# Aggression turns on us!



## PunkSparky (Aug 9, 2012)

I moved in with a new roommate just over a month ago. She had a 3 year old GSD that, as far as I could see, spent all day in the backyard being completely negelected except for his morning and night feedings. That was it. I couldn't stand to watch a dog in need, so I immediately took over care for Sparky. Now I have been working with a 3 year GSD with MAJOR behavioral issues as my first dog essentially. His separation anxiety has been through the roof, he couldn't walk without pulling my arm off, extreme toy obsession/possesion, no trust, no schedule, no socialization and aggression with dogs AND people...to name a few... 

Although he has already become a completely different dog in just over the month that I've been working with him (starting obedience school tomorrow at 530am sharp!), the one thing that worries me is his aggression has seemed to turn on me and my boyfriend several times now. Not in a way that he is trying to attack us to hurt us, because if he really wanted to I know he could, but more...a punk teenager telling us he's had enough of our crap and wants to fight back. 

The first 2 times was late at night when I was making some noise on the drums to get him used to the ruckus. He started barking and nipping at my leg when I tried to correct him. I didn't back off, but I didn't want to move forward either. My bf stepped in and Sparky was jumping on him and barking and trying to nip him. The 2nd time was during another drum session and he actually got my bf good on the leg and left a mark. From there I decided he gets agitated late at night, so I've been doing drums in the early evening right after he's had his long evening run. Everything was ok. Then it happen this morning after my bf took him on their 3 mile morning run. He was petting him and as always, a switch went off and he started going after my bf again. So it's not just a late evening agitation then.

He obviously isn't trying to seriously hurt us/my bf, but it's extremely unsettling and I don't know how to take it. My bf runs him every morning, and I run him every evening after work. I really just want what is best for this dog and am willing to help him in any way I can. I understand all his other issues will come with time, but this one really troubles me. What am I to do if I can't trust him???


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## Woof_Terrorist (Aug 3, 2012)

Try this test (With gloves on hand or oven mitt): Hold the dog under the jaw for 1-2 minutes. An aggressive dog will go nuts. 

And it seems you are risking your health and well being for some one else's dog. Why do it?


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Seriously, talk to the trainer. Don't mess with his jaw. Give respect to get respect. He's not a puppy and he doesn't understand what your doing or want from him.


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## PunkSparky (Aug 9, 2012)

Well, for one thing I'm a complete animal lover and the idea of seeing a neglected dog day in and day out is more than I can handle. Also, in the few shorts weeks I've been working with him his crazy, punk-butt has already wiggled his way into my heart...At this point he's not really her dog anymore. He's mine, and I'm more than willing to put in the time and effort for him.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

its going to take longer then a month with him to work with him. if the drums bother him take him for a walk while the bf plays his drums. you cant expect an outside dog to acclimate to inside behaviors/noises/etc in such a short period of time.. the dog has had zero training/socializing, so the slower you go the better. do not flood him with stimuli as its not going to work... you are only going to do more damage then good.

step up his obedience and do nilif with him 
Nothing in Life is Free

make him earn everything and just go slow....


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

Good luck on working with this dog. You're doing a great service. I just hope you realize that your roommate is never going to give this dog up after he's trained; afterall, this is what she probably wanted, but wasn't willing to do the work. 

Maybe you should try to make this your dog legally, before she sees what an awesome dog he's going to be.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

He may be warning you guys now and become more "serious" with more agitation. Seriously, he needs a trainer well versed in behavioral issues. Don't back down (he'll run with it)... as in leaving the room or showing fear, but for crying out loud don't egg him on by grabbing his jaw or the like, either! He may turn into a great dog, but it's going to take a lot of time. I also agree that his 'real' owner may well lay claim to him if he changes his ways. Get something in writing.


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## PunkSparky (Aug 9, 2012)

Thank you for the responses!

mebully21 - the problem is I'M the one playing the drums and my bf isn't around at night after I get home. So it's up to me to run him and then hope he's tired enough to handle the noise. Initially I tried to have him inside with me during my practice session, but after 2 outburst from him he stays outside now. You are right to go as slow as he needs though...

And thanks Jag and Jo! I didn't even think about my roommate laying claim to Sparky after I train him. I do know she has been "trying to find a home for him" (for 3 years might I add), so I'm not certain she would be upset if I take full claim on him, but at this point I would be devasted to lose him


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

This is just my perspective and I could be totally off base here.. First I would NOT do the jaw thing, that's ridiculous to do on a dog that you don't really 'know' that well.

Since this dog has had basically "nothing" for 3 years, obviously the drum thing is something new and something he is totally unfamiliar with, why it sets him off? Who knows?? The nipping to me, would be telling me he's either not happy with it, and/or since he's unfamiliar with 'just what it is', he doesn't even know how to 'act' because of that lack of 'anything' in his life. Who knows maybe he is thinking those drums are BAD

I commend you for sticking with him and giving him a somewhat normal life, showing him that life can be good!,,and DEFINITELY go to class, talk to the trainer.

You are basically working with a totally blank slate and I really hope you can help him and I'm sure he'll reward you over and over..


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I think the dog is completely confused and taking in the new founded attention. I would go slow with him. If something is bothering him, then ease up on it until you talk to a trainer. They can be wonderful dogs if time is invested in them. I respect you for taking the time to do so


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

What is your set up with the drums? Are you giving him anything to focus on, like what /to/ do instead of what /not/ to do?

I see you sitting on one side of the room playing your drums and poor dog on the other side-- restrained by an unfamiliar person (the current bonding / relationship is with you, you walk/train/feed him yes?). So all he can do is focus on you, his new favorite person, and those loud noises. And occasionally he gets corrected (how are you correcting him?).

I apologize if that isn't what is happening, thats just what I imagined while reading this.
My ideal set up would be everytime you hit the drum, toss a treat to him. While he's busy, hit it again and toss another.. Once he can take the sound, have your bf make him sit, lay down, etc. to get his focus off the sound. So what you're teaching him is that, the sound is ok and brings yummy treats, but that he also has the choice to ignore it and sit / lay down and relax.

Another thing you could do.. I taught my dog while playing certain notes on the guitar, to do tricks to them, by playing the note after giving the cue. Definitely another way to get him thinking.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would crate the dog when I play the drum. I would probably crate the dog as far away from the drums as possible, like in the bedroom, drums in the basement. Then I might move the crate closer with time. 

I would leave a radio on low when I am there and when I am not there, that has some drumming, and occasionally increase the volume and watch closely the reaction. Increase the bass and see if that makes a difference.

He might be noise sensitive. I wouldn't know, but I wonder how he is with fire-crackers and thunder.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I wonder if a thunder shirt would help him.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

I just happened to wonder... has this guy been to the vet? I'm curious if he's got an ear infection or something also...


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Woof_Terrorist said:


> Try this test (With gloves on hand or oven mitt): Hold the dog under the jaw for 1-2 minutes. An aggressive dog will go nuts.
> 
> And it seems you are risking your health and well being for some one else's dog. Why do it?


*Absolutely DO NOT do this!!*


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## PunkSparky (Aug 9, 2012)

Thank you for all the responses! There are some great ideas for geting him accustomed to the sound of the drums and hopefully I can incorporate multiple approaches and see what works best for him. Maybe he just thinks my drumming sucks....haha!

I did speak with the trainers (Day 1 of school today!), and they think it may actually have nothing to do with the drums and more the timing of everything. The first 2 outburst happened late at night when he is usually left alone outside for the whole evening. And then the 2nd time was in the morning when he is usually left alone for the whole day. They think it may just be that he actually IS bonding with me and my bf and he is upset because he knows those are the times that he is getting left alone. His way of telling us he is upset and frustrated is to act out in aggressive behavior towards us perhaps?

Also, I LOVE the idea of getting him to associate certain sounds with a command and reward. I'm defintiely lacking in the mental stimulation area for him because I'm so new, so things like that to keep him thinking would be fabulous!


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## Woof_Terrorist (Aug 3, 2012)

Get the dog registered in your name then do what you will. 

Just a precaution to prevent future heart break.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I am not sure I would label the behavior as "aggressive" necessarily. I would be more inclined to think of it as over-stimulated behavior from a dog that hasn't been exposed to much.

I mean, my own GSD can become over-stimulated, and he has been extensively socialized and trained. My husband can get him ramped up so easily, and then my dog is racing around like a puppy with the zoomies, jumping at people as he flies past them and sometimes nipping/pinching at hands as he does it (and if my husband tries to get him to stop by waving his hands around at Tanner's head, then Tanner is more than happy to play that new game, too, and will leave a bruise). If he is really wired for sound he'll growl as he does it, too. 

To someone who is not experienced with dogs this behavior could easily be seen as aggressive. I can only imagine how easily an unsocialized, untrained dog can become over-stimulated.
Sheilah


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

PunkSparky said:


> I did speak with the trainers (Day 1 of school today!), and they think it may actually have nothing to do with the drums and more the timing of everything.


OP, where did you find the trainer you are now working with? Did they give you an idea of how they would like to work with you and the dog?
Sheilah


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

I don't have a ton of advice, as I'm fairly new dealing with a very hyper, socially inappropriate and reactive dog right now myself and learning as I go. But I can tell you that my fear aggressive GSD has mouthed/nipped me sometimes simply because she does not really know how to communicate with me or she gets overexcited. For example, when I say, "Let's go potty," she will launch herself in one flying leap across the room to my other GSD and bark to wake him up because she knows we have to wait for him to go out. Then she will nip at my shirt or my behind in an effort to herd me and the other dog to the door. Since her hyperactivity seems to snowball, I stop everything and make her sit quietly when she does that. I've worked with one trainer, who seemed to be a good trainer overall, but his forte was not fear aggression. He got bit and Rey shut down. I'm currently working out assessments and setting up a start date with a certified behaviorist team. I think you may want to go this route because it's a whole new learning curve.


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## PunkSparky (Aug 9, 2012)

sit, stay - You bring up a good point in that he may just be over-stimulated and just doesn't know how to act. The reaction of your GSd sounds similar. I've been paying closer attention to cues for him and so far there hasn't been an incidence since. I try to calm him down if he's getting worked up or refocus him if he's getting aggitated. I'm thinking my bf may not be as attentive though (men!), and that's why it's mainly happened with him. 

I did find a trainer via online in our area who has worked in the police K9 unit for 40+ years and specializes in GSD's. So far he's been wonderful in every aspect. He doesn't see any major problems with Sparky as far as behavior or whatnot. He just hasn't been worked with so he's like a new puppy. He keeps reiterating that he really wants us to be firm with Sparky though, and then lots of positive reinforcement when he reacts appropriately. It's a long process of course, but I think it may finally have him on the right path...

Kentucky - Good luck! The one thing I have to keep reminding myself of is that it's a long process that takes patience and consistency. It can be challenging but I see the dog he can be and it keeps me going


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