# which would you choose



## gryphon (Dec 18, 2011)

I am currently feeding my almost 4 mo old GSD Diamond naturals lr breed puppy. He eats it, but not very excited about it. He is free fed 2-3 cups a day. Breeder had him on Iams but reccommended Canidae ALS or any of the the TOTW brands. My budget is about 45$ or less per 30 lb bag. I have a tractor supply locally. My other options are

4Health 
Chicken Soup Lr Br puppy
Blue BUffalo Lrg Breed puppy
AvoDerm Lrg Breed
Natures Variety
Pinacle
California Natural

We are a family of 6 on a one military man budget.. I want the best in that price range that I won't feel the need to add extra vitamins oils, etc. I have researched calcium levels, proteins etc. I am just a little more concerned about diamond after reading all the posts here about past recalls. What would you choose?


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

Hey I'm getting a shepherd in about a week and I'm still deciding which kibble to choose too 
I suggest you read this and look at the Ca/Ph amount for a puppy 
Calcium & Phosphorous Requirements for Dogs


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

gryphon said:


> I am currently feeding my almost 4 mo old GSD Diamond naturals lr breed puppy. He eats it, but not very excited about it. He is free fed 2-3 cups a day. Breeder had him on Iams but reccommended Canidae ALS or any of the the TOTW brands. My budget is about 45$ or less per 30 lb bag. I have a tractor supply locally. My other options are
> 
> 4Health
> Chicken Soup Lr Br puppy
> ...


Of the foods you list, the one I would choose is California Natural--their fish and sweet potato diet, if possible.

Also, please consider not free feeding. One of best studies on feeding growing puppies showed that free fed puppies (although I think they were fed as much as they chose to eat) have a significantly higher chance of orthopedic problems.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Of those listed, I would choose Natures Variety (Prairie). 

If you happen to try this, be sure to sign up for their email updates. They send out (email) coupons constantly!! Matter of fact, I just got one today. (and I don't feed NV as it isn't available within 60 miles one way from me.)


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Of that list, I would also go with Nature's Variety. Instinct is the grain free line, and Prairie is the grain line. Both good foods, just pick and choose. 

I actually just got a coupon in my e-mail today for the prairie kibble. I get coupons all the time.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Konotashi said:


> Of that list, I would also go with Nature's Variety. Instinct is the grain free line, and Prairie is the grain line. Both good foods, just pick and choose.
> 
> I actually just got a coupon in my e-mail today for the prairie kibble. I get coupons all the time.


I said the Prairie formulas because most of the Instinct formulas are to high in calcium for a puppy. Isn't the instinct also quite a bit more expensive?


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## gryphon (Dec 18, 2011)

update from Vet APpt. 


Well I just got back from the vet. Gryphon had to get his rabies shot today. The vet is awesome and even rescued a GSD of her own that she is working with after his hips gave out at 1 yr old during police training. I printed out the ingredients and analysis of these foods and had her look at them.

diamond nat. lr brd. puppy
canidae ALS
Natures Variety Prairie Chicken n Brown Rice
TOTW Sierra Mountain

I asked her recommendation and what they sell at the vet. She said they sell Science Diet and some Purina brand but she doens't like either of them and never suggests them. 

Her top pick was the TOTW becuase it was grain free 25% protein and 1.5% calcium. She said if at all possible buy a grain free formula. I told her my concerns on diamond and she said it was related to corn based mold called afloxins.. so she def. was up on nutrition. Said a lot of her breeders used diamond though and love it. She also said one raw meal a day was great.. she said chicken with bones, eggs, venison were all excellent. 

What is the consensus on TOTW. 

and to the op yes the natures variety instict is much pricier than the grain included praire.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I raised several young dogs on ToTW and I like it a fair bit--my dogs always did well on it.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think I've tried every food Diamond makes-- TOTW, 4Health, Kirkland, Chicken Soup-- and never had good results with any of them. I think the batch consistency is poor. My dogs were having intermittent diarrhea. That said, I know others have had good results with it.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

The kibble I feed is not on your list but I feed Wellness Super5Mix for large breed puppies. 26% protein and 1.4 % calcium

Wellness Complete Health® Super5Mix® Large Breed - Puppy Health

Ingredients
Deboned Chicken, Whitefish, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Peas, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Salmon Meal (a source of DHA - Docosahexaenoic Acid), Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Ground Flaxseed, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA - Docosahexaenoic Acid), Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Salt, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Choline Chloride, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

gryphon said:


> Her top pick was the TOTW becuase it was grain free 25% protein and 1.5% calcium. She said if at all possible buy a grain free formula. .


Did you happen to ask her why? I've read numerous peer-reviewed university studies in professional journals comparing carbohydrate sources in dog food. NONE suggest that potatoes or sweet potatoes are any better than grains. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this "grain free is better" movement. If it's better I'm happy to feed it, but I can't find any evidence to support the idea that it's any better in dogs who are not allergic or intolerant. Meanwhile, top-quality grained foods cost about the same as medium- or low-quality grain free foods.


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## gryphon (Dec 18, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Did you happen to ask her why? I've read numerous peer-reviewed university studies in professional journals comparing carbohydrate sources in dog food. NONE suggest that potatoes or sweet potatoes are any better than grains. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this "grain free is better" movement. If it's better I'm happy to feed it, but I can't find any evidence to support the idea that it's any better in dogs who are not allergic or intolerant. Meanwhile, top-quality grained foods cost about the same as medium- or low-quality grain free foods.


 
She went thru all the lists of dog food and didn't like the rice, oats, or barley. She said for skin allergies, those were often culprits. Guess the pototoes were the lesser or two evils maybe.

And yes, she said free feeding wasn't the best but becuase he was eating the correct amount it was ok.. try to get back on a schedule though... I know that but I am an all day grazer myself and my dog likes to do the same. LOL I was also thinking this would also be better for bloat. Not sure


I have looked into the Wellness Super5 mix but I had read a lot of reviews that it was very rich and caused loose stools. I need to look at it again. I guess I would just like to find something reasonable that I can relax and know my dog will thrive on. 

The quest continues.. I'm heading to tractor supply tomorrow. They have TOTW , Merrick, Wellness I THINK..


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Emoore said:


> I can't find any evidence to support the idea that it's any better* in dogs who are not allergic or intolerant*.





gryphon said:


> She went thru all the lists of dog food and didn't like the rice, oats, or barley. *She said for skin allergies, those were often culprits*. Guess the pototoes were the lesser or two evils maybe.


OK, I know a LOT of dogs who have no allergies to grains. If they're not, is grain-free still needed? Is your dog having skin allergies on the Diamond Natural?


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

As someone who has to scoop up behind some dogs every day, I can say that the smell, consistently, and amount of poop are significantly better when my dogs are fed grain-free foods.

I am not totally against grains for dogs, though. What I don't like is that grains are being used as protein sources and primary calorie sources in many dog foods.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

BlackthornGSD said:


> As someone who has to scoop up behind some dogs every day, I can say that the smell, consistently, and amount of poop are significantly better when my dogs are fed grain-free foods.


Interesting. . . thanks for that. This subject of how grain-free has really taken off over the last 5-10 years is fascinating to me. It seems like 10 years ago grain-free with this small niche market and now everybody and their kid brother is feeding grain-free. 



BlackthornGSD said:


> I am not totally against grains for dogs, though. What I don't like is that grains are being used as protein sources and primary calorie sources in many dog foods.


I strongly agree with you here. 

I'm just wondering if, say a 30/20 grain-free food that uses potatoes, sweet potatoes, and/or peas as a starch source is inherently better than a 30/20 food that uses rice as a protein source.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

The current issue of Whole Dog Journal discusses how they select the brands they recommend and has a great list of them.
I tried Wellness but went to Dr. Gary's Best Breed (Working) and (German). I pay to have it shipped. Nice firm stools on this feed.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Free feeding is not better for preventing bloat. And, IMO, could be worse as if the dog is fed MEALS, you KNOW when the dog ate last so it is easy to not exercise the dog shortly after it has eaten.

If the dog is free fed and you come home and take the dog out for exercise, you have NO WAY of knowing how long it has been since the dog ate last. For all you know, it could have been only 10 minutes ago that the dog ate a bunch of food. 

Dogs aren't horses or cattle, they don't need to Graze.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I wouldn't feed a puppy any of the "regular" TOTW formulas. I would only feed one of the puppy formulas as they have less calcium.


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