# "Onions, Hot Cars, Ponies, Panic & Greed"



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I thought about posting this in the 'leaving dogs in cars' thread but decided this took a much more macro view of how people perceive and react to pets/dogs in general now a days and may take the other thread off topic.

Has the pendulum swung too far to an overwrought bunch of do-gooders who cause more harm then good? I agree with the statement quoted below, it is becoming more difficult to have pets.

Interesting opinion/blog. 



> The animal world has become a magnet for people seeking to fill holes in their lives with the need to exploit fear and concern over animals. I know many people who no longer want to own a dog because it has become too expensive, too much a magnet for neurotic busybodies, or angry people who claim to speak for the rights of animals or ignorant politicians trying to look good by passing dumb laws, or too many vets who found found that fear and loathing can be turned into gold.


 Onions, Hot Cars, Ponies, Panic And Greed. Fear And Loathing In The Animal World | Bedlam Farm Journal


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Oooo, *Jon Katz*!

Those of you who are also involved in the border collie world probably have a zillion opinions on this man. I think this particular blog entry touches on some interesting points.

Thanks for opening this discussion, I'll be interested to see what everyone's thoughts are.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Interesting article.

I've observed that there is a note of hysteria in dog ownership, and I've likened it to the Mommy Wars (sorry if that offends any parents, but I do see parallels). Rampant judgment, lack of perspective, an impossible gold standard.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I did enjoy reading the article. I wonder who this will bring into the discussion. I grew up with lots of animals, not exactly a farm but a big place with room for a horse, pony, chickens, ducks, a rabbit, dogs, and cats. Of course there were the little guys, hamsters, guinea pigs, etc. None of my animals ever died of neglect or eating something they shouldn't. I wonder if people now are more careless or more diligent. The argument could swing either way. Or, maybe some are more paranoid due to the acts of others. I will continue to treat my animals with kindness, correct health care, and love them as much as I can until the day they go to the Bridge. When someone comes on a forum asking for temporary help until they can get to a vet I will offer my opinions, but if the person is just trying to avoid going to the vet when they actually should they will also get my opinion. Not sure if social media is helping or hindering.


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## amburger16 (May 22, 2015)

Great read! Its just like how people treat there kids now.. Schools in my area are no longer allowed swing sets because they are "dangerous"


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

John Katz writes some excellent blogs, this one included.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I have been thinking this for years, and even venting this exact sentiment to my friends LOL ... the world is going to heck in a hand basket. 

I find it very sad actually because it does take away a lot of the joy and fun of having a pet. 

I know when I walk Kyleigh on hot days - and we go in the evening, around the block, I have water, we walk slow, in the shade ... I ALWAYS have someone comment ... aww your poor dog ... really? JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!

Or, when it's really really cold (-40) and I'm freezing my butt off and everyone's concerned about my LONG COAT GSD who is in HEAVEN ... hey ... what about me? The human?????


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Fun story: My late pit bull was never the healthiest dog. Bad breeding and very poor early care left him with various skin and dental issues for most of his adult life. His senior years hit him hard, cognitive impairment, congestive heart failure, degenerative myelopathy, incontience, arthritis... he was a hot mess. When the vet diagnosed him with the big C, I opted for palliative/hospice care. 

I knew my time with him was short, and so I made a big effort to make his last days as awesome for him as possible. His favorite place in the world had always been the park near downtown. So every evening until he was ready to cross the bridge I would help him into the car and we would drive to the park. Where I would carry him to the pond so he could watch the ducks and geese. On the way to the park I would stop by arbys and get him a jr roast beef. I also brought along peanut butter and oreos. After he had his fill of bird watching, I would hand feed him bits of the sandwich and oreos dipped in peanut butter. Towards the end when his appetite waned that was the ONLY thing I could get him to eat. 

Unfortunately for me, this particular park is heavy with foot traffic. Multiple times people would come up and chastise me for what I was doing. 

"You should never carry a dog. You need to make him walk so he knows who is boss"

"OMG! DON'T GIVE HIM OREOS! Don't you know chocolate can KILL dogs!??!"

"People food is really bad for dogs." 

"You are going to make your dog sick! Those cookies are poison to dogs!"

Etc, etc

It got me SO MAD! Here I was trying to enjoy the last visit to the park with my best friend of the past decade and I had to deal with these idiots who knew how to care for my dog better then me. I wanted to chew them out. Yell at them. Tell them to F off. How was I supposed to explain that my dog was ALREADY dying and the only thing keeping his strength up enough for him to enjoy his last days were those deadly deadly cookies? Of course I couldn't do any of this, not even for social graces but because my Chisel had always been very intunned with my emotions. I had to put on a brave face and stay happy for him. 

I guess the flabbergasted look on their face, when I said in a happy chipper voice "Yes! I know chocolate can be deadly to dogs", while handing the old man another cookie, was satisfying enough. 

Loved that blog post.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

voodoolamb said:


> Fun story: My late pit bull was never the healthiest dog. Bad breeding and very poor early care left him with various skin and dental issues for most of his adult life. His senior years hit him hard, cognitive impairment, congestive heart failure, degenerative myelopathy, incontience, arthritis... he was a hot mess. When the vet diagnosed him with the big C, I opted for palliative/hospice care.
> 
> I knew my time with him was short, and so I made a big effort to make his last days as awesome for him as possible. His favorite place in the world had always been the park near downtown. So every evening until he was ready to cross the bridge I would help him into the car and we would drive to the park. Where I would carry him to the pond so he could watch the ducks and geese. On the way to the park I would stop by arbys and get him a jr roast beef. I also brought along peanut butter and oreos. After he had his fill of bird watching, I would hand feed him bits of the sandwich and oreos dipped in peanut butter. Towards the end when his appetite waned that was the ONLY thing I could get him to eat.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry you had to deal with judgemental people when you were already dealing with knowing you were going to lose your buddy.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

GypsyGhost said:


> I'm so sorry you had to deal with judgemental people when you were already dealing with knowing you were going to lose your buddy.


awww thank you! Truth is I would have taken 1000s of those judgemental comments just to see the way that my being such a bad, horrible, irresponsible pet owner perked the old man up! But yeah, it would have been way easier if they would have just left us alone. 

I still miss my boy. The new pup has taken to sleeping in what was Chisel's spot. That helps with that empty there-should-be-a-dog there feeling. For weeks I would absent mindedly reach for an ear rub. Now there is an ear to rub 

Well an ear to rub followed by sharp little teeth.


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## jschrest (Jun 16, 2015)

Awesome article, and very true. I myself am guilty of the over vetting hysteria. Heck, my vets office told me to stop calling every time one of the pups had diarrhea. It definitely helps to put things back into perspective for me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I couldn't read the article yet, but am looking forward to doing so. Not sure what Mommy Wars are all about, but people are on high hysteria with children too. When I was six, when I was, eight, when I was ten -- yes I lived in a major city, yes there were child molesters, yes kids did get murdered sometimes, but we were allowed to run and play and do a million things our parents never knew about because we spent a LOT of time on our own. And that was good. Now if you leave two eight year olds in your car where you can see them, in ok weather while you run into a fedX office, watching your car the whole time, and are done in 2.3 minutes, someone WILL call the police on you. It is crazy. It is out of hand. I worry about how this generation of children will grow up without being able to take themselves to the park or to the store or whatever.

And it is just as crazy with dogs, and dog-people. Dog people sometimes would be perfectly ok with a child living in conditions that they would call the police on if a dog was in the same condition. Sometimes we do have to mind others' business when someone is clearly unable to speak for or protect themselves. But we have to have common sense about it. A three year old is not going to die from getting a spank on the butt in the grocery store when she is throwing a tantrum. Dogs do die in hot cars, but most dogs in cars are not in any danger at all, and we have to be able to assess a situation correctly.

After having the cops threatening to arrest me for leaving a dog in my car in 50 degree temperature with the back open because it was too cold, I am not so sure that calling the police in on things will add a little sanity to a situation. Some of them may be as insane as the nutcases who are calling them. 

It is funny, we have a new business here that does drug testing in the building. There is a sign that clearly tells these people to go to floor 2R. They get the 2, they do. They all miss the R. All of them. Are so many people wacked out on drugs or something these days that common sense and attention to details is just gone?

For years I have wondered if it is was the dogs or an inability of people these days to raise a puppy. Have people just lost the knack? It is rarely for lack of trying. Often it is from trying to hard, or over-thinking everything. I wish people could relax and think about things before jumping into something.


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

This article sums up all my thoughts on the subject, but articulated better than I ever could have done. 
Yes, I'm glad people are aware of dangers and are watching out for animals (and people) that need help. But it is ridiculous that I have to fear leaving my dogs in my vehicle with the windows down while I run into a coffee shop to pee and grab a coffee. That I can't take my dogs with me on errands because I fear having a screaming match with some do-gooder in the parking lot. That, when I post pictures to facebook, I actually try to choose the pictures that you don't see the pinch collar or choke chain the dog is wearing. I could go on and on about these kinds of things.
Dogs have survived for years living great lives, having the odd hot dog with all the fixings (including mustard, which has, you got it, ONIONS in it). Gah, what am I doing, the article said it all and I can't say it any better.
Thank you for posting that link, I loved it!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Mikelia said:


> This article sums up all my thoughts on the subject, but articulated better than I ever could have done.


Absolutely agree!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

voodoolamb said:


> Fun story: My late pit bull was never the healthiest dog. Bad breeding and very poor early care left him with various skin and dental issues for most of his adult life. His senior years hit him hard, cognitive impairment, congestive heart failure, degenerative myelopathy, incontience, arthritis... he was a hot mess. When the vet diagnosed him with the big C, I opted for palliative/hospice care.
> 
> I knew my time with him was short, and so I made a big effort to make his last days as awesome for him as possible. His favorite place in the world had always been the park near downtown. So every evening until he was ready to cross the bridge I would help him into the car and we would drive to the park. Where I would carry him to the pond so he could watch the ducks and geese. On the way to the park I would stop by arbys and get him a jr roast beef. I also brought along peanut butter and oreos. After he had his fill of bird watching, I would hand feed him bits of the sandwich and oreos dipped in peanut butter. Towards the end when his appetite waned that was the ONLY thing I could get him to eat.
> 
> ...



I love that you did this for your dog. My oldest will be 11. She is sleeping a lot more and I do whatever I can to keep her active, but she gets tired. Tonite I gave her some steak and watermelon. She loves hot Cheetos and tomorrow she will have some of those. Anything to see that spark in her eyes....I love her so much and she has been by my side for 10 years, anything she wants is hers, it's the least I can do for her.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

llombardo said:


> I love that you did this for your dog. My oldest will be 11. She is sleeping a lot more and I do whatever I can to keep her active, but she gets tired. Tonite I gave her some steak and watermelon. She loves hot Cheetos and tomorrow she will have some of those. Anything to see that spark in her eyes....I love her so much and she has been by my side for 10 years, anything she wants is hers, it's the least I can do for her.


Awww give your girl a cheeto for me  Senior dogs are special and deserve special treatment IMHO 

I can relate to the doing what you can to keep them active. I lost my chisel just a few months ago and I have a 15 year old now. It's especially tough that my boy has cataracts and his losing his hearing as well. One really fun thing I do with him is making sent trails out in the yard that leads to a favorite treat. I use the scents they use for hunting. He could sit there and sniff those all day. He just goes along at his own pace, depending on how he's feeling that day it can be anywhere from a shuffle to a lope. It's exciting enough that it does keep him moving plus it stimulates his mind too. Just something small I can do to keep him happy


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## bob_barker (Dec 31, 2013)

Love this article!!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

It is a good article, glad you guys agree! 

I think we've tackled this cultural trend here in bits and pieces with our discussions about breeding regs, use of prong collars, being able to take dogs to public places ect. 

Anne (Vandal) really opened my eyes a few years ago where on this site when she explained how the big box pet stores really push this pets are kids to sell more stuff.

They are leveraging off the mommy wars meme too, I agree. My observations lead me to believe that social media feeds the hysteria loop. I dropped out of a local facebook group because it was simply too insane. People making comments like breeders should be put in jail and such.

Make people feel guilty = making more money. 

The problem is it comes at a cost. Disempowered dog owners who are chastised for not running to the vet every time their dog hacks up a bit of grass it ate. Disempowered pet owners who can't learn how to use training tools like prongs or e collars properly because they are labeled 'cruel' or 'impatient' or 'lazy'. Not to mention the monetary aspect, people can't afford to run to the vet or pay the expensive 'behaviorist' over and over and over. 

It's brewing to be the perfect self defeating storm against dog ownership. 

It's one thing to treat animals humanely, food, water, shelter don't beat them with a 2 x 4. Yet the pendulum has swung too far and it truly is making dog ownership a hardship.

Having said, above, that social media feeds the hysteria, it can be used to push back too. IMO the best thing we can do is share articles like this and start taking a stand.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> They are leveraging off the mommy wars meme too, I agree. My observations lead me to believe that social media feeds the hysteria loop. I dropped out of a local facebook group because it was simply too insane. People making comments like breeders should be put in jail and such.
> 
> Make people feel guilty = making more money.
> 
> The problem is it comes at a cost. Disempowered dog owners who are chastised for not running to the vet every time their dog hacks up a bit of grass it ate. Disempowered pet owners who can't learn how to use training tools like prongs or e collars properly because they are labeled 'cruel' or 'impatient' or 'lazy'. Not to mention the monetary aspect, people can't afford to run to the vet or pay the expensive 'behaviorist' over and over and over.


And I admit it: I buy in. My dog has a lot of material advantages and I spend a lot on her care, training, and entertainment. She eats good food and gets good vet care, we train weekly and I hope to expand into other activities besides obedience, she has regular trips to the groomer as needed, her toy collection is pretty awesome (not one but two toy baskets filled with stuffed animals, tug toys, balls, etc), basically she has the best of everything. We do it because we can and want to, but hopefully nobody takes that as an implicit judgment on what they choose to do or not do. 

I'm very aware that my dog has a higher standard of living than many, many human children. I've been told before that this is wrong and skewed and super messed up. And on a societal level, I agree that there's something wrong with a nation in which some people are comfortable enough for a dog to live so well and others can't provide the basics for their kids. On a micro level, I don't think it's wrong; I don't feel I have any moral obligation to provide less for my dog and more to needy children. But I get where those people were coming from and I can see it being part of the issue, going hand in hand with the pressure and norm to treat dogs (or cats) as children and prioritize them as such.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

WateryTart said:


> And I admit it: I buy in. My dog has a lot of material advantages and I spend a lot on her care, training, and entertainment. She eats good food and gets good vet care, we train weekly and I hope to expand into other activities besides obedience, she has regular trips to the groomer as needed, her toy collection is pretty awesome (not one but two toy baskets filled with stuffed animals, tug toys, balls, etc), basically she has the best of everything. We do it because we can and want to, but hopefully nobody takes that as an implicit judgment on what they choose to do or not do.
> 
> I'm very aware that my dog has a higher standard of living than many, many human children. I've been told before that this is wrong and skewed and super messed up. And on a societal level, I agree that there's something wrong with a nation in which some people are comfortable enough for a dog to live so well and others can't provide the basics for their kids. On a micro level, I don't think it's wrong; I don't feel I have any moral obligation to provide less for my dog and more to needy children. But I get where those people were coming from and I can see it being part of the issue, going hand in hand with the pressure and norm to treat dogs (or cats) as children and prioritize them as such.


I don't think that it is wrong for someone to use a regular dinner dish each day for their dog's meal, to give them their own bed, in a room for just them, to take them to doggy day care, and so forth. What is wrong is when the people that do all of that point their fingers at people who have a dog, and suggest that they do not love their dog enough, they are not providing for the dog properly, because they are not using a doggy day care, they do not have a room set aside for their dog with an expensive cushy dog bed, they do not provide a regular dinner dish, washed each day in the dishwasher and so forth. 

There was a movement here that I hope died, but am not sure that wanted to switch the terminology from dog ownership to dog guardianship -- one step further than the adoption craze. You can argue that it is all semantics, but the semantics can change how people view their critters, other people's critters, and the ideology of owning/adopting/purchasing/rescuing/guardianship.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

And I think where I was trying to go is that even though no, it's not wrong despite what some people would say, the potential unintended consequence is that we kind of perpetuate making it the norm. I know I'm not wording this well, but if an action is perceived by others to make any kind of statement, pet owners like me (and this is the norm of pet ownership for many people I know) might be unintentionally feeding the idea that you must do XYZ and spend money on the best ABC to be good owners.

If that makes any sense. And I'm not taking personal responsibility for that. But I could see it being a side consequence when taken at the collective level.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

The "buy in" is if you are part of the cultural phenomenon of judging others to the extreme. 

How well you treat your dogs is a personal choice, to which you are very much entitled. 

What people are not entitled to do is accuse (for example) a friend of mine who has three hunting Brittanys of being a terrible or abusive dog owner. The dogs are kenneled in spotless out door runs with insulated, top of the line dog houses, all situated in the shade. They are fed good food, given clean water daily and vetted yearly. The kennels are kept spotless and the dogs are very happy doing what they were bred to do, bird hunting with their 'master'. 

They do not have a toy box, they do not stay in the AC all day, they aren't thought of as 'fur kids'.

In some ways these dogs are much happier then many house dogs I run across. The problem is when dogs kept like this are considered 'abused' by many people.

Let me be REALLY CLEAR this is *NOT* slam against your care of your dogs. Rather it's meant generally, illustratively, how some people (again in general NOT you personally) would say those hunting dogs are 'abused'. 

That's the problem, those people, groups of people who demand, harass and otherwise try to force ALL dog owners to comply with how they think dogs should be cared for. They utilize peer pressure, cultural influence and sometimes via (as the article points out) legislation.

Anyone who can afford and wants to provide a life for their dogs/animals as you describe certainly is free to and IMO should not feel guilty. The line is crossed when unrealistic expectations are forced on others through the above mentioned methods. That's the problem. 

Your post is very thoughtful, I too ponder the aspect of how well many animals are cared for in the West, when many who are very poor here go without, or in third world countries many humans go without. That's a different topic though. That is about distribution of wealth rather than keeping a balance with animal welfare issues in the U.S.




WateryTart said:


> *And I admit it: I buy in*. My dog has a lot of material advantages and I spend a lot on her care, training, and entertainment. She eats good food and gets good vet care, we train weekly and I hope to expand into other activities besides obedience, she has regular trips to the groomer as needed, her toy collection is pretty awesome (not one but two toy baskets filled with stuffed animals, tug toys, balls, etc), basically she has the best of everything. We do it because we can and want to, but hopefully nobody takes that as an implicit judgment on what they choose to do or not do.
> 
> I'm very aware that my dog has a higher standard of living than many, many human children. I've been told before that this is wrong and skewed and super messed up. And on a societal level, I agree that there's something wrong with a nation in which some people are comfortable enough for a dog to live so well and others can't provide the basics for their kids. On a micro level, I don't think it's wrong; I don't feel I have any moral obligation to provide less for my dog and more to needy children. But I get where those people were coming from and I can see it being part of the issue, going hand in hand with the pressure and norm to treat dogs (or cats) as children and prioritize them as such.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

p.s. I was composing my post when you posted (#21) above. 



> But I could see it being *a side consequence when taken at the collective level.*


 Yup.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> It is a good article, glad you guys agree!
> 
> I think we've tackled this cultural trend here in bits and pieces with our discussions about breeding regs, use of prong collars, being able to take dogs to public places ect.
> 
> ...




Man, Gwen that was an awesome rant !


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

LOL! Thanks Carmen, I think. 

It's not meant as a rant though. hehehe. 

I do try to come across in a more logical tone. 

Live long and prosper my friend.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Most of this has to do with how opinions are shared today. Most people ask opinions from either complete strangers or “fringe friends” on Facebook. It’s much easier to say something controversial and borderline rude over the internet on a forum or even on Facebook than it is in person. On top of that, most people we speak with in person are probably important enough to us that we might think twice about sharing an opinion that might cause us to lose that relationship. On Facebook or on a forum, most of us don’t really care if we “lose” that relationship as there really isn’t one in the first place.

It’s always easy to call someone out with a keyboard…most people won’t say a word in person though (I have firsthand experience with that).


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> The "buy in" is if you are part of the cultural phenomenon of judging others to the extreme.
> 
> How well you treat your dogs is a personal choice, to which you are very much entitled.
> 
> ...


Oh my goodness, no I didn't take your post as a slam!

I was thinking out loud (kind of) and didn't really complete where I was trying to go. I'm still not sure it makes sense outside of my own head. But I think there are the active, purposeful contributors to the problem - the people who are out there trying to force everyone into a mold - and then those who happen to follow the actors' guidelines for reasons of their own, who might at the very least not be helping matters, if that makes any sense.

For what it's worth, it sounds like those Brittanys live the dream. If you are a Brittany.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Cool.  

Yup!

I found your post very interesting too. I've pondered that side of the equation too, human welfare, animal welfare.

Yup, happy Britannys. He runs them and hunts them often and they are wonderful dogs. 




WateryTart said:


> Oh my goodness, no I didn't take your post as a slam!
> 
> I was thinking out loud (kind of) and didn't really complete where I was trying to go. I'm still not sure it makes sense outside of my own head. But I think there are the active, purposeful contributors to the problem - the people who are out there trying to force everyone into a mold - and then those who happen to follow the actors' guidelines for reasons of their own, who might at the very least not be helping matters, if that makes any sense.
> 
> For what it's worth, it sounds like those Brittanys live the dream. If you are a Brittany.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

I've had this happen to me. I put my dogs in the outside kennel in the mornings. They have shade and a good supply of water. When it started to get hot out I'd bring them in to the air conditioning. I have the animal control guy come over 3 or 4 different times. 3 times they were already in the house. The 4th time he caught me at home. I let him in to my house to see that, yes when I was at work they were kenneled. ( If I didn't, they would have torn the house to shreds chasing the cats.) He also saw I had bought a window air conditioner just for the dogs on the porch. He stopped bothering me after that. I liked the article. It is so true. I posted a while back about facts behind the movie of the Shawshank Redeption where the cruelty to animal people got all up in arms about a maggot that they fed to a bird was cruelty. Really? A maggot?


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