# So frustrated... please advise



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

This is kind of a long backstory...an acquaintance of mine passed away recently. She had several GSDs and was very involved in dogs and training. She had no other nuclear family and her relatives were not in a place to take on several GSD and unfortunately she had no backup plan for them. Luckily her friends and acquaintances were able to quickly place all but one. The last one is a four year old male working line GSD. He was already passed around before he was sold to my friend. After she passed, he was taken in by a local trainer/breeder. That person sold him to someone, then THAT person GAVE him away on Craigslist, and then THAT person took him to the shelter and tied him to the fence in the middle of the night!!! The shelter found out who the dog was, got in touched with the deceased sister, and she officially "signed" him over to the shelter and sent them his paperwork. 

Several of us again rallied to help him and we were told by the shelter that they were not releasing him to a rescue, would accept applications for a period of time, then screen everyone and call everyone back. I know multiple people who applied either to permanently adopt him or to offer him a rescue/foster spot. No one, including myself, ever heard back from the shelter one way or the other so we all kind of assumed he found a good home quickly. 

Fast forward like two more months and the shelter calls my friend who runs a rescue in our area saying that the dog in question is STILL at the shelter, not doing well, can she please take him now. This was after my friend/her rescue and several of us who actually KNOW this dog (including one person who is very familiar with his lines as he has bred them) offered to foster or permanently adopt the dog and were told that there was no reason because of the high volume of applications and interest he was getting at the shelter. Once I was tipped off that he was never adopted and no one was ever called back, I tried to contact the shelter to get details and offer help on behalf of my friend who runs the rescue and some other mutual acquaintances of the deceased who were upset and sick to hear that the dog was never placed. I never heard back from the shelter. 

Then last week I get an e-mail from a woman who has adopted him from the shelter. I'm not sure how she got my contact but it doesn't matter. I told her everything I knew about the dog and his training. She said he was in very poor condition (health wise) and has not really been responding as far as bonding, training, etc. Well no kidding...he is now on his NINTH home just since I've know him. The last e-mail I got sounded like she was committed to working with him. That was last week.

Just now I got a voicemail from a mutual acquaintance of the deceased (one who has been helping place all her dogs and make sure they STAY placed) saying that the woman who adopted him doesn't want to keep him and says she has a "contract" to return him to the shelter, but my friend is very worried that they will just PTS because they don't know how to deal with him.

I have no idea what to do. I cannot take in this dog. He is an intact male, same age as Nikon. Nikon is good with all my foster dogs, flyball dogs, and my friend's dogs but he does not like other intact males his age/size and I know that this dog also is not OK with other males. Also I hate to say it but I just don't like this dog, I never have liked his temperament. I want to help him of course, and help my deceased friend, but how the heck am I supposed to place a dog that is now emotionally and physically damaged, going on his tenth home (probably more, since I don't know his full history before my friend bought him but he was passed around before that). I don't know anyone that wants a dog like this, I don't even know anyone that can foster a dog like this right now. He cannot be put in boarding because of his condition and what it does to him being in a kennel. My friend with the rescue is getting SIX dogs in from California on top of the dogs she already has (she is a one person show, bless her heart). Since we do not have as many GSDs in shelters here she raises money and then pulls dogs on death row in CA so she can't just tell them sorry, they can't come because of this stupid shelter here giving us all the run around for the past four months!

OMG *why* do shelters behave this way?!?!?!


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Can you reach out to trainers and other rescues that might be interested? A good temperament evaluation will go a long way. I'm sorry there's not much in the way of advice to offer that I don't think you already know; just wanted to sympathize with you. This is a frustration that I have been having A LOT lately.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

We had multiple rescues ready to take him the first time and now the shelter has cried wolf so many times that no one has time to deal with their BS anymore. Plus, I have my own doubts about the "adoptability" of this dog and his temperament. I've made an offer to my friend that seems like maybe everyone's thinking it but no one has the balls to just do it, if you get my drift.... This dog does NOT have the temperament where he can be passed around like this and he cannot be in just a normal pet home. Maybe it's easier for me because I know the dog and don't particularly like him so I'm not emotionally attached to him and didn't know his owner as well as some of the other people involved. Is it horrible of me to wonder if we just need to go play at the park for an afternoon, get some BK Whoppers, and see the vet one last time? Is he just being passed around because no one has the balls? I was told that when he was finally adopted he was missing hair, had severely infected anal glands oozing blood and puss, and had sarcoptic mange. When I knew him with his owner he was the picture of health, very glossy black coat. The stress is literally killing him slowly.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Liesje said:


> We had multiple rescues ready to take him the first time and now the shelter has cried wolf so many times that no one has time to deal with their BS anymore. Plus, I have my own doubts about the "adoptability" of this dog and his temperament. I've made an offer to my friend that seems like maybe everyone's thinking it but no one has the balls to just do it, if you get my drift.... This dog does NOT have the temperament where he can be passed around like this and he cannot be in just a normal pet home. .


Definitely get it. I get into trouble because those are exactly the kinds of dogs I like working with but adoptability is not high so it takes time, money and space when there are many more that are easier to place. 



Liesje said:


> Is it horrible of me to wonder if we just need to go play at the park for an afternoon, get some BK Whoppers, and see the vet one last time? Is he just being passed around because no one has the balls?


If that is what is in the best interest of the dog, no it's not horrible and it's never any easy decision to make, emotionally involved or not.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I can't even get a good temperament eval because that would be me, my friend with the rescue, or the trainer who already had him and none of us want much to do with him. I call him "quirky". I don't know if he was never a good fit with the owner that passed or what but to me he has always been a very odd GSD. I did not see any of the obvious behavior problems like aggression, reactivity, extreme fear, but....this dog has always seemed very detatched. Like you just cannot connect with him. It's really hard for me to describe. He never acted like a GSD in the good ways or the bad ways. Never seemed to have any real attachment to the handler, not motivated for/by anything, more of a social/interaction problem than lack of drive or some sort of unwanted assertive behavior. And now that he's been passed around another half dozen times I fear what's done is done. If I were in a place where I could consider adopting him I would assume this would take YEARS to overcome.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

How sad.  Maybe if the shelter hadn't ignored everyone who wanted to help earlier he might be in a better situation already. Or maybe not. But if he's so stressed from being passed around that he is unwilling or unable to connect with people, and is having health issues, it might be kinder to give him one last happy day and then let him go. It's horrid that it may come to this, but what are you going to do?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

IMO, I feel the dog has been failed so many times because people were not up front and transparent about his temperament. Saying he was an 'alpha' when in reality he is fear aggressive and reactive. I feel bad for all involved, and don't have the answer because there is no helping this dog. I think your friend knew this as well, and she was his angel. Now that she is a real angel, I wonder if he wouldn't be better off with her once again. 
Sorry, but unless someone else will step up to help him, he's just going to get passed around again or live his life in a kennel. So not fair.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

*sigh* Yes you are exactly right (and you know the dog). I've had tougher times placing far younger, healthier, and more adoptable (temperament) dogs.... I don't see a win-win here. People KEEP calling me about this dog and I try to be honest about what I've seen and heard. He's not some experiment, he is what he is and if no one is prepared to live with that like his owner was then people need to make up their freaking minds and sign him over.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Did John S. contact you? He pm'd me about K a month or two ago, asking if he was still available, though he has other dogs. I know he takes in board/train's too. 
He may be willing to take him on and work with him, but would that be fair to K?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I can't remember. So many people have contacted me but to be honest most only care what's in it for them (a cool sport dog, breeding prospect, something they can flip).... You know the dog, there's no WAY we could adopt him out as a sport or work prospect. I would not have done that even if he had gone directly from L to a good home. He's just not that kind of dog. And yeah, I think there are really only two options at this point and one would be finding a needle in a haystack. Other than L, nothing that has happened to this dog has been fair.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

That is where he was failed in the beginning, should have been made clear up front that he wasn't cut out for it. If you want John S's contact info, let me know, he's on fb.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> IMO, I feel bad for all involved, and don't have the answer because there is no helping this dog. I think your friend knew this as well, and she was his angel. Now that she is a real angel, I wonder if he wouldn't be better off with her once again.
> Sorry, but unless someone else will step up to help him, he's just going to get passed around again or live his life in a kennel. So not fair.


Sorry, I don't know the dog. Are we saying the dog is better off being PTS because the owner passed, the dog hasn't adapted well to the shelter, and has been repeatedly being passed around without success? Really... is this being said by anyone who has actually fostered or otherwise lived/worked with the dog? If not, I have a few more questions...

Has this dog received a proper evaluation? Has it had significant time in a foster home to recover from stress-based health/temperament issues? THESE ARE CRITICAL QUESTIONS. 

I find that it is a very small percentage of dogs that are just so temperamentally unsound that they are unrecoverable. So, when I see threads like this, I just wonder what really has been done to evaluate the dog when they are in a stable situation. And, how much effort has been given to understand the best home to place the dog in.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

From the posts it is clear that Liesje knew the dog before it was a rescue situation( sorry about your friend  )
I don't think an eval will help outless it's a completely outside source. Liesje is detached about the dog, I think she 'sees' him pretty clearly.

Its a sad situation, all around. I think the poor boy deserves his fun afternoon and BK. Show some compassion-he's killing himself already.


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

Poor dog - he would have been better off being PTS right at the start if the shelter was just going to mess around  
Now he's had a bad couple of months, he's stressed, unhealthy and will most likely end up dead anyway. The shelter putting him through all that was so unnecessary, it make me really angry! 

I think as horrible as it sounds he will be better off PTS  He's being shoved from pillar to post, how can a dog ever trust a home/person after he's had 10 of them already and lots of negative experiences in the recent past?? 

Personally I would rather my friends would put my dogs to sleep than have that happen to them.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't think he needs *another* temperament evaluation. The problem with an outside source is that they don't consider his history. The shelter apparently told the adopter he was just stressed from being in the kennel but those of us that knew the dog for years know better, he has issues that go even deeper than his owner passing and being dumped around for the past few months. Also I don't think anyone can get an accurate read on a dog that is terribly stressed and failing physically in a kennel situation. He hasn't been in a foster home because there isn't one available that can meet his needs. He deteriorates physically in a kennel/shelter but cannot be around other dogs, cats, or kids and there aren't foster homes like that around here or in my rescue or my friend's rescue. I understand the point about time and effort but it's just not there. There is no rescue that can take on a dog like this, at least not around here. He is not typical for the breed so even the breed rescue and people with GSD experience are reluctant to get involved. Just the fact that he's about to get dumped for the fourth time in as many months tells me that regardless of who evaluates him he is not cut out for being a normal pet. He needs someone who is committed to rehab, not looking for a nice pet or a sport dog or a companion for another dog but how long can you keep a stressed dog in a kennel waiting for that person to appear?


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I feel really bad for the poor dog . Honestly I hate saying it but it does sound like it would be more humane to have one last fun afternoon and be spoilt rotten then be put to rest.

You've already exhausted all your real options, the dog deserves peace now.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> the dog deserves peace now.


I believe that Linda would feel the same way, she would never want this life for him that he has had since she passed away.


> I just wonder what really has been done to evaluate the dog when they are in a stable situation. And, how much effort has been given to understand the best home to place the dog in.


 Lies answered it, and the dog has been failed, but there is just no one that is willing to take him(everyone that has experience has other dogs, he'd be relegated to a kennel life, taken out for short periods of time because of his reactivity) And you can't train that out of him, it is his genetics.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Sometimes doing the right thing involves exactly what Lies mentioned: a fun hour or two at the park, a BK Whopper and one last ride to the vet. Sometimes that is the most humane, loving thing to do.

It is a shame that the shelter didn't do right by the dog. But somebody needs to step up and do the right thing here. 
Sheilah


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LifeofRiley said:


> Sorry, I don't know the dog. Are we saying the dog is better off being PTS because the owner passed, the dog hasn't adapted well to the shelter, and has been repeatedly being passed around without success? Really...* is this being said by anyone who has actually fostered or otherwise lived/worked with the dog?* If not, I have a few more questions...


It's being said by two people that know this dog personally. Neither of whom would jump to the easy way out for an animal.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I've also got this dilemma where his owner's friends think he's an OK dog and is salvageable but those of us know have actually seen him in training and know the breed know that even with tons of work and rehab he's never going to be a very GSD-like GSD. He needs a pet home but is not a ready-to-wear pet, if that makes sense? People go to a shelter or rescue and are looking for a workable family pet, not a dog with genetic issues and loads of baggage. He's a working line dog but doesn't have the temperament or drive for sports or work. He needs some kind of dog whisperer with a nurturing complex but where the heck do you find someone like that, especially when my friend already has half a dozen dogs in her rescue that are healthy and have super temperaments? It's proving to be impossible to find a foster that is 1) willing to work with this and 2) has NO other dogs NO cats or other pets and NO kids. All of the fosters I know have their own dogs and most also have families.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Also it really eats at me because we know how much this dog meant to Linda, as obvious by how devoted she was to him and working with him despite his issues, but there was no backup plan.... please, people, make sure you have plans for your dogs if something happens to you. Do not assume your family cares about dogs or is in a place financially or physically to take on your dogs.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I guess I am confused -at first you said that you don't like the dog-then as this thread went on the dog is fear aggressive-it sounds like you have already made up your mind about the dog


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

No, I don't like him, but being involved in rescue it's not really up to me. What matters is what we can do for the dog and whether he's adoptable. I don't like most of the dogs I deal with in rescue because I am very picky but whether I like them or not doesn't matter.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I feel bad for the dog and for the deceased owner who would be heartbroken if she knew what was happening to one of her best friends...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I feel bad for the dog too....sounds like he was a problem from birth - issues that are genetic....and unfortunately, he has been let down by people and he is continuing on a downward spiral....

Sometimes, hard decisions have to be made....there are happy, good tempered GSDs being killed in shelters everyday....without the fun day in the park and a BKW! This dog's physical and mental condition is deteriorating and will continue to do so unless he is picked up by a very very specific type of person.....with medical conditions on top of temperament issues....I agree that the best thing for this dog is to be PTS kindly and compassionately...no - it is not the popular solution, but those who condemn it are not able to step up for the dog either. Even people who end up with dogs with severe issues like fear aggression and horribly weak nerves often do put them down.

Sorry for the poor guy....I imagine he is stressed beyond belief - and suffering just as surely as one with severe physical injuries.

Lee


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Or if anyone knows someone who can foster or adopt a dog like this please contact me. We have people willing to pay the fees and do the paperwork to pull him, transport, vet him, even PTS if that is the best thing but we do not have an appropriate foster home available and I will not keep shuffling him around.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I don't think this dog sounds that bad - except for my last question at the bottom. I guess I am used to non-demonstrative dogs, and am actually a bit thrown by dogs that are not that way.  Get off me, freak! Go pout and give me dirty looks from the corner.

Is there someone who can give him a REAL second chance? Not a 10th chance - when we start thinking like that, we lose hope and we lose focus on the dog in front of us. Their back stories are sad and awful, and we do disclose them to adopters so they know, but ask them to focus on the opportunity the dog has in front of them. Same with fosters, go with what you've got. 

IF there is a person who can do that - the dog needs to be neutered ASAP, first of all, to see if that helps - I know people say over and over it doesn't, yet I've seen over and over dogs get a second lease on life that way. Brain opens up, focus goes off of everything else, and overall health improves. Sorry! I know not popular - and the health improvement may be largely in part to the better food in a foster home - but the other stuff is across the board. Sweetie boys! 

Why this?


> but cannot be around other dogs, cats, or kids


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Can BDBH take him? Sounds like Lies has financial backing for him.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I don't know the answer to that - but would need to know the answer to that final question before I would even ask. That is the crux, I think the key to the whole thing. 

Also - BDBH typically commits to local dogs first (right now 8/3 local/out of state males 5/5 females - 3 are long term out of area girls, 2 of those soon to be adoption pending), then expands out if there are available foster homes, which is rare (21 total dogs in foster). Because hands-on evals are available for local dogs, they can be dogs that may need some work. For shelter dogs outside the area, we look for a good eval, and when we get dogs from out of the area, they are generally to help balance out the special needs cases, so are of better temperament, like the poor Southern dogs.

ETA - this is all very sad - I go by the "mistake" rule. Can I make a mistake with this dog? What happens if I do? Not necessarily the worst scenario but what is the typical reaction and can that be managed or controlled? Is it a dog that goes forward or behind? Back with another rescue group, my mom fostered a female because there were no other dogs - this dog could literally not be around a dog without wanting to kill them - we found out. We knew she was off, did not know how off until she tried to kill my Kramer when a mistake was made in getting her outside with him behind a baby gate when we visited. When she couldn't get through his big Chow neck, she went for the top of his head and eyes, and tried to gnaw on through - he was 13.5 yo I believe, and in no position to fight back as she outweighed him by 30# and was 3 yo. So this was her default behavior if a mistake was made, in her 3rd foster home. I felt terrible for her, but there is no home that could insure she would never encounter another dog. It is "easier" when it is that clear cut.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Lies, I sent John S. a pm on fb, so if he friend requests you, that's why. Maybe he can help?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I do not know why that is just what I was told by both the sister of the deceased and what the shelter had originally advertised. I believe he has some reactivity and fear issues. I know that he does not do well around male dogs or more dominant dogs (I knew this from the owner before she passed) so I think it's safer to just say NO dogs. Cats and kids, I've never observed him with either but am not surprised and would not trust him myself.

I don't know if he's neutered. I'd be surprised if he wasn't because normally shelters around here do NOT release dogs until they are neutered. If he's not he needs to be because I already have people asking about him because of his pedigree.

The other thing that pisses me off is I get calls and e-mails about this dog and now that I'm trying to help I can't get ahold of anyone so I really have no idea what the actual status is. The shelter would not respond to me and I work 9 hours a day doing customer service in a call center so I do not have time to be on my phone doing rescue stuff (I already sneak in enough time at work on the computer like I am right now). I will personally pick up this dog and bring him (or arrange transport) wherever he needs to go.



JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Is there someone who can give him a REAL second chance? Not a 10th chance - when we start thinking like that, we lose hope and we lose focus on the dog in front of us.


I guess this is my question too. How do we find such a person? I am not this person and neither are the rest of us trying to help but we all have our own dogs and fosters and rescue causes we are already involved in. The mutual friend I have been trying to sort this out with already has like eight dogs and she said she'd take him if she had to but that is not an ideal situation for her or for him. I don't want him taken in and kenneled/crated just as a last resort. The other fosters for the all-breed rescue I foster for have dogs and kids. There is another nice all-breed rescue in town with the folks that fostered Coke before we got him but they also have two kids and a toddler.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I see why Lies is in a conundrum. The dog might be able to find a home, but anyone that asks for references from the training club will get to hear the truth about the dog's temperament and behavior issues.

There are a lot of reservations about the "adoptability" of this dog. If I were you Lies, I wouldn't worry about it that much. Maybe if the shelter makes the call to PTS you could do what you kind of plan on, but before that I would give the dog as much time as possible to find that home. That is the biggest problem with adopters, rarely do you get that no kids, no pets, no plans for other pets, live out on the farm person to come around that actually wants to work a dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

It's hard not to worry when I've got a dozen people calling, e-mailing me and messaging me about him every day. I don't know what to tell people any more. I have my own opinions about the dog (that are really no different than the first few times I met him before all this happened) but that's not what people seem to want to hear. I don't think this is something that will be corrected by just putting him in a stable home for a few months. I think he will need a considerable amount of time and work just to get back to the point where he was before L passed away. Her friends that are constantly asking me about him are not GSD/breed people. They seem to think that because they know he is a "working line GSD" means he just "needs a job" and will snap out of his funk, but the reality is he is not good for any sports or work so no one who is seriously looking for a GSD will have any interest in him (or will take him because of his pedigree and then dump him again which has now happened THREE times since L passed). It may sound harsh but no one is looking for a Schutzhund dog that is terrible at SchH. People look for sport dogs with potential and use the sport/training as a way to develop stability and a bond with the dog. I really can't see that happening hear so I would be reluctant to advertise him with any sport/work potential despite his lines.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Too many cooks and not enough...what is that saying? Is that's what is happening? 

Anyway, can you pare down so that there is 1 person - rescue intake person perhaps - in charge of all of this? 

Could the person who is holding him now (I think there is someone) foster and have a good, positive based trainer take a look. There is a reason I always suggest positive based trainers (good ones!) because they can sometimes key in on assets of a dog and build on those. 

HOWEVER, if he's a no mistake dog...

Also (ducking and running) GOOD animal communicator....


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Liesje said:


> The other thing that pisses me off is I get calls and e-mails about this dog and now that I'm trying to help I can't get ahold of anyone so I really have no idea what the actual status is. The shelter would not respond to me and I work 9 hours a day doing customer service in a call center so I do not have time to be on my phone doing rescue stuff (I already sneak in enough time at work on the computer like I am right now). I will personally pick up this dog and bring him (or arrange transport) wherever he needs to go.


I usually find myself in this position to which is why I now refuse to get involved as a middle person... either I have the power to make an actual decision or I don't get involved because coordinating a bunch of people to hopefully get an outcome is a nightmare. 





Liesje said:


> How do we find such a person? I am not this person and neither are the rest of us trying to help but we all have our own dogs and fosters and rescue causes we are already involved in. The mutual friend I have been trying to sort this out with already has like eight dogs and she said she'd take him if she had to but that is not an ideal situation for her or for him. I don't want him taken in and kenneled/crated just as a last resort.


That kind of foster is out there but they a few and far between and usually have dogs already and a waiting list because they are not easy to place. I am one of those fosters. It's how I ended up with Holly (as much as I love her) but she had issues at 5 months old and as far as I've gotten her, adopters can't handle her. I've even had other trainers who can't handle her so she took up a permanent spot in my home and I raised my 3 dog limit to 4. And now I am at 5 with one waiting to get in and my property is not that big and fosters don't interact with my females so I'm always on a rotation schedule. Thankfully I have a very helpful husband who is as into as I am. I realize we are not the norm but there are people out there. 

But, as has been said, if people who really know the dog think it's kinder to let him go, then there is nothing wrong with that. Rescue is a tough business and as much as we want to safe them all, we sometimes have to think of the greater good.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Jean, too many cooks in the kitchen, lol YES!! OK tonight I will hopefully speak to my friend *in person* since we have flyball training (the main one who keeps asking me about this dog and who gets upset to tears over this) and just lay out what I can do and what I can't do and leave it at that. I think everyone is using me as a go-to person for the shelter, the rescue, etc. Well the shelter does not respond to me and the rescue is run by a good friend but *anyone* can contact her. I have the same number and same web page they do.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Yeah, that's it! I think that's a good plan! It is too hard to be in the middle - worse is when 2 middles get stuck trying to help!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Some dogs just bond differently. I rescued one that seemed detached for months and never showed much emotion, rarely a tail wag. That dog totally adored me though, refused to be more than 5 steps away from me. Very quiet boy, with strong deep feelings. I had to learn to read him. We developed a strong bond.

If he did not fall apart at the shelter after all this time - it speaks for him.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Well he HAS fallen apart. He's not responding to obedience, even basic obedience he knows, and he is a mess physically (underweight, hair falling out, infected anal glands). The rescue will not take him because he cannot *be* in a shelter.

I can't meet my friend tonight, we're under a blizzard so flyball is cancelled


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

What the heck are they feeding him? And who has him? Is this person experienced? I feel so bad, can't imagine what Linda would be feeling about all this.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

She said she put him on fish oil and a "non grain" product. He was on antibiotics and steroids for the infection and now being treated for mange. He's a "family pet" in a "country home". I'm not sure what happened because that was the last e-mail I got from the new owner and it sounded like she had a plan but then I got called yesterday saying she wants to give him up.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

OK we've got an e-mail thread going with myself, the shelter foster, my friend (good friend of the deceased), and the woman who currently has him. She is hinting that he is being aggressive so I've asked her to elaborate on everything he has done since she's had him.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Liesje said:


> OK we've got an e-mail thread going with myself, the shelter foster, my friend (good friend of the deceased), and the woman who currently has him. She is hinting that he is being aggressive so I've asked her to elaborate on everything he has done since she's had him.


This is good news. The more information you can get about the dog's behavior, the better you will be able to help the dog - even if that means making the very tough decision you mentioned earlier in the thread. 

As you already know, any rescue or adopter would want more details about the type of dog aggression the dog has displayed - is it circumstantial, only with a certain type of dog, etc. And, very important to get a better understanding about the "no kids" part as well. 

Based on what has been stated so far, I do think that dog can be placed. Since it sounds like the shelter has stepped aside, maybe it will be a lot easier for you to coordinate directly with an all-breed or breed rescue.

In any event, I think it is a great that you are sticking with trying to find the best outcome for your friend's dog. It does sound like quite a frustrating experience. 

Fingers crossed for a happy outcome for all involved.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Got more details on the dog. I don't think it's prudent to post everything here but the dog is showing aggression towards the owner/people in the household and other people. The shelter/foster person was included in the e-mail thread and she sounded very glum about his situation and chances at being adopted again.

Personally I think I could work with the dog (or someone like me) but I am not comfortable placing him based on the behavior the new owner is describing. Whether or not it can be rehabilitated is neither here nor there at this point. The shelter and rescue have their obligations and liability.

I have one person I believe should evaluate the dog but I have no idea if she would agree (she doesn't know me).


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I am not saying that the dog is ok, but dogs can be very different in different environments. I rescued one that was sheduled to be euthanized, nipped the delivery guy in the rear, not serious. Owners said he was very protective in the home and they could not handle him. The dog had a cd and did obedience with the owner.
He was a foster failure and a wonderful dog, reserved though. I had zero problems with him. Never was aggressive and traveled everywhere with me. Everybody loved him,people would stop their cars in the street to admire him and say hello to us. He did not like large male dogs, but was good with females and little ones. It took him a long time to bond with me. He was looking for his first owner for months.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Right, I'm not saying the dog is *not* OK, but the shelter does not have the resources to rehab a dog showing aggression (plus all the other stuff...that worries me more) and is not likely willing to re-adopt out a dog that is being aggressive towards it's owners and anyone that tries to come in. There were many other things going wrong as well (dog apparently has bad SA right now and cannot be crate because he destroys his way out, but is also showing the aggression when people try to enter the home...), but this is probably the one that puts the shelter in a tight spot since the adopter is obligated to return him there if she won't keep him and it's ultimately their decision.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Poor guy, he sounds terribly stressed out with no stability in his life. One way to deal with it is that the current owner places him into training into a different home with a training contract. That would not involve changing ownership. Most shelters would not insist on bringing the dog back if another home is found. 
It is not unusual for a dog to lose his obedience at the shelter. Some won't obey commands until they have bonded somewhat in the new home. If there are funds fir the dog, maybe an in-home trainer would take him. There areva few nationwide that do this. There was one that rehabbed Alex that injured his foster in baltimore.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Just got some VERY VERY disturbing news about this situation. I have no idea what to do for this dog. Might have to take this to PM if anyone else is interested....


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Feel free if you think I could help (or commiserate).


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

You can PM me too, not sure how much I can help, but maybe there is something.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Liesje, I do have rescue contacts and your location is not too far from Chicago. So, if you feel that it would be helpful, you can PM me too.

Sounds like a very stressful situation.... made harder because you and others are trying to honor the memory of your friend : (.


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