# puppies from same litter, different prices.



## VALIUM (Nov 15, 2007)

Hi you all. As a new comer, I noticed something. Some puppies from the same litter named as EXCEPTIONAL, COMPANION, ULTIMATE, OR JUST PUPPY. For instance, ultimate puppies are average price of 4500$ or exceptional ones 2500-3500, and normal puppies are 1500$. So, what I understand is I guess some of them have better markings.other than that, what is the difference? temperement? intelligence? schutzund prospects?..Are cheap ones the dumb ones?. Please help me..Thank you


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## Superpup (Jun 7, 2007)

I would continue my research before buying a puppy from this breeder. Are the parents of the litter titled and do they have their health certifications? I doubt -tell me if I am wrong- that a litter would differ THAT MUCH that the prices would be so different. Why would they even consider pricing the pupps like that? also $4500 is a lot of money to pay...
Keep looking!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think I know the breeder you're referring to. . . can't think of their kennel name off the top of my head but they are a HUGE operation. I would not buy from them either.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I completely agree with Paivi!!!! Without a doubt, keep on looking. And just so you'll know the 'cheap ones' are not the dumb ones... when I've noticed a price difference it has more to do with show qualities than anything else. 
Rosa


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Often times breeders who are breeding for a specific purpose, such as conformation showing or work/sport, will have 2 different sets of prices; one from show/work prospects and one for pet quality (IOW, dogs who don't have the conformation for show or drive and temperament for work). Pups with obvious flaws, such as long coats, are often sold for a cheaper amount too.

But those prices are ridiculous. And descriptors like "ultimate" "just puppy" are absurd.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I bet you are looking at showlines not working lines. The 4500 price tag is one that I have seen a fair amount. The 3500-2500 seems to be the norm for a showline pup and very few at 1500.

If all of these prices come from the same breeder same litter, I have a rough idea who it is, big operation. There are some quality showline breeders that have puppies that have a cosmetic disqualification usually a long coat pup, that are normally priced less than their litter mates.


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

Yow. That would make quite a dent in my pocket. 

I recall checking out a breeder while researching for one ... Fleishheim, or something like that ... that was pricing their puppies like that. 

It was according to different grades. I thought it was interesting. How would they know, ya know? At such a young age. It is like looking at a set of infant quintuplets, and saying, Oh this will be a nautical engineer, and that one will be a stripper, and this one will be a cop and bust the stripper-sister, oh and this one with the big toes, he will be a professor of quantum physics ... 

But I am just a dog lover who loves her GSD, and is still learning. They have been at it for a long time, so I better shut my mouth up now.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I agree, pass on that breeder. I think most of us know who that is. 

With showlines, for me it would NOT be a red flag if some puppies were cheaper than others such as long coats or pups with obvious conformation faults, dogs that can never be in the show ring (unless the standard changes). Long coats, dilutes, monorchid, etc. Otherwise "normal" puppies really should be priced the same because it's very hard to tell what puppies at 8 weeks old will mature into at adulthood. The star of the litter may peter out and the so-so puppy may grow to be the showstopper. Same deal for working lines.

German showline pups do tend to be higher priced than working lines. I would not pay $2500 for a working line GSD, but $2500 is about the low end of the spectrum when it comes to German showline, at least from what I've seen. 

When researching online, it is very easy to be wowed by flashy websites, beautiful photos, miles of titles and all the right words. Some of these operations are marketing geniuses. In reality, that's all they may be. I like a breeder who has a goal for their program that does NOT include breeding to the best names and taking two high titles together without regard for the actual genetic/pedigree combination. I want to know WHY the dogs are a good match, how they expect the two pedigrees to come together, what types of pups are they hoping for, what are they looking to improve on, what the faults are, what are they hoping to keep strong, a true plan. You'll run into many breeders who throw around "VA this" and "Champion Ultra Uber Select" that or will parade a certain stud's name up and down the block or breed to the Fad of the Year dog, and that really doesn't do the breed (or the buyer) any good. 

Oh, if a breeder tells you there are no faults, smile and nod as you walk away. EVERY dog has faults and you should be made aware of them and also inquire about them regarding the breeding. Maybe the outside stud dog has really good shoulders but the shoulders of the bitch they own are not so good and this is what the breeding is for- they love the temperament of both dogs but they want to improve the shoulders and are hoping to keep a pup back from the litter. This shows thought and planning and a working breeding program rather than just pumping out puppies from big name dogs.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: The Stig and that one will be a stripper, and this one will be a cop and bust the stripper-sister,


I just shot Cherry Coke Zero out of my nose. That really freakin' hurt. Thanks a lot!


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## VALIUM (Nov 15, 2007)

Thank you guys, got the message, thanks a lot


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

It is known as MARKETING and hitting the mark with buyers who have more money than common sense! The old 'if it costs more it has to be better' status seeker. 

Huge operation. Imports medium quality bred dogs. etc etc etc.

Your money can be better spent elsewhere IMO

Lee


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## Cooper&me (Dec 18, 2007)

My husband almost feel for that when we got our pup. He wanted the BEST, spare no price. PLEASE> I was thrilled he was not restricting my purchase price but it was not my deciding factor. I actually went with the cheaper breeder. LOVE LOVE my pup but if I had spent more time here I would have gone with a different breeder.

I cannot imagine life without my boy but he is not what I was hoping for. Live and learn. 

My point is spend A LOT of time researching and then research some more.


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## extremegiants (Mar 16, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: The StigIt was according to different grades. I thought it was interesting. How would they know, ya know? At such a young age. It is like looking at a set of infant quintuplets, and saying, Oh this will be a nautical engineer, and that one will be a stripper, and this one will be a cop and bust the stripper-sister, oh and this one with the big toes, he will be a professor of quantum physics ...



It's funny that you say that because I was just having a conversation with a Netherlands GSD owner today and she chose the smallest of the litter. 16 months later, that little pup grew bigger and stronger than the rest.....


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## jakobi (Mar 2, 2008)

When I bought Jake he was $350.00. There were 4 black and silver's in his litter which were $450.00 just because of their color. I really think that it all depends on the breeder and if they show and consider any of the puppies to be more show quality or pet quality.


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## jakobi (Mar 2, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: The_Big_Apple
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: The StigIt was according to different grades. I thought it was interesting. How would they know, ya know? At such a young age. It is like looking at a set of infant quintuplets, and saying, Oh this will be a nautical engineer, and that one will be a stripper, and this one will be a cop and bust the stripper-sister, oh and this one with the big toes, he will be a professor of quantum physics ...
> ...


She had good luck! My first GSD was the runt of the litter and I chose him over another male because he was black and tan and the other was sable, which I didn't care for.... he's full grown now (I gave him to a very close friend of mine) and is about the size of a small female.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Perhaps ultimate is code for "one born every minute" , more money than brains, thinking they'll have ultimate because they ponied up for it.

Still gonna poop on the floor until trained not to, but it'll be the ultimate poo, don't ya know!


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## jakobi (Mar 2, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: mjb03My husband almost feel for that when we got our pup. He wanted the BEST, spare no price. PLEASE> I was thrilled he was not restricting my purchase price but it was not my deciding factor. I actually went with the cheaper breeder. LOVE LOVE my pup but if I had spent more time here I would have gone with a different breeder.
> 
> I cannot imagine life without my boy but he is not what I was hoping for. Live and learn.
> 
> My point is spend A LOT of time researching and then research some more.


Good words to live by! I paid $350 for my GSD and I love him to death. He's AKC and off of champion lines and looks just as good if not better than $1200 GSD's of the same age.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:There were 4 black and silver's in his litter which were $450.00 just because of their color.


Bad Sign #1- Breeder charges MORE for coloration considered poor per the breed standard. This is a big red flag. Anytime you have breeders saying things like "rare blues," or "rare silvers" and/or putting higher prices on colors which actually are either a disqualification or very poor color, that's a good sign that the breeder is a BYB. Any breeder that charges more just because a puppy is a certain color is one to steer clear from. I would not mind if a breeder charged more for a pup that was outstanding in most ways- color included- such that it would be a great show potential or good looking and great working potential, but to decide the "quality" or cost of a litter by color? No way. Again, this is marketing. Most people see "RARE" and they immediately think this is some amazing gem that they must have. While blues and livers are drop dead gorgeous in my opinion, they are not really rare and they are not deserving of a higher price tag.

Unfortunately, it's very common across all breeds to sell "rare colors" at a higher price tag. This form of marketing works all too well.


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