# Home Remedies: Myths or Facts?



## Kaluig

From the list below, which home remedies are considered myths (and potentially dangerous) or facts when giving to our lovely GSD?

*Myths*: it does not provide any benefits or is dangerous, not good to be given to dogs at all as it is poisoneous

*Facts*: benefits are visible (what are the uses/benefits?), it works as intended and is safe for dogs


I will provide my feedback first:
1 clove* garlic*/day - MYTH -I tried one day, cut it in small pieces and mixed with my dog's food, Igor did not like that at all and threw up 30 min after eating
1 tablet of human *vitamin C* 500 mg/day - have not tried yet, heard is good for inflamtions as it is an antioxidant
2 capsules of human *cod oil liver*/day - FACT - gave to him before in lieu of oil fish and benefits were visible on his fur
*oil fish* with mint flavor - MYTH - i think my dog got allergic to the mint and did not see the benefit as noticeable in the human cod oil liver
organic apple cidar *vinegar* - FACT - have not tried yet but used white vinegar with warn water to clean his ears
*brown rice* with some *onions* in - i have given to him before but I tried to remove the onions before and later decided to make it w/o onions for us as well to so he could eat it as is, not sure if rice should be given often or once in a blue moon
*apples* - he does not seem to like it
*greek yogurt* - he loves greek yogurt!
*papaya* - he LOVES papaya!
*cantaloupe/melon* - he likes melons!
*carrots* - he did not like that much
*milk* - he would drink but he would have diarrhea or very soft stool
*greenies* (not human but would be good to know) - he LOVES greenies but I am concerned about some of its non natural ingredients
Any others? 
What would you recommend and what benefit/results have you seen?
What would you not recommend as a big "no-no"?


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## llombardo

No onions and I think Greek yogurt is not good for them, it has higher something then regular yogurt(I can't remember what right now). Apple Cider Vinegar is good for the PH in the pee, so it doesn't turn grass brown. Apples with no seeds, seeds are poisonous. Stay away from milk.


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## Jax08

I don't think you can base Fact/Myth off your own experiences. As far as the cod liver oil capsules, be careful with those. That is loaded with Vitamin A which is not water soluble and can lead to toxicity.

Important Cod Liver Oil Update


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## Kaluig

Thanks for the info, especially the one about cod liver oil, kind of scary...i have not given that to Igor in years so I should be safe there, I was giving him fish oil with mint flavor but I guess he did not like that much and maybe gave him some respiratory allergy.

As far as greek yogurt, I would really like to hear more about it. We all know about the positive effects of probiotics found in yogurt but I am now very curious to find out why greek is not as recommended as plain yogurt for dogs.

How about garlic clove and human vitamin C? Any experience there? And greenies?

I believe we are what we eat and that applies to dogs as well. I switched his dry food from Science Diet and Eukanuba to Blue Basics Turkey and Potato for seniors. He actually liked the regular Blue adult formula of Lamb & Brown Rice but I have inquired Blue if he should stay with senior formula or not since he is 11 years old.


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## Jax08

Vitamin C is good. Make sure it has rose hips in it so you are getting the "whole" component. I've read studies that only giving the isolated component without the bioflavonoids can be damaging. I don't feed greenies. I give them chicken feet, bully sticks, dried tracheas as chews. Yogurt is fine to give. However, if your dog has been ill yogurt does not have a high enough culture count to repopulate a system so you will have to give probiotics.


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## shepherdmom

re: milk Many years ago Buddy licked one of those poisonous toad they have in Arizona and was in great distress. As it was a night time weekend there were no vets open. We called a friend and trainer who had had experience and she said to give him milk. We did. OMG with in a few seconds Buddy who had been shaking, wobbling and peeing all over the place was fine and playing. If you live in an area with those frogs, keep some milk on hand. I believe it saved his life. 

Re Greek yogurt what is wrong with it?


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## Jax08

There is nothing wrong with greek yogurt. It's just strained more than regular yogurt. It has higher everything than regular yogurt...protein, calcium, cultures...

A spoonful won't hurt them. Yogurt is an extra...not to be considered part of their meals. But still keep the calories in mind if your dog is overweight.


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## llombardo

Its something to do with high oxalates I believe. Something to do with hurting the kidneys/liver or something like that. I just don't give it, because whatever was said about it made it stick in my head that they shouldn't have it. I'm sorry I don't have any more info


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## Jax08

llombardo said:


> Its something to do with high oxalates I believe. Something to do with hurting the kidneys/liver or something like that. I just don't give it, because whatever was said about it made it stick in my head that they shouldn't have it. I'm sorry I don't have any more info


Is this along the lines of what you read? due to possible kidney stones?
Dog Urinary Tract Issues and Dog Treats

Personally, I dont' feed it to the dogs because it's expensive and it's not a main part of their diet. Jax only gets yogurt when I feed her honey for her allergies.


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## llombardo

Jax08 said:


> Is this along the lines of what you read? due to possible kidney stones?
> Dog Urinary Tract Issues and Dog Treats
> 
> Personally, I dont' feed it to the dogs because it's expensive and it's not a main part of their diet. Jax only gets yogurt when I feed her honey for her allergies.


No, I never read that. It was someone talking about it with their dogs, but it was pretty much the same idea with the kidneys.


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## shepherdmom

So the store is out of Marrow bones and I've been trying out different kong treat recipes and one is mixing kibble with yogurt and freezing. I bought the Greek because it was lower in salt and sugar than the regular stuff. Maybe I should toss it?


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## Jax08

I wouldn't toss it. I think you need to look at overall diet during the day. Is a spoonful really going to hurt until you use it up? You could mix it with pumpkin and freeze it too so you would lower the amount.


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## shepherdmom

Jax08 said:


> I wouldn't toss it. I think you need to look at overall diet during the day. Is a spoonful really going to hurt until you use it up? You could mix it with pumpkin and freeze it too so you would lower the amount.


Ooh pumpkin is a good idea.  I didn't think about that for kong filling. My dogs for the most part just get kibble. With the occasional dog cookie or marrow bone. Buddy is a really good weight for his size, according to the vet. 

Thanks!


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## Kaluig

I google and found several articles about greek yogurt and dogs, some in favor, others against. I asked my vet before and he said was okay as long as he did not show any side effects like diarrhea or soft stools. He also said to be conservative and not give it everyday and not too much quantity, I give 2 tablespoons 3x a week right after he eats his dry food in the morning. His stool continues to be firm.

Can I Give My Dog Greek Yogurt?

I have been feeding my dog Greek Yogurt for lunch thinking - JustAnswer

Is it ok for dogs to have yogurt? - Yahoo! Answers

Greek yogurt for tear stains? - Havanese Forum : Havanese Forums

Yogurt for Dogs


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## Neko

Animals do not need Vitamin C. They make their own.

*Harmful Vitamins*
Vitamins A, B6, C and D cause toxicity in dogs, and the dog becomes ill--the results of which are sometimes fatal.

I am married to a pharmacist =) he pulls up actual research in medical journals and studies, not random junk off the internet. 

If you search harmful vitamins for dogs or "should I gave my dog human vitamins" most of the things that come up will say NO, including resources on some veterinary clinic sites. 

Hope this helps, even for people doctors say "too much of a good thing could be bad for you".

Some good explanation about predetermined dosing for pets and humans. 
http://www.findavet.us/2012/06/human-multivitamins-safe-dogs/


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## Jax08

Vitamin C is water soluble. It is not harmful to dogs or people. You can take mega doses and what your body, or their body, doesn't need will just wash out in the urine.


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## Neko

But why stuff an animal pointlessly with something they don't need at all? none of the benefits were ever confirmed in a study... 

"Unlike humans who require vitamin C to sustain life, dogs possess the natural ability to make their own. Without vitamin C humans get a disease called scurvy — and die.

Yet dogs do just fine without it.

However, there have been some reports claiming that vitamin C could help in the treatment of bladder infections.

Or even hip dysplasia.

Unfortunately, those claims have never been scientifically confirmed by research. So, don’t worry if you don’t find vitamin C — or any of the fruits or vegetables that naturally contain it — on your dog food’s ingredient list.

Your dog can take care of that missing nutrient all by herself."


Allot of the toxins are from color additives that are ok for humans and not for animals.

I guess I am going to trust an actual scientist who studies the chemicals and can pull up fact and myth. My dog will only be getting what he needs and I wont experiment on him based on what someone thinks is ok or not.


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## Magwart

While healthy dogs do produce Vitamin C, stress, injury and age can cause it to be inadequate. Here are some sources that refute the idea that no dog ever needs Vitamin C:

Dr. Clemmons (a leading authority on DM research) has a set of recommendations for supplements (INCLUDING some vitamins) for all GSDs -- with higher doseages for DM dogs. My vet recommended I look at and consider these recommendations as part of my senior dog's comprehensive elder care and management of arthritis, and my vet knew of Dr. Clemmons by reputation. Dr. Clemmons recommends B-Complex, E (mixed tocopherol), and C, among other things:
Degenerative Myelopathy of German Shepherds

As for Vitamin C, I use Ester-C for my senior because it's more easily tolerated, and it's the one that's actually been studied in dogs and found to provide a benefit for dogs with arthritis:
Vitamin May Relieve Pain Of Hip Dysplasia - Spokesman Mobile - Oct. 6, 1996 
There was a small U.S. study that found great benefit. It was based on another Norwegian study I can't find right now that found similar benefit. You may not like the studies (small, perhaps not peer reviewed--I don't know), and they may not be funded by big pharma, but they are out there.


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## Jax08

The seniors need more vitamin C as well. How do you know that each dog creates the required amount of vitamin C needed? Each are individual living beings with individual requirements, just like us. C has been shown to help Pano, arthritis, etc. Studies, legitimate studies, are out there.

And this comment...


> I guess I am going to trust an actual scientist who studies the chemicals and can pull up fact and myth. My dog will only be getting what he needs and I wont experiment on him based on what someone thinks is ok or not.


We are not uneducated morons using yahoo and wikipedia as our source. We, too, are perfectly capable of understanding peer reviewed articles with legitimate references. If you don't want to give a vitamin based on the information you have, that is fine. But I do get tired on condescending comments like this. You are not the only person in the world with medical professionals in the family. Or if you look around, there are plenty of scientists and medical professionals on this very board.


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## Neko

I am not trying to argue or disagree at all, I just see allot of people giving their dogs things that "they think" help the dog. I would only do it if my vet tell me that "your dog could benefit from this" because.... after blood work etc. I would not just do it because I saw it somewhere online in a review =) I don't disagree that senior dogs might need it.

I use similar principals for myself... My sister in law kept telling me to take "one a day" and after blood work my doctor told me do what you are doing, everything is perfect, don't add what you don't need. And recently there was a study showing that people OD on vitamins and some vitamin build up is leading to cancer. So its just the whole home remedy topic in general. Its a persons choice, but I would not experiment on my pet. I would ask a professional first if there is a problem and try to find a solution.


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## llombardo

Kaluig said:


> I google and found several articles about greek yogurt and dogs, some in favor, others against. I asked my vet before and he said was okay as long as he did not show any side effects like diarrhea or soft stools. He also said to be conservative and not give it everyday and not too much quantity, I give 2 tablespoons 3x a week right after he eats his dry food in the morning. His stool continues to be firm.


I give my dogs 1 tablespoon of plain yogurt almost everyday..they love it. If I were to give them greek yogurt I would not over do it. Once a week tops, just because I don't know for sure what it can and can't do, just not taking that chance. You can also try cottage cheese.


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## Wolfgeist

It kills me to see someone fed their dog onions after a friend of mine recently lost their dog because of onions.


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## Freestep

There are two kinds of protein in milk: Casein and whey protein. Casein is the protein that some animals have issues with, while whey protein is more digestible and well tolerated by animals. The thing with Greek yogurt is that most of the whey has been strained off, leaving mostly casein protein. So that is the only issue with Greek yogurt that I can see. 

Lactose is the other ingredient in milk products that most animals do not tolerate, but in yogurt (any kind of yogurt) most of the lactose has been eaten by the beneficial bacteria and converted to lactic acid. So any kind of yogurt is better for your dog than fresh milk products. I haven't had any problems feeding Greek yogurt to my dogs and cats. It's good for pretty much any critter.

Onions are toxic to dogs, but they have to consume a LOT of onions.

Hops, the kind used in beer, are deadly and a very small amount can kill a dog. We lost a dog to hop poisoning after hubby brewed some beer at home, dumped the hops out on the ground. We had no idea how poisonous they were, and had no idea the dog would find them attractive or appetizing. Learned that lesson the hard and heartbreaking way.


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## Neko

Jax08 said:


> But I do get tired on condescending comments like this


Sorry Jax, I did not mean to come across as condescending, it's hard to tell over text how a person actually sounds, but I was not trying to be condescending at all. I just tried to share information that I know because this is a topic that we recently discussed in real life with a few professionals. 

I biggest concern I have with home remedy and people experimenting, is I noticed that there are many people on this forum that do not talk to professionals, many are not from the states. So they come on the forum ask for feedback and run with it. It's scary. There are 16 year olds here that own pets and take care of them, so anything anyone says they are trying on their dogs. I was just trying to say that before trying anything on your dog, talk to a professional? I don't think that this is so wrong? It's just out of pure love and concern for the animals, they can't treat themselves, they need us and if they are old and they need a supplement than they do. but even than, its not a human pill that they get, they have a specially formulated supplements that don't have color or other stuff added that humans get. 

Sorry again, did not want to offend anyone. Just personally think that a supplement should not be given w/o at-least a consultation with the dogs vet or a holistic vet who might have more feedback on some of these home remedies. Because of the internet, people self diagnose allot.


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## msvette2u

Onions are toxic.
So are grapes, raisins, hops, XYLITOL, ibuprofen, Macadamia nuts, and garlic in large enough quantities. Garlic is said to be good and people don't think it harms, but the damage is to red blood cells, same with onions. So you may think your pet is okay but they could have cellular damage and you'd not know about it. 
Avocados are said to be toxic to pets. Many house plants are as well. 

Chocolate is toxic - but mostly dark chocolate. Like other things, the amount and type makes the difference between a stomach irritant and a toxin.

Something I've also seen recommended and is okay for humans but deadly to cats and dogs is TEA TREE OIL. 
Before grabbing ANYthing from the herbal/nature store and using it on your pets, GOOGLE search. If you find more than one site that says stay away from it, especially if it's a "vet site" (some advice is written by actual vets) then stay away from it.

Just because herbal remedies and home remedies seems safe, or are safe in humans does NOT mean they are safe in pets. Tea Tree Oil is a good example. It can absorb into the skin of pets and make them very ill. Yet for humans, it's fine. Xylitol, same thing, safe in humans and even "good" for teeth, from what they say, yet deadly to pets.

Pets aren't small humans with fur on them, they have unique body systems and utilize medications and other things differently than humans, so unless studies have been done in pets, DON'T risk it with your pets. At the very VERY least, ask your vet before giving OTC meds or herbal remedies or homeopathics.


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## Jax08

I absolutely agree with you, Neko. And I apologize as well. I've seen many comments on here that were condescending and I get touchy. There are some reports out there on multi-vitamins and how they are not good for us. One study on calcium supplements, primarily made from limestone, that is actually hardening our arteries because out bodies weren't meant to digest rock. People need to discuss with their vets any supplements they are adding. 

I, too, hate to see people coming on here for medical advice, or solutions for aggressive/fearful dogs, without talking to the proper professionals. People should do the research and take it to their vet for discussion. I've gone to the vet with a stack of prints before to sort out fact from fiction and what is relevant for my dog at the time. Personally, I try to supplement with whole foods to get the extra vitamins/minerals the dogs may need. Blue green algaes, fruits, etc.


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## carmspack

don't be giving your dog cod liver oil as a substitute for fish oil --- cod liver oil , important point, is high in fat soluble Vitamin A --- which is stored in the body and can lead to Vitamin A toxicosis --- If you want Vitamin A safe , non toxic , valuable sources are red pigmented plant material , carrots , purple carrots, beta carotene enriched carrots , African red palm oil.

If you are giving cod liver oil as a source for DHA - EPA , NOT the best choice , partly because of the unwanted toxic effect from accumulation, and because the levels are low - compared to what you would recieve if you were using fish oil "
13. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FISH OIL AND COD LIVER OIL?
Cod liver oil is extracted from cod livers, whereas fish oil is extracted from the body flesh of fish. While both are good sources of the omega-3s EPA and DHA, they provide different ratios—cod liver oil generally contains about 9% EPA and 14% DHA, whereas fish oil generally contains about 18% EPA and 12% DHA."

So you see the fish oil has double the EPA .


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## Cassidy's Mom

Kaluig said:


> Thanks for the info, especially the one about cod liver oil, kind of scary...i have not given that to Igor in years so I should be safe there, I was giving him fish oil with mint flavor but I guess he did not like that much and maybe gave him some respiratory allergy.


Why would you give him fish oil flavored with mint? My dogs love the taste of fish oil, but I don't know if they'd like mint.


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## Kaluig

Foxes and hounds,

I truly, truly thank you all for your postings but I have to admit I am a little confused after reading many different opinions about the same topics... 

This is what I have done and actually worked well for me and my dog: use common sense. If any topic is too controversial, like a 50-50 split between pro and against, or mostly negative inputs, I simply skip that all together. If one topic is overwhelmingly in favor, like vinegar and yogurts (with the right dosage, not over do it), I continue to give it to my dog but looking for any possible side effects.

It would be awesome if this forum could have one permanent posting with everything consolidated under that thread. That is what I tried to do in here as I have read too many different topics, in many different threads. If we could consolidate all in one thread and inform the whole community about the pros and cons of each alternative remedy, it would be awesome to use it as a reference. I also understand this is not a medical advice forum and that we should check with out vets first.

In that consolidated thread, we could have statements like:
1- avoid onions at all costs
2- avoid hoppys at all cost (very sorry to hear how we found out about this)
3- greek yogurt (just do not over do it, it seems to work well for most dogs but might be intolerant to some)
4- vitamin C (administer some small dosages to senior dogs only who should still be monitored closely)
5- cod liver oil (should not be admistered anymore because of the high concentration of vitamin A which could be lethal to dogs, use fish oil supplements instead)
6- garlic ? still not sure if we should give garlic or not but my dog threw up so I am not giving to him anymore
7- etc....


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## Cassidy's Mom

shepherdmom said:


> I bought the Greek because it was lower in salt and sugar than the regular stuff. Maybe I should toss it?


Or eat it yourself! I buy the nonfat plain version and mix in a little honey to taste. It's a yummy and high protein quick breakfast.



Neko said:


> Animals do not need Vitamin C. *They make their own.*


Yes, but. The question is whether they're making enough. Here's an article from the Whole Dog Journal about that: Benefits of Vitamin C to Your Dog - Whole Dog Journal Article



> Dogs, however, can produce vitamin C in their bodies, and because of this ability, nutritionists have long considered it unnecessary to add C to a dog’s diet. Until recently, few dog food makers added vitamin C to their products – or if they do, it was for the preservative action of the vitamin, rather than its nutritive value.
> 
> This may be appropriate when dealing with healthy unstressed animals, but recent clinical observations indicate that when dogs are sick or stressed, they can rapidly deplete their bodies’ output of vitamin C.





> It’s important to remember that a healthy, happy dog with a quality diet and little stress probably has no need of supplementation with vitamin C. However, if stress, illness, or age causes a dog’s need for vitamin C to outstrip his ability to produce it, supplementing him with C is a sensible choice.


Our vet suggested giving vitamin C to Sneaker when she was a senior, which surprised me since I'd always thought it wasn't necessary since dogs produce their own. As others mentioned, excess vitamin C is not toxic, although it can cause diarrhea if you give too much. Anything more than the dog needs will be excreted in their urine.


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## llombardo

msvette2u said:


> Many house plants are as well.
> 
> .


Good thing I can't grow or keep a flower or plant alive for the life of me


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## Kaluig

More postings and awesome comments!

Thanks for the garlic and the cod live oil ones, very informative comments indeed! I just tried garlic one day and was bad. I used to give Igor cod liver oil years ago but is good to know is not safe anymore, in the past, it was recommended, go figure, we seem to change our minds a lot, same on humans, one research today changes another research done last year and so on, very confusing!

I think most people, like me, come here to educate ourselves about our lovely german shepherds, I simple love them so much that I want to give the best they could possibily have on this Earth, like anybody else. Nobody would give something to our dogs to harm them.

The fish oil with mint! That was a surprise to me. I ordered fish oil online, Welactin soft gells, and I smelled mint when I opened the box. Because the mint taste shows in green against a green background bottle, I never actually saw that and when I ordered, it did not say anything about mint at all. 

I gave to Igor in November and by mid-December, he started to have allergic symptons like heavy breathing, sneezing, congestion, etc...all symptons of a cold. I took him to my vet who told me he did not have a cold but actually was being allergic to something. He took several x-rays and all showed fine, better than most dogs his age, he told me.

That was the same time when I switched his dry food from Science Diet to Eukanuba so I did not know if it was the mint fish oil (2 capsules/day) or the Eukanuba. I got a refund on my second fish oil bottle and stopped giving that to him. I switched the dry food to Blue and then to Fromm but on Fromm, he was chocking all the time because of the size of the kibbles. He does not have those allergic symptoms anymore so I still have 30 capsules of that fish oil that I will probably have to throw them away. He is back on Blue (Basics Turkey and Potato for seniors).

What do you recommend for fish oil soft capsules? He is 11 years old and I heard fish oil is great for dogs but if anyone disagrees with that, please let me know.

Chicken! I heard chicken fat and chicken could be allergic to dogs! Has anyone experienced that? In December, I stopped giving Igor chicken and bought dry food withough any chicken ingredients. I bought chicken free of antibiotics, cage free chicken, etc...and gave to him sometimes but nowadays, I do not give him chicken at all. All his treats a re chicken free.

I read some postings on raw chicken feet, neck, etc given to dogs...are you not concerned about salmonella or other bacteria found in raw food???


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

Cod liver oil can be used in small doses. A holistic vet recommended I give it in place of the salmon oil I use, just once a week. 

Also, same with garlic, small doses can also be given and is great for a lot of things. I wouldn't give it by itself-I'd probably throw up too if I ate a whole clove of garlic by itself. I just give a small amount here and there, not everyday.


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## Neko

Kaluig said:


> Chicken! I heard chicken fat and chicken could be allergic to dogs! Has anyone experienced that? In December, I stopped giving Igor chicken and bought dry food withough any chicken ingredients. I bought chicken free of antibiotics, cage free chicken, etc...and gave to him sometimes but nowadays, I do not give him chicken at all. All his treats a re chicken free.


I been hearing this allot that many (not all) dogs are allergic to chicken and chicken fat. Our breeder recommends no chicken in the dogs diet at all. They have seen no issues with lamb and brown rice in over 10 years with many of their dogs and new puppy owners. 

Another breeder we considered said the same thing. I have no idea, I did google it and it was mentioned on many websites that it is on the same level as grain allergies to a dog. But I also know many dogs that eat chicken and are fine. 

I guess just like people, they are all different. I recently learned that people can be allergic to chicken? lol


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## Kaluig

LOL, I think we can all go nuts around these topics!

Igor seems to love lamb and rice formula, never had any problems. However, Blue does not make a lamb and rice formula for seniors so I think I will go back to the adult lamb and rice formula. Does anybody recommend a senior formula with lamb and rice and no chicken in? Welness seems to have Simple Lamb and Oatmeal for mature/senior dogs, has anyone tried or heard anything about that?

Vitamin C: is human vitamin C recommended and besides the hose hips recommendation, what is the mg that should be given to dogs? Or should I buy a dog vitamin C? Any recommendations?


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## Cassidy's Mom

If you look on the Whole Dog Journal I linked to there are dosage suggestions. This article talks about the different kinds of vitamin C: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/newspics/pdfs/1-8-Form.pdf

Human supplements are fine, you don't need to give vitamin C made for dogs.


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## msvette2u

Vit. C. should be given in 250mg. - 500mg. to start. 
1k and over can make them have diarrhea. 
Human supplements are fine.

We use this and it has Ester C in it.
Next Level Equine Joint Fluid Farnam (Supplements - Joint - Liquid Paste)


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## llombardo

Neko said:


> I been hearing this allot that many (not all) dogs are allergic to chicken and chicken fat. Our breeder recommends no chicken in the dogs diet at all. They have seen no issues with lamb and brown rice in over 10 years with many of their dogs and new puppy owners.
> 
> Another breeder we considered said the same thing. I have no idea, I did google it and it was mentioned on many websites that it is on the same level as grain allergies to a dog. But I also know many dogs that eat chicken and are fine.
> 
> I guess just like people, they are all different. I recently learned that people can be allergic to chicken? lol


My cat is allergic to all chicken, turkey, and duck. So I guess it can go for all species.


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## Jax08

Neko said:


> I guess just like people, they are all different. I recently learned that people can be allergic to chicken? lol


Why not? My husband and daughter are allergic to peanuts. I had a doctor that was allergic to potatoes....how sucky would that be?! No french fries, hash browns, baked, mash, soup! LOL

As far as allergies...I often wonder what is a true allergy and what is an intolerance. Banshee (our 13 yr old) gets very gassy, to the point of panting and much discomfort, if she eats chicken but is fine with turkey and duck. It makes me wonder what is in our chicken that is causing so many issues with dogs.


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## Neko

Jax08 said:


> Why not? My husband and daughter are allergic to peanuts. I had a doctor that was allergic to potatoes....how sucky would that be?! No french fries, hash browns, baked, mash, soup! LOL


No potatoes??? no way, I would be in trouble. 

I was allergic to apples, and refused to live with it. I had rash all over my neck for 2 years as I was determined to fight the allergy. I think I won!!! but my doctor thinks that it might have been a pesticide used for those couple of years and not the apple. Oh well, I ate them anyways. No potatoes would be horrible and sounds totally funny. =)


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## katdog5911

*tea tree oil is toxic????!!!!! * Oh no....I have used it on Stella for hot spots on and off. I got it at a pet shop that has lots of holistic stuff. It isn't 100% tea tree but now I will get rid of it.


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## Kaluig

Msvette2u and Cassidy's Mom,

Thanks for the tips! I already gave Igor 1 vitamin C tablet 500mg with rose hips just now but this Next Level Equine joint fluid seems to be a Godsend gift! Just read all the testimonies. Igor has hip dysplasia and has been on Cosequin DS as supplement. As I will need to order a replacement soon, I will try this Next Level.

By the instructions, I should give 1/2 oz for his 80 lbs. Is that once a day? Do you mix with the dry food?

As far as dry food, has anyone tried Welness Simple Lamb & Oatmeal for mature dogs? Do you recommend it? I am between that and Blue Lamb & Rice for adults (not for seniors).


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## Kaluig

I have allergies to diets, I eat everything! LOL


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## msvette2u

Kaluig said:


> Msvette2u and Cassidy's Mom,
> 
> Thanks for the tips! I already gave Igor 1 vitamin C tablet 500mg with rose hips just now but this Next Level Equine joint fluid seems to be a Godsend gift! Just read all the testimonies. Igor has hip dysplasia and has been on Cosequin DS as supplement. As I will need to order a replacement soon, I will try this Next Level.
> 
> By the instructions, I should give 1/2 oz for his 80 lbs. Is that once a day? Do you mix with the dry food?
> 
> As far as dry food, has anyone tried Welness Simple Lamb & Oatmeal for mature dogs? Do you recommend it? I am between that and Blue Lamb & Rice for adults (not for seniors).


When you get it there's a little thingy where you squeeze it up into the measuring area. It goes by weight so is easy to use. We use it once a day, yes, and pour it on the dog's kibble.


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## Jax08

katdog5911 said:


> *tea tree oil is toxic????!!!!! * Oh no....I have used it on Stella for hot spots on and off. I got it at a pet shop that has lots of holistic stuff. It isn't 100% tea tree but now I will get rid of it.


 I've used it on Jax before and I have a shampoo from a local groomer with tea tree oil in it. And you can use it on yourself so I certainly wouldn't throw it away.

ASPCA | Tea Tree Oil

Veterinarywatch : Tea Tree Oil Toxicity


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## GatorBytes

Tea tree oil is NOT meant to be ingested - there in lies the toxicity issue.

Full strength - no, has to be diluted in a carrier oil...it is an oil so won't mix with water.


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## msvette2u

It can absorb and be toxic that way. With so many known safe items, why it with risk tea tree oil??


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## Kaluig

Good discussions as always!

Could anyone recommend a hollistic senior dry food with lamb formula (no chicken ingredients at all)? 

Igor is currently on Blue Basics for Senior Turkey and Potato but he does not seem to like it much, he liked the other Blue with Lamb and Rice but that was for adults, not seniors. He is 11 years old now.

Does anybody see a significant difference that justifies a senior formula over an adult one for 11 years old shepherd?


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## Jax08

I've never fed a senior formula. Look at the label and see what the difference is between the two. Is it more vitamins/minerals? if it's just glucosamine or other joint supplements, I would switch and get him some supplements instead.


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## msvette2u

I don't feed a senior food, no. Just regular diet from Kirkland unless the dog is allergic then we give their salmon or turkey.


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## llombardo

I have never fed senior food either. Lots of the real good foods have everything in them already.


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## Kaluig

I have some good options for his next food:

1- Blue Life Protection Lamb & Brown rice adult formula
2- Blue Life Protection Fish & Oatmeal adult formula
3- Blue Life Protection Fish & Sweet Potato adult formula
4- Welness Super 5 Mix Lamb, Barley and Salmon adult formula
5- Welness Simple Lamb & Oatmeal adult formula
6- Welness Core Grain Free Ocean adult formula

Too many choices, lamb or fish, Welness or Blue? This can get crazy but i think I will buy small bags and see which one he likes the most and works best for him.


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## GusGus

Jax08 said:


> Why not? My husband and daughter are allergic to peanuts. I had a doctor that was allergic to potatoes....how sucky would that be?! No french fries, hash browns, baked, mash, soup! LOL
> 
> As far as allergies...I often wonder what is a true allergy and what is an intolerance. Banshee (our 13 yr old) gets very gassy, to the point of panting and much discomfort, if she eats chicken but is fine with turkey and duck. It makes me wonder what is in our chicken that is causing so many issues with dogs.


I would probably lose it if I were allergic to potatoes.. I'm intolerant to milk and caffeine. Allergies are often life threatening whereas an intolerance is something that will make you ill or uncomfortable.

Milk gives me a killer stomach ache that lasts a really long time and caffeine will make me sick to the point of basically bed rest for hours and hours. But neither threaten my life.


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## zivagirl

msvette2u said:


> It can absorb and be toxic that way. With so many known safe items, why it with risk tea tree oil??


I'm going to have to do some digging. We used tea-tree shampoo as well. I wouldn't marinate a dog in it.....but wonder of the toxicity is really in the ingestion, as previously stated.


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## msvette2u

Ingestion and absorption into the skin from what I've read.


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## Jax08

zivagirl said:


> I'm going to have to do some digging. We used tea-tree shampoo as well. I wouldn't marinate a dog in it.....but wonder of the toxicity is really in the ingestion, as previously stated.


It can be absorbed

Veterinarywatch : Tea Tree Oil Toxicity



> *Australian tea tree (Melaleuca alternifolia) Oil Poisoning in three purebred cats.*
> Bischoff K, Guale F Journal of Veterinary Diagnostic Investigation 10, 208 (1998)
> 
> 
> Three Angora cats treated with undiluted tea tree oil dermal route. O. got it from a pet catalog sold as flea treatment. Within 5 hours, the first cat was hypothermic and uncoordinated, alert but unable to stand. Later that day, cat 2 was admitted comatose with severe hypothermia and dehydration. Cat 3 was conscious, nervous, trembling, and ataxic. All the cats smelled of tea tree oil. Cat 3 spent one day being treated and cat 1 spent two days being treated in the hospital but then both went home. Cat 2 died on the third day.
> The article states: Tea tree oil contains 50-60% terpenes, toxicity is "similar to other essential oils such as eucalyptus oil." _ Toxicosis in humans has resulted from ingestion of 0.5 to 1 cc tea tree oil per kg of body weight. _The 3 cats had about 20 ccs applied to them (each). Says cats may be more sensitive to this toxicosis than dogs, but that the tea tree oil toxicosis has been reported in humans, rats, dogs, and cats. Most patients have clinical signs of central nervous system depression. Dogs and cats with tea tree oil toxicosis will appear weak, obtunded, uncoordinated, ataxic, and usually have muscular tremors. Cats may exhibit signs of liver damage. _Toxic components are fat soluble and rapidly absorbed via skin and GI tract. _There is no antidote. Treatment involves general detoxification, supportive care, bathing with mild detergents, using activated charcoal if ingested.


Having said that....exactly how much TTO needs to be applied before it's toxic. Kind of like to much Vitamin E is toxic. There should only be a few drops in an entire bottle of shampoo.


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## Freestep

msvette2u said:


> Something I've also seen recommended and is okay for humans but deadly to cats and dogs is TEA TREE OIL.


Tea Tree oil is ok to use externally on dogs (NOT on cats). It is an ingredient in many shampoos, ear cleaners, hot spot sprays, etc. The important thing to remember is that, like many medications and drugs, a little bit can be medicinal, but too much is a poison. 

Here in the US, people seem to think that if a little bit is good, MORE is better. With things like Tea Tree, it's the opposite--the less you use, the better. I have used it in ear cleaners (for dogs only, never for cats) and shampoos. Basically the rule is that you don't want the dog licking it. If it's in a shampoo, it's rinsed off, and if in an ear cleaner, the dog can't lick it. If in a hot spot spray, make sure the spray also contains a bittering agent so that the dog will be discouraged from licking.

We're talking about a tiny amount of the stuff, like a few drops. I wouldn't use it straight on an animal, I'd dilute it down with alcohol, water, or a carrier oil. Yes, it can be absorbed through the skin, which is why it's very important to use a minimal amount.

Ironically, I don't take such care when I use it on myself--if I have a skin irritation or itchy spot from shaving or whatever, I dab it on straight. It really does work--it tingles, much like peppermint or eucalyptus, which helps take your mind off the irritation. It's antibacterial and antifungal too.

Cats should not come anywhere near Tea Tree, nor any other essential oil. Cats are extremely sensitive to essential oils, with the possible exception of Lavender in tiny amounts. If I want to use Lavender in my grooming shop for aromatherapy purposes, I put a little on a cotton ball and place it near the cat's cage.


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