# New Dog, Very Challenging



## Clancy_Wiggum

Today I drove four hours to Indiana to adopt a 7 month old female German Shepherd from a county humane society. I just got home a few hours ago.










The story with Kali is that she was purchased as a puppy by a family with small children. The mom couldn't handle her, and the father worked all the time. She has obviously had no training at all. She jumps up on people, and I can imagine her knocking kids down. Kali is very happy to meet women, but not so much men. I was putting her outside just now when she didn't want to go, and I think she bared her teeth at me just a little as I pushed her out the door. When I reached to grab her collar, she shrunk back as though I was going to hit her. I suspect that the dad in her family must have hit her for reasons she did not understand, probably discipline delivered hours later after whatever she was supposedly being punished for.

So I am starting not just from scratch, but in the hole quite a bit. She has every bad habit there is. I want Kali to be aggressive, just not against me, so I want to correct her, but just not too much. It is a fine line, and not very easy to accomplish. I am going to start with a pocket full of treats to get her to understand the idea of accepting commands, or at least coming to me when called. No one has done that for her before. She is very smart; she started whining when I picked up a leash and attached it to my male's collar while she was crated. She knew the leash meant leaving; she whined the instant I touched it.

I think I have a great dog here. She is purebred and eligible for AKC registration. I suspect she has a European pedigree. It is a crime against all that is right and holy that a dog this fine could be at a county pound, which is why I drove four hours to get her.

I want to do everything right, and I will be reading a lot on this site in the next few days. But for the love of shepherds, please help me! I feel like I am in over my head. All suggestions are appreciated. Thank you.


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## onyx'girl

Build up her confidence, get her into a class so you can build your bond, but first you should do a two week shutdown and start practicing NILIF to set her up for success.


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## BowWowMeow

You do not want her to be aggressive. You might want her to be protective but that is a natural instinct. You don't ever want to correct growling though. Just remember that this is all super new to her and she is trying to protect herself. She has to learn to trust you. 

She is scared right now so you need to minimize stress. If you want her to go outside toss a handful of treats or yummy food (cheese or chicken) out there and let her run out there after them. Do the same to get her into the house. 

As onyx'girl said, she needs tons of structure right now. Reward her for everything she does that is what you want, even if it's the tiniest thing. Avoid petting her on the head, or grabbing her collar. You may even need to avoid looking at her initially. Treat like a pup, keep things positive, simple and structured. And make sure she gets lots of leashed walks so she can burn off some of that anxiety. IF she is afraid of you, you should be the one walking her.


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## llombardo

I wouldn't even let her out without a leash yet. You don't know if she is a runner or jumper or if she would come back in any of these cases.


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## onyx'girl

llombardo said:


> I wouldn't even let her out without a leash yet. You don't know if she is a runner or jumper or if she would come back in any of these cases.


I agree, and I'd use a martingale collar so she can't slip out of it. 
Agree with Ruth too, aggression is something you don't need to tap into. Especially when it is fear based.


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## glowingtoadfly

Reminds me of my girl! Maybe there is a trainer or behaviorist who can help you one on one  She is gorgeous.


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## middleofnowhere

I'd use a short lead around the house (cheap one from $ store with loop cut so it's just flat & straight) so you will not be "grabbing the collar". I would not "push" the dog anywhere but rather lure/bring/take her out side. 
If she's responsive to food, I would call her to me with food to pick up the lead (see cheap short lead note). I'd be using a lot of lures and rewards right now.

So congratulations on your "Challenge" -- Maybe that should be her name?


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## Chip18

Petty much just gonna expand on what's been said first this:

No training during this time you want to develop a bond with your dog. A getting to know your dog period his has been proven to develope fewer handler/dog "issues" with K9 teams, I did not do that with my rescue GSD, I had "problems" but it all worked out in the long run. 
I just got a rescued dog – what do I do? | stickydogblog

I had "people "aggression issues you seem to have "fear" issues. Both take time and patience. Both need the same solution your dog needs to look to you for guidance. Your dog should not pick and chose who's a problem that's your job and you need to show him, he can trust you and what normal interactions look like.

Leerburg | Who Pets Your Puppy or Dog

Very similar to this:
Five Golden Rules for Working with Fearful Dogs by Nicole Wilde | Fearfuldogs' Blog

Finally don't screw up your hard work by having a bad encounter, a dog fight at a Dog Park or bad encounter with "I thought my dog was friendly folks" will show your dog that "you" can't protect him!
Leerburg | Dog Parks: Why They Are A Bad Idea

"My" personal belief is that in addition to the obvious possibility of a fight, if your dog runs around out of control with a pack of dogs he learns you don't matter! 

I'm sure once you put a lot of time and training into your dog that is most likely not the case but if you put a lot of time in training into your dog why take the risk?
Are Dog Parks a Good Idea for Service Dogs? | Working Like Dogs
And:
Three Dogs Who Shouldn’t Be at the Dog Park or Daycare | Robin Bennett

To start leash work:






My guys were all taught to ignore other dogs and I never put them in a position to be attacked or struck
by another dog. I never had leash reactive dogs but if you do:





Good luck and have fun with your dog.


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## SunCzarina

Patience and structure, she's very young and you can help get her over her past life! 

I took in a girl from a very similar situation. She was a lot of work getting her through her fears but she grew up to be wonderful. Although she never did get over her distrust of men...


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## Sri

Just want to add one thing to all the great advice you got here. In relation to the collar grab reaction, use lots of treats so she is conditioned to the collar grab as something positive. 


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## Chip18

Sri said:


> Just want to add one thing to all the great advice you got here. In relation to the collar grab reaction, use lots of treats so she is conditioned to the collar grab as something positive.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


The short drag leash for in the house control is a much much better alternative to "collar grabbing" in my opinion. Don't know this dog or any previous history but I'd be willing to bet that she has experienced "collar grabbing" by men in her past? Would'nt go there myself.


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## llombardo

Chip18 said:


> The short drag leash for in the house control is a much much better alternative to "collar grabbing" in my opinion. Don't know this dog or any previous history but I'd be willing to bet that she has experienced "collar grabbing" by men in her past? Would'nt go there myself.


The problem with this is that one still has to grab the collar to put the leash on. You can train a dog a command that allows one to put the leash on. It's simple to teach.


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## Chip18

llombardo said:


> The problem with this is that one still has to grab the collar to put the leash on. You can train a dog a command that allows one to put the leash on. It's simple to teach.


The "grabbing" part got me. Don't know if the OP said anything about "grabbing"?

But yes you are correct.


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## Chip18

Sri said:


> Just want to add one thing to all the great advice you got here. In relation to the collar grab reaction, use lots of treats so she is conditioned to the collar grab as something positive.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Now your talking!


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## Clancy_Wiggum

Thanks for the links and advice that was posted. 

Kali is submissively urinating a lot. I don't think she ever did for the woman who took care of her at the shelter. I understand submissive urinating, so I don't get angry about it. It's nice to not have any carpet in my house, all hardwood floors picked out with pets in mind. It is becoming more obvious to me that the man in her life hit her quite a bit. She seems convinced I will do the same.


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## David Winners

Here's a book recommendation:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0976641402?pc_redir=1395992891&robot_redir=1[/ame]

David Winners


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## Blanketback

I'm very happy for this girl, now that she's found a forever home with someone who knows the breed and will be able to give her the life she deserves! I'm happy for you too, OP - I think she'll be just fine once she settles into your own routine.

I don't think that it's a good idea to assume she was abused in her past home. Lots of times the newly adopted dogs are pretty apprehensive when their lives are tuned upside down, and they need time to adjust. She needs to get to know you, and the submissive urination and the lifted lip are her ways of showing you she's not comfortable yet. These are normal reactions, especially if she was a handful in her previous home - she may have been isolated quite a bit, since you've got to figure that she'd been there for 5 months and this is a difficult period: if the owner was so overwhelmed that rehoming (abandoning, at the shelter) was their choice, then I can imagine the pup was either crated or banished to the yard or basement to control the (what we all think of as fun, lol) crazy puppy stage. If you allow her the time to find herself before you start asking things from her, then I think you'll be able to form a bond sooner rather than later. Good luck with this lovely girl!


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## Bridget

You have received good advice. Trust, bond and confidence first before actual training.


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## Clancy_Wiggum

Thanks.

David, your link doesn't open for me.


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## Chip18

Clancy_Wiggum said:


> Thanks for the links and advice that was posted.
> 
> Kali is submissively urinating a lot. I don't think she ever did for the woman who took care of her at the shelter. I understand submissive urinating, so I don't get angry about it. It's nice to not have any carpet in my house, all hardwood floors picked out with pets in mind. It is becoming more obvious to me that the man in her life hit her quite a bit. She seems convinced I will do the same.


When we get rescues we all speculate on why or how it's just human nature. But how we get them past there issues is what's important. 

I kept people out of my "people aggressive" dogs face, I kept him out of dog parks and I did not do "I thought my dog was friendly folks" and taught him to ignore other dogs. My dog learned what was expected of him and looked to me for direction. He knew I had his back.
"Who pets my puppy or Dog" was what I did.

It was my "theory" that this same approach would also work for dogs with fear issues.
Fearfuldogs' Blog | Positive help for fearful dogs
Five Golden Rules for Working with Fearful Dogs by Nicole Wilde | Fearfuldogs' Blog

Pretty much looks like I was right.


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## llombardo

Clancy_Wiggum said:


> Thanks for the links and advice that was posted.
> 
> Kali is submissively urinating a lot. I don't think she ever did for the woman who took care of her at the shelter. I understand submissive urinating, so I don't get angry about it. It's nice to not have any carpet in my house, all hardwood floors picked out with pets in mind. It is becoming more obvious to me that the man in her life hit her quite a bit. She seems convinced I will do the same.


A friend of mine took in a dog that was abused. He didn't understand the peeing and freaking out. He is a loud man and was offended by the dogs actions. After listening to his stories for almost a year , his girlfriend came to me because it was getting to the point where she felt she was going to have to choose one or the other. I told her to tell him not to push himself on the dog, if she approached him then he should give her a treat, tell her good girl and carry on. I stressed the ignoring part because that was exactly the opposite of what he was doing. I told him to feed her, give her water, basically take over her care without being over bearing. I also told him to not yell at her about the peeing. Within a couple weeks they noticed a difference, within a month he felt accomplished and she became a different dog.


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## Chip18

llombardo said:


> A friend of mine took in a dog that was abused. He didn't understand the peeing and freaking out. He is a loud man and was offended by the dogs actions. After listening to his stories for almost a year , his girlfriend came to me because it was getting to the point where she felt she was going to have to choose one or the other. I told her to tell him not to push himself on the dog, if she approached him then he should give her a treat, tell her good girl and carry on. I stressed the ignoring part because that was exactly the opposite of what he was doing. I told him to feed her, give her water, basically take over her care without being over bearing. I also told him to not yell at her about the peeing. Within a couple weeks they noticed a difference, within a month he felt accomplished and she became a different dog.


Good advice glad you were able to help them all. Sometimes, patience. time and understanding can be in short supply!


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## Clancy_Wiggum

I bought Kali a rubber ball on the way home, and I played with her with it for the first time today for a few minutes. She loves chasing the ball, and she brings it right back to me every time. As soon as the ball comes out, she goes from being what looks like a horribly untrained dog to being a very well trained dog. I may be able to use the ball as a treat for training. The only thing I have tried to train her to do so far is to go into her crate when I let her inside, and I have been using a handful of dry cat food for that.


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## onyx'girl

Get a ball on string and start tugging with her! She may love to tug as well, let her win often so her confidence level builds.


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## Sri

Caradonnelly2007 said:


> Hi, I'm brand new to this forum. I have no clue how to post a question. Any help would be awesome! TIA!!!



Hope you figured out. Or else just click on forums choose appropriate topic , then subtopic, then click on 'New Thread'. 


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## Clancy_Wiggum

onyx'girl said:


> Get a ball on string and start tugging with her! She may love to tug as well, let her win often so her confidence level builds.


You're right, she does!


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## Clancy_Wiggum

About three weeks along, and I think Kali has made progress. She doesn't jump up any more. Walking on leash is getting a lot better; when I got her she would just drag a person behind her. She's a natural at 'sit.' Lay down, speak, and stay are all coming along.

What still needs a lot of improvement is her socialization with other dogs. I have had her around a 4 m/o female boxer pup and a 7 m/o lab mix, and she wants to kill both of them. She goes nuts in the crate when the boxer is in my house.

She can also be disobedient in an intelligent way. She doesn't like being in the yard by herself, so she won't go outside for me in the morning. I play tug with her in my computer room; she likes to go in there and not come out. I get to have her with me most of the day, but I still have to crate her for short periods during the day, and she won't come to me at the crate to put her up.

And it would be nice to be able to leave her in the backyard without her barking constantly at everything, but I'm not sure that is going to happen.

Her drive and energy level are just intense.


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## pyratemom

Clancy_Wiggum said:


> I bought Kali a rubber ball on the way home, and I played with her with it for the first time today for a few minutes. She loves chasing the ball, and she brings it right back to me every time. As soon as the ball comes out, she goes from being what looks like a horribly untrained dog to being a very well trained dog. I may be able to use the ball as a treat for training. The only thing I have tried to train her to do so far is to go into her crate when I let her inside, and I have been using a handful of dry cat food for that.


Get some super yummy dog treats - liver is great, so are hot dogs. Cat food can have a lot of filler that isn't good.


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## middleofnowhere

Alternatively, you mentioned she was ball obsessed... Put a name on crating up (I have a different word for each dog) and reward. Toss the ball in the crate, name it when she goes in after it, let her bring it out and play with her and the ball. 
Then I'd transition to treats but crating always will get a reward. I have a food obsessed youngster. Crating up was the EASIEST thing for me to teach - If I could only make other behaviors that easily understood, I swear that pup would stand on her head and howl the star spangled banner on key for a treat. (And with her kibble is a very fine treat.)
Toy rewards are much easier for me. Unfortunately, my youngster is less interested in them.


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## Chip18

Hmm I link this thread alot but haven't actually read it myself in awhile! :blush:

Gonna add a couple more links that have some useful info for dogs in general and those with "issues' especially.

Post 19 links to an essay that explains in detail about "Sit on Dog" and post 39 shows what it looks like:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/426322-selzer-sitting-dog-4.html

I never did the Sit on Dog with my guys (in retro spec) I should have done it with my GSD but did not know about it the time of my GSD's "issues."

Did do it with a fearful Boxer at rescue and I was stunned at how settled down he became! I did it pretty much like the YouTube clip in post 39.

And The Place command:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGq_5r0DeE



The Place Command I never did either. I did "go to bed," that works kinda, OK at home but it's meaningless anywhere else..."where is bed???"

My Bully guys (who loved people) would go to bed but they would wiggle and whine until I released them to greet people! Not exactly what I was looking for.

I think the place command what have proved much more useful! Live and learn.


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## Longfisher

*I would like to add one thing.*

My Zeus was not necessarily fearful of me or anyone in the family when he was younger. But he was distrustful of us about certain things that were unfamiliar to him at that time...like the vacuum, baths, taking oral medications, ear drops, brushing his teeth and to some extent even just being affectionate and touching him (he still hates anyone touching his anus).

A trainer said that the most important thing was to not allow the dog to have a bad session with me or anyone in the family. Essentially, the trainer said, "Don't let your frustrations go down the leash".

I didn't really adjust to that advice and still used loudly shouted and angry commands when the dog didn't obey or I gave him hard corrections, etc., etc., etc. Over time I learned that tenderness, an even and non-threatening tone, persistence but not insistence, structure, repetition and, above all, rewards (praise plus treats) won over his loyalty, friendship and following.

He's really a great dog now. And, I'm glad I had a change of heart and methods mid-stream. I'm sure if you just keep your cool at all times, make every encounter positive, care for and protect your dog and work hard it'll all work out.

GSDs are smart enough to learn good behavior even when they're mid-life. You're no where near that period.

LF


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## Chip18

Longfisher said:


> A trainer said that the most important thing was to not allow the dog to have a bad session with me or anyone in the family. Essentially, the trainer said, "Don't let your frustrations go down the leash".


That is great advise!



Longfisher said:


> I didn't really adjust to that advice and still used loudly shouted and angry commands when the dog didn't obey or I gave him hard corrections, etc., etc., etc. Over time I learned that tenderness, an even and non-threatening tone, persistence but not insistence, structure, repetition and, above all, rewards (praise plus treats) won over his loyalty, friendship and following.


Yep had a Boxer/Mix! Can you say fold like an umbrella! A harsh "SIT" shut him right down???

"Sit" worked much better so I changed. Now I try and out think my dog! Works much better!


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