# Blue Ridge Beef & starting raw…



## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

I have an 18 month old GSD 

He has a history of coccidia then giardia and hookworm by the time he was 6 months. Has been on multiple medications and ever since on a Rx diet that is high fiber low fat. There is no reason he needs to stay on this diet other than it was the only thing he tolerated for awhile.

i want to transition him to raw. It has always been my plan to have him on raw however his earlier illnesses disrupted that plan.

I don’t think he is doing well on this food. He is too thin and fur isn’t shiny. He doesn’t like it either so I end up topping it with cooked ground beef.

how can we transition to raw? Any time he eats anything other than this Rx kibble he gets diarrhea. Will he even be able to tolerate raw?

how is blue ridge beef? It seems he has a hard time tolerating fat (he’s been tested for EPI SIBO etc with Texas GI panel ans it’s negative but anecdotally when he eats 80% lean beef he gets diarrhea) so I would want to feed him raw with a higher than average fiber % and low fat % since that is the diet he is on now.
Any tips in general would be appreciated.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Free Pet Food Menu Consultation | Darwin's Natural Pet Products

might be worth giving them a call.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Blue Ridge has questionable sources. I would look elsewhere.


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

90 - 95% lean meat is what you should be aiming for.

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## crowconor (Dec 29, 2020)

K9 kravings is a great option for premade raw. I agree, I would skip blue ridge: if you google them you will see they’ve had recalls and the state of their factories at the time are disgusting.


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## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

Sunflowers said:


> Blue Ridge has questionable sources. I would look elsewhere.


I was going to try ordering from: 








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They have blue ridge,titan, and some other options


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## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

crowconor said:


> K9 kravings is a great option for premade raw. I agree, I would skip blue ridge: if you google them you will see they’ve had recalls and the state of their factories at the time are disgusting.


Thanks I’ll look to see if any local places have them - it seems that’s the only way to get their raw food?


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## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

Looked at k9 kraving and these two breakdowns sound like they may work in terms of being lower fat. What’s the best way to transition? I was going to go very slow, like 1-2 months slow because he’s very sensitive to changes in diet. But I’ve also heard that adding raw to kibble isn’t good since they are digested differently - is it ok to put a very small amount of the raw with the kibble as we are transitioning?

do most people feed 1 meal a day when doing raw? My dog prefers to eat one meal in the evening only. Sounds like he would need roughly 2 lb or just under per day.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Can you just get a whole chicken and let him go at it?
I would avoid veggies if the dog has tendency to have loose stools.
What is the reason for fat avoidance? Dogs get their energy from fat.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Raw Feeding Miami has great food and great info.








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My Pet Carnivore is the second one I would recommend.




__





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ETA:
I read your other thread. Sounds as if his gut was really irritated from all the parasites and treatments.
I would try him on Bernie’s Perfect Poop, ASAP. Start with just a pinch, and work up to 2 tablespoons. This fixed Hans’ gut after 8 years, when nothing else would.





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As soon as he is better, add fish oil. They need EFAs, otherwise, the skin and hair start to have problems.
Also, of course he will have soft poops if he eats ground beef. If you don’t add bone meal, this is sure to happen.








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I feed Hans 1.3 lb ground beef that has been brought to a boil, then cooled immediately in 2 cups of ice water. I add 1 teaspoon of bone meal, and 2 tablespoons of the Bernie’s. For organs, I add 1 ounce of frozen liver while the meat is boiling. Any more liver and he gets runny poops. He also gets 2 capsules of fish oil.

For “dessert,” he has 3 raw duck feet.
This is how I fixed the disaster that was Hans’ stomach and gut.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

The transition depends on the dog. I followed the recommendations given at Darwin's. Yes I mixed into the kibble. My oldest dog was pretty young when I made the switch it was easy. Our newest dog had been eating kibble for a year before the switch. He has had some digestive upset off and on. He got smelly, itchy and shed like crazy. 
Read about the detox your dog will go through. I would imagine it alarming for some people. 
Make sure it's a balanced pre-made raw.


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## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

Sunflowers said:


> Raw Feeding Miami has great food and great info.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thank you so much for the advice. Do you believe the Bernie’s is very different from Sunday Sundae from feedsentials company? That’s what we are using to try to heal his gut and assist with digestion. Yes my pup had coccidia @ 8 weeks, giardia and hookworm at 6 months so I think his gut is just “damaged” from all the parasites as well as being dewormed many times, Flagyl at least 3 times and Tylosin. It’s been a lot!

In terms of fat - around 6 months when he couldn’t tolerate anything the vet started him on hills w/d it’s about 10% fat but a TON of fiber like 20%. That was the only thing I’ve seen work for him. We tried to transition to purina pro plan sensitive stomach just to at least get off an Rx food but he started having diarrhea again. We also tried Fromms and the original food the breeder was giving him that I don’t recall name of and he never tolerated any of these. So we just stuck with the Rx w/d food but he doesn’t really eat it so I add beef into it to make it appetizing. I’ve just noticed when I add more beef then he gets the runs bad so I assumed it was the fat content he couldn’t tolerate.
Now that I’m reading more about raw I realize that beef is more fatty and chicken turkey or duck might be better with less fat and having more bone may actually constipate some dogs so I’m hoping maybe we can wean to raw diet with about 10% fat and see if he can tolerate that.


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## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

Sunflowers said:


> Raw Feeding Miami has great food and great info.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the meal you described doesn’t sound too hard to make. I am already cooking for him multiple times a week. If you don’t mind what other meals do you make for him? I am just concerned about not being able to prepare balanced meals so I figured it would be easier to purchase commercially prepared balanced raw mixes


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

LandosMommy said:


> the meal you described doesn’t sound too hard to make. I am already cooking for him multiple times a week. If you don’t mind what other meals do you make for him? I am just concerned about not being able to prepare balanced meals so I figured it would be easier to purchase commercially prepared balanced raw mixes


That is the only thing he will tolerate.
“Balanced” means different things to different people.
After years of trying raw from everyone, and all sorts of combos, this is what works. His skin is clear, his hair is shiny, his teeth are clean, and his poops are firm.
Worrying about “balanced” got me into all sorts of trouble, such as when I gave him multivitamins for dogs, resulting in a yeast infection that even affected the insides of his ears.
To me, balanced means some muscle meat, some bone meal, a bit of organ, and a bit of fish oil.
His poops have become perfect since I discovered Bernie’s.
I haven’t tried Sunday Sundae in years. When I did, it didn’t help. I’m sure it’s a wonderful product, but…
The duck feet provide great joint support, a bit of fresh, raw bone that he actually tolerates, and delight for him, as he crunches.
I now look at what works for the dog, rather than what, on paper, is considered balanced.

His latest blood work came back great,

He turned 10 today.❤


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## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

Sunflowers said:


> That is the only thing he will tolerate.
> “Balanced” means different things to different people.
> After years of trying raw from everyone, and all sorts of combos, this is what works. His skin is clear, his hair is shiny, his teeth are clean, and his poops are firm.
> Worrying about “balanced” got me into all sorts of trouble, such as when I gave him multivitamins for dogs, resulting in a yeast infection that even affected the insides of his ears.
> ...


This has been incredibly helpful. Thank you. I purchased Bernie’s to give it a try and will try the beef with bone meal added. Which fish oil do you use and where do you get your frozen liver and duck feet from?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Frozen liver and duck feet from either Raw Feeding Miami or My Pet Carnivore.
I use this fish oil, 2 capsules a day.










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But Shemp oil from Carmspack is also great.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Tomorrow I will take some pics to illustrate what I do.


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## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

Sunflowers said:


> Frozen liver and duck feet from either Raw Feeding Miami or My Pet Carnivore.
> I use this fish oil, 2 capsules a day.
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you!! I cannot express how grateful I am for this community and people like you. I just have one last question for you - when you are purchasing beef for your dog, are you purchasing from local grocery store and if so what % lean beef are you getting for him? Do you think that a similar type of recipe with bone meal and liver would work with ground chicken or ground turkey as well?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I think, yes, it would work with ground chicken or turkey.
I purchase my meat from Costco, or other wholesale clubs. I get either 85% or 93%. I do add the fat back in… easier to show in pics.

You are very welcome. Glad to help.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

K9 Kraving is a privately owned company out of Maryland. They have a distributor for an area in southern PA and MD areas but once you are out of that area retailers have to order a minimum weight per pallet so it's not easily available outside that area. I'm about 30 miles north out of that distribution area and it sucks. It's a great food. My dogs do very well on it.

I'm just going to say - if your dog has digestive issues, don't rock that boat to much. I would be concerned about restarting a cycle and causing inflammation. Have you ever done an elimination diet to check for food allergies? it could be allergies causing the symptoms and not EPI or SIBO.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I agree with not rocking the boat.
I would add Bernie’s first, staring with just a pinch and working up to 2 to 3 tablespoons.

That has literally repaired Hans’ gut. For so many years, he had a red, inflamed butt that he used to lick, poor guy. And that was only the outside that could be seen, I can only imagine the inflammation inside.
I found that their recommended 3 Tbsp was too much for him. 1.5 was the perfect quantity. Any more, and the stools got soft again.


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## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

Jax08 said:


> K9 Kraving is a privately owned company out of Maryland. They have a distributor for an area in southern PA and MD areas but once you are out of that area retailers have to order a minimum weight per pallet so it's not easily available outside that area. I'm about 30 miles north out of that distribution area and it sucks. It's a great food. My dogs do very well on it.
> 
> I'm just going to say - if your dog has digestive issues, don't rock that boat to much. I would be concerned about restarting a cycle and causing inflammation. Have you ever done an elimination diet to check for food allergies? it could be allergies causing the symptoms and not EPI or SIBO.


When he had giardia around 6 months, we completely stopped everything. Every treat, bone/chew, food was completely eliminated. We put him on Hills W/D and he had that only + plain chicken or beef with rice as per our vet while getting treated. Once he was stable, very slowly I introduced a few treats since then (The Honest Kitchen limited ingredient ones - he's done just fine with the mussels (but they are consistently out of stock i cant find them anywhere), white fish filets, and crispy cod fish skins). So that is all he gets for treats. More recently he has been able to chew a beef hide roll from Farmhounds but he goes very slowly with it. We tried to switch off W/D to other diets and he always got diarrhea. I'm not sure what specifically was the trigger in the other diets. He tolerated 1-2 bully sticks. He once got a trachea and had severe diarrhea after that also so I stopped bothering with any other type of chew or treat. I would like to get him a new bone but I'm not sure what to try. Otherwise that's pretty much all he's had. His routine dinner is Hills W/D + Sunday Sundae + ground beef or chicken. Occasionally rice gets thrown in. If he gets extra beef or chicken, he gets the runs.


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## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

One diet we tried's ingredients which he didn't tolerate (purina pro plan sensitive skin/stomach puppy)











The diet he's on: 
*Whole Grain Wheat, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Fat, Cracked Pearled Barley, Whole Grain Oats, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Pork Flavor, Lactic Acid, Soybean Oil, Caramel Color, Flaxseed, *Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Glyceryl Monostearate, Potassium Citrate, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source Of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), L-Tryptophan, Calcium Carbonate, Dl-Methionine, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, L-Carnitine, Mixed Tocopherols For Freshness, Natural Flavors, Beta-Carotene.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Unless I missed it you really haven't done an elimination diet because of the extra stuff you added. He has to be on the hydrolyzed diet from the vet exclusively for about 12 weeks. Then you start adding in one ingredient at a time to see if he has a reaction.

Beef and of course chicken are proteins to avoid if you suspect food allergies.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I think unfortunately he developed chronic IBD. He responds to tylan so he may need to be on it for some time while you switch him to a regular diet. You'll need to go through different foods to figure out what works. This is just so common with dogs who have giardia as puppies and treated by abx for a long period of time. Why does he need digestive enzymes? The supplement has so much in it that can trigger allergy by itself. Sometimes dogs don't do well on raw only. My previous dog was on kibble for breakfast and premade raw and a piece of cornish hen (he didn't tolerate chicken well) for dinner, it worked for him. I tried to remove kibble but it was a no go. For treats I would use raw bones, marrow bones, hides. I like original cheese and eggs charlie bears for treats as they are 'hypoallergenic' for my dogs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

When the dog has underlying conditions, whether a name has been put to it or not, I"m a big believer in feeding what works for the dog. Obviously I'm not crazy about Science Diet but it does have its place. If you want to switch him then I would do a true elimination diet. If that doesn't work then I would put him on the food that does work for him and stop messing with it, regardless of my opinion of hte food.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

First two ingredients are wheat and …powdered cellulose.
Then corn, more corn, oats, barley, beet pulp… and, best of all, pork liver “flavor” and chicken “flavor.”
No wonder he’s thin and his coat is dull.









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I do agree with being careful, but I would seek a more nutritious alternative. Cellulose is not the answer, in my opinion.

PM sent.


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## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

we live on a farm/woodlands so my dogs get coccidia, giardia. I give my dogs a good all around kibble and treats/add ons are just eggs, chicken, blueberries. Haven't had any stool problems.


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## LandosMommy (Sep 30, 2016)

He was on the Rx diet only for months. He had giardia 5-6 months old. He’s 18 months now and still on it. I didn’t start giving him the honest kitchen treats until a couple months ago. Other than that, that’s all he gets. The vet said OK to rice and plain chicken or hamburger when he had diarrhea but otherwise that’s it.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Blue Ridge has been in the news for lots of problems, so I wouldn't let it near a dog with IBD: Search Results for “blue ridge” – Truth about Pet Food
If you only read one thing on that site, read this: Blue Ridge Beef Pet Food Warning Letter

Have you tried the Honest Kitchen's food? It comes out of a plant that can make human food, meaning only human-grade ingredients can enter the plants. You could perhaps try one of their base-mixes in which you buy meat at the supermarket to add to the base mix, to make a complete meal. Mine responded to that food immediately -- it was like it turned off the inflammation in his gut by flipping a switch. We went from bloody diarrhea (even on allergy kibble) to solid, big healthy poops really fast. I've tried Dr. Harvey's and a few other options becuase I'd like to rotate for variety, but we always come back to THK because he does better on it than anything else I can feed. The Honest Kitchen's Preference (Fruit & Veg Grain Free) Base-Mix is the base mix that he does best on but YMMV. I add some Nordic Naturals fish oil, split across his meals. The end result is an AAFCO compliant meal that covers all the micro-nutrients without me having to think much about it.

We started with THK + cooked meat for a long while (over a year). Then at some point he shifted to THK + raw. That worked for quite a few years for him. Unfortunately, now that he's older, he can no longer handle raw -- he needs his meat cooked again. If you go that route, I would buy GOOD human-grade USDA-inspected meat from a supermarket, or from a local farmer.

*Dogs with chronic tummy issues often need lower-fat diets -- that means LEAN meat, not cheap stuff -- they're at higher risk of pancreatitis from fatty meals. *Pancreatitis is awful, and just one fatty meal (or even just moderately fatty one) can trigger it. They may not digest fat the same way as healthy dogs. Expect a huge vet bill for an emergency visit if you get a pancreatitis flare -- it looks like bloat in terms of symptoms, is terribly painful, and once it starts, they're have some risk of recurrence.

If there's IBD, he likely needs more fiber than a "normal" dog. It makes a HUGE difference for them (so much so that some vets prescribe psyllium). The Honest Kitchen's base mixes have natural sources of fiber from simple dehydrated fruit and veg, which may explain why it works so stinking well for so many dogs with chronic gut issues. My vet thinks we had low-grade, sub-clinical IBD with no symptoms for years on The Honest Kitchen because the food was helping managing it for us. There's a good test for IBD from Texas A&M -- it's a bit of a pain to run because the dog has to be fasted for the blood draw (early AM vet visit), then it has to be boxed up and Fed Exed to the lab and be shipped out Mon-Tue-Wed only for overnight delivery. The TAMU lab is closed Fri-Sun and can't accept deliveries those days. My vet had me pay the Fed Ex bill as part of the cost, and it's quite a lot to overnight a box of blood vials. I think with blood draw, Fed Ex, and lab fee, we were in for over $300 on that test. But it came back with a report telling us he needed additional supplements, and spotted a low-grade pancreatitis issue.

The other thing the THK fruit and veg seems to bring to the table is a bunch of anti-inflammatory phytonutrients, including quercitin, in their whole form. That seem to help some dogs with food allergies. I'm convinced that there's a "cooling effect" these phytonutrients have on inflamed guts. They're also full of natural prebiotics which may help with repopulating good gut flora. Like I said, I've tried to rotate -- and I _love _the ingredient list on Dr. Harvey's Paradigm base mix -- but something about THK just works better for my particular dog. Dr. Harvey's should be on your list to look at though, if you decide to consider a base mix. They make good options that space.


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