# Almost 10 weeks, loose right hip?



## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I took my new pup in for his first vet check up. He'll be 10 weeks old in a couple days. Both parents have OFA certification. However, I'm still concerned about his hips from everything I've read.

The vet said everything looks perfectly healthy except his right hip joint is loose. 

She did some kind of "palpate" motion with his legs, said the left joint is normal and the right is "loose" 

She said it's possible he could be dysplastic, but then said with physical therapy daily, it should tighten up and be fine.....I was confused by this and she explained to me that it isn't a matter of whether a German Shepherd is dysplastic, it is a matter of how severe.

I asked what kind of pt, and she stated that walking him at a regular pace up and down the sidewalk daily but not until he's tired. She said that should tighten it up as he matures over the next year.

I asked her if walking on the cement is ok, she said it makes no difference. I asked her if a joint supplement is a good idea and she said absolutely never give puppies any kind of supplements, it can cause more harm than good and create abnormalities.

I also asked her about dog food. I told her I was getting him on Blue Buffalo - Wilderness Puppy. She said that all the dog foods are pretty much the same and that anything that comes out that claims to be "new" is simply a "gimick".

I was also just curious and asked when his ears would start standing up and she said if they haven't yet, they probably won't. I told her that they stood up off and on a couple times and she said they should be standing up if they are going to. Then I said numerous breeders told me they would stand up within 6 months.

I'm so torn and confused I don't know WTH to believe. I talked to many reputable breeders that say that puppy hips are loose and tighten with age.

This vet clinic is an extremely well known clinic in my area, one of the more "prestigious" ones.

I'd appreciate any and all advice/feedback/opinions on everything I was told.

Thanks!


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

That's odd. I have a pup with weak pasterns and hocks and I have had him on some supplements for a few weeks now. He's 20 weeks. I saw my vet today and she said to keep him on the supplements and a low protein/low calcium food. I have already begun to see improvements since changing his food and starting him on the supplements. What are you feeding?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I wouldn't really go with what your vet says at this point. Pups have loose joint/ligaments and walk wonky!
Food and supplements do make a difference, and I would only use a kibble that has appropriate calcium/phosphorus levels(wilderness, Acana, orijen are three that I know of, or raw)
I would be more concerned about the vaccination protocol that your vet goes with and do your own research on that and nutrition. 
As far as the hips/elbows go, I would do prelims at 5 or 6 months by a qualified vet if you are concerned or planning on doing any sportwork. Your breeder will appreciate the information as well.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

tuffloud1 said:


> I also asked her about dog food. I told her I was getting him on Blue Buffalo - Wilderness Puppy. She said that all the dog foods are pretty much the same and that anything that comes out that claims to be "new" is simply a "gimick".


She is wrong. There are definitely big quality differences among foods, and if she does not know that I would personally stop asking her advice regarding nutrition, and I'd ignore it if she offers it voluntarily.



> I was also just curious and asked when his ears would start standing up and she said if they haven't yet, they probably won't. I told her that they stood up off and on a couple times and she said they should be standing up if they are going to. Then I said numerous breeders told me they would stand up within 6 months.


Again - wrong. She has no idea what she's talking about. Some puppies have their ears up at a young age and they stay up, but many puppies do not have ears up at 10 weeks old, and it is absolutely nothing to be concerned about. If they are not up by the time he's done with teething, you might want to think about taping them, but chances are it won't be necessary.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

I agree with Deb on everything. Food is SOOO important. I had my pup on both Orijen, TOTW, and Raw. The protein levels were way too high and he was on the heavy side from the day I got him and now he has developed weak pasterns and had shaky hocks. He developed way too fast and went from 26lbs to 40lbs in less than a month, and I have pictures to show that he wasn't really fat, just growing too fast. Since then, I have changed his food, reduced his portions, and started him on supplements. His vet was much happier with his weight and development today. He was 48lbs today. 

Also, my pups ears did not go up and stay up until 18 wks. My other GSD was 16 wks when her ears stayed up. You may want to look into finding another vet.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I should edit my kibble recommendation, I meant Wellness not wilderness.

Tina, what food are you feeding now? 

Showlines tend to have slower to strengthen ears, chewing raw fresh knuckle bones will help with them to stand. It strengthens the jaw/facial muscles and the cartilage is a nutritious benefit.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I should edit my kibble recommendation, I meant Wellness not wilderness.
> 
> Tina, what food are you feeding now?
> 
> Showlines tend to have slower to strengthen ears, chewing raw fresh knuckle bones will help with them to stand. It strengthens the jaw/facial muscles and the cartilage is a nutritious benefit.


I've got him on the Natural Balance LID. It took weeks of searching to find a grain free food that wasn't too high in protein. It's protein is 21% and calcium is 1%. I never had these issues with my first GSD, though I don't know if she's full SL (BYB). I had her on both Wellness and TOTW. I think genetics plays a big role in this, but what I was feeding was only making the situation worse. His hip bones also jut out, and my vet says it's because he developed so fast that he didn't have time to build any muscle in that area. I asked about X-rays and she said that doing them before 6 months was really pointless because of how much they change in development during this period. She suggested that if I don't see improvement by 6 months, that I bring him back for an appt with their orthopedic vet who will be able to examine him and determine if there are indeed serious issues. I'm going to bring him in for examination whether I see improvement or not, just because I want to be sure.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

So should I be worried about the loose hip comment by my vet?

I forgot to mention, she said OFA Certification really doesn't mean anything. She said that she has seen x-rays that were perfectly fine hips and they didn't pass OFA, and x-rays that were obvious bad hips that did pass OFA.

Is it normal for puppies at 10 weeks to have a "loose" hip joint on one side?

Also, is Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy a good quality food for my boy? It has no grains and no meat bi-products.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

tuffloud1 said:


> So should I be worried about the loose hip comment by my vet?
> 
> I forgot to mention, she said OFA Certification really doesn't mean anything. She said that she has seen x-rays that were perfectly fine hips and they didn't pass OFA, and x-rays that were obvious bad hips that did pass OFA.
> 
> ...


Hmmm...OFA certification seems to mean a lot in the breeding world as far as I've seen. I've heard of x-ray positioning being done wrong and bad position placement during the x-ray that can cause a wrong certification, but not the other way around Several of your vets comments would make me seriously look to going elsewhere... But your pup can't be OFA certified until he's at least 2 years old anyways. 

I'm not sure about the loose hip joint. Onyx is probably correct in that he's still very young and Showlines are kinda wonky at this age. I've heard good things about Blue Buffalo, but have never tried it. The protein level is 36% which is too high for my pup. Some people say that calcium levels are what's more important, but I have read several studies that state otherwise, and with the issues that Showlines seem to have and what I have personally experienced, I don't want to take anymore chances. This is the site that I referenced when trying to find a new food.

Large Breed Puppy Diet Recommendations.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

tuffloud1 said:


> So should I be worried about the loose hip comment by my vet?
> 
> I forgot to mention, she said OFA Certification really doesn't mean anything. She said that she has seen x-rays that were perfectly fine hips and they didn't pass OFA, and x-rays that were obvious bad hips that did pass OFA.
> 
> ...


So far I think your vet is an idiot. Food makes a big difference especially in a growing pup. Loose joints are very normal for puppies, especially showline pups.

OFA results mean a lot as to the health of those particular hips; it does not guarantee the hips of the pups - only improves your chances of good hips. You don't have bad hips passing OFA or the other way around. There are different levels of results though so passing can mean different things to different people.

The blanket statement that GSDs all have bad hips to some degree is absurd. My own dog has OFA excellent hips and you don't get any better than that no matter the breed.

Exercise is so important for puppies. It will build muscle and strengthen those joints. If your pup has floppier joints, you might want to stick to more low impact exercise, but do a lot of it to tighten things up.

The one thing I do sort of agree with is not giving supplements to puppies. There are a lot of supplements that can do more harm than good and puppies don't need them. Even joint supplements have not been shown to prevent anything; only help once there is a problem, so no reason to waste a lot of money.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

It's amazing the stuff some vets come up with... Some of these things you hear really makes you wonder...

Step 1... find a new vet
Step 2... disregard everything this vet told you about anything
Step 3... never go back to vet number 1 again

And about the BB Wilderness Puppy... I'd be a little hesitant feeding that food. I know the regular BB Wilderness has a lot of calcium and if it's just a regular "puppy" formula instead of "large breed puppy" formula, i'd guess the calcium % won't be appropriate for large breed puppies. 

The kibble has good ingredients, but I'd be hesitant feeding it a GSD puppy.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I guess the question is: Is it normal for a puppy at 10 weeks to have a loose joint on one side of the hip? 

Look at what this breeder has to say - 

http://www.klgsd.com/The%20Sound%20Shepherd.htm


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> And about the BB Wilderness Puppy... I'd be a little hesitant feeding that food. I know the regular BB Wilderness has a lot of calcium and if it's just a regular "puppy" formula instead of "large breed puppy" formula, i'd guess the calcium % won't be appropriate for large breed puppies.
> 
> The kibble has good ingredients, but I'd be hesitant feeding it a GSD puppy.


Ok, so what should I feed my pup and for how long?

I've had a bunch of people on another thread say BB Wilderness is great.

I'd like a specific recommendation please.


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## abakerrr (Aug 8, 2008)

From personal experience, I feed my adult shepherd the BB Wilderness and she does very well on it. Matter of fact, it's the only dry kibble she will eat. That said though, I think the protein and calcium levels in the food might be too high for a GSD puppy, so I would start looking towards other options. I've got my 12 week old WL pup on Wellness Large Breed puppy food and so far, everything has been going great. If you think pup is a little wobbly and are concerned about structure problems, I would look for a food that has 21-23% protein content (such as Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Diet). I'm considering getting the NB-LID and mixing it with the Wellness LBP just to be on the safe side.

BTW- Whats the scoop with the new pup? Pictures?:wub:


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Wilderness is good for adult dogs... not for large breed puppies. It has high amounts of calcium. Too much calcium = rapid bone growth. Rapid bone growth can lead to orthopedic issues down the road. 

One example of this is the Wellness Core formulas which is similar to the BB Wilderness Formulas. Wellness states on their website not to feed their Core formulas to large breed puppies because of the high amount of calcium. Not too sure if BB will say the same thing, but ethically, they should.

If you like Blue Buffalo, feed their regular chicken and brown rice formula. The regular or large breed puppy formula should be fine. Wellness Super5mix is also a good choice for a large breed puppy. 

If you absolutely have to go grain free, Orijen is a good option because it's low in calcium compared to other grain frees.

Once your puppy hits about 18-24 months, feed whatever you want. Right now and while he's still growing, I'd go with lower calcium kibbles.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

tuffloud1 said:


> Ok, so what should I feed my pup and for how long?
> 
> I've had a bunch of people on another thread say BB Wilderness is great.
> 
> I'd like a specific recommendation please.


The problem is not all dogs are the same, thus there is no one food fits all. I have one that's allergic to grains, so I have to feed a grain free. Other dogs do well on it. My other pup is not developing well on high proteins, so I've had to change him to a low protein diet. Other people have brought their pups up on Orijen LBP which is very high protein, and they've done well on it. I would look for a food is that is either an All life Stages, Adult, or Large Breed Puppy forumla with Calcium levels under 1.2%. You kinda just have to find what works for your pup and your budget.


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## abakerrr (Aug 8, 2008)

Meant to add calcium into the equation but it looks to have been covered well.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Wow your vet has no clue what she's talking about. A GSD's ears can take a few months to stand and most go through a wonky ear phase. It is absolutely normal for a pup's ears to fall again while they are teething. If you're pup is only 10 weeks, it is normal for her ears to be down still.

Almost all long bodied pups walk funny and are super uncoordinated. It's not until they are about 8-12 months that they begin to look more graceful. They will generally fall all over themselves and you will think your pup is defective. 

As for food, personally I like Natural Balance because there are so few ingredients, but it's a double edged sword. There is very little protein in the LID Nat. Bal. foods. 
I fed my puppy Orijen and it was way too rich for her no matter how little I fed. She had consistently mushy poo. 
I like Wellness. Blue Buffalo is decent, but not grain free. Solid Gold is good as well. Taste of the Wild is also pretty good when your pup grows up. 
Your vet is silly if she thinks that all kibble is equal. When in doubt, look at the ingredients. If you see by-products, or corn anything on the list, skip it. Try to skip BHA, BHT, and Ethoxyquin(sp) as they can be toxic to dogs. 
Also, some dogs can do great with grains and others cannot tolerate them. 
It is just trial and error until you can find something your puppy does well on.

I would not recommend running your puppy on concrete. Walks on concrete are ok, but he should really just run on grass. You can let him/her stop when ever they want to. Not all GSDs have hip issues either 

Based on your vet's answers to your questions, I would never go there again; she knows nothing about GSDs. At my clinic, there was one vet that recommended I alpha roll my puppy because GSDs all turn out to be vicious. After I left, I specifically asked the ladies at the front to never book an appointment with him again.

Get in contact with all the vets in your area and ask them questions, then go with the one you feel most comfortable with. 
If you can't find one you can trust, then try to do some research of your own before you make any costly decisions. Most vets will definitely nickel and dime you. 

I have to be very careful with my vet because they will push things on me. I always have to do research beforehand and keep my guard up while there. A number of times they have sneaked things on me that I would have never let them do. For example, they once charge me $30 for a shot of BENADRYL when I could have easily given her some at home at no additional charge.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

At 10 weeks, puppies' joints are still calcifying and you really can't tell what sort of hips they are going to have at this point. I would not worry about the vet palpating a "loose hip" at 10 weeks--it just doesn't tell you anything. If you have concerns, I'd recommend preliminary xrays around 6 months.

Many puppies do not have ears standing at 10 weeks -- they could easily still come up.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm confused as to why the Blue Buffalo puppy formula is not good for a large breed puppy. After all, this formula was based off of the "diet of wolves". If that is the case, what do wolve puppies eat in the wild that is different than their parents? Aren't German Shepherds very similar to a wolf?


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

Here he is by the way - 




























I am curious, does this breed go through a stage where their snouts look kind of skinny and out of proportion?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

tuffloud1 said:


> I'm confused as to why the Blue Buffalo puppy formula is not good for a large breed puppy. After all, this formula was based off of the "diet of wolves". If that is the case, what do wolve puppies eat in the wild that is different than their parents? Aren't German Shepherds very similar to a wolf?


Who said it's based off the diet of wolves... the front of the bag? I'm pretty sure wolves don't eat Potato starch, peas, and tomato pomace in the wild. It's just good marketing putting a wolf on the front of the bag... it's not really a typical wolf diet.

If you want a real "diet of the wolves", feed a balanced raw diet.

To simply break it down, Blue Buffalo wilderness has too much calcium for a large breed puppy. The extra calcium may make their bones grow at an even more rapid rate than they're already growing.

If you like Blue Buffalo, feed their regular chicken and rice formula, not the wilderness brand.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Who said it's based off the diet of wolves... the front of the bag? I'm pretty sure wolves don't eat Potato starch, peas, and tomato pomace in the wild. It's just good marketing putting a wolf on the front of the bag... it's not really a typical wolf diet.
> 
> If you want a real "diet of the wolves", feed a balanced raw diet.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying, however, wolves eat mainly meat, which is protein, which is what this Wilderness line is going for.

*What do wolves eat?*

*Wolves* are carnivores (meat eaters) but they will eat other foods as well. Their diet ranges from big game, such as elk and moose, to earthworms, berries and grasshoppers.

To avoid using too much energy catching their food, wolves prey on weaker members of a herd, such as old, young or sick animals. In summer, when the herds migrate, wolves eat mice, birds and even fish. They may also eat carrion.

Their digestion is very efficient, with all but 5 percent of large meat feeds able to be digested. Any splinters of bone that are not broken down somehow become wrapped in undigested hair, which protects the intestines from injury.

*Pups are fed by the adults who disgorge fresh meat from their stomachs, or carry back fresh pieces of meat to the den.*


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

tuffloud1 said:


> I understand what you are saying, however, wolves eat mainly meat, which is protein, which is what this Wilderness line is going for.
> 
> *What do wolves eat?*
> 
> ...


The protein is not the issue... its the calcium.
(Lucy Dog Quote)
*To simply break it down, Blue Buffalo wilderness has too much calcium for a large breed puppy. The extra calcium may make their bones grow at an even more rapid rate than they're already growing.*

MY pup has weak pasterns, therefore I am staying away from high proteins until they strengthen, but other pups may do well on it. LB pups do not do well on high calcium amounts because it affects they're bone development.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Exactly... dogs are carnivores. If you want a diet closest to what a wolves diet would be... feed a raw diet. Have you researched a raw or BARF diet at all?

Wilderness is high in protein, but that doesn't make it closest to a wolves diet. Just looking at the ingredient list, I see.. potato starch, flaxseed, peas, potatoes, tomato pomace, alfalfa meal, dried egg and sweet potatoes towards the top of the ingredient list. None of these things are very typical to a wolves diet.

It's all marketing when they say "based off a wolves diet" or anything like that. It's a good kibble, but it's not a typical diet for a wolf.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Exactly... dogs are carnivores. If you want a diet closest to what a wolves diet would be... feed a raw diet. Have you researched a raw or BARF diet at all?
> 
> Wilderness is high in protein, but that doesn't make it closest to a wolves diet. Just looking at the ingredient list, I see.. potato starch, flaxseed, peas, potatoes, tomato pomace, alfalfa meal, dried egg and sweet potatoes towards the top of the ingredient list. None of these things are very typical to a wolves diet.
> 
> It's all marketing when they say "based off a wolves diet" or anything like that. It's a good kibble, but it's not a typical diet for a wolf.


I would love to feed my pupp a raw diet. I just get scared off because they seem way too complicated and diverse. 

Do you have a recommendation that is simple without having to use every meat imagineable?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

tuffloud1 said:


> I would love to feed my pupp a raw diet. I just get scared off because they seem way too complicated and diverse.
> 
> Do you have a recommendation that is simple without having to use every meat imagineable?


I don't feed a raw diet, so I'm not the one to give advice to that question. 

My limited understanding is you don't have to feed a mixture of different meats. Really, you can just feed chicken if you want and that's it. It just has to be correctly balanced between the dogs weight with meat meal, organ meal, and bone meal.

We have an entire section here dedicated to the BARF diet. If you're really interested, take a look. I'd start with the stickies on top.

B.A.R.F./Raw Feeding - German Shepherd Dog Forums


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

yes a BARF diet is better with a little variety, but that doesn't equal feeding a ton of different meats. here is a for-instance that I used with my dogs when I fed RAW

chicken backs, leg quarters, eggs
turkey necks
deer meat (stockup on scraps from all your local hunters)
fish
beef scraps from the local buther
discounted meat from the grocery store (hamburger/pork/lamb whatever was on sale that week. small amounts here and there)

so, there were other things added in, but chicken/turkey was primary.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Lucy Dog said:


> I don't feed a raw diet, so I'm not the one to give advice to that question.
> 
> My limited understanding is you don't have to feed a mixture of different meats. Really, you can just feed chicken if you want and that's it. It just has to be correctly balanced between the dogs weight with meat meal, organ meal, and bone meal.
> 
> ...


No! You DO need to feed a variety of meats in order for the dog to have the proper nutrients, which need to come from more than one source. Just feeding chicken isn't going to cut it. Also not sure what you mean by "meal" - the correct terminology is muscle and organ meat, and raw meaty bones. 

tuffloud1, in addition to the info on this forum, you might want to check out www.b-naturals.com The archived newsletter section has great recipes for feeding both puppies and adults, both raw and home cooked......and while it can seem daunting at first, once you have a routine in place, like everything else it gets easier. 
____________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

No, you definitely do have to vary their diet. Some people do it over the course of a few days, others (like me) introduce variety of the course of a few months/weeks. 
You can have as little as 4 protein sources. That means you can choose 4 different proteins that are easy for you to get (or more). If it's easy for you to find chicken/deer/beef/pork/rabbit/turkey, then you can feed that. Definitely introduce variety though. Feeding just chicken can cause severe deficiencies. 
There is tons of good raw information here Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch
and in the BARF/Raw feeding sections. I recommend you read up on it first, then come into the raw section and ask more questions.


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## neiltus (Mar 10, 2011)

Either your interpretation and language choice in writing about what the vet said is loosing some of it's context or the vet is a nut.

I can see how each of the vet's statements is not without merit, but in a very extreme generalized way.

Personally, if a vet told me _*in the language your posting*_ what you say, I would walk quick.

I thank god that I have a vet who breeds and owns GSDs and has for 20+ years.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

neiltus said:


> Either your interpretation and language choice in writing about what the vet said is loosing some of it's context or the vet is a nut.
> 
> I can see how each of the vet's statements is not without merit, but in a very extreme generalized way.
> 
> ...


Nope, everything I stated was accurate.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

The one thing I want to say is, get a different vet , this one has no clue as to what she's talking about


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

When we were outside watching him run on the concrete, she was saying how his right leg is slightly pivoted inward (the side that is "loose").

I can barely notice is sometimes, other times both back legs appear to be moving totally symetrical as he walks/runs.

She stated that if I walk him everday on the sidewalk for 10 minutes or so, it would "tighten up" that joint. This is contrary to what many breeders reccomend. I was told NOT to let a puppy go on the concrete and that "puppy play" is enough to tighten and allow joints to grow properly. I specificaly asked my vet if concrete is bad for the puppies joints, she said it makes no difference what they are walking on. I also asked if I should keep him from going down stairs because many breeders also warned against stair use repetition. She said it won't hurt anything.

Do puppies sometimes have un-symetrical walking/running?


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

*EDIT* his right foot plants outward, not inward.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

he's so young, puppies are clutzes they walk funny, they trip and stumble,,sounds like his feet are a little easty-westy, and again NO BIG DEAL,,,I'd find another vet, this one is an idiot in my opinion


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> he's so young, puppies are clutzes they walk funny, they trip and stumble,,sounds like his feet are a little easty-westy, and again NO BIG DEAL,,,I'd find another vet, this one is an idiot in my opinion


Thank you so much Diane!

You bring me some peace of mind.

I'm already attached to this little guy. I started doing clicker training and we've only had a couple accidents in the house. He's getting into our routine super fast. What an awesome breed....


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I was also going to ask if it's normal for him to constantly do a "plop" down all the time almost like he's exhausted. He'll move from place to place following me around, then plop at my feet when I stop walking.

He also does this thing where he kind of "brushes" up against walls and the sofa. Almost like a cat!


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

tuffloud1 said:


> She stated that if I walk him everday on the sidewalk for 10 minutes or so, it would "tighten up" that joint. This is contrary to what many breeders reccomend. I was told NOT to let a puppy go on the concrete and that "puppy play" is enough to tighten and allow joints to grow properly. I specificaly asked my vet if concrete is bad for the puppies joints, she said it makes no difference what they are walking on. I also asked if I should keep him from going down stairs because many breeders also warned against stair use repetition. She said it won't hurt anything.


I wouldn't run stadium steps with a puppy, but normal use of steps should be fine. Walking for 10 minutes on concrete would be fine. Running for 30 minutes on concrete, imo, is not fine for a baby puppy.

I warn my puppy buyers against repetitive pounding, repetitive stress activities in growing dogs. Their joints are somewhat malleable in the first year, and it's better to let them grow up with normal, free-choice amounts of exercise. 

Lack of exercise, imo, is as bad as too much. Worst of all is letting the dog get overweight as a puppy--studies show a significantly increased chance (like a 60% increase) of orthopedic/joint problems in pups who are at 110% of ideal weight (if I am remembering the studies correctly). If you google "overfeeding puppies orthopedic problems" a bunch of studies are out there.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Just as a side note, my pups ears didn't stand up all the time until he was 9 months old. Although this is on the outside of the normal time frame, it still can happen.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Lack of exercise, imo, is as bad as too much. Worst of all is letting the dog get overweight as a puppy--studies show a significantly increased chance (like a 60% increase) of orthopedic/joint problems in pups who are at 110% of ideal weight (if I am remembering the studies correctly). If you google "overfeeding puppies orthopedic problems" a bunch of studies are out there.


I've read that it is good to allow pupps to get hungry and not let them eat as much as they want.

Is this correct?

He weighed in at 16.1 pounds at 9 weeks. The vet said he's at a perfect weight.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

I would try to get him into a routine of feeding 2-3 times a day. Free feeding is never good for any dog unless you are 100% sure your dog won't overeat. Some dogs do a great job at managing their own weight, others will eat and eat and become fat blobs. Not to mention that it can mess with food drive if they can just eat whenever they want.
Puppy weight is tricky at best. Personally, I don't like the fat puppy look and big bellies are not allowed here


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

tuffloud1 said:


>


Btw it already looks like his left ear is on the way up in this picture


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

Tbarrios333 said:


> Btw it already looks like his left ear is on the way up in this picture


Ya, that left one has different "crinkles" in it and tries to go up, but the right one looks completely free of "crinkles" and just kind of lays flat all the time. Is this normal?


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## abakerrr (Aug 8, 2008)

Good looking pup! He looks like german showlines, right? Don't be surprised if his ears take a few weeks/ months to go up. They'll likely go through that crazy puppy stage where the shape of them changes hourly. 

Hope you're enjoying the little monster!


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Yep totally normal. Lots of chews should do the trick. I'm sure in a few months you will be laughing at his crazy ears and taking bets on how they will look the next day.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

abakerrr said:


> Good looking pup! He looks like german showlines, right? Don't be surprised if his ears take a few weeks/ months to go up. They'll likely go through that crazy puppy stage where the shape of them changes hourly.
> 
> Hope you're enjoying the little monster!


Yep, German showline.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm still a little conflicted on choosing the right food. I'm currently feeding him Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy.

Some say this is not good because it isn't "large breed" puppy. A Blue Buffalo rep was at Petsmart when I was there, she said to go with Blue Buffalo Large breed Puppy. I already bought a large bag of the Puppy Wildreness so I'm a little upset about having to buy another bag of something else. I held off and went to a Dog Health food store around the corner.

They guy in there used to train CHP shepherds. I asked him if large breed puppy formula would be better than Wilderness Puppy. He said unless my GSD ends up being over 85 pounds, he is not large breed. He said the Wilderness Puppy is a great food and to stick with that.

Thoughts?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Look at calcium/phosphorous levels: Calcium & Phosphorous Requirements for Dogs


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

to answer about the "plop" when they hit the floor, totally normal,,my adult dogs sometimes hit the floor like a ton of bricks, no worries there. 

I agree with jean and the link above. 

What was the breeder feeding him prior? you mayhave posted and I may have missed it..


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> to answer about the "plop" when they hit the floor, totally normal,,my adult dogs sometimes hit the floor like a ton of bricks, no worries there.
> 
> I agree with jean and the link above.
> 
> What was the breeder feeding him prior? you mayhave posted and I may have missed it..


After reading that article, it seems that the Wilderness Puppy is pretty much inline with this correct?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Which wilderness puppy are you feeding? Usually the information shown is the minimum calcium/phos. You need to know the maximum. As far as I know the only ones that have the right ratio is Wellness super5mix LBP, Orijen and Acana.
Wellness Complete Health® Super5Mix® Large Breed - Puppy Health
Puppy Large Analysis


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Which wilderness puppy are you feeding? Usually the information shown is the minimum calcium/phos. You need to know the maximum. As far as I know the only ones that have the right ratio is Wellness super5mix LBP, Orijen and Acana.
> Wellness Complete Health® Super5Mix® Large Breed - Puppy Health
> Puppy Large Analysis


After reading the Orijen website, I'm pretty much sold on the ingredients. I see a huge difference in quality. 

I think I'm going to switch to Orijen Large Breed Puppy.

What do you think?


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I still haven't found a definete answer on whether the German Shepherd is a large breed or not. 

Some say it is, some say it's not, some say over 50lb is large breed, some say over 85lb is large breed as the guy in the pet health food store said.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

As far as nutrition goes, yes the LBP is appropriate, or go with a good adult food. Watching the calcium: phos. levels is most important.
Some dogs do well on Orijen, others not...depends on your dog, remember not to overfeed, as that can cause runny stools. I would also get your puppy swimming and playing lots of fetch, tug, run the flirtpole to build muscle. Raw fresh knucklebones have cartilage which will help the ears, teething and add nutrients, I would give one a few times a week under supervision.


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## tuffloud1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm not sure if maybe some of you are confusing Blue Buffalo Wilderness with Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy formula.

The Puppy formula just came out, it's not the same as the regular Wilderness.


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