# Daisy may have DM ,questions



## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

OK I was told last night Daisy may have DM. She has some issues in the hip area that make her vet think she has lost some mobility ,her back paws are curling and she drags her back paws a few times a week. She also lost control of her bowels while she was try to get up from the floor. Her hips appeared to be out of position and she needed help . This happened twice in 24 hrs both times while we were helping her get up. She is on Dasuquin,2 aday. Due to her episode of pancreatitis he does not want to use anti inflamatories unless he has to. We discussed she doent appear to be in pain. she is alert and has an appetite for home cooked or kibble if necessary. He wants her to be get lots of things she wants and avoid stairs. Thank god we are moving no steps for Miss Daisy there. What else can I do? She gave everybody kisses last night and was only half as nervous as she usually is at the vets.He also said that her weight is very good 65lbs and that is helping her cope better. I was wondering are there any herbal remedies that help movement and decrease pain that will be ok for a senior girl who had an episode of pancreatitis 7 months ago ? It could be many things and he said that continued testing might give a more complete answer but he didnt think based on her age that there were alot of options.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am sorry to hear this.
What testing has he done? How quickly did it come about?

Have you sent in the genetic test for it (it is cheaper and just as fast if you do it through OFA than if you pay the vet to send in a blood draw)?
Has he tried prednisone or done any x-rays -- If it is injury, prednisone may help

When Grim developed rear leg wobbliness I found out there are all kinds of things it could be.

*DM* (available genetic test but it is somewhat controversial as to whether they are testing the right genetic marker)
*Spinal Stroke (FCE)* typically a sudden injury displaying unilaterally (don't know how they diagnose - they ruled that out for us though)
*Tumor* (myelogram or MRI for defiitive diagnosis)
*Disc Compression* (that is what we think Grim had) (need myelogram of MRI for defninitve diagnosis)
*Arthritis* / Spondylosis (x rays will tell that one and that is what caused problems for Linus another GSD I had) 
*Tick Diseases* - Can cause chronic neurological issues and there are many emerging issues. There are diagnostic tick panels.

We never walked away with a definitive diagnosis for Grim and even with a DM test result of "carrier" the vet still thinks it "could be" DM. That said, we are doing acupuncture and giving some of the supplements recommend by Dr Clemmons (not all-google Jack Flash DM - as well as some Oriental Medicines given by a holistic vet.

Unfortunately the diagnosis of DM comes about when everything else is elminated.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks Joycoyn. Ill explore the testing w/ OFA. He hasnt done any testing he's based it on the her curling her toes,the slowly( over a two to three month period) increasing weakness in her back legs and her bowel incontience. She could get into the truck w/ out a ramp in October her last check up.She is very alert but has episodes where she appears confused and lost. After looking at video from the Chesapeake bay retrievers I was pretty upset. Daisy does not have any movement like that. She based on past GI issues and her epiode w/ pancreatitis in August of 2011may not be able to tolerate anti inflamatories. I'm going to talk to her old vet and my neighbor who is a vet iver the weekend.He didnt mention steroids.No e rays since last summer that showed some dyplacia in the hip ,thinking it was on the right.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The test is inexpensive enough ....... the onset of several months though is typical with DM - that page has a lot of information and links on it.

Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group - Jack Flash's Homepage


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I just wanted to say I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.
It does sound like DM vs. FCE or any of the others, unfortunately 
:hugs:


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Something like this might come in handy. The ones that are one piece work really well, that's the kind I used for Dakota. (I can't find it online with a quick search, can't remember what it was called.) 

Guardian Gear Lift & Lead 4-In-1 Dog Harness

Keeping good thoughts for Miss Daisy.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks Everybody!

White Shepherd,The link to 4:1 harness Im ordering it.Daisy says thank you and she knows she has lots of support.

MSVETTE: Thanks ,Last night I spent several hours trying to research. Everything sounds like it could be what she has and then it all sounds like DM.

I hope w/ the Dasquinn and a one level house and lots of EILIF,Daisy will have a golden retirement w/ no more sitting for treats.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> I was wondering are there any herbal remedies that help movement and decrease pain that will be ok for a senior girl who had an episode of pancreatitis 7 months ago ? It could be many things and he said that continued testing might give a more complete answer but he didnt think based on her age that there were alot of options.


Sorry to hear about this. We lost Shadow to DM just before Thanksgiving. I don't know of any herbals, but we did find Vitamine E, that our vet recommended, seemed to help.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

I'm sorry you and Daisy are going through this. 

Our old GSD had DM about 6/7 years ago. She remained reasonably active for 2/3 years - just needed help sometimes getting up steps. We then got her a wheelchair - she loved that.

All best wishes 
_________________
Sue


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group - Jack Flash's Homepage


That site really helped me out when my dog got DM. 

It does sound like your dog might have DM. I'm very sorry. Hugs to you. I know how hard it is to see your dog with this terrible disease.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

Sorry to hear about daisy


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

Loneforce said:


> Sorry to hear about daisy


Me too! 
Positive thoughts and prayers coming your way. :angel:


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks everybody.Pattycakes Ive read Jack Flashes page and some of the other sites.It gave alot of information.Will order the harness today or tommorrow. I keep hoping and praying its arthritis or some thing else. Daisy has always beat everything even when they said she wouldnt.
Thanks Loneforce and GSDLover II,Daisy is up and about moving well and trying to convince us its time for her scrambed eggs.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

I just added DrCpage to my favorite's bar. Looking at the diet ,we can do that. We can feed the fish oil and mussels /sardines. The excercise we are almost there but not quite. She cant do NSAID's due to her history so Ill go to the health store tommorrow.His diet page cant hurt right? There is alot of info but no real answers but my god the GSD has so many health issues ,some Id never heard of. DM is an auto-immune diseasde. Daisy had parvo which I saw as a question on one of the surveys. 
So here is my plan :
Return to home cooked w/ addition of Tofu soybean
Use ginger,mustard stuff on food and get a solid regimen of excercise and look for stuff to make her life easier and I dont know .
As Im reading this stuff really think Dodger had DM but its not known for lab/pitbulls right?


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

How is Miss Daisy doing?


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

She's ok. I still need to get her tested. We are feeding sardines and fish oil w/ her food and getting alot more home cooked. She could guilt me always into home cooked. We've been trying to get her to execise more and hopefully get her out to the future new house to walk the property. She has spent the last two days teasing her brother and being daisy monster.. I have to say I keep praying its just hip dysplacia. She's on her Dasquinn and doesnt refuse it, she is a known pill/ med cheeker. She played outside yesterday and took the ball from Lucky on throws.Daisy is my first dog that is mine and i had from a puppy. We will switch to revolution as heartgard and other HW can increase the immune response. Didnt realize DM is a autoimmune disorder.


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## Fade2Black (Apr 30, 2012)

If it is DM. Ask your vet about amicar. It didn't help my last GS Genesis who had DM. But in some cases the drug can slow or even nearly stop the progression of the disease. Although there is only about a 20% chance of the drug working it's worth at least trying.....


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

My dog showed dramatic improvement with stem cell treatment. I posted videos in the health section.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks Fade2Black. Ill ask him this week about amicar. We were looking at Tramadol.She shows no pain but if we slow the progression down tha's what we want..When I take Lucky in for his checkup Ill ask.. She has been active the past couple days. She ran the fence line as the neighbors cattle fence was put up ,everybody talked to her and she ran for over an hour and then came in got onher loveset w/ a pillow and slept like a rock. She also takled her brother while he was airborne. She can still be Attila the hound.
Rebel I need to watch those videos. Thank You.


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

Prayers for Miss Daisy.:angel:


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## Fade2Black (Apr 30, 2012)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Thanks Fade2Black. Ill ask him this week about amicar. We were looking at Tramadol.She shows no pain but if we slow the progression down tha's what we want..When I take Lucky in for his checkup Ill ask.. She has been active the past couple days. She ran the fence line as the neighbors cattle fence was put up ,everybody talked to her and she ran for over an hour and then came in got onher loveset w/ a pillow and slept like a rock. She also takled her brother while he was airborne. She can still be Attila the hound.
> Rebel I need to watch those videos. Thank You.



I hope it isn't DM. Best of luck....

The amicar isn't a pain medication. Its actually a human drug used to stop bleeding in the brain (or was 10 years ago)......

I had to search for a pharmacist who carried it. When I found one he said who's this for because its used to treat bleeding conditions in the brain (humans). I said it's for my dog. I am a member of the best friends animal sanctuary. I called them and talked to one of their vets about the amicar. She told me yes it was a drug for slowing the progression. There was only a 20% chance that it works though. It was expensive around $270 a month. That was 10 years ago so it's probably more now......

Found this on line http://www.petsurgery.com/degenerativemyelopathy.html. Looks like amicar is given in bigger doses then Genesis got. Aminocaproic acid (Amicar) may prevent progression or result in clinical remission of degenerative myelopathy in over 15 to 20% of patients. It is given orally at 500 mg every eight hours (three times daily). Since the pill form of Amicar has become expensive, we recommend giving aminocaproic acid as a solution using the generic product. The aminocaproic acid can be mixed with a vitamin/mineral supplement to provide a palatable solution for oral usage. The only side effects that have been attributed to aminocaproic acid have been occasional gastrointestinal irritation. This presents a problem in only a few patients, usually those with preexisting gastrointestinal problems. In some dogs, vitamin supplements can cause excessive flatulence, necessitating that they receive the aminocaproic acid solution without the vitamin/mineral supplement.

Thanx Much RebelGSD for those DM vids.....


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Im still hoping its not DM and we havent really been able to rule anything out. She has Hip Dysplacia . We will explore amicar Lucky goes to the vet next thursday. Ill check w/ our vet then.I see no crossing of her back legs,she rights her back paws quickly. However this winter I saw her dragging her toes.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

I hope that it's not. Best of luck to you, and I hope you find answers that comfort and satisfy you.


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## GSDMUM (Aug 18, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Thanks Fade2Black. Ill ask him this week about amicar. We were looking at Tramadol.She shows no pain but if we slow the progression down tha's what we want..When I take Lucky in for his checkup Ill ask.. She has been active the past couple days. She ran the fence line as the neighbors cattle fence was put up ,everybody talked to her and she ran for over an hour and then came in got onher loveset w/ a pillow and slept like a rock. She also takled her brother while he was airborne. She can still be Attila the hound.
> Rebel I need to watch those videos. Thank You.


I'm so sorry to hear that your dog possibly has DM. My Frisco does and he is 11 now. He has had it for about 3 years now and is a trooper. It had waxed and waned for a while but is progressively worse, He has just started losing his bowel control on and off. Our vet started him on Acetylcystine and Aminocaproic acid which is made in a compounding Pharmacy in Florida. It is recommended in Dr. Clemmons protocol. It's not proven but I do think it has helped it stay level for a good year. They also compounded the useful fish oils and other essential oils suggested by him.

He still plays with our young GSD but we give him Tramadol also because of his hip dysplasia. He also has Inflammatory Bowel disease. He is a love and has such a joy for life. I would take him all over again, he is so special. We did get a waggin wheels cart for him and will start using it soon. The vet told us to let him walk as long as he can and only after he can;t anymore to use the cart.


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN (Apr 8, 2011)

Sending Daisy BIG hugs and doggy licks from Nero.xx


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks everybody. Still trying to figure out the best way to help her.


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN (Apr 8, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Thanks everybody. Still trying to figure out the best way to help her.


I suppose it is best to go with what your vet would recommend, all you can do is keep her comfortable and show her lots and lots of love. (which I'm sure you do anyway) How is daisy apart from her troubles..? Oh and not forgetting Nero's mate Lucky...


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

CLARKE-DUNCAN said:


> I suppose it is best to go with what your vet would recommend, all you can do is keep her comfortable and show her lots and lots of love. (which I'm sure you do anyway) How is daisy apart from her troubles..? Oh and not forgetting Nero's mate Lucky...


Daisy is still the diva of the house. Still wrecking havoc where she can!She teases her brother however after puupy wrestling and playing chase the brother she takes a nap on her loveseat w/ her blankie and pillow. Lucky is as always ball crazy and wishing for there to be no more thunder and lighting. Lucky is still a mama's boy. Both say hi to Nero and send wishes for a great summer!


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN (Apr 8, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Daisy is still the diva of the house. Still wrecking havoc where she can!She teases her brother however after puupy wrestling and playing chase the brother she takes a nap on her loveseat w/ her blankie and pillow. Lucky is as always ball crazy and wishing for there to be no more thunder and lighting. Lucky is still a mama's boy. Both say hi to Nero and send wishes for a great summer!


We haven't had a bad winter really, not as bad as two years ago when there was snow on the ground for about two weeks, it was really fun until it all turned into ice. Really unusual for the UK to have such a lot of snow. Nero loved it at first then I think he began to hate it as I couldn't get him out much... Nero is a little bit of a lead puller... So it was difficult for both of us to balance on feet and paws haha.

We are having a rather weird spring, it has been colder than usual and the tree's are taking forever to bloom.. We hope to have a decent summer, we might try the paddle pool again this year! I'm sure summer will help daisy out, Nero loves to bask in the sun, good for their muscles and joints.. We all get aches and pains when the cold arrives... But then feel great when the summer comes and we have long warm sunny days. Yep the boys never seem to grow up... Nero is 9yrs in June and he just doesn't want to slow down! (not that I'm complaining) Nero loves chase, shame we don't live in the same country for them to meet and have a game... (would be mayhem)


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

CLARKE-DUNCAN said:


> We haven't had a bad winter really, not as bad as two years ago when there was snow on the ground for about two weeks, it was really fun until it all turned into ice. Really unusual for the UK to have such a lot of snow. Nero loved it at first then I think he began to hate it as I couldn't get him out much... Nero is a little bit of a lead puller... So it was difficult for both of us to balance on feet and paws haha.
> 
> We are having a rather weird spring, it has been colder than usual and the tree's are taking forever to bloom.. We hope to have a decent summer, we might try the paddle pool again this year! I'm sure summer will help daisy out, Nero loves to bask in the sun, good for their muscles and joints.. We all get aches and pains when the cold arrives... But then feel great when the summer comes and we have long warm sunny days. Yep the boys never seem to grow up... Nero is 9yrs in June and he just doesn't want to slow down! (not that I'm complaining) Nero loves chase, shame we don't live in the same country for them to meet and have a game... (would be mayhem)


That would be fun. Daisy loves younger boys and Lucky likes to chase. Glad to hear Nero is still his charming and spirited self.


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