# United States Service Dog Registry??



## Lauri & The Gang

Is this place legit??


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## Lin

No.


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## Lin

I probably shouldn't have answered so simply, lol. 

But currently there is no federally recognized certification or registry of any kind. It doesn't matter what a place claims, what they're offering (selling) is meaningless and they're in it for the money. Federal law does not require any certification or registration for service dogs. To implement such a thing is an incredibly huge undertaking with many problems that limits the current civil rights of individuals with disabilities. Solving that problem as well as financing such a thing has not yet been done.


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## ILGHAUS

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Is this place legit??


Their logo does look very official doesn't it? Even has flag stripes behind the dog. With *United States* in their name sure tends to sound impressive. They have a nice looking website with lots of information that can also be found on many other sites. 

Registration is free with this business. The ID, patches, certificates, etc. are not. 

Registration has no legal standing. They say this on their website.

Registration with this company requires no documentation just the word of the owner that dog is a Service Dog. 

Quote:
_Not affiliated with any government agency. Registrant data is based on assertions by dog owner. Registration is not required by the ADA._

I don't have the info handy right now (on this particular company) but many Internet certification and/or registration businesses are located outside of the U.S. even if they have a U.S. mail service. I looked that point up for a FL Representative who was looking into working on a new SD law. 

Concern, just again today I heard a PWD complaining about when he tried to enter a place of business with his SD. He was told he needed to present his dog's registration papers. When told there was no such official items and it was not even legal to ask for such the response was "Well there was a team that was here last week and they had registration papers." The situation ended up with the local police being asked to respond. This is something that I have read and heard many many times.


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## Lin

ILGHAUS said:


> Concern, just again today I heard a PWD complaining about when he tried to enter a place of business with his SD. He was told he needed to present his dog's registration papers. When told there was no such official items and it was not even legal to ask for such the response was "Well there was a team that was here last week and they had registration papers." The situation ended up with the local police being asked to respond. This is something that I have read and heard many many times.


I think thats one of the most dangerous and damaging parts of these companies. Currently, most businesses do not know service dog law. They're usually informed of it by those entering with a dog... Which may or may not be an actual service dog and the information spouted may or may not be actual law. So even if someone with an actual SD buys into one of these registration or certification things to present it for public access, they're making the process more difficult for the next team that follows! The business will expect paperwork, believe its ok to request it. As service dog handlers we're representing ALL service dog handlers and should be doing our part to make it easier, not harder, for the next team. 

I advise people carry around a copy of the business brief to share instead. I also have the websites bookmarked on my smartphone for easy access in a dispute. 

pre ADA reformation act business brief ADA Business Brief: Service Animals
revised definition and law Revised ADA Requirements: Service Animals


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## Lauri & The Gang

Yeah, I didn't think it was legit.

A co-owner of one of my Cresteds just had a friend "sign up" the Crested at this place. My friend now things that makes her dog a registered therapy dog and she can go places with it.

Don't worry - I will be sure to explain to her that it means basically nothing (as nicely as I possibly can).


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## Lin

Don't forget to explain the difference between service dog and therapy dog to her!


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## GSD mum

They have been around for a while as they were mentioned on old threads on SD boards. 

Pretty website and a talent with photoshop makes for a convincing scam. 

Really it's the fakers getting scammed though.. so.


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## SFGSSD

They are not "Official" just like other Service Dog registry websites are not "Official". What they are doing is within the Law, currently the LAW limits them to verify the legitimacy of the team. YES, people including "Undercover people" could get registered if they LIED. The LAW is broken by the LIARS not the USSDR.

I know the owner, he wishes he could do more than he does but the LAW limits what he can do. His website clearly states "Not affiliated with any government agency. Registrant data is based on assertions by dog owner. Registration is not required by the ADA." 

Keep in mind that the USSDR is only attempting to make life easier for PWD to avoid constant access challenge. This is not Illegal or a "Scam" what IS Illegal and a Scam is people breaking the law (lying) to be registered and identified by them or anyone. What law is broken by them? What law is broken by impersonating a disabled to gain privileges for the disabled?

With that said, there are others that CLEARLY take advantage by offering FAKE certification that the DOG is trained along with a vest etc.. The USSDR is not one of them. So if you want to go on a witch hunt with this, go after Gold Star or others that offer CERTIFICATION with nothing to back it, NOT just registration that the USSDR offers that is clearly withing the law. 
It appears that the USSDR only crime is that there website looks to nice for your liking.


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## JakodaCD OA

> Registration is free with this business. The ID, patches, certificates, etc. are not.
> 
> Registration has no legal standing. They say this on their website.
> 
> Registration with this company requires no documentation just the word of the owner that dog is a Service Dog.
> 
> Quote:
> _Not affiliated with any government agency. Registrant data is based on assertions by dog owner. Registration is not required by the ADA._


So why do it? For the money? I'm sure some people will fall into this , maybe honest people , not realizing that it's really not a benefit for them.


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## SFGSSD

JakodaCD OA said:


> So why do it? For the money? I'm sure some people will fall into this , maybe honest people , not realizing that it's really not a benefit for them.


Why do it? To make life a little easier when out in public with a SD. Is it "Official" no, but it sure beats going out with a naked dog and being asked if it is a SD every 20 feet or better yet, NO PETS ALLOWED and explaining what the SD is and what it does, over and over and over again. The SD is supposed to make life easier for the disabled, not a target to be harassed every 10 min. Does identification help? Yes, is it required? no, but the reality is that the likelihood of challenge is less with identification. Is that required? NO, Is a vest even required under federal law? NO, but lets be real here. Because it is not required by law, it does not mean that going out without anything will protect you from being harassed every 10 minutes. 

Do NON disabled take advantage of identification and SD registries? YES, but they are the ones breaking the law. Please do not loose focus on that fact.


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## JakodaCD OA

While I understand that having a registration of some sort makes life easier for an SD owner. 

And I also agree that there are alot of non disabled that take advantage and break the law.

I guess my concern is, isn't USSDR kind of taking advantage of disabled people by basically selling people the paperwork by just taking their 'word' of the SD owner(s) that their dogs are trained? 

Maybe I"m missing something, but to me, even tho this org isn't breaking the law and specifies everything up front, why pay them, when one can get on the computer and basically print out the info as Lin posted for free? 


Maybe I'm not explaining correctly what I mean


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## ILGHAUS

This company seems to be one of the "better ones" but I also dislike their particular use of visuals and wording.

Logo which is on their registry paperwork, patches, and ID cards makes use of the red and white stripes and using "United States" on all items.

Their tags look very official:
REGISTERED
ASSISTANCE DOG
US SERVICE DOG
REGISTRY.ORG
345 (This # used as example)

There is a difference between "professional" and "official" in marketing and presentation. 

Shop

Hey all good marketing on the founders part but the presentation implies that this company is something which it is not.

*.org* was set up for organization which was and most still think of as for a type of group, that is in good part a non-profit -- not for a business. 

Again show that and while it may make it easier for one team the chances go way up that it will be expected for the next team. 

If someone wants to set up a registry for ID purposes then they can do so without the implied connection with such an official standing.

They can sell cards not to show someone the dogs working dog status but with information such as dog's micro chip # and company, owner's contact info, and other emergency information.

They can sell cards with ADA info including hot line # to the Dept of Justice.

At this time there is no reason for any of the rest.


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## JakodaCD OA

Tj, thanks for explaining , I admit I'm not real 'up' on the in's and out's, but understand your explanation


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## Lin

GSD mum said:


> They have been around for a while as they were mentioned on old threads on SD boards.
> 
> Pretty website and a talent with photoshop makes for a convincing scam.
> 
> Really it's the fakers getting scammed though.. so.


Not true, the real handlers are the ones who then have trouble out in public because businesses think its ok to ask for registration or paperwork. They either have to spend extra time arguing with the business that could be spent just trying to run errands like everyone else, possibly have to call the police to mitigate, or give up (which makes it even worse for the next handler) and find another place to efficiently run their errands. 

Registration is free. What good is that? Again it means nothing, helps us none as its not as if businesses are going to keep a laptop up front to check the site for registration even if it was federal, and if they did so then this starts limiting the current rights of the PWD. 

But the site isn't about registration. The free registration brings you in. Then they try to sell you their products, its about making money not about assisting SD handlers. 

You can buy patches, vests, forms of ID from MANY places. There is no reason to have a special patch from a special registry, especially because like I said already that causes problems by businesses expecting everyone to then have that. 

Nothing is required to be worn by the dog while working, but having a harness or vest that helps the public know can make public access easier. But these can be purchased anywhere. They can be made at home if you sew. And the actual law can be printed out from home and carried around to assist in educating businesses. The DOJ phone number can be preprogrammed in to your phone so the business can call them and ask questions about service dog law and access. There are many things that can be done to ease the individuals experience without making things harder for the next team.


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## SFGSSD

Lin said:


> Not true, the real handlers are the ones who then have trouble out in public because businesses think its ok to ask for registration or paperwork. They either have to spend extra time arguing with the business that could be spent just trying to run errands like everyone else, possibly have to call the police to mitigate, or give up (which makes it even worse for the next handler) and find another place to efficiently run their errands.
> 
> Registration is free. What good is that? Again it means nothing, helps us none as its not as if businesses are going to keep a laptop up front to check the site for registration even if it was federal, and if they did so then this starts limiting the current rights of the PWD.
> 
> But the site isn't about registration. The free registration brings you in. Then they try to sell you their products, its about making money not about assisting SD handlers.
> 
> You can buy patches, vests, forms of ID from MANY places. There is no reason to have a special patch from a special registry, especially because like I said already that causes problems by businesses expecting everyone to then have that.
> 
> Nothing is required to be worn by the dog while working, but having a harness or vest that helps the public know can make public access easier. But these can be purchased anywhere. They can be made at home if you sew. And the actual law can be printed out from home and carried around to assist in educating businesses. The DOJ phone number can be preprogrammed in to your phone so the business can call them and ask questions about service dog law and access. There are many things that can be done to ease the individuals experience without making things harder for the next team.


This is a point if view that has been batted around for quite some time.

1. SD registries DO NOT make it more difficult the illegitimate SD/handler does 
2. Businesses that are educated do not ask for ID or documents (this makes it easy for the faker)
3. SD Schools (very legitimate) give credentials upon graduation (do you want to stop that too?)
4. If people are going to break the law it would only make sense to make it more difficult for them to do so. In other words, boasting that nothing more is required than your word is just opening the door WIDE open to fakers. If you are OK with that, then complaining about the fakers is like you complaining about the insects but also complaining about closing the doors and windows the would help keep them out. Yeah I know you don't need doors and windows yada yada yada.

Hate to say it but business owners and the general public has rights too. They should be able to tell without a doubt if the team is legitimate or not. The way things are now, they are mostly afraid to challenge for fear of legal repercussions. This again opens the door wide open to fakers that give SD's a bad name. Stop the fakers you say? How do you do that with current laws and enabling by circumstance? Blaming the SD registry is not the answer, as they can obviously fake it without them, without an ID, Without a Vest, without being registered... CAN'T THEY!? Of course they can, and why are business owners more and more afraid to challenge a faker than a real SD? Because with a real one they hope they are real, with a fake one, they hope they are not wrong and get sued. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Lin

SFGSSD said:


> This is a point if view that has been batted around for quite some time.
> 
> 1. SD registries DO NOT make it more difficult the illegitimate SD/handler does
> 2. Businesses that are educated do not ask for ID or documents (this makes it easy for the faker)
> 3. SD Schools (very legitimate) give credentials upon graduation (do you want to stop that too?)
> 4. If people are going to break the law it would only make sense to make it more difficult for them to do so. In other words, boasting that nothing more is required than your word is just opening the door WIDE open to fakers. If you are OK with that, then complaining about the fakers is like you complaining about the insects but also complaining about closing the doors and windows the would help keep them out. Yeah I know you don't need doors and windows yada yada yada.
> 
> Hate to say it but business owners and the general public has rights too. They should be able to tell without a doubt if the team is legitimate or not. The way things are now, they are mostly afraid to challenge for fear of legal repercussions. This again opens the door wide open to fakers that give SD's a bad name. Stop the fakers you say? How do you do that with current laws and enabling by circumstance? Blaming the SD registry is not the answer, as they can obviously fake it without them, without an ID, Without a Vest, without being registered... CAN'T THEY!? Of course they can, and why are business owners more and more afraid to challenge a faker than a real SD? Because with a real one they hope they are real, with a fake one, they hope they are not wrong and get sued.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


1. Incorrect. Both do. Like I said, even when legitimate handlers bring in registration or certification papers (which are meaningless by law) it causes problems due to businesses thinking everyone should have said paperwork. Examples have already been given. I've seen it myself as a service dog handler. This site, registration is free but completely meaningless, if you want the certificate of said registration you have to pay $50 bucks. $50 bucks for a meaningless piece of paper, for what? To ease public access as your previous post? Its better for all parties involved to print out the actual laws for FREE from home and bring it in to businesses to ease public access, educate the business, and assist all parties. 

2. Businesses that are correctly educated. In these cases, since they aren't asking they aren't going to be presented with the registration certificate from said website, and are therefor irrelevant to this conversation. 

3. Schools give credentials upon graduation that the dog met their requirements for graduation. This means nothing in the eyes of the law, the meaning has only to do with the specific organization that trained the dog. If you mean do I think that handlers should not carry this around with them and use it for public access, yes. Because its meaningless in the eyes of the law, and can cause problems if businesses as a result think they are legally allowed to request paperwork for access and that all handlers should be carrying it. If you think I have a problem with the school giving FREE credentials to graduates, you're just being ridiculous. I have certificates from my dogs graduations from various training classes and organizations. I didn't pay a fee to receive the paperwork. I do not carry the paperwork with me or present it for public access. 

4. Following the law is the best protection for BOTH handlers and the businesses. I have been on both sides of the equation, catching fakers and being harassed as a handler. Someone who knows the laws and knows what they CAN ask, and what they CAN do has protection. A business cannot request paperwork. They cannot ask what the individuals disability is. They CAN ask what kind of service dog the dog is. They CAN ask what tasks the dog has been trained to mitigate the disability. I would also advocate for them to be allowed to request a demonstration of a task as well. Businesses CAN ask an animal to leave if it is being disruptive or causing problems to the business such as shedding all over the floor (talking ungroomed dogs here), barking, tries to eliminate inside, is bothering customers by behavior, is sniffing or trying to eat food in a grocery store etc. 

If a business believes a service dog is not a real service dog due to the behavior or the handlers inability to answer the questions, then by all means request they leave the premises. If the dog was an actual SD, the business is protected and still did the right thing by knowing and following the law. They can even go so far as to sue the individual if they feel strongly enough, where it will be up to the judges discretion if the dog meets requirements to be a SD and the individual is legally disabled or not. The fakers that I have run into could not answer the simple questions correctly, and their dogs did not behave as SDs should. Red flags being answers such as "the dog makes me feel better" "the dog is my therapy dog" "the dog is for emotional support" "I cuddle the dog when anxious" and so forth. It would be rare to find an individual who is faking and yet knows the law and has a very obediently trained dog, in which case it sucks to allow them to slide by but at least they aren't as damaging to the reputation of SDs and handlers. One step at a time, first we need businesses to actually care about their rights and learning the law and stop the obvious ones or we aren't going to get anywhere with law changes.

As a building manager I've run into individuals who purchased fake certificates deeming their dogs SDs for housing reasons. It was incredibly easy to tell they were faking when they attempted to dodge my questions. Imagine their surprise when they came to meet me in person and found out I had a SD. I've had landlords who when I explained the laws and volunteered to bring in the laws printed out and speak to their employees, declined my offer and took me at face value. I was very disappointed. It doesn't benefit the legit handlers when businesses just nod and continue on, they can be taken advantage of by a faker and then once they have a bias its the legitimate handlers that will suffer. I spend a lot of time doing SD education, and I really wish more on the business side would be willing to actually listen, read the paperwork, let me speak to the entire employee base.


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## GSD mum

The site is a bate and catch. They bait with 'unofficial (useless and hurts legitimate teams if unofficial) registry' and catch with the $50 false safety net of 'certification' (which also hurts legitimate teams) It's a scam. 

Until there is no national/international recognized registration and certification yet. Period. I personally can't wait until there is. It seems everyone is waiting for someone else to do it. 

Creating a fake or temp or whatever is just a scam.


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## SFGSSD

Lin said:


> 1. Incorrect. Both do. Like I said, even when legitimate handlers bring in registration or certification papers (which are meaningless by law) it causes problems due to businesses thinking everyone should have said paperwork. Examples have already been given. I've seen it myself as a service dog handler. This site, registration is free but completely meaningless, if you want the certificate of said registration you have to pay $50 bucks. $50 bucks for a meaningless piece of paper, for what? To ease public access as your previous post? Its better for all parties involved to print out the actual laws for FREE from home and bring it in to businesses to ease public access, educate the business, and assist all parties.


This is a matter of opinion and not fact. Registration? Is it meaningless by law? I would go along with that however, the USSDR asks the same questions anyone can legally ask and the answers are documented. DO some people LIE? YES, but they also lie without it, if the fakers are determined to break the law they will. Legitimate owner trainers that have a dog registered with the USSDR do not have nearly as much access problems as they do when they go without a vest and registration card. (I know this from an experiment I performed. Went with a dog naked, and went with a dog vested with my logo SFGSSD, also legitimate owner trainer teams that did the same with USSDR equipment and without.) Maybe this is PERSONAL PREFERENCE, and if you prefer to just print out the law and explain it multiple times with nothing to back yourself up with but a print out, that is your choice. It is not wrong to do so, neither is it wrong for legitimate teams that don't want to be bothered as much as you do.
This scenario has been proofed by many I know including myself. From what I discovered, it makes life easier, not harder.
The "FREE" statement gives me a chuckle, NOTHING in life is "FREE". The "FREE" dog you can get from CCI, is that really "FREE"? If so, then I guess they can give back the 40+ Million they get in funding to produce an overly billed out (to the IRS) dog. What were they billed out at last I checked... Oh yeah $38,000.00 a dog, to INCLUDE the certificate, vest and credentials. for this "FREE DOG". Electric costs money, Paper costs money, envelopes cost money, Ink costs money, Postage costs money, the materials to make vests costs money... even printing out the law costs money, people get paid for their time, there ink, internet, electric, paper etc... so this "FREE" term your throwing around is FALSE.

Certification meaningless? Not true... the LAW states "Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities." Trainers and orgs that certify, certify that the team actually was "Trained" to comply with the law and beyond.

(On a side note) "ADI accredited" facilities only "Certify" that "the team completed there program", convenient for them when a noticeable percentage of ADI accredited SD's out in public could not pass a CGC never mind their PAT. There "accredited" schools offer the BEST SD's? For FREE? now I am not just chuckling, I am in hysterical laughter. 

Getting a FAKE "Certification" that the dog has been trained when they have not personally evaluated the team... the USSDR does NOT offer that. But there are OTHERS that do and I agree they need to be stopped.

If you think the USSDR is a "scam" and does anything illegitimate to "Certify" the team, think again, they DO NOT and are NOT a SCAM, they are doing everything they can legitimately within the LAW to try and make life easier for legitimate teams. Just because some do not agree with Service Dog Central and "Her way" of doing things, does not make it wrong, it makes it a practice SHE does not prefer. Service Dog Central is NOT the "Authority" legally or otherwise when it comes to Service Dog's. IT IS OPINION based on the owner of the website. I do not have a problem with her "OPINIONS" but I DO have a problem with things posted that are hypocritical and have a obvious slanderous and liable content. Maybe that is why the site's disclaimer says they are not responsible for anything. 



Lin said:


> 2. Businesses that are correctly educated. In these cases, since they aren't asking they aren't going to be presented with the registration certificate from said website, and are therefor irrelevant to this conversation.


NOT TRUE, they are not asking because they are afraid of the “sue happy” people, they choose the high road because they feel it is better to not say anything than get involved. HOWEVER do they WISH they COULD clearly identify ALL legitimate teams? You bet they do. Currently it is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. The SDS project has aspirations to change that, will the code be adopted by the federal government? No guarantee, but SDS is determined to try to DO SOMETHING besides complain.



Lin said:


> 3. Schools give credentials upon graduation that the dog met their requirements for graduation. This means nothing in the eyes of the law, the meaning has only to do with the specific organization that trained the dog. If you mean do I think that handlers should not carry this around with them and use it for public access, yes. Because its meaningless in the eyes of the law, and can cause problems if businesses as a result think they are legally allowed to request paperwork for access and that all handlers should be carrying it. If you think I have a problem with the school giving FREE credentials to graduates, you're just being ridiculous. I have certificates from my dogs graduations from various training classes and organizations. I didn't pay a fee to receive the paperwork. I do not carry the paperwork with me or present it for public access.


Means nothing in the eyes of the law? Again, Not true... the LAW states "Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities." If the team is certified that they have been "Trained" as the law clearly states, I would not call that meaningless. Especially from a legitimate SD trainer or School. If you have doubts, please refer to the ADA document you have a link to on your signature line.
Here we go with that “FREE” word again. NO IT IS NOT “FREE”. Someone is paying for the time and materials. Either the PWD is or someone else is. The Liberal “FREE MONEY” mentality really hits a nerve with me. JMO


Lin said:


> 4. Following the law is the best protection for BOTH handlers and the businesses. I have been on both sides of the equation, catching fakers and being harassed as a handler. Someone who knows the laws and knows what they CAN ask, and what they CAN do has protection. A business cannot request paperwork. They cannot ask what the individuals disability is. They CAN ask what kind of service dog the dog is. They CAN ask what tasks the dog has been trained to mitigate the disability. I would also advocate for them to be allowed to request a demonstration of a task as well. Businesses CAN ask an animal to leave if it is being disruptive or causing problems to the business such as shedding all over the floor (talking ungroomed dogs here), barking, tries to eliminate inside, is bothering customers by behavior, is sniffing or trying to eat food in a grocery store etc.


Please refer to the answers I gave to these statements above. 



Lin said:


> If a business believes a service dog is not a real service dog due to the behavior or the handlers inability to answer the questions, then by all means request they leave the premises. If the dog was an actual SD, the business is protected and still did the right thing by knowing and following the law. They can even go so far as to sue the individual if they feel strongly enough, where it will be up to the judges discretion if the dog meets requirements to be a SD and the individual is legally disabled or not. The fakers that I have run into could not answer the simple questions correctly, and their dogs did not behave as SDs should. Red flags being answers such as "the dog makes me feel better" "the dog is my therapy dog" "the dog is for emotional support" "I cuddle the dog when anxious" and so forth. It would be rare to find an individual who is faking and yet knows the law and has a very obediently trained dog, in which case it sucks to allow them to slide by but at least they aren't as damaging to the reputation of SDs and handlers. One step at a time, first we need businesses to actually care about their rights and learning the law and stop the obvious ones or we aren't going to get anywhere with law changes.


The law changes are better but not good enough, if it was we would not still have the problems that exist today, even after the law changes 2 years ago.



Lin said:


> As a building manager I've run into individuals who purchased fake certificates deeming their dogs SDs for housing reasons. It was incredibly easy to tell they were faking when they attempted to dodge my questions. Imagine their surprise when they came to meet me in person and found out I had a SD. I've had landlords who when I explained the laws and volunteered to bring in the laws printed out and speak to their employees, declined my offer and took me at face value. I was very disappointed. It doesn't benefit the legit handlers when businesses just nod and continue on, they can be taken advantage of by a faker and then once they have a bias its the legitimate handlers that will suffer. I spend a lot of time doing SD education, and I really wish more on the business side would be willing to actually listen, read the paperwork, let me speak to the entire employee base.


Your a nice person for doing this, and I applaud you for your intestinal fortitude with this. But not everyone is you, nor must they be. People are "Human", unless the loopholes can be closed realistically for EVERYONE, problems will still remain.


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## SFGSSD

ILGHAUS said:


> This company seems to be one of the "better ones" but I also dislike their particular use of visuals and wording.
> 
> Logo which is on their registry paperwork, patches, and ID cards makes use of the red and white stripes and using "United States" on all items.
> 
> Their tags look very official:
> REGISTERED
> ASSISTANCE DOG
> US SERVICE DOG
> REGISTRY.ORG
> 345 (This # used as example)
> 
> There is a difference between "professional" and "official" in marketing and presentation.
> 
> Shop
> 
> Hey all good marketing on the founders part but the presentation implies that this company is something which it is not.
> 
> *.org* was set up for organization which was and most still think of as for a type of group, that is in good part a non-profit -- not for a business.
> 
> Again show that and while it may make it easier for one team the chances go way up that it will be expected for the next team.
> 
> If someone wants to set up a registry for ID purposes then they can do so without the implied connection with such an official standing.
> 
> They can sell cards not to show someone the dogs working dog status but with information such as dog's micro chip # and company, owner's contact info, and other emergency information.
> 
> They can sell cards with ADA info including hot line # to the Dept of Justice.
> 
> At this time there is no reason for any of the rest.


TJ,
Do you not frown on the "MARKETING" and antics of ADI and how their "Accreditation" that "Implies" a guarantee that they are the ONLY ones with the best SD's? Never mind the underhanded dealings in connection with HR 1627? Do you frown upon ADI accredited orgs that that produce non functioning SD's that are politically swept under the rug and endorsed by Service Dog Central?
Don't mean to put you in the spot here TJ, but these are LEGITIMATE questions. You did not answer some of them before but I would appreciate an answer now. 

The Department Of Justice encourage's reproduction and distribution of their information. THIS IS A GOOD THING, but you spinning it into a negative because the USSDR uses there number for people to call an "Official" agency to ask questions in regards to Service Dogs? This is a GOOD THING, NOT A BAD thing. Does it mean that the USSDR is PART of the DOJ? NO, but if I say you can call the Police if you want does not imply that I am a COP.

This is just a ridiculous as me saying I do not like the name "Service Dog Central" Central what? Central Intelligence? Well... that is definitely debatable. But they have "Good Marketing"... I know you are associated with them so do I dare call hypocrite in this? 

Service Dog Central is NOT central ANYTHING, They are not "OFFICIAL" anything! From the looks of what some of the content consists of, the reality of Service Dog Central content only compares to a supermarket tabloid, nothing more.

Sorry if I seem harsh with this post, but the truth is the truth.


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## Xeph

I'm with Lin all the way on this. Certification/registration papers don't make MY life easier. I certainly don't want to be carrying paperwork everywhere with me.

And with certification junk like this, it IS meaningless in the eyes of the law. It doesn't prove the dog was trained, it proves you printed out a piece of paper unless the dog comes from a program (and some programs out there are sketchy)


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## SFGSSD

Xeph said:


> I'm with Lin all the way on this. Certification/registration papers don't make MY life easier. I certainly don't want to be carrying paperwork everywhere with me.
> 
> And with certification junk like this, it IS meaningless in the eyes of the law. It doesn't prove the dog was trained, it proves you printed out a piece of paper unless the dog comes from a program (and some programs out there are sketchy)


To be clear the USSDR DOES NOT "certify" SD teams or DOGS. They only register on the handlers merit, this is the only thing they can legally do. They are doing NOTHING wrong.

If Identification of any kind does not make your life easier with a SD, I would love to see you out in public in a strange area with nothing but your dog and a leash, no vest, no papers, no ID. It will be interesting to see how "easy" your life is at that point. I can guarantee that you would be stopped constantly, I hardly call that an easy life with a SD.

The rest I agree with and it is something SDS is working on.


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## JakodaCD OA

well it's pretty easy for anyone to buy a vest, have some papers done up, get a doctors note, whatever, for free.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Here is why I asked.

One of my Cresteds, co-owned by a friend, was just 'registered' with that website.

The dog was never evaluated IN PERSON. the co-owner (who is a wonderful woman but doesn't know anything about the laws behind service dogs) wanted to get the dog started in Therapy work.

She has a friend that judges CGC tests and told her about this registry.

My friend - the co-owner - told her friend (the CGC judge) about how well the dog did at the Illinois Kennel Club show last weekend. It was a benched show and there were tons of people. Lots of petting, having her picture taken with people and being held by strangers.

Based on my friend's verbal description of that event her friend 'verified' the dog was suitable for therapy work and had her registered with that website.

Now - as the dogs breeder I KNOW the dog has what it takes to become a Therapy Dog and I will get my friend, the dog's owner (co-owner) to do it right BUT ...

As far as my friend was concerned the dog is now 'registered' and she can take it anywhere to do therapy.

I'm sorry but that is just false advertising. Allowing anyone to SAY their dog is a Service Dog when they are doing everything online.

The registration is free so there's no money being made (that I can see).

How can these people keep Joe Blow off the street from registering their dog when all they ask for is the dogs birth date, some pictures and where they got the dog.

Maybe they had the right thoughts and maybe they think most people are honest but they are actually making it HARDER for legit SD and their people. Giving out a "registration number" to anyone that fills in the forms correctly gives them the idea that their dog is now an official - LEGAL - SD and has all those rights.

And when dogs that are NOT trained SDs go out in public and cause problems they make it harder for the real SDs to do their job.


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## Brighthorizondogs

It isn't the fault of the site that your fnow the difference between a therapy dog and a service dog. Obviously she did not read the website or she would have found that out. By registering. Aer dog there and taking it everywhere she is violating the law. Maybe her dog does behave well enough but she probably isn't disabled if she is wanting to visit people and it doesn't sound like if she is the dog is trained to help her. That is her mistake. 

Now as for being ripped off by the site their patches and id kit are a good deal. Their patches are $5 each. That is super cheap. When I have custom program patches made they cost $5.50 ea in small batches. Even in large batches they aren't making much off them. The package deal is pretty reasonable. Lets break it down by comparing it to other sites offering similar products. So activedogs.com for example offers similar itens so I'm going tonuse them to compare. They have plastic id cards instead of cheap laminated ones. 

So for $50 from ussdr you get a patch, a tag, 2 ID cards, and a certificate saying your dog is registered (not certified). However since the certificate is pretty much useless we won't count it.

At activedogs 
$14.95 for a round specialty patch and they do sell a certified service dog patch Specialty Patches for Service and Therapy Dogs
$11.99 for a tag they did have one that could be personalized but this was the closest looking but didn't offer personalization. Engraved Plastic Service Dog Access Tag
$24.99 each per plastic id card which has the option of being ordered to say certifed service dog also Horizontal ID Badge
So all that comes to $76.92 and about $85 with shipping.

So how can you say ussdr are ripping people off when their kit is cheaper than other places? Why don't you go target the place on skymall offering crappy quality service dog kits for $150-175 Advertising to fly with your dog and go everywhere claiming almost anyone can qualify when you go to their website.


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## Lin

SFGSSD said:


> This is a matter of opinion and not fact. Registration? Is it meaningless by law? I would go along with that however, the USSDR asks the same questions anyone can legally ask and the answers are documented. DO some people LIE? YES, but they also lie without it, if the fakers are determined to break the law they will.


Where are all the legitimate service dog handlers that are encouraging registration of USSDR? I haven't seen legimate handlers who have paid into registries like this. I've seen fakers, and those like the OP mentioned who don't know better. Closest to legimate handlers using the site are those that are OTs still training their dogs and don't yet understand SD law, and think the registry has meaning. Doing something that is damaging to other SD teams for personal gain (easier public access) is pretty selfish, and those that have fallen for websites such as this change their minds once they understand info such as presented in this thread. 



> Legitimate owner trainers that have a dog registered with the USSDR do not have nearly as much access problems as they do when they go without a vest and registration card. (I know this from an experiment I performed. Went with a dog naked, and went with a dog vested with my logo SFGSSD, also legitimate owner trainer teams that did the same with USSDR equipment and without.) Maybe this is PERSONAL PREFERENCE, and if you prefer to just print out the law and explain it multiple times with nothing to back yourself up with but a print out, that is your choice. It is not wrong to do so, neither is it wrong for legitimate teams that don't want to be bothered as much as you do. This scenario has been proofed by many I know including myself. From what I discovered, it makes life easier, not harder.


As I've already stated, the same "gains" that are available for the legitimate service dog handler are also available without paying additional information to a website that makes things more difficult for the next SD team. This is the goal of SD teams, easier access. Once someone realizes the mistakes they have made, they would not advocate for others to repeat them. It makes no sense to pay a special organization because it claims to be a registry for things that could be acquired cheaper elsewhere. I purchase my patches from another SD handler that has an embroidery machine and sells them. I made my own custom saddlebags for my dogs working harness because I didn't find a product available that met my needs. I'm not going to pay extra money for a specific patch that says USSDR, when USSDR does NOT mean anything in the eyes of the law, and making businesses think it does causes problems for the next handler. I'd rather actually EDUCATE the business on SD law by bringing in actual law from official websites (DOJ). 

Its not personal preference. Its about advocating for the needs of the PWD and service dog community. There is absolutely NOTHING that a USSDR patch or certificate offers that a patch from anywhere else and actual ADA business brief does not. And the actual law offers more than a $50 certificate from a website that means nothing in the eyes of the law. There is just absolutely no gain. The "free" registry means nothing, because no one will ever know the dog was registered. As I said, no business has a laptop up front and is checking for dogs to be registered with the site. And if they did, that would be causing problems for legitimate handlers who are NOT registered with the site. 

They're selling overpriced patches, meaningless certificates and more in the name of easier public access. I think affordable service dog gear and educating on the laws makes for much easier public access. I'm pretty sure other handlers agree. 



> The "FREE" statement gives me a chuckle, NOTHING in life is "FREE". The "FREE" dog you can get from CCI, is that really "FREE"? If so, then I guess they can give back the 40+ Million they get in funding to produce an overly billed out (to the IRS) dog. What were they billed out at last I checked... Oh yeah $38,000.00 a dog, to INCLUDE the certificate, vest and credentials. for this "FREE DOG". Electric costs money, Paper costs money, envelopes cost money, Ink costs money, Postage costs money, the materials to make vests costs money... even printing out the law costs money, people get paid for their time, there ink, internet, electric, paper etc... so this "FREE" term your throwing around is FALSE.


If the service dog handler does not have access to a local library and 15 cents per page to print off a couple pages from the DOJ they have no business caring for a service dog. 

If the service dog handler does not have the 15 cents per page to print off a couple pages from the DOJ, how are they affording the $50 certificate from USSDR? 

The costs to acquire a SD, and who they were paid for, are not relevant to discussing pros and cons of a registry website. 



> Certification meaningless? Not true... the LAW states "Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities." Trainers and orgs that certify, certify that the team actually was "Trained" to comply with the law and beyond.


It is meaningless when discussing public access, because the law does not recognize the certification or distinguish differences between certified and uncertified dogs. The only meaning is in relevance to the organization that gave the certification. 

Again, I have many certificates that say my dogs have passed specific training classes and graduated from organizations. They are meaningless in the eyes of the law and in reference to public access. I do not carry them around with me, I do not advocate for others to carry them around. I do think they should be kept in the dogs training log in the event an individual goes before a judge. But they have no business being used in public access disputes. 



> (On a side note) "ADI accredited" facilities only "Certify" that "the team completed there program", convenient for them when a noticeable percentage of ADI accredited SD's out in public could not pass a CGC never mind their PAT. There "accredited" schools offer the BEST SD's? For FREE? now I am not just chuckling, I am in hysterical laughter.
> 
> Getting a FAKE "Certification" that the dog has been trained when they have not personally evaluated the team... the USSDR does NOT offer that. But there are OTHERS that do and I agree they need to be stopped.
> 
> If you think the USSDR is a "scam" and does anything illegitimate to "Certify" the team, think again, they DO NOT and are NOT a SCAM, they are doing everything they can legitimately within the LAW to try and make life easier for legitimate teams. Just because some do not agree with Service Dog Central and "Her way" of doing things, does not make it wrong, it makes it a practice SHE does not prefer. Service Dog Central is NOT the "Authority" legally or otherwise when it comes to Service Dog's. IT IS OPINION based on the owner of the website. I do not have a problem with her "OPINIONS" but I DO have a problem with things posted that are hypocritical and have a obvious slanderous and liable content. Maybe that is why the site's disclaimer says they are not responsible for anything.


Opinions of ADI are not relevant to this thread. USSDR does not offer "certification" but they offer a $50 certificate of registration. Pretty fine line you're trying to argue there. 
Shop

Opinions on Service Dog Central are also irrelevant to this discussion. 




> NOT TRUE, they are not asking because they are afraid of the “sue happy” people, they choose the high road because they feel it is better to not say anything than get involved. HOWEVER do they WISH they COULD clearly identify ALL legitimate teams? You bet they do. Currently it is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. The SDS project has aspirations to change that, will the code be adopted by the federal government? No guarantee, but SDS is determined to try to DO SOMETHING besides complain.


Businesses that do not understand the law and are afraid are NOT the aim of legitimate SD handlers or SD advocates. Again, educating businesses on the law and how to use it to protect themselves is in the best aim of SD handlers. This is why I recommend that handlers carry copies of the law to distribute to businesses that approach them. It goes much further in the long run to ease public access for all parties than show a certificate from USSDR that the dog has been registered. 

Changing the law is meaningless if businesses do not understand the law and use it to their best interests. I hope you're able to find a solution that addresses all of the current problems with preventing SD fakers while protecting SD handlers. I will continue to advocate for businesses to be educated on the current law. 



> Means nothing in the eyes of the law? Again, Not true... the LAW states "Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities." If the team is certified that they have been "Trained" as the law clearly states, I would not call that meaningless. Especially from a legitimate SD trainer or School. If you have doubts, please refer to the ADA document you have a link to on your signature line.
> Here we go with that “FREE” word again. NO IT IS NOT “FREE”. Someone is paying for the time and materials. Either the PWD is or someone else is. The Liberal “FREE MONEY” mentality really hits a nerve with me. JMO


I do not have an ADA document in my signature line. I have posted links to ADA information from the DOJ concerning SDs, and nothing I have said contradict that. 

Again, it is meaningless in the eyes of the law. Because the law does not distinguish what a SD trainer is or what SD training organizations are legitimate. A certificate from a school that is churning out untrained dogs has equal bearing to a certificate from a school that churns out the best trained dogs, as does a certificate from a trainer that an OT trained with, and so forth. They mean nothing to public access and are not recognized by the law. 

I've already said that they mean the dog met the specific requirements for the organization that gave the certificate. But in the eyes of the law and public access, they are meaningless. If you know of law that addresses certification and public access (other than stating that its not required) please give your source so the rest of us can read it. 

Its really picking at semantics to say its not free to print out paperwork from the DOJ from home. But ok, it has a minimal cost. One must have access to online from home with a printer and paper or access to a public library and some change for the cost per sheet. However if the handler cannot afford that, they shouldn't be caring for a dog. And it still is free to program the DOJ access line in to ones telephone. If one cannot afford a cell phone, there are programs that subsidize them for those on government assistance such as disability. 

That said, I don't understand your argument. Its not free to print out paperwork that shows the law, its better to pay $50 for a certificate from an online registry that is not authorized by the federal government?



> Your a nice person for doing this, and I applaud you for your intestinal fortitude with this. But not everyone is you, nor must they be. People are "Human", unless the loopholes can be closed realistically for EVERYONE, problems will still remain.


Everyone has the ability to print out the ADA business brief of service animals, and it does not require more work than registering for USSDR online and does not require the costs to purchase a USSDR certificate of registration.


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## Lin

Brighthorizondogs said:


> So how can you say ussdr are ripping people off when their kit is cheaper than other places? Why don't you go target the place on skymall offering crappy quality service dog kits for $150-175 Advertising to fly with your dog and go everywhere claiming almost anyone can qualify when you go to their website.


People have the freedom to choose where they want to spend their money and who they want to support with it. None of these items are required for SD access, and purchasing a kit from ANYWHERE is not required. I've paid between $2 and $5 for my patches and supported another SD handler who worked from home while doing so. 

If someone wants to buy their dog gear from this website they are entitled to. But the gear from this website means nothing more than the gear from any other website which needs to be known. As said earlier, its a "bait and switch" type operation where they bring you in with the "free" online registration when the purpose is their store for profit. I find that shady, and will not support them with my business due to this and the problems with registration in the SD community as a whole.


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## SFGSSD

Lin said:


> People have the freedom to choose where they want to spend their money and who they want to support with it. None of these items are required for SD access, and purchasing a kit from ANYWHERE is not required. I've paid between $2 and $5 for my patches and supported another SD handler who worked from home while doing so.
> 
> If someone wants to buy their dog gear from this website they are entitled to. But the gear from this website means nothing more than the gear from any other website which needs to be known. As said earlier, its a "bait and switch" type operation where they bring you in with the "free" online registration when the purpose is their store for profit. I find that shady, and will not support them with my business due to this and the problems with registration in the SD community as a whole.


Your problem is just your personal preference as to where YOU want to spend your money, so, you BUY your stuff elsewhere? Gee I thought anything identifying your dog as a SD would not make your life easier. Hmmmmm interesting. Remember the political statement I made about you? Well here is you answering your own question.
Putting down anyone doing the right thing just because you may not agree with them is the real wrong here. Remember lying by omission is still lying. Keep that in mind the next time you or your friends on here attempt to slant the truth. 


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## Lin

SFGSSD said:


> Your problem is just your personal preference as to where YOU want to spend your money, so, you BUY your stuff elsewhere? Gee I thought anything identifying your dog as a SD would not make your life easier. Hmmmmm interesting. Remember the political statement I made about you? Well here is you answering your own question.
> Putting down anyone doing the right thing just because you may not agree with them is the real wrong here. Remember lying by omission is still lying. Keep that in mind the next time you or your friends on here attempt to slant the truth.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You must not have read my posts thoroughly which details the problem I have with the said website, and registration as a whole. 

I've never said identifying the SD as a SD was a problem. I've repeated that there are no requirements for the dog to be identified as an SD by law. Identification does ease public access, where the individual buys identification such as a vest and patches is up to them. Registration/certification does not ease public access, it makes it more difficult due to the details I've explained. 

Registration and where to buy patches are 2 separate things. The poster I was replying to specifically said she was NOT discussing registration, and wanted to know the problem with purchasing their kit as opposed to patches from elsewhere. 

If you're going to accuse me of lying or omitting anything, you might want to work on your reading comprehension skills first. 

I'm not sure what my claimed political agenda is, or who my "friends*" are, and I haven't attempted to slant the truth in any way. My posts speak for themselves. 

When all else fails, ad hominem?

*Seriously, who are my friends? You don't know me, I don't know you. I'm pretty darn sure you don't know my friends. Why bring so many irrelevant topics in to the discussion?


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## Lin

SFGSSD said:


> Putting down anyone doing the right thing just because you may not agree with them is the real wrong here. Remember lying by omission is still lying. Keep that in mind the next time you or your friends on here attempt to slant the truth.


Wait a minute, "right thing"? What is the right thing? Are you honestly saying that buying in to a registration website is morally better than education of actual SD law and easing the way for future legitimate SD teams?


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## Brighthorizondogs

Exactly people can buy their gear where they want and put what they want on it. Nothing says you can't make your own tags or id and use the registration number on. However recently I've known some people who have had issues with laminated cards so wanted plastic believable ones. I don't have this package as I don't need it since I have program id. However I can see how it would make life easier and I know many who simply buy the patches and not the package. Nothing says you have to buy the package. I also know people who had their own tags made with the registration number on it.


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## Lauri & The Gang

SFGSSD said:


> Putting down anyone doing the right thing just because you may not agree with them is the real wrong here. http://www.petguide.com/mobile


So, registering your SD with a website that gives you NO value for that registration is the "right thing"?


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## SFGSSD

Lin said:


> Wait a minute, "right thing"? What is the right thing? Are you honestly saying that buying in to a registration website is morally better than education of actual SD law and easing the way for future legitimate SD teams?


Education the way it is obviously is not enough. Case and point Laurie and the Gang's friend did not even know the difference between a Service Dog and a Therapy Dog. You think education is enough? There is an old saying "You can't fix stupid" most people NEED something black or white to understand, and if it helps a PWD to go about there business without being harassed as much by the Uneducated person then YES it is the right thing to do for now. 

** comment removed. Has nothing to do to further this discussion. ADMIN**


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## Lin

Brighthorizondogs said:


> Exactly people can buy their gear where they want and put what they want on it. Nothing says you can't make your own tags or id and use the registration number on. However recently I've known some people who have had issues with laminated cards so wanted plastic believable ones. I don't have this package as I don't need it since I have program id. However I can see how it would make life easier and I know many who simply buy the patches and not the package. Nothing says you have to buy the package. I also know people who had their own tags made with the registration number on it.


Now you're discussing registration, with purposefully putting the registration number on things as if it has meaning. Grey area, depending on if the individual understand that the number has no meaning* and whether or not they try to use that registration number as meaningful if approached by employees at a store. To fall back on that registration number instead of educating of the actual laws is the same problem as using a certificate of registration as if it is meaningful to public access. 

*If you understand that the registration number has no meaning, what is the point for using it?


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## Lin

SFGSSD said:


> Education the way it is obviously is not enough. Case and point Laurie and the Gang's friend did not even know the difference between a Service Dog and a Therapy Dog. You think education is enough? There is an old saying "You can't fix stupid" most people NEED something black or white to understand, and if it helps a PWD to go about there business without being harassed as much by the Uneducated person then YES it is the right thing to do for now.
> 
> ** comment removed by ADMIN**


The problem is there currently isn't enough education. Case and point the friend not knowing the difference between a service dog and therapy dog. An example of education not being enough would be someone who is completely educated in the laws, and uses that education to get around the law. Not someone who does not yet have education. Both are problems.

Yes, we need to solve this as well. But if you change the law and businesses don't even KNOW the law, changing the law didn't help. 

**response removed due to being a response to a deleted comment**


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## SFGSSD

**Comments removed by ADMIN**


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## ILGHAUS

** Response to a deleted post**


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## SFGSSD

Lin said:


> Yes, we need to solve this as well. But if you change the law and businesses don't even KNOW the law, changing the law didn't help.


It will when you get the businesses, schools and media involved.


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## SFGSSD

Confrontational comment. Removed by ADMIN


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## ILGHAUS

**quote has been removed**

Sorry I'm not reading all of these long posts going up right now because I'm popping in and out between doing other things. 

Since I'm not getting to your questions go ahead and start a Q&A thread if you want. I'll get to them as I can. But I'm not going to get into a marketing plan with you or an ethics debate.


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## Chicagocanine

Lauri & The Gang said:


> The dog was never evaluated IN PERSON. the co-owner (who is a wonderful woman but doesn't know anything about the laws behind service dogs) wanted to get the dog started in Therapy work.
> 
> She has a friend that judges CGC tests and told her about this registry.
> 
> My friend - the co-owner - told her friend (the CGC judge) about how well the dog did at the Illinois Kennel Club show last weekend. It was a benched show and there were tons of people. Lots of petting, having her picture taken with people and being held by strangers.


Where does she live? I can give you some info on therapy dog groups if you're interested.
Generally, to do animal assisted therapy dogs need to be tested, in person, by a therapy dog organization evaluator*. Depending on the organization this may entail different things. In some cases they must also do observed visits in a facility without and then with their dog (if it is a group that is locally based, this is often the case.) In some cases they may require taking classes (IIRC Delta society does) before the test.
Some of the national organizations just have the test requirement alone, some also require you to re-take it periodically. 
If you go with a national org, you generally are on your own finding a place to volunteer.
If you go locally, some local orgs have their own test and other requirements, some "certify" and some just "register", some use one of the national orgs' tests. Usually if you register with a local org they will have places they visit set up.
In either case, the organization provides insurance.

*There are a few national orgs that have online registration, but they have requirements of training, and usually something like you have your vet fill out an evaluation form about your dog's temperament.


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## Chicagocanine

Brighthorizondogs said:


> Exactly people can buy their gear where they want and put what they want on it. Nothing says you can't make your own tags or id and use the registration number on. However recently I've known some people who have had issues with laminated cards so wanted plastic believable ones. .


You can get a nice plastic "official looking" ID card online for less than $15. I had one made for my dog for her "car id" because I got tired of the homemade "laminated" luggage tag cards I made coming apart... 

They are very nice heavy plastic, not laminated nd you can design them yourself. I made mine with the same info as my dogs' old ID(vet info, emergency contacts, etc)... In my case it was to have on my dog's car harness in case of emergencies but you could customize one for a therapy or service dog too.


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