# Need advice asap whether to put my GSD down?



## Dom LRS (Apr 9, 2011)

Hi i registered as i couldnt find a clear answer all over the web till 3am, briefly i emigrated to Canada with my GSD Harley 1, from the UK an ex military dog short hair, was a great dog for 12 years and passed of a heart attack, wasnt expected but given age understood.

Replaced him 4 months later with a pedigree puppy Harley 2 a long haired, great dog had him since 2004/5 then in November 2009 i found him in compound unable to stand took to vets was a spinal cord stroke, spent $1700 with them plus rented a dog chair - got him walking unaided about a month later - lot of work making area in house and washing his rear and dealing with a chaffed fur on one leg until i found Detra a orange vinyl for tiling as i was in midst of home renno work, anyhow got dog back in compound, for the whole spring 2010 right thru till November where i brought him inside at night as its too cold, over the last 3 months his fur started coming out in clumps and is extremely greasy and hes completely lost his fine coat in his groin and armpits & neck, i washed him with seraborra shampoo as he had been prescribed 2 years prior for flaky skin, i took him to the vets at last resort and they charged me $740 for skin & blood tests, a full shave antibiotics i squirted into his mouth and arthritis anti inflammatory as they said his rear legs were arthritic they also detected a mild heart mumour but not at the dangerous end, and also a tube of antibacterial for an ear infection, and a ridiculously expensive 5lb bag of vet food for $70 bucks which didn't do squat.

I went back to collect the dog - looked like **** apparently he is 65lbs whereas the last time they had him was 95lbs they shaved him smooth i had my reservations but i followed there instructions to bath him nightly for 6 nights in the tub with this serrobatic shampoo and then there after 3 day intervals.

Due to work commitments and a lot of financial stress in this economy and running my own business with payroll and bills to meet i let the regime slip and i bathed him last night, he was filthy and the skin is back to exactly the same stinking greasy mess as before.

Last night i saw other remedies such as 1 part vinegar wash and all kinds of claims of propriety anti serroboric natural dog foods - my border collie and my border collie/GSD cross are thriving on Purina and dog meat same as i give harley they also eat scraps and are happy and healthy granted a little fat but that was intentional to increase as they are outside dogs and sleep in a barn full of straw.

I need to know if i am doing the right thing here, he is not the same dog that would bound about the forest chasing the collie, granted he is mobile, eats a bowl a day and has a wag, he recognizes me and rubs his head on my leg to scratch he has the sparkle in his eye but he looks terrible, however am i just humanizing my emotions onto him and maybe he has had enough - I have to ask myself am i just prolonging a situation for my selfish needs of not wanting to admit failure & trying to cling to what was a wonderful puppy and a lot of fun dog to keep something in the furnace room that when i get home at 9pm at night i have to put in the family bathtub and wash and then get woken up at 3am to let out to pizzle and he is also wetting the blanket and padded floormat that i have now invested over $2200 in vets bills and if continued much more that i really cannot afford. 

My wife feels i should just give up after last nights frustration im thinking that too but its hard for me yea im a grown man of 43 that has lost many dogs and cats over the years and also both parents and brother in 18 months and maybe im just clinging onto something that if it was a friend id tell them to give up, im not sure if there is a sure fire way of resolving this serrobea skin issue once and for all and weight loss, even if i fix that by some miracle im still left with a incontinent GSD that when i let it out drags its legs until it gains a foothold and then stands up and is able to walk, i guess im reaching out to similar people that love the breed and am asking is there anything i can do or should i just let him go, grieve and then go back to the breeder and get another one? - i will never not have a GSD those and border collies are about the only dogs i call a dog!, the wife has bought a new border collie puppy which is for her and we collect in a week - should i just accept this let him go and get another GSD puppy so that they can both grow together?

Its a real toughie for me hence why i joined this board as honestly its about the worse decision im having trouble making - heck i find it much easier to terminate an employee than this emotional mess i find myself wrestling with!

Please advise 

Dom


----------



## trapper66 (Nov 16, 2010)

It is tough but you need to do what is best for the dog. If it is in pain and not ever going to be that dog, it owe it to him. Not easy good luck!


----------



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I had all kinds of problems with Doerak when I got him. He didn't have all the ailments you dog seems to have, though. 

His teeth were covered in tartar. His coat was brittle and his skin was all white flakes. He had troubles with diarrhea also. After spending $600 the first week at the vets (He was about 3 when I got him), I decided to feed him raw food and forget about everthing the vet said. He became muscular and healthy. His teeth were white in 3 days, his coat was beautiful and I loved running my fingers through it, and his poops were the solid raw feed poops. Its not going to help his spinal cord, but it will make the rest of him healthy. 

I just read a story today about a Malinois puppy who was born with defective/underdeveloped kidneys and had started going downhill. The owner started feeding a species appropriate raw diet and the dog started thriving, had more energy and could outplay his new brother, a totally healthy and larger Malinois.


----------



## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I am so sorry for what you are going through. Honestly, I have no advice. It's such a difficult decision --all I can offer is sympathy.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

it sounds like you go above and beyond for your dogs and I'm so sorry your going thru this, as well as Harley

It's a decision only you can make, I have had to do it 4 times now and it never ever is an easy decision to make. Yes we are selfish, and it's so hard to let go but all my decisions have been based on the quality of life or if they were in pain. None were in pain, but their quality of life was going down the tubes fast for whatever reason at the time, I just looked at them and somehow "knew" it was time to do what I never ever wanted to do 

I had to learn to be unselfish.


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It sounds like you can't afford to give your dog the vet care and diet he needs, and he not only looks awful, but has lost a ton of weight, is incontinent, and is losing the use of his back end. He's old and you can't make him better at this point, so the best option might be putting him down.

I can not emphasis enough how unwise it is to have two puppies at the same time. Get the border collie, bond and train him, wait until he's at least a year old and nicely settled, before getting the second.


----------



## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

I'm so sorry you have to make this decision - it's never an easy one. I agree with what Jakoda said - it sounds like you go above and beyond for your dogs...for Harley. 

What kind of vinegar are you using?

I don't know anything about the skin condition - my only thought was organic, unfiltered apple cider vinegar...I know from my acupuncturist that it can be beneficial for skin conditions and other things (consumed or used on the skin - mixed with water). 

Apple Cider Vinegar Health Benefits

Apple Cider Vinegar - What You Need to Know About Apple Cider Vinegar

Has Harley tried physical therapy for his stroke? I doubt he would ever fully regain everything that he had but it might help. 

Those are the only thoughts I had. 

This has got to be one of the toughest decisions we as pet owners ever have to make and I can tell you, with one aging dog right now it hurts me to think about it...but I know that it may have to be done one day. 

Good luck, to both you and Harley, with whatever decision you make. Best wishes.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I wish I had some helpful advice to offer. My heart aches for you in having to make this difficult decision. I wish you the best. I also agree with Elaine. Wait to get that second puppy. Not only will it give you time to bond with the first puppy, it will give you time to grieve.


----------



## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I am so sorry you have to go through this, it is never easy. I had to put down a 15 month old pup due to kidney failure. It was the hardest thing I ever did but I knew it was time for him. You really have to search your heart and ask what is the right thing for him.

I also agree I would wait to get the second puppy.


----------



## infinite loop (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm so very sorry for what you are going through. I don't think anyone can tell you what to do, you know when it's time. 

All I can say is you shouldn't feel guilty and/or a failure for your actions if you do happen to put him down. Be proud of what you've done to address the situation thus far.

Best of luck, I really hope things turn out for the better for both you and Harley.


----------



## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> it sounds like you go above and beyond for your dogs and I'm so sorry your going thru this, as well as Harley
> 
> It's a decision only you can make, I have had to do it 4 times now and it never ever is an easy decision to make. Yes we are selfish, and it's so hard to let go but all my decisions have been based on the quality of life or if they were in pain. None were in pain, but their quality of life was going down the tubes fast for whatever reason at the time, I just looked at them and somehow "knew" it was time to do what I never ever wanted to do
> 
> I had to learn to be unselfish.


Ditto, and you have my sympathies.


----------



## zeus von entringer staal (Jan 3, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your dog, it is a tough situation. If he is in pain that can not be fixed, hopefully you will do the right thing for him


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I think if you are willing to try one more thing - I would try the all raw diet. Often serious skin issues like that are food allergies, and switching to BARF (Biologically Appropriate Raw Diet) can do miracles. 

More info here:
B.A.R.F./Raw Feeding - German Shepherd Dog Forums

read the stickies, check out the Raw Dog Ranch

Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch

And this thread shows examples of DRAMATIC improvement in dogs after switching to Raw. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/b-r-f-raw-feeding/111711-changes-after-being-switched-raw.html


----------



## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I will vouch for raw. I put my kidney pup on it and noticed a huge difference in a week. I knew I could not keep him forever but it bought him some quality time.


----------



## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

lots of really good opinions here. For me, it always boiled down to quality of life, and if I wouldn't want to live it, I sure wouldn't want to drag my pet through it. They live such a short time here, (around 15 years if we are lucky) it's just not fair! I make it my mission to make sure they aren't suffering or living an extreamly difficult life while they are here. It's something that has come easier for me since my experience of caring for my own mother who passed away from cancer, and seeing her suffer, and not being able to do enough to help. 

You've done good by your dog, more than many would have. 

When you make your decision, just look ahead, and don't second think it afterwards, it will be the RIGHT decision! We all wish it is something else, but in the end "it is what it is!" It's never easy putting a pet to rest, and I can sure empathize.

God speed.


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I agree with Davey Benson. It's the most heart wrenching decision and many of us have gone through the same torture. Harley trusts you with his life and needs you to do what's best for him. I can't think of anything more important than freeing him from pain and misery. You'll do the right thing


----------



## Dom LRS (Apr 9, 2011)

Big thanks to everyone! i knew that i did the right thing by asking here from my peers - thank you for the understanding & humanity.

Ok so here is the new's the person that recommended Apple Cider Vinegar - THANK YOU!

I set myself the mental prep to give him one more week so i found in the cupboard that we had it - took a pail and a sponge and washed him down with it in his groin and all the sensitive areas - it cleaned off the dead skin, next morning i checked him - NO GREASE so each night i have done the same, there is no more hot spots he's happier and wagging his tail, today im starting him on the other members suggestion - Raw meat diet, then its bath-time with Dawn and then a rinse in Apple Cider vinegar, granted he smells like an old hooker but he's alive lol

Im just going to see how this plays out - im not deluding myself as literally ive seen results in 3 days whereas the vets solution did nothing but hammer my finances and stress the dog with a 60 mile round trip, he is pooping normally is mobile, wags and socializes with the pack and is more upbeat that has been for a while, if he relapses then ill bite the bullet and just put him down - quality of life is the rational not my needs, ive already spoke with another breeder - hugely expensive $2500 for another puppy (Coated black male) but will await & see developments i hope to be able to post some photos here during the process, I read every post and considered fairly and objectively and i appreciate the kindness and understanding of the members.

I will keep you posted!

Cheers

Dom


----------



## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

I am glad he's responding to the vinegar. The people here are so helpful. 
Please do keep us updated on him.


----------



## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Hello and Welcome, sorry for the circumstances which brought you to this forum.

Glad that some of the suggestions have brought on an improvement with your boy and I hope that he continues to improve.


----------



## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm glad to hear that the quality of his life has remarkably improved. Sometimes its worth the long shot to try to improve the quality of life for your pets.


----------



## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I would still look into a raw diet...if you visit the Raw/BARF section and see the before and after pictures, I think you'd be shocked. It's not a cure-all, but it does work wonders. What are you currently feeding out of curiosity? And congrats on the apple/vinegar treatment!


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

If you do use a raw diet please be sure to read up on it to make sure you are giving the correct ratios. Raw meat alone is not a balanced diet, they need amounts of bone (or some people grind it all up together) and if you don't give bone you'll need to give calcium/supplements instead (certain ratio calcium to balance phosphorus in the meat.)
If you are not able to provide a balanced raw diet, some other choices are a pre-made raw diet (from the pet store), a freeze-dried or dehydrated diet or you may also consider trying a high quality limited ingredient kibble (in case there may be food allergies) which you can find at many pet stores.


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Glad to hear he's getting some relief. If you do decide it's time, at least you know you've been able to provide more comfort in his last days.


----------



## Dom LRS (Apr 9, 2011)

Dear all well i tried everything, saw some improvement but over the last week he declined he was having difficulty in standing his rear legs atrophied i massaged them and got him walking yesterday and this am he was in a bad when i left for work tonight no better he lost a lot of fur on his legs and chest and neck & i had the vet come out & euthanize him, Harley passed at 1am EST i held him until the sedative kicked in and went for a smoke really odd that at the exact moment he passed the dogs radio cut off in the middle of a rolling stones song and then came back on and both the other dogs which id put in the workshop stopped barking, the wife who was mostly for the evening prior to the vets visit was trying to make me realize it was for the best was in a terrible state but i feel a sense of relief, i told my pup ill see him again and i laid him out for the night in the barn and let the other dogs see him and actually i feel ok.

I did ALL i could i have no regrets i know the dog went through a lot, my feeling is that i did for him but he did more he was the one that learned to walk again and sat there in a Canadian blizzard & the rain whilst i worked in the workshop even though the other dogs wussied out to stay dry, so i can say right to the end he tried to get up to see me when the vet was doing her work, he passed in his sleeping area peacefully and now i know the suffering is at an end.

Now ive got to put the border collie and shepherd collie cross on a massive diet as they have all enjoyed this raw meat diet along with a constant full bowls of kibble as i open fed them all to help Harley gain weight so now i have two obese dogs that are a sight lol

I will be looking for another GSD ive looked into these Shiloh shepherds but all i see is a heck of a lot of mudslinging between breeders that have splintered off into there own clique member organisations - doesnt look good for a prospective purchasers! but ill make that decision down the line whether the next is a GSD or a Shiloh, main thing is Harley is at deserved rest, i have to buy a big deck tote and dig another grave alongside Harley 1 GSD & Yanu (Malamute) i brought from England 10 years ago - i would like to extend my gratitude to all the kind people here - you dont know this limey but you stepped up and offered some decency and even though i didnt get a cure it gave me that extra month of hope some improvement at first but the main thing was it gave me the time i needed to let my buddy go with dignity i miss him already and we need to hear that GSD bark here soon! Cheers Dom





Stosh said:


> Glad to hear he's getting some relief. If you do decide it's time, at least you know you've been able to provide more comfort in his last days.


----------



## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

RIP Harley. :halogsd:


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

so sorry to hear about your boy....


----------



## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

I am so very sorry :hugs:


----------



## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Aww, that made me tear up. You did all you could and I commend you for giving peace to Harley.
My heart goes out to you.


----------



## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

It's never an easy decision.... my empathy..


----------



## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I know this was so hard for you, but it was the best gift you could give Harley. Thank you for being there for him.
Hugs,
Jan


----------



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Sounds as if the final time you had with him feeling better and doing a bit better was a good time for both of you. It also gave you time to say goodbye in your own way and then be able to give Harley the final sendoff he deserved. Seems when he asked to go, you let him.
You will get your new puppy when the time is right. I always believe things fall into place when they are meant to happen.


----------



## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear about Harley, but thank you for letting us know about this sad turn of events. It sounds like you did the right thing for him since he was suffering. It's so difficult to do this, but there comes a point when it is better for the dog to find some relief than continue on in pain.

I hope you find some comfort in knowing that you gave Harley a good life and you tried everything you could to save him. Rest in peace, sweet Harley. :angel:


----------



## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

you did the right thing **hugs**


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is never easy to let them go, but it was the best thing. I am sorry you had to go through this, it is so hard.


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

You did the right thing...he was suffering...and hanging on to him was only prolonging that. But that never makes it any easier. My heart, tears and prayers are with you! Harley is now at peace and you will some day meet again! Run free...Harley!


----------



## Dom LRS (Apr 9, 2011)

Hi all,

Well we interred Harley 2 into our little pet cemetery (can advise that patio deck boxes at $50 make a suitable casket and a local understanding backhoe guy - he does pet burials a lot 

Good news i now have Rommel, this was his listing:

6 MONTH OLD BLACK LONG COAT GERMAN SHEPHERD MALE. CKC REGISTRED, UP TO DATE ON ALL SHOTS AND HEALTH GUARANTEE. THIS PUP HAS AN EXCELLENT DISPOSITION. HE IS FROM CZECH LINEAGE AND IS A GRANDSON OF THE LEGENDARY "NORBO BEN JU". 

He is FANTASTIC pleasant well tempered gets on with all our dogs & cats is a total 1-1 bond is hilarious at work as he constantly steals rags from our mechanics and has a nice stash of stuff he's stolen from the workshops he gets along brilliantly with Biscuit the border collie pup at 16 weeks the play is gentle he allows the puppy to play bite and there is no issues.

My wife found me the dog granted not cheap but he is all black and has an incredible pedigree and A1 hip scores all the way back, he is so much like a bear we have to put a scarf on him as we live next to a hunt camp but he will not be loose unsupervised i cant thank Larry & Linda at Welcome to Black Gold Shepherds! enough - they have raised a great dog and this was the owners personal dog and am delighted to be able to own him

Cheers

Dom


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Congrats on your new addition, what a hairy bear he is !! soooooo CUTE!


----------



## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Sorry about your loss of Harley 2, the hurt from losing a pet never stops but it lessens with time. Congrats on Rommel he is a fine looking boy, and he does resemble a bear so yes be very careful with him.


----------

