# Annoyed After Grooming Experience



## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I have started bringing Jazz to Petsmart to have his nails clipped and fur shaved on the bottom of his feet. Jazz is very afraid of the whole experience and is very difficult with them. He doesn't bite but he is constantly moving and fighting the process. The girl told me often dogs do better when their owner leaves so against my better judgment I left. I found a spot where I could see her working on him but he couldn't see me. She seemed very frustrated with him and at one point he managed to jump off the table and his head was still in the noose type collar thing. At that point I went back in and supervised. He was a little calmer with me back but was still uncooperative. 

I understand it must be difficult for the groomer but she was visibly frustrated and upset. This in turn upset me because the experience is already scary for Jazz and having an angry person work with him doesn't help things. 

He was uncooperative last time but not as bad. The groomer last time was kind with him and it didn't phase her one bit when he drooled all over her head. I stayed in the room last time too so he never tried to jump off the table.

I'm wondering how others would handle this situation. I don't know if I should look for a completely new place where he hasn't developed a negative association with it or if I should continue taking him back to Petsmart in the hopes that he gets used to it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would find a groomer who is experienced and the same one, not whoever happens to be working at the time. I take Karlo to a groomer for nail trims because he fights it so much. I put a muzzle on him and hand over the leash to her. She and her partner basically put him in a corner while one holds and one dremels, get it done fast. They don't put him on a table.
The groomer is confident with him and I do stay out of view, but I hear him howling and fussing. The last few times he was better, but this last time, he put up quite a fight(male drama)
5 minutes later, he comes out wagging tail and giving kisses/she removes the muzzle when they are done. 
The groomer has a red face and neck, I can tell he gives her a work out with his 90# of lanky muscle.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I've never used the grooming service at PetSmart...can't you ask for a groomer by name?


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

paulag1955 said:


> I've never used the grooming service at PetSmart...can't you ask for a groomer by name?


I'm sure I probably can but this was only the second time I've gone so I really had no expectation. Now that I've seen how the first groomer treated him vs. the second groomer I would definitely request a specific groomer if I were to go back.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Just out of curiosity, what does petsmart charge for nail/fur trim compared to other grooming businesses?
The one I go to is only $8 and I tip well. I have no idea what my local Petsmart or petco charges.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Just out of curiosity, what does petsmart charge for nail/fur trim compared to other grooming businesses?
> The one I go to is only $8 and I tip well. I have no idea what my local Petsmart or petco charges.


It was $20 for the nail and fur trim. They said for an extra $1 I could get his ears cleaned as well but I passed because he didn't need it.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

fuzzybunny said:


> IThe girl told me often dogs do better when their owner leaves


Having been a groomer of 20-odd years, I can tell you that this is true 99% of the time. Even if you stay out of sight, the dog knows when you're still in the room. Often times I can tell when an owner shows up early, because the dog I'm working on alerts before they even come in the door. Then the dog starts acting up and it can be difficult to finish. So don't be afraid to leave--just make sure you leave your dog in good, experienced, knowledgable hands.

What I would suggest is to take him somewhere other than Petsmart. It's a crowded, hectic, public place with a lot going on. I'd find a nice, quiet, private grooming business with an experienced groomer; hopefully, someone who is experienced with GSDs and is comfortable with them both physically and psychologically.

I used to run a high-volume grooming salon, with employees and everything, in a strip mall in the middle of town. We ran a tight ship, but it was a hectic location. Lots of people, cars, stuff going on, etc. After about 15 years of that noise, I decided for my own sanity to make a change, and built a grooming shop on my own property here at home. No employees, no traffic, just a quiet, peaceful, homey, low-stress environment where I could have absolute control of the quality and treatment of my clients. 

Both my volume and my stress level went waaaaaay down, and the animals picked up on the change; I've noticed they are lots calmer, less stressed, and more comfortable since the move. Even dogs I had difficulties with in the strip mall became more docile and peaceful in the new shop. There are no people walking around, no looky-lous, very few other dogs, no noise, no hustle or bustle. 

So, there's your answer! Find someone you can trust, in a relatively quiet location, and I bet it will make a difference.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

Rather than trying to find a groomer that can handle your dog, have you ever considered trying to desensitize him to being handled? It's extremely stressful for the dog and the groomer when the dog is unable to handle simple procedures.  I think it would greatly benefit Jazz to work with him on having his feet handled and his nails clipped!


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

e.rigby said:


> Rather than trying to find a groomer that can handle your dog, have you ever considered trying to desensitize him to being handled? It's extremely stressful for the dog and the groomer when the dog is unable to handle simple procedures.  I think it would greatly benefit Jazz to work with him on having his feet handled and his nails clipped!


I have worked on this since the day I got him and he's fine having my husband and I handle him and clip his nails. I just don't feel comfortable clipping his nails myself because they're huge and I can't see the quick. When he was younger I always did them (without issue from him) and then the bigger he got, the thicker the nails got, and now they just freak me out and I won't do it. It's like trying to clip bear nails. I clip my other dog's nails myself but I don't feel comfortable doing his myself any longer. 

Jazz's issues I think are not so much the nail clipping as the new environment. He's terrified being up on the table. When we walked in, there was a Golden up on the table barking and crying which I think stressed him out further than he already was. Another example is that although he doesn't love baths, he lets me give them no problem at home. I took him to Petsmart last year for one and he was terrified. I think that's where the fear of Petsmart began actually. He's terrified to go through those grooming doors. 

I think I will take Freestep and Onyx Girl's suggestion of finding another less hectic place to take him. I really wish I felt more comfortable doing them myself but I just don't.

I just wanted to add that when I take Jazz to the vet they handle him everywhere and always comment on how well behaved he is. That's why I think this has to do with a fear of the environment more than a fear of being handled. Jazz has been through numerous classes where we practiced other people handling his paws etc.... I even had my friends specifically practice touching, rubbing, holding his paws so I could avoid this exact problem. Whenever I give him massages I make a point of handling his feet. I really don't think this is a handling issue as much as a fear of the environment.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> I just wanted to add that when I take Jazz to the vet they handle him everywhere and always comment on how well behaved he is.


Well, this may be a stupid question ... but does your vet offer nail trims? I know that a lot of vets do, and if he does fine being handled at the vet's, that may be a better option than taking him to Petsmart to have it done.

If it needs to be at a groomer's in general or Petsmart in particular, see if they will accommodate him by trimming his nails on the ground instead of on the table. Some dogs are more comfortable when they're at their normal point-of-view level vs. up on the creepy table.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

AbbyK9 said:


> Well, this may be a stupid question ... but does your vet offer nail trims? I know that a lot of vets do, and if he does fine being handled at the vet's, that may be a better option than taking him to Petsmart to have it done.
> 
> If it needs to be at a groomer's in general or Petsmart in particular, see if they will accommodate him by trimming his nails on the ground instead of on the table. Some dogs are more comfortable when they're at their normal point-of-view level vs. up on the creepy table.


Not a stupid question at all. It's an option I've considered but due to the distance I haven't gone that route yet. I think I'll look around at a few different places closer to me first and will definitely request that they do it on the ground and not the table. There are a few smaller shops around so I'll explain what the issue is and hopefully he'll feel more relaxed there. Perhaps I can take him in there randomly just for treats so he views it as a happy place where good things happen.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

AbbyK9 said:


> Well, this may be a stupid question ... but does your vet offer nail trims? I know that a lot of vets do, and if he does fine being handled at the vet's, that may be a better option than taking him to Petsmart to have it done.


The vet will probably charge 2-3 times as much as a groomer. But if all else fails it might be something to try.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I've been a groomer for over 30 years, and I would encourage you to find a small shop to take your dog. AND have the same groomer always work on him. 

See if they will try to do his nails on the floor, instead of the table. I take my own GSDs to work to bathe them, and they are much better on the floor for nails, even though they are used to being on a table. In fact, I make them lie on their sides, and they are easy to do then.

While the vast majority of dogs are better if the owners aren't around when you work on them, your dog may be one of the exceptions. 

I groom a beast of a westie that absolutely will not let me do his nails, even with help from another groomer. His owner insisted that she could hold him while I did his nails. She put that little dog in a death grip, and I got his nails cut. I have another customer that has a 50 lb pit mix that she holds in her arms like a baby, lol, while I cut her nails. Whatever works!

I tell all my customers that have dogs with touchy/sensitive/tickly feet, to constantly mess with them. Give treats, play with their feet. It does help. I'm always looking at my dogs' pads, and between their toes. Messing with their ears, looking at their arm pits, lol. My vet appreciates it, because you can poke and prod every inch of these two girls and they don't skip a beat... and it doesn't hurt them in the show ring either!


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I have been grooming for over 35 years and now groom out of my home. The dogs do tend to be better when the owner is gone, especially the ones who rule their own house. I always have to remind them that they can screem and yelp and pull their legs and poop and pee, but I am still going to clip their nails, groom them and use the dryer.
I also work at the clinic and my advice is go to a professional groomer if you can to have the nails done. They(the vet clinic) will charge more, and in the usual scenerio, they will get them done, but it might be with a strangle hold and being laid on by the vet techs, the vet and whomever is needed to get this done quickly. A good groomer will take more time and get it done for you with the least stress as possible.
That being said, the majority of "groomers" at Petco/Petsmart have gone through a very fast course on grooming and are suddenly experts. I watched one at a shop torment a Schnauzer on the table. You could tell he didn't like his mustach being brushed, but it was done by another "groomer" Then this other "groomer" kept brushing at his mustach over and over getting him to growl and pull away and snap at the brush and she just kept doing it and laughing with another girl. I finally got pissed and went to the manager and told him what was going on. He was not happy.
Find a good groomer at a small shop and work with your dog and the groomer together to make the nail clipping and shaving a good process. Hopefully lots of cookies will work.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> They(the vet clinic) will charge more, and in the usual scenerio, they will get them done, but it might be with a strangle hold and being laid on by the vet techs, the vet and whomever is needed to get this done quickly. A good groomer will take more time and get it done for you with the least stress as possible.


Yep--it seems most of the vet clinics will simply employ as many people as are on hand to restrain the dog, and I firmly believe that the dog is reacting more to the restraint than the clipping itself. I've told this story before--a client with an Aussie told me it took three people to do his nails at the vet's office, with him screaming bloody murder the whole time. When he came to my shop, I popped the pup on the table, petted and fussed over him a moment, then picked up a foot. He struggled and whimpered for a moment, but I didn't let go, and he realized he couldn't go anywhere. Then I did all his toenais, bam bam bam, with nary a whimper. The owner couldn't believe it.

So honestly, I think in most cases, it's more about the environment and the approach than the nail clipping itself.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I wish I lived near you Freestep . I found 3 places that have gotten some positive reviews. One is very close to me so I'm going to bring Jazz with me and go check it out. Since it's so close I can bring him in often just for treats and petting assuming I get a good vibe from them and they say that's o.k.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I was working at the clinic one day, a lady brought her dog in needing a clip, but warned me that she could only do one nail at a time per day, the dog just screamed, bit and threw a fit when she clipped them. I took the dog, had her wait in the waiting room, set her on the table and started to do her nails. She started throwing her fit and I told her to knock her "sh**" off and behave. She looked at me like "oh boy, this is not my mom" and then stood like a rock while I proceeded to dremmel her nails in less than five minutes. Owner was amazed and thrilled. She only comes into the clinic when I am working to have her nails done.


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## Salix (Feb 13, 2011)

I had a similar experience to you. Groomed at Petsmart only twice. First was positive, second was a gong show. 

First had groomer who was successful with nail trim. 

Second claimed he was a kicking horse and went on to reprimand me for not telling them in advance so they could muzzle him at an extra cost. She only got 50% of the nails done and at least didn't charge me. 

In both scenarios both groomers had no interest in the dog's experience, age or background. Never asked. 

I was so fed up I steeled myself and through sheer determination have now a dog that tolerates nail clipping from me. We have worked through it and succeeded. I clip him now myself. 

Although I don't think my dog is perfect, I think some groomers get more quickly frustrated than others and don't stay as calm. Dogs pick up on that.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

he doesn't have to be on the table to been groomed.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Update: After Jazz's grooming experience I looked around for a new place and found a small shop about 5 minutes from where I live. They're also half the price charging only $5 for a nail clip. I brought Bunny in for a test run to see how they are. Bunny is usually a rock but even she was frightened at Petsmart the one time I brought her. The employees at this new place were super friendly and they didn't bother putting her on the table which I liked. The woman came around and clipped all her nails in the fastest time I've ever seen. Bunny was fine and enjoyed her treats afterward. I bought a pair of better nail clippers so I will do Bunny's nails myself and will take Jazz to this new place in the future. Maybe I'll even become brave enough to do Jazz's too


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

My mom has taken Schatzi, her schnauzer, to the same groomer (not just the same shop, but the same person) for about 13 or 14 years now. She's very good with her, especially now since she's geriatric, and she always comes home a happy pup.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

fuzzybunny said:


> I have worked on this since the day I got him and he's fine having my husband and I handle him and clip his nails. I just don't feel comfortable clipping his nails myself because they're huge and I can't see the quick. When he was younger I always did them (without issue from him) and then the bigger he got, the thicker the nails got, and now they just freak me out and I won't do it.


Have you looked into using a dremel?


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I'm considering a Dremel in the future for Jazz if I don't get over my discomfort doing it with the clippers. I know a lot of people swear by them.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

I've never liked Petsmart in my area because they have the "fishbowl" windows that they work on the dogs for public display.
If you have a reactive dog on either side of the glass, it seems like a receipe for disaster.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

CarrieJ said:


> I've never liked Petsmart in my area because they have the "fishbowl" windows that they work on the dogs for public display.
> If you have a reactive dog on either side of the glass, it seems like a receipe for disaster.


Oh Lordy, yes. When my shop was in a strip mall, I had looky-lous all the time and it drove both me and the dogs crazy. Especially little kids who would go running back and forth across the windows, then peep in and squeal--some dogs completely lose their composure. Not to mention the adults who come in the shop "just to watch", because they think it's just so darn fun and silly and interesting.  Drove me mad. I am one of those people who can't concentrate when people are breathing down my neck. When I'm working with warm, soft, wriggly living bodies and sharp instruments, I need to have distractions down to a minimum. I'm surprised the corporate grooming shops don't realize how much of a danger and a liability it is to have the general public running around in front of the dogs on the table.

When I moved my shop out to my home property, all that stopped. Whew!  As I mentioned before, the dogs are much calmer and more relaxed away from the hustle and bustle. I don't think I could ever go back to fishbowl grooming.


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