# Black and tan.... And silver?



## Sandra Heims (Jul 9, 2018)

Update: So DNA test shows that he has atat at his a locus so that means he is in fact a bicolor?










Original:So I got my little atlas (8 weeks) and I was wondering about his coloring. When we got him he was black and tan. But now I'm noticing that his tan is becoming more silver gray, especially on the chest. I looked up his father's info as he was not on site as they had used a stud service and found out that he was listed as a black and silver. So I was wondering if anyone would have any idea about his puppy colors or a possible coat prediction. I'm hoping he will stay dark though. He was the darkest of his liter. (First picture is him, second is mother and siblings, third is father from online search, 4th is siblings).


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Be it tan / brown / cream / silver or red... genetically they’re all the same. Your puppies tan points will likely be very light, as both parents are light. As far as pattern...again, the parent are your best predictors, I suspect your pup will be close to mom. The far left puppy standing on the fence will likely resemble dad... just for reference.


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## Sandra Heims (Jul 9, 2018)

So months later, my puppy has gotten so big but has stayed dark for the most part. He is just over 6 months old now. At what age do you think he will get lighter since his parents were lighter?


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## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

*Black and Silver*

Hello. Blk/Silver is my favorite old world color in shepherds and having many Black and Silver GSDs in my family since I was little to now(55), your pup will mostly stay the way he is with black in his markings and face, silver around chest/ stomach area with silver and a touch cream on his legs. What he looks like in the 5 months photo is what you got. Cute


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I’m not sure if a melanistic Black and Tan. I know the black recedes as they grow. It looks like you will have a blanket Black and Tan with a lot of Black very handsome!


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

He is handsome! I dont think he will get too much lighter. The face maybe a little.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

He’s very very handsome. The black will continue to recede til about a year to a year and a half, but seeing the amount of black he’s retained thus far, I doubt you’ll see THAT much change. I think you can safely say he’s a blanket back (vs mom who has a saddle) and will remain that way even after more black is lost. His tan points will remain the color that they are.... personally I’d still call him tan (vs silver).... but I suppose “cream” could be seen as accurate as well.


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

I have no input for the color debate but wanted to just say he is such a handsome young man!


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

My favorite color gsd ! Had one that looked identical. Never changed, never lightened up except his muzzle turned white due to age. I am envious of your pup's coat.


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## Sandra Heims (Jul 9, 2018)

I love him and he's my dramatic baby, no matter the coloring and I'm just fascinated about how he's growing! He's my first full gsd I'm just curious as to what others think! 

I've noticed also that he has salt and peppering on the back of the neck and a silver/gray undercoat around the neck? Is this common for the GSD? Will the silver undercoat expand and take over the black?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Sandra Heims said:


> I love him and he's my dramatic baby, no matter the coloring and I'm just fascinated about how he's growing! He's my first full gsd I'm just curious as to what others think!
> 
> I've noticed also that he has salt and peppering on the back of the neck and a silver/gray undercoat around the neck? Is this common for the GSD? Will the silver undercoat expand and take over the black?


Mine didn't, the silver remained as an undercoat.


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## Sandra Heims (Jul 9, 2018)

So an update, he's still pretty dark! He has faded pencil marks and very light toe penciling that is hard to see in the photos as well as tarheels. Could he be considered as a very faded bicolor? Or would he be a melanistic blanket? Both of his parents were sadlebacks with the father being the black and silver.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Black and tan.


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## Sandra Heims (Jul 9, 2018)

Jax08 said:


> Black and tan.


I know he is black in tan, but if I were to classify him as saddle back, a blanket or a faded bi color. Which would be most correct?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

blanket.


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## Sandra Heims (Jul 9, 2018)

A better side picture. There is a lot of debate and mislabeling of bicolors but I saw this figure and thought he could be a faded bicolor because of the faded pencil marks, tarheels and hidden black fur around his nails.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

yes, i figured you had come across that illustration and were understandably confused... what drawings and photos online don’t tell you is that some colors are genetically impossible based on the parents/pedigree/etc. so where i agree that your dog resembles these images, i don’t believe it’s possible with two saddle back parents. if you have a full pedigree, there are members/breeders here that can give you the most accurate info.

for what it’s worth - i’ve never seen a verifiable faded bi color.


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## Sandra Heims (Jul 9, 2018)

Fodder said:


> yes, i figured you had come across that illustration and were understandably confused... what drawings and photos online don’t tell you is that some colors are genetically impossible based on the parents/pedigree/etc. so where i agree that your dog resembles these images, i don’t believe it’s possible with two saddle back parents. if you have a full pedigree, there are members/breeders here that can give you the most accurate info.
> 
> for what it’s worth - i’ve never seen a verifiable faded bi color.



The funny thing is, I got an embark for him to understand what recessive traits he has, and they have him as a saddle back as well...(in the attached picture) . which is confusing because he's so much darker than a saddleback so I thought it may be a recessive trait? Unfortunately I don't have his pedigree as his mother wasn't registered. Do you think I could still ask and any part of the forum you'd recommend?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Likely saddle was my initial guess as well. That said... two saddles can produce blankets. It’s bi colors that I believe not to be genetically possible. Without a pedigree, not much more can be explained specific to your boy, but the search feature may help you get some more general information on color genetics.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Some other things to consider - mother isn’t registered, they used a “stud service”, father not on site... how reputable is this breeder? Are we sure the dog pictured is the sire? You could be going on a wild goose chase for answers? If dad were black or bi, things would make a lot more sense.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

One of mine is a pretty dark blanket back, looked pretty much exactly like yours at that age.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Sandra Heims said:


> Jax08 said:
> 
> 
> > Black and tan.
> ...


Bi color and black and tan are two totally different things I think.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

How old is he?


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## Sandra Heims (Jul 9, 2018)

He's 1.5 years old. You could be right, but when i got my pedigreed black German shepherd the breeder was so happy i was registering mine as supposedly many people didn't register theirs. I was intent on it because it was something I didn't get with Atlas.

So on the DNA test (attached) I got on him both of Atlas' haplo groups on his maternal and paternal sides are common to German shepherds. I know it's the case that you have to be careful who you buy from, but i feel i was lucky and hit the jackpot with Atlas as he actually alerted us to a fire outside that we were able to contain because he alerted us along with all the other amazing qualities that he has naturally and how trainable he has been is just amazing.


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