# What GSD would be Best for Me?



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I was so sure that a WGWL GSD would be the best fit for me, but apparently I was following common misconceptions. So here's a post on what I'll be looking for in a dog. (I'll go to breeders and meet dogs firsthand, but here's just a quick layout so I can get a better idea). I'm going to say right now, I don't want a showline. (Am or German). 

I want to get into SchH, more for fun than for competition. I want a dog with good drive, but not over-the-top. First time GSD, so I don't want to overwhelm myself with 'too much dog.' I want that eagerness to please. If there's one line that's particularly easier to train with toys than treats, that'd be nice. (That's how I train Ozzy, I found that I like toy training better than treat training...). 

From my last post, it seems like the Czech lines might be a better fit, disregarding the misconceptions I was following?


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Sorry that you are limiting yourself. My ASL has plenty of drive and smarts and is also manageable.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

What you are looking for is a workingline dog and czech dogs are workingline also. I don't think it matters which type of WL you get so long as you are totally up front with the breeder about what you want in a dog, what you want to do with the dog, and be extremely honest about how much time you have to devote to exercise and training.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> Sorry that you are limiting yourself. My ASL has plenty of drive and smarts and is also manageable.


I don't feel that was a very fair/nice thing to say. Everyone has their preferences...


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

I get a kick out of the smugness that a person with an ASL has while accusing someone of limiting themself. Funny.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

West German Working line will be fine. Not every pup in every litter is going to have crazy drive just because the pups are West German. Take prey drive, every litter will mostly likely have a few that are a bit over the top, some right in the middle, and maybe a few that will make you want to go: "Hey, are you sure you belong here?". It's not that uniformed.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> Sorry that you are limiting yourself. My ASL has plenty of drive and smarts and is also manageable.


Funny how differently people take things. I took Paddy's post as in "sorry you are limiting yourself to a specific line as ASL may also be a possibility you would like." Not as smug or nasty.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

Fair enough. There was a study a few years back that showed how terrible people are at guaging intent on the internet.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> Sorry that you are limiting yourself. My ASL has plenty of drive and smarts and is also manageable.


Everyone has their preference. The OP prefers to work her dog, so why would she want a dog bred for looks instead? She wants to know that the dog will be a sound working companion. 

Just my take on it.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> Funny how differently people take things. I took Paddy's post as in "sorry you are limiting yourself to a specific line as ASL may also be a possibility you would like." Not as smug or nasty.


Thanks Jax. I was just wondering why the OP was limiting herself to specific lines. Don't understand why others are ruled out as potential candidates. But hey, I don't mind being jumped on ... it's really none of my business even though the concern about possible misconceptions was stated openly. I guess we can't ask questions.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> Thanks Jax. I was just wondering why the OP was limiting herself to specific lines. Don't understand why others are ruled out as potential candidates. But hey, I don't mind being jumped on ... it's really none of my business even though the concern about possible misconceptions was stated openly. I guess we can't ask questions.


Not without full Kevlar gear!:laugh:


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> Thanks Jax. I was just wondering why the OP was limiting herself to specific lines. Don't understand why others are ruled out as potential candidates. But hey, I don't mind being jumped on ... it's really none of my business even though the concern about possible misconceptions was stated openly. *I guess we can't ask questions.*


Uhm, you never asked a question. You told the OP (imo, in a smug tone) that she was limiting herself by not considering a showline. They are not for everyone. Had you asked about why she wasn't considering one, perhaps you wouldn't have felt jumped on.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

As mentioned before, there is great variety within the working lines and within some litters. It is best to get to know some breeders and their dogs. Find out what their dog's characteristics are and what they are aiming for in their breedings.

I am not sure schutzhund is a lot of "fun". It is very hard work and many hours of training. It can bring you and a dog a lot of gratification and fulfillment. Doing it with a dog that is not really well suited for it is not a lot of fun to me.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> Sorry that you are limiting yourself. My ASL has plenty of drive and smarts and is also manageable.



The op specifically said they want to get into schh. American lines are not the best bet to accomplish this goal. You have noted in the past things along the lines of how annoying it is when people shove working lines down your throat. But people interested in working lines feel the same way when they day they want a working line for schh and an american line person says to check those out.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I think when someone has specific goals for the dog, as is the case here and clearly stated in the first post, that limiting selection to lines proven to be successful in that area is quite wise. If someone were interested in AKC conformation showing, looking at anything but ASL would not be conducive to those goals. If German style conformation showing, then German show lines should be the focus of the search. But when someone is looking to do SchH, looking at anything but working lines is probably not wise. Now for a companion, sure, any line can be a good choice. But as Samba said, trying to do something with a dog who is unsuited, whatever that something is, does take a whole lot of the fun out of it. Dogs with natural talent are not only much more enjoyable to work, and much more successful, but also much easier especially for a novice where the skills and knowledge are not there yet to provide "special ed" training.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

here's my thought Konostashi.... you said you want a dog with good prey drive. my concern about a good to high prey drive is that Ozzy might become the prey. 

maybe not of course, especially since Ozzy is in the pack, but it may be something to consider. Anyone else out there think Ozzy could have trouble with a higher prey drive GSD?


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

wait...you said "drive" not "prey drive" . still may want to consider the drive when it comes to Ozzy


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

chicagojosh said:


> here's my thought Konostashi.... you said you want a dog with good prey drive. my concern about a good to high prey drive is that Ozzy might become the prey.
> 
> maybe not of course, especially since Ozzy is in the pack, but it may be something to consider. Anyone else out there think Ozzy could have trouble with a higher prey drive GSD?


 
No, he shouldn't have any more trouble with a "high" prey dog than he would with a dog with less prey drive. My GSD's live with my Schipperke, and they haven't hurt him yet. My Puppy (just turned a year old) is even submissive to the Schip since the Schip is older and more dominant right now.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Most dogs are quite capable of telling another dog is a dog. And dogs aren't prey, regardless of size. Particularly ones that they live together with. 

Cats, rabbits, chickens, ferrets, other species that very often ARE prey can be another matter entirely, though even then if the dog has proper balance of temperament and is well socialized and managed around those creatures it shouldn't be an issue.

Now, GSDs do play rough, and a small dog engaging in prey with something 20 times it's size could potentially be injurred. But prey drive toward another dog that the pup lives with and is raised with should never be an issue.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I think the person who can best answer your question is you-plus you are lucky in that right now you can not get a german shepherd so you have time that you can go to clubs or shows and look at the different dogs and see what you like. If you want to do schutzhund you could put a BH on Ozzy-and personally I think that a club that would be open to that would be a great club to be in


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

Agreed. There is a club near me with dogs you would NOT expect to see running in the sch.h fields. Like a Bernese Mountain Dog. Bouvier des Flanders. St. Bernard mix.
Here:



While Mr. Murphy was 'entertainment' during an actual trial, he was not entered. HOWEVER. It shows that little dogs can do it all too


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i have a West german show line. he's from generations of
Schutzhund titled dogs. mine is a pet/companion cuddle bear.



PaddyD said:


> Sorry that you are limiting yourself. My ASL has plenty of drive and smarts and is also manageable.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

holland said:


> you could put a BH on Ozzy


What a fun idea!!!!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

1. >>>> there's a lot of American and German show lines
with Schutzhund titles.

2.>>>> i would figure out what training aides my dog likes best.
you might like toy training more but does the dog like it?



Konotashi said:


> 1. >>>> I'm going to say right now, I don't want a showline. (Am or German).
> 
> 2. >>>> I want that eagerness to please. If there's one line that's particularly easier to train with toys than treats, that'd be nice. (That's how I train Ozzy, I found that I like toy training better than treat training...).
> 
> QUOTE]


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> Uhm, you never asked a question. You told the OP (imo, in a smug tone) that she was limiting herself by not considering a showline. They are not for everyone. Had you asked about why she wasn't considering one, perhaps you wouldn't have felt jumped on.


 
It was not intended to be smug but I can see how it was taken that way.
The question was implied: why limit yourself? You are correct, I should have gone more into depth as to why I said that.
But I won't. :wild:


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

PaddyD said:


> The question was implied: why limit yourself?


Not to start an argument, but can't really take that question seriously from someone has no experience with Schutzhund. Perhaps your dog would do well in SchH, he certainly sounds like a versatile dog, and there is the occasional ASL dog out there that is titled, but the OP would have much better chances of finding a suitable dog for her goals among the working lines. 

Now, if she can find a breeder of American Show Line GSDs, who has successfully put SchH titles on her breeding dogs and regularly produces dogs that do well in all the areas that Konotashi is interested in participating, then you are right! She is limiting herself by not considering such a breeder - if there are any like that out there.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> Not to start an argument, but can't really take that question seriously from someone has no experience with Schutzhund. Perhaps your dog would do well in SchH, he certainly sounds like a versatile dog, and there is the occasional ASL dog out there that is titled, but the OP would have much better chances of finding a suitable dog for her goals among the working lines.
> 
> Now, if she can find a breeder of American Show Line GSDs, who has successfully put SchH titles on her breeding dogs and regularly produces dogs that do well in all the areas that Konotashi is interested in participating, then you are right! She is limiting herself by not considering such a breeder - if there are any like that out there.


Abby is a SHE. I will never again suggest anything to anyone unless I have experience in the area. What was I thinking?
I am not a musician, so I have no right to suggest someone listen to something I like. I am not a cook, so I have no right
to suggest that someone try something I like. etc and so on ........


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm not a musican either but I know what music I like


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

holland said:


> I'm not a musican either but I know what music I like


Now THERE's a tangent I can go off on. My father was a professional musician and so are my sons. That talent skipped my generation. Music is a personal choice and, like religion, you can't MAKE others agree that your choice is a good one.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

It was unity Sunday in church today and the priest (I'm not Catholic) said that the bell choir was different sounds coming together (at least I think that was what he said) The bell choir is beautiful


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I think it would be AWESOME to see Ozzy flying across the field and attaching himself to a sleeve!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

PaddyD said:


> Abby is a SHE. I will never again suggest anything to anyone unless I have experience in the area. What was I thinking?
> I am not a musician, so I have no right to suggest someone listen to something I like. I am not a cook, so I have no right
> to suggest that someone try something I like. etc and so on ........


LOL, sorry about the gender mix up! SHE looks great! 

What I was trying to say (and not very successfully, it seems), is very different then what you are alluding to. 

I suggest you should try Schutzhund with Abby, because I LIKE Schutzhund, I bet it will really open up your horizons, and bring out the best in your girl. 

Fair enough?


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Konotashi, seek out WL breeders whose dogs succeed as companions as well as SchH. The more knowledgeable & experienced breeders can offer you invaluable guidance in finding the correct balance in the GSD right for you.There are a number of such breeders on this board.



> And dogs aren't prey, regardless of size. Particularly ones that they live together with.


Some dogs, Huskies & Malamutes most commonly, but also some GS, Pits & other breeds, will prey on small dogs, sometimes even family pets. I consider it aberrant, but it's not uncommon, & an unsuspecting owner can all too quickly be facing a tragedy (& a lawsuit). In the Huskies, Malamutes, Wolfhounds & Pits I've known, it definitely followed lines, & should be looked at when considering breeders. Dogs from such lines s/b thoroughly socialized to all sizes of dogs from an early age under varying circumstances. It's also wise to keep dogs from such lines under close control whenever tiny dogs are present, ie walks, pet stores, shows, parks etc, even if they have been socialized.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Honestly I doubt you'll be able to discern the difference maybe? Thats like asking an 18 year old to describe the qualities of a particular red wine lol


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

When I said I wanted to do SchH for fun, I know it's not all fun and games. But I'm not really 'looking' to title my dog. I'd still want to compete and titles would be awesome, but I'm not wanting to do SchH to prove breed worthiness or anything of that sort. (And is it possible to title a Pom in BH? If so, I'd love to do that!  )


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> When I said I wanted to do SchH for fun, I know it's not all fun and games. But I'm not really 'looking' to title my dog. I'd still want to compete and titles would be awesome, but I'm not wanting to do SchH to prove breed worthiness or anything of that sort. (And is it possible to title a Pom in BH? If so, I'd love to do that!  )


Possible.. but you better polish up on your training skills.

In a world where I had infinite time and money, I'd Sch3 a mini-schnauzer

Giant Schnauzers do great!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Konotashi said:


> (And is it possible to title a Pom in BH? If so, I'd love to do that! )


Absolutely. Any dog, regardless of breed, including mixes, can go for the BH or any of the SchH titles. While a Pom wouldn't be able to do a full SchH title, (if nothing else just by virtue of size compared to sleeve, dumbbells, jump, etc...) it could certainly do a BH. I think it'd be a great experience for you and Ozzy to give it a try. Great way to get some more hands on experience with SchH training, build relationships in local clubs, and such that will benefit you down the road with your GSD too.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I think Ozzy could do it. It would take a while, but he could do it.  

I was asking if a corgi could do SchH a little while back, and everyone said probably not because they're so short, and in SchH they won't adjust the size of the equipment. Sadness! How awesome would it be to have a SchH Pom?


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## mroutdoorsman (Oct 4, 2010)

rvadog said:


> Fair enough. There was a study a few years back that showed how terrible people are at guaging intent on the internet.


The same gauged intent applies to all forms of written communication unless the writer is VERY specific on how they write.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Konotashi said:


> I think Ozzy could do it. It would take a while, but he could do it.
> 
> I was asking if a corgi could do SchH a little while back, and everyone said probably not because they're so short, and in SchH they won't adjust the size of the equipment. Sadness! How awesome would it be to have a SchH Pom?


No jumps or retrieves in the BH - an obedience heeling pattern and other exercises, and the temperament/traffic sureness test. 

I think a SchH Pom would be awesome! Like having a trained miniature lion!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Konotashi said:


> I think Ozzy could do it. It would take a while, but he could do it.
> 
> I was asking if a corgi could do SchH a little while back, and everyone said probably not because they're so short, and in SchH they won't adjust the size of the equipment. Sadness! How awesome would it be to have a SchH Pom?


Look up Claudia Romard's fun schh routines with her old jack russel. YOu'll get a kick out of them (sorry too lazy to do it for you right now  )


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

PaddyD said:


> Abby is a SHE. I will never again suggest anything to anyone unless I have experience in the area. What was I thinking?
> I am not a musician, so I have no right to suggest someone listen to something I like. I am not a cook, so I have no right
> to suggest that someone try something I like. etc and so on ........


Thats not what she was trying to say at all... To use your analogy, it would be more akin to someone who plays rock music, suggesting what brand of saxaphone is best to play the blues with. If you've never played the blues, you just wouldn't know.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I think you should do Schutz with Ozzy because you'd gain exposure to several lines of GSD's and get a feel for what you want in your dog. No one line is going to fulfill all your needs it really is the dog in the end. Zoe's father is from West German working lines and mother East German working lines, but all the pups were so different in personality. Get to know some breeders and take your time since you have plenty to define what it is you want- then when you see it you'll know


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> To use your analogy, it would be more akin to someone who plays rock music, suggesting what brand of saxaphone is best to play the blues with. If you've never played the blues, you just wouldn't know.


Actually, it's more akin to somebody who plays the guitar suggesting what the best saxophone is to purchase ;-) If you've never played the saxophone, you wouldn't know.

Knowing the difference between rock and blues is a matter of music theory more than a matter of instrumental choice.

Sorry, it was just bugging me a little x.x


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

lol, ok well I know nothing about music theory! I went with that analogy since he has a GSD, so saxophone=GSD, schutzhund=blues and whatever he enjoys with his dog=rock.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Dude, I would so want to see Ozzy take on Schutzhund!!That would be so awesome!!


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