# Who owns or will be owning a Fraserglen Nog x Jadzea Pup



## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Hello Everyone,

First off, I hope this is the right section for this as there could be a couple places of which this could go, but to me this seems like the best place. 

As some of you know I have just made a deposit on this litter not long ago and am very excited for May when the puppies will be going home. After talking to 2 current owners of Nog x Jadzea pups and at least one other person who has a deposit on this litter, I wonder how many others on this forum have a pup from this pairing or a deposit on this litter. So, if anyone has a pup or will be getting a pup from this pairing feel free to let me know below! It would be super to hear about your experiences with the pups or sire/dam of the litter or what your plans are with your pup. I think it may also be fun to stay in contact with you all to see how the pups progress or to help each other on the journey.

If you have a pup from this pairing be sure to show some pictures as I am sure everyone would like to see!

Sincerely, 
Andre


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Based on what owners from a prior breeding have told, what is your guess as to the general temperament of the litter?


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

"The puppies are expected to be healthy, within the breed standard, heavy boned with stable temperaments. Previous breeding displayed superior natural focus and trainability. They will make excellent sport/working dogs and remarkable companions. All puppies are expected to be solid black."


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Based on what owners from a prior breeding have told, what is your guess as to the general temperament of the litter?


Pups seem to all be very confident, easily trained, high energy. But it is hard to say as the pups are probably more or less 4-5 months old as of right now. Carmen the breeder of Nog said the entire pedigree of Nog has natural tracking ability and is very focused on pleasing its owner. I am not too sure about Jadzea and her pedigree. Sheena the breeder said the dogs would do well in IGP and other puppy buyers from the last litter have done well so far.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I think well is a relative term. Most DDR dogs don’t have the flash in obedience and protection that judges like to see. They does not mean they are lacking, but just don’t fit the mold of IGP judging in the obedience and protection phases. That also doesn’t mean they can’t be titled. In some IGP circles, there is a bias toward DDR dogs because they are not on the extreme side.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I think well is a relative term. Most DDR dogs don’t have the flash in obedience and protection that judges like to see. They does not mean they are lacking, but just don’t fit the mold of IGP judging in the obedience and protection phases. That also doesn’t mean they can’t be titled. In some IGP circles, there is a bias toward DDR dogs because they are not on the extreme side.


I know Carmens dogs also have a good amount of West German in their pedigree which may even things out a bit more as well.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I don't know why fraserglen doesn't show pics of their breeding pairs on the website. I want pics!


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

WNGD said:


> I don't know why fraserglen doesn't show pics of their breeding pairs on the website. I want pics!


They show pics of the pups at a week-ish old but other than that we are out of luck. I wish they updated the pics or added more pics of their dogs though.


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## AnisL (Nov 26, 2020)

I will visit as soon as they let me and take a couple of pictures and try to film the pair if that’s alright with her. I had a short video of the pair sent to me by Sheena but no pictures maybe I’ll find a way to put it here.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> I think well is a relative term. Most DDR dogs don’t have the flash in obedience and protection that judges like to see. They does not mean they are lacking, but just don’t fit the mold of IGP judging in the obedience and protection phases. That also doesn’t mean they can’t be titled. In some IGP circles, there is a bias toward DDR dogs because they are not on the extreme side.


Valor is just 8 months. He's looking like he would be a fantastic MIL/LE dog. Loads of confidence. His hunt drive is extreme (12 minutes running hard on a search with no handler intervention). Great handler focus. Very forward when suspicious. 

He has good grips, but he's not exceptional. He's great on suede, fire hose and softer jute, but doesn't like harder tugs yet. Bites deep and fairly hard on things he likes to bite. 

He is actually snappier in OB than I thought he would be. If he's in drive, he's fairly quick and solid in his movements. He's not house fly snappy, but he's better than I thought he would be.

He is shockingly athletic for his age and size. He moves very well, has great body awareness, graceful and powerful in motion.

Tracking is natural for him, as it is with most Carmspack dogs. Nosework is very easy to train and he is becoming very stimulated by the search itself. He likes the reward but would rather go work than keep it.

If I had to pick a job for him right now, I'd say military.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

AnisL said:


> I will visit as soon as they let me and take a couple of pictures and try to film the pair if that’s alright with her. I had a short video of the pair sent to me by Sheena but no pictures maybe I’ll find a way to put it here.


Send it to me on Facebook and I'll put it on my YouTube if you don't have one.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

AnisL said:


> I will visit as soon as they let me and take a couple of pictures and try to film the pair if that’s alright with her. I had a short video of the pair sent to me by Sheena but no pictures maybe I’ll find a way to put it here.


Short video of the parents? Can you send me too please?


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

You mentioned grips. That tends to be the gold standard in most sports but is not that important in a police dog as long as the other traits are there with hunt drive being an example. Footstep tracking in IGP is mostly an obedience exercise and high hunt drive is not required. Just some examples of how IGP is looking for more of a performance than useful working traits.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

From Sheena: This is one of the male pups from that litter. Owners are over the moon happy with him. High energy, confident and fearless very much like his Dad!










From Sheena: Here is a little video of them this summer. Nog is the one retrieving and Jadzea is the one ripping him off lol


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

David Winners said:


> From Sheena: This is one of the male pups from that litter. Owners are over the moon happy with him. High energy, confident and fearless very much like his Dad!
> 
> View attachment 567783
> 
> ...


Thank you for this David!!! I am extremely excited about this pairing.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

If you go to Fraserglen's home page and scroll to the bottom of the page, it has links to their males and females.

Fraserglen


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Galathiel said:


> If you go to Fraserglen's home page and scroll to the bottom of the page, it has links to their males and females.
> 
> Fraserglen


Yes it does, thank you! But only 1 picture of the dog, and I think we all just want more


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Litter after yours should be mine. And yes more pics are needed.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> Litter after yours should be mine. And yes more pics are needed.


We will have half siblings  Have you made a deposit yet?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

No deposit as yet. Need to wait a bit longer. The litter I am looking at will be dual sire, so maybe related to yours maybe not. 
It's the bitch that I like and either sire should produce what I like, it's really not a thing for me since I am simply looking for a companion. I can handle either variation, and I just want a healthy pup.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> No deposit as yet. Need to wait a bit longer. The litter I am looking at will be dual sire, so maybe related to yours maybe not.
> It's the bitch that I like and either sire should produce what I like, it's really not a thing for me since I am simply looking for a companion. I can handle either variation, and I just want a healthy pup.


Oh ok! You are looking at a Gus pup  David may get jealous, I think he has been considering getting a second pup out of Gus. Super exciting though! I look forward to hearing more when you have made your official decision.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Maybe Gus, maybe Nog. I don't really care as long as its Ellie Mae. Have a look at her sire! And siblings.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> Maybe Gus, maybe Nog. I don't really care as long as its Ellie Mae. Have a look at her sire! And siblings.


Wow! I see lots of SCHH 3 in her pedigree. I could not find her siblings but I guess they are just as impressive. Will you be doing sports with your pup?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I don't do bite sports. Obedience and some form of nose/scent work. 
I promised Carmen an obedience title so that's my only competitive goal.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> I don't do bite sports. Obedience and some form of nose/scent work.
> I promised Carmen an obedience title so that's my only competitive goal.


I think these dogs will excel in Nosework. Valor has off the charts hunt drive.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> I don't do bite sports. Obedience and some form of nose/scent work.
> I promised Carmen an obedience title so that's my only competitive goal.


Cool! I am interested in nose / scent work as well and maybe try bite work but will see how things progress. 
Carmen is awesome, talked with her for an hour before I made a decision and was blown away with how much she knew the lines and each and every dog in the pedigree.


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## AlexLafram (Oct 17, 2020)

I love my Nog dog 
And I am working with a super successful trainer and breeder (IGP) that absolutely adores Kai too
His only critique? Kai’s grip needs work, well that can be worked on, it’s not for lack of bulldozing his way into him as he’s cracking the whip loudly and pretending to hit him- 
In fact he’s the first to say, “Kai doesn’t even blink when I make quick large movements, he just looks right at me”
So the grips, we will work on. 
I will title him, he may not be the flashiest dog on the field
My trainer did mention that he’d probably rock protection training


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

AlexLafram said:


> I love my Nog dog
> And I am working with a super successful trainer and breeder (IGP) that absolutely adores Kai too
> His only critique? Kai’s grip needs work, well that can be worked on, it’s not for lack of bulldozing his way into him as he’s cracking the whip loudly and pretending to hit him-
> In fact he’s the first to say, “Kai doesn’t even blink when I make quick large movements, he just looks right at me”
> ...


Super! He settles well in home as well?


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## AlexLafram (Oct 17, 2020)

SuperAndre said:


> Super! He settles well in home as well?


Yes 
He’s settled right now


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I don't think you can tell how a dog will mature in different ways. I have said my dog was a maniac as a pup, nonstop biting to the point when he was older I'd punch him in the face and he would just come back harder. Decided after a few punches, that wasn't good for our relationship and decided I'd just walked inside and leave him outside. He tore wooden 2 x 4 legs off a workbench. He would charge me or my wife and hit us center mass. He knocked her down several times doing that and broke a couple pair of her glasses. It was an issue of having to use severe punishment or manage it the best I could and wait for maturity to kick in. At around 16 months he started to calm some. Now at three, he is perfect in the house and is calm with us but has plenty of drive for sport as well as aggression. I think sometimes people mistake hyperactivity as drive. Once he matured and as I continually channeled his drive through training he settled very well in the house. In the car and yard he shows aggression toward strangers and has arsed up on me a few times and I just called him to heel and things were settled again.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Galathiel said:


> If you go to Fraserglen's home page and scroll to the bottom of the page, it has links to their males and females.
> 
> Fraserglen


Ah, that makes more sense, thanks. Sometimes it pays to scroll


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

SuperAndre said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> First off, I hope this is the right section for this as there could be a couple places of which this could go, but to me this seems like the best place.
> 
> ...


I have a deposit down on this litter as well! Excited is an understatement, May can't come fast enough! It will definitely be neat to stay in contact and see how they all grow up.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

bchevs said:


> I have a deposit down on this litter as well! Excited is an understatement, May can't come fast enough! It will definitely be neat to stay in contact and see how they all grow up.


Oh, believe me I know. My only coping mechanism right now is talking with others who have pups out of this pairing. @AlexLafram and @X2444 have been amazing to talk to. 

Yes for sure about staying in contact!

Are you looking at getting a male or female?


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

SuperAndre said:


> Oh, believe me I know. My only coping mechanism right now is talking with others who have pups out of this pairing. @AlexLafram and @X2444 have been amazing to talk to.
> 
> Yes for sure about staying in contact!
> 
> Are you looking at getting a male or female?


I'm thinking likely female, but I'd get a male if the personality were right. I already have a male at home so I think he'd be happier with a female, but he'd put up with either.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

bchevs said:


> I'm thinking likely female, but I'd get a male if the personality were right. I already have a male at home so I think he'd be happier with a female, but he'd put up with either.


Cool! Definitely keep me posted


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

Noticed some updated puppy pictures on Fraserglen's website today!!






Fraserglen Kennels - Ontario German Shepherd Breeders


Fraserglen Kennels Reg’d has been breeding German Shepherds who are “ready” for over 25 years, offering German Shepherd puppies, studs, and females across Ontario & Canada.




fraserglenkennels.com


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

bchevs said:


> Noticed some updated puppy pictures on Fraserglen's website today!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think they have been there a couple weeks. Do you know which one is yours?  How much longer til you pick your pup up, must be soon now?


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

SuperAndre said:


> I think they have been there a couple weeks. Do you know which one is yours?  How much longer til you pick your pup up, must be soon now?


Have they?! I don't know how I missed that, I've been keeping an eye for pictures haha
My pup will be out of the litter going home in May though, so I've still got a bit of a wait!


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

bchevs said:


> Have they?! I don't know how I missed that, I've been keeping an eye for pictures haha
> My pup will be out of the litter going home in May though, so I've still got a bit of a wait!


Oh shoot, my bad. I mistook you for another user who is getting a pup out of this litter. I forgot you are getting a Nog / Jadzea pup like me!


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> Litter after yours should be mine. And yes more pics are needed.


Is this still the plan for you?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

SuperAndre said:


> Is this still the plan for you?


As far as I know. Why? Did you think I was scared off by misinformation? Lol.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> As far as I know. Why? Did you think I was scared off by misinformation? Lol.


Seems like a lot of people are backing out. Plus your asking about the NYC breeder made me wonder.

Good to hear you aren't


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

As I stated before, if I wanted to impress judges I would find a breeder who impressed judges. Since there are no titles for working dogs, that criteria for me would be pointless. I want a working dog. And good working dogs seldom impress anyone except their handlers.
I am satisfied with a dam that has produced working dogs and a sire who has been evaluated by working dog trainers. I will not be swayed by the opinions of people who spew misinformation and have never handled a working dog. I will take as gospel the opinion of a breeder who has produced generations of working dogs and that of people who have handled and trained working dogs. Both parents have passing hip scores and are DM clear. 
The proof is in the pudding.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> As I stated before, if I wanted to impress judges I would find a breeder who impressed judges. Since there are no titles for working dogs, that criteria for me would be pointless. I want a working dog. And good working dogs seldom impress anyone except their handlers.
> I am satisfied with a dam that has produced working dogs and a sire who has been evaluated by working dog trainers. I will not be swayed by the opinions of people who spew misinformation and have never handled a working dog. I will take as gospel the opinion of a breeder who has produced generations of working dogs and that of people who have handled and trained working dogs. Both parents have passing hip scores and are DM clear.
> The proof is in the pudding.


100%

I can't wait for May  3 more months


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Sabis mom said:


> As I stated before, if I wanted to impress judges I would find a breeder who impressed judges. Since there are no titles for working dogs, that criteria for me would be pointless. I want a working dog. And good working dogs seldom impress anyone except their handlers.
> I am satisfied with a dam that has produced working dogs and a sire who has been evaluated by working dog trainers. I will not be swayed by the opinions of people who spew misinformation and have never handled a working dog. I will take as gospel the opinion of a breeder who has produced generations of working dogs and that of people who have handled and trained working dogs. Both parents have passing hip scores and are DM clear.
> The proof is in the pudding.


How exciting.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

SuperAndre said:


> 100%
> 
> I can't wait for May  3 more months


It will be here before you know it but will feel like a lifetime


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

BigOzzy2018 said:


> It will be here before you know it but will feel like a lifetime


It's felt like a lifetime. I started my search for a breeder over a year ago. I feel confident with my decision though so it was time well spent researching.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

BigOzzy2018 said:


> How exciting.


Nothing set in stone. Breeding has not happened yet and I am only interested in a female so we will see. My other option is a Wolfstraum pup.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> Nothing set in stone. Breeding has not happened yet and I am only interested in a female so we will see. My other option is a Wolfstraum pup.


How come female? Seems like no one wants females... only one person has requested a female for the litter I have a deposit on.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

SuperAndre said:


> How come female? Seems like no one wants females... only one person has requested a female for the litter I have a deposit on.


Because I just don't seem to be able to work males as well. I had three male patrol dogs before Sabs, and I have owned a few males. I just can't get it to really click. Something about snotty, irrational bitches works for me. Lol.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> Because I just don't seem to be able to work males as well. I had three male patrol dogs before Sabs, and I have owned a few males. I just can't get it to really click. Something about snotty, irrational bitches works for me. Lol.


Fair enough


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> Because I just don't seem to be able to work males as well. I had three male patrol dogs before Sabs, and I have owned a few males. I just can't get it to really click. Something about snotty, irrational bitches works for me. Lol.


I really understand this. I have a big soft spot in my heart for strong bitches. I appreciate their snark. Some of that has to go back to my first working dog being Fama. I'm happy that I got a male though. That light hearted, goofy nature is what I need right now and he adores my wife.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Working females are not common. Most good ones get held back for breeding. I think it has created a misconception that they can't work. A good bitch is an unstoppable force. I always thought it was a maternal thing. Mess with their pack and you will get shredded. The good ones have incredible work ethic. 
Bud was a goofball, and I adored that about him, but the bond was never really there. Not the way it was/is with the girls.


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

I've requested a female but I do really love my males. I'm sure either would work for my situation but I think ultimately Whiskey will get along better with a female. I've found the males to be so easy going, it makes them a lot of fun to work with, but I'm also just looking for a companion dog to play around with some scent work, agility etc, nothing serious. I grew up with female dogs too and have nothing against them, we just tend to butt heads more lol.

I think it's a bit like horses - geldings are easier to get along with, they can be clowns lol. Mares can be harder, but once you do bond with them you've got an incredibly strong bond and they'll do just about anything for you, you just might have a few arguments along the way lol


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sabis mom said:


> 1.
> Nothing set in stone. Breeding has not happened yet and I am only interested in a female so we will see. My other option is a Wolfstraum pup.
> 
> 2. Working females are not common. Most good ones get held back for breeding. I think it has created a misconception that they can't work. A good bitch is an unstoppable force. I always thought it was a maternal thing. Mess with their pack and you will get shredded. The good ones have incredible work ethic.



Well - I like females too! My first, SG Kyra FH - 6x Sch3, IPO3, WH, KKL1 CD, CGC was solid, strong and had her own agenda !!! As one German judge led off his critique for a 3 in protection after a frustrating first 2 phases - NOW I SEE WHY YOU TRIAL THIS DOG! Powerful in bitework.....Csabre, her daughter even better because I added in biddability....produced V rated dogs in conformation and work - and not just for IPwhatever......strong strong wonderful heart dog female.......have made a few mistakes letting some go.....have 2 Lucca pups on co-owns for breeding....a strong female is hard to come by, and even harder to produce..........when I see grips and natural focus on 9 week olds and fiesty personalities....I hate to give them up! Too bad you can't do one now!

Lee


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> As I stated before, if I wanted to impress judges I would find a breeder who impressed judges. Since there are no titles for working dogs, that criteria for me would be pointless. I want a working dog. And good working dogs seldom impress anyone except their handlers.
> I am satisfied with a dam that has produced working dogs and a sire who has been evaluated by working dog trainers. I will not be swayed by the opinions of people who spew misinformation and have never handled a working dog. I will take as gospel the opinion of a breeder who has produced generations of working dogs and that of people who have handled and trained working dogs. Both parents have passing hip scores and are DM clear.
> The proof is in the pudding.


Plus you can get me to babysit


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

wolfstraum said:


> ...I hate to give them up! Too bad you can't do one now


I wish I could, and I am tossing around some ideas. My first priority is the dog that has given me her best for the last decade though. I know you respect that and it solidifies my opinion of you, both as a breeder and a person.
If I can get her on solid ground I will absolutely move forward with a pup.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

4 females and now 2 males, I can't say I like or prefer one more than the other or know for sure what I'd get next. I had bitches when I was young, then when I was still single, then when I had young children. Moved on to males when everyone in the house was an adult, just to see the difference. 

No big deal either way.


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## EgansMom (Apr 18, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> A good bitch is an unstoppable force. I always thought it was a maternal thing. Mess with their pack and you will get shredded. The good ones have incredible work ethic.


100% agree. My first 28yrs ago was a female and she was one of a kind and heaven help anyone who tried to mess with me or her little lamb (my son). 
My second - a male- had a big heart and I loved him and there was a good bond but not not like my female. With her it was like we moved and thought as one. Hard to explain.
My third and current female pup is feisty and I don't think I have passed all her tests yet ! lol.
She is certainly smarter than me and it has been more difficult to earn her trust but when we are out...there's teamwork and synchronicity. We also butt heads - two strong females learning to love, trust and respect one another.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Less than 10% of military dogs are females. One that has what it takes is a special girl.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> Less than 10% of military dogs are females. One that has what it takes is a special girl.
> View attachment 570116


Interesting, I did not know that.
What about police?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

WNGD said:


> Interesting, I did not know that.
> What about police?


i’ve always heard that it was about the same...
figure, coming into season twice a year could be problematic.


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