# Hemangiosarcoma: the breed component



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

The number of hemangio posts we see here is so unsettling. So many of us have lost great dogs unexpectedly to this wicked cancer.

Is it my imagination that it's becoming more common? Has it always been like this?

I know that the "cause" of cancer is hard to pin down in its genetics, epigenetics, and environmental components. The incidence _in this breed _seems to suggest that there has to be _some _aspect of it that is likely genetic.

Dogs typically don't die from it until 8 or 10, long after they will have produced litters of puppies, and likely those litters have produced their own litters...so the genes have already been replicated. That makes me wonder if the situation is hopeless. 

Is there any hope to reduce the incidence of hemangio in the breed? Is it something that breeders actively think about -- along with other health issues -- e.g., to disqualify the _progeny _of dogs who are known to have died of it from breeding? Or are the variables too complex to even address?


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Interesting thread. I lost my Jackson to hermangiosarcoma last year, in an horrendous event that I will never be able to forget. 

It sure seems as though more dogs are dying from it. But it could be simply that I am paying more attention to it because of Jackson.
Sheilah


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

You really have to wonder if it is not genetic!

here is a very limited family history of 4 generations from a foundation female, dogs owned and produced by a few people but many many unknowns also produced from the founding female - now to the 6 or 7th generation - same initial means same litter

Foundation Female dog (Died of H.)

Dtr A (Died of H)
Son Z (died of H)
Dtr B (died of H)

Dtr A Progeny
Son X, Son Y & Dtr Y (all died of H)

Grandson Y progeny
Son C (died of H) - only litter of Grandson Y

Son Z 

several sons and daughter reported to have died of H


I don't want to use real names, but suffice to say, there have been alot of dogs in this family lost to Hemangio...I hope you can follow this...

Lee


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I've lost two to hermangiosarcoma, but not gsds. One was a malamute mix and the other a lab. Is there a way, if detected early, that a dog can survive it? Or is it always fatal?


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Nigel said:


> I've lost two to hermangiosarcoma, but not gsds. One was a malamute mix and the other a lab. Is there a way, if detected early, that a dog can survive it? Or is it always fatal?


I was told that early detection can buy some time, but not provide a "cure".
Sheilah


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Lee, this is fascinating. I can't help but wonder if hemangio is like some deal-with-the-devil mutation that's the price of something else that's wonderful in the dogs.

Is it possible the H-gene (if it exists) could ever be traced back to one (or more) long-ago dogs that appear in many pedigrees?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

the pedigrees of these dogs that I am thinking of really run the gamut of west german working lines....and all had Fero at least once...

My own male was hit by it at the end (12+)....and I just found out that one of his pups died unexpectedly...his owner had died and family cared for him .....but did not watch him closely...but it sounds like H. for him too...

Lee


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

In the last 5 years, I have really seen an increase in Hermangio....and these dogs are going from fine to "not right" to dead in a matter of just days


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The Broad institute is doing a study on genetics and hemangio. Broad Institute has identified and is researching some regions of the genome and are working on a genetic test eventually. Won't that be great?!

Hemangiosarcoma | Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard

I know we sent them a sample of Grim's blood and his pedigree for that.

We have to find and take advantage of as many of these studies as possible, even if it costs us a little money (In my case it was only about $5 for shipping as they only needed a clot tube)

http://www.modianolab.org/studyInfo/Modiano Lab Wish List April 2013.pdf

Dog Diseases | Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard

----

It must be pretty far back as my 3 dogs who had it did not have much recent pedigree overlap.

Toby was west german show and czech 
Cyra was west german working
Grim was Czech / DDR


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I guess the hard question in all this is IF an ethical breeder were to realize there was a high rate of hemangio in the dogs that this breeder were hypothetically producing, what ought that person do? By this I mean if more than the occasional dog seemed to die of H, and there were a discernible pattern that started to emerge, like the family Lee sketched out above...what then?

Does one stop using dogs in that line _just in case_ it's _possibly _genetic? Keep using them if they otherwise produce really outstanding dogs, and accept that the risk that some of the offspring may die suddenly at 7-10 years old, but some won't as it may have an environmental trigger? 

The excellent breeders here, like Lee, aren't immune from the heartbreak of losing a very loved personal dog to this wicked disease, so I know it's a worry that hits close to home for many. Any thoughts on this dilemma?


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

It has always been known as the " German Shepherd cancer". I remember reading an article years ago that suggested over 30% of GSDs die from Hemangiosarcoma. 
It is more common in this breed but overall, I think there has been an increase in all cancers in dogs. That's just from my observations as an owner of a dog boarding facility.
Plenty of articles online about it.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

cancer , and increases in cancer rates in golden retrievers is massive.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

I've always suspected the higher incidence in GSDs is due to a level of immune weakness within the breed.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Vandal said:


> I've always suspected the higher incidence in GSDs is due to a level of immune weakness within the breed.


I agree. All cancers represent a failure of the immune system to combat them. This is why mushroom extracts seem to have such a profound effect on cancer, not because they do anything to cancer cells directly, but because they have a profound impact on the immune system. I give my dogs mushroom extract simply as a precaution. We rarely get sick, no dog has ever had any allergy to anything (they act as immunomodulators).


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Mushroom extract??? where do you get that and the info?

Hemangio is so common....and as many say, it might take environmentally or immune system issues to trigger....My male had other health issue, and pannus, in particular, I know has affected his mother, grandmother and other progeny and grandprogeny of theirs....

Unfortunately, the common denominators in these pedigrees are dogs who are so widespread I would say they are within 75% of the GSD working pedigrees out there....but I have seen H in dogs without those common genetics as well..I doubt there is a family of dogs who have not been affected by H in prior or peer generations....

Is it early nutrition? I fed Pro Plan starting out, then switched to Solid Gold, then Canadaie and Eagle Pack and now to Earthborn grain free....is there a risk because of GMO grains in the food.? No way to know .......But you can't just throw out every dog for breeding who is related in even 1 or 2 generations to a dog who was lost to H.

Lee


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

there are so many assaults to the immune system

you can look at human studies with residential development near power lines and now radio cell towers (radio and microwaves)

we have exposure to chemicals never known before in human history and those chemicals are growing.

my geneticist friend , senior research scientist specializing in genetics - feels that the answer is in epigenetics , the adaptation of gene expression to outside influences , environment and food/nutrition pesticides , herbicides etc. 

Gene expression -- all possibilities for ever -- with an ON switch and an OFF switch . Something has gone terribly wrong and the ON switch is activated too many times.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> Mushroom extract??? where do you get that and the info?
> 
> Hemangio is so common....and as many say, it might take environmentally or immune system issues to trigger....My male had other health issue, and pannus, in particular, I know has affected his mother, grandmother and other progeny and grandprogeny of theirs....
> 
> ...


I get mine from Aloha Medicinals Inc. | Organic Medicinal Mushroom Health Products and am also growing my own of those same 6 species.

There is also "I'm Yunity" which is just one of the 6 species, and they are actively involved in studies treating H with mushroom extract


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I did not know that about the mushroom extracts, thanks for sharing that bit of info.


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