# Pup coming home to dog aggressive 2 y/o GDS



## fireman3571 (May 23, 2009)

I Have a baby girl GSD coming home in about 3 weeks. I have posted before on the 2 y/o male GSD that I now have partial custody of due to a divorce. I am looking for thoughts and advise on how to introduce them because the boy has shown some dog aggressive behavior and I don't want to hurt or traumatize the pup. I am going to post my emails back and forth from the breeder and just want to hear others opinions. I have gotten some great advice from this forum in the past and look forward to sharing and learning as my new pup grows up. 

Here is my email to the breeder-

I love the videos and pictures of the pups! It looks like their personalities are starting to come out. I can't wait to bring one of the little girls home! I plan on following the diet that you have listed on your website and happened to notice that the dog food is sold at Farm City feed store which is right here in my home town of Apopka, FL. I was planning on posting on germanshepherd.com for some advise on introducing the new pup to my ex-wife's 2 year old GSD who has a tendency to be dog aggressive (as well as cat)! I also wanted to get your opinion on that as well. They will probably spend quite a bit of time together as well as the 5 year old corgi who will be no problem. I was also thinking of getting an outside only cat as well as some sort of livestock and wonder if I should get those before I bring the pup home or if it really matters. I probably already told you but I have five acres and it is cross fenced and set up for horses, cows, or goats. Not going to do the horse thing but maybe a couple cows or goats. I would like to train the dog to herd them so she will truly be a working GSD. If you have some time in the near future give me a call so I can discuss this with you. Again, love the updates. Keep them coming!
Thanks, 

Breeder reply-

Right now what I'm seeing is the 2 big girls are both alpha's....VERY drivey, aggressive and rambunctious!
The small girl is SUPER intelligent, she is the first to do everything and investigates anything new she sees, she seems to be more focused with a longer attention span.
She is also drivey but in spurts, not as extreme as the 2 big ones.
She is about 2-1/2 pounds lighter then the other 2 but she's a fighter....doesn't let the others push her around.

* All 3 have umbilical hernias (not very big) from their mother biting to low on the their cords when they were born.
Mother is also VERY persistent when she cleans them which doesn't help.
She has a history of doing this. The hernias will usually close up on their own as the puppies grow.
If they are still a little open they can be fixed the same time as the puppy gets spayed, or it can be done before then if the vet thinks it's necessary.
I'll get my vets opinion when I bring them in for their first shots and health certificates at 7.5 weeks. 

Is your ex's GSD a male or female?
What is the reason for the older dogs aggression?
- Health related?
- Genetic?
- Lack of early socialization?
It's important to recognize why the dog is aggressive so you can deal with it properly in regards to the puppy.
The best advice that I can give you is to make sure that the puppy and the aggressive dog are not left alone unsupervised.
The worst thing to happen would be for the puppy to get injured and or traumatized at a young age. 
Introduce them very slowly and do not show more attention to the puppy, it can cause jealousy with the older one but caution is strongly advised.
I wouldn't anticipate there being any problems with the Corgi, the pup will out grow it in no time.

Outdoor cats = fleas and tics....keep an eye on that.

My reply-

The 2 y/o GSD is a male. He is great with people, but very vocal. High pitched barks when visitors come until he gets attention. My ex-wife is working with him on that and making great progress. She has taught him the No Bark command and seems to be working well. Also letting people know not to reinforce the behavior by petting him when he does that. We worked with a professional dog trainer with him from about six months old to about a year and a half. He had lots of socialization during this time and was worked in lots of public places. I do think he has experienced some stress with the divorce situation (finalized 4 months ago) and his vet wants to put him on Prozac! His problem is when he sees or meets a new dog his hackles go up and he barks and lunges aggressively. He can be brought under control with the No and Down command and then he will meet and greet and generally be able to be turned loose and have a good time. I have done this at the dog park with and with out the trainer and with and with out a shock collar. It is just the initial meeting that seems to freak him out and then he is fine. I don't trust him with small dogs though because I think things could get ugly quick. At least with a dog similar to his size there is time to break things up before things get to out of control. Luckily the dog park close to home has a small and large dog area. He plays rough with the corgi but she gives it right back to him when she has had enough and he will back off some, though still thinks its fun to get her all riled up. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know about that in case it has any bearing on which pup might be the right fit for me. I will be very careful when introducing them and defiantly have the male restrained. Maybe even muzzle him for the first few meetings if you think that would be appropriate. Thanks for your time and look forward to hearing back from you on this.

The breeder is an excellent one and has been highly recommended on this board as well as elsewhere. I just wanted to hear some thoughts on what people here think. Also would like to find some friends here interested in staying in touch via pm's so I can raise this girl to be the perfect dog. 

Thanks in advance for all advice and thoughts.

P.S. both dogs are german show lines but from different breeders.


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## fireman3571 (May 23, 2009)

*oops!*

Title should of read GSD


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Before I brought Lakota home last year I thought I was going to have a problem with my 2 older dogs. I went back to my trainer with both dogs, they were fine with the other dogs in class. My male was 7-1/2 and my female was 6 so they are pretty set in thier ways, but we brushed up on the basics. I made sure I took them out everyday like we always do. They were fine with the baby. My male and her didn't bond at first, she bonded with my female right away and she was the one I thought I'd have a problem with. It can be pretty nerve wracking at first.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

i have a 6 y/o "aggressive" shep mix. i worked on it though so she has no more issues-she now ignores other dogs except if they come up to her and get right into her face aggressively. i was worried about the puppy since like i said...she ignores/doesn't care for other dogs. the two get along really good. she definitely needs her "me time" though. I take her on a long run every other morning so she can be with me. i always pet her first and feed her first. i leave them together alone in the car when i goto the grocery store and haven't had problem one. i wouldn't leave them alone at home though-i put him in his crate.

i was very worried and it ended up being okay  sometimes she's even the one to initiate play time


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I honestly wouldn't take in a new puppy with an existing dog-aggressive dog. I guess it depends on how severe the aggression is but you are going to have your hands full training a new puppy and trying to correct the behavior of your adult dog. Also there is the issue of the puppy being potentially injured. My female was dog-aggressive a few years back and we worked with a private trainer to get her stable before bringing home our pup. I can't fathom dealing with the two of them at the same time. Another person I know who has a dog-aggressive dog brought home a puppy and the dog attacked the puppy the first day leaving a nasty scar on top of the pup's head. I'm not saying the two can't co-exist peacefully I just think it's going to take a LOT of work on your part.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Honestly, its not something anyone can really tell you 'what' to do..Some dog aggressive dogs are ok with puppies, some are not. 

The only thing I can say is be extremely careful because an adult dog could easily kill a small puppy who will not know any better ..

Since you share custody of the adult dog, who is he living with the majority of the time?


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## webzpinner (Mar 7, 2011)

fuzzybunny said:


> I honestly wouldn't take in a new puppy with an existing dog-aggressive dog. I guess it depends on how severe the aggression is but you are going to have your hands full training a new puppy and trying to correct the behavior of your adult dog. Also there is the issue of the puppy being potentially injured. My female was dog-aggressive a few years back and we worked with a private trainer to get her stable before bringing home our pup. I can't fathom dealing with the two of them at the same time. Another person I know who has a dog-aggressive dog brought home a puppy and the dog attacked the puppy the first day leaving a nasty scar on top of the pup's head. I'm not saying the two can't co-exist peacefully I just think it's going to take a LOT of work on your part.


You gotta be very careful whenever introducing ANY dog to a new dog. Remember that it's not a human being, but an animal that at it's core needs 3 things: food, water, territory. When you intro a new puppy, it's competition for all 3, in the primal mind of the dog. I've known people who had a 10 yr old, super arthritic dog that barely moved from the couch unless it was food or potty time. The people decided to transition to a new dog and adopted a puppy. 3 weeks went by without ANY incidents above a little grumbling by the adult dog, but no snapping, barking, aor growling. Things were looking fine. One day, everyone was in the living room, watching tv and just chillin'. Little puppy was gnawing on his puppy chewy, the old adult slowly got up, and lumbered towards the puppy. Puppy rolled over, in submission, but the older dog just grabbed the puppy by the neck, shook it, and that was it. Killed the puppy before the owners could stop it. Older dog NEVER showed agression to other dogs at dog parks, at friends' houses, etc. Because of the incident, scared the owners, and they put the older dog to sleep, worried that the dog was having mental breakdown issues (he was part Doberman).

So it's not always dog-agressive dogs to worry about.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Honestly, its not something anyone can really tell you 'what' to do..Some dog aggressive dogs are ok with puppies, some are not.
> 
> The only thing I can say is be extremely careful because an adult dog could easily kill a small puppy who will not know any better ..



This. I would follow a pretty strict protocol introducing the new pup to the dog. I would be sure the situation was always very controlled...which is not always easy to do with just one person. I follow a modifed version of this- Leerburg | Introducing a Dog into a Home with other Dogs

I have a dog aggressive dog that comes from early trauma with other dogs as a puppy. He doesn't go after dogs but will react when they get in his space. Puppies are notorious for this.

When we bring pups home we always start by introducing through the crate. Feeding the puppy treats outside the crate and the big dog through the crate. At first the big dog will growl at the puppy. Usually within 2-3 days the big dog completely relaxes with the puppy by his crate, and even offers kisses. 

At this point I feel comfortable having husband and I take the 2 on a walk. On leash it easy to keep puppy off of big dog, and big dog focused on the walk and not the puppy. It is helpful that big dog has been taught to not be reactive on leash to nearby dogs for competition reasons. Once everyone looks perfectly comfortable with this...Only then will I move to offlead. And that usually happens in the yard- NOT the house. I find the house way too confining. The yard gives the dogs more options to escape if they are uncomfortable. I also am lucky that my big dog is very ball focused and will usually at this point ignore the puppy in order to play ball with me. If he's got a ball in his mouth and is focused on me he will likely not destroy the puppy. 

It takes time but my dog does warm up to the puppies and is actually very tolerant once he's properly introduced.

My advice is to not rush it and at all times PROTECT the pup. Even if it means the 2 can't be together and you must crate and rotate...the worst thing that could happen would be for your puppy to get attacked.


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## fireman3571 (May 23, 2009)

Thanks for the comments so far. Cody lives with my ex almost exclusively. I watch him sometimes when she goes out of town for a day or two, but we both spend a lot of time at each others houses, (it's complicated :wub I do think Cody will accept the pup as part of the pack its just that initial meeting and the rough play that will surely ensue.  Any one ever heard of prozac for a dog? It sounds kinda strange to me but the ex is going to get him started on it. He is a very obedient dog so I think once we get the initial meeting out of the way some strict supervision of play will be in order until the pup is bigger and stronger. He plays rough with the corgi but has never gotten so rough to cause injury. I know I have a few weeks to plan this all out but I'm thinking both on leashes with the corgi (mama dog) off leash. Maybe on neutral ground somewhere other than my or my ex's house.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'd be careful also of having "3" dogs in the mix when you do your first introductions.

It can get 'iffy', when you have multiple dogs,,for example,,when I had two males, both neutered who never tiffed a day in their lives, I brought in a female puppy, well one of the males decided that no one was going near HIS puppy, needless to say, I had my first dog fight going on, nothing horrible and it didn't happen again, but sometimes "3" is a crowd..

when I bring home a puppy (and I've always had multiple dogs),,I let them investigate the backyard first,,I then hold the puppy, sit in a chair outside, and let the 'crew' out..yes they sniff and check out the puppy, and then my husband usually distracts them by playing their fav games with the adults..Puppy watches, and may want to join in, but it's very controlled and supervised..if I even "think" they are looking cross eyed at a puppy I bring in,,I am on top of it..

Luckily I've never had a bad experience introducing a puppy into the pack. But I know you always have to be viligant in order to protect that puppy. 

Neutral ground 'may' be good, but if he's dog aggressive, neutral ground may work opposite to what you want to achieve. 

Sorry I don't have any real good suggestions for you, but do hope it works out ok


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

He may be just fine with a puppy, but I'd definitely introduce him very carefully and independent of the corgi..

Good luck, there's nothing like a puppy!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

modern times - how do you have partial custody of the dog? Does this mean that the dog goes back and forth to different environments and a different set of rules. That can be stressful to the dog whose comfort zone is in consistency. What if every effort you make to bring the dog around gets undone with a set of different rules , being lax , even unknowingly promoting a problem ?
Maybe part of the solution would be to get the "aggressive (fearful)" dog settled to be with one home only? 
I would be so careful with the young pup . Damage is not only physical but emotional development . The new pup could easily be driven into the ground as the permanent underdog -- and that is a tough place to be . 
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## fireman3571 (May 23, 2009)

Hi Carmspack,
Cody is the ex's dog. He stays at her place 95% of the time. I am there quite a bit tho and she is at my place quite a bit too, we have two kids too. We are both pretty in sync with the set of rules. All three dogs will spend quite a bit of time together so I am sure they will eventually be just fine. I am just looking for some advice on getting them to that point with out messing any of them up. :help:


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## webzpinner (Mar 7, 2011)

carmspack said:


> modern times - how do you have partial custody of the dog?
> Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


Her ex has the dog on schooldays, Easter, and thanksgiving. She get him weekends, christmas, new year, and Independence Day.
Monthly puppy support payments of $200 are deducted automatically from her paycheck for food, collars, toys, and textbooks to chew on. 

Seriously... I had a coworker who broke up with her college beau, snuck into his backyard and stole his lab. He ignored the dog, she loved it, so she figured it was the least he could do for treating her like a human mattress for 4 years.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Do NOT NOT NOT let "rough play" happen with this older dog and a puppy. NO!!! I would also suggest that one or the other be in the crate for a long time - weeks! when they are in the same house. That puppy gets rolled or nipped by an adult adn you have a potentially fear induced dog aggressive female on your hands. Keep that male on lead and under control until they are both very accepting/complacent. 

If this is truly an "alpha" pup (and I doubt it -as real alpha dogs are not that common!) then your problems will compound quickly. Frankly, I would not put a new puppy in that situation if it were my litter.

Lee


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## fireman3571 (May 23, 2009)

Ok well I appreciate the advice and comments and want everyone to know that I will in no way endanger the pup. I think the suggestion of having the pup in my lap as cody is introduced is the way I will start the introduction. He will be on a leash with my ex on the other end and we will see how it goes. I am probably making more of a big deal of it than what it will be. Thanks everyone and I will update after the first encounter. Maybe even video it and post it. I bring her home on the 18th of this month and will spend some time with just me, her and my kids while she gets adjusted to her new home.


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