# Breeder vs Vet



## huskers10 (Jul 29, 2013)

my 7 month pup has been limping lately, took him into the vet. Vet put him back on puppy food and said he'll be fine, tendons just need to grow and it won't be a long term issue. My breeder said he needs to be on adult dog food. Any help with this? I just want my pup to be healthy.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

My vet says to put GSD puppies on adult food and if they are on a puppy food make sure it's a large breed puppy food. They really push to have them on adult food though.


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## huskers10 (Jul 29, 2013)

well i had him on eukenuba large breed but my vet said to put him back on science diet large breed puppy food. idk wtf to think


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

the breeder had my puppy on eukenuba large breed puppy food. I recently switched him to natural balance original adult food. You just don't want them growing to fast. When they grow to fast they can get pano.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

science diet is crap and your vet sells it....

I spent 4 years in vet school working while ex went through - Hills does tons of stuff for vet students....so they sell alot of Hills SD - some of them like kidney diets are necessary...

I would never ever feed SD to a healthy pup.....your breeder is right - get a good quality adult food - not SD, not Eukenuba (not much better imo) - Fromm, Earthborn, Blue Buffalo, Natural Balance, Arcana, Merrick - A GOOD food!

Lee


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've never fed puppy food to my dogs. did the Vet say your dog
has pano?


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## AugustGSD (Mar 29, 2013)

I have always had mine on ALS food since I bought him home at 3 months old. I've heard of staying away from large breed foods due to the possibility of too much growth too quickly though. However, I don't think this is true for all large breed foods (this is where knowing what is healthy, and doing some research on brands comes into play).


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

my puppies are always on adult food.


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

You really want to look for a lower protein food to keep growth slow, if you are feeding a quality diet it doesn't matter if it is puppy or adult food as long as you don't have high protein. Try to stay in the 20s for protein, like 27-29%. And yes, yes, yes to everything Wolfstraum said! I spent a lot of time researching food because I worked at a pet food store that was very very strict about the food they sold. Eukanuba is pushed by breeders because they have a "breeders program" where they buy X amount of bags and they get X amount of bags for free. And the vets sell SD because of what Wolfstraum said Good luck!


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## Oisin's Aoire (Jun 17, 2013)

A quality food ( not Hill , Eukanuba , or anything like that) in either all life stages , adult , or large breed puppy is fine. I did Blue Buffalo Wilderness large breed pup..but it gave him runs. Then I switched to taste of the wild adult and he did great on it. Now he has been on a BARF diet for 2 months and he is still doing fantastic  

Just stay away from the supermarket brands . Most vets push Hills because like PP said they are often educated by Hills and they often sell it in their office. Some vets are a bit " Hills Indoctrinated" .


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## huskers10 (Jul 29, 2013)

well Earl is doing better with his limp since going back to science diet lamb and rice. BUT he itches like crazy. Went to the pet store and bought a vitamin supplement for him but that hasn't helped after a 10 days. Any spray or anything I can do for him?


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## huskers10 (Jul 29, 2013)

also my breeder really pushes nuvet vitamins, does anyone use them?


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

huskers10 said:


> also my breeder really pushes nuvet vitamins, does anyone use them?


no, the only time my vet suggested, not pushed, food was when my puppy ate half a dried pepper from the garden and got bloody diarrhea. She suggested I feed him a canned food that was easy on the digestion until he got better. It was not science diet. With that he was on a probiotoc gel to put good bacteria back in his system. This was given orally, pills to help firm his poo up and an antibiotic. 

This has nothing to do with the above, but thought it should be mentioned. Shortly after switching the puppy to natural balance I had to put him back on eukanuba large breed puppy food. He had pudding butt. I switched his food back and he was fine. I consulted with a vet and was advised to switch his food when he is 7 to 8 months, but do it really slow. 1/4 of a cup new food for a month, 1/2 of new food for another month and so on. I told him I had tried to switch him adding the food in slowly and he said some shepherds have sensitive systems and when I switch to add the new food in even more slowly. I have a couple of months before I need to worry about that though.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Feed your GSD pup a quality adult food and find another vet.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

huskers10 said:


> well Earl is doing better with his limp since going back to science diet lamb and rice. BUT he itches like crazy. Went to the pet store and bought a vitamin supplement for him but that hasn't helped after a 10 days. Any spray or anything I can do for him?


Yep...get him off Science diet, its crap. Pricey food that costs the manufacturer pennies to produce. So much in that food that is probably irritating your dog. Several good suggestions have been made here...get one of them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It depends on the breeder, and it depends on the vet. 

Think of it this way, a vet needs to go through 4-6 years of veterinary medicine training. 

A breeder may have decades of experience with her lines. 

The vet learns in this four years, about many different critters,: livestock, pets; mammals, birds, reptiles, fish; dogs, cats, rabbits, hamsters, and the list goes on. There are HUNDREDS of dog breeds out there, and dogs can be 6 pounds or 240 pounds -- there are huge differences.

A breeder has spent her tenure on generally one, maybe two or three breeds, unless it is a puppy mill that is pumping out puppies of whatever varieties are selling. This means that her experience with her breed, her customer's dogs, training dogs, club members dogs -- all of them the same breed, and breeds have different health concerns, including this case. Her knowledge is specific to the type of dog you have, and is based on hands on experience. And she has a lot of experience with what works for her specific bloodlines. No vet has this information.

A vet also will have experience with dogs. Dogs are probably the most seen critter in veterinary practice. And GSDs are pretty popular. But you really can't expect a vet to be an expert on the specific needs of the different breeds. 

I would take a vets advice over a very inexperienced breeder on most things. 

I would take an experienced breeder's advice on most things over a vet's. 

Go to a quality adult food. It is not just pano that you need to be concerned with. The dog food companies found that when large breed dogs are fed puppy food, they started having structural issues. 

This is because they got it into their heads back when they had cycle 1 - cycle 4, It was the rage to feed your dog a food dependent on its developmental stage. All the food companies jumped on the band wagon, and started pumping calcium into their food and calling it puppy food. Great. Little dogs were fine with that, big dogs not so much. 

So they realized that big dogs had different needs. They pulled out the calcium, added more bulk (which dogs don't need), so reduced the calories of the food, and recommended feeding the dogs tons of food -- this is good for them (the dog food companies), they make more money, sell more food. ++. It is not so good for the puppies. They don't stop there, they charge MORE for this crappy large breed puppy food, with fewer calories, than typical adult dog food. Dog food companies are there for one thing, to make money. They are not in business to make your dog healthy and happy the way the commercials say. They find that putting carrots and peas on the ingredient list makes people feel they are feeding their dog healthy stuff, and they do it whether or not carrots and peas actually are good for dogs. Doesn't matter. All that matters is what sells.

So, you have to educate yourself in how to read ingredients. Just because a product is labeled GSD-24 doesn't mean that it is any better than a good all life stages food. I feed Diamond Naturals. I do not feed their puppy food. GSD puppies do not need puppy food at all. In fact, it is really not good for them.

Dog food's a racket. Large breed dog food = fewer calories/cup + more expensive = ++ for the dog food company = more poop for you and a double whammy on your pocket book.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

Go with what your breeder suggests unless you have a Vet experienced with GSDs. My experience with Vets is that unless they are GSD breeders themselves they may and/or do offer advice that may not be appropriate for German Shepherds. I fortunately have found an amazing Vet who has breed GSDs for 40 years - she really knows her stuff and has published quite a few medical papers. 

One thing she does recommend (and also my breeder) is that you should grow your puppy slowly and definitely put puppy on adult food and limit excessive exercise.

If you puppy is limping, there could be ligament damage and your Vet should have advised you to rest your puppy - no walking or exercise for at least a week to see if limping gets better, if not then you should request another examination or go to another Vet, you may need to xray.


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## huskers10 (Jul 29, 2013)

I have no idea how long the breeder has been doing this but the vet has been around over 30 years and mostly just handles dogs. He has quit limping so thats good. He's currently outside enjoying the snow at 7 months old and 8 lbs


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## huskers10 (Jul 29, 2013)

Harry and Lola said:


> Go with what your breeder suggests unless you have a Vet experienced with GSDs. My experience with Vets is that unless they are GSD breeders themselves they may and/or do offer advice that may not be appropriate for German Shepherds. I fortunately have found an amazing Vet who has breed GSDs for 40 years - she really knows her stuff and has published quite a few medical papers.
> 
> One thing she does recommend (and also my breeder) is that you should grow your puppy slowly and definitely put puppy on adult food and limit excessive exercise.
> 
> If you puppy is limping, there could be ligament damage and your Vet should have advised you to rest your puppy - no walking or exercise for at least a week to see if limping gets better, if not then you should request another examination or go to another Vet, you may need to xray.


He x-rayed and did the whole 9 yards. He suggested rest and a switch to science diet. 

anyway any suggestions for helping with the itch


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

huskers10 said:


> well i had him on eukenuba large breed but my vet said to put him back on science diet large breed puppy food. idk wtf to think


You will hear a lot of good and bad about science diet. I suspect its really rather a middle of the road food. My dog was raised on Science Diet. I had him on the puppy food for a year and then switched to adult. He did just fine on it for 9 years but then I learned a little more about food and switched him to something better. So I absolutely don't think it will hurt your puppy but you can do better if you can afford it.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> anyway any suggestions for helping with the itch


 Well, what did the vet suggest??


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

lol ...I am soo glad my current vet has never pushed science diet never even suggests it


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

wolfstraum said:


> science diet is crap and your vet sells it....
> 
> I spent 4 years in vet school working while ex went through - Hills does tons of stuff for vet students....so they sell alot of Hills SD - some of them like kidney diets are necessary...
> 
> ...


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Agreed!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

doggiedad said:


> i've never fed puppy food to my dogs. did the Vet say your dog
> has pano?


I'd go with my breeder if I trusted them and they'd had a bunch of litters.

I have also NEVER fed puppy food to my GSD's. Long as it's a good kibble (Taste of the Wild? ) they did fine and, BTW grew up big for females (bigger than other females in the litter) so it's more about genetics then the food as far as I'm concerned 

Can't do anything for pano but rest/aspirin so just be careful.


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## huskers10 (Jul 29, 2013)

G-burg said:


> Well, what did the vet suggest??


 
gave him a shot, that didn't help. said we could do blood work if we wanted.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

huskers10 said:


> gave him a shot, that didn't help. said we could do blood work if we wanted.


I'd get him on a good adult food without grains and see how he does. The itching sounds like allergies.

Taste of the Wild is a good food. Bison/Venison is what my dogs do well on.
:wub:


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

try a single source protein food....no grain....some dogs are allergic to beef, some chicken, some even duck or rabbit....go with a lamb or fish food or even vension food....if you can afford it...go to something like Orijen which is high quality. Do not change foods every 2 weeks!!! Stay with one for at least 6 weeks....

vets get ONE semester of nutrition required.....to cover canine, feline, avain, exotics, equine .....the Science Diet is drummed into them at vet school via lots of freebies and grants and sponserships from Hill's.....their specialty foods are just that - diabetic, renal etc...had a cat in renal failure who ate their food for 2+ years.....but for general food - go to a good quality single protein source food.

Lee


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