# Will this habit make my puppy faint?



## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

So I got a GSD puppy. I have had experience with GSD. This time, things went wrong due to a bad breeder from whom I rescued the puppy. Breeder didn't feed puppies very much and he was ~6 lbs at 10 weeks. Breeder never told me what he fed if anything. I tried to feed him some boiled chicken at first to get him to like the place. He appeared hungry and willing. I introduced some Orijen LBP, which I had left from my other wolf dog. He ate okay from hand for a while but didn't eat from the bowl even boiled chicken. Then he quit eating more than one bite for chicken. I took him to vet, and she told me that he needed Royal Canin or Hill's because Orijen is harmful and so is raw diet. Anyways, I got him de-wormed and vaccinated. I got some Royal Canin and still he refused to eat for 2 days. I tried to feed him some boiled chicken from hand, then he refused to eat boiled chicken too. After showing tough love and trying to switch him to dry dog food, now he eats but only few bites of dry dog food (I switched to Taste of Wild). He looks very weak and weighs only 21lbs at 13 weeks. He has energy and plays and I taught him some tricks. He eats his treats, but he won't eat from bowl. Will he eventually faint from playing but not eating much? Also, will it affect his development? His parents were average size and height. I gave him some yogurt thinking he might have some digestive issues? He asks for food, but eats few bites and runs away. I tried to feed him 3 times a day, but he'd eat only 2 times.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

21# at 13 weeks is not a bad weight.

No, he won't faint. If he has energy to play and train then he is not weak.

Stop feeding him treats and make his kibble his training food/treats. When you feed him, put him in his crate to eat.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Most dogs only eat 2 meals. If he is off food, it’s likely for a reason. I would take him back to the vet. I don’t know of any dog that can maintain energy levels while not getting the necessary nutrition. I doubt he will pass out from playing. 

Do you let him free range the food? Leave food accessible to him at all times? Or do you pull the bowl as soon as he walks away? I pull bowls. It prevents my 4 from being “snackers” where they will have a few bites here and there throughout the day. They also learned that meal time is meal time, and if they don’t eat it all, they aren’t going to get more until the next feeding time.

Does he take/eat treats while training? It’s possible he is filling up on treats if so. 

My girl was 23lbs at 13 weeks, and comes from a line of GSD’s that are at the smaller end of breed standard, but are still within standard.

I would take the pup and a fresh stool sample into the vet. Large worn loads can cause a loss of appetite. As can parvovirus and distemper, even with the first series of shot, they are not immune to these diseases.


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> 21# at 13 weeks is not a bad weight.
> 
> No, he won't faint. If he has energy to play and train then he is not weak.
> 
> Stop feeding him treats and make his kibble his training food/treats. When you feed him, put him in his crate to eat.


Thanks for suggestion. I will try to feed him in his crate. He spits them out if I use his kibble as training treats. I tried so many different brands to see if he likes anything. He doesn't like raw meat too. I tried giving him some liver just to check. I put some treats in the food bowl to get him to like his food bowl, and he didn't even eat his treats. I changed material of his food bowl too. Anyways, I am changing my vet today, and taking him to different one to see maybe he has some digestion issues or some other condition.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

did he eat the Orijen?


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Jchrest said:


> Most dogs only eat 2 meals. If he is off food, it’s likely for a reason. I would take him back to the vet. I don’t know of any dog that can maintain energy levels while not getting the necessary nutrition. I doubt he will pass out from playing.
> 
> Do you let him free range the food? Leave food accessible to him at all times? Or do you pull the bowl as soon as he walks away? I pull bowls. It prevents my 4 from being “snackers” where they will have a few bites here and there throughout the day. They also learned that meal time is meal time, and if they don’t eat it all, they aren’t going to get more until the next feeding time.
> 
> ...



I tried both. Leaving food just made the food go bad. I am now picking up the food after 30 minutes. I got him an appointment at a different vet.


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> did he eat the Orijen?


Yes only at first. A little bit of it.


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

I tried something new. I put a little amount about half tea spoon Tomlyn High Calorie Nutri Gel on top of his food. He ate 1 cup of Taste of Wild Puppy Pacific. He was hesitant on the last bite, but I called him and he finished it. Best feeling ever!! :grin2::grin2: 

What do you think if I continue this until he is actually eating?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think you just have a picky eater. Has he been dewormed? Are his stools normal?


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> I think you just have a picky eater. Has he been dewormed? Are his stools normal?


I think he's a picky eater. He finally ate with that gel. He had hook worms when I got him, and yes he was dewormed twice already. I will get him tested tomorrow. 

Do you think this paste/gel is safe if given in small dosage? I posted the photo in my last reply.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have no idea. You should check with your vet on that gel. How much are you feeding him? It is large breed puppy food, right? I find it weird that he wouldn't eat raw meat or liver.


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> I have no idea. You should check with your vet on that gel. How much are you feeding him? It is large breed puppy food, right? I find it weird that he wouldn't eat raw meat or liver.


I tried to feed him many times, but he ate only very few times. He ate twice a day when he was new, but now only once at night time. He would take few bites from her dry kibble and runs off to play. If I approach him with food, he'd run away. I never had this happen to me. Puppies love to eat, especially raw meat. He did eat some boiled chicken at first. I cut debonned chicken in small cubes and he ate tiny bit. 

I took him to one vet who gave me weird advice. First she said to never feed any grain free food. Second, she said dogs are omnivores so raw meat is bad for them too. Moreover, she gave me list of vendors to try and recommended Royal Canin GSD specific. She said he's not eating because of grain free. I don't believe it cause my other gsd was raised on balanced raw meat and lived ~14 years and had beautiful coat. I am going to a different vet now.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

:rofl: Oh dear. 

Go ahead and find a balanced, commercial, raw food for your puppy. Where do you live at?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

wolfmonte said:


> I tried something new. I put a little amount about half tea spoon Tomlyn High Calorie Nutri Gel on top of his food.



Probably liked it due to all the *"sugar" based items* in it!


*Tomlyn Nutri-Cal Puppy Dietary Supplement Ingredients:*
*Corn Syrup*, Soybean Oil, *Malt Syrup*, Cod Liver Oil, *Cane Molasses*, Methylcellulose, Water, Gelatin By-Products, Dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Sodium Benzoate (Preservative), Manganese Sulfate, Ferric Ammonium Citrate, Thiamine Hci, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate (Source Of Calcium And Pantothenic Acid), Magnesium Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hci, Riboflavin 5' Phosphate Sodium (Source Of Vitamin B2 And Phosphorus), Vitamin A Palmitate And D Supplement, Folic Acid And Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B12). 



You could try adding some warm water (brings out the aroma) to the kibble and mixing in some small amounts of Goat Milk, or Goat Yogurt (available at health food stores) or Homemade Bone Broth which is good for them. Let it absorb for about 15 minutes, then mix again, then feed.



See what your new vet says!


Good luck!
Moms


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Raw, done correctly, is the best food if your GSD can tolerate it.


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> :rofl: Oh dear.
> 
> Go ahead and find a balanced, commercial, raw food for your puppy. Where do you live at?


Commercial raw could work. North Carolina. He doesn't really like raw though. He wouldn't eat liver or raw beef.


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Probably liked it due to all the *"sugar" based items* in it!
> 
> 
> *Tomlyn Nutri-Cal Puppy Dietary Supplement Ingredients:*
> ...


I noticed, but just to get him to eat, I didn't think little sugar is too bad. I tried the water and bone broth. He actually didn't even take one bite. He seems to "prefer" dry food as he would take one bite. I would try some goat milk as he seems to like yogurt and cottage cheese.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

I tried raw with Lyka, and again with Crios, a variety of meats. They wouldn’t touch a bite. Cooked meat they go crazy over, but I am not cooking every meal for 4 dogs twice a day.

The reason your vet told you to steer clear of the grain free foods is because of the DM issues popping up. I would copy the link for you, but can’t on my phone. Maybe another member would be able to? 

My dogs go nuts when I add in things like a diced hard boiled egg, a tad of goats milk, whole fat unflavored yogurt and salmon oil. Not all at once! Just one add in a day. I mix it in thoroughly with the kibble so it coats the kibble. I’ll put meat drippings on top of their food at thanksgiving and Christmas as a treat. But it seems to give them one or two loose stools, so I’ll probably skip that this year. 

If you’re feeding just plain kibble, it’s not going to go to bad by the next meal. 

Take a stool sample into the vet. You can just drop it off, and they will call with the results, and give you the dewormer to administer at home. At least, this is something my vet offers, I’d call yours and check to see if they can do that as well. Deworming only kills adults, not their eggs, so he will need multiple 

I’d also stop with the treats altogether until he has a normal eating pattern in place.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

wolfmonte said:


> Commercial raw could work. North Carolina. He doesn't really like raw though. He wouldn't eat liver or raw beef.



How about something like canned sardines or mackerel or an egg as a topper? Something that adds nutritional value and is good for them? If you use the canned fish, drain it and rinse water thru it (I just run water into the can with the fish) to get rid of some of the salt. Or maybe try an oil like grape seed oil or olive oil.


Was the liver raw? My dogs won't eat raw liver unless it's frozen. They eat cooked and dehydrated all day long but not fresh raw.


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Jchrest said:


> I tried raw with Lyka, and again with Crios, a variety of meats. They wouldn’t touch a bite. Cooked meat they go crazy over, but I am not cooking every meal for 4 dogs twice a day.
> 
> The reason your vet told you to steer clear of the grain free foods is because of the DM issues popping up. I would copy the link for you, but can’t on my phone. Maybe another member would be able to?
> 
> ...


I read about the DM, it is really concerning since this "Grain free" stuff has recently become more popular. 

I tried hard boiled egg, goat milk, yogurt, bacon etc. He did eat half a cup of his kibble. But then he ran away. He eventually had one chicken wing raw and little bit of liver.


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> How about something like canned sardines or mackerel or an egg as a topper? Something that adds nutritional value and is good for them? If you use the canned fish, drain it and rinse water thru it (I just run water into the can with the fish) to get rid of some of the salt. Or maybe try an oil like grape seed oil or olive oil.
> 
> 
> Was the liver raw? My dogs won't eat raw liver unless it's frozen. They eat cooked and dehydrated all day long but not fresh raw.


He didn't eat cooked or bbq meat. I will try Sardines, but I am doubtful. He did have one raw wing that I cut in pieces. Vet said nothing wrong with him. He has sensitive stomach, but still.. :\


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Wolfmonte, before I used anything with corn syrup, I would try mixing in some canned dog food.


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## Custom Billet (Mar 10, 2018)

Mine loved commercial raw as a pup. We ended up on Ziwi Peak beef. 

I have never seen a dog turn away raw goat milk. It is about the best thing for them! If you buy goat milk from the regular store, it won't be raw, and it tastes nasty.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Unless there is a typo in the OP's original post I don't think the pup is lacking in consumption of food.

OP stated pup was ~6 lbs at 10 weeks and 21 lbs at 13 weeks. That's a 15 lb weight gain in 3 weeks which is substantial in my book. If the pup wasn't getting enough to eat it wouldn't have had substantial weight gain. 

My opinion is all the food switching and stressing over it is creating a very fussy eater. Might be getting too many training treats as well. 
Also, personal experience, my dog will not eat any food from a bowl. Don't know why but she won't. I purchased a cheap dollar store plate that has slightly sloped edges for her raw food. For kibble she eats that off a flat porcelain serving plate with a lipped edge. I know a few others on here have dogs that won't eat out of a bowl. Try a cookie sheet or a plate.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Custom Billet said:


> Mine loved commercial raw as a pup. We ended up on Ziwi Peak beef.
> 
> I have never seen a dog turn away raw goat milk. It is about the best thing for them! If you buy goat milk from the regular store, it won't be raw, and it tastes nasty.


Hahahahaha, I have to agree with you on this one. I grew up on goats milk because of lactose intolerance, and I had only ever had the grocery milk for about 25yrs. Never had a problem with the taste. Then I had some raw at a farmers market. I’ve never been able to go back to the store milk. I’m in an area where it’s pretty hard to get raw goats milk, but I joined a co-op and am able to get an intermittent jug every couple of months. I try to not chug the whole jug before I get home, but I’m not always successful ?


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## wolfmonte (Aug 28, 2019)

Springbrz said:


> Unless there is a typo in the OP's original post I don't think the pup is lacking in consumption of food.
> 
> OP stated pup was ~6 lbs at 10 weeks and 21 lbs at 13 weeks. That's a 15 lb weight gain in 3 weeks which is substantial in my book. If the pup wasn't getting enough to eat it wouldn't have had substantial weight gain.
> 
> ...


It was a typo. He was ~6lbs at 8 weeks and ~9lbs at 10weeks when I got him. Then at 12 weeks he was ~ 14lbs and at 13 weeks ~21lbs. But I had to really try hard to make him to eat a bit and probably all that hand feeding chicken and some treats made him gain some weight, but he just ate some raw meat. I guess I am fine feeding him raw but he doesn't eat it when I mix vegetables. I got Green cow tripe and feed him that too along with raw meat, bones and other parts (kidney, heart, liver ). I also add raw egg once a week. I guess he became a picky eater. Even with raw meat, I have to hand feed him. 

And you are right. I gave him some food in paper plate and he ate it so fast. I guess he has negative relation with his pot when I tried to feed him all that food that made his stomach upset. 

I uploaded his video when he was 12 weeks.


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## Custom Billet (Mar 10, 2018)

Jchrest said:


> Hahahahaha, I have to agree with you on this one. I grew up on goats milk because of lactose intolerance, and I had only ever had the grocery milk for about 25yrs. Never had a problem with the taste. Then I had some raw at a farmers market. I’ve never been able to go back to the store milk. I’m in an area where it’s pretty hard to get raw goats milk, but I joined a co-op and am able to get an intermittent jug every couple of months. I try to not chug the whole jug before I get home, but I’m not always successful ?


I don't think I am lactose intolerant, but as a baby, I could not drink cows milk. My parents couldn't afford to buy store bought goats milk, so, they bought a goat. It started with just one. By the time I moved out, we had about 50!

So I was telling my daughter how good it is, and how it is so much better for you than cows milk. I picked some up at the store so she could try it. She almost vomited! Then I tried it, and had the same results. I ended picking some raw up at the local hippy store. Now that is what I remember!


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