# Breeder says he has fleas!!....Need advice!!



## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Just got a call from my breeder. She said that she went and picked up the dogs from the other breeder and they had fleas. She said she bathed them in Pomolive (she said it's supposed to get rid of them) but that she is not comfortable using any of the flea meds/dips on them...

She said to keep him in the kitchen (linolium floor) until monday and just get him dipped at the vet. My fear is that the eggs and fleas are going to spread all over the house!

WHAT DO I DO?!?!


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

You can get some food grade DE anddust him with it. It will kill all the fleas. If he is 8 weeks you can use one of the topical flea products, I have used fronline and advantage on young pups if I absolutely had to in the past. I don't use the whole amount. I wouldn't dip a pup, I would use a topical product instead.


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## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

What is DE?

How do I do a topical??

I'm actually on the pnone with an emergency vet and the woman is checking on some prescription that she is not sure will kill the eggs. 

Capstar is what she's mentioning

Thanks!

-Emt1581


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## CVF_Kennel (Aug 7, 2008)

eek, fleas! Even if the dog doesn't bring them into the house, people can do that. The fleas simply ride in on a person's pantslegs.


Wait for winter.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Give the dog a Capstar once a day for 2-3 days. If it's old enough, apply Frontline PLus to prevent future outbreaks. Keep him on linoleum for a day or so until the Capstar takes effect, then when he moves around the house treat the area he was first staying in with a spray product that contains an Insect Growth Regulator (the ONLY way to guarantee "killing" the eggs, which will fall off a dog that visibly has fleas). If you don't have the dog yet, you may want to treat your entire house with sprays and/or powder that contains IGR. Most products last for a year. Then if he comes in and drops eggs, they will die.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Any bath will do to kill live fleas. If you have any johnson's baby shampoo, give him a good solid sink bath.

I wouldn't get him dipped that might be traumatic. Otto was put on k=9 advantix the day of his first vet visit at 8 weeks and one day.


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## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies!

Here's what we're doing. We are going to go over to the breeders now and take a look at the puppy/play with him. If there's no sores anywhere and his temperment is good we're going to leave him at the breeders until monday. That way we can take him directly to the vet from the breeder and leave out any chance of the eggs/fleas being in our home. 

Thanks!

-Emt1581


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Just keep in mind that Capstar, dips, shampoos, etc kill adult fleas but do not kill eggs, the only way to kill eggs is to interrupt their life cycle. Also, adult fleas will stay on the dog (the dog would have to be sick for the fleas to want to jump off and find something else) but the eggs drop off so if you see adult fleas, assume there are eggs on the floors, furniture, clothing, etc.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I put revolution on puppies at six weeks and have never had a problem. Yes I get it from the vet and pay about 10-12 bucks for it. First one might be free sample. By the time you take them home, you should be able to use advantage. 

DO NOT USE ANYTHING YOU CAN BUY AT THE DRUG STORE YOU ARE LIABLE TO KILL YOUR PUPPY.

That will take care of fleas in your house as well. They will never get a toe hold. Vaccume the carpet and treat the dog with Revolution and you will never have another problem. I have not. But I treat mine every six weeks because it covers heart worm too.


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## CVF_Kennel (Aug 7, 2008)

okay, let me tell you the truth. I have used flea baths several times, dog flea spray several times, house flea spray several times, bug bombs several times, and Advantage. 

One would think that the fleas would have been wasted...completely eliminated....*poof* gone.

Have I mentioned that it is necessary to spray the entire outside property so that the dogs or people don't carry in more fleas? 

Just don't eat the g------ things and you will be okay.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

What can you do? 1. Chill. If you are going to be feaked by a few fleas, you are going to have a hard time with a dog.

Fleas are much easier to deal with now than they used to be but please wait a while before beginning chemical warfare on this youngster. 

Now that you've calmed down -- Get a flea comb & comb those bugs off him into a jar of alcohol. Then give him a nice gentle bath to get any flea dirt off of him. Make it all fun for the pup and for you too.

I've used an herbal mixture before with great success but I would hesitate to use that on a pup, too. I think combing and bathing will do the trick.


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## Karla_Calderon (May 15, 2005)

Frontline Plus kills flea eggs and can be used on puppies at 8 weeks. I'd prefer this over dips and shampoos.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Capstar, then frontline or advantix. Advantix you can use at 7 wks.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Living in a rural area that has had a relatively warm last winter, we've seen a couple of fleas this year. Here's what we do for fleas:

Wash pet bedding in the washing machine.

Spray couch and other places pets hang out with a natural, herbal flea spray. The kind we use is NaturVet, which contains rosemary, cedar oil, lanolin, mineral oil and water - no harsh chemicals. It smells nice, too.









Vacuum often. (I vacuum everyday.) After vacuuming, empty the vacuum canister into a trash bag and take it outside to the trash immediately. Wash out the canister if you use a bagless vacuum.

Wash pets with a mild soap, letting the suds sit on them for a couple of minutes, which kills the fleas. You don't need a harsh flea shampoo - Johnson & Johnson baby shampoo (pH neutral) works great, as does your regular dog shampoo, but it has to sit for a couple of minutes.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you have a canister vacuum you can also put a flea collar inside the canister (but DONT put one on the puppy!).


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I would NOT use any of the chemicals mentioned on a young puppy. I don't care if they are safe for puppies or not - I hesitate to use them on my adults.

Middle had the best answer. Get yourself a cheap flea comb and filla glass with some alcohol (or just very hot water with some liquid soap in it.

Wash the puppy with a GENTLE shampoo - not a flea-killing chemically-loaded one. Start at the tail and work your way up the body - loading it with the suds as you go. The fleas will flee - to the head. Use the comb to remove the fleas and dunk them in the glass of booze (or plain alcohol).

If you can do this at the breeders house then you can bring the puppy home and not have too many worries.


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## Karla_Calderon (May 15, 2005)

The problem I see with not using a chemical is that you also open up the possibility for ticks. We don't have fleas - have never seen one, but ticks scare the heck out of me. I believe Pa (OP's Loc) is quite prevalent for ticks carrying Lyme. I had to make a well thought out decision long ago when we started having pups and with our adult dogs with whether or not to use a preventative such as Frontline. I chose the chemical as I would rather that then lyme or erlichious (sp?). Something to consider...


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## mkennels (Feb 12, 2008)

You can use a product called Deflea it is an all natural shampoo that is very gentle can be used on young pups and kills fleas 

http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/shop/index.php?page=shop-flypage-7481


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

One 8 week puppy isn't a big area to flea comb top to bottom, folks. And ticks are easily picked off a small pup too. Their hair (pups! that is) is relatively short, their bodies relatively small...


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## CertainlySpoiled (Dec 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereWhat can you do? 1. Chill. If you are going to be feaked by a few fleas, you are going to have a hard time with a dog.
> 
> Fleas are much easier to deal with now than they used to be but please wait a while before beginning chemical warfare on this youngster.
> 
> ...


I agree, you will need a flea comb and comb every part of his fur, and dip them in rubbing alcohol, this really does work and no harm will be done to the pup!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I agree not to use any of the chemicals mentioned on a young puppy--*and definitely do not get him dipped.* That stuff could KILL him. 

Here is what I use on my own dogs for fleas: 

Shampoo: http://www.pretentiouspooch.com/store/azmiraneem.html
Spray: http://www.pretentiouspooch.com/store/azmiraneemspray.html?site=google_base

And a good flea comb! No chemicals, no side effects and they work!

And how much do you know about this breeder? Will the pup be coming with any other health problems?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereOne 8 week puppy isn't a big area to flea comb top to bottom, folks. And ticks are easily picked off a small pup too. Their hair (pups! that is) is relatively short, their bodies relatively small...


Sounds like a good idea to me if the OP can do this at the breeder. Otherwise there will be eggs and it will perpetuate the cycle. When Kenya had fleas it was not even that bad, but neither a topical (BioSpot) or several flea baths and combing solved the problem. The adult fleas would die or jump off but there were eggs. We never got rid of them all until I treated the eggs. Haven't seen a flea on my five animals or near my house since.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Quote:The problem I see with not using a chemical is that you also open up the possibility for ticks.


For what it's worth, my experience with topical chemical and ticks has been less than stellar. I've picked ticks off my dog while she was on Frontline, Advantage, and Advantix. In the end, we decided to call it quits with the chemicals and try a different product.

What we use now is Bug Band. (It's a product name, not actually a band.) They make a variety of things, such as granules to treat your yard with, pet bedding, wrist bands, and a pump spray. We use the pump spray on ourselves and our dog, and have not found any ticks on her, even during weekends in the woods, while using the spray.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

My dogs spend a lot of time in tick infested places. This year I found several on ME but NONE on my dogs. That's because I feed them Bug Off Garlic. I've been using it for 5 years and in that time have found only one tick on my dogs.


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## Karla_Calderon (May 15, 2005)

FWIW, I've not had any problems with Advantix or Frontline Plus. I use both depending on the dog (Frontline plus for breeding females and Advantix for all others). Retired or non-working/breeding dogs are on Preventik collars since we have no fleas. Adv


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## Karla_Calderon (May 15, 2005)

Sorry - my last post got cut off due to internet problems... Advantage on the other hand, I believe is not meant for ticks. 

I'll have to check out Bug Band.


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## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Just got a call from my breeder. She said that she gave him another bath today and found ONE flea on him. Last night we found...ONE flea...so other than the initial discovery (she said she found 4 dead ones) this doesn't look like a typical case of fleas. I think they jumped on to my dog from another dog during the car ride home from NY.

Anyways, she said she is on the road right now to buy Capstar. It's a 6-day treatment pill or something. I'm hoping that gets rid of everything.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: Oh the one thing I'm curious about is the life-cycle and longevity of a flea? It was mentioned that the only real way to kill the eggs is to interrupt the life-cycle so that none can be layed...

Thanks!

-Emt1581


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## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

Another question...

Do I need to take any precautions when transporting him? 

Should I cover my car seat with a bag or anything? 

Thanks!

-Emt1581


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Wow, I generally use Revolution at 8 weeks old. I have never had a problem. 

Never see feas either. It is safe for pregnant bitches too. What are the concerns. Is this a general lack of faith in chemically controlling pests or have their been serious implications to dogs that people have had due to Revolution?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Whole Dog Journal Fall 2000 - Winter 2001 or so had a series of articles - three of them. They outlined the issues with these highly toxic chemicals, discussed the issues with fleas and ticks, and offered alternatives. These are HIGHLY TOXIC chemicals. They caution you to wear gloves when applying, not to have the chemical come into contact with your skin -- and you are applying it directly to your dog's skin?????? And you don't see a problem with this???? Oey Feh!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Whole Dog Journal Fall 2000 - Winter 2001 or so had a series of articles - three of them. They outlined the issues with these highly toxic chemicals, discussed the issues with fleas and ticks, and offered alternatives. These are HIGHLY TOXIC chemicals. They caution you to wear gloves when applying, not to have the chemical come into contact with your skin -- and you are applying it directly to your dog's skin?????? And you don't see a problem with this???? Oey Feh!


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Well, my dogs haven't had any problem with Advantix... neither have I -lol.

I don't use gloves - maybe that's why I don't get ticks?


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

The pesticide that is in Frontline is the same pesticide that is used on Bananas. (Please don't ask me why I know that!) All the flea products work fairly well, with little risk to anyone. With Advantix, you have to be careful around cats. It is highly toxic to them, so if any cats is going to be grooming a dog(as mine do) I would say fronline or Advantage is better. If you use a good flea product for 3 months straight, you should be able to disrupt the egg cycle.


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## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BJDimockThe pesticide that is in Frontline is the same pesticide that is used on Bananas. (Please don't ask me why I know that!) All the flea products work fairly well, with little risk to anyone. With Advantix, you have to be careful around cats. It is highly toxic to them, so if any cats is going to be grooming a dog(as mine do) I would say fronline or Advantage is better. If you use a good flea product for 3 months straight, you should be able to disrupt the egg cycle.



3 MONTHS?!?!?! Why is the Capstar only a 6-DAY supply?

Again, what is the life-span and cycle of a flea?

Thanks!

-Emt1581


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I think you're getting a little carried away--unless the dog is infested then it should be no problem. I found a flea on Rafi a little over a month ago. None of my animals are on pesticides. I gave him a bath with the NEEM stuff I linked to above, I sprayed him with the NEEM spray and for several days afterwards I checked him and my other animals with a flea comb. No more fleas or flea dirt and no additional fleas have appeared in my house or on the dogs since then. 

In answer to people's questions about pesticide use on dogs--the best evidence we have that there is a problem is the skyrocketing rate of cancer in dogs (much higher than the human cancer rate). This could be from the pesticides we use on our lawns and elsewhere in our environment, in their food and on their bodies or it could be a combination of all of the above with other factors added in as well.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Maybe it is from early speuter. There has been a great rise in speutering your pets in the last eight or ten years.


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## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: selzerMaybe it is from early speuter. There has been a great rise in speutering your pets in the last eight or ten years.


Speuter? Never heard of it.

Thanks!

-Emt1581


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

Speuter = spay/neuter.


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## emt1581 (Sep 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Everett54Speuter = spay/neuter.


The dog was not neutered.

I don't think we are going to neuter him.

-Emt1581


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I think the speuter / neuter post was selzer's suggestion what may be causing the rising rates of cancer in dogs, not a suggestion about when and how the fleas got on your pup.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

The cavalier attitude some of you are expressing regarding using these pesticides parallels that of the general population regarding DDT in the post war years. (In case you have forgotten, this resulted in grave conditions for many birds). Toxins are toxins and best handled with a good deal of respect.


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## Karla_Calderon (May 15, 2005)

I don't believe it is a cavalier attitute. I see it as the lesser of two evils, a decision that must be thought through carefully. Peronally, I've known of too many dogs to have lyme disease and erlichia (sp?). Most of my puppies are gone by 9 weeks so it is up to the new owner what to do as I do not generally have a need to treat them at eight weeks.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

putting a flea preventative on a dog which also manages heartworm and ear mites and other pests, is different than giving heartworm regularly? One kills worms, one kills fleas. 

I live up against a set of woods up against a river, in a hot and often humid area during the summer months. Fleas can be murderous. They can also play host to some types of worms. And ticks can be dangerous too. My dogs are outside all day long, so pests have plenty of opportunity to take hold. 

Also I have a pack of dogs. So if one gets heartworm, the mosquitos will pass it to the others fast. If fleas take hold everyone will be miserable. I also let them in and they sleep in my bed, and I do not want to be miserable. 

I have yet to used rubber gloves to put the stuff on my dogs, and yes, almost every time, some gets on me. I am not overly concerned about it. 

I use it every six weeks, not every four weeks as the packaging suggests. Heartworm is covered for six weeks on the stuff. So that is what I do. 

They do not know why cancer is so bad in our area. Maybe it's the nuke plant, maybe it what we eat or what we breathe. Thing is we all have cancer cells in us. The proliferate when our immune system cannot keep them in check. Spaying and neutering removes hormone producing parts and may play a part in early aging and poor immunity. Vaccinating your pets every year may also contribute to a weakened immune system. 

I guess I will go with flea preventative in flea season, and vaccinate my dogs only every three years, and not speuter and maybe that will cancel out the flea junk.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: selzerFleas can be murderous. They can also play host to some types of worms.


Fleas are not hosts for any type of worms. Fleas, if digested by dogs, MIGHT cause tape worms.



> Quote:*How did my dog or cat get tapeworms?
> 
> By swallowing a flea infected with a tapeworm larvae.
> This process begins when tapeworm eggs are swallowed by flea larvae (an immature stage of the flea). Contact between flea larvae and tapeworm eggs is thought to occur most frequently in contaminated bedding or carpet.
> ...





> Originally Posted By: selzer And ticks can be dangerous too.


That I will agree with. This year was the first time since we moved to WI that I had to use chemical tick treatments. After finding 5 ticks on my Cocker in one day I felt it was called for.



> Quote:Also I have a pack of dogs. So if one gets heartworm, the mosquitos will pass it to the others fast.


It's really not all that easy for HW to be transmitted within a specific area. I will post the facts on HW in another thread.



> Quote:Thing is we all have cancer cells in us.


I beg to differ. We are NOT born with cancer cells in our bodies. They are not a normal part of us.

Everyone can have cells that BECOME cancerous and sometimes our bodies CAN fight them off without help.

But those bad cells were caused by SOMETHING. We don't always know what they are caused by but they don't just magically happen.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Are you a doctor? knew that fleas and tapeworms are connected. Sorry I was not specific about the host thingy. 

Mom had cancer. Colon cancer. learned a lot about it. Was there when we talked to the colonoscopy doctor. Was there when we talked to the rectal surgeon. Lived through the operation with her. Lived through chemo and radiation. Lived through the FU-5?? chemo treatments. Watched chemo try to murder mom. 

Every few months mom goes in and has the blood test and to find her cancer numbers. 

Maybe there are people that have a zero on these numbers, but from what all these doctors have said to me, the cancer is in us, and it is not until the number reaches a certain level that it becomes a concern. 

My little sister has cancer too now. I have seen her get an operation and get checked regularly too. 

I have polyps. Dad has polyps. These polyps WILL become cancerous if we do not get rid of them. 

I think the enemy is time here. Some of us have less time, others have more time, but eventually, the body is going to give out. And if you are 105 and have no cancer at all and your ticker just stops ticking than good for you. 

Our dogs have less time than we do. I do not want to speed up the process by removing hormones, as I believe that either the removal of the hormones or the battery of the surgery reduces the natural immunity and can allow the little cancer cells to take off.


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