# Gsd's and mals



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't see many mals around here and am trying to get a better idea of what their overall temperament is like in comparison to gsds. I know a few mals and met others at our club (akc), they are welcoming and friendly overall, but not necessarily seeking of attention. I know a couple others that are/were complete nutters. 

With such a small sample size I would like to hear others views on them and what it's like to live with them.


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## Gunner07312017 (Nov 28, 2018)

Mals take a lot of work. They require a lot of stimulation and exercise . They need to work they need to be exercised , itÃÂs a must. Mals are WORKING dogs . Please keep in mind the two temperaments between a mal and German Shepard are very different . If you have the time and dedication and you want a working dog then consider a mal. They do chew and they do destroy stuff especially if they arenÃÂt being worked or exersiced . The mals you met have probably had ALOT of time and training put into them.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Woof Project is a Mal rescue that extends from CA to WA... perhaps you can connect with some of their volunteers and fosters in your area, just to give another perspective of day to day life with the breed. Dogs that may not be purely from working lines, from the best breeders or with tons of experience and training put into them... will give you a chance to see their strengths and weaknesses in a different light. I’ve always found this to be beneficial with breeds I’m not familiar with. Read the descriptions of the dogs on their site - look for trends.

Often times when this breed comparison is discussed I see a focus on energy and drive... ala “a gsd on crack”. An area that I find extremely important but often overlooked is the sensitivity of the breed. Generally speaking, a GSD is more forgiving and an inexperienced handler gets a lot more do-overs.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> Generally speaking, a GSD is more forgiving and an inexperienced handler gets a lot more do-overs.


That was the deciding factor for me when I was trying to decide between the two. In general, I think you need to be a pretty detail oriented person with a mal, thats the opposite of me. I've been around some pretty friendly ones though. A friends would come off the field and climb in my lap. 100mph, but still friendly, LOl.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Fodder said:


> Woof Project is a Mal rescue that extends from CA to WA... perhaps you can connect with some of their volunteers and fosters in your area, just to give another perspective of day to day life with the breed. Dogs that may not be purely from working lines, from the best breeders or with tons of experience and training put into them... will give you a chance to see their strengths and weaknesses in a different light. I’ve always found this to be beneficial with breeds I’m not familiar with. Read the descriptions of the dogs on their site - look for trends.
> 
> Often times when this breed comparison is discussed I see a focus on energy and drive... ala “a gsd on crack”. An area that I find extremely important but often overlooked is the sensitivity of the breed. Generally speaking,* a GSD is more forgiving and an inexperienced handler gets a lot more do-overs*.


I've heard this (bolded) mentioned before and get the gist of it, but it's still a bit unclear to me what it really means. 

I looked at the Woof project site and there is a foster local to me. I may try to reach out to them and see what they have to say. Thanks for pointing them out.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> That was the deciding factor for me when I was trying to decide between the two. In general, I think you need to be a pretty detail oriented person with a mal, thats the opposite of me. I've been around some pretty friendly ones though. A friends would come off the field and climb in my lap. 100mph, but still friendly, LOl.


Im not detail oriented, this could be a problem. I watched a mal going through the cgc a couple weeks back. During the part where the owner leaves their dog with the stranger the mal looked at the evaluator siting in the chair, jumped in their lap and relaxed, lol


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

An unfair (or even perceived unfair) correction on a sensitive dog and they’ll remember it til the day they die.... the manifestation may vary - some will bite you, some shut down, some simply check out and blow you off.

Just one example.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

My opinion is constantly evolving, I haven’t really made up my mind (maybe I never will, lol).

I met a number of performance/working bred tervuren last summer, when I was training out of state for trial prep. They totally changed my mental stereotypes. SUPER nice dogs. 

I met a new mal today at a trial. The dog was fast, clear headed, biddable, and adored her handler. The handler was a teenage girl with a slight build. Super cool dog. Didn’t leak or scream or act like an idiot. 

I’ve met a bunch of others that definitely aren’t my cup of tea.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

WIBackpacker said:


> My opinion is constantly evolving, I haven’t really made up my mind (maybe I never will, lol).
> 
> I met a number of performance/working bred tervuren last summer, when I was training out of state for trial prep. They totally changed my mental stereotypes. SUPER nice dogs.
> 
> ...


I find myself in a similar boat.
I’ve loved every Terv I’ve met (considerably less to be fair), but the Mals have been hit or miss.

That said, I’ll probably still end up with a Mal someday **slaps forehead**


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Just from every description I have ever heard of mals, it is not a dog I will ever own! And, I don't like the way they look which doesn't help, either. I find well bred GSDs breathtaking to look at, mals...meh. doesn't do anything for me. 

I have boarded some field labs that were just like crack on wheels. Not a dog I could live with for sure. Some bird dogs I couldn't live with either.

To each their own.


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## Dionne2u (Nov 5, 2018)

Beautiful, smart animal. Very independent and runners. They were bred to run and run they must or destroy what's around them. German Shepherds require a lot of attention, with a mal you will need that abd double. 
I love the dog but realize they don't fit into my lifestyle nor would i try to make them adapt.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Just from every description I have ever heard of mals, it is not a dog I will ever own! And, I don't like the way they look which doesn't help, either. I find well bred GSDs breathtaking to look at, mals...meh. doesn't do anything for me.
> 
> I have boarded some field labs that were just like crack on wheels. Not a dog I could live with for sure. Some bird dogs I couldn't live with either.
> 
> To each their own.


My view of them may be a bit skewed as most of those I've met were in akc venues. They were calm when needed and ready to go when asked and their athletic ability is something else. I agree that the GSD is the better looking dog, mals can look "basic" for lack of a better discription, however I lean toward form following function so looks are not way up on my list. 

Mals tend to be longer lived and healthier as a breed or maybe that's just greener grass thinking? idk I do like their smaller size and physical ability, both those traits will be important to me in future considerations. I wasn't sold on German shepherds early on, getting started with them was my wife's idea, that said they quickly became my favorite. I would like to keep an open mind about mals as I may find them just as enjoyable have.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I have a couple different types of malinois/workingline terv. I love my import working terv, and she is a real looker, too. High energy, eager to learn, super fast, great with poeple and dogs, super fun dog. Able to perform top levels in protection sports, no nerve issues. Really really happy with her. 

My Czech IPO girl, she's a bit more twitchy, super ball drive, great full grips, really easy to train, loves people once she is introduced, and she can run like the wind. Super attached, follows me everywhere (not a runner in that she'd ever run off, she won't). Not as pretty, in my opinion, as I prefer the long coat look, but she's all muscle and legs and has a nice head. 

My KNPV line female long-coat malinois is great, and why I imported an offical terv for my next working dog, she's a tad more civil/serious than my young import but amazing with kids, great at the vet, super pretty dog, and my heart girl. I never worry about a thing when she is with me. 

So there's a spectrum, and just as with GSD different lines, different types, different preferences. I really really like my young working terv, and am excited about future litters out of her. She is my "ideal" malinois. She is from the Netherlands, a working tervuren, but out of well known KNPV working malinois lines. Incredible dog.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Not a fan of the Tervs, pretty dogs but the couple I’ve seen are too soft and sensitive for my liking. There’s a 9 mo in our training group that hops around a track sideways if she encounters insects on the track and doesn’t drive into subjects. 

Whoever said you get more do overs with a GSD than a Mal, that is exactly what I need as I’m not an experienced handler. 

There is no better looking dog than a GSD imo ?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

@Muskeg what are they like in the home? Are they loose together?


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Yes, they are. They are very calm in the home and non-destructive, but they get daily training and exercise. I recently had to up the structure due to pregnancy hormones. But overall, yes, loose in the house together. 

Ausland- coat is the only difference between my working terv and a working mal. The showline tervs are softer. And it depends a lot on the breeder. My gal's dad is a working K9 in the Netherlands. KNPV PH-1 titles don't generally go to soft dogs.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

To me there seems to be something almost pointy or catlike in their faces sometimes? I'd think I'd like them because I like a more square dog. A lot of the shepherds are way too extreme for me in one way or the other conformation wise and in that way the mals are better.

Something heavier (in a good way) more majestic or regal about some GSDs. 

I am sure mals are more agile and probably have better health. For me, my shepherds are plenty agile enough to do anything I've ever needed or wanted to do with them so I don't feel we are lacking there, but I can understand how someone doing a more athletic sport than I do with mine could really want and appreciate the athleticism, agility, lightness on the feet. 

I know a malinois isn't a dog for me. The only tervuren I have encountered in training was a nasty, reactive dog who seemed to enjoy blowing up at dogs and startling them. Owner not super pleasant either. 

I'm not even sure I'll ever own another working line GSD...my white dog like I said is just my cup of tea. Loves to train in different disciplines, loves to hike, tries very hard for me in anything I've ever asked him to do but also has never had a problem when i just can't get it all done and he gets minimal stuff- just a short walk or even just getting thrown in with daycare dogs for a run, he is never like following me around demanding anything. He can just kick back and be a pet for a week with little extra and wait for me to have time and energy to get back to it and he's fine with that and doesn't become difficult and really never has even when he was younger. At 3, he is in the prime of his life now. But he'll also go work his butt off for me all weekend at a trial and go give it his all in the ring even if he's exhausted by the end of the weekend. A friend of mine videoed a couple of obedience runs for me and I could see the difference in his last run of the weekend vs the first where he was getting really tired but I still didn't feel like it was a meh performance. He still did his goofy little hoppy leap takeoff on the recall. It was just a smaller takeoff than the first one. I feel like energy, drive, what he's like to live with, he's a perfect dog for me.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Muskeg said:


> Yes, they are. They are very calm in the home and non-destructive, but they get daily training and exercise. I recently had to up the structure due to pregnancy hormones. But overall, yes, loose in the house together.
> 
> Ausland- coat is the only difference between my working terv and a working mal. The showline tervs are softer. And it depends a lot on the breeder. My gal's dad is a working K9 in the Netherlands. KNPV PH-1 titles don't generally go to soft dogs.


Yeah I've only seen a couple at tracking events and now one in our training group that is too sensitive and insecure for my liking, my guess is these may be show line dogs. Very small sample size and no intention to offend.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

@Muskeg I'm assuming the 3rd pic is your knpv female? Her coat looks longer than your mal for sure, but how long is it? From the pic it resembles what some would call plush coat on a GSD? She's a beauty. My wife's new pup form Poland is a coat and he is something else. He's wgsl and he's changed my opinion of that line, he is not soft by any stretch of the imagination, social too which I like.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I would call her coat medium length? It's not crazy long like the show tervs or a rough collie, and is easily manageable- I don't groom her beyond snipping out any dreads that develop behind the ears or on the haunches. I think they call them "demi-coat" in Europe, but in Europe she'd also be registered as a terv (out of malinois). My younger, has an even shorter terv coat, although her coat could get longer as she gets older. 

Yes, I love the social-confidence of my young terv. There's certainly intensity and drive to spare, too. I take her into dog-friendly stores often and she'll give me intense focus and ignore everyone, but if I release her to say hello, she loves it. She especially loves kids, and is really wonderful with a 5 week old singleton pup I'm socializing. So, yeah, I'm smitten.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Mals and GSD both run a pretty heavy gambit of personality and energy level especially on the west coast. California breeding stock tends to be soft and sensitive, with the exception of maybe Debbie Skinners dogs. That is of course a fairly gross generalization. Your results will vary. I have run into as many nervy GSD as I have malinois. The big issue tends to be when the malinois is nervy it will still go forward and nail people. I've run into plenty of nice stable mals with little to no working ability, especially out of the woof project dogs. Every so often there's a good working prospect in the bunch but it is pretty rare. If you want to be competitive and title stay away from the rescues.

There is nothing out there like a great malinois. That being said they are more of an experts kind of dog. Things can go very right or very very very wrong. There are plenty out there that are pretty easy, but the working line hyped up ones can be downright dangerous if you aren't careful. A good 70% of them that I have met in person have bitten a person and drawn blood as adults. Whenever someone shows up with a malinois for behavior modification evaluation and they say it has bitten someone I kind of want to say well yeah duh its a malinois. I've seen expert trainers that did almost everything right and are careful and they still have bite histories on their dogs, and those dogs were fairly social. I am not a big fan of people keeping them as pets. I am surprised it works out as often as it does.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Baillif said:


> Mals and GSD both run a pretty heavy gambit of personality and energy level especially on the west coast. California breeding stock tends to be soft and sensitive, with the exception of maybe Debbie Skinners dogs. That is of course a fairly gross generalization. Your results will vary. I have run into as many nervy GSD as I have malinois. The big issue tends to be when the malinois is nervy it will still go forward and nail people. I've run into plenty of nice stable mals with little to no working ability, especially out of the woof project dogs. Every so often there's a good working prospect in the bunch but it is pretty rare. If you want to be competitive and title stay away from the rescues.
> 
> There is nothing out there like a great malinois. That being said they are more of an experts kind of dog. Things can go very right or very very very wrong. There are plenty out there that are pretty easy, but the working line hyped up ones can be downright dangerous if you aren't careful. A good 70% of them that I have met in person have bitten a person and drawn blood as adults. Whenever someone shows up with a malinois for behavior modification evaluation and they say it has bitten someone I kind of want to say well yeah duh its a malinois. I've seen expert trainers that did almost everything right and are careful and they still have bite histories on their dogs, and those dogs were fairly social. I am not a big fan of people keeping them as pets. I am surprised it works out as often as it does.


I mentioned previously that my view may be skewed a bit by seeing mals at Akc venues, but it sounds like “skewed “ may be an understatement. I’m far from an expert and would probably describe my handling skills as novice at best. Akc/ukc is the extent of competing and only in novice A. My original thought was to search out breeders producing wl female gsds on the smaller end of the standard, but longevity is becoming more and more questionable, not to mention the laundry list of potential health and temperament problems.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I have a young handler friend that has shown Mals in AKC for a working line breeder. They’ve done remarkably well. She’s finished both of them (championships), and one might even have his GrandCh by now. She’s put some obedience and rally titles on them too. They’re the only Mals I’ve ever been around, and they seemed like reasonable dogs. She kind of has a magic touch though, and loves to train.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

A Malinois is a top notch working dog. IMO they can out perform a GSD although they are typically lighter but they are lightning fast. This is a general statement though. The temperaments vary just as they do in GSDs. In general, a GSD will have a more stable, calm and consistent temperament and very hard to beat. There are a number of hybrids that have been interbred with GSDs and are wonderful dogs but they each have their own issues. Indiscriminate breeding has brought in many undesirable traits and characteristics into the GSD breed so know what you are looking for before buying.

If you are up to a lot of exercise and know how to handle a dog (talking good experience) a Belgian Sheep Dog or a Belgian Tervuren would be worth a look. If you are not experienced and want a calm family dog, an Alsatian would be an option.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

dogfaeries said:


> I have a young handler friend that has shown Mals in AKC for a working line breeder. They’ve done remarkably well. She’s finished both of them (championships), and one might even have his GrandCh by now. She’s put some obedience and rally titles on them too. They’re the only Mals I’ve ever been around, and they seemed like reasonable dogs. She kind of has a magic touch though, and loves to train.


This sounds like what I'm seeing at our club. One of the owners I've spoken to has said that hers are "showline" mals. She's retired and does spend lots of time working them. She is very successful in multple AKC venues and tends to clean house at the shows.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Nigel said:


> This sounds like what I'm seeing at our club. One of the owners I've spoken to has said that hers are "showline" mals. She's retired and does spend lots of time working them. She is very successful in multple AKC venues and tends to clean house at the shows.




I know the one working line Mal that she finished also has a job. I’m thinking some sort of drug dog. It was early last year when I saw him, so I can’t remember exactly what he does. He’s not a pet.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

dogfaeries said:


> I know the one working line Mal that she finished also has a job. I’m thinking some sort of drug dog. It was early last year when I saw him, so I can’t remember exactly what he does. He’s not a pet.


I’ve known of a few people with cotrtacts for private drug dog service. Not exactly sure what types of places these are, rehab centers or something?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Nigel said:


> I’ve known of a few people with cotrtacts for private drug dog service. Not exactly sure what types of places these are, rehab centers or something?




Not sure. I’ll ask her next time I see her, what he does.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Full mouth bite, retrieving, jumping obstacles for food, sit, spins, shakes, downs pretty reliably, and asking to go out to potty. This is my 5-week old malinois puppy. We call him the boy genius, but... this is a pretty special breed and this boy will need a working, experienced home. I'm sure a good GSD puppy is the same, but this is the first pup I've raised that is showing so much promise so young. He only opened his eyes three weeks ago, after all. 

A good malinois pup, in the right hands, is a dog of a lifetime.


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

ausdland said:


> Not a fan of the Tervs, pretty dogs but the couple I’ve seen are too soft and sensitive for my liking. There’s a 9 mo in our training group that hops around a track sideways if she encounters insects on the track and doesn’t drive into subjects.
> 
> Whoever said you get more do overs with a GSD than a Mal, that is exactly what I need as I’m not an experienced handler.
> 
> There is no better looking dog than a GSD imo ?


Anyone that likes other breeds (as I do) don't get uptight - this is just a joke.


There are two different dog types. 1. Germans Shepherd Dogs. 2. Those that wish they were a German Shepherd Dog.


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## michaelr (Aug 5, 2010)

coolgsd said:


> There are two different dog types. 1. Germans Shepherd Dogs. 2. Those that wish they were a German Shepherd Dog.



Got this little print at a touristy souvenir shop in NOLA on a visit some years back. It came different versions with several breeds and I naturally took the one with a GSD for obvious reasons. :smile2:



Apologies for the quality of the photo. If you can't make out the title because of the reflections, it's "self portrait."


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