# GSD X Mal Cross?



## GSD LVR

Has anyone seen a GSD bred with Belgian malinois?


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## WVGSD

Yes. I actually met a local policeman with a GSD x Malinois cross in his police cruiser. They were at my local feed store.


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## Catu

I've seen some and I've liked them, but as with any outcross results can be rather unpredictable to any extremes, so I don't consider the little I've seen any kind of parameter to account for.


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## JakodaCD OA

Nicky here has one


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## Del's Mom

One of my neighbors has one. He just looks like a small gsd that is basically one color but the nose is smaller. He is high energy and very dominant over my gsd. But he is really cute!


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## wolfstraum

I knew of a litter specifically bred for police work....none of them made it there and all ended up in pet homes as breeder was not prepared to raise them all to a year to sell them....extremely driven but somewhat nervy dogs - mali sire was ultra aggressive but the 2 I knew as adults had personality more like the GSD dam with an edge - one was a super OB and agility dog - got an ILP to show....

Lee


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## holland

Saw one once-it was actually kinda of good looking-don't really like the looks of mals-just saw it working in protection -and it worked well-it was being sold to an experienced working home


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## GatorBytes

I am not 100% sure if Gator is GSD/Mal x.
I got him at a yr. old, was an accident between father - Saddleback GSD who I met, the mother was at another location temp. as she was in heat and they didn't want another accident....The woman showed me a pic. of her and she looked Mal....BUT, I was told she was a Dutchie.

Doing searches online I had read that some believe Dutch and Belgian are the same breed just called dutch because of brindle markings.

I was at the All about pets show and asked a dutch/belgian breeder what my dog was likely - although he looks mainly GSD, his fair colours Mal...was told may be dutch but with a recessive gene.

I went to the breeder/trainer initially and told him where Gator came from...he told me G's mother was the offspring of a two Brindle Dutch...

He gets darker in the winter and at times and certain angles I can see brindling in his face.

When I am asked "He's a GSD and what?"...I now just say Belgian, because nobody knows what a dutch is"

From what I have read on here about maligators...he sure fits that description too...lol

Regardless, I love him:wub:


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## trudy

this is a cross that ruins both breeds, like poodle crosses this creates mutts, too many purebred, well bred dogs are dumped in shelters, we don't need more mutts nor new doodle breeds. If you want a Belgian get one, if you want a German Shepherd get one, there are enough options in the pure breed world without intentionally making more mutts.


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## wildo

Are there breeders that really know what they are doing that are crossing these dogs? This could be the answer I've been looking for. Do the dogs typically stay small, fast, and driven?


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## Liesje

Why not just get a Mal? Most of the male Mals I've seen at SchH/people I know are actually just as large/heavy as my male GSD.


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## wildo

Nevermind. The Mal x GSD is ugly! Why would the Mal's cream color dominate the GSD's generally dark color?

Just realized GatorBytes posted a pic of her dog. My statement above was in reference to a google image search. Her dog looks better than anything that came up...


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## GatorBytes

wildo said:


> Nevermind. The Mal x GSD is ugly! Why would the Mal's cream color dominate the GSD's generally dark color?


Did you just call my dog ugly?!!!:shocked:


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## Liesje

Most of the crosses I've seen have been really ugly (but I suspect that is also because the parents were ugly and these were BYB type breeders or oopsies). I've seen some REALLY pretty Mals, really dark like a red sable GSD. I bet they'd make a pretty cross.

As for Mals and Dutchies, I think in some places they are basically the same? I know someone who went back to NL to get some puppies and basically if they came out black or brindle they were called Dutchies and if they came out fawn and black they were Mals, same litter.


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## wildo

Nope! See my edit (which I _just_ caught in time) :toasting:


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## Liesje

Gator's dog looks GSD to me, at least the head, which is important to me as far as looks


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## wildo

I agree. Her dog looks GSD to me also. The images from a google image search of "german shepherd malinois cross" are weird, ugly things. Gator looks very cool, not weird at all to me.


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## GatorBytes

wildo said:


> Nope! See my edit (which I _just_ caught in time) :toasting:


Whew!...I know we have same blunt posts, but!!!!...LOL
I feel better


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## cliffson1

These mixes are more popular in Holland and in sports like KNPV. They are also seen as police or military dogs on occaisons....99% of the time this type of breeding is for work as opposed to beauty.


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## lhczth

cliffson1 said:


> These mixes are more popular in Holland and in sports like KNPV. They are also seen as police or military dogs on occaisons....99% of the time this type of breeding is for work as opposed to beauty.


:crazy: That's for sure. Most I have seen are pretty darn ugly, but super for police work.


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## GsdLoverr729

I dunno, I kinda think this guy's cute xD


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## Blitzkrieg1

I like .

If the mix produces a medium dog with drive, tenacity, agility and speed tempered with trainability and a measure of intelligence I'm all in. 

As someone already said I think you would see expressions ranging from one end of the spectrum to the other with this cross especially if both parent's pedigrees where not studied and matched well. 
Keep back the best pups, breed them and repeat. Perhaps you would end with a dog thats has the better characteristics of both breeds and less of the downsides. As in more drive then the typical GSD, less sharp then a lot of mals and less hip issues then are common to GSDs.

Lol again this is all pie in the sky and it would take plenty of time to make that work not to mention a lot of experience breeding and matching dogs. Might make a fun retirement project for someone..


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## Catu

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I like .
> 
> If the mix produces a medium dog with drive, tenacity, agility and speed tempered with trainability and a measure of intelligence I'm all in.
> 
> As someone already said I think you would see expressions ranging from one end of the spectrum to the other with this cross especially if both parent's pedigrees where not studied and matched well.
> Keep back the best pups, breed them and repeat. Perhaps you would end with a dog thats has the better characteristics of both breeds and less of the downsides. As in more drive then the typical GSD, less sharp then a lot of mals and less hip issues then are common to GSDs.
> 
> Lol again this is all pie in the sky and it would take plenty of time to make that work not to mention a lot of experience breeding and matching dogs. Might make a fun retirement project for someone..




Not necessary . It would be ideal, but genetics don't work that way. There are two ways to get results in breeding, one is selection where you keep only the best, basically what you described and was the beginning of today breeds, and the other is Outcrossing, which works with the effects of Hybrid Vigor. Then you NEED two different breeds, each with different strengths to mix each other and obtain a final "product" that with charactereristics that can't be reproduced by breeding each final cross to the other.

Think of the Broiler chicken you eat. There is nothing as a Broiler breed, there is a mix of four different breeds that originate grandmother lines, then mother lines and finally the chicken on your dish. The way those 4 breeds are crossed get even entirely different result if you use them in different ways, either as mother lines or as father lines. In the same way, given you are using the same lines of each breed, there is the possibility that if you cross a Mali female with a GSD sire could give you different pups than vice/versa


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## bitoy

That is a beautiful dog.


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## Nickyb

You calling Zoey ugly???
No I dont agree with cross breeding, stick to one or the other. In my case, I adopted Zoey.


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## Nickyb

hmmm just reread my comment and it seemed a bit harsh lol I meant everything in a joking manner.

If you are looking into breeding and are looking for information on breeding a gsd x mal, I highly recommend not to do it. If your just wondering what they would look like, Zoey is an example, but they ALLLLL look completely different. Crossing the breed doesn't mean you'll get a designer breed that will generally look the same in every occurrence like a Jug or a labradoodle (sp?)


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## TrickyShepherd

I have, a few times.

At training, we also work the police K9s. About 3 months ago, we had a new guy join us with his new partner that was imported from Holland. He's a Mali/GSD cross.

His body looks Mali, his head is a bit more GSD looking (but proportionate), his eyes have the GSD look but with the intensity of the Mali, his coat is a basically the same as a tight/short coat WL GSD, and his color is dark sable. He's smaller too... about 65lbs at around 24". Easy to carry, fast and agile on his feet. He doesn't miss anything.

The litter was bred for Police and Military dogs. I have to say, it's not normally a mix I'd really look at, but this dog is awesome. He's got the gentle nature of the GSD when not working, but when it's time to gear up.... he's a force to recon with. What makes him even more awesome is the fact that he takes the intensity of the Mali WITH the stability and loyalty of the GSD. He's literally the best of both breeds, which equals one heck of an awesome working dog.

Not saying I would suggest this mix, and I really have no time invested in researching them.... I've just seen a few nice ones here in my training group. I'm sure though, it could also be playing with fire. The worst of both breeds put together in a litter of 8-10 would be the apocalypse.


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## TrickyShepherd

Nickyb said:


> You calling Zoey ugly???
> No I dont agree with cross breeding, stick to one or the other. In my case, I adopted Zoey.


She's adorable!


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## BlackPuppy

The NADSR had a whole litter of GSD/Mal puppies (7). The father was working in law enforcement, I don't remember if the mother was anything special, but the "breeder" was hoping to make a lot of money. He sold exactly ONE. Luckily he surrended them all to the rescue. I went to look at them to possibly take one home, but they were huge and one of them bit my dog. I left empty handed after letting my own dog down by not protecting him. 

The pups were very pretty. They had the fawn Malinois color with black masks, but had the rear angulation of a GSD. They could easily pass for a purebred GSD. 

It's too bad that people just breed dogs without thinking ahead what is going to happen to them. Not to mention the weird looking dogs that come out. Most people don't want an ugly dog even if it can "bite". I'm talking mostly about the Pit Bull/Herding mixes. Ugh! 

And, one more time, there is an actual breed called Dutch Shepherd (Hollandse Herder), that does not come from Malinois. The people with the mixes don't want you to know that. (They both evolved from the same general population of farm dogs over 100 years ago, as did the GSD. But with the exception of some interbreeding to renew the blood after WWII, they are not breed with Malinois, and do not look like Malinois. They are smaller, longer, have a different head shape, and different temperament.)


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## SukiGirl

Suki is a GSD X Mal and I happen to think she is beautiful :wub:


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## MadLab

""""


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## MadLab

I believe Bart Bellons dog Thor is a GSD X Mal. I haven't seen a better trained dog yet. What do you guys think of his dog?


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## jmdjack

BlackPuppy said:


> And, one more time, there is an actual breed called Dutch Shepherd (Hollandse Herder), that does not come from Malinois. The people with the mixes don't want you to know that. (They both evolved from the same general population of farm dogs over 100 years ago, as did the GSD. But with the exception of some interbreeding to renew the blood after WWII, they are not breed with Malinois, and do not look like Malinois. They are smaller, longer, have a different head shape, and different temperament.)


I am no expert on malinois or dutch shepherds, but I have done a bit of research on them. In reference to the statement above, there is a distinction between the pedigreed or FCI Dutch Shepherds and the "unpedigreed" KNPV Dutch Shepherds. Here is a link that describes the difference: http://www.vankamphuis.com/dutchiehistory.pdf It is the KNPV dogs that seem to be in demand by law enforcement and military. The difference in KNPV lines is that a "malinois" is fawn colored and a dutch shepherd is striped. It is also not much of a secret that several different breeds have been folded into some dutch lines at one time or another. I have seen references not only to GSDs, but to Dane's and pits among others. 

I have no personal experience with malinois or dutch shepherds. However, a couple years ago I went and observed the protection phase of the K9 trials for a local police department (fairly large metropolitan department). These trials draw teams from all over the west and Mexico, so there was a fairly large sampling of dogs. There were significantly more malinois/dutch shepherds than GSDs. 

This was a real eye opener for me. Without getting into too much detail I will say this: the KNPV "mutts" were impressive and really stood out! Thus, the crossing of breeds is not always a bad thing - depends on the goal and the execution.


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## cliffson1

Like I said, this is usually done to produce pups that will be looked at for working purposes. It's a blue collar thing, and not usually bred in U.S.


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## BowWowMeow

Rafi is either a pb mal or a mal x gsd. Someone dumped him out in the country and a nice guy took him in. I adopted him from the guy. He was about 1.5 years old then. I have been told by mal people that he is pb but who knows...

He's is so handsome that people often stop their cars to comment on him. He is super smart, extremely biddable and handler focused, very athletic, always ready for action, friendly with people and appropriate with other animals. He is not for the faint of heart--he responds well to a clear, consistent, strong leader who uses positive reinforcement. He is an absolutely amazing dog. I have nothing negative to say about him.


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## Catu

cliffson1 said:


> Like I said, this is usually done to produce pups that will be looked at for working purposes. It's a blue collar thing, and not usually bred in U.S.


What means "blue collar"?


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## Liesje

"Blue collar" means working class where as "white collar" would be wealthy. So I'm guessing a "blue collar" dog breeding would be one that is strictly for providing working dogs, not show dogs or pretty dogs to be sold for large amounts of money.


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## hunterisgreat

A club member has one


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## CeCe

One of my dogs is often assumed to be a german/mal mix. I don't have her papers so I'm not sure but several people who claim to be knowledgeable about shepherds have told me that she seems to be a mal mix







.


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