# Appropriate reaction towards surprise delivery person at 8pm?



## cocobarksalot (Oct 28, 2021)

An hour ago I walked out of the front door into our fenced and gated yard with SO and 2 yo dog. There's a person there, holding a flashlight over his head (it's very dark in the yard). The four of us (delivery person, me, SO, dog) froze, dog took off barking as soon as I realized the guy's holding a box for us. Before I unfreeze, dog started circling, crouching, barking 4ft away from the person (SO and I are standing 10ft away). I called my dog, no response. I started walking toward the person trying to get dog, and dog moved closer to maybe 2ft away still barking, I started talking to the person in a normal friendly way and dog seemed to realize he's not a threat, stopped barking and started his usual rude greeting jumps and a couple high-pitched barks. I then called dog to me, got the box, and went back inside.

This happened an hour ago and I'm still tense. I feel like we were so close to getting a hard-working nice delivery guy into the hospital and us into legal troubles. The guy must have had some good training about what to do when encountering dogs - he just stood there without moving or speaking. All the delivery people know to leave packages at the gate but this is a frozen package so he wanted to ring the bell.

So my question is, other than putting a sign on the gate, what else should I do to make sure he never bites anyone? He's always been friendly with guests, he jumps on them and us but that's another problem to work on. Is his response to a stranger in our yard appropriate? SO thinks his response is perfectly appropriate because it's a stranger holding a flashlight in our yard at 8pm and both his humans were startled, and he stopped being aggressive when I started talking to the person. I think he's acting out of fear and might bite when overly fearful.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

What do you want your dog to do in that scenario? There is no right or wrong. Only what you want, and train for!

For an untrained dog, he did great I'd say. Threatened back until he saw that you were okay with it. But you have to train for stuff like this if you have expectations! Dogs are all different.


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## Biscuit (Mar 24, 2020)

I could be way off mark here but it sounds like an appropriate reaction to finding a stranger in your yard.

What level of obediance does your dog have? The best solution is to have your dog call off the threat when told to. It's not an easy task and will require lots of training, particularly impulse control. I would for now work on a bullet proof recall and an emergency down. 

By all means put a sign on your yard saying a loose dog is present. In my country a sign saying 'beware of the dog' is an admission of knowledge your dog is dangerous. Another option is to lock your gate if possible until you feel your dog has better control.

Your dog doesn't know the difference between a delivery person and an axe murderer.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

I also believe your dog acted appropriately. From your description, this doesn't sound like fear aggression to me, but I am not a trainer. I also agree to the advise on further training. Your dog should have a solid recall. I personally have used the emergency down in a similar instance and it is invaluable.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

Also, IMHO, the delivery person should have honked his horn to let you know a package had been delivered.


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## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

I would also agree that you all handled things as well as possible. The dog reacted defensively in an unusual situation until he saw that you were OK with the situation. The driver remained calm and did not react until you gave the 'all clear' signal to your dog by interacting calmly with him.

I like to practice these situations. I like to have someone ring the doorbell or knock on the door. Then I practice having Ole deescalate from his defensive barking to sitting by my side before I open the door. It is not exactly the situation you were in, but the key is to train until you can trust your dog to deescalate.

FWIW, I like to keep a couple of cans of Arizona Tea in the refrigerator for delivery drivers. More than once they have had to wait on the front porch for a signature while I put Ole in his crate.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Totally appropriate. You described a near perfect bark and hold.But the driver acted appropriately also. If he'd have taken off running there may have been a take down. Since he's a jumper, at the very least he could push someone down and scrape them up pretty badly.
As @davewis said,if possible set up some scenarios and train for the behavior you want.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

Personally, we will be training for the sit/stay or down/stay without putting him away prior to opening the door. I am a petite female and if alone, will want that "presence" by my side....just in case.

BTW - did anyone else have to google Arizona Tea? Yes, evidently I do live in a cave.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Arizona Tea🤮 Pure Leaf brand is nectar of the Gods


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## cocobarksalot (Oct 28, 2021)

Honestly I don't know what response I expected from him - he's a pet dog and what I want from him is to stay by my side and let me handle the situation. But he's an animal and we're both nerve bags, he has barrier frustration/aggression, and I'm scared of social situations 😂.

I'm actually way more startled by the event than my dog is, I was on edge the whole night and just had a terrible dream where he attacked my younger cat and SO refusing to take the cat to the vet (the dog has always been good with that cat and that cat loves the dog). The attack was kinda funny though, my older cat was holding one of those teasers with feather and bell for the younger one, the dog went for it and got the younger cat instead. I think I might have read too many stories about dogs who bite out of fear end up being put down 

I have two recall cues, "scatter" for food and "come" for his squeaky ball. So far his "come" is a bit more reliable than "scatter", although neither works when he's on an active skunk chase. I panicked at the moment and only used "scatter". The reason I think it is fear based aggression is because he blew off his food recall, meaning he's too scared to take his eyes off the subject? That's also the reason I've been holding off aversives in his barrier frustration/aggression training.

BTW does anyone have recommendations for a behaviorist in south SF Bay Area? He doesn't show human-directed barrier frustration in crowded settings but is suspicious of people in less populated areas like the neighborhood I just moved to, I haven't been able to walk him at all because knowing he might react I'd just hide and run back home when I see someone on the walk.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

Oskar did the same thing last week, he was 2 days shy of his 1st birthday. We had a group of guys out in the shop, which is quite a ways away from the house. I heard Oskar IFO the house barking his head off. I go to look, and there's one of the guys there, who'd walked up to the house to use the bathroom. Oskar was circling the guy, about a foot or two away from the guy, barking at him. The guy did a great job, he just stood there. I did screw up though. I should have put Oskar on a 'down', and then walked up to the guy and let Oskar know that the guy was okay. But I wasn't thinking, I just walked up to the guy, and encouraged Oskar to come over and meet him. 

But I was REALLY pleased about Oskar's reaction to a stranger walking up to the house.

PS: The Arizona Tea, "Green Tea", is THE BEST! The other Arizona Teas, Raspberry, etc....... are yucky 🤮


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Whether the response was appropriate depends on what you want. Blowing off commands is almost never good however. As far as “behaviorist,” not really sure what people mean when they say they are dog behaviorist. There are two trainers in Northern California that I really like. One is Joel Monroe. He has a reputation and resume that speaks for it’s self. The other is mike Jones at primal canine. I throughly enjoyed working with him. You’ll probably have to drive to get to either of them( ~1hr). They are both phenomenal however and I hold them in high regard.


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## cocobarksalot (Oct 28, 2021)

I guess what I meant by behaviorist instead of trainer I meant I want someone who would help me with modifying his behaviors (leash frustration/aggression), I'm not as interested in dog sports because I think he's not stable or confident enough for them.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Very appropriate response and what I'd want from my dogs except you haven't proofed the recall. And I wouldn't have my dog jumping up on anyone even when they are friendly but you acknowledged that. If there's someone in my yard in the dark, I want him to freeze for fear of being eaten  Recall let's him off the hook for the 99% chance that he's friendly/supposed to be there.

I live on a reasonably private property (300 foot driveway, farm gate, sgl land bridge onto driveway) so unauthorized night time visitors are rare


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

Here's one that's in San Mateo: https://www.smdtc.com/classes/ 
I prefer AKC Dog Training Clubs, for basic obedience. They teach you to teach your dog, the classes are group. 

It's been awhile, but whenever I trained a dog in the past, I ALWAYS went to an AKC dog training clubs classes.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

cocobarksalot said:


> I guess what I meant by behaviorist instead of trainer I meant I want someone who would help me with modifying his behaviors (leash frustration/aggression), I'm not as interested in dog sports because I think he's not stable or confident enough for them.


I’ll leave that conversation alone. I’ll just all trainers can work on those things. The two I named are more than capable of helping you.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

A stranger on your property at night and your dog goes nuts?

Good dog!!!


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## cocobarksalot (Oct 28, 2021)

@Bearshandler I've grown suspicious of any trainer who offer board and train programs. I have this feeling that any trainer who promises behavior change in a short couple weeks would be using too much compulsion, it'll probably show results but I don't feel very comfortable with that.

Turned out I'm actually in the central coast area. Somehow Santa Cruz becomes part of South Bay in my mind just because it's south of the bay XD. Any recommendations within an hour of the Santa Cruz or Los Gatos area are welcome, I don't feel comfortable with ones who use compulsion but I want to know all my options!


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## cocobarksalot (Oct 28, 2021)

Buckelke said:


> A stranger on your property at night and your dog goes nuts?
> 
> Good dog!!!


😂 My SO made sure to tell him what a good boy he is after we all went back inside. I on the other hand wish my dog could read "FedEx" on the guy's shirt and take the package inside instead, and then open the fridge to bring the guy some beverage 🤣


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

cocobarksalot said:


> @Bearshandler I've grown suspicious of any trainer who offer board and train programs. I have this feeling that any trainer who promises behavior change in a short couple weeks would be using too much compulsion, it'll probably show results but I don't feel very comfortable with that.
> 
> Turned out I'm actually in the central coast area. Somehow Santa Cruz becomes part of South Bay in my mind just because it's south of the bay XD. Any recommendations within an hour of the Santa Cruz or Los Gatos area are welcome, I don't feel comfortable with ones who use compulsion but I want to know all my options!


Here ya go: https://www.montereybaydog.org/


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

It feels like the appropriate response from a pet GSD to me. Maybe not exactly what I'd look for in a Golden Retriever, but...


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

cocobarksalot said:


> 😂 My SO made sure to tell him what a good boy he is after we all went back inside. I on the other hand wish my dog could read "FedEx" on the guy's shirt and take the package inside instead, and then open the fridge to bring the guy some beverage 🤣


Nope. You don't need OVER friendliness even to non threats imo. If you do, you own the wrong breed as per the breed standard (aloof, neutral to non pack members).When the FEDEX guy arrives here, my dogs sound the alarm/alert the house, I tell them good dog, that's enough and they back off and continue to just watch neutrally.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

cocobarksalot said:


> @Bearshandler I've grown suspicious of any trainer who offer board and train programs. I have this feeling that any trainer who promises behavior change in a short couple weeks would be using too much compulsion, it'll probably show results but I don't feel very comfortable with that.
> 
> Turned out I'm actually in the central coast area. Somehow Santa Cruz becomes part of South Bay in my mind just because it's south of the bay XD. Any recommendations within an hour of the Santa Cruz or Los Gatos area are welcome, I don't feel comfortable with ones who use compulsion but I want to know all my options!


Primal canine is in Gilroy. Almost every trainer offers board and trains. The best thing for you and your dog will depend on the situation and what you want done in that time frame. I think any trainer should be honest about what they can accomplish at a board and train in what time frame. I think you’d be better off meeting a trainer and seeing them work. Going in with an open mind. Mike is a great trainer. I think Joel is farther out. Those are the two trainers I would use. You can check out the primal canine website.








Bay Area Dog Training Primal Canine


bay area dog training specializing in formal obedience training tailored to your dogs individual temperament. No matter what type of dog, age, size, temperament or behavioral issues we can help.




www.primalcanine.com


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

SMcN said:


> Personally, we will be training for the sit/stay or down/stay without putting him away prior to opening the door. I am a petite female and if alone, will want that "presence" by my side....just in case.
> 
> BTW - did anyone else have to google Arizona Tea? Yes, evidently I do live in a cave.


Gus grabbed a man who was trying to get into my house in broad daylight. Now he has some training with bite work so my only concern was him making the decision and not me. He did “out” immediately and promptly sat in front of me very ready to go again if the guy made the wrong move. The 2 men fled, left me 2 brand new snow shovels. I immediately went into the house and called my trainer as I was worried the police would be at my door shortly. They never came phew!
I put Gus on a leash when answering door for awhile just to make sure I had control of him at all times, it’s easy to drop the leash if there is an intruder. I suggest leashing at the door until you know the dog is solid with commands.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

It's completely irresponsible that delivery services put their employees in danger by requiring delivering after dark. I am sure people will get shot or bitten at some point.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

__





Alert K9 | Training People One Dog At A Time







www.alertk-9.com


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

My friend has her doorbell bell installed on the outside of her front gate, leading into her courtyard. It was installed by the previous property owners. If you like that idea, add a discreet sign, 'Please ring for deliveries' .


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## cocobarksalot (Oct 28, 2021)

@Dunkirk I'm actually in the process of installing a gate opener and a video doorbell there. Out of all the outlets in my place the one right by the gate is the one that doesn't work!!

I printed out a "Dog on Premises" sign today to tape to the gate before I get everything installed. Hopefully that'll somewhat protect us legally if something actually happens.

@Saphire Your dog did great! I'm confused, were they trying to break into your house with snow shovels??


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

cocobarksalot said:


> @Dunkirk I'm actually in the process of installing a gate opener and a video doorbell there. Out of all the outlets in my place the one right by the gate is the one that doesn't work!!
> 
> I printed out a "Dog on Premises" sign today to tape to the gate before I get everything installed. Hopefully that'll somewhat protect us legally if something actually happens.
> 
> @Saphire Your dog did great! I'm confused, were they trying to break into your house with snow shovels??


They were using the shovels as a ruse going door to door to shovel driveways. I saw them at the end of my driveway and when they got to the door I chose to just ignore them. After a few minutes I heard them playing with the door knob and trying to open the door which was locked. I was angry and in my fuzzy onesie when I swung the door open and started yelling at them. No doubt Gus was feeding off of my anger.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Saphire said:


> They were using the shovels as a ruse going door to door to shovel driveways. I saw them at the end of my driveway and when they got to the door I chose to just ignore them. After a few minutes I heard them playing with the door knob and trying to open the door which was locked. I was angry and in my fuzzy onesie when I swung the door open and started yelling at them. No doubt Gus was feeding off of my anger.


Good boy Gus! I mean, I agree with keeping him leashed for a bit while answering the door after that to sort of alter that perception in him. But, good boy! 

Nice of them to gift you their shovels too LOL! I'll bet it'll be awhile before they try that again!


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## goodmandog (Feb 25, 2020)

My GSD (2 yo) has a sore spot for in-fence chasing of FedEx, UPS, Amazon trucks. Trying to get her to stop has been one of the hardest aspects of our training... we've progressed and I have to say her recall response is about 75% (95% for other situations) after she gives her DNA-driven two or three warning barks. Appropriate e-collar work has helped, but I don't want to be dependent on this tool.

Any additional tips would be appreciated. 

So the humorous part relating to @cocobarksalot is that she CAN read the trucks and logos. When she sees an Amazon truck when we're out and about she reacts (not cool). One day we drove into a gas station that is used as a fueling hub for Amazon trucks. There were five gassing up. Never has she seen so many in one place. She saw, stopped, froze, and looked at me with razor focus seeming to say "I'm ready, I'm ready, even if we have to take them all on. We got this. I am not afraid. I'm ready." and then kept eyes on me waiting for a command. It was impressive.

Has anybody ever taken their GSD to an Amazon depot center to train her in / around the trucks in the parking lot?




cocobarksalot said:


> 😂 My SO made sure to tell him what a good boy he is after we all went back inside. I on the other hand wish my dog could read "FedEx" on the guy's shirt and take the package inside instead, and then open the fridge to bring the guy some beverage 🤣


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## Clipper (May 7, 2021)

cocobarksalot said:


> @Bearshandler I've grown suspicious of any trainer who offer board and train programs. I have this feeling that any trainer who promises behavior change in a short couple weeks would be using too much compulsion, it'll probably show results but I don't feel very comfortable with that.
> 
> Turned out I'm actually in the central coast area. Somehow Santa Cruz becomes part of South Bay in my mind just because it's south of the bay XD. Any recommendations within an hour of the Santa Cruz or Los Gatos area are welcome, I don't feel comfortable with ones who use compulsion but I want to know all my options!


The best trainer my rescue group used did board and train on occasion. I would not dismiss a trainer solely on that issue. He cured a dog with severe separation anxiety. I observed the session, and it was fine. Two of my own dogs worked with him. One had major aggression issues that two other experienced trainers could not solve. After 8 sessions (all of which I participated in), my pup was able to go out in public without incident.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

goodmandog said:


> My GSD (2 yo) has a sore spot for in-fence chasing of FedEx, UPS, Amazon trucks. Trying to get her to stop has been one of the hardest aspects of our training... we've progressed and I have to say her recall response is about 75% (95% for other situations) after she gives her DNA-driven two or three warning barks. Appropriate e-collar work has helped, but I don't want to be dependent on this tool.
> 
> Any additional tips would be appreciated.
> 
> ...


Love the description 

I train with delivery drivers, mail carriers, EMTs, cops, firefighters... I get dogs up in the trucks, around them when they are making deliveries, around the trucks with lights and sirens... All fun play type stuff with OB mixed in.

I set up training with EMTs so Valor will hold a down while they work on me.


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## cocobarksalot (Oct 28, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> Primal canine is in Gilroy. Almost every trainer offers board and trains. The best thing for you and your dog will depend on the situation and what you want done in that time frame. I think any trainer should be honest about what they can accomplish at a board and train in what time frame. I think you’d be better off meeting a trainer and seeing them work. Going in with an open mind. Mike is a great trainer. I think Joel is farther out. Those are the two trainers I would use. You can check out the primal canine website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I finally contacted them today because my SO keeps wanting to take the dog for hikes and urban outings, and I feel terrible to restrict that because I still haven't fixed his reactivity after almost a year. Thanks for recommending them, they sound like knowledgeable trainers from the phone call.

About board and train, what I don't like is that they sometimes "guarantee" that they'll be able to fix your dog's behavioral problems, which I just don't think is realistic.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

cocobarksalot said:


> I finally contacted them today because my SO keeps wanting to take the dog for hikes and urban outings, and I feel terrible to restrict that because I still haven't fixed his reactivity after almost a year. Thanks for recommending them, they sound like knowledgeable trainers from the phone call.
> 
> About board and train, what I don't like is that they sometimes "guarantee" that they'll be able to fix your dog's behavioral problems, which I just don't think is realistic.


I wouldn’t make any guarantees, especially before I met the dog. Mike is a very good trainer though.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

cocobarksalot said:


> About board and train, what I don't like is that they sometimes "guarantee" that they'll be able to fix your dog's behavioral problems, which I just don't think is realistic.


interesting conclusion. this would make me more interested in hearing about the guarantee rather than turn me off. a family member sent her dog to a 6 week board n train…. dog wasn’t “fixed” so they kept him an additional 2 weeks as well as extended the amount of individual follow up sessions once he returned home - all at no extra cost (i assume that’s where the guarantee fits). they did their part, she did hers and the dog was great for the remainder of his life.


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