# I had to rehome my female yesterday :(



## Scotty

Hello everyone,

Yesterday I rehomed my female shephard "Moxie" to a very nice couple that own another shepherd and wanted a companion for him. I REALLY hated to see Moxie go but she needed far more exercise than we could give her and it was causing behavior problems. The straw that broke the camels back was last week when Moxie and my other Shepherd Thello somehow got out of my fenced in backyard and chased some school children around, a little girl got a few scrathches on her leg and that scared me because I could have been sued or one of the dogs been put down had the scratch bled. I dodged a bullet on that incident and decided that Moxie had to find a better home. We all know how heartbreaking it is to lose a pet for any reason and even though Moxie will be happier at her new home I miss her. Since becoming a first time dog owner on Feb. 9 2009 I now have a deep hate for anyone who is cruel to animals and a deep love for shepherds and animals in general. Things are much better now with just my male in the house and no snarling and snapping going on, it's so quiet ! We are all lucky to have these animals in our lives.

Thanks for reading my story and enjoy your shepherds as much as I do,

Scott


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## ikeenzo07

Hello, 

Sounds like you made the right decision on re homing her. I Am sure they will take care of her. Take care. 

Alyssa


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## Deuce

Sorry you had to rehome her but I think you made the right decision, too.


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## ba1614

It must have been a tough decision for you to make, kudos for making the tough one.

She's a beautiful girl!


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## Scotty

Thanks ! It helps to talk to others that know my dilemma.


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## London's Mom

You did the right thing no matter how difficult it was.


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## ken k

you did the right thing, around here if 2 GSD`s got loose and went to play with the school kids, they would have been shot by the cops


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## mssandslinger

thank you for doing the right thing and not just giving up the dog to a shelter! makes me happy to know people CAN handle situations the right way.


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## Emoore

Sounds to me like you should keep Thello in the house.


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## doggiedad

first time dog owner with 2 dogs snarling and snapping
at each other. i say you did something wrong in your training.
you left 2 dogs unattended in your yard and they got out.
that's one of the many reason i don't leave my dog unattended.
now that your dogs got out once they know how to do it. keep
an eye out on your dog. is your dog trained? you could teach
him not to leave the yard when the gate is open. you could teach
him boundaries so he doesn't leave your property.

i don't have that sentiment "oh, poor guy had to rehome his dog",
my feelings are you had to rehome your dog because you weren't 
responsible enough for her welfare. on the other hand you did
the right thing by rehoming one. train, socialize and take care of the one you have. you can start by leaving your dog in the yard unattended.


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## Scotty

Well Doggiedad thanks for your input, I guess. I rehomed Moxie also because she was so high energy that having her cooped up in the house was starting to cause behavior problems and that's not fair to her. The solution would have been a LOT more exercise which is what her new place will provide her with.

As for the snarling and snapping issue : we got our female Moxie then 4 months later brought our male "Thello" into the picture and it took awhile for them to get along but Moxie would still pick on him causing skirmishes and since I have a 7 month old baby with the possibility of another baby on the horizon I decided that having two shepherds around two little kids is too much risk. Yes I could have done better but how much better ?


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## DJEtzel

doggiedad said:


> first time dog owner with 2 dogs snarling and snapping
> at each other. i say you did something wrong in your training.
> you left 2 dogs unattended in your yard and they got out.
> that's one of the many reason i don't leave my dog unattended.
> now that your dogs got out once they know how to do it. keep
> an eye out on your dog. is your dog trained? you could teach
> him not to leave the yard when the gate is open. you could teach
> him boundaries so he doesn't leave your property.
> 
> i don't have that sentiment "oh, poor guy had to rehome his dog",
> my feelings are you had to rehome your dog because you weren't
> responsible enough for her welfare. on the other hand you did
> the right thing by rehoming one. train, socialize and take care of the one you have. you can start by leaving your dog in the yard unattended.


I agree. I think most here do though, just trying not to cause problems...



Scotty said:


> Well Doggiedad thanks for your input, I guess. I rehomed Moxie also because she was so high energy that having her cooped up in the house was starting to cause behavior problems and that's not fair to her. The solution would have been a LOT more exercise which is what her new place will provide her with.
> 
> As for the snarling and snapping issue : we got our female Moxie then 4 months later brought our male "Thello" into the picture and it took awhile for them to get along but Moxie would still pick on him causing skirmishes and since I have a 7 month old baby with the possibility of another baby on the horizon I decided that having two shepherds around two little kids is too much risk. *Yes I could have done better but how much better?*


You could have NOT gotten a dog (let alone two) that you could not take care of. If you can't exercise Moxie then what's Thello getting? 

Yes, she was having behavioral problems because you weren't training or exercising her. That's what happens. It sounds like shepherds are not for you.


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## Holmeshx2

just my POV here but anyone notice I believe the female was the sable telling me she was more then likely working lines which can be a disaster in waiting for someone who doesn't excersize their pets properly possibly poorly bred poorly trained etc.. Do I feel sorry no not actually was it for the best definitely. As much as I hate dogs being rehomed I'd rather then get over being rehomed then to be kept somewhere that can not take care of their needs.


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## Scotty

Definitely a crappy situation that is now resolved. I learned a LOT, made mistakes and now know what to do better in the future. I will be periodically checking on Moxie and if she is being mistreated or neglected I'll take her back and do things right.


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## DJEtzel

Scotty said:


> Definitely a crappy situation that is now resolved. I learned a LOT, made mistakes and now know what to do better in the future. I will be periodically checking on Moxie and if she is being mistreated or neglected I'll take her back and do things right.


So if she has to come back to you you'll exercise her only _then?_


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## Mac's Mom

Its obvious that coming to the decision to rehome Moxie was tough for you. I respect you for rehoming him and committing to check on him. A lot of people dump dogs off at the shelter. I don't know how much exercise your dogs get or what your training methods are. But I can tell you that Mac requires more exercise than I ever imagined. If I had a baby or even a full time job...I personally couldn't do it. So I understand how you feel. Take care.


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## vat

I am glad you did the right thing. It does sound like you have realized that you bit off more than you could chew. GSD are high maintenance, some more than others. Hopefully you will learn some great tips here to help you with the dog you still have.


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## Scotty

Thanks everyone ! hahaha I just got a phone call and Moxies not working out at the new home so back here she comes. Sheesh. Now what ?


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## Elaine

There are a number of all breed rescues you can call and see if they will take her.


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## Runswithdogs

They only gave her a day to adjust? How did they handle introductions etc?


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## irongrl

I just found this site

German Shepherd Rescue Groups < Minnesota >

This might be helpful, unless you are keeping Moxie.

Good luck,

Judy


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## Deuce

Elaine said:


> There are a number of all breed rescues you can call and see if they will take her.


I agree with Elaine. I hope she finds a good, fitting home.


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## liv

I don't have any experience regarding rehoming or anything of that nature, but even if you need to find another new home for her, she needs exercise and stimulation in the meantime. I find that a flirt pole drains far more energy as well as intensity in both mine and the foster in less time than anything else. I would also think that she should probably only be outside when you are able to supervise her to prevent the escaping and chasing children scenario. As the recurring mantra on this site goes - a tired puppy is a good puppy!

I would definitely be looking into all breed rescues as the above posters mentioned, but of course, owner surrenders tend to be the last dogs taken since dogs in high kill shelters are obviously at higher risk. However, quite a few will (around here at least) will post them, if you are able to keep the dog until it finds a home.

Hope you are able to find a good solution soon!


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## vat

Well they did not give her long! Why did they say it was not working out?


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## Elaine

There are no GSD specific rescues here in MN anymore; you would have to go with an all breed rescue. You won't know until you contact them if they will take your dog or not. Many of them will do a courtesy posting for you while you hang on to the dog.


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## KZoppa

okay they had her one day. If i remember correctly, you said they were GSD knowledgable. IF that were true, they would know it takes longer than a day for a dog to get used to and feeling comfortable in new surroundings such as a new home! They've been tossed into a new place away from what they knew... you would need time to adjust too. I'm glad you realize she's too much for you and are trying to find her a good home but perhaps you didnt do well enough by her in your haste to get rid of her. interview, home check, references. those are some of the best things you can do to find her the right home.


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## GSDElsa

Why wasn't she working out? 24 hours isn't long to let a dog adjust and decide if they are working out or not. And I agree, in the mean time you have to get it together and come up with a plan for getting her worked...


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## DJEtzel

Wow, doesn't sound like either one of you need a dog. 

Find a no-kill shelter and take her there, please. Sooner rather than later if you won't be taking care of her exercise needs and are risking her life by letting her escape and chase kids.


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## Scotty

I exercise her one hour per day and that is nowhere near enough. Moxie got into a tussle (fight) with the "new" owners other shepherd and that was it. sheesh. here's my question for all of you "experts" if you are in fact so good with shepherds then how do I get Moxie to stop being so incredibly dominant ???

No criticisms here, I'm looking for good advise and help on this to help Moxie.


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## DJEtzel

What is your definition of being so incredibly dominant?


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## Mac's Mom

Sorry things didn't work out with the new owners. How old is Moxie? How long have you had her? I know that an hour a day would not be enough for my Mac either. But I luckily work from home and I don't have a baby so I have more time and energy. However, there was a week or so during the summer when I was swamped with work and couldn't give him all of the time he needed so I paid someone to play with him and walk him an hour a day. Is that an option for you?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I would start looking at local rescue websites - look for rescues that do application checks, vet references and home checks. Look for rescues that say and do have a lifetime guarantee for returns. Contact them and offer to foster her until she's adopted, and to help out - but let them do the processing and the home check.


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## zyppi

You need help training her. If she obeys you, you will have the upper hand with other dogs and children and be more relaxed.

She may need more mental stimulation. That wears mine out almost as much as physical exercise.

Set simple tasks. Teach her to stay, then get her favorite toy and while she's in a stay position, hide it and then release and ask her to find it.

Tons of games, that's just one example.

Train each dog separately. 15 minutes a day for each pup - only 30 minutes out of you schedule - will show wonderful results. Of course, two sessions each a day would be better.

Make time during your little one's naps?


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## KZoppa

dominance can be worked on with training. unfortunately dominance is also an issue that can escalate to the point the animal needs to be the only one in the house OR have a submissive dog in the house that doesnt want to be boss over the other. and walking one hour a day is not near enough if you have a dog thats not only not getting the mental stimulation but if its not a faced paced one hour, you better expect they're gonna want and need more than that. My dogs do NOT accept a slow average paced walk. If i were to walk them for an hour a day at my normal pace, i'd be royally screwed when we got home because it wouldnt have been enough. German Shepherds were bred as a herding dog. They have to have stamina to be out in the fields all day chasing obnoxious sheep where they need them to go. not to mention this is a breed that excells in most everything it has ever been trained to do. Some dogs are content to sit around the house gathering dust with everything else around them. German shepherds do not and have not ever fallen into the lazy dog catagory. They are BY NATURE a dominant breed. THIS alone is one of the many reasons we stress so much as responsible owners that socializing be done from the start constantly. These dogs can be independent thinks. If they're bored and getting into the trash, on your counters, into your fridge and anything else in the house has been done, they get bored with it and will find other means to stimulate their minds. THIS is what leads to behavioral problems. german shepherds are not for everyone just as labs arent for everyone. I chose shepherds because despite two kids and a military husband who is gone a large portion of the time, they are a breed i enjoy. I can handle their energy and drive and willingness to work and be with me. I understand them. I understand they're a dominant breed. BUT there is a difference between dominance and aggression. Without having witnessed the "tussle" myself, i cant say which it was. I know whenever i bring a new dog in, if its not a puppy younger than 6 months old, our current dogs do their own testing to see who will be higher on the totem pole. yes it leads to tussles. it will lead to fighting if the alpha which SHOULD BE the people dont step in and make it very clear that the behavior is unacceptable. If i remember correctly, you said these were your first dogs. What in the world were you thinking getting two at once, within weeks of each other if it was your first dog? These dogs are A LOT of work. They are not generally recommended for the first time dog owner. I certainly wouldnt recommend them for first timers. These dogs dont just start out perfect and grow into the perfect well behaved dog you see in movies or on training fields. Those dogs took massive amounts of training and work to get them to that point. German shepherds are an in your face whatcha doing can i do it too kind of dog. If they cant be with you they're not happy. if they cant be with you AND getting what they need from you nobody is happy. I also wouldnt recommend upon rehoming Moxie AGAIN unless its to a very experienced and german shepherd savy handler. if she's too much for you, she's probably going to be too much for someone else that doesnt know and fully understand this breed. another question, both of your dogs got out, yet you're only rehoming Moxie. Why not both? They both got out. they both caused trouble.


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## BowWowMeow

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I would start looking at local rescue websites - look for rescues that do application checks, vet references and home checks. Look for rescues that say and do have a lifetime guarantee for returns. Contact them and offer to foster her until she's adopted, and to help out - but let them do the processing and the home check.


Excellent advice. And she will be more adoptable if you take her through a couple of training classes. Perhaps some people have recommendations for training classes in your area?


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## Lucy Dog

What kind of training have you done? How is she with other dogs - any fear issues?

What exactly is she doing that makes you think she's being dominant?

And you said you do one hour of exercise per day, but what do you consider exercise? A hour walk? 

After that hour of exercise, what do you typically do with her?


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## doggiedad

correction; you can start by not leaving your dog in the
yard unattended.



doggiedad said:


> you can start by leaving your dog in the yard unattended.


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## doggiedad

you're a first time dog that has 2 dogs, um.



Scotty said:


> Well Doggiedad thanks for your input, I guess. I re.homed Moxie also because she was so high energy that having her cooped up in the house was starting to cause behavior problems and that's not fair to her. The solution would have been a LOT more exercise which is what her new place will provide her with.
> 
> As for the snarling and snapping issue : we got our female Moxie then 4 months later brought our male "Thello" into the picture and it took awhile for them to get along but Moxie would still pick on him causing skirmishes and since I have a 7 month old baby with the possibility of another baby on the horizon I decided that having two shepherds around two little kids is too much risk. Yes I could have done better but how much better ?


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## selzer

Rehoming a dog is not a bad thing if you find you are over your head with the dog.

Not all shepherds have like exercise needs. None of mine need an hour a day walking. But others need a lot of exercise. 

I think when people go into getting a dog breed, they are not always 100% well versed on the breed and the needs of the breed, the different lines and their pros and cons, the different bloodlines within the lines. 

You can try to rehome the dog again with help from a rescue if possible, or you can choose to try to work on her issues.

I think that either way, you should probably get her enrolled in classes, and start working on the issues so that if and when you do rehome her, she will be started on the right path. 

First thing is definitely to contain the dogs properly and not allow them to get loose. I know that you did not let them out of the yard, but now that you KNOW that they can get themselves out, and what they will do, you need to be a lot more careful with them, go out with them, and use a long line if necessary. This protects neighborhood children, your dog, and yourself.

2. Is training classes. If possible take both dogs to separate classes, even if they have been through classes at one point. Just expect to keep on signing them up, and taking them until you have a good working bond with each of them separately. How do you know when this has been acheived? It is hard to describe really, the dog should listen to you with or without treats, on lead or off lead, with distractions, and only the tone of your voice should be sufficient to correct them. This really does not happen overnight. It may take four or more SETS of classes (six to eight classes in a set).

Also, look up NILIF -- Nothing in life is free. Get a good handle on what it is, explain it to your wife and both of you apply it to both dogs. 

Good luck with them, whatever you decide.


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## Konotashi

I feel that you did the right thing. 

I know how hard it is to rehome one of your babies. We had to rehome one of our French bulldogs because they were fighting. Viciously. We were afraid that one day, we were going to come home to one of the boys dead, so we did what was best and found Yoda a new home. I still miss him. We still go and see him from time to time. Giving him up was much easier after I surveyed a bunch of people. She was SO excited to meet him and already told her whole family and said that we could come see him whenever we wanted. Knowing that really helped both me and my mom.


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## Konotashi

Scotty said:


> I exercise her one hour per day and that is nowhere near enough. Moxie got into a tussle (fight) with the "new" owners other shepherd and that was it. sheesh.* here's my question for all of you "experts" if you are in fact so good with shepherds then how do I get Moxie to stop being so incredibly dominant ???*
> 
> No criticisms here, I'm looking for good advise and help on this to help Moxie.


I didn't read through the entire thread. I'm sorry it didn't work out for the new owners, but if they only gave her that long, then that obviously wasn't the best home for her. 

The wording in this post wasn't exactly necessary, though. Why not just ask for help, rather than criticizing - which is what that is, despite saying you're not. 

Survey people. Let them KNOW that she needs some training. Don't make it a secret or she'll more than likely be returned to you again. Make SURE that the people that she may be going to live with are willing to work with her.


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## jenedge24

After reading the responses on this post I have to say, I have a love hate relationship with this forum. People can be so kind and supportive and truly concerned and want to help or cheer on GSD owners, or they can just come on to critisize and belittle because someone may not be the "master" at training, breeding, etc. I'm sure I'm going to be targeted for saying this but really, they are dogs, they don't speak, and I don't care how good you are with a dog, they can't tell you everything they need. Trial and error! Crap, I'd hate to see what some of you say about my parenting skills!! fact is people like scotty and even myself put ourselves out here in a few paragraphs and let you into our world for a little advice or just knowing someone else out there loves there dog too. I seriously doubt anyone on this forum does things deliberatly to hurt others or their dogs. So instead of taking a few paragraphs of someones lives and beating them down with your snid comments maybe you should log off go take your dog out for a run then come back and give that person the benefit of the doubt that they want what's best for their dog and your ignorant comments leave them feeling really bad. This is a place where people should feel safe to ask for help and discuss issues related to their pets. When your rude and get on your K9 fever, to protect this species with every judgemental comment you have your not helping, your pushing people away from having a place to go to help BE BETTER PET OWNERS!!! Sorry Scotty and to everyone who is so great! I'm sorry for your situation with your dog, so sad and I'm sure you felt torn and horrible. I'm sure she will find a good home. I'd let her vet know your situation and maybe the police dept. A lot of police officers(or retired) obviously have worked with the breed and might be in a situation to take on a dog that needs the extra time!! GOOD LUCK, love her while you have her, which I'm sure you do!! again I am sorry for my 2 cents!


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## Konotashi

Jen, I have to say - this is one of the nicest places to come for advice. I know it can get harsh sometimes, but even the 'worst' threads I've seen on here are worlds better than some other forums. 

I don't think this thread is as hard on the OP as others. Everyone is offering advice. If she takes it, great. If not, then that's up to her. 

*Everyone here is here for the dogs. *


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## codmaster

Hey Scotty, a small suggestion perhaps it willhelp.
"*here's my question for all of you "experts" if you are in fact so good with shepherds then how do I get Moxie to stop being so incredibly dominant ???"*

The above approach will probably not really help people to want tohelp you too much, I would guess.

BTW, I suspect that the answer to Moxie's behavior will be more of a process rather than an event that will "fix her" overnight. But let the "experts" give you a more detailed answer. I would suggest working with a real dog professional.


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## jenedge24

Your right they are! I believe there are amazing people on this forum that have a lot to offer and I am not discounting them at all they have been real life savers and have great ideas!!! But... In some cases we need to remember there are people too not just dogs and making people feel bad does not make for a confident owner. before being so harsh in our replys we need to take a step back and either ask more questions to understand the situation better, or give more constructive critisism. What it comes down to is we're here to communicate and we all do it differently...but we shouldn't be unkind.


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## KZoppa

jenedge24 said:


> After reading the responses on this post I have to say, I have a love hate relationship with this forum. People can be so kind and supportive and truly concerned and want to help or cheer on GSD owners, or they can just come on to critisize and belittle because someone may not be the "master" at training, breeding, etc. I'm sure I'm going to be targeted for saying this but really, they are dogs, they don't speak, and I don't care how good you are with a dog, they can't tell you everything they need. Trial and error! Crap, I'd hate to see what some of you say about my parenting skills!! fact is people like scotty and even myself put ourselves out here in a few paragraphs and let you into our world for a little advice or just knowing someone else out there loves there dog too. I seriously doubt anyone on this forum does things deliberatly to hurt others or their dogs. So instead of taking a few paragraphs of someones lives and beating them down with your snid comments maybe you should log off go take your dog out for a run then come back and give that person the benefit of the doubt that they want what's best for their dog and your ignorant comments leave them feeling really bad. This is a place where people should feel safe to ask for help and discuss issues related to their pets. When your rude and get on your K9 fever, to protect this species with every judgemental comment you have your not helping, your pushing people away from having a place to go to help BE BETTER PET OWNERS!!! Sorry Scotty and to everyone who is so great! I'm sorry for your situation with your dog, so sad and I'm sure you felt torn and horrible. I'm sure she will find a good home. I'd let her vet know your situation and maybe the police dept. A lot of police officers(or retired) obviously have worked with the breed and might be in a situation to take on a dog that needs the extra time!! GOOD LUCK, love her while you have her, which I'm sure you do!! again I am sorry for my 2 cents!


 
dont apologize for your 2 cents. i'm probably one of those critical people your talking about. The point of this forum is to provide support but also be critical of some things. The OP said a few things that are a big no no to do without experience and even people with experience wouldnt push their luck being new to the breed and getting two so close. If they'd waited to get a second dog, Moxie might not be in the situation SHE'S in. She would have gotten necessary training and its very possible the OP would have realized how much work just Moxie would need and her temperment towards other dogs given it sounds like she has a dominant personality. But as i've stated without actually having met Moxie or seen the scuffle at her 24 hour home, there's really no way to really know if it was a dominance scuffle or an aggression scuffle. It sounds like the OP got in over his head with two GSDs and is rehoming the one that is more trouble. THATS why people are getting snappy. We see far too many animals on this board listed as urgent or in need of a home to get them out of the shelter because their owners ditched them because they were too much trouble. Nobody bothered training most of them and they ended up with an unruly dog they had no clue how to handle. Moxie got out because she wasnt getting what she needed and it NEVER should have gotten to the point of her getting out and causing trouble. If more people did the research on the breed and talked to owners FIRST and speaking to breeders about the different lines, they may have found a GSD that would be happy just being. Moxie wouldnt be in the situation she's in. Being passed to a new home even for 24 hours is scary and unnerving when a dog doesnt know or understand WHY they're suddenly away from everything they know and care about. I'd be a PITA too if i was in her position. She's being a dog. She's being the dog she was bred to be. They're working dogs and some need more work to do than others. We're supportive when necessary but many of us wont give someone the ammunition for the gun.


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## middleofnowhere

In all these five pages, I missed anyone suggesting that the OP might contact the original breeder of Moxie for help placing her.

I applaud the OP for recognizing that two were too many in their situation. Of course, hindsight is much better than foresight. Of course everyone wishes that would have been known ahead of time. Then, too, had the OP looked at the forum very closely, they would have recognized that posting such a message would get the snarling response that they did. This causes me to wonder if the OP is just naive or if the post is a plant. Since the forum is viewed by many people, I offer my 2 cents with the assumption that the poster neglected to explore the forum before posting.

Placing a dog is a challenging and imperfect task. Best of luck.


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## jenedge24

KZoppa said:


> dont apologize for your 2 cents. i'm probably one of those critical people your talking about. The point of this forum is to provide support but also be critical of some things. The OP said a few things that are a big no no to do without experience and even people with experience wouldnt push their luck being new to the breed and getting two so close. If they'd waited to get a second dog, Moxie might not be in the situation SHE'S in. She would have gotten necessary training and its very possible the OP would have realized how much work just Moxie would need and her temperment towards other dogs given it sounds like she has a dominant personality. But as i've stated without actually having met Moxie or seen the scuffle at her 24 hour home, there's really no way to really know if it was a dominance scuffle or an aggression scuffle. It sounds like the OP got in over his head with two GSDs and is rehoming the one that is more trouble. THATS why people are getting snappy. We see far too many animals on this board listed as urgent or in need of a home to get them out of the shelter because their owners ditched them because they were too much trouble. Nobody bothered training most of them and they ended up with an unruly dog they had no clue how to handle. Moxie got out because she wasnt getting what she needed and it NEVER should have gotten to the point of her getting out and causing trouble. If more people did the research on the breed and talked to owners FIRST and speaking to breeders about the different lines, they may have found a GSD that would be happy just being. Moxie wouldnt be in the situation she's in. Being passed to a new home even for 24 hours is scary and unnerving when a dog doesnt know or understand WHY they're suddenly away from everything they know and care about. I'd be a PITA too if i was in her position. She's being a dog. She's being the dog she was bred to be. They're working dogs and some need more work to do than others. We're supportive when necessary but many of us wont give someone the ammunition for the gun.


I completely agree with everything above, ob brought it to the forum which leaves it open to be critizied, It's not rude when you back up your issues, which from the post I read you did. Sometimes it can be pretty harsh and it's not even over the situations like this which I concider REALLY BIG issues, especially when a dog has to go to a new home (again). sometimes people can be harsh right out of the gate over the little stuff. When someone is "giving it to you" no matter how right they are, human nature is defense, you don't really hear what they're saying because all you think is what a ...." Obviously OB got defensive the last reply so was the point taken? I don't know. I hope so for the dogs sake.


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## KZoppa

jenedge24 said:


> I completely agree with everything above, ob brought it to the forum which leaves it open to be critizied, It's not rude when you back up your issues, which from the post I read you did. Sometimes it can be pretty harsh and it's not even over the situations like this which I concider REALLY BIG issues, especially when a dog has to go to a new home (again). sometimes people can be harsh right out of the gate over the little stuff. When someone is "giving it to you" no matter how right they are, human nature is defense, you don't really hear what they're saying because all you think is what a ...." Obviously OB got defensive the last reply so was the point taken? I don't know. I hope so for the dogs sake.


 
i'm not going to lie. We got Shelby and fell in love with her. We wanted to breed her. People on this forum after hearing about her issues begged me not to. And after time of seeing qualities in her i wouldnt want in another dog, she's not going to bed bred. I like to think i'm pretty intelligent and knowledgable about the breed we all love so much and fight regularly to keep out of trouble so yeah, we get very upset when someone messes up and then passes the problem to someone else instead of sticking to the commitment they made to that animal. You dont ditch you kids off on someone else because they punched someone. You figure out how to work with them so they learn from mistakes and you do everything you can to get them on the right path. If you really considered that dog a member of your family, you do everything you can to keep them with you, even if it means some extra work. I'm a mother of two. My oldest JUST turned 3 Oct 23. I have 4 GSDs one of which being a 6 month old puppy and another being an 18 month old GSD who i'm working out her seperation issues and continuing the training she needs before she goes to my sister and her son who is normally fearful of ALL dogs but absolutely LOVES Shelby. our 6 year old male has other dog fear issues so he gets growly and barks at other dogs walking on the street when we're out. He was attacked repeatedly at a dog park on different days by a saint bernard when he was about 3 years old. When we adopted him at 6 months old, he was attacked by the great dane that lived down the hall from us when we lived in an apartment. Honestly, i dont blame him for being nervous around other dogs outside our home. We're working with him on it. Zena is an alpha personality female and she is same sex aggressive with other dogs. Its taken a few years to get her to realize she doesnt need to be a total brat and start fights. My husband is gone for days at a time because he's military and thats just the nature of his particular job. I also work around HIS schedule full time. The point i'm making is that no matter what you have going on, its possible to still work with a dog that has issues. Shelby is doing very well with her seperation issues. She's no longer distructive to herself or the house when we leave. Riley doesnt totally spazz every single time he see's another dog. Zena is currently living with my inlaws for her health. Shasta is the best behaved 6 month old puppy in the neighborhood. It is very possible to work with Moxie's issues and prevent her from escaping again but ONLY is the OP is willing to work with her. Its not only about time, its about the willingness to do so and honestly, without the willingness, whether you have the time or not doesnt matter.


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## shannonrae

jenedge24 said:


> Your right they are! I believe there are amazing people on this forum that have a lot to offer and I am not discounting them at all they have been real life savers and have great ideas!!! But... In some cases we need to remember there are people too not just dogs and making people feel bad does not make for a confident owner. before being so harsh in our replys we need to take a step back and either ask more questions to understand the situation better, or give more constructive critisism. What it comes down to is we're here to communicate and we all do it differently...but we shouldn't be unkind.


INDEED! :thumbup: I have a suspicion that some people come one here to criticizes others and make themselves feel better about their own "parenting" skills.
Not necessarily anyone on this particular thread. 
But, there are some members who repeatedly make negative, condescending posts. No matter what the problem nobody knows more than they do! I have said it before and I will say it again, being rude gets you nowhere in educating other pet owners!


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## Stogey

shannonrae said:


> INDEED! :thumbup: I have a suspicion that some people come one here to criticizes others and make themselves feel better about their own "parenting" skills.
> Not necessarily anyone on this particular thread.
> But, there are some members who repeatedly make negative, condescending posts. No matter what the problem nobody knows more than they do! I have said it before and I will say it again, being rude gets you nowhere in educating other pet owners!


I have to agree with Shannon ! I've seen the criticism by certain posters and I'm sure they meant well, actually looking out for the best interest of the animal, but again the condescending attitude is not needed. I have and will continue to report such "put down" posters to the moderators. Some people need to realize that not all of us are "expert" handlers and are here to learn and socialize with the folks who are ! So lighten up ! 

And that's just my Dos Centavos !


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## GSDElsa

Stogey said:


> I have to agree with Shannon ! I've seen the criticism by certain posters and I'm sure they meant well, actually looking out for the best interest of the animal, but again the condescending attitude is not needed. I have and will continue to report such "put down" posters to the moderators. Some people need to realize that not all of us are "expert" handlers and are here to learn and socialize with the folks who are ! So lighten up !
> 
> And that's just my Dos Centavos !


 
Why are you reporting those posts? They are not breaking any forum rules and you are just giving the mods more useless work. WHether you like the tone or not, a post isn't going to be removed if it is not violating any rules.


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## LaRen616

GSDElsa said:


> Why are you reporting those posts? They are not breaking any forum rules and you are just giving the mods more useless work. WHether you like the tone or not, a post isn't going to be removed if it is not violating any rules.


:thumbup:


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## Scotty

Thank you everyone, I felt very put down earlier in this thread by a certain truck driver / writer and that gives me a negative view of this mesageboard however that won't prevent me from doing the right thing for Moxie. I refuse to give her to anyone who won't take proper care of her and that's why I'm here. I appreciate the input I am getting here on her behalf. I think that a big part of being a responsible adult is admitting when you are overwhelmed and seeking help to correct it so that is what I am doing.

I have to add that my male shepherd is EXTREMELY ralaxed and seems to need nothing yet the polar opposite is Moxie who is very active and needs tons of attention that I am unable to give for her. I was really lucky that no one was hurt when they both got lose and I'm not going to risk it again. We'll see what happens but while I find a home for Moxie I will work on her behavior and dominance issues and maybe we can keep her !


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

No, it's fine to report posts that people think are questionable. If there is a trend over time of the same person getting reported by different people, it may be time to look at that person who is always walking the line of acceptable posts. 

The idea is that the moderators can't read all the posts, so there may be a hum-dinger of a poopstorm happening and we won't know it without the notifications.


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## Stogey

GSDElsa said:


> Why are you reporting those posts? They are not breaking any forum rules and you are just giving the mods more useless work. WHether you like the tone or not, a post isn't going to be removed if it is not violating any rules.


I'll just tell you as my Grandaddy used to tell me " If ya ain't got nothing good to say, keep your trap shut ... I will continue to report abusive posters whether it's in your mind a waste of micro-bits or not !!!


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## lish91883

I was amazed when I started reading the thread and so many people applauded this person’s decision and respected them for making such a “tough” decision. When I read Doggiedad’s post I wanted to stand up and cheer. 
It would be one thing if the OP had said that they had tried everything, including training & even more exercise, but it was just not working. Then re-homing would be more understandable & probably wouldn’t have received the snarly responses that it did (and deserved). It doesn’t sound like the decision was too “tough”, but the easiest way out with the least amount of work.


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## LaRen616

lish91883 said:


> I was amazed when I started reading the thread and so many people applauded this person’s decision and respected them for making such a “tough” decision. When I read Doggiedad’s post I wanted to stand up and cheer.
> It would be one thing if the OP had said that they had tried everything, including training & even more exercise, but it was just not working. Then re-homing would be more understandable & probably wouldn’t have received the snarly responses that it did (and deserved). It doesn’t sound like the decision was too “tough”, but the easiest way out with the least amount of work.


I will stand up and cheer for you! 

I agree :thumbup:


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## Betty

Scotty said:


> Thank you everyone, I felt very put down earlier in this thread by a certain truck driver / writer and that gives me a negative view of this mesageboard however that won't prevent me from doing the right thing for Moxie. I refuse to give her to anyone who won't take proper care of her and that's why I'm here. I appreciate the input I am getting here on her behalf. I think that a big part of being a responsible adult is admitting when you are overwhelmed and seeking help to correct it so that is what I am doing.
> 
> I have to add that my male shepherd is EXTREMELY ralaxed and seems to need nothing yet the polar opposite is Moxie who is very active and needs tons of attention that I am unable to give for her. I was really lucky that no one was hurt when they both got lose and I'm not going to risk it again. We'll see what happens but while I find a home for Moxie I will work on her behavior and dominance issues and maybe we can keep her !


If you are still looking to rehome her contact a rescue (there are plenty on this board) and ask for assistance in learning how to screen homes. Since she was returned in less then 24 hours I think it's obvious that you need help in this area.

When I place a pup or a dog, I look at it as I have one chance to do it right, and how well I do that job will make all the difference in the world to the dog in question. It can literally be the difference between life and death. 

I have also found that dominance is often a mis-used term, kind of one of the internet training buzz words. What people often call dominance is often just a lack of training. I would strongly suggest that you look into a group ob class and even see about putting a CGC on her. It will help greatly in rehoming her.

Find out how your dogs escaped and fix it.

Most importantly put on your big boy pants, put your hurt feelings aside and put Moxie's well being first and tap into the resources available on this board.

And if someone wants to report this post, go for it. Just look at the rescue section first and try and figure out how many of those dogs ended up there because the original owner decided that they did not have the time for the dog.

I think it was asked but I don't recall seeing an answer, have you contacted her breeder?


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## Jax08

I think we need to put the violins away and get back to the issue at hand. 

There is a dog that needs to be rehomed. Not everyone can handle more than one dog, a higher energy dog, a problem dog, etc. Some just don't have the skills and knowledge.

So...start by contacting rescues. At the very least, if there are no foster homes available, ask if they can do a courtesy post for you to get her on Petfinder. Second, offer to foster her until a new home can be found. 

Third, do a very honest assessment of her. You know she is bossy towards other dogs. So she will either need to go to a home with a submissive MALE dog or a home without any other dogs. The new owners will need to be committed to training and working her. Screen these new homes very carefully. Do vet reference checks, training checks, personal reference checks and a home visit!

How about contacting local SchH clubs or obedience clubs? You might find knowledgeable people there that would be a fit for her.

At this point, as you want to rehome her and feel over your head, this is really about management for you. Jean gave you great advice. There was also a post about stimulating her mentally. You can do this in just every day tasks. Everything she does, ask her to do something. Spend 10-15 minutes teaching her a new trick. Find a more physically demanding exercise for the hour that you are exercising her. Can you take her swimming? Play frisbee?

Look up NILIF (Nothing In Life is Free) and practice it! It really sounds like she needs a job. You know how ppl get when they have to much time on their hands! Same philosophy here!


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## DJEtzel

Scotty said:


> Thank you everyone, I felt very put down earlier in this thread by a certain truck driver / writer and that gives me a negative view of this mesageboard however that won't prevent me from doing the right thing for Moxie. I refuse to give her to anyone who won't take proper care of her and that's why I'm here. I appreciate the input I am getting here on her behalf. I think that a big part of being a responsible adult is admitting when you are overwhelmed and seeking help to correct it so that is what I am doing.
> 
> I have to add that my male shepherd is EXTREMELY ralaxed and seems to need nothing yet the polar opposite is Moxie who is very active and needs tons of attention that I am unable to give for her. I was really lucky that no one was hurt when they both got lose and I'm not going to risk it again. We'll see what happens but while I find a home for Moxie I will work on her behavior and dominance issues and maybe we can keep her !


Why can't you be proactive and watch the dogs like you should be doing and work to keep Moxie? I agree with the post below; it seems like you just want a dog that you don't need to do anything with- what's the point of having one at all?

Train her not to run out of the gate, fix the fence, supervise your dogs while they're outside. Train them both seperately, and actually exercise them. It's not that hard to wake up an hour earlier, stay up an hour later, and run the dog or play hardcore fetch in the backyard. There are also hundreds of ways to exercise them physically and mentally while inside. Your kid's sitting in the high chair eating breakfast? Grab some of her cheerios and work with Moxie on some training inside. I'm a college student with a part-time job and I can make it work with multiple pets. Having kids and another dog is not a valid excuse. Dogs take work, and I don't think this is something that can't be worked through rather than just giving up and taking the easy way out. You won't gain any respect in the dog world by doing that. 



lish91883 said:


> I was amazed when I started reading the thread and so many people applauded this person’s decision and respected them for making such a “tough” decision. When I read Doggiedad’s post I wanted to stand up and cheer.
> It would be one thing if the OP had said that they had tried everything, including training & even more exercise, but it was just not working. Then re-homing would be more understandable & probably wouldn’t have received the snarly responses that it did (and deserved). It doesn’t sound like the decision was too “tough”, but the easiest way out with the least amount of work.


 
I agree completely. Rehoming a pet for no reason is not an applaudable move, imo. Had the OP come here saying, "help, I feel like rehoming my dog because she's causing this issue, that issue, and another, please tell me how to fix it", she would have met a lot more support than she did. We aren't being particularly negative, we're being realistic and honest.

Honestly though, I don't think you're in the position to own her and should rehome her to a rescue or shelter as soon as you can. You're doing her an unjustice keeping her if you aren't willing to work with her and give her what she needs.


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## HeidiW

I am sorry your having problems good luck the best to your Moxie. I have two and my female has way more energy than my male, could you be mistaken her snarling for rough play?


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## Lilie

You can also consider other forms of exercise. I've been known to sit at one end of my hallway (lap top on my lap) working, while rolling the ball down the hall...over and over and over and over....until my GSD is finally tired. You might have to get creative, but not all excersise has to be outside. If the walk / training doesn't tucker them out, try something new. Hide and seek is one of our favorite things to play in the house, and it's entertaining for the entire family!


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## CaliBoy

While I think it is admirable that Scotty can admit he's overwhelmed and needs to find a new home for Moxie, this thread should be archived and cited for future use. People often come around and ask whether they should get a German Shepherd, and it would be very kind to let them know, "Please read this thread."

What I learn more and more is that some people who go looking for a pet should be thanked, no, even more, they should get a trophy, for the decision NOT to get a GSD. These dogs require so much care and attention that it is just cruel to go out and get one when you are not prepared to make a total, all out commitment.

Almost 20 years ago, I almost gave my first GSD away because I was freaking out about his energy, destructiveness, being willful, you name it. An older neighbor who I regarded like a father sat me down for what I thought was tender advice. He smacked me up my silly head and kicked my arse so sore--verbally, not physically, and basically said, "find your balls and man up. You made a commitment, and that animal now depends on you. It's not like giving away some old sneakers--and now that he is a problem, you have no right to pass on to someone else your problem child. Go back home, educate yourself on training him, break a sweat if you have to in order to fix your fence and keep him secure. If you won't make the extra effort it takes, you are absolutely unfit to ever have a dog and I for one will think less of you, no matter if that hurts your feelings."

That idiot slapping he gave me was hurtful, but you know what? It was what I need to make it through that hump of frustration, so I kept the dog and we later turned a corner. Then, I learned what it meant to truly love and be true to my word and commitments. Funny how dogs teach us how to be human.

So I hope Scotty can find a home for Moxie, but I agree that my first gut reaction is not to ooze with sympathy when someone comes around and says, "i'm rehoming the dog." This thread gives a lot of food for thought for future potential owners of German Shepherds.


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## KZoppa

CaliBoy said:


> While I think it is admirable that Scotty can admit he's overwhelmed and needs to find a new home for Moxie, this thread should be archived and cited for future use. People often come around and ask whether they should get a German Shepherd, and it would be very kind to let them know, "Please read this thread."
> 
> What I learn more and more is that some people who go looking for a pet should be thanked, no, even more, they should get a trophy, for the decision NOT to get a GSD. These dogs require so much care and attention that it is just cruel to go out and get one when you are not prepared to make a total, all out commitment.
> 
> Almost 20 years ago, I almost gave my first GSD away because I was freaking out about his energy, destructiveness, being willful, you name it. An older neighbor who I regarded like a father sat me down for what I thought was tender advice. He smacked me up my silly head and kicked my arse so sore--verbally, not physically, and basically said, "find your balls and man up. You made a commitment, and that animal now depends on you. It's not like giving away some old sneakers--and now that he is a problem, you have no right to pass on to someone else your problem child. Go back home, educate yourself on training him, break a sweat if you have to in order to fix your fence and keep him secure. If you won't make the extra effort it takes, you are absolutely unfit to ever have a dog and I for one will think less of you, no matter if that hurts your feelings."
> 
> That idiot slapping he gave me was hurtful, but you know what? It was what I need to make it through that hump of frustration, so I kept the dog and we later turned a corner. Then, I learned what it meant to truly love and be true to my word and commitments. Funny how dogs teach us how to be human.
> 
> So I hope Scotty can find a home for Moxie, *but I agree that my first gut reaction is not to ooze with sympathy when someone comes around and says, "i'm rehoming the dog."* This thread gives a lot of food for thought for future potential owners of German Shepherds.


well said.


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## selzer

Anyone who wants to talk about how some people -- not necessarily in this thread -- have such and such a tone, should start another thread about that and not confuse this one. 

The reason I posted was because I thought people were being pretty harsh to the OP. 

If the guy drove the dog 300 miles away and dumped her on the side of the road, and then came to tell us about it, flame away I will provide flame throwers.

If the guy was contemplating dropping the dog at the local pound or shelter, again beat him with whatever stick you can find, embarrass, humiliate, fine. 

But there is NOTHING wrong with rehoming a dog that is not working out for your situation, not if you do it right, and try to ensure the dog has a good home. 

We, who post regularly, are not ordinary dog owners, some of us are breeders, some of us are deep into dog sports, some of us let our lives revolve around our dogs, some of us let our lives revolve around dog rescuing. 

Honestly, before I found this forum, I had NEVER heard of a dog rescue anything. I only new about the APL pound in the county and that most counties have some type of pound.

I knew about dog classes, but thought that taking a dog to obedience classes meant once a week for six or eight weeks, and then you have a perfect dog -- it actually was the case with Arwen. But most dogs, training is ongoing, and most people really do not realize that. 

Lots of people have a higher energy dog, and look for answers, and get advice to get another dog to help the dog burn off energy. Two is better than one, two are easier, etc, etc. Just because this guy did not have the information people here are spewing does not mean that he did not seek help prior and got bad information.

I thank all the people that are pointing this guy to various rescue organizations. Some of them might be willing to give him some tools to help this dog in the mean time. Some might be able to suggest trainers and management techniques. 

I find it a lot better that someone realizes they are over their head and tries to do SOMETHING to rectify the problem -- find a GSD owner who knows the breed to take the dog. The alternative is to wait until the dog actually does bite someone and then has to be euthanized.

Maybe this guy has not done all the right things in your opinions, before seeking to rehome the dog. Not everyone gets an owner's manual with their puppy. 
Not everyone knows all of the various steps they should take prior to the ultimate rehome or euthanasia. 

Lastly, the guy has a baby and possibly another on the way. One of my previous supervisors euthanized all of his cats when his wife was pregnant. I think that if he can find a good home for the one that is the most trouble, that too might be a step in the right direction. He probably is thinking that with two babies, he is not going to have the time that this pup needs. It is NOT a good excuse to drop the dog at a pound/shelter, but to work with a rescue to find a suitable home, I think it is.

I also agree with contacting the breeder.


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## vat

I also agree, everyone has a breaking point and the OP has reached his. Better to realize his mistake and try to make it right by the dog than dumping her. We are all human and we all make mistakes, it takes a big person to admit it.

Contact the breeder if you can, contact local rescues. See if someone with more knowledge can come test her, she may not be as dominate as you think. In the mean time work with her as much as possible and be careful of possible future homes. Good luck.


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## Rerun

I think this is probably one of the most rude threads I've ever read on this forum.

Some people like to pretend their full time job is exercising and caring for their dog. German shepherds are fantastic family pets and depending on the dog it may be a couch potatoe or it may require 3 hrs of hard exercise and training a day to stay sane. The OP got in over her head from the sound of things and did right by the dog trying to find a home for it.

Either the home wasn't screened enough or the people lied about their experience (it happens - even rescues have dogs returned!). Regardless of the reasons, the OP took back the dog and is asking for advice/help on what to do to help things be better while she continues to search for a better home for the dog.

Is it sad when the dog has to find a new home? Sure it is. Is it for the best, in the end? Yes.


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## selzer

A lot of police dogs are handed off from trainer to handler several times before they are finally sold to a department. 

Breeding dogs are often kept for a number of years and then retired and rehomed or sold whatever you want to call it. 

Many dogs are held back by breeders until they are older and go to their first home when they are older puppies or young adults. 

Many breeders or serious sport people or working dog people purchase a green dog or a dog fully trained. Often an adult so they know what they are getting. 

A dog that lives in another household for 24 hours is not worse than a dog that spends 5-7 days in a kennel while the family is on vacation.

I agree that this thread has been rude. One would think that a dog that goes from one home to another no longer has a chance at a good life. I would think rescue people would be all over that idea like flies on poopie. 

The fact of the matter is, if a dog IS a poor match to a family, the worst possible thing to happen in many cases is for that dog NOT to be rehomed. High strung, high energy dogs, might be relegated to a chain in the back yard, because the people couldn't possibly get rid of her. How would this be better?


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## Ruthie

Scotty said:


> Thank you everyone, I felt very put down earlier in this thread by a certain truck driver / writer and that gives me a negative view of this mesageboard however that won't prevent me from doing the right thing for Moxie. I refuse to give her to anyone who won't take proper care of her and that's why I'm here. I appreciate the input I am getting here on her behalf. I think that a big part of being a responsible adult is admitting when you are overwhelmed and seeking help to correct it so that is what I am doing.
> 
> I have to add that my male shepherd is EXTREMELY ralaxed and seems to need nothing yet the polar opposite is Moxie who is very active and needs tons of attention that I am unable to give for her. I was really lucky that no one was hurt when they both got lose and I'm not going to risk it again. We'll see what happens but while I find a home for Moxie I will work on her behavior and dominance issues and maybe we can keep her !


It sounds like you just *want* to do the right thing. Many people here including myself are passionate about the welfare of dogs. Many who are involved in rescues have seen some horrible things and I am afraid that may prevent them from being patient with a new dog owner. Just keep that in mind when reading some of these posts. They want what is best for Moxie.

I have been were you are, a new dog owner. I remember being completely overwhelmed with my first dog. I made a lot of mistakes. So, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just trying to figure this all out.

You are facing one of those turning point moments. You need to decide if you are going to dig in and make it work or are you going to find a wonderful forever home for her.

You said that you love GSDs, but the ARE a high energy and dominant breed. Those are things that you are going to need to get experience with. Should you decide to keep Moxie, you are going to need to commit to loving her for who she is and giving her the time and attention that she needs. You will need to find a good trainer that has experience with high drive dogs that can help you provide a good home for her.

Another thing to consider is the issue may not be just exercise. GSD's are very smart and they need a job to do. Providing mental stimulation can go a long way. 10 minutes of obedience training settles my dog more than a mile walk.


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## shannonrae

Dogs are a lifetime commitment. I do not think the re homing of a dog should be taken lightly and I do believe it can result in damage to the dog, I also understand that sometimes it just cannot work. Even though I have never been in a situation where I had to re home a pet, I get it. 

In a situation like this the owner/family is unhappy and the dog is unhappy. It is better for everyone involved to find Moxie a home where she will get what she needs. 
Please be careful about re homing your dog. You could use a rescue as others suggested. If you decide to find a home for her yourself ask for veterinary references and follow up on them. Actually call the clinics/offices yourself, most businesses wont have a problem with this. Make sure she is spayed and up to date on vaccinations and heartworm test. Be completely and utterly honest with potential owners or rescues. 

Please keep in mind that *EVERY* pet owner has made a mistake. No matter what they want you to think. I have a long list myself!


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## shannonrae

selzer said:


> Anyone who wants to talk about how some people -- not necessarily in this thread -- have such and such a tone, should start another thread about that and not confuse this one.
> 
> The reason I posted was because I thought people were being pretty harsh to the OP.


I apologize, I was just thinking that if the OP could get some encouragement then maybe he/she would feel better about the decision he/she is making. Which is difficult for everyone involved (none more so than the dog). It is just infuriating to me when people jump all over others for decisions they make when I know darn well that every person that is putting the original poster down has made a mistake too at some point.

I am not entirely clear why the hackles are coming up. I meant it as a generalization people do not absorb useful info if it is presented in a negative way.


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## selzer

I think that we are agreeing for the most part. I just get way too confused when people start discussing things in general, even if they are not in this thread. 

We all have made mistakes with dogs. 

My first dog was a dominant, drop-eared, super high energy, aggressive, working line/byb line, bi-color that I purchased at ten weeks old for $150 from a guy who had the dogs living up under a car in his driveway. He was the only one that came to me. I proceded to turn him into an untrained, unpredictable, neurotic beast of a dog. 

I learned more about dogs from that dog than any other though.

After seven years with Frodo, a kennel of dogs are a piece of cake.

Had I rehomed him, I probably would never have gotten another GSD, as I would have based my perception of the breed on my experience with him.


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## KZoppa

i admit i've screwed up with my dogs. everyone makes mistakes. Riley was not socialized properly but my mistake was allowing my boyfriend/now husband to get away with that while i was at college. Riley could be such a totally fabulous dog if he'd been properly socialized and not allowed to get away with certain things but he also spent time living with my inlaws because of an apartment conflict after they lost our pet deposit and even presenting the proof it had been paid. My inlaws are great people but are perfectly fine having ill trained and just generally bad dogs in the house. everyone makes mistakes but i didnt rehome Riley simply because his training had been lacking when i was finally able to work with him. He was a massively unruly dog too.


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## DJEtzel

I can honestly say I haven't made a mistake with my dog yet.


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## selzer

That's because you do not have it yet.


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## shannonrae

DJEtzel said:


> I can honestly say I haven't made a mistake with my dog yet.


Then you are a commendable young man, whose example we should all follow.


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## DJEtzel

selzer said:


> That's because you do not have it yet.


 Elaborate?



shannonrae said:


> Then you are a commendable young man, whose example we should all follow.


Woman.


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## shannonrae

DJEtzel said:


> Elaborate?
> 
> 
> 
> Woman.


OOPs very sorry.  . . .


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## selzer

Sorry, I thought you were the individual who was on here gaining knowledge prior to purchasing their GSD puppy. I guess you are someone else.


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## DJEtzel

shannonrae said:


> OOPs very sorry.  . . .


Haha, no problem.


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## DJEtzel

selzer said:


> Sorry, I thought you were the individual who was on here gaining knowledge prior to purchasing their GSD puppy. I guess you are someone else.


Yeah... not me.


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## sagelfn

Hate to knock you off your high horse but you did purchase from a BYB. That counts as a mistake


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## shannonrae

Just for the record . . . I did not mean specifically the mistake in question. Any mistake, an error in judgement is an error in judgement. Lapsed vaccines, choosing a vet that didn't work out, not using proper deworming protocol, training error to not even scratch the surface. 
The thing about mistakes is, you may not know you are making one until someone who knows better points it out, hopefully without making you feel like an idiot. There is always someone out there that knows more than you (or me) about any particular topic.


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## DJEtzel

sagelfn said:


> Hate to knock you off your high horse but you did purchase from a BYB. That counts as a mistake


I wouldn't call that a mistake. It hasn't affected him for the worse, and I was unaware of them being a byb when we got him. If that's a mistake, it's the best one I ever made. 

Hate to knock you off your high horse, but your well-bred dog is no better than mine.


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## Ruthie

DJEtzel said:


> I can honestly say I haven't made a mistake with my dog yet.


I love your youthful enthusiasm, but Frag is only a year old. It might be a little early to be boasting that.


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## DJEtzel

Ruthie said:


> I love your youthful enthusiasm, but Frag is only a year old. It might be a little early to be boasting that.


Yep. Key word being "yet." Still accurate, as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully being optimistic helps.


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## sagelfn

DJEtzel said:


> I wouldn't call that a mistake. It hasn't affected him for the worse, and I was unaware of them being a byb when we got him. If that's a mistake, it's the best one I ever made.
> 
> Hate to knock you off your high horse, but your well-bred dog is no better than mine.


Sage isn't well bred. I have no problem admitting his flaws or mine as a first time dog owner. While I've tried my best to do everything exactly right I'm inexperienced. I know I've made mistakes even if they weren't big ones. Even someone with years of experience probably makes a training mistake here and there. Nothing wrong with that. To say you've never made a mistake is simply untrue. Humans are not perfect. Being in denial of that simply puts you at risk for more mistakes and bigger ones.


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## Ruthie

DJEtzel said:


> Yep. Key word being "yet." Still accurate, as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully being optimistic helps.


Yes, optimism is good. 

But, my experience has been that you don't even know that you made the mistake until down the road. The more you learn, the more you realize that you screwed it up before. I am not saying that you are a screw up, but I would bet money that in 5 years you will look back and say, "Yep, I made mistakes with Frag that I won't make with my next dog."


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## DJEtzel

sagelfn said:


> Sage isn't well bred. I have no problem admitting his flaws or mine as a first time dog owner. While I've tried my best to do everything exactly right I'm inexperienced. I know I've made mistakes even if they weren't big ones. Even someone with years of experience probably makes a training mistake here and there. Nothing wrong with that. To say you've never made a mistake is simply untrue. Humans are not perfect. Being in denial of that simply puts you at risk for more mistakes and bigger ones.


 
Be that as it may or may not be, I've got something to prove here, and it makes me that much more determined not to mess up. I'm not in denial of messing up, I just don't think I have yet. There's no logical reason why that would make me make more mistakes. That's just euphamism at work. I can be in denial all I want and it will not increase my mistake making chances.


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## DJEtzel

Ruthie said:


> Yes, optimism is good.
> 
> But, my experience has been that you don't even know that you made the mistake until down the road. The more you learn, the more you realize that you screwed it up before. I am not saying that you are a screw up, but I would bet money that in 5 years you will look back and say, "Yep, I made mistakes with Frag that I won't make with my next dog."


Oh yes, I'm sure that will happen. There's already things I've found I would do differently, but not because I did it wrong to begin with; just easier ways to do things. I'm not being egotistical and I'm not doubting I'll make mistakes in the future. I'm just glad that I haven't yet.


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## Ruthie

DJEtzel said:


> Oh yes, I'm sure that will happen. There's already things I've found I would do differently, but not because I did it wrong to begin with; just easier ways to do things. I'm not being egotistical and I'm not doubting I'll make mistakes in the future. I'm just glad that I haven't yet.


Well... good for you. You are certainly a better dog owner than I.

I guess that explains why you aren't very patient with someone who has made mistakes. Maybe in a few years when you look back you will have more compassion for people like the OP and try to help him be a better dog owner rather than being a little harsh like you were with him.


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## DJEtzel

Ruthie said:


> Well... good for you. You are certainly a better dog owner than I.
> 
> I guess that explains why you aren't very patient with someone who has made mistakes. Maybe in a few years when you look back you will have more compassion for people like the OP and try to help him be a better dog owner rather than being a little harsh like you were with him.


That would make sense, and it's entirely possible.


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## JakodaCD OA

while I personally, have never rehomed a dog, (i'm a foster failure, and believe in lifetime committment) I do commend Scotty for not dumping her on the side of the road somewhere or a shelter.

We ALL make mistakes, whether we know it or not. No one is perfect as is no dog is perfect.

I do agree, Scotty, check out local rescues, what about her breeder? Ask your vet. Many times vet clients are looking for a dog. I also agree, screen potential adopters thoroughly, you want not only a good home, but a committed home. 

In the meantime, Take some obedience classes!!!! This can also help placing her if she's an unruly girl. 

While some may not agree with Scotty , does anyone think bashing them will make them feel any better?


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## LaRen616

DJEtzel said:


> I wouldn't call that a mistake. It hasn't affected him for the worse, and I was unaware of them being a byb when we got him. If that's a mistake, it's the best one I ever made.
> 
> Hate to knock you off your high horse, but your well-bred dog is no better than mine.


:lurking:

My GSD is a byb dog, if he is a mistake then he is the best **** mistake I have ever made.


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## KZoppa

LaRen616 said:


> :lurking:
> 
> *My GSD is a byb dog, if he is a mistake then he is the best **** mistake I have ever made*.


 
right there with you!!! Shasta is my awesome girl.


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## LaRen616

KZoppa said:


> right there with you!!! Shasta is my awesome girl.


If I could do it all over again I would buy from that BYB again. Sinister is a wonderful dog, all of my friends and family love him, he has a great personality and he is very smart. He is the mascot at my mom's hair salon, everyone knows him and they always ask about him.


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## Lilie

If the breeder I got Hondo from doesn't have a web site, does that make her a byb? I don't think so. 

In all my years, I've rehomed one dog. We never clicked and it was unfair to the dog. I believe in a life time commitment to my dogs as well. And I was committed to make sure this dog had a great life. Re-homing it was the best way to acheive that commitment. 

To the OP: I agree that you should let your vet know that you are looking for a great home for your GSD. All of my 'little' rescue dogs have come from the vet. All had various problems, but I loved them each. Your vet would know which clients can 'handle' a GSD and which can not.


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## Castlemaid

LaRen616 said:


> If I could do it all over again I would buy from that BYB again. Sinister is a wonderful dog, all of my friends and family love him, he has a great personality and he is very smart. He is the mascot at my mom's hair salon, everyone knows him and they always ask about him.


But why buy? You can get just as awesome a dog from a shelter or a rescue - AND you are NOT supporting the BYB's whose dogs end up in shelters or rescues anyways!


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## LaRen616

Castlemaid said:


> But why buy? You can get just as awesome a dog from a shelter or a rescue - AND you are NOT supporting the BYB's whose dogs end up in shelters or rescues anyways!


What I meant when I said "if I could do it all over again I would buy from that BYB again" I meant that now that I have had him I wouldn't change it for the world even if I could go back and fix it, I already know him and I love everything about him. He is everything that I was looking for in a dog. 

In the future though when I am ready to bring in another GSD if I decide to get a puppy I will be buying from a reputible breeder but if I choose to go for a older puppy or an adult dog I will go through rescue.


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## shannonrae

I have been in the animal health field for a long time, and attend years of college to acquire my education on animal behavior and health. When you have any animal health (and to some degree behavior) related questions chances are it is someone with my "credentials" you ask for answers.
I am quite positive regardless of my "education" and "credentials" there are some people out there who may still disagree with my opinions and methods, even though many pay good money for them every day. One of the most important parts of my job is maintaining and OPEN MIND to the opinions of others, and admitting to the errors I have made (trust me I have made a few, as have the dog "experts" I work with every day). I have learned many things from "clients" and the people on this board. That includes the mistakes made by people on this board. As well as, the useful tips (Thanks guys!)
If I do not acknowledge my errors I cannot possibly hope fix them. By having a "I have all the answers" attitude or "I am right, no questions asked" mentality nobody, least of all the dog will benefit. So please keep an open mind, for your own benefit as well as that of your pet. Trust me mistakes WILL happen! Is part of owning a pet, if you never make a mistake during the life of your pet you are doing something wrong! I am not sure buying from a BYB qualifies if you are truly happy with your decision!


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## Jax08

Does anyone remember the OP asking for help? Just curious..if Scotty hasn't left the building then perhaps he needs to start a new thread to get the help he needs since this thread of his has gone wayyyyy off track.


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## Zisso

After reading thru this thread, I remember why I rarely come here and why I found other places to get advice and share my happy stories too. All I can say is WOW people!


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## Bridget

Wow. Sometimes rehoming can be the kindest thing you can do. You made a wise decision and did the right thing.


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## selzer

As for not making mistakes. It is not something to be proud of. We LEARN from our mistakes and failures. What have we LEARNED from a smooth ride???

And as for doing things differently with the next dog. Well, THAT might be a mistake. Dogs have different personalities and different learning styles just like humans. What might have worked better for this pup, might totally backfire on the next pup. Again, the learning from experience and learning from mistakes come in. There is not much experience in the smooth road with no distractions. 

I think that you cannot become a truly excellent owner, trainer, or breeder without some mistakes that you have to work through. 

So while you believe you haven't made any mistakes, I really hope it isn't true. Mistakes build character in us at least. 

And any dog that is not able to overcome some mistakes is genetically flawed. 

I hope you lighten up and relax and enjoy your pup without being so concerned about doing everything 100% perfect.


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## Mac's Mom

LaRen616 said:


> What I meant when I said "if I could do it all over again I would buy from that BYB again" I meant that now that I have had him I wouldn't change it for the world even if I could go back and fix it, I already know him and I love everything about him. He is everything that I was looking for in a dog.
> 
> In the future though when I am ready to bring in another GSD if I decide to get a puppy I will be buying from a reputible breeder but if I choose to go for a older puppy or an adult dog I will go through rescue.


I feel the same way.


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## GSD07

It means that you both did learn from your mistakes


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## Mac's Mom

Scotty said:


> ... We'll see what happens but while I find a home for Moxie I will work on her behavior and dominance issues and maybe we can keep her !


Scotty, I think thats a great idea. Maybe you can keep her or at least give her a better chance for a permanent home. 

I can tell you that by taking charge and creating structure for Mac I completely turned things around for us. A few weeks ago I was at the end of the rope...literally sobbing I was so exhausted. And worst of all I knew I was failing Mac. I took some great advice from some cool people and within a week I saw a difference. My husband even comments how much better Mac is behaving. I took charge and set a schedule. I don't know if it will be that easy for you but my point is that there is hope for change. Good luck and take care.


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## Scotty

Update : Moxie's doing great ! I give her double the exercise as my other shepherd and that has worked out a lot of her behavior issues. I'm keeping her and investing the proper time into keeping her happy and inline. Thank you to all who gave me advise ; learning is a difficult, time consuming, frustrating process that can be insulting at times but will be great in the end. Thank you all (except the truck driver/writer) and I'll be lurking around here learning more.


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## liv

Way to go!! And thanks for the update - I am glad to hear that things are going so much better for you both! Please feel free to ask questions - I know this tread went kind of crazy, and was at times more than a little nasty, but there are lots of people here that will be able to answer questions, if you have them. Wishing you all the best with your dogs!


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## Whiteshepherds

Scotty said:


> Update : Moxie's doing great ! I give her double the exercise as my other shepherd and that has worked out a lot of her behavior issues.


 I don't think you're the first person who's underestimated how much exercise some of these dogs need or what can happen when they don't get it.  I'm glad to hear it's working out for you and Moxie.


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## vat

Scotty said:


> Update : Moxie's doing great ! I give her double the exercise as my other shepherd and that has worked out a lot of her behavior issues. I'm keeping her and investing the proper time into keeping her happy and inline. Thank you to all who gave me advise ; learning is a difficult, time consuming, frustrating process that can be insulting at times but will be great in the end. Thank you all (except the truck driver/writer) and I'll be lurking around here learning more.


Happy to hear the good news! You have to take what some on this forum say with a grain of salt. Most are very nice and very willing to help. Keep us posted on your progress.


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## Scotty

Thanks Liv and Vat ! What a learning curve and I've still got my dogs. I can't believe their are people who drop their animals off at shelters instead of even try and rehome them much less try and work their problems out. My rehoming debacle was due to a few factors that I didn't mention : (1) wife fell and broke both her elbows so she couldn't lift anything for quite a few weeks, with a 7 month old baby thibgs get difficult, (2) We want another child and my wife didn't think she could handle 2 shepherds and 2 kids while I'm away working. She does now  (3) Don't let your dogs out of your sight, never unnattended so they don't get loose and frloick with kids that are scared of them. (4) your homeowners insurance usually covers dog related problems unless you have a pitbull then it won't (talked to my insurance agent. (5) exercise requirements vary widely from dog to dog, didn't realize that. (6) A tired dog is an obedient dog. 

Lessons learned. Going to go pet Moxie now !


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## bocron

Scotty, good for you. You're not at the finish line yet, but the race is the fun part anyway. 
Just curious, do you have a link to her pedigree? She looks like she comes from working lines (I'm judging from a Christmas pic, not totally scientific I know). Once again, I'm going to suggest a Schutzhund club for some additional assistance and as a venue for you to get out and learn with your dog. You don't have to do protection work (I'm making assumptions that may be incorrect in you area, but you can check), most clubs allow membership for people who want to get involved in the obedience and/or tracking only. We have 2 members in our club who are only coming to get a BH and that is great as far as we are concerned. They only come to training every other week or so (they live VERY far away) to get help when they need it and to get the dog some socialization and the like. Like you, the one guy has a young child(age 2) so has limited time but has found the trip here on occasion to be worth it's weight in gold.
Oh, and if you don't have one already, a crate is your friend. Sometimes a little down time also teaches the dog to settle.


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## BestK9GSD

jenedge24 said:


> After reading the responses on this post I have to say, I have a love hate relationship with this forum. People can be so kind and supportive and truly concerned and want to help or cheer on GSD owners, or they can just come on to critisize and belittle because someone may not be the "master" at training, breeding, etc. I'm sure I'm going to be targeted for saying this but really, they are dogs, they don't speak, and I don't care how good you are with a dog, they can't tell you everything they need. Trial and error! Crap, I'd hate to see what some of you say about my parenting skills!! fact is people like scotty and even myself put ourselves out here in a few paragraphs and let you into our world for a little advice or just knowing someone else out there loves there dog too. I seriously doubt anyone on this forum does things deliberatly to hurt others or their dogs. So instead of taking a few paragraphs of someones lives and beating them down with your snid comments maybe you should log off go take your dog out for a run then come back and give that person the benefit of the doubt that they want what's best for their dog and your ignorant comments leave them feeling really bad. This is a place where people should feel safe to ask for help and discuss issues related to their pets. When your rude and get on your K9 fever, to protect this species with every judgemental comment you have your not helping, your pushing people away from having a place to go to help BE BETTER PET OWNERS!!! Sorry Scotty and to everyone who is so great! I'm sorry for your situation with your dog, so sad and I'm sure you felt torn and horrible. I'm sure she will find a good home. I'd let her vet know your situation and maybe the police dept. A lot of police officers(or retired) obviously have worked with the breed and might be in a situation to take on a dog that needs the extra time!! GOOD LUCK, love her while you have her, which I'm sure you do!! again I am sorry for my 2 cents!


Well put -


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## codmaster

If you are "sorry for your 2 cents", why would you say it? if you really feel that way, then just say it, don't apologize for saying what you evidently think.


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## Stosh

Good job Scotty! Glad things are working out, you've certainly had a lot happen all at once but seem to be making great progress.


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## katieliz

good job so far scotty! glad it worked out for you and for moxie.


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## trudy

Here is my 2 cents, sign up for obedience classes, if they are super obedient already sign up for agility classes. Have your wife do the training. You watch the baby. If she will be home with the dogs she needs to have perfect control and something like agility is fun and burns energy and encourages they are watching her every body movement. If they aren't ready for agility do advanced obedience, not just one class each but maybe 10 each, when one ends start another, it won't be boring because you will start jumps retrieves, hand signals everything. You can sit and watch the classes and practice at home after the wife does her practices. 

If you think Moxie is dominant now remember age will hit your boy too. Make sure both are spayed/neutered, under great control, and you will soon find they are delightful family members who will be an asset when your baby and next child are out playing and they can be trusted as babysitters in the fenced yard when your wife needs to step inside for a few moments. 

For the sake of your 7 month old and your wife with 2 broken elbows, try post poning the next child for a few years, a 3 year span is a good span between siblings, the one is safely out of diapers, can communicate needs and wants and also enjoy the new member. Just a thought, I don't know your ages but assume you aren't forced to have several kids in a short time frame.


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## Scotty

Great input ! Thanks. We did a basic obedience class with Mox. and that went well. Agility class will happen ASAP. Great advice on the kids but my wifes biological clock is ticking at a deafening pace, surprised the dogs can still hear anything


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## Stosh

That's so funny- hey, skin babies are ultimately more important than the fur babies.


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## Kelly's Buddy

It's threads like this that are something to watch evolve. So many intentions, good, bad and indifferent. Attitudes and tone while might appear to some as unnecessary, in fact help shape and guide a person through a difficult time. There wasn't one part of this thread that wouldn't help someone and their dog in the future in some way. 

Best wishes for Moxie and her family.


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