# Tug Training Issue



## tylernim (Nov 10, 2013)

So I just started marker training and it's going well. At the same time I'm also starting tug training with the same marker...yes...via Michael Ellis of course.

I thought we were making great progress over our first 3 sessions. He was releasing the toy more reliably and faster when I immobilize it. I was thinking about introducing the cue next time we went out to tug.

For some reason during the middle of our last session he was content to lightly nibble on the tug when I immobilized it. It's like I've nicely placed the tug on a pedestal for him to nibble on it as he sees fit. He won't actually remove his mouth from the tug. He's light enough on it that I could take it from him...but that's counter productive obviously. 

Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

You want to build up desire for the tug fight part of the game itself first before you try to introduce outting. Make it fun and make the dog really want it before you start to introduce elements of control into the game. The reward for the dog outting is the return to the game. Well if hes content on nibbling and not wanting the tug game itself then the reward doesn't really mean much to him so he continues to pester the toy.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

it's only been 3 sessions, he's not clear and testing things out and figuring out what is acceptable and what is not. Sounds pretty normal to me. STick with it, make it clear, crystal clear. Make his mouth move completely off and away from the tug before anything happens. I've even taken small steps pushing the tug back into the dog to get them to pop off and back more forecfully. But that is further along in training.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would not want to reward the frontal/chewy bite either...try to get the dog to counter and tug more. Lift the dog by the collar to out, and game back on when out happens. Tease up the dog with the tug before you allow him to have it...then he'll really want to possess it. I wouldn't command the out at this stage either.


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## tylernim (Nov 10, 2013)

Yeah I figured this was all very normal.

I'll try and find some good stuff on building tug drive before I work on immobilizing again.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Under the Ellis system the tug is just used as a reward you don't care about what kind of bite the dog is using or if it is chewy or not, you just want to focus on the dog loving the game itself and wanting that tug really badly. Don't bother caring about counters at that point either. You can get the dog to grip more and chew less just by ripping it out of his mouth when hes bringing that weak stuff. If he is done teething you should do this too just because the tug getting away builds drive for the tug. Your first sessions really need a person acting as a post with the dog on a harness if you aren't doing that already.

To set that up you would want to play some agitation line games with the tug, I'm sure you've seen it in the DVD. Don't skip the drive and desire building stages as those are critical. It is all about building desire for the tug. You would crate him a lot make him bored and then make sure the tug session was the absolute highlight of his day and the session should be less than 3 min long. To end the session you need to have someone pick him up by the harness till he drops it then go into steal it and tease him with it as the post drags him off. Focus on desire building and making it fun.

How the dog bites a tug or toy won't reflect on how he acts on a sleeve or bite pillow so don't worry about any of the countering or bite technique.


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## tylernim (Nov 10, 2013)

Admittedly I haven't purchased the DVD yet. I figured I could get started without it...obviously a mistake.

I can't really stomach the full list price of all the Leerburg DVDs I want/need. Was hoping to pick up a used copy here.

In the meantime I'll take some of your advice. Actually winning a round of tug definitely makes sense for building drive.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Where in NC are you from?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Another question I'd have is how old is the dog you're working with?


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## tylernim (Nov 10, 2013)

3.5 years


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Ah you got a big boy. What are you planning on doing with him? What are your training goals?


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

Try spend little more time just to play tug. No release comand yet. Try to tug back and forward then take step back and make him come to you to tug more. This seemed to be more important in beginning for me.


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## tylernim (Nov 10, 2013)

Baillif said:


> Ah you got a big boy. What are you planning on doing with him? What are your training goals?


The end goal is to have a very very well trained pet. I don't plan on any competitions, but I've become very interested in the process of training since I started reading in depth about Marker training a few weeks ago.

This whole thing started because we really want recall. We spend alot of time at a no leash law beach...and we would love for him to be able to run and play. Currently he wouldn't come back.

So by starting to search for recall methods on the internet I came across Marker/Clicker training. And by doing enough Marker reading you come across Ellis naturally. I started watching all of his youtube and Leerburg free stuff, and the his delivery and the way he explains his methods is incredible.

I became hooked and here we are.

I love the playful dynamic and relationship that tug forms. As well as the rest of marker training...

Specifically tug is so attractive because I always played tug with my family dogs growing up...none of which were particularly trained. 

I've now got a big boy in my life who I can really go at it with. It's a nice addition to our regular running schedule. I get a good workout...and so does he because he can't beat me. My girlfriend is unable to tug with him for long at all.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

There are huge gaps in the information with the free stuff, or stuff that isn't talked about but you could see if you knew what to look for. The biggest problem with a lot of it is you don't see the basic foundation work a lot of times until you get the DVD's or train with a trainer that knows the system. Those videos make it look a lot easier than it really is, and if you didn't start with a good foundation and just try to go out there and emulate it you run into road blocks fairly quick.

The trainer who's info I sent you is definitely worth every penny as well as a quick road trip to go see him. He does pet obedience too.


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