# Finish Problems



## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

I have trained my GSD to do a flip finish. But most of the time she ends up a little crooked. So I tell her "nope" and withhold the reward. Then we do it again from the front beginning until she gets it right. I am not rewarding her correcting herself. Why is she not doing it right consistently the first try????


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Have you thought about whether she fully understands what is expected from her? If she does then maybe you need to add more of a correction other than "nope".

You should be rewarding her for correcting herself! She's trying to do what you want and you are ignoring it. My guess is she is conflicted on what you want.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

^agreed

you didn't specify your reward. if it is food, and that's most powerful, then withold the food for correct responses on the first time... if she corrects herself or if you have to assist... still give verbal and physical praise. the positive feedback is what's going to build her confidence in the behavior and motivate her to repeat it.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

For a clean consistent flip finish you have to be very careful to give as consistent a picture for a frame of reference for the dog as possible. Many dogs will take the frame of reference for where they need to be based on our upper body. So if we are looking off to the left and have our upper body oriented toward the left to see if the dog is finishing in correct position the dog may orient incorrectly as a result of us being turned.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

Yes the reward is always food for her. She is super food motivated. I have found that if I give a command and she gets to be wrong on the first time and then quickly corrects herself and gets the reward, she will do that whole sequence with the correction instead of doing it right the first time. That is why I insist on the full correct exercise before rewarding.

You could be right about my body position. I will check on that.

Correcting is also an option, I have done. However, it sometimes seems to make her over anxious and then she ends up a little crooked behind me. 

The only sure way to get the good position, is to lure her head. But I am still not having success in fading the lure.


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## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

Do you have a spotter when you train the finish? 

My issue was exactly as baliff described, I was the one throwing his positioning off. Once I started training with a spotter, the problem faded. 

Also I'd still reward the correcting. If he self corrects he'll get a verbal praise and a quick pet but I withhold the big reward. So the end picture is still clear in his head and I'm not sending mixed messages on what I'm asking for.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Some things I would do..

Teach the position from many different angles.. using your food in the beginning. So, calling her/him into basic from different angles.. But make it short distances so the dog can be successful.. I'll sit my dogs, then I pivot (take a step 45/90 degrees) to the right and call my dog into position.. or sit the dog and take a step forward and call the dog into basic position.. 

I would also work against a barrier is the dog is in front, so he/she cannot be incorrect.. Then slowly move away from the barrier..

And lastly, like was stated, make sure you are showing her/him the correct body posture/position..

I somewhat agree with you on not rewarding for incorrect positions, even if the dog corrects it's self. I sometimes wonder if in doing so, they think that that's part of the command?? But then that's where you need to know your dog and what works best!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think the dog correcting herself is a sign that she knows she is supposed to be in position. At this point, I would correct her for not doing it right the first time. So I would reward her for correcting herself and I would do it quickly. Position. Boom Ball. The next time I would correct her. She knows she's supposed to be there. Issue one correction that counts. We used an e-collar for Seger for the correction.

Dogs follow body language. I initially lured with the ball and tapped on the e-collar as I did it to bring him around into position. When you give the finish command, make sure you are making eye contact and move your eyes in the direction you want her to even if you have to turn your head initially.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

With mine, and probably along the lines of what G-Burg mentioned, he needed to come in at different angles other then from directly in front. He's pretty good size and doesn't really squat and swing his rear in so that he's finishing in a tight little circle. There has to be a certain amount of going far enough behind me to allow coming forward to straighten. 

From direct in front,I stepped back with my left leg trying to always keep my upper body straight and had him follow my leg forward into position. If you've ever seen it, its basically Ivan's Find the leg exercise.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Steve Strom said:


> From direct in front,I stepped back with my left leg trying to always keep my upper body straight and had him follow my leg forward into position. If you've ever seen it, its basically Ivan's Find the leg exercise.


This is how I started while luring with a ball.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> This is how I started while luring with a ball.


And actually looking back, in that luring stage I had to turn slightly to the left but the key was the stepping back to show him how far back he had to go to be able to straighten himself.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

Thank you all! @Jax I believe she does know exactly what to do. One time I gave her a well timed hard correction with a prong collar and she flipped in the air! It was impressive. But then she'll do it stupidly. As I said, not consistently.

I used the perch in the beginning to teach her to move her hind legs that way.

I have some great suggestions to work on! Let's see what works?!


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