# Crate training/House training A la Monks of New Skete questions



## CaspiAK

Hey there! We've just started our training routine with our 10 week old pup(we've had him for a week now). I'm basically following the schedule found in the book The Art of Raising a Puppy by the Monks of New Skete. He's in his crate about 5 times a day, 2 hours at a time. 

He spends about half the time in the crate crying and barking. My question is: Do we completely ignore him while he is in his crate, or do we periodically approach the crate(in a moment of his being quiet) to speak reassuringly to him, let him smell our fingers etc.?

A little background: He seems to really like his crate....he eats in there, put toys in it and takes them out, sits in it briefly, sleeps half in it and half outside of it at night. He does REALLY well in the crate in the car.

Thanks SO much for any help! This is like having a diaper-less newborn and toddler at the same time! With TEETH!!!!! Thank goodness they make these puppies as adorable as they are!


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## dogma13

Welcome to the forum!I don't see the need to have him crated that often or that long.Overnight,nap time,and when you are gone or can't supervise seems like a more normal routine.He needs to interact with you and excersice his mind and body.From the info you provided,IMO if he had more stimulation and went into the crate to rest,the whining would stop.Sounds like he's already ok with the crate,just needs more activity.Looking forward to pics when you have enough posts!


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## wolfy dog

CaspiAK said:


> Hey there! We've just started our training routine with our 10 week old pup(we've had him for a week now). I'm basically following the schedule found in the book The Art of Raising a Puppy by the Monks of New Skete. He's in his crate about 5 times a day, 2 hours at a time.
> 
> He spends about half the time in the crate crying and barking. My question is: Do we completely ignore him while he is in his crate, or do we periodically approach the crate(in a moment of his being quiet) to speak reassuringly to him, let him smell our fingers etc.?
> 
> A little background: He seems to really like his crate....he eats in there, put toys in it and takes them out, sits in it briefly, sleeps half in it and half outside of it at night. He does REALLY well in the crate in the car.
> 
> Thanks SO much for any help! This is like having a diaper-less newborn and toddler at the same time! With TEETH!!!!! Thank goodness they make these puppies as adorable as they are!


During the day he is in his crate for a total of 10 hours. I assume he is crated at night too? I would cry too if I were that puppy. He should not live like a caged bird but spend plenty of time getting to know the world, getting to know you, have fun, being trained etc. Limit his crate time to times when he is really tired and for the night (next to your bed at least for the first several weeks) and supervise him by keeping a close eye on him. Take him out every hour on leash to a designated spot. Give him a few minutes and then go back inside or whatever your plans are.
I don't understand why these monks are so popular. They are old school.


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## CaspiAK

Yeah, we've personally averaged 3-4 "cratings" during the day these last 2 days with the way our personal schedules have worked....and the 5 or 6 they recommend DO seem A LOT. My take was that this was a temporary thing to help get them on a schedule for HOUSETRAINING and to limit accidents in the house.

To clarify, we have been doing lots of walks, playtime, cuddle time, and the occasional visit with the neighbor's dog for exercise and socialization.

Intuitively I feel like crating him during nap times seems more natural.....Any ideas on how to potty train that DOESN'T include so much crating? He has peed a LOT in the house....it seems like we only have a window of 10 minutes where we don't have to be on point tailing him to watch for the signs. Sniffing in circles, suddenly stopping his play to walk off, or just standing there looking at us seem to be the tell-tail signs of immanent evacuation!!!! He has a potty spot outside where he goes and we give him praise and a tiny treat right after he finishes.


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## Castlemaid

That seems like a lot of crating just because. 

Best way to potty train and prevent accidents is constant supervision. (YES! raising a pup is work!). Take him out every 15 to 30 minutes. At this early stage, your job is to make sure that when he needs to go coincides with him being outside so he can't make a mistake and have a potty in the house. 

If you can't supervise him - like having to make a phone call, taking a shower, etc - put him in his crate.


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## Sabis mom

I wouldn't crate a pup that much. 
I don't house train, I house condition
Basically what Lucia said. I keep pups in sight at all times, spend as much time as humanly possible outside with them, crate if I need to shower or sleep, ignore accidents and make a huge fuss and party when they relieve themselves outside. 
Shadow is 5 and still gets deliriously happy when she pees in her spot, and I still reward even if it's just a 'good girl' and a scratch, and she was house trained by 6 weeks, had her last accident at about 10 weeks. I have never had issues with house training, never had it take longer then a couple weeks at worst.
Crates are a place to secure dogs when necessary, not a cop out. I think some methods promote owners over using crates.


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## Cassidy's Mom

CaspiAK said:


> Intuitively I feel like crating him during nap times seems more natural.....Any ideas on how to potty train that DOESN'T include so much crating? He has peed a LOT in the house....it seems like we only have a window of 10 minutes where we don't have to be on point tailing him to watch for the signs.


I would follow your instincts. When our dogs were young I crated at night, at nap times, and any time I couldn't directly supervise - taking a shower, cleaning house, cooking dinner, eating meals, etc. I don't think you need such a rigid schedule, and if you're crating him when he doesn't really need to be crated and add that time to when he really DOES need to be crated, it can add up to more crate time than is really necessary or advisable. 



Castlemaid said:


> *That seems like a lot of crating just because. *
> 
> Best way to potty train and prevent accidents is constant supervision. (YES! raising a pup is work!). Take him out every 15 to 30 minutes. At this early stage, your job is to make sure that when he needs to go coincides with him being outside so he can't make a mistake and have a potty in the house.
> 
> If you can't supervise him - like having to make a phone call, taking a shower, etc - put him in his crate.


^ :thumbup: When I talk about direct supervision I mean "eyes on". Puppy is not just in the same room with me, s/he's in my line of sight, and preferably within reach. I spend a lot of time hanging out on the floor with a young puppy, and the puppy will usually wear a lightweight leash as a drag line, that I can quickly grab to prevent him/her from dashing off, and to run outside for potties as necessary. Mostly it just takes some time, diligence, and endless patience, and it will eventually sink in. Oh, and gallons of enzyme cleaner.


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## CaspiAK

OK, so the Monk's version of crate training is OUT....I will need to revamp our philosophy and try to get more insight and ideas as we are also implementing the other ideas folks have stated above...but still having lots of accidents. 

Crating aside, I'll lay out what we've been doing for house training:

We bring him outside to pee when he wakes up in the morning and from naps, after he eats and drinks, and at 30 minute intervals in general. We also spend time outside just playing, exploring, chasing ice on the deck, etc.I've read everything from take him out every 15 minutes to take him out every 1.5 hours. Should we just plan on taking him out every 15 minutes....set a timer on my iPhone, maybe?
We definitely know the signs he shows for wanting to go potty.
I feel like between me, my husband and daughter, we are keeping a diligent eye on him..... but sometimes the puppy literally stops what he's doing and just drops into a squat!
We "interrupt" the squat by picking him up and saying "outside!" and then bring him out to finish.
We put a bell by the back door that he will occasionally ring and then we bring him right outside. 
When he is outside to potty we encourage him by saying,"Go potty!", quietly praising him while he is going, and then super excitedly praising him when he finishes and he also gets a treat.
What else should we be doing/not doing? Thanks again!


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## wolfy dog

If you praise him during his business, he will learn to pair that sound with his business. if you praise him inside for something else he will get confused. I just say, "Go Potty" in a normal voice for pee or poop as he does it about three times and quit saying it before he stops. No treats, no praise and mine were trained in a couple of weeks but of course you need to remain vigilant. One pup never had an accident using this technique and others never more than two, honestly. Besides crating, you can also use tethering to you or any object close by you. It is a ton of work but that comes along with a pup.


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## Cassidy's Mom

I think you're doing everything right, it's just going to take some time. If you take him out and he doesn't do his business, I'd take him out at shorter intervals until he does, such as 15 minutes. Once he's peed and pooped, you can stretch it out a bit, but I still would take him out fairly frequently at this age. He hasn't yet learned that the only place he should be eliminating is outdoors, he has very little bowel and bladder control, and probably doesn't recognize the signs that he needs to "go" until right before he does. 

Considering all those factors - that he need to know he has to go, he needs to know he's only supposed to do that outside, he needs to know how to alert you to let him out to do his business, and he needs to be able to hold it long enough for you to do so.....you can see why it's not an overnight process. It can takes weeks or more likely months, and in the meantime you just need to keep minimizing his opportunities to go indoors and to reinforce him being successful at pottying outdoors, while thoroughly cleaning his accidents so he can't smell them and be attracted back to the same spots. 

Learning the signs is a good first step. Some pups have more obvious signs than others, which can make it difficult to figure out. When in doubt, take puppy out.  I do use praise and a treat to reinforce pottying outside, and also name the behavior, like you're doing. Now my dogs will pretty much go on cue. At flyball tournaments I need to potty Halo before she goes in the ring, and she's become accustomed to dropping into a squat every time I take her out of her crate before a race. Even if she doesn't really NEED to, she'll squeeze out a few drops for me, lol.


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## m14msgt

well...our pup is about 7 weeks now. have been crate training since we got her last Saturday. She does fairly well, but we have noticed she will urinate in her crate during the night or if we are gone for more than about 4 hours. We placed another of our dogs (miniature dachshund) in the crate at night with her, and she now sleeps through the night. My wife and my work schedules do not allow us the freedom to stay at home all day to take her out of the crate frequently. My worry is whether she is regressing. Because she pees in the crate at night, will she think its okay to do this in the house once we start letting her roam the house. The breeder said to keep her crated for a month, and only let her out to play with her or take her outside. HELP!


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## Stonevintage

m14msgt said:


> well...our pup is about 7 weeks now. have been crate training since we got her last Saturday. She does fairly well, but we have noticed she will urinate in her crate during the night or if we are gone for more than about 4 hours. We placed another of our dogs (miniature dachshund) in the crate at night with her, and she now sleeps through the night. My wife and my work schedules do not allow us the freedom to stay at home all day to take her out of the crate frequently. My worry is whether she is regressing. Because she pees in the crate at night, will she think its okay to do this in the house once we start letting her roam the house. The breeder said to keep her crated for a month, and only let her out to play with her or take her outside. HELP!


At that age, about every 4 hours is how often they need to go out to go potty. Even in the middle of the night. I became quite the star gazer for a few months, but I knew it was necessary training. It wasn't until about 14 weeks that I was able to sleep 6 hours straight without her having an accident. The 6 hours stretched to 8 hours at about 16 weeks


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## Rosy831

At 7 weeks old they need to go potty more often than that. I took my pups out every thirty minutes, after feeding, after play, after naps.


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## maxtmill

I always took two weeks off work whenever we got a new pup. I like to tether them to me, to keep an eye on them. Trips outside frequently, with me ringing a bell at the door. Praise like crazy when they pee/poop - I have always used "hurry up". I crate after they eat and have gone outside to do their business, after a play session for a nap after they have gone outside to do their business, upon wakening from a nap, etc. The crate is kept in my living room during the day so the pup is not shut away isolated. I pick up the water at 6PM after the last feeding. A trip outside just before bed about 11 PM. The crate is moved to beside my bed where the nightstand would be, where I can put my hand in to let the pup know I am right there. I am new to the "sit on the dog" technique, but it sounds great, and I will definitely do that with my next shepherd.


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## rxkeith

we got our dog at 10 weeks of age.

she took about a month to house break, and i thought shepherds were smart.

we had potty outside after eating, and sleeping timed pretty good. it was the play part where the timing suffered. she would just suddenly stop, and squat where ever she was before we could grab her and take her outside. she would also have this crazy hour after she ate later in the day. we would take her outside, she would do her business, and then she would have three pee episodes within a 15 minute period, about 5 minutes apart. she got better as she got older, and learned the routine. also, the first month we had her, i was usually up at 4 or 5am to let her out. something you just have to do. usually, i would be able to get another hour or two of sleep afterwards.
general rule of thumb is a puppy can hold their urine for an hour for each month of age if you have to leave them alone.

have a spray bottle with vinegar in it to clean up the accidents.
be hyper vigilant early on, go potty outside in the same spot and lots of praise
after going potty outside. repeat often.


keith


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## lrodptl

My last 3 GSDs,I took them out very frequently and woke them up every 2 hours during the night for 2-3 weeks. I would say each dog had had as little as 2 accidents. 75 repetitions is a general rule to ingrain a behavior. I would say for housetraining maybe 150 repetitions for an 8-10 week old. It's exhausting to be successful in 10-14 days but we've done it. Whatever trigger command you use for pooping and peeing should be repeated during the entire elimination. At night.replace water with ice cubes,his activity is down so his water intake can be reduced for your and his comfort.


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