# 8 month old female.. To Spay or not to Spay?



## stizzi (Nov 8, 2009)

Hey guys, My girl is 8 months old and my vet advised me to get her spayed... What would you say are the pros and cons? I do not plan on breeding her. Spaying around here costs $650+. 

For those who have spayed there dogs, do you notice a difference? do they lose that drive? lose the aggression? or are they the same? I've heard in males there aggression drops, but for females its the same. Do they lose any of their personality after getting spayed? I feel like spaying is taking something away from her... She is mostly outdoors in our massive yard so I am not too worried about her bleeding everywhere for 3-4 weeks two times a year.. 

Please let me know, thanks


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

$650???????? Good grief - that's outrageous. My vet still charges right around $100, but he's definitely on the low end of pricing here in Denver. Can you find a spay/neuter clinic close by where it would be more reasonable?

My animals have all been spayed/neutered at a young age - anywhere from 6 mos. to 1 yr. My female sheltie/keeshond mix was 6 mos. old when she was spayed and she turned 18 last Sat. Lots of different opinions on when to spay/neuter, but all of my animals have lived long, healthy lives.

By the way, I saw her picture on your other thread. She is drop dead gorgeous! Congrats to you both!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mine charges about $350. There are health benefits to getting her spayed before her first heat. No...they do not lose any of their personality...my girl still has plenty to spare!!

Males will come from miles around if she's in heat. Since you don't plan to breed her and there are health benefits for her then I would get it done immediately.


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## stizzi (Nov 8, 2009)

There are animal clinics who do it for $150 but they said the dog has to be under 50 lbs... mine is 62 :-\


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## MajicForest (Aug 18, 2009)

where do you live that they are charging that much? my vet uses human grade anethesia, etc and he charges about 200.00. I would go vet shopping, but make sure and not rish your girl.

I have intact and spayed females both, poeople and vets say there are health benefits, maybe I have been lucky, but I have not noticed one way or another. Whether I am using them for breeding or not

Neutering a male to early and he does not develop the male attributes, neuter him later and I have seen their pigment drop out of their coat.

I do not have male dogs coming from miles around and my dogs have dog doors, I have male dogs living down the road that are out in the neighborhood all the time.

I think it might end up being a personal choice to spay or not. Do not let your vet push you around.

I know a breeder, has a wonderful bitch, she was not using her normal vet. The bitch was pregnant and over due, she kept calling, finally took the dog in and said do a c section. When she called later they said the pups where mummified. And the vet insisted they had to spay the female also. The owner demanded to see the pups. They where born viable and alive, there was nothing wrong. The vet just wanted to spay the female and not have any pups around. He was very pro spay and neuter. This is back woods W Virgina, but still. Those pups where worth 2500.00 each.

OK I will get off my soap box.

Personal decision.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Spaying/neutering does NOT stop aggression.
Do what you think is best for your girl.
My boy is 1 and is not yet neutered.
I will eventually do it....but now is not the time.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

When you spay a female before their first heat it is a fact that it reduces their chance of certain types of cancer significantly. This is not the same for a male dog. There are studies that show the opposite for males. Your female may grow a bit larger than she would if she hadn't been spayed but not enough to make a difference.

No, they do not lose drive but they can gain focus. No, spaying/neutering will not necessarily have an affect on aggression. That will probably be a training/socialization issue. And like I said before...my girl has personality plus.


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## stizzi (Nov 8, 2009)

thanks for everyones insight







I just found out that the Ontario Government has a high volume spay/neuter clinic in two locations here in Toronto and barrie to help fight the dog/cat overpopulation issue in the province. Its only $60!! They are funded by the government which is why it is so cheap (price is subsidized). There is a 12-14 week waiting list but I dont mind.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I got Jerzey spayed around that time. We originally tried to go through a clinic because the price was $400 but none of them had openings until Dec. or Jan (at the time we were looking it was Oct, I believe) and we didn't want to have to deal with her first heat.

I can't say that Jerzey's personality changed at all. She's the same as she's always been, in my opinion.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I would spay her if you don't plan on breeding her, but I think I would wait for the lower cost clinic. $650 is a lot of money!


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## Doggydog (May 12, 2009)

Funny... I thought the price was cheap until I read other poster comments. I can't even get an exam for what some of you pay for spays. I'm jealous. lol

I've been wondering the same thing about Jiva. She just turned 9 months and I have heard conflicting reasons to wait until after the 1st heat or not to. 

In your case, if your dog is out unsupervised, I would absolutely spay before heat. If a male can get to her he will. I once left a female in heat in a fenced pen and when I returned there was a male springer in there with her. Either he or both had dug a large tunnel under. I had never seen him before. Don't risk it.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

doggydog -- you thought $650 was cheap? (six hundred and fifty dollars)

i don't know how a vet who charges $650 for an exam can stay in business.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I would ABSOLUTELY plan on the spay. So much easier for you and your dog in the end. My bitches have never shown any change in drives/personality after teh surgery.


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## Doggydog (May 12, 2009)

Yes $650 is cheap for a spay where I am. An average office visit $125.

My last visit I brought both dogs- did puppy wellness check{no shots} 2 sets of bloodwork, 1 set of vaccinations, frontline, and pulled off 1 tick. $887.
And that vet has the lowest fee for office visit I've ever seen here.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

wow! wow!! No wonder ppl can't afford vets! And I was complaining about $80 for a visit to the tech for 3 shots!!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08wow! wow!! No wonder ppl can't afford vets! And I was complaining about $80 for a visit to the tech for 3 shots!!


seriously! i've got a whole new respect for altered dog owners in nyc. the highest i've heard of here in los angeles is $400 and that included blood work, fluids, pain meds, etc.

ridiculous.







new york


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: doggydogYes $650 is cheap for a spay where I am. An average office visit $125.
> 
> My last visit I brought both dogs- did puppy wellness check{no shots} 2 sets of bloodwork, 1 set of vaccinations, frontline, and pulled off 1 tick. $887.
> And that vet has the lowest fee for office visit I've ever seen here.



OMG! thats like what Ive paid for Kilo for a whole year!!! WOW, props to you!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

doggydog you need to cross state lines and come to CT,,we are NOT a cheap state, but we certainly don't have THAT price for a spay or wellness check!! 

I had Masi' spayed recently and it cost me 150 bucks and that was with an overnite stay!!!


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## Doggydog (May 12, 2009)

I am contemplating crossing state lines actually. I have a friend in Dover De. and I've seen a vet there that I like. I used to take Rita there. She was having repeated surgery for a tumor towards the end, if I did it at home it was around $800.+. If I did it in Dover I think I remember it was around $200-$300. I could make it even easier and locate a vet in N.J. I suppose. 
I had Coco spayed at the NYC Humane Society. That actually was very reasonable, but they're so overbooked and overwhelmed that I spent hours there at intake and several more hours for pick up. So what I saved in money I lost in time. And parking is impossible up there too, so that added an extra $40-$50. But they do soooo many spays that I think it was a very safe and easy thing for them and the dog. 
The ASPCA has a spueter van that travels to different neighborhoods in the spring and that's dirt cheap. The catch is it's first come first serve and so you have to be in the line by like 7 a.m. to have any chance. I might chance a nueter done out of a van, but I don't think I like the idea of leaving my baby girl to be spayed in a mobile unit. 

But finances aside..... is there benefits to waiting for the first heat? I've heard that the hormones travel to the brain then and so that the dog can reach full chemical or hormonal maturity. Don't know if I'm explaining that properly, just trying to regurgitate something I'd heard along the way. I know that early spay eliminates or reduces one type of cancer, but increases another. I'm confused.


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## Bcannie (Jul 8, 2009)

Doggydog...that is true, spaying early reduces one type of cancer and increases another. Another reason to wait would be for a female that has an inverted or recessed vulva, which is actually fairly common. The "innie" can pop out and quite often stay out after the first heat. If not, the dog may be faced with increased problems with frequent UTI's for the rest of it's life. Many vets don't check for this before recommending 6 month spaying.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Excuse me, why has NO ONE mentioned spay incontinence or osteosarcoma to this person? They asked for the pros and the cons, not just the pros. They can go to any vet clinic anywhere and get the pros. 

How come no one has mentioned that the dog could actually die during the surgery. Yes that is not a common outcome, but any time you put your dog under you can lose it. 

I have not had any issues with spaying, yet though Arwen has had a few problems with leaking since her spay that had NEVER happened before. However, I have a friend who lost her dog to a nueter surgery, and a bitch started having siezures after being spayed at age seven -- no history of siezures in the lines, and no prior siezures. She ended up having to put the bitch down as she stopped responding to phenobarbitol and other siezure meds. 

I currently have eight intact bitches besides the puppy and I have NO dogs hanging around my property. I have NO problem managing them, save that when one goes in heat, I substitute her sister or her mother or her niece in her dog class for a few weeks. 

How this is easier for you or the dog I cannot figure. Well, when you have the girl inside, you might need to use a diaper on her. So there is a little mess for a few weeks twice a year. Women go decades having mess for a week every month. I guess that is why it does not seem reasonable to put a dog through a surgery to eliminate a little bleeding. 

They put people on artificial hormones to prevent bone loss and brittle bones when the parts stop producing the hormones. Why should we remove these hormones from our pets?

I do not thing spaying is healthy for a bitch. I have a spayed bitch. After her spay she has had a low thyroid level. I am trying to improve that with diet. But I have read that thyroid issues can be linked to spay/neuter. She has also had a few incidents of incontinance. I hear this is a common outcome of spaying and it can happen right after the spay or years later. 

I will only spay my current and future bitches if there is a medical reason that requires a spay. I run the risk of breast cancer. However, in order for a spay to effectively lower the risk of mammary tumors, the spay must be completed long before a bitch is ready to be evaluated for show/breeding.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Your dogs are in kennels, right Sue? Or if they are not...you are with them? 

"She is mostly outdoors in our massive yard so I am not too worried about her bleeding everywhere for 3-4 weeks two times a year.."

I don't think that is the case here...and I would be worried about an accidental pregnancy.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> 
> They put people on artificial hormones to prevent bone loss and brittle bones when the parts stop producing the hormones. Why should we remove these hormones from our pets?


Actually, they are rethinking HRT because it's causing such brain shrinkage.


Also, my understanding is there is a much, much higher rate of mammary cancer than osteosarcoma and there has been no proven correlation between females, spaying and osteosarcoma but there has been a correlation between males, neuter and a higher rate of osteosarcoma. If you can provide information on females and higher rate of bone cancer I would be very interested in reading it.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

i agree that with females, it is difficult to find any meaninful empirical data that would not cause me to spay before the first heat. the benefits seem clear there and imo simply outweigh any possible benefits of waiting.

certainly with males, there seems to be much more grey area on when to do it as there seems to be some legitimate science behind both sides.

so, IMO, at 8 months id get it (spay) done before any (more) heat cycles as i believe the evidence leans much more toward more risks in the overall scheme of things (medically) by waiting/doing nothing vs doing it before the first heat.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: stizzi...
> She is mostly outdoors in our massive yard so I am not too worried about her bleeding everywhere for 3-4 weeks two times a year..
> ...


As you can see, everyone has an opinion on the spay/neuter issue. Personally, I prefer waiting until a bitch goes thru one heat - my personal preference. But ...

You have to watch them like a hawk. Having a large yard is meaningless when dealing with a bitch in heat. A roaming male may be attracted to her, and it's possible he may jump your fence, or dig under, in an attempt to get to the object of his affection. You have to stay with your girl whenever she's outside, rain and shine, unless you have some type of professional type kennel to keep her in and the romantic boys away from her. 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!


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## stizzi (Nov 8, 2009)

My fences are 7 feet high and I just got some contractors to fill in the tiny gaps at the bottom. Behind my property is a large railway track where I'm guessing stray dogs roam around.... So im really scared a male might somehow get in..

I have decided to go ahead with a spay anyways, I have read and researched on more pros then cons. I have found an animal hospital/vet here that do it for $200 which is perfectly fine.. The SPCA high volume spay clinic is $80 but the wait is 6 months+ and I have to take a day off work. She is going to be spayed in about 2 weeks... The owner didnt give me any paperwork for her shots so the vet said to come in this saturday to get her shots, and the following saturday to get spayed. Im praying it goes well


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

if you have a choice have them do the laser surgery.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Leaving a dog in a massive back yard whether spayed or not, if there is any fear that an outside animal could get in, then leaving the dog in the massive back yard on its own is a major problem. It has zero to do with the status of its reproductive health. 

Spay if you feel that is the best thing to do, but reconsider leaving the bitch in the back yard. Unless you put up a kennel with some type of dig proof base, and covered over, then your girl is simply not safe however high your fence is. It really takes very little time for a dog to dig out under a fence or to climb over them. 

Good luck.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

By the way, the dog gets no more exercise in a massive yard, then they do in a reasonable kennel if there are no other dogs or people. The dog generally finds its favorite resting spot and sleeps most of the day. 

It is no more humane to leave a dog in a huge yard, than in a ten by 15 foot kennel. It just means the dog is more likely to get full of mud, eat something bad, or get out.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Ideally you want to wait at least 2 weeks between vaccinations & scheduling any surgery (though there are vets that will vaccinate as the animals come in the door







) - this is the length of time needed for an optimum immune response (or alternatively, the point at which you can measure that the vaccines were ineffective should you be willing to titre).
She should be kept quiet for several days after the spay so maybe plan on crating her during that time, or find a doggy daycare that does 'quiet time'.

As she is outdoors, make sure that you treat regularly for worms, fleas & heartworm (there are some drugs that will cover most worms + the fleas + the HW, so you only need to give a single med); also rabies vaccine is absolutely vital.

Depending on your fence construction, some dogs become very adept at scaling the fence or tunneling under.
If she is home alone mostly, I'd look at getting a companion for her (a steady, well trained older dog rather than another pup) - dogs are pack animals rather than a solitary species. 

She is Stunning


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