# Can you train an adult dog to be more interested in fetch/balls/frisbee/etc.?



## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

I was walking in the park with Willow today and there was a guy with a beautiful black GSD playing frisbee on the other end of the field. That dog was SO into that frisbee. Totally engaged. OK, so, I've gotta admit, I was SUPER jealous.

Willow is just...I dunno, fetch isn't her thing. She'll play fetch with me (two-ball fetch, that is) but is generally more interested in me chasing her (which I do sometimes because it's fun and she's hilarious), and when we do play fetch she loses interest after 3-4 throws. In the yard, or on walks, whatever--she just doesn't stay interested. She drops the ball or stick or whatever and starts sniffing around. She's SOOOOO into sniffing. And marking. That's what we do for her exercise/stimulation: walk in the parks so she can sniff and pee on everything.

I love Willow, don't get me wrong, and we have fun. She just doesn't have near that level of engagement with me. I've been allowing it, I guess, because I want her to be happy and she appears to get such joy out of sniffing and peeing. So I was wondering if it's possible to get her to love fetch/frisbee the way that black GSD loved fetch/frisbee?

Full disclosure: I stopped carrying treats on walks months ago. She does love treats. I imagine me having food in my hand/pocket will increase engagement like...a lot. I guess I was just hoping she would engage like that with a ball/frisbee, and not be dependent on food treats.

Oh and for those that don't know Willow she's 4 years old and I've had her for a year.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

My shepherd before the one I have now lived for playing fetch and frisbee.This dog now not so much, the frisbees are of zero interest to all of the dogs.We were never able to get them excited about it.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean! My first dog, a GSD/Lab mix, was a fantastic dog, but he lacked any sort of ball drive. He had plenty of prey drive, but balls or frisbees just weren't his thing.

I was young though, and committed. At one point in trying to get him to learn fetch I actually got down on hands and knees and literally showed him how to retrieve that darn ball!

He was impressed enough to do it once for me, just to show me he understood. But never again.

Crestfallen as I was, we found other activities to pursue together (as in many, he was my horseback riding companion for 11 yrs!). But for some dogs, that's just the way it is. 

If it's important to you, make a list, so that you can refine your search next time!


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## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

I have had several older rescue dogs over the years. I think they are a lot like people. You can encourage them to do what they are already interested in doing, but getting them to do something they don't like is difficult.

Have you tried tug or a flirt pole? All of my dogs had enough interest in tug to make it fun for us.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

What else does your dog like? There is something called the premack principle and the transfer of value. If your dog is very into tug for instance, you can use that to make her more interested in fetch. Every time they complete the low value exercise, they get to engage in the high interest exercise. So every time the brought the frisbee back, you would play tug. Over time, because of the association with tug, the dog will begin to love playing frisbee like they love tug, and playing frisbee will become a reward by it’s self. This is one of the tricks I use to add drive to exercises. You just need to figure out the activity you want to use before. Ideally, it’s an activity that’s engaging with you, even if it’s just you getting really excited and running around. You can do it within food I believe, but I haven’t gotten the results I want that way.


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## Jorski (Jan 11, 2019)

I think of it like a window.
You can increase where the dog is in his window, but you can't move the window higher.

In other words, genetics play a huge role in the dog's potential.

Small story: when I went to pick up my pup at 8 weeks old, the breeder had a room that he could close off. While we talked and played with the pup, he had a flirt pole, a ball and a few other toys there.
At 8 weeks this pup was very interested in the ball and the pole.
The breeder commented about how "hard he was on the ball".
I had no reference for what I was seeing, having had retrievers it seemed kind of normal. You know, he went after the ball and wouldn't give up on it if it went under the couch etc.
I came to understand that Max had a huge ball drive. Now, the breeder had seen hundreds of puppies over the years, so he could easily see the drive.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Sabi was not a fetch dog. I got one throw. After that the look went from "are you joking" to "you threw it. You go get it"
Bud liked his version of fetch. Get it, kill it, strut around displaying the remains but don't let anyone touch it.
Two ball just meant he had to kill it faster and would trade the deceased ball for the still ball shaped thing.
Shadow used to love fetch. We don't do it much anymore.
I love the chase game! It is so much more a dog game then fetch. Unless there is competition involved I would much rather do that!


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I adopted Luc around 4 years old, he'd spent three years in a shelter from an older puppy (poor guy). 

I never did get him into fetching, and I tried running after the ball to show him what to do (he was like, WHAT are you doing?)

He liked playing chase though. So that's what we did.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

davewis said:


> I have had several older rescue dogs over the years. I think they are a lot like people. You can encourage them to do what they are already interested in doing, but getting them to do something they don't like is difficult.
> 
> Have you tried tug or a flirt pole? All of my dogs had enough interest in tug to make it fun for us.


 I made a flirt pole out of a walking stick, cotton rope, bright red duct tape and a dollar store wiggly tail fox stuffed animal. It's been a HUGE hit for Rogan and a revelation for me.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Harley will play fetch and loves it but even more the "chase me with the ball". He loves being chased.
Rogan loves playing fetch with a stick, tennis balls, soccer balls....anything


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

Elke likes the frisbee to carry around the yard or chew on. However, Princess' do not 'fetch'. She will herd dogs who do, but chase a silly toy that some dumb human threw away makes no sense to her. If you wanted it, why did you throw it away, stupid hooman....
Not every dog wants to play Stupid Human Games.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

You can actually go out and train almost any dog to fetch- I even had my husky doing it reliably- so it certainly is possible. You need to increase the value of the toy, then shape a retrieve, in steps. All my current dogs have a lot of natural toy drive, so I haven't had to do a lot of drive building- so certainly genetics play a role. 

But, it's basic drive building work. You can absolutely get there, step by step. The book "Clash Culture" has a good guide to a how-to, or you can search on YouTube. It won't be quite as over-the-top as a naturally driven dog, but it can be fun for both of you.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Thanks everyone! Was out on a hike all day, sorry (and pretty sure Willow used up one her lives...dogs have multiple lives, right?). but I really enjoyed reading all these answers!! Thanks!

And....I was thinking of making a "Stories" thread about this and might still, I dunno. But yeah we hiked in the mountains today, and we were carefully coming down a steep granite face that had water flowing over it. Willow walked over to the wet part and immediately lost her traction because of the algae on the rock. She slid like 50 feet down this rock face, including over a ~5 foot drop, and eventually crashed into the brush/logs at the bottom. The whole thing took maybe 4 seconds and I stood there with my hand over my mouth thinking "I'm about to watch my dog die."

She looked dazed for a second and I watched her thinking she would start limping, but nope, she was fine. As soon as I got down to her she jumped on me with this expression on her face like "OMG MOM DID YOU SEE THAT??!!" She has three little scrapes on her back feet and a couple of her nails got filed flat but that's it. We'll see how sore she is in the morning....

And yes, I am hating on myself more than a little bit for letting her get in that situation. It will certainly never happen again.


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

I have a 2.5 year old bitch and she could care less about balls or frizbees. She will chase them if I throw them and bring them back but will then go off and do other things, she is never excited for them to be thrown again.

She does however love her tug😀


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

On the Dave Kroyer website it’s fairly inexpensive to join there is a video building drive through frustration If you hold the dogs collar and kick the ball away make them drag you to the ball Also if you are playing with the ball end it while he still wants more and he only plays with the ball with you afterwards put it away Those are some things that might work


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## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

banzai555 said:


> And yes, I am hating on myself more than a little bit for letting her get in that situation.


As Grandma used to say, "All's well that ends well." On the other hand... Grandma used to keep a jar of bacon grease on the counter for baking.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

banzai555 said:


> Thanks everyone! Was out on a hike all day, sorry (and pretty sure Willow used up one her lives...dogs have multiple lives, right?). but I really enjoyed reading all these answers!! Thanks!
> 
> And....I was thinking of making a "Stories" thread about this and might still, I dunno. But yeah we hiked in the mountains today, and we were carefully coming down a steep granite face that had water flowing over it. Willow walked over to the wet part and immediately lost her traction because of the algae on the rock. She slid like 50 feet down this rock face, including over a ~5 foot drop, and eventually crashed into the brush/logs at the bottom. The whole thing took maybe 4 seconds and I stood there with my hand over my mouth thinking "I'm about to watch my dog die."
> 
> ...


Glad you guys are ok. Stuff happens. She is lucky to get to do cool stuff with you.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Glad she didn't get hurt, but sometimes stuff happens so fast. Don't hold it against yourself. Back to the fetch question, we have 2 full sisters 3 years apart. Tess lives for fetch, Della just doesn't care. She'll play sometimes but never consistently. Tessa just doesn't stop unless we make her, actually it can be annoying some days. But it makes her so happy I tend to give in and throw. Even with similar genetics you never know what they'll love.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Yea, us too. I think Rumo's record for maximum number of Fetches stands at five. When he considers himself "done", he'll run to the ball, then lay down with it between his paws. 

His favorite game is "Chase Me, then I'll Chase You!" He does some really cute funny things, like he will hide around the corner of the deck and then run out at you when you go by. He looks really happy when he's doing his Zoomies, his tongue hangs out. He also likes an intense dig (in the "allowed" corner of the yard which is just dirt). He also really likes to chase/pounce/hunt the flirt pole (in our case, it's just a stuffy on a long string) and he will do that until he drops. I restrict that because his joints aren't so great now, as a senior dog. Anyway for us, since he's not in training for anything, whatever makes him happy is fine with us.

I know what you mean though, about the acrobatic frisbee dogs!

Their sheer beautiful athleticism is what attracted us to German Shepherds in the first place!

I do agree that it's possible to see "ball drive" when they are pups, and it's probably easiest if it's innate.
I know it can also be trained (I trained Rumo) but I don't know if it will ever manifest at that intense level as when it's innate. (For instance, our neighbor's Golden Retriever is so focused on the ball, she will ignore everything else when her owner is holding it...when I asked him how he did it, he said he never really had to teach her at all, that's just the way she is. And that his dog before her, never was into fetch! Neither of us are particularly into dog-training, but I'm sure that a good dog trainer can get a dog excited about anything and can teach them how to do anything! So I guess it would be some dog-training education if you were really into getting Willow to be a passionate fetcher...)


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## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

GSDchoice said:


> know what you mean though, about the acrobatic frisbee dogs!


Just imagine the envy your neighbors feel every time you run around the yard and Rumo chases after you with the intensity of a wolf after prey. At the last second, he swerves to one side or the other, missing you by a few inches as he zooms by. Then he takes a wide turn around the flower bed, feet digging into the ground with each step, trying to turn as quickly as possible without going tumbling off into the rhubarb... Just to get into position for another 'zoom-by'


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

banzai555 said:


> Thanks everyone! Was out on a hike all day, sorry (and pretty sure Willow used up one her lives...dogs have multiple lives, right?). but I really enjoyed reading all these answers!! Thanks!
> 
> And....I was thinking of making a "Stories" thread about this and might still, I dunno. But yeah we hiked in the mountains today, and we were carefully coming down a steep granite face that had water flowing over it. Willow walked over to the wet part and immediately lost her traction because of the algae on the rock. She slid like 50 feet down this rock face, including over a ~5 foot drop, and eventually crashed into the brush/logs at the bottom. The whole thing took maybe 4 seconds and I stood there with my hand over my mouth thinking "I'm about to watch my dog die."
> 
> ...


I like to think about situations like this as great training. You like to hike. Hiking gets you into a multitude of situations. If your dog is accompanying you, she has to learn about what to go down versus what to go around! 

Your outing was a good lesson, for you both. No injuries equals a good adventure. Next time she'll likely stay off of the slippery stuff. Just a thought...


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Glad she's OK. Not sure this is even feasible for a dog . . . but--people who fish in the Smokies (and presumably other streams where there are deceptively slick rocks) often screw in little spikes, not more than about a quarter inch into their wading shoes. Living and working in the places you hike, you likely knew this already. It helps a lot for humans with maintaining your balance while fishing and stepping rock to rock. But I'm not sure if it would be workable to have Willow wear some kind of K9 foot cover, or if that would even have enough material to allow screw in studs. The more I think about it, probably not workable because dogs like to feel the ground under the paws. Probably better she just avoids the slick spots. But from personal experience I can say they don't always announce themselves with a coat of algae slime.

On frisbee catching, I've had two out of three who like doing it. The first came to us as a rescue, already chasing frisbees. We just kind of discovered she liked to do it. 
The girl in my profile pic learned how to cathc frisbees, but she already fetched Kong balls. It seemed to help with her to have something that flew frisbee like, hovering longer and slower. Her first "frisbee" catch was one of those plastic saucers you put under an indoor potted plant. The soft, dog-oriented discs are harder for me to throw accurately, but do avoid them getting hit in the lip with hard plastic. And although she learned to catch frisbees, she prefers to chase a ball on a string, thrown bolo style. 
Plus one on building ball drive by holding back a harness while you kick a ball just out of their reach. You just have to hold them by a harness, not by something that pulls against their neck.
Be careful what you wish for though--our youngest pup has made me his play-slave. Throw the ball for me 200 times, it'll be fun. Then repeat.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Watch out for log jams too! Creek crossings can seem innocuous at times, but they can also be deceptive, especially in spring. Almost lost one of mine to a log jam this spring.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Nigel said:


> Watch out for log jams too! Creek crossings can seem innocuous at times, but they can also be deceptive, especially in spring. Almost lost one of mine to a log jam this spring.


Yeah had a scare with Willow last spring; she jumped down a steep bank that was too steep for her to get up out of, then swam right into the river's current (the main river, not a creek!) and got swept downstream a ways. Luckily we had a long way to go before she would've hit a big logjam further down, and she swam back to the shore but I had to pull her out by her armpits. 

Generally we avoid mountain hikes in the spring anyway because the ticks are bad and/or there's still too much snow and ice on the trails. But yes, high water in the Rockies can be frightening!


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## Nala3179 (Sep 6, 2020)

banzai555 said:


> I was walking in the park with Willow today and there was a guy with a beautiful black GSD playing frisbee on the other end of the field. That dog was SO into that frisbee. Totally engaged. OK, so, I've gotta admit, I was SUPER jealous.
> 
> Willow is just...I dunno, fetch isn't her thing. She'll play fetch with me (two-ball fetch, that is) but is generally more interested in me chasing her (which I do sometimes because it's fun and she's hilarious), and when we do play fetch she loses interest after 3-4 throws. In the yard, or on walks, whatever--she just doesn't stay interested. She drops the ball or stick or whatever and starts sniffing around. She's SOOOOO into sniffing. And marking. That's what we do for her exercise/stimulation: walk in the parks so she can sniff and pee on everything.
> 
> ...


 My son had taught our GS Nala to catch and Chase the frizbee on a side roll. She was awesome and I was so proud of her. She would always make each catch amazing acrobatic style!!! Well on simple catch she came back limping and ears back. She tore her ACL on her left rear knee. I then read on line that GS + frizbee Equals torn ACL. They are so fast and limber and able to jump high but they're heavy. I am so sad for her because she loves the frizbee. I took it away and she fell into depression. I had to give the frizbee back. We now do real short tosses. Nala is happy once again!!
We are out of state and will have surgery when we get home. She has stopped limping.


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