# Need advice



## Mavrick6512 (Jul 9, 2007)

I am very interested in getting in to Sch. We have a 7month old female LC, who has tons of energy and confidence. We co-own her with our breeder whom we got our 10month old male (whom we also co-own). I want to get some titles for them and i dont want to wait to get training done. 

I was wondering what it costs to do this type of sport? Can you just do the obidence part or do you have to do all the bite work to get a title?
How old do they have to be before you can start training?
If I, do do bite work, will that make her more protective of me and want to bite everyone who makes fast moves? Because she LOVES everyone and i dont want her to become worried about people... Is it the kind of sport where they know when its game time or are they always that way???

SOrry for all the questions. I just find it extremely exciting to watch videos of it and wouldlike to get involved in it. 

Thank you.


----------



## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

To obtain a SCH title the dog must pass certain scores of tracking, obedience and protection. The dog also must pass the minimum scores in tracking and OB before testing for the protection phase. All three phases are done usually on the same day at the same trial. 

Club fees vary from club to club.


----------



## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Costs vary. It's also depends on the setup. Some trainers do not work within a club and charge per session...I've seen it go from $20-$60 a dog for all three phases for one session. I have heard of more. Clubs can be a cheaper way to go depending on the structure of the club since you pay an annual club fee. But you have to look for a good club. I have seen clubs start out good but then they lose their helper and then there's no one to work the dogs. 

You can just do obedience and tracking and there are titles for just those parts TR1 and OB1 etc., although, my dogs love protection the most. 

I think if bitework is taught properly you end up with a dog who knows a game. You may add some seriousness in later but all within a specific context of circumstances. I can yell "Packen" all I want right now...but without an obvious target (guy w/sleeve) my dog won't know what to do. It could be trained, but since I don't plan on needing a personal protection dog, I won't change the circumstances for my dog. My dog is super friendly and remained that way. 

Although, I will say that it depends on the dog. Sometimes to encourage a behavior/drive on the field I found I had to let go of some of your pet obedience for awhile. (ie. Jumping on people is okay, pulling on lead, etc.) Sometimes you have to let them go a little wild before you rein them back in.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Here's a basic rundown of the costs for Mauser's Sch training:

Club membership - $200
Training fees - $20 each session (we go 2-3 times a month)
Gas - about $20 each trip (it's a 2 hour ride each way)

Various training aids (leashes, toys, harness, etc ) - probably hit around $150 - 200 when finished

It is NOT an inexpensive sport.

If all you want to do is obedience, why not just go AKC obedience? Or do the SDA obedience, or UCk or Rally.



> Quote:I want to get some titles for them and i dont want to wait to get training done.


Training for titles takes TIME. Sometimes LOTS of time. We've started training Mauser now but he can't even enter a trial for his BH (beginning level obedience) until he is 12 months old.


----------



## KJenkins (Aug 29, 2005)

Actually that is 15 months to enter for a BH.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

> Quote:I was wondering what it costs to do this type of sport?


Our club dues is $100/year plus $20/month for 10 months and then we put in another $3/session (2X per week for some of us) when we train at the horse barn. This helps pay for the lights and heat. On top of that you will have equipment, trials, traveling, treats, clothing for all weather conditions. Not inexpensive. 

The biggest issue for most people is the time commitment. You MUST put in the time for training, not just on club day, if you want to title.



> Quote:Can you just do the obidence part or do you have to do all the bite work to get a title?


SchH involves bitework. You can get obedience and tracking titles, but you must do bitework if you want actual Schutzhund titles. 



> Quote: If I, do do bite work, will that make her more protective of me and want to bite everyone who makes fast moves? Because she LOVES everyone and i dont want her to become worried about people... Is it the kind of sport where they know when its game time or are they always that way???


SchH training will not change your dog. A sound dog will still be sound. A social dog will still be social. Below is a picture of my female, Nike, with one of our helpers. She is a very serious dog in the work, but also a sound dog in temperament. They know the difference. 












> Quote:How old do they have to be before you can start training?


8 weeks.


----------



## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: AshleynJustin I want to get some titles for them and i dont want to wait to get training done.


I had to read it twice, but for what I understood is not that the OP don't want to put time in training, but that he/she don't want to waste more time to start with it.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> Quote:I just find it extremely exciting to watch videos of it and wouldlike to get involved in it.


Haha! That was like me! The first time I saw bitework, I thought to myself: "I want Keeta to do that!!"

Costs can vary greatly depending on were you are and how your club is organized. I know in Canada, yearly dues may be as low as $100 a year, to thousands of dollar a year (big city club, private land, large club building, famour-big-name trainers). There is some equipment to buy, the big stuff like sleeves and jumps are usually made available by the club. In addition, we usually get together and pitch in extra montly to rent a horse arena for winter training. 

Your dogs will first need to get their BH, wich includes an obedience part and a temperament/traffic test. Minimum age for a BH is 15 months.

Afterwards, you can try for a SchH title, or get tracking and obedience titles seperatly. As others have said, even if you have OB or TR titles, you will still have to do the tracking, obedience and protecition phases all in one day and pass all three to obtain a Schutzhund title. It may well take about two years of training to get your Schutzhund I, but the journey is so much fun!

Schutzund will not change your dogs. They will know the difference between a decoy witha sleeve on a training field, and other environments. If Keeta runs up to a random person in public making sudden movements, it would be only because she is hoping that this person will fuss over her and pet her. If anything, the training has done wonders to build her confidence and teach her self-control. 

You can start shaping and encouraging the behaviours you want for Schutzhund in itty-bitty little puppies (as Laurie is doing with Mauser), or you can start with older dogs who have the correct temperament and drives. (Keeta was about two when I started with her). 

The best thing to do is to find a club nearby and have your dogs evaluated to see if they are suitable for bitework. But even if either yourself or the dogs are not comfortable with the bitework portion of the training, many people still join Schutzhund clubs for the Obedience and tracking opportunities. 

7 and 10 months are very good ages for your dogs to get started.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: AshleynJustinI am very interested in getting in to Sch. We have a 7month old female LC, who has tons of energy and confidence. We co-own her with our breeder whom we got our 10month old male (whom we also co-own). I want to get some titles for them and i dont want to wait to get training done.
> 
> I was wondering what it costs to do this type of sport? Can you just do the obidence part or do you have to do all the bite work to get a title?
> How old do they have to be before you can start training?
> ...


From one SchH newbie to another! It currently costs me a $100 one-time initiation fee and $125 per year, every January. That is CHEAP compared to most clubs but our club is new, we aren't *just* a SchH club (we do German conformation, CGC, etc) and most of our dogs are young and untitled so we don't need a lot of $$$ for our own equipment yet. Later on we will probably charge more.

You cannot get full SchH titles without all three phases. You can get the BH which is a basic obedience, heeling, and temperament type test. I don't know about SchH but for SDA you can do the FO (like the BH) and then do it again off lead for an OB1 which is just the obedience phase of their first title.

We started training at 8 weeks but it's not necessary. Some dogs in our club are just starting at 6 months, a year.... my female is 5 years and is just starting but she will not be doing bitework.

No, bitework training will not make your dog reactive or aggressive. If your dog already IS reactive or aggressive, that's one thing, and doing bitework and serious training probably won't work for a dog that doesn't have a solid temperament.


----------



## Mavrick6512 (Jul 9, 2007)

thank you guys for your advice, it has been really helpfull! i am trying to find a club here and so far the closet one is and hour and a half away and i have a 87 suburban that isnt the greatest. ahah. soi am trying to find one closer. Hopefully! i get butterflies thinking about doing it! hehe 

I would be totally comfortable doing bitework. I was unsure if it affected the dogs "friendliness".

thank you LicanAntai , i sometimes have a hard time writing things out so everyone can understand it. But, yes, that is what i meant, i dont want her to get too old to do it. But from what i understand, it doesnt exactly matter how old. It matters what their temperment is like.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Considering the size of the state of Montana compared to it's population, I think you're lucky to have a club that close.









An hour and a half drive really isn't much by SchH standards. I'd guess it's about average. Many people drive a lot further than that for SchH training!


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Chris is right. Both of us have driven that far for training. I still drive 3 hours once a month in the summer to train. This is pretty common.


----------



## Mavrick6512 (Jul 9, 2007)

Oh, really?? Wow. i guess i need to get a more reliable vehicle then haha. 

Or a second job.


----------



## Mavrick6512 (Jul 9, 2007)

Ihczth, where abouts do you live in MI? I was born and raised in Flint, and Montrose.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I am SW of Ann Arbor about 20 miles.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Right now I drive 1.75 hours each way and when the weather gets better I'm fixin' to drive out to Chris or Lisa's if they will have me once or twice and that's going to be 3 hours probably, either that or I'd like to go to a club near Chicago once or twice, which would be 2 hours there and 4 back (b/c of time change).

It's 30-45 minutes each way to my "regular" club where we go 1-3 times a week.


----------

