# New Dog...Concerned About Growling



## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

Hi everyone!

I used to visit this forum a few years ago when I was researching GSDs. My husband and I (finally) adopted our first GSD yesterday! He's a 5 year old male GSD named Duke. He is a great dog and seems to be adjusting well to his new home. We do have one concern though...

On the way home we bought him a rawhide bone and gave it to him in the back of the car. He really didn't pay much attention to it. In the house he also pretty much ignores it most of the time. Occasionally he will pick it up and walk around with it and then lay it down. Our concern is this: when he has his rawhide bone in his mouth, if we reach for it or try to take it he growls at us. Sometimes he will drop it and stand over it or lay in front of it as if he's daring us to try to get it. If we reach for it or approach it he growls. He even once growled and raised his lip and showed his teeth. This really scares me. I am afraid to assert myself with him because I know he can take my hand off if he wants to. His foster dad told us we need to stop this behavior quickly and let him know we are in control. He said if we back down when he does this he will know he has the upper hand. How do we do this safely?! And should we be concerned about this behavior? Otherwise he is super friendly and calm. He has played with a tennis ball and let us reach for it and touch it when it was in his mouth. It's not like he loves this bone...he hardly messes with it at all. But if he has it he certainly doesn't want us trying to take it. 

Please help! 

Thanks,
Holly


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Star hand feeding NOW and NILIF- look up NILIF on here. He is resource guarding because he is afraid you will take his bone and never give it back so he is protecting his resource. However, of course that is not okay behavior and if you fear him he will use your fear to push things to and past the limits. I would not give him any bones right now first of all and hand feed each meal so he understands you control the food, but will give it to him for behaving appropriately. Once he trusts you through hand feeding because it will teach him you not only give food back but control it gaining leadership work on the drop command with a toy. 

To do this I like to have 2 high value toys....something they love to play with. Put one in his mouth with the other out of sight. Then while he is engaged with toy 1 bring out toy 2 from hiding and say "drop it". Usually they will drop it instinctively to inspect the other toy. Give him the other toy and tons of praise the minute he drops it. You can also use a clicker and treats to really mark the dropping behavior or actually use the treat as the lure instead of toy 2. So instead you would bring the food near his nose, say drop it, allow him to drop the toy, click, and treat. I would do this for a few weeks before transitioning this to an actual bone. 

When you decide he is good with drop it add a bone to the mix. Give him his bone, then wave a treat by his nose, say drop it, click, and treat. Keep making him drop the bone for a treat or toy and in a month he'll understand that when he drops whatever you want from his mouth he is given something else and gets his bone back.

You need to totally remove bones from him now because when he growls and you back off he is learning he controls his resources and not you. This can turn into turf guarding, food guarding, and other possessive behaviors that will lead to someone getting bit eventually. Say bye bye to bones for now, hand feed all meals, and work on drop it. Some OB classes with you guys even if he knows the commands would be really good just to assert your leadership and help form a bond. Right now your a stranger trying to take his stuff and he is just worried he won't get it back if he doesn't lay down the law.


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Not advising you to do this, but if my dog ever bared his teeth at me for any reason, I would absolutely rock his world. He would be laid up for days getting over it. If he only shows this behavior where his rawhide bone is concerned, then take it away from him and never give it back. He is definately resource guarding and this needs to be corrected asap before it gets any worse. Do you practice NILIF?


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for the quick responses!

1. We were already thinking maybe we should just lay off the bone for a while. So we will put it up and not get it out for a while. Like I said, I don't even think he will notice or care. He rarely touches the thing.

2. He does take treats pretty gently from our hands. We have not hand fed him a meal yet, but will try that. We do run our hands through his food before giving it to him. Should we just hold the bowl on our lap and get handfuls of the food and give it to him?

3. We are not familiar with NILIF. I guess I'll have to research it. Do any of you have links to a good summary of the program?

4. Duke's foster dad had the same approach as you did, RazinKain. He told us Duke did this to him once or twice and he grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and laid him down and told him no. He held him there until Duke calmed down and he said Duke didn't challenge him after that. However, my husband and I are very inexperienced with GSDs and with asserting leadership with dogs. We do not feel comfortable doing something like that with Duke...mainly because of fear of how he would react. Since he doesn't know us, we worry he might bite us if we do something like that with him. 

5. He has a tennis ball and he once growled when we tried to take that, but since then he has played with it with us and allowed us to touch it while it is in his mouth and will take it from our hands. I'm hoping it isn't a toy aggression but rather the resource guarding as you both pointed out.

Please offer any other suggestions you might have. And thank you!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I would also correct the snot out of him until he saw the light, but I know what I'm doing and you don't which means it's just not safe for you do to that. For now, you should take the rawhide away from him and anything else that he doesn't want to let you have. Try and find something he likes to play with with you, like tuggy or fetch, and do that so he figures out that playing with you is a good thing.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

RazinKain said:


> Not advising you to do this, but if my dog ever bared his teeth at me for any reason, I would absolutely rock his world. He would be laid up for days getting over it.


Or you might be the one laid up for days getting over abusing your dog. Taking that attitude can cause HUGE problems. How do I know? I have fostered dogs who were beaten and became fear aggressive because of it. In fact, I adopted one and it took years to get him to the point where he was safe around people. I could say a lot more but I'll just leave it at the ultimate goal with your dog should be to establish yourself as a calm, consistent and fair pack leader. You want your dog to trust and respect you and never to fear you. Fear brings out the worst in a dog. 

*To the OP:* Growling is actually a good thing. A dog growl means, "Back off!" You never want to train a growl out of a dog. However, resource guarding is not a desirable behavior. I would follow the instructions for trading up except I would do it with food. You must always have the higher value food in your hand. Here are good step by step instructions: Resource Guarding

Also, rawhides really aren't safe or healthy chew toys. I would just throw that out and once you've got him more comfortable with giving you things you can get him a bully stick or something like that.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Elaine said:


> I would also correct the snot out of him until he saw the light, but I know what I'm doing and you don't which means it's just not safe for you do to that.


What's up with this Elaine? It's just plain bad advice and you know it. If you truly know what you're doing then you don't have to "correct the snot" out of any dog. You know very well that if you do that with a dog you don't know you're likely to end up getting bitten. If it is a dog that you know well then it is a training error on your part.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Absolutely DO NOT try to "CORRECT the snot out of him" now unless like some said you are prepared to fight him. Almost certainly he will try to protect himself and fight given his history I think. "Trading" the thing he has for a higher value thing is the way to go with a strange adult dog and much safer for all.

If he was a little puppy then you could corrct him for that behavior (gently of course0 and even just train him from the start that you or anybody can take anything he has around or in his mouth without him reacting other than a sad look! But not an adult GSD unless you are very prepared for his reaction. 

However, you also can not show any fear or hesitation around him or else he will learn that he is pack leader and can do as he wants to do.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

BowWowMeow said:


> What's up with this Elaine? It's just plain bad advice and you know it. If you truly know what you're doing then you don't have to "correct the snot" out of any dog. You know very well that if you do that with a dog you don't know you're likely to end up getting bitten. If it is a dog that you know well then it is a training error on your part.


Kind of depends on what she means by "correct the snot out of" - might be appropriate for some things and some dogs but certainly not in this particular case for reasons of safty of all involved.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Since you are apprehensive and admit you aren't that dog savvy, I agree with the posters who have said DO NOT correct the snot out of him or you may get a nice bite out of it.

A rawhide, or raw bone, is most likely viewed as high value to him and he's going to defend it. For now, keep those types of things away from him.

I totally agree with feeding him by hand, and I would NOT be messing with his food, as in putting your hands thru it while he's attempting to eat. YOU hold the bowl, YOU dish it out to him. Piece by piece of necessary..

My feeling on messing with food, is, my dogs don't mess with my food or while I'm eating, I'm not going to mess with theirs.

Give him a few weeks to learn to trust you, he sounds like a nice dog otherwise, and heck you could have way worse problems than him 'guarding' 'defending' , high value stuff like bones. 

IF you want to give him something ,,I am assuming your crating him at times?? Buy a kong, fill it with peanut butter, put it in his crate with him, and let him enjoy it in peace.

I also agree with not not showing him fear or hesitation because he will pick up on that and take advantage of it.

For right now, I'd let him settle into his new home and you all can just enjoy each other


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

Thank you so much, everyone! Y'all are making me feel better about this. Something just didn't sit right with us when we thought about correcting him and asserting our authority. We just are not confident doing that right now. Last night the bone was in another room so I just went and picked it up and put it up on a high shelf. I'm sure he won't even notice. 

We don't run our hands through his food WHILE he's eating. We run our hands through it before putting his bowl down. A friend of ours (who is a GSD owner) suggested that so his food will have our scent in it. I tried hand feeding him this morning, but he wasn't interested. He hasn't eaten anything yet today. I think he is just eating lightly since he's still getting used to the place.

Regarding crating...we actually do not have a crate yet. We adopted him on Saturday and had already ordered a crate on Amazon (2nd day air). It should be here tomorrow (Tuesday). We would NOT have done this had his fosters not told us that he can be completely trusted loose in the house. They told us he had never chewed anything in their house. He has slept overnight twice now loose and did not disturb anything. We left him loose in the house yesterday for about 30 minutes while we ran an errand, and he did fine. Today is our first work day with him and we adjusted our schedules so that he won't be home alone for more than 2-3 hours at a time. We will see how it goes. Honestly, we aren't too worried about it. He has shown no interest in chewing anything, and has had no potty accidents.

His fosters told us that he really hasn't shown interest in toys. They tried the Kong with PB but they said he didn't care much about it. We gave him a tennis ball yesterday and he has had a couple of good chewing sessions with it. He likes it, but doesn't play with it a lot. I think the "trading" thing will work better with treats for him. He definitely loves treats and we are able to get him to "perform" for treats.

Can we "trade" with an object, such as a bone, and treats? As in, when we are ready to try something like a bone to train him that it is ok to let us have it, could we give him the bone and then trade up for treats?


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

NILIF is going to be your best bet for this dog. If this was a puppy, or young dog, or even an adult you knew well and had raised since puppyhood - perhaps a correction would be in order.

The combination of a 5 yr old adopted dog, insecure leadership on your part, and resource guarding and not knowing whether he's bluffing or not (don't assume he is, he very well may not be) is not a good combo to correct him.

What I would recommend you do is put a prong collar on him with a drag line in the house. Minimum 6 feet of line. This way you can take the line and issue a correction via the collar, and remove him from the situation.

I'd also ditch the rawhides as someone else already mentioned. But you need to address this - don't just get rid of the rawhide and ignore the problem since the rawhide isn't there to cause it. Set him up with a desirable item (toy, treat, etc) and start working on "leave it." Put the item on the floor, tell him to LEAVE IT and when he approaches it issue a correction via the collar. Reiterate the leave it command, and begin again.

Only have the collar and drag line on when you are there to supervise for safety reasons.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Elaine said:


> I would also correct the snot out of him until he saw the light, but I know what I'm doing and you don't which means it's just not safe for you do to that. For now, you should take the rawhide away from him and anything else that he doesn't want to let you have. Try and find something he likes to play with with you, like tuggy or fetch, and do that so he figures out that playing with you is a good thing.


Instead of correcting the snot out of a new and confused dog that is merely resource guarding.

I would, instead, teach him to trust you and your new leadership role as not someone who is a taker................ but a someone to be trusted and a giver.

Just come in low with a huge hunk of cheese and when your dog moves to eat the cheese, you can then take the rawhide.

So they learn that you are to be TRUSTED and only mean good when you want what they have in their mouth.

Rather than you are suddenly the SCARIEST THING EVER which never helped build trust in my dog training book.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

More


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

You've gotten great advise in this thread, I just wanted to point out that rawhides and tennis balls aren't particularly good for your dog to chew on. Rawhides can cause blockages if they ingest large chunks; tennis balls are bad for his teeth. Go with bully sticks instead of rawhides and get the balls that are especially made for dogs instead of tennis balls.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

HobNob said:


> Thank you so much, everyone!
> 
> Regarding crating...we actually do not have a crate yet. We adopted him on Saturday and had already ordered a crate on Amazon (2nd day air). It should be here tomorrow (Tuesday). We would NOT have done this had
> Can we "trade" with an object, such as a bone, and treats? As in, when we are ready to try something like a bone to train him that it is ok to let us have it, *could we give him the bone and then trade up for treats*?


So I just read your post  and YOU have a good chance of ending up an EXCELLENT dog trainer! Cause you already see that we can be smart and use our human brains to help with these issues. Rather than just use force and terrify them into compliance. 

Absolutely trade up for treats. Hand feed. Tons of POSITIVE based training so your dog learns that you are wonderful and that people are wonderful. Listening/learning/obeying people is WONDERFUL!


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## smdaigle (Mar 14, 2008)

Emoore said:


> You've gotten great advise in this thread, I just wanted to point out that rawhides and tennis balls aren't particularly good for your dog to chew on. Rawhides can cause blockages if they ingest large chunks; tennis balls are bad for his teeth. Go with bully sticks instead of rawhides and get the balls that are especially made for dogs instead of tennis balls.


Why are tennis balls bad for teeth? I've never heard this before.

Thanks!


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## lizzyjo (Jan 6, 2011)

I read the article about trading...that makes so much sense to me. A real good idea for when my new puppy gets here. Thanks so much for this forum...by the way ...could i use this "trade" for training the pup to drop and leave stuff he might pick up out side.???


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

smdaigle said:


> Why are tennis balls bad for teeth? I've never heard this before.
> 
> Thanks!


The glue erodes tooth enamel. Also tennis balls can get caught in the throat or windpipe. 

Personally I will only use balls that are bigger than a tennis ball and made for dogs out of rubber or some other safe material.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Since you are apprehensive and admit you aren't that dog savvy, I agree with the posters who have said DO NOT correct the snot out of him or you may get a nice bite out of it.
> 
> A rawhide, or raw bone, is most likely viewed as high value to him and he's going to defend it. For now, keep those types of things away from him.
> 
> ...


I consider this to be excellent advice.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

lizzyjo said:


> I read the article about trading...that makes so much sense to me. A real good idea for when my new puppy gets here. Thanks so much for this forum...by the way ...could i use this "trade" for training the pup to drop and leave stuff he might pick up out side.???


Absolutely! 

Training doesn't have to be this big huge power play of 'YOU MUST OBEY OR IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD'. It's the end behavior we want. So if I just want my dog to drop something, and by offering something else, they drop it. The I DID 'win'. 

A better win for me cause my dog wanted to listen and obey and do what I wanted. Didn't do it from fear, but just cause they learn to WANT to do what I'm asking.


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## smdaigle (Mar 14, 2008)

Emoore said:


> The glue erodes tooth enamel. Also tennis balls can get caught in the throat or windpipe.
> 
> Personally I will only use balls that are bigger than a tennis ball and made for dogs out of rubber or some other safe material.


Thanks, our dogs don't normally "chew" the tennis ball but our female always carries one around.


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

Question, when people say things like "correct the snot out of him"...what does that even mean? Using an e-collar? jerking on a choke chain? hitting or kicking the dog?

We only use positive training with our dogs, but when we took home Osa and had questions, her previous owner kept saying "I absolutely don't tolerate _____ and she knows it" or "she would never get away with that without a correction," and we didn't know what she was referring to and felt stupid asking.
In our world, a correction is a "uh-uh" and removing stimulus from dog or dog from stimulus without force. 

To the OP, we were advised not to introduce high-value items like raw bones until our rescue had gotten comfortable in our house. After a week, she had already started to trust that we were predictable and safe and would let us take away bones, toys, etc from her- but she always got a SUPER YUMMY treat when we did. Now when we say "drop it!" she does it lightning fast because she's wondering when the cube of aged cheddar or hot dog bit will be arriving


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Emoore said:


> The glue erodes tooth enamel. Also tennis balls can get caught in the throat or windpipe.
> 
> Personally I will only use balls that are bigger than a tennis ball and made for dogs out of rubber or some other safe material.


Do you know if that applies to the tennis-ball-style Kong squeaky balls as well?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

paulag1955 said:


> Do you know if that applies to the tennis-ball-style Kong squeaky balls as well?


Nope, those are made specifically for dogs and are safe to use.

People are probably tired of hearing this, but I lost my best friend five months ago when he inhaled a tennis-ball sized Kong ball. He was breathing heavily during a game of fetch, the ball went down his windpipe, and he was dead before we could get him to the vet's office. 

Since then I always use and recommend BIG balls that they can't get into the back of their mouth.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm glad your getting a crate in case you need it, sounds like he may not 'need' it, but I would still set it up and try getting him used to it should the time come when he needs to be crated

He sounds like he's going to be a good dog and hasn't had the best life previously. 

If he's not 'into' peanut butter,,try cheese, or I do go thru alot of bully sticks I just bought a couple of hard bone type things (forget the name) with chewie type things you can buy separately and attach to them, supposed to keep them busy we'll see. 

Once he's there a couple weeks, I think you'll both be better settled to see what works for him.

I have a male aussie who sounds and looks like he's going to tear your arm off, if he has a bone/chewie. He'll guard it with his life. He's 10 years old, and has ALWAYS been this way...I can very easily trade with him. I can also very easily just reach down and take whatever he has away from him...I CAN DO IT, but I doubt he'd go along with anyone else doing it. So we 'manage' him..He gets high value stuff IN his crate, the other dogs know to stay away from him, tho he's never followed thru with his big mouth tactics with me anyhow, it may be a bluff with mine. But with a dog you really don't know, I would never take the chance


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow, this has been so helpful! I feel very reassured that Duke's behavior was normal and we will be ok after he has time to learn to trust us. We will just wait until he is more comfortable in our home before reintroducing any high value toys. I'm looking forward to playing the trading game and teaching him to happily give up his toys when we ask him to.  I know I will feel more bonded to him once I feel as though we have actually taught him some things and he is comfortable with us.

I am going to watch all of the videos that were so kindly posted tonight with my husband. I'll be back with questions I'm sure.  

Guess I should formally introduce Duke on the pictures thread, huh?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

of course! We need to see who we are talking about)


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

> *Or you might be the one laid up for days getting over abusing your dog*.


I doubt it. 



> Or you might be the one laid up for days getting over abusingyour dog. *Taking that attitude can cause HUGE problems.* How do I know? I have fostered dogs who were beaten and became fear aggressive because of it. In fact, I adopted one and it took years to get him to the point where he was safe around people. I could say a lot more but I'll just leave it at the ultimate goal with your dog should be to establish yourself as a calm, consistent and fair pack leader. You want your dog to trust and respect you and never to fear you. Fear brings out the worst in a dog.


I do believe that I stated to the OP that I *wasn't* advising her to do this. Only enlightening her as to what *I* would do if it were *my* dog baring his teeth at me.



> Or you might be the one laid up for days getting over *abusing* your dog. Taking that attitude can cause HUGE problems. How do I know? I have fostered dogs who were *beaten* and became fear aggressive because of it. In fact, I adopted one and it took years to get him to the point where he was safe around people. I could say a lot more but I'll just leave it at the ultimate goal with your dog should be to establish yourself as a calm, consistent and fair pack leader. You want your dog to trust and respect you and never to fear you. Fear brings out the worst in a dog.


Bowwowmeow, you seem to be under the impression that I beat/abuse my dog. You couldn't be further from the truth. I've never laid a hand on my dog in anger, but then again, he's never bared his teeth at me either. If he ever were to threaten me in that manner, it would be immediately followed by a correction that he would not forget. I do however agree with pretty much everything else you said in your post. 

Elaine, WOW, by sharing my opinion, you brought down the wrath upon yourself. I hope your reputation isn't tarnished. Teach you to agree with someone with only a double digit post count.


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

Someone here recommended we start hand feeding NOW. However, in one of the above videos ("Helping my dog overcome food aggression") the trainer said he waited s few days and let the dog eat several times without getting involved in the process.

Duke has only eaten 2 or 3 meals since we brough him home on Saturday. When he eats he sort of watches to see where we are...as if he is making sure we are still around. My husband has pet him a few times while he is eating and Duke did not growl. He doesn't seem to mind us being nearby while he eats. His foster parents were able to reach down near and into his bowl while he ate and Duke would just manuever around them and not get upset.

Should we start hand feeding right away or should we let a few more days go by to let him get used to eating in his new home?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Here's a recent thread with tips about "food aggression" (which is usually resource guarding) http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/feeding-our-puppy/147739-any-way-prevent-food-aggression.html

There's a little video on there of a game that Halo made up. I did so many trading games with her when she was a puppy that she has a strong foundation of being rewarded for bringing me stuff, and she now likes to bring us her bones to hold for her while she chews them. You can see the trust she has in me, that I won't take her bone away and not give it back. There's also a great video on that thread about teaching impulse control around food that involves hand feeding.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

RazinKain post count has nothing to do with how good advise is or isn't- putting your hands on your dog in an unloving manner is not appropriate ever. Your dog who you have raised for some time probably would never bare his teeth at you because he trusts you and knows you are not a threat to his beloved things. You have already established leadership through training, walking, feeding, petting, and just being his caretaker. Leadership isn't gained through corrections, but fear is


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

Duke allowed my husband to take his ball (I bought a larger one) from him last night but continued resource guarding with me.  So frustrating. He is bonding with hubby more so than me. I know training will help with this, but it is really frustrating for an impatient person such as myself. Maybe I am worrying too much about something that is easily fixable...? He respects my husband's authority more than mine.

I am wondering if, for the time being, I should be the only one to give him treats. Opinions?

I want to start the "trading up" but I am worried I will do it wrong or make the problem worse. When he has his object in his mouth, I let him smell the treat in my hand and say "drop it" and then give him the treat when he drops the object and then give him the object back after he eats the treat, right? What if it doesn't eactly happen in that order...like if he drops the object as soon as he smells the treat before I have a chance to say "drop it"? Will he still make the association? Am I being too analytical with this? I tend to do that.  Also, I have a feeling he won't care about taking the object back if he can still smell treats. If this is the case, should that be the end of the "trading up" training session, and then go back later to do it again?

What do you think about when Duke has an object and lets my husband take it from him and my husband gives it to ME and I am the one to give it back to Duke?

Thanks in advance!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

HobNob said:


> I want to start the "trading up" but I am worried I will do it wrong or make the problem worse. When he has his object in his mouth, I let him smell the treat in my hand and say "drop it" and then give him the treat when he drops the object and then give him the object back after he eats the treat, right? What if it doesn't eactly happen in that order...like if he drops the object as soon as he smells the treat before I have a chance to say "drop it"? Will he still make the association? Am I being too analytical with this? I tend to do that.  Also, I have a feeling he won't care about taking the object back if he can still smell treats. If this is the case, should that be the end of the "trading up" training session, and then go back later to do it again?


Did you read the thread I linked to? At this point I wouldn't even worry about teaching a "drop it" command. I start by holding a toy (or a low value bone, like a Nylabone) and I _don't let go_. I continue to hold one end while the dog chews or tugs the other end, and then I hold a treat right up to the nose, mark it "yes!" when they drop what they have to take the treat, and then I offer whatever I'm holding back to the dog and we do it all over again. We play the game for awhile, and then when I'm done I simply don't give the toy/bone back again - put it away so you continue to "own" it. Praise him for being such a good boy! Do this over and over again. Trade a variety of toys for other toys. 

Will he retrieve a ball? Have him bring it back and trade it for a tuggy (hold the other end and play for a minute). Have him give up the tuggy for a treat, and then throw the ball for him again, etc. Don't give him anything too high value at this point, and don't make a practice of trying to take things away yet - be the person who GIVES him things instead. If he has something in his mouth, encourage him to bring it to you for a treat and then give it back to him (assuming it's something he's allowed to have). Be happy and upbeat while you're doing this, this isn't a battle of wills, it's a game - lots of happy talk and praise. 

I teach a "give" command too, where I expect them to immediately release whatever they have, but by then my dogs already have a strong foundation of giving me things for a reward. You're starting at the beginning with a dog who is already showing resource guarding behaviors, so proceed more slowly. If he's only interested in the treats, try and find a game he finds fun enough to play with you and work on being more fun in general. Run around and have him chase you if you need to to get him interested in a toy. Toys that move are more interesting than toys that just lay there, so whip it around if you have to.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Did you read the thread I linked to? *At this point I wouldn't even worry about teaching a "drop it" command.* I start by holding a toy (or a low value bone, like a Nylabone) and I _don't let go_. I continue to hold one end while the dog chews or tugs the other end, and then I hold a treat right up to the nose, mark it "yes!" when they drop what they have to take the treat, and then I offer whatever I'm holding back to the dog and we do it all over again. We play the game for awhile, and then when I'm done I simply don't give the toy/bone back again - put it away so you continue to "own" it. Praise him for being such a good boy! Do this over and over again. Trade a variety of toys for other toys.
> 
> Will he retrieve a ball? Have him bring it back and trade it for a tuggy (hold the other end and play for a minute). Have him give up the tuggy for a treat, and then throw the ball for him again, etc. Don't give him anything too high value at this point, and don't make a practice of trying to take things away yet - be the person who GIVES him things instead. If he has something in his mouth, encourage him to bring it to you for a treat and then give it back to him (assuming it's something he's allowed to have). Be happy and upbeat while you're doing this, this isn't a battle of wills, it's a game - lots of happy talk and praise.


I absolutely agree with the above. You don't want to muddy anything with 'commands' and then maybe him disobeying. 

Instead you are merely trying to get his trust and modify his behavior. Teach him there's no reason to get his underwear in a growling knot when you are near. Cause when you are near his 'whatever' chances are you have an even BETTER 'whatever' and let him return to the first thing. So why bother making a big deal out of stuff at all.

Another thing you can do is just plain not feed him from his bowl at all, but keep his kibble in your pockets and anytime he's near either give him a kibble just for being near, or for a quick sit, or looking at you, or just cause. 

He'll learn you are wonderful. Your hands are wonderful. And to trust and allow you near his stuff


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> We play the game for awhile, and then when I'm done I simply don't give the toy/bone back again - put it away so you continue to "own" it.


Will the dog not see this as "stealing" since you took something from him and didn't give it back? One of the articles linked in someone's response talked about stealing and how you want the dog to understand that when he gives something to you you aren't stealing it and he will get it back. Did I misunderstand?

You asked about him retrieving...we have thrown a ball and a bone out in the yard with him. Sometimes he ignores it (because he's constantly sniffing in the yard instead of playing) and sometimes he will run an get it, but he may not bring it back. In the house we can roll a ball and he will go get it and come back when called. But he keeps the object in his mouth. 

Ok, right now, ALL we have for Duke is a large tennis ball and a rawhide bone -- but we put the rawhide bone away and don't plan to reintroduce it until he is doing better with the resource guarding issue. His fosters talked about how he didn't show a lot of interest in toys, so we haven't gone out and bought many because they are pricey and we don't want to spend a bunch of money on things he won't play with. I almost bought a Kong last night, but his fosters put peanut butter in a Kong and said Duke really didn't care much about it. We will probably try something like that sooner or later though. A friend of mine is sending Duke a "welcome home" package and she said she is putting a tugger in it. So when that arrives I will try giving it to him but holding one end of it while he inspects/chews it. 

Thanks again for your suggestions. I hope I'm not being a pain. I'm just new to this and I tend to be a worrier (as if you haven't noticed ). Sometimes I make things more difficult than they really are.


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I absolutely agree with the above. You don't want to muddy anything with 'commands' and then maybe him disobeying.


So do the "trading up" game, but don't use any commands? Just praise him when he releases the object and takes the treat?


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## James (Jan 11, 2011)

Hey Holly, 

I'm very happy that Duke's gone to a home where people obviously care so much for his well-being after the road he's been down to get to you two!

There's a ton of great info here, I had never heard of this site before today ... thanks for the link!


Best,
James 
aka Duke's foster dad

Attached is a photo of Duke:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

HobNob said:


> Will the dog not see this as "stealing" since you took something from him and didn't give it back? One of the articles linked in someone's response talked about stealing and how you want the dog to understand that when he gives something to you you aren't stealing it and he will get it back. Did I misunderstand?


Well, if you're doing trading with things that you continue to hold onto while he's playing with them (tug type toy) or chewing (nylabone or similar), it's not the same as if he's laying on the floor happily going to town on "his" whatever and you walk up and take it away from him. You're playing a game together, letting him use something of yours (since everything is yours), and then at the end of the game you simply keep it and put it away until next time. 

Exercises like this I might do for a few minutes several times a day. Eventually all dogs will end up with something they're not supposed to have (Halo stole a large knife off the kitchen counter several times before we learned that it wasn't just food that we couldn't leave laying around!) and you WILL have to just take it away, but if you do a lot of trading games you'll have established a foundation of trust so it won't be a big deal if he can't always get back what he's given up to you freely. If you watched the video of Halo, she'll just walk over with a bone in her mouth and wait for one of us to grab onto it. She'll stand or sit there, chewing away. All I have to do is ask her "can I have that?" and she lets go of the bone and waits with eye contact until I tell her "okay" or "take it" and give it back to her. 

This did not happen overnight, I'd been doing tons of work with trading, with rewarding eye contact (like MRL says, where you reward him for anything he does that you like, uncued), with impulse control around food (wait in a sit or down with the food bowl on the floor until released to eat) and higher value stuff like bully sticks, (sit or down with eye contact while I hold it near their heads and even wave my arms around), and hand feeding (did you watch the "It's Yer Choice" video?). All good things come from me, at my discretion.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

HobNob said:


> I hope I'm not being a pain. I'm just new to this and I tend to be a worrier (as if you haven't noticed ). Sometimes I make things more difficult than they really are.


I am a worrier and an over-analyzer too, so I know where you're coming from. This is a brand new relationship, and I think you're doing fine. Just be patient and keep working with him and building trust.


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

James said:


> Hey Holly,
> 
> I'm very happy that Duke's gone to a home where people obviously care so much for his well-being after the road he's been down to get to you two!
> 
> ...


James, 
Glad to see you joined the forum. 

For those of you who have been giving me advice about Duke, James was Duke's foster dad.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Hey wait a minute, was Duke an AGSDR dog? James, are you an AGSDR foster? I think we may all know each other.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Don't worry about Duke bonding more with hubby...he'll still love you Men have deeper voices, are usually bigger, and naturally give off more authoritative body language. I would start to walk Duke alone, train alone, and hand feed him his meals twice a day to show him you are his leader as well. Your hubby can train him too, but get some one on one with him so he sees you as equal


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## James (Jan 11, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Hey wait a minute, was Duke an AGSDR dog? James, are you an AGSDR foster? I think we may all know each other.



Yep...if I'm not mistaken we met you in Dallas when we were up there to run the Warrior Dash race to get Jace so he could be fixed in Austin. Small world, huh?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

James said:


> Yep...if I'm not mistaken we met you in Dallas when we were up there to run the Warrior Dash race to get Jace so he could be fixed in Austin. Small world, huh?


Yup, small world.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

HobNob said:


> So do the "trading up" game, but don't use any commands? Just praise him when he releases the object and takes the treat?


That's what I would do. I'd initially work on this as a behavior and trust thing. Later on when he's starts offering the behavior and doing it naturally, THEN I'd add the word and the training.



> Will the dog not see this as "stealing" since you took something from him and didn't give it back? One of the articles linked in someone's response talked about stealing and how you want the dog to understand that when he gives something to you you aren't stealing it and he will get it back. Did I misunderstand?


What I do is play with my dog and 'take' things then give them back. Take it, play with it with the dog, give it back. Then maybe take it the last time (play time is over) and go get a treat for the pup while I'm putting the 'whatever' away. You can trade toy for toy. Or toy for a treat. It's about that you are a GIVER as much as someone who may take. And, most of the time, you are giving way better than you are taking. This is all initially. 

Over time, you dog will learn to trust you and the training will have begun so your role as a leader will come into play so stuff will happen more naturally.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Not to turn away from the OP discussion, but I have sort of this problem with my 4 yr old Golden Retrvr. rescue dog I have had since she was a pup. She viciously guards the water bowl, toys, empty food bowls even a dead bug on the floor.
She bares teeth, snarling etc, but not at me, at the other dogs. Yes, she even has bitten the other dogs. It has gotten progressively worse.
We have removed toys, she has always eaten in her crate, we correct her quickly by putting her in "time out" or she will continue to follow the dogs around growling like a bully. I used NILIF with the GSD a long time ago, would this work with her issue?
She is completely different, less tense, when the other dogs are not in the house.
Any suggestions? we are kind of thinking of re-homing her if she is stressed here


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

We decided to put Duke's food up and try hand feeding him. Right now he has no interest. He had not yet gotten to the point where he was eating regularly...I think in the 3 full days we have had him he only ate a meal once each day. Perhaps as he gets more comfortable he will want his food more? I don't want to starve him. Do you think he'll get hungry enough to start taking the food from our hands? 

I think I'm going to go buy some hot dogs and cheese after work and start working on trading games with him. Might need to buy a nylabone or something he will be interested in so he'll play along. Sometimes he just flat out doesn't care about his ball. Nylabones are not high value like rawhide bones, right? And when I open the package and introduce the bone to him, I plan on holding the other end of it and not letting him take it.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

krystyne73 said:


> Not to turn away from the OP discussion, but I have sort of this problem with my 4 yr old Golden Retrvr. rescue dog I have had since she was a pup. She viciously guards the water bowl, toys, empty food bowls even a dead bug on the floor.
> She bares teeth, snarling etc, but not at me, at the other dogs. Yes, she even has bitten the other dogs. It has gotten progressively worse.
> We have removed toys, she has always eaten in her crate, we correct her quickly by putting her in "time out" or she will continue to follow the dogs around growling like a bully. I used NILIF with the GSD a long time ago, would this work with her issue?
> She is completely different, less tense, when the other dogs are not in the house.
> Any suggestions? we are kind of thinking of re-homing her if she is stressed here


 
krystyne73, I bet you'll get more help/responses if you open a new topic so that way people can give specific help for you. NILIF would probably help, but I'd also work generally on your leadership role in the house and outside the home. ALL our dogs like thing crystal clear as far as their role, and it's sounds a bit muddy to me with all the growling.

I do NOT see this a you having to come down like a load of bricks. There are tons of calm quiet leadership roles that dogs understand (and we don't know until we learn them). Huge help to me was Jan Fennell's book The Dog Listener dog behaviour, dog obedience, dog trainers, puppy training, dog rescue assistance, canine behaviour, canine obedience by Jan Fennell the Dog Listener Amichien Bonding 








Amazon.com: The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation (9780060089467): Jan Fennell: Books








[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FDog-Listener-Communicate-Willing-Cooperation%2Fdp%2F0060089466&tag=5336432754-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294849995&sr=1-1"]







[/ame]

Also Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas, but you want the DVD NOT just the book. She shows all the calm little quiet signs our dogs give and we can give over and over. Many of the dogs are GSD's which is a huge help.

















Amazon.com: Calming Signals: What Your Dog Tells You: Turid Rugaas: Movies & TV

And a good set of group dog classes can really help give us the skills needed for our dogs to start trusting and looking to us for guidance.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks!
I posted it! and Yes, I am thinking it is my poor leadership too. I've gotten lazy with that. ugh I'll check out those books, I am looking for more info!


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

Success! Duke ate his dinner out of my hand tonight (and some out of hubby's)! :happyboogie:

Also, we are trying to teach him that he doesn't belong in the kitchen while food is being prepared or eaten. In the past 24 hours, I'm pretty sure he has learned "stay." We bring him to his "spot" right outside of the kitchen and get him to sit (he already knew that one) and then lay down (he learned that one in less than a day with us too!). Once he lays down we say "stay" and slowly back up. He picked it up pretty quickly. We treat him after he stays for some time. Sometimes while we are eating or cooking he gets up and comes out to sniff and look for food, but we just take him back to his spot and do the same thing again. Tonight he stayed for at least 5 minutes without getting up. Yay! He's a quick learner when treats are involved. 

In just a little bit I'm going to introduce him to his new Nylabone and try some trading games. Wish me luck!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Welcome to you HobNob and James. I'm glad you found this place...you can see who has given such great advice and some that is just to be thought of, and dismissed!
Emoore, I am so sorry that is what happened to Cash. I never knew why, and was afraid to ask. How devastating. I cannot imagine and balls/size are always in my thoughts because my dogs drives for them are extreme. I love the cuz balls because those feet are saviors!
Good update on Duke, I hope things just progress from here on!  Once you get into a training class Duke will bond with you so much more.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

HobNob said:


> Success! Duke ate his dinner out of my hand tonight (and some out of hubby's)! :happyboogie:
> 
> Also, we are trying to teach him that he doesn't belong in the kitchen while food is being prepared or eaten. In the past 24 hours, I'm pretty sure he has learned "stay." We bring him to his "spot" right outside of the kitchen and get him to sit (he already knew that one) and then lay down (he learned that one in less than a day with us too!). Once he lays down we say "stay" and slowly back up. He picked it up pretty quickly. We treat him after he stays for some time. Sometimes while we are eating or cooking he gets up and comes out to sniff and look for food, but we just take him back to his spot and do the same thing again. Tonight he stayed for at least 5 minutes without getting up. Yay! He's a quick learner when treats are involved.
> 
> In just a little bit I'm going to introduce him to his new Nylabone and try some trading games. Wish me luck!


Perfect!


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

So, I just introduced him to the Nylabone. He really liked it. He tried several times to pull it away from me, but I didn't let him. The hot dog trade was a little difficult because I had to get it in my hand without him knowing it was there. My husband helped me...while Duke was chewing on his end of the bone, my husband went in the kitchen to get some hot dog chunks. But Duke followed him out to the kitchen to see what was going on. It took a few minutes to get him to forget about the treats and start in on the bone again. But he did, and after several seconds of chewing on his end I let him smell the hot dog and when he released the bone I gave him the treat and praised him. Again, it took him a bit to get back to the bone because he was SO preoccupied with tracking the scent of those hot dog treats. But I did 4 cycles of him chewing his end of the bone for several seconds and then letting him smell the treat and giving it to him after he released the bone. Each time I praised him. Afterward I put the bone away. I never let him have it without me holding one end of it.

Does it sound like I did it right? 

Will he start to associate the bone with treats? Would it be best to alternate the toys I use for the trading games?


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Yay that is sweet success right there and yes you did it right,lol He will associate you taking and touching what is in his mouth with a treat and trust you no matter what toy and treat you are using if you keep it up. He needs to understand you control the toys and treats in the house but will be fair and are not a threat to his stuff. No growling is huge and the fact that he was receptive to the treat even when it meant relinquishing the toy is huge


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

So how long would you all advise I play the trading games with him before I start to give the "drop it" command before/with the treat?

And how long should I/we hand feed him his meals?


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## HobNob (Jan 10, 2011)

Question about toys:

Since we are working on the resource guarding, we are sticking to lower value toys for now (tug rope, large tennis ball, Nylabone). The only toy that is out all the time and free for him to play with at any time is the large tennis ball. He really doesn't play much with it. Sometimes he'll play with it if we get his attention on it and he's feeling playful. I was wondering if we should get another toy or two -- low value such as a squeaky chew toy -- to leave laying around the house for him to play with freely. He just seems bored a lot. Would this re-invite the resource guarding? After reading everyone's responses above, I was sort of under the impression that to keep the resource guarding in check WE should be the ones to say when playtime is over and we should put the toys up after playing with him. But should he also have a couple of his own at his disposal?


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