# What The Breeder Looks For.



## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

There have been many discussions on what to look for in a reputable breeder and such. But what do breeders look for in a possible customer? What turns a breeder off of a customer?


I did some searching before getting Cruz. All be it, I got him from a backyard breeder. But I did contact "reputable" breeders also. I was not really turned down by any but I was turned off by one. I WAS like probably most of the general public in wanting to pick my dog out and not have it picked for me. I have since learned things and my next one I would be more open to having a pup matched to me instead of the reverse. I've also learned differences in breeders like the one I got Cruz from and ones I've delt with in the past and some of the reputable breeders here and elsewhere. I've also applied for a rescue but never heard back from them. So I guess you could put that in the rejected category, but I'm not sure why they failed to contact me back, it may be something a innocent as being overlooked. I never pursued it, so it's water under the bridge for me and wouldn't hesitate to try a rescue again.

I'm not really looking for arguments just information to help myself understand a breeders perspective when dealing with potential buyers.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Good question. Not being a breeder I can't answer from that POV. 

I know with my recent purchase, I pretty much sent a full dog owner CV to the breeder I was interested in, including "references available" part. She called me within 6 hours and we talked for 2. 

I have never had a problem getting a dog from a breeding I wanted. But I have not bought a lot of dogs. In my search I found some hilariously long and detailed "applications" that needed to be completed before even talking to the breeder. I generally just bypassed those breeders. Not because I think I would be rejected, but because I knew I could find what I was looking for without the 10 page questionnaire. 

I talked to all my breeders extensively before purchasing. Actually talked. I assume they were gathering the information on me they needed and I them. 

I have always been honest about my expectations, lifestyle, and needs. I know what I want and what I can handle. 

But I am curious what breeders will say. 


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Good response. It brings one perspective to light. You mentioned filling out a questionnaire. That rescue I talked about took me around 40 minutes to fill their questionnaire out. I was that determined to rescue a GSD and then didn't hear anything back. Broke my heart. I've had 4 other GSD's prior and just didn't understand why I didn't even get a response from them. You would have thought they would want their GSD's to go somewhere where someone was familiar with the breed. 

I almost pulled the trigger on a breeder in the upper Michigan Peninsula before going to get Cruz. They pretty much had the GSD's I was looking for but time constraint was a factor. I just didn't want the added expense of shipping and the idea my dog was in someone else's hands played a big factor. By the time I get back into the market for another, time should not be a factor. An by cracky, this next time it'll be two dogs and not one. My wife talked me out of two the last two times we purchased. 


I hope some breeders can share or are willing to share.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I really am not all that willing to share this. I think people in general can read and research too much, and they find out what the breeder wants to hear and then they tell them what they heard they should tell them, and the wrong dog goes into the wrong hands. 

We talk a lot about red flags here. Well, I will tell you, that mostly I judge people and fix yellow flags to a lot of things I hear. Enough yellow flags, and I am not going to sell you a puppy. 

I don't have a set of questions, or application for people to fill out. I talk to people on the phone and if you give them enough rope, they will hang themselves. So I talk to them, and listen to them. 

There are some that come across like they have been reading the forums for two weeks straight, and those folks, I steer elsewhere. Sorry. They may make great homes. But I'm a little more down to earth, and I want to hear what people think and about their experiences, so I can get a feel for where the pup will be going.

I will ask some leading questions, if they do not bring some topics up, so I can make a decision on what emphasis they put on certain aspects of dog ownership. And then I have to decide whether or not to sell a pup to them. Breeders aren't perfect. We make mistakes too. I expect I have turned people down that didn't deserve it. And didn't turn down people I should have. Sometimes people can talk a good game. 

My advice to you, is to talk to breeders honestly, not by what you have read, and what people have told you. Honestly assess your situation, and what you want, and what you need, and what you expect. 

The forum probably can teach you how to acquire a particular type of dog from a breeder, but it might be the kind of dog that the forum members want and need, and not the kind of dog you want and can manage in your situation.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

selzer said:


> I really am not all that willing to share this. I think people in general can read and research too much, and they find out what the breeder wants to hear and then they tell them what they heard they should tell them, and the wrong dog goes into the wrong hands.
> 
> We talk a lot about red flags here. Well, I will tell you, that mostly I judge people and fix yellow flags to a lot of things I hear. Enough yellow flags, and I am not going to sell you a puppy.
> 
> ...


I want to be clear here. I formed this thread for general information. Not a blue print on what to say to a breeder to pass any formal interview to get a dog out of them. If they don't buy from a reputable breeder, you know where they go next...... a BYB, and thats what many preach against at length here.

I am not looking to buy right now. I am interested in what some of the biggest reasons are that breeders reject a buyer. What are breeders are looking for.

I understand your point for not being forthcoming about that info. But I'm beginning to understand where the "secrecy" aspect surrounding dog breeding is coming from. 

Thanks for your input.

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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I have had two pups returned to me as adult dogs. Both situations the dogs were not raised as they should have been. These are working line GSD's. Not to say other lines would be any different. Owners were instructed to get into training classes. They did not. Both came back at different ages. Supposedly out of control and untrainable. The first dog that came back was a male. Person that originally purchased the dog, no longer in the picture. The dog was living with the dad and stepmom. Stepmom did her best, but since she was not familiar with working line GSD's, she had no clue. She was not to blame, but tried. Claimed she could not train the dog and he had no food motivation. She raises puppies for guiding eyes. Labs are not GSD's. I had this dog trained to touch, with food reward, in about 15 mins. He is now a police K9. Other dog was taken to training classes after problems started to show up. They did not try their best to correct their mistakes. They have a tiny fluffy dog now. So now I have to screen people better. I must insist on training classes. I must insist on knowing your knowledge base. I must insist on knowing your home environment. (One of the dogs was allowed to roam where ever she wanted and got aggressive with the neighbors). Breeders learn from past experiences. Dont think they are trying to play God. They are trying to make the best decision's for their puppies as they can without living right next door to every puppy buyer. A breeder friend sold a puppy to someone who she shouldnt have. They buyer knew all the right answers. This GSD is now a puppy factory, and the breeder has to live with that. The pup was placed on AKC limited, but we all know that registry that will take anyone with money and people buy puppies without knowing it was made by people that didnt want to title and health check their puppies. And they make it sound legit (CKC) by using the same initials as another registry. Some one that posts on here and asks good questions would be fine with me. Some one that is willing to give references and wants to ask me lots of questions too. Maybe not so much the person that went to the first set of training classes with their pup (6 classes) and then stopped because they didnt think they needed to continue. I think going to classes for the first year you have the dog (pup) is minimum. By then you have several skills and will know how to work through problems that my arise (or at least have a resource to go to as well). That is a critical foundation for the rest of the dogs life. Should the need arise for me to take the dog back, for what ever reason, the dog will be better off having gone through additional training.


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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

dawnandjr said:


> I have had two pups returned to me as adult dogs. Both situations the dogs were not raised as they should have been. These are working line GSD's. Not to say other lines would be any different. Owners were instructed to get into training classes. They did not. Both came back at different ages. Supposedly out of control and untrainable. The first dog that came back was a male. Person that originally purchased the dog, no longer in the picture. The dog was living with the dad and stepmom. Stepmom did her best, but since she was not familiar with working line GSD's, she had no clue. She was not to blame, but tried. Claimed she could not train the dog and he had no food motivation. She raises puppies for guiding eyes. Labs are not GSD's. I had this dog trained to touch, with food reward, in about 15 mins. He is now a police K9. Other dog was taken to training classes after problems started to show up. They did not try their best to correct their mistakes. They have a tiny fluffy dog now. So now I have to screen people better. I must insist on training classes. I must insist on knowing your knowledge base. I must insist on knowing your home environment. (One of the dogs was allowed to roam where ever she wanted and got aggressive with the neighbors). Breeders learn from past experiences. Dont think they are trying to play God. They are trying to make the best decision's for their puppies as they can without living right next door to every puppy buyer. A breeder friend sold a puppy to someone who she shouldnt have. They buyer knew all the right answers. This GSD is now a puppy factory, and the breeder has to live with that. The pup was placed on AKC limited, but we all know that registry that will take anyone with money and people buy puppies without knowing it was made by people that didnt want to title and health check their puppies. And they make it sound legit (CKC) by using the same initials as another registry. Some one that posts on here and asks good questions would be fine with me. Some one that is willing to give references and wants to ask me lots of questions too. Maybe not so much the person that went to the first set of training classes with their pup (6 classes) and then stopped because they didnt think they needed to continue. I think going to classes for the first year you have the dog (pup) is minimum. By then you have several skills and will know how to work through problems that my arise (or at least have a resource to go to as well). That is a critical foundation for the rest of the dogs life. Should the need arise for me to take the dog back, for what ever reason, the dog will be better off having gone through additional training.


This is a very interesting topic. I didn't know that such people "who would tell the breeder everything they wanted to hear" were out there. Although I do remember when I contacted a breeder and I told them what I was looking for such as "easily trainable" that they told me "yes, our dogs are easily trainable but it also depends on the trainer because some people claim that they are world class trainers when they have never taught their dog to sit before"! It must be hard trying to pick good homes for the pups. But I would just like to add, that not everyone has to go to training classes to raise a well mannered dog. Some people may live too far away as well.


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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> Good question. Not being a breeder I can't answer from that POV.
> 
> I know with my recent purchase, I pretty much sent a full dog owner CV to the breeder I was interested in, including "references available" part. She called me within 6 hours and we talked for 2.
> 
> ...


Arhg, I really dislike those lengthy puppy application forms as well. Such questions; 

"_Do you have a fenced in yard?_" 

Well of course you would! Why would you get a dog if you didn't have a fenced in yard!

"_Do you rent and if so are you permitted to have pets?_" 

Why on earth would I get a dog if I rented and was not permitted to have pets?? 

"_Do you have cats/dogs/birds/whatever? How many? What breed? Genders?_"

I don't need an application form to tell the breeder that I have other animals. I would tell them anyway. 

"_How many dogs you had in the past five years?_"

"_Who do you work for?_"

That is just personal. 

"_Are you married? Do you have children?_" 

Also personal in the marriage section. 

"_How long you have lived at your current address?_" 

Not sure what this has to do with owning a dog? 

Most of these questions to me just seem to be questioning a puppy buyer's commonsense. I am sure that if we are going to pay $1500+ for a dog that we would have done our research, right? Perhaps I am being naive here? I am not knowledgeable of these bad puppy buyer stories.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I am one of those that has a rather long questionnaire. You make a few mistakes in placements over the years you start looking for more extensive ways to screen people. Some I do talk to on the phone first or I have had a few send me a pretty extensive first contact email so all I have to do is fill in some empty information. Buyers know how to lie, many embellish the facts a bit or have dreams of what they want without the experience. After one bad experience last year I was almost tempted to ask people to send me videos of how they trained their previous dogs.  People are very good at misrepresenting themselves. 

Breeders that breed infrequently, who give a darn about where their pups go, and who don't feel the need to sell pups ASAP tend to screen the most. 

One thing, if you actually want a breeder to respond to you, do not send an email stating, "how much are your Shepard puppies?" and don't ask questions when the answers are clearly on the breeder's website. Why would I want to take time to talk to someone who is too lazy to do a little research on their own? I also hate form letters.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Many questions on a questionnaire are there because at some point a breeder ran into a situation that warranted the question. No fenced yard and the puppy died. Husband thinks getting a puppy is a great idea for a gift and the wife is NOT happy so the pup is returned or becomes an outside dog on a chain. People rent, don't tell the landlord, the latter finds out and the pup has to be returned or a new home found (or worse, dumped at the shelter, and, yes, people dump expensive dogs too). There are a lot of examples.


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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

lhczth said:


> I am one of those that has a rather long questionnaire. You make a few mistakes in placements over the years you start looking for more extensive ways to screen people. Some I do talk to on the phone first or I have had a few send me a pretty extensive first contact email so all I have to do is fill in some empty information. Buyers know how to lie, many embellish the facts a bit or have dreams of what they want without the experience. After one bad experience last year I was almost tempted to ask people to send me videos of how they trained their previous dogs.  People are very good at misrepresenting themselves.
> 
> Breeders that breed infrequently, who give a darn about where their pups go, and who don't feel the need to sell pups ASAP tend to screen the most.
> 
> One thing, if you actually want a breeder to respond to you, do not send an email stating, "how much are your Shepard puppies?" and don't ask questions when the answers are clearly on the breeder's website. Why would I want to take time to talk to someone who is too lazy to do a little research on their own? I also hate form letters.


I don't think it is completely unreasonable to ask how much a pup costs, but it is kind of silly just asking "how much?" while not explaining what you're after, gender, colour, what health tests are conducted etc. 

Ack, and totally understand when people ask you the questions when they are already answered in the advertisement/website! I have dealt with too many people like that when selling poultry. :crazy: But I try to be patient. What I really dislike when selling poultry is when people email me and they are severely deficient in their literacy and provide me little to know information about themselves, such as just writing one sentence in an email; "ha much 4 2 gose" ~ erm, no name? What gender or age did you want?? 



lhczth said:


> Many questions on a questionnaire are there because at some point a breeder ran into a situation that warranted the question. No fenced yard and the puppy died. Husband thinks getting a puppy is a great idea for a gift and the wife is NOT happy so the pup is returned or becomes an outside dog on a chain. People rent, don't tell the landlord, the latter finds out and the pup has to be returned or a new home found (or worse, dumped at the shelter, and, yes, people dump expensive dogs too). There are a lot of examples.


Yeah, just shows that I am not familiar with these kinds of stories. It is very silly getting a dog that cannot be confined, especially when you are on a farm. The last thing you want to hear is that your dog has gone and slaughtered the neighbors' sheep. It would be bad in the city too, what with the traffic and questionable people who mistreat or kidnap animals.

Also, I thought that many reputable breeders often take the dog back if it can no longer be care for, so why dump in the bush or at a shelter?


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I just had a similar conversation with a friend not too long ago regarding a similiar topic. Some people are just dishonest, whether it's the potential owner or the breeder and the dogs end up paying the price.

I don't even know that many people but have enough stories over the years (most related to GSD's) that are very sad and didn't end well for some of the dogs


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I have limited experience, but I’m very close to a very good breeder. They are very successful, and of their 3 breeding dogs, all have an IPO3. So IMO, they breed some fairly serious dogs. Not that the dogs can’t function in a regular household, but they do take more work than your average lab or golden.

The majority of their dogs are sold to friends or acquaintances through training. People that work their dogs and have some level of dedication to dog sport. Some have gone to homes where people have been “interested” in Schutzhund, but ended up realizing the commitment was too much, but the dog is just fine in that type of home. The point is, they have an extended relationship with the people they sell their dogs to which is much more than just a phone call or a few emails prior to the sale. They have sold a few dogs to “strangers” but even those people have come to watch their dogs work and are the types of owners that are looking for a certain type of dog/line and they have it. I believe they’ve shipped 3 dogs over the last 2 years and all have gone to homes that are very involved in Schutzhund or even SAR.

Even me, who has really only been in dog sport for a few years, can easily tell when someone I’m talking to has gotten all their information from the internet. It gets really annoying, especially when they think what they read online, overshadows what has been seen in the real world. So I can understand why breeders get annoyed with certain buyers, especially those that love using buzz words. I mean…think of how often we see a post about “Is a DDR dog going to have too much drive to be a good family dog?”


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

dawnandjr said:


> I have had two pups returned to me as adult dogs. Both situations the dogs were not raised as they should have been. These are working line GSD's. Not to say other lines would be any different. Owners were instructed to get into training classes. They did not. Both came back at different ages. Supposedly out of control and untrainable. The first dog that came back was a male. Person that originally purchased the dog, no longer in the picture. The dog was living with the dad and stepmom. Stepmom did her best, but since she was not familiar with working line GSD's, she had no clue. She was not to blame, but tried. Claimed she could not train the dog and he had no food motivation. She raises puppies for guiding eyes. Labs are not GSD's. I had this dog trained to touch, with food reward, in about 15 mins. He is now a police K9. Other dog was taken to training classes after problems started to show up. They did not try their best to correct their mistakes. They have a tiny fluffy dog now. So now I have to screen people better. I must insist on training classes. I must insist on knowing your knowledge base. I must insist on knowing your home environment. (One of the dogs was allowed to roam where ever she wanted and got aggressive with the neighbors). Breeders learn from past experiences. Dont think they are trying to play God. They are trying to make the best decision's for their puppies as they can without living right next door to every puppy buyer. A breeder friend sold a puppy to someone who she shouldnt have. They buyer knew all the right answers. This GSD is now a puppy factory, and the breeder has to live with that. The pup was placed on AKC limited, but we all know that registry that will take anyone with money and people buy puppies without knowing it was made by people that didnt want to title and health check their puppies. And they make it sound legit (CKC) by using the same initials as another registry. Some one that posts on here and asks good questions would be fine with me. Some one that is willing to give references and wants to ask me lots of questions too. Maybe not so much the person that went to the first set of training classes with their pup (6 classes) and then stopped because they didnt think they needed to continue. I think going to classes for the first year you have the dog (pup) is minimum. By then you have several skills and will know how to work through problems that my arise (or at least have a resource to go to as well). That is a critical foundation for the rest of the dogs life. Should the need arise for me to take the dog back, for what ever reason, the dog will be better off having gone through additional training.


Great post and POV. Thanks for the input. 

As Selzer mentioned, you do the best you can placing your pups but unfortunately some slip through the cracks. It's a shame you couldn't sign a contract stating the pup will not be used for breeding unless agreed by the original breeder. One breeder I bought a GSD from made me sign an agreement that the pup would be fixed. Or I would be held liable to pay a higher price for the dog. I think it was more a deterrent than the breeder wanting more money. I had no problem signing as I'm not breeding dogs anyways and he would be fixed anyway as soon as possible. 

Great post though.

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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Yoshi said:


> Arhg, I really dislike those lengthy puppy application forms as well. Such questions;
> 
> "_Do you have a fenced in yard?_"
> 
> ...


I do not and never had a fenced in yard. Does this fact make me unsuitable to own a dog?


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

I don't think it's realistic to expect to have a universal list of "what is the perfect puppy buyer," but it would be nice to hear more from breeders about how potential buyers can be polite and respectful about learning more about them without being invasive. How often do we see the admonition to research different breeders to death? And yet it could be very off-putting to ask tons of questions, ask where the breeder's dogs will be competing next, ask to visit the kennel...Some people will find this downright nosy. So I guess I'm wondering what a good middle ground would be.

Is it actually helpful to send a "CV" of sorts? I always worry about overwhelming people with too much information.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

martemchik said:


> I have limited experience, but I’m very close to a very good breeder. They are very successful, and of their 3 breeding dogs, all have an IPO3. So IMO, they breed some fairly serious dogs. Not that the dogs can’t function in a regular household, but they do take more work than your average lab or golden.
> 
> The majority of their dogs are sold to friends or acquaintances through training. People that work their dogs and have some level of dedication to dog sport. Some have gone to homes where people have been “interested” in Schutzhund, but ended up realizing the commitment was too much, but the dog is just fine in that type of home. The point is, they have an extended relationship with the people they sell their dogs to which is much more than just a phone call or a few emails prior to the sale. They have sold a few dogs to “strangers” but even those people have come to watch their dogs work and are the types of owners that are looking for a certain type of dog/line and they have it. I believe they’ve shipped 3 dogs over the last 2 years and all have gone to homes that are very involved in Schutzhund or even SAR.
> 
> Even me, who has really only been in dog sport for a few years, can easily tell when someone I’m talking to has gotten all their information from the internet. It gets really annoying, especially when they think what they read online, overshadows what has been seen in the real world. So I can understand why breeders get annoyed with certain buyers, especially those that love using buzz words. I mean…think of how often we see a post about “Is a DDR dog going to have too much drive to be a good family dog?”


I think this is also a good post also. 

If you want a proven dog lineage from a particular breeder, you basically have to learn the ropes of proper training, not just understanding verbiage off the internet. What fits the requirement of the genetics of the dog. Going beyond basic obedience training depending on what the breeder feels is required. Basically, real world experiences over internet experience is what some breeders look for. It ties in with an ealier post about training is kind of a condition of sale. The breeder wants the dog to have a fare chance at succeeding. 

Is this a close assumption?

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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Heidigsd said:


> I just had a similar conversation with a friend not too long ago regarding a similiar topic. Some people are just dishonest, whether it's the potential owner or the breeder and the dogs end up paying the price.
> 
> I don't even know that many people but have enough stories over the years (most related to GSD's) that are very sad and didn't end well for some of the dogs


Depending on what type of breeder they turnout to be, I think it goes with the territory unless you totally lock into a certain buyer like what Martemchik wrote about. Only selling to known repeat customers and maybe a buyer who has had contact with a another known buyer basically being a middle man or vouching for someone as in referencing them to the breeder. 

Still, it is a process I have taken but only once. I got a dog from what most may call a backyard breeder but they were not a typical BYB either as they actually cared for their pups and urged buyers to stay in contact with them on their pups. They also were someone to fall back onto if you had trouble which in a way I did and they took care of me. They were great people. I have also bought a dog from a breeder and sent them updates and such with pics but they really give the impression they don't care too much. I'm glad I didn't have trouble They have dogs with good genetics but I don't know if I could buy another pup from them in the future. I may try a different route next time.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Yoshi said:


> Arhg, I really dislike those lengthy puppy application forms as well. Such questions;
> 
> "_Do you have a fenced in yard?_"
> 
> ...


Sadly, very naive. You would be amazed at the lack of research that most people do before they purchase a dog. They probably put more time into picking out a toaster than they will their new dog


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## njk (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm not a breeder but I had an interesting experience when getting my girl. I contacted all the reputable breeders in my state. One breeder was super informative, no questionnaire but she required a phone call, so we had a good chat. While we established early on that we wouldn't be getting a pup from her (she required home visits and face to face interview, and living in a rural mining town meant I'd be paying $1000+ to get her up here) she had a good chat to me about my expectations and knowledge on the breed. I really appreciated her help.

Three other breeders got back to me and all three said they had a pup for me - no questions asked. One said she had an 8 week old ready to send to me straight away, another had a 16 week old needing a home (he sent me a photo but a GSD experienced friend told me straight up that photo was of a much younger pup. So I asked him if it was an old photo and he said it was. I decided not to deal with him as I felt it was a tad dishonest). The third had a litter of 6 week old puppies, ready in a couple of weeks. We went with the third breeder, though she didn't have a phone number to be contacted on. We went with her as my fiancé's cousin had got her GSD from her and he was an amazing dog.


So it's interesting to me hearing about all these processes breeders go through, because in my experience 3 out of 4 breeders (all reputable) who got back to me couldn't wait to hand me a pup. I felt I had my pick of puppies instead of being chosen. I do have the most respect for the first breeder I spoke to though, who was happy to chat to me despite me not being a potential customer. She clearly cared a great deal (not saying the others didn't, but I guess the passion was evident there more).


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I like the really long questionnaires, it tells me that the breeder really cares about where those puppies go.

I bought my GSD from a byb so I will use my experience with buying a Dalmatian through a reputable breeder.

I filled out the puppy questionnaire and then I got a phone call from the breeder. Her husband told her "I think we have a great potential puppy buyer, I really like what she had to say on her questionnaire and I think you need to call her!" We talked on the phone for over an hour, we talked about nutrition, we talked about the Dalmatian breed, we talked about my GSD, we talked about socialization, training, how the puppy would be living in my house, how long will the puppy be alone every day, what would I like to do with the puppy. We talked about her dogs, her goals, etc.

After our conversation we decided that we would be a great match even if I didn't purchase a puppy from the litter she had on the ground. We agreed on everything we discussed and found that we had similar interests in other areas (Harry Potter ) as well. We both liked each other and that was that. I told her exactly what I was looking for and she told me she had puppies in her litter that would suit me, my heart just needed to decide if one of them was the one for me. She normally does not allow her puppies to go home on the 1st day the potential puppy buyer meets them. She knows how excited people get about bringing home a puppy and they may regret their decision later so she wants them to go home and think about it more. We both decided that I knew what I wanted and I wouldn't leave with a puppy that I didn't feel was The One. 

So I met the 4 puppies, spent time with all of them together, spent time with 2 of the males together and then spent one on one time with each male and I knew which one was meant to be mine. When she saw us interact, she knew it too. I put his collar on him and took him home. He'll be 1 years old at the end of the month and he could not be more perfect. He makes my heart melt, he and I are a great match and the breeder could not be more happy about her decision to allow me to have one of her puppies. We keep in contact and she loves all of the pictures I post on Facebook.

I think breeders want a puppy buyer that does their homework on the breed, they want someone who takes the time to talk to them, to ask questions, to learn more about the breed, to share about their personal lives so that they get an idea of how the puppy will be treated, how the puppy will live. I think they want someone that cares about having a relationship with the breeder and will come to them if they need help or need to rehome.


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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

Dainerra said:


> Sadly, very naive. You would be amazed at the lack of research that most people do before they purchase a dog. They probably put more time into picking out a toaster than they will their new dog


Thanks for clearing that up for me. I didn't realise that such things happened, especially when people pay top dollars for a pure breed dog.  



alexg said:


> I do not and never had a fenced in yard. Does this fact make me unsuitable to own a dog?


I have never said that. I am aware that some people live in apartments, but at least some sort of confinement such as staying in the house or in a kennel or run?  Free roaming without supervision can be a danger.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

jafo220 said:


> I want to be clear here. I formed this thread for general information. Not a blue print on what to say to a breeder to pass any formal interview to get a dog out of them. If they don't buy from a reputable breeder, you know where they go next...... a BYB, and thats what many preach against at length here.
> 
> I am not looking to buy right now. I am interested in what some of the biggest reasons are that breeders reject a buyer. What are breeders are looking for.
> 
> ...


Actually, my post was for breeders here and for people who might read through this post for the eternity that it will live on, as we do not delete threads. 

Uhm, yeah, well, we can't request a thread to be deleted but some do seem to disappear.

The thing is, it is not just the you, who are asking the question, but it is many people who might read a thread like this, and voila! they have all the information they need to convince someone to sell them a pup. 

People do know how to lie. And it is hard to not get jaded when it comes down to it. I have to listen to people to get an idea that they are who they appear to be. Of course we give out scenarios that show us in a better light, if possible. That is human nature. But we aren't selling motor bikes or coffee tables. We are selling little critters that we care about and have come to be attached to. We are invested in finding a home that doesn't talk a good game but lives it. And if we fail to do so, the consequences can be terrible for the dog. 

The thing about selling dogs on a limited registration, or with some sort of contract that requires them to alter, or not to breed, is something that sounds good, but for the most part is unenforceable by most breeders. They will just not register or go with a junk registry. If people want to breed their dog, they will. Which means, I have to trust someone to make good decisions for the dog, or not sell the dog to them. Insisting on contracts that they feed the dog X, they train the dog up to Y-level, and they alter the dog by Z number of months old, is a waste of paper. 

You sold the dog, it is no longer yours. If you are unwilling to speuter puppies, and you cannot handle this, then maybe breeding isn't the job for you. The only people that will follow your contract, are the ones that you really didn't need to worry about. So it doesn't matter really. It means, you have to judge people, not only whether or not they can raise a puppy, but whether or not they will be able to make a good choice about breeding or not breeding and whether or not they can handle that.

So there ya go, if I do not trust you, to raise a puppy in all that that entails and to keep an intact dog or bitch, then I am not going to sell you a puppy. I do not require people to keep their animal intact, but I cannot judge people on a different premise if they say their intention is to have the animal fixed.

I have no problem with people asking how much the puppy is. That says they are serious and want to buy, and it makes no sense for either of us to waste any more time if we are totally out of eachother's ball park.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Yoshi said:


> ...
> Why would you get a dog if you didn't have a fenced in yard!
> ...





Yoshi said:


> I have never said that.


See above.



Yoshi said:


> Free roaming without supervision can be a danger.


Really?! What an eye opener.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Geez alex, let it be! If it makes you feel any better, I don't have a fenced yard either and I don't feel personally judged or attacked at all. If you are comfortable and self-assured that you can keep your dog safe without a fenced yard, not sure why you would feel targeted by a general comment.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

not targeted, just annoyed by ignorant statements.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Ok, we're straying off topic here. I'm more interested in what breeders are saying. If you don't like a comment, it's ok to disagree, but lets not turn this into a slugfest of wills. I would like to keep this thread on a peaceful level of discussion.

Thanks.

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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

alexg said:


> Really?! What an eye opener.


Too right, it is indeed an eye opener but some people do not see it that way at all.  

Alexg, I never said that you were incapable of owning a dog because you do not have a backyard. I do not know you or your situation so I cannot possibly judge. I was actually referring to myself because in my short life we have always had a backyard as I live on a farm, so we really have a huge backyard. I thought it would be important as in many of these puppy questionnaires they ask if you have a backyard, and also ask to see photos of it and wish to know the official layout.

I am sorry if I did offend you and others who do not have backyards, as that was never my intention. I am sorry that you read it that way and I will try and pick my words more carefully next time.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm a foster, not a breeder, but I would venture to guess that what I look for in a home is not dissimilar.

Ultimately everything just comes down to the question of "is this person likely to make the dog happy, and is this dog likely to make the person happy?"

I'll use my current foster dog, Queenie, as an example. She's a very smart dog, medium-high energy, likes to work, super fun and easy to train. She'd make a great little sport dog for a novice or casual competitor in agility, Rally, flyball, or any number of similar sports. (For all I know, she might be great in the hands of a more experienced/serious competitor, too, but once you start getting to the Seriously Serious homes, I am a _lot_ more cautious about making promises, because I don't want to be blamed if somebody is unable to achieve high-level goals with one of my dogs. I'll be honest about whatever potential I do or don't see in a foster, but I won't promise anything.)

Queenie would also be a good match for an active pet home, as she does not have any serious behavioral issues, she's very sociable and affiliative, she has no problem co-existing with other dogs, small pets, kids, etc., and she is both playful and cuddly.

_But_ she can be mouthy, especially when she's frustrated (I've reduced this to almost nothing, but bad habits have a way of popping back up with an owner who doesn't know how to prevent or fix them), she's high-energy enough that she would not be appropriate for a completely sedentary owner, and I don't want to see her get bored or squandered in a home that won't engage her brain. She needs someone who will encourage her good traits and keep her not-so-hot ones from running wild.

So once we get past the basic threshold of "I can trust this person not to actually abuse, neglect, or dump my dog," I'm looking for somebody who fits the best possible profile for Queenie.

Demonstrated experience and success in some form of advanced training is always a huge plus with me, but the truth is, there are not that many good performance homes out there (or work homes, probably, but I'm not placing foster dogs in working roles so I don't really know anything about that), and those people are _constantly_ having dogs thrown at them, so the stars really have to align for one of my guys to have a shot at a home like that.

I will also look for active pet homes where the owners are _interested_ in doing some type of advanced training (and I count anything! Doesn't have to be a formal sport! Might just be the "fetch me a beer" trick!) but haven't actually tried it yet, and/or have dabbled in some kind of sport but aren't very serious, and/or will give the dog lots of mental and physical exercise in some alternative way, such as lots of outdoor hiking in varied terrain. Most of my foster dogs end up in these homes.

Homes I avoid are ones where the people have wacky and strongly held ideas about how to train or care for their dogs, where their expectations are completely unrealistic (particularly with respect to Queenie, since a fair number of people seem to harbor the delusion that a dog with a novice trick title will be a perfect push-button robot for them in every and any environment), or where I have doubts about the quality of care and interaction that my dog would get in that home. I'm not going to place a dog in a home that just wants some furry furniture to lie around the floor in front of the TV.

In short, what I'm trying to figure out is which home will provide the maximum value of Love + Knowledge + Commitment.

Any home that scores low on one or more of those three things, _and_ where the owner has no interest in changing it (which is to say: I don't expect first-time owners to know everything; I _do_ expect them to make an effort to learn as much as possible), is not getting one of my dogs.

Any home that scores high on all three, well, I will do a secret little dance of joy and then I will throw my dog at them as hard as I can.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yoshi said:


> Too right, it is indeed an eye opener but some people do not see it that way at all.
> 
> Alexg, I never said that you were incapable of owning a dog because you do not have a backyard. I do not know you or your situation so I cannot possibly judge. I was actually referring to myself because in my short life we have always had a backyard as I live on a farm, so we really have a huge backyard. I thought it would be important as in many of these puppy questionnaires they ask if you have a backyard, and also ask to see photos of it and wish to know the official layout.
> 
> I am sorry if I did offend you and others who do not have backyards, as that was never my intention. I am sorry that you read it that way and I will try and pick my words more carefully next time.


Frankly, if I had a nickel for every time people said they live on x-number of acres... It really isn't anything I want to hear. Out here, people feel that since they have a number of acres, they can just leave the dog outside, and it will be fine. The dog generally will get hit in the road. 

A fenced yard is similar. There are not a lot of fenced yards I would trust a dog to be left in while the owner goes about his business in the house or out of it. Dogs dig under, and climb over fences. People need to go out with the dog, unless they truly have a fence that is sufficient. 

People seem to think that if you put a dog in a back yard by itself, it will not get into trouble and it will exercise itself. What often happens is the dog gets teased through the fence, fence fights with the neighbors dog, gets out of it and gets smooshed in the road. Or worse. 

But I listen to this, and I ask a question or two. It is usually followed by, "oh yeah, well we have an e-collar and we'll train the dog to stay on the property. 

No doubt some people can, but as a breeder you have to decide if the 12 pound fur ball that you were hugging this morning, should go to someone that might put an e-collar on it to train it to stay on the property?


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

An interesting thing brought up here is the health care question. How can a breeder be confident that a buyer will provide the best care for the dog? It seems like a huge trust thing. It fits in with other aspects or types of care. Would it be beneficial to provide a veterinarian reference to the breeder for a contact? Or since the breeder may be in another state and doesn't know the veterinarian, this wouldn't make any difference?

Training aspect also. Would providing a trainers contact reference be worth the time? Would it cover doubts or concerns along the lines of training? Selzer also mentioned e-collars. I have never ued an e-collar on a dog until recently. Being this is a method of training, would there be sufficient reasoning for the buyer to have used an e-collar previously? How would a breeder sort this out or would it be an automatic red flag? Again, would referring a trainer be useful for the breeder, or again, still a red flag?

Ok, along the fence no fence discussion, let me state this. I used to be an owner that left my dog outside. Growing up, it was just that way. Animals belong outside. I have since learned with these dogs, it's far better to have them with you than not. Let me add that now we always have our pets inside. We couldn't imagine leaving them outdoors anymore. We have done this for the last 15 yrs of being a GSD owner. Would this statement be alarming to a breeder because of the prior frame of mind? Or / and open the door to follow up questions?



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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

jafo220 said:


> An interesting thing brought up here is the health care question. How can a breeder be confident that a buyer will provide the best care for the dog? It seems like a huge trust thing. It fits in with other aspects or types of care. Would it be beneficial to provide a veterinarian reference to the breeder for a contact? Or since the breeder may be in another state and doesn't know the veterinarian, this wouldn't make any difference?
> 
> Training aspect also. Would providing a trainers contact reference be worth the time? Would it cover doubts or concerns along the lines of training? Selzer also mentioned e-collars. I have never ued an e-collar on a dog until recently. Being this is a method of training, would there be sufficient reasoning for the buyer to have used an e-collar previously? How would a breeder sort this out or would it be an automatic red flag? Again, would referring a trainer be useful for the breeder, or again, still a red flag?
> 
> ...


A good breeder will talk to you and size you up. They get a feel for your knowledge and experience. I hope that I can spot the people that are just parroting stuff they have read on the internet. I think I am pretty good at it. 

Sure I want people to have a solid fence. I hope they are not going to just position the dog in the back yard and leave it there. But taking the dog out in the morning to potty without a lead, the dog is definitely safer if there are fencing around. And yet a conscientious owner with some experience can be trusted to train and bond with the dog before allowing any time off lead if he has no fence. But you can only get a feel for that if you talk to the people.

You have to judge people. There is no way around that. If you judge wrong, a pup gets run over by a school bus, or poisoned in the woods. A couple of these horror stories, and you get to the point where you don't want to give a puppy to anyone.

When people are stroking the little eight week old puppy and are asking you when they can put a prong collar or e-collar on it, you have to check your emotional response and answer the question -- at least they are asking. And they are legitimate methods of training, even if I do not like them.

The same with raw feeding. I might not feed raw because I do not feel that I researched it enough to properly feed raw. I can skip a meal a few times a week and hand out chicken hindquarters. But others may indicate that they are going to feed raw. I have to decide whether those people have done their research on it, and know the MM OM ratios etc., or are they just going to throw some chicken at the dog each day. 

I listen a LOT. People like to talk, and they tell you all kinds of stuff. 

If a breeder asks for your veterinarian's name, they may just be looking for hesitation. If you are unconcerned about giving it, they may not even check. I really don't know if veterinarians will give reference checks. They may recommend breeders to people -- they have asked me if I mind. But, I think what the breeders are doing for the most part is getting a feel for your level or consideration when it comes to your pup's health maintenance. Do you have a veterinarian? People talk about their experiences. And you can get a feel for whether or not they are going to be responsible with the puppy. Some people want to vaccinate and vet less, and for some things less is more. At the same time, people need to be willing to accept that veterinary care and expense is part of the responsibility of owning a critter. 

Some people are getting their first critter. And, no, they will not have a trainer or a vet history. It is not a red flag, but it is a yellow flag, and it means talking to these people a little more extensively and impressing upon them that they can call you if they have a problem, etc. Breeders have to sell to first time buyers, because these people are going to get a dog from somewhere. We may have to do some education. And at the end of the day, people will probably do what their family did or what their vet says. So talking about family pets, etc, is worthwhile. Very few people have no experience at all.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

selzer said:


> A good breeder will talk to you and size you up. They get a feel for your knowledge and experience. I hope that I can spot the people that are just parroting stuff they have read on the internet. I think I am pretty good at it.
> 
> Sure I want people to have a solid fence. I hope they are not going to just position the dog in the back yard and leave it there. But taking the dog out in the morning to potty without a lead, the dog is definitely safer if there are fencing around. And yet a conscientious owner with some experience can be trusted to train and bond with the dog before allowing any time off lead if he has no fence. But you can only get a feel for that if you talk to the people.
> 
> ...


Selzer, that is a great answer. Very informative without showing your hand. This is what I was kind of looking for in this thread. Not so much what you as a breeder want to hear or blue printing a conversation, but to get a feel of the breeders mindset talking to a buyer and what may turn a breeder off to a buyer and how breeders like yourself view what they do. Great response.

As a former steward, I often let the other side talk as much as they liked. Yep, people love to talk. Especially about themselves. You get things you would never get by asking a specific question. Put it on their shoulders. 

I see your point on a first dog and no vet. That would be a tough decision depending on the breed involved maybe. Training would kind of go hand in hand as far as the experience aspect too.

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