# First time GSD owner... need advice.



## Coolhandluke135 (Jul 25, 2011)

I work for our county's sheriff's office and I've always been stunned at the amazing work our GSD's can do. I decided to go through a recommended breeder and soon after we took home our first shepherd. 

We named our little boy Tank, and so far he's exceeded all of our expectations. He's currently 6 months old and around 70 lbs, so he's grown into his name. 

He has 1 floppy ear, but from reading on the forum, that shouldn't really be a concern as it will more than likely pop up. 

The real concern I have is that he refuses to jump... at all. He wont jump on the bed, while playing with his ball, or getting into the car (MAYBE 2 feet at most). Sometimes he's a little slow to get up, but other than that, he's full speed. He has no issues running and his gait seems fairly normal for a shepherd. I know GSD's are prone to hip problems, but both his parents are rated in good condition and I would think this isn't an issue at 6 months, although I know it can be. 

I've put pressure on his hips and allowed him to walk and it feels like a slight popping in his rear joints. I've also laid him down and very lightly extended his leg, but he immediately cried in pain so I stopped. 

ANY words of wisdom from someone familiar with the breed would be helpful. Has anyone seen the jumping issue before? Should I be concerned with hip dysplasia already? The last thing I want to do is over exercise him and make it worse (he likes to go running with me and has an extreme ball drive). 

I know the only real way to tell is to get X-rays, so that will in our immediate future. 

Thanks in advance!!


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

You really do need to get him checked. Unfortunately 6 months is not too young for it to show up. At 6 months is too early to say that HD won't develop, but if it is there it can be identified. There is no way of knowing for sure without the XRays

You said you used a reputable breeded, if so how does the breeder normally handle HD pups?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Yeah, get him x-rayed ASAP. Also, take a good hard look at his body conditioning. 6 month old pups should be LEAN, with a very obvious waistline and "tuck" at the abdomen. 70lb is pretty heavy for a 6 month old. He may just be exceptionally large, but he also may be a bit heavy for his hips to support. For comparison, my pup is 7 months, a little shy of 60lb, and you can see his back couple of ribs when he runs. The less weight on those developing hips, the better.


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## Coolhandluke135 (Jul 25, 2011)

I would say he's lean. He has the slight tuck at his waistline and his ribs are visible. He's always been a rather large pup and was the biggest in the litter. 

Is it possible for them to grow too quickly and he could be experiencing growing pains? Also, should I take him off puppy food now? I know he's still a puppy, but I've heard it can cause the excessive growth and accelerate joint problems.

I'm going to swing by the vet tomorrow and see what they can do in the next week or so.


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## idahospud49 (Jan 28, 2011)

Coolhandluke135 said:


> I would say he's lean. He has the slight tuck at his waistline and his ribs are visible. He's always been a rather large pup and was the biggest in the litter.
> 
> Is it possible for them to grow too quickly and he could be experiencing growing pains? Also, should I take him off puppy food now? I know he's still a puppy, but I've heard it can cause the excessive growth and accelerate joint problems.
> 
> I'm going to swing by the vet tomorrow and see what they can do in the next week or so.


Yes growing pains are very possible. Its called panosteitis. My first GSD had it quite severely. Would not eat unless I personally fed him, wouldn't move unless I walked him around. As painful as it is for them, I hope that is all it is and not something more serious!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Coolhandluke135 said:


> I would say he's lean. He has the slight tuck at his waistline and his ribs are visible. He's always been a rather large pup and was the biggest in the litter.
> 
> Is it possible for them to grow too quickly and he could be experiencing growing pains? Also, should I take him off puppy food now? I know he's still a puppy, but I've heard it can cause the excessive growth and accelerate joint problems.
> 
> I'm going to swing by the vet tomorrow and see what they can do in the next week or so.


OK, you've just got a big pup, not an overweight one. Yes, he can absolutely be experiencing growing pains. This is called Panosteitis and is common in GSDs. I would definitely take him off the puppy food and put him on an adult maintenance food. Puppy food has too much calcium that can cause them to grow too quickly.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

*Call and check with your breeder. See how the rest of the pups are doing in the litter. *

Definitely get to the vets to check him out!


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

As an owner of a GSD with one floppy ear that taped for 4 months I'd get right on it. When that window closes,it closes forever.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I'm going to echo what the others said and get him an x-ray ASAP. It could also be pano (growth pains). Sounds like he is a big puppy and growing too quickly for his own good; what are you feeding him?


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

My last 2 GSDs were 70 pounds at 6 months old and topped out between 90-95. I don't think he's oversized at all. But if a little rest ain't helping,I'd get it evaluated.


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## Coolhandluke135 (Jul 25, 2011)

Well, we had x-rays done today, and of course they came back worst case scenario. He was positive for the early onset of severe hip dysplasia; they said his left hip was 60% cartilage, which apparently anything over 50% is considered normal. However, his right hip was less than 20% and they said that's going to cause major complications and he could be completely lame and need total hip replacement by age 2 =(. 

The vet recommended something called "TPO", which I've never had experience with, but it sounds like a pretty tough surgery. 

I called out breeder and she pretty much told us to pound sand. 

Even after 4 months he's such a big part of our family, so I guess the next step is to figure out how to get him the proper help he needs to resume a normal enjoyable life. 

Has anyone had experience with the TPO surgery they're suggesting?


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## GSD84 (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm sorry your going through this! That completely sucks! Did you have a health guarantee by any chance with your breeder?


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## Coolhandluke135 (Jul 25, 2011)

I was under the assumption that I had a guarantee, but after talking to the stud's owner, she basically said "that's the risk you take when you buy a dog." Which made me feel like garbage. 

We love the dog unconditionally and we are definitely prepared to do whatever it takes for him. It just happened at an extremely bad time. My wife is 9 months pregnant and due any day, so it's putting a lot more undue stress on her. She's pretty heartbroken about the whole thing since he's such a good dog.


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## GSD84 (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm new to the whole breeder thing so I can't really give you advise as we just finished dealing with a breeder that wasn't all that great either. Too bad it wasn't written on paper when you signed the contract/guarantee :S


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

why did you talk to the stud's owner? The "breeder" is the person who has the dam, registered the pups into their name, and sold you the pup. 
Make sure that the person that recommended them knows about how the breeder handles things. They may not be so quick to recommend them again.

How heavy , big, was this pup when you got him . 
70 lbs at 6 months is heavy . 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Coolhandluke135 (Jul 25, 2011)

The breeder was out of town and the stud's owner was watching their dogs (if that makes sense.) I called just to get a general feeling and what the parent's hips were actually rated. The breeder is supposed to call me back, but I guess we'll find out. 

I'm just going to assume we're stuck like chuck and handle it how we would.


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## Herpdoc (Jul 27, 2011)

A TPO (Triple Pelvic Osteotomy) is where the surgeon makes 3 cuts in the pelvis to rotate the acetabulum (the socket of the ball and socket joint in the hip) to make the femoral head of the femur fit the joint better. Normal femoral joints have at least 50% coverage of the femoral head. Some dogs do not completely form their acetabulum when growing. This is genetic, however, you can have a OFA certified "good" or "great" stud and bitch, and still get a puppy that ends up with bad hips.

TPO's must be done during the growing phase of the puppy i.e.: the growth plates have not grown and they are NOT skeletally mature. Once the dog is skeletally mature, options become 1. Total Hip Replacement (must be skeletally mature for this one) or FHO (Femoral Head Ostectomy) and this is a salvage procedure.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Sorry about your pup's HD diagnosis but so glad you are committed to helping him! Luckily HD is not a death sentence and can often be controlled with proper exercise, supplements and a good diet. 

My first gsd was diagnosed with severe bilateral HD at just under a year old. When she was 5 I got her a total hip replacement. She lived to be almost 12 and died of something unrelated. She was very active: hiking, backpacking, etc. I limited her running and jumping but we did tons of walking and hiking and as much swimming as possible too. 

My current dog, Rafi, also has joint problems. He had all sorts of symptoms when I adopted him (joints popping, falling down the stairs, poor muscle tone, pain when I touched his hips) but now, 3.5 years later, he's doing great! He's extremely active and athletic. I have him on a regime of supplements: Ester C, joint support (Springtime Inc. Longevity & Joint Health) and fish oil. You would never know he has problems! I also keep him quite lean and feed him a raw diet. 

There are a few people on this board whose dogs have had the TPO surgery. I think the dog needs to be young and under a certain weight? I would recommend starting a new post titled something like: HD Diagnosis: TPO Surgery? in order to get their attention.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

coolhand you have to have the conversation with the breeder . I would have kept the news until I spoke with them. Who knows the person minding the dogs , the stud owner , might embellish things - conversation something like this -- "the guy called and he was calling you every name in the book - he was so upset blah blah blah " and then you talk to them and there is already a tone to the discussion.
Carmen


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Coolhandluke135 said:


> The vet recommended something called "TPO", which I've never had experience with, but it sounds like a pretty tough surgery. .....
> 
> Has anyone had experience with the TPO surgery they're suggesting?


I would suggest a consult with a surgeon to see if your dog is really a candidate for this surgery. Ask the surgeon this very question - is my dog a good candidate for this surgery and would this be the surgery you would choose for your dog under the same circumstances. The angles of the bones, etc. have to be right, and there can't be any arthritis. A regular vet can't determine this, and you want to make sure that if you do this, your surgeon isn't "pushing the limits" of the surgery and that this really is the right option for your pup.

You should also post this question in the Health Section, as Ruth mentioned, you might get more input.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

I was just wondering, were you sent home with a copy of a contract at all? I'm SO SORRY about the bad news. I can't imagine. I will keep you guys in my thoughts.


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## TankGrrl66 (Jun 29, 2010)

That sucks that you, your family and your dog have to go through this. But like others said, this isn't a death sentence...

Make a thread to get a good discussion about the TPO...Others would be happy to share their experience with you and offer their support/advice. 

Would any puppy lemon laws apply here, other members? I am not too familiar with them, but maybe they would in this case...? 

You really need to sort this out with the breeder. Always be the nice one here (I know, Cpt. Obvious right? lol but I personally would get a little heated!), and expect the 'go pound sand' talk to most likely continue. 

You said there was no written garuntee or paper contract, correct? If so, hope the actual breeder is a better person than the stud's owner.

They really need to evaluate their dogs, if not cull them from breeding entirely... 

Best of luck! :hugs:


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Puppy Lemon Laws probably wouldn't apply. Those are pretty specific that the person who sold the pup KNEW that it was sick and didn't disclose it.

Now, if you sold the obviously HD-affected pup at 7 months old, then yes lemon laws might apply. But, buying a puppy who develops HD, no.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I'm so sorry about the diagnosis, but I'm glad you are willing to do what it takes to help him. The surgery is VERY expensive, so be prepared. Hopefully when you talk to the breeder, they will be a bit more helpful; at the very least, they should be concerned about it because their dogs are NOT producing good hips... if word gets out, it's not good for their reputation, and they know it. Personally I think they should be doing backflips to help make this right--if I were the breeder, I'd offer a full refund or a replacement pup--but it all depends on the contract, if there was one.


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