# Just learned of dog aggressive behavior



## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

Hello all! We adopted a gorgeous 6 year old purebred gsd about 3 months ago. She's AMAZING with our kids, AMAZING with us, and very, very protective of us as well. At her adoption, we were told she was "good with dogs" after we got her home we noticed on walks that she was very reactive towards other dogs. She would bark and pull at the leash. She never raised her tail, never showed her teeth, never growled and would often sit down and cry if she couldn't get to the dog. I was told that was reactive behavior. 
As she became more comfortable with us, she calmed down quite a bit and has been ignoring other dogs. There have been one or two times where she would bark, but she never fixated on the dogs and walked away without any issues. 
We took her to a behavior assessment where she would meet another dog (this dog was very calm) When we got there it seemed like a shelter setting. Dogs were in kennels, barking loudly. Our dog seemed a bit nervous and started panting and pacing once we were in the assessment area. I ended up leaving the assessment area because I knew I would get nervous and I did not want her to pick up on my nerves. As soon as I left she started trying to squeeze through the gates (it was enclosed in outdoor metal fencing with plastic tarps attached for privacy) and she kept trying to jump over the fence to get to me. I went to the opposite side of the building but I could still hear everything. Within 2 minutes of me leaving I heard what sounded like a dog fight. My husband told me to go back to our dog. They informed me that she displayed none of the "warning signs" typically associated with an attack, as soon as the other dog entered the room she bit his tail. He got free and she lunged at his shoulder or neck and bit him (they weren't sure if it was shoulder or neck as it all happened so fast) they pulled her away from him and removed the other dog. They said it was confusing because she showed no "signs" she just attacked. My son (who was in the assessment area with her) said our dog snapped at the woman who pulled her away from the other dog. They said that after I left she seemed very distressed. They didn't have any recommendations for me beyond obedience classes. Does anybody have any advice or can anybody recommend any trainers in Wisconsin (closer to Milwaukee) who can rehabilitate dog aggressive dogs? 

I'm not sure if she truly is dog-aggressive or if it was all just too much for her and she was really stressed. After we left she was what I describe as frantic panting and pacing for about 4 hours that night. She could not be calmed. Any help would be appreciated!! And I'm sorry this is so long, I feel an explanation of events was necessary to give a better idea of how she is and how it happened. Thanks for any help!


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

It sounds like she was put in a very stressful situation. It doesn't sound like there was much in place for safety before the introduction. I would look for other help else where. Talk to the trainer/behaviorist and find out what is going to happen before it does so that you can advocate for your dog. I feel like she was set up to fail.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

No offense, but seeing how stressed she was, you or the trainer, should have put a stop to any trying to introduce to other dogs. She was set up for failure. She displayed plenty of signs of a dog that is being pushed past their threshold. 

Take some time. Build the relationship. Teach her some confidence, don't just throw her into a strange environment. Obedience classes, lots of good exercise, brain games. 

She sounds like a dog whose world has been flipped, she is unsure, and needs guidance.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Luvpups said:


> I'm not sure if she truly is dog-aggressive or if it was all just too much for her and she was really stressed.


I suspect it's the latter. Actual dog aggression would have shown its face much earlier.

You say you adopted her. She could have spent time in a very similar facility/environment, and being in that environment can trigger bad memories/emotions. Couple that with her primary handler (you) seemingly abandoning her, and you've got a nervous wreck. She likely felt like she was getting abandoned again.

Things I don't like:
- the environment in which this "testing" was done
- you walking away or being sent away

The whole thing sounds weird. The bite is obviously not a good thing, but I wouldn't lose sleep over this. Give yourselves a week or two to relax and get back into routine, then (if you want to do obedience training or anything else) find a local Schutzhund club and ask them for a trainer recommendation.


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## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

I have never had a dog that showed "reactive" or "aggressive" behavior before, so I trusted the people who set it up. They advertise and work with our shelter to assess the behavior of dogs. I had no idea it was going to go so fast and or what was going to happen as I've never dealt with this before. They explained to me that they do this type of assessment everyday at least 10 times a day, so I assumed this was the right place to go. I felt horrible for leaving the area, but I just knew I was going to be very nervous and I didn't want her to pick up on that and they suggested I be out of the area when the meeting took place. I appreciate all of he feedback very much!


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

My previous GSD was 2 years old, when I adopted her from the shelter. Like your dog, she was amazing with my young children and all people. She adored every child that came into our home. Her surrender paperwork said she was good with other dogs. Not true. She was clearly reactive/aggressive to other dogs.

I made the decision to manage her. No, she was not a go everywhere kind of dog. She wore a muzzle on walks and to the vet. She was used to that and learned to ignore other dogs. We played with her in our large yard and she lived a long happy life.

It sounds like you were on the right track as, prior to this incident, she had started to ignore other dogs. You may or may not be able to change your girls' behavior. For me, it was something I could live with. It wasn't even that difficult to manage.


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## Jake and Elwood (Feb 1, 2014)

I am still a novice so wouldn't presume to analyze except from purely a common sense angle. Seems like she became very stressed in that environment and then to watch you leave sent her over the edge. I have been led down a couple of ridiculous training paths by both "trainers" and a "behaviorist". What I have learned ( the hard way) is that many dog "experts" are not equipped to read, analyze, or handle a GSD. I hope someone who lives in your area can suggest a competent trainer for you. If not, search for a GSD club and get advice from other local GSD owners. Good luck!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Can I ask a stupid question:

Why is it important to you that she be rehabilitated?

Is it important to you that the dog be allowed to freely access other dogs? 

I guess, my question is what behaviors are you expecting from the dog with regards to other dogs, and why?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I used a cageless kennel to board my rescues because no one would watch them for us when we went out of town. They always introduce dogs very slowly to other dogs, selecting a very calm, non threatening dog. They first watch the dogs interact through a fence. If they get along, they bring one dog in and watch them. If there is any aggression at all, they immediately pull the dog out and the test is done. If the dogs get along, they slowly introduce a second dog.

If the dog being evaluated shows any anxiety, the test stops even before a dog is brought into the space. The test is typical, but they handled it wrong.


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## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

It's not a stupid question at all. I own a side by side tow home and family members live next door, they have 4 dogs. We have a shared yard and shared entry way, so it was important for me to get a dog that was good with other dogs. Now we are checking and watching that the other dogs are nowhere around when we take her out, and now that we have her and she's a member of the family I would obviously never give her back. My neighbors dogs are on the smaller side and they (neighbors)are nervous around our dog so we thought the assessment would have been a good idea, in case the precautions we were taking were unnecessary and the dogs could be friends. That, and there are a lot of people around the area that walk their dogs off leash, some of the dogs have made a run at our dog and she reacted to them, which was another reason I wanted her evaluated. Now I put her in the car and take her to an area I know have very few dogs to walk/run her. As for the rehabilitation, if she's never able to be around dogs, it's not a problem for us, but if being in the presence of dogs makes her feel the need to be aggressive I do want to be able to work with someone who can teach me how to help her and deal with the situations that best fit her needs.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

That's a good idea. Find a behavior specialist who works with dog on dog aggression.


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## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

Thank you all for your answers! They are helping me a lot! I assumed they would know how to handle it since they "do it on a regular basis". I have felt horrible that I put her in that situation and after we left when she was acting very stressed I felt I did the wrong thing. I don't know her very well yet as she is still adjusting to us, and I've never dealt with this sort of issue before so I was naive as to what would happen and the whole process. But I truly thank all of you for your help, your input and opinions!! It really means a lot to us, as these were "professionals", and we felt somewhat confused after everything happened. But thanks again everyone!!


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

When it comes to professionals, it's ok to question them. If you feel uncomfortable, don't go along with it. You need to be able to have trust! If it doesn't feel right in your gut, it's probably not right!


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

sounds like you have a great rescue.

Without knowing her history, I'd say she sounds like a good dog.

Not all dog's like other dogs.

The trainer or evaluator clearly doesn't know what they are doing. I mean, taking a rescue and putting her in such a stressful situation is abusive.

I understand that you didn't realize this and am not making a judgement on you.

Love her and let her become more trustful of you and your family.

If she never likes other dogs or is fearful (and that sounds more likely to me) so be it.

Thank you for taking her in.

did I miss it, or have you posted photos?


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

zyppi said:


> The trainer or evaluator clearly doesn't know what they are doing.


I couldn't agree more! In all the shelter evaluations I've done, I've _never _seen a GSD that didn't clearly telegraph where it's mind was before snapping at another dog (or a person). They silently scream their intentions and convey their stress -- ear positions, tail, facial muscles, eyes, etc. They give clear warnings, if you know what to look for. You have to slow down to read them though.

That's the likely exactly the problem here: a lot of non-GSD people just don't know what signs to look for in this breed. Many people just don't see that a 1/4" change in an ear angle and lip licking is the dog's desperate attempt to give a clear warning. 

I really doubt that this dog failed to convey she was stressed and reactive to the evaluator. I am more inclined to believe the people at this facility didn't see it, or misread the signals, though. 

In I were in Wisconsin, and I needed a behaviorist, I would really try to work with Dr. Patricia McConnell (who is adjunct faculty at UW-Madison), even if it meant doing some driving to get to her. She's a giant in the field of canine behavior. If you get to work with her, I'll be very excited for you, and want to hear all about it!  

I don't think she's still seeing clients, but it's worth asking. Even if she's not, she surely has produced some students who are now CABs and practicing in Wisconsin. Her websites are patriciamcconnell.com and theotherendoftheleash.com -- maybe try sending her an email through the UW zoology dept, and see if she'll consult with you, or refer you to one of her students:
Patricia McConnell - Department of Zoology - University of Wisconsin - Madison


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I would think about organizing pack walks with your family members and the dogs who share your property. starting a good ways away (or in back) and gradually decrease distance each walk.... she doesn't have to become best buds with strange dogs but surely she can learn to cohabitate with the existing pups - assuming they're a stable bunch.


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## flyfisher22 (Feb 28, 2011)

Luvpups said:


> Hello all! We adopted a gorgeous 6 year old purebred gsd about 3 months ago. She's AMAZING with our kids, AMAZING with us, and very, very protective of us as well. At her adoption, we were told she was "good with dogs" after we got her home we noticed on walks that she was very reactive towards other dogs. She would bark and pull at the leash. She never raised her tail, never showed her teeth, never growled and would often sit down and cry if she couldn't get to the dog. I was told that was reactive behavior.
> As she became more comfortable with us, she calmed down quite a bit and has been ignoring other dogs. There have been one or two times where she would bark, but she never fixated on the dogs and walked away without any issues.


I have had reactive dogs and this sounds more like it might be excitement to me.


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## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

Thanks everyone! I went to the shelter I adopted her from today and spoke with her adoption counselor, and she agreed the way they handled it was all wrong. She said there were no issues with her meeting another dog when she arrived at the shelter, but that she may have either leash reactive behavior or barrier reactive behavior based on how she acted when she was in the shelter...I will try and find someone who specializes in gsd here but I am happy to hear more suggestions/thoughts/opinions! All of your comments helped me a lot! This is an awesome site!! Thank you!!!!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

My male GSD that I adopted from the shelter lunged, barked and growled at the first dog we seen as soon as I signed the papers, which was not good because the stupid leash they supply you with can't hold a fly. I observed him for a couple weeks. When I took him back to the shelter for his 10 day exam they had to put us across the shelter in a room by ourselves, then when they called us about 5 people guided us through moving all dogs in his path, it was like the parting of the Red Sea. This dog not only barked and lunged, he was in the air, he seriously sounded and looked (hackles up)like he wanted to kill other dogs. I had him evaluated, the trainer met us at a local park so she could see how he was in a real setting. It was determined it wasn't aggression, no other signs of nervousness, licking lips, etc. he wasn't allowed in classes, we tried one with a barrier and that was a big fail. So I decided to train on my own. I wanted him to take classes and enjoy walks. We spent everyday for a couple hours training for about 3 months or so, never missed a day. I was finally able to take him to classes at the GSD club, within a month of that I was able to take him to a local dog event where he got his CGC and became a certified therapy dog.

It can be done with consistency, time and patience


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## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

That sounds exactly like her!!! I'm having difficulties finding a class that will take her because of her barking. I have been working on her ignoring dogs as they approach by us walking in the opposite direction (that's the only consistent method I've read about that I feel comfortable doing on my lol) it's good to know there's hope for her, I feel terrible for her that she gets so worked up when we are out and there are dogs anywhere. Thank you!!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what do you mean by this "and very, very protective of us as well"


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## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

She stands in front of myself or my children when we are out if she senses something. There was an aggressive dog on one of our walks (this dog has bitten several people and dogs) the dog started lunging at my daughter and she got in front of my daughter and did not do her usual barking and pulling, but she just sat in front of her and stared this dog down. It all happened so fast, I picked my daughter up and she stayed put standing in front and staring at this dog. On another occasion we were walking and a man came up to us and as he was talking he kept getting closer and closer and she got in between us and started barking at him (which she normally doesn't do) he asked if the dog bites and I said yes, and he backed away. She kept barking until he was a good distance away. That same man approached a dog walker while she was walking her and she did the same thing to this man (barking at him and pulling on the leash) with the dog walker. She is normally very friendly with everyone, but there have been instances where she has not been so friendly with a few people. She has been protective of my daughter since the day we brought her home. We call my daughter squeaker, she tends to squeak in excitement at very high pitches and every single time she does this our dog jumps to her to make sure she is okay. Once she sees she's okay, our dog goes back to whatever she was doing. She's an amazing dog, and we are so fortunate that we found her. That's what I mean by she's very protective of us.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

" she tends to squeak in excitement at very high pitches and every single time she does this our dog jumps to her to make sure she is okay."

make sure you are interpreting things correctly.

your sample could be the dog being triggered in prey drive -- squeaky toys -- mimicking an injured animal that needs to be dispatched.

describe the dogs body, ears , tail, hackles etc when this "protection" happens

so you have a dog walker for her --


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Lisl is dog aggressive and always has been. She doesn't tolerate other dogs in her space, but will calmly walk by a fenced dog or a tied-up dog while we are out walking.


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## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

Her tail is often straight and high when she seems to be protective, heckles never raised. She walks over, sniffs around my daughter and whomever is with her, if she seems fine, she walks away. One time my daughter fell while spinning in circles and started crying, our dog ran over, licked her face and sat with her until she stopped crying. As soon as my daughter seemed fine, she walked away. I don't know how to explain it better, but I did question that when I first got her as her being territorial of her, but after having her and watching how she interacts with our daughter we came to the conclusion she is protective of her. 
And I did try a dog walker, I thought perhaps it was ME causing her behavior (maybe she was picking up on something I was unaware I was putting out there) and I had someone come and take her on a walk for 2 weeks at noon. She acted the same way with the dog walker. She's walked 3 times a day, in the morning before we leave, around lunchtime and in the evening. Normally we do the walking, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't something I was doing.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> My previous GSD was 2 years old, when I adopted her from the shelter. Like your dog, she was amazing with my young children and all people. She adored every child that came into our home. Her surrender paperwork said she was good with other dogs. Not true. She was clearly reactive/aggressive to other dogs.
> 
> I made the decision to manage her. No, she was not a go everywhere kind of dog. She wore a muzzle on walks and to the vet. She was used to that and learned to ignore other dogs. We played with her in our large yard and she lived a long happy life.
> 
> It sounds like you were on the right track as, prior to this incident, she had started to ignore other dogs. You may or may not be able to change your girls' behavior. For me, it was something I could live with. It wasn't even that difficult to manage.


My circumstances were very similar to Stevenzachsmom.
We rescued our former GSD. The vet guessed him to be 2 yrs. old.
he was male dog aggressive and aggressive toward some men. He showed no aggression toward women or children/toddlers/babies, 
Or female dogs.

We consulted a trainer who specialized in GSDs. He worked with our dog and me for about 2 months privately and then we joined that trainer's group advanced obedience class. My dog did very well in that class. 
But he maintained those selective aggressive behaviors outside the class.

Long story short, I learned his triggers and i learned to manage his anti social behaviors, MOSTLY by avoiding men and other male dogs.
When not on our property he was always on a leash or long line (the trainer showed me how to use the long line).
When he swam, he wore a floating long line.

I drove to an empty field every day and we played fetch or frisbee or I'd take him swimming.

It's a lot of work managing an aggressive dog. You can never let your guard down. 
But for me, it was the best time and money I've ever spent. 
We've had a lot of dogs and I loved all of them but our GSD, Jake was an incredible family member. He was really the best of the best.
And he is the reason we got another GSD.

The trainer told me that a GSD will never forget the person or family who rescues him. 
Truly, everyday your dog will find a way to thank you for rescuing her.

Good luck.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Luvpups said:


> Her tail is often straight and high when she seems to be protective, heckles never raised. She walks over, sniffs around my daughter and whomever is with her, if she seems fine, she walks away. One time my daughter fell while spinning in circles and started crying, our dog ran over, licked her face and sat with her until she stopped crying. As soon as my daughter seemed fine, she walked away. I don't know how to explain it better, but I did question that when I first got her as her being territorial of her, but after having her and watching how she interacts with our daughter we came to the conclusion she is protective of her.


This would bug me a little bit. The tail held high when she seems to be protective with no vocal or alerting to you. Is she walking kind of stiff when she investigates a crying child or commotion (somebody loud or sudden body reactions cheering for a football game or whatever)? 

My male was fine and he should have been fine in this situation but he wasn't. We had one of those big old wrap around sectional couches with
recliners on both ends and there were 5 or 6 adults and one 4 or 5 year old sitting next to her mom. Watching a Superbowl and one of the guys next to the child jumped around and cheered. Our GSD had placed himself under the coffee table and we were soon notified by the "cheerer" that there was a problem.

Our GSD had very quickly and quietly latched onto to my brother-in-laws knee under the table and he was not biting down but was not letting go either..... I said one word and he released and I put him outside immediately. My family member was not too happy and kind of pale. 

The point being - even though my dog that knew all there were friends (and he had met them all before and all was good) - he still took it upon himself to set his own rules when a child was in the vicinity - which is a huge no.... they have to alert and look to you for direction - the tail up and not showing concern to you or like my dog did and plant himself to watch all 8 people.....to protect the child.. would be something I would want to get rid of.....


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## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

When we first got her we were concerned she was being dominant over our daughter because we had never seen this type of behavior before. Everyone in my house, including our daughter, maintains an alpha role with her. My daughter feeds her and tells her when to come to the dish to eat. My daughter exits the house before all of us and tells the next person to exit and we continue down the line until we get to our dog, who waits in the house, sitting patiently until she is told to exit. We consistently make sure our children are maintaining the alphabet role in everyday situations. She is amazing with our daughter and it is kind of hard to explain how it all happens when she is being protective of her, but we can just tell its out of concern for her. I only let out a scream once since we've had her when I accidentally hammered my thumb while trying to hang a curtain rod and she acted the same way with me. I totally understand where you are coming from and I never leave my child unattended with any dogs, even my neighbors chihuahua, but we are confident that she is protective of her. And I really appreciate the feedback and will definitely take it into consideration!


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## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

Findlay and Stevenzachsmom; thank you for your comments and help! She really is the best dog I've ever had besides the reactive part. I've never had a dog that listens so well and is so well behaved around people and children! She is so, so smart sometimes it's a little scary lol!! We all just adore her!! And I'm feeling hopeful after hearing everyone's stories/thoughts/opinions.
Thanks to everyone replying! It's helping us so much, I really appreciate it!!


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