# Irresponsible Breeders and Genetic Issues - Rant



## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

After dealing with Moxy's chronic and recurrent skin infections for well over a year now, I finally got a diagnosis today after taking her to a new vet.

The vet told me that Moxy has a genetic problem where she overproduces oil on her skin, and the additional oil causes all the problems as she is allergic to her own oil. 

I am angry because, one no other vet has been able to tell me this after all the problems I've had. Two, someone bred her before we got her. Even the vet told me that she should have NEVER been bred, which means that her parents should have never been bred.

Someone, somewhere, decided it would be awesome to breed this awesome dog...and pass on ALL her wonderful skin issue traits to future generations. Obviously, someone didn't give 2 craps to check her pedigree before deciding to breed her....and they obviously wouldn't have understood the pedigree if they had.

Now, my dog has to be on Prednisone for the rest of her life and receive twice weekly baths with a follicle-flushing shampoo for the rest of her life...all because some irresponsible breeder thought it would be a great idea to breed their less than stellar dogs. Way to better the breed. 

I feel really sorry for Moxy. She didn't deserve this kind of life. She is constantly itchy, scabby, patchy, and smelly. For it to be hereditary, somewhere down the line, one or both of her parents/grandparents/ancestors had to exhibit the same issues. Why didn't someone say, "You know what? Maybe I shouldn't breed this dog. Even though he/she has a great temperament and would make great pet puppies, I'm going to do the responsible thing and spay/neuter this dog so I will not contribute to a growing problem."

Do the world a favor. If you are planning on breeding your dog, know what the heck you're doing before proceeding. Research pedigrees. Find out about your dog(s). Find out about health issues. Learn about genetics and how they carry on in future generations. Don't breed just to make a buck. Be responsible. Don't ruin a future dog's life because you have a nice looking and good temperament dog. Also, don't ruin things for future first-time GSD owners.

I'm not trying to offend. I'm just really irritated and sad right now.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Moxy said:


> After dealing with Moxy's chronic and recurrent skin infections for well over a year now, I finally got a diagnosis today after taking her to a new vet.
> 
> The vet told me that Moxy has a genetic problem where she overproduces oil on her skin, and the additional oil causes all the problems as she is allergic to her own oil.
> 
> ...


That goes for buyers too! Research pedigrees, learn about genetics and don't buy impulsively(not saying you did at all, but many people just buy out of convenience and don't look at the breeders program which supports those breeders who don't do right by the dogs). 
Was this vet a specialist?
I would get a second opinion,did the vet rule out a yeast infection that is causing the skin issue?
I'd do more research before going the route the vet suggests, and if that is your only option then so be it....Pred is a nasty drug with side effects, but sometimes there are no options

I would think there would be other alternatives to what your vet has suggested. 

Canine Allergies and Your Dog's Health - Whole Dog Journal Article

Sorry for Moxy...she must be miserable!


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> That goes for buyers too! Research pedigrees, learn about genetics and don't buy impulsively(not saying you did at all, but many people just buy out of convenience and don't look at the breeders program which supports those breeders who don't do right by the dogs).
> Was this vet a specialist?
> I would get a second opinion,did the vet rule out a yeast infection that is causing the skin issue?
> I'd do more research before going the route the vet suggests, and if that is your only option then so be it....Pred is a nasty drug with side effects, but sometimes there are no options
> ...


I didn't buy from a breeder. I rescued her from the pound the day she was supposed to be PTS. She was emaciated and gross, but she had potential. 

I have been to 3 different vets, and this one is the first one to offer a diagnosis that finally made sense. It's been ongoing for over a year, now. Unless I want to constantly spend money on antibiotics,anti-fungals....etc, then this is the maintenance that is required. The prednisone keeps the itching and scratching at bay, which keeps the infections down, same with the shampoo. So, I'd rather go this route, which will be cheaper in the long run, than following a constant cycle of antibiotics/antifungals. And, yes, she has a fungal/bacterial infection right now. So, that is part of the problem, and she is being treated for that. The vet said that the low dose of prednisone, given every other day, will be safe for her over the course of her life than prednisone given every day. He also wants to follow up with her next Friday to make sure this route is working. He was the one who said she should have never been bred.

I'm not trying to sound snippy. I'm still upset at the previous 2 vets that never offered solutions. They just said, "Skin infection" and left it at that. We ruled out flea and food allergies. It's been an uphill battle for a year and a half. There was a 2 month golden period while she was on Doxy for erlichiosis. I'm going to try this route, and we'll see how it goes. She still gets 1000mg of vitamin C daily, with probiotics, coconut oil, grain-free dog food, and raw treats. She got spoiled with some raw beef stew cuts last night. She and the little dog loved those.

I care very much about Moxy. She has an amazing disposition and has been a wonderful companion for our family. I go out of my way to make sure she is taken care of. So, that's why I'm really upset about irresponsible breeding. Especially in a breed like the GSD that is so prone to health problems as is.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Yeah. Kinda makes the argument that BYBs are just _wonderful_ to purchase a dog from moot.

I've been saying this for ages, btw, since we see, all the time, the results of poor breeding. Two foster Dachshunds, one blind/deaf from being double-dapple, the other gorgeous coloring (tri color!) and a bad front leg which sticks out all the time and barely supports him, and he's got rampant skin issues as well. And a whole host of our own beautiful Dachshunds with genetic issues...it goes on and one, but it stops here, everyone here is fixed


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Moxy said:


> I didn't buy from a breeder. I rescued her from the pound the day she was supposed to be PTS. She was emaciated and gross, but she had potential.


I know you rescued her~and wasn't the one who used her for breeding, that is why I posted what I did in the parenthesis. The link I posted is interesting, worth reading.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Yeah. Kinda makes the argument that BYBs are just _wonderful_ to purchase a dog from moot.
> 
> I've been saying this for ages, btw, since we see, all the time, the results of poor breeding. Two foster Dachshunds, one blind/deaf from being double-dapple, the other gorgeous coloring (tri color!) and a bad front leg which sticks out all the time and barely supports him, and he's got rampant skin issues as well. And a whole host of our own beautiful Dachshunds with genetic issues...it goes on and one, but it stops here, everyone here is fixed


You poor thing! We got lucky that our little dog has never been sick. Our cat has congestive heart failure, and there isn't much the vet can do for him. He manages pretty well, though. We have all our pets fixed. No way I would EVER get into breeding. Not after this. I think it takes something like this happening to really teach someone of the risks associated with being a BYB.

Thank you for all the advice you have given regarding Moxy in the past. This vet doesn't think the erlichia returned. He was an older gentleman. Had this really wonderful, quiet personality. Talking to him reminded me of the old author James Herriot. He was very knowledgeable and informative. He also had me get hands on and scratch into her fur for myself to see what he was talking about....which I have done in the past, and it was really gross. I do trust this one. You know that feeling you get around certain people. This guy made me feel comfortable. Honestly, I'm just glad it wasn't cancer or anything like that. I wouldn't want to have to put her to sleep any time soon. At least this is manageable.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

that wasn't a breeder that was someone who wanted to make some bucks. 
You may have to do a major upheaval in her food. I have seen some very dramatic turnarounds - yes dogs that had run out of options - restore good health .
Greasy coat - has anyone looked into thyroid .
Shampoo with Selsun Blue fortified which will remove oil and fungi . That will take care of the fungal problem , at least externally. 
Review the food , include digestive enzymes and probiotics .


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I know you rescued her~and wasn't the one who used her for breeding, that is why I posted what I did in the parenthesis. The link I posted is interesting, worth reading.


Just read the article, and it does apply to Moxy...and we are doing all that. She is on a salmon-based dog food. No grain. No soy. No chicken fat. She gets doggy probiotics. We took care of the flea problem to rule out fleas. She is being treated with ketoconazole, and has been in the past. Honestly, I'm doing everything that article suggests....except for the herbs. Hard to come by in this place. However, I will be trying my hand at growing my own herbs come spring.

I do appreciate the article, though. It makes sense. Thank you for sharing.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Skin issues can be humongous. The skin is the largest organ on the body.

I would add salmon oil to the diet if you aren't already, feed Natural Balance (or possibly raw) and also wash with a product called Duoxo. DOUXO® Shampoos and Sprays

What your vet is describing is seborrhea, which can occur in dogs. The issue is when yeast invade - which in turn causes increased grease/oilyness because the body is trying to flush out the yeast by producing more oil.

I don't know as "allergic to itself" is what's wrong, per se, but it could be described that way maybe.
Also bacteria can jump onto this bandwagon going on in your dog's skin as well.

The duoxo products will address that.

I'd avoid prednisone at ALL costs if you can. A product called Atopica is out there, as well as using zyrtec for dogs.

PS. We had a dog just like you describe, and the above treatments did work well for her.
Just an allergy free diet is enough for the little foster Dachshund we have


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

stinging nettle and dandelion leaves work as well if not better than cleavers.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Merck Veterinary Manual
I think that's it. 

I totally agree with you - anyone producing puppies should be smarter than the average bear, and able to understand the how, what, why, of what they are doing.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Skin issues can be humongous. The skin is the largest organ on the body.
> 
> I would add salmon oil to the diet if you aren't already, feed Natural Balance (or possibly raw) and also wash with a product called Duoxo. DOUXO® Shampoos and Sprays
> 
> ...


Yep. That's what she has. She is miserably itchy right now, so I'm going to use the prednisone for now until we get the infections under control. If she's better next week, we will be done with the prednisone. It's 5 mg every other day. Benedryl didn't do anything to help her itchiness. It's like she's immune.

The vet gave us a shampoo called Keratolux. Have you ever heard of it? He said this should help, but if it doesn't, we might have to use something smelly. Not sure what that means.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Merck Veterinary Manual
> I think that's it.
> 
> I totally agree with you - anyone producing puppies should be smarter than the average bear, and able to understand the how, what, why, of what they are doing.


That is EXACTLY the course of treatment this vet is following! Good read, too. I didn't know it was going to get worse before it got better with this shampoo. I think he meant having to go to the tar-based shampoo if this doesn't work. Here's hoping we can avoid that. Thank you for sharing!!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Keratolux.


Hm, I haven't, but it may be similar. I really think you'd be happy with the Duoxo. Keep in mind I had to research a ton of this myself, didn't get it from the vet. 

The one you've got may be good, it sounds good. Try the Duoxo before the tar shampoo. Take it from me, the tar shampoo smells horrible mixed with "sick dog fur"!!! I mean headache bad...!

I know full well what you're dealing with, and luckily the one we had was a Pug, very small/easy to bathe...


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

Since you're doing the prednisone, just wanted to give you a heads-up to keep an eye out for signs of diabetes. Prednisone can induce diabetes, even at extremely low doses. It's not common, but it does happen. 

Also, watch for increased urination, another side effect some vets will tell you can't happen at low doses. Our one dog was so sensitive to the stuff that ear drops containing a tiny percentage of prednisone caused him to start having accidents in the house and needing to pee every hour. This in a 9 yr. old dog that hadn't had an accident since he was 12wks old. The accidents stopped the day after we switched him to prednisone-free drops.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I understand the 'need' for pred...it's kind of standard, but the problem is, pred. can cause yeast and/or make it worse, too. 
I hope you can get her off it...sooner than later


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

*Iatrogenic Hyperadrenocorticism:* The third cause of Cushing's is one that we can create ourselves if we give a dog too much external glucocorticoid, especially for chronic conditions like allergies. We essentially do what the adrenal tumor would do by flooding the dog's body with an excess of corticosteroid. Although both the adrenals and pituitary will attempt to respond to our interference by cutting ACTH and cortisol secretion, if we continue to bombard the dog's body with too much glucocorticoid, symptoms of Cushing's disease will result. The reason dogs are given tapering doses or every-other-day doses of steroids like prednisone is to avoid this consequence. Dogs with this form of Cushing's tend to have two very small, atrophied adrenal glands. Nonetheless, if iatrogenic (veterinary-induced) hyperadrenocorticism develops, it is fully reversible. The external source of steroid is slowly withdrawn to allow the adrenals to "wake up" and resume functioning. 

Pet Owner's Crash Course in Canine Cushing's Disease

This is going to be a curt response...not directed at you, nor anybody else on this thread.

This is directed at your VET. He just gave a "diagnosis" then ask him how to cure it, not supress it!!!!!!!!

Carm mentioned stinging nettle and dandilion.
Onyx and the whole dog journal artcl.
Grain free isn't carbohydrate free!!!!!!!
Detox yeast - NO SUGARS AT ALL...carbs are sugars. It could take a year.
If you had oily hair instead of "normal or dry" would you go on pred.?
Thyroid - DID YOUR VET ADDRESS THIS????
Adrenals/Thyroid/immune system - Ashwagandha/Astragalus root.
Bath and rinse - Goldenseal Tea, Pau D' Arco, Yellow Dock, Bayberry, 

So much can be done if you go to the RIGHT vet...INTEGRATIVE!

Sorry but this Vet is a Hack. Gotta fly, but I had to get this out so I don't loose the thread when I get back.

Lova ya, don't mean to yell at ya

allergic to it's own oil...:laugh::laugh::laugh:...folliculitis...boil or zit or ingrown hair


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Keratolux can be helpful for some skin issues, and might well help in her case. I tend to shy away from using Keratolux too often because it is very drying, but since her problem is overproduction of oil, it may be just the thing for her.

The tar/sulfur shampoos are good too, but they are stinky.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Skin issues can be humongous. The skin is the largest organ on the body.
> 
> I would add salmon oil to the diet if you aren't already, feed Natural Balance (or possibly raw) and also wash with a product called Duoxo. DOUXO® Shampoos and Sprays
> 
> ...



why natural balance?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

This is something that I bought today at our local co-op. I have not tried it . I like to have things on hand for emergencies -- be familiar with products so I can make good recommendations . 

The product is Vetericyn . So I googled it and if it is half as good as the claims it is going to be something great. 

Vetericyn - Wound and Infection Treatment - Broad Spectrum Antimicrobial


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Found a human formula Puracyn TheDispensaryOnline.com - Puracyn Skin and Wound Care HydroGel


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would read Dr Dodds articles on thyroid. Grim has been on the low side of normal for years but when he blew his TOPCOAT and it was harsh and dry I persuaded the vet to run a trial of thyroid hormone. We are doing the Armour thryoid, not the synthetic. I have been nothing short of amazed. For the first time ever his coat is shiny and soft and it is thicker than it ever was. I did make a food change though around the same time so it is hard to know for sure what did it but we will be running blood panels after the new year.

All the little symptoms over the years, including atrophy of his testes, He never did show any signs of agression that is often associated with hyporthyroid.

Of course that was our experience; there are many things that can cause issues...my dog with immune issues and perianal fistulas often had greasy coat. 

Thyroid-Articles


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

pets4life said:


> why natural balance?


It's one of the best hypoallergenic diets out there.

Also vetericyn is merely bleach and salt mixed up in a stable formula, not sure how, since bleach breaks down readily in water, but they say it's good for everything.

That said, one of the best all-purpose anti-fungal/anti-bacterial/anti-viral solutions we use here in rescue is Chlorhexadine. It's similar to bleach in how it would kill just about everything (microscopically) but kind and gentle to the skin.
In fact, it's used in mouthwashes, skin washes, etc. My son was given it to wash with before both his surgeries last year. 
They used to use betadine for washing pre-surgically :shrug:


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

stealthq said:


> Since you're doing the prednisone, just wanted to give you a heads-up to keep an eye out for signs of diabetes. Prednisone can induce diabetes, even at extremely low doses. It's not common, but it does happen.
> 
> Also, watch for increased urination, another side effect some vets will tell you can't happen at low doses. Our one dog was so sensitive to the stuff that ear drops containing a tiny percentage of prednisone caused him to start having accidents in the house and needing to pee every hour. This in a 9 yr. old dog that hadn't had an accident since he was 12wks old. The accidents stopped the day after we switched him to prednisone-free drops.


Yep. She's had one pill so far. She slept a good bit, but she's had to pee about 3 or 4 times this evening, but she's not anymore thirsty than usual.

@ Gator - My poor dog is miserable, and those things are hard to come by around here on short notice. I have finally found a vet who can give me some answers after a year and a half. Coconut oil didn't do squat except help her vitamin C go down easier. It certainly made her ear infection worse. So, as I continue the basic regimen that I was doing before, I am doing this to help now. Her condition isn't oily skin. It's almost like doggy eczema or cradle cap. And overproduction of oil, which gets really itchy....and the scratching and licking lead to the infections. So, if I were as itchy and miserable, I would gladly take pred. Considering human doctor prescribe hydrocortisone do my son's eczema to keep the itching at bay, and they prescribe stronger shampoos for stubborn and troublesome cradle cap on babies, then I agree with this doctor's approach. I was not going to keep her on pred forever. I am doing the best I can with the means I have available in the here and now. 

I posted this thread to voice my frustration that she has a genetic condition, as did her parents and those before them....and someone thought it would be a great trait to pass on.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Sometimes the parents aren't sick themselves but may, together, have combined to make a sick puppy. 
There's human conditions where both parents have to have certain genes and maybe this is one of them. I don't know about the foster Pug we had's parents. 
All I know is she got the short end of the stick. Along with her allergies/skin conditions, she had hip dysplasia. Pugs are famous for it, almost worse than Labs and GSDs.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Everything you can get re: access online.

the rest has been put out there. You came on tis forum looking for a way to boost the immune system and an integrative approach incl. natural. Evey dog is different. there is no cookie cutter solution - just trial and error and prednisone if you don't consult w/a holistic vet, or ignore the success's of the raw fed dogs and failures of those who mistook pred. as a cure, and when stopped the symptoms came back even worse - this would be after the pred damage is done and the immune system is even worse off.

allergies are an immune system gone awry. Yeast is the hormone system gone awry.
The thyroid regulates hormones along with the adrenals, this is the endocrine system along with the hypothalamus, pancreas...this is responsible for how the immune system does it's job...focus on those, and detox the liver and kidneys, remove carbs as yeast"s" can be systemic (think about women who have hormonal issues that have yeast issues, such as pregnancy)...give quercetin as an temp. antihistamine to get over the hump.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Sometimes the parents aren't sick themselves but may, together, have combined to make a sick puppy.
> There's human conditions where both parents have to have certain genes and maybe this is one of them. I don't know about the foster Pug we had's parents.
> All I know is she got the short end of the stick. Along with her allergies/skin conditions, she had hip dysplasia. Pugs are famous for it, almost worse than Labs and GSDs.


True, but somewhere down the line, one of her ancestors had this issue. Someone had to have seen it. I just feel bad for her.

On a positive note, Moxy slept through the night for the first time in a month. No pacing. No licking. No chewing. No shaking. No flipping her head. So, I know she had some relief last night. I have to give her a bath in this stuff, but I am going to wait until tomorrow when we don't have so much going on. 

@ Gator - My apologies for snapping. I do what I can naturally, but I also believe in the power of medicine. I can't help it. I studied science and medicine in school. It's just who I am.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Moxy said:


> True, but somewhere down the line, one of her ancestors had this issue. Someone had to have seen it. I just feel bad for her.
> 
> On a positive note, Moxy slept through the night for the first time in a month. No pacing. No licking. No chewing. No shaking. No flipping her head. So, I know she had some relief last night. I have to give her a bath in this stuff, but I am going to wait until tomorrow when we don't have so much going on.
> 
> @ Gator - My apologies for snapping. I do what I can naturally, but I also believe in the power of medicine. I can't help it. I studied science and medicine in school. It's just who I am.


Good Morning!...you do not owe me any apologies, I was thinking I owed you as I may have come across as abrupt - I had a frustrating day yesterday, was maxed out, and the 'diagnosis' and only treatment being harsh shampoo's and steroids...BTW, tell me it's not Temeral P is it?

I cannot fathom why, with all the years of education and expence, Vets do not treat the underlying issue first and formost....just reminded me of how frustated I was and still am to get vets to address what needs to be addressed. I have actually been talked out of thyroid tests by 3 diff. vets. I will be getting a new vet soon, and I will INSIST on Jean Dodds doing it.

Q - What causes systemic yeast problem 
A - bad bacterial overgrowth, hormone imbalance, endocrine/immune imbalance
Q - what feeds yeast
A - bacteria and dieoff, sugars
Q - why does bad bacteria proliferate
A - yeast and dieoff, antibiotics
Q - Will steroids and abx. promote a healthy immune system and balance the bacteria and hault the yeast overgrowth
A.......NO...will cause noted above 

I wholeheartedly understand that you have to do conventional intervention, especially when the dog is in such distress and you as well. But as long as that is not the final...as in on it for life as you said your vet said, but until you can get a solution from a vet who wants to start from the inside out. Diet, thyroid, detox. It can be done w/o drugs and w/o cycling into bad health.

If it is Temeral P, then I have a link that provides the possible side effects.

Other then that...here is a link about thyroid

Dog Hypothyroidism Diagnosis, Treatment and Prevention

Cheers...and I'm glad you and your pooch got some rest


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Good Morning!...you do not owe me any apologies, I was thinking I owed you as I may have come across as abrupt - I had a frustrating day yesterday, was maxed out, and the 'diagnosis' and only treatment being harsh shampoo's and steroids...BTW, tell me it's not Temeral P is it?
> 
> I cannot fathom why, with all the years of education and expence, Vets do not treat the underlying issue first and formost....just reminded me of how frustated I was and still am to get vets to address what needs to be addressed. I have actually been talked out of thyroid tests by 3 diff. vets. I will be getting a new vet soon, and I will INSIST on Jean Dodds doing it.
> 
> ...


This shampoo is called Keratolux. Supposed to dilute it and then bathe her once or twice a week. Hoping the bathing isn't long term, and not the pred either. Pretty sure I can wean her off the pred once the infection clears up. I can't imagine why this would have to be long term instead of as needed. Eczema and cradle cap in humans (similar issues) can be treated as it happens, and cradle cap can be cured.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Poor Moxy...

It sounds almost like what I went through last year. My liver was malfunctioning and depositing the bile acids in my skin instead of excreting them. The itching was so bad that I couldn't sleep, and I gouged deep wounds into my skin with my fingernails just from scratching.

So many people don't seem to realize how torturous intense itching can be. I'm so glad Moxy is getting a little relief.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

Anitsisqua said:


> Poor Moxy...
> 
> It sounds almost like what I went through last year. My liver was malfunctioning and depositing the bile acids in my skin instead of excreting them. The itching was so bad that I couldn't sleep, and I gouged deep wounds into my skin with my fingernails just from scratching.
> 
> So many people don't seem to realize how torturous intense itching can be. I'm so glad Moxy is getting a little relief.


I had that last year, too. During pregnancy. Intrahepatic Cholestasis of Pregnancy (ICP). Sorry you had to deal with that.  I know how miserable that is.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

Yeah, but I wasn't pregnant, and they thought mine was Primary Biliary Cirrhosis, but a biopsy didn't indicate that, and the symptoms eventually just...went away. The prevailing theory is autoimmune hepatitis that went in to remission.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"That said, one of the best all-purpose anti-fungal/anti-bacterial/anti-viral solutions we use here in rescue is Chlorhexadine"
Hi - the active ingredient to 
Chlorhexadine is benzalkonium chloride which is the active ingredient in Mane N Tail PRO-TECT , a product that I have mentioned many times (anti fungal , anti microbial).


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

carmspack said:


> "That said, one of the best all-purpose anti-fungal/anti-bacterial/anti-viral solutions we use here in rescue is Chlorhexadine"
> Hi - the active ingredient to
> Chlorhexadine is benzalkonium chloride which is the active ingredient in Mane N Tail PRO-TECT , a product that I have mentioned many times (anti fungal , anti microbial).


I will look for that product because this stuff seems so harsh. It says she will be extremely dandruffy and everything will be worse for the first 2 weeks...if that is possible.  

There has to be a more gentle way to manage the overproduction of oil. And its not overproduced as a reaction to anything, really. We have ruled out the main/common offenders. She is on a grain-free diet. Her kibble is made with salmon, pumpkin, and sweet potatoes. She gets raw treats like beef ribs, chicken backs/necks, livers, hearts, and gizzards. Plus, she get probiotics, vitamin C, and even coconut oil to help her skin. She actually prefers the coconut oil to the fish oil, which surprises me.

She slept great again last night, and she stinks far less today than she did 2 days ago.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

"This shampoo is called Keratolux. Supposed to dilute it and then bathe her once or twice a week. Hoping the bathing isn't long term, and not the pred either. Pretty sure I can wean her off the pred once the infection clears up. I can't imagine why this would have to be long term instead of as needed. Eczema and cradle cap in humans (similar issues) can be treated as it happens, and cradle cap can be cured. "



I have used that shampoo on my dog before. It's not bad at all. The active ingredient is salicylic acid, which is used in many many human skin care products, especially for acne. It's totally safe. I didn't use it for the same purpose, I only used it twice but he showed absolutely no effect other than being frisky after his bath.  

Also, I would agree with using as little and as low medicines as possible, but I have a chronic disease that I mostly manage with diet and exercise---but, I have had many tapers of prednisone. My mother has been on 5 mg of prednisone for years, with no ill effects. Of course, there is an age factor to consider with her, and a disease activity factor (which is worse--letting the disease progress and worsen, or risk a long term effect which at her age is not that important?) If used correctly, it is unlikely to cause damage or long-term issues. I dare say I'm in better health overall than the majority of the population and I've been on long-term heavy doses before, even of decadron. 

Don't let anyone make you feel bad for the route and decisions you take and make for your self or your dog. If you trust your vet, that goes a long way. Best wishes 

Ok, I "fixed" the quote. I had quoted the wrong post, lol


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> Also, I would agree with using as little and as low medicines as possible, but I have a chronic disease that I mostly manage with diet and exercise---but, I have had many tapers of prednisone. My mother has been on 5 mg of prednisone for years, with no ill effects. Of course, there is an age factor to consider with her, and a disease activity factor (which is worse--letting the disease progress and worsen, or risk a long term effect which at her age is not that important?) If used correctly, it is unlikely to cause damage or long-term issues. I dare say I'm in better health overall than the majority of the population and I've been on long-term heavy doses before, even of decadron.
> 
> *Don't let anyone make you feel bad for the route and decisions you take and make for your self or your dog. If you trust your vet, that goes a long way. Best wishes *


Bolded that last part because it is so important. I too have a chronic illness I've had to take pred off and on for many years. Horrible, horrible stuff and I try to avoid it whenever I can. I can't believe all the crap I get from people about try this healthy all natural/ try that healthy natural product...With the illness I have "all natural healthy" products can be deadly. It can literally send me into Anaphylactic shock. I have learned to bite my tongue and say thanks for the advice and ignore it. It amazes me how many people think a little bit of knowledge about healthy foods and supplements makes them an expert.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Moxy said:


> I will look for that product because this stuff seems so harsh. It says she will be extremely dandruffy and everything will be worse for the first 2 weeks...if that is possible.


Are you talking about Keratolux? It's only harsh in the sense that it strips oil out of the coat... which for most dogs would not be good, but for a dog that's producing too much oil, it could be just the ticket. 

What the shampoo does is to break down Keratin, which is what that dead skin and dandruff is made of. As it breaks down dead skin cells, you may actually see MORE dandruff at first because it is bringing up layers of dead skin that are sitting on the surface waiting to be sloughed off. But within a couple of weeks you should see improvement, if the shampoo works as hoped.

I've heard some folks swear by regular human dandruff shampoo for their dogs with flaky, oily skin conditions--so much so that I bought a bottle of Head & Shoulders to use at the grooming shop. Started using it on a regular once-a-month dog who has this condition, and I'll be darned if his skin didn't look better yesterday. Fewer flakes, no hot spots or sores. I normally use a Tar & Sulfur shampoo on him, which does seem to help the itching, but the Head & Shoulders really seemed to clear up the flakes.

But since your vet has prescribed Keratolux, I'd go that route first and see how she does after a couple of weeks.


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## Moxy (Aug 3, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Are you talking about Keratolux? It's only harsh in the sense that it strips oil out of the coat... which for most dogs would not be good, but for a dog that's producing too much oil, it could be just the ticket.
> 
> What the shampoo does is to break down Keratin, which is what that dead skin and dandruff is made of. As it breaks down dead skin cells, you may actually see MORE dandruff at first because it is bringing up layers of dead skin that are sitting on the surface waiting to be sloughed off. But within a couple of weeks you should see improvement, if the shampoo works as hoped.
> 
> ...


I have tried Head & Shoulders with limited success. I do love the smell, though. 

Thank you guys for the kind words and support. I trust this vet and have heard many positive things about him. His diagnosis made so much sense, and he actually offered me a true diagnosis instead of just treating the skin/ear infection and not treating the rest of the problem.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

Moxy said:


> After dealing with Moxy's chronic and recurrent skin infections for well over a year now, I finally got a diagnosis today after taking her to a new vet.
> 
> The vet told me that Moxy has a genetic problem where she overproduces oil on her skin, and the additional oil causes all the problems as she is allergic to her own oil.
> 
> ...



This is why it is important people purchase GSDs only from registered breeders that have breed surveyed their bitch/dog.

It is also more important that breeders listen to their clients. If a client comes back to them to advice their puppy (a puppy the breeder breed) has medical issues, don't take it personally - consider whether the medical issue is genetic or environmental or even a combination of both. If genetic - the breeder has a responsibility to not breed these ones again.

With breeders breeding responsibly and people buying from responsible breeders - we may be able to one day eliminate or at the very best reduce progeny with serious medical issues.

Wouldn't that be wonderful


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Harry and Lola said:


> This is why it is important people purchase GSDs only from registered breeders that have breed surveyed their bitch/dog.
> 
> It is also more important that breeders listen to their clients. If a client comes back to them to advice their puppy (a puppy the breeder breed) has medical issues, don't take it personally - consider whether the medical issue is genetic or environmental or even a combination of both. If genetic - the breeder has a responsibility to not breed these ones again.
> 
> ...


 This dog had a yeast issue. Vaccines and kibble related. The dog was eventually managed with essential oils - "Dottera" brand and very expensive but can be used topically and internally (unlike a lot of drug store E.O.'s).

Vets always blame genetics for unknown skin issues and may very well be...if the breeding bitch is on poor diet w/vaccines jabbed yearly as well as monthly pesticides, abx...and on and on.

Google "Epi-genetics"


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

My last GSD came from what was supposed to be a reputable breeder. Like so many others, I didn't find out that was not the case until we had a puppy we loved but was littered with problems. 
He too was always itchy, it never stopped. I know all to well how badly you want them to find comfort. Just one day even where they can sit, be relaxed and not scratch. My boy was on Venectyl-P every summer for several years. It was the only medication that gave him relief from horrid itching. There were days where he would be fine when we went to bed, only to find he had stripped the fur from his entire leg, leaving oozing massive wet hotspots. It was heartbreaking. I didn't know then what I know now and I won't ever know if a RAW diet and more natural approach would have had the same effect the prednisone did but I do know I, like you did the best I could to bring him comfort. I do believe his issues were genetic and each linked and partly the cause of each individual problem. He was EPI, skin allergies, repeated ear infections, reactive and more I just don't remember. When I notified his breeder of his EPI diagnosis (6 months old), she told me it was normal and he would outgrow it. I knew then that his breeder had failed him, not me but him as it was he that had to live through so many problems.

Please know your doing the best you can do for your dog. It sounds like you have tried soooo many things in your attempt to bring comfort to this dog. I know that feeling of desperation. Looking back on what I knew and tried, I wish I had tried a RAW diet with him. I am convinced it would have made a huge difference. I say this because when I was losing him to Hemangiosarcoma, he had stopped eating. I resorted to raw boneless chicken breasts and ohhh how he loved them. Even though we were losing him, he ate that raw chicken with gusto! His stool was normal without adding enzymes, and he did not itch for his last two weeks with us, all without the prednisone. 

Sorry for the rambling but reading through this brought back everything your feeling now. It is so hard to watch them be so miserable.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

This is a very old thread.


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