# At what age did you trust your puppy...



## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

...to not wreck absolute havoc on your home when you were gone?

Kaiser, who literally just turned 5 months a few days ago, has broken out of his x-pen 3 times over the past few weeks. I have a LOT of "stuff" laying around (clothes, things for work, photography equipment...omg...there is stuff EVERYWHERE in my home) and the most he did those times was shred some napkins he stole from the trash. I was curious, so I decided to leave him out over the past week, here and there, for maybe an hour or two, just to see how he did when I was gone. Then this weekend, I decided to leave him out for what ultimately amounted to 7 hours while I took an old high school friend sight-seeing. I hope I don't jinx myself here...but...everything was in order upon my return. No gnawed on shoes or table legs, no de-stuffed couch, no shredded houseplants, and no opportunities to use the excuse, "the dog at my [home]work". 

I'm pretty much blown away. Now...I realize he has yet to hit that adolescent stage (he is still losing his puppy teeth), but I'm wondering if this could possibly help build a foundation for good behavior when he DOES hit that stage. I'm certainly not opposed to crating/using the x-pen, but he is growing like a weed and if I can afford him the opportunity to have more space, then I will. 

My thinking is that he is chewing on Dakota instead of my things. lol so it sounds silly, but why would he chew on a shoe when he can chew on his big sister? I mean, she MUST be more fun...right...? He does have a gazillion toys laying about too (well...most were Dakota's, but he has inherited them). OR...he could very well be sleeping. He is actually a bit of a lazy puppy, which kind of shocks me because of his working lines. His parents were both great family dogs, but had super high ball drive. His grandmother was a police k9 who apparently did quite well. His siblings tend to go to law enforcement homes or homes with experience. Not that I'm complaining...the laziness may make my hopes for schutzhund a bit of a wash, but he is super low key around the house which I kind of like. A lot. Except at night...thats when his evening zoomies kick in, haha. 

As for Dakota, who is currently 6.5 years old...I honestly cannot remember when I absolutely 100% trusted her out of a crate. She was never a terror, but she did get mad at me when I would leave and would tear up the last thing I touched (a clothing hanger, the tv remote, a pair of shoes I decided at the last minute to change, a plant I just watered, etc). But after that, she wouldn't touch anything else. I could be gone for 30 minutes or 10 hours...and she would only tear up one thing. My guess is that she was probably close to 1 before she stopped the angry outbursts.

At any rate...I'll stop rambling and open the floor to anyone who wants to share stories or comment 


cute kids by jsnail17, on Flickr


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## aarontfan (Mar 24, 2010)

My Lulu is 2 and 1/2 and I still don't fully trust her. We have left her out for short times recently and sometimes at night but she is really into her routine and I don't think she likes the changes. When we get ready to leave she knows to kennel up. When we turn the tv off and time to go night night, she goes to the stairs and waits for us to go with her to the kennel. I guess it all depends on your dog. I would love to trust her more but I am afraid of what she might do if she is left out all day and freaks out!


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

aw i love your Kaiser and your Dakota. I still don't trust my husky at nearly 4 years nor my GSD at 2  I walked away from my GSD for 2 minutes while on the phone and she shredded a plastic bag. I was worried if she ingested some of it and put the bag back together. No hugely missing pieces. 

my 0.02 cents. i agree this is the foundation for you to set good house rules. But honestly (maybe cuz I don't trust my dogs yet) I wouldn't leave Kaiser for over 2-3 hours. And I would maybe trust Kaiser to a single room with 'stuff' lying around rather than the entire house. is he good when you're around? I seem to recall him getting in the trash from your reference. Do you leave him out at night? Is he good then other than the zoomies? 

So sweet. I don't think I've seen a post from you in a while? Bless. Glad to hear all is well and good and you are taking big steps to having a wonderful adult dog! So quickly might I add


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

4 months - freedom to roam the house during the day and access to front yard
5 months - sleeps uncrated in my bedroom.
6 months - left at home unsupervised with my other adult dog for up to 2 hours, about once a week or so. 
7 months - today. May start to leave her at home more frequently instead of limiting my outings or increase the hours left alone. 

Some rooms are closed to her. This freedom results in her: 1) bringing in dead plants / sticks / rocks from the front yard into the living room (but I let her do this since I felt it entertains her and not that hard for me to clean up), 2) relocating shoes and socks (but doesn't chew. I kind of just let her do that too and take it away when seen. Not strict with her since no damage and seems like it's more of a comfort thing to her than destruction, especially when I'm gone). I'd leave her longer and more frequently alone sooner if my other dog weren't so small in size in comparison to her. 

When you left your puppy out for 7 hrs, did the puppy have access to outside, or it's just roaming freely inside? Want to see what others do as I'll be leaving my puppy longer.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I started leaving Stosh out when he was about 10 mos old, but I could have sooner. He has never ever not even once damaged or destroyed anything. Ever. He's not allowed on the carpeted areas of the house and I haven't seen any evidence that he's even gone where he isn't supposed to. Maybe he's just weird that way


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

We started with a few hours around 7 months and almost immediately went to uncrated at all times. In hindsight we probably could have trusted her sooner. She hasn't touched anything. She turned a year old last week..


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Zeeva, thank you for your kind words! 

Kaiser has a bit of a routine...he knows bedtime=crate but I've left him out for the last 4 nights. Heck, he will go nap in the crate, or rest, while I'm showering or getting ready to leave. Back to nighttime though....sometimes he wakes me up gnawing on one of his antlers, but he usually just chews for a few minutes before settling down again. Sometimes in the crate, sometimes out. At bedtime I was closing my bedroom door, but it got WAY too hot, so I decided to keep it open and just block it with a baby gate. Works great, except sometimes the cat jumps it and antagonizes Kaiser, lol. But, she does that anyway. 

As far as during the day, I use the baby gate again, but instead of keeping Kaiser in my bedroom, I keep him in the living room/dining/kitchen area. That is where most of the toys are anyway (and a dog bed...and lots more room to play). 

The trash thing is...well...his quirk, I guess. He will steal toilet paper out of the can in my bathroom and go sneak away to shred it. He will steal napkins out of the kitchen can, if I leave it out. Funny puppy. He also loves stealing socks, and will hide them in his crate...haha!


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Bear L said:


> When you left your puppy out for 7 hrs, did the puppy have access to outside, or it's just roaming freely inside? Want to see what others do as I'll be leaving my puppy longer.


He was inside. I unfortunately do not live in an area where I could give him access to the without me being there too. One day, I will. But for now, he is just allowed access (daytime) to my "living" space. At night, he gets just the bedroom.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I think it definitely depends on the dog, Jazzy I trusted around 9 months to be out of the crate but my roommate at the time crated her dog so I didn't feel it was fair to have one dog in and one dog out. Toilet paper was her downfall as well, she slightly chewed my cell charger once but then never touched another thing. They were only crated for 3.5 hours so I didn't really mind it and Jazzy tolerated it 

Delgado on the other hand loves to destroy things, anything he can get in his mouth is fair game so it will be a LONG time before I trust him outside of the crate unsupervised, even for 5 minutes


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

AWWW darling picture. My collie never destroyed/chewed anything..and he was always left gated in the kitchen until about one year old. Now he has the run of the main floor, but I make sure it is totally picked up before I leave.

Now , my gsd rescue never was trustworthy. Always into everything, toilet paper, laundry, eating socks, peeing..She had separation anxiety! She had to be confined.

Max is 4 months old and he is no way ready to be left alone for more than two minutes!! lol..he lays down and chews on whatever is within reach..and I think/ know he would terrorize my collie!


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

We've trusted Shasta at large in the house at night since she was about 18 months old. We've never left her loose in the house while we were gone. I expect she'd either (1) sit at the front room window watching for threats approaching from the street (there are none, lol) and for us to return or (2) sleep the entire time.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Riley is 7 and he's not trustworthy. If i were to leave him out, i'd have to muzzle him to keep him out of trouble. But then he would still pee or poop in the house so he's crated when we leave. Shasta.... she's 2 and I've never gotten the desire to even attempt to leave her out on her own.


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## sjones5254 (Dec 16, 2011)

Abby just turned 9 months old and never destroyed anything till about a month ago. My vet said she hit the terrible 2's and now after all this time she is going to have to be crated  For her safety since she eats pillowcases, comforters and my porch deck. We are slowly introducing her to a crate until then she can't be trusted alone and I have 5 other dogs to keep her busy. He said she has seperation anxiety as well so that is a big part of my problem.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Its amazing the different personalities you see within the same breed! I'm curious now...what lines do your pups come from? 

Kaiser is definitely a velcro puppy, but he's not a snuggler (funny thing is, neither is Dakota). He is VERY attached to Dakota (probably another reason he isn't psycho-puppy when I leave) but he's not very fond of being away from me either. I've been working on that since he was even younger though, so I think we are doing pretty well. I still don't necessarily trust him 100%, since he still has a big phase to get through still.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

I wonder if there's any correlation between a dog that's more independent, thus less susceptible to separation anxiety, resulting in less destructive behaviors when left alone. 

My dog is quite independent in nature. Prefers to stay in the living room, watching the front door, all by herself, or sun tan in the front yard when I leave the door open. If she could, she'd rather sleep there than in my room. She's whined to get out of my room so she can watch the door. She is not destructive at all. I give her other things to destroy.... like papers when she needs it. When I leave, she just whines a little. When I return, she's happy, but not overly excited. I've wondered if it's lack of bond, but she listens to me. She is only 7 months so maybe too young to tell.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I agree with you. Stosh is very comfortable being alone, could care less when I come and go and is by nature a very quiet, self-confident dog and was from the start. He's very affectionate but is fine when left alone too.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

I learned the hard way with Taz. He destroyed my room twice, because I figured when he was around 1 he should be good...wrong answer . Then I joined this forum back in 1999 or 2000 and learned alot and it saved me alot of money by learning what to do. Now since Taz is gone  and Jonas is here. I know not to let him have run of the house yet. Things are a little differnt now though, I think the longest Jonas has been in his crate is 3 hrs max, and he sleeps like a baby in it. Jonas does a little differnt destruction in his own ways. He has never chewed anything up at all " hes a good boy", but if I forget to put his Skateboard away, he flies thru the house on it and breaks up stuff :crazy: hes wicked on it lol. I have tested though, I leave for half hour and come back to see what he does, and he goes up on the couch and sleeps and leaves the other dogs alone. So all in all If I really wanted to, he probably could be trusted now, But I dont want to yet. I will wait a while. So my answer is I could trust him now, but I wont :laugh:


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## jimj (May 30, 2012)

Kaiser2012 said:


> He was inside. I unfortunately do not live in an area where I could give him access to the without me being there too. One day, I will. But for now, he is just allowed access (daytime) to my "living" space. At night, he gets just the bedroom.


Is it possible your older dog is keeping Kaiser in line? Seen that before with other dogs.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It depends on the dog. The youngest for me was 1 yr old. I have one who is still crated or contained when alone due to her ability to reach just about anything. She's a climber and a chewer.


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

great picture of your babies  lexie will be a year this week and i dont leave her out when im not home. I have a friend at work that has a beautiful golden, he was left uncrated at 1 yr old and ate a electric cord, $1500 surgery to remove the obstruction and now he is crated when they are not home. I dont think lexie will chew anything (except a left out shoe) but i always have that story in the back of my mind.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

I let both of my babies out around 5.5 months. I did it with both in increments. Started leaving the crate open at night while i was home. They both alerted me when they needed to go out. Then started on days, 1 hour, then 2 hours and so on until I felt safe leaving them out all day. My female has never had an accident or chewed anything up. My male was the same until about a month ago. He has his second FHO in February and it seems the better he gets, the more restless he gets. He's gotten into drawers in the kitchen and the trash a few times. Now I just make sure he has plenty of toys out when I leave for work and he's fine.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

jimj said:


> Is it possible your older dog is keeping Kaiser in line? Seen that before with other dogs.


I was thinking that might be the case. Dakota is FANTASTIC now and hopefully will rub off on Kaiser.



[email protected] said:


> great picture of your babies  lexie will be a year this week and i dont leave her out when im not home. I have a friend at work that has a beautiful golden, he was left uncrated at 1 yr old and ate a electric cord, $1500 surgery to remove the obstruction and now he is crated when they are not home. I dont think lexie will chew anything (except a left out shoe) but i always have that story in the back of my mind.


Thanks!! Oh gosh, things like that scare the heck out of me!




Well.

I DID jinx myself. 

Came home last night to a poop pile and a trail of pee, a shredded list of "things to do", a bouncy puppy, and a horrified looking Dakota. Dakota, poor girl, must have thought she was in trouble or something. It was all the puppy (heck, I can even tell their, uh, bodily function messes apart, lol) but Dakota was all "sad apologetic face". I didn't correct or yell or anything...just scooped them up and took them outside. Funny how the VERY same day I post the original thread, Kaiser has to prove me wrong...lol!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Kaiser2012 said:


> I DID jinx myself.
> 
> Came home last night to a poop pile and a trail of pee, a shredded list of "things to do", a bouncy puppy, and a horrified looking Dakota. Dakota, poor girl, must have thought she was in trouble or something. It was all the puppy (heck, I can even tell their, uh, bodily function messes apart, lol) but Dakota was all "sad apologetic face". I didn't correct or yell or anything...just scooped them up and took them outside. Funny how the VERY same day I post the original thread, Kaiser has to prove me wrong...lol!


Oh nooooooo!!! Probably just couldn't hold it  then thought it would be fun to rid you of your "responsibilities" 

When Titan was about 6 or 7 mo. I started leaving him out. Had one single incident that got him crated for a month when I was gone and I tested it out again. Nothing has been touched since that day. It's almost as if he needed to get one huge, VERY VERY expensive, destruction out of his system. Considering he chewed through dry wall, stairs, wood panels, and tore off wall paper. That being said.. he only had access to the entry way. 

If I were you, I would start with small areas if it's really something you are looking at moving to. Get baby gates if Kaiser doesn't jump, not likely, lol being GSD and all. If those are too short, I went with a pet gate that was pretty tall, waist level on me. Get a few depending on where you are most comfortable with leaving him.. I chose a tiled area. do short bursts like you started. A few hours here, a few hours there. Eventually you will get to a large amount of time. Also, I always had to be positive that he went potty, 1 and 2, before I left or I knew there'd be a mess. Also, set him up for success, make sure there is nothing left out that he could destroy except the house itself, lol.. which I suppose is delightful at times to chew.. but we'll hope for the best 



Bear L said:


> When you left your puppy out for 7 hrs, did the puppy have access to outside, or it's just roaming freely inside? Want to see what others do as I'll be leaving my puppy longer.


I didn't start leaving Titan until I was sure that he could go a full 8+ hours without going potty. This is because I worked 30 minutes away and the drive from lunch was getting to me. Until I could leave him crated for 8+ hours with no mess, I didn't even try. Titan had no access to outside while I was gone. Just his crate, water, and a couple chews. After the one single incident I stated above, I never had another problem. I now don't even have the gate. He gets full access to the house. And due to my new work schedule that changes bi-weekly, Sometimes he is in the house for 12 hours at a time. On occassion I have a friend come let him out. But he's perfectly fine without. Never ever had a problem unless he had an upset tummy.. then that's to no fault of his own.



Bear L said:


> I've wondered if it's lack of bond, but she listens to me. She is only 7 months so maybe too young to tell.


I wouldn't worry about that. Some dogs are just much more independent that others and while they love the crap outs you.. they are stable minded in the fact they know you will be back. I have thought the same thing with Titan because he's so independent. he's velcro when I'm running around the house doing things but when I sit on the couch or eat or relax he disappears into the front room.


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

Dutch (collie) has started spending the night out of his crate for the last two nights without any incidents, but I still would not trust him alone in the house during the day. I did leave him out yesterday when I went to the barn, but DH was on his way home from work so he was probably only out alone for about 30-45 minutes. Dutch is about 4 1/2 months old. He is pretty laid back and doesn't get into much so I feel safer trusting him this early on than I did my late GSD.


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## Darc (Apr 10, 2012)

I used to trust Vandog. He never did a real mess, he relocated shoes and socks but didn't chew on anything. Oh and there's this figurine he's obscessed with so he'd pick it up with his mouth and just leave it scattered around, ultimately breaking it after dropping it. That was about it.

The past week, his behaviour started to change. I can't trust him anymore. I left my laptop charger right next to him before, no worries, never chewed but last week I came home to a bunch of shredded wires. And I was only gone for 1 hour tops. He's also doing random acts of destruction, shredding napkins aswell. No idea what's causing this, he's 5 and a half months old. It's manageable but I miss trusting him.

By the way, Kaiser looks so much like Vandog! I wish he had his ears fully up though, the tips dance all over the place for the past 1 month and a half.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

He's almost 3 years old and I still don't trust him. He may be crated forever. Never met a dog quite like him


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

Ditto was about 5 months old when I trusted her. I still puppy proofed the house when I left, but she did well.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

We have left Koda in the house for 4 hours- the longest was 6 hours. He must have been around 10 months. 

You take great photos lady!


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Rocket has slept uncrated at night since just before 5 months old. He's perfect. He does not stay home alone during the day unless he's crated, though. He too loves toilet paper, but we can keep the doors shut. He still chews a few little things, though. And once I left him to go gas up the lawn mower down by the shed, as a "practice" run. I was out of the house for 10 minutes. I came back in, and he had helped himself to the bully sticks I had in his treat basket up about 4 1/2 feet on a ladder.


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## Tankin (Feb 7, 2012)

Our main concern with Tank was not that he would destroy anything, but that he would pester our cat Babaganoush all day long if he were uncrated. 

At 4 months old we let him sleep uncrated in our bedroom with no problems. At about 7 months, he and the cat came to an understanding. He still likes to bother him, but not with the persistence that he had before, he gets bored within a few minutes. 

Now we let him sleep uncrated with the bedroom door open. We still haven't tried letting him have the run of the house while we're gone just yet, but that will be coming soon, an hour here, hour there, building up to an entire workday


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