# Piko Bret Bett



## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

I have seen breeder website/litter information emphasizing Piko Bret Bett (Rudi) where they have lines to him. I am wondering what information people have about "Rudi" beyond what I could find repeated around the different websites.

What I could find is this:
*VELMI DOBRY - 5VQ1/P* (Very Good - what is 5VQ1/P)?? 
PIKO is a large, strong dark sable male with strong bones and strong head, self-confident in any situation. He has strong ball and prey drives, at the same time he's naturally sharp,capable of immediate biting. PIKO is an easily trainable dog which is proven by the number of titles he's completed.

In my pups pedigree, Piko was bred to Java Neresnicka dolina and does anybody have input on this particular pairing?

Thanks, I am trying to learn more about the dogs in Minka's pedigree and I hope I can understand/recognize how these lines might express themselves in her.


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## horsegirl (Aug 11, 2010)

sorry I can't help , but Piko is gorgeous!!!!!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

The only dog I know in either pedigree is Cordon An Sat (but I'm clueless about Czech and Slovac(?) lines.

I can't offer info for you, but I'm just post for a bump that maybe Cliff will see since he's the resident East Bloc man


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Its late at night and I briefly glanced at thi post. I really don't know what is being asked by OP. I think that Piko is probably a very very nice dog. I doubt that he can consistently produce what he is. JMO I also think that the mate to Piko is very important as his pedigree is so different from sire to dam. His sire Furos has very nice genetics. His dam side is not particularly to my liking....doesn't make it bad, just not what I am looking for to breed. There are other things that are not my cup of tea, but again remember part of breeding is the match with two individuals and the other part is the strengths and weaknesses of ancestory and depth of line/inbreeding forming the recombinations of genes to shape traits. A lot to look at and not really fair to speculate in open forum some of my concerns.


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

Hi Clff, thanks for the quick look. To clarify my question - there has been emphasize on the presence of Piko in the pedigree and I am wondering if anyone has more info about Piko beyond the simple statement I found and posted. 

Also wondering what 5VQ1/P means.

Finally, wondering about the combination of Piko and Java. This combination makes up the dam (Ria) to my dog, Minka.

Thanks! Any observations are welcome.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Jinopo.CZ


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

5
required strength, build, refinement
height:
Dog: 63 - 65 cm
Female: 58 - 60 cm

V
wolf grey, dark features

Q
dark pigment

1
considerable hardness, courage and willingness to fight

P
let go sleeve on handler's order


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

When analyzing those letters/numbers, most people look at last two and look for 1 and P. If the number is other than 1 and the letter is N, then it is not considered the best. The letter N connotes that the dog engaged but didnot release the sleeve when commanded. This can be due to training, hardness, or nerves. With many thin nerved dogs they find comfort in the sleeve and won't release. Neverless, you want to see P and not N.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Also why the emphasis on Piko in the pedigree. He is not strongly enough linebred to have an inordinate influence in the pedigree. I would think he brings any more than the other dogs in the pedigree in similar positions and maybe not as much. I guess what I am trying to say is that with a pedigree like Piko, what he is, is probably not as important as what he is made up of.


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> Also why the emphasis on Piko in the pedigree. He is not strongly enough linebred to have an inordinate influence in the pedigree. I would think he brings any more than the other dogs in the pedigree in similar positions and maybe not as much. I guess what I am trying to say is that with a pedigree like Piko, what he is, is probably not as important as what he is made up of.


That makes sense totally to me. I have been wondering how each individual would affect the total especially with the lack of line breeding.

Below is what was stated about the pairing of Ria & Erri and thus my specific interest in this one dog in the pedigree.

"Ria has been imported to breed to Erri z Blatenskeho Zamku. Ria comes from very strong Czech border patrol working lines. Her sire Piko Bret Bett has produced many very serious working dogs in the Czech Republic and the United States. She should produce all black and black sable pups with very strong heads and strong temperaments."

I enjoy reading the posts specific to what a dog/line brings to a pedigree. As time goes on and with involvement in the dog sports I can also learn firsthand.

So I thank everyone who has tried to help me learn more about pedigrees.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

No problem with those quotes....in looking at Piko's pedigree I think the key to his production is having super nerved females. I can see where he will probably pass some sharpness or seriousness, but I think some of that will also have nerve influence from the showlines through his dam.


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

In case anybody else is interested in what I have found, I am including some of my sleuthing.

Found this about Piko's dam and also noticed the 1/N - *Oni Honajzer*
Dorby - 5CKY1/N ZV1
Hips a-Normal

"ONI Honajzer the result of beauty and top training is a strong, solid black female. She produced the exceptional stud dog Ingo von Rudingen. Her grandmother, ASTA v. Hainecker belongs to 100% DDR (East German) blood going back to the best of the old vintage DDR stud dogs in history Don v Rolandsteich in her 3rd generation, along with v. Osterberg and v.Grafental lines. Her grandfather EMON ze Znojemskeho hradu leads the old style show line over VILO v. Arminius a ZVV2 level dog. EMON himself had very nice IPO3, ZVV2 rating and in his time he belonged to the hardest protection dogs in the Czech Republic! Oni is a very well know and well proven producer of exceptional working dogs!!"

Then I had to find out who Ingo vow Rudingen was and found this statement -
"Ingo vom Rudingen was an outstanding producer of East German Border Patrol dogs and his name can be found in the pedigrees of many present day working shepherds through his progeny Held v. Ritterberg, Jeff v. Flämings-Sand, Xanto v.d. Gundorfer Höhe, Viktor v.d. Edelquelle & Robby v. Glockeneck. Ingo vastly improved pigmentation and working abilities within the German Shepherd Breed as a whole and produced many fine working shepherds."

So Piko is out of Furo Kamos and Oni Honajzer, and all 3 show a "1" with a "P" except Oni has an "N" ---- considerable hardness, courage and willingness to fight.

Piko was born in 2002, I can't help but wonder where he is now.

Now I would like to learn more about Ria's dam Java Neresnícka dolina whose dam is Neresnicka Dolina and sire **** Tobani.

It seems like looking at this information should start giving me an idea on what I might see in my puppy?


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Here is the Ingo I know....
V Ingo von Rudingen - German shepherd dog

Dam is not ONI though.


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

gagsd said:


> Here is the Ingo I know....
> V Ingo von Rudingen - German shepherd dog
> 
> Dam is not ONI though.


Interesting! I found that blurb in a couple different places like this one http://www.sapphireshepherds.com/dogs/lary.htm about Lary Bret Bett.


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

And that goes to prove you have to really research. If you look back into Oni's pedigree you will find Ingo. So that's all backwards.

Oni


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Ingo was out of Vefa von Rudigen. You cannot get enough information from websites to give you predictive tendencies in litters or seldom even dogs. It takes years of seeing dogs, talking to people with first hand knowledge, training of dogs to understand the terms, anecedotal information, seminars where you get a chance to pick brains of instructor or others in attendance. The most you can get on the internet is enough to be confused.....enjoy your dog and get out to trial and see some of the lines in your dog.


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> Ingo was out of Vefa von Rudigen. You cannot get enough information from websites to give you predictive tendencies in litters or seldom even dogs. It takes years of seeing dogs, talking to people with first hand knowledge, training of dogs to understand the terms, anecedotal information, seminars where you get a chance to pick brains of instructor or others in attendance. The most you can get on the internet is enough to be confused.....enjoy your dog and get out to trial and see some of the lines in your dog.


True, nothing can make up for actual experience. I am finding the breed survey info to be interesting and from them trying to get even a small glimpse into these different types.

My pup: So far she has been very solid. But no matter what happens we are learning together and having a great time! With my previous male, I never got past the BH due to cruciate injury and that was disappointing because the trainers and the breeder really liked what they saw. I kept in touch with the sport for a while but after he died I moved on to other competitive sports. I like competing and the training to get there is what makes things fun! 

Thanks Cliff for your input and insight on these breed type discussions.


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## Smoktya (Jun 8, 2010)

*Web-page with number and letter meanings*

Here is an actual web-page that explains what all the numbers and letters mean, not just what Piko is. Hope this helps

Aritar Bastet - Breed survey info


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

Smoktya said:


> Here is an actual web-page that explains what all the numbers and letters mean, not just what Piko is. Hope this helps
> 
> Aritar Bastet - Breed survey info


Thanks! Hacked the URL to Aritar Bastet - chovatelská stanice n?meckých ov?ák? and found the site to be interesting! 

Quote from site - "My name is Zbynek Divis DVM. I dedicate to training and breeding German Shepherds since 1983.I worked fifteen years as veterinary doctor – officer in the Police kennel „z Pohraniční straze“ (z PS) in the Libejovice.During 1991 – 2005 we produced over as 1 500 puppys for Police Czechoslovakia, from 1993 only for Police Czech.rep.In the 2005 was STOP the kennel z Pohranicni straze in the Libejovice and from 2005 I am in the private."

Thanks!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Zybnek really know his stuff and is a great breeder.


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## Smoktya (Jun 8, 2010)

Cliff has one of his dogs now (Chris) and is getting a few more from him and he is the one who turned me on to this breeder. Hopefully in a few years i will be getting a puppy from Cliff and these excellent bloodlines.


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