# German Shepherd vs. Greater Swiss Mountain Dog?



## carsona246 (Feb 17, 2014)

Hey everyone, 
I've been a long time lurker, and have been trying to decide between a german shepherd or a rottie for a long time now. If everything goes according to plan, I should be financially sound to afford a dog within the year, and have been allowing myself to do some more research on dogs. I just recently discovered a new breed I have not heard about before. 
I am looking for a medium-large sized dog that will have natural guarding instincts. I have a hard time sleeping at night, and I believe I will feel more comfortable with a "guard dog". I do not expect this dog to protect me in any way shape or form, it will only be a family dog. 
Previously I was leaning towards getting a german shepherd because most people are fearful of rotties, and I do not associate german shepherds with a negative stigma(Rotties also drool). The downside to gsd's are their energy level. I am a fairly active person, but would prefer a dog who can relax at home when I'm feeling lazy. I do run roughly 3 miles a day, but would prefer a dog with a smaller exercise requirement. 
Has anyone had experience with Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs? They seem like a very nice mix of large dog, good personality and they do not drool. I would love to hear from someone with experience with both gsd's and gsmd's. I like the idea of teaching the dog to pull carts, and can easily see myself carting either dog. 
This will be my first dog, but my current job is a children's case manager. I have a lot of experience with behavior modification involving children, and expect at least some of that knowledge to transfer over. 
The reason I am considering a GSMD over a GSD are: 
less energy
shorter hair
larger(I just feel more comfortable with larger dogs)
However, I have read that GSD's are very eager to please, which is ideal for a first dog.
To cut this long post rather short, if anyone has experience with either, which do you believe would be a better first dog?
I have worked at a vet's office, and had family dog's, just never had a dog that was "mine".
Also my wife and I never plan to reproduce, so children are not a factor.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

I would have kept the Swissy I transported last year if I could have. She was a sweet heart. She would have tried to be a lap dog if she hadn't been crated while I drove. The family who dumped her are idiots (they got a new puppy and didn't want to deal with her stress-related gastro issues).

Not an expert but Swissy's are LARGE dogs. Much bigger than a Rott or a GSD. They do drool and gastro issues are pretty much a given.

If you go with a Swissy be just as careful about breeders. They have been picked up by BYBs and mills and they have enough issues when responsibly bred, never mind when they are just being produced for money.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

My cousin had a greater Swiss for 11 years. He had a fabulous rottie before that. He did not like the greater Swiss as much as he liked the rottie but part of that was because he felt the energy level was too low in the greater Swiss. So that sounds like it might be a fit for you. He did not find them is easy to train but that could've been a individual dog thing too.


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## carsona246 (Feb 17, 2014)

From what I've read GSMD's are considered a dry mouth breed. Is that wrong? 
That is another difficult thing I have discovered with GSMD's is there is not a lot of resources for finding good breeders. I've found a forum for them, but it is not nearly as active as this one is. 
I've always heard that GSD's have a ton of health issues as well, so I considered breed specific health problems to be a draw on both. Would you consider GSD's to have less health problems?


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

A solid well bread gsd should not have any health problems however there are no guarantees. Like humans every dog is different. Gsd as a breed are more energetic than most others, however I find that exercising there mind wears them out more than physician exercise. 
Find a good breeder, tell him what your after.
And gsd's don't drool much at all
Hope that helps 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

knew a lady that had Great Dane (from rescue) and Greater Swiss Mt Dog . Lovely animals - but consider http://www.cherishedswissies.com/breed_info.hm 

Put in the same genomic type "mastiff" in the Ostrander's canine genome study , and mentioned in von Stephanitz's book page 89 - 91 (91) . He thanks Prof Heim for pictures and comprehensive essay . 
He writes about the curly tail , the pendulous, small and triangular ears, the wolf-claws , even doubles (dew claws rear) wide skull and powerful head --- traits associated with the Wurtemberger land race herding dogs incorporated as one of the 4 strains forming the GSD. 
Page 91 von Stephanitz says "the impression of a real shepherd dog type. Anyone acquainted with the South German , particularly Wurtemberg, working shepherd-dogs, has certainly seen dogs resembling them employed with the flocks."
He makes further comments on page 33 about "genetic obedience" the "aptitude and clever initiative" held in common quote "one might write the same about our own shepherd dogs"


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

here is Ostrander's canine genomic study graph which places GSD and Bernese and Greater Swiss Mountain dog in the same "mastiff" group http://genome.cshlp.org/content/15/12/1706/F2.large.jpg


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## anitram (Feb 28, 2014)

I know somebody with a female GSMD. My 7 month old GSD has played with her a few times as she has a really stable temperament and doesn't mind his rough style of play or his repeated efforts to climb on top of her.

I am not as familiar with the GSMD breed standard BUT if it is anything like this dog, then there is a world of difference between them and GSDs. She is very, very sweet and more friendly with strangers than Hans. But she also seems to have like 1/10th of the energy that he does. Doesn't really care to run around or give chase much, seems to prefer short walks around the neighbourhood rather than going on off leash hikes or runs, etc. She has no guard dog behaviours that I've noticed at all, though she is fairly enormous so that may be a deterrent in itself. Really a lovely family pet, but a bit too low-key/lazy for us so wouldn't fit our active lifestyle as much as Hans does. Though there are many days when I wish he'd just take a chill pill, haha.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

GSMD cannot go jogging. Short lifespan like giant breeds.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

d4mmo said:


> A solid well bread gsd should not have any health problems however there are no guarantees. Like humans every dog is different. Gsd as a breed are more energetic than most others, however I find that exercising there mind wears them out more than physician exercise.
> Find a good breeder, tell him what your after.
> And gsd's don't drool much at all
> Hope that helps
> ...


Unless they sit and watch you eat pretzels, fruit, dinner, lunch, candy, ice cream...:wild:


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I don't see any similarities between a GSMD and a GSD?? 

I also don't view a GSD as a very good choice as a first dog for most folks. Based on what your looking for and as long as your still in the research phase...I would start looking at King Shepard’s. A dog that looks like a GSD but is not a GSD.That means something!

Also consider fostering or rescue work another great way to gain experience with diffrent breeds.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Most of the breeders and information I found on GSMDs says they are unusually difficulty to housetrain.


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## iIrishSean (Mar 30, 2014)

d4mmo said:


> A solid well bread gsd should not have any health problems however there are no guarantees. Like humans every dog is different. Gsd as a breed are more energetic than most others, however I find that exercising there mind wears them out more than physician exercise.
> Find a good breeder, tell him what your after.
> And gsd's don't drool much at all
> Hope that helps
> ...


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## Marilyn.Lambert (Jul 29, 2014)

Is it possible to meet local breeders and interact with their dogs to see if you like the temperament of the parents? Doing as much real world experience as possible with the breeds you are interested in is crucial. The best experience I had was when I was training a GSD for a client of mine. I have never seen a dog who wanted to learn as much as he did. He made a mark on my heart and I knew I had to get a GSD. :blush:


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## carsona246 (Feb 17, 2014)

Wow I thought this thread had died after a week, sorry I didn't check sooner. These dog's can definitely jog. They may have less energy than a GSD, but being a large breed does not make them incapable of jogging and exercising on a regular basis, they are still working dogs. 
I have read that GSMD's are more friendly around strangers, but I thought they would have a guarding instinct at home. I might have to ask a breeder about that one. 
I have read the same thing about house-breaking, and it's a huge con of the breed.
I see some similarities between the breeds, as both dogs are larger breeds, are supposed to have a history of guarding, and are both working dogs. I haven't heard of king's shepherds yet, so I might look into those. 

I actually move next week, so the second I have a stable job after I move, I will be locating breeders of both breeds to hopefully interact with both dogs. 
I realize that this will be my 1st dog, but my current job is to modify children's behaviors. I have worked at a vet's office, and had a family dog since I can remember. I feel fairly confident that I will be able to train either breed appropriately with training classes and research. 
Anyone else have any personal experience with GSMD's and GSD's?


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

carsona246 said:


> Wow I thought this thread had died after a week, sorry I didn't check sooner. *These dog's can definitely jog.* They may have less energy than a GSD, but being a large breed does not make them incapable of jogging and exercising on a regular basis, they are still working dogs.
> I have read that GSMD's are more friendly around strangers, but I thought they would have a guarding instinct at home. I might have to ask a breeder about that one.
> I have read the same thing about house-breaking, and it's a huge con of the breed.
> I see some similarities between the breeds, as both dogs are larger breeds, are supposed to have a history of guarding, and are both working dogs. I haven't heard of king's shepherds yet, so I might look into those.
> ...


So sorry--brain freeze! I was thinking *Bernese* Mountain Dog. When i was deciding if I wanted one, I visited a breeder who sold internationally and she said a Bernese definitely should not be a jogging companion.


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## carsona246 (Feb 17, 2014)

Oh wow, I did not know that about Bernese mountain dog's. They are supposed to be closely related if I remember correctly, so I guess I should ask a breeder about that as well. I've never heard of a King Shepherds before, but I'm reading some good stuff about them.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Moriah said:


> So sorry--brain freeze! I was thinking *Bernese* Mountain Dog. When i was deciding if I wanted one, I visited a breeder who sold internationally and she said a Bernese definitely should not be a jogging companion.


Why is that? is it because of the sheer size of them or their coats? what about a jogging partner in the cooler months?


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

The breeder said Bernese are very closely related to Newfoundlands and are very heavy of bone and the pounding of jogging is very bad on their joints. They also have the life span of Newfies--about 9 years.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

If you want a Swiss Mountain Dog for a jogging partner, I suggest an Entlebucher.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

The Bernese breeder had a great story. A buyer was coming from Japan and was going to stay with her. He sent her the flight info. When she got to SeaTac airport nothing matched up and the guy wasn't there. She called him on his cell. He indeed had arrived, but he thought she lived in Washington DC. He had to catch the next flight back to Seattle from Washington DC!


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## carsona246 (Feb 17, 2014)

So I've been doing a lot of research on King's Shepherd and Shiloh Shepherd's and apparently there is some controversy over the subject. From what I've read they seem to be similar in their desire to please their owner, but have considerably less drive and energy, which may not be a bad thing for me. Does anyone have a short haired Shiloh Shepherd? I have a long haired cat, and his hair somehow gets into everything, so I was hoping to go as short haired as possible. A GSD was kind of pushing it as I've read they shed fairly constantly. Shiloh's seem to be crazy fluffy.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

David Winners said:


> If you want a Swiss Mountain Dog for a jogging partner, I suggest an Entlebucher.



I have a dog show friend that has an Entlebucher puppy. She took it, and her Greater Swiss Mountain dogs, to do Barn Hunt when I took Carly. Cute dog!


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## carsona246 (Feb 17, 2014)

I'm sure the Entlebucher's are great dogs, but a little smaller than I would prefer.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

The problems you're going to come across with a swissie is they're still a pretty rare breed in most places. They're like a well kept secret. They can be difficult to train as well. 

The stigma you've heard about with rotties also applies to german shepherds. They all have an image be it good or bad depending on where you are. Swissie's can be a very nice breed though. They're sweet natured but can guard and alert easily. They will take a bit more time in training than a rottie or a GSD, but from what you describe you're looking for, a Swissie could be the way to go. If you go that route, be extremely careful about selecting your breeder.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

carsona246 said:


> So I've been doing a lot of research on King's Shepherd and Shiloh Shepherd's and apparently there is some controversy over the subject. From what I've read they seem to be similar in their desire to please their owner, but have considerably less drive and energy, which may not be a bad thing for me. Does anyone have a short haired Shiloh Shepherd? I have a long haired cat, and his hair somehow gets into everything, so I was hoping to go as short haired as possible. A GSD was kind of pushing it as I've read they shed fairly constantly. Shiloh's seem to be crazy fluffy.


There are stock coat shiloh's but they're not bred for to my knowledge.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

All of the breeds that you've mentioned will shed heavily whether long or stock coated. 

I considered Shilohs & Kings yrs back but ultimately felt that they generally have too many health & temperament problems. From reading & talking to people heavily involved in the breeds, I felt the temperament, especially in Shiloh's, is excessively soft for my tastes.

IF Shilohs or Kings have any appeal for you consider a GSD fom Old Fashioned lines. The dogs & their breeders are widely disparaged on this site, yet those who own them & live with them, return time after time for a 2nd, 3rd & 4th GSD. Good breeders of the Old Fashioned lines produce structurally sound, strong, healthy, long lived, uber stable, very biddable GSDs that make outstanding companions, service & assistance dogs. They settle well but do require adequate mental & physical exercise.

Please feel free to pm me with any questions.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Oh no0000 - "consider a GSD fom Old Fashioned lines. The dogs & their breeders are widely disparaged on this site, yet those who own them & live with them, return time after time for a 2nd, 3rd & 4th GSD. Good breeders of the Old Fashioned lines produce structurally sound, strong, healthy, long lived, uber stable, very biddable GSDs that make outstanding companions, service & assistance dogs. They settle well but do require adequate mental & physical exercise"

name one. Old Fashioned are not old fashioned - evidence - http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...961-historic-gsd-photo-collection-thread.html

lively debate http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breeding-general/131936-old-fashioned-really.html


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Carmen, the words in my post were capitalized because the lines are commonly known as Old Fashioned. Most WL rarely work yet are still identified as WL. Most SL dogs are seldon shown yet are still known as SL. 

The _lively debates_ about these dogs too often consists of little more than vehement opposition from people that neither breed em, live with them, or know anything about the dogs beyond the appalling misinformation which is scattered throughout the forum & has become gospel to those of the Fundamentalist Standard Faith.

Those that have lived with them, love them & return to their breeders repeatedly to get a 2nd, 3rd & 4th GSD, are a much better source of accurate information. It sounds very much as though this is the type of GSD that would suit the OP perfectly, hence my recommendation.

This site could certainly benefit from actual debates, lively or sedate, but I doubt that will happen. Acrimony coupled with misinformation, deliberate falsehoods repeated ad nauseum, & all of it to perpetrate a particular groups idea of the GSD, is not the stuff debates are made of.

As I stated in my earlier post, good breeders of the Old Fashioned lines produce structurally sound, strong, healthy, long lived, uber stable, very biddable GSDs that make outstanding companions, service & assistance dogs. THIS is my personal experience with the 3 GSDs I acquired from Royalair, a breeder of the Old Fashioned lines. Further, that experience has been mirrored over & over with others who have her GSDs. Nor is she the only source for these GSDs that so many have found so desirable for for so many decades.

The OP absolutely should look closely at these GSDs & then make an informed decision as to whether one would be a good fit for her.


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## carsona246 (Feb 17, 2014)

I've gotten a ton to think about, I'm still doing research. Thank you guys for all the advice/opinions so far.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I'd take the GSD over the GSWD as long as it went more than 7 rounds.


SuperG


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Old Fashioned , they are fashioned all right , nothing Old or Olde or oldy timey about them. 
Lots of information about this on the http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/462193-book-doc-11.html


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## carsona246 (Feb 17, 2014)

Let me ask you guys a question, would a 3 miles jog in the morning, and an afternoon walk be enough exercise for a working line GSD? I understand they will require mental stimulation as well, but I've read some posts in which members claim an awful lot of physical exercise for their dogs daily. I think the most intimidating thing I have read about owning a GSD, is the amount of time people claim to spend exercising their dog. I would prefer a working line GSD, as I am more concerned with the dog's temperament, and am not overly concerned with it's appearance. However, I do not want an animal that would require more than 1 or so hours of physical stimulation daily. I can easily see myself running for half an hour in the morning, and then another walk in the evening.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

an hour of jogging a day should should suffice. thats about what my "track" and cross country girls did for my gsd. she was very high drive and that would keep calm. now if you are going run in the "concrete jungle" i think that might be too rough on the joints and hips as well as feet. but others may have more insight on that aspect of jogging.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

carsona, a WL GSD can go from 0-100 in a second, but they can also go back from 100-0. My dog is very high drive (has trouble capping her drives) but is wonderful in the house with a good off switch.

I don't run. Ever. lol And my dog is fine.

Nosework is great for a GSD. It works their brains, which is more exhausting to them than physical exercise. Physical exercise is great too, but I don't find it tires my dog out nearly as well. A nice mix of both is ideal.

I'd say a moderate amount of exercise, and some mental workouts (obedience, nosework etc) will keep the average WL GSD quite happy, and the mental workouts I find are a great way to bond and work together with your dog as a team, which is as enriching to the owner as much as the dog.


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