# why do bitches eat their puppies?



## Asche-zu-Staub (Apr 25, 2010)

this is pertaining to the person's thread with the 3 week old that has to be hand fed now.

What causes the bitch to eat all of her puppies? I've read they may eat one if there is something wrong with it, but couldnt find any good reasons as to why they would eat the entire litter. This is amazing to me and i would like to understand it.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Simple answer is the bitch has a screw loose. This is not normal. A weak or sickly puppy is nature taking it's course. But for a whole litter there is no legitimate reason. There is something off in the bitch's head.


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## Asche-zu-Staub (Apr 25, 2010)

is this a common occurrence?


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

I know of a bitch that ate her first 2 litters.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

It's not a common thing to happen.....however;..scary as it is...I hear of it more and more often.
I have also heard of females destroying their puppies, weeks AFTER being born.....truly females with some form of "screw loose".


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Certainly not common, though not unheard of. I've never experienced it, nor do I know of anyone who has firsthand. IMO any bitch who does that, even if completely normal and wonderful in every other respect, should never be bred again.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Chris...I agree with you.
I cannot imagine this happening to anyone....but unfortunately, I know of 2 "big" breeders that it has happened to....
I think ANY female that exhibits this type of behaviour.....should be spayed and never be allowed to conceive again. It also scares me to think that this "type" of behaviour could easily pass through dam to daughters....and so on...


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

I know one thing, it must be horrible to experience. If it had been one of our bitches (thank goodness it is not) I probably would have just never bred her again as I don't think I could ever trust the dog again and I would definitely not want to go through it again. :nono:


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

robinhuerta said:


> It also scares me to think that this "type" of behaviour could easily pass through dam to daughters....and so on...


I've always wondered about that!! That would probably be my main reason to spay the bitch! Scary!!


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## Asche-zu-Staub (Apr 25, 2010)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> I know one thing, it must be horrible to experience. If it had been one of our bitches (thank goodness it is not) I probably would have just never bred her again as I don't think I could ever trust the dog again and I would definitely not want to go through it again. :nono:


i dont think i would be able to look at the bitch the same way ever again...its so sad...i'd be petting it and thinking "cannibal" in the back of my mind...

defiantly agree with you.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Based on some limited exposure to the aspects of breeding GSDs, I can rather firmly state that I will never breed dogs.

Having said that, I have spent a good part of my youth studying zoology at university, and have bred exotic birds as well as fish for over thirty years. Infanticide is actually not uncommon and is seen across most species, including humans. The act of estinguishing life has several motivations, the least of which is food.

In birds & fish, the most common cause is environmental stress. Something in the habitat changes that triggers this undesirable behavior. I would defer to those more knowledgable on our canines.

I can tell you, when I was twenty something, I participated is a study program on infanticide in great apes. In these animals, behaviorists determined the killings had everything to do with genetics and territory. One band of apes kill the young of another in an attempt to weaken their rivals. Within a family group, competing males have been know to kill the offspring of their rivals, which brings the female back into estrous, thereby allowing him to breed and putforth his genes.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Wayne, in your zoological studies, was infanticide on the part of the mother specifically studied?

Males killing offspring, particularly if the offspring of another competing male, is not uncommon regardless of the species for the exact reason you stated... getting the chance to pass on their own genes. Females killing the offspring of other females is also not uncommon for the same reason, particularly in a social group like a pack and if the female with the offspring was not high ranking.

But a mother to kill her own young is a different matter. Extreme environmental stress I could perhaps see. Young being not viable I could see. But an entire litter out of the blue, especially when we're talking about a higher level animal (mammal, not bird or fish) seems not only completely bizarre, but utterly pointless from a pass on the genes evolutionary standpoint.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Especially when you see emaciated moms in shelters, who could honestly get a pass on eating their puppies for food, and there they are...doing everything they can to keep those puppies alive. 

Ava was 25 pounds underweight - at 20# - when they brought her and her puppies into the shelter. 

I wonder if at the Donner pass, there was any parent - child cannibalization. 

Anyway, my point was these dog moms could easily be forgiven for eating their puppies to keep themselves alive but they don't, so...the ones who do, I think are trying to tell us something.


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## Asche-zu-Staub (Apr 25, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> Wayne, in your zoological studies, was infanticide on the part of the mother specifically studied?......mother to kill her own young is a different matter. Extreme environmental stress I could perhaps see. Young being not viable I could see. But an entire litter out of the blue, especially when we're talking about a higher level animal (mammal, not bird or fish) seems not only completely bizarre, but utterly pointless from a pass on the genes evolutionary standpoint.


i second this question/statement.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Keep in mind, I was the grunt associated with this and many other research projects, so I am far from an authority....simply offering my first hand exposure.

At that time, the incidents of recorded infanticide mother to offspring were limited to captive observations (environmental stress), and not recorded in the wild. The symposium for the project was at Cornell University, and was comprised of Dr. Leakey protoches....Jane Goodall, Dian Fossey, and Briute Galdikas. Just to offer perspective on my role...my job was to run to the corner store and get Ms. Fossey cigarettes.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

W.Oliver said:


> Keep in mind, I was the grunt associated with this and many other research projects, so I am far from an authority....simply offering my first hand exposure.
> 
> At that time, the incidents of recorded infanticide mother to offspring were limited to captive observations (environmental stress), and not recorded in the wild. The symposium for the project was at Cornell University, and was comprised of Dr. Leakey protoches....Jane Goodall, Dian Fossey, and Briute Galdikas. Just to offer perspective on my role...my job was to run to the corner store and get Ms. Fossey cigarettes.


I'm sure you did that task really well Wayne :smirk:.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I have heard of it, though only know 1 person who had this happen. It was a c-section and the bitch never completely accepted the pups. She would let them nurse, but at the same time seemed a little afraid of them. A few days after they were left alone with her, she killed them.
I've also seen a few first time mothers who take a while for the "mothering instinct" to kick in. They seem a little uncertain and a bit disturbed by the little squirming creatures.


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

I have read that stress and breeding when too young will cause this. If something is wrong w/ the pup (instincts from the bitch) they will often lay on the pup and smother it. Not a good sign ever when they eat their young, but stress and age can be factors.


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## aviator0218 (Apr 23, 2010)

When I was a kid we had a female siamese cat that my mother breed.She ate her last litter(2 kittens).I think in this case she was too old(the cat)to care for the kittens and she knew it.Maybe in this case natures way of taking care of things?


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

What about a female that takes care and I mean great care of her first several litters to go one and eat and kill the last 3 litters? My parents had a female Dalmation that took wonderful care of her first 6 to 8 litters then killed every litter after the last one she raised to the age to go to new homes. She always had 8 to 13 pups a litter and usually onle one or 2 out would pass the rest living. She was a WONDERFUL dog any other time.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

8 litters, PLUS more after that? Are you serious? That is way, way, way too many litters for a bitch. She'd have had to spend her entire life pregnant or with pups. 

I don't know why a sudden change, other than perhaps mental changes due to old age since she must have been quite old by the time she got to litter 10. I wouldn't be surprised if living in a constant state of extreme hormonal stress and stimulation, plus a good deal of mental and physical stress, didn't cause some sort of change in brain chemistry either. Whether those things played into it or not, I'd bet she was pretty sick and tired of puppies.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I would think the mother was sick, and see what caused it. is there a health test breeders can use or do to prevent this? 

I would be thinking this happens in puppy mills or with bybs.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

Yes they were byb pups they sold them for 50$ apiece because they needes the $ not a lot I could do I was only 10 at the oldest. I did not know and I loved always having pups. But that was almost 15 plus yrs ago and mom and dad no longer breed dogs $ is better and all there dogs are fixed now.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My dad's physical therapist told me that her bitch did this with her first litter. She was a rescue. The next litter she did fine with. Yeah she was a rescue, and bred a second time. 

I mean, I can see delivering a litter and raising the pups for a rescue dog, but why would anyone use her for breeding again, especially if she ate her pups. 

If one of my girls did this, I would not think "Cannible." That is kind of like looking at a bitch or dog that have been bred together who are father and daughter and condemn them for having an incestuous relationship. Dogs are not people and what they do is deeply instictual. But no way would I breed her again.

I think that watching a new mother with her pups really brings that home. She KNOWS exactly what to do. She bites off the cord, and licks the pup vigorously in her attempts to get it going. She will eat all the placentas given the opportunity. They say that you should not leave a new mother alone until the little umbilical cords fall off. 

My girls have been very good with their pups. After Babs' litter, I had her x-rayed and she had one more pup than the x-rays said. I figured she was done. Everything was quiet and I figured it would be ok to go to mom's for dinner. I was gone an hour. 

Now each time she had a puppy, I pulled a small dog bed out, and put all of the pups in it and sat next to the litter box while she turned and gave birth to the new pup. I put this little soft bed up on a shelf before I left. 

One hour later I came back. She had gotten the bed off of the high shelf, put all seven of the puppies in it, delivered another pup, put that in it and that tried to get into it herself. 

The new puppy was not breathing, she did not get it going. All the others were fine. I should have remained there with her. She was an awesome mother, but could not get that one going. Maybe I would not have either. It amazes me that she would have transferred all the pups to that little bed.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Why the heck would anybody breed a bitch 6 to 8 times?!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Let's not turn this thread into an attack on Christen and what her parents did more than 15 years ago, please.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I am clearly no breeder, but how many litters at the most should a female have?


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> Simple answer is the bitch has a screw loose. There is something off in the bitch's head.


When I was growing up I had a step-mother who would have eaten me if she could have gotten away with it! Is that OT?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I brought home a rabbit from the feed store once. One of those un- intentional purchases. Two days later when I was messing with it, it began to have babies. Freaked me out - they said it was a boy. I made a box in her cage for her. Later that evening I called the neighbor's kids as I thought they'd enjoy seeing baby bunnies. :wub: They were very young kids at the time. 

They came over and I lifted the lid off the box to show Momma bunny in all her glory eating the last two of her litter. She'd eaten all of them!  Those kids who are all teenagers now, still tease me about scaring them for life.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Lilie.....my hamsters did the same to me when I was a child...very scary scene for a 7yr old.


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

Six litters is a lot!


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

Ty lhczth. I was asking because Lady was important to me as a child and it has always bothered me about why she went from such a good mommy to a bad one. I rember seeing 101 dalmations and wanting one SO bad. They got me a lil male with a black patch over one eye. His name was Spots but every one called him Bubbie. And wile mom was in collage some one she knew told her about a female that XXX had and asked if we wanted her because we had a young male. They said yes and we wnt and picked her up. She was so shy and skittish and was and still is the most skittish dog I ever met. I named her Lady after lady and the tramp. I have so many wonderful memorys of her. I could not have been more than 11 or 12. When they had her put down and don't really rember why. I probablly don't wanna know. I want to remember her for what she was a good dog and one of my best friends.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Christen explained, water under the bridge, time to move on.

Back to the original topic...
I have heard vets caution many times about this possibility in cases of c-sections. Particularly with maiden bitches. Whelping and raising a litter is completely instinctual to a bitch, and that instinct kicking in is driven by hormones. If the bitch doesn't go through a normal labor with all the hormones flowing, the sights and sounds and smells and actions that kick her brain into "mom gear" and tell her what to do, I could see this being a real concern. If she just gets knocked out and wakes up with a bunch of little leaches attached to her nipples, without the benefit of the hormones and the birthing experience kicking in the mothering instincts, I could see this sort of thing happening and in that case wouldn't automatically assume the bitch had a screw loose. Especially if a maiden bitch who had never experienced motherhood before. 

A couple of the cases of this I have heard of (and none were first hand) occurred with bitches who were imported in whelp. They flew across the world halfway through pregnancy, found themselves in a completely strange place with completely strange people (who probably didn't even speak the language they were used to), and the stress of that could certainly be a contributing factor. I've known other cases of bitches imported in whelp aborting their litters as well, again no doubt due to the stress.

But I would still say that under normal circumstances, normal pregnancy, normaly whelping, for a bitch to do this indicates a loose screw somewhere.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

I have another take on this. I believe that sometimes mothers kill and or eat their pups because they are trying to clean them. I have known of several pup eaters and all of them were over cleaners with their offspring. They would start cleaning the umbilical area so vigorously they would eventually lick a wound into the puppy. They then try to clean the wound and cause even more of a wound. They would eventually do this until they consumed the puppy.

If the pups are taken from the bitch for the first few days, while the umbilical cord heals and then returned to her, she doesn't harm the pups, in most cases. 

I think there is still a genetic problem here but I don't think the mother is crazy or evil, in fact quite the opposite, I think they are mothers that are so good that they are bad.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Sort of like canine mother OCD.. hummmm. I've had a couple bitches who were a bit overzealous in the cleaning of the umbilical cord and had to be watched for the first few hours so they didn't worry it too much. But once it dried a few hours after birth they were fine and they never caused any damage and pups never had to be removed for safety from overcleaning. But I could see it as a definite possibility if the female got overly obsessive about it. 

Though would it be an entire litter though? Seems like in an OCD case the bitch would keep working on whichever pup caught her eye first, and by the time that one was gone enough time would have passed for the others to be safe. A lot of these incidents seem to happen quick, a whole litter gone in a matter of hours and it doesn't seem like that would be enough time for her to essentially lick and nibble up a whole litter of pups. But maybe it would.

Very interesting theory and probably very much the case at times.


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