# Brindle GSDs?Brindle coloring in Shepherd breeds?



## Jessiewessie99

I was at the shelter today and they have 2 Shepherds who are of a pretty brindle color.One of the older dogs is a brown brindle color, yet he looks like a GSD. And recently they had 3 puppies of a brindle color 2 were the brown brindle color one was a gray brindle.I was talking to some other volunteers and staff and we were thinking there was a BYB in the area or something.I know there is brindle in pitbulls, but these dogs are clearly not pitbulls.

So I was wondering is this brindle color possible in GSDs?Do responsible breeders breed this color?Or is there another Shepherd breed that has this brindle color?


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## sagelfn

were they dutch shepherds?


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## Jessiewessie99

On their papers it says Shepherd Mix.No german or dutch.


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## arycrest

They're probably either Dutch Shepherds or mixes?

Willis listed brindle as one of the colors of the GSD, but I don't believe I've heard of the color connected to the GSD from any other source. I know he had at least one error in his books that he corrected in later editions.


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## Chris Wild

Brindle did at one point exist in the GSD breed. However the color is now extinct and has been for decades. And since it was dominant (even over sable) there is no chance that it is hiding somewhere in recessive genes.

So no, a brindle GSD is no longer possible. Dutch Shepherds are often brindle, but this breed is not very common and while I guess one could end up in a shelter just based on how few there are in the US it would be unlikely. There are many other breeds that do have brindle, so most likely the dogs were mixes of one of those other breeds, perhaps mixed with GSD, perhaps not.


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## Jessiewessie99

Its a pretty color no doubt. 

Here is what one of the pups looked like.Yes it says German Shepherd Mix on the Petfinder profile, but on her kennel papers and kennel card it says Shepherd Mix.

Here is a picture of the color I am talking about

Petfinder Pet Photo

and then on the older one:

Petfinder Pet Photo

Have you ever seen a Shepherd of this color?


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## Gib Laut

Chris Wild said:


> Brindle did at one point exist in the GSD breed. However the color is now extinct and has been for decades.......So no, a brindle GSD is no longer possible.


good summary in this article just below the brindle picture....

Brindle German Shepherd Dog - The Lost Pattern - Aringsburg's German Shepherd Dogs | Dog Time - Dog Blog Network


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## Chris Wild

That puppy is not a GSD. Looks like a pit bull mix, where brindle is possible.

The older dog could be a GSD, though the angle of that photo isn't conducive to really assessing that. She may be sable based on what can be seen in the photo. If she is brindle, then she is not a PB GSD as the color does not exist in this breed any longer. She's definitely not a Dutchie.


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## Jessiewessie99

Are there any reputable breeders that still or are trying to bring back the brindle color??


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## Gib Laut

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Its a pretty color no doubt.
> 
> Here is what one of the pups looked like.


OMG that face is adorable.....I dunno what the mix is.....but i wanna :hug: her!!!...good thing CA is a LOOOOONG way from here or I'd get sucked in by that face lol!


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## Rerun

Jessiewessie99 said:


> On their papers it says Shepherd Mix.No german or dutch.


Just because it says it on the paperwork unfortunately does not make it so. If that were the case, 99% of shelter dogs would be "shepherd mixes" or "lab mixes."

As DNA breed testing is not reliable, it is the shelters best guess. IMHO the pup is not a shepherd, doesn't look like it has shepherd in it at all actually but it could have some. As Chris pointed out, the angle the adult is photographed at is not one that someone could try to determine breed based on. Certainly looks shepherd MIXED but not purebred.


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## Chris Wild

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Are there any reputable breeders that still or are trying to bring back the brindle color??



The gene for brindle does NOT exist in the breed any longer. There is no way to bring it back. Genetics don't work that way. When the gene is gone in a population, it is gone. Aside from a strange spontaneous genetic mutation like the panda coloration popping up, there is no possibility of brindle GSDs.


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## Jessiewessie99

Chris Wild said:


> That puppy is not a GSD. Looks like a pit bull mix, where brindle is possible.
> 
> The older dog could be a GSD, though the angle of that photo isn't conducive to really assessing that. She may be sable based on what can be seen in the photo. If she is brindle, then she is not a PB GSD as the color does not exist in this breed any longer. She's definitely not a Dutchie.



The puppy isnt a pitbull either.I was with her today.And was with another puppy, I am assuming her sister, and they do not have any pitbull features about them.I have seen a few pitbull puppies and grown pits and she looks nothing like them.


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## Chris Wild

Jessiewessie99 said:


> The puppy isnt a pitbull either.I was with her today.And was with another puppy, I am assuming her sister, and they do not have any pitbull features about them.I have seen a few pitbull puppies and grown pits and she looks nothing like them.


Have to disagree. The head structure, particularly the muzzle is bully breed. It is certainly not a GSD.


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## Jessiewessie99

Chris Wild said:


> Have to disagree. The head structure, particularly the muzzle is bully breed. It is certainly not a GSD.


The other pup is a little older and has grown a bit, there is another pitbull who is brindle and they have no similar features.


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## Jessiewessie99

There many pitbulls at the shelter too and I don't think they are going to just put "Shepherd Mix".Thats false advertising.

And for this dog of the same coloring as that other pup i posted:

Petfinder Pet Photo

Yes its dark, but you can see its brindle.


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## Andaka

The two puppies are pit bull mixes, possibly with GSD, but maybe not. The adult dog it is harder to tell on.

There are no brindle German Shepherds anymore.


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## Jessiewessie99

If they were pitbull shepherd mix they would have put that.they have other pitbull mixes as well.If they are pitbull/lab mix then they put that, or if its pitbull/rottie mix or pitbull/something mix.I think if they were pitbull/gsd mix, they would pitbull/mix.I dont' think they would falsely advertise the puppy, and let people think they are adopting a shepherd mix when they are actually adopting a pitbull mix.

And my shelter doesnt do DNA testing.A lady came in asking that, and we said no.

But I am thinking there is a backyard breeder in the area producing these puppies, because we have had 3 of the same coloring.At what age do GSD pups ears start standing up?


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## Jessiewessie99

I found this on another forum.

Question about my german shepherd - Puppy & Dog Forums

Look at the user GSDGenetics response.


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## atravis

Jessiewessie99 said:


> If they were pitbull shepherd mix they would have put that.they have other pitbull mixes as well.If they are pitbull/lab mix then they put that, or if its pitbull/rottie mix or pitbull/something mix.I think if they were pitbull/gsd mix, they would pitbull/mix.I dont' think they would falsely advertise the puppy, and let people think they are adopting a shepherd mix when they are actually adopting a pitbull mix.


To be fair, the shelter has NO way of knowing the exact mix of the dogs they receive, unless they actually know the parents of the dogs in question (which most, of course, do not).

Its not false advertising, its just making the best guess possible. I've seen breed mixes that look NOTHING like what you would expect... so visuals alone are no indication of what mix a dog actually is. If they see Shepherd, then they see Shepherd. Personally, I see Pit, or possibly Mastiff type.


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## onyx'girl

This thread shows the Dutch and brindling, so your pups at the shelter may have some dutch thrown in, but as stated previously, they aren't very common...
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/130296-training-pics-02-13-10-a.html


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## robinhuerta

Jessie....
The thing about "mixes" is.....they can look or resemble any of their genetics....many puppies in a litter will have no resemblance to each other either....
There could be "several" combinations in their genetics, and the brindle color markings are just dominant enough to be consistent.
But the possibility of some "bully" breed, being in the "mix"....looks pretty probable.
JMO


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## Jessiewessie99

onyx'girl said:


> This thread shows the Dutch and brindling, so your pups at the shelter may have some dutch thrown in, but as stated previously, they aren't very common...
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/130296-training-pics-02-13-10-a.html


the lighter one looks like the puppy's coloring alot.


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## selzer

I almost think someone is mixing shepherds with boxers. Boxers come in brindle and have some of the bully features. These pups do not resemble in any way purebred GSDs.


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## Jessiewessie99

selzer said:


> I almost think someone is mixing shepherds with boxers. Boxers come in brindle and have some of the bully features. These pups do not resemble in any way purebred GSDs.


Maybe.I was thinking BYB.I will have to wait til the pups get a little older.Now there is a Collie or Collie Mix there, but I can and can't see Collie.No its not brindle.Just curious what else this cutue maybe.She was real sweet.But I have seen Collie pups and she really doesn't look it.

Petfinder Pet Photo

She has the cutest name.


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## Chicagocanine

The adult dog looks like maybe sable rather than brindle?


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## Jessiewessie99

Chicagocanine said:


> The adult dog looks like maybe sable rather than brindle?


Are there reddish brown sables?


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## Chicagocanine

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Are there reddish brown sables?


Yes there can be. Here are examples of GSD coat colors including red sable:

4GSD - Coat Colours

Kerstone Shepherds - GSD Colors, page 2


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## selzer

No, I do not see Collie their either.


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## Jessiewessie99

selzer said:


> No, I do not see Collie their either.


I would say a wolf mix, because it looks like a wolf pup.lol.


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## GSDElsa

I bet the "collie" has sheltie in her. Maybe a sheltie-hound mix?

Here's a pic of my friend's sheltie-smooth collie mix. There is a "short haired" mutatation or something like that in some shelties (and collies?). She either has it or the smooth collie hair took over.









And another picture, just because it is soooooooooooo cute. Picture of Pita and Elsa cuddling on the couch when they came to visit.









As far as the other dogs. I agree that puppy screams bully breed in that nose. Maybe not a pit, but lots of the bully breeds come in brindle. I saw boxer when I first opened the link. I don't see how they got Shepherd mix at all, but it can be hard to tell with puppies. 

As far as the adult female. I also agree you can't quite tell from the pic what she really is. It could easily be sable. I think a way to tell is the hair shafts. Sable, she should have hair that is light and just black-tipped. I think brindle the entire shaft is one color. I THINK. So please, if someone knows this, correct me if I'm wrong. She could always be a Dutchie x GSD mix, but that would be very rare......


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## GSDElsa

Actually, looking at more pictures of smooth collies, the puppy could definitely have that in it. Anyhow, the ears and the coloring reminded me of Pita, so I could say the puppy has either some collie or some sheltie in it!


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## RunShepherdRun

What is called a 'pitbull' comes in so many different shapes - the late Vicky Hearne, an afficionada of the breed, has written eloquently about it. Here's a pic of a very sweet 'pitbull' more on the terrier than on the bulldog side of the 'breed':









Coming from all breed rescue I see many mixes and many 'pitbulls'. I've come to question the practice of assigning a breed to a dog obviously of mixed heritage, unless it's known that the parents were purebreds of different breeds, a very rare situation. 

What good are these guesses for the dog and for the prospective adopter? It can be misleading if adopters then expect a particular breed's 'typical' behavior - something that can be disappointing even with a pb puppy. Ultimately, one needs to do justice to n individual, as with members of our own species. 

When it comes to predicting future size of a pup, I go by weight charts and estimated age, and when it comes to temperament and activity level, I try to do justice to the individual dog. That's what matters most when it comes to matching dogs and people. When I assess purebred GSDs in breed rescue, I also asses the individual dog - general breed characteristics matter here but are never enough to understand an individual.

I hope someone will appreciate the brindle pup for who s/he is - whatever the parentage! 

Sarah


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## Chicagocanine

RunSarahRun said:


> What good are these guesses for the dog and for the prospective adopter? It can be misleading if adopters then expect a particular breed's 'typical' behavior - something that can be disappointing even with a pb puppy. Ultimately, one needs to do justice to n individual, as with members of our own species.


That is true... A friend of mine adopted a puppy listed as a Lab mix from a shelter and as the dog grew it became obvious he had quite a bit of Border Collie in him and probably some German Shepherd. Unfortunately a Border Collie/GSD personality was NOT a good match for her.


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## LaRen616

Maybe it is a Belgian Malinois? They come in a brindle color and to the untrained eye they resemble a GSD


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## angelas

LaRen616 said:


> Maybe it is a Belgian Malinois? They come in a brindle color and to the untrained eye they resemble a GSD


I've never seen or heard of a brindle Malinois. Black masked fawn or silver yes, but not brindle.


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## LaRen616

Google Image Result for http://www.northwoodsk9.com/images/blissandmarianne1.jpg


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## LaRen616

Our cops have some brindle ones


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## Gib Laut

LaRen616 said:


> Google Image Result for http://www.northwoodsk9.com/images/blissandmarianne1.jpg



that's a Dutch Shepherd....malinois do not have brindled coats.....


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## LaRen616

Dutch Shepherd


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## LaRen616

It says.......

*"The Dutch Shepherd is a brindle Belgian Malinois. I don't go along with people that want to make them a separate breed. The truth is they are the same dog. There are no differences in there make up mentally or physically. They are the product of the mix breeding done in the Netherlands. Every breeder knows they all come from Belgian Malinois. The only difference is the color and markings. They work just like a Belgian Malinois because they are Brindle Malinois. Making them also the number one working K9 on the planet. They truly are super trainable."*


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## APBTLove

I has to disagree, those pups look like bulldog/shepherds. The head is right, the eyes are right, even the ears.. The only thing that says they aren't pit is the coat. Too long. 



























Mom looks like a pure sable GSD.


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## Gib Laut

LaRen616 said:


> It says.......
> 
> *"The Dutch Shepherd is a brindle Belgian Malinois. I don't go along with people that want to make them a separate breed. The truth is they are the same dog. There are no differences in there make up mentally or physically. They are the product of the mix breeding done in the Netherlands. Every breeder knows they all come from Belgian Malinois. The only difference is the color and markings. They work just like a Belgian Malinois because they are Brindle Malinois. Making them also the number one working K9 on the planet. They truly are super trainable."*


they are two distinct breeds....lots available on their individual histories, it's actually interesting reading.....


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## APBTLove

LaRen616 said:


> It says.......
> 
> *"The Dutch Shepherd is a brindle Belgian Malinois. I don't go along with people that want to make them a separate breed. The truth is they are the same dog. There are no differences in there make up mentally or physically. They are the product of the mix breeding done in the Netherlands. Every breeder knows they all come from Belgian Malinois. The only difference is the color and markings. They work just like a Belgian Malinois because they are Brindle Malinois. Making them also the number one working K9 on the planet. They truly are super trainable."*


That makes no sense, they admit there were breeds mixed in to create a Dutchie, and that they COME from Mals, they are not MALS. 

Just like the American Bully, it comes from the American Pit Bull Terrier, but no way in heck is it an APBT.

They just contradicted themselves... They also need to learn how to spell.


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## Chris Wild

The Dutch Shepherd and Malinois are NOT the same breed. They are two completely separate breeds with different physical and mental characteristics and different histories. The foundation dogs of both breeds are somewhat related (and also somewhat related to the foundation dogs of the GSD in some cases) but they are not the same breed.


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## Jax08

Chris, Is it true that all 3 breeds came from the original German Shepherd breedings but that the three breeds branched off separately?


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## Lauri & The Gang

A common practice at shelters is the following:

If the ears are pointed - it's a GSD mix

If the ears hang down - it's a Lab mix


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## angelas

Lauri & The Gang said:


> A common practice at shelters is the following:
> 
> If the ears are pointed - it's a GSD mix
> 
> If the ears hang down - it's a Lab mix


This is true. Here though you could add that if it has a black, shaggy coat its a Border Collie mix regardless of ear carriage.


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## Dainerra

Lauri & The Gang said:


> A common practice at shelters is the following:
> 
> If the ears are pointed - it's a GSD mix
> 
> If the ears hang down - it's a Lab mix


sadly, a lot of rental companies/breed restrictions follow the same rule. add in black/tan = rottie and muscular/short hair = pit bull


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## Jessiewessie99

There is another dog there she has Rottie colors, and has a docked tail(she came in like that) but she kinda has a shepherd look to her.When I first saw her she had a rather long coat, too long for a purebred rottie.
Her name is Aspen and she is 8 months old, her petfinder profile lists her as Rottie, but at the Shelter we have paper that say the dogs age, breed,sex,whether or not the dog is fixed, their energy levels, grooming levels, good with other dogs or not, good with kids or not, good with cats or not, and any other notes about the dog.Where her breed is listed it says Rottie mix

Petfinder Pet Photo

Regular Rottie at 8 months

http://www.choicek9s.com/files/rottweiler_male8months.jpg

Here is a GSD mix with Rottie colors, but she has shephrd eyes.Can Purebred GSDs have this coloring?Her name is Cherry she is about 1-1/2 years old:

Petfinder Pet Photo


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## Jessiewessie99

This what the coat of the older dog I posted when this thread started looks like, except he has a tail.lol.










His coat is just like that.


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## APBTLove

That's just sable.

As for GSDs having rottie markings, I've seen shepherds with markings like a rottie or dobie. It's not the usual colors, but it happens. 

Here is an example of a GSD with rottie like markings.
http://nothinbuttdogs.com/AprContest/Tasha.jpg

And a lot of times a bicolor can have rottie-like markings, but not as defined. 
http://www.blackgermanshep.com/Inca_natural_stack_7-17-07.jpg

And blankets:
http://www.east-coast-gsd.com/site_images_system/user/Bella_Standing_(2).jpg


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## Jessiewessie99

Has anyone ever seen a rottie with a long coat?


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## Chicagocanine

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Here is a GSD mix with Rottie colors, but she has shephrd eyes.Can Purebred GSDs have this coloring?Her name is Cherry she is about 1-1/2 years old:
> 
> Petfinder Pet Photo


Wow Cherry is beautiful! Yes, purebred GSDs can have that coloration, it's either called blanket back or bi-color depending on the pattern. 

The one you said is listed as a Rottie/Rottie mix doesn't really resemble a GSD to me, I would also call her a Rottie mix. Definitely not all Rottie though.


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## APBTLove

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Has anyone ever seen a rottie with a long coat?


They do indeed have a long-coated variety..
http://www.colossalrottweilers.com/images/Dakotacut.JPG


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## LaRen616

I saw a Rott with a longer coat at one of the Dog Parks by my house, he was huge! 200 pounds of oh my goodness. My cousin has a very large Rott and it's probably the only dog I have ever been afraid of. When I was babysitting my cousin's 4 children (4! ) Her Rott came after me and I swear I thought he was going to break the door down. I never babysat for her again. But yes, they can have a longer coat.


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## Jessiewessie99

Chicagocanine said:


> Wow Cherry is beautiful! Yes, purebred GSDs can have that coloration, it's either called blanket back or bi-color depending on the pattern.
> 
> The one you said is listed as a Rottie/Rottie mix doesn't really resemble a GSD to me, I would also call her a Rottie mix. Definitely not all Rottie though.


Yea she is beauty.lol. As for the rottie we thought some sort of shepherd mix, not a GSD but something shepher, because her face doesnt look very rottie.


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## robinhuerta

I have also seen a "liver" colored Rottweiler, beside the "coated" variety. Thank goodness, they are not common....it is a no-no.....


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## mariah

*i own a bridle german sheperd*



Chris Wild said:


> The gene for brindle does NOT exist in the breed any longer. There is no way to bring it back. Genetics don't work that way. When the gene is gone in a population, it is gone. Aside from a strange spontaneous genetic mutation like the panda coloration popping up, there is no possibility of brindle GSDs.


i own one she is sleeping a my feet she is a pure breed bgsd german sheperd bridle this was no spontaneous gene i had a blood test done on her she is pure breed bgsd so do ur research before u say things u dont know her momma was brindle and so was her dad `want a pic


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## Jessiewessie99

mariah said:


> i own one she is sleeping a my feet she is a pure breed bgsd german sheperd bridle this was no spontaneous gene i had a blood test done on her she is pure breed bgsd so do ur research before u say things u dont know her momma was brindle and so was her dad `want a pic


This is an old thread.


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## W.Oliver

mariah said:


> .......a pure breed bgsd german sheperd bridle..........i had a blood test done on her she is pure breed bgsd.....her momma was brindle and so was her dad `want a pic


Yes please, we would love a picture!! Several would be awesome, how exciting to see a brindle GSD!!:laugh:


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## Zoeys mom

I want a picture please!!! Never seen a brindle GSD though Chris knows his stuff. Could it be a sable and the breeder was just using the term brindle to market the dog?


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## W.Oliver

Zoeys mom said:


> I want a picture please!!! Never seen a brindle GSD though Chris knows his stuff.


Yes he does!, but still I'm sure he would be equally as exicted to see some nice photos of a brindle!!


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## Jessiewessie99

Pictures please!!


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