# Aggressive with People



## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

We have had Victor since he was 13 months old. He came from a training facility. His previous owner took him back after a year because she had lots of people in and out of her house and he was having to be crated all the time because he was always trying to attack people. We were told later that he actually bit service guys at her home.We knew he was protective but we did not know the severity of it until later. We being novices at GSDs did not know what questions to ask when we met with his trainers or what we were getting ourselves into. We found out later his mother was aggressive with people and went into a frenzy mode too. I wish to never speak with these trainers again because of their unprofessionalism. Victor's trainer yelled at us and told us to beat him and to put him to sleep when we called about his aggression issues later. He told us I don't want that dog back on his property. He also went back on his 6 month guarantee we had but I would never let Victor go back after the way the trainer acted. We have learned a lot about the GSD in the 7 months that we have had him. It is just myself and my husband and our animals. We chose not to have children and have made our animals our children. My husband is gone a lot so I am by myself most of the time. Victor is very protective of us especially me.Our problem is that no matter how much we introduce him to our family members that visit he tries to attack them. The same family members have had several play sessions with him but no matter what when anyone comes to our property he tries to attack them. We can not trust him with them because if anyone makes sudden movements he tries to grab them.Everyone is uneasy with him except myself and my husband. He has grabbed my nephew's leg and tried to with my niece but I pulled him back. We have used a prong collar, an e collar, we have crated him,he is still aggressive with people. He is super obedient does his commands well. He gets along with my cats,Jamie Lee,all of our pets it is just people he does this with. We just can not control him when people come over he will not listen to his commands if he was to dart out past me and someone was in the yard he would not stop. He goes into a frenzy mode and nothing will stop him from going for someone all his training goes out the window when he is in this mode. I have a lot more incidences with him but this is already long enough. Next is working with him with a muzzle on with his prong collar. By the way we live way out in the country so classes and trainers are not an option for us. This is something we are gonna have to do on our own. Any suggestions would be helpful!! We love this dog and we want to be able to have him included with family functions. Our family loves him but are uneasy around as he is unpredictable with people. Thank you in advance for your help.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I understand how you feel, I have a aggressive dog as well. I got him almost 4 months ago and he is almost 2 years old. I cannot trust him with people or children. I'm trying to fix this but I dont know if I'm in it for the long haul.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> I understand how you feel, I have a aggressive dog as well. I got him almost 4 months ago and he is almost 2 years old. I cannot trust him with people or children. I'm trying to fix this but I dont know if I'm in it for the long haul.


Thank you so much for your post. It is nice to know there is someone else out there in my situation. We love him so much but we are getting so frustrated with him over this. He has had problems adjusting to Jamie too but we am dealing with those issues they are much less important than his people aggression. We were thinking about seeing our vet about him but we are afraid to medicate him(afraid of reactions)or have the vet want to euthanize him for his aggression but he is so unpredictable with people.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

JustMeLeslie said:


> Thank you so much for your post. It is nice to know there is someone else out there in my situation. We love him so much but we are getting so frustrated with him over this. He has had problems adjusting to Jamie too but we am dealing with those issues they are much less important than his people aggression. We were thinking about seeing our vet about him but we are afraid to medicate him(afraid of reactions)or have the vet want to euthanize him for his aggression but he is so unpredictable with people.


It's a difficult situation. 

I dont want to be viewed as a quitter or someone who rehomes dogs but I do not have a bond with him, I feel like I tolerate him. I dont have the money for a good trainer. I have health issues right now that just developed and I have to take care of them. I honestly wish I never got him. I was misinformed about him, he became my problem and I dont know if I want to continue to work with him.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Have you had a thyroid panel done?

To be perfectly honest with you, people aggression is not something that I give many chances over. You need professional help in order to work on this if you never have had to deal with it before, there are no exceptions to that. It may come down to the decision of keeping him away from people or euthanizing him. 

He may never be comfortable with people in his home and you need to be really honest with yourself and if you cannot keep him and other people safe, you have a very tough decision on your hands.

Not to be overly negative but you need to be real about the problem you have. I hope that some experienced trainers come along and offer some insight on things you can do.

Best of Luck!

ETA: The use of harsh training tools like the prong collar and e-collar (especially if not under the guidance of a trainer) can actually make the situation worse. (I am not anti either of these tools btw)


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I just watched an episode of It's me or the Dog with an aggressive dog. I only caught the end of it, but it might help. It seemed low-stress for the dog and the family said she was progressing very well. I know it's not really what you're looking for, but if I can find it, I'll send you a link. It could be worth a shot. I'd try other people's suggestions first, since this was from a TV show, though.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

For me it's....

1) Is he worth it?

2) Am I willing to spend lots of money on him for trainers?

3) What if we get through all of this but I still am not bonded to him?

4) What if he does serious harm to someone?

5) What if he bites someone and I get sued?

6) Is my heart in this?


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> It's a difficult situation.
> 
> I dont want to be viewed as a quitter or someone who rehomes dogs but I do not have a bond with him, I feel like I tolerate him. I dont have the money for a good trainer. I have health issues right now that just developed and I have to take care of them. I honestly wish I never got him. I was misinformed about him, he became my problem and I dont know if I want to continue to work with him.


I don't think you will be a quitter or be viewed as a rehomer. You don't have a bond with him as we do to ours. I think sometimes you can try all you can and nothing ever gets through to some dogs. Hey we are both trying our best to help our dogs and I can tell you after to speaking to various people about Victor's issues that a lot of people would have gave up a long time ago on him. In the long run you have to do what is best for you and your family(whether it is furbabies,children or both). As far as what others will say about how you deal with your situation there are always gonna be people saying you gave up or you did not do the right thing and try to make you feel bad but in the end you have to know in your heart that whatever decision you make it was the best for you.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

JustMeLeslie said:


> I don't think you will be a quitter or be viewed as a rehomer. You don't have a bond with him as we do to ours. I think sometimes you can try all you can and nothing ever gets through to some dogs. Hey we are both trying our best to help our dogs and I can tell you after to speaking to various people about Victor's issues that a lot of people would have gave up a long time ago on him. In the long run you have to do what is best for you and your family(whether it is furbabies,children or both). As far as what others will say about how you deal with your situation there are always gonna be people saying you gave up or you did not do the right thing and try to make you feel bad but in the end you have to know in your heart that whatever decision you make it was the best for you.


Thank you, that is really nice of you. 

I think for me the situation would be completely different if I actually bonded with or loved the dog. If I loved him then I would make a bigger effort with him, I would spend the money to hire a professional trainer. I feel like "Ok, he's here and I feed him and take care of him, I tolerate him but I dont enjoy him." It would be alot easier on me, my animals and my friends/family if I got rid of him. I could go back to focusing on Sinister only. I could go back to spending all of my time with Sinister and taking him everywhere like I used to.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> Have you had a thyroid panel done?
> 
> *To be perfectly honest with you, people aggression is not something that I give many chances over. You need professional help in order to work on this if you never have had to deal with it before, there are no exceptions to that. It may come down to the decision of keeping him away from people or euthanizing him. *
> 
> ...


 
That is why this is so hard for us because we are afraid he is going to hurt someone. I am afraid he is going to seriously hurt someone. We are afraid that we may have to euthanize him as it is in his blood.His mother was very aggressive with people and they should have never bred her. They were in it for the money. It is a hard situation for us but we recognize he is dangerous. I hope someone has some pointers for us.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> Thank you, that is really nice of you.
> 
> I think for me the situation would be completely different if I actually bonded with or loved the dog. If I loved him then I would make a bigger effort with him, I would spend the money to hire a professional trainer. I feel like "Ok, he's here and I feed him and take care of him, I tolerate him but I dont enjoy him." It would be alot easier on me, my animals and my friends/family if I got rid of him. I could go back to focusing on Sinister only. I could go back to spending all of my time with Sinister and taking him everywhere like I used to.


I completely understand. My family loves him but they are uneasy around him. The puppy(Jamie Lee) is great with everyone and she is so calm with everyone as we want Victor to be. Is yours aggressive with people too? Are you going to try to rehome or PTS? What are your options? I think if you have tried everything and just can't make this dog work then he has to go. Don't let anyone make you feel bad about it.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

Konotashi said:


> I just watched an episode of It's me or the Dog with an aggressive dog. I only caught the end of it, but it might help. It seemed low-stress for the dog and the family said she was progressing very well. I know it's not really what you're looking for, but if I can find it, I'll send you a link. It could be worth a shot. I'd try other people's suggestions first, since this was from a TV show, though.


 
Thank you and anything I can get to help with this situation is appreciated.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

JustMeLeslie said:


> I completely understand. My family loves him but they are uneasy around him. The puppy(Jamie Lee) is great with everyone and she is so calm with everyone as we want Victor to be. Is yours aggressive with people too? Are you going to try to rehome or PTS? What are your options? I think if you have tried everything and just can't make this dog work then he has to go. Don't let anyone make you feel bad about it.


Yes, he is aggressive towards people. He is also toy/food/dog aggressive.

I dont want him to be pts. If there is a way to rehome him to someone that is a trainer or has worked with aggressive dogs and knows what they are getting into then I would rehome him to that person.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> Yes, he is aggressive towards people. He is also toy/food/dog aggressive.
> 
> I dont want him to be pts. If there is a way to rehome him to someone that is a trainer or has worked with aggressive dogs and knows what they are getting into then I would rehome him to that person.


Ok so you are in the same boat as us. Don't want to PTS but rehoming is going to be hard due to the aggression. I have spoke with someone who works with rescues(known her a long time,very animal friendly) and she also fosters and she said that no rescue is gonna want a people aggressive dog. I don't want to rehome the puppy but I am having a hard time dealing with both of the dogs. Victor requires all my time and it is hard to train with her so rehoming one has crossed my mind. The issue with that is if I rehome her and I have to in the long run rehome Victor or put him to sleep then I will have neither of them. I feel as if I try to rehome Victor he is gonna eventually seriously hurt someone. I don't want to pass his problems on to someone else as the trainers did to us.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

JustMeLeslie said:


> Ok so you are in the same boat as us. Don't want to PTS but rehoming is going to be hard due to the aggression. I have spoke with someone who works with rescues(known her a long time,very animal friendly) and she also fosters and she said that no rescue is gonna want a people aggressive dog. I don't want to rehome the puppy but I am having a hard time dealing with both of the dogs. Victor requires all my time and it is hard to train with her so rehoming one has crossed my mind. The issue with that is if I rehome her and I have to in the long run rehome Victor or put him to sleep then I will have neither of them. I feel as if I try to rehome Victor he is gonna eventually seriously hurt someone. I don't want to pass his problems on to someone else as the trainers did to us.


I completely understand you, his old owner lied to me about him. She said he didn't have any issues and that he was a great dog. I feel like a fool for believing someone that I didn't even know. I've tried calling and texting her but she wont return my calls or texts.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Do you put Jamie Lee in a crate while you are trying to train Victor? That may help with his focus. Also, putting Victor in the crate while you train Jamie Lee. Don't neglect her just because Victor needs more attention. It won't hurt him to have an hour time out while you spend quality time with Jamie Lee.


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

Leslie, have you already started to train Victor to accept wearing a wire basket type muzzle? If you have bonded to him and want to give him a chance, the first thing to do is start working on acclimating him to a muzzle. He can pant, eat treats, and drink with one on and it's a great way to ensure that people are safe while you are working with him. Don't treat it like a punishment, at first only have him wear it while doing low-stress things like training or eating treats.
I would join a list that has been amazing for me- it's called Positive for Reactive Dogs- Pos-4-ReactiveDogs : Positive Training for Reactive Dogs. Just searching through the archives, you can read about how people have worked with dogs that many would say are hopeless. It has been a great support for me and there are many knowledgeable members. Before you join, though, be forewarned that the list only endorses the use of positive methods (so don't post about the prong, e-collar, etc or you'll get a bunch of people telling you all about why they think they're awful). 
It sounds like you are really committed to this dog, he is lucky to have found you.

Edit: the main reason I joined the list is because we discovered Regen is reactive toward small children and other dogs...and we plan to have kids while we have her.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> Do you put Jamie Lee in a crate while you are trying to train Victor? That may help with his focus. Also, putting Victor in the crate while you train Jamie Lee. Don't neglect her just because Victor needs more attention. It won't hurt him to have an hour time out while you spend quality time with Jamie Lee.


 
We have a kennel in the back of the yard that I can put them in while I am spending time with the other one. It is behind the house so the other one can't distract the other. I give several sessions(training and free playtime) throughout the day with individual time and together time. Before dark I do training with Victor and tennis with him I have to tether Jamie to me or put her in the kennel because she will constantly run at his side biting him if I don't. I then after tiring him out work with her. She is not ball driven at all so that is why I don't play ball with her. I work with her training after he is tuckered out. Victor is awesome with his obedience training and Jamie is doing good as well. I don't think any of his problems are from not getting all the attention. He was like this before we ever got the puppy. It is just the people aggression that is the big issue. He is so possessive over me and my husband. He thinks everyone is a threat.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

JustMeLeslie said:


> He is so possessive over me and my husband. He thinks everyone is a threat.


Does he only act like this with you and your husband? It is only on your property?

Have you read the book Mine! by Jean Donaldson? If he is just possessive of you, then it may be resource guarding.

What does it look like when he is aggressive toward other people? Hackles up? Footing? Ear set? Charging or backing up?


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

Runswithdogs said:


> Leslie, have you already started to train Victor to accept wearing a wire basket type muzzle? If you have bonded to him and want to give him a chance, the first thing to do is start working on acclimating him to a muzzle. He can pant, eat treats, and drink with one on and it's a great way to ensure that people are safe while you are working with him. Don't treat it like a punishment, at first only have him wear it while doing low-stress things like training or eating treats.
> I would join a list that has been amazing for me- it's called Positive for Reactive Dogs- Pos-4-ReactiveDogs : Positive Training for Reactive Dogs. Just searching through the archives, you can read about how people have worked with dogs that many would say are hopeless. It has been a great support for me and there are many knowledgeable members. Before you join, though, be forewarned that the list only endorses the use of positive methods (so don't post about the prong, e-collar, etc or you'll get a bunch of people telling you all about why they think they're awful).
> It sounds like you are really committed to this dog, he is lucky to have found you.
> 
> Edit: the main reason I joined the list is because we discovered Regen is reactive toward small children and other dogs...and we plan to have kids while we have her.


A muzzle is the next step I am trying on him. I don't have a wire basket one as to they don't sell them near me. I have a cloth one right now to start out with.This is the type that was used on him at the vet also. I put it on him last night and he was not able to remove it. It allows for him to drink and pant also. I will have to try to get him used to it because he was very uncomfortable with it on. Thank you and I will take a look at the website suggested.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> Does he only act like this with you and your husband? It is only on your property?
> 
> Have you read the book Mine! by Jean Donaldson? If he is just possessive of you, then it may be resource guarding.
> 
> What does it look like when he is aggressive toward other people? Hackles up? Footing? Ear set? Charging or backing up?


He acts like this in our yard and in our house and our vehicles. When I take him to the vet sometimes he is good Victor but has to be muzzled and sometimes he growls at everyone.He sometimes will be a good boy at the vet and give no problems at all. My vet will take him out to where he can not see me to check him out. He is not discriminate when he does growl it is at children,men,women young or old. He does not seem to like anyone but us. When he is aggressive he lunges for them goes to attack them. He never backs up and he does not snarl or show his teeth first. He goes straight into attack mode. He does the growling at the vet or if he is in a crate. In our vehicles he watches everyone around us if someone gets close he goes into attack mode-barking and if someone was to come close I have no doubt he would attack them.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i would suggest that despite living out in the country, if you do by chance have anyone come to your door, Keep a SHORT leash, you should be able to find a 12 inch leash at a pet store, to clip to his collar and start muzzle training him. Keep the muzzle by the front door along with a small container of treats and the short leash. Post a sign on your door stating you have a dog in training and to please be patient while you work with him to answer the door. knock on the door, muzzle goes on and leash is clipped and he must sit and STAY right next to you. Otherwise shut the door and put him back in the stay. treat him when he behaves. and if you have people over, if he isnt crated behind a closed door, he should be attached to you by that short leash and you should have the muzzle in hand at all times so its available if necessary. hope that gives you some ideas. I'm not sure if anyone else already stated as much.

would also suggest a muzzle and a short leash in the car(s) as well. he should be muzzled whenever he is out and about with you. especially while you're working on training. reactive dogs are no fun. I hope you guys are able to "tone him down" some. Best of luck.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> i would suggest that despite living out in the country, if you do by chance have anyone come to your door, Keep a SHORT leash, you should be able to find a 12 inch leash at a pet store, to clip to his collar and start muzzle training him. Keep the muzzle by the front door along with a small container of treats and the short leash. Post a sign on your door stating you have a dog in training and to please be patient while you work with him to answer the door. knock on the door, muzzle goes on and leash is clipped and he must sit and STAY right next to you. Otherwise shut the door and put him back in the stay. treat him when he behaves. and if you have people over, if he isnt crated behind a closed door, he should be attached to you by that short leash and you should have the muzzle in hand at all times so its available if necessary. hope that gives you some ideas. I'm not sure if anyone else already stated as much.
> 
> would also suggest a muzzle and a short leash in the car(s) as well. he should be muzzled whenever he is out and about with you. especially while you're working on training. reactive dogs are no fun. I hope you guys are able to "tone him down" some. Best of luck.


We already do the leash/sit thing with him. I am going to incorporate the muzzle into this also. We have a fenced in yard so no one can just come right up to the door. As far as the stay command and treats it does not work with him if he thinks someone is outside or hears the other dogs bark he is ready to go get someone. Nothing has worked so far to stop him from trying to attack--treats/his ball nothing. He becomes frenzied. I have his prong collar/leash by the door and as soon as he sees someone he is unable to be controlled. Nothing as far as treats/ball/commands can stop him. He is trying to get at the people the entire time. Muzzle is definately the next step for him.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

JustMeLeslie said:


> We already do the leash/sit thing with him. I am going to incorporate the muzzle into this also. We have a fenced in yard so no one can just come right up to the door. As far as the stay command and treats it does not work with him if he thinks someone is outside or hears the other dogs bark he is ready to go get someone. Nothing has worked so far to stop him from trying to attack--treats/his ball nothing. He becomes frenzied. I have his prong collar/leash by the door and as soon as he sees someone he is unable to be controlled. Nothing as far as treats/ball/commands can stop him. He is trying to get at the people the entire time. Muzzle is definately the next step for him.


 
sounds like you have a stubborn very driven boy there.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> sounds like you have a stubborn very driven boy there.


Absolutely driven..As we found out much later after acquiring him his mother was very people aggressive too. He is the same way she was. I just wonder what happened to all his littermates if they all turned out aggressive like him. The breeder and trainer is just out to make money. He owned the mother and he knew she was people aggressive and bred her anyway,trained her puppies and sold them. He trained the puppies so he could say they are obedient trained so he could get more money for them. He had no regards to how they would turn out later on with thier mother's aggression issues in their blood.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

JustMeLeslie said:


> Absolutely driven..As we found out much later after acquiring him his mother was very people aggressive too. He is the same way she was. I just wonder what happened to all his littermates if they all turned out aggressive like him. The breeder and trainer is just out to make money. He owned the mother and he knew she was people aggressive and bred her anyway,trained her puppies and sold them. He trained the puppies so he could say they are obedient trained so he could get more money for them. He had no regards to how they would turn out later on with thier mother's aggression issues in their blood.


 
well one thing i can suggest you do also. even in a frenzy he'll eventually realize that the door will get closed or ignored all together when he behaves a certain way. It may take a while and will always be a work in progress, but every single time he goes into that frenzy force a sit. I had a trainer tell me once to choke Zena out. Zena isnt people aggressive. Zena is protective so theres a difference. But this might be one of those cases i would suggest choking him out when he starts getting too rowdy. Obviously you cant do that with a prong but they do make collars specifally for it. Leerburg | Dominant Dog Collar

its called a dominant dog collar. made specifically for dominant and aggressive dogs. couldnt hurt to check it out. have you guys been able to contact a behaviorist?


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> well one thing i can suggest you do also. even in a frenzy he'll eventually realize that the door will get closed or ignored all together when he behaves a certain way. It may take a while and will always be a work in progress, but every single time he goes into that frenzy force a sit. I had a trainer tell me once to choke Zena out. Zena isnt people aggressive. Zena is protective so theres a difference. But this might be one of those cases i would suggest choking him out when he starts getting too rowdy. Obviously you cant do that with a prong but they do make collars specifally for it. Leerburg | Dominant Dog Collar
> 
> its called a dominant dog collar. made specifically for dominant and aggressive dogs. couldnt hurt to check it out. have you guys been able to contact a behaviorist?


I have a choke collar for him I can use instead of the prong collar. I will get one of the leerburg. I am definately try the choke out on him. Thank you so much for that suggestion. The trainer had a prong and choke chain on him so that is why I use those. I will as soon as I can get the one you suggested. Thank you.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

JustMeLeslie said:


> I have a choke collar for him I can use instead of the prong collar. I will get one of the leerburg. I am definately try the choke out on him. Thank you so much for that suggestion. The trainer had a prong and choke chain on him so that is why I use those. I will as soon as I can get the one you suggested. Thank you.


 
hope it helps. good luck with everything.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

Well I have found out there is another member on here that got a dog from the same place as I and their dog is starting to show signs of the same aggression. I believe Victor's people aggression comes from his mother. It seems to be a passed down trait--a breeders irresponsibility. If anything I have learned from this whole ordeal is that it definately matters about a dog's temperment through their bloodline. I am going to try some suggestions I got from here and go from there. I will take it step by step and try what I can to help him and also keep everyone safe.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm sorry your having problems with Victor and I did read the other poster who has a 6mth old from the same breeder starting the same problems.

Here's some thoughts from the peanut gallery, and suggestions..

I know you know, victor could be a big liability if he bites someone, with that in mind, there are some dogs, that are not going to be rehab'd the way we wish them to be
However, and it can be a pain, been there done that, they CAN be managed, it's not easy, and it's can be a 24/7 job, but it sounds like you love him, and he's good with you and your husband. If your willing to except him for what he is, and know his triggers, again, he can be managed.

I think trying a muzzle when you have people over, isn't a 'bad' idea, but it could amp up his aggression from frustration. With that in mind, if I had company, I would have a crate set up in a quiet room, and cover it with a blanket, put him in there, with a chewie, a radio on, a 'quiet' area for him. 

I also like the book control unleashed. and there are others out there, that can give you some ideas on management. 

If he goes out in public, I'd have a muzzle on him, safe for him, safe for others, the minute he reacts to something, remove him from the situation, to a place where he stops reacting, the minute he stops reacting, reward, whether it's high value food, a toy..

I wouldn't STOP going out in public, but I would distance myself from things that set him off, and again muzzle..

Like I said, you will probably never be able to fully trust him, but you can manage him if you want to take on the task..

Good luck, keep us updated


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I'm sorry your having problems with Victor and I did read the other poster who has a 6mth old from the same breeder starting the same problems.
> 
> Here's some thoughts from the peanut gallery, and suggestions..
> 
> ...


My husband and I are in it for the long haul with Victor. We just discussed the Leerburg collar and the muzzle idea. We just decided to get him a crate for our bedroom and crate him when we have people over because we realize that we are never going to be able to trust him with people. Our bedroom is located in furtherest corner of the house where guests don't go before we crated him in a room close to the bathroom and that was a disaster.The plan of action is the Leerburg collar/muzzle and then crate. He gets extra aggressive if we crate or kennel him before company gets there so we want him to see who is there and then be crated. If the muzzle does amp him up then we will eliminate it. Thank you for your help.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

I just want to thank everyone for all their help. The best thing I ever did was join this forum. It helped us so much!!! I am about to cry as I type this because we were so conflicted about poor Victor. It is nice to know there is support out there such as this forum. Thanks to all once again from the bottom of my heart.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I have one that needs to be out of sight when strangers come over. She's fine outside the house and great with people who come over often, but for your average person stopping by we lock her up to be safe. She'll growl and bark for about 5 minutes and then settle down with her bone ignoring them for the most part. However, if we let the beast out she'll run right up to them growling and barking then run right back to her crate. She's just our quirky little fruitcake at a year old and is getting better each month. Give Victor time he might surprise you


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Zoey's mom, ya know some dogs don't "want" to be aggressive or nasty, it is what it is, and I'm sure that behavior is stressful for him as well, he's just wired different, and like I said, managing can be a pain, but it can be done..

If you guys love him and he obviously loves you and his little sista,,living with his quirks just may be a way of life,


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

My heart goes out to you. I had a female that was fear aggressive, meaning she did not lunge at people but she would bite them when their back was turned. She was a pet store dog hence a puppy mill no doubt. She ruled our life until the age of 12 when we had to put her down.

If you are able, find a trainer that knows how to deal with this. I later found a friend that trains using a clicker. Kaycee loved it and did well, she also loved agility. 

It is so sad that people will breed these dogs and that people like you will end up with them. I am sure like me you have learned the hard way temperment is EVERYTHING! I have since had 3 dogs from the same breeder and what a difference. these dogs love everyone, it is a pure joy.

Best of luck to you, I know how hard it is.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

vat said:


> My heart goes out to you. I had a female that was fear aggressive, meaning she did not lunge at people but she would bite them when their back was turned. She was a pet store dog hence a puppy mill no doubt. She ruled our life until the age of 12 when we had to put her down.
> 
> If you are able, find a trainer that knows how to deal with this. I later found a friend that trains using a clicker. Kaycee loved it and did well, she also loved agility.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your post. Victor definately has to be the center of our world. Temperment is definately everything that is something we have learned from all this. Jamie is from another breeder/different lines she is nothing like him. She is calm and non aggressive thankfully. She is only 5 months old and I hope her temperment stays the same. She does not have to be the center of attention like Victor.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> well one thing i can suggest you do also. even in a frenzy he'll eventually realize that the door will get closed or ignored all together when he behaves a certain way. It may take a while and will always be a work in progress, but every single time he goes into that frenzy force a sit. I had a trainer tell me once to choke Zena out. Zena isnt people aggressive. Zena is protective so theres a difference. But this might be one of those cases i would suggest choking him out when he starts getting too rowdy.* Obviously you cant do that with a prong but they do make collars specifally for it. **Leerburg | Dominant Dog Collar*
> 
> *its called a dominant dog collar. made specifically for dominant and aggressive dogs. couldnt hurt to check it out.* have you guys been able to contact a behaviorist?


 
I went to the site and watched the video but it says to measure under his chin to his ears but I come up with a 9"-10". I am not sure I am measuring that right. They don't mention where to start with a long snouted dog(GSD). He wears a 20" collar and that does not slip off of his neck but 10" seems too small. The video states that most collars are too big and I understand the idea of this collar and I know it needs to be snug. Does anyone else use this collar? Does that seem like a right measurement for a GSD?


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i am sorry you are dealing with this...........its a frustrating road for sure........especially trying to do things on your own without professional help......

i am sure most of it is the genetic lianage, and lack of proper social introduction early on...........

my thoughts having a dog like yours is to change the prong collar, this can sometimes make things worse................a gentle leader works better for me, for some reason when its on it humbles them..........you have to keep trying things until you hit on something that works...........thankfully there is a wealth of information on counter conditioning and handling these issues lots of great books, online stuff etc..........

with my dog, i have made leaps and bounds with people..........but, its a very slow process, one that can't be rushed..........it is manageable..........you need to let the dog know you will handle things make his decisions for him.......keep going with obedience exercises, building trust with you, etc..........and i would definitely keep him out of reactive situations, once a behavior is learned and repeated its harder to fix......He has learned that growling, attacking gets him what he wants, for the people to back up, leave, whatever............

you know the dog best, you live with him every day, get creative, try different things...............if you truely have a bond with this dog, you Can get to a better place........

debbie


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

debbiebrown said:


> i am sorry you are dealing with this...........its a frustrating road for sure........especially trying to do things on your own without professional help......
> 
> i am sure most of it is the genetic lianage, and lack of proper social introduction early on...........
> 
> ...


Is the gentle leader collar the same as a Leerburg-dominant dog collar? I was suggested that one but I am not sure if I am right with the sizing? I will immediately stop using the prong collar many have told me it is not what I need for stopping him/slowing him down to get to someone. I just need help choosing a better control collar for him. He has to be able to see that someone is at the house because if I crate him before they get here it gets him more riled up. If that happens he is even more aggressive because he can't see who it is and when they leave and I let him out he searches for them and not in a good way. I need a collar so I can control him better. Thank you!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

My girl was fear aggressive to some extent with strangers. I adopted her when she was 16 months old so have no history on her. I thought I would Never ever be able to trust her with people. 

First thing I did was to make everyone who wanted to come over, call me first. When they were due to arrive, I would muzzle her & crate her. Once my guests were in the house they would be instructed to ignore her when I brought her out. I attached a leash and kept her close to me at all times. I would visit and move about the house with her, my guests would move about the house, but I never let her feel boxed into any situation. No one was allowed to walk up behind us, etc. She would also try to grab the calves of their legs as they left, so she is not allowed to ever walk behind people. Eventually, with Dog Savvy People only, I would let her approach them on her own. If she approached they were allowed to speak to her, but still no eye contact or petting. Nadia would sniff them and come back to me. (She was still muzzled at that point) As long as she did not act aggressive she was allowed to stay out, but I always kept a leash on her & the muzzle. At some point I stopped the muzzle. Now I don't use the leash either. She still sniffs guests and returns to me. If a new guest comes, we start the process over. I never ever take a chance that someone new will be fine for her. 

After many visits and lots of training and socializing she is much better. I still do not her come out to walk guests to their car. She will still try to nab the back of their leg. I still watch her like a hawk every moment there is someone here. But it has come to a point that I trust her so much more. Her confidence has been built up, and she is such a good sweet girl. If I did not trust her I would never have let her do this:










Often times it helps to ease her stress if she has a toy in her mouth









You can tell by her whole demeanor that she is relaxed and completely trusts and loves my Grandson. She HAD to be on the couch with him and my male, despite the lack of space at that time









So give your guy time, take baby steps with him. You still have to be the pack leader but it can be done in gentle ways. Don't push him too fast. He will come around


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your help!! I am just needing help choosing a collar now? I was suggested the Leerburg but I don't think the measurement I am doing is correct? Anyone have experience with this collar?


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i think Zisso is right on with her counter conditioning, very small steps, non intimidating situations, controlling the people encounters etc.............

the halti, or similar, a gentle leader i think works best for these dogs, a muzzel can be a good tool with some situations as long as your not pushing things on the dog when its on.............


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

JustMeLeslie said:


> I went to the site and watched the video but it says to measure under his chin to his ears but I come up with a 9"-10". I am not sure I am measuring that right. They don't mention where to start with a long snouted dog(GSD). He wears a 20" collar and that does not slip off of his neck but 10" seems too small. The video states that most collars are too big and I understand the idea of this collar and I know it needs to be snug. Does anyone else use this collar? Does that seem like a right measurement for a GSD?


I personally havent used this collar before but in the video for sizing that collar he said his female malinios had a 13 inch neck. To me, if that dog is 13'', then 10'' seems too small for an almost 2year old male GSD  I think youre right. Are you using a string to mark it off and then measuring that?


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

Klamari said:


> I personally havent used this collar before but in the video for sizing that collar he said his female malinios had a 13 inch neck. To me, if that dog is 13'', then 10'' seems too small for an almost 2year old male GSD  I think youre right. Are you using a string to mark it off and then measuring that?


I used one of those flexible measuring tapes you get in a sewing kit. I thought the same thing that that measurement for Victor has to be wrong.
I wanted to order the collar as soon as possible but I guess I will let my husband watch the video and see if I just did it wrong. He is out of town right now so I guess I will wait unless someone can help me before that.


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