# dogvember



## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

So someone suggested we use November as a challenge month. The hashtag #dogvember was suggested. I really like that so I'm going with it.


I'm going to try for a back up and recall. My dogs back up but don't really like it so this will be a tougher challenge. This first video is a completely raw not thought out first thing in the morning try out. For those that love shaping, great. I am not that patient. I am a Show Me What You Want kind of person. So many things could be done differently than this but I wanted to get a base line established, blemishes and all.

Happy #Dogvember y'all


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

The excited barking in the video set Rogan off, thanks a lot
Both dogs really want to know where those intruders are


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Haha, thats cool! The property looks awesome, especially for training. 


Is chifi a very vocal one? (Probably butchered the spelling).


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Fun to watch. I also only get a few steps back from my boy when giving the backup command. Never figured out how to get more without repeating the command. And when I do repeat for further distance he gives me lip as he does it. 🤔🙃

That’s pretty good considering how much distraction you are working through never mind the dogs.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

You have some good looking dogs. I couldn’t quite hear you since I’m outside on a street. Do you have a continuation marker you use?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

That is a good idea. I started to teach back up and stopped. I even have a method. One dog knows reverse, which is to walk backwards when I walk towards him, but he won’t do it on his own.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Back up is one of Cava’s strongest tricks. She just started doing it naturally down the dog run when i have a toy. I added the verbal cue and a hand signal and worked on further distance from there.

Once you’ve got a pretty solid back up you can use it to train other, more advanced tricks, like a rear foot target, backing into a handstand, and backing up stairs.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Back up is one of Cava’s strongest tricks. She just started doing it naturally down the dog run when i have a toy. I added the verbal cue and a hand signal and worked on further distance from there.
> 
> Once you’ve got a pretty solid back up you can use it to train other, more advanced tricks, like a rear foot target, backing into a handstand, and backing up stairs.


backing up is an important skill for my dogs since we travel in an RV and when the slides are in the middle "hall" is too skinny for them to turn around easily. Rear targeting might be good for both to learn. Handstands will be tough on my big-boy. I think Chief could handle it. Backing up stairs?!? wow, that sounds advanced! Might see if I can work towards that in "21.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

After videoing yesterday I realized we should probably do some position drills. We start many many things with the heel position. It is a safe place. As one of our trainers told us "nothing bad ever happens in the proper heel position". So if they are confused that is where they go. Today I'll do some heel to middle to heel to front and perhaps a step or two backwards from there. 

Are any of you trying new skills this month?


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

some success! We are getting there.







Dogvember day 5


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

car2ner said:


> some success! We are getting there.
> View attachment 565455
> Dogvember day 5


Awesome progress! I better get to work!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

car2ner said:


> backing up is an important skill for my dogs since we travel in an RV and when the slides are in the middle "hall" is too skinny for them to turn around easily. Rear targeting might be good for both to learn.


Here's Cava's back up to rear foot target. I use a little stool to make it very clear for her, but it could be anything.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

How do the dog dancing trainers teach walking backwards?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

car2ner said:


> some success! We are getting there.
> View attachment 565455
> Dogvember day 5


Love the progress!!!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Here's Cava's back up to rear foot target. I use a little stool to make it very clear for her, but it could be anything.


that got me thinking it might be helpful for my dogs to realize that there is a goal in the backing up. Will Cava back up if you don't move forward? I'm still trying to convince my dogs that they won't loose out on a nice reward if they put distance into the skill. When I call for a Down on Recall my gal-dog will usually stop and down nicely but my big-boy creeps a few steps forward.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

David Winners said:


> How do the dog dancing trainers teach walking backwards?


good question. If they are using shaping it might take so long that they might not get a polished behavior in time for a trial. But dogs that enjoy shaping seem to move out better. I still use luring but I end up with dogs that want to stay closer to me. I can get a ton of behaviors but not at distance.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I would use a target


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

car2ner said:


> that got me thinking it might be helpful for my dogs to realize that there is a goal in the backing up. Will Cava back up if you don't move forward?


Yes, absolutely. At least 10 or 15 feet, maybe more. I’ve never actually measured it. That was a brand new behavior and I wanted to reinforce her in place rather than marking it and having her come to me for the reward, which she would likely do. So the only reason I’m stepping in is to quickly drop a treat in front of her on the ground. That’s also why i’m cuing it while I’m so close to her.

I haven’t worked on it for awhile, but the next step would for me to send her from a further distance and have her hold the position longer.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Yes, absolutely. At least 10 or 15 feet, maybe more. I’ve never actually measured it. That was a brand new behavior and I wanted to reinforce her in place rather than marking it and having her come to me for the reward, which she would likely do. So the only reason I’m stepping is to quickly drop a treat in front of her on the ground. That’s also why i’m cuing it while I’m so close to her.
> 
> I haven’t worked on it for awhile, but the next step would for me to send her from a further distance and have her hold the position longer.


So was the box the cue to stop backing up and a reward would come? Oh this for me is the answer to a continued back up. Give him a tactile target spot. WoooHooo!


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## chuckd (Jul 16, 2019)

Thanks for documenting and sharing your progress. Y'all are looking good!

Walking backwards (trying to teach it) has been frustrating with Gunnar. For some reason, in multiple spots around the house, he'll walk backwards- straight and around corners and objects, instead of just turning around (_plenty _of space) and walking with me. So obviously, he can do it- just not on cue.

I never thought to try targets for this...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Heartandsoul said:


> So was the box the cue to stop backing up and a reward would come? Oh this for me is the answer to a continued back up. Give him a tactile target spot. WoooHooo!


Yes, but the stool was already something we'd worked on, it was the first step towards her handstand. I have a 3 ft x 6 ft "wall" that we use in flyball training. It can be leaned against things at various angles, we train the dogs to eventually rebound off it when it's completely vertical. I tried using that for the handstand and if it was too steep she didn't understand what I wanted her to do. Too low an angle, and she'd just back all the way up it with all four feet, lol. So I got the stool and put it up against a wall. It was only big enough for her back feet. Once she'd back up onto it, I added the leg extensions that came with the stool to make it a few inches taller. Then I put a short tote underneath to add another couple inches, and another tote. By then it was pretty rickety, and I really couldn't add any more height without the whole thing collapsing, so I went back to the board and she figured out to back up into a handstand fairly quickly. 

So when I used the stool for a rear foot target, she was already familiar with the basic concept. You could use a small piece of plywood flat on the ground as a rear target too. It was all about rear end awareness, which is a good skill for flyball and for lots of other things too. Dogs aren't always good at that so it's a good thing to teach.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

just be thoughtful of how you want to teach back foot targeting or you will end up with a mess like this.  my gal dog reaches the target and then sits on it. Make sense because in the house we have a low step that she sits on to do "sit pretty".





 this is just a "see how they do" video. When it comes time to add the targeting I will probably teach that as its own skill and then chain them together.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Giving him a target worked beautifully. I used 2 thin kitchen chair cushions for the tactile target. I only want tactile difference and not space/height. I did several reps and by the end did not need to repeat the command either verbal or by hand nor have to follow him. He back up and stopped when he felt back legs on the cushions. I will need to increase distance a little at a time so he get use to a decent long distance before hitting the target. then next step during the back up add a “stop” command before reaching the target then command “back up” again until he hits the target. Do this until he is very fluid with it and then faze out the target since it was just to get him to continue backing up with out having to re-command or having him decide on his own when to stop. Will take a couple weeks for good fluid results and be able to faze out the target. I hope you didn’t mind I kind of muscled in on your thread, but I am so happy and this isn’t the first thread of yours that I have benefitted from and your vids so very inspirational in just getting out and playing.🙂

Hugs to @car2ner and @Cassidy's Mom.

I do have vids but no You tube acct yet so here’s a pic. I used a chaise lounge to keep him in a straight line. He gets so off center. Sorry for hijacking your thread will start my own lol. So excited lol


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I just viewed your vid. Your two make me smile and I love the bond you have with them.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

thanks. They are good dogs. Makes it a pleasure to go out and spend time with them.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Heartandsoul said:


> Giving him a target worked beautifully. I used 2 thin kitchen chair cushions for the tactile target. I only want tactile difference and not space/height. I did several reps and by the end did not need to repeat the command either verbal or by hand nor have to follow him. He back up and stopped when he felt back legs on the cushions. I will need to increase distance a little at a time so he get use to a decent long distance before hitting the target. then next step during the back up add a “stop” command before reaching the target then command “back up” again until he hits the target. Do this until he is very fluid with it and then faze out the target since it was just to get him to continue backing up with out having to re-command or having him decide on his own when to stop. Will take a couple weeks for good fluid results and be able to faze out the target. I hope you didn’t mind I kind of muscled in on your thread, but I am so happy and this isn’t the first thread of yours that I have benefitted from and your vids so very inspirational in just getting out and playing.🙂
> 
> Hugs to @car2ner and @Cassidy's Mom.
> 
> ...


Not muscling in at all. I am delighted that you are adding your technique. I'll be using this when I move to backing up to a target. Right now I am sticking with the idea of coming to front and then backing up on command. Heel is their default and they are learning to watch which position I want them to start from.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Heartandsoul said:


> Giving him a target worked beautifully. I used 2 thin kitchen chair cushions for the tactile target. I only want tactile difference and not space/height. I did several reps and by the end did not need to repeat the command either verbal or by hand nor have to follow him. He back up and stopped when he felt back legs on the cushions. I will need to increase distance a little at a time so he get use to a decent long distance before hitting the target.


Awesome! Yes, a tactile difference is really all you need for a rear foot target.



> I used a chaise lounge to keep him in a straight line. He gets so off center.


Yard furniture FTW! Cava wasn't so good at backing up in a straight line either, so I used props at first to keep her from going off to one side or the other while she figured out what to do with her feet. And when I started working on backing up over a ladder I used my patio chairs to create a channel:


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

very cool. does the ladder help them pick up their feet? Otherwise why do you choose to walk over the ladder.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

It was specifically one of the tricks for her Expert Trick Dog title, but generally it’s to teach rear end awareness. Not so much just picking up the feet but paying attention to what their back feet are doing. Often the back feet are just along for the ride, following the front feet around. It’s cool to watch the dog figure how to feel around with their back feet and step more deliberately.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

it was a rainy couple of days. Decided to use the change from hardwood to carpet at the end of my hallway as a target. It only took one time for my gal-dog to assume I wanted her on the carpet. She did not automatically guess that I wanted her to back up to the carpet. I suspect a few more practices and my big-boy will have that figured out.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Practical application yesterday. I was gathering some heavy things outside of my fence. Of course both dogs were watching me and I didn't want to open the gate with my arms full. I decided to drop a few things over the fence to free up my hands but I didn't want anything to fall onto my dogs. A " Back" command and my gal-dog stepped back and left a nice clear place to drop my load. What a good girl.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I’m just bringing this back to the forefront so ya don’t forget to update. I love that you had a situation that gave you an opportunity to use the command for good purpose. 

I have some great videos proving just how sloppy my technique is and how well my boy loudlyvocal plows through it lol. 

I can see progress with your two from the vids.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Heartandsoul said:


> I’m just bringing this back to the forefront so ya don’t forget to update. I love that you had a situation that gave you an opportunity to use the command for good purpose.
> 
> I have some great videos proving just how sloppy my technique is and how well my boy loudlyvocal plows through it lol.
> 
> I can see progress with your two from the vids.


videos are humbling but are valuable, especially now that it is tougher to work along side someone. I took a break from videoing the back up, although we are still working on it. I did a video of a skill we've not practiced as much the past few weeks.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

car2ner said:


> videos are humbling but are valuable, especially now that it is tougher to work along side someone. I took a break from videoing the back up, although we are still working on it. I did a video of a skill we've not practiced as much the past few weeks.


I subscribed to your channel. You have a wonderful relationship with your dogs and I really enjoyed the tracking.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

thanks, I was glad to be able to get a decent video this time. tough to hold a leash and camera at the same time.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

car2ner said:


> thanks, I was glad to be able to get a decent video this time. tough to hold a leash and camera at the same time.


I have a head harness for a go pro knockoff.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

today's video features a fuzzy butt backing up. Good boy


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Still Dogvember but the focus was just on some fetch games. My gal-dog wanted to cheat and search behind the sapling next to use instead of the Christmas tree. So much for trying to make a nice holiday inspired video


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I was curious how far Cava would back up with me being stationary. I'd never specifically worked on distance before and had never measured. In these clips she's going at least 15 feet. She's um, vocal, lol. At one point she breaks and comes towards me but I make her back up again and she has some things to say about that!






We worked on it more after that and I was able to get her to go a little further, her front feet were beyond the edge of the ladder, which was 20 feet. She really likes this game.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

car2ner said:


> today's video features a fuzzy butt backing up. Good boy


“Backupbackupbackupbackup”. 

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

chuckd said:


> Thanks for documenting and sharing your progress. Y'all are looking good!
> 
> Walking backwards (trying to teach it) has been frustrating with Gunnar. For some reason, in multiple spots around the house, he'll walk backwards- straight and around corners and objects, instead of just turning around (_plenty _of space) and walking with me. So obviously, he can do it- just not on cue.
> 
> I never thought to try targets for this...


Mark it when he does it on his own.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

@car2ner your last back up vid made me laugh hard because I have done that. Also made me want to include a vid too so I created an acct. 

It’s the last vid taken last week About 15 feet or so. I use what is easy to grab to suite my needs didn’t care how it looked. I gave only one command and when he stopped he had to figure out that he had to continue. I didn’t help him and he protested loudly but did it so I jack potted with the reward.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Great sound effects


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I'm really enjoying your videos of this exercise. Y'all rock. And the dogs, too.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

here is the last video of Dogvember. Thanks for putting up with the funky video quality. Looks like my new year resolution will be to Up my video skills beyond chopping off the extra ends and adding some music.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

car2ner said:


> here is the last video of Dogvember. Thanks for putting up with the funky video quality. Looks like my new year resolution will be to Up my video skills beyond chopping off the extra ends and adding some music.


Love the wheelchair idea! And the doughnut on the head thing made me spit tea out 

Awesome!


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