# spiked collar? good or makes things worse?



## djvectrex (Oct 4, 2008)

following up on my post last nite, i walk my boy matrix with a spiked collar on? good or makes things worse? when he sees another dog, he goes nuts and he doesnt get intimidated about the spiked collar he just tries to lunge and go bananas lol! should i use something else?


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

A spiked collar is for looks, it has no effect on the dog. Unless you're talking about a PRONG collar???

http://www.pitbull-store.com/images/large/leather-spiked-dog-collar-pitt-bull-reddy-dog-dog_LRG.jpg

Example of a spiked collar ^

Example of a prong collar v

http://www.carealotpets.com/images/items/156Lg.jpg

How old is your dog? If you're using a prong collar is it fitted properly?

leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

I haven't read your other post so I don't know about the situation but no matter what, a collar wont fix your dogs problems. Only training will.


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

*If it is a prong collar just make sure you are giving a correction with it (quick snap to the side and tell the dog "leave it" or whatever you want to say). Just having it on alone won't do anything. *


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

*Go to a pet store with your dog and find one of the clickers.. See if your dog responds well to it.. That is something else you could try. Just redirecting the attention... Didn't really work for me, but it works for some.

And try and not pull backwards on the leash.. That will motivate the dog to pull and lunge and intensify the situation. *


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

If you are referring to a prong collar, then it's very important that the collar is fitted correctly and that you are using it correctly, like Chance's Mom said. 

I've found that many store employees who recommend (and fit) those collars for customers really don't know how to fit them correctly, and many of the dogs I see with prong collars have the collars hanging loosely around the bottom of the neck where they are completely useless. 

The link Chance's Mom gave shows you how to put on and fit a prong collar correctly. A lot of people don't have them all the way up behind the ears, but you do want it to sit around the upper part of the dog's neck, not at the bottom.

When you are using a prong collar, it's important that you're not simply letting the dog self-correct (hit the end of the leash to get a correction) but that you are using the collar as a training aid rather than a training substitute.

That said, your problem seems to happen when you come toward another dog. In that case, the prong collar may not be a good solution because it can actually ramp your dog up and make the behavior worse, rather than better. What you want to do is a way of redirecting the dog and/or catching the dog before he reacts to the other dog on walks.

Is your dog at all motivated by food (treats) or toys? If so, you can use that motivation to redirect his attention by having him do a command when you spot another dog (but before your dog spots the other dog). Have your dog do a command such as "focus" (look at you) or "sit" so you have his attention and he is focusing on you and waiting for a reward, rather than focusing on the other dog. You can also try walking in a different direction or doing a turn.



> Quote:Go to a pet store with your dog and find one of the clickers.. See if your dog responds well to it.. That is something else you could try. Just redirecting the attention...


The clicker is a great training tool when it is used correctly. If you expect the dog to respond to the sound first time he hears it, or using the clicker to redirect the dog's attention, you are not using it correctly. 

A clicker is only a marker that marks when the correct behavior occurs and lets the dog know that yes, this is what I want you to do, and a treat is going to follow. Of course, the dog doesn't know that click equals treat until you have "charged" the clicker, meaning you've conditioned the dog to understand that a click will be followed by a treat.


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

*Well then the trainer I paid didn't know what they were doing haha.. It was a waste of my money anyways. Nothing I couldn't have found on youtube. She taught me to say "look" and at that point the dog would see the other dog and that was when I would click (the reward) I suppose. But the dog would get a treat after the click.. So who knows.. Maybe thats why it didn't work for me! *


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

djvectrex, where are you?

Are you talking about a 'prong' collar? The reason they don't work is because when we just buy them and put them on, we get the wrong size and put them on improperly, use them wrong and can make things worse.

But if we go to dog classes with a good trainer and learn to TEACH our dogs.............then they become the 'amazing rocket scientist' of a dog that they always had in them, but WE don't know how to bring it out until WE are taught properly.

So just do the research to find a good dog trainer you'll be shocked how much better things go. And since I'm raising my 4th dog and still going to dog classes I DO know what I'm talking about!!


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Quote:She taught me to say "look" and at that point the dog would see the other dog and that was when I would click (the reward) I suppose. But the dog would get a treat after the click.. So who knows.. Maybe thats why it didn't work for me!


Maybe it was a misunderstanding between you and the trainer or she was not able to communicate with you properly what it is you were supposed to be doing.

The command "look" should get your dog to look at YOU, not the other dog. When the dog focuses ("look") on you, you click to mark the behavior ("yes, I want eye contact from you, good job") and then follow that with the treat (reward).

Of course, that only works if the clicker is "charged" to begin with. Did she have you ever just click-treat-click-treat for awhile so the dog learns to associate the click with the treat? If not, maybe she needs to go back to clicker basics before training people using the clicker.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

It sounds like the Look At That! game by Control Unleashed's Leslie McDevitt, which would be something entirely different than teaching your dog to focus on you. It's actually a great technique for reactive dogs. Rather than telling the dog they are not allowed to look at whatever is worrying and stressing them out, you give them permission by teaching them to look on cue. in this game, you do click when they look at the other dog, and then if you've taught your dog properly that the click means that a reward will follow, the dog looks back at you for the treat. It's also a form of counter-conditioning because you're pairing the presence of a trigger with food.

It's really, really hard to keep a reactive dog's focus on you 100% when they're in the presence of a trigger and it can actually make them MORE stressed out if you don't allow them to check something out and see that it's not a threat. But you also don't want to allow them to stare fixedly at things that will set them off - LAT is a great tool for interrupting and diverting their attention away from the trigger. It's best to only play this game in the presence of a trigger after the dog "gets" it by using a benign object at first, and then working up to something a little more exciting (I play Look At The Cat! around the house) before attempting it out in the real world around serious triggers. By then, the game will be familiar to the dog and give him something to do other than freak out.


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

* Thats the one!! ^^^^ *


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

this picture of a dog taking a jump and NOT looking ahead but looking sideways for direction from human companion is great.NOT wanting to hijack thread but maybe 'connecting 'rather than equipment is the way to go,


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: ttalldogthis picture of a dog taking a jump and NOT looking ahead but looking sideways for direction from human companion is great......NOT wanting to hijack thread but maybe 'connecting 'rather than equipment is the way to go,












I did it to show that dog classes, that teach the PROPER way to use equipment like the prong collar (or not) and the clicker, can lead to ONLY GOOD THINGS in later life for our dogs. The intention in the photo was to show a dog that has gone to dog classes, had a prong collar on her (at agility trials I have NO collar on my dog at all), is clicker trained, and is STILL going to weekly agility classes can go far! I learn, my dog learns and everything works out well.

Agility is off leash with frequently only a 2' high plastic fencing dividing the rings and from other dogs. Happy, well adjusted and trained dogs are a must. And great dogs classes and trainers are a vital part of all that.

So ttalldog is right, for the handler, learning to connect and work with our dogs should be all our goals. And I know for me, I only get better at this working with people that already have the skill and the TEACHING skills to give them to me! The fact we then learn what tools work best (prong collar? clicker? buckle collar?) and HOW to use those tools properly is a plus!


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## djvectrex (Oct 4, 2008)

Historian said:


> If you are referring to a prong collar, then it's very important that the collar is fitted correctly and that you are using it correctly, like Chance's Mom said.
> 
> 
> thanks for all the input everyone! i meant prong collar and i was told how to put it on correctly, fitting tight just behind the ears but if he lunges then it slides back down the neck and he's like a bull lol and it does not affect him! should i get him to sit and if he tries to lunge and start barking to pull up on the leash instead of back and then let go when he sits back?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Timing is EVERYTHING with all training, once your dog has freaked and lunged you are too late for the 'training' in the situation. Hopefully the prong just keeps the dog from running off.

If the collar can slip down your dog's neck it is NOT fitted properly. It's too loose.

What size prongs are you using? I know my current instructor recommends using a collar with the smaller prongs so you can fit it more precisely. The larger the prongs, the more radical the size change by just adding or removing a link. The more links that ARE present mean the more control we have.

This shows 2 size prong collars and it's the smaller one I now use:










Both collars on Bretta Lee:









You need to have your dogs attention and focus and a loose leash BEFORE he goes off. And that's when you do the 'attention' work and even just turn to go in the opposite direction (good dog good dog with learning and praise for the dog) rather than continue towards whatever makes him lunge (bad dog bad dog and a complete lack of learning and control). 

People have recommended some great books and DVD's (Calming Signals if wonderful).

AFTER months of dog classes and tons of car rides and active socialization in 'the world' this is my nephew holding 2 dogs with prong collars on:


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Everything I've read says not to use a prong collar to correct an agressive dog. That the dog associates the sensations with the other dog. I know it's never worked for me. 

I do know a lot of people who have been successful with the Control Unleashed method at my dog club.


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