# 1 yr old male suddenly showing aggression



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

My puppy just turned 1 year old on valentine's day, and it's like a switch has gone off or something... he's suddenly reacting to things that have never bothered him before. 

Just this month there have been 3 separate incidents where he's barked and lunged at people in our house, people he's known for some time. The first time it was when one of my roommates was messing around, play fighting with us and he grabbed my arms, shoved me down on the couch and Eko barked and lunged at my roommate. My roommate backed up and the dog was fine. The next time was when my roommate's girlfriend slapped my roommate on the arm, he did the same thing as he had done before, barked, lunged, then was fine.

This last time was the most worrying to me, he's always been wonderful at greeting people at the door, but just a few days ago my boyfriend's cousin and his girlfriend, who the dog already knows and has had no problems with before, knocked at the door and Eko started barking furiously. He NEVER, not one time, has EVER barked more than once when someone knocks at the door. And when I opened the door, he kept barking, it took all I had to drag him away from the door and hold on to him. She asked if petting him would calm him down and I told her not to try and touch him right now just in case he did try to bite her.

Nothing's happened since then, and I DO want him to be protective of us and the house but only when it is needed. :help:


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

You need to make it clear to him that YOU decide when he needs to be protective. He needs to know the difference between playing and an actual threat. If you're not already, get involved with a trainer who likes and knows GSDs and can help "harness" this behavior so its done appopriately. He's issuing a warning that from the sounds of things is not necessary but he feels it is. The people he cares about are in danger as he views it. Sounds like he's thinking he needs to take charge because nobody else did... Hopefully others will chime in soon. 

How has his behavior been up to this point? How's his socialization? Training?


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

He's been very well socialized with people, we have people coming over all the time so he is very used to it. We allow him to bark once when there is a knock at the door, then we say "enough", and he is quiet. He does try to stick his head out of the door before it's fully open, we are still working on that. But once they are inside he's all over them, rubbing on their legs and giving kisses. Very friendly to people on the walk as well, always approachable, loves to be pet.

That's what's so crazy about it, he's always been so friendly to everyone and everything, so this behavior shocked everyone. We have never seen it from him until now. He has had basic training, he knows sit, down, stay, come, leave it, shake, the basics and a few tricks. With dogs we haven't been able to socialize him as much as we wanted but he was raised with a dog for the first 6 months and has been friendly to the few dogs he's met since then. 

He's not very good with cats, he chases them and snaps at them if they get near his food when he's eating. But any person could stick their hand in his bowl while he eats and he will stop eating and sit.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> He's been very well socialized with people, we have people coming over all the time so he is very used to it. We allow him to bark once when there is a knock at the door, then we say "enough", and he is quiet. He does try to stick his head out of the door before it's fully open, we are still working on that. But once they are inside he's all over them, rubbing on their legs and giving kisses. Very friendly to people on the walk as well, always approachable, loves to be pet.
> 
> That's what's so crazy about it, he's always been so friendly to everyone and everything, so this behavior shocked everyone. We have never seen it from him until now. He has had basic training, he knows sit, down, stay, come, leave it, shake, the basics and a few tricks. With dogs we haven't been able to socialize him as much as we wanted but he was raised with a dog for the first 6 months and has been friendly to the few dogs he's met since then.
> 
> He's not very good with cats, he chases them and snaps at them if they get near his food when he's eating. But any person could stick their hand in his bowl while he eats and he will stop eating and sit.


 
one thing I would suggest is teaching him a place command and enforcing a stay on it. It will help with the poking the head out the door too. Beyond that, without witnessing the behavior, I really don't feel comfortable recommending much else beyond the place command and stepping up obedience in all situations. I'll check back later and see if anyone else has responded. Like i said earlier, it sounds to me like he suddenly thinks he needs to warn in all situations whether appropriate or not. This needs to be corrected obviously.


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## Mick_21 (Feb 18, 2013)

My male shepherd did not show any signs of aggression or protectiveness until about 12 months as well. After a little while he will learn to differ between a threat and company but he will still bark when someone knocks on the door. I don't think you have any problems unless when you say enough and he doesn't listen and is aggressive towards people you let in. Then you should seek professional advice. When my girlfriend first started coming over my male would separate us if she got to close not with aggression but mainly jealousy, now they cuddle up on the couch. I think when your dog lunged he may have wanted to play as well...but there is a possibility that he was scared for you and felt the need to protect you. As he gets a little bit older he will stop doing this. When you let someone in you should let them pet him as he will like it and will soon realise that your friends are okay, but i doubt he would let them in if you are not there.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Stop the wrestling around your dog, it is confusing him. Work on your control with him especially around the door behavior. The door does not get opened until he is calm for the sake of your guests. I'm sure they won't mind waiting a bit until you get him under control.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

So... This morning, not 10 minutes ago as I was feeding him breakfast I put my hand over his bowl like I have before while training him, but he showed teeth at me and growled. I immediately said NO bad dog and made him sit while I picked up the food bowl. When I gave it back to him I put my hand down again and everything was fine. He's laying on my lap right now being the sweet puppy he normally is like nothing happened. I will speak to my roommates about not wrestling with him anymore because something needs to be done before this gets any worse...


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Why do people feel the need to CONSTANTLY mess with their dogs food. 

How would you like it if someone was putting their hand over your food, take the plate away and then reach onto your plate to pick up your food and then put it back in front of you, everytime you get a meal. 

Just leave the dog and the food alone!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

gsdraven said:


> Stop the wrestling around your dog, it is confusing him. Work on your control with him especially around the door behavior. The door does not get opened until he is calm for the sake of your guests. I'm sure they won't mind waiting a bit until you get him under control.


This.
He is a dog, not a robot.
It sounds like he kind of just lives there as a community pet with no active training really, and that's going to have to change.
And yes...stop messing with his food. You will create problems by doing that.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

gsdraven said:


> Stop the wrestling around your dog, it is confusing him. Work on your control with him especially around the door behavior. The door does not get opened until he is calm for the sake of your guests. I'm sure they won't mind waiting a bit until you get him under control.


One easy way to do that is to teach him crate games initially. Makes it much easier to get that kind of self control.


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## Abby142 (Oct 16, 2012)

Mrs.K said:


> Why do people feel the need to CONSTANTLY mess with their dogs food.
> 
> How would you like it if someone was putting their hand over your food, take the plate away and then reach onto your plate to pick up your food and then put it back in front of you, everytime you get a meal.
> 
> Just leave the dog and the food alone!


I have to disagree with you on that. I want my dog to be totally fine if I take her food away. Ever since we have brought her home I have petted her, taken her bowl away and given it back while she was eating. 

Growing up my grandmother had a dog that way crazy food protective. When I was about 8 yrs old I walked behind the dog while it was eating, I didn't touch it, I didn't talk to it, all I did was walk behind it, and it turned and charged at me teeth bared and snarling. I will not have dog that acts like that! I don't do it to be mean, or anything like that. I just want to make sure that she never turns into my grandma's dog. I don't do it every time she eats, just sometimes, and she is always heavily praised and rewarded when she behaves. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Just my opinion.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Taking the food can indeed make a dog food aggressive, even in a pet that's okay with you being around the food.

It's backwards - you need to be the giver, not the taker. 

People mean well, but it's rather like flipping puppies on their back (that you just met). It's misguided "training" at best, and can cause big problems and increased aggression, at worst.

There was a lot of work that went into this puppy's training but the bottom line is, instead of trying to TAKE the bowl, when you approach the bowl, it's only to give some tasty jerky or other "high value" treat by tossing it into the bowl. That way the dog enjoys seeing you approach the bowl.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

To the OP

Just my opinion...but it makes much more sense to me to attach a positive to your hand coming at the bowl then a negative. It seems to me that if you drop a high value treat into the bowl while they are eating rather than constantly take the bowl away then they view you being near the bowl as a good thing. Then if you have to take something away, they don't already feel the need to guard it from you.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Another example...


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Abby142 said:


> I have to disagree with you on that. I want my dog to be totally fine if I take her food away. Ever since we have brought her home I have petted her, taken her bowl away and given it back while she was eating.


Pretty much every case of food aggression I have dealt with the owners do some sort of messing with the dog's food and toys in order to prevent aggression.

By teaching the dog that their resources could be taken away at any time "just because" is a sure fire way to create guarding behavior. 

I don't mess with dogs' food. I don't act like it's a big deal to walk by them while eating or chewing on a raw bone. I can take RAW food out of every one of their mouths if I have to. 

If you want to prevent food aggression, like Michelle suggested, a much better option is to drop more food or high value treats in the bowl as you walking by so the dog learns that _really_ good things happen when anyone approaches their bowl.


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## Abby142 (Oct 16, 2012)

I guess I should have explained a bit better. I don't always take her food away, maybe once every other week. And when I do take it away I always add a high value treat to it (when I said I highly praise her that is what I meant, she loves treats!). I totally agree that just taking the food away for no reason at all is a bad idea, and I can see where that would cause problems, but that is not what I am doing. She knows that if I take her food away while she is eating it, it is because I am going to add something extra yummy to it. The first video that msvette2u posted where they keep reaching for the bowl and then when they hold the puppy away from the bowl on the leash look just short of cruel. I would never do that to Jade. I never yank the food away, or pry her mouth from the bowl, or hold her away from it by the collar. I walk up to her, ask her to sit, take the food, add the treat, put the food back, and let her eat it.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

But there's many folks who don't realize that, and they continue to make puppy food aggressive, and that's when euthanasia is suggested for this "horrible" hard core food guarder of merely 10 weeks of age 

We hand fed a FA puppy for the 1st 2-3 mos. we had her, she never guarded after that. But we don't give our dogs a reason to worry, either.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Abby142 said:


> I guess I should have explained a bit better. I don't always take her food away, maybe once every other week. And when I do take it away I always add a high value treat to it (when I said I highly praise her that is what I meant, she loves treats!). I totally agree that just taking the food away for no reason at all is a bad idea, and I can see where that would cause problems, but that is not what I am doing. She knows that if I take her food away while she is eating it, it is because I am going to add something extra yummy to it. The first video that msvette2u posted where they keep reaching for the bowl and then when they hold the puppy away from the bowl on the leash look just short of cruel. I would never do that to Jade. I never yank the food away, or pry her mouth from the bowl, or hold her away from it by the collar. I walk up to her, ask her to sit, take the food, add the treat, put the food back, and let her eat it.


Don't take it away. Leave the bowl where it is and then add high food value to it. 

Every dog that is coming into the house (foster or to be my own) I generally feed out of my hand at first. They don't even get their food in a bowl. I started doing that after I got a puppy that was actually food reactive/aggressive and resource guarding. I've never even seen a pup being that bad of a resource guarder. Next time, he didn't get food out of the bowl, he had to take it from my hand for at least two weeks and did clicker games.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Taking the food can indeed make a dog food aggressive, even in a pet that's okay with you being around the food.
> 
> It's backwards - you need to be the giver, not the taker.
> 
> ...



Msvette2U:

Amazing video.
I never thought a 10 week puppy could act this way.
The approach and the result was amazing.

Thanks for sharing.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

What people don't realize is that resource guarding is hard wired behavior. Puppies are born fighting for their food, because if they don't eat, they will die.
I've seen newborn infants nursing that will "scrap" with other puppies and fight for the nipple. Before their eyes are even opened.
Since it's hard wired behavior it's going to be difficult to "punish" it away, which is why a _paradigm shift_ is necessary - seeing yourself as the giver instead of taker. "I should be able to take away my dog's food", etc. sure, you "should" be able to, but you won't be able to by using old and outdated methods of doing so.

RG and FA are two major reasons dogs are given up and put in shelters - whenever you can, spread the word on the correct way to work with those issues.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> What people don't realize is that resource guarding is hard wired behavior. Puppies are born fighting for their food, because if they don't eat, they will die.
> I've seen newborn infants nursing that will "scrap" with other puppies and fight for the nipple. Before their eyes are even opened.
> Since it's hard wired behavior it's going to be difficult to "punish" it away, which is why a _paradigm shift_ is necessary - seeing yourself as the giver instead of taker. "I should be able to take away my dog's food", etc. sure, you "should" be able to, but you won't be able to by using old and outdated methods of doing so.
> 
> RG and FA are two major reasons dogs are given up and put in shelters - whenever you can, spread the word on the correct way to work with those issues.



Absolutely agree with you on that. The methods on that are so outdated and most of the time it's people themselves causing the issue in the first place without even realizing it.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

I would give anything for Jonas to want his food even a tad that much. One thing Ginger taught him was to be a picky eater  plus his heart medicine makes him not want to eat. Its like fighting a losing battle...... Great Video msvette2u!


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok so just so I understand I need to step up on his overall obedience, stop wrestling, make him sit and be calm before I open the door, and put a treat into his bowl instead of trying to take it away. I didn't know I was making his food problems worse he has never really shown any food aggression with people until today, I was trying to prevent it from happening.  But I suppose it makes sense that taking it away would make it worse, the cat food aggression started after the cat started eating his food while he had to sit and wait to eat, my back was turned and I didn't notice the cat doing that. I'll have to find a treat he likes though, he hates milkbones and most of the treats I've bought him so far.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> Ok so just so I understand I need to step up on his overall obedience, stop wrestling, make him sit and be calm before I open the door, and put a treat into his bowl instead of trying to take it away. I didn't know I was making his food problems worse he has never really shown any food aggression with people until today, I was trying to prevent it from happening.  But I suppose it makes sense that taking it away would make it worse, the cat food aggression started after the cat started eating his food while he had to sit and wait to eat, my back was turned and I didn't notice the cat doing that. I'll have to find a treat he likes though, he hates milkbones and most of the treats I've bought him so far.


 
yeah you shouldnt be taking food away from him without a good reason. As said previously, you should be adding tasty things to his meal while he's eating, even if you just put the tasty stuff near him, he'll see it as a good thing. As for the cat stealing his food, if you have a crate, feed your dog in the CLOSED crate so the cat cant get to it. 

as for finding a treat your boy will like, take him into a pet store and let him sniff the packages. He may very well pick something on his own that he likes. You can even add more kibble to his meals every now and again. Could try hamburger, raw chicken,etc.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

sounds like he was protecting you and the house.



Sarah~ said:


> My puppy just turned 1 year old on valentine's day, and it's like a switch has gone off or something... he's suddenly reacting to things that have never bothered him before.
> 
> Just this month there have been 3 separate incidents where he's barked and lunged at people in our house, people he's known for some time. The first time it was when one of my roommates was messing around, play fighting with us and he grabbed my arms, shoved me down on the couch and Eko barked and lunged at my roommate. My roommate backed up and the dog was fine. The next time was when my roommate's girlfriend slapped my roommate on the arm, he did the same thing as he had done before, barked, lunged, then was fine.
> 
> ...


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Bits of bacon, hotdogs, bits of cheese, anything tasty and unique


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

That's a good idea, I'll do that.  I also never thought of letting HIM pick out the treats before, lol.

And to doggiedad yes I think you're right that's why I wanted to ask for help because I would want him to react that way if it wasn't a friend pushing me like that, so I will take everyone's advice and just stop roughhousing altogether since Eko doesn't know we are just playing. I am glad to know he would react that way to someone being physical with me. He is doing the right things I am the one who needs to change the things I'm doing


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

your dog doesn't understand someone is your friend. don't
rough house in front of your dog.



Sarah~ said:


> That's a good idea, I'll do that.  I also never thought of letting HIM pick out the treats before, lol.
> 
> >>>>> And to doggiedad yes I think you're right that's why I wanted to ask for help because I would want him to react that way if it wasn't a friend pushing me like that, <<<<<
> 
> so I will take everyone's advice and just stop roughhousing altogether since Eko doesn't know we are just playing. I am glad to know he would react that way to someone being physical with me. He is doing the right things I am the one who needs to change the things I'm doing


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Milk bones aren't an "upgrade" enough from kibble and are really just kind of junk food anyway...he's smart to not like them!


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes I have already told my roommates not to do that anymore  and the funny thing about the milkbones was we were given a huge box of them after we bought Eko by a relative and we had to give them to someone else because he wouldn't touch them. It seems like he doesn't like hard dry treats he likes the soft ones. But his teeth are fine so I don't think its because it hurts his mouth I think its just his personal preference.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> Yes I have already told my roommates not to do that anymore  and the funny thing about the milkbones was we were given a huge box of them after we bought Eko by a relative and we had to give them to someone else because he wouldn't touch them. It seems like he doesn't like hard dry treats he likes the soft ones. But his teeth are fine so I don't think its because it hurts his mouth I think its just his personal preference.


 
You can try freeze dried liver treats, wellness brand treats, theres a brand called Train Me! training treats... the list is endless. If he likes peanut butter you can even add a spoonful of peanut butter to his meal. Cheese, hot dogs, raw chicken, boiled chicken, raw eggs, scrambled eggs.... goes on. 

Shasta has picked out several of her favorites just by sniffing more on the bag or box than others. Her favorites include wellness treats and the bacon flavored train me treats.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Thank you for giving me so many new options, I have been getting frustrated with his picky eating. We finally have found a dog food that he likes to eat with some canned food mixed in, but I haven't found a treat he really goes crazy for yet. I had better luck training him with bits of his kibble than anything else. He thinks peanut butter is ok, but he will only eat a little bit before he's tired of it. I haven't tried cheese, and he does like hot dogs but I was afraid to give him more than a piece or two because I wasn't sure how healthy it was for him. We were planning a trip to the pet store on Wednesday anyway so while we're there I'll let him sniff some treats.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> Thank you for giving me so many new options, I have been getting frustrated with his picky eating. We finally have found a dog food that he likes to eat with some canned food mixed in, but I haven't found a treat he really goes crazy for yet. I had better luck training him with bits of his kibble than anything else. He thinks peanut butter is ok, but he will only eat a little bit before he's tired of it. I haven't tried cheese, and he does like hot dogs but I was afraid to give him more than a piece or two because I wasn't sure how healthy it was for him. We were planning a trip to the pet store on Wednesday anyway so while we're there I'll let him sniff some treats.


 
let us know how it goes. I had a foster for a little while that was a picky eater. Getting her to eat anything was a difficult task. you can use hot dogs. Obviously you wouldn't want to use them as a meal on its own but as the occassional add in, shouldnt be a problem. A lot of people use them for training treats. Theres really a lot of options. You can even try the natural balance food rolls. I buy the small "sample" ones and cut them up for use as training treats. There's just a lot of ideas out there.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Mine love the Natural Balance Sausage that you can get at PETCO. Beef in particular.


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## Abby142 (Oct 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> What people don't realize is that resource guarding is hard wired behavior. Puppies are born fighting for their food, because if they don't eat, they will die.
> I've seen newborn infants nursing that will "scrap" with other puppies and fight for the nipple. Before their eyes are even opened.
> Since it's hard wired behavior it's going to be difficult to "punish" it away, which is why a _paradigm shift_ is necessary - seeing yourself as the giver instead of taker. "I should be able to take away my dog's food", etc. sure, you "should" be able to, but you won't be able to by using old and outdated methods of doing so.
> 
> RG and FA are two major reasons dogs are given up and put in shelters - whenever you can, spread the word on the correct way to work with those issues.


That is a really good point. I have never thought of it being a hard wired behavior before but that makes a lot of sense. Okay no more taking the food away to add the goodies, I'll just add the goodies as she is eating. Thanks, I guess being stubborn and set in our ways is a human hard wire behavior, or it is for me at least.:blush:


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I put some cheese in Eko's bowl this morning and he seemed pleasantly surprised lol. I just left him alone after that and let him eat. But no growling! Yay


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> I put some cheese in Eko's bowl this morning and he seemed pleasantly surprised lol. I just left him alone after that and let him eat. But no growling! Yay


 
yay!!!! it's a step in the right direction!


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I was making an appointment for his one year rabies shot and the clerk making the appointment said (right after I told her his breed :/) that if he was aggressive in any way they would not see him and I would have to leave. It's a new vet and he's been fine before but I hope that doesn't change along with this weird aggressive streak he's had. I'm sure it will be okay though. I'm just already worried about it and she put new things to worry about in my head.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> I was making an appointment for his one year rabies shot and the clerk making the appointment said (right after I told her his breed :/) that if he was aggressive in any way they would not see him and I would have to leave. It's a new vet and he's been fine before but I hope that doesn't change along with this weird aggressive streak he's had. I'm sure it will be okay though. I'm just already worried about it and she put new things to worry about in my head.


 
I would find a new vet anyway with that statement. They work in a field where scared animals come in all the time. If a scared and injured animal comes in and shows aggression because of pain, do they just stop treating the animal?! Vet clinics have muzzles for a reason. You never know how an animal is going to react. Vet clinics have so many smells and things going on, it can be overwhelming for any animal that goes in. Some cower and try to hide, others are calm, and others react to intimidate. Some animals are fine with certain vets but other vets upset them. I would actually complain about that to someone higher up. ANYONE in the animal field faces the possiblity of encountering an aggressive behavior. 

Riley had a bad experience at a vets office and he was never 100% okay at a vets office again after that. When I went to have him put to sleep to end his suffering, they were warned ahead of time that he wasn't comfortable and could potentially react badly. They had me muzzle him and hold his head because he behaved better with me than if I'd stepped out of the room or they'd taken him into the back room to put the catheter in. They were prepared for a problem and appropriately cautious. I wouldn't trust a vets office that from the sounds of things, assumes that because he's a shepherd, he automatically dangerous. Wonder if they'd reject an aggressive chihuahua. Sorry for the rant. This kind of thing makes me mad. If you work with animals all day, you should be prepared for different reactions. Some people don't like going to the doctors and react negatively. Why would it be expected for animals to be any different. They either do or they dont.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes, I mentioned it because I was a little upset by what she said too, I bet if I had told her he was a chocolate lab there would have been no problem. I wondered the same thing, shouldn't this vet know how to deal with a stressed animal? She doesn't know anything about my dog other than his breed, his gender, age and name. Then after she said that, I told her he was not neutered and did not plan to neuter him for a while, as long as he wasn't humping or marking or jumping the fence I wanted to let him grow up a bit more and I could tell from her voice she didn't approve and she told me "well you should speak to the vet about that" since she "hated her shepherd until he was neutered". I was shocked that she would be so biased against my dog because of his breed and she had one herself. I just told I would speak to the vet about it. I felt like I was being scolded the whole time. :/ I may be young but that doesn't mean she can lecture me into doing what she thinks is right for my dog that she's never even seen before.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

"What people don't realize is that resource guarding is hard wired behavior. Puppies are born fighting for their food, because if they don't eat, they will die."

How would one ever be able to feed multiple dogs right next to each other?

An old wives tale it sounds like - or an excuse for poor doggy behavior. 

isn't it also equally hard wired Dog behavior to not allow things not in the pack access to their dens (houses)?

Then how would we ever explain dogs being so happy and welcoming to strangers when they meet them and even with many dogs welcoming total strangers into their house?

NOT all dogs of course, BUT then most dogs are not RG, are they.

Food aggression or RG of any type is a matter of training! Except in perhaps the case of a mentally deficient dog (a psycho in human terms if you will)

We have owned 8/9 GSDs over the years and not one ever had any FA or RG issues - WL, SL, BYB none! And some were very aggressive dominant dogs in many ways.

TRAINING makes a HUGE difference in any dog's social behavior - easily overcoming many doggy tendencies.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> Yes, I mentioned it because I was a little upset by what she said too, I bet if I had told her he was a chocolate lab there would have been no problem. I wondered the same thing, shouldn't this vet know how to deal with a stressed animal? She doesn't know anything about my dog other than his breed, his gender, age and name. Then after she said that, I told her he was not neutered and did not plan to neuter him for a while, as long as he wasn't humping or marking or jumping the fence I wanted to let him grow up a bit more and I could tell from her voice she didn't approve and she told me "well you should speak to the vet about that" since she "hated her shepherd until he was neutered". I was shocked that she would be so biased against my dog because of his breed and she had one herself. I just told I would speak to the vet about it. I felt like I was being scolded the whole time. :/ I may be young but that doesn't mean she can lecture me into doing what she thinks is right for my dog that she's never even seen before.


 
I know the feeling. When I first adopted Zena, I stuck with the vet I had her spayed at for a little while but every time we were in there, the vets would talk down to me like I was a complete idiot that didnt know my dog. I left their practice because I didn't appreciate being talked down to for no reason and them automatically assuming I was stupid. The vet i started going to after that not only adores the dogs, but they talk to you like a real person and listen to you. Its not okay to assume everyone is stupid about their pets. My dog and my cats are family. I always go to them when I'm here at home. When we're at our duty station it's a little harder to find a vet I like half as much. 

I cant understand why people think that because they cant handle THEIR dog, others who have the same breed can't handle them either.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

KZoppa said:


> I cant understand why people think that because they cant handle THEIR dog, others who have the same breed can't handle them either.


Exactly! I'm happy with how my puppy has turned out, and since they don't know anything about how my dog behaves I don't feel like she should be telling me anything at all about how to deal with my dog. Especially when I didn't ask for her opinion, all I wanted was to make an appointment.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> Exactly! I'm happy with how my puppy has turned out, and since they don't know anything about how my dog behaves I don't feel like she should be telling me anything at all about how to deal with my dog. Especially when I didn't ask for her opinion, all I wanted was to make an appointment.


 
she should have kept her opinions to herself. After the vet treating me like an idiot, I pretty much decided I would interview the vets I dealt with after that because thats exactly what it needs to be. They want my business and/or recommendations, the staff as well as the doctors, need to be respectful of me and my animals and the fact I'm paying them money that could very easily go elsewhere. Zena had to be muzzled at the vets office that treated me like I didnt have a brain. The staff at the vets office she's registered at now not only know her by name but they adore her and she loves them. She hasnt had to be muzzled at the vets office since she started going there. A lot of the way an animal behaves at the vet is associations and the atmosphere. If you take an animal into an atmosphere that already has it out for them because of their breed and assumed attitude, thats where you can develope a lot of problems. I just wish more people understood this. Even the low cost clinic Shasta was spayed at last year was friendly. We walked in and they eyed her for a minute and there were no problems. When I picked her up, they said she was their best patient. She listened, walked nicely on leash for them and was just a very good girl, despite the fact she obviously hated me having to leave her in there for a few hours. Atmosphere has a big effect!


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes, that's absolutely true Eko picks up on our moods all the time he knows when we're happy or upset or tense. Things are pretty normal around the house now there's been no roughhousing and Eko loves getting little treats in his bowl. Now when he notices me even coming towards his food bowl he takes a step back and looks up at me wagging his tail.  He caught on pretty fast!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> Yes, that's absolutely true Eko picks up on our moods all the time he knows when we're happy or upset or tense. Things are pretty normal around the house now there's been no roughhousing and Eko loves getting little treats in his bowl. Now when he notices me even coming towards his food bowl he takes a step back and looks up at me wagging his tail.  He caught on pretty fast!


 
Good!!!! Glad things seem to be improving!!!! We have four dogs here. Bear and Ninja are the hound mixes (very long story), Zena and Shasta. Shasta is my dog. The other three belong to my father in law. Again, long story about Zena there, but they ALL know me as basically a treat dispenser that also doesnt put up with any nonsense. Shasta has never shown any kind of aggression. I can mess with her, mess with her bowl, add some food, take it away, give it back. Whatever. She doesnt care. Zena only has problems with the other dogs being near her food. She knows I won't allow her to behave poorly, especially with food but you can stick your hand in her bowl and she just eats around it. Ninja is the most submissive dog I've ever been around. You could throw him into a raging fire and he's still try to roll over and show you his belly. Bear is blind in one eye. He's more assertive than his brother and tends to be quicker to growl at anyone near his food. They see me coming down the hall when they're eating and they stop and wait wagging tails and get these sad rejected looks on their faces if I don't add anything to their bowls or rough them up a bit. Bear growls at other people or animals who get near his bowl though. He's fine with me and the kids. lol. We have some wacky animals here.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

KZoppa said:


> Good!!!! Glad things seem to be improving!!!! We have four dogs here. Bear and Ninja are the hound mixes (very long story), Zena and Shasta. Shasta is my dog. The other three belong to my father in law. Again, long story about Zena there, but they ALL know me as basically a treat dispenser that also doesnt put up with any nonsense. Shasta has never shown any kind of aggression. I can mess with her, mess with her bowl, add some food, take it away, give it back. Whatever. She doesnt care. Zena only has problems with the other dogs being near her food. She knows I won't allow her to behave poorly, especially with food but you can stick your hand in her bowl and she just eats around it. Ninja is the most submissive dog I've ever been around. You could throw him into a raging fire and he's still try to roll over and show you his belly. Bear is blind in one eye. He's more assertive than his brother and tends to be quicker to growl at anyone near his food. They see me coming down the hall when they're eating and they stop and wait wagging tails and get these sad rejected looks on their faces if I don't add anything to their bowls or rough them up a bit. Bear growls at other people or animals who get near his bowl though. He's fine with me and the kids. lol. We have some wacky animals here.


Lol they are all different.  My golden retriever I had before Eko was very submissive, we never had any issues with her. She was my easiest dog, she had 3 accidents in the house in her entire life, and that was when she was a puppy. No food aggression, ever. Eko has made me work for it, on the other hand. We went through a stage where (I know it sounds crazy but it's true) Eko would pee a little on the living room rug right in front of you to make you get up and take him outside.  He would look at you right in the eyes and do it, and it happened so many times I KNEW it was on purpose. Now he just stares at you really hard for a while and when you say "what?" he runs to the back door then back you and back to the door until you get up. Drives my boyfriend crazy but a huge improvement from scrubbing the rug every day! He's a pain, but we love him to death anyway. Our cat could do without him though... they have a love-hate relationship. His new favorite way to torture the cat is to muzzle-punch him when he is trying to jump on the table and make him fall. He's gotten scratched pretty good a time or two when I wasn't there to separate them but it only seems to make him even more excited. :/ I think he thinks the cat is one of his stuffed toys come to life or something.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

codmaster said:


> "What people don't realize is that resource guarding is hard wired behavior. Puppies are born fighting for their food, because if they don't eat, they will die."
> 
> How would one ever be able to feed multiple dogs right next to each other?
> 
> ...


I agree. I think this behavior often manifests in dogs raised with unclear boundaries or poor structure. As for a 10 week old pup exhibiting this behavior that should be relatively easy to handle and yes I would physically move the pup off the item then when he relaxes move away from the item, this is simply part of the learning curve. Pup learns I own everything, the food, the toys, the space everything and I decide when he accesses it. I am not taking it away from him, I am just denying access to him when he is in that negative state of mind. When he is exhibiting posative behaviors he regains said access. Thats a lesson most dogs will pick up on with very few repititions.
For older dogs I might try +R, honestly I am of the opinion that whatever works best is the way to go. One thing I do know is that food aggression or RG is a no go in my home. Have lots of little dogs running around and people moving to and fro, I will not put up with someone getting tagged.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I agree. I think this behavior often manifests in dogs raised with unclear boundaries or poor structure. As for a 10 week old pup exhibiting this behavior that should be relatively easy to handle and yes I would physically move the pup off the item then when he relaxes move away from the item, this is simply part of the learning curve. Pup learns I own everything, the food, the toys, the space everything and I decide when he accesses it. I am not taking it away from him, I am just denying access to him when he is in that negative state of mind. When he is exhibiting posative behaviors he regains said access. Thats a lesson most dogs will pick up on with very few repititions.
> For older dogs I might try +R, honestly I am of the opinion that whatever works best is the way to go. One thing I do know is that food aggression or RG is a no go in my home. Have lots of little dogs running around and people moving to and fro, I will not put up with someone getting tagged.


I also agree with this. I've had dogs for over 35 years, and I've ALWAYS been able to pick up their bowls, put my hand in their bowls, take things out of their mouths, etc. with no aggression. Too much potential danger if you can't do that. Some were adult dogs who'd been abused... and they still didn't show any signs of that. It sounds to me like it's all related. Training and rules needed!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

An interesting excerpt from _The Dog's Mind_ by Bruce Fogle D.M.V.,M.R.C.V.S. (pg.175)

"In the early 1960's, researchers in the United States observed that aggressive strains of Wire-haired Fox terriers could not be reared together in normal litters because subordinate pups tended to be killed or mutilated by their dominant siblings."

This isn't referenced in particular, but in the bibliography for the chapter, Scott & Fuller's_ Genetics and the Social behavior of the Dog_ is referred to.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Blanketback said:


> An interesting excerpt from _The Dog's Mind_ by Bruce Fogle D.M.V.,M.R.C.V.S. (pg.175)
> 
> "In the early 1960's, researchers in the United States observed that aggressive strains of Wire-haired Fox terriers could not be reared together in normal litters because subordinate pups tended to be killed or mutilated by their dominant siblings."
> 
> This isn't referenced in particular, but in the bibliography for the chapter, Scott & Fuller's_ Genetics and the Social behavior of the Dog_ is referred to.


I believe that was astudy that basically did not have the mother in the litter very long.

And i would expect that to happen if the pups were to be raised without a dominant figure in the mother to keep the peace.

I suspect that humans would act exactly the same in most cases without a "mother' to teach and enforce the rules, wouldn't you?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

He goes on to say, "These latent aggressive tendencies never developed, however, when litter mates were isolated at an early age and hand reared until weaning."

So I'm concluding from that, that the pups were indeed on the teat. Unfortunately, looking at the index of Scott & Fuller's book doesn't help, because there's no "resource guarding" or "food aggression" mentioned - although this breed was one used in their study, so I'm sure it's there somewhere. I just have to find it.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I may be way out in left field, but when someone describes sudden agression from an otherwise calm, approachable dog I always want to say make sure there are no medical issues..tick disease, thyroid are a few things that come to mind that will alter behavior.

Otherwise some really good advice in this thread. Good luck


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Courtney said:


> I may be way out in left field, but when someone describes sudden agression from an otherwise calm, approachable dog I always want to say make sure there are no medical issues..tick disease, thyroid are a few things that come to mind that will alter behavior.
> 
> Otherwise some really good advice in this thread. Good luck


It could be but with shepherds you see alot of these "my one year old dog growled at me" threads. What you tend to find is the dog has been raised with lots of love and minimal to no boundaries. Some breeds are more forgiving to an unstructured upbringing, GSD aren't one of them. If you look through the posts you can see the dogs behavior escelating in certain situations and there were probably numerous warning signs that went un observed prior to these incidents. In most of these cases the dog is gaining maturity and things that were merely cute or amusing as a pup have become more serious as the animal gains size and developes a stronger rank drive.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

He has a vet appointment next week so I will be sure to ask the vet about that to make sure there's nothing else going on. 

And no, probably not as many boundaries as there should be but he's our first gsd so we are still learning. We still see him as a puppy so I think we've let him get away with more than he should.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> Lol they are all different.  My golden retriever I had before Eko was very submissive, we never had any issues with her. She was my easiest dog, she had 3 accidents in the house in her entire life, and that was when she was a puppy. No food aggression, ever. Eko has made me work for it, on the other hand. We went through a stage where (I know it sounds crazy but it's true) Eko would pee a little on the living room rug right in front of you to make you get up and take him outside.  He would look at you right in the eyes and do it, and it happened so many times I KNEW it was on purpose. Now he just stares at you really hard for a while and when you say "what?" he runs to the back door then back you and back to the door until you get up. Drives my boyfriend crazy but a huge improvement from scrubbing the rug every day! He's a pain, but we love him to death anyway. Our cat could do without him though... they have a love-hate relationship. His new favorite way to torture the cat is to muzzle-punch him when he is trying to jump on the table and make him fall. He's gotten scratched pretty good a time or two when I wasn't there to separate them but it only seems to make him even more excited. :/ I think he thinks the cat is one of his stuffed toys come to life or something.


 

I can believe that! Zena used to do that. Stare at us, pop a squat and let loose. Shasta did it ONCE and never again. Shasta stopped messing with the cats when she hit two years old. She'll still play bounce at them hoping they'll play but its never happened. Without Riley around anymore, Faith, my 7 lbs of meowing terror cat, started rubbing on Shasta. Shasta backs up with this mixture of horror and total confusion on her face. She really has no idea how to handle it. lol. Faith always rubbed on Riley but she was raised with him. Shasta is like WTF ARE YOU DOING?!?!?!


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Some days are better than others. I have pictures of them cuddling up for a nap and the next day I'm mopping up blood from Eko's leg where he got scratched for pestering the cat too much. Usually depends on what mood my tomcat is in. My cat was raised with dogs but he doesn't tolerate much nonsense. I feel like if I could exercise Eko more he would settle down more but since the park near our house stopped allowing dogs, and I am terrified to walk him in the street anymore (his car chasing), I can only try my best to wear him out in the backyard playing fetch and chasing him the last couple weeks. He is pretty wound up at this point, I'm working on finding some kind of training collar that my family doesn't think is "barbaric" like prong and e-collars, etc. They barely let me use a martingale collar on him, I had to show them over and over how it's not a choke collar. :/


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## Chrissy (Feb 23, 2013)

Sarah, I know all about a picky eater with treats! My dog spits almost all of them out. I have found that the soft treats work sometimes. The best thing for him is cheese! String cheese is now a stable at our home. Just break off a small piece at a time and hopefully you will have a happily rewarded baby!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Sarah~ said:


> Some days are better than others. I have pictures of them cuddling up for a nap and the next day I'm mopping up blood from Eko's leg where he got scratched for pestering the cat too much. Usually depends on what mood my tomcat is in. My cat was raised with dogs but he doesn't tolerate much nonsense. I feel like if I could exercise Eko more he would settle down more but since the park near our house stopped allowing dogs, and I am terrified to walk him in the street anymore (his car chasing), I can only try my best to wear him out in the backyard playing fetch and chasing him the last couple weeks. He is pretty wound up at this point, I'm working on finding some kind of training collar that my family doesn't think is "barbaric" like prong and e-collars, etc. They barely let me use a martingale collar on him, I had to show them over and over how it's not a choke collar. :/


 
I would put it to them this way. The dog is out of control, using a tool that can give you control quickly will allow you to get your dog outside on walks and experiencing the world like he should be. Whats barbaric is keeping the dog locked up all day and not giving him the structure he needs to grow into a healthy SAFE member of the family. Dogs arent people they need to stop humanizing him and get with the program. Also, if they are that worried about the prong I would have one of them put it on their thigh and take a correction. They will quickly see that it looks much worse then it is in actuality.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I didn't even think of having them try that, that's a good idea  and I agree its much worse to keep him cooped up in the house and backyard all the time he LOVES his walks and I enjoy walking him as long as there are no cars. 

We went to the vet today, everything is normal he is in great health except for a little yeast in the ears and some pyoderma (sp?) on his tummy. We got some medicine and I took him to petsmart to pick out some treats and a toy and I was shocked at how well behaved he was all day long. No chasing the other dogs, no jumping on people, he was very polite. A few people wanted to pet him, we didn't mind we just let whoever wanted to approach us and the people who were uncomfortable or didn't care go by. All the petsmart staff commented on how well he did I can imagine they see some pretty rowdy dogs. There were a few times at the vet and petsmart that Eko had a little episode where he tried to bolt and seemed very nervous but they were very short and only when we first got there after a minute he relaxed and was his normal self. He really didn't like the vet tech, though. First time in his life I've ever seen him back away and try to hide behind me from a person. He warmed up after a while, though.

But overall things are great at the moment, the no roughhousing rule has really helped and making him sit before the door opens has made a pretty noticeable difference. The cat snuck by me and made an attempt to sneak some of Eko's food, when I picked him up Eko snapped at him so it seems like I will have to figure out some way to make sure they are separated at mealtimes since it is a pretty big trigger for him.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Feed Eko in a crate with the door closed. If the door is closed, the cat cant get there. 

Far as the training tools, used improperly anything can be cruel and dangerous. Simple as that. Used properly, the dog only learns whats okay and whats not. It shouldnt have a negative effect on his personality or behavior. A prong collar has a limit on how far it can go whereas a choke chain/slip collar does not. Dogs have died using a slip chain. Martingales are basically fabric versions of a prong collar without the prongs. If Eko the whole families dog? or just YOUR dog? That makes a difference.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

He's my dog, they all know that but it's hard to go against them when they make it seem like I'm trying to make excuses to abuse him. And when I do get fed up enough to put it on him anyway, they take it off behind my back and hide it from me. They have also called me names over it, like "abusive son of a bitch" and have pretty much beaten me down so much over the issue that I don't even bring it up anymore. I've begged them to walk with us and see how bad the behavior has become but they won't. Then the last time I walked him he almost pulled me into a school bus and that was the final straw. I stopped walking him and now all I hear about is how I need to walk him more because he's bouncing off the walls. My only other option is a gentle leader but I don't feel like that will be enough to hold him back, I've had him rip straps on a nylon harness trying to get at cars.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> He's my dog, they all know that but it's hard to go against them when they make it seem like I'm trying to make excuses to abuse him. And when I do get fed up enough to put it on him anyway, they take it off behind my back and hide it from me. They have also called me names over it, like "abusive son of a bitch" and have pretty much beaten me down so much over the issue that I don't even bring it up anymore. I've begged them to walk with us and see how bad the behavior has become but they won't. Then the last time I walked him he almost pulled me into a school bus and that was the final straw. I stopped walking him and now all I hear about is how I need to walk him more because he's bouncing off the walls. My only other option is a gentle leader but I don't feel like that will be enough to hold him back, I've had him rip straps on a nylon harness trying to get at cars.


 
For a dog that car chases, I wouldnt even consider a gentle leader. Not only are they kind of flimsy, but he could seriously injure himself lunging. You can use a prong collar for walks. He's not supposed to wear it all the time anyway. Shasta wears a flat leather collar all the time but the prong only goes on for walks and comes right back off. Its usually those who don't understand the functions of the tools that scream the loudest about cruelty. A prong collar is a heck of lot safer than a slip chain is. Not to mention far more effective. You do what YOU need to do for YOUR dog and if anyone butts in, go off. They can do with their dogs what they want but obviously, your boy needs to get some energy out and walks are a good way to do that but that cant be achieved if he's yanking your arm out of socket.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

You're right, I do need to tell them to butt out more. He's my dog, my responsibility, and I make the decisions I about his training. I will take him for a walk tomorrow with the prong and start working on his car chasing again. He's going to be so happy to go for walks again!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> You're right, I do need to tell them to butt out more. He's my dog, my responsibility, and I make the decisions I about his training. I will take him for a walk tomorrow with the prong and start working on his car chasing again. He's going to be so happy to go for walks again!


 
just make sure the prong is properly fitted or it won't be effective. There are tons of ways you can work on the car chasing. There's several threads here that have good advice on it for the very same subject. I know several members have had car chasers that improved with consistent training and focus training. Let us know how the walk goes!!!! Remember, it will take time!


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