# Input on pedigree's??



## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Does anyone have any knowledge or input on these pedigrees? One is the sire and one is the dam of a litter. I also noticed one of the dogs "blanka z gemera" was "certified service dog" on the pedigree database? What does that mean?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

some pedigrees you look at and the reaction to the combinations is like nails scraping on black board .

this one -- I like . 

I think you will have reasonable , balanced dogs which allow you to participate in any activity - or not - and have a good looking animal to boot.

years ago a friend as a pass time took to researching the Anrebri kennels' dogs.

they have a recognizable type. 

The replies he got from owners was that they were pleasant and easy to live with and had an off switch.
No issues . No problems with adapting .


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Speaking of the Anrebri dogs, I keep hearing they are structurally beautiful and very good sport dogs, but have mild nerve issues that are genetically dominant in the lines such as lack of resilience and avoidance issues with stick hits. Great for sport but not work. Just wondering if others have heard the same.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Speaking of the Anrebri dogs, I keep hearing they are structurally beautiful and very good sport dogs, but have mild nerve issues that are genetically dominant in the lines such as lack of resilience and avoidance issues with stick hits. Great for sport but not work. Just wondering if others have heard the same.


they are indeed very beautiful , beautifully structured dogs .

I do agree with them being good for sport .

I was urged by my friend to "bring one in" (yeah so that he could visit and interact with the dog!)
but from what I found out they were not for WORK . 

they were moderate in drive and didn't have active aggression . Can't have that for a working dog - not when the handler depends on the dog for his safety and life.

They also didn't have that fire in the belly to work , or track .
I need those traits -- with an off switch!

Things may have changed as I see more of the old Pohrancicni Straze dogs in the background.

I believe the OP wants a level headed companion. I think this would fill the bill handsomely.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Sorry to hijack the OP's thread, but, Chip and Carmen, please explain to me why dogs with nerve, resilience and stick issues are suitable for sport? Most dog sports, especially the protection sports, are hard enough with a good dog. Working a dog that lacks resilience and has stick issues is NOT a fun dog to train and at the minimum a huge disappointment and frustration for their handler. I actually tend to steer people away from the Anrebri lines because of these issues.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

My information is based on research and not first hand experience with the Anrebri lines. Suitable might not be the best adjective to use. My understanding is the issue is that due to the lines being so structurally appealing, some are willing to over look the temperament issues or are kennel blind. I am told the nerve issues are mild, but genetically dominant. Since sport is so routinized, these weaknesses can be training through (covered up.) I understand the lines are very high in prey drive and are their drive package is largely only prey. So they are not nerve bags, but not top sport dogs or suitable for police work. It is the same issue with the show lines. The have titles, but how many are actually capable of real work?


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

The dog will not be doing any protection work

Actually looking for a prospect service dog for medical alert.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

So I def don't want to mess with possible nerve issues


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Here is the thing. I researched these lines and received input from two different people who both had direct experience with a lot of Anrebri dogs. Both people have a lot of experience in the breed and are very knowledgeable. One person said he has seen very many good dogs from Anrebri lines and the other said nearly 100% of what he has seen have mild nerve issues when pressure is applied to the dogs. For your purposes, you might end up with just the right pup.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

I still worry that it's a chance on getting a pup with nerve issues.not something you want for a service dog. If it was a companion only I would go for it


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

The dog will need confidence...be able to handle stress and be stable around lots of people/kids/animals


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

I was also looking at a pup from these two...I am just in the beginning research stage haha

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2590458-ruger-von-jagermeister-haus


http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1352688-tessa-von-jagermeister-haus

Although this one is unlikely that I would go with ^^


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I have a dog with Anrebri lines and he is very weak nerved. I'm not just talking about during training. He's ver nervy in everyday situations. He also has DDR lines that could be contributing to that, or it could just be that his dam and sire were not an ideal match for one another. I wouldn't seek out a dog with his lines again, FWIW. I haven't met enough other dogs from the Anrebri lines to form an opinion on what I think of them as a whole, so this is just anecdotal evidence from my personal experience of owning one.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

@konathegsd Where are you located? Perhaps someone can recommend strong nerved dogs that may be suitable for service work in your area.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

My female is line bred on Anrebi lines. We haven't gotten to the point of doing stick hits in protection yet, but I haven't noticed any nerve issues with her.

First time she heard gunfire, she was on a long down, and just pricked her ears a bit and turned to look at the source.

The decoy has waved his arm to simulate stick hits, without a stick in his hand, and she ignored it.

She didn't like large vehicles going past on the road when I first got her, but she has gotten used to that. 

I've taken her on kid's playground equipment, where there were metal stairs and panels that you could see through, and she only hesitated briefly the first time. 

We live in a rural area, so no exposure to office buildings, elevators, etc., except for being at the vet clinic in Guelph. Aside for wanting to climb into my lap because she was very sick and feeling a bit clingy, she was fine, and underwent many ultrasounds of her belly without problems, needing only a few treats as a distraction. They said she was a model patient for the veterinary students who attended her!

I wouldn't say she shows much in the way of active aggression, though. She loves everyone. In protection, she's very keen and fast and hits the sleeve like a rocket with a firm, full grip. Has been know to wag her tail when hanging off the sleeve.

Pedigree: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2224084-eska-von-den-roten-vorbergen


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

GypsyGhost said:


> I have a dog with Anrebri lines and he is very weak nerved. I'm not just talking about during training. He's ver nervy in everyday situations. He also has DDR lines that could be contributing to that, or it could just be that his dam and sire were not an ideal match for one another. I wouldn't seek out a dog with his lines again, FWIW. I haven't met enough other dogs from the Anrebri lines to form an opinion on what I think of them as a whole, so this is just anecdotal evidence from my personal experience of owning one.


Good to know. Seems like a few others have posted about anrebri lines having nerve issues online.

I'm located in CA but willing to go anywhere in CA or AZ


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

One breeder I've been talking to for about a year (vom amwolf) 

I have been looking for a pup out of latigo and leyenda for a while as well

Latigo 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1819637-latigo-du-kazulani

Leyenda 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2338074-leyenda-du-noble-nid

I know quite a few with pups out of them who are VERY happy


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Sunsilver said:


> My female is line bred on Anrebi lines. We haven't gotten to the point of doing stick hits in protection yet, but I haven't noticed any nerve issues with her.
> 
> First time she heard gunfire, she was on a long down, and just pricked her ears a bit and turned to look at the source.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input!! Such a beautiful pup! I love all blacks


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Thank you. I love her structure, too. There's nothing exaggerated or overdone about it. And OMG, can she JUMP!! Muscles in her hind legs are like steel!


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

konathegsd said:


> One breeder I've been talking to for about a year (vom amwolf)
> 
> I have been looking for a pup out of latigo and leyenda for a while as well
> 
> ...


What I am about to write is in NO way me bashing either of these dogs. I just wanted to address the part I bolded. What are the people doing with these pups? And how old are they? I know it sounds like it shouldn't matter on the surface, but if these puppies are still very young or not being tested in any way, the owners being happy with them doesn't really tell you much. There is of course NOTHING wrong with a person having a GSD as a pet who doesn't do any sort of sport or work, but if you are looking for an actual working dog, you will not glean as much useful information from looking at dogs that are in pet homes. You may want to visit a GSD club or an IPO club in your area and talk to the owners about theor dogs. What are their strengths? What are their weaknesses? How do they handle pressure? Are they solid off the field? How do they deal with other dogs? How do they deal with crowds? In my experience, you will find a lot more useful information from seeing dogs doing something and talking to their owners than you would by just talking to people who have companion GSDs. There may be some dogs at any of these clubs whose breedings could be a perfect match for your needs. Just a thought.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Maybe I missed it in your comments, but have you ever chosen a puppy for SD work? I am very picky about the type of dog I want to see going into SD work and their nerves have to be exceptional (maybe even better at times than many working dog). Though it could mean a much longer search, have you considered an older puppy or young dog (say, up to a year) where the nerves can be better tested?


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

lhczth said:


> Maybe I missed it in your comments, but have you ever chosen a puppy for SD work? I am very picky about the type of dog I want to see going into SD work and their nerves have to be exceptional (maybe even better at times than many working dog). Though it could mean a much longer search, have you considered an older puppy or young dog (say, up to a year) where the nerves can be better tested?


i have not, that's where I was hoping to find a reputable breeder. Is there a way to test nerve when they are found (8-12 weeks) ?
I would actually much rather prefer an older dog, extremely hard to find one that isn't priced very high.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Against my better judgement I'm not going to comment on Anrebri dogs, though I'm sure between my information from one of the best friends of the lady that owns this kennel, and quite a bit of first hand knowledge with these lines.....I will just say focusing on the Anrebri dogs in this pedigree to come to a conclusion on what this litter will produce, I think is shortsighted at best. Just my opinion. I look at four quadrants of the pedigree, they all contribute to the litter, I personally know the general traits of the dogs in all four quadrants in these two pedigrees. Plus, I know the good/bad of Anrebri dogs. How folks can come to some of the projections without strong knowledge of not only the four quadrants, but also certain combinations that are present, baffles me. Where is the Anrebri dogs in this pedigree, if in sire outline what is strength of dam line underneath Frankie. What is strength of dam line on mother's side! 
What is balance in this pedigree? If DDR dogs are present, are they new lines or older DDR lines and where are they located? Sharpness and lack of prey drive = nerve issues for many....There is so much more to analyze in this pedigree, but in my glance at it I tend to see it similar to Carmen....very mish mash but potentially a nice breeding especially for what the breed needs today.
PS...Though Anrebri dogs are known for very good structure, they are not known for SL working ability, and not top sport dogs, but most of my dogs wouldn't make top sport dogs, but I think they make good working dogs to include service dogs.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

cliffson1 said:


> Against my better judgement I'm not going to comment on Anrebri dogs, though I'm sure between my information from one of the best friends of the lady that owns this kennel, and quite a bit of first hand knowledge with these lines.....I will just say focusing on the Anrebri dogs in this pedigree to come to a conclusion on what this litter will produce, I think is shortsighted at best. Just my opinion. I look at four quadrants of the pedigree, they all contribute to the litter, I personally know the general traits of the dogs in all four quadrants in these two pedigrees. Plus, I know the good/bad of Anrebri dogs. How folks can come to some of the projections without strong knowledge of not only the four quadrants, but also certain combinations that are present, baffles me. Where is the Anrebri dogs in this pedigree, if in sire outline what is strength of dam line underneath Frankie. What is strength of dam line on mother's side!
> What is balance in this pedigree? If DDR dogs are present, are they new lines or older DDR lines and where are they located? Sharpness and lack of prey drive = nerve issues for many....There is so much more to analyze in this pedigree, but in my glance at it I tend to see it similar to Carmen....very mish mash but potentially a nice breeding especially for what the breed needs today.
> PS...Though Anrebri dogs are known for very good structure, they are not known for SL working ability, and not top sport dogs, but most of my dogs wouldn't make top sport dogs, but I think they make good working dogs to include service dogs.


Thanks for your input! I have been researching dogs on the sires and finding good information. I can clearly see the Czech on the sires side. Can't find much on the dam's side though.

The sire is oversized though at over 100 pounds

What does "certified service dog" mean on the dams side (blanka z gemera)


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Cliff I just got home so your comments beat me to the punch -- I agree with your statement and this part especially

Cliff said ".I will just say focusing on the Anrebri dogs in this pedigree to come to a conclusion on what this litter will produce, I think is shortsighted at best. "

there is more to the pedigree --

now look at this -- note that all dogs have sport titles , somr V rated , .

Here is the pedigree data base for Charolotte Anrebri . Before you read the pedigree have a look at one of her progeny offered for sale right now ---- the pitch quote " imported from Czech Republic on January 17 2017.
They have an excellent pray drive, (ball drive) will chase tireless!
Could make great companion, sport, or 3 purpose dog! They have the original pedigree and the export pedigree microchip and tattoo!
The Mum is an retired police dog: Charlotte Anrebri IPO 3
The add in full 
--- https://www.kijiji.ca/v-dogs-puppie...ne/1285661821?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true 

the pedigree - a Francesco daughter Charlotte Anrebri 


Francesco bred to Immi Vikar Immi Vikar 
and here she is - keen looking dog Immi Vikar defence 12/2014 - Video Dailymotion (lol I like the background music )
young dog , female , I call this good sport material --- 


pedigree of sire of this litter Albern Anrebri would read Litter from Francesco Anrebri and Immi Vikar


the second photo copied pedigree shows Ice von haus Quintero as the sire . 
here is the pedigree of Ice Ice Von Haus Quintero . 

The sire of Ice was a dog imported from the old Eurosport service --- and here is some information 
SchraderhausK9.com - +1.253.843.1123 PST - German Shepherd Working Dogs 

the dog is no slouch . His pedigree shows some accomplished proven animals Chachar Bily Trpaslik

In the Ice pedigree you see a dog by the name of Eick vd Berger Hochburg -- this was Mike Diehl's competition dog and knowing the dogs that Mike likes this dog is not a wimp -- so go and see for yourself Diehl's K9 Training LLC


here is the pedigree of the female Ice was bred to Yucca YUCCA VOM HAUS QUINTERO

combined pedigree Litter from Ice Von Haus Quintero and YUCCA VOM HAUS QUINTERO

having had a good close look I still like this pedigree . There is a lot of strength behind it .

A common problem I see is people getting hung up on one name , for good or bad --- you have to look at the ENTIRE pedigree , the logic , the moving forward and understanding what and why the generations were chosen.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

lhczth said:


> Sorry to hijack the OP's thread, but, Chip and Carmen, please explain to me why dogs with nerve, resilience and stick issues are suitable for sport? Most dog sports, especially the protection sports, are hard enough with a good dog. Working a dog that lacks resilience and has stick issues is NOT a fun dog to train and at the minimum a huge disappointment and frustration for their handler. I actually tend to steer people away from the Anrebri lines because of these issues.


Do understand that all the dogs have been tested and do have titles. 

At the time when I and friend were having fun looking at the newly available DDR and Czech dogs being exported to North America - Anrebri was recognized as having great looking dogs (true!)
and being more or less a conformation priority breeder - meeting other criterion. Can we call it "working - show" ?

I think a better representation of a GSD show or high line type , than the Canto based lines that are show line representatives now. And that includes what we see , right to the current times in the yearly big Sieger Show trials .

Could have been alright . 

I have seen a few things in my time. 

I know of one dog that was expertly handled and trained and went to Nationals .
I knew the dog . Knew the multiple flaws . Knew the owner , trainer, was there to see remedial work and conditioning .

All training . All handling . No dog though . Fantastic "picture". I bow to the handler . 

I don't know where Anrebri is "at" now - Cliff has a close contact so he would know.

I only looked at the dogs when they were basically Anrebri all the way through. Very successful for achieving what they set out to accomplish. 

The dog or pup being discussed has so many other elements and the Anrebri sire line has changed in some of the dogs that are included in the pedigree.

Maybe that is availability = or a change in philosophy and goals.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

carmspack said:


> lhczth said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to hijack the OP's thread, but, Chip and Carmen, please explain to me why dogs with nerve, resilience and stick issues are suitable for sport? Most dog sports, especially the protection sports, are hard enough with a good dog. Working a dog that lacks resilience and has stick issues is NOT a fun dog to train and at the minimum a huge disappointment and frustration for their handler. I actually tend to steer people away from the Anrebri lines because of these issues.
> ...


thank you for taking the time to wife all the information with the links! I have been researching like crazy about the majk and franki anrebri combo....seems like a lot are talking about weak nerves,shyness, timid, out of those dogs. I couldn't find much good to say about gen actually. I understanding that there is MUCH more to the pedigree than the anrebri dogs but the sire seems to have a lot of anrebri and it does in fact worry me that I would end up with a nervy,shy,anxious mess.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Or you can end up with a dog like this Frankie grandson: 

https://en.working-dog.com/dogs-details/2510691/Lukas-z-Dvorakova-sadu

Pardon the google translation on the titles below:

This dog is an active-duty Czech Police dog

He is Master Police Czech republic 2013 - drugs search

He is Championship winner of Foreign Police 2014


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

konathegsd said:


> thank you for taking the time to wife all the information with the links! I have been researching like crazy about the majk and franki anrebri combo....seems like a lot are talking about weak nerves,shyness, timid, out of those dogs. I couldn't find much good to say about gen actually. I understanding that there is MUCH more to the pedigree than the anrebri dogs but the sire seems to have a lot of anrebri and it does in fact worry me that I would end up with a nervy,shy,anxious mess.


What do you know about Frankie or Francesco that would lead you to believe you get nervy, shy, anxious mess from them. I have personally seen over 70 pups out of a Frankie son, out of five different females, but I am curious as to your sources.
Btw, I was just thinking about a five year old female that I work with privately, out of Frankie son and Hera Akban Bohemia that I have often told the owner that she would make an ideal dog for guide dog for blind. Impeccable nerves and moderate drives, but Frankie has been bred to a lot, so it very conceivable he has all these nervebags out there. But when you have seen 70 dogs out of five different dams and only saw one pup/dog that you felt had nervous,weak temperament....it's just hard to believe that all these folks that know so much about Frankie have seen enough to point to him exclusively. &#55358;&#56631;*♀


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

cliffson1 said:


> konathegsd said:
> 
> 
> > thank you for taking the time to wife all the information with the links! I have been researching like crazy about the majk and franki anrebri combo....seems like a lot are talking about weak nerves,shyness, timid, out of those dogs. I couldn't find much good to say about gen actually. I understanding that there is MUCH more to the pedigree than the anrebri dogs but the sire seems to have a lot of anrebri and it does in fact worry me that I would end up with a nervy,shy,anxious mess.
> ...


i have never met any pups from anrebri. This was all just stuff I found on google mostly from forums. A lot from alpinek9. I saw multiple people saying majk and Frankie combo produced weak nerve dogs.

Obviously I trust people like you who have experience with the dogs.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

cliffson1 said:


> Btw, I was just thinking about a five year old female that I work with privately, out of Frankie son and Hera Akban Bohemia that I have often told the owner that she would make an ideal dog for guide dog for blind. Impeccable nerves and moderate drives, but Frankie has been bred to a lot, so it very conceivable he has all these nervebags out there. But when you have seen 70 dogs out of five different dams and only saw one pup/dog that you felt had nervous,weak temperament....it's just hard to believe that all these folks that know so much about Frankie have seen enough to point to him exclusively. ��*♀


Glad you posted this, Cliff, as my female has Bohemia lines on the dam's side. It's not a line I'm really familiar with, though, so always nice to learn something new. 

I'm one of those old farts who remembers the days when the GSD was the dog of choice for the blind, as well as for police and military work. And of course, a darn good family pet, too!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

konathegsd said:


> i have never met any pups from anrebri. This was all just stuff I found on google mostly from forums. A lot from alpinek9. I saw multiple people saying majk and Frankie combo produced weak nerve dogs.
> 
> Obviously I trust people like you who have experience with the dogs.


This Frankie granddaughter was a brood bitch at Alpine K9:

German Shepherd Dogs -German Shepherd Dams - Alpine K-9


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this is where it gets frustrating "I have been researching like crazy about the majk and franki anrebri combo....seems like a lot are talking about weak nerves,shyness, timid, out of those dogs."

where ?

the main complaint I heard about when they were were forefront in the pedigree was the moderate drives . 

if this is your problem with the pedigree go back and look again at all the additions that have been added to the pedigree and how they may modify the next generations . 

and then to avoid this one line you jump to some breeding that hasn't been under the same testing and scrutiny but the pup owners are happy ?


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

http://www.alpinek9forums.com/hello-t1552.html

http://www.alpinek9forums.com/opinions-on-this-litter-please-t2311.html


http://www.alpinek9forums.com/other-czech-kennels-t609.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/community.read?post=768178-beware-anrebri-kennel


Not saying I believe any of what this people have posted, just showing you guys what I have found. I trust people like you guys who are reputable, and have personal experiences with these dogs.

Thanks to everyone who has gave me input !


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

My last post on Anrebri dogs.....in general they are dogs with better than average structure, moderate drives, and sound nerve. They do not have the type drive( them alone) to be fashionable to top sport people. They do not have the type of nerve to load up on aggression in the pedigree and not get sharpness that leaks, they are not type of dogs needed for heavy ecollar use as is the case in many venues for precision or outing. They are good solid dogs very similar to dogs of years past, BUT when the pedigree is loaded with dogs with excessive prey for sport, or excessive aggression for PP or LE, or with excessive hardness for egos....then often an imbalance occurs in some pups that reflects sharpness, leaking, high suspicion which are often interpreted as nerves.
One last thing, you may be thinking how such a high percent of pups seen out of Frankie son by me didn't have those traits you mentioned( shyness,nervy, a mess) ....well four of the females bred to him were selected by me as adults TO BE bred to him. The other female was my own personal female. These females had compensatory traits to be bred to him to maintain balance for his strengths and weaknesses. Now maybe I was lucky, and I'm sure some will believe that...haha, but my point is many Frankie breedings were made by people throwing together two dogs with no knowledge of what's in the dog but what they see in front of them....and that can be a recipe for disaster sometimes. I hope this makes sense?.


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