# Almost got in a fight because of Jupiter



## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

I go to our nearby elementary school early on the weekends to throw the ball for Jupiter, his favorite activity and a nice way to wear him out. Last Sunday, I was the only one there, and someone I didn't know arrived soon after me. He wanted his dog--some kind of standard poodle or Wheaten terrier, I think--to meet Jupiter, and feeling sort of pressured, I allowed it.

The dogs sniffed each other for a few seconds, and then Jupiter started chasing and biting at the dog! He ignored me and I had to tackle him to let the other dog get away!

Once it was over, the guy was so angry that I at first thought he was mentally disabled (not making a joke, he was just really out of control). He told me he wanted to fight and asked me if I wanted to fight him. I told him no, I don't want to fight you. He then berated me for bringing a "fighting dog" to the school. He had been told to come at 7:30 to meet other dogs, and then this happened.

He did calm down enough to have somewhat of a conversation. It turned out that his dog was a puppy--and for some reason, Jupiter has always disliked puppies and been inappropriately harsh on them. The guy yelled at me and asked me why I would bring my dog there if I knew that. 

For which I really didn't have a good answer!

He probably wouldn't be interested that I'd been going there 2 years and hadn't had any problems, that Jupiter got along fine with the labs and the regular dogs there. 

But the truth is, it looked really bad and the poor guy and his poor dog shouldn't have had that happen to them. It is really unfortunate, because even though Jupiter gets along with 95% of dogs (for example, just a few days before, he met another intact male GS and a chihuahua and acted completely normal with them), he has now accumulated a handful of incidents--two were he chased and aggressively went after a dog for no reason--and I think I just need to keep him on his leash at all times.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

First, that guy doesn't sound very stable. I would avoid him not because of the incident but because that is a way over the top reaction. Hey I'm going to pressure you to make your dog meet mine and then demand we go toe to toe, man to man, no guns when it goes south without any responsibility for his part? I would feel bad too in this situation but that reaction is not stable. 

Second, let him play with the dogs in his "pack" and leash him when strange dogs are around. 

Third, it's ok to say no to people and be rude back when they won't accept that answer. You are your dog's advocate.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

A good rule: No meeting strange dogs.
That being said, that man was nuts.


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## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

Yes, that sucks! My last Black Lab was the most social dog in the world. Walking around with him was like walking with someone campaigning for mayor. He loved saying hello to everyone. Luckily, he was big, smart, and confident. He knew which dogs were playful and which ones to stay away from. I think a trainer would call him a 'teacher dog' because he kept peace at the local dog park. If a big dog got too aggressive with a small dog he would charge into the big dog with his chest and knock the big dog over so the little dog could get away.

Ole is the exact opposite. Absolutely no meeting strange dog while either of them is unleashed. Luckily, I learned this when he was pretty young. We were walking along a creek when Ole darted into a storm drain, a second later he came back out with a raccoon he had just killed. I had no time to react, I didn't even realize the raccoon was there until Ole returned with his face covered in its blood.

Ole is not aggressive, he is just very, very prey driven. If something triggers that drive, he reacts long before I have time to react. Until I am confident the other dog is 100% stable around Ole, neither dog goes off-leash.

If people start to whine about how everyone loves their dog so it will be alright, I tell them the raccoon story and see if they still want to risk it. No one has. To be fair, my 'Black Lab owner self' would have never understood the perspective of my 'GSD owner self.' If anyone gets pushy, I just excuse myself and take Ole somewhere else.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

If someone asks me I just tell them they are watch dogs and I do not want them to be friendly with strangers, human or animal. Most people are smart enough to put 2 and 2 together and realize the dog is not social and not friendly and leave us alone. Actually they are big quishy dogs but I don't want strangers to know that. Their purpose is to discourage people. I'm not interested in providing anyone's entertainment. I get it that nobody wants to be rude, but some folks just require a firm, 'no'. Hate to say it but I think we all need to be a little suspicious when strangers suddenly want to interact with our dogs.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Just tell them your dog is not friendly or sometimes not friendly out of the blue and you'd prefer not to take any chances. I tell people that with COVID, Rogan hasn't met many dogs (true) and I don't want to take any chances.

I let the let the dogs out the front door today not knowing the water meter guy was in the driveway. Rogan went right after him and stopped 5 feet short and lit him up. Harley tends to circle like a shark. They're not aggressive at all but you never know and that guy has some shorts to clean up....


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## AKD (Jul 18, 2020)

Its very stressful, specially when people start advising you on various things to do with your dog without knowing anything about the dog or you. I have come up with a creative way to avoid social awkwardness when outside, I just say "Its not my dog, I am just walking her and the owner said no to XYZ - (whatever you don't want happening)". Makes it very easy.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

"no" and no further explanation needed. no justification needed. "no" But while I was living in town I did use the school yard many days I never used it with other dogs there. So "no."


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

CactusWren said:


> I go to our nearby elementary school early on the weekends to throw the ball for Jupiter, his favorite activity and a nice way to wear him out. Last Sunday, I was the only one there, and someone I didn't know arrived soon after me. He wanted his dog--some kind of standard poodle or Wheaten terrier, I think--to meet Jupiter, and feeling sort of pressured, I allowed it.
> 
> The dogs sniffed each other for a few seconds, and then Jupiter started chasing and biting at the dog! He ignored me and I had to tackle him to let the other dog get away!
> 
> ...


The guy was out of line. He is the one who insisted that Jupiter meet his dog! And as soon as there was an issue, you got on top of it.

My opinion, for what it's worth - only let Jupiter off leash around dogs you know he's cool with. Don't force him to meet new dogs. And work on perfecting his recall.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I'd be paying you lip service if I didn't say you were wrong here. You had a good idea of how your dog would react and you let them meet anyway. That being said, it sounds like you did your best to intervene when things went south. His reaction was over the top. These things can happen, and it doesn't need to turn into a human fight. I don't think you were wrong for being there, just for not saying no. Jupiter's personality doesn't sound all that different from Bear so I understand some of the things you're dealing with.


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

People really are pushy though. I encountered that the other night with Jamie. Some guy with no dog who seemed a little odd wanted to meet her . I told him "no, I don't let her meet strangers". He kept pushing with "but, dogs love me...I'm good with them " etc. I just said have a nice evening and kept walking. It's hard but I'm learning how to be a rude B. 
Think I'll try the NO...just NO. lol
I wonder if Jupiter was set off by the guys weird energy. 
I do the same as others. I leash Jamie if people/dogs are too close.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I think often people intervene when dogs are just being dogs! Jupiter, not unlike many if not most dogs, take a bit of an aggressive or forceful demeanor when dealing with large puppies. For them it's a normal part of growing up. They aren't hurting the puppy, but it is common for an older dog to force older puppies into submission. 

Enter people. It's unacceptable for your dog to act like a dog, they say! Force them to do otherwise!!!

At any rate the guy's response was pretty crazy. I'm not saying weird stuff and/or people don't happen. But it does sound like you deescalated the problem and worked it out. So goon on ya mate!

It's funny to me that so many folks talk down about dog parks just for that reason. What better training ground can you imagine for having a dog that can maintain control under severe distraction, or even distress!

And that's a venue that's available for most folks at no charge!!!

Utilize it as a training and exercise experience. Be aware of the challenges and work on those at home.

I guarentee you end up with a pretty much, bulletproof dog! Which at 4 yrs, is what I have...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It was ok to let see if your dog would be ok with the guy's dog, since he seems ok with most dogs. But somehow you have to get him under control quicker if there is a problem. Some dogs are not going to be dog-park kind of dogs. It doesn't sound like this was any form of dog park though, and if there are no dogs present, then you should feel perfectly fine letting your dog run a bit in a safe area. The moment any one comes, the dog goes on leash, and if you don't want to do the canine meet and greet, just say "no." or "No, we are in training." 

That being said, folks who do not have working/herding breeds, often do not get that these dogs need to be out and about too. They thing all dogs are just happy-go-lucky and if you have a dog with a problem (this may not be a problem at all), then your dog should never be in public. I don't know how people got this way. I think you have a seriously dog aggressive dog, than you walk them on lead, keep them away from any dog they might hurt, and possibly use a muzzle. But the dog still needs to get out and do things.


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

selzer said:


> The moment any one comes, the dog goes on leash, and if you don't want to do the canine meet and greet, just say "no." or "No, we are in training."


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Here's the thing, no dog is a dog park kind of dog unless you teach them to be! My dog went through so many phases growing up that many people would label an anti dog park candidate. 

But with consistent leadership and guidance she's cool...and THAT was the end goal! There were spats, and scuffles along the way, but she's now able to accompany me anywhere I choose to go, and she ignores any dogs that happen to be present.

Like any other training, it takes some work, and a variety of situations to proof the training, but it's absolutely doable!

I just took my dog to a friend's house that has 5 dogs. She never even looked at them. 

This comes from practice INSIDE dog parks. Yep, they're volatile and unpredictable, but isn't life? Isn't that exactly what you're trying to train for?

Anyway, it's all good. You do you, and I'll continue to do me...


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

middleofnowhere said:


> "no" and no further explanation needed. no justification needed. "no" But while I was living in town I did use the school yard many days I never used it with other dogs there. So "no."


Yep. I was taught “no” is a complete sentence. Of course, some people are easier to say no to than others. 😂


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Thanks all for the responses, support, and advice! I hope I have learned my lesson and won't be allowing any off-leash interactions with unknown dogs. I definitely am going to have to make this work, because I live in a fairly urbanized suburb and there aren't that many places to exercise Jupiter. 

His thing with puppies is so strange. I don't think he was trying to hurt it, but he does really seem overly harsh with them. To my eye, they look like corrections, but far harsher and more violent than I've seen before. It's the opposite of this "puppy license" I have heard about. The sad thing is, I started socializing him in public at 11 weeks, he started puppy training classes at 12, and was in training solid for the first six months. Then we used to go to dog parks, which he loved and never had problems at...until he had a couple of incidents with puppies/juveniles. That was 9 months. It would be nice if I could figure this one out.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

What kind of guy wants to fight with a person who just proved to have an "aggressive" German Shepherd with them?


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Some people tend to get over the top about one or more of three things-- (1) their automobile, or maybe more precisely, their driving (hence, "road rage;" you cut me off! I must return the favor! With honking and hand signals, etc. etc.); (2) their kids, often their kids playing what ought to be recreational children's sports (hey ref! Are you freakin' blind? He's traveling! That's a foul on her! etc.), AND their pets. Don't criticize my pet; my pet gets along with all others, you and your pet are the problem, etc. 

This guy the O.P. encountered sounds like he was a little off his meds to begin with, but those three things I list, among some others, are frequent flashpoints in current U.S. society. 

Dog parks do offer some good opportunities, and in my limited experience, dogs gravitate to them like kids to a candy store. Or a video game store.

BUT-- they also offer opportunities for conflict to erupt out of nowhere, because ultimately, dogs are a little unpredictable. If not one's own dog (and trust me, I'll bet if folks are honest even some of the most seasoned GSD owners on here can say there have been times at least one of their dogs bolted, or reacted sharply and unexpectedly to another dog, or did something that came out of the blue), but, if not one's own dog, then the others they will encounter will surely do some unpredictable thing that can escalate into a minor but bad-sounding dustup, or a full blown dog melee. 

So I try to avoid dog park encounters, although it makes my profile pic girl a little sad to walk past it at the park. 
I would say 95% of the regulars at our Schutzhund club feel the same way. 

As an aside, I might agree dog park dogs can be "made" by training. But I do think some breeds are probably more natural fits. If you had 10 Goldens, a couple of Newfoundlands, some **** hounds and a small herd of Beagles meet randomly, I doubt the chances for a fight would be quite as good as say, a few Shepherds, a Mal or two, an American Staffordshire or three, with a few terriers, a Min Pin and some sled dog types mixed in. Assume for the hypothetical all these dogs are fairly well bred and representative of the AKC's idea of their ideal temperament. With mixed breeds, kinda depends on what comes to the fore in their genetics. We've all seen mellow mutts. We've all (at least I expect) encountered some chippy mutts of indeterminate lineage.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

The other thing with dog parks is, while I am not paranoid about COVID and I am going to work every day, by their nature dog parks allow for a concentration of people that is probably not wise to encourage until vaccines and better still, herd immunity, get widely distributed. 

At least the ones I've seen seem like they are kind of a meet and greet for people with dogs in the mix.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

WNGD said:


> What kind of guy wants to fight with a person who just proved to have an "aggressive" German Shepherd with them?


It's funny you say that. I think one reason I wasn't that concerned was that I had this irrational feeling that Jupiter would have my back if the guy actually attacked me!


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Squidwardp said:


> Some people tend to get over the top about one or more of three things-- (1) their automobile, or maybe more precisely, their driving (hence, "road rage;" you cut me off! I must return the favor! With honking and hand signals, etc. etc.); (2) their kids, often their kids playing what ought to be recreational children's sports (hey ref! Are you freakin' blind? He's traveling! That's a foul on her! etc.), AND their pets. Don't criticize my pet; my pet gets along with all others, you and your pet are the problem, etc.
> 
> This guy the O.P. encountered sounds like he was a little off his meds to begin with, but those three things I list, among some others, are frequent flashpoints in current U.S. society.
> 
> ...


Well said. 

I have heard about (human) fights at the dog park, when I used to go. I also saw one dog injured and bleeding, and another owner injured and bleeding. Pretty crazy that I used to go every day for about 6 months. ****, though, Jupiter and I sure had a blast at the dog park. He loved it and I really enjoyed meeting the dogs and letting Jupiter run.

One thing is that I was previously a Golden guy. So in some sense, I think my normal comfort level is more like, you know, Golden retriever. It didn't occur to me that my first Golden, Daisy, would bite or fight another dog, let alone a person. She was mild and friendly and had excellent social skills. Whereas with Jupiter, I have worked so hard to socialize him and make him safe around people and dogs, but with only limited success.

At the German shepherd club, I've always noticed a sense of tension with the other owners. Everyone is very careful to keep their dogs 6 feet away. Everyone's on edge and it kind of struck me as silly how strict they were about limiting interaction between the dogs. But I guess the fact is, they knew the breed better than me.

On the other hand, there is a "pool day" for Goldens around here, where up to 30 Goldens go to someone's house and they all swim and play together. Imagine that, but with strange German shepherds!


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

CactusWren said:


> It's funny you say that. I think one reason I wasn't that concerned was that I had this irrational feeling that Jupiter would have my back if the guy actually attacked me!


i think you would be shocked at what Jupiter would do. Karma is pretty laid back, but the other day my wife and i were play fighting to see what Karma would do. My wife was play punching me in the shoulder with Karma laying down next to me. She instantly got on my lap between my wife and I to protect me.

she has had ZERO formal training do such a thing. I've only trained her the basics, and mouthing with no pressure so her and i could wrestle, and so i could get items from her mouth. Heck she will be 2 in May and she JUST started playing tug with us!


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

_I let the let the dogs out the front door today not knowing the water meter guy was in the driveway. Rogan went right after him and stopped 5 feet short and lit him up. Harley tends to circle like a shark. They're not aggressive at all but you never know and that guy has some shorts to clean up...._

Buck put Fedex guy together with Chewy boxes and treats and absolutely fell in love with the Fedex guy. He jumped in the truck and would NOT get out. Wanted to go with his new best friend. Some watch dog...


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Courier guys just drop and run at our place. Our dining room window is at eye level when they approach


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

CactusWren said:


> Well said.
> 
> I have heard about (human) fights at the dog park, when I used to go. I also saw one dog injured and bleeding, and another owner injured and bleeding. Pretty crazy that I used to go every day for about 6 months. ****, though, Jupiter and I sure had a blast at the dog park. He loved it and I really enjoyed meeting the dogs and letting Jupiter run.
> 
> ...


My boy, Snowy, is super friendly for a GSD. He is a white GSD and I take him to the dog park about once a week. He also gets a play date with a doggy friend once a week. I've also met other GSDs who enjoy playing with dogs. HOWEVER, not all GSDs are like this, obviously. As owners, we need to know our dogs. 

I love taking my dog to the dog park and watching him run and play with other dogs but if he didn't enjoy it - I wouldn't do it. We'd just go on another hike, which is what we do most days anyway. The only imperative is that he gets a chance to run off some energy. Whether he does it by hiking, playing fetch or playing with other dogs... it's all good.

The one good thing about taking him to the dog park - he's picked up on doggy body language. He knows to leave certain dogs alone, to interact with others, etc.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

Shefali said:


> My boy, Snowy, is super friendly for a GSD. He is a white GSD and I take him to the dog park about once a week. He also gets a play date with a doggy friend once a week. I've also met other GSDs who enjoy playing with dogs. HOWEVER, not all GSDs are like this, obviously. As owners, we need to know our dogs.
> 
> I love taking my dog to the dog park and watching him run and play with other dogs but if he didn't enjoy it - I wouldn't do it. We'd just go on another hike, which is what we do most days anyway. The only imperative is that he gets a chance to run off some energy. Whether he does it by hiking, playing fetch or playing with other dogs... it's all good.
> 
> The one good thing about taking him to the dog park - he's picked up on doggy body language. He knows to leave certain dogs alone, to interact with others, etc.


We went to the dog park for Jupiter's first 9 months or so. Well, 4-9 months. He made a few friends but mostly just wanted to chase the ball. The school where the incident occurred is a very large space, where some people bring their dogs to socialize, but I stay apart and just throw the ball.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

CactusWren said:


> We went to the dog park for Jupiter's first 9 months or so. Well, 4-9 months. He made a few friends but mostly just wanted to chase the ball. The school where the incident occurred is a very large space, where some people bring their dogs to socialize, but I stay apart and just throw the ball.


You know your dog better than anyone else. Don't allow people to pressure you into doing things that don't work for him. He sounds like a great dog.


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