# Bun elevated creatinine normal



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I don't have the numbers for the creatinine, I didn't have anything to write with when the vet called and I could only remember the abnormal one









BUN = 30 (normal range = 6-25)

He suggested retesting in a few weeks, that it could be just dehydreation.

Anything I need to do??


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## M&J (Nov 16, 2002)

BUN can fluctuate after a hearty meal. It's when creatnine is elevated we worry.
Hold back a meal before the next testing.
Good Luck!!


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

http://www.broadwayvh.com/site/view/83223_LaboratoryAssessmentDescriptions.pml

The Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN) is elevated. This is a by-product of protein metabolism that is cleared by the kidneys. Elevations can either indicate kidney disease, or be from dehydration, a very recent high protein meal or severe muscle trauma. Since the creatinine and urine specific gravity are both normal, kidney disease is unlikely. More rarely, gastrointestinal hemorrhage, tetracycline or corticosteroid use could also cause this finding.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I wouldn't worry about it. Retest in a few weeks (and make sure he's well hydrated and hasn't eaten a steak recently) just to be sure.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

how often is blood drawn and is this the first time BUN is high?

How long before was a meal eaten?

Any changes in water consumption?


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Yup. What Ruth said. 

BUN levels can start to creep upward as dogs age, and while Mr. Dante is still a kid in our hearts, he is starting to approach established adulthood. (The cutoff for seniorhood is what? 7 or 8?). Even if his BUN stays on the high side, I wouldn't be too worried as long as his creatinine remains firmly in the normal range. Some dogs just hang out in the high 20s, 30s for years, even a decade and nothing ever changes. 

Just make a note of it, and if it doesn't come down, start getting his levels checked every 4-6 months as a precaution.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Lets see....
Last blood draw would have been in 2008 - all normal
Previous meal was about 7:00-8:00 am and blood draw was about 11:00 am
No changes in water consumption

Dante's almost a senior? Holy crap, how did that happen








Man time flies!!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

***BUN (blood urea nitrogen) indicates kidney function. An increase blood level is called azotemia and can be caused by kidney, liver, intestinal, and heart disease, urethral obstruction, shock, and dehydration.
***
From here: http://www.belmontshorevet.com/images/labwork.doc

I wonder if Giardia can cause an increase in BUN?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Creatine indicates true kidney function. BUN fluctuates due to hydration and diet. A high BUN level without a high Creatine level is not something that should be overly concerning. I really don't think Barb needs to worry about this right now. 

Dealing with Cleo and CRF I have to say that I have read over and over again that with kidneys, Creatine is a truer indicator of kidney function. 

From http://www.vet.uga.edu/VPP/clerk/mckee/index.php

"BUN concentration is most often measured to assess kidney function. It is important to realize that many different disease conditions alter BUN concentration but may or may not alter renal function. Therefore, BUN concentration should be compared with creatinine concentration and urine specific gravity to properly evaluate kidney function."


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I know with my mom who has renal failure that they really pay attention to the Creatine.

I'm really not worried - just first time Dante's had blood work come back "amiss"!! But of course, first thing I thought of was that I had to come here and get the board's input









I'll retest in a few weeks when they do another fecal for the Giardia (Thanks for the tip about the Kocci Ruth - I'm going to give that a try first)


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Just kinda interesting - the little blurb on the chronic form of giardia lists dehydration as one of the symptoms (without diarrhea). 

http://diarrhea.emedtv.com/giardia-lamblia/giardia-lamblia-symptoms.html 

Chances are the BUN is nothing, just got me curious.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Well now, isn't that interesting!! 

I wonder just how dehydrated they have to be to have the BUN elevate. Dante's skin snaps right back.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I know they always check skin snappiness. But I check for tackiness of the gums too. If gums are sticky, I consider my dogs dehydrated, which is often before the skin stops being snappy. It's one of the super cautious







dog owner things I do. The vets ask me how I catch things so quickly. 

It's all about the gums.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Oh, checked that too, no tackiness in our household

















Got a call today the Distemper and Parvo titers came back as "protected" so we're good for at least another year.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Dante is in today for a teeth cleaning (He's got those ugly teeth genes) and his follow-up blood work.









And a follow-up fecal for Giardia








http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1191227&page=13#Post1191227


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Any news yet?


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Nope, got the call a bit ago that they were done with his teeth, he has a couple of molars (one on each side) that appear to have defects (missing enamel) but it's the same teeth and in the same exact spot on both sides (and was noted in his last dental) so no biggie there.

So they were waking him up - I have an appointment at 7:00 tonight to pick him up.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

It's always good to get that call though that they are done and all is well. Let us know how the bloodwork looks!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

It is, no matter that he's young and healthy I don't take general lightly!!

Thanks for asking!!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I have to say, it's very odd not having Dante here! I keep looking for him


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Isn't it strange? Max has spent the night away from here only when he bloated. It was so odd. And Indy? I don't think she has ever spent a night "away from home". So even when they are at the vet for an extended "day stay", the house just doesn't seem right.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Bun results, The Good, The Bad and The Funny*

*<span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>The Good:</span>* BUN was back to normal - didn't even ask for #'s and Giardia Antigen was negative, so both resoved on their own. 

*<span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>The Bad:</span>* It's been diarrhea zone here









When Dante had the MRI for his puffy hind leg he had diarrhea afterwards (wasn't pretty, it was in my Explorer on our way home) but since he'd never reacted to a general before I assumed (I know and it made an 







of me!) that it was the contrast dye that caused it.

I guess not! I fed him a 1/2 cup of food Wed night (He usually gets a cup and a half) and it was blow out. So I fasted him until last night when I gave him a large spoon of rice with a tiny bit (I mean very tiny) bit of canned food just to flavor the rice. Blow out. So we're fasting for another 24 hours, I'll thaw some chicken I have in the freezer and we'll try again. I of course am giving Phytomucil.

*<span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>The Funny:</span> *When I picked Dante up the tech said she was surprised at how alert and active he was. That most dogs are much more sedate. When she brought Dante to me he simply walked up to me and put his head between my legs rather than his usual exuberant "I'm so happy to see you again" reaction to seeing me. When I walked him out to pay he walked very quietly beside me, no wobbling or anything but very quiet. In the car he laid right down and went to sleep. All I could think was that she was obviously not there when I took him in and she's obviously never worked with him before if she thought that was alert and active


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTIsn't it strange? Max has spent the night away from here only when he bloated. It was so odd. And Indy? I don't think she has ever spent a night "away from home". So even when they are at the vet for an extended "day stay", the house just doesn't seem right.


Dante's been away several times - often when I board it means a night without him on one end. It however has been quite a while since I've needed to board him and a long time since he's needed to be at the vet without me. 

I'm so happy to have him back home


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I am so relieved that Dante's back home with you/1 Yep, he redefines active, huh?







LOL he's such a good boy, Barb! I am sorry about the squirts. Can you ask your vet for something to help calm the gut?

Can you get some slippery elm capsules?

Hugs to you for going through this, and extra scritches for sweetie-boy Dante!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I'm glad Dante is home, but sorry about the







issues. His BUN was barely elevated at all - the difference between 25 and 30 shouldn't be too much of a concern, especially with a normal creatinine. When Cassidy came back with elevated BUN on Deramaxx it was somewhere in the 50s or 60s. And even that wasn't all that high. I had no idea how high that number could go, so I asked the vet and he said it could get into the hundreds with kidney failure. And once we took her off Deramaxx and retested her, she was back down into the normal range. What Lori said is exactly what I was told - that "normal" for some dogs is not the same as normal for every dog, so very slight variations like that are not necessarily a concern. A dog could live for years in a very healthy state with numbers just a tad off normal. 

Cassidy's creatinine was fine, and we also had a urine specific gravity test, which was normal, so he was fairly sure that discontinuing the Deramaxx would take care of it.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Thanks Patti - I use Phytomucil: Marshmallow Root, Slippery Elm Inner Bark, Plantain and Licorice. Heck I've even used it for myself!

Debbie - I wasn't too worried about the BUN after talking to folks here and other places but of course there was always something







at me so I'm very glad it came back normal. I'm also VERY happy about the Giardia - that he was able to ward that off himself is huge! Perhaps his immune system isn't as poor as I thought it was!


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## AK GSD (Feb 27, 2008)

Glad to read you had good test results. I have been curious since you posted a month or so back about his previous giardia test results. 

Go Ducks!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Glad to hear that all is well on the blood tests!

Anesthesia has the opposite effect on my dogs - stops 'em up for about 3 days. How odd. The Phytomucil looks good. In fact, I've been trying some slippery elm here to help counter reactions to meds, and it seems to give both dogs loose stools. I do have some marshmellow root and licorice - might be worth experimenting to see if the phyto would work better. I have such "opposite" dogs. 

Last time Indy was under, the vet commented on how well she came out of it. Not in terms of activity, but in terms of some of the whining and vocalization they do when they come out of it. Turns out Indy was having a delayed reaction and made all those vocalizations at home. It sounded awful!

Glad Dante is home where he belongs!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Lisa - I wonder if giving Dante the Phytoumucil before going under might help next time


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Just saw this. Glad to see Mr. Dante is home with a shiny smile.









My boys get runny poop just thinking about sedation, so I'm not surprised by Dante's reaction. Bland diet was always the key to resolving that... and probiotics, since the diarrhea seems to evict all the good colonic tenants...


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E. Thanks Patti - I use Phytomucil: Marshmallow Root, Slippery Elm Inner Bark, Plantain and Licorice. Heck I've even used it for myself!


Just looked up Indy's known allergies, plantain is on the list. Who woulda thunk?

I'm thinking that Max might be allergic to Elm, it's the only thing I started lately, and he's licking his paws like crazy, and the skin on his stomach is pretty red.

sigh.


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTI'm thinking that Max might be allergic to Elm, it's the only thing I started lately, and he's licking his paws like crazy, and the skin on his stomach is pretty red. sigh.


CRUD! I never made the connection between Slippery Elm and the Elm tree that LJ is allergic to. That would explain the red skin on her stomach and her itchy chin.


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

> Quote:Last time Indy was under, the vet commented on how well she came out of it. Not in terms of activity, but in terms of some of the whining and vocalization they do when they come out of it. Turns out Indy was having a delayed reaction and made all those vocalizations at home. It sounded awful!


Isai who is 10 had the same thing happen when he had his "crown" x-rayed recently. They like to get them awake and home asap and we was whining etc the whole way home. It freaked me out. Post anesthesia I use rescue remedy rotated with the homeopathic phosphorous (30c) for a couple hours to help the body (especially the lungs) clear the anesthesia. It really helps!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

GS Mom, it really is awful, isn't it? I will have to remember what you used - anything to speed up that process is helpful!!

LJsMom, we just can't win, can we? I googled "slippery elm" and allergy, and the connection came right up


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

That's a total bummer about the Slippery Elm, Phytomucil has helped me through some rough times with Dante!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Yeah, Max is a mess right now







He's tearing up his paws - hope it didn't set his PF back any (digestive stuff will do that).


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Dante just has his second small meal of the day - first was about 4 hours ago and had no issues. This time I forgot to give the Phytomucil ahead of time like I usually do so gave it just after he finished. I think we're over the hump here


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Well shoot, just noticed he's licking the spot where he was shaved for the IV







If I remember right I used coconut oil on it last time and that helped


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Ooh, I bet the coconut oil feels good. I always use aloe vera gel that has been kept in the fridge so it's cool. I bet liquid vit e might help also.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

back to bouncy poops.

What a sight, I've got Dante out on a long line and I'm shining a flashlight at his butt









I have a bit more rice and chicken, but both meals today have included some kibble. Tomorrow morning I'll finish up the rice mixture with kibble and then tomorrow night we'll go straight kibble.

_*Whew*_ I'm so glad that's over!!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Good boy Dante! We need you in top shape for our upcoming visit.


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

Super news!


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Good going Dante!!!


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