# Dog shows.....Can I show my dog?



## Jessiewessie99

I was thinking about show my Black GSD, Tanner. But he is from a shelter, he was brought in as a stray to the shelter, and is neutered. I know I have to get him registered first. But I would like to know all the details on what is allowed, what isn't. And what I have to do before I register him.

He is microchipped. He is a neutered, he is registered with SEACCA(for ownership) He was at the SPCA-LA in Long Beach. He is around 4 1/2 years old. I know alot of people have beautiful dogs, but alot of people say he is drop dead gorgeous, and don't believe he came from a shelter. People ask who his breeder is and who his parents were.Even if he can't be in dog shows, I will love him no matter what.

Here are some pics of Tanner:








































































I basically want to know what I would need to do to get involved. If there is any dog shows just for fun, that is great too. No I don't expect Tanner to be in a Westminister dog show.lol. I have always thought about getting into dog shows.


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## diana72805

I would like to know the answer to this one too! Our dog's story is weird. He supposedly came from a breeder, but the owner's kid was allergic so they were giving him up. His 'breeder contract' said he's reg with CKC (worthless, I hear) but no certificates. When we called said breeder, she said he was part of a litter her friend had. Probably an accidental litter or BYB. Why she signed his breeder papers I don't know. Anyways, so I'm interested in these answers too. JessieWessie - I think we can agree that we'll love our dogs regardless of if we can show them or not! 

Sorry, no useful info on this one...


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## emjworks05

Dogs have to be registered in whatever registry you are wanting to show them in, for example if you want to show him in AKC then he would have to have full registration to participate in conformation shows. I can tell you now that since he IS neutered he cannot be shown in conformation shows. I know that you can get something called a ILP(?) from AKC so that you can participate in agility or rally, sports like this that AKC offers. I am not really familiar with this but you can go to AKC.org and find out more information. Hope this helps!

I just wanted to add: I think hes gorgeous!


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## Jessiewessie99

diana72805 said:


> I would like to know the answer to this one too! Our dog's story is weird. He supposedly came from a breeder, but the owner's kid was allergic so they were giving him up. His 'breeder contract' said he's reg with CKC (worthless, I hear) but no certificates. When we called said breeder, she said he was part of a litter her friend had. Probably an accidental litter or BYB. Why she signed his breeder papers I don't know. Anyways, so I'm interested in these answers too. JessieWessie - I think we can agree that we'll love our dogs regardless of if we can show them or not!
> 
> Sorry, no useful info on this one...


 
Well we will both get our answers lol.


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## emjworks05

This link will give you the info that you need: American Kennel Club - Dog Registration Questions


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## Andaka

All I know about is AKC (American Kennel Club). To be registered by AKC, both parents have to be AKC registered or your dog has to have a foreign registration.

To show in conformation-type shows, such as Westminster, a dog would have to be AKC registered. To compete in AKC performance events such as agility, obedience, rally or tracking, a dog must be registered or have an ILP (Indefinite Listing Priviledge) number. To get an ILP you must send in photos of your dog from both the side and the front and have a vet's certificate proving the dog was spayed or neutered. The AKC has also recently admitted mixed breed dogs to be able to compete in the companion events such as obedience. I don't have any info on that program, but it is on the website.


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## Chris Wild

He cannot participate in conformation shows because #1 he is neutered and #2 he is not registered, and can't get full registration with an unknown background.

However he could compete in any performance event such as obedience, tracking, agility, rally, etc... by obtaining ILP/PAL registration through whichever organization you wish to compete in.


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## Jessiewessie99

Not to sound rude, but I think I remember saying, I know he won't be in Westminster or any other big name dog show.

Tanner really doesn't care much for toys and agility stuff. He is very protective. Maybe schutzland may be good.Idk about that. I signed him up for Animal Assisted Therapy, but when they had to assess him, he didn't pass. When they brought in another dog, he barked(once, I quickly corrected him.) He also couldn't stay for 30 seconds. He whined, and ran very fast too me. He likes to be with people, and be the center of attention.

Any competitions like that?lol.


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## Liesje

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Not to sound rude, but I think I remember saying, I know he won't be in Westminster or any other big name dog show.


It doesn't matter, there are not different levels of registration based on the size of the shows. The bottom line is to compete in ANY conformation show he must have AKC *full* registration, and as Chris pointed out he is not eligible for that.

The UKC has an altered class and I have shown in it, but I'm not sure what the criteria are. I show a fully registered (AKC and UKC) female that was a UKC Champion before she was altered. I think you still need full UKC registration (which requires full or limited AKC registration, which Tanner is ineligible for).

You could always take ring training classes with him and borrow someone else's dog or get a new dog to show. I've practiced ring training with dogs I don't show.


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## tkarsjens

Liesje said:


> The UKC has an altered class and I have shown in it, but I'm not sure what the criteria are.


The dog still has to be fully registered with UKC.


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## tkarsjens

Basically here's the thing with conformation - before you can enter a conformation show, you have to have proof that your dog is purebred. The way this works is that they need to be registered with the registry putting on the show and have proof of their pedigree and lineage. This way, they are guaranteed to be purebred. This is important for conformation since they are evaluating breeding stock, and you want your breeding stock to be purebred.

If you get a dog from a shelter or rescue or from anywhere else without papers, you can't prove he or she is a purebred dog and you don't know the lineage, so you can't show them in conformation.

If you're interested in showing your dog though, there are so many other things you can show in besides conformation - rally, agility, obedience, herding, tracking to name a few. 

Also, please don't be under the impression that conformation doesn't require training. It does - just like all the other events. So just take the effort you would have put in training for conformation and instead train for one of the events you can show in.

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com


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## Jessiewessie99

tkarsjens said:


> Basically here's the thing with conformation - before you can enter a conformation show, you have to have proof that your dog is purebred. The way this works is that they need to be registered with the registry putting on the show and have proof of their pedigree and lineage. This way, they are guaranteed to be purebred. This is important for conformation since they are evaluating breeding stock, and you want your breeding stock to be purebred.
> 
> If you get a dog from a shelter or rescue or from anywhere else without papers, you can't prove he or she is a purebred dog and you don't know the lineage, so you can't show them in conformation.
> 
> If you're interested in showing your dog though, there are so many other things you can show in besides conformation - rally, agility, obedience, herding, tracking to name a few.
> 
> Also, please don't be under the impression that conformation doesn't require training. It does - just like all the other events. So just take the effort you would have put in training for conformation and instead train for one of the events you can show in.
> 
> Tracie
> www.atlaskennels.com



I know very well there is a training. Not all dogs can prance around a ring with a gazillion people and cameras flashing, and all that commotion without some sort of proper training.


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## codmaster

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I know very well there is a training. Not all dogs can prance around a ring with a gazillion people and cameras flashing, and all that commotion without some sort of proper training.


Probably might want to try it and THEN see what you think about conformation showing. 

It is a LOT more complex and challenging than most folks think - there is a real reason why many people who are serious about conformation showing will hire a professional handler.


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## codmaster

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I was thinking about show my Black GSD, Tanner. But he is from a shelter, he was brought in as a stray to the shelter, and is neutered. I know I have to get him registered first. But I would like to know all the details on what is allowed, what isn't. And what I have to do before I register him.
> 
> He is microchipped. He is a neutered, he is registered with SEACCA(for ownership) He was at the SPCA-LA in Long Beach. He is around 4 1/2 years old. I know alot of people have beautiful dogs, but alot of people say he is drop dead gorgeous, and don't believe he came from a shelter. People ask who his breeder is and who his parents were.Even if he can't be in dog shows, I will love him no matter what.
> 
> Here are some pics of Tanner:
> 
> I basically want to know what I would need to do to get involved. If there is any dog shows just for fun, that is great too. No I don't expect Tanner to be in a Westminister dog show.lol. I have always thought about getting into dog shows.


 
Can't show a neutered dog in conformation in AKC shows.


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## codmaster

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Not to sound rude, but I think I remember saying, I know he won't be in Westminster or any other big name dog show.


 
Or even in little AKC shows in conformation - neutered and not able to be recistered.


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## selzer

Your dog is a nice pet. He cannot compete in any conformation ring because he is alterred. Sorry. You might have been able to enter him in fun matches, but I think that his being alterred is still a problem even for that. Someone else can tell me if I am wrong. Fun matches are AKC and a great place to get your feet wet in showing conformation. But handling classes prior would benefit you there as well, and as he is not showable, it really does not make sense to pursue this. 

You have tried animal assisted therapy, but did not pass the test. Why not sign up for classes that complete with a CGC test. You will practice each week on the ten tests. One of those test does include your dog not barking or carrying on when you see another dog. With practice, you can probably overcome this. 

The Canine Good Citizen test are the first ten tests required to be certified by Therapy Dog International. It is a good place to start. 

After your CGC, you can get a PAL number and train for obedience, rally, agility, tracking, herding, flyball, and more. You do not NEED a CGC for these, but if your dog cannot pass these ten tests, then he really has no business at a show. It may not be the most complete temperament test, but it is a minimum standard. 

As for schutzhund, I would not encourage you to do it at this point. The first thing you need for schutzhund is solid nerves. I do not know if your dog has solid nerves or not, but I do not think it is a good place to begin to evaluate your dog and your ability to train your dog. If you have an excellent trainer, no doubt they can steer you right and teach you properly as you go along. But it seems like you are starting at the very begining and evaluating whether your training source is good or not would be a huge question. For this reason, and with this pet, I would suggest going down the traditional obedience path or starting out with Rally -- after you get a CGC. 

It is great fun once you get started.


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## Jessiewessie99

codmaster said:


> Can't show a neutered dog in conformation in AKC shows.



I got that! i know that! why do think i asked about other things he can do?


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## Jessiewessie99

selzer said:


> Your dog is a nice pet. He cannot compete in any conformation ring because he is alterred. Sorry. You might have been able to enter him in fun matches, but I think that his being alterred is still a problem even for that. Someone else can tell me if I am wrong. Fun matches are AKC and a great place to get your feet wet in showing conformation. But handling classes prior would benefit you there as well, and as he is not showable, it really does not make sense to pursue this.
> 
> You have tried animal assisted therapy, but did not pass the test. Why not sign up for classes that complete with a CGC test. You will practice each week on the ten tests. One of those test does include your dog not barking or carrying on when you see another dog. With practice, you can probably overcome this.
> 
> The Canine Good Citizen test are the first ten tests required to be certified by Therapy Dog International. It is a good place to start.
> 
> After your CGC, you can get a PAL number and train for obedience, rally, agility, tracking, herding, flyball, and more. You do not NEED a CGC for these, but if your dog cannot pass these ten tests, then he really has no business at a show. It may not be the most complete temperament test, but it is a minimum standard.
> 
> As for schutzhund, I would not encourage you to do it at this point. The first thing you need for schutzhund is solid nerves. I do not know if your dog has solid nerves or not, but I do not think it is a good place to begin to evaluate your dog and your ability to train your dog. If you have an excellent trainer, no doubt they can steer you right and teach you properly as you go along. But it seems like you are starting at the very begining and evaluating whether your training source is good or not would be a huge question. For this reason, and with this pet, I would suggest going down the traditional obedience path or starting out with Rally -- after you get a CGC.
> 
> It is great fun once you get started.


So CGC, then do rally? What exactly is Rally?And what is schutzhund exactly? From looking at pics and videos, does it train your dog to be more protective? I am thinking they use this in the military and police force.

And for Agility(I am thinking about it for Molly) you have to join a club, and register with AKC? I think we will do CGC for both of the dogs.


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## MaggieRoseLee

These sites should help

Schutzhund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Schutzhund FAQs

Dog Owner's Guide: Rally Obedience

Dog agility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know you don't *HAVE* to register with AKC for anything if you just want to take classes and learn to do rally/obedience/tracking/herding/agility.

For ANY venue, if you later want to enter any trials you need to register your dog in that venue. Be it AKC, or USDAA, or NADAC, or.....


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## Jessiewessie99

oh ok. thanks. so many organizations with initials its hard to know what to use what for what.


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## codmaster

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I got that! i know that! why do think i asked about other things he can do?


I don't know. Why did you? My guess would be you wanted to know what other things he could do?


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## Jessiewessie99

codmaster said:


> I don't know. Why did you? My guess would be you wanted to know what other things he could do?


um yea! please read before posting things that have already been said.


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## codmaster

Jessiewessie99 said:


> um yea! please read before posting things that have already been said.


Sorry jessie, I was just trying to answer your last question. I apologize if you were upset with my answer.

Are you all set now with where you can show your neutered unregistered dog?


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## Jessiewessie99

it gets annoying when someone says it for the 10th time.


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## DJEtzel

I plan on showing my (soon to be neutered), currently unregistered GSD that I did not acquire from a breeder. He's only 7 months so I can't neuter and register him yet, but I will be going through AKCs alternative listing to get him into shows. He'll have his CGC by the end of the summer to prepare him as well, and we're going to dive head-first into rally, then take some more classes and go on to obedience. 

It's definitely possible, so long as you have the proper training and get your dog registered, which isn't a big deal. (unless you don't have $35)


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## JakodaCD OA

first thing I would do, is go with obedience, once you have your obedience down, all other activities fall into place.

Find a training center, take competition obedience classes, practice at matches, (if they are available in your area) and then enter trials when he is ready. 

You can do Rally, which is a more fun type obedience, but you need to have an obedient dog as well, you could do herding, tracking, schutzhund I would think is out, you need a huge time committment and most dogs are not cut out for it.

You can compete in AKC, UKC, however, you don't have to have the dog registered with those orgs to go to classes and start training. 

It is NOT cheap ,,you'll pay for classes, you'll pay to enter matches, and you'll pay to enter trials. (akc trials are usually 25-30$ per class)..

Start with classes and go from there.


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## Castlemaid

Jessie, I think what is confusing to a lot of people (and to me, also), is that you keep referring to "showing" your dog. To me, (and to others), when we talk of showing a dog, we are in general refering to conformation shows. The other venues where Tanner could enter and compete in, I think of them in terms of _performance events_ (like obedience, rally, agility, Schutzhund, etc). 

So I think you are asking about entering Tanner in performance events, but are confusing people by refering to performance events as showing - which is a different thing.  

So to recap, NO! You CAN'T show your neutered, unregistered, rescue dog! (Sorry, couldn't resist  ), but you can get an ILP number, and enter and compete in a number of performance events. And you don't need any kind of registration number whatsoever to do Schutzhund, and you can earn Schutzhund Tracking and Obedience titles seperately from the full SchH titles, which is what I have been doing with my rescued mix breed.


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## Liesje

Jessiewessie99 said:


> oh ok. thanks. so many organizations with initials its hard to know what to use what for what.


It's often not really a matter of picking one, but what is actually available to you. I now do almost all my competition through the UKC since their headquarters are about an hour away and there is no shortage of events here. I also do CPE agility because my friend hosts a big trial twice a year. I have nothing against NADAC and USDAA, but UKC, AKC, and CPE events are what happen around me so that's what I compete in.

I would focus more on getting started in training and worry less about all the organizations and registries. When it's time to enter trials, you'll just register with whatever one holds trials in your area.


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## MaggieRoseLee

> I would focus more on getting started in training and worry less about all the organizations and registries. When it's time to enter trials, you'll just register with whatever one holds trials in your area.


:thumbup: EXACTLY once you start classes your instructor will be a huge help with your and your dog's talents and where to direct them!


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## selzer

Yes, go to obedience/rally classes first. Keep an eye on the dog and see what he likes to do. Some dogs are really more athletic, they will be great agility dogs, others will do better at other events. I like to watch my dogs an pick something for them that I think they would enjoy. 

Rally is supposed to be a opening to obedience or agility. It is not a cake walk, but you do not have to be as perfect. I mean, the dog does not have to be in perfect position, and you can make double commands and talk to your dog in Rally. There are more exercises, but you do not have to leave your dog on a stay or have someone go over them while you stand and watch. 

In rally, you enter the ring, and the judge asks if you are ready, you say yes and he then tells you to begin. You then follow the path of the signs in numbered order performing whatever each sign says to do. A sign may be halt sit, or halt, sit, walk around dog, or halt sit, down, walk around dog. These and others are stationary signs. There are also change of direction signs, where you turn left or right make a u-turn or an left u turn or a left about turn, there are 270s (3/4 turn right and left) and 360s (full circle right and left) as well. There are also spirals and serpentines where you walk around cones. All of this should be done on a loose lead with the dog under control. It is timed, and the time is only use in the event of a tie. You start out with 100 points, and points are deducted for tight leads, out of position, handler error, etc. 

Obedience can be easier or harder depending on where you are coming from. If you train for obedience, Rally should be a cake walk, but not really the other way around. In obedience, you must be painfully clear about what signals you are giving your dog, you cannot give a signal for come and call the dog. You cannot tell the dog twice what you want him to do. When your dog sits in front, you can tell him to finish or wave him to finish, whether he goes right or left is ok so long as he ends up in heel position, but you really cannot move to help him. 

Rally is much more relaxed in that sense. It is a good opening forum for dog training. No pinch collars or head collars, no training in the ring, no harsh commands or corrections allowed. It is fun for the dogs and for their owners. 

Schutzhund is a compilation of obedience, tracking, and protection, it includes agility. I am sure you can get great info off of the sites.


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## Jessiewessie99

Rally sort of seems like Dressage for horses, like telling your horse to do certain moves and stuff the reins.

Rally might be good for Tanner, he is pretty good at those commands, mostly if treats are involved....lol.


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## selzer

I hope this comes out ok, it is a miniature horse or pony doing Rally.

YouTube - Mini Horse doing Rally Obedience


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## DJEtzel

Rally is a really fun, easy going performance sport that I think is easiest to get into, and allows more error than others. I think it'd be great to get you going in the show world.


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## Jessiewessie99

Hopefully Tanner's big butt wont get in the way.lol


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## DJEtzel

lol, even if it does, rally judges are a lot more lenient than say, obedience judges. Very relaxed atmosphere.


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## Jessiewessie99

i loved the pony!lol

he is just a super fluffy dog who loves to please.


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## DJEtzel

sounds like he'd be great for rally then. 

Check out some classes and get going with it!


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## Jessiewessie99

I might also do that CGC.


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## DJEtzel

CGC is great for any dog to get. I wanted to get it for my pup a few months ago, but missed the sign up day for the test, then he started going through his butthead stage, along with becoming dog reactive, so now I have to wait till he's at least a year or two I'm thinking.. "/

If your dog is ready for it, the sooner the better, it's certainly not hard, but a good thing to have under your belt!


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## Jessiewessie99

I looked up the CGC, some are in cities near me! thank goodness. The Rally, are kinda far.lol

Does your dog need to be AKC registered to do the CGC?


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## DJEtzel

Nope. Any mixed breed can take the CGC test. Any age, too, I believe, and it doesn't matter if they're altered or not.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> Nope. Any mixed breed can take the CGC test. Any age, too, I believe, and it doesn't matter if they're altered or not.


oh ok. i thought since it was thru the AKC, i thought they had to be AKC registered.


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## selzer

No. They do not have to be purebred either. So if your dog is registered, the CGC does not follow the name on pedigrees. For Example, Arwen Evenstar XVI, CD, RN; but the CGC will not make it. Not that it matters if your dog isn't registered, but their answer as to why they will not add it to pedigrees is that unregistered dogs can take the test. 

However, they do send you a nice certificate, just like a title certificate if you send your five bucks along with the test form. 

It is definitely worth the cost of taking the test -- usually ten dollars. And the extra five is ok really. But if you have a place that has classes -- six to eight once a week classes that prepare you for the test, or if you can join a 4-H group that is going for it, it is definitely a good idea. Supervised separation is tough for many dogs, and classes give the opportunity for the dog to be held by another person while you move farther away.


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## Jessiewessie99

selzer said:


> No. They do not have to be purebred either. So if your dog is registered, the CGC does not follow the name on pedigrees. For Example, Arwen Evenstar XVI, CD, RN; but the CGC will not make it. Not that it matters if your dog isn't registered, but their answer as to why they will not add it to pedigrees is that unregistered dogs can take the test.
> 
> However, they do send you a nice certificate, just like a title certificate if you send your five bucks along with the test form.
> 
> It is definitely worth the cost of taking the test -- usually ten dollars. And the extra five is ok really. But if you have a place that has classes -- six to eight once a week classes that prepare you for the test, or if you can join a 4-H group that is going for it, it is definitely a good idea. Supervised separation is tough for many dogs, and classes give the opportunity for the dog to be held by another person while you move farther away.



Oh ok. I saw on a site I am looking for classes of all sorts in my area, they said we can retake the test for 5 bucks..

Is Arwen Evenstar named after the Lord Of The Rings elf?


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## selzer

Yes she was. My sixth grade teacher read us The Hobbit. Since then, I read The Lord of the Rings at least once a year. It is probably the favorite of all the books I have read. I appreciate a lot of the classics, but for an excellent adventure, the LOTR trilogy is just awesome.

The movies are, well, they did about as good a job as they could, I suppose.


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## Jessiewessie99

I like Legolas...:wub:


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## DJEtzel

I want to name a dog lego... :shrug:


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## LaRen616

My friend has a Doberman named Arwen. 

I love LOTR


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## selzer

My friend has a Doberman named Zephyr. She calls him Zee. I cannot picture a Doberman Arwen. Not Arwen.


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## Jessiewessie99

I would think of a yellow Lab named Legolas, its the blonde hair.lol


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## MyboyTank

emjworks05 said:


> Dogs have to be registered in whatever registry you are wanting to show them in, for example if you want to show him in AKC then he would have to have full registration to participate in conformation shows. I can tell you now that since he IS neutered he cannot be shown in conformation shows. I know that you can get something called a ILP(?) from AKC so that you can participate in agility or rally, sports like this that AKC offers. I am not really familiar with this but you can go to AKC.org and find out more information. Hope this helps!
> 
> I just wanted to add: I think hes gorgeous!


I think She means "PAL" for AKC showing and no conformation.


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## Andaka

It used to be known as an ILP (Indefinite Listing Privilege).


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## MyboyTank

Oh ok cool, Im sorry then. I hope she found the info she needed.


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