# Breeder that smokes?



## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

So I went to look at a litter of Golden puppies with my bf's mom yesterday to be an extra set of eyes and ears. The puppies are adorable (surprise, right), the parents were awesome, and the breeder seemed to know her stuff. She breeds for conformation, obedience, and agility and we met all her dogs and they were wonderful! My only question is, what do you think about a breeder that smokes in the house with new puppies? I'm not a breeder nor do I have any experience raising puppies so this was a weird one for me. Her house was pretty dirty but I wrote that off as normal for a household with 10 dogs on 20 acres. But the ash trays and the smell of cigarettes got to me. Is this something that could hurt the puppies and cause issues in the future? Maybe it's a silly question but I'm curious what y'all think...


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I don't see any way that living in a house with secondhand smoke wouldn't hurt the puppies. But hey, they're just dogs, right?


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

I have heard many say the 2nd hand smoke with pups are not good although I am a breeder and a smoker, but I never smoke in the whelping rooms with our pups


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

That was my thought too... I just wasn't sure if I was putting too much weight into it but this really was a huge put-off. Even thought they're older now, they were born in that house and were exposed to the smoke when they were just born! You wouldn't smoke around a newborn baby, why would you smoke around a newborn puppy?


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

sashadog said:


> That was my thought too... I just wasn't sure if I was putting too much weight into it but this really was a huge put-off. Even thought they're older now, they were born in that house and were exposed to the smoke when they were just born! You wouldn't smoke around a newborn baby, why would you smoke around a newborn puppy?


It is unfortunate that there are those that only think of a dog as a dog and don't put much into whether it is good or bad to smoke around young pups.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I would probably look for another breeder. I wouldn't usually mind if someone smokes, but in the house with puppies? That'd be a red flag to me....


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

My poodle came from a breeder who smoked heavily in the house, my oh my how she stank when I brought her home (I'm not a smoker and have asthma so it was very hard). 

She was shaking when we had her in the car and we joked she was going through nicotine withdrawal...needless to say after a few baths so turned out wonderfully, she's a bright and healthy dog


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Why don't you ask your vet for an opinion?

I would imagine 2nd hand smoke would be harmful to dogs/puppies. How much exposure before it impacted them I do not know.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

While I don't smoke and I can't stand the smell we have to put things in perspective. It is not the same raising a child for several years, exposed to smoke than a pup having to breathe the same for 8 weeks. Since they are babies maybe the risk of contracting a respiratory disease is higher than in the house of a non smoking breeder, but if the pus are actually healthy... the smoke will be off their systems in a matter of a few days.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

I think second hand smoke definitely affects dogs just as it does humans - but really: nice dogs, nice temperament, responsible breeder - I would not overthink the smoking thing.

It does not take long for the effects of second hand smoke to go away and as young as these puppies are, I don't think there would be any lasting effects.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

i'm a smoker, however, i don't smoke in my own house, i can't stand the smell of stale smoke or dirty ashtrays. i don't want my children or my grandchildren exposed to second hand smoke, i don't like my dogs smelling like stale smoke and my 2 parrots have sensitive respiratory systems as well so it's very bad for them. 

however, on the other hand, i would not let the breeder's living habits stop you from taking one of the pups. being so young whatever effects the smoke has had will dissipate within a couple of weeks and any smell will be gone permanently after one or two baths. you can give them some light green tea to drink to help chelate (sp) any toxins out once you're at home, to be on the safer side, that also helps speed the smells thru the bloodstream out the skin as well. i've used it w/parrots a few times coming from smoking households and it's awesome. 

dw


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I was in a pet supplies plus and heading in a car pulled in with a lady who was smoking. When she brought her dog into the sore he was coughing.
I could care less if a breeder smokes, but they should not do it around the dogs in un-ventilated areas. 
Same goes for parrot breeders...the respiratory systems are really sensitive on birds~dogs olfactory senses would be overwhelmed, IMO.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

PLEASE!!!!!! I don't smoke, but years ago everyone smoked, never saw ill effects, AND never saw any dogs getting cancer like you do today. Anyway, if they are pups, going to my place that doesn't smoke, is 8 weeks of secondhand smoke going to make a difference...I think not ! Jmo


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

When we smoked, one of our Boxers would sneer, growl and back away at a pack of cigs. He hated them, hated the smell. Yes, Jane, I agree that their senses were overwhelmed.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

On the flipside, how many breeders would turn away a potential puppy buyer because they smoked? I can't imagine that happening!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> PLEASE!!!!!! I don't smoke, but years ago everyone smoked, never saw ill effects, AND never saw any dogs getting cancer like you do today. Anyway, if they are pups, going to my place that doesn't smoke, is 8 weeks of secondhand smoke going to make a difference...I think not ! Jmo


No. I really don't think so. I think the OP is over reacting. If she's a good breeder, I would not be concerned about the smoking.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Here's where I'm coming from on this:

I'm in a pre-medical program at school and we spend a lot of time covering early development. The reason early development is so important is that all of the cells you have when you are full-grown are basically exact copies of the cells you have in your early development. If a couple hundred of your cells get mutated when you're fully grown, no big deal because it's a small percentage of your body. If a couple hundred of your cells get mutated when you're an infant- or even worse, a zygote-- it's a big deal because literally _trillions_ of cells will be _exact copies_ of those screwed-up cells. 

I'm assuming that if he smokes around the puppies, he also smoked around the pregnant mother dog. I wasn't around during the 50's before cancer was invented, but I think the main reason people and animals didn't get cancer back then was because something else got them first and because diagnosis wasn't as good. . . either that or "Old Blue just up and died." Not because physiology has changed that much. 

I absolutely do believe the crap they're putting in our food or water causes cancer as well, but I just can't think that, given the amount of development a puppy goes through starting at the single-cell stage until the 8 week mark, that cigarette smoke is a good thing.

Physiologically thinking, cigarettes are bad, mmkay?


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Thank you all for your opinions! This isn't necessarily a deal breaker for my bf's mom but she was curious what I thought of it and I kept rolling it over in my head and was torn between the two main opinions expressed here. On one hand, her dogs are wonderful and I've known several of them that friends of mine have owned. I would take one if I was a golden person  

On the other hand, smoke is bad. We all know this and know what problems secondhand smoke can cause. Why take the risk when there are also several just as wonderful breeders who don't smoke around their puppies? (Good Golden breeders are surprisingly easy to find) 

I've never gotten a puppy from a breeder so this was a new experience for me and I was faced with some questions I'd never thought of! I have a new found understanding of how stressful it can be to find a breeder to work with!!  

And Emoore, LOVE the South Park reference  Your opinion wins just because of that.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Fluroine in the water can be bad, additives in current dog food to extend shelf life can be bad, pesticides in grass and the food grown can be bad, injections into the meat that we eat can be bad....and these things occur the whole life....and eight weeks of second hand smoke is going to affect my view on a breeding?????? I just don't logically get it. Carry on folks...lol


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Most of the time, breeder's dogs are outside a LOT of the time. There is no way to keep multiple females inside running the house, sorry, without a blood bath, so most breeders would have kennel runs, possibly indoor outdoor, but I would expect momma dog to have a lot more outdoor time than your average PetsMart patron.

I have asthma and cannot stand cigarette smoke. I game Tori to my brother, and he and his buddy smoked like chimneys for 5 weeks with the pup in a crate in the room. When they gave her back to me, she stunk like an ashtray and I had to put her in the bathtub immediately and move the crate I gave them to the shed. 

She is five and a half now and hasn't been sick a day in her life, except for the averse affects of the dog food that my crew were going through for a while -- digestive. She has never had any respiratory illnesses and seems just fine. All the same, would she be fine if I did not get her out of there. 

Well, let me think about that. My brother had Jazzy from a puppy. I got her from him when she was 3 and had her until she was five and she was never sick. He got her back and she lived in that smoke pit until she was 12 and they finally put her down, not exactly sure what the reason was, but 12 is a respectable age for a shepherd. Romon lives over there, he is a Golden. He is about 6 now. He looks old because he is obese. The dogs live inside all the time, so they are never really out of the smoky environment. At the same time, both breeds tend to have health concerns and his dogs did not really have more than their share.

I guess if all other things seemed ok, I would not completely give up on someone because they smoke. But if they try to light up in my house, I will throw them out on their ear.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

i have known so many ppl thru my life that have died or suffered all their lives from lung disorders, disease or cancer or copd and yet had never been around smokers, never smoked, never inhaled anything stronger than air conditioning or new car smell (which by the way is toxic). 

you cannot live in the 21st century w/out breathing toxic air anywhere in the world. there IS NO fresh air except maybe somewhere in some distant desert in the middle of mongolia, or out in the center of the taiga forest in siberia. somewhere people just do not go. 8wks of 2nd hand smoke out of a 15-18yr life span isn't gonna hurt anyone.

using smoking as an excuse NOT to buy a puppy from a decent breeder is a bad reason. 

dw


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

_Seriously?_
WHAT ELSE......?
For heavens sake.....why "red flag" a breeder because they are a smoker?

Might as well "red flag" breeders that drink, ...feed their dogs food(s) that don't meet personal expectations, ...live a controversial lifestyle,... have modest jobs or minimal incomes, ...dine at fast food restaurants...or are large or obese...etc, etc...

I'm a smoker (although I do not spoke in my home)......if a potential puppy buyer, decided to "pass" on a puppy from us, based on me being a smoker.......*WELL.....don't let the door hit ya on the way out! *
_***all kidding aside! LOL!***_

*I sincerely hope that one would not pass on a great puppy, from a reputable breeder because of such a thing....


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## rshkr (Feb 9, 2012)

if the puppy smoked....then i'd red flag the breeder.


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## Kaity (Nov 18, 2009)

you never mentioned the breeder breeds for HEALTH. Obviously, they don't considering they smoke in home around the pups. It's fine if you smoke, just do so outside and was your hands afterwards.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Smoking has absolutely nothing to do with breeding a quality dog. If they breed a good dog, who cares if they smoke? Even though I don't smoke, and would not smoke around puppies if I did, in the grand scheme of things, that is in no way a "red flag".

Ridiculous.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

rshkr said:


> if the puppy smoked....then i'd red flag the breeder.


:thumbup:......post of the day!!!!


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> _Seriously?_
> WHAT ELSE......?
> For heavens sake.....why "red flag" a breeder because they are a smoker?
> 
> ...


:thumbup:...well said....


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Dragonwyke said:


> i have known so many ppl thru my life that have died or suffered all their lives from lung disorders, disease or cancer or copd and yet had never been around smokers, never smoked, never inhaled anything stronger than air conditioning or new car smell (which by the way is toxic).
> 
> you cannot live in the 21st century w/out breathing toxic air anywhere in the world. there IS NO fresh air except maybe somewhere in some distant desert in the middle of mongolia, or out in the center of the taiga forest in siberia. somewhere people just do not go. 8wks of 2nd hand smoke out of a 15-18yr life span isn't gonna hurt anyone.
> 
> ...


Actually, I've had to open dogs for anatomy lessons and necropsies. Those who lived in big cities had enough carbon in their lungs without need to be owned by smoking people.

Sorry, but this is one of those threads where the whole concept of "red flags" cross the line of ridiculousness.


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## Zoeys momma (Jan 5, 2012)

X2- totally agree



Dragonwyke said:


> i'm a smoker, however, i don't smoke in my own house, i can't stand the smell of stale smoke or dirty ashtrays. i don't want my children or my grandchildren exposed to second hand smoke, i don't like my dogs smelling like stale smoke and my 2 parrots have sensitive respiratory systems as well so it's very bad for them.
> 
> however, on the other hand, i would not let the breeder's living habits stop you from taking one of the pups. being so young whatever effects the smoke has had will dissipate within a couple of weeks and any smell will be gone permanently after one or two baths. you can give them some light green tea to drink to help chelate (sp) any toxins out once you're at home, to be on the safer side, that also helps speed the smells thru the bloodstream out the skin as well. i've used it w/parrots a few times coming from smoking households and it's awesome.
> 
> dw


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## Zoeys momma (Jan 5, 2012)

Bwahhahaha...second that...


rshkr said:


> if the puppy smoked....then i'd red flag the breeder.


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

Maybe we should never walk a dog around cars, they give off far worse stuff than cigarette smoke. Or we should all keep our pets in plastic bubbles.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

In all honesty, if it bothers you AT ALL, go with another breeder. Even if smoking has no impact on the health of your dogs or your breeder was careful about where they smoked, any time a problem comes up you'd always be wondering and you wouldn't be 100% haPpy with your choice. Dogs are such long term commitments that you dot want there to be any chance of buyer's remorse based on any small detail. 

That said, I did not and would not pass up a good breeder as long as I know the dogs don't live in a hazy house and come smelling like smoke. My father was a smoker when I was younger and he always smoked in the washroom with vent on, or outside. Knowing that there are smokers like my dad, I would not pass on the breeder since it really can have a negligible effect.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

marshies said:


> In all honesty, if it bothers you AT ALL, go with another breeder.


Totally agree....

First...GSD forum, this should be on the Golden forum...second, you're there to evaluate a litter, not judge a person's lifestyle.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> _Seriously?_
> WHAT ELSE......?
> For heavens sake.....why "red flag" a breeder because they are a smoker?
> 
> ...


They aren't passing on a puppy because of this by any means. It was just something neither of us had never even thought of when looking for a puppy. Health clearances on the parents, temperaments, a breeder that is helpful and knowledgeable, genetic knowledge, all of that stuff that had been thought about and what they wanted was talked about. But when we got to the puppy room and there was a full ashtray on the table, I hadn't even thought about what to make of that. Took me by surprise, that's all... 

Like several people have commented on, there are many, many toxic things in our world today. Cigarette smoke however, is one thing that can be avoided if people choose to do so.

Also, I was asking this question more as a general breeding question, not because I need information on Goldens (the pup isn't even for me) so I figured it would be fine to post here. The same question would apply if I was looking at a litter of Shepherd pups


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I personally wouldn't, though I doubt I would have thought much about it before I had my son. My DH's mother smokes like a chimney and ever since we found out we were expecting, it has been a HUGE issue with his mother to get her to not smoke on the way here to see, hold, cuddle with our son. Who luckily is a toddler now and not so snuggly. Given the many arguments we had early on about his mom and her disgusting bad habit affecting our son for a single moment in time, I turned into one of the most cigarette hating people you could imagine.

Knowing what I know now about the effects it can cause even from a baby being held by someone who HAS smoked and has it on the clothing, body, and hair, no - I would definitely not buy a puppy from someone that I knew smoked in the house the puppies were born and lived in for their first 8 wks of life.

Yes, I absolutely would turn down/pass on a pup no matter how great the pup was. There are lots of great pups out there, I would just keep looking. I could care less if the breeder smokes, as long as it's not around the litter. Yes they'll still have it "on" them, it's generally referred to as 3rd hand contact, but I would think the risk is minimal as the puppies don't spend 90% of their first 8 weeks being cuddled and held by a human (like a newborn human baby), smoking or otherwise. The contact would be minimal and I wouldn't be too bothered by that.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Both my parents smoked two packs a day and I lived in their home for 20 years. Quite a few years passed since I moved out and my health is excellent. Our Maltese live to be 17. BTW my mother is a lung specialist doing bronchoscopies 

I think this borders on funny, puppies and smoking.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

RebelGSD said:


> Both my parents smoked two packs a day and I lived in their home for 20 years. Quite a few years passed since I moved out years and my health is excellent. Our Maltese live to be 17. BTW my mother is a lung specialist doing bronchoscopies
> 
> I think this borders on funny, puupies and and smoking.


Having known many people that have been negatively affected by smoking, I would say you're lucky, not the norm. I'm glad you're healthy but your experience doesn't mean that cigarette smoke and secondhand smoke isn't bad for people.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

sashadog said:


> Having known many people that have been negatively affected by smoking, I would say you're lucky, not the norm. I'm glad you're healthy but your experience doesn't mean that cigarette smoke and secondhand smoke isn't bad for people.


Having known many many people (more people than didn't have this experience) who had at least one parent who smoked and has had no ill effects I would say that she is the norm. I'm not saying smoking is good or that people should do it, but people way over exaggerate.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

This is definitely a first for me! Lol. With the laundry list out there of what it takes to deem someone a good breeder and find a good breeding, the smoking would be the LEAST of my worries! I think we've gotten to an almost insane point in society where we pick every thing apart to try and prevent the inevitable. 2 million ways to die...choose one...


Let me add that this is just about the same as the argument between a person that fed gravy train and the other fed raw, and both dogs lived to be 15 yrs old. Who's to say which was the healthier dog and why??


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't like smoking but honestly when it comes to a puppy I probably couldn't care less. To me it's about the same as caring whether the puppy was weaned onto my favorite dog food or not. It's only a matter of weeks, who cares?

Reminds me of when I got Pan, my friend came alone and we laughed so hard b/c we found this little bit of poo stuck on his fur, but it had combined with some of the sawdust that was in the puppy pen so it was like cemented to his puppy fuzz. Maybe I should have tossed him back and walked out, since the breed must not "breed for health"?


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

I find it sad that people that smoke now get treated worse than dirt. Just light up a cig in a mall parking lot or somewhere else in public and watch all the ugly stares and snide comments that are made. Won't be long before all the smokers are hiding in the woods, puffing on their cigs....to scared to do it in public. (haha reminds me of hiding in the bathroom at school smoking on cigs)

Don't buy a pup from the smokers if it bothers you that much. You really would have hated the 80's and even early 90's. I remember when you could smoke in hospitals, mcdonalds, all eating places, inside the malls, walmart, the police stations, and inside your work, etc.... I even remember riding my bike to the store to buy my mom cigs.

Of course, I could also buy spray paint, liquid paper, OTC meds, cough syrup, and paint thinner without being 18.


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

I honestly think that this has really gotten out of hand with whether or not to buy a pup from a breeder that smokes or not. When have we gotten to this point when there are many other problems in our lines to worry about smokers. You all will then miss out on some really good dogs if we all start to separate smoking breeders from non-smoking breeders.

Yes I understand all about a young pup and their developing lungs, but there are many other things we all should be worried about than smokers


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

First off, I don't hate smokers and this breeder is a training friend of mine so I have no ill feelings against her. Secondly, I don't think anyone on here is jumping down the throats of people that smoke and breed or even people that smoke around their dogs. She *does* breed for health as well as temperament and confirmation and I think highly of her dogs. 

As I've said multiple times, this isn't being used as an excuse to not buy a pup from this breeder and I don't necessarily harbor any feelings, good or bad, towards various breeders habits and how they raise their puppies. Her smoking wasn't a big red flag or a deal breaker! It was simply something that the family who is actually buying the puppy and I had never thought of when looking at breeders. When the smell of smoke hit us in the face when we walked through the door and there was an ashtray in the puppy room, it became something we discussed. 

This conversation wasn't started because we were freaking out about a breeder that smokes. I was curious if it was something that should be considered when looking for a pup and what other peoples feelings were on the subject.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I smoke, but not in the house around my dogs and kids because I love them and know it's not healthy for them to breathe in. I doubt being exposed to smoke for 8 weeks would permanently harm them, but I would expect a higher degree of professionalism from a breeder when they know people are coming to look at the dogs.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Do I care if a breeder smokes around the pups? Sort of.
Do I care deeply? Nope.
On a list of 20 criteria smoking around the pups would rank about 25 or 30.

In evaluating a breeder I look at their adults more than their pups. IF the adults have thrived within the environment then I'd assume a rugged constitution is being selected for.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

jetscarbie said:


> I remember when you could smoke in hospitals, mcdonalds, all eating places, inside the malls, walmart, the police stations, and inside your work, etc.... I even remember riding my bike to the store to buy my mom cigs.


Thank goodness we've evolved as a society.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My mom smoked in the delivery room. Anyone could by cigarettes in a vending machine when I was young...50 cents a pack!


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm a smoker, but hate the habit. Don't smoke in my car or my house and can't stand it on my clothes and hair, but at the same time I love it and it's a helluva habit to kick. I just hate how scorned society has become about the whole thing. It's to the point where I don't even want to light up unless I'm around other smokers because I feel like I'm getting "that look" from people. 

This is just my personal observation, and slightly off topic, but...

I don't really drink, a full glass of wine and I'm tipsy, but it bugs me how alcohol is okey dokey, but cigarettes are the devil! I don't smoke a cigarette, then get behind the wheel of my car and kill anyone. I don't smoke so many that I can't get up to go to work in the morning cause I'm puking my guts out. As far as I know, smokers don't even have to go to rehab to quit. You make up your mind to quit, and you quit. My brother was killed by a drunk driver when he was 7 years old. My grandfather died as a result of long term drinking. My stepfather lost his military career, family, and is dying from it now as well. Both were smokers, but it is the alcohol that did them in. Now, I'm not saying that one habit is worse than the other, but I think it's a bit crazy how one and the other are viewed so entirely different by society...


I've seen alcohol ruin FAR more lives than cigarettes, but you'll never see anyone get scorned at because they decided to stop at a bar on the way home and have a few drinks.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What grosses me out about smoking is that it invades my personal space. Sometimes I am driving with all my windows shut and still it stinks in my car because the person next to me has their window open and his blowing their smoke out at my car or holding their cig out the window. Also I hate how cigs just get tossed around. IMO litter is just gross and it's not classy to throw your trash around. I like soda but don't toss my cans and cups all over the place so why are stinky gross cig butts exempt? Why can't smokers keep their trash to themselves? FWIW a few of my best friends smoke and my dad has smoked a pack a day since before I was born. I can hate the smoking not the smoker 

I agree with you on the drinking, not keen on that either.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Liesje said:


> What grosses me out about smoking is that it invades my personal space. Sometimes I am driving with all my windows shut and still it stinks in my car because the person next to me has their window open and his blowing their smoke out at my car or holding their cig out the window. Also I hate how cigs just get tossed around. IMO litter is just gross and it's not classy to throw your trash around. I like soda but don't toss my cans and cups all over the place so why are stinky gross cig butts exempt? Why can't smokers keep their trash to themselves? FWIW a few of my best friends smoke and my dad has smoked a pack a day since before I was born. I can hate the smoking not the smoker
> 
> I agree with you on the drinking, not keen on that either.


I hate the smoking too! Lol. I just wish I had the willpower to quit. My husband is a terrible chain smoker and it INFURIATES me when he flicks his butts! He'll flick em right in the yard!! :angryfire::angryfire: We just moved into a very nice new home, and I've already threatened to crack his skull open if I find a butt in my yard!!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Lakl said:


> I just hate how scorned society has become about the whole thing. It's to the point where I don't even want to light up unless I'm around other smokers because I feel like I'm getting "that look" from people.


I believe that is the whole point... you not wanting to light up.

I'm sorry, but being next to someone, even outside, who is smoking is as charming to me like being next to someone passing gas. I give both "the look".

I don't have a problem with people taking a drink, if they ruin or not their lives is THEIR problem. If they spill their drink over me it becomes my problem.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Catu said:


> I believe that is the whole point... you not wanting to light up.
> 
> I'm sorry, but being next to someone, even outside, who is smoking is as charming to me like being next to someone passing gas. I give both "the look".
> 
> I don't have a problem with people taking a drink, if they ruin or not their lives is THEIR problem. If they spill their drink over me it becomes my problem.


Tell you what, let's make it even. Smokers have to stay outside, and drinkers have to stay inside where it's safe? How bout that?


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Lakl said:


> Tell you what, let's make it even. Smokers have to stay outside, and drinkers have to stay inside where it's safe? How bout that?


Absolutely right for me :thumbup:

When drinkers decide to drive under the effects of alcohol it becomes everybody problem too...


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I wouldn't pass on a breeder just because they smoked I wouldn't hold it against them. Thats their choice. But I would be worried if they smoked around 8 week wold puppies and had an ashtray near the puppies. No its the worst thing to get worried about, there are bigger issues. I think if the breeder does a good job with health clearences, and is responsible when it comes to breeding, then I wouldn't pass. I totally see why you were wondering. The OP wasn't mad at people for smoking I have no idea why people got that idea.:crazy:

My aunt and uncle smoke. My uncle smells worse than my aunt. I have no idea why though. The smell of smoke is just stronger on my uncle.My grandpa smoked, I have friends who smoke, and my friends parents who smoke. I had asthma, but luckily enough I haven't had a big issue with it for a while. I think with me being sick recently made it come back a little bit. When I go by someone is smoking and smell/inhale the 2nd hand smoke it irritates my throat and makes me cough, it happened more recently with me being sick for the past few weeks. I also don't like the smell of it. But I am polite and don't go around giving people looks, unless they are being careless about it and their smoke is annoying me.

I could careless if someone smokes thats their choice. I just don't want the smoke coming to me and I don't want to smell it.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I personally would probably hesitate in puppy from someone who smokes in the house around the puppies, just because of my own experience. My mom used to smoke for many years, she finally quit recently... We lived in the house with her when she smoked and my terrier got lung cancer. Primary lung cancer is not common in dogs but I read that with smoke exposure, longer-nosed dogs tend to get nasal cancer and those with shorter noses are a lot more likely to get lung cancer. My terrier was bordering on brachycephalic. I've had other pets with issues that I have wondered if the smoke may have been a factor (cancer, asthma, pneumonia...) Of course there's no proof the smoke in the house was a factor but I'd say it's definitely added risk.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Lakl said:


> Now, I'm not saying that one habit is worse than the other, but I think it's a bit crazy how one and the other are viewed so entirely different by society...
> 
> 
> I've seen alcohol ruin FAR more lives than cigarettes, but you'll never see anyone get scorned at because they decided to stop at a bar on the way home and have a few drinks.


Well I personally can't stand both of those vices! I would LOVE it if prohibition existed and was successful, of course it will NEVER happen because America loves its alcohol and nicotine, but I can dream. If people with problems would go read a book, take their dog on a walk, paint a picture, or go sit on the beach instead of lighting up and getting wasted, the world would be a better place.


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## pfitzpa1 (Apr 26, 2011)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Well I personally can't stand both of those vices! I would LOVE it if prohibition existed and was successful, of course it will NEVER happen because America loves its alcohol and nicotine, but I can dream. If people with problems would go read a book, take their dog on a walk, paint a picture, or go sit on the beach instead of lighting up and getting wasted, the world would be a better place.


Yeah and how about all those anti-dog people wishing that all dogs should be on leash and that NO dogs should be allowed in public places. Your freedom to walk your dog in a public place is just as important as their freedom to enjoy a cig or a drink. There are probably as many people with problem dogs as there people with alcohol problems. Be careful what you wish for 

It's all about responsibility. The law is there to punish those unresponsible drinkers/smokers and dog owners.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

pfitzpa1 said:


> Yeah and how about all those anti-dog people wishing that all dogs should be on leash and that NO dogs should be allowed in public places. Your freedom to walk your dog in a public place is just as important as their freedom to enjoy a cig or a drink. There are probably as many people with problem dogs as there people with alcohol problems. Be careful what you wish for
> 
> It's all about responsibility. The law is there to punish those unresponsible drinkers/smokers and dog owners.



Last time I checked, I don't recall hearing about how sitting next to a dog in public can give you cancer ;p. I have, however, heard of many stories of people developing problems from second hand smoke. 

I don't care if people drink or smoke unless it's someone I truly care about and love, I firmly believe that natural selection will take care of many of those people. I am straight edge and used to be very militant about it, but I have learned that people are going to do what they want to do and they can't change unless they truly want to. So, to each their own, but when someone's smoking or drinking affects me then I get upset. As far as the OT goes, I would not purchase a puppy from a breeder that smokes around them. I wouldn't smoke around my dogs so as a responsible pet owner, I would hold an ethical breeder to the same standards. There are plenty of ethical breeders who do not smoke around their puppies for me to settle on one that does.


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## pfitzpa1 (Apr 26, 2011)

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Last time I checked, I don't recall hearing about how sitting next to a dog in public can give you cancer ;p. I have, however, heard of many stories of people developing problems from second hand smoke.


Well I've never heard how sitting next to someone smoking in public can get you 15 stitches in the face. What has one got to do with the other. 

I was commenting on your desire to impose your wish to eliminate all smoking and drinking, whether it be responsible or not, just because you don't like it. 

My "point" was that if we all were allowed to ban something because we are uncomfortable about it, you would never see dogs in public places.

back to OT, I know one of the local breeders here, who is a chain smoker. He breeds excellent dogs and his smoking habit would not concern me in the slightest if I were to consider purchasing a pup from him.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

I understand your point, I share the same sentiment. Believe me, I have a cropped dog and am totally appalled by AR nuts. I am also pro-choice in most things because it's bad when the govt gets deeper and deeper involved and we are stripped of more of our freedoms. People can have views and opinions, but they shouldn't force their personal beliefs onto others. I think you misinterpreted my post. I dream about a society with successful prohibition, it would be nice to ME. Obviously that is just my view and I'm not going to go out there and try and get laws changed or force others to not drink or smoke. As I've stated, I've mellowed out about all of the militant stuff and just put my faith in natural selection, and live and let live these days. Do I think smoking is disgusting and very non-attractive? Absolutely! But if that's what rocks your boat, then rock on with your bad self! 



Of course someone sitting next to a dog can get peed on, bit, barked at, slobbered on, etc..._if_ the person at the other end of the leash is irresponsible. When it comes to smoking in public, people breathing in second hand smoke are screwed regardless unless they get up and move. I can stop my dog from not being able to reach another person or bite them when out in public. I can not stop smoke from going into the lungs of someone sitting next to a smoker.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

i don't smoke, but whether or not a breeder smokes or not is not a consideration fro me in buying a pup. I have a lot of considerations but that is not one of them.

However If I were a breeder I may not want to sell one of my pups to am owner who was a chain smoker. Good thing I am not a breeder


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