wrong business.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Jakoda, that's part of it but the other part is...people who are actually dog people doing it. 
And the callousness of it...I think is what's bothering folks. 
Just talking about her like she's yesterday's news, she's nothing special, no sparkle, just a hum-drum dog now that he's got the spiffy new one, and so out she goes.

I could actually accept "they hate each other" more, except then we'd advise finding the new one a home since Mina was there first. At least that's kind of "legit", if you will.

Not..."well, I want to do [whatever], and Mina just isn't cut out for it, so out she goes". 
"I want the newer, fancier dog". 

I could accept that kind of attitude from someone who got a dog off craigslist, maybe (and know some people like that) but this is just a bit harsh.



> it's more about the "person" who needs to stop, be realistic about what you have, what you want and deal with it.


THIS exactly. It's not about the rehoming...it's more of a reality check. And mycobra took the reality check and instead of saying, "Gosh I love my dog, I'm gonna keep this broken little piece of fluff and love her and work with her in a venue she's fine with", it's "I wanna become a big shot Sch whatever, so gonna ditch Mina and get a newer, glitzier model".

As a rescuer that just...it is so _typical_ and not in a warm fuzzy way. And, that why so many responded, "send her here, she can sit around the house being a pet all day", because some of us love our dogs just the way they are, we don't expect them to do things they cannot do or we'll get rid of them.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

There is nothing callous about it! 

If he is doing SchH, and he's not only a handler but also a helper, there is not going to be much time left for Mina. So is she supposed to sit along at home all day long? Not getting the attention she deserves? 

You cannot keep them all and it's more abusive for a dog to be at home and emotionally neglected rather than being rehomed with the right people. 

If he would dump her in a shelter I would understand but tell me what the heck is wrong with rehoming a dog into a new home, that you have picked and that's working with you. 

If people wouldn't rehome their dogs and keep them all, none of you would actually have one!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> So is she supposed to sit along at home all day long? Not getting the attention she deserves?


See, this is what I don't get...why do people assume this? Also, what do folks who work 8-9 hrs. a day (plus commute time) do??

Not every sits home all day gazing into their dogs eyes, I don't think? In the evening, when you return home, you pet the dog and walk it or let it outside, just like everyone else who is gone all day.

I'm always slightly bemused (and saddened) when I see craiglist posts that way "we're just gone too much to keep Rover any longer, we work 8hrs. a day" when I just got an application from an adopter who works 8hrs. a day and will make it work with the dog, because they _want_ it to work.


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

Giving her to a new home may be better of for her. If hes dedicated to the sport and his dogs arent 'pets' then all that she is going to do is get neglected while another dog is being trained. If you LOVE the dog as much as you say you do than this whole convo should have never started. But if you are going to see her as a failure or waste of time then give her up, someone else will love and care for her.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> See, this is what I don't get...why do people assume this? Also, what do folks who work 8-9 hrs. a day (plus commute time) do??
> 
> Not every sits home all day gazing into their dogs eyes, I don't think? In the evening, when you return home, you pet the dog and walk it or let it outside, just like everyone else who is gone all day.
> 
> I'm always slightly bemused (and saddened) when I see craiglist posts that way "we're just gone too much to keep Rover any longer, we work 8hrs. a day" when I just got an application from an adopter who works 8hrs. a day and will make it work with the dog, because they _want_ it to work.



Schutzhund is three phases. THREE. Obedience, Protection and Tracking. It e takes a big deal of work. On top he is a HELPER, and works all the dogs in the club. So he not only has to train to be that helper but to train his own dogs. 
Working a dog out on the field IS work. If you have a fulltime job on top of that, you can't do anything else. It's your life! All you do, it is revolving around the sport and it becomes an obsession. 
Most your friends become people that are in the sport because many won't understand why you can't go out, since you have to get up early in the morning to lay your track. 
Or why you don't make it that Saturday to the birthday party, since you are out trialing the dog. 

If he wants to go in big, and be a helper on top, he's not going to have time for another dog. 

You know what's going to happen? If Mina is anywhere near like Indra, she will develope a hatred for the other bitch. 
In the end, I couldn't have Indra in a crate next to Nala because she started fighting her through the crate. Especially since she was my main dog in SAR and was used to being worked on a regular basis. 

It isn't fair to the dog. It isn't fair to him and as long as you responsibly re-home the dog, there is NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING wrong with it! PERIOD!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> she will develope a hatred for the other bitch.


This is already happening and may be part of the reason for a new home for Mina. But also, the OP knew he was bringing another bitch into the home when he got Heidi.

Mrs K, you can get all kinds of worked up and those of us who feel this way aren't going to change our minds. 

I thought I explained adequately why I felt the way I do, you can come in and say "Oh, you are wrong for how you feel" but it doesn't work like that, unfortunately.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> This is already happening and may be part of the reason for a new home for Mina. But also, the OP knew he was bringing another bitch into the home when he got Heidi.
> 
> Mrs K, you can get all kinds of worked up and those of us who feel this way aren't going to change our minds.
> 
> I thought I explained adequately why I felt the way I do, you can come in and say "Oh, you are wrong for how you feel" but it doesn't work like that, unfortunately.


And I fully understand, however, you have to differ between those that responsibly place/sell their dogs within their own network and those who dump their dogs on craigslist or into a kill shelter, or worse, abandon them on the side of the road. 

We are not the same kind of people. We know exactly what the dog needs and the strength and weaknesses of our dogs and can place them adequately. And most of the time it goes fast and we don't have the same issues that you see on craigslist where someone posts a new post each day and gets more desperate by the second. 

It is actually kind of insulting to put us into the same boat as that kind of crowd.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> THIS exactly. It's not about the rehoming...it's more of a reality check. And mycobra took the reality check and instead of saying, "Gosh I love my dog, I'm gonna keep this broken little piece of fluff and love her and work with her in a venue she's fine with", it's "I wanna become a big shot Sch whatever, so gonna ditch Mina and get a newer, glitzier model".


If you'd read my post, you'd see I understand exactly what's going on.
And the CL people manage to justify their rehomings, too.



> that kind of crowd.


That kind of crowd? The kind that says "I love my dog so much I'm going to get rid of it, for it's own good"?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Here's why this is a hot button topic and the "pet" people will never understand the "sport" people...

I started golfing 3 years ago, purchased a starter set of golf clubs for $200. After one year, I realized I was getting much better, and decided to replace that set of golf clubs with a proper golf set that I pieced together like most golfers do that fit my game better and make the likelihood of success much greater.

Take that story, replace golf club with dog.

Add onto that...greatest dog ever, love of my life, ect, ect. Biggest mistake OP made...posting this on the forum.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

Biggest mistake OP made...posting this on the forum.[/QUOTE] This is what I said like 7 pages ago :laugh:


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> If you'd read my post, you'd see I understand exactly what's going on.
> And the CL people manage to justify their rehomings, too.
> 
> 
> That kind of crowd? The kind that says "I love my dog so much I'm going to get rid of it, for it's own good"?


That has NOTHING to do with it. 

He has worked that dog, put a lot of money into it. That dog has never spent a day without being truly part of a family. You don't get it and you'll never get it!


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## zivagirl (Jan 5, 2013)

I don't think this is a pet people/sport people thing given that the OP's original intention for this dog had nothing to do with the sport. As he states, he just sort of 'fell into' it.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

x11 said:


> if there is only one then the statement is true.


Not really. If there is only one then a true statement will start with "one trainer I know..." not "so many trainers in the sports world"... You do always come off as bashing the so called "sports world" but without knowing too much about this "so called sports world"... not sure why, but just saying, so people don't value your opinions more than they should


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

zivagirl said:


> I don't think this is a pet people/sport people thing given that the OP's original intention for this dog had nothing to do with the sport. As he states, he just sort of 'fell into' it.


Well there was that statement before he said he got the dog with the intention it "should work".


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

zivagirl said:


> I don't think this is a pet people/sport people thing given that the OP's original intention for this dog had nothing to do with the sport. As he states, he just sort of 'fell into' it.


I don't think it matters when the competition bug bit the OP, it just did. So just because he got this dog before hand, and it was the dog he learned with, doesn't mean he's clearly not a person that now thinks of himself as more sport than pet.

Is he probably getting pressure from some of the club members? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that its his decision in the end. I got my dog with plans for purely pet things. Joined a club, started competing (not Schutzhund), and now I love the fact that he enjoys it and excels in it as much as he does. That being said, my goal is to get a UDX on him, but if it doesn't work out, the thought of rehoming would never even enter my mind. But I'm also not as committed to the sport as OP is to his.

I think the problem most people have with the thread is that the decisions are being made BECAUSE of the SPORT and not BECAUSE of the DOG. OP got another female BECAUSE he wanted something better for his SPORT. Now that female has problems with the older one and if that was the first reason, the nail in the coffin is OP wants another dog good for the SPORT. No time for 3 dogs, or better yet, no time for 2 sport dogs and 1 pet dog (would be ignored) and I completely understand that.

It's a moral issue. I could've predicted that 99% of the forum would have an issue with rehoming this dog and the other 1% would be fine with it. And the 99% definitely understand the reasons, they just don't agree with them, and never will.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

> It's a moral issue. I could've predicted that 99% of the forum would have an issue with rehoming this dog and the other 1% would be fine with it. And the 99% definitely understand the reasons, they just don't agree with them, and never will.


Most people who actually understand his dilemna are not even speaking up because they just don't care to pick a fight with those ripping J. apart. They will probably send him supporting personal messages!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

OP is not dumping his dog. He is rehoming to a good home with a family member and will be able to maintain contact with the dog. He can continue to follow the dog and be a part of her life. 

Not all owners can keep every single dog that comes into their home. This is especially not feasible for people that show, or do sport competitively. Sorry - realistically it is simply not possible to keep every single dog that you breed or buy if you do sport/show. All of those "reputable" breeders with dogs that the board regularly ogles over do this on a consistent basis in order to maintain a successful breeding program. If you do not wash out dogs that don't cut it, a kennel or competitor will implode on themselves keeping every single dog that comes through the door. The dogs that are not kept are homed to good homes - of course, like with anything in life, you cannot guarantee anything, but you vet the homes and place the dog with responsibility. To me, this is NOT a negative when done with careful consideration. OP is not dumping the dog in the shelter - he is asking questions and thinking out loud about issues that *most* of us that have done the sport have asked of our own dogs.

Now a small point to OP about taking advice from "experts":
My dogs have been insulted to no end. People are nasty, rude, and dismissive to my face. People have told me they are no good and should be washed out. People that have never stepped on the field rolleyes have told me my dogs are crap. But I know what my dog is capable of, what her limits are, her strengths/weaknesses, and what I can achieve with her so I forge ahead with determination and dedication. MORE than one trainer has told me my dog is worthless when they see her...only to do a 180 after seeing her work. There are "experts" and "trainers" at every club...be careful whose advice you take. Be completely honest and open with yourself about your dog's capabilities. There will ALWAYS be naysayers that insult, and demean your dog. You must exercise careful judgement and rely on your OWN knowledge/experience with your dog in order to figure out how to move forward. Take the outside advice into consideration, but always consider the source and take into account their bias....ask yourself if they have an agenda and why they say what they say. If I washed my dogs out each time someone insulted me, I would have no dogs at all. In this difficult sport with a thunderous and obnoxious peanut gallery chiming in at every turn, it is very easy to be swayed one way or another. I believe the handler must be the dog's greatest advocate when doing the sport. One must believe in their dog in order to overcome the inevitable obstacles that come up in this sport - I truly believe the dog knows and feels everything you do...it goes down the leash and influences your dog. If you do not believe she can cut it and needs to be a pet only, she does not need to be worked halfheartedly. Be realistic and honest about your dog....if you no longer wish to work your dog out of your own careful judgement and consideration...that is ok, but do not prematurely let others be the final word on your dog.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

qbchottu said:


> OP is not dumping his dog. He is rehoming to a good home with a family member and will be able to maintain contact with the dog. He can continue to follow the dog and be a part of her life.
> 
> Not all owners can keep every single dog that comes into their home. This is especially not feasible for people that show, or do sport competitively. Sorry - realistically it is simply not possible to keep every single dog that you breed or buy if you do sport/show. *All of those "reputable" breeders with dogs that the board regularly ogles over do this on a consistent basis in order to maintain a successful breeding program. *If you do not wash out dogs that don't cut it, a kennel or competitor will implode on themselves keeping every single dog that comes through the door. The dogs that are not kept are homed to good homes - of course, like with anything in life, you cannot guarantee anything, but you vet the homes and place the dog with responsibility. To me, this is NOT a negative when done with careful consideration. OP is not dumping the dog in the shelter - he is asking questions and thinking out loud about issues that *most* of us that have done the sport have asked of our own dogs.
> 
> ...



:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> The best thing you can learn is next time don't come to an Internet board with this type of issue. You have to do what is in the best interest of you and your dog. If you are that vested in the sport, you could keep the dog and be a good guy, maybe get a second dog that likes this a lot, and this dog becomes relegated to second class citizen in their own house....as opposed to being somewhere where the dog could be King or Queen. Or you could deny yourself the second dog or give up the sport that you love and she is queen or king heart with an owner that is resentful. My point is, there are many endings for this story that can end happily or unhappily, and it is critical that you seek a remedy that meets both of your needs. Most opinions that can't or won't understand ALL aspects of this situation, may be well intentioned, but reality is this is a private situation that someone not walking in your moccasins can only speak for THEIR situation and not yours. You have a responsibility to do what is best for you and your dog....there is no one answer to this as some would lead you to believe.....for them maybe....but each life situation varies and good solutions abound. I wish the best for you and your dog, and if you make responsible decisions, I assure you both of you will do well!


I just wanted to post the voice of reason once again....


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

My NY resolution....state my piece and not argue with.......! But I will still try to look at the reality side as opposed to the emotional side.....lol


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## zivagirl (Jan 5, 2013)

Well, if nothing else, I'm learning what I can and can't post....and that everyone has an opinion and most believe that theirs is the correct one.

I'm not out to convert anyone to my way of thinking or to be converted. I'm simply looking to inform myself and explore why I believe the way I believe and why others believe the way they believe. 

'When you know better, you do better' - Maya Angelou


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

ziva your right 

I guess I don't 'get' how people with a couple or more dogs do find time to work them all..I have worked 3 at one time, granted it wasn't schutzhund, but I found the time, classes, 3 nights a week, and the 4th wasn't ignored AND I worked So it can be done...but to each his own I figure. 

I also am not trying to convert anyone nor wish to be converted, it is what it is and in the end it does not affect "me" personally it just seems to be a hot button.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> There are "experts" and "trainers" at every club...be careful whose advice you take.


_This _is the voice of reason :thumbup:
Especially because a lot of experienced folks are saying the same thing...!



JakodaCD OA said:


> I guess I don't 'get' how people with a couple or more dogs do find time to work them all..I have worked 3 at one time, granted it wasn't schutzhund, but I found the time, classes, 3 nights a week, and the 4th wasn't ignored AND I worked So it can be done...but to each his own I figure.


:thumbup:

And Ziva, you're right. I sometimes want to post on here about things that are bothering me, or that have come up, but since the forum is judge, jury and executioner (of which I sometimes find myself a part of as well) I tend to not ask for advice as much as, well, give it


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> One thing that people seem to do is bemoan the fact their dog doesn't get "enough time", top-of-the-line diet, a huge plush bed, sleep on the bed, a spot on the floor all to them, etc. etc. etc.
> 
> What folks forget is, dogs are happy in the moment, they live in the moment.
> A walk, a cuddle, a healthy meal, a blanket on the floor, it's good enough - because dogs don't miss what they don't have.
> ...


See, if what you have said in this post is true then why the uproar about the dog going to live with the sister??
If his sister is to provide this dog with all of the things he does and maybe more, then why is this such an issue??
If dogs live in the moment why is the dog going to be unhappy in a new home providing all the things you have mentioned??
My answer to this question is that this thread in all of its 20 plus pages is not about THIS individual dog and owner, it is about all the dogs that get dumped in shelters each day because of WHAT APPEARS TO BE similar reasons. 
Just another thread where the OP is to be judged because of the wrongs of the the majority instead of it being looked at in a case by case way.
If the dog is to be cared for and happy, the owner is satisfied he has done everything to ensure the new owner is a fit......I just don't see the issue in *this particular case.*


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

When I purchased my current girl my intention was for her to be a deterrent and a protector. I also was considering sport but not too seriously. The dog turned out to be fear reactive, working with her daily to see if she can ever get on the sleeve. I turned out to really enjoy Schutzhund. 
Its possible she is still young and may be able to get over the hump. Then again genetics are a huge mountain to climb so she may never get to that point. If she doesnt then I may consider rehoming as an option. For me a dog provides utility as well as companionship. While a reactive dog can be worked with, managed, trained and make a decent pet for the right person it will likely not make any kind of protector for family and home not to mention sport work.
If thats what you want in a dog and she cant give it you then you make a tough choice. Regardless of what the peanut gallery on the forums are trying to imply, you can't own a dog for years and put training, money and time into it without having an emotional attachment.
Many people on here are just pet people, good for you I say but your sometimes judgemental attitude can be rather grating at times.
The only reason we ever domesticated dogs was for utility, companionship was a bonus. The only reason you can even own GSDs or any other breed for that matter was that people bought, sold, traded and culled dogs and pups in their breeding program and still do. 
You just want a pet and to love your dog good for you, but there are still many people in the dog world (thank god) that value working ability and require that their dog have it. Many of those people are still drawn to German Shepherds because they where designed to be WORKING DOGS. 

Look at it this way whoever ultimately gets this dog it will be one highly trained pet.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is all just semantics. There is a big difference between a heart dog, and a dog you love. Unless you have had that special relationship, you cannot possibly understand the difference and why some of us are freaking out over the idea of rehoming a heart dog because you grew out of her. A heart dog is a two way street, and the one that initiates and draws the heavier load is the dog. The dog connects with the owner, chooses the owner, understands the owner, loves the owner with a raw, deep canine loyalty/love/understanding/bond, that makes rehoming this dog a crime. 

These are the dogs that we hear about that lay on their owner's grave. We are not talking about whether the dog will be fed orijen, taken to doggy parks, dressed in cutesy tu tus. That has nothing to do with it at all. When there is that deep connection between the dog and the owner, that maybe happens once in a lifetime, and if you are lucky you can maybe experience something close again. Maybe, you just don't consider giving that dog to your sister or your best friend, or even your mother. 

Maybe you get another dog to go running with, or to do sport with or to whatever. A heart-dog is NEVER too much hassel, too much training, too much work, too much anything other than grief at the passing. 

Every dog you love and train and care for is not a heart dog. You cannot buy a heart dog, you cannot make a dog a heart dog. You can have a devoted, loyal, sweet, obedient, beautiful, awesome in every way dog that you love to pieces that isn't a heart dog. 

Most of the reasons people will rehome a dog, including this one, seem pretty shallow to me. But I generally think that if someone is considering rehoming the dog, the bond (normal bond can happen without it being a heart dog) isn't really all that great, and rehoming the dog is probably the best bet if it is gone about responsibly.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Right, and because re-homing is shallow you produced litter after litter and re-homed those pups and put them into the possible situation of being passed around....

Oh the irony and hypocrisy....mindblowing....


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Well I can't speak for the OP, but I have thought of rehoming my own GSD. Not that I actually would, but it does cross my mind at times. Why? Because I originally got him to do sports with and with severe bilateral HD that dream went down the drain. My 1st dog has luxating patellas so no competitive sports there either. Sure, I could get another dog, but that puts me at 3 dogs and if the 3rd dog came up with a health problem then I'll be at 3 pets. 

The last thing I want is 3 pets; I don't even really want 3 dogs, but I also don't want to push my "sick" dog(s?) onto anyone else. So it comes down to 3 options - 1) get a 3rd dog 2) wait until 1 passes 3)rehome a dog. Well seeing as how my current two are 3.5 and 1.5 years old I doubt #2 will happen anytime soon so the only other option (if rehoming is not an option) would be #1. 

Will I rehome one of my dogs? No, not for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I'd call them my "heart dog(s)", but I love them (and vice versa) and I can't see myself letting them go. I will make it work somehow. I don't resent my dogs for being unable to do sports, I'm sure they didn't wish to have health problems, but sometimes I do feel disappointment in being unable to participate. I can't judge the OP, I don't know his situation well enough, but if Mina is going to be ignored or resented she may be better off in a new home.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Mrs.K said:


> Right, and because re-homing is shallow you produced litter after litter and re-homed those pups and put them into the possible situation of being passed around....
> 
> Oh the irony and hypocrisy....mindblowing....


Hypocrisy _how_?? 
Many people want a purebred dog, a well-bred dog. 
You don't breed litters with the intention of keeping them all, then decide at 2-3yrs. "they don't get along" and up and get rid of them.
Two totally different things :thinking:


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

With all due respect, let's not go into the aspect of what is quality breeding. 

If you have issues with people re-homing their dogs, then you don't toss more dogs into an already oversatuated market.


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## HankGSD (Oct 28, 2010)

My opinion would be if someone is even thinking of re-homing their dog then it's already over. Very sad, but I am sure there are many who would love, adore and cherish this girl. 

I will not judge the OP, although I would like to. Let's just hope for a loving forever home.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Ah but in another thread, someone's complaining that the dogs in rescue are "shabby", so yes, there's always room for good breeders in the world. 
Rehoming your personal dog you've had for years isn't raising puppies to sell...and you're coming awfully close to breeder bashing, aren't you?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> Ah but in another thread, someone's complaining that the dogs in rescue are "shabby", so yes, there's always room for good breeders in the world.
> Rehoming your personal dog you've had for years isn't raising puppies to sell...and you're coming awfully close to breeder bashing, aren't you?


Me? Breeder bashing? :wild: :rofl:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mrs.K said:


> Right, and because re-homing is shallow you produced litter after litter and re-homed those pups and put them into the possible situation of being passed around....
> 
> Oh the irony and hypocrisy....mindblowing....


Mrs. K, I really have no clue what you are talking about. I have never considered rehoming any of my breeding bitches. Sorry. I have several bitches here that I have dropped from my program, never bred and am keeping and working with just the same. I only rehomed a dog after having used him once for breeding, partly because he did not produce the type of dog I wanted to produce. And even then, I kept him and worked him for a year, and only sold him when someone came to me looking for a dog with all the qualifications he had. I never replaced him either. I currently don't have a dog. 

But whatever, you are comparing apples to oranges, as usual. 

But let's talk about you, for a moment. Before you ever got the Mal, your marriage was on the rocks and your husband's job was uncertain, and you weren't communicating with him about bringing yet another bitch into your situation. 

We, many of us advised against it. But you strode forward and brought in yet another dog. So now you have gotten rid of the Malinois, and now are whining about getting rid of Indra. Talk about revolving doors. I guess I should be happy they are going to new homes and not being put down, but still. I really don't care if you have dogs because you work with them, do sport with them, show them, breed them. Rehoming a dog is ok if it is better for all three parties involved: the old owner, the new owner and the dog, and probably not in that order. If you can pass that test, then why even come on the internet and ask if it is a good idea?

ETA: I did not say re-homing was shallow. I said most of the reasons to re-home dogs are shallow.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

selzer said:


> It is all just semantics. There is a big difference between a heart dog, and a dog you love. Unless you have had that special relationship, you cannot possibly understand the difference and why some of us are freaking out over the idea of rehoming a heart dog because you grew out of her. A heart dog is a two way street, and the one that initiates and draws the heavier load is the dog. The dog connects with the owner, chooses the owner, understands the owner, loves the owner with a raw, deep canine loyalty/love/understanding/bond, that makes rehoming this dog a crime.
> 
> These are the dogs that we hear about that lay on their owner's grave. We are not talking about whether the dog will be fed orijen, taken to doggy parks, dressed in cutesy tu tus. That has nothing to do with it at all. When there is that deep connection between the dog and the owner, that maybe happens once in a lifetime, and if you are lucky you can maybe experience something close again. Maybe, you just don't consider giving that dog to your sister or your best friend, or even your mother.
> 
> ...


You said this so beautifully you made me cry. I would give everything to have one more day with my ♥ dog and someone is talking about throwing his away. That just makes me sick!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> Mrs. K, I really have no clue what you are talking about. I have never considered rehoming any of my breeding bitches. Sorry. I have several bitches here that I have dropped from my program, never bred and am keeping and working with just the same. I only rehomed a dog after having used him once for breeding, partly because he did not produce the type of dog I wanted to produce. And even then, I kept him and worked him for a year, and only sold him when someone came to me looking for a dog with all the qualifications he had. I never replaced him either. I currently don't have a dog.
> 
> But whatever, you are comparing apples to oranges, as usual.
> 
> ...


I tried to reply to what you replied to...I typed erased typed, then I went to another thread. You said it so much better then I typed erased and typed


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## GusGus (Oct 24, 2012)

I am sorry I only read to page 9..but here is my 2 cents:

I got my boy from a BYB and he is my first dog. I didn't know much about GSD's or the breeding. So I bought him and now I am learning all the sports and fun things to get involved in. He's even having some difficulty with things like recall. I think it would be really fun to get him into SCH later on.

I didn't do my research and now who knows how well he will do at anything, but my fiancé just got a puppy and he is learning better and more obedient faster than my boy was doing these things. It stinks to see that, I know. But personally if he doesn't work out doing anything but being a best friend..he will always be my best friend. 

If you don't want to invest any more time/money into your dog..don't. Do what is going to be best for the dog. 

I am completely content with taking my dog for walks and watching movies with him. If you dont want that, just make sure your dog goes to a perfect home where he can be loved no matter what.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> A heart dog is a two way street, and the one that initiates and draws the heavier load is the dog. The dog connects with the owner, chooses the owner, understands the owner, loves the owner with a raw, deep canine loyalty/love/understanding/bond, that makes rehoming this dog a crime.
> 
> .



I truly think that I'm blessed enough to have two of them at the same time. My Golden and my GSD are exactly as you describe. They are with me all the time and I can feel the love. My oldest girl, not so much. She's very independent and I think she would do fine without me, no I know she would, but I love her and would do anything for her


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Again I feel I must clear things up. 

1) Heidi and Mina don't get along. They also don't spend any time together. They are working dogs. They aren't just running around the house free. Yes, I brought Heidi in but after seeing that Heidi and Mina didn't get along my gf and I (we live together) decided she would handle Heidi since she has been wanting to get into the sport and her pitbull is not aloud to at this club. So Heidi is HER dog. Not mine! I'm still doing helper/decoy work on the dog. So the fact they don't get along doesn't matter! 

2) Maybe I haven't found my heart dog. All I know is that I have NEVER had a dog like Mina! I have loved every dog I have had, but not like her. I have never had this type of bond with a dog. It's probably due to the fact that we have trained 30 plus hours a week since the day I got her and been doing protection sports since she was 12 weeks. You can learn a lot about a dog in that amount of time. 

3) I'm having trouble understanding how POSSIBLY placing a highly trained very well behaved dog in a home that would love her as a pet. Her biggest concern would be where they were going camping or hiking for the day is an awful thing. I also am not understanding how all the dogs in shelters or on CL is my fault. 

4) All I said was that I was THINKING about it. Not that it was going to happen. I have been told she will never be able to compete. Not that she will score low, but never. There is a big difference. I have been talking to my old club and trainer as well as this is a huge decision for me. I am trying to look at all angles and decide what is the best option. I am a one dog handler. I will not let her sit in the house and go crazy because she used to being worked and getting out. If I brought another dog in, she would hardly leave the house as I don't have the time for that. So instead of hoarding every dog I come accross I would rather see her happy. 

5) This is the most important! Stop judging me and each other. I'm sorry I started this thread. I don't want to see people get banned or lose a friendship online or not over somthing like this. I was just trying to get it out of my head. While many of you where judging me I was actually out working my dog. Not online talking about it.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> Again I feel I must clear things up.
> 
> 1) Heidi and Mina don't get along. They also don't spend any time together. They are working dogs. They aren't just running around the house free. Yes, I brought Heidi in but after seeing that Heidi and Mina didn't get along my gf and I (we live together) decided she would handle Heidi since she has been wanting to get into the sport and her pitbull is not aloud to at this club. So Heidi is HER dog. Not mine! I'm still doing helper/decoy work on the dog. So the fact they don't get along doesn't matter!
> 
> ...


Good luck on whatever you choose!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If it is better for you, for the other owner, and the dog, than it really shouldn't be a question. 

I agree that hoarding every dog you come across is not a good thing. I think the reason some of us will not rehome one of our dogs is because we cannot be certain about where the dog is going to. 12 week old puppies are pretty much in demand, and we can often pick and choose good homes. 15 month old pups are often around in abundance, generally because people do not bother to train them and they are getting out of hand, and the little puppy cuteness has worn off. But you seem to have that covered.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> Again I feel I must clear things up.
> 
> .



You drove 16 hours to get a dog that you were completely thrilled about getting and you never thought that 2 females wouldn't get along? I just got done watching a video of your girl Mina..she has a personality and she is a pretty girl, her new home will hopefully be everything that she needs. No need to clear anything up...I can just go back and read the other threads. Good Luck in whatever decision you make.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> 2) Maybe I haven't found my heart dog. All I know is that I have NEVER had a dog like Mina! I have loved every dog I have had, but not like her. I have never had this type of bond with a dog. It's probably due to the fact that we have trained 30 plus hours a week since the day I got her and been doing protection sports since she was 12 weeks. You can learn a lot about a dog in that amount of time.
> 
> If you can give her up, she can not be your heart dog. I just hope you are not her heart person.
> 
> 5) This is the most important! Stop judging me and each other. I'm sorry I started this thread. I don't want to see people get banned or lose a friendship online or not over somthing like this. I was just trying to get it out of my head. While many of you where judging me I was actually out working my dog. Not online talking about it.


My dogs are laying on my lap while I type. They don't work, they don't care what we do as long as I am happy. And I do what I can to make sure they are happy. It is a two way street. 

Heck yes I am judging... if you don't like it then don't post about it.  I have a 7 year old sweetheart who was someones darling once until she wasn't. She didn't understand. She was scared and grieving for her family. Every day is a milestone and she is finally relaxing and learning to trust again. but don't ever think it was easy for her to learn to love and trust a new family.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> My dogs are laying on my lap while I type. They don't work, they don't care what we do as long as I am happy. And I do what I can to make sure they are happy. It is a two way street.
> 
> Heck yes I am judging... if you don't like it then don't post about it.  I have a 7 year old sweetheart who was someones darling once until she wasn't. She didn't understand. She was scared and grieving for her family. Every day is a milestone and she is finally relaxing and learning to trust again. but don't ever think it was easy for her to learn to love and trust a new family.


Haha you're killing me judgey judgerson. You're basing your responses off your experience, not my situation. Good luck with your dog. I'm glad she has found a home that loves her. 


Again to the post about the girls not getting along. I did think they wouldn't get along. I know Heidi much better than that. Mina has gotten along with everything until Heidi so... I hoped they would get along but the fact they don't doesn't really matter. That being said they can work right next to each other and not care. Heck, they did downstays in the living room touching each other without a problem. Why? Because they focus on their handlers and are very obedient. How many times to I have to say that Heidi has nothing to do with this. You people that keep bringing Heidi up don't have much experience with working dogs do you? They rarely ever interact with other dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think it was something you said, about seeing a well-bred pup and how it works, and now the other dog I suppose pales in its wake. That is why Heidi is being brought up. The female-female thing might be being brought up about your situation -- you did kind of mention it, or about Mrs. K's situation, where she has had some issues between bitches. 

Some people have working dogs that are kenneled when not being worked, and other people have them lounging around the house being mauled by the babies and children. I don't know if it is one size fits all, even amongst working line people.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> Haha you're killing me judgey judgerson. You're basing your responses off your experience, not my situation. Good luck with your dog. I'm glad she has found a home that loves her.
> .


I'm an emotional female who lost her ♥ dog November 17, 2011. So yes I'm being all judgy. I can't help it. I also am sort of getting involved in rescue so I see tons of sad doggies every single day on my facebook page. I wish I could save them all. 

Good luck with your new dog.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

selzer said:


> I think it was something you said, about seeing a well-bred pup and how it works, and now the other dog I suppose pales in its wake. That is why Heidi is being brought up. The female-female thing might be being brought up about your situation -- you did kind of mention it, or about Mrs. K's situation, where she has had some issues between bitches.
> 
> Some people have working dogs that are kenneled when not being worked, and other people have them lounging around the house being mauled by the babies and children. I don't know if it is one size fits all, even amongst working line people.


You are right, I did say in another thread that Mina and Heidi didn't get along. That's what somebody brought up. I did say stuff about Heidi being well bred and blah blah blah. That was in response to people bringing Heidi up every two seconds. She has NOTHING to do with this. I just had to say it one more time. 


I know working dogs on both ends of the spectrum. The difference is that usually there is only one in a house. Like my other thread, when you raise them to think they can take on anything they believe it. Put two or more together and the chances of them getting along are slim. I was told this by a working dog trainer, "If you play with your dog 80%of the time and work 20% of the time, then when you take it out to work what is it going to want to do? Work or play? Most likely play. If you make the work play then that's all the dog knows."


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

mycobraracr said:


> ... You people that keep bringing Heidi up don't have much experience with working dogs do you? They rarely ever interact with other dogs.


Well, I don't think that is true. Assuming working dog=schutzhund dog, many, many of them live together and are treated as pets in the household. Now, I do have brothers who hate each other, and they live "separate lives," but the rest run, play and eat together. 
I am not judging your decision. Only you know what is best for your family. But I don't want people thinking sport dogs regularly get placed because they don't work out (we all know some do), or that sport dogs cannot live completely normal house dog lives.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> I'm an emotional female who lost her ♥ dog November 17, 2011. So yes I'm being all judgy. I can't help it. I also am sort of getting involved in rescue so I see tons of sad doggies every single day on my facebook page. I wish I could save them all.
> 
> Good luck with your new dog.


I'm sorry for your loss. I understand when you see nothing but bad it's hard not to "judge" it. Understanding where you're coming from makes me take your post differently. It's all about understanding. 

I never said I WAS getting a new dog or re-homing Mina. It was just something on my mind that I'm trying to work through. This was just an outlet for me. after all this, a bad choice of outlet but what is done is done.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

"...If you make the work play then that's all the dog knows..."

excuse me sir but how can recreational dog sport be considered anything but play, i find that attitude disturbing.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

x11 said:


> "...If you make the work play then that's all the dog knows..."
> 
> excuse me sir but how can recreational dog sport be considered anything but play, i find that attitude disturbing.


Even though it's a sport I still want my dog to take it serious. I don't want my dog playing tug and dancing with the decoy. I wan't it to be real. I don't want a dog that barks at the sleeve, I want a dog that barks at the "bad guy". That is what I mean by this.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> I'm sorry for your loss. I understand when you see nothing but bad it's hard not to "judge" it. Understanding where you're coming from makes me take your post differently. It's all about understanding.
> 
> I never said I WAS getting a new dog or re-homing Mina. It was just something on my mind that I'm trying to work through. This was just an outlet for me. after all this, a bad choice of outlet but what is done is done.


There has been more than a time or two when I've posted something and wished I could take it back, or that I could delete the thread.  I hope that everything works out for you and Mina.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

If you don't want to be "judged", don't put stuff out here for folks to judge. 
It's pretty simple, really.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> *If you don't want to be "judged", don't put stuff out here for folks to judge.
> It's pretty simple, really.*



that statement should be plastered on the front page of every public forum


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> If you don't want to be "judged", don't put stuff out here for folks to judge.
> It's pretty simple, really.


Are you still poking and prodding? That says a lot about the type of person you are. There you go. That's my judgment. 

Your statement has already been said about a dozen times in this thread


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It is a general statement...people always seem amazed when they don't get the advice or comments they want, or get comments they didn't want. 

The last paragraph in your last post was telling people "not to judge", even after people said "don't put it out there" "about a dozen times in this thread" :shrug:


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

myco. you must understand your post carried a lot of potential for emotional responses given the audience which you must be well aware of. 

another audience and yr post may have went unnoticed as it would be just a given. 

sincerely best of luck with yr decision and hope all works out for you and dog/s.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> It is a general statement...people always seem amazed when they don't get the advice or comments they want, or get comments they didn't want.
> 
> The last paragraph in your last post was telling people "not to judge", even after people said "don't put it out there" "about a dozen times in this thread" :shrug:


Well in my case I wasn't looking for it to go any direction just to get it out of my head and out somewhere. To Judge me based only in this is really ignorant. I mean ignorant in the real meaning of the word:

*ig·no·rant*

/ˈɪg nər ənt/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.htmlShow Spelled [ig-ner-uh nt] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.htmlShow IPA 
adjective 1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man. 

2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics. 

3. uninformed; unaware. 

4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> Well in my case I wasn't looking for it to go any direction just to get it out of my head and out somewhere. To Judge me based only in this is really ignorant.


You might want to check out this thread. Normally I don't stand up for Msvette2u but I think she gets a pass this evening. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/loving-memory/199554-layla-gone.html


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

I think after 23 pages of arguing, straying of topic, judging and practically going at each other's throats this thread should be closed.
Come on. I'm 18 and I find it ridiculous. :/ Can we not all just agree to disagree and move on to something more productive/less stressful?


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

ah the idealism of youth


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

In the old days, it was the elders telling us youth to behave and at least try to get along. (;


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

that was before the internet and social media


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

I may have been born in the wrong era. 

I just think that this is a forum, where we love dogs, share experience, teach, learn, etc. If someone was on the border, thinking to join, and saw this thread with all its negativity, would they do it? Especially if they are almost to the breaking point of rehoming? Or are just unsure overall? I know I wouldn't have joined if I saw this thread while I was on the fence.
It reflects badly on everyone involved. Op, the forum, those arguing for/against, those going in circles about unrelated topics... I love this forum. But threads like this are disappointing, discouraging to new people, and just not a true reflection of everyone's character.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

This thread is getting pretty weird. Off to bed all of you!


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