# Behavior Change after Rabies Vaccine



## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

Hi all,

We took Remy to get his Rabies vaccine today (7-6-10) at 6pm est. He is currently 17 weeks old. Prior to the vaccine he has been very social, wants to meet everyone and has always been super friendly.

After bringing him home from the vet, he started getting really mouthy (nothing out of the norm) but this time it was a bit more rough than usual. Although, this alone wasn't enough to put up a red flag.

I then took him for a walk because he was extra hyper. While on the walk, we encountered two dogs about 50 feet away and Remy immediately raised his hackles and let out a very deep bark. I promptly did an about face and began walking the other direction.

Later on our walk, a lady that was up on her porch asked if she could see the puppy. I said sure as always. She started talking to Remy, the same way every person does, yet this time he cowered away. I asked her to give him a treat and he took it from her gently, yet still a bit apprehensive.

It seemed like the whole walk he was on high alert and everything seemed to be new and scary, hackles raise the majority of the time. The walk was only for 10 minutes.

This is not the dog I have come to know over the month and a half I have been with him.

I read that an acute behavior change and or hypersensitivity can occur with the rabies vaccine 24-48 hours after the shot and up to 1.5 months after the shot.

So my question: Could this behavior change be caused by the rabies vaccine?

Should I be concerned? Is this permanent?:help: 

*Note:* He threw up some type of palm sized squeaker toy today that I have never seen before. I am baffled as to where he found it and how he swallowed it without me knowing. I'm not sure if there is any left in his stomach/bowels. He is eating normal and defecating as usual with normal stools.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would keep a close eye on him as far as health related 
reactions go( as well as where the injection site is) document everything as it happens for future use in case something really escalates.
I don't think his reactions are related to the vaccine, but maybe to the vet visit? His age plays a big part in this as well and he may be in the beginning of a fear stage.
Did the vet give him the rabies vax only or was it a combo? Combo's would worry me~ I follow Dr Jean Dodds vaccination protocol taken from this link:
HEMOPET.HTM


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## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

Jane, thank you for your response!

It was rabies only, as per the recommendation of this board and the breeder. His last parvo-multi was given at 14 weeks.

The vet visit went like every other visit. He seems to actually like going to the vet. There are so many new smells and people to meet. 

I will definitely be watching him closely. If anyone else has any input, that would be greatly appreciated as well.


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## Gib Laut (Feb 21, 2010)

Actually, some of the most common and well documented adverse reactions to rabies include aggressiveness, suspicion and unfriendly behavior. If this behavior is out of the ordinary, I would be inclined to seriously suspect the vaccine and would be extremely cautious with the vaccine in the future. An opinion from a holistic vet may be of some assistance.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

The only way I know of to undo this type of vaccine reaction is by working with a vet that uses constitutional homeopathy. Time might help him recover a bit.

I'm so sorry this happened to your pup


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear this about your little one.

I hope it's not a reaction, but it does happen. Just keep an eye on him-which obviously you are doing. 

_*I would wait several weeks before anymore vaccines are given.*_ 

I only vaccinate for core vaccines. I will give the rabies vaccine, but am putting it off as long as possible. I already told my vet it will be at least 6 months before he will get it.


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## Tehillah (Jun 21, 2010)

Absolutely, what you are seeing is a reaction to the rabies vaccine. There are over 40 antigens in the current rabies vaccines and it only takes 3-4 antigens for a dog/pup to get a response and mount immunity to it. The current rabies vaccine is enough for an elephant. 

This vaccine is a horrible one and should be given the latest possible. Ideally when the pup is over a year old and has more of an adult immune system. Course current rabies laws depending where you live don't always allow for this. As mentioned earlier by someone the best choice now is to treat him homeopathically. If you are lucky the symptoms you are seeing will diminish over time. 

My vet gives a homeopathic remedy after the vaccine when I give it to my dogs. Thankfully where I live it is not required so I can give it much later to my dogs. They get it as I do take them to the U.S. Where it is required.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Courtney said:


> ...._*I would wait several weeks before anymore vaccines are given.*_,,


*Personally, I wouldn't be vaccinating this dog again, or at least for a very long time. * It seems flippant to say "it happens", particularly when it's a personality change that has the potential to affect the behaviour of the dog for life. If you're not sure about not vaccinating again, in a couple of months, I would run parvo and distemper titers and see if they are at a protective level. They should be. If they are protective, there is no need to administer those vaccines ever again, and then you only have to worry about the legal requirement of rabies in a year.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Tehillah said:


> ....My vet gives a homeopathic remedy after the vaccine when I give it to my dogs. ....


I'm curious, does your vet use thuja or lyssin?


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## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

LisaT said:


> *Personally, I wouldn't be vaccinating this dog again, or at least for a very long time. * It seems flippant to say "it happens", particularly when it's a personality change that has the potential to affect the behaviour of the dog for life. If you're not sure about not vaccinating again, in a couple of months, I would run parvo and distemper titers and see if they are at a protective level. They should be. If they are protective, there is no need to administer those vaccines ever again, and then you only have to worry about the legal requirement of rabies in a year.


We are finished with his shots for a year, whew! After reading the boards and other resources extensively, I decided a few weeks ago that I would run titers on the dog for everything besides rabies. 

I also want to check into our local law to see if they would accept titer testing or if it is just the mandated 3 year vaccination after the initial year.



LisaT said:


> I'm curious, does your vet use thuja or lyssin?


I don't believe my vet uses either, I will have to call. 

I did look into lyssin, and read that it should be administered minutes or within hours after the rabies vac. Wouldn't it be too late?

Are there any research articles you could point me to that show lyssin administered after a rabies vac proves beneficial? 

On a positive note, we took him to a large park nearby and I would give him a 80-90% out of 100 for the experience. We met a lot of nice dogs and people and he didn't react nearly as much as he did last night.

I noticed that he was still a bit apprehensive on arrival, but after he started running around in the fields (on a 30ft lead), he really started becoming more aloof to cars, bikes, people and other sounds. 

He did meet one dog and he screamed for a second because that was the biggest dog he had seen, but he immediately warmed up to him. 

Earlier, Remy saw my softball bag sitting on a chair, which he had seen a million times before, and raised his hackles and started letting out a really deep bark. I put it on the ground and he was fine with it. An hour or two later, he did the same thing! Bizarre. 

I'm not sure if lyssin or any other nosodes would be the right treatment. I don't know enough about them, so I want to be very cautious about what I put in my pup. 

What do you recommend LisaT?

Thank you so much!


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## Brighthorizondogs (May 31, 2010)

I'm not convinced this is a vaccine reaction. Sure the vaccine could make him feel more cranky and irritable but he's 17 weeks old and just in the right age to be in a fear period. This could be a behavior issue that is just a normal stage. GSD tend to have more stand offish fear periods.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

A vaccine reaction that changes behaviour will manifest itself it different ways than being "cranky".

Vaccine reactions have the potential to cause the behaviour changes that the actual disease can cause (from the vaccine portion), as well as some other symptoms (caused by the other ingredients). It is not uncommon for changes to include increased aggressiveness, or increased fearfulness, being more nervous or timid or anxious, fearful of water, etc. Those are not "cranky", but distinct personality changes.

You might want to register and post here: DogHobbyist.com - Forums  > Canine Care & Activities > Ask the Holistic Vet


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## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

LisaT said:


> A vaccine reaction that changes behaviour will manifest itself it different ways than being "cranky".
> 
> Vaccine reactions have the potential to cause the behaviour changes that the actual disease can cause (from the vaccine portion), as well as some other symptoms (caused by the other ingredients). It is not uncommon for changes to include increased aggressiveness, or increased fearfulness, being more nervous or timid or anxious, fearful of water, etc. Those are not "cranky", but distinct personality changes.
> 
> You might want to register and post here: DogHobbyist.com - Forums* > Canine Care & Activities > Ask the Holistic Vet


Thank you so much Lisa! I have posted and will keep you updated. I am going to take Remy out and about again today, we will see how that goes. Hopefully as good as yesterday went!

Thank you for all your help and to everyone who took the time to post!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Interesting that he recommended both thuja and lyssin. You might ask him if he thinks one dose of thuja 30C is sufficient.it's clear that he thinks the Lyssin should be prescribed by a homeopathic vet, though there are other resources. 

How's your pup doing now?


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## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

LisaT said:


> Interesting that he recommended both thuja and lyssin. You might ask him if he thinks one dose of thuja 30C is sufficient.it's clear that he thinks the Lyssin should be prescribed by a homeopathic vet, though there are other resources.
> 
> How's your pup doing now?


I haven't been able to take him anywhere new for the past couple days due to severe thunderstorms.

I plan on taking him today, so we will see how he reacts.

I wanted to do more research on thuja and lyssin before I inject more things into my pup and before I submit a reply. I'm a believer of the saying less is more, but in the end, everything depends.

I'll keep you updated. Thanks again!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Homeopathy is the *only* way to undo the constitutional changes that occur long term in vaccine reactions. The body may currently be able to suppress the issue, but in the long run, the body does not forget.


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