# My pet....now my service dog.



## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

I first got Abbey as a pet. Long story short over the past few years I have developed serious anxiety. I now have an ID and Service Vest for Abbey and take her anywhere I can. Last night I have a full blown panic attack, this was the first time I have had one with Abbey with me.

She instantly changed her entire posture and came into direct contact with me and took a defensive attitude. Once I recovered I scratched her chin and thanked her for taking care of me. She almost instantly went back to beeing the goofy loving dog she is.

It almost chokes me up to explain this and I am afraid that words can not fully explain the comfort I felt having her on my side.

On a side not the panic attack lasted about half as long as normal and I recovered from it very quickly.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

I used to have panic attacks, service dogs are amazing at what they do, but have you considered therapy to confront head on what is causing you to have these panic attacks?! I spent a year and a half in therapy. Once a week. I confronted my issues, head on, and no longer have panic attacks. Abbey is a GREAT help, but I think you should work towards fixing your issue, and Abbey will help you along the way. PTSD is no fun. Panic Attacks are no fun. I'm so happy that Abbey is there for you, when you feel like your world is closing in on you, and your losing control. Good Luck.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

I in month 5 of therapy, but.....not much progress yet! I am sticking with it.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

GOOD FOR YOU!!! It took a long time to find the root of my PTSD, I knew what it was, I just didn't want to talk about it, with the mix of the anxiety medication and therapy, I was panic attack free in about a year....


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Legally aren't emotional support dogs different from actual service dogs? I did not think emotional support dogs had special access like service dogs.

Stick with the therapy. It will get better.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> I did not think emotional support dogs had special access like service dogs.


They do not, unless the state the person lives in says they do.


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## Thru the Viewfinder (Aug 8, 2011)

It is clear that Abbey loves you very deeply.


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## dogluver (Apr 28, 2011)

I started having panic attacks at age 18. they weren't too severe and certainly didn't know what they were or what caused it. At age 24, one year to the date of my mother's death, I woke up with an attack that lasted 2 days. Felt like I had been hit by a train. 1 yr later while attempting to take my college exams, they came on with a vengeance. Was house bound for another 2 years. Couldn't go to my mailbox. Finally got help. Medication with 2 years therapy. I am now 49 and, with the help of meds, haven't had any attacks in years. Have tried numerous time to go off meds, but they come right back. In my case, it is a wiring problem. Have thought so many times about how a therapy dog could help others. I think life would have been different had I had a dog that could have been with me during my attacks. Am hoping my new gsd will be a therapy dog and will see if she can help others. This is a horrible disease, in my case, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Hang in there. The therapy does work. Love your dog for being so intuitive.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

Xeph said:


> They do not, unless the state the person lives in says they do.


Depends on how you define the animal. Mine is not an emotional support animal.
Revised ADA Requirements: Service Animals

*"*_Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities_
_....calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties_"

However,...
"_Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA_."


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> They do not, unless the state the person lives in says they do.


ADA/DOJ does not recognize this dog (per the info given) as a Service Dog.
" ... The crime deterrent effects of an animal´s presence and the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition.” 

From the DOJ Guidance on the Revised ADA:
_"Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA."_
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Service Dog *work or tasks must be trained* and not something a dog does automatically. 

U.S. Dept. of Justice ADA Infoline
Monday through Friday from 9:30 AM until 5:30 PM (eastern time) except on Thursday when the hours are 12:30 PM until 5:30 PM.
Spanish language service is also available.
For general ADA information, answers to specific technical questions, free ADA materials, or information about filing a complaint, call:
1-800-514-0301 (voice)
1-800-514-0383 (TTY)


The State of Texas does not give Public Access Rights to the handlers of Therapy Dogs nor do they recognize owner trained SDITs. 
_"Provides that assistance animals must be trained by organizations generally recognized as reputable and competent by agencies involved in rehabilitation of people with disabilities."_
Office of the Governor Rick Perry: Committee on People with Disabilities - Service Dogs

*Texas Attorney General*
By mail:
Office of the Attorney General
PO Box 12548
Austin, TX 78711-2548
Physical Address:
Office of the Attorney General
300 W. 15th Street
Austin, TX 78701
(800) 252-8011 or (512) 475-4413

For a final legal decision the poster would be best served to verify through the above.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

I didn't realize that my post would cause such a discussion. Leave it to the new guy huh?


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## Mom2Shaman (Jun 17, 2011)

Service dog rules really are a bit of a maze. There is federal and state and they are not the same. There is owner trained versus organization trained. There is in training versus completed a training program. There are housing rules and public access rules. Everything has different rules. Research very, very carefully and talk to the offices to find out what you can and cannot do. OR move to CA. CA allows just about everything. Just kidding. Sort of.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Anxiety attacks are frightening and difficult. I have a book i bought about a woman who was agoraphobic and had generaluized anxiety She got a dog and the book tells their story. Can't find it right now will post it when I find it. But its a great book. Generalized Anxiety Disorder or GAD is diagnosable and is as much an illnes as seizures,which service dogs also aid in helping their human cope with.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

bjielsl said:


> I didn't realize that my post would cause such a discussion. Leave it to the new guy huh?


It's always the new guy or gal  I guess it's kind of a hazing, if you can make it through your first 10 posts, you are good enough to stick around!!


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

Mom2Shaman said:


> Service dog rules really are a bit of a maze. There is federal and state and they are not the same. There is owner trained versus organization trained. There is in training versus completed a training program. There are housing rules and public access rules. Everything has different rules. Research very, very carefully and talk to the offices to find out what you can and cannot do. OR move to CA. CA allows just about everything. Just kidding. Sort of.


I have found that If I walk in without looking guilty with my dog wearing a service vest...no one asks.

By law they can only ask 2 questions. Is that a service animal and are you disabled? Most won't ask beacause of the fear of being sued for discrimination.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

It such a murky subject. My dog has not specifically trained to aid me in a panic attack, however she does "_calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack,". _

Plus a Service Animal can be trained by an owner.

I wish there was a place I could go and say hey this in my dog, she provides this service for me, I am disabled...and they would issue a licence or something like that.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

warrantswifey said:


> it's always the new guy or gal  i guess it's kind of a hazing, if you can make it through your first 10 posts, you are good enough to stick around!! :d


and 10


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> I have found that If I walk in without looking guilty with my dog wearing a service vest...no one asks.
> 
> By law they can only ask 2 questions. Is that a service animal and are you disabled? Most won't ask beacause of the fear of being sued for discrimination.


There are many places where vests, certificates, and IDs can be purchased via the Internet to anyone with a credit card. 

Claiming a dog as a Service Dog when it is not is a Federal Offense. Some states also have laws against such including fines and/or jail time. In some states the individual may also loose future state benefits. 

It does look like the poster has done some research on this matter. No one on this forum can state if the dog is a Service Dog (trained to mitigate the poster's _legal disability_) or a pet with an easily obtainable cape and ID who just by virtue of being a loving dog helps the poster with an _emotional condition or at best a medical disability_.

Came back after reading this -->


> My dog has not specifically trained to aid me in a panic attack


I do highly suggest that you call those numbers that I gave you to clarify. Also ask for the answers in writing.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

The whole definition needs to be read not just a sentence or two:

“Service animal means any dog *that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks* for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not service animals for the purposes of this definition. The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the handler´s disability. Examples of work or tasks include, but are not limited to, assisting individuals who are blind or have low vision with navigation and other tasks, alerting individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing to the presence of people or sounds, providing non-violent protection or rescue work, pulling a wheelchair, assisting an individual during a seizure, alerting individuals to the presence of allergens, retrieving items such as medicine or the telephone, providing physical support and assistance with balance and stability to individuals with mobility disabilities, and helping persons with psychiatric and neurological disabilities by preventing or interrupting impulsive or destructive behaviors. *The crime deterrent effects of an animal´s presence and the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition.*”

Bolding is mine.

Have a good evening.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> By law they can only ask 2 questions.


3

Is that a service dog?
Are you disabled?
What tasks does the dog perform to mitigate your disability


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

Wow, thanks everyone for your input. I have learned a lot already and have had some great questions posted to help me in my research.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

If your dog is not specifically trained to assist you with your condition it is not legally a service dog.
If you want help on figuring this out there are some service dog sites online; one place where there are a lot of people knowledgeable on the laws and training is the Dogster service dog forum. There are quite a few people there that have psychiatric service dogs as well.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

Been looking into some sort of certification... I have found sites that ask if you dog can do this or that...then initial here... your badge is in the mail... 

I don't think I trust that.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

Chicagocanine said:


> If your dog is not specifically trained to assist you with your condition it is not legally a service dog.
> If you want help on figuring this out there are some service dog sites online; one place where there are a lot of people knowledgeable on the laws and training is the Dogster service dog forum. There are quite a few people there that have psychiatric service dogs as well.


Thanks I'll check that out!


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## Mom2Shaman (Jun 17, 2011)

Hang in there. Everyone here is prompting you to know and be correct in the law for your legal safety. And be prepared for sneaky questioning in stores. Some employees have been trained to boom, boom, boom ask all three questions rapid fire. Some have been trained to be more sneaky like "I wish I could pet your dog but that might interrupt it's working, right?" and "May I alert my staff to any special needs you or your dog might need?" Even if you are calling advance to say a seminar or production to get seating, "Do we really need puppy with us at all times even if you are with a companion human?". They get creative in attempt to sort of gather data while appearing welcoming. Do call fed and state and ask them to clarify things for you and then have the relevant information with you printed. Wait til you get jury duty. Those judges and lawyers will take it to the edge of their rights and you better know yours. Keep up your researching through the maze. Everyone who has a SD without obvious outward disability goes through a sort of learning and coping phase as you learn a variety of situations. It is oh so fun. Meanwhile, law is evolving and defining and you have to keep up with it too.


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## Mom2Shaman (Jun 17, 2011)

Those places are rip-offs by the way and don't mean anything to protect you legally.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

Again, 
Thanks everyone... I finally feel like I have a direction.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I would personally suggest not taking the dog anywhere else, as she's currently not a legal SD


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Oh by the way here's a link to the forum I mentioned! 

Dogster Forums - Service & Therapy Dogs


Another good forum you may find helpful:
http://pleasedontpetme.com/forum/index.php


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

Chicagocanine said:


> If your dog is not specifically trained to assist you with your condition.....


Worked on that last night. Now if I lay down and call PANIC, she comes over and lays on my chest applying deep pressure to slow my breathing and calm me down. It impresses me how fast she will pick up a new behavior.


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

From what I understand there are places that will train you/your dog to be a service dog based on your needs. 

Wolf Packs - Service Dog Trainers

I would contact a trainer and ask them what does it take to have a legally trained Social/Therapy dog? What laws apply in your state? Is this a training that you do with your dog or have to send your dog away for? etc....

I would start with obtaining your CGC (AKC Canine Good Citizen) and then look at obtaining a TDI (Therapy Dog International, TDInc) So at least your dog is professionally trained and passed specific tests, then if you have a trainer that can test your dog for assistance work and certify them then that should be the course. 

I do remember seeing a show on either Discovery or Animal Planet where a lady owned a smaller dog and she developed PTSD and couldn't do anything alone, her dog helped so she got involved with a trainer who eventually tested the dog for a companion service dog. The dog basically went through the steps I posted above. She may have lived in CA but I don't remember. I know California and Florida are the most lax states on rules like this.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

The reason why people sometimes come across rather strongly in these types of discussions is because people that try to pass of their dog as a "Service Dog" can cause real problems for those that tryly NEED a service dog - like those that are physically disabled.

I'm not saying the OP is trying to pass off their dog as a SD - just trying to explain why these discussions can get heated.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

Update: My doc is signing a letter stating that I am in need of a service dog. I short that due to PTSD my life will be made better by the assistance of a dog. I am setting up a CGC (Canine Good Citizen) test through AKC and having the vet sign a bill of good health for her today. I am hoping by the end of the week I will have Abbey Legally assigned as a service dog.

Please don't read this as I am trying to scam a system, I have been more active outside my house and have been living a lot better with her at my side.

The PANIC command is coming along well.

I should meet all criteria:
Have a disability that is covered under ADA
A dog that is trained to perform a specific task to aid with said disability
And have her vetted.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

suzzyq01 said:


> From what I understand there are places that will train you/your dog to be a service dog based on your needs.
> 
> Wolf Packs - Service Dog Trainers
> 
> I would contact a trainer and ask them what does it take to have a legally trained Social/Therapy dog? What laws apply in your state? Is this a training that you do with your dog or have to send your dog away for? etc....


From everything that I have read, except for the state of Ohio a service dog can be trained by the owner. 

Please correct me if I am wrong.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I am not going to say if your dog is a SD or not. But the Dept. of Justice says that a dog must be *trained* to mitigate the handler's disability. You have posted that your dog has not been trained. Based on that is why several posts have brought that fact up. Training a SD takes on the average of 18-24 months. 

A doctor can write a script for an ESA/ESD based on a patient's mental health. A doctor can not write a script for a SD or proclaim a dog as a SD but only state that in their expert opinion an individual is *legally* disabled under the requirements of the ADA/Dept. of Justice. 

Yes most states acknowledge SDITs to some extent in their state statutes but not all include that a dog can be owner trained nor do all recognize a PSDIT. The example that I gave of TX is one of those states that only recognize a professional trainer as being able to train a SDIT. MO is another state that does not recognize OT SDITs. Handler Rights under the ADA only deal with using a SD and not a SDIT. 

A dog standing next to the owner and bringing comfort is not a recognized task per the Dept. of Justice. A trained task is something the dog has "been taught" to do which mitigates the handler's disability. 
Some tasks that are common for a PSDs to do are:
* Push a 9-1-1 button to summon help if handler is unresponsive at home
* Do basic guide work if the handler becomes disorganized
* Position themself between their handler and potential danger such as the handler walking out into a street while disorganized
* Do mobility work if the handler's medication makes them unable to walk without assistance / pick up dropped items if the handler's medication makes them unable to bend over without falling
* Lead their handler to the closest exit door if the handler panics in a public building
* Upon entering the home, the dog does an interior sweep and alerts the handler that there is no one inside
* Upon entering a dark room, the dog alerts that there is no one inside and turns on a light
* Some individuals believe they smell smoke, see people or things that are not there, or hear sounds that are not going on because of a brain injury or some type of trauma - the dog is trained by their action to allow the handler to know (by virture of a lack of trained alert) that whatever particular smell, sight, or sound they believe is not real or by giving the trained command that indeed that particular odor, sight, or sound is in fact real.

Not all individuals will need the same tasks. Tasks must be based on individual need. 

~Having a doctor give you a statement (on his letterhead) that he believes your medical disability meets the qualifications of a legal disability (and also notating that on your medical files),
~Having your vet give a statement on office letterhead that in his/her opinion your dog is heatlthy enough and of sound temperament to handle the stress of being a Service Dog
~Having your dog take and pass the CGC Certificate
*All the above is a good beginning and valuable items to have in your dog's training log*. 

If you plan on owner training you really should start a log showing goals, hours put in, and any documentation that you can add. 

These posts are not to give you a hard time but to show what will be needed if you are ever brought into the legal system either through someone else or if you bring a complaint of your civil rights being violated against someone. If you ever want to rent, your landlord can request to see documentation. If you ever go to court, a judge can demand to see either documentation from a training facility, a professional trainer, or as an owner trainer your training log and in all cases your medical files. 

When a judge asks you to show your dog's trained tasks they must be tasks that are necessary for your disability, tasks that you can not do for yourself, and tasks that can be done by your command. 

A PSD is in all ways a Service Dog and must meet the same qualifications and be held to the same standards of any Assistance Dog be it a Guide Dog, a Hearing Dog, or a Service Dog.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Okay...

I had 2 service dogs. One was FULLY trained and the other was on his way. 

My Rottie I trained myself. I didnt have the 10k to go to a trainer. He passed his CGC/CGN whatever abbreviation floats your boat. He was checked by the vet and cleared for work. I then went out, got a vest and ID tag as well as a Doctors note and voila. I didn speak to a couple trainer who did some testing and they wrote me letters stating the dog met the standards. 

I didnt HAVE to do the CGC as IMO it proves nothing. But I chose to do it as an activity. Gunner wouldnt of passed his CGC because he wouldnt sit alone with someone he didnt know while I the person who he helps disappears. But he would of passed anything else. 

Neither one was neutered, and that creates A LOT of drama in the service dog world because people seem to think that no balls=better trained dog when thats simply not true. My intact service dogs were better behaved then some neutered service dogs I have seen. So if yours is intact and someone tries to tell you to neuter, unless theres a reason to dont. 

My Rottie I retired after having x rays done on his hips that show issues. He was trained in task work and knew commands such as "Find the Exit", "Block" (block a person with his body who is coming in my space bubble, he responded to several alarms and when at a stop walk he stopped until I gave him his release command which was "Lets cross now". This was done because sometimes in an anxiety attack I wouldnt pay attention and would want to get out of the situation fast and sometimes wouldnt think twice before crossing, so he stopped me until he got the command which told him I was alert. 

So just because your dog helps you with anxiety doesnt mean hes a service dog. Service dogs perform tasks such as above. Mine also was able to retriever items and he was trained in a basic protection level to warn off any threats (this came in handy one day when someone tried to mug me). He was trained to react by barking at the end of his leash when I gave him the "watch it" command. He ONLY reacted if I asked him to, he knew unless he heard that command he was to stay calm. This was done so he didnt feel the need to determine whats a threat and what wasnt I.E Paramedics helping me. 

Gunner was on his way for all this and Lincoln know most of it as well BUT Link was retired for health and temperment issues I didnt feel the need to alter because he clearly wasnt happy working. So hes my emotional support animal now and I have a Docs note for that so he legally can come with me into no pets housing. 

It took me 2 years to train my Rottie...its a lot of work.


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## bjielsl (Aug 8, 2011)

ILGHAUS said:


> I am not going to say if your dog is a SD or not. But the Dept. of Justice says that a dog must be *trained* to mitigate the handler's disability. You have posted that your dog has not been trained. Based on that is why several posts have brought that fact up. Training a SD takes on the average of 18-24 months.
> 
> A doctor can write a script for an ESA/ESD based on a patient's mental health. A doctor can not write a script for a SD or proclaim a dog as a SD but only state that in their expert opinion an individual is *legally* disabled under the requirements of the ADA/Dept. of Justice.
> 
> ...



Been Going back and re-reading everything.
I have the Doctors note.
I have the Vets note.
She is scheduled for the CGC test. ( I am only worried about the approaching another dog and handler test)

I just need to get her to stop chewing her sides so she looks more presentable.

Thanks again everyone for your input, this has helped a lot. 
She now has the behavior down that if I call Panic or slap my chest, she will lay on it providing pressure to slow hyperventilation.


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