# Losing hope with my 6 month old demon



## AthenaClimbs

I think I'm losing my mind. I cried earlier today because sometimes it feels too much for me. My girl is six months. She jumps up and bites me. EVERYDAY. She doesn't attack me or growl. She has no aggression towards anyone, anything or any dog. She jumps up and bites because she's excited and appears possessed. I get it but sometimes it hurts so much and I can't calm her down. To the point where it hurts so much that I cry because I get so overwhelmed.

Before you jump down my throat. I train her everyday, everyone in the household does. We practice NILIF. She has to be released to eat, go out, do commands to play, ANYTHING we try to make her work for. She's well exercised. She gets an 1.5 hr a walk in the AM followed by an hour in the park, same routine when we come home from work. My mom is home with her throughout the day and she takes her out to potty and does basic commands with her. She's been in puppy class, we just finished with a personal trainer and she's well socialized.

My fear is if this excitement continues I can't bear it everyday. Sometimes I can't take it and stick her in her crate something I always tell myself not to use as punishment. I strongly believe we're doing everything right, there are people less experienced than I with GSD and they're so well behaved (and they didn't even have this forum to turn to!). 

Does anyone sometimes feel this way? Sometimes I hear about people talk about their pup's adolescent stage, that they stop listening to commands, forget everything, become rowdy but she's fine with all this. But I just can't tolerate the constant biting. We did redirection, time outs, screaming NO and OW but that just fuels her excitement. My parents say I don't tug on the leash hard enough to correct her (that I'm too soft with her bc I love her; maybe they're right) but I don't want to hurt her. They say that I give her too much love and my life revolves around her and that's why she sees me as a litter mate and not her superior.

Sorry for the long rant. It's been such a long night and my arms ache SO BAD and my eyes are still watery. I don't know what to do.


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## CarrieJ

Ok, take a deep breath, calm down and go to your happy place. Are you there yet? Good. 
Are you the only person in the house that she does this with?

I can give you a few tips. You have an exhuberant landshark with no manners towards you. 
Try to avoid putting her in her crate as a correction for unwanted behavior.

When she jumps and mouths you. Do not say anything, no yelling, nothing....just grab her jaw.
Grab her lower jaw. Not hard, you DO NOT want to cause harm. Put your thumb between her lower canines and hook your index finger beneath her jaw. Hold it, move with her until she somewhat settles down. Then release her. Hold your hand out to her if she mouths it again, grab the jaw again (think like a trout). Hold your hand out again, when she licks it.....Praise the heck outa her. 
Once she learns not to mouth you and you find it unacceptable but, she'll still jump on you. Because.....wait for it......She's a dog, a highly trainable but very young DOG. She can't process both things simultaneously. Work on the mouthing first. Then the jumping.
Consistantly, with jumping: EVERY person who lives with the dog must do exactly the same thing; turn your back and look up. Don't pull your arms up just turn around and look up. Don't speak English to her, she's a dog. 
If you hear someone say "Down" smack them, that's the lay down command not a OFF command. *sorry pet peeve* If you hear someone say "no jumping" in a higher pitch voice. Smack them (the humans not the dog) The higher pitch and volume can create excitement/frustration in a young dog; at best you give a positive tone for bad behavior. 
My girl was such a jerk at that age that instead of more training for her I almost took vocal lessons to learn how to modulate my voice without raising the volume.

My other half loves to play "Police dog" with my girl and she's four but he never did it when she was an adolecent. It created too much excitement. However, there are a few times where I have to remind her that I AM NOT DAD. *sigh* A boy and his dog.
Good luck and hope that made sense.


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## qbchottu

Let me just say that I went through the same pain with my puppies. Butthead stage is hard to get through sometimes. But you will be so glad that you did. I reached a breaking point some days, but I am so glad I stuck through. It has gotten a lot better. Keep at it!


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## doggiedad

1>>>> "are you crying, there's no crying in
German Shepherding".

2>>>>> keep training.

3>>>> i read "when your dog isn't doing
what you want you have to stop and ask yourself
what am i doing wrong"?

4>>>> i never feel that way. i don't believe in the adolescent
stage or the butthead stage. i believe in the "keep training
your dog stage" and the "i'm not training my correctly stage".

may be you should find another trainer???



AthenaClimbs said:


> 1>>>>> I think I'm losing my mind. I cried earlier today because sometimes it feels too much for me. My girl is six months. She jumps up and bites me. EVERYDAY.
> 
> 2>>>>> Before you jump down my throat. I train her everyday, everyone in the household does. We practice NILIF. She has to be released to eat, go out, do commands to play, ANYTHING we try to make her work for. She's well exercised. She gets an 1.5 hr a walk in the AM followed by an hour in the park, same routine when we come home from work. My mom is home with her throughout the day and she takes her out to potty and does basic commands with her. She's been in puppy class, we just finished with a personal trainer and she's well socialized.
> 
> 3>>>>> I strongly believe we're doing everything right, there are people less experienced than I with GSD and they're so well behaved (and they didn't even have this forum to turn to!).
> 
> 4>>>>> Does anyone sometimes feel this way? Sometimes I hear about people talk about their pup's adolescent stage, that they stop listening to commands, forget everything, become rowdy but she's fine with all this.


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## Snarly

Yes, I agree with this. Most look at me wierd when I suggest it. However what I do is I wrap my hand around the bottom of their mouth so that my fingers and thumb are slightly in their mouth (on each side). I squeeze just a tiny bit enough to just barely make them whine, they do not like that whatsoever. I've done this with every dog and have NEVER had a puppy mouth me after that.



CarrieJ said:


> Grab her lower jaw. Not hard, you DO NOT want to cause harm. Put your thumb between her lower canines and hook your index finger beneath her jaw. Hold it, move with her until she somewhat settles down. Then release her. Hold your hand out to her if she mouths it again, grab the jaw again (think like a trout).


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## chelle

Athena, ma dear... do take a breath and look at this from the bigger picture.

Ok, so it sounds like this girl is getting her socialization and exercise requirements very well met. Ok, check. (good job!)

So, now, let's look at your reactions. Or perhaps, lack of? reaction? 

When she jumps up and is bitey, *what do you do?* You said it is not aggressive -- just excitement -- and that's GOOD IMHO. Really good. That can be dealt with! The other poster gave you ideas on that and I'll probably get a firing squad focused on me for saying this, but a well placed knee as the dog is jumping up can be very effective. No, I do not mean hurting the dog. I certainly don't mean knocking it halfway across the living room. I just mean to say that as the dog jumps up, you stick your knee out so it hits them in the chest just hard enough to put them back down, along with an "off" command.. or whatever command you wish. (but don't use "down")

When you give commands, what tone of voice do you use? Is it high pitched or low and authoritative? A dog knows when you mean business and the tone of voice means *everything.* I mean, you can say, "you're such a good boy!" in a low, serious voice and the dog will react to the voice over the actual words. What does your *voice* convey?

Grabbing the jaw is one idea and sounds worth trying. Again, I'll invite the firing squad by saying if I couldn't redirect the bitey stuff (different dog) with a toy or something to stuff in their mouth, then I literally stuck my finger down the dog's throat. Sounds pretty cruel, I know, but it was sure effective.

Athena, this dog is your child. (Do you have any children?) Don't be afraid he won't love you anymore. Don't be worried you'll lose any affection. You won't. In fact, you'll gain something far more important -- his respect. He'll be a happier dog knowing just what his limits are and you'll be a more confident owner. 

Hang in there 

PS - Stock up on some good chewies... when you're frustrated and don't want to deal with it, give your pup a good chew. You'll get a break, the pup will release a little tension and you can go back to the regularly scheduled program.


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## AthenaClimbs

Thank you everyone. My arms looks like that of a poor abused victim.
Firstly, I have to say I'm guilty I treat her as somewhat my child (I have none) and I felt my maternal instinct kick in the moment we got her. 

I want to mention that the only time she jumps on me is when she wants to bite at my arm/leg/hand, etc. She never jumps at me for no reason (unless it's when she first sees me which then I just try my back to her say sit then she does and I praise her) that part is not so much the issue. 

She does this with everyone in the household (my mom and dad) but to me the most and hardest. I believe this is because I interact with her the most. I train her, show her love, engage with her and molded her basically. My dad insists on harsh punishment (hitting her with a a paper) and my mom flips out correcting her on the leash).

I will try the jaw and knee bit. It will be hard, the moment my hand is out near her mouth, she's in full bite mode, which is incredibly frustrating. But I will learn to stay quiet while I do this. I have been known to yell very high pitched. 

She's so hard to deal with, I wonder where I went wrong. I really fear that this is something that will stay with her her whole life and then I won't be able to take it anymore. I really worry that I might fail her and I don't want to.


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## RocketDog

You are her favorite, therefore her favorite plaything. Don't give up.  You'll get through this. Chelle's post was good, so was Carries. Rocket is not so bad anymore, just once in a while a 'driveby' bite, but the other day, I was carrying the cat in to have some "socialization" time, and Rocket jumped. He frickin clawed my side. He NEVER jumps. He tried once more, and I NEVER have struck a dog. Any dog. I don't use physical punishments. But you better believe, my side hurt, and I stuck my knee out and HE rammed into it--not me ramming him. And guess what? He laid down and did NOT jump again. 

Keep a chewie on you AT ALL TIMES. Don't let it off your person. Stick it in your back pocket. EVERY SINGLE time she bites, stick it in her mouth. Take heart--someone just said on here in the last day or two, something about driving the pup to the breeder's in the middle of the night and tying them to the doorknob on days like this. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. In two years, you will look back at this and laugh.


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## BowWowMeow

I have a very high energy, excitable malinut. From the moment I brought him home (at age 1.5) I stuck a toy in his mouth when he got excited. He used to jump straight up in the air and snap in my face when it was time to go outside or go for a walk. He also used to grab his leash and try to drag me all over the place. And he would maul me when I came home. However, within just a few days he learned to transfer his excitement over to a rubber ball or a tuggie or a stuffy and now the first thing he does when he gets excited is to find a toy to put in his mouth. In fact, as you can see in my avatar, he carries a ball absolutely everywhere with him. 

Try substituting your body for a toy every single time. Praise the heck out of him when he has the toy. It shouldn't take long for him to catch on. I've done this with every single one of my dogs and it worked every time.


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## AthenaClimbs

Rocketdog, reading your post turned my watery eyes into watery eyes of hope. I really hope you're right. And thanks all for giving me hope. I'd be lost without this forum. I'm so glad to hear I'm not alone.


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## AthenaClimbs

What are some of your dogs' favorite chew toys? Athena has a few but she gets bored with them quickly.


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## qbchottu

Nylabone, Kong toys, bully sticks, filled Kongs and Cuz balls are big hits with my dogs


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## chelle

Bully sticks, girl, bully sticks. Preferably the kind that don't stink. You'll get a solid half hour of peace from a bully stick. Go get one!


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## AthenaClimbs

bully sticks are our saving grace in our household. We have the antler elk sticks, which she loves. But I'll try to stick them in her mouth every time she jumps. I've never heard of Cuz balls. I'll get one!


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## qbchottu

My dogs LOVE their Cuz balls. For some reason, they only love the medium Cuz balls. It's slippery, super durable, squeaky, chewy and bounces in a crazy way. Wiva will amuse herself with a Cuz for hours. Here's Wiva with her favorite Cuz. Look at that giant smile. You couldn't ask for a better endorsement!


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## RocketDog

The rope floss toys, the "unstuffed" fox, Rocket LOVES those. Also, I found some great frozen "soup" bones at my Albertsons (grocery). They come in deep frozen, and I keep them frozen. It's really helped, because he gets to "chew" GOOD. He doesn't actually eat the bones, or break them, but he chews every little bit of meat left on them and sometimes the marrow. 

I carry the rope floss tug frequently, so we can have an impromptu play session whenever.


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## The Packman

*removed by moderator* ...but I would keep a rolled up newspaper handly and when she acts up hit her on the snout while saying _bad girl !_ After a few wacks she would probably get the message !


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## PaddyD

The Packman said:


> *removed by moderator* ...but I would keep a rolled up newspaper handly and when she acts up hit her on the snout while saying _bad girl !_ After a few wacks she would probably get the message !


Rolled up newspaper whacking went out with rubbing nose in poo.


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## jetscarbie

ugh...I feel your pain. I have a kangaroo dog, too. I swear, he won't do anything without jumping. He always goes for the arm. Mine mostly does it when he's super excited.

I like the advice others gave you...I'm gonna try that. I was turning my back on him and ignoring him...but that didn't work. He thought that was a game which would make him jump higher up my back.


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## PaddyD

jetscarbie said:


> ugh...I feel your pain. I have a kangaroo dog, too. I swear, he won't do anything without jumping. He always goes for the arm. Mine mostly does it when he's super excited.
> 
> I like the advice others gave you...I'm gonna try that. I was turning my back on him and ignoring him...but that didn't work. He thought that was a game which would make him jump higher up my back.


Mine was real bad at that age, finally outgrew it.
She is 2+ now and recently started jumping again but she doesn't make contact. It's almost like she is trying to give a kiss but missing every time. She does it so quickly and unexpectedly that I can't catch her in the middle of it.


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## LaRen616

I think you need to exercise her more, tire her out! Make her so tired she crashes for a couple of hours.

What kind of mental stimulation does she get?

Malice gets a meal and some treats in her Tug-A-Jug, she plays with and chews on her Everlasting Funball, she can chew on the Everlasting Treatball for hours and we play "find it" games with treats.

"A tired puppy is a good puppy" seriously.


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## AthenaClimbs

Jetscarbie, I know what you mean! I also tried turn around and ignore her. She now jumps up towards my back, bites anything she can see, even my groin and butt!! I can't ignore that

LaRen - plenty of mental stimulation. We play find it every other day. Basic training and now we're taking basic training up a notch (more advanced; longer periods, etc). Play fetch. Did just get your toy suggestions. Hopefully it will help.


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## LaRen616

AthenaClimbs said:


> LaRen - plenty of mental stimulation. We play find it every other day. Basic training and now we're taking basic training up a notch (more advanced; longer periods, etc). Play fetch. Did just get your toy suggestions. Hopefully it will help.


Just so you know, she needs lots of physical and mental stimulation everyday not every other day.

She needs to be tired out everyday.

Our puppies are the same age. I dont know what lines your puppy is but mine is Czech/West German Working lines. She has a TON of energy, she needs to have something to do all the time or she will be naughty or destructive.

Do you have a friend that has a puppy or a young dog that is friendly that you can meet up with everyday to run your puppy's butt off?


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## Anthony8858

I recently watched an episode on "it's me or the dog" about your issue.

Here's what they did:

It took a few people to do the exercise.

Keep Athena on a lead in your home. Have someone hold her in a normal manner, and go about their business. It would help to have the pup in the vicinity of your front door.

YOU will be outside your door. You will leave the room for a while, and let the pup settle into something besides waiting for you.

You will enter the room in a normal way. I'm going to assume that Athena will get excited and jump on you. It's up to the handler to make sure she doesn't have enough leash to get to you. Enter the room, and walk in her direction. As soon as she makes the first attempt to jump towards you, .. without saying a word, make an abrupt u-turn, and go back out the door. No expression, no comments, nothing.

Wait a couple minutes, and re-enter the room. If Athena gets too excited, and attempts to jump on you, turn and walk away... back out the door.

Keep doing this with all members of the household.

Sooner or later, she'll make the connection, that jumping on people, loses her chance of saying hello.

Ask me how I know this works? 

When my family enters a room where Kira is, I made a strict rule, that under NO circumstances are they allowed to greet Kira. Whether she's loose or crated. If she's loose, she's loose because someone is watching her in the room. Therefore, someone is there to get her attention away from whoever entered the room.

When guests come over my house, I tell them NOT to greet my pup. I call her away from the guest, and attempt (work in progress) to put her in her "place". After my guests settle in, I call Kira over, give her the sit or down command, and allow her to be petted.
She gets her sniffs, gets her pets, then walks away to whatever she was doing.

I hope you try this method. It's very simple, and it worked for me.


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## JakodaCD OA

I agree with LaRen, MORE exercise..as in hard running around exercise. The jumping/biting to me at this age, is frustration/attention seeking behavior. 

She's 6 months old, even tho your training every day, what FUN is training for a 6month old, especially if you overdo, right now she wants to be a crazy dog..

I would definately up your exercise and mix up your routine, take her to new places , find a fenced in area, (like high school fields) and let her race around.


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## Dainerra

I agree with the people who are suggesting more exercise. The amounts you are describing would be just enough to get Singe going at that age! He'd be even more hyper when he came in than before we started. Especially the walking part. A walk isn't exercise for a dog - it's just a warm up for exercise.

Now, Monday, it was snowing and DH was home from work. He took the dogs outside and threw snowballs and let them run around. All together, it was about 3 hours or so. They played "find it" in the snow. Singe tried to catch snow flakes and tried to find them on the ground when they landed (sometimes he's a bit special). The 2 dogs played chase. They played tag. They played fetch. They acted like total hooligans. Then when I came home we had training time.

I went to give Singe his dinner and couldn't find him. He was crashed out in the living room asleep.


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## bianca

I just wanted to say I feel for you, I remember being in tears because my pup was like no other I had ever had before. She was so bitey (is that a word?) it drove to me distraction. This stage will pass and you have been given loads of great advice.

I'm getting another pup in under a week and hopefully I will be better equipped to deal with all the 'fun' puppies bring with them :rofl:

Good luck


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## sashadog

Dainerra said:


> Singe tried to catch snow flakes and tried to find them on the ground when they landed (sometimes he's a bit special).


Love this!! My girl does the same thing with snowballs and I crack up every time  

And to the OP, keep up hope  Like Rocketdog said, in two years this will be a funny story to tell at the dinner table. But on that same note... thank you for reminding me why I'm not ready for a puppy again


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## AgileGSD

Have you worked on the drive building and use in training? Impulse control? If you look at other posts here, you'll see this is an extremely common thing for GSD puppies. You need to offer an outlet for her desire to bite and play rough games while working one teaching her to channel it into things you find more appropriate. Impulse control is important for all dogs but especially for dogs who's owners are having the sort of issues you are. More exercise is not going to teach her these things.

I think putting her in a crate or expen or confined to a hallway or other small area here and there throughout the day, preferably with stuffed food puzzle toys such as KONGs or Busy Buddies or raw bones is important as well. It is important she learn to settle down while you're doing other things and that you aren't going to be available to entertain her 24/7. I prefer expens for this and these videos talk about the advantages of using expens to teach puppies to have good house. The second video talks about the basics of "crate games" type work with the expen for impulse control (not letting the puppy out of the pen until he sits calmly). This is very much how I've raised my last two puppies:











A bit more about tugging, drive satisfaction and impulse control:
"Another benefit that a lot of people may or may not be aware of is drive satisfaction. While it is debatable whether there even is such a thing, I believe dogs do have certain inherent drives that should be satisfied in the dog. Some of these drives include pack drive, food drive, play drive, etc. Along this line of thinking, I do believe that some dogs have a desire to bite and play tug. We see this more so in some dogs than others. For example, consider when your watching a litter of puppies. The puppy who swings the tug toy around by himself or engages with another dog probably has a higher drive to bite (or what may be termed "fight drive"). This has very little to do with aggression towards people or dogs. Some dogs are simply more content when they have a toy in their mouth."Tug of War

"The goal of all motivation training is to teach a dog that when we put him in drive (motivate him) he must control his drive if he is to get drive satisfaction. When the light bulb goes off in the dogs head that this is the game you play you will see the dogs self confidence improve and he will start to try and figure out what it is you are trying to teach him when you introduce him to new exercises in the learning phase of training." Leerburg | The Theory of Motivation in Dog Training

"Dogs are predators and scavengers. They need an outlet for exercising their instincts. The predatory sequence is eye, stalk, chase, grab/shake, and beyond that kill, eat. The game of tug-of-war keeps the sequence at bay, trained properly, to grab/shake. It is a satisfying experience for the dog and can be a very good training tool. A healthy outlet for natural prey instincts is to understand that the key is to play the game with rules. 
Drive satisfaction. 
For high-drive dogs it is and can be rewarding to play tug-of-war. Some dogs have higher drives than others. Genetically dogs display certain drives depending on breed or mix of breeds. Herding dogs love to chase, bark, and are prey driven. Sporting dogs naturally hunt, point, flush. Drives need to be satisfied, whether it is a guard drive, food drive (scavenging), play drive or other natural drive. Tug-of-war satisfies a need to use the mouth in a pulling manner. Satisfying drive can be valuable in training and motivating a dog. Canine teeth are made for pulling, tugging." Why dogs like to play tug-of-war - by Diane Garrod - Page 2 - Helium


"

I’m of the opinion that most dogs who have highly arousing jobs (herding dogs, hunting dogs, police dogs, performance dogs) must learn how to work while in drive mode. Border collies learn that they must have some impulse control around stock, that they cannot bull rush every herd they find and that they still need to respond to the shepherd’s cues. Uncontrolled drive is dangerous… dogs get trampled by stock, dogs risk getting hurt diving into unsafe waters, dogs launch off of a-frames, dogs blow through barbed wire fences, etc. Or, if you are like me and play disc with your high drive dog who is lost in drive, ignores a cue, and instead of doing a nice back-vault rams into the back of your head at 20 mph, it’s dangerous for the _person _involved (a dog training accident is a _lame_ excuse for why one has a low-grade concussion–just say’n).
One of my go-to ways to start teaching dogs to respond and have impulse control while in drive is to use tug. It’s an arousing game and one that often really taps into a very high level of drive with many dogs. I want my dogs to respond to any number of cues while in drive while tugging. Tugging sets the foundation to proofing behaviors for very arousing or distracting situations, teaching dogs that even when on a mission, they still need to respond, and also builds an incredible amount of impulse control." Tugging for Training… | Success Just Clicks



"Here's how I teach very basic impulse control.
I show the crazy dog a treat, briefly, and then enclose it in my fist. The dog will probably attempt to poke it free, nudging my hand, pawing at me, nipping, and barking. (I usually start this exercise myself, as most clients don't have the experience to trust where this is going!) The average crazy dog is active and will not pause in his quest, but _will_ actually pull back as if to pounce again. Right then, I click that quick movement and open my hand, delivering the treat or letting it drop to the floor. Then I repeat the process. Most dogs are backing up within a half dozen repetitions, though some take longer if they've been reinforced for obnoxious or pushy behavior. It's also possible to do this with a tug toy, but, in any case, practice your technique in advance—accidental nips and grabs are no fun!" How to Train a "Crazy" Dog! | Karen Pryor Clickertraining


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## sashadog

Silly question but popped into my head while reading this post and the advice given...

When a puppy jumps up for attention and bites at its owner and is essentially just being all around obnoxious and rude and then gets a yummy chewy or a fun toy to get them to quit, isn't that rewarding the jumping and biting? Or is it just a puppy behavior that basically you just have to get through however you can (toys and chews) and they'll eventually grow out of it? 

I've never had a GSD puppy so this a purely innocent question, please don't jump down my throat...


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## Niya

AthenaClimbs said:


> I think I'm losing my mind. I cried earlier today because sometimes it feels too much for me. My girl is six months. She jumps up and bites me. EVERYDAY. She doesn't attack me or growl. She has no aggression towards anyone, anything or any dog. She jumps up and bites because she's excited and appears possessed. I get it but sometimes it hurts so much and I can't calm her down. To the point where it hurts so much that I cry because I get so overwhelmed.
> 
> Before you jump down my throat. I train her everyday, everyone in the household does. We practice NILIF. She has to be released to eat, go out, do commands to play, ANYTHING we try to make her work for. She's well exercised. She gets an 1.5 hr a walk in the AM followed by an hour in the park, same routine when we come home from work. My mom is home with her throughout the day and she takes her out to potty and does basic commands with her. She's been in puppy class, we just finished with a personal trainer and she's well socialized.
> 
> My fear is if this excitement continues I can't bear it everyday. Sometimes I can't take it and stick her in her crate something I always tell myself not to use as punishment. I strongly believe we're doing everything right, there are people less experienced than I with GSD and they're so well behaved (and they didn't even have this forum to turn to!).
> 
> Does anyone sometimes feel this way? Sometimes I hear about people talk about their pup's adolescent stage, that they stop listening to commands, forget everything, become rowdy but she's fine with all this. But I just can't tolerate the constant biting. We did redirection, time outs, screaming NO and OW but that just fuels her excitement. My parents say I don't tug on the leash hard enough to correct her (that I'm too soft with her bc I love her; maybe they're right) but I don't want to hurt her. They say that I give her too much love and my life revolves around her and that's why she sees me as a litter mate and not her superior.
> 
> Sorry for the long rant. It's been such a long night and my arms ache SO BAD and my eyes are still watery. I don't know what to do.




This is easy, show her you are the alpha and set boundaries. My dog is my world, I love her to death but if she doesn't listen to me, sh*t goes down haha. That's why she knows her place, if she tries to do something I don't like, I will jerk the leash till she listens or focus on me. It might sound cruel but she doesn't get hurt or anything. I'm just letting her know, I'm the big dog and you will obey me.


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## catz

sashadog said:


> Silly question but popped into my head while reading this post and the advice given...
> 
> When a puppy jumps up for attention and bites at its owner and is essentially just being all around obnoxious and rude and then gets a yummy chewy or a fun toy to get them to quit, isn't that rewarding the jumping and biting? Or is it just a puppy behavior that basically you just have to get through however you can (toys and chews) and they'll eventually grow out of it?
> 
> I've never had a GSD puppy so this a purely innocent question, please don't jump down my throat...


Ya know, I wonder about that too. My girl was a very mouthy puppy, I followed all the tips on this site and she stopped all biting behaviours at about 8 months old (those tips were a life saver) but I wonder if she just grew out of it or was it actually training her not to bite. 
Either way it works but it is a good question.


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## Cassidy's Mom

sashadog said:


> Silly question but popped into my head while reading this post and the advice given...
> 
> When a puppy jumps up for attention and bites at its owner and is essentially just being all around obnoxious and rude and then gets a yummy chewy or a fun toy to get them to quit, isn't that rewarding the jumping and biting? Or is it just a puppy behavior that basically you just have to get through however you can (toys and chews) and they'll eventually grow out of it?


You do need to be careful not to create a behavior chain, where the dog learns that all they need to do to earn a reward is to be bad and then stop being bad.  But that's easily avoided by having them do something AFTER they've stopped whatever they were doing. For example: stop jumping, sit, and make eye contact, THEN reward. Work up to longer calm behavior with a sit/watch for a few seconds before marking and rewarding, and also reinforce those "good" behaviors heavily _outside_ of training them to stop jumping on you. 

Puppies do need to be taught to do something other than biting you, that's what they know about playing from how they interact with their littermates, but it's not appropriate with humans. So we teach them that it hurts us, and that play stops when they do it, and we show them how we would like them to play with us instead, by redirecting them onto a toy, and engaging them with it. And as in the paragraph above, engage them with a toy at other times too, when they haven't been using you as a chew toy. Otherwise you're going to teach them that the best way to get you to play with them is to bite you, lol!


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## Heidimom

I know exactly how you feel! When Heidi was about 6 months old, she was a terror. She was destructive in the house and outside! She pulled the cable TV line off the house and chewed it up! I finally made my husband build a 10' x 10' kennel outside. I took Heidi to obedience class, walked her twice a day, played with her, etc. Finally she grew out of it. I think I put her in the kennel about 5 times. Heidi is now 18 months old, we got rid of the crate, and we all adore her. There is light at the end of the tunnel!


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## AthenaClimbs

First, I want to say thank you to everyone. It comforts me that I am not going through this alone. I often wonder how people can love their dogs so much when mine is biting me every day to the point where no one can touch my arms because they're so bruised up. I feel for the past couple of months I've been emotionally and physically drained. 

I will try all of your advice. Holding the jaw down firmly though not hurting her is ideal but she always wiggles out and bites when I do that. I can't even get to her jaw without her snapping at me. 

I will put a toy in her mouth EVERY time (but try to get her to sit beforehand) so she doesn't associate the behavior with a reward. 

Also, she's getting plenty of physical and mental exercise. I would love to do more but how can I? I work every day! My dad walks her in the AM for 45 mins-1hr, I then jog with her to and from the park where she plays off leash with other dogs for an hour. This is everyday. We're also notching up basic obedience to more advanced (longer intervals; tricks, etc). 

Sorry for going on this rant, I just can't help but cry sometimes how exhausting and painful it is. My biggest fear is that she just wont ever "get it". Plus, she's only 6 months and I have a gut feeling it will only get worse.


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## Stella's Mom

Just today I was mentioning to my husband that we seemed to get through the puppy stage of our girl fairly easily. That I would actually do it again....She is now 10.5 months old.

Reading your post, and some others here, maybe we just got a low key girl and got lucky...


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## sashadog

Cassidy's Mom said:


> You do need to be careful not to create a behavior chain, where the dog learns that all they need to do to earn a reward is to be bad and then stop being bad.  But that's easily avoided by having them do something AFTER they've stopped whatever they were doing. For example: stop jumping, sit, and make eye contact, THEN reward. Work up to longer calm behavior with a sit/watch for a few seconds before marking and rewarding, and also reinforce those "good" behaviors heavily _outside_ of training them to stop jumping on you.
> 
> Puppies do need to be taught to do something other than biting you, that's what they know about playing from how they interact with their littermates, but it's not appropriate with humans. So we teach them that it hurts us, and that play stops when they do it, and we show them how we would like them to play with us instead, by redirecting them onto a toy, and engaging them with it. And as in the paragraph above, engage them with a toy at other times too, when they haven't been using you as a chew toy. Otherwise you're going to teach them that the best way to get you to play with them is to bite you, lol!


Gotcha. Thank you for the clarification!! So timing is important to remember, as usual


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## Freestep

Cassidy's Mom said:


> You do need to be careful not to create a behavior chain, where the dog learns that all they need to do to earn a reward is to be bad and then stop being bad.  But that's easily avoided by having them do something AFTER they've stopped whatever they were doing. For example: stop jumping, sit, and make eye contact, THEN reward.


This.

To the OP: I feel your pain, I really do. Your pup is only 6 months old, she has a lot of maturing to do, and it will definitely get better. Puppies do grow out of the bitey stuff. My pup is almost a year old, and she doesn't mouth us anymore, but there were a few months where we simply couldn't touch her without getting bitten! It is frustrating, but this too shall pass. Just stay consistent with training and exercise, and eventually you will see your hard work paying off. I fully expect puppies to be absolute monsters until they are about two years of age.  Breathe, and use the crate when you're at your wit's end.


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## Cassidy's Mom

AthenaClimbs said:


> Holding the jaw down firmly though not hurting her is ideal but she always wiggles out and bites when I do that. I can't even get to her jaw without her snapping at me.


If that doesn't work for you, I wouldn't keep trying it. Some pups get more worked up if you get physical with them, which would make this method counter-productive. Try something else.



> I will put a toy in her mouth EVERY time (but try to get her to sit beforehand) so she doesn't associate the behavior with a reward.


At this point, with her still that bad about biting you, I wouldn't even worry about it, I'd just have toys everywhere and cram one in her mouth if she is in a bitey mood. If you can't get her to stop biting, you're probably not going to get her to sit first.

Puppies are a PITA, that's the dirty little secret that nobody tells you in advance - how much work they are. They're fun too, I love puppies, but they are NOT easy. I have found that by about the age your girl is now, it usually starts to get easier, but that's just my experience.


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## onyx'girl

> Originally posted by* AgileGSD*
> A bit more about tugging, drive satisfaction and impulse control:
> "Another benefit that a lot of people may or may not be aware of is drive satisfaction. While it is debatable whether there even is such a thing, I believe dogs do have certain inherent drives that should be satisfied in the dog. Some of these drives include pack drive, food drive, play drive, etc. Along this line of thinking, I do believe that some dogs have a desire to bite and play tug. We see this more so in some dogs than others. For example, consider when your watching a litter of puppies. The puppy who swings the tug toy around by himself or engages with another dog probably has a higher drive to bite (or what may be termed "fight drive"). This has very little to do with aggression towards people or dogs. Some dogs are simply more content when they have a toy in their mouth.Tug of War


I agree with this! Tug is a mental exercise along with physical. Though I know your pup is still teething so tug is not recommended, next month get back to tugging. I like a two handled french linen tug and the dog doesn't have free access to it. When your pup is jumping up on you, turn it into a training opportunity because the dog is asking you for interaction(even though she's going about it inappropriately) 
After teething, I think you'll see a change in the mouthiness, but I really think a good game of tug(while asking for positions and behaviors) is very rewarding for the pup.


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## chelle

AthenaClimbs said:


> ,,,,I want to mention that the only time she jumps on me is when she wants to bite at my arm/leg/hand, etc. She never jumps at me for no reason (unless it's when she first sees me which then I just try my back to her say sit then she does and I praise her) that part is not so much the issue.
> 
> ... I have been known to yell very high pitched.


Another thing with the jumping.. you could have her drag a leash around the house. As soon as you think she's getting ready to jump up, step on the leash. She won't get too far off the ground. :laugh:

And on that yellin' stuff  - don't yell. Voice low-toned, firm and authoritative. Loud if needed, but never high pitched yelling. Sounds too panicky. (And what is your state of mind when "yelling" that way? Frustrated, upset? That's my expert diagnosis. :rofl: Your dog is not dumb and he knows when you've been driven to that state because you're out of control, or feeling poweless. He knows that.) Now, I could be completely and totally wrong here, but I'm feeling philisophical all of the sudden.

Could you possibly swing a private trainer? Maybe they can work with you to give you better ideas and point out whatever your weaknesses may be? I found that to be the best benefit we got out of our first class -- being shown where I was being inconsistent when I didn't realize it at all.

Bruises heal, scratches heal, dogs grow up. Hang in there.


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## jennyp

I can't tell you how many times I've cried out of frustration with Brody! He's almost a year now and I still get overwhelmed at times but he's a thousand times better than he was at six months. I think his mouthyness stopped or definitely slowed down a lot at that age so hang in there! What does your trainer tell you to do when she does that? I remember someone suggested in another thread of yours to have her drag the leash indoors. My trainer also suggested this and IT SAVED MY SANITY!! I'm serious, it gave me control in situations where I would have otherwise run out the door screaming. Try it, and when she jumps or bites give a good quick pop. It seems mean I know but be confident, you won't hurt her. She'll get it eventually if you stay consistent. Go put that leash on!!


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## katdog5911

I have a 6 month old "Stella" too. She can get mouthy when over excited. I end the game or whatever and gently rub her belly while telling her "don't bite the mommy". She LOVES belly rubs and most of the time will lay down and relax. When this doesn't work I leave the room and take a break. Although I do recall having several meltdowns in the past. It has gotten better....I hope it stays better!!! Maybe my Stella is just a mellow GSD. Even my trainer said she is the calmest GSD she has ever seen. 
She gets a run every day....if not twice a day. I also put her in doggie day camp once a week for about 4 hours. And obedience class once a week. I know when she has not had enough exercise she is IMPOSSIBLE!


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## Chasegsdlove

You may have to be rough with your Shepherd my 5 month old German Shepherd Chase bits alot too (he is also losing his puppy teeth too) but sometimes when he does something wrong I'll scuff him (grab him by the scuff of the neck) or I have a prong collar and I pop him with the prong collar


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## Cassidy's Mom

This thread is from 2011. The OP isn't active on the board anymore.


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