# Somber day and can't sleep



## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Hello again everyone

Haven't posted much since I joined, due to complications with my recent TKR that became infected...which btw, is not the purpose of this thread.

Anyway, yesterday I brought my sweet girl..a 9 mo old GSD to be spayed, chipped and have the pexi procedure done. I expected this to be a typical procedure with the hopes that she would come home the same day or possibly kept overnight at worst. A couple hours after I got back home I got a call from the vet saying she found a fairly large (soft tissue) mass inside her. Since her pre op tests all came back excellent, including blood work, this was quite the surprise. And it wasn't anything she could feel from the outside prior to the surgery. Based on what she saw, she felt she wasn't equipped to proceed with removing the mass and had me bring Marley for emergency care at Pieper Memorial Veterinary Center in Middletown CT. So after my vet closed her back up. I rushed her to the emergency hospital. 

Since my vet had already called them ahead of time, they took me in right away and decided that a CT scan and blood work would be the proper starting point and suggested I go home for now. Blood work came back perfect, however not so much with the CT scan. Evidently the mass had attached itself to several organs...liver, intestines, pancreas were mentioned and possibly something else that I don't remember. Critical enough that even having her spayed or the pexi done is not advised at this time. The risk to remove the mass was far to great, so the next step would be to draw a sample from the mass and have it tested. She said there was good chance they could treat her by reducing or eliminating the mass depending on the test results. Unfortunately I have to wait until Monday for the results due to it being the weekend...glad it wasn't last weekend as the holiday likely would have caused even more delay. 

So sometime later today, I'll go pick her up and we'll also discuss my options in more detail and review the CT scan. There is the possibility that they can't treat it, and if surgery is to be performed, there is a high risk that it may not end well. Talk about devastating to hear!! I'm not necessarily looking for any sympathy but more so, any advice or suggestions on what I can expect to face. This is a whole new experience for me as my last 2 GSD's lived long healthy lives except for my last who developed EPI. Which was nothing more than a common cold in comparison IMO, figuratively speaking of course. 

Since I've been out of work due to my knee injury, my girl has been at my side almost 24/7 since I got her this past June. To say we were bonded at the hip would be an understatement  So here I sit at almost 3 am unable to sleep, posting on the web and missing her so much already. The house seems empty and way too quiet without that little pain in the --- not pestering me like she enjoys doing  Having lost my last girl this past spring due to age, I'll be devastated if I lose my new pup so soon. 

So if anyone one has any encouraging words or suggestions as to what I'm facing and how to deal with it, it would be sincerely appreciated. This is kinda traumatizing to me right now not knowing what to expect as she was in such excellent health and literally an energetic ball of fire. There was absolutely no indication that this mass affected her in any way. She slept, ate, drank, peed and pooped like any other normal dog. Her energy is literally endless. In fact she loves my vet's assistant so much, she is out of control (in a good way) ecstatic whenever she sees her. She knows the breed well as she has 2 of her own and let Marley have her way jumping, licking, whining to her hearts content. Yesterday when I dropped her off, she made such a scene that some of the other staff came out to see what the commotion was all about. It is a sight to see and brings a smile to my face every time she does it. She loves to play ball outside and would bug me incessantly if I didn't take her out to do this ritual everyday. BTW...thanks to this forum I picked up the tip about using 2 balls when playing. What a difference it made compared to using one ball and her not wanting to give it up most of the time 

Sorry for the lengthy post, but it did do me more good than you can imagine just to put it out here and talk about it. I'm all ears for any comments, explanations or words of encourage and I'll be sure to check back and update as soon as I know more.

Thanks!!
Bob


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Here's a couple more pics I have of her. First is the day I got her. I'll treasure this pic forever as she looks so adorable IMO 
Second pic is fairly recent


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## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

I won't have the right words here...but I know that just talking about things like you and your girl are going through now- is a comfort.....Hope you get some good news next week......Here's to a happy and healthier new year for you and your girl.....She's really gorgeous !...Thoughts and prayers.
Vaughn


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I can't imagine. Good thing your vet had the wisdom to send you to someone more expert. Glad that they gave you a glimmer of hope that perhaps there is something they can do.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thanks for the encouraging words!! Looking back at my OP, I had to chuckle as it appears to me I was doing a lot of babbling. But as I previously said, it did me wonders. After that initial post, I spent a little bit of time reading some new posts and even watched some vids that were posted showing the dogs in action...impressive stuff to stay the least. And it was enough to take my mind off the situation to fall asleep...sitting in my recliner with my laptop. Got a couple hours sleep anyways.


While I was making this post, the hospital called and she's doing good, very alert and making a bit of a scene telling you she wants out of the crate she's in lol. Yep that's my Marley clawing at the door telling you she's had enough. So at least for now I can go pick her up around noon and also sit down with the Dr to discuss the matter. Looking forward to that as I still have questions.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Babbling does a mind and body good. The safety and comfort a shepherd can bring comes in many forms even this gsd forum. My only advise is to remain strong for your girl. They know when something is going on and to see you upset makes them feel less safe. I know it is much easier to say then do- I truly do but it’s a goal. Your girl need tons of strength from you no matter the outcome. It helps tons when you know you are in good hands. Many prayers for you and your beautiful girl.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Jenny720 said:


> Babbling does a mind and body good. The safety and comfort a shepherd can bring comes in many forms even this gsd forum. My only advise is to remain strong for your girl. *They know when something is going on and to see you upset makes them feel less safe.* I know it is much easier to say then do- I truly do but it’s a goal. Your girl need tons of strength from you no matter the outcome. It helps tons when you know you are in good hands. Many prayers for you and your beautiful girl.


 I can't thank you enough for bringing that up!!! I honestly never even gave it a thought. I doubt I'd give her any reason to feel unsafe, but by you pointing that I'll be sure to stay 100% focused on her and her needs, not mine...if that makes sense.


That statement alone!!! made it all the more reason I'm glad I put this out there. This was exactly what I was hoping for when I posted. Again I thank you from the bottom of my heart!!!!


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

This may be small consolation but I found your original post to be very organized and easy to follow the chain of events. This to me says that even during extreme duress and although you are feeling justifiably an emotional wreck, you brain is able to process all the necessary information. As if it is on auto pilot. This isn't a small ability and will help you.

From my own experience with both raising children and beloved animals, I found that focusing/holding on to whatever hope the doctors and vets have offered offered me, helped to keep my emotional strength up.

I'm also adding my thoughts in conjunction with what Jenny720 stated. It is really important that your girl sees all your love and happy thoughts right now, feed off of her happy greeting that she gives when you pick her up. That is all she cares about and is a balm in itself.

Wishing you the best for your girl she looks so very sweet in both pictures.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

its Not much consolation but at least you found it early. That is unexpected in such a young dog. She is in the best possible hands and they are doing everything they can. We can hope it is something they can treat and cure. Until you get test results, try to stay calm. It may be something very treatable, so try to expect a good outcome.


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## Arathorn II (Oct 7, 2017)

She's a good looking girl. Hoping and praying for the best!


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thanks again for the well wishes!

Yesterday was quite the day. When I first saw her, she was so overly excited she acted like she hadn't seen me for a month. It took two of us to calm her down mostly to prevent her from causing any problems with her incision. And this was with her being sedated earlier. The Dr even said we may need to increase the dosage if she continues to be this hyper. The ride home wasn't bad considering the hospital is an hour away from my home. She sat or laid in the back seat, alert and without any commotion. I live in a rural setting about 600' off the road. As soon as I pulled in my driveway, she was off to the races.  Back and forth from window to window whining and whimpering. Good to know she recognizes her surroundings. Then when we got in the house and she saw my wife, it was a repeat of what she did earlier. Boy what a powerhouse these pups can be!! I was able to calm her down again, but it was challenging. I also took the cone off her head and kept her on a leash so I could keep a close eye on her. Figured she spent enough time the last couple days wearing that cone and being cooped up in a cage. It still took the rest of the afternoon before she finally settled down. Then I fed her along with a couple of her prescribed meds and she fell asleep. This gave me a chance to eat, change and get caught up with what I needed to do. Being that I was so tired from lack of sleep, I was starting to nod off. So as much as I hated to do it, I woke her up and put the cone back on and put her in her crate for her safety. She fell back asleep almost immediately...and so did I:wink2:

I'm not going to try and repeat what the Dr told me regarding the issue, as most of the language was above my paygrade and confusing. But to give her credit, she did explain it enough for me to understand what we were facing. The sample they took from the mass via a needle was sent for a 2 part test. The first, called a Cytology came back good in that it eliminated possible causes. But it did not give the answers she was seeking. The other test, a Culture involved allowing the specimen to grow and see what develops...or something like that. If that doesn't give a conclusive answer, she'll have to take a larger sample via an incision and repeat the test. The reason being is the sample already they took may not contain enough material(?) for a thorough test. At this point she doesn't feel its cancerous, but not 100%. More likely an infection of some sort, but not guaranteed at this point. There are a number of possibilities for the cause and she discussed them all. Including where the dog came from and had she been out of state. The reason being, apparently dogs from the south and brought up here are bringing some type of parasite(?) or something as she's seen many cases involving that. Since she was born in PA and has only been here in CT and has not mingled with any other dogs other than her 3 litter mates, that eliminated those possibilities. The Dr did say she treated a one year old not long ago for something similar and had to perform surgery to remove it. The surgery was a success, so that is encouraging to hear. The only difference with my girl is the mass is attached to/surrounds more internal organs.

As of right now , she's doing great and acting normal in every aspect. And she's sound asleep at my feet, which is a godsend all things considered. While I don't have a definitive answer yet, the test results so far have eliminated several possibilities. So now we wait a couple more days for the culture results to come back. I'll update those results as soon as I get them.


Fingers crossed and I'll remain optimistic!


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

I forgot to mention something else. The Dr did say they have seen cases where they never determined the cause of the mass, but the treatment or removal was successful. In this day and age, it seems strange to hear that.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

May the answer come soon and the problem be resolved. One word of caution - from personal experience and verified by vets ---- day 3 after the operation = mucho itch = prime time for ripped stitches. Repairing the dog's "fix" cost about twice what the original operation did..... So there's that to watch. Cones and modified t shirts etc may look bad, may wear on your sympathy but oh error on the side of caution.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

I don't recall any abnormal itching when my last 2 were spayed, but that was about 12 and 24 yrs ago. Are you saying a T shirt could be used instead of the cone or both? I did notice the incision looks to be longer than my previous girls. Possibly for the pexi procedure or maybe it because my vet was trying to see how large the mass was? Now that you bring it up, I'm wondering if she is able to reach the incision area with her rear paw. 

Myself, I hate the cone. Cumbersome to say the least. I'm sure the dog hates it as well. For one thing you have to make the room she's in is cone proof. Otherwise, if she is next to say the coffee table and turns her head, whoooosh!! one swipe and the table top is cleaned off completely. LOL I laugh now but in the past it was frustrating.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I hate cones too and so do my dogs BUT, it's the only thing that will really stop your dog from going to town on herself. My boy had a retained testicle taken out. For a few days he did not bother it much and we got away with a the recovery suit. Then he REALLY wanted at it and was sticking his nose inside the leg hole to get to it. Then we had trial by fire with the cone. He was pretty dramatic. Believed he could not lay his head down to rest while wearing the cone to the point of nodding out sitting up and other stuff. We soldiered on because we had to, and he recovered fine.

He also got kicked out of the bed for two weeks because he was not allowed to jump in and out. This was also very sad for everyone. But my vet scared me straight with stories of hernias and recovery time if I let him do bad things and you better believe I made that boy follow the rules for the full amount of time and I am glad I did.


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

Glad to have her home and that there is hope that it isn't cancerous. It's especially hard keeping an active pup still while the healing takes place; it doesn't sound like the surgery slowed her down much. Susan Garrett has a DVD or online version of Crate Games which would provide mental stimulation and distraction for her during her convalescence. Sending prayers for a full recovery for your girl.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

So glad she is home enjoy her and wishing you get good answers soon. I would also say the cone is so important takes a few seconds to rip some sutures out and under a minute to take them all out and probably an hour or more with sedation and recovery to put them back in. Removal for walks is okay but has to be right back on. I like the comfy cone I found max did much better with that then the plastic Elizabethan collar- he hated that was miserable. He did not mind the comfy cone. He had swallowed a corn cob the summer before last and had to have surgery. He wore that comfy cone for 4 weeks it took a long time for his sutures to heal and be removed as to the location and activity he glad he did not mind the cone as half his summer was a bust as it were.
https://allfourpaws.com/comfy-cone/


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

if you don't like the cone you can try the inflated collar...but one may not stop your gal. I put two at a time on my dogs. They look like they are going to take a long nap on an airplane but it works.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I hate cones too and so do my dogs BUT, it's the only thing that will really stop your dog from going to town on herself. My boy had a retained testicle taken out. For a few days he did not bother it much and we got away with a the recovery suit. Then he REALLY wanted at it and was sticking his nose inside the leg hole to get to it. Then we had trial by fire with the cone. He was pretty dramatic. Believed he could not lay his head down to rest while wearing the cone to the point of nodding out sitting up and other stuff. We soldiered on because we had to, and he recovered fine.


First I've heard about a recovery suit. I just looked at what they are...not bad. I might look into ordering one as I like the idea. I wonder if its safe enough to use without the cone? I see yours was determined and I wouldn't put it past mine if the incision bothered her enough. I'll keep an extra close eye on her the next few days since the surgery for the spay was Friday, even though the spaying wasn't done.

Not knowing much about brands, any preference? I saw one on Amazon.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thanks Jenny720, and the one she has now is similar to your link just not as cushy.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

*car2ner* NICE!!! Now that I like more than the suit. Are they just an inflatable with a covering? Have a link or name of what they are?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

MrGSD said:


> Thanks Jenny720, and the one she has now is similar to your link just not as cushy.


That cushiness makes a world of difference it’s flexible, not clumsy and could not reach stitches. Max was depressed with the hard plastic cone.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

The one I have is by suitical,

https://www.chewy.com/suitical-recovery-suit-dogs/dp/140861

The dog didn't mind wearing it. It might work better or worse depending on the location of the incision. My dog's incision was up high in the inside of his thigh and he could definitely stick his nose through the leg hole and get it. Before he figured out that trick he was licking it through the fabric and although he didn't rip a stitch he did get it nice and soggy and gross which I don't think is good either.

So, my takeaway is not to trust the suitical once they really want to get the incision. It worked fine for like 2 or 3 days when he was still too sore to do acrobatics to try to lick it.

Side note. Suitical also makes a single sleeve for a front leg. I have used that with great success to stop leg licking.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Jenny720 said:


> That cushiness makes a world of difference. Max was depressed with the hard plastic cone.


I'm familiar with the hard ones from my first girl. Never again, that's for sure. The one we have now is soft and flexible. Just it seems she has a hard time going in/out the door or going in her crate and turning around to find that comfy spot. Kind of sad seeing her get it caught on everything. I also think it's a bit too long and limits her visibility or more specifically, her peripheral vision. The one Car2ner posted looks like that would suit her nicely.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

That does look comfy lol! That photo was cute car2ner posted just watch she can’t reach anything.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> The one I have is by suitical,
> 
> https://www.chewy.com/suitical-recovery-suit-dogs/dp/140861
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link!! That one seems a little better than what I saw on Amazon. I appreciate hearing your experience with it and am still considering one. Depending on what the next few weeks brings, I can see a use for both yours or Car2ooner's. I'm thinking yours would be nice when traveling in the car or when she's in the crate. Her incision is further up her belly, so I don't think she could get to it through the leg hole. Probably have to just try it out and watch her enough before I could trust her while in the crate and left alone or during the night.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

techinstructor said:


> Glad to have her home and that there is hope that it isn't cancerous. It's especially hard keeping an active pup still while the healing takes place; it doesn't sound like the surgery slowed her down much. Susan Garrett has a DVD or online version of Crate Games which would provide mental stimulation and distraction for her during her convalescence. Sending prayers for a full recovery for your girl.


Thanks

I don't crate her much right now, except for nights since I'm home most of the time. But there are times like my Dr appts that she is left alone crated. I've heard about the crate games before, just never looked into them. So thanks for the tip about Crate Games as I can see a need for it now.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

*car2ner*
I found them so no need for a link. I'll be ordering 2 of those for sure. Can't hurt to try as they're cheap enough.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

make sure you put a comfy buckle collar in the loops of the outer inflatable to keep it from slipping off over your pup's head.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

I looked and I'm not sure what a comfy collar is. Here is what I use for her now. Is this it?


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

and this is the collar I was going to get:


https://www.chewy.com/kong-cloud-collar-dogs-cats-x-small/dp/47471


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

My friend tried to use that on her dog for a regular neuter and it did nothing to stop him, just fyi


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

yup, that will work. Just make sure you keep an eye on your pup to see if they can relax in the collar or try to take it off and eat it


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> My friend tried to use that on her dog for a regular neuter and it did nothing to stop him, just fyi


Interesting...guess it depends on the dog and how determined it is. My wife just commented that it might be wise to hold off another day or 2 and see what the test results are before I spend more money on her.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

car2ner said:


> yup, that will work. Just make sure you keep an eye on your pup to see if they can relax in the collar or* try to take it off and eat it*


LOL! Not that its a joking matter. My girl does have the tendency to try and eat her toys, so it is a valid concern and I will keep an eye on her when I get the collar. Now I'm thinking forget the fuzzy one I listed and get the one that is a cloth fabric instead.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Note to the mods...


After I made the initial post, I felt I might have put it in the wrong sub forum. I wasn't really clearly focused at the time. If you feel this topic belongs in the section for Health Issues...which I do, I would understand if it was moved.


Thanks
Bob


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

In the instance I referenced with my dog, we did OK with the t shirt alone until we didn't. I'd use the cone, too. Yes, the dogs dislike them (the transparent/translucent ones are easier for them) and humans usually find them unpleasant when the edges are, uh, rammed into their calves with a certain amount of force. But I did not like looking at that opened suture at all. I'd rather have a cone jammed into my leg multiple times. And we had to go back to that anyway....


K-9 Top Coat makes "full body" (and leg) dog suits that help inhibit access to sutures BUT I would supplement with some sort of collar, too, especially on day three forward. I've also tried the stiff "no bite" collar but like much of these products, it's success depends upon the location of the wound, the flexibility and determination of the patient.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

middleofnowhere said:


> In the instance I referenced with my dog, we did OK with the t shirt alone until we didn't. I'd use the cone, too. Yes, the dogs dislike them (the transparent/translucent ones are easier for them) and humans usually find them unpleasant when the edges are, uh, rammed into their calves with a certain amount of force. But I did not like looking at that opened suture at all. I'd rather have a cone jammed into my leg multiple times. And we had to go back to that anyway....


 Thanks for the reply. I can honestly say I can relate to each point you made and agree. Been there...done that.


Never knew a transparent one was made. I just accepted what my vet gave me. Fortunately the last 2 I've had were the soft version. But now I want the one that Car2oooner posted a pic of.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Update..


Haven't heard anything yet. My vet said she talked to them yesterday and they were hoping for the culture results by today. Getting anxious to say the least.


Marley's doing great and doesn't show any signs of the mass or the incision affecting her. I actually feel bad for her because every time I take her out, you can see she wants to haul off and run.You can feel the tension on the leash. I know she misses chasing after the ball because everyday she sits by the box they're in and whines.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Just got a call from the hospital vet. The culture came back negative which is great news. However it did not eliminate cancer, which I thought it did. She also mentioned something about certain types of inflammations don't always show up with that type of culture test. So next is an ultrasound guided biopsy...if I got that right. This is the preferred method over surgery for a larger sample of the mass. Trying to keep up with all the terminology and what it means can be challenging. She did say the results of what's been done so far are encouraging, so there is that. Tomorrow I bring her back to the hospital at 7 am for that ultrasound biopsy deal. She is expected to come home later in the day. Then I get to wait another 3-5 days for the results. The prolonged agony of not knowing is starting to take a toll.

I say that because it took me a few days to recognize the full reality of what we're facing...-we're- meaning Marley and myself. But not hearing anything about the results and seeing how active and vibrant she is gave me enough hope to see a positive outcome. Now I feel back to square one. Not having a definitive answer yet and seeing the costs climbing are spinning the wheels and I don't want to think that way. I'll see this through one way or another. But if the costs start reaching tens of thousands, It's going to cloud my ability to make a rational decision. I can't bare to even think about losing her, let alone eating my savings while I'm out of work due to my knee. I believe I have enough to cover it all with a credit card or 2, but then I'd have another bill to pay. 

It's likely going to be a few more dismal days before I find that ray of light again...and trust me I will! Meanwhile if any of you could keep Marley in your thoughts and prayers, I would greatly appreciate it....


Thanks


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Definitely pulling for Marley; positive, healing thoughts for both of you!!


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thanks Tim


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Will do! Prayers for Marley


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thanks Jenny


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

Hang in there and don't give up hope yet. I'm still sending prayers for a recovery.


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## Olinb (Jan 5, 2019)

mid march of 1991 I found the prettiest GSD puppy in a dumpster. (still pisses me off) I didn't know much about dogs but I fell in love with this little guy in about a day and a half. So 3 months later when he got parvo I was devastated. I was given little hope of a recovery and money wasn't that great at the time but I told them "whatever it takes". After about 2.5 weeks of daily visits to the vet for his doggy IV in the back of his neck, he woke up and ate an ice cube and was according to the vet a real miracle as sick as he had been. I know the anxiety of not knowing. He grew into a 119 lb marvel of intelligence. I wish I knew more about his ancestry as he was easily "EASILY" the smartest GSD I've had or known. He died 7/30/2003 and I still miss him but we had a great 12+ years. Good luck to you and the vet's can do so much more today so keep your hopes up.

Here's a pic at around 3 months old I think.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

MrGSD said:


> Meanwhile if any of you could keep Marley in your thoughts and prayers, I would greatly appreciate it....
> Thanks



I am and I know what this feels like. I lost my Wolfy Dog at 1.5 years old due to auto immune disease several years ago. Am rooting for you both. Glad that you post updates.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thank you techinstructor, Olinb, and wolfy dog!

The biopsy was done this past Friday and I was told it may take up to a week for the results. I'm anxious to find out what we're dealing with and what the treatment will involve. Hoping it won't involve surgery. Fingers crossed and I'll post the results as soon as I get them.

She's doing great and no signs of any ill effects, other than the incision must be starting to itch. The cone keeps her from licking, but I have noticed a couple times that she uses her hind leg to scratch the incision area. Hard to tell if she can reach it, but at least the incision itself appears untouched. 

Thanks again for the thoughts and prayers!


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

What a tough if not miserable predicament to be in....


The results are back and the good news is the mass is benign. The tough pill to swallow is that the only viable treatment option is surgical removal. And with that comes the risk of her passing on the table. Talk about a kick in the gut!

Most of the initial explanation the Dr gave me was in medical terms that were not easily understood by a lay person. However to her credit, she explained it enough so that I could understand what we were facing.

Apparently the mass originated from a muscle...if I understood correctly. Because of its location, it's critical that it be removed. Otherwise it's a 'when' and not 'if' situation that will result in major health complications if not fatal. The Dr did discuss this matter with her colleagues and they all agreed that it should be surgically removed. Her young age and excellent health also played a role in this decision. The risk involved are due to the location of the mass...part of her intestines may have to be removed. As I understand, 50% can be safely removed but beyond that will likely result in life long problems or worse. They wouldn't know for sure until surgery was underway. There is also a good chance of success if the mass is only touching and not attached to any internal organs. My local vet did say that from what she saw, it didn't appear to be attached. But she stressed that she couldn't see all of it. 

So far I am just under $3K in diagnosing. The estimate for the surgery is between 3700 and 5300 so not an extreme. I want to say its not about the money, but to be honest it is to a point. I think the difficult part is there is still a chance she may not make it through surgery and they stressed that. That is where I have the most difficulty. As much as a burden the total expense will be for me, losing her and still having a bill makes for an even more difficult decision...not that they don't deserve to be paid. With that said though, she was put in my hands for a reason and I want to give her every chance at life even if I have to sacrifice for awhile. It would haunt me forever if I did anything less for her.

This is the gist of where we are for now. I feel I should stop at this point before I ramble on and on. I'm still in a daze over this whole situation, but I'm strong enough to get through it. If anyone has any comments or questions, please don't hesitate! I'll keep this thread updated as time moves forward. There is a tentative surgery date scheduled for this coming Thursday, so I still have time to change my mind. And to top it off...I was told that the possibility exists that when I drop her off for the surgery, it could be the last time I see her alive. 



Just saying that brought tears to my eyes, but I will remain strong no matter the outcome. 

Thanks for hearing my plight....


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Thanks for the update and the best news available --- Expensive, frightening, a worry still. I know that the odds are up a bunch in this case but surgery always carries risk. One thing a friend vet said to me when I was consulting her about what to do for a 33 yo horse -- if you have the money and don't do it, you will always wonder "What if???" I've never regretted that decision. 



Best of luck to you and the pup getting through this.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Only you know the answer. For me personally when I am faced, and I have been, with a decision like this one, I take the dog's age and health in consideration. I did have the means to have them treated. Example: my 12 year old first dog had a cancerous tumor around his kidney and was getting ill fast. We decided not to put him through surgery at that old age and had him put to sleep when he showed signs of pain. Another 4 year old dog was kicked in the chest by a deer, chest ripped open, skin missing but he was healthy and young and we pulled out all the stops to save him and he lived for another 10 years. WD's situation was hopeless at 1.5 years and we had him put down.
Whatever we decided about our dogs over the years, I never regretted it as we have thought it over and over before making the decision to either go for saving them or ending their lives. Looking back 25 years or so we put down a dog that had become aggressive and had bitten people and was put down. That was in a time when I didn't know what I know now, was about to be sued for everything we owned. Looking back this could have been prevented but at the time I did what I thought was best. That is the only 'what if' memory and I have never felt completely good or bad about it.
I wanted to illustrate to you that you do what you think is best at the time and not regret any of it, no matter the decision you are making based on love for the dog.
I wish you and her well.


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## Gregc (Aug 10, 2012)

Prayers coming for you and your pup.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Sending prayers, positive thoughts and hugs to you and your pup.


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

Yes, this is a terribly difficult and personal decision. Only you know your finances and yes, money can be an issue. I would make a list of the pros and cons and discuss the situation with family members, trying to be logical and unemotional about the whole thing. When my GSD got cancer we had to make the decision whether or not to have surgery. The prognosis was that the cancer would return in 3-6 months, plus there were most likely going to be complications with the surgery because he had been on Prednisone. We made the hard choice to end his life then, knowing full well that spending that money, time, effort would only cause more pain for the dog - basically "kicking the can down the road." 

Gather all the facts you can before you decide. Everything in life is a gamble to some degree, but one wants to try to be as informed as possible when making a decision of this magnitude. Ask the vet what the chances are of complications in the surgery. You may even want to consider consulting a specialist if there is a clinic close enough to you. Best of luck to you with this ordeal.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

What a tough place to be! For me, what helps is to keep gathering more info, more info...somewhere in the back of my brain, a decision forms. I would be weighing...
what are the odds for the surgery being successful...likely? Long shot? 50-50?

Is there any chance the mass could grow back, or is that null? 

Have there been other dogs with this condition, and what happened with them? 

And of course, the financial pain. There’s a difference between skipping a vacation you booked, or not putting into your IRA this year...vs racking up debt that will take a long time to pay off or depleting the emergency fund ( what will you do if car breaks down).

So many things to weigh and balance! She is so young...I would lean towards the surgery if it had good odds, and try to work with vet towards a comfortable payment plan...?

Will be thinking of you and Marley!!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

FYI: when an owner can't afford treatment, sometimes dogs get signed over to the clinic and the dog will be treated without cost for the owner. However, the owner loses ownership of the dog and if the dog heals, he/she will be up for adoption by the clinic.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

My sincerest heartfelt thanks to everyone for the comments, suggestions and thoughtfulness. I'm thankful I had the time to think it over and as a result I made a decision...and the only sensible decision IMO. I brought Marley to the hospital yesterday for the surgery. However late in the day I received a call from the surgeon explaining that due to several emergency surgeries, she was unable to treat Marley. The surgery was rescheduled for today. If by chance they can't do it today due to being backed up, I'll pick her up and bring her back next week. Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but knowing she isn't critical, I can understand why it happened. This is an impressive hospital with the credentials to match...including the surgeons, so the wait doesn't bother me other than delaying the unknown.

I'm fortunate to have the funds and not have to take out a loan. I had been saving for some property improvements, so it's not like it'll put me in the poor house. Where I was having the mental road block was spending 6-8K without any guarantee. And I now recognize that was foolish and selfish thinking. Even though I've only had her for 7 months, the bond between us is immense. Her being by my side literally 90% of 24/7 tends do that to you. Yet it took something like what we're facing to really understand how strong the bond is.

I took the advice of writing out the pros & cons along with my options. My options were:


1) Do nothing and wait to see if the mass started to affect her health. The problem I had with this is I didn't want it to reach a point where she suffered. Or if it reached a critical point where I had to rush her to the hospital...it's an hours drive away.

2) Put her down now to avoid any suffering. ABSOLUTELY NO WAY could I put down a healthy pet such as her and live with my self. She is a healthy, happy, energetic ball of fire and deserves a chance, even with the risks.

3) Move forward with the surgery even with the risks. I want to do what's in her best interests, not mine. If the surgery results in a need for a lifetime of special care, so be it. If it results in her passing, I am prepared for that as well. Either way, I'll have no regrets. Tough predicament for sure, but there are enough positives for a good outcome so I'll focus on them to get through it all.

Fingers crossed and praying for the best outcome possible. I'll continue to update as this progresses. Thanks for your time and compassion everyone!!


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

middleofnowhere said:


> Thanks for the update and the best news available --- Expensive, frightening, a worry still. I know that the odds are up a bunch in this case but surgery always carries risk. One thing a friend vet said to me when I was consulting her about what to do for a 33 yo horse -- if you have the money and don't do it, you will always wonder "What if???" I've never regretted that decision.
> 
> 
> 
> Best of luck to you and the pup getting through this.


This is worth repeating and thank you for posting it! I can honestly say that your words helped me see though the mental fog and lead me to the proper decision.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

GSDchoice said:


> What a tough place to be! For me, *what helps is to keep gathering more info, more info...somewhere in the back of my brain, a decision forms.* I would be weighing...
> what are the odds for the surgery being successful...likely? Long shot? 50-50?
> 
> Is there any chance the mass could grow back, or is that null?
> ...


 I followed your suggestion in bold and without realizing it, subconsciously a decision was forming. 

The odds are 50 50. The only real challenge will be if the mass attached itself to any organs. If it's a major artery, not likely to survive due to not being able to control bleeding...if I understood correctly. If it's just the intestines, up to 50% of the intestines can be removed and still allow a long healthy life. Removing more than that could mean a lifetime of special care and treatment or even lead to her eventual passing. 

If the mass can be successfully removed without harming any organs, there is next to zero chance of it growing back. She has seen other animals with this condition and has been successful with surgical removal.. However she did say this is the only case that evolved to the point that it encompassed several internal organs. From what has been seen visually by my local vet when she attempted to spay her along with Xrays and the CT scan, the mass doesn't appear to be attached to anything else beyond the muscle where they believe it originated. They've exhausted all possible testing to determine what they're facing, so now it's time for surgery to determine the extent of whether the mass is just resting on internal organs or attached.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Keep us posted! 
This is the fingernail biting time.

The delay must be hard to deal with but if it's because they are a top practice, yes, that is somewhat reassuring...


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

The surgery was successful!! I am so elated it's hard to control my emotions. However there was a hiccup...

The Dr called me at 7 last night to give me the news after Marley woke up. Took 4 hrs of surgery and she was able to remove the mass entirely. She wasn't really able to determine its point of origin, but still felt it developed off a muscle. During the surgery, while removing the mass, she had to handle?(lack of a better word) her intestines quite a bit and after the mass was removed, the intestines turned a purpleish color. This normally indicates lack of blood flow. However she was encouraged that the lower intestine still had a had a pulse and the large one still showed some signs of blood flow. If she survived the night with no ill effects, that would be a major milestone. She said that Marley would likely stay for at least another 48 hrs to ensure there are no complications. And I have no problem with that as I knew from the getgo that she was in the best hands possible. She did prepare me for the worst though...to expect a phone call during the night asking for permission to euthanize her if her vitals took a turn for the worse. 

Talk about a gut wrenching sleepless night!! So many thoughts went trough my head, but I will say this...I was fully prepared for the worst. All I kept thinking about was how much joy Marley gave me. And thankfully the phone never rang.

The phone finally rang about 8:30 this am and it was the Dr. saying Marley survived the night and her vitals were perfect. No vomiting or diarrhea, which were good signs as well because either would be a sure sign of GI Tract failure. They have a feeding tube through her nose so she is getting nutrition and able to contain it. I'm going to see Marley about 1 this afternoon which the Dr highly encouraged. That in itself boosted my confidence even more. I'll bring some of her favorite treats that I know she'll devour if she is able to. 

Everything is pointing to a positive outcome and to be honest...I don't care what the final bill is. Early on, as many of you know, I was hung up on the money part and not having any assurance of the outcome. That was foolish thinking because I do understand that any surgery carries risk. I just didn't see it that way at the time. I should know because my recent TKR became infected and that was a horrific experience. 

So even though Marley is not out of the woods yet so to speak, everything so far is encouraging. She is strong willed and you could see it in her everyday. I don't know if the breed carries the same will as humans for the desire to survive, but for me I believe she does. From the moment our eyes first met, I knew Marley and I were a match made from heaven and for her to survive this ordeal continues to prove it. 

I'll update more later after I see her. Again I thank each and everyone of you from the bottom of my heart for the support you have given me!!!!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Yeah!!!!!


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## Miika's Mom (Sep 23, 2013)

????????


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

This has been such an emotional roller coaster. With a heavy heart filled with grief and sorrow, I am still in shock. Marley passed early last night about 7...RIP my sweet and special girl.


About 10 mins before I arrived at the hospital, the Dr called me to say she had taken a turn for the worse. Her blood pressure had dropped along with several of her blood counts. She had a temperature of 104°. By the time I got there, they had already replenished her fluids and she made a remarkable turnaround. Enough that when I first saw her, she was able to greet me walking under her own power. She was as happy to see me as I was her. Although she appeared alert, she was very reserved without that spunk. I spent the next 3 hrs with her and we communicated through her eyes and ears as she rested her head on my lap. It was sad as well as joyous to see her like this, but it was expected as she had just been through a major surgery. Towards the end of my visit, she started to drift off. They replenished her fluids again which made an immediate difference. A few hrs later, once again she repeated the same symptoms. Only this time, she never recovered and passed away in her sleep.

I was back home at the time when the Dr called me and I was devastated by the news. However her Dr needs to be commended as I know she did her best as well as keeping me informed and prepared for what we were facing. I am *sooo blessed and thankful* that I was able to spend those last precious moments with her. Otherwise I would have felt an eternity of guilt by dropping her off in a strange environment with the feeling that I abandoned her.

RIP Marley...my sweet girl, you gave me an abundance of joy and happiness during our short time together. You will be greatly missed and forever in my thoughts.


Goodbye my dearest...I loved you like no other!!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

I am SO very sorry.


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## das1 (Jan 21, 2019)

I can't stop my tears for you. So sorry. Hugs.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Oh no...
...and after she had come through the surgery so well. ?

So sorry that you lost sweet Marley!

You (with doctor) did your best to give her a chance at a long normal healthy life...I hope there is some peace in that.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Crap. That hurts.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

So sorry to hear this Bob! Glad you were able to visit with her before she passed though! RIP Little girl...


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thank you everyone!! I'm still having a tough time and it took all I had to make the 2 posts that I did.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Oh no! I don’t even know what to say. I am so so sorry.


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## Miika's Mom (Sep 23, 2013)

I am so sorry
?


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

My recovery is going to be tough, but I will return. It'll take another day or so to gather my thoughts. I sincerely appreciate all the replies.


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## Oasiskw (Dec 13, 2018)

So sad to read this today.. my heart is with you, I to know what if feels like to lose your 4 legged friends..


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OMG, I am so sorry and teary right now. That is heart breaking. I never expected this sad news. YOU did everything you could for her and you loved her so much. This is so tough. Take time to grieve and heal well.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

So many of us understand the pain of loosing our buddies. We'll be here when you come back. It takes time to process all of this.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I am so sad to hear this. So heartbreaking and all of us here know that kind of pain of loosing such a family member. It will be a tough journey but you will return. They are with us always -they truly are and once you are settled -you will get signs of this. Sending many prayers your way.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Once again I thank each and everyone of you for the replies! It does help in knowing that many of you have gone through what I have. It's still a struggle at times, but I'm improving. I thought it would be nice to share something that would brighten up the atmosphere...it did for me for sure.


Yesterday I had an unexpected delivery:


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

This was from my vet and her staff. It took me a moment to recognize what it was, and when I did I was totally blown away. Then a strange and eerie feeling came over me..it was sureal!


This was definitely a turning point for me!!


I have a couple appts this afternoon for me knee. Later today or tonight I'll return as I'm having a mental road block if you will, and hoping someone can shed some insight as to why.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

I wish I had left the original size alone. I resized it twice since it appeared you had to scroll left to right when I previewed the post. It showed a better detail with the original size.


Oh well...:smile2:


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Cherish this clinic. They ache for you I am sure, like we all do here. Grieving is a weird thing. it is different for everyone. There is no right or wrong in it.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

As I previously said, this as been an emotional roller coaster. This is not the first loss I have experienced. I was crushed when I lost my Maggie last spring as well as Shelby 12 yrs prior. But I saw it coming months in advance because of their age. They had the most awesome lives a dog could have and both were spoiled rotten and catered to their every need in the final days.

I do realize each and every one of our furry friends are special. But there was something really special about Marley. I'm sure part of it was due to we spent so much time together. In fact so much that we became one...one mind, one soul. We knew each others next move, next thought and next reaction. It was an experience that only dreams are made of. This is likely why I had so much trouble dealing with the loss of her. I am still somewhat lost due to not having her by my side. But every day gets better. In fact today I awoke feeling the best I have in several days. So...with that said, here's my dilemma:

I am finally able to look at all the pics of her and not lose it. However there is one pic I still can't seem to control my emotions when I see it. And I'm sure I know what fuels that emotion....

When I dropped her off at the hospital for the surgery, she was full of energy. She was a happy-go-lucky...not a care in the world...ball of fire. It was difficult to understand how the mass she carried in her belly didn't seem to affect her the slightest bit. The news that she survived the night post op left me ecstatic. That feeling quickly diminished when I was informed that she took a turn for the worse just prior to my arrival at the hospital. That had to be the longest 10 mins of my life, worrying that she wouldn't survive long enough for me to see her again. I kept thinking about the Dr telling me that the day I dropped her off for surgery might be the last I see her alive. 

Seeing her alive and walking on her own restored the hope for her recovery. It hurt in a way just seeing her with the bandage and feeding tube. But I knew it was a necessity and accepted it. As I previously mentioned, we communicated through her eyes and ears just by the movements. There is one pic that her eyes scream..."why did you do this to me?" 

It hurts just to type that and brought tears to my eyes again because I'll never forget that exact moment. And it hurts even more looking at the pic again, never mind posting it. 

I would *sincerely appreciate *if anyone can offer their insight and how I can accept this pic to move on. I'm sure she wouldn't want me to feel as bad as I do as I truly knew how her mind worked. Which is also why I feel so strongly about what her eyes were saying...


**I hope the pic isn't too large again and of it is, be patient as I'll try and resize it if needed


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

That picture makes me tear up and I wasn't even there. Personally I'd put it away for a long time, not look at it at all. Remember the happiness you've had together. I can remember my Bailey's last look without any photos and that alone brings a tear. Then I have to remember all the wonderful times we had together..that she had a good life with us.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

I'm sorry if it upset you car2ner or anyone else for that matter by posting that. It wasn't my intention. I'm the type that is not afraid to face anything head on. But you do make a good point about putting it away, and that may be the best way to handle it. All the other pics are fine and I enjoy looking at them for the joy they brought me.


edit...even if the pics bring a tear because they're a tear of joy if that makes sense to anyone


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

There are so many of us here that have been blessed to know and experience the bond that you speak of. This breed does fuse as one with our hearts. I think that in this moment you may have captured your own expression of why and confusion reflected in her eyes. Facing things head on for you is helpful but as Car2ner said, perhaps put it away for a while.

Also you spoke of an eerie feeling. My family has had 3 dogs pass on in our life time. Each and every one has let us know in some way that they were still with us. Each one let their presence be known to the very special person that they felt closest to. there was no mistake that that feeling and the experience was real and all three came at a time that it was needed most.

I am so sorry. RIP beautiful Maggie.


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## Richard Smek (Dec 22, 2018)

I just read the whole thread. Devastating - no other way to describe it.
Schevy - my GSD was put to sleep a month ago. I couldn't look at any pictures for about a week. After two weeks we got around to looking at pictures and videos of when he was 'younger' and while it was difficult - they largely made us smile. BUT, any pictures taken in Dec 2018 or the last few days leading up to the date - or the day of (final walk, final visits from friends and family....) I still can't. It was a tough time and the facial expressions are just too much. I thought about deleting them and keeping the happy ones. I will likely avoid them for the near future - maybe a long time, but they are staying as they are a part of the journey as hard as it was. One day - I might see them differently. 
Maybe you will too...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

So very very sorry for your loss.....

Do not beat yourself up over that photo.....sometimes our emotions read too much into a photo.....it could easily be - hey Dad, get this off me so we can go play! She was happy to see you, spend time with you but probably not comfortable and getting tired....do not beat yourself up and make yourself feel guilty!!! You went to every measure to give her a good life and a good future....you were a great owner and could not have done more to give her a wonderful life.


<<<<hugs>>>>>


Lee


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## Judy Untamed (Oct 26, 2018)

I still tear up looking at pictures of Mira...and haven't even shared the last photos I took of her at the vet before she passed away on my lap. No one else even knows those pictures exist because I can't bring myself to deal with them in any way. 

It's too easy to project our own feelings onto those expressive faces, but those big hearts are far too pure and gracious to cast blame.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

I know that the temptation is there to second-guess the decision, to blame yourself for making the wrong move...but what would the alternative have been? "Let's leave the mass in her and see how long she lives" or "Let's leave the mass in there until she starts to act unwell" (at which point organs are probably already affected and odds for a successful surgery go down). She was so young and healthy, and I think everybody (doc included) felt that the odds were in her favor as much as they could ever be. 

We are not given the power to know the future, we can only make the best decisions possible from where we stand...
And as JudyUntamed says - for sure, Marley would not blame you for doing your best to help her. She would thank you for always having been her best, kind, favorite human.


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## Gregc (Aug 10, 2012)

That's NOT a 'why did you do this to me" look. There's no blame in those eyes. I see a dog who recognizes you and wants you near. You were near, and you did everything in your power to help; more than may would have, in all honesty. Don't look back and second-guess anything. Be like your dogs, and live in the moment. Today. Now. Personally, I believe you'll meet again, somewhere down the road.
Warm regards,
Greg


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Sometimes life truly feels like one big free fall. Do not blame yourself it is what many of us do-self torture. You went above and beyond to try to help your girl. Still talk to her -she still can hear you.


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## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

my son had taken two pictures of my Cody and I at the vets office on his last day. He was my very special boy, that bond you speak of. With Cody it was very different circumstance of health, he was not feeling good when I had dropped him off at the vet the day before. It was hard to look at those pictures after he passed, and still make me tear up still, 6 years later, but I do see them differently in a way now. At first looking at them was, more like that's my Cody, I want him back, I wish there was more I could have done. Now I do see how illness and age had taken its place in my beautiful, playful and proud boy. But you could also see, he was glad to be with me, laying in my lap, his paw curled on my leg "holding" me. I see Marley looking at you, and glad you were there when she didn't feel well.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

"There is one pic that her eyes scream...'why did you do this to me?'"


I don't see that in the pic at all. I see a dog who is saying, "Enough of this. Get me outta here!"


I don't see any blame at all.


She also did not look like she was in pain, so it looks like the clinic did a good job of pain management.


When you lose a dog this young, it's normal to blame yourself and project that blame onto a pic.


But you did all the right things for Marley.


I’m old and crabby and I have very high standards for medical care for dogs. I get very irate with people who don’t do right by their dogs. 



But you truly did right by Marley. Without the surgery, something very likely would have ruptured and she would have collapsed and died screaming in agony as you frantically tried to get her to the vet.


I know how painful it is to lose such a young dog despite doing everything you could for her. I’ve been there.


It may help to know that she is not gone, just crossed over, and you will see her again. If you sense her presence, catch fleeting glimpses of her, hear her toenails clicking on the floor, you are not going crazy. She is letting you know that she is still with you. The bond you have with Marley is too strong to be broken, even by death.


Sometimes the best you can do is insure that the dog has the most humane death possible. It’s hard and it hurts and it’s not what you intended. But it was the best thing for Marley.


My girlfriend and I found the following from Suzanne Clothier helpful when we (like her) lost the best GSD ever at 8 months due to a terrible, unfixable heart defect. Unlike you, we (and Clothier) knew it was coming. It was the reason we took him as a puppy, so he would have a wonderful life. And he did. And so did Marley. It hurt like **** when he suddenly and painlessly dropped dead—as we knew he would—but we never regretted having him. He was such a joy, and he was so happy, and it was truly a privilege to take care of him.


“There is an old Sufi tale of a merchant in Baghdad whose servant returns from the marketplace trembling and pale. The servant had been jostled in the marketplace, and when he turned to see who had bumped him, he saw Death, who looked at him and made a threatening gesture. The servant begs the merchant to loan him a horse so that he might go to the distant city of Samara, where Death will not be able to find him. The merchant agrees, and the servant gallops away. Later that day, the merchant also sees Death in the market, and asks him, ‘Why did you make a threatening gesture to my servant when you saw him this morning?’ ‘I did not threaten him,’ Death said. ‘That gesture was only my start of surprise. I was astonished to see him here in Baghdad, because I have an appointment with him tonight in Samara.’”
(From Suzanne Clothier’s Bones Would Rain from the Sky.)


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

MrGSD said:


> I'm sorry if it upset you car2ner or anyone else for that matter by posting that. It wasn't my intention. I'm the type that is not afraid to face anything head on. But you do make a good point about putting it away, and that may be the best way to handle it. All the other pics are fine and I enjoy looking at them for the joy they brought me.
> 
> 
> edit...even if the pics bring a tear because they're a tear of joy if that makes sense to anyone


not a problem. actually I think it is a privilege to be able to share these emotions with people who get it.


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## mkculs (Jan 24, 2019)

My heart goes out to you. Certain pics just tug at our hearts too much at certain times. You are seeing what your emotions lead you to see. Please do not torture yourself with this one thought/picture. Try to focus on the happy memories and on knowing she is pain-free forever.

You will see her someday, when you cross the bridge. She will be happy while waiting.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

I spent the last several days reflecting on what has transpired over the last month. Still difficult at times trying to deal with the loss, but each day gets better. As long as I don't dwell on certain memories too much, I'm fine. One such memory is when I would sit in my recliner with the leg lift raised. Marley liked to jump up and stretch herself out with her head on my thigh and fall asleep. She'd often stay there for an hour or so, sound asleep and boy what a feeling of peacefulness and tranquility that brought. 

This past Friday brought a sense of closure after I picked up her remains. I am finally at peace knowing she is back here at her home, where she belongs instead of buried in some mass grave or whatever they do with the deceased. I don't know if it's customary or not, but the hospital also gave me a mold of her paw print. Almost lost it when I first saw it, but managed to somehow keep my composure. Her spirit is still very much alive with this proudly displayed on our coffee table...


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

I hope I didn't violate a forum rule by excessive use of the ~like~button. But honestly each and everyone one of the replies were heartfelt and deserving of such. There are few that would have gotten a double like if that was an option. 

I never even gave it a thought that I was subconsciously blaming myself. But it makes sense and now I look at that pic with a different frame of mind. So here's a *BIG THANKS* to those who pointed that out to me!!

Little did I know last fall when I joined, how meaningful and helpful this forum and its members would be. Being able to share this ordeal with like minded folks was a godsend. So once again, thank you everyone for so graciously helping me get through one of my worst ever experiences!!


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

I forgot to mention a couple things previously:


When the Dr called last Saturday and told me Marley passed, she also asked me a question. She said it was a CT state law that she had to ask if Marley had bitten anyone in the last 10 days. Naturally I said no, but I sure wasn't expecting to be asked something like that. Anyone ever hear of this law?

While I was reviewing all the paperwork I had for Marley and getting it organized in a folder, I came across the papers from her breeder. It states there is a 1 year genetic health guarantee. Would Marley's condition fall under this coverage? I only ask for future knowledge as I have no intention of pursuing any recourse. I say that mainly because of the possibility that the breeder might replace the puppy? Not that I don't want another...because I will... but I couldn't possibly bear to go through the heartbreak that I just did again. And the risk of repeating it is pretty high IMO by getting another pup from this breeder. This ordeal definitely took a few years off my life...


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

She was only 9 months, so I would think she WOULD fall under the 1 year health guarantee? Never thought about that! 
A small thought is that if I was the breeder...I would want to know that Marley had passed, and that it was due to some strange large growth that appeared before the age of one. It would make me sad...but after all, if I am in the business of breeding GSDs, I would want to make sure that this is something that's not passed down to any other dogs!!! 
IF I were the breeder, I would feel terrible and would of course offer you a healthy pup from another litter - making sure it was not from Marley's bloodline...but would also totally understand if you declined. 

The bite question is weird! 
Maybe they are collecting data for some purpose...(tracking dogs put down for biting...?)


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

I just contacted the breeder and while he was sorry, he stated that Marley's issue was not covered by the PA 1 year Genetic Health Guarantee. I didn't push it as I don't need anymore grief and anguish right now. But now my wheels are spinning...I spent almost $8K for this and he couldn't at least offer a refund of the purchase price. I need to look into this guarantee more as it is a state sponsored program. I would love to know what actually defines Genetic Heath problems.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

...and with that said, here I go again letting $$$ cloud my thinking. I just need to let it go and move on. By pursuing any recourse, I'm just delaying the healing and allowing myself to chase a nickle for a penny reward.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Regarding the breeder: There's the "right" thing to do and there's the "I did nothing wrong" thing. It's a real turn off to me when they choose "I'm doing nothing wrong" instead of doing what, while maybe outside what is truly specified, is "right." 



My favorite breeder gave me a pup when I failed to xray my dog's hips until she was 4 and they turned out not so good. He didn't need to do that. It was very generous. It was over the top ethical. 



I had a tremendous battle with no good results (I could have gone to court but that would have taken a lot of time I didn't have to give - transaction 2 - 3 hour drive away in another state) with the first purchased dog. Not ethical, not good, never went back. (Dog lived fine but stud wasn't who it was supposed to be, registration screwed up, never resolved.) 



So in my book - it is quite alright to be sadly disappointed with the breeder and the convoluted thinking that they use to duck the guarantee. And I think it is just fine to feel that disappointment on top of the pain of loosing a pup - especially this pup. In myself, I would expect to be all over the place with this - sadness, disappointment, anger, frustration. If the breeder had offered something, it would have changed the dynamic - it wouldn't have eased the pain, but perhaps it would have made you feel like they were caring and ethical. 



My take-away - you went above and beyond for this pup. You did everything right - doing what you could for the pup medically at great expense and -- including contacting the breeder and follow up about the guarantee. Her short life was spent in the best possible home for her.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

If a dog who died bit someone in the last 10 days, they have to check to see if the dog had rabies.

A catastrophe like this is almost certainly genetic unless Marley ingested something horribly toxic at a very young age--or it could be a combination of both.

It would be great if the breeder gave you back your purchase price to help pay the vet bills. Unfortunately, this almost never happens.

You are smart not to want another puppy from this breeder. If it was genetic or the breeder has something toxic on his property, you could go through the same thing again.

>> I just need to let it go and move on. By pursuing any recourse,
>> I'm just delaying the healing and allowing myself to chase a 
>> nickle for a penny reward.

You are a very wise person.

If it was me, though, I would politely let the breeder know that I will be telling folks about what happened to Marley and who the breeder is. This is not vindictiveness--people should have this info so they can stay away from this breeder's lines.

When you do get another puppy, look very closely into the longevity of the breeder's dogs. Some of the quality American lines have dogs that live to be 15 or 16. Some useful info here:

German Shepherds Longevity

I don't think Norberge is still breeding, but I think Joelle German Shepherds still is, and for sure Ranita Kennels in Illinois is, and they use some of the long-lived lines. I have worked with some of the Ranita Kennels GSDs as a dog trainer, and they have excellent temperaments. Also the breeder is totally honest about the personalities of her dogs and puppies. The dogs are hock walkers, but after 30+ years of seeing everything that can go wrong with health and temperament in GSDs, I've learned to focus on what matters. And her dogs are beautiful and they get around just fine.

I know from much personal experience that the only thing that helped when a dog crossed over was to get another puppy asap, even if I didn't feel totally ready. Wherever Marley is right now, she doesn't want you to be heartbroken, so please don't feel like you're betraying her by getting another puppy as soon as you're up to it. It's the best way to honor her and what she meant to you. And it will heal your heart like nothing else can.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

This is most likely congenital or just bad luck not genetic. A vet can tell you if its genetic, not the breeder. The right thing to do would be cover this but Regardless. Would you want another dog of that bloodline?

You are in PA? I can help you find a good breeder when you are ready. But I would walk away from this knowing you did everything possible


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thank you both for the above replies. It does me a lot of good knowing others recognize what I'm doing and what I've done...right or wrong. I have another appt for my knee again today,,,grr, it's getting old too! But I'll return later. 


@JonRob
"I know from much personal experience that the only thing that helped when a dog crossed over was to get another puppy asap, even if I didn't feel totally ready. Wherever Marley is right now, she doesn't want you to be heartbroken, so please don't feel like you're betraying her by getting another puppy as soon as you're up to it. It's the best way to honor her and what she meant to you. And it will heal your heart like nothing else can"


Thanks for saying that as that echoes my exact thoughts...
Yet why do I feel so sorry for her instead of myself? She deserved so much more than what she got...


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Jax08 said:


> This is most likely congenital or just bad luck not genetic. A vet can tell you if its genetic, not the breeder. The right thing to do would be cover this but Regardless. Would you want another dog of that bloodline?
> 
> You are in PA? I can help you find a good breeder when you are ready. But I would walk away from this knowing you did everything possible


 No I'm in CT and so far have a list of about 15 or so breeders that I'm researching. I'm all ears if you can point to a reputable breeder. PA is within my reach and I am ready!! 



I have to cut it short for now or I'll be late for my appt.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

When you get back, message me what you want in a dog. I'm new car hunting today


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

"Yet why do I feel so sorry for her instead of myself?"

When such a young dog dies, any decent person feels that the dog was cheated, so your response is totally normal.

It helps to keep in mind that Marley is not gone, just crossed over. Do you really think such an awesome dog could be totally destroyed? Her body is gone, but the spirit that is Marley is still here.

Good luck with your knee. The last thing you need right now is more problems.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Yesterday I received the full medical report for Marley from the hospital. Most of the language requires a medical degree in order to understand it. The final analysis of what the mass was or what her condition was labeled, was called: Myxoid Leiomyoma


Her surgical Dr did an outstanding job of explaining everything to me through out the hospital stay, but I'm still unsure exactly what this is. I even tried to google it and all that did was confuse me even more due to the medical terms. I'll likely pay a visit to my local vet in the next day or so and she might be able to explain it better. But if there's anyone here that feels they can explain it in simpler terms, I'd sincerely appreciate it. My reason for wanting to understand it better is that if there is anything I could have done to prevent it, I'd like to know. Or was it simply a fluke that was an act of Mother Nature?


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Fluke that's act of Mother Nature :-(

I took a quick look and apparently humans get it, too. 
(In humans, it's often called "fibroids")

It's a rubbery tumor that grows out of your smooth muscle cells (some sort of malfunction in the muscle cells in that area?)
It is "benign", meaning that its cells don't change and harm your other cells (unlike cancer).
But it can grow large enough that it interferes with internal organs.

The word is from leio- + myo- + -oma, "smooth-muscle tumor" (thanks Wikipedia)
"Myxoid" means that the tumor shows some breakdown into a mucus-like substance, or in some places is made of a mucus-like substance?

There is no real way to prevent, whether you are human or canine, besides keeping a healthy diet and lifestyle.

It is rare and yes, it can be *hereditary.* (Do you hear that, Breeder?)

In cases of large leiomyomas in humans, the treatment is also surgery +followups. 
For smaller tumors, humans can take hormones/drugs to shrink them or contain their size.


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thanks you @GSDchoice! With your explanation, I'm understanding it better. Her Dr did say it originated from a muscle so that much I knew. Is there anything in a pedigree that would indicate something like this has occurred? I'm thinking no, other than a breeder being honest if questioned. Then again, would anyone even ask unless they had experienced this with a pup. 



Health will be my #1 priority with my next girl. And I'm not the least bit hesitant to discuss my concerns about this with the breeder.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

I think your odds of getting two dogs that get this condition, would be like getting hit by lightning twice! 

It's a rare kind of tumor - although a variant of it ("uterine fibroids") is more commonly seen in young human women...it doesn't seem to be common at all in dogs!

But yes, need to be careful about other health conditions that GSDs can get, so do good research into your breeder and his dogs...

Again, so sorry about your Marley. :-((

But you did all the right things.
Here are little bits taken out of a medical article that may make you feel better about having chosen to operate:

"_Early diagnosis and prompt treatment of the tumor generally yields better outcomes than a late diagnosis and delayed treatment_"

"_individuals with overall excellent health have better prognosis compared with those with poor health_"

"_Age of the individual: Younger individuals have a better prognosis than older individuals_"


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## MrGSD (Dec 7, 2018)

Thanks, I sincerely appreciate your thoughts as well as everyone else's that participated in the discussion of this tragic event. I honestly feel that I made the right choice and every bit of info, like what you just posted, confirms that I did. 



Interesting enough...her surgical Dr just called to see how I was doing. That was very thoughtful of her  and continues to show me that Marley was in the best place possible for treatment. 



However, there is some new news. Evidently the hospital doesn't take matters like this lightly. Unbeknown to me, they sent out the entire mass that was removed for further testing. While the previous biopsy came back benign, the latest testing of the entire mass showed it to be malignant. That made me sit up straight for sure! I knew that just due to the size of the mass alone could result in being fatal for her, but being malignant confirms it. I am so glad I made the decision that I did as without a doubt she would have had serious problems eventually. And knowing she didn't suffer from it yet puts my mind at ease.


We also discussed my thoughts about had I had her spayed at 6 mos instead of 9, would the mass have been smaller and less risk for removal. She said anything is possible, but there was a significant chance that if it was smaller, it may not even have been seen by my local vet when she was going to spay her. WHEW!!...never even thought of that. It must be the optimism in me that failed to recognize that possibility. 



One final note...she also told me that there is not a lot of experience(?) with something like this due to its rarity and lack of funding for research. But with the results from all the testing from Marley, they may very well aid in saving someones pet in the future. Knowing that Marley did not die in vain actually put a smile on my face if anyone can truly understand what I mean.



So all in all, this was the best I could have done for Marley...RIP my sweet and precious girl. And yes I am finally at peace with the outcome.


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