# How many months between litters?



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm curious.

A friend of mine has a 7 month GSD. The mother had another litter 18 months ago. That would put 11 months between litters.
Is this normal? Is it healthy?

Thanks


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I believe the consensus is to allow the bitch to have at least one heat without being bred between litters.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

This is often discussed on the forum, and I love hearing the breeder's side of the question, as always there are a lot of things to consider, answers are not black and white. From what I have gathered from the various past discussions, the short answer is: yes: this would be a back-to-back breeding of two consecutive heats, and that in and of itself that is fine. 

The long answer:

There is a recognized study done on the reproductive health of bitches, and what it comes down to, is that regular breeding during the peak years of the bitch is healthier for reproductive health than sporadic breedings. However, owners of breeding dogs do concern themselves with the overall mental, psychological, physical health of their dogs, and thus prefer to skip a heat to give a breeding bitch a break from mothering duties (and maybe a break for the humans from puppy-raising duties). But the occassional back-to-back breeding is not harmful in and of itself.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> This is often discussed on the forum, and I love hearing the breeder's side of the question, as always there are a lot of things to consider, answers are not black and white. From what I have gathered from the various past discussions, the short answer is: yes: this would be a back-to-back breeding of two consecutive heats, and that in and of itself that is fine.
> 
> The long answer:
> 
> There is a recognized study done on the reproductive health of bitches, and what it comes down to, is that regular breeding during the peak years of the bitch is healthier for reproductive health than sporadic breedings. However, owners of breeding dogs do concern themselves with the overall mental, psychological, physical health of their dogs, and thus prefer to skip a heat to give a breeding bitch a break from mothering duties (and maybe a break for the humans from puppy-raising duties). But the occassional back-to-back breeding is not harmful in and of itself.


This is why I love this forum.  Learn something every day.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

This is one of those things that everybody on the internet has an opinion about. People expect a lot from breeders. Don't breed a bitch before two years old. Don't breed a bitch without hip/elbow/DM certifications. Don't breed a bitch without titles. Don't breed a bitch on back-to-back heats. Don't breed a bitch that's past her prime. Take time out from breeding to train and compete. If you add all that up, there's precious little time for actually having litters.

Some say you shouldn't breed on back-to-back heats. (Back-to-back would be six months apart if she's regular, by the way.) Some say you can breed back-to-back, but then take a year off. Some say you should take a little longer developing the bitch, breed later, breed her several times when she's young and healthy and in her prime, and then let her enjoy an early retirement.

My thought is this: If a breeder is a person of moral character who cares about the welfare of their animals, they probably know what's best for their dog better than I do. So long as the bitch is happy and healthy and in good condition, and it's not a puppy mill situation where she's breeding back to back to back from the cradle to the grave, I say leave it up to the people who know their dogs and understand canine reproduction to decide these things.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Unless I'm doing my math wrong here, and I very well may be, 11 months apart isn't back to back heats. Most females go into heat every 5 - 6 months, some as soon as 4 months and some longer than 6. But 11 months, I would consider there was an extra unbred heat in there. Which IMHO is fine.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> This is often discussed on the forum, and I love hearing the breeder's side of the question, as always there are a lot of things to consider, answers are not black and white. From what I have gathered from the various past discussions, the short answer is: yes: this would be a back-to-back breeding of two consecutive heats, and that in and of itself that is fine.


I like your long answer, but thought I'd correct something here. 

A litter of puppies born 10 months apart is not necessarily a back-to-back breeding--in fact, it likely was *not*. 

If the bitch was on a 4-month cycle between heats, the breeder would have skipped a heat--so it wouldn't have been back-to-back. If the bitch was on a 6 month cycle, the puppies would have been born 8 months apart, so, either the female has very long cycles (of 9 months) or very short ones and the breeder skipped a heat.

At any rate, 11months is a more than adequate interval between litters.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Correct away - I'm here to learn too.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Good reading.

Thanks.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I hope Carolina weighs in on this. I asked a very similar question to her when I met her and their (her and Dennis) answer made perfect sense regarding how often and when to breed a female.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Here is my opinion on this: 

Animals in the wild all across the world are being bred at every heat season. Why? Because it is what nature intended. An Alpha female within a wolf pack is bred every season from the moment she claims the position to the day she can no longer produce. It is not UNHEALTHY for animals to produce offspring every time their body prepares for it - if it was unhealthy, they simply wouldn't come into season that often.

HOWEVER, my personal beliefs for dogs are that you shouldn't breed a bitch every season. I like to see a bitch bred every few years, not every cycle. That's why breeders keep more than one female, right?

On that same note, I like to see the Alpha female of Haliburton's wolf pack bred every season... which happens without human intervention anyway. That is the natural cycle for wolves, and they thrive on pack life and the dire need to produce offspring to survive. That is where the difference lies for me, I suppose.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Angel - Animals in the wild do not come into season as often as domesticated animals. How is comparing a domesticated animal that comes into heat every 4-6 months regardless of weather relevant to a wild animal that typically will only have a season timed to give birth in the spring? Not being snide! Seriously asking!


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> Angel - Animals in the wild do not come into season as often as domesticated animals. How is comparing a domesticated animal that comes into heat every 4-6 months regardless of weather relevant to a wild animal that typically will only have a season timed to give birth in the spring? Not being snide! Seriously asking!


You're absolutely right, wild animals typically have ONE season a year. I was just sharing my thoughts on the subject in regards to breeding every season. I understand the difference, wasn't attempting to draw similarities in that regard. I was just sharing my thoughts on the subject of animal reproduction.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Animals in the wild, for example, feral dogs, also live short and dangerous lives with only a few of their offspring surviving to adulthood. So, yeah, a feral dog is going to "get bred" every season--whether or not it's good for her. And not really a good analogy for the domestic dog.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

another thought is number of pups/litter, I have seen several litters born back to back where first liter is quite small, 1-3 pups, and waiting longer for those large litters9-12+, also I am sure there are other reasons that breeders and vets know that make sense, a friend had their female have an infection and were told after clearing it up to breed the next heat if they wanted another litter from her, then spay her to prevent more issues, just another thought


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have never done a back to back breeding, but it would depend a lot on my female. Nike tended to go almost 7 months after having a litter before coming back into heat. She also came back into condition very quickly even with a big litter. She I could have done a back to back breeding. Vala, on the other hand, took longer to get back into condition after her litters so I would not have bred her back to back. 

From the research I have read by reproductive specialists, back to back breeding is healthier overall for the bitch's uterus. Have a few litters young and then spay. I, personally, want to see what my female can produce, get at least prelims done, and have an idea of the puppies/young dogs before I breed again. Then, for me, there is also titling, competitions, timing and when I might want another puppy.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

trudy said:


> another thought is number of pups/litter, I have seen several litters born back to back where first liter is quite small, 1-3 pups, and waiting longer for those large litters9-12+, also I am sure there are other reasons that breeders and vets know that make sense, a friend had their female have an infection and were told after clearing it up to breed the next heat if they wanted another litter from her, then spay her to prevent more issues, just another thought


The mom had 11 pups in her first litter, and 10 in her second.

Lucky breeder had 21 WGSL pups


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It depends on a number of things. I think moreso than how many pups in the previous litter, how the bitch bounced back after the litter. Because the health of the bitch is the first consideration.

I bred a bitch on the next cycle after having a litter of 10. She then had a litter of seven, and I then waited a cycle. After the litter of ten, she gained weight throughout the weaning process and looked in excellent condition by the time the pups were 8 weeks old. That is the only reason, I went ahead.

I skipped a cycle and then bred to a dog who has not yet produced puppies, so we missed another cycle. If all goes well there will be two years between her last litter and this one.

I think that you need to decide first by her health and condition, then the timing -- is it a good time for her to have a litter, will you have another litter on the ground, will it be the dead of winter, etc. 

Eleven months between litters means they either intentionally or unintentionally skipped a heat cycle. By itself, it does not raise any color of flag.


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## Alphak9 (Mar 9, 2011)

Breed a female once a year is recommended meaning you should skip one heat before another litter. You will have healthier pups this way.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Alphak9 said:


> Breed a female once a year is recommended meaning you should skip one heat before another litter. You will have healthier pups this way.


This might be true--and I am not a proponent of regularly doing back-to-back breedings. But there is so much myth and superstition around this issue--it's hard to find what is based on hard facts and what is based on the same sort of "mythology" that says puppies should be speutered before they're 6 months old and any _"responsible" _breeder has all puppies sold before they're born.

So, do you have any support for your statement? 

_Who _recommends breeding only once a year and what is their recommendation based on?

What if your female is having 7 month heat cycles? That is only one litter a year but it's back-to-back breeding. 

Is there any research that says the puppies will be healthier?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

do the math from date of breeding not date of birth and you will see that this is not back to back - but most likely with a season between.

It is the nutrititonal plane , the emotional care , the nutrition during pregnancy, nursing and after weaning , plus the care of the pups taking away some of the pressures on the dams system that matter.

Any repro specialist , even human, will tell you that pregnancy at a younger age is easier and more likely . That is why we have so many people who delayed families going for repro help.

It is not how many pups (units) a female produces but why she is bred , what she contributes, and to which sire . 

Carmen


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## Alphak9 (Mar 9, 2011)

Hi christine, 
My calculation is that a female dog comes into heat roughly about twice a year and if it's not back to back breeding, then once a year is about right. I know it's not specific but a general statement. 

Alpha



BlackthornGSD said:


> This might be true--and I am not a proponent of regularly doing back-to-back breedings. But there is so much myth and superstition around this issue--it's hard to find what is based on hard facts and what is based on the same sort of "mythology" that says puppies should be speutered before they're 6 months old and any _"responsible" _breeder has all puppies sold before they're born.
> 
> So, do you have any support for your statement?
> 
> ...


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

If I had a female whose contribution I was highly interested in, I would not let back to back breeding be a deciding factor if all else was in order.There are not an unlimited number of heat cycles. Breeding should not begin before 2 years old and after 5 reproduction may diminish. I remember a lecture from a reproductive vet where he noted the uterus was meant to be pregnant.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

carmspack said:


> do the math from date of breeding not date of birth and you will see that this is not back to back - but most likely with a season between.
> 
> It is the nutrititonal plane , the emotional care , the nutrition during pregnancy, nursing and after weaning , plus the care of the pups taking away some of the pressures on the dams system that matter.
> 
> ...


This ^^^ is the answer.
I am just curious as to how soon after having pups does a bitch go back into heat? Does she stay on her 6 month schedule? ... which would put her in heat approximately 4 months after whelping.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

I agree with the fact that one thing it depends on is the female. Her recovery is paramount. I base this agreement on the three dog breeding books I am reading and thoughts from other experienced breeders.

Let me throw something into the argument, someone said NEVER breed before 2 years, right? What about if the female is having abnormal heats and usually breeding around 1 and half corrects it?


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Some females come back into heat after a litter at exactly 6 months from the previous date, some come back in 6 months after weaning, etc. It is not really a certain thing.
I had a girl come into heat every four months, I did a prelim on her hips and bred her at her 4th heat, which was at 18 months. She did have a litter and then settled down to a regular 6 month heat after that.
Some of the leading reproduction specialists says breeding them back to back is healthier for them, keeps the organs in good shape. I think alot as said above, the care of her, the delivery, the weaning all take into account how good of shape she is in. If bred back to back numerous times, I think the female needs to be retired from breeding at a fairly young age, around 4/5 and then spayed. She could have had 4 litters by then.
Heck, thoroughbred horses, and alot of horses for that matter are bred back on their foal heat, which is usually 9-12 days after foaling. They will breed them every year until they can no longer foal or no longer come up pregnant.


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