# Broken teeth?



## BritneyP

I didn't want to post this in the Health & Wellness section, as I thought it might be more applicable here.


My young female (2 years) is an absolute nut case. She goes bananas on her crate door in the car if something sets her off, she can't have a bowl left in her crate with her or she'll go mental on it, and she is just generally very reckless in everything she does.

She broke one of her top canines right before Christmas and I stopped doing bitework with her immediately after and she had a root canal on that tooth about a week and a half ago. I brought her out to training yesterday with the intention of doing bitework with her for the first time in about 6 weeks, and while I was playing tug with her in OB, I noticed one of her bottom canine's was a little bloody. Sure enough, it was broken and bleeding from the pulp hole.

I'm going to bring her to my vet on Monday to look at it, but this is literally breaking my heart. I'd really love to hear from folks who've dealt with broken teeth, root canals, no root canals, how many root canals to do, how all of these things affected (or didn't affect) their bitework, etc.


Thanks in advance!


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## hunterisgreat

Do root canals, and titanium crowns. I respectable veterinary dentist will guarantee them for life, even if they come off and you can't find them.

Was she a kennel biter? Are the backside of her canines "cupped" or worn into? of so, thats the weak point, and the remaining ones will snap there. Get 3/4 crowns on those to both stop the wear from kennel biting/etc, and preserve most of the tooth. Full crowns don't allow for future X-rays and so you don't know whats happening in that tooth after a TI crown.

A root canal-ed tooth, especially that young, is weaker than a healthy tooth, and if you plan on doing bite work you need/should to crown it. A 5 year old dog has much stronger teeth than a 2 year old, as the pulp thins as the dog ages. A 2 year olds canine is comparatively hollow.


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## lhczth

I have only had to deal with one broken tooth. Nike sheered her canine off right down below the gum line. The dentist blunted it, did a root canal and it had no affect on her bitework. If there is blood I would have the tooth looked at by a specialist since it probably needs a root canal. 

I would be more concerned about finding a way to stop the crate behaviors that are causing the broken teeth.


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## hunterisgreat

Just noticed you are in central north carolina. Dr Katherine Queck practices in Charlotte I believe, and Charleston, and is one of the most skilled out there. She is also very well aware of the particulars of dogs doing protection work.


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## NancyJ

Catherine Queck is in Charlotte
She does teeth for police departments and did a root canal for me
Board Certified Veterinary Dentist.

There ya go. Cross Post. I highly recommend her.


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## hunterisgreat

lhczth said:


> I have only had to deal with one broken tooth. Nike sheered her canine off right down below the gum line. The dentist blunted it, did a root canal and it had no affect on her bitework. If there is blood I would have the tooth looked at by a specialist since it probably needs a root canal.
> 
> I would be more concerned about finding a way to stop the crate behaviors that are causing the broken teeth.


If there is blood then pulp is exposed, and 100% of exposed pulp fractures get infected.


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## hunterisgreat

jocoyn said:


> Catherine Queck is in Charlotte
> She does teeth for police departments and did a root canal for me
> Board Certified Veterinary Dentist.


Beat you


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## FG167

lhczth said:


> I would be more concerned about finding a way to stop the crate behaviors that are causing the broken teeth.


I am going through the same issues with Kastle. He's chipped a couple of his adult teeth with this bad behavior. What would you suggest we (meaning Britney and I) do? I've tried quite a few different things and are onto a new plan but am definitely open to suggestions! I am assuming that Britney is too! (We've already discussed our issues)


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## NancyJ

hunterisgreat said:


> Beat you


Yeah and ya probably spelled it right too. 

She did braces for another dog of mine who had misalinged teeth due to a retained puppy tooth (this was NOT cosmetic!)

She is very good.


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## hunterisgreat

I'm gonna guess that if she is 2 years and snapping canines, then she is a heavy kennel biter. Probably the damage is done unless there was some significant event that caused the breaks, but really gotta stop the kennel biting somehow... my female was a kennel biter. Never saw her do it, but saw the aftermath on the kennel. The ultimate solution was... I stopped crating her. My older female doesn't bite the kennel, but clearly did when she was a puppy (I got her last year, but she's 7). My male was screwing up his teeth from tennis balls... totally different pattern of wear (flat on top as opposed to wear on the lower backside). Basically, keep the lesson with you moving forward, and for all future dogs


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## hunterisgreat

jocoyn said:


> Yeah and ya probably spelled it right too.
> 
> She did braces for another dog of mine who had misalinged teeth due to a retained puppy tooth (this was NOT cosmetic!)
> 
> She is very good.


I dunno if its closer for you, but she practices in Charleston now as well, at the Charleston Veterinary Referral Center. Those guys are absolutely top notch.


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## BritneyP

Thanks for the quick responses, guys!


I really haven't come to any conclusions about how to stop her from doing her crate antics, other than to install something to physically prevent her from doing it.. just not sure what. Plexi glass maybe?

I'm taking her to my vet Monday morning, he is an excellent dentist and does a lot of endodontic work for Police K9s in the area and has been working with bitework dogs for many, many years, so he understands the necessity of preserving the teeth.

Hunter - her pulp was exposed for over a month with the last one and luckily there was no infection.. How many times do people do root canals with dogs? My vet doesn't like to do extractions at all if they can be avoided, and he doesn't really mess with titanium at this point.


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## BritneyP

Also wanted to add: 

She doesn't seem to bite her outdoor kennel bars at all, just jumps around in there a lot.. I moved her into a large, black wire crate to sleep in and that seems to have helped for when she's crated downstairs because the bars are spaced far enough apart that she can't really bite them like she does on the front of a vari kennel (if that makes sense?).. 

I think all the problems have occurred in her crate in the car.. I suppose I could try putting her in a wire crate in the car as well and see if that helps. 

I can't believe how much angst this has caused me..  she is such a phenomenal dog and if she was just a pet dog and didn't have an entire career ahead of her, I wouldn't even worry about it because they don't bother her at all..


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## hunterisgreat

BritneyP said:


> Thanks for the quick responses, guys!
> 
> 
> I really haven't come to any conclusions about how to stop her from doing her crate antics, other than to install something to physically prevent her from doing it.. just not sure what. Plexi glass maybe?
> 
> I'm taking her to my vet Monday morning, he is an excellent dentist and does a lot of endodontic work for Police K9s in the area and has been working with bitework dogs for many, many years, so he understands the necessity of preserving the teeth.
> 
> Hunter - her pulp was exposed for over a month with the last one and luckily there was no infection.. How many times do people do root canals with dogs? My vet doesn't like to do extractions at all if they can be avoided, and he doesn't really mess with titanium at this point.


I consulted with 2 veterinary dentists, Dr Queck (and btw, Dr Queck is on the board of the Academy of Veterinary Dentistry and *very* highly regarded among veterinary dentists) and Dr Sweeney-Reeves. Both said if I continued doing bite work they considered Ti crowns as appropriate and didn't feel good about a canal alone holding up over the long run. Also, my male is older than yours, wasn't a kennel biter... so his teeth were stronger. On the flip side, we had wear problems, you have a break. The stub left over is less likely to break (purely the physics of leverage). My male is also an extremely hard biter which showed up on the X-rays as scar tissue at the base of the teeth roots where the root is pushing into the bone on a bite. The downside to a crown other than cost is that if it *does* ever snap again, its gonna happen at the end of the crown, which means an at or below gum line break... which may mean extraction. The bright side being, thats the thickest part of the tooth... can't imagine it breaking outside of blunt trauma. Canines, as I understand it, are incredibly hard to extract... which makes sense if you've looked at an X-ray.. the canine goes way deep into the jawbone. Both vets told me that if the pulp is exposed, it 100% dies and there is a 100% chance of infection.


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## BritneyP

hunterisgreat said:


> Canines, as I understand it, are incredibly hard to extract... which makes sense if you've looked at an X-ray.. the canine goes way deep into the jawbone. Both vets told me that if the pulp is exposed, it 100% dies and there is a 100% chance of infection.


I apologize, I guess I meant to say that she didn't have any infection back in the apex of her tooth (in the jawbone).. whatever superficial infection she did have in the pulp was drilled out and filled. 

This is really heartbreaking.. :/


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## hunterisgreat

BritneyP said:


> I apologize, I guess I meant to say that she didn't have any infection back in the apex of her tooth (in the jawbone).. whatever superficial infection she did have in the pulp was drilled out and filled.
> 
> This is really heartbreaking.. :/


It happens... I got worn canines on one, chipped a canine on another, and broke a front tooth out of each one. lol. No reason for heartache... part of playing hard


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## cliffson1

Otfentimes dogs that are crated too much, (especially in metal crates), and dogs that are kenneled too long develop boredom habits that result in spinning behavoirs, excessive biting and chewing on crates, fences, or metal/plastic dogpails,etc. This often will weaken teeth, and cause breakoffs when doing bitework.
some lines of dogs seem to have this problem more than others. Lastly, there are too many dogs today that are hyperactive and can't settle because of too much drive bred into them. Usally by Backclub breeders.


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## BritneyP

cliffson1 said:


> Otfentimes dogs that are crated too much, (especially in metal crates), and dogs that are kenneled too long develop boredom habits that result in spinning behavoirs, excessive biting and chewing on crates, fences, or metal/plastic dogpails,etc.


She's only crated overnight while she sleeps, other than that she's in her outdoor kennel (where she doesn't bite the bars) or she's out doing something. She doesn't chew on things out of boredom, she only does this behavior when she's overstimulated, i.e. in the car after I've put her away, when I take another dog out, etc.



> This often will weaken teeth, and cause breakoffs when doing bitework.


As I mentioned before, they didn't break during bitework, they broke during the actual act of biting her crate door.



> Lastly, there are too many dogs today that are hyperactive and can't settle because of too much drive bred into them. Usally by Backclub breeders.


I don't know that I subscribe to something called too much drive, lol.. she is definitely hyperactive, but she settles extremely well in the house and can lay on the couch with the best of them. What are backclub breeders? My dog came from one of the most well respected breeders in Belgium. He has been the Captain of the Belgian WUSV Team for many, many years.


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## Mrs.K

Try Crate Games. 

Nala was going nuts in the crate when she saw another dog working and bit the bars and bended them too. Indra destroyed a kennel in the car while the hatch was open and went on a search instead. All of them barked in a frenzy when somebody walked by another dog. They just went nuts in their crates, in the car. 

With Crate Games, (Debbie Zappia taught them us) all of that was resolved within a month. I swear on those games. So far, they have worked with every dog on the team. It'll also help you tremendously in obedience and a lot of other things. 

I know some people may roll their eyes. But they work. Not only for the crate but for a lot of other things too.


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## FG167

cliffson1 said:


> Otfentimes dogs that are crated too much, (especially in metal crates), and dogs that are kenneled too long


I don't think that's the case here. He gets lots of exercise/mental stimulation and then spends the evening hanging out with us. He always falls asleep among his toys a couple of hours before bed and he's absolutely perfect in his crate for bed time. He even will go right back in there before being told after his morning potty when I'm sleeping in (aka, until 7 am LOL).



BritneyP said:


> What are backclub breeders? My dog came from one of the most well respected breeders in Belgium. He has been the Captain of the Belgian WUSV Team for many, many years.


Ours too!  Ikie has more drive than Kastle and does not have these issues. In our case, it is a temper tantrum. He throws an absolute FIT when I don't spend every minute I am around with him. And if I get out a different dog, all bets are off. We are actually reverting to crating more often and more in-and-outs for now. He needs to learn to chill-out when I'm at home too.



Mrs.K said:


> Try Crate Games.
> 
> I know some people may roll their eyes. But they work. Not only for the crate but for a lot of other things too.


This is our current plan. Starting this week.


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## cliffson1

Just gave some general causes for why teeth sometimes break....didn't mean this specificly meant anyone, was just for general information....if it applied people can take it, if not its cool. 
The best trainers are not always the best breeders, but having said that, I was not passing judgement on anyone's breeder. I am simply referencing many dogs today who are unbalanced in drives with extreme over the top prey drive, that often leads to hyperactivity and subsequent behavoirs.


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## FG167

cliffson1 said:


> Just gave some general causes for why teeth sometimes break....didn't mean this specificly meant anyone, was just for general information....if it applied people can take it, if not its cool.
> The best trainers are not always the best breeders, but having said that, I was not passing judgement on anyone's breeder. I am simply referencing many dogs today who are unbalanced in drives with extreme over the top prey drive, that often leads to hyperactivity and subsequent behavoirs.


Oh yes, I totally understand that! I think that it might be really helpful for some people. I am simply hoping that you might have some more in that mind arsenal that will miraculously fix my crazy pup overnight


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## lhczth

OK, I'll be nice. When I read what you wrote, Falon, (will miraculously fix.....) I thought about what my husband would have suggested. I didn't always find his suggestions as funny as he did.


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