# Alpha Female



## Maloneda (Sep 5, 2008)

I'm pretty new to my dog Kasey, and vice versa. I adopted her a little over a month ago from my mom's friend who had her for about 3 years. Prior that, she was a military brat who had to be rid of because the officer's wife was deathly allergic. She's now 4 years old, 93 pounds, healthy as a horse, and super smart. She's pretty obedient and has figured out rather quickly who her new alphas are. But I am struggling a bit with a few things. Here's a couple minor issues:

first off, if my boyfriend and I are both walking her, I can tell she's confused on who to listen to. Is it possible for her obey both of us? I've made sure that we give her the same command or only one of us commands her so she doesn't get confused, and she seems to be getting better, but her obedience level with both of us is significantly less than with either of us alone. I don't want her to "choose" one or the other, as she should obey us equally, but am I shooting for the stars with that ideal??

Now the big issue. She is full on alpha female. And the smaller the other dog, the worse. I was warned about this behavior, and was even told that corrective strategies like a muzzle! were used on her. Obviously that failed and resulted in her losing the fur on her snout which thankfully grew back in full. If she's on leash, she wears a prong collar, which is the only thing that makes me able to hold back my 93 lb beast if her heart is set on pursuit. I'll start with a few instances and then explain what I do to try and "fix" this issue. I know it's probably ME with the issue, so what should I change to help her?

Instance #1: Usual daily hike off-leash. If she meets a dog enroute, she runs up rather assertively but will only "strike" if the other dog snaps at her. Even then, she typically nips them on the butt followed by the back of the neck if they still won't submit to her. Most owners get this and let her do her thing. If I walk past, she'll hesitate, then follow me. But most people I meet on the trail have medium to large dogs who can hold their own. One day, as we finished our hike, we approached the area where I typically put her back on leash. There was a couple outside with their little 15 lb dog, and it took off towards Kasey, both off leash. Kasey didn't notice at first and I began calling her (in an excited tone so as not to alert her to the approaching "play-toy"). She started to run towards me but glanced over her shoulder in time to see the dog U-turn and head back to its owners. She followed in hot pursuit and reached the dog at its owner's feet. She always approaches with perked ears and a swirling tail, no hair raised on her back, but feels it necessary to show her dominance emmediately. She batted it around until it felt cornered and yapped and lunged at her. She then pinned it down, which considering its small size, resulted in her completely engulfing it in her jaws. My boyfriend grabbed her collar and the other owner grabbed his dog before anything more could happen (be it resolution or domination). Is there anything I can do to keep her from approaching so assertively?

Instance #2: I had her off leash in the park, just the two of us. Until this point, she was doing great. She was obeying my commands almost instantly and doing great with the new ones we've been working on. She was running around like a puppy, but being ever alert as always. She would come when I called, then spring off like a rabbit when I let her "break." I saw two small dogs strolling past, on leash, and had her attention. So I called her over to me and grabbed her collar just as she spun around and spotted them. I made her sit and stay, but she still whined and growled. No barking. I waited a few minutes for them to be out of sight and released her to play again. Too soon! She bolted down the road after them, completely ignoring my commands. Luckily, they turned off and she lost them and came running back, but what if they hadn't? What if she was 300 yards from me where I was helpless? My confusion with this matter was do I reward her for coming back? or scold her for running off? I trust her intelligence to be that she knows what she did to upset me, and thus scolded her. Play time was over instantly, and she had to walk at attention the entire way home.

Any time she's on leash, I make her sit, and sometimes lay when other dogs are around. If she's still not being submissive, I lay her on her side so she can see me above her. I talk gently to her, but with a firm tone. I try and keep my demeanor calm because I know they feed off of us. I'll even show her not to "protect" me by petting the other dog and making the other dog sit for me. I know what dogs in my area I can let "hash it out" with her, but we have a lot of traveler's come through and I don't want to end up with a law-suit or something from some rich yuppy freaking out when my dog gives their pug a heart attack.

Is she too old to teach? What can I possibly do to make her realize other dogs want to play or could care less about her? They never approach in any other manner other then playful, and the few instances where they do, she submits quickly. If I didn't know any better, I'd say she goes on a power trip when the other dog doesn't "fight" back, but is really a follower when confronted.

Any comments or suggestions for me OR Kasey would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Well, the first step is, for now, to Stop letting your dog interact with other dogs off lead. This means that you do not let her off lead in any situation where another dog will be approaching. Start with that. (But yes, I think your read of her is right - she will bully who she can & in true bully fashion will back down when confronted.)

yes, you reward your dog for coming back, for letting you catch her. If you want to reprimand anyone in this situation, reprimand yourself for putting her in this position. I never seem to have the rolled up newspaper to whack myself with in these situations 'though.









The next thing I want you to do is to go to http://www.dogwise.com or any other source and order a couple of books: Bill Campbell "The New Better Behavior For/In Dogs" and Sheila Booth's "Purely Positive Training: Companion to Competition" Then order anything by Pat Miller and "Bones Would Rain from the Sky." These books will answer your question in a lot of detail and also teach you some excellent training techniques to manage your dog. 

They're going to do it a lot better than those of us posting here can do.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Hello CopperKasey, and welcome to the board. Your girl sounds exactly like my resuce dog!! The good news is that I have NEVER had any incidences where she got away from me and ran up to people and other dogs when out in public, be it a park or a well-used hiking trail. I have a secret piece of equipment that has worked wonders in keeping her under control 100% of the time:

A leash!!!

I just don't take a chance. Since I can't trust my dog 100% of the time, she is under my control with a leash and prong 100% of the time. There are places I can go where she can run off leash and I know there won't be anyone around, or I can see people and dogs from a long way off, so I know we are safe, but otherwise, I make sure that my dog does not scare, worry, upset, hurt any person or any other dog wherever we may be. 

So always on leash, and TONS of obedience classes and training got the beast under control. She is allowed to play with certain dogs that I know well and that she gets along with. Being an alpha female, I don't let her near other females, but there are some male dogs that she knows and playw well with them, and will usually defer to the older, alpha males. 

So far, you are doing good with her! Congrats! Many people would have gotten rid of a dog that "keeps running away" without even realizing that they were the ones setting up their dogs to fail, and then would blame the dog. So it seems like like a big inconvenience to leash your dog all the time, it seemed like it to me - especially since my first dog was so good, he was off leash almost all the time - but we are both used to it, and it is no big deal anymore. Flexis are great, if your dog can be voice controlled, and I always get my Keeta to heel when we pass other people or other dogs, especially on a Flexi. 

For listening to both you and your boyfriend, I would have your boyfriend work on some obedience exercises seperatly, or take her to classes on his own so she has a chance to bond to him as she has bonded to you too.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

You've already got some good advice, so I don't have much to add, other than to reiterate that if she's not good off leash, don't let her off leash! She's not too old to learn, so find a good training class and start working on it NOW, and finally - never, never, NEVER scold or punish a dog for coming to you, no matter what they did prior to that and no matter how long it took them to come back. It's not going to teach her that running off is bad, it will just degrade any semblance of recall that's she has. Coming to you should always be positive. I like to work on this in low distraction environments such as around the house, where bolting opportunities are limited and nothing very exciting to capture her attention. Reinforce with happy praise and treats - positive reinforcement training for doing the right thing rather than correcting for doing the wrong thing is very effective here. 

You've only had her a month - I don't care how old she is, at this point I'd still be treating her just like I would a brand new puppy. I wore my treat bag from the time I got home from work until bedtime so I was always ready to mark and reward behavior I wanted to encourage. Lots of short recalls around the house several times a day, until she's immediately turning and running to you when you call her. Play games where you call her name and run away from her, then reward her when she catches you and run away again. Until she's reliable (if ever, you have to be prepared for that eventuality), keep her on leash or a long line in public.


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## Maloneda (Sep 5, 2008)

Nothing like being scolded. Funny how our dogs get rewarded more for good behavior then we do. Thank you all for your input. Perhaps I'm dreaming big in hoping she can safely interact with dogs off leash. Perhaps my initial post didn't iterate that she's ON leash 90% of the time. Like castlemaid, I let her off leash in safe places where I can see what's approaching. I just mentioned the two incidents I did because they were really the only bad incidents we've had where my judgement slipped a bit. 

Common sense teaches me that if she's not good off leash, to not let her off leash. Hence her being ON leash anytime we're not hiking up the mountain or the resort is only at 10% capacity and I don't see a soul in the park except the occassional local.

THank you for the book suggestions, I will definitely check them out. And thanks for the idea of working with her in the house and with few distractions. Her military training has left her with a fascination with lights and lazers which aide well in keeping her attention on me, but not so effective in daylight. Perhaps my creativity will come in to play and I'll figure out a way to take what she knows and use it to our advantage.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: CopperKaseyPerhaps I'm dreaming big in hoping she can safely interact with dogs off leash.


Maybe so, maybe not. You've only had her a month, so it's way too soon to tell. It could take months or years of training to establish the kind of relationship you want, and realistically, in that light, she just barely met you. So don't feel discouraged quite yet, just keep working with her - she may end up surprising you!


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: CopperKasey Even then, she typically nips them on the butt followed by the back of the neck if they still won't submit to her. Most owners get this and let her do her thing.


Well, I'm not the most owners then although I'm not a rich yuppy and my dogs are not pugs. 

I would never let your dog to do this to my Yana or Anton. Yana is fearful and can turn aggressive if cornered. So if your dog would want to dominate mine she would have to deal with me first. And I wouldn't be pleasant neither to your dog nor you, sorry. I've worked hard on establishing trust between me and Yana and she knows that I'm the one who handles everything and that's what keeps her from being reactive so I would never dissappoint her. I would also not let Kasey scare my pup. 

I'm saying this not to upset or judge you but just that you don't take the behaviour of your dog lightly and really start keeping her under control. 

The advice given above is wonderful. Leash 100% of the time and working on recall and establishing leadership with her. 

Also, I don't think Kasey is an alpha female from what you described. She seems to be not very well socialized with dogs, and she's a bully. Alpha dogs act differently.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

There is a great book, 'Control Unleashed', that is very helpful for the owners of reactive dogs. Here's the link http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB943 . I'm reading it for the second time right now and it's helping me tremendously with training my dogs. 

I think that put Kasey down or roll her on her side every time she gets reactive just teaches her that something bad happens every time she sees another dog. The book I mentioned explains what to do in such situations. Good luck!! And sorry if I sounded a little harsh in my previous post.


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## Maloneda (Sep 5, 2008)

With all hopes, someone with similar problems will read this and find what I discovered helpful. Kasey is doing wonderful. FOr those who suggested I never let her off leash due to lack of trust, I feel almost sorry for your pups. Dogs should never be prisoners of a leash 100% of the time. Perhaps if I lived in a city, that would seem more reasonable, but I live at a ski resort where there's trails, ponds, streams, and acres and acres of trees to sniff and squirrels to chase. So keeping her on a leash all the time seemed unfair in comparison to the lifestyle she could have.

I misdiagnosed her bahavior. She wasn't being an alpha female as I was told by her previous owner. SHe was being protective. Her constant "passing of the leash" as I call it, forced her to be the pack leader because no one could prove to her they could handle the job, let alone be around long enough to keep the role. I've only had her 2 months, so she still doesn't trust me 100%, but she's getting there.

She may never be a dog park kinda dog, as she still struggles with little dogs, but she's at least controlled when they're around her. If she's come this far in 2 months, I can't even imagine how far she'll come in the next year.

When we go on walks, she isn't allowed to lead like her previous owners let her do. SHe stays at my side, so she has begun to see us at least as equals, and has relinquished control of our walks to me. I used to tighten up when I'd see other dogs, or hurry in another direction, but I found that was alerting her to trouble. Now I stay calm, and while my grip may tighten out of instinct, the leash does not. We walk next to fences, even with dogs charging the fence and barking at her. WHen she starts to become fixated on them, a gentle tug sideways on the leash, followed by a nudge with my knee to remind her I'm there, I'm in control, and I'm protecting her, not the other way around. SHe used to start lunging and barking at any dog within 60 feet of us, but now, if we're in a stay position, she'll watch them, but there's no movement towards them, or barking. If we're moving, she'll check back every few feet to be sure they are coming up behind us but will otherwise maintain a constant forward movement. On leash was always her time she thought she was "on duty" and other dogs couldn't pass us without her lunging at them.

Off leash is where she's excellerating quickly down the path I hoped she would. We're currently residing in a neighborhood with an open front yard and a dog in pretty much every house on the street, around the corner, and pretty much the entire neighborhood. We've only been here a week, and she's learned her boundary. She loves laying the garage with the door to the house and the driveway open. If she can't hear us talking inside, she comes to check in. If cars or people pass, she stays put. She's become more curious about passing dogs rather then concerned. While walking her, I taught her the "halt" command. I would say the command, stop, and gently stop her with the leash. We then started doing it on a longer leash, and finally off leash on our hikes. She'll stay where's she's at til I've caught up, and will walk beside me until I say "break." Which is her reward of freedom to dodge into the trees or play in the creek. This has become handy when the dog across the street in out of his yard. She wants to run over and check him out, and she'll wait til my back in turned. As soon as I hear her tags, all I have to say is "halt", and she'll stop in her tracks or at least slow down enough and get her attention on me for me to call her back. She gets a treat everytime she comes when called. She hasn't perfected it by any means, and will inch forward as much as possible and push her limits (typical adolescent). I was always a bit worried about what would happen if she made it across the street because past experience taught me she didn't greet dogs like a normal dog and usually ended up growling and nipping at them. The sniffing came after she had them submitted. This time, when she did sneak over, her tail was wagging, ears perked, and they sniffed each other calmly. She even let the pitbull stand between me and her while I petted him. When it was time to leave, a tug on her collar, and she came home with me.

I still limit her interactions with other dogs to just a few minutes so that she gets comfortable greeting them properly each time. 

THe bottom line is that its all about trust. She has to learn that I'm taking care of her. I'm protecting her. Little adjustments from her previous lifestyle have changed her status from human to dog. She's not allowed on our furniture. She must sit and wait at ALL doors to be invited through after her humans have gone through. She sits and waits for her food and water. If she's given a cracker or a slice of cheese, I get the first bite, then she can have the rest. Walks are structured: heel position until I've found a place for her to relieve herself, then she must halt, and wait for me to decide to let the leash out a couple feet, then back to heel while we explore populated areas. The hardest part is not letting her get fixated on other dogs unless she is in a down-stay position. I will allow her to observe dogs passing her or running in their yards from 20-30 feet away. I only give her affection when she remains calm and curious. If there is any tension, I snap her attention to me by making her turn her back to them, nudging her, or standing between her and the dog with my back to them so she can see I don't find them a threat.

Its been a struggle training an adopted 4 year old who was military and then half-human. Identity crisis, I'd say. Now she's learning to be a dog. She's learning to play fetch, tug-a-war, chew on bones (she had the same rawhide for 2 months and just started chewing on it today), and gets to run in the yard with my dad's airdale and black lab. Its amazing how much she's relaxed physically in the past month or so just by helping her relax mentally. I take her everywhere I can so she can see everything she missed out on being stuck in a back yard. The smell of gas stations, the buzz of main street shops, kids getting out of school and running home and to the buses, construction, pet stores...its like having a 4-year-old 95-lb puppy


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Congats on making so much progress! However! Please do not judge responsible people who leash their dogs 100 % of the time. Ilan is an alpha female. I can bring any dog into my household and she will take control calmly, and without a fight. It truly is a piece of work to watch, and she is quite adept at her skill. If Kassie in her early days had come across us, Ilan would have waited for her to go through her tirade before she calmly floored her.(With very little aggression or bossiness.) Ilan just takes over. (And she's only 64 lbs)For this reason, when I'm out in public with Ilan, (anywhere there might be other dogs off leash) she is leashed and by my side. First of all, because owners don't love it when Ilan is on top of their bossy dog, inches from their face, making a noise I can only decsribe as a grizzly bear noise. Teeth never touch the other dog.) And second, because owners don't like it!!! Becareful with the off leash making to submit action. Ilan never makes dogs submit unless their way beyond forward.(and I mean following us down the road and being pesty) If Kassie meets someone like Ilan, and she's off leash, you may have a pretty good spat to break up and then your back to square one.
On that note, you've made amazing progress in 2 months. Just be careful not to give freedom before it's proven.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Excellent progress, so glad you are learning to read each other, understand each other, and trust each other. The world needs more dedicated dog-owners like you. But do take BJDimock's post to heart, it is the polite, considerate, and correct thing to do: do not allow your dog to dominate other dogs. Same thing here: If I have my dog at my side on a leash, in a heel, and someone else allows their off-leash dominant female to to run up to us and start posturing and trying to force her into a submissive position, let me tell you, that is bad news, and if a fight ensues, the other person is 100% responsible, and I wouldn't be too happy to have MY dog, that I try so hard to keep safe, forced into that kind of situation. I allow ZERO posturing, ZERO pushiness. 



> Quote:FOr those who suggested I never let her off leash due to lack of trust, I feel almost sorry for your pups. Dogs should never be prisoners of a leash 100% of the time.


Well, that comes across as a bit arrogant, I think?









Perhaps it isn't an issue of trust, but an issue being a responsible dog owner. A bit of a more possitive spin this way.

Lucky for me, like yourself, I do live out in the booneys on acreage, and have access to acres and acres of fields used by my training club, so lots and lots of off leash time. But if anywhere else where the might even be a CHANCE for trouble, I just refuse to take that chance, and will do everything in my power to be considerate to others, and that includes not letting my dog bother, upset, or bully other dogs.


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