# Schutzhund and OB classes?



## duenorth (Apr 25, 2003)

Have any of you training your dogs in Schutzhund also participated in separate OB classes at the same time? I'm thinking of taking Dasko through a six-week basic OB course put on by the local kennel club, more for distraction work than anything else. He's very interested in other dogs (and also one of those slow-to-mature dogs) and I think it will be good for him, especially since it's harder to get out and about during the winter. The instructor will know that he's training in SchH and that our reason for taking part in the class might be different than those looking for basic OB.

Any opinions?


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Only one thing comes to mind for me. There are some clubs that don't allow dogs who are trained for bitework to participate in their classes. (It's an insurance thing, they say.) I wouldn't tell the instructor that you are training SchH, also. 

When I've started a new dog in classes at my kennel club, the instructor asks what we are planning to get out of the class. I just say it's for working under distraction. I (and others) use other languages than English and nobody really cares about that, either.


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## duenorth (Apr 25, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: BlackPuppyWhen I've started a new dog in classes at my kennel club, the instructor asks what we are planning to get out of the class. I just say it's for working under distraction. I (and others) use other languages than English and nobody really cares about that, either.


That's exactly what I told the woman coordinating the classes.







I mentioned that he's training in SchH and there's no problem. Fortunately, they seem to be a very open-minded club.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I do both and about the only suggestion I have for you is to be aware there are a few handling differences between OB and SchH. So long as you can keep that straight I think taking separate classes can be a good thing.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Yes, for years. Actually every dog except my first two OB dogs trained in SchH and did obedience classes. Neither the OB club I belong to or the place I usually train has a problem. Heck, we send a lot of buisiness to the one place.


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## duenorth (Apr 25, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: lhczthYes, for years. Actually every dog except my first two OB dogs trained in SchH and did obedience classes. Neither the OB club I belong to or the place I usually train has a problem. Heck, we send a lot of buisiness to the one place.


Thanks Lisa.

Do you find any particular advantages to doing both? I was hoping that the OB classes would be a good way to work on focus and control in a new and more distracting environment. Compared to a SchH field, an indoor class should be much more challenging.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I started out in regular OB classes with Keeta, then moved on to Schutzhund. Though my goal is SchH with Falkor, I am doing regular OB classes with him, for the same reasons that you are interested in doing it:

Great opportunity to work with distractions, socialization to new people, dogs, places. Fun challenges as the level 2 class I will be starting soon incorporates some agility work also, and something to do when there is 3 feet of snow on the groung and the windchill is in the -40C range! 

You could use different command words for those exercises that are different. The OB classes trainer also does Schutzhund with his dogs, so he is completely okay with me taking the classes, but using my own version of commands and also letting me skip out on some excersices if I feel it would confuse Falkor.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

The only thing I would be concerned with is putting to much control on the dog.. maybe squashing some of the dogs drives because they can't be as free as you need them to be in a class or group setting..

And a lot of this well depend on the facility, obviously!

I work for a training facility.. but what they teach in there classes would not be conducive to SchH! That's why I said it would depend on the training facility.. 

Fortunately for me since I do work there, I can work my dogs in which ever class I want and modify things so it will benefit my dogs and the sport I train in..


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

When I mentioned that we were starting Masuer in a puppy obedience class near us, the training director at the Sch club we just joined said NO. He was worried it could be too much 'control' for Masuer.

I assured him that we had told the instructor that we were raising Mauser with the idea of going into Sch and she understood that we would be ignoring the things like Bite Inhibition.









We start tomorrow morning!!


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## duenorth (Apr 25, 2003)

Thanks for the input, everyone!

Lucia - I know what you mean about the snow and wind chill, though we don't have it quite as bad as you do. But I hate to stop exposing Dasko to different things due to weather so the OB classes are a good option, especially working around other dogs which is his biggest distraction!!

Leesa - I was worried about the control issue too but it sounds like this club is very relaxed and if it doesn't suit our purpose after a class or two, we'll just chalk it up to an experiment. 

Lauri - Have fun tomorrow! The class I'm looking at is scheduled to start next Tuesday evening.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I do it for exactly those reasons. Great way to teach the pups and young dogs to work under very distracting conditions. I have also gotten ideas about how to teach some different exercises better working with VERY good AKC handlers. It is also a great way to learn to handle a dog yourself in OB. Footwork, body language and positioning, etc. You do need to find an open minded instructor who is good at what they do and uses methods that you are comfortable.


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## doxsee (Jun 14, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangWhen I mentioned that we were starting Masuer in a puppy obedience class near us, the training director at the Sch club we just joined said NO. He was worried it could be too much 'control' for Masuer.
> 
> I assured him that we had told the instructor that we were raising Mauser with the idea of going into Sch and she understood that we would be ignoring the things like Bite Inhibition.
> 
> ...


Jayda just graduated from puppy obedience. I know that a lot of SchH people don't like to put a lot of restraints on a puppy. I did discuss it with the SchH training director and we talked about which exercises she should hold off on. I kept the class fun for her. If there was an exercise I didn't teach her (such as not jumping up, or some of the leash control) I just didn't do it. I'd step to the side and play tug with Jayda. She loved it, she got so excited when we'd load up in the car every Monday night. It was a very valuable socialization experience for her.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

I thought Sch was obedience training among other things


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I found that for me it depended alot on the type of obedience that was being taught. We did a basic obedience course with Argos and it sucked a lot of drive out of him...but it was geared more towards the average family pet and not towards competition and I really didn't know what I was planning on doing with him at the time. Basically all they were looking for was compliance. It was all inductive but I found later that the laxity in what I asked initially I had to go back and fix later because I wasn't watching for competition items. For example...Sits during heeling...I allowed them to be crooked and then later had to go back and retrain them straight. I also didn't correct for crawling on the down because in my mind at the time he was down...so who cared? Well, I did when I realized that wasn't going to fly in trial and then I had to go back and retrain it for NO crawling. 

I would also watch to make sure that the obedience training occurs while the dog is in drive. This is usually not problematic if the OB course is geared towards competition but like I said I have seen a lot of pet obedience courses where they ask for compliance but at the same time try to take away drive because it's seen as unwanted behavior (Goal being a reasonably well behaved calm pet...not a crazy fast wacky SchH obedience dog)

I guess I would say as long as you keep your goal in mind for what you dog actually has to do then outside OB classes are a great way to work around distractions. I also know some really great AKC obedience people who really know what they're doing. Just make sure you get one of those!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have done alot of AKC work as well. Most of the dogs I train from the beginning do AKC, get CGCs and CDs. I lose alot of points LOL for incorrect about turns! Judges have been amused by that! Especially at the GSD specialty shows - they seem to appreciate the working drive and ability shown by mine - still take the points though LOL

I got very lucky with the AKC club I trained with. The President was one of the first AKC rally judges, and does not pattern train. Members could join any regular class going on, and there were CD and CDX/UD classes. If I took a pup to basic, I would do my own thing like focus while everyone else tried to get their dogs to heel. Off to the side, or in the middle, and Deb would just say - "Lee competes and is doing a different program" Before rally became a reality in AKC, we did combo class combining elements of Rally, OB and Agility - all my pups would learn the A Frame, little jumps, tunnels etc along with focus - the older dogs LOVED this class. If you do AKC with a group working for competition, you can learn ALOT which carries over - like correct basic position and fronts. Good trainers do random positions for exercises like recalls and motions to avoid anticipation...I learned a tremendous amount of obedience and theory working with Deb and other AKC competitors. I always suggest that my puppy owners get some basic AKC work, with qualifications as to how much heeling etc to do. Clicker classes are another thing I always encourage.

Lee


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Menlo Park insisted the people take the OB, which I thought was good. Taught before SCH training and the instructors knew what dogs were going to be doing SCH. 

It also gave a positive glint to the public about SCH dogs.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnarI thought Sch was obedience training among other things


It is. But here's one example. In our class this morning the trainer wanted us to teach the dogs not to pull on the leash. When training bitework you WANT the dog at the end of the leash, pulling. So I told her we would just skip that part and she was fine with it.

Mauser did great!!


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Hi Cheryl

I would go and watch the 1st class myself with out Dasko.
See how the class is run & most important the other dogs!!!
We passed on Puppy classes, and I would not put Little Raven in Basic OB.
She started out in Attention level 3 classes at 5 months, for 1 reason the other dogs.
Dogs at that level, were going on to Competitive Obedience, *NO lunger's or barkers!!*
Did NOT want to put her in with out of control Adult dogs in Basic OB, did that with Deejay will never to it again.


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