# Head (or muzzle) in ASL?



## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

In American Show lines, more and more I have noticed an... "odd"... conformation to the muzzle. The end makes a noticed slope downwards. 

Not to insult any lines of GSD, as I know that is against the rules, but I never understood this physical appearance, or the common appearance of it in the show lines. Correct me if I'm wrong, the standard calls for a muzzle parallel to the topline of the skull without an obvious stop, and to me this muzzle is neither parallel nor clean and noble looking. If anything, to me it gives these dog's almost a "sloppy" appearance in their head. 

Even a lot of the dogs who have pictures posted on here, under the "Judge my dog" section that are future conformation hopefuls, to me I don't like their conformation, mainly in the head, but many conformation people say they look very good (from what is seen in the pictures). 

There are some ASL males who I think have very nice noble heads. But when I look at some of the GSD's that are ranked at the top on AKC... I just don't get it.










Don't really see it in any other lines


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Are you speaking of a Roman nose? That's what they call it in horses anyway.  Not sure of dogs!

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/critique-my-dog/103740-ty-10-months.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/166436-abcs-gsd-breeding-5.html#post2252645


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Are you speaking of a Roman nose? That's what they call it in horses anyway.  Not sure of dogs!
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/critique-my-dog/103740-ty-10-months.html
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/166436-abcs-gsd-breeding-5.html#post2252645


Yes, I guess that is the term for it! Thank you! I find it absolutely horrendous, and just don't understand why it is so common in the breed (ASL, at least)


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

German Showlines have it too. That dog you pictured has an exaggerated one.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...tures/185459-starting-look-like-my-daddy.html

Look at the first pic.

I saw a "dished face" the other day on a GSD and it was amazing how pronounced it was.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> German Showlines have it too. That dog you pictured has an exaggerated one.
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...tures/185459-starting-look-like-my-daddy.html
> 
> Look at the first pic.
> ...


Well... I'm not a fan really of EITHER show line... ASL for their - well, overall, WGSL for their rears. Hard to find one that isn't cow-hocked, lol. But I was trying to ask this without bashing.

I know the picture I posted is extremely over-exaggerated, but not only does she prove my point but that dog is one of the top GSD b*tches in the AKC right now! She's not some lowly show line who isn't winning, she is what the judges and breeders are saying a GSD SHOULD be! To me, she looks kinda like a skeksis. Too mean?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Well your first example of "other lines" showed a WGSL. 
I am just saying, they all seem to have that sloping nose, but to varying degrees.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Well your first example of "other lines" showed a WGSL.
> I am just saying, they all seem to have that sloping nose, but to varying degrees.


I was trying to show examples of every other line. I think it's obvious the other 3 don't compare. 

I'm really trying to be optimistic and hope WGSL turn around. I think Crufts may FINALLY be going in the right direction. I've seen some pretty weak, poor dogs "crowned" by them, but the last couple BOBs have seemed decent, from picture anyway. Of course without proper temperament who cares what a GSD looks like.

But the 2010 BOB was a good looking dog. 









And 2012









Yes, you're right, they both have a MINOR roman-nose appearance. But to honestly compare the two... no.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

"to varying degrees" :thumbup:


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't think it's just the Roman nose, I see a lot of ASL dogs that lack stop (I like a more pronounced stop) and/or their heads just seem narrow, not enough "cheek" to them.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I can't tell if the dog in the top photo is male or female..


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

It may be that because the ASL's tend to have longer muzzles that the nose leather hangs off the end.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Ahh, the roman nosed "collie headed" dogs.

I am also not a fan, even though I have a couple. I do have one bitch, however, with an absolutely beautiful head.


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## Questforfire (Apr 18, 2012)

I have never seen an ASL GSD in the flesh, but they don't do anything for me on the images I have seen.


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