# Crate grumbles at shows.....



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Seeking some suggestions & advice from some that my have dealt with this or still does. 

I never used to cover my older 8 yr old females crate at shows. I even used an xpen a few times. I now deal with crate guarding. She will go off & give people that oh s*#* moment if too close to her crate even with her covered down. Mostly goes off if front cover is up, but will grumble at ones that pass by when down. I have tried when by the crate & front cover up giving lots of treats when good & if she goes off, give her a NO & squirt from water bottle. I am now trying to find places to tuck, hide, stash her. Never worried about this happening. 8/ Not sure if hiding her is going to help the issue either?

People always seem for some reason to walk right up close with their dogs dragging out in front of them which she hates.
I am trying to manage this as it makes our breed look bad.

Any suggestions? Thanks!


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

BTW, I am sure this is making the shows stressful for her & not fun when crated. 8/


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

? 

Come on guys, I cannot be the only one that is or has dealt with this. I really do not want to leave in the suv plus does get too hot in hotter months & I have only a suv gate so cannot open up Jeep.

~Thanks~


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

can you leave her crated in your vehicle? 

There were times when a couple of mine would go off, a dog to close to the crate, but normally they were pretty non chalant, again as long as there wasn't some dog sticking their nose in their crate

I'd crate her in the vehicle/lock her in, she also might be way less stressed in the vehicle.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

We deal with this with the shepherds at the dog shows too. We just cover the crates, yell at them to "leave it" when they throw a fit at a dog walking by. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. 

Those same dogs are so different when _out_ of the crate. None of the stupid stuff then.

Sorry. I don't have the magic answer either!


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Thanks. Yep, diff gal out of her crate. 8/

Any other suggestions? Not sure if squirting is a good answer. Do hate to stress her more. Never fails tho, you try to stash away somewhere & people & dogs seem to follow you. 8/ Even had my chair moved out of the way so they could walk through a area I had tried to block tucked behind the bleachers. Errrr


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

One thing I can think of, though it's not a particularly cheap option, is to get a Manners Minder. It's a remote controlled (or timer based, I think) device you can put on top of the crate that can automatically drop treats in on a timer interval, or when you press the RC button. This can take the human interface out of it- in order for her to get a treat currently, someone has to come close enough to give it. And that proximity is setting her off. 

So set up a Manners Minder, and setup some dog passes before or after class. Make it a parade. Start with the dogs far enough away to be below her threshold. When a dog (or person) passes and she doesn't go off, hit the button, she gets a treat. Slowly progress to pushing her threshold... This would be a slow desensitization approach.

The Manners Minder is also really useful in training running contacts. Daisy Peel has a class specifically on that. The device is about $100 on Amazon.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

What kind of crate do you use?

One of the reason I love the Canine Camper is cause it comes with covers you can use or roll up depending on which side(s) there are more issues. It really does seem to be a visual when my dogs react to others. GENERALLY I'm pretty lucky and my dogs just sleep.

But if I'm crated in a busy area, or by really annoying/loud dogs, just covering the side causing the most issues seems to get my dogs out of the 'alert' mode and more relaxed.

I personally don't like to only be able to crate in my vehicle because there are trials that's just not a good option for. Whether it's too hot and only parking is in the blazing sun. Or the distance between lot/courses are too far to manage well. Particularly when attending bigger trials like Nationals when I'm already stressed enough, worrying about crating in my car miles away from where I need to run isn't an added STRESS I want to deal with.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Most people I know who have dogs with crating in tight quarters just crate their dog out outdoors/in the vehicle.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

wildo said:


> a remote controlled (or timer based, I think) device you can put on top of the crate that can automatically drop treats in on a timer interval,


I need one of these for treats for myself


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If this is a change in behavior. Your eight-year-old is suddenly aggressing from her crate, where previously there was not this issue. Nothing has changed? I mean, like did you always take her with another dog, and now that dog is passed or being left at home? I would wonder if there is something going on, for an eight year old dog, maybe a thyroid issue? 

Just trying to think out loud.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Willy, Thanks for that suggestion. 8)

MLR, I use a 36" wire crate with a crate cover that covers the top & sides. I had a hole cut & sewn in the back of it, but I put it facing the wall. The front is open & I put a fleece blanket over it when I walk away. She is just a senoir citizen fun police. Showed this weekend, back tomorrow & a crazy big show. Seems the shows are stressing her more anymore lately. 8/ Seems to grumble at the dogs wound up & certain ones at times that walk by. When front open, she may let several pass that she can see, but grumbles at some. 8/

Selzer, Not sure there, good questions. The only thing she has pain issues with being told this spring after xrays that she has spondolois (sp?). My 19 month old pup goes to every show with us & has since she was 3 months old. Thank goodness, pup is in a open wire crate & knock on wood, nothing bugs her. 8)

Thanks for the advice guys. This weekend I just let her grumble at times & told her stop at times if big grumbles & treats if she was good. Tried not to stress her & get at her at every second. She is so respectful of other dogs in crates as she will pull around other side of me to advoid certain crates. Seems many dogs bark or do go off. I just hate it being one of mine, because do not like our breed to look bad. She got it back by little dogs barking & chewing her butt out today as we passed to get in our crate tucked away. 8)


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## KristiM (Oct 18, 2011)

I have a young dog that is not competing yet but I know this will be a huge issue if we have to bench in a building. He is NASTY if he thinks anyone or anything is breaching "his territory." I plan on putting an ex pen around my dog's kennel so that dogs can't approach his kennel and so that we have a bit of space when I bring him out/put him in. I have seen other people do this at trials as well...pain in the butt, but might be worth a try. It's possible that after all these years at shows she is just sick of dogs "not respecting her space."


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I have a pair that have recently started this behavior... initially, only towards male Black Russian Terriers. I 'titched' at them and they'd stop, but after three or four shows its now it's any male dog that walks by early on in shows (they're both bitches). Once it gets crowded they don't bother, but it's embarrassing for me to apologize to every owner whose poor dog gets a fright walking by. If I'm there they stop, if I'm across the building its no holds barred.
The only thing that works 100% for us is a bark collar. Mine don't test them after they get the first shock and it keeps them quiet and calm, but it does create a flat little ring around their necks which I could do without, since I do conformation.
If you find a solution please do share!


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Still seeking answers. Great advice so far all. Just sucks as she never did this nor had to be covered & now has to be. A bark collar would work as she would not test, but sure would not want to risk using or being caught at a show with one!!


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## TwoBigEars (May 11, 2013)

I realize this thread is old, but I'm bumping it up in case anyone has new advice. 

This is a big problem I have with Ryker and a major source of stress for me at trials. And of course it's okay for the border collies, aussies, goldens, etc to be lunging and raging in their crates, but not a GSD...though I don't want Ryker doing this anyway.

I crate out of the car as much as possible, and so far (knock on wood) he hasn't started snarling when in the car as long as he can't see out and it's easy to block his view. But as you all know, it's not always possible to crate out of the car, nor is it always easy to find a relatively low-traffic area to crate. He's generally good about not snarking when I'm there, but he does seem to be getting worse and has lunged twice now at a dog when he knew I was sitting right by his crate. Even with his crate covered. And of course if I'm somewhere far away, off he goes.

I've tried a bark collar and e-collar, but his bark collar only seems to work half the time and I'm nervous about the risk of getting caught with the collars at a trial. Not to mention most agility people would blacklist me and call me evil for using an e-collar even just in practice/fun matches.

My only other thought is to try going back to counter-conditioning, click & treat for watching nicely when other dogs pass by. But the other issue we have ("Issue" is Ryker's real name) is that Ryker is also a resource guarder, so even the CC is only semi-productive because then he wants to resource guard the treats from the other dogs in addition to his crate. Which only adds to the aggression. And again, if I'm not right there by his crate, he has great fun practicing his snarls.

Any help??? I really want to stop this behavior not only for my own stress, but also so he doesn't stress Solstice out with it and in the worst case transfer the behavior to her, and then I have two crate monsters. No thank you!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Marbury, are you doing AKC, can you have bark collars on them? I know you can't have prong collars on a dog at a show, but I thought the same was true about e-collars. 

Tching at them didn't work, is that a Cesar fail? LOL! I have told mine to "knock it off!" 

Usually inside in a crate, they aren't too bothered, but outside if I leave them in the vehicle in a crate with the back up, some do not like people coming right under the raised back of the vehicle. I mean, come on folks, it's an SUV with GSD signs on it, why in the world do you have to walk so close to the car that you are under the back door -- then when the Tasmanian Devil inside there errupts you are scared out of your skin, and your little dog too! 

I swear half the universe walks around in a haze these days. 

If it helps, when you put your crates down, park your lawn chairs right in front of your crates. That will keep people a little farther away. They make crate covers. And some people use them at shows for dogs who erupt in crates.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Jinks does not like dogs walking in front of his crate. I still cover his crate with a thin sheet when at trials, otherwise he can get barky. That said, he's come a long way. I used two methods which I think both have helped:

1) I watch him closely and use a modified LAT. (Modified because I've never actually read Control Unleashed.) When he fixes on a dog coming close, I treat like crazy. This has worked fairly well, and I continue to use this approach. I also test him sometimes and withhold the treat until AFTER the dog has walked by. If Jinks was quiet, I jackpot him.

2) I stole an idea out of Shaping Success by Susan Garrett and made this:










(I thought a muddy paw print would be cute. It isn't.)




















People come up (without their dogs!) and give him a treat when he's being quiet. This method pretty much eliminated any crate anxiety of being left alone while I had to work a course, or run Pimg. While I didn't use it to deal with resource guarding and/or lunging, I don't see any reason why you couldn't use it to get the dog to accept that it's ok for people to approach his crate.


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## TwoBigEars (May 11, 2013)

I have thought about a similar approach, leaving a bowl of treats for people to toss. But Ryker is so darn resource guardy that I know he would get pretty snarly about it (especially if he has two things to guard, his crate and the treats). He has bitten someone who tried to give him a treat in his crate. Why is my dog such a butthead??  

If I had known how to nip this problem several years ago, I don't think it would be a such an issue, but unfortunately I think he has practiced it so much and it is so ingrained now that I doubt I'll ever get him 100% or even 75% better. I suppose for now, we'll go back to the counter-conditioning/LAT and see if we can eke any improvement out of that.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Willy, I love those pictures! That is just flat-out adorable.

I don't have any constructive suggestions to offer (except: can you make the treats small enough that they're gone in a bite, and have people toss them from a chair posted nearby/out of the dog's sight, so there's effectively nothing to guard?). 

I'm going to be starting a pre-agility class tomorrow(!! my first one! I'm excited!), though, and crates are such a huge part of the curriculum that they're actually required to be brought to class from day one. So maybe I'll have something better to offer in a little bit.


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