# What shots do my older dogs need?



## Bridget01 (Jun 27, 2016)

I have three senior dogs: 13 year old lab, 10 year old lab, approximately 10 year old small terrier.

I love my vet, but he has been a bit slow, in my opinion, about realizing that the dogs don't need as many annual vaccinations as they used to think.

What is the Canine DA2PP vaccine? Is this for distemper and parvo? They have one of my labs due for it after receiving a three-year shot, but the terrier they say is due after one year. I have read somewhere that it is the _same shot_, so why three years for one dog and only one year for the other?

Apparently, they are also due for the Leptospirosis shot after one year. I feel this is important for my dogs to have, but unsure whether they need it every single year??

The rabies is, of course, by law, so I wouldn't consider letting them go without that one. But does anyone have opinions about whether senior dogs need all of these shots? I have also read that in many cases senior dogs don't need any more shots at all, ever. Thanks.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

They must be immune by now. Rabies, you have to follow the legal requirements. I don't give any shots after their first year. I am planning a titer after 5 years to check for immunity.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Only rabies and DA2PP are on a 3-year cycle. Yes, that's the distemper and parvo shot.

The lepto booster is only good for 12 months (and full protection likely fades even sooner than that). If you have lepto in your area, it's one that I wouldn't skip -- if not caught quickly, it causes rapid kidney failure. Ask if your vet is seeing cases of lepto in dogs, in the clinic. 

Rabies is available a 3-year shot. Your dog may still have immunity (and that could be checked with a titer), but in some states, you are legally required to get the shot anyway. You'll have to research your own state's requirements on that. We've had a thread recently about what the penalties for the dog can be for skipping it in places where it's required.

Bordatella is needed every 6 months if you board. Canine flu is an annual booster. That's one that you can also make a geographic decision on (if you are in the states that had the bad outbreak, or the contiguous states, you might consider it, but if you are several states away, maybe not).


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Rabies is required by law in most states so not much choice there. When my previous dogs were seniors my vet did not argue with my choice to opt not to give any other vaccines. 

Lifelong Immunity: Why Are Vets Pushing Back?

Vaccination Interviews with Dr. Ron Schultz ? May 2013 - Pet Health - Green Acres Kennel Shop


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Magwart said:


> Only rabies and DA2PP are on a 3-year cycle. Yes, that's the distemper and parvo shot.



I thought DA2PP was quad cocktail of (1)distemper, (2)adenovirus-2, (3)parainfluenza and (4)parvovirus? Not just a Dist/Parvo?

You can titer for Distemper and Parvo and if testing shows sufficient coverage, you would not have to get them. 
If one is sufficient and one is not after titer results......you can ask for a "single" vac.


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

I would just do rabies


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## cherub737 (May 31, 2010)

I agree, Rabies if required by law. My female lived to be 14 yrs and she only had her puppy shots...nothing after that but rabies. I do titer every year but at the end of her 14 yrs, she was still with good immunity. Anything else would really depend on where you live and what you do with your dogs. If they are in high wildlife areas then you may consider additional...but also checking that most vaccines given only cover a few strains. A good place to look is on mercola.com and look under "healthy pets" Dr. Karen Becker has numerous videos on vaccines...and by those testing who opt themselves to keep it to a minimum.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

cherub737 said:


> I agree, Rabies if required by law. My female lived to be 14 yrs and she only had her puppy shots...nothing after that but rabies. I do titer every year but at the end of her 14 yrs, she was still with good immunity. Anything else would really depend on where you live and what you do with your dogs. If they are in high wildlife areas then you may consider additional...but also checking that most vaccines given only cover a few strains. A good place to look is on mercola.com and look under "healthy pets" Dr. Karen Becker has numerous videos on vaccines...and by those testing who opt themselves to keep it to a minimum.


We live in wild life area and I am sure the dog gets re-vaccinated all the time by natural ways.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I was just saw today about vets going up against the government because of over vaccinating. I was at work so I didn't read it but I'm thinking it's about rabies since it's the government,


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I would titer and watch parvo immunities. I know someone who lost an 8 yr old GSD to parvo when they brought in a puppy from a shelter who died of parvo. Their dog had been immunized but not recently and apparently was not immune.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

AAHA guidelines- Read that and read Dr. Dodds website
https://www.aaha.org/public_documents/professional/guidelines/caninevaccineguidelines.pdf

I would titer the dogs and see where their levels are. Make your decision from there. But there is zero reason to re vaccinate yearly.


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## Bridget01 (Jun 27, 2016)

Think I'm gonna have trouble with my husband, as I spoke to him about our old dogs not probably needing the distemper/parvo shot, and he is staunchly in favor of "whatever the vet says to do, we should do." In his defense, we do like our vet and he has never steered us wrong. I think I will at least argue that none of the senior dogs need it yearly.

I was reading the article linked in one response that talks about the vets insisting on the shots to keep us bringing our dogs in yearly, and that resonated with me as a truth. I also wonder if, since the evidence is mounting about the yearly shots being unnecessary, they are starting to use the heartworm test in the same way. I have lived in this state almost all my life and I know when we have mosquitoes and when we don't. I have never understood why, when I keep my dogs on the heartworm preventative all during mosquito season, they insist on giving the heartworm test yearly. Now they are refusing to sell us the preventative if we don't have the test, and I sort of resent it. And, in our state, you can't mail order it, so they are really holding us up.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Bridget01 said:


> Think I'm gonna have trouble with my husband, as I spoke to him about our old dogs not probably needing the distemper/parvo shot, and he is staunchly in favor of "whatever the vet says to do, we should do." In his defense, we do like our vet and he has never steered us wrong. I think I will at least argue that none of the senior dogs need it yearly.



Both of my dogs had ONE parvo and ONE distemper (vet approved) when they were 16 weeks old, and they have *never* had another one.

They are now 10 1/2 and 9 and and their titers just came back as FULLY covered! 

Get them titered and show proof to your Hubby!:wink2: 
It's worth the extra $$$

Lifelong Immunity: Why Are Vets Pushing Back? 


Moms


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Bridget01 said:


> I have never understood why, when I keep my dogs on the heartworm preventative all during mosquito season, they insist on giving the heartworm test yearly. Now they are refusing to sell us the preventative if we don't have the test, and I sort of resent it. And, in our state, you can't mail order it, so they are really holding us up.


AFAIK, that HW test is a requirement to issue a prescription in the entire U.S. I think it's FDA-mandated. No U.S. vet can sell you this prescription product without an annual HW test -- please don't resent your vet for following the rules. No legitimate mail order pharmacy in the U.S. will sell it without a vet RX either.

Here's why it's needed: HW meds fail sometimes. In my area of the U.S., we have a strain emerging that's resistant to prevention, and MANY people have experienced a "breakthrough" infection even when never missing a year-round dose. Even in areas without resistance, user-error is rampant (and even encouraged in a lot of well-meaning but mistaken Internet posts), and dogs reportedly sometimes turn up positive because of such user-error. You're already making a decision to give only part of the year (which is not recommended by the American HW Assoc., in part due to earlier and earlier mosquito emergence), so re-checking is simply prudent. 

Since you trust your vet, you should have an open dialogue about your concerns, and take printouts of articles you'd like to talk about. Many vets want to know what clients are reading, so that they can help them sort out reliable sources from unreliable ones. Please give your vet the courtesy of that dialogue, since he's been there for you in the past. You may be astonished how open he is to your concerns.


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## Bridget01 (Jun 27, 2016)

Oh. I didn't realize the HW annual testing was a law. Hope I didn't offend anyone.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Vets also see very sick dogs. They don't see the dogs who are healthy and have high immunities. They see the ones where it fails. So they will usually side with the safest course, which is yearly or every three years, depending on the disease. Mine always give bordetella, but I no longer board, so I don't need it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The hw test is not law. Dispensing prescription med school without proper testing is. If a dog is having posted. And given the pills, it can kill them. Totally different topic than vaccines


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> If a dog is having posted. And given the pills, it can kill them.


This used to be vet dogma, but the thinking on this is changing. There was a theory that the HW prevention products would cause a sudden microfilariae die off in HW+ dogs--and put the dog into shock. That's been debunked, as far as I know. I'm told by vets who work with a lot of HW+ dogs that there is a risk of that with a very high dose of ivermectin (i.e., the people who try to use cattle ivermectin on dogs and overdose the dog every month, or when dogs get treated for demodex at 200x the dose needed for HW prevention). At the ultra-low dose of the HW prevention products, though, most can be safely given to HW+ dogs, though some are better than others. They need to be on something prior to treatment so that they don't get new worms (and the AHA treatment protocol requires it). Knowing they're HW+ is likely to shift them to a different product than they might otherwise have gotten, though--at least with a HW-knowledgeable vet.

The risk of dispensing HW meds to HW+ dogs seems to be coalescing right now around the resistance problem. The reason we probably have resistance emerging in the Deep South is that ivermectin has been used for slow-kill treatment in HW+ dogs for decades down here, where most people can't afford immiticide treatment. The prevalence of slow-kill probably brought on the resistance.

I have a dim recollection that there was a push to get the FDA to make some HW prevention OTC, and remove the need for RX and testing. I believe that the paper that documented ivermectin-resistance came out about the same time, and that pretty well tanked the chance of the FDA loosening up these meds.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I just want to say...I hate Autocorrect. I was not drunk-posting.

And no, my vet will not dispense medicine without running the test. Period.


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## Bridget01 (Jun 27, 2016)

Haha Jax, I knew that was what the problem was....and understood you anyway!


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## annie827 (Jan 11, 2005)

I gave my puppies rabies, parvovirus and distemper, single shots, 2 weeks apart. They get titered yearly and still have immunity at 10 years old. I definitely think that our pet are being over vaccinated.
Unfortunately, if you license your dog, the rabies vaccine is mandated either every year or every 3 years, depends where you live, and titers aren't accepted as immunity, as yet.
Hopefully, the laws will change, as people and vets are starting to spread awareness.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

AAHA guidlines and, if your board your dogs, you will have fewer options to deviate. Even though my vet will titer for Distemper and Parvo they will not board if I do not maintain them. May or may not be a consideration for you.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

annie827 said:


> I gave my puppies rabies, parvovirus and distemper, single shots, 2 weeks apart. They get titered yearly and still have immunity at 10 years old. I definitely think that our pet are being over vaccinated.
> Unfortunately, if you license your dog, the rabies vaccine is mandated either every year or every 3 years, depends where you live, and titers aren't accepted as immunity, as yet.
> Hopefully, the laws will change, as people and vets are starting to spread awareness.


Same here. and never had a dog get sick. Rabies titers are accepted in our county. Even when she is titered for Rabies and has gotten her licence renewed, if she would bite someone she would be considered unvaccinated and be quarantined. I have to decide on this next year but lean towards titering.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

As far as using mercola.com. as a resource, please don't. He is an alternative medicine "practioner" ( whack job), who had his medical license suspended. Even if he were not a crazy-cat, he is certainly not a veterinarian. Just my opinion. I also struggle with deciding which shots to get for my dogs, especially since moving from the US to Costa Rica.My one dog is a year since any shots. He had to have alot of vaccinations to legally enter the country here.


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## Craig Caughlin (Oct 17, 2007)

I live in Sacramento, California and I have titer tests routinely performed on my dogs. 

My veterinarian draws the blood and separates it for me. I then send the samples myself to Kansas State University Rabies Laboratory for rabies testing and School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison for distemper and parvo testing.

When the results show my dogs have sufficient antibodies, my veterinarian writes me a letter that I provide to the County of Sacramento and they issue my rabies license.

Craig


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Craig Caughlin said:


> When the results show my dogs have sufficient antibodies, my veterinarian writes me a letter that I provide to the County of Sacramento and they issue my rabies license.
> 
> Craig


What is the protocol when your dog does bite someone, even though you have proof of good titers and a license?


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## Craig Caughlin (Oct 17, 2007)

I don't know about any protocol but my rebuttal would be to ask what proof another dog owner has that their animal is, fact, immunized against rabies *without *a titer test? 

Just sticking a syringe in a dog proves nothing if the shot wasn't administered properly, but a titer test is *proof positive*, game over, that my dog has sufficient antibodies in their blood stream to protect them against rabies or I doubt the County of Sacramento and their veterinarians would issue my dogs a license.

Craig


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Craig Caughlin said:


> I don't know about any protocol but my rebuttal would be to ask what proof another dog owner has that their animal is, fact, immunized against rabies *without *a titer test?
> 
> Just sticking a syringe in a dog proves nothing if the shot wasn't administered properly, but a titer test is *proof positive*, game over, that my dog has sufficient antibodies in their blood stream to protect them against rabies or I doubt the County of Sacramento and their veterinarians would issue my dogs a license.
> 
> Craig


Very true. Unfortunately common sense does not prevail.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Titered dogs are treated as unvaccinated, regardless of the titer results, in jurisdictions that don't recognize titering. While you hire a lawyer and go to court to argue science, your dog will be impounded, put in the rabies hold of an animal shelter (a/k/a the "bite ward" where all the scary, crazy dogs are housed), handled on a catch pole by staff who wear protective gear and will be scared of the dog, etc. It's the most stressful possible way to quarantine a dog -- most of them come out traumatized. Meanwhile, a judge would look at the state law and find in some states that there's NO DISCRETION to recognize titering, so they have to enforce the law s because that is what the Legislature said -- regardless what the science says. To put this differently, titering might not even be admissible in court in jurisdictions that don't allow discretion to recognize it, so your "proof positive" would be useless.

That's in jurisdictions that allow quarantine of unvaxed dogs -- in my state, the AC Director generally orders unvaxed dogs EUTHANIZED immediately after being seized after a bite, so that their heads can be severed and sent to the state lab for rabies analysis. The reason they move fast on killing the dog and don't wait to argue about it is that we do have some rabies cases, and the bite victim needs to know whether to start post-exposure rabies injections immediately. Titering could be totally ignored by our AC Director because the state law is quite specific in its wording --there's no wiggle room for alternatives to vaccination. It's black and white -- and a mere scratch can count as a bite because of how rabies transmits.

You must know your local laws on rabies vax and titering in order to make an informed choice on whether your dog has any risk. Some of the state laws are quite medieval. A few states are fairly enlightened. You need to know which one you live in, and what your possible consequences are.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

My dogs get puppy series then one year booster. Thats it, thats all. 
Healthy adult dogs are unlikely to get parvo, although they can spread it. And my old vet was light years ahead of his time with vaccine protocol.


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