# My puppy has become more aggressive after being neutered :(



## William Markham

I have two lab puppies, a brother and sister who are now about 8 and 1/2 months old. I had them both "fixed" (neutered and spayed) about 10 days ago. The surgeries went fine, and one week later the vet gave me the green light to take off their cones (Elizabethan collars) and let them return to the park, and today we can return to the beach. 

So we have been going to the park for off-leash runs the last 4 days, just was we did before my boy puppy was neutered. Before he was neutered, he was aggressive towards another dog only once -- his brother, who visited our home one time for a supposed reunion, but who tried to eat some food sitting on the counter. My puppy harassed him so badly that my assistant, who has him, had to take him away. Otherwise, my boy puppy was NEVER, EVER aggressive towards other dogs, but always playful with them and with his sister.

But he would sometimes stray while off leash and blatantly ignore my commands to the point where it had become a serious problem. 

Since he was neutered he has become OBVIOUSLY MORE AGGRESSIVE. In four days he has attacked or picked on four different dogs, typically smaller female dogs. 

There has been no biting, but today was the worst: He had a female dog by the throat and would not let go until two of us pulled him off!  

He never did this before. I need to establish more leadership and train him much, much better, but this has happened to us too, and I am very, very concerned. He is a Lab, 8 months old. What happened to the other fellow's dog who became more aggressive?

I would really appreciate any help that anyone can provide. Thanks.


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## Jax08

I have heard of dogs that were 'funky' until all the hormone levels came down and for a few days afterwards due to the anesthetic.


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## William Markham

*Using training and professional guidance*

My puppy suddenly became aggressive towards other dogs directly after being neutered (that is, after he resuming his regular routine upon recovering from the surgery). He instigated three fights, which he had never done before, except one time when we brought his brother puppy to our home, and the brother reached for food, but otherwise he only played with other puppies and never showed any aggression at all. 

I no longer take him to the park, have hired a trainer to work with us daily, and will obtain a consultation from a specialist tomorrow. He might have had a latent issue of aggression, but there is no question that his neutering or the period directly after the neutering induced a dramatic change in his personality. Period. 

Whatever the cause, I sincerely and utterly hope that with proper training and guidance we nip this problem in the bud.


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## msvette2u

It sounds like he was challenging you in a number of ways and I believe with or without the surgery you'd be dealing with this same issue as sexual maturity hits.
Rather like teen boys in the throes of puberty, "teen" boy dogs can have some pretty interesting and challenging behaviors including the onset of "my pants are bigger than yours".


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## Falkosmom

Seriously, how do you think you would feel ten days after having such a procedure done? Forget what the vet says, think about it.


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## llombardo

msvette2u said:


> It sounds like he was challenging you in a number of ways and I believe with or without the surgery you'd be dealing with this same issue as sexual maturity hits.
> Rather like teen boys in the throes of puberty, "teen" boy dogs can have some pretty interesting and challenging behaviors including the onset of "my pants are bigger than yours".


I agree 100%...one question to original poster-In the original post you stated he picked on or attacked, I would think there is a difference. Is it possible that he plays more roughly then other dogs? My dogs always play and grab each others necks, legs, etc and they sound like they are killing each other. It really isn't in a labs nature to be aggressive, but like in any other breed its always a possiblity. Labs are strong, playful, goofy, energetic, generally good tempered breeds that in most cases just want to play.


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## msvette2u

Falkosmom said:


> Seriously, how do you think you would feel ten days after having such a procedure done? Forget what the vet says, think about it.


That is true, too!

Temple Grandin wrote in her books, that as humans, we feel "pain and misery". That is, we react to our pain by feeling miserable as well.
Dogs (it is surmised, they've studied this) feel the same pain but don't tend to do the "misery" part of it. So while they hurt, they just don't show it like we do.
I found that quite interesting.
Our vet issues 3 days of Rimadyl standard with every s/n they do, studies have also shown it helps reduce the swelling and promotes the healing process. Dogs, just like humans, heal better if not in pain.


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## William Markham

Sadly for us, the problem is not overly rowdy play. Directly after his neutering, he instigated three seemingly unprovoked fights and growled aggressively a few times towards other dogs, and so I had to stop taking my pups to the park each afternoon, where we used to go literally every day, rain or shine. I still take them to the beach on long leads each morning, and I am working with a good trainer to nip this problem in the bud, and she thinks he is a kind, good dog, and that his prognosis is good. And we clearly were going to have issues anyway, but I have been inseparable from them since adopting them, and you can believe or disbelieve me, but he radically changed after being neutered: He stopped his incessant humping activity, became unacceptably aggressive towards other dogs but fortunately has good bite inhibition and has not caused any harm at all, stopped straying the way he did before the operation...

Stan Rawlinson, an English trainer, says that he has treated many castrated males who suddenly became aggressive after the neutering, but everyone else whom I have read or consulted says that castration should not induce an aggressive temperment, but perhaps the frustration and pain of the procedure and recovery affected him. I have read several accounts online of other owners and dogs who have had this experience. It has changed our lives because my other puppy no longer gets to go to the park each afternoon, and she sees that things have changed around here.

Well, we have to deal with the trials that life sends our way, and I love these two so much that I will whatever it takes so that they can lead good, happy lives. We will see a veterinary behavorialist today. I will need work on myself too, as I am no longer at ease when my boy dog comes into contact with other dogs, but I am doing everything I can, and my two adolescents are really good, kind, loyal, loving dogs. That's is the truth.


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## msvette2u

I wonder if he felt "off" and vulnerable so he wanted to make sure the other dogs stayed away.
Pain will do that to dogs, as well. 
Is there some reason you're on a GSD forum asking for advice with Labs? I'm curious, because perhaps there's more specific answers to Labradors and other Lab owners could assist you better.


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## William Markham

msvette2u said:


> I wonder if he felt "off" and vulnerable so he wanted to make sure the other dogs stayed away.
> Pain will do that to dogs, as well.
> Is there some reason you're on a GSD forum asking for advice with Labs? I'm curious, because perhaps there's more specific answers to Labradors and other Lab owners could assist you better.


I posted on this forum because there was a current thread from someone else who had had the same experience -- having his male dog become unexpectedly aggressive immediately after castration.

We today visited a veterinary behavioral specialist, who helped me to remember better exactly what happened. His view is that my puppy was going to have dog aggression issues sooner or later, and what might have provoked the sudden onset was the stress of the surgery and then spending one week under sedation and sometimes leashed to the door so that his sister could recover without him playing with her, plus he was still under sedation when I first took him and his sister to the park, and he has instigated fights only at this park, but not at the beach where we also have gone. 

But he made clear that aggression of this kind can easily become a self-reinforcing tendency if it is not treated.

He also opined that because my dog has not harmed any dog, he is not a dangerous dog, but he is an unacceptably obnoxious dog, and that if his aggression is not checked it will likely worsen. And so I will be working with a trainer several times a week on de-sensitization, counter-conditioning, and related exercises. We have to worry about his sister too because her whole routine has been upset by this problem

I hope that training/therapy can really help with this. It really has been a hard time for us.... Thanks for everyone's comments, and I really hope to read others too.


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## marshies

So glad you have the resources and the professionals you need to help you through this issue. 

Best of luck.


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## codmaster

William Markham said:


> Sadly for us, the problem is not overly rowdy play. Directly after his neutering, he instigated three seemingly unprovoked fights and growled aggressively a few times towards other dogs, and so I had to stop taking my pups to the park each afternoon, where we used to go literally every day, rain or shine. I still take them to the beach on long leads each morning, and I am working with a good trainer to nip this problem in the bud, and she thinks he is a kind, good dog, and that his prognosis is good. And we clearly were going to have issues anyway, but I have been inseparable from them since adopting them, and you can believe or disbelieve me, but he radically changed after being neutered: He stopped his incessant humping activity, became unacceptably aggressive towards other dogs but fortunately has good bite inhibition and has not caused any harm at all, stopped straying the way he did before the operation...
> 
> Stan Rawlinson, an English trainer, says that he has treated many castrated males who suddenly became aggressive after the neutering, but everyone else whom I have read or consulted says that castration should not induce an aggressive temperment, but perhaps the frustration and pain of the procedure and recovery affected him. I have read several accounts online of other owners and dogs who have had this experience. It has changed our lives because my other puppy no longer gets to go to the park each afternoon, and she sees that things have changed around here.
> 
> Well, we have to deal with the trials that life sends our way, and I love these two so much that I will whatever it takes so that they can lead good, happy lives. We will see a veterinary behavorialist today. I will need work on myself too, as I am no longer at ease when *my boy dog comes into contact with other dogs,* but I am doing everything I can, and my two adolescents are really good, kind, loyal, loving dogs. That's is the truth.


 
Maybe you can stop the contact with other dogs - keep him on leash?


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## William Markham

Right now he has virtually no contact with other dogs and is on a leash with or without a gentle leader when he has passing contact, but he has to learn how to have *positive associations with chance contacts and then progress from there.* It is an incremental process. But for the moment his socialization has pretty much come to a halt. 

I also have to make sure that *they learn to look to me for permission to do whatever it is that they want to do.* That is for their own good. This is going to take a lot of work and constancy, but I am on board with the program.


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## Freestep

William Markham said:


> We today visited a veterinary behavioral specialist, who helped me to remember better exactly what happened. His view is that my puppy was going to have dog aggression issues sooner or later, and what might have provoked the sudden onset was the stress of the surgery and then spending one week under sedation and sometimes leashed to the door so that his sister could recover without him playing with her, *plus he was still under sedation when I first took him and his sister to the park*, and he has instigated fights only at this park, but not at the beach where we also have gone.


Aha!

I was about to say the same thing--that his aggressiveness toward other dogs was probably going to happen sooner or later, with or without neuter, but the stress of recovery and the pent-up energy that ensued probably triggered it. I didn't realize you had taken him to the park under sedation--I am sure he felt strange, vulnerable, and stir-crazy all at the same time. Glad you are working with a trainer to get this issue under control. I have heard that some dogs become more dog-aggressive after altering, although in my experience, it's tended more toward the opposite. I am sure that once his hormones level out (it takes about 6 weeks post-surgery), and he starts feeling like himself again, the training you're giving him will help level his attitude. Many teenage dogs do go through these kinds of behavioral issues, just like human teenagers.


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## msvette2u

> His view is that my puppy was going to have dog aggression issues sooner or later, and what might have provoked the sudden onset was the stress of the surgery and then spending one week under sedation and sometimes leashed to the door so that his sister could recover without him playing with her, plus he was still under sedation when I first took him and his sister to the park, and he has instigated fights only at this park, but not at the beach where we also have gone.


Under sedation!? This reinforces my belief also that he felt vulnerable. Any time dogs don't "feel right", they don't understand "Oh, I had some medication so that's why I'm loopy" or whatever, they just know they are very vulnerable.

What was he taking for pain/sedation??


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## RebelGSD

Was he really under sedation for a week? Some sedatives can cause aggressive responses in some dogs, but it is rare.


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## msvette2u

I wouldn't say "rare", since most sedatives lower the inhibition dogs may have, and they do become aggressive. No ifs, ands or buts! As a euth. tech we always have to watch for this, because as soon as you sedate, the dog can easily become aggressive, even if not formerly aggressive.
It's like an alcoholic on a bender, once they lose inhibition, all bets are off.

But I don't know what sedative was given, or even why, unless the dog was being too rowdy and causing his incision to be at risk for opening.
Our vets only prescribe Rimadyl which is a pain reliever/anti-inflammatory, but it is *not* a sedative. 
The only way I could see prescribing a sedative to a dog after surgery is to cause it to not move around too much but if that's the case why go to a dog park while the dog is sedated?


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## William Markham

The sedative that we gave to him is Acepromazine -- 25mg pills, one-half a pill twice a day for an entire week, including the morning before going to the vet for the post-op examination, when they told us that he and his sister had healed well. I thought that they both had sutures, but in fact the vet had used glue, and they told us that their lampshade collars could come off and that they could return to the park, but must take it easy. He was likely still sore and had endured a miserable week which was all the worse because before then he had become accustomed to off-leash play twice every day, just about every day. For all I know the sedatives affected him and perhaps even continued to do so afterwards.

In addition, we administered Tramadol, 50 mg twice a day, for 1 or 2 days immediately after the surgery.


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## phgsd

I know Ace can make horses really unpredictable - wonder if it's the same in dogs??


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## Draugr

I talked about using Acepromazine for Samson with my old vet (or rather, the techs) a few times to try and reduce the likelihood of a negative experience at the vet's office.

They said it would probably help keep his nerves calmer, but that one of the major side effects was reduced bite inhibition so I'd have to be very careful.

That said these are also the same vets that told me that if I didn't neuter Samson he'd grow breasts and die, so take that with a grain of salt. If it's true, that's probably what you are seeing. A week out is WAY too early to see any behavioral changes from a neuter, his hormone levels are still practically the same and he can probably still even impregnate a female yet from "what's left in the pipes."

It took about five or six months before Jake's behavior improved for the better after his neuter.


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## Cassidy's Mom

phgsd said:


> I know Ace can make horses really unpredictable - wonder if it's the same in dogs??


I personally wouldn't use it: Acepromazine | Fearful Dogs



> Research has shown these drugs functions primarily as chemical restraints without affecting the animal’s emotional behavior. While under the effect of Ace, the animal still has a very strong fear, anxiety, avoidance or arousal response, but it does not physically display these reactions and is less able to react. The dog or cat appears calm and relaxed but mentally is lucid and still having an intense emotional reaction to its surroundings. Ace is a dissociative agent and prevents the patient from understanding his environment in a logical manner. So, the actual fear level of the animal is increased. Compounding the situation, the animal is being restrained and it makes a negative association with the entire experience.


There's also a concern about the MDR1 gene, an issue with herding breeds: http://www.mwcr.org/MDR1VetFactSheetLK9-8-07.pdf



> *Affected Breeds*
> The mdr1 mutation has been documented in many herding breeds and some sighthounds. Affected breeds include Australian Shepherds (all sizes), Collies, English Shepherds, German Shepherds, Longhaired Whippets, McNabs, Old English Sheepdogs, Shetland Sheepdogs, and Silken Windhounds. Researchers are currently testing more than 100 additional breeds for the mutation. (snip)
> 
> *Problem Drugs*
> P-glycoprotein transports many drugs including antiparasitic agents, opioids, cardiac drugs, immunosuppressants, steroid hormones, and anticancer agents. Research is ongoing to determine which P-glycoprotein substrates cause toxicity in dogs with the mdr1 mutation. The most commonly used medicines identified so far are _*acepromazine*_, butorphanol, cyclosporine, ivermectin, loperamide, and morphine.


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## Freestep

Ace doesn't always have a sedating effect--I've seen dogs given Ace in the vet hospital who didn't calm down at all. If you give it to them when they're already nutso, they stay nutso. The key is to give it at home where they are relaxed, about an hour before taking them to the anxiety-provoking event.

Even then, it doesn't always have the desired effect. Bite inhibition can be diminished, and sometimes the drug will make a dog unpredictable because it masks warning signals. Where normally you might be able to tell when a dog is getting upset due to his body language and expression, he might go straight from licking your hand to biting it with no warning signs.

I am surprised that the vet wanted OP's dog under sedation for an entire week. Unless he is a particularly nutso dog, that seems like overkill.


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## Draugr

Wow, thanks for posting that, Cassidy. That's kind of frightening...I'm glad I never followed through on that. Makes sense now why it would lower bite inhibition while _supposedly_ keeping them calmer.


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## Cassidy's Mom

I have no experience with Ace, (well at least not that I know of, my vet could have used it for speuters), but I'm on Leslie McDevitt's (Control Unleashed) email list, and she talks about it a lot as not being a good drug to use. Leslie has worked with Dr. Karen Overall, and I know that Dr. Overall is not a fan of Ace, there are some videos online where she discusses it.


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## William Markham

Freestep said:


> I am surprised that the vet wanted OP's dog under sedation for an entire week. Unless he is a particularly nutso dog, that seems like overkill.


No, my two puppies were very friendly, peaceful, and active, and there was no behavior issue that we were trying to address. The vet just wanted them to remain calm while they recovered from the surgery and did not want them playing with one another. 

The vet behaviorist is the one who got me to recognize that the "trigger" for my adolescent puppy's aggressive behavior was likely the sedative and the miserable ordeal of staying indoors while sedated, and sometimes confined by a leash for one week -- doing so after running offleash twice daily literally every day from four months to eight months. 

Even so, the vet behaviorist thinks that his problem lies in showing "social status" aggression towards other dogs: There was one incident before the surgery when he met his brother (whom my assistant adopted at the same time when I adopted the two of them). So we are working on de-sensitization, counter-conditioning and classical conditioning to try our best to nip this in the bud. The vet behaviorist said that my dog is not a dangerous dog but a very, very obnoxous dog who badly needs this training, and we are playing it safe with him for the indefinite future. I am also working on core obedience issues -- come (which he does very well), stay (less well), and leave it (not so well).

I add that for me he is a wonderful, loyal, loving, strong, fun, athletic, beautiful, sensitive and very smart dog. He is my boy, and we are here for him! But he simply has to learn not to have this reaction or impulse. I never even thought that it would be an issue for him, and I thought the one incident with his brother might have been because it was his brother, who came to our home and tried to take food off of the counter....


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## msvette2u

I used ace frequently but never without xylazine which is an actual sedative. Ace isn't a sedative. Its a tranquilizer.
Because it doesn't sedate truly it can be dangerous by itself as described above.


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## sparra

phgsd said:


> I know Ace can make horses really unpredictable - wonder if it's the same in dogs??


Yup....any vet who knows what they are doing wouldn't give it without some other form of sedative.....usually xylazine.

What an interesting thread.....really didn't make a lot of sense until....bingo....the drugs were mentioned. He must have felt terrible going to the dog park stonkered.....glad you have sorted it out


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## MegansGrace

msvette2u said:


> I used ace frequently but never without xylazine which is an actual sedative. *Ace isn't a sedative. Its a tranquilizer.*
> Because it doesn't sedate truly it can be dangerous by itself as described above.


Exactly. It's fairly common for horses to blow through it. It's not unheard of for people to Ace their horse and then go for a ride. I don't agree with this by any means, but I've certainly heard of it often enough. 

I wouldn't say it's "dangerous" prescribed by itself, but it's be used in specific circumstances (i.e. not in the dog park) and the directions need to be carefully followed. I've found that it's typically given to nervous dogs on car rides. It works well and I've used it myself on my Lab, Lucas. He had no ill effects. When dogs blow through it they can have lowered bite inhibition which is why it is not the drug of choice for veterinarians to give for an animal that is nervous about an exam. 

I'd definitely say this had something to do with your dog's aggression issues lately. If you're looking for a lab forum to join Labrador Retriever Dogs ChatForum Board - Dogs, Puppies, Photos, Training, Pictures, Rescue Forums is an awesome forum that I'm also a part of. I have a yellow lab now, but I'm looking to get a GSD as my next dog which is why I'm part of both. You should check it out.


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## msvette2u

I used ace/xylaxine in the shelter setting as a pre-euth sedation combo, and I had so many dogs you'd think were sleeping just rear up and snarl/snap when you went near them. I never worked w/out a catch pole after they were sedated for this very reason.
Dogs who weren't aggressive could easily become so, and dogs that were aggressive - well, that could really become quite a rodeo.

I'm thinking that the ace set the precedence into motion, hopefully the OP is working through things w/the pup now.


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## William Markham

I will join the labrador forum. 

Here is the latest. My boy pup has shown no signs of aggression lately, and we have been working on counter-conditioning and desensitization with an excellent professional trainer. The other day two different smaller, medium-sized dogs ran up to him (separately at intervals). I was ready to shut it down, but he was fine and gentle with both, just like he used to be! 

The problem is that I do not understand what suddenly set him off or when I can be sure, if ever, that he will not do what he did before. The trainer thinks that he is a good-natured dog who was traumatized by his stay at the vet and the week of being tranquilized with ACE and confined indoors after being allowed to run offleash twice each day for the preceding four months. 

He seems to be doing much better now, and I take him and his sister to a remote swamp each morning, and the trainer works with us several days a week. I am working much harder on ensuring that they obey my commands -- which I did not do nearly well enough before all of this began. I will never use that vet again. 

We are working on his reactions and working on absolute recall and the "leave it" command as well as the working each day much better on the basics. Thanks everyone for your concern and insights.


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## msvette2u

We do the best we can with what we have, and when we learn, we usually do better.
It sounds like you and your pups will be fine!


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