# She won from the vet techs: need ideas



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Ever since Deja injured her foot (pierced by a piece of wood) a few years ago, she is impossible to be handled by vet or the techs (shots are OK). No matter what we have tried; treats, stern commands et,c she won't budge and struggles. She is not aggressive and has never bitten but she is now muzzle trained. She doesn't seem to be afraid; just won't cooperate. It is an excellent vet and they will only do things gently with a lot of cooing and treats. I have told them that baby talk and cooing just riles her up and to "just do it". But they are too hesitant. I had my breeder put in a chip because they couldn't on a pup in the past. The breeder is no-nonsense and just does it, telling the pup, "Sorry, it's a big one" and it's done and life goes on.
So at the vet yesterday I had hoped to get a blood sample for titering. It didn't work and I went home. I didn't want to ruin my reputation as trainer or else I had just been firm with her. They suggested "to come in on a regular bases so they could just love her and teach her that the vets/techs are ok and gradually get her used to being held." But that may work for some dogs but Deja is too smart to fall for that when treatment is needed. I know they mean well and this may work for Pugs and Retrievers but not for her. I wish there was a chute, like they have for cattle grin2 for this.
Any ideas?


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## Suzy25 (Mar 3, 2016)

Could you hold her? I work in a vets and the restraint for blood collection isn't very hard and I'm sure you could do it. where i work we always start of being very supportive the cooing etc.. , but when a dog isn't cooperating we get as stern as we need and have the "just do it fast and get it over with" type mentality. we will hold the weight of the dog up if we need to if they just shut down and lay there. Some techs aren't as strong or comfortable to really tell a large GSD off like she probably needs. 

Only other option i would think, if they really can't get the blood, or won't let you hold her in the position would be sedation :/ which I'm sure you dont want and would be a last resort option. 

If people come in that are clearly good trainers and owners, with a large dog like a GSD,rottie etc.. we sometimes let the owner come to the back (or just do it in the room) (especially if it is a super dog or human aggressive dog) because they know how to keep them under control more than the techs and if they are clearly not going to have a problem thinking we are abusing the dog if they yelp of shut down, (we get some of those "furmommys" that think we are killing the dog if it squrms or yelps, ugh)


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Suzy, I could have held her but they were not very comfortable when I offered that. I agree with you though. Next time I'l be more insistent.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I hold Newlie's head when necessary which is mostly with other medical visits not at his vet's office. That way, they won't say "He has to have a muzzle." This is not because he is doing anything to scare them, he is just big and a German Shepherd, that is enough for a lot of people.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

My boy is awesome with people--even with Halloween costumes, etc. He is muzzled every visit at the vet, though.

He does not like being touched/handled for examination. When he was at the vet 8:00 to 5:00 for a whole week when he chunked down a lamb shank and they were keeping an eye on him, the vet assistants would take him out of his cage and play with him, no problem. We walk into the vet office, no problem. He's happy to see the vet--no problem. 

When he was a puppy, I would touch his privates, gently pull his tail, touch his ears, etc., which I have done with all my dogs. But, Simon has boundaries about examination. I don't want any trouble and I don't want anyone scared by him--or worse.

He is muzzle trained and it's routine. It's my muzzle and I put it on after the vet comes in and says hi to Simon before we start any procedure. I remove it right afterwards. Simon knows he's not in trouble and he is expecting it. So safety and calmness all around. I had read that some GSD don't like being handled--personal space and all.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

If you really just want to get the job done, use a slip lead on the dog, run the lead through the door crack, or attach to something solid (not a person). Cover the dog's eyes, and push him against the wall with your body. A vet tech pushes the middle of the dog's body against the wall, but the owner is by the head. Ideally, his head should be in a corner of the room, as well. The head should not be moving much because of the secured lead. Dog should be muzzled. Get the blood from the back leg if needed. Done and out.

If your vet OKs it, and you can do it, the owner can do things like blood draws or injections of sedation under vet supervision. Some vets will not OK this. Depends on the vet. 

I've found I'm never judged by the vet as long as I am super upfront and honest about the dog. All but one of my dogs are easy to handle. The one that isn't- I am completely honest about it and take steps to keep the staff safe. It is what it is... there are ways to deal with it. This dog is 90 lbs and we've used the technique above and it worked. Done and out...


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Muskeg said:


> If you really just want to get the job done, use a slip lead on the dog, run the lead through the door crack, or attach to something solid (not a person). Cover the dog's eyes, and push him against the wall with your body. A vet tech pushes the middle of the dog's body against the wall, but the owner is by the head. Ideally, his head should be in a corner of the room, as well. The head should not be moving much because of the secured lead. Dog should be muzzled. Get the blood from the back leg if needed. Done and out.
> 
> If your vet OKs it, and you can do it, the owner can do things like blood draws or injections of sedation under vet supervision. Some vets will not OK this. Depends on the vet.
> 
> I've found I'm never judged by the vet as long as I am super upfront and honest about the dog. All but one of my dogs are easy to handle. The one that isn't- I am completely honest about it and take steps to keep the staff safe. It is what it is... there are ways to deal with it. This dog is 90 lbs and we've used the technique above and it worked. Done and out...


I am going to use this idea. Deja is muzzle trained. I just have to convince the staff that 'gentle and careful' won't work for her in this setting. Thanks a bunch!


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I've never had a problem with my vets letting me restrain my dogs when they're being examined. They will even let me position them, for example, when one of them had a cut foot, and they needed her to lie on her side to examine it. The attitude seems to be, 'better the owner gets bit than us, if the dog's going to get nasty!'

And if I think a muzzle is needed, I'll let them know. My male GSD hated having his nails done, and he wasn't great about the kennel cough vaccine that they used to squirt into the nose, either!

He was really good with everything else. He got bitten by another dog, and the vet was flushing the wound out, with him just needing minimal restraint from the vet tech.

This was one time I was a little too shook up myself to assist. Nothing gets the adrenaline going like a dog fight...


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

wolfy dog said:


> I am going to use this idea. Deja is muzzle trained. I just have to convince the staff that 'gentle and careful' won't work for her in this setting. Thanks a bunch!


We start as low stress as possible at my clinic - there are some dogs that can stand still with the owner petting its head and I can get blood from a rear leg, but if you restrain the dog at all it completely loses it. As long as the dog does not try to sit, this is fine. This is an exception, though. Most dogs (98%) need some form of restraint in order to accomplish anything treatment-wise. 5-10 seconds feels like forever to hold still if a needle is in!

We love owners who are realistic and use a basket muzzle as needed. We don't hold grudges, and always use whatever method is least traumatic to our patient...but no one likes getting bit.

Your dog honestly is one that, if healthy otherwise, we would just sedate. Come in, hang onto your dogs head, we pop an injection in and wait. Once puppy is asleep, we do a full exam, draw blood, x-rays, whatever. Give dog a reversal drug = everyone happy and everything done no hassle.

You could even just pop a pill into a treat before you go to the office. Trazadone is one we rec to owners of dogs who just don't like their procedures. Talk to your vet about just sedating when you go in. Research the drugs - acepromazine is an effective sedative, but there is some evidence that it does not do much for the dog mentally, and can make the aggression worse. 

Best of luck!


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## Misha111 (Oct 31, 2016)

My late girl was seriously ill when she was two. After that, she wouldn't fall for the treats, soft praise etc because she knew it would be followed by some form of treatment.. She was muzzle trained although I think with the younger techs they just saw a GSD in a muzzle and were instantly more nervous because of it. 
I always held her and put her in the position the Vet wanted. She was definitely better with those that were matter of fact and just got on with it instead of trying to be her best friend first. I also had a halti under her basket muzzle so it was easier to restrain her head, probably the same effect as a slip collar. 
Regards your reputation as a trainer, she was the only girl I have owned that has hated the vets. All of them were bought up the same way, ironically one of them was a lot more sickly and was fine at the vets. 
As for coming into the vets on a regular basis, my late girl would have been 'how stupid do you think I am ".


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I will have a talk with the vet tomorrow to see what we can best do (the vet wasn't present yesterday). My preference is a Valium tablet before going in but the techs were not authorized to do that. I used that before my oldies needed to be PTS at home so they wouldn't have to face the vet in their last hour.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So often women are taught from babyhood to be polite, and in being polite to ask or to hook questions into our statements. But when we ask, it is natural for the other party to find a reason to say "no" or to choose to do it their way. I am not sure if I am being clear about this. 

Sometimes it is better to tell them what you are going to do, rather than ask them if you could, should, whatever. Some places have a policy about restraining the dogs themselves because I guess if you get bit by your dog, while they are doing a procedure on them, you could sue them.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

selzer said:


> So often women are taught from babyhood to be polite, and in being polite to ask or to hook questions into our statements. But when we ask, it is natural for the other party to find a reason to say "no" or to choose to do it their way. I am not sure if I am being clear about this.
> 
> Sometimes it is better to tell them what you are going to do, rather than ask them if you could, should, whatever. Some places have a policy about restraining the dogs themselves because I guess if you get bit by your dog, while they are doing a procedure on them, you could sue them.


I did tell them the sweet-talk wasn't going to change Deja's mind. So it will be the choice of giving her sedatives or hold her forcibly. I don't like both. If I discover a new trick it will only work once.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

My vet is leery of Varik. He has a asst. help, but I'm the primary holder. The vet for some reason wants to put him up on the examining table, which Varik hates. I let it slide when we were going about his AG issues, but Varik is like a bucking bronco when he's up there. The poor asst. ends up with a dog almost on top of his head sometime. 

I've finally told them flatly, eh we are going to work with him on the ground. I know it's uncomfortable for the humans, but oh well. Varik has had to wear a muzzle at the vet's and only at the vet's since before he was a year old, because he growled when the vet tried to ... pick him up to put him on the table to examine his injured leg. 

You're paying them to treat your dog ... you just need to be the one directing how it's examined. Vets don't always make the right call .. particularly when anxious/nervous themselves.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Patton is usually treated right on the floor, which can be awkward, especially since he likes to try squeeze into the corner. Better that than dealing with him up on the table. He was fine up there as a youngster but as big as he is now, he doesn't want to be lifted onto a slippery table. Often my hubby and I both come and Patton will stick his face into my sweeties chest while they work. We've done that with all our dogs. Typically we don't like the "keep the owner in the waiting room" vets, at least not for routine work. Going in regularly just to check weight or a cookie doesn't make my dogs any less nervous about getting the shot up the nose, or being left behind and waking up groggy in a crate. My vet and at least one tech have or currently own GSDs and they have many as clients. They are pretty good with understanding them.

Both of my dogs have had a couple surgeries and I suspect they drug them up before lifting them. Much easier on everyone involved.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

wolfy dog can you have them prepare everything beforehand so you can just walk into the room and get it done? No waiting room or check in? It may help with setting a no nonsense approach mindset. And at least cut the stress time for her.

I hope it goes better for both of you.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Heartandsoul said:


> wolfy dog can you have them prepare everything beforehand so you can just walk into the room and get it done? No waiting room or check in? It may help with setting a no nonsense approach mindset. And at least cut the stress time for her.
> 
> I hope it goes better for both of you.


Yes, that is a good idea, along with a eye cap and holding her in a corner. I prefer the non-medicated route. I am also going to ask if they can draw blood while she is in the car.
One day she needed to be seen for a post-op check up. We were put in a room with a rug, couch and a tissue box. You know what that is for.... And so did she. She hesitated to go into that room. I don't think that has helped either.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Our clinic doesn't make appointments and has a small waiting room. I check in and go behind the clinic where there are shade trees and that's where we wait. One of the vet techs comes to get us when it's time for my appointment. 

They have now put in pocket doors on the exam room (they only have one room at the moment). Varik knows how to use his nose to open the door so he can go visit the receptionist. He's fine with everything, just not when it's time for the vet to touch him. I think you can minimize a lot by you being the one in charge, not the vet. Let him do what he's good at (the clinical side) and you handle the behavioral side.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Sensitive subject. As a tech, in all my practices, owners are not allowed to restrain their own pets. Only exception is LE K9. Why? Insurance and liability. Many o many a practice has been sued and lost when the pet bit the owner. It's our society and it sucks, especially for the good and capable owners. 

Muzzle training is good. But you also need to be more forceful. TELL don't ask how he needs to be handled. If the tech or Dr are hesitant or scared, ask for different ones. 

As a tech I have dealt with plenty of jerk GSD. They are not known for being cooperative in the vets office. I just go in and get stuff done. Less is more. 

When you say you dog doesn't cooperate, can you explain better? Is he is a bucking bronco? You say no snapping or biting, but is he growling, getting very still? Challenging the staff? 

I love GSD, I was always the one called to help with them. But please remember that I( as a tech) have had more bites from a dog right after being told (oh he's friendly), so yeah. I don't trust most owners.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> Sensitive subject. As a tech, in all my practices, owners are not allowed to restrain their own pets. Only exception is LE K9. Why? Insurance and liability. Many o many a practice has been sued and lost when the pet bit the owner. It's our society and it sucks, especially for the good and capable owners.
> 
> Muzzle training is good. But you also need to be more forceful. TELL don't ask how he needs to be handled. If the tech or Dr are hesitant or scared, ask for different ones.
> 
> ...


Bronco style (great term!). Never growling, biting, baring teeth or being still. Oh and I forgot to mention that next time she wil have the prong on.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

This may not be popular (and I know you probably won't like it WD...), but my dogs absolutely love going to the vet, so I want to share why: they do playcare at the same vet clinic. 

My vet offers really high-quality playcare for dog-social dogs, and great boarding with playcare incorporated. Mine go about once a week. The staff is fantastic with special needs dogs (blind, deaf, physically challenged, whatever...they make sure they have a good experience, and are super-careful in putting dogs together). While there, mine are sometimes the only dogs out in the yard, or they're out with a few regular, good-natured buddies. The staff throws the ball, lets them splash in the shallow pool, wears them out, and then gives them nap time. They know my dogs very, very well, and they're fantastic with them.

My dogs have had some VERY painful procedures done in that clinic, but they don't seem to remember them. They remember the staff who throws the ball instead of the one who emptied the infected anal gland, so it's an overwhelmingly happy place to visit. They're always sure we're going to play and swim, and usually they're right.

My vet said that the playcare clients the most anxiety-free patients because they're so conditioned to good stuff happening at the clinic. It's also made ortho exams a lot more comprehensive: he can watch them romp and run, take them for a walk in between appointments, and spend a lot more time thinking about subtle things in the gait if they're spending the whole day there. 

Not all vets offer this, or have a good, stable, well-loved staff that sticks around to get to know the dogs as individuals, but it's been an absolute game-changer in making our appointments really easy on the dogs.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

That may work for some but I know the fully 100% that Deja will enjoy these activities but will go into bronco-mode (thanks for the term, GSDSAR) the second a medical treatment arises. She does remember the procedures I am sure. She was fine that time before.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Magwart said:


> This may not be popular (and I know you probably won't like it WD...), but my dogs absolutely love going to the vet, so I want to share why: they do playcare at the same vet clinic.
> 
> My vet offers really high-quality playcare for dog-social dogs, and great boarding with playcare incorporated. Mine go about once a week. The staff is fantastic with special needs dogs (blind, deaf, physically challenged, whatever...they make sure they have a good experience, and are super-careful in putting dogs together). While there, mine are sometimes the only dogs out in the yard, or they're out with a few regular, good-natured buddies. The staff throws the ball, lets them splash in the shallow pool, wears them out, and then gives them nap time. They know my dogs very, very well, and they're fantastic with them.
> 
> ...


What a wonderful thing, I am seriously jealous!!!

I have nothing like that where I live, but I will say one thing about expectations. 

The first time I took Newlie to the vet's office, the vet's son (who is studying to be a vet) said "You all are crazy!" I just laughed because I know what he and his Dad were probably thinking. Here we walk in with this large German Shepherd, we are both not young and my husband was already terribly disabled from the disease that would eventually kill him. I am sure they thought we had lost our minds. But after they saw Newlie a time or two, they began to change their opinions. The vet's son actually came to my house a time or two in the beginning to help me get medicine in Newlie's infected ears. Jack is a big guy, but he had everything he could do to hold on to Newlie to get the drops in. Newlie wrestled with him, but never growled, snapped or bit. Another time at the vet's office, the vet had just finished trimming Newlie's toenails, I believe, and as soon as the son turned him lose, Newlie gave the vet a big, sloppy kiss right in the face.

The point I am trying to make is that they know Newlie well enough to see that, despite his rather intimidating appearance, he really is a sweetheart. People that see him maybe just a time or two don't always get to know him that well. They see him, they make assumptions and they are afraid, who can blame them? I wouldn't want to get bit either. 

I am never afraid that my dog will bite me and that is why I am perfectly willing and able to hold his head even during procedures that are uncomfortable or somewhat painful. He always just sticks his nose down between my knees and growls and cries and carries on till it's over. Once, at the surgeon's office, he had enough of his back leg being manipulated and starting bucking like a horse. I don't have anything against muzzles, per se, and I have even told people at times that they could muzzle Newlie if they needed to. But as long as they will let me hold him, I will be glad to do so.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

We solved that by going to a fear free vet with our trainer so they could have a successful exam and see how he needs to be treated. They are very good with him. He has learned good things happen when he is restrained and quiet, and we finally have been able to have good exams. I go in when they are not busy. I restrain him, the tech treats him when he shows calming behaviors and the vet works quickly to get the job done.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Magwart said:


> This may not be popular (and I know you probably won't like it WD...), but my dogs absolutely love going to the vet, so I want to share why: they do playcare at the same vet clinic.
> 
> My vet offers really high-quality playcare for dog-social dogs, and great boarding with playcare incorporated. Mine go about once a week. The staff is fantastic with special needs dogs (blind, deaf, physically challenged, whatever...they make sure they have a good experience, and are super-careful in putting dogs together). While there, mine are sometimes the only dogs out in the yard, or they're out with a few regular, good-natured buddies. The staff throws the ball, lets them splash in the shallow pool, wears them out, and then gives them nap time. They know my dogs very, very well, and they're fantastic with them.
> 
> ...


None of my dogs has any problem with the vet, and none of them have gone to any play care there. In fact Ramona has been no where since she was 4 months old when I took her to a single class for my nieces. Now where. She is not 15 or 16 months old and I took her in on Saturday for an ear infection. She was fine. They put painful swabs and a scope into the inflamed ear. She ate treats from the people. 

I think some dogs are going to have issues and others are not. I don't think letting the play at the vets with other dogs is going to make it any easier for most dogs. For some dogs, who probably wouldn't have had issues anyway, maybe.


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## Misha111 (Oct 31, 2016)

wolfy dog said:


> That may work for some but I know the fully 100% that Deja will enjoy these activities but will go into bronco-mode (thanks for the term, GSDSAR) the second a medical treatment arises. She does remember the procedures I am sure. She was fine that time before.


My girl did all her training classes at the vets, she knew them all but something flicked a switch in her head after one stay and she didn't forget. Vets know what they are doing but you are the owner and you know your dog best. Personally for a simple procedure, I chose to restrain her than sedate her but having read all this thread realise that the US has different rules.


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

gsdsar said:


> Sensitive subject. As a tech, in all my practices, owners are not allowed to restrain their own pets. Only exception is LE K9. Why? Insurance and liability. Many o many a practice has been sued and lost when the pet bit the owner. It's our society and it sucks, especially for the good and capable owners.
> 
> Muzzle training is good. But you also need to be more forceful. TELL don't ask how he needs to be handled. If the tech or Dr are hesitant or scared, ask for different ones.
> 
> ...


YES to all of this!

I don't even ask if dogs are friendly anymore. Even if they are, the stress of illness and a trip to the vet can really change things...not to mention restraint, pain, etc.

FYI: Because of the reputation of the GSD in the vetmed community (most of the vets you meet are completely terrified of them, I have met a few who actually hate them...one in particular was really nasty about it) people come at your dog with fear. With fear, commonly comes aggression. Many vets/techs/assts working with your dog will be impatient or rough with dogs who scare them. It honestly helps to just be neutral and to give the dog some sort of structure.

Others will baby talk and try too hard to be nice, which can also set dogs off. Some places are very fear free/less is more, others will get five people to lay on a dog as it screams during a blood draw. The latter then wonder why the dog is a huge pain in the neck to handle the next time it comes in. It really sucks to see that, and then the person just blaming the dog..."just a shepherd" they say. ugh I just want to slap people who think like that. As a tech myself it just kinda boggles my mind a bit lol. A little empathy goes a long way.

The dog is afraid, and commonly reacts with aggression. Many dogs shut down, which allow procedures to be done with them. Those dogs that shut down reward that type of handling, because it works for the person doing it. GSDs are typically dogs who don't do that (they are not alone!!!!) and will react in some way. Most just wiggle around or move/buck, some will try to bite. They are generally intuitive and opinionated, which can make them difficult to work with. Most of the "bad" breeds/dogs just need somebody to put a little brainpower behind how they do things. All of them need counter-conditioning and some empathy...and occaisionally some meds lol.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

My dogs don't enjoy it. My girl just goes under my chair and I will have to pull her out and hold her while they do whatever. She has never been nasty and I doubt ever will be. Just resists slightly but mostly just tense with scared eyes. I tell her she is okay and good girl for holding still. 

I have always been so wary of letting anyone take my dogs in back to do whatever. But I finally have a vet I really trust and I did find out she behaved better for ultrasound when I was not there so I made myself scarse.

My boy resists by tensing up and being uncooperative but no flailing or bucking. He has grumbled a few times....I don't quite want to call it a growl because it wasn't quite but it was something. So he now wears a muzzle if he is face to face with anyone but me. he was not a hard dog to muzzle train so a no brainer. He is not friendly or social once we are in an exam room. He knows whoever comes in is going to do something to him and he isn't there to make friends. But he so far minds his own business or makes gestures like he would like to get out of the room. You know, he'll look at the door, look at me, asking me to let him out. Pretends he doesn't see the vet. This i am ok with...I get it...bad things happen there. Just want to be sure it doesn't escalate with him because he is a very big strong dog who is willing to growl to defend himself from something he thinks will be painful. He too does better with matter of fact handling and no hesitant "it's ok baby" stuff. it's not ok, he knows it, and the anticipation of all that nonsense just makes it worse for him. My one vet just treats him like a horse, once he lays hands on he does not break contact he just calmly gets it all done because letting go and then touching him again gets that anticipation going too.

This reminds me I was going to take him in for some visits with nothing painful...just to try and balance the scale so to speak. Last time he just had a little blood draw for a tick panel and he wasn't very upset about that. I think he will be ok with a little good preventative work


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I think it is a good idea to bring them in on simple
Visits or just getting weighed. After max had that retained testicle surgery and then the corn cob surgery -I was worried how he would be at the vet. I voiced my concern and they were good with him. He was a good boy. He was a bit more nervous then he usually was he always just took a nap before his turn. He was wide awake. We went back two times to get stitches out which they brought him in the back and they were not ready to be removed so I felt better. I did not want him going in the back every time feeling something drastic was going to happen. The third time he went back to have stitches out which is pretty painless. I like they way they handle him. he does good with firm and calm and confident handling and if he is uncomfortable - less is more at the vet. As mentioned earlier I agree vets who are afraid which there are many -do handle gs to rough or go out of their way being extra mushy.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I have ALWAYS restrained my own dogs at the vet, with a few rare exceptions (x-rays, ear flushing, ultrasound of abdomen.) 

When Eska had pyometra, and needed numerous ultrasounds of her uterus, I was present for all the examinations, and allowed and even encouraged to help. Eska was an absolute angel through it all, and the only time she went to jump off the table was when someone opened a cupboard door, and she thought she was getting a treat!

One of the few times the vet wanted me to leave was when both Tasha and Ranger objected to having the kennel cough vaccine shot up their noses. I gave them no argument. It didn't help, though...they were just as unco-operative without me in the room! :rolleyes2:

I would be quite upset if I was told to leave because they were afraid I'd sue them. I'd be looking for another vet, PDQ!

I firmly believe the owner's presence can help calm the animal, as long as the owner themselves is able to remain calm.

My older female wanted to follow me into the vet clinic recently when I had to go and pick up some medication for Eska. The vet was very happy to find out she was so popular with my girl!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yikes if I did not trust my vet to handle my dogs. During a extensive procedure I would not bring them there. It is hard to care for a dog when they are hard to treat.-I had one -we would have a vet come to the house and I would handle him- this was for basic care. Many vets do not want the liability. I know of one vet who was a snake and had this young girl hold her Rottweiler who was be putting down for severe behavior issues. The dog did not even have a muzzle on and as the vet injected the dog with euthanasia the dog took a huge chomp out of this young girls face. So sad and so irresponsible. I always felt bad for this girl when I heard this story what an awful experience for this owner of this dog to go through I had heard she had massive scars. It so important to find a good vet.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If they want to restrain, I am perfectly happy to give them the lead. For one thing, they know what they're going to do, and they've trained their techs to watch their back. If I am holding the dog and it bites the vet, my fault. 

But I am really not worried about my dogs. They seem to be fine at the vets. The closest I or anyone ever got to being bitten by one of mine was when the vet and the tech were trying to get a big singleton pup out of Babs. Now I already had my hand up in her trying to hook the head and help him be born, but he just wasn't coming, and I got her up to the vet and I was holding her head while they were trying to get him out, and Babsy was being hurt, and her mouth pressed down on my thumb. It wasn't a bite, it was just pressing. The vet did ask if I wanted a muzzle, but then they got the pup out, and everyone was happy and fine.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Selzer, you were lucky. I've heard of birthing stories where the person holding the dog didn't fare as well as that!

The happy part of it was the bitch's owner felt so badly, she gave her assistant a free puppy!


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I don't ask, I don't tell, I just take hold of Newlie's collar and wait for the surgeon or whoever it is to do what they have to do. Nobody has objected yet.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sunsilver said:


> Selzer, you were lucky. I've heard of birthing stories where the person holding the dog didn't fare as well as that!
> 
> The happy part of it was the bitch's owner felt so badly, she gave her assistant a free puppy!


Once upon a time, I had three bitch puppies. I sold them all. The one that had all the confidence and was a people-dog, came back to me when the family wanted to do a lot of camping, and didn't want to take the dog with them, and didn't want to pay for boarding. I love her to death, nice bitch. 

The second bitch, the one with all the drive, came back too. They had injured her. I had to let her heal, and kept her for about 6.5 years, and finally let her have another go at a family of her own. That is working out ok. 

The third bitch went to her new home at a year old. She was less confident. In my opinion, she would make a great deterrent, but not a protection dog. Time marched on. Her owner got another pup from me, and 2 years later she called to say that her girl was pregnant. Ok, I knew she wanted this, but it was an accident, and I offered to help with the whelping. The bitch had grown VERY protective of the home/people -- exactly what they wanted. Generally, she did not let people get out of their car. But then, I came over, having only seen her once she went to her new home. She greeted me with booming barks. 

To be perfectly honest, when I sat down on the couch in the basement, I wasn't sure if she was going to eat me or not. But I talked with my friend, and she came up on the couch and nestled up next to me. She slept with me that night! 

When she had the babies, 5 out of 6 had huge heads and I had to stick my hand where human hands were never meant to go, and I wondered again if she would eat me, but she understood that I was helping, and, well, I was able to deliver them all. They were all alive, but they did lose one later on. What a trip. If I could make a living being a doggy-midwife that would be my dream-job. I could have my tool box filled with thermometer, rickrack, notebook, scissors, alcohol, hand cleaner, dental floss, kitchen scale, and a bag of clean, new wash clothes, and a few books, maybe a can of carnation condensed milk or two. I would be like Super-Nanny, coming to your home, to deliver your whelps and get you started off on the right track. 

Watching baby puppies start to breath, then start to nurse, and watching a momma GSD become a dam, and watch the instincts kick in, an after the pups are dry and nursing and she is paying attention to all the little squeakers, and you can sit back on your heels, hands off, and just watch for a few minutes -- best feeling ever, 'cept maybe seeing a human baby begin breathing and thriving, but I wouldn't know about that.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

selzer said:


> Once upon a time, I had three bitch puppies. I sold them all. The one that had all the confidence and was a people-dog, came back to me when the family wanted to do a lot of camping, and didn't want to take the dog with them, and didn't want to pay for boarding. I love her to death, nice bitch.
> 
> The second bitch, the one with all the drive, came back too. They had injured her. I had to let her heal, and kept her for about 6.5 years, and finally let her have another go at a family of her own. That is working out ok.
> 
> ...


Give up their dog because of camping?? Boarding ? This makes no sense. Of course maybe they're talking about trailer park "camping" where everyone has an assigned lot all in close proximity. 

My dogs love camping, what we call camping anyways. They get to be free for the most part, no collars, leashes, roads or people, just miles and miles of forest, creeks, and mountains.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

newlie said:


> I don't ask, I don't tell, I just take hold of Newlie's collar and wait for the surgeon or whoever it is to do what they have to do. Nobody has objected yet.


That is basically what I do. Sometimes I'll ask where they want me but It's basically understood I intend to participate. It never occurred to me to not be part of the process. My vet is very tolerant of me and my boy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nigel said:


> Give up their dog because of camping?? Boarding ? This makes no sense. Of course maybe they're talking about trailer park "camping" where everyone has an assigned lot all in close proximity.
> 
> My dogs love camping, what we call camping anyways. They get to be free for the most part, no collars, leashes, roads or people, just miles and miles of forest, creeks, and mountains.


Glad to have her back, really. She was a little under a year, and I was going to take her CGC test with her that week, but a buyer with a small girl came and it was a good fit. I told them to continue with her training. But it was winter, and well, people get lazy in the winter. 

So, I was contacted about boarding her and a few weeks before I was going to take her, the man e-mailed me whether there would be any cost. It was an e-mail, so I called some breeder-friends and asked what they charged. The going rate seemed to be $20/night. So I e-mailed back, $10/night. I heard nothing back until the week I was supposed to take her. 

It was, "I've had enough, you need to come and get her." I called quickly and asked what was going on. He told me that they usually shut the bedroom door but they just put up a new venesian blind and she chewed it up. I said, "I am on my way." I went and got her. 

The mother was crying. The little girl was crying. She drew a picture of her and gave it to me. I was so sad for them. The mother and she walked me to the car. They told me they were going to do a lot of camping this summer and she is too interested in the neighborhood cats that come into the yard, so they don't want to take her. They had her for five months and did absolutely no training with her. Doesn't matter. she is spectacular. I took her through CGC. I can get a title on her if I want to. She has never destroyed anything of mine and she has never gone after any small critters either. But whatever. The little girl is grown now.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

The vet clinic and I have a plan for Deja's bronco behavior. By no means is she afraid or aggressive; just refuses cooperation. On a regular bases, come in with her, muzzled, put her on the table (she is fine with that), no talk, no squealing sweetness, no treats; just a quick no nonsense hug from tech and vet and release (no treatment). Repeat a few times, go home, no treats. Vet suggested after I mentioned the prong, to bring her in on her prong so she already has a certain mindset. Hooray for my vet, I am impressed. Will start in a few months when my back is healed. Excited about this plan.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> The vet clinic and I have a plan for Deja's bronco behavior. By no means is she afraid or aggressive; just refuses cooperation. On a regular bases, come in with her, muzzled, put her on the table (she is fine with that), no talk, no squealing sweetness, no treats; just a quick no nonsense hug from tech and vet and release (no treatment). Repeat a few times, go home, no treats. Vet suggested after I mentioned the prong, to bring her in on her prong so she already has a certain mindset. Hooray for my vet, I am impressed. Will start in a few months when my back is healed. Excited about this plan.


This is a great plan!!!


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