# I was thinking...again...;)



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

So Indra is in heat for the first time and some people were wondering why Yukon isn't fixed. 

Well, over here we don't just fix dogs and I just don't like the idea that I have to fix a dog just because other people think it is the right thing to do, plus he still is a working dog and in the beginning of his rehabilitation it maybe would have been very counterproductive. 

So, if against all odds, he is coming around and he is getting titled... would you breed a dog like him? A dog that got abused, managed to come around, is from a great working line and has a very good pedigree?


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

beautiful pups would come! i know that


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

If he is everything a GSD should be as in looks, attitude and working ability then I would breed him, but only if it's to better the breed.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I had a dog from a shelter and no I wouldn't have bred her even if she had had an awesome pedigree and was everything that a GSD should be because I think when you adopt from a shelter there is the expectation that you not breed. So if the dog came from a shelter or rescue then no~if he or she was rescued in a different way then yes


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

IMO - Breeding is the effort to better the breed. Hondo is great. I think he'd make wonderful babies. But, due to his missing toes, he limps. Because he limps I can never title him. I can't prove his worth. So those traits that I think would make him a good stud dog, will only remain in my dreams. I didn't buy him to breed. But, if I could prove his ability to work or show, and he passed all the required hip (etc) tests - then it could have been an option. 

I am in no hurry to alter him. I have no need to. If I purchased a female GSD, and wanted to title her and not alter her, then I'd have Hondo altered. Because I'm basically lazy and it would be easier that way to prevent oops litters. 

If you can prove that your dog is worthy to pass on his genes, i.e. titles & OFA certs etc. then I don't see why breeding isn't an option for you. If you know that the market that you will promote your pups in is one that also protect the breed then I personally don't have a problem with it.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

holland said:


> I had a dog from a shelter and no I wouldn't have bred her even if she had had an awesome pedigree and was everything that a GSD should be because I think when you adopt from a shelter there is the expectation that you not breed. So if the dog came from a shelter or rescue then no~if he or she was rescued in a different way then yes


He didn't come from a shelter. He was bred by my parents and my parents took him back when they found out that he was abused.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

> If you can prove that your dog is worthy to pass on his genes, i.e. titles & OFA certs etc. then I don't see why breeding isn't an option for you. If you know that the market that you will promote your pups in is one that also protect the breed then I personally don't have a problem with it.


His hips were evaluated by the SV and they are perfect. He's got Excellent hips. As for the title. I don't rush. If he's getting it, he's getting it, if not, than not. I do what is best for the dog, not what is best for me.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> His hips were evaluated by the SV and they are perfect. He's got Excellent hips. As for the title. I don't rush. If he's getting it, he's getting it, if not, than not. I do what is best for the dog, not what is best for me.


True, I understand your point. But, as a buyer, how are you going to prove to me that you are different then the run of the mill byb? In the case of breeding, wouldn't it be best for the dog's progeny to have a parent(s) who have been titled as well as passing the required health evaluations? 

Would I be buyng papers then? Going by the dogs lineage and not the actual sire? 

I'm asking, not arguing.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

mrs k, maybe you should post Yukon's pedigree again))


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

If her parents bred him I would also guess that she has knowledge of the working ability of siblings parents etc.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

holland said:


> If her parents bred him I would also guess that she has knowledge of the working ability of siblings parents etc.


I, personally would buy from Mrs. K. What I'm asking is in the event I didn't know (from this site) the breeder. If it weren't Mrs. K......


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Mrs.K said:


> So, if against all odds, he is coming around and he is getting titled... would you breed a dog like him? A dog that got abused, managed to come around, is from a great working line and has a very good pedigree?


Honestly? Probably not. For me it wouldn't be enough for him to "come around". He'd have to come around in a major way and not just title but title WELL. 

IN part because first, he's a male. Stud dogs are easy to come by. I don't know his pedigree, but chances are there are other dogs out there with comparable lines who are competing well and offer all the health clearances also. If I had a bitch I would go to that dog, instead of the dog that took time to come around.

Second, and I'm not trying to make a personal judgement on your dog, but I wouldn't want a dog I'd breed to have to "manage to come around". I'd want him to bounce back very quickly. I have volunteered in shelters for some time and there are always dogs that have been abused...and as soon as they leave the situation they come around...with very little effort because their underlying temperament is very stable and the dog is generally pretty hard and resilient. Now I don't know Yukon's situation and I understand that he would clearly be at a disadvantage compared to a properly raised dog...but I would have to question the fundamental nerve structure.

So again, while I'm not trying to drag you down in regards to the successes you're having getting him to open up, and I applaud your tenacity in working with him. No, I wouldn't breed him. If I really felt that strongly about the dog I'd try and find a brother or half-sibling to use.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> mrs k, maybe you should post Yukon's pedigree again))


This is it:
http://csv.aigou.com/jsp/csvclub/guide/Csvbloodthree.jsp?blood=SZ2158757


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Lilie said:


> True, I understand your point. But, as a buyer, how are you going to prove to me that you are different then the run of the mill byb? In the case of breeding, wouldn't it be best for the dog's progeny to have a parent(s) who have been titled as well as passing the required health evaluations?
> 
> Would I be buyng papers then? Going by the dogs lineage and not the actual sire?
> 
> I'm asking, not arguing.


Well, I guess just the way the pups are brought up can show the difference to a byb or puppy mill. 

His parents are both titled via the German SV and went through breeding evaluation and if I ever were to breed him, both, the bitch and the sire had to be titled and go through health evaluations. 

I guess just the way the place looks like can tell you a lot too. Is it clean, does it smell, are the dogs well fed... healthy etc. etc. etc.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

JKlatsky said:


> Honestly? Probably not. For me it wouldn't be enough for him to "come around". He'd have to come around in a major way and not just title but title WELL.
> 
> IN part because first, he's a male. Stud dogs are easy to come by. I don't know his pedigree, but chances are there are other dogs out there with comparable lines who are competing well and offer all the health clearances also. If I had a bitch I would go to that dog, instead of the dog that took time to come around.
> 
> ...


As a potential buyer, I agree with this. I already have a working line dog with a nice pedigree who has trouble recovering from experiences that upset her.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I would be looking at two things. 

1. What does he offer to the breed? What about him is exceptional? 

2. I would want to know with 100% certainty that his 'issues' are all environmental and not due to a weakness in nerves or temperament. 

BTW, why would you want to fix him? Is he broken?


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

LaRen616 said:


> If he is everything a GSD should be as in looks, attitude and working ability then I would breed him, but only if it's to better the breed.


 If breeding were only so straightforward 

Does the GSD breed need to be improved?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

AgileGSD said:


> If breeding were only so straightforward
> 
> *Does the GSD breed need to be improved*?


 
There is always room for improvement


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

LaRen616 said:


> There is always room for improvement


In what ways would you improve the breed?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Even though I love my big over the standard GSD I wish everyone would breed for the standard and not their own preference. I would like to see very healthy GSD's bred so that we had less GSD's with HD and other health issues. I am not a breeder, never was, never will be. But I would love to see this breed live longer healthier lives. I would like to see the dramatic roach back disappear, it looks terrible and that's not the way the breed was intended to look like.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I think that, until every GSD puppy born meets the standard, there will be room for improvement.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Whose interpretation of the standard?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

how about: each breeder has their own interpretation so, until every pup they produce meets that perception?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Than why have a standard?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mrs K, 

Why not ask your parents what they think. They know the dog and you better than we here. 

If they are established breeders and his breeder, then I would think they would be the people that I would go to for such advice.

Having an intact dog does not equal puppies. Do not let people give you a hard time about not neutering. Neutering is fine for those who want to do it, but it is certainly not something we should do just because we do not intend to breed.


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