# Is my gsd puppy quarter percentage wolf?



## zenapup29 (Oct 4, 2014)

Hi I have a gsd puppy turned 15 weeks; apparently the mother is 50% timberwolf /50% German Shepherd and the father is pure bred gsd , I really don't know where that leaves him how percentage he would have if it's true. My puppy has been excellent, been training and responds to every command and loves to sleep in his crate. Wondering if he does have some wolf in him is there any advice? One thing I have realized we have another gsd she is a year old filled with enegry all he does goes for the legs or necks sometimes it's play other times may be a bit rough. But that's all I have seen thinking probably a puppy phase I corrrvt him if he does it too hard. His teeth are sharp; another thing I realized his nails/claws are charcoal grey color;when he was 7 weeks they were mostly white. Now all dark grey. Eyes seem to be turning amber.Thank you for reading.Tell what do you think? Picture is the mother; interesting she looks color of shepherd but has some features.


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## zenapup29 (Oct 4, 2014)

Here some pics of my puppy different stages of growth. I love him. He is an amazing puppy best one I have ever known.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi, I wouldn't do anything different. IMO crosses that are not F1 (a litter from a pure wolf and pure dog pair) are usually less "wolfy" with the Timber's. At 25%, you will probably see some differences but they won't be that noticeable to others. I think the final eye color is dog dominant on the 25% or less with a GSD cross. You may see the difference in vocalizations, pacing or digging out little "dens" all over your yard when he gets older. They are escape artists too so make sure your yard and fence is adequate. 

I had a 50% F1 and didn't treat him any differently diet wise 
than a GSD once he turned 7 months old. I got him when he was just 21 days old. He was on a formula (bottle) for 10 days and then we started introducing the pulverized chicken necks in his feedings. He ate nothing but raw chicken necks from 2 to 7 mos. 

He was also a timber. Timber's look more dog in body structure. The tundra's are the pale lanky ghosts. Timber's are darker to blend in with forest surroundings and bulkier. 

Mine was pure gray with blue eyes until about 3-4 months old, then the nails darkened, eyes turned brown and all the wonderful coat colors started coming in. The coat may look like a regular shepherd's coat but be super soft to the touch. Anyway, enjoy the changes and take tons of pictures. You'll have a much better idea about the physical features in the next 8 weeks or so. 

One of the fun things to do is pull up a sound bite on wolf howls and see how your pup responds. You might to be able to video his first howl


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

To be honest, there's almost no way of telling. There are dogs that act wolfy and look 100% dog, and then there are dogs that act doggy and look like a wolf. With mixes, it's almost impossible. People will tell you that you have a wolfdog when you don't. People will tell you that your wolfdog is all dog, when it isn't. DNA testing has been proven to not be accurate from all of the research I've done.

Selling a dog labeled a "wolfdog" has become a HUGE scam these days. People with wolfdogs think they are special, or that their dog is special and better than just a normal dog. It's a selling point to draw interest, and 90%+ of the time, it's also a lie. The "wolfdog" is actually a pure dog. Maybe there is some Malamute or Husky mixed in if you go back far enough, just enough to give a GSD some wolfy traits. I know, as I've been dealing with this for 5 years now with my Beowulf. I'll never be able to prove that he has wolf in him, but most signs have been pointing to "yes!" If he has wolf in him, he is a low-content. He has a wolfy look, but so do many northern breeds. He behaves very much like a wolf in many ways, but all of these behavioral characteristics can also be found in individual dogs. The fact that he has so many wolfy behavioral characteristics all wrapped into one dog makes me wonder.

I was told Beowulf was 50% wolf, but he isn't. So-called wolf experts will be divided, telling you your dog has or does not have any wolf in him at all. There's really just no way to know, so trust your instincts and love it like a dog, but watch for those wolfy behaviors and know what to do when the time comes. I haven't faced too many challenges with Beowulf, but he certainly does or doesn't do things that are common in my other 3. He's definitely "special" in every way, and he has become my inspiration to study everything related to wolves and wolfdogs.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Meant to add some pics of my Beowulf (the cream and reddish dog) with his pack:


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## zenapup29 (Oct 4, 2014)

He has some characteristics, its interesting; he will go up to people but if a dog is barking while we are walking he starts walking behind me as if he is scared. He is a very independent; but I love him; Like I see something in his face that is different like when i look at it I see not gsd; Its hard to explain. His eyes are starting turn amber with some green; and his paws are huge. Well I will be sending pictures of him growing up so stay tune. I was just curious about it; he is my dog I will love him forever; he was not advertised as a wolfdog either. Thank you for the inputs and the information. 

@Counter your dog is absolutely stunning thank you for sharing some pics


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I read an article this week from Fish & Game. Their research has shown that at least 95% of wolves in the wild have some dog in their ancestry. So, it's odd that they can "see" dog in the wolves genetics but not wolf in a dogs genetics.??

I had mine many years ago (79'-93'). We became friends with a couple from Minnesota. He was a wildlife biologist for the State of Minnesota. We spend many happy days at their wolf compound out in the country. They were very happy to share their knowledge with us. We would go there on lazy Sunday afternoons and more often than not end up laughing, talking and eating wonderful mexican food (with a few Corona's). This is who we got ours from. 

(Bill) worked with David Mech who's work - also as a biologist you may know. He showed us an article that Field & Stream did on wild wolves (specifically a very large subspecies known as "The Buffalo Wolf" which featured David & Bill's work. I actually got to meet a 140 pound gorgeous male "Buffalo Wolf" that belonged to David that Bill was keeping safe for him at his compound. None of the 5 wolves were tame, all in their own separate 1/2 acre enclosures (wooded - each with real wolf size den) with very tall electrified fences.

One of the things Bill taught us to check if you suspect a dog has a good degree of wolf content is the precaudal gland area. It is a "scent" gland located on the top of the tail about 2 inches from the base. In wolves and higher content crosses, this gland more developed and is covered by solid black, course and slightly longer fur. It is quite noticeable visually with the higher content GSD crosses.(no need to go digging around the poor dogs business endlol) I'm not sure about the Northern breeds (they may have this in all dog since they are closely related).


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

well if you want to know for sure...

UC DAVIS DNA test for wolf dog hybrids

Wisdom Panel 3.0 detects wolf and coyote DNA


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

voodoolamb said:


> well if you want to know for sure...
> 
> UC DAVIS DNA test for wolf dog hybrids
> 
> Wisdom Panel 3.0 detects wolf and coyote DNA


I would not do this. #1 would it register if there were as low as say 1% (probably). #2 If you do this test, UC Davis site mentions that wolf-hybrids are illegal in most states, that test won't do anything but tell you if there is some (no percentage) and it will make you liable as an "expert" record shows documented proof and could be used against you if your dog even scratches a person that wants to sue. UC Davis tests are used by LE and the court system for this very thing...

It won't tell you what you want to know and it could cause problems down the road.....


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

A few years ago I was told that the UC Davis test was the most accurate test out there. More recently, I've been told that the test is not accurate at all, so I have steered clear of it until I do more research. Wolf Haven Sanctuary in WA state offered to do the test for free for Beowulf to ease my wondering.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

counter said:


> A few years ago I was told that the UC Davis test was the most accurate test out there. More recently, I've been told that the test is not accurate at all, so I have steered clear of it until I do more research. Wolf Haven Sanctuary in WA state offered to do the test for free for Beowulf to ease my wondering.


Yes, probably so. A year ago, I read on a UC Davis article that the test was the best available but not 100% reliable. Me thinks they are taking in a lot of money from the "possible" hybrid owners. $120.00 a pop, could be getting a tidy sum from this new revenue source. I am still betting they are a ways off from determining any percentage from 1% to 85%. But, I'll bet it's a cash cow for them. 

I still wouldn't do it though, trap....


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

*Beowulf*

I could believe that this dog is a low content hybrid. But like the owner said, lots of scamming, lots of lying.


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## zenapup29 (Oct 4, 2014)

@thecowboysgirl

Yes it is very possible could be false or he has low content , I do believe though he has some traits just by the way he acts sometimes,he is only 4 months he is still growing. Alot of people actually ask me if he is mixed or he doesn't look purebred. Which I believe that myself something about him looks different. His eyes are green mixed some blue and light brown; just getting lighter altitle at a time. I will always love my pup either wolf mix or not, he is so intelligent. Love to see his growth delevlopment went to the vet 2 days ago, he weighs 36 lbs.


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## zenapup29 (Oct 4, 2014)

Here is Barrett just about 21 weeks old, already out growing our 1 year and 4 months gsd she is a petite girl. He weighs about ranging 55-60 lbs. Weighed a few days ago he was 55 lbs his height was 24" so I don't know how much he weighs or his height now. His eye color had changed drastically light brown & light green glow to them, sometimes they seem grey but they are not if you look close it's light green outside of the core and around is light brown. His tail is turning grey color, I will try to take better pictures of his eyes and his tail. He has already lost one Canine tooth and many others too have fallen out all been in august. Probably at 6 months all his adult teeth will be growing in. He has grown so fast. Can wait to see what growth has in store next few weeks. I thought I show some pictures updates.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Would you be awed and mystified and oh so mysterious is he were 1/4 wolf?

If so, - if that floats the bubble - yea, maybe so - how extraordinary Just feed him treat him like a regular dog. Little or zero bering on raising. You have a dog - not a wolf - stop romancing the wolf..... Unless you have over 3/4 wolf - just treat them like dogs and get ready to rehome, because you were chasing disneyland.....


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> ...because you were chasing disneyland.....


I like that!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I think he looks 100% purebred, except for the grey eyes! Very unusual!


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## zenapup29 (Oct 4, 2014)

No worries I treat both of them as dogs; I love them both they are my babies!! I just thought I show some pics of him growing up.


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## Malachi'sMama (Jun 10, 2013)

I can def see the timber in his mother. those longer legs...very characteristic. He's beautiful regardless. 

Counter, what gorgeous pics!! And what a good lookin' pup!!:wub:

About ten years ago, I had the pleasure of working with a 75% timber wolf named Dominic, mixed with I believe malamute (I don't recall). He was a magnificent animal. The eyes have a very 'wild' look to them. Yellow, intelligent, piercing...As sweet as he was, his presence alone was intimidating. He could 'stand' and put his front paws on top of a 6' fence and easily look over it. There was no walking him on a leash, that's for sure! He was very loving, though. He would stare sometimes like he was imagining the way my face might taste haha...While I didn't understand the purpose of mixing wolves and domestic dogs...it was a neat experience, regardless. 

I wish I had a better photo of his face, unfortunately, I lost most of them. To put in perspective, I am 5'9, not a small girl..but he made me look tiny!

Like Stonevintage said, if your pup is a hybrid (which I personally believe he is low content) I wouldn't treat him any differently than any other dog...He shouldn't require any different training or food, etc just bc he has some wolf in him. If he were high-content (which would be pretty apparent I would think) then it would be a different story. The higher content hybrids are still very wild in many ways.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Malachi'sMama said:


> Counter, what gorgeous pics!! And what a good lookin' pup!!:wub:


 Thank you! He is the inspiration behind my change of career path, now focused strictly on wolf conservation through wildlife biology. I plan on owning 1 GSD and 1 wolfdog (rescues) at a time until I'm too old to manage large breeds. I want to be surrounded by wolves and wolfdogs until the day I die. Beowulf is that beginning...


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm not really understanding all these "does my dog have wolf" posts on a german shepherd forum. I think people here can make a pretty good guess if it's purebred or not, but for identifying any wolf content in a dog you'd be better off asking the people on wolfdog facebook groups.

A mid content will normally look undeniably wolfy with fairly equal dog and wolf traits. It's not a great picture, and it's only one, but I think the mother was misrepresented as higher content than she is. The legs and feet are the only thing that look wolfy to me. So she could have content but she doesn't look like a mid from this picture. 

This is my puppy at 6 months who is a low content.


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## Blondi's Revenge (Jan 31, 2015)

so the mother is 50 percent timberwolf/50 percent German Shepherd
the father is 100 percent German Shepherd


. . but you don't know where this would leave your dog percentage-wise? :help:


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## Malachi'sMama (Jun 10, 2013)

Blondi's Revenge said:


> so the mother is 50 percent timberwolf/50 percent German Shepherd
> the father is 100 percent German Shepherd
> 
> 
> . . but you don't know where this would leave your dog percentage-wise? :help:


lol I overlooked that somehow...


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## Malachi'sMama (Jun 10, 2013)

counter said:


> Thank you! He is the inspiration behind my change of career path, now focused strictly on wolf conservation through wildlife biology.


LOVE this! Fascinating field! ...I have a book that NEARLY pushed me into wildlife photography (WOLVES!) It's called 'Brother Wolf'. The photography is incredible (your photos sparked that reminder!). Check it out, you won't be disappointed. 

I would love to talk to you about your work...but I'll spare the rest of the forum!

Best of luck to you and Beowulf!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Malachi'sMama said:


> LOVE this! Fascinating field! ...I have a book that NEARLY pushed me into wildlife photography (WOLVES!) It's called 'Brother Wolf'. The photography is incredible (your photos sparked that reminder!). Check it out, you won't be disappointed.
> 
> I would love to talk to you about your work...but I'll spare the rest of the forum!
> 
> Best of luck to you and Beowulf!


I'll PM you.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Enjoyed all photos such -beautiful dogs. The momma to your pup has such long legs!!! What beautiful eyes your pup has!!!


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## zenapup29 (Oct 4, 2014)

Yes I believe he is a low content; but doesn't matter to me I love him he is my pup, keep updating on pictures tomorrow he turns 5 months! I have a picture I just took with my camera took pic with my phone when I can I'll post better quality one. He has grey green and light brown. Thank you for everyone's replies and sharing photos.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

This is a very "wolfy" thread and I hope it continues Perhaps we can flip the thread to - where I see the wolf in my wolf/dog? and stop trying to verify and judge....

There are many things I would like to share about the differences in behavior when you've had one with you for over 13 years. I think it would be fun for us experienced and also educational for those "considering". 

The good and the bad please....


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## zenapup29 (Oct 4, 2014)

@Stonevintage

I totally agree!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

zenapup29 said:


> @Stonevintage
> 
> I totally agree!


Cool! Well, here's a couple to start....

Mine had a well grounded female GSD/Am Strat (this was B4 bullie dogs 1979). Apparently, at some point during the day when he was 4-5 mos old, he just had to find out why one part of the couch "squeeked" when someone sat on it. We were young and just starting out and were "renting" the furniture from a place called Grantree. Thankfully, they made us a good deal on the buyout and the damage was covered by one pillow we never moved....

One more - we decided to tear out a 2 level wood deck that my husband had built out our back door 5 years earlier. At this time, my wh was about 4 years old. The weather where we live had just destroyed it's looks. He and a friend dismantled most of the deck, leaving my husband to take off the parts adjoining the house foundation; he came in the house and said "you have to come out and see this" and he was gone out the back door. I put outside shoes on and went out and couldn't see him - we had a rather small backyard. I heard him say "I'm down here" OMG - I turned around to see a large hole just beside our old porch steps (that were underneath our deck) to see him standing in a room size "den". It was about 10 feet long by 5 feet high by 8 feet wide. Lining it and absolutely packed into and made part of the walls were various blankets and throws I had put out during the years. I assumed they got dirty and my husband had thrown them away. 

That explained when I called them sometimes and they did not come to the door right away.... they were underground in their den! The den ran right under the kitchen. We had to hire a company to bring yards of fill to take care of the problem before we could have the company come pour the concrete patio slab. By their age at that time, it was no loss to them, they got to stay inside and have run of the house while we were at work. THIS a wolfy thing that we were not aware of. He never dug holes in the yard - he had something much bigger going on.....


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