# Carma IPO Protection video, 3/21/14



## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Making closer steps towards the routine. Focusing on good, active aggression in the guarding (vs her squeaky prey park), secondary obedience, and targeting on the long bites.

https://vimeo.com/89934192


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Very nice, I see high in trial coming up soon for her 1! How's her tracking?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Packen said:


> Very nice, I see high in trial coming up soon for her 1! How's her tracking?


Thank you! Her tracking is good, we just need more experience at this point. We are rusty from having so much snow, but got back to it this weekend for the first time and got 3 solid days in for the first time since late November. I did get some video that I am working on putting together. Calling for snow again tomorrow of course


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

Very nice work. I am sure that you will do well with her.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Zahnburg said:


> Very nice work. I am sure that you will do well with her.


Thank you! 

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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Awesome work, another great video


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Very nice. I'm not the kinda person that gets any use from people just viewing my video and telling me how nice it is, I personally want constructive discussion about it... sooo I'm assuming you want the same...

Some questions (Just questions, nothing implied... Curiosity is my motivation). 

In the first minute (I paused to comment), noticed she's setting up stick side and doing a little hunting for the stick (or maybe you've used a ball behind the helpers back or something) before she goes to focused on the helper. 
At 1:09, why did the helper mark her moving more to the stick side? It appeared to be a reaction from you walking up to her. What was the motivation for marking that?
Is that a solar panel array in the background? Just curious if you're club is "green"
At ~2:25... the down at the corner of the blind and then call out... I assume that was done that way so you're not screwing with her guarding? If thats how you train the call out, why do you think she turns when you come behind the blind? I'm wondering if you weren't constantly calling her out/picking her up from the guarding why she turns
At ~2:35 she appeared perfectly straight (from the camera angle anyway), why did the helper move her to favor the stick side? Or was she on the sleeve side and that was moved to centered and the camera just makes it hard to see?

Very nice though, prettier OB than mine . If you really want to up the aggression, I'd do much much shorter, more intense sessions... one or two bites at most and done. And outside the blind. If you are working higher aggression and doing so much work in one session its counter productive


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> Very nice. I'm not the kinda person that gets any use from people just viewing my video and telling me how nice it is, I personally want constructive discussion about it... sooo I'm assuming you want the same...
> 
> 
> Some questions (Just questions, nothing implied... Curiosity is my motivation).
> ...


Answers to 1,2 and 5:
My personal preference is to set her up stick side. She has a whole lot of prey, and produces a much stronger guard when we push her stick side, rather that sleeve side. It really isn't any points off (to my understanding) whether they guard dead center, sleeve side or stick side, but I know I will have the stronger guarding if she is focused more stick side. It's ok if she eyeballs the stick a bit at this point in her training because that is what is keeping her aggression going, and I would much rather have that than have her barking at the sleeve 

3. It is a field of solar panels, property of the field we rent. I don't know if we are "green", but they apparently are 

4. I start the call out from the corner in earlier training, but I'm not sure what you mean by her turning when I come behind the blind? We have done a handful of corner call outs before, but this was her first actual call out of the blind during guarding. I didn't notice any anticipation from her, but maybe you saw something that I missed.

I do appreciate any criticism. This is the first dog I am hoping to actually do more than just title and really want to compete with, so I welcome anything seen by others. Its why I take the videos


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

GatorDog said:


> Answers to 1,2 and 5:
> My personal preference is to set her up stick side. She has a whole lot of prey, and produces a much stronger guard when we push her stick side, rather that sleeve side. It really isn't any points off (to my understanding) whether they guard dead center, sleeve side or stick side, but I know I will have the stronger guarding if she is focused more stick side. It's ok if she eyeballs the stick a bit at this point in her training because that is what is keeping her aggression going, and I would much rather have that than have her barking at the sleeve
> 
> 3. It is a field of solar panels, property of the field we rent. I don't know if we are "green", but they apparently are
> ...


In my experience, once you really turn on the aggression it will not go away where ever you set her up... so in that case rather than make her set up stick side to get the aggression, I'd get the aggression outside of the blind, and then bring it into the B&H in the blind later but keep her straight.

If you watch the video, whenever you walk up closely or walk behind her she begins shifting to the stick more... either to keep an eye on you to prepare for a call out, or something else. But she seemed to consistently do it in that video when I watched it (can't rewatch at the moment). Its not that one thing will cost points now, but anything you don't watch closely tends to snowball until it *does* become an issue... just something to be aware of and manage.

I'd also be very cautious with using the stick to get aggression as the stick in the escape, side transport, and courage test could become a problem.


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## lesslis (Sep 23, 2007)

Fantastic. Not even close to be able to offer constructive criticism so for selfish, want to learn, reasons, is ecollar tool of choice? You handle it well. Love all the verbal praise!


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> In my experience, once you really turn on the aggression it will not go away where ever you set her up... so in that case rather than make her set up stick side to get the aggression, I'd get the aggression outside of the blind, and then bring it into the B&H in the blind later but keep her straight.
> 
> If you watch the video, whenever you walk up closely or walk behind her she begins shifting to the stick more... either to keep an eye on you to prepare for a call out, or something else. But she seemed to consistently do it in that video when I watched it (can't rewatch at the moment). Its not that one thing will cost points now, but anything you don't watch closely tends to snowball until it *does* become an issue... just something to be aware of and manage.
> 
> I'd also be very cautious with using the stick to get aggression as the stick in the escape, side transport, and courage test could become a problem.


Thanks. I'll have to re watch and take a look. She reads body cues from both me and the helper very quickly, so it could be either. I really don't care if she's straight or not though right now. As long as she's not sitting in the corner sleeve side like I see so many othet dogs do, I will be happy. Chances are that once she is more mature and settles in to her natural aggression, she'll balance out straight anyways. 

I always expect to see some anticipation at the beginning stages of learning a new exercise, but to me, that just shows that she's thinking, which isn't a bad thing. It means she knows the exercise. I can work on the rest of it after and build up the tolerance to the anticipation along the way. 

We don't really use the stick to bring out aggression because anything that the helper threatens her with, she bites and takes out of their hand. She has been agitated by the stick side when coming around the blind to kick her further into aggression and I believe that's why she keyed right in there in that one guard. Again, fine with me. She's showing aggression and power rather than coming in yapping at the sleeve. 

What I am looking for is for her to come into the blind expecting a fight..and not just yipping. Also depends on the presence of the helper and if she thinks she can muscle him around and he's not going to put up a fight, she will go right back into a being a prey monster.

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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

lesslis said:


> Fantastic. Not even close to be able to offer constructive criticism so for selfish, want to learn, reasons, is ecollar tool of choice? You handle it well. Love all the verbal praise!


Thank you! For correction purposes, I prefer the response to the e collar with this dog for the most part. I honestly don't think I use it in protection much other than a tiny bit in the back transport, and if we are working on any outs. I over do it with the verbal praise sometimes  

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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

GatorDog said:


> Thanks. I'll have to re watch and take a look. She reads body cues from both me and the helper very quickly, so it could be either. I really don't care if she's straight or not though right now. As long as she's not sitting in the corner sleeve side like I see so many othet dogs do, I will be happy. Chances are that once she is more mature and settles in to her natural aggression, she'll balance out straight anyways.
> 
> I always expect to see some anticipation at the beginning stages of learning a new exercise, but to me, that just shows that she's thinking, which isn't a bad thing. It means she knows the exercise. I can work on the rest of it after and build up the tolerance to the anticipation along the way.
> 
> ...


I agree with the above and think you're on the right track. Because she is a "prey monster", she won't naturally "settle into aggression", you'll need to foster it, encourage it, and train it... but once its turned on, its on for good for the most part. My female is similar, and she'll often set up a little sleeve side, however any helper that works her knows very clearly she is not in prey. *and* if you're wanting to go far into the dark side with aggression, its safer for the helper to keep the sleeve between him and the dog anyway.


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## lesslis (Sep 23, 2007)

Lol, yep I go to far with my voice. Trying to balance it. I certainly see a strong happy team in high competition.


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## Lynn_P (Mar 17, 2004)

Alexis, it looks really, REALLY nice.. her secondary obedience awesome!


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

I don't have anything constructive to add, but I always enjoy your videos. They really make me forward to my pup coming home. I'm looking forward to participating in IPO.


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