# Code Enforcement Almost Made It Over MY Fence...



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

When I got home today I had a notice on my door that I'm in violation of not getting a permit to put up a shed. That I'll deal with and get fixed, but my bigger problem is how this guy managed to see this. I recently got a 6 ft fence(got permit and all). I'm assuming at this point that he was doing a final inspection on that today. I have 3 gates and all have locks with keys. I was slightly confused as to how this guy did what he did, so I went to my neighbor across the way and asked him. Apparently this code enforcement guy pulled up in a unmarked vehicle and attempted to enter my property, when he couldn't he decided that he would go over the fence. There was NO need for him to enter the yard, the full perimeter can be walked on the outside of the fence. When my neighbor seen a strange man trying to get over my fence he approached him and asked him what he was doing and the code enforcement guy got an attitude with him and asked him who he was, etc. I asked my neighbor if my dogs barked at all while they were in front of the house(about 5 ft from the window) and he said not a peep from any of them. What if my dogs were outside and this guy got bit? Would have I been held responsible for his stupidity? Besides the fact that there is a dog pen in the yard, this guy really wouldn't have known there was dogs, but does that give him the right to enter the property? I really want to say something to the effect that this guy needs to be more careful in the future, he can get seriously hurt. Not to mention someone can be held liable for his mistake. I don't want to get them any more mad at me, but I'm highly upset at what happened. What if I did leave my dogs outside during the day? The two GSD's do not bark unless necessary. I don't know if they would go for someone coming over a fence and I don't want to find out. Should I say something or keep quiet? I'm still very upset and its probably a good thing they were closed when I got home, by tomorrow I will be much calmer. All I keep thinking is my dog bites them, dog is deemed dangerous, dog is put to sleep


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I would at least call and find out what the rules are governing this. It's not like they can't just come back with you at home and address it, like your gonna tear it down, hide it, and then put it back up later if he doesn't deal with it at that exact moment.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Wow! You have a busy beaver of an inspector in your area. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't trying to augment his government wages with a bit of pilfering. No way should he try to jump a fence. 

I mean, the cops have to have enough sufficient evidence to get a warrant to go into your property to look for drugs or whatever they have listed on the warrant. Why would some building inspector dude be able to climb over your fence. I agree that is very dangerous, and if I was on the jury after your dog took a chunk out of the guy's leg, I would exhonerate the dog and give it a medal. But then, I am a member of a dog-forum, and would probably be struck from any jury in a case like that. 

I probably would say something to someone. If the guy fell off of your fence and broke his arm, would you be liable for putting up a shed so he felt he needed to look for it by climbing over a fence? Would he get workman's comp for that? Would the munincipality have to pay for his lost time and medical expenses? 

How bazaar!


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## ODINsFREKI (Jul 30, 2013)

That's criminal trespass in any State. You can have your neighbor fill out an affidavit of fact that you can get online or from a third party debt collector (attorney) and have him serve it to the County Sheriff. The local police will not act on it. The Sheriff must. It will be notarized properly and becomes a legal document with weight. They must act on an affidavit, they can choose to act on a complaint.

Considering the state you live in, It wouldn't surprise me if you would be liable for a criminal's injury while trespassing on your private property. 

Is your fence posted? PRIVATE PROPERTY FOR PRIVATE USE is a very clear message that is common law. 

You could treat your neighbor to lunch for being a good guard while you were gone and stop in and talk to the Sheriff. He or she has the power to stop your out of control policy enforcement thug.

Out here that guy would be classified as a training accident.

Good luck!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

And the shed is not in the yard, its at the back of the property behind the fence which is accessible by walking around. There is about 10 feet from all of my property lines to the fence. I walk it to clear weeds with no problems. If my neighbor didn't stop him, I think he was going to go over it. I think that they have to much time on their hands.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Nigel said:


> I would at least call and find out what the rules are governing this. It's not like they can't just come back with you at home and address it, like your gonna tear it down, hide it, and then put it back up later if he doesn't deal with it at that exact moment.


Exactly. And it doesn't have a concrete foundation, I can move it if I wanted to.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ODINsFREKI said:


> That's criminal trespass in any State. You can have your neighbor fill out an affidavit of fact that you can get online or from a third party debt collector (attorney) and have him serve it to the County Sheriff. The local police will not act on it. The Sheriff must. It will be notarized properly and becomes a legal document with weight. They must act on an affidavit, they can choose to act on a complaint.
> 
> Considering the state you live in, It wouldn't surprise me if you would be liable for a criminal's injury while trespassing on your private property.
> 
> ...



When the code enforcement guy got snippy with my neighbor, my neighbor asked him something to the effect of wouldn't you appreciate a neighbor like me coming to you if someone was going over your fence? The code enforcement guy did stop by my neighbor to apologize and told him that he was having a rough day. I was thinking that his day could have a lot rougher if the dogs were out:crazy:


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## ODINsFREKI (Jul 30, 2013)

llombardo said:


> When the code enforcement guy got snippy with my neighbor, my neighbor asked him something to the effect of wouldn't you appreciate a neighbor like me coming to you if someone was going over your fence? The code enforcement guy did stop by my neighbor to apologize and told him that he was having a rough day. I was thinking that his day could have a lot rougher if the dogs were out:crazy:


His remorse shows guilt. He knows he was wrong. I find it unacceptable behavior by a public servant but you do what you want with it. 

Either way, you owe your neighbor a soda or beer!


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I would call 911 and report tresspassing. Govt has to follow their own laws.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

volcano said:


> I would call 911 and report tresspassing. Govt has to follow their own laws.


Not 911, as they tend to frown on calling for something that is not an emergency (as this event happened a day or so ago), but I would definitely call the town offices and call the police department. 

Our Code Enforcement Officer lost all of our official building plans, and I thought I was steamed then.... I can't imagine how mad I would be if she tried to pull something like that! They do answer to higher-ups, I would definitely call.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Does the guy have a supervisor? I would speak to them. If that does no good, what type of town do you live in? mayor? selectman? Speak to them.

I would also put No Trespassing signs up asap..No Trespassing means just that NO Trespassing


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## Okin (Feb 27, 2013)

Check you fence for any damage he might have caused trying to scale it also.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Just called the sheriff and it is against the law. I can file a complaint with them and with the guys supervisor. Sheriff also said he would be at fault if he got bit. If I make a complaint they can make my life miserable and they probably will. I know I have to but it scares me


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Maybe you could call the supervisor and tell him/her 'Hey I don't want to cause you guys trouble or make a big deal over this but I'm concerned about your inspector trying to climb over my fence into my backyard. He could have got hurt or one of my dogs could have been out and I thought you may want to know since that could be a liability for your department.'

I've found in situations like this, if you come at it from an attitude of wanting to give a supervisor a heads up on a potential issue with an employee, without threatening them, they often read between the lines and appreciate knowing what is going on.


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## kjdreyer (Feb 7, 2013)

Maybe you could still contact the guy's supervisor with an "informal" complaint - making it clear you're fully aware you could make a formal complaint, but that you'd rather not go that route. That would let the supervisor know his employee is out of line, but you could be less worried about retaliation. What a messed up world we're in, so many of us are hesitant to call out bad behavior because we're afraid the perpetrator will be back to poison or dogs or something. Depressing. But anyway, good luck, and I'm glad you found out he was in the wrong. And your neighbor is a gem!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

llombardo said:


> Exactly. And it doesn't have a concrete foundation, I can move it if I wanted to.



You need to call the police and see if that is criminal trespass. Then call the code enforcement office and speak to a super.

1) (at least in PA) if the shed is moveable then you do not need a permit.
2) As far as I know, a code enforcement officer can not illegally enter your property.

Sometimes these CEO's take their job a bit to seriously.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

We live in crazy times.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Make sure before you file complaints, that you read carefully the by-laws and permit itself, it may contain a clause whereby the inspector has the right to have full access to the fence until such time as it is passed. Municipal politics can be a bit of a cowboy show or it can be incredibly stringent, we were reviewing a liquor policy last night for a community center as a point of reference for one we're writing, the darn thing was longer than most federal laws ROFL!
However, given what the inspector did, you might get a bit of leniency on the permit for the shed. The issue is, at least here, inspectors are to report on anything they visually see which may be a code violation or work done without a permit. For example if while inspecting your fence, he saw that you replaced your windows and used smaller than previous and bricked in the difference, that's an infraction if no permit is on file. They can issue a stop work order for anything on the property and require an inspection of the whole property. So you are correct, they can make your life heck.  Good luck though, it sounds like you have good communication now with the department head.


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

That is trespassing and could be reported to the police if you chose. I would at least let his supervisor know what he did.

When I was living with my parents I called 911 to report a strange man wandering the property. The state police responded and the man was cuffed and placed in the back of the cruiser. Turns out that the man was our town tax collector and was reassessing properties during the week when nobody was home. He wanted to make sure that "people didn't put up buildings and not report them for tax purposes." My parents were asked if they wished to press charges, as were the other neighbors who's property he inspected. We didn't face any repercussions that I remember, but it's hard to play victim when you have a terrified 13 year old girl who is alone in a house that you're prowling around.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

So I called to see what I need to do to remedy the situation and she gave me my options, which I'm going to do. I brought up the fact that he was hanging over my fence and I thought that was not right. She informed me that they have more authority then I thought. I told her not according to the sheriff. She didn't have an answer for that.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm not saying inspectors should scale fences to check for code violations.

With our utilities, if you read the fine print you must provide clear access for the meter readers to access your meter, so in our old house, it was in our back yard, once the dogs were out, but the guy could read it from over my neighbors fence and it was no issue, but if I fenced in my entire yard here and the meter reader couldn't access my meter because of the dogs and couldn't find a place to leave a notice, or I don't get the notice, they can discontinue my services. Fine print


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Interesting.

I wouldn't worry too much about backlash.

If it's not too onerous to make the fixes they want I would do them to keep 'em quiet, put up no trespassing signs and 'dog in yard' signs if you haven't already and it'll probably blow over.




llombardo said:


> So I called to see what I need to do to remedy the situation and she gave me my options, which I'm going to do. I brought up the fact that he was hanging over my fence and I thought that was not right. She informed me that they have more authority then I thought. I told her not according to the sheriff. She didn't have an answer for that.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ozzymama said:


> I'm not saying inspectors should scale fences to check for code violations.
> 
> With our utilities, if you read the fine print you must provide clear access for the meter readers to access your meter, so in our old house, it was in our back yard, once the dogs were out, but the guy could read it from over my neighbors fence and it was no issue, but if I fenced in my entire yard here and the meter reader couldn't access my meter because of the dogs and couldn't find a place to leave a notice, or I don't get the notice, they can discontinue my services. Fine print


The original plan for my fence actually had one of the meters in the yard. I moved the fence back so every utility has access. I don't have a problem with utility companies doing their job and I wanted to make it easier and safe for them


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

llombardo said:


> She informed me that they have more authority then I thought. I told her not according to the sheriff. She didn't have an answer for that.


Pish posh. They have basically zero. Many of them think they do, however.... in every town I've lived in, the CEO's seem to have a God complex.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

llombardo said:


> Just called the sheriff and it is against the law. I can file a complaint with them and with the guys supervisor. Sheriff also said he would be at fault if he got bit. If I make a complaint they can make my life miserable and they probably will. I know I have to but it scares me


making a complaint would be in your best interest, then there would be something on file, that way if this inspector decides to jump the fence again, and your dogs are out, then its on record, over here the inspectors are not allowed to walk in the back yard, unless they have permission from the home owner


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## ODINsFREKI (Jul 30, 2013)

llombardo said:


> So I called to see what I need to do to remedy the situation and she gave me my options, which I'm going to do. I brought up the fact that he was hanging over my fence and I thought that was not right. She informed me that they have more authority then I thought. I told her not according to the sheriff. She didn't have an answer for that.



Well, here is where a legal document provided by the witness in the form of an affidavit of fact comes in. Once it's properly notarized, the Sheriff MUST act on it. 

If the enforcement monkeys make your life ****, you can sue the **** out of them and have them removed from public service. Ever yank a bond? It creates all sorts of problems.

I wont even get into their oath of office and their bonds. I'm sure a municipality that operates like that wouldn't have them.

Create a paper trail and document it. You are under the radar now after you called the supervisor. If you would have dealt directly with the Sheriff, your name would have been irrelevant. The Sheriff will protect you. Do not deal with the local cops. It's against their interest and pensions.

Authority comes from the people not the government. It's your consent that allows them to operate. Tacit procuration allows monkeys to get away with this stuff. Want to really freak them out? Ask to see their bonds and oaths. 

Good luck.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I just went home for lunch and my neighbor said they were there again at 11:00. This time it was a woman. I've been on hold for a half hour waiting for them.


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## hchorney1 (Mar 5, 2012)

The tangled politics in this area kill me! Good luck on negotiating with them!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

So the supervisor is trying to find out why the guy was there yesterday. It turns out that the woman there today was there for the final inspection on the fence. She says she will look into it and call me in the morning. There was no valid reason for him to be there at this point. I can't wait to see what they come up with.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Did Mr. Code-Enforcer show credentials? 

Your neighbor MAY have interrupted a smooth-talking burglar. Fence scaling code enforcers just sound so bazaar to me.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

The town I live in, well the people in office (selectman type govt), think they are above and beyond the law..And they "can" make life difficult for someone.

I don't know that I've had anyone jumping my fence, but then again I really have no neighbors that would even see something like that happening. 

It will be interesting to see how yours develops whether the guy was on the up and up or what!

Not sure I'd press charges, but I would have it documented and file a complaint..What happened to calling an owner before just 'showing' up..


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

This is all interesting. I need to ask DH's cousins wife how she does inspections. I'm pretty sure they are by appointment.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> Did Mr. Code-Enforcer show credentials?
> 
> Your neighbor MAY have interrupted a smooth-talking burglar. Fence scaling code enforcers just sound so bazaar to me.


Yes he did show his badge and they do have the violation listed that he wrote, but the supervisor is not aware of a reason he would or should have been there.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Its all odd to me. The supervisor asked if I applied for the permit and then decided not to get it..nope that never happened. The only thing that I decided not to do was the garage and that is because placement didn't work for the county. This gave the supervisor an opening to say well maybe that is why he was there. My response was, if he came to see if I had a garage put up without a permit, I wouldn't be able to hide that, it would be seen from outside the fence. Even that would not give him the right to stand on my fence, hang on it, etc to see inside the yard. Did he think I built a garage for a go kart? Seriously, I can't wait to see what the supervisor comes up with.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Oh and when I go to get the permit and they have to come out, it will be noted I have a dog and the gates are locked, so they have to call me and I will have to know when they are coming, pretty much like it should probably be anyone. I still can't believe that not one of my dogs made a peep, this guy had no clue a dog or dogs were anywhere near him. It is a huge safety concern and the supervisor agrees with that.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

ok I missed it, he wrote you up for a violation?? Oh yeah, they are probably trying to figure out how to get outta this one


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## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

When I had our shed built I think they said the "lee-way"(I think that's what they called it!)was 10 feet from the back of property and 5 feet down the sides I think it was. I wondered why they would need leeway up between my fence and neighbors! We built well within these guidelines, easier to keep mowed anyway, but have to say most everyone else around here sheds are up against the fences, back of yard or side! Ours is considered moveable too, but would be a real pain! Oh and the wildfires did get a bunch of those sheds on the back fences, but mine did survive!


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Jax08 said:


> This is all interesting. I need to ask DH's cousins wife how she does inspections. I'm pretty sure they are by appointment.


Outside though?

We've had 3 inspections, the first was when we upgraded the heating and did a bunch of electrical, that was an appointment a 8-12 or 12-4 thing LOL and the 2 outdoor inspections when we tore down a shed because we had to re-do electrical and remove the wood stove and when we fenced between the garage and town fence - that one had to go to council for a vote because we wanted to put the fence at the property line and the city owns the fence for the cemetery. The latter 2 were done without appointments whenever they were in the area. Same as when I called about the stones leaning on the cemetery fence, causing it to lean, they just fixed it and walked over and told me, heck Aecon didn't call when they ran the line for my gas meter, they just showed up, told me what week... I got a clue when they started drilling and it was winter, so to tie into the line the jack hammers weren't working through the concrete sidewalk so they beat the heck out of it with a back hoe.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Maybe a neighbor or "concerned citizen" called about the shed you didn't have a permit for. You never know what people will get a bee in their bonnet over when someone can do something and they cannot.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ozzymama said:


> Maybe a neighbor or "concerned citizen" called about the shed you didn't have a permit for. You never know what people will get a bee in their bonnet over when someone can do something and they cannot.


This was a thought too. But the neighbors are overjoyed at what I have done with the house as far as improvements. My one neighbor put up the shed up for me.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

readaboutdogs said:


> When I had our shed built I think they said the "lee-way"(I think that's what they called it!)was 10 feet from the back of property and 5 feet down the sides I think it was. I wondered why they would need leeway up between my fence and neighbors! We built well within these guidelines, easier to keep mowed anyway, but have to say most everyone else around here sheds are up against the fences, back of yard or side! Ours is considered moveable too, but would be a real pain! Oh and the wildfires did get a bunch of those sheds on the back fences, but mine did survive!


Yep there are guidelines for a shed, but they also say a portable shed doesn't need a permit. I followed all guidelines...30 feet from street line and at least 10 ft from other side and 3 ft from the back. I didn't put a concrete slab down on mine and it can be moved, I think that is portable, they think since you can walk into it, it requires a permit. Mine is not in the yard, its on the other side of the fence at the back of the property. You have to get a permit to get a satellite dish also, that is crazy.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

I would address it. I would call city hall and inquire about code enforcement being on private property. I wouldn't give them names or anything but I would find out whether this guy was within his rights to enter your property OVER your fence and not through an unlocked gate. If you have burried lines running through your property, you are required to grant officials access to your backyard. If your gates are locked and they cannot gain access, I think then they are required to notify you that they need access. At least thats how I understand it around here.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Yep there are guidelines for a shed, but they also say a portable shed doesn't need a permit. I followed all guidelines...30 feet from street line and at least 10 ft from other side and 3 ft from the back. I didn't put a concrete slab down on mine and it can be moved, I think that is portable, they think since you can walk into it, it requires a permit. Mine is not in the yard, its on the other side of the fence at the back of the property. You have to get a permit to get a satellite dish also, that is crazy.


I'd like them to show me a shed you cannot walk into. If there is such a thing, what good would it be?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

llombardo - is this a premade shed? Or is it a shed that was built in place? Is it afixed to the ground in any way that would make it permanent? You make them show the guidelines on what makes a shed portable or permanent. If it's a premade shed still sitting on a skid and not affixed to the ground...then it's portable.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

They are now saying that the inspector was there based on previous permits that were applied for but not completed by previous owner. Little did they know that I am still in contact with said person. Called him and he did not apply for anything that wasn't finished and inspected before house was sold. I let them know this and now they have brought it from a violation to a warning and I have no fines, but still have to get a permit for existing work that was done. It turns out the inspector in question also owns a GSD


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Things may have changed here, but it use to be a shed 12'x12' and under did not require a permit. CE is pretty week around here anyways.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

In my area, I 'think' that's also how it is, certain size and under, not permanent doesn't require a permit..

I have some BIG sheds, two that are 12 x 20.. I never pulled permits for them because they are not permanent They can be moved if I wanna pay someone to do it I do get taxed on them.

Basically any shed can be moved, the prebuilt ones are probably easier, but I've had ones moved that my husband built years ago , from one residence to another..


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