# Teaching Over/Under



## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Okay, I know I don't belong in the agility section, but I figure you guys know the answer to this one.

We have two separate chains that block access to our driveway (they are about 400 meters apart). My husband and I have been having fun teaching Niko to jump over them as we pass through on our walks. 

If we don't tell him to go over the chain, he will just scoot under like he always used to be fore we started this game. Don was bragging to me about how Niko has started lately looking to him for direction as to whether or not he should jump over or go under the chain.

I had to test this out, so on my walk with Niko I stopped him from going under the chain and told him "Over" which he did fabulously.

On the next chain, I told him "Under" and he hopped OVER the chain. And on the way back through, I tried to get him to do "under" and both times he went over. 

So are the two commands too similar-sounding? What verbal commands do you guys use? And what hand signals can I use to show him what I want him to do? He seems to do best when he has a verbal and visual cue together.
:help:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

No. the commands aren't similar. It doesn't sound like he understands what "under" means.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I don't think the commands are too similar. But have you showed him what they mean by luring with a treat? 

Once I had him following a treat lure under the fence I'd add a command, but don't use them at exactly the same time. Use whatever he _doesn't know_ just before what he _does know_. The verbal cue that is new will then become a predictor for the hand motion that he already understands. When I'm transitioning to a verbal cue I'll just start waiting longer and longer to make the hand signal, giving the dog time to figure it out, and then only using it as a reminder if necessary.

When he'll readily follow a treat lure to go under the fence I'd use an empty hand to make the exact same motion and then reward him from the other hand after he goes underneath. That broad movement can then be faded into something smaller and more subtle, which will become your hand signal for that behavior.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Okay thanks Debbie, that sounds like a good plan. He will readily follow a lure, and I will make my visual signals more dramatic. I think he just gets excited and offers up the new behavior (going over the chain) in hopes that he'll get a treat.  I will make my "Under" signal less ambiguous. I think that was also part of my problem.

Thanks!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I would practice the less proficient behavior..."under"... more than "over" for awhile. The most highly rewarded behavior is the one most likely to occur. Also, many dogs really enjoy jumping so that may be a self-rewarding behavior and more "fun" than under. Increase the value of "under"!


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Good point Samba, since he's not being rewarded for "under"! LOL, sometimes the obvious stuff escapes me.  He's obviously smarter than me.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Samba said:


> I would practice the less proficient behavior..."under"... more than "over" for awhile.


That is an excellent point, and it's something I did when I was training Halo. When she was in puppy class she was very good at doing a down from a sit or a stand but not so good at doing a sit from a down, that was still kinda spotty. So I started just praising her for the down, but I praised her AND gave her a treat for sitting from a down. And when we were working on random sit/stand/down drills I tried to throw more of those in than everything else, until she was just as proficient at that as the other position changes. It works!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Training is a balancing act in so many ways, isn't it? 

I am working on the down on recall. Now that is a challenge to keep snappy without anticipation.


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