# Enough is enough



## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

I am sick of controlling my dog on a tight leash, when the owners of small yappy aggressive mutts let their dogs go wild with extensible leashes or no leash at all. How is it always the responsibility of the big dog owner and the big dog?

Your mutt comes barking aggressively at us, threatening to attack my 100 lb German Shepherd, I am no longer going to risk my own health and that of my dog to protect your mutt. My wife is pregnant, and I will not risk her health!

I will let my boy handle it with his 258lbs/in^2 bite force and razor sharp scissor bite with 1 inch canines.

Good luck. You will probably get your dog back tomorrow, when my dog takes a sh1t.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

eh .. okay ... I'm not sure who you're talking to .. (the universe?), but pseudo swearing is not allowed here.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

That whole thing was a little confusing..


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It's not the other dogs, it's the owners. Since you have the GSD there is a good chance that because you don't want to control your dog on a tight leash won't work in the court of law.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

258 pounds, uh huh.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Op has a point...

He is just venting.

I dont think he would let the little dogs to get eaten...
Yapping agressive off-leash dogs, big or small, are actually unacceptable...

His dog is on a tight leash... Their's aren't

and 258 pounds sounds +/- pretty spot on


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I have not had this happen yet. Trying to decide how to react when it does. I think Summer and I will just stop to the side and let them pass. I will maintain my leash length and let them know that Summer is not dog friendly. The rest is up to them.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Lykoz said:


> Op has a point...
> 
> He is just venting.
> 
> ...


what breed are we talking about?


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

huntergreen said:


> what breed are we talking about?


GSD... What is wrong with that number... Its a pretty subjective measurement anyway..
I think you misunderstood. Read the OPS post again.. It will make sense.


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## Augustine (Nov 22, 2014)

Kind of random, but yeah. This is exactly why I'm not very fond of smaller dogs. 9 times out of 10, all of the "vicious" dogs I meet are tiny yippy ones.

I'm lucky that Butters loves other dogs and has yet to pay any mind to the nasty little ones. It's the owners that ruin their dogs, but it still doesn't stop me from wanting to punt the little hellions every time I see one harassing someone.. >_>


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Another site says 240-800 psi. Probably more reasonable.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Awesome vent.....but I sense you are holding back.....tell us how you really feel....no sugarcoating....


SuperG


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Awesome vent.....but I sense you are holding back.....tell us how you really feel....no sugarcoating....
> 
> 
> SuperG


On a scale of 1 to 10, I'll give it a 7 for creativity (that last sentence is amazingly imaginative) It shows he thought the whole thing through to it's conclusion, doesn't it?:crazy:


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## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

Look, guys. Even if the OP's a bit over-the-top with is frustration most of us have felt the same way when a pipsqueak of a malcontent runt dog causes us to have the leash in ours for fear the brat is going to be eaten.

I especially dislike the look on my Zeus' face (who is not at all allowed to react without command) when the little dog chases him and I'm powerless to separate them just because I didn't give him the alert command to strike back.

So, I don't do that anymore. The moment I see an unleashed dog come our way we square up on the dog and give it a go to **** look. If that doesn't work as soon as the little dog gets within about 30 ft. if give Zeus our own almost silent alert and he stands and faces the dog if he's not already. At about 20 ft. we charge the little punk dog together with my hand-held air horn blaring.

So, far that's worked very well. The little rats don't expect a human and a big dog to charge them with a sound they've probably never heard.

Sometimes not. So, the sequence is 1) throw the airhorn at the dog, 2) retrieve the pepper spray #1 and spray the little dog, 3) throw the then empty pepper spray #1 and spray with pepper spray #2, 4) hit the dog with an extendable baton, 4) shoot the dog with a pistol (owner too if it comes to that), 5) call the Sheriff.

LongFisher


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Longfisher said:


> Look, guys. Even if the OP's a bit over-the-top with is frustration most of us have felt the same way when a* pipsqueak of a malcontent runt dog* causes us to have the leash in ours for fear the brat is going to be eaten.r


Loving the vocab here! lol. Longfisher I'm liking your posts the more and more of them I read.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> On a scale of 1 to 10, I'll give it a 7 for creativity (that last sentence is amazingly imaginative) It shows he thought the whole thing through to it's conclusion, doesn't it?:crazy:




SuperG


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

huntergreen said:


> 258 pounds, uh huh.


Think he's referring to "bite force"

It's fustrating having to deal with aggressive little dogs that are allowed to roam. I just do my best to keep in between them and my dog and lunge and kick when necessary. I had some 20lb thing and his smaller partner come at me last year, extremely persistent and aggressive, he wanted to bite me too. I never seriously connected, but I wanted to badly.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

I've mentioned this story before. I took my dogs to the dog park. A "lady" has 2 min-pins inside. I always take my dogs in one at a time on a leash and ask the owner if they are friendly. She goes," Yes, they like big dogs." In the mean time, one of her little "darlings" is doing growling lunges and Jasira, my female GSD, who is still on a leash and flinching every time she get lunged at. I said," I'm leaving." She goes," I'll leave. They usually like big dogs." Like it's MY dogs fault her little brats are acting the way they are. And if Jas defended herself? Oh, the big bad german shepherd hurt my babies! It's the owners fault, I know that but I'd like to shoot them all too. ( I never would but the thought crosses you mind.) I understand your frustration. YOU work your butt off to train your dog to behave and get these lazy owners who lets their little brats act the worst and I'm sure you'd get blamed if your dog reacted just to defend his/her self.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> I am sick of controlling my dog on a tight leash, when the owners of small yappy aggressive mutts let their dogs go wild with extensible leashes or no leash at all. How is it always the responsibility of the big dog owner and the big dog?
> 
> Your mutt comes barking aggressively at us, threatening to attack my 100 lb German Shepherd, I am no longer going to risk my own health and that of my dog to protect your mutt. My wife is pregnant, and I will not risk her health!
> 
> ...


sorry op, read this too quick and thought were referring to the weight of the dog.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Nikitta said:


> I've mentioned this story before. I took my dogs to the dog park. A "lady" has 2 min-pins inside. I always take my dogs in one at a time on a leash and ask the owner if they are friendly. She goes," Yes, they like big dogs." In the mean time, one of her little "darlings" is doing growling lunges and Jasira, my female GSD, who is still on a leash and flinching every time she get lunged at. I said," I'm leaving." She goes," I'll leave. They usually like big dogs." Like it's MY dogs fault her little brats are acting the way they are. And if Jas defended herself? Oh, the big bad german shepherd hurt my babies! It's the owners fault, I know that but I'd like to shoot them all too. ( I never would but the thought crosses you mind.) I understand your frustration. YOU work your butt off to train your dog to behave and get these lazy owners who lets their little brats act the worst and I'm sure you'd get blamed if your dog reacted just to defend his/her self.


The worst is their excuse...
Its a little dog... Don't worry it wont hurt your dog they say... Don't be such a baby they say... Relax, the little guy is not going to hurt you.. (all while laughing - at you - I might add.)

Like I don't know that... Its her little bundle of joy I am worried about, and the ramifications.. And possibly also creating a dog aggressive dog in my dog...

It is so ridiculous. Little dog's have bad reps and no discipline, not because they are little.. Its because their owners let them get away with everything and anything.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My favorite line

"He's NOT aggressive!!!" As the dog is running at his growling, snarling and frothing at the mouth.

Well that may be ma'am. But I AM!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You are fighting a losing battle if you want all the irresponsible pet owners to suddenly do the right thing. You cannot change everyone else's behavior. Actually, you can only change yours. 

First off, the tight lead -- this is the hardest for people with dogs that are borderline dog agressive, but if you tighten your lead you are transmitting to your dog your fear, while adding constraints to him, and he will be more likely to escalate and fight/bite. 

Secondly train your dog. What are you waiting for, your wife is pregnant. With a trained dog, you can say, LEAVE IT and HEEL, and your dog will ignore the blighter and come along with you. Been there, done that, all the way to my car with a small thing, barking and lunging and snapping at us the whole way. 

Please do not allow your dog to settle this sort of thing. You will not win.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

My dog...at times... tends to tighten the leash all on her own.......


SuperG


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

I can understand the frustration. But the absolute best thing we can do is make our dogs shining examples of obedience and point out their little gremlin's unacceptable behavior at every turn. I did this with mine at my last house. I liked walking my pup at the park a block away from the house, but this woman had two little schnauzers that would go ballistic at mine and slipped the leash more than once. I started out just avoiding her, but then she started making comments to me as we passed by that I should "keep a close eye on my dog" around her small dogs. I pleasantly told her that she could shove it and it wasn't my dog acting like a complete idiot at the end of the leash. And every time she tried to comment on my dog I always responded with things like "Look at the two little ill mannered dunces! I'm glad my dog will walk quietly by when other dogs are being monsters. Just goes to show what great behavior you get when you actually TRAIN your dog!" 

The couple of times her dogs slipped the leash, they got an airhorn to the face as well. No way I'm letting her "little angels" just run up snarling and foaming to my dog. She can either learn to control them or they're going to get an airhorn or worse every time they charge me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Lykoz said:


> The worst is their excuse...
> Its a little dog... Don't worry it wont hurt your dog they say... Don't be such a baby they say... Relax, the little guy is not going to hurt you.. (all while laughing - at you - I might add.)
> 
> Like I don't know that... Its her little bundle of joy I am worried about, and the ramifications.. And possibly also creating a dog aggressive dog in my dog...
> ...


Little dogs have bad reps for the same reason German Shepherds have bad reps: bad actions are remembered, embellished, and passed on and on and on until one does not need the experience themselves to believe it happened to them or a family member. And, because the actions of some irresponsible owners make it bad for everyone. 

There are LOTS of little dogs out there. Not everyone who owns one really should. We GSD owners tend to have no patience for them or their owners whatever they do. If they run up to everyone on a flexi-lead, people are being ignorant and rude. If they the owner picks their dog up when they see us, jeesh what a weenie! If they cross the road to get away from us, what idiots! 

And lastly, people who have dogs that are well socialized and not a problem just do not look at the entire canine world as though it is out there to eat their dog. Their dog isn't eating anyone else's dog and never has. So they do not automatically assume your dog is dog aggressive. They probably think that if you have a dog that is dog aggressive, you shouldn't bring it out into the public place without a muzzle. 

These people love their dogs. They are different from us, like another culture. What we see as normal, they think is strange. What their normal is is strange to us. But they are canines, and we should be able to come to respect them in that they love their dogs. Not all shep owners start out with dogs that will leave a little dog even if it is lunging and circling and snapping at them. Some of us have let our dogs run out and potty on their own, or visit the dog next door. Some of us have allowed our dogs to walk right up to other people with dogs and have had to learn that that isn't the proper way to do things. 

Irresponsible or ignorant owners come in all shapes, sizes, cultures and classes and they have dogs that are all shapes, breeds, and mutts. We need to find, each of us, a way to prevent an altercation before it happens, without bruising feelings, and without giving GSD owners a bad name. If you have dog that can manage a dog charging right up, then you have more time to deliver some kind education. If you have a dog that might not be ok with that, you will have to remain calm (for your dog) and alert so you can cut the other fellow off at the pass. Sometimes, Get Your Dog, works really well in a pinch.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

My shepherd prefers sauerkraut with her Schnauzer.


SuperG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ketchup with the pug.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

We were at the ortho's for a pulled groin muscle. I left the exam rooms and as we entered the waiting room, an off leash, obese, pug CHARGES Jax. Snarling, growling, bark off leash fat mass. I saw it coming so blocked Jax against the wall with a fast "Leave It!".

The woman gathers the dog, apologizing and telling me "he's not aggressive. he lives with other dogs" Meanwhile, people who were petting this pug are LAUGHING!

Yeah? Yours isn't? Well mine is. And I don't pay vet bills for your stupidity.

Her response to that? As my dog never made a peep. Never made an aggressive move. Her response to that was "Oh I can tell she is from where you are standing."

:rofl: Really? Because she's just sitting her quietly beside me because I've put the obedience on her. I'm over here because your awesome, non-aggressive, snarling mess is not under control. Not because mine isn't.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Jax...quit being proactive and common sensible....it's putting other humans over threshold...


SuperG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I know! I could just stay home Saturday mornings and watch cartoons!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Lykoz said:


> The worst is their excuse...
> Its a little dog... Don't worry it wont hurt your dog they say... Don't be such a baby they say... Relax, the little guy is not going to hurt you.. (all while laughing - at you - I might add.)
> 
> Like I don't know that... Its her little bundle of joy I am worried about, and the ramifications.. And possibly also creating a dog aggressive dog in my dog...
> ...


GSD's are pretty serious- no nonsense dogs as adults. Unless they are bonded when young, if you can't fight 'em and you can't f--- 'em , they see no use for other dogs. Why some people need to integrate them into communal dog park life is beyond me. I need to remind myself of that fact every time I walk my pup, she just does not want to associate with a yapper for several reasons. #1, they have nothing to offer her, law of the jungle.


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

Why do people need small dogs? If you want some thing small, get a cat.

I remember the time I was in a doggie play yard, a woman has 2 small yappy aggressive prince charles spaniel (what ever be the name), literally foaming at the mouth, barking their heads off, and she wants to enter the enclosed play yard with my boy off leash playing fetch. It is a private play yard only for residents, and this Mexican woman DID NOT belong in that neighborhood (later I found out she was actually the dog walker. )

I told her to wait a minute so I can leave, she enters... lets her mutts loose, they charge, I grab my dog, leash, we leave. But of course my dog had reared up in response. I did not see him bite the small mutt. The woman follows us, demanding "compensation". I walk fast, lose her.


A few days later, a different woman in a shiny red car pulls up, she is hysterical, yells and abuses me from the street. Wants me to pay $1600 for vet bills since.. and this is the best part ... her dog SPRAINED its ankle!!

Really?

Why is it that 100% of the times of this episodes with bad small dogs running wild are with women owners?

I am not a sexist... but from my experience it is almost always women. But there was only one time a gay guy turned aggressive on me when we were waiting at the vet. My dog hadn't done any thing, and his was going a bit nuts. He just turned at me with a flick of the head that would have made Sophia Loren jealous in her hay-day, and lisped off some stupid stuff about my dog being aggressive and he was afraid if he would kill his precious princess. 

You know I do not believe in weapons, but I see how a taser can be useful.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> Why do people need small dogs? If you want some thing small, get a cat.
> 
> I remember the time I was in a doggie play yard, a woman has 2 small yappy aggressive prince charles spaniel (what ever be the name), literally foaming at the mouth, barking their heads off, and she wants to enter the enclosed play yard with my boy off leash playing fetch. It is a private play yard only for residents, and this Mexican woman DID NOT belong in that neighborhood (later I found out she was actually the dog walker. )
> 
> ...


You are textbook Sexist...
That is the very definition of Sexism  

Just saying.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

selzer said:


> Little dogs have bad reps for the same reason German Shepherds have bad reps: bad actions are remembered, embellished, and passed on and on and on until one does not need the experience themselves to believe it happened to them or a family member. And, because the actions of some irresponsible owners make it bad for everyone.
> 
> There are LOTS of little dogs out there. Not everyone who owns one really should. We GSD owners tend to have no patience for them or their owners whatever they do. If they run up to everyone on a flexi-lead, people are being ignorant and rude. If they the owner picks their dog up when they see us, jeesh what a weenie! If they cross the road to get away from us, what idiots!
> 
> ...


My dogs are very tolerant of the little dogs...

But push anybody with enough negative experiences and that behaviour may change..

This is more a consideration in dog parks... Many good owners will avoid those situations altogether... But then it begs the question how do you know how tolerant your dog is to a nippy yappy little dog?

Here is why this is not a a culturally accepted problem but one of systemic cultural ignorance.

These are morals that are engrained in most forward thinking societies.
Basically I have a right in my personal capacity to not be bitten (or my dog) by somebody else's responsibility. If I am not negligent... And I abide by the laws... and my dog is restrained on a leash and I dont go into somebody else's personal space... Well then theoretically, me and my dog, have a right to defend ourselves. Now I am not saying I would smash up the dog or let my dog do it... But I sure have a point to complain about... People definately have the right to vent about it on a forum.. And I think they would be right in doing so..

I had a maltese poodle.. And it was always on a leash in public places..

We are talking basic dog etiquette. If you have experienced a cultural situation where this is ok... I would love to hear about it... Frankly for me... It was almost always ignorance...

To be honest I don't stress over it so much...

But it rubs me the wrong way when I brought a GSD to a dog park and people are bickering about how big dogs are dangerous and watching me like a hawk... Whilst their bundles of joy are going crazy... 

Im letting it out here a bit.. But In every one of the situations I didnt say and do much... They eventually turned from being scared of my dog to always complementing what a good boy he was... And how persistent and good natured he is... Yet if I came again... Same thing all over again... Complements about my good natured big dog (because they knew him now and because they were somehow excusing their tempremental little agressive dogs - Did not do anything about it.. Just laughed at a little dog trying to be the man.)... But I eventually went less and less.. because of people like that... The fact is if I condition my dog enough... And he eventually does get fed up... He may react... And that reaction can have serious implications for their dogs and for me and my dog.. (All the blame always comes to the powerful GSD that killed their little dog... None to the owners who let their dogs frustrate and aggitate it for months.) The sad thing is a dog which has many negative experiences learned from unruly dogs may actually divert its attention and aggression to a completely strange other dog... So it comes down to energy and each person showing responsibility of how their handling may effect somebody else.

The laws in most countries say a dog should be leashed... Now if you are going to walk without a leash in public areas... Fine... But then you need complete control of your dog.. (Dog parks go by slightly different rules - weather you agree or not is a different topic of debate).


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There is nothing wrong with little dogs. There is only something wrong with owners of little dogs who think pookie can behave like a beast. But then I've seen owners of large dogs who think their dog can behave like a beast.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> There is nothing wrong with little dogs. There is only something wrong with owners of little dogs who think pookie can behave like a beast. But then I've seen owners of large dogs who think their dog can behave like a beast.


Correct  But we are discussing little dogs here... And behaviours owners think is 'okay' for their dog, just because it is small.

Mismanagement of dogs is all around us. Big or small.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Funny, all of my experiences with idiot owners have involved men, including men owning little dogs. :shrug: Actually, my male neighbor and his GSD are currently the bane of my existence.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm well aware of what we are discussing. Thank You.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> I'm well aware of what we are discussing. Thank You.


Sorry if I sounded rude to you. Did not mean to be. Comment was not criticising your observation, just trying to keep things relevant.

Just thought this thread was too involved already on multiple aspects for anyone to discuss big dog, proper management. (not by you... maybe replies to your post.)

There was a cool thread before about a Rotweiller at a dog park critiquing the other side and their increased social responsibilities.

Just putting forward a message that little dog owners also have some shared social responsibilities


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

:spittingcoffee:




SuperG said:


> Jax...quit being proactive and common sensible....it's putting other humans over threshold...
> 
> 
> SuperG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I avoid anywhere there is a mass of pet people like the plague. Almost all of my incidents with small dogs have been in a vet office. Now I watch who is coming and going and go on the other side of the office when possible.

1. Bringing Jax into the vet for a recheck for her ACL. An off leash Westie charges us as we are coming thru the door. Jax is still in a sling for support. I have her blocked against the wall so she doesn't undo a $3500 surgery while someone gets that dog.
2. Sitting there for final recheck on ACL surgery. Dog on flexi charges her. At least she was healed that time.
3. Pug story above. She was there for a pulled groin muscle so potential for further injury again. 
4. Chaos is laying there with a broken leg. Some idiot comes in with a Chi. Puts the dog down and then smiles lovingly at it while it wanders over to be right in Chaos's face. I wasn't very nice when I said "GET your dog!"
5. Walk in the pet store from the back steps and this cattle dog charges over and gets right in Seger's face. I can't get away. Backwards and I fall down the stairs. The dog is blocking my way forward. The woman is baby talking this dog. "Oh you have to let them in before you say hi" Within mili seconds she has her hands wrapped around her dogs mouth. Seger looked like WTH? and then he let out a large growly bark that I've never heard before. Who gets blamed? Seger of course. Later I can hear her yelling to her dog "no no. that dog doesn't want to be friends with you"

True - all were women. 

We have large dogs that wander the neighborhood. Unfortunately, they all belong to my husband's family. Fortunately, they are starting to keep most of them at home. It might be because I chases one out of my yard and didn't know they were right across the property line tapping maple trees at the time. But the mastiff still drops by and leaves large presents for us.

The larger dogs seem to come with men. Smaller dogs with women. Idiots come in all sizes and sexes.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

LoveEcho said:


> Funny, all of my experiences with idiot owners have involved men, including men owning little dogs. :shrug: Actually, my male neighbor and his GSD are currently the bane of my existence.


Me too, the only *serious* issues I've ever had with little dogs involved a young MAN who allowed his little dog to run up behind us on a flexi and thankfully the dog chose to goose Jazzy not Delgado. Not to mention my lovely neighbours who are a young couple who allow their little dog to fence fight, the wife will come and at least try to correct it, the MAN allows it to continue and won't even step a toe outside of the door 

As the owner of a small dog, they both had the same rules and expectations. They've both got solid obedience on them which is maintained and both earn and lose priviledges based on their behaviour. 

I I like a dog because of who they are - not their breed, size, coat, or colour. If I find one where all the boxes are checked, that's a huge bonus


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## Ruby'sMom (May 25, 2014)

Lately I've experienced some of the same issues with little dogs/puppies. I'm working on getting CGC with Ruby and have sabotage our training with a few little dog/puppy surprises. My solution is a 'in training' vest. We have also had numerous people/children sneak in petting before talking to me. 

I also bumped up training. My class is through AKC, which is awesome for exposure to little dogs, but they allow non sequential shenanigans. So I meet with another trainer that doesn't. He also brings a little dog to training named 'bling bling'. It has really helped Ruby to stay calm and not react to little bouncy dogs that wear cute bells on their collar. I feel better equipped to handle the unexpected and non sequential shenanigans. 

Although it might not be fair that we (large dog owners) take extra time and money to train our dogs to ignore little dogs/puppies, we can take pride in ability to raise above it.... and maybe set an example. So proud of everyone on this forum. I really look forward to reading responses and getting insight to training.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> . Idiots come in all sizes and sexes.


True true....with just one exception.....young idiots still have a chance to outgrow their idiocy..


SuperG


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

according to most state law will my dog be guilty if a yorkie decide to come and nip my GSD and it end up very bad for the little guy ?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Ace GSD said:


> according to most state law will my dog be guilty if a yorkie decide to come and nip my GSD and it end up very bad for the little guy ?


Depends on which dog is under control/leashed/restrained etc.

If I'm walking my dog on leash and an unleashed dog provokes/bites my dog and my dog settles the confrontation in a flash.....I'm guessing the other dog's owner is on the hook for any and all consequences.

Both unleashed.....then I suppose it's a "he says/she says"....however, if all things were equal regarding lack of control by both handlers....the big dog will mostly be blamed if there are no unbiased witnesses of the event.

SuperG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SuperG said:


> True true....with just one exception.....young idiots still have a chance to outgrow their idiocy..
> 
> 
> SuperG


Only if caught young enough and with proper socialization and training. 75% genetic/25% environment. Studies done on it. Reference: Wile E.


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## Vadermomma (Jan 15, 2015)

I have a little dog he's a pomeranian. I did not do any kinda of research beforehand just thought he was cute. I ended up having to train MYSELF in order to deal with the monster I had cheated. It's was so easy to treat him as you would a baby. That's were alot of people make there mistake. But to make a long story short we integrated NILF into our daily routine and he's a joy to live with as is my gsd puppy lol they love each other. Some owners of small dogs really see nothing wrong with their pushy little dogs but I did with mine and did not want him to get hurt.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You Rock, Vadermomma. There are great owners out there. And super nice little dogs. Unfortunately, it's the other ones that are wandering around aimlessly in public.


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## Ruby'sMom (May 25, 2014)

Help me understand. A few of the posts sound like GSD owners might feel a little justified if their dog is provoked because another dog is not trained and comes after their dog. Why spend time training your dog if you don't proof it with high distractions? 

I've been on the other side of the fence, so to speak. My GS puppy was playing with another on leash and wiggled out of collar. I was at a GSD picnic with about 50 other GSds and handlers. I was so thankful all those dogs were not fazed by my spaz puppy. I walked away thinking .... I need to train train and train some more after I train, so that never happens again. But more importantly I need to proof my dog so the next idiot .... like me .... Is surrounded by trained .... proofed dog. 

I've learned from my mistakes. Give some idiots some credit to the ability to change.


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

I am pleased to see most people having similar experiences and levels of frustration as I do with small dogs. 

What many do not realize that GSDs are shepherds, or in other words "Protectors". Smaller dogs are mostly "terriers" or killers that finish off the wounded-hunted animal.

Terriers are, by definition and breeding, aggressive. Note Pit Bull "Terrier". Bull dogs were not aggressive enough ergo, terriers were bred in to them to make the best fighting dogs. 

A smaller dog needs to be trained more than a larger GSD, given its aggressive tendencies. 

But as some people posted here, owners of small dogs stand by and laugh and think its cute when their little mutts are "trying to be the man".

Listen up buddy, being bitten by a large GSD is the last thing you want. I don't want to have your dog killed, even though I hate it, as a policy I value life. I don't want to get hurt or fall in the way of on coming traffic because your dog started a confrontation and I am trying to get away.

** comment uncalled for. Please refrain from these types of comments in the future. ADMIN **


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ruby'sMom said:


> Help me understand. A few of the posts sound like GSD owners might feel a little justified if their dog is provoked because another dog is not trained and comes after their dog. Why spend time training your dog if you don't proof it with high distractions?
> 
> I've been on the other side of the fence, so to speak. My GS puppy was playing with another on leash and wiggled out of collar. I was at a GSD picnic with about 50 other GSds and handlers. I was so thankful all those dogs were not fazed by my spaz puppy. I walked away thinking .... I need to train train and train some more after I train, so that never happens again. But more importantly I need to proof my dog so the next idiot .... like me .... Is surrounded by trained .... proofed dog.
> 
> I've learned from my mistakes. Give some idiots some credit to the ability to change.


Why would you think any of these posts would relate to your experience with a puppy? That's a baby. Nobody expects a baby to be trained and proofed. They expect a baby to be a baby.

I, for one, would not feel "justified" if my dog were provoked. I fully expect my dog to "leave it" and move on with me. However, I am not the least bit amused with owners who think pookie charging my big dog aggressively is cute. Not after all the work I've put in to proof her and train her. I think there is no excuse for it. And I don't pay vet bills in situations like that. 

Dogs don't view other dogs as in 'oh that's a small dog so no worries'. They view an aggressive act as an aggressive act. So if a large dog reacts to a small one in that situation, it's nature. Plain and simple. It's our responsibility to deter any situations as best we can. I also think that dogs are losing their ability, by environment not genetics, of reading other dogs because they are not interacting with their own species.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Why would you think any of these posts would relate to your experience with a puppy? That's a baby. Nobody expects a baby to be trained and proofed. They expect a baby to be a baby.
> 
> I, for one, would not feel "justified" if my dog were provoked. I fully expect my dog to "leave it" and move on with me. However, I am not the least bit amused with owners who think pookie charging my big dog aggressively is cute. Not after all the work I've put in to proof her and train her. I think there is no excuse for it. And I don't pay vet bills in situations like that.
> 
> Dogs don't view other dogs as in 'oh that's a small dog so no worries'. They view an aggressive act as an aggressive act. So if a large dog reacts to a small one in that situation, it's nature. Plain and simple. It's our responsibility to deter any situations as best we can. I also think that dogs are losing their ability, by environment not genetics, of reading other dogs because they are not interacting with their own species.


interesting thought and observation.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Big Brown Eyes said:


> I am pleased to see most people having similar experiences and levels of frustration as I do with small dogs.
> 
> What many do not realize that GSDs are shepherds, or in other words "Protectors". Smaller dogs are mostly "terriers" or killers that finish off the wounded-hunted animal.
> 
> ...


i think your issue is more with the idiot owners than the dogs themselves. i would like to think if i had my jrt with me on a leash you would notice, not a flexi leash and not allowed to engage your dog. also not all terriers are small. my airedale for example.


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## Ruby'sMom (May 25, 2014)

Jax08 - I was just pointing out that sometimes an idiot does learn that there is a huge value in training. And sometimes things happen beyond an owners control, an unexpected event that could be tragic. That's all.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ah gotcha. I still dont' think in your example you could ever be considered an idiot.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Ruby'sMom said:


> I've learned from my mistakes. Give some idiots some credit to the ability to change.



I think you made a good distinction......you learned from your mistakes....my opinion would be an "idiot" does not learn from their mistakes.

I remember one of the best fortune cookies I ever opened....the message was..." A wise person learns from their own mistakes....a truly wise person learns from others mistakes".

Now, if I could just use all this wisdom and apply it....I'd be on top of my game. When it comes to dogs and training them...I wish I could go back and redo all the foolish things I have done.....some I suppose you can but other mistakes seem to last the lifetime of the dog.....and for those mistakes I do feel like an idiot...but I feel secure in saying, I'll never make those same mistakes twice.

SuperG


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## Ruby'sMom (May 25, 2014)

I do understand the point being made about small dogs being aggressive and the owners laughing and acting like an idiot. I've been on that end too. It's probably more common than not, but in the moment how is your dog going to distinguish a golden opportunity for the idiot to possibly learn from the mistake. Or what if the aggressive small dog is being handled by a 10 year old or a mentally challenged person? Maybe the owner is going through chemo and came outside to walk their small dog between treatments (dog could be acting out because handler is sick). Maybe the dog is ill and has never acted like that in the past, and the owner laughed because he/she was nervous. 

I dont want to make excuses for anyone that doesn't take the time to train their dog or is just acting like an idiot. I just feel that sometimes idiots can learn, and sometimes unexpected things happen. And I agree with you guys, just pointing out a few things. Well said Super G


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## Ruger Monster (Jan 29, 2015)

Augustine said:


> Kind of random, but yeah. This is exactly why I'm not very fond of smaller dogs. 9 times out of 10, all of the "vicious" dogs I meet are tiny yippy ones.


We took Ruger to SEWE this weekend, he met a ton of other dogs and people & did GREAT. We were watching the Dock Dogs exhibit, and this lady had 3 teacup chihuahuas standing behind us. Ruger was just sitting there at our feet, not even really paying attention to them. I heard one of them start to growl and had just enough time to pull Ruger a couple inches towards me as it jumped at him, mouth open. My BF picked Ruger up, the lady with the chihuahua was like "oh, he wouldn't REALLY bite him...he's all bark." 

I'm not taking my chances, thanks. I'd hate to have to punt your pooch.


Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of small dogs. My Boston Terrier is even on borderline small side for me. But I also know some well-behaved small dogs, as well as some that are horrible little ankle biters.


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## Lobo dog (Sep 19, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Awesome vent.....but I sense you are holding back.....tell us how you really feel....no sugarcoating....
> 
> 
> SuperG


HAHA  nice


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Ruby'sMom said:


> I do understand the point being made about small dogs being aggressive and the owners laughing and acting like an idiot. I've been on that end too. It's probably more common than not, but in the moment how is your dog going to distinguish a golden opportunity for the idiot to possibly learn from the mistake. Or what if the aggressive small dog is being handled by a 10 year old or a mentally challenged person? Maybe the owner is going through chemo and came outside to walk their small dog between treatments (dog could be acting out because handler is sick). Maybe the dog is ill and has never acted like that in the past, and the owner laughed because he/she was nervous.
> 
> I dont want to make excuses for anyone that doesn't take the time to train their dog or is just acting like an idiot. I just feel that sometimes idiots can learn, and sometimes unexpected things happen. And I agree with you guys, just pointing out a few things. Well said Super G


Im sure our humanity, could accommodate somebody that is mentally challenged... In fact law in most countries dictate that we consider their disability in how they are treated...

As for somebody who does not train their dogs... That is ok too... They can do as they like... As long as the dog is on a leash, and not infringing mine and other people's rights.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Actually all of the issues I've had with dogs have had MALE owners, the reason I stopped going to the dog park was because of a man and his little yappy terrier and no he was not gay since that seems to be important to you. The other was with an older man who's dog was on a flexi, this man thought our dogs needed to meet and let his dog run right up to my dog reactive boy. 

I also own two small dogs and I would never ever let them act that way or think it's funny. Small dogs are not the problem, irresponsible uneducated owners are.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Ya know....all this male bashing kind of hurts......

We are much more than pieces of meat...sometimes we just need to be held and have our feelings understood.

 SuperG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SuperG said:


> Ya know....all this male bashing kind of hurts......
> 
> We are much more than pieces of meat...sometimes we just need to be held and have our feelings understood.
> 
> SuperG


You just need to go to South Carolina where women are "a lesser cut of meat". It will make you feel better. You can be the steak to our stew meat.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

I think somebody needs to make a thread so we can get all our gender stereotypes, frustrations and sexism out 

No holds barred.. 

see if anything applies to us. Modify, and all be happy. .


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Ya know....all this male bashing kind of hurts......
> 
> We are much more than pieces of meat...sometimes we just need to be held and have our feelings understood.
> 
> SuperG


SuperG, I really enjoy your sense of humor!


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> You can be the steak to our stew meat.


And....to my good fortune...I am not a vegetarian....


SuperG


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SuperG said:


> And....to my good fortune...I am not a vegetarian....
> 
> 
> SuperG


yeah cuz I'd hate to be something like a kumquat or an ugli fruit.

Horned melon could be interesting


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I freely admit I like little dogs and their owners a lot less after owning a large breed dog. That doesn't mean that I hate or even dislike all of them, but I approach them with more caution. Suspicion, if you will.

My girl will heel pretty reliably when out running errands, so I use that to keep her close. I assume that no owner of any size dog necessarily wants her to approach their dog unless they say upfront, "S/he is friendly." If the dog is also displaying relaxed/friendly body language, I'll let them meet. My dog loves other dogs of all sizes and the reason I keep her close unless she's invited to meet is for the comfort of the other owner.

But in my experience, owners of little dogs seem to have this tendency to believe their dog is friendly when it in fact isn't. One example: I was at a pet store recently and this lady kept insisting her dog was dog-friendly. Okay so then why is it snarling and lunging to the end of its leash at my dog who is being kept several feet away in heel position? You keep using that word; I don't think it means what you think it means.


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