# Opinions on this breeding?



## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

I am being offered the pick male from this breeding. He is a 2 week old black sable, I know the breeder, and he decided not to keep him. However, without being harsh... I just don't know if I trust it is a GREAT breeding. He says it is, but I don't know?

I am actually on the list for second pick from Spartanville's November breeding. So I'm feeling like that would be a better pup. However, this pup is half the cost, the breeder has been my good friend for years, and then that impulse buy mentality kicks in of 6 weeks vs waiting 6 months...

Any opinions on the litter and the dogs? My biggest concern is the bitch.

Breeder says he is titling the male this fall. I have "watched" the male grow up, as he is the same age my Luther was, and I've always thought he was a good looking dog.

Line-breeding for the progency of Lycan z Policija von den Schultz and Andrews & Dauderman's Greta - German Shepherd Dog

Lycan z Policija von den Schultz - German Shepherd Dog

Andrews & Dauderman's Greta - German Shepherd Dog


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Stormfronts Brawnson is Delgado's great grandfather on his fathers side

Illo v.d. Abfuhr is Delgado's grandfather on his mothers side

I don't recognize the others, I'm still learning about line breeding but PM cliffson1. He'll give you a honest opinion . I've been beyond thrilled with Delgado


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

"better" is relative -- Better for what? What are you looking for in a dog?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Did the breeder say why he chose the female and decided to do this breeding? Have you seen the female? 

Maybe Cliff can answer your question. I don't know the Czech lines well enough in the male's pedigree. I know specific dogs in the female's pedigree (Chris Wild owned Ron Peko Haus and a son), but there are far too many unknowns for me to give any advice on the breeding itself.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

As far as the breeding--it's sort of an odd mixture of bloodlines. Some very good ancestors in there, but it combines Czech, German working, German conformation, a little bit of Danish working dogs, a little bit of DDR. A number of dogs with very high drives and intensity and hardness.

I think it would matter a great deal what you think of the parents--do you like them? Are they hip tested? Are they the type of dog that you want to own?


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

I am looking for a largely companion dog, possibly a schutzhund hobby competitor. It'll be my first looking line pup. As I've heard it said, I don't want a "Mal in a gsd body." Not super drivey.

I look spartanville for the looks of the dogs, I think the pedigrees are impressive, I've heard DDR tends to be more medium drive.

My friend says DDR dogs are "crap". He calls them good looking fear biters too low drive to be decent working dogs. He says Czech lines are the way to go. He picked both his dogs for pedigree largely, and he says the male is a good hard dog. He says the lines will produce excellent drive, hard hitting, motivated dogs.

To hear him talk, it should be an amazing pup. But I don't know how much of that is young egotistical male BS and how much is legit knowledge.

My concerns, I dont know the dogs personally. Just pics and videos of the male. Neither are titled or tested. And I'm not a fan of the female physically either, I think she is a little sloppy looking.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Neither are titled or tested. And I'm not a fan of the female physically either, I think she is a little sloppy looking.


 Then what is the draw to this breeding for you? I would keep looking if you aren't feeling 'it'!
I was in the same frame of mind as you as far as that DDR/black sable look. I even started a thread on it! Decided I'd rather go with the blending of WG/Czech....if it is done right you can get a great balance.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

> It'll be my first looking line pup.


Whats a looking line? :rofl:


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## weberhaus (Jan 2, 2008)

I would say for me I would want more info on hip back grounds maybe they are just not listed. But as a Czech and DDR person it can say I would want to see more titles and hip checks. Maybe look at other breeders to see if you are drawn back to this one for a reason. 
On a side note my DDR male is not a fear biter or a crap dog so that statement is just someone's opinion and I would not lump all in the same basket. I have many Czech dogs and they are not all the same. Watch video of the dogs you like and meet them if you can. If you want to buy from a breeder you can't meet parents ask buyers who have meet them most good breeders will give you as list of someone you can chat with who was there recently. 
Best of luck to you and I hope you find the right dog.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

PatchonGSD said:


> Whats a looking line? :rofl:


I'm sorry lol I thought I edited everything. The downfalls of posting on a phone.

WORKING LINE *


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

I think your friend is a little off on his history of Czech lines and DDR after all others can correct me if i ma wrong but I thought the lineage was that once the wall went up the dogs behind the wall all pretty much originated in the DDr and spread out. So most of the Czech lines dog can be traced back far to be descendants of DDR dogs.If you are having second thoughts listen to your gut and go with it and not the impulse.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Like some others, I'm familiar with some lines in the pedigree and have first hand experience with Ron Peko Haus and his offspring of course, but there are too many dogs in there unknown to me to really comment on the pedigree and what to expect. Many of the dogs in the first few generations on the dam's side especially are huge unknowns. I will say at first glance the idea of crossing Ronnie to Brawnson and then some other Czech lines and unproven show (pet?) lines would give me pause, but again I'm not familiar enough with these specific Czech lines or most of what is in the dam's pedigree so perhaps there are enough compensatory factors there. No doubt there will be some very strong drive, strong personalities and lots of "working ability" here, but I would worry about a potential lack of overall balance and sufficient temperament to handle the drive and aggression that could come through.

I will say I'm quite skeptical on the quality, balance and knowledge being exhibited in this particular breeding choice. Not quality so much in the individual dogs themselves, but in the genetic combo they would produce. Not every dog is a good match for every other, and good breeding is far more than just putting two 'good dogs' together. Two good dogs can produce a litter of horrible dogs if they are not a good genetic match. And honestly, some of the overly opinionated and rather ignorant statements by the breeder that you've shared sure don't raise my comfort level any. 

I think you would do best to spend a lot of time with the individual sire and dam in person, and then track down other objective parties with some solid knowledge of their lines and what they actually produce. There are enough Czech experts around to help decipher the sire's side. The dam's will be much more difficult to learn about.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Chris Wild said:


> And honestly, some of the overly opinionated and rather ignorant statements by the breeder that you've shared sure don't raise my comfort level any.


 I think, the breeder may not actually be ignorant and opinionated. He just knows that OP is on the waiting list for a pure DDR breeding combination where both parents are titled, so why not to pour some dirt on DDRs and convince the OP to buy his own questionable pup asap. This would definitely drive me away as I would question the intentions of my 'friend' and the quality of his 'advice'. Just saying


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Does your friend realize that there are WG Showlines, American ??? dogs and just a general mishmash on this pedigree???? Personally, I would not look at this combo of widely divergent type and quality for a companion or a working dog...too many different types - there should be a great deal of similar qualities/characteristics in a breeding and then compensatory for the lacks...this is just too all over the board to be predictable.

Lee


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I think I knew deep down that I would be happier with a spartanville pup. Not that I don't "trust" my friend, but there's just too many variables, not enough reliability. His "opinions" may be accurate, maybe DDR lines in general don't have enough drive to be what he thinks a german shepherd SHOULD be, but that doesn't mean his opinions are RIGHT for me. 

I do simply adore the pup he keeps sending me pictures of, but of course it's a pup, who can resist a german shepherd puppy?? To just seal the deal, I mailed off my deposit to spartanville. No turning back now, that bad boy's non-refundable! lol

Also, actually seeing his dogs would be out of the question. He lives 1100 miles away! Our interaction is daily, but it's strictly phone/internet. If I had first hand experience of his dogs, that would make the question of if I want his puppy much easier to answer.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> Does your friend realize that there are WG Showlines, American ??? dogs and just a general mishmash on this pedigree???? Personally, I would not look at this combo of widely divergent type and quality for a companion or a working dog...too many different types - there should be a great deal of similar qualities/characteristics in a breeding and then compensatory for the lacks...this is just too all over the board to be predictable.
> 
> Lee


I actually mentioned that, as he knows I'm not always a fan of WGSL. He says his ideal pup is 1/4 with czech, as it adds controllability and conformation. He says his favorite to breed = czech dog x belgian dog/dutch KNPV dog. Belgian being his choice, largely a fan of Peko Haus. 

He also insists if I take his pup I HAVE to title him, I like that at least. His biggest comparison of DDR dogs, he says they're like the GOTTI lines of GSDs (AKA crap). "Big, dark, cool looking, no substance."


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Many people just don't seem to understand the DDR lines. They are slow to mature mentally and therefore don't "turn on" early like some other lines can and do.

What bothers me most tho is that he seems to be pushing this puppy on you. If the dog is that great, then he should be able to sell him.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Anubis_Star said:


> He also insists if I take his pup I HAVE to title him, I like that at least.


Really? To each his own- but I gotta say, I would be incredibly turned off if a breeder told me I had to title _my_ dog that I bought from them. What if they want the dog titled in a sport I don't care about? What if I don't have local training facilities? A "requirement" to title sounds like a load of crap to me. Surely this isn't common in contracts?


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Kinda ironic that he insists that you HAVE to title the puppy out of his untested dogs that he didn't bother to title. His statements about DDRs are laughable, you better not repeat them especially to Connie, she may refund your deposit


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

GSD07 said:


> Kinda ironic that he insists that you HAVE to title the puppy out of his untested dogs that he didn't bother to title. His statements about DDRs are laughable, you better not repeat them especially to Connie, she may refund your deposit


Yeah, I didn't really buy any of that. And Connie has been an absolute JOY to work with! I don't think I could live with myself if I ever degraded her dogs, lol


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