# Training with tug toys



## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

What do you guys recommend as far as material and size? I've been avoiding tugs because of teething. Pup is 5 months old and seems to have his adult teeth. Although some are still growing.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I don't know if this is the type of toy you are asking about, I think you might mean for bite work. There is nothing my pup wont do for his chuck it kick ball! I can play with my feet, or fetch, we run around while i try to tap it out of his mouth or pull it and he loves to play tug with it to. If you play tug with it one handed he loves it cause he knows my grip is poor lol. We have invented some fun games with it and he gets all pumped up. I get a super fast down if i have that ball in my hand. Wish i knew how to make that happen without the ball. I'd say it is both of our favorite you. HTH


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Favorite toy* 
*can't see how to edit from my phone


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

I started with a rag, then firehose. 10". Then I went to jute rolls. I now use jute balls from elite k9 .


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Not necessarily bite work apex but as a reward. His obedience is coming along pretty well but I want to start using tugs as opposed to treats, which I use sparingly as is.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> I started with a rag, then firehose. 10". Then I went to jute rolls. I now use jute balls from elite k9 .


 did you have any problem with the firehose tearing apart? They seem to be easy to find online but I wasn't sure how durable they'd be


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## Kalie92 (Aug 17, 2017)

We've rolled a towel up and tied it with hair ties for our four month old, she plays with it all day and night, most often on her own n with it. On the odd occasion she'll bring it towards us to play with her, but most of the time she just loves tossing it up in the air and knawing on it. Hope this helps.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

I use a large size kong with a rope tied through it. The kong is the greatest dog toy ever made. While I have tugs with handles, I find the Kong to be the best reward for my dogs.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

thegooseman90 said:


> did you have any problem with the firehose tearing apart? They seem to be easy to find online but I wasn't sure how durable they'd be


I didn't let him chew on it. Bite, tug, done. Its held up well.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Slamdunc said:


> I use a large size kong with a rope tied through it. The kong is the greatest dog toy ever made. While I have tugs with handles, I find the Kong to be the best reward for my dogs.


I found that using a tug as a reward was easier. Helped him target better. When I used a ball on a rope, he'd bite the rope.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Any softer, stuffed tug is going to tear at some point, so once my dog is outing clean and re-biting hard I quit using those except for this rubber one:
Stick / Twig | RuffDawg

I use these all the time, but I cut the handles off. One of the things I like about both of them is that they slide easily into my back pocket:

Dog Tug Toy - Flat Rolled Leather | All K-9

Your dog has to bite hard to keep that rolled leather, so you may not want to use that at first, but they last. I've had 2 of them for a few years now.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Are you training for bitework or just using tug as a reward in general? If you are doing bitework, don't do like I did and make a plastic toy their favorite tug. My she-dog doesn't enjoy a fabric tug and prefers plastic toys. This is fine if I use a ball on a rope but if she needed to work a bite sleeve it might be a problem. 

Otherwise you'll just have to experiment until you find something you both agree with. For my she-dog I put the ball on a rope in a back pocket. For our big boy we have a two handled 6 inch jute tug that fits behind our back. 

If you use a tug try to find one you can get both hands on. The more you can control the tug the better your pup can target, the less likely you'll get nipped. 

If you want to use a toy on a rope consider having two. That way you can work your "outs" by swapping between toys. When pup lets go of one, you offer the second. That way letting go of the prize is still fun.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Kalie92 said:


> We've rolled a towel up and tied it with hair ties for our four month old, she plays with it all day and night, most often on her own n with it. On the odd occasion she'll bring it towards us to play with her, but most of the time she just loves tossing it up in the air and knawing on it. Hope this helps.


You don't want to leave her alone with something like that Kalie. At some point most dogs are going to zero in on the seems or the hair ties and they can eat them and get a blockage. I'd even worry about the unraveling of the material. My rule of thumb is if they can't safely eat it, they don't get to chew on it.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

cloudpump said:


> I found that using a tug as a reward was easier. Helped him target better. When I used a ball on a rope, he'd bite the rope.


Maybe not always, but I know most of the time when Doc gets the rope its because the subtle way the ball is moving.


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Ball on a rope - Petsport USA Fling Thing Tennis Ball With Rope I got a 3 pack for $14 ish so look around but this has held up very well.

Two handle tug - French Linen Dog Tug Toy (3" x 10") 2 Handles RedLine K9 This has also held up well but she bites, tugs a bit then outs, so she's not left with it to find the seams and such.

If you're trying to develop for bitework, on my IPO trainers recommendation I loop a cheap Dollartree leash through the handle to give my pup a little more space. Reduces the dominant position of her still being young (6 months) and me towering over her, helps her build confidence and not be concerned about my presence till I give a command (getting aggressive in the pack leaders face). 

That's a big part of why I like the ball on a rope (besides how far you can throw it with minimal effort), lets me play fetch and a bit of tug with some space. But with the ball on a rope I like to get down on her level extend my arm out and turn slightly away to maximize our distance. 

I'm not sure any of the above matters with your dog though, I'm just trying to maximize intensity/aggression/drive during the game. And thus build her confidence and help her maintain some possessiveness for the dumbell retrieve. 

Man I'm all over the place with different training objectives and purposes, hope most of that made sense LOL

ETA: Slamdunk's suggestion of a kong on the end of knotted rope is a FANTASTIC idea. Definitely going to do that once my current toys wear out


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## Kalie92 (Aug 17, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> You don't want to leave her alone with something like that Kalie. At some point most dogs are going to zero in on the seems or the hair ties and they can eat them and get a blockage. I'd even worry about the unraveling of the material. My rule of thumb is if they can't safely eat it, they don't get to chew on it.


Thank you for your advice. We don't usually let her have it unless her teeth are playing up, so we're there watching her play with it. We have rope toys and Kong's for her too, which we put in the freezer to cool them down, which seem to work a treat.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Ah, when you said all day and night, I took that literally. You just meant she likes it a lot, Lol.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Let me start by thanking each of you for your contributions. One of the topics I see brought up is whether I'm training for bitework, and the answer is not exactly. At this time I don't feel I'm qualified so I'll leave that to the trainer and do whatever he says at home. Right now I'm just using it for motivation/reward. I like the idea of the balls/kongs because he goes nuts for them but a lot of the videos I see people use tugs. Also it's not something he'd have access to at all times. In fact the only time he has toys is when I play with him. 

I like the idea slam had for the rope on the kong and I will try that in the morning because I have all the stuff for it. 

But for those of you who mentioned targeting and creating intensity and possessiveness with the tugs do you mind to explain it a bit further? I have no experience training in bite work and don't want to mess anything up.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Finn likes the lg size Kong Squeek ball.

So for tug, I stuff a kong ball inside a knee sock, tie a knot...and use it for tug. 
Good to use for fetch too cuz I can throw it really far.

Ps. There's some really good info on the web re playing tug with your dog. Inc safety tips.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

thegooseman90 said:


> But for those of you who mentioned targeting and creating intensity and possessiveness with the tugs do you mind to explain it a bit further? I have no experience training in bite work and don't want to mess anything up.


this gal is very generous with her tips. She gives great advice for free but also sells video training tips. She does sports but her ideas also apply to well trained pets. Articles | The Collared Scholar

To build possessiveness means that the toy is important to them. The dog will work harder to get the reward. They'll pay more attention to you because they want to play with the toy with you, pay for their work. No tug will work if the dog doesn't care or thinks "why bother, I never win".

Targeting means they know where to bite the tug, not your hand.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

thegooseman90 said:


> Let me start by thanking each of you for your contributions. One of the topics I see brought up is whether I'm training for bitework, and the answer is not exactly. At this time I don't feel I'm qualified so I'll leave that to the trainer and do whatever he says at home. Right now I'm just using it for motivation/reward. I like the idea of the balls/kongs because he goes nuts for them but a lot of the videos I see people use tugs. Also it's not something he'd have access to at all times. In fact the only time he has toys is when I play with him.
> 
> I like the idea slam had for the rope on the kong and I will try that in the morning because I have all the stuff for it.
> 
> But for those of you who mentioned targeting and creating intensity and possessiveness with the tugs do you mind to explain it a bit further? I have no experience training in bite work and don't want to mess anything up.


I'd take it easy with possessiveness. That's basically where you contest him for the actual toy. Intensity, focus, desire, but possessiveness with a toy and you can just be conflict if you get carried away. One thing where using a larger toy like a Kong can come in handy if you decide to do more later on is that they get used to opening their mouth wide to get a good bite.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Steve Strom said:


> I'd take it easy with possessiveness. That's basically where you contest him for the actual toy. Intensity, focus, desire, but possessiveness with a toy and you can just be conflict if you get carried away. One thing where using a larger toy like a Kong can come in handy if you decide to do more later on is that they get used to opening their mouth wide to get a good bite.


Yes, be careful creating too much possessiveness. I am cross training Boru for narcotics detection now. We start out with rolled up towels and reward with that. Boru has a ton of drive, over the top drive. When doing towel throws in a field he was great. Once we progressed to buildings the drive for the towel is gone. He switches to "search" basically seek and destroy when entering buildings. He is a very myopic dog that thinks he will find a bad guy or decoy in every building he enters. Which is perfect for a single purpose patrol dog, not so great for a dual purpose dog that has trouble switching gears. 

I started playing tug with him to develop some more drive to hold and possess the towel. He knows the narcotics odors, finds them very quickly, acknowledges them and then switches right back to hunt mode for people. It is an interesting phenomena to watch, very frustrating to work. I never played tug with him before, because I wanted to avoid conflict over toys. It took 2 months to get him to reliably out a toy with out conflict and not come up the leash, when I first got him. 

Now, I need to build drive for the towel and the tug of war did it. Until we were training near our firearms range and there was lots of gunfire. Then a military helicopter flew overhead. Keep in mind, Boru was basically a washout after a couple of months training with a high end Military team. He did not function well in a multiple handler environment and bit several handlers. So, I tell him to out his toy and he is up the leash. A behavior I haven't seen in a long time. We have a come to Jesus meeting and it happens again. Then things go ok during that training session, until the end when I went to walk him away. We had another meeting and things have been fine since. I also no longer use towels, he is paid with a kong on a rope and there is no tug of war. 

Creating that possessiveness backfired on me, just a little. It's only been three weeks of narcotics training and the last few days things are starting to click.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

I'm not sure if it's the same thing but I've been trying to create desire for the toy by only letting him have toys when I play with him. I don't fight him for it but we always end play time before he's ready to stop. I dont want to mess with him a lot in bite work or agitation because of fear I'll create problems that aren't there yet. I'll wait to work with the trainer there. 

I tried the kong on a rope this morning and we have a winner! As soon as he saw it he started flying thru the air after it. Got him settled down and he was lightening quick to obey commands. Focus on the toy was pretty intense. He didn't want to bring this thing back. He pranced around me defiantly early on. So out came the long line and we got our recall back but you can tell this one really excites him. I have some old towels I'm going cut and roll up later on and give those a try too.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

nice, do a little warm up before your pup takes up flying lessons. Watch those growing joints.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

car2ner said:


> nice, do a little warm up before your pup takes up flying lessons. Watch those growing joints.


 that's the first time I've seen him that excited over a toy. Before I ever even threw it once. I don't know what made him want it so bad. I'm hoping to get some time to look read thru some of the articles from your link tonight.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

thegooseman90 said:


> car2ner said:
> 
> 
> > nice, do a little warm up before your pup takes up flying lessons. Watch those growing joints.
> ...


Have you done any work with a flirt pole? Also great for training in drive.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

cdwoodcox said:


> thegooseman90 said:
> 
> 
> > car2ner said:
> ...


 as a pup I did. come to think of it I'm not really sure why I stopped.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

thegooseman90 said:


> as a pup I did. come to think of it I'm not really sure why I stopped.


Just make sure if you are going to get out the flirt pole, you let your puppy warm up. Don't need him going all out cold.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> Just make sure if you are going to get out the flirt pole, you let your puppy warm up. Don't need him going all out cold.


 this is the second time I've seen this in this thread. I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't ever thought about it. What's a good warm up?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

thegooseman90 said:


> this is the second time I've seen this in this thread. I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't ever thought about it. What's a good warm up?


I just get mine out moving. Some free play, a little obedience. Just get the heart rate up. I think we forget that these dogs with drive will power through a lot.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> I just get mine out moving. Some free play, a little obedience. Just get the heart rate up. I think we forget that these dogs with drive will power through a lot.


 it makes sense. Can't believe I never thought of it before. I started with a leashed walk around the block today and then brought out the kongs. I'm really shocked by how much he loves this kong with the rope on it. On its own he never paid much attention to it. I went ahead and ordered some jute balls to try out too.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

firehose is very tough on tooth enamel....french linen, suede are better choices IMO


Lee


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I stretch Doc like this before we do anything but walk, and I walk him around after working and playing with him too, for a cool down.
4 Simple Dog Stretching Exercises


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

wolfstraum said:


> firehose is very tough on tooth enamel....french linen, suede are better choices IMO
> 
> 
> Lee


How about jute? I just ordered some jute balls 



Steve Strom said:


> I stretch Doc like this before we do anything but walk, and I walk him around after working and playing with him too, for a cool down.
> 4 Simple Dog Stretching Exercises


That would be interesting to try that with my pup lol


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

They end up liking it after a while. Its just part of our routine now.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

@thegooseman90, that is one of the reasons I always have two kongs on s rope to start. If you only have one and the dog is in drive, once he has the toy he may be reluctant to recall. Rather than use a long line, I use a s cons toy.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

*** should be, _I use a second toy._


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Slamdunc said:


> @thegooseman90, that is one of the reasons I always have two kongs on s rope to start. If you only have one and the dog is in drive, once he has the toy he may be reluctant to recall. Rather than use a long line, I use a s cons toy.


 good thinking. I'll get some extra kongs because nothing else cuts it now. He'd rather the kong over any of his other toys for the time being. Crazy how much of a difference it made adding a piece or rope to it.


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