# Looking for female black and tan pups in PA



## HenrysGSDS (Jun 24, 2013)

Will pay 750 dollars max.


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

Good luck with that. 


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

Look under greenfield puppies.com. Then choose German Shepherd


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

But make sure you do your homework & research. Most are on Amish farms & you can get a great OFA hip certified puppy (the parents) but visit, ask questions, see the parents. PA has a lot of issues with puppy mills


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

How about supporting a rescue instead of a puppy mill? When you only want to pay a minimal amount, rescue is a better option. Supporting a miller isn't something this board takes kindly to.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i don't think so.



MedicPup said:


> But make sure you do your homework & research.
> 
> >>>> Most are on Amish farms & you can get a great OFA hip certified puppy (the parents)<<<<<
> 
> ...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

where did you see anything about OFA, titles, pedigree on
greenfield.com?



MedicPup said:


> But make sure you do your homework & research.
> 
> >>>>>> Most are on Amish farms & you can get a great OFA hip certified puppy (the parents)<<<<<<
> 
> ...


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

When you click on the puppy it gives you the parents name. Some are OFA hip certified. Obviously they should come with documentation & will be more money. There are reputable breeders, & you can run into puppy mills anywhere. You have to do your homework. I have 2 friends who found great purebreds (1 a boxer & 1 a GSD) thru this for cheaper than you would pay in NY. But if you don't get to see the parents, if its unkept, ect then don't get a puppy from there. That goes for anywhere you get a dog. You could pay $2000 or $500 at a puppy mill, or a reputable breeder. 


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

And greenfields just does advertising for the breeders. You need to contact the breeder yourself. 


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## UnlimitedGSD (Oct 16, 2012)

that site is very scary! yikes, I would not look for a puppy there!


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Welcome to the forums.

The likelihood of you finding a well bred GSD puppy from a reputable breeder for under 750$ is very, very unlikely. Onyx'girl is absolutely correct; if you aren't willing to start your price at 1,000$, then go for a rescue where you'll pay a nomimal fee and get a dog that is a good match for you.

What type of research have you done into GSDs?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Your previous postings of dogs you were looking at, were 'iffy' as well.

Greenfield looks like a broker of some sort, they probably get a cut of any puppy sold.

No reputable breeder would advertise on a site like that.

OFA does not guarantee a good puppy. 

IF your top dollar is 750, what if you came up with a medical emergency that would cost you a 1000 bucks to treat? Would you be able to pay that?? Most places won't take on a medical emergency unless the payment is there.

Your best bet is to go the rescue route as well..A little older puppy/dog that's been evaluated by a rescue / needs a home.

Reading back on your postings, it just sounds like your looking for a "cheap" dog, which is fine, but that initial cost is "nothing" compared to the cost over a lifetime of a dog..


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## Roemly's Mama (Apr 3, 2013)

What do you want in a dog? What is the lure of a GSD? Just curious.


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## Odin24 (Jun 29, 2007)

Why don't you look in the classified section of local newspapers. Most are online now. Check out the pups/breeders there. You can get nice dogs by going this route that won't cost an arm and a leg. Some will be OFA certified, some will not. None will have the working titles the people on here insist on. But, there are breeders on this site that sell dogs for big money that don't have working titles or OFA certs either. Dogs with good temperament that are healthy can be found.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

HenrysGSDS said:


> Will pay 750 dollars max.


Before you call or look at any breeders seriously you need to make sure you take the time to read all the info on these sites:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...nk-how-tell-good-breeder-website-bad-one.html

There are SO many puppy mills out there (Amish run puppy mills) PLUS major health and temperment (fear? aggression?) that an adorable GSD puppy at 8 weeks old can be an expensive NIGHTMARE by 9 months.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Odin24 said:


> Why don't you look in the classified section of local newspapers. Most are online now. Check out the pups/breeders there. You can get nice dogs by going this route that won't cost an arm and a leg. Some will be OFA certified, some will not. None will have the working titles the people on here insist on. But, there are breeders on this site that sell dogs for big money that don't have working titles or OFA certs either. Dogs with good temperament that are healthy can be found.


Dogs that are sold on CL or in newspapers are either oops litters, potential puppy millers, or BYBs. The likelihood of getting a dog with a sound temperament and the likelihood of good health for its lifetime is slim...not saying a decent dog hasn't come from a BYB...but why would you take that risk? 

I'd rather spend 1500$ on a dog now and minimal vet care over its lifetime versus 400$ now and 6k for a total hip replacement before the dog is 5, 500$ a month for a trainer/behaviorist due to genetic temperament problems, and 250$ a month for special food and medication because the dog has allergies. 

Reason why pups are so expensive is because reputable breeders work very hard to breed dogs that don't have the issues listed above. Not saying a well bred pup can't turn up with behavior issues, HD, or allergies...but the cards are stacked in your favor that the dog has sound temperament and health. 

Save up the money to get a well bred GSD...you will never regret it.

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## Odin24 (Jun 29, 2007)

I have one of those $1500 dogs from a 'reputable' breeder on this forum. Temperament is awful, hip is bad, dog just turned one year old. I have an $800 dog from the classifieds that is everything the 'reputable' dog is not. Don't put all BYB's in the same bucket. Price does not guarantee a 'perfect' dog. What I can guarantee you, many of you would be very, very surprised if you knew who the 'reputable' breeder is. Can we say 'catfish' on the forum could be more accurate. Everytthing that is written may not be true.l


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Odin24 said:


> I have one of those $1500 dogs from a 'reputable' breeder on this forum. Temperament is awful, hip is bad, dog just turned one year old. I have an $800 dog from the classifieds that is everything the 'reputable' dog is not. Don't put all BYB's in the same bucket.* Price does not guarantee a 'perfect' dog*.


Isn't that the truth. Why so many fantastic dogs are gotten from shelters and rescues.

That said, going with a responsible breeder (and all that involves) certainly helps support someone who is TRYING to do the right thing and better the breed and educating themselves to do better with each litter. And if I'm going to spend any of my $$$$$ on a puppy it's going to be with one of those breeders.

:wub:


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Odin24 said:


> I have one of those $1500 dogs from a 'reputable' breeder on this forum. Temperament is awful, hip is bad, dog just turned one year old. I have an $800 dog from the classifieds that is everything the 'reputable' dog is not. Don't put all BYB's in the same bucket. Price does not guarantee a 'perfect' dog. What I can guarantee you, many of you would be very, very surprised if you knew who the 'reputable' breeder is. Can we say 'catfish' on the forum could be more accurate. Everytthing that is written may not be true.l


 
I never said it wasn't possible for all the negatives to come out of a well bred dog, nor that every BYB/Puppy Mill/Oops Puppy is a horrible ball of medical problems and a tempermental disaster.

All I said was, going with a good, reputable breeder helps to stack the odds in your favor of a "solid dog" while the puppy from CL has the possibility to be a disaster in the making.


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## Roemly's Mama (Apr 3, 2013)

Odin24 said:


> I have one of those $1500 dogs from a 'reputable' breeder on this forum. Temperament is awful, hip is bad, dog just turned one year old. I have an $800 dog from the classifieds that is everything the 'reputable' dog is not. Don't put all BYB's in the same bucket. Price does not guarantee a 'perfect' dog. What I can guarantee you, many of you would be very, very surprised if you knew who the 'reputable' breeder is. Can we say 'catfish' on the forum could be more accurate. Everytthing that is written may not be true.l


You should have a health and temperament guarantee, no? If not, then I suggest a different breeder. You are correct, $$$ does not necessarily mean a perfect dog. I've had a few from shelters that have been pretty remarkable and healthy thru their lives.


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## Odin24 (Jun 29, 2007)

Oh, there's a contract. Breeder won't honor it. All I got back when I emailed was a 'so sorry'. That is why I advise people that the contracts are a waste unless you have the means to take the breeder to court. Most peoples money would be better spent buying pet insurance than relying on most breeders to honor contracts.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm starting to smell a troll with the OP....


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## Roemly's Mama (Apr 3, 2013)

Odin24 said:


> Oh, there's a contract. Breeder won't honor it. All I got back when I emailed was a 'so sorry'. That is why I advise people that the contracts are a waste unless you have the means to take the breeder to court. Most peoples money would be better spent buying pet insurance than relying on most breeders to honor contracts.


I'm so sorry that happened to you that really stinks. The people that I deal with go above and beyond the contracts. Good luck in the future.


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## Odin24 (Jun 29, 2007)

LoveEcho said:


> I'm starting to smell a troll with the OP....


Sorry dear, I am not a troll. Follow my prior posts if you will. I have the honor of owning a shy, fearful, reactive dog bred by a 20,000 plus post contributor to this forum.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Odin, she wasn't saying "you" were a troll,,she was saying the "OP", which is original poster


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Odin24 said:


> Sorry dear, I am not a troll. Follow my prior posts if you will. I have the honor of owning a shy, fearful, reactive dog bred by a 20,000 plus post contributor to this forum.


Dude, OP= Original Poster. As in, the person who made the ORIGINAL POST. Don't be snotty.


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## Odin24 (Jun 29, 2007)

Sorry, my apologies. I doubt the original poster was a troll. Many people post here hoping to find good breeders that are within their budgets. Unfortunately, they are steered away from the possibility of finding a nice dog unless they are willing to spend more money then necessary in my opinion. BYB's don't guarantee a bad dog and expensive breeders don't guarantee a good dog.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

It's definitely not the money for me, I also believe there are nice dogs to be found under 1000 bucks. Just have to do your homework.. I personally don't know of any, but I'm sure they are out there.

Read some of the OP's past threads,,you may get an idea of what they've been looking at..

And your right, there is NO guarantee with a living breathing thing, even tho you may get a piece of paper saying so..


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Odin24 said:


> Sorry, my apologies. I doubt the original poster was a troll. Many people post here hoping to find good breeders that are within their budgets. Unfortunately, they are steered away from the possibility of finding a nice dog unless they are willing to spend more money then necessary in my opinion. BYB's don't guarantee a bad dog and expensive breeders don't guarantee a good dog.


All five posts are basically him posting puppy mill ads, stiring up a bunch of stuff, and then never replying again. 

There are plenty of threads about BYB vs not.

I also believe you can get a great dog from a hobby breeder for not-big-bucks. Absolutely. As Diane said, it's all about research. I have the "honor" of owning a fearful, shy, insecure dog from a backyard breeder with "really nice parents" owned by a "really nice guy." There's so much more than just calling a number in the paper, even if you're going the "hobby breeder" route (I believe there is a huge distinction between BYB and Hobby Breeder).


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## ndirishfan1975 (Jun 29, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> All five posts are basically him posting puppy mill ads, stiring up a bunch of stuff, and then never replying again.
> 
> There are plenty of threads about BYB vs not.
> 
> I also believe you can get a great dog from a hobby breeder for not-big-bucks. Absolutely. As Diane said, it's all about research. I have the "honor" of owning a fearful, shy, insecure dog from a backyard breeder with "really nice parents" owned by a "really nice guy." There's so much more than just calling a number in the paper, even if you're going the "hobby breeder" route (I believe there is a huge distinction between BYB and Hobby Breeder).


Totally agree with the hobby breeder vs BYB sentiment. Our pup is from what I would consider a hobby breeder. She seeks to find a good quality sire and breeds at most once a year. She loves GSD and I wouldn't be surprised if in time she becomes more than a hobby breeder when her time availability would allow it.

With that being said though....her pups were more than $750


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Odin, I'm sorry the breeder of your dog has basically written you off It leaves a really bad taste in my mouth, especially with an 8 month old dog. Makes me wonder how many people buy their dogs , end up with issues and are stuck like you've been and they continue to breed 

I hope you can manage your dogs issues..

Sorry to go OT here.


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

Odin24 said:


> I have one of those $1500 dogs from a 'reputable' breeder on this forum. Temperament is awful, hip is bad, dog just turned one year old. I have an $800 dog from the classifieds that is everything the 'reputable' dog is not. Don't put all BYB's in the same bucket. Price does not guarantee a 'perfect' dog. What I can guarantee you, many of you would be very, very surprised if you knew who the 'reputable' breeder is. Can we say 'catfish' on the forum could be more accurate. Everytthing that is written may not be true.l


This is my point. The price doesn't have anything to do with what kind of puppy you get. Out where I live in NY everything is more expensive- you aren't even getting a puppy for $1000, out here even bad puppy stores charge $2000. I went upstate for my puppy to a breeder where a lot of police departments get their dogs (my husband is a cop so I have an in) & only paid $1100. The same dog would be over $2000 where I live

I have a friend who paid $3000 for a purebred GSD a few years ago, the dog was dead before he hit 1 year because of medical issues he came with. No matter where you get a dog you have to do your homework, see the parents, & even that doesn't mean it will work out because not all "breeders" honor their contracts. Just because you don't feel like paying a huge price for a dog doesn't mean you can't take care of it. I could afford to pay $3000, but it would never happen even though my husband & I make a very good living.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with that as well, I probably could afford to pay 3 grand for a puppy, but I won't. He/She better spit quarters for that price

And I agree it depends on the area..Here in CT things aren't cheap either, but then again, I can count on one hand who I would even think of buying a dog from


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

And BTW I posted about greenfields because I have 2 friends that I work with who got puppies that way, & they both had good experiences. But I also said that you have to do your homework & make sure you see the parents, & if the place isn't clean, or the animals don't look taken care of, don't get a puppy. And that goes for anywhere you get a dog, you have to use your brain. It doesn't mean I promote puppy mills, I actually said to be careful cause PA has puppy mill issues. But that can happen anywhere. I think puppy mills are awful & those people should be treated the way the dogs are. But I also think "reputable breeders" who breed the American GSD with the sloped backs (which there are a lot of) are awful. Those dogs have huge problems but it's ok if it's a "reputable breeder" who charges thousands of dollars for their puppies. 

I was giving the person an option that could be different. People are going to buy puppies from bad places no matter what I say if they really don't care. And not everyone wants to go to a shelter for a puppy, especially if they want something specific. All my animals my entire adult life have been rescues (my last dog we even saved off the streets of Brooklyn where he was obviously homeless & abused), but this time I didn't want to adopt, my husband & I wanted something specific, & were willing to pay for what we want. There are plenty of horror stories from shelters also.


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

And FYI the breeder that my friend got her boxer from via greenfields not only did a credit check on them, but needed work verifications for her & her husband, & they had to bring something that proves there residence (they brought their utility bill) & also a copy of their tax bill to prove they owned their house. I'm not saying all the breeders are like this via this site, but it's an example of how price doesn't mean anything. They don't charge $2000 for their puppies but they do care about where they go. So I take offense that I support puppy mills or are pushing them. Again, it's another option.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

MedicPup said:


> And FYI the breeder that my friend got her boxer from via greenfields not only did a credit check on them, but needed work verifications for her & her husband, & they had to bring something that proves there residence (they brought their utility bill) & also a copy of their tax bill to prove they owned their house. I'm not saying all the breeders are like this via this site, but it's an example of how price doesn't mean anything. They don't charge $2000 for their puppies but they do care about where they go. So I take offense that I support puppy mills or are pushing them. Again, it's another option.


I would *never* give another person like that access such personal information!  That's ridiculous!


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

Shade said:


> I would *never* give another person like that access such personal information!  That's ridiculous!


A lot of shelters as well as breeders want that also. They want to make sure the animal is really going to a good home. I remember when I got my last cat I was shocked. I figured they wanted a few personal references like in previous years- but they wanted everything to prove who I really was, where I live, & that I can really afford the lifelong responsibility of having an animal. They even checked up after to make sure I fixed my kitty. I remember thinking that they should do stuff like this before people are allowed to have children!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Not sure if this will work: Pet Search Results: Adoptable German Shepherd Pets in Sparta, NJ: Petfinder

But a lot of cute mix and some PB pups. 

Not necessarily to be "guard dogs" or anything like that - it can be worth it to pay a few hundred dollars more to get a dog from a good breeding program where they understand what they are putting together and what it will produce (a live grenade with a loose pin or a solid tank). Heck, cliffson is in NJ I think. Can't beat that for knowledge! 

Of course, rescue dogs may only cost a bit, but the same parts can break on them just like any other dog, and they require the same kind of repairs.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

MedicPup said:


> A lot of shelters as well as breeders want that also. They want to make sure the animal is really going to a good home. I remember when I got my last cat I was shocked. I figured they wanted a few personal references like in previous years- but they wanted everything to prove who I really was, where I live, & that I can really afford the lifelong responsibility of having an animal. They even checked up after to make sure I fixed my kitty. I remember thinking that they should do stuff like this before people are allowed to have children!


My whole family is in rescue and have adopted animals from multiple rescues and shelters and also foster. We've been asked for personal and vet references, screenings include a home visit and interviews but as for personal information like tax information, bills, and credit checks have never been asked for and personally I would refuse to provide it. If you rent, a phone call from the landlord should absolutely be required so that they are aware you're bringing a new animal onto their property

I would also refuse to adopt from somewhere that doesn't ask for references, I want them to check into backgrounds so that the animal truly does go into an appropriate home. I want them asking questions regarding everyday life and what my expectations are for the new animal, and to want to meet my current animals so that they see how they're cared for.

Oh, and as for the breeder that I got Delgado from. Again, we spent hours both in email and in person talking before he was brought home but again, personal information like that was never asked for


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

post what dogs are OFA, titled, lineage or pm me.



doggiedad said:


> where did you see anything about OFA, titles, pedigree on
> greenfield.com?





MedicPup said:


> When you click on the puppy it gives you the parents name. Some are OFA hip certified. Obviously they should come with documentation & will be more money. There are reputable breeders, & you can run into puppy mills anywhere. You have to do your homework. I have 2 friends who found great purebreds (1 a boxer & 1 a GSD) thru this for cheaper than you would pay in NY. But if you don't get to see the parents, if its unkept, ect then don't get a puppy from there. That goes for anywhere you get a dog. You could pay $2000 or $500 at a puppy mill, or a reputable breeder.
> 
> 
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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I finally went to that site. Puppy Mill or Amish breeder broker. Many of the "breeder's" last names are the same, all of the ads read the same, some are AKC registered and some are other junk registries. Sorry, but as a person whose passion is this breed it makes me sick that anyone would promote this site let alone buy from these people.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Asking for tax info, etc, is how you steal identities. That's just insane. It does NOT speak of "reputable breeder", it speaks of "crook trying to gather sensitive information."


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

Medicpup: read this slowly.



MedicPup said:


> And FYI the breeder that my friend got her boxer from via greenfields not only did a credit check on them, but needed work verifications for her & her husband, & they had to bring something that proves there residence (they brought their utility bill) & also a copy of their tax bill to prove they owned their house. I'm not saying all the breeders are like this via this site, but it's an example of how price doesn't mean anything. They don't charge $2000 for their puppies but they do care about where they go.
> 
> >>>>> So I take offense that I support puppy mills or are pushing them.<<<<<
> 
> Again, it's another option.





lhczth said:


> >>>>>> I finally went to that site. Puppy Mill or Amish breeder
> broker. <<<<
> 
> Many of the "breeder's" last names are the same, all of the ads read the same, some are AKC registered and some are other junk registries.
> ...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I feel bad for the puppies on that site, and some poor Joe Public will buy them thinking they are getting a heck of a bargain. And who knows, they may get the dog of their dreams

However, I would never promote a site like that either And I would never give my tax information to someone. It's none of their business.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

lhczth said:


> Many of the "breeder's" last names are the same, all of the ads read the same, some are AKC registered and some are other junk registries.


Go through all the different breeds and the same names appear. Same contact person for boxers, german shepherds, cavalier king charles spaniels, etc, etc. Same person, in amish country, lots of breeds, cheap prices, bogus registries. 

This is about the last place I'd ever look for a puppy. These are all puppy mills.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> But I also think "reputable breeders" who breed the American GSD with the sloped backs (which there are a lot of) are awful. Those dogs have huge problems but it's ok if it's a "reputable breeder" who charges thousands of dollars for their puppies.


Oh really?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you do a google search on this site and consumer affairs, you will be horrified at the stories and health problems these puppies have.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Hopefully people promoting the Greenfield site will now take the time to learn how horrific puppy mills are, watched the video I posted earlier, and also now taken the opportunity to educate themselves on locating a responsible breeder from the FAQ site on this board.


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