# Oh the adolescent issues...help!



## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Kaiser is 9 months (and 1 week, but who's counting) and officially hit adolescence about 3ish weeks ago. There are a few issues that have developed that I am looking for recommendations with.

First of all, he talks back. Ok, NOT a big deal in the house when I can just ignore him; however, if we are working on OB say, during a walk, and he doesn't feel like cooperating, he will start whining and his sassy high pitched barking. This leads into issue number two: barking and whining at other people and dogs. I will try to list everything I do in response to these issues:

If we are doing OB and he sasses me, I either ignore him (if its not 6am and people will find his noise making annoying) or walk him in the direction OPPOSITE of where he wants to go. When I take him in the opposite direction, he of course sasses and talks back even more, but he eventually figures out that he won't get to go where he wants unless he behaves politely. This sometimes takes 5-10 tries, where we turn around and walk away until he settles down, then turn back in the direction we were initially headed, and continue on our way unless he acts up again. Then we turn around and start the process all over again. 

He also has started lunging at people. Not out of aggression but rather out of sheer excitement. He loves people. Young, old, whatever. I try to tell them to let me get him into a sit-stay until he settles down, but they don't always listen (in which case I try to take him the other direction). This also takes quite a few tries to get his attention redirected to me. At some point, he will sit his butt down and give me great focus, but the minute I release him he gets super excited and starts jumping again. I realize he is still all puppy, but this behavior was never allowed before so I'm getting frustrated that he has started it now.

Another issue that I expected but was still sad to see develop is his reaction to other un-neutered male dogs. Generally he is just fine, unless they try to mount him or challenge him. He is really not a dominant dog per say (never any posturing, bullying, throat holding, etc) but with other dominant dogs I think he feels he needs to stand his ground. This is NOT ok with me, so I always redirect (and usually yell at the other owner to control their dog) and take him out of the situation immediately. 

He has also started a bit of resource guarding. When he plays and feels like another dog is encroaching on his ball/frisbee/whatever, he will growl and snap. NOT ok. The toy is removed and usually Kaiser is also.

With females, he has found one pretty girl who he adores. I mean REALLY adores. All he wants to do is mount her. I always redirect (he will catch me out of the corner of his eye and stop) but if he persists I will take him away from her. When THAT happens, the attitude-y whining and sassy barks will start. These two really do adore each other though. She won't listen to her owner until she comes over to say hello, and when Kaiser knows she's somewhere nearby he completely ignores me as well. Puppy love is frustrating, lol. Oh, he hasn't tried to mount any other females yet...just this one particular girl.

Hmm...what else...I suppose that is it: sassy whining and barking (no patience), mounting his "girlfriend", responding inappropriately to dominant males, some resource guarding with his toys (and other dogs), and jumping up. Ideas, please! Other than that, he's really great  Also, if you have any specific training suggestions to help him (and myself) through this phase (aside from repetition), I'm all ears. 

I ended up getting a prong collar when this all started. I've been training him quite successfully on a regular flat buckle collar until that point. He is a much harder dog than I originally anticipated, and many times even the quick correction with the prong collar doesn't even phase him (used when he is really sassing and out of line jumping and barking/whining). 



happy 9 months! by jsnail17, on Flickr


love this one by jsnail17, on Flickr


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Gosh, he's gorgeous! Sounds as though you're on the right track in noticing these behaviors. Step up the exercise and training, maybe go to a class.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

My trainer wants us doing private lessons. She's not a fan of group classes though she does offer them. I've never not done a group class (if for nothing more than to work on distractions and proofing commands) so this is new to me. I refuse to wait until I'm told I can take him out and work him in public though. My weekends are his weekends too so we do everything together and I want him as polite as he is when we train during the week.

And thank you!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

forget about stages. how much training and socializing
are you doing? do you need a trainer?


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Training: Formally 2x day strictly OB, more on weekends. Informally, every moment I'm home. He doesn't get anything for "free". 

Socialization: Kaiser is absolutely oversocialized, to the point where many people are shocked at his lack of aloofness and refuse to believe he is pure GSD. This is not the issue. 

If you read my response to Stosh's statement you would know that I have a trainer.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

anyone?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Kaiser2012 said:


> anyone?


I don't know what to say, except keep being on top of, and addressing, the behaviors. 

Also, maybe it's time to not be around so many dogs. 

Wish I had more to offer. I am not having any of those issues. The only thing I have noticed is that Hans is more powerful, wants to sniff his pee every single time he makes one, and needs more exercise.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

The funny thing is, Kaiser ignores his pee lol. He will pay more attention to other dogs smells sometimes, but he doesn't mark (I have him potty in the same spot mornings/evenings and I will only allow him to potty on my terms when we are on walks).

I just wasnt sure if there was anything else I could try, especially with the barking and jumping (ie, patience!) aside from what I'm already trying.

As far as his behavior with aggressive/dominant males, I suppose I would expect most animals to stand their ground, but I want to make sure that he doesn't turn into an aggressive/dominant dog himself (if there is anything I can do to help it).


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm taught the way to have a good handle on my dog is to correct her before it gets full blown. So if the dog is starting to misbehave, don't wait to correct until he's really bad. Correct when he even starts to think that way. You'd have to learn to read your dog. When the dog is amped up, the correction doesn't usually work as well and would need to be pretty strong, in my experience. So it's actually kinder to correct lightly to redirect them right when he's about to sass you than to think that's not a big one and wait for it to get big where a much harder correction (which maybe a trainer can show if your correction is hard enough) at that point.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

You say you have a trainer and are training a couple of times a day, yet you have a dog that ignores you, sasses you, jumps on people, and is resource guarding. You only recently moved to a prong collar and are barely using it. This indicates to me that you aren't properly using a prong and your training is very poor. If you were training properly, you wouldn't be having these problems and it's not a stage, it's a training issue.

Fire your trainer, get a new one that knows what they are doing, and put your foot down with your dog. There's no excuse for your dog's bad manners, which is what this is all about.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Bear L said:


> I'm taught the way to have a good handle on my dog is to correct her before it gets full blown. So if the dog is starting to misbehave, don't wait to correct until he's really bad. Correct when he even starts to think that way. You'd have to learn to read your dog. When the dog is amped up, the correction doesn't usually work as well and would need to be pretty strong, in my experience. So it's actually kinder to correct lightly to redirect them right when he's about to sass you than to think that's not a big one and wait for it to get big where a much harder correction (which maybe a trainer can show if your correction is hard enough) at that point.


I do try to read him. He is very obvious because he goes from giving me full attention to none at all, the moment he sees/hears another person or dog. If I can't break his focus then, we go the other direction. If he gives it back to me, we continue working. If its a scenario where I want to work on his polite greetings, we will continue to work at it until we get up to the person. If he jumps, we move back. Its a process we work on daily. 

And I do correct when he requires it, especially when he starts to sass.



Elaine said:


> You say you have a trainer and are training a couple of times a day, yet you have a dog that ignores you, sasses you, jumps on people, and is resource guarding. You only recently moved to a prong collar and are barely using it. This indicates to me that you aren't properly using a prong and your training is very poor. If you were training properly, you wouldn't be having these problems and it's not a stage, it's a training issue.
> 
> Fire your trainer, get a new one that knows what they are doing, and put your foot down with your dog. There's no excuse for your dog's bad manners, which is what this is all about.


Barely? I only use the collar when he requires correction. There is no need to correct a behaving dog. Barely? I put it on him every time we go out now. Been that way for 3 weeks. Just because its on him doesn't mean I correct him. I'm trying to get him used to wearing it so he does not become collar smart. I use it when he is misbehaving/sassing/out of line/whatever you want to call it. If he is whining and breaking focus, I give him one chance to bring back his focus to me. If that doesn't work, he gets popped with the prong. Generally when he is jumping he will ignore the prong unless I give a stronger correction. That will get his attention, however ultimately with any of his issues I don't want him to respond ONLY to the collar. My goal is to work through this, fix the issues, and remove the prong collar down the road while still maintaining a polite, respectable dog. I can't stand dogs who are collar smart. 

As far as my trainer goes, shes it. The only person in the area who is familiar with GSDs (being that she used to breed and successfully compete in Schutzhund) and the only person who I clicked with. Her methods are not familiar to me, but so far the OB portion has worked. Her husband trained one of their dogs entirely without a collar at all using focus work and relationship building. His methods are different from hers, but she and I click better.

ETA: I have no patience for an impolite dog. I don't care that he is still a 'puppy'. This is why I am trying to fix these issues...issues that NEVER existed before. The point I'm trying to make is that how is this not a stage if its not a behavior that ever existed? I do not believe this is due to poor training or a poor foundation. He had GREAT foundation work and was very polite up until about 3-4 weeks ago. He is still a great dog and when exercised hard is very polite. However I don't have 7-8 hours a day to do so. Basically on weekends we spend every moment we can getting exercise. On weekdays it is obviously much harder.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I know what you're going through. Some people meet my puppy and they think he's Mr. Perfect. When we participated in the Therapy Dog fundraiser, I was asked a few times why I'm not getting him tested yet, rotflmao! But then at other times, I get dirty looks for taking such a wild beast out in public. He's either very good or very bad, nothing ever in the middle.

I found that for him, changing direction doesn't help. He's just as happy to go the other way. So I just stop him on the spot. His bad behavior is mostly screaming, so I won't move until he's quiet. I don't have the same problems as you have, but just wanted to share that moving is still rewarding, and maybe if you try to just stand still until you get the behavior you want, it might get through to him.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Kaiser is gorgeous. The training issues..dont let him do the things you dont like!!!

Practice shaking peoples hands with him in a sit, if he starts to move correct him back to a sit. Resource guarding, practice at home, give him a highly valued treat, trade for another. If he is growling, showing teeth, a spritz of bitter apple, and "leave it!". Any dominate behaviors, prong collar snap and "AUGHT". This is what has worked for me and my dogs..always adjust for your dogs temperament ..!

He is not obedient to you, from what it sounds. A dog that can heel, sit, come is not necessarily "obedient". 

Maybe a different trainer would be good..and I like group lessons with lots of dogs, with a good trainer. Then you can work thru issues in a real-life scenario..not a padded cell!

I would be laying down the law with him. Good luck!


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

I myself prefer the group lessons with lexie, it forces her to be around other dogs and focus her attention on me and not the dogs. I do know that lexie became more vocal as she matured (voicing her opinion), my little sassy!!!! anyway, ive read many of your posts and you are a good momma and are on top of your training with kaiser, so this is something you will work thru. the pronge collar for me is a must (lexie has a high prey drive) and my back is very old, lol. Im not a fan of turn in the other direction method, i prefer to nip it in the bud, this is where the pronge comes into play for me. there are so many methods of training, which one is the best, who knows? perhaps the one that works best for your dog  good luck


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

ponyfarm said:


> Kaiser is gorgeous. The training issues..dont let him do the things you dont like!!!
> 
> Practice shaking peoples hands with him in a sit, if he starts to move correct him back to a sit. Resource guarding, practice at home, give him a highly valued treat, trade for another. If he is growling, showing teeth, a spritz of bitter apple, and "leave it!". Any dominate behaviors, prong collar snap and "AUGHT". This is what has worked for me and my dogs..always adjust for your dogs temperament ..!
> 
> ...


He doesn't resource guard with me or any people. Just dominant/aggressive male dogs.

I'm trying to lay down the law, which is why he often does not get what he wants. I do like the idea of practicing shaking hands with a sit. 



[email protected] said:


> I myself prefer the group lessons with lexie, it forces her to be around other dogs and focus her attention on me and not the dogs. I do know that lexie became more vocal as she matured (voicing her opinion), my little sassy!!!! anyway, ive read many of your posts and you are a good momma and are on top of your training with kaiser, so this is something you will work thru. the pronge collar for me is a must (lexie has a high prey drive) and my back is very old, lol. Im not a fan of turn in the other direction method, i prefer to nip it in the bud, this is where the pronge comes into play for me. there are so many methods of training, which one is the best, who knows? perhaps the one that works best for your dog  good luck


Thank you so much for the encouragement!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Sounds like to me, you have an intact male who is feeling his oats. 

Don't you just love being told your training is very poor due to only reading a single forum post?

Some of this stuff goes with the territory, I've found, but it does not hurt one bit - and only helps - to ramp up the obedience and exercise. NILIF as well.

Good luck!


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

chelle said:


> Sounds like to me, you have an intact male who is feeling his oats.
> 
> Don't you just love being told your training is very poor due to only reading a single forum post?
> 
> ...


I dont think anyone said your training was poor! I have followed your posts and know you work a ton with him. Just giving you my insight of what has worked for me. Yea, internet certainly does not convey empathy, and you have mine as Max just turned eight months old.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Kaiser2012 said:


> anyone?


I just had a day like this with WD for the first time. Once he was plain tired he started to cooperate. He is one week past 8 months, intact and showing similar tendencies.

It is like with human teenagers: NILIFF treatment. Your dogs will tell you what they need. I got my info from WD today so I started a strict protocol. Another technique I use is "ignore instead of adore" (don't pet, talk to him or feed him treats just because he is alive). I just admire him without "him knowing about it."

From many years of experience I know this will work; it just always comes unexpected and you think ,"what the (*$% happened to this pup?"


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

maybe training 2x's a day isn't enough. train more
and work on the problem areas.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> I just had a day like this with WD for the first time. Once he was plain tired he started to cooperate. He is one week past 8 months, intact and showing similar tendencies.
> 
> It is like with human teenagers: NILIFF treatment. Your dogs will tell you what they need. I got my info from WD today so I started a strict protocol. Another technique I use is "ignore instead of adore" (don't pet, talk to him or feed him treats just because he is alive). I just admire him without "him knowing about it."
> 
> From many years of experience I know this will work; it just always comes unexpected and you think ,"what the (*$% happened to this pup?"


Yeah I definitely instill NILF (always have), almost to the point that my non-training-inclined friends think I'm a bit...harsh. I know it works, so I'll continue to do it.

Another good idea for the "no free loves". I do always try to make him do something to get something. Although I admit when he is in snuggle mode its really hard to keep my hands off him.



ponyfarm said:


> I dont think anyone said your training was poor! I have followed your posts and know you work a ton with him. Just giving you my insight of what has worked for me. Yea, internet certainly does not convey empathy, and you have mine as Max just turned eight months old.


Oh I wasn't frustrated with you! I love your posts and always look forward to your opinions!!  



chelle said:


> Sounds like to me, you have an intact male who is feeling his oats.
> 
> Don't you just love being told your training is very poor due to only reading a single forum post?
> 
> ...


I'll continue to do all that. Too bad there is no magic button


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

training and socializing are 2 magical buttons.



Kaiser2012 said:


> Yeah I definitely instill NILF (always have), almost to the point that my non-training-inclined friends think I'm a bit...harsh. I know it works, so I'll continue to do it.
> 
> Another good idea for the "no free loves". I do always try to make him do something to get something. Although I admit when he is in snuggle mode its really hard to keep my hands off him.
> 
> ...


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> training and socializing are 2 magical buttons.


I'm not sure why you repeat things that I've already said I'm doing, and have been doing. I suppose you are just here to get a rise out of me since its obvious you aren't listening. This is my last response to you unless you decide to offer productive advice.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

I don't really have too much to offer you other than what has already said. What worked for me was to really hammer home on the NILIF. Really simple things that I always let him do now required at least some basic obedience tricks. Even things like going through a doorway, or getting in and out of the truck, etc.

It DOES get better as they mature (so long as you keep up with what you are already doing), you won't always have to feel like you are being super-strict.

I found too that with the prong, keeping his head up off the ground so he can't smell everything helps keep his excitement/anxiety at a lower, more easily manageable level.

I don't know if it's possible to train him to run on a treadmill, but you could try exhausting him first before you go somewhere that you know is going to be a high-excitement situation. They are a LOT easier to manage and train when they are already physically worn out.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

My family has a friend who's a behaviorist, when we were talking about life in general a few weeks ago and got talking about Delgado and some issues that had come up. The conversation went something like this:

Me: We (my sister and I) have been having some issues come up lately with Delgado

Dan: Oh, how old is he now?

Me: Just over 8 months

Dan: Neutered?

Me: No

Dan: Getting more aggressive in his play at the dog park?

Me: Yes

Dan: Not listening as well as he was?

Me: Yes

Dan: Is he marking more?

Me: No, he very rarely marks

Dan: Shaking or destroying toys and just acting cranky in general?

Me: YES!

Dan explained that he gets a LOT of calls for behaviour problems around that age for intact males. They get a BIG dose of testosterone around 8-9 months and it ramps their sex drive up past all others and we need to compensate and help them by upping their exercise and allow them to settle back to mostly normal. He recommends either biking or rollerblading with them but I'm not comfortable with doing either with a dog personally so I had to get creative. He knows my main goal was to do agility but I can't start agility hard core until next summer at the earliest and the others like tracking and RallyO classes are around other dogs which sets him off right now to hyper excitement mode which is the complete opposite of what I'm working towards

I used to do a 20 minute obedience walk with Delgado in the morning then my sister would take him for 1-1.5 hours at the dog park in the morning, after I got home from work in the afternoon I'd take him again for another 1.5 hours to the dog park. I tried to find another off leash park in the area but they were either too small, too close to the road, or too crowded. So I went with plan B and quit the dog park entirely and now do two one hour obedience walks and I use our basement to play with him. It's open concept and finished but empty of furniture so it's perfect for fetch, the flirt pole, and a little agility and tracking training. I also take him once a week to my parents place where they have a fenced one acre dog run where he runs and plays with their labradoodle Samson who is his best friend

I think taking away the excitement of the dog park and freedom off leash has helped curb most of his bad behaviour and he's been taking well to the new routine 

The main reason I quit the dog park for now was Delgado's misbehavior. I'm very much a one strike that's it person. He misbehaves once it's a correction, misbehave twice that's it you lose whatever privilege is causing the problem. I only had to leave once before he realized that if he doesn't get to play anymore and he behaved if told. Now however I knew it would be setting him up to fail to continue going so we've stopped for now.

Hopefully knowing that you're not alone and the reason behind it (testosterone) will help. You're already upping the obedience and NILF so I would up the exercise to tire him out more, maybe try the roller blading or biking so it's a strictly exercise only time for that period. If you're already doing it then up the tempo or length and see if that helps

I'm not saying what works for Delgado and I will help you but it might or other solutions given hopefully will point you in the right direction. I also booked Delgado in for his neuter next month when he hits 10 months. I'm not doing Schutzhund or any sport which requires him to be intact and I had already planned on doing it at one year already so it wasn't a huge change of plans


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

"Another issue that I expected but was still sad to see develop is his reaction to other un-neutered male dogs. Generally he is just fine, unless they try to mount him or challenge him. He is really not a dominant dog per say (never any posturing, bullying, throat holding, etc) but with other dominant dogs I think he feels he needs to stand his ground. This is NOT ok with me, so I always redirect (and usually yell at the other owner to control their dog) and take him out of the situation immediately. "


If I were a dog I would be po'd if I was being mounted all the time too. Good of you to not allow other dogs to do this to him. I am not a fan of dog parks for this and other reasons. I would find dogs you know to be friendly and appropriate for Kaiser to play with. 

It sounds as if you are on the right track with him and his butt headedness. I think if you are firm and stick to it and not cave to him you will see him emerge in a few more months. I would definitley start formal training classes, maybe even some agility. 

I came back to edit this as I had not read all the posts, just the first page. I have not followed your journey with Kaiser as I don't post much here but it sounds as if you are handling yourself well. I do not have much tolerance for disobedience in my dogs either but I always prefer to remain positive unless I have to get compulsive. 

Positive does mot equal permissive but I think you know that. So do not let the folk that say correct, 'correct correct with a prong' or 'you are not using the prong enough or correctly' get to you. Use what method works for you and the dog. If you like your trainer and you guys click, then stick with her. 

Good luck.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Sounds to me like you are on top of the situation. When Stella was that age she began to really react to other dogs. And blow me off a lot. I don't think I was quite as on top of things as you are but we are now and it is making a difference. We got a prong a few weeks ago and use it as needed. Upped the obedience expectations. The trainer that introduced me to the prong said I don't expect enough of her. It was good for me to read your post as I think I was starting to slack off a bit again. It reminded me to keep it up. 
I think this saying about kids is also true about dogs..... "Give your kid an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler".


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## thatsrich85 (Jun 30, 2012)

As a new male gsd owner (only ever had females), I was just curious why you all wait so long to neuter? My vet recommended 6 months...


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I <3 you Kaiser  

I know this is probably a poor recommendation but he may just grow out of the sassiness...especially if you're working on fixing it. I agree with Chelle...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you said you train 2x's a day and more on the weekend. i'm saying
train and socialize more often and train more often in the areas
you're having problems with.

you said "too bad there is no magaical button." i'm saying
training and socializing are magical buttons.

what i'm saying is put more into your training and socializing,
do it more. you're having problems so it's obvious what you're
doing isn't working so i'm thinking do it more.



Kaiser2012 said:


> >>>> I'm not sure why you repeat things that I've already said I'm doing, and have been doing. <<<<
> 
> I suppose you are just here to get a rise out of me since its obvious you aren't listening. This is my last response to you unless you decide to offer productive advice.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

thatsrich85 said:


> As a new male gsd owner (only ever had females), I was just curious why you all wait so long to neuter? My vet recommended 6 months...


Waiting until they are more mature like 18 months will benefit their bone structure. I think they recommend it without looking at the individual dog.
I have had mostly males all my life. Some were neutered, many weren't, no matter mutt or purebred. I give them the benefit of the doubt and if they develop hormone related problem behavior they are off to the vet. This crazy adolescence stage is most likely a stage. Work through it like others have said.
I hate it when vets always want to castrate them just because they have testicles (I mean the dog). I like the masculine look of intact males. I always feel sorry if I have to neuter them but like the change in them after it has happened.
But neutering is not a fix-all.


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