# This really chaps me



## DWP (Mar 31, 2011)

Story: Trending: Mom Wants Pitbulls Banned After Her Toddler is Mauled - Trending Now on Patch - Alpharetta-Milton, GA Patch Mom wants Pitbulls banned

Then you read that a partner in her efforts is the organization "Daxtons Friends" at http://www.daxtonsfriends.com/ They are crusading against aggressive breeds disguised as a "responsible pet onership" site. I am sorry for the loss of their son, but you need to click on their description of German Shepherds to understand my anger.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The alternative for these people is to blame themselves. That is too painful for them. I understand how someone suffering from something like losing a child to a dog attack will be trying to ban the dogs.

I thought the description of GSDs wasn't too terrible. Yeah, wasn't too kind to the working line dogs, ADHD and unsuitable for living in homes, but mostly it was a lot better than some of these anti-dog people say. He has listed there 15 fatalities attributed to GSDs in over 30 years. As popular as the breed is...

And, I don't know, it seems like, maybe it would be best if most people considering what breed of dog to get are steered away from GSDs, at least initially. Better for the breed if we weren't quite so popular.


----------



## DWP (Mar 31, 2011)

*Good Point*

You make a good point about the GSD being to popular. 

I understand their emotions as well, however to excuse irrational behavior utilized to influence others is not acceptable.

Not accusing you of that just trying to better describe the reason for my outrage and disdain.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Is this what angered you?
"Because they are so often used for police work, some lines of GSDs have developed behavior that makes them unsuitable as household pets. Police lines often suffer an ADHD-like excitability and lack of impulse control. Some have developed what looks like ‘impulsive aggression’ – sudden, unprovoked, disproportionately savage attacks on another dog or on a human. If you are considering a German Shepherd Dog as a household companion, it is important to be sure you choose a dog from a working guide dog line or a companion dog line, and avoid breeders who supply police trainers and/or shutzhund clubs. This is particularly important if you expect the dog to interact safely with children and with other animals."


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

"Because they are so often used for police work, some lines of GSDs have developed behavior that makes them unsuitable as household pets. Police lines often suffer an ADHD-like excitability and lack of impulse control. Some have developed what looks like ‘impulsive aggression’ – sudden, unprovoked, disproportionately savage attacks on another dog or on a human. If you are considering a German Shepherd Dog as a household companion, it is important to be sure you choose a dog from a working guide dog line or a companion dog line, and avoid breeders who supply police trainers and/or shutzhund clubs. This is particularly important if you expect the dog to interact safely with children and with other animals"

Wow, that's going to rile up a whole ton of people here, lol. It seems to be condoning BYB too, the 'pet market' type of dog. No mention of show lines though - I wonder where they fit in?


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

The woman does say to message her if she posted incorrect info.

I do agree that the average pet owner does not need to get a GSD from lines bred for police. We already had someone on this board have to return her dog because the breeder sold her a high-drive police dog that should not have been in a pet home with a 4-year-old in the first place.

It might be a good idea if, instead of getting all outraged, we could rephrase that paragraph and send it to her.


----------



## DWP (Mar 31, 2011)

*NO! The breed description is not it.*

Using the unfortunate incident to ban breeds is the attrocity. GSDs will be next if this gets traction.


----------



## DWP (Mar 31, 2011)

*I was wrong to point out the breed description*

The efforts are misguided


----------



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Instead of trying to get these dogs banned she should push education and that families of young children should think twice about having these dogs as pets.I really dont see a issue with her description of german shepherds. I think if you do have children you should be careful what line of german shepherd you are getting. Too many issues ive read on this forum and having a dog with nerves from a BYB I think its important to do just that.


----------



## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

I think it's ok, but there seem to be a lot of generalized comments, and I'd like to know where they got their information from. "Police lines" might not make good pets for the average family, but they don't even mention that. They say that the dogs themselves are unbalanced, lack control, and are violent. Any dog can be a "bad" dog. I think stress should be more on choosing a dog that fits your lifestyle, and then raising it properly. 

One thing I was curious about, the description said to avoid breeders who supply Schutzhund clubs. Don't people bring their own dogs to a club? How does a breeder supply a club? Maybe I missed something.


----------



## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

A Proper working line dog should be the perfect family dog as long as it does not get stuck in a yard with no training, exercise, or attention. Yes there are high drive dogs that need to work and should be in working homes...not pets. BUT a well rounded working line dog with proper care and training would be a much better choice over a nervy, pet raised backyard breeder dog. They do seem to make it sound like you should avoid quality breeders!!!!


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

You know what ive noticed,

In all the bully dog attacked my baby news i see, they always show the picture of the dog who attacked, and the dog is always muscled out wearing a big huge spike collar.

When i see some people put those big spiked collars on their bully breed dog they are almost always trying to portray the worst. So, i have to wonder the mentality that went into raising the dog in the first place.


----------



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

SiegersMom said:


> A Proper working line dog should be the perfect family dog as long as it does not get stuck in a yard with no training, exercise, or attention. Yes there are high drive dogs that need to work and should be in working homes...not pets. BUT a well rounded working line dog with proper care and training would be a much better choice over a nervy, pet raised backyard breeder dog. They do seem to make it sound like you should avoid quality breeders!!!!



Then I agree with the poster below. Someone should contact them and let them know how their statement sounds.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When I see the spiked collars, I envision myself grabbing the dog by its collar and getting my hand all bloody on the spikes. 

It doesn't matter what the article is about. 

Now I think I must have an ax to grind about spiked collars. 

I won't be buying one.


----------



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

selzer said:


> When I see the spiked collars, I envision myself grabbing the dog by its collar and getting my hand all bloody on the spikes.
> 
> It doesn't matter what the article is about.
> 
> ...


I prefer bandanas..lol I think it better portrays my dogs personality


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Msmaria said:


> I prefer bandanas..lol I think it better portrays my dogs personality


I just ordered the "nomm nomm sushi" collar, with wasabi and rolls,


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Proper care and training is one thing, and many people have those intentions, but then life gets in the way and they can't do the things they planned. This isn't just true for working lines though, its all GSD, and all breeds that were originally bred to have some sort of working purpose IMO.

This is exactly how all BSL starts...not sure why it would make anyone mad. That's the way our society works...its about prevention through not allowing ownership rather than education. I think this society has proven time and time again that no amount of education works. For every 999 people that can effectively own a "dangerous breed" there is 1 that doesn't and this type of thing happens. I completely understand why the lawmakers then go to not allowing all 1000 to own the breed because in theory...they can just get another breed of dog, that kid can't get another life. I'm 100% against BSL, but if my child was killed by a certain breed of dog that is known to be dangerous, I'd start just as big of a fuss about it.

I've also witnessed people purposely buying the black leather, studded collars. It was funny, one guy saw me walk by with my GSD and made a very proud comment that, "He can't bring his pit in the store because it would want to kill everything." Funny because my dog is getting trained in bite work and yet I have no problems at all bringing him to the store. I love when people think that others will be impressed by their DA or HA dogs...when in reality it just makes it a huge liability rather than something useful like a well trained dog can be.

I know this will be kind of controversial...but I don't get why some people do get the breed of dog they do. Like...unless you're working your dog in what its intended for, or if you're using some of its advanced abilities over another breed for something useful, do you really need that particular breed? Or will any breed give you the companionship you desire? And yes...plenty of people here own GSDs and pretty much have them for companionship, and I'm not saying its wrong, but the people on here are also generally better dog owners and can take care of that dog's needs.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

He can't bring his pit in the store because it would want to kill everything.

What an absolutely stupid comment,


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> He can't bring his pit in the store because it would want to kill everything.
> 
> What an absolutely stupid comment,


Not just a stupid comment, but just the way he said it. Like he's proud of that. I just don't get it. If my dog was DA I'd be more embarrassed than proud. I'd be upset that I can't do the regular/normal dog things with my dog that people like to do.

I love taking my dog to the petstore. I'd love to take him to any store if it was allowed. I borderline feel bad for those that can't take their dogs to a petstore because their dog isn't balanced enough to handle it.

I actually remember a time when a lady questioned me about how I can bring my GSD into the petstore...not due to anger or fear, but because she had an unstable GSD that she couldn't bring anywhere and she thought that kind of "guarding behavior" was normal for the breed. I could tell she was kind of envious of the fact that I could take my dog to the store and not worry about anything happening.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Ya i am right there, i take my guys into the pet store all the time, although i will say that, my border collie gets petted, as does my giant floppy earred GSD mix (kids flock to her, she is gentle and sweet with them) but Tyson is avoided like the black plague, children are yanked by their parents away from him like hes a time bomb waiting to happen, we continue on i tend to feel bad for him, although he is aloof and doesnt give a crap.


----------



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I cant understand those comments either. I love being able to take Dex places. It terrifies me that he may become DA as he gets older.

@ Misslesleedavis1. i get the same with Dex. luckily too, he doesnt seem to notice and doesnt care.


----------



## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Instead of trying to get these dogs banned she should push education and that families of young children should think twice


Let me continue a bit aside. GSD is often called a "plasticine dog". A dog from a good breeder with good genes could be modelled into anything you like: he could be trained to react agressively, but he also could be trained to be a therapy dog working with children. A p*urebred GSD is potentially agressive, and everything depends not on the dog, but on the handler.* Unfortunately, people cannot be trusted, people have to be controlled by the law. But, there's no law in US!!! Everyone who wants GSD can get a puppy. How many people want to have a PP dog? Do you believe they are ready to spend decades training him and want him to be super-obedient? I just suspect, that someone trains his dog on tramps... Very interesting...A bleeding to death tramp doesn't deserve as much pity as a child! I came across such GSD owners, a very special type of madmen, they want their dogs to be agressive and they are proud of it. Then, brainless mothers, who allow their toddlers to pester the family dog, do not read anything about dogs and do not watch their children. And, if the dog nips a child on his cheek in the way the adult dog would correct his puppy for wrong behaviour - there is a cry "Euthanize him, he has wrong genes!" But, who has ever checked the misbehaviour of the owner? IMHO, some dog owners should be in psychiatric hospitals, and many families shouldn't be permitted to have any other dog than Maltese. GSD should be licenced in order to filter out irresponsible owners.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Tyson is avoided like the black plague, children are yanked by their parents away from him like hes a time bomb waiting to happen, we continue on i tend to feel bad for him, although he is aloof and doesnt give a crap.


LOL, I had to laugh, I just knew Tyson was a BLK GSD.:laugh:


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> He can't bring his pit in the store because it would want to kill everything.
> 
> What an absolutely stupid comment,


I met one of those "owners" it was pretty eye opening. He was stunned that Rock was in a down stay while I spoke with him??

It was a pretty disappointing dog based conversation for the most part...

Fortunately he had no dogs at this time anyway.


----------



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> Let me continue a bit aside. GSD is often called a "plasticine dog". A dog from a good breeder with good genes could be modelled into anything you like: he could be trained to react agressively, but he also could be trained to be a therapy dog working with children. A p*urebred GSD is potentially agressive, and everything depends not on the dog, but on the handler.* Unfortunately, people cannot be trusted, people have to be controlled by the law. But, there's no law in US!!! Everyone who wants GSD can get a puppy. How many people want to have a PP dog? Do you believe they are ready to spend decades training him and want him to be super-obedient? I just suspect, that someone trains his dog on tramps... Very interesting...A bleeding to death tramp doesn't deserve as much pity as a child! I came across such GSD owners, a very special type of madmen, they want their dogs to be agressive and they are proud of it. Then, brainless mothers, who allow their toddlers to pester the family dog, do not read anything about dogs and do not watch their children. And, if the dog nips a child on his cheek in the way the adult dog would correct his puppy for wrong behaviour - there is a cry "Euthanize him, he has wrong genes!" But, who has ever checked the misbehaviour of the owner? IMHO, some dog owners should be in psychiatric hospitals, and many families shouldn't be permitted to have any other dog than Maltese. GSD should be licenced in order to filter out irresponsible owners.


 i totally agree, thats why people with young children should be told this and told how much training and interaction these dogs need. So many with young children just dont have the time to do proper training. They get puppies because they are cute. Not wanting the dog when it gets older because it has been allowed to become a terror, BECAUSE they dont have the time to train the dog properly. How many of us see families with new puppies..taking the puppy out everywhere and then 6 months later the dogs in the backyard never to be seen again. You can only hear its cries and barking incessantly. Again educating the public on this is important. These dogs are alot of work unless they can become aggressive. People ned to be told this over and over.


----------



## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Though GSD is a potentially agressive dog, I never heard that GSD savaged a child with a reason too little for attack. Mainly it is nipping for pestering, especially when a family dog wants to sleep during the day, or it could be playing and wrestling with a dog, so the dog's resistence was aggravated and led to agressive responce. In no way GSD could be compared to pit bulls or mastiffs. I believe, this mastiff has attacked the girl only because she was snorring in her sleep, and it reminded him a growling. I know that some dogs like bulldogs produce some snorting sounds due to difficulty in breathing which reminds growling, and they are often attacked by other dogs just for that. But, I'm absolutely sure, that no dominant, offensively agressive GSD would do this:
Mountsorrel dog attack: Lexi Branson - first pictures of the little girl killed by family dog - Mirror Online


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Do you believe they are ready to spend decades training him and want him to be super-obedient?


I'd love to find one of these dogs that requires decades of training. How many additional decades do they live after the training?


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think that while the parents' response is understandable, I believe that the legislating body in whatever location should not react to situations like this one by passing breed specific legislation. Maybe dog owners who are parents need to be charged when they leave babies and toddlers in positions where they can get killed.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I agree Selzer,


Think about it like this,

I left my 4 year old in a room with a loaded gun and he shot himself and now i hate guns and we should ban them.

Maybe not to that extreme but still its silly.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

That, exactly. Not extreme. How many babies and toddlers have to DIE before people stop leaving them alone with dogs. A six pound dog killed and infant. People have to wake up. How can you carry a child in you for nine months and then fail so miserably to keep them safe? I mean, somethings you can't protect against. But no child should manage to shoot themselves and no child should be killed by their family dog.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Dogs are easier to blame,

It was the dog it snapped!!!

well, your get more of an media reaction out of that then,

It was the pool!! he drowned,

And media eats pitbull attacks up, make them monsters,


----------



## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

selzer said:


> I think that while the parents' response is understandable, I believe that the legislating body in whatever location should not react to situations like this one by passing breed specific legislation. Maybe dog owners who are parents need to be charged when they leave babies and toddlers in positions where they can get killed.


Very true. it reminds me of the case where a family was blaming the neighbor and his dog for their toddler being killed. The dog was chained in his yard and they were questioning where the neighbor was when his dog was mauling their child. Where were the parents? of this child when their toddler was crawling through the back yard fence? outside alone? Why didnt the parents fix the fence that led to the neighbors dog? Its so sad because now a child and dog has to pay for our stupidity.


----------



## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

I'm exaggerating about decades. I trained PP dogs, on one hand I regret that I had ever dipped into this, but on the other - I know how long it takes and how much effort you have to put in training. These dogs were raised as PP dogs from birth, trained and sold. In the way I have met many lightminded people who gave up before their "pet" was 2 for that or other reason, and I remember really well what happened after as a result. Nobody really can train a PPD in UK himself, and a very few people really need them, but the number of young men who wants to train their dog as PP is appaling. Police does their best about checking who is a trainer, still, the number of semi-trained dogs in public hands is large. People tend to overcome the law, good grief, the law exists.


----------



## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I am not a fan of BSL but saying GSD will be next in line for BSL is a bit of a straw man argument. 

BSL has been in place in some areas for 15 years and they haven't progressed to GSD yet. There is more BSL in Great Britain than in US and I don't believe GSD are on the list.

If you read the account of the attack on the little boy in question it is brutal- the dogs ripped the babysitter (the owner of the dogs) off the toddler as she lay over him trying to protect him from her dogs that were also savaging her. The dogs and baby were never allowed to interact. The babysitter made a mistake in allowing her dogs a chance to get at her, but this wasn't a case of the babysitter leaving a small kid alone with the dogs. I don't see neglect here at all for the dogs or the child. The dogs acted in an over-the-top aggressive way. It's heartbreaking the parents lost their child this way. If I were them, I'd try to educate people on potentially dangerous dogs, too. It's important for people to realize it is not always just about how you raise them. Some breeds need more management than others and are not for the casual dog owner.


----------



## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Muskeg said:


> I am not a fan of BSL but saying GSD will be next in line for BSL is a bit of a straw man argument.
> 
> BSL has been in place in some areas for 15 years and they haven't progressed to GSD yet. There is more BSL in Great Britain than in US and I don't believe GSD are on the list.


I agree. We have BSL over here in OZ....APBT are banned in my state along with the likes of Cane Corso and a few others I can't spell.
I don't get too worried about it all.....I don't think we will ever see a day where the GSD is a banned breed over here. There is no negative talk regarding them because they are only ever involved in minor bites (the ones that don't make the news).....no deaths, no shocking attacks as has been the case with APBT/mastiff type breeds so I wouldn't get too worried about it over there.
I agree with David Taggart.....they aren't really the breed that is going to pull someone down in a lobby and kill them for no reason......they won't be banned.


----------



## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I used to think that the pitbull issue was owners. But knowing a bit about gsd, temperament, drives, and thresholds. There are a bunch of pitbulls out there that are BAD dogs. theres nothing owners can do to change them and they do attack. its not a pitbull issue but the dummy breeders are breeding the wrong dogs.


----------



## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

I agree. Some of these dogs just aren't wired right.

Reading this article it doesn't appear the dogs were owned by dummies or treated badly. If it is accurate they just turned on her.....she didn't do anything wrong.....as if she would have thought they would savage her to get to the child.......they were her own dogs. 
Can't see GSD doing this......If cases like this keep happening of course people will want them banned.

Beyond the Interview: Father of Child Killed by Babysitter's Pit Bulls Speaks Out After Attack - DogsBite.org

Very sad the whole thing


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

volcano said:


> I used to think that the pitbull issue was owners. But knowing a bit about gsd, temperament, drives, and thresholds. There are a bunch of pitbulls out there that are BAD dogs. theres nothing owners can do to change them and they do attack. its not a pitbull issue but the dummy breeders are breeding the wrong dogs.


Well that's certainly giving a whole lot of ignorant irresponsible owners a pass! I've met some of those folks and they are not people you'd want to hang around with!

My first dog was a BullMastiff/APBT mix and he was a sweetheart! He came from BYB's and his temperament was sound! And yes I know it was sound he obeyed my down command while under full attack by my GSD (issues to be worked out still at the time,)he never bit me even under full"duress"!) my GSD did! So I don't believe it's "bad genes" more like ignorant A Holes are the problem! Not really sure why anybody wants to give morones a pass? And at any rate "this" wasn't a pit attack but pits always get thrown in the mix!

If a car falls off jack stands and crushes a guy, someone will say they saw a pitt in the 
neighborhood with a car jack!

The "rescue" organization screwed up, they should have never let that lady have the dog "they" should have know better! It's was there job to keep people from being too stupid!


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I think the problem is a lack of knowledge of dog behavior on the side of some owners and rescues. 

To say a dog is wired wrong is a bit of a stretch just because a dog doesn't sit nicely into a box which we define as a nice house dog. 

Dogs are animals with animal needs. If they are not understood and fulfilled then they can act inappropriately. 

Any dog should be supervised with children no matter what. 

A dog is more predator than teddy bear and it deserves to be respected. I think a lot of people fail to realize this these days.


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

I think for anybody to understand dog fatalities they should compare the following statistics.

Every year over *30,000* people die in road accidents in america.
(Minimum 32,000 in the last 20 years, max 43,000)

Every year over *30* people die in America as a result of a dog attack.
(Minimum 14 and max being 36 in last 10 years)


More than *480,000* deaths annually due to Smoking Tobacco (including deaths from secondhand smoke)

Obesity and related illness is also a huge percentage of premature deaths in America.

List of motor vehicle deaths in U.S. by year - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fatal dog attacks in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CDC - Fact Sheet - Tobacco-Related Mortality - Smoking & Tobacco Use

http://www.natureworldnews.com/arti...more-americans-previously-estimated-study.htm


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

There are a large # of reported bites though - so we need to do better in this area in general:
*Why be concerned about dog bites?*



About 4.5 million people are bitten by dogs each year.1
Almost one in five of those who are bitten, about 885,000, require medical attention for dog bite-related injuries; half of these are children.1
In 2012, more than 27,000 people underwent reconstructive surgery as a result of being bitten by dogs.2
CDC | Dog Bites | Home and Recreational Safety | Injury Center


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

The last bully mix i saw came fresh off the streets of south oshawa (a not so great part of town) he was unaltered, he should of under the BLS law here been taken right to the vet and been destroyed. Instead a bleeding heart rescue got him and put him in foster care under the name "american bull dog lab mix" he was not, they gave him to a foster family who thought he was "sooooo cute" when he smashed his head into them and demanded attention, well because of the rescue and because of the clueless foster family he went to he ended up putting several stitches in someones arm. Then, because that bite went unreported he was adopted out to someone with small kids. Sorry, thats a big fat bite waiting to happen.


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> Sorry, thats a big fat bite waiting to happen.


And would it be any different if it was an Akita, Gsd or any mastiff mix, or any other large dog.

That's the thing. Any large breed dog can do damage and need responsible ownership. 

Bull breeds will always get singled out due to the stigma surrounding them.



> The last bully mix I saw





> put him in foster care under the name "american bull dog lab mix" he was not


A bully mix is a bully mix. Whats wrong with it being called a American bull dog lab mix. My female is a lab cross bullmastiff and she is pretty tough. The lab doesn't have much influence at all. Still these dogs shouldn't be given out to people who aren't going to discipline and exercise them.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

MadLab said:


> And would it be any different if it was an Akita, Gsd or any mastiff mix, or any other large dog.
> 
> That's the thing. Any large breed dog can do damage and need responsible ownership.
> 
> Bull breeds will always get singled out due to the stigma surrounding them.


Nope,
It would not have been different, a bite thats causes stitches is a bite that causes stitches no matter what the dog breed is. 

He just happened to be a bully breed, the rescue really screwed up by not telling the adopters.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

@Madlab,

He was clearly not a lab mix, 

My point is, he caused severe damage to someone, he was adopted out into a family with small kids, the bite went undisclosed to them. 

He could have been a doodle mix, it would not of made the problem any less of a problem,


----------



## Arlene/Archer (Mar 7, 2013)

Muskeg said:


> I am not a fan of BSL but saying GSD will be next in line for BSL is a bit of a straw man argument.
> 
> BSL has been in place in some areas for 15 years and they haven't progressed to GSD yet. There is more BSL in Great Britain than in US and I don't believe GSD are on the list.


It's not a strawman at all- GSDs are on the restricted breed list here in Ireland already. It's nonsense of course, but knee jerk legislation usually is. 
Restricted Dog Breed Information - The Dublin Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals | DSPCA


----------



## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

This is something that continues to irk me when I see things like that in the news. I'm not ignorant to the fact that a lot of owners have great intentions, and that some dogs, rarely, are honestly wired wrong due to over breeding and a line of mental instability.. I do truly think that rescues and shelters REALLY need to be the ones educated on dog breeds. Not just bully breeds, but dog breeds in general. So when they have a family that wants a certain dog they can properly educate that family on that breed.. and just dog behavior in general. 

I can't find the article, I'll try to search more for it later, it was some time ago, but it was an article about a dog attacking their toddler and how it just snapped with no warning. They had videos posted with the article to show how they used to play just fine before the attack, where the dog was laying on the ground, ears back, extreme panting, obviously not thrilled eith the situation, while the child is jumping all over him, pulling his ears and cheeks, getting in the dogs face, jumping on his back. Everyone is "oh that's so cute!" and laughing.. REALLY!!??!! And you wonder why your dog "snapped." It was just waiting to happen. The owners probably didn't research, the people who sold them the dog or rescue that gave them the dog clearly didn't educate them at all about dog behavior of any kind.. Which I know is how society is now a days, but that's exactly the reason these things happen.. the dog wasn't aggressive, it was annoyed.. and had enough. 

Sorry that's my rant. Very interesting thread, I like reading people's thoughts since this is such a hot topic now.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Also Madlab,

I am not for the BSL law,

I must ask though, what did the rescue and everyone who was involved do to help the BSL law in that situation?

Nothing, they adopted out a banned breed with a bite history to a family with small kids and did not disclose the bite history, if that dog (who just happens to be a bully breed) bites anyone else they can thank themselves for making the BSL law that much tougher.


----------



## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

We have working lines, DDR/Czech. While shopping we did decide to go with working line because the parents were much more stable than the "pet-lines"....healthier as well! 

Our two are so stable and so well balanced....a kid running, screaming, jumping, dropping things....never phases them. They do start licking and sniffing if a toddler starts crying...but it seems they are looking for the source of pain or irritation. 

I don't think they understand the breed to well...by suggesting " pet-line"....if they understood the breed better...they would suggest mental stability and pups who's family have balanced temperament....































































The dogs are very suited for family's and other pets if the proper structure had been taught (responsible pet owner will do this)....
None of the infants and toddlers are our kids...they are friends kids. Our girls are 14 and 16....the toddlers can take toys, food, treats, from the dogs just like we can and our daughters can. The toddlers can walk them on leads, never get pulled and the pups will take the same commands from toddlers that they do from us or our girls. Strangers never get bad reactions....and we have play dates with other dogs. The foster cat in the last pic...uses the puppy's as scratching/rubbing post....never chases or attacks. They go to the apple orchard and petting farm....no one is attacked or eaten, many other dogs visit this place as well....


Basically....it is irritating to have ALL shepherds and pits along with all the other "bully breeds" put into the same judged box....but that is what closed minded people do! They can see their part in the situation and blame the animals instead of the humans that cause the situation. I don't know the story for the child that died....but it is usually human error. 
We had a jack Russell terroir....14 years old when he died. He was the same age as my youngest daughter. He was NEVER left alone with any child, even our own! He had been purchased from a "pet-family" dog breeder! He was nervy. He was obnoxious. He was a toy hoarder. He was good aggressive. He did not like cats, would chase them and corner them. He did not like kids of any age. It was adults or nothing. Even with hundreds of hours of training....I never trusted him with any child, mine, friends or strangers. We trained him to walk to our room and stay there until kids left our home. He was trained to avoid our kids. And he knew that he was only to interact with ours in certain places in the house. 
It took the first 3 years of his life to teach this, but as a responsible pet owner...it was our job! If people asked to pet him...it was NO! We knew what kind of dog we ended up with, we knew that if we dumped him at the shelter, he would be put down or someone else's problem and a bad situation could happen! 
It ALL comes back to responsible dog owners and human error. When looking at shepherds, we researched for a year, we have training, socializing, and adult supervision in every situation! 
I am the type of person who trust my shepherds! But know that ALL animals are instinctual and will do what comes naturally to them! It is not the dogs fault, just as it is not a sharks fault or a horses fault....it is human error...and irresponsible pet owners. 
My children would never be allowed to interact with any animal without supervision. Our cat and foster cat are not allowed to be alone with them. The girls also have very in depth lessons of how to deal with and respect other animals space. They (from toddler size) have been taught to always give animals their space and never push the animals. 

I hate that children and animals tend to be the corona and targets but until dooy adults understand they are part of the problem...this "bully breed" nonsense will continue! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

Msmaria said:


> Instead of trying to get these dogs banned she should push education and that families of young children should think twice about having these dogs as pets.I really dont see a issue with her description of german shepherds. I think if you do have children you should be careful what line of german shepherd you are getting. Too many issues ive read on this forum and having a dog with nerves from a BYB I think its important to do just that.



Exactly....educate...and find good genes when shopping for a dog of any breed! Our jack Russell was from a back yard breeder, we rescued him as a puppy...but he was the nerviest and craziest dog I have ever dealt with. :-(


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

MadLab said:


> I think the problem is a lack of knowledge of dog behavior on the side of some owners and rescues.
> 
> To say a dog is wired wrong is a bit of a stretch just because a dog doesn't sit nicely into a box which we define as a nice house dog.
> 
> ...



Agreed....our jack Russell had to be managed! 
For the parents to allow the child to be babysit in a home with two dogs...they made the choice to put a child in that situation. 
The sitter, allowing the dogs out and in the same room as the child, I would not allow that without parents there...again the child and dogs being thrown into a possible situation. 
When guest visited our home, with children or we babysat for others parents for date night swaps....Percy... The devil jack Russell was put into our bedroom and the door was locked from the inside. The door could not be accidentally opened or dog get out with out us knowing. We accepted that Percy was the dog we had in visioned and did not leave the door open to a bad situation. Our shepherds are amazing with children but are never left alone with them. I feel all animals have wild instincts that are hair in them....and you have to respect that instinct with any animal! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

wyoung2153 said:


> This is something that continues to irk me when I see things like that in the news. I'm not ignorant to the fact that a lot of owners have great intentions, and that some dogs, rarely, are honestly wired wrong due to over breeding and a line of mental instability.. I do truly think that rescues and shelters REALLY need to be the ones educated on dog breeds. Not just bully breeds, but dog breeds in general. So when they have a family that wants a certain dog they can properly educate that family on that breed.. and just dog behavior in general.
> 
> I can't find the article, I'll try to search more for it later, it was some time ago, but it was an article about a dog attacking their toddler and how it just snapped with no warning. They had videos posted with the article to show how they used to play just fine before the attack, where the dog was laying on the ground, ears back, extreme panting, obviously not thrilled eith the situation, while the child is jumping all over him, pulling his ears and cheeks, getting in the dogs face, jumping on his back. Everyone is "oh that's so cute!" and laughing.. REALLY!!??!! And you wonder why your dog "snapped." It was just waiting to happen. The owners probably didn't research, the people who sold them the dog or rescue that gave them the dog clearly didn't educate them at all about dog behavior of any kind.. Which I know is how society is now a days, but that's exactly the reason these things happen.. the dog wasn't aggressive, it was annoyed.. and had enough.
> 
> Sorry that's my rant. Very interesting thread, I like reading people's thoughts since this is such a hot topic now.



Exactly...human error...! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

mcdanfam said:


> We have working lines, DDR/Czech. While shopping we did decide to go with working line because the parents were much more stable than the "pet-lines"....healthier as well!
> 
> Our two are so stable and so well balanced....a kid running, screaming, jumping, dropping things....never phases them. They do start licking and sniffing if a toddler starts crying...but it seems they are looking for the source of pain or irritation.
> 
> ...



Sorry...misspells...and auto correct errors...

We rescued the jack Russell but he was purchased originally from a breeder. Obviously not a good one. We got him when he was 12 weeks old. The purchasers did not keep him longer than 2 weeks..even as cute puppy they regretted their decision. 
Not sure for their reason, but we did rescue him. We were told he would be great for our family. Needless to say, most shelters need to be better educated. 




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MadLab said:


> A bully mix is a bully mix. Whats wrong with it being called a American bull dog lab mix. My female is a lab cross bullmastiff and she is pretty tough. The lab doesn't have much influence at all. Still these dogs shouldn't be given out to people who aren't going to discipline and exercise them.


Lab has no impact..full disclosure. My guy was a Bull/Mastiff/APBT/Lab mix and a Tri color??? I met the parents.

You couldn't see the lab but get him near water and in he went Your guy doesn't do water??

Regarding Bully breed ID well there's the rub. I could have just as easily referred to my guy as a lab mix which he was, a Bull Mastiff mix which he was or an APBT mix which he was. Pretty sure a fair share of the bad PR Pitts are getting are not all PB's...for the record.

But any dog that is not raised around children should be considered a ticking time bomb! My Boxer and Gunther grew up around children and still only interacted with them under supervision. Rocky has barely seen kids his fallback position should be, don't care about strangers. Is he safe with kids, I don't "know" and would never put him in a position where we found out! 

That is how responsible people deal with dogs!


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Nah, Mine hasn't found her flippers yet. She jumped/fell in by accident and sometimes got booted in by myself. She can swim as any dog can and at 3 is now showing more sign that she is gonna start. Going in up to her neck and starting to float a bit.

She retrieves a bit. She'd rather run for something and grab it and lie down with it. She doesn't do happy unless she knows people.

Very skittish and aggressive as a pup, but nice and stable and aware as an adult. Took a lot of work to get her to where she is and I'm prowd of her and happy she grew into a nice dog. I was seriously worried from 6 to 12 months due to human aggression.

Not really dog aggressive but uses aggression to guard herself or let dogs know not to touch her or take anything from her. Trained to not fight and I seen her try avoid a scrap with another female bullmastiff around 5-6 times before she gave her a lesson.

Regarding breeds. If I mix any terrier into her they are gonna be lab bull terriers without any pit blood, yet would be called pit bulls. Pit bull is a tag for the look of a dog with bull blood which is crossed with anything.

I guess American pit bull is a composite breed any ways of bull dogs and mastiffs and labs and terriers so it's ahrd to say what is pure.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> There are a large # of reported bites though - so we need to do better in this area in general:
> *Why be concerned about dog bites?*
> 
> 
> ...


It all comes down to insurance. Home owner's insurance will squeeze out as many 'high risk' dogs as they can to avoid costly medical bills. 4.5 million bites. How many of those resulted in a law suit? Medical bills?


----------



## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

MadLab said:


> To say a dog is wired wrong is a bit of a stretch just because a dog doesn't sit nicely into a box which we define as a nice house dog.


LOL.....it was the part about them ripping apart their owner to kill a child (that they new) sitting on her hip that I was referring to. I'd hardly call that a stretch.
Some of you keep going on about supervision......SHE HAD THE KID ON HER HIP.......I would call that supervision.


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Volcano


> I used to think that the pitbull issue was owners.


Sparra


> I agree. Some of these dogs just aren't wired right.


Sounds like your generalizing pit bulls rather than speaking about a particular dog or case.

From the article:
the two pit bulls turned from *playful and "nippy"* into a violent frenzy. We've since learned more about what occurred before and after the attack. *The agreement between Susan and the boy's parents was that Dax was always to be kept away from the two pit bulls and the dogs kenneled.* March 6th had started that way.

Human error is usually at play when a dog attacks a child.

The signs can be there but nobody realizes or is in control and so accidents happen.


----------



## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

MadLab said:


> Volcano
> 
> Sparra
> 
> ...


You didn't read to the end.....the playful and nippy was what the media made up......if you read on the owner clears this up saying that this is not what happened at all.
Surely carrying a child on your hip to let a dog out to pee is not irresponsible......something she had done many times.......I get tired of people making excuses for horrible dogs such as these......I am talking about this particular case NOT ALL pitbulls BTW......


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Suppose this is what your talking about



> Susan wanted to clarify an aspect that is stated earlier in this piece, "the two pit bulls turned from playful and 'nippy' that day into a violent frenzy." The "nippy" terminology was taken from police reports released to the media on April 1st. She doesn't believe she ever said the term "nippy" while being interviewed by police in her hospital room. The word implies bad ownership. Her two dogs were "never nippy," she said. Further, "batting dogs away is _not_ playful,"


The article states an agreement was made between the babysitter and the parents that the child was not to be exposed to the dogs?


> *The agreement between Susan and the boy's parents was that Dax was always to be kept away from the two pit bulls and the dogs kenneled.*


If this is true the baby sitter broke the agreement and exposed the child to the dogs. The child was not acquainted with the dog as they were kept separated.

I'm not making excuses for the dogs. It is a terrible case. But as i said it is usually human negligence at work. Somebody doesn't realize the predator nature of the dog and hasn't control over their dog. Not any dog can act like this but many breeds can exhibit this preying behavior sometime. If the humans supposedly in charge of the dog, don't notice and deal with the issue they are negligent imo. If people actually research dog behavior these kind of situations can be avoided.


----------



## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

MadLab said:


> I'm not making excuses for the dogs. It is a terrible case. But as i said it is usually human negligence at work. Somebody doesn't realize the predator nature of the dog and hasn't control over their dog. Not any dog can act like this but many breeds can exhibit this preying behavior sometime. If the humans supposedly in charge of the dog, don't notice and deal with the issue they are negligent imo. If people actually research dog behavior these kind of situations can be avoided.


Look I agree with you but you have to admit this is a pretty extreme case.....this was not just a quick bite this was a sustained 15 minute mauling of not only the child but the owner.....not many dog owners would accept the possibility of this happening beforehand.
If these dogs do require such stringent ownership then why are they being offered in rescues and such to just the every day dog owner?
If what you are saying is true and that this type of situation can be a normal consequence of just not reading the dogs correctly then really they should not be owned by the average Joe should they??.... which in essence is what BSL is trying to prevent.....breeds that when in the hands of the uneducated can be lethal.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

What happened to the breed in general, one of the best war hero dogs was a APBT, the breed was Americas sweetheart at one point. Now they are banned in different parts of the world and they get a crap rap sheet. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> breeds that when in the hands of the uneducated can be lethal.


As can cars, machinery, etcetc. 



> If these dogs do require such stringent ownership then why are they being offered in rescues and such to just the every day dog owner?


Do GSD's, Akitas, Mastiffs, malamutes, boxers etcetc need a less stringent owner?

All of these dogs need need strict control and management or else the owner is being irresponsible. 



> If what you are saying is true and that this type of situation can be a normal consequence of just not reading the dogs correctly


I do not think this is a normal situation and nor did I imply it was. There are millions of pit bull in the states and very few actually try to kill people. 

If an owner can't control their dog they shouldn't have it. I believe the owner of the pits was seriously at fault for not having her dogs under control. She broke a rule with the owner and the child suffered needlessly. It is a tragic accident but one which could have been avoided with proper management.



> then really they should not be owned by the average Joe should they??.... which in essence is what BSL is trying to prevent


*No generally BSL is breed specific legislation aimed at banning pit bull type dogs from certain areas. It doesn't matter if a person is an experienced handler and trainer. It doesn't matter what the temperament of the pit bull type dog is. The dog is banned because it looks a certain way. *


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> What happened to the breed in general, one of the best war hero dogs was a APBT, the breed was Americas sweetheart at one point.


In some sense i believe that image is a cliche.

People say the pit bull was a nanny breed and totally non human aggressive. But I find this hard to believe. It is romanticizing a dog to be something it is not.

I think a dogs behavior is relevant on it's temperament, living conditions, training and socializing.

Many pit bulls are great pets when looked after properly and understood in depth. Problem is today too many dogs and not enough responsible owners so some are bound to cause issues.

There is a general lack of education out there as to how to look after any dog.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MadLab said:


> Nah, Mine hasn't found her flippers yet. She jumped/fell in by accident and sometimes got booted in by myself. She can swim as any dog can and at 3 is now showing more sign that she is gonna start. Going in up to her neck and starting to float a bit.
> 
> She retrieves a bit. She'd rather run for something and grab it and lie down with it. She doesn't do happy unless she knows people.
> 
> ...


Actual Bull Terrier? And on the other note...APTB= American Staffordshire terrier, AKC and UKC treat the registration differently. Same dog one allows dual registration the other one doesn't ! So..is it a pitt??


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

David Taggart said:


> Though GSD is a potentially agressive dog, I never heard that GSD savaged a child with a reason too little for attack. Mainly it is nipping for pestering, especially when a family dog wants to sleep during the day, or it could be playing and wrestling with a dog, so the dog's resistence was aggravated and led to agressive responce. In no way GSD could be compared to pit bulls or mastiffs. I believe, this mastiff has attacked the girl only because she was snorring in her sleep, and it reminded him a growling. I know that some dogs like bulldogs produce some snorting sounds due to difficulty in breathing which reminds growling, and they are often attacked by other dogs just for that. But, I'm absolutely sure, that no dominant, offensively agressive GSD would do this:
> Mountsorrel dog attack: Lexi Branson - first pictures of the little girl killed by family dog - Mirror Online


For the record it was not a " Dogue De Bordeaux,"

"I wish that the Mirror would get their bloody facts correct about the dog. The dog pictured was not the dog that attacked the child at all. I have a Dogue De Bordeaux as in the picture and they are the most placid dog around kids. I have been yelled at by a woman today saying I should muzzle my dangerous dog all because some idiot reported that it was a Dogue De Bordeaux and not a Bull Dog. Unbelieveable and I am so angry about this. I feel sorry for the child and mother, but this is very bad reporting."


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

People may be quick to pull the trigger, while jogging with a lady I did not know well ( jogging group) we were approached by a rather large black and tan dog, looked like a hound mix. He circle barked us before he headed on his way , his bum was in full wiggle mode and his bark suggested hey!!!!! Hellllo !!!! Rather then being aggressive. Well, she froze up, teared up, and went on a tangent about "just being attacked by a big german shepherd " , I ensured her that it was no attack and that dog was the furthest thing from GSD but she was hysterical at that point yelling about animal control and putting the vicious GSD to sleep. At that point the bubbly hound looking mix was long gone, I can just imagine how many of her friends and family got to hear about "the vicious GSD " that day, how many of her friends and family were left with a bad taste in their mouths about GSD s?, 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Lexi's story is terribly sad. If that is truly the way it happened, I cant think of any reason why that dog went off his rails. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Like others who have posted on this thread, I oppose breed bans and other forms of breed-specific legislation. 

I really don’t think we are going to see breed bans spread. In fact, I think that we are going to see a lot of municipalities and states repeal bans they currently have in place. 

This paper has a lot of good information.
“Pit Bull Bans: The State of Breed-Specific Legislation”
Pit Bull Bans: The State of Breed–Specific Legislation

*Re: State of Breed-Ban Legislation*
Quote:
“Hundreds of municipalities of all sizes and geographic locations throughout the country have adopted BSL. (One of the most comprehensive, up–to–date lists of BSL jurisdictions can be found at www.understand–a–bull.com.) *Still other towns are repealing existing bans*, such as Edwardsville, Kansas, which removed its pit bull ban after the nearby Niko case ended.

In 2009 new statewide BSL bills were introduced in Hawaii, Montana, and Oregon, where there are two BSL bills pending. One would ban “pit bulls” from Oregon unless a person has obtained a permit within 90 days of the bill’s passage; the other would require minimum liability insurance coverage of $1 million for pit bull owners..."

"Interestingly, *12 states have passed laws prohibiting the passage of BSL by local governments*: Florida and Pennsylvania (although bills are currently pending to repeal this prohibition in both states), California, Colorado, Illinois, Maine, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, and Virginia. Like the other 11 states, California has ruled that no specific dog breed mix shall be declared potentially dangerous or vicious as a matter of breed, but it does allow BSL related to mandatory spay/neuter programs, meaning it requires dogs of certain breeds to be “fixed.” The city of Denver has perhaps the most tortured history with BSL Denver passed BSL in 1989, but the Colorado State Legislature outlawed BSL in 2004. Denver later reinstated BSL after the city challenged the state’s BSL prohibition, and a judge ruled that Denver’s BSL could be allowed to stand as a home rule exception..."

*Re: Who opposes Breed Bans and BSL?*
“Quote:
“National animal organizations such as the American Veterinary Medical Association, Humane Society of the United States, Animal Legal Defense Fund, Best Friends Animal Society, American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the American Kennel Club, and the National Animal Control Association all oppose BSL. Otto sums up their position this way: “If the goal is dog–bite prevention, then dogs should be treated as individuals under effective dangerous dog laws and not as part of a breed painted with certain traits that may not be applicable to each dog. By doing so, owners of well–trained, gentle dogs are not punished by a breed ban, while dangerous dogs of all breeds are regulated and may have their day in court to be proven dangerous.”

Note: This has to be one of the few issues in dogdom where all of these groups are in agreement with each other… LOL!

*Re: Is BSL effective?*
Quote:
“Extensive studies of the effectiveness of BSL in reducing the number of persons harmed by dog attacks were done in Spain and Great Britain. B*oth studies concluded that their “dangerous animals acts,” which included pit bull bans, had no effect at all on stopping dog attacks.* The Spanish study further found that the breeds most responsible for bites—both before and after the breed bans—were those breeds not covered by it, primarily German Shepherds and mixed breeds.”

One of the few known instances in which a breed ban’s effectiveness was examined and reported on in the United States occurred in Prince George’s County, Maryland, where a task force was formed in 2003 to look at the effectiveness of its pit bull ban. *The task force concluded that the public’s safety had not improved as a result of the ban, despite the fact that the county had spent more than $250,000 per year to round up and destroy banned dogs. *Finding that other, non–breed–specific laws already on the books covered vicious animal, nuisance, leash, and other public health and safety concerns, the task force recommended repealing the ban.”

[Note: In addition to these studies, it is also interesting to note that the Netherlands and the Province of Ontario have repealed their breed bans because the legislation was found to be ineffective. [See the NCRC link below for the source of that information]

*Re: Options beyond BSL?
*Quote:
“The National Canine Research Council has identified the most common factors found in fatal dog attacks occurring in 2006:

97 percent of the dogs involved were not spayed or neutered.
84 percent of the attacks involved owners who had abused or neglected their dogs, failed to contain their dogs, or failed to properly chain their dogs.
78 percent of the dogs were not kept as pets but as guard, breeding, or yard dogs.”
Quote:
"The ASPCA has proposed a list of solutions for inclusion in breed–neutral laws that hold reckless dog owners accountable for their aggressive animals:

Enhanced enforcement of dog license laws with adequate fees to augment animal control budgets and surcharges on ownership of unaltered dogs to help fund low–cost pet- sterilization programs. High–penalty fees should be imposed on those who fail to license a dog.
Enhanced enforcement of leash/dog–at–large laws, with adequate penalties to supplement animal control funding and to ensure the law is taken seriously.
Dangerous dog laws that are breed neutral and focus on the behavior of the individual dog, with mandated sterilization and microchipping of dogs deemed dangerous and options for mandating muzzling, confinement, adult supervision, training, owner education, and a hearings process with gradually increasing penalties, including euthanasia, in aggravated circumstances such as when a dog causes unjustified injury or simply cannot be controlled. (“Unjustified” typically is taken to mean the dog was not being harmed or provoked by anyone when the attack occurred.)
Laws that hold dog owners financially accountable for failure to adhere to animal control laws, and also hold them civilly and criminally liable for unjustified injuries or damage caused by their dogs.
Laws that prohibit chaining or tethering, coupled with enhanced enforcement of animal cruelty and fighting laws. Studies have shown that chained dogs are an attractive nuisance to children and others who approach them.
Laws that mandate the sterilization of shelter animals and make low–cost sterilization services widely available.
"

[Note: The AVMA paper and the CDC have made similar community-based recommendations, I posted links to those below]


Other interesting sources of information:
From the AVMA via the CDC site:
https://www.avma.org/public/Health/Documents/dogbite.pdf
From the NCRC
Breed-Specific Legislation (BSL) FAQ I NCRC
From the ASPCA:
Breed Specific Legislation | ASPCA
From the HSUS 
Why Breed-Specific Legislation Doesn?t Work : The Humane Society of the United States


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I guarantee there are far less pit bulls in the US than people think. Pit bull means American Pit Bull Terrier, nothing else. The fact it describes a type of dog infuriates me. It is not a "type"... It's a BREED. Same as a GSD. Can we go around calling any dog with pointy ears and a double coat a GSD? Say that "type" of dog started attacking. Would everyone who loves the breed stand around and let the media twist people's thinking to that a GSD can be any any old dog that kind of looks like one? People talk about all of the pit bulls in shelters, but I'd bet money most, almost all of those dogs are mixed and a good portion probably don't have pit bull in them at all. Real pit bulls, papered ones (when the papers are actually legit) are not nearly as easy to get ahold of as the dogs most accept to be pit bulls. American Staffordshire Terriers are not pit bulls.

I try to tell people unless they have papers not to call their dog a pit bull even if it looks like one, because there are a lot of breeds that when mixed with some other breeds look just like a pit. But it isn't. Then the dog bites.... One more dangerous "pit bull" to add to the list. No one says anything about it because it is just accepted that pit bulls are short coated dogs with a brick-like head.

I think I saw a dogsbite.org link in this thread somewhere, that site is garbage and full of misinformation, so I would take anything from there with a grain of salt... They like to make up their own facts and statistics.

I can't stand BSL, I don't agree that GSDs won't be targeted in the future. If "pit bulls" eventually get banned, maybe not immediately but eventually GSDs, rotties, Dobes... they will be next. The same people that couldn't handle their "pit bull" will get another dog they can't handle (like a GSD) and we will have another dog attack pandemic. PEOPLE are the problem!


----------



## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Sarah~ said:


> I guarantee there are far less pit bulls in the US than people think. Pit bull means American Pit Bull Terrier, nothing else. The fact it describes a type of dog infuriates me. It is not a "type"... It's a BREED. Same as a GSD. Can we go around calling any dog with pointy ears and a double coat a GSD? Say that "type" of dog started attacking. Would everyone who loves the breed stand around and let the media twist people's thinking to that a GSD can be any any old dog that kind of looks like one? People talk about all of the pit bulls in shelters, but I'd bet money most, almost all of those dogs are mixed and a good portion probably don't have pit bull in them at all. Real pit bulls, papered ones (when the papers are actually legit) are not nearly as easy to get ahold of as the dogs most accept to be pit bulls. American Staffordshire Terriers are not pit bulls.
> 
> I try to tell people unless they have papers not to call their dog a pit bull even if it looks like one, because there are a lot of breeds that when mixed with some other breeds look just like a pit. But it isn't. Then the dog bites.... One more dangerous "pit bull" to add to the list. No one says anything about it because it is just accepted that pit bulls are short coated dogs with a brick-like head.
> 
> ...


Ummm... if this post is directed at me. I think you mis-read my earlier post. I clearly state in that post that I *oppose* breed bans and BSL. All the information I quoted and linked to support the fact the *breed bans are ineffective*. Maybe you are making reference to another poster... I don't know.


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

LifeofRiley said:


> Ummm... if this post is directed at me. I think you mis-read my earlier post. I clearly state in that post that I *oppose* breed bans and BSL. All the information I quoted and linked to supports the fact the breed bans are ineffective. Maybe you are making reference to another poster... I don't know.


I wasn't referring to anyone, sorry I wasn't clear, my bad. I was speaking in general


----------



## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Sarah~ said:


> I wasn't referring to anyone, sorry I wasn't clear, my bad. I was speaking in general


Sorry, I am obviously the one who is being hyper-sensitive tonight 

Another interesting tidbit that builds on your thoughts about perception issues:

"A 2008 report on media bias by the National Canine Research Council (available on their website at http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dog-bites/dog-bites-and-the-media/audience-interest) compared the type of media coverage given for dog attacks that occurred during a four–day period in August 2007 with intriguing results:

On day one, a Labrador mix attacked an elderly man, sending him to the hospital. News stories of his attack appeared in one article in the local paper.

On day two, a mixed–breed dog fatally injured a child. The local paper ran two stories.

On day three, a mixed–breed dog attacked a child, sending him to the hospital. One article ran in the local paper.

On day four, two pit bulls that broke off their chains attacked a woman trying to protect her small dog. She was hospitalized. Her dog was uninjured. This attack was reported in more than 230 articles in national and international newspapers and on the major cable news networks.

It is not a stretch to see how such news coverage could influence calls for breed bans from the frightened public and its legislators."

Note: this is from the same paper I posted at the start of the other thread.


----------



## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> You know what ive noticed,
> 
> In all the bully dog attacked my baby news i see, they always show the picture of the dog who attacked, and the dog is always muscled out wearing a big huge spike collar.
> 
> When i see some people put those big spiked collars on their bully breed dog they are almost always trying to portray the worst. So, i have to wonder the mentality that went into raising the dog in the first place.


Couldn't agree more!!! It's those that are led by their egos and masculinity complexes that give the 'tougher' breeds a bad name. Thugged out guys wanting huge muscular dogs to brag about, then the dog ends up killing a small child, or another animal. These types have no clue about true control over the dog and what obedience really is.


----------

