# Green Handlers--Would you give up your dog?



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Just for fun, I thought I'd throw the following hypothetical scenario out to people. I'm making it a "green handler" type question because I think us clueless folks are more likely to question our abilities. But anyone can answer who feels so inclined.

Say a very talented handler--one who consistently competes at the national and world level--tells you that they love your dog and want to compete it themselves because they think the dog is that talented that they could take the dog to worlds. 

Now, you're a new handler. Bound to mess things up. And it's slim to none that you'd ever get the dog to be "all that it could be." For the sake of converstaion, this is someone you know and trust and who knows the dog and you well.

Do you:

A. Say "back off lady/man! He/she's MINE!"

B. Give the dog to this person--no way you'd be able to do something so awesome with this dog and you'd love to see them succeed.

C. Let them handle the dog for awhile, then compete the dog yourself after they are more seasoned.

D. Freak out that they are going to steal the dog in the middle of the night, move, and refuse to have any additional contact with the individual.

E. Other


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

A. I'd tell them to back off but that he/she is welcome to cointinue to train me with my dog unless he/she would pay so much money for the dog that it'd be very hard to say no, though... LOL


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## Discoetheque (Nov 2, 2011)

I would probably go with 'Other' being that the other person assist me in training my own dog so that we could compete at a higher level ourselves. 

My dog is my dog. That's all there is to it. I'm not a breeder looking to title stock or an extreme competitor. I'm someone who mainly competes in obedience, shows because my dog and I enjoy it, and who has started training in SchH for fun but has had to slow that train down due to financial constraints. My dog is a companion first, and a competitor second. Even if she never stepped foot in a ring or on a field again, she would have a place in my home.
But I would hope that this being a person I know well and trust would be willing to understand that the success that they would gain with my dog would be a drop of happiness in the sea of pain that would come with knowing I've given up that piece of myself forever. I would hope that they would be willing to assist the next generation (so to speak) of handlers by helping me to correct those mistakes, hone what I already know and sharpen my skills. After all, green trainers don't become seasoned trainers by avoiding making mistakes. They learn from their mistakes, and each dog's training helps to improve the training of the following.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I'd go in the "other" group as well. 

I'm always open to advice from seasoned veterans or anyone with any information that can better my training/relationship with my dog, but he's staying with me


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Other - I'd keep the dog until it is more mature because only then can I really tell how much I like it, and if he's not really what I'm looking for, I can sell him to that person 

I don't buy a dog I don't intend to train and handle, so I wouldn't immediately sell a dog just because someone else wanted it (have had that offer) and I wouldn't let anyone else train and handle a dog I intended to keep and handle later on, no way!


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## Whiskey Six (Dec 19, 2001)

I am a "green handler" in every sense of the word. But I am also a good student of the sport and belong to a good club. (Tornado Alley)

That said. I have an 8 month old boy that is absolutely amazing. He has amazed me since he was 9 weeks old. He amazes everyone at club training and I have had several offers to buy him. I am often apprehensive about my ability to bring out his full potential. But he is MY dog. He is my fur kid. I love him like a child and no one is going to take him from me. I have a great and experienced club that is willing to help me train him to his fullest and just as important, train me. I have his breeder, who is extremely knowledgeable and always ready and willing to give advice and encouragement.

I know that this road we are on may be a little slower than someone else could travel it but he and I are in this together and I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I have "seen" this scenario happen and the dog was turned over. Also ruined.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I would have to go with "A"


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

I actually had a couple similar situations like this come up recently. In one situation, the dog would be doing far more than I could ever do with him and would have a real job. 

That said, My dog is still with me, I just can't do it. I got him as a competition dog, but I love him a ton and can't let him go, no matter how much better a handler the other people might be, he's a good dog and sleeps on my bed and I can't replace the bond I have with him with another dog.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Most dogs are perfectly happy no matter what level they compete at and all the National placings in the world doesn't mean a thing to them.


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

NOPE would take the compliment and run with it. Wouldn't trade my dog for the world!!! We are in this together. 


_“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart.”_
Unknown

_“Nobody can fully understand the meaning of love unless he’s owned a dog. A dog can show you more honest affection with a flick of his tail than a man can gather through a lifetime of handshakes.”_

_“We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It’s the best deal man has ever made.”_
M. Facklam

All of my dogs have given me these things, a long with a very primitive and deep bond. I couldn't handle giving one of them up because of this.


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## LukasGSD (May 18, 2011)

I've been asked "How much do you want?" Jokingly. But I still laughed and thought IN YOUR DREAAAMS.


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## amaris (Jan 6, 2011)

Hmm...doesn't the dog kinda get a say in this? I mean, given that you and your dog are bonded, he probably would be happiest training with you instead of being handed over? 

Hypothetically, I'd ask talented, experienced handler to train me...maybe we'll never get as far as they can with the dog but at the very least, i like to think my dog would prefer to train with me and compete with me, thn win all the ribbons in the world, because really, what ARE ribbons to them anyway?

so i guess somewhere between A and E


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Love hearing the responses! Mine would be A with a twist.  If I had a good enough relationship with the person asking, I'd tell them A in a joking way, and then say in all seriousness that I'd love for them to try to mold me into a good handler and hope for the best under their guidance. 



amaris said:


> Hmm...doesn't the dog kinda get a say in this? I mean, given that you and your dog are bonded, he probably would be happiest training with you instead of being handed over?


I think that's humanizing dogs too much. Yeah, your dog might be sad for a day or two--"where mom/dad??" But they'd move on, bond with their new handler, and be done with it.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I would say thank you. I am very happy that they think so highly of my dog, but that she is my dog and I will muddle along and do the best I can with her.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

To be honest, the breeders daughter in me says that if that particular trainer made a good and irresistable offer, the dog would be sold. 

That is how a lot of people made a lot of money over the years, by taking in promising dogs, working them, possibly titling them and exposing them to a certain audience and if the bidding and possible owner was good, the dog was sold and with that money they went on to search for another dog. 
Many people have paid off their homes, cars etc. that way.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

B. but I would ask to get the dog back at retirement time.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

GSDElsa said:


> amaris said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm...doesn't the dog kinda get a say in this? I mean, given that you and your dog are bonded, he probably would be happiest training with you instead of being handed over?
> ...


I disagree that it is humanizing the dog. Though I don't participate in SchH, I would readily admit that I would love to see someone else run my dog (during class- practice) in agility. I think it would be neat to see. But there is no chance my pup would even begin to think about running with someone else. She chooses me. She has no interest with even walking with someone else. She's made a choice, and it is something I respect (and cherish).

I would be flattered that someone would say something like that to me. And I'd be willing to work with the person if they wanted to work with my dog in practice. But I would not allow another person to compete with my dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

wildo said:


> I disagree that it is humanizing the dog. Though I don't participate in SchH, I would readily admit that I would love to see someone else run my dog (during class- practice) in agility. I think it would be neat to see. But there is no chance my pup would even begin to think about running with someone else. She chooses me. She has no interest with even walking with someone else. She's made a choice, and it is something I respect (and cherish).
> 
> I would be flattered that someone would say something like that to me. And I'd be willing to work with the person if they wanted to work with my dog in practice. But I would not allow another person to compete with my dog.


I think it depends on how far along the dog is. Nikon...honestly if I found out tomorrow I were terminal, I would not be surprised if DH and I decided the best thing for him would be to leave earth with me. I know that sounds extreme but in some ways he is not an easy dog and there's not many people I have come across if any that are really looking for a dog like him in their lives. But he is not a "green" dog, I've been training and titling him for three years albeit not at a high level but we have some competitions under our belt together. Also just in the past few months I'd say he has really changed, not really his drives or how he works in training, but how he is with me at home and our overall bond and connection. Before this summer, I would have said that I probably feel much more attached to him than he feels to me but now I don't feel that is true. Hard to explain. Now Pan, 14 months old, I could probably hand him off to anyone and he'd be just fine. Of course *I* wouldn't be, but he's very much an immature, green dog and right now everything he discovers is the coolest thing ever and every day is the best day of his life. My female Kenya is absolutely the most single-person'd dog I have ever seen and yet she took to my sister like they were two peas in a pod. I don't think we can say our dog would never choose anyone else unless you've had to observe your dog actually making that choice and been in a situation where the best interests of the dog (and I'm not talking for competition and titles, but for the dog's happiness) is handing over the leash. My heart dog is my dog Coke and we are his third home. As much as I love him I can't say that he wouldn't adjust to living with another family.

Having rescued and adopted a few dogs as adults I can't say that I think those dogs would have been unhappily pining for more their entire lives if we in particular had not been the adoptive family.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Betty said:


> Most dogs are perfectly happy no matter what level they compete at and all the National placings in the world doesn't mean a thing to them.





lhczth said:


> I would say thank you. I am very happy that they think so highly of my dog, but that she is my dog and I will muddle along and do the best I can with her.


I don't do Schutzhund, but if I did, I'm pretty sure these two responses would best sum up my feelings on the topic. I care more about _my dogs_ than I do about than world titles. And my dogs are pretty darned happy with me and my husband and the life we provide for them. Could they achieve more with someone else? Halo for sure. But so what? She's having a blast and so am I. Even if we just take classes and don't ever get to the point of competition, it's the process, not the ribbons, that are important to me.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GSDElsa said:


> Yeah, your dog might be sad for a day or two--"where mom/dad??" But they'd move on, bond with their new handler, and be done with it.


If that were the case, I wouldn't have had much of a relationship with them to begin with. 

I have no doubt they'd adapt, but it would be a heck of a lot more than a day or two. Especially for Keefer, who lives and breathes for me. I think it would be extremely hard for him to be without me, even if my husband was still there. He went into a funk when Dena died that lasted for months - and that was with him still in the same home with the same people he loves. Halo is probably more adaptable than he is, but she is also very bonded to all of us.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

If a national/world level competitor thought that about Rorie then I would tell them to go find a good stud dog and then they'd have to wait a while Given that they are a national/world competitor though I am sure they might be able to find a dog somewhere


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

GSDElsa said:


> Yeah, your dog might be sad for a day or two--"where mom/dad??" But they'd move on, bond with their new handler, and be done with it.


I dont agree with this, I think it depends on the dog and how strong their bond was with their family.

My ex's friend has a Akita, they are very bonded to each other, I watched that dog sit like a statue while her owner left to go get some take out, I tried to pet her, engage her with play and she didn't want anything to do with me, she just sat there waiting for him to come back. Well for the last year and a half he has been in jail and his dog is staying with his mom and that dog doesn't listen to a word that woman says, she doesn't want attention from her, she just lays around all day, I am surprised she didn't pass away from a broken heart.

I left Sinister with his daddy for 6 days while I was away and his dad told me he acted like he was sick while I was gone. He sat by the door, he wasn't into playing, he whined.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

_



Yeah, your dog might be sad for a day or two--"where mom/dad??" But they'd move on, bond with their new handler, and be done with it.

Click to expand...

There are two Ladies out there Indra would live with in a heart beat without probably even look back to me. She'd be doing a happy dance any time she saw me but she wouldn't have an issue moving in with them at all. That'd be AbbyK9 and my fellow German Teammate.
_


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

It all depends on what your end goal is.
If you are just about trying to learn for yourself and have fun competing then I see why many would say no.
If you are about breeding and all then I can see why it wouldn't matter.

Personally I would go with B. If they can train and title then I have no issue with it. It's not like they are keeping the dog, they are just trying to take it to a high level competition wise and could do it easily and faster than me. I will end up breeding my dog so that only helps me, with my end goal in mind.

This doesn't mean afterwards I can't go and compete with him when I get him back. For me I have plans on sending mine back to his breeder in the Czech for a title or 2 if I can afford as I can't get those titles over here in the states but I will get his IPO myself here.

I think many people feel that their dog will forget them and lose bonding to them and all, which I can understand. I know many owners believe that the dog will feel horrible and loenly without them...lol..that is just plain ego. Sorry but the dog will move on without you after sometime and once it's over and he/she comes back and is all titled they will bond right back with you. 
I it is temporary and not permanent so no need to get all emotional about it.

**** while that dog is gone, I would go to my trainer here in the states and get another dog and train in the meantime.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Having done plenty of rescue and seen what seems like a zillion dogs go through board and training with the type of person described in my first post, I have never NOT seen a dog adjust just fine to a new person. Maybe those dogs are out there, but I certainly haven't seen them. 

Obviously the more training you have on your dog, the harder the adjustment period for a new handler and dog to figure each other out. But I don't really think that dogs pine over their previous owners for extended periods of time.

Not to say I'm making that bond trivial. My heart would break if I ever didn't have either of my two beasts. They are truly my world and i could never give them up to anyone else. Something I could never get over.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

holland said:


> Given that they are a national/world competitor though I am sure they might be able to find a dog somewhere


Hey, you never know :smirk: Maybe they just come across a dog by chance that really speaks to them.  Stranger things have happened.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> Having done plenty of rescue and seen what seems like a zillion dogs go through board and training with the type of person described in my first post, I have never NOT seen a dog adjust just fine to a new person. Maybe those dogs are out there, but I certainly haven't seen them.
> 
> Obviously the more training you have on your dog, the harder the adjustment period for a new handler and dog to figure each other out. But I don't really think that dogs pine over their previous owners for extended periods of time.
> 
> Not to say I'm making that bond trivial. My heart would break if I ever didn't have either of my two beasts. They are truly my world and i could never give them up to anyone else. Something I could never get over.


It's the truth. I've seen it for years. Some dogs even forget you over time and don't even do a happy dance to see you. Others will never forget and do a happy dance once they see you but you are not their owner anymore. 

Heck, if Yukon got used to live with somebody else, even if it just was a short period of time (AbbyK9) any other dog can too. 

It's a human issue, definitely not a dog issue. 
Dogs easily adjust to new situations, it is in their survival.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> Hey, you never know :smirk: Maybe they just come across a dog by chance that really speaks to them.  Stranger things have happened.


yep, it happens, it's how I got Nala. Pretty much because my parents were like "She's perfect for Sandra" and they were right.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSDElsa said:


> Having done plenty of rescue and seen what seems like a zillion dogs go through board and training with the type of person described in my first post, I have never NOT seen a dog adjust just fine to a new person. Maybe those dogs are out there, but I certainly haven't seen them.
> 
> Obviously the more training you have on your dog, the harder the adjustment period for a new handler and dog to figure each other out. But I don't really think that dogs pine over their previous owners for extended periods of time.
> 
> Not to say I'm making that bond trivial. My heart would break if I ever didn't have either of my two beasts. They are truly my world and i could never give them up to anyone else. Something I could never get over.


And to be honest, you'd be stupid to give up Medo. You are a talented handler and Medo is playing in a different league. With the right guidance you'll grow with him. The two of you are the perfect match, I can see you guys achieving great things and you are definitely on the right track. Don't let anyone ( ) ever tell you otherwise.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> B. Give the dog to this person--no way you'd be able to do something so awesome with this dog and you'd love to see them succeed.


Do I get my dog back after they've titled? If so, then heck yes! I would love to see my dog make it to the top, and I know she would enjoy it, but I am just not the person to take her there... if someone else wants to train and title my dog for me, and I don't have to lift a finger or pay a cent, who am I to say no? 

If we're talking about said top handler buying the dog from me, and me never seeing the dog again... it would have to be a LOT of money, but they say everyone has their price. So I don't know. If I could have my dog back after retirement, that could sweeten the deal.


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

Betty said:


> Most dogs are perfectly happy no matter what level they compete at and all the National placings in the world doesn't mean a thing to them.


 
That is exactly what I was thinking.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

I guess my question to myself if I was that person is in that situation.... what are MY goals with MY dog? 

I get that some people will never be good handlers, try as they may, but how else is one to learn if they don't at least give it a try, as long as they are doing the very best they can do? So what if they make mistakes, that's part of the process. 

And, so what if they never get any titles on the dog as long as they and the dog are enjoying themselves..


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

I would be going with A. This dog is first and foremost my companion, MY dog. 

Of course I've gotten the "if you ever get tired of her, I'll take her!" from people, and then a couple more serious offers. But even though I am a very green handler, I know Rayne could go far, and it will be on me how much we accomplish......she is mine


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I guess mine would be other. I don't think I'd freak out on anyone for asking, I'd actually probably feel a little proud/flattered that someone thought so much of my dog, but I'd never let anyone else take her and train/compete with her. She could have just as much fun training with me in a lower level as she could with someone else at a higher level. I think part of what makes working fun for the dog is pleasing the one they love. I'm the one she loves, and honestly she couldn't care less if other people are telling her to do something, and I assume a lot of other dogs are this way as well, especially GSDs.


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## PaulH (Aug 24, 2005)

I had this situation 3 years ago. I am not a completely green handler. But I have a dog with bad nerves, now on Prozac to stop OCD issues and would not be able to pass protection after 3 years of expensive 2-3 times a week training. I still have him at 6 years old but he is a pet(who won't walk on linoleum.
SO, I made some calls and found a 7-8 month old pup. Brought him home. After a few months, the trainer offered me $13,000 for the dog. He said I didn't understand that he was a world class dog. I turned him down for a year. Then after a year the price was around $4,000 probably due to my green handling. But as two world class handler/trainers competed for him, I had his hips x rayed at 2 years old. Left hip: mild dysplasia, Penn Hip DI 0.59. Away goes the money. I could not have dogs hanging around because I wanted a sport dog that was healthy. I gave the dog to a man after looking for the right home for 6 months. The man is from Long Island and emailed me after a year to say thank you for the best friend he ever had in his life. It made me feel better.
Meanwhile I got a Jimbeam vom Talka Marda male pup who is exactly what I asked for. And he just keeps getting better. Like Jimbeam, he lives in the house and he is a wonderful dog who learns fast. I love him. And I am happy that at least one out of three working dogs I have had is worth the money I spent. Because I have spent too much money on training to get bad nerves and then bad hips that I feel were known before I bought him.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

If you didnt think to x ray hips before you bought him why do you think they were done? And mild hd in one hip often doesn't mean the end of a working career.


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## PaulH (Aug 24, 2005)

They were done at 8 months old by a "friend" vet. Never submitted because the friend said they were great.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I wouldn't give a dog away because of mild hip dysplasia I have seen dogs with moderate hip dysplasia do the sport without a problem-and it was a nice dog. Its good that he has a home with someone that loves him though


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

LOL - I recently had my TD offer me $6 for my puppy. We all looked at him funny and he said, "what? I only paid $3 for my dog." :laugh: I declined the offer.

I'd go with A. Maybe use a bit different wording though. 

As I told the breeder before I got my dog - I'd like to do SchH but first of all the dog will be my companion. Competing in SchH, obtaining titles and all that is really just a bonus in my book. I think it's a necessity for all dogs/owners to be trained plus it's fun to do. I train my dog in SchH specifically because we need to be trained, SchH has always interested me and because we both have fun doing this training. If we get to a place where we earn titles or compete at a high level - COOL. That's the bonus. And I hope in the Judge's critique he/she says something to the effect that he/she can see that we are having fun.


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## jennyp (Jun 18, 2011)

I would never give Brody up!! I'd probably ask the person to work with me- to train me to train my dog. It's true that my dog would most likely not excel to his fullest potential with me alone, but he's loved and has a good life. I don't think that titles equal happiness for a dog.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I had several top trainers tell me that my Ashen could go to the WUSVs--but that wasn't a goal of mine. He wasn't going anywhere else. So we did the HOT Championships. 

I'd be very, very, very picky about letting someone else take my dog for high-level competition. Some dogs love that intensity of training, but competition is for the humans, not for the dogs. The dogs don't care if they ever enter a trial--they just wan to work/play with us.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

BlackthornGSD said:


> I'd be very, very, very picky about letting someone else take my dog for high-level competition. Some dogs love that intensity of training, but competition is for the humans, not for the dogs. *The dogs don't care if they ever enter a trial--they just wan to work/play with us*.


What SHE ^^^ said.


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