# pasterns problems and weight gain issues



## maureen_mickel (Jul 17, 2011)

Hi everyone, it's been awhile. I have recently gotten an excellent german shepherd puppy, though I have been noticing that his pasterns are a little bit weak/down, his litter mates do not appear to be this way. I have talked to the breeder, we have come to the conclusion that it was the food I was feeding (Merrick Grain Free ALS), she feels that the protein is too high (38%) and that is causing the downed pasterns. I wanted to switch to fromm, only to be unable to find it at any petstore, so I switched to merrick classic puppy. On the website, the protein reads 26% so I bought the bag to come home and read that it said 30%. Do you feel that this is still too high? Shouled I exchange it?

With his weight gain, the email breeder recommended to get coconut oil, pasta, fatty yogurt, and cottage cheese so I went put and bought all of these items (along with some raw meat bones) though I am unsure of how I should feed him these items, I am afraid of feeding him too much of one thing lol!! I did feed him alot of the merrick als, he is a very active working dog and just cannot seem to keep the weight on him.


Attached, are some images of his pasterns


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## maureen_mickel (Jul 17, 2011)

A couple more things to add:

He is almost 6 months

I have been considering exchanging it for whole earth puppy


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

If you really want Fromm, you can order it. Alot of places have reasonable shipping. 

Fromm Gold Holistic Large Breed Adult Formula Dry Dog Food, 33-lb bag

As far as changing the food helping the pasterns, I don't know. I have read some threads about this...might want to search the forum. 

He is very handsome. Good luck with him.


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

They will somewhat improve with age.
That is way to high in protein for a puppy. 25% in my experience is ideal for a puppy.

Just keep him lean, low stress exercise and he should be fine.
They don't look like they bad enough are to worry about.

I wouldn't focus on having him gain to much weight. He looks good to me.


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## maureen_mickel (Jul 17, 2011)

Thank you for the replys, I switched out the merrick puppy to whole earth which has less protein and the cal/phos levels are suitable for a large breed. He is very thin thougg, you can see every rib on him :/ you may not be able to tell In these two images.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Downed pasterns is genetic. Quality diet is important. I woukd go raw but that's something I firmly believe helps the dog as a whole. There are alot of threads about how to improve this condition. 
I am hoping Carmen will see this and post, she's had great success helping dogs with this.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Google Fromm's website. You can search for local retailers there, at least 5 or 6 places available around Toledo if you still prefer that brand.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Actually, there are two schools of thought on downed pasterns. Some think that the dog is getting too much protein, and some that the dog is not getting enough. There are some articles out there to improve the condition.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Petflow. Com sells Fromm for good prices and fast delivery


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

One thing I have noticed about the many down pastern pics on the board over the years, is that it is almost always paired with very bad feet. Flat, splayed out feet - seems the two conditions are linked, which would be more an indicator of a genetic defect than a nutrition issue. 

I don't know what to suggest, maybe do a search on this forum for down pasterns, there have been a number of similar threads in the past with good advice that have helped other dogs improve.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

selzer said:


> Actually, there are two schools of thought on downed pasterns. Some think that the dog is getting too much protein, and some that the dog is not getting enough. There are some articles out there to improve the condition.


I don't believe the protein theory. I recently saw 3 puppies from one litter with downed pasterns. All fed different food. They all met at global pet foods for a get together. Not one of them knew what I was talking about when I asked about pasterns. These were not GSD's. 
Raw is high protein, unless your talking more specifics about types and digestibility etc. 

To be fair, as I look back on my last GSD's pictures, he had soft pasterns that I did not recognize at the time. He was poorly bred.

I would like to hear more about your view on this.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Castlemaid said:


> One thing I have noticed about the many down pastern pics on the board over the years, is that it is almost always paired with very bad feet. Flat, splayed out feet - seems the two conditions are linked, which would be more an indicator of a genetic defect than a nutrition issue.
> 
> I don't know what to suggest, maybe do a search on this forum for down pasterns, there have been a number of similar threads in the past with good advice that have helped other dogs improve.


Funny you mention that because these 3 dogs had awful feet...long toes and splayed. Or perhaps being splayed made the toes look longer.


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## maureen_mickel (Jul 17, 2011)

I am 100% sure that this is envirnmentally caused, here are his parents, and no dogs in his pedigree have weak pasterns. The merrick I was feeding turned out to have too much calcium aswell, I switched him to whole earth puppy. They claim on their website that it is suitable for large breeds. I would love love love to feed raw!!! But I'm afraid of doing it wrong.....so i just suppliment with it. I used to feed him fresh pet (whend I was attending the tom rose school a month ago) I switched to merrick after I left...his pasterns look like they have weakened since then......

I'll have to look at those locations for fromm!! Thanks!!!! Though I am afraid that switching the good again will qoars3 it....I think I'll wait until he eats this bag of whole earth fordt...it won't be long!


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

Saphire said:


> I don't believe the protein theory. I recently saw 3 puppies from one litter with downed pasterns. All fed different food. They all met at global pet foods for a get together. Not one of them knew what I was talking about when I asked about pasterns. These were not GSD's.
> Raw is high protein, unless your talking more specifics about types and digestibility etc.
> 
> To be fair, as I look back on my last GSD's pictures, he had soft pasterns that I did not recognize at the time. He was poorly bred.
> ...



It is ways genetic. You can tell that this pup has loose hocks also. Though things like high protein/calcium foods, over exercise, rapid growth do contribute so in essence do play part. 

There is no hard evidence which suggest that a rmd prevents or helps this.


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## maureen_mickel (Jul 17, 2011)

My bad then! I'm still learning all of this envirnmental vs. Genetic stuff. I'm sure he has a genetic predisposition to it of some sort, but the food might have influenced it. Is that right lol? His hocos are a little loose looking right now, they have been since he was a pup. His parents hocks did not look that loose, though it looks like he has had some dogs in his pedigree with the looser hocks. I don't know if it will help any, but here is his pedigree:https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/breeding.result?father=1893100&mother=651658


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

maureen_mickel said:


> My bad then! I'm still learning all of this envirnmental vs. Genetic stuff. I'm sure he has a genetic predisposition to it of some sort, but the food might have influenced it. Is that right



Spot on.
I think loose hocks and patterns are probably the biggest problem in the breed
Don't stress though. It's good that you are aware of it.
My bet is that it will improve greatly with age.
Keep him on a good dog food that's not so high in protein or calcium and contains a good amount of fat.

Keep exercise to free running and slow trott.
Do doubt he will grow to be a strong fit male


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Well my post got eaten! Be back later, but definitely go moderate in the feed. Hard to find good, science-based info on this and maybe I am googling wrong terms!

Dog Rehabilitation- Canine Rehabilitation | SylvaniaVET perhaps...


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## maureen_mickel (Jul 17, 2011)

Do you feel that this wI'll effect how his hips and elbows develop?


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Walking on uneven surfaces, hills and sand are also good. Limit all jumping down onto pasterns if possible.


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

maureen_mickel said:


> Do you feel that this wI'll effect how his hips and elbows develop?



No it should not affect hips or elbows at all.
The hock joint is a ligament which is a small band of dense, white, fibrous elastic tissue. Ligaments connect the ends of bones together in order to form a joint.

Hips sit in joints which are structures that connect individual bones and may allow bones to move against each other to cause movement.

Feeding a super high nutritional diet can sometimes make a pup look more wobbly or sore but that is also because the croup sets before the remainder are strong. 
Gsd croup starts off in 3 separate sections ( if I remember correctly)
Too much protein and calcium will cause the croup to form one piece sooner than usual which can cause it to look long or sloping. People assume that the hips are bad when they see this however that is not the case. This normally sorts it self out with age also.
However the hip joint is set by genetics only. Diet and environmental factors can only worsen if they are not good. And by diet I mean the lack of or excess of nutrition. And by excess I mean a fat puppy so I think your safe


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## maureen_mickel (Jul 17, 2011)

Thank you so much for your information and help  it was worrying me, I was going to get his prelims done but I'll wait ununtil he turns 1.


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