# Why German Shepherds Have Had Their Day--an interesting article..



## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/o...-that-has-had-its-day.html?_r=1&smid=fb-share

I tend to agree with the author that this is good for the breed and the people that love them. What do you guys think?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I enjoyed reading that article, it is well written. I don't think that anyone will disagree with the ideas and opinions expressed, though I found that the problems expressed due to overbreeding to be very superficial. It only addressed health issues commonly found in the breed, no word about the real downfall of the GSD, the loss of nerve strength and working drives.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

There is no real mention that there are still many well bred German Shepherds out there...


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

BR870 said:


> There is no real mention that there are still many well bred German Shepherds out there...


Yeah, I don't think it was meant to offend GSD lovers though. I just liked some of the points regarding how this might improve the quality and also bringing more and more of those traits back to the dogs. 

And I agree--there are still tons of well bred GSDs out there--there's a reason why they are so popular and always will be!


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Thanks for sharing the article, a good read!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Ok article but you can tell it was written by someone who has no working experience with the bred and was just regurgitating facts. Facts that really can be said for any popular breed. Insert "lab"or golden and change the breed facts and it could be about any breed. Doesn't really address the real issues.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

yes, true for any breed. However, those other breeds aren't getting this chance to be removed from the spotlight.

Everyone sees the GSD - in the movies, on the news, in their local paper. They want one and don't know what they are doing.

I think that a little less popularity will be a good thing. That will deter some of those breeders who are in it only for the money. Good breeders will still have their demand from knowledgeable owners.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I just thought it was interesting that the article was about how the GSD's time in the spotlight is over, and in the article he cited another article written in the 1950's about how the GSD's time in the spotlight was over.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Wasn't really much in the article - it was a better choice for the editorial page. Opinion without any facts to back it up.


Thanks to the Op - it was an interesting opinion article!


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

With article like that and more police departments going to the Mal maybe we will see over-breeding of Mals. Then there will be ASL Mals, GSL Mals, DDR Mals etc and so on....


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Would less popularity be a fix? I don't think it all depends on the dogs being bred popularity. Is the author making the argument that the popularity of a breed creates more poorly bred dogs? Maybe it does, more people get purebred GSds, put them together and produce with little understanding of the breed's characteristics and how to preseve them.

I am thinking that societal pressures may lead to the loss of original breed characteristics. What are breeders breeding for? A nice house dog? A sport competition dog? A gaiting show dog? A blind leader? A working farm dog? Where is the demand for the dog as it was closer to the breed's origination.

What is a well bred GSD by definition today?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

thanks OP. the article was food for thought.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Definitely thought provoking.


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

Thanks for your opinions guys!


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## Hagakure (Jul 26, 2011)

In Finland the Police, border guard and the army have been taking mals as working dogs too, but they haven't given up on GSDs. The reason behind this isn't that they can not find GSDs with sufficient working abilities. It's partly that mals mature faster.

A friend of mine, who's a dog trainer for the army, told me that when a GSD is "ready" around 2-3 years, a mal can be put to work a lot earlier. Thus a mal can have a longer working career and be more cost effective.

This summer a police dog attacked a passer by in Tampere, which is one of the largest cities in Finland. The police dog in question was a young malinois. I personally think that the problem with mals seems to be that they don't have enough of an off-switch. If they don't get to do work, their drives might just "burst out"


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Thanks for the article. Very thought provoking.

It reminded me of one of my pet peeves -- the proper name of our breed is the German Shepherd Dog. The words should all be capitalized. I know there are schools of thought that differ, but that is my feeling.


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

Hagakure said:


> In Finland the Police, border guard and the army have been taking mals as working dogs too, but they haven't given up on GSDs. The reason behind this isn't that they can not find GSDs with sufficient working abilities. It's partly that mals mature faster.
> 
> A friend of mine, who's a dog trainer for the army, told me that when a GSD is "ready" around 2-3 years, a mal can be put to work a lot earlier. Thus a mal can have a longer working career and be more cost effective.
> 
> This summer a police dog attacked a passer by in Tampere, which is one of the largest cities in Finland. The police dog in question was a young malinois. I personally think that the problem with mals seems to be that they don't have enough of an off-switch. If they don't get to do work, their drives might just "burst out"


Oh, I completely agree--they will always be used as excellent dogs for military and police work. I would also agree with what you are talking about with Mals. I don't think our breed will ever decline too much in popularity, but I did think the article brought a different perspective.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

lar07 said:


> Oh, I completely agree--they will always be used as excellent dogs for military and police work. I would also agree with what you are talking about with Mals. I don't think our breed will ever decline too much in popularity, but I did think the article brought a different perspective.


Yeah, I don't think it will ever be totally replaced. It will however have to share the spotlight from now on. For a long time it was THE k9. Now it will have to share that distinction with Mals and Dutchies...


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Andaka said:


> It reminded me of one of my pet peeves -- the proper name of our breed is the German Shepherd Dog. The words should all be capitalized. I know there are schools of thought that differ, but that is my feeling.


I've always thought I was neurotic for being bugged by this too! YES! I'm not the only one!


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

This is great news for our breed! I would rather there be less quantity, but higher quality dogs for us that truely love the breed. Falling out of favor with the general public means the market for $200 newspaper dogs is diminishing and those who are not enthusiast are not going to be paying $1000+ for a well bred dog. Less back yard bred German Shepherds are going to be produced, but those of us who love the breed will always be willing to go to respectable breeders and pay good money for great dogs.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Andaka said:


> Thanks for the article. Very thought provoking.
> 
> It reminded me of one of my pet peeves -- the proper name of our breed is the German Shepherd Dog. The words should all be capitalized. I know there are schools of thought that differ, but that is my feeling.


Totally agree.
Yesterday, someone asked me, "Is that a police dog?". I said, "No, she just looks like one." I hear it more from older folks: "That's a nice German Police Dog you have there." I just say thanks and move on. Don't have the time or motivation to educate the world.
The fact that they are SHEPHERD dogs seems to be forgotten. If that is what they are named then it should be what they ARE. All this police and schutzhund stuff is a secondary benefit for their all-around working ability but they are shepherd dogs first. That is what they are built for.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Its going to take a very long time for people to lose interest in GSDs and go towards Mals. Anyone with half a brain will google it and realize the difference in the two breeds and still go with a GSD, lets face it they are much better pet dogs, even the ones bred for work/sport. I have yet to see a real life malanois and I frequent dog parks in the city of Milwaukee quite often. As much as I wish that what this author says was true, its going to take a much longer time than we could hope for. And yes this is true of any breed, look at the labs and the golden's of today.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

PaddyD said:


> With article like that and more police departments going to the Mal maybe we will see over-breeding of Mals. Then there will be ASL Mals, GSL Mals, DDR Mals etc and so on....


There already are. 

And I don't even know what "over breeding" means. there are only two types of breedings; good and bad.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I have seen some very un-Mal Malinois.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

PaddyD said:


> Totally agree.
> Yesterday, someone asked me, "Is that a police dog?". I said, "No, she just looks like one." I hear it more from older folks: "That's a nice German Police Dog you have there." I just say thanks and move on. Don't have the time or motivation to educate the world.


Maybe they are the ones educating you. 

GSDs were commonly called German Police Dogs until the 1970's. I have lots of old books and articles referring to them as such. Books like this The Police Dog David Brockwell German Shepherd 1924 - All antique Books

They also used to call Belgian Shepherds (Malinois, Groenendael, Tervuren, Lankenois) Belgian Police Dogs. Here is president Hoover and his "Belgian Police Dog" King Tut.


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## SitUbuSit (Aug 1, 2011)

I find it a little amusing that she's writing this article as a way to promote her new book about Rin Tin Tin that could, conceivably, increase the GSD's popularity, which is the very trend she criticizes. 

I appreciated the article, but felt it was a little too tidy. For example, this wrap-up rings false to me:



> "...in recent years the American Kennel Club, among other organizations, has done its best to discourage [bad breeders], and to encourage adoption from shelters, which have, unfortunately, an oversupply of abandoned purebred dogs. It’s been a success, but it will never completely override our very human tendency to want those things — and animals — that have the shine of popularity."


Ahem, the AKC is doing its "best" to discourage BYBs? If so, their best is pretty pathetic. If anything, the AKC has been complicit in popularizing BYBs disguised as reputable breeders. In my opinion, we are FAR from "success" when it comes to stopping BYBs and getting the population of GSDs in shelters down to a sustainable level. 

Her Rin Tin Tin book has received lukewarm-to-negative reviews, btw. Critics say it is too much about her, and not enough about the actual dog. Why am I not surprised...


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

martemchik said:


> Its going to take a very long time for people to lose interest in GSDs and go towards Mals. Anyone with half a brain will google it and realize the difference in the two breeds and still go with a GSD, lets face it they are much better pet dogs, even the ones bred for work/sport. I have yet to see a real life malanois and I frequent dog parks in the city of Milwaukee quite often.


Wow, that's a really strong opinion on a breed that you have never seen and can't even spell. :crazy:


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## [email protected] (Jun 18, 2010)

Samba said:


> Would less popularity be a fix? I don't think it all depends on the dogs being bred popularity. Is the author making the argument that the popularity of a breed creates more poorly bred dogs? Maybe it does, more people get purebred GSds, put them together and produce with little understanding of the breed's characteristics and how to preseve them.
> 
> I am thinking that societal pressures may lead to the loss of original breed characteristics. What are breeders breeding for? A nice house dog? A sport competition dog? A gaiting show dog? A blind leader? A working farm dog? Where is the demand for the dog as it was closer to the breed's origination.
> 
> What is a well bred GSD by definition today?


Thank you for making this point. I believe that trying to fit the GSD into so many categories to appeal to the needs of various people may have lead to not only overbreeding, but breeding to characteristics inconsistent with its greatest strengths. 

Unfortunately, the GSD does not control its brand like other marketable items. A Ferrari is a great car. But it is not for everyone. Ferrari doesn't make lower performing cars to expand its appeal or market to grandmas who will only drive 55 mph. 

But if you do a search for GSD breeders, you get working lines, companion, family, supersized, show lines, etc. While I agree that over breeding is a problem, I think the purposeful dilution of the core characteristics to appeal to more people may be the real problem when it comes to finding a quality dog.


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

lar07 said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/o...-that-has-had-its-day.html?_r=1&smid=fb-share
> 
> I tend to agree with the author that this is good for the breed and the people that love them. What do you guys think?


I agree....especially with what we have been through the last 5 months.


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

German Shepherd Dog


The enormous popularity of this breed has resulted in careless breeding that has crippled the German Shepherd Dog with a whole catalog of genetic diseases.​


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## guitarest (Jun 22, 2005)

GSDLoverII said:


> German Shepherd Dog
> 
> 
> The enormous popularity of this breed has resulted in careless breeding that has crippled the German Shepherd Dog with a whole catalog of genetic diseases.​


This is what eventually ended up killing King. At the time when I purchased King I did not know what a puppy mill was or even a backyard breeder. I was not knowledgeable at all since most of my GSD's have been rescues with the exception of Sheba who was purchased across the pond while I was stationed there. I did not investigate the breeder and assumed that since he came with CKC paperwork (which I really didnt care) meant he was guaranteed as a better pup with higher standards. My pup was was raised in a rabbit cage with his litter mates and I have learned such a hard lesson. The breeder is no longer in business and King passed a few years ago due to multiple problems that were all examples of a poor breeding program. My daughter and I did allot of research on Blitz, his breeder, the BBB; the internet etc to hopefully not go through the same pain we had with King. 

The problem with the breed and I say this addressing a larger problem is the backyard breeders and those puppy mills. We have many breeders here and I dare say some are the back yard type who only breed for the cash and careless about the adopters or the product and just do it for the money. When I went through the adoption process with Blitz I could only hope adopting a baby was as difficult. I know my daughter experienced the exact same thing with a different breeder and this says allot for the breeder and their product. While I fight my battle locally by contacting congressional parties and the Humane Society to report suspected puppymills and larger backyard breeders I also post regularly on Craigs List since almost every puppy sold there is from those who I hate the most.


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

Honestly, I had no idea just how popular the GSD was until we started researching them. Here in the Houston 'burbs, you just don't see that many. In fact, I think Teddy might be the only one here in my neighborhood, but - boy! - do we have a lot of retriever and retriever mixes. Where are these GSDs?

My daughter doesn't see any in her Houston 'burb, either. Yet they must be somewhere!


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## Ingrid (Aug 29, 2010)

*Originally Posted by GSDLoverII *
_'The enormous popularity of this breed has resulted in careless breeding that has crippled the German Shepherd Dog with a whole catalog of genetic diseases.'_​ 
Agreed. Most veterinarians when asked 'What breed is subject to the most genetic disorders?' will answer...​
*The German Shepherd Dog:* German Shepherds are subject to over 100 genetic disorders, some found in no other breed. Some of the German-Shepherd specific disorders include footpad softness, focal spinal muscular atrophy, giant axonal neuropathy, lumbosacral vertebral stenosis and juvenile hyperparathyroidism. Some of the disorders found almost exclusively in the German Shepherd include degenerative myelopathy, perianal fistulas, glycogen storage disease type III, pannus, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth with immunoglobulin A deficiency, hemivertebra, masticatory muscle myositis and pituitary dwarfism. Some disorders with a high incidence in German Shepherds include epilepsy, hip dysplasia, myasthenia gravis and elbow dysplasia. 

Breed popularity comes with a price. To have fewer GSDs land in shelters, many with severe health and genetic behavioral problems, because 'they've had their day' would be a wonderful thing.


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