# Ideal Age? HELP!



## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

I'm looking to take the first big step, buying my very first GSD of course!
I would love to get one as soon as possible, but my landlord doesn't allow it. I've already bought a new house but closing is in January, and it might be hard to find a fresh litter in my area (New Jersey). The thing is, this is my very first GSD and I really want the perfect companion. Is it OK to buy a puppy at SAY, 14 weeks? 2 months? I've heard many things about a puppy being at a rebellious teenage state at around 18 weeks? Is this true? Are there any breeders you know of that have litters due in January? Or are at least 8 weeks by Late January?? 
Thanks!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

If the breeder has put time into the puppy, there is no reason why you would have any issues with buying a 14 week old pup. 

Give us a bit more information on what your goals are for your pup. How much time will you be able to put into the pup and young dog? Do you have any interests beyond just a companion? Do you have any preferences to type (show look, working lines) or do you just want the right pup for you?


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

lhczth said:


> If the breeder has put time into the puppy, there is no reason why you would have any issues with buying a 14 week old pup.
> 
> Give us a bit more information on what your goals are for your pup. How much time will you be able to put into the pup and young dog? Do you have any interests beyond just a companion? Do you have any preferences to type (show look, working lines) or do you just want the right pup for you?


Yes, i forgot to mention those loll
I want a German work line plush or short coat, although I don't want any black or white shepherds. I've been told that there are no plush in GWL but Im not sure.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Gosh, you sound like me. The only reason I bought a house was so I could have a GSD in my life again. Seriously -, And it worked!

I would only suggest that you consider this; There may indeed be fewer litters available when you close on the house in mid winter. However, there will surely be more available in the spring - even more so than are available now. The better breeders have waiting lists. You have some time to research & plan to make sure you are getting what you want. 

Is the yard of your new home fully ready for a new pup? You could use late winter to get everything just right because once the puppy is home - you may be pressed for time to do this right:shocked:

IMO - you got your house with careful planning and awesome on that! Use the same method to get your buddy that will be with you for a very long time.


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> Gosh, you sound like me. The only reason I bought a house was so I could have a GSD in my life again. Seriously -, And it worked!
> 
> I would only suggest that you consider this; There may indeed be fewer litters available when you close on the house in mid winter. However, there will surely be more available in the spring - even more so than are available now. The better breeders have waiting lists. You have some time to research & plan to make sure you are getting what you want.
> 
> ...


The house is absoulutley IDEAL! It has a pool (fenced of course!) a seperate back yard with grass, MASSIVE feced front yard, its just amazing. Everything is already perfect. I kinda been waiting to get a GSD for around 9 years..it might sound dumb but I dont think I can wait any longer! I know you have to wait for the perfect dog and all but the sooner the better! Im trying to get a pup as young as possible, around 8 or 9 weeks, but with my location and prefrences, im having a very hard time. I tend to realy love that age when thier early are all the way down and they are goofy. This is also the prime time for socialization and I would like to be the one to do that. I dont know, I might be crazy. I JUST WANT A GSD! Everyone in my household agrees we will get the dog upon second day of moving. Im a very active person. I love cycling, running, track. A german shepherd is perfect, and I honestly dont think i can survive the winter without a fluffy friend..Sounds stupid I know..Lol


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Puppies can be shipped, so you can widen your search anywhere in the country. Or maybe even plan a road trip

I've brought 3 into my home at different ages. They were 12 weeks, 8 months, and about 10 weeks. I did the same training with all three.


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

llombardo said:


> Puppies can be shipped, so you can widen your search anywhere in the country. Or maybe even plan a road trip
> 
> I've brought 3 into my home at different ages. They were 12 weeks, 8 months, and about 10 weeks. I did the same training with all three.


Im not a very big fan of shipping. Like I mentioned before, I want the absolout perfect puppy. It sounds crazy, i know, but i wanna meet the litter, the mom, dad, ect.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Understand that many very good breeders do not own the males they breed their females to so meeting the male may not be possible. 

Plush could be possible in WL, but not as common as in WGSL.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

While you are waiting, why don't you visit some breeders in your area now, see the conditions in which the dogs are raised. Are they clean, offer training, vaccinations, socialization if you cannot get a pup at 8 weeks? Best to go now while you are more objective than in January when you might be too eager and take the first puppy you see.

We have a working line female, she was the perfect puppy until she hit the adolescent stage which was about 9 months old. While you are waiting you also should visit and observe the trainers in your area, see if there are puppy play groups too for early, safe socialization.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

There really is not such a thing as an absolute perfect puppy.

I think it would be better for you, at this point, to examine what you want to DO with your dog when he matures.

Do you want to compete in IPO? If so is plush coat WL that important? (like Lisa said, plush is rare in the WLs)

Do you want a more laid back lower drive companion, if so is getting a WL that important?

Do you want to show or compete in any dog sports?

In order to get as close to perfection as possible it's best to define what you can provide in terms of exercise and stimulation and which line/personality pup will fit in best with your lifestyle.

Then decide which qualities are most important for a dog to have in order to be the best companion for you. Then you can find a breeder that breeds the type of dog that fits what you seek.

Congratulations on your new house and...

Best of luck in your puppy search! 



Raquan said:


> Im not a very big fan of shipping. Like I mentioned before, I want the absolout perfect puppy. It sounds crazy, i know, but i wanna meet the litter, the mom, dad, ect.


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> There really is not such a thing as an absolute perfect puppy.
> 
> I think it would be better for you, at this point, to examine what you want to DO with your dog when he matures.
> 
> ...


Im probably not going to do IPO, but PPD is very possible. I dont want a laid back, chill shepherd. I want an energetic one, high ball, pull, prey drive. I am a very active person overall. I plan to breed the dog once to a female Akita, then have them nuetured and spayed. Im aware of dominance issues with the Akita, but that can be worked out. Do you think telling the breeder that I plan to mate it with another breed will work against me? The Akita x Shepherd Mixes are phenomenal dogs!
Thanks!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Yes. A plan to cross to another breed would be a major red flag. Most responsible breeders are very fussy about which of their line they wish to see breed and take a sincere interest in to whom they are bred. It's red flag enough that I would not even suggest a breeder for you to look to.

Frankly, why on earth are you so fussy about a GSD that you intend to cross with an Akita? To me this sounds like you need to do some serious rethinking. You aren't keen on shipping a pup (or flying to pick one up), you want to meet the parents first (understandable to a point) but with a major goal being crossing with an Akita? Without titling the dog or participating in sport - .... 

I'd say this left me speechless but obviously, that's not exactly the case...


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

middleofnowhere said:


> Yes. A plan to cross to another breed would be a major red flag. Most responsible breeders are very fussy about which of their line they wish to see breed and take a sincere interest in to whom they are bred. It's red flag enough that I would not even suggest a breeder for you to look to.
> 
> Frankly, why on earth are you so fussy about a GSD that you intend to cross with an Akita? To me this sounds like you need to do some serious rethinking. You aren't keen on shipping a pup (or flying to pick one up), you want to meet the parents first (understandable to a point) but with a major goal being crossing with an Akita? Without titling the dog or participating in sport - ....
> 
> I'd say this left me speechless but obviously, that's not exactly the case...


The end goal is not to cross with an Akita! Im not buying a shep just to breed. He will be a loyal companion, as well as the Akita. Im saying I have a few friends who would like an Akita x Shepherd mix, and I plan on keeping two myself. In the end, My dog pack will be Male GSD, Female Akita, And two mixes of rpobbably different genders. I would never buy a GSD to have him as a stud dog, or just for breeding. Also, the dog will be participating in agility and PPD


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Akitas - you should really reconsider - very dog aggressive, I personally keep away from them. I've had two different neighbors who had them, they knew their dogs well and would not let them get closer than 10' from our GSD. She was also attacked by one she was friends with for over 6 months. You are going to end up losing your new house in legal fees.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

middleofnowhere said:


> Yes. A plan to cross to another breed would be a major red flag. Most responsible breeders are very fussy about which of their line they wish to see breed and take a sincere interest in to whom they are bred. It's red flag enough that I would not even suggest a breeder for you to look to.
> 
> Frankly, why on earth are you so fussy about a GSD that you intend to cross with an Akita? To me this sounds like you need to do some serious rethinking. You aren't keen on shipping a pup (or flying to pick one up), you want to meet the parents first (understandable to a point) but with a major goal being crossing with an Akita? Without titling the dog or participating in sport - ....
> 
> I'd say this left me speechless but obviously, that's not exactly the case...


well said


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

"The end goal is not to cross with an Akita! Im not buying a shep just to breed. He will be a loyal companion, as well as the Akita. Im saying I have a few friends who would like an Akita x Shepherd mix, and I plan on keeping two myself. In the end, My dog pack will be Male GSD, Female Akita, And two mixes of rpobbably different genders. I would never buy a GSD to have him as a stud dog, or just for breeding. Also, the dog will be participating in agility and PPD "

Those "few friends" will likely disappear when the litter is on the ground. (and they, too, are clueless) And you, novice dog owner, expect to have 1 adult gsd, 1 adult akita, and two crossbred dogs... Most jurisdictions have limits on the number of pets in a household - so are four allowed? How about 10 because your dam produces 12, you manage to place two, you are strapped with vet bills because it was a difficult pregnancy, the breeding didn't go well and the sire's penis was damaged, and darn, dog food is expensive.

I don't know what you're smokin' but I don't think it's legal in your state. 

And wait till the maintenance expense on the "perfect" pool (aka home owner's liability) starts coming in.. 

A good friend of mine raised and trained Akitas. She was very savy, had years of training dogs under her belt - and never left them together unsupervised and only certain ones together at all.

Responsible Akita breeders will have nothing to do with you. Responsible GSD breeders will have nothing to do with you. This is NOT a good plan, friends be darned.


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## MacD (Feb 8, 2014)

Chops to you for being upfront on your plan to cross breed. It takes a lot of guts to come to this type of forum and talk about such an idea. 

I am no expert, but I do know when to listen. You are getting excellent advice about why breeding two such high maintenance dogs is a very bad idea. 

Please listen to them. You will have no idea of the temperament of mixes - your friends will give you back a pup they really messed up if they don't know what they are doing. Are they experienced with these breeds? 

I have a beautiful GSD that I would not allow interaction with another GSD unsupervised because I don't know how to read them well enough. Even supervised a fight can break out and I am not capable of stopping it by myself unless I nipped it right in the beginning. I would love to get another one, but I know my limitations. I love my dog too much to take a chance so unless you envision a whole lot of crating,rotating and interacting individually with each dog, please rethink your plan. 

I am not saying that you are going to breed for sure but your posts do indicate your desire to do so. The folks responding to you are going to be blunt but they know what they are talking about. Be as open to hearing as you are with sharing please.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Here is Raquan's other thread: 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/finding-right-puppy/591241-male-female.html#post7306593

I'm with middleofnowhere.....Speechless!:crazy:

Moms


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

MacD said:


> Chops to you for being upfront on your plan to cross breed. It takes a lot of guts to come to this type of forum and talk about such an idea.
> 
> I am no expert, but I do know when to listen. You are getting excellent advice about why breeding two such high maintenance dogs is a very bad idea.
> 
> ...


Thanks!
I was surprised at the feriocity of these posts, lol
Anyways, if I can rescue an akita shep from ANYWHERE, by all means I will do it! Now I tottaly agree with all these poeple, but heres the thing. There will be NO problems with labor, my aunt, who is a vet of 20 years, will be present, even at 4 am. My grandmother had 9 children. Each of them have kids, and each of THEM have kids. Every single one of them has owned dogs all thier life. Two of them are breeders. But I TOTTALLY understant.


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Here is Raquan's other thread:
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/finding-right-puppy/591241-male-female.html#post7306593
> 
> ...


Yes, every thread I make seems to stray extremely off topic.


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## MacD (Feb 8, 2014)

Well, to me, breeding two different species is what back yard breeders do. You might think you have solid homes but it's all on you if they give the pup back and guess where they will end up? Or worse, they shuffle the dog off to a pound or get rid of it on Craigslist. 

You don't want to get a GSD unless you pick it out and it comes from a reputable breeder. Then you are going to breed it to an Akita. 

Sorry, I am very confused. The difference of 3 dogs to 2 is huge as well. Please do more research because being sorry doesn't help after the fact and even worse, when you were informed.


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

MacD said:


> Well, to me, breeding two different species is what back yard breeders do. You might think you have solid homes but it's all on you if they give the pup back and guess where they will end up? Or worse, they shuffle the dog off to a pound or get rid of it on Craigslist.
> 
> You don't want to get a GSD unless you pick it out and it comes from a reputable breeder. Then you are going to breed it to an Akita.
> 
> Sorry, I am very confused. The difference of 3 dogs to 2 is huge as well. Please do more research because being sorry doesn't help after the fact and even worse, when you were informed.


Due to all the, well, aggression of this forum, I dont think I will be breeding the two. Alll I wanted to know was if it was a good idea, but pbviously its not.
Thanks!


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## MacD (Feb 8, 2014)

Raquan, I know you are feeling attacked because I once walked in your shoes. I got my beautiful GSD from a soldier being deployed. He was 7 months old and compared to another GSD I had, a darling. I fell so in love with him that I planned on getting a female at some point and breeding them. I too have a large family who say they would love to have a GSD. 

After having my head torn off a bit when I shared my wish with experienced I started to listen .. cost of vet bills to ensure health, hips, elbows .. getting back pups that were destroyed because people didn't know how to train them. Not having the knowledge to temperament test the pups so to know which home they should go to. A long list. 

At first I thought I wasn't going to be a byb as I wasn't selling the pups, they would be gifts .. oh man. But I got over myself. 

Instead of seeing it as aggression, I saw it as passion. To improve the breed. To stop the thousands being put down every day. 

You have a huge love for dogs, let your head guide your heart and see that what is being said to you is not intending to hurt you but to stop bad breeding practices.


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

MacD said:


> Raquan, I know you are feeling attacked because I once walked in your shoes. I got my beautiful GSD from a soldier being deployed. He was 7 months old and compared to another GSD I had, a darling. I fell so in love with him that I planned on getting a female at some point and breeding them. I too have a large family who say they would love to have a GSD.
> 
> After having my head torn off a bit when I shared my wish with experienced I started to listen .. cost of vet bills to ensure health, hips, elbows .. getting back pups that were destroyed because people didn't know how to train them. Not having the knowledge to temperament test the pups so to know which home they should go to. A long list.
> 
> ...


Thank You So Much!
My best bet is to try and adopt one!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

"You have a huge love for dogs, let your head guide your heart and see that *what is being said to you is not intending to hurt you* *but to stop bad breeding practices"*

Well put MacD! I think most would agree!

Good luck Raquan!

Moms


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## MacD (Feb 8, 2014)

Well I hope you stay on the forum as once folks see you are open to learning, they will give you more info than you can imagine. 

You will get invaluable info on your new GS puppy or adopted one and assistance with any issues integrating s/he into the family. 

People don't hold grudges here once they see you want the best and are learning. 

Good luck. Mac


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

Since this discussion is closed, I invite you all to come on this thread and actually discus where a male or female is better.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/finding-right-puppy/590977-ideal-age-help.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/finding-right-puppy/591329-male-femlale-fr-real-time.html


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Well, I see this has been answered but let me put it to you this way too...a little back ground on the 'why' this isn't a good idea, genetically.

Any breeder, who cares about breeding the best German Shepherd puppy which you would be proud to own, would not just walk away from you as a puppy buyer, they would run.

A breeder who is o.k. with that is not a breeder who you want to be involved with.

So yeah, not only don't tell a breeder that, please, please don't ever mix those two.

Genetics don't blend evenly, they have dominate and recessive and then some 'crap' shoots in the middle.

Meaning you will not get a nice even blend by mixing two breeds like that together. You may get the worst of both....you may get o.k. but ultimately you'll probably end up with a dog that is not the best Akita nor the best German Shepherd.




Raquan said:


> Im probably not going to do IPO, but PPD is very possible. I dont want a laid back, chill shepherd. I want an energetic one, high ball, pull, prey drive. I am a very active person overall. I plan to breed the dog once to a female Akita, then have them nuetured and spayed. Im aware of dominance issues with the Akita, but that can be worked out. *Do you think telling the breeder that I plan to mate it with another breed will work against me?* *The Akita x Shepherd Mixes are phenomenal dogs!
> *Thanks!


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Well, I see this has been answered but let me put it to you this way too...a little back ground on the 'why' this isn't a good idea, genetically.
> 
> Any breeder, who cares about breeding the best German Shepherd puppy which you would be proud to own, would not just walk away from you as a puppy buyer, they would run.
> 
> ...


Thanks For The feedback!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

No problem.

Just remembering basic high school biology and the Punnett square. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square



Raquan said:


> Thanks For The feedback!


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> No problem.
> 
> Just remembering basic high school biology and the Punnett square.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square


Omg yes! I completly forgot about that! Lol


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Raquan said:


> Thanks!
> I was surprised at the feriocity of these posts, lol
> Anyways, if I can rescue an akita shep from ANYWHERE, by all means I will do it! Now I tottaly agree with all these poeple, but heres the thing. There will be NO problems with labor, my aunt, who is a vet of 20 years, will be present, even at 4 am. My grandmother had 9 children. Each of them have kids, and each of THEM have kids. Every single one of them has owned dogs all thier life. Two of them are breeders. But I TOTTALLY understant.


Just because you have a vet and experienced breeders present during the birth does not guarantee that there will be no problems or complications. Just something else to think about. I personally don't believe you should cross these two breeds of dogs, as you could end up with some very difficult puppies. They could take on the worst traits of both breeds. Who knows? It just doesn't seem worth the risk to me. But, you're going to do what you're going to do, I just hope you really take in the advice given to you before you make your decision. 

Also, regarding wanting a very high drive, high enery GSD because you are active... You may want to rethink this a little. I am very active. I'm outside all the time. I cycle and run nearly every day. I go hiking. None of these activities are enough for my WL GSD, and I wouldn't classify his drives or energy level as super high or unmanageable. He just needs more, if that makes sense. Exercise alone does nothing to tire him out. Constant training and nose work might make him more tired, but he still could easily get into trouble in the house if not watched carefully. I love my dog, and I was completely prepared to put in the work and time he needs, but it's a lot more than I expected.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Oops, skipped a page of replies before I posted my last reply. It's refreshing to see someone come here and actually take advice, so kudos. I wish you luck in finding a lovely companion.


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

GypsyGhost said:


> Just because you have a vet and experienced breeders present during the birth does not guarantee that there will be no problems or complications. Just something else to think about. I personally don't believe you should cross these two breeds of dogs, as you could end up with some very difficult puppies. They could take on the worst traits of both breeds. Who knows? It just doesn't seem worth the risk to me. But, you're going to do what you're going to do, I just hope you really take in the advice given to you before you make your decision.
> 
> Also, regarding wanting a very high drive, high enery GSD because you are active... You may want to rethink this a little. I am very active. I'm outside all the time. I cycle and run nearly every day. I go hiking. None of these activities are enough for my WL GSD, and I wouldn't classify his drives or energy level as super high or unmanageable. He just needs more, if that makes sense. Exercise alone does nothing to tire him out. Constant training and nose work might make him more tired, but he still could easily get into trouble in the house if not watched carefully. I love my dog, and I was completely prepared to put in the work and time he needs, but it's a lot more than I expected.


Thanks For The FeedBack! Im spending alot of time on these forums trying to soak up any info I didnt pick up in the last 9 years of studying GSDs!


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## Raquan (Oct 10, 2015)

GypsyGhost said:


> Oops, skipped a page of replies before I posted my last reply. It's refreshing to see someone come here and actually take advice, so kudos. I wish you luck in finding a lovely companion.


Thank You!


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