# WGSL puppy starting in Schutzhund/protection



## FridaVon97 (Mar 20, 2021)

Hi all. 
I am very new to this world with the goal of getting into Schutzhund and personal protection work. I just picked up my west german showline puppy today after reading a bunch of conflicting information on SL vs WL. I am still feeling pretty torn on my decision to go with a show line. 
I was hoping to hear your thoughts on the matter as well as any tips for improving drive and getting her started in that direction. Thanks in advance!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Does this breeder produce dogs that regularly excel at SCH and personal protection?

IMO, the chances of getting a SL dog that is suitable for either of these activities are small. If your goal is to do work with the dog, getting a WL pup from a breeder that regularly produces the type of dog you are after stacks the odds in your favor.

Now that you have the dog, you have to train what you have. I suggest you find a local SCH club and take your pup in for evaluation and guidance.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

FridaVon97 said:


> Hi all.
> I am very new to this world with the goal of getting into Schutzhund and personal protection work. I just picked up my west german showline puppy today after reading a bunch of conflicting information on SL vs WL. I am still feeling pretty torn on my decision to go with a show line.
> I was hoping to hear your thoughts on the matter as well as any tips for improving drive and getting her started in that direction. Thanks in advance!


If she's a dog you're happy with aside from sport, its not a bad decision for you to start out. What I'd do is basically what David mentioned, and start working with a club and put a very positive foundation on her. I'd put any personal protection training on the back burner and see how you do with sport.


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## FridaVon97 (Mar 20, 2021)

Ok, that's what I was thinking as well. Thanks guys!


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

I'm pretty much a novice at the sport, and have not titled a dog. So take it for what it's worth, I suppose. On the other hand, my wife and I have two young working line dogs and have attended Schutzhund training very regularly, 1 to 2 sessions per week over the last year, other than a short break for COVID. So you are getting a perspective from someone who is learning the sport from scratch. 

I've seen new dogs come, some stay, some go. Working lines, a few show lines, one Mal, several Dobes, a few Rottweillers. 
The Dobes are stars, though that has a lot to do with their owner/trainer's level of commitment, and the fact that they've been at it a while. Two are seasoned in trials, and titled at a Sch III/ IPO3 level. 
Mals are a bit underrepresented at our club. One floats in, and he certainly has some drive. Most of the regular dogs are working line, but not every single one. 

The club trainers look for prey drive in a young puppy, usually evidenced by an eagerness to bark in frustration during rag work, chase the rag, and when offered a bite, clamping down on it pretty good. Ball drive and/or willingness to focus intently on their handler in heeling is also sought after. 

I'd say as to many of the needed attributes, e.g., biddability, ball work, I don't know of a reason why some Show Lines could NOT do it. 
But some of the sharp prey drive and defensive drives have been softened a good bit in the show lines relative to the working lines.

I think you'd know more after a couple of sessions at a Schutzhund club, doing some rag work and maybe some early stage focused heeling with a seasoned trainer. 
Leaky drive, or puppies doing puppy things, and getting off task is not unusual at all.

But if the dog does not seem engaged in rag work at all, I'll just be honest, if that drive is not in them at least a little, I'm not sure you can bring it out through drills.


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## FridaVon97 (Mar 20, 2021)

Squidwardp said:


> I'm pretty much a novice at the sport, and have not titled a dog. So take it for what it's worth, I suppose. On the other hand, my wife and I have two young working line dogs and have attended Schutzhund training very regularly, 1 to 2 sessions per week over the last year, other than a short break for COVID. So you are getting a perspective from someone who is learning the sport from scratch.
> 
> I've seen new dogs come, some stay, some go. Working lines, a few show lines, one Mal, several Dobes, a few Rottweillers.
> The Dobes are stars, though that has a lot to do with their owner/trainer's level of commitment, and the fact that they've been at it a while. Two are seasoned in trials, and titled at a Sch III/ IPO3 level.
> ...


Great answer, I really appreciate it! I suppose we'll just have to join up with a club and see what she wants to do


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## FridaVon97 (Mar 20, 2021)

David Winners said:


> Does this breeder produce dogs that regularly excel at SCH and personal protection?
> 
> IMO, the chances of getting a SL dog that is suitable for either of these activities are small. If your goal is to do work with the dog, getting a WL pup from a breeder that regularly produces the type of dog you are after stacks the odds in your favor.
> 
> Now that you have the dog, you have to train what you have. I suggest you find a local SCH club and take your pup in for evaluation and guidance.


Would you be willing to peak at her pedigree and tell me your thoughts?


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Personal protection is very open ended and ultimately depends on your expectations and goals there. Schutzhund depends on a lot of things. All reputable WGSL breeders are breeding dogs titled in schutzhund, so I would expect the puppy to have some potential. Ultimately it will probably come down to the work you are willing to put in.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

You can probably get to club level BH (well worth the work in any line) and even up to IGP 3. But you most likely will have to push harder to keep your dog motivated.
If the club will have you, I think training toward even the IGP1 can teach you so much and build a great bond that it is worth the try. If you want to excel in the sport, the club can help you find a better pup in the future.


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## FridaVon97 (Mar 20, 2021)

Thank you both! That makes me feel better.
Both of her parents are titled and of rather nice pedigree as far as I'm understanding Litter from Action Vom Haus Godwin and Israel vom Demina Hof


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I see quite a few showlines that can get titles, but they are training in a club that is dominated with showlines and the training director/club owner knows how to tap the drive and teach the handler how to engage. 
I think getting with a good trainer is key in how far you can go and how motivated you are. Protection phase is about the only phase that is mostly about the dog, and genetics can't be trained out, but many train to disguise the weaknesses. Enjoy your pup and the journey!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

FridaVon97 said:


> Would you be willing to peak at her pedigree and tell me your thoughts?


I don't pedigree 

There are really smart, educated, experienced people on the board that will give opinions on the ped.

I have trained a lot of military dogs. Most of those dogs had already passed a selection process. I did not have access to the pedigree of those dogs. None of those dogs looked anything like a WGSL dog. The criteria for the program in which I was a trainer was fairly high. Most of those dogs were Czech and or Dutch. 

I have a 1yo WL pup. We go out for at least an hour every morning and do adventure/Nosework training, and usually for another hour in the afternoon. We also train a lot in the living room, kitchen, bedroom, bathroom... It's a lifestyle.

You can't really dabble in personal protection. It's an all in kind of thing. If you have a dog that is willing and trained to honestly protect you, you need to know how to handle that dog. That's a steep learning curve for most people.


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## FridaVon97 (Mar 20, 2021)

That's what I'm on the search for now! It's proving a bit difficult though. Any recommendations for a good one near Richmond Virginia? 😅


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

FridaVon97 said:


> That's what I'm on the search for now! It's proving a bit difficult though. Any recommendations for a good one near Richmond Virginia? 😅


What are you referring to?

Dog, trainer, club?

If you are responding to a particular post, you can hit reply and it will quote that specific post.


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## FridaVon97 (Mar 20, 2021)

David Winners said:


> What are you referring to?
> 
> Dog, trainer, club?
> 
> If you are responding to a particular post, you can hit reply and it will quote that specific post.


Preferably a club but anyone I can get ahold of would be awesome! Thanks, will do!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Perhaps Tidewater. Just remember as you contact clubs, that the officers of the clubs are all volunteers and donate their time. It may take awhile for them to get back to you. If you don't hear from them check back, but be considerate. 

We trained at WAG in Waldorf MD. Find a club

here are the USCA clubs in your area Region/Events | United Schutzhund Clubs of America


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## FridaVon97 (Mar 20, 2021)

car2ner said:


> Perhaps Tidewater. Just remember as you contact clubs, that the officers of the clubs are all volunteers and donate their time. It may take awhile for them to get back to you. If you don't hear from them check back, but be considerate.
> 
> We trained at WAG in Waldorf MD. Find a club
> 
> here are the USCA clubs in your area Region/Events | United Schutzhund Clubs of America


Thank you! I emailed them


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