# Opinions on these breeders?



## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

I have been thinking of getting a shepherd from one of these breeders later on, but decided it may be best to ask for opinions here first.

RoyalAir: Breeding Oversized, Large German Shepherds. big dogs in the mid-west family.
Von Lotta: German Shepherd puppies for sale | German Shepherd breeders | Imported German Shepherd Puppies| German Shepherd Kennels
Kingdom Shepherds: Welcome to KingdomShepherds.com

Also, are there any other reputable breeders in the southeast us? It will be a couple years most likely before I actually buy (if I don't just get a rescue or open one) but I decided it would be best to search now so that I can get to know the breeders and their dogs. 
I love German working lines and very large shepherds. I would also love to do any sport the pup would excel in.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

No experience with any of the three but they are all very different lines/type. Is there a certain type you prefer? None of these are working lines. I think the Royalaire dogs are your best bet if you want large, but large is probably not what you want if you're seriously interested in sports. Not that they can't do it, but some sports are just too stressful (on a dog's joints) when the dog is large.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Liesje said:


> No experience with any of the three but they are all very different lines/type. Is there a certain type you prefer? None of these are working lines. I think the Royalaire dogs are your best bet if you want large, but large is probably not what you want if you're seriously interested in sports. Not that they can't do it, but some sports are just too stressful (on a dog's joints) when the dog is large.


I know, the three I posted were just the three biggest in my state xD I would really like working lines from Czech or German lines. I love huge dogs, over a hundred lbs. If it is smaller but can compete in a sport with me that would be ok, too. My biggest thing is finding a good guard and companion.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If you love "huge dogs over 100#" then maybe another breed would be better, or a King/Shiloh? GSD's are not a large breed dog, but medium and 90# is over the max for weight if you want to stay within the standard. 
Bigger isn't better when it comes to agile/speed and athleticism. 
I wouldn't limit yourself to breeders in your area,either.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Of those 3, only the second one is what I (and most who are passionate about the breed)would consider a reputable breeder. I have a dog training club outside Atlanta and have had dogs from all three places here. 
If you are looking for West German Showline dogs, then go with Von Lotta. She has nice dogs and I have had at least 4-5 of hers here over the last few years. 
None of the kennels you listed are working lines. Also, you will not see TRUE working line dogs anywhere near 100lbs! The German Shepherd is a MEDIUM sized breed. 
You need to do a bit more research and narrow your parameters a bit. Decide what you like and want to do with the dog and then post that here and people can steer you in the direction of breeders. 
I am in Georgia and we have bought the last 4-5 GSDs out of state. 

Here are a couple of links to get you started on some research.

(Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )

How to tell a good breeder website from a bad one | | Ruffly Speaking: Dog photography and general dog nuttiness of all kinds. Kind of like Nutella.Ruffly Speaking: Dog photography and general dog nuttiness of all kinds. Kind of like Nutella.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110511203152/http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html

Here's where we got our most recent dogs,

Hillview Kennels - German Shepherd Breeders


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Onyx- I know shepherds aren't supposed to exceed ninety lbs but I was looking at some oversized ones (since I don't really plan to breed or show). 
Bocron, thanks for the links and opinion!  
There are technically two things I'm interested in. One is an oversized shepherd (which I may look at King shepherds instead, just haven't had much luck finding any) for companionship and guarding. The other is a more average sized working line Shep who could do herding and/or SchH 

Sorry I'm not incredibly good at explaining what I like/want :/


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

It isn't about you 'breeding or showing', but who _you are supporting_ when buying from breeders who go against the GSD standard and breed for the oversized.
I don't want to start another war on this, but really, if you want a large dog/protector, then look into another breed or rescue one that is already over the standard. 
Don't support the breeder who is marketing 110# GSDs, JMO.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> It isn't about you 'breeding or showing', but who _you are supporting_ when buying from breeders who go against the GSD standard and breed for the oversized.
> I don't want to start another war on this, but really, if you want a large dog/protector, then look into another breed or rescue one that is already over the standard.
> Don't support the breeder who is marketing 110# GSDs, JMO.


I never thought to look at it that way but you have a valid point. I'm sorry I'm not exactly the most educated person. I still have a lot to learn...


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Look through past threads here on the board you will come across a lot of thread on the "standerd sized vs. oversized" debate.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Look through past threads here on the board you will come across a lot of thread on the "standerd sized vs. oversized" debate.


I don't think I will be getting an oversized unless from a rescue. If for no reason but to keep away from drama and lectures. 
My biggest thing is so find a reputable breeder in the southeast us (doesn't have to be in my state) so that I can visit and get to know the breeder and their dogs over the next few years until I actually buy. I love the oversized because they're still shepherds but are also huge, which makes me feel safer than a 55 lb Shep would. But overall I would just like to find a good German/Czech working line breeder whose dogs have good temperaments and would excel as protection (and possibly herding) dogs.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You should be able to find a great WL breeder and most of them have dogs that fit the criteria of temperament/etc....just not the big request!
Bocron may be of help, as she is local to you.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> You should be able to find a great WL breeder and most of them have dogs that fit the criteria of temperament/etc....just not the big request!
> Bocron may be of help, as she is local to you.


Ya Bocron suggested Wildhaus and VonLotta. I'm going to be checking into both. VonLotta has some nice dogs for show, there is actually a puppy there now who I am oggling at xD But Wildhaus also has gorgeous dogs  Both are close enough for me to visit them a few times as well. Big plus!


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## Narny (Sep 8, 2010)

I too looked into the large breed dogs from those breeders. I really didnt like the look of them (kind of shallow I know) but I thought they were kind of ugly so I moved on from them. Trust me when I say that I understand loving big dogs. I have had St. Bernards and Great Danes too. They can be really impressive.

Have you been around many shepherds? The reason I ask is because they are not small dogs. I had a pit bull as a kid that didnt stand taller than my knees but shepherds are a lot taller than a pit bull. 

While the lbs may be less than some of these other dogs I have seen shepherds that are only 60 lbs but are HUGE at least to me they are. Maybe its the fur that makes them look bigger IDK. I was just curious what your experience with gsd's was.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Sequoyah German Shepherds check out this one


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Narny said:


> I too looked into the large breed dogs from those breeders. I really didnt like the look of them (kind of shallow I know) but I thought they were kind of ugly so I moved on from them. Trust me when I say that I understand loving big dogs. I have had St. Bernards and Great Danes too. They can be really impressive.
> 
> Have you been around many shepherds? The reason I ask is because they are not small dogs. I had a pit bull as a kid that didnt stand taller than my knees but shepherds are a lot taller than a pit bull.
> 
> While the lbs may be less than some of these other dogs I have seen shepherds that are only 60 lbs but are HUGE at least to me they are. Maybe its the fur that makes them look bigger IDK. I was just curious what your experience with gsd's was.


I had a one hundred lb male working line shepherd as a small child (Cheeko) who was a police academy washout (too aggressive). At the same time I had a male wolf/German shepherd (Dronimoe) who was 125 lbs. After they both passed I got Kiba (85 lb retired police dog). He was 13 when I got him and passed a week later in his sleep. I believe of a broken heart. Now I currently have Dakoda (unsure of weight but her growth was stunted at six months). Also, my uncle used to breed black shepherds as a hobby and as surrogate mothers for the wolf pups on his reserve. He has heart problems now so he does neither but still xD
I also have a friend who owns an American showline shepherd named Nick (90 lbs), a friend who owns a German working line shep named Valiant (87 lbs), a friend who has an 80 lb female American showline named Lexi, a buddy who owns a one yr old pure black long-haired German working line named Jagar (already 79 lbs) and have a few acquaintances who own shepherds and have playdates with Koda and me.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Why is weight so important to you? I'd rather look at the structure and muscletone along with the movement of the dog, not how much the dog weighs.
FWIW, I have two that weigh 90# so I understand why larger isn't better with this breed. My dogs are not overweight whatsoever.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> Why is weight so important to you? I'd rather look at the structure and muscletone along with the movement of the dog, not how much the dog weighs.
> FWIW, I have two that weigh 90# so I understand why larger isn't better with this breed. My dogs are not overweight whatsoever.


I don't have measurements on their height so my best way of interpreting size is through weight. If it offends you, sorry. That's just how I describe their size. All but Lexi, who is of American showline, were/are built leanly and had very nice muscletone. Koda is a very lean little monster, but is well-muscled and only comes a little above my knees.

But again I'm going to say: I DO NOT PLAN ON BUYING AN OVERSIZED SHEPHERD.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> I never thought to look at it that way but you have a valid point. I'm sorry I'm not exactly the most educated person. I still have a lot to learn...


Most of us do  Everyday I learn something new!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> I love the oversized because they're still shepherds but are also huge, which makes me feel safer than a 55 lb Shep would.


Just because a dog is bigger doesn't mean he's more likely to protect you. In fact, breeders of oversized GSD do not generally participate in sports like SchH, which would show you drive and nerve for protection. Bigger dogs might look intimidating, which is a good deterrent, but believe me--I've seen 65 pound GSDs that I'd feel VERY safe walking down a dark alley with. If you're really worried about security, I'd rather see you with a 65 pound dog who will actually defend you from a threat, rather than a 100+ pound dog that will run away screaming. 

If you purchase from a reputable breeder who has dogs with some protective instinct, and the nerve to actually protect, your chances are a lot better. Since "oversized" GSD breeders don't seem to breed for working temperament, you're more likely to get a big, scary-looking dog that will turn tail in the event of a true threat. I've actually seen this happen.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog!


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Freestep said:


> Just because a dog is bigger doesn't mean he's more likely to protect you. In fact, breeders of oversized GSD do not generally participate in sports like SchH, which would show you drive and nerve for protection. Bigger dogs might look intimidating, which is a good deterrent, but believe me--I've seen 65 pound GSDs that I'd feel VERY safe walking down a dark alley with. If you're really worried about security, I'd rather see you with a 65 pound dog who will actually defend you from a threat, rather than a 100+ pound dog that will run away screaming.
> 
> If you purchase from a reputable breeder who has dogs with some protective instinct, and the nerve to actually protect, your chances are a lot better. Since "oversized" GSD breeders don't seem to breed for working temperament, you're more likely to get a big, scary-looking dog that will turn tail in the event of a true threat. I've actually seen this happen.
> 
> It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog!


Thanks for the opinion and knowledge lol. But I've already posted that I will not be buying an oversized multiple times since saying that


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Ya Bocron suggested Wildhaus and VonLotta. I'm going to be checking into both. VonLotta has some nice dogs for show, there is actually a puppy there now who I am oggling at xD But Wildhaus also has gorgeous dogs  Both are close enough for me to visit them a few times as well. Big plus!


Actually I suggested Von Lotta and Hillview. I would absolutely say Wildhaus is one to check out(the upcoming M litter has me intrigued ), but I think they are in Michigan. But shipping has never been a deterrent for me. 
I totally get the need to meet the breeder and hopefully the parents of any pup you hope to have join your family. So if you can find breeders within a reasonable distance then that is the way to go. 
Don't be in a hurry and you will find the pup that will fill your needs.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

bocron said:


> Actually I suggested Von Lotta and Hillview. I would absolutely say Wildhaus is one to check out(the upcoming M litter has me intrigued ), but I think they are in Michigan. But shipping has never been a deterrent for me.
> I totally get the need to meet the breeder and hopefully the parents of any pup you hope to have join your family. So if you can find breeders within a reasonable distance then that is the way to go.
> Don't be in a hurry and you will find the pup that will fill your needs.


My mistake  That's why I asked this early, though. I figure if I have about three years to really get to know a breeder and their dogs that I will also have time to find exactly what I'm looking for


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> I don't think I will be getting an oversized unless from a rescue. If for no reason but to keep away from drama and lectures.
> My biggest thing is so find a reputable breeder in the southeast us (doesn't have to be in my state) so that I can visit and get to know the breeder and their dogs over the next few years until I actually buy. I love the oversized because they're still shepherds but are also huge, which makes me feel safer than a 55 lb Shep would. But overall I would just like to find a good German/Czech working line breeder whose dogs have good temperaments and would excel as protection (and possibly herding) dogs.


I think you need to research the lines a bit more. A Czech GSD is not for everyone. Also Showline GSDs can do pretty good job as well. My 56lb female GSD(Pet line) is a pretty good deterrent and usually doesn't bark unless its sincere. Also size doesn't mean anything. Most of the time the mere fact that you have a GSD will scare some people. I was sitting outside my brother's elementary school when Molly was 6 months old and people litereally would cross the street and then cross back over to avoid Molly. She was only 6 months old at the time!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Also if you still are set on getting a rather "large" GSD. Some reputable breeders, even when they are not breeding for it, tend to get puppies on the larger end of the scale.

When you say protection do you mean you are planning on getting into Sch or PPD?


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I think you need to research the lines a bit more. A Czech GSD is not for everyone. Also Showline GSDs can do pretty good job as well. My 56lb female GSD(Pet line) is a pretty good deterrent and usually doesn't bark unless its sincere. Also size doesn't mean anything. Most of the time the mere fact that you have a GSD will scare some people. I was sitting outside my brother's elementary school when Molly was 6 months old and people litereally would cross the street and then cross back over to avoid Molly. She was only 6 months old at the time!


I understand they aren't for everyone and I know better than to just leap into a dog. I have also already said that if it's a good shepherd that I don't care about the size. I asked FOUR YEARS before I plan on buying. I am doing more research than Koda is probably liking. People do sometimes avoid Koda, but others come right up without hesitation. I prefer working lines because all the shepherds my family and I have owned have been working. It's kind of a trademark.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Also if you still are set on getting a rather "large" GSD. Some reputable breeders, even when they are not breeding for it, tend to get puppies on the larger end of the scale.
> 
> When you say protection do you mean you are planning on getting into Sch or PPD?


I am planning on PPD.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> I am planning on PPD.


It takes a lot of time, dedication, and money. Its a long process. Most people buy dogs already trained in it, but they can get very expensive.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> It takes a lot of time, dedication, and money. Its a long process. Most people buy dogs already trained in it, but they can get very expensive.


I know. But the end result is worth it.  And honestly I can't think of anything else I would like to spend money on more. Right now almost everything I get goes to Koda and keeping her happy/rotten. The rest goes into saving for the future.


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## WestCoastGSD (Jan 7, 2011)

Nadia Adams is in Atlanta, has top quality show lines and she is a kind and honest person who loves her dogs. German Shepherds "von den Oher Tannen" - German Shepherd puppies for sale - German Shepherd Dog breeder - Imported German Shepherd Puppies for sale - Imported adult German Shepherds and puppies available


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

IF you like the oversized, old fashioned GSD there are a couple of very nice breeders in the SE USA (TN & NC_pm me if interested). 

Are you certain of which type of breeder you want to go with? I've had 2 GSD from Royalair & would recommend her to anyone interested in this type. But it's not what everyone wants or needs in a GSD. Determine that before settling on a particular breeder.

IF you're a sports enthusiast you might prefer a smaller line. Royalair GSD are active, vigorous & athletic. They're ideal running, camping, cycling partners but a smaller GSD is preferable for sports such as agility. IF you're interested in pursuing SchH/IPO, you want a pup from SchH titled parents.

Protective? Many people have told me their Royalair GSD is appropriately protective. Mine have proven to be confident, discerning & fearless. HOWEVER, despite living in a high crime urban neighborhood, in over 20 yrs none of my dogs has ever had to 'protect me'. When people tell me their dogs have protected them on numerous occasions I must confess I'm curious as to what actually transpired. Ditto when people extrapolate from SchH activities to RL. I've read of highly trained LE K9s that crumped when things really got ugly. IMO, until you see hard & certain proof, preferably on multiple occasions, you simply don't know.

Inherently more civil dogs will have a naturally higher level of suspicion, possibly lower threshholds. I don't want that. I select GSD I think will have higher threshholds, greater tolerance & less innate suspicion. Additionally, I actively train & socialize for a more trusting, accepting dog. In my circumstances, I think my dogs adapt more easily to the chaotic environment & everyone (including the dogs) will be safer. Others needs/desires will be different. For over 20 yrs people have been terrified of my dogs, including the friendliest & most outgoing! Shoot, I'd tell people they could walk in on Cochise & da Vinci, but nobody believed me. They saw big, active dogs who were frequently engaged in rough play, & they were convinced they were K9 killers. 

Personally, I'd stay away from Kings & Shilohs. I looked into them many years ago & was disappointed. The 'breeds' IMO, are in disarray due to internecine squabbles. They're almost always, for my tastes, excessively soft. They're frequently rife with health & temperament problems. Many tend to be spooky & fearful. Some are spooky, fearful & reactive (UGH).They are-JMO-not a different but similar breed, they are in way too many cases a lesser breed. Size has been achieved, but they've failed (IMO) to achieve any of their other goals. I came to these conclusions after looking into them closely for a couple of yrs & speaking at length with breeders who'd been involved in Shiloh's for many yrs & were at the forefront of the King Shepherd before leaving it as well.

I agree that you want to select a breeder whose goals & program you support. In my experience, Robin at Royalair breeds sound, healthy, long lived GSD with exemplary temperaments. I've found Robin to be forthright, knowledgeable & easy to work with. It's quite possible her type of GSD isn't suited to your needs, but if it is, I think you'll be very satisfied with her & the dogs she produces, as well as similar breeders. Note, that as with any line there are good, bad & indifferent breeders among those breeding over sized GSD. IF this type of GSD suits you, please select your breeder with care, b/c the dogs s/b about much more than simply size.

IF you go with a rescue, be certain the GSD has all that you want & not just size. I initially looked into rescue & there were some big, handsome guys, but none had the temperament &/or health I wanted. People without personal knowledge of these breeders post as though these dogs are readily available from shelters & rescues but it's simply not true. Frankly, it's offensive. WL & SL show up in rescues as well, but if someone is seeking a WL GSD & asks about Bill Kulla it would be utterly bogus as well as counter productive to dredge up every WL in rescue & suggest those would do just as well. Pffft. (IF you go with a WL, Bill Kulla is well worth looking into. He's very high on my list if I ever get a WL GSD. I've heard nothing but GREAT things about him. No exceptions! NONE!)



> If you're really worried about security, I'd rather see you with a 65 pound dog who will actually defend you from a threat, rather than a 100+ pound dog that will run away screaming.


Freestep, objective & experienced info I've read about SchH has only convinced me it's an inadequate test for REAL protection when needed. Other than Simba, my daughter's (long deceased) Toy Poodle, I doubt any of mine would run away screaming. (Shoot, if theDot was involved, Simba would have tried) WHERE do you get this from? Would they be effective? I honestly don't know. How effective? Again, I don't know & very few do, unless their dog had a leg/rib broken but kept on coming. When it gets tough many of us, including our dogs, get tougher. When it gets reallly tough, REAL pain, REAL threats & violence, only some have the heart for it. When it gets Ultimately Tough, very few do. Fortunately, most of us don't need that level of protection. IF I needed protection from mine, the concern would be lack of suspicion rather than cowardice. As noted, I train/socialize away from heightened suspicion. IF I ever need serious PP I'm getting 3 or 4 Anatolians or Kangals.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

There are quite a few breeders in the area not on this forum, or even on a big website.
You may meet them by going out and visiting some clubs. One place to find clubs is here.... United Schutzhund Clubs of America - For the German Shepherd Dog


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

RubyTuesday said:


> IF you like the oversized, old fashioned GSD there are a couple of very nice breeders in the SE USA (TN & NC_pm me if interested).
> 
> polate from SchH activities to RL. I've read of highly trained LE K9s that crumped when things really got ugly. IMO, until you see hard & certain proof, preferably on multiple occasions, you simply don't know.
> 
> Inherently more civil dogs will have a naturally higher level of suspicion, possibly lower threshholds. I don't want that. I select GSD I think will have higher threshholds, greater tolerance & less innate suspicion. als.


Really, how many crumpled as you put it and were they nationally certified with a police k9 org? By the way, the term civil refers to the fact that we train police patrol dogs to engage a human NOT wearing a sleeve. That is what civil means. What you are talking about is defensive. A highly defensive dog is sharp. Not what we use for police work


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Rene, I don’t have statistics. I’m sure that it’s much rarer for nationally certified dogs to crump than others. I imagine the selection process is both rigorous & as good as it can be. My remarks are not intended in any way as a slight on certified K9s, SchH trained dogs or ordinary pets. Not everyone, regardless of how intense the selection process, will prevail when faced with a world gone mad & bad & erupting into relentless chaos, pain & torture. This is as true of dogs as it is of people.

Fortunately, the very worst imaginable situations are rarely encountered by police, soldiers, fire fighters etc. When those situations are encountered some simply aren’t up to it. The combat heroes I’ve met have all been amazed at what they did b/c none of them considered themselves to be especially brave, fearless, tough or even well suited to combat. Many are ordinarily unassuming, quiet, even deferential geek types. 

I was using civil in the sense of dogs that will engage for real rather than as a game or sport, which I think would be the same as not simply looking for a sleeve. Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I’ve gotten the impression that people looking for this quality are also often looking for a more suspicious, less trusting dog & possible one that will react more quickly. Doing risk analysis, the risks faced by working LE & military people are considerably greater than those faced by the general public. This is often also true of those who need PP. So no, I wasn’t talking defensive. Possibly sharp but I’ve seen so many definitions of ‘sharp’ that I’m not certain what you meant by it.

My concerns with people seeking PP dogs are more with the people than the dogs. There are just too many fear biters, human as well as canine. Too many nervous, fearful people who spook at (sometimes shoot at) shadows & see threats EVERYWHERE. Given the inherent sensitivity of dogs, these people can inadvertently, subconsciously, encourage poor judgment, heightened suspicion & reactivity from their dogs, especially if the dog was acquired at a young, impressionable age.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

RubyTuesday said:


> I was using civil in the sense of dogs that will engage for real rather than as a game or sport, which I think would be the same as not simply looking for a sleeve. Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I’ve gotten the impression that people looking for this quality are also often looking for a more suspicious, less trusting dog & possible one that will react more quickly.
> .


Generally, give me a dog with rock solid temperament and prey drive and by training,we put the defense in the dog. We do not look for dogs that are overly sharp/defensive as that is indicative of having weak nerves. A solid patrol dog does not go through life viewing everyone as a threat. We train the dogs to be civil,meaning will engage a human not wearing equipment. We also do a lot of muzzle fighting to teach the dog takedowns. More to it,but that is the short version


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Renee, I absolutely agree & appreciate the clarification. I can't abide nervous, fearful, shaky, spooky types...Canine, feline or human. However, once someone has put 'the defense in the dog' that dog is potentially risky. All too many nervous nellies unintentionally convince their pups the world is a dangerous place that requires pre-emptive 'defense'. Pups raised in this environment, even solid pups, can quickly become a risk to themselves & all around them.

I'm not opposed to guns. I'm not opposed to PP dogs. I am opposed to poorly prepared fearful idjits blindly acquiring either with nary a clue as to responsible stewardship or any deep understanding of what risks most of us actually face. 

Two K9 officers asked me about Sam's temperament. They went from looking dubious to beaming. Was she protective? I honestly dunno. She was very alert. She showed restraint & good judgment. IF protective, then how protective? Again, I dunno. (Despite being a baaad neighborhood my dogs have never had to protect me). She was confident, discerning, slow to rile, trustworthy with people, other dogs & pets and especially tolerant of small dogs & children. Frankly, she didn't much like other people. Nor did she dislike them. Her devotion was centered on family & close friends but she had a benign tolerance of others.

Watching the officers I knew their concerns & verified it with some additional discussion. They were worried I acquired a fearful, anxious nerve bag that I mistakenly wanted to be 'super protective'. They encounter waaay too many of those, especially in neighborhoods like mine. Tragically a fair # are GSD. Undoubtedly many are made that way, but some are 'ashioned ('trained') that way through poor handling, inept socialization & nutzo expectations of the dog & its environment.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

RubyTuesday said:


> Two K9 officers asked me about Sam's temperament. They went from looking dubious to beaming. Was she protective? I honestly dunno. She was very alert. She showed restraint & good judgment. IF protective, then how protective? Again, I dunno. (Despite being a baaad neighborhood my dogs have never had to protect me). *She was confident, discerning, slow to rile,* trustworthy with people, other dogs & pets and especially tolerant of small dogs & children. Frankly, she didn't much like other people. Nor did she dislike them. Her devotion was centered on family & close friends but she had a benign tolerance of others.


I live in a bad neighborhood. Tonight I had to drop my car off at the garage and walk home. I had both the dogs with me. At one point there was two large men walking towards us up the middle of the street in the dark nearing midnight. 

My older dog was on the alert, suspicious, silent, seeing a potential threat. He was watchful of the men as he waited _for me_ to further assess the extent of the threat.

My 11 month very confident pup cast a suspicious eye, went back to sniffing, glanced again and thought no more of it. _He had determined_ there was no threat.

Living in the bad area that I do, and not training my dogs in Sch or PPD, I would put my money on the old dog to stop the situation from potentially escalating to something ugly before it even begins.

There are times when a touch more nerve can be more suitable for the work required.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> He was watchful of the men as he waited _for me_ to further assess the extent of the threat.
> 
> My 11 month very confident pup cast a suspicious eye, went back to sniffing, glanced again and thought no more of it. _He had determined_ there was no threat.
> 
> ...


I like that the old dog waited for you to assess. As someone with a slightly sharp dog, I don't want my dog deciding and acting on what is or is not a threat . He can alert me but that is enough. Perhaps your young confident pup just lets the older one deal with things right now?


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## GermanShepherds6800 (Apr 24, 2011)

I agree from your list von Lotta is a good choice. Yuliya is a wonderful person and good with the dogs. I have met the dogs at shows. They are stable and healthy. I have not done business with her personally, nor do I know her on a personal level. These responses are just what I have come to conclusion from a friend who recently had dealing with her, from meeting her, and watching the shows.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Just to clarify with everyone- When I said these are the three "biggest" breeders in my area I did not mean size-wise xD I was speaking in terms of having heard the names of all three and met a couple dogs from them.

Out of the three, I liked the Von Lotta dogs the best (temperament and looks). I just figured to ask since there are so many knowledgable people on here.


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## Snillies (Jul 18, 2012)

*Appreciate this thread!*

I contacted Von Lotta last week about a future puppy to show and got a reply very fast! I loved the info on their website as well. Thanks for posting this thread!

BUT there are 2 GSD shows going on on Sept 29-30 in the Atlanta area. One is in Alpharetta ((2012 Shows Trials Matches | German Shepherd Dog Club of Atlanta)) and the other is in Tryone ((Events)). I'm sure there will be lots of info there!


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Snillies said:


> I contacted Von Lotta last week about a future puppy to show and got a reply very fast! I loved the info on their website as well. Thanks for posting this thread!
> 
> BUT there are 2 GSD shows going on on Sept 29-30 in the Atlanta area. One is in Alpharetta ((2012 Shows Trials Matches | German Shepherd Dog Club of Atlanta)) and the other is in Tryone ((Events)). I'm sure there will be lots of info there!


 I saw that, too! My best friend and I are planning on going!!!


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