# Why does my dog do a behavior wrong?



## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

We all have opinions on this and I would love to hear yours!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

My personal opinion is that dogs only very rarely choose to be disobedient. The vast majority of the time if a dog makes a mistake or appears disobedient it is because the dog either lacks the understanding of what he should be doing (lack of training, mixed signals or unclear communication from the handler) or the dog has been placed in a situation beyond his current level of ability (distractions too high, etc...).

So more often than not, it's a trainer/handler/people problem, not a dog problem.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Dogs only do what they 'know'.

If they are doing something wrong then they do not know the right way to do it.

Teaching them the 'right' way to do anything is the job of the OWNER.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

We're not talking about puppies are we? My 7 year old female knows right from wrong and if anyone - my children included - do something wrong, she lets them know.







I call her The Enforcer.

My puppy, he just likes to be naughty to see what he can get aways with. When I catch him doing something he knows is wrong, like sitting on the couch with a bone, he looks at me like 'Gonna tell me no?' 

Luther was the same way as an adult, I adopted him when he was 2 and I think he was allowed to get over as a pup. Taught him to push his luck but I wouldn't let him. He spent a lot of time in timeout the first few months he lived here!


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

There are no bad dogs only bad owners.

I agree if the dog doesn't know any better its the owners fault not the dogs!

They all love to test the boundries and see what they can get away with Brady included


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

We are talking about dogs over 1 year old. Great responses!!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I'll stand by my first response - even for adult dogs - and add one more thing ...

The reward from doing the wrong behavior is greater than the consequences of being caught doing it.

Case in point – my Cocker Spaniel and stealing food. Like most typical Cockers, Tazer loves food. He adores food. He WORSHIPS food!







And he steals food.

We have tried many different ways to remove this behavior but if he succeeds even just once in a million tries – the reward from that one time (getting the food) is worth what he went through the other 999,999 times.

The one thing we haven’t tried is to put an electric collar on him, set him up by leaving something like a loaf od bread on the counter and then we would hide out of sight with the remote, using it to negatively mark (shock) him every time he goes for that loaf of bread.

I KNOW we would wear out the batteries before HE gave up trying.

And it’s not just the tasty stuff he goes after. We’re talking about the dog that broke into my suitcase to eat half a bottle of blood thinners and a handful of anti-depressants!

We know his limitations – he cannot resist food – and we remember to not put things where he can reach them.

At least we TRY to remember … we won’t talk about my garlic bread from dinner last night that went MIA when I left the kitchen (and left it sitting right at the edge of the counter).


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

i've got to disagree a little... while the above responses are correct alot of the time - my dogs will do a behavior incorrectly out of laziness and/or eagerness. i compare them to a child - when you tell them... "clean your room and you can have an ice cream cone" all of a sudden the room is cleaned in record time and they're ready for their reward, upon inspection you see that the books are just thrown onto the bookshelf, not stacked, and the clothes are all shoved in the closet.

now i will take responsibility and say that once upon a time the dog was probably rewarded anyway for only doing a mediocre job and thats why they see fit to test their limits, but either way... thats how and why my dogs will do a behavior wrong... they're trying to see if they can get away with the bare minimum. i'm sure of this because often times i'll still only give the command once ("speak" for instance) and i'll watch Gia struggle with a whine, then a mumble, then a little bark, then a big bark but breaking her sit position, then finally she'll sit again and produce the bark i want and i'll toss the treat. its the same with sitting before they eat - i let them take as long as they want to do it, but the bowls dont go down until both are seated and looking at ME, not each other and not the bowls.

any opinion on my theory?

eta: after reading lauri's response - i understand and agree 100%. now my question would be... after realizing my own fault (in once upon a time awarding the behavior) and correcting me, becoming more strict, etc etc... how long will it take for them to then shape up. seriously, Gia's been trying to get away with a cheap bark for a few years now and i refuse to give in.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I agree that if a dog is doing something wrong it is because they either don't understand what is being asked of them or they have been taught to do the behavior wrong (usually because their person has unconsciously reinforced an undesirable behavior).


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

Let's make this a little more specific. Let's do this. Imagine that you gave your dog a cue to "sit". He did not "sit". Can you specify the reason why he might not have sat"?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: JoelSilvermanLet's make this a little more specific. Let's do this. Imagine that you gave your dog a cue to "sit". He did not "sit". Can you specify the reason why he might not have sat"?


ha!, if it were my (HD) dog, i'd say its because her hips were causing her pain that day


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I'll use Rafi as an example because Chama has always been perfect (even now that she's deaf she still follows commands to the letter!). 

There are several reasons Rafi won't sit if I ask him. One is that he's too distracted (a squirrel is within striking distance), another is that he's too anxious (a loud truck drives by so he breaks his sit to move further away from the curb) and the third is that he's too fixated on a game (he is supposed to sit before I throw his ball but often he becomes obsessed with the ball and only sits half way or 3/4 of the way). So for him it's always something else breaking his focus from me. That said, although he doesn't necessarily follow through with his commands like a robot he is very, very reliable and always comes through when I need him to.









One thing I've noticed about lots of people's dogs is that the dogs are very slow to obey commands when they sense their person is angry with them. The dog goes into slow motion (or no motion) in an attempt to calm their person down.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

The hips.. never thought of that one..GOOD ONE!!!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafoddereta: after reading lauri's response - i understand and agree 100%. now my question would be... after realizing my own fault (in once upon a time awarding the behavior) and correcting me, becoming more strict, etc etc... how long will it take for them to then shape up. seriously, Gia's been trying to get away with a cheap bark for a few years now and i refuse to give in.


IMHO I'd say that Gia has decided the reward isn't worth the effort.









Seriously - that's my Corgi mix to a tee! If I'm having everyone Sit and I'm handing out dry dog cookies, she'll walk away without sitting. The reward wasn't worth the effort.

I'd try stepping up the reward for a bit with Gia and see where that gets you.


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## AllisonS (Oct 16, 2007)

Anything that Greta does wrong is directly reflected on me.

Even my mother has called me out on being so in love with her that she sometimes gets away with murder. 

What can I say? I went about 10 years without a Shepherd and I adore the brat.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Camerafoddereta: after reading lauri's response - i understand and agree 100%. now my question would be... after realizing my own fault (in once upon a time awarding the behavior) and correcting me, becoming more strict, etc etc... how long will it take for them to then shape up. seriously, Gia's been trying to get away with a cheap bark for a few years now and i refuse to give in.
> ...


but geeeez, in the end isnt it suppose to be "because i said so"?









(this coming from a kid who wouldnt even take her dads glass downstairs unless he gave her a piece of candy or a dollar)

i know what you mean tho, and she's already proven that. if the reward is her ball - bam - full bark - first try.... if its anything else we have to go thru the "game" with her... however, she does end up doing it, so she does want the treat. i just cant figure out - if you're gonna do it anyway, why not do it right the first time.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: JoelSilvermanImagine that you gave your dog a cue to "sit". He did not "sit". Can you specify the reason why he might not have sat"?


Verbal cue:

Dog didn't hear me
I didn't say it right
Dog couldn't understand what I said

Physical cue:

Dog didn't see it
I didn't perform it properly (the way I usually do)


Other reasons:

I have never proofed the dog to sit in the situation we’re in – like having the dog jump up on a big boulder and then sit.

The dog has a physical reason not to sit – pain in hips, back, legs, joints, spine, butt, tail. 
The dog has to go to the bathroom – sitting would be VERY uncomfortable.
Dog has a rectal tumor (one of the first signs with Riggs was that his sits became slower and slower).


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> but geeeez, in the end isnt it suppose to be "because i said so"?


Do you work 8 hours a day just because your boss SAYS SO?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> ...












point taken


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Okay, I'll bite!

Example one: My old Aussie was VERY, scarily smart! I rode horses and he often went to the barn with me. My horse hated dogs, so we taught Cobi "Get out" to mean go back to the other side of the barrier. Cobi would go out.... but invision the dog standing right beside the fence, when I gave the command from the back of a horse, he would proceed to walk diagonally to the farthest side of the ring.... look at me... and not actually step out until given a second command. 
Why?! Because he did NOT want to leave.

Example 2: I got a very nice, totally trained male GSD. I was so excited to try out the commands I took him to the club, did some heeling, sits, downs, etc. Put him in a down, walked away, and then gave a recall. He looked at me, rolled over on his back and stuck all four feet in the air!!
Why?! Because we had not bonded and he did not do commands from just anybody. After about 2 weeks of getting to know each other and building a relationship, he never missed a command.

However, in most situations, I would say the dog does not truly understand the command. My Kenju quit responding to recalls correctly when I only used the verbal cue. In training, I had always put my hands in front of me and THAT was his command... I never knew it until preparing for trial where I could not move my hands.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodderbeen trying to get away with a cheap bark for a few years now and i refuse to give in.


Maybe you have to look at it from a different angle. From a dog point of view I don't think a pitch or mumbly bark is more effort than a a deep full bark. Barking is, after all, more than an obedience trick for them, it is still a way of comunication and to loudly bark to the dominant one is disrespectful and should deserve punisment. Many dogs, mine included, have a big conflict barking at their masters. The SAR dog of a friend can be 5 minutes barking at the victim, but can't do more than a yelp to his handler, its normal. With Diabla is the same, she knows the command, but if I ask her to bark at me, all you see is clapping jaws with no sound or little "cheap" barks. If I put the ball (the reward) on the floor or with my arm extended it's a lot easier to her to bark at the reward than to me. And the more you raise exigence, the more conflict they feel.

If your boss ask you to shout out to call somebody, it's easy. If your boss tell you "Shout at me" probably you'll need several tries before it sounds convincing.


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## novarobin (Oct 4, 2007)

LicanAntai ~
That is a really interesting angle. 
When I think about it, I have seen examples of the same behavior. I did some quarry work with a K9 unit for a training course for one of the new dogs. Whenever given the direction to "speak" at me during training, say in box searches or stand offs, the dog would give loud, intimidating barks. When the handler was doing some obedience and the dog was instructed to speak, he got cheap barks. 
Kaper and Hary are the same way. It is very difficult to get a good bark out of Kaper directed at us, but tell him to speak at someone else, its a different story. Kaper is also very submissive towards us, especially DH.
Chatham has no issue giving a loud bark when he is demanding something, like a treat, but he is a very demanding dog (attention or treat wise).


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: JoelSilvermanImagine that you gave your dog a cue to "sit". He did not "sit". Can you specify the reason why he might not have sat"?
> ...


I think Laurie nailed the question with this post. I didn't even think of some of these situations, duh!


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

Add 2 more to Laurie's great list.

1. STRESS If the dog is stressed due to illness, unknown or feared environment (vet's office?) or handler's own stress, he/she may not respond to a first command.

You will often see panting or yawning with this type of reaction.

Sometimes we, as handlers, do create the stress. Anyone work so hard to show off what your dog knows that your voice and body are tense? Watch your dog turn the head or look down to avoid trying and failing.

2. exhaustion or repetition to the point of boredom. Even our GSDs will stop working if we go at one task too long. At that point they will just shut down - again a stress reatcion, but a different type.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: JoelSilvermanLet's make this a little more specific. Let's do this. Imagine that you gave your dog a cue to "sit". He did not "sit". Can you specify the reason why he might not have sat"?


1) Health problem
2) Poor surface (maybe he doesn't want to slip and slide on the waxed floor)
3) No generalization (he was always taught to sit in the kitchen for dinner, but never anywhere else. What does "sit" mean when he is outside on the grass?)
4) Not enough proofing under distraction (nuts to you and your sit, Mom, I want at that squirrel!)
5) No random rewarding in place (dog ALWAYS got a treat and ALWAYS saw that there was a treat to be had so when the treat wasn't there, he thought "what's the point, no reward.")
6) Behavior was not sufficiently taught (owner progressed too quickly)

I'm sure I can think of more. Everything is down to handler error one way or another. Health problems are still indirectly our fault as it is our responsibility to know the health condition of our dogs! Of course it doesn't work out that way all the time. In the end, when the dog doesn't perform as we hoped, we need to sit down and think about what has happened, see if we can break the behavior to smaller pieces, get advice, etc.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

Great responses by the way!!! Especially the last one. 

I have always liked to keep things simple for the new pet owner. One of the ways that I have done this (and this is in my book coming out this spring) is to understand why the animal did the behavior incorrectly. I have always focused on two reasons why.

1. CONFUSION - The animal does not understand - In many of the of the reasons which you layed out so well, the underlying problem is that the animal simply does not understand. It could be related to almost everything that was listed so well in the previous post... there are many reasons why the animal may be confused.

2. TESTING YOU - This means the animal knows how to do it, it's just that he's doing it wrong on purpose. I might also add that this is a sign of a very smart dog. (There were a few of those too)

The reason it is so important to understand these two reasons is that the way I teach to correct the animal for TESTING and CONFUSION are as different as night and day.

On the opening page of my website there is a video on "testing and confusion".


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## sleachy (Aug 10, 2001)

Interesting discussion.



> Quote:Let's make this a little more specific. Let's do this. Imagine that you gave your dog a cue to "sit". He did not "sit". Can you specify the reason why he might not have sat"?


If the dog has had sufficient repetitions of reward and sufficient chance to generalize this command but still fails to perform, I must ask myself...was my request unreasonable? COULD the dog sit in that circumstance? I don't mean just physically...what about mentally/emotionally? Did I put my dog in an uncomfortable/stressful situation? If so, how can I help him to succeed?


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JoelSilverman
> 
> 2. TESTING YOU - This means the animal knows how to do it, it's just that he's doing it wrong on purpose. I might also add that this is a sign of a very smart dog. (There were a few of those too)


tyson must be a genius!


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Try having a bunch of guide dog pups in the house!!!! The pups that I raise come from generations of dogs who must ignore a command if they feel it isn't safe. Huh. No wonder they leave them with the foster family until after adolescence!!! (Sorry, can't sit for you now! A very dangerous dust ball has just rolled by!)


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I'll add one. The dog has learned that you don't enforce the command until the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th time. 

So he does what he wants until he gets to the command that he thinks is the one that "means it." 

I don't think there are "stubborn" dogs. And LOL, I have a headstrong dog that likes things his way. (There is a difference between stubborn and headstrong. Stubborn means he refuses to do what you want. Headstrong means he's going to make you earn his performance). 

We often inadvertently train our dogs to do other things. 

--Repeating commands.The dog learns to tune us out until the owner raises his voice. This is probably the most common error I see. 
--Giving a command when the dog is doing exactly what we DON'T want him to do -- so the puppy that is running away is told "come," teaching him that "come" means run away. Or a pup that is jumping up is told "off," so "off" means "paws on my owner's legs." So the command is taught wrong to begin with.
--Giving what is essentially a correction when giving a command is another error I see, so a pup is being yanked into a "sit" or "right here" command, making "sit" and "right here" unpleasant and something to avoid. (Corrections, if used, should be given on the word "no" or similar, not on the command). 
--Being inconsistent, so a dog (especially a pup) is allowed to pull or jump or whatever some of the time, but not other times. (When a puppy meets a stranger and he jumps up, do you tell the stranger to not allow this behavior, to stand up and turn away? Every time?) This confuses the dog, and then, not being able to figure out what the heck you want, he just tunes out. 
--Motivators. It kills me to watch owners who stand straight up in class, and say in monotone, "Fido. Come." And they wonder why their dog doesn't come in them in class, much less at the park. They've taught their dog that they aren't interesting. The owner that whoops it up, calls their dog happily, skips forward and when the dog runs to them, leans over so the dog runs into his arms, that dog has learned that running to her owner is the best thing on earth. 

Our dogs learn what we teach them. Yes, they can be distracted. But we have to look at the dog in front of us, learn what motivates THIS dog (not the other dogs in our pack or dogs we've had before us, or what Patricia McConnell or Cesar Milan say motivates dogs. What motivates THIS dog? (And this can change as your dog ages.) And then we work with that. It may not be toys OR snacks, but the thrill of running beside you, or a tummy rub, or carrying (as opposed to chasing) his frisbee. Figure out what motivates your dog and you're halfway there. 

I think if we could put together a focus group of dogs and asked them what they wanted, they'd say, consistency. Even temper. (DON'T get mad at us. We're trying. And don't take what we're doing personally. We're dogs. Dogs aren't spiteful. We're just dogs). And make it fun. Please. Even in the best of our lives, we just kind of hang out a lot. The more fun we can have, the better. 

If we did this, our dogs would pay more attention to us. They don't really watch much T.V. So, we're their entertainment. We just have to make ourselves interesting enough to pay attention to.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

So many geniuses like Tyson!!! But hey.... we have smart dogs!!!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:
> --Repeating commands.The dog learns to tune us out until the owner raises his voice. This is probably the most common error I see.


Oh that drives me batty... "sit..... sit...sit...sit..sitsitsitSit Sit SIT SIT SIIIT!!!! (Dog finally sinks into position) GOOOD BOYYEEEEE!" 

The command is NOT "sitsitSitSITSIIIIT," it is "Sit."


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

Who's dogs test them? Just curious.... 

My dog Foster, all over my website would test you in a heartbeat. As a matter of fact, there are only a few trainers that can work him. He just messes with people. (I know it's hard to believe, seeing that cute face) 

But on the other hand. DUKE, my dog who died 3 years ago (all over my site too), from all the commercials.. NISSAN, BUDWESIER. POLAROID...was the most honest dog. He would never test me and would work for a 3 year old. 

It's funny how different dogs can be...


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

My Zeus does all the time. I don't think we have a strong bond like I do with Apollo, so I have currently been working very hard to bond with him. I've seen some improvement in about 2 weeks that I have been trying hard. It'll take time, but we're getting there.

My Apollo loves to please. He will do whatever I ask him if it's something he knows. He is always willing to learn, and we have such a strong bond. I like to think it's because we went through similar illnesses with out immune systems and he knows I am ill. 

I didn't really have to work hard bonding with Apollo, it just sorta happened. Zeus is my work in progress.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

That bond is everything!!!!


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

I wholeheartedly agree! I took a look at your site, it's full of wonderful info!


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

Thank you every much. I really appreciate that!


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JoelSilvermanWho's dogs test them? Just curious....










mine does.

hes a good boy tho but just acts like a "punk" teenager sometimes...


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

You will see this correction method on my website and my book that is coming out this spring, called "What Color is Your Dog?". Actually in the book there is a whole chapter on this. 

The reason I created it was that I wanted to make correcting of the dog easier for the new pet owner to understand, and also because the correction for TESTING and the correction for CONFUSION are as different as night and day. 

I teach owners that when the animal is CONFUSED, you make it easier for the dog and regress.

I teach owners that when the animal is TESTING you, since he knows what he is doing, you make him repeat the behavior.


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## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: JoelSilverman
> The reason I created it was that I wanted to make correcting of the dog easier for the new pet owner to understand, and also because the correction for TESTING and the correction for CONFUSION are as different as night and day.
> 
> I teach owners that when the animal is CONFUSED, you make it easier for the dog and regress.
> ...


Oh. My. Lord. Could you please beat my BF over the head with that statement? It drives me crazy when BF corrects Dieter by just going "tsst" or saying "No!". That's cool and all to correct the dog for not complying to a command he already knows that's being clearly given, but DO NOT just tell him NO and expect him to know the behavior you want.

For example - when we are out walking and D starts pulling, I do things like stopping/turning abruptly or telling him "Eh! No pull" then, when he stops the unwanted behavior, I immediately request a behavior I know he knows like sit or wait. I mark the positive behavior and we continue on our way. BF will say NO then won't give any sort of follow up command to tell D what he wants him to do instead. I can tell the poor dog is confused so he starts offering up random behaviors to see if that's what we want.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

You are funny....!!! and so right on!!!


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

Just to add my two cents, I see a huge area of "doing a behaviour wrong" in the lack of proofing the dog under distraction. Many people I know work on the basic behaviours at home, where there are minimal distractions. I like to encourage people to get out and about with there behaviours and pactice them everywhere. Especially the recall. I see SAR handlers allow their dogs to not recall instantly when out at training....huge pet peeve of mine!!! Teaching recall and the "halt" command under any distraction can and will save a dogs life. Had a friend of mine loose a wonderful dog because of lack of recall proofing, he took of after a deer, failed to recall and ran out into the street being hit and killed by a car instantly. If your dogs butt doesn't it the floor instantly its frustrating, if the recall is not absolute it can be deadly. All my pups learn to absolutely 100% recall under distraction before we move on to any off leash work, anywhere.


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## JoelSilverman (Oct 16, 2008)

True... and proofing with distractions classifies as "confusion". For example, even though your GSD knew how to sit from 20 feet away for a minute yesterday, once you bring a squirrel into the equation today, it changes what you are requiring of your dog.

And also the correction yesterday would probably have been to make the dog repeat the behavior a few times because it was proofed. (TESTING)

But because there was a new part of the behavior that was added (the squirrel) to what you were asking of your dog, you are going to want to regress, and make it easier.
(CONFUSION)


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