# So you wanna go to the dog park? :)



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

The dog park is a very hot steaming topic here, and probably with many dog forums. I understand that. I'm fond of saying it is a CRAPSHOOT because that's just what it is. You never know what you're going to get from day to day.

I'm not declaring myself as the dog park expert , I truly am not, but I've sure spent a good amount of time in them, and didn't waste that time. I watch, listen and pay attention every second I'm there. As in, pay attention to the dogs, not the picnic table holder-downers. 

So herein I am going to *try* to cover everything I have learned about dog parks.!

Sure, you are supposed to have a permit or license to go into most parks. Many people break this.

You are supposed to abide by the rules. Many people break them.

You are supposed to control your dogs, and be in control of them at all times. MANY people break this.

Many humans see the dog park as a combined opportunity. Bring the dog, let the dog run and play and the humans sit around and discuss.. whatever. Social hour. Their dogs are too often well across the park and they don't know where and don't care much. 

Said afforementioned humans will occasionally be snide about new folks coming in. "Gee, that woman was so jumpy - doesn't she know how dogs are supposed to play?" This type of statement _usually_ comes from the worst-behaved of the "established" crew.

Every dog park has the regulars. This is good and bad. With the regulars, you get to know their dogs. You know exactly what things will get them going. If you pay enough attention, you can probably understand their dogs better than they do, simply because they're sitting at the picnic table discussing politics, the latest news story, etc. 

And then you have those who are new. They come in, not knowing what to expect. Their experiences vary greatly. If the regulars' dogs descend on that dog and no one controls the dogs, the newcomer is often upset. Some newcomers are strong in their own right, and step in to control it, and some are so offput, they pick up their dog, leave and don't return. Every dog park "pack" *will* sniff on the newcomer. You must be ready for that in a new park. It will happen and you cannot depend on the owners to control this. If the owners *are* in charge and paying attention, that's a bonus. 

Then you have those who bring in their dog aggressive dogs during off hours, because they think they can avoid the "crowd." Be aware of this if you also use the reasoning of the "off-peak" hours.

Many, many, many people bring dogs into the dog park that shouldn't be there. These dogs hate being sniffed, have no desire to play with other dogs but their owners have some belief that it is best for the dog to "play" with other dogs. Maybe they do so out of guilt. Maybe they do so believing it is a good socialization opportunity. It is not. It is overkill, it is too much for these dogs. They simply do not like it and spend their time there avoiding contact with the other dogs. 

Taking the above a bit further... granted, not everyone has large, safe places to take their dog(s). So they go to the dog park. Ok. But everyone in a dog park must understand.. their dog *will* be approached by other dogs. It is just going to happen. You don't have a "right" to be left alone. It's a DOG PARK. In a perfect world, you have the "right" for your dog to not be "assaulted," but it is not a perfect world. Other dogs will approach your dog. I don't know how many times I've heard people say, "My dog just doesn't like other dogs." Ok then don't bring your dog to a dog park. It really is that simple. If you want to socialize your non-socialized dog, for goodness sakes, do not bring it to a dog park. There are simply too many dogs. Again, overkill.

During your time at the dog park, if you frequent it often enough, you will see many things that are probably completely against the rules. Aggressive dogs. Very young children. Treats handed out to entice the dogs. Toys thrown around to bring about guarding problems. Tiny puppies. 

Yet another issue I see over and over and over.... small, but very aggressive dogs. They instigate and entice. Terrier types. My dog loves these nutty terriers, but they're often a step away from honest injury. If that's YOUR dog, you need to understand it really isn't "cute." It's an accident -- an attack -- just waiting to happen. 

Ok, so I want to summarize:

--If your dog is aggressive to other dogs, don't go to the dog park unless you feel very secure in your handling of your own dog and any that might approach.
--Don't take your itty bitty pup to the dog park for socialization/exposure. You're more likely to scare the snot out of the dog than anything.
--Don't park your behind on a picnic table. 
--If your dog is a jerk, shut your dog down. (What is a "jerk" ? Pestering another dog. Humping. Dominance behavior. You can know it when you see it, the other dog will show clear signs that your dog's behavior is not acceptable.)
--If another dog is a jerk, shut it down, but if the owner is as much of a jerk as the dog -- LEAVE.
--Pay attention. At all times. Be where your dog is. 
--Be smart about toys and treats. Don't use them if you're within the "pack."

So all of that was pretty negative, but it is very important to understand all the aspects! My dog likes the park A LOT, but there may be a day we no longer go. It depends on him and his behavior. My dog has benefited in many ways. It has helped his *human* socialization more than I ever expected. So there are definitely positives.

Just be careful.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I agree.  

I haven't taken Ozzy to the dog park for a while (mostly due to the cold weather, and I usually take him to go swimming), but we have had a few run-ins I could have lived without. 

1. Two boxers ganged up on Ozzy. I think the younger one was there mostly because she was following the bigger male, but still. I pay attention to Ozzy every second we were at the park. Ozzy was about 2 feet from me, waiting for me to throw his ball out. Boxers just came up and the giant brindle one pinned him. Thankfully, it was mostly him being above Ozzy and growling (not a real attack), but enough to scare everyone involved half to death. Sadly, as a result of that, Ozzy doesn't like boxers much. 

2. A little braindead pug mixed thing would NOT leave Ozzy alone. He would come up and try to rip his lifejacket off of him. I would pick Ozzy up, go to the other side of the park, and continue playing. Braindead monster would show up again and repeat. When I took him back to the other side, he kept doing it. Since braindead owners didn't put a collar on braindead dog, I grabbed him by the scruff and yanked him off. I yelled, "WHOSE d*** dog is this?!" The two owners were sitting there, chatting amongst themselves, while one of their kids came to get the dog. I was close to kicking it to make him leave Ozzy alone. 

3. This one probably scared/intimidated me the most. There was a very large husky mix. I saw him coming and didn't like his body language as he approached, so I quickly picked up Ozzy. When the dog got to us, he jumped up on me, paws on my arm, and stared at me intently, not moving. I was frozen, not exactly sure what to do. I didn't look at him, but I thought if I ran, I might get bitten, or if I moved, he might do something besides just stare. I was standing there for about a minute before the owner realized where his dog was and he came up and dragged him off by his choke chain.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> 2. A little braindead pug mixed thing would NOT leave Ozzy alone. He would come up and try to rip his lifejacket off of him. I would pick Ozzy up, go to the other side of the park, and continue playing. Braindead monster would show up again and repeat. When I took him back to the other side, he kept doing it. Since braindead owners didn't put a collar on braindead dog, I grabbed him by the scruff and yanked him off. I yelled, "WHOSE d*** dog is this?!" The two owners were sitting there, chatting amongst themselves, while one of their kids came to get the dog. I was close to kicking it to make him leave Ozzy alone.


I am not making light of what happened, but the way you wrote it....way too funny!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Konotashi said:


> I agree.
> 
> I haven't taken Ozzy to the dog park for a while (mostly due to the cold weather, and I usually take him to go swimming), but we have had a few run-ins I could have lived without.
> 
> ...


 
Does your dog park have a "Little" dog and a "Big" dog area? 

Just curious as to why a Pom would be in the same area as Boxers and other large dogs. Seems like that mix would be just asking for trouble, even if the big guys are friendly (and some big dogs aren't and some little dogs think they are really tough).


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

There's a big and small dog area, but I think Ozzy (or my ankles) would be mauled if we tried to go in the small dog area.... We walk in, and all of them are sticking together at the edge of the gate, trying to attack anyone walking by. Then when they're off doing their own thing, they'll cower away from one another. I think Ozzy would be a bit 'much' for the little guys. He's used to playing with the big dogs.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

The dog park we take Shasta to is really big - 40 acres. I wonder if this is why we don't see this pack-type behavior. 

One thing I do see that I do not understand AT ALL is people letting their very small toddlers down on the ground. That is a tragedy waiting to happen.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

paulag1955 said:


> One thing I do see that I do not understand AT ALL is people letting their very small toddlers down on the ground. That is a tragedy waiting to happen.


Especially if they'll run and scream when a dog goes anywhere near them.... I've seen that, I don't know how many times.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Konotashi said:


> There's a big and small dog area, but I think Ozzy (or my ankles) would be mauled if we tried to go in the small dog area.... We walk in, and all of them are sticking together at the edge of the gate, trying to attack anyone walking by. Then when they're off doing their own thing, they'll cower away from one another. I think Ozzy would be a bit 'much' for the little guys. *He's used to playing with the big dogs*.


 
Oh, it appeared to me that you were upset with the big dogs trying to rough house with your little one.

I know if I went to a dog park with my 90lb rough playing GSD I would be a little surprised if someone brought a little tiny dog into that separate area. And a little afraid that my guy or another big dog might hurt the little one just by accident (much less consider it a "prey' animal). 

I would also be extremly careful if someone brings a sighthound into the park - better tell your dog not to run or make any quick moves (like a rabbit!).

You might be lucky and find someone else who has a very "tough" tiny dog who also brings them into the Big dog area whom your dog can play with.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

paulag1955 said:


> The dog park we take Shasta to is really big - 40 acres. I wonder if this is why we don't see this pack-type behavior.
> 
> One thing I do see that I do not understand AT ALL is people letting their very small toddlers down on the ground. That is a tragedy waiting to happen.


Same here. My dog park is HUGE not sure how big but it's the local Fair Grounds and when it's not Fair season it's a dog park. There are a few times I have had problem dogs but not too many. And so far i haven't seen much of a pack behavior. 

I do however see people bringing their young children to the park and just leaving them to wander amongst the dogs. I have actually had a boy about 8 or 9 y/o rush my 100lb GSD and attempt to choke him until he dropped the ball because he wanted to throw it for him.. meanwhile, I rush toward him and grab his hand and tell him to NEVER do that to another dog. He never knows what might happen, he could be attacked by the dog taking it as an aggressive behavior. Of course at the point th emom notices her son and all of a sudden is upset with me for "touching her child" Once explained that though my GSD is a VERY friendly loving dog.. he doesn't take to be manhandled by strangers. And though I was right there and stopped anything from happening before Titan could even think to respond, that might not be the case next time. Of course she was apologetic and scolded her boy after the case and after she knew what he did because she didn't see him but come on.. what if I was one of those irresponsible owners who was holding down the picnic table being chatty Kathy with the Braindead pug's owner, who knows what Titan might have done. just because he's a good, none aggressive dog doesn't mean he won't snap at a person essentially choking him. I wouldn't have faulted him if he did honestly. 

Sorry for the long reply, it was one of my biggest pet peeves of dog parks.. for people to bring their little kids and let them run around with all the dogs while they are not paying any mind. I think that bothers me even more than the owners who are ignorant to their dog's behaviors "oh he's humping because he's horny, hahahahaha." Yeah maybe in your world until you have no more dog because what he did was try to dominate a more dominant dog.. but I digress... lol.. oh dog parks.. gotta love them..


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

wyoung2153 said:


> Sorry for the long reply, it was one of my biggest pet peeves of dog parks.. for people to bring their little kids and let them run around with all the dogs while they are not paying any mind. ..


The dog parks near me have age limits on children that can come in, mostly over 12. Another pet peeve of mine is parents with children, without dogs, that bring their children in to play in the dog park, not necessarily with the dogs! :wild:



codmaster said:


> And a little afraid that my guy or another big dog might hurt the little one just by accident (much less consider it a "prey' animal).
> 
> I would also be extremly careful if someone brings a sighthound into the park - better tell your dog not to run or make any quick moves (like a rabbit!).


I've seen that way too many times, one of the reasons I won't own a small breed with my big ones.



paulag1955 said:


> The dog park we take Shasta to is really big - 40 acres. I wonder if this is why we don't see this pack-type behavior.
> 
> One thing I do see that I do not understand AT ALL is people letting their very small toddlers down on the ground. That is a tragedy waiting to happen.


What a great park that must be! One near me is not much bigger than a backyard and the other one is about an acre on top of a hill with no water or trees. Many dogs get heat stroke in the summer at that one.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

I thought ALL dog parks were bad. SAN MARCOS, TX is pretty easy to break down. The locals are usually low income, 4-6 kids, and they own pit bulls or rotties as guard dogs. The college kids are rich, white, and NOT responsible. They buy dogs to show off to their friends. Also own pits or other "cool" breeds like huskies, german shepherds, bull dogs, etc. (Obviously there are a few variations here and there, like ME  )

Anyways, the dog park here *SUCKS SUCK SUCKS!*

The dogs at this park
-CHARGE your dog when it walks in
-ATTACK one another
-Fight over toys and treats
-Gang up on one dog and chase it as a pack

Unfortunately, the poor locals can't afford training and the college kids are generally too LAZY and want beer, not a good dog.

I only go here between 6AM and 8AM because the only other people that show up at that time are the responsible owners that go early to avoid the bad crowd that goes from about 12 until 6pm. Our best friends are a pitbull and a st bernard that have gone through training classes too!

---------------------
SUGARLAND, TX
is basically RICH white and asian families. Everything is new and expensive. We literally have 1-2 murders in the news every 6 months. THe cops biggest job is to catch kids with weed. All the families compete---best house, best job, best boob job, BEST TRAINED dog!

It is AWESOME! We took my sister's puppy to the HUGE dog park. I warned her not to let other dogs charge at the puppy.

When we went in, there were over 50 dogs in there and ONLY ONE ran at us...but the second its owner called, it ran back to him without reaching us. Every dog was focused on its owner, doing the agility courses, swimming in the lake, etc. It was AWESOME.

The only incident was a mini pomeranian that was the color of a bunny...a dog walked up to it and it literally SQUEALED like a bunny, and at least 30 of the dogs started chasing it. By the time the owner got to it (They were in the small dog park with their other dog..how dumb), the dog was bleeding every where.

YEah, the dogs were well trained...but when the thing started screaming/squealing and running like a bunny, the big dogs didn't even know if it was a dog or a rabbit!! They couldn't even hear their owners calling over the noises of barking and owners yelling.

It was really sad...the POM owner said they were going to sue two of the other owners...but all us big dog owners stuck together. There is a sign that says little dogs aren't even allowed in the big side...they broke the rule. Their fault.

Konotashi, I have no problem with you goign on the big side but let this tale be cautionary for you....your beautiful pup could be confused as prey by bigger dogs 

So summary.....rich neighborhood---well trained dogs. poor neighborhood---avoid dog park.

Obviously this isn't true of all places, but it is just my experience.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> So summary.....rich neighborhood---well trained dogs. poor neighborhood---avoid dog park.
> 
> Obviously this isn't true of all places, but it is just my experience.


Well, yes, it's a horrible generalization, but we drive half an hour to the 40 acre dog park in the well-to-do area rather than going to the 3 acre dog park 8 minutes from our home in a much less affluent area.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

I tend to leave now when a small dog comes into the big dog side. I've gotten tired of feeling obligated to save someone elses small dog that looks like a snack from a higher prey drive dog. I know it's owner's ignorance, but I find it hard to watch a small dog get taken down by a large dog and do nothing about it. And, it happens.....frequently.

Exp. One time there were three greyhounds and four huskies on the large dog side. One GSD (mine) who does live with two cats and a squeaky weasel dog. This lady from the small dog side decides to bring her resource guardy Coton pair into the big dog side.
Um, Cotons are smaller whitish (or these were) fluffy things. I did not stick around to see how the Greyhounds reacted.

I have a small dog and a large dog. This only due to the fact that my mother passed and no one wanted Zoey. She also had atrocious behavior and was an older dog. And, we all know older dogs can't be trained. (wink wink.....sarcasm/irony)
I NEVER take them to a fenced dog park at the same time. Not because of packing behavior or resource guarding but because Zoey is great with all sizes of dogs, I just don't know if all dogs are good with small dogs.

As far as the little dogs grouping at the gate......I just walk through them first, Zoey comes after me. If they don't move, oops! Size 9 1/2 little dude....I don't walk around them. (Or, wait for their owners to get off their rear ends to move them away from the gate)
If Zoey gets reactive and barrier aggressive with the little pack along the big dog side; she gets a correction if she decides to be a stubborn terrier about it....we leave. You can't do that at home, why would I let you do that outside the home?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I've never once been worried about my dog at the dog park. I have a GSD who is extremely playful and nice, but doesn't take crap from any dog and isn't afraid to show his guard dog side. I question other owners letting their dogs harass my dog. I will be the first one to split the two dogs up and I'm never afraid to grab another dog by the collar and let the two sit there and think about what they were doing, but when a little dog is clearly being aggressive with my dog, I always wonder what goes through the other owner's head while they are letting it continue.

I'm of the belief that it's my job to keep your dog safe if mine is clearly the aggressor, but if your dog is the one bothering my dog, I will allow it to play out until I see that my dog is clearly going to snap. We all have a right to be at the park, and I pay the yearly fee to use it, so I'm not going to leave because some small dog owner decided to bring their dog into the big dog area. What I will do is yell at the small dog owner if they feel their dog is getting threatened by the larger dogs, or if they try to correct my dog in any way for being playful with their dog.

I try to go to the larger parks, when I lived downtown I had to use a pretty small one, but now I go to a large one where you can redirect your dog and walk away. Last time we were at the park a "rogue" dog ran up behind me with the owner being all the way accross the park (about 5 minutes walking), Rooney got defensive and stopped this dog dead in its tracks with a nice calm take down. I felt bad for the dog, but it just kept coming trying to jump up on me, which is a no-no in Rooney's world. Rooney never got aggressive, but the dog was clearly intimidated by my dog. I don't get why owners allow their dogs to venture, like you said not all dogs at the park are friendly and its just not a risk I'm willing to take.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

I tried the dog park thing a few times. Banjo got fleas. He took exception to a Golden's amorous attempts with my leg. One small dog looked a bit too much like a squirrel. I quit going. The leg hump incident was kinda funny in retrospect, no real harm done to the Golden, but Banjo sure rolled him hard. The impact sound was ugly and I grabbed Banjo's harness with the quickness, it *could* have been really ugly had I not lifted Banjo off I suppose.


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## Sambuca (Mar 13, 2010)

I think Chelle pretty much summed it up!


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

paulag1955 said:


> The dog park we take Shasta to is really big - 40 acres. I wonder if this is why we don't see this pack-type behavior.
> 
> One thing I do see that I do not understand AT ALL is people letting their very small toddlers down on the ground. That is a tragedy waiting to happen.


We also have very large ones and have little problems.

My rule for dog parks: I'm there to exercise my dog, not have him be exercised by strange dogs.

I think fights happen usually because of two things: Dogs have spent too much time together and have started determining pack order, and strange dogs playing with each other and having a misunderstanding because they don't know each other well enough.

When you go to those giant dog parks where you just pass by a few dogs as you walk you don't encounter as many problems as those tiny ones where you can't walk your dog and the only thing your dog can do is play with a pack of other dogs.


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

My dog likes the dog park and so i put up with it. 
It would be different if he was a small dog but of course GSDs are not small. Frequently he is the largest dog in the park, and when there is another his size they usually cant really keep up with him if he decides to run around to avoid being pestered. Especially if they are overweight.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I watch Ozzy carefully, along with the other dogs to see their reactions with the others, and if he starts to approach an iffy dog, I call him off. Or if he starts to become a pest to another dog, I call him off. (He can be a bit excessive when playing). I don't let him do typical 'small dog' things.

Our first visit to the dog park was a little shocking. A chihuahua was harassing a pit bull. Chasing her, snapping at her, barking at her.... The pit put up with it for quite some time, and the owner didn't do or say anything... until the pit got fed up with it and started to 'attack' the Chi. This happened in the water, so the pit was throwing the thing around like a rag doll, in and out of water. All the other dogs formed a circle around them. Almost like a school fight, where the observers chant, "Fight, fight, fight!" 
I put 'attacked' in quotes, because the Chi was merely scared ****less. That pit bull could have very easily killed him if she wanted to. 

It bugs me when people bring the small dogs that will run away/bark at/try to bully the larger dogs, then their owners are completely stunned as to why the larger dog corrected their dog.

Thankfully, Ozzy pretty much acts like a larger dog. He just doesn't seem to realize how much smaller he is than everyone else. lol


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

The last time we were at the dog park was, apparently, spunky small dog day. Shasta was chased by a dachschund and some kind of small mixed-breed dog, probably under ten pounds. It's pretty embarrassing to see you 80 pound German Shepherd flee in terror behind Daddy's legs.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I haven't taken my GSD to the dog park yet and I don't know if its in the future, she is young and it would be good socialization, but my Golden Retriever was attacked by a Rottweiler at the dog park when he was the same age as my GSD. It was the most awful fight, I was on the ground holding the Rott's mouth open so it couldn't clamp down on my golden's head--the Rott's jaws were very close to his eyes. While I'm using all my power to hold this Rott, my boyfriend was trying to pull the Rott off and the owner of the Rott....standing there crying and screaming not to hurt her dog...this woman was a 100lbs soaking wet and didn't even attempt to stop her dog. Bad experience and since my GSD has more of an attitude then my golden did, I'm terrified of that happening again


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I think maybe I would carry something that would give me an advantage if I had to protect mysrlf and/or pooch from a large aggressive dog. I.E. mace or the like, or maybe a strong stick (a whack on the head will discourage most dogs if wielded hard enough!)


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i'm not opposed to dog parks. like you said
you have watch what's going on. i go to the dog
park and i also go to the woods near where i live.
there's a place in the woods that people meet
with their dogs. sometimes there's 25 dogs
running around everywhere. where the dogs play
the creek is low. lots of people cross the creek
on their horses in this area. they ride through
the dogs and the dogs never bother the horses.
one time a new comer with a Bouvier pup (4 months old)
was there and their pup went towards the horses barking.
several people went after the Bouvier. i was there many times 
after that incident and i never saw the Bouvier go after the horses
again.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

paulag1955 said:


> The dog park we take Shasta to is really big - 40 acres. I wonder if this is why we don't see this pack-type behavior.
> 
> One thing I do see that I do not understand AT ALL is people letting their very small toddlers down on the ground. That is a tragedy waiting to happen.


40 acres, wow. I believe ours is 8. 

I leave or don't go in if any human is less than a solid 4 foot tall. On our last visit, there was a boy that I think was retarded, probably about 10 years old. He was maybe close to 5 foot? but his movements were so... unpredictable. As dogs would pass him, he'd sort of "lunge out" towards the dog. He did that with Bailey and Bailey barked at him. He caught Bailey by surprise with his rather "erratic" movements. I felt bad and immediately got Bailey away, but that's a tough situation. The boy obviously loved dogs, but I think his dad needed to work with his son a bit more about how to act around strange dogs. I'd hate to hear the boy was bit by one he caught by surprise.



martemchik said:


> ....when a little dog is clearly being aggressive with my dog, *I always wonder what goes through the other owner's head while they are letting it continue..*..


Me, too. A little terrier was going bananas on Bailey the other day. Due to Bailey being used to my Shiba being a jerky dog at times, it doesn't phase him. He seems to really like most terrier's wild play styles. I wasn't concerned about the little dude hurting Bailey, I was concerned about Bailey hitting a point he snapped back on the terrier, so I was completely babysitting the situation. The owner came up and said something like, "I don't know why he acts like this, I don't want him to hurt your dog." I said, "Oh I'm not worried about that; I'm worried about when MY dog has had enough!" The owner just kind of looked at me like, ohhh. Hmmm. Very nice person, but I don't think he has a CLUE that it his dog will likely be injured or even killed at the dog park someday. That terrier might be 12 lbs soaking wet and he is very, very feisty with all the big dogs. 



Konotashi said:


> Thankfully, Ozzy pretty much acts like a larger dog. He just doesn't seem to realize how much smaller he is than everyone else. lol


I bet Ozzy and Bails would play really nice together. He absolutely loves the small feisty ones. 



llombardo said:


> I haven't taken my GSD to the dog park yet and I don't know if its in the future, she is young and it would be good socialization, but my Golden Retriever was attacked by a Rottweiler at the dog park when he was the same age as my GSD. It was the most awful fight, I was on the ground holding the Rott's mouth open so it couldn't clamp down on my golden's head--the Rott's jaws were very close to his eyes. While I'm using all my power to hold this Rott, my boyfriend was trying to pull the Rott off and the owner of the Rott....standing there crying and screaming not to hurt her dog...this woman was a 100lbs soaking wet and didn't even attempt to stop her dog. Bad experience and since my GSD has more of an attitude then my golden did, I'm terrified of that happening again


Wow, that is an AWFUL experience. I don't blame you, I'd be gun shy.


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

chelle said:


> The dog park is a very hot steaming topic here, and probably with many dog forums. I understand that. I'm fond of saying it is a CRAPSHOOT because that's just what it is. You never know what you're going to get from day to day.


Spinning the cylinder on a Smith & Wesson 686 and pointing it at your dog then squeezing the trigger is also a crap shoot. A one in seven chance your dog loses.

My dogs are important and my job is to protect them. I would guess that if you never know what will happen and you continue to go, that extra exposure would at some point likely result in a disaster. 

Is your dogs safety worth the risk for a couple minutes of nonessential free roaming?


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

MountainGSDs said:


> *Spinning the cylinder on a Smith & Wesson 686 and pointing it at your dog then squeezing the trigger is also a crap shoot. A one in seven chance your dog loses.*
> 
> My dogs are important and my job is to protect them. I would guess that *if you never know what will happen and you continue to go, that extra exposure would at some point likely result in a disaster*.
> 
> Is your dogs safety worth the risk for a couple minutes of nonessential free roaming?


That's a little dramatic, don't you think? 

Do you take your dogs anywhere? There's a risk. Do you take them offleash at any time? That's a risk. I guess we all choose which risks we want to take and weigh the benefits. I would say that I do all of the above. Color me risky.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Anybody taking their dog (esp. a young one) to the typical wide open dog park is taking a risk based on what other folks take to the dog park and their attitude toward their own and other's dogs. 

I choose, and have chosen from when my guy was a young dog, not to take the risk for the very questionable benefit of a dog park visit.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

MountainGSDs said:


> Is your dogs safety worth the risk for a couple minutes of nonessential free roaming?


Honestly I've had more problems from leashed dogs meeting my dog than dogs at the dog park. I don't consider it a risk to my dog's safety any more than meeting any dog, even a leashed one, is a risk to his safety. And the opportunity he gets to run as fast and far as he can when he chases a ball, or to swim in the river, is worth it. Sometimes we don't even see any dogs, especially when we go to the bigger dog park :shrug:.

This is the smaller one of the dog parks that I go to. It's not a 'stand around and watch your dog play' kind of park. It's a bunch of trails by a river:


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

MountainGSDs said:


> Spinning the cylinder on a Smith & Wesson 686 and pointing it at your dog then squeezing the trigger is also a crap shoot. A one in seven chance your dog loses.


That is definitely not the case here... I've gone to the dog parks and dog beaches way more than 7 times and I've never had or seen an issue with aggression, fighting, questionable dogs in the dog park, etc... In my experience most owners are attentive to their dogs and intervene if their dog is playing too rough or behaving inappropriately. 
Where I live basically the only places you can let your dog off leash are either the dog parks/beaches, dog daycare or in your own backyard(only if it's fully fenced) unless you are in an off leash training class. So it's not just a matter of a few minutes of extra off leash time, but rather for many dogs it is the only safe/legal opportunity for off leash time.


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## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

We have three of those dog parks that are just trails, creeks, wooded areas. I love them. I leash up if I see another dog- typically others do the same. Generally, the dogs at this park are a million times better-behaved than the dogs at the small, crowded, anything-goes park.

There is also a small dog park that is a 2 minute walk (through a park) from my house. When I'm walking Dax we sometimes do stop at this park so that he can run around off leash. But I only go if there are no other dogs and if someone shows up we immediately leave. People probably think we are antisocial jerks, oh well! It isn't because of them, it is because I do not think know that my dog will behave properly.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Ive never had an issue with MY dogs at a dog park. Mine are pretty non-confrontational and put off good vibes. GASP, they also do daycare (while under my supervision when I worked in the daycare field). I believe in letting them learn that they can't be the boss all the time and how to have doggie manners while playing.

The issue I DO have is when owners sit on their butts, yards from their dogs, and when a fight breaks out NOBODY will try to stop it. Since I worked in the daycare field, I am used to stopping fights, but nothing irks me like trying to relax with my dogs and having to get in the middle of a huge dog fight because none of the owners know how to handle their own dogs.

I love having a place to throw the ball off leash for my shepherd, and let my lab roam without worrying about him running off. They don't play much with other dogs while they're there. Fine by me! If city officials wouldn't ticket me for letting my dogs off leash in a city park, I wouldn't have to use them. Since that's not the case, I use the parks to my advantage.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

What Shaina said. Many owners seem to be more into conversing with other owners then paying attention to their dogs. So I have to be the one to point out that their dog is having difficulties, or eating poop, or whatever. It is interesting to see how a dog can seem to be the aggressor in one minute and running away the next... from the same dog ... then vice versa. Almost like they have split personalities.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> What Shaina said. Many owners seem to be more into conversing with other owners then paying attention to their dogs. So I have to be the one to point out that their dog is having difficulties, or eating poop, or whatever. It is interesting to see how a dog can seem to be the aggressor in one minute and running away the next... from the same dog ... then vice versa. Almost like they have split personalities.


Agree and glad to see you back in action.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

chelle said:


> Agree and glad to see you back in action.


((( chelle )))
Hopefully, I have learned to behave.
Dog parks are good for teaching that.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> ((( chelle )))
> Hopefully, I have learned to behave.
> Dog parks are good for teaching that.


:rofl: Maybe. 

But you know, the forum is a lot like a dog park, if you think about it! :laugh:


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

chelle said:


> :rofl: Maybe.
> 
> But you know, the forum is a lot like a dog park, if you think about it! :laugh:


Amen to that!
nuff said on that before my E-collar goes off


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

So does anyone have any good way to stop a life and death battle between two dogs ?? 
I was thinking of pepper spray or maybe one of those super loud air horns. Obviously, I wouldnt want any permanant damage to mine or anyone elses dog.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

PatternDayTrader said:


> So does anyone have any good way to stop a life and death battle between two dogs ??
> I was thinking of pepper spray or maybe one of those super loud air horns. Obviously, I wouldnt want any permanant damage to mine or anyone elses dog.


Be vigalent and don't let it get to that point. I don't know the legality of using pepper spray to stop such a situation, but I can promise you that most people will not be happy with you if you pepper sprayed their dog.


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

martemchik said:


> Be vigalent and don't let it get to that point. I don't know the legality of using pepper spray to stop such a situation, but I can promise you that most people will not be happy with you if you pepper sprayed their dog.


 
Legal schmeagle... I will do whatever it takes to stop a real life and death fight. If another owner has a problem with it, well all I can say is I wont be backing down under any circumstances.
I rarely bark, I just bite.

Obviously, avoiding the situation in the first place is the best thing to do. The reason i posted the question is so i could be prepared, in case a situation occurs that cannot be avoided. 
I dont pretend that bad things never happen...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

PatternDayTrader said:


> So does anyone have any good way to stop a life and death battle between two dogs ??
> I was thinking of pepper spray or maybe one of those super loud air horns. Obviously, I wouldnt want any permanant damage to mine or anyone elses dog.


Depends on the dogs, no doubt but zi heard to grab each one by the hind legs and pull backward (so they can't reach the puller!) But not if they have "locked on" in a bite. Or maybe use a "break stick" (from the pit bull ring) but have no knowledge of this either.

All in all, in the middle of a serious fight is no place to be!

Also heard that a hose can work (BIG powerful blast of water!).

if it was between my dog and a strange dog - big club would be my choice!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't know how many of those fights you have seen, but for all the ones I've seen, pepper spray would be a complete over reaction and could possibly ruin a dog for life. So if you feel like dealing with an owner, at a PUBLIC dog park after such a reaction, feel free. I have not seen a fight where grabbing a collar and pulling the two dogs apart hasn't worked.

Also, if you've ever seen pepper spray used, it gets everybody in the immediate area, which is where your legal problems are probably going to come from. My best advice is, if you think there is even a tiny possibility of your dog getting in a fight like that, you should leave and come back when the other dog isn't there.


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Depends on the dogs, no doubt but zi heard to grab each one by the hind legs and pull backward (so they can't reach the puller!) But not if they have "locked on" in a bite. Or maybe use a "break stick" (from the pit bull ring) but have no knowledge of this either.
> 
> All in all, in the middle of a serious fight is no place to be!
> 
> ...


 
I watched a youtube vid about how to use a break stick. I suppose its possible that it would work but seems like your going to need to be too precise during a moment of total chaos, and it seems unlikely that one person would be able to work the process on two dogs at the same time. Still, I will remember how to use a break stick. 
A hose will probably will work, but i was thinking of the dog park where there wont nessasarily be one avaliable. 
The more that i think about it the more I want to try the 120 decible air horn. Our mail carrier has somekind of dog repellant that wont cause permanant harm to a dog but its just pepper spray with a different label.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Interesting thing at the dog park: Yesterday Abby was playing and chasing with the other dogs then we noticed a blood stain in the snow (lucky there was snow). Abby had cut a pad. Soon after that one of the dogs went after her (black lab) with less than good intentions. Chased her all over the place before I could intervene. I am guessing he picked up on her 'weakened' state. Fortunately, even with a cut foot he couldn't catch her. No harm done. Quick trip to vet and $160 later she has a bandaged foot. Lesson learned: things can go south in a hurry at a dog park.


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

PatternDayTrader said:


> So does anyone have any good way to stop a life and death battle between two dogs ??
> I was thinking of pepper spray or maybe one of those super loud air horns. Obviously, I wouldnt want any permanant damage to mine or anyone elses dog.


Don't put them in the situation.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

PaddyD said:


> *Lesson learned: things can go south in a hurry at a dog park.*


This should be a plaque, and hung on all dog park entrances.


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

MountainGSDs said:


> Don't put them in the situation.


 
No kidding ? What a brilliant plan ! I never would have thought of that ! 

And as we all know, as long as "your not ever going to put them in the situation" that means everyone else on gods green earth will also "not put them in that situation" so a dog fight must actually be impossible.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

martemchik said:


> I don't know how many of those fights you have seen, but for all the ones I've seen, pepper spray would be a complete over reaction and could possibly ruin a dog for life. So if you feel like dealing with an owner, at a PUBLIC dog park after such a reaction, feel free. I have not seen a fight where grabbing a collar and pulling the two dogs apart hasn't worked.
> 
> Also, if you've ever seen pepper spray used, it gets everybody in the immediate area, which is where your legal problems are probably going to come from. My best advice is, if you think there is even a tiny possibility of your dog getting in a fight like that, you should leave and come back when the other dog isn't there.


My guess would be that you have never been unfortunate to witness a serious dog fight between two dogs trying to kill each orther.

Pepper spray would not be real effective with dogs in that stage of agitation.

Next time (or first time) try grabbing either dogs collar and then you could probably send us a report from the ER (if you can still type!).


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

PatternDayTrader said:


> No kidding ? What a brilliant plan ! I never would have thought of that !
> 
> And as we all know, as long as "your not ever going to put them in the situation" that means everyone else on gods green earth will also "not put them in that situation" so a dog fight must actually be impossible.


 
Heh! Heh!


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

The OP is why I love the dog park where I work and take my dogs. NOT all dog parks are like this and we've never had an issue with any of the things mentioned here at our park.  

We strictly enforce rules and regulations, monitor members and dogs, and screen everyone accordingly. We have high standards, but it keeps everyone safe and friendly.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

DJEtzel said:


> The OP is why I love the dog park where I work and take my dogs. NOT all dog parks are like this and we've never had an issue with any of the things mentioned here at our park.
> 
> We strictly enforce rules and regulations, monitor members and dogs, and screen everyone accordingly. We have high standards, but it keeps everyone safe and friendly.


Yes, I've seen all those things at our park, which is why I wrote that in the first place. But it isn't as though those things all happen on the same day at the same time.. just that they do occur. Some of those things more often than others. 

Stricter enforcement would be wonderful. I assume you work at a private park. We have a private park about 40 minutes from home. I'm very strongly considering checking that out this spring. Bailey has to be "evaluated" first. I think that's a great thing that they require that.

Really, I think this board should have a sticky about the dangers and benefits of dog parks. Not necessarily what I posted, but something like it (actually don't use what I wrote because I left something out) and mention of the option of private parks. Dog parks are a very popular thing to do and most people who aren't dog people go in very blind as to what they're often like. It makes me just cringe to see good-intentioned people come in with their 7-8 week old pups and set them down in the midst of the pack of big dogs.


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

PatternDayTrader said:


> No kidding ? What a brilliant plan ! I never would have thought of that !
> 
> And as we all know, as long as "your not ever going to put them in the situation" that means everyone else on gods green earth will also "not put them in that situation" so a dog fight must actually be impossible.


I've spent the last 35 years in places most people wouldn't venture. Situational awareness and avoidance can be the best tools you have. 
Why would I put an animal in a situation where I am not close enough to avoid what could be a fatal attack?

IMHO public dog parks are a place I will not allow my dogs in but if it was a well monitored private park that allows only their clients in them I would consider it.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

MountainGSDs said:


> I've spent the last 35 years in places most people wouldn't venture. Situational awareness and avoidance can be the best tools you have.
> Why would I put an animal in a situation where I am not close enough to avoid what could be a fatal attack?
> 
> IMHO public dog parks are a place I will not allow my dogs in but if it was a well monitored private park that allows only their clients in them I would consider it.


I respect your feelings and everyone's feelings when it comes to dog parks. 

I also agree on situational awareness and avoidance, in many cases.

I don't feel my dog faces a likelihood of a fatal attack at the park. There is a small risk he could be involved in a fight at some point. I say small because he is very dog friendly (at this point in time) and it will not be him that instigates another (with the way his attitude is now). Therefore, if I am vigilent of the dogs in the park and I leave when necessary, I can minimize this risk down very low. This risk does not outweigh the benefit at this time. 

A dog fight can occur at a private park as well. Probably less likely, but the risk is still there, even if it is minimized more so.

I don't know what you've done for 35 years, as you say... but it isn't as though I don't understand, but maybe on a different level. I spent 15+ years driving a truck, 10 or so of them over the road. I've been in every major city center in this beautiful country trying to navigate 70 foot of tractor trailer thru narrow streets and high crime areas. I do know how to keep a cool head under pressure and how to analyze surroundings. Maybe that gives me confidence to deal with a dog park. I don't know.

Anyway, sorry to ramble. The entire point of the post was to actually be informative and let people on the fence about the dog park know what to watch out for. I think I need to re-write it, as I left out some things that are coming to mind thru the responses.

But again, I respect anyone's decisions on whether to go or not go.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

chelle said:


> Yes, I've seen all those things at our park, which is why I wrote that in the first place. But it isn't as though those things all happen on the same day at the same time.. just that they do occur. Some of those things more often than others.
> 
> Stricter enforcement would be wonderful. I assume you work at a private park. We have a private park about 40 minutes from home. I'm very strongly considering checking that out this spring. Bailey has to be "evaluated" first. I think that's a great thing that they require that.
> 
> Really, I think this board should have a sticky about the dangers and benefits of dog parks. Not necessarily what I posted, but something like it (actually don't use what I wrote because I left something out) and mention of the option of private parks. Dog parks are a very popular thing to do and most people who aren't dog people go in very blind as to what they're often like. It makes me just cringe to see good-intentioned people come in with their 7-8 week old pups and set them down in the midst of the pack of big dogs.


Yes, I know what can happen so easily at most public parks. And yes, I do work at a private dog park. 

I agree that a sticky would be useful here, to highlight things to avoid at dogs parks, perhaps specific dog parks to avoid, things to look for to know a park is "good" or "safe", and maybe a list of private parks across the country that we approve of, too. Mods?


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> Yes, I know what can happen so easily at most public parks. And yes, I do work at a private dog park.


That is why I made that statement, Usually privates are controlled by the owner which is a kennel, training facility or club and is accessed by members or those that have had some type of training or testing and monitored by somebody. Very different then public.

By nature I'm a risk taker. Work and hobbies are high risk but those lives that I am responsible for (family, dogs and employees) are on a different level. 

Leerburg | Dog Parks Why they are a Bad Idea


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

codmaster said:


> My guess would be that you have never been unfortunate to witness a serious dog fight between two dogs trying to kill each orther.
> 
> Pepper spray would not be real effective with dogs in that stage of agitation.
> 
> Next time (or first time) try grabbing either dogs collar and then you could probably send us a report from the ER (if you can still type!).


 
I have a feeling that your right about pepper spray probably not being effective during a serious fight.
.


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

MountainGSDs said:


> I've spent the last 35 years in places most people wouldn't venture. Situational awareness and avoidance can be the best tools you have.
> Why would I put an animal in a situation where I am not close enough to avoid what could be a fatal attack?
> 
> IMHO public dog parks are a place I will not allow my dogs in but if it was a well monitored private park that allows only their clients in them I would consider it.


 
While your avoiding the dog park, I will be learing how to properly mange the associated risks, and enjoying the rewards. 

The irony here is because I am prepared, my dog will most likely never be in a fight, and becasue I am prepared, eventually I will probably be breaking up a fight between two dogs whoses owners who will be panicing on the sidelines thinking about how they "never would put themselves in this situation".


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

PatternDayTrader said:


> While your avoiding the dog park, I will be learing how to properly mange the associated risks, and enjoying the rewards.
> 
> The irony here is because I am prepared, my dog will most likely never be in a fight,


And if he is how far from you is the furthest location in the park if it happens there? How fast can you srint across the park and what if the pack mentality sets in and other dogs join in? How long does it take for a K9 tooth to hit an artery? 
Are you sure playing with other dogs is a necessity for dogs? Does it enhance their life or cause stress?


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

MountainGSDs said:


> And if he is how far from you is the furthest location in the park if it happens there? How fast can you srint across the park and what if the pack mentality sets in and other dogs join in? How long does it take for a K9 tooth to hit an artery?
> Are you sure playing with other dogs is a necessity for dogs? Does it enhance their life or cause stress?


 
You have made it very clear that you are not going to consider the possibility of your dog getting into a fight, and therefore do not need an action plan should such an unfortunate incident occur. I hope your right.


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

PatternDayTrader said:


> You have made it very clear that you are not going to consider the possibility of your dog getting into a fight, and therefore do not need an action plan should such an unfortunate incident occur. I hope your right.


After all my years of owning and training my dogs have only been attacked twice seriously. Both were on walks by unleashed dogs and they were able to hold a sit stay while I dealt with the threat.

My guess is you are young, not your fault and perhaps even fairly new to dog ownership. Are you by any chance a parent to skin kids? What is the level of risk you find acceptable there?


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

MountainGSDs said:


> My guess is you are young, not your fault and perhaps even fairly new to dog ownership. Are you by any chance a parent to skin kids? What is the level of risk you find acceptable there?


Mountain
You have now successfully jacked this thread topic into somthing that is totally unrecognizable in the context of the original post. I dont know what your motivation is. In an effort to get you to stop, how about I just go ahead and say your right, Im wrong, your cool, Im a loser and your dog is better than mine. 
Are you happy now ??


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

MountainGSDs said:


> Are you sure playing with other dogs is a necessity for dogs? Does it enhance their life or cause stress?


Necessity, no. Enhance, dramatically, they love it! Stress..I have seen a dog here and there stressed in the parks, but it is an oddity.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm an experienced dog owner and I couldn't get the dog off of my puppy...pepper spray would not have worked. With this being said, there is NO WAY to predict when a dog fight will happen or how it will start. This situation happened to be a Rottweiler doing the attacking...do I think Rotts belong in a dog park? I'm still up in the air about that one. My mom has always had Rotts they can be good dogs, so its all about control. And needless to say most people that take their dogs to the dog park have not gone through extensive training with their dog to be able to call them away from danger...which can happen 5 to a 100 ft away in a dog park. Attached is a picture of my puppy--he was about 4 months or so when this happened. He had a pretty deep puncture wound, thankfully not his eye, although the Rotts teeth were clamped down pretty darn close....After about $1000.00 in vet bills and obedience training with a Rott being present my puppy pulled through and has no fear of bigger dogs...then again he is now a big dog himself


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I'm an experienced dog owner and I couldn't get the dog off of my puppy...pepper spray would not have worked.


 
How did you finally get them seperated ?


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

I was a big believer in dog parks, and couldn't understand why so many of my friends on here are against them....until now, I taken Thor to the same dog park since he was 2months(all his shots)and at times some of the bigger dogs got a lil rough with him, but never to where they were hurting him. Thor is now 13months, and I will not take him back, he's not the lil cute puppy that other dogs can chase or nibble or try to hump on anymore. I had decided not to take him back, but the stubborn part of me got the best of me, I took him hiking, with no leash and he loves it, but on the way back from the trails he could hear the dogs barking so his tail started to waggle back n forth, so I took him, and at first some of the dogs came at US at the gate, a couple of pups were jumping on him, once I got him to focus on me n the dogs got away from us I started to walk n he followed, the same pups came at him and he started to play with them, but as big as Thor is, and his big paws, which he uses to pin dogs down n put his weight on them so they stop moving, I got Thor of the pit puppy, my son RJ started to throw the balls n playing fetch with Thor, and Thor was being a very good teenager, minding his own business, on one of the throws a bigger blue pit came to Thor and started to sniff him, and out of nowhere tried to hump Thor, well this didn't go to well with Thor, in a split second Thor had him by the throat, with his paws on the pits body, and shaking and dragging the poor pit, It was very hard, and I had never seen that side or knew Thor had a darker side to him, the owner of the pit just stood their while I was trying to pry Thors K9's of the pits neck, my son was shaken by this and so were others, but I was more upset with the owner of the pit for not helping me or allowing his dog to even attempt that. It seemed like a eternity before I was able to get Thor of him, but it was just a few seconds, the pit was so scared that while he was being attacked by Thor he was urinating. Once I separated them, and looked around everyone gave me the evil look and were feeling sorry for the pit without knowing what had happened. The regulars that I see or used to see were more understanding, but I just don't ever want to put him in a situation where I feel I have to defend him when all he did was react to a dog that wasn't being watched or trained properly by the owner. No more dog parks for Thor, just hiking from here on out. I uploaded some pics of different ages of Thor at the park with my son RJ, and a few to show his gentle side, and one I took yesterday to show his size n torso....


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

rjThor said:


> the owner of the pit just stood their while I was trying to pry Thors K9's of the pits neck, my son was shaken by this and so were others, but I was more upset with the owner of the pit for not helping me...


So what did you do to finally get them apart ??


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

PatternDayTrader said:


> So what did you do to finally get them apart ??


I got desperate, and it might have been dumb on my part, but as I stood over Thor, I put my fingers in his mouth, and as I squeezed them in, I used my other hand to pry it open.....It was a sad thing to see, and it really shook my son and I.


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

rjThor said:


> I got desperate, and it might have been dumb on my part, but as I stood over Thor, I put my fingers in his mouth, and as I squeezed them in, I used my other hand to pry it open.....It was a sad thing to see, and it really shook my son and I.


Couldnt have been too dumb if you got the job done when it actually mattered.
The "break stick" method uses a short lever such as a plastic tent steak to pry open the jaws, which sounds similiar to how you used your hand.


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## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

PatternDayTrader said:


> Couldnt have been too dumb if you got the job done when it actually mattered.
> The "break stick" method uses a short lever such as a plastic tent steak to pry open the jaws, which sounds similiar to how you used your hand.


Thank you, and I've never heard of that method, I don't carry anything with me when on a hike or at the park, just water, but I guess my instincts took over and was in desperation, didn't even think about Thor biting me, was more worried about the Pit biting down on my hand once I got Thor of him, but the pit was shaken up and just laid their. We took Thor out of the park, but had mixed emotions, the pitt did try to hump him or show dominance over Thor, so I didn't want to confuse him, on his confidence so I just brought him home, and now I know never to take him to a dog park..


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

PatternDayTrader said:


> Mountain
> You have now successfully jacked this thread topic into somthing that is totally unrecognizable in the context of the original post. I dont know what your motivation is. In an effort to get you to stop, how about I just go ahead and say your right, Im wrong, your cool, Im a loser and your dog is better than mine.
> Are you happy now ??


 Is that what it comes to when you run out of reason or............


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

MountainGSDs said:


> That is why I made that statement, Usually privates are controlled by the owner which is a kennel, training facility or club and is accessed by members or those that have had some type of training or testing and monitored by somebody. Very different then public.
> 
> By nature I'm a risk taker. Work and hobbies are high risk but those lives that I am responsible for (family, dogs and employees) are on a different level.
> 
> Leerburg | Dog Parks Why they are a Bad Idea


Agreed, privates are surely better, BUT THERE'S STILL A RISK. So, to some lesser extent, you ARE willing to take the risk, but only after minimizing it? I can't say that's a bad thing by any means...

The Leerburg article is pretty decent, but I don't agree with all said there.



MountainGSDs said:


> And if he is how far from you is the furthest location in the park if it happens there? How fast can you srint across the park and what if the pack mentality sets in and other dogs join in? How long does it take for a K9 tooth to hit an artery?
> Are you sure playing with other dogs is a necessity for dogs? Does it enhance their life or cause stress?


Why should you need to "sprint across the park?" Your dog should never be that far from you. Bailey *might* get 50 foot away. Maybe. I'm always on the move. 



llombardo said:


> .....With this being said, there is NO WAY to predict when a dog fight will happen or how it will start....


I really can't agree with this. I am really sorry your dog had that happen and I'm not saying there was anything in your case you could've picked up on, but I think in the majority of squabbles, you *can* see it coming. You can see the tension developing between some dogs, the posturing, the jealousy over a ball, etc. 



rjThor said:


> ,,,,and now I know never to take him to a dog park..


And that's a decision an owner may eventually make. I may come to this conclusion myself, totally dependent on the park and my own dog. Our park is pretty new and next spring I expect people to come out of the woodwork with dogs. When we got our new 2012 city dog license renewals, there was an added box for the new dog park. A trip or two ago, a woman said, "I noticed the dog park option on my renewal, so I decided why not! I didn't even know about the park until I got my renewal!" And she won't be the only one by a long shot. I expect my park to be literally overrun. I am sorry for your bad experience at the park, though.  


I didn't intend this to be a post about the negatives of the dog park, just more to be informative. I guess I don't care that it took some turns. :laugh: It's bound to happen when you talk about dog parks. I'm not irresponsible for taking my dog there and "you" are not irresponsible for not doing so. My dog enjoys playing with dogs and that's that.


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## muddypaw (Jan 8, 2012)

I stopped going to our dog park. It was filled with too many idiots with agressive, unsupervised dogs. One Border collie chased my dog all over the place; I was trying to get to my dog - she was ignoring my recall and would'nt stop runnning because this idiot dog is *growling* and *nipping* at her butt as they are running. Good thing Shadow is FAST, that dog never caught her. The owner finally came and got his dog. 

Its a shame, since my dog loved playing on all the agility apparatus at the dog park..So I enrolled her in an agility class instead. 

I have a friend with a 6 year old retriever that comes over to my house for "playdates". Our dogs get along quite well


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## MountainGSDs (Jul 25, 2011)

chelle said:


> Agreed, privates are surely better, BUT THERE'S STILL A RISK. So, to some lesser extent, you ARE willing to take the risk, but only after minimizing it? I can't say that's a bad thing by any means...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Life is all about what risk level you are willing to accept. Personally I take what may be considered extreme risks but with those that are in my custody (dogs, grandkids and such) I am way more conservative.

You staying near Bailey is being responsible, not everybody is like that. There is a 3 acre park near me and when I go by I see owners chatting and their dogs are way across the park. Doubtful they could help or control their dogs.

rjThor, the preferred method of breaking up a fight best works with 2 people but can work with one and it uses working from behind and using the hind legs and centrifugal force.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

MountainGSDs said:


> Life is all about what risk level you are willing to accept. Personally I take what may be considered extreme risks but with those that are in my custody (dogs, grandkids and such) I am way more conservative.
> 
> *You staying near Bailey is being responsible, not everybody is like that.* There is a 3 acre park near me and when I go by I see owners chatting and their dogs are way across the park. Doubtful they could help or control their dogs.


I respect everyone's various decisions. If a person wants to go to the dog park, but is nervous about it (generalizing, not speaking about you, Mountain GSDs,) then they probably shouldn't go. Aware, alert -- great. Nervous, worried -- not great, sends the wrong vibes not only to the dog you're bringing in, but the dogs you'll encounter. Considering you may have to "reprimand" those dogs, you can't come across as nervous and worried. 

I'll go so far as to say that you need to have the right dog for the park, but you also need the right owner. I've seen a number of "newbies" come into the park with their dog... their dog gets a major sniff-and-greet by a good 5-6+ dogs (on a busy day), the dog is overwhelmed, the pack sometimes increases its craziness instead of calming down when the newcomer submits... and the owner is standing there like, GEEZ PEOPLE CALL YOUR DOGS OFF (but they don't _say_ it - it's just the look in their eyes) -- but the other owners don't because they're barely _noticing_ as they sit at the frikkin' picnic table. I don't get into anyone's business if my dog is not involved, but in this instance, I get really peeved. If Bailey is involved in this, it gives me the excuse to walk right thru the pack and say something like, OK, OK, break it up dingdongs, let's give him some room. Done in the guise of controlling my dog, with a side benefit of breaking the other nutballs up and giving the newcomer a break. And you know, that is usually very effective. Just one human to walk thru the pack and assert a little authority. AND this also gets the picnic table peoples' attention, when someone else is reprimanding their dog(s). Usually. 

Anyway, yes, thank you for your compliment, as I do like to believe myself extremely responsible at the park. I never sit. I always know exactly where my dog is and I'm very close by, if not right there. The dog park is NOT relaxing to me in the least; it's a good workout.  It's not our only exercise opportunity, by any means... We love walking the trails but this time of year, it is pitch black back there early. Makes me a little nervous. I'm really looking forward to having longer daylight hours, so we spend less time at the dog park and more time with other activities -- just Bails and me.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

PatternDayTrader said:


> How did you finally get them seperated ?



I was on the ground with the dogs holding the Rotts mouth open, which by the way was really close to locking--I want to say that it did. My boyfriend was pulling the Rott's back end and he had the Rott, my puppy, and me in the air. This dog would not let go. My boyfriend pulled out a knife and told the owner that he was going to kill the dog if it didn't release the puppy...the woman started crying, I was screaming don't kill the dog and finally this Rott just let go and was as calm as could be--like it never did anything wrong. Only then did its owner grab it and leash it--I was full of blood from the puppy, I had enough time to get the owners info, some witnesses phone numbers, grab my other dog and go to the vet. It was awful. I never went back to that dog park again. I have gone to another one that seemed to have mostly labs and retrievers which was a little better until a husky mounted my older lab and caused him damage too. I never brought the lab back there, he died shortly after that, but I did bring the original two dogs from the first dog park back there. I just tried to go when I thought it would be more empty. From what I seen at these places, the owners just kinda sit at picnic benches and the dogs do what they want...there is no real supervision.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

You are aware that NO dog "Locks" their jaws, don't you. Anatomically impossible!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm not going to say a dog park is either good or bad. To each its own, BUT the majority of people at the dog park do not watch their dogs, they do not know what to do when a fight breaks out, and they don't know how their dogs manners(humping and chasing another dogs ball, etc) will play out with a strange dog. I don't care if your five feet away from your dog, that five feet will feel like a mile when you see your own dog getting attacked. A dog fight can happen in a split second and God willing none of the dogs end up extremely hurt or dead. Its not even a matter of how well your own dog is trained, circumstances come into play that could never be expected...especially the wrong place at the wrong time scenario.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

codmaster said:


> You are aware that NO dog "Locks" their jaws, don't you. Anatomically impossible!


Well I'll tell you that I could NOT get this dogs jaws loose and I'm not a small person and my whole upper body hurt for a week from trying to hold that dogs mouth open....I can personally say that in this situation it sure the **** felt that way. So unless you can personally say that you have tried to hold open the jaws of a dog I don't care what is anatomically impossible. I was there and I felt the power that dog had in its jaws up close and personal.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

llombardo said:


> I was on the ground with the dogs holding the Rotts mouth open, which by the way was really close to locking--I want to say that it did. My boyfriend was pulling the Rott's back end and he had the Rott, my puppy, and me in the air. This dog would not let go. My boyfriend pulled out a knife and told the owner that he was going to kill the dog if it didn't release the puppy...the woman started crying, I was screaming don't kill the dog and finally this Rott just let go and was as calm as could be--like it never did anything wrong. Only then did its owner grab it and leash it--I was full of blood from the puppy, I had enough time to get the owners info, some witnesses phone numbers, grab my other dog and go to the vet. It was awful. I never went back to that dog park again. I have gone to another one that seemed to have mostly labs and retrievers which was a little better until a husky mounted my older lab and caused him damage too. I never brought the lab back there, he died shortly after that, but I did bring the original two dogs from the first dog park back there. I just tried to go when I thought it would be more empty. From what I seen at these places, the owners just kinda sit at picnic benches and the dogs do what they want...there is no real supervision.


What a horrible experience. I can't believe the Rott's owner was just standing around crying? Yikes. That's an owner completely in over their head with the breed they've chosen.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

But I didn't care if that dog shredded me to pieces, it was not going to kill my poor little puppy


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

llombardo said:


> But I didn't care if that dog shredded me to pieces, it was not going to kill my poor little puppy


This will sound super harsh, but I think I would've been kicking that dog in the ribs as hard as I could.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

llombardo said:


> Well I'll tell you that I could NOT get this dogs jaws loose and I'm not a small person and my whole upper body hurt for a week from trying to hold that dogs mouth open....I can personally say that in this situation it sure the **** felt that way. So unless you can personally say that you have tried to hold open the jaws of a dog I don't care what is anatomically impossible. I was there and I felt the power that dog had in its jaws up close and personal.


I've been in the same position before. Yeah, they're strong. That's common sense. They don't lock though. They're just stronger than you or I.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

llombardo said:


> Well I'll tell you that I could NOT get this dogs jaws loose and I'm not a small person and my whole upper body hurt for a week from trying to hold that dogs mouth open....I can personally say that in this situation it sure the **** felt that way. So unless you can personally say that you have tried to hold open the jaws of a dog I don't care what is anatomically impossible. I was there and I felt the power that dog had in its jaws up close and personal.


 
Just because you could not open the dog's jaws means nothing - they don't LOCK! (BTW, not even a pit bulls jaws can lock!)

Have you ever tried to open even a small dog's jaws when they bite something? My uneducated guess would be that it would also be very hard to do - even a small cat would be difficult. 

*That must have been very hard on you for your whole upper body to hurt for an entire week!*

Actually, now that I think of it, I *have *opened a large male GSD's jaws and held them open for a bit while I placed a pill in it a large number of times.

I would suggest that maybe you might want to look into getting and learning how to use a "Breakstick". I have heard that these can work very well to get one dog off another one. Might be a lot easier on you if there might be another time (certainly hope that it never happens to you again, though!).


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I have been going to the dog park for a good year and few months now. At least 2 if not 3 times a week. I've gone to 3 different parks in the Milwaukee area, and 1 park in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. I have seen plenty of dogs that shouldn't be at the park, but I have never once witnessed a dog walk out bleeding. Does it piss me off when an owner doesn't watch his dog and then my GSD reacts to the actions of the other dog? Absolutely! But I go to the other side of the park and avoid them.

The only thing that upsets me at the park is that as the GSD owner I have to be more vigilant. Lets be serious, only one type of dog can get in a fight with a GSD and be blamed for it, a pitbull. All other breeds can harass my dog as much as they want, and as soon as he reacts, it will be his fault. So I make sure he never has the opportunity to react. Sadly, he has reacted before, but the owners were understanding and knew that their dogs were at fault. None of these situations caused damage, we were all vigilant, and I'm still going to go. Many others wouldn't agree with my decision, but then I wouldn't agree with many people's other life decisions. Whats the point of arguing over a forum about it?


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