# Confident dog, what is it?Neutering and confidence?



## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Hello

I keep seeing people describing their dogs as confident and wonder what it is exactly, a confident dog. What type of behaviour a confident dog has? Can neutering affect confidence?
Why I'm asking this..My dog is 15 months old and it is time to make a decision to neuter or not to neuter, I get frowned upon by many dog owners who think its irresponsible to keep a male entire unless he is a stud. 
But I remember a session we had with a trainer (who looked very knowledgeable) during which he said something like "do not neuter him, you dont want to destroy this confidence". 
Neuter or not to neuter, that is the question


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## NerdicEclipse (Feb 20, 2017)

Confidence isn't necessarily tied to him being intact or not. Just like some people say getting a dog (or cat) spayed or neutered automatically means they'll end up lazy fat lumps with no energy. It doesn't. Someone else will correct me if I'm wrong I am sure, but as far as I've ever used or heard the word used with regards to dogs it just means how they handle themselves in different situations. For example a dog that lacks confidence and is nervous may react out of fear in an unfamiliar situation either hurt itself, someone else, or another dog. A dog that has confidence may react, but it will react as it's been brought up to do because it's master has ensured it's been exposed to a variety of situations and has let it develop a sense of self security and well, confidence. You want your dog to react from a place that it knows what it's doing. Not out of fear, anger, or excitement. Some people also act as if confident means aggressive, and that's also incorrect. Aggression is just aggression.

Again, I may be wrong, but people throw words around so much. For example you'll hear vets say that an out of control energetic dog that bounds around tearing up furniture or property outside just has "a lot of love to give". That's not how I'd put it, I'd say it's out of control and needs some handling and training. Not to have that activity further indulged as a positive trait. 

Bottom line, to me, a confident dog means a well trained dog that knows how to handle itself properly and as you expect it to. Not whether it's intact or neutered. A neutered dog can still have confidence, and an intact dog can still react unpredictably out of fear.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I consider that my female is confident. She doesn't fear the world. She either greets or ignores most of the people/dogs/things in it. She may be cautious and observant, but she isn't inappropriately afraid.

I don't have the expertise to comment on your dog and your trainer, but I can say that my female was spayed at around 15-16 months and it did not affect her level of what I call confidence.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I would say there could be something to be said for leaving a shy intact dog intact until they are two, to let them mature a bit. I would think an already confident dog would still be confident post spay/neuter. You have to do what is right for your life, your family, your situation. If leaving your male intact presents no problems for you, and you are a responsible owner who isn't letting their dog run around creating litters, then it shouldn't matter to other people if your dog is intact. If you desire to leave your dog intact, and can do so responsibly, then do so. If you desire to not have to worry about any potential intact dog problems, that's your choice, too. I would probably wait until the dog was between 18-24 months, if possible, if he were my dog. Just to make sure he was mature and that all growth plates were fully closed. But if that is not something you feel comfortable with, that's ok too.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

From my experience: neutering takes away a deal of intensity of the dog. They have a different vibe about them. I love the testosterone look in their eyes. To me they look more beautiful and pure. They are just more aware. I see it in stallions vs geldings as well.
I have had neutered males in the past, before I knew more about training them.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi El. My male is being neutered in 2 weeks. He's 2 years 7 months. His trainer said to wait 18 months to 2 years for growth plates to be fully closed and for the the head to be fully grown (i don't know he he was kidding about the head) : )

I did speak to the vet/nurse and she said that because he's a bit older now, that his recovery could be a bit slower. Which makes me wish that I went ahead and neutered him at 2, which was suggested.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Why neuter at all? Unless there is a medical reason to do so, I keep males intact. I am very responsible and know where my dogs are at all times, no ooops litters happening(if that is your reason to neuter). 

Confidence comes genetically, and then is shaped from experiences. It doesn't mean 'alpha dog' or a dog that is hard to work with....but a dog that is a good to go type and happy in most environments.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

onyx'girl said:


> Why neuter at all? Unless there is a medical reason to do so, I keep males intact. I am very responsible and know where my dogs are at all times, no ooops litters happening(if that is your reason to neuter).
> 
> Confidence comes genetically, and then is shaped from experiences. It doesn't mean 'alpha dog' or a dog that is hard to work with....but a dog that is a good to go type and happy in most environments.


We live in the city and I have a good size fenced in yard. Finn is leashed on walks and on a long line when we are at a field so I don't worry about him wandering for a female in heat. 

But We have a cabin in Maine and that's where I'd be worried that he might wander for a female. The grand kids are in and out and I'd be afraid if he felt the urge to take off he'd have more of an opportunity to go.
He's a home body and likes being around the family. so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't Leave us under normal circumstances.

Neutering him will eliminate the worry of him wandering off.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Findlay said:


> We live in the city and I have a good size fenced in yard. Finn is leashed on walks and on a long line when we are at a field so I don't worry about him wandering for a female in heat.
> 
> But We have a cabin in Maine and that's where I'd be worried that he might wander for a female. The grand kids are in and out and I'd be afraid if he felt the urge to take off he'd have more of an opportunity to go.
> He's a home body and likes being around the family. so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't Leave us under normal circumstances.
> ...


Every dog is different, but neither of our males took off despite plenty of freedom to do so. Ranger was neutered last spring at about 3.5 years. No problem with recovery. I do regret doing it though, changed the dynamics in our house or at least played a role.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Every dog is different, but neither of our males took off despite plenty of freedom to do so. Ranger was neutered last spring at about 3.5 years. No problem with recovery. I do regret doing it though, changed the dynamics in our house or at least played a role.


Nigel, would you mind expanding on how the dynamic changed?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Findlay said:


> We live in the city and I have a good size fenced in yard. Finn is leashed on walks and on a long line when we are at a field so I don't worry about him wandering for a female in heat.
> 
> But We have a cabin in Maine and that's where I'd be worried that he might wander for a female. The grand kids are in and out and I'd be afraid if he felt the urge to take off he'd have more of an opportunity to go.
> He's a home body and likes being around the family. so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't Leave us under normal circumstances.
> ...


How about watching him and/or tethering him for that time or boarding him? Intact males have a very unfair reputation. I never had an intact male leave the social setting. I'd be more worried about 16 year old human teenagers.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

GypsyGhost said:


> Nigel, would you mind expanding on how the dynamic changed?


Here's a thread with some good responses on this.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/666394-aggression-after-neuter-2.html

We are managing them now.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I think a confident dog may or may not be well trained.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Here's a thread with some good responses on this.
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/666394-aggression-after-neuter-2.html
> 
> We are managing them now.


Thank you!


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Dear everybody,


Thank you very much for your thoughts.
I'm not sure if my dog is confident enough, and I wouldn't want to risk compromising his behaviours as it is. One of the signs that makes me question his confidence is that he always looks at me when we walk on the leash, he keeps stopping and poking me with his nose. As if looking for support. 
He hasn't been in any difficult situation yet so I do not know how he'd behave if presented with something out of routine. He was once attacked by a pack of beagles, but I managed to keep him concentrated on a ball so he wouldn't destroy the little monsters. His recalls are good and he never tried to escape. We do about 2 hours off leash every day, so far so good. At home, he's only allowed to go potty only occasionally in the back garden and I again do not worry about him escaping and creating unwanted litters. Also, there is no legislation here for him to be necessarily neutered.
The only thing I noticed that he lunges and barks on dogs that are intact (males only). I kept a record and it was about 1 in every 20 dogs we met and when I asked owners whether their dogs were neutered the answer was always negative. So he does "respond" to male hormones, I guess. This is something I can manage though, and we are working on it. 
I guess I will wait for another 6 months before making final decision.


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Findlay said:


> Hi El. My male is being neutered in 2 weeks. He's 2 years 7 months. His trainer said to wait 18 months to 2 years for growth plates to be fully closed and for the the head to be fully grown (i don't know he he was kidding about the head) : )
> 
> I did speak to the vet/nurse and she said that because he's a bit older now, that his recovery could be a bit slower. Which makes me wish that I went ahead and neutered him at 2, which was suggested.


My dog has a relatively small head , lets hope your trainer wasn't joking. I'll leave him intact for now and see if it grows.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

El_rex said:


> The only thing I noticed that he lunges and barks on dogs that are intact (males only). I kept a record and it was about 1 in every 20 dogs we met and when I asked owners whether their dogs were neutered the answer was always negative. So he does "respond" to male hormones, I guess. This is something I can manage though, and we are working on it.
> I guess I will wait for another 6 months before making final decision.


This is mainly a training/behavioral issue. Hormone related maybe. No excuse for his behavior and should be addressed. Neutering him for it may or may not work as he has already established the habit. Remember that you train the brain, not the testes.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

El_rex said:


> Dear everybody,
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for your thoughts.
> ...


Do you micro manage him? Maybe he's looking for direction while on walks? If it's a confidence issue, I'd keep walking him on leash maintaining distance and engaging as you pass other dogs. Read him. If it appears he's going to become reactive speak to him calmly, maybe take a knee next to him and reassure him that he's with you and safe. Feed him treats if he remains calm. That works better than correcting for my pup.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Neutering has had no impact on the confidence of the hundred or so GSD adult males I've seen go through rescue in the past few. The confident ones are still confident ones. She shy ones are still shy ones. 

We have definitely seen it lower the urge to mark (pee) on everything, to roam (escape a yard), and to hump other dogs in a dominance display (which can be a precursor to fights in multidog households) -- though those behaviors can be in-grained enough that they still practice them post-neuter until taught not to, some dogs just stop them altogether on their own after neutering. In that sense, for novice owners who just want easy-going pets, they're sometimes just easier to manage. That's about it.

The local ACOs have told me that nearly every stray male they pick up is intact. They hardly ever find neutered males stray. That's anecdotal, but it suggests that Wanderlust is real for some intact dogs.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> How about watching him and/or tethering him for that time or boarding him? Intact males have a very unfair reputation. I never had an intact male leave the social setting. I'd be more worried about 16 year old human teenagers.


I'm pretty knowledgeable on the topic of teenagers. 
Most don't bite.


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## Gossamer (Feb 17, 2017)

My last GSD in tact and was passive unless provoked until the end. Nicest animal, to this day, that I've ever been around. My female lab was spayed and wouldn't let someone get too close to my wife/kids...honestly, I firmly believe there are things innate in each animal that you really can only try to control from a behavior aspect...but if the dog is going to be a certain way, it will come out, neutered or not.


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## NerdicEclipse (Feb 20, 2017)

Gossamer said:


> My last GSD in tact and was passive unless provoked until the end. Nicest animal, to this day, that I've ever been around. My female lab was spayed and wouldn't let someone get too close to my wife/kids...honestly, I firmly believe there are things innate in each animal that you really can only try to control from a behavior aspect...but if the dog is going to be a certain way, it will come out, neutered or not.



This. There are things present in each dog's personality. They're just like people. Some are predisposed to behave one way, while others are another way, and more still are different even than that. How a dog behaves comes from a combination of genetics and how they are raised. No two even from the same litter and lineage come out the exact same way. Every single one has personality and they have to end up in a forever home that is suited to who they are otherwise there's more room for incidents and bad behavior. 

Spaying or neutering may help slightly tip the scale one way or another, but like you say - it's generally not going to completely alter who and what they are. I have never heard of a case where a confident, well trained dog got "fixed" and developed any problems after. I've also never heard of any case where a wild and difficult pup got fixed and came out calm and easy to manage.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

El_rex said:


> My dog has a relatively small head , lets hope your trainer wasn't joking. I'll leave him intact for now and see if it grows
> 
> I absolutely love the pic you posted of your puppy. He's a Q T Pie.
> So sweet.
> ...


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

Neutering/spaying I don't think will usually cause any issues with confidence. I know of several males at training that are neutered and are extremely confident. Personally I think a confident dog is a dog that is interested in the world around it, he hears a loud noise and dosent cower away or hide, he wants to explore and see what it is. He will handle new situations well and generally be a pleasant dog to be around. I think you can really tell a dog is confident by it's body posture when meeting new dogs or people. A dog with confidence issues might pace or bark constantly(nervous behaviors), show avoidance behavior, or be quick to get aggressive/defensive.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...vior-changes-when-dogs-are-spayed-or-neutered


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I have a houseful, all fixed. The GSDs have great solid temperaments, love exploring, checking things out and are for the most part neutral. I say for the most part because the youngest has more of an edge about him. He has always been more of a guarding kind of dog in general. I waited longer to fix him but did so to take some of that edge out. He still has that edge, but it is better. I think the neutering along with his maturing helped. I still don't put him around dogs he don't know without heavy supervision and never off leash. We can go places with dogs without issues and I use that as training. He does not interact with 3 out of 4 of the males at home unless he has a basket muzzle on. This is more for my peace of mind because I do not wish to break up a fight--been there, done that and it's not pretty, so we stay proactive and it works well.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I have four intact males, (one WGSL and three working line). They all live indoors, loose, with me. I even free feed kibble although I do separate when feeding raw.

I have no problems with my boys and only separate them when one of my two intact females come into heat. I always say there comes a modicum of quiet confidence with testosterone combined with maturity.

I did have in the past a WGWL that had to be neutered as an adult for health reasons and it took a toll on him physically and mentally. He lost more than his edge, it took the wind out of his sails. Let's not even get started on the battle of the bulge and weight redistribution.


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## Jake and Elwood (Feb 1, 2014)

Regarding vet's comment about waiting for his 'head' to mature.....I'd be willing to bet he was referring to the Femoral head, related to his hips....of course....I won't argue that GSD's brains can be slow to mature, especially compared to their 100 pound big bodies, LOL!


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

wolfy dog said:


> This is mainly a training/behavioral issue. Hormone related maybe. No excuse for his behavior and should be addressed. Neutering him for it may or may not work as he has already established the habit. Remember that you train the brain, not the testes.






ausdland said:


> Do you micro manage him? Maybe he's looking for direction while on walks? If it's a confidence issue, I'd keep walking him on leash maintaining distance and engaging as you pass other dogs. Read him. If it appears he's going to become reactive speak to him calmly, maybe take a knee next to him and reassure him that he's with you and safe. Feed him treats if he remains calm. That works better than correcting for my pup.


I'm using a training halter which helps A LOT to control lunging. Thing is he doesn't do with every dog, he even ignores small nippy things that bark right into his face. In the past I tried getting him into a sit position and fed him treats to wait for another dog pass, it works but only if the dog is neutered, if its intact - BAM, he'll lunge the second he senses him, barks evily and didn't care for treats.. That's why the training halter was introduced.


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Magwart said:


> Neutering has had no impact on the confidence of the hundred or so GSD adult males I've seen go through rescue in the past few. The confident ones are still confident ones. She shy ones are still shy ones.
> 
> We have definitely seen it lower the urge to mark (pee) on everything, to roam (escape a yard), and to hump other dogs in a dominance display (which can be a precursor to fights in multidog households) -- though those behaviors can be in-grained enough that they still practice them post-neuter until taught not to, some dogs just stop them altogether on their own after neutering. In that sense, for novice owners who just want easy-going pets, they're sometimes just easier to manage. That's about it.
> 
> The local ACOs have told me that nearly every stray male they pick up is intact. They hardly ever find neutered males stray. That's anecdotal, but it suggests that Wanderlust is real for some intact dogs.








Gossamer said:


> My last GSD in tact and was passive unless provoked until the end. Nicest animal, to this day, that I've ever been around. My female lab was spayed and wouldn't let someone get too close to my wife/kids...honestly, I firmly believe there are things innate in each animal that you really can only try to control from a behavior aspect...but if the dog is going to be a certain way, it will come out, neutered or not.



I agree its mostly genetic. I don't think my dog is shy but he is definitely not as solid as I'd would like him to be. I'll continue to train him and work on his behaviours to shape him into the best of dog he can become.


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Findlay said:


> El_rex said:
> 
> 
> > My dog has a relatively small head , lets hope your trainer wasn't joking. I'll leave him intact for now and see if it grows
> ...


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

astrovan2487 said:


> Personally I think a confident dog is a dog that is interested in the world around it, he hears a loud noise and dosent cower away or hide, he wants to explore and see what it is. He will handle new situations well and generally be a pleasant dog to be around. I think you can really tell a dog is confident by it's body posture when meeting new dogs or people. A dog with confidence issues might pace or bark constantly(nervous behaviors), show avoidance behavior, or be quick to get aggressive/defensive.


Rex is definitely interested in the world around him, he never tried hiding and running away from loud noises. Ears up, gets alerted, concentrated face.. Sometimes he'd give one bark. he was also never scared of any dog he met, however he's not fond of children who want to pet him and usually turning his head away. Adults, he's ok with.
However he is needy, at home he is always by my side, moves from one room to another following and settling next to me. 
He is not a classical nervy dog, but not 100% solid


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

El_rex said:


> Findlay said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you, he is very sweet boy. As a baby he was an angel and I daresay our life together had never been too difficult until he hit his teens. This phase is challenging but I really care about him and want to do the best for my boy. He can be needy at times but overall we are doing fine.
> ...


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

GypsyGhost said:


> Two is magical. Hang in there!



LOL -- Three's even better! And the truly amazing, best years....those start around age seven! :laugh2:


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Thank you all again for the input. It looks like the general opinion is that dog's personality shouldn't change much after neutering, so its more of personal matter preferences. 


Again, for the "head" comment, maybe they were femoral heads that the vet was referring to, but I can tell that my male neutered cat's head looks very feminine and he doesn't have this tomcat appearance. He (the cat) had to be done though because of agreement I signed with the breeder.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

A few months ago we neutered our dog Max when he turned two he had a retained testicle. Otherwise we would of kept him intact. He is still the same Max and has not lost his edge.


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## I~Luv~Maggie (Feb 20, 2017)

I got my female dog fixed (she is not a GSD) and she is still the same old Ruby Tuesday hasn't changed one bit.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Jake and Elwood said:


> Regarding vet's comment about waiting for his 'head' to mature.....I'd be willing to bet he was referring to the Femoral head, related to his hips....of course....I won't argue that GSD's brains can be slow to mature, especially compared to their 100 pound big bodies, LOL!


Hi Jake and Elwood. It was me who posted "the head of the GSD being the last thing to finish growing."

I truly do not want anyone to be misinformed...

So. It was Finn's "Trainer" not his "Vet" that said that about the head and he meant the actual Head. 
Meaning, wait for the head to grow big and blocky/boxy : )

I did ask my vet if that was true and he laughed and said that he'd never heard that before but it could be true.

It's likely the trainer is joking. I just don't know. 
I'll ask him next week.

take care.


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