# Male GSD Rescue Showing Agression Toward Our Son



## Carrie K (Mar 5, 2011)

I am new to the group and have learned a lot reading from postings. 

A month ago we adopted a 4 yr old male GSD. He is a rescue dog and there is little history about him, but what is known does not indicate a negative background. Gunner is our third GSD, although the only dog in the household, right now.

Gunner has been examined by our long-time vet, is healthy, had been settling in nicely, seems mellow, responsive and easy going, social and adaptable. We are aware there may be possible more complex behavior issues as he grows more comfortable in the household. He starts obedience classes in 10 days.

The household includes my husband, our teenaged son (a senior in HS), and three cats. Gunner leaves the cats alone and has bonded very well with my husband and me. Our son occasionally feeds, offers treats, plays and takes the dog out, but not nearly as much as my husband and I mostly because our son is busy with school and work and at home less than us.

Everything seemed to be going well until a week ago. Last weekend, our son came home in the late evening. Gunner was sleeping in his typical spot at my feet and woke suddenly when he heard the noise. The dog started to charge and growled. He stopped short as soon as my son identified himself. We thought that Gunner was just momentarily confused and protecting me from a possible stranger.

On Wednesday and Thursday, Gunner started to charge at our son again when came home. We were obviously concerned and recognized that our son needed to work on his bond with Gunner. We talked about offering more treats, walks and involvement on the weekends and our son agreed.

Friday morning, our son came into the living room, greeted the dog as he usually does, bent over to pet him and the dog barked aggressively, lunged up and bit our son's face. 

We are very thankful that our son jerked back and the bite is not serious. I was in the next room. It happened so fast that I did not see the bite happen, but I was there within a split second. The dog immediately looked remorseful, not aggressive. Later, I asked our son to describe Gunner's body language right before he bit, it was an alert stance. (we know that our son made a mistake to bend over and pet Gunner) No one reacted punitively after the bite. Obviously, we did put Gunner in his crate to focus on our son and ignored the dog while we took care of our son.

Since the bite, our son has tried to offer Gunner treats, and do a come and sit, but Gunner's behavior toward our son has changed. He seems fearful, will not accept treats or follow our son's commands. He continues to become very alert whenever our son enters a room, and has even charged a few more times at our son whenever the two are present in the same room. Our son's stance is not threatening in any way, but he is a big guy. Our son is now very fearful and we are all very worried. We know the two should work and train together, but our son is now afraid.

Gunner's entire demeanor toward everyone has been different for the last 24 hours. He is quieter, less outgoing and friendly.

We want to make this work for everyone and keep the dog, but we are worried. We do have an understanding of GSD's and our other two GSD's were rescues with issues that we needed to work through. But we have never experienced one of our dogs aggressive toward a family member. We understand that Gunner is most likely challenging his place in the house or "pack", but putting our son at possible risk while we work on things is a major worry.

Any suggestions or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Training doesn't start for over a week and we need to make sure everyone is safe.

Thank you for your help.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

First, thank you for rescuing Gunner and being dedicated to making it work with him and your son.

I can think of things to suggest and I'm sure many others have some ideas as well of things that could possibly work but the problem with giving those suggestions is that we are making assumptions based on the second hand information you are giving us and we could be wrong.

I would strongly encourage you to have a private behaviorist/trainer to help you. Hopefully a skilled trainer can safely set things up so they can observe Gunner and your son's body language to get an idea of what is exactly going on and help you go from there.

That said, some things you can do until you can get someone in the home would be to implement NILIF from all members of the family if you don't already. I would have your son handfeed Gunner if it's safe. Your son should be the source of all things good. If he walks by, toss a treat to Gunner. And of course, as you already know, don't lean over Gunner especially if he is in a vulnerable position.


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## Carrie K (Mar 5, 2011)

Thank you, sorry I think my post placement moved when I attempted to edit.

I've been thinking of contacting our trainer and asking for a few private sessions. I will call her today.

Can you tell me what NILIF means?


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Nothing in Life is Free

Basically, it's a fair way to establish your leadership of a dog.

I want to clarify that we all want to help. I just worry that we may give you suggestions that won't work and prolong getting a professional in who can see what we can't.

If you go into your USER CP and add your general location (like how mine says Mont Co, PA under my picture) then maybe we can make some recommendations of behaviorists for you.


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## Carrie K (Mar 5, 2011)

Thank you. I understand your concern. We will consult a professional. We will also try the NILIF method.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree, have your son be the source of everything Gunner receives for the next few weeks, and get with a professional.
Now that he is comfortable in your home, you see his true personality showing.

I had a foster that was a stray, so no background on him. He was reactive to my husband and 16 yr old son(after he settled in and felt "comfortable") 
I practiced NILIF with him and he was a great dog, other than the guy reactiveness. 
At adoption events, he tolerated males but truly preferred females.

He ended up biting my husband in the back unprovoked one night. I let him sleep beside the bed, not on it. My husband was getting in bed with his back turned to the dog and Hawkeye jumped over the bed and nailed him. I believe it was resource guarding, but unacceptable, regardless.

I had to return him to the rescue, and they adopted him out 2 weeks later without ever doing an eval on him. He went to a home with a 16 yr old boy, and his parents. Never heard how things ended up, I hope he didn't repeat his behavior.

Sometimes the rescues have so much baggage we can't understand, but we have to look forward and not back to get them over it all.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I agree you need a private trainer to come help with this. Perhaps Gunner was abused in his past life by a young man? Thanks for rescuing and best of luck with this issue. I am sure it can be resolved.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

I am not experienced by any means but if I were in your shoes I would have Gunner on a leash in the home at all times and supervise any interaction with your son until a professional trainer is present to guide you.


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## Carrie K (Mar 5, 2011)

Thank you, 

After yesterday's strange behavior from Gunner, we are using both the leash and supervision whenever our son is about. This morning, we've noticed Gunner reacting if he even hears our son moving about on another level of the house, so we are using the crate, as well.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Have you contacted the rescue/foster - I would do that to get their input. Good luck!


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## Carrie K (Mar 5, 2011)

I contacted the rescue group immediately, yesterday. She suggested strengthening the bond and increasing interaction between my son and Gunner. Our son is very uneasy this morning, but I hope to get the two of them out for a walk together (I will go, too) later today. I will also try having our son feed Gunner his meal, later today.


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## Sunstreaked (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm amazed at how dogs pick up on body language and the "mood" of the person. Is it possible for your son to take a few deep breaths before interacting with Gunner to release tension? I am by no means any kind of expert, but watching The Dog Whisperer it seems that Cesar comes in with the attitude of "you are going to listen and behave" and the dog picks up on that. 

In real life, I know that shaking off my tension does affect how my dog reacts. I know this won't solve the problem and I'm really glad you're getting a trainer to help.


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## Carrie K (Mar 5, 2011)

Thank you for all of your suggestions. They are helpful and comforting. I can see that our family is on the right track and we hope that everything works out for us and Gunner.

My teen-aged son is following the thread. He seems to appreciate the insights and I thought it might be helpful to be aware that he is reading your words of encouragement.

Thank you!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Have you contacted the rescue/foster - I would do that to get their input. Good luck!


I second the above as well as to find a reputable behaviorist (not just a trainer but a behaviorist). I would also teach your dog to accept a muzzle and have him wear it for your son's protection until you can work through this. 

Another option would be to have you or husband keep him leashed to you and slowly re-acclimate him to your son. So first treat him when he hears your son's voice, then treat him when your son is at a distance and closer and closer. Obviously you want to treat and praise while he is well under his threshold (not reacting in any way). Be careful not to reward any undesirable behaviors but instead immediately redirect with a command he knows (that's where NILIF comes in handy). 

Honestly though, I would want a behaviorist in the house observing his behavior and then coming up with a plan for your family. I would want that trained pair of eyes helping figure out exactly what is going on. In the interim I would keep him muzzled or leashed or crated for everyone's safety (including the dog's).


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Unfortunately, German Shepherds who are aggressive cannot be handled with straight motivational training. You do not have to be mean, but this dog needs to be muzzled and IMMEDIATELY given correction when he shows behavior toward your son which is unacceptable.

The dog is doing what aggressive dogs normally do. He barks, charges, and bites, to exact submission from an opponent (in this case, your son). When your son shows fear and retreats, and the dog is not punished, then the dog's behavior has been reinforced. Every time your son cowers, shows fear, and retreats, the behavior is ingrained even more.

First thing is to get the muzzle. Secondly, no treats, no niceness, especially from your son. Your son should not be giving treats to a dog that just bit him. The dog should be taken out of the house, muzzled, and then for long walks with your son. If he begins to show aggression, he should IMMEDIATELY and with NO NICENESS at all, be restrained and made to be still, UNTIL your son decides he can move. 

At numerous points in the walk, your son must stop and decide what the dog can and cannot do. Shall we go forward or wait at this crosswalk? Shall we walk on the grass or the sidewalk? Shall we stand or sit? The dog growls? Restrain him. The dark shows teeth? Restrain him. And restrain him with confidence and a commanding air. NO FEAR. No cowering. AND ABSOLUTELY no treats. An aggressive dog interprets treats in a different way than a normal dog. Treats do not come back until the dog has shown a drastic and acceptable change of behavior.

The muzzle is important, but it is even more important for your son to get out and about with Gunner while he is muzzled, and your son reclaims the alpha role, and is in charge again. Doing this out of the house is important because the dog has claimed the house, and will be even more aggressive in the house than say, outside on a walk.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

gsdraven said:


> *If you go into your USER CP and add your general location* (like how mine says Mont Co, PA under my picture) then maybe we can make some recommendations of behaviorists for you.


This is a good idea - people might be able to offer some suggestions for you if we know what area you live in.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

CaliBoy said:


> Unfortunately, German Shepherds who are aggressive cannot be handled with straight motivational training. You do not have to be mean, but this dog needs to be muzzled and IMMEDIATELY given correction when he shows behavior toward your son which is unacceptable.


Please do not give advice like this on a message board. You have no idea what is really going on with this dog. There is a HUGE difference between dominance aggression (which is VERY rare) and fear aggression (very common, especially in rescues). 

*Punishing a dog for showing fear (because this sounds like fear aggression to me) is the absolute worst possible thing you can do.* You will create a dog that is more fearful and more aggressive and will most likely have to be pts. 

I have rehabbed two fear aggressive dogs. One (Basu) would have mostly likely been pts had he gone to another home. I did not do it alone. I did it with the help of very qualified professionals. Had I tried to do it with the methods of training I had originally learned (which involved the types of corrections mentioned above) I would have failed Basu. 

Basu did bite and tried to bite on other occasions. However, he was a success story in that he gained enough confidence and I gained enough understanding of counter-conditioning and positive reinforcement and tactics for management to be able live a life that was not motivated by fear, on either of our parts.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

I wonder if your son resembles someone that created a traumatic or negative experience for Gunner. For now I definitely suggest contacting the rescue and I strongly suggest you forget about having your son have any interaction with the dog or doing NILIF until you can bring a qualified behaviorist into your home to show everyone how to interact and work with Gunner. Gunner is trying to tell your son that he wants him to stay away from him, your son is fearful and Gunner will call his bluff. Forcing any interaction between them could result in a bite or attack. Do not risk that.


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## Carrie K (Mar 5, 2011)

Thank you. Everyone's comments have been very helpful.

We have had other GSD's and we do believe this is fear aggression. We have previous experience working with GSD dogs with fear aggression. It is clear that for some reason, he has developed of fear of our son. His behavior also shows some need for dominance, most likely related to his fear and a previous experience before he came to our home. We do believe that he was treated harshly in a previous setting because he cowers if we raise our hand to toss a ball or point to his crate as if he thinks we are about to hit him.

Gunner is not a dominant dog, typically he is very submissive and low key. We don't believe in negative control or punitive correction. Our goal is for a very stable dog, not a fearful dog. We need to keep our son safe, too.

We live in a far suburb of Minneapolis MN. If anyone can recommend a behaviorist in the area, I will call them and ask for help.

I have contacted our rescue group for behaviorist, as well. I think due to the holiday weekend, we are on our own until Monday. Until then, we will be very careful.

Again, we appreciate your help and support.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

ETA: I had a rescue GSD that I ended up having to give back to the rescue(those that were on this forum a couple years ago will remember the story, Chief was actually adopted into a great home and is now a certified therapy dog for the son who is in a wheelchair). At one point I was living with a couple and their 23 year old son and 13 year old daughter. The couple were both on the BOD for our GSD rescue at the time. I lived with them for some months. One day my GSD decided he did not like their son. He would charge at him, bark, growl, stare him down. We tried everything...NILIF, a trainer observed him, the son tossed him treats, fed him, etc..but nothing worked. He just did not like the guy for some reason. Luckily I was moving out anyway so it wasn't a huge issue, I just had to keep my dog leashed or crated when the son was home. I hope you guys figure out a way to work through this and restore peace in your household


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Ruth:

I defer to your expertise. But my first GSD exhibited similar behavior toward my college age nephew when he stayed with me some years ago. I asked my vet for help and he referred a trainer to come to my house. These techniques were helpful and the nephew and dog were able to coexist fine as time went on. Just to clarify, though, the punishments employed by the trainer on my dog never involved striking or hitting, but different phrases and gestures. They were never abusive but he communicated his point with the dog. But I understand your point, that each dog has its own unique problems and a professional will take a different approach with each one. In my case, I was very happy to see the dog's behavior modified after my own motivational training was no longer effective.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I to, would sort of wonder if some teenage boy in his past, did something, that has stuck with this dog? 

Has he been around other teenagers/kids? how is he with them?? just curious.

and I am in agreement with finding a trainer/behaviorist that can some to your home and see first hand his behaviors..Good luck and thank you for rescuing


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Not trying to advise you on _your_ current situation, but if my dog ever bit one of my kids in the face, and continued to show aggression after the fact, it would be game over for him (the dog). I wouldn't tolerate it, not for one second. What if the dog attacks your son again, but this time he does some real damage to his face? You will have to look at his scarred face for the rest of your life knowing that you were aware there was a problem in the first place but you just couldn't make yourself get rid of the dog. My children's safety is paramount, the dog is just a dog that can easily be replaced. This answer won't sit well with the politically correct masses on this board, but I really don't care. Don't take chances with your son's safety. I hope everything works out for you.


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## susee (Apr 18, 2011)

When i got my current Dog 12 .5 yrs ago, she was aged approx 8 months old, and in her third home including breeder, and now nearly 13. So this was all about 12 1/2 years ago

The first day i got her 
she heard the voice of the elderly man, the visiting grandfather, 
over the fence, SHE DID NOT SEE HIM 
and had an immediate and very violent reaction that lasted about 5 years until we moved, no matter what steps i took. She was terrified of him 

Same with a visiting teenage girl, who visited often, same intense immediate and violent reaction when she heard her voice, and was always locked up when she visited, always.

I got a behavourist in straight away, who was hopeless, and recommended i walk her past the old man on the footpath if he was in the front garden.

Because in those days i had zero understanding of what i was dong i did what i was told to do, ( you can guess what happened) she heard his voice, snapped the lead, jumped the 2 foot fence and grabbed his calf, slightly broke the skin and ran

Went and then got a very good behavourist, and began lots of training of all descriptions, and she ended up visiting Nursing homes for years and years where my parents were, hated the Budgies chirp, but made a lot of people very very happy in there for years and years.

I can take her pretty well anywhere and be as confident as you should ever be of a Dog that she will be beautifully behaved, never a problem anywhere, or even a hint of a problem, but at home once that gate is closed behind her she is quite territorial

These 2 voices represented something very serious, i did a lot research back over her owners, matched up other behavours
fear of shovels, only ever lying across doorways, not in a room totally if she could avoid it, and the obvious conclusion, she had been really abused, and these 2 voices i think will haunt her forever, havent seen them in years and years now but if she heard their voices i wonder.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

RazinKain said:


> Not trying to advise you on _your_ current situation, but if my dog ever bit one of my kids in the face, and continued to show aggression after the fact, it would be game over for him (the dog). I wouldn't tolerate it, not for one second. What if the dog attacks your son again, but this time he does some real damage to his face? You will have to look at his scarred face for the rest of your life knowing that you were aware there was a problem in the first place but you just couldn't make yourself get rid of the dog. My children's safety is paramount, the dog is just a dog that can easily be replaced. This answer won't sit well with the politically correct masses on this board, but I really don't care. Don't take chances with your son's safety. I hope everything works out for you.


Thank you.

Know that I adore dogs, I love mine more than I do most family members ( ) BUT if one that I feed bit my child in the face and acts aggressively towards him for no apparent reason, and not just one occasion, that would be a dead dog - I won't send that dog to a new home so it can do it to someone else's child. That sounds very harsh for a dog lover, but my kid would come before anything and anyone, much less a dog. Yes, you could make him better, you could teach him your son is a good thing, but is it worth it, knowing the dog showed his is willing to bite him already and something could trigger hi mto in the future? 

And in this situation.. I would handle it by telling the rescue to take him back and place him with no kids, too dangerous... IMO that dog was not ready to be adopted at all if he is still so fearful of some people he will bite them in the face and become agitated by just hearing this person move about the house. 

But then I'd be scared that the rescue will just think it was your fault and place him with kids anyway.. I've seen them do it. 

I realize your son is older so this isn't as intense a situation as it would be a young child... but what if you have an accident and you son needs an ER visit to put his face back together? Do you think anyone who's dog mauls their kid expects it to happen? 

If your dog was aggressive to strangers, I'd say it's not that big of a deal.. if you are will to work with a HA dog, crate him when guests are over.. But this is your child who lives in the home.. 


There are so many dogs that would be right for you in shelters right now, maybe this one isn't the dog for you? It happens. He might be totally happy in an adult home with confident owners (not saying you aren't) who exercise great caution around strangers and kids. 


Whatever you do, I wish you the best of luck.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

When he was examined by your vet, did it include any blood work? 
I'm only asking this because there may be some type of medical condition that is causing the aggression. Although it seems unlikely becuase it is only directed toward your son, it is possible that a thyroid (or other medical) problem may be at play here.

Just worth having checked out as well.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Got to agree, if my dog bit my child unless there was a VERY clear and good explanation the dog is gone. idon't agree that it is "just a dog" but my child must come first! Might be different if he bit me, of course.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

It doesn't sound to me like he is challenging for position. Really, it usually is not such a thing. 

He is new to your home and his background is not known. I had a rescue who was abused by children. His reaction to kids was not good. 

I hope that you can find help. If your son now has worry or trepidation the dog will sense this and not be at ease either.

Does the dog have free run of the house? At one month into adoption,none of my rescues would have earned this. I keep them pretty managed as we work on establishing relationship and figuring out what makes everyone tick. This means crated, leashed or penned. It is basically a benevolent dictatorship with a NILIF flavor.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm going to echo the opinion that this dog would have been back at the rescue the day it happened.

There may be a million reasons in the world why the dog behaved as it did, whether it was fear or true aggression wouldn't matter to me. A dog that would bite my child unprovoked would be in a home w/out children or euthanized if a suitable one couldn't be found. I would not make my child pay, for the rest of his life, for the problems a dog had.


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## Bismarck's_Dad (Apr 2, 2011)

Samba said:


> It doesn't sound to me like he is challenging for position. Really, it usually is not such a thing.
> 
> He is new to your home and his background is not known. I had a rescue who was abused by children. His reaction to kids was not good.
> 
> ...


i agree totally.
we recommend that people treat the dog they adopt like "a neighbors dog, that they don't like, but are doing it for their good neighbor". crate the dog, or if it's not crated, it's by your side on a leash.

dogs walk. 
they don't play piano, they don't play poker or lawn bowling.... they walk.

have your son walk with you, and the dog. go for a pack walk daily. i realize for your son, it's going to be very difficult, being in HS with everything going on, i know i was hardly ever at home during that time. 
(also, please note that when i say go for a walk, the dog can't be out in front, leading the way on a 20 foot flexi lead. the dog has to be right next to you in the correct position, for his safety, as well as your sons. this way, you won't have to worry about "if he goes and tries to attack again", he won't if he's at your side with a slack leash, and your son will feel more relaxed and calm. the dog picks up on your sons nervousness and tension. pack walks are fun for all in the pack, make sure your pack walk is also, as well as safe for all.)

you don't know this dogs past, and there's a good chance are the rescue doesn't either.
but i agree, without seeing everything, dogs posture etc... i'd recommend a trainer.


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## jova1251 (Apr 4, 2010)

*agressive towards son*

This is a no-brainer for me. If my GSD was behaving that way towards ANYONE in my house, the dog would be gone. Sometimes they just can't be rehabilitated or made completely safe. It's foolish to believe that without 24 hour supervision the dog will ever be safe around not only your son, but also other visitors to your home. Why would anyone would want to live this way? German Shepherds just aren't good dogs for everyone.


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