# Is this a flaw?



## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

Awhile ago I posted about the bloodlines of my boys, and there were one or two members who doubted that their father was as red as he looked in this picture: http://hausmerkel.com/Irsus.htm

Well, now I am starting to notice that they have a lot of red in their saddle. It's not noticible in their pictures, but in person when the light shines on their coat, you can see the red clearly. Zeus has it more prominent, but they both have it. Is this a flaw?


----------



## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

It would be considered poor pigment. Not a flaw but not desired per the standards as it refers to rich pigment as being desirable. It seems quite prevalent in the German Show lines. Almost that people misunderstand the rich red for being "strong color/pigment" when in actuality it isn't either.


----------



## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks for the insight.


----------



## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: GSDOwner2008Awhile ago I posted about the bloodlines of my boys, and there were one or two members who doubted that their father was as red as he looked in this picture: http://hausmerkel.com/Irsus.htm


That would is probably because a lot of showline folks MAKE the dog look redder in pictures than it is in REAL life. If you look at that picture, the grass is a funny color, the handlers hands are red, and the clouds are pink. So either there was some "doctoring" done to the picture or it was taken at sunrise or sunset.


----------



## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

I really don't think there was doctoring to the picture, and if there was, it was minor because my boys are VERY red. I know you can't tell from pictures of my boys, but I assure you, they are as red as a GSD gets. I get that red (the guy's hand) when I get overheated, it's very hot in TX and that guys was wearing heavy clothing, so I doubt their was much doctoring, if any at all.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDThat would is probably because a lot of showline folks MAKE the dog look redder in pictures than it is in REAL life.


I don't HAVE to make my dogs look redder in pictures than they do in real life, my camera does that, just on the auto settings. Even in person certain kinds of light make them look ridiculously red, I notice that all the time. But other times they'll look really red in a picture when I remembered them looking pretty normal in person. 

Not to say that that sort of thing doesn't happen - I have no idea, and I expect some people probably do bump up the color saturation. But I have undoctored pics of Dena as a puppy where the grass is that same almost fluorescent shade of green as in that link. I often have to lighten up pics of my dogs, but I never increased color saturation - they'd look like cartoons, lol!


----------



## CookieTN (Sep 14, 2008)

My dog's color look lighter in certain types of light and I often have to enhance my pictures because my camera tends to make them dark.
It looks like the sire may not be that red, but JMO.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

i actually don't think he looks THAT red if you're basing it on his color and not markings. the first picture looks nice, the 2nd looks a little saturated, but since he doesnt have any sort of masking it could be throwing people (me) off. D&K are probably the reddest dogs ive seen, and i'm basing that on photos and in person. tilden is red, but sort of a bright orange red, where as D&K are a deeper brown red. the dog in the photos looks a typical black and red that i see on most websites... not shocking.

also, to the OP - is the red in their saddle that you're talking about a bitch stripe? if so, no - its not desirable in males... but pretty common (so accepted?) in females. tilden did not have one when i got him at 10 months. by a year it was showing a bit if i lifted his hair. this past year (he'll be 2 in dec) its been becoming more and more prominent. everytime i brush or bathe him he seems to get lighter. it'll be interesting to see what this winter brings.


----------



## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

Apollo and Zeus have a little bit of a bitch stripe, but they have red in their saddle. If the sun shines on them the right way, or I shine a light on their coat, you can clearly see the red. Most pictures I post are from my crappy digital camera and they are washed out, but the nicer pics outside really show their red in the face. In the evening, that exaggerates their red. I can't find a picture of the red in their saddle, but maybe I can get one.

Evening:










In the house










Washed out


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

They're both young and their adult coat isn't 'done yet' - I love that picture of them in the crate together.


----------



## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks, those pictures are actually from a few months ago.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Can I ask a question in this thread? Do saddled west German show line dogs have black undercoat in their saddle. Maybe a dumb question, but my Kenya is a sable working line, so rub her backwards even on her tail or saddle and you will see white. My mutt Coke is black and red, and his undercoat IS black. People always comment on how "rich" his color/coat is and I explain it looks more sleek and rich than Kenya's because his undercoat is the same color as the top coat. My pup will be a west German show line. I don't care either way, I just wondered.

As for the red, I believe it. I've seen some of my breeder's dogs in person (but never thought to rub the saddle backwards to answer my above question) and some of them are red. Coke's red markings are probably the richest red I've ever seen in person (maybe not quite as rich as Dena and Keefer, but richer than the west German GSDs I've seen). He's not a GSD (well, maybe part) but still proof that yes, a dog CAN be THAT red!


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Liesje, my dogs both have a black undercoat. They have a fairly minimal bitch stripe (Dena's is more pronounced than Keefer's), but even that hair is only lighter in the middle of the strand, with black at the base and the tip. So if you  rub the fur backwards everything near the skin, undercoat and guard hairs alike, is black.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

^ditto. not AS black... sort of combs out drk grey. Tilds has got a pretty pronounced b-stripe and as CM said, the roots are still black.


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

My girl has a very pronounced bitch stripe alone her back and relatively little black in terms of a saddle. The undercoat where she is black combs out as a dark grey color, not a true black.


----------

