# 6 Month pup with hip dysplasia? Please help!



## White GSD (Jul 8, 2009)

Hey everyone, I noticed that for the past few days my puppy has had a limp in his rear legs. The limping occurs on and off. Some days he does not move very much and limps when he walks, and other days he looks perfectly normal and runs very fast. I decided to take him the the vet and the vet thinks he may have hip problems. He recommended that x-rays be taken and that he will need to be sedated for the process. 

My question is, can puppies develop hip dysplasia this early? Will sedation be detrimental to his health this early in age? My girlfriend, who is more knowledgeable in dogs than I am, suggests that maybe his limp is caused by his fast growth. She noticed that his hind legs are currently a little longer than his forelegs and that is causing the awkward limping. She also thinks that the puppy may grow into his longer legs...ie, eventually the problem will fix itself. What do you guys think? Any experiences similar to this?

Also, my vet was talking about a new procedure called "Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis" and that my dog needs to receive this treatment before 20 weeks of age if he has hip problems. The vet gave me a little pamphlet on the procedure and states the following:

"This surgery is performed on young puppies before age 5 months, so it generally done as a preventive procedure before it is known if the puppy will indeed have dysplastic hips. The pubic symphysis is the cartilage seem connecting the right side of the pelvis to the left side. As an individual matures, this cartilage converts to bone and the two halves of the pelvis fuse permanently. This surgery prematurely seals the symphysis, which in turn results in rotation of the developing hip sockets into a more normal alignment. While studies show promise, because this procedure is done on puppies who do not yet actually have hip dysplasia, it is hard to evaluate success."

What do you guys think of this? Any opinions on this treatment? Sorry for the very long post, I am just worried about putting my pup in surgery this young in age. 

Thanks in advance!


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## Technostorm (May 24, 2009)

This is a very interesting subject and matter. Although I don't know the answers to the above, I'll be watching other more experienced owners and breeders comments.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

actually very common. some vets sedate, my vet doesn't. I don't like to sedate esp. that young. xrays can be taken by a good vet tech who can position right without putting them out. it's probably just pano considering his age. You can check for hd after 4 months. some dogs might be loose, but really bad hips would be obvious. i find it more disturbing the vet is wanting to talk about surgery without even knowing what he's looking at. 


pano aka growing pains







welcome to puppyhood, lol


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Could just be Panosteitis...the vet I was using when I had Onyx spayed at 6 months mis-diagnosed her pano, and positioned her terrribly for her x-ray. Told me she had "severe" HD. I posted the x-ray here, and luckily was told position was horrible. It was only Pano. She had two other bouts and it went from rear leg the first time to the fronts on the last two bouts. She is long legged and her rear is higher than her shoulders.


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## dogsnkiddos (Jul 22, 2008)

Our Old Bitch was dx'd with hip dysplasia very young. She developed front limp and we went to the ER. Since we were to going to have her spayed a few days following and since she was going under (a little before being 6 months) we asked that they xray her hips (I was a worry wart, I had no real reason to request this) along with the front. Our regular vet broke the HD news (front was pano). We saw an ortho.. and she immediately had a triple pelvic osteotomy (sp?) (and since she was under a needed nose biopsy- see we maximize the time under







). She was probably 7 or 8 months old. Post surgery we were told that if he saw the xrays he would tell us our dog had sever hip dysplasia- that is how bad she was before surgery- that there was really little correction possible. He told us that only one side was even able to have surgery and that we would look at another surgery when she was older. We had her checked and xrayed every year to keep an eye on things. Fast forward to last year when she was 8.... her limp was back and she was slowing. We consulted an ortho and discussed hip replacement vs femoral head removal...we did one on one side and another on the other based on their thoughts of what would work best for her. She is still slow (but she is old and has other health problems) but seems pain free- AND she is frisky.

Finding out early was good. We were able to take extra care and treat as we went. I think it has been very helpful.


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## DSudd (Sep 22, 2006)

Angela that was my first thought also. Pano is a pain but they do outgrow it. Rocky had bouts for about 6 months when he was a puppy.

Anyways you can get a second opinion before you try to xray him?


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## White GSD (Jul 8, 2009)

Thanks for the replies!

Angela_W I hope you are right. I remember when I was a teenager, I had some aches and pains in my legs from the growth spurts, I am hoping its the same for Kylo (my puppy).

I noticed that my puppy is very nervous around the vets and makes the check ups difficult. Kylo tends to struggle a lot when the vets try to take his temp or his heart beat. The vet said, that sedation would be needed for this case because he needs to be perfectly still for the x-rays. What do you recommend? Should I go ahead and let the vet take the x-rays with sedation? Or should I find a vet who can do the x-rays without the sedation?

Also, I agree, I found it disturbing as well when he mentioned surgery. He talked about it almost as if he was 100% sure Kylo would need it. Now I am starting to doubt the validity of my vet. The vet kept wanting to schedule the x-rays as soon as possible. I took Kylo to the vet earlier today, and the vet wanted Kylo back no later than Friday! I am a little worried that the vet is in it for the money since he quoted me at $281.28 for the x-ray and sedation.

Dsudd, excellent suggestion! I think I will have another vet take a look to get a second opinion before the x-ray.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would look for another vet-maybe an ortho.Your pups pic in the avatar is absolutely adorable!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The fact that the irregularity to the gait is intermittant really suggests that this is pano I would get another opinion, and ask that pano be ruled out prior to committing to any surgery. On x-rays, pano is very obvious, so if they are looking at the hips, it can be done at the same time.

Lee


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## White GSD (Jul 8, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlI would look for another vet-maybe an ortho.Your pups pic in the avatar is absolutely adorable!


Thank you! I was lucky to get that shot when I pulled the camera out and he tilted his head lol.

I think I will do that then. I will get a second opinion and ask about pano before the xray. Thanks guys!


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## bmass01 (Apr 7, 2005)

I would get a second opinion.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: White GSD
> 
> Also, my vet was talking about a new procedure called "Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis" and that my dog needs to receive this treatment before 20 weeks of age if he has hip problems. The vet gave me a little pamphlet on the procedure and states the following:
> 
> ...


Personally I find this very disturbing.


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## gr8flcat (May 13, 2006)

I vote Pano as well. It seems early to start mentioning surgery. Oddly enough the surgery you mentioned was done on a foster dog (ok, foster failure) I had. His surgery was done in Japan. (Originally, he belonged to a military family) He had quite a strange gait when he ran, but he was ok. At the time, our surgical vets had never seen a dog who had this surgery. I don't know how bad his dysplasia was prior to surgery. That option seemed extreme to tell you the truth.


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## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

Pano is my vote also.
The teenage therapy I have never heard of. I would certainly look into this completely b4 deciding on that treatment.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

You've got some good advice


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

If you have xrays, I would have them under sedation by an ortho vet - you want good info on which to base decisions. 

My dog went lame quite young and had a TPO Ttriple pelvic osteotomy) at 14 months, which is considered old for the surgery. There are important criteria to meet for that surgery.


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## M&J (Nov 16, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTIf you have xrays, I would have them under sedation by an ortho vet - you want good info on which to base decisions.


Absolutely. Rudy was dx at 8 months with severe HD. Went straight to a board certified ortho surgeon.


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## White GSD (Jul 8, 2009)

Hey everyone, I go the X-rays taken of Kylo's hips about a week ago but I wasnt able to post pics of them because my photobucket account was having some problems. I finally was able to fix the problems!

Anyways, the vet says that Kylo has HD. Hey says that his hips are not the worst he has seen, but they are not the best either. I was hoping that you guys can take a look and give me your opinion, I know that GSDs are supposed to have loose hips when they are young, so maybe that explains the small gap? The vet says there is a small chance that his hips might get better as he grows. What do you guys think?

I also asked about pano, the vet says its definitely not pano as this conditions is described by "dark stains" on the bone where the veins enter the bone. 


















Thanks!


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Is that really what the xrays looked like, or did the picture get "smooshed" when you transferred it here?


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I agree that the x-rays look distorted. His bones look way THICK towards the bottom. Was this a digital x-ray or did you take a snapshot of a film? If so, make sure the film is flat when you take the picture. If it was a digital x-ray maybe the dog wasn't flat when being x-rayed? Or maybe photobucket distorted it...

I'm not an expert, but I think his right hip reminds me of Djenga's when I had them done at 7 or 8 months old. Hers may have been a little worse, I need to dig up the photo to look. As an adult there is a lot of arthritis in the joint, but she's never shown signs of pain. Just a slight irregularity when she trots. But her other hip is great, and she is a smaller female, so that must make it a lot easier on her.

I do think both of his hips look pretty loose. Is there a vet hospital or orthopedic specialist in your area? I would see if you could get a consult, I would trust them over a regular vet. I don't like the sound of the surgery your vet mentioned, but there are other options.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Yep, if that is what they really look like, they are bad.
The femoral heads are misshapen, and the femoral necks are short, thick and not really "there."
The hip sockets look bad with lots of remodeling and changes.

IF those xrays are representative of the hips, then I would get that pup to an orthopedic specialist.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I agree that you should go to an orthopedic specialist. Even if it isn't the greatest pic of the x-ray I still see lots of problems there. 

Massie, my first dog, was diagnosed with severe bilateral HD at just under a year. She had two different surgeries and lived to be almost 12. There are more surgeries available now than there were then (21 years ago!) and also lots of great supplements you can use to help build healthy joints and keep arthritis in check.


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## White GSD (Jul 8, 2009)

Thanks for the replies! I compared the two pics to the original and the first one is pretty distorted. The first pic has been "smooshed" somewhat. The second pic is distortion free, it looks just like the original. So based on the second pic, it is pretty obvious that Kylo's hips are bad?

I have also been looking for an ortho specialist in AZ but I have had no luck finding one! My vet said that he submitted the x-rays to a radiologist for a more accurate analysis. I called my vet this morning and they said they have not heard back from the radiologist. So I am crossing my fingers that I will hear good news, but at this point I am starting to lose hope .


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Where in Arizona are you? My dog actually had her hip replacement surgery in Tempe! I drove there from Albuquerque. I know that vet isn't there anymore but I bet you've got someone good somewhere in the area.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

If you need a second opinion and are not having luck near you, you can always send the xrays to OFA (offa.org) for a consult, or to Auburn University for a consult. 

The second picture you posted does not look anywhere near as weird/bad as the first


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

> Quote:I have also been looking for an ortho specialist in AZ but I have had no luck finding one!


I don't know where in Arizona you live but here are some places to check out:

http://www.vscot.com/services.asp?frame=Surgery
http://asgscottsdale.com/
http://www.azvs.com/practices.asp?PID=7&pname=sur_services

This is a list of surgeons in AZ, some of them are large animal but you can look and see if someone is close to you. Good luck with your puppy.
http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/FindaSurgeoninYourArea/index.cfm?flShowForm=0

Michaela


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Does look like HD to me. Flattened femoral heads, laxity and less than 50% of the head in the socket. I would see a aspecialist as soon as you see what the radiologist says. it is good that your vet sent the films to radiologist. 

The earlier you diagnos and treat, the better the outcome. HD is NOT a death sentence. I hvae had several dogs with it and I had my female's right hip replacerd last September. Kayos is doing well nad runs like the wind and is pain free. She is 6 1/2 and shoulds live a good long life with this.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Yes, I'm not so scared of dysplasia as I was before. The other day I met a lab at the park and I was amazed to hear that she had both hips replaced. I would never have guessed that because she ran, and swam, and retrieved and was a super happy girl!


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## kayek9 (Aug 27, 2002)

I have a friend that had her shepherd's hips done in AZ, she had total hip replacement and had it done here: 

Dr Bone 

Dr Bone (strange name for an orthopedice surgeon, huh?) was wonderful she said and would recommend him to anyone. She had a very positive experience with her dog, had the surgery when she was about 3 years old and she lived to be almost 13. 

Hope that helps.


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## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

Been there with Lainey a couple of months ago. The vet expert at Tufts told me one side was worse then the other and told me about the same surgery. Had to be done before any arthritis set in and she got older etc. Also was honest and said in a room full of vets, half would say to do the surgery as a preventative measure for the future and the other half would say it was unnecessary surgery and not to do it. He stood behind whatever decision I made and was comfortable either way because she had mild HD. Started her on GlycoFlex and haven't looked back. She runs and plays with her brother, lives her life with no strenuous jumping (ie. frisbee) and is doing okay so far. She is nine months now and nothing showing yet. Good luck with whatever you do.


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## White GSD (Jul 8, 2009)

Wow thanks for the replies! My vet finally got back to me with the radiologists' opinion. The radiologist diagnosed Kylo with HD. He said that his hips are not over the top terrible, but they are not good either. Right now we have Kylo on some pain medication and he has been doing great. We limit his activity however. The vet says that surgery may not be a good choice right now because he is still growing. He says that hip replacement is not very wise right now since his hip will grow and will need further surgery when he is older. I am thinking I will get Kylo x-rayed again when he is fully grown and then consult one of the surgeons you guys provided (thanks by the way!) about surgery and options. Is this a good idea?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Unfortunately it was 17 years ago that she got her surgery there. 

I believe someone posted some orthopedic specialists in Scottsdale though--did you see those?

You should definitely put her on supplements and Ester C. I have Rafi on a double (sometimes triple) dose of Springtime Inc. joint supplements and 2000mg/day of Ester C (introduce _very_ gradually). It has made a HUGE difference in his mobility. You could never tell from looking at him that there is a problem. 

I believe that there is one surgery that can only be done if the dog is under a certain weight. Did he tell you about that one? A TPO I think???


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

It depends on what kind of surgery you want to have as an option.

A THR can be done way down the line when really needed. An FHO is not as good a surgery but can also be done whenever. But if you wait, you're taking TPO off the table, as that can only be done when the dog is still young and growing and before major arthritic changes have set in. If you definitely don't want to do a TPO then there's no problem with taking a wait and see approach. The only other age dependent surgery is the JPS that you brought up originally but I think at this point your puppy is probably already too old for that anyway.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

The main pros and cons to the different surgeries (as I see them) are as follows:

FHO
Pros - can be done at any time, is usually the cheapest of all the surgical options.
Cons - requires forming a false joint, I don't think you can do a THR or anything else if it doesn't work. Often not recommended for large dogs because it's harder for the false joint to bear much weight.

JPS and TPO
Pros - much less expensive than a THR though more than a FHO. Less risky than a THR and may prevent the need for one in future allowing dog to live HD symptom free life. I think the JPS is one of the least risky of the options. The TPO has a little more potential complications but not as many as either the FHO or THR.
Cons- Must be done young, usually before the dog is showing many symptoms so it's hard to tell how needed it actually is. Relatively new procedures so hard to judge efficacy. 

THR
Pros - the gold standard in terms of creating a new and perfect joint.
Cons - potential for serious complications such as bone infection that could mean amputation of the limb. Most expensive of all options. 

Of course there are lots of other things to consider and lots of factors specific to the dog in terms of which procedures they're the best candidate for etc. but that's my understanding of the various surgical options in a nutshell.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote:I believe that there is one surgery that can only be done if the dog is under a certain weight. Did he tell you about that one? A TPO I think???


TPO doesn't have any weight restrictions but must be done usually before 10 months of age or much arthritic damage. I think you might be thinking of an FHO - that's the one where they remove the whole joint and the dog forms a false joint out of muscle. They're not really recommended for large breed dogs although I know people who have had them done on large dogs with good success. The dogs I've seen that have had them do not have a normal gait at all but do get around okay. 

We had double TPOs done on our GSD Leo. I would term them successful in that he's now 4 years old and has zero signs of dysplasia but since we had to make the decision about the surgery before he ever showed any symptoms of dysplasia, it's hard to know what I'm comparing it to. It's possible he would have done just as well with supplementation. It's also possible he'd have been severely crippled by now. TPOs and JPSs both require some guesswork about the future so it's hard to know a. if you should do it and b. if it is responsible for the dog not having problems years later.


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## M&J (Nov 16, 2002)

Your pooch is young, the chances for a cementless THR will be better. My Rudy had one at 18 months. We haven't looked back. 
He was on antibiotics post surgery so risk of infection was low, and there was no chance of an allergy to the cement.


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

Just a nother bit related to the TPO surgery:
I had a GSDx (55-60 lb dog) that had TPO done on both of his hips between 8-12 months of age. He was showing signs of HD prior to the surgeries. He had trouble getting up from a down and was limping. X-rays confirmed the HD (by both my regular vet and an orthopedic specialist).
He went from being a relatively quiet puppy to a 24 hr a day dog that took a lot to tire out (although he did have an "off" switch). He lived until 14+ years old and never had any further problems related to the HD.
This was some 23 years ago and I didn't know much about supplements back then, so he never received supplements over the years after his surgery.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Yes, I got the TPO and FHO conflated in my head! 

Massie was diagnosed at 1 year old so I guess it was already too late for the TPO. She got a pectineal myotomy (I don't even think that's done anymore but was recommended at the time) on one side and a total hip replacement on the other.


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## White GSD (Jul 8, 2009)

The TPO sounds promising as you guys described it. I will look further into this and discuss it with a surgeon so I can understand the procedure better and get an estimate on cost. I will definitely start Kylo on supplements as well. My vet recommended 500mg once daily of glucosamine/chondroitin. Is it safe to also get him some Ester C that BowWowMeow mentioned? I am worried that the two supplements might not mix well with each other?

Thanks!


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I HIGHLY recommend joining the HD yahoo group if you have not done so already. There are a lot of knowledgable people on there. There is also a TPO yahoo group that you should join if you think that might be a surgery you're interested in. 

You definitely want a TPO done by an orthopedic specialist. We have been happy with Leo's results, but, as I mentioned, it's hard to know for sure that the TPO is what fixed him since we did the surgery before he started showing symptoms. Still - we're very happy that at age 4 he still has shown no indication of HD. Some dogs are better candidates than others due to the positioning of the pelvis etc, so that's something to find out about too.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: White GSDMy vet recommended 500mg once daily of glucosamine/chondroitin. Is it safe to also get him some Ester C that BowWowMeow mentioned? I am worried that the two supplements might not mix well with each other?
> 
> Thanks!


Many dogs take a gluc/chondroiton/msm product and additional Ester C. It is very important to introduce the Ester C slowly though because if introduced too quickly it can cause diarrhea. I would introduce them one at a time so that if there is a problem you will know which supplement is causing the problem.


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