# Need some opinions please



## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

I could really use an educated opinion or two. Our family will be adding another shepherd in a few months, and so far have been talking with several local breeders. Two really stand out. Both seem responsible, and do the health checks and give health guarantees. So on that end both seem to be a wash. We will be going next week to meet one of the breeders and see her dogs. We can meet the other by appointment.

Really what I need is someone who is good at evaluating pedigrees to look at the pairings and tell me which ones they think look the best...

I am not sure about protocol here and do not want to post pairings up on an open forum. So if anyone is willing to help, I will IM the pedigree database info of the pairings...

I would really appreciate it...

this and this are the breeders that I am leaning towards.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I can suggest you pm Cliff and/or Carmen,,they'll tell it like it is.

I know Abbie just had elbow surgery, I would be concerned that a puppy may be to much for her recupperation, so just be aware that puppies can cause alot of chaos especially to a dog recovering from surgery..


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I can suggest you pm Cliff and/or Carmen,,they'll tell it like it is.
> 
> I know Abbie just had elbow surgery, I would be concerned that a puppy may be to much for her recupperation, so just be aware that puppies can cause alot of chaos especially to a dog recovering from surgery..


Yeah, we are looking several months down the road. December at the very earliest. Maybe sometime early next year.

Certainly not now. Abbie gets the next 4-6 months for sure...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

The links you provide tell me absolutely nothing about the dogs and even less about the breeders .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sticking some well known German kennel name on a dog born in the US out of untitled parents turns me off pretty quickly. Using a dog for stud with a "borrowed" kennel name and no credentials compounds it....doing it over and over ..... just what makes the shelters full of BY bred dogs....

there is only one kennel that shows up in your links...

lee


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

carmspack said:


> The links you provide tell me absolutely nothing about the dogs and even less about the breeders .
> 
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


Sending you a PM...


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Also, if anyone has any recommendations for breeders in Louisiana or along the Gulf Coast, we're all ears...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

a friend of mine is in louisiana, she rarely posts here, I'll give her a ring and ask her the breeder she got her male from, he's gorgeous and a really nice dog, not sure what she's doing with him , he's still young..


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> a friend of mine is in louisiana, she rarely posts here, I'll give her a ring and ask her the breeder she got her male from, he's gorgeous and a really nice dog, not sure what she's doing with him , he's still young..


Please do... We're looking for a good family dog. Were not really gonna try anything Schutzhund, but we do basic and intermediate obedience and hopefully a CGC. 

We're willing to go most anywhere along the Gulf Coast for the right dog...


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Agility is also an option...

We'd love to here any other recommendations. We've received one from Wolfstraum, but would like to look into as many options as possible before deciding.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when you click on the first ("this") from the OP's
orginal post Pedigree Data Base shows up. scroll down
the page and you'll find the pedigree.



carmspack said:


> The links you provide tell me absolutely nothing about the dogs and even less about the breeders .
> 
> Carmen
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

My friend (kallie here on the board) in Louisiana, here is a post when she first got him, his name is Zindelo von Schone Stadt. You can look at her other posts by clicking into her name and 'view posts' ,,shows you how he's grown up, he is almost a year old I believe,,she is very very happy with him


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would look at this breeder if I were that far south. http://www.k9imports.com/index.html

Don't limit yourself to just your area, there are many good breeders within a day's drive...
Sequoyah German Shepherds


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> I would look at this breeder if I were that far south. Don't limit yourself to just your area, there are many good breeders within a day's drive...
> Sequoyah German Shepherds


Pretty much I have sent out emails to several breeders I can find within 5 hour drive. From here in Baton Rouge, that means as far away as the Houston Area over to Panama City Florida and up to south Arkansas. Tennessee is a bit further than I was planning, but if nothing else I suppose its worth heading that way.

I will completely admit that I am severely biased towards prefering to find a breeder that is within driving distance as opposed to shipping. Simply put, I want to be able to see the parents and meet the breeder in person. Unfortunately that is making this significantly more difficult. However, we are not in a rush, and have several months to find the right one...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

since you've got this time, which is great, make a weekend trip out of it It's definately a good thing when you can meet the breeder and their dogs in person. Don't limit yourself , check out all you can


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## ed1911 (Jan 19, 2011)

Hey neighbor, I was at the Baton Rouge OB club competition in Gonzales with Smokey, I may have saw you there. I am near both these breeders but I only know one. MM which is in Denham Springs which is really close to you. I dont want to be bias either way because I have never met the breeder in Mandeville. If you are looking for a pet quality dog Im sure either one would be fine. You are welcome to come to Ponchatoula and watch mine work if you want to have something to compare the parents to. We are working on our CDX with the dumbell retrieve being the only thing that we are lacking. They love to retrieve everything except the dumbell.


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## kallie (Sep 3, 2001)

Just my VIEW and I'm from New Orleans and currently live in Ms...There is NO one in LA. or Ms I would get a GSD from. There is ONE guy that has 2 males in my town that are from EXCELLENT lines, BUT he is having a problem breeding them due to our area I got Zindelo from Kentucky..LOVE LOVE LOVE this breeder If you want more info on them PM me Also we will have to meet up as we are not that far away MAF Kamahi, "Sacha's" Pup came from my breeder also


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Yeah, I am looking out of state now. One breeder we really like in AZ, another in TN...

Not that the breeders around here didn't have nice dogs, but none of them just felt like "thats the one"... Ya know?


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

Jamie the breeder from Schone Stadt is on this forum. I will be using their stud dog Ali to 1 of our DDR girls soon. I hope to be able to see this boy in person as well as meet the owners.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Just an update... We have a reservation for a male puppy from Grand Canyon K9's "I" litter.


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

You have picked a Good breeder and that's where I would go if I was looking for lines like that. You will Love the puppy that you get from her, Congrats!!!!!


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

BR870 said:


> Just an update... We have a reservation for a male puppy from Grand Canyon K9's "I" litter.


 i love that breeder


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

How is it that a breeder can already know which puppy is going to which puppy buyer? When they are tiny babies that haven't yet even developed their true personalities yet. Heck, often they don''t even have their eyes open yet! What is to say that the puppy that is reserved for a specific person is going to have the temperament that that buyer wants/needs? Is the puppy buyer going to get said puppy no matter what it ends up acting like? I just don't get it!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

well i think the "reservation" is not for a particular puppy or even a guarantee of one from a particular litter, but more like you're "on a reservation list" and as soon as a suitable puppy for you is available you can choose to accept that puppy (or not).


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

That may be, but that is NOT how the breeder puts it. They say certain specific puppies are reserved and to whom. They also say certain specific puppies are still available.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

a breeder can generally know what the puppies are going to be like. When i got my pup it was the 2nd litter from a pair she already did. these pups are bred for a specific purpose. a good breeder will know how to breed for an outcome. generally if you put down a reservation for a specific litter-it doesn't ALWAYS follow through. there may not be enough males. or if there's just a few males-there may be a chance that it didn't work out like the breeder planned. in that case your reservation gets moved.

this is a fantastic breeder with fantastic dogs


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

When someone is reserved for 1st pick, it is usually the breeder who makes that decision, not the person coming in to "pick" their pup...at least with responsible breeders(the one posted above looks very responsible) Of course the purchaser should trust the breeder they've chosen to make the right choice. 
And usually the breeder won't know til around 7 weeks which pup is going where.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> How is it that a breeder can already know which puppy is going to which puppy buyer? When they are tiny babies that haven't yet even developed their true personalities yet. Heck, often they don''t even have their eyes open yet! What is to say that the puppy that is reserved for a specific person is going to have the temperament that that buyer wants/needs? Is the puppy buyer going to get said puppy no matter what it ends up acting like? I just don't get it!


It is the tentative pick. She may change as the puppies develop, but she is not expecting many surprises with this litter. However, if she feels one is not right she will change it...

ETA: She picks the pups for the clients.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Jane and M.M., PPI know what you are saying. When I've bought puppies that the breeder chose, I didn't know until 7 or 8 weeks which individual pup from the litter I was getting. However the breeders would say, for instance, they have 1 female still available. But they did NOT, know when the pups were only a week or two old, EXACTLY WHICH individual pup that was. When any breeder, shows pics on their site, and has individual pups listed as sold or available, when they are still tiny babies, it makes me wonder. I am getting the feeling that I'm, not making myself clear as to what I am saying.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

I understand what you're saying, and this is just my guess. The picks say black male or sable male, based on the buyers' preference. I think if the pick was more specific, it would say "blue collar male" or "red collar girl". I'm sure as the pups age and the breeder evaluates temperament, they may apply the "sable male" to the appropriate buyer. Generally, I would like the breeder to pick my pup, but I also want what I want. And if my heart is set on a sable male, and a particular sable male wasn't suitable for me, I'm not going to want to settle for the black male and vice versa. I would think the breeder would then move my deposit to the next litter for the pup who's temperament and drive fits the sable male I was looking for should they turn out to not be a fit for me...


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> Jane and M.M., PPI know what you are saying. When I've bought puppies that the breeder chose, I didn't know until 7 or 8 weeks which individual pup from the litter I was getting. However the breeders would say, for instance, they have 1 female still available. But they did NOT, know when the pups were only a week or two old, EXACTLY WHICH individual pup that was. When any breeder, shows pics on their site, and has individual pups listed as sold or available, when they are still tiny babies, it makes me wonder. I am getting the feeling that I'm, not making myself clear as to what I am saying.


Again, this is just the tentative pick for the puppy. She is not guaranteeing that you will get that puppy. She is in essence reserving a sable male puppy for us. For now, she is GUESSING it may be that one. However, it is just an educated guess based on her experience as a breeder and knowing her stock well. However, she will change it as they develop more if she feels it is necessary.

She does not expect many surprises from this litter...


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Lakl said:


> I understand what you're saying, and this is just my guess. The picks say black male or sable male, based on the buyers' preference. I think if the pick was more specific, it would say "blue collar male" or "red collar girl". I'm sure as the pups age and the breeder evaluates temperament, they may apply the "sable male" to the appropriate buyer. Generally, I would like the breeder to pick my pup, but I also want what I want. And if my heart is set on a sable male, and a particular sable male wasn't suitable for me, I'm not going to want to settle for the black male and vice versa. I would think the breeder would then move my deposit to the next litter for the pup who's temperament and drive fits the sable male I was looking for should they turn out to not be a fit for me...


That is what I have been saying all along. I am talking about breeders that DO say which are sold or "reserved" based on the pups name or collar color. NOT breeders that say for instance, "1black male available". Its when they tell you EXACTLY Which black male that is, when the puppies are only a week or 2 old. So they show individual pics of the puppies, with names or collar colors mentioned, and say for instance blue collar boy is sold, red collar boy available.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> Jane and M.M., PPI know what you are saying. When I've bought puppies that the breeder chose, I didn't know until 7 or 8 weeks which individual pup from the litter I was getting. However the breeders would say, for instance, they have 1 female still available. But they did NOT, know when the pups were only a week or two old, EXACTLY WHICH individual pup that was. When any breeder, shows pics on their site, and has individual pups listed as sold or available, when they are still tiny babies, it makes me wonder. I am getting the feeling that I'm, not making myself clear as to what I am saying.


One more time... She is not saying EXACTLY WHICH. It is a tentative reservation. If she feels a pup is not right for the client she will either give them the choice of another pup that is more correct for them, or move the reservation to a different litter.

Again, "tentative"...

ETA: BTW, the names move around with the reservation. Atleast until the tattoos go on. Whatever pup she picks for us will be named "Izra" atleast until that name has been specifically attached to a tattoo/microchip number


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

BR870 said:


> She does not expect many surprises from this litter...


I get that. But it doesn't take a "surprise" in the litter to know how the temperament is going to be for an individual. At a week old, you have no way of knowing if said puppy is going to be more laid back, or one with off the charts drive. It is common to get BOTH types in a litter. I guess I just don''t see the point in telling people they are getting a specific pup that early, when that may not be the case. Especially when ther at plenty of "breeders" (and I use the term loosely), that DO mark individuals as sold that early, and no matter how its temperament end up, THAT is the pup the buyer gets. No master if it is a good fit for them or not.
Congrats on your puppy!
I'm not trying to"rain on your parade " even though it may sound like that.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> I get that. But it doesn't take a "surprise" in the litter to know how the temperament is going to be for an individual. At a week old, you have no way of knowing if said puppy is going to be more laid back, or one with off the charts drive. It is common to get BOTH types in a litter. I guess I just don''t see the point in telling people they are getting a specific pup that early, when that may not be the case. Especially when ther at plenty of "breeders" (and I use the term loosely), that DO mark individuals as sold that early, and no matter how its temperament end up, THAT is the pup the buyer gets. No master if it is a good fit for them or not.
> Congrats on your puppy!
> I'm not trying to"rain on your parade " even though it may sound like that.


She makes it very clear to all of her clients that you may not end up with that pup. She makes early picks based on preference for sable or black or whatever, but she tells you in no uncertain terms that she will make changes as necessary.

What other breeders do is not really an issue. I know they do that, but that is not what Barbara does.


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## CelticGlory (Jan 19, 2006)

Tracy, with my time looking at other breeds puppies over the years; what the breeder does is record each puppy's behavior and get a general idea of what they *could* end up like; however, they tell you that the puppy's personality could change, but they observe the puppies and record what the puppy is like at that point in time (who's the runt, who's the biggest, who's the loud mouth, who interacts with the other puppies, etc). Also from my understanding of the waiting list, its almost like a first come, first serve bases *if* you pass the application/questionnaire process and phone interview with the breeder. So if that litter's waiting list is full they put you onto the next future litter or you look for a different breeder. They can only put so many names on a waiting list for a puppy. 

So a *pick* really isn't a pick, but its just to hold that spot of the potential puppy owner so that the breeder's can keep track of who put a deposit down for what type of puppy either by color or gender and what they are looking for.

ETA: Have you ever looked at a litter of puppies closely? Observe where the puppies are laying down and how they are spread out. Some tend to be in groups with two or more puppies while others are off by themselves even at 1 or 2 weeks old.


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## Jgk2383 (Aug 5, 2009)

I have two pups from this breeder. Each from a seperate litter. Each time my reservation for my pup was switched around and each time the name of the pup stayed the samehe name of the pup moves with the person its reserved for not the puppy itself. She is crystal clear in saying that the pictures on the site and your reservation with your name under the picture can change and probably will change. I'll weigh in more later but for anyone to think anything underhanded is going on here is absurd. I could not be more thrilled with the pups I have.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Jgk2383 said:


> I have two pups from this breeder. Each from a seperate litter. Each time my reservation for my pup was switched around and each time the name of the pup stayed the samehe name of the pup moves with the person its reserved for not the puppy itself. She is crystal clear in saying that the pictures on the site and your reservation with your name under the picture can change and probably will change. I'll weigh in more later but for anyone to think anything underhanded is going on here is absurd. I could not be more thrilled with the pups I have.


:thumbup:

Exactly...


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## GCK9 (Mar 29, 2011)

I do not usually post on Forums as we are busy with our dogs and feel that my time is better spent working dogs helping people with their dogs or taking care of our puppies plus working a very physical job 5 days aweek. But I am a very very honest and straight forward person and will not tolerate someone that has not spoken to me met me in person questioning my ethics. I am Arizona born and raised and we take our ethics very seriously our word is more important than anything. MY DOGS ARE MY LIFE. We do not have fancy cars fancy furniture or the like. I do have however the best puppy facility and puppy program I have seen and we constantly imrove this facility. Again clients friend can speak about our puppy program. We also have the best dogs that I could find any where. All aound dogs healthy stable dogs that can do many things well. We train handle and compete at a high level and twice or three times yearly breed litters when we have clients wanting a type or types of our dogs plus this is my passion and hobby. We do things differently than most and we have been very successful in our breeding program. We offer a incentive fund for our dogs and suitablilty guarantee.WE OFFER A SUITABILITY GUARANTEE . If for any reason you do not like or cannot keep your puppy for the life of the dog I WILL PAY YOU WHAT YOU PAID FOR IT AND GLADLY TAKE OUR DOG BACK. Also in my contract is states we have first right of purchase. I do not put collars on puppies dangerous to do so. We mark our puppies in a different fashion. AS Glocks new mom as well as Hex's and Ivan can tell you if they want to. I can leave that up to our clients/friends to attest to this that do frequent this forum also they have seen our notes and some testing we do. I try to include new puppy owners by using a name a picture until we start testing. If anyone has any questions i am very easy to reach living in the same house for 26 years and the same city where I was born. My number is unlisted and my emails are answered promptly. My point is if you have a question call me. Also ask for references . I have many from people i have helped with their dogs that just had dogs and they needed help in training any breed anytime for no charge to clients to people in sport and Law Enforcement ALL WHO I HAVE BRED AND PICKED THEIR PUPPIES.Many that I have trained their dogs or sold them green dogs etc So I will leave it at that my reputation is spotless and my clients and their dogs are what matter to us. If you need questions answered call me i will answer them but please do not try to judge me my dogs my program if you do not know or have not asked me in person. It is childish some what odd and very unprofessional to do so. Thank you Barbara Andersen Grand canyon K9 ** phone number removed by Admin**


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

Barbara is a very nice and ethical breeder. Her dogs are her family and as she did state, she is constantly working her dogs. If I wanted the lines that she has and breeds, I have NO question that I would go to her for a dog.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

she has gorgeous dogs, congrats on your new upcoming addition,,cant wait to see which one you all will be getting


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Update: We will be getting our pup on Wednesday. And just for the record, she did switch her pick for us as the personalities became more clear. They are 8 weeks old now, and she has picked out the perfect one for us. We are very excited!

I will be posting a new picture thread next week once we have him...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

can't wait to see her !!!


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