# Kirschental lines



## Mack12

My puppy Mack is the product of both parents being of Kirschental bloodline. Ive tried to look up as much as I could. Some say that this line has a mix of German Working and Show.. Just trying to understand my pup better. He is actually great..better than I could have hoped for. Im just fascinated with all the lines and the work that go into them. Does anyone have some answers on what Kirshental line are like vs other blood lines? Pros vs Cons? Thanks in advance.


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## lhczth

Did you read the website for Kirschental kennels? Much has been translated into English. 

http://www.kirschental.de/


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## Vandal

I think the old female line used by this kennel, ( descending back to Blanka vom Mummelsee ), is quite a good one. Very willing dogs with what some call "genetic obedience" in high doses. Dogs with the ability to hear their handler and quite responsive to simple praise. The many I worked, who had this female line, did the work for the satisfaction of working. I think this is maybe difficult for people to understand now, that a dog can get drive satisfaction in the work itself, without being bribed or constantly "rewarded' with with food, toys and grips. The work was the reward. I have always viewed it as a very strong female line that has a strong influence, even when bred to lines with less working ability. That is what I have seen anyway . When bred with strong working lines, simply super.


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## Freestep

Is Kirschental considered working line or show?


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## Mack12

Lisa, I did find that webpage..I was just looking for a little more info from people that have had personal experience with this line. Thanks for the replies..It helps.


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## Vandal

Years ago, it was considered a working line, (HGH /herding), when herding was actually really herding and not just a "show". Especially, ( as he mentions in the "History" section of the web site Lisa provided), the breeding with Uwe and before that. 
Later on, he started breeding pretty heavily into show lines. 
I think nowadays, it is associated more with show lines because of the direction the breeder went in. I haven't see tons of dogs from this kennel nowadays but what I said, I found to be the case some years back. I think he could get away with using what might have been a lesser male with that female line but again, herding in Germany is not what it once was...according to those who really did it .


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## holland

My friend used to tell me that she thought my rescue GSD had Kirschental lines in her-she just really wanted to be trained and enjoyed it-I emailed Marion once and she responded -bet she would give you info if you e-mailed her


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## Liesje

I would call Kirschental show lines now. Herr Fuller is actually ill and his wife Marion is in the process of selling their dogs so it is the end of an era.

My Nikon's dam is from Kirschental (carries the kennel name and was imported). She was born when her dam was 10 years old, so this brings some good blood (some of the working stuff Herr Fuller originally used) closer up in Nikon's pedigree. The motherline is definitely the strength of his pedigree. His sire is not from Kirschental but another German show kennel with more typical lines that are popular today.


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## Mack12

I didnt realize he was that ill and she was selling the dogs. All good things must come to an end, but I do hope that there are breeders out there that will keep this line going and do it justice. Im really just blown away by my dog. I do remember seeing his mother and father..the mom ruled, was kinda funny actually. I would get another in a heartbeat and I just stumble upon this breeder thats been doing it for 25 years in upstate NY.


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## Liesje

Traumhof has a lot of imported Kirschental dogs.


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## Freestep

Would it be fair to say that the Kirschental line today is a show line that is also strong in the work?

I once had a pup whose dam line went back to Kirschental. She was very biddable and wanted to work just to please me. Very nice, quick, happy obedience. Unfortunately, she had terrible hips, and was sensitive, thin on nerves. I don't know how much of that was pain-related, but when we'd go on walks, she'd start out all bold and confident and then get more nervous and reactive toward the end of the walk. It was bizarre behavior to me, because with nervous/fearful dogs, it's usually the opposite.

Here is her pedigree.

Line-breeding for the progency of Zasko z Gentu and Senta vom Wasserrad - German Shepherd Dog


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## Liesje

Depends on the individual dog now, methinks. Of the ones I've seen (from Kirschental and carrying the kennel name, not going back to Kirschental), a few I'd take home in a heartbeat and a few you couldn't pay me to take. I believe the formula was originally to take a strong working bitch to a more typey showline male but now several generations out it's more showline bitch that goes back on a strong motherline to a showline male.


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## carmspack

here is the web site of a local kennel that specializes in "Kirschental" Alpenhof . Zasara

It is a far cry from the beginings V Fenga vom Kirschental - German Shepherd Dog (Blanka Mummelsee) from Vefa Kirschental, merging another thoroughly tried and tested , well established old herding line (Dori aus der Wanderschaferei) through Centi Kirschental . Fenga is the dam of Uwe and Uran Kirschental . Generally this U litter Kirschental marks the end of a "type" of breeding.
To add to the story you must bring in Fritz Biehler .
This man pretty well owned top spot on the BSP podium . His personal competition dogs were Enno Antrefftal , then his son Drigon Furhmannshof -- then at his insistence , because he saw something special in Fenga , and why not - pedigree to die for, Drigon was bred to Fenga . The offspring were after the name Kirschental . Biehler took Uwe as his next personal competition dog. 

who really is the breeder. 

Kirschental modern days is more of a brand name recognition


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## Mack12

Thanks to everyone..I appreciate all the info.


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## Sherry

Wondering who the breeder was for Mac if both parents were from Kirschental bloodline? Was he directly from the Kirchental breeders in Germany? 



Mack12 said:


> My puppy Mack is the product of both parents being of Kirschental bloodline. Ive tried to look up as much as I could. Some say that this line has a mix of German Working and Show.. Just trying to understand my pup better. He is actually great..better than I could have hoped for. Im just fascinated with all the lines and the work that go into them. Does anyone have some answers on what Kirshental line are like vs other blood lines? Pros vs Cons? Thanks in advance.


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## Mack12

The breeder is Vom Rhineland from bouckville ny...its upstate. The woman told be that is the line that she uses only....That is as much as i know.


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## onyx'girl

Karl Fuller passed away today...may he rest in peace after he was greeted by those who were at the bridge to welcome him 'home' 








Amazing image from this page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Castlebrook-Shepherds/163009670378325


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## Xeph

Oh my....what a profound loss for the breed


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## blehmannwa

Oh that is so sad. Havoc is Vom Kirschental lines and is a remarkable dog. It is a profound loss.


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## cliffson1

Had dog in seventies, out of Welle v Kirschental, (looking at pedigree now), Welle's mother was Vrigga v Kirschental HGH(who was Bernd v Lierberg daughter) and Welle's sire was Canto v Wienerau.....and the dog was super!


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## Josie/Zeus

RIP Karl.


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## Mrs.K

RIP Karl. An era has come to an end, may you be re-united with all the dogs waiting at the bridge for you.


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## Loneforce

Rest in Peace Karl


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## 4TheDawgies

What a loss  RIP


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## Saxtonhill

Very sad news...indeed an era has come to an end. Rest in peace Mr. Fuller.


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## wolfstraum

RIP Karl Fuller and Kirshental 

Looked at the pedigrees of the dogs advertised for sale....most had one line female usually, that carried the name Kirshental back through generations, and most of the males used for producing litters were well known show males...

Lee


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## EnlightenedOne

RIP Karl God Bless.


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## JakodaCD OA

My first gsd when I moved out on my own was from Kirshental (working)lines that were used in Fidelco guide dog program. He was the "best". 

RIP Karl, you produced some of the finest dogs in the world.
This was Jake


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## Liesje

Nikon (right) about 9 months old, with his dam Kira (Quellie vom Kirschental)


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## Mack12

*Rip*

My dog is from Kirschental lines and he is by far the most smart and gentle dog I have ever had.....Somewhere in the mix greatness was found......RIP..job well done.


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## mrawle

So - Having had one Von Kirschental dog, I agree, he is simply the best and a joy to gaze on in addition. They look like old world shepherds to me, grace and beauty, plus intelligence.
Anyone know any breeder with Von Kirschental dogs still in their program?

Thanks lots.


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## John C.

My Sundance is from Kirschental lines. His mother, Java, was supposedly the last dog titled by Karl Fuller. He is a super loving dog, with a terrific temperament. Great with other dogs. Neutral/friendly around people. Almost nothing seems to faze him.

I got him from Olympia kennels in New Hampshire. I believe they have a couple of Kirschental females, although his mom, Java, is getting up there in age, so I'm not sure she is still being bred.

I believe there are a couple of other kennels in the New England area that have Kirschental dogs, or at least females descended from Kirschental lines.


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## mspiker03

I agree that there are a few out there that are breeding kirschental lined dogs as well as dogs directly from the kennel. There is a Facebook group for dogs from the kennel and their progeny and you can get an idea of who may be breeding here in the states or overseas.


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## alexg

Traumhof German Shepherd Dogs?


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## carmspack

when I think of "Kirschental" it is the OLD working blood , not the newer show mixes which were influenced by someone else for other reasons -- change probably beginning with Eiko Kirschental.


I think of Pirol, Uwe, Uran, Vefa , Fenga, Isa , whose progeny were key to the best of modern working dogs with family names such as Itztal , Schloss Zweibruggen, von Keyleff , haus Knufken , Bildsaule , Kahlenbach.


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## cliffson1

Ahhhh, really great dogs and lines that Karl Fuller was right in the middle of....:grin2:


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## alexg

carmspack said:


> when I think of "Kirschental" it is the OLD working blood , not the newer show mixes which were influenced by someone else for other reasons -- change probably beginning with Eiko Kirschental.
> 
> 
> I think of Pirol, Uwe, Uran, Vefa , Fenga, Isa , whose progeny were key to the best of modern working dogs with family names such as Itztal , Schloss Zweibruggen, von Keyleff , haus Knufken , Bildsaule , Kahlenbach.


Are there the breeders in the US who breeds these lines?


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## carmspack

there sure are .


They are called working line breeders . You won't find them under direct Kirschental recent parentage - those are completely different dogs . I think his son took over the trademark name --- but the essence of the old Kirschental is long gone .
I made a point of collecting these disappearing lines.
Binga Kuhnhof was bred to the last son of Uran Kirschental NOT to be confused with Uran Wildsteiger Land .
Here is that pedigree full of old herding lines --- Tarbas vom Haus Knüfken
that pedigree flows through my genetics.


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## carmspack

older lines that carried the herding dogs and Kirschental lines 
Derry / Dunja Greifenstein --- Derry was Sue Barwigs dog -- I bred to that male (son of Uwe)
Racker Itztal
Amigo Brachler See 
Dunja Wachtersflur 
Yoschy Dollenwiese 
and more 


Kirschental was not the only herding line -- competing shepherd - Haus Knufken


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## onyx'girl

Gambit has Uwe on both sides of his pedigree 5-7 generations back.


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## Blondi's Revenge

John C. said:


> My Sundance is from Kirschental lines. His mother, Java, was supposedly the last dog titled by Karl Fuller. He is a super loving dog, with a terrific temperament. Great with other dogs.  Neutral/friendly around people. Almost nothing seems to faze him.
> 
> I got him from Olympia kennels in New Hampshire. I believe they have a couple of Kirschental females, although his mom, Java, is getting up there in age, so I'm not sure she is still being bred.
> 
> I believe there are a couple of other kennels in the New England area that have Kirschental dogs, or at least females descended from Kirschental lines.


do you have pics?


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