# A must read for anyone considering going with a "cheap" puppy...



## Lady Lulu (Sep 6, 2011)

I'm not suggesting all cheap or free dogs are bad and I'm not suggesting that all expensive dogs will be free of health problems. In fact, I have always grown up under the belief that a dog is a dog and that any dog has the potential to be a good companion, if it's worked with and trained well. But here recently something has happened that I feel like I need to share with other people to help keep them from ending up in a situation like I found myself in....

I live out in the middle of nowhere in Kentucky. I'm surrounded by farms a river or two and even bigger farms. Most of my past few dogs have all been farm pups of some kind. I even once paid a whopping $150 for a border collie pup, from a litter that a farmer had bred because he needed more working dogs to help work his cattle. Having dogs without champion lines was never a big deal to me. There are thousands of good dogs, some of which are purebred, some of which aren't, in shelters all across the country. What's important though, is not supporting a backyard breeder.

This past fall, my family brought our baby Lady Lulu home from a breeder here in Western Kentucky. I won't mention names, because I'm not sure if it would be considered inappropriate or a service to other dog owners... (you guys can decide after reading my pup's story). Anyway, I stumbled across this breeder's information on a forum or website somewhere last summer. A little iffy about buying from a bigger breeder, I grilled her. I asked about where her dogs came from, how old they were, how old they were when they first bred. I was even asking questions about how long she'd been breeding and about how the pups were trained and worked with after they were born. I made the mistake of believing everything the woman said. 

But why wouldn't I? She didn't appear to be lying or hiding anything. I was invited out to her farm to see her dogs. They had a lot of property to roam and all but one of them were very sociable and friendly. She talked about how great her dogs' temperments were and how one of her dogs was imported and the main breeding male had had his hips checked and she'd done some kind of dna thing on him.... 

It all should've went in one ear and out the other. My problem was, my pup's father dog was so friendly, and the mother just absolutely melted my heart. I fell in love with the mother dog and decided to just take the woman on her word. It wan't a huge deal to me. I'd had many dogs over the years and, for the most part, they'd all been relatively healthy. So I paid her $450 to hold a pup for me. 

A few weeks later, I started second guessing myself after reading some of the things on the forums here. But since my money was non-refundable, I figured the best thing I could do was keep an eye on my breeder to see how truthful she'd been and then hope for the best. I friended her on Facebook and even stumbled across a website that she advertised her dogs on. Despite her talking as if she kept her dogs like pets and members of the family, her website painted much different pictures. With the exception of three of her dogs, she was pushing to sell all of her other animals. Some she'd been using for breeding for years and were getting older but would still produce a few more good litters, others were left over pups she could never sell and she'd just let them roam the property. My favorite was a male she called "Jasper" that was for sale on her website as a beautiful male with a great temperment, yet she'd revealed (away from the website) that he was very stubborn, bullish, and that he wouldn't listen and constantly kept her on her feet. Through her website I learned of dogs she'd gotten rid of because they were fighting and she couldn't stop it, and that the "bad dog" was gone now. 

In case you didn't know, you can learn A LOT about someone from their Facebook account. The amount of information she revealed about her attitudes toward her dogs and her constant attempts to have puppies on the way at all times surprised me. No sooner than she'd sell one dog, she'd buy another adult from someone else and as soon as they'd go into heat she'd try to breed them. 

Despite telling me her pups didn't leave her house before 8 weeks, when my baby Lulu was only 5 weeks old she was already trying to make arrangements for me to come get her. At 6 weeks I'd had enough and decided I needed to get her away from the breeder because the woman was a total liar. She was quickly proving that nearly everything she told me was a lie through her Facebook posts to her friends and family. 

She was keeping the pups separated from the mother and the other dogs and I didn't see any benefit to the pups staying together unsupervised. When I went to get my pup, I did get my pick of the females because that's what I'd reserved, there was a pup there that had had to be taken to the vet for a broken tail. I was upset about the situation and feeling like a bad dog owner for contributing to the business of a backyard breeder. I picked the most laid back of the females and I left as quickly as she could sign the papers over to me. 

Then I brought home my Lady Lulu. In my girl's defense, Lady is an amazing dog. She is a very intelligent, very alert, very friendly german shepherd. Training her took next to no effort, when she has done something wrong she looks so guilty and repentant that she tells on herself. For a six month old puppy she is very gentle with my 3 and 4 year old children and my cats. 

Despite all of Lady's great personality traits, when she was four and a half months old I noticed she had a limp. It went away so I dismissed it. By the time she was 5 months old it was back with a vengeance. I couldn't take her out to play with other dogs, I couldn't let her run in the yard. Anytime she exerted herself she started limping very badly. We took her to the vet about two weeks ago. The X-Rays revealed she had an ununited anconeal process. For those of you lucky enough to have dogs with good sound joints, that means that the anconeal process (a little bone in the elbow), didn't fuse to the main bone like it should've during her development. My lovely Lady had elbow dysplasia. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, I was told she also had mild hip dysplasia on the left side as well. 

I cried over it. Growing up my parents had had a shepherd with hip dysplasia but my family was too poor to afford to fix both of her hips. All we could do was pain management and it was heartbreaking. There were days when that dog couldn't hardly get up to walk and I was immediately afraid that that would be Lady's fate as well. Immediately my mind went to the big what-if's. If we couldn't afford surgery would I be willing to put her down if her surgery was too expensive.... you know,things like that. Her limp was bad. I don't know how to explain it anymore than it was just.... really bad for a pup as young as she was. 

Out of fear of being blamed for the condition, (I did trip over Lady when she was a puppy), I didn't tell the breeder. I waited til we spoke with the specialist. We were told that for between $1600 and $1800 they could remove the anconeal process in her elbow, ( a little dime sized fragment), that didn't fuse to the rest of the bone and greatly improve her quality of life. My husband and I are not rich but we could afford that. Rather than paying off the car, (what we were saving the money for), Lady went into surgery this past Monday. The total cost of the surgery ended up being $1754.00. Lady is now resting very comfortably at home now, but she cannot run, jump, play or wrestle around for six weeks. 

I hate keeping her penned up in a crate but every time I let her out and watch her walk outside, I remind myself it was worth it. The surgeon warned us that her limp would be worse for the first week or two because of the pain she'd be in. He was wrong. Lady Lulu hasn't walked this well since before she started limping at 4 months. Her limp is barely even noticeable. I know some of that may be the pain pills but I'm trying to have a little hope I might've made a difference in her quality of life. 

Since she's been home, I have attempted to talk to the breeder. I didn't want any monetary reimbursements, I didn't want a replacement puppy or any of that nonsense. I wanted to warn her that one of her pups had had not only an elbow problem but also a mild hip problem. This is where the story gets embarrassing. You see, I'm used to getting country pups from country people. It's no big deal. But this breeder talked so much stuff, that in the beginning she had me fooled. But even her little lies weren't anywhere near as embarrassing as her reaction to my warning about Lady's joint problems. This is a little hard to type because I actually feel embarrassed and really ashamed to even know this woman let alone to be telling everyone on this forum that I did business with her.

Her first response to my news was that her dogs "didn't have hip problems" and then she added that they didn't have "joint problems." She then accused me of letting my dog go up and down stairs too much and then accused me of letting her jump around too much in the back yard. I wasn't really sure how to react at first. German Shepherds are police and military dogs, they're herding and agility dogs....these dogs are some of the coolest most capable dogs around and I'm being lectured in an "i told you so" fashion for letting my dog climb up my porch steps too many times... 

I was angry but I kept my cool. I tried to tell her I wasn't looking to get anything, I just wanted to warn her because she'd raised the price of her pups in her upcoming litter to $900 each. (Yet another lie. She lied about not breeding her dogs EVERY cycle.) After I was basically told that it wasn't my business, she then told me that I had no health guarantee from her for my girl and that while she regretted the puppy had problems it was not because of her dog's genetics. Just because we were talking, I told her that my vet and my specialist both said it was genetic and then I told her the $1800 price tag for the surgery. 

She responded by telling me that I was at fault for discovering Lady's problem. She told me that I never should've allowed the vet to "twist Lady's joints to take x-rays because that damaged them" and that " i shouldn't pay that much for a surgery that won't do much for her anyway because the specialist and the vet are just trying to get more money out of me." She then dug deep into that backward country logic of hers, ( i come from the country i can use that insult), and told me to ignore my vet, ignore the x-rays, go buy Lady some vitamins and in a month or so she'll be walking around like nothing had ever happened. 

I was absolutely stunned. Never, did I expect her to respond that way to me. A simple "I'm sorry thanks for the information" would've been fine, but instead she was angry at me for telling her about Lady's problems. I guess now she can't honestly tell people she doesn't know of any of her pups having problems, but considering she lied to me about everything else, I don't think she'll have a problem lying to the next person.

After her last response, in which she was basically mad at me for taking my dog to the vet for X-Rays, (always a red flag coming from a breeder), I might've responded to her a little inappropriately. In my defense I'd kept my cool the entire time leading up to this. But the conversation ended with me telling her how crazy and ignorant she was, I accused her of breeding unhealthy dogs and then hiding the pups that show problems by pretending the problems aren't genetically linked to the parents. I also might've called her offensive for suggesting something as simple as a vitamin could do the work of a surgeon and then I might've told her that it was really a Godsend for my Lady Lulu that she ended up with me because clearly she'd be better taken care of here. Since that little conversation, I have not only blocked her on Facebook but routed any and all of her emails to go directly to my trashcan. I no longer need to have any kind of contact with that breeder and I don't wish to hear about all the other ways I might've caused Lady's joint problems.

I've always looked at myself as a caretaker to animals. Cats, dogs, fish, little critters... I've had them all, I have a small zoo. But when my animals are sick, they get taken care of. When they're hurt, they get taken care of. I have never in my life been in this kind of situation for just trying to do a good deed and warn someone. I don't regret getting Lady and I don't care if she's never going to walk quite right. I don't even care that my car isn't going to paid off for another six months. I ended up with her because I was meant to end up with her. What bothers me though, is thinking about how differently this entire situation could've been if I'd dealt with an even somewhat responsible breeder. 

I know quality dogs are expensive for people with lower incomes, (like my family). I know the really good quality dogs are even more expensive... But take my word for it, if you have to have a purebred, it is much better to wait another few months or year to save up the money and get a good, healthy pup from a mature, responsible breeder. Like I said, up until this, all my dogs started out as just farm pups or rescues. Until you've seen just how ....bad some backyard breeders can be, I don't think you really understand what it is people on these forums are trying to warn you about. While I wouldn't trade Lady for anything, I also don't wish her problems on any dog, or my troubles with her breeder on any dog owner. When you buy a puppy from a breeder, you should be able to go back to that breeder with any questions or concerns without feeling shamed or guilted, or in my case, attacked for trying to take care of the dog. 

So for those of you not doing the math while reading along, emotional toll aside, my "cheap" $450 puppy has cost me $2204.00, not including routine exams and shots. So far both my vet and the specialist are saying her hip problem is mild enough she may never end up in pain, but if she does, I estimate that'll be at least another $1800.00 if not more when she's older. A "hip replacement" sounds a lot more expensive than an "excision of the anconeal process." 

I'm sorry this post was so long, I just wanted to share my pup's story as a precautionary tale to other people looking for puppies but considering going a cheaper route. Also, I know I made a lot of mistakes getting my dog so please don't point everything out for me. I've paid for it, I'm still paying for it, and my poor Lady is paying for it too. The only consolation I have is the peace of mind that Lady is with me and not being forced to pop vitamins for the rest of her life while she hobbles around on a lame leg.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry youre having to go through this, but good for you for standing by your puppy. Yesterday, I saw a post on craigslist looking for a purebred husky with papers, and the girl stated "dont try to sell me a puppy for $1000 or something because there are plenty of AKC huskies being sold for $300 or less!". It took everything in me not to email her about her ignorance.

I wish more people understood that breeders that care about their dogs DESERVE to sell their dogs for their prices.


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## Lady Lulu (Sep 6, 2011)

I really wish no one would have to go through what I've gone through. Not only with the breeder but with their dogs as well. There is a real helpless feeling that you get when you first hear something is wrong with your dog. I want to say there's a difference between a rescue/adopted pup from a shelter that ends up with problems and a purebred, but really, there isn't. Either way, they're dogs that need help. I guess there's just a feeling of being swindled or mislead when you pay for a purebred and it has problems. This is not a mistake I will ever make again. I'm not guaranteeing my next pup won't have health problems... but my next breeder will be responsible and reputable, and I will make certain of it before I ever bring the next dog home.

And I see ads all the time on craigslist from people "looking for" dogs and half the time they have spending limits of what they're willing to give. It bothers me. It bothers me anytime anyone posts ads like that because I can't help but wonder, if you aren't willing to look for the dog yourself, how much will you really take care of it?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Thank you also for sharing your story and I to, am sorry you've gone thru this.

I hope with your story, some will gain awareness from your situation.

But in the end, it sounds like Lady has a GREAT home, is lucky to have you and will never have to worry about a harsh life. 

Please keep us updated on Lady's progress!


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

I am SOO sorry you are going through this. I know how it goes with back yard breeders. I've actually met quite a few. I never hesitate to point out exactly what they are and what they are doing wrong. 

There is one that I watch specifically that breeds dogs every cycle and people post on her facebook about how phenomenal her dogs are....

It makes me sick thinking about it. I've spent FARRR more money on my back yard bred dog than I have on my quality "expensive" dogs that I paid a lot more up front for. I wish you the best of luck to Lulu and thank you for giving her a wonderful home and a chance at a second life.


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## Geeheim (Jun 18, 2011)

Thank you for sharing your story. It's really heartbreaking. I wish you nothing but the best in the future.

I think it's really hard for people who haven't gotten burned to understand. I know I've told so many people that are looking for a cheap Shepherd to wait, save their money and buy a quality pup from a reputable breeder. But, 9 times out of 10 it just goes in one ear and out the other.


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

sorry to hear about lady's surgery, had to get my mini doxie's back fixed that was 1500.00, 10 years ago, so i understand. glad she has you as an owner, most people couldnt afford the surgery, especially in today's econemy.good luck to you and lady.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Have you thought about posting your story on Craigs List? Not posting the person's name but maybe the general area .... that may make at least one person stop and think when they are looking at the CL ads.


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## Lady Lulu (Sep 6, 2011)

I wanted to thank everyone for their kind comments. Lady is doing well so far. In two weeks we get to take her back to Louisville so the specialist can check out her progress. She absolutely loves riding in the car so I'm sure she'll enjoy the six hour round trip to get there and home. lol 

I opted to just tell my story to everyone that wanted to ask me about Lady. Up until she started limping badly, I was really stressing her socialization by taking her on walks all around the community and introducing her to everyone I possibly could. With her surgery, she obviously won't be accompanying me on any of my walks, so when people question where she is, I tell them. Word of mouth goes really far in places like this. I may not be detering people online, but the people I've told this story to on Facebook and in my community were definitely fired up over it. I just wanted to share what happened on a forum like this because I know a lot of people wouldn't be able to afford this kind of surgery, especially with the recession and the unemployment as high as it is.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I too am sorry for what you are going through.

I fully support your comments about not going to what amounts to a back yard breeder.

The only wrinkle I'll toss in is that there are guarantees even when you do go to a reputable breeder.

My dog has an excellent pedigree and was recently diagnosed with mild HD. As I've delved into this topic I've found other people with dogs that genetically should have been very safe, but have been diagnosed with HD/ED.

There's some discussion as to the role genetics play in ED and HD....because dogs with no HD going back at least 5 generations in their pedigrees are getting HD.

Again, I just point this out so people are aware of the signs of HD/ED even if their dog comes from a really good breeder. 

Also to the OP, there are some very good threads about supportive therapy and supplements, which have clinical evidence backing them which help reduce pain and aid in the healing of the joint/cartilage. Often without the side effects of prescription NSAIDs.

I'll link them below in case you haven't seen them.

Best to you and your Lady Lulu.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

The thread I started: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ip-dysplasia-arthitis-ortho-support-info.html

And another helpful recent thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/genetic-issues/175609-infamous-hip-dysplasia.html


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

It is heartbreaking what you and your girl are going thru. I know you must be so frightened and frustrated.

I don't want this to sound like I'm scolding you, it is meant to be a suggestion to others buying from a puppy mill or as some generously call them back yard breeders. 

Why do we try to protect these puppy mills by saying we don't want to reveal the name. IMHO, we should be flying banners and broadcasting the names, addresses and phone numbers of these disgusting breeders to help others avoid going thru the same thing. Every single person who knows about this puppy mill and avoids buying a dog from them is creating $450 less incentive this breeder will have to breed more dogs. I wish every one who has a terrible experience with any breeder who doesn't make it right, would post the details including name and address. Again, why protect them? Do we want other people to go thru these experiences?

Of course you know that buying a $5000 dog would have gotten you a health guarantee, it would not completely guarantee that you would never have problems or heartache. 

I would like to see people who don't want a $5000 dog to consider a rescue dog. That way no puppy mill will profit from the suffering of any dog. Tell the rescue you want xrays as a condition of adoption.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> Why do we try to protect these puppy mills by saying we don't want to reveal the name. IMHO, we should be flying banners and broadcasting the names, addresses and phone numbers of these disgusting breeders to help others avoid going thru the same thing.


Negative comments about breeders and breeder bashing is against board rules. Some reasons for that is to avoid the liability of a law-suit (somehow, the breeders always find those threads like the one of the OP if the name is mentioned, and start threatening a law-suit), and another reason is to make sure that a good breeder's reputation is not destroyed by one individual with an agenda (which I know is not the case here).

The OP did the right thing to not mention any names, and refering to a general geographical area like she did is fine. People can PM the OP for more information if they so wish, but a reminder to keep the name and the specifics off the board.


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## jhoop371 (Dec 28, 2011)

Lady LuLu, 

I can totally feel for you, Your story is a mirror of what we just went thru for the past 8 years. We purchased a pup from basicly a byb with a great website..guarantees blah blah blah. At 4 months old Bella needed help getting up. dx...severe hd. so at 4 months she went thru her first triple pelvic osteotomy, then 3 weeks later she had her second one done. All for a whopping $3400. She did heal great after being crated for 2 months and restricted activity after that. She was able to run around for 8 years, sometimes going overboard and then sore for a few days. She always was in great spirits however! Best temperament. She was never really a puppy/dog, had to always "baby" her in fear of hurting her hips. So no long walks,runs,agility ever. We also contacted the breeder and they said, thank you for letting us know. That was the only response we got from them, but by now we loved this girl and did what we could to make her as whole as possible. So the cost of her $400 plus $3400 surgery, then cataract surgery at age 2 $400 for a total of $4200 by the age of 2 is way more than going thru a real reputable breeder and paying more up front for a "quality" pup. We learned our lesson. After Bella died from cancer in Sept. I spent hours and hours researching for our new pup, and found a great breeder and a perfect pup. The entire family is overly protected of him in everyway because we are still in the mindset of being afraid of him getting hurt...poor boy lol. I believe we were meant to have Bella so that we can help educate others of the effects of byb. Any time I can rant to friends, family etc about our experiece.. I do. I would never want anyone to go thru what our family did.I applaud you and your family for what you have done and will do for Lady for the rest of her life, she is loved and will love you back unconditionally. You are both very lucky to have one another.


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## jhoop371 (Dec 28, 2011)

I wanted to clarify that there is never any guarantee against any health issues, but the odds are in our favor when we do go with a reputable breeder.


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear the story of your puppy. How heartbreaking for you. But it sounds like Lady has a wonderful home with you and your family. 

I bought my first GSD from a byb. I have to admit...I didn't know better but she was the best dog I could have gotten and I was very lucky...she was healthy for the majority of her life but did end up with DM later.

I bought my second GSD from a reputable breeder. Or so I thought. I realized after I bought her and brought her home that I had just bought a dog from a higher grade byb. And I paid a heck of a lot more money for her than I did for my first GSD. But...I wouldn't trade Uschi for anything. However...if I do get another GSD in the future, I know now (thanks to this forum) that I need to look in a totally different direction and I also have a list of breeders that I would get my next one from.

Keep us posted on Lady's progress! She's lucky to have you!


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

This needs to be a sticky!!! Sorry for what you have gone/will go through with Lady Lulu. You may just want to start saving for that hip surgery in case you need to go that route later.


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## Lady Lulu (Sep 6, 2011)

Thanks Gwen for the links. I was actually just starting to try to look into what I could do to help her joints. It's all really new territory to me right now. 

And Marnie, I wanted to shout this breeder's information from the rooftop and fly banners revealing her for what she was, but in the end, she's obviously a very defensive, easily angered person. I was afraid she'd threaten me with some kind of lawsuit and I wouldn't put it past her to snoop around online. It would be my luck that she would stumble across my post and then the threats would start flying. She was basically a bad BYB who was masquerading as a more responsible breeder right up until she had my money and then my opinion didn't matter anymore. And as far as outing her goes...all of the other more respectable breeders I've found in Kentucky were all in the central to eastern portion of the state. If any of you stumble across one in the western portion I will be happy to let you know if it's her or not. She actually has at least one friend, if not two that are also fancy BYBs in my side of the state. They buy and trade each other's dogs apparently so all of their pups are closely related... Oh the things you learn on FB.  

As far as the health guarantees go. I understand that any dog can end up with a health problem. That's just the way nature works sometimes. I would've never posted this story had I not felt like I'd been attacked over my Lulu's problem. Had she just apologized I wouldn't have thought anything about it. It was just the way she was blaming everyone and everything but her breeding stock and then suggesting I was to blame for it that bothered me. 

When I take in an animal it is mine to provide for. I'm not going to force anyone else to help me pay or anything. That being said though... I do believe I will be starting a little hip replacement fund for Lady. That sounds like great advice! lol


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