# Scottsdale Man Arrested During House Fire Trying To Save His Dog



## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

I caught this on the news here and found an article to post here to get opinions:

Scottsdale homeowner detained during house fire, dog killed | Phoenix News | Arizona News | azfamily.com | Phoenix News


I understand he was disobeying orders, but you'd better believe if I knew my dogs were still inside my house, which was on fire, I'd be going crazy trying to get them if I didn't feel as though Firefighters were putting forth their best effort to save them. Heck, I'd tell them to forget the fire and get my dogs! Their lives are far more important to me than any material possessions I own, including the house itself. This man ended up losing one of his dogs, the other was found in a shed in the back. Of course they didn't want him going back in their for his safety, but he wanted to save his dogs. Sad. 

What would you guys have done?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I cannot read it. Fire terrifies me. 

I think that for me, as the nearest firehouse is five miles off, once they are there, I need to stay safe and not cause any of them to risk their lives moreso by my actions and keep them from doing their jobs. 

It is easy to say, but in the thick of things, who knows what I would do. 

I love my dogs. But I would rather lose the whole lot of them than have a fireman die because I did not listen. 

My dogs are my family. I have no kids. But the fireman has family too. People are more important.

ETA, in five minutes my house would be totally engulfed with nothing saveable. Any heroics for my dogs would have to happen before firemen arrive.


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

selzer said:


> I love my dogs. But I would rather lose the whole lot of them than have a fireman die because I did not listen.



I totally agree, human life takes precedence over canine (even though I'd like to think it should be the other way around sometimes), but if I flat out told a Firefighter to lay off the house for a bit because I cared more about my dog, I'd hope it would be respected. I understand they need to keep fighting the fire to keep it from potentially spreading to other homes, but I care more about my dog than the possessions in it, or the house itself. I'd rather they take a man away from the fire and send him in to grab my dog, you know? I don't know how they do things, I don't work for a Fire Department, but I would think that could be managed. If they agree to that, I won't fight like a madwoman to get back into the house and do it myself, and therefore won't be a liability and put other rescuers at risk.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I would go through anyone that got in my way to get back in my burning house for my dogs. They are my kids and nothing is more important to me than saving them.


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## Romeos Tune (Jun 18, 2010)

I would save my dog at all costs as I know he would do for me. I've only had him a couple weeks but I'm madly in love with him and he feels the same about me.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Elaine said:


> I would go through anyone that got in my way to get back in my burning house for my dogs. They are my kids and nothing is more important to me than saving them.


I agree. I can't imagine living without my dogs. They are my pride and joy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

But would you let someone else die for him?

If I go into my burning house to get my dog, that is me. But if I do it when there are firemen fighting the fire, they will have to go in and rescue me. They will have to risk their lives to rescue me. I could not risk other people's lives for my dogs. If they think it is safe enough to go after the dog, then that is fine. 

But as I say, my little match box would be pretty much gone, and they would probably be risking their lives for a very dead dog. 

My thing would be getting into my back yard to get the dogs there out so they would not be injured.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I don't value anyone more than my dogs. I'm not asking anyone to come in to get me. If they wouldn't go in for my dogs, then they shouldn't come in after me. I would still go in after my dogs no matter what.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Elaine,

It is probably not lawful for them to ignore that you went back into the building. They probably HAVE to go in after you. So your actions could cause one or more of them to die. 

I do not believe that is ok.


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

Wildly off topic, but I just realized I made a spelling error in my initial posting and it's bother the heck out of me. I used "their" instead of "there", I never do that, what the heck! This is really annoying me, I'm sorry...


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

My cousin is a firefighter.. and even if someone told him not to come in after them, he would.

I can't say what I would do. Gosh... the thought of my babies perishing in a fire is almost too much for me to beat...and that's just _thinking_ about it. *shudder* It's seriously one of my biggest fears: "What if my house starts on fire with my animals inside?"

I probably would have to be arrested to prevent me from running in after them, despite the fact that I logically know that it would be very, very wrong for me to put others' lives in danger.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

selzer said:


> It is probably not lawful for them to ignore that you went back into the building. They probably HAVE to go in after you. So your actions could cause one or more of them to die.
> 
> I do not believe that is ok.


Then if you don't want to go in, then don't. I will no matter what.

If this is a lawful problem, then it should be changed. If someone wants to risk themselves, that's their business. 

I will say that I have been to a lot of house fires and nothing made me more sick than hearing there were animals in the house. Some fire guys will go in for them and some won't. I always made sure I got my hands on the ones they got out to check them out and give any first aid I could.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

My dogs are my responsibility, my life, my pride. If I let them die, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If I let a human being die becuase of a foolhardy action of mine, I could not live with myself.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

i would never let my dogs die in a fire with out me doing all i can to get them out, have you ever seen thoughs signs? the ones that say "in case of fire save my _____" < list breed


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

if it is safe to go in, firefighters will. there have been many news stories about them saving pets from a fire. A civilian, however, doesn't have the gear and the knowledge to handle entering a burning building. You would most likely be signing your own death warrant with ZERO chance of saving your dogs. 

If you went in, they would HAVE to go after you. That would be risking their lives to save you when they could be fighting the fire and trying to save your pets. So, you would be dooming your pets a second time. When our furnace caught fire, believe me, the dogs, bunnies, and guinea pig were out of the house. I was freaking out because the baby chicks were still in the basement. The firemen open the crate and threw them out into the back yard. Took a bit to catch them later, but... I hadn't even said they were there and the small fire (thank god) had burned itself out, just leaving a ton of thick smoke. He put them outside because "birds are so sensitive, I didn't want to risk them"

The # 1 killer in a fire is smoke. The majority of people/pets who die are gone long before the fire gets to them. I have no idea how big the fire was or what type of building, so I'm not going to second-guess the experts. I will say that he probably wasted valuable time fighting to go in himself and could have prevented the firemen from saving his dog.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

If the fire was relatively contained and they didn't want to rescue my dog just as a precaution, I'd go in. If it was blazing and out of control, I wouldn't. I would want to rescue my birds too but they would die from smoke immediately.

I live pretty close to a firestation, so I would hope they could contain it pretty fast. I can see it from my house!


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

I'd have gone in and gotten him LONG before firefighters arrived, especially if my wife was with me so SHE could make the phone call to the fire department while I was getting Bear out. I might even make a grab for the cat, too.


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> if it is safe to go in, firefighters will. there have been many news stories about them saving pets from a fire. A civilian, however, doesn't have the gear and the knowledge to handle entering a burning building. You would most likely be signing your own death warrant with ZERO chance of saving your dogs.


Y'know, a thought came to mind: I wonder if the firefighters were working so hard to keep the civilian from going in after the dog, that they didn't have a chance to try and save him themselves? Hard to say... maybe the blaze was just out of control



DrDoom said:


> I'd have gone in and gotten him LONG before firefighters arrived, especially if my wife was with me so SHE could make the phone call to the fire department while I was getting Bear out. I might even make a grab for the cat, too.


I was thinking the same thing as I read the story!


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## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

selzer said:


> If I let a human being die becuase of a foolhardy action of mine, I could not live with myself.


if a grown adult CHOSE to follow me into a burning building... a building I went into to save my pet.... I dunno.. that's a tough one. 

I believe I'd do everything I physically could to save my pets. even if that meant someone CHOSE to follow me in to stop me.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Elaine said:


> I would go through anyone that got in my way to get back in my burning house for my dogs. They are my kids and nothing is more important to me than saving them.


I completely agree, I would do the exact same thing. My animals mean the world to me. I wouldn't even hesitate to go in and get them. I'd risk my life for them anyday. They are my family, they are my children, they are my best friends. If the Fireman follows me in then that's his choice. I'm going in and no one is going to stop me.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

As long as it was clear to me that I could actually get in and out of the house alive, I'd bolt past anyone to get my dog!! On the other hand, not if it was a suicide mission.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

If there was a good chance I could get my dogs out and myself, I would not hesitate. But I would not, as said, go on a suicide mission for my dogs. They mean the world to me, but my human family means more. 

However, YOU do not have that choice when firefighters arrive. It is their job to keep you out of the building, they won't even let you run in for humans if the fire is bad. 

My dogs are crated in my basement any time I'm not home, so they would not die - most likely - from being burnt to death, but smoke inhalation... Not as horrible as fire, but still bad... And if they were not there it would mean I'm home, and if I'm already in the house when a fire starts up, you bet I'm grabbing them and throwing them outside with me.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I've read about 3 stories in recent years about people drowning in the winter trying to save a dog that fell through the ice. More than one of those dogs survived, too.


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## fsklax31 (Jun 30, 2010)

selzer said:


> If I let a human being die becuase of a foolhardy action of mine, I could not live with myself.


I completely agree with you Selzer! You can get another Dog, but you can't bring back the firefighter. 

I would probably go in before they got there, but if they told me not to go back in then im not going back in. It would also depend on the size of the blaze. 

But i completely agree with you Selzer!


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## doreenf (Nov 7, 2007)

This is a hard one, I would try to get my dogs, but if another person died trying to save me I don't think I could live with that.


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## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

Being the daughter of a retired Firefighter, it truly saddens me to see the response of some people on this forum. I love my pets, I worked for a vet for 10 years, and then became a groomer. But in good conscience cannot not put an animals life in front of a humans. These are people with families, children. I understand that they put there lives in peril, it is part of there job. But, to knowingly go back into an inferno and to purposely put more human lives in danger (firefighters do not go in by themselves, they go with two or more men, but never alone), is being ignorant. In my eyes, people who choose to do that is no hero, they are attempted murderers.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

bunchoberrys said:


> Being the daughter of a retired Firefighter, it truly saddens me to see the response of some people on this forum. I love my pets, I worked for a vet for 10 years, and then became a groomer. But in good conscience cannot not put an animals life in front of a humans. These are people with families, children. I understand that they put there lives in peril, it is part of there job. *But, to knowingly go back into an inferno and to purposely put more human lives in danger (firefighters do not go in by themselves, they go with two or more men, but never alone), is being ignorant. In my eyes, people who choose to do that is no hero, they are attempted murderers*.


I am not putting anyone elses life in danger, if I choose to go back inside it is MY choice. If I want to commit suicide, again, it is MY choice. They do not need to come in after me. I would hope that if it were a "suicide mission" that the firefighters would know better than to come in after me. But I am still going in.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

If I received a call that my house was on fire, it would already be too late for my animals. The fire department would beat me there. 

If I woke up in the middle of the night and my house was on fire, I would rescue my animals before I call the fire department - foolish, maybe, but that is my nature. I wouldn't think twice about it. If my house was on fire and I thought I could put it out myself, I'd remove the animals 1st and risk loosing the house. 

My father has a farm in Kentucky. His older neighbor's house caught fire while the neighbor was in the hospital (lightning strike). My sister and I (who happened to be there on vacation) rushed over there as we knew he had a beloved avary full of birds attached to the back of the home. We were able to release the birds before they perished. My father was so angry at us for taking that risk, that he actually smacked both of us in the back of the head. I was 24 years old! It never crossed our minds not to try. Being in the country the house was a total loss, the fire department didn't stand a chance.


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## fsklax31 (Jun 30, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> I am not putting anyone elses life in danger, if I choose to go back inside it is MY choice. If I want to commit suicide, again, it is MY choice. *They do not need to come in after me*. I would hope that if it were a "suicide mission" that the firefighters would know better than to come in after me. But I am still going in.


That is their job! To save people from fires! 




bunchoberrys said:


> Being the daughter of a retired Firefighter, it truly saddens me to see the response of some people on this forum. I love my pets, I worked for a vet for 10 years, and then became a groomer. But in good conscience cannot not put an animals life in front of a humans. These are people with families, children. I understand that they put there lives in peril, it is part of there job. But, to knowingly go back into an inferno and to purposely put more human lives in danger (firefighters do not go in by themselves, they go with two or more men, but never alone), is being ignorant. In my eyes, people who choose to do that is no hero, they are attempted murderers.


I too do not like the response from people about this subject. I could not put another humans life below an animal. 

Like i said before i may try to go in before they got their, but if the blaze was too bad i would have the common sense to not go in. I would also not go in if i was told not to, or if i was jeopardizing someone else.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

If someone doesn't want to go in to rescue their dogs, that's their business. I will go in and I will do whatever it takes to get past whatever idiot tries to stop me. No one is more important than my dogs to me.


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## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

they have no choice but to go in after you. It is their JOB. Also, what would your family say about your death? Is the fire dept just going to tell them "oh, she said don't come after me"? 
People try to go in after things all the time. Priceless family heirlooms, things of monetary value, pets, etc etc. Should they be allowed to make the choice to go in as well? What if you went in and then started screaming for help? Should the firemen just say "tough *censored* and let you die for a foolish decision? 

Firefighters know their job, that is to save people from fire (and sometimes themselves). 99% of them will do anything possible to save your pets as well, but their first duty is to keep people safe.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

A few years ago my neighborhood was under a mandatory evacuation due to a fire, the big fire storm we had here in California where every County was on fire. I left for work that morning and everything was fine, than things changed for the worse, I left work early and it took me 6 hours to get up the pass going to my house, when I got there the police were there turning everyone away, I got out and argued that I had horses and dogs trapped and had to get to them, I implored the officer to let me go, he told me if I chose to disobey they would just have to warn me they would not be responding to any calls from people ignoring the evacuation order. I told him I understood completely and would not be asking them for help, but I ignored them anyway because it came down to me deciding I would rather die in the fire trying to save my animals, than have to live for the rest of my life knowing the fate they endured and how I wasn't there for them when they needed me most, and I thank God for the wonderful friends I am blessed with, as three of my best friends arrived with horse trailers and at 2:00 in the morning we had loaded up all 6 horses, all the dogs, all the cats and 2 bunnies as flames were fast approaching. I understand how some people wouldn't put their life in danger for animals, but to me, and my friends, these were just not animals, but family.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LARHAGE said:


> A few years ago my neighborhood was under a mandatory evacuation due to a fire, the big fire storm we had here in California where every County was on fire. I left for work that morning and everything was fine, than things changed for the worse, I left work early and it took me 6 hours to get up the pass going to my house, when I got there the police were there turning everyone away, I got out and argued that I had horses and dogs trapped and had to get to them, I implored the officer to let me go, he told me if I chose to disobey they would just have to warn me they would not be responding to any calls from people ignoring the evacuation order. I told him I understood completely and would not be asking them for help, but I ignored them anyway because it came down to me deciding I would rather die in the fire trying to save my animals, than have to live for the rest of my life knowing the fate they endured and how I wasn't there for them when they needed me most, and I thank God for the wonderful friends I am blessed with, as three of my best friends arrived with horse trailers and at 2:00 in the morning we had loaded up all 6 horses, all the dogs, all the cats and 2 bunnies as flames were fast approaching. I understand how some people wouldn't put their life in danger for animals, but to me, and my friends, these were just not animals, but family.


Please! opcorn: Was it a happy ending? Did the flames spare your house? This is like the best part of a movie and we've broke for commercial!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Larhage, I really agree with your decision, and you went to save animals from approaching fire and did not go against a direct order and put other people in peril trying to save you. Your friends had made their choice as well.

But when firemen are fighting a house fire, and they will not allow you to go back in, that is a little different.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Lilie said:


> Please! opcorn: Was it a happy ending? Did the flames spare your house? This is like the best part of a movie and we've broke for commercial!


 
The Firemen ( Bless their hearts ) saved my house, the horses and animals could not come back for a long time because the ash damage was severe, it literally covered everything. I thank God for my friends and a great stroke of luck that none of my horses panicked that night, it was so late, the flames were roaring and the air was so bad your eyes burned, but all the horses, including 3 yearlings all got in the trailer like troopers, they seemed to sense the danger, I loaded an older horse with a youngster to ease their fright, and the dogs and cats and bunnies all crammed with me into my truck, I felt like the Beverly Hillbillies going down the pass, it was a TERRFYING ordeal, but now I can look back and laugh at it, a few days later I went up to see my house and as I drove up the Firemen were just down the street a bit checking their truck, I drove up to them, got out and walked up to them to thank them, and like an idiot started blubbering, they hugged me and told me they were so happy all the horses were safe, they genuinely were worried about the horses.


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

I understand Elaine's point. I live alone and my GSD is my only family. When I am gone he has the run of the house. In fact, he can sleep on any bed or sofa of his choosing. He prefers the leather couch in the living room. The best thing I did was install a doggie door some years back which leads to a very secured back yard.

It came in handy one day when I left the stove on with soup cooking. The flame was so low, that when I left the house I assumed I had turned it off. My neighbor called me to tell me she could hear the smoke detectors and when I rushed home there was no fire but the house was permeated with a choking layer of smoke. 

My LittleGuy had simply run out the doggie door and sat at the furthest end of the backyard. I was so relieved. I didn't give a flying rat's ear about anything in the house. I just wanted LittleGuy to be safe. If you are able to have one, the doggie door makes for a great escape hatch in the event of fire.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

bunchoberrys said:


> Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity


Love it!!!

Here in Florida you sometimes hear warnings from the powers that be if you decide to ride out a hurricane in certain areas that will be blocked off, it's tough darts if you chicken out and later call for help because you ain't gonna get it. And yes, every once in a while someone who made the decision to stay is found dead or injured. Saving a house may not be as dramatic as wanting too save a well loved pet, but bad things can happen when you go against the advice of experts.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

These stories make me never want to crate my dog while I'm gone ever again!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

fsklax31 said:


> I completely agree with you Selzer! *You can get another Dog*, but you can't bring back the firefighter.
> 
> I would probably go in before they got there, but if they told me not to go back in then im not going back in. It would also depend on the size of the blaze.
> 
> But i completely agree with you Selzer!


My dogs are my life, my best friends, my pride and joy. No dog can replace them. No dog is the same as any other dog. 

No matter the cause of death of a dog, I can't just get another dog and be ok. When my previous dogs passed away, I couldn't fathom it. I didn't know what I would do. I didn't think I could have another dog(they were my heart dogs). Yes, over time, I would not be able to live with myself, thinking I could have saved him. 

No you can't just get another dog. It took time for my dogs now to win me over. Another dog will heal your heart, but it will never replace the one who loved you before.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

For me, it would depend on the situation (and I hope I never ever have to go thru this).. If my house was an inferno, I would have to except the fact, my animals were most likely already gone(

If I thought I could go in, and get them out , I would do it. I have 5 cats and 3 dogs in the house when I'm not home. One dog is crated, the other two are free roaming, the cats, well I'm not sure what "they" would do so I may not be able to save them.

I do have a Pet sign on ALL my doors, in case of emergency. 

A couple years ago, we had a bad lightening storm, we were home. the house was hit by lightening, the stove was on fire, blew out my dishwasher, furnace, downstairs, the hubby was trying to shut the power off and got a jolt of electricity.

We felt we should call 911, to come check things out just in case (the stove fire was put out prior)..I took the 4 dogs at the time, and put them in my upstairs bedroom.

The FD came, and when I met them at the door, one of them noticed some smoke coming out of the attic vent,,I immediately turned around and got the dogs, with the FD's on my butt, telling me to get out,,well that wasn't happening,,it was 'smoke' not fire, but I was NOT going to leave my dogs in there,,got them out fine, 

It was really not 'smoke' but more like humidity coming out of the attic..Long story short,,it was an insurance nightmare, but no fire/smoke damage..and animals were fine..

I hope I never ever am put in that type of situation


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

I would do everything to save my dogs, but I would not risk a firefighter's life coming in to save me. My son is a firefighter. They have saved many many animals...they have done mouth to mouth on pets w/ smoke inhalation. Firefighters are people with families and pets too....they will do everything they can BUT (!) when they say it is no longer safe-it is no longer safe! My children would never forgive me if I never got to see my grandchildren because I died trying to save my dogs. Hopefully you are more than just a pet owner. I cry everytime a firefighter is injured or killed, a true tragedy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My dogs are the only children I will ever have. And no I cannot just get another dog. Losing them to fire is my worst nightmare. But, having a human being die because of my trying to save my dogs, that would be worse. 

Every day when I would wake up, I would remember that he would not. 

Every time I would look at my nieces and nephew, I would think about his kids, wife, parents. 

Every holiday, every good time, every family moment I would know that this man is no longer sharing these moments with his family and that is because I did not follow his order and put him in a position where he lost his life. 

Chances are I would die in the blaze too. So I would not have to answer for the dead fireman. But KNOWING that they would follow me in. I could not do it. 

We want those guys around to fight fires, not to die in fires.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

The whole root of this is whether you truly feel your dogs are your kids or not. The people that do are going to do whatever it takes to go in and get them. The people that don't, won't, and will just stand there and watch them die. 

No one can tell me that my dogs aren't my kids. As for that stupidity of thinking about the supposedly dead fire guy's kids, what about my dead dog? You wouldn't think twice about someone going in after their human kids. Back off on even daring to tell me how I should or shouldn't feel toward my dogs. There are a lot of people like me that see no difference between how you should feel between the two.

If you want to value your dogs less than people, that's your loss and a terrible shame for your dogs. I don't care what you do. Just be aware that that's not the case for a lot of the rest of us and you have absolutely no right to try and devalue any of our dogs in our eyes.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

I have a sign on my door that says in the event of an emergency please rescue my 2 cats and 1 dog. Because my partner is a paraplegic and if he is lying down cannot get up without me, we have added to it " 1 paraplegic man". I can't say what I would do really. When I was 14 I had a sleepover at a friends house, her dad was frying chips in the middle of the night, whilst drunk. Yup you guessed it, the house was gutted. I still remember the terror of having to wake my friend up and try and get the rest of the family up. We were all safe including the cat who took a couple of heart rendering days to turn up. 

My animals are my life and to me are the only children I will ever have and I know I would do everything in my power to save them but in the actual event..if a fireman's life was at risk because of me...well I can't say for sure what I would do.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Elaine said:


> The whole root of this is whether you truly feel your dogs are your kids or not. The people that do are going to do whatever it takes to go in and get them. The people that don't, won't, and will just stand there and watch them die.
> 
> No one can tell me that my dogs aren't my kids. As for that stupidity of thinking about the supposedly dead fire guy's kids, what about my dead dog? You wouldn't think twice about someone going in after their human kids. Back off on even daring to tell me how I should or shouldn't feel toward my dogs. There are a lot of people like me that see no difference between how you should feel between the two.
> 
> If you want to value your dogs less than people, that's your loss and a terrible shame for your dogs. I don't care what you do. Just be aware that that's not the case for a lot of the rest of us and you have absolutely no right to try and devalue any of our dogs in our eyes.


Exactly, my animals are my children and I would never sit back and not do anything. I never want 2 legged children, I do not like them 1 bit, my animals are my family, there is nothing that I wouldn't do for them. Nothing.

Some people will never understand, just like I dont understand why people want to have 2 legged kids.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> Exactly, my animals are my children and I would never sit back and not do anything. I never want 2 legged children, I do not like them 1 bit, my animals are my family, there is nothing that I wouldn't do for them. Nothing.
> 
> Some people will never understand, just like I dont understand why people want to have 2 legged kids.


I am the same Lauren, I have never wanted children and am 35 now. I love being with animals much more than people. I do believe I would do anything and everything to save them, but if I was faced with someone having to (and I mean that their code of ethics, practise, whatever makes them) follow me in, well I don't know I could do it. Just me though  However if I was there, I wouldn't wait for the firemen anyway. I always leave the cats cage close at hand so I could (hopefully) find the monster's and throw them in it. Molly has her crate by the front door so assuming I could get to that door, I would chuck the whole shebang outside.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

bianca said:


> I am the same Lauren, I have never wanted children and am 35 now. I love being with animals much more than people. I do believe I would do anything and everything to save them, but if I was faced with someone having to (and I mean that their code of ethics, practise, whatever makes them) follow me in, well I don't know I could do it. Just me though  However if I was there, I wouldn't wait for the firemen anyway. *I always leave the cats cage close at hand so I could (hopefully) find the monster's and throw them in it. Molly has her crate by the front door so assuming I could get to that door, I would chuck the whole shebang outside*.


:rofl:

I would have an extremely hard time rounding up the bitches, they hide from anything and everything, I'd have to crawl under the bed to get them.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

well, the firemen wouldn't let anyone go in after HUMAN children either. It's not a matter of "pets are less important" It's a matter of firemen are trained to handle these matters. They are the ones who will go inside.

How about if, instead of being able to save your children (2 legs or 4), the firemen have to stop and carry out you out and because of that wasted time your children died? That is the issue we are looking at here. By an untrained civilian entering the house, you are making the firemen unable to do their job because everything else has to be put on hold while they get you out first.

When someone has to fight and argue and restrain the homeowner outside, that is time and distraction away from saving the house, your pets, and your possessions. If you live in town or a subdivision, your neighbor could lose their home as well. 

At a certain point in a fire, firemen won't go in after HUMANS either. The chances of finding a living person are so slim that it's not worth the risk to additional lives. We don't know what state this home was in when the man was detained. It could have already been a total loss and going inside would have been suicide for anyone. But, if the man raced in, they would have had to get him. If it was so far gone they couldn't go after him, then those firefighters would have had to live with the guilt of someone they couldn't save.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> :rofl:
> 
> I would have an extremely hard time rounding up the bitches, they hide from anything and everything, I'd have to crawl under the bed to get them.


That's the advantage of having old moggies I guess! Not that I know how they would react in a fire but I can guarentee they will be on the spare bed on *their* electric blankets the rest of the time! ( I don't even have one but my girls have their heated pet pads )


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

JakodaCD OA said:


> For me, it would depend on the situation (and I hope I never ever have to go thru this).. If my house was an inferno, I would have to except the fact, my animals were most likely already gone(
> 
> If I thought I could go in, and get them out , I would do it. ..........
> 
> I hope I never ever am put in that type of situation


I totally agree. Having my childhood home burn to the ground I'm :fingerscrossed: that none of you will ever be faced with this type of situation. Also that I'm never faced with it ever again. Yes, in my case the dogs were saved and no one lost their lives.



Elaine said:


> The whole root of this is whether you truly feel your dogs are your kids or not. The people that do are going to do whatever it takes to go in and get them. The people that don't, won't, and will just stand there and watch them die.


I don't look at my dogs as if they are my kids BUT I hear what you're saying. My dogs mean a heck of a lot to me. They are my best buds and I feel I have the same devotion to them as those of you saying you would do everything in your power to save them. I could not just stand there and watch as they burned up with the house. They are living, breathing things that I accepted a responsibility to care for and protect. I owe it to them to at least try as hard as they would for me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Elaine said:


> The whole root of this is whether you truly feel your dogs are your kids or not. The people that do are going to do whatever it takes to go in and get them. The people that don't, won't, and will just stand there and watch them die.
> 
> No one can tell me that my dogs aren't my kids. As for that stupidity of thinking about the supposedly dead fire guy's kids, what about my dead dog? You wouldn't think twice about someone going in after their human kids. Back off on even daring to tell me how I should or shouldn't feel toward my dogs. There are a lot of people like me that see no difference between how you should feel between the two.
> 
> If you want to value your dogs less than people, that's your loss and a terrible shame for your dogs. I don't care what you do. Just be aware that that's not the case for a lot of the rest of us and you have absolutely no right to try and devalue any of our dogs in our eyes.


HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT I DO NOT CARE ABOUT MY DOGS??? I DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO DEVALUE YOUR DOGS? WHAT ARE YOU DOING -- "A TERRIBLE SHAME FOR YOUR DOGS"??? 

I do not know how long you have graced the earth with your presence, but it is a terribly selfish thing to cause other people to risk their lives like that. 

Your dogs will be grieved by you. That is bad. The firemen will be grieved by parents, children, siblings, friends, the community. Children growing up without their father, parents growing old without their son. These are things that are far beyond that of an individual's loss of their pet.

If you risked other's lives and rushed in because of your human baby, well, I am sure that people in general will have sympathy for that. The chances are that you will have only compounded the tragedy though, and the possibility that by not letting them do their job, reduced your child's chance of survival. Live with that. 

It is selfish to say I won't care because I will be dead. 

I find this topic repulsive.


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

Guys, please...

I don't want this thread to turn into attacks on each other, that wasn't my intent in making it. I was simply curious to know if people felt this guy was acting completely irrationally (having gotten worked up to the point of needing to be arrested) and if you would have done the same. There's no need for anyone to question any one else's love for their dogs, as I'm sure we _all_ love our pets here, can we all please calm down?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Whether my kid is 4 legged or 2 legged I will go in after them. I love them both.I love kids, I grew up around them, and want some someday. I will always have dogs.

Losing either, would be devastating for me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, I am sorry, got a little carried away. I will leave off this thread now.


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## Josiebear (Oct 16, 2006)

I don't think that man should have those misdemeanor against him. I don't blame the guy for being upset at all. A firefighter will go in to rescue a baby but not a dog?. Either way that's a sad sitsuation. Hope the court goes easy on the guy, we have murderers and rapists out there that they should be throwing in jail, not a guy who is clearly upset over the lost of his dog.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> well, the firemen wouldn't let anyone go in after HUMAN children either. It's not a matter of "pets are less important" It's a matter of firemen are trained to handle these matters. They are the ones who will go inside.
> 
> How about if, instead of being able to save your children (2 legs or 4), the firemen have to stop and carry out you out and because of that wasted time your children died? That is the issue we are looking at here. By an untrained civilian entering the house, you are making the firemen unable to do their job because everything else has to be put on hold while they get you out first.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:

My best friends dad was a firefighter. He died from injuries in a fire when we were 14. Her brother was 8.

I love my dog and I would do anything in my power to help him but if a fireman says no let us handle it thats what I'll do. I could not live with myself if I caused a family to grow up without a parent because of my dog. If your dog can be saved a fireman will do it. I don't know why people think they are fireproof and can do it with no gear. 

When we get a dog we know that in about 12 years it will die. A little kid does not know that one day their mom or dad might not come home from work. If you want to be responsible for that then shame on you.


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

sagelfn said:


> I don't know why people think they are fireproof and can do it with no gear.


:rofl: I don't know why that was so funny to me...


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Melina said:


> Guys, please...
> 
> I don't want this thread to turn into attacks on each other, that wasn't my intent in making it. I was simply curious to know if people felt this guy was acting completely irrationally (having gotten worked up to the point of needing to be arrested) and if you would have done the same. There's no need for anyone to question any one else's love for their dogs, as I'm sure we _all_ love our pets here, can we all please calm down?


I agree.
No personal attacks are necessary. Everyone can have their own opinions and they can be different. 
Thank you,
Vinnie
Admin.


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Back to the topic....

I think I may be in a bit of a different situation than some in that I live in a rural area. Many of the firemen/women in my area are personal friends or family members. Yes, I know their families (in some cases I am their family) and care about them all. 

I still would do everything I could to save my dogs. They know this about me. I spoke with one of them (local fireman) today and brought up this topic. He told me that in this type of situation many people get very emotional and do crazy things without really thinking about the consequences. He said he would expect that I would be one of those crazies.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Without the proper gear a human can not survive a fully engulfed structure. A house on fire is well over 1,000 degrees inside. Think how hot your oven is and how quickly you are burnt touching a pan or sticking your hand into an oven at 350 degrees. 

Run into a burning building and the first breath you take pulls in super hot air into your lungs. With that first intake of air you are breathing in toxins. I'm not going to go into more details on the state of your skin but you will not survive. According to what is burning and how hot the fire is a firefighters gear will not protect him. 

I have had firefighters from my station fall through floors trying to save pets. I have seen the faces of firefighters who have not been able to save animals in a home so I know how they feel.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

I would have went and got my dogs. Forget the firemen. I would die if I stood by and let my dogs burn to death or die from breathing the smoke.


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

ILGHAUS said:


> Without the proper gear a human can not survive a fully engulfed structure. A house on fire is well over 1,000 degrees inside. Think how hot your oven is and how quickly you are burnt touching a pan or sticking your hand into an oven at 350 degrees.
> 
> Run into a burning building and the first breath you take pulls in super hot air into your lungs. With that first intake of air you are breathing in toxins. I'm not going to go into more details on the state of your skin but you will not survive. According to what is burning and how hot the fire is a firefighters gear will not protect him.
> 
> I have had firefighters from my station fall through floors trying to save pets. I have seen the faces of firefighters who have not been able to save animals in a home so I know how they feel.



Thank you for shedding some light on the subject. As Vinnie said, most people would not be thinking rationally (I know I wouldn't), and would do everything possible to go back in and get their pets. You really brought into perspective the odds of actually being successful in saving your pet, though, which is something I certainly didn't think about. This brings up a serious dilemma in my mind, however. Do I irrationally attempt to save my pet when there is little chance that both of us will make it out alive? Consequently, my family will have lost a Daughter/Niece/Sister/Etc. and any Firefighter having to go in after me may lose their life as well. As others have said, their family will have to deal with the loss, of course. Or...Do I do nothing to save my beloved friend, if I take those things into account, then go the rest of my life knowing that I made no effort to save their life? Could I live with that?

When I initially saw this story on the news and made this post, all I was thinking about was the fact that this man was trying to save his dog's life, which many of us would do, I didn't consider how many other lives would have been lost had he succeeded in getting back into his burning home and had Firefighters had to go in after him. I'm not sure how I feel on the subject now. I guess what it comes down to is what would you feel worse about? Doing nothing to save your dog? Or doing everything in your power and possibly taking human lives in the attempt?

I love my animals, you better believe I'll do everything in my power to help them, but this reminds me of a discussion I got into with an ex-boyfriend of mine. It basically boiled down to which, ultimately, was more valuable. Human life? Or animal life? I think his question to me was: If I was alone on an island with only my dog, food was running low, what would I do? Rescue was coming, but only one could eat, only one was going to survive. I told him that my dog would eat first, no questions asked. He then asked me to replace myself with my Father and said: Now, who gets the food?

It's a hard choice, but I think you all know my answer.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I think you have to look at it as you didn't do nothing. You let your dog have the best chance of rescue by letting professionals work.

If your friend/family member was not breathing and you didn't know CPR would you be pushing the EMTs out of the way to try and do something or would you stand by and let them work? If forbid CPR does not work and they can't bring them back do you blame yourself for not doing anything?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I'm with Sage, except I think you are KILLING your pet, not helping him. As I posted before, trying to get in yourself hinders the professionals in doing their work. 

You run into the fire to save your pet. Fireman goes in after you, carries out your unconscious body to the ambulance. He turns to go back in, but the fire is now too bad to risk anyone going inside (even to save a human). Instead of saving your dog, you've signed his death warrant.

In the scenario she mentioned, say you are already holding your family member when EMTs arrive. They try to do CPR, but time is wasted trying to get you out of the way. When they do get started, your family member is dead. Would you feel responsible since you didn't let them work?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am glad that there are generally police officers and firemen that can help us when we are not ourselves in the face of serious danger and tragedy. What we think we would do, and what we will do are sometimes not one in the same.


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

Sorry for the thread derail, but this is my son. A house was on fire, and he found this little guy running around inside. He brought him out of the house just as a reporter showed up.










He used to get embarrassed when this picture got talked about, until a few of us pointed out that the picture would get him hired full-time (he was a part-timer when this was taken). And it did.


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

Back on topic - 

"If you can do it without getting hurt yourself, could you try to save my dog?" would probably work. Running into a burning building while wearing only street clothes...I don't want to think about it.


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

I haven't read everyone's replies but I have to say I would have to try to save my dog. I could not live with myself knowing that I did not at least try. If the firefighters want to let me die trying because they thought I was stupid for going in...then that is fine by me. I wouldn't want to put others at risk but life is too precious to sit by and do nothing.


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## Melina (Feb 20, 2010)

Hunther's Dad said:


> He used to get embarrassed when this picture got talked about, until a few of us pointed out that the picture would get him hired full-time (he was a part-timer when this was taken). And it did.


Aww, he's a Hero! No joke. If he had saved my dogs like that I would be calling him a Hero and he would certainly get a "thank you" card every year from me. I don't know what there is to be embarrassed about, he did an amazing thing.


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