# K-Laser?



## aubie

We just had Dunc's routine bloodwork done and it looks like he'll be taken off the Deramaxx for his arthritis--his levels are starting to look a little wacky. We'll confirm more with our vet Monday (our regular vet was out, but one of the others called to let us know about his bloodwork/options).

She suggested we might look at either Adequan injections or K-laser therapy. I've found tons on the Adequan but has anyone tried the laser therapy? Thoughts on either? He's done wonderfully on the Deramaxx/Dasiquin combo and is running, jumping and playing but I'm not willing to risk any liver/kidney issues by keeping him on it, so these are the options we're looking at.


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## debbiebrown

Haven't heard of the k-laser but have had plenty of experience with the Adaquin, and i say definitely go for that. don't know what kind of arthritis your dealing with but its helped all mine with spinal arthritis into the hips.
i never used anti-imflammatories on a regular basis, only a few days here and there if i really i felt they really needed it. i also found in the later stages of spondylosis that the anti-inflammatories somehow blocked the nerve receptors and made things much worse. meaning the motor skills were somehow interupted by the med. walking like someone that had to many drinks, wobbly, coordination worse, etc. although the anti-inflammatories can also cause dizziness so it could be either or both.
i would go the alternative route vs full time meds if at all possible.

debbie


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## aubie

He has arthritis in his hips and knees....I think I may look at the adequan first...I'm not sure. DH and I will need to sit down with the vet and talk about it next week...right now I'm just looking up as much info as I can.


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## AngelJ

I don't know about the k-laser therapy, but bailey is on adequan. She has arthritis in her knees and elbows and the adequan helps her to walk much better. We give her the injections at home. It is less expensive to give the shots yourself. After the inital loading peroid of the shots, we give her a booster shot about every four weeks. I like not having to give her anything daily and the shots don't have any side effects.


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## LisaT

Never heard of K-laser:
http://www.iowalaserdoctor.com/classiv.htm

This is what I use on he dogs:
http://www.mclarenusainc.com/

You could add a hyaluronic acid supplement and try the laser therapy? I'm a big believer in getting some body work done.


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## aubie

Lisa I think the k-laser is similar to what you use...the vet says it helps re-juvinate blood flow/cell growth. She's even used it on herself for her arthritis in her hands and can tell a difference. She said she wouldn't recommend it for dogs that are very "far gone" in their arthritis, but it's a great help to those with mild to medium cases...she's seen some amazing results. I'm thinking about looking into the laser and maybe accupuncture continued with the Dasiquin tablets.

I've added cartilage rich foods like chicken feet/trachea to his diet and fish oil. I still haven't talked to DH about this (he should be home in an hour).


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## LisaT

I use the "red light" on just about everything - the dogs know what it's name is







I use it on myself too, mom, etc. If I knew acupuncture and the right points for certain conditions, it would be much more powerful too!

If you try it, let us know how it goes!


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## aubie

DH and I talked last night and (contingent on our meeting with the vet Monday) we'll probably go with the laser treatment, and I found a holistic vet about 20 min away that does acupuncture. 

While not really "natural" we'rethinking the laser is less invasive. If it doesn' work we can try the adequan.


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## LisaT

A lot of people, who wouldn't normally go in this direction, do because of the risks that the conventional meds carry, particularly long term. If you can make your dog feel better, without harming them, and in fact using a modality which actually improves their health rather than not, then it's win-win.

I hope that it works out -- I would still consider adding a HA supplement!


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## aubie

What's a HA supplement? Like Dasiquin? We're going to keep him on that.


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## LisaT

Sorry, it's hyaluronic acid. Similar to some of the ingredients in Dasiquin, just different. I have the dogs on glucosmaine, chondroitin (Cosequin), and HA. Sometimes I add cetyl-myristoleate.


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## debbiebrown

Hylauronic Acid i believe...(sp)

i agree to go less evasive first, try all the alternatives first, if all else fails go conventional.

Can you do both the Adaquin and K-laser at the same time? i don't know why it couldn't be done since the Adaquin is not a drug.

best of luck!
debbie


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## debbiebrown

Ha! Lisa beat me to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!







LOL!


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: debbiebHa! Lisa beat me to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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> LOL!


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## aubie

Thanks guys! I'll look into it and see if I can get some.


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## aubie

Okay, I just did a quick search..which do you suggest? Liquid or tablet? Does it need to be specific for K9 or does the human form work? Well, okay, what do you use?


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## GSD10

I did a few Laser treatments with Mas around this time last year. I stopped into the fall because the vet had to shave his fur down to get a good shot with the laser and I didn't want Mas to have a chilly leg during the colder season









I think that in combination with accupuncture and the cartophen shots the laser was starting to work for him. Now after a couple of years of accupunture, that doesn't seem to have the same positive results as it used to. 

I would say to certainly give the Laser treatment a go!


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## LisaT

Liquid or capsule? Are you talking about HA? I give a capsule.


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## aubie

Okay, thanks! 

We talked to our vet today, he says the kidney/liver values aren't anywhere near a dangerous/concern range, just different from his last bloodwork. He wants to drop the Deramaxx down to a few days a week with the Dasiquin still everyday with the fish oil. If he does fine with this, we'll take out the Deramaxx all together. He hopes that the Dasiquin will be enough, but if we notice any change (pain, slowness, etc) creeping back in we'll do the laser instead of going back to the Deramaxx. (we dont' buy the Deramaxx from them so I know he's not trying to make $$ of the prescription). He's hoping the Dasiquin will be enough, but if not we'll go to the next option and stay off the Deramaxx. 

I'm going to get some HA and see if that helps as well.


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## RebelGSD

A human friend of mine is partially paralyzed as a consequence of an immune system disorder. She did "cold " laser treatments with a chiropractor and she felt that they helped her tremendously by improving mobility. The "cold" laser term is a misnomer though. It probably means that the dominant effect is not heating but some other interaction of electromagnetic energy with living tissue.


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## Lauri & The Gang

A lady that brings her Beagle and Dachshunds to our lure coursing recently had laser treatments on one of the Dachshunds.

He had ruptured a disc and was paralyzed from the waist back.

FIVE weeks after that he is running and playing almost like normal!

They used a Class IV laser.

Here is the link to the vet they used and her info on the laser treatments:

http://www.pawsitivelybalanced.com/23801.html


This is Peanut the Dachshund just TWO WEEKS after the laser treatments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y49XN3DFEXo&feature=channel

And again just FIVE weeks after treatments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKYyOPO_Sms&feature=channel


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## LisaT

That is so cool!


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## aubie

Wow. Our vet said they had some extreme cases and amazing turn arounds after the laser. I hope he does fine on just the Dasiquin, but if we have to do something, we're def giving this a shot!


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## aubie

Just an update since it's been over a week:

I'm giving the Deramaxx every third day. Each morning I'm giving him a Dasiquin, the HA and fish oil. So far no ill effects of lowering the Deramaxx. Still active, up and down not problem and getting in and out of the car fine. 

I'm going to stop the Deramaxx completely after tomorrow and see how it goes.


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## LisaT

I hope it goes well!


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## aubie

Well, I spoke too soon. While at the beach he seemed to get a little worse, slower and one time his leg went out. Soooo we began the k-laser treatments today.

The doc is pretty hopefull that it will work. She said most dogs when they come in are in pretty bad shape (already with some atrophy) but since he's not to that point, it should really help him.

It took about 15-20 min. It's a warm laser and he seemed to really enjoy it. She called it his "spa treatment". She said he may be a little sore tonight, but we should see improvement by the next two sessions. It's a six session treatment in the beginning at $270 total. Then we can do one treatment every month or so as needed. It's supposed to rejuvinate blood flow, reduce inflamation and increase joint fluids. We'll be keeping him on the Dasiquin, HA and fish oils.

He seemed to really enjoy it...he got so relaxed he let out a big burp. Classy!


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## LisaT

**burp**









I'm hoping that this will make him feel a lot better!


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## aubie

Well after treatment one: yesterday he seemed to feel good, a little more spry. Last night he was sore, you could just tell in that it took him a little while to get up/lay down. The doc prepared us for this saying it was like he got a deep tissue massage and might be a little tight/sore.

We gave a baby asprin and this morning he seemed fine. Treatment two is tomorrow morning.


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## Chicagocanine

This is interesting. My vet recently got a therapeutic laser but I don't know much about it. I did acupuncture and hydrotherapy with my two senior dogs which seemed to help but I never tried the laser therapy because my vet didn't have it...


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## LisaT

That's a positive report -- I hope it just keeps getting better with each treatment!


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## aubie

Update:

After treatment three we're not seeing a whole bunch...not as slow to get up but not as active as he was on the Deramaxx. We have three treatments left....I'm hoping to see something by the end of this week. If not, looks like the adequan injections will be the next course.


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## LisaT

I hope the remaining treatments bring some more significant improvement!


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## aubie

Treatment four update:

This morning I expressed my concerns of no improvement, so they re-adjusted the settings and also did the treatment on his knees. They were shocked we hadn't seen any improvement. After leaving he did seem to have a little bounce in his step...


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## LisaT

Feedback is always good -- hopefully it will produce better results now!


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## aubie

He seemed a lot more peppy this morning...rolling around on his back and all...something I haven't seen in a while. He's smiling more and seems to be in less pain...played with Anna last night as well for a little bit. I'm hoping a new setting is all that was needed!


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## LisaT

Good to hear. Too bad they probably won't throw in an extra treatment


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## aubie

Ha ha! I know! I wish they would, but don't think that will happen!

Treatment five was this morning...he does have more pep...moving around more, def seems to be in less pain. Trotting instead of just slowly walking, getting into the car easily. One more treatment Monday then we'll see how often they want to do them after that...but I'm sooo happy to be seeing improvement!


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## aubie

Treatment five night update:

Wow, I can tell a big difference since they changed the setting and his second treatment on this setting...he's about to the same level he was when on the Deramaxx! Chasing Anna, playing, getting up with little or no effort! This is so crazy! But in a good way.









I admit, I had my doubts but it seems to be working...


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## LisaT

Way cool - I'm glad it worked well enough to make a believer out of you - it's great to see them feel so much better!


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## aubie

The last treatment was today...and I can't believe how this has worked. His activity level is the same if not better as it was on the Deramaxx...HE'S waking us up in the morning, not us having to make him get up. He only has a small delay in getting up, but seems to be pain free. I'm shocked. I thought after treatment 3 this was bumpkis and I just wasted $270 but after the knee setting, we're doing great.

Course of action now: have follow up treatments every 2-3 weeks for about 3 months. Then, we'll go down to a treatment every month, then hopefully every quarter. 

Also, they ran his bloodwork again just to make sure everything was okay, I was shocked when the vet walked in and was like "his bloodwork is fantastic! He's an 11 yo dog and has the bloodwork of a 3 yo dog! At first I thought we'd mixed up the results!" 

I kept my trap shut about his RAW diet, but giggled inside. Anyway, we're staying with this for now, not looking at the adequan injections. I still want to make an appt. with a holistic vet to get some accupuncture done as well. 

If anyone has any questions about K-laser let me know...it looks like a realistic option for our older, arthritic, pained puppers!


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## LisaT

Way cool, what a great report


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## aubie

Update:

So it's been 11 days since his last treatment, and we're still going strong! Playing, running, rolling around on his back, active etc. We have a follow up treatment Monday morning, but so far, so good! 

I'm still keeping up with the fish oil, dasiquin, HA supplement and any chews he gets have glu/chro in them.


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## aubie

Just an update, we were able to wait a month between treatments this time. Still going strong and happy. He does start to slow down a little and that's when I can tell he needs his next treatment. Individual treatments are costing me about $55 a month. His regimen consists of monthly treatments, Dasiquin, HA, fish oils and any cartilage rich foods (esophogus, chick feet, skate tail, etc).

My boss' elder collie was having some issues as well, I refered her to my vet and this treatment and after finding the setting that seems to work best, is seeing improvement.


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## LisaT

That's really cool. And for $55 a month, very reasonable. I can't get acupuncture for that price!


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## punseyk

*K-Laser*

Just starting our K-Laser treatments. very exciting and I hope it is all worth it. I would do almost anything to help our boy Titan! I will let you all know how it goes. He has hip dyspalsia in one of the hips and arthitis in the back. Crossing my fingers and toes )


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## arycrest

Thanks for sharing this information ... sounds like something I'll try with my seniors. I wonder if it would help with Cauda Equina???


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