# Malinois Breeder for PSA dog



## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

I am falling more and more in love with PSA. Learning more about it while attending a local club and researching it on my own. Second dog is still far out (2+ years) but I find myself caught between a Shepherd or a Malinois for the sport. Does anyone have any suggestions for good Malinois breeders that produce dogs suitable for the sport who I could talk to for a better idea of whether they would be a fit for me?

Personal opinions also welcome! I am working on getting a solid idea of the in's and out's of the sport before I even think about taking on that challenging of a dog. Want to make sure I know what the heck I'm doing first. While I have not had a Malinois before, I do have experience with other various large, driven dogs over the course of ten years or so. I am very active and train/exercise/work every day. And of course, if I did get a Malinois, we would be diving headfirst into PSA with titling goals. All the stories about what seems like basically monster Malinois have me a bit on edge about whether I can handle one. I want to be confident about it, but I also don't want to delude myself into an animal I can't handle. Should a newbie to Malinois talk to a breeder about either a lower drive Malinois as a first dog or possibly a green dog that already has some base work? Will it make that much of a difference?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

If you are close to Dallas, check out www.k9workingdogs.org
They have a mock PSA trial on the 27th. It would be a great opportunity to check out some mals and talk to some experienced people about the breed and sport. 

David Winners


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I don't think I'll look for a mal in the US anywhere other than Ot Vitosha from here on out, although there are tempting kennels in Europe.

I'm biased ofc but when it comes to bite sport dogs screw GSDs the mal is the way to go.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

wait a minute , who said you can't do PSA with a GSD !


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Nobody


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Pax8 how do you think your GSD in your avatar would handle the PSA?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Michael Ellis for Mali's

Lee


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Either du Loups du soleil (Michael Ellis/Lisa maze) or du dantero in so cal.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Mike Suttle at Loganhaus. 

David Winners


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

David Winners said:


> If you are close to Dallas, check out K9 Working Dogs
> They have a mock PSA trial on the 27th. It would be a great opportunity to check out some mals and talk to some experienced people about the breed and sport.
> 
> David Winners


Yes, this is the club I am attending every week! Khoi and all the members are very knowledgeable and helpful. I am trying to soak up as much information as possible! I'll ask if it would be possible for me to attend the trial.




Baillif said:


> I don't think I'll look for a mal in the US anywhere other than Ot Vitosha from here on out, although there are tempting kennels in Europe.
> 
> I'm biased ofc but when it comes to bite sport dogs screw GSDs the mal is the way to go.





carmspack said:


> wait a minute , who said you can't do PSA with a GSD !


Haha, I still love my GSD's, but for bite sport I am definitely obsessed with that innate intensity I always see in great Mals. I'm definitely going to be following your pup very closely Bailiff, he looks like wildfire!



carmspack said:


> Pax8 how do you think your GSD in your avatar would handle the PSA?


I honestly don't know. The last club I was at, I brought him out and they gave me an evaluation for potentially doing Schutzhund with him. I was just told he seemed maybe medium drive with not much interest in the bite unless it was pushed hard, so there wasn't much interest in working him in a bite sport. 

He's been fearless with all the new things he's been introduced to in agility and would probably jump through a screaming ring of fire for a chance to tug, but if the drive to bite isn't there, then he wouldn't be much of a prospect, would he? After the initial visit, I never really thought again about trying him in a bite sport, especially after the way he took to agility like a fish to water a couple weeks after that. 

I'd be interested in getting a second opinion as it would be helpful to go through some handler work before a more intense dog, but I also don't want to waste the club's time with a dog that may not go anywhere in the sport, you know?



David Winners said:


> Mike Suttle at Loganhaus.
> 
> David Winners





mspiker03 said:


> Either du Loups du soleil (Michael Ellis/Lisa maze) or du dantero in so cal.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App





wolfstraum said:


> Michael Ellis for Mali's
> 
> Lee


Thank you for the suggestions! I have already emailed Mike Suttle and will contact Michael Ellis and Du Dantero today.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

If your dog is that crazy for a tug…there’s really no reason he couldn’t do bite sport. Not sure at what age he was evaluated for his bite/tug drive. But I’ve never seen a dog get evaluated by getting a sleeve thrown at them right away…most dogs won’t know what to do with that lol. I would never consider bringing your dog, and learning from a “sub-par” dog as a waste of time. Your club should be more than happy to work with you and your dog and teach you about what you see. At the end of the day, everyone pays the same dues…so everyone should get time with the helper (if you start paying, right now it sounds like you’re just watching).

I’d get your dog reevaluated, and see where it goes. If there’s that much tug drive, not sure why that wouldn’t transfer over to a flirt pole/buggy whip, then to a bite pillow, and eventually to a sleeve. This is your first dog, it was never meant to be a national champion, but that doesn’t mean you and your dog won’t enjoy doing it.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

It's tough working dogs that aren't that interested in biting. You have to frustrate them like crazy and the energy expenditure to make it happen can be pretty high. Drag ins drag outs agitation and then sometimes you switch decoys or helpers on them and they go back to being some kind of gumby with teeth. Put some control on them and they're like meh screw it. Put enough time into it can you make it happen? Sure. But you could just get a dog that has it in his blood and spend all that extra time doing something else. Like trying to get him to not bite when it isn't time or to out when you want him to.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Personally I would work and learn as much as you can with your current dog. It's not a waste of time at all. That way you have some experience when you get your next dog and can set it up for success. 

I have only seen/worked one mal that I was impressed with and that dog in the hands of an inexperienced handler would have been a disaster. Most that I have seen are very environmentally nervy. Honestly I think that's why a lot of these sports use the types of distractions they do.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks everyone, I'll talk to the club and see if they would be willing to let me bring in Kaiju to work a bit and see how he does. Even if he isn't a natural, it would be nice to get some experience on the handler side. There'll only be so much I can learn without actually working a dog. 

If I can get the tug game transferred over to a sleeve, maybe it could work. I have noticed he does have a pretty solid bite on a tug, which from what I understand is a big thing to look for in bitework? He'll shoot so far into it, he basically grips with his back teeth and I can typically pick him up, swing him in a circle, and fling him back down into the ground without him letting go or chewing on it. I just don't know how he'll do with all the environmental pressures. I've never really introduced distractions during tug sessions, it's always been used as reward in training, usually after ignoring distractions.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The fact that he bites a tug says he has prey drive. That’s basically a lot of what you need in order to do bite sport. The other drives will get tested later on to see how he handles the pressure of a helper. A good helper can also help a dog work through certain environmental pressures by not introducing them too quickly.

You shouldn’t worry about points, the way your dog does it compared to others, and all that other stuff. Worry about learning, handling the dog, figuring out what you need to do and how you will handle the next one. You’re 100% right that you’d be at a huge disadvantage if you’re learning to handle on the dog that you do buy for competition purposes. It’s much better to learn on a dog that you don’t really care how it does, if you make a mistake…who cares…figure out how to fix it. It’s not setting you back from achieving your goal because your goal in the first place is to just learn about the sport and your dog.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I'd recommend La Forge kennels for a really drivey dog that loves to bite. There are many smaller breeders that only breed once every two years or so that are producing terrific dogs. Ot Vitosha is great, but their dogs are ridiculously expensive, and heavy on IPO, you might want to look into KNPV lines for PSA, but choose wisely. You could get the same dog you would from Ot Vitosha, or even better, for less than half the price from a different breeder. 

Other kennels I'd look at are Top Gun K9, des Ombres Valeureux, and Avisa K9. Overseas, one of my top choices for an import malinois for PSA would be Arrack's Home. I also like de Lescaut kennel in Canada, he has some terrific dogs. 

Another option is to go through the titled PSA dogs and check out the kennel names out from their registered names. That is what I did when I was looking into malinois. There are a lot of kennels out there that don't get a lot of press but have a bunch of titled dogs in the states.

I'll be breeding to a European PH1 stud in a year or two, but I breed rarely. I like a thinking dog, not a pure biting machine. Be careful to choose a breeder that is known for producing dogs with solid nerves.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Muskeg said:


> I'd recommend La Forge kennels for a really drivey dog that loves to bite. There are many smaller breeders that only breed once every two years or so that are producing terrific dogs. Ot Vitosha is great, but their dogs are ridiculously expensive, and heavy on IPO, you might want to look into KNPV lines for PSA, but choose wisely. You could get the same dog you would from Ot Vitosha, or even better, for less than half the price from a different breeder.
> 
> Other kennels I'd look at are Top Gun K9, des Ombres Valeureux, and Avisa K9. Overseas, one of my top choices for an import malinois for PSA would be Arrack's Home. I also like de Lescaut kennel in Canada, he has some terrific dogs.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Lots to research. I definitely want to do some research based on dogs I see in competition that I like the performance of, but I'm going to hold off on that for now until I have a better idea of what I need to be looking for. Won't help me much if I go to look at a dog perform and can't tell the difference between say, an alert dog and just a nervy dog.


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## bruce23 (Jun 8, 2010)

old thread but bluecollark9.com has the best mals in dfw in my opinion.


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