# Breeding Setups



## bethany.cole2013 (Sep 28, 2012)

*So yet another question. I hope you guys aren't getting tired of me asking questions =( I'm wondering if there are any breeders on here that wouldn't mind sharing pictures/details of how they are set up? I'm trying to get a feel for how the better breeders are set up and what those set ups look like. *


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Look at this site, I'd love to have this if I were a breeder. The link has several wonderful articles and links within.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I love Chris and Tim's site!

They seem to have a wonderful set-up.

Also - those baby photo's - EEK!


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## bethany.cole2013 (Sep 28, 2012)

*That is a very nice whelping setup, but I was also wondering about how well known and respected breeders keep their individual dogs. *


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## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

bethany.cole2013 said:


> *That is a very nice whelping setup, but I was also wondering about how well known and respected breeders keep their individual dogs. *


Can you elaborate on what, exactly, you mean by that?


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

I think she is asking more along the lines of something like Selzer's set-up....Like how the parents are kept when not breeding.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The link I posted had that information included...very transparent breeder who is well known and respected 
It probably depends on the individual breeder and how many dogs they have/whether or not they have studs on property and if, or if not they work their dogs. Many breeders have training fields or facilities on property so they have access to train as often as possible. 
Outdoor kennel set up would also vary according to the environment. 
Commercial kennels will have buildings/kennels and whelping areas, but no 'home'. 

just my opinion on all of the above, but I favor the smaller, hobby kennel where the dogs are part of the family and the breeder knows that dog individually, not just as a part of the business.


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## bethany.cole2013 (Sep 28, 2012)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> I think she is asking more along the lines of something like Selzer's set-up....Like how the parents are kept when not breeding.


*That is what I was trying to say lol. Like where the dogs are kept, the layout of the facilities etc when they aren't breeding dogs and when they aren't whelping puppies. *


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

No pictures, but my dogs are house dogs that rotate between crates, sometimes the dog yards and house. Having girls that HATE each other requires this. They each have their buddy they can be with, have their time when they hang out with me and then the girls rotate getting to sleep loose. 

Donvan's rather large wire crate is in the living room which is the room I spend the most time in. I have 4 large crates in my bedroom for the girls, 2 in my dining room and a couple in my back room. When anyone is in heat (and right now that can only be Deja or Elena) they are in my bedroom with the door shut and several gates blocking access to the room. If I have to leave, either the female in heat goes with me, Donovan goes with me or Donovan is outside in the dog yard. I don't like leaving my dogs outside when I am not home. 

During the day we either train, go running, hiking, biking or they just hang out with me.


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## bethany.cole2013 (Sep 28, 2012)

Bump


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Well known and respected breeders are determined by the dogs they produce....it has nothing to do with the kennel setup. There are great hobby breeders and there are great commercial breeders, there are bad of both also.
People have individual likes and dislikes in viewing these setups, but it doesn't translate to quality of dogs raised or bred.


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## bethany.cole2013 (Sep 28, 2012)

cliffson1 said:


> Well known and respected breeders are determined by the dogs they produce....it has nothing to do with the kennel setup. There are great hobby breeders and there are great commercial breeders, there are bad of both also.
> People have individual likes and dislikes in viewing these setups, but it doesn't translate to quality of dogs raised or bred.


So as long as the dogs the breeder is producing are great quality dogs it doesn't matter what their setup looks like?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

You seem to have a particular question in mind, if so, go ahead and ask it straight out. 

As long as facilities are clean, well maintained, dogs are fed/worked/loved/socialized/vetted, why does it matter what the facilities look like? Some people have few dogs and can manage in a home. Larger scale breeders need kennel or barn setups because they have so many to house. The quality depends on the breeder, his/her vision , and what they produce. Anyone can breed dogs, it's not that hard. You can easily sell these mediocre dogs also. But those that "get" it, do it right and produce great results.


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## bethany.cole2013 (Sep 28, 2012)

No particular question in mind. I originally started this thread asking if anyone had any pictures of more reputable commercial breeders' setups and what people's opinions on what makes a good setup for breeding.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

What makes a good setup for breeding is the puppies being raised in the type of environment that they will live in. For me, that means keeping my dogs in my house as part of my family and raising puppies the same way. They will know household noises and activities versus kennel raised puppies that may become fearful of environments that they were not exposed to. Socialization is big, if the puppies are raised with the family and taken out to meet many new people then they will not have an issue once they go on to new homes. Puppies raised solely in a kennel may have trouble adapting to life in a home since they were not exposed to that. Some commercial type breeders do kennel raise their puppies, but also socialize them to new things - some let them stay just in the kennel and the only time they leave is when they go to a new home. I prefer the home hobby breeder and that is the type I hope to be.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

:thinking::thinking::thinking:I have found that whether a pup was bred commercially or hobbywise has nothing to do with the ability of the dog to thrive as an in house dog. But that's just my observations.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

It depends on the amount of socialization they received - so you would think then that puppy mill dogs are great house dogs? Well they aren't. But some commercial kennels (not puppy mills) do take the time to socialize their puppies who then are fine in whatever situation you put them in. A puppy mill puppy receives no socialization and I have fostered enough of them in the past to know that there is a huge difference between them and other puppies. They do not easily adapt to home life.

And adding - there is a standard poodle in my puppy class right now who was raised by a small breeder who put the puppies in an outdoor pen when they were 4 weeks old and then only went out to feed them and clean the pen. This woman got her puppy when he was 3 months old and he is the weirdest puppy I've seen in a long time. Everything terrifies him and he is not a good house pet yet. He is going to take alot of work and may never be quite right. He was kennel raised, but never socialized to anything other than that kennel.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Genetics. That pup would probably have been just as odd if it had been raised in the house. I got a pup at 5 months that had been raised in a kennel. She was a bit harder to house break, but other than that she was social, very sound and showed no environmental issues. That is the biggest thing I have found with sound dogs raised in kennel environments. They can be a bit harder to house break. If the nerves are good that is the only problem I have run into. 

I prefer to raise my pups in the house with outside time once they are older (and weather permitting). It works better for me, gives me more time with them and also more enjoyable for me. Most of the pups I have purchased were born inside and then moved outside. Never made any difference because they all had very solid nerves.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I think cleanliness and roominess are more important that in or out. I have seen many, many puppies born and raised in small shelter cages and they often end up being nasty little buggers that are very difficult to house-train.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Oh yes. I had a pup for a very short time (breeder sent me a coat and she went back). They thought they would be helpful and put her in a crate to get her used to that. The problem is they put her in the crate when they went to work. She learned that the crate was a place to go potty. She was filthy. I have just found, though, that older pups raised in kennels, even clean spacious kennels can be a bit harder to housebreak since they are used to going when ever. If they have had some crate time, though, then they were easy. The female, Endi, that I also got at 5 months was super clean, but she had traveled to training in a crate and slept in a crate at night.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I have still never seen any corellation between commercial pups and hobby pups having an advantage in being good house dogs. Without a doubt genetics is the most important element. But I import a lot of puppies, that usually come from outdoor setups in Europe....and truthfully they are usually housebroken in 2to3days....2 of the last three pups were housebroken without one accident in the house, and within a week know the area that I want them to eliminate outside. No car accidents or crate accidents....I attribute a lot to genetics but a young puppy with good genetics should easily adjust to new environment as Lisa said....but hey others may experience other results.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

So you are a "nature" over "nurture" person, I get it. I think both have important influences on a young puppy. 

So if you took a puppy from 2 stable dogs and raised it in near isolation with no exposure to anyone other than you and no exposure to any environment outside of the one that they are raised in that puppy would still be perfectly fine and normal when brought into a family home and would show no ill effects from being raised in that way? 

I'll have to see if any studies have been done to prove or disprove that. 

I think socialization is key to puppy development and without it a puppy would not be at their fullest potential even with good genetics. But that's solely my opinion.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think genetics trump socializing. 
I've seen dogs that are kennel raised through the 'imprinting' period(one was over a yr old and lived in a kennel her whole puppyhood) and are extremely social, not reactive to others...nor are they fearful or timid. Though they may have a of bit barrier aggressive behavior due to the kenneling. Both male and female.
That said, unless the lines were something I really wanted, I'd rather go with a small hobby breeder who raises pups in the home environment, not a commercial kennel with paid staff.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I'm not a nothing over nothing, because the pups I get still live in the real world and are exposed to life, so they are exposed to nurture that is not necessarily from a home and still do well. I just have gotten a lot of pups that came from outdoor kennels and they havent had a problem with acclimating to a house. Hundreds of dogs from Jinopo, Eurosport, Kreative Kennels, Triple Crown, and many many other commercial kennels live in house all throughout the country and world with no abnormal adjustment. I dont know that this makes me anything but aware that a good dog/pup will adjust to their environment easily if things are normal.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

I haven't had the same experience so I draw my conclusions from what I have personally been around and seen with my own eyes. 

If socialization really meant nothing, then why bother with it at all. I would like to have the best of both - good genes and a well socialized puppy, for me the best place to get that is a hobby breeder who is involved in their dogs and raises litters in their home. But to each their own.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

WHO said anything about no socialization???? You don't know if commercial kennels socialize their puppies, for you to jump to that conclusion:thinking:, because you equate commercial kennels with a lack of socialization doesn't make it so...sorry. The fact remains that all those kennels I mentioned and others have plenty of their pups living in homes. We are all entitled to our opinions, we are all entitled to our preferences, we are NOT entitled to our facts. I have no problem with your personal preference that you prefer a hobby breeder.....I just don't think it is fair to project (to newbies) that they can't get just a good puppy from a commercial operation when thousands of people have and still do.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I just hope that as the OP understands, since she has interest in becoming a breeder, that the kennel set-up is not what makes a good breeder, nor the size of the operation, but the understanding of the dogs, pedigrees, and how to determine which dogs are breedworthy - and that comes from a life-time of involvement with training dogs in all venues, performance and work.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

cliffson1 said:


> WHO said anything about no socialization???? You don't know if commercial kennels socialize their puppies, for you to jump to that conclusion:thinking:, because you equate commercial kennels with a lack of socialization doesn't make it so...sorry. The fact remains that all those kennels I mentioned and others have plenty of their pups living in homes. We are all entitled to our opinions, we are all entitled to our preferences, we are NOT entitled to our facts. I have no problem with your personal preference that you prefer a hobby breeder.....I just don't think it is fair to project (to newbies) that they can't get just a good puppy from a commercial operation when thousands of people have and still do.


That was in response to posts that genetics was everything, that it doesn't matter if the puppy was socialized or not as long as the genetics behind it were good. I think you can take a puppy with good genetics and completely mess it up by not socializing it. Yes you may be able to make up for that later on if the genetics are good. There are commercial breeders who socialize and there are ones who don't. I was pointing out that socialization is critical whether the puppy is from a commercial kennel or a hobby breeder regardless of the genetics. 

Why don't more breeders put an emphasis on socializing and exposure to new people and things before the puppy goes home? 

I'm sure a good puppy can be obtained from a commercial breeder - the respected ones employ people to handle their puppies and work with them so they receive a ton of hands on care and socialization. The ones who don't do that, well despite good genetics those puppies are at a disadvantage when going to new homes because they haven't been around anything. 

I never said you can't get a good puppy that way, it just depends on whether the breeder did socializing or not. Hobby breeders are just as guilty of not doing it as commercial breeders. To the OP whatever breeding setup you prefer, make sure that socializing puppies is made a priority.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

OP, setting aside the debating going on here - you said you are interested in a commercial breeding facility set up and seeing photos of one.

Here is one with lots of pics and info pertaining to the kennel facilities. Leerburg | A Tour of the Leerburg Kennel Facility


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

True Haus has a great facility, IMO. They have an indoor-outdoor kennel setup. There are large chainlink runs attached to a kennel building, so that part of the kennel enclosure is indoors. Inside the kennel building there is a grooming tub, tack room, and air conditioning in the summer (it's hot here but winters are mild). Just outside the building there is a grooming table and a powerful force dryer (the kind I would kill to have). The entire property is fenced so that the dogs can get out and exercise, and they have a big training field with all the equipment. They do rotate dogs in and out of the house, so they get household time as well. I am not sure how many dogs they have at the moment, but it's too many to keep them all in the house at once.

Personally, if I were a breeder I would want to keep it small so that my dogs could ALL be housedogs, but that's just not possible for a lot of folks.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

The leerburg site was interesting-it would also be interesting to see what set ups people have for their dogs whether they are breeders or not


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## bethany.cole2013 (Sep 28, 2012)

I'm not particularly interested in becoming a big, commercial breeder. I would want to be more of a smaller hobby breeder, as I love having the company of my doggies in the house with me and I wouldn't feel as comfortable with having to hire people to take care of my dogs for me. I was mainly just curious about people's opinions of these larger setups and what they may look like.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Personally, if I were a breeder I would want to keep it small so that my dogs could ALL be housedogs, but that's just not possible for a lot of folks


Co-owns could accomplish that if you trusted who you were in partnership with.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Freestep said:


> True Haus has a great facility, IMO. They have an indoor-outdoor kennel setup. There are large chainlink runs attached to a kennel building, so that part of the kennel enclosure is indoors. Inside the kennel building there is a grooming tub, tack room, and air conditioning in the summer (it's hot here but winters are mild). Just outside the building there is a grooming table and a powerful force dryer (the kind I would kill to have). The entire property is fenced so that the dogs can get out and exercise, and they have a big training field with all the equipment. They do rotate dogs in and out of the house, so they get household time as well. I am not sure how many dogs they have at the moment, but it's too many to keep them all in the house at once.
> 
> *Personally, if I were a breeder I would want to keep it small so that my dogs could ALL be housedogs, but that's just not possible for a lot of folks.*


There is a problem with this. We need to breed for the future, else, we really should not breed. This does not mean we keep a puppy out of every litter we produce, but we should keep puppies from our litters, raise them, grow them out, and if they are breedworthy, add them to our breeding program. 

If you start your program with two bitches, no dog, yes they can both be house dogs, most like. But the moment you start keeping pups to raise, keeping a bitch who is retired, taking a pup back that did not work out, keeping a puppy that seems to have an issue, you are no longer in the range of them all being able to run freely in your home all the time. With multiple intact females, crate/rotate or kennel will most likely become inevitable at some point. 

I think that you can probably get a better pup genetically from a medium size breeder who keeps a number of females and has a few litters per year. The kennel set up does not speak of the quality of the pups, but the cleanliness of the kennel may speak of the health and dedication of the breeder. You want a breeder's dogs to be kept in decent conditions, because no one wants to support someone who is using animals foully to make money. 

But the requirement that the breeders dogs must all be house-dogs limits how good of a breeder that breeder can be.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

All else equal...I'll go with a breeder that keeps their dogs inside. It's a personal thing, not based on anything scientific or even logical. Just like to see that the dog is a pet first and a breeding animal second. Again...this is an all else equal thing and I would never rule out a breeder that has kennels. What selzer stated is probably very true, the more dogs you have the more likely it is that you are producing an all around "better" dog. The breeder isn't just using one female to get all their pups from, and is actually continually improving their lines by holding dogs back. If you intend to keep all dogs inside, it would probably get quite difficult at 5 or 6, unless you live in a mansion.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

What Castlemaid said is critical to being a good breeder regardless of the size or setup of the kennel!!!!


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