# Heel problem



## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

Recently I've really been working on an attentive heel with my pup (8 month old). He is doing really well with lots of eye contact and prancy front feet. However I feel like he tries to focus on me so hard that he begins to swing his back end out to the left. Once we stop he is never right at my side but either swung out and facing me or if he dint swing he does a rock sit as opposed to a tuck and ends up a half a step behind me. Ive been told to try using heeling sticks but he pays them no mind. i try tapping harder and harder and still nothing until he eventually turns and grabs one as if it was a tug toy. I dont want to hit him hard enough to feel like a correction because i dont want him to develop fear of a stick for bitework. 

Speaking of bite work he already had a solid bark and hold, but i dont think i should use that command for when he is on a leash to get him to bark? Should i just put him on a back tie at home untill he barks and teach him a new command that way?

Any help is appreciated!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think your issue is the eye contact. You want them to look at your shoulder area. When you teach them the eye contact, they curl around you to look at your face which throws off their position.

Try holding a toy in line with your shoulder but above his head and heel that way. And heel in front of a mirror so you know what he looks like. You can buy a $10 mirror at Walmart. Work on getting 3 steps right and then move on from there.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

Yeah that actually makes a lot of sense he was doing well when i was looking at him. But once I started to look forwards he started to swing out. I guess he has a mental image that he needs to see my face when heeling... i usually carry a toy in my left hand on the left side of his face. should just bring that hand up to my shoulder?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Yes, as Jax said. This common with many dogs who do eye-contact heeling. Good way to teach a nice attention heel, but many dogs do try too hard and end up swinging out their butt! 

You can get him to focus on a tug or ball held in your left hand, up by your shoulder, or by carrying the ball or tug under your armpit.

Also start doing a lot of heeling up close against a wall, or fence or other barrier that prevents him from swinging out his rear end. You want to build the muscle memory of what a proper position is.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

> Also start doing a lot of heeling up close against a wall, or fence or other barrier that prevents him from swinging out his rear end. You want to build the muscle memory of what a proper position is.


lol thats what i did originally to teach him to heel as a puppy. Now by trying to clean it up I've just messed up another part of it. I guess its back to the basics for us! :crazy:

Any advice for him scooting back on every stop?
I've heard a position board could help but am unsure on how to use one


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

As all the others said. It's caused by the eye contact. My eight year old is so bad, I just started telling people that she has crab in her pedigree third generation back on her moms side haha. We spent a lot of time trying to fix it. It got better but was never perfect. 

Our current dogs we still teach eye contact. I won't get into why I like it better. I do end up spending a lot of time on walls, fences and position boxes during the foundation stages. Every so often I have to go back to clean then up. I will also lure (like in puppy phases), but I lure making them turn their head out which brings their butt in. I do this when they are puppies and work the eye contact separate.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Oh yeah! The scooting back on the stops. Is he rocking back into his sit? If so you may want to teach him to tuck into his front legs, not rock back onto his rear. Position boxes help with this as well.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

I can make a position box but am not really sure how to start using one. any tips or links to good videos?


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

This link shows my box.http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/other-protection-sports/544962-remote-positions-2.html 

I know I have videos, but I can't seem to find them. 
Start off by just teaching your dog to get into the box. Make it fun! Start using a command so your dog starts to associate the word with the box. Again make it fun! If my box is out at all, my dogs jump in it. Once the dog understands the box, then you can start sitting, downing and standing the dog. Make sure the dog always keeps its feet up against the front. Then you can put yourself in the correct position and weather that's in front to help with a straight recall, in the heel position to build that muscle memory of being straight or completely away for remote position changes.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

girardid said:


> Yeah that actually makes a lot of sense he was doing well when i was looking at him. But once I started to look forwards he started to swing out. I guess he has a mental image that he needs to see my face when heeling... i usually carry a toy in my left hand on the left side of his face. should just bring that hand up to my shoulder?


I'd quit putting the toy to the outside of his head and take it out of your left hand. He's probably just rocking back to find his reward. I'd spend some time with no movement at all. Sit him, you move into correct position, then reward him on that straight line with your shoulder by either dropping it from your right hand held over your shoulder, or letting him come up and slightly forward to get it.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

Awesome!! I'm excite to make one and try it out. I'm sure he will love it. I was thinking like a little board or elevated platform but i can already see how useful those collapsible walls will be! Especially for his weird swinging out



mycobraracr said:


> . Make sure the dog always keeps its feet up against the front.


How can i get him to keep his feet up towards the front. I feel like as soon as i sit him he will just scoot back.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> He's probably just rocking back to find his reward.


He started the rock sit well before the toy thing. I only do the toy because i started using my left hand to reward him with food for looking up at me. Then once he figured out to look i had it on the other side of his head to get him to look at me and not the reward. Hes a pro at that now but i do agree i should move to a tug toy and hold it in my arm pit. 



> I'd spend some time with no movement at all. Sit him, you move into correct position, then reward him


Correct me if Im wrong but i thought you were never suppose to move yourself into position but have your dog move?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Later on, its on him to be correct, but in the beginning its easier when you show him what is correct without any confusion. You move him into an attentive sit so that he's straight, then you step into correct position and teach him to maintain that position and focus. Even if he was sitting kinda lazy, rocking back or shifting or whatever you had at first, when you brought the toy into it and started with it behind his head, you changed all that anyway because in some ways you made the toy a distraction before he was ready for it. Its not exactly the same as the food, most of the time they want the toy a lot more and that's when its easy to create problems if you didn't do some foundation stuff with the toy.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

Just to be clear he did not start swinging out when i brought the toy into it it happened as i tried to phase out looking down at him to looking straight forward. he would swing his but out and his head would be more in front of me to give me the same eye contact. 

I guess then its back to basics. Working walls and getting myself in position and rewarding that. Position box will hopefully be made this weekend!

Thanks Again all for all the info and help!!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I only mean the moving back in the sit when I'm talking about the tug behind his head. Not the crabbing for eye contact. They move to the reward and the more he wants it, the more he's going to cheat for it. Later on, maybe he won't, but that's later on.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

Oh gotcha but the the toy is up by his snout. And on stops when i want him to sit i bring it to his mouth and try to lure him forward but he either tries to gran it or rocks back into his sit and continues to scoot hoping il give it to him.


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