# Legality and service dogs



## Greydusk

I have a friend who is a biology professor at a local community college. A girl recently enrolled in his class and brings her service dog with here. The dog is an “environmental sensitivity dog” I have no idea what that is, but apparently he dog seemed well enough behaved until a few days ago when it pooped in the classroom and then dragged its leash through the poop, and throughout the classroom. The professor, who was irritated with the entire situation left the classroom. The girl and dog left soon after without cleaning up the mess (the professor ended up having to clean it himself). 
He wants to know if there is any way to get documentation proving it’s a service dog without violating ADA? Really, I believe he would prefer if the dog was not allowed back in the classroom, but I’m not sure that’s possible.


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## Andaka

I believe that she can be asked how the dog mitigates her disability. In other words, what does the dog do for her? Can she explain what an "environmental Sensitivity" dog does?


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## Lin

Where is the dog kept during class and how did it manage to poop and then drag the leash through the poop? During a class the dog should be a down, and not get up much less be able to poop, and then I don't understand how the dog would have managed to drag the leash through the poop and around the room unless the dog was just wandering about and not being held by the girl. This definitely sounds like a situation where its not a true SD. 

I've also never heard of an environmental sensitivity dog. It sounds like it would be a type of alert dog, such as alerting about environmental allergens.. But in that case the dog would be referred to as a medical alert dog. 

He can ask what tasks the dog does to mitigate her disability, but cannot ask what her disability is. He cannot ask her to present any type of certification or service dog ID according to federal law. Under federal law owner trained SDs are accepted and would not have certification since they did not come from a training organization. 

He CAN ask the dog to leave if the dog is causing a disturbance. Pooping inside and then dragging a leash through it would probably cause a disturbance... And the dog must be under the control of the handler at all times, if the dog is being allowed to wander about or the leash isn't being held something is seriously wrong.

In a situation such as a SD relieving themselves indoors, the handler is required to clean up the mess unless their disability prevents them from being able to do so (such as a guide dog having an accident, but the loss of eye sight preventing the handler to be able to clean up the mess.) I'm appalled at the behavior of just leaving the mess. One time Tessa vomited up a bit of water on the floor at subway, I was mortified and was going to clean it up myself (after rushing her outside to make sure if she still had to vomit it happened outdoors, my ex was standing over the spot) but the employee grabbed the mop and told me to not worry about it.


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## Greydusk

Presuming she doesn't come up with any tasks...Then what? 

If it's just an "emotional support dog" (which is what I'm guessing) then they don't have public access?


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## Greydusk

Lin said:


> Where is the dog kept during class and how did it manage to poop and then drag the leash through the poop? During a class the dog should be a down, and not get up much less be able to poop, and then I don't understand how the dog would have managed to drag the leash through the poop and around the room unless the dog was just wandering about and not being held by the girl. This definitely sounds like a situation where its not a true SD.
> 
> I've also never heard of an environmental sensitivity dog. It sounds like it would be a type of alert dog, such as alerting about environmental allergens.. But in that case the dog would be referred to as a medical alert dog.
> 
> He can ask what tasks the dog does to mitigate her disability, but cannot ask what her disability is. He cannot ask her to present any type of certification or service dog ID according to federal law. Under federal law owner trained SDs are accepted and would not have certification since they did not come from a training organization.
> 
> He CAN ask the dog to leave if the dog is causing a disturbance. Pooping inside and then dragging a leash through it would probably cause a disturbance... And the dog must be under the control of the handler at all times, if the dog is being allowed to wander about or the leash isn't being held something is seriously wrong.


I have no idea how it dragged it's leash through the poop, all I know he wasn't too pleased with having to clean up trails of poo. 

Thank's for taking the time to write out that reply, I'll forward the information along.


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## Lin

Correct, emotional support dogs do not have any public access rights. If she says its an emotional support dog he can tell her she cannot bring the dog to class. (However there IS such a thing as a psychiatric service dog, which is completely different from an ESA.)

If she cannot answer what tasks the dog performs, I would say he should also tell her she cannot bring the dog to class. If she feels her dog is a valid service animal and her rights are not being met, then she can seek out a legal solution but must prove her dog as a SD for that to happen. I would say if she cannot answer such a simple question as what tasks her dog does to mitigate her disability (I can rattle off various tasks my dog does without even needing to think.) then the dog is most definitely not a valid service animal... By the rare chance that it IS, well then she should be better versed on the law and be willing to take full responsibility for the dog and any actions the dog does.


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## GSD_Xander

Maybe pooping and dragging the leash through the poop is how it alerts its handler 

But - in all seriousness? Gross. Sucks that the prof had to deal with that. I have never heard of an environment sensitivity dog. 

I have heard lots of other weird stories about so-called (and maybe they were) service animals - I think most of them were emotional support animals. I've heard of seeing an iguana (large one too), parrot, and cat all as service animals of some type in a grocery store locally. Crazy, huh?


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## Lin

Those people were breaking the law. ESAs do NOT have public access. And when it comes to service animals, under the ADA reformation act of 2008 only dogs are accepted as service animals.


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## GSD_Xander

Lin said:


> Those people were breaking the law. ESAs do NOT have public access. And when it comes to service animals, under the ADA reformation act of 2008 only dogs are accepted as service animals.


Oh, I don't doubt it...I think it's disgusting personally because cats can carry toxoplasmosis, lizards salmonella, and birds...well, I can't remember but I don't think it's any better considering that just like a lizard they will poop anywhere. 

A family member I know works in the grocery store and (if I remember correctly) they're allowed (probably per company policy) to go up and ask the person with the animal if it is a service animal. I can't remember if they're allowed to ask for paperwork. 

I know there are a lot of people with true disabilities that need their dogs to help them but then there are people like this who abuse the system...


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## zeus von entringer staal

Sounds like she is claiming two totally separate categories . A service dog implying she needs one for a disability ( which is a protected class) and , the other an "environmentally sensitive" pet?? I think she is full of it regarding that. The pet has no actual public rights and not even related to the ADA act. There is an "ESA" pet i.e. emotional support animal and here in California we have "companion" animals as well. The "companion" animal owner now is under ADA protection as well like genuine "service" animals. I am not a legal expert but have had to sit through a legal presentation in California explain all this relating to real estate and tenant / landlord laws for my Real Estate company. 
Regarding her leaving the mess there, that was just plain rude and ghetto. She should be fined and reported to the school administration. She has no legal right to bring her animal unless she provides the documentation that her pet is a "SERVICE or COMPANION" animal. He can ask her proof regarding the pet, just not ask her about what her disability is. It is however her burden of proof to provide the info for the pet anyways, if it was legitimate she would know this. HAVE HIM ASK HER for the documentation for the pet. I would than suggest they provide written documentation of the incident to his supervisor.


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## Lin

GSD_Xander said:


> A family member I know works in the grocery store and (if I remember correctly) they're allowed *(probably per company policy)* to go up and ask the person with the animal if it is a service animal. I can't remember if they're allowed to ask for paperwork.


Federal law trumps any state laws, or "company policies." Federal law allows employees to ask if a dog is a service dog, and if so what specific tasks they do to mitigate the owners disability. They cannot ask for any paperwork/certification, ID, etc. Tell your family member under the ADA reformation act service animal is defined as a DOG that is trained. No other species of animals qualify. This thread is a great resource for questions about service dogs in businesses http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...63-doj-commonly-asked-questions-business.html



zeus von entringer staal said:


> There is an "ESA" pet i.e. emotional support animal


Yes, and ESA's have no public access rights. They ONLY have housing rights and airplane rights. If someone has an ESA, they can have their Dr write a letter on how the animal is part of their treatment plan and request housing accommodation in otherwise pet free housing.



zeus von entringer staal said:


> and here in California we have "companion" animals as well. The "companion" animal owner now is under ADA protection as well like genuine "service" animals. I am not a legal expert but have had to sit through a legal presentation in California explain all this relating to real estate and tenant / landlord laws for my Real Estate company.


Companion animals do not have public access rights either (and aren't restricted to CA.) The full name is "skilled companion dog" and is an animal that performs service tasks for their disabled owner in the home setting, with no public access. Only housing, thats why they were mentioned in the presentation.


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## zeus von entringer staal

Tried to edit above message but too late..
*disclaimer this is just CA law regarding recent changes in "companion" animal status. We are very liberal / open minded out here ..i.e. "medical use" pot clubs found throughout our city  and yes you will find lil old lady's with "companion" animals in most malls, diners, or groceries stores. at least out here  They are allowed in public here...who would wanna bug them anyways


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## Lin

zeus von entringer staal said:


> She has no legal right to bring her animal *unless she provides the documentation* that her pet is a "SERVICE or COMPANION" animal. *He can ask her proof regarding the pet, just not ask her about what her disability is. *It is however her burden of proof to provide the info for the pet anyways, if it was legitimate she would know this. *HAVE HIM ASK HER for the documentation for the pet. * I would than suggest they provide written documentation of the incident to his supervisor.


NO. No no no no no! PLEASE do not give out advice when you are not familiar with the law. You can NOT ask for documentation. You can NOT ask for certifications, paperwork, service dog IDs, etc. If any of this is provided, it was voluntarily. Under federal law wih the ADA act under the DOJ you can NOT ask for documentation/paperwork/certification to prove a dogs status as a SD. 

And as I mentioned in my previous post, skilled companion dogs have NO public access rights.

Edit: by definition a skilled companion dog is one that has no public access rights and only performs in the home. If this is different in your state, please provide some links to legal information because I cannot find anything. But they do NOT have public access rights under the ADA.


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## zeus von entringer staal

Well I guess in Cali we are different, Myself as well as many of my peers get this documentation all the time from pet owners, and our attorneys back us. I wont argue with the guy above, I am not an attorney, only have worked with them out here regarding our law. I am not MR. Know it all type , so I guess believe what you want or have them consultant legal counsel as I do regarding these matters. ha doubt the other guy is an attorney also. funny how people wanna "WIN"


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## Lin

If you're referring to me as the poster above you, I'm a woman. And the problem isn't that you're not a lawyer, but that you're not familiar with the laws surrounding service dogs. As a service dog handler, I made it a priority to familiarize myself with them. If your attorneys are advising that people ask for documentation, they are advising against the law. Because federal law trumps state law every time, and according to the ADA you cannot ask for documentation. If you'd like to know more the stickies in this section have a lot of info, as well as these sites

Frequently Asked Questions | Service Dog Central
Commonly Asked Questions About Service Animals in Places of Business
International Association of Assistance Dog Partners


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## zeus von entringer staal

Your word / law search skills on Google are amazing! Anyhow you do not live in our state "federal law trumps ever time" (nice Google plagiarizing) Well us wild west ca type always push that kinda thing with the feds - pot clubs and all 
(use your Google again)! Thanks for all the links so I can become the expert ya seem to be. Ill forward them on to our counsel as well, I am sure they will appreciate it. Just trying to read all your copy n paste stuff ya linked...and wrote..you must be on 2 pots of coffee and sum redbull. WINNER LIN! (raises hands)


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## Jessiewessie99

zeus von entringer staal said:


> Your word / law search skills on Google are amazing! Anyhow you do not live in our state "federal law trumps ever time" (nice Google plagiarizing) Well us wild west ca type always push that kinda thing with the feds - pot clubs and all
> (use your Google again)! Thanks for all the links so I can become the expert ya seem to be. Ill forward them on to our counsel as well, I am sure they will appreciate it. Just trying to read all your copy n paste stuff ya linked...and wrote..you must be on 2 pots of coffee and sum redbull. WINNER LIN! (raises hands)


I really don't think thats how it is in California.


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## Jessiewessie99

No companion dogs are not allowed in stores(Unless its Petco, or Petsmart or anything like that). I have asked. Also many people on this board know what they are talking about when it comes to service dogs.

I personally think the lady was lying, and leaving the poop in the classroom and let the dog drag its leash through it is just disgusting. The service animals I have seen at my college have vests on. I have seen a blind lady walking her Lab and another walking her Golden(both perfect little angels, its like they aren't there.) Another guy has a little fluffy dog mix, I am not sure what his disability is(he is not blind) the dog has a vest on, but I don't know his story and he is not in any of my classes(If he was I would ask). But otherwise the only service dogs I have seen are with people actually have disabilities, and they dogs are very well behaved.

I am curious do organizations that train service dogs give the owner to have the dog wear?


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## Jessiewessie99

zeus von entringer staal said:


> Tried to edit above message but too late..
> *disclaimer this is just CA law regarding recent changes in "companion" animal status. We are very liberal / open minded out here ..i.e. "medical use" pot clubs found throughout our city  and yes you will find lil old lady's with "companion" animals in most malls, diners, or groceries stores. at least out here  They are allowed in public here...who would wanna bug them anyways


No, companion animals are NOT allowed in stores here in California, unless they are service dogs. The only public places that dogs are allowed are Petco, Petsmart(or any other stores like that.) and places such as restaurants, good example Lazy Dog Cafe, dogs are only allowed OUTSIDE. They are not allowed in malls, groceries stores, or malls unless they are service dogs. The only dogs I have seen that are allowed are those that are owned by blind people(those are the only people I see with SDs).


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## zeus von entringer staal

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I really don't think thats how it is in California.


yes it is !??? 
, I meant that to be taken SUPER SERIOUS...

sarcasm not allowed got it!
Everything I said was incorrect, I am wrong.


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## Jessiewessie99

zeus von entringer staal said:


> yes it is !???
> , I meant that to be taken SUPER SERIOUS...
> 
> sarcasm not allowed got it!
> Everything I said was incorrect, I am wrong.


No it isn't. Please don't go around stating stuff you don't know

You can be sarcastic, and thats not why I quoted you. No need to be snarky or rude to someone who knows about service dogs. Hopefully more people who are more in the know about SDs will chime in.


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## SchDDR

Whether or not the dog is legitimately a service dog is almost moot based on the circumstance the OP presents.

If a dog is defecating in a public venue, even if the dog is legit, the professor can still bar the dog from the class. Any time the service animal poses a DIRECT threat to the health and safety of others, their public access rights are essentially void.

Defecating in the classroom meets that standard.

My advice to the professor would be to contact the Disabilities Services Department on campus. They have one, and if the student is disabled, they should be familiar with her case. The professor can explain that he is going to have to restrict the dog from entering the classroom because the dog has been disruptive and poses a health risk through it's defecation. He can then further ask how he can accommodate the student's needs in the absence of the dog, and ask them to serve as a mediator between him and the student to reach those goals.


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## middleofnowhere

SchDDR - Thanks! My advise was going to be - contact the campus attorney - this answer was much better.


So far as Federal Law trumping state law -- not always. There are instances where states can be more restrictive than feds. The states cannot be more liberal than the feds. For instance, if the feds restict garbage dumping within 3 feet of a stream, then the state cannot say that people can dump garbage within 1 foot of a stream.
However, the state CAN say that people cannot dump within 5 feet of a stream.


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## Lin

zeus von entringer staal said:


> Your word / law search skills on Google are amazing! Anyhow you do not live in our state "federal law trumps ever time" (nice Google plagiarizing) Well us wild west ca type always push that kinda thing with the feds - pot clubs and all
> (use your Google again)! Thanks for all the links so I can become the expert ya seem to be. Ill forward them on to our counsel as well, I am sure they will appreciate it. Just trying to read all your copy n paste stuff ya linked...and wrote..you must be on 2 pots of coffee and sum redbull. WINNER LIN! (raises hands)


There is no need to be rude. I didn't realize "federal law trumps every time" was a known quote, I was just making a statement. 

Yes, google is an excellent resource. I used it thoroughly before I ventured into the world of service dogs. How lucky we are to have that at our fingertips, without the internet there would have been a lot more work involved for me to track down both federal and state laws surrounding service dogs. I'm sure your counsel will appreciate the service dogs central website, its an excellent and concise reference.


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## SchDDR

middleofnowhere said:


> SchDDR - Thanks! My advise was going to be - contact the campus attorney - this answer was much better.
> 
> 
> So far as Federal Law trumping state law -- not always. There are instances where states can be more restrictive than feds. The states cannot be more liberal than the feds. For instance, if the feds restict garbage dumping within 3 feet of a stream, then the state cannot say that people can dump garbage within 1 foot of a stream.
> However, the state CAN say that people cannot dump within 5 feet of a stream.


Yep. States can add to the law, but they can't take away from it.


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## Lin

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I am curious do organizations that train service dogs give the owner to have the dog wear?


It depends on the organization. Many do send the dog home with a vest from the organization, that bears embroidery with the name. Paws with a cause would be an example of this.










But what the dog wears can also depend on what type of SD they are. Some dogs wear basic vests, some have guiding harnesses, mobility harnesses, vests with pockets, saddlebags instead of vest, saddlebags over harness... My dog wears a mobility harness, and saddle bags over it.


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## Jessiewessie99

Lin said:


> It depends on the organization. Many do send the dog home with a vest from the organization, that bears embroidery with the name. Paws with a cause would be an example of this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what the dog wears can also depend on what type of SD they are. Some dogs wear basic vests, some have guiding harnesses, mobility harnesses, vests with pockets, saddlebags instead of vest, saddlebags over harness... My dog wears a mobility harness, and saddle bags over it.



Yes that is something similar to the guide dog's vests I have seen. The little dog had a blue and yellow one. I have seen and heard about people using service dogs if they have epilepsy.


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## Lin

Yep! There are both seizure response dogs, and seizure alert dogs. Though most say seizure alert is something the dog can or cannot do, its not something that can be trained into the dog the way some of the other alerts can such as diabetic alert (which alerts for both high and low blood sugar.)

But then again, being a service dog in general is something the dog does or does not have  Not just any dog can be trained to be a SD. Many failed SDITs end up being skilled companion dogs, because they can be very helpful but just aren't cut out for public access work.


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## Jessiewessie99

When I had seizures my parents were thinking about getting me a dog that does that, but I don't have epilepsy.

I agree many dogs are just not cut out to be service dogs. I didn't know they had dogs fro diabetics! Thats interesting.


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## SchDDR

Until we know exactly *what* the dogs that detect seizures and blood sugar changes, we can't train a dog to detect it.

We can only train the dogs who naturally detect it, to alert *when* they detect it.


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## Lin

SchDDR said:


> Until we know exactly *what* the dogs that detect seizures and blood sugar changes, we can't train a dog to detect it.
> 
> We can only train the dogs who naturally detect it, to alert *when* they detect it.


In diabetic alert dogs they're scent trained. There is a specific scent both in low and high blood sugar.


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## Jessiewessie99

Its still amazing to know they can detect such things and how they learn to detect it.


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## Lin

Yea it is 

There are SDs for a wide range of disabilities. One thing to remember though is you can only qualify for a service dog if you are legally disabled, not just medically disabled. The health problem has to substantially limit at least one major life activity. So just have seizures or diabetes doesn't mean you can get a dog. For many people these conditions can be managed with medication.


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## SchDDR

Lin said:


> In diabetic alert dogs they're scent trained. There is a specific scent both in low and high blood sugar.


The assumption is that epilepsy is the same, but I don't think they've narrowed down what the scent is that they're responding to.
I didn't know they'd actually identified the scent in diabetes. That's pretty awesome. 

Are the training aids publicly available for purchase?

Be awesome if they could do the same for panic attacks. Would really make my day.


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## Jessiewessie99

Yep. My seizures were managed with medication, yet they were caused by my hormones going all out of whack. Its sad that people abuse the use of Service dogs. I am always happy to see a service dog and love how well behaved they are. My campus has bunnies all over the place(not inside). I always compliment the person on how well behaved their dog is.

I wonder how they do get a dog to detect seizures if someone were to need to a dog for that.


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## Lin

I'm not sure about any training aids, but I know some people that trained their own service dogs that used samples from themselves such as sweat. 

There are psychiatric service dogs! I don't think you would ever be able to find something to alert before a panic attack, and I'm not sure what you would do even if you were alerted lol other than take anxiety meds. But I can't see finding something to train a dog to alert to where they know before you do. But they can help in other ways. Such as performing tasks to ground you in reality, pawing or licking. Retrieve the medication for you, bark or do something else so you can use the dog as an excuse to leave a provoking situation...


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## Jessiewessie99

I heard about psychiatric service dogs as well. Don't know much about them, just I have heard about them.


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## SchDDR

Reacting to a panic attack is a nice trained task, but man, preemption would be a blessing.

The earlier you respond to anxiety, the easier it is. Lower doses of meds, and sometimes, no meds at all if you realize it early enough.

Dog detection would be awesome.


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## Lin

The fast acting meds never work for me, so it doesn't make that much of a difference in my case! My panic attacks come on suddenly, so thats why I couldn't see anything as being a sign for the dog before it starts.


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## CassandGunnar

Lin said:


> In diabetic alert dogs they're scent trained. There is a specific scent both in low and high blood sugar.


Several years ago, before my kidney/pancreas transplant, when I was on dialysis, my blood glucose would bottom out and I would "pass out". Low blood suger is a critical, immediate medical emergency and people can die in a matter of minutes if it is not corrected. High blood sugar is not an immediate danger/critical because it can take days to get to the point where permanent damge is done. (I know diabetics who have had glucose readings in the 400-500 range for days at a time)

When we still had Rocky, I had two instances where I went really low and an ambulance had to be called and I had to be taken to the hospital.
After the second time it happened, when I'd start to get low, he would sit in front of me and bark until I got up and took care of the problem.
We wanted to have him assessed as a SD, but because of his seizure problems we couldn't have found anyone to do if for us.

When my glucose went so low the 2nd time, I actually fought with the fire department and local PD officers that responded. (It happens a lot with low glucose) and good old Rocky just laid in the hallway and never made a sound. Don't know how he knew, but he did.

Anyone who trains SD's had my admiration and respect. They are amazing people. (and the dogs ain't bad either :laugh


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## Stevenzachsmom

Lin, I just want to say how much I appreciate you taking the time to explain service dogs, rules and laws. I know you have done this over and over to help educate people like me and give us a better understanding. You are an excellent resource.

Thank you,
Jan


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## Xeph

> There are psychiatric service dogs! I don't think you would ever be able to find something to alert before a panic attack


Lin, I actually DO have a "tell" before I have an anxiety attack. I start rubbing my sternum with my knuckles.


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## GSDElsa

A dog can alert to panic attack...also can help...dog can be trained to encourage handler to get on ground and the dog can lay across handler. Studies have shown this action by dogs can end a panic attack


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## ILGHAUS

State vrs Fed. law

Fed. does not always trump State. Easy way to remember is that the law that gives the most benefit to the PWD is the law that prevails. BUT... if someone is claiming additional rights under State Law then they must follow that State's requirements.

If claiming additional rights under State Law and that particular state requires a dog to be wearing an orange harness and have ID then the dog must be wearing an orange harness and have ID. (This is a long reach example - see below for extra benefits for SDIT.) A handler can not pick parts from one law but not follow its requirements and then fall back on the other. 

State laws only pertain to that one particular state so if traveling any additional benefits offered by your home state would be lost when crossing state lines. 

There are very few cases where someone receives more benefits under State law and in normal circumstances it is to the handler's benefit to stay under ADA/DOJ regs for Title III Public Access Rights. 

One main benefit is in dealing with SDITs in those state which allow a SDIT to go with its trainer into no-pet situations. But in those states, the trainer or handler must follow the state guidelines on SDITs. If the state says only certified trainers from a recognized training facility then only the trainer can take the SDIT into such a location and only while actively training. 

CA is one state that gives some added benefits to certain Therapy Dogs and ESAs but I always have to recheck. I believe they even have a couple of counties that have a SD law. Easiest way to know for certain is to contact the AG office in each state to know what the most current state law is. 

As to the one poster questioning peoples' knowledge in this thread. We have several very knowledgable people who have posted in this thread. Opinions may vary. I often do not fully agree with what is posted but some of that is based on my personal opinion and how I read a particular piece of a law.


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## Chicagocanine

Actually there are dogs that respond to the early stages of a panic attack. This may not be alerting before the attack, but rather noticing early signs and letting the handler know before they are aware of the attack or before it is full-blown.

There are also other tasks a psychiatric service dog can do to help with panic disorders, you can find some listed here:
http://www.iaadp.org/psd_tasks.html


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## Lin

I really like this site as a resource on PSDs Psychiatric Service Dog Society (though some of the tasks listed are not considered trainable service tasks, the things that any dog could do)


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## kiwilrdg

I think the environmental sensitiviy could be to alert to help the handler avoid sensitivity to chemicals that could trigger allergies. I have heard about people who have had dogs trained to steer them away from any peanuts. 

I do not know the legal status of such dogs.


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## ChaplainMal

Greydusk said:


> I have a friend who is a biology professor at a *local community college*. A girl recently enrolled in his class and brings her service dog with here. The dog is an “environmental sensitivity dog” I have no idea what that is, but apparently he dog seemed well enough behaved until a few days ago when it pooped in the classroom and then dragged its leash through the poop, and throughout the classroom. The professor, who was irritated with the entire situation left the classroom. The girl and dog left soon after without cleaning up the mess (the professor ended up having to clean it himself).
> He wants to know if there is any way to get documentation proving it’s a service dog without violating ADA? Really, I believe he would prefer if the dog was not allowed back in the classroom, but I’m not sure that’s possible.



This is actually a lot easier than this whole thread makes it seem. The scenario is a college setting. When a student has a disability, they are supposed to identify themselves to a designated administrative person, appropriate accommodations are then figured out and a letter is written. This letter of accommodation does not identify the disability but does list required accommodations including the presence of a service animal. Per the college's policy THIS LETTER can be requested from the student and it would not violate ADA. Have the teacher look in the handbook for his school's procedure


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## JustJim

ChaplainMal said:


> When a student has a disability, they are supposed to identify themselves to a designated administrative person, appropriate accommodations are then figured out and a letter is written.


Actually, no. In publicly-funded institutions, students with disabilities are only required to identify to the designated office if they are seeking accommodations (which at the post-secondary level are most often academic accommodations). Students with disabilities are not required to seek academic accommodations. 

Whether or not having a service dog present is an "accommodation" can be argued both ways, depending on circumstances. Quick examples:

If a student is receiving academic accommodations, the service dog will typically be written into the accommodations: a student with a visual impairment and using a guide dog may have it written in that the student should have an assigned seat, making it easier for the student/dog team to get there at the start of class, or after any out-of-seat activities. 

On the other hand, a student with a mobility dog may not need any accommodations in an otherwise accessible classroom.


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## PhoenixFiresky

*Just a minute...*



Greydusk said:


> dog seemed well enough behaved until a few days ago when it pooped in the classroom and then dragged its leash through the poop, and throughout the classroom


I realize that this is an old thread, but I just wanted to point something out. In order for the dog to create a mess of the magnitude that the OP implied, the dog would have almost HAD to be experiencing diarrhea in the classroom rather than normal elimination. Solid mess, even with a leash dragged through it, wouldn't usually make *that* much mess on the floor and certainly wouldn't reach "throughout the classroom". It is my understanding that even a well-trained, legitimate service dog could possibly experience an accident if s/he were ill. After all, the OP said that the dog had been well-behaved until this incident.

The owner's lack of responsibility by not cleaning the mess up was significant. On the other hand, we are dealing with a college student, here. Possibly she assumed that the cleaning staff would take care of it. (Not reasonable, but well within college-level logic.) Possibly she had another class immediately afterwards, run by a professor who absolutely would not tolerate lateness. Possibly (most likely) she was so totally embarrassed/humiliated that she basically just ran away from the situation. Any professor will tell you that their students are not known for their emotional maturity - and that *would* be a socially sticky situation, even for a grown adult to navigate. 

Speaking as someone who is in grad school to BE a professor, I feel it may be inappropriate that the prof's first response was to use this to ban the dog. (I'd guess that an "environmental" dog would alert to allergens, such as peanuts, in the area.) It sounds to me as though the professor hadn't wanted the dog in the class in the first place, and this incident provided a handy excuse for exercising his personal prejudices. While I understand that the girl's behavior is unacceptable, as is her dog's, I think that the professional way for her teacher to handle it would've been to discuss the matter with the girl, to ascertain the reason she failed to clean up after her dog. If the girl has an understandable reason for failing to clean up, then she should be scolded - but banning an otherwise well-behaved dog from the classroom is probably not necessary, provided the problem isn't repeated. If the matter can't be resolved that way, Disability Services can be contacted - but in my opinion, the girl is likely to have dropped the class out of sheer embarrassment anyway.


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## Lin

PhoenixFiresky said:


> It is my understanding that even a well-trained, legitimate service dog could possibly experience an accident if s/he were ill. After all, the OP said that the dog had been well-behaved until this incident.


Yes, but how did the dog get the mess all over the room? Was the dog being allowed to roam freely? Because that is not acceptable behavior for a service dog.



> The owner's lack of responsibility by not cleaning the mess up was significant. On the other hand, we are dealing with a college student, here. Possibly she assumed that the cleaning staff would take care of it. (Not reasonable, but well within college-level logic.) Possibly she had another class immediately afterwards, run by a professor who absolutely would not tolerate lateness. Possibly (most likely) she was so totally embarrassed/humiliated that she basically just ran away from the situation. Any professor will tell you that their students are not known for their emotional maturity - and that *would* be a socially sticky situation, even for a grown adult to navigate.


I don't see a way to have run away from the situation, but have gotten a mess all over the room. If the student was that embarrassed by it she would have left the class immediately, not stuck around long enough for the dog to drag a leash through the mess and then distribute it around the room.

Legitimate SD or no, eliminating inside is a reasons to remove the dog from the situation. But to disallow the dog to return is a different situation that isn't addressed in the AFAIK. 

Having a service dog in public is a big responsibility. Its possible the dog was a psychiatric service dog and she made up the environmental part due to shame. Its possible this situation affected her so deeply she avoided having to deal with it. However, to be allowed to continue to bring the dog to class she would HAVE to deal with it. So I would be right there with the professor if the issue was no dog allowed until the cause of the incident determined, and how to handle it if it happens again. 

Its also the handlers responsibility to know the law, which includes both their rights AND the rights of the public places they are accessing. If the handler doesn't, well IMO they shouldn't return into public until they are more prepared. 

I'd really like to hear how this story turned out though, if the OP can let us know.


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## Xeph

When I first started using Strauss, we were doing a bit of flying. During one of our flight days, Strauss wasn't feeling so great. I took him outside over and over and over again at the airport (which meant going through security MULTIPLE times), because I was trying to make sure he didn't have any accidents inside.

Most unfortunately, try though I did, he still got sick in the airport. Luckily, it was confined to one area. There was a janitor nearby that offered to clean it, and I said no.

I moved Strauss away, put him in a down, and cleaned up the mess myself, and then had the janitor go over it with a mop (only so much I can do with window cleaner and industrial paper towels).

I was absolutely TERRIFIED of what would happen next, because I was still so new to using an SD, and didn't know if they'd even let us fly.

A couple airport employees walked up to me, offered to help me with my things, and told me "It's ok. Sometimes dogs just get sick. Nothing to worry about."

Honestly, they were probably so kind because a) I was borderline having a panic attack, and b) even though I was having a small freakout, I still made SURE to clean up after my dog.

That is the ONLY time he has ever gone #2 in a public place, and only because he was ill...and I cleaned up after him.

He biled in a Home Depot a few weeks back....I tried to get him outside, but because their stupid doors only allow entry/exit in ONE direction, I couldn't get out. The exit was ALL the way at the other side of the store, and there was no way to make it, and I didn't want him trailing bile everywhere.

I made sure to keep him out of the way of foot traffic, asked for paper towels ASAP, cleaned it up, threw it away, and told somebody IMMEDIATELY that a mop needed to go over that spot.

In the almost 4 years Strauss has been in service, those are the only two incidents he's had, and I made SURE to clean them up the best I could, and notify somebody else so they could sanitize the area.


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## Liesje

I work for a small college and right now we have two SDs on campus. One is a leader/blind assistance type dog an another is a PSD. I have seen the first dog many, many times. The owner has had some issues with her computer (I work in IT). Her dog is VERY well behaved. It wears a leather harness with a handle b/c it leads her, but when we are working with her we help her to a seat and her dog lies at her feet and does not move. The first time she came in, I overheard her explaining her disability (she is very open about it) and wondered if she would benefit from having a service dog. Her dog was so well behaved I had no idea that he was right there! 

Anyway, we have had issues with providing the right technology assistance to this person. We are doing our best but this is a unique situation. She has a computer that reads to her and the reader has not interfaced well with the software that some of the professors require their students to use. Not quite the same issue as the OP, but what we have done is to contact our college's Student Academic Services dept. They are the dept that handles the ADA concerns and special needs for students with disabilities or learning problems. We want to do everything right but WE are not trained in what the school is required to provide under ADA or what her special needs are so we call SAS and they assist us. I'm assuming that any college would have a similar dept/team of people? If the professor has legitimate concerns about the dog in the classroom I would recommend he contact these people in whatever department is his college's equivalent. IMO he shouldn't have to deal with it himself or put himself in a place where he has to ask awkward questions or not know what he can ask. There are people whose job it is to know ADA and probably already have a relationship with this student and are aware of her needs.


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## PhoenixFiresky

I understand that the owner's behavior was totally unacceptable. On the other hand, I think it's important to realize that there may have been some extenuating circumstances AND that the handler basically is still a kid. An older kid, true, but in my experience with my kids and with the 20-something kids I go to classes with, they are still prone to lapses in judgment - most particularly when social situations get the better of them. I've seen "normal" college girls get completely hysterical in the ladies room, because their jeans ripped. These kids are learning how to be adults - they are not fully adult yet - if you have no kids, ask anyone whose kid is a 20-something, and they'll tell you. Their brains literally have not quit developing yet, and because of this they are prone to lapses in judgment. 

The fact that this is a biology class and that the dog was roaming loose indicate two possiblities to me. First, it might've been a lab class, and in that case the handler would be moving about the room focusing on the experiments she'd been assigned. She may have instructed the dog to move with her, and not noticed that it had had an accident until later. Secondly, if the dog was an allergen detection dog it is possible that it was moving freely in order to ensure that the areas she entered were safe. Some people with severe peanut allergies can have strong reactions even with miniscule amounts of peanut in the area, and I believe those dogs are taught to search the rooms when the handler enters. And again, to create such a mess, I would think the dog would've had to have diarrhea. (Unless the mess was somewhat exaggerated in the OP - he was, after all, only going off what had been told to him by the professor in question.) Even diarrhea all over a leash would dry after a few minutes to where it would no longer rub off - it is very hard for me to imagine how the situation could've happened exactly as described. I've had dogs all my life, and it just doesn't quite make sense.

I find it exceedingly odd that the professor in charge would simply leave the classroom, rather than addressing the issue with the student. That is not behavior one would expect of a professor in such a situation, "disgusted" or not. None of mine would do that. My guess would be that the professor is an adjunct, rather than faculty, and may be accustomed to teaching in the public school system, so doesn't know where to go to deal with such issues on campus. 

I'm certainly not saying that the student was right - just that there are some things about this story that make me think that we're hearing a very biased version.


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## Lin

Liesje said:


> The first time she came in, I overheard her explaining her disability (she is very open about it) and wondered if she would benefit from having a service dog. Her dog was so well behaved I had no idea that he was right there!


Now THATS a service dog  They are supposed to be unobstrusive. And I believe that the far majority of the disabled prefer it that way, when someone is making a big production I can't help but wonder if they're fakers. Most people just want to get on with things and have the dog ignored. 

That said... Sometimes I can't help but find it amusing when people jump after suddenly realizing I have a service dog. A few months back I went to a karaoke bar with the guy I'm dating. We were meeting some of his friends, but happened to get there first and picked a table up against the wall. So Tessa was in a down behind my chair against the wall. We were there about 3 hours or so, when Tessa half sat up to change the position she was laying in. One of his friends nearly screamed and jumped backwards, I was laughing so hard I couldn't breathe... Good thing the place was too noisy to hear the commotion. She wasn't scared of the dog at all, but was so shocked at not knowing it was there.


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## Xeph

I've had that happen Lin! We were at a Texas Roadhouse, and Mouse was asleep under the table. A waitress dropped something, bent over to pick it up, and all of a sudden I hear *GASP!!!!* and she shot straight up!

"I didn't know there was a dog here!"

Strauss never even opened his eyes xD

Quite frequently when we leave a restaurant, many of the staff comment "I didn't even know a dog was in here!"

My response? "Thank you for the compliment."


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