# Sarcocystis from raw meat



## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

My dog tested positive for this parasite, our vet told us it was from the raw meat we gave him and told us not to give it to him anymore. I am sold on the raw diet you don't have to convince me BUT my husband is not and now he will no longer support me feeding it and admittedly I am a little nervous now knowing my dog got this because I thought raw was better. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I know freezing can kill it but what else could be in the meat that could cause problems? All that work I did to convince my husband raw was the way to go all in the toilet... This is more a vent I guess, no stories you could tell would ever convince him unless it's backed up by actual scientific evidence everything else is just anecdotal to him.

*sigh*


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Can you keep hubby on board by making a plan to freeze before feeding? It's rare, but just to be safe?!


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Ollie only had some diarrhea but otherwise he's completely normal and there is no treatment for it, it's supposed to go away on its own. I told him about freezing but now he's worried about what else may be in the meat... He's never been for it, he thinks it's a fad and honestly unless you have some actual proof of a study done showing it's benefits nothing will really convince him, this was just the thing he was looking for to get back on the hate train lol. We're comprising and doing Honest Kitchen(even though 'I' know that's way more expensive) for now, it's just a sensitive time right now because we've got several thousand dollars sunk into my cat who's in renal failure and he's imagining all these vet bills from raw meat. He's weird, lol. It was just really really bad timing for this to happen as I was in the middle of getting my little dogs onto raw and already have a giant bag of chicken in the freezer.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Is your vet, in general, against raw feeding? (just curious) I do get that some dogs get sick from raw feeding, but I still think it would be a high probability of getting something nasty from that lake in Laguna - those nasty waters are stagnant and gross. So, unless he (vet) tested the meat...

But, well, you know all my thoughts or ideas already...  I just hate when vets jump on the "it has to be the raw meat bandwagon" without entertaining other possibilities.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I've never discussed raw feeding with my vet but they are the standard type that push vaccines and early spay and neuters... One of the newer vets there told me honest kitchen was bad for my puppy(when Ollie was younger) and that I should put him on science diet puppy formula sooo.  

He could have gotten it from the lake but my husband trusts vets a lot more then I do and the vet didn't say it could come from any other source 'but' raw meat. He's not even raw fed right now, I only give him a little bit of raw beef every now and then as a training treat.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I am just so skeptical at times. I had a vet tell me that Leyna needed her tongue biopsied because she had one of those black spots on it. She was less than a year old, and we had no idea... we *almost* went through with it because that is what the vet recommended. Thankfully, we didn't...And then I started to research a lot more.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Can you compromise and feed a dehydrated raw?

Amazon.com: dehydrated raw dog food: Pet Supplies


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Maybe do some research to find out if its possible to get it from the lake. And also let your husband know that dogs can also get sick from kibble. nothing is 100% percent. Men like facts. Give it a try.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Msmaria said:


> Maybe do some research to find out if its possible to get it from the lake. And also let your husband know that dogs can also get sick from kibble. nothing is 100% percent. Men like facts. Give it a try.



I have told him all of that, doesn't really matter to him and since I am not able to work right now there's not much I can do about it otherwise I'd pay for it myself and do it anyway.  

Gretchen we are going to be feeding Honest Kitchen and I will slip them raw meat here and there but only after it's been frozen for a couple weeks. Some of the meat I gave him was ground stuff that hadn't been frozen so I messed up there. I will just give this some time to settle then try again.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

What about a home cooked diet? Next best thing to raw and usually recommended over raw for elderly dogs or dogs who have compromised immune systems. 
I feed mostly raw, but also make some pressure cooker meals, especially in the winter. You can cook down bones to where they become brittle enough to feed cooked.
Throw a whole chicken or rabbit in the pressure cooker with some water, towards the end add veggies (optional, I like feeding veggies). Make sure the bones can be crushed easily with a spoon. Save the broth- it makes a great joint supplement.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Sarcocystis is rare in dogs. But we have seen 3-4 clinical cases in dogs at my clinic. The are weak, muscle sore, painful. It is treatable. 

It is not something they get from water. The get it from eating infected animals. That said, none of the dogs we have seen clinically were raw fed. 

It's the same organism that causes EPM in horses. We are just now stated to put it on our rule list for dogs. 




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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Took me awhile to find this again. Its an interesting read:

Raw Dog Food Research: Should I feed raw?????


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

gsdsar said:


> Sarcocystis is rare in dogs. But we have seen 3-4 clinical cases in dogs at my clinic. The are weak, muscle sore, painful. It is treatable.
> 
> It is not something they get from water. The get it from eating infected animals. That said, none of the dogs we have seen clinically were raw fed.
> 
> ...


Actually there was a publication from the government in Michigan that states you (well not you but a dog perhaps!) can get it from eating infected feces. I believe there was another publication that stated the info about water being infected from feces. I am on my phone or I would link to it.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

My golden has been a little sick as well so he will be tested too, now if HE comes back with it as well then I might have a case because he doesn't get raw(he's my husbands dog) but my husband is not skeptical of what vets say so it's hard to build a case because he BELIEVES the vet about where it came from whether it can be picked up from other places or not.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

The issue is that my husband is a dog lover but he's not a 'dog person' like I am... He doesn't take the time to research things, for example when I met him his dogs were over weight and were eating science diet, they got annual vaccs, etc... both of his dogs got cancer and one started having seizures the vets could never figure out. He never thought to research nutrition or try holistic(he thinks it's for 'hippies') so he and I just have completely different mind sets when it comes to this, he is more your average joe pet owner... has zero interest in dog sports and only wants a dog to laze around the house and walk once a day. So I completely get what you guys are saying but it doesn't mean the same thing to him, he thinks kibble is perfectly fine and would probably still be feeding science diet if I hadn't of come along.

Home cooked might work, would just have to work out how to do it because we have four dogs and might get kind of pricey.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It's common with sheep and I wonder if he could have picked it up while doing his herding? Can it be transmitted any other way besides ingestion? Like if he smelled and licked sheep poop, can he get it like that?


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

llombardo said:


> It's common with sheep and I wonder if he could have picked it up while doing his herding? Can it be transmitted any other way besides ingestion? Like if he smelled and licked sheep poop, can he get it like that?



I'm not sure I've never even heard of it until I found out he had it... But it's possible, sheep poop is a fine delicacy to him though he hasn't been around sheep in two months. He will be doing more herding here soon and no way am I not taking him to the mountains to hike anymore so I won't be giving him raw meat for awhile but I'll keep testing his stool to see what happens. I've read it can be dangerous in horses but couldn't really find much info on dogs and how bad it may or may not be, he certainly doesn't seem to notice.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Did you feed raw deer meat without freezing first? - or any raw game before freezing first?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I asked my Dr about getting it other ways. Her dog was one if the ones that we have seen. And she is anti Raw diet. So we know that's not how. 

She does hike a lot. And it was possible that her dog ate feces of an infected animal. But they don't know. They know that horses are not out there eating Raw meat, but still they get it. They assume it's from eating feces on the ground they graze. 




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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

gsdsar said:


> I asked my Dr about getting it other ways. Her dog was one if the ones that we have seen. And she is anti Raw diet. So we know that's not how.
> 
> She does hike a lot. And it was possible that her dog ate feces of an infected animal. But they don't know. They know that horses are not out there eating Raw meat, but still they get it. They assume it's from eating feces on the ground they graze.
> 
> ...


So you don't think I am just making it up (although I am sure you don't) 

DNR - Sarcocystosis

And while this next article from the CDC pertains to a different county, it does state that people can be infected by " food, water, or soil contaminated with infected animal feces"
Sarcocystosis in Malaysia - Watch - Level 1, Practice Usual Precautions - Travel Health Notices | Travelers' Health | CDC

My beef with *some* vets is that they are so quick to blame raw, without looking at other options. I do get that some dogs don't do well on raw - or can get sick, just like they can get sick from eating kibble. But, in this case, I found it odd that her two little dogs are seemingly fine (have not been tested) and they are being switched to raw. The two bigger dogs (who have been sick in some form, although one hasn't been tested yet(?)) were the only two to go hiking and swim in the nasty lake in January.

Carrie - And yes, I get the stubborn DH factor  I am "lucky" that mine went through the whole "you need to biopsy Leyna's tongue" issue and realized that it was a complete joke.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

mspiker03 said:


> So you don't think I am just making it up (although I am sure you don't)
> 
> DNR - Sarcocystosis
> 
> ...


I'm sorry. But did you ACTUALLY read my post?? I agreed with you. The post clearly states that the dogs we have seen were not on raw diets and had no access to carcasses. It was assumed that they ate feces of infective animals. 

Please read a post first before rebutting. 


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

gsdsar said:


> I'm sorry. But did you ACTUALLY read my post?? I agreed with you. The post clearly states that the dogs we have seen were not on raw diets and had no access to carcasses. It was assumed that they ate feces of infective animals.
> 
> Please read a post first before rebutting.
> 
> ...


Wow, wasn't trying to be snarky and I did read your post. I just responded at one point referencing some articles and I was just wanted to post where I got my info from. Next time I wont chime in with the referencing articles. Sorry...


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

mspiker03 said:


> Wow, wasn't trying to be snarky and I did read your post. I just responded at one point referencing some articles and I was just wanted to post where I got my info from. Next time I wont chime in with the referencing articles. Sorry...


Nope. I am sorry. Apparently I need to take a chill pill. Happens sometimes. LOL. Reference articles are cool. 


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I also read that it can be contracted from eating dead birds. Since the OP had only given some burger to her dog it is most like it came from other sources.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

My golden is at the vet today, he's been throwing up every day and can't really keep food down so I assume he'll get a fecal done as well. I live in suburbia so access to carcasses is very limited, I don't ever recall seeing him get into anything on our hikes but he is offleash so there is a chance he could of snatched something without me noticing.... On one of our hikes in December my golden found a bone that he proudly presented to us, we took it away from him immediately though. Recently though we did see one giant coyote and the trail has been littered with coyote poop(we even saw a deer carcass but we did not let them go near it). But like I said for now I'm doing dehydrated raw and will keep testing him... If he gets it again then I'll know 100% sure this time that it didn't come from something I gave him.

But thanks for all the info, it's probably not going to help my case right now lol but I keep this info handy in case it happens again.

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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Hope he feels better soon!!!


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## lovemytb (Aug 26, 2013)

Carriesue said:


> I've read it can be dangerous in horses but couldn't really find much info on dogs and how bad it may or may not be, he certainly doesn't seem to notice.
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I am a horse owner and have been around horses my entire life. I can tell you that EPM comes from opossum urine that gets on the stored hay. Most opossum's are infected with this virus and when they pee on horses food in this case would be hay and once the horse eats enough of infected hay it gets sick. EPM is very bad for a horse but can be curable if caught in time. I have a friend who's horse got it and its very bad disease for a horse to go through. I had no idea that dogs can get the same thing.


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