# Shield K9...



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

...that's it. I've had it with Agis. What I'm doing obviously isn't working. Toby got uncomfortable with balanced training but last night I was like, no, we need that. Agis needs consequences. 

Agis has been WAY better since I've been not sick for the most part. He's acting like himself again. Except sometimes, and when he reacts, he reacts. 

This week, one of the dogs he reacted at over sticks at the field when I was sick got off the elevator (already barking) while we were in the lobby waiting and even though I was away from the elevator...Agis LOST it. And while he's not GSD size he's big enough that a dog losing it is alarming and frankly I had him front feet off the floor and he was just beyond my reach (emotionally/mentally). He's wearing an (ill-fitted IMO) prong and I think I'm amping him up/making it worse. It's been so long since I've had to use one (on Teagan) that I need someone to help me with timing/force/technique. 

And I want hands/eyes on. Videos I'm not comfortable with. I mean, is he going to kill a dog? Absolutely not. Is it embarrassing and not what I want my dog to behave like? Absolutely!!!!!!!

I mean, Agis doesn't like that dog (obviously) and I know some dogs just don't get along, but it'd be nice if he could be NEUTRAL around dogs he dislikes. 

So I reached back to Shield K9 last night and while we are still scary broke (apparently being off work for 10 weeks takes longer to recover from financially then I thought) we're going to have to make it work. I'm hoping we can get him assessed for reactive vs. regular classes sometime in the next week and get registered. I get paid on the 9th which'll help. 

Stressed but hopeful.


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

I hope this works out for you @jarn. I can’t imagine the tension of elevator rides or apartment hallways, etc.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks @Zeppy - it really is negotiating tight spaces like that that is an issue. Hiking no problem. Narrow sidewalks with no boulevards or the lobby? Not so good. 

Maybe we're just not consistent enough, likely. But I also feel like I am not being helpful so why be consistent about something that's wrong? Like I said, ugh.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Good for you. I get the bank account drain. I also understand the frustration when you say enough is enough. I am really too nice and punishment is difficult for me. 
Being able to get the hands-on help with all the situations they can create being in such a busy environment I bet is going to pay off fast. Best of luck to you. Hope to hear about your experience.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks @Apex1 - I know how valuable you've found Shield's courses. Since we're close enough (1-1.5 hours away depending on traffic I would say) it seems like it makes sense to go in person.

We go tomorrow morning for him to be assessed. The manager is leaning towards reactive class or possibly 1-1 (which would be more expensive, but given the current state of our finances, would avoid us having to pay it all BOOM! at once, so I'm not entirely opposed. 

Toby is not happy with me given the money thing, but I just honestly - I don't like skulking out doors or being stressed that the doors will open and there will be a dog there. If he was 10lbs everyone would think it is funny but he's not. 

I should've done this from the start...well, better late than never I guess.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

@jarn my husband and I have had some difficult conversations about $ when it comes to the dogs. I get it. Atleast your going to a place where you will be successful. You can trust them in their guidance. You won't be paying a fee to meet one time and find out they aren't the right person for the job.
I'm still on that journey. I've driven 4 hours one way I'd happily drive 1.5 hours....gas prices are not helping geez 
I'm giving it one more try. I have an in-person trainer coming to my home 6/16. Hope he is the "one". If not I give up trying to find an in-person trainer. 
I really believe when your struggling there is no replacement for an in-person trainer. Sheild K9 online course is the next best thing based on what I've tried. 
Best of luck to you.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

@Apex1 yes, 1.5 hours is no big deal. I've driven that to trainers in the east of Toronto (ahh, traffic! it was rush hour when I would go) 

The money thing wouldn't be as bad (or bad at all) if I hadn't been sick and now Neb (14) has kidney issues so we've been running tests etc. so that's not cheap either - do you know a urine culture costs $165 plus tax here? I've paid for them before, but I remembered them being $90. I think that's for the regular urinalysis though, not the actual culture. Anyways, I was taken aback. Doing an exam, regular urine and a cbc to check for a few things cost $470 I think it was last week. At least they comped the blood draw, I think that's normal though. Then they wanted to do his annual this Monday and I was like 'you looked at his teeth, his blood, his urine, his body condition, took his temperature, palpitated his entire body - he's covered thanks'. (In fairness it wasn't the vet that said that but the new reception said 'He's still due for one'. I've talked the vet who wasn't fussed in the slightest. He needs his lepto booster but next time we're in I'll have it done or pop over sometime for a tech to give. Luckily he thinks the vet is a wonderland where only good things happen!


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Between training, equipment, food and going through the process of getting both dogs neutered (exams and blood draws) and one dog getting his vaccines and one will need hip x-rays at neutering all $$$$. 
My husband quit his job opened his own business which is going well but takes time. I think I can relate. 🙃
Nothing we won't do for these dogs 😉
They both do well enough at the vet for now will see after the snips 😐


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

Is it possible Agis is picking up on your health situation and trying to protect you because he senses you are not 100%? Perhaps he is reacting to anything he sees as a potential threat to you as a weakened member of the pack? Would changing his training towards him being a service dog for you be a possible solution? GS's sure pick up on stress in the household. Has everyone's routine changed? Agis aside, I hope you feel better soon and things get back to normal.


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

Toby sure sounds a lot like my own partner. Love those qualities in a man (gentle, compassionate, and sweet) but when it comes to dogs… where the boundaries at? lol. Keep us posted on how Agis and you guys do.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

@Apex1 it's a good thing Toby and I don't have kids, we'd have to give them to an orphanage haha...I mean, you've got to prioritize, dogs were here first!!!!!! Heh. (You can tell I'm not a kid person, can't you)

Good for your husband! I am so impressed at people who open businesses. I am a real wimp with that sort of thing. 

@Buckelke I don't think he's being protective - when it was dark still at 5am and we were outside if someone was around he'd be alert/place himself between us but I don't think most of the dog stuff is that at all. 

My illness was long-lived (it felt like, 10 weeks) but hopefully transient - I'm schizoaffective and was changing antipsychotics, the first new one made me very ill, finally they took me off that, then the next one made me even sicker (I've been on tons and never had this reaction before, in fact, the second 'new' one I'd been on before without issue - not really sure what caused it this time). I lost around 30lbs, could barely walk to the kitchen I was so weak (keeping in mind we're in an apartment, not a huge house), projectile vomiting despite zofran, fainted, hit my head, had a concussion from that, blah blah - but I've been fine for awhile now. Just needed time to let my system reset. 

@Zeppy oh my goodness yes - he's gentle, kind, supportive, compassionate - the all-round best person I know, I aspire to be like him - but man! He always says to me 'I don't know why Agis doesn't jump on you' and I say 'I do'. (And am I perfect with boundaries? No. But better than him I think. Well, we've all got our own foibles).


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

Just focus on feeling better. As things fall into place, Agis will, too. From his point of view, he knows something is wrong, but not what or what he should do. Some dogs panic, others like Jake take charge. Jake would come stick he nose in my face about once an hour. Duke just whines,cries and paces. All these things take time and adjustment. You both need that reset. I'm glad to hear you are feeling better.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Buckelke said:


> Just focus on feeling better. As things fall into place, Agis will, too. From his point of view, he knows something is wrong, but not what or what he should do. Some dogs panic, others like Jake take charge. Jake would come stick he nose in my face about once an hour. Duke just whines,cries and paces. All these things take time and adjustment. You both need that reset. I'm glad to hear you are feeling better.


Thanks @Buckelke - I've been better for a bit now (6 or 7 weeks I guess? I can't remember), long enough I thought we had put this behind us. He had his moments before but not like this. I am thinking it could be the illness in part, but he also needs some more thorough training with someone watching us in person. Even if he wasn't acting like this I'd like to do in-person formal obedience training.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Fair corrections are not punishment; just the opposite.
What's unfair is allowing poor behavior to fester and continue for months/year, bringing continued stress to both handler and the dog as the dog see requests/suggestions vs a non negotiable command.

"I'm too nice". It's really the opposite. You can't alter a barking/lunging/reactive dog with cookies.

When they stop the behavior, what was more fair to the dog?


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

WNGD said:


> Fair corrections are not punishment; just the opposite.
> What's unfair is allowing poor behavior to fester and continue for months/year, bringing continued stress to both handler and the dog as the dog see requests/suggestions vs a non negotiable command.
> 
> "I'm too nice". It's really the opposite. You can't alter a barking/lunging/reactive dog with cookies.
> ...


I think you're spot on. And what I have done with training him - 1 on 1 with a 'positive only' trainer, then online because everything in person that I could find/wanted to do closed with COVID - has not worked. I've had dogs listen well in the past, and Agis is a good dog - but I feel like we're not letting him reach his potential and be a dog that enjoys doing his stuff and us with him. 

It doesn't always help that Toby is a 'it's fine' person and I am the opposite. So there's that balance to find between us/bringing him on board. That he walks Agis on the (ill-fitting) prong is a minor miracle IMO. I don't know if it is also because he chose Agis and we've had him since a puppy, but Luc and Teagan (both GSDs) he was far less 'Oh it's okay' about if they misbehaved. I'm not sure what's changed exactly. Maybe Teagan was always, from the day I brought her home, so before him, so much more work/a liability so to speak that he was that more alive to her aggressive potential, where he sees Agis as his fun play buddy who can do very little wrong. Dunno.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I should say too, when we're up north in the woods he's a completely different dog. When my friend Mel and I went at the start of May backpacking and bushwhacking with him and he was off-leash pretty much the entire weekend he was beautifully behaved, even when we did see other dogs - okay, he got a bit of a chase in on a grouse and waded in after some geese, but no harm no foul on both of those incidents (dumb dog with the geese, I mean, honestly!). We just need to transfer the calm he feels on trails to areas where there are a lot of dogs (we live in a dog-heavy building, complex, neighbourhood, and are very close to one of the city's largest parks with lots of off-leash areas so people come here with their dogs too).


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

"No harm no fowl" I mean haha okay okay I'll scuttle off now


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

WNGD said:


> "I'm too nice". It's really the opposite


Well that was rather scoffing. Derisive recieved clearly. 🤷‍♀️ Everyone has to start somewhere. Correcting bad behavior didn't come naturally to me. Unfair to the dog surely.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Apex1 said:


> Well that was rather scoffing. Derisive recieved clearly. 🤷‍♀️ Everyone has to start somewhere. Correcting bad behavior didn't come naturally to me. Unfair to the dog surely.


Oh I missed that. Didn't come naturally to me either, and it certainly hasn't to Toby (I thought the comment was directed at Toby and I). I would say with all the work you've been clearly doing and doing balanced stuff like the Shield courses you're doing your due diligence and putting in the work.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Skulking through hallways and dreading doors opening. I hear that! Shadow is a freak. And she reacts to some people . It is not fun. Somedays she is solid gold, other days not so much and I have to negotiate stairs. No elevators in the Hood! Lol.

I am fortunate that I answer to no one about money issues. I work for it and it is mine. I will spend it as I see fit. Of course, I also have no one to blame but me for anything.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> "No harm no fowl" I mean haha okay okay I'll scuttle off now


Try the fish, I'll be here all week!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Apex1 said:


> Well that was rather scoffing. Derisive recieved clearly. 🤷‍♀️ Everyone has to start somewhere. Correcting bad behavior didn't come naturally to me. Unfair to the dog surely.


It was not meant as derisive at all. Please don't be offended, I'm sure it's virtually no one's intention here and it's not mine. And honestly, you can't expect everyone to know or remember if this is a person's 1st dog period or 8th GSD.

But by the way, my comment would have been the same; most of the time when people say they are too nice to make effective corrections or they're afraid a correction might "harm their relationship" (not what you said) with the dog, both comments are in error.

But the point I continually try to make is that it's much more fair and less injurious to the dog to issue a fair firm (I often say age appropriate) effectively producing correction....than months of nagging, confusing ineffective semi-corrections. 

It hits me most when I see large dogs literally dragging people down the street, week after week. Or lunging day after day. Small dogs who refuse to stop barking and won't recall for the life of them. Dogs have never been trained properly or corrected when necessary. 

I have friends who have never trained their little something-poo anything beyond sit and beg for food. You're right, entirely unfair to the dog.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> Oh I missed that. Didn't come naturally to me either, and it certainly hasn't to Toby (I thought the comment was directed at Toby and I). I would say with all the work you've been clearly doing and doing balanced stuff like the Shield courses you're doing your due diligence and putting in the work.


That's why I didn't use the quote feature, it wasn't directed at anyone.
Look at the never ending puppy biting issue: end it early through effective communication that you're not going to put up with it/you're no longer a good target and don't let it drag on for months on end, it's not fair to the dog and you get to save some blood


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

WNGD said:


> That's why I didn't use the quote feature, it wasn't directed at anyone.
> Look at the never ending puppy biting issue: end it early through effective communication that you're not going to put up with it/you're no longer a good target and don't let it drag on for months on end, it's not fair to the dog and you get to save some blood


General dialogue!

I honestly don't even know how we dealt with Agis's puppy biting. I don't remember him doing it a lot (to be fair, not a GSD haha) and I don't remember him stopping particularly. He doesn't bite, and I know he did. Thinking about it, he bit Toby...hmm. Maybe I've blocked hahaha but no he's a good boy about stuff like that. Has very good bite inhibition when we play rough.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> Skulking through hallways and dreading doors opening. I hear that! Shadow is a freak. And she reacts to some people . It is not fun. Somedays she is solid gold, other days not so much and I have to negotiate stairs. No elevators in the Hood! Lol.
> 
> I am fortunate that I answer to no one about money issues. I work for it and it is mine. I will spend it as I see fit. Of course, I also have no one to blame but me for anything.


Shadow is a complete sweetheart ❤


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Saphire said:


> Shadow is a complete sweetheart ❤


I mean even if she breaks into @Sabis mom muffin stash...I've not met her (lucky @Saphire) but she's the best all the same!!!!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Shadow is sweet and shy and quirky. She is also stubborn and weird and anxious. 
She eats chicken feet from @Saphire like they are heaven sent. I give her one and I'm trying voodoo on her! My neighbor is her best bud if he is sitting. If we see him walking he is the boogey man. People coming up the stairs all cool. Down not so much. Good times.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

Sabis mom said:


> Shadow is sweet and shy and quirky. She is also stubborn and weird and anxious.
> She eats chicken feet from @Saphire like they are heaven sent. I give her one and I'm trying voodoo on her! My neighbor is her best bud if he is sitting. If we see him walking he is the boogey man. People coming up the stairs all cool. Down not so much. Good times.


Just when I thought a puppy was a lot of work lol


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Carter Smith said:


> Just when I thought a puppy was a lot of work lol


Oh yeah Luc got weird when he was older too...kids? Sure, no problem. Kid riding on shoulders? I DON'T THINK SO (I was like 'what? where did THAT come from?'). I think he had his ideas of how things should go and people should behave and little people were not to sit on top of other people who were walking around? 

Shield went well I think. 

They picked up on all his body language stuff (but then if they hadn't that would've been bad). We all agree Agis can be an ******* (maybe Toby not as much, but yeah). He was actually pretty good there, he didn't go into a big display, but did the whole tense/stare/tail over back thing he likes to do too (Toby was like 'Oh he always holds his tail like that!' no he doesn't Sweetie). Toby is unhappy about the cost but on board with doing the work, so that's a relief. Should be interesting correcting him in a fur baby building...we'll have to find the mastiff owner (that mastiff is not friendly either, it's quite aggressive) and just be the jerk owners of jerk dogs together heh...scuttles off again...but I feel like that guy wouldn't be all 'YOU'RE HURTING FLUFFY'! I see that guy cross the street to avoid other dogs when he's out with his boy (he's a beeeaaaaauuuuuutiful mastiff, my goodness though - total dog crush!).

So Thursday is a one on one, and then we'll assess from there if more private lessons or join a class. If we do private they'll also show us e-collar too which would be nice. No off-leash for now, which made Toby sad because we went for a hike afterwards. 

I said to the trainer (whose name I totally don't remember because I suck at names - we just started chatting - I'm assuming she'll be our trainer - god I suck!!!!! - that I worry I'm amping him up with the prong and she said with the degree he gets aroused she doesn't think it is a good tool for correction for him. So that was interesting and helpful.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

@WNGD sorry for taking your statements personally.

I agree with your statements in general. I understand your protection for the dogs your desire to help and the fact that some posts get under the skin. 

Communicating in a way that the dog understands and respects you matters positively and negatively.

Going beyond that especially with a more difficult dog matters too. How you live with your dog.


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

Apex1 said:


> How you live with your dog.


Definitely agree with you and Larry Krohn on this.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Glad to hear it went well. If not the prong for correction what will you use? 

How is Agis on the loose leash walking? 

Not allowing my dogs off leash was super hard for me to give up. They were only off leash at home in our woods but I did it. 

I loose leash walk most days minimum 1.5 hours per dog (broken in 3 walks, individually). I shoot for 3 hours 1 hour each walk. Yes 6 hours a days walking. 

We are mastering loose leash walking and structured play nothing else. For me with my more difficult dog it's a game changer. I can't believe the difference. 

Leash breaking him and setting the criteria was difficult. Some days - some walks - were highly frustrating. He is 5 so yea bad habits and i gave up walking him years ago. 

It's paying off though. I can't believe how soft, focused and respectful he has gotten on leash. He even started checking in with me a few days ago. At first he would just look at my treat hand lol. Today he started looking at me. I'm burning through treats like crazy love it. ❤ 

I don't know if they mentioned it. Haz talks about when a dog is pulling on the leash they don't have room in their minds for you or to sit or to come. Totally focused on everything else. For me this holds very true. Learning alot about my dogs thanks to Haz.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

It would be helpful in the future to state at the very beginning of a post that it is Not directed at anyone in particular.


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

jarn said:


> Toby is unhappy about the cost but on board with doing the work, so that's a relief.


I'm glad to hear you're both on board and willing to do the work. Hopefully, Shield K9 can help you. I know someone who took their online course and did very well.

Haz just put this video out recently reiterating the need for owners to be part of the solution:






Good luck jarn.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

BdeAngelo said:


> Definitely agree with you and Larry Krohn on this.


Larry was one of YT I searched through on videos about living with dogs. Found some very helpful simple things that made big impacts. 

People often say dogs need leadership, structure and management. All true - expressing exactly the what and how - it's what is truly helpful.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

BdeAngelo said:


> I'm glad to hear you're both on board and willing to do the work. Hopefully, Shield K9 can help you. I know someone who took their online course and did very well.
> 
> Haz just put this video out recently reiterating the need for owners to be part of the solution:
> 
> ...


Thanks! I think we'll get there. I'm very excited. Toby really only plays fetch with the dogs (well, Agis; Neb is 14 and likes eating grass, and Xerxes likes running in circles and digging, which Toby does, to be fair, let them do, but if it was up to him they'd stay with a 400m radius of our building with occasional hikes) - that's what he likes to do. He says I train them (apparently ineffectively heh) because 'I like it' and I'm like, yeah, Sweetie, that's partly why, but not the only reason...before we even went out there I was like 'We BOTH have to work with him, we BOTH have to daily put in the work, we BOTH have to commit' so I hope that happens. 

To be fair, he has been struggling with depression, he used to like taking the dogs places, but for a long time now I've been doing all of that - except when I was sick. But - we hiked last Sunday (he took Agis and Xerxes and I did a Neb-paced meander), we hiked today after Shield - he's actually a bit more interested in things. We're camping nearby next weekend, so he's going to take Agis for a run Saturday and I'll hike with the other two and then take Xerxes for a run when he and Agis are back. And we're going to run with Agis on some trails near Shield Thursday after our session. I am feeling better about all of our prospects!

I think I saw that video! I watched it when I had insomnia the other night after I emailed Shield again and was like 'HALP' then I went and watched a bunch of YouTube heh. 

@Apex1 he's mixed with the loose leash walking - if we stop using a prong though that'll be interesting. I suspect he's a bit collar-wise and even though it's not necessarily working for corrections I think it reinforces staying loose leash. She did say it's helpful for obedience but I think for the next bit we'll see what taking him out without it is like. She said flat collar, I've always used martingales for all the dogs because I worry about someone slipping out. Yes I have anxiety haha...

But she said something similar too. And when we see a dog, I said, I want him to stay neutral and just walk by ignoring it - right now we put him in a sit or shorten up - she said, a sit is a bandaid, he's still staring down the other dog. It's true. On our little hike we met head on two dogs who were...excitable...so I had him sit while they went by and though they were lunging he did sit and stay sitting, we still had the prong on so I popped him for staring but when they were two feet away lunging I kinda couldn't blame him at that point so left that. Dunno if that was right or not - I shall ask Thursday!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Keep us updated on how it goes. Sounds like a good start. 
It always fascinated me that people want their dogs trained but don't want to do the work.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Could you have controlled Agis in the lobby on a flat collar?
I was going to say something else I can not remember 😐
Clicked post accidentally


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Sabis mom said:


> Keep us updated on how it goes. Sounds like a good start.
> It always fascinated me that people want their dogs trained but don't want to do the work.


Weirdly, Toby grew up with dogs and I didn't - but he said to me tonight he always saw himself as a cat person until we moved into together (as I had Luc, Teagan and Neb - got Neb just after we restarted dating again - we'd been broken up for a year, after dating for 3 months...we've been together continuously now, for, well, 14 years! Imagine! We'd been friends before we ever got involved though). But anyways, once we started dating, he was like, hey, dog! - he'd take Luc for runs - I remember once he took Luc for a long run - just 16k, not long long - along the waterfront and was like 'Did you know he needs to stop to drink?' (Me: uh, yeah, it's spring and he's black and has fur). But I knew Toby was a good fit because other guys who were interested were intimidated like heck by Teagan - Toby walked into the house 'oh hey yeah you're a dog what's up' and she was in LOVE from the get-go. I found the whole thing quite amusing.

@Apex1 Well we took them outside this afternoon around 4:30 - just in the yard - and used a flat collar for Agis. All was fine - he pulled, but not as much as I expected - there was one dog that was lunging and barking from the other side of the driveway that he didn't like (he and Xerxes were hopelessly tangled at that point as they'd been rolling on top of each other/the same patch of apparently VERY interesting grass) but he watched/stared (sigh) and when I grabbed his collar without me saying anything he just sat and stayed sitting even once I let go. I'm not sure how much I should be working on stuff this week leading up to the session given I think everything will largely get retrained. But I would expect he'd've been the same on the flat? I don't know. I do think the prong amps him up sometimes, even if it gives me psychological security how much of that is false I'm not sure.


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## 3ymum (Oct 12, 2021)

Looking forward for your update, especially after the Thursday session. Hope things go well for you both.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks! Toby TRAINED Agis tonight - I mean, I'd let fun stuff like 'crawl' and 'spin' slide so I thought he'd have fun with that and he did. Are they important commands? Obviously not. Is having that training/listening relationship between them very good? Yes. 

And Toby managed to get him (and Agis) out for a trail run this morning! What is happening in this family haha. I am really happy for the both of them. I ran with Xerxes myself. 

And now I'm off to take Agis for a training walk!


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

jarn said:


> Thanks! Toby TRAINED Agis tonight - I mean, I'd let fun stuff like 'crawl' and 'spin' slide so I thought he'd have fun with that and he did. Are they important commands? Obviously not. Is having that training/listening relationship between them very good? Yes.
> 
> And Toby managed to get him (and Agis) out for a trail run this morning! What is happening in this family haha. I am really happy for the both of them. I ran with Xerxes myself.
> 
> And now I'm off to take Agis for a training walk!


Sounds like things are coming along!!


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Zeppy said:


> Sounds like things are coming along!!


I generally run with Les Xerx and walk the boys (just got back from a quick morning walk) - but it just shows (dogs aside) that Toby is doing better. I am thrilled. I'm really hoping he keeps at it.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I am happy to update on our first session that we had last night. We're training with Sal, and we both very much like him. Direct, clear, not only showed us how Agis needs to change but what we need to do as handlers to create that change.

We've basically allowed him to settle into a place/wire his brain so that his default is the tense staring and aggression. Showed us how to correct on the prong (properly) and while he might move quickly to an e-collar as I suck at correcting him hard (I don't think Toby's good at it either) even my walk with him this morning was an absolute pleasure. And the wrist flick corrections are improving! 

Last night we took the dogs all out together, which was something we shouldn't have done while he's rewiring. Camping this weekend should be interesting! He did great with the dogs outside, Xerxes reacted at one then ran into Agis who told Xerxes to go away, but not at the strange dog!!!!! There was a dog in the lobby that Xerxes reacted at so Agis did and I don't think my corrections were hard enough, but - Rome wasn't built in a day. Even that was BETTER. 

His loose leash is SO much better.

We took him for a run right after the session at Shield at a nearby trail. Normally he'd be out front pulling (I allow him to do this; after all, skijoring I WANT him to) but this time he ran in the new prong and wow - I think I had to correct him...twice? Two times too many, I know, but I have never seen him be that loose leash/body aware on a run. He wasn't always turning to look at me but I could see his ears turn and him listen (to me gasping for air haha...not sure why I ran that fast).

The drive was a nightmare - Siri took us on dumb ways so we didn't go how we normally would to get out of the city from Toby's work downtown. Took us 2:15hrs to get there (20 minutes to go the first 500m as the crow flies - I really don't know how people commute in cars to downtown everyday and not lose their minds) but as Agis and I had gone to pick up Toby from our place - believe it or not that was the fastest way - he and I were in the car three hours. Took us 55 minutes to get home and we went to a Wendy's drive thru so yeah. Not the best driving experience.

But we go back on the 19th! Very pleased!


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

jarn said:


> I am happy to update on our first session that we had last night. We're training with Sal, and we both very much like him. Direct, clear, not only showed us how Agis needs to change but what we need to do as handlers to create that change.
> 
> We've basically allowed him to settle into a place/wire his brain so that his default is the tense staring and aggression. Showed us how to correct on the prong (properly) and while he might move quickly to an e-collar as I suck at correcting him hard (I don't think Toby's good at it either) even my walk with him this morning was an absolute pleasure. And the wrist flick corrections are improving!
> 
> ...


Great improvements already!! whereabouts are you guys camping this weekend? All 3 pups are coming?


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Zeppy said:


> Great improvements already!! whereabouts are you guys camping this weekend? All 3 pups are coming?


Just a conservation area near Hamilton - Valens Lake. We hiked there last weekend after Agis's assessment, and they have campsites so figured what the heck. Hopefully a faster drive then yesterday (it can hardly fail) - I have loaded the car up (just need to put the food in, and gas up (gulp)).


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

jarn said:


> Just a conservation area near Hamilton - Valens Lake. We hiked there last weekend after Agis's assessment, and they have campsites so figured what the heck. Hopefully a faster drive then yesterday (it can hardly fail) - I have loaded the car up (just need to put the food in, and gas up (gulp)).


Awesome!! Sounds like a nice area. 
Yep.. gas is hectic right now. I was able to gas up in Wahta for 189 this morning on my way to the cottage. Its 212 back home 😬


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Yeah I paid 211.9. $72 for...2/3 of a tank if I'm remembering. Thank goodness we just have a station wagon.

BUT!!!!!!!

I just took Agis out to buy ice (store in our complex). Figured the more practice we get in the better. Our walk this morning went well. He did good, coming back in there was a dog ahead. It was still in the lobby when we got there, so we waited - he looked, and when he lowered his head I popped, he looked at me and then relaxed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was so good we got invited to share the elevator by the other owner (I said no). The next elevator that came had a dog come off of it and ZERO reaction.

I know, it's not like he's cured, but I can't tell you how pleased I am by that lobby experience. And loose-leash the whole time!


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Way to go. Its rewarding when you see the dog relax. They become really with you. 

When I really dedicated myself to the loose leash it was so ugly at first. Not many chances for rewards. We are sticking it out and I'm burning through rewards now. Just taking long leashed walks I've learned so much about my dogs. I think I may finally be getting it. 

I have a trainer coming next Friday been scheduled for a while now. I really pray this one is the one. 

Happy for you. Keep on keeping on. 

I don't know if you listen to Larry Khron - he has done some good live chats lately stuff I need to hear. I hadn't listened to him in a couple years. I'm really happy I started listening again. Good stuff

Happy camping! Enjoy


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I hope the trainer works out @Apex1 - let us know! Fingers crossed for you both. 

We're not 100%, but we got back from camping and for the most part he was good. A bit mixed with dogs walking by the campsite, but very good on walks and hikes - went by a number of dogs on trail completely loose-leash without blinking. Interestingly, him being calmer is helping Xerxes be calmer as well. Not a shock, I mean, they feed into each other, but the extent to which took me aback. 

When we took them out at 5pm this afternoon (back at home) I opened the door in the stairwell (we're on the 3rd floor, so do use the stairs even when not trying to avoid dogs heh) onto the dog that he hates so much while I was about to go down the stairs WITH Agis - the dog yelped, I didn't know which dog it was, but when we got outside I went around the building to apologize and yeah the dog he hates. It explains why he was so on edge going down the stairs, that and the yelp. But he was fine once outside. 

I'll check out Larry Krohn! Thanks!


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