# Your thoughts on Blue Wilderness LB Puppy



## Gunny (Jun 15, 2016)

We are getting our new girl in Oct, been lookin for a good puppy kibble that doesn't promote fast growth. In keeping calcium and phos levels as low as possible. From my research, this fits the bill, we feed our other girl (adult) Blue Wilderness Chicken and she did really well

Have you used this and I would like your input......:grin2:

I realize the varied brands and formulas available to the consumer, just lookin for input of personal experience.

Thanks...this is a great website.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

I'm not a fan of Blue Buffalo. They used to be good, but slowly over the years their quality has gone down hill. Here's the large breed puppy wilderness:

Chewy.com Blue Buffalo Wilderness Large Breed Puppy 24lb $47.99 -

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Tapioca Starch, Peas, Turkey Meal, Pea Protein, Tomato Pomace (Source of Lycopene), Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Dried Egg, Flaxseed (Source of Omega 3 and 6 Fatty Acids), Natural Flavor, Potatoes, Fish Oil (Source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid and Ara-Arachidonic Acid), Salt, Potassium Chloride, Alfalfa Meal, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Dl-Methionine, Potato Starch, Calcium Carbonate, Caramel, Mixed Tocopherols (A Natural Preservative), Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, L-Carnitine, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Sulfate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Oil of Rosemary, L-Lysine, Parsley, Kelp, Blueberries, Cranberries, Apples, Spinach, Blackberries, Pomegranate, Pumpkin, Barley Grass, Turmeric, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Copper Sulfate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Nicotinic Acid (Vitamin B3), Taurine, Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Biotin (Vitamin B7), Manganese Sulfate, Vitamin A Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Beta Carotene, Dried Yeast, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.

Lots of synthetic ingredients, they have to add plant protein (pea protein), flax is a GMO ingredient that goes rancid very very easily.

Plus Blue Buffalo has had SEVERAL recalls of products. Including 2 in a 6 month period! Nov 2015 and May 2016

For a few bucks more, I can get Acana all life stages poultry. Orijen pets (the maker of Acana) has never had a recall, has very strict quality control of their ingredients, and makes a much much better food. I checked the guaranteed analysis and the calcium/phos ratio is 1.3:1 so in the safe range for large breed puppies too

Acana Heretige Free Run Poultry - $55.99 25lbs

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Giblets (Liver, Heart, Gizzard), Chicken Meal, Whole Green Peas, Red Lentils, Pinto Beans, Deboned Turkey, Catfish Meal, Chicken Fat, Chickpeas, Green Lentils, Whole Yellow Peas, Sun-Cured Alfalfa, Chicken Cartilage, Whole Egg, Herring Oil, Natural Chicken Flavor, Turkey Cartilage, Dried Kelp, Whole Pumpkin, Whole Butternut Squash, Kale, Spinach, Mustard Greens, Collard Greens, Turnip Greens, Carrots, Apples, Pears, Freeze-Dried Chicken Liver, Freeze-Dried Turkey Liver, Zinc Proteinate, Mixed Tocopherols (Preservative), Chicory Root, Turmeric, Sarsaparilla Root, Althea Root, Rose Hips, Juniper Berries, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Animalis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product.

Very few unnatural ingredients, almost all the vitamins and minerals come from whole food. Lots of meat, including organs, interesting to note that the chicken is "free run". A much nicer botanical blend.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Also wanted to add that blue uses an unnamed fish oil. No clue what species it's from. Where as acana uses herring oil, which is high in omega 3s and a safe option in regards to heavy metal poisoning concerns. 

There are other brands out there that are great too. Just depends on your budget and geographical region.

Oh and the maker of acana is champion pets* origin is another brand they offer. Typo in my first post lol


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## Zen327 (Jul 21, 2016)

I did a lot of reading about different foods, and although RAW would be the best choice, I'm using Timberwolf Wilderness Legends right now. (can't post a link)
Its a pretty healthy mix of food (better than what I eat) and it seems to have relative low levels in Cal and Pho. 
He is growing up pretty quick tho, so I dont know how well it'll do if you're trying to prevent fast growth.
But, he responds great to the food, always full of energy and has excellent bowel movements. 
Good luck!


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

https://www.chewy.com/fromm-gold-ho...mm&utm_term=&gclid=CJ3__qvdhc4CFUEkhgod31YCLg


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## Zen327 (Jul 21, 2016)

"FROMM"

Why this particular brand? To me the long list of grains would deter me from this food...


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Zen327 said:


> "FROMM"
> 
> Why this particular brand? To me the long list of grains would deter me from this food...


Doesn't seem that long to me...

Duck, Chicken Meal, Chicken, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Brown Rice, Menhaden Fish Meal, Lamb, Potatoes, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Whole Egg, Chicken Fat, Salmon Oil, Cheese, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Alfalfa Meal, Carrots, Lettuce, Celery, Chicken Cartilage, Calcium Sulfate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dl-Methionine, L-Tryptophan, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics.


I think a lot of folks also appreciate their history and reputation as a business.


I would also look into what offerings Victor has for lb puppies...


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## Zen327 (Jul 21, 2016)

Dotbat215 said:


> Doesn't seem that long to me...
> 
> Duck, Chicken Meal, Chicken, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Brown Rice, Menhaden Fish Meal, Lamb, Potatoes, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Whole Egg, Chicken Fat, Salmon Oil, Cheese, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Alfalfa Meal, Carrots, Lettuce, Celery, Chicken Cartilage, Calcium Sulfate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dl-Methionine, L-Tryptophan, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics.
> 
> ...


The 4th 5th and 6th ingredients being grains, I would assume account for a lot of the overall make up of the kibble. Its been my understanding grains are not suggested for GSD, and they do better on a higher protein based diet correct?
Due to this reasoning, I have been feeding him T.W.O..... 
"Elk,Salmon,SprayDriedSalmon,SweetPotatoes,Herring,SalmonOil,Pumpkin,GreenPeas,Flaxseed,SunflowerOil,DriedOrganic Kelp, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, Herring Oil, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Red Delicious Apples, Blueberries, Blackberries, Cranberries, Dried Figs, Thyme, Ground Cinnamon, Sunflower Seeds, Whole Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Tomatoes Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Minerals: [Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Calcium Pantothenate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins: [Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin (A Source Of Vitamin B3), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin (A Source Of Vitamin B2), Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (A Source Of Vitamin B6), Thiamine Hydrochloride (A Source Of Vitamin B1), Biotin (A Source Of Vitamin B7), Citric Acid (A Source Of Vitamin C), Mixed Tocopherols (A Source Of Vitamin E and A Natural Preservative)], Prebiotics: [Chicory Root (Inulin)], Probiotics: [Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product], Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Beta-Carotene, Fructooligosaccharides, Taurine, L-Carnitine, DL-Methionine, Rosemary Extract (A Natural Preservative)"


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Zen327 said:


> The 4th 5th and 6th ingredients being grains, I would assume account for a lot of the overall make up of the kibble. Its been my understanding grains are not suggested for GSD, and they do better on a higher protein based diet correct?
> Due to this reasoning, I have been feeding him T.W.O.....
> "Elk,Salmon,SprayDriedSalmon,SweetPotatoes,Herring,SalmonOil,Pumpkin,GreenPeas,Flaxseed,SunflowerOil,DriedOrganic Kelp, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, Herring Oil, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Red Delicious Apples, Blueberries, Blackberries, Cranberries, Dried Figs, Thyme, Ground Cinnamon, Sunflower Seeds, Whole Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Tomatoes Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Minerals: [Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Calcium Pantothenate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins: [Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin (A Source Of Vitamin B3), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin (A Source Of Vitamin B2), Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (A Source Of Vitamin B6), Thiamine Hydrochloride (A Source Of Vitamin B1), Biotin (A Source Of Vitamin B7), Citric Acid (A Source Of Vitamin C), Mixed Tocopherols (A Source Of Vitamin E and A Natural Preservative)], Prebiotics: [Chicory Root (Inulin)], Probiotics: [Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product], Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Beta-Carotene, Fructooligosaccharides, Taurine, L-Carnitine, DL-Methionine, Rosemary Extract (A Natural Preservative)"


The grains in fromm are no worse then the sweet potatos in the TWO. Both are carby starches. Actually I'd venture to say the Fromm actually contains more meat then the Timber wolf organics as they use a meal as the second ingredient. It also does have more meat sources listed. 

The type of grain matters. Sweet potatos, oats, brown rice, and barley all have similar numbers on the glycemic index. Unless your dog has a (rare) condition that makes it extremely sensitive to lectins in grains or an actual allergy to them there is no reason nutritionally to pick a sweet potato/white potato based grain free formula over a grain based one - as long as it is a formula with healthy grains.

Just because fromm has 3 carb sources listed doesnt mean it has more either. When you look at the macros there isnt much difference: The difference in protein is not that great between these diets TWO is 26% and the from is 24% fat is 16% and 14%. both are a moderate protein diet with high carb content. 

But most dogs do well on that type of diet! They are many thousands of years removed from wolves. They have more copies of the AMY2B gene and produce pancreatic amylase. They evolved right along side us during the agricultural revolution after all. 

A lot of it is dog food company hype. It's in vogue right now to be grain free. A lot of company's just replace their carby grains with non grain carbs. The sweet potatos, white potatos, peas, lentils etc. Then they can charge significantly more for a food that basically has the same nutritional macros.

That said I do feed my dogs grain free, however we do a low carb version of grain free. I think there are a lot of benefits in that. The dogs stay leaner, keeps the blood sugar level, fantastic mink like coats with a high gloss finish. Oh yeahhh. 

The trick is finding what works for your dog without letting the marketing firms pull the wool over your eyes.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

I'd feed the puppy whatever the breeder has fed for a month or so then transition to Annamaet Encore. There aren't a lot of all life stages kibbles appropriate for gsd puppies. If I ever get another puppy I won't feed it puppy food past 4 months old. I just met a great vet yesterday and that is what suggested, protein around 25% and wholesome grains if the puppy can tolerate them. I fed my pup a large breed puppy food until 8 months old and she grew too fast.


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## Zen327 (Jul 21, 2016)

Voodoo Lamb, awesome input. Thank you! So far my pup has seemed very happy with TWO, and has a great coat. I definitely hear you on the whole "vogue" aspect of it all and getting caught up in the marketing can be done all too easy. Seems you have done the research behind the actual science behind it all. That being said, what are you feeding your dog if you dont mind me asking?


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## Zen327 (Jul 21, 2016)

Ah, I see Acana is the route you go.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

I don't know how it will work for a puppy but in the future you might want to check this out...

Grain and Potato Free Dog Food, Whitefish | Sport Dog Food



> Ingredients:
> 
> Whitesh Meal, Yams, Freeze Dried Sweet Potato, Freeze Dried Green Lipped Sea Mussel, Freeze Dried Pumpkin, Freeze Dried Red Clover Sprouts, Freeze Dried Blueberries, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Squash, Kale, Freeze Dried Papaya, Inulin, Cranberries, Parsley, Probiotics (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product Dehydrated), Kelp, Artichokes, Salmon Oil, Herring Oil, Vitamins (DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin), Minerals (Calcium Pantothenate, Selenium, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acids Chelate, Manganese Amino Acids Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acids Chelate


I've been eyeing it...the line seems to be good for the price and I like the lack of peas.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Zen327 said:


> Voodoo Lamb, awesome input. Thank you! So far my pup has seemed very happy with TWO, and has a great coat. I definitely hear you on the whole "vogue" aspect of it all and getting caught up in the marketing can be done all too easy. Seems you have done the research behind the actual science behind it all. That being said, what are you feeding your dog if you dont mind me asking?


I 've actually never fed Acana. I do sometimes use orijen which is made by the same company with the same quality control though. I mentioned it on this thread as it is at a similar price point to the food the OP has chosen. 

Personally I feed my guy's 1/2 raw or home cooked closer to BARF style, and a commercial food ziwi peak. I sometimes pick up small bags of orijen and some of the better freeze dried formulas like K9 natural, Stella and chewies, primal, honest kitchen, etc to use in puzzle toys and for variety. They get 2 meals a day, preferably one out of a puzzle toy, and they get a daily chew. 

The ziwipeak is IMO one of the best commercial foods out there. Only the beef is appropriate for large breed puppies but all there stuff is great. It is based on a whole prey raw diet. Here are the ingredients: 
Lamb - Meat (Includes Up to 3% Finely Ground Bone), Lamb - Liver, Lung, Tripe, Heart and Kidney, New Zealand Green-Lipped Mussel, Lecithin, Chicory Inulin, Dried Kelp, Parsley, Naturally Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E), Vitamins & Minerals

Great ingredient list but the quality is insurmountable. Ziwi has NEVER had a recall. They frequently test their batches, none of their ingredients comes from china. All sourced from N. America, europe, Australia and New Zealand, and the best part is all of their meat is hormone, antibiotic free, and grass fed. Plus goes through NZ'S stringent inspection process. 

It's not a kibble it's a dried raw food jerky. Air dried at a low enough temperature to keep the enzymes and nutrients intact. 

It's a bit pricey though. If I fed it exclusively it would be like $175.00 per month for my smaller sized male gsd. However I can't do full grass fed home prepared raw any cheaper either. So it's in that range. But sometimes you can't beat convenience. 

The raw meals vary by what is in season, on sale, and on hand. My number one rule with dog food is: variety!!! 

Last night the boys had grass fed chuck eye chunks, green tripe, a hand full of quail eggs, some raw goats milk, some diced strawberries from my garden, grated zucchini left over from when I baked zucchini bread, some cilantro left over from when I made Salsa that was starting to wilt in the fridge, and a few scoops of some of the supplements I use - krill oil, green super food, MUSH, and gelatin. Oh and the young one had some sweet potato fries, because he had a really active day yesterday and I needed to up his calories for the day but didn't thaw out enough meat. So I sacrificed some of my own dinner. Don't worry though. I stole some of my boyfriend's sweet potato fries to make up the difference


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## Zen327 (Jul 21, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> But sometimes you can't beat convenience.


Haha isn't that the truth. Thats the hardest part about doing the cooking at home, I barely cook for myself! My dog already eats way better than I do the way it is... Now if I could just convince him of my diet of pizza and whiskey we'd be set!

Sounds like you've got a pretty good menu for those guys tho. Maybe I'll look into trying some of those other brands as well, just to mix it up!


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