# Raw Dog Advice - Please...



## Ava (Mar 18, 2011)

Ava's turning her nose up at food AGAIN. What am I going to do with her??? Here's her story....

Breeder fed Orijen which I initially continued. She went through most of the big bag 30 or 40 lbs. She really had little interest in it and I had to add stuff. Typical loose poop issues. Next, big bag of Fromm, she like it at first and interest faded. Next big bag of TOTW, same results. Next, Kirkland. She liked this the best but I was still adding hot dogs, green tripe etc. She was doing okay until about half way through 1st heat, then no appetite and it did not recover. I added satin balls for a few days which helped for a few days. Then I moved her to 100% raw which was at the beginning of August. 

When I switched her over she was 22 1/2" tall and a skinny 50 lbs. She ate 100% of every meal minus one or two times until this week. I was out of town from Monday through last night. My wife said she did not eat twice - that's 2 out of 4 meals. She ate for me last night. This morning I gave her a pound of chicken back and she did not touch it. Tonight I fed her her normal meal and she only ate about a quarter of it - so, I added some salmon. She just picked at it a bit and left it.

When playing ball after work today I was able to see her ribs several times when the sun caught her right. I took her to Petsmart for a weight check - 53 lbs. Just 3 lbs in nearly two months. She's now 24" tall and 28 to 29" long which tells me she's got a little height to go and will end up with a larger frame that I expected.

Here's some pics from today. She doesn't look too thin to me, but she is a very lean (and solid) little thing. She's added more muscle than the 3 lbs would lead you to believe. The not eating thing is bothering me though, she has a very low food drive. Any suggestions to help get her to eat? 

BTW - My 16 wk old 18 lb Aussie ate her 8 oz of food this morning, then got to Ava's chicken backs and had another 12 oz or so. This pup is a friggin garbage disposal...


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## Ava (Mar 18, 2011)

Here's what I am feeding daily now:


10 oz RMB - Chicken Back or Rear Quarter
10 oz Blue Ridge Natural Mix - Beef, Heart, Tripe, Liver
9 oz Blue Ridge Ground (with bone) - Quail or Turkey or Venison
3 oz Blue Ridge Raw Tripe
3 oz Canned Alaskan Salmon or Mackerel
1.5 Scoops Nupro Gold
I break out the scale and make up a week or two of meals at a time, portion into clam shells and freeze. I try to maintain variety, she rarely eats the exact same thing back to back. But on the other hand the changes aren't extreme.



Here's a pic of my puppy pantry. I found the freezer on craigslist a couple weeks ago for just 50 bucks.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Personally I try to feed only about 2-3 different proteins a day and then a different two the next. I think it keeps them from losing interest in their food rather then the same ones everyday in a different order. She doesn't look too thin where I'd be concerned, but I like skinny dogs. I would just keep offering food at the normal times and she'll eat when she's hungry. A healthy dog will not starve herself. If you're concerned though maybe try a little grated cheese as a topping or lightly sear the meat to pique her interest.


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## Ava (Mar 18, 2011)

I know, I know. I am trying to keep it balanced while keeping it mixed up a bit. I went with just the chicken backs yesterday morning because she's loves ths bone in stuff. Really surprised she didn't touch it.

She turned her nose up this morning too. When she walks away, her food goes back in the fridge. I ask my wife to try again for lunch, no interest. Then she gave her three cups of the Pro Plan that came with the Aussie. She ate it...


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

She looks fine to me, 22.5in and 50lb sounds normal for that size. And with the added height, 3lb sounds normal too.

On the other hand, you do seem to be feeding a lot of lean meats. Does she have any allergies to beef? Blue Ridge carries some fatty ground beef. I bought it for Chance to keep weight on him and feed it to Eevee too. They have lean beef too, make sure you get the fatty stuff!

I agree with Chrissy, sounds like you're creating a bit of a picky eater. I'd put down what she gets and if she doesn't eat it within 15min, pick it up and put it in the fridge until the next meal. Don't give in and keep adding stuff.

Though if she's eating the Pro Plan...Maybe just feed her that instead of RAW? :/ But it's got to be the same deal, that is what she gets each day, if she doesn't eat it don't add extras or change it. You've got to stay consistent with whatever you do.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Her weight looks good to me - although it can be really hard to gauge from pictures. But I like to see ribs when the dog is panting, not just when the sun hits the dog the right way.

It may just be too much food for her...3 lbs/day may be too much. I would feed a bit less for a few days (maybe 1/2 lb less) and see if she will eat.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

did I not tell you that aussies where vacuum cleaners/garbage disposals LOL...

Ok so she scarfed down the puppies food? mmmmmm..interesting

Barring any health issue,,heres' a little story,,when I only had one gsd, he was the nit pickiest eater EVER, I got a puppy, fed them in the same vicinity obviously I had to monitor didn't want the 'hog' puppy to go for his food..Jakes appetite improved IMMENSELY, when he had this "hog" over to the side of him ...

Also, they would EACH try and get the 'other's' food,,,Jake wanted the puppies food, the puppie wanted Jakes food, funny they both were eating the same thing, ..

Hey if she's going for the PP, go for it..altho if she looses interest in food that fast, she may loose interest in that

I think she looks fine,,I don't want a "fat" gsd..but gotta tell ya the way those aussies eat, it's easy for them to put on weight fast


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## Basia (Oct 7, 2011)

Although her weight does look fine based on the pictures, I don't blame you for being concerned about her lack of appetite. Evolutionarily speaking, dogs are programmed to eat their meals very quickly. In my opinion, when a dog continually turns down food like that, there must be an underlying issue. Maybe in this case it just isn't very apparent. Perhaps the food doesn't make her feel well. Are her stools normal or loose? One thing to perhaps consider are adding probiotics and/or enzymes to her meals. Whether she's perfectly healthy or not, they would be of benefit not only to the GI but to the immune system as well. I have an EPI dog, and as a result, she could eat forever but still be losing weight... so I feel your pain. Also, I think RAW is healthier than kibble and I would try to continue with it.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

If she doesn't eat her food in the first 20 minutes, take it away. Do not feed her until the next day. This is what I had to do with Koda and I had to do this a few times before he finally got the idea. Now, he knows dinner time is the ONLY time he gets food, food drive is back- he will even belly dance for ya


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## Ava (Mar 18, 2011)

Thanks guys, she's doing fine. I was probably overly concerned with a picky, self regulating shepherd. I just love my dog...

Here's the update - http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/diet-nutrition/169152-over-3-000-calories-day.html


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

That is a lot of food for her weight. She doesn't look thin to me either. I also agree that you are creating a picky eater. Some dogs are just this way too and then we make it worse by babying them and trying to get them to eat. Put the food down. If she eats, she eats. Otherwise she goes hungry. No special treats to help her eat. 

If you are really worried about her you might have a vet check done just to make sure she is OK.


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

Ava said:


> Here's what I am feeding daily now:
> 
> 
> 10 oz RMB - Chicken Back or Rear Quarter
> ...


Don't feed into her acting like this. I have a dog like this. If they don't eat within 10 minutes take the food away. No special treatment or treats. 

looking at what you are feeding I am seeing a lack of a fat source. I would highly recommend including fat in her diet. It sounds odd because as humans hearing about eating fat =bad things. 

But for dogs, fat is actually a huge source of energy and fuel, and is a super important part of our dogs diets. When feeding meats that were cut for human consumption, they often lack fat. I would recommend considering adding some fat into her diet. This will also help your girl put on some weight. I get sawdust from my local butcher. Literally the dust from cutting the fat off of meat and bone dust etc. When my dogs are in the most active season of the year, and/or they are in winter and need to put weight on, I add sawdust from a butcher into their diet to help give them the energy to keep warm in the cold and have the energy to keep up with the high activity levels. 
With a dog that I am having trouble keeping weight on who has a more active metabolism I will also supplement them with the saw dust. Works like a charm. I also get big chunks of fat that the butcher would normally throw out. Then I will cut off pieces and add it into their daily meals. 

Keep in mind when replicating a natural diet of wolves like feeding raw, that the wolves eat the entire animal. The fur, most of the bones, the skin, the fat underneath the skin etc. The fat is just as important as the bones, organs and muscle. 

I always recommend reading this. Even though Orijen, a dog food kibble company wrote it. It is very informative about the dietary requirements of dogs. 
http://files.championpetfoods.com/ORIJEN_White_Paper.pdf



> dogs metabolize fat the
> way humans metabolize carbohydrates.
> Fat is their fuel – not carbohydrate, and
> fat, not carbohydrates, provides them
> ...


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

The pictures are a little hard to tell from, but either she has loose skin or she is a few lbs OVER weight...not much mind you (I am going by the picture of her sitting). But I agree with another poster, that I like to see a little rib when active, not just when the sun is at the right angle...

Also, you have to look at her calories IN vs calories OUT! If she is not running 2-3 hours a day, she is not going to eat as much as a dog that is. Her height to weight ratio sounds about right, so I would either cut back the portions and stay at twice a day, or cut back and go to once a day. But again, I am not sure about her energy levels.

My 65 lb Shepherd girl eats triple what my 75 lb male husky eats in a day - different energy levels and different metabolism rates.


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## Ava (Mar 18, 2011)

Lisa, Maris & N Smith - Thanks, but this is an older issue. A new member posted today on the older original thread. She's back on kibble and doing great. She getting 22 to 2300 calories a day. Yes that's high, but as a pet, her activity level is really on the extreme side. 

We got a 2nd pup back in September. Ava still gets all the exercise, walks, play, play dates etc. that she was getting before the new pup + unlimited chase / herding with a high drive Aussie. They're in and out of the dog door all day. I'd bet that she has 1 to 2 miles of sprints in before breakfast everyday. Plus her swimming has come on strong in the last couple months. We live on a small lake, lots of swimming after the ball.

Overweight? No. She's 23 1/2 maybe 24" at the withers and weighs 55 lbs now. Very solid. All I hear when I take her out is "she's so skinny".


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Ava said:


> Overweight? No. She's 23 1/2 maybe 24" at the withers and weighs 55 lbs now. Very solid. All I hear when I take her out is "she's so skinny".


The average person has NO idea what a fit dog looks like.

Most people are used to seeing overweight dogs and see anything that looks fit as being 'skinny'.


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