# overprotective?



## mark1981 (Sep 3, 2014)

Niko just turned 1 year old a few days ago. I brought him home at 7 weeks and he has been attached to me since day 2. My fiance stayed home with him for the first 2 days, gave him his first bath and fed him, she held him on the drive home. For whatever reason he picked me almost immediately as his human. I'm fine with it as I love dogs and honestly like them better than people. At 10 weeks we had our first aggression/protection incident. At a family get together my cousin brought her chiwawa(probably spelled wrong) which thinks he's 150 lbs and very yappy. They played and chased each other till Niko was tired and he laid in the shade under the deck. I began to pet the little chiwawa and suddenly he went off barking and trying to bite me. I was in no real danger from a 5lb dog being a large man in my early 30s. Niko watched for a few seconds tilting his head side to side curiously then he sprang up and ran through the little guy, grabbed him by the neck and drug him a few feet away barked in his face and returned to the shade. We were all in shock and didn't do anything as it was over in a few seconds. Niko stared at the chiwawa from then on. A while later the same thing happened again except after dragging the little guy away from me he sat at my side and stared him down. Since then any sign of aggression even from my other 2 dogs he will blow them up and run them away from me. Even playful behavior with toys but if they are calm he ignores them and is fine. Strange dogs are the same, calm and friendly and he's fine but aggressive stance or excited behavior near me will get a butt torn off. Size and age don't matter, puppies and adult dogs twice his size he will go after until I call him off. He does stop as soon as I call him off though and there are usually no hackles and he doesn't go after everything just the perceived threat. With people he's usually excepting if they don't make sudden movements but if they do he lunges. So far no bites but he's gotten close. The people he's lunged at have been "friends" that he plays with and lets pet him before and after the incidents.It's only if makes a sudden movement toward me. Is this normal or should I really try to focus on breaking him of this?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Why are you allowing him to make the rules? You need to step up and show some leadership to him so he looks to you instead of making his own decisions. 
Dogs need to be guided, and want that direction. It does help their confidence when they don't have all that pressure on them to be in such control of the world(especially immature dogs).


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

He shouldn't be lunging at anyone. My youngest is super bonded to me and has resourced guarded me with the other dogs and even a couple strangers, but never family or people in the home. Even with people he doesn't lunge, he gives a low growl(its a very noticeable warning) and this is usually when they approach me. I just tell him to knock it off. With the other dogs in the house he has gotten way better. It went from him charging one in particular multiple times per day to maybe once a week and I now feel like I have control over it. *This was a lot of management and training and increased leadership on my part*, I don't think I will ever let my guard down with him. Him and one of my other males do not get along and they got into a fight in January. Just last week I took both of them hiking trying to get them back together, but I put a basket muzzle on the GSD. They hiked and did well with each other until we were on the way home and they got into a scuffle in the backseat--thankfully I kept that basket muzzle on him. I don't think they will ever be together again. You don't want your dog to be like that with any dogs. He doesn't control the situation, you do and he needs to know that. It is not up to him who you play with and he should not be allowed to run them off, its going to create more problems later on. You don't want a fight because eventually another dog might not just get ran off and fight back. It really can be a mess if you don't stop it now.


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## mark1981 (Sep 3, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> Why are you allowing him to make the rules? You need to step up and show some leadership to him so he looks to you instead of making his own decisions.
> Dogs need to be guided, and want that direction. It does help their confidence when they don't have all that pressure on them to be in such control of the world(especially immature dogs).


I think you misunderstood my situation. Niko has no problem with confidence, he is a dominant and aggressive gsd with some high tolerance and ridiculousdrives. I am alpha and that is not our problem. He doesn't make the rules but as of now he will break them. Maybe I didn't make it very clear but his behavioris spot on 99% of the time . To be where we are considering where we started is nothing short of amazing. What I am talking about goes beyond teaching him to do tricks or sit. His training and obedience are fantastic but when a threat is perceived he doesn't hesitate and I think he even jumps the gun sometimes. I was hoping to get advice as to whether this is something to focus on because it will probably get worse or if it's because he's still young and won't mature for another year or two.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Yes, it's something to focus on because yes, it will get worse as he matures.


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

There are lots of posts about dogs in your dogs age range behaving badly. Although you have taught him tricks and to sit, he needs to know that no matter what, what you say goes. With the behavior you say he is showing 99% reliable is not enough, especially if you don't know when that other 1% will happen. You didn't say whether or not you know his triggers and can predict when he is going to act out.

You shouldn't have to "call him off" though it is very good that you can. You do need to focus on this because by not correcting him for it now is as good as telling him this behavior is ok. Everytime he is successful with a behavior, it reinforces the behavior.


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## mark1981 (Sep 3, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> Why are you allowing him to make the rules? You need to step up and show some leadership to him so he looks to you instead of making his own decisions.
> Dogs need to be guided, and want that direction. It does help their confidence when they don't have all that pressure on them to be in such control of the world(especially immature dogs).


I think you misunderstood my situation. Niko has no problem with confidence, he is a dominant and aggressive gsd with some high tolerance and ridiculousdrives. I am alpha and that is not our problem. He doesn't make the rules but as of now he will break them. Maybe I didn't make it very clear but his behavioris spot on 99% of the time . To be where we are considering where we started is nothing short of amazing. What I am talking about goes beyond teaching him to do tricks or sit. His training and obedience are fantastic but when a threat is perceived he doesn't hesitate and I think he even jumps the gun sometimes. I was hoping to get advice as to whether this is something to focus on because it will probably get worse or if it's because he's still young and won't mature for another year or two.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

mark1981 said:


> I think you misunderstood my situation. Niko has no problem with confidence, he is a dominant and aggressive gsd with some high tolerance and ridiculousdrives. I am alpha and that is not our problem. He doesn't make the rules but as of now he will break them. Maybe I didn't make it very clear but his behavioris spot on 99% of the time . To be where we are considering where we started is nothing short of amazing. What I am talking about goes beyond teaching him to do tricks or sit. His training and obedience are fantastic but when a threat is perceived he doesn't hesitate and I think he even jumps the gun sometimes. I was hoping to get advice as to whether this is something to focus on because it will probably get worse or if it's because he's still young and won't mature for another year or two.


But the problem is the other dogs are not a threat and he is perceiving them that way. Its a management issue. What do you do when he chases the other dogs away when they are playing with you? Or when he just chases them? what do you do when he lunges at people?


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

mark1981 said:


> ... chiwawa(probably spelled wrong) ...


Made me laugh! It's a pretty funny word and I wouldn't know how to spell it either without google'ing. haha.

My 9 months old boy is not as extreme as yours, but he does this:

If I'm standing, he is fine with people come closer but he is usually cautious. He needs to be the first one to sniff and then he is ok. If someone comes in first, the chances are he will bark or will be concerned.
But if I'm crouched or sitting on the floor on his level and somebody approaches - he will lunge and bark. It's almost he thinks that now that I'm much smaller in size, I need extra protection (I'm 6'3" @ 200 pounds). 
Our trainer said that I need to correct this behavior and not let him bark at people and I'm working on it. They should be able to guard you without being aggressive or loud.
My theory is that it is behavioral thing that should be taught rather than hoping they'll outgrow it. But I'm the first time dog owner and also keep my eyes open when reading things and will keep trying different stuff if my corrections don't work.


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## mark1981 (Sep 3, 2014)

Rosy831 said:


> There are lots of posts about dogs in your dogs age range behaving badly. Although you have taught him tricks and to sit, he needs to know that no matter what, what you say goes. With the behavior you say he is showing 99% reliable is not enough, especially if you don't know when that other 1% will happen. You didn't say whether or not you know his triggers and can predict when he is going to act out.
> 
> You shouldn't have to "call him off" though it is very good that you can. You do need to focus on this because by not correcting him for it now is as good as telling him this behavior is ok. Everytime he is successful with a behavior, it reinforces the behavior.


I use a prong collar and have been through basic obedience with a legit trainer and know how to use it. When he gives warning I give a strong correction. So far this has worked to stop the aggression and whenhe ddoesn't give a sign he stops with a correction and returns to his previous position. His triggers are pretty straight forward, sudden movements in my direction or within my personal space for ppl and jumping, barking being excited in my personal space with other dogs. Also he has done this with other dogs that were calm and still but showed signs of aggression like staring with tail high and still and ears forward. I don't think it's fear based at all. He has wanted to slap the face and hump every dog we've met. We have that part under control but occasionally he has to be reminded.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would continue training with your 'legit' trainer. I don't think asking advice on a forum is going to get you results compared to a trainer working with you and seeing your handling skills.

FWIW, Onyx acted much the same, at the same age. A prong correction ramped her up and backfired as she saw that correction as coming from what she was reacting to. 
Instead, I was instructed to give her a command and if she didn't do what was asked, correct for that. Redirection to me instead of correcting for the reactive behavior.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Hi Mark, 

If you would like some help, try and be open and not take offense if some of the suggestions people make rub you the wrong way. You may have to change your view about Niko and and how you view your relationship in order to get control of this behaviour. 

What you are seeing is not protectiveness, but resource guarding. Puppies and one year-olds are not mature enough to develop this type of protectiveness. Resource guarding is very common, and is seen even in young puppies. Basically, Niko has considers you as HIS, and he does not want to share. Though initially this sounds like loyalty, it isn't. He regards you as a precious resource, in the same category as food, a bone, a favorite toy. 

Usually when resource guarding of a human happens, especially the owner and handler, it means there is a break-down in pack structure. He is controlling you, but deciding who gets to interact with you. As said above, (but you might have misunderstood the reason behind the previous opinions), and he has been allowed to resource guard you for a long time, and each time he does, it reinforces in his mind that you are a possession. 

It can be a bit of a shock for people to learn this. If you think about it, a subordinate member of the pack would never even dream of controlling the leader in this way, of making decisions for the Alpha. I don't really see him as an Alpha dog (real Alphas are super-duper rare, and a nightmare to live with. What you have is a confident pup (good job on that!), that was allowed to resource guard from an early age, and now it has affected how he sees himself in relationship to you. 

Many people see it as protective behaviour, and want to encourage this. But true protective behaviour comes from a place of inner confidence, and is called upon when a real threat arises, not when a human wants to socialize with friends, or wants to pet another dog. 

Pack leadership is gained (and lost), through ongoing small daily interactions with our dogs. Often the process of a dog deciding that they are above the human is so subtle that we don't even realize that we lost control. A well trained dog that is eager to please will continue to listen well, and try to please its owner, because they have made positive associations with those behaviours (so good job on the training!), but sometimes it is in other small ways that they assert their control in ways that they can - like controlling who comes near you. 

So no one misunderstood, the advice is the same: Yes, it will get worse. Yes, it is normal for a dog to resource guard, not normal for a dog that knows it's place to resource guard his or her human. 

The good news is that if you already have a strong basis of obedience training on Niko, you can use this to take back control. Use the obedience in any situation that there might be resource guarding. Start drills, and get a sit stay, or other obedience exercise going where he has to listen to you, and can't at the same time run, bark, chase, and act in anyway that shows that he is trying to control the situation. 

No, breaking him of resource guarding now won't take away his protectiveness, which should start coming out when he is older. 

So bottom line, short version of the above: He is resource guarding you. Don't allow it, and you're good!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> I would continue training with your 'legit' trainer. I don't think asking advice on a forum is going to get you results compared to a trainer working with you and seeing your handling skills.
> 
> FWIW, Onyx acted much the same, at the same age. A prong correction ramped her up and backfired as she saw that correction as coming from what she was reacting to.
> Instead, I was instructed to give her a command and if she didn't do what was asked, correct for that. Redirection to me instead of correcting for the reactive behavior.


I was thinking the same thing with the prong. It doesn't work all the time the right way depending on the dog. I couldn't use a prong on Apollo in this manner and I know it.


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

onyx'girl said:


> I would continue training with your 'legit' trainer. I don't think asking advice on a forum is going to get you results compared to a trainer working with you and seeing your handling skills.
> 
> FWIW, Onyx acted much the same, at the same age. A prong correction ramped her up and backfired as she saw that correction as coming from what she was reacting to.
> Instead, I was instructed to give her a command and if she didn't do what was asked, correct for that. Redirection to me instead of correcting for the reactive behavior.


I can see how just a correction with the prong at reacting can backfire. I was taught to correct for none compliance also. I just happen to use the "leave it" command because that works for me, because the reactivity would happen on walks, and we could just keep moving.


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Castlemaid said:


> ... He regards you as a precious resource, in the same category as food, a bone, a favorite toy.
> 
> Usually when resource guarding of a human happens, especially the owner and handler, it means there is a break-down in pack structure. He is controlling you, but deciding who gets to interact with you....



This actually explains the behavior of my little guy for sure. Thanks for the info!! And proves again that our trainer is right in telling to correct this behavior she just didn't explain it quite right. Now I'm gonna try obedience elements when this happens (like sit stay or down stay) and have people come and pet him or shake my hand and etc. With persistence and praises I'm sure I'll get it under control pretty quick, he is a quick learner.

Thanks again!


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

HappyGoLucky said:


> This actually explains the behavior of my little guy for sure. Thanks for the info!! And proves again that our trainer is right in telling to correct this behavior she just didn't explain it quite right. Now I'm gonna try obedience elements when this happens (like sit stay or down stay) and* have people come and pet him* or shake my hand and etc. With persistence and praises I'm sure I'll get it under control pretty quick, he is a quick learner.
> 
> Thanks again!



I wouldn't do this. If your pup is uncomfortable with strangers you could cause a bite to happen. I would rather my pup be neutral to people than to try to force being friendly.
http://www.germanshepherds.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Rosy831 said:


> I wouldn't do this. If your pup is uncomfortable with strangers you could cause a bite to happen. I would rather my pup be neutral to people than to try to force being friendly.
> http://www.germanshepherds.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


Thanks for the point, Rosy831. 

I wouldn't say that he is uncomfortable. The other way around, he is curious and confident (I worked a lot on getting his confidence up since he was more on a timid side when I just got him). And if you let him sniff first, he is ok being pet, he is super friendly to all dogs and just wants to play. Other dogs bark and he just looks at them like "what-evs". I think it is more of him guarding me as a resource. 
He is super stable mentally. I never even yell at him. All the "strict" corrections are in a firm calm voice and he knows the difference. He is already much much better at passing people and ignores them (and I praise him for that). It's mostly only when I'm down on his level that he shows this behavior.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Happy - let people know that what you are working on with your dog before you ask them to help you, let them know it's okay if they are not comfortable with this. 

My rescue was big-time resource guarding me when we started OB classes, and I went to pet other people's dog. Sure as heck I corrected!! She doesn't get to decide who which dogs I interact with or not. She hadn't had much socialization before I got her, so she still had a lot to learn. I asked people in the class if they were okay with helping me work on this - I sure could understand if they didn't want another dog lunging at their dog.

Turns out it only took one session of correcting when she growled or tried to do anything, and rewarding with praise and treats when she listened to me and held her sit. Some dogs are just begging for clear boundaries - otherwise they may feel that they have to take care of EVERYTHING and it is exhausting!!! I know with my rescue, the more boundaries I set, the more she understood my expectations, the more relaxed and confident she became.


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Castlemaid said:


> Happy - let people know that what you are working on with your dog before you ask them to help you, let them know it's okay if they are not comfortable with this.


Thanks! Yeah, I'll start doing it. There are plenty of dog lovers around who stop and chat sometimes, I'll use these opportunities.

Mine is exactly like yours with boundaries! The more rules I make, the happier he seems. Definitely more confidence. And now at 9 months he can easily walk at almost perfect heel for 15-20 minutes. Then I notice he gets a bit tense, starts to distract easier. We stop/autosit, I praise lots and say "go sniff". And I let him until he comes back to heel. He started doing the back to heel thing just a few days ago. So I think it's working. 
Yes, loooves rules! I like it too - there is always something to work on and they all behavioral rules mostly that help in every day life (like not sticking nose underneath girls' skirts trying to remove the haltie. Lol! People usually laugh and I make a stupid joke how I didn't teach it to him, he comes to me one day and says "dad, look what learnt!", apologize and we keep walking. haha. Good times!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> If you would like some help, try and be open and not take offense if some of the suggestions people make rub you the wrong way. You may have to change your view about Niko and and how you view your relationship in order to get control of this behaviour.
> 
> ...



Great post!!!


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

mark1981 said:


> I think you misunderstood my situation. Niko has no problem with confidence, he is a dominant and aggressive gsd with some high tolerance and ridiculousdrives. I am alpha and that is not our problem. He doesn't make the rules but as of now he will break them. Maybe I didn't make it very clear but his behavioris spot on 99% of the time . To be where we are considering where we started is nothing short of amazing. What I am talking about goes beyond teaching him to do tricks or sit. His training and obedience are fantastic but when a threat is perceived he doesn't hesitate and I think he even jumps the gun sometimes. I was hoping to get advice as to whether this is something to focus on because it will probably get worse or if it's because he's still young and won't mature for another year or two.


I think you have this situation misunderstood. His training and obedience is clearly short of amazing. This behavior will absolutely get worse, your dog is either going to seriously hurt another dog or a person. 

This is most definitely something to focus on. I would recommend seeking out a qualified trainer. No offense, but from your descriptions your dog's obedience is seriously lacking and you are to close to the situation to be objective. 

I'm not sure I would agree with your description of your dog's temperament either. I'm not trying to be insulting or offend you. But, just from your posts I see a completely different situation and dog than you do, and frankly that concerns me.


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