# Tummy trouble!



## Hellginge (Jul 28, 2012)

Hi All, 


Im new to the forum, I just wanted to share my experience of owning my first GSD. to be honest it been a rocky road so far, suffice to say that we did all we could to buy a puppy from a reputable breeder, all low hip scored/straight backs (personal preference) elbow scored, haemaphilia tests, met the parents, grandparents, siblings. How could it go wrong?

We booked her at 3 weeks, collected her at 8 weeks, she was vet checked and was wormed in front of us on collection.
At home later she had a loose stool, I put it down to stress of moving, being wormed, we were supplied a rather poor quality dry food with her and didnt race to change it initially with the tummy upset. 

After having her first vaccination the loose stool got worse and more watery instead of the usual cow pat. so we very gradually changed her food to a well known brand of hypoallergenic dry food and we wet food which was natural had meat, rice, veg etc. the stool improved back to its cow pat normality. 

after her second vacc I wormed her again with drontal. the stool didnt change at all so I went to the vet, she gave us a course of panacur wormer, said drontal was rubbish, gave us a week long course of antibiotic, 3 days into this treatment she got a horrible itchy thing going on and a scorching ear infection in both ears. 

back to the vet........ vet suggests the underlying ear problem is causing the diahorrea, okay sounds reasonable, I pay for injections, and ear drops. 

ears clear up in about a week, stool unchanged. 

took her off the wet food and left her on the dry to try and "dry it up" no change

Back to the vet........vet suggests v expensive blood test for EPI, which may come back inconclusive - this test is too expensive to be inconclusive! or expensive dry science diet with pre/probiotics. I told her I needed time to think. I mentioned raw foods which I was blown out of the water on, i was told my dog NEEDED carbohydrate. I was getting fed up and progressively poorer so quipped rightly or wrongly that I had never heard of a pack of wolves strategically rounding up and hunting the local oat or barley crop, or ever heard any of the farmers who provide our hay say they were losing grain crops due to the local greedy fox population! I know canids are opportunistic and even scavengers but this made me very cross. 

Being a horse owner I am very careful what i put into my horses ultra delicate tums, they are fed as naturally as possible as colic is just not worth the risk. 

I decided to just go for it..... I got home, binned the dry food, slapped a load of rough chopped washed raw chicken infront of the pair of them (the older JRT is a reaaaally fussy eater) and they jumped on it like me on a cake. 

That surprised me no end especaially with little old fuss pot!

The real test though was to see whether the GSD pup would vomit from it, whether the stool would be the same as usual or just a lot worse.

After 24 hours had passed not only with no ill effects but there was not three giant piles of foul smelling dog pat, I knew something had changed. THEN the first solid log our dog had ever produced arrived yesterday morning, not the usual light coloured foul smelling pile, but a small, normal coloured, firm poop with the foul odor nowhere to be smelled. 

I am totally gobsmacked, it was all so simple!

I have been feeding commercial foods for 20 plus years, with no ill effects, and the older dog will probably still get some unless she decides on her own not to eat it. So I am not saying it is for everyone but its been like an overnight miracle for my puppy. 

I have now been reserching the diet in more detail, BARF for instance probably wont do for my GSD as i think veg and rice are asking for trouble with her individually, so prey model it is for now. 

I just thought I would share this as ive been astounded, I thought my dog was going to suffer a life time of stomach problems, she probably would do if I didnt have the courage to try it.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

poor diet , by your own words "we were supplied a rather poor quality dry food with her" so then it would not be far fetched to assume that this has been the dam's diet , and the pups diet to date. 
then the stress of moving -- it helps if the breeder had introduced the pup to mild stressors at levels the pup could manage -- this includes separation from the dam and separation from the litter mates. All mine go through this . Each pup has "quality" time with me , away from the littermates . The pup I select may spend 10 minutes by itself in a small crate while I get dressed or finish lunch or do some chore , then out comes pup and is treated as if it is the only pup on property. We end up the same , pup put back into crate for period of time -- then returned to littermates.

There are a lot of discussions revolving around vaccinations . There is so much to offer for you to consider . Google vaccinosis and wade through the material. Here is a handy one as it includes Dr Jean Dodds , renowned specialist , Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol

of interest Vaccinosis 

also you may want to subscribe to DOGS NATURALLY . The current issue July/Aug features Vaccines and Skin Issues. 
Having met with the publisher and editor just the other day I know that the Sept / Oct issue will feature digestion, IBS/IBD . 
Dogs Naturally Magazine | Facebook proud to say I get a glowing recommendation on page 57.

This is a heavy read Dogs Naturally Magazine SMOKE AND MIRRORS

Firstly , a cow pat is NOT NORMAL . Still indicating a digestive and intestinal problem.

A week long course of anti biotics more than likely set back any hope for resolution. Check your dictionary for this word -- iatrogenic ---- caused by DR . Essentially what this would have done is wipe out all gut flora bacteria , essential and pathogenic , the little that this dog had to begin with . 

What you could do is get some slippery elm - a powder , or even apple pectin , to sooth the intestines and to naturally firm the stool by allowing the intestines to reabsorb the fluid portion of the stool , and to absorb the nutrients before wooshing out. 
You could make a bone broth . Go round to the butcher and get an assortment of bones , poultry , pork neck, beef neck , cow's foot if you have a "Caribbean" butcher (very rich source of gelatin) . Put all bones in a pot cover with water and keep reducing , adding water , reduce - remove bones , toss them out , reduce fluid further , then set in a bowl to chill in the fridge (ice-box) , The result will be highly nutritious gelatin , or aspic, which you can offer you dog .

Rice , white rice, for dogs is rubbish. No nutritional value there . At the very least if giving rice to solidify stool give SPROUTED brown rice, or brown rice that you have let sit in water for a few hours to remove phytates , phytic acid, which inhibits absorption of minerals.

What you need to do is to innoculate the pups digestive system by replacing a healthy gut flora --- you should find yourself the most comprehensive DIGESTIVE ENZYME . Standard is 4 strains, protease, cellulase, lipase, amylase -- but you can get more strains . I know because the pro-biotic , digestive aide that I provide has 16 strains. Then you need to find yourself the most comprehensive probiotic formula . Yogurt won't do . Not enough, but better than nothing. Kefir much better option -- surprise , even sauerkraut is excellent - fermented foods . 
Glad you saw results so quickly !!!

You do not have to have a dog with life long chronic disorder --- good on you .

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Carmspack...as per usual...you are a wealth of information...now get on over to Entero-Chronic and advise on IBD...I just posted about L-Glutamine, Katerina has a link for the product she is considering...

Hellginge....GOOD FOR YOU...B.A.R.F is a non grain form of feeding, per model is when you throw the whole carcass down with or without fur...or more civilized society just meat and bones


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

L-Glutamine is recommended for cases with h-pylori also.


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## Hellginge (Jul 28, 2012)

Hi Guys, 

thanks so much for the advice and the links and taking the time to reply, of course we can do nothing to change the earlier stressor exposure at this point, but I am aware the breed needs good socialisation and that is what I have focussed on with her other than the health issue, fortunately she is a confident outgoing and calm dog up until now. Our breeder told us she finds that GSD do better on non rich dry diet and we have never fed our other dog dry food as Ive always been of the opinion that a dog cant live on extruded dried over cooked diets but you follow the advice then you live and you learn. So I was always going to change her food but the best my money could buy didnt help her one iota! 

I have so far refused the third vaccination recommended to us by the vet as aparently it seems black and tan dogs are more prone to Parvo Virus and I dont want to take any chances but I feel her immune system has been racked enough lately and just needs to fully recover before this is done. I also feel that sometimes all vets are interested in is money which makes me angry as I assume the went into animal medicine because they like animals and want to help them, but I see it is because it comes with a license to print their own money! 

Im still reading a lot of things and of course I will have to see what products are available in this country, with regards to enzyme replacement I would definitely consider this if for some reason the pups tummy returned to its former cow pat self, however as with all things being put where they are not meant to be, there are side effects to be considered, the last thing i want is my pup to have a sore mouth when at this point its a case of if it aint broke dont fix it. 
So I will just be keeping a close eye on her for now to see how she progresses over the next month or so and just read as much as I can about raw diets. 

I will keep you all posted on our progress!


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

From one Continent to another the bad practice of over vaccination prevails...it's a drug companies pandemic...

Great to have a "Natural" member on board who understands less is more and real food is medicine....there are a lot of dogs (people who need the confidence to get off the veterinary hampster wheel)

Cheers


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I am sorry , I am not understanding this " with all things being put where they are not meant to be, there are side effects to be considered, the last thing i want is my pup to have a sore mouth when at this point its a case of if it aint broke dont fix it. "


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## Hellginge (Jul 28, 2012)

In response to carmspack

I mean what I actually wrote. Ie. Powdered enzymes is well stated as causing mouth bleeding in dogs on powdered replacement enzyme. Right at this moment in time, as her stool has become normal then it doesn't need to be fixed at this point. Simple. 

-i wouldn't rule out using it but I won't just use it for the sake of it. 

I was sharing an experience which has been very positive so far but one step at a time.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

The enzymes are mixed into food , not sprinkled into the mouth . 
Can you show me where it is "well stated as causing mouth bleeding" ?? 

Carmen


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