# multiple females



## heidismom (Jan 18, 2010)

i'm kinda new on here, more or less i look around but don't post too much. 

my question is, we have a 21 month old female that is spayed and we are looking at getting a puppy. the puppy we are looking at is 8 weeks old and another female. my fiance is worried that if we have 2 females we will have issues down the road. does anyone have any advice on this subject? i have noticed that several ppl have all female packs and seem to be doing great. any tips?

just a note on our girl, she is of great temperment, very low key and sweet. she does have her "puppy" moments of major playfulness and getting all wound up. for the most part she is very obedient and is gentle. we have 2 smaller kids, 12 and 9 and she is wonderful with them.

we just want to make sure we are fully aware of the ramifications of having 2 females. 

any help would be great!!


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## FuryanGoddess (Dec 26, 2009)

I had two females before w/ NO problem. One fight, the first day we brought # 2 home. After that, nothing. They laid on each other, ate side by side, but I'm now learning this isn't necessary the case. Both my females were very laid back and neither toy or food driven. Lady was the laziest dog ever. They were never thought to play or compete for anything. Both were rescues. 

I have a female now that was 11 1/2 wks old and losing her home. She was infested w/ round worm and had fleas. Once we got her and she adjusted, she turned into the queen bitch around here and when it came down to getting another dog, another female was just not an option. I don't think she'd have done well w/ another girl. 

We got a boy instead and now, 2 wks later, Zeva is 8 1/2 mos old and Murphy is 10 wks old, I couldn't be happier with how they're getting along. They're best friends and do NOT like to be away from each other. This is shocking because Zeva was turning really dog reactive. I don't know if it was fear, aggression or her not knowing how to play. We were pretty worried about the new pup and I truly don't think it would have gone as well w/ a girl. 

NOT saying that all the possible problems are over.. .Murphy is still small and she can push him around a bit. She doesn't seem to get it that he's gonna be as big, or bigger than her. 

From what I understand, a lot of the females tend to be a bit more alpha over the males, at least that seems to be the patten I've seen here... not sure if there is any truth to the matter. 

I've also read that bitches can, will and have fought to the death. 

When I got my old girls, I didn't know any of this and got lucky. I don't think that's a risk I'm ever going to take again, willingly, if I have too. I LOVE my female GSD's. Zeva was everything I was looking for and I couldn't ask for a better dog... now I"m excited to see how Murphy will develop and mature. If he'll be bigger and get that nice big head. If he'll let her boss him around and take it. It's fun... She's fixed, and he'll be when he's old enough so that is one less thing I have to worry about. 

Well, that's my two cents.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

My females both have good temperments however the younger one does not get along with the older one. For the most part she does get along with other dogs not all but most and someday I hope they will both get along but for now they don't


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

The truth is with same sex aggression, there is no way to tell if you will have problems with two or more same sex dogs until all dogs involved are socially mature (usually begins when all dogs are between 2 - 4 years old). You do have an added risk factor in your situation that the dogs will be relatively close in age. I would not suggest taking another female unless you are able and willing to keep the dogs separated if they mature and don't get along.

Same sex aggression is an issue with this breed, regardless of lines. While some individuals can and will live happily with multiple same sex dogs, some will mature to not even tolerate one other same sex dog in the household. Neutering males can sometimes help them to get along better but spaying females doesn't help (and in some cases may make the problem worse). 

Here is a general (non-GSD specific) article about living with same sex dogs:
Same Sex Dogs in the Home - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!


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## ZAYDA (Apr 22, 2010)

I have 2 females never had 1 problem but I believe it is all up to the owner to show the pecking order. My older girl gets pet first when I would come home and I also put down her food fist even though it is just seconds before I put the younger ones food down. I also give the older one treats first and so on. I also feel both your dogs HAVE to know you are boss. When they eat I also put my hand in there food or I make them stop and pick up their bowls and then put them back down showing that I dictate what I expect from them. 
No reason 2 females can't get along and be best of buddies you just need to be a dog owner that takes the time to set boundaries and rules.


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## alaman (May 3, 2006)

I've got four working females and no problems. They simply know who the alpha is and who sets the rules.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

ZAYDA said:


> I have 2 females never had 1 problem but I believe it is all up to the owner to show the pecking order. My older girl gets pet first when I would come home and I also put down her food fist even though it is just seconds before I put the younger ones food down. I also give the older one treats first and so on. I also feel both your dogs HAVE to know you are boss. When they eat I also put my hand in there food or I make them stop and pick up their bowls and then put them back down showing that I dictate what I expect from them.
> No reason 2 females can't get along and be best of buddies you just need to be a dog owner that takes the time to set boundaries and rules.


This just sounds like hoo ha to me. The dogs don't care and this doesn't show them anything.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

AgileGSD said:


> The truth is with same sex aggression, there is no way to tell if you will have problems with two or more same sex dogs until all dogs involved are socially mature (usually begins when all dogs are between 2 - 4 years old). You do have an added risk factor in your situation that the dogs will be relatively close in age. I would not suggest taking another female unless you are able and willing to keep the dogs separated if they mature and don't get along.
> 
> Same sex aggression is an issue with this breed, regardless of lines. While some individuals can and will live happily with multiple same sex dogs, some will mature to not even tolerate one other same sex dog in the household. Neutering males can sometimes help them to get along better but spaying females doesn't help (and in some cases may make the problem worse).
> 
> ...


 
I would generally agree with this. You really don't know until you have the dogs together. Our girl, while generally tolerant of other dogs out in public, I would be careful of letting around other females in a non-structured off leash situation. She's Queen Bitch over all our males.

And something I want to point out in particular that was mentioned was "social maturity". GSDs more than any other breed I've owned thus far shows a real maturity and change in personality. That kind of surprised me. I was used to dogs (even intact dogs) that would stay more puppy like in their behavior, so when I started to see shifts in my GSDs it was a little surprising. Dogs that had always tolerated everything from other dogs, no longer would. And not only would they no longer tolerate it, they would try to turn the tables and reassert themselves over the other dog even if that meant a fight. And like it was said somewhere between 2-4 yrs when they would test things.

Ia greee having strong pack leadership in general helps prevent problems, but some dogs/bitches just don't get along. You have to willing and prepared to separate if it becomes a problem.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would go with opposite sex over two females
I have two females(spayed) and an intact easygoing male, and keep them all in line, one is more submissive, but if she ever decides to challenge the other, it won't be pretty...and they don't forgive/forget.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

JKlatsky said:


> Ia greee having strong pack leadership in general helps prevent problems, but some dogs/bitches just don't get along. You have to willing and prepared to separate if it becomes a problem.


ITA. IME same sex aggression has little to do with if the human is "alpha" enough or not. My same sex aggressive dog is extremely devoted to me, very well trained, very well socialized and has never displayed any "dominant" behaviors towards me. She still will start fights with any other bitch she lives with once they reach about 2 years old and she doesn't care if they submit to her or not. I worked at a doggy daycare for years and took this same dog to work with me on a very regular basis. Never had any issues with her and the dogs there of either sex, she just ignored them for the most part.

IMO it there is a genetic component to this behavior, just like there are genetic components to nerves, pack drive, prey drive and guarding instinct. And IME it seems to be pretty widespread in the breed, regardless of lines. I think the issue has more to do with lack of tolerance for sharing resources (IOWs competitiveness) with multiple same sex dogs than it has to do with dominance. Many owners who have same sex aggression with their dogs report that the aggressor doesn't seem to heed normal "I give up" signals from the other dog. If it was a dominance issue, the other dog submitting should end the fighting. Same sex aggressive dogs can live with an unlimited number of opposite sex dogs without issue, so it isn't that these dogs can't properly communicate with other dogs either. It appears that same sex aggression has one purpose - eliminate the competition. 

I think that probably a lot of GSDs have the tendency towards same sex aggression but the threshold for triggering it differs in individuals. Some dogs can live fine with multiple other same sex dogs. Some dogs seem to do well with X number but add one dog over that unknown limit and you'll have issues. Some dogs are fine in same sex households for years, only to end up having issues anyway. And for others, it could be triggered by certain temperament traits in dogs they live with (overly pushy being just as likely as overly squishy). And with some dogs, it seems that they have no ability to tolerate living with mature same sex dogs. Because of this though, I think many people are lured into a false sense of security by hearing of people who keep lots of same sex GSDs together without a problem (usually stating all it takes is being the "alpha"). I certainly wish people continued success but the truth is you just never know. Being prepared for the worst case scenario when opting to add another same sex dog is always best.


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## chevysmom (Feb 15, 2008)

I think it has to do more with the temperment of the dogs rather than the sex. I grew up with 2 female dogs (lab/rot mix and shepherd/chow mix) who never once got into a scuffle.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Everyone thinks the owner isn't a strong enough "pack leader" if they have two dogs that are fighting.

Until it happens to THEM.

I have one female that had the snot socialized out of her, good breeding, very submissive to people, and you can do anything and everything to this dog. Take a raw bone out of her mouth if you want. She won't care, she knows who the boss is. She won't attack my other female if someone is around, but walk out of the room and she flat out tries to kill her. People that have had two bitches fight will understand the difference between a real dog fight and a usual "dog fight" where other than some slobber everyone is ok. My female that was being attacked is the most submissive dog you could meet. Adopted, badly abused and neglected, scared of her own shadow half the time. Happy as a clam if the other one isn't with her. She does not instigate arguments and avoids confrontation at all times with other dogs. I believe the other one senses the weakness, perhaps, or perhaps it's just because she's a female. I've done all the training in the world, even resorted to using one of leerburgs muzzles on her so they could safely interact. All is fine, until the muzzle comes off.

The bottom line? Most will be ok. But hope to god you don't end up with two females that fight, or in my case, one female that attempts to kill the other when given the opportunity. You will spend the rest of their lives keeping them seperated. And if you screw up, there will be no grace period. Mine had been apart for approx 6 months last year, and after a horrific personal morning, I was not thinking and let the aggressor out into the backyard with the other female. Within probably 20 - 30 seconds she was on her, and it was the worst fight I have ever seen in my life. It's hard to forgive oneself for letting their pup be attacked by another dog.

My little girl, by the way, who got attacked, is excellent with other female dogs. It's only the one who throws a kink into things. She gets along with males just fine.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

When I got Kiya at 14 wks, we had Chazzy a 8 year old gsd who didn't have a mean bone in her body, unless she was chewing a bone. That was the only time she snapped at Kiya. Now Kiya is 5-1/2 I got Lakota (female) at 8 weeks. I thought I would have a hard time with Kiya because she's on seizure meds, lets just say she's a little spaced out at times. Well it turned out Kiya loves the baby and my male dog Apache who's 7-1/2 barely tolerates the baby. He was almost 2 when I got Kiya, the only thing he cared about that day I brought her home, was the toy in her crate, him and Kiya were buddies in no time.


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

This is an old question but a good one.
Our last male was in 1974.
Since then we have always had at least two intact females. We now have Grandma B'EL, Daughter ARA and Granddaughter BB. We have never had a problem. Our present situation might be a bit unique because of the generational thing. In the past we simply absorbed the new girl into the house hold as if she always belonged there.
I might be important to consider the fact that the new one was also the youngest.

The bottom line is that a lot depends upon the temperament of the individuals.


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

My friend had two females. The older one was a Malinois and the younger was a GSD. They got along great until the GSD matured, decided she wanted to be alpha, but the older dog wouldn't stand for it. The GSD almost killed the older girl and after that, they had to keep the dogs separated for the rest of their lives (10 years!!) 

Then again, I've heard of females getting along too. I wouldn't take the chance myself after seeing what my friend went through.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

having multiple`s in the past, including 2 females, depends on there temperament, the 2 females i have now, both have physiological problems, both are rescues, I took them knowing they had problems, and I knew they would have a safe forever home with me, despite all the training and on going training, this past feb while playing in the yard and never unsupervised, Lilah the youngest decided to challenge Heidi the oldest female, within seconds Hedi had Lilah on her back and by the throat, it took a bit for me to break it up, they went to the ER vets and I went to the ER, point to all this is dont assume anything and have a good safe plan to break them up if it happens,


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

EJQ said:


> This is an old question but a good one.
> Our last male was in 1974.
> Since then we have always had at least two intact females. We now have Grandma B'EL, Daughter ARA and Granddaughter BB. We have never had a problem. Our present situation might be a bit unique because of the generational thing.




 This actually does seem to make a big difference. I have known very same sex aggressive females that were fine with their daughters and granddaughters but no other girls living with them, as long as the daughters remained in the house. If they got a daughter back though, it was just like any other bitch and would not be tolerated.


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

I have always had at least two dogs, always two females. My first GSD was great w/ our 5 pound toy poodle-they lived in harmony for nearly 13 years. We now have two GSD females, one 13 months, one 9 months. It was love at first sight. We have a definite pecking order. I always lead my pack-and they know it!


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I do not agree with those who say being Alpha over your dogs is the difference, that is pure B.S. The second I walk out into my yard not only do all my dogs, but all my horses know who is the Alpha entity on the premises, but the reality is some bitches, just like some mares are genetically Alpha oriented, they are inherently that way, my 2 female girls were raised together, a 6 month difference, NEVER a squabble in my presence, as I simply would not allow it, but one horrible night while I was watching TV and the dogs were playing out back it got eerily quiet, and I discovered my older bitch had attacked and killed my younger, just like that. I will NEVER again have 2 female dogs together, it's just not worth it to me.


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## heidismom (Jan 18, 2010)

thank you all for all the posts, however we solved the problem and adopted a male 9 mos. old malinois, we think, from a local shelter.

follow the link for more information:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/137736-new-puppy.html


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