# Adopting out aggressive dogs



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

2 recent news articles about public shelters sending aggressive dogs home with unsuspecting adopters.

City sending ?aggressive? dogs to be adopted, records show | KXAN.com

Bay Area man attacked by adopted pet, shelter plans changes for dangerous dogs - Story | KTVU


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

This is such a complicated issue. Part of the problem is the no-kill sheltering movement aims for no more than 10% euthanasia due to extreme aggression or untreatable injury or illness. That's an artificial number. 

I would bet there's a reason that GSD in the Bay Area video was not pulled by the local breed rescue! Most of us in breed rescue who have been doing this long enough won't knowingly pull dogs that are human aggressive. We don't want to endanger ourselves, our foster volunteers (= our friends and their kids), our adopters, or our reputations. We also don't want poor ambassadors for breed rescue representing us. For most of us, temperament trumps everything -- we'll take injured, sick, broken-down dogs without hesitation as long as the temperament is excellent, because we know that with enough money, we can fix their bodies. We aren't as sure we can fix the other stuff, no matter how much money we spend -- and the consequences of failure are awful. 

The problem is mentioned in the Bay Area article -- there's an army of "arm chair 'rescuers'" (who aren't rescuers at all, just rabble-rousers), who all share and share on FB while screaming "someone save this dog!!!!" The dog becomes a FB "cause" and then they start in on how "it must be because he was abused" and "he just needs love" and eventually some poor soul decides to get the dog. Not one of them has a clue how to actually assess a dog, much less what goes into rehab, or what happens if rehab fails. The same idiots flood my rescue in-box with screaming pleas for dogs like this. They annoy the crud out of me because they have zero involvement in or responsibility for what comes _after _the dog is pulled. They think they are saving dogs from behind they're computer, when in reality they are causing a lot of problems with their cluelessness.

It's a huge reason why foster-based breed rescues are a much better option for most adopters. At least with the dogs who get into rescue, someone who knows the breed assessed the dog and deemed it worth pulling. It's been to a vet that knows the breed and who deemed it adoptable. The dogs have lived in a home, shown their true colors to the foster family, and are no longer stressed out in a shelter environment. 

However, adopting from breed rescue costs more because it's not publicly funded and vet care is obtained on the private market. For people who want a publicly subsidized dog for $100 or less, they take their chances at the city pound.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The truely aggressive cases shouldn't be adopted out IMO they should just be put down. 

The people they are best with usually don't want to deal with them. They aren't a project for some bleeding heart yuppie or hipster to take on because they want to feel good about themselves. They need a good program of management and a set of behavior rules that are set and enforced by someone who is sure about what needs to happen and when and isn't going to break down in tears or get personally offended when they get growled at or have teeth flashed their way in anger.

You can't love the aggression out of them.


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

Baillif said:


> The truely aggressive cases shouldn't be adopted out IMO they should just be put down.
> 
> The people they are best with usually don't want to deal with them. They aren't a project for some bleeding heart yuppie or hipster to take on because they want to feel good about themselves. They need a good program of management and a set of behavior rules that are set and enforced by someone who is sure about what needs to happen and when and isn't going to break down in tears or get personally offended when they get growled at or have teeth flashed their way in anger.
> 
> You can't love the aggression out of them.


Totally agree.

And in our litigious society, you're inviting a lawsuit when the dog bites someone.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

We want to save every dog. But, we put down dogs for space. This needs to stop. People need to evaluate a dog, and its history, so well as it is known and make that horrible decision, yes or no, whether the dog is euthanized or sent onward for foster/rescue. 

I think that shelters have to be held accountable for incidents that should have been avoided. The answer is not to refuse to home any GSD to a family with children age 5 or under -- and many do this. The answer is NOT to adopt out dogs with a serious history of aggression. 

If a dog is given up because the owner said it bit someone, are shelter won't take that animal. They can do nothing for it. They will tell you they cannot take it. So, you need to either find it another home on your own, or do what needs to be done and take it to the vet and hold its paw while the juice is administered. It sucks. But making this dog someone else's problem, or some organizations problem that is worse. 

But, the thing is, not all bites are actually inappropriate aggression. Let's look at the incident. The dog bit a friend. What was the friend doing? Wrestling with the owner's kid? Being loud and drunken? Coming into the home while the owner was away to take care of the dog? -- been there, done that, got the teeth marks. You would think that an owner would understand that the dog was ramped up, made a poor decision, made a good decision. But, when an owner sees what a dog is capable of, sometimes, it changes their perception of the dog. They feel unqualified to handle such a dog, even if they can honestly take responsibility for the dog's lack of training/socialization/leadership. 

So, can a biting dog be surrendered to a shelter and still be salvageable? The answer is yes. But now, you have to weigh your resources. If you have a dog that has bitten, circumstances unknown or questionable, the dog should be released only to an organization or individual whose purpose is to foster AND evaluate the dog. If a shelter does not have a resource capable of providing this service, then they need to do the right thing. The unpopular thing. 

Never should a shelter give up a dog that they cannot handle. That is insane. 

Some dog breeds have aggression built into them, for what they are bred for. Some are really not bred for aggression, and if those dogs have bitten, those dogs probably have some type of physical-mental disease/disorder, and there is really no point in spending money fixing such a dog -- An English Setter that is biting people? No, something ain't right, put the poor thing out of its pain. But a GSD? Biting people might be in their job description. So a report of a bite should not be an instant death-sentence. 

On the other hand, any dog who has bitten someone and has been relinquished to a shelter, is homeless and requires more than just being adopted out. So, why not use the resources necessary to rehabilitate and re-evaluate the dog to help several dogs who would otherwise be euthanized just for space?


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

Baillif said:


> The truely aggressive cases shouldn't be adopted out IMO they should just be put down.
> 
> The people they are best with usually don't want to deal with them. They aren't a project for some bleeding heart yuppie or hipster to take on because they want to feel good about themselves. They need a good program of management and a set of behavior rules that are set and enforced by someone who is sure about what needs to happen and when and isn't going to break down in tears or get personally offended when they get growled at or have teeth flashed their way in anger.
> 
> You can't love the aggression out of them.


ding ding ding :grin2:


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## Caroline5 (Mar 18, 2016)

A few years ago I got myself into a very heated discussion about a situation like this. Someone had a dog who was an aggressive biter and was inquiring about training it. I had the audacity to think about the safety of children and recommend that the dog be euthanized. I was called all sorts of names and told I should have never been a mother or per owner. Still shaking head about that one.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Selzer, part of the complication here is the quality of the information being used to make these calls. Public shelters are often lousy at evaluating dogs, and the histories they get aren't always clear. The two stories posted had multiple serious bites causing injuries in different homes, and the staff couldn't even handle the dogs -- easy call. 

The harder calls are the ones who have ambiguous histories: relinquished for a bite, but no back story. Unfortunately, some owners give this as a reason for relinquishing because of pride -- they don't want to admit they can't afford to care for the dog, etc. We learned about that when we had a shelter call for follow-up on a dog who seemed quite gentle, and the owner broke down crying on the phone and admitted the lie. That lie could have killed a good dog. 

Other times the backstory involves a _provoked_ bite--letting a kid harass, climb on, hit, and pull ears and tails, and the bite was one quick snap telling the kid to knock it off, not an injury-provoking rip. Many public shelters would still euth that dog because under stress it bit a child. 

The worst are the ones that are not even real bites at all. I once had to fight to save the life of a lovely 12-week GSD pup who _scratched _a kid with its too-long nails jumping up -- which counts for rabies-hold purposes just like a bite, and is treated as a bite case. Puppy mouthing gets reported the same way if it breaks the skin. Being a normal, non-aggressive GSD puppy can be a death sentence if that behavior gets reported in some jurisdictions with zero-tolerance policies.

The answer of "evaluate them" doesn't solve it entirely either. GSDs typically shut down and get depressed in sheltering situations. It takes me several hours to get one of those shut-down dogs out in a large fenced yard, to even begin to get a glimpse of who the dog is. Shelter staff doesn't have that kind of time. 

This is the national evaluation protocol used in most well-run shelters to evaluate dogs:
SAFER® | ASPCA Professional

It's problematic. Take the time to go through it -- understanding that there are blank sheets with check boxes and spaces to fill in numbers that young, inexperienced shelter employees use to "grade" the dog. Look at the elements of it -- from the dog introduction to the paw squeeze to the rubber hand in the food bowl. These are what are used for life-and-death decisions.

Notice the problem? Some of these elements are tailor-made for _good _GSDs to do poorly on (when aloof, working line dogs end up in the shelter, imagine how they react to a stranger bending over them, grabbing their paw, and squeezing). Statistically pits actually do the best as a breed on this test. Not much in this test predicts biting, unless the dog goes after someone during the test (which does happen). It doesn't involve a "kid test" as there are no kids readily at hand in most shelters. 

I've spent a lot of time with the intake manager in my local shelter who was afraid of GSDs and thought they were impossible to read. She was trying to read them like pits, and so she wasn't seeing the right things in GSDs. Once she learned to look at ear positions and notice what the eyes were doing, she started to see what the GSDs were saying -- the biters telegraph their intention loud and clear before lunging to bite. A quarter inch of difference in ear position can be enough warning to avoid a bite. Seeing the breed and not a generic dog helped her to start to separate the scared (but possibly okay) dogs from the ones who genuinely wanted to rip people's faces off. Then they can come back to the scared dogs in a few days, when the cortisol levels are hopefully lower, and re-evaluate.

The reality is that sheltering staff in nearly every city needs help from dog people with evaluations. Mistakes run in both directions--euthanizing dogs who aren't dangerous, and failing to euthanize dogs who are dangerous and shouldn't be out in the community.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I don't think shelters are lousy at it, I think they don't have the resources for it. Right now they are pushing for more funds for Chicago shelters, because it's just not there.

I don't think a lot of rescues make all the right choices all the time either. 

For example her I sit with Batman who loves people but is considered hard to handle and would have been put to sleep if I didn't hang on to him. There is nothing wrong with Batman that can't bd managed. Putting him to sleep was not the answer.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I deal well with problem dogs. Because I will willingly alter my life to ensure that they are never given the opportunity to bite. The average pet owner cannot or will not do that.
I believe that in cases where the shelters know the dogs are aggressive, they need to be held accountable.
Years ago I was fostering two dogs who had come from the same home. One was a Pit/Collie and one was a Lab/Collie. They had both been beaten and neglected. The female, Pit/Collie, could not have been sweeter. And she quickly walked through eval and was about ready to be adopted out. The male, Lab/Collie, at first seemed like a bold, eager boy. Then he started growling at me for enforcing rules. Then he started snarling at me from my bed at night. Then he attacked my Dane. Then he attacked me, months of therapy to restore use of my hand. The trigger? He was laying on my feet and I said Good Boy! He came off the floor and got my arm. It took two of us to get him off and at one point I was basically kneeling on him. These incidents took place over several months, and it took two more months of us handling him like a wild animal to get him out of my house. Once back in the shelter he reverted to sweet, eager and loving. They blamed me and adopted him out. Two months after the adoption he mauled the seven year old child, reconstructive surgery. The shelter admitted no fault and blamed the adopters for it.
Until shelters get much better at evaluating dogs, and listening to fosters, dogs with bite histories need to be euthanized.
I would like to see specialized shelters for these dogs were they could be properly evaluated. But that will never happen.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

You know who I believe is the real problem? Humans. Humans get puppies, think they should already be trained and dump them in a shelter when they find they aren't. Humans dump dogs in shelters for multiple different no good reasons. Those same humans get another dog and repeat. It's to easy to replace a dog. Society now a days is a joke. Sure lets get married, if it don't work we can get divorced. Sure lets have a baby and then kill it. People have become very lazy and are always looking for a way out. What ever happened to sticking it out and working for what you want? That goes for marriage, kids and pets. It's the same thought process that people fail at miserably, more so now then ever before. 


If people would stop breeding their dogs because they are cute and they know they can find homes for them and stop dumping good dogs that never asked to be here in the shelters, it will never stop. When are humans going to be held accountable? When are they can going to stop being the problem? 

Do you guys know that there is a kids show(I forget which one) but it's about a dog that was dumped at a shelter because his owners didn't want him. Since when is it ok to make a kids show based on this? What are we teaching theses kids? The whole concept the show is crap. 

Meanwhile I get a text that someone has 10 GSD puppies they need to find homes for and I can have as many as I want. Well of course I can't take any, but I can't stop thinking about how selfish these people are. 10 pups that may or may not find homes, taking away a chance for other dogs with stupid owners to find homes or dogs that are sitting in shelters.

I look at this picture and think statistically some will get a good home, some will end up in shelters and some will end up in the wrong hands. 




Human race rant over....


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I tend to not get too sore about it. Statistically that same litter in the wild left to nature would fare significantly worse. How many live past year 1 then? Life is struggle and then you die.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Baillif said:


> I tend to not get too sore about it. Statistically that same litter in the wild left to nature would fare significantly worse. How many live past year 1 then? Life is struggle and then you die.


Life is what you make of it as a person. Dogs don't get a say on what person they end up with it. People should be a voice for them and not turn a blind eye to how screwed up society is. The difference is that these dogs are not wild, nor were they born in the wild. 

As long as people think it's ok and not a problem to dump dogs in a shelter, that will continue to be the struggle.

The sad part is that if changes are made and let's say you have to pay $500 to drop a dog off, people will dump them on the street or in a box at the back door of the shelter. Why? Because people are selfish and don't have any morals.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

How about requiring someone to purchase a license BEFORE acquiring a dog. In the price of the license is 10 years worth of license fees (lifetime), microchip fee, and the cost of euthanasia. This fee, approximately $300, would be your permit to purchase a dog. 

With your dog license, you could then go to any vet or shelter and have your dog euthanized -- no need to dump your 14 year old dog because you can't afford to take it to the vet and get it euthanized. The vets, can then take your license number and get paid by the local dog and kennel fee for the euthanasia. 

If your dog is picked up, it's chipped, whoever chips the dog registers it, so it isn't a blank chip. If the dog has been dumped, the owners are called, if they refuse to retrieve their dog, than their name goes into the dog and kennel database as someone who relinquished their dog in whatever year -- no longer eligible to apply for a permit to buy a dog for 5 years. And, a $300 fine is sent in the mail to the person who dumped their dog. 

If the dog is picked up one time, the owner is called, and if they retrieve their dog, all is good. $10 fine -- dog at large.

Second time the dog is picked up. $100 fine. 

Third time the dog is picked up, $1000 fine or $300 fine + spay/neuter. 

For every time the dog is picked up beyond 3rd, fine is $1000.

Breeders are required to list the license permit number before relinquishing the puppy. Dog owners must list the new owner's license permit before relinquishing a dog, and they must contact the microchip company and update the new owner's contact information -- maybe this can be done by providing the license-permit number. 

All charges of animal cruelty and animal neglect will be entered into the dog/kennel database and before issuing a license permit, one search on a person's social security number provides any animal-related convictions (lifetime), and any animals relinquished to a shelter within a 5-year-period. 

Shelters would be required to list license-permit numbers just like breeders when relinquishing a dog to anyone. 

Making it more difficult up front to get a license to own a dog, might drive home the point that this is a major decision. You can throw in a 3-7 day waiting period. You can make $25 be non-refundable -- if the permit is denied. 

Up front, some dogs are going to die. Some people are not going to be unwilling or unable to adopt or purchase a dog because of the fee. And some people will find this unsupportable. But if we are serious about making people realize that owning a dog is a commitment, and if we want to be certain that scumbags that treat animals terribly cannot get more dogs, then we maybe have to lose some dogs up front. 

You would be unable to dump your dog in the woods somewhere -- every dog found roadkill or alive would be scanned, and you will be charged for dumping the dog, or the dog would go back to you, if you said it got lost. 

And if you take the dog to a shelter, and the dog is not in any condition to be euthanized -- temperament or health, then your name goes in the database -- no more licenses for 5 years, and a healthy fee is sent to your home, which would be actionable. Probably $300 -- enough to support the dog for 1-2 months so that a home might be found, but kind of an added deterrent. Not so much that average people could not cover the cost. If the fine is not paid, than no further license to own a dog would be granted until the fine + interest is paid in full. 

There would be loop holes of course. Spouses and significant owners might apply for a license when their house mate has a record. But I think it would protect a lot of dogs from getting in the wrong hands.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

I could potentially find myself in favor of some sort of permitting or licensing system, at least for certain types of dogs that have the _potential_ to inflict real harm on humans (GSD's, Mali's, various pit types, certain livestock guardian types, ect.). As selzer points out, it would then be much easier and more efficient to target and punish the individual owner for negligence or wrongdoing. It certainly would be a better approach than the blanket bans being enacted in certain locales. It would encourage a certain sense of dedication and responsibility among dog owners as well.

I will say that such legislation, like many others that attempt to control human behavior, would be a feel-good, symbolic gesture more than anything else. Ultimately, if people want to ignore the rules, and get a certain type of dog, there will be an underground market (or unscrupulous seller) to satisfy that demand.

Still, I see far too many people walking around with dogs that they are poorly-equipped to handle (mostly because they are too lazy to learn how to train and socialize the dog). I am a firm believer that no breeds should be off limits to ownership, but I also believe it's incumbent on the owner to prepare himself/herself for handling the dog safely and effectively.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I am against any sort of advanced license. My reason is, I live in an area of the country, which encompasses at least six states, where we have zero dog overpopulation problem. None at all. In fact there is more demand than supply by a good margin. 

So, what do the shelters here do? Do they switch focus to keeping dogs in the home when people are struggling financially or otherwise- and provide services like dog-food banks, free spay and neuter, reduced veterinary care, and inexpensive basic training? Nah, although there are some wonderful local non-profits that do this.

Do they send those looking for dogs to responsible breeders? Nah, cause breeding is evil... right?! 

Instead these shelters import up "rescue"d dogs from the southern states. In fact, a woman I spoke with had already adopted a puppy from a litter that had been imported from Texas (hurricane). 

Here is the kicker, and I promise this ties into the focus of this thread. 

I teach at the college, and I've had more than three students, already (in just two semesters) who have adopted a dog from the local shelter. In each case it was a dog shipped up from the south, and a bully breed/mix. The shelter told the adopting students'/family that the dog was good with kids, people and other animals. In each case, the adopted dog turned out to be aggressive towards at least one of these three- one so dangerously so it broke through a window to attack another dog! 

My students have asked me- what do I do? We have this dog now and can't do anything we'd planned to do with it... no hiking, no hanging out with friends, no trips to the dog woods. 

What do they do? Well, most don't have the know-how or interest in actually working with a dog like this, as Bailiff so clearly said. 

So, buy a dog from a responsible breeder! Support organizations in states that continue to have overpopulation problems that provide free spay/neuter and also owner education and support. Put your money there, rather than allowing this rescue-retail type system to perpetuate. 

The local humane society is being irresponsible and tugging at heartstrings by continuing to import dogs from other states, dogs that often have heartworm, other worse diseases, and behavioral/medical problems.

And, licenses, etc. had nothing to do with eliminating animal overpopulation in this area. I can't cite actual statistics but if I were to guess, I'd say it was simply owner education and basic responsible dog ownership. People do not allow their dogs to wander, people generally spay-neuter or know how to prevent females from getting pregnant. Laws had little if anything to do with it. It is basically a cultural shift.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

For reference, I pay $20 a year for a "group" dog license. They do not charge more for intact animals. All I do is bring in rabies certificates for my dogs, pay the fee, and we're done. But we have zero pet overpopulation. I think it is something like $10 a year for one dog. So, no "advanced" licenses around here.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

The main problem is the hoarders aka rescues and several shelters who adopt out dogs that have not been evaluated but have these "cute" descriptions on their websites without any real information about the dogs. It has ruined our entire area in being able to have a relaxed stroll in the woods, either in or without the company of a dog. AC is lax in confiscating aggressive dogs as every dog needs to be rescued. I am so tired of this nonsense and anthropomorphism.


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

Even though this is an old thread I staggered through every reply. Everyone has valid points and I think it good. However the real,problem is PEOPLE. When you look at the dog population vs the number in any kind of training program, the number is pretty small. I live in a larger city and there are at least a dozen well established training centers. Not counting the smaller individual trainers or centers. All have basic programs of various quality. Schedules througout the day so you can get training for yourself to help train your dog. Doing math on this the actual number of people engaged in any kind of dog training is very small compared to the dog owner population. Most of these centers have established websites easily accessed with a simple search. So why don't people train their dogs?

My dog and I live in an appartment that some would call " fancy" and maybe rather costly. It's dog friendly so there are lots of dogs here. Usually 75-100 in our building alone. In seven years that I have lived here I have yet to see or hear of ANYONE training a dog besides me. I ask people about this and the standard answer is " oh, my dog is ok he barks a little but he is friendly. ". Haha. I have yet to see the so called " perfect dog" every single dog is reactive, some much more so than others. There are many small dogs that just get dragged around by a stupid flex leash, growling and barking at people, cars and other dogs. There is a very stiff fine for not picking up dog poop but that doesn't cure that problem either.

I deal with reactivity every day. My own dog was attacked twice very early on. We have bee accosted 7 times this year alone. As a result I have have taken a very hard line on off leash dogs and any dog even getting close to us. My first line is to yell loudly at both the dog and owner. Next is pepper spray, then my stun gun. The final defense is raw physical force. I hate being this way. We go to classes every week sometimes as many as three classes. I spent a rediculous amount of time and money dog training. Yes it's a hobby but I'll be darned if I'll let some inconsiderate person get away with spoiling the fun I have with my dog.

What's the answer? I don't know. People get a dog and expect it to immediately follow their rules. Some just want the dog around and just beat it off the furniture or what ever the dog does that they don't like. Most people simply do not think of other people. They just do their thing and ignor others. It's no wonder young people today have no manners,no respect for anything. You can see it everyday. Walking down the street diddling with GD phone and smoking a weed. They don't even talk to each other. So the rant goes on.

Dogs are routinely bred in puppy mills. No basic socialization. They bring them to the pet stores to be sold. Other breed to try and make easy money. The result is breeding of dogs with Bad temperament, physical and mental,problems. No wonder we have dog problems.

I don't think legislation will help. Honest and caring people will register their dogs. But that's it. At our appt the only time a dog is registered is when they are purchased. They are required to have shots and local dog tags.these expire in a year....who renews them. None...except me. 

So, I don't have an answer. It goes deeper than just dog problems. It goes right to the heart of our country. When the education system changed in the late '60s and early '70's kids missed learning the backbone of the country and how it affects each of us......I could go on but im just going to be the bad dad that doesn't take excuses and impropriety from my kids. They are much older now and beginning to teach their kids properly now. I didn't think I'd live to see it. So there is hope.

That's enough, Samantha and I going out for a long walk. At least she listens to me and has that wonderful dog smile. She understands me. It's sooths the mind. 

Byron


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I've been volunteering in rescue in one way or another for about ten years. A few different shelters or humane societies and two different GSD breed rescues. I will say, my experience with those shelters and rescues directly wasn't bad... but lately I've gotten pretty disgusted with the whole rescue movement. Like Muskeg, I'm in an area where southern dogs are shipped north regularly. They're the majority of what's adopted out up here (southern transplants)

I can think of 4 right off the top of my head in the last 6 months that I know of who were transported and adopted out with serious aggression issues, some with known bite history, all of whom biting once adopted. I don't know if the people are getting more stupid or the dogs are getting more nasty or what...but I can't think of a GOOD story I've heard come off one of those transport trucks!? 

And I'm not usually to quick to jump on trashing the bleeding heart hippies who want to save stuff because I am one. But I guess I'm getting cynical. I don't think every dog should be or can be saved anymore. With my first service dog i learned the value of a good breeder and because the SDs kind of made me get involved with breeders I learned that good breeders aren't the problem or contributing to the problem.

I had a rescue who was so great but even he had some issues that I think the organization knew about and hid from us because she pegged me for someone who would stick it out with him. And we did. 

I've had a total of 6 dogs in my adult life--- 3 were rescues and 3 from breeders....although one of those was bought at a pet store by my husband's late wife who didn't know any better, so she was a puppy mill dog. I'd probably have another rescue right now if it weren't for the fact that my old girl is still so full of it and still wants to train with me most days, and she still likes to go compete at stuff. I feel I owe her more than i owe some dog I've never met and I don't want to bring in another dog that makes it so I can't spend the time with her in he old age


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

When I was younger and had more time and energy, I spent 2-3 evenings or mornings a week using the city's community fields to walk newbies through basic obedience, for free.
It had occurred to me through working in shelters and fostering that people surrendered young dogs in staggering numbers because of training issues.
I also typed up the basics of house training, responsible pet ownership, etc, and handed them out by the hundreds. Complete with my phone number.
The response to all of this was often overwhelming, and proved my theory was correct. People wanted to do right by their dogs, they just lacked the knowledge.
Of course this was before the internet, but today the issue is to much information.
People living pay cheque to pay cheque don't have hundreds to drop on training. Heck, a lot of folks struggle with vet care.
To my mind if shelters wanted to they could offer free training, it doesn't take a skilled trainer to teach sit, stay, come and don't play with the dirty diapers. It doesn't even take a trainer, just someone with common sense.
Honest aggression is a no go and shelters need to man up and stop saving these dogs, but often what rookies call aggression is nothing more then over excitement or bad manners.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> Honest aggression is a no go and shelters need to man up and stop saving these dogs, but often what rookies call aggression is nothing more then over excitement or bad manners.


the more we move from out farming roots, the more ignorant we become about animals. Granted our farm dogs were more working livestock than pets but still, people seemed to understand dogs better and had no problem teaching them the expectations of humans. 

I agree that too often people don't understand that a dog is not a living stuffed animal.


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## Dragon67155 (Oct 16, 2017)

Unfortnately I live in a state where dogs and cats from shelters are shipped out to other states. I'm sorry to say that most people around are not responsible pet owners. In fact right now we are seeing a rise in Pavro and other puppy sicknesses because people aren't giving their puppies their shots. We have lax laws on leashes, abuse, etc. So I bet that's not getting told to these rescues.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

My aunts first dog was adopted from a reputable well known adoption facility. The dog bit her and her kids multiple times. They would not take the dog back. She tried trainers and there was not much else she could do. It was sad she had such a terrible experience with a first dog.
We adopted a dog growing up from a our local no adoption shelter r. They said the dog was seriously aggressive other dogs and needed to be an only dog. We had no dogs at home and it was love at first sight so we took Teddy home. He had no aggression with any dogs at all. He was one years old barked similar to how max used to but was just half his size- all fluff. As teddy maturered he did not bark at all and later added two dogs to our house with no issues at all.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

keep in mind that many shelter volunteers are kind hearted animal lovers who only have basic understanding of dog behavior. They just don't really know how to read a dog properly, not to say I understand all of the nuances either.


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## Bridget01 (Jun 27, 2016)

I think almost everyone feels that dogs that are truly human aggressive should not be adopted out and set upon the community. I volunteer at a no-kill shelter and I totally agree with the principle of dogs not being euthanized because of space or how long the dog has been there. But if they are truly dangerous, then yes, they should be put down. But dogs are not dangerous by virtue of breed. And if it is one bite, there are circumstances. Adopting is great and often the way to go, but you will always be at the mercy of the opinion of the person doing the adopting out.


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