# Do females have less drive than males?



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I was recently told that if you want a female dog, then make sure the dam was breed to a very strong sire, because the nature of being a female dog reduces some drive. This is really interesting to me, as I eventually want a drivey female.

Is there truth in that statement? Do females tend to show less drive than males? Are "drivey" females the way they are on account of a very strong sire?

(Note- I _know_ there are different types of drive. I'm talking about drive in general here.)


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

:rofl: You can come ask Tara and Gala. :rofl: NOT so!!!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> :rofl: You can come ask Tara and Gala. :rofl: NOT so!!!


Yeah, but are Tara and Gala's sires very strong/drivey males? If so, THAT would be quite interesting. Does Tara or Gala get their drive from their sire or dam? (Or maybe both?)


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Not in our house.  Harley's (male) is good but Annie's is over the top.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

What have you seen in the dogs you have encountered?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

There are exceptions to the rule of course. There are nice females that can perform the way you want. But in general I've been told that I should get a male if I want to do sport. When I decide to do schh competitively, I will get a working male, because that gives me the best shot of doing well. 

Also think of it this way. In general, females are kept back by a breeder so that she can be bred later on. You keep females for breeding and males for sport. Once in a blue moon, you might luck out and keep a breed worthy male. 

But in general, breeders keep pick females and sell the rest. So then you wait around until the female is 2, get her titled to a 1 asap, slap a minimal show rating on her, breed survey and then get her bred. That's the whole point of keeping females for most breeders - to use as breeding females for the next generation. So over time, you are breeding for (I don't want to say "weaker" females), but the females are not put through the same ringer the males are because time is of the essence with breeding females. Especially in larger, commercial type kennel operations. Males need to be titled up to a 3 and need to survive in a competitive stud dog world so they tend to be "more" dog. Males have to fight a lot more to get to the top, whereas nearly any female can be bred without too much forethought. But the stud dog pool is competitive and you need the dog to "bring the power". Also factor in that females have heat cycles, and need to take time off for breeding/litters/whelp. Females just don't have the opportunity, most of the time, to reach the level of most males. I, too, have heard the line "males bring power/drive/aggression while females are supposed to attenuate/balance the drives". To me, that doesn't make much sense. Both female and male should possess what I wish to pass on. I don't like relying too heavily on the male for all aspects my female is supposedly lacking. I want to prove my female just as I prove my male. I don't like that females are sometimes held to a "lower" standard than males.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

cliffson1 said:


> What have you seen in the dogs you have encountered?


Well, remember Cliff- I'm only just now starting this journey of looking at the dogs. So far, I've only met two females, and one wasn't working (just a two year old pup hanging out). 

Furious vom Wolfstraum is the only WL female I've met in person and watched work. I loved Furious's drive- certainly not lacking. I've also met her brother, Fyurie, who I thought had equal (if not less) drive. But hard to compare what I see on a Schutzhund field (Furious) with what I see in a flyball race (Fyurie)... So those are dogs that I've met IN PERSON and WATCHED work. From my untrained eye, they both had _at least_ equal drive. 

However, that doesn't answer my question because I don't know anything about the Wolfstraum F litter's sire: ****** von der Mohnwiese and so I don't know that I have enough info to make a decision on what I've seen in person. Maybe ****** is ultra awesome, and the matching of him to Bianka von Spitzbubezwinger is exact the kind of strong sire needed to produce females with drive.

(Sorry Lee- didn't mean to drag your dogs into this. Just trying to answer the question of what I've personally seen...)


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

qbchottu said:


> So over time, you are breeding for (I don't want to say "weaker" females), but the females are not put through the same ringer the males are because time is of the essence with breeding females. Especially in larger, commercial type kennel operations. Males need to be titled up to a 3 and need to survive in a competitive stud dog world so they tend to be "more" dog. Males have to fight a lot more to get to the top, whereas nearly any female can be bred without too much forethought. But the stud dog pool is competitive and you need the dog to "bring the power".


Yeah, but the problem I have with what you posted is that you are essentially saying that the breeders are _definitively_ breeding stronger males, but not necessarily females. If the breeders have this kind of control (create strong males, not females) then certainly a breeding could be planned to create strong females as well...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Most every female I see at training has plenty of drive/tenacity and power. They are from different sires or sometimes litter-mates. Some are different lines completely, but they all can be described as having strong drive(prey,pack, hunt, fight).
I think the reason many choose males for working or sport is so they don't have to deal with heat cycles or hormones. Of course spaying is an option, but some females may later be bred.
It seems in agility, more females are involved in that sport due to structure(and they have plenty of drive too!).


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm not saying you don't want to create strong females - just that females are not put through the same gauntlet that males are usually put through. If a strong female comes out of the breeding incidentally, that is perfect and fine. But you are selecting females for breeding so they will NOT be put through the same process as males (most of the time). So it is more likely that moderate/soft drives in females will exist whereas males tend to be selected for "hardiness, drive and power" (I assume you are talking about working dogs here).


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

No, at least not in our club. Lisa for example has a strong line of bitches and they are as drivey and feisty as any other dogs male or female. 

The difference with bitches and competing in sport is that you have to deal with heat cycles. Most people do not want to spay before 8 months and don't want to deal with cycles interrupting training. Now at least in SchH you can train and compete with a bitch in heat but some of them aren't really the same when they're hormonal like that. In many other sports you cannot compete.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I see what you're saying, qbchottu. Thanks!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Liesje said:


> No, at least not in our club. Lisa for example has a strong line of bitches and they are as drivey and feisty as any other dogs male or female.


Right, right... yes, but help me understand if I'm asking the wrong question. *WHY* are those bitches as drivey and feisty as any other? Is it due to strong sires?? Or is that just a myth?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

It is because of Lisa's breeding program and her particular goals. Lisa has a (what I call) smaller scale, focused breeding program. She does not go through the alphabet 2x a year and has litters when it is necessary. She breeds to keep and selects the best for her standard. She keeps strong females because she wants STRONG dogs that carry her line and adhere to her goals. 

This is NOT the case with most breeders, especially large commercial style breeders. This is not a SL or WL thing; it is a general breed thing. Think about all the kennels you know that churn out litter after litter. Are there really so many "breed-worthy" litters? No. It's for profit. And it's easy to keep a pick female out of every one of these litters, send her off to a trainer to get her the minimal certifications and breed her until she cannot produce anymore. There are kennels out there that will title and work a female the very bare minimum at age 2. Then this bitch will be bred until she can't even walk anymore. This happens over and over - in many of those famous and "reputable" kennels. So think about what you create. Your females are NOT tested and vetted like your males because *most* kennels will keep a few males (if any) and have lots of females that you have the freedom to breed to anyone you like.

Lisa has strong and feisty females because that is what she works toward and what she selects for. There are dud females out there because to many breeders, it does not matter that the female is softer or not as accomplished because in their minds, the male will make up for anything the female lacks. Of course, the problem is that you don't get to pick and choose what traits the female or male passes on. It does catch up to you sooner or later.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

wildo said:


> Right, right... yes, but help me understand if I'm asking the wrong question. *WHY* are those bitches as drivey and feisty as any other? Is it due to strong sires?? Or is that just a myth?


Well you'd have to ask Lisa but I think it's both. I don't want to speak for her but I don't get the impression that she's breed a so-so female thinking the sire is going to improve the drive and temperament of the litter. She trains and titles female dogs so she knows what makes a good bitch and what sires will *compliment* her lines. It's not about improving a good bitch but finding a male that's good enough to maintain that bitch line, lol.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> This is NOT the case with most breeders, especially large commercial style breeders. This is not a SL or WL thing; it is a general breed thing. Think about all the kennels you know that churn out litter after litter. Are there really so many "breed-worthy" litters? No. It's for profit. And it's easy to keep a pick female out of every one of these litters, send her off to a trainer to get her the minimal certifications and breed her until she cannot produce anymore. There are kennels out there that will title and work a female the very bare minimum at age 2. Then this bitch will be bred until she can't even walk anymore. This happens over and over - in many of those famous and "reputable" kennels. So think about what you create. Your females are NOT tested and vetted like your males because *most* kennels will keep a few males (if any) and have lots of females that you have *the freedom* to breed to anyone you like.


And thankfully we have the freedom to purchase from any kennel we want! The smaller hobby breeder would be my choice every time!


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

My female is from a Sch 3 female-the male was also Sch3-wondering why her drive would be due more to a strong sire than a strong dam-Just curious-Can you breed a dog till it can't walk anymore?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Liesje said:


> It's not about improving a good bitch but finding a male that's good enough to maintain that bitch line, lol.


Yes this is crucial. Most breeders are too short-sighted to recognize this. They ONLY want to keep females as potential brood bitches later on - regardless of what the female actually possesses. I have seen weak bitches kept, excused in spite of being washouts, titled to the bare minimum and bred JUST because the breeder kept it. It's sad but weak females are excused left and right because ANY female can be bred. 

Think of how litters are advertised. You immediately call attention to your fantastic stud male and advertise your dam's sire (she is the daughter of so and so WUSV champ or this and that VA Sieger). Females are not what gets people excited about your litter. Everyone wants to know who studded the litter. Males are generally the draw to your litter - not your females. Sad, but true :/


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Liesje said:


> It's not about improving a good bitch but finding a male that's good enough to maintain that bitch line, lol.


If I were a breeder, this would absolutely be my train of thought.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

It takes strong dogs to produce strong dogs. If either parent is weak, be it sire or dam, chances are at least some of the pups will be too no matter how strong the other is. Some people are not as demanding on the quality of the female as they are the male, and yes many breeders will take a weak female to a great male, hoping he'll fix everything. It really just doesn't work that way. But there are just as many sub-par males out there as there are females, they just don't tend to be bred as much because there are a lot of better studs available. If corners are going to get cut, it will most often be with the female. 

But that comes down to individual dogs and individual breeding choices. The idea that a female will have less drive just because she is female is ridiculous. Yes, males will tend to have more physical power and more active aggression due to simple biology... something that is seen across most species as some of those traits are closely linked to male hormones. But when it comes to drive in general, neither gender inherently has more than the other.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Chris Wild said:


> There are just as many sub-par males out there as there are females, they just don't tend to be bred as much because there are a lot of better studs available. *If corners are going to get cut, it will most often be with the female. *


:thumbup: I think this has more to do with it than anything. 

But I do believe there is something to the idea that testosterone is an aggressive/drivey hormone that helps give an edge when doing sport/work. They are also larger, bring the aggression and are fun to work. 

To the breeders or brokers that sell to PD, how many requests do you get for males vs. females? Will PD take females? Would be great to get Renee Utley's feedback on this topic


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Not mine either!


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## german shepherd 1600 (Sep 28, 2012)

I have never bred dogs before but to me its just common sense to breed strong males AND strong females to produce quality puppies .
The female is just as important as the male in a good breeding program .


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

It takes two to tango. Genes come from both parents. If someone doesn't think females are as drivey as males, they need to start hanging around better females


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

:rofl:

No way.....drive is drive and it is bred .....the problem being that so many females used for breeding are just not strong females....to get a strong female - you have to breed strong females.....Basha and Csabre are extremely drivy females, and Csabre is as hard a female as I have ever seen.


Lee


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

qbchottu said:


> Will PD take females?


I can't say I have ever seen a military or pd female, but I think that has more to do with heat cycles than drive or aggression.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks everyone for the info!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

There are some females doing police work. I've known a couple. I've also known several doing sport or in breeding programs that would be perfectly capable of police work if given the chance. They aren't as common as males due to many factors. Some related to the dog (heat cycles, smaller size, sometimes less aggression) and some related to the people ("I want a macho manly dog, not a GIRL dog!") 

Also, from a breeder's perspective, I'd rather have a female with the temperament suitable for K9 work being in the whelping box somewhere than working the street. Males can typically work and breed, be it real work or sport. After all breeding for them takes half an hour, not months of down time. With females it is much more difficult to accomplish both, even more so with real work than with sport.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Just from a pet owner point of view, I have always found my females more drivey and intense than the males. All are spay/neuter.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Ok Willy - just so you know....Errow is also from teh same dam as Furi and Fyurie....and he is very very very driven.....Basha is a super drivy female...very strong in bitework too....I don't think she produced any pups with low drives.....all are ball crazy (prey - play drive)....and the next generation from Basha is also very strong and high drive - the High Protection dog at the MidEast Regional was an IPO 2 daughter of Furious....the 3rd place dog (tie) at the 2012 Working Dog Championship was a son of Elsa, a daughter of Basha, owned by Marsha Seck (board member)...Strong, drivy females produce strong drivy females....

A daugher of Furi, full sister to Ava, went to a Narcotics Program in Canada....


Lee


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Yep- I did know that about Errow's shared mother with the F litter. (I checked their pedigrees Friday night as a refresher prior to seeing them on Sunday.) I used Furious and Fyurie as my example earlier in the thread since they are brother/sister and seem, as far as I can tell, at least equal in drive. I didn't mention Errow earlier because while I knew he had the same dam, I didn't have a female to compare him to like I did with Fyurie/Furious.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

What everyone else says makes sense: High-drive dogs beget high-drive dogs. If one dog is weak, be it male or female, they can pass on that weakness. And for a myriad of reasons, people are less picky about the female than they are about the male, so if there is weakness, it probably comes from a weak bitch. But not simply because she is female.

Honestly, I don't think drive level is determined by sex at the genetic level. If you could measure drive, let's say in one litter you have one pup with 5 "units" of drive, another with 6 units of drive, another with 7 units, another with 5. Is the number of "units" determined by sex? I don't think so. Either male or female could inherit equal drive. I think where the difference comes in is HORMONES.

Hormones, particularly the androgens like testosterone, are known to increase aggression, amongst other things. This gives males an "edge" over females in certain departments, but it's due to the testosterone changing the body and brain, not to the XY chromosome. Am I making sense? IMO, Dogs are born with drive, which is determined by genetics, but it is not linked to the X and Y chromosomes.

To be honest, I have not seen a difference in drive level between males and females, but I can see a difference between bloodlines. Further, I can see a difference between intact males and neutered males. It's not necessarily that neutered males have any less drive, but there is a different intensity, a different "vibe" to it when the dog is intact. This is why most folks who work their dogs prefer not to neuter.

I have not seen a difference between spayed females and intact females... again leading me to think that drive is affected by testosterone, and not by genetic sex.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

You should meet Zefra.......... that is all I am saying..


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I have seen plenty of females with just as much drive as males. I don't think there's a difference.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

It's all about genetics, not about the sex of the dog.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

This little female isn't two years old yet. I've seen her work a few times and I was blown away. I think she's awesome! 

Hava van Gogh Protection - YouTube


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I have Katya and her mother, and have been around the sire. Both females have more prey drive from what I have seen. They are both off the charts prey drivey though.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I come from the horse and cattle world where the best old time breeders knew that while the male may have the most influence on the breed the female is the foundation of a breeding program. Great males come from great females and great females come from great females. There are not more great females because many breeders treat the bitch as an oven and expect the male to give them what they want.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Keeping drive constant, strength/power will almost always favor the male.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

One thing that it sounds like people are conflating in this thread is "strength" and drive," that to be a strong female (or dog), the dog must be very high drive. That's not quite true. Strength/hardness/courage is not the same thing as drive!

I think it's very easy to add drive to a litter, but it can be very hard to add strength, power, or courage. 

Now, high drive tends to allow for easier expression of that strength, especially in a schutzhund/training situation.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I'll echo what others have said--female and male makes no difference to drive level.

I do believe that I want to see all the drive I want in the female pup at 8 weeks, but I'm more willing to trust that the male pup will grow into more drive, so I don't mind if I just see flashes of the drive from a male pup at 8 weeks. The females seem to have more active drives at that age--the males seem to be busy growing and don't always look like hot stuff at 8 weeks. Additionally, the confidence a male develops as he grows and his hormones come into play will add more power to most everything the dog does.

One final point, the best, strongest, hardest females all too often are very bad mothers or very hard to breed and get pregnant--or keep pregnant. Perhaps these are females with higher levels of testosterone--adding to their strength but making it harder to breed them. This isn't universal, but I've seen enough cases that it's something to watch for.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

BlackthornGSD said:


> One final point, the best, strongest, hardest females all too often are very bad mothers or very hard to breed and get pregnant--or keep pregnant. Perhaps these are females with higher levels of testosterone--adding to their strength but making it harder to breed them. This isn't universal, but I've seen enough cases that it's something to watch for.


That is an interesting point Christine. I coincidentally was talking to a breeder about this last weekend. He also said from his experience (both SL, WL and other tough breeds like Rotties, Dobies etc), the hyper masculine, androgenized, hard, sharp females could not be bred and even bred, they were not good mothers. He gave an example of a super tough female that went multiple schh3, lifted her leg and would take you out if she had half a reason, but he could NEVER get a litter out of her, even sedated and with help. I would be very interested in having a study of these type of females and their levels of testosterone/estrogen/adrenergic hormones. 

He also made a point that we might call a female soft, but try to mess with her pups and see how soon she takes your arm off. So that made me think about us as humans. The men go out, fight wars and hunt bear. We call them "tough". But how many stories have we heard of women lifting a car off their child or defending their children to the death? Isn't that "tough" as well? Both genders have their triggers - perhaps for the female, we are focusing on the wrong triggers to point at when we call a dog hard or tough. To me, there is just as much value in a bitch that will easily whelp her pups without outside interference, care for them with compassion, impart valuable knowledge to them, raise them well and produce strong pups as there is in a "tough" female that will be quick to the sleeve with a machine gun bark. 

But I will agree that females lack the same "oomph" needed for sport and work. Otherwise, why do we have so few females in PD and high level sport? I don't buy the heat cycles thing. If both genders were truly equal at the sport or work level, the distribution should be relatively balanced. But it is most certainly not.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I knew a great working female--from very good bloodlines--Pike daughter out of a Gotthilf vd Kine daughter, IIRC. She was very, very drivey, hard, and aggressive in protection. She got pregnant just fine--but she wanted to kill her puppies out of prey drive. Had to be muzzled and held down to let the pups nurse and her owner ended up raising the puppies by hand, mostly.

Another female I knew, very strong, intensely strong drive, thick bodied, huge head--a Fero daughter out of Tiekerhook lines--she could be bred naturally, no problem, and she was good mom--but she would only have 1-3 pups per litter. 

In contrast, my Xita absolutely will not let a stranger come near her whelping box with newborn puppies--. Even when they are older, she is protective--and if she likes you (a friend of mine, say), once she's decided there's been enough petting, she will put herself between you and the puppy. She gives the "hug of doom"--she gets in your face, puts her chest against yours, and hooks her neck around yours--and you are not permitted to re-approach the pups. She's not high drive--medium/low, I'd say--and she's not a hard dog in the typical sense--but she's absolutely not a weak dog. 

To go back to your point, I agree--it's not just heat cycles. The testosterone and competitive nature of the male dogs give them an edge in many of the tasks that require a dog who has to fight for real in a "useful" capacity as a service dog. And, as you point out, the bitch's strengths are to guard home and whelping box--their strength, the things they find worth fighting for--are there. Different motivations biologically, evolutionarily. 

Still, there are some very strong females out there who are good moms--it's not impossible, just uncommon.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

BlackthornGSD said:


> One thing that it sounds like people are conflating in this thread is "strength" and drive," that to be a strong female (or dog), the dog must be very high drive. That's not quite true. Strength/hardness/courage is not the same thing as drive!


Agreed. I think drive can help a weaker dog get through a problem, so in that sense, sometimes drive might *hide* weakness to a certain point. Or looking at it another way, you could say that drive can enhance courage and strength.



BlackthornGSD said:


> One final point, the best, strongest, hardest females all too often are very bad mothers or very hard to breed and get pregnant--or keep pregnant. Perhaps these are females with higher levels of testosterone--adding to their strength but making it harder to breed them. This isn't universal, but I've seen enough cases that it's something to watch for.


Yes, I think this has actually been studied. When in the uterus, a female pup in between two male pups has the potential to become "androgenized" from being exposed to the hormones of her brothers. Such females are born with more male characteristics and behavior than their normal sisters.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Such BS! Not sure I can add anything, but the bottom line is the boys have the size and presence to be out there competing at the top levels. Girls stay home and have babies. Sad, but true. A breeding female will be out quite a bit of her competition life having babies. And it's not strength for the individual it's strength related to size. The bottom line is a 64 pound female isn't going to have the same impact in protection as an 83 pound male. 

Interestingly enough, a female just won "helper's choice" at the NE Regionals. But the woman who owns her is a breeder who only has 1 female at a time she competes. For her it's own and compete your girl to the max...not own your girl and get the bare minimum to be considered a "reputable" breeder.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

This is an interesting topic. I started a thread a few months ago along the same lines. Here is a link to the thread;
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...39-does-anyone-have-video-strong-females.html


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Christine


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I've often wondered how often the situation of strong, masculine females not being good mothers actually happens and how much is essentially an old wives tale.

We heard this a lot regarding our female, Raven, from vets, SchH people, other breeders. She is very much a "butch bitch" both physically and especially in the work. One big name SchH competitor tried to use the "she's got too much testosterone, you won't be able to breed her" angle as part of his reasoning as to why we should sell her to him.

Yet she gave us litters of 8, 12, 2 and 7. Easy breedings, easy deliveries, big, healthy, robust pups and she was an exceptional mother. The only trouble ever was with the 2 pup litter where she needed a c-section, but we blame the small size of the litter on the chilled AI (all other breedings were natural), and c-section on the small number of pups that just weren't enough to stimulate active labor. Especially since her next litter was 7, all whelped easily.

Granted, that's just one female, but I've seen other pretty masculine type bitches who were easy breeders and good mothers too. So I do have to wonder how much stock to put in the some bitches look and act like they do due to testosterone and it can equate to being bad mothers theory.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Maybe it's just that it's so frustrating when you have a strong female who can't be bred, so it becomes very memorable? 

There was a very, very nice female at the schutzhund trial I watched last week. I looked at her in obedience (she's *very* pretty) and said, "I bet she goes back to Ellute..." I was close! 

She was very drivey, energetic, lively and well bonded with her handler in obedience. In protection, she was strong to the helper, very good guarding, and very disobedient! She did get a little chewy on the grips with the stick hits, but I think it was more that she just wanted to fight harder bc of the extra stimulation. Hard to know, of course! She was adorable--I would have taken her home in a second. 

G Ichiban von der Daelenberghütte


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Maybe it's just that it's so frustrating when you have a strong female who can't be bred, so it becomes very memorable?
> 
> There was a very, very nice female at the schutzhund trial I watched last week. I looked at her in obedience (she's *very* pretty) and said, "I bet she goes back to Ellute..." I was close!
> 
> ...


She is #1!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't think they have any less drive than their male counterparts. Its again a litter by litter basis, a dog by dog thing. But I do believe females grow up faster, females mature at a quicker rate, and due to this might be "easier" to train. The females I train with that are about my boy's age are much more mature than him and take to exercises in a much calmer and more handler focused way.

My boy still gets distracted, still wants to play with every dog he sees, and although I can get him through this it took me a while to get there. Maybe the best way to put it is that I believe females are more thoughtful in their work. In an over simplification...females think quicker and react, males react and then think about their actions lol.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Chris Wild said:


> So I do have to wonder how much stock to put in the some bitches look and act like they do due to testosterone and it can equate to being bad mothers theory.


I don't know if testosterone would have any effect on whether a bitch would be a good mother. Maternal instinct has to do with oxytocin, a different hormone, which is present in both males and females. When you think about it in human tems (we're certainly not dogs but another social species), even the biggest, baddest, toughest, most mascline man can be a gentle and loving father to his children.

I can see how testosterone could make *breeding* difficult, and I suppose it could have an effect on fertility. But a cause for poor mothering skills? I'm not convinced.


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