# Is he that good?



## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

Looking around CA, I have seen this dog siring pups with at least 4 different breeders:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/400396.html

(looking for possible SAR, _maybe_ more than that, and smart pet, of course. and we like the blk/rd)

Any thoughts?


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## OkieAmazon (Jun 14, 2005)

Show-lines primarily. I notice the dog is not titled and has no hip rating. I would look more at working lines dogs if you want to do SAR.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Might have been done in germany. SZ2162086, ZW of 104. 

according to website of his owners, sch3 male (pedigree database doesn't always have all the information.)DOB: Oct 31 2003 - SchH3 - Kkl.1a - ZB: V

http://www.nadelhaus.com/start.htm

you might have seenpups out of him. breeder has 7 females. I will say I like their kennel layout!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

There are several people on here with Nadelhaus dogs. I know of one person with a dog who was sired by Diego.

The best way to get feedback is to put up a thread in the "Choosing a Breeder" forum, and use Nadelhaus in the title.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Diego vom Nadelhaus is German Showline male. 

Great pet depends on what the other side of the pups pedigree is.

As far as SAR, you would be better getting involved with a group and then getting a pup. Most people in SAR have workingline dogs, they will almost always have more ball/hunt drive that you need for SAR work. You can find black/red working lines but they are more prevelent in the showlines.

Looking at the PDB I can tell you from the puppy pictures of his progeny that he carries the LC gene, not a big deal in my book.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you want to be in SAR I would join a group now. I have not done it myself, but at a pet expo I went to their booth and they said most groups prefer that people join before they bring their dog. The reason is that it's a huge commitment on the part of the handler, it's something you really have to want to do, not something to dabble in like agility or obedience (not that some people aren't totally obsessed with those too BUT you can train and trial pretty casually and still title pretty far). Once you have a dog, the group can evaluate the dog. The first dog might not work out. I was told new handlers have to put in X-amount of time before the group would even evaluate my dog and that many of the training sessions and meetings don't involve dogs. In the end I decided against it b/c I don't have enough time to make a commitment at that level.

One of my puppy's littermates is starting SAR and they are show lines, BUT like Val said the working lines are generally a much better bet as far as ball drive and food drive. If you are really committed to doing SAR, get a dog that is the most likely to succeed.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Diego has a3 hip, which explains the high ZW, and 'a' elbows. His sire had a1 hips and a good ZW. His dam had a2 hips and her ZW was over 100.

Just an FYI. I don't know the dog and don't know how he is producing.


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## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

WOW. Lots to consider. Thank you all!

I am already involved with CERT (Community Emergency Response Team) but right now, none of us have dogs. A friend of mine has her GSD that she wants to see if she is SAR worthy. And that's what she was told...to go without her dog first and then later bring the dog for evaluation. But from what I've seen, I think her dog may be too laid back. Sacramento does have a USAR team, and that wouldn't be too far away. . .but, as Liesje said . . . it would be a big commitment. I better think about it some more.

So, maybe a dam with a working line will produce a nice puppy from Diego? I'm not out looking for one of his puppies, just seen him around alot.

Thanks again for any input. I'll be back for more questions!


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Most showline breeders are not going to breed to working lines and vice versa. There are a few that strive for the so called golden middle, but for the most part, showlines and working lines are 2 different groups and typically aren't bred to each other.


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## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: lhczthDiego has a3 hip, which explains the high ZW, and 'a' elbows. His sire had a1 hips and a good ZW. His dam had a2 hips and her ZW was over 100.
> 
> Just an FYI. I don't know the dog and don't know how he is producing.


OK . . . 'splain those numbers for me. I am just learning about all these ratings.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Ok, germany has 3 hips ratings just like the US. Here the passing ratings are excellent, good and fair. In germany, a1 is normal, a2 fast normal and a3 Noch Zugelassen. 

Now for the numbers each dog at birth in germany is assigned the ZW initially from adding up its parents ZW. Say, the Sire has 101 and the Dam 95. Add these two up to be 196 and divide it by two making it 98 which would be your dogs zw number. The more a dog produces progeny with good hips, the lower its ZW goes. And if the dog produces bad hips, the numbers will go up. Showlines are typically higher zw than working lines.


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## GSD4LIFE21 (Mar 8, 2007)

I dont know much about showlines, but he is a gorgeous male! He has great pigment!


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## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

I've been trying to find where I've seen him, but I think all the puppies are gone. This one still shows a breeding:
http://vomhognadottirs.com/litters.html


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Maybe she would do a working line showline cross since she bred to an american line female.


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## Superpup (Jun 7, 2007)

I would personally look at a different breeder and working lines, if you want to do SAR. My showline-american bred GSD male does SAR and he is quite good at it, but my working line girl would probably do even better. Cody has very strong desire to please me and therefore his training has been fairly easy, what ever I have asked him to do, but in other areas he may be lacking. I would consider a working line for SAR!


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## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

I'm still looking around and debating what I want in a dog. With the dogs in the past, we never participated in any kind of agility, etc. Just the very basic puppy class and a couple tricks like shaking hands. (big deal ! LOL) As much as I think Schutzhund sounds like fun (and my DH, who's a cop, is always thinking the dog will be nuts like some of the K9's ) we might be better off getting a puppy with less drive than what most of you have and get our feet wet with less intense events and work our way up. If I get into SAR, that'll be OK, but not a priority. I know DH's main concern would be the health (no HD).


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## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

I should probably start a new post. But what do you think of this pair?
(I'm just browsing . . .) Phoenix & Zoe

http://www.valkyre.com/pages/CurrentLitter.htm


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## Nellie (Apr 23, 2009)

Yello produces dogs with allergies,but he does also produce dogs with the desire to work, but would not say enough to make a SARs dog


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Take a look at this Kennel. I don't know Deb personally but I have read some of her posts on other boards and have watched her breeding program for a few years now. http://www.castlebrookshepherds.net/home


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## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerTake a look at this Kennel. I don't know Deb personally but I have read some of her posts on other boards and have watched her breeding program for a few years now. http://www.castlebrookshepherds.net/home


I will go there now . . . thanks!


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## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

I have to share this story about this puppy:

http://www.castlebrookshepherds.net/Viho.html


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## george1990 (Nov 24, 2008)

I have a pup from Diego!

To say I'm happy with him is an understatement. He's medium drive, medium energy level, smart as heck, and perfect for MY needs... primarily a pet. He pretty much came to me potty-trained, knowing how to sit, and I've taught him 10+ commands (without forcing him) in a couple weeks, often a command/day. He loves kids and strangers of all types. BUT.

I would recommend a Nadelhaus dog primarily for showing or as a pet, not so much SAR or working, in all honesty. Also, there's another board member who has had health problems with her Diego pup, but it might have been the dam's side, as I've met a few Diego pups personally who were healthy.

Oh, and wanted to add something about Diego himself. We went to the kennel and there were about 6 of us. The breeder had to go inside and Diego was left outside with us and we were all thinking "[censored] is she doing? AHHH." Diego ran up to us and started licking us, asking for pets, etc and was very friendly and we were perfectly comfortable. 

Good luck in your search!


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## rover51 (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks for the info George. Sounds like you got a great dog. I do suppose the dam's side can make a difference healthwise. I was thinking of getting more of a medium drive in a dog, but that may not be enought for SAR. I'd glad you mentioned that. I may or may not get into SAR, just thinking out loud.


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## george1990 (Nov 24, 2008)

Yeah, no problem. If you need anything, just shoot a PM. I also have a couple posts of Miko if you wanna see what he looks like, under the Pictures category. 

I also recommend talking to Randy Tyson near Redwood City. Showlines with good working ability. I was going to buy from her, and she is beyond reputable, but it just didn't work itself out. It sounds like her dogs would fit, as you said you like black/red dogs and interested in SAR. Good luck with your decision.


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