# westminster kennel club



## BUBBAGSD (Jul 16, 2010)

The best of breed for german shepherds for 2011 is GCH Can GVX Sel Winsome's Love Remembears . What a beautiful moving bitch its too bad it was such a small ring, seen her two years in a row at the canadian nationals in kitchener . Congrats to her owners


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm not the one to critique, but coming from a show line lover, I wasn't too impressed. I tend to favor the german show lines more, but there are some american/canadian line dogs that I like too. 

Something about that gate didn't seem right. Kind of like that video going around about pedigree dogs. This dog just seemed a little too much (half dog / half frog type thing going on) - didn't seem to really flow like a GSD should.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Westminster Dog Show: A Look Back at the 5 Most Recent Prize Pooches [VIDEOS]

Story on what the previous Best In Show winners are doing now.


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I watched the GSD and was wondering if that gait is something that's trained or is it natural?


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Lovie looked lovely. Clean coming and going. Suspended and flowing in movement even in the small space. 

She is a Canadian GVX and was Select 2 US National.

I know the dogs are extreme by many people's standards. But, they are much better than the bad fad of some years ago. Hocks were moving straight. I saw one who was standing a bit cow-hocked. Males masculine looking too.

It is a natural gait. They do have be trained how to do in the ring, but the movement of the dog is what displys the conformation and is not trained.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Does anyone have a link for her? I googled and all that came up was that topic. No pics whatsoever of her nor any videos.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Mrs.K said:


> Does anyone have a link for her? I googled and all that came up was that topic. No pics whatsoever of her nor any videos.


Same here... I couldn't find much in terms of pictures. Found info on other shows she was entered in, but that was about it.


----------



## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

The Westminster Kennel Club | Video - Herding - German Shepherd Dog


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

gagsd said:


> The Westminster Kennel Club | Video - Herding - German Shepherd Dog


Those are supposed to be "best of the breed" ?


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> Those are supposed to be "best of the breed" ?


I didn't want to be the first to insult the poor dog but I agree. I don't see what makes that dog the "best". 
It's a nice looking dog but I don't see what sets it apart from other GSDs.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

They all looked like your typical american/canadian show lines. Not everyones cup of tea, but the judges seem to like them. 

They actually looked like they moved in the link gagsd provided than what was on tv last night. I was not impressed at all with what i saw last night.

I know what you're saying though..


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Was that a sable I saw? It looks really cow hocked ... 

I have to say that I think the GSD's looked better this year, but still not what I would consider "good".


----------



## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Most people on this forum seem to like the working dog conformation. So, the Westminster group is not going to be popular. They had nice coats,,give them that! I thought the Mals looked neat!


----------



## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Mrs.K said:


> Those are supposed to be "best of the breed" ?


Well it's the best of what showed up to be judged. There are probably better Am bred dogs out there, they just weren't there on this particular day.....
________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


----------



## gsdheeler (Apr 12, 2010)

The rings are so small the dogs really don't have the room to gait.


----------



## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I would like to start inundating the show rings with working line dogs. Then they have to 'put them up' if they are the majority of dogs in the ring. They judge the dogs that show up at confirmation rings. And place them, based on what shows up. The Westminster is a bit different than other dog shows. You have to be 'invited' to go. Perhaps not every dog that was invited, showed up either. They are striking to look at, but not my cup of tea in conformation.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Please come show your working line dogs. We would enjoy seeing them, and if you give the judges another style of dog to choose, he just might!


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

That is why I want to show my working lines. Everybody is complaining but almost nobody seems to step up to show them. I WILL! 

Let us get situated, buy our first house, move yet again and have me get the two bitches over, Judge grow into an age where I can show him and I'll go into the ring.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Andaka said:


> Please come show your working line dogs. We would enjoy seeing them, and if you give the judges another style of dog to choose, he just might!


I have been doing some reading and looking into conformation classes in my area as I would love to bring my next pup (working lines) out to give it a try. If nothing more than the socialization aspect this venue has to offer.

I think giving the public a view of all the "types" of GSD's will really be educational for everyone.


----------



## CharlieandMaya (Feb 6, 2011)

I agree. I think it would be great if they would add the working line GSD's to the ring, even as a separate 'type', as they have with many breeds. Such as with the Bull Terriers and Cocker's. Why not with the GSD too? I'd totally help out after getting my dog and step into a show ring with him/her. It'd be cool to see the working line owners change the perspectives of the two different types and show what the working lines can bring to the table.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I am not all in the now about conformation, but those dogs do look better than most I have seen, or what is portrayed to the general public.

I think getting working lines into shows is a great idea.


----------



## cindy_s (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks for the link. I'm going to be a glass half full kind of person here. I was really happy to see a move away from the most extreme. I've been to shows many years back where the winner was the dog least likely to be able to make it up a flight of steps. They were horrible. I remember that dog Dallas, and thought, finally the breeders are starting to get it. But they seemed to go right back to what they knew. Many of these dogs were still a bit weak in the hind end and cow hocked, but over all, I think it was a much sounder lot than I've seen in the past. As a WL person, it's hard not to pick them apart, but they seem much improved.


----------



## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Mrs.K said:


> That is why I want to show my working lines. Everybody is complaining but almost nobody seems to step up to show them. I WILL!
> 
> Let us get situated, buy our first house, move yet again and have me get the two bitches over, Judge grow into an age where I can show him and I'll go into the ring.


Bravo Mrs. K! I for one will cheer you on......unfortunately not in person as I'm in Colorado.... No one steps up to show the WL's because they are convinced (and rightly so) that they will get nowhere, at least not with AKC. However perhaps the "right" judge is out there for you, and again I applaud your determination. Go for it!!!
________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Ble BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


----------



## BUBBAGSD (Jul 16, 2010)

In the show rings in ontario , when the FCI judges come over from australia and europe , they have a tendency to pick the german working and showlines. Unfortunately there are not alot of the these dogs being shown at this time... for those interested


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes, yes bring your working lines into the show ring. Then you can listen to all the crappy comments, like -- those are the best... 1/2 dog 1/2 frog going on, blah blah blah. They will say similar nasty comments about your working line dogs. 

I am sorry, but listening to working line people berate the show lines just gets old. Go out and show your dogs. Then you can complain about how the judges never put them up. Win win situation.


----------



## Smoktya (Jun 8, 2010)

i just love how the guy in the beginning of the video whacks the dog. jackass


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

selzer said:


> Yes, yes bring your working lines into the show ring. Then you can listen to all the crappy comments, like -- those are the best... 1/2 dog 1/2 frog going on, blah blah blah. They will say similar nasty comments about your working line dogs.


I'd love to see some working lines in the ring next to the show lines. I think the general public would be totally confused, but it sure would be interesting to see which was the public favorite. 

As for getting nasty comments, is anyone who shows or trials dogs immune?


----------



## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I'd love to see some working lines in the ring next to the show lines. I think the general public would be totally confused, but it sure would be interesting to see which was the public favorite.
> 
> As for getting nasty comments, is anyone who shows or trials dogs immune?


No, no-one is immune - it's a dog eat dog world (pun intended.) I had friends who showed Malamutes - the politics and general nastiness were evident in those rings too. Anyone who is involved with showing has to have a fairly thick skin, because it isn't necessarily the best dog that wins - often it's the most aggressively promoted, with a very well known handler, which gets the nod. You need a lot of bucks to get to something like Westminster.
____________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Anja1Blue said:


> No, no-one is immune - it's a dog eat dog world (pun intended.) I had friends who showed Malamutes - the politics and general nastiness were evident in those rings too. Anyone who is involved with showing has to have a fairly thick skin, because it isn't necessarily the best dog that wins - often it's the most aggressively promoted, with a very well known handler, which gets the nod. You need a lot of bucks to get to something like Westminster.
> ____________________________________________
> Susan
> 
> ...


I was just talking about this subject with my trainer last night. The general dog show confirmation ring is a dog eat dog place. The dogs that are promoted the most get the most attention from judges. They advertise in journals judges read, etc to put their dog's picture out there so the judges recognize them in the ring and judges do have their favorites. It isn't always the best dog that wins. I know of one occasion where a paid handler told a friend of mine that her dog was much better than the one he was handling and that it should have won but that it wouldn't win with her showing it as an unknown person. He did hang out with her and talked to her where the judges could see them together for an hour or so and her dog won the Best Bitch in the next showing. Of course that doesn't mean that she doesn't have one of the best bitch Aussie's, it just means that you get judged by who you know in the show ring. Her Aussie is related to Biance.


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

This can be the case at times but not always. We have been put up over dogs handled by Jimmy and Kent. Heck, once I was on the lead for 4 points and for sure I don't "know" anyone. You can find judges who are their own person. 

It is complex in the show world though. One has to do some homework. Learn the judges, learn the type they may put up etc.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I was thinking about showing once I get a Golden and Rough Collie. But I might stick with UKC since I would be doing it for fun. Now I am having second thoughts.


----------



## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Was that a sable I saw? It looks really cow hocked ...
> 
> I have to say that I think the GSD's looked better this year, but still not what I would consider "good".


I was about to say the sables hind end was awful.I mean you can't get more cow hocked than that.And one of the others was pretty weak too.Even when they are not stacked they are pretty low slung down there.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I have a feeling that if more working lines join the show ring, we'll get a new breed from the AKC lol. That's what it looks like happens to all the other "related breeds" then there will be saddleback/sable/black GSDs as seperate breeds. Like the colored and all white bull terrier...are they really seperate breeds?


----------



## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

ponyfarm said:


> Most people on this forum seem to like the working dog conformation. So, the Westminster group is not going to be popular. They had nice coats,,give them that! I thought the Mals looked neat!


I thought they looked FAT.


----------



## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

No comment on the GSD, but does anyone know why the Tibetan Mastiff wasn't in the group ring.  Ch. Drakyi's Golden Moment ("Midas") took BOB but I didn't see it on TSN during judging.


----------



## csaiz (Dec 21, 2006)

One of the GSD's was actually bred by members of my local GSD Club:happyboogie: who are nice people to boot and do rescue


----------



## JPF (Feb 5, 2011)

*aren't they supposed to be working dogs?*

I mean that they are shown under the "working group" and yet working lines do not do well in the show ring so they need show lines. Something seems wrong here to me.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Actually they are shown in the "Herding Group".


----------



## JPF (Feb 5, 2011)

Andaka said:


> Actually they are shown in the "Herding Group".


ok...but isn't my point still valid? Herding is work. Just seems like the original purpose of the breed has been subverted. And I don't only have this complaint with gsds.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

How do you believe that the original purpose of the breed has been "subverted"?


----------



## JPF (Feb 5, 2011)

subverted in the fact that an extremely angulated back does not bode well for a functional working dog.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

And on what do you base this conclusion?


----------



## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

I didn't get to see the herding group this year; thanks for sharing the video!


----------



## JPF (Feb 5, 2011)

Andaka said:


> And on what do you base this conclusion?


I base it on what dogs are used for actual work and what aren't...you don't see show lines being used for work because severe angulation may look good for trotting but doesnt allow the dog to be as agile or jump as well. It also may cause instability in the hind quarters (keep in mind im not saying HD). Also keep in mind im not arguing against ANY angulation just against what I perceive as a radical departure from what gsd's looked like in the past. It is just so extreme in the showlines.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

And what is your definition of "work"? Is it a job such as SAR, LE, service dog, or is it Schutzhund, or does it include other dog sports such as herding and agility?


----------



## JPF (Feb 5, 2011)

Andaka said:


> And what is your definition of "work"? Is it a job such as SAR, LE, service dog, or is it Schutzhund, or does it include other dog sports such as herding and agility?


those would all be considered work. But regardless of my definition of work...breeding the dogs so that their trot in the show ring is "gracefull" is stupid and wrongheaded. Besides, the dogs end up looking like frogs.


----------



## irongrl (May 24, 2010)

Smoktya said:


> i just love how the guy in the beginning of the video whacks the dog. jackass


 
I just watched the video and I had to replay the first part to be sure I saw what I thought I saw. Wow.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

JPF said:


> those would all be considered work. But regardless of my definition of work...breeding the dogs so that their trot in the show ring is "gracefull" is stupid and wrongheaded. Besides, the dogs end up looking like frogs.


 
I'll keep my "frogs", thank you.

Ch Keno UD HSAs OA



















Ch Kizzy HSAs RE



















Ch Tag CD RAE2


----------



## JPF (Feb 5, 2011)

Andaka said:


> I'll keep my "frogs", thank you.
> 
> Ch Keno UD HSAs OA
> 
> ...


and thats great...it is just my opinion and you have yours.


----------



## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Andaka...I'll keep my WGSL "frogs" too...but I'll also keep my WL dogs also.
*I think your "frogs" should be kept also....


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Andaka your dogs are beautiful!


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Thanks, Jessie. I think so too. And they are useful.


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Rerun said:


> I thought they looked FAT.


I agree, they looked a bit 'fluffed out' , but it might be the video combined with my 'fat' screen. There were some pretty sorry looking hocks there but a few that I thought were nice looking ...... but as an ASL owner I am partial. The movement/gaits (not gate) were very familiar.


----------

