# Co owning, your opinion



## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

So I found out that the pup I want to buy will be sold to me as a pet and companion, upgradeable to a breeding potential at the breeder's discretion. She really likes what she sees in his confirmation etc, and he was her pick of the litter. I asked her some questions about the contract, etc. 

The way it works is that he is sold to me as my pet and companion. However she thinks he will turn out to be a wonderful asset to her breeding program, in which case I will be required to keep him intact unless I decide that I need to neuter him. In that case, I am expected to pay for collecting his sperm, and then she will pay to freeze and store it. After that, I can fix him if need be. She will have co ownership but she assures me that this is strictly for the purpose of using him in her program (I am not permitted to breed him myself, but I am not interested in that so that's fine). I pay her full price for the pup, and if he does turn out to be the prospect she thinks he will, and assuming I do not have to alter him (the concern being that unaltered he becomes too much of a handful) she will pay for all of his breeding-related health testing. 

Basically, I am buying him as my pet, but when/if she decides she wants to use him, he is upgraded. I am not responsible for any breeding-related costs except for the collection of his sperm if I decide to fix him.

Thoughts? I think it sounds pretty fair.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Is the co-ownership permanent, or does he become 100% yours at some point?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I would not do it. Sorry. I am not a fan of co ownerships. And you have zero plans to show and compete the dog. Do how can he be objectively viewed as a breeding prospect. 

You are paying full price, but she is retaining a day in his care and future. Not cool. If she was discounting, maybe. But don't charge full price and them tell me that I can it cannot do something with the dog I bought at full price. Including freezing his semen if I decide to neuter him. She should have zero say in that. I paid the same as everyone else. He is MY dog. 

If she wants coownership, then the price should be negotiated and terms worked out. Who is responsible for what. He is either yours, or not. 

Sorry.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Also, the fact that you ARE NOT ALLOWED, to breed a dog you paid full price for. Nope nuh uh. He is yours.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Would never do it and even walk away no matter how much I like to have that particular pup. My animals are mine and I don't like anyone else to tell me what I can and cannot do. It can easily lead to trouble and less enjoyment of having a dog.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

This doesn't sound like an arrangement I'd be interested in. You pay full price for the pup and in return the breeder may use him in their program? Sounds win-win for the breeder. I know co-ownerships can work out great for both parties but I would need some incentive...be it a deal on the sale, cash incentives for titles earned, that kind of thing. And the contract would be looked over by my lawyer.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Reminds me off a couple i met at the dog park sone time ago, owners of a sheep doodle. Dog was not fixed and violent but still showed up anyways. They said, there contract stated they were not allowed to fix him because the breeder may want to use him, a sheepdoodle is no recognized breed here i dont think so basically breeding a mutt. Anyways, thats what the contract said- i read on fb that he got torn up pretty badly at the park about a week ago, i wonder if the breeder forked over the cash to fix him ?


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

If she wants the pup for breeding then she shouldn't sell it. Sounds like you're getting the short end of the stick here.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Hmm. Interesting points you all bring up. I would receive the registration papers at the time of his altering, and by that I would assume 100% ownership.

Im so confused! Now I don't know what to do. I guess it is a little troubling that I would pay full price for him, basically just housing her dog. But she's made it clear that he's mine, the only reason she's got co ownership is to have the rights to his genes, which I'm not going to use. I'm so conflicted now.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I've done a co-ownership before, and will never again. Too much work, and it seemed whenever I wanted to do something with the dog, the other owner would want to breed it. I ended up buying that dog outright. I don't like anyone else having a say in what I do with my dog. It seemed I payed all the vet, training and grooming for the dog and they could breed it to who they chose. I didn't even get a say in that.


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## Yoshi (May 12, 2014)

I also don't care much for co-ownership. As far as I am concerned if I pay full price for the dog and have to take care of it sorely with my expenses then it is mine. I am free to do what I please with it. If the breeder was going to pay for half of everything such as food, veterinary services, then maybe, co-ownership is not that bad. But how many breeders actually do that? Who wants to pay hard earned money full priced for anything and find out they can't do whatever they like with it? 

That's like buying a rooster off someone and finding out that because of the co-ownership you can't slaughter it for consumption or can't use it for breeding. What else are you going to use a rooster for? Or you buy a horse from someone but find out you are not allowed to ride it? Or you buy a car and you are not allowed to drive it?? :crazy:


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

What if you have the full rights to the dog and paid the full price. Then the breeder wants a breeding out of him, will (s)he have to pay the full price or give you the first pick of the pups or does( s)he get a free breeding?


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

I guess what made me think that it could work out was the idea that if the arrangements of breeding him became too much or he became too much of a handful unaltered, I would pay the fee to have his sperm collected and then get full ownership -- which would be basically just paying a little more to buy him outright? I don't have a problem with her having his sperm, and if breeding him/having him unaltered wasn't an issue, then all the better. That's just what I was thinking, but I really am interested to hear everyone's opinions and experience to help guide me here...

The contract really doesn't offer me much regarding the co ownership, but it doesn't take much either. I'm not allowed to breed him myself, but I don't care about doing that. I am not allowed to neuter him without telling her, but if we discussed it it's not off the table if I paid for collecting his stuff. From what I understand, she has full rights to all of his breedings including puppies and such in exchange for paying for his health testing and all of that.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

Snapdragon said:


> Hmm. Interesting points you all bring up. I would receive the registration papers at the time of his altering, and by that I would assume 100% ownership.
> 
> Im so confused! Now I don't know what to do. I guess it is a little troubling that I would pay full price for him, basically just housing her dog. But she's made it clear that he's mine, the only reason she's got co ownership is to have the rights to his genes, which I'm not going to use. I'm so conflicted now.


Tell her it's full ownership or nothing. Tell her there is no benefit to you in this partnership.

Also tell her you want full registration, not the limited one she is giving now. Breeding or not you should not be the exception to the rule. Does this breeder sell other dogs on full or limited papers too?


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> What if you have the full rights to the dog and paid the full price. Then the breeder wants a breeding out of him, will (s)he have to pay the full price or give you the first pick of the pups or does( s)he get a free breeding?


If you outright own the dog then you either get a stud fee or a pick of the litter, that's usually how it works.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

So, just a thought.. You pay full price, no co ownership, but you allow her to collect the sperm one time only asap, her expense, then you neuter as you want...


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Whats he bringing to the table besides good looks?
Is she forking out when he needs health checks of various sorts

^ sorry i did not see tbe part were you stated she would pay for health checks.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Debanneball said:


> So, just a thought.. You pay full price, no co ownership, but you allow her to collect the sperm one time only asap, her expense, then you neuter as you want...


Maybe there's some negotiation to be had here. I have no problem with her having his sperm and having a couple litters, but having to complicate my life with him for this might be a bit much. Maybe I could ask her if when he's old enough we could do a few collections so she has a supply on hand, and then I could fix him.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Many breeders retain breeding rights to the male pups they sell...and I think that they are rarely ever used. You don't need a co-ownership for that. I really wanted to use a male from one of my ltters, but the owner has never done his adult hips and elbows....prelims done when she bought him, but never certified....so I have never used him

Lee


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Whats he bringing to the table besides good looks?
> Is she forking out when he needs health checks of various sorts


Yes, she is forking out all the money for his eye, hip, elbow etc testing.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I also have done a co-ownership and will never do again. In my case, I did not pay a fee for the dog but I was limited to what I could do with her.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Also, if you didn't have him fixed before she 'called' on him to breed, what happens if he is injured? Some females aren't thrilled with the idea of being bred.... Basically, you are paying full price for the dog PLUS paying for YOUR DOGS SPORT FOR her... Or, you become subject to her breeding schedule... Personally, I wouldn't do it... If she wants sperms from him then she should pay you for it, or at the very least pay for the collection and all testing, it is after all your dog... It eases her expenses and hassle if he is 'rehomed' while he grows up, then she calls on him for breeding, or has you pay for his sperms collection, hmmm, nope, not for me, but that is just my opinion


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Snapdragon said:


> From what I understand, she has full rights to all of his breedings including puppies and such in exchange for paying for his health testing and all of that.


That is a win-win for her. In that case she should give him for free to you IMO. Also you can ask her if she cultures the females to make sure your male doesn't pick up anything from natural matings and make sure to put that agreement in the contract. A contract is not just to protect her rights but also yours.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

why would you pay to have his sperm collected when the breeder is the one who wants to breed him-there isn't much in this contract for you


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I once was "offered" an intact adult male and would have to pay the full price, without co-owning, but let her use him as often as she wanted without reimbursing me. I decided not to fall for that and was happy that I stood my ground. The pup you are talking about is not the only GSD in the world.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Do you think it would be worth it if I was able to negotiate it so that she would pay to have 1-2 collections of his sperm done, and then I would get full rights to him? That way she'd have his genes, be able to use him in her program, but I'd still get my dog?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Snapdragon said:


> Do you think it would be worth it if I was able to negotiate it so that she would pay to have 1-2 collections of his sperm done, and then I would get full rights to him? That way she'd have his genes, be able to use him in her program, but I'd still get my dog?


But then you should get a discount since she will sell the pups. She shouldn't have it all I would think. The problem here is the emotional component. If this were a "thing" it would be no-brainer like mentioned before.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Think of it like this: you buy a car full price, but the seller is able to, whenever they want, use it, but you pay for the gas, the insurance, maintenance, and any other fees. Even if it was for just 2 rides, would you think it a fair deal? 

Personally, I think you should have a discount on the pup if she wants pups out of him (and she pays for all tests and collection of sperms, which is limited in times collected). I know it is hard to hear this, especially if there is an emotional connection already with the pup.. But I think if you do it the way you are suggesting you will end up regretting /resenting it... Imho


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Ok. I think everyone has opened my eyes up a little here, and I've finally grasped what it was about this that made me uncomfortable. I would feel kind of used. I feel like it would be alright with me if I paid full price and she paid for his 2-3 collections, if I was able to then neuter him/get full rights to him, and got a pick out of one of his litters that he had as a result of those collections. Would that be reasonable to ask for?


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

I would say so. Especially as he isn't 100% sure that the pup in would be a breeding prospect, so she would get full price of pup and you would get full rights, no extra expenses and pick of litter (should it occur) at some point. I think it will win. Hope it works out for you


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

You can ask for anything you have suggested-reading this it says something to me that she is not offering you much -its a pretty good deal for her


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

As I understand it, breeders frequently sell pups on limited registration until X, Y & Z are done (basically some performance or show cred & health certs). They may ask to breed the dog or work out an arrangement with you -- but that would come with the dog being yours, it's registration being released and the breeding negotiated.

She can feed, vet and train her own breeding prospect would be my take on the present offer.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have had a couple of my females on co-ownerships, however, everything was clearly spelled out in the contracts. My aussie for example, tho she was co owned with the breeder, I had FULL rights to do as I saw fit..In other words, if at some point I wanted to spay her, I had the right to do that without the co owners permission / input/ even if she disagreed. I was responsible for ALL financial stuff UNLESS we (breeder and I) decided at some point to breed her and then who she was bred to, was up to the breeder (since I wasn't "up" on aussie genetics at the time)..

In the end, everything was spelled out very very clearly, that "I" held all the decision making power and I had her spayed because I chose to, the breeder was fine with that.

Would I co own again? Yes, but it would clearly depend on the contract. Would I co own on what "YOU" are talking about, absolutely NOT.

You talk about getting papers with 100% ownership,,no that's not how it works..When you receive your registration papers, that breeder is going to be listed as "co owner" therefore has 1/2 'rights' regarding what goes on with that dog UNLESS it is clearly stated in your contract (and even then, if things go south, there could be one big mess legally speaking)..

If you are buying a "pet/companion", and paying full price, you should own the dog outright, no co ownerships. Pets/Companions that are not titled nor health certified have no business being bred.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Snapdragon said:


> I guess it is a little troubling that I would pay full price for him,* basically just housing her dog.*


This is what most co-ownerships sound like to me. If I pay full price for a dog it is mine to decide when to alter (or not), when to breed (or not). If he's that nice, then she can breed to him without owning him. I have a dog a few breeders have used as a stud dog, yet none of them have any "rights" to him because he's 100% mine. I personally do not and will not ever do co-ownerships. I have housed and helped raise or train some dogs that someone else owns in full and I'm either being paid to care for the dog or doing it for free just because I'm bored and I want to. If a breeder wants any stake in the dog or the ability to make any decisions about the dog, I'd rather THEY own the dog in full, not me paying for it yet them thinking they can still make decisions about it.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Everyone makes so much sense here. Thanks so much. I sent her an email saying that I don't have a problem wih her using him. I want full ownership, but will sign his sperm over to her and the rights therewith (since she said that the only reason she wants co ownership is for the breeding part), but I request a single pick puppy out of one of his litters. Also, I said I would pay for the first collection (I am ok with that), but she can do a couple more collections if she wants more of it on hand at her expense. However I must be allowed to fix him after those procedures are done.

We will see, if she doesn't like it, at least I tried. If I pay full price, I want full rights.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Why do you have to pay for the collection? I think you're still giving her a lot actually. If he's yours in full, you have the right to determine the terms of his stud agreement. JHMO


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Also, I would stipulate how long she has to get the sperms collected (if you plan on neutering him shooting might wait 6yrs to collect, are you willing to keep him intact that long???), since you already sent the email. I too agree that you are giving her alot for nothing, but if you don't mind, be sure there is a time limit on sperms collection...


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

I guess I'm viewing it as an extra fee to own him in full. I don't really mind. I'd just be doing it once, and she would pay for the freezing and storing. I also said that a couple extra collections would be fine at her expense, but that I would want to fix him not later than 2.5 years old.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Where you planning on doing OFA hips & Elbows, CERF (eye) testing, and probably a slew of other health tests responsible breeders run when they plan on using a dog for breeding? Who will pay for the health clearances if you own the dog but are donating sperm? 

Another thing that was mentioned here, and it sorta bothers me, is that you mentioned you may want to neuter your dog so he does not get un-manageable. My opinion is that if a dog in unmanageable by his owner un-neutered, then this dog does does not have the type of temperament that would make him a dog worth breeding.

I used to believe that male dogs needed to be neutered, or they get aggressive and dominant and will constantly pick fights and challenge their owners. I found out I was wrong! A dog a good temperament is obedient, socially tactful, willing and wanting to please, and a pleasure to own, intact or not.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

An email is not a contract and you have the right to change your mind, think things over carefully and not hit that send button so soon. People are right, you are still giving her a lot in addition to the full price you'll pay for YOUR dog. 
I just set up a contract with my breeder. The pup I am getting is super well liked by every one and the breeder is in awe with him. But....I will have the full ownership, full registration and he will pay the normal stud fee if he wants to use him. If he changes his mind I am willing to walk away, even though I am very happy with this pup (in the litter still). But I will pay for a collection if I change my mind about leaving him intact, which is the main condition in his contract. That is fair to me.
You have to be happy in the end and it sounds like your breeder still has you on her strings, that you handed to her. But if you feel good about this, then who are we to try to talk you out of it?


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Castlemaid said:


> Where you planning on doing OFA hips & Elbows, CERF (eye) testing, and probably a slew of other health tests responsible breeders run when they plan on using a dog for breeding? Who will pay for the health clearances if you own the dog but are donating sperm?
> 
> Another thing that was mentioned here, and it sorta bothers me, is that you mentioned you may want to neuter your dog so he does not get un-manageable. My opinion is that if a dog in unmanageable by his owner un-neutered, then this dog does does not have the type of temperament that would make him a dog worth breeding.
> 
> I used to believe that male dogs needed to be neutered, or they get aggressive and dominant and will constantly pick fights and challenge their owners. I found out I was wrong! A dog a good temperament is obedient, socially tactful, willing and wanting to please, and a pleasure to own, intact or not.


She would pay for all his health clearances. Also, I guess I was under the wrong impression as well! But additionally, I am not really on board with the other parts of this. I don't want to be on her breeding schedule with my dog for the next 10 years (or however long they are breedable).


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> An email is not a contract and you have the right to change your mind, think things over carefully and not hit that send button so soon. People are right, you are still giving her a lot in addition to the full price you'll pay for YOUR dog.
> I just set up a contract with my breeder. The pup I am getting is super well liked by every one and the breeder is in awe with him. But....I will have the full ownership, full registration and he will pay the normal stud fee if he wants to use him. If he changes his mind I am willing to walk away, even though I am very happy with this pup (in the litter still). But I will pay for a collection if I change my mind about leaving him intact, which is the main condition in his contract. That is fair to me.
> You have to be happy in the end and it sounds like your breeder still has you on her strings, that you handed to her. But if you feel good about this, then who are we to try to talk you out of it?


I am willing to walk away if she doesn't like these terms. Im willing to pay for that one collection for her, one time. Not more than once, not the freezing or storing, not the health clearances, not anything else breeding related. I guess it does sound like a lot, but I guess I already sent my offer.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't know, I would still own him in full, no stipulations. And if he is breeding material, you can still offer her the collection later on, with a stud contract. I've done a few breedings with my male and they have all had different terms depending on the person and the method of breeding. The last one was a collection for shipping chilled semen and because the chances of pregnancy are less than a natural breeding, I do not collect a stud fee until the pregnancy is confirmed, that sort of thing. If she REALLY wants to use him and he's worth it, she should at the very minimum be willing to pay for the actual collection.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Liesje said:


> I don't know, I would still own him in full, no stipulations. And if he is breeding material, you can still offer her the collection later on, with a stud contract. I've done a few breedings with my male and they have all had different terms depending on the person and the method of breeding. The last one was a collection for shipping chilled semen and because the chances of pregnancy are less than a natural breeding, I do not collect a stud fee until the pregnancy is confirmed, that sort of thing. If she REALLY wants to use him and he's worth it, she should at the very minimum be willing to pay for the actual collection.


Well shoot, I get what you're saying, but what if she writes back and says she would agree to what I sent before? Do I write back and say "well actually, I changed my mind"?


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Snapdragon said:


> Well shoot, I get what you're saying, but what if she writes back and says she would agree to what I sent before? Do I write back and say "well actually, I changed my mind"?


Yes, if you're uncomfortable as the contract is. Nothing is final until it is signed. Until then, I would make sure you are 100% on board. It's a big decision. I feel like you have the right to modify until you're happy with it.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Hmmm. Nobody thinks it would be asking too much to buy the dog, expect to be offered a pick of one of his puppies, and have her pay for everything else? I feel like maybe it evens out, because I don't have to pay for his health testing like I assume stud owners usually do themselves.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

I looked into co-ownership with my first GSD buy and all I got from this lady was I will do this and I will do that ( meaning her) I ran the other way.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

You don't even know down the line if your dog will be worth breeding. What if he fails health clearances? What if a testicle doesn't drop? What if his temperament isn't quite what it should be (like being afraid of loud noises, for example). You can still breed him of course, but will you want those issues passed on to a future puppy you want to own?

It seems to me that one of the big reasons you are interested in this is that you will want to ask for a puppy as a stud fee - so looking at a free puppy down the line? Lot's of unknowns at this point to be tying yourself down and making future commitments.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Unless I missed something, it looks like your goals for a dog are as a companion. I would never get involved in a co-ownership deal unless I was very interested in competing (show, performance) or breeding. I would also not expect to pay full price for the puppy in a co-ownership deal even if it is a male. 

I have officially co-owned one dog. I paid nothing for her, she was totally in my name with full registration. I was responsible for all care, work, titling, and health certificates and the breeder and I would have co-owned two litters. If she had worked out then this would have been a win-win for us both, but I am a breeder and a competitor. You are not.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Snapdragon said:


> Hmmm. Nobody thinks it would be asking too much to buy the dog, expect to be offered a pick of one of his puppies, and have her pay for everything else? I feel like maybe it evens out, because I don't have to pay for his health testing like I assume stud owners usually do themselves.


Why not have you pay for all the health testing, titles, etc? I guess I missed that part before. If you think the dog is breedworthy and own the dog in full, I would say it's up to you to prove that. Then, if she wants to breed to him, she can do so with whatever stud contract you agree on. Getting a puppy back is pretty common (I have one currently, and have been offered this during other discussions about possible breedings).

I guess I do not see the point in a complicated co-ownership. Just buy the dog outright. Pay for whatever needs paying for because it's your dog. If he is breeding material, you can breed him later on. You can make whatever arrangements you want as far as breeding, but I don't see any point on making those decisions right now.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

I'm following this thread. I have talked about potentially co-owning a breeding dog in the future, and I would want very clear terms and a good relationship with the breeder. I also would not be happy with the co-owner agreement originally proposed. If you are only wanting a companion and have no interest in breeding or sport, then I definitely would not want this arrangement. My current dog is my dog, registered in my name 100%, no contract. I bought him primarily as a companion but also as a beginning sport prospect. My breeder has expressed interest in him as a stud dog in the future, but this is my dog, and my decision about breeding. It's all on me to pursue show titles, performance titles, and health checks. He's young yet and we have a long way to go if I decide to go this route, and if not, then he's still 100% my pet.


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## Katey (Aug 11, 2010)

I actually walked away from taking an adult (non-GSD) from a breeder I really respected when she changed her mind after we had talked and decided she'd only do a placement if I were willing to meet halfway as needed (still a long day's drive) to finish the female's CH with particular judges. As a student, I couldn't commit to that type of imprecise but demanding scheduling, and as a dog owner, I wasn't interested in handing over my dog for weeks at a time, especially since we agreed the female wouldn't be bred. 

It didn't feel blatantly inequitable (she would pay for showing expenses), it just didn't line up with MY goals/wants for a dog, or her goals/wants for that dog, so we went our separate ways. And that would be the crux of my advice. Generally speaking, it's unwise to commit to anything with any dog/breeder that doesn't specifically line up with the plans you already have, even if there weren't any other "flags" going up on the terms of your deal.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I have a very good relationship with my Lacy breeder. He has been involved with everything that I've done with my dog, from certifications to breed demos. I own my dog 100%, but when people approach me to use my dog as stud, I send them to my breeder. I intend on making an educated decision as to what bitch will create a litter with my dog's name on them. I have put in too much time and effort on my dog. My breeder is extremely selective when it comes to breeding.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Snapdragon said:


> Hmmm. Nobody thinks it would be asking too much to buy the dog, expect to be offered a pick of one of his puppies, and have her pay for everything else? I feel like maybe it evens out, because I don't have to pay for his health testing like I assume stud owners usually do themselves.


If you fully own the stud dog, the breeder doesn't have to pay for anything. Only when she wants a breeding, and you agree on that, will she have to pay the stud fee like anyone else or give you the first pick of the pups.
If you own the stud you are morally required to make sure he passes the most important health tests and has good temperament (make sure he is trained well as well to show it).
It feels like you are still doubting. In general, doesn't 'doubt' mean 'no'? That has helped me lots in situations like these.


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## Snapdragon (Jul 1, 2014)

Ok. So I've been thinking about this a lot. There are just too many things going wrong with this. I don't care about a free puppy, or about breeding, or getting a stud fee. I'm not trying to get anything out of this, I was just putting those things forward to make it so I felt less ripped off. As it is, I deeply feel that I need to walk away. All I want is a companion to shower with love. I don't want to worry or think about strings that are attached to him. When I think about going through with it, everything in my conscience and heart and mind scream "don't do this", and now that I decided against it I have unspeakable relief. In any case, in 4-6 months my good breeder and friend will be having their new litters go home. I know that if I took this boy now and then watched her babies go home early 2015, I would kick myself big time. I trust that breeder 200%, and have actually met all of her dogs. Thanks guys, you helped me in this process, and I believe I am avoiding a big mistake.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I think you couldn't have made a better move. Pretty smart and courageous too. And... you never got upset about any of us!!! Congratulations and enjoy the anticipation of your very own puppy to come


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Yay!! I'm glad you were able to make a decision, feel good (relieved) about it, and have puppies you know are quality ion the near horizon.... Pix when you get one!


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## Guy9999 (Aug 25, 2014)

Can you own the dog outright? Do you want to breed the dog or keep him intact? What do you want? Do you trust this person?


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