# problems with our 2 males



## puppycraze (Jul 20, 2007)

*problems with our 2 males*

We have a 17 months male Hudson and a 10 months male Ruger. Occasionally out of the blue (or so it seems to us) Hudson will go after Ruger he will growl first and then charge. Tonight they were about 15 feet away from each other, we heard Hudson growl and charge after Ruger, Ruger couldn't run fast enough. Hudson grabs Ruger by the neck and shakes.

Just wondering how to handle this kind of situation, I will grab Hudson off of Ruger (Hudson will stand there growling) I hold on to him until he settles down and then I place him in his crate. 

It seems to be getting worse, I'm afraid that Hudson might bite one of us. Neither one of them are neutered yet, we are planning on neutering Hudson in the next month. Will this help at all or make no difference.

Thanks for the help, Debbie


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## puppycraze (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: problems with our 2 males*

They can get along great for weeks and than Ruger can't make a move without Hudson going after him. Ruger is afraid to move anywhere when Hudson is around.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: problems with our 2 males*

Unfortuneately, issues like this aren't uncommon with 2 puppies. It's why almost all responsible breeders won't sell 2 littermates to the same person. To try to make it easier and set up everyone for success.

Neuter them. I believe the testosterone just adds to the problem. But even if they were, they still are maturing and getting into adolescence (for the next year!). Juggling for their position in the pack, and it's easy to juggle cause they are BOTH up for the position due to the fact they are so close in age. 

The biggest help in this situation though, isn't that they are figuring out whos the leader between themselves. But maybe more that YOU aren't enough of a leader over all. Because, for me, when my girls start getting that look in their eye, I step in BEFORE the one on one starts. And if I'm late and they do get too intense, I know they still do it keeping an eye out for me and KNOWING I'm coming and they are both in trouble. In my house, they take turns pushing the limits.

Since you clearly have one 'bully' in the house, in some ways it may be easier. But you need to change things around 180% right now. How awful it must be for your Ruger to constantly be afraid and looking over his shoulder in a place (the home) that should be the best and safest place in the world. 

And you are letting it happen (not on purpose, but it's still your home and your responsibility).

DOG CLASSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right now. And if you are in classes with Hudson and he's still getting worse, get a new trainer. His life needs to be turned around because it's clear he's running the house right now and just humoring you to let you think you have some control. 

SOCIALIZATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take that Hudson out of the house, in the car and to new situations that will allow him to see you in calm control in any situation. So he'll learn to look to you and see how other seem to respoct and defer to you. 

NILF for Hudson http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm has info.

Neuter them, never leave them alone together, and step in earlier if you even THINK there is going to be a problem. 

Please remember, dog fights can be serious with expensive vet visits, permanent injuries to dogs (and humans), or even fatal injuries. Some homes have dogs that NEVER can be loose at the same time, constant juggling between crates/closed off rooms.


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## puppycraze (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: problems with our 2 males*

IT doesn't happen all the time, it can go for weeks or months without issue and then one day Hudson attacks, this might go on for a day or two then everything is fine again. I watch them closely but I haven't seen any signs from Hudson. Ruger can be laying on his mat and all of a sudden from another room Hudson will charge. Our dogs have to sit or down for everything they do or get.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

*2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

It doesn't matter that this isn't happening all the time. That's probably because your one dog is so fearful most the time he makes sure to tiptoe around all the time.

You can either take some of the recommendations and help the situation. Or do nothing and it will continue or get worse.

Every suggestion I made are ones I do on a daily basis in my home so it can be done easily and well. So both dogs are happy.


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## puppycraze (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

I am not saying I wont try everything for my dogs I just thought I would explain the situation a little more. Most of the time they are the best of friends. One is not fearful all the time. My dogs go lots of places with us, and I am waiting to start another class unfortunaly the teacher has been ill lately and there are not much to choose from around here.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

If you are applying the leadership rules that MRL suggests and still having issues than suggest you neuter immediately. That may reduce or alleviate the problem. 

Also suggest Hudson always wear a leash tab long enough for you to grab hold of easily. That may make it easier for you to get him and head him off. 

I will admit I have an 11 month old male pup and a 9 year old male GSD. They have had "discussions". The same pup and my 5 1/2 year old female have clashed. The pup gets neutered next month as he will be 13 months old then. The majority of the time they all get along and play well together. So I see where you say it does not happen often. But in my house I have pretty much figured out what situations precipitate this and I am in position to thwart it immediately. The biggest trigger for Havoc is the neighbor's Sheltie and fence running with it. If I call off my dogs, Havoc, in his aroused state, turns on Kayos, who is simply trying to comply. My solutions to this are not perfect. I try not to put mine out when I know the neighbor dogs are out. Can't always do that and my nighbor will let his out when mine are out. When this happens I don't call them off from the door like I did before Havoc jpined us, I walk to a position where I can force a correction if I need to and protect Kayos. She knows to run to me when I call off and Havoc knows if he charges her he will face the music. I always stand tall and set an aithoritative look on my face and the voice to match. I DO NOT yell or scream. Leaders don't push or scream to get results they simply are.

I have news for you, Hudson does give signals and so does Ruger you need to be watchful and observant to see them and step in as soon as you see them.


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## puppycraze (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

All I wanted was some help, I wanted to know what I could do if a fight started again. I didn't want my actions to the situation to make it worse. and all I got was slapped in the face. I didn't want to make a mistake and now I will never come here again for any advice, thank you


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

I got two females that have a lot of training and obedience, They'll even work together, but if they don't see me they start ranking on each other. when I'm not there they are in kennels.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*



> Originally Posted By: puppycrazeAll I wanted was some help, I wanted to know what I could do if a fight started again. I didn't want my actions to the situation to make it worse. and all I got was slapped in the face. I didn't want to make a mistake and now I will never come here again for any advice, thank you


seriously? you've gotten good advice. 

and good advice to stop a fight from starting, which is what you should be focusing on, not what you can do if a fight starts again. if i may say so. 

i agree with kathy w - i have a dog that gives off minimal warning, and it took me awhile to learn it (nobody's perfect, especially me), but it is there.


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## puppycraze (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

I understand it is good advice, but apparently somewhere in there I said that I wasn't going to try any of it, hence the new title. It got my back up. 
I will try all the advice, I don't want me or the dogs getting hurt. I am hoping to start classes again soon and they will be neutered.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*



> Quote:I will try all the advice, I don't want me or the dogs getting hurt. I am hoping to start classes again soon and they will be neutered.





























































It's much easier to prevent a fight with managment and leadership, than break one up once it's begun. So good for you for getting a plan in place.

And I changed the subject to make it more specific, hoping there would be more responses to help you. I know when I get no (or few) responses, I can usually link it back to either a vague or confusing Subject and when people are busy and only breezing thru the Subjects I don't get the help I'm asking for.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

Are those your boys? The GSD and the Malamute? I know the Mal people talk about alpha peaking happening as dogs mature and same sex aggression. Just seeing if one is, because it may also help to talk to Mal folks too!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

Sorry you felt slapped. Not my intention and perhaps I could have worded the response better. 

Glad you are getting them neutered.


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## puppycraze (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

The Malamute is our 9yr female Keena. We have two GSD males Ruger and Hudson. Hudson was a rescue, we have no idea what he has gone through all we know is that he was removed from his home at 3 months and that he is nervous of people even the ones he has met before. He is improving slowly.

Sorry any excuse for showing them off



















Thanks again everyone


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*



> Quote:Sorry any excuse for showing them off


All 3 of your dogs are well worth showing off!


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

they are gorgeous


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*



> Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLee
> 
> 
> > Quote:Sorry any excuse for showing them off
> ...


DITTO!!!!


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## Tina & Dave (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

Hi Deb, 

Boy the boys have grown ... and so darn handsome... 

You got good responses and I am sure you will give them a great go. If you think you need to talk more about this let me know and perhaps we can chat on the phone. 

Tina


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## puppycraze (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

Thanks Tina I just might do that. Any idea of a good place to take him for classes, I just know the one Monica goes too


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## Tina & Dave (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: 2 males DOG FIGHTS! To do nothing ok???*

Deb, 

There is a doggie care in Barrie that offers obedience classes, I will try to get the name from the rescue I work with. I will say though if Monica is happy with the place she goes to I would try there. In my opinion word of mouth is the best. 

If you need to talk PM me and I will send you my number...though I think I sent it to your hubby a while back. 

Leadership and management is the place to start with the boys... it can certainly be a handful I know... but once they understand this things will settle down. My last foster would challenge old Ben every once in awhile but learning the signals sure helps to stop any trouble. By the time he left he knew 'knock it off' meant I meant business. He absolutely hated time outs!

Tina


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