# Good books on Dog training



## worldtraveler (Nov 4, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. Since I don't have any experience with Dogs and my work schedule is currently too crazy to volunteer at a shelter, I was looking to see if I could get some recommendations on some good books on dog training.

Thanks in advance.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Sheila Booth: Purely Positive Training; Companion to Competetion

Stuff by Pat Miller

Whole Dog Journal (good monthly for training and health issues).


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I have a variety of books I like and use but they are not all Positive training, so I'm not going to post. I don't want to defend my choices. The trainers I like best use very limited food rewards.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...c/588234-good-information-training-books.html

enter dog training books into the search bar just about the double brown lines on the top of this page and several threads will appear


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

LuvShepherds said:


> I have a variety of books I like and use but they are not all Positive training, so I'm not going to post. I don't want to defend my choices. The trainers I like best use very limited food rewards.


Would Konrad Most happen to be one of the trainers? He applied instinctive training , use of prey drive long before Raiser , behaviourial shaping , either building or extinquishing , long before Skinner came on the scene with his operant conditioning .


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I always recommend Team Dog by Mike Ritland. He has a good way of looking at the comprehensive picture. Not a lot of specifics but a good all around book for the protection breeds.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

We have a sub-forum for that, with a sticky thread about favorite books: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-recommendation-please-add-your-favorite.html


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## worldtraveler (Nov 4, 2015)

Thanks for the reccomendations. I'll look over the sticky thread too and see what I can find there too.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Controlled aggression by Bradshaw
Dog training with the touch By Rose 
The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell or anything else by her
Schutzhund Obedience Training in Drive by Booth & Dildei
Schutzhund: Theory and Training Methods (Howell reference books) by Susan Barwig
The Protection dog by Raiser


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## deacon (Sep 5, 2011)

Any of Koehlers writings


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I've changed my mind. For a new puppy, I recommend the books by The Monks of New Skete if you can find the newest versions of their books, in the past they advocated harsh treatment but they no longer do so. The Art of Raising a Puppy and How to be your Dog's Best Friend contain good information on early development and socialization along with training.

Koehler advocates very harsh training which isn't used anymore by anyone, but if you can even find one of his books, a little of his technique is good. He teaches how to use a long leash effectively for heeling. You have to figure out what not to do, like hanging a dog. That is stupid and dangerous.


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## champiro (Jan 24, 2016)

Whether you’re interested in teaching your dog basic commands, agility tricks, hunting techniques or manners, there are plenty of books available. Try reading any of these: Training Books


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

LuvShepherds;7436234
Koehler advocates very harsh training which isn't used anymore by anyone said:


> Oh there's people out there that still do it.


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## deacon (Sep 5, 2011)

Show me any technique (OBEDIENCE) that have earned more obedience titles? I don't agree with a lot of his non obedience techniques but nowhere in his (obedience) training does he use harsh techniques.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Deacon,
While Koehler was used by a lot of folks for a long time and was effective, times have changed and methods have evolved. If Bill Koehler was alive today and still training dogs, I'm sure he would adapt some of his methods. Today techniques have evolved that use less much less force and compulsion, achieve better results, will work for any dog and create a trust and bond that will last. 

I doubt you will find few if any achieving OB titles with his techniques today. I have read his books, used his methods in the past, but not so much anymore. Actually, not in about 20 years. 

Deacon, two days ago I got my new Police K-9. A 3 year old KNPV titled Dutch Shepherd. He was tested and imported by a SF team and wasn't adapting well to multiple handlers. I was told the dog is "edgy," and has already bitten 3 handlers / trainers. I was warned to not use a prong as corrections will make him come up the leash. I am still working my Patrol / Narcotics dog until I train and certify this dog. No doubt this dog is strong and has some issues, like "loading up" into the car. I almost had to walk home with him after I took him out for a break at a field. He flat out refused to get back in the car, I ran out of treats and he was twisting, jumping flipping and trying to back out of his collar. I had two lines on him and was trying to pull him in the car. I decided to stop, slow down and think about it. I got up my nerve and accepted the inevitable bite that I thought was coming. I mumbled a few choice words under my breath and calmly grabbed him and tossed him in the car. He eats every meal in the car, we sit and I feed him treats in the car. I have it down to about 3 minutes to get him in the car with out a fight and I haven't been bitten yet. We are bonding nicely and I really like this dog. He is going to be a super Police dog. He is high driven and very civil, he really brings it. My goal is some much needed control and absolute obedience. Koehler's methods would get me tore up for sure. I'm not fighting with this dog, he has enough drive for 2 malinois and I'm using that to my advantage. 

For the OP a very good book is "Purely Positive Training" by Sheila Booth.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Slamdunc said:


> Deacon,
> While Koehler was used by a lot of folks for a long time and was effective, times have changed and methods have evolved. If Bill Koehler was alive today and still training dogs, I'm sure he would adapt some of his methods. Today techniques have evolved that use less much less force and compulsion, achieve better results, will work for any dog and create a trust and bond that will last.
> 
> I doubt you will find few if any achieving OB titles with his techniques today. I have read his books, used his methods in the past, but not so much anymore. Actually, not in about 20 years.
> ...


I don't want to derail this thread, but would love for you to start a thread about this....and follow your progress with him in the thread. Why do you think he flips out about being loaded into the vehicle?
And I agree, Sheila Booths book is one I recommend, it has an excellent puppy raising chapter. 
I also recommend Suzanne Clothiers books and articles, it is not so much her training protocol, but her view of the relationship that the dog and owner share. If you have a good relationship, understanding the dogs mindset, then training comes much easier.
Suzanne Clothier | Relationship Centered Dog Training by Suzanne Clothier


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

onyx'girl said:


> I don't want to derail this thread, but would love for you to start a thread about this....and follow your progress with him in the thread. Why do you think he flips out about being loaded into the vehicle?
> And I agree, Sheila Booths book is one I recommend, it has an excellent puppy raising chapter.
> I also recommend Suzanne Clothiers books and articles, it is not so much her training protocol, but her view of the relationship that the dog and owner share. If you have a good relationship, understanding the dogs mindset, then training comes much easier.
> Suzanne Clothier | Relationship Centered Dog Training by Suzanne Clothier


I'm not sure exactly what the issue with the car is? He was like that with the Military trainers that I got him from. Initially, he was very anxious about getting in the car. I'm not sure if it was because he didn't want to be put up and not working? I think he enjoys being out and doesn't want to go back in the "box." Keep in mind he was tested and purchased in Holland in Nov. He is an adult dog. I can only guess that something happened, plane ride here could have been traumatic, I just don't know. The dog has no environmental issues and is ready and willing to work. I suppose what happened doesn't matter anymore, now it's simply about fixing it. In two days he is no longer anxious about getting in the car, he doesn't fight like he initially did. He is much calmer now, but still stubborn. He is "E collar conditioned" and has been worked on the E collar. I have one on him, just in case I need to correct him. The other trainers would use the "low level stim" method to work him and he responds. I'm not a fan of this, as the stim must be uncomfortable and cause some level of discomfort for it to work. I am not going to stim the dog to "make him do things" but it would sure take a lot less time to put him in the car. Regardless, of what some think, if "low level stim" was pleasurable to a dog, then the dog would have no need to perform to turn it off. I am trying to start slowely and build a nice bond with this dog. So far, we get along great and he is playful, affectionate and charming with me. He is a fun dog to be around, one on one. He definitely is sharp and I can see how serious he is going to be in protection work and on the street. A dog that I will need to be extremely careful with around citizens and other Officers. I am learning the dog and we have team training on Wednesday and two other PD's K-9 units are coming out. That will be the day when I see what this dog is all about. 

Sorry, to take this thread off course. Im not one to start new threads, I rarely ever do, especially about one of my dogs. Maybe, once I get some good pictures I will post them in a thread. He is a good looking dog.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Mrs.P said:


> Controlled aggression by Bradshaw
> 
> Schutzhund Obedience Training in Drive by Booth & Dildei



I second these two.


Jim, I'd love to hear more about this dog.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

OP, since you are asking specifically about this because you volunteer at a shelter, I'm guessing you want to work specifically with adoptable dogs there perhaps? If that's so, the books people are recommending about positive training, and behavior (the Patricia McConnell stuff) is _fantastic _in a shelter environment, where someone else has already evaluated the safety of the dog before it went into the adoption program. Those tend to be nicest-of-the-nice temperaments at high-kill shelters, if someone good is doing the evaluating.

However...if someone not-so-good is doing the evaluating, or volunteers get to interact with dogs to rehab dogs who haven't yet made it into the adoption program, and you'll be working with shy, shut down, or fearful dogs, I would specifically look at some behavioral rehab books rather than just training books.

-Pat Miller's _Play with your Dog _is a manual on teaching play-deprived dogs to learn to play again -- that helps them connect with humans and relax, all of of which makes shelter dogs more adoptable

-Patricia McConnell's booklets _Love Has No Age Limit _(about adult rescue dogs) and _Cautious Canine _(about shy, fearful dogs) have great suggestions that are easy to bring into a shelter -- I would start with her book _The Other End of the Leash, _as it will make you more cognizant of your own body language in the shelter.

Any books on "calming signals" are also definitely worthwhile -- I use them in shelters with spooky dogs all the time when I'm trying to establish trust with a dog I'm unsure about. They're a hugely important skill in shelter volunteering -- especially when busy shelter staff are moving too fast and scaring traumatized dogs unintentionally. Having the ability to slow down and silently tell the dog it's safe in a way it intuitively understands can make a big difference to them. I often find that once I've spent time doing this, the dogs relax and don't want to leave my side.

For working with shelter dogs, I would also look at investing in the DVDs by Sarah Kalnajs - esp. "the Language of Dogs," and "Am I Safe?" The Language of Dogs will make you a vastly better reader of subtle, dangerous "warning signs" in dogs that aren't obvious to most humans, but need to become very obvious to shelter volunteers.

All of this stuff will also make you more fluent in "speaking dog" at home when you get your own dog too.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Magwart,
Very interesting post, I am going to check out some of those books. 

Mycobraracr,
*Jim, I'd love to hear more about this dog.*

I must say he is a very cool dog and I really like him. I am very fortunate to have gotten a dog of this quality. He originally sold for almost double of what my dept pays for dogs. He is a very high end dog that needs one, strong handler. He is a beast, but we are getting along great. I can see how some of his behaviors would make a new handler apprehensive. He moves fast, circles like a shark and keeps moving. He tends to be voracious for a toy and will start to bark pretty vigorously if he can't get to one or if you are holding it. He does not take corrections from strangers and has nailed handlers for that, that is why he was available to me. I'm taking it slow, bonding and gaining his trust and affection. I'm going to use my brains and not brawn to work this dog. He is the exactly the dog that you want to have when things go a little sideways. For two days things are going as expected, maybe even a little better.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Magwart said:


> OP, since you are asking specifically about this because you volunteer at a shelter, I'm guessing you want to work specifically with adoptable dogs there perhaps? If that's so, the books people are recommending about positive training, and behavior (the Patricia McConnell stuff) is _fantastic _in a shelter environment, where someone else has already evaluated the safety of the dog before it went into the adoption program. Those tend to be nicest-of-the-nice temperaments at high-kill shelters, if someone good is doing the evaluating.
> 
> However...if someone not-so-good is doing the evaluating, or volunteers get to interact with dogs to rehab dogs who haven't yet made it into the adoption program, and you'll be working with shy, shut down, or fearful dogs, I would specifically look at some behavioral rehab books rather than just training books.
> 
> ...


Magwart, I have most of the books you mentioned - they have been very helpful for me. I am strictly a pet owner, and these books really emphasize the bond and relationship apects of owning a dog, not just how to train.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Slamdunc said:


> Magwart,
> Very interesting post, I am going to check out some of those books.
> 
> Mycobraracr,
> ...


 To Jim, Yikes!  It sounds as though your dog is in the right hands! Keep us updated.


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## deacon (Sep 5, 2011)

Have to disagree Slam he taught his method all the way up to his death. I talked to him on a few occasions and even then he was not that happy with some of the methods being taught then. There are thousands still using his method today. I for one deviate very little if at all from the method depending on the dog and will put his method up against any of the show boat methods taught today.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

deacon said:


> Have to disagree Slam he taught his method all the way up to his death. I talked to him on a few occasions and even then he was not that happy with some of the methods being taught then. There are thousands still using his method today. I for one deviate very little if at all from the method depending on the dog and will put his method up against any of the show boat methods taught today.


There are many ways to go from NY to California. If your methods are getting you there with good results, then stick with it.


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## deacon (Sep 5, 2011)

Agreed!! I just get so ticked off when the critics most whom have never read his obedience book call his methods either harsh or yank & crank when it is far from either!


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

LuvShepherds said:


> * Koehler advocates very harsh training which isn't used anymore by anyone, * but if you can even find one of his books, * a little of his technique is good. * He teaches how to use a long leash effectively for heeling. You have to figure out what not to do, like * hanging a dog. * That is stupid and dangerous.


Would I be correct in guessing that you have not read Koehler's books? NONE of his OB methods are _"harsh training."_ and they are being used today by MANY people who train for competition OB. 

If you use _"a little of his technique,"_ you are NOT using the KMODT, (Koehler Method of Dog Training). 

Koehler advocated _"hanging a dog"_ as a self−defense measure, not for OB training. It's probably the safest technique in that situation for both handler and dog.


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

Slamdunc said:


> While Koehler was used by a lot of folks for a long time and was effective, times have changed and methods have evolved. * If Bill Koehler was alive today and still training dogs, I'm sure he would adapt some of his methods. *


You'd be wrong. His techniques are alive and well today. They're being taught AS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN by many of his followers. Tony Ancheta The Koehler Method of Dog Training, koehlerdogtraining.com Home has a list of Koehler trainers on his site. Most of today's trainers cobble together a mix of methods/tools and go off on their own, with mixed results. They're not willing to adhere to a step−by−step program written by someone else. 



Slamdunc said:


> Today techniques have evolved that use less much less force and compulsion, achieve better results, will work for any dog and create a trust and bond that will last.


Bill's classes then AND TODAY allow one to literally walk off the training field and onto a competition ring and qualify in the appropriate class. * Can you tell us of someone else's classes that give that degree of reliability? * 

The methods _"create a trust and bond that will last"_ far better than methods that have the owner being a treat dispenser. 



Slamdunc said:


> I doubt you will find few if any achieving OB titles with his techniques today.


You could not be more wrong. MANY top competitors in AKC OB have used his methods and are still using them today. I'm on several lists devoted to that topic, and it's a very popular training method with those folks. *But if you have some contrary evidence, I'll be happy to look at it. Do you have such evidence? * 



Slamdunc said:


> I have read his books, * used his methods * in the past, but not so much anymore. Actually, not in about 20 years.


I'd be willing to bet that you did not use the KMODT. I'd be willing to bet that you used "Koehler−like" methods. In order to say that you used the KMODT you must follow his teaching methods completely, leaving nothing out and including nothing that he didn't write about, from start to finish. Anything else is NOT the KMODT. 



Slamdunc said:


> Deacon, two days ago I got my new Police K-9. A 3 year old KNPV titled Dutch Shepherd. He was tested and imported by a SF team and wasn't adapting well to multiple handlers. I was told the dog is "edgy," and has already bitten 3 handlers / trainers. I was warned to not use a prong as corrections will make him come up the leash. I am still working my Patrol / Narcotics dog until I train and certify this dog. No doubt this dog is strong and has some issues, like "loading up" into the car. I almost had to walk home with him after I took him out for a break at a field. He flat out refused to get back in the car, I ran out of treats and he was twisting, jumping flipping and trying to back out of his collar. I had two lines on him and was trying to pull him in the car. I decided to stop, slow down and think about it. I got up my nerve and accepted the inevitable bite that I thought was coming. * I mumbled a few choice words under my breath and calmly grabbed him and tossed him in the car. *


Sounds pretty harsh. Doesn't sound as if it's a good technique to _"create a trust and bond that will last."_ * How about putting a long line through the passenger−back window and then just gently pulling him into the car? * That way, you're safe from him biting, and there's no chance that he'll develop an attitude about you. You're separated from what's happening to him and there's no confrontation or conflict. 



Slamdunc said:


> He eats every meal in the car, we sit and I feed him treats in the car. I have it down to about 3 minutes to get him in the car with out a fight and I haven't been bitten yet. We are bonding nicely


This is playing "catch−up" AFTER you took the risk of getting bitten and creating a confrontation that would probably result in him not trusting you. Later you tell us that you're going to use _"brains and not brawn"_ to train this dog. This does not sound like a great start. Instead you used brute force and luckily, got away with it. 



Slamdunc said:


> My goal is some much needed control and absolute obedience. * Koehler's methods would get me tore up for sure. *


I can't tell you how many times I've heard this from people who knew very little about the KMODT. I've used it with some pretty handler aggressive dogs and never have I been bitten or threatened with a bite from them. This is the sort of comment that is often heard from people who have either not read the books or not understood what's going on with them. It's typically from people who give corrections without having laid a foundation for them by starting out with KMODT square one. 



Slamdunc said:


> I'm not fighting with this dog,


There's no fighting with the KMODT. 



Slamdunc said:


> For the OP a very good book is "Purely Positive Training" by Sheila Booth.


The very title is a lie. There is no such thing as _"Purely Positive Training."_ THERE IS a perversion of what the word "positive" means in this context.


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

Slamdunc said:


> I'm not sure exactly what the issue with the car is? He was like that with the Military trainers that I got him from. Initially, he was very anxious about getting in the car. I'm not sure if it was because he didn't want to be put up and not working? I think he enjoys being out and doesn't want to go back in the "box." Keep in mind he was tested and purchased in Holland in Nov. He is an adult dog. * I can only guess that something happened, * plane ride here could have been traumatic, * I just don't know. * The dog has no environmental issues and is ready and willing to work. * I suppose what happened doesn't matter anymore, now it's simply about fixing it. *


Yep, it's a waste of time trying to figure out why such dogs are the way that they are. Those folks are infamous for using some very harsh methods and there's no way of knowing what was done with the dog. Like you, I just work on solving the issue. If someone bases a solution on a guess as to what caused the issue, and that guess is wrong, likely so will be the solution. 



Slamdunc said:


> In two days he is no longer anxious about getting in the car, he doesn't fight like he initially did. He is much calmer now, * but still stubborn. *


Dogs are not _"stubborn."_ They just have their own agenda and see no reason not to follow it. Imputing human characteristics like this, anthropomorphism, often leads people down the wrong road. It's up to the trainer to channel the dog into thinking that the desired behavior is his idea. 



Slamdunc said:


> He is "E collar conditioned" and has been worked on the E collar.


* What's your definition of "Ecollar conditioned?" * Just because a dog has _"been worked on the Ecollar,"_ does not mean he knows what it is. 



Slamdunc said:


> I have one on him, just in case I need to correct him. The other trainers would use the "low level stim" method to work him * and he responds. *


* So he "responds ... [to] the 'low level stim' method" but you don't want to use it? You'd rather use much higher levels of stim to correct him? * Hmmm. 



Slamdunc said:


> I'm not a fan of this, as the stim must be uncomfortable and cause some level of discomfort for it to work.


Of course _"low level stim"_ is _"uncomfortable."_ *Do you think that stim at the 'correction' level is less or more "uncomfortable" than stim at the level that the dog can first perceive? *From our past discussions, it's apparent that you know nothing of this kind of work, and that you're not interested in learning. In your theory it must be at a high enough level of stim that the dog will think it's a correction. That will be FAR MORE _"uncomfortable,"_ probably extending well into what most of us would call pain. Again, later you talk about using _"brains not brawn"_ on this dog. Using an Ecollar for corrections, is certainly not an example of that. 

Before Koehler wrote his books, while he was still developing his method, he trained about 15,700 dogs in his classes,. Yet you tell us that just a few posts back that _"times have changed and methods have evolved."_ I doubt that you've trained anywhere near the number of dogs that Koehler trained, yet you are not willing to _"change [or] evolve."_ Yet you expect that he would. Yet you are not willing to do so. 



Slamdunc said:


> I am not going to stim the dog to "make him do things" but it would sure take a lot less time to put him in the car.


ROFL. * You're kidding right? * According to what you've told us you _"grabbed him and tossed him in the car."_ There's not a more forceful way to _"make him do things"_ than that. *But giving him a low level stim would be distasteful to you? Brute force is better? * 



Slamdunc said:


> Regardless, of what some think, if "low level stim" was pleasurable to a dog, then the dog would have no need to perform to turn it off.


I'm pretty darn sure that absolutely NO ONE has said that _" 'low level stim' was pleasurable to a dog."_ *Can you tell us who you think, said that? * And then, *What was it they said that lead you to believe this? Can you provide their quotation that lead you to this false impression? * 



Slamdunc said:


> I am trying to start slowely and build a nice bond with this dog.


* Was "calmly grab[bing] him and toss[ing] him in the car" part of "start[ing] slowly [to] build a nice bond?" * 



Slamdunc said:


> A dog that I will need to be extremely careful with around citizens and other Officers.


There are many such dogs in LE work. I think that they are a liability and not fit for service. It severely restricts what can be done with the dog. For example, I used to do daily OFF LEASH walk−throughs of what was, at the time, the third busiest mall in So Cal. Hard to do that with a dog as you describe. 



Slamdunc said:


> I am learning the dog and * we have team training on Wednesday * and two other PD's K-9 units are coming out. * That will be the day when I see what this dog is all about. *


* Only three days from when this was written? * I guess we have a different idea of the meaning of what you said about _"start[ing] slowly and build[ing] a nice bond ..."_ * Can you do that in just three days? *


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

Slamdunc said:


> I must say he is a very cool dog and I really like him. I am very fortunate to have gotten a dog of this quality. He originally sold for almost double of what my dept pays for dogs. [/b] He is a very high end dog that needs one, strong handler.


Using your methods, I bet that's going to be very true. From what you've told us about your methods, they involve quite a bit of conflict. If he was trained with a DTS (Drive Training System) the handler and the dog would be working together as a team to achieve the ends of a LE K−9 team. You have the handler and the dog working from opposite ends, at least some of the time. That causes conflict and is why people talk about needing to have _"one strong handler."_ 



Slamdunc said:


> He is a beast,


Lots of different meanings for this. * Can you explain what you mean by it, please? * 



Slamdunc said:


> I can see how some of his behaviors would make a new handler apprehensive. He moves fast, circles like a shark and keeps moving.


I don't see any reason why this would make a new handler _"apprehensive."_ Unless, of course, he's going to use methods that involve conflict, methods would place him in physical danger of an attack from the dog. My methods eliminate such confrontation. 



Slamdunc said:


> * He tends to be voracious for a toy * and will start to bark pretty vigorously if he can't get to one or if you are holding it.


I think that in the last several years, handlers have gotten bitten over a toy more often than for giving harsh corrections. I see no reason to use toys in training a LE K−9 and they introduce all sorts of issues that often have to be trained away to complete the street work. A few years back I tossed a ball to a dog that had been sent to bite me. He happily retrieved it to me. Such methods are great for competition where you're training tricks, but for work that should directly involve drives, they're both unnecessary and superfluous. 



Slamdunc said:


> He does not take corrections from strangers and has nailed handlers for that


Why anyone would want to use corrections with a dog that has already _"nailed handlers for that"_ is a mystery. * Can you tell us why that is part of your plan? *


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

deacon said:


> Have to disagree Slam he taught his method all the way up to his death. I talked to him on a few occasions and even then he was not that happy with some of the methods being taught then. There are thousands still using his method today. I for one deviate very little if at all from the method depending on the dog and will put his method up against any of the show boat methods taught today.


Yep. Agree completely. Koehler was quite upset when people started picking and choosing pieces from his method and calling themselves "KMODT trainers." In fact he demanded that unless they were using his methods from start to finish, that they could not call themselves by that title. He forced quite a few to 'take down their shingles.' 



deacon said:


> Agreed!! I just get so ticked off when the critics most whom have never read his obedience book call his methods either harsh or yank & crank when it is far from either!


Most of those people are just parroting what they've heard someone else say about his methods.


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