# Best glucosamine/chondroitin supplement?



## GunnersMom

I've been giving Cosequin DS to my Goldens for quite a few years now and just recently started Gunner on it, as well.

Someone just told me today that I'm throwing money down the drain - that there are other glucosamine supplements that are just as high in quality, just as effective and about half the price. 

They recommended Springtime Inc., but I'd like some more opinions before I make any kind of switch. I've been very happy with Cosequin. It is a little pricey, but I don't want to sacrifice quality to save a few bucks. (I'm also a little concerned about where the glucosamine is actually coming from now, too.)

What brand(s) do you use and how do you think it compares to Cosequin?


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## BowWowMeow

I'm not a rep for Springtime Inc. but I look like one on this board!









I have been using their supplements for 6 years now and have been very pleased. My dogs have all done great on them. The owners of the company have gds, their customer service is stellar and they have also donated joint supplements to fosters when needed. I am currently using Longevity but have also used the Joint Health. I did switch Chama over to Cosequin at one point because I had heard such good things about it and ended up switching her back to Springtime Inc because the Cosequin (and I even got the strongest one) did not work for her at all. 

I know I've convinced a number of people on this board to switch so I'm sure they'll weigh in here and I've also gotten all of my friends with dogs to put them on the Longevity and they've all been pleased with the results too.


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## LisaT

I think it depends on what you are looking for. There may be other G&S supplements out there, but many do not contain the same amounts of chondroitin, and those that claim they do, may not have that on the label. Years ago, there was a study and only a few had the amount of condroitin that was claimed on the label, because the condroitin is the expensive ingredient. The two, G&S are supposed to work best when used together, more than the sum of parts, according to the research.

I used to prefer to give my girl a combination of products, rather than just one product.

There are products that will help with inflammation and pain, but I don't know which ones, other than things like G&C, or hyaulronic acid, that will prevent or slow the progression of changes in the joint.

I used to use OsteoBiFlex because the study I saw showed that it contianed what it said, and the ingredients were in the right amounts. However, they changed formulations a couple of years ago, and with Max's allergies, I just went back to Cosequin. LOL, I still use the similar Costco/Sam's Club brand for the humans in the family! For Indy, I also add MSM, and I have some HA that I want to try, but just haven't yet.


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## marksteven

i use 21st Century brand
Glucosamine 750mg
Chondroitin 600mg i have two knees that have been torn, started taking after surgery, excellent results. i give my dog 1/2 capsule good stuff without a fancy name. i get mine from Woodmans or Walmart


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## Fodder

> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> I used to prefer to give my girl a combination of products, rather than just one product.


nods.
the only problem i run into with this method is not knowing exactly whats working and what isnt... but thankfully alot of the items i can use for myself or other pets in the house.

right now on my counter i have springtimes longevitiy, bee pollen, move free gluc/chon/msm, ester-c, salmon oil, flax oil, vitamin e caps, cloves, garlic, and sweet potatos. i'm treating severe bilateral HD - so gia is on the highest dose of everything... i mix n match and only give supplements several days out of the week because its easier to mix with kibble and on the other days they're fed raw... i feel like a gourmet chef when i'm preparing her meals. _a scoop of this a couple of those a dash of this, lol._ i also have metacam and buffered aspirin that i use as needed after strenuous outings.


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## Maedchen

_ I've been very happy with Cosequin. It is a little pricey, but I don't want to sacrifice quality to save a few bucks._

Me neither. But bc I still want to save some $$, I buy the Cosequin for horses and only pay 1/3 the price as for the dog product. It has the exact same ingredients and comes as powder.


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## roxy84

i have used cosequin ds for the following reasons:

Cosequin ds uses low molecular weight chondroitin sulfate and manganese ascorbate which presumabely makes it more easily absorbed in dogs.

it is the only glucosamine/ chondroitin supplement that has been documented safe, effective, and bioavailable in published, peer-reviewed, controlled, veterinary U.S. clinical studies.

im concerned that many other supplements dont have the levels of ingredients that they claim.


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## 3K9Mom

I switched to Synovi G3 for Zamboni about 8 months ago when frankly, the amount of pills she was taking became overwhelming and the idea of a chewable was appealing (she refuses to eat Cosequin chewables). 

The improvement was apparent within about 3 weeks. 

I was giving her high quality (yup, pricey) human grade Glu/Chond supplements for almost a decade now and she has little arthritis, so I can't say they didn't work. The vet and radiologist are always amazed when we run films how little arthritis she does have. But she started to bounce more after the switch to Synovi, which has additional ingredients including MSM. 

So, that's what works for us.







At about $65 for 90 chewables at the vet's office.









I firmly believe that in vitamins and supplements, you mostly get what you pay for. Consumer Reports did a report where they tested the potency of (human) vitamins on the market and MOST did not have anywhere near the potency listed on the label, especially store brands. Overall, they recommend major national labels, Kirkland Signature (Costco) brand and I think they mentioned some Sams Club items. 

So, that's what I buy. Why spend half the money for a product that doesn't have the potency it says it does? I figure I might as well spend more and get what I need. 

Just some additional info: 

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satel...nce%2FHSELayout

http://www.ghchealth.com/all-vitamins-are-not-created-equal.html

http://www.anthonynunes.com/vitamins/

I also supplement Ester-C, vitamin E, fish oil, and some other stuff. All national brands, or Kirkland Signature. (Plus oils, kitchen herbs, specific foods, garlic, etc that I also buy at Costco







) Not the cheapest, but she's bouncing around, so it's money I gladly spend.


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## Barb E

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomAt about $65 for 90 chewables at the vet's office.


This is where I've always gotten Dante's Synovi G3 - I have always been happy with the shipment time, the service, the product and the price.
http://www.healthypets.com/synovig3.html


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: Maedchen_ I've been very happy with Cosequin. It is a little pricey, but I don't want to sacrifice quality to save a few bucks._
> 
> Me neither. But bc I still want to save some $$, I buy the Cosequin for horses and only pay 1/3 the price as for the dog product. It has the exact same ingredients and comes as powder.


Maedchen, question....

I've often wondered how you know that each scoop contains what it says it contains. For example, a scoop at the top of the bucket has a bit of a different mix than a scoop at the bottom??? 

I've thought about doing what you are doing, but this question has nagged at me.

I open the capsules and mix it in their food anyway -- the powder would work well for me.


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## 3K9Mom

Thanks Barb. I bought the giant container at my vet's office so I haven't had to restock yet. 

But I'll definitely use Healthy Pets when I do. You're the best!


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## GunnersMom

> Originally Posted By: LisaTI think it depends on what you are looking for. There may be other G&S supplements out there, but many do not contain the same amounts of chondroitin, and those that claim they do, may not have that on the label. Years ago, there was a study and only a few had the amount of condroitin that was claimed on the label, because the condroitin is the expensive ingredient. The two, G&S are supposed to work best when used together, more than the sum of parts, according to the research.
> 
> I used to prefer to give my girl a combination of products, rather than just one product.
> 
> There are products that will help with inflammation and pain, but I don't know which ones, other than things like G&C, or hyaulronic acid, that will prevent or slow the progression of changes in the joint.
> 
> I used to use OsteoBiFlex because the study I saw showed that it contianed what it said, and the ingredients were in the right amounts. However, they changed formulations a couple of years ago, and with Max's allergies, I just went back to Cosequin. LOL, I still use the similar Costco/Sam's Club brand for the humans in the family! For Indy, I also add MSM, and I have some HA that I want to try, but just haven't yet.


Neither one of my boys seem to have any pain at all, so I'm basically just looking to slow the progression of any changes. 
With Gunner, I just recently started hearing a pop, every once in a while - not often - when he jumps up on the furniture. So I figured (and after asking here) decided it was high time to get him on a supplement.
I started Riley on Cosequin about six months ago. I have a feeling that we're going to have problems with his hips (pretty sure we're looking at HD) so I wanted to start him right away, and the stronger the supplement, the better.

It's funny - the vet that originally recommended Cosequin to me actually took it himself! I thought the guy might be a little whacky, but he said he felt that it was safer and more effective than 99% of the human joint supplements out there.



> Originally Posted By: roxy84 im concerned that many other supplements dont have the levels of ingredients that they claim.


That concerns me, too. If they contain lower levels, not only will it cost me more money in the long run, but more importantly, it would almost certainly mean pain for the dogs. 
With either one of my guys, by the time I realize that another supplement isn't working, the damage could already be done.
Kind of like the old saying - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I've seen the results from Cosequin, so maybe I better just stick with it.


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: GunnersMom...
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> Originally Posted By: roxy84 im concerned that many other supplements dont have the levels of ingredients that they claim.
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> That concerns me, too. If they contain lower levels, not only will it cost me more money in the long run, but more importantly, it would almost certainly mean pain for the dogs.
> With either one of my guys, by the time I realize that another supplement isn't working, the damage could already be done.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was thinking about that too....with this stuff, you don't know until it's too late









I guess I don't buy Cosequin, but I've been buying Cosamin, the human version, at either Costco or Sam's. It all depends on who has the best deal whenever. Still thinking about getting the horse stuff though.


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## GunnersMom

> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> Yeah, I was thinking about that too....with this stuff, you don't know until it's too late


Yep. I really don't know if the Cosequin is doing anything for my boys, either. I saw what it did for Cooper, so I just have to _hope _that it's as effective for these two.

Incidentally, if any of you are concerned about where your glucosamine is coming from, I contacted Springtime Inc and Nutramax Laboratories (Cosequin.)
This is the response I got from Springtime:

_ Like all companies, we do use domestic and imported raw materials. All our 
raw materials are tested by FDA approved labs for purity and safety 
(ie:bacterial, heavy metals, contaminants, etc.) before the material is put 
into finished products. We have never had any adverse events with any of our 
products. Thank you! _

On the other hand, the rep I spoke to at Nutramax said that they do NOT import any raw materials from China. All of their ingredients come from suppliers in the U.S. 

Just passing along the information. (Don't shoot the messenger.







)


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## ozzymama

I use this (see below) from Holistic Blend

Glucosamine HCL Complex (Liquid) 340ml
[27999] $32.99 


For the treatment of Hip Displasia, Arthritis & Joint Pain 
The Powerful Benefits
Assists in the rehabilitation of damaged cartilage 
Helps reduce inflammation 
Enhances mobility and eases pain 
Supports joint function 
Liquid starts to absorb as soon as it enters the stomach 
Simply use the provided measuring cap and pour over food 
Ingredients: Glucosamine HCL, MSM, yucca, anise, stevia.

Dosage:
0 - 5 kg (0 - 11 lbs) ................ 2 ml 
5 - 11 kg (11 - 22 lbs) ............ 4 ml
10 - 15 kg (22 - 33 lbs) .......... 6 ml
15 - 20 kg (33 - 44 lbs) .......... 8 ml
20 - 30 kg (44 - 66 lbs) .......... 10 ml
30 - 40 kg (66 - 88 lbs) .......... 12 ml
40 - 50 kg (88 - 110 lbs) ........ 15 ml
50 - 60 kg (110 - 132 lbs) .......18 ml


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## ozzymama

I should add, since I'm dosing two dogs, it last approx. 16 days. Ozzy gets very low doses.


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## LisaT

Before Indy's hip surgery (when she was 12 months old), I started her on Cosequin. Within 3 days I say a huge and incredible difference. She had her surgery (TPO) at 14 months, and I have had her joint supplements since then (she's 11 1/2 now). There aren't any clear signs of arthritis that we can find. 

I do think there are sprobably ome changes in a couple joints near the lumbar-sacral junction, and maybe a knee. But that's pretty good for a dog that couldn't walk around the block by the time she was a year old.


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## GSDgirlAL

synovi G3 chews


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## Goldglv

I'm just curious, what makes Cosequin DS so much better than a Glucosamine & Chondroitin supplement that you could buy from a health food store? 

I've been giving my girl what I get in the health food store and it doesn't seem to be doing much good at all so I was looking for something else to try.


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## LisaT

The ingredients are carefully controlled and monitored in Cosequin, and have studies behind them: http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/Products/Animal/Research/ They use a certain type of G&S. I always think it's a good idea to start with Cosequin to see what type of reaction you get, and then switch to other brands later, so you have something to compare to.


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## BowWowMeow

Cosequin did absolutely nothing for Chama. In fact, she got worse. 

I have not seen any scientific studies but I have recommended Longevity to at least a hundred people (and use it with my own dogs) and every single dog has improved while on it.


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## balakai

I used to use Cosequin for JD but wasn't sure it was making a difference; switched to Longevity which does NOTHING for him. So now I'm going to try Synovi G3.

~Kristin


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## 3K9Mom

Longevity? Like Springtime Longevity? YOU recommend it? I've never noticed
















(and you've probably never noticed that I shop at Costco, and like some of their products, eh?







)


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## BowWowMeow

> Originally Posted By: balakaiI used to use Cosequin for JD but wasn't sure it was making a difference; switched to Longevity which does NOTHING for him. So now I'm going to try Synovi G3.
> 
> ~Kristin


How much did you give? Rafi gets a double dose and Chama was getting a triple dose but now is getting a double dose because I've got her on several other supplements at the same time. I am quite sure I wouldn't have seen results if I just gave the maintenance dose.


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## Barb E

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomLongevity? Like Springtime Longevity? YOU recommend it? I've never noticed
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You guys crack me up, Have I mentioned that lately?


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## LisaT

Can you believe I looked through this whole thing and couldn't find a link to the Longevity? Is it here somewhere?


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## BowWowMeow

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.
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Click to expand...

Yeah, well did you hear that LISA recommends eating Milky Ways for breakfast?









And right now I have Chama on Longevity, 2000mg of Ester C (I NEVER recommend that either), Cetyl-M and an herbal anti-inflammatory at night. And she's moving through the snow like a pro!









Oh, yeah, Lisa, here's that link: http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/121/2


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowYeah, well did you hear that LISA recommends eating Milky Ways for breakfast?


cripes, I'm never going to live that down....







(I just wanted to use the penguin) 

I'm looking for a second product, that my dogs won't react to...I'm off to look at that link again!


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## Barb E

> Originally Posted By: LisaT....
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Me too


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## 3K9Mom

Maybe Lisa meant that she was gazing at the Milky Way during breakfast?









I like these penguins. Not necessarily smileys, but they make me laugh every time I see them:


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## Barb E

And then there's this penquin








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u5mGd8Lr-A


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomMaybe Lisa meant that she was gazing at the Milky Way during breakfast?
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Thanks for the cover 3K9, yeah that's it, I was really star gazing!!









OMG, that penquin smack was too funny. I did literally laugh out loud in my office!




> Originally Posted By: Barb E.And then there's this penquin
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Wow, the secret life of penguins (and polar bears I guess). Who knew???


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## 3K9Mom

And out-of-control hamsters! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXRH50fvHWA&feature=related


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow....Oh, yeah, Lisa, here's that link: http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/121/2


Well, that's not going to work for Max -- increadibly reactive to all things pork and any type of yeast additive









BUT, here is the list of those ingredients that I used to give Indy:

Spirulina (micro-algae)
Yeast culture
MSM
Chondroitin sulfate
Glucosamine HCL
Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)
Citrus bioflavonoid complex
Hesperidin
Biotin

That's 9 out of 14 of the ingredients. Of all of the above, I haven't given the spirulina in awhile, and I stopped the yeast. All the rest I still give. 

For Indy, I would worry about the bee pollen. I know how it is supposed to help, but Indy is the dog that developed a tumor at the site of her wasp sting, so it would make me nervous.

Anyway, I get why you like the product so much -- lots of great stuff in there.


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomAnd out-of-control hamsters!
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> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXRH50fvHWA&feature=related


Okay, I want to know what happened to Tac, assuming that's the one that kinda flew off and we never saw again?!?


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## 3K9Mom

He hurt his knee and is taking Springtime Longevity and Ester-C, is eating candy and fish while stargazing with his friend the penguin at the Old Hamster's Home.









There, does that cover everything we mentioned on the thread?


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## LisaT

Very impressive I might add


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## balakai

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow How much did you give? Rafi gets a double dose and Chama was getting a triple dose but now is getting a double dose because I've got her on several other supplements at the same time. I am quite sure I wouldn't have seen results if I just gave the maintenance dose.


He was getting a double dose most of the time, triple for a couple of weeks but then he was puking it up. I was sooo ready for it to make a huge difference because of the reports from various people (not just Ruth) but alas, not for my dog.









~Kristin


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## Maedchen

Lisa, maybe you should consider this product:
myristin special canine joint formula 

I've been using it (in rotation w. consequin) for over a half year now and just re-ordered,- I really like it. I don't how much if any pork the flavoring might contain though.


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## LisaT

Thanks Maedchen,

Typically if there is lipase in it, he can't take it because he is *that* sensitive to pork, which is really a shame. I would like to have him on a good pork based enzyme







And MSM makes him pee uncontrollably, go figure.

Looks like a good product though -- I"m a huge fan of CMO!


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## BowWowMeow

Wow, this thread really went to the penguins!









The other joint support I use for Chama is called Advanced Cetyl-M Joint Action Formula. It has really helped her. Is this something you could use, Lisa?

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?...CFQw9GgodYk1zSg


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## LisaT

> Quote: Cetyl Myristoleate, Glucosamine-HCL, Garlic Root, Bromelain, Boswellin Extract, Ginger Root Extract, Yucca Extract, Lipase and Natural Roast Beef and Liver Flavorings.


You show me your CM product, I'll show you mine







:
http://www.vitacost.com/Jarrow-Formulas-True-CMO-Cetyl-Myristoleate

Yours looks like a good product. I alternate a garlic supplement and ginger with Indy -- your product might work for her, and it has some antiinflammatory stuff too. Wouldn't work for Max, the lipase, and also the ginger and garlic are warming -- that stuff turns his eyes beet red!


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## Gusto's Mommy

Has anyone tried Whole Food's brand Gluc/Cond/MSM? I spoke to someone in the vitamin aisle there and he was very helpful. They offer Fish and vegetable derived Glucosamine but I bought the Fish- Human Grade pills. It is about $30 for 240 pills. I just started my guy on it last night so it's too soon to tell. I prefer all natural/organic products as to avoid any unnatural fillers etc....


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## jakeandrenee

I am looking for a good human grade supplement for Jake.....so was it decided that Costco's brand is a thumbs up? And if giving human grade can someone tell me the correct dosage? Sorry for the hijack.


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## sable123

jakeandrenee said:


> I am looking for a good human grade supplement for Jake.....so was it decided that Costco's brand is a thumbs up? And if giving human grade can someone tell me the correct dosage? Sorry for the hijack.


Don't drive yourself crazy. While it is unlikely to harm your dog, there is ZERO evidence these supplements do anything but drain your wallet.

ZERO


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## Jax08

sable123 said:


> Don't drive yourself crazy. While it is unlikely to harm your dog, there is ZERO evidence these supplements do anything but drain your wallet.
> 
> ZERO



Except the many, many, many people who see a noticeable difference in their dogs after giving it to them. And the many, many, many people who can tell you they feel the difference when they don't take the joint supplements. Oh yeah...and the studies that have been done on them...except for all that, there is ZERO evidence.

Glucosamine and Chondroitin - Studies Investigate How Effective Are Joint Supplements?


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## sable123

Jax08 said:


> Except the many, many, many people who see a noticeable difference in their dogs after giving it to them. And the many, many, many people who can tell you they feel the difference when they don't take the joint supplements. Oh yeah...and the studies that have been done on them...except for all that, there is ZERO evidence.
> 
> Glucosamine and Chondroitin - Studies Investigate How Effective Are Joint Supplements?


The few real scientific studies that have been done all show that placebo has an equal effect.

A lot of people were hopeful but there is no proven benefit to these products. The science is crystal clear on this. Crystal.


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## Jax08

Then by all means, share your few real, super secret, crystal clear science with us for once. You seem to have a vast library but are unwilling to share.


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## krystyne73

(Hi-jacked)
There are vitamin/supplement supporters and then there is the opposing team lol
I am pro-supplements supporter and proud of it!

Right now my dogs are taking Gluco-500mg, MSM-500mg, Chondro 200mg. Its a Petco brand from NaturVet. Is this a bad brand?
I was told by the trainer to start adding MSM to one of my dogs, but I give it to all of them.

I take Spirulina and CQ10, along with other supplements to reverse my age lol


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## Jax08

The original post was from 2008! :rofl:

I use springtimeinc joint supplement, fish oil, vit e and vit c. I dont' think 500 mg is enough. I would up that to 1000 mg minimum.


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## Dejavu

jakeandrenee said:


> I am looking for a good human grade supplement for Jake.....so was it decided that Costco's brand is a thumbs up? And if giving human grade can someone tell me the correct dosage? Sorry for the hijack.


I want to know this too. Anyone here using human grade glucosaimine/chondroitin?


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## jakeandrenee

I realize the thread started in 08', however shifting through it I saw that Springtime seems to be popular but I'd like to know if anyone has had good results with human grade MSM/chond.


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## Jax08

I've never tried supplements sold for people. The chewables are worthwhile for me because I don't have to dip them in PB.

I've heard other people say they use people pills and many buy them from vitacost.com. Does Jake have problems? Have you xrayed his hips? If he doesn't have problems then you really are wasting your money. You would be better off supplementing fish oil, vit e and vit c. All of which are proven to help stop/slow arthritis.


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## jakeandrenee

No, I have not xrayed Jake yet, he will be a year old in a few weeks. However realizing how LB dogs are so predisposed to arthritis etc I want to get ahead of the game. I haven't read that it can hurt? 

He doesn't tolerate vit c and salmon oil on a daily basis, so I give it to him about twice a week.

I am beginning to suspect an elbow issue,,,,,but that's for another thread.


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## Jax08

No, it won't hurt. I think I remember you had problems with vit C? Wasn't that you that had a thread on that? Have you tried other forms of O3's for him? I created a spreadsheet to find Jax's ratio but she's on RAW. Are you using Ester C for him? Or just regular Vit C?


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## Lin

I use human grade supplements. They're more affordable and have the higher dosages. I give 1500 Glucosamine, 1000 chondroitin, and 750 MSM. When my vet asked me the dosages and I replied, he gave me a high five for it. Most of the pet supplements have dosages too low to be therapeutic. I've been told this is because of the tendency of many pet owners to overdose, so they have lower dosages to be safe... 

I also give vitamin C, vitamin E (800 iu), triple dose omega 3s (battling autoimmune dry eye), double dose borage oil (GLA). I'm wanting to add in hyaluronic acid and switch to ester C in the future but right now with my budget I'm hesitant to make changes.


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## RubyTuesday

I use the human supps for my dogs on the advice of my previous vet. He recommended 'em b/c they're as good & usually less expensive. Cochise was mildly arthritic ~10 or 11 & responded very quickly to 'em. He was almost 13 when he died of post-surgical complications & showed NO evidence of even mild arthritis at that time. He was running like the wind until the very end. Sam was mildly arthritic at ~8.5 & also responded FAST upon starting them. She turned 12 in Dec & is doing very well. A brisk trot is usually as fast as she cares to go but her movement is free, easy & appears comfortable.

Sam & I switched to an equine formula last Dec b/c I'm hoping the higher yet more affordable dosage will do me more good. (My response has been poor for some yrs). I'm not convinced it's doing me any more good but it dissolves readily in Sam's food/water meal & she's doing as well on it as the human stuff.


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## jakeandrenee

I am not sure if the culprit is the Vit C or the salmon oil, and yes I give reg Vit C. He has horrible diarrhea when given to often. I got duped into buying some NUVET supplements before I joined the forum and didn't give them to him....they have cal/phos. Now that he is about to be a year old I pulled them out hoping they have SOMETHING in them and they don't. Just a really basic vitamin....I am using them as "special" treats to use them up.

So next time I head out to Costco I wanted to pick up some worthwhile supplements for Jake if it's feasible.


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## kiya

I have problems with my knee. Last year my knee began bothering my really bad. Long story short...I started taking a Glucosmine Chondroitin MSM suppliement from Puritans Pride. I can say that my knee felt better. I slacked off taking them, I don't know if it's the winter weather but my knee's been bothering me again. Needless to say I have resumed taking the pills again.
My vet said my 8 yr old has artritis really bad, you would never know it. She recommended the Dasaquin for him and he's been on it for a few weeks now. I want to try the Springtime products but I am considering putting my other 2 dogs on human suppliements because of the cost.


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