# Murphy @ 5months old...a fine animal



## Josh Keller (Jul 16, 2018)

Been a long while since I posted an update on Murphy. He's 5 months old now and right around 54lbs, my concerns about him not growing enough early on turned out to be unfounded. I'm still taking him everywhere with me and he's just a champ in public. Heavy traffic areas like the mall, narrow isles...nothing phases him and he doesn't bother anyone. Of course, everyone thinks he's a drug dog or that I'm LEO. Everyone at my 9 facilities still love him as well. His obedience training is spot on, he doesn't refuse commands and he's yet to destroy anything in my house while unsupervised. Well, he did gnaw on a baseboard a bit...but that's it!
His big problem is other dogs. He's simply terrified of them, big or small. He's curious and wants to sniff butts, but if they approach him he wants to get as far away as possible. I've been taking him to PetSmart training classes, beginner, intermediate, advanced and CGC twice a week. The instructor allows me to use the class as a distraction laden training ground and to try to get him comfortable with other dogs around. For the most part he's great around them, as long as they don't want to come meet him. I'm hopeful its a fear phase that he'll grow out of. 
Still amazed by this pup and very happy with him. He's really growing to be a beautiful animal.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/370552606384467/posts/1747652522007795/
I saw this today on FB if you're interested.He covered some subtle things regarding body language,timing,and not flooding.


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## Mei (Mar 30, 2018)

Oh wow, he's looking great! Looks a lot like Mei now! I took her out trick or treating with us and someone asked me if she's a LEO/military dog too lol. 

Hopefully it's just a fear phase! Have you tried a dog park, or would that be too much? I've heard lots of horror stories of dog parks but I met a friend at one nearby with his GSD and it went pretty well. I've gone back a few times!


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## Hellish (Jul 29, 2017)

Good to see Murph is doing well. I have nothing to offer on shyness or fear of other dogs. We are approaching 2 years old and I am still waiting for a first fear stage. We worked on training him to ignore other dogs when leashed because he was unmanageable at 6 months old thinking it was his divine right to get to every dog he saw for play. That has come in handy and transferred alot to off leash too. Although it also helps that playing fetch with his dad is > ALL


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## Mei (Mar 30, 2018)

I have that same vest, but in black! 

How well does it fit Murph? I need to try putting it on Mei again, but the front, like the chest part didn't fit very well. She's roughly 15/20lbs heavier than when I first put it on her, so I should try when I get home!


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## Josh Keller (Jul 16, 2018)

dogma13 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/370552606384467/posts/1747652522007795/
> I saw this today on FB if you're interested.He covered some subtle things regarding body language,timing,and not flooding.


Awesome, thank's so much. Looks very similar to what I'm doing with him. Rewarding him for showing interest and being calm, not allowing him to be overwhelmed etc. Picked up some tips I'm going to incorporate though.



Mei said:


> Have you tried a dog park, or would that be too much? I've heard lots of horror stories of dog parks but I met a friend at one nearby with his GSD and it went pretty well. I've gone back a few times!


I think that would be his personal **** on earth really. We were on leash at the park doing obedience last week and someone's big ol' goofy English Bulldog got loose and came galloping over to meet Murph. Murph screamed and yelped and tried so hard to get away. He sounded like he was actually being attacked. I just ended up jogging away from the Bulldog since they're pretty slow. Its so strange, he's never had an incident with an attack or an aggressive dog.



Mei said:


> I have that same vest, but in black!
> 
> How well does it fit Murph? I need to try putting it on Mei again, but the front, like the chest part didn't fit very well. She's roughly 15/20lbs heavier than when I first put it on her, so I should try when I get home!


Murph is 54lbs and I got the XL so I won't have to replace it again in a few months. It actually fits him pretty well, he can walk and jog in it no problem.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

He looks beautiful. Regarding his fear of other dogs. This is my 2 cents: you got him as a 6 week old pup so he has missed out at least of 3 weeks of learning appropriate dog language from his mom and litter mates. You were pretty defiant when we mentioned that we were worried about removing a puppy at that young age from the litter. You also emerged him into the deep end (the world) from what I read in your posts: over socializing maybe? He may have had bad experiences around other dogs that you were not aware of. Usually you will start to see the consequences around this time in his life. It could also be his genetic profiel. So now you have to go back to puppy raising 101 to get him more confidant around other dogs. He is at risk of becoming dog aggressive if this fear is not addressed. At this age you may not see that yet. This is my take.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Has anyone mentioned behavior modification techniques like LAT or BAT? LAT really helped my girl manage her dog aggression, which was based in fear. I would be concerned that your puppy's fear will turn to aggression. They get in a mindset of "I'll get you before you get me" If you can modify that now, maybe you can avoid that nightmare.

I would do that and look for dogs that you know are safe to walk him with. Don't force play, you are already on top of that so it doesn't need to be expanded on, but just walk with so he can choose to interact when hes ready.


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## Josh Keller (Jul 16, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> He looks beautiful. Regarding his fear of other dogs. This is my 2 cents: you got him as a 6 week old pup so he has missed out at least of 3 weeks of learning appropriate dog language from his mom and litter mates. You were pretty defiant when we mentioned that we were worried about removing a puppy at that young age from the litter. You also emerged him into the deep end (the world) from what I read in your posts: over socializing maybe? He may have had bad experiences around other dogs that you were not aware of. Usually you will start to see the consequences around this time in his life. It could also be his genetic profiel. So now you have to go back to puppy raising 101 to get him more confidant around other dogs. He is at risk of becoming dog aggressive if this fear is not addressed. At this age you may not see that yet. This is my take.


6 weeks and 5 days. Pretty speculative to say waiting another 9 days would've had any effect on what were seeing now. I guess the only way to tell will be to get my next pup at 5 weeks and see what happens. Kidding. But on a serious note if he had any bad experiences with other dogs it would've been with his litter. He's never been anywhere without me. 



Jax08 said:


> Has anyone mentioned behavior modification techniques like LAT or BAT? LAT really helped my girl manage her dog aggression, which was based in fear. I would be concerned that your puppy's fear will turn to aggression. They get in a mindset of "I'll get you before you get me" If you can modify that now, maybe you can avoid that nightmare.
> 
> I would do that and look for dogs that you know are safe to walk him with. Don't force play, you are already on top of that so it doesn't need to be expanded on, but just walk with so he can choose to interact when hes ready.


No, but I will delve into it! I'm certainly concerned it will become dog aggression. In fact I'm fairly certain it will if I can't get a handle on the fear now.


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

What a gorgeous puppy! Sooo cute with his vest! 

Please don't take him to dog parks, at least not for now as you're unsure of his behavior! They (dog parks) aren't bad but certainly some owners/dogs are! My Golden's trainer told me to avoid taking him to dog parks because there are a lot of unstable and untrained dogs in those places. Obviously you could have a great experience but also you can have a bad encounter that will affect your pup's personality for worse. 

At 5 months he's still growing into his personality so it's just not worth it. My Golden had a bad experience with another male Golden at 11 months and now he is aggressive towards them (male Goldens) and this aggression is out of fear. I'm still working on it to this day (now he's 2 years old).

Please don't let him have bad experiences. Try to socialize him with dogs you already know if possible. Dogs that are well socialized and behaved. Consistence is key!!


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## Mei (Mar 30, 2018)

It could just be me not getting the straps set up right in the front. I'll try it again when I get home tomorrow. I haven't seen her since Monday morning. My wife said last night she was moping around making whining sounds. I'm definitely her daddy! She is gonna go nuts tomorrow when I get home! 

Good luck with Murph and I hope you guys are able to work through it. I'm sure you'll get him where you want him to be, based off how much time you spend with him.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Josh Keller said:


> 6 weeks and 5 days. Pretty speculative to say waiting another 9 days would've had any effect on what were seeing now.


Maybe not to you, but to a pup it makes a lot of difference. I got them at 10 weeks and the difference is noticeable. Again, you will only notice the difference when they hit young adolescence like your dog.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

well the puppy is 5 months old now and Josh can't go back to do things differently. No sense in beating him over the head with it so how about some useful advice instead of picking a fight.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> Has anyone mentioned behavior modification techniques like LAT or BAT? LAT really helped my girl manage her dog aggression, which was based in fear. I would be concerned that your puppy's fear will turn to aggression. They get in a mindset of "I'll get you before you get me" If you can modify that now, maybe you can avoid that nightmare.
> 
> I would do that and look for dogs that you know are safe to walk him with. Don't force play, you are already on top of that so it doesn't need to be expanded on, but just walk with so he can choose to interact when hes ready.





Josh Keller said:


> No, but I will delve into it! I'm certainly concerned it will become dog aggression. In fact I'm fairly certain it will if I can't get a handle on the fear now.


Mine was already into full blown aggression so I used LAT and a correction. Others really like BAT but I never used that so know very little about it. This might still be a life long management issue but the fact that you are aware of the problem this early might fix that. What part of TX are you in? Maybe someone knows a better trainer than the Petsmart ones.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

From my perspective, this is not uncommon behavior in a 5 month old puppy. Contrary to what others have said, I think your puppy is fine even though you ripped him from his litter, for absolutely no reason at all, so young! 

To anyone reading this thread, please lookup previous threads as to why Josh did what he did with this puppy...

IMHO, your puppy is no different than many. Give him time, keep negative experiences to a minimum, and treat encounters with other dogs as low key as you're able. There's nothing "wrong" with your puppy...and yes, given the right exposure and training he'll be fine. I truly believe it's more common than people let on... much more common!

Each dog or puppy is different in what they need to get beyond this stuff...watch your pup, adjust your reaction accordingly, and he and you will be fine!

Still want to see the updated buckle you're wearing now though....could it be the lack of buckle that's really creating this lack of confidence in your puppy? LOL!


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

There is some research out there that shows getting a pup at 7 weeks is better than 8, I don't necessarily agree, but I don't think that is the root of the issue. 

It's genetics.

If you can find a good trainer, now is the time to address this, early is best. But you need someone who really knows their stuff and GSDs. 

He is a good looking dog.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> well the puppy is 5 months old now and Josh can't go back to do things differently. No sense in beating him over the head with it so how about some useful advice instead of picking a fight.


Wasn't picking a fight; explaining the possible reason for the dog's behavior to help others prevent unexpected issues by adopting too early. He already has gotten good advice so I didn't need to repeat it, that's all there was to it


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

Murphy is a handsome little guy, lucky you! My Rio is right about the same age, and has also started barking at strange dogs we encounter on hikes. He didn’t used to and I got him when he was nine, almost ten weeks old. I believe it is age related and am not too concerned, when he does this I distract him and make him refocus on me. He will do anything for a treat!

Also, my older dog is a GSD/Doberman mix that I picked up at not even five weeks old. Not by choice, mind you. He’s two and a half now and has blossomed into a handsome young man, he turned out just fine. He also grew up with other older, stable dogs however.


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## Josh Keller (Jul 16, 2018)

gsdworld7 said:


> What a gorgeous puppy! Sooo cute with his vest!
> 
> Please don't take him to dog parks, at least not for now as you're unsure of his behavior! They (dog parks) aren't bad but certainly some owners/dogs are! My Golden's trainer told me to avoid taking him to dog parks because there are a lot of unstable and untrained dogs in those places. Obviously you could have a great experience but also you can have a bad encounter that will affect your pup's personality for worse.
> 
> Please don't let him have bad experiences. Try to socialize him with dogs you already know if possible. Dogs that are well socialized and behaved. Consistence is key!!


I would never, ever take him to a dog park. First of all the majority of the dogs around here are of the breed which shall not be spoken of so that's a turn off. Mostly though I just think dog parks in general aren't a great idea, especially not for the type of dog I'm attempting to raise Murph to be.



Jax08 said:


> Mine was already into full blown aggression so I used LAT and a correction. Others really like BAT but I never used that so know very little about it. This might still be a life long management issue but the fact that you are aware of the problem this early might fix that. What part of TX are you in? Maybe someone knows a better trainer than the Petsmart ones.


I'm in Odessa TX (West TX). There's not much out here that I've found, although I did locate one trainer through some of the Police Officers I train with, but he's over an hour away...so its tricky. I'm not letting the PetSmart trainer do anything with Murph, I'm just using the class setting to work obedience around distractions and give a lot of praise and positive reinforcement when he's calmly observing other dogs without fear or barking. She (the trainer) is really cool about letting us do our own thing and attending whatever classes I want. 



Jax08 said:


> well the puppy is 5 months old now and Josh can't go back to do things differently. No sense in beating him over the head with it so how about some useful advice instead of picking a fight.


Thanks Jax!



tim_s_adams said:


> From my perspective, this is not uncommon behavior in a 5 month old puppy. Contrary to what others have said, I think your puppy is fine even though you ripped him from his litter, for absolutely no reason at all, so young!
> 
> To anyone reading this thread, please lookup previous threads as to why Josh did what he did with this puppy...
> 
> ...


Thanks a million, reading that makes me feel a bit more confident about the situation. I've been hoping its a phase, but taking actions to overcome it as best as possible anyway. 

My buckle will always be Texas sir! haha



Muskeg said:


> There is some research out there that shows getting a pup at 7 weeks is better than 8, I don't necessarily agree, but I don't think that is the root of the issue.
> 
> It's genetics.
> 
> ...


These are the times I wish I lived in the big city. If any of you have a reference for experienced trainers in Odessa/Midland TX please let me know asap!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

wow. You are literally 8 hours from NOWHERE. 

You could ask on this page if anyone knows trainers in your area
https://www.facebook.com/groups/IPOTraining/

Good trainers are worth the drive. You don't have to go weekly. Take a lesson, work on what you learned and go back in 2-3 weeks.


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## Custom Billet (Mar 10, 2018)

Mine had that phase at around 5 months. Now at 10 months, we are going through it again.....

I just talked to my vet about it today. She is a holistic vet, and can really pick out personality changes. She said that if she was fearful from a puppy, all the way through to 10 months, that would be a problem that you would have to deal with for life. 

If she is pretty sound of mind generally, and then suddenly has change to fearfulness, it is most likely a stage that she is going through. Keep calm, Don't react, move forward and let her work it out.


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