# Diarrhea - round two!



## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

Nonny has diarrhea again  I took him almost two weeks ago for diarrhea and tapes. He's been on meds for giardia and a pill for the tapes. I had him on the rice/ground meat diet for a few days, then back to raw. He did fine for about a week, now suddenly it's back. I noticed he picked up and tried to eat a piece of poo outside twice! and I thought I got it away from him both times. Literally, fished it out of his mouth. 

Last night, he was up at 12am, 4am, 5:30, 8am, .... Luckily he's kenneled at night and as much as I really wanted to sleep and as frustrated as I was to get up just ONE hour after I fell asleep, and each subsequent time, I'm glad he didn't soil his kennel. Good boy! 

The only difference is that I switched him from raw after his stools became a bit loose again after they'd firmed back up from the r/gm diet. I gave him Pedigree canned chicken and rice mixed with a cheap brand that I don't recall the name of but didn't have corn listed as the first ingredient. My chi also eats raw and has no issues, always been healthy. He also had some of the canned/dry mix that Nonny had and he hasn't had any problems at all. I also gave Nonny some plain dry this morning thinking this might help, but if anything he's gotten worse. Mostly just stayed the same. He's had three 1/2 tsp doses of Imodium that haven't helped one bit. Well, they were a little firmer the last time, but like melty soft-serve. I'm sure it's not the food, my Chi has had all of the same foods as Nonny and has had no problems. 

I'm afraid that what the vet gave for giardia isn't working. She gave me two things- one to give for five days and one for 10 or 14. Either way- he's back to diarrhea and way worse than it was before (round one, two weeks ago). Now it's cannoning out and gassy. The first round was mostly pudding-like and never watery; now it's watery. I've heard that this happens with raw sometimes at first and is nothing to worry about, but I'm worried. I can tell he doesn't feel well either. I know he needs to go back to the vet and I'll probably take him tomorrow. Don't worry, I won't let him suffer or deny him medical care. I would like to see if I can get this under control again before I have to have him tested for things. I can't afford that till next month. I feel so bad for him! I want to let him sleep with me tonight, but I'm scared he won't let me know he needs to go out and will just go on the floor  I really feel bad for him that he's suffering.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

"The only difference is that I switched him from raw after his stools became a bit loose again after they'd firmed back up from the r/gm diet. I gave him Pedigree canned chicken and rice mixed with a cheap brand that I don't recall the name of but didn't have corn listed as the first ingredient. My chi also eats raw and has no issues, always been healthy. He also had some of the canned/dry mix that Nonny had and he hasn't had any problems at all. I also gave Nonny some plain dry this morning thinking this might help, but if anything he's gotten worse."

Way too much "stuff" (less than quality food) for a dog who is under the weather! 

Is the skin off of your raw? Some dogs have problems with this.

IMHO, best thing for diarrhea is a combination of boiled, boneless, skinless, chicken breast shredded and mix with equal amounts of canned pumpkin (NO spices, just plain pumpkin). Then after his gut is settled for a few days, start adding in small amounts of raw and work back up to full raw.

Also, many, many people have had GREAT success with Kocci Free: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Amber-Technology-Kocci-Free/dp/B002MV9UDS[/ame]

A good Digestive Enzyme/ProBiotic will also help. The following are human grade products to help keep a healthy gut:
Sunday Sundae Nutritional Supplement 
The Wholistic Pet 

Hope your Baby gets better soon!
Moms


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with MOM,, stick to one type of food. The canned food will give my gsd wicked diarhea especially since I don't feed her canned.

I had some leftover from one of the other dogs that wasn't eating 'anything', I was trying ANYTHING to get him to eat, so to use it up, I was throwing some in Masi's food, BIG mistake! wicked wicked diarhea, stopped the canned, she's back to normal eating her raw.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

A girl and her dog said:


> . *He's had three 1/2 tsp doses of Imodium that haven't helped one bit.* Well, they were a little firmer the last time, but like melty soft-serve. I'm sure it's not the food, my Chi has had all of the same foods as Nonny and has had no problems.
> 
> I'm afraid that what the vet gave for giardia isn't working. She gave me two things- one to give for five days and one for 10 or 14. Either way- he's back to diarrhea and way worse than it was before (round one, two weeks ago). Now it's cannoning out and gassy. The first round was mostly pudding-like and never watery; now it's watery. I've heard that this happens with raw sometimes at first and is nothing to worry about, but I'm worried. I can tell he doesn't feel well either. I know he needs to go back to the vet and I'll probably take him tomorrow. Don't worry, I won't let him suffer or deny him medical care. I would like to see if I can get this under control again before I have to have him tested for things. I can't afford that till next month. I feel so bad for him! I want to let him sleep with me tonight, but I'm scared he won't let me know he needs to go out and will just go on the floor  I really feel bad for him that he's suffering.



First of all - Never use Immodium or any related type anti-diarrhea - This is on the MDR1 list and if this can cause seizures in MDR1 dogs, then I would think best to stay away even if not MDR1.

Maybe the drugs are killing off the parasites and the die-off is the issue causing the runny poop. Diarrhea is the bodies way to cleanse.

If you want to use something non toxic and will benefit by helping bind toxins, use "Activated Charcoal"....usually come 260mg. You can give 2 and then wait an hr. and give another 2.

I would give it several hrs. away from meds though as it may bind to that and flush out (which may also be a good thing).

Did your dog test positive for giardia or are they just throwing things out to see what sticks?

(oh, as already noted - stay away from the crap canned food too )


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Is he on Metronidazole for the giardia? A rare side effect of it actually causes diarrhea, which I had a vet deny could happen. lol My pups diarrhea was worse on the meds than with the giardia!

My pup did better on Panacur.

Clean everything with hot soapy water, sterilize floors with steam mop. Wash bedding in hot water, bath dog, wash toys EVERYTHING you can think of.

Good luck, I hate giardia with prejudice, I was dealing with it with my dog for months.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Get a case of AD can food from your vet. Also get some Floraforti. Giardia should be controlled with Albon. I prefer the liquid over the pills. Feed small amounts at at - like 1/4 to 1/3 of can every 3 hours of so. When you have 3 or 4 cans of food left, find a limited ingredient kibble or buy some chicken backs and replace one of the feelings with it. I like chicken backs to start because of the high bone content. Feed those for a week then go to chicken leg quarters. Do everything consistently.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Albon can be used for 10 days at a time. Then rest a week and then another round for 10 days. Make sure you keep them full of water - you may want to add some Pedilite with the water.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I haven't read any responses to your post so this may be a repeat but giardia almost always takes more than one round of treatment....sometimes even 3 rounds. Also be aware that the test can show negative if the parasites aren't sluffing off when the test is done. If you get a negative and still have loose stool, do another test in a couple of days. Has he been tested for coccidia? (different test than giardia).


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

OP - I am sorry that Nonny is having diarrhea again. Nobody else will say it but I would seriously take a look at the raw chicken being the culprit, lots of nasty bacteria in chicken. I know a lady that had a healthy dog and it became infected with Campylobacter from raw chicken and now has IBD and she used to feed a lot of raw.

Dogs *can *and *do *get sick from the bacteria in raw meat no matter what anyobody else tells you. I really don't care if people feed raw but it makes me sad to the dogs pay the price because of misinformation.

Maybe get in touch with *JJJ89*, he just found out his dog become sick from raw meat. http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/b-r-f-raw-feeding/401354-barf-not-my-dog-3.html

There is a diarrhea panel that our vet uses if Nikki gets unexplained diarrhea but it's not cheap, I think we paid $160 last time. http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresource...tes/realpcr-canine-feline-diarrhea-panels.pdf

Good luck and I hope he gets better soon.


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## AmyOle (Jul 17, 2013)

A second recommendation for Kocci Free-- it cleared up my kolachi's recurring diarrhea.


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

Momto2GSDs said:


> "The only difference is that I switched him from raw after his stools became a bit loose again after they'd firmed back up from the r/gm diet. I gave him Pedigree canned chicken and rice mixed with a cheap brand that I don't recall the name of but didn't have corn listed as the first ingredient. My chi also eats raw and has no issues, always been healthy. He also had some of the canned/dry mix that Nonny had and he hasn't had any problems at all. I also gave Nonny some plain dry this morning thinking this might help, but if anything he's gotten worse."
> 
> Way too much "stuff" (less than quality food) for a dog who is under the weather!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips! I didn't know about the skin. I forgot too that I gave them each a half of a pig foot. I'm guessing way too much skin there too. And other rich stuff that might be hard on the belly. I never really thought about it - my other one never had any problems except with beef and raw eggs. Those upset his tummy if given too often. 

I can't find plain pumpkin where I am so I fixed him up some ground meat and rice w/ chicken broth. We're still in the first 24hrs of rice mix so we'll see how it goes


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I agree with MOM,, stick to one type of food. The canned food will give my gsd wicked diarhea especially since I don't feed her canned.
> 
> I had some leftover from one of the other dogs that wasn't eating 'anything', I was trying ANYTHING to get him to eat, so to use it up, I was throwing some in Masi's food, BIG mistake! wicked wicked diarhea, stopped the canned, she's back to normal eating her raw.


Thanks, I'm glad I'm not alone in diarrhea land


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

GatorBytes said:


> First of all - Never use Immodium or any related type anti-diarrhea - This is on the MDR1 list and if this can cause seizures in MDR1 dogs, then I would think best to stay away even if not MDR1.
> 
> Maybe the drugs are killing off the parasites and the die-off is the issue causing the runny poop. Diarrhea is the bodies way to cleanse.
> 
> ...


I didn't know that about Imodium. The vet actually Rx'd it (otc) in his paperwork. Where do you get charcoal? It wouldn't be bad to have on hand. I'm not sure that they did any testing besides a straight fecal; I doubt she tested for giardia or coccidia and, like you said probably just threw the meds at it. 

I hated to even get the canned food! The only other stuff I will feed is in a log in the fridge section. I have some of that and will use it to transition from the rice/g.meat since he hasn't had any problems with that. My goal is to get him back to 100% raw sans diarrhea.


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

blackshep said:


> Is he on Metronidazole for the giardia? A rare side effect of it actually causes diarrhea, which I had a vet deny could happen. lol My pups diarrhea was worse on the meds than with the giardia!
> 
> My pup did better on Panacur.
> 
> ...


Yikes! That's a lot of steaming! I'd love to say I'll get right on that but I know better  Their bowls get washed in the dishwasher and the bedding done about once a week. The Chi has had no issues, so I'm not too worried about cross contamination. 

I would agree about the meds, but he did get better for a couple of days. it all started again when I put him back on raw, then really kicked in when I gave him the canned and bagged junk. He also ate some poop and I think that may be a part of it too.


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

Doc said:


> Get a case of AD can food from your vet. Also get some Floraforti. Giardia should be controlled with Albon. I prefer the liquid over the pills. Feed small amounts at at - like 1/4 to 1/3 of can every 3 hours of so. When you have 3 or 4 cans of food left, find a limited ingredient kibble or buy some chicken backs and replace one of the feelings with it. I like chicken backs to start because of the high bone content. Feed those for a week then go to chicken leg quarters. Do everything consistently.


 I like the chicken back idea. I had him on wings thinking that would be plenty of bone, if not too much - apparently not. Not sure what AD is, but I can check if the rice/g.meat doesn't get him back straight. 

And Albon is what we have and I'll ask about a second round if needed. He was on that and mont.


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> I haven't read any responses to your post so this may be a repeat but giardia almost always takes more than one round of treatment....sometimes even 3 rounds. Also be aware that the test can show negative if the parasites aren't sluffing off when the test is done. If you get a negative and still have loose stool, do another test in a couple of days. Has he been tested for coccidia? (different test than giardia).


No, not tested - vet just Rx'd based on possibilities. If I can't get it under control over the weekend, I'll go back.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

AD is either science diet or purina vet speciality product. It is a very good gastro food - nutritious yet easy on the tummy.


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

Heidigsd said:


> OP - I am sorry that Nonny is having diarrhea again. Nobody else will say it but I would seriously take a look at the raw chicken being the culprit, lots of nasty bacteria in chicken. I know a lady that had a healthy dog and it became infected with Campylobacter from raw chicken and now has IBD and she used to feed a lot of raw.
> 
> Dogs *can *and *do *get sick from the bacteria in raw meat no matter what anyobody else tells you. I really don't care if people feed raw but it makes me sad to the dogs pay the price because of misinformation.
> 
> ...


 I am considering that raw may not be for him. As I said though, my Chi eats raw and has since he was a pup and never had any problems. They ate the same meats at the same times from the same packages. Only Nonny got sick; otherwise, I would agree more with bacteria being the culprit. Not ruling it out though. I'm giving raw one last shot for him when he clears up and if it doesn't work out, I'll find a decent alternative.


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## mydogs (May 4, 2012)

Stop with this raw put your pup on a lower grade kibble like ProPlan sensitive stomach or vet prescribed kibble. My Dane had Giardia. Took 3 rounds to get rid of it. He was on vet kibble and tylan powder for 3 weeks plus digestive enzymes. Go simple on the food I don't agree with raw and bones fad. The digestive enzymes put the good bacteria back in his gut while you are killing the bad with the meds. A tablespoon of plain Greek yogurt is always good to give. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

mydogs said:


> Stop with this raw put your pup on a lower grade kibble like ProPlan sensitive stomach or vet prescribed kibble. My Dane had Giardia. Took 3 rounds to get rid of it. He was on vet kibble and tylan powder for 3 weeks plus digestive enzymes. Go simple on the food I don't agree with raw and bones fad. The digestive enzymes put the good bacteria back in his gut while you are killing the bad with the meds. A tablespoon of plain Greek yogurt is always good to give.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Was your dog on raw when he had giardia? I'm sorry you don't agree with raw. I don't agree with low grade or vet kibble. I'll give him what works when I find what that is. Obviously, he didn't do well at all on kibble either!


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## A girl and her dog (Jan 25, 2014)

Okay, so no BM's at all since Thursday when he was fasted. He's been on rice and ground meat since yesterday and we'll see how it goes. I want to give him a few days at least on that with healthy stools before changing anything.


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