# It happened yet again: off-lead dog runs up on us and owner does nothing.



## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

People are lucky that I'm so nice and polite while handling stressful and pressure situations. If I told them what I was really thinking/feeling, I'd get into fistfights weekly. Haha. I'm always trying to "do it right" and follow the rules and obey the laws, and I know I'm not perfect either.

So I took Paw Paw on a bike ride last night, and he has to remain on lead 100% of the time due to zero recall. I took him to the cemetery that we always utilize for runs and bike rides. He got all ALERT and when I looked to my left, here comes a yellow lab off lead running up on us. I had to hop off my bike to ensure Paw Paw didn't drag me off. We use this cemetery a lot and rarely ever see someone else with a dog. Usually we're the only ones in there. Maybe once every 4 months do we see another dog, and it's normally on lead. 

So I'm looking around for this dog's owner and I see a guy on a cell phone far away. He isn't even aware that his dog ran off. The dog slowly walks closer and closer. I get a good grip on Paw Paw and wait for this owner to come get his dog. From a distance, the guy shouts "it's OK, he's friendly!" Funny, because the dog is growling at us up close. (and I'm thinking "Well, that doesn't mean you should assume my dog is friendly!" for your own dog's sake) I know Paw Paw is a dominant alpha intact male, and doesn't do well with other male dogs his size or larger. Females and small dogs are fine, but not big males.

The dog gets in Paw Paw's face and his owner is still doing nothing other than chatting on his cell phone. Paw Paw let this dog know of his dominance by doing the head over the back thing. Finally the man sees the commotion and calls his dog back, and the dog runs off. Whew! Thank you for FINALLY doing something.

Well, the dog returns to its owner, and instead of him grabbing his dog and putting it back on lead, the dog bolts all the way back over to us, and again the owner does nothing. Now the dog is growling more and hackles up, so Paw Paw does the head over again, then mounts this neutered male dog. I get Paw Paw off of him and finally the guy is walking over saying "I hope everything is OK, he's never been in a dog fight." I told him that everything was OK and that I wouldn't let them fight. I also let him know that my dog doesn't do well with dogs his size or larger. 

It's just so frustrating that I have to deal with this almost weekly. I don't always post about our "adventures" but sometimes it gets to me. Paw Paw is restrained on a lead and when an off-lead dog runs up on him, I can see how he might be alarmed knowing that he's restricted on lead and this other dog can freely attack him at will. If Paw Paw attacked first as a warning sign of premature self-defense, I think he would be justified. Nara and Paw Paw have been attacked so many times while on lead by off-lead dogs, so it's second nature to them now to get defensive even if the dog might be friendly. Either way, there are leash laws in this state, and people should follow them to avoid any potential attacks, and so I can exercise my dogs in peace. I couldn't believe this guy, and the fact that I have little time each day to exercise my pack, and this incident is depleting that time and closing our window of opportunity for Paw Paw. It isn't fair to him! ARGH!

I know when I run with Nara I'll sometimes let her off lead, but I'm always up ahead watching for people and dogs, and as soon as I see them, I turn around and put her back on lead, plus she has near perfect recall which this other dog did not because the guy kept calling him and he only returned back once. We usually run in places where we're the only ones, so I don't have to worry about it much, but I'm always watching to make sure I'm not doing to others what gets done to me.

RANT over. Sorry.


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

Wow people are stupid. I'm sorry that has happened to you over and over again. Please don't take this the wrong way I'm only trying to help. I wouldn't let Paw Paw put his head over another dog like that. What if they got into a fight and you somehow couldn't break it up? again I'm not trying to be mean I'm only concerned for yours and paw paws safety. When I've been walking and have had a loose dog approach us I stand in front if my dog sometimes holding my dog behind me, I dont talk to the dog, but I five it eye contact and face the dog and get really big into a dominate stance and usually the dog stops and goes in the opposite direction. I also carry a good walking stick so I can use it to keep a dog at bay until the idiot owner comes and gets my dog, but usually just claiming my space works. I hope that your next walk/bike ride goes better than this one.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Yes, when I walk into the dog park it's a free-for-all of dogs charging the newcomer (my dog). No wonder she's shy... this has been happening since she was little so we go very seldom and she did not overcome it until recently.


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

I feel your pain as this happens to me as well. If anyone lives near Newton Ransom on here, go and walk your dog at the Clarks Summit elementary school. There is a lighted trail back there that would be nice if people knew how to walk a dog but usually I see people with their dogs off leash or on a 5,000ft expandable so their dog gets to you and then 30 min later the owner shows up lol. I love that comment too "oh don't worry he's friendly". Pftttttttt sometimes it's not easy being tolerant.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

DCluver33 said:


> Wow people are stupid. I'm sorry that has happened to you over and over again. Please don't take this the wrong way I'm only trying to help. I wouldn't let Paw Paw put his head over another dog like that. What if they got into a fight and you somehow couldn't break it up? again I'm not trying to be mean I'm only concerned for yours and paw paws safety. When I've been walking and have had a loose dog approach us I stand in front if my dog sometimes holding my dog behind me, I dont talk to the dog, but I five it eye contact and face the dog and get really big into a dominate stance and usually the dog stops and goes in the opposite direction. I also carry a good walking stick so I can use it to keep a dog at bay until the idiot owner comes and gets my dog, but usually just claiming my space works. I hope that your next walk/bike ride goes better than this one.


I was hoping the dog really was friendly so Paw Paw could meet and greet and socialize. I let them sniff. I know I've posted on here before about dogs off lead and some people on this board got offensive that myself and others treat every off-lead dog like it's aggressive when they run up on us. So I tried something different. I let them meet, but as soon as I realized this dog wasn't friendly and Paw Paw wasn't going to get along with it, I moved Paw Paw away, but the dog kept running up on us.

I will always stand with my dog and ensure that he is facing the "aggressor" so he feels safe. I know some people pull their dog away and retreat, forcing your dog to have its back to the off lead dog. I don't want to freak him out and expose his unprotected backside to a potential threat. So we stand together and I'm ready to do whatever is necessary until the problem is handled. If I stood in front of him, he'd be going bonkers behind me trying to see where the dog is at, and it would put me in more danger than when I stand next to him. If they started running around my legs, I'd get all tangled up in his leash. I speak from experience! Haha. Like I said, this happens all of the time. Each situation is different based on time, place and circumstance.

The dog was obviously set on meeting Paw Paw, so it was going to go around me or through me to get to him. I don't want to automatically go into "kick or hit the other dog" mode before I see how it gets along with Paw Paw. If there isn't going to be a problem, then it's all water under the bridge. I just try to stand by my dogs until the other owner takes control over their dog. I've broken up many dog fights, none of which my pack start. Paw Paw has started trouble in dog parks when we first rescued him and were trying to socialize him, which is why we stopped going to dog parks. But while on walks/runs/bike rides, he's never started anything, and I'll always be the first to finish it if a dog does attack, which I've had to do many times already. 

But I know where you're coming from! One day I had Nara out on a run and some GSD mix was barking from across a busy road. It charged us despite oncoming traffic, and I got between it and Nara and threw a karate kick (not that I know karate, but I have played soccer for 30 years) to its face to thwart it off. I didn't make contact because the dog was smart enough to turn around in the nick of time and run back into its yard. The owner came out and apologized, and instead of venting and going off about her and her dog, I'm always the nice guy and said "I just don't want to see your dog get hit by a car!" Why am I so nice all of the time? Ugh!!! I really need to speak my mind, but that would get me in trouble too often. Ha!

Thanks for the advice.


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

Lol ok sounds like you're doing a good job I don't want paw paw to get into another fight and ruin any chance you have with socializing him with other dogs  I've had my fair share of off leash dogs running up to me and dodger even one on a freaking stretchy leash ran up and got in dodgers face!!

Sorry for the typos and weird grammar I'm on my phone haha


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## Heagler870 (Jun 27, 2009)

Wow, people are such dummies! I really know how frustrating that is. Every time I go home the neighbors let their dogs run around. One time I went walking and this dog came up and my old dog Marshall went after the other dog. The other dog wouldn't go away so I had to kick it. It finally left


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

Kudos for being the nice guy. I got frustrated/pissed off reading your adventures. I have had things like that happen NUMEROUS times as well. I have a leash reactive lab, who is leash reactive due to being attacked on lead - and people still assume he's friendly (lab duh) and yell "it's ok, he/she is friendly". Which annoys the crap out of me. No it's NOT ok, and I don't CARE if your dog is friendly - my dog feels attacked even when the other dog is just coming up to sniff. He's great off-lead but on-lead, everyone needs to leave us alone.


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## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

this is why i carry a concealed gun... i wouldn't shoot the dog at all unless extreme (and i emphasize extreme)measures, but more-so it would DEFINATLY get the owners attention and maybe the dog won't go off leash ever again


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## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Montana Scout said:


> this is why i carry a concealed gun... i wouldn't shoot the dog at all unless extreme (and i emphasize extreme)measures, but more-so it would DEFINATLY get the owners attention and maybe the dog won't go off leash ever again


Kinda worried here.. If concealed there should be no reason to remove your firearm unless you intend to shoot. Sounds like you mean wave it around like this is your warning type deal?

If so makes the rest of us gun lugging folk look bad...

Anywho, I'm the same. Though I think end of the day, I would just punch the dog In the face. If it had bit me, then it's done for. Bite my dog.. Umm depends. 

Crazy how folks are though. Some people shouldn't have dogs!


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## PDXDeutschhund (Sep 22, 2010)

You're in Portland so I'm just going to say that this is going to be a regular occurrence. Every time I go to the park, I see dogs off lead. It was fine when Dutch was tiny and I could pick him up and diffuse the situation, but now he's a big boy and often times I have to get involved. The other day he was playing with a pitbull mix pup and the pit kept grabbing him by the neck. Finally we were able to grab the pit and toss it aside. The owner wasn't doing anything.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

All I have to say is kudos to you for keeping your temper. I think the second time the dog ran over I would have yelled some very colorful words to the owner (my husband does tell me I can swear like a sailor). It is one thing if the owner is trying and the dog broke loose but completely different when they are just plain stupid!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

PDXDeutschhund said:


> You're in Portland...this is going to be a regular occurrence.


When we lived in VA, it would happen every now and then, and usually it was some little fluffball who ran under the backyard fence or bolted out the front door with the owner not paying attention. Now that we're in OR, it seems to happen daily! So you're right. I think with all of the "free spirits" out here, they want their dogs to live free and roam and run off lead and not be restricted by "the man" aka "the leash." Haha. I've never seen more off lead dogs in neighborhoods, etc. and the owners don't even realize that it's wrong and they're breaking the law, or maybe they just don't care because they're so free that laws are beneath them.

Either way, my dogs are leash reactive and don't like it when strange dogs run up on them unrestricted, while they are on lead and are restricted. I'll let my dogs defend themselves until the owner of the other dog does something about their dog, and if they don't do anything about it, I will before my dogs will!

Friendly or not, dogs belong on lead unless they are at an off lead dog park or have perfect recall and get recalled (and obey the command) the instant the owner sees another dog approaching. It's like that human that is so nice, they're overly nice, and they like to put their hands on you. As a stranger, you have no idea of this human's intentions. Friendly or not, it could be threatening, especially when we like our space and don't want strangers putting their hands on us. Later on you realize they were harmless and friendly and that's just how they greet and say HI, but before you realized their intentions, you were uncomfortable and deemed them a threat to your personal space. Off lead dogs are threats and make us uncomfortable, even if they're the friendliest dog on the planet. You never know that until it's too late, and if they aren't the harmless, innocent type, it could be too late for your dog or that dog if you let your guard down and a dog fight breaks out.

My guard is always up, and every off lead dog is a threat and deserves whatever happens to them, which is hopefully nothing. If the owner is making an attempt to recall their dog or discipline their dog, then I'll assist to protect my dog and their dog.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I've owned dogs for most of my life and one thing I can ABSOLUTELY 100% assure you is.............

loose dogs are in the world and WILL continue to run up to me and my dogs.

This will happen. For sure.

So I can either get all angry and defensive and mad each and every time. At something I KNOW will happen.

Or I can better prepare myself and my dogs for these meetings.

I choose to prepare MY DOGS and have a plan. And after having dogs for many many many years and having many many many dogs run up to us, I've only had about 3 meetings that were a bit scary.......and even these resulted in no blood shed (BECAUSE I WAS PREPARED AND SO WERE MY DOGS). Not cause I had a gun either.

I train and socialize the heck out of my dogs. Really. On and off leash. Any and all dogs. In any and all situations. So MY dogs are calm. MY dogs don't over react. MY dogs know how to read an oncoming dogs body language and analyze it. MY dogs KNOW HOW TO CALM DOWN AN ONCOMING DOG!

Really! Our dogs can 'learn' to calm down dogs if we don't start mucking around with their learning and ability to 'throw' out their calming signals as well as reading the oncoming dogs.

And if MY dogs was 



> I know Paw Paw is a dominant alpha intact male, and doesn't do well with other male dogs his size or larger. Females and small dogs are fine, but not big males.


so I knew MY dog was likely to be the problem I wouldn't be yelling anything at the other owner but 'MY DOG IS VICIOUS YOU NEED TO GET YOUR DOG'. 'MY DOG WILL FIGHT YOU NEED TO GET YOUR DOG' !!!!! 

Let's look at what really happened (not what we humans interject and fear). One dog ran up to greet you and your dog and then it seemed like ALL KINDS OF CRAZY WAS COMING FROM YOU AND YOUR DOG! 

Do you really think your behavior adding to the calmness and control of the situation? Or did you add to the stress for BOTH dogs?

So while CLEARLY there are 'bad' dogs out there that will injure your dog. What I'm saying is the number of those dogs is infintesimal compared to just the rest of the other dogs who want to just say 'hello'. So for me to go into a complete freak out for the rest of my dogs life every time a dog runs up to say hey makes no sense when there's alot of OTHER things I can do to help my dog.

How I act it key to add to the problem or to the solution. DOG CLASSES are a controlled situation to have my dog learn they don't have to love all other dogs, or even like all other dogs, but they need to BEHAVE and listen to me. 

The other thing is I learned to read dog's 'calming signals' from both my dogs and the oncoming ones. This is vital because we do not read 'dog' well at all. Get the DVD 





 
Welcome to Dogwise.com


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I am one that doesn't appreciate my dog getting charged by a loose dog when mine is on leash under control. However, as Maggie says, it's gonna happen at some point in life.

My dog doesn't appreciate it tho, so with that in mind, while I don't stress out over it (or try not to)..when someone yells to me that "My dog is friendly",,I will yell back, "Mine isn't and I'm not paying your vet bills if they connect"..


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> so I knew MY dog was likely to be the problem I wouldn't be yelling anything at the other owner but 'MY DOG IS VICIOUS YOU NEED TO GET YOUR DOG'. 'MY DOG WILL FIGHT YOU NEED TO GET YOUR DOG' !!!!!
> 
> Let's look at what really happened (not what we humans interject and fear). One dog ran up to greet you and your dog and then it seemed like ALL KINDS OF CRAZY WAS COMING FROM YOU AND YOUR DOG!
> 
> Do you really think your behavior adding to the calmness and control of the situation? Or did you add to the stress for BOTH dogs?.


I didn't freak out though. There was no "ALL KINDS OF CRAZY FROM ME AND MY DOG."

I hopped off my bike and restrained Paw Paw on lead to keep him from advancing, and waited for this owner to do something about his off lead dog. When all he did was shout "it's OK, he's friendly!" I shouted back "well, he's (Paw Paw) NOT!" and then we just stood there waiting for the owner to do something. Due to the fact that he was talking on his cell phone far off from where his dog was, he might not have even heard my response. And when he saw his dog run off after us, he did nothing. It was a while before he even tried to recall his dog because he was too busy on the phone.

I definitely was not stressing or freaking out. Paw Paw can handle himself. That dog should be able to read Paw Paw's body language and know that it's not wise to take another step closer. And I'm all for socializing and letting them meet IF THE DOG IS INDEED FRIENDLY because that's good for my dogs too. But the instant they growl or snarl or attack, the last thing Paw Paw needs to worry about is defending himself, because before he'd be able to get a bite in, I'd be all over that dog. I've done it before with a pitbull who attacked Nara and Paw Paw at the same time. This yellow lab approached and started growling. So much for "it's OK, he's friendly!" And we just stood there waiting and waiting and waiting.

I'm always going to stand my ground and face whatever dog is coming at us. I know we're doing nothing wrong, not breaking any laws, etc. so I'll wait and do my best to diffuse the situation until the irresponsible dog owner gets control over their off lead dog. I should've cursed out every single one of these owners every time this has happened to us, but not once have I ever lost control of my tongue and said anything like that. I'm always kind and polite and calm and IN CONTROL!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I've owned dogs for most of my life and one thing I can ABSOLUTELY 100% assure you is.............
> 
> loose dogs are in the world and WILL continue to run up to me and my dogs.
> 
> This will happen. For sure.


...but you're certainly right about this! I don't know why I'm so shocked each time it happens. Probably because I don't allow my dogs to do it to other people's dogs, and in my ideal world (aka my bubble) other dog owners are equally responsible and would never let their dogs do it to us. Haha.

I can dream, can't I?!?


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

Just want to point out one thing growling doesn't always mean the dog is aggressive. Dogs growl for many different reasons ie if they're unsure or nervous they'll growl. You have to look at their body language to interpret what thier growl actully means. Just thought I'd throw that out there 

Sorry for the typos again I'm on my phone.....still lol


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

DCluver33 said:


> Just want to point out one thing growling doesn't always mean the dog is aggressive. Dogs growl for many different reasons ie if they're unsure or nervous they'll growl. You have to look at their body language to interpret what thier growl actully means. Just thought I'd throw that out there
> 
> Sorry for the typos again I'm on my phone.....still lol


He was growling, showing teeth, hackles up. Didn't look friendly at all, but he didn't attack, so he's lucky. As long as they don't attack, I'm not too worried and even if/when they attack I'm never worried because I know I can handle the situation (at least so far). I just don't like getting interrupted from my exercise session by an irresponsible dog owner and their off lead dog. A responsible dog owner would've hung up the phone and ran over to grab his dog, then apologize for what he allowed to happen. If Paw Paw was as aggressive as some of the dogs that have attacked us, this guy's dog would've been dead before the owner even took one step in our direction. It took him forever to come over and help, and he left me there by myself to monitor the situation and ensure nothing happened to either dog.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

counter said:


> People are lucky that I'm so nice and polite while handling stressful and pressure situations. If I told them what I was really thinking/feeling, I'd get into fistfights weekly. Haha. I'm always trying to "do it right" and follow the rules and obey the laws, and I know I'm not perfect either.
> 
> So I took Paw Paw on a bike ride last night, and he has to remain on lead 100% of the time due to zero recall. I took him to the cemetery that we always utilize for runs and bike rides. He got all ALERT and when I looked to my left, here comes a yellow lab off lead running up on us. I had to hop off my bike to ensure Paw Paw didn't drag me off. We use this cemetery a lot and rarely ever see someone else with a dog. Usually we're the only ones in there. Maybe once every 4 months do we see another dog, and it's normally on lead.
> 
> ...


If your dog "attacks first", then he (and you) are the problem.

Second your other one has "near" perfect recall - what about the other times? Isn't that the same problem that you are ranting about other people about?

Sounds like maybe the hassles of other people's dogs off lead may be getting to you??????????????

Don't blame you for the rant!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

One question comes up - just how does one get in front of your dog when a strange dog comes running up to you? That has happened a couple of times to us (male GSD who sometimes doesn't like other dogs but usuallyis very friendly). Short of almost stringing him up I think it is VERY difficult to be able to get in front of him! Now granted , if (when!) he is well enough trained, I could see a Stay working but that is a really tough temptation to any dog to stay when a strange dog is charging at us.

And it is definetly not fear-aggression in Baron's case.

We are working at it but still need to make some more progress.


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## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

adamdude04 said:


> Kinda worried here.. If concealed there should be no reason to remove your firearm unless you intend to shoot. Sounds like you mean wave it around like this is your warning type deal?
> 
> If so makes the rest of us gun lugging folk look bad...
> 
> ...


not sure where your going here, i have had a concealed weapon for 5 years now and have NEVER drawn it... nobody but my friends even know i have one, and as for "waving" it around... im not some gangster that doesn't know how to shoot a firearm plus thats why i added EXTREME measure


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

I see the dog coming ahead of time and if I have time I put myself between my dog and the other dog.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

codmaster said:


> One question comes up - *just how does one get in front of your dog when a strange dog comes running up to you?* That has happened a couple of times to us (male GSD who sometimes doesn't like other dogs but usuallyis very friendly). Short of almost stringing him up I think it is VERY difficult to be able to get in front of him! Now granted , if (when!) he is well enough trained, I could see a Stay working but that is a really tough temptation to any dog to stay when a strange dog is charging at us.
> 
> .


This is when dog classes, obedience, and our dogs being USED TO US IN A LEADERSHIP role comes into play. 

If I want my dog on my right, she will go on my right. If I want her on my left, she is on my left. If I want to be between my dog and other dog, then I step between (I may have to face my dog though, easier to handle the leash) and turn my head to see the oncoming dog.

The thing is I have to pay attention and act EARLY. *If I was worried about my dog*, I'd yell at the other owner the minute I saw a dog coming towards us and way before either my dog or the other dog is reacting. If I'm worried and want the other owner worried and REACTING, then I'd just lie and say my dog is vicious and will bite. No fooling around, no conversation. Just a flat out lie to get the other owner to move.

I'd like to mention that the meeting your decribed is a NORMAL meetup for most dogs. To the extent that NOTHING HAPPENED! 

Because I know MY dogs won't start a fight, when I see an oncoming dog I yell (when the dog is far off still) 'Is your dog friendly?' If I get ANYTHING except a fast 'yes' then I will get between the dogs and usually turn to go the other direction. The ENTIRE time, I don't even pay attention to my dog. Cause due to all the training and socialization I know 100% for sure absolutely and for sure how they are behaving. They are NOT the problem. Instead I'm all about the oncoming dog and how they are behaving. I read their body language (I could give a crap about the growling close up, that's too late, the knowledge I want is when they are further back when it means something and I have more time to make decisions.)

PLEASE PEOPLE. Socialize your dog so you KNOW their body language and know they will trust you to control the situation. It's not up to my dog to face off a strange dog and deal with a possible fight. IT IS MINE. My dogs know that so let me take the lead. 

PURCHASE 'Calming Signals' so you get the tools you need to do better once you actually know better. Get the DVD so you can SEE what you are supposed to see.


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> This is when dog classes, obedience, and our dogs being USED TO US IN A LEADERSHIP role comes into play.
> 
> If I want my dog on my right, she will go on my right. If I want her on my left, she is on my left. If I want to be between my dog and other dog, then I step between (I may have to face my dog though, easier to handle the leash) and turn my head to see the oncoming dog.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> This is when dog classes, obedience, and our dogs being USED TO US IN A LEADERSHIP role comes into play. If I want my dog on my right, she will go on my right. If I want her on my left, she is on my left. If I want to be between my dog and other dog, then I step between (I may have to face my dog though, easier to handle the leash) and turn my head to see the oncoming dog.
> 
> The thing is I have to pay attention and act EARLY. *If I was worried about my dog*, I'd yell at the other owner the minute I saw a dog coming towards us and way before either my dog or the other dog is reacting. If I'm worried and want the other owner worried and REACTING, then I'd just lie and say my dog is vicious and will bite. No fooling around, no conversation. Just a flat out lie to get the other owner to move.
> 
> ...


Couple of things - First, if any one thinks that Cesar is hard to understand and follow, wait till they try to understand the "Calming Signals" book/DVD. I have both and it makes for very interesting reading/viewing. Problem is that often the same gesture on the dog's part can be interpreted differently by the author.

Maggie, it sounds like you have some greatly trained and most reliable dogs and you are to be congratulated for that. Almost like you could give them a command of "No Fight" or something like that and then they would just stand there and let you jump in front of them and fight off any aggressive dog(s) by yourself. 

I am afraid, like I said previously, that my very protective dog would not yet listen quite so well and pretty much insist on trying his darndest to put himself out front of me and doing the fighting! 

The animal behaviorist has said to me on numerous occasions that Baron is "the most self confident dog that she has ever seen" which contributes to his wanting to be out front and protecting me instead of the other way around with most dogs.

We are still working on his obedience though, and he is getting better; but I am not sure he will ever adopt the behavior that yours seem to have achieved already.

BTW, just in case, do you know how many dog fights and even people bites have occured when the dogs owner has said to someone who the dog(s) are running toward that "*He/she is friendly!*"? 

I wouldn't generally believe that unless I see it for myself. 
Just a thought.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> codmaster;1973974] Almost like you could give them a command of "No Fight" or something like that and then they would just stand there and let you jump in front of them and fight off any aggressive dog(s) by yourself.


There is no 'No Fight' command. I don't have to tell my dogs NOT to fight because that's not something they are thinking about. They are thinking, should I 'sit' ? Do I need to move behind mom? Do I need to sniff? Do I need to yawn? Do I need to avoid eye contact with the oncoming dogs.

My dogs are thinking alot of things when we are out and see other dogs. What they are NOT thinking, is 'Will I fight'? 



> I am afraid, like I said previously, that my very protective dog would not yet listen quite so well and pretty much insist on trying his darndest to put himself out front of me and doing the fighting!


That is BRILLIANTLY said and exactly my point! *Your dog is the leader in the relationship so they know they have to take charge without possibly the history and 'tools' to properly access the situation and behave accordingly! *It's WAY easier for a dog to over react and bark/charge to keep a scary situation away from them and at a distance they can better deal with. 

I feel it's my responsibility to be the leader in the relationship with my dog. I guide and take charge. My dogs follow UNTIL THEY ARE TOLD/SHOWN DIFFERENTLY. I will deal with whatever comes up and they can stay calm.

Not only do I take charge of MY dogs. The other key is I'm taking charge of the entire situation. The other dog and the other handler. But I do it early and I have a plan. Most important part of this was all the earlier work I've been doing for YEARS with my dogs so my dogs read other dogs, and I can read other dogs WITH my dogs. So when we are in a situation that I'm not sure of I'm able to really LOOK at the quiet stuff going on with the dogs. 

All the barking/lunging/fighting is so late in the meeting that it's lose lose for all involved. Those are the behaviors we 'stupid humans' all see and know but we missed the entire minute leading into the 'fight' where the dogs were all tossing out the quiet signals that were clear as a bell to a dog and entirely ignored by the humans. 

Go to dog classes. This will teach your dog that you are a leader who knows what they are doing and will be followed in any and all situations. Dog class can't be duplicated cause it's full of DOGS that you can see and learn from while learning yourself. 

Socialize outside class with other dogs ON and OFF leash so you learn to read all the dog behaviors of your dogs and others as well as teaching your dog that in the 'real' world almost all dogs are friendly so they don't have to be attacked!

Have a plan! When the oncoming dog is far away. So we have to pay attention!!! We can turn and go the opposite direction. We can put our dogs on our other side. We can interact with the other dog owner when they are far away. 

Buy the Calming Signals DVD and watch it. If you need to watch it over and over (I did  ) then do it. She uses tons of 'real' dogs to show what she's trying to explain. She show the behaviors over and over. Many of the dogs are GSD's in the video which is a huge help because it's easier to recognize.

My dogs and I are surrounded by other dogs all the time. Around my home. When I go hiking. At dog shows. On leash and off leash. I owe it to my dogs to prepare them for this 'real' life. So I prepare them and myself. 

This is what I EXPECT from my dogs, and they come thru...





 
Look at not only my dog off leash, but others. And coming up from behind!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> BTW, just in case, do you know how many dog fights and even people bites have occured when the dogs owner has said to someone who the dog(s) are running toward that "*He/she is friendly!*"?


Not sure I have the stats on that. But I do know that in the hundreds (thousands?) of dogs mine have met, when someone has said 'my dog is friendly' I've had ZERO dog fights. So that's a good enough stat for me.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Not sure I have the stats on that. But I do know that in the hundreds (thousands?) of dogs mine have met, when someone has said 'my dog is friendly' I've had ZERO dog fights. So that's a good enough stat for me.


As well it should be good enough for you. That is wonderful for you to be so fortunate.

Like one of the female members of our local obedience club who once told me that she had never met a dog who came running up to them when she was walking her dog that she couldn't just jump out in front of her dog and intimidate the oncoming dog into backing down and running away. She said it didn't matter what breed of dog or how big it was, she could always get it to back away. All I could do was to wish that her statistical luck would continue to hold whenever that unfortunate thing happens to her. Sure sounds like you have that type of incident even more under control than she does.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> There is no 'No Fight' command. I don't have to tell my dogs NOT to fight because that's not something they are thinking about. They are thinking, should I 'sit' ? Do I need to move behind mom? Do I need to sniff? Do I need to yawn? Do I need to avoid eye contact with the oncoming dogs. ......................................
> 
> Buy the Calming Signals DVD and watch it. If you need to watch it over and over (I did  ) then do it. She uses tons of 'real' dogs to show what she's trying to explain. She show the behaviors over and over. Many of the dogs are GSD's in the video which is a huge help because it's easier to recognize.
> 
> ..................


I have the DVD and her book also and have read/watched them many times. The author is not clear at all and a number of folks who have read/seen them agree that it is very difficult to interpret dog language when the same action is very often explained as meaning something different. much of her explanations are very situationally dependent but maybe that is because we just can't understand her explanations, perhaps.

One other question I would be curious about your dogs - do you think that they would fulfill their natural role as protector if you or a family member were attacked, for example if you were in front of them and a strange dog attempted to bite you, or maybe in the rare circumstance that the other owner was a mugger and attacked you? I realize that this would be a rare and unexpected happening, but I am curious as to whether you would even expect them to do so, or would you want them to try to do so.


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## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Montana Scout said:


> this is why i carry a concealed gun... i wouldn't shoot the dog at all unless extreme (and i emphasize extreme)measures, *but more-so it would DEFINATLY get the owners attention* and maybe the dog won't go off leash ever again


How would it get the owners attention? 

This is where I'm lost.. Because if you draw your firearm, you intend to use it. In this case, if you drew because of a hostile dog (biting) then how would you drawing at this situation get the owners attention?


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm really sorry that you keep having to deal with this issue.  I would agree that it is best to think of the worst possible situation for both yourself and your dog to be prepared. I also think that you should stop worrying about being polite in this situation. It seems to be making you even more frustrated and I am sure the dog is picking up on that after the fact too.

I have had several situations happen and here are a few examples:
1. Several years ago, I was on campus and I was walking both of my dogs and a pit mix comes charging at my dogs directly, without hesitation ,at a full sprint. Before I had time to even do anything else, I kicked it directly in the head between it's eyes as it was running towards my dogs. It was not friendly and had no intentions of just saying hi to my dogs. My dogs barely even reacted because they knew I would take care of the situation. The dog ran away after that. I can't agree 100% with the thought that most dogs are friendly that run up to you because most of my experiences have been different than the ones others have described. 

2. An intact, male boxer jumps its fence and has its eyes fixated on my two dogs. I pull my two behind me and I use my body posture and voice to stop the dog in it's tracks. He lunged at me and wouldn't stop barking, but eventually ran off. My two dogs were extremely calm behind me. I am still impressed with how they handled it. I was a big ball of adrenaline after wards. 

3. I was outside with my GSD and the neighbor let her lab mix out and it was off leash. It went STRAIGHT for my dog the exact same way the others did....and grabbed his neck and started to shake him. He didn't fight back bless his heart. That was happening for a few seconds before I came up and grabbed their dog and lifted it off the ground. My dog was fine and the owner was embarrassed. I think the biggest thing to do in these situations is to not baby your dog after or even act like anything happened at all. 

Again, I completely understand your frustrations. We have had good experiences with other dogs, don't get me wrong, but I think it is always best to be cautious and prepared.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

lar07 said:


> I'm really sorry that you keep having to deal with this issue.  I would agree that it is best to think of the worst possible situation for both yourself and your dog to be prepared. I also think that you should stop worrying about being polite in this situation. It seems to be making you even more frustrated and I am sure the dog is picking up on that after the fact too.
> 
> I have had several situations happen and here are a few examples:
> 1. Several years ago, I was on campus and I was walking both of my dogs and a pit mix comes charging at my dogs directly, without hesitation ,at a full sprint. Before I had time to even do anything else, I kicked it directly in the head between it's eyes as it was running towards my dogs. It was not friendly and had no intentions of just saying hi to my dogs. My dogs barely even reacted because they knew I would take care of the situation. The dog ran away after that. I can't agree 100% with the thought that most dogs are friendly that run up to you because most of my experiences have been different than the ones others have described.
> ...


Your dog wouldn't fight back even after the other dog grabbed it? 

Wow! Good thing that you were there to fight for him. And good thing that the other dog didn't grab you first.

How old was your dog when this happened?


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

codmaster said:


> Your dog wouldn't fight back even after the other dog grabbed it?
> 
> Wow! Good thing that you were there to fight for him. And good thing that the other dog didn't grab you first.
> 
> How old was your dog when this happened?



He was a little over a year old. It was also only a few seconds before I was picking that horrible dog off of him. And that is my job...to fight for my dogs until proven otherwise! I want my dogs to know that I am in control of the situation. But yes, The lab mix wasn't small, and I am not the biggest person in the world, but adrenaline allows you to do some amazing things! lol:wild:


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## white trouble (Dec 9, 2010)

i feel for you. gsd's are listed at aggressive dogs by me and would take the blame regardless of fault,same with my pitbulls and shar-pei. me and my dogs have been attacked by off leash or stray dogs. a mastiff tore one of my dogs scalp nearly off and almost ripped off my knee cap...now i'm disabled. its hard for me to move at all when its cold so i dont take the pack out during winter,just bacause i wouldnt have the energy to defend me or the dogs or seperate 7 or 8 dogs off a dog that picked a fight. i take at least 4 out at a time when we do walk...fortunatly allmy other dogs are very friendly,well socialized and obedient. my dogs,even the pittbulls have been ripped into,requiring alot of stitches,meds and money,without ever once fighting back. the only real time my dogs attacked back was in 2008 when the mastiff grabbed me...the owner was never found,or at least it never came forward to claim its dog. i am current on my rabies shots though,me literally,and my husband too. a rott attack a few months ago. where we are now we have only been for 3 months. there are so many stray animals and irresponsible pet owners and animal dumps by me. i am nervous to take my dogs out for walks. there was an incident 3 weeks into buying my current house with 2 loose dogs. my boxers are still covered in scabs and bald spots and my pit broke a tooth. sorry i'm venting too..if you cant take care of and control your animals you should not have them. i believe that with children too...all my animals,other than 5 week old trouble are altered....


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

lar07 said:


> I'm really sorry that you keep having to deal with this issue.  I would agree that it is best to think of the worst possible situation for both yourself and your dog to be prepared. I also think that you should stop worrying about being polite in this situation. It seems to be making you even more frustrated and I am sure the dog is picking up on that after the fact too.
> 
> I have had several situations happen and here are a few examples:
> 1. Several years ago, I was on campus and I was walking both of my dogs and a pit mix comes charging at my dogs directly, without hesitation ,at a full sprint. Before I had time to even do anything else, I kicked it directly in the head between it's eyes as it was running towards my dogs. It was not friendly and had no intentions of just saying hi to my dogs. My dogs barely even reacted because they knew I would take care of the situation. The dog ran away after that. I can't agree 100% with the thought that most dogs are friendly that run up to you because most of my experiences have been different than the ones others have described.
> ...


I love what you did and how your dogs are prepared to allow and let you step in. ALL 3 of your meetings went the way my meetings go!

YOU are paying attention so see the dogs coming. Your DOGS see it too and let you deal with it (#1 and #2) and you did exactly the correct and proper thing so there was no dog/dog contact.



> My two dogs were extremely calm behind me


That's what I've been trying to describe. That your dogs know you are the leader and in control and YOU will deal with it so YOUR dogs aren't adding to the problem and confusion.

If I've let people think there are not aggressive and bad dogs out there, that was not my intent. There ARE 'bad' dogs that will try to get your dog. But the actual and TRUE number of vicious dogs that will just come in and REALLY attack is EXTREMELY low if YOUR dog isn't adding to the aggression and YOU are dealing appropriately with the situation.

So for me to treat ALL dogs that are running up as a 100% attack that my dog has to deal with by attacking first isn't reality. It's just not.

BTW, Turid Rugaas comes to the USA and you can attend her seminars if you find her DVD too confusing. The entire point of the DVD is we need to pay attention to the more subtle and quiet signals our dogs are tossing out. And if we can't see them on a DVD when she's narrating and specifically showing them.................. then that's making it even clearer why we miss them in real life. We need to learn more, pay attention, and get better at recognizing both the obvious dog language (growl/bark/snarl) as well as the quiet stuff they toss out earlier (sniffing, yawning, licking)....

I will never say this 'dog thing' is easy. But for those of us that are open to learning more and paying attention earlier, we find that we have much calmer walks, less stress on those walks, and OUR DOGS learn they can also calm down, let us take the lead and then there are no attacks/vet visits/blood shed.

Truth is, my goal is no dog fights/contact. Not that 'my dog protected me/my dog took on that other dog'. Because any dog/dog contact can mean vet visits for BOTH dogs. So my dog may win............but thousands of dollars later with the vet isn't winning to me.


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I love what you did and how your dogs are prepared to allow and let you step in. ALL 3 of your meetings went the way my meetings go!
> 
> YOU are paying attention so see the dogs coming. Your DOGS see it too and let you deal with it (#1 and #2) and you did exactly the correct and proper thing so there was no dog/dog contact.
> 
> ...


Good post!  That is my goal too. I don't want that to ever happen where there is blood shed and vet bills. Thankfully, that has never happened to us. I don't want to see if my dog will defend itself or not. It is my job as the leader to protect them and be aware of our surroundings. We have met people on trails before with their dogs off leash as well and we ended up all walking together and everyone does great. That has happened more than once. A lot of it is observing the dog's body language while they are still a distance away, it is slight and it happens quickly, but you learn it.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I, on the other hand, want my dog to be jumped on by another dog and to get all ripped up! NOT!

I don't think anyone on this forum wants to see their dog get into a fight! 

Just a good discussion of how one would go about helping to prevent such a thing from happening.

That said, I would be shocked if my dog did not at least try to prevent me from being bitten by a strange aggressive dog that came up to us and attacked us. 
Our breed is supposed to be protective of their family (pack?) when needed. If you want a Golden Retreiver temperament, then probably better to have a Golden Retreiver.

I would be equally shocked, however, if he showed aggression to a friendly dog and/or person coming up to us while out walking.

Just an opinion.


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

codmaster said:


> I, on the other hand, want my dog to be jumped on by another dog and to get all ripped up! NOT!
> 
> I don't think anyone on this forum wants to see their dog get into a fight!
> 
> ...


My GSD was a PUPPY and the dog attacked him while he was turned around getting a toy to bring back to me. The owner literally opened her door and her dog bolted out to him in seconds, not to me. The attack only happened for a few seconds because I removed the dog. He became more aware as he got older. That doesn't make his temperament that of a Golden's just because he didn't turn around fast enough and "courageously" nail that dog back to the ground, especially for his young age. The dog was removed, I checked my dog for wounds, and I started to play with him again so that he wouldn't correlate that with fear. No reason to tell people they need to choose a different breed just because of your perception.


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## Olivers mama (Oct 13, 2010)

white trouble said:


> ...gsd's are listed at aggressive dogs by me...


I'm curious as to why you feel that way, about GSDs being aggressive. In my workings as an AHT, the only dogs that were biters were the small ones: Poodles, Doxies, many terriers. Never a large dog. Just curious why you feel that way...

We had a similar encounter this past Mon at the vet. Ziva needed a booster shot & have her ears checked. Some dingledorf walks thru the door with her older lab. Walked right up to us & her dog shoves his face into Ziva's (well, tried to - DH kept him at arm's length). The lady asked if it was OK, as her "dog is the best in the world".  I told her no, it wasn't OK, as we'd only had this dog 3 months & don't know - yet - what she'd do. Then Ms. Dingledorf takes center stage in the waiting room, telling all who would listen, how wonderful her dog is...:smirk:

It turned out OK, but because Ziva was a Rescue, we have absolutely NO idea what all her reactions are going to be. I keep telling people to stay away (like neighborhood kids), but we live in such a "ME" society, I guess everyone thinks it's OK to do whatever you want.

I admire those of you that have such good control over your dogs & I imagine it's easier to get that training started when the dog is a young pup. At almost 2 years old & already 83 lbs, it's gonna take a lot more than watching a few DVDs to teach us to teach her. In the meantime, I don't want any dog or person to confront her unless I give the OK.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

lar07 said:


> My GSD was a PUPPY and the dog attacked him while he was turned around getting a toy to bring back to me. The owner literally opened her door and her dog bolted out to him in seconds, not to me. The attack only happened for a few seconds because I removed the dog. He became more aware as he got older. That doesn't make his temperament that of a Golden's just because he didn't turn around fast enough and "courageously" nail that dog back to the ground, especially for his young age. The dog was removed, I checked my dog for wounds, and I started to play with him again so that he wouldn't correlate that with fear.* No reason to tell people they need to choose a different breed just because of your perception. *


What the heck are you talking about? Did you actually read what I wrote right above? I said "*If you want a GR temperament*, then buy a GR". I distinctly *DID NOT* tell anyone "to choose a different breed"!

Would you not agree that if someone wants something then that is what they should buy?

A GSD *should be* protective of their family - there are a lot of GSD's who are not, because of lack of nerve, or maybe they are just too friendly and easy going; but the standard does call for it as do many of their jobs.

And of course anyone who knows much about dogs would not expect a puppy to demonstrate courage and tenacity, and the ability and will to fight back. And I would never say that your puppy should have done that either - relax a little. No one was denigrating your puppy.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Can we say "deja vu!?!"

So yesterday evening I took Nara with me on a bike ride to the cemetery. Well, guess what?! Same guy. Same dog. Same exact location. Same situation. Different results!

So before I could get off my bike, Nara had the leash fully extended because she saw that same big, male, yellow lab charging her. I started pulling her in, but before I could get to her, the dogs were sniffing it out. Nara must've sensed that something was off, or wrong, or maybe she just didn't like this dog, or maybe it was because of her leash reactivity, but she tore into him and got about three bites in before the dog was smart enough to run away and I could get better control of her. I pulled her close to my front side as I was losing my balance and didn't want to fall over as she was pulling and lunging and standing up on her hind legs, barking.

You know what the dog's owner did?...he turned his back on us and his own dog, and started walking in the other direction. He didn't recall his dog or anything. Maybe he was embarassed because this is the second time he's allowed his dog to charge us off lead.

As I got better footing and more control over Nara, I channeled my inner germanshepherds.com forum advice, and I put my body in front of Nara. She instantly went calm, knowing I was in the proper position to protect her instead of the other way around. This yellow lab, after getting run off by Nara's attack, decided he wanted another piece of us, so he turned around and charged again. I turned my body sideways and used my left leg to raise up and stomp the ground in a kicking motion as the dog got in close. It was enough to scare him away. By now, the owner decided to recall his dog, so the dog ran off about 20 yards, then ignored the recall, turned around and charged at us a third time. I repeated the kicking motion that was successful the last time he charged us, and it was successful again. The dog got scared and ran away, and when the owner recalled him a second time, this time the dog obeyed and ran all the way back to his owner. The owner never put him back on lead as far as I could tell. He and his off lead dog just walked away as Nara and I continued our bike ride in the opposite direction.



So, 2 good things came out of this:

1. I now know that, if need be, Nara has the ability to attack and defend. I've never seen her do this before. Whereas Paw Paw has been in 5 dog fights, Nara has been in 0. They are both 3 years old and still maturing. 

Obviously I don't want her being aggressive and just attacking any old friendly dog, but to know that she has what it takes to defend me until I am able to defend her makes me proud.

2. The advice some of you gave me about standing in front of my dog and defending it definitely worked! I've used this method before when a GSD mix ran across the street barking and charging through traffic, and I went to kick it in the head. He stopped about an inch from my boot and ran away...lucky for him. So I'll continue to use this method as long as it proves successful each time.

The only thing I worry about is, what if a REALLY AGGRESSIVE dog attacks--a dog that would not be afraid of me or my dog--a dog that is willing to sacrifice a blow or kick to the head to get at my dog, or chomp on my leg!? I guess I'll cross that road when/if I come to it. Not every dog is going to fear a human or a big GSD. Some dogs will lock on target and are relentless enough to stop at nothing until they've achieved what they set out to accomplish. Extreme situations call for extreme measures, and I have yet to meet that dog, but I'm sure it exists out there somewhere.


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

Wow that owner is stupider than I thought!!! I'm glad standing in front of your dog worked. I don't know what you would do if there was a really aggressive dog attacking you as I have never been in that situation. But my advice grab a stick shove it in the dogs mouth and twist it should break the dogs hold on yours. Or if someones around use the wheel barrow method. I hope that guy learned his lesson and keep his dog on a leash or at least work with him on a solid recall.


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

Oh I forgot to mention standing sideways usual is a submissive posture, maybe next time (hopefully there won't be a next time) try stand facing the dog with your head up, shoulders back, and chest puffed out.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

DCluver33 said:


> Oh I forgot to mention standing sideways usual is a submissive posture, maybe next time (hopefully there won't be a next time) try stand facing the dog with your head up, shoulders back, and chest puffed out.


I stood sideways because my hands had control over Nara and were holding her lead tight. I didn't want to stand facing the dog with my hands holding Nara behind my back. That would've left my stomach and chest (and crotch...youch!) exposed for a potential attack. Although Nara didn't budge, not even an inch, once I was in front, I didn't want to risk her knocking me down or tangling me in her leash. Whatever I did worked, as the dog ran away. Thanks for the advice!


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

counter said:


> I stood sideways because my hands had control over Nara and were holding her lead tight. I didn't want to stand facing the dog with my hands holding Nara behind my back. That would've left my stomach and chest (and crotch...youch!) exposed for a potential attack. Although Nara didn't budge, not even an inch, once I was in front, I didn't want to risk her knocking me down or tangling me in her leash. Whatever I did worked, as the dog ran away. Thanks for the advice!


Lol true true. Glad you were able to stop the dog. Stupid owner. It's sad when someone let's their dog be off leash and 1 not control it and 2 make sure it's dog friendly.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Yes there are dogs that won't be the least bit put off by a person no matter how you stand, but fortunately they are few and far between, esp. if you and your dog can put up a united front. (I met one once - a pit as it turned out). You can always carry a club/mace or bear spray to assist in this rare case.

Thank goodness that you and your dog are ok!


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

counter said:


> Can we say "deja vu!?!"
> 
> So yesterday evening I took Nara with me on a bike ride to the cemetery. Well, guess what?! Same guy. Same dog. Same exact location. Same situation. Different results!
> 
> ...


WOW! I am really glad you tried that method though.  I have been tempted to buy a police baton to carry in my pocket that extends. That would do some serious damage to a dog who insists on attacking you or your dog. Mace simply does not work on dogs like it does on people, so I do not suggest that. I hope that you don't have to have this happen ANYMORE!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

lar07 said:


> WOW! I am really glad you tried that method though.  I have been tempted to buy a police baton to carry in my pocket that extends. That would do some serious damage to a dog who insists on attacking you or your dog. Mace simply does not work on dogs like it does on people, so I do not suggest that. I hope that you don't have to have this happen ANYMORE!


before you get an expandable baton, make sure of the laws in your area. If you can "hide" it in your pocket then it can be considered a concealed weapon.


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## lisgje (Sep 3, 2010)

About 8 years ago when my previos GSD was about 5 months old we were walking in my neighborhood and were right around the corner from my house when a Mastiff (at least 130 lbs) came charging from across the street. He tried to attack ME AND MY DOG. After telling the dog no and leave it, it attacked us and I was yelling for help as we were cornered at a driveway, no matter which way I tried to go this dog was relentless. I was trying to put myself between me and my dog as Shane was still a puppy and was terrified. This dog got in a bite on me and Shane. Fortunately a man in a truck saw what was happening and started beeping his horn, the dog ran across the street and he stayed between us (backing up with us while we got to the corner so the dog could not see us) until I could get to the corner and back to my house. I called the police immediately and reported what happened. I never saw that dog again. The officer told me later when she followed up with me that there had been numerous complaints about the dog. I had never seen the dog loose before and the owners never came out of the house while I was yelling for help, no one came out of their houses. 
I made a point after that to make sure that Shane was socialized with bigger dogs so he would not be traumatized and afraid of all large dogs (we had already been attending obedience classes). That dog was after both of us and Shane being so young was not able to defend himself or me against a 130 lb aggressive dog. Heck, that dog weighed more than I do. I put myself in front of him and got bit for my efforts. Was lucky we were not hurt more seriously, did not draw blood, but I had some bruises and teeth marks on my leg. Point is, each situation is different and you never know where or when a stray dog may come up to you. Since then, I pay much more attention to my surroundings. Not a big fan of the local park as way too many people let their dogs off leash and don't really pay attention to where their dogs are.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

You and your pup were lucky - mastiff bite and no blood!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> as i got better footing and more control over nara, i channeled my inner germanshepherds.com forum advice, and i put my body in front of nara. She instantly went calm, knowing i was in the proper position to protect her instead of the other way around. This yellow lab, after getting run off by nara's attack, decided he wanted another piece of us, so he turned around and charged again. I turned my body sideways and used my left leg to raise up and stomp the ground in a kicking motion as the dog got in close. It was enough to scare him away. By now, the owner decided to recall his dog, so the dog ran off about 20 yards, then ignored the recall, turned around and charged at us a third time. I repeated the kicking motion that was successful the last time he charged us, and it was successful again. The dog got scared and ran away, and when the owner recalled him a second time, this time the dog obeyed and ran all the way back to his owner. The owner never put him back on lead as far as i could tell. He and his off lead dog just walked away as nara and i continued our bike ride in the opposite direction.


yipppeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

Ha. You should try walking your dog over here in Cambodia.It's like a bad day in Beirut. For a start, front yards are very small here so in the afternoon everyone opens their gate and sits ourside on the street whcih means so do all their untethered,uncollared mutts. None of these mutts are trained for recall or obedience of any kind. Then you have the free-range street mutts that look like the Hounds Of ****. I kid you not when i tell you that when I walk Karma ( on a leash or course ) I take either a 1" thick one metre length of green bamboo with a sharpened spear end OR a smallish tomahawk handle ( no head ). Any dog that makes a charge gets fully belted wherever I can land the blow in front of their owner no hesitation. I have done it three times to different dogs already as they come from out of nowhere with no warning and charge in snarling and foaming at the mouth. I have noticed the owners are starting to grab their dogs as they see us coming.


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