# Too rough? (trying to find a puppy)



## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

I've had dogs in the pass. Some were big some were small. Now that I am planning on getting a GSD, I know that there will be times where myself and the dog get into some wrestling matches. Of course I won't be slamming or doing anything to cause pain to my future dog. But I just wanted to know, is wrestling with your dog ok? Does it help with you two bonding in anyway? Thanks in advance!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I wouldn't encourage this. Your dog may try to play rough with others, the the other people may not see it as endearing and cute as you do. 

GSD puppies are little landsharks that LOVE to play with their mouth (which are full of sharp teeth - OUCH!). For this reason, pups are redirected to tug toys so they learn to bring you a toy when they want to play. My GSD keep bringing me toys and sticks and pushing them into my hands so I'll grab on and play tug with him. He does the same thing to other people - so no worries that he'll decide that jumping on someone, or grabbing their arm to wrestle is okay. 

So if you want to play rough and wrestle with your dog, always do it WITH a toy, like a ball on a string, a heavy rope, or a tugging toy.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> I wouldn't encourage this. Your dog may try to play rough with others, the the other people may not see it as endearing and cute as you do.
> 
> GSD puppies are little landsharks that LOVE to play with their mouth (which are full of sharp teeth - OUCH!). For this reason, pups are redirected to tug toys so they learn to bring you a toy when they want to play. My GSD keep bringing me toys and sticks and pushing them into my hands so I'll grab on and play tug with him. He does the same thing to other people - so no worries that he'll decide that jumping on someone, or grabbing their arm to wrestle is okay.
> 
> So if you want to play rough and wrestle with your dog, always do it WITH a toy, like a ball on a string, a heavy rope, or a tugging toy.


Agree with this!

I will admit I do wrestle some with my adult dog, but I didn't start allowing it until he was safely out of puppyhood and teenagerdom (around 3 for him) and his obedience was excellent.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Airman1stclass said:


> I've had dogs in the pass. Some were big some were small. Now that I am planning on getting a GSD, I know that there will be times where myself and the dog get into some wrestling matches. Of course I won't be slamming or doing anything to cause pain to my future dog. But I just wanted to know, is wrestling with your dog ok? Does it help with you two bonding in anyway? Thanks in advance!


I agree with Castlemaid. 

Another thing to consider is not all GSD's are equal in temperment behavior and threshold. Like my boy, he is 98 lbs. now. Low threshold, and very rough player. I have tried to wrestle with him when he was younger and found out real quick then, this is not a dog that you want to do this with when he's 100 lbs. He is relentless, rough and the harder you go the harder he goes. That....... is a prescription for some stitches or worse. It's a situation I don't want to put my dog into. It's not his fault, it's not a downside. It's just how he's wired.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

There are lots of way to have controlled tug play with your dog and dogsports such a schutzhund or IPO where the dog biting is in a controlled fashion. I agree with the others. It is great and very rewarding for the dog but the dog always needs to know you are in charge of the game.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I don't do the wrestling thing with Lisl either. She gets very excited very quickly. 

She has a fast reaction time and her teeth are very sharp.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Wouldn't start something you cannot finish.. I'm serious. You don't want to encourage because dog will win, if not with toy, some unsuspecting soul. 

Not fair to allow behavior that's ok with you, but punishable with others.

"Unteachin" is much more difficult.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Airman1stclass said:


> I've had dogs in the pass. Some were big some were small. Now that I am planning on getting a GSD, I know that there will be times where myself and the dog get into some wrestling matches. Of course I won't be slamming or doing anything to cause pain to my future dog. But I just wanted to know, is wrestling with your dog ok? Does it help with you two bonding in anyway? Thanks in advance!



Heck yeah it helps....

There is a bit of a learning curve of course because a GSD is well equipped with the tools to make wrestling not so much fun for the human but in a short time the dog learns based on your guidance.

Almost on a daily basis, I simply say to my pooch..."ya wanna wrestle?" and she knows it game time. Yes, I've had a drop of blood or two at times but most always only because it was an accident...if the dog wanted to seriously clamp down, it would be a trip to the ER not just a scratch or two.

I never do too much of the pinning stuff while we are wrestling, usually it's just mild forearm shivers, open hand cuffs to the head and body and a sleeper hold of sorts, I have yet to try a superplex off the top rope yet...don't reckon I will..the paw slapping and mouthing by the pooch is their general defense accompanied by lots of dekes. In the beginning, when it would escalate a bit too much, I knew when to stop...like I said a GSD has the tools to make play wrestling not seem so playful....granted the dog is playing but it's too much for me. Once your pooch figures out the game and that humans have flesh with pain receptors under their clothing they get pretty crafty at just grabbing loose pant legs or sleeves.

In the winter when I have plenty of layers on, we do pseudo-schutzhund as I call it. When we are outside and I tell her game on and it's go time, she'll latch on to my forearm at times with a bit more force than usual but nothing painful. I think GSD's are so damned smart that they can easily distinguish between bite forces in a fairly short time. Oh, if she does knock me over during pseudo-shutzhund game time, I just curl up in a ball and play dead until she paws me hard enough to get me to move. I then command her to drag me to safety....but she's still working on that. We always and I mean always end our sessions with a warm handshake and a friendly demeanor.

Also, if my furry gal ever and I mean EVER tries to wrestle with anyone else ( who didn't want to) I get very jealous and curtail it immediately hence it is not an issue. However, if someone instigates a wrestling session with my pooch, I most certainly do not hold my dog back....she's smart enough now at 1 1/2 years to know how to play with humans.

Good luck and enjoy,

SuperG


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

LoveEcho said:


> Agree with this!
> 
> I will admit I do wrestle some with my adult dog, but I didn't start allowing it until he was safely out of puppyhood and teenagerdom (around 3 for him) and his obedience was excellent.


I should clarify that while I do occasionally wrestle with Echo, he is not in the least bit excitable, it is with a toy, and I am very much in control the whole time. It really depends on your dog, but definitely not advisable with a young one.


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## havery (Jan 1, 2014)

I just now am starting to play wrestle with my girl, she's 1.5 years old. I discouraged it until she got a good grasp on "leave it" and "stop." She also grew up with very small children from day 1 so she understands the need to be gentle with the little ones and she refuses to play rough with them even in the same room, as soon as my two year old walks in she lays down or leaves the room. But I wouldn't do it with a dog that wasn't raised with children or didn't understand "leave it" strictly, just because I'd be scared she or he would be too rough with other people. I was worried about that with our new adoption, but he refuses to bite me harder than a nibble, no matter how much I goad him on. I actually just got done with a rough session with both of mine and I've got welts all over my arms from my girl, but as soon as I told them to stop, leave it, they backed off and we all came inside calmly. I think that's half the fun of having big dogs, but I wouldn't encourage it from an early age. Tug was the roughest we got until recently.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

i see no problem with wrestling with your dog. i think its great bonding time. like a father and son wrestling. i also think its good at teach impulse control and proofing the "out" in a pretty hectic situation. i probably do it once a month or whenever the urge comes. its important to make sure you are the one that starts and ends the game though. my dog only bites me when we "fight". he doesnt go around the house biting me whenever HE wants to play or wants something. if he wants something he'll just sit and stare at me and whine like a big baby. more importantly is that he doesnt initiate this type of play with anyone else in the house. he doesnt start the wrestling matches; you do. i would teach the "out" first. then you can teach how hard to bite. some people dont want the dog to put teeth on them at all. with me if he bites with a certain amount of pressure i will "out" him. enough times and he'll understand that if i bite this hard then the game stops. i dont really think it matters if pup or adult as long as the dog has good nerves and a very solid out command. 

if the dog doesnt look like its enjoying the game then its probably time to play tug. some gsds will look at you like you're crazy if you tried to wrestle with it. others might bite you for real and not "out". depends on how well you can gauge your dog and its nerves. i would NEVER let my dog wrestle with a stranger. i'm afraid he might not out. i also dont want strangers to be able to "out" my dog.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

just dont be like this idiot


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

I roughhouse with my dog, but I grew up with GSDs, and my current dog is a pushover, lol. He can get a little rough, but if I see he is becoming overstimulated, I switch to calm play, and he follows. Not every dog will do that. Temperament is born, and a really big deal with these dogs. Rough housing depends on you and the dog, really... Mine will play with me in a way he doesn't with others, so carryover has never been an issue. But if this is your first GSD, I would say stick with obedience and wow your friends with tricks and commands, and leave the rough play until you're more experienced. For a newbie, you're walking on a slippery slope letting your dog think he has the upper hand for even a moment. Overall, it's better to have a controlled GSD, than one who thinks he can Win any fight at his own whim. If you wanna be athletic with your dog, challenge him in other ways. Test his skills by making him run hard with you, work for you, and pass your intelligence tests  And in the end, it's not about rough housing and subduing your GSD, it's about raising a master's dog. 


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

hey boomer where did u get ur dog? what lines? just curious reminds me of mine.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

to the op I use to play fight with my lab and samoyed not my shepherds though, they get carried away overstimulated and just would hurt me by mistake.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

pets4life said:


> hey boomer where did u get ur dog? what lines? just curious reminds me of mine.


Hobby breeder. Combined dogs from van den heuvel kennel and jipo me kennel


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Boomer, how old is that dog of yours? Mine is approaching 3 this summer and I am starting to see real fight drive and real dominance (or whatever term people want to use). My arms are already scratched up with him trying to wrap me and wrestle which I don't allow. 

At this stage in our life I am NILIF and a lot of obedience. He does not even get a ball thrown without downing, dropping it and returning to a heel and must stay until I release. I am glad I did not start that game. That said, I am not a guy and know I would be in trouble if it got too real which is what I intend to prevent. OP has a wife, too you know. She may not appreciate.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

jocoyn said:


> Boomer, how old is that dog of yours? Mine is approaching 3 this summer and I am starting to see real fight drive and real dominance (or whatever term people want to use). My arms are already scratched up with him trying to wrap me and wrestle which I don't allow.
> 
> At this stage in our life I am NILIF and a lot of obedience. He does not even get a ball thrown without downing, dropping it and returning to a heel and must stay until I release. I am glad I did not start that game. That said, I am not a guy and know I would be in trouble if it got too real which is what I intend to prevent. *OP has a wife, too you know. She may not appreciate.*


All of the above, especially the part I bolded. The thing is, it could be perfectly fine and your dog would never take it too far, s/he might learn who it's appropriate to play rough with and when, and never do it with anyone but you and only when initiated by you, but you're not going to know that in advance. By the time you do know it might be too late, and then you've got problem behavior to fix that could have been easily prevented from the very beginning. 

For me, I'd rather go the other way and start out with fairly strict NILIF, relaxing my standards later, when it's clear that it's no longer necessary, than to go back and try to put more control on my dog after the fact. In addition to NILIF I'm a big fan of training default behaviors (such as sits and downs with eye contact) and impulse control. If you end up not needing it, no big deal. But if you do, it's better to have that foundation from puppy-hood than to try and create it with a 6 month or year or two year old dog. A good rule of thumb is to never allow your puppy to get away with behavior that you wouldn't find acceptable in a 70+ pound adult dog.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

I too have a family. My dog is gentle with everyone. Dogs are smart. I never had to teach him to "not wrestle" with other family members. He would rather give kisses for food. But if someone wanted to get rough with him then he's all for it. If a dog is putting his mouth on people then that's nothing more than a training issue. There are better ways to play with your dog though. Just saying playing really rough isn't "bad" if you train it right. It's a game to him but honestly he's training his aus, sit, down, impulse control, bite inhibition, etc in a really heighten and frantic state.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Aaahhh well, here goes. I am a 67 year old woman, 5'4", and, yes, I have always wrestled with my GSDs, and wolf shepherds, too. Only the ones I raised from puppies, though, not so much the rescues I have had. Some of the rescues, after we had been together long enough and we knew each other well enough, so that they knew they would NEVER win if by chance anything turned serious (I was always a strong enough woman to back that up). Ideally you control things so they DON'T turn serious.

Have to tell you about one of my wolf shepherds, my heart, whom we called our "wolf in shepherd's clothing"... Even though I could trim his toenails, he never really liked his toes messed with, like he was actually ticklish. He was the sort, though, he was so much fun to play with--I would make my hand crawl across the floor like a giant spider toward his toes, then the 'spider' would pounce on them (lightly, not to hurt him). He would growl and jump away, then get close again, with a grin on his face, and wait for the 'spider' to come after his toes again. This would go on until he decided it was too much, then he would suddenly do the stiff-legged leap and pounce on my hand with his front legs, like a wolf pounces on small prey in the wild. If I wasn't fast enough to get my hand back, it got smashed under 120 lbs of wolfdog--probably why my hands are arthritic today! But it was fun, and we always knew when our games were done, he was my baby!


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> I too have a family. My dog is gentle with everyone. Dogs are smart. I never had to teach him to "not wrestle" with other family members. He would rather give kisses for food. But if someone wanted to get rough with him then he's all for it. If a dog is putting his mouth on people then that's nothing more than a training issue. There are better ways to play with your dog though. Just saying playing really rough isn't "bad" if you train it right. It's a game to him but honestly he's training his aus, sit, down, impulse control, bite inhibition, etc in a really heighten and frantic state.


Your dog is around 8 months, right? And just bit a friend for apparently no reason, right? So you actually don't know yet what the repercussions/result will be yet of your training and lifestyle where it pertains to the dog.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

I have to add one thing to my last post. Even though I played rough with all my canines, I have shared my household with my sister who has a number of disabilities. None of the dogs I played rough with EVER carried it over to her. They were always extra careful of her, some even acting as a 'seizure dog' for her. The rescue male GSD I have now (we've had him only 8 months) barks to wake me up if she calls me at night and I don't hear her, no fail. I firmly believe it is part of the GSD intelligence and shepherding instinct.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think just because many have dogs they have rough housed with, that didn't carry it over to other people/members of the family, doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

If I want to have some 'contact' play with my dogs, it's usually tugging, no wrestling.

These dogs can be mouthy enough and to encourage it, at some point, they are going to think it's ok to mouth any OLD person or kid, and could do some damage. 

One may not think it will happen, but why risk it ? Lots of ways to play with your dog that doesn't include wrestling ..Just MHO


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

boomer your dog is all old line type czech? does he have a lot of prey drive? sorry for off topic lol


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I think just because many have dogs they have rough housed with, that didn't carry it over to other people/members of the family, doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
> 
> If I want to have some 'contact' play with my dogs, it's usually tugging, no wrestling.
> 
> ...


cant the exact same thing be said for schutzhund/psa dogs? why risk it? i dont think dogs are stupid. there is a reason they are innately more gentle with children. they have instincts too. a schutzhund dog wouldnt just run up to anyone with a puffy jacket and bite their forearm. why would a dog just randomly put his mouth on someone when he was been taught he never initiates "wrestling"? 

also a pup doesnt go all land shark mode on a stranger. they only do it to members of their pack because they are comfortable and trying to play. wouldnt the same hold true for an adult dog wanting to wrestle? why would he want to do that kind of personal play with strangers?


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

What kind of gsd would this be?


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

Color I mean


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

That would grow up to be a sable. Something looks a bit different on the pup though. Is it purebred? Sables tend to start out fawn colored with a dark stripe down the back and then change color many times as they get older. 

Oh, RUN DON"T WALK this looks BYB there are lots of puppy mills in PA - I found the puppy with the image. Remember how we said that this is a popular color. You can expect to spend about $1200-$2000 for a nice working line black sable puppy from a good breeder.

German Shepherd Puppies for Sale | Lancaster Puppies


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Airman1stclass said:


> View attachment 164825
> 
> 
> What kind of gsd would this be?


You won't know from a puppy picture. Color won't end up mattering to you in the long run. Get your hands on the pedigree for sire and dam and start a thread asking for opinions before you purchase. Pedigree is really the only best predictor. And then, only appearance and temperament. After that, the real responsibility will be on you to train the dog to behave as you expect. 


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> That would grow up to be a sable. Something looks a bit different on the pup though. Is it purebred? Sables tend to start out fawn colored with a dark stripe down the back and then change color many times as they get older.
> 
> Oh, RUN DON"T WALK this looks BYB there are lots of puppy mills in PA - I found the puppy with the image. Remember how we said that this is a popular color. You can expect to spend about $1200-$2000 for a nice working line black sable puppy from a good breeder.
> 
> German Shepherd Puppies for Sale | Lancaster Puppies


Yeah I'm not interested in a pup like this. Just thought it was different in looks. Never ever seen a pup of this color. Well not a GSD.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sables go through all kinds of wonky phases and you never know exactly what you are going to get until you are there. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...nybody-have-pictures-sable-multiple-ages.html


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

i agree you cant predict a dog's adult color by looking at it as a pup. a better indication is how the parents look. i wanted a dark sable and when i was looking i would always look at the pictures of the parents. no matter how dark and nicely pigmented the pup looked if the parents looked washed out then i moved on. color isnt the most important thing but there are a lot of great breeders so if you look hard enough you'll find one with great nerves and the exact color you're looking for.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The pictures I posted showed some who were than light tan as pups then got darker.


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

*Help with price debate*

So I'm here explaining to my wife why we need to get a high quality dog. Which won't be as inexpensive as those $300 dogs. She believes we can get just any old pooch and expect him to live a long and healthy life. So I need help winning this debate. As of now, I have told her about temperament, pedigree, OFA guarantees, and just being more healthy if we purchase a dog from a reputable breeder whose price may be $1500. Is there anything I'm missing or can anyone help me help her understand a little better why we should go with the good breeder. Keep in mind my wife is all far the idea of getting a pup. She wants one just as bad as I do and is just as committed to helping raise, train and exercise the pup as I am. She's just into saving money. ( I refuse to get buy from byb) so until I sway her thought. I won't be getting a pup.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

I paid $700 to a puppy mill after fostering my boy throughout a four month lawsuit, the upshot of which was that the county sheriff had illegally seized over 300 starving dogs  and I overspent for a reactive dog. 

He's pretty in pictures, and he's *fantastic* with children, but he's reactive, and dog aggressive (limited, but enough to make my life more difficult), and I don't know whether he will ever stop flinching when strangers reach to pet him. 

I have, over the past two years, spent over $4000 on professional trainers and an average of an hour or more every day of my own focused time rehabilitating this dog. And he is fantastic!! But has a long way to go, yet, to overcome his birthright.

You don't want a $300 GSD. You just don't. You *might* get lucky. More likely, you will become attached to a money pit of a dog that will be a source of discontent and constant stress in your family. Make the investment now, and save yourself the cash and grief for the long run. After all, you *are* making a 12-17 year investment. It's not at all, but kinda like, buying a car or a sofa or a mattress. There's only a degree of guarantee, but if you expect it to run with you and sleep with you and perform when you expect it to, well then, you gotta buy what you want from the get go. 



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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Take the cost and break it down over a 12 year period. Compare that to the cost of everything else and it kind of sinks down to insignificant.

A good breeder is putting the money into proving their stock is breed-worthy then being there for you if something goes wrong. You can still get a great dog for $300 and a pig in a poke for $2000 but the odds are better when you work with a good experienced breeder who knows what they are putting together.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Airman1stclass said:


> So I'm here explaining to my wife why we need to get a high quality dog. Which won't be as inexpensive as those $300 dogs. She believes we can get just any old pooch and expect him to live a long and healthy life. So I need help winning this debate. As of now, I have told her about temperament, pedigree, OFA guarantees, and just being more healthy if we purchase a dog from a reputable breeder whose price may be $1500. Is there anything I'm missing or can anyone help me help her understand a little better why we should go with the good breeder. Keep in mind my wife is all far the idea of getting a pup. She wants one just as bad as I do and is just as committed to helping raise, train and exercise the pup as I am. She's just into saving money. ( I refuse to get buy from byb) so until I sway her thought. I won't be getting a pup.


HAHAHAH i remember that battle. its definitely an uphill one. its hard for "normal" people to understand why someone would spend 1000+ on a pup when they can get one for 300 and they both look the same. my main point is that you can get away with getting most breeds from byb but with a gsd they are born with natural aggression. get a nervy shepherd and that aggression can come out in wrong ways. add to the fact that gsds are really popular and are wayyyyy over bred, the odds increase of getting a one with unstable temperment. if all else fails then just tell her to read this forum. its full of issues from dogs that dont have strong nerves. 

i've own a nervy dog and it was life changing (mostly social life). you can fix a lot of things but you cant fix nerves.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Actually nerves are a *major *problem in the breed, because many people do not know how to read a dog and see a scared, snarling barking dog as being "protective" and, therefore, breed-worthy when the last thing it will do is protect you - though it may bite out of fear. I would say getting a dog with good temperament (including drives for intended use) trumps everything else, then health, then structure, then looks.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

Working lines are a bit cheaper (1000) and less likely to have nerve issues.


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

Should I expect my GSD to alert me if someone is knocking on our door or trying to brrak in? Also I seen this video on YouTube. An untrained dog will not protect you. How true is this, because all the research I have been doing is telling me that GSD are really protective of their "pack" or family. Would my dog just let a stranger walk rigjt into the house?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Airman1stclass said:


> Should I expect my GSD to alert me if someone is knocking on our door or trying to brrak in? Also I seen this video on YouTube. An untrained dog will not protect you. How true is this, because all the research I have been doing is telling me that GSD are really protective of their "pack" or family. Would my dog just let a stranger walk rigjt into the house?


Do you expect your future dog to protect you or just alert you that someone is entering your house? My dogs have ALWAYS alert barked at the doorbell, and I'm sure they would continue barking if someone were to just let themselves in, but since we keep the door locked that doesn't happen. 

In the case of an actual intruder? Who knows? But since we have two big barking dogs I'm pretty sure our house would be passed over in favor of a neighboring house that DOESN'T have scary sounding dogs in residence. 

Now if you want your dog to be willing and able to actually lay down his life to protect you and your family, that would require training. Alert barking would probably not, so if it's a just a deterrent you're looking for, I think you'd be covered.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Airman1stclass said:


> Should I expect my GSD to alert me if someone is knocking on our door or trying to brrak in? Also I seen this video on YouTube. An untrained dog will not protect you. How true is this, because all the research I have been doing is telling me that GSD are really protective of their "pack" or family. Would my dog just let a stranger walk rigjt into the house?


My female mix will totally alert bark and growl at the window when someone is on the drive way. She sounds insane, but she would be the first one to let a stranger into the house to help themselves to anything..she would also gladly follow them to there car and drive away with them. Lord knows what the big idiot is mixed with, but clearly she has a helping of GSD in her. My border collie would not let someone into my home, thats just him..but he does not put on the growly show at the window, he barks and watches.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Eko alert barks if he even thinks he hears the door, and I know no one would get through the door without me. He has had to go through training for being aggressive around the door, and has almost bit in the past when people I knew would just open the door and walk in. But every dog is different best protection dog is a trained protection dog.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

I think any normal dog would alert when someone is at the door whether it's a gsd, golden retriever, or pomeranian. My friend has a "beware gsd on premise" sign but she owns a golden retriever and his bark is deep and fierce and you'd never know what kind of dog it is unless you opened the door. 

Now if you want a dog that will bite and protect you then you need to get a dog with the right traits. You can't just train any german Shepherd to protect. It's more about the dog then the training.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i didn't see anything idiot about the guy and his dog seemed
well trained. he rough house with the dog then he told the dog 
to give him a kiss, his paw. 



boomer11 said:


> just dont be like this idiot
> 
> Kato Fight - YouTube


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

*Competition dogs*

So I was thinking. Lets say I wanted to have my dog in some sort of sport whether that be agility or schutzhund. Training my future dog would probably be easier since I'm a cop in the military. Security Forces. Aka "base police" I have a couple friends I work with that are K-9 handlers that I'm sure wouldn't mind helping me out. Back to my point, I know for sure I don't want a low energy dog. But are high energy dogs only bred for sports? Or could some exercising and fetch suffice to its physical needs?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The untrained dog will not protect you video is a joke. It has also been ripped apart here. However, if you want a dog for true protection it needs to be trained and you and your wife would need to participate so you could control it. It may impact your ability to get homeowners insurance as well.

Also even a top notch sport dog may not have what it takes to actually engage and fight for its life. Most sport dogs are also trained only to bite a sleeve. Owning a dog who knows it is ok to bite someone without a sleeve adds another level of responsibility and a lot of training to maintain. If you are thinking of kids, well that adds another dimension. 

If the bad guy has a gun or a knife, well......To me, the biggest bang for your buck is having a dog who will be a good alert barker without being just a barker for the heck of it. 

A dog with more energy and with more drive is going to demand more work. You can get by with fetch and running but you also need to maintain obedience training. I don't care what the weather is or how cold or nasty or even hot, I am outside with my dog either doing long offlead walks or throwing balls multiple times a day.There are lines that still have some fight drive that are not bonkers all the time. Even a dog not bonkers is going to demand a good bit of interaction and exercise.


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

*Playing rough.*

So my puppy seems to be bored unles we are horse playing and wrestling and stuff like that. Only problem is he plays really rough. Biting and shaking abd I can handle it now. But idk about later. And I don't want him doing it with kids and other people. But his toys onky entertain him for so long. And rough housing is the only thing he really seems to enjoy. Any advice on this?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Airman1stclass said:


> Should I expect my GSD to alert me if someone is knocking on our door or trying to brrak in?


Maybe. Maybe Not.



Airman1stclass said:


> Would my dog just let a stranger walk rigjt into the house?


Maybe. Maybe Not.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Airman1stclass said:


> So my puppy seems to be bored unles we are horse playing and wrestling and stuff like that. Only problem is he plays really rough. Biting and shaking abd I can handle it now. But idk about later. And I don't want him doing it with kids and other people. But his toys onky entertain him for so long. And rough housing is the only thing he really seems to enjoy. Any advice on this?


Teach him Intense Tug.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Only rough house if you are the one initiating the play and you can stop the play with a command. If the dog is biting you to play and you have to physically pull the dog off then you are doing nothing but teaching bad habits. 

I personally wouldn't rough house with a little pup. They need to learn bite inhibition first.


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## Phantom (May 9, 2013)

I wrestle with her, it is one of the only things she seems to enjoy. She has to stop when I tell her to though.


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

boomer11 said:


> Only rough house if you are the one initiating the play and you can stop the play with a command. If the dog is biting you to play and you have to physically pull the dog off then you are doing nothing but teaching bad habits.
> 
> I personally wouldn't rough house with a little pup. They need to learn bite inhibition first.


Not sure how to teach bite inhibition. I do initate it but I have to pull him off of me. I see video that teach your dog not to bite, I don't want him to stop biting, I guess I just want him to not bite as hard (bite inhibition) but I don't want that to effect any protection training that I plan on doing later down the road. And yeah I'll start working on ending the play. Im guessing that's where training not to bite would come in? Only when your done playing?


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

You should teach the pup not to bite you. It will NOT effect bite work. 

Search for bite inhibition in the search bar above. It ranges from physically correcting to pretending the bites don't hurt (which Imo is laugh out loud stupid). Do whatever you are comfortable with as long as you are consistent. 

I wouldn't play with the pup when it's biting you. You are teaching him that's how he's suppose to play. 

I wouldn't rough house with a dog until at least 6-7 months old. Right now your dog barely knows sit much less an out command.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Here's Micheal Ellis's take on it-


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