# Raising dogs in the 1960s Poor owners, better behaved dogs



## Stevenzachsmom

I have thought about this often and have seen similar comments from time to time. I figured I would start a thread to get some input.

I grew up in the 1960's, in Baltimore City. We were bad dog owners. We broke every rule. Our puppies came home by 6 weeks of age. We fed crap food. Our dogs lived outside. By WE I mean the entire city, not just my family. Dogs were only brought inside during extreme weather. We lived in row homes and our dogs ran up and down the fence line together and barked together. Once in a while someone would yell, "Shut Up!" out their window.

I walked through the alleys to my grandmother's house. I knew every dog in every yard. I knew them by name. I petted each one. They were all friendly - whether I pet them over the fence, under the fence, or through the fence. I don't know if there were obedience classes or behaviorists in the 1960s. If there were, I don't know anyone who ever used them. We didn't have the internet and television had three black and white stations. We had a library and we read books.

Sometimes, dogs got out of their yards. When they did, they didn't run around attacking children and other dogs. I don't remember a single horror story from my childhood of a dog attack. So what has changed? We took pups that were too young to be taken, undersocialized them, underexercised them and yet we didn't see the behavioral issues. Despite their poor quality of care, they also seemed to live longer.

If you are old like me, you may have grown up with similar experiences. Please weigh in. I would love to hear opinions.


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## Gretchen

When I was a child, I do not remember anybody going to dog training, and yes, there seemed to be no food issues. But we did make our dogs some doggie stews with giblets and vegetables. Having a dog was not very popular as it is today. Our backyards were large, so many people did not get out and walk their dogs so much, unless you lived in a place like NYC.

About behavior: we had a pure bred Beagle (1969) - looked like a show dog, but was not trained well and did get aggressive and bit people including me. I blame this on my clueless parents, they did not put any effort into him. He had a stroke at 12 yrs and we put him down shortly after. When I was 15 yrs old, got a pit, terrier, lab mix. I trained him myself. He was very well socialized, but still had occasional issues with aggression once he got to be about 2 yrs old. Everyone loved him, I moved and left him with my family. He died young, 9 yrs of cancer.

My next door neighbors had a GSD, they were born in Germany. Their 1st GSD looked like it was from Europe, straight back, strong and stocky female. We had lots of quiet time together, just standing next to each other at our common fence. Their next GSD must have been ASL (early 1970's), male with very sloped back. He paced back and forth constantly. I liked the female better. This family did no training, no did they ever walk their dogs. My friend had a Great Dane and another neighbor had a Collie that looked like Lassie that I loved. A block away someone had a Chihuahua that was just as nasty as they are today.

Overall in my experience, the dogs did not behave better, but they certainly seemed healthier - no allergies, diarrhea, physical defects, seldom did we go to the vet other than vaccinations.


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## Bear GSD

I grew up in the 60's and while I did not own any dogs as a child, my best friend had a GSD named "Prince". I think that back then the dogs ate what they were given because that was all they were going to get, no special treats or cookies. They were better behaved because quite frankly they were not given the option not to. We were in a different time frame training wise and did not have the training tools that we have today. 

I also think that back then they didn't go out of their way to socialize dogs and have doggie get togethers at "dog parks". I think because of this dogs back then didn't have the opportunity to get aggressive to a certain extent.
The way I see it is that now a days we have come to humanize our beloved dogs and treat them as though they are our children. Don't get me wrong, I love my dog and not having had one when I was a child it is a very special thing for me now, but I just think that in today's society we have elevated them to a different status and spoil them to where it creates misbehaviour problems.

Believe me I think that the way we treat our dogs in terms of training and socialization and food is much better than it was back then. I just think it was a completely different time...look at how our children have evolved, some for the better, some not.


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## martemchik

Dog's don't attack people any more than they did back then. We tend not to remember the bad moments or bad events in life unless they were HUGE (assassinations, 9/11). We remember the good times, and the happy moments. I don't believe that there are THAT many dog attacks. You just hear about them faster and louder these days due to facebook and twitter. At the same time...back then...if your dog bit someone, it probably got taken out back and shot, or put down right away. There weren't people willing to put up with those types of behaviors. Any type of aggression was probably generally dealt with in that way, rather than letting a dog live out its life in a kennel.

A local dog attack in New York would never be news in the Midwest...but now due to facebook, everyone knows about it. I get amazed that I have people from Wisconsin sharing "lost dog" posts from California...like...what's the point of that? The dog is NOT in Wisconsin...lol.

The sickness thing...people are sicker than we were 50 years ago...and only because they have a disease for everything now. And they come up with medication to sell you for everything now. Same with pets...more disposable income...more people going to vets to figure out why their pet is itching too much, or pooping too much, or whatever too much. Back in the day...you just had a dog that liked to scratch a lot.

No one went to training because there weren't that many "pet" training places. People didn't have the money to spend on training a dog. Now there is more disposable income and so more people take their dog to training to get it to sit, stay, down. People saw a business opportunity...there was money to be made...and they took advantage of it. They sold a new idea...no longer is pet training only for the "problem" dogs...its now for all dogs. There are probably hundreds of businesses open right now that weren't even an industry 50 years ago.


I'm not old...only been around a couple decades...but that's just the facts of human advancement and psychology.


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## marbury

Well, yeah. Same reason good ol' farm dogs are good ol' farm dogs. If they weren't, they were shot. There wasn't so much 'breeding for looks' or 'breeding for extremes'. "Pet shop puppies" weren't available at every strip mall.
All the 'best' dogs we see at our vet clinic are farm dogs. A guy in overalls who comes in with his mutt using his belt as a leash... that's going to be a good dog. They never give us trouble. Smile at you while you draw blood, lick your hand when you trim their toenails. Don't flinch when you give shots. Almost every single 'show dog' that comes through is a prissy, high-strung pain to deal with. They bite, they carry on in the kennels, and the owners won't let us do our jobs for their pet. And I can say that because I'm part of that group; all my colleagues don't believe I show my dogs because they're not over-pampered pets.

People are trying so hard now a days to force any dog to fit into their lifestyle. When I was a kid, every family had a lab mix or a retriever mix or a shepherd mix that just... was good. Never crate trained but never pottied inside, never chewed up anything, trusted with all the neighborhood kids, never on leash but always stuck around the yard.
I also think training and attitude has changed. In my day, if a dog stole a hotdog at the block party he got a thump from whomever was closest and that was that. Dog dropped hotdog, everybody laughed, party went on. Now people would call animal control on an 'abuser' if a neighbor smacked someone else's dog.

Good post. I'm interested to see how this snowballs, I'd love to hear others views.


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## Ares God Of War

a completely different time...look at how our children have evolved, some for the better, some not.[/QUOTE]

Wow so true!


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## kiya

Life was much simpler back then. My grandma used to feed the dogs Alpo. I know I was always outside playing, running around with which ever dog she let me have. Kids today sit inside playing video games. You probably didn't hear of all the dog bites because everone wasn't as sue crazy as they are these days.


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## Ocean

I don't really trust people's memories as a child because of brain development and children don't have the responsibility of adults and weren't party to a lot of the tough decisions our parents made.

We lived in acreage though it was part of the country that was being turned from farms into large suburban parcels owned by doctors, lawyers, etc. It was also next to several hundred acres of park land. People were constantly dumping unwanted dogs and cats in our property. My whole family were animal lovers and me and my siblings always tried to adopt all the dumped animals, but at some point my parents just had to stop us. To this day, I don't know what tough decisions they had to make.

We also had a small mix adopted by my older sister that got torn to pieces by a neighbor's German Shepherds. Nobody had fenced yards. As kids we knew there were houses in the neighborhood to avoid because they had nasty dogs.

One thing that was different though is that people's expectations of dogs were different. At one point or another, me and my siblings and all the kids in the neighborhood experienced a bite from a dog. No big deal. Dogs bite if you do something stupid. Kids do stupid things. Nobody sued. 

My parents didn't march up to the neighbor with the GSDs to complain about their dogs. Dogs could attack and hurt other dogs because they entered their territory. People understood that. Dogs were well socialized because people had no fences and didn't walk their dogs on a leash. Puppies growing up encountered the older dogs in the neighborhood and all the kids just by being out in their yard. 

Lots of dogs and cats got run over. A dog that did not learn to become car sure became a Darwinian casualty. People did not spend that much on vets and lots of dogs died young. People remember all the dogs that lived old but tend to forget the ones that didn't.


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## Stevenzachsmom

martemchik said:


> Dog's don't attack people any more than they did back then. We tend not to remember the bad moments or bad events in life unless they were HUGE (assassinations, 9/11). We remember the good times, and the happy moments. I don't believe that there are THAT many dog attacks. You just hear about them faster and louder these days due to facebook and twitter. At the same time...back then...if your dog bit someone, it probably got taken out back and shot, or put down right away. There weren't people willing to put up with those types of behaviors. Any type of aggression was probably generally dealt with in that way, rather than letting a dog live out its life in a kennel.
> 
> A local dog attack in New York would never be news in the Midwest...but now due to facebook, everyone knows about it. I get amazed that I have people from Wisconsin sharing "lost dog" posts from California...like...what's the point of that? The dog is NOT in Wisconsin...lol.
> 
> The sickness thing...people are sicker than we were 50 years ago...and only because they have a disease for everything now. And they come up with medication to sell you for everything now. Same with pets...more disposable income...more people going to vets to figure out why their pet is itching too much, or pooping too much, or whatever too much. Back in the day...you just had a dog that liked to scratch a lot.
> 
> No one went to training because there weren't that many "pet" training places. People didn't have the money to spend on training a dog. Now there is more disposable income and so more people take their dog to training to get it to sit, stay, down. People saw a business opportunity...there was money to be made...and they took advantage of it. They sold a new idea...no longer is pet training only for the "problem" dogs...its now for all dogs. There are probably hundreds of businesses open right now that weren't even an industry 50 years ago.
> 
> I'm not old...only been around a couple decades...but that's just the facts of human advancement and psychology.



It was already obvious to me that you never lived in the 60s. I'm not talking about nationwide dog attacks. I'm talking about where I lived in Baltimore. We sat on our porches and congregated at the neighborhood store. Nothing happened in our community that we didn't know about. If there had been a vicious dog attack, we would know. And even 50 years ago, you couldn't shoot your dog in Baltimore City.

Don't tell me everything was rosy and that's all that I would remember. I remember just fine. I remember when I was 6 and my best friend was killed by a drunk driver. I remember every detail right down to the exact words spoken by her brother and the look of anguish on the face of the drunk mans' young son. Likewise, I still remember the names and breeds of my old neighborhood dogs. The only troublemaker was Beetle. He was a large mix, escaped his yard frequently and bullied the other dogs. I remember that he was hit by a car and I remember his teenage owner crying. I am quite certain I would remember a vicious dog attack.

Baltimore City today - same neighborhood, there are vicious dog attacks. I'm not talking about a single bite or a nip. I'm talking about attacks. I can still get this information the same way I did in the 1960s. It's called a newspaper. 

It wasn't lack of money that kept people from training. We weren't poor. It would never have occurred to us to go to obedience class, even if there was such a thing. Of course there are new industries today. My point is that in my day they did NOT exist and we did quite fine without them. Vet care was not as expensive as today. We took our pets when they needed to go. If anything, I would expect dogs to live longer now than they did in the 60s. Are you saying people are sicker and do not live as long? That has also not been my experience.


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## Vinnie

Well I grew up a bit later than the 1960s but…..

First dog I remember as a child was a big white Samoyed. We use to climb all over her and she was the calmest most patient dog. You can’t do that now-a-days or people scream what an awful parent and irresponsible dog owner you are but it was common back then. Dogs were expected back then to be good around small children. 

I remember feeding dogs Purina or some other cheap grocery store dog food (Gaines Burgers, Gravy Train, Kibbles n Bits, Ol’Roy, Alpo etc.) before we moved on to the high-quality stuff, IAMs. We gave milk bones as treats and to help clean teeth. We also regularly fed table scraps. It was not common to bring our dogs to the vet for annual check-ups or annual vaccines. You just vaccinated when they were young and made vet appointments when there was something wrong. There was no such thing as heartworm preventatives. We used flea/tick “collars” not frontline. We never owned a crate. The dogs played with tennis balls and sticks. Our dogs did live in the house. The dog park was our back yard. We had a lot of land when I was young and we kids did spend many hours outside with our dogs. My mom’s poodle (Mitzy) was a “retired” circus dog she adopted from the Humane Society (so yes there were animal shelters back then and unwanted pets being dumped). Mitzy did have a lot of formal training and knew a lot of fun tricks that my mom liked to entertain her guests with when she’d have a social party. My dad’s GSD (Satin) was also very well trained. I believe my father trained her but I’m not sure if he took her to any formal training classes. My dad was an old horse trainer and I think he just knew how to train. Of course today people would place his methods of training in the dreaded “compulsion” training classification. 

Mom and Dad always had at least 2 dogs when I was growing up. Mom always picked up her dogs from the Humane Society and I remember going with her to pick out a dog. I remember one poodle she adopted that had terrible seizures and was PTS shortly after mom brought her home. Today, they probably wouldn't do that. There's medicine for seizures now. Dad’s dog Satin lived to be almost 16 (maybe over 16) so he always had her while I was growing up. 

I don’t know if I think owners are any better/worse than back then. Times have changed we have learned more about our canine companions. Like we have learned we can’t feed our dogs as if they are livestock. Some things are improvements some are not. Some things are more geared towards someone else making money at the dog’s expense. Those things are not better IMO.


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## martemchik

Stevenzachsmom said:


> It was already obvious to me that you never lived in the 60s. I'm not talking about nationwide dog attacks. I'm talking about where I lived in Baltimore. We sat on our porches and congregated at the neighborhood store. Nothing happened in our community that we didn't know about. If there had been a vicious dog attack, we would know. And even 50 years ago, you couldn't shoot your dog in Baltimore City.
> 
> Don't tell me everything was rosy and that's all that I would remember. I remember just fine. I remember when I was 6 and my best friend was killed by a drunk driver. I remember every detail right down to the exact words spoken by her brother and the look of anguish on the face of the drunk mans' young son. Likewise, I still remember the names and breeds of my old neighborhood dogs. The only troublemaker was Beetle. He was a large mix, escaped his yard frequently and bullied the other dogs. I remember that he was hit by a car and I remember his teenage owner crying. I am quite certain I would remember a vicious dog attack.
> 
> Baltimore City today - same neighborhood, there are vicious dog attacks. I'm not talking about a single bite or a nip. I'm talking about attacks. I can still get this information the same way I did in the 1960s. It's called a newspaper.
> 
> It wasn't lack of money that kept people from training. We weren't poor. It would never have occurred to us to go to obedience class, even if there was such a thing. Of course there are new industries today. My point is that in my day they did NOT exist and we did quite fine without them. Vet care was not as expensive as today. We took our pets when they needed to go. If anything, I would expect dogs to live longer now than they did in the 60s. Are you saying people are sicker and do not live as long? That has also not been my experience.


Well where I live in Milwaukee...we don't have any vicious dog attacks that I hear of on the news. The only dog attacks I hear about are on Facebook where people over react to a small, one sided, terribly biased, article that leaves out 75% of the information.

Your friend getting killed by a drunk driver...is considered a HUGE event by most people's standards, so you'll remember it. You'll remember names of dogs because they were good dogs, you remember the bad dog BECAUSE it got hit by a car and you have a story to remember about that dog. If you just had a non-stop barking dog that looked vicious, you probably wouldn't remember it. If you had more than one of those dogs in your neighborhood they'd all roll together into one and you wouldn't remember them individually. You might've remembered a vicious dog attack if it happened to one of your friends...the likelihood of you remembered a dog attack that happened to a stranger, on the other side of the city, or even in the next neighborhood over, is very small. It's human nature, why do you get so defensive about it?

I'm only 24 and I don't remember any of the bad things that happened to me from 6-14. I only remember the happy times, playing sports in the field with my friends, playing video games, having fun. I don't remember any of the times I fell off a bike, or scraped a knee.

Sorry that it upsets you...but its proven and tested theory that humans have a much easier time remembering good memories over bad ones (unless they're extreme). Like I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing on 9/11...but I don't remember much about the rest of the year as nothing else really happened in my life then.

I was also not calling you poor...I was talking about having more DISPOSABLE income. Money to spend on things that aren't as important. This is why we have better dog food now, and better training...people are willing to spend money on these things. In the 60s they weren't. Just think of how much more crap the average American family has today that they didn't have in the 60s. Things are also much much cheaper with regards to salary and inflation than they were back then. If I compare myself/my salary to a college educated 24 year old from the 60s...I have a lot more today than they did back then.

We've had more than a few threads like this..."I remember when I was younger I had the perfect GSD...blah blah blah" Well when you're a kid, you really don't remember or realize what your parents do when it comes to true responsibilities. Chances are...they trained the dogs much more than we realize.

Also...people aren't sicker...they just have names and medications for more diseases than there were in the 60s. The magic purple pill is one that comes to mind...I'm pretty sure that in the 60s that wasn't considered a medical problem and was just ignored...just like many other diseases or problems. ADD/ADHD just to name a couple more. These days there are medicines for more things because more is understood about issues, rather than ignored and swept under the table.


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## Good_Karma

I was born in 1976 so am too young to have personal experience in this, but I have read opinions on this exact topic. What the author (and forgive me, I don't recall the name or the book so you will just have to trust my recollection) said was that back in the day, the dog was let out in the morning to roam. He got his exercise, his social interaction with other dogs and people, he sniffed stuff, he marked wherever, he pooped where he wanted to, he ate whatever appealed to that he came across. In other words he had a very full and enriching day that satisfied his physical and mental needs.

Fast forward to today where we have a lot more laws restricting the natural behavior of dogs (roaming, foraging, eliminating bodily wastes). Now normal dog behaviors are "problems". We restrict them more and more and wonder why they find other outlets, which are also problems, this time with more negative consequences (in house destruction, barking, obsessive behaviors, short tempers).

The fault lies, I believe, with trying to turn dogs into small humans in hair suits. It is completely selfish of us to try to stuff these animals into little boxes that conveniently fit into our lifestyles, which are increasingly busy with work or screen time or raising children.


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## Gretchen

martemchik said:


> Sorry that it upsets you...but _*its proven and tested theory that humans have a much easier time remembering good memories over bad ones *_(unless they're extreme). Like I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing on 9/11...but I don't remember much about the rest of the year as nothing else really happened in my life then.
> 
> .


I have to disagree. I mostly remember the bad and have had to force myself to remember the good to get a balanced perspective of my childhood. If you talk to my mother, her childhood is all negative. Here is some evidence from the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/y...e-than-positive-ones.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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## StephenV

I grew up in the 60's and have good and bad dog memories. As a toddler climbing over the fence to pet my grandparents **** dogs - I remember my uncle pulling me off the fence once, saying, Boy, those dogs will eat you up. But they didn't, they were so happy for some attention. It was all wagging tails and happy faces. They were in a pen out in the yard with nothing but half buried 55 gallon barrels and a little straw inside for them to sleep on. I'm sure if I had been a raccoon it would have been another story. 
Another time I was in grade school and found a stray dog after school. While I waited for my mom to pick me up, we became best pals, or so I thought, until I tried to hug the dog. He struggled and bit me in the lip, I still have the scar. When I explained my bloody lip to my mom when she arrived, there was a worried conversation with the school teacher. Animal control was called and the dog was picked up and tested for rabies (negative). I still feel guilty about that. When I was 15 I remember having to carry our 16 year old blind and incontinent terrier in my arms to the vet to be put down because no one else in the family could handle it. In the 70's I remember our purebred poodle almost losing his leg from a dog attack over a female dog in heat because we did not have a fence and he was not fixed. He regained almost total use of his leg and lived to be 17, after a lifetime of chocolate treats and cheap supermarket dog food.


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## Jack's Dad

My experience was almost identical to Stevenzachsmom.

I grew up in Pasadena Calif., so the experiences were not just east coast.

The dogs that survived Distemper, Parvo, and automobiles were vastly more stable than the pampered brats ( dogs or kids) you see today. 

I am aware that anyone under thirty will think we only remember the good stuff and forget the not so good. Not so. You'll know that if you live long enough. 
When my kids were in their twenties they thought I didn't know anything. When they hit their thirties they started telling me, thanks dad, I just didn't understand until now.


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## martemchik

Gretchen said:


> I have to disagree. I mostly remember the bad and have had to force myself to remember the good to get a balanced perspective of my childhood. If you talk to my mother, her childhood is all negative. Here is some evidence from the NY Times.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/y...e-than-positive-ones.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


I'll agree that its easier to remember the "bad singular events" because overall life was and still is pretty good. Day to day...things were just fine. You remember bad events that happened to you, close friends, family. But you don't really remember terrible news stories that happened to strangers half way around the world, or even things that happened in your own city. Some people do...but in general, if someone asks you about an even that happened in your city 10+ years ago...you wouldn't even be able to figure out the year it happened unless it directly affected you in some way.

If I think about "dog attacks" right now...I can't remember any that have happened in my life. No neighbors ever had a vicious dog, the city I grew up in never had any issues, my current city doesn't really have any issues. Maybe a 2 minute news blip here or there, a smaller town just outside of Milwaukee just tried to have a pitbull ban that was struck down, but overall I can't remember any dog attack in the last year or two.


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## jae

By no means have am I anywhere near having lived in the 60s. But, I can only say that dogs are man's best friend, for many decades, centuries, eras, lifetimes. We have done just fine with them as they were, and the recent events are just another product of the times (rotten times, if you ask me) whether you look at the good or the bad. Dogs are always around, and will always be man's best friend, no matter how we treat them or train them or feed them.
I just think this is a wonderful topic, and would like to say, that the only thing I know of dogs of history are in books. To name a few...

Zhuhcka in Dostoevesky's "Brothers Karamazov", a boy's rescued, extremely trained, and best friend of a dog. No different than many stories I hear of nowadays.

Historical non-fiction, namely, Stephanitz' The GSD in Word and Picture. Many things remain unchanged from what he spells out. 

And of Mark Twain's "A Dog's Tale" just a great story about the wonders of a dog.

"..but its proven and tested theory that humans have a much easier time remembering good memories over bad ones" Some would argue this is called _repressing your memories_. But that's not what we're discussing.


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## Lilie

martemchik said:


> Dog's don't attack people any more than they did back then. We tend not to remember the bad moments or bad events in life unless they were HUGE (assassinations, 9/11). We remember the good times, and the happy moments.


Nope. I remember. I remember our dogs, most of our neighbor's dogs, friend's dogs...hec, I can even recall some of their names. I remember the good, and the bad. It was my youth that forged my love for dogs. 

My childhood was much like what the OP stated. The biggest difference that I see now when looking 'back then' is breeding. 

We didn't have designer dogs. Mutts weren't sold, they were always free. Nobody wanted their dogs to have puppies. It was too difficult to get rid of mutt dogs. Nobody wanted to bare the cost of raising puppies since there was no money to be had. 

There was no social media to market your pets. If you had puppies, you put an ad in the paper. That cost money. 

Anybody and go on CL now and mutt dogs are being sold for as much as the owner can get for them. If the dog is small or deemed 'tiny' - they'll ask for more. 

It's sad.


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## wolfy dog

I am from that era. Dogs pretty much roamed free in my village (read: Merle's Door from Ted Kerasote), had their own social life and weren't locked up in apartments all day. Problem dogs were shot, weak puppies didn't survive. And we didn't call them "our babies" or had to wear clothes. Most of them were intact, lived outside and didn't have many privileges.


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## Jack's Dad

A proven and tested theory like hormone replacement therapy for menopausal women or that cholesterol causes heart attacks.

My opinion which is not at all scientific is that we tend to remember major events or experiences whether good or negative.


Quote Jae"..but its proven and tested theory that humans have a much easier time remembering good memories over bad ones" Some would argue this is called _repressing your memories_. But that's not what we're discussing.[/quote]


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## Lilie

Good_Karma said:


> The fault lies, I believe, with trying to turn dogs into small humans in hair suits. It is completely selfish of us to try to stuff these animals into little boxes that conveniently fit into our lifestyles, which are increasingly busy with work or screen time or raising children.


Ain't that the truth!?! I remember being at a family reunion (hey, I was a child and I remember this!!!) and my dad's cousin and his wife brought a small dog with them. They had it wrapped in a baby blanket. Us 'kids' weren't allowed to play with it. We all thought that was utterly INSANE!!! We still call him the Crazy Cousin. 

Now you can buy blankets specifically for dogs. And dog purses to carry them in...etc...etc...


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## sparra

I don't think you even have to go back that far......I was born in the late 70's and it was different even then growing up with dogs.
Dogs were allowed to be dogs and kids were allowed to be kids....and they still are here at our house.


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## Blanketback

How about this blast from the past:

"When the dog bites
When the bee stings
When I'm feeling sad
I simply remember my favorite things
And then I don't feel so bad"

Things were different then, alright. Nowadays if a dog bites, it's called a dangerous dog. Back then if a dog bit you, the first thing that would be asked is what you did to deserve it, lol.


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## Stevenzachsmom

You are wrong Martemchik. This is not another one of those, "I had the perfect dog" threads and Mom and Dad took care of the pet. My mother doesn't know a thing about dogs. My father brought my puppy home to me in his coat pocket. I was 4 years old. It was 1962. He was a beagle. He was the runt of the litter and a neurotic mess. He was MY dog. I was responsible for him. Dad worked all day. Mom didn't like dogs. Hard to believe someone would give a 4 year old a puppy, but that's the way it was. I did everything for him. I had him a lifetime, if you consider I was 21 when he died. 

It would be wonderful if we could only remember the good things. As Andy said, that just isn't true. I'm not sure everyone remembers things the way I do. I don't remember every event, or every date. I remember in pictures and I remember exact conversations. They are not necessarily very important, or good or bad, but I remember. My husband wishes I couldn't do this, because we have been together since we were teens. LOL! I cannot remember anything before the age of 4. After 4, my memories are very vivid. There are many things I wish I could forget, but that isn't going to happen.

I am not just talking about vicious attacks. If you read my first post, I am talking about dogs having more issues in general - food guarding, resource guarding, separation anxiety, DA, HA. etc.


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## sparra

Blanketback said:


> How about this blast from the past:
> 
> "When the dog bites
> When the bee stings
> When I'm feeling sad
> I simply remember my favorite things
> And then I don't feel so bad"
> 
> Things were different then, alright. Nowadays if a dog bites, it's called a dangerous dog. Back then if a dog bit you, the first thing that would be asked is what you did to deserve it, lol.


Haha....so true. I can remember my uncle had a dog who really disliked young children.....we were told "don't touch the dog....if you do he will bite you and it will be your fault for touching him" Never got bitten by him but he wasn't locked away from everyone.


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## sparra

martemchik said:


> Well where I live in Milwaukee...we don't have any vicious dog attacks that I hear of on the news. The only dog attacks I hear about are on Facebook where people over react to a small, one sided, terribly biased, article that leaves out 75% of the information.
> 
> Your friend getting killed by a drunk driver...is considered a HUGE event by most people's standards, so you'll remember it. You'll remember names of dogs because they were good dogs, you remember the bad dog BECAUSE it got hit by a car and you have a story to remember about that dog. If you just had a non-stop barking dog that looked vicious, you probably wouldn't remember it. If you had more than one of those dogs in your neighborhood they'd all roll together into one and you wouldn't remember them individually. You might've remembered a vicious dog attack if it happened to one of your friends...the likelihood of you remembered a dog attack that happened to a stranger, on the other side of the city, or even in the next neighborhood over, is very small. It's human nature, why do you get so defensive about it?
> 
> I'm only 24 and I don't remember any of the bad things that happened to me from 6-14. I only remember the happy times, playing sports in the field with my friends, playing video games, having fun. I don't remember any of the times I fell off a bike, or scraped a knee.
> 
> Sorry that it upsets you...but its proven and tested theory that humans have a much easier time remembering good memories over bad ones (unless they're extreme). Like I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing on 9/11...but I don't remember much about the rest of the year as nothing else really happened in my life then.
> 
> I was also not calling you poor...I was talking about having more DISPOSABLE income. Money to spend on things that aren't as important. This is why we have better dog food now, and better training...people are willing to spend money on these things. In the 60s they weren't. Just think of how much more crap the average American family has today that they didn't have in the 60s. Things are also much much cheaper with regards to salary and inflation than they were back then. If I compare myself/my salary to a college educated 24 year old from the 60s...I have a lot more today than they did back then.
> 
> We've had more than a few threads like this..."I remember when I was younger I had the perfect GSD...blah blah blah" Well when you're a kid, you really don't remember or realize what your parents do when it comes to true responsibilities. Chances are...they trained the dogs much more than we realize.
> 
> Also...people aren't sicker...they just have names and medications for more diseases than there were in the 60s. The magic purple pill is one that comes to mind...I'm pretty sure that in the 60s that wasn't considered a medical problem and was just ignored...just like many other diseases or problems. ADD/ADHD just to name a couple more. These days there are medicines for more things because more is understood about issues, rather than ignored and swept under the table.


What's your point??

Are we all imagining these things cause our memories are flawed???

In the last 20 years owning a dog has changed......not for you.....you are 24!!!


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## Discoetheque

Back then, it was just you and the dog. None of the bells and whistles that there are today. No hoopla over socialization or food ingredients. Most of what is most damaging to dogs today was absent back then. 
Today, I had a woman call me at work crying because she had to fill out a bite report. She had surrendered her dog to us after it tore her hand open while she was trying to leash it. She cried and bawled about how she bought the dog the best food ever and the best toys ever. The dog had her own bed, a section in the closet for clothing, and a kids' toy castle to play in. If she went out to eat, she would order the dog her own meal. She just could not understand how she could do all these things for the dog and the dog repay her with a laceration that went from wrist to knuckle. 

The dog had everything but structure. Humanization over the years, I think is the most damaging thing to our dogs. They were better behaved because we weren't inflicting all our neuroses on them or throwing unnecessary luxuries at them in exchange for pure and simple time with us and love.


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## Jack's Dad

Discoetheque said:


> Back then, it was just you and the dog. None of the bells and whistles that there are today. No hoopla over socialization or food ingredients. Most of what is most damaging to dogs today was absent back then.
> Today, I had a woman call me at work crying because she had to fill out a bite report. She had surrendered her dog to us after it tore her hand open while she was trying to leash it. She cried and bawled about how she bought the dog the best food ever and the best toys ever. The dog had her own bed, a section in the closet for clothing, and a kids' toy castle to play in. If she went out to eat, she would order the dog her own meal. She just could not understand how she could do all these things for the dog and the dog repay her with a laceration that went from wrist to knuckle.
> 
> The dog had everything but structure. Humanization over the years, I think is the most damaging thing to our dogs. They were better behaved because we weren't inflicting all our neuroses on them or throwing unnecessary luxuries at them in exchange for pure and simple time with us and love.


One of the top ten best posts ever.


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## katdog5911

I grew up in Brooklyn ny and things were very different as far as dogs go. We never paid for a dog. Always acquired them from someone or just brought home a stray. And there were a lot of strays. Dogs got walked several times a day. Or they escaped and ran around the neighborhood. As a kid I had the sense not to go right up to a strange dog. If I got bit it was assumed I did something to the dog. Alpo and left overs were food. No vet visits unless the dog was really sick. No training classes. Most dogs learned the basics. Yes there were vicious dogs but it was our responsibility to stay away from them. Definitely didn't see any purse puppies.


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## x11

i am a 70's child but in an area 20 years behind so i think i can still post on this. firstly not a single house ever had a fence around it, in fact nobody ever took the keys out of their car or locked the doors of their house or shut the windows. evryone had multiple dogs, nobody formally trained them, there were no such thing as dog breeders and nobody ever paid money for a dog, there were no training venues other than police, millitary and seeing-eye dogs but these were all invisible to the public. vets looked after cows and some expensive race horses and that was it. german shepherds were *illegal* in many areas as farmers thought they would mate with the wild dogs and breed wolf-like mass sheep killers. the only ones of us that got bit by dogs was when we provoked and teased them as a fun thing to do and when our parents foinund out we would get a slap in the head for teasing the dog, having said that tho unprovoked dogs that attacked other working dogs or people were simply shot and if it was deemed genetic in a line the line was culled. dogs ate table scraps or nothing. most dogs were crosses of EBT, ACD, kelpie and sight hound crosses for hunting. it was not unusual to drive around and see dogs you knew miles from home, they always found there way back to their own yard, dogs were never allowed in the house. looking back objectively there were some great working dogs and generally a lot of healthy happy pets. now i think the difference is a lucrative industry has emerged re solving pet problems and selling formal training systems, it appears they have magically created their own demand for themselves. i see a parrallel in modern psychology, people just dealt with stuff and got over it, now there is a new kind of ailment and "cure" every day, in fact it is unlikely you would find anyone in the developed world that doesn't fit some psychological diagnosis for some kind of mental afflicition. personally , i won't be and really do not want to be around in what i think the state of the world will be like in the medium/long term future.


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## Doc

I'm older than God's dog and my memory is ..... What was the question?


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## Capone22

Dogs back then were not spoiled like thy are now. They had more room to roam and had little privileges. And if they acted up they got knocked across the head. 


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## gsdsar

Love this topic!!

I am a child if 70's, but clearly remember the difference. 

I grew up with springer spaniels. Maggie and Holly. Wonderful dogs. Let out the front door in the morning and let back in at some point in the day. Holly was put down after getting into Rat poison. I was 5. Maggie was my childhood best friend. But I can't count how many times I ran to my mom with " MOOOOOM!!!! Maggie bit me!!!" Her response was ALWAYS, " what did you do to her?" Never had to go to the doctor or anything. But it taught me respect for the dog. 

As kids we used to go to neighbors and ask to play with their dogs. I remember Norman, the Basset Hound. And the Afgan Hounds that jumped their 8 foot fence to say hi to me. I remember the miniature schnauzer that showed up at my elementary school during recess. I recognized the dog as my neighbors, and my teacher let me leave school to walk the dog home. 

My grandparents neighbor had a German Shepherd. I would go over and ask to walk the dog when I was 8. She let me. He got away from 3x before she suggested she come with me. Never a big deal. No animals mauled by the dog, no kids frightened. He just went home. Was always there when I showed up crying. 

Got knocked down and "attacked" by another neighbors GSD when I was playing with it. Told my dad. He looked me over, said " your fine" and life went on. 

We fed our dogs Gaines Burgers and peanut butter and they had fleas. It was what it was. 

My mom still believes the same things. Aside from Holly, all if her dogs have lived well into their teens. Minimal vaccines, occasional baths, no socialization( unless I did it) no preventatives, mediocre food. 

But like someone said earlier, the world back then was a lot less sue happy than now. You got bit by a dog, you moved on. 

I miss those days. I am hyper aware of my dogs. My mom tells me all the time to " calm down, the dogs are fine"

When I had my last puppy, Ike (RIP) she would watch him during the day while I was at work. I got to her house one day to find he had a puncture wound on his cheek. She told me Boo, her ChowX got annoyed with him and bit him. I FREAKED OUT!!! Rushed him the vet. Spent countless dollars to hear he was fine. Her comment was " told ya so ". He was back there the next day. And learned his lesson. 

I remember the days if respecting when someone said "the dog will bite" you stayed away from said dog. 


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## MichaelE

Jack's Dad said:


> My experience was almost identical to Stevenzachsmom.
> 
> I grew up in Pasadena Calif., so the experiences were not just east coast.
> 
> The dogs that survived Distemper, Parvo, and automobiles were vastly more stable than the pampered brats ( dogs or kids) you see today.
> 
> I am aware that anyone under thirty will think we only remember the good stuff and forget the not so good. Not so. You'll know that if you live long enough.
> When my kids were in their twenties they thought I didn't know anything. When they hit their thirties they started telling me, thanks dad, I just didn't understand until now.


My experiences mirror both of yours, right down to the German couple that lived next door to us. They were first generation Germans that came to this country after WWI. They didn't have a dog though.

I do remember being 24 and thinking I knew everything then.


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## readaboutdogs

I grew up in the 60's, our yards were fenced, not too many loose dogs, but some. We played outside most of time so the dogs got more attn. that way,but most were not allowed in house. No special food or many vet trips. The vets were different then too, maybe just ours, more on the animals don't feel pain like us. I remember one of our dogs had an ear problem, he just took hold of the hair in his ears and pulled it out. Gave my mom something to put in his ears, we went home. My grandparents lived on a farm, I only remember one dog there, he wasn't there for years. They didn't like dogs around really, didn't like them around cattle, chickens, etc. they did have a few cats, few, they were useful, help with mice, rats, in the barn, never allowed in the house.i think most people know how too many kittens/pups would be taken care of in other times. I have many happy childhood memories, it was a simpler time, we didn't have much money, but had good "natural" foods, home grown a lot of it, homemade clothes, blankets. It was a lot of good times. Like going to the fabric store to pick out patterns and material for you Easter dress weeks before to prepare for the holiday. Not really done today. Yes, dogs, pets were not held in great regard as they are today, but it was a different time, and excepted by most as just how it is. I don't say this is good, my dogs are spoiled, live inside, and I look at it as my responsibility to make sure they are safe as well as neighbors.


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## doggiedad

i can relate to most of your story. i didn't grow up poor.
a lot of the dogs in my neighborhood were loose and free to
roam. when the mailman walked the streets he had 10 or
more dogs following him. some of the dogs went porch to porch
with him. some of the dogs followed him in the street. my neighbors
that lived across the street had a GSD. he bit me several times.
my parents told me to leave the dog alone, "dad, i was sitting on 
the porch and he broke through the screen door". my dad "don't sit on their
porch and bother the dog". lol.

my neighbor up the street had a Doberman (Tonka) that was out
all of the time. when the kids started fighting Tonka would grab
a kid by the pant leg or shirt tail and pull them apart.

then there was Mr. T the French poddle with the fancy
cut. he was snobby. he would sit on his porch for hours
and just watch life pass by.

my next door neighbors had a Collie that spent more time
on our porch than his.

food, i remember Alpo and Gravy Train.


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## onyx'girl

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I have thought about this often and have seen similar comments from time to time. I figured I would start a thread to get some input.
> 
> I grew up in the 1960's, in Baltimore City. We were bad dog owners. We broke every rule. Our puppies came home by 6 weeks of age. We fed crap food. Our dogs lived outside. By WE I mean the entire city, not just my family. Dogs were only brought inside during extreme weather. We lived in row homes and our dogs ran up and down the fence line together and barked together. Once in a while someone would yell, "Shut Up!" out their window.
> 
> I walked through the alleys to my grandmother's house. I knew every dog in every yard. I knew them by name. I petted each one. They were all friendly - whether I pet them over the fence, under the fence, or through the fence. I don't know if there were obedience classes or behaviorists in the 1960s. If there were, I don't know anyone who ever used them. We didn't have the internet and television had three black and white stations. We had a library and we read books.
> 
> Sometimes, dogs got out of their yards. When they did, they didn't run around attacking children and other dogs. I don't remember a single horror story from my childhood of a dog attack. So what has changed? We took pups that were too young to be taken, undersocialized them, underexercised them and yet we didn't see the behavioral issues. Despite their poor quality of care, they also seemed to live longer.
> 
> If you are old like me, you may have grown up with similar experiences. Please weigh in. I would love to hear opinions.


I grew up in the 60's. We lived on a lake and all the dogs were free to come and go where ever they pleased(even in other's homes), but they all knew their own home and families. They were all indoor dogs. We were outside most often as well, moms kicked us out in the morning and called us in at dark. Nothing to do inside, so out was the place to be.

No oops litters(though I do remember seeing dogs breeding when I was about 7-8, but that was way down the shoreline!) and I don't think many were into the spay/neuter or vaccinating back then. The food was Rival, and other brands, full of horse meat, no grains, stinky stuff! Our dog Lady lived to almost 18, she was a spaniel/collie mix(looked like Tramps partner from the disney movie). 
We lost two others, though when they got hit by cars, because as I said, the dogs weren't contained, they were all free to come and go. 
NO dog aggression, or people aggresssion. Most all dogs were very happy go lucky, and would listen to anyone. There were collies, Irish Setters, pekinese, a GSD mix, daschies, and a few mixed breeds in the neighborhood.
Training wasn't something anyone but the Irish setter family did(they were in 4-H) and they did get other kids involved in the 4-H program. 

Because we lived in a lake community everyone was close to each other/ family, so it was probably a bit different lifestyle than normal, I don't know. It was a wonderful childhood, we had lake on one side, horses on the other with woods/trails to ride them. And a field to play baseball on a daily basis. The dogs were always around.


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## Zeeva

What a GREAT thread. I don't know what to say...

I guess we fuss a lot more over our pets now? Maybe the increase in societal depression and anxiety is also effecting our dogs?


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## shepherdmom

Jack's Dad said:


> My experience was almost identical to Stevenzachsmom.
> 
> I grew up in Pasadena Calif., so the experiences were not just east coast.
> 
> The dogs that survived Distemper, Parvo, and automobiles were vastly more stable than the pampered brats ( dogs or kids) you see today.
> 
> I am aware that anyone under thirty will think we only remember the good stuff and forget the not so good. Not so. You'll know that if you live long enough.
> .


Agreed, not just east coast or west coast. I grew up in Arizona and spent my summers with family in the Midwest. I also had similar experiences. Dogs and people were a lot more stable back then. If you did get bit; it was your fault. If you tried crying to an adult the response was always..."well what did you do to the dog"?


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## Capone22

onyx'girl said:


> I grew up in the 60's. We lived on a lake and all the dogs were free to come and go where ever they pleased(even in other's homes), but they all knew their own home and families. They were all indoor dogs. We were outside most often as well, moms kicked us out in the morning and called us in at dark. Nothing to do inside, so out was the place to be.
> 
> No oops litters(though I do remember seeing dogs breeding when I was about 7-8, but that was way down the shoreline!) and I don't think many were into the spay/neuter or vaccinating back then. The food was Rival, and other brands, full of horse meat, no grains, stinky stuff! Our dog Lady lived to almost 18, she was a spaniel/collie mix(looked like Tramps partner from the disney movie).
> We lost two others, though when they got hit by cars, because as I said, the dogs weren't contained, they were all free to come and go.
> NO dog aggression, or people aggresssion. Most all dogs were very happy go lucky, and would listen to anyone. There were collies, Irish Setters, pekinese, a GSD mix, daschies, and a few mixed breeds in the neighborhood.
> Training wasn't something anyone but the Irish setter family did(they were in 4-H) and they did get other kids involved in the 4-H program.
> 
> Because we lived in a lake community everyone was close to each other/ family, so it was probably a bit different lifestyle than normal, I don't know. It was a wonderful childhood, we had lake on one side, horses on the other with woods/trails to ride them. And a field to play baseball on a daily basis. The dogs were always around.


What an amazing childhood. I wish I had a place like this to raise my children! 


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## shepherdmom

x11 said:


> personally , i won't be and really do not want to be around in what i think the state of the world will be like in the medium/long term future.


Ha you got that right!


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## NancyJ

I grew up just NE of Baltimore City in Carney area in a post WWII neighborhood of small houses small lots. Same time frame (60s) 

We did let our dogs out to go to the bathroom but for the most part they were inside with us-I had a leash to take mine for walks but she would play with me in my yard. My cousins lived in the city closer to Hamilton - home my grandfather built - I know he had a dog pen. My step grandmother (My real grandmother died before I was born) had a dog named "Lassie" yes a collie and a nasty dog that made me loathe the breed. 

I really don't remember dogs running loose and about when I was growing up and they came to our house requiring city licenses and everything. ...... everyone in my family had dogs. ..... My aunt in a rowhouse had a little fenced yard backing up to the ally. We did feed "gravy train" and "alpo" and table scraps. Dogs went to vet got shots, got spayed. etc.


My mothers family was in rural GA. There were lots of loose dogs. Dogs who were mean or chased livestock were simply shot. My mothers first dog was a German Shepherd. They wound up killing it because it would not let anyone near my mother.


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## x11

lol when people had a fence around there house when i was a kid the neighbours would all start to gossip speculating what is it these people are trying to hide...nudist colony, communists on lsd.......


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## elisabeth_00117

I grew up in the 90's (born in 85) and can remember a very similar lifestyle. 

To be perfectly honest, when I go back home to my hometown.. it is still like that!


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## JakodaCD OA

I grew up in the 70's, small town, rural. I do remember feeding our dogs crap food (hey parents at the time were the ones who bought the food!),,never doing vacs, never having sick dogs who had to go to the vets all the time.

Everyone knew the neighborhood dogs that roamed around and visited everyone. Dog fights, gosh I don't even remember one! 

Our dogs lived in the house, part of the family, no fenced yards..life was simple


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## Lilie

My grandparents lived in the country. Their neighbor's across the street had a dairy farm. They kept a small pony on their farm. All the kids would ride around the farm on the pony. 

When we'd go to visit, we'd love to go to the dairy farm. We'd go to the neighbor's door and they'd send us out in the pastures with their dog, a collie mix named Shep to find that pony. Our only rule was to stay together with Shep. 

I don't recall Shep every growing old. She was always the same ole' dog. It wasn't until years later I realized that Shep pushed the dairy cows away from us. That was why we had to stick with her. She never left us. Never snapped at us. Never ran the cattle. Never ran the pony. If we found the pony, one of us would jump on and the pony would walk back to the home site. If we couldn't find the pony, Shep would lead us back. 

No adult was worried about young children wandering the country side, getting hurt or lost. We had Shep. How amazing was that?


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## Liesje

My mom grew up in the 60s (born in 58) and she told me their neighbor across the street had a GSD and it was extremely aggressive and that is why my grandma never really trusted dogs. Before my grandma passed she took an interest in my dogs (asked me how training was, where we placed in the latest trial) but never wanted to actually see or touch my dogs. My mom said in her old neighborhood dogs were typically chained up in yards, not running free (but she and I both lived/grew up in urban neighborhoods) and that they were often aggressive to passersby and showed very little training.


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## NancyJ

I think, from my perspective, a big change is when I grew up dogs were dogs not substitute kids. We were taught to respect them and the rare times a kid got bit the parents attitude was "what did you do to make the dog bite you" instead of "gotta sue gotta sue" -- In general (a lot of things) it seems there was more personal accountability for everything back then. 

Honestly, I do remember more SMALL dogs being pets, but maybe that was my family - mainly chihuahuas and Jack Russels. The southern family had both German Shepherds and various hounds-big dogs were outside dogs and small dogs were inside dogs.


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## gagsd

I grew up in the 70's. Most neighbors had a dog. Most kept in fenced in back yards and allowed inside at night as I recall. Our cocker was pretty vicious... bit several people before he was "sent away."
The neighbor's Samoyed got loose and bit me while I was walking our family poodle. I was maybe 9 or 10?
My brother got bitten by the other neighbor's schnauzer.... stuck his hand in their fence.

The difference I see is that (aside from the Cocker who was just deemed crazy).... the dogs were viewed as acting like dogs. You got bitten, well what did you do?


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## Liesje

I was born in 1984 and was bit in the face by a GSD as a toddler (while my mom was in the hospital having my brother). No one was sued, the dog was not euthanized. My brother was bit by a relative's GSD when he was a teenager. We went up to their cottage to stay for a week as they were on their way out, had no idea they even had a dog, and all the sudden this GSD is latched onto my brother's butt. She ripped his pants, underwear, and nailed him pretty good but again, no one was sued and from then on we checked to make sure the dog was crated before we got out.


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## martemchik

See...its all where you grew up and how things have changed. Has nothing to do with the decade or the times.

I don't see that many dogs with issues. I don't hear of a lot of lawsuits...when I do its through some tiny media outlet that usually has some crazy agenda in the first place.

Each one of you has told a story...but that doesn't mean there weren't others out there where people DID get sued when their dog bit someone. Also...always remember, just because you get sued...doesn't mean the lawsuit actually happens or that the person that got bit will win.

There are more rules when it comes to dogs because someone, somewhere, squacked after a run in with a bad dog and decided to get their municipality to change. Enough run ins...and you get a breed ban (look at Denver). Dogs haven't been restricted because of the masses...they've been restricted because of a few. The few that decided to not train, to not contain or PTS their aggressive dog and treat it just like any regular dog. A few of those get "free run" of a neighborhood, and soon enough all dogs are behind fences.

Sorry for being 24...but I hate this "dogs were so much better back in my day" attitude. It's just not true...I don't worry one bit about 99% of the dogs I meet or see around my neighborhood. Sorry that you guys live in places with irresponsible owners.


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## gagsd

Quote from Gail Fisher....
"These days, if a dog grumbles at being asked to move (off the bed), the owner sleeps on the couch and calls a behaviorist in the morning."

I think parts of us have been so saturated with new ideas, we just forget common sense.


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## shepherdmom

martemchik said:


> Sorry for being 24...but I hate this "dogs were so much better back in my day" attitude. It's just not true...I don't worry one bit about 99% of the dogs I meet or see around my neighborhood. Sorry that you guys live in places with irresponsible owners.


You can't know for certain you were not there! The lack of respect that has been shown by a few, to those who were around back then is a big part of what is wrong with the world today. Older folks are accused of false memories, rose colored glasses etc. and so forth but the truth of the matter is younger folks have no real knowledge, they just think they know better. Someday they will learn the hard way that what they think they know is just a big pile of dog poo.


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## wolfy dog

Discoetheque said:


> Back then, it was just you and the dog. None of the bells and whistles that there are today. No hoopla over socialization or food ingredients. Most of what is most damaging to dogs today was absent back then.
> Today, I had a woman call me at work crying because she had to fill out a bite report. She had surrendered her dog to us after it tore her hand open while she was trying to leash it. She cried and bawled about how she bought the dog the best food ever and the best toys ever. The dog had her own bed, a section in the closet for clothing, and a kids' toy castle to play in. If she went out to eat, she would order the dog her own meal. She just could not understand how she could do all these things for the dog and the dog repay her with a laceration that went from wrist to knuckle.
> 
> The dog had everything but structure. Humanization over the years, I think is the most damaging thing to our dogs. They were better behaved because we weren't inflicting all our neuroses on them or throwing unnecessary luxuries at them in exchange for pure and simple time with us and love.


Years ago I had a New Agey lady in my class who had adopted a Pit Bull. She had given him a Sanskrit name meaning "The Chosen One". Got an email from her after the first class that she had him put to sleep with this message:"despite all our love and xxxx-brand dog food, he is still digging in the yard so we decided to put him to sleep." 
I reported her to the local shelter and the only thing they could do was putting her on the black list.This was an awesome dog that had passed his temp. test with flying colors in the shelter.
If she reincarnates I hope she'll come back as a dog.....


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## Lilie

shepherdmom said:


> Someday they will learn the hard way that what they think they know is just a *big pile of dog poo*.


Poo that we walked three miles up hill during a blizzard to shovel out.


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## martemchik

shepherdmom said:


> You can't know for certain you were not there! The lack of respect that has been shown by a few, to those who were around back then is a big part of what is wrong with the world today. Older folks are accused of false memories, rose colored glasses etc. and so forth but the truth of the matter is younger folks have no real knowledge, they just think they know better. Someday they will learn the hard way that what they think they know is just a big pile of dog poo.


But its alright for an older person to disrespect me by saying I have a "know it all attitude." Respect is earned, not given just because of age. I know its shocking to all of you but welcome to the 21st century.

I respect all my elders that I know and that have earned it. I don't need to show you any respect just because you're 60 and decide to take my posts super personal. I never accused just older folks of having rose colored glasses...I've admitted to having them myself about my childhood (which wasn't that long ago).

I'm sure when I'm older I'll look back and think times were better back when I was young...but the truth is they will probably be about the same. My grandparents tell me all the time how their life was better when they were younger, and they lived their whole life in communist USSR. But hey, according to them it was better, so they must be right!


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## Jack's Dad

[/QUOTE]Sorry for being 24...but I hate this "dogs were so much better back in my day" attitude. It's just not true...I don't worry one bit about 99% of the dogs I meet or see around my neighborhood. Sorry that you guys live in places with irresponsible owners.[/QUOTE]

Not sure why something that has apparently no impact on you bothers you.

Why can't you just let us wander aimlessly in our senile haze of false memories and be happy you are not one of us but only 24 and brilliant.


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## Lilie

martemchik said:


> But its alright for an older person to disrespect me by saying I have a "know it all attitude." Respect is earned, not given just because of age. I know its shocking to all of you but welcome to the 21st century.


Welcome to the 21st century? Please. My daughter isn't much older than you and I can assure you she shows respect to folks who are older than her. She may not agree with them and she'll certain speak her mind, but she does it with respect. By doing so, people take her seriously.


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## martemchik

Lilie said:


> Welcome to the 21st century? Please. My daughter isn't much older than you and I can assure you she shows respect to folks who are older than her. She may not agree with them and she'll certain speak her mind, but she does it with respect. By doing so, people take her seriously.


I actually never disrespected anyone...someone just took my GENERAL post as disrespectful. I can do that to any and all posts on this forum. Anyone says something, I can find a way that its disrespectful (as long as its against MY opinion). I assure you that I speak quite respectfully to people. Maybe since this is an online forum, and you can't read my intent, you take it wrong...and then it ends up snow balling like this as usual.


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## RocketDog

I was born in 1970. There were GSD's on my block (one that was freakin' AWESOME and the other had hip dysplasia) and two around on the next block, that belonged to a German couple. There were also the various mutts, and a Great Dane and an Irish Setter down the road. We had a German Shorthair, then a *cough* poodle. The poodle used to hang out with the Irish Setter all the time, until one day, the Dane was out and the two of them came up to our house, my brother let the poodle out, and....well.....by the time my dad got the two big dogs to back off, the poodle was cowering on the steps with most of it's skin hanging off it's back. They had each grabbed it and were pulling it between them. Of course we had to euthanize the poodle. I have never seen my dad so livid. Both of the dogs were sent to live on farms with other families. (I saw the setter later, it was a farm very close). The Dane had already bitten a person and gotten into it with the GSD down the road (the awesome one). 

The GSD's on the block every one treated with respect. The two that belonged to the German lady, she would walk them by and I would see them and come screaming out the door and run pel-mel down our front hill at them. In retrospect, the dogs were fabulous, never batted an eye. But boy, did the Lady give me an earful everytime until it sunk in. She rode me upside and down about running straight at two big dogs, while my parents sat in the house, shaking their heads, letting Mrs. B chew me a new one. Then when I came in, I got the "If you get bit, it's your own **** fault" thing. The only dog I was ever *afraid* of was this **** little black terrier named Pepper down the other block. That little sh/t would come screaming around the corner of the house if we were walking by and chase us and bit me twice on the back of the achilles, drawing blood both times, barking and growling and snarling. Of course, we were always barefoot so kicking back was not an option. 

Ah, childhood memories.


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## shepherdmom

Lilie said:


> Poo that we walked three miles up hill during a blizzard to shovel out.


Well I lived in Arizona so I didn't walk in the snow... However I did manage to survive walking in 120 degree heat barefoot to a school with no air conditioning. :tongue: :rofl:


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## lily's master

Well I am only 40, I wasnt around in the 60s but I was raised in a little town that seemed like it was trapped in that era. lol 
I did know allot of people with dogs just like you described, actually everyone in my small town had dogs like that except one guy who had a bunch of dogs and you couldnt walk by his house or ride your bike by because they would chase you and bite. He actually had a couple dogs that he killed because they had bit people. I remember the one cop( no it wasnt mayberry but close) in our town that had to shoot one of them because it had a kid cornered and the owner wasnt around. 
I think the reason we never heard about dog attacks when we were younger is like you said we had three tv stations( and I didnt spend allot of time inside watching the news) no internet, we werent hooked up to the news in the next state or around the world. Now today we hear about it all the time because we have access to that kinda info. If I ddint have cable, or net today I wouldnt know about any dog attacks because none have happend in my neighborhood or close by where I would hear about it. 
The dogs back then(atleast with the people I grew up with and around) didnt have it near as good as the dogs today do. Yes sure the kids played with them more because they werent destracted by computers and games and spent allot more time outside. However no dog we ever owned had vet care, no spaying or shots, if they got sick we killed them, they werent allowed inside, I lived in the far south so nobody ever thought it was cold enough to let them in. I would have loved it but the adults around me wouldnt let that happen. 
I remember one time we had a chow and a little dog that looked like benji and we named him that too. The adults would get dogs for whatever reason and they were allowed in the house for maybe a week or two, until they tore stuff up or had accidents in the house. 
Well the chow was a female and the benji was a dog, and dogs did what dogs do. She had allot of puppies, nobody even knew she was pregnate just woke up one morning and there they were. Not to long after she had the pups, she got mange and so did the father, and ofcourse they passed it on to the puppies. Did we take them to the vet? Nope grandpa got out his hand gun and spent about three minutes putting bullets in each one of the puppies heads and the parents. Then did they morn them or bury them? Nope plastic bags and tossed them in the creek. 
Were these dogs good and kid frendly? yes they were they loved everyone. What did they get for it in return? So sad but thats the truth of the animals I grew up with. Those two were just an example there were many more that died that way or were just dumped off down some lonely road. 
So yeah thats kinda my take on how things were then and now. I know my family wasnt the only ones who did that either, everyone thought it was normal and did things that way too.


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## shepherdmom

martemchik said:


> But its alright for an older person to disrespect me by saying I have a "know it all attitude." Respect is earned, not given just because of age. I know its shocking to all of you but welcome to the 21st century.
> 
> I respect all my elders that I know and that have earned it. I don't need to show you any respect just because you're 60 and decide to take my posts super personal. I never accused just older folks of having rose colored glasses...I've admitted to having them myself about my childhood (which wasn't that long ago).
> 
> I'm sure when I'm older I'll look back and think times were better back when I was young...but the truth is they will probably be about the same. My grandparents tell me all the time how their life was better when they were younger, and they lived their whole life in communist USSR. But hey, according to them it was better, so they must be right!


Wow speaking of taking posts uber personal. Do you see anywhere in my post where I said "you" had a know it all attitude? In fact the only thing I said to you personally was that you were not there. The rest of my post was a general comment on the world today. I'm still allowed to have opinions right? Cause frankly the way things are going I'm afraid one day that won't be allowed anymore.


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## martemchik

RocketDog said:


> I was born in 1970. There were GSD's on my block (one that was freakin' AWESOME and the other had hip dysplasia) and two around on the next block, that belonged to a German couple. There were also the various mutts, and a Great Dane and an Irish Setter down the road. We had a German Shorthair, then a *cough* poodle. The poodle used to hang out with the Irish Setter all the time, until one day, the Dane was out and the two of them came up to our house, my brother let the poodle out, and....well.....by the time my dad got the two big dogs to back off, the poodle was cowering on the steps with most of it's skin hanging off it's back. They had each grabbed it and were pulling it between them. Of course we had to euthanize the poodle. I have never seen my dad so livid. Both of the dogs were sent to live on farms with other families. (I saw the setter later, it was a farm very close). The Dane had already bitten a person and gotten into it with the GSD down the road (the awesome one).
> 
> The GSD's on the block every one treated with respect. The two that belonged to the German lady, she would walk them by and I would see them and come screaming out the door and run pel-mel down our front hill at them. In retrospect, the dogs were fabulous, never batted an eye. But boy, did the Lady give me an earful everytime until it sunk in. She rode me upside and down about running straight at two big dogs, while my parents sat in the house, shaking their heads, letting Mrs. B chew me a new one. Then when I came in, I got the "If you get bit, it's your own **** fault" thing. The only dog I was ever *afraid* of was this **** little black terrier named Pepper down the other block. That little sh/t would come screaming around the corner of the house if we were walking by and chase us and bit me twice on the back of the achilles, drawing blood both times, barking and growling and snarling. Of course, we were always barefoot so kicking back was not an option.
> 
> Ah, childhood memories.


WOAH!!! Look at that! There were bad dogs back then?!?!? Can't be!!!

Are you trying to tell me that a small sample of the population's life experience doesn't mean that the whole population had the same type of experience?!?!?

I wasn't trying to burst anyone's bubble with my post, just stating that in general, things average out. There isn't an increase or decrease (with respect to population size) of incidents or these types of events over small periods of time.

If you read my posts it actually proves it...I grew up around a lot of well-behaved, friendly dogs. Just like the neighborhood OP grew up in (probably more suburban since it was just outside of Chicago). Assuming I'm on this forum in 40 years...I'll make a thread just like this one if things tend to go south in regards to dog behavior, but it doesn't mean that there isn't another neighborhood out there that has a lot of well-behaved dogs with kids growing up in it.


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## shepherdmom

Sorry for being 24...but I hate this "dogs were so much better back in my day" attitude. It's just not true...I don't worry one bit about 99% of the dogs I meet or see around my neighborhood. Sorry that you guys live in places with irresponsible owners.[/QUOTE]

Not sure why something that has apparently no impact on you bothers you.

Why can't you just let us wander aimlessly in our senile haze of false memories and be happy you are not one of us but only 24 and brilliant.[/QUOTE]


:spittingcoffee:


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

Im hesitant to join this thread as Im older,work w/ juveniles and wanna smack my 18 yearold son in the head like Gibbs does to Tony all the time. The fact is I dont know anything for sure but growing up in the 60's and 70's there was less of a rush to litigate and a much greater tendency to say "what did you do"when a child came back home with an injury? I did have a run in w/ our neighbors pack of dogs when I was eight ,they would kind of herd me and knock me down on my way to the bus stop. Only time my parents didnt say what did you do first. I was walked to the bus stop the next day and my parent got to see the thundering mass. They spoke to the neighbor and the problem stopped. I also attempted as a 4 year old to make friends w/ my uncles GSd Taffy,truly gorgeous but crazed. I got my butt beat even though i kept explaining she tilted her head and invited me to visit. No one saw that my way. I never remember hearing about my rights. I did as a kid hear daily about my responsibilities. As a result i learned quick that I answered for my behavior. On the other hand I spent entire days in the woods,blew up an apple tree w. fireworks and in todays world would have been at Juvenile Court for that, I think some things are alot better for both people and dogs and kids,others not so much. Our dogs in my family were on a chain. My dads family is anti dog,my Mom's is country dog. They have the balance. I as you can tell from my name here might not be as balanced in regard to my dogs as othesr. Although no dog runs me out of my bed nor ever will. I do bring home pasta w/ marinera for Lucky mostly out of memory for Daisy. I do after vet visits that require a shot get chicken tenders for Lucky and the girls.They prefer McDonalds. All three look at BK as though its blended vegetables. There are many things I like about today's dog culture ,there are things I liked better in the ancient times of the 70's. Jan Ido think we lost alot of the sense of community we had. I also think that the increase in breeding has resulted in a weakening of many dog breeds genetically. I think that has caught up w/ the Gsd especially. Well Im going to lunch to use my AARP card for my discount ,


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## Freestep

I was born in 1968 so I don't remember the 60's, but in the 70's, things were much different than they are today.

First of all, there didn't seem to be any notion of "liability". People understood personal responsibility, and that extended to dogs. Dogs were dogs, and if you got bitten, it was probably YOUR fault, and you simply learned that it was a bad idea to get near a strange dog that was gnawing a bone, or barking behind a fence, or whatever. When I was a kid, I got bitten more times than I can remember, and there was only one time that I can definitely say was unprovoked. Even then, nothing was done, we went to the neighbor's house and made sure the rabies vaccine was up to date and that was it. Later on I made friends with the dog, and had no more problems. When I knew it was my fault that I was bitten, I was too embarrassed to tell anyone, and simply filed it under the "don't do that again" file.

In my neighborhood, dogs were roaming free all the time and no one was afraid of them. The dogs generally were either friendly, or stayed out of your way. There were no "dog parks", or obedience classes, or socialization classes. Dogs got socialized by roaming the neighborhood and visiting other dogs. What's the name of that Konrad Lorenz book? It was like that.

So, I don't know if I would go so far as to say that the dogs were better behaved 40 years ago, but people's attitudes and expectations were different.


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## Lilie

If memory serves..and I'm old so it's questionable...but I don't think there were leash laws back in the 60's, early 70's. I think it first came to pass in the late 70's, early 80's.


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## Vinnie

This is such a fun thread! So fun to reminisce about our childhood dog experiences. Fun to read others too. I hope no one minds if I add more. :blush: (Well maybe one young person minds - but whatever!)


Jack's Dad said:


> Why can't you just let us wander aimlessly in our senile haze of false memories and be happy you are not one of us but only 24 and brilliant.


Really! Us old fogies are having fun. Leave us alone! :rofl:

I realized earlier that I said I didn’t grow up in the 60s but I did grow up in the 70s in suburbia. So still a very different time then today and probably not as harsh as the cities.

Yes, there were dogs that were considered “dogs to avoid”. Some I recall were the guard dogs at the construction warehouse near our home. We were told to stay away from them – which we did. 

I do remember many of our neighbors’ dogs. One neighbor had this (what seemed huge to me as a small kid) Old English Sheep Dog who was outside all the time. I can’t remember his name but he was a pretty cool dog. Mellow and slow. I remember one time Pepper (mom’s miniature poodle) racing across the yard at this dog and latching on to his neck. He stood up and shook his head and Pepper had to hang on for dear life. :rofl: Dad pulled him off and told me to go put him in the house. Pepper today would probably be considered a dog aggressive dog. 

Another neighbor had a small fluffy Pomeranian. I remember my mom and this neighbor standing out in the yard talking. I bent down to pet this dog and it bit me (still have the scar) on the finger. Mom said I had no business trying to pet a dog that was barking at me like that. She took me in the house and made me wash my hand and then put that orange stuff (iodine) on the bite and told me to get a band aide. I’m sure this dog would be classified as an aggressive dog today too. 

Then there were the neighbor guys (yes 2 adult males who shared a house back in the 70s in Minnesota) who owned 2 pit bulls. They would chain the dogs to cement bricks out in the yard when they left for work. When the dogs seen us kids come out to play they would drag those blocks to our yard so we’d play with them too. Us kids always tried to get the dogs to drag their blocks back before the guys got home. 

My grandmother had a border collie named Pal. That dog followed her everywhere. Grandma lived in a small Wisconsin town and walked to many places. When she went to the grocery store the dog followed and waited outside the store until she came back out. When she went to church the dog followed and waited outside until the service was over and then followed Grandma back home. That was a good dog and still makes me want a border collie.

My uncle had yellow hunting labs. He had a few and named each one Totem (as in Totem Pole if anyone remembers those). There was Totem the first, second and third. The second lost his leg in a hunting trap and was a tri-pod most of his life. 



Discoetheque said:


> Back then, it was just you and the dog. ………
> ………………..
> …..Humanization over the years, I think is the most damaging thing to our dogs. They were better behaved because we weren't inflicting all our neuroses on them or throwing unnecessary luxuries at them in exchange for pure and simple time with us and love.


Amen! I couldn’t agree more. :thumbup:


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## Bear GSD

Vinnie said:


> My grandmother had a border collie named Pal. That dog followed her everywhere. Grandma lived in a small Wisconsin town and walked to many places. When she went to the grocery store the dog followed and waited outside the store until she came back out. When she went to church the dog followed and waited outside until the service was over and then followed Grandma back home. That was a good dog and still makes me want a border collie.


OMG Vinne, I had a Border Collie mix named Pal. I loved that dog!
I was just thinking about Pal just the other day


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## Vinnie

:thumbup:

BTW: Grandma didn't use a leash. The dog just followed.


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## shepherdmom

Vinnie said:


> Really! Us old fogies are having fun. Leave us alone! :rofl:


There was a golden next door to us, and her owners went away on vacation and asked us to go over and feed her. I was the one that usually did it, but one day I got held up at school, so my dad went over to feed her for me and she bit him... bad enough that he needed stitches. Even back then doctors had to report dog bites and I remember my dad lied his butt off. He said he was walking and some strange dog he had never seen before came up and bit him. He told me it was his fault and he went to pick the bowl up before she was completely done with it and she was a good dog, shouldn't have to suffer for his mistake. We continued to go over there every day and fed and played with the dog until the owner got back, but he was a lot more careful, I never was allowed to go over there alone after that, we fed the dog together.


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## martemchik

Vinnie said:


> My grandmother had a border collie named Pal. That dog followed her everywhere. Grandma lived in a small Wisconsin town and walked to many places. When she went to the grocery store the dog followed and waited outside the store until she came back out. When she went to church the dog followed and waited outside until the service was over and then followed Grandma back home. That was a good dog and still makes me want a border collie.


I wish we could do that today...but someone would probably try to 1) steal your dog, get bit, sue you or 2) call AC because you're being negligent and try to get the dog taken away from you.


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## Gwenhwyfair

I grew up in the 60s, 70s, rural and farms and loose dogs didn't last too long if they wandered off their property, as per your comments in blue below. If the farmer's dog misbehaved or went after chickens, livestock, people it was killed. They were pretty matter of the fact about it.

Some of my observations of that time:

I had a friend who was attacked by her neighbor's GSD in the late 60s. It required a hospital visit and she's afraid of GSDs to this day. The people who owned the dog apologized profusely and paid all the medical bills, no law suits were required.

My Uncle's shepherd in Germany got the mailman one time and that was back in 1950s. 

Our dogs were mostly inside, Mom liked poodles so we had the mini poodles (which were a little bigger the a lot of minis I see lately). We also had a bird dog at one time and Keeshound, they stayed outside.

We fed purina dog chow and table scraps to our dogs....but back then the quality of the ingredients were better because the companies were not owned by large food conglomerates which are always looking to save every last penny on ingredients. (think about corn and how heavily subsidized it is to keep the prices low, it's all interconnected and ends up in dog food because it's cheaper then meat ingredients).

I do think one aspect of the problem is we have become hyper-vigilant about kids. Even the most innocent of accidents (dog accidentally scratches kid's arm) often (not always) are turned into some huge moral conflict about irresponsibility that must be adjudicated and atoned for when it was ...just... a dang accident.




jocoyn said:


> <snipped>
> 
> 
> My mothers family was in rural GA. There were lots of loose dogs. Dogs who were mean or chased livestock were simply shot. My mothers first dog was a German Shepherd. They wound up killing it because it would not let anyone near my mother.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Yup, there sure was. 

I find myself falling into that trap every now and then, well this was better and that was better when I was growing up.

To be truthful somethings were better (I miss the good old fashioned Vernor's Ginger Ale), but I do NOT miss the level of animal abuse that was tolerated back then.

Times change and things change some for the better, some for the worse. It's not really applicable to compare the 50s, 60s or 70s to today due to changes in technology, globalization, monopolization and shifts in cultural memes (like dogs being anthromorphized too much).

So IMO it's o.k. for you to see things for what they are, not all good, not all bad, no matter how old you are.





martemchik said:


> WOAH!!! Look at that! There were bad dogs back then?!?!? Can't be!!!
> 
> Are you trying to tell me that a small sample of the population's life experience doesn't mean that the whole population had the same type of experience?!?!?
> 
> I wasn't trying to burst anyone's bubble with my post, just stating that in general, things average out. There isn't an increase or decrease (with respect to population size) of incidents or these types of events over small periods of time.
> 
> If you read my posts it actually proves it...I grew up around a lot of well-behaved, friendly dogs. Just like the neighborhood OP grew up in (probably more suburban since it was just outside of Chicago). Assuming I'm on this forum in 40 years...I'll make a thread just like this one if things tend to go south in regards to dog behavior, but it doesn't mean that there isn't another neighborhood out there that has a lot of well-behaved dogs with kids growing up in it.


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## Jack's Dad

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Yup, there sure was.
> 
> I find myself falling into that trap every now and then, well this was better and that was better when I was growing up.
> 
> To be truthful somethings were better (I miss the good old fashioned Vernor's Ginger Ale), but I do NOT miss the level of animal abuse that was tolerated back then.
> 
> Times change and things change some for the better, some for the worse. It's not really applicable to compare the 50s, 60s or 70s to today due to changes in technology, globalization, monopolization and shifts in cultural memes (like dogs being anthromorphized too much).
> 
> So IMO it's o.k. for you to see things for what they are, not all good, not all bad, no matter how old you are.



In order to post anything on a forum, generalizations are the norm. It's hard to cover every situation to make everyone happy.

I don't recall ( short term memory problems) anyone saying things were perfect and all dogs were safe back in those days. 

Of course there were aggressive dogs and people got bit.
The thing is as others have pointed out repeatedly is you learned to stay away from those dogs.

I had paper routes as a boy and part of the job was getting chased by dogs. To me it was part of earning some spare money and I just thought of it as another of life's normal situations. The dogs were doing what some dogs do and I figured ways to avoid problems.
It was problem solving, not a reason to get mad, just another thing to deal with.

Quote Look at that! There were bad dogs back then?!?!? Can't be!!! Quote

I was addressing the quote above.


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## Glamisfoxgurl182

I grew up in the 90s but even then it was so different then today. I always had dogs growing up. and always played with the neighbors dogs too. My parents would let me take the dogs to the park with me. I think I was still in elementary school. I remember going to the school to play on the playground and letting the dogs off their leashes, they took off, we ran after them and NEVER told mom what happend! 
At grandmas house dogs were never allowed in the house. they were Farm dogs. when it was cold they got to sleep in the garage. Its still the same today too as a matter of fact. but one time I caught a kitten and she let me bring it in the house into the basement. (not a dog but it was a big deal!)

I really hate that we have to be so careful anymore with dogs. We never worried about dogs so much back then. If something happend it was our fault not the dogs. Kids dont listen today either. My dog now isnt too good with strangers (he was abused) and I tell kids dont pet the dog ignore him. But then mom has to come to the resuce and yell at me for having a "mean" dog. I miss the old days! (even tho it was only in the 90s hahaha)


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## Gwenhwyfair

IMO I think her instincts were correct, that's the rosey-colored-glasses jist of it.

I also think when having these reminiscent sort of convos it doesn't hurt to look at the context.

I'm sort-a twixt and between age-wise, very tail end of the boomers so I can see both sides. 

Big picture I think anyone gettin' off this merry-go-round right now (if fair and realisitic) is heaving a huge sigh of relief, I tend to cut the 20 somethings a bit more slack then a lot of my peers do these days.




Jack's Dad said:


> In order to post anything on a forum, generalizations are the norm. It's hard to cover every situation to make everyone happy.
> 
> I don't recall ( short term memory problems) anyone saying things were perfect and all dogs were safe back in those days.
> 
> Of course there were aggressive dogs and people got bit.
> The thing is as others have pointed out repeatedly is you learned to stay away from those dogs.
> 
> I had paper routes as a boy and part of the job was getting chased by dogs. To me it was part of earning some spare money and I just thought of it as another of life's normal situations. The dogs were doing what some dogs do and I figured ways to avoid problems.
> It was problem solving, not a reason to get mad, just another thing to deal with.
> 
> Quote Look at that! There were bad dogs back then?!?!? Can't be!!! Quote
> 
> I was addressing the quote above.


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## Vinnie

martemchik said:


> I wish we could do that today...but someone would probably try to 1) steal your dog, get bit, sue you or 2) call AC because you're being negligent and try to get the dog taken away from you.


Very true. But as I said my Grandma lived in a small town in Wisconsin. Everyone knew her and her dog and this was a normal sight for them. "Look there's Pal, Helen must be in getting groceries. Let's stop and say hi." Now if she had lived in one of the "big cities" back then people might not of been so keen on this. So maybe times have changed but also location played a factor.


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## Lilie

Jack's Dad said:


> I had paper routes as a boy and part of the job was getting chased by dogs. To me it was part of earning some spare money and I just thought of it as another of life's normal situations. The dogs were doing what some dogs do and I figured ways to avoid problems.
> It was problem solving, not a reason to get mad, just another thing to deal with.


I had a paper route too!!! I usually took my dog with me. One day I didn't and a neighborhood dog jumped on my bike (it was excited, not aggressive)and knocked me over. I hit my head pretty hard. The neighbor scooped me up and took me home. My parents took me to the ER (head wound, lots of blood) and I had to get stiches. The neighbor apologized and felt really bad. But my parents didn't sue. The dog wasn't picked up or PTS. 

And I ALWAYS got a hec of a tip from that guy afterwards!!!!


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## RocketDog

Aw you just have to know where to visit to not need a leash. Where my dad is from in Montana, if your dog is under your control in town or anywhere except a NFS campground, they don't give a rat's azz if it's not leashed. . When I lived in Missoula I took my dog into the bars with me. (Ok, so that one was a few years ago, but I take Rocket everywhere in Noxon now) 

I think parents were still cautious appropriately back in the 70's. There was a St. Bernard on the street behind mine and as kids, the neighbors always warned us to be careful around the dog. Probably because he weighed more than two of us put together. 

Vinnie, it sounds like naming a dog Pepper is a bad omen!


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## sparra

martemchik said:


> I wish we could do that today...but someone would probably try to 1) steal your dog, get bit, sue you or 2) call AC because you're being negligent and try to get the dog taken away from you.


....and here I was thinking that you thought NOTHING has changed.....


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## onyx'girl

Micro-management from the infant stage to the end of lifetimes has made us all softer/more fragile. 
Allergies, aches, pains, etc we can't just deal with them, we have to get into the deep to control every aspect of breathe in breathe out.
If this world had one or two days of internet freedom(away from being plugged in)... I can't imagine the stress some people would have.


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## lorihd

great thread, i was thinking how different dogs were growing up and how they are today. i did grow up in the 60's and my first dog was a gsd, and my 2nd dog was a gsd, i never leased them, always took them to the park and they always listened to commands. yes there werent any obedience classes or fancy food. but i do think the difference was time, we always had time, (mom was always home) and then we would come home after school and go out to play (and take the dogs). growing up my mother alway regarded our dogs as family, but they were dogs, no table food, no lounging on furniture, she (my mother) was the alpha and the dogs alway knew that.


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## x11

onyx'girl said:


> Micro-management from the infant stage to the end of lifetimes has made us all softer/more fragile.
> Allergies, aches, pains, etc we can't just deal with them, we have to get into the deep to control every aspect of breathe in breathe out.
> If this world had one or two days of internet freedom(away from being plugged in)... I can't imagine the stress some people would have.



:thumbup::thumbup:!!!


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## Stevenzachsmom

[email protected] said:


> great thread, i was thinking how different dogs were growing up and how they are today. i did grow up in the 60's and my first dog was a gsd, and my 2nd dog was a gsd, i never leased them, always took them to the park and they always listened to commands. yes there werent any obedience classes or fancy food. but i do think the difference was time, we always had time, (mom was always home) and then we would come home after school and go out to play (and take the dogs). growing up my mother alway regarded our dogs as family, but they were dogs, no table food, no lounging on furniture, she (my mother) was the alpha and the dogs alway knew that.


You hit the nail on the head about time. Kids did have more time. Kindergarten was only half day and not mandatory. Now kindergarten is mandatory and most places is a full day. The school year is longer. Kids have more homework. They are tested to death. There is the SAT, the Pre-SAT and now there is a Pre-Pre-SAT that is taken in 8th grade. Kids are pushed so hard to excel in school - honors and GT classes, clubs, community service. Sports are structured. Every day, parents are driving their kids to sports practices. Kids have no time to be kids.

We used to play in the yard, or alley, or park with our friends. We had time to spend with our dogs and play with them too. And yes most Moms were home back then. We didn't have to go to after school care. It was a lot easier to be a kid.


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## x11

without derailing but i wonder if there is a connection between a lot of the dramas we are seeing today with kids as a result of both parents working their butts off to pay the bills and farming out the bulk of the raising of their kids to well intentioned strangers compared to the days when just one parent could work (yes typically the husband) and the other (typically the mother) was at home when the kids got home, made them their food to take to school, both actually had time to read to/with their kids, all sat around a meal table at night together as a family with no texting, or face-book just actually looking at each other and talking about what you did at work/school that day, talked thru issues problems then get the family dog after the meal and take a stroll around the block as a family unit, where you knew and said hi to all yr neighbors etc etc....now???


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## Jack's Dad

Aww memories.

Anybody remember when stores closed a 6 PM and almost everything was closed on Sundays.
Sundays were family days not shopping extravaganzas.


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## Liesje

I think there may be more correlation with where one grew up (rural or suburban vs urban) then how dogs were treated or approached. My family have always been city folk. I don't care if we're talking 1880 or 2013 the dogs did not wander acres of land at will and live at large without a leash or tether. The neighborhood where I live (same square mile my mom grew up) is mostly houses built in the 30s, so things are the same now as far as the saturation of population and the actual streets and buildings. The streets aren't any more or less populous or trafficked. Dogs would have been beaned by cars in seconds if they were allowed to live outdoors at large.


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## Jack's Dad

Well I grew up in the city and our family dog knew how to cross streets and so did her buddy Bosco who lived two doors down. They looked both ways just like us kids and went when it was safe.
No rose colored glasses, that is what they did.


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## arycrest

I was a little kid in the 50's ... at that time we were living in Portland, OR ... all the dogs in the neighborhood ran loose except for ours ... we didn't have a fence so ours were chained outside and then brought indoors after they did their business and got some fresh air. My sister and I took our dogs everywhere except to school ... we even took them in the grocery store (Safeway in Vermont Hills). My sister's dogs (Collies) both went to dog training classes ... I trained our Pekingese and when I won my Cocker I also trained him.

When we moved back to the Maryland suburbs of DC in the mid-50s a lot of the dogs in our neighborhood (Chevy Chase) ran loose as they did out in Portland. Our yard was fenced in and our dogs were kept on lead when we took them out although we let them off lead when we were walking in Rock Creek Park (except when we were around the stables). As we did in Portland, we took them about every where (except for the grocery stores). Slowly, over the years people stopped letting their dogs run loose ... by the time I moved away from home in 1970 I can't think of a single neighbor whose dog ran at large. In MD I also lived in Bethesda (apartment ... no dogs allowed). In 1973 I moved to Crofton and I moved to Prince Frederick in 1988. In Crofton a few dogs ran loose, most were fenced in and in PF I'd guess it was about 50/50 in my neighborhood of dogs fenced vs running at large.

I was shocked when I moved down here to Ocala in 1995 ... my neighbors were flabbergasted that I not only had a lot of GSDs, but that THEY LIVED IN THE HOUSE!!! Today the majority of dogs here in my neighborhood are house dogs, a few run free and are pains in the butt because they chase cars and bother my dogs when they're outside, a few are 100% outdoor dogs.


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## Discoetheque

wolfy dog said:


> Years ago I had a New Agey lady in my class who had adopted a Pit Bull. She had given him a Sanskrit name meaning "The Chosen One". Got an email from her after the first class that she had him put to sleep with this message:"despite all our love and xxxx-brand dog food, he is still digging in the yard so we decided to put him to sleep."
> I reported her to the local shelter and the only thing they could do was putting her on the black list.This was an awesome dog that had passed his temp. test with flying colors in the shelter.
> If she reincarnates I hope she'll come back as a dog.....


This is the singular, one reason that I would love to get out of the shelter environment. I do love my job, and I love the people that I work with, but I deal with some stone-cold boneheads on a daily basis, and the innocent animals that pay for their shenanigans.

They all come in and go "Oh, I bet you would take them all home with you if you could." Regale me with stories about how their dogs were "defending" the family when it escapes the yard, runs onto the neighbor's property and bites their kid while the kid is playing ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY. The shock and awe when I say the words "training", "schedule", "vet", "slow introduction", "money" or anything related to those. I told one woman who was having problems with a shelter dog that she adopted about NILIF, and she told me "I don't think I could ever do that to a dog." They think I'm "a meanie" when I mention to them that my dogs don't get table scraps, aren't allowed on furniture, and don't need to go everyplace with me. I love them, and would do a lot for them. They are my pride and I have photos of them tacked up on my drawers and tackboard at work, but at the end of everything, they're dogs. 
Humanization is the #1 killer of dogs in our country. 

I'm only 29, but often feel like I was born into the wrong time period...


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## Incoherency

This has been such an interesting topic to read through!

I am not a child of the 60's - I'm a child of the 80's but like a couple of the previous posters have mentioned I often feel I was born in the wrong era. 

While I definitely appreciate some of the improvements of modern times as far as vet care, feeding, and preventative measures. I also miss a number of the things from yester years. I have meet far too many neurotic messes called "dogs" (or more often cuddlyupkins cupcake babycheeks) than I really want to think about. Or hugely over weight dogs! because people get a dog - over feed it and never exercise the poor thing.

I have seem so many labs that were so round that their legs were sticking out at odd angles! so fat that they couldn't hold their legs straight underneath themselves - it is ridiculous. Or little pugs that look like beach balls and their owners think it is "cute". 

I am the mother of two - but I guess I treat my kids more like how I was treated growing up and being raised by a strict French Canadian grandmother. The school systems (especially here in AZ) are absolutely horrible and my kids are home schooled. We really only do book work for two-three hours a day. The rest of the time is spent on more practical matters. I also make my kids go outside and play in the afternoons - and they take the dogs with them. Yes they have been knocked over, scratched, and even nipped a few times but honestly they get injured far more playing with each other than they have ever gotten from playing with the dogs. I am thankful that I am able to be home with my kids all day - well most days anyway  I do think that a lot of parents just find it easier to park them in front of the telly and call it good. Though "easy" is really rarely better. 

Same thing with dogs - put the hard work in when they are little and there will be less work in the long run.

Bea


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## Gwenhwyfair

...and I see_ some_ dogs doing that to this day too.

However just yesterday an older Golden was wandering on and off the street and cars were slowing down to manuever around him as he just stood there, in the middle of the road. 



Jack's Dad said:


> Well I grew up in the city and our family dog knew how to cross streets and so did her buddy Bosco who lived two doors down. They looked both ways just like us kids and went when it was safe.
> No rose colored glasses, that is what they did.


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## katdog5911

martemchik said:


> Sorry for being 24...but I hate this *"dogs were so much better back in my day"* attitude. It's just not true...I don't worry one bit about 99% of the dogs I meet or see around my neighborhood. Sorry that you guys live in places with irresponsible owners.


Dogs may not have been better....they were just dogs. It is the attitude of the people that was better IMO. Nobody sued anybody for what was considered your own stupidity. If you got bit...what did YOU do to the dog? Aggressive dog....stay away. 

Even though I grew up in the city, Brooklyn NY, dogs still roamed around. If they didn't get "street smart" they would probably get hit by a car. But cars weren't zooming around either. Drivers had to be careful of kids playing in the street back then too. 

We lived in an apt building. One of our dogs used to get let out of the apt in the morning, walk down the hall to the elevator, wait for someone to push the button. He would walk on and wait to get to get out on the main floor. Then he would make his way out and do his business, say hello to some friendly folks, and reverse the whole procedure to get back up to the apt.


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## katdog5911

Lilie said:


> Poo that we walked three miles up hill during a blizzard to shovel out.


On our way to school...:hammer:


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## katdog5911

Stevenzachsmom said:


> You hit the nail on the head about time. Kids did have more time. Kindergarten was only half day and not mandatory. Now kindergarten is mandatory and most places is a full day. The school year is longer. Kids have more homework. They are tested to death. There is the SAT, the Pre-SAT and now there is a Pre-Pre-SAT that is taken in 8th grade. Kids are pushed so hard to excel in school - honors and GT classes, clubs, community service. Sports are structured. Every day, parents are driving their kids to sports practices. Kids have no time to be kids.


Agree agree agree. But you HAVE to do well in school these days to get a job. My job now requires a college degree.... I was grandfathered in when that requirement changed as I don't have one. But I am perfectly capable of doing my job without a college education. 
I am a receptionist/scheduler/registrar in a hospital. I do not know why someone needs to go to college to learn this. It makes me wonder what is going on in the school systems? We are requiring so much testing while our kids are in school, and yet they are not capable of doing what I see as a clerical job?! 
Recently heard that there was a McDonald's that was requiring a college degree to be a cashier. Don't know if this is true...


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## Liesje

I know this is off topic, but we require a degree when we hire not because we expect college to teach/train people the skills of the job but it usually means the person has had practice in time management, working under a lot of pressure, doing large projects with people they don't necessarily like, and having some internship and networking experience. That's not to say folks can't get that if they don't go to college but unfortunately the job market is so competitive here it's just an easy way to narrow the field before we interview.  (FWIW I don't choose how we hire)


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

katdog5911 said:


> Recently heard that there was a McDonald's that was requiring a college degree to be a cashier. Don't know if this is true...


False: Rumor: McDonald's ad for cashier job requires degree


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## katdog5911

I know it is to weed out people but that is just wrong. I know quite a few college graduates that....well....how they got through is anyone's guess.

At work there is just such a person. Looks great on paper but total airhead. What kills me is that if we both were to apply for my position, she would be hired, not me. And I know I am not perfect in my job, but trust me, I am way more capable than she is. 

Back in the day, you were prepared for the real world in HS. It was expected that you were "grown up" enough to handle a real job when you graduated. If you were studying for a profession, then college would be necessary. 

I have 2 sons. One is a HS graduate, the other is in college studying chemical engineering. I can see why college is necessary for the chemical engineering. That is a specialized field that requires specialized learning. But clerical work....give me a break.


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## katdog5911

Liesje said:


> it usually means the person has had practice in time management, working under a lot of pressure, doing large projects with people they don't necessarily like, and having some internship and networking experience.  (FWIW I don't choose how we hire)


You don't have to go to college to acquire those skills. Growing up I recall being told to do volunteer work, become involved in after school activities or if possible, get a part time job. A lot was expected in school and after, including respect for others. We had to manage our time, and get along with people we didn't like. We didn't have spell check and we had to use our brains to figure out math problems. Not that I am against technology, I love it. But it is scary to me that one can't function without a calculator etc. If this is why companies look for college degrees, then there really is something wrong with our education system and our parenting perhaps. 
Seems like the requirements keep going up but the workers are getting worse. I got better quality and customer service years ago in many things. 

Ok. I ranted. I am done.

And to be clear....I am not directing anything at anyone poster specifically. This is just a sore spot for me.....


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## robinhuerta

I didn't read all the pages to this topic...so forgive me.
BUT..I did want to comment on the thread topic.
I grew up in Chicago, and not in the "best of areas"....but we all had dogs in the neighborhood.
I don't know if the dogs "had better manners" necessarily.....I honestly think the difference was....they were treated like DOGS.
We were taught as youngsters to respect the dogs...and if we didn't, it could result in a dog bite.....and if THAT happened...WE were in trouble for bothering the dog.

I think as the generations have passed....we have allowed ourselves to see our dogs (pets) as "family members equal to humans", and in some cases, more than humans....
We tend to *humanize* them....and think of them as "fur-kids" instead of canines, dogs or animals. Which is s huge mistake...in the grand scheme of things.....JMO

again...JMO.


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## robinhuerta

I wanted to add also....if dogs became neurotic or unsafe, they were euthanized.....in those times, we did not "save or rehab" everything.
Owners were the boss, leader of their dogs..(behavior was expected not asked)....in today's world, many times it is the opposite.


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## arycrest

robinhuerta said:


> I didn't read all the pages to this topic...so forgive me.
> BUT..I did want to comment on the thread topic.
> I grew up in Chicago, and not in the "best of areas"....but we all had dogs in the neighborhood.
> I don't know if the dogs "had better manners" necessarily.....I honestly think the difference was....they were treated like DOGS.
> We were taught as youngsters to respect the dogs...and if we didn't, it could result in a dog bite.....and if THAT happened...WE were in trouble for bothering the dog.
> 
> I think as the generations have passed....we have allowed ourselves to see our dogs (pets) as "family members equal to humans", and in some cases, more than humans....
> We tend to *humanize* them....and think of them as "fur-kids" instead of canines, dogs or animals. Which is s huge mistake...in the grand scheme of things.....JMO
> 
> again...JMO.





robinhuerta said:


> I wanted to add also....if dogs became neurotic or unsafe, they were euthanized.....in those times, we did not "save or rehab" everything.
> Owners were the boss, leader of their dogs..(behavior was expected not asked)....in today's world, many times it is the opposite.


 IMHO these two messages are excellent observations of what's happened to the human/dog relationship in the past 50 or so years. And I have to agree with her statement, "_We tend to *humanize* them....and think of them as "fur-kids" instead of canines, dogs or animals. Which is s huge mistake...in the grand scheme of things.....JMO_" :thumbup:


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## LeoRose

I will admit to only reading the first couple of pages, but I'd like to add a few comments. I was born in 1965, and grew up in a small town/rural area. Yeah, half the dogs ran loose, with maybe hunting dogs and "in-town" dogs being either penned up or kept in fenced yards, or maybe chained. There were several nasty dogs that ran loose. You just learned to avoid them. Dogs that chased cattle or killed chickens were shot. Dogs got hit by cars. Unwanted litters, if they couldn't be given away, were either taken to the pound or drowned. Dog Chow was considered a good food. And yes, there were dog bites, and dogs were killed by other dogs (our Peke-a-Pom, for one), but they weren't covered in the newspaper or on TV. 

I think that part of the problem today is that people's expectaions have changed. There's always been people who treated their dogs like the "kids", but nowadays, pets are expected to be "little people in fur coats", and to fill a role in our lives other than "pet". We (collective we) tend to project ourselves onto them, and take any any critisism of them as a critisism of us.


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## Ocean

Liesje said:


> I think there may be more correlation with where one grew up (rural or suburban vs urban) then how dogs were treated or approached.


I think one thing that is different is that a lot of people are now several generations removed from farming roots. Even though both my parents were professionals, my grandparents on one side and great grandparents on the other side were farmers. Growing up we still had family that were farmers or ranchers that we visited on vacations. So even city people back then had more general animal sense and more basic dog sense. Most people didn't see animals as robots or children with fur coats. Now city kids have to take a school field trip to see a cow for the first time in their lives.


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## Sunflowers

Lilie said:


> I had a paper route too!!! I usually took my dog with me. One day I didn't and a neighborhood dog jumped on my bike (it was excited, not aggressive)and knocked me over. I hit my head pretty hard. The neighbor scooped me up and took me home. My parents took me to the ER (head wound, lots of blood) and I had to get stiches. The neighbor apologized and felt really bad. But my parents didn't sue. The dog wasn't picked up or PTS.
> 
> And I ALWAYS got a hec of a tip from that guy afterwards!!!!


And you didn't have a _helmet_? Imagine that!


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## jae

A thought came to mind, how many bowls can you choose from at the nearest pet supply *superstore*, and how many brand-new ones come out every so often? Why? Well, these animals are another product of the increasingly consumer-centered times. Corporations churn out these disposable pet products, are advertised just like the millions of other low-quality disposable products on the market, which usually end up in the dump within half a year as they will soon be superceded by a "better" product. The idea is then thrust on the animal; just another product, see, it's right in the window for us to ogle like the new dress next door in the mall (made in China) so why not buy it, and if it doesn't work out, get rid of it.
There is a lack of ownership nowadays. You can easily get another low cost replacement for any given item - and if it doesn't work out as we wanted, garbage. We buy things just because we think they may look cute around the house, because hey, it's $1. The majority of products on the market are created on a mass scale, readily available for immediate use, on the cheap, to reach all consumer bases low and high, so that profit margin is maximized, in order to appease the stock holders, or the investors, or the public image. These dogs are no exception, except that they are not just another product, a fact that seems to have been largely forgotten.


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## Shaolin

I've loved reading this...a lot.

It's funny. I've never felt a need to 'humanize' an animal. Dogs are dogs, cats are cats. I love all my animals to death, but at the end of the day, they are animals. Every once in a blue moon, I'll call one of the animals by a pet name and I grieve heavily when they pass, but if it was a human life or an animal life, I'd take the human any day.

I also hate the fact that you have to protect a dog from sue happy people. I grew up with the mentality of, you don't mess with a sleeping/eating dog and you sure as anything don't mess with a strange dog, and if you got bit, what did you do to the dog? Now, all the dog has to do is look at someone wrong and you have AC up your butt. I remember, about 7 or 8 months after bringing him home, he barked at the kids who were throwing rocks, sticks, and buckeyes at him. The parents knocked on my door saying they were going to call AC if my dog barked again. I asked them kindly to tell their kids to stop throwing crap at my dog. After that, if I went outside with him and the kids were out, the Mom would come out and yell, "That vicious dog is out! Come in before you get Rabies!"

When I was a kid in the 90's, a neighbor kid kicked my dog square in the testicles and it wasn't a gentle kick either. He got bit. He did it in front of a couple of other kids and we all told my Mom what happened. She called the kids' Dad and the kid had to come down and apologize for kicking the dog, was grounded, and part of his punishment was that he had to clean Sebastians' run every day after school for a week and help with chores around the house on two Saturdays in a row. No AC, no dog being PTS...the onus was on the kid for being an idiot. Today, he would've been PTS and my parents sued for everything they are worth.


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## Cheyanna

I grew up in the 70s. My family had various dogs growing up. The dogs were never trained and lived in the house. We had a little area out the back door that was fenced for them to stay in when we were gone. Otherwise they ran around outside with us. We feed them cheap dog food and they never saw a vet, except one girl got spayed. Fast forward to today with my own dog (1st in my life). I spend $ hundreds a month on training, food, treats, toys, leashes and collars. I bought a freezer (size of a fridge), which will be hers for raw feeding. I admit that perhaps she is my substitute for kids, at least that is what a friend said to me. I just think that we have grown to appreciate what dogs can do for us. I would love to go back intime to see when society started to switch. I would say in the early 90s. Last family dog was stolen (chow chow) in 88. So no experience with dogs in 20 years. Darn, now you know I am old.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Seth08

I know in the 1970's my grandfather got his first german shepherd by trading his wifes set of hot rollers for the puppy. It lived 9 years.


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## kjdreyer

I've also been thinking about how different we are with our dogs compared to how we treated our dogs when I was growing up (in the 60's-70's). Recently I was blathering on about all the effort I'm making to get my pup people-socialized and dog-socialized and obedience trained and trying to have her life interesting for a dog, even though I work 40/wk, and paying $20 one or two times a week for doggy-day-care, all while talking to a co-worker about her leash-aggressive, dog-aggressive, reactive rescue dog. How do I even know these words?! Can you imagine doggy day care in the 70's?! Hilarious! My dad had dogs for hunting that were also incredible pets, but I'm pretty sure that the extent of their training other than their retrieving skills was the command "get in your bed" and that pretty much covered every bad behavior.

However, this is my first puppy since I was a kid, all my other dogs have been shelter adoptions, and they all had some crazy issues. I guess some of this excess is hopefully applying lessons learned to prevent problems down the line. But really, doggy day care? I wish it at least had a different name!


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## sitstay

I was born in the early 60's and remember spending a fair amount of time waiting for my parents to finish their conformation handling classes when I was a young child. There are even a few pictures floating around that memorialize those occasions.

Were classes and dog activities as readily available back then? No. But they were there if you wanted. 

There was no CNN or USA Today in those days, running a 24 hour news cycle that needed filler, lots and lots of filler. So dog bites happened then, too. But there was no culture of ALL NEWS, ALL THE TIME to drive splattering it across the country. And if you think the 24 hour news channels haven't driven your local news? Think again.

When I was six years old my Mom had a Beagle follow her home. We lived across the street from the beach, and she exercised our GSDs there. It was common for dogs to follow her home (or rather, to follow our dogs home). Anyway, she brought the dog in and it made a beeline for the water bowl in the kitchen. My younger brother walked past the dog and it bit him in the shin. Animal control was called, the dog was picked up and nobody knew about. Back before Facebook and other social media where every burp and pimple has to be recorded and shared, stuff happened all the time and never made it past the home it happened in.

Also, now that I am a parent, I realize just how much stuff goes on in a home, a neighborhood, a town and a state that the children never hear about. I figure it was pretty similar way back then, too. So just because a child in the 60's or 70's (or 50's or 80's) didn't hear about stuff doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen then. 

The good old days weren't always so good. Or so bad. They were just different. 
Sheilah


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## sitstay

kjdreyer said:


> Can you imagine doggy day care in the 70's?! Hilarious!


But back in the day there WAS doggy day care. It was the day care run by the Moms, who were for the most part of the stay-at-home variety. They were there to put the dog out to potty or play (often with the dog that lived next door, maybe with a few neighborhood kids to socialize with), to disrupt the barking or digging or any of the other behaviors that people nowadays use modern doggy day care to get rid of.

The dogs that couldn't handle that kind of old school doggy day care? Those are the ones who went to "live on a farm" or "must have found a family they liked better". The explanations for where these dogs went were sometimes pretty creative. But the point is that problematic dogs didn't stick around long if they couldn't hack the life. But don't let their quick exit lead you to believe that there were no problematic dogs back then.
Sheilah


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## x11

sit said:


> Those are the ones *who went to "live on a farm"* or "must have found a family they liked better".


what are you implying, cos that is exactly what my mom's told me as i cried when puppy dissapeared right after it took all the washing off the line :shocked::shocked::shocked: ?????


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## onyx'girl

My cat Thomasina went to *live on a farm* and I never forgave my dad for it. I cried for weeks when that happened. Loved that orange tom!


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## Jack's Dad

Just to clarify from my perspective. 
It's not that all was perfect in the good ole days it was as Sheilah said, different.

My point earlier on was that the ones who survived the diseases, automobiles 
and being sent to the farm were exceptional animals for the most part. It was truly survival of the fittest at work.
I was a fifties kid and never heard of doggy day care, crates or anything but flat collars and choke chains. Doesn't mean any of those and other things mentioned in this thread didn't exist but no one I knew had heard of them.

We loved our dogs but didn't humanize them.


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## sitstay

onyx'girl said:


> My cat Thomasina


The Disney movie, right? LOVED it. 
Sheilah


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## volcano

We "had to give up" my malamute/wolf cross after she ate a neighbors dog. Im pretty sure she got euthanised.
Im 40 and when I was 12 there were definitely dog hotels, where they had a tv and a bed. Probably super ratty motels converted, but I remember the advertising for them.


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## onyx'girl

sit said:


> The Disney movie, right? LOVED it.
> Sheilah


Yes, I watched it again not too long ago and it was so cheesy...but still made me tear up.


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## Stevenzachsmom

I just want to clear something up, for the few people who have mentioned our lack of memories, lack of getting information and dogs biting in the old days. We did get news in the old days. We had television, newspapers, radio and word of mouth. We even heard about things that happened far away. I wasn't around for the bombing of Pearl Harbor, but darned if the Americans at that time didn't get the news.

Of course dog bites happened. I never disputed that. I remember most dog bites as - clean it with Peroxide, paint on some mertholate and put a bandaid on it. I'm talking about severe dog attacks. People being mauled. THOSE would have made the news and I am not apt to have forgotten. Perhaps some kids lived sheltered lives and parents didn't discuss those kinds of things. That was not true in my home.

Just to test my memory of news in the 60s, I thought about Leakin Park. Every time there is a suspected killing, missing person, I think, "Have you looked in Leakin Park?" It has been a notorious murder/buddy dumping site for years. I don't remember every killing that took place there, but I remember the killings of 1968. I was 10 years old. I decided to see if I could find anything on the internet. Sure enough, I found "The bodies of Leakin Park." 67 bodies found there over the years. 1968 was the murder of 4 little boys. It was especially gruesome. I remembered the details, which were confirmed in what I read on that site - right down to the lunch box, bags, and body parts. Yep, I remember. So if there had been a gruesome dog attack, in my area, I would have heard about it and remembered.

So far this year, in Baltimore, and surrounding areas....
Feb. 22nd, Baltimore County - Woman attacked by at least one of her pit bulls. She was badly injured and taken to Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center.

March 11th, Baltimore County - 20 month old bitten in the face by a Pit mix.

April 5th, Waldorf, MD - A 5 year old was mauled by 2 dogs. Three dogs were on the property, 2 Presa Conarios and an English Bull dog. She sustained deep bite marks to her face, neck, and body. She was air lifted in serious condition.

There were plenty of other dog attacks that made the news in recent years, but this one really stuck in my mind. June 4, 2011, Baltimore City - An elderly woman is in the ICU after a pit bull attack. Much of her lower lip was ripped off. Doctors had to reconstruct her face. She broke her left arm in two places and crushed her fingers.

None of these were national news stories. All happened right here where I live. All made the local newspaper. They would have made the news in the 60s too. Back then we had TWO newspapers.


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## martemchik

It's still looking to me like a matter of perspective...depends on where you are now and where you were then (no matter when then was).

Sure a dog bite would've made the paper...but would you have been reading the paper? I know that I was very clueless to the local news when I was a young kid...not sure if every 8 year old in the 60s was reading the daily paper either.

Not everyone sues, do we hear more of it? Sure. And what's more...you hear more of it when a PIT BULL is involved. The media eats that up more than any other breed. Even on this forum...when someone says their GSD bit someone or acted in an aggressive matter, people ask why and try to get all the circumstances around the situation. If someone says anything about a PIT BULL biting or attacking their dog, no questions asked its the dog's fault, the terrible owner's fault, and no one cares what could've provoked the bite. I'm serious...look up the thread a little while ago about a GSD attacking a small terrier at an apartment complex...people actually said the terriers were allowed to "taunt" the GSD from yards away and that's why the dog did it. If the GSD was a PIT BULL...it would've been all **** to pay for the PIT.

There will always be irresponsible people. There will always be very responsible people. I'm sure there are plenty of parents out there today that would ask their kid what they did to cause a dog bite before suing the owners. And then there were probably plenty back then that would've tried to press some sort of charges as well. I don't have kids...but when I do...I'll teach them how to behave around a dog, but if they get bit by a neighbor dog that I've known for years to be aggressive...I'm really not going to blame the kid. Now...if they get bit by a dog that has never shown anything but protective instinct for its property, then it will be the kids who learn a lesson.

I think we're just not giving enough credit to those people that don't report things like you guys have mentioned.

Another thought that came up was the "bite and live on a farm" thing. I don't know how many thread's we've seen where a dog has bitten, once, twice, three times, sometimes more. And people are still trying to rehab and fix it. People on this forum try to give advice on how to fix it...back then...that dog would've been on the farm long before any rescue or shelter was contacted or there were even thoughts of rehoming. But for some reason (probably the humanizing) we just can't seem to let go of pets anymore. Can't put them out of their misery and save ourselves and the dog the stress that comes with owning something like that. People get judged for even suggesting PTS...and if you don't have the thousands of dollars to spend on a behaviorist you're judged for even thinking about pet ownership in the first place.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Again...I am not talking about a simple dog bite. I am talking about dog attacks that require people to be hospitalized. Most of the dog attacks in Baltimore ARE pit bulls, because that is pretty much the only breed we have in our shelters. If you bothered to read anything I wrote - the attack on the five year old this month was by a Presa Conario and an English bull dog. No pit bull. The child was air lifted to the hospital. That is not a simple dog bite. The child's clothing had been completely ripped off of her. The story wasn't in the paper, because it was a pit bull, or because someone was being sued. A five year old almost died.

As for "it depends on where you are and were" - I have only spoken to Maryland - specifically Baltimore City. I know how it was then. I know how it is now. I have no misconceptions about Baltimore. It always was and probably always will be a violent place. But the fact remains, while there were dog bites, there were not these types of dog attacks.

I could have easily read the newspaper at 8,, though I wasn't interested in doing so. As also stated - my parents told me things. That's how I knew about the dead kids in the park and the little girl that was raped and murdered. I was not a sheltered kid. Even if parents didn't want kids to know things, adults talk and kids hear. Also - kids whose parents talk, talk to other kids.


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## martemchik

I know what kind of attacks you're talking about and sorry, I refuse to believe they DIDN'T happen in the 60s. They happened in the 80s for sure...*cough*Denver*cough.* And I'm sure that more than a few happened in the decades before that. These types of attacks are what causes laws to change and for people to get more responsible. Once they see that a dog is no longer a tool for teaching children how to behave and a liability, they change the way they treat them. Dog ownership becomes preventative rather than reactionary.

Just a quick google search brought up a dog bite study which stated from 1966-1980, 16 deaths were attributed to GSD attacks and 8 were attributed to Pits. And those are just deaths...who knows how many hospital visits the dogs caused?


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## Stevenzachsmom

I give up Martemchik, You are right. You are always right. There were horrible dog attacks in Baltimore in the 1960s and I just never heard of them. You and Google are, of course, the top authorities on all things that happened in the 1960s.


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## Marnie

I did read the papers in the 60's and I have a excellent memory. There was one, just one, serious dog attack in this area in the 60's and 70's. A man became angry at this GSD who was chained in the garage. He proceeded to beat the. The dog finally attacked because it could not run. The wife's account of the attack was in both local newspapers. The man was hurt pretty badly and the dog of course was shot. I remember it very well and would remember any other dog related attacks. Rural farms sometimes had problems with dogs or dog packs killing chickens and calves. Nobody's kids were ever attacked. The farmers shot rock salt or bird shot and the packs hunted elsewhere. I also remember these very clearly. I remember my brother who was running and yelling getting bitten by the neighbor's evil little fox terrier. But he wasn't mauled. 

Previous posters reminded me how tolerant and respectful people used to be of dogs. Simple dog bites happened all the time to kids. The kids were always scolded for bothering the dog. Just imagine that happening today. 

Most of us who have always loved dogs have filed away all the bits of dog information and imprinted it to memory. Almost all of us would remember dog attacks because they are rare and awful. Attacks would have prompted our parents to warn us about them. Those who think we have just forgotten dog attacks in the past...please site you sources on diminished memory.  I'd really like to read those papers. We weren't all smokin' wacky weed in the 60's and our memories are pretty sharp. 

Another point some one mentioned. Back then I think dogs ate better than they do today. We had a Quaker processing plant just down the road. They killed horses and ground them up for dog food. The dogs got the whole horse not just the hooves and junk pieces. Back then they didn't sweep the grainery floors and dump that into dog food. Dogs ate table scraps but food was more wholesome back then.


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## martemchik

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I give up Martemchik, You are right. You are always right. There were horrible dog attacks in Baltimore in the 1960s and I just never heard of them. You and Google are, of course, the top authorities on all things that happened in the 1960s.


Maybe in BALTIMORE there weren't...but when you put a post up on a WORLDWIDE forum, claiming that dog ownership was way more responsible in the 1960s than it is today, you're not just talking about BALTIMORE. You're also talking to a majority of people who are not from Baltimore and will tell you their experiences...there haven't been vicious dog attacks in my city this year...maybe you should move and then you'll be around more responsible owners?

These statements of "back when I was young people were awesome and responsible and today all people suck and all their dogs bite people and are vicious" are just plain wrong. Today there are more dogs, there are more people with dogs, and therefore there will be more dog attacks. I'm just trying to show that these statements are impossible to make as absolutely as you're making them. Really...there wasn't a single vicious dog attack in the Baltimore area from 1960 to 1970? I find that hard to believe.


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## Jack's Dad

When I was a boy we used to sit and listen to my great grandmother tell us of the civil war (yes, the one between the states) and she came west in a wagon to California. She had no electricity growing up.
She was in her nineties and still all there when I listened to her stories. 

Our memories are what connect our past with the present. 

Flawed as they may be no one can intellectualize another persons memories.

History comes to us through peoples memories.

Don't trivialize memories. They are what allow me to keep alive in mind my 20 year old sister who died from cancer. Don't mess with peoples memories.

I don't know what else to say to anyone who does not believe that life itself and life with our dogs was different 30 to 60 years ago.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I have thought about this often and have seen similar comments from time to time. I figured I would start a thread to get some input.
> 
> *I grew up in the 1960's, in Baltimore City. * We were bad dog owners. We broke every rule. Our puppies came home by 6 weeks of age. We fed crap food. Our dogs lived outside. By WE I mean the entire city, not just my family. Dogs were only brought inside during extreme weather. We lived in row homes and our dogs ran up and down the fence line together and barked together. Once in a while someone would yell, "Shut Up!" out their window.
> 
> I walked through the alleys to my grandmother's house. I knew every dog in every yard. I knew them by name. I petted each one. They were all friendly - whether I pet them over the fence, under the fence, or through the fence. I don't know if there were obedience classes or behaviorists in the 1960s. If there were, I don't know anyone who ever used them. We didn't have the internet and television had three black and white stations. We had a library and we read books.
> 
> Sometimes, dogs got out of their yards. When they did, they didn't run around attacking children and other dogs. I don't remember a single horror story from my childhood of a dog attack. So what has changed? We took pups that were too young to be taken, undersocialized them, underexercised them and yet we didn't see the behavioral issues. Despite their poor quality of care, they also seemed to live longer.
> 
> *If you are old like me, you may have grown up with similar experiences. Please weigh in. I would love to hear opinions*.


Funny, I thought I was pretty clear from the get go, that I grew up in Baltimore City and was speaking of Baltimore City. I also invited other folk to weigh in on their experiences. I never said their experiences had to be the same as mine. I was curious. 

You aren't speaking of your own experiences, you are looking things up on the internet and continuing to say you don't believe my recollections. I really have nothing else to say about that. I don't understand your point. I had already given up. I was letting you be right, yet you continue to argue.


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## arycrest

martemchik said:


> I know what kind of attacks you're talking about and sorry, I refuse to believe they DIDN'T happen in the 60s. They happened in the 80s for sure...*cough*Denver*cough.* And I'm sure that more than a few happened in the decades before that. These types of attacks are what causes laws to change and for people to get more responsible. Once they see that a dog is no longer a tool for teaching children how to behave and a liability, they change the way they treat them. Dog ownership becomes preventative rather than reactionary.
> 
> Just a quick google search brought up a dog bite study which stated from 1966-1980, 16 deaths were attributed to GSD attacks and 8 were attributed to Pits. And those are just deaths...who knows how many hospital visits the dogs caused?


I can't comment ... perhaps serious dog attacks weren't reported back then like they are today, especially after the advent of the internet with its ability for spreading instant communications from all areas of the US, North America and the world in general??? Perhaps there weren't any/many around the United States. 

But I agree with the other poster that you seldom, if ever, heard about a serious dog attack on the news (radio or TV), in the newspapers, word of mouth, Movietone news at the theaters, etc. Did dog attacks ever happen? Probably. 

Don't forget the hours of news programs we have access to today wasn't that way many years ago. And yes, like it or not when I was young I read the papers (Washington Post and Evening Star and before that the Oregon Journal), watched the news on TV (15 minutes in the evening with John Cameron Swayze sponsored by Camel cigarettes), listened to the news on the radio (more than TV but not a lot), etc. It's a changing world, but just because it's happening today and considered important/newsworthy, doesn't mean it was important or of interest to past generations.


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## martemchik

arycrest said:


> I can't comment ... perhaps serious dog attacks weren't reported back then like they are today, especially after the advent of the internet with its ability for spreading instant communications from all areas of the US, North America and the world in general??? Perhaps there weren't any/many around the United States.
> 
> But I agree with the other poster that you seldom, if ever, heard about a serious dog attack on the news (radio or TV), in the newspapers, word of mouth, Movietone news at the theaters, etc. Did dog attacks ever happen? Probably.
> 
> Don't forget the hours of news programs we have access to today wasn't that way many years ago. And yes, like it or not when I was young I read the papers (Washington Post and Evening Star and before that the Oregon Journal), watched the news on TV (15 minutes in the evening with John Cameron Swayze sponsored by Camel cigarettes), listened to the news on the radio (more than TV but not a lot), etc. It's a changing world, but just because it's happening today and considered important/newsworthy, doesn't mean it was important or of interest to past generations.


That's my point!

It's almost ignorant to think that its the new generation of dog owners that's causing all these problems. Society hasn't changed THAT much in 50 years. I'm sorry...but I do take it personally that people are pretty much attacking today's way of life and today's dog owners by saying we're the cause of all these attacks or at least that the way WE decide to raise our dogs is the cause of the attacks.

You asked for opinions...well my opinion is that I don't hear of vicious dog attacks in the area I live in. I didn't hear of them 15 years ago when I was younger in the area I lived in then. I don't hear of lawsuits, I don't hear of many dog issues at all. The only things I do hear of are nationally "shared" on facebook until someone on my friends list decides to share it and it pops into my news feed. Usually some dog is getting abused by someone somewhere far away from me. I didn't hear about any of the attacks in Baltimore...they don't matter to people in Milwaukee. If you didn't bring it up, I'd be living in my sheltered world thinking dog attacks don't exist. I'd get older and think that things like that never happened when I was young...but wait...they did.

Sorry but the title of your thread pretty much says what you believe...today there are worse behaved dogs. I see it differently, I think the situation is the same. That's my opinion. One pocket gets worse, one gets better, many stay the same. It's the wonders of this great country we live in, every person growing up in a neighborhood has a different experience than one living in the neighborhood next to them.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

Jan I grew up in the period yopur talking about. I knew of one really bad attack b/c the dog became my uncles who guarded our family dairy farm. I remember the news and the newspaper at age 7 and 8 b/c there were three stations and one Tv so when your parents watched the news you did to. The other thing was reports of dog bites were made to animal control and were posted in either the police blotter or another section of the paper. My grandparents and parents talked about the news stories at the dinner table. I saw the news cause I was the one fixing the antennae. Other then the kid that my uncle's GSD bit . I didnt know anybody who had a serious dog bite. Why you ask ? I think b/c there were more boundaries as in this is dangerous if you mess w/ a dog you will get bit. If you walk across the farmers field his bull just might gore you. I think kids in the country still get that. I wiil use a story to demonstrate my point a few years ago two children were mauled in our area by an Akita. what the media didnt say was that the Akita was behind a 6ft solid wooden fence the kids drug over trash cans and hit the dog w/ sticks. The Akita attacked. The dog was killed . I do know that Ive worked w/ juveniles in trouble w/ the law since 1985. every year I meet more parents who blame the bank for their kids robbing it.I think as a nation more excuses are made and those excuses are often used to further litigate. Right now my least favorite attorney in the world runs 6 commercials saying Was your child bitten by a dog Stop the trauma you have suffered sue. Martemchick I work in the court system and the lure of easy money has an incredible appeal. Going back to my story re the Akita. Those kids in my day would not have been seen as victims they would have been seen as suffering from a natural consequence and there would have been little to no media coverage. We had 3 hours of news a day.People were worried re Cuban missle crisis ,moontrips ,Russia and VietNam . all of that often topped the news even locally. I would never have walked through my neighbors backyard and teased their dog b/c A. I would have gotten the crap slapped out of me by the neighbor and then again when I got home. I still know parents and neighborhoods like that they are however dwindling. While I havent googled anything I can tell you that the GSDs were covered on my dads insurance policy for the farm. They were considered guard dogs and they kept the farm from being burglarized and equipment stolen. I heard a story a few years ago that in California a burglar broke his leg in the house he broken into because he fell. His injuries were to be paid by the homeowners ins according to a court order. I hope to god that was a sick joke but I am tempted to believe it. The other fact we arenot talking about is what the drug trade has done to cities like Baltimore,Detroit ,Chicago and my home Youngstown. That particular enterprise introduced the concept of cool thugs have aggressive dogs. That might have changed the number of serious and deadly dog attacks. There is also another fact we have more dogs being bred w/ little to no consideration given to temperment ,just numbers to make money. I do agree w/ you Martemchick that back then if a pup or dog had behavioral problems they did go to the farm.
In closing I dont have research but I have some experience as well as alot of training in social science and society as a whole accepts alot of behavior they didnt once accept. I have no value judgement on this . I can say that in 1985 when I had to tell a parent that their kid was in jail my worry always how mad they would be at the kid now I worry how mad they will be at me.


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## Lucky Dog

Well I agree with "Stevenzachsmom" all the way BUT I was back in time a little more. mid/late 50s 20 miles north of Boston. Still here after all those years. Todays owners don't usually have better behaved dogs in my old guy opinion of course  Everyone had a Mutt.. **** when I look around today I still think they are great dogs. Got my fist dog around 1954ish.. Ya ya I know 80% of you weren't even born yet  Everyone in our "hood" had a dog !! Yes the big thing of the week was a dog fight. Someone had to be king for a day. BUT it happened and then it was over an all the dogs were back to playing. 
Today it's different. Somethings made things a lot better while owners now just blame the dog for whatever problem they have. Now I am not saying everyone but a lot just buy a puppy and then he is on his own. ahhhh the net.. Isn't it great !!


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## Marnie

martemchik said:


> That's my point!
> 
> It's almost ignorant to think that its the new generation of dog owners that's causing all these problems. Society hasn't changed THAT much in 50 years. I'm sorry...but I do take it personally that people are pretty much attacking today's way of life and today's dog owners by saying we're the cause of all these attacks or at least that the way WE decide to raise our dogs is the cause of the attacks.
> 
> You asked for opinions...well my opinion is that I don't hear of vicious dog attacks in the area I live in. I didn't hear of them 15 years ago when I was younger in the area I lived in then. I don't hear of lawsuits, I don't hear of many dog issues at all. The only things I do hear of are nationally "shared" on facebook until someone on my friends list decides to share it and it pops into my news feed. Usually some dog is getting abused by someone somewhere far away from me. I didn't hear about any of the attacks in Baltimore...they don't matter to people in Milwaukee. If you didn't bring it up, I'd be living in my sheltered world thinking dog attacks don't exist. I'd get older and think that things like that never happened when I was young...but wait...they did.
> 
> Sorry but the title of your thread pretty much says what you believe...today there are worse behaved dogs. I see it differently, I think the situation is the same. That's my opinion. One pocket gets worse, one gets better, many stay the same. It's the wonders of this great country we live in, every person growing up in a neighborhood has a different experience than one living in the neighborhood next to them.


If you visited the CDC (national center of disease control) statistics page they reported 431 deaths in the US due to dog attacks from 1965 to 2001. So in 36 years there were approx 12 fatalities per year. From 2005 to 2012 there were 251 or a little over 31 cases per year. A substantial increase. Especially when you consider the lax laws about restraining dogs in the 60's and 70's compared with the strict laws in the 90's and forward. They also track the breeds responsible. 2005 to 2012 Pit bulls and rottweilers in 73% of all fatal attacks. Some very interesting stats on
Pit Bull Attacks and Pit Bull Laws - Advocating on Behalf of Dog Attack Victims - DogsBite.org. There are a lot of hard facts about Pits and Rots on this site. No matter how you feel about these breeds, you have to admit that irresponsible owners with these breeds are a recipe for disaster.


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## Lucky Dog

Marnie said:


> No matter how you feel about these breeds, you have to admit that irresponsible owners with these breeds are a recipe for disaster.



We live close to a city with these types of dogs. Owners walking down the street. Couple of studded collars on along with a chain.. Ya need a chain for your "image".  As they walk the dog they will give em a kick every other step. Guess it makes em look meaner  Unbelievable !!!


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## arycrest

martemchik said:


> That's my point!
> 
> It's almost ignorant to think that its the new generation of dog owners that's causing all these problems. Society hasn't changed THAT much in 50 years. I'm sorry...but I do take it personally that people are pretty much attacking today's way of life and today's dog owners by saying we're the cause of all these attacks or at least that the way WE decide to raise our dogs is the cause of the attacks.
> 
> You asked for opinions...well my opinion is that I don't hear of vicious dog attacks in the area I live in. I didn't hear of them 15 years ago when I was younger in the area I lived in then. I don't hear of lawsuits, I don't hear of many dog issues at all. The only things I do hear of are nationally "shared" on facebook until someone on my friends list decides to share it and it pops into my news feed. Usually some dog is getting abused by someone somewhere far away from me. I didn't hear about any of the attacks in Baltimore...they don't matter to people in Milwaukee. If you didn't bring it up, I'd be living in my sheltered world thinking dog attacks don't exist. I'd get older and think that things like that never happened when I was young...but wait...they did.
> 
> Sorry but the title of your thread pretty much says what you believe...today there are worse behaved dogs. I see it differently, I think the situation is the same. That's my opinion. One pocket gets worse, one gets better, many stay the same. It's the wonders of this great country we live in, every person growing up in a neighborhood has a different experience than one living in the neighborhood next to them.


Since you're quoting me I "assume" you're addressing me??? I was attempting to agree with what you had said, giving some reasons why we didn't hear of dog attacks many years ago vs hearing about them today.

FWIW it's not "MY" thread, don't recall who started it but it wasn't me!!!


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## martemchik

arycrest said:


> Since you're quoting me I "assume" you're addressing me??? I was attempting to agree with what you had said, giving some reasons why we didn't hear of dog attacks many years ago vs hearing about them today.
> 
> FWIW it's not "MY" thread, don't recall who started it but it wasn't me!!!


Lol I was agreeing with your reasons. And the last paragraph was a statement towards OP not you.


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## Stevenzachsmom

martemchik said:


> That's my point!
> 
> It's almost ignorant to think that its the new generation of dog owners that's causing all these problems. Society hasn't changed THAT much in 50 years. I'm sorry...but I do take it personally that people are pretty much attacking today's way of life and today's dog owners by saying we're the cause of all these attacks or at least that the way WE decide to raise our dogs is the cause of the attacks.
> 
> You asked for opinions...well my opinion is that I don't hear of vicious dog attacks in the area I live in. I didn't hear of them 15 years ago when I was younger in the area I lived in then. I don't hear of lawsuits, I don't hear of many dog issues at all. The only things I do hear of are nationally "shared" on facebook until someone on my friends list decides to share it and it pops into my news feed. Usually some dog is getting abused by someone somewhere far away from me. I didn't hear about any of the attacks in Baltimore...they don't matter to people in Milwaukee. If you didn't bring it up, I'd be living in my sheltered world thinking dog attacks don't exist. I'd get older and think that things like that never happened when I was young...but wait...they did.
> 
> Sorry but the title of your thread pretty much says what you believe...today there are worse behaved dogs. I see it differently, I think the situation is the same. That's my opinion. One pocket gets worse, one gets better, many stay the same. It's the wonders of this great country we live in, every person growing up in a neighborhood has a different experience than one living in the neighborhood next to them.


I really have no idea what to say to you, nor do I understand why you are so angry. I actually meant to put a question mark after my title, though I doubt that would have made a difference to you. One of the first things I said in my post was "We were terrible dog owners." I'm sure there were also good dog owners, but I can honestly say, I don't consider the way we raised dogs good.

Many people have shared their experiences from the 60s. Some of our experiences were the same and some different. Not once have I told someone I didn't believe their story. Yes, of course you are entitled to your opinion. Your opinion, however, is just that - an opinion. It is not more or less valid than anyone else's. 

I did not call a single person in the thread ignorant, nor did I say the new generation of dog owners is causing problems. I completely disagree that society hasn't changed that much in the past 50 years. I lived it. Some things were better. Some things were worse, but they were most definitely different.


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## x11

changed??? - think of the technology available 50 years ago, impact of globalisation, war on terror, war on drugs, people having one job for life, divorce rate, murder rate, suicide rate......the world is barely recognisable in a number of measures from 50 years ago, be even less recognisable in another 50.

i think a lot of things have improved personally - younger people have no perspective of change when yr born thats the world is and you think it mostly always was and will be that way, as you age you know better.

no real better or worse imo but change defnately.


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## katdog5911

Speaking of taking the dog to the farm.... My father in law once drove a dog my husband brought home a few miles away from their house. Thought that problem was solved. Well, the next morning the dog was back... And laying on the roof of the car waiting for another ride. Lol


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## lorihd

35 years ago when i started my job (urban area) there were a couple of different dogs that were being walked. today i see a lot of pitbulls with heavy chains, unfeeling owners (they drag the dog down the street) and my favorite, dumping the dogs in the church parking lot (where i park), just horrible, i didnt live that 35 years ago. these owners today pride themselves on aggressive dogs, and i believe they breed for these tendencies. so im not shocked to hear about people being mauled. i read somewhere that the No 1 dog for dogs bites are golden retreivers, now i ask, is that because they are so popular, or they have bred out the sound temperment for the sake of beauty.


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## arycrest

martemchik said:


> Lol I was agreeing with your reasons. And the last paragraph was a statement towards OP not you.


:rofl:


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## Rino

I did not grow up in the 60s but in the 90s but I do not live in the USA...

I remember when I was a child there were friendly dogs and there were the non-friendly ones. Some dogs were free to roam, there were very few dogs behind fences and there were quite a lot of chained dogs.

People mostly went along good with dogs, but same as dogs, there were also some unfriendly people (to both animals and kids). I also remember kids getting spanked by neighbours etc if we did not behave as we should have (this was not considered child abuse back than  )

I remember getting bitten only once when I was 6 - by a large german shepherd and it was totally my fault! This dog was otherwise friendly but when he was chained he was guarding. I don't know why we behaved like that (still feel guilty about it) but the son of the dogs owner and me were running around the chained dog and throwing snowballs at him and the dog broke the chain and bit me (I deserved it, I know) as of course he would not bite his owners son. 
I was affraid to go home and tell my parents about the bite as I knew it was my fault. When my parents did find out I was smacked and told never to do it again. The point is they did not run to the neighbour telling them they have a vicious dog who needs to be put down...Later on, I still played with this same dog when he was off the chain - none of us held any grudges!

This was in the 90s and sadly the trend of globalization has brought new ways on child raising and dog raising to our place as well. Kids have all the right in the world and it is now always the dogs fault no matter what the circumstances...It is sad!


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## ODINsFREKI

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I have thought about this often and have seen similar comments from time to time. I figured I would start a thread to get some input.
> 
> I grew up in the 1960's, in Baltimore City. We were bad dog owners. We broke every rule. Our puppies came home by 6 weeks of age. We fed crap food. Our dogs lived outside. By WE I mean the entire city, not just my family. Dogs were only brought inside during extreme weather. We lived in row homes and our dogs ran up and down the fence line together and barked together. Once in a while someone would yell, "Shut Up!" out their window.
> 
> I walked through the alleys to my grandmother's house. I knew every dog in every yard. I knew them by name. I petted each one. They were all friendly - whether I pet them over the fence, under the fence, or through the fence. I don't know if there were obedience classes or behaviorists in the 1960s. If there were, I don't know anyone who ever used them. We didn't have the internet and television had three black and white stations. We had a library and we read books.
> 
> Sometimes, dogs got out of their yards. When they did, they didn't run around attacking children and other dogs. I don't remember a single horror story from my childhood of a dog attack. So what has changed? We took pups that were too young to be taken, undersocialized them, underexercised them and yet we didn't see the behavioral issues. Despite their poor quality of care, they also seemed to live longer.
> 
> If you are old like me, you may have grown up with similar experiences. Please weigh in. I would love to hear opinions.


There was also no tolerance for bad dogs. People didn't have computers and massive media to keep them informed of isolated incidents of dog attacks. It happened but you didn't hear about it unless it was local.

It was natural selection still working.


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## Tiffseagles

Sorry if someone already posted this - 15 pages is a lot to read. The number of reported dog bites (U.S.), in a society that has become increasingly more litigious, has decreased dramatically from the 1960's. I think personal experiences reflecting otherwise may just be neighborhood changes or romanticizing the past.

These are Philadelphia's reported dog bites. I grew up in the 90s in South Philly. I had multiple dogs charge me but thankfully was never bitten. Kids in our neighborhood lived in constant fear of one of the owned loose dogs. However, my aunt's horror stories from the 1960's are nothing compared to that. 









These are the numbers for Baltimore:









Source: NCRC


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## Stevenzachsmom

I wasn't specifically talking about "dog bites" when I started the thread, but all out attacks. I have no idea how bad any of the bites in the chart were. Horrific attacks would have been in the newspaper and on television. Just because we didn't have internet, doesn't mean we had no form of communication.

Here is the type of attack I am talking about. This one happened in Baltimore City last week. Perhaps we don't get as many of "this type" of attacks in 2013, but this is one too many.

Pit bull involved in owner's death had bitten before - Baltimore Sun

BTW, we had two newspapers back in the 1960's. We would have been able to read this story in both.


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## Tiffseagles

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I wasn't specifically talking about "dog bites" when I started the thread, but all out attacks. I have no idea how bad any of the bites in the chart were. Horrific attacks would have been in the newspaper and on television. Just because we didn't have internet, doesn't mean we had no form of communication.
> 
> Here is the type of attack I am talking about. This one happened in Baltimore City last week. Perhaps we don't get as many of "this type" of attacks in 2013, but this is one too many.
> 
> Pit bull involved in owner's death had bitten before - Baltimore Sun
> 
> BTW, we had two newspapers back in the 1960's. We would have been able to read this story in both.


The same site says: "Dog bite-related human fatalities have always been exceedingly rare, yet they can attract the kind of publicity that creates an impression that they are more prevalent than they actually are. *The annual total of such fatalities has risen and fallen with no discernible pattern or trend, even though the canine population in the U.S. has continued its steady increase.*" - See more at: Dog Bite-Related Fatalities | Canine Research Council

I'll look for exact numbers.


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