# Update on prong collar training



## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

The Prong collar is a-m-a-z-i-n-g! 

My walks with Drake are 100pct better and satisfying! I had my doubts about the prong collar. But, since we have been to a couple training classes using it...his response to it is great. 

He no longer pulls me on walks, walks towards a house with barking dogs, stops to check out a biker or jogger.

This morning there was a rabbit about 15 ft from us. We started walking past it and Drake growled at it. I said "Heel, and gave a jerk with the leash. He just looked forward and continued walking. 

I know prong collars are not for every dog but Drake was a dog that needed it! I never in a million years thought I'd be a person to use one but now I am extremely happy we gave it a try.

I love taking Drake for walks now. Yay!

Yes, he is still a happy loving dog after using it.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

That is great to know, have been considering one perhaps too, but I am still not sure.


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

I hear you on that one!!! I LOVE the prong collar and I started using it on my 2 Cairn Terriers as well and I can walk all 3 pleasantly now without getting tangled up in the leashes and my 2 sled (Cairns) pulling. I still have people telling me how horrible they are, they hurt the dog BLAH BLAH BLAH but through my own experience, knowledge and research I know better. 

I would never not use a prong collar.


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: DozerI hear you on that one!!! I LOVE the prong collar and I started using it on my 2 Cairn Terriers as well and I can walk all 3 pleasantly now without getting tangled up in the leashes and my 2 sled (Cairns) pulling. I still have people telling me how horrible they are, they hurt the dog BLAH BLAH BLAH but through my own experience, knowledge and research I know better.
> 
> I would never not use a prong collar.


My trainer actually says prong collar is more humane then a choke collar which could damage their trachea (neck) area if yanked too hard with corrections. 

The prong is made to be tighter it shouldn't slip or twist around the neck. It has to sit higher up then his other collar. 

When I was purchasing it the cashier guy just lectured about how he doesn't approve of the prong collar, yadda, yadda. That he works at a shelter some days.

I just rolled my eyes and left. I listened to our trainer and it is working excellent!


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## babyjake (Jul 14, 2008)

Schotzi...

Sounds like my dog too. I was very skeptical of the prong collar, I guess the way it looked initally turned me off.

But he has totally changed on his walks. No barking at other barking dogs as we walk by their home. He'll heel by my side when greeting new people on the walk. Even my sig. other is surprised on how well he walks with her.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

For people reading and considering, there ARE other ways to get this type of response from puppies using motivational methods. Not saying you shouldn't use a prong (though I AM bordering on saying that at 5 months







) but you can use clickers, relationship based, and other methods. 

I don't have the clicker stuff down, but where I have taken puppies or young dogs, we use food or toy lures and making ourselves more interesting than the thing the puppy is distracted by. It's more work for sure but after putting my first dog through more compulsive methods, I like trying to go as positive as possible for as long as possible. So the dog learns and is able to do those behaviors on their own, without a correction. 

End of advertisement for the Volhard and other methods.









Also not arguing that it isn't better than a choke chain.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

Where did you guys get your prong colars, is there a certain type better than others. I need to do something to but I am scared of chockers and the prong looks bad, but like you said looks are deceiving.


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

Heidi, I would not just put one on if not working with a trainer to guide you. For those of you who it worked for great







and I"m not arguing or debating that you're using one, many folks do with great success but it made matters worse with Gracie - who is unbelieveably stubborn. Our (old) trainer actually cut Gracie's neck in 2 places from the force of the correction. Just like any tool, be careful when you use it and know how to use it correctly (or as Norm says, be sure to read and follow all safety instructions







)


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## babyjake (Jul 14, 2008)

I actually got mine at Fleet Farm which is a farm superstore up here. My trainer properly fitted it for me and showed me how to use it.

You can also add more links or take links out depending on the fit. They also sell rubber tips for the prong ends. You can find one at Petco or Petsmart


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

I agree with Jen. I would first see a trainer. I would have never used one without working with Drake's trainer first. But, we got ours at a Tractor Supply store. It was cheaper then other places.

I had to take some prongs off because the collar was loose but will be good for when Drake grows so I can add the prongs back on.

Good luck!


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANFor people reading and considering, there ARE other ways to get this type of response from puppies using motivational methods. Not saying you shouldn't use a prong (though I AM bordering on saying that at 5 months
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Drake is a big pup now at 6 months. Some people are shocked that he is 6months. They tend to think he is older, lol. With me being preggo it has made our walks a breeze. I have faith in our trainer though!







I do like positive training as well with treats, etc. We do positive training at his classes. LOTS and lots of praising!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I have been skeptical about prongs as well. Now that I have two GSD's and neither of them have the best training, I am starting to give prongs some consideration. I would Love to walk them together at the park, but at this point they are each a handful on their own and I wouldn't dare attempt to take them together. Do the rubber tips make the corrections softer? Both of my dogs are considered 'soft' dogs but Zisso is not nearly as soft as Naudia. I had a chance to try a fursaver last weekend, and liked it too. But for walks I am thinking that prongs might be the way, especially so I can take them together and not get tangled, make a bad impression on the public and want to enjoy the time we get to spend there.


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

I didn't know about the rubber tips! Thanks.


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## vomonyxhaus (Feb 15, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JenM66Heidi, I would not just put one on if not working with a trainer to guide you. For those of you who it worked for great
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If the the so called "trainer" cut her neck in two places she/he hasn't a clue of how the collar is to be used..... which is why it probably made matters worse for your dog. And I am truly sorry that happened....

BUt on to the which one do you think is better Question..... I have a Made in Germany by Herm Sprenger model that is over 20 years old and is still in great shape....and it is only the chrome plated one and not the stainless..... It has been in the ocean many times and has only minimal surface rust... so that is one that I prefer..the ones from petsmart or the like get rusty quick when taking the dogs swimming in saltwater or fresh....
Plus mine has a quick release unlike the cheap ones from the pet stores..... Best price seems to be @ http://www.fordogtrainers.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2271


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Schotzi
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANFor people reading and considering, there ARE other ways to get this type of response from puppies using motivational methods. Not saying you shouldn't use a prong (though I AM bordering on saying that at 5 months
> ...


He's in your signature at 5 months right now.









I still would like to emphasize that teaching your dog what you want is really a great way of getting them to do what you want them to do-and you can do that without a prong for most dogs. 

Unless this is like the Shamwow thread for prongs.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

I never used a chock or prong on all my past GSDs, just the flat colar. They had minimum training too but they were just welbehaved and smart. Now Bella gets nervouse and wants to flee on walks at times and not sure why. When she walks past certain homes or see certain people or dogs. I just added Bo to my home and some day soon I will walk them together right now just in the drive way for practice. Bo is big he just got his vet check up today is 47 pounds and almost 4 months. I plan to bring him for the local puppy socialzation classes and i will ask the trainer there for help on the colar if I do decide to do that.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks for that link, looks like a good one.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

While I love the prong collar because I'm lazy and it saves me grief I do have to say that your dog is behaving on the threat of being uncomfortable, not because they want to.

Now that I'm training her for her therapy dog test she has to be on a flat buckle collar only. So I do not have any other choice but to change directions while she's healing so she learns to always pay attention to me. When she lunges at a cat we have to redirect her attention and work on Leave It.

I'm all for a prong collar if you get into a stage where your dog is being stubborn and needs added correction like mine was but once your dog knows the commands I highly recommend practicing the command on a flat collar so you know your dog will actually obey. 

I still will use it in places where I feel I need extra control over her such as a horse show but we're working hard to break MY dependence on the prong collar.


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## Dannay (Oct 31, 2006)

Schotzi, I completely agree with you. My wife is pregnant with twins, and is able to walk both of our GSDs with no problem since we switched them to the prong. It is so less stressful, and we really enjoy walking them now. We didn't really have much of a problem before on the flat collar, but Atlas liked to try his luck and pull every so often, and when you have a big strong dog pulling on the lead every chance he gets, it can hurt the shoulder after a while.

We've found that even after just a few walks with the prong collar, I can switch them back to the flat collar for other training from time to time and they are a lot better on that too now, so it's really paid off.



> Originally Posted By: SchotziThe Prong collar is a-m-a-z-i-n-g!
> 
> My walks with Drake are 100pct better and satisfying! I had my doubts about the prong collar. But, since we have been to a couple training classes using it...his response to it is great.
> 
> ...


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

The vet keeps warning me about Bo, he is going to be very big he needs lot of training and socializing etc, scaring me, he is so sweet right now and easy going and does not pull but he is just 15 weeks old.


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Schotzi
> ...



He just turned 6 months old few days ago. I changed my signature so there is no confusion. I was making this thread to show that my dog is doing well with the prong collar, not to promote prong collars. As I said before I was always hesitant to use them but after our training classes he is doing great. 

Anyways, I am done with this thread. I didn't come here to get bashed for using a prong collar.

We treat our dog great and he gets lots of positive training. I do not think using a prong for walks is a horrible thing.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

Jillian,

Don't take the remarks personally, I don't think they are bashing.

I was really happy you started this thread and it helped me alot.

so thanks for telling us your experince!

I like everyones opinions too. 

Bella has this fleeing issue and I will have two GSD to walk sometime soon, so there are people here it works for. I am glad to know this.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Virtually any tool can be used in a positive and proper way, just like any tool can be used as a torture device. At the end of the day, anything that gets our dogs out of the house more while assisting us with having control is outstanding provided we are not yanking and cranking the crap out of the dogs. Just because a prong is used does not mean you have to try and tear the dogs head off. Use your treats/toys to teach focus and position while having the prong as a backup.


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

I got mine on dog.com. It is a Herm Sprenger. I got the one with the quick release which is so much easier.

I have researched prong collars a lot b/c I was skeptical as well but I failed to find any real facts about damage caused by them unless used wrong. I found a lot about how flat and chokers damage the dog's windpipe.

I do not even need the prong with Dozer anymore b/c along with the prong I did a lot of obedience training but I still use it for reassurance if I need it. It comes in handy if he decides there are certain people he wants to bark at.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jillian...no one is bashing you for using a prong collar. I have one and use it often as stated. My point was that if you don't switch to a flat collar then your dog isn't really trained. The prong collar is a training tool. I'm finding that out right now. It certainly makes my life easier to have used it to train her to a certain point but now we're on to the next step. And it's a step not everyone is interested in taking. 

Jean is 100% correct. There are other ways to train without using a prong collar. She's just stating a fact, not bashing you. 

If I were 8 months pregnant I would certainly use one, not only for training but for your own safety. Jax has brought me to my knees before when she lunged and she was only about 50# at the time.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

Dozer,

Thanks, Bella is car sick, and I can't bring her to OB, wish I could stinks. I want to bring Bo. Not to many local places near me.
Did you go and where?


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

I took him to Finlayson's in Concord. She is really good. I did a lot of it myself b/c I had gone through OB with my Cairns so I knew how to do it.

When Dozer is on a flat collar he is fine, sometimes he pulls a little but if I tell him to " wait" he slows down. I use "wait" instead of heel, like I am saying "wait for me" I can actually take him into public places and hang the leash over his back and he will wait for me. I had him in Agway the other day, my arms were full so I used this all the way to the counter to check out, people were very impressed. If he looked like he was going to wonder off I would say "wait" and he would look at me and wait for me so he was next to me. When I started this with the prong, I would use "wait" and a quick check and he would wait. He started associating "wait" with staying near me so I went with it.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I don't see any bashing on this thread. When you start a thread in the training section on a particular type of training method you can expect others to join in with their opinions. I think the point Jean and others were trying to make is that a prong is not recommended for puppies and that it is a training tool, that it can be harmful for some dogs and that it should not be considered the solution for teaching your dog to walk nicely on a leash.









My favorite training tool is the Sense-ation harness. It allows you excellent control of your dog and is 100% safe. It was the only thing that helped me train Basu not to pull. 

My experiences with the prong:

Chama has extremely high prey drive and is built like a tank and 13 years ago I did start her on a prong, instead of a choker, because I was told prongs were more humane. She has a very thick neck and the prong, fortunately, did not do any damage and did allow pretty much anyone to walk her. However, it did not train her to walk nicely on a leash; if she didn't have the prong on, she didn't walk nicely. I don't remember the prong causing her pain but my training methods 13 years ago were still very corrective/negative based so I really wouldn't remember. Eventually I had to teach her to walk nicely on a flat collar using all of the regular methods. 

Basu was a mess when I adopted him and even on a prong pulled like every walk was his last. He actually bolted while on his prong (he was very fearful when I adopted him) and the prong poked holes in his neck.







So it wasn't at all effective for him. 

Recently I was at a german shepherd event and a very nice woman had her very nice gsd on a prong. She said that her dog needed it. At one point the dog lunged for something and she can gave a sharp pull on the prong. The dog yelped and the woman said to me, "See, I told you she needed it." Instead of teaching her dog not to lunge she punished her for doing so. This is why I no longer use a prong collar, because with a sharp correction I know I might cause pain to my dog and I do not want to do this. I also want to teach my dog the correct behavior instead of punishing for the behavior I don't want.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

When Jax wants to lunge at a cat she could care less about the prong collar. Sierra will go to the end of choke collar and keep on going. She's better with a prong but will still pull regardless of her discomfort. Just because Drake is behaving with the prong now does not mean he always will. 

So keep doing your positive training and use the prong as it was intended. I know first hand that it's easy to use it as a crutch.


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## mkewish (Sep 2, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANFor people reading and considering, there ARE other ways to get this type of response from puppies using motivational methods. Not saying you shouldn't use a prong (though I AM bordering on saying that at 5 months
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I personally don't like the idea of prong collars, but I had the same problems with Jake, pulling, barking, etc.

I used a gentle leader, it only took 2 walks to straighten him out. I don't even have to use it anymore.

Just another option.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

What is Finlayson's ? sorry never heard of it. I am 20 min to concord not to far.

Yea now I am scared of the prong. Don't want to hurt my baby. 

where do you get this:

Sense-ation harness


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Here is the Sense-ation harness: http://www.softouchconcepts.com/products/sense_sation_harness.html

Gentle Leader also makes one like this called the "Easy Walk" harness but the Sense-ation is better made and you can have it fitted exactly to your dog, if necessary. Also, Rafi chewed his up and I sent it back and they repaired it for me for a very reasonable price.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

Thanks Ruth, I just added that to my favorites and will read up on it. Looks good.


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

Finlayson's is where I go to OB class.
http://finlaysonspetcare.com/Grooming.aspx


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08Jillian...no one is bashing you for using a prong collar. I have one and use it often as stated. My point was that if you don't switch to a flat collar then your dog isn't really trained. The prong collar is a training tool. I'm finding that out right now. It certainly makes my life easier to have used it to train her to a certain point but now we're on to the next step. And it's a step not everyone is interested in taking.
> 
> Jean is 100% correct. There are other ways to train without using a prong collar. She's just stating a fact, not bashing you.
> 
> If I were 8 months pregnant I would certainly use one, not only for training but for your own safety. Jax has brought me to my knees before when she lunged and she was only about 50# at the time.


Drake wheres is flat collar as well. I only use the prong collar for our long walks. I understand what you are saying as far as eventually switching back to his flat collar on walks. I will be so happy when he can walk with not using his prong collar anymore. While his class continues I will continue the prong collar on walks.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I worked with Jax on a flat collar last night at the stables. She very familiar with the place but it's also where she goes after the cats so it was a 2 for 1 lesson. She managed to focus on me long enough to ignore several of the cats she just doesn't seem to like there.

I kept weaving, as was suggested in another very recent thread, so she never knew which way I was going. I wish I had started that a year ago. If you are able I would strongly recommend starting that now with him, even if it's in your back yard. You can do this with the prong collar on also while on your walks.


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

I know there is lots of methods out there (collars). I just wanted to state that I didn't have to once jerk at Drake's leash today on our walk. I think we are making great progess. I have faith he will walk on his flat collar very soon.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Nobody says you cannot have two leashes and collars as well - one on a prong and one on a flat collar. Use both when neccesary. Staying one step ahead of your dog and mixing things up is a good thing.


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08I worked with Jax on a flat collar last night at the stables. She very familiar with the place but it's also where she goes after the cats so it was a 2 for 1 lesson. She managed to focus on me long enough to ignore several of the cats she just doesn't seem to like there.
> 
> I kept weaving, as was suggested in another very recent thread, so she never knew which way I was going. I wish I had started that a year ago. If you are able I would strongly recommend starting that now with him, even if it's in your back yard. You can do this with the prong collar on also while on your walks.


I think we are learning something similar as to what you call weaving. 

Drake's last class we started in the "heel" command and began to walk, then we did a circle and continued walking in the direction we were originally heading. This is to get the dogs focus back and not on a running cat or jogger.


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ZeusGSDNobody says you cannot have two leashes and collars as well - one on a prong and one on a flat collar. Use both when neccesary. Staying one step ahead of your dog and mixing things up is a good thing.


Thats a great idea. I didn't think of using two leashes. We do keep his flat collar on while he wears his prong above it. 

thanks!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sounds that way. Read this thread...It was very helpful to me!

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1102097&page=1#Post1102097

And (off topic) this thread too. I really liked Lauri's advice. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1100934&page=1#Post1100934


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

Thanks Michelle.









I am too working on his "leave it" command. Especially when him and the cat are playing around. It wouldn't bother me so much if Muffin's head wasn't in Drake's mouth at times. If the cat really hated it he would never come back upstairs or sit by Drake. But, guess what he always comes back for more! lol They have a weird brotherly love...

It's hard to block Muffin from Drake in my house. There really is no way of seperating them unless I put Drake in his crate or shut Muffin away in a bedroom.


I need to re-read that first link you gave me.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I used to beat up my little brother too...until he grew to be 6'-4". Then I joined the track team.


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## JillyBean08 (May 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08I used to beat up my little brother too...until he grew to be 6'-4". Then I joined the track team.



lol! 

I am sure Muffin wont be having sooo much fun once Drake hits 100lbs.









I swear those two drive me crazy!


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## Reddog801 (May 19, 2009)

Jillian,

Thanks for your post and for sharing your experience. I think we all here know that there are hundreds of different ways of training our dogs. One is not necessarily better than the other. I posted earlier in another thread today that I just purchased the prong collar. I work with K9's every night and get to talk with their handlers on a constant basis. The main reason I purchased it was because my shepherd is very hyper, tends to pull hard on the leash even though I have been working with him on stopping that and becoming more relaxed on walks and during training. Once I properly fitted it and decided to take him on a quick walk to see how he would react to it, it was fantastic. I had to use it like 3 times and with that it was a quick pop and nothing rough or harmful. I used my heel command and he done just that. After the 2nd time he realized that hey what I am doing is not what I am suppose to be doing and he straightened up. Again, first walk with the collar and he reacted very well to it. I am using it as a "TRAINING AID" and see no issues with it. For those that believe they need to baby and positively re-enforce their dogs I say great, however it is not for everyone. I do a lot of training with Trooper that does not involve the use of the prong collar. Trooper is 7 months old and doing well, the collar will be a huge asset to our training.

Thanks for your story and I wish you luck on your training and use of the collar and please let us know how drake is doing as you advance your training.




> Originally Posted By: Schotzi
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
> ...


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Eric,

I can see you're feeling defensive. As many of have posted (in this thread and elsewhere) we have first hand experience with the prong collar. I personally don't think it's the worst thing in the world but prefer a front clip harness over it these days, if I have to use a training collar. 

I had to laugh at your use of the term "baby" though: most of us using positive reinforcement training have dogs who are on NILIF and although they are well loved and get rewarded for good behavior, I think we would have absolute monsters on our hands if we truly babied our dogs.







Positive reinforcement does not mean you aren't a serious trainer and can't have well behaved dogs.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

First, anyone-read my first quoted quote up there please-I specifically said for people reading and considering. Not addressed to a certain person. 

Because here is what happens on this board (and I am sure others). I have FAST results with a prong. Or an e-collar. Or a large man jumping out of bushes yelling BUGGA BOO at my dog. Whatever. It's fast. So everyone wants to do it too, because what is better than fast when your arm is being yanked out of it's socket!

Well, what is better is having the dog learn. And that is where, in the other thread, there are two great posts from Melanie and Patti about teaching with the prong. OR-without it. http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...333#Post1106708

I know it's a tool and like any tool it can be used or abused. I am not new to tools. I have been using them, much like our little chimp relatives, since I was a child! The stick I used to get my bug supper, I could have poked someone in the eye with. I understand that. 

BUT, unless I shove the clicker in my dog's ear canal, or something like that, it really can't be used to hurt a dog (my poor grasp of clicker training-that is something I do watch for). And it's fast, but harder to teach quickly, unlike popping a prong. I can't hurt my dog by mistake with praise, or a quick pat on the chest. Or a little treat here and there. 

So while I am working on teaching a new behavior, those are the types of things I want to use. I want the dog to learn a behavior in their long-term memory and want them to learn it well. So that they can repeat it even if I am not attached to them by any tool-on them or remotely. I want to be motivational and build our relationship. I want to teach, them to learn. 

When people post be the tree, it's not very enticing. A walk that takes an hour to get around the block-not appealing at all. I understand that. 

But all I like to do on these threads is try to prevent everyone from jumping on a bandwagon without proper training and supervision, and trying to motivate and teach the dog first before adding corrections. 

My dogs are not babied, including some strong willed, catlike Chow mixes, I have many different types of behaviors and issues here. All are treated firmly and fairly. NILIF is used. Positives are used to shape and learn, and corrections are used as needed-I try to be as punitive as I saw my oldest dog being-which is truly way less controlling than people would be-and he kept all 8 others in line! But we do have fun, we have good relationships and they enjoy learning new things. 

I also feel it's important to say this, because my oldest dog was not trained in this manner as much-I did try to use force (not too successfully either), I did use compulsion, and I regret it now that I know that other methods work, and work better no matter how dominant or pushy we may think our dogs are. Out-thinking them is better than any tool we have. It's just a lot harder!


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I used one half a dozen times to break a chase game for squirrels and ducks while walking when I was nearly pulled into a street. He has stopped doing it and we have moved on, BUT he will wear it today for my safety. There is a circus in town and we are going to meet elephants. I expect hackles and tentative sniffing. He has never feared anything, horses, cows, sheep, etc but these are elephants, Also I know there will be other dogs there maybe more scared and acting up and want the utmost control. All tools have purpose and if we use waht is needed when needed maybe we will all be better off. Hopefully elephant meetign goes perfect and he won't even know he had it on.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

We've started to use a prong on Jerzey, but only occasionally. Whenever I do use it it is on the dead ring, so it doesn't offer as strong of a correction. Sometimes I'll take her for a walk with it on but keep the leash connected to the flat collar, kind of as a just-in-case kind of thing. I have to admit, it makes it easier for me to walk her and she's not even too bad of a puller (unless she catches a whiff of something good!







)

I think it's nice to have as a backup. It didn't really take long for her to learn that she belonged at my side and that pulling was unacceptable... I don't doubt that we'll be able to eventually walk her without it (that is, of course, if it decides to stop raining and we can actually go on a lengthy walk!) We've tried positive reinforcement training and a lot of other things suggested here before trying the prong, though. Like I said, she was pretty good but the prong helped her get closer to "perfect."


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am sure that there is a place for prong collars, perhaps very dominant, hard dogs that have been raised with compulsion training, abuse, and inconsistancy and are now being managed by someone who needs to have control rather than a fight, and must have control in order to keep the dog and public safe. 

I think that way too many people resort to a prong collar way too quickly. I cannot imagine a pup younger than 12 months NEEDING a prong. I can imagine an owner of a pup younger that 12 months feeling as though they need a prong collar. 

I think that the pinch or the zap of training collars give people the results they want quickly and then they jump on the bandwagon to encourage others to do like they do. Somehow if a whole slew of people are using prong collars, they must be a good thing. 

I think when you get a dog, taking the time to properly train the dog should be factored in to your decision. 

If you hobbled your dog so that it walked on three legs, I bet you would get a vast improvement on pulling also. But THAT would be OBVIOUSLY cruel. Just because something nets results, does not make it a good method of training. 

I am glad these collars cannot be used at AKC shows and events, because at least some people out there can be found that do not NEED these collars for their dogs to do what they want them to. 

If you got a pup when it was under 12 weeks of age, and have to use a prong on it, than the failure is yours. The pinch collar ought to have a pinch lead so that every time your dog is corrected, the handler is corrected too. 

I am sorry, but hearing about this used on young puppies just gets me going.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I didn't need the prong, although he wore it. He met the elephants calmly, no hackles, just curiosity and interest. The crowds adn squealing kids never have bothered him nor other dogs. I just wanted to be sure if the stress was there, especially since i had surgery 3 weeks ago and didn't want either of us hurt. I love well socialized and trained dogs, they really can go anywhere and do anything.


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

And there are no pictures of him meeting the elephants? I was looking forward to that!!!


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Trudy, not directed at you, just all the posts that proceed it. The prong has been effective with aggressive dogs that would have been put down.

But for all dogs, no.


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