# Advice please on newly aggressive 8 yo GSD



## suzibrew (Nov 9, 2014)

Hi all,

I have a horrible situation I need advice on. I have an 8 year old intact male that just came out of quarantine in Australia in February of this year from the US. In the US he lived on 10 acres and was a perfect dog NEVER showed aggression to visitors. He did hate the vet but had a tough time when his paw was hurt once and never trusted them again.

Now he has been here 8 months, and I don't know if he was mistreated on his journey, traumatized by his trip or if it is because we are living in a totally different type of situation where we are in a town with neighbors on both sides a small yard and lots of cars, noises and such. a completely different environment. 

Two weeks ago a fed ex guy came inside the gate of our yard and up to the door and angus charged out and bit him. Didn't break the skin, didn't stay on him and was off him by the time I got out the door. I know he thought he was doing the right thing but this was not the first time he has shown aggression in our new town.

A woman reached down to pet him when he was on his leash out and about and he snapped at her, no threat. Another time, I was chatting to a neighbor telling her how squirrelly he had become and she reached out to him and he snapped at her. Another time an acquaintance of my husbands was out in front of the house with my husband and he snapped at him.

I tried a local trainer who said that he needed to know that I was his leader so I worked with him trying to show him that for about a month, nothing changed.

I can't tell you how horrible it is having a dog you don't trust, it is scary and no fun. I don't even feel like I can walk him without a muzzle. 

I had to go down to the town office to answer questions about the incident with the fed ex guy. They aren't aware of all of my troubles before that because thankfully he hadn't gotten to anyone before. I could actually be charged! I am beside myself. A part of me really thinks I just need to put him down and then when I start thinking that way I feel horrible for bringing him with us to this new way of life. If I would have known how it would have turned out I would have found him another home and left him with someone who had doe acreage where he would be happy.

He is so anxious all the time, goes crazy when people go by, when cars go by, it is maddening.

Any advice would be appreciated, I am sorry this is so long but I felt a little background would be good.

thanks, susan


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Hello Susan, you must be so worried. Angus, was uprooted, put on a plane, travelled so far, to be living in a place he doesn't know as home.. For 8 years, he had freedom, now he has a yard. Do you know why he was sold at 8 years? Hopefully a trainer can assist you with this agression. Deb


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

Since this is new behavior, I think a vet visit is in order. You'll definitely want a full blood panel at 8 yrs. There are medical conditions that can cause aggression.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

How long did he have to be in quarantine to come into the country? Maybe something during that time caused his new aggression, besides the changes to his life. I know how bad you must feel to have gone through getting him there to be with you and now for him to have aggression issues possibly caused from treatment during the move. I would try to find a behaviorist or veterinarian who has experience with GSD's and see if there is any medical reason, like pain, that may be causing the problem. Good luck. I hope you are able to work it out.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

There's no telling what kind of situation the dog went through in quarantine. Now he is plunked down with his family (you don't say that you were his family in the US so I am simply guessing that was the case.) in a funky environment. How much excercise does he get? Any "run free" in a safe environment time? What was his structure before? 

So yes first a vet visit, then work on comparing "before and after" situations. Good luck. I know this has been expensive for you and very stressful for the dog.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Welcome to the forum, Susan. Yes, I would have the vet check him out. 

I had an Old English show dog years ago that was not showing well with me (anxiety) and the co-owners/breeders wanted him back to see if they couldn't champion him.

They did no better with him, but they kept him a year and he was in way worse shape when I got him back with anxiety. I believe he felt abandoned by me, and it broke the relationship as it was a trust issue. He was a mess.

The dog still loved me, but the bond was forever gone. I learned so much from this and it broke my heart. This tragic scenario has made me a better dog owner as I learned about relationships with dogs the "hard" way.

I encourage you to also seek a trainer. It sounds like your boy has been through so much. Perhaps building engagement activities and trust building exercises would help.

You didn't know this was going to happen. Please don't blame yourself. 

In my case, the dog was PTS. His eyes said he was relieved to put an end to trying to fix the situation that ultimately had no solution.

Praying for you and your boy.


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## suzibrew (Nov 9, 2014)

*thanks*

Thanks for the ideas everyone. I am sorry I didn't make that part clear, I have had him since he was 8 weeks old and he has been probably the best dog I have ever had, played with my kids, welcomed strangers and friends, was really tuned in to our family.

I think a vet is my first stop, will look for a vet with behaviorist expertise.

It is tough.

Susan


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I am so sorry your dog is having issues. Many dogs successfully transition from the country to the city (two of mine did) so I do think there must be a missing piece there in the quarantine. 

I wonder about some calming herbs and something like Reiki? What kind of daily training do you do and how much exercise does he get? Have you tried returning to square one with training, keeping it positive and working with LAT techniques? 

Until you find more answers I would muzzle him for everyone's safety. 

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Sounds like he needs some hikes, and time to run like he used to.... If all checks out at the vet (which I hope it does), I would try taking him on long walks, hikes, do agility or something that can help ease and 'play out' his tension and stress. Maybe a doggie buddy be can play with would help. Would definitely try the walks and hikes first before any drastic or life ending decisions are made, imho. 
Good luck! God bless, 
Misty


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

Is he neutered? If he's neutered, he is more likely than an intact dog to suffer several ailments that can cause that kind of behavior. First thing I would do is have your vet pull blood, then send it to Dr. Jean Dodds and do a FULL thyroid panel. A regular vet's regular thyroid test is NOT sufficient to gauge whether this could be the cause. Here's a link to her blog and thyroid articles. Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Thyroid Articles by Dr. Jean Dodds

Another question I would wonder about is was he vaccinated above and beyond regular protocol in order to enter the new country? If so, did he receive perhaps double rabies? I know a dog who left the country w/owners and since the rabies shot was more than a couple months old, they made her redo the dog's shots and he had issues for several months afterwards (seizures, neuro, etc.). He was an older dog (not ancient, maybe 8-9) and his health went downhill pretty quickly with a myriad of new auto-immune problems he'd never had before. My guess is the stress of the journey and quarantine, coupled with the chemical cocktail was enough to push him over the edge, physically, but some dogs may manifest similar problems in behavior and not just physical health. 

If this dog is neutered, he's at the age where thyroid often burns out in the absence of testosterone, so thyroid would be my very first item on my checklist.

Now, not to be harsh, but he has snapped at WAY too many people and that is 100% your fault. I will give you the first incident when you were shocked at the change in him. Beyond that, it's all on you. You are obviously putting him in situations where he is not comfortable, and since you are failing him in that aspect, by not taking charge, he is responding in his way. You need to forget how he "used" to be and learn to deal with and responsibly handle the dog you have now. 

He is clearly very uneasy if he's snapping at people on leash and that means you're failing to not only take control and communicate to him that there's no threat, but you're also failing to notice his discomfort and react accordingly. You will be responsible should he seriously injure someone and unfortunately, he's likely the one who will pay the price. It's a shame that he doesn't defer to you in situations where he is uncomfortable. He should be able to take comfort knowing you are in charge. Your task is two-fold. Regardless of what the medical exam finds, you MUST become a much much more capable handler than you are now; his life depends on it.


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

An herb very successful for some dogs is ashwagandha. I used it on very old mixed breed who was "wound a little tight" with reasonable success. He was very old at the time and didn't really live long enough to test it to the degree I'd like, but I'd still say it worked. There is a good bit of research on its use for anxiety in dogs. Give it a whirl, I say.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Yes. Ashwagandha! My first second thought...lol. First was thyroid. Totally agree with vom Eisenherz re: chemical cocktail, trauma of being shipped and in quarantine 

Ashwagandha works on the thyroid and adrenal glands. Natures xanax


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## suzibrew (Nov 9, 2014)

*thanks everyone*

Hi all, thanks for your input and your tough love. He is not neutered and was not over vaccinated, my other dog had to be revaccinated but not him. 

Lately, to be honest, he doesn't get a lot of walks in, I am terrified to take him out and I know that is not good because he can feel my anxiety.

I think in addition to getting him checked out by a vet I will start some basic training reviews for 15 minutes a day and a long night time walk (hopefully when we won't run into many people).

thanks everyone for your ideas,

I will keep checking back.

Susan


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Sounds like you've got a good plan. When I lived in town, I would often walk late at night because it was so much easier to avoid loose or not loose dogs too close, people etc.


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## AngelaA6 (Jan 20, 2013)

Would muzzling be a good idea if you're taking him out where people are just as a precaution? I've never dealt with an aggressive dog before but maybe a muzzle just as a precaution so another accident doesn't happen while you're trying to figure out what's going on with him?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I think a muzzle is a great idea. He still needs to get out without the fear of a bite. He needs excersise. He is used to a big farm to run on.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Ashwagandha: Stress Reduction, Neural Protection, and a Lot More from an Ancient Herb - Life Extension

^^^
Other studies of chronic stress support these findings. *For example, in a remarkable animal study, examination of the brains of sacrificed animals showed that 85% of the brain cells observed in the animals exposed to chronic stress showed signs of degeneration. It is this type of cellular degeneration that can lead to long-term cognitive difficulties. Amazingly, when ashwagandha was administered to chronically stressed animals, the number of degenerating brain cells was reduced by 80%!3*
In one of the most complete human clinical trials to date, researchers studied the effects of a standardized extract of ashwagandha on the negative effects of stress, including elevated levels of the stress hormone cortisol. Many of the adverse effects of stress are thought to be related to elevated levels of cortisol. The results were impressive. The participants subjectively reported increased energy, reduced fatigue, better sleep, and an enhanced sense of well-being. The participants showed several measurable improvements, including a reduction of cortisol levels up to 26%, a decline in fasting blood sugar levels, and improved lipid profiles. It would appear from this study that ashwagandha can address many of the health and psychological issues that plague today’s society


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## suzibrew (Nov 9, 2014)

I have a muzzle, will def use it. I also contacted a vet behaviorist here in Australia and will have him checked out medically then see what she thinks. Not sure how the US works since I never had this issue there but here a vet can get extra initials by doing a lot of additional course work in this field. Did a lot of research yesterday and talked to a couple local vets.

thanks for your input,
Susan


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## Juliem24 (Jan 4, 2014)

GatorBytes said:


> Ashwagandha: Stress Reduction, Neural Protection, and a Lot More from an Ancient Herb - Life Extension
> 
> ^^^
> Other studies of chronic stress support these findings. *For example, in a remarkable animal study, examination of the brains of sacrificed animals showed that 85% of the brain cells observed in the animals exposed to chronic stress showed signs of degeneration. It is this type of cellular degeneration that can lead to long-term cognitive difficulties. Amazingly, when ashwagandha was administered to chronically stressed animals, the number of degenerating brain cells was reduced by 80%!3*
> In one of the most complete human clinical trials to date, researchers studied the effects of a standardized extract of ashwagandha on the negative effects of stress, including elevated levels of the stress hormone cortisol. Many of the adverse effects of stress are thought to be related to elevated levels of cortisol. The results were impressive. The participants subjectively reported increased energy, reduced fatigue, better sleep, and an enhanced sense of well-being. The participants showed several measurable improvements, including a reduction of cortisol levels up to 26%, a decline in fasting blood sugar levels, and improved lipid profiles. It would appear from this study that ashwagandha can address many of the health and psychological issues that plague today’s society


Could you please cite the research articles?m I'd like to read it. Thanks in advance.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

LOL! I know some people that could use this....




GatorBytes said:


> Ashwagandha: Stress Reduction, Neural Protection, and a Lot More from an Ancient Herb - Life Extension
> 
> ^^^
> Other studies of chronic stress support these findings. *For example, in a remarkable animal study, examination of the brains of sacrificed animals showed that 85% of the brain cells observed in the animals exposed to chronic stress showed signs of degeneration. It is this type of cellular degeneration that can lead to long-term cognitive difficulties. Amazingly, when ashwagandha was administered to chronically stressed animals, the number of degenerating brain cells was reduced by 80%!3*
> In one of the most complete human clinical trials to date, researchers studied the effects of a standardized extract of ashwagandha on the negative effects of stress, including elevated levels of the stress hormone cortisol. Many of the adverse effects of stress are thought to be related to elevated levels of cortisol. The results were impressive. The participants subjectively reported increased energy, reduced fatigue, better sleep, and an enhanced sense of well-being. The participants showed several measurable improvements, including a reduction of cortisol levels up to 26%, a decline in fasting blood sugar levels, and improved lipid profiles. It would appear from this study that ashwagandha can address many of the health and psychological issues that plague today’s society


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