# Tried lots, but Zeppelin still growls when eating and we are near him



## SARAHSMITH (Sep 19, 2010)

Hope someone has a suggestion to help us. Out shepherd is just over one year old. At about 9 months he starting growling if we pet him when he was eating his food. 

My husband tried a technique that I disagreed with, which was yelling and hitting him with a rolled up newspaper. Then, Zeppelin started peeing if we corrected him for growling, but yet he still growled.

We tried my suggestions, which so far include giving Zeppelin yummy treats as he is eating and we are petting him, to make him think us petting him while he eats is a good thing that results in really good food. While his has stopped peeing, the growling got even louder.

He is actually getting worse, now growling if we are even in the same room as his food, even without us petting him.

Then, we started emptying about 1/5th of his food in his bowl, making him sit and stay before allowing him to eat, then adding a bit of food every time we enter the room. In the evening he is better using this method (although he still growls when I enter the last portion in his bowl) but his growling is still really bad in the mornings.

Not sure if this makes a difference, but he is not neutered. Upon reading this forum and our vets suggestion we are trying to wait til his is 2 yrs.

We are at our wits end. Does anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Why are you petting him while he is eating? Why can't you leave him alone?
For starters, I agree that you should be able to do anything (within reason) to a dog while eating. But yelling and beating is very counter-productive if not downright mean. There are many people in this forum more knowledgeable than me who I hope will contribute.
My opinion is that you need to start over by hand feeding. There are many threads in the behavior section that address resource guarding. Please look at those.


----------



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Don't pet your dog while he is eating. Would you like somebody to do that to you? 

LIke Paddy said, you have to start from the beginning. Start hand feeding, quit yelling at your dog. That will get you nowhere! The dog is going to think you are unpredictable and dangerous and will want to protect himself. 

The peeing was his first attempt to appease you. That didn't work and he is switching to aggression. 

If nothing else, give him his food and leave the room so he can eat in peace.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would also start hand feeding him his meals one piece at a time..I also agree, when he is eating, he should be left alone/or feed him in his crate ..


----------



## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

SARAHSMITH said:


> My husband tried a technique that I disagreed with, which was yelling and hitting him with a rolled up newspaper. Then, Zeppelin started peeing if we corrected him for growling, but yet he still growled.


 Oh boy your husband put you in a BIG hole!!! Sorry but he is the one that should be corrected with a rolled up newspaper! That type of negative reinforcement can only lead to your dog protecting himself. When he does and bites someone then he, of course, will be blamed and labeled as a vicious dog. 

You have a rather lengthy trip ahead of you, I agree that you need to start from scratch. Having him eat from your hand is a good start.

I would agree that you should be able to be in close proximity to your dog but there really is no reason to pet him while he is eating. Give him his space.
Good luck.


----------



## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

We've had so much 'fun' with Woolf's fear aggression that we did not want issues with food to start, especially since there is another dog in the house.

What we did was hand feed him some of his meals to begin with, other meals just simply tossed in something good, such as some chicken or other meat we were eating, or pieces of cheese. We still toss in good stuff now occasionally.

Try the same method.


----------



## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

The submissive peeing is the tell. The dog is very afraid of your husband and possibly you also. You have given him the impression that you cannot be trusted. A very bad thing but a fact as things stand now. You can change it, but it will take time. 

Food is very important to your dog. It is something they look forward to and deserve to enjoy in peace. Everybody leave the room when the dog eats. Feed him small amounts from your hand at odd times throughout the day -- if he even trusts you enough to eat from your hand. 

IMHO, if you continue down the path you are on, the dog may one day decide the world would be a better place if your husband had one less hand to smack him with.


----------



## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

Please don't have your husband beat your dog with a news paper. That is just *WRONG*! Tell your husband to stop! Plus there is no need to pet your dog while he is eating. Just let him eat and pet him later. You would like someone petting you and all in your face if you were eating?? I have to feed my two dogs separately. Your making your dog scared and he will start to act out in that fear if you keep this up. I mean this firm and nicley. Your off to a good start by asking for help. Please take that advice and hopefully things will turn around for you.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

You should make eating time a good time for your dog. It will take a good amount of time but you will be able to convince your dog that you or your family being around while he has his meal is a good thing. hand feeding is a great start! you could feed all of his food that way (takes time but really does help the relationship).

Eventually there is no reason for you not to be able to pet your dog while he is eating or for that matter to take anything including food out of his mouth while he is eating (once he trusts you!).

And like some already said, use the newspaper on your husband not the dog next time. or at least let him see all these posts!

Good luck and expect the change to take a good amount of time but it will work!


----------



## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

I think you know yourself that the hitting thing wasn't a good idea. A lot of focus will be put on that fact but you said yourself that it was wrong so now to the bigger issue... 
Hand feeding is a good start to building up trust. You could also try using his meals during training so that he associates that all food comes from you. Placing the food in a bowl gives him a chance to guard it but feeding through out the day will prevent this behaviour. It will take time but your focus now is to build back up your relationship. If you need to feed from a bowl I would suggest you do so while he is a crate, this will help him feel safer during meal times that nobody will be coming up behind him or bother him. 
Taking things slowly is now the goal with your boy.


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Well, at this point, as others pointed out...many things have been done that will emcourage the food aggression, not diminish it. I would get into a training class where lots of positive reinforcement is used. Rebuild a relationship of trust through good training and fun times with your dog while working together. As for the food aggression, leave him alone while eating and you will likely experience no food aggression from him.


----------



## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

I don't play around with my dog while he's eating either. He still has some resource aggression issues which I am working on though.

For the food, make sure to make him work for it (sit, down, stay, etc. until 'EAT' command is given). And try feeding him by hand too.


----------



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

This is an amazing thread both on the part of the OP and some of the advice.

My GSDs are indoor dogs, and they sleep at the foot of my bed...they are part of the family...protectors of hearth and home. I also have five children, and resource guarding is something I cannot allow in my home.

When we bring a puppy home, EVERY single time the dog is fed, the dog gets handled, pets, touches, and hands in the food bowl. I have the children put their hands in the bowl and feed the puppy by hand. We calmly take the bowl in the middle of feeding and then give it back with praise...a moment later we take it again, and of course give it back again.

This goes on from eight weeks and continues for months, until I am confident there is consistently no issue. Which frankly, if you follow a similar routine from eight weeks, there shouldn't be an issue. My five year old daughter can walk up to either of my dogs and pull a steak out of their mouths with the only result being a dog waiting for her to give it back.

As for the rolled-up news paper...this is a very important tool in dog training. Keep it handy. When you do something stupid with your dog....step in front of a mirror and smack yourself with it.

At present, I would suggest to the OP sitting on the floor at the dog's level and only hand feeding. Start with yourself. Feed EVERYTHING by hand, while talking to your pup in a soothing/calm voice. After a period of time, take small portions from your hand and place it in the bowl, while sitting close (proximity). If there is a negative reaction from the dog, say "no" in an easy voice and revert back to hand feeding....then try putting a bit more in the bowl. Once you can put a small portion in the bowl without any negative reaction from the dog while you're close...then progress to touching while they take the next small portion from the bowl.

The goal here is very simple...trust. Your dog needs to learn you can be trusted, and there is no need to guard the resource. My dogs view the children as nothing more than an interruption....never a threat to their food.

When you have achieved success between you and the dog...then work your husband into the routine. Of course, this will not work if he continues to yell and swat the dog......trust is a fragile thing.

Best of luck.


----------



## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Just to establish I am not simply blowing hot air....here is my five year old daughter interrupting my twelve month old working line SchH pup while she is eating.









Again, best of luck.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't know what impresses me more...your kids messing with your pup, or your house being spotless with two dogs and two kids in the picture....


----------



## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

When we bring a puppy home, EVERY single time the dog is fed, the dog gets handled, pets, touches, and hands in the food bowl. I have the children put their hands in the bowl and feed the puppy by hand. We calmly take the bowl in the middle of feeding and then give it back with praise...

*I agree with statement. This reduces IMO issues later in life when trying to their handle food (for any reason). Therefore my dogs past and presents do not have this problem. The OP said she has had this dog 1.5 years and the dog is 2 years now. So maybe previous over didn't have the knowledge to work on this. So far the husband has only made the issue worse. Time to start over. I recommend talking with a trainer to work on the issue. Or try your self earning trust from your dog by hand feeding. Yes each kibble. Also make him practice some OB while your at it. It will help you bond. Take turns with your husband this way he can mend the bond he broken of the food. Hope this helps. *


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm curious what the OP does while the dog is eating. Are you creeping around the dog to avoid the issue? Are you and hubby waiting for a reaction so you can correct it? What is the dog's enviroment like while it eats?


----------



## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

W.Oliver said:


> Just to establish I am not simply blowing hot air....here is my five year old daughter interrupting my twelve month old working line SchH pup while she is eating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks kinda painful...


----------



## SARAHSMITH (Sep 19, 2010)

Everyone will be happy to know that once our dog starting peeing my husband realized his technique was wrong and felt awful and never did it again. It was against everything I learned in puppy class, where we used all positive reinforcement. I had told him we should put yummy food in his dish as we approached him to help stop the growling (and we did for a few weeks without any improvement) but a police officer told my husband that he had to be the boss (alpha) when training German Shepherds. Bad advice, I know!

This is the dogs environment when eating. We have a mud room which always had his food and water bowl. We tell him to sit and stay, pour the food in his bowl, and that's about it. Like I said, when he was about 9 months old I went near him and he growled at me. He's a huge male, and it scared me. Plus I have a 9 yr old and I feared she might hug or pet him and something bad might happen. So began our journey to make him stop growling.

If we hold the bowl or feed him from our hand he will not growl. Only when we put the food in his dish. My husband has not hit him for months and we've tried to be patient with feeding by hand or putting yummy food in his dish but to no avail. Tonight I feed him by hand, just making him sit while I fed him and giving him lots of praise. How long do you think this might take?


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

W.Oliver said:


> Just to establish I am not simply blowing hot air....here is my five year old daughter interrupting my twelve month old working line SchH pup while she is eating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is too cute! (as long as she isn't pulling too hard! and it doesn't look like it at all)

Absolutely the best way to go and is something that we have done with all our pups. Not one of them EVER showed any food/resource aggression to anybody - including neighbor kids who happen to be around when we fed the dog! Critical when you have kids around to do this!

We got a picture somewhere of our toddler sitting with his legs around the dog food bowl and handing out a kibble at a time to first one of our dogs and then one to the other. Both dogs are just sitting in front of him patiently (as they should be in my opinion!).


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

You have made a lot of progress. You might try having him sit and watch you put the food in his dish, a couple handfuls and let him start eating it, then take it away. If his reaction is OK then put more in the dish and try it again. If his response is not good return to hand feeding and try again later. If he allows you to take the dish away then leave him alone. Occasionally take the dish away, briefly, or put your hand in to make sure he is 'cured'. If not, start over.


----------



## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

I think everyone has given some really good advice, but just wanted to add that if you want a *little* reading to do, their is a highly recommended pamplet about resource guarding:

Amazon.com: Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs (9780970562944): Jean Donaldson: Books

I'm a sucker for cheap used books!

If I were you, I would feed my dog somewhere that no-one would bother him (or even look at him) like in his crate in a quiet room. I would do things to increase my dog's confidence and trust in me (positive training, classes, puzzles/games where he always wins...). Then I would very slowly work on the methods that everyone is suggesting.


----------



## Lenny (Jul 25, 2005)

Keep the hand feeding going and I would feed him in a different place every time. Bedroom, kitchen, living room, etc... Also, go from feeding hand to bowl in hand to bowl on floor and back and forth. 
Everybody calm down on scolding the op on the hitting. She made it clear from the beginning that she knows it was not the right thing. Good luck.


----------



## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

SARAHSMITH said:


> If we hold the bowl or feed him from our hand he will not growl. Only when we put the food in his dish. My husband has not hit him for months and we've tried to be patient with feeding by hand or putting yummy food in his dish but to no avail. Tonight I feed him by hand, just making him sit while I fed him and giving him lots of praise. How long do you think this might take?


Sometimes people create a monster and then want a magic wand to fix it immediately. This is not a dominance issue or an aggression issue. It is fear.
.
Why do you continue to torment the dog while he eats? No dog should have to put up with that. If the mud room is off limits to everyone while the dog eats there will be no problem and the growling will resolve itself when the dog learns to trust you and respect you. Do you see how you are setting the dog up to fail. He's afraid you will take his food and hit him and you are reinforcing the fear by hovering over him. Don't let this become habitual!!! Dogs have a long memory and yours is remembering that someone might stop hovering over him long enough to hit him. This isn't gonna go away in a week or even a month. You still have a bullying attitude. You will know when he trusts you because he will stop growling.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

So, you go to a restaurant and order a nice big meal, and just as you start eating, a wait-staff comes by and grabs your plate away. Wouldn't you object?
A dog only has his voice to object, not a nice "Hey I was not done yet, please leave my bowl alone!" That's what he was saying.
You didn't listen to him, and just like if you were in a restaurant and got upset with the wait-staff, your dog got upset with you.

Why people expect dogs to "think" like humans do is beyond me. You were communicating (in your mind) for him to stop guarding his food and relax about eating, and in his mind, he thought he was losing his meal! Since he was hungry, he didn't like that thought at all. Because he's a dog, he did not (nor will he) understand you mean well, and things will get worse, as you've seen.

We were talking about bites in another thread and I forgot one incident with a foster we had, she had eye surgery and I needed to put an Elizabethan-collar on her so she would not scratch her eye. Well every other dog I've had allows me to slip it over their head and then tie the little string inside the loops that way. So I headed towards her with this big plastic thing and attempt to place it on her head. 
She was so afraid of it she backed up against a wall and yet I ignored her body language and her whining, which was her way of saying "I'm scared, please don't do that!" I should have simply quit and opened the e-collar and placed it on that way but I kept going at her thinking she'll calm down and accept it. 
Well she shot out of the little corner I had her in (against the wall) and as she went by, her mouth was wide open and she nailed my arm. She didn't bite down. Had she done so I'd have gotten worse than the bruise I wound up with. I didn't count it as a "bite" since I provoked her by scaring the bee-jeezus out of her...but the key here is, I ignored her body language and her whine/growl and I caused the incident to occur. I knew what her body language was saying. I just ignored it anyway, my mistake. I learned a lot from that event. 
I learned every dog has a bite threshold and if you reach it, you may get bitten. It's different for every dog. But many people would have chalked her up to "vicious" or "aggressive" for that, I know this because people want to give us their dogs all the time for this kind of thing, or they place them up for adoption on craigslist. 

People really do need to learn not only what a dog is saying with it's body language and vocalizations, but also how to respond appropriately. 

Sorry to go OT but I think it needs to be said, over and over, dogs are dogs, not people, they are communicating constantly with their body language and it's humans who cause problems when they either ignore the language, or misinterpret it. 
It's a wonder more people aren't bitten daily or even killed by their dogs. It is a testament to these wonderful animal's nature that they are so forgiving.


----------



## Lenny (Jul 25, 2005)

Marnie said:


> Sometimes people create a monster and then want a magic wand to fix it immediately. This is not a dominance issue or an aggression issue. It is fear.
> .
> Why do you continue to torment the dog while he eats? No dog should have to put up with that. If the mud room is off limits to everyone while the dog eats there will be no problem and the growling will resolve itself when the dog learns to trust you and respect you. Do you see how you are setting the dog up to fail. He's afraid you will take his food and hit him and you are reinforcing the fear by hovering over him. Don't let this become habitual!!! Dogs have a long memory and yours is remembering that someone might stop hovering over him long enough to hit him. This isn't gonna go away in a week or even a month. You still have a bullying attitude. You will know when he trusts you because he will stop growling.


Marnie, torment? Standing by or petting your dog. Torment? Really?
OP don't listen to this mess above. You should be able to stand near your dog while they eat and ignoring the issue will do nothing. Just like bullying some stranger over an internet forum doesn't do much either. The way some people go off on others on this site is sad and not productive.
It will take time just keep it up.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Fiddling with the dog and making it nervous while it eats is tantamount to "torment", yes. If you don't think so, why is the dog reacting like it is being tormented??

Petting your dog when it's not worried about losing it's meal, is a horse of a different color.

Not to mention beating it with a newspaper while it's eating "so it will learn to not growl at them", yes, that's a huge problem, IMO.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Lost my post! 

OP: Please pm me - I have an idea. 

This is a situation where the dog has gotten to growling (good - it's a warning - keep going and you will lose the growl and then the dog and you will be screwed) and has actually peed himself so this is an extreme situation which can result in serious consequences. 

It helps to have a person in real life to help you but leaving the dog alone - totally alone - is your first step. Let him eat in peace. 

For everyone who CAN and DOES do these things to their dogs, now is not the time to suggest that it can be done and this is not the situation to do it in. 

Leave the dog alone.


----------



## Sunstreaked (Oct 26, 2010)

W.Oliver said:


> This is an amazing thread both on the part of the OP and some of the advice.
> 
> My GSDs are indoor dogs, and they sleep at the foot of my bed...they are part of the family...protectors of hearth and home. I also have five children, and resource guarding is something I cannot allow in my home.


I more than agree with this. I think it's practically mandatory. 



> When we bring a puppy home, EVERY single time the dog is fed, the dog gets handled, pets, touches, and hands in the food bowl. I have the children put their hands in the bowl and feed the puppy by hand. We calmly take the bowl in the middle of feeding and then give it back with praise...a moment later we take it again, and of course give it back again.


Again, I think this is mandatory. The dog learns that humans = food = treats = no threat. Resource guarding doesn't get a chance to start as the resources are always there. 



> This goes on from eight weeks and continues for months, until I am confident there is consistently no issue. Which frankly, if you follow a similar routine from eight weeks, there shouldn't be an issue. My five year old daughter can walk up to either of my dogs and pull a steak out of their mouths with the only result being a dog waiting for her to give it back.


And THIS is the result. 



> As for the rolled-up news paper...this is a very important tool in dog training. Keep it handy. When you do something stupid with your dog....step in front of a mirror and smack yourself with it.


I literally burst out laughing at this. 



> At present, I would suggest to the OP sitting on the floor at the dog's level and only hand feeding. Start with yourself. Feed EVERYTHING by hand, while talking to your pup in a soothing/calm voice. After a period of time, take small portions from your hand and place it in the bowl, while sitting close (proximity). If there is a negative reaction from the dog, say "no" in an easy voice and revert back to hand feeding....then try putting a bit more in the bowl. Once you can put a small portion in the bowl without any negative reaction from the dog while you're close...then progress to touching while they take the next small portion from the bowl.


Really excellent advice. I would only add that I personally would not feed the dog wherever it currently eats - pretty much anywhere else to avoid bad associations. 



> The goal here is very simple...trust. Your dog needs to learn you can be trusted, and there is no need to guard the resource. My dogs view the children as nothing more than an interruption....never a threat to their food.


That's really the whole thing, isn't it? We all have or are going to have a 65-100+ dog that could be a danger to us, kids, society at large and it all comes down to (mostly) how they are raised. (Not trying to start a nature vs nurture debate). 

Fair and consistent are two really important words to me - whether it's raising kids or dogs. Be fair in what you are asking for - is it something they are capable of doing at whatever stage they are in? Be consistent in what you expect. 

I would also add "be trustworthy". 



> ......trust is a fragile thing.


QFT.


----------



## Lenny (Jul 25, 2005)

msvette2u said:


> Not to mention beating it with a newspaper while it's eating "so it will learn to not growl at them", yes, that's a huge problem, IMO.


Actually it has been mentioned about 35 times. I think she and everyone else gets the point.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Lenny...you argued they were not "tormenting" the dog in your above post. I figured you'd missed the part about the hitting with a newspaper. I guess you don't consider that "torment", even while a dog is eating?


----------



## SARAHSMITH (Sep 19, 2010)

I knew being honest would mean I'd have to take criticism. But that's OK, I'm looking for answers from knowledgeable and caring folks so it's worth the bruises.

For those who think the dog is growling because my husband hit him, please understand that first he growled at us ( and not for hovering or tormenting him but simple needing to get something that was near him while he was eating).
Then we went a while using other techniques that did NOT involve hitting but saw no change in behavior.
Then my husband used very bad judgement and listened to bad advice and hit him.
Then Zeppelin started peeing.
He does not pee anymore. He has not been hit many times and has not been hit in a very long time & thank goodness no longer pees.
He does still growl at us when we are near him or touch him while eating. 

Why do I want him to accept being touched or approached when eating? Because I believe this type of behavior is an accident waiting to happen. 
I'm the type who always wears my seatbelt "just in case".


----------



## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

You are right that he should allow people to interrupt him while eating. The dog is not king of the household. He can learn..heck, we raised tigers and we could take their food pan away..they were used to it! If they guard food..they start to guard other things.

It will happen.. someone will bump him..someone will forget..kids will be over.. etc...you want to know he is trustworthy. You are doing the right thing to research this and work it out. Many dogs go get euthanized because of resource guarding. Its not a safe habit!


----------



## Lenny (Jul 25, 2005)

msvette2u said:


> Lenny...you argued they were not "tormenting" the dog in your above post. I figured you'd missed the part about the hitting with a newspaper. I guess you don't consider that "torment", even while a dog is eating?


Of course hitting your dog is tormenting, but my point is she knows that. She said she knows that. Her husband did it and hasn't done it in several months. Everyone here knows that. So there is really no point in telling her that adnauseum. So either give some good advice or move on.


----------



## Lenny (Jul 25, 2005)

ponyfarm said:


> It will happen.. someone will bump him..someone will forget..kids will be over.. etc...you want to know he is trustworthy. You are doing the right thing to research this and work it out. Many dogs go get euthanized because of resource guarding. Its not a safe habit!


Well said.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Ok, I'm didn't go back and read everything (the newspaper stuff seemed to be a trainwreck...)

BUT, did you try no longer feeding any food from a food bowl?

Instead.

100% of the food for your dog comes from your pocket and from your hand. Throughout the day. 

Great article is: Eliminating Food Aggression in Dogs: How to Solve Aggressive Dog Behavior While a Dog is Eating | Suite101.com

Have you purchased/read The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell? 

dog behaviour, dog obedience, dog trainers, puppy training, dog rescue assistance, canine behaviour, canine obedience by Jan Fennell the Dog Listener Amichien Bonding





*The Dog Listener: Learn How to Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation *

Jan Fennell


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Lenny said:


> Of course hitting your dog is tormenting, but my point is she knows that. She said she knows that. Her husband did it and hasn't done it in several months. Everyone here knows that. So there is really no point in telling her that adnauseum. So either give some good advice or move on.


To be clear, I was not the one belaboring the point. It was you who took offense to another poster asking why they were "tormenting" the dog while it ate. **I wanted to add, that's how forums work, a thread could be days old and a poster comes along and responds to the 1st post in the thread. When that happens, it appears they are beating a dead horse so to speak, as others have already addressed the issue from the 1st post. But it appears that the new poster in the thread is repeating everyone else's advice/comments because the new poster didn't read all the subsequent posts, but rather responded to the 1st post. That's just how forums work.**

As for the rest, I'm up in the air a bit. I _expect_ a certain amount of resource guarding. Dogs are born doing it. If they did not resource guard, they'd die, literally. 
The OP in this case has made everything about his eating experience worse because of a misguided approach which she's seeking help for.
I think being able to walk near a dog while it's eating is fine, but not stick your hands in it's dish. When you start making the dog unsure and uneasy while it's eating, bad things start happening, because it's really not a legitimate training exercise or method. 

For anyone who is afraid their dog will become food protective, teach it NILIF, teach it "sit" and only feed it _after _it has sat. Otherwise you risk stressing your dog out and making it a bite risk.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I can't believe that anyone would be afraid to stick their hand in their own dog's food bowl! Or to take a toy or anything else right out of their mouth!

We have had numerous GSD's over the last many years and never have we ever had any doubts about doing that or having anyone in the family do so - including our young son. It was just the way we raised all of our dogs. 

Perhaps with a dog obtained as an adult one might have to work with them to achieve this but it is a very necessary thing to do esp. if one has children in the house.


----------



## Lenny (Jul 25, 2005)

MSVETTE2u said:


> That's just how forums work.**


 No it's not. For people who read the posts it works much more efficiently than that.

SS, are any of the techniques helping at all?


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Lenny said:


> No it's not. For people who read the posts it works much more efficiently than that.


So are you saying you've never read an OPs post, and before reading all the (up to 10) pages of replies, replied to the 1st post in a thread? 
That's great...but not everyone reads forums that way. 
Sometimes people respond to posts that are over a year old, in the same manner, and get accused of "dredging up" things, too


----------



## Lenny (Jul 25, 2005)

msvette2u said:


> So are you saying you've never read an OPs post, and before reading all the (up to 10) pages of replies, replied to the 1st post in a thread?
> That's great...but not everyone reads forums that way.
> Sometimes people respond to posts that are over a year old, in the same manner, and get accused of "dredging up" things, too


This thread is not a year old and not 10 pages long. She states in her first post she doesn't agree with what he did and not doing it anymore. Then several post on the first page go on and on about the hitting thing. So with this thread all you have to do is read the first page and know it's been very dealt with and she doesn't need to be berated.
I'm tired of this and I'm sure everyone else is as well. Have a good weekend everyone.


----------



## SARAHSMITH (Sep 19, 2010)

I do thank those who are not concentrating on the mistakes we've made being that I stated my husband knows it was wrong & we want to find the right way to handle things. 
I thought about being completely truthful before I posted because I have seen the wrath of responses to others who have posted some bad mistakes. 
I read advice that I think is similar to the advice in a book mentioned. So we are feeding one meal by hand as advised by many and the other meal we are entering the room with some really yummy food (mostly left over meat from dinner). We are not getting too close to him, but having him come to us and offering him the food. We do this several times while he is eating. Hoping to get closer and closer as time goes by.
I think I will also not feed him that one meal in the mud room, as someone mentioned that he could associate eating in there with bad experiences.


----------



## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Forget about what your husband did..its over. I just had an idea...Have you tried clicker training him? Its so fun, it involves food and lots of positive reinforcement. You could start with the focus skill...put his meal in a training pouch, when he looks at your eyes, click, and treat! You can also teach "leave it" that way too..put a treat in your closed fist,,he will sniff your hand ,when he looks at your eyes, click and feed. I would not use a bowl for a long time, just something to guard.

Work with taking toys from him, give a click and treat, take away stuff all day, click and treat..give stuff and take away..click and treat. He has to think that is how life goes. HE does not decide what he can have, you do! Do this activity as much as you can all day long and make it fun, but if he gives you "that look" dont be afraid to say a quick "aught" and redirect to end postive.

Good luck,,I used this same technique with a rescue that would bite if you bumped him or stepped on his tail...guess what,,he got bumped and tail stepped on ALOT (not mean about it) until he decided it was his fate! He became totally trustworthy, but it took effort!!

Dont let the negative people get you down! You can do it..one last word of advice..dont be tentative in how you handle him. Be quick with a "yes and click" and fair if he needs an "aught!" Thats how he will learn.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

SARAHSMITH said:


> I do thank those who are not concentrating on the mistakes we've made being that I stated my husband knows it was wrong & we want to find the right way to handle things.
> I thought about being completely truthful before I posted because I have seen the wrath of responses to others who have posted some bad mistakes.
> I read advice that I think is similar to the advice in a book mentioned. So we are feeding one meal by hand as advised by many and the other meal we are entering the room with some really yummy food (mostly left over meat from dinner). We are not getting too close to him, but having him come to us and offering him the food. We do this several times while he is eating. Hoping to get closer and closer as time goes by.
> I think I will also not feed him that one meal in the mud room, as someone mentioned that he could associate eating in there with bad experiences.


Sarah,

Don't let the critics get to you! I doubt if anyone on here is really perfect with their dogs! (except me, of course!!!!! Heh! Heh!)

Sounds like you are VERY concerned about your pooch and that is the most critical thing. Hang in there and you will certainly see a great deal of improvment!!

AND make sure that you keep us updated with your progress and any questions going forward!


----------



## SARAHSMITH (Sep 19, 2010)

ponyfarm said:


> Forget about what your husband did..its over. I just had an idea...Have you tried clicker training him? Its so fun, it involves food and lots of positive reinforcement. You could start with the focus skill...put his meal in a training pouch, when he looks at your eyes, click, and treat! You can also teach "leave it" that way too..put a treat in your closed fist,,he will sniff your hand ,when he looks at your eyes, click and feed. I would not use a bowl for a long time, just something to guard.
> 
> Work with taking toys from him, give a click and treat, take away stuff all day, click and treat..give stuff and take away..click and treat. He has to think that is how life goes. HE does not decide what he can have, you do! Do this activity as much as you can all day long and make it fun, but if he gives you "that look" dont be afraid to say a quick "aught" and redirect to end postive.
> 
> ...


That sounds like great advise. I do have a clicker as I used it in puppy class. Zeppelin is fine when we take his bones away. He was growling at that too, but this quickly ended. Now he seems to want to share his bones and toys, often dropping them in our laps.  Still it sounds like a great idea to click and treat when we take them so he associates us taking things from him with good things.

He knows the "leave it" command but we could work at him "containing" himself in public or when company comes as he gets soooo excited.
I'll have to think more things I could teach him:halogsd:


----------

