# About liver/Liver Sables



## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

Ok wasn't sure where to post this but I guess this is about as good as I can get lol. This comes from the non urgent thread about the Liver that needed a home. I did not want to post on that thread because it is a rescue thread and I just wanted to post some info on the color.

Here is the dog in question (this pic is from the forum). Who I think is a Liver Sable.











Ok She has a liver nose and no black pigments but looks Sable. Here is what I think.

I studied the genetics of Dachshunds a while back with colors/patterns and the varieties between (they have a ton more color/pattern/coat combos than any breed i Know of) 
Anyway Liver is a Color and Sable is a Pattern. You can have a combination of the two that produces a Liver Sable. Of course 1 parent would Have to be sable and both parents would have to be liver carriers. (known as chocolate in Dachshunds) This is not a color/pattern combination you see a lot in either breed. Here is my liver/tan German Shepherd (my pic) his dad is solid black and his mom black/tan. There were also Solid livers in his litter. My liver/tan below.









Anyway I love the color genetics it is something I find very fascinating lol. Sorry If I put this in the wrong spot.And hope its ok I used the other pic of the forum.


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

I think she would fabulous next to your liver GSD!!!!


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## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

Well if she was closer I would grab her in a heartbeat.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

I want a liver GSD!!!! They are gorgeous, simply amazing!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Yes, the dog is a liver sable.

The dog's color is sable. (Technically, sable is a color, not a pattern.)

Liver is a dilution of black pigment caused by a recessive set of genes located in a different spot of the genetic code from those for color (or "pattern'). It turns all black pigment, in hair and skin, to a chocolate brown color.

Yes, at least one parent had to be sable to produce sable since it is the most dominant of all of the colors, so any dog who carries a sable gene will express that sable gene and be sable. Then both parents had to carry at least one copy of the liver dilution and this dog inherited one copy from each parent. The parents didn't necessarily need to be liver, as being recessive they can carry it and not express it, though of course one may well have carried two copies and then would express it as being liver him/her self.


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## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

I'm not so fond of the GSD, but I do LOVE the liver GSDs!


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## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

I will say it is Extremely hard to find a liver from a reputable breeder, they are considered a fault in the breed standard. Mine came from a Byb that was more like a commercial kennel I guess they had about 50 dogs in Kennels. I did not know this until I arrived there at that point I did what your told not to do and got Kane because I felt bad for him lol. He is an awesome dog and I have not had any problems with him but he is only 1 year old so we have a long ways to go lol.


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

Melly said:


> Well if she was closer I would grab her in a heartbeat.


Maybe, somehow, you could arrange for transport on this board?
I don't know how it works or if it is just for rescues?

Just thinking out loud? :thinking:


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## Equus5O (Apr 27, 2010)

Axl's dam is black, and his si







re is liver.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

They are just too nice! This one makes me crazy!!! I want one, but I've done many searches to find someone who can breed them...but didn't find a thing.....








http://pics.hoobly.com/full/LMAJOJZSTLP3KXHO5V.jpg


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## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

Ya he is a pretty 1 Trish here is another of mine from side view. This was about a month ago at 11 mo old.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

trish, if you have your heart set on a liver, why don't you just keep an eye out for one to show up in rescue? You DON'T want to go to a "breeder" of livers (even though there are a number out there) and support and encourage through your interest the continued breeding of out-of-standard dogs. From being on this board for a few years, they do seem to show up in rescue quite regularly. The cost of transport if away from you would probably be about equivalent to the cost of a puppy from a breeder. 

Sadly, since the vast majority of livers are bred for pets by none-too-responsible breeders who don't screen new homes adequately, and don't have a standing policy to take back unwanted dogs, the livers have a higher chance of ending up in rescue - your chance to get the dog you want and give an unwanted dog a good and loving home!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Do Livers or Sable Livers show up in reputable breeders litters even if they didn't mean too?


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> trish, if you have your heart set on a liver, why don't you just keep an eye out for one to show up in rescue? You DON'T want to go to a "breeder" of livers (even though there are a number out there) and support and encourage through your interest the continued breeding of out-of-standard dogs. From being on this board for a few years, they do seem to show up in rescue quite regularly. The cost of transport if away from you would probably be about equivalent to the cost of a puppy from a breeder.
> 
> Sadly, since the vast majority of livers are bred for pets by none-too-responsible breeders who don't screen new homes adequately, and don't have a standing policy to take back unwanted dogs, the livers have a higher chance of ending up in rescue - your chance to get the dog you want and give an unwanted dog a good and loving home!


Yeah ,could be a good idea! don't think I'm gonna find one in Quebec though....but I'll keep my eyes open 



Melly said:


> Ya he is a pretty 1 Trish here is another of mine from side view. This was about a month ago at 11 mo old.


:wub::wub:


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## WynterCote (Feb 15, 2010)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/chat-room/138296-anala-gsd-husky-beautiful-dog.html

This dog is another possible liver shepherd looking for adoption. I posted a few days ago, but doesn't hurt to reference her here again! She may be the most beautiful dog I've ever seen


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

^^I agree!! WOW Stunning!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I WANT HER!lol


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## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

Oh wow, that dog is beautiful, Trish!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Kroush said:


> I'm not so fond of the GSD, but I do LOVE the liver GSDs!


I am just curious, if you are not fond of the GSD then why did you join this board?


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## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Do Livers or Sable Livers show up in reputable breeders litters even if they didn't mean too?


 Yes there can be. Of course Sables 1 of the parents would have to be a sable but the liver gene can be carried along ways its just luck of the draw I guess you would call it lol. Lets say you bred the liver to a black/tan and kept breeding to black/tans further down just to make it simple lol. Livers always pass a liver gene so the puppies ALL would have 1 liver gene and 1 black/tan gene from other parent. So they would be Black/tan carrying liver. Now those puppies have Liver X black/tan So they can pass either gene. Bred to a black/tan they could pass the liver and have puppies that are black/tan x liver (black/tan but carrying liver) Or they could pass the black/tan and have puppies that do not carry for liver its 50/50 lol. Now say you just by chance get 2 dogs that are Liver x Black/tan and breed them you have a 25% chance of getting a liver lol. There are other genes involved with color/pattern and such but this is as simple as I could do it lol maybe someone else can do it better lol. Genetics are awesome but I cant explain them to save my life lol.


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## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I am just curious, if you are not fond of the GSD then why did you join this board?


Because I am looking at adding a Husky/GSD mix to my home as a playmate for my other dog, so I want to know whatever I can about them and not just assume she'll be like one side of her breed. There are also many GSDs around here that I meet up with who look at me as reputable with dogs, so I would rather be knowledgeable on their breed specifically rather than just dogs in general and maybe share knowledge which may not apply to the GSD.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Kroush said:


> Because I am looking at adding a Husky/GSD mix to my home as a playmate for my other dog, so I want to know whatever I can about them and not just assume she'll be like one side of her breed. There are also many GSDs around here that I meet up with who look at me as reputable with dogs, so I would rather be knowledgeable on their breed specifically rather than just dogs in general and maybe share knowledge which may not apply to the GSD.


oh ok. I am assuming your adopting so thank you for adopting. This board is a great place to learn about GSDs


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## Gsdldy (May 7, 2010)

I got a call a few days ago from a guy up the road from me, he has a 7 month old female AKC GSD that he needs to rehome. He was calling to ask me to come up and meet her and see if I could help him find her a good home. Imagine my supprise when she turned out to be a solid red Liver GSD, she is simply beautiful. And has a temperment and personality to die for, I seriously considered takeing her myself. BUT for now I am trying to find her the right home or I'll end up with another mouth to feed lol.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

from the feelings of all these posts on this thread, you should have no trouble finding a good home! Thank you for helping your neighbor(hopefully the dog is or will be fixed per the agreement the new owners will sign, so breeding isn't an option) I'm surprised her breeder doesn't have first rights in the re-homing of what they've produced.


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## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

@Jessie: She's coming from a home that can no longer financially support her, but it's up in the air right now. She got along swimmingly with my Loki so we're really hoping we'll be able to get her!

@Gsdldy They are beautiful, aren't they?! I didn't even know they came in solid liver until a few days ago and I was taken away!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Kroush said:


> @Jessie: She's coming from a home that can no longer financially support her, but it's up in the air right now. She got along swimmingly with my Loki so we're really hoping we'll be able to get her!
> 
> @Gsdldy They are beautiful, aren't they?! I didn't even know they came in solid liver until a few days ago and I was taken away!


Well either way, thank yo for giving her a home. My neighbor had a GSD/Husky mix, total beauty. Post pictures when you get her!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Kroush said:


> I'm not so fond of the GSD, but I do LOVE the liver GSDs!


You're not fond of GSDs?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> You're not fond of GSDs?


Thats what I was thinking!


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## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

Yeah, I couldn't really tell you why though. I used to love them, their natural beauty, loyalty and train-ability when I was younger. I fostered a few GSDs and GSD mixes, never had a problem with them.. just kinda faded out though somehow. I don't think they're bad or anything, I still think they're pretty dogs! I just don't think it'd be a dog I'd purposefully choose, just something about them turns me off of them and I don't know what.

as for photos, I think I posted a couple photos of her in my intro. I don't want to spam this thread with her, maybe I'll post more in the photos thread.


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## Josiebear (Oct 16, 2006)

I would LOVE a liver GSD one day! but finding a reputable breeder who has one is hard i bet. I do keep my eyes open to see if any landed in shelters or rescues though lol. I know some of you think that would be un fair to all the other dogs that need home but i really like that color! i'm only human you know .


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## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

To be honest, I was never fond of the GSD I had my rottweilers and they were my babies. When my male Shasta passed at 11 years old ( huge boy around 200 lbs) I dealt with it. But when I had to put Sadie to sleep at 12 (they were like 2 weeks apart in age) I just didn't want to get another dog for a while I had her since she was 5 weeks old and she did everything with me. So 6 months went by and me and my husband decided to get a rottweiler but every one that I looked at wasn't good enough I found a flaw with everything they just wasn't my girl. And I ran across a picture of Kane for sale in the newspaper and I said that's my dog and got him lol. Now I love my Shepherds and I'm glad I gave them a try even though I still miss having my rottweiler lol. 1 day maybe I will find another rottweiler after some more time passes its been almost a year now lol.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

The dog that was pictured as a cross of GSD & Husky.....may actually just be a liver, long coated GSD.
It looks very much like a couple offered on another forum for sale.


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## WynterCote (Feb 15, 2010)

robinhuerta said:


> The dog that was pictured as a cross of GSD & Husky.....may actually just be a liver, long coated GSD.
> It looks very much like a couple offered on another forum for sale.


I agree. I don't think that dog 'Anala' has any husky in her. She doesn't have the coat, tail, or coloring of a husky. If anything other than GSD, maybe she's part golden retriever, but I'd bet on long-coated liver GSD.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Kroush said:


> I'm not so fond of the GSD, but I do LOVE the liver GSDs!


 
So... you come to the German Shepherd board.. to say you aren't fond of the breed? Just sheer boredom?


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## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

VaBeachFamily said:


> So... you come to the German Shepherd board.. to say you aren't fond of the breed? Just sheer boredom?


This has already been explained. I'm trying to learn about the breed, I don't have to be head over heels to want to be educated. I may be adopting a GSD/Sibe mix and I want to know what will be best for her. I already know a lot about Siberians. I also was talking to someone about GSDs and they had a question I didn't know the answer to, so it pushed me to go learn more.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

VaBeachFamily said:


> So... you come to the German Shepherd board.. to say you aren't fond of the breed? Just sheer boredom?


No, she explained she is adopting a GSD mix, so was looking for help understanding her new dog.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I can understand the OP's comment....
I am not a huge fan of several breeds for "myself"..(even though I have owned a few). But...I can totally respect & appreciate different breeds for what they are...


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## Kroush (Jul 4, 2010)

robinhuerta said:


> I can understand the OP's comment....
> I am not a huge fan of several breeds for "myself"..(even though I have owned a few). But...I can totally respect & appreciate different breeds for what they are...


Oh I never said there was anything wrong with them, they're beautiful, loyal and want to please. They just aren't a dog that if I was choosing for myself, I would necessarily go to first. But there's nothing wrong with them, they're great dogs.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I was explaining that I *do* understand your opinion....I don't think you said anything was wrong with them either...?!....and yep!...they are great dogs!


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## GSDGenes (Mar 9, 2006)

*Liver and blue are both recessive genes that dilute the black pigment of a German Shepherd Dog.*

*To be a liver a dog's parents must both either be liver or carry the liver recessive gene.*

*To be a blue, a dog's parents must both either be blue or carry the blue recessive.*

*The white gene is totally separate from the other color & pattern genes. It is recessive, both parents must either be white or carry white to produce a white dog. A white dog is actually a COLORED gsd genetically, EXCEPT THAT THE WHITE RECESSIVE ACTS AS IF YOU DROPPED A WHITE SHEET OVER THE DOG, HIDING ITS COLORS & PATTERN.*

*This is why you can breed a solid black GSD to a solid white GSD & get any GSD color or pattern, depending on what the white dog's hidden colors & pattern are.*

*Liver isn't a rare gene in high quality GSDs at all. Blue, liver, and white have been in the GSD since the beginning. Longcoats have been in the breed since the beginning. *

*Thing is, breed club politics primarily motivated the discrimination against blues, livers and whites in the breed. The speed with which people trash, bash, degrade, and criticize any breeder who admits producing anything less than perfection, is what causes many reputable breeders to keep their mouths shut & make dilutes & white pups quietly disappear as soon as they are born, especially in Germany where a breeder's litter is inspected by a breed warden and officially recorded within 24 hours after birth and no reputable breeder wants the breed warden to see off-color puppies in the litter.*
*Nevertheless, when you look at some of the names of dogs who carry liver listed below, you will see that there's no way that liver could really be as rare an occurrence in reputable breeders litters at it appears to be!*

*A few well known dogs who carry/carried the liver recessive dilution gene*
*Alf v Nordfelsen SchH3 Sieger*
* Arek v Stoffelblick SchH3FH*
*Asta vd Kalenborner Hohe SchH3*
*Ch Bernd v Kallengarten SchH2 ROM*
*Bob v Haus an der Schiene SchH3IP3*
*Ch Caraland's Limited Edition*
*Sel Ch Caralon's Hein vd Lockenheim ROM*
*Dasty vom Gries SchH3IP3*
*Digger vom Schloss Veitenstein SchH3FH*
*Dolly v ehrlichen Viehhandler SchH*
*Ero vom Batu SchH3*
*Fanto vom Hirschel SchH3FH Sieger*
*Gundo de Franquieres SchH3FH*
*Harko v.d. Lentfert Hoeve SchH2 VH3*
*V-Hein v Richterbach SchH3ROM*
*Ch Hoheneichen's Flint*
*VA Jalk v Fohlenbrunnen SchH3*
*Jeck v Noricum SchH3FH* *Sieger*
*Lasso v Neuen Berg SchH3 Sieger*
*Link v Muikenshof SchH3FH IP3*
*VA Marko vom Cellerland SchH3FH*
*V-Nax vom Hasenborn SchH3Fh IP3*
*Panther vom Eschenzweig*
*Ch Peddacre's Uno CD*
*Rena v Osnabrucker Land*
*Rosel v OsnabruckerLand*
*Sammo v Fiemereck SchH3FH IP3*
*Saro vom Wiesenborn SchH3*
*Tammy v't Mienendeel*
*Sel Ch Tannenwold's Igor ROM*
*Ulbert v Piastendamm Schh3*
*Can GV, Int Ch Ulk Wikingerblut SchH3 ROM*
*Uwe v Kirschental SchH3FH*
*Vopo vom Sendberg SchH3*
*Werro zu den Sieben Faulen*
*Wilko vom Kirschental SchH3*


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