# Thoughts on this breeder?



## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

Yep, I'm back with yet another breeder that I would like opinions on. This breeder was recommended by Runderberg (because Runderberg will not be breeding for a while). They are in Houston, TX.

http://www.oelmansdorf.com/index.asp

What do you guys think? You can find their health guarantee if you click on "available puppies" under "for sale."


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Haven't heard of them, but dogs are titled, koerd, hips rated, and it appears they are working/training their dogs (photo gallery had some pics of one of the dogs). I don't see any big red flags.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I would make DARN sure you trust this breeder (or any breeder for that matter.) to choose the correct puppy for your situation. With bloodlines like this you could EASILY end up with "too much dog".


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## Brandon Coker (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm glad you posted this....looking into them as well.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDI would make DARN sure you trust this breeder (or any breeder for that matter.) to choose the correct puppy for your situation. With bloodlines like this you could EASILY end up with "too much dog".


My thoughts exactly!

If you're going with a working line dog, get to know the breeder before you commit.

There are stable temperaments in all lines.

Do you mind sharing your experience with GSDs, the time you feel you have to train, the type of family setting the dog will be with and your eventual goals for the dog?

There are no wrong answers and it's ok if it's your first dog. 

Just might help some of the folks here have a better idea of the fit with the breeders you're interested in.


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## Brandon Coker (Jan 9, 2009)

Just talked to the guy. 

Seemed nice enough but he did say you have to pay extra for hip guarantee and you can pay extra for full registration. Or that’s how it sounded to me anyway. 

He also did say he didn't have anything right now and he was waiting due to skipping a cycle so his females could rest....which is good.

EDIT: the male in the photo section looks huge.


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDI would make DARN sure you trust this breeder (or any breeder for that matter.) to choose the correct puppy for your situation. With bloodlines like this you could EASILY end up with "too much dog".


Thanks. I'll make sure I talk to him and find out if he thinks he would have a pup that would fit our situation.



> Originally Posted By: zypMy thoughts exactly!
> 
> If you're going with a working line dog, get to know the breeder before you commit.
> 
> ...


To answer these questions: My husband and I will be first time dog owners (other than childhood dogs...which really doesn't count). 

As far as the time we will have - evenings and weekends. We will both be working full time. 

Family setting - right now it is just me and my husband. We will probably try for our first child in the next year. The dog will be a member of our family, living inside with us, and participating in any outdoor activities with us. Our immediate family members all live within driving distance, so we should be able to travel with the dog. 

Future goals - nothing planned other than being a family companion. I am interested in protection training, BUT I cannot say we plan to do this with our first dog because I simply do not know if time will permit. So when looking for a dog, I am not putting that atop my list. Our goals are to raise a loving family companion dog, train him/her to be obedient, and have him/her be a part of our family's everyday life. We want our children to grow up around a dog(s). 

Hope that gives you a little clearer picture.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Brandon C
> Seemed nice enough but he did say you have to pay extra for hip guarantee and you can pay extra for full registration. Or that’s how it sounded to me anyway.


Ok to me that's


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

for a first time gsd/dog owner... and both working fulltime jobs... from a novice point of view - this does seem like "alot of dog" for you. as mentioned before - every line can produce a mild temperament but the chances are slimmer when you get into czech/ddr bloodlines - its just not the reason those dogs are bred.

someone correct me if i'm wrong - but all working lines are not created equal. there are east german, west german, czech/ddr, as well as breeders who mix lines (i imagine thats more common here in the states).

i'm not sure if you've already posted - but maybe start a thread explaining your situation and goals then ask for breeder recommendations based on that rather than pure geography.


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## Brandon Coker (Jan 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodderfor a first time gsd/dog owner... and both working fulltime jobs... from a novice point of view - this does seem like "alot of dog" for you. as mentioned before - every line can produce a mild temperament but the chances are slimmer when you get into czech/ddr bloodlines - its just not the reason those dogs are bred.


What is the reason? The Czech line not known for temperment? 

NM I got my answer.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

*cough* http://www.gsdrescuectx.com/default/dogs/Annika.html


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

If I remember correctly, DDR = East German, East German = DDR. I think they are one in the same. Is that correct?

The other working lines are West German, Czech, Dutch, and Belgian. At least that's what I read in an article on a breeder's site.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

yes


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## Brandon Coker (Jan 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder *cough* http://www.gsdrescuectx.com/default/dogs/Annika.html


Oh my!! You can even play golf with this one!


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## Brandon Coker (Jan 9, 2009)

_*"EAST GERMAN SHEPHERD CENTRAL is devoted to the German Shepherd Dog of the former East Germany, the Deutsche Demokratische Republik or "DDR" (1949-1990). The DDR was a political, social, economic, and geographic entity that was physically solidified with the tragically oppressive construction of the Berlin Wall in 1961, and which began its political and physical dissolution with the history-making and liberating fall of that barrier on November 9, 1989. 

Just as the geo-political entity formerly known as the "DDR" no longer exists today, the "DDR German Shepherd Dog" is a historical relic of a bygone time and place, and it no longer exists today. Rather, the generations of true "DDR" bloodlines are limited to a span of roughly four decades of breeding and development in the former East Germany. These bloodlines may be found in the third, fourth, and further generations back in the pedigrees of working, sporting, and companion dogs found around the world today. These modern representatives of the German Shepherd Dog breed, with a genetic heritage in the former DDR bloodlines, have their true provenance determined by the place of their actual birth."*_


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder *cough* http://www.gsdrescuectx.com/default/dogs/Annika.html


I am *slightly* considering a rescue. However, this rescue does not adopt to San Antonio...at least that's what their site says.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I see no reason that you should not be able to get an excellent dog from this kennel, if you discuss your intents and goals with them....these dogs are mostly DDR dogs who tend to not have over the top drives at all....they tend to make exceptional family dogs and they tend to have temperament that reflects what the standard says a German Shepherd should be....so if you have done your homework on what a Germa Shepherd "should" be and that fits into your wants, then you should probably get a real nice dog.JMO


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_Wyes


but all east german dogs arent necessarily from the original DDR lines?

i read a debate once about whether or not the original DDR lines still exist.


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

If I knew how to do the thumbs down I would add about 50


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

There are actually breeders trying to keep these bloodlines going. Grafental is still using those old bloodlines trying to preserve them. But they no longer have a DDR registration as it doesn't exist since the wall. They have SV numbers now.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodderfor a first time gsd/dog owner... and both working fulltime jobs... from a novice point of view - this does seem like "alot of dog" for you. as mentioned before - every line can produce a mild temperament but the chances are slimmer when you get into czech/ddr bloodlines - its just not the reason those dogs are bred.


 You cannot imagine how many times I wished that Anton (DDR) were my first dog. He's such a breeze to raise and I love EVERYTHING in his temperament. He's not a Golden retriever type, though, very aloof. I think he would be an excellent dog for the OP (I mean, a mellow pup from DDR lines because Anton stays with me







)


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_WThere are actually breeders trying to keep these bloodlines going. Grafental is still using those old bloodlines trying to preserve them. But they no longer have a DDR registration as it doesn't exist since the wall. They have SV numbers now.


seems they should let the term die down too then. could be me, but it seems confusing. so - within the east german / ddr / czech realm - where do "border patrol dogs" fit in?


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

What should DDRs be called then? Confusing or not, they are very different - as different as highline and ambred.

Yes, I'm biased, my pup is a DDR, his great grand sire is v-Sven vom Grafental.


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: kleinenHainIf I knew how to do the thumbs down I would add about 50


Thanks for your opinion, but would you mind explaining why you would give 50 thumbs down? It doesn't really help me to know just that you would give a thumbs down.


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: HBH
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: kleinenHainIf I knew how to do the thumbs down I would add about 50
> ...


DISREGARD. User PMed me.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

just sitting back, reading and learning


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaWhat should DDRs be called then? Confusing or not, they are very different - as different as highline and ambred.





> Originally Posted By: HBHIf I remember correctly, DDR = East German, East German = DDR. I think they are one in the same. Is that correct?





> Originally Posted By: Angela_Wyes


this is precisely what i'm trying to clarify.
if "east german" truly is the same as "DDR" then i'd presume they'd be called "east german". 

however,



> Originally Posted By: Angela_WThere are actually breeders trying to keep these bloodlines going. Grafental is still using those old bloodlines trying to preserve them. But they no longer have a DDR registration as it doesn't exist since the wall. They have SV numbers now.


this would lead me to believe that there IS a difference between todays east german working line dog as oppose to east german working lines that trickled down from DDR lines (which sound to be less common).

which brings be back to my question of:



> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Angela_Wyes
> ...


are there east german lines derived from DDR _and_ east german lines that are _not_ derived from DDR?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I always thought they were one in the same. I mean, DDR (Deutsche Demokratische Republik) is just the German phrase for what we refer/referred to as east Germany. I'm assuming there are some lines/kennels of dogs that are older than others but I guess I always understood the _type_ to be the same. DDR/east German that is.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The whole "DDR" thing reminds me of Arabian horses! They are all Arabians - but you have "Polish" horses, "Spanish", "Blue List" "Egyptian" and "Russian" as the main subtypes...


The abbrevation for East Germany IS "DDR" - the DDR is long gone, but some people have bred to keep teh "type" alive, generations after the Wall came down. The Czechs used DDR dogs in their programs, and some WGR dogs made their way over and DDR dogs made their way to other countries. Yes, there is still a group of people who breed within the lines left from the DDR, and I for one, don't get all perturbed by their id-ing their dogs as DDR dogs, any more than Ansata or Imperial Arabians calling their horses "egyptian" or when the LaCroix's bred "Polish" Arabians...it is a label that identifies a distinct type/look/group of lines.

Lee


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

thank you Lee - your post made the most sense to me. i can also respect them labeling their dogs as DDR now that i know there is a distinction between look/type/appearance. temperament wise - would you label them as more or less intense then current day east german working lines? i always assumed they were more intense and drivey which is why i wouldnt recommend this breeders dogs to the OP.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I think it's better to have an intense and drivey pup that takes everything in a stride and forgives handler's mistakes as a first dog than a quiet timid puppy that would require actually much stronger and experienced handler.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07I think it's better to have an intense and drivey pup that takes everything in a stride and forgives handler's mistakes as a first dog than a quiet timid puppy that would require actually much stronger and experienced handler.


but there is a huge middle ground / grey area in between those two extremes. there are pups destined for Sch and there are incredibly shy timid nervous pups that require lots of patience and nurturing. i wouldnt recommend either for a first time dog owner. but i also don't know any breeders that are purposely breeding to achieve timid dogs.

so my point being a high drive dog - doesnt sound like an evening and weekend family companion dog. i suppose the good news is that per this breeders mission statement - they arent aiming for high drive dogs. 

this is a quote from the OP taken from another post:



> Originally Posted By: HBH
> While we will NOT be the dog owners whose dog is banished to the backyard and only gets taken for walks and played with when the owner has a spare 30 minutes (I could never do that to a dog!), we also won't have 3 or 4 hours everyday to dedicate to playing with and exercising the dog. Our future GSD will be a member of our family. He/she will live inside with us, and we will feel obligated to walk him/her everyday and play with him/her everyday. But since we will both be working full-time I know we won't be able to spend hours everyday "working" the dog.
> 
> My fear is a working line dog may require what we can't give it.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Actually, the DDR dogs were supposed to be more like what people call the "Golden Middle" - conformation and drives were equally important and balance in quality of these sought for. The high prey of the WGR was not developed as schutzhund was not as much a competitive sport when there was a DDR, nor were the extremes/cookie cutter of the WGR Showlines happening in the DDR.

IMO, there is much less prey, more natural aggression and a lot more independence in the true DDR type. They are not as sucessful as sport dogs/point dogs as they are not as easy to train to todays sport style. That being said, a lower prey dog is probably easier to live with for many people, and the dark sable substantial looks appeal to many companion home buyers.

Lee


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Hi, my name is Otto, I'm a 9 month old east german shepherd puppy. I love my ball, will chase it for an hour if someone wants to throw it for me. If you don't want to for more than 10 minutes, I'm good with that too as long as we get to play for a little while. I'll follow you around with my ball and stick it under your chair then wait for you to throw it. 

I'm a really gifted athlete too, I can jump a 2 foot fence like it isn't there and I've never cracked my head on the support beams in the basement no matter how many times my ball goes near it. 

I will admit I like to chase leaves and birds. If you give me the opportunity, I go crazy for a flashlight. I also have a problem with shoes. Mom has to keep those hidden from me or I can't help myself, I eat them.

Mom says I'm pretty adaptable and I was really easy to train. Nothing scares me. When I was 8 weeks old, they tore up the street in front of our house with big heavy machines. They were cool.

I love to go out and meet new people. Sometimes people look at me like I'm scary but I'm just a big happy guy. 

Mom says the greatest thing about me is I can be outside running around crazy with my big sister and my soccer ball then I come inside, get some water and lay down to relax. 

She says I'm good in the house, so good I don't need my crate anymore. I really like being out of my crate! I kept getting my feet stuck in the bars and that hurt. Mom says it's because my feet are too big. At night I have a big soft wool rug to stretch out on. In the morning when Mom is at work, I have this crib mattress to lay on.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

OK I am relatively new to working lines and SchH but so far in my experience, if I had to generalize, it seems to be that the DDR dogs tend to be a tad more skittish and reserved when they are younger (not fearful, no, but they just seem more aloof and less motivated to be working with the handler) and seem to use more defense drive than prey drive. I guess to me they seem slower to mature than the west German working lines who always seem so hyper in their prey drive and willingness to work work work. I could be way off...


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

no you're pretty much on. Grace will be 2 this coming weekend. She is no where mature yet to work. My old male Vishnu was 4 before he was mature enough and even then he was more defense and more "protective" than prey. He had ok prey just not with anyone but me. He was 1/2 ddr and 1/2 showline.


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LiesjeOK I am relatively new to working lines and SchH but so far in my experience, if I had to generalize, it seems to be that the DDR dogs tend to be a tad more skittish and reserved when they are younger (not fearful, no, but they just seem more aloof and less motivated to be working with the handler) and seem to use more defense drive than prey drive. I guess to me they seem slower to mature than the west German working lines who always seem so hyper in their prey drive and willingness to work work work. I could be way off...


So would this mean you recommend this line to a first time owner who isn't worried about maturity to work?


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaHi, my name is Otto, I'm a 9 month old east german shepherd puppy. I love my ball, will chase it for an hour if someone wants to throw it for me. If you don't want to for more than 10 minutes, I'm good with that too as long as we get to play for a little while. I'll follow you around with my ball and stick it under your chair then wait for you to throw it.
> 
> I'm a really gifted athlete too, I can jump a 2 foot fence like it isn't there and I've never cracked my head on the support beams in the basement no matter how many times my ball goes near it.
> 
> ...


This description pretty closely fits the kind of dog I would like. Can I just have him and stop all this breeder searching nonsense?!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't know....hard to explain, but *personally* I will not be getting a pure DDR dog any time soon and I DO train and title my dogs in a variety of things (including starting SchH with my youngest). I find the high prey drive very helpful both for early training but also being able to reward and motivate the dog using toys and games. I also like dogs that are very attached, very focused on me and happy doing obedience. FWIW my dogs are a working line GSD (east/west cross but I *think* she is mostly west German and Kirschental), a mutt, and a west German show line GSD. If I got a working line, I'd probably prefer west German (or Belgian and/or Dutch in there). I love the looks of the DDR but they just don't seem like the right type for me.

For what YOU want, I don't think lines or type really matter as much as finding a GOOD breeder that understands what you want and will match you with the right dog.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: HBHThis description pretty closely fits the kind of dog I would like. Can I just have him and stop all this breeder searching nonsense?!


LOL, well he kinda sounded like what you're looking for. 

*edit* and no he's not going anywhere, I waited almost 3 years for that boy!


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

Well, hopefully I'll end up as lucky as you!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: LiesjeFor what YOU want, I don't think lines or type really matter as much as finding a GOOD breeder that understands what you want and will match you with the right dog.


^^I strongly agree with this.^^


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

Whew, well perhaps I can quit stressing so much over finding the *perfect* line for us!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Thank You Lee ! that is how I perceive the DDR dog also, and this is from owning this type as well as seeing some good ones. They make excellent family dogs....you have to know dogs from experience before you can give advice on what something is when it comes to temperament....books and internet don't do it...JMO!


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

Soooo....I'm getting the feeling that the "general" consensus is that the East German/DDR lines would not be a poor choice for a first time owner. Of course, some disagree with this, but I think I see more who agree.

Again, I'm going to try not to get TOO caught up in the line issue, but I certainly wouldn't pick the DDR line if almost everyone here felt that a first time owner should NOT go that route.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Liesjeso far in my experience, if I had to generalize, it seems to be that the DDR dogs tend to be a tad more skittish and reserved when they are younger (not fearful, no, but they just seem more aloof and less motivated to be working with the handler) and seem to use more defense drive than prey drive.


 For me aloof and skittish and reserved are different things. Anton loved people when he was a very young pup, but now at 1 year old he becomes very aloof which means that he doesn't care if people are around or not, and he's not afraid or he avoids attention. He will take treats from strangers sometimes just to spit it out right in front of their eyes (I don't know where he picked that habit, it's very upsetting for those nice people to see), and he doesn't want to do anything for a random person (he won't even respond to 'sit' command for a treat in Petsmart, for example, but will sit for me right away).

He's very motivated to work with his handler, actually, and I would say he's a little handler soft, but a stranger would have to force him to perform with heavy corrections even at this age. His prey drive is medium and I don't know about his defense drive because he's still a baby.
Here's my DDR pup right after we finished his first track in the desert land. Would you call him not motivated to work?

















I do spend 3 - 4 hours a day training, hiking, walking, playing with my dogs, though. I work from home so I have this opportunity. Just to make everything clear.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: HBHSoooo....I'm getting the feeling that the "general" consensus is that the East German/DDR lines would not be a poor choice for a first time owner. Of course, some disagree with this, but I think I see more who agree.


It just depends on the individual.

My 10 month old is 3/4 DDR and 1/4 Czech. She is also by the same sire as Anton (the dog in the post above.)

She would be a TERRIBLE dog for a first timer, and would likely make such a person HATE GSDs in general! Her prey drive to CRAZY (I wish I could get rid of most of it!), and she has ZERO handler "softness". She could also be the type that could be handler aggressive with the wrong handler.

As a young puppy she would have gone absolutely NUTS to be alone for 8+ hours a day, with only a little activity in the evening.

I think you could find the "right" dog for you in most lines, it just takes finding the right breeder. One that is honest enough to tell you that there isn't a puppy of the temperment you need in a certain litter (If that is the case), rather than just giving you a pup that isn't suitable, just to get your money.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

When you mix "type" - or outcross - you have more traits out in the gene pool and which ones "stick" in the individual pup may vary. If you want a DDR dog for a companion, I'd say stick with straight DDR or DDR x WGR lines.

I had a DDR Czech female - also had some Belgian - but that was DDR based Belgian! 

Very serious female - not high ball drive - but very very high "real" prey - went though car tires for me like crazy wanting it to "go" before she got in! Lots of defense drive, solid nerves, social and environmental. Wonderful tracking drive - just not biddable! OB was not particularly pretty or snappy....she was an 80-85 OB dog consistantly - not fast on dumbbells, but did not mouth. 

I have a WGR cross female from the DDR female....she is a super companion, very good drives but wonderful in the house. Protective, smart, biddable. Probably my favorite dog for looks that I have had too.

Lee


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodderthis is precisely what i'm trying to clarify.
> if "east german" truly is the same as "DDR" then i'd presume they'd be called "east german".


There is NO difference. East German = DDR. Some people just prefer one term over the other.



> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> this would lead me to believe that there IS a difference between todays east german working line dog as oppose to east german working lines that trickled down from DDR lines (which sound to be less common).



East Germany has been gone for 20 years. So there is no modern East German working line. All of the dogs called East German/DDR today are the ones who trickled down from dogs bred in East Germany, and who trace directly back to those dogs. There are many kennels who still breed this type, without mixing in dogs from other bloodlines. 

Any differences between the DDR dogs of 20-50 years ago and the DDR dogs of today is due to the preferences of the breeders selecting for different traits now than they did in the past. The bloodlines are the same. A modern DDR breeder is breeding dogs who trace back directly to the dogs of the DDR, with no other lines mixed in.





> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> 
> which brings be back to my question of:
> 
> but all east german dogs arent necessarily from the original DDR lines?


Yes, they are. That is the definitition of a DDR dog.





> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> are there east german lines derived from DDR _and_ east german lines that are _not_ derived from DDR?


No.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: WolfstraumActually, the DDR dogs were supposed to be more like what people call the "Golden Middle" - conformation and drives were equally important and balance in quality of these sought for. The high prey of the WGR was not developed as schutzhund was not as much a competitive sport when there was a DDR, nor were the extremes/cookie cutter of the WGR Showlines happening in the DDR.
> 
> IMO, there is much less prey, more natural aggression and a lot more independence in the true DDR type. They are not as sucessful as sport dogs/point dogs as they are not as easy to train to todays sport style. That being said, a lower prey dog is probably easier to live with for many people, and the dark sable substantial looks appeal to many companion home buyers.
> 
> Lee



This has been my experience with the DDR lines as well. While I'm sure there are some that are high drive and not for the average companion GSD owner, those are relatively rare. And I do wonder if some of the people who say their DDR dogs are super high drive/high energy don't have a different standard of comparison than I do (as in, compared to most pet/show dogs as opposed to my perspective of compared to western Euro working lines.) Every case I've seen of hyperactive behavior in DDR dogs has been just that... hyperactivity due to nerve weakness, not due to high drive.

I often recommend people who contact us looking for "just a pet" who like the look of the working lines but need something more similar to show line temperament in terms of being lower drive and more laid back, to DDR breeders. Especially if they want something with higher suspicion to serve as a deterrent/alarm dog.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

I have to agree, Vishnu was more laid back, was very happy to just observe. He would be protective if it called for it, he had average prey, nothing high enough to do schutzhund with. Grace being more DDR blood than V was, has even less prey drive, def. not hyperactive, but def. more suspicious.


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks Chris for elaborating on some of the previous posts. It's all a lot clearer to me. From what you said sounds like my chances of finding a dog to fit our situation are good if I go with a DDR line. I'll definitely keep this in mind!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_W Grace being more DDR blood than V was, has even less prey drive, def. not hyperactive, but def. more suspicious.


"suspicious" THAT was the word I was trying to think of! That's how many of the DDR dogs seem, to me at least.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: HBHThanks Chris for elaborating on some of the previous posts. It's all a lot clearer to me. From what you said sounds like my chances of finding a dog to fit our situation are good if I go with a DDR line. I'll definitely keep this in mind!


I still think in your case, lines might be an afterthought. I would worry more about the breeder's experience and investment in the breed. Find out what other breeders and fanciers have to say. Some breeders have nice web sites and purchase nice dogs but then come to find out, no people active in GSDs have ever heard of them or seen them at any trials, seminars, shows, etc. Not saying that is the case here, but I would be looking for a good breeder in a more general sense than what specific lines they are using.


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LiesjeI still think in your case, lines might be an afterthought. I would worry more about the breeder's experience and investment in the breed. Find out what other breeders and fanciers have to say. Some breeders have nice web sites and purchase nice dogs but then come to find out, no people active in GSDs have ever heard of them or seen them at any trials, seminars, shows, etc. Not saying that is the case here, but I would be looking for a good breeder in a more general sense than what specific lines they are using.


Yeah, this is pretty much what I'm doing. I've found some other breeders I am interested in. One in particular doesn't breed DDR lines, however they seem to place MUCH emphasis on matching the right pup with the right owner. Their guarantee page says a lot of good things too (at least from what I can tell). I'm getting some opinions on them from another member here. I will be less concerned with lines and more concerned with finding an experienced breeder with a good reputation who knows well how to match pup to owner.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: WolfstraumWhen you mix "type" - or outcross - you have more traits out in the gene pool and which ones "stick" in the individual pup may vary. If you want a DDR dog for a companion, I'd say stick with straight DDR or DDR x WGR lines.


I believe this is the case with my pup. I have heard many things about her Czech grandsire over the years from his previous owner and other folks that knew him, and she sounds a fair amount like him. More so than the dogs from her DDR line sires side of the family.

She also reminds me of the female you were talking about, not super high ball drive, (Good, but not NEARLY like the WG dogs can be.) but "real" prey...


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: HBH
> I will be less concerned with lines and more concerned with finding an experienced breeder with a good reputation who knows well how to match pup to owner.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I still think that knowing which line to go is important because it's narrows the breeders and allows to make more thru research. It's easier to say 'find a good breeder' than to do it if you have to research Am showlines, West German workinglines, DDRs, Czech, Western Showlines... It will take years for a novice person to talk with the breeders, visit them, see the dogs, study the pedigrees, research the progeny, talk with their clients, spend countless hours on all kind of forums that mention those breeders, exchange tons of emails, make phone calls, do everything right ... 

I'm not saying that DDR is the way to go I'm just saying that I wasn't disappointed with my second puppy because before I contacted any breeder I knew exactly what I wanted from a dog, I knew in what areas I could compromise (in my case it was the color and prey drive) and because of my research I knew what to expect from my puppy. I must say that this approach worked for me and I am thrilled with Anton's temperament and looks (he's on a smaller side and that's EXACTLY what I wanted). I am not sure that if I just had a general idea what I wanted that the breeder would make such an excellent match.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

True, but I think just narrowing type is sufficient here. The intricacies between lines and how it pertains to the dogs training and work probably won't apply, based on the criteria the OP has given. Also, plenty of working line breeders have dogs from various lines, or dogs with mixed lineage, so picking one line cuts off a lot of good possibilities. Me personally, if I had gone based on my own initial research, I would have picked the opposite of what I would pick now after familiarizing myself with some different lines of dogs and understanding how they train and work. I would pick a specific line just based on web information. If she wants DDR, I don't have a problem with that but I would only pick one or rule out another after having met several people experienced with both and interacted with both.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I soooooo agree with forget the lines,,find a good breeder and go from there ) Altho I do love my DDR dogs))

I have found, with my 1/2 DDR dog (and this may be a gender thing to) He was the most biddable dog, easy to train, would go all day if you wanted, but had no problem lounging around either,,I would call him a highly adaptable dog to any situation. VERY VERY aloof,,late maturer. He was like "Otto's" description in a previous post,,a dog that anyone would want to live with (in fact came from a male out of Otto's breedings)

My now 10mth old female a different ball of wax or should I say "ball of fire" LOL..She is out of a slovakian import (eurosport/czech), and male ddr/czech...I love her to death, but I can tell she is going to be a slow maturer, she's a suspicious dog that may be due to age, but a dog that will go into any situation without hesitation, smart as a whip, not real social, easy trainer, and LOADS of energy) This dog will go from morning till nite non stop. I don't think that has to do with age, as it does with HER..

She's alot of fun, but I highly doubt she'd do well in a situation where she was crated for 8 hours in fact I know she wouldn't). Again, that's just "her"..

when you connect with breeders your interested in, no matter the lines, go check them out, meet their dogs, and go with your gut))


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: JakodaCD OAI soooooo agree with forget the lines,,find a good breeder and go from there ) Altho I do love my DDR dogs))


Yes! My highline boy was also very easy to live with, quick study - never had to teach him something twice. He could walk into any situation and Bogart it. The girl - forget about it - she was completely nukkin futz until she was 5. Still a little nuts but atleast she walks down the stairs now instead of flying off the 5th step.


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

I will not focus so much on lines...however, after this thread, I'm not sure I can help but be a little partial to the DDR lines. =)


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I think if you go with a DDR breeder who's breeding them with family life in mind, you will be happy. It's definitely a question to ask, how many dogs have you placed in working homes vs how many dogs to pet homes.


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## TxTech (Mar 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaI think if you go with a DDR breeder who's breeding them with family life in mind, you will be happy. It's definitely a question to ask, how many dogs have you placed in working homes vs how many dogs to pet homes.


Good question...I'll take note of that. I'm getting better about explaining my situation to breeders and asking them if they think their lines will produce a good dog for us.


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## 2020palm (May 30, 2020)

Brandon Coker said:


> I'm glad you posted this....looking into them as well.


Looks like several of us are considering this breeder. I found out about him From one of the big name longtime DDR trainers that has one of his dogs. I agree that the strong SCH line breeding you can get to much dog, but my female was from a strong DDR titled on both sides line (sch3)and she was perfect for us. Just had to supervise around small children. 😳 I’m overwhelmed trying to find the right dog!


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## 2020palm (May 30, 2020)

Fodder said:


> but all east german dogs arent necessarily from the original DDR lines?
> 
> i read a debate once about whether or not the original DDR lines still exist.


Can you provide specifics? I know some people don’t like him personally but what about the dogs?


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## 2020palm (May 30, 2020)

TxTech said:


> Yep, I'm back with yet another breeder that I would like opinions on. This breeder was recommended by Runderberg (because Runderberg will not be breeding for a while). They are in Houston, TX.
> 
> 娱乐是一种态度
> 
> What do you guys think? You can find their health guarantee if you click on "available puppies" under "for sale."


Do you know anything about, have you looked at Blackthorn working shepherds? That’s another one that was recommended.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

2020palm said:


> Can you provide specifics? I know some people don’t like him personally but what about the dogs?


this thread is 13yrs old…..
i don’t even know who the “him” you’re referring to is and made no comment pertaining to a specific person or dogs.
a current search will answer all your questions about DDR dogs. all these posters you’re quoting are long gone.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Blackthorn was another breeder that was recommended to me, but their stud wasn't a good fit for my female, due to some of the dogs that wouldn't mesh well with my female's lineage.

Would recommend, though!


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