# Dog parks.....



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

So.. I'm in Orlando for a week for work and hit a dog park this afternoon to let the two dogs I have with me run it out for a bit. Well, I avoid dog parks, but foreign town and all... gotta burn off some energy. The normal types are there. My male is very dominant. A few dogs kept trying to challenge him, and he always shuts them down. I always intervene in public because I know people don't want to see that and the sight of a big GSD being "aggressive" isn't good for anyone, but on the flip side, what can you do when someone elses dog keeps trying to jump on, challenge, etc your dog? He's gonna respond the way he was designed to. If I didn't intervene he'd just do his thing and the dog would be put in his place and the thing would be over with. But, because I keep stopping it, the other dog doesn't get the hint (or the owner), and the situation repeats the whole time I'm there. So what does everyone do to handle this?

Side note... there were like... 8 wolf hybrids at this park.. out of maybe 15 dogs. I found that really odd. And so far my exposure to hybrids has been that they are highly independent (read disobedient), unruly, skittish, weave nerved and quick to get violent


----------



## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

If dogs won't leave my dominant girls alone, I leave. It's not worth the stress of fighting with the owner of the other dog. She will make a huge scene and although I know she never hurts the other dog, I worry about the other dogs attacking her. Plus, stupid owners annoy me so I avoid them like the plague. Even the more dog-saavy owners at my local dog park drive me nuts because they like to lecture me about all the other dogs. I nicely say, "I know, I see it too" and leave. Apparently only more tolerant people than me frequent dog parks


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> If I didn't intervene he'd just do his thing and the dog would be put in his place and the thing would be over with. But, because I keep stopping it, the other dog doesn't get the hint (or the owner), and the situation repeats the whole time I'm there. So what does everyone do to handle this?


Generally, I let it play it out as long as it doesn't get too heated. I find that dogs respect boundaries better when the other dog sets them so I let my dogs give fair and appropriate corrections with fosters. I also know my dogs thresholds and will stop it if I think _my_ dog will take it too far. I'd probably feel out the other owner to see if they'd be receptive to it before letting it get to that point. If I think they'd freak out, I'd just keep my dog away from the others. It's mostly the reason I stopped going to dog parks. Raven was actually the dog that was being bullied and wouldn't stop it, so I stopped going because I spent the entire time body blocking. Now, she can be a bully with fosters. 



hunterisgreat said:


> Side note... there were like... 8 wolf hybrids at this park.. out of maybe 15 dogs. I found that really odd. And so far my exposure to hybrids has been that they are highly independent (read disobedient), unruly, skittish, weave nerved and quick to get violent


How do you know they are hybrids?


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

hunterisgreat said:


> My male is very dominant. A few dogs kept trying to challenge him, and he always shuts them down. I always intervene in public because I know people don't want to see that and the sight of a big GSD being "aggressive" isn't good for anyone, but on the flip side, what can you do when someone elses dog keeps trying to jump on, challenge, etc your dog? He's gonna respond the way he was designed to. If I didn't intervene he'd just do his thing and the dog would be put in his place and the thing would be over with. But, because I keep stopping it, the other dog doesn't get the hint (or the owner), and the situation repeats the whole time I'm there. So what does everyone do to handle this?


If the other owner won't intervene to stop their dog's rude behavior, I will. I'll body block the other dog and then move my dogs away if the dog persists. The kind of places we go to are large multi-acre open space regional parks, so there's plenty of room to avoid dogs whose play style I don't like, or that might trigger behavior in my own dogs that I don't like. Fortunately, my dogs are fairly tolerant of that kind of thing because they've both been going to off leash parks regularly from a young age - my yard is so tiny that we really have to take them somewhere for play and exercise so they're well socialized to an environment like that, but they do have their limits and I always try to step in well before they reach that point. 

I do (gently) try to educate the owner, not "hey stupid, your dog is being a butthead and he's going to get his ass kicked if he keeps trying to hump other dogs", I'll tell them that they shouldn't allow their dog to do that because not all dogs will take kindly to it, and if he tries it with the wrong dog, it could provoke a fight.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

sashadog said:


> If dogs won't leave my dominant girls alone, I leave. It's not worth the stress of fighting with the owner of the other dog. She will make a huge scene and although I know she never hurts the other dog, I worry about the other dogs attacking her. Plus, stupid owners annoy me so I avoid them like the plague. Even the more dog-saavy owners at my local dog park drive me nuts because they like to lecture me about all the other dogs. I nicely say, "I know, I see it too" and leave. Apparently only more tolerant people than me frequent dog parks


I never go to the parks at home... but me thinks my dogs don't really care for all the FJ Cruiser and Marriott Residence Inn time they are logging lol.

One woman actually stopped me from letting my male respond to her male... which was appreciated. But the wolf hybrid "group" were making comments between themselves that were annoying. Stuff like "Oh you just shut down a german shepherd" when a ~3-4 month old puppy (there were about 4 there) ran into my dog while he was focused on me about to throw a ball, and he spun around and growled before he realized it was just a puppy, and went back to staring at the ball in my hand.


----------



## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

In doubt, I think I'd wait until a quiet time of the day when the park wasn't busy.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> Generally, I let it play it out as long as it doesn't get too heated. I find that dogs respect boundaries better when the other dog sets them so I let my dogs give fair and appropriate corrections with fosters. I also know my dogs thresholds and will stop it if I think _my_ dog will take it too far. I'd probably feel out the other owner to see if they'd be receptive to it before letting it get to that point. If I think they'd freak out, I'd just keep my dog away from the others. It's mostly the reason I stopped going to dog parks. Raven was actually the dog that was being bullied and wouldn't stop it, so I stopped going because I spent the entire time body blocking. Now, she can be a bully with fosters.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know they are hybrids?


They were all from successive litters, and wolf hybrids have a very distinct look and demeanor about them. They are aloof + skittish.. not fearful per se, but you can feel the wild in them. They are not domesticated fully. Also, I listened to their convo lol. I've been around wolf hybrids before. They are easy to pick out when you know how they look

I've used my male to help give puppies good experiences with a foreign adult dog countless times. He is always fair, firm, and gentle. He has not yet taken it too far. My females will purely out of excitement. My male is ideal because he's big and dominate, but out of my three dogs he is my least concern. When my younger female is acting the fool in public, I often drop his leash without worry. Everyone assumes my male is the one to be scared of lol.

Side note, on the elevator ride up to the fifth floor, the other guy in the elevator asked if my male was DDR  Its nice to run into people who have a clue what they are talking about.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> If the other owner won't intervene to stop their dog's rude behavior, I will. I'll body block the other dog and then move my dogs away if the dog persists. The kind of places we go to are large multi-acre open space regional parks, so there's plenty of room to avoid dogs whose play style I don't like, or that might trigger behavior in my own dogs that I don't like. Fortunately, my dogs are fairly tolerant of that kind of thing because they've both been going to off leash parks regularly from a young age - my yard is so tiny that we really have to take them somewhere for play and exercise so they're well socialized to an environment like that, but they do have their limits and I always try to step in well before they reach that point.
> 
> I do (gently) try to educate the owner, not "hey stupid, your dog is being a butthead and he's going to get his ass kicked if he keeps trying to hump other dogs", I'll tell them that they shouldn't allow their dog to do that because not all dogs will take kindly to it, and if he tries it with the wrong dog, it could provoke a fight.


One dog kept trying to hump my female (no where near in season either). That was my highest point of concern of the day. She is my fighter. She will fight at the drop of a hat if given a reason. My other two dogs avoid fights. She's kinda tiny at ~63lbs... but she is a scrapper... she dominates the neighborhood 120lb cane corso, dominates her own mother who is ~76 lbs, and is in general, a little b**ch in the derogatory meaning


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> So.. I'm in Orlando for a week for work and hit a dog park this afternoon to let the two dogs I have with me run it out for a bit. Well, I avoid dog parks, but foreign town and all... gotta burn off some energy. The normal types are there. My male is very dominant. A few dogs kept trying to challenge him, and he always shuts them down. I always intervene in public because I know people don't want to see that and the sight of a big GSD being "aggressive" isn't good for anyone, but on the flip side, what can you do when someone elses dog keeps trying to jump on, challenge, etc your dog? He's gonna respond the way he was designed to. If I didn't intervene he'd just do his thing and the dog would be put in his place and the thing would be over with. But, because I keep stopping it, the other dog doesn't get the hint (or the owner), and the situation repeats the whole time I'm there. So what does everyone do to handle this?
> 
> Side note... there were like... 8 wolf hybrids at this park.. out of maybe 15 dogs. I found that really odd. And so far my exposure to hybrids has been that they are highly independent (read disobedient), unruly, skittish, weave nerved and quick to get violent


I could answer this from so many perspectives!

You readily admit your dog is "very" dominant. That makes me wonder why you go to a dog park at all? I mean, you know that's a recipe for problems, right? I understand you're out of town and needing an outlet, but knowing this, it makes the dog park choice seem to be a very poor one. What do you really expect of other dogs, when presented with a very dominant dog? Those dogs are supposed to behave and respect your dog(s) and back off or ???

Those other dogs may be dominant as well... so your dog's dominance is more respectable than theirs? 

What's this stuff with you could let him "do his thing and put the other dogs in their place." Really? So now you're the dog park police with your "very" dominant dog?

I go to the dog park fairly often. I have plenty of complaints about the owners I've come across. 

What do I do to handle it? For one, my dog is not DA in the slightest. *If he was, he wouldn't go to the dog park.* *Period*. For two, if another dog is overly aggressive, I'm right there and blasting a NO in his face, or doing a little sideways hip/knee knock. No one's dog is beating the **** out of my dog. If the owner isn't there to deal with it, or is too stupid/distracted or whatever, to deal with it, I certainly will. I will risk a bite if I must and I have. I am not shy and am certainly not the least bit concerned with an owner's feelings when their dog is overly aggressive. That's likely why I have few dogpark friends. I don't care. Those "very" dominant dogs are exactly the ones I dread in the park.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

1 >>>>> is it a good idea to have a dominant in a dog park???

2 >>>>> you intervene when in public. what do you do
when you're not in the public eye???

3 >>>>> you're in a dog park. if things aren't right LEAVE.



hunterisgreat said:


> The normal types are there.
> 
> 1 >>>>> My male is very dominant.<<<<<
> 
> ...


----------



## MrsDraper (Nov 14, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> So.. I'm in Orlando for a week for work and hit a dog park this afternoon to let the two dogs I have with me run it out for a bit. Well, I avoid dog parks, but foreign town and all... gotta burn off some energy. The normal types are there. My male is very dominant. A few dogs kept trying to challenge him, and he always shuts them down. I always intervene in public because I know people don't want to see that and the sight of a big GSD being "aggressive" isn't good for anyone, but on the flip side, what can you do when someone elses dog keeps trying to jump on, challenge, etc your dog? He's gonna respond the way he was designed to. If I didn't intervene he'd just do his thing and the dog would be put in his place and the thing would be over with. But, because I keep stopping it, the other dog doesn't get the hint (or the owner), and the situation repeats the whole time I'm there. So what does everyone do to handle this?
> 
> Side note... there were like... 8 wolf hybrids at this park.. out of maybe 15 dogs. I found that really odd. And so far my exposure to hybrids has been that they are highly independent (read disobedient), unruly, skittish, weave nerved and quick to get violent


From how you described your dog he sounds like he acts like my pup. He is dominant but NOT aggressive. My Motard is very dominant and basically walks around like he is too cool for school. He doesn't pay other dogs any mind unless they are playing together or try to assert their dominance towards him. Motard is the most friendly dog ever until that moment that another dog snaps at him, then its like he is another dog. He often put other dogs in their 'place.' My views on this is as long as my dog didn't start it and it doesn't get out of hand, I allow it.
I should also mention that my dog stops the moment that I yell for him.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

chelle said:


> I could answer this from so many perspectives!
> 
> You readily admit your dog is "very" dominant. That makes me wonder why you go to a dog park at all? I mean, you know that's a recipe for problems, right? I understand you're out of town and needing an outlet, but knowing this, it makes the dog park choice seem to be a very poor one. What do you really expect of other dogs, when presented with a very dominant dog? Those dogs are supposed to behave and respect your dog(s) and back off or ???
> 
> ...


Two dogs, particularly two males, will decide who's the more dominate one on their own without intervention and without blood the vast majority of the time. My dog isn't aggressive. He minds his own business... doesn't really even care to meet other dogs. When a dog runs up on him, he's happy to let the other one smell his rump. When the dog tries to mount him, he will shut that down rather quickly. There is a difference between dominate aggressive and dominate. I get the feeling you don't have a really good understanding of dog behavior. Dominate aggressive, in my opinion, is a less confident dog trying to posture in order to gain rank in the pecking order. Dominate aggressive dogs will go seek out trouble. A dominate dog won't go around bullying everyone. He will quickly establish him/her self but largely stay out of the mix.

By let him do his thing, I mean, they'd posture for a few seconds, figure out who's who, and go about their way. Its akin to every two guys try to shake hands, you go and karate chop their hands apart... when you turn your back they are going to meet and size each other up anyway...

FYI, I've had no less than 10 compliments in 3 days while in Orlando about how well behaved my dogs are, so don't paint a picture that my dogs are poorly behaved... and I'm allowed to stay in a non-pet friendly hotel because of their good behaviour


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> 1 >>>>> is it a good idea to have a dominant in a dog park???
> 
> 2 >>>>> you intervene when in public. what do you do
> when you're not in the public eye???
> ...


There is always a "most dominate dog" at every park, whenever there is more than one dog there. You'd be surprised how fast last hour's really submissive dog becomes this hours dominate a-hole.

In private I explain to the other person what will happen, and that I'll gladly intervene if it is warranted, but its best to let the dogs establish their relationship without humans mucking around in it. This has worked with other dominate males, females, puppies, geriatrics, etc.

They weren't bad enough to leave. Just annoying


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I'll add that in four years of having my male, and having him in public and at work with me an average of 5-6 days a week, and he is well known at virtually every restaurant and pub with a patio, and being at every major cultural or pet event in the area, I've never once had a dog fight, never once had my male bite a dog, never once had a showing of teeth, never once had any incident... So I believe I have a pretty good read on him.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> Two dogs, particularly two males, will decide who's the more dominate one on their own without intervention and without *blood the vast majority of the time*. My dog isn't aggressive. He minds his own business... *doesn't really even care to meet other dogs*. When a dog runs up on him, he's happy to let the other one smell his rump. When the dog tries to mount him, he will shut that down rather quickly. There is a difference between dominate aggressive and dominate. *I get the feeling you don't have a really good understanding of dog behavior.* Dominate aggressive, in my opinion, is a less confident dog trying to posture in order to gain rank in the pecking order. Dominate aggressive dogs will go seek out trouble. A dominate dog won't go around bullying everyone. He will quickly establish him/her self *but largely stay out of the mix.*
> 
> By let him do his thing, I mean, they'd posture for a few seconds, figure out who's who, and go about their way. Its akin to every two guys try to shake hands, you go and karate chop their hands apart... when you turn your back they are going to meet and size each other up anyway...
> 
> FYI, I've had no less than 10 compliments in 3 days while in Orlando about how well behaved my dogs are, so don't paint a picture that my dogs are poorly behaved... and I'm allowed to stay in a non-pet friendly hotel because of their good behaviour


Not to be the spelling cop, but you might want to learn to spell dominance before claiming so much knowledge of it?

I won't claim to be an expert on dog behavior. I don't disagree on what you've said in regard to dominant aggressive vs dominant. Where I draw the line with you is that it would seem you're bringing a dog into a dog park that doesn't seem to belong there. By your own admissions, bolded above, he has little to no interest in meeting other dogs and he "largely stays out of the mix." And to not draw blood the "vast" majority of the time isn't good enough for me.

I'm not debating your dogs are wonderful dogs. Simply that they may not be good dog park candidates.


----------



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Ozzy isn't dominant (which I'm glad for, because with as small as he is, if he were dominant, that could equal a giant vet bill or death for him), but there was this fugly little pug thing that would NOT leave him alone one time. He would grab Ozzy's life jacket and try to rip him around until I could get the stupid thing off. I tried moving farther and farther away, but the stupid thing kept following. Eventually I grabbed the thing by its scruff (no collar), and RIPPED it off of Ozzy and yelled, "Whose dog is this!?" I kicked some gravel at it and the owners got mad at me. I told them to control their **** dog or don't bring it to the park before going to the other side.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

chelle said:


> Not to be the spelling cop, but you might want to learn to spell dominance before claiming so much knowledge of it?
> 
> I won't claim to be an expert on dog behavior. I don't disagree on what you've said in regard to dominant aggressive vs dominant. Where I draw the line with you is that it would seem you're bringing a dog into a dog park that doesn't seem to belong there. By your own admissions, bolded above, he has little to no interest in meeting other dogs and he "largely stays out of the mix." And to not draw blood the "vast" majority of the time isn't good enough for me.
> 
> I'm not debating your dogs are wonderful dogs. Simply that they may not be good dog park candidates.


I'll gladly admit I rely whole heartedly on my spellchecker 

I was at the park to exercise my dogs. My male has never drawn blood on another dog. He has postured in such a way as to, I'm sure, given great concern to the owner... but it was posturing. Dogs are good at making a squabble sound much worse than it is. When two dogs are getting into it silently, thats a "must intervene" scenario, as those two are going to kill one or the other. I've dealt with many dog fights before.. real dog fights. Had one a week ago between my two females. Real dog fights are very bloody. Posturing looks scary but almost never draws blood or if it does, its just a scratch. Same reason when two male lions fight for control of a pride, they don't use their claws. Its a test of each other, not an intent to do harm.

The reality is that the only place to go through a ball for my dog off leash is a dog park. I shouldn't be disallowed to go to a dog park just because my dogs don't want to play with other dogs. They aren't fighting other dogs, or even paying attention to them. They only want to interact with me. Which is one of many reasons why I like GSDs


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> Ozzy isn't dominant (which I'm glad for, because with as small as he is, if he were dominant, that could equal a giant vet bill or death for him), but there was this fugly little pug thing that would NOT leave him alone one time. He would grab Ozzy's life jacket and try to rip him around until I could get the stupid thing off. I tried moving farther and farther away, but the stupid thing kept following. Eventually I grabbed the thing by its scruff (no collar), and RIPPED it off of Ozzy and yelled, "Whose dog is this!?" I kicked some gravel at it and the owners got mad at me. I told them to control their **** dog or don't bring it to the park before going to the other side.


I saw a 9 week old wolf hybrid *female* pup, shutdown a ~4-5 month old male hybrid pup of the same parents today... dominance is like martial arts.. if you have to resort to muscle to force it, you're doing it wrong and your technique is off. A highly dominate chiuhauaha can put a GSD in his place without any sort of touching. Its a state of mind, not a size of dog. Size of dog is only a supplement to a given dog's confidence level.


----------



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

hunterisgreat said:


> I saw a 9 week old wolf hybrid *female* pup, shutdown a ~4-5 month old male hybrid pup of the same parents today... dominance is like martial arts.. if you have to resort to muscle to force it, you're doing it wrong and your technique is off. A highly dominate chiuhauaha can put a GSD in his place without any sort of touching. Its a state of mind, not a size of dog. Size of dog is only a supplement to a given dog's confidence level.


If Ozzy was a dominant dog, then tried to dominate a much larger dominant dog, a fight would inevitably break out. In a fight between a Pom and a GSD (or husky, or boxer, or lab), who do you think would win? I'd rather Ozzy be submissive to other dogs than try to be dominant. 
He isn't submissive - he's aloof to other dogs when I'm playing fetch with him. He wants his ball, whether Cujo is on the other side of the park, or a bitch in heat is nearby. He just wants his ball. When he goes out to play with other dogs, it's mostly like watching kids play tag.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

My male is a VERY dominant type (altho GREAT with females usually and always with small puppies) and I have never (except twice as a sub adult) go to dog parks!

Too much risk!


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> If Ozzy was a dominant dog, then tried to dominate a much larger dominant dog, a fight would inevitably break out. In a fight between a Pom and a GSD (or husky, or boxer, or lab), who do you think would win? I'd rather Ozzy be submissive to other dogs than try to be dominant.
> He isn't submissive - he's aloof to other dogs when I'm playing fetch with him. He wants his ball, whether Cujo is on the other side of the park, or a bitch in heat is nearby. He just wants his ball. When he goes out to play with other dogs, it's mostly like watching kids play tag.


Well the thing is, two males will decide who's boss without any harm, even when drastically different sizes. That being said, a nip from a GSD to a Pom might be a serious injury... however, usually, when the natural dominance of one is higher enough than the other, a fight never breaks out... just a bunch of posturing like two guys at a bar talking smack. The only time fights break out is when its very close and they can't figure out who's the more dominate one. Then they go to blows.

Bitches fight because the wind blows in the wrong direction


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> I saw a 9 week old wolf hybrid *female* pup, shutdown a ~4-5 month old male hybrid pup of the same parents today... dominance is like martial arts.. *if you have to resort to muscle to force it, you're doing it wrong and your technique is off*. *A highly dominate chiuhauaha can put a GSD in his place without any sort of touching*. Its a state of mind, not a size of dog. Size of dog is only a supplement to a given dog's confidence level.


 
Although, the muscle (skill!) can come in VERY handy when stuff hits the fan!

Unless the Chi happens to try to be "dominate" to the wrong GSD -- then he/she is no longer "dominant" just is "LUNCH"! Funny to watch unless you are the Chi (or his/her owner!). Size helps!


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

codmaster said:


> My male is a VERY dominant type (altho GREAT with females usually and always with small puppies) and I have never (except twice as a sub adult) go to dog parks!
> 
> Too much risk!


Both females love playing with other dogs. Both have been in dog fights. Twice have fought each other, in "for real" fights. I quit going to parks because of my female. She has low tolerance of a dog being aggressive towards her. Her response to dog aggression is "yeah? bet I can kill you first".


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Although, the muscle (skill!) can come in VERY handy when stuff hits the fan!
> 
> Unless the Chi happens to try to be "dominate" to the wrong GSD -- then he/she is no longer "dominant" just is "LUNCH"! Funny to watch unless you are the Chi (or his/her owner!). Size helps!


it definitely helps. But if it has come to violence then he didn't proof his dominance in the first place... the other dog wasn't convinced that chi was as bad arse as he said he was. The other dog simply called his bluff

A great analogy is jijutisu for anyone that has studied it. A really muscular guy can supplement poor technique with brute force and get the job done just the same. I small guy has to have perfect technique, or he will just get beaten. Take a small guy with perfect technique and match him with a drastically larger guy without sound technique, and the larger guy will lose. Any guy can look back and think about how many aggressive men he's met that he wasn't really scared of or didn't "buy" they were so scary. And there are at least a few, I'll bet, that every man has met that were otherwise un-intimidating that gave the thought "that guy... he just isn't the one to F with". Thats the guy that sold you on his dominance.


----------



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

hunterisgreat said:


> it definitely helps. But if it has come to violence then he didn't proof his dominance in the first place... the other dog wasn't convinced that chi was as bad arse as he said he was.
> 
> A great analogy is jijutisu for anyone that has studied it. A really muscular guy can supplement poor technique with brute force and get the job done just the same. I small guy has to have perfect technique, or he will just get beaten. Take a small guy with perfect technique and match him with a drastically larger guy without sound technique, and the larger guy will lose. Any guy can look back and think about how many aggressive men he's met that he wasn't really scared of or didn't "buy" they were so scary. And there are at least a few, I'll bet, that every man has met that were otherwise un-intimidating that gave the thought "that guy... he just isn't the one to F with". Thats the guy that sold you on his dominance.


That's based on fighting styles.... UFC? 
Are you suggesting smaller dominant dogs should learn proper fighting techniques to be able to effectively dominate a larger dog?


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> That's based on fighting styles.... UFC?
> Are you suggesting smaller dominant dogs should learn proper fighting techniques to be able to effectively dominate a larger dog?


No, simply that its a state of mind. When dogs get in a fight, obviously physical characteristics are going to decide the outcome. Pre-fight, a small dog can dominate a much larger one. Domination isn't about violence or forcing another dog to submit. When you see two dogs stand tall at each other and flag their tails, thats simply a posturing technique. Small dogs can do it to, and can convence a bigger dog they are scarier. Are they really scarier, or would they actually win a fight? Certainly no.. but that doesn't matter. My mom's miniature schnauzer does it to her great dane all the time.


----------



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

hunterisgreat said:


> My mom's miniature schnauzer does it to her great dane all the time.


Okay, so is the Great Dane also a dominant dog? 

I know very well that smaller dogs can dominate larger dogs. But can a small, dominant dog dominate a large, equally dominant dog without a fight? My guess would be no.


----------



## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> Side note... there were like... 8 wolf hybrids at this park.. out of maybe 15 dogs. I found that really odd. And so far my exposure to hybrids has been that they are highly independent (read disobedient), unruly, skittish, weave nerved and quick to get violent


Alice had an experience with these kind of "dogs" when she was about five months old. A rescue group brought their "husky mixes" to the dog park. There were seven 80+ pound dogs in harnesses (no collars) for two humans. The rules state two dogs per human. 
What I saw with these "dogs" is dangerous predatory behavior. They treated Alice (not an adult but not a puppy either) as an intruder to their territory and swarmed in like a pack---well not "like a pack" THEY were a pack and the dog park was their territory. They blew off a human man claiming his space and pup (Gar...I was in the small dog side with Zoey) like he was a tree or something. Scary, no regard for any kind of human authority. We called the city on the rescue group.
These are NOT dog park dogs. IMHO, they aren't pets either especially in a city the size of San Jose CA.

I occassionally take Alice to a dog park. Usually when I enter the "gatebox" for lack of better term; I take her leash off then go through the gate first. If there are dogs standing blocking the path of entry, I literally don't look at them and walk through them, making them move for me. I don't walk around dogs. Usually Alice carries herself pretty well/confident so usually a look will stop most dogs in their tracks for their challenging shenanigans. If a dog runs up and starts barking in her face, or try to mount her, I will say in a very loud voice, "SHE'LL TELL YOU NO BUDDY!" That's for the owner's benefit; not the dog's; they couldn't care less what you say to them in English. I defintely have the "manage your dog or I will attitude" I have said more than once when a dog attempts to bite/nip the neck or pin a dog on entry....NO, that's NOT how dog's say "hi" they sniff butts....THAT'S dominance aggression. 
But, I do HATE people that bring food into a dog park. Makes me crazy and I will leave everytime I see treats handed out, heck, I've seen dog's fight over a rock, what do you think food entered into the equation does?
I have left other times as well when some "dumas" brought her little Cotons in the large dogs side when there were several huskies and four greyhounds. Um, hello? Your dogs sound and look like rabbits?......

Once, Alice put holes in a guys dog but she was in a down waiting for the ball to be thrown and he threw his frisbee and the dog ran over her and I felt awful. That wasn't a correction on her part; more like being startled. I gave the guy my information in case he needed to get vetted; but he never called or e-mailed. She's usually pretty tolerant of most dogs for the most part and I've really worked hard to not put any value on balls at the dog park. Less value, less chance of resource guarding...and let's face it....female GSDs they probably are the reason for the name used by breeders for the female dog...
Oh, I also avoid weekends and peak hours....less amatuer hour antics. Sometimes I go without my dogs, just to watch other dog's behavior and laugh at the humans.


----------



## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Hunterisgreat:



> Bitches fight because the wind blows in the wrong direction


This almost made me fall out of my chair laughing so hard.
Young males....Um...I usually compare it to two boys peeing on an electric fence. Usually you can clap your hands or say one of their names or some other sound diversion and break the eye contact for a split second and the chesty behavior ends. (well, unless ya got a Bull Terrier or Alapaha BlueBlood going on---then you need a cast iron skillet.)


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Just curious but what were the dogs doing when you intervened? I'm wondering how much of it is truly "dominance" and how much might just be the other dogs being "rude"?

Also, what behaviors does your dog have that classify him as very dominant?


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I also have a dog-dominant male that I bring to dog parks sometimes. Our dog parks are several acres large, so if two dogs don't get along it's easy to get away while still enjoying the park. When another dog is challenging or being rude to mine, the other owner almost always identifies his dog as fault and leashes up his dog. We usually both leash up our dogs and go separate directions. This happened recently when an Akita-mix tried mounting and humping him. 

I'm also proactive about his dominance and I don't let him play with unfamiliar dogs, because when they spend too much time with each other they begin sorting out pack order. What usually happens is when we are walking the trails we come across a dog and they greet each other and then we all keep moving. There isn't enough time for the dogs to determine who is higher up in the pack.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> Okay, so is the Great Dane also a dominant dog?
> 
> I know very well that smaller dogs can dominate larger dogs. But can a small, dominant dog dominate a large, equally dominant dog without a fight? My guess would be no.


He is dominant but not heavily... He is a little dominate aggressive. Him and my male butt heads. He has just accepted his place beneath the schnauzer


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> One dog kept trying to hump my female (no where near in season either). That was my highest point of concern of the day. *She is my fighter.* *She will fight at the drop of a hat* if given a reason. My other two dogs avoid fights. She's kinda tiny at ~63lbs... but she is a scrapper... she dominates the neighborhood 120lb cane corso, dominates her own mother who is ~76 lbs, and is in general, *a little b**ch in the derogatory meaning*


And you feel taking her into a dog park is a responsible choice? I cannot stand humpers, but sounds like this one will "go off" for almost any reason.



hunterisgreat said:


> I never go to the parks at home... but me thinks my dogs don't really care for all the FJ Cruiser and Marriott Residence Inn time they are logging lol.


So you won't go at home, but traveling, it is ok? I can't blame them for not being too keen on Marriott time, but that's not anyone's fault but yours for having them there.



hunterisgreat said:


> I was at the park to exercise my dogs....
> The reality is that the only place to go through a ball for my dog off leash is a dog park. I shouldn't be disallowed to go to a dog park just because my dogs don't want to play with other dogs. They aren't fighting other dogs, or even paying attention to them. They only want to interact with me. Which is one of many reasons why I like GSDs


This contradicts what you said earlier - that there were some interactions with other dogs. And the reality is it is not the only place. There are ball fields and such. Maybe not easily found, especially when traveling, but they exist.

I love the dog park visitor's attitude that says hey! I have a "right" to be here! My dog doesn't like other dogs, or want to play with them, but hey it's my right. No one said you were "disallowed" but even you admit your female is a real "scrapper" and will "fight at the drop of a hat." A dog park is... a dog park. Dogs will be there. They will want to meet, greet, play. It's what they do. There will be bad, neglectful or outright ignorant owners. That's the nature of the thing. If it's a big enough park, sure, you can create distance and get away from the others, but there's going to be interaction at some point.



hunterisgreat said:


> I quit going to parks because of my female. She has low tolerance of a dog being aggressive towards her. Her response to dog aggression is "yeah? bet I can kill you first".


Even you admit she's not dog park material! 



CarrieJ said:


> Oh, I also avoid weekends and peak hours....less amatuer hour antics.


I tried this approach, too, but it backfired. I found the owners with aggressive dogs aim for the offpeak times. 


I need to concede in one of my first posts, I was unclear and mixed up some terminology. So I'll just summarize it this way...

If a dog is:
--very dominant or
--dog aggressive or, Lord forbid,
--very dominant and dog aggressive...

.... don't take the dog to the dog park. Please.


----------



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I totally understand the reason you went to the dogs park.

I have to admit that I am scared to take either one of my dogs to a dog park. There are too many variables there and too many things that could happen. I do however take them to areas that I feel safe and there are no other dogs present. Living where I do, the military has acres of land they allow civilians to use. There are several spots where we can pull over and take the dogs out to sniff and run. If I go to one area and see other dogs, I move on. I want them to have off leash time, and I simply am not willing to take the risk of any fight happening. That is my biggest fear - a dog fight and not being able to break it up, and my dogs causing injury to another. So I avoid the scenario at all costs.


----------



## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

9 times out of ten if you actually look at the type of dog at a dog park that is being dominant with other dogs it's out of a lack of leadership in it's home.
Seriously, when you see a Lab or (yes, I've seen it) a Doodle trying to hump a bordercollie or GSD....you are going to see a good "knock it off" that isn't aggression. That's a NO. No means No. 
To stand next to a dog that's humping another dog and say "No Humping" in a sing song voice is giving the dog positive reinforcement for dominant pack sorting behavior.
You (that's a general statement not directed to anyone in particular) come across as a dog with no skills barking at the animation of two other dogs engaging.
Young dogs tend to explode into their "nos" as they don't have the confidence to repel another dog. It's generally bluster but gets their point across. Again, most of the time it's not aggression.
Should the dog doing the humping not walk away "Oh, got the point" but challenge back...that dog is the one to watch for dominance aggession.

Getting back to the point of the original post (anyone remember that?) By Hunterisgreat's statement there were a disportionate amount of wolf hybrids in the park. He needed to blow off some of his dog's steam; understandable. Hybrids are actutely aware of pack status and are territorial. The second that Hunterisgreat walked into that park I bet he had at least 4 of the 8 hybrids challenging his dogs as newcomers. (I bet a doughnut and a donation to the USO Wishlist project)
I personally would have watched the pack from the outside, and made my decision to enter from outside the fence based on the pack's behavior/and the humans' behavior.
If I see a muzzled dog at the dog park, still pinning a dog and the owner of said dog yelling and flailing and basically acting like a yearling dog....I don't go in. 
Lately we have been going to unfenced parks, (informal dog parks) because usually the idiots who don't train their dogs or enforce commands don't go there. Recall is a beautiful thing. Or, I do long leash work there and still a good time is had.
But, GSDs still need that all out RUN, tongues hanging out of the side of the mouth lolling, panting RUN. A little walk around (a mile or less) a neighborhood isn't going to do it. Most GSDs couldn't care less about other dogs at a dog park, they focus on their owners and the ball. As long as they aren't seeking out other dogs to manage and control and boss around....they still should be able to go and have a good RUN.
That's excercising the dog.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with a dog telling another dog "stop doing that" dogs do that by snapping, growling, showing teeth. If the behavior of the other dog stops he has good social skills. If the growling dog stops, so does he. If either continue, then that is an unsafe dog to have at a dog park. My male will not get in a dog fight. He will make it very clear when he has had enough or doesn't want another dog near him. My female will do the same, but if pressed will fight. Haven't had her fight any dog other than my other female, and a neighbors corso.. And the corso was not a real fight but could have become one


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Zisso said:


> That is my biggest fear - a dog fight and not being able to break it up, and my dogs causing injury to another. So I avoid the scenario at all costs.


Mine too. We joined a hiking group so that we can have off leash time together. One that I drove to this morning, paid a toll to get there and ended up having to turn around and come home after 15 min because a lab was starting fights. My two won't back down and back each other up. The lab was got in 3 dogs' faces and challenged them within 15 min but I was the one who went home because it's not worth it to me. It's also why I don't go to dog parks any more. I use the local football field if I can (completely fenced) or if I _really_ need to go to the dog park, it's before 7am when no one is there. 

I don't think Hunter is at fault here. His dogs need exercise and are under his control. Other owner's don't get a pass for allowing inappropriate behavior just because Hunter's dogs won't back down. If the other dogs were behaving, it wouldn't matter if his dog is dominant or if she would fight at the drop of a hat, as long as he can control them. A dog park is not supposed to be a doggie free for all social hour.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

chelle said:


> And you feel taking her into a dog park is a responsible choice? I cannot stand humpers, but sounds like this one will "go off" for almost any reason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And yet, I've never had a dog fight. So why can't I go to parks I pay taxes to support? I avoid them because of the obnoxious other dogs. If I had a nickel for everytime someone's water dog has body checked me and made it a miserable ride home id buy my own park


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Saying because my dog would fight means I shouldn't go to a park is like saying I shouldn't go to a bar because if an obnoxious drunk keeps slapping me eventually I will lay him out. Who should really not be at the bar?


----------



## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> And yet, I've never had a dog fight. So why can't I go to parks I pay taxes to support? I avoid them because of the obnoxious other dogs. If I had a nickel for everytime someone's water dog has body checked me and made it a miserable ride home id buy my own park


chelle is just egging you on. If this were a dog park she'd be banned!


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> And yet, I've never had a dog fight. So why can't I go to parks I pay taxes to support? I avoid them because of the obnoxious other dogs....


 Now you say you avoid them due to the *other *obnoxious dogs, but you yourself said earlier "I quit going to parks because of my female. She has low tolerance of a dog being aggressive towards her."

So you saw a need to not go anymore. Great. I wish more people would make those decisions when they're for the greater good of the park patrons, human and dog.

From the outside looking in, if it had been posted by some random Joe Blow that he "went to the dog park with his very dominant male and bitch that would fight at the drop of the hat," it would've gone differently. Joe Blow Poster would've probably had his post ripped to shreds.

I'm not calling you a bad owner or your dogs bad by any means whatsoever. Just struck me the wrong way, what can I say.



TechieDog said:


> chelle is just egging you on. If this were a dog park she'd be banned!


Ok. Thanks for your contribution. :rolleyes2: Not sure how this became about me. Just out of curiosity, why would I be banned? :shrug:


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

chelle said:


> Now you say you avoid them due to the *other *obnoxious dogs, but you yourself said earlier "I quit going to parks because of my female. She has low tolerance of a dog being aggressive towards her."
> 
> So you saw a need to not go anymore. Great. I wish more people would make those decisions when they're for the greater good of the park patrons, human and dog.
> 
> ...


I am guessing that Chelle has just had bad experiences at a dog park or witnessed a good amount. Most of them likely having to do with an owner of a dominant dog being aggressive. I myself have had a few not so nice experiences. 

My Titan is a rather submissive dog in public in most cases. He doesn't care about being the top, there has only been one time he has shown dominance to another dog and that was in our own home when this dog belonged to a guest and this dog tried to assert dominance in his own home. Everyone knows that's no bueno with any dog. 

Anywho, the point I'm trying to make is that I don't think Chelle is attacking hunterisgreat at all. I think she was expressing her hatred for obnoxious owners at a dog park taking an obviously dominant aggressive dog to a park and doing nothing about it. Not entirely sure she'd be banned from said dog park though, lol. 

When it comes to my pup I am VERY active in assuring his safety at a dog park and I don't care who's owner I offend doing it. I think that text just doesn't allow for tone and things may have gotten misconstrued.


----------



## Sambuca (Mar 13, 2010)

This is exactly why I avoid the dog park. My dog is well socialized and gets along with almost all dogs. But all it takes is a dominant dog or one that will "fight at the drop of a hat" that ruins it for me, or rather my dog. 

When you bring a dominant dog or one that is prone to fighting and mix it with 12 or so other dogs it's a recipe for disaster. 

Thanks to the OP for reminding me why I like to avoid leash free parks!


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think it's fine to bring a dominant dog to a dog park if they are confident and don't feel the need to challenge other dogs or pick fights. It's the insecure dominant dogs that are more of a problem, and I think owners can manage them by not allowing them to interact with a dog long enough for them to start establishing pack order.


----------



## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

chelle said:


> I could answer this from so many perspectives!
> 
> You readily admit your dog is "very" dominant. That makes me wonder why you go to a dog park at all? I mean, you know that's a recipe for problems, right? I understand you're out of town and needing an outlet, but knowing this, it makes the dog park choice seem to be a very poor one. What do you really expect of other dogs, when presented with a very dominant dog? Those dogs are supposed to behave and respect your dog(s) and back off or ???
> 
> ...


I wish every owner who visits the dog park was as thoughtful and considerate. I stopped taking my pup because at 6-7 months, he was showing some dominate behaviors. His behavior was only play, but it was distressing to very shy dogs and could have become a problem with overly dominate dogs.

I would like to also speak to owners who bring cringing, shaking, cowering dogs into dog parks. Shame on them! Dog parks are no more for these dogs than for aggressive dogs. Shy dogs have a bulls eye painted on them as far as other more dominant dogs are concerned. It won't help to socialize a shy dog by allowing the park bullies to intimidate it.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

wyoung2153 said:


> I am guessing that Chelle has just had bad experiences at a dog park or witnessed a good amount....


And your guess would be right.  It's not just dominant dog and/or DA stuff, it's all kind of dog - and owner - stuff. It's a shame, it really is.



Marnie said:


> I wish every owner who visits the dog park was as thoughtful and considerate. I stopped taking my pup because at 6-7 months, he was showing some dominate behaviors. His behavior was only play, but it was distressing to very shy dogs and could have become a problem with overly dominate dogs.
> 
> *I would like to also speak to owners who bring cringing, shaking, cowering dogs into dog parks.* Shame on them! Dog parks are no more for these dogs than for aggressive dogs. Shy dogs have a bulls eye painted on them as far as other more dominant dogs are concerned. It won't help to socialize a shy dog by allowing the park bullies to intimidate it.


I am also amazed at people who bring these dogs. I think they mean well. I think they believe (and have had them tell me!) that they just so want their baby to "play" and "have fun." 

~

Still wondering why I'd be banned from the park, but I guess I won't be getting that answer. 

My personal dog park philosophy is that you are always in control and view of your dog, that you immediately stop any bad behavior on the part of your dog, you protect your dog when necessary and you follow all park rules. You leave even if you just got there if you sense an issue could arise with another dog. 

I do not sit at the picnic table with the other bs'ers. I do not like it when people bring their 5 lb dogs in the large dog side. (risky!) I want to kick owners that bring their _little _puppies to the dog park. It aggravates me no end when aggressive dogs are allowed to terrorize the other dogs, while the sitters continue to sit. I do not like the humping dogs and their giggling owners (oh he's horny!) make me want to stick hot pokers in my eyes. I despise the idiot parents who bring two year old human children into the large dog side - or any side for that matter. I do not enjoy the dog park dog experts with their unsolicited (and usually ridiculous) advice. So I guess I don't like a lot of things.... 

Ban me.


----------



## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

LOL, I was just drawing a parallel because of the aggressive way you were going at Hunter who btw seems to be a pretty responsible dog owner.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

TechieDog said:


> LOL, I was just drawing a parallel because of the aggressive way you were going at Hunter who btw seems to be a pretty responsible dog owner.


I was only going off his post, as I don't recall seeing any of his posts to know what kind of owner he is or isn't. 

I don't think I was being aggressive. It felt like he kept skirting and dancing around. Also felt like he got a real free pass because he has alphabet soup in his siggy and is not a newbie here. 

I'll just bow out, but I do stand by my former statement:

_From the outside looking in, if it had been posted by some random Joe Blow that he "went to the dog park with his very dominant male and bitch that would fight at the drop of the hat," it would've gone differently. Joe Blow Poster would've probably had his post ripped to shreds._

G'day, all! I'm getting off work a half day early. I think we'll go to the dog park! :wild:


----------



## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

GSD + dog park = disaster


----------



## WendyDsMom (Nov 18, 2011)

I have taken my dogs to dog parks since arriving here in MD - since 1993. I have only had a problem with another dog and dominance once with my GSD Kayla. 

He kept trying to put his head and shoulders over her (she wasn't a tall dog, he was) and she wasn't having it. There was a tussle and I yelled at the other dog owner who stood there smiling. 

I told Kayla to come to me and when she did and that other dog came after her again - that got Trigger (Foster GSD) involved for backup. Together they are unstoppable so the other dog owner ended up scowling at me. I told him to let me put my dogs in the truck and then I would HANDLE him one on one! 

He left. I still go to this park regularly, I have never seen that guy come back. 

There are all types and sizes of dogs at that park - Many HUGE breeds and even some dachshunds that think they are huge Cane Corsos! Owners are responsible and social; that is the key to a successful dog park.

I have pics of 7 GSD's happily playing at this park - with a couple of Corsos and a Dane!


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Courtney said:


> GSD + dog park = disaster


Not always.


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

chelle said:


> I do not like the humping dogs and their giggling owners (oh he's horny!) make me want to stick hot pokers in my eyes. I despise the idiot parents who bring two year old human children into the large dog side - or any side for that matter.


This annoys the **** out of me and makes me want to do the same thing.. as well as the small children in the large dog side, in particular. I don't take my boy to the dog park very often but when I do.. it's times like my last time that I remember why exactly it is that don't go very often. these two little boys are IN LOVE with Titan and hanging all over him and waning to play with him when all my boy wants to do is watch the other dogs.. sniff around and play with me. Not to mention these kids want to play fetch with him and to get him to drop the ball they find it appropriate to grab my dogs face and smack his head while repeatedly saying drop it at the top of their lungs. Man I could have just about murdered the parents of these children.. "sweetheart don't hit the puppy." First, puppy?!! really yes my 100 lb German shepherd is a puppy. and second instead of watching your child stick his hand into the mouth of a dog whom you don't know.. a very large dog at that... uh get off your *** and grab your child and discipline him! Could be why your dog is running a muck and not listening to you because you can't even control your own child. Luckily Titan is amazing with kids and super tolerant. Not that he LIKES them.. i can see it in his face, wishing me to take these small humans away from him so he can just chase a ball but he will tolerate their high pitched screams and tugs very well.

Sorry MINOR outburst guys.. It just infuriates me!!!


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

As far as me being a "danger" to dog parks. I know my dogs very well, ad explained here how they are. Neither dog picks fights. Niether seeks out other dogs. Both will not backdown from a challenge, and it is the dogs that run around challenging everybody that cause me problems. Went back to the same dog park. All was good until a male intact pit arrived and went around harrassing everyone. I put my dogs in a down, and my male had tennis ball between his legs.... Actually his elbows. Pit came over trying to take it. My male showed his teeth, I.e. perfectly acceptable "stay out of my space". Dog didn't care and jumped on my dog (still in a down). When he mouthed my dogs neck he had enough and pushed him off and charged the pit a few feet away from him. I gave a command and he stood, hackled, teeth bearing, tail flagged while the pit lunged and barked and threatened, but he stood still while I approached. Who was the real danger here? I don't feel my dog did a thing wrong, and more importantly he did exactly what I expected. Other dog went on to bully a gsd pup that arrived until that guy left the park (unfair) and the handler had zero control over this dog


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

And I'll restate. I'VE NEVER HAD A DOG FIGHT AT A DOG PARK


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> And I'll restate. I'VE NEVER HAD A DOG FIGHT AT A DOG PARK


 
That is great that you haven't had a dog fight at a dog park, how about your dog(s), have they ever had a dog fight at a dog park?


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> ...When he *mouthed my dogs neck* he had enough and pushed him off and charged the pit a few feet away from him. I gave a command and he stood, hackled, teeth bearing, tail flagged while the pit lunged and barked and threatened, but he stood still while I approached. Who was the real danger here? I don't feel my dog did a thing wrong, and more importantly he did exactly what I expected. Other dog went on to bully a gsd pup that arrived until *that guy left the park (unfair)* and the handler had zero control over this dog


Wow a pit that only "mouthed" the neck.? Interesting. Way to shut that pit down! Woohoo! 

But seriously, it sounds like you were a second away from a very ugly dog fight: pit vs GSD. That would surely be a bloody one. Sounds like your dog did react very appropriately, but that's not the point.

There is no "fair" at the dog park. You can't mix a ton of stupid owners and poorly behaved dogs and expect things to be "fair." Sometimes you just have to leave even if your dog isn't the problem... but knowing your dog could *become* the problem due to some other dogs' antics. 

I was very thankful just tonight that our timing was such that we were leaving as the pair of MinPins were coming in. They're a pair of nutjobs and their owner thinks they're so cute. They chase Bailey relentlessly. He runs because he loves the chase, but if he stops, they're right in his face barking and biting. Owner does nothing. Do they "deserve" a correction from my dog? Maybe... I don't know... but I sure don't want my dog to eventually flip out on them and have bloodloss occur over it. Not fair, nope, but when the MinPin twins are there, we leave. Eventually someone's dog is going to severely injure those MinPins due to their horrible behavior, but I sure don't want it to be my dog that does.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> As far as me being a "danger" to dog parks. I know my dogs very well, ad explained here how they are. Neither dog picks fights. Niether seeks out other dogs. Both will not backdown from a challenge, and it is the dogs that run around challenging everybody that cause me problems. Went back to the same dog park. All was good until a male intact pit arrived and went around harrassing everyone. I put my dogs in a down, and my male had tennis ball between his legs.... Actually his elbows. Pit came over trying to take it. My male showed his teeth, I.e. perfectly acceptable "stay out of my space". Dog didn't care and jumped on my dog (still in a down). When he mouthed my dogs neck he had enough and pushed him off and charged the pit a few feet away from him. I gave a command and he stood, hackled, teeth bearing, tail flagged while the pit lunged and barked and threatened, but he stood still while I approached. Who was the real danger here? I don't feel my dog did a thing wrong, and more importantly he did exactly what I expected. Other dog went on to bully a gsd pup that arrived until that guy left the park (unfair) and the handler had zero control over this dog


That is great that you had such great control over your dog. One question though - did the pit back off when your dog "pushed him off" by himself or did you have to help pull him off your dog?

And how did you get the pit to break his grip? That was a great feat by itself from what I know about how pits fight when they are serious. 

Your dog sounds like quite something!


----------



## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

chelle said:


> Wow a pit that only "mouthed" the neck.? Interesting. Way to shut that pit down! Woohoo!
> 
> But seriously, it sounds like you were a second away from a very ugly dog fight: pit vs GSD. That would surely be a bloody one. Sounds like your dog did react very appropriately, but that's not the point.
> 
> ...


Exactly. If all were "fair" at the dog park, my dogs would be wonderful dog park candidates as well. But it's not fair and they will never be good dog park dogs because of their sense of "fairness" you could say. They are all very attune to doggie manners and as a result don't hesitate to simply correct a dog with bad manners. Its not worth the risk given the high percentage of poorly mannered dogs at the dog park. 

In a case like this thread, the well trained, under-control dogs are not the issue. It's the bullies and pushy dogs that are also off leash. What if that pit would've decided he didn't appreciate your dogs correction? Regardless of how "appropriate" it was? As others have said, you probably would've had a mess on your hands.


----------



## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

codmaster said:


> That is great that you had such great control over your dog. One question though - did the pit back off when your dog "pushed him off" by himself or did you have to help pull him off your dog?
> 
> *And how did you get the pit to break his grip? That was a great feat by itself from what I know about how pits fight when they are serious. *
> 
> Your dog sounds like quite something!


He did not say that the pitty "locked on" Hunterisgreat said "mouthing" they are not the same thing.
Kinda like the difference between a 5K run and a marathon.

I know a boxer pit mix that reacts strongly to squeaks/sqeals from other dogs but just nips/pecks the sqeaky dog. Where as in the same situation there is a Lab/Shepherd mix, a Golden, and two Labs that are straight up dangerous as they shoulder check humans to get to the squeaky dog and they do LOCK on and literally will pick up the dog and shake it like a squeaky rag dog. (HATE SQEAKY TOYS)
Sorry, but I just can't do the all pits lock their jaws all the time thing. They don't. All dogs are capable of "Locking" it's just that some dogs have more powerful jaws. It doesn't make it any less acceptable behavior because a fluffy golden retriever does it, vs. a pit bull, dogo, mastiff, rottie or GSD.
Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable behavior. A dog isn't aggressive if it wants to be left alone and not be stood over, mounted, gauged, or herded (all forms of dominant behavior and challenges) Receiving the "leave me alone" and blowing it off is unacceptable. The owner needs to step up some leadership in the home and quit letting an animal make all the decisions and learn what play is and what isn't play.
IMHO.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

CarrieJ said:


> He did not say that the pitty "locked on" Hunterisgreat said "mouthing" they are not the same thing.
> Kinda like the difference between a 5K run and a marathon.
> 
> I know a boxer pit mix that reacts strongly to squeaks/sqeals from other dogs but just nips/pecks the sqeaky dog. Where as in the same situation there is a Lab/Shepherd mix, a Golden, and two Labs that are straight up dangerous as they shoulder check humans to get to the squeaky dog and they do LOCK on and literally will pick up the dog and shake it like a squeaky rag dog. (HATE SQEAKY TOYS)
> ...


Carrie,
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, BUT please check the medical facts - *NO PIT BULL (or any other dog for that matter) CAN LOCK THEIR JAWS! EVER!* Pitties just bite and hold very hard.

But that was not my point in the above instance of course!

Have you ever tried to get any big dog out of a fight when they have grabbed another dog - I doubt it very much, or else you might be able to realize how difficult it is usually!


BTW, what exactly do YOU mean by "Mouthing". My dog "mouths" my arm when we play. He grabs my armin his mouth but very gently and doesn't put any pressure on it with his teeth!

Should we assume that is exactly what you mean by your use of the same term "mouthing"? If not maybe you can try to explain what you meant - it does seem that the definition would make at least a little difference wouldn't it?


----------



## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Wow. Codmaster. Have another cocktail, you aren't quite defensive and angry enough.



> Have you ever tried to get any big dog out of a fight when they have grabbed another dog - I doubt it very much, or else you might be able to realize how difficult it is usually!


As a matter of fact. Yep. I agree it's difficult. Especially when they "grab and don't let go" 



> BTW, what exactly do YOU mean by "Mouthing". My dog "mouths" my arm when we play. *He grabs my armin his mouth but very gently and doesn't put any pressure on it with his teeth!
> 
> *


Dogs will do the same thing to other dogs. Problem being that the ones doing the "mouthing" are either trying to play or challenging. However, by standing over a dog in a down position ignoring said dog; generally is interpreted as a dominant challenge. Smart people will not let their dogs engage another dog in that way. That could lead to one of them big dog fights you seem to think that I haven't experienced.

Is that explained enough?
In that situation, the pitty's owner was an idiot. Wow, what a surprise, a pit bull at the dog park that shows dominance and challenges other dominant types of dogs.
My question would be hypothetical: What would the pitty have done if the GSD submitted? Rolled over etc. I bet like the puppy and it's owner that they drove off...he got worse. Possibly even aggressive.


----------



## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

We have two dog parks in our city. I will not go to the main one in the busy part of town. I tried it a couple times and there are some very nice people with some nice dogs that do go. However, there are also those that ruin it and because of them I stay away.

Instead, I will drive a long ways out of my way to go to the one on the north edge of town. It is older and gets few, if any, visitors. Usually at the times I go, I am the only person there so it is just a nice big area for some off-leash play time with the dog(s). When there are other dogs there, I have yet to have a problem with any of them as they are generally regulars.

I, personally, would never bring my dogs to a dog park in a new city while on vacation. It is not something I'm comfortable with at all.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

CarrieJ said:


> Wow. Codmaster. Have another cocktail, *you aren't quite defensive and angry enough.*
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact. Yep. I agree it's difficult. Especially when they "grab and don't let go"
> ...


 
So you have a case of BS bias? That is what it sounds like - don't like Pit Bulls, eh? That is certainly ok - a lot of folks feel the same way and others feel like that about GSD's, of course.

BTW - BS (in this case!) only stands for "Breed Specific".


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Wow, Hunter, thanks for reminding me NOT to go to dog parks. What you describe is a disaster waiting to happen!


----------



## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

You guys are killing me again. 
I was all excited to take Klause to the dog park. 
Now, not so much.
I guess Im not seeing the big deal with it all. Admittantly, I havent been there yet. I did read the waiver and Im not seeing how anothers misbehaving dog could be spun into somthing bad for me, and I figure Klause can take care of himself.
Has anyone actually had a serious dog fight resulting in expensive vet bills or serious damage to there dog ? 
Maybe im in for a surprise...


----------



## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

PatternDayTrader said:


> You guys are killing me again.
> I was all excited to take Klause to the dog park.
> Now, not so much.
> I guess Im not seeing the big deal with it all. Admittantly, I havent been there yet. I did read the waiver and Im not seeing how anothers misbehaving dog could be spun into somthing bad for me, and I figure Klause can take care of himself.
> ...


GSDs, Dobies, Rotts have it rougher at dog parks. People see a slightly tamed wolf instead of the devoted, loving companion that we know. It's a fact, no arguing there. You could have the most obedient bomb-proof dog in the park and if anything were to transpire between your dog and say...a lab...guess which will be portrayed as the slavering beast? If a tiff were to break out, it's likely that a GSD will come out on the other end better off than the other dog, but that is just the beginning of the ordeal. Since we have chosen such a special breed we must also be special owners and prevent such occurrences, it's only fair for the dog.


----------



## shadow mum (Apr 8, 2008)

I really don't post here often, more of a lurker/learner, but have to chime in on this one for PatternDayTrader.

I have a 3.5yr old male named Shadow, and we enjoyed going to the dog park. Was great when he was younger, and always came home tired out. That didn't last much longer than the time he turned a year old. I began noticing a lot more posturing, and Shadow was no longer allowing the other dogs to push him around. 

The last time I had him at the dog park, a large mixed breed ran at my 9yr old daughter and I growling. Shadow had been sent out on a retrieve, and was making his way back to us. It was like watching the situation in slow motion. I pushed my DD behind me and was yelling at the other dog to back off. Shadow tackled him from the side and the fight was on. The other owner was trying to get his dog, and I had Shadow by the back legs trying to pull him off. The other owner reached down to grab his dog's collar, and Shadow nailed his hand, BAD!! The other owner wasn't upset about it, as his dog had started it, but that was enough for me. I leashed Shadow and we left, never to return. That was almost two years ago. It is only this past few months that I have been able to walk Shadow past other dogs without him hackling and turning into a barking, snarling monster. A lot of counter conditioning, and tips taken from this board have helped alot.

I personally have decided that it's not worth the risk.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

PatternDayTrader said:


> Has anyone actually had a serious dog fight resulting in expensive vet bills or serious damage to there dog?


It _can_ happen, and I've heard of it happening. There was a board member that we met with his dog at a Bay Area meet at Fort Funston, a dog friendly beach, a couple of years ago. He and his girlfriend were there several months later with their two dogs (they had a little dog in addition to the GSD), and the GSD was seriously injured, resulting in some expensive vet bills. 

We'd been going there for many years and have never personally witnessed anything like that there, or at either of the other two parks we go to on a regular basis (see my pictures above, that's Point Isabel, the park we go to most frequently). My dogs have never injured another dog, nor have they been injured by another dog. But not all dogs are good candidates and not all parks are great places either.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

PatternDayTrader said:


> You guys are killing me again.
> I was all excited to take Klause to the dog park.
> Now, not so much.
> I guess Im not seeing the big deal with it all. Admittantly, I havent been there yet. I did read the waiver and Im not seeing how anothers misbehaving dog could be spun into somthing bad for me, and I figure Klause can take care of himself.
> ...


Yeah, you probably are!!! :rofl: (in for a surprise)

I sure can't speak for YOUR dog park, but mine has turned into quite a gem.

If your only concern is a serious dog fight resulting in expensive bills, you're overlooking the forest for the trees.

Only speaking for my local dog park, I can tell you what you'll deal with.

--Owners who sit on the picnic table and bs, while their dogs run.
--Owners who bring in nippy snippy barking butts who chase the big dogs around... (violating the rules, as dogs are supposed to be 20 lbs on that side of the park.)
--Owners who bring in treats and food and occasionally distribute them indiscriminately.
--Owners who bring in their DA dogs, with some insane idea that dog park socialization will fix their issues.
--Owners who come in the off-hours with their DA dogs, because they full well know they have DA dogs and they're trying to avoid the peak times.
--Owners who bring their very young children.
--Owners that bring in a tight knit, aggressive "pack" of dogs, who then gang up on any dog that approaches "their" pack.
--Owners that bring in their dinky dogs, who are supposed to be in the small dog side. (Cause for concern because these itty bitty ones could be seriously hurt by the antics of the large dogs, maybe by your large dog doing nothing more than chasing and playing.)
--Lots of humpers... usually owned by the bs'ers at the picnic tables, who do nothing to deal with it.. or maybe they do.. they giggle a lot.

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

We don't have a dog park here....if we do, it's far from my house

I would take my dogs if it looked like the Cassidy's Mom park. That looks like a great place to take dogs....and humans.

I guess in one sense, I'm lucky b/c I live in the middle of nowhere with woods surrounding us. If I walk down the road some, big open fields. I guess where that could be bad, I don't really know how my dogs would react surrounded by lots of other dogs. Just from the vet's office atmosphere and how he acts there.....I would never take my oldest to a dog park.

I'm a nervous person by nature anyway....so that probably wouldn't be good in a dog park. LOL


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

chelle said:


> --Owners who sit on the picnic table and bs, while their dogs run.
> --Owners who bring in nippy snippy barking butts who chase the big dogs around... (violating the rules, as dogs are supposed to be 20 lbs on that side of the park.)
> --Owners who bring in treats and food and occasionally distribute them indiscriminately.
> --Owners who bring in their DA dogs, with some insane idea that dog park socialization will fix their issues.
> ...


Dealt with most of those today actually.. funny how they all seem to be relatively the same. Good thing I am very outspoken and have no problem stepping in and "redirecting" other dogs and there "lovely" owners.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

wyoung2153 said:


> Dealt with most of those today actually.. funny how they all seem to be relatively the same. Good thing I am very outspoken and have no problem stepping in and "redirecting" other dogs and there "lovely" owners.


Yup, there are good days and bad. Bailey didn't get in any trouble at all last trip, but two of the regulars' dogs went at it. Actually got the attention of the bs'ers. I didn't see it, but I heard it and then it was broken up. One of the agitators kept their dog on leash for exactly 5 minutes after the incident and let him go again. Shame, as she's a very nice woman, but her dogs aren't very well behaved. She's got a notorious humper and she never stops him. I really do like her, and Bailey gets along with the non-humper she owns... but a nice human doesn't necessarily equal a nice dog.

I'm pretty sure I'm not well liked at the park. I just keep to myself and don't join in the chatter at the tables. I'm too busy watching who is coming in and what Bailey is doing. I did have a lady thank me last week when my dog, for the second time in his life, attempted to hump (her dog) and I shut him down pretty hard. I don't attempt to "correct" anyone's dog unless I feel it is a threat to mine, or is attempting to posture or hump mine. At the same time, if my dog were doing either, I'm right there to shut him down. My dog sometimes tries to get smaller, scared dogs to play. Why people bring scared dogs into the park is beyond me, but it's still my responsibility to call my dog away from them. So I do. I've never seen *anyone* at my local dog park do that. Their dogs gang up on the "new" dog and those jerks never lift a single fat buttcheek off the picnic table. If you listen, they'll say things like, "the dogs will figure it out" while the newcomer's owner usually looks confused and upset, but unsure what to do. It pisses me off, but it isn't my dog or my right to step in. 

My days at the dogpark are likely numbered. I'm considering joining a privately owned park this spring instead.


----------

