# new behavior: growling at my wife



## mws

Hi everyone –

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but I have a concern about my 16 month-old-gsd. 


He’s been doing some troubling growling lately with my wife. A typical situation is that she’ll be sitting at her desk working, he’ll calmly walk over and sleepily put his head on her lap, she’ll pet him and be sweet to him, and then while he’s being petted and is seemingly super calm he’ll let out a very quiet growl for no reason that we can discern. When this happens my wife will disengage, make a little distance, and tell him sternly “No! You do not growl at me!” She’ll then put him through a series of obedience commands. His reaction is to get really excited and race through the commands like he’s trying to make it up to her. It almost seems like he surprises himself with the growls. This only happens once in a while (like once in every 50 times they snuggle) and the growling has never happened with me.


To give you a little background: my wife and I try to split the his care pretty evenly: I feed and exercise him in the mornings and the evenings, but she takes care of him all day since she works from home. He’s been through a few levels of obedience training and we’ve been doing NILIF with him since day one. All of this has helped him to overcome some fearful reactiveness he had when he was younger (always with strangers – growling at us is new), but he’s still clearly a work in progress.

Any suggestions on why this may be happening? It’s not like she’s bothering him or invading his space – usually he’s coming to her!

Any suggestions on how to address it? It’d be a hard behavior to replicate for a behavior list because he does it so sporadically. 

Thanks!


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## hunterisgreat

The dog doesn't care about her yelling no... she backed away so he got what he asked for from her. (assuming it was an actual aggressive response directed at her)

Dog growls at me means I immediately let him know that doesn't fly with me. Its a behavior you want to extinguish, not modify. Immediate and strong correction is appropriate I think.

caveat: make sure it was actually an aggressive growl and not just a noise that sounds like one before you start correcting. My male's breathing every once and a while sounds like a muffled growl. Also, make sure it wasn't directed at the other dog, or a bird, or something other than her.

Don't anthropomorphize  He's a dog. He wasn't making anything up to her. He just wanted the reward he was expecting after the obedience.


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## Jax08

Are you sure he's growling? Or is he just talking? Jax talks all the time and it could sound like a growl.

On the other hand, be careful about correcting for growling. Growling is a warning. You won't want them to NOT warn you because you've taught them to not growl.

And by immediately going into an obedience drill, you may have taught him that growling at her gets him attention.


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## hunterisgreat

btw... he has no space. All the space in the house is yours and your wife's (except for his kennel, which is his) If my dogs choose to lay in their kennel, I don't bother them as a rule. Everywhere else is mine


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## mws

Thanks for the input so far.

I'm pretty sure it's not any other noise. He is a great source of entertaining yawns and farts and burps and heavy breathing noises, but this is unmistakeable growling. It's quiet and pretty tame sounding compared to his "mailman growl" or his "I-don't-care-if-you-are-the-vet, don't-touch-me-there growl," but it's a growl.

Please do keep the opinions coming.


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## Kris10

Are you sure he is growling? It just doesn't sound like a scenario that would cause a dog to growl. They will make all sorts of sounds to "talk" to you. Sometimes when Max is relaxed and lying down he will make a deep "moo" sound or grunt.


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## GSD07

Did she accidentally touch a painful spot on his body? Ears can be painful when inflamed.


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## Lilie

My GSD has a low 'growl' noise when he is very content. Usually when scratching his face or chest. He'll even close his eyes and enjoy it.


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## Emoore

I agree with the others. It would be very very unusual for a dog to come up to someone, solicit attention, and then growl at them while receiving the attention. My dog makes a low growl when I'm rubbing his head and ears, but it's an expression of pleasure.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Kris10 said:


> Are you sure he is growling? It just doesn't sound like a scenario that would cause a dog to growl. They will make all sorts of sounds to "talk" to you. Sometimes when Max is relaxed and lying down he will make a deep "moo" sound or grunt.


My dogs will do this too....


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## GSD_Xander

Emoore said:


> I agree with the others. It would be very very unusual for a dog to come up to someone, solicit attention, and then growl at them while receiving the attention. My dog makes a low growl when I'm rubbing his head and ears, but it's an expression of pleasure.


Xander does this too - it's like a deep sigh or exhale and then groan...it's always when I rub right behind his ears 

A for the OP - sorry though - IDK. Some of the other PP's had some great ideas as to what it could be or what to do.


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## GSDElsa

I agree the scenario that is happening when he "growls" sounds a bit off from what you usually hear about. But it's hard to say since we aren't htere to see actual body language. Especially if he's getting all excited to be getting her to pay "real" attention to him (making him work for her). I have a feeling it might be an attention getting growl rather than a warning--at least in the way it's described in the post.

I know Elsa does a sort of "rarah rwah" sort of sound when she's being spoiled on the couch and we stop petting her--it's soley wanting attention.


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## JKlatsky

It doesn't sound the norm, but I won't rule it out if you're confident that is what you are hearing. 

My Cade is almost two and lately he's been reacting more to our old male who's been posturing at him alot lately through the crate (We don't allow it if we are there to prevent it, but their crates are in the same room. We've recently put a board up between their crates as well) Male hormones I guess. I've noticed sometimes when I let Cade out of his crate, he's a little tense. We'll go out into the main part of the house and if I go to pat him, he'll let out a low growl. He did it this morning to me when DH let him out, he came to get up on the couch with me and let out a low growl. I think it's sort of like redirected aggression. He hasn't totally let go of the state of mind that he had when he was in his crate. A few quick obedience commands and he's usually right as rain. Is it possible that something could be bothering him that he hasn't let go of when he goes to visit your wife? 

I would continue to work through some NILIF and increase your wife's role in pack leadership for awhile. Most important is to NOT back up. If he is growling, you cannot act afraid of the dog. Make him back up. Stop petting him and tell him to down or sit and when he complies then put distance between you. If it ever escalates, personally, that is when the dog and I would have a Come to Jesus chat. I do agree that that sort of behavior has to be extinguished quickly and if that is not something you or your wife is comfortable with then you need to get a trainer who is.


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## cshepherd9

This may seem like a silly question, but is there a window in your wife's office? Is it possible that he is growling at something he sees out the window? I was down on the floor with Willow the other night and she became alert and started growling but she was looking right at the patio door and I knew she either heard or seen something. I asked her "What?" and she got up and ran right to the door.


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## jakeandrenee

Can you get it on video?


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## mws

Thanks again for the suggestions everyone.

I guess it could be a sort of "contented rumble" like some have mentioned rather than a _back off_ growl. In support of this theory is the fact that he doesn't show teeth, curl lips, or get his neck hair riled up in these situations.

Can anyone recommend a good way to test this "contented rumble" theory without risk of escalating the situation if is a _back off_ growl?

We're thinking of trying this: if there's a growl/rumble, she will immediately start ignoring him and go back to whatever she was doing. We're thinking that if it was a _back off_ growl he'd walk away and if it was a "contented rumble" he'd hang out and solicit more petting. After we are able to test his intention like this a few times we'd be in a better position to know whether we need to be correcting this behavior going forward.


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## Jax08

Video tape it and post it on here.


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## Emoore

Redbug said:


> Our male GSD, (4 1/2 year old), started the growling behavior at my wife, also. Everything has been fine up until about 3 months ago. There is no mistaking this type of growl. The dog is attached to me and I think it is a protective type of behavior. He will do it if the dog and I are in a back bedroom and my wife walks in. He will get up and give a long drawn out aggressive growl. It can get loud. It scares my wife and I don't know what to do. No other problems with Pal other than that. This thing has just started...I can't think of any changes in the household and Pal does not do it when I am not around. My wife does not deserve this!
> 
> What is the correct way to stop this? Harmony in the house like it used to be is the goal... Help! What training do us humans and canine need to do?


Redbug, this thread is a year old and about a completely different issue. You might get a better response if you start your own thread as people usually only read the first post or two in a thread to see what it's about.


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## Redbug

Oh, sorry Emoore. I will start a new thread. Good idea.


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## GregK

Was MWS's issue ever resolved or don't we know?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Their last post was their last post on this thread so unknown.


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## GregK

Oh well. Guess it'll remain a mystery.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Yep, no Paul Harvey moment here!


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## GregK

good day


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

:rofl:


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## PaddyD

And now for the REST of the story....Page TWO


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## GregK

was there ever a page 3?


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## Saynt J

mws said:


> Hi everyone –
> 
> Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but I have a concern about my 16 month-old-gsd.
> 
> 
> He’s been doing some troubling growling lately with my wife. A typical situation is that she’ll be sitting at her desk working, he’ll calmly walk over and sleepily put his head on her lap, she’ll pet him and be sweet to him, and then while he’s being petted and is seemingly super calm he’ll let out a very quiet growl for no reason that we can discern. When this happens my wife will disengage, make a little distance, and tell him sternly “No! You do not growl at me!” She’ll then put him through a series of obedience commands. His reaction is to get really excited and race through the commands like he’s trying to make it up to her. It almost seems like he surprises himself with the growls. This only happens once in a while (like once in every 50 times they snuggle) and the growling has never happened with me.
> 
> 
> To give you a little background: my wife and I try to split the his care pretty evenly: I feed and exercise him in the mornings and the evenings, but she takes care of him all day since she works from home. He’s been through a few levels of obedience training and we’ve been doing NILIF with him since day one. All of this has helped him to overcome some fearful reactiveness he had when he was younger (always with strangers – growling at us is new), but he’s still clearly a work in progress.
> 
> Any suggestions on why this may be happening? It’s not like she’s bothering him or invading his space – usually he’s coming to her!
> 
> Any suggestions on how to address it? It’d be a hard behavior to replicate for a behavior list because he does it so sporadically.
> 
> Thanks!


I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. Kanan is 21 months old and has always been loving towards both me and my wife. Laying next to us while watching tv, or sometimes he'll lay in bed for a few minutes at the end of the day, he was always happy and affectionate. About a year ago I switched from working evenings to midnights, so I am home all day, almost every day with him.

About 4 weeks ago (almost 20 months old to the day) he started growling at the both of us after a regular day outside. He was laying on the bed in the spare room, like he always does, and looking out the window. My wife went up to him to kiss him and pet him, another common act, and he let out a deep, low growl, with his ears down. She was startled because she thought she hurt him so she backed off. I came in to see what happened, and he growled at me too. Well, I'm not going to take any sh*t from the puppy I've raised since he was 10 weeks old, so I scruffed him and stared him down while speaking sternly. That ceased the behavior, at least towards me. In the following days she did the same once or twice but that was just a band-aid on the problem. 

As of today, he's still uneasy around the wife. You can see a change in behavior when she's around. He'll leave the room when she walks in, or if I'm in the room, he'll come to my side. He is reluctant to obey her commands, and sometimes he'll still let out a low growl.... twice he went a little further and raised his lip. 

I think that last month he tried to re-establish his place in the pack, and when he didn't get the top spot by challenging me, he went to the next one in the hierarchy. It looks like he thinks he's really in the running for the #2 position. 

But it's not as black and white as it seems. The same day he started growling, I also put a fresh dose of Vectra 3D tick repellent on him, and also he was outside, but not directly in the way of, when I sprayed a bug repellent on the lawn. None of the spray hit him directly, but he was laying on the patio while I was in the backyard. It was apparent then that one of the agents, or both, was bothering him. I wet him down with fresh water and he seemed fine for the rest of the night.... but the growling at my wife started back up. 

Also, he had been bitten by a tick. We got it off completely, and it wasn't engorged so we got it early. He's had 2 Lyme's tests since then, and they were both negative. He also had a hard landing coming down the stairs and whacked his hind leg into the couch end table, and that's been bothering him too. The vet gave him a cortisone shot in case it's a joint problem, and we have an oral NSAID for any inflammation. We're waiting back on the rest of the blood work. 

The last month around here has been stressful, to put it gently. I keep telling my wife that she has to work with him more, not just come home from work (she works 12 hour days), give some kissy faces and baby talk to him, then go to sleep. Kanan growling at her is upsetting her, rightfully, and her stress level is elevated, and I think the dog sees that, so his stress level around her is raised. We've tried comforting him when he's stressed and about to growl. She's tried always having a bag of treats with her to reward him for good behavior. It's still looking like he's placed himself above her. When we are both around and she's calling him to come, he looks at me for permission. I'm insisting that she works with him more, walks him either before or after work for 15 minutes so he sees her holding the leash. I'm telling her to feed him so he sees her as a provider to him, not just someone that is just around and pays little attention to him. She doesn't do more work with him, hardly does any work with him at all. She hasn't since we brought him home. I think that's the source of the problem. I have been pretty much the sole caregiver and trainer.

Sorry if my lengthy post is of little help, but hopefully it is of some comfort. You're not alone in this.


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## Trotter

Saynt J said:


> I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. Kanan is 21 months old and has always been loving towards both me and my wife. Laying next to us while watching tv, or sometimes he'll lay in bed for a few minutes at the end of the day, he was always happy and affectionate. About a year ago I switched from working evenings to midnights, so I am home all day, almost every day with him.
> 
> About 4 weeks ago (almost 20 months old to the day) he started growling at the both of us after a regular day outside. He was laying on the bed in the spare room, like he always does, and looking out the window. My wife went up to him to kiss him and pet him, another common act, and he let out a deep, low growl, with his ears down. She was startled because she thought she hurt him so she backed off. I came in to see what happened, and he growled at me too. Well, I'm not going to take any sh*t from the puppy I've raised since he was 10 weeks old, so I scruffed him and stared him down while speaking sternly. That ceased the behavior, at least towards me. In the following days she did the same once or twice but that was just a band-aid on the problem.
> 
> As of today, he's still uneasy around the wife. You can see a change in behavior when she's around. He'll leave the room when she walks in, or if I'm in the room, he'll come to my side. He is reluctant to obey her commands, and sometimes he'll still let out a low growl.... twice he went a little further and raised his lip.
> 
> I think that last month he tried to re-establish his place in the pack, and when he didn't get the top spot by challenging me, he went to the next one in the hierarchy. It looks like he thinks he's really in the running for the #2 position.
> 
> But it's not as black and white as it seems. The same day he started growling, I also put a fresh dose of Vectra 3D tick repellent on him, and also he was outside, but not directly in the way of, when I sprayed a bug repellent on the lawn. None of the spray hit him directly, but he was laying on the patio while I was in the backyard. It was apparent then that one of the agents, or both, was bothering him. I wet him down with fresh water and he seemed fine for the rest of the night.... but the growling at my wife started back up.
> 
> Also, he had been bitten by a tick. We got it off completely, and it wasn't engorged so we got it early. He's had 2 Lyme's tests since then, and they were both negative. He also had a hard landing coming down the stairs and whacked his hind leg into the couch end table, and that's been bothering him too. The vet gave him a cortisone shot in case it's a joint problem, and we have an oral NSAID for any inflammation. We're waiting back on the rest of the blood work.
> 
> The last month around here has been stressful, to put it gently. I keep telling my wife that she has to work with him more, not just come home from work (she works 12 hour days), give some kissy faces and baby talk to him, then go to sleep. Kanan growling at her is upsetting her, rightfully, and her stress level is elevated, and I think the dog sees that, so his stress level around her is raised. We've tried comforting him when he's stressed and about to growl. She's tried always having a bag of treats with her to reward him for good behavior. It's still looking like he's placed himself above her. When we are both around and she's calling him to come, he looks at me for permission. I'm insisting that she works with him more, walks him either before or after work for 15 minutes so he sees her holding the leash. I'm telling her to feed him so he sees her as a provider to him, not just someone that is just around and pays little attention to him. She doesn't do more work with him, hardly does any work with him at all. She hasn't since we brought him home. I think that's the source of the problem. I have been pretty much the sole caregiver and trainer.
> 
> Sorry if my lengthy post is of little help, but hopefully it is of some comfort. You're not alone in this.


Your dog thinks he's leading your pack, you're #2, and the wife is #3. In your place, I'd lock him down (crate) for 2 weeks to reestablish (or establish) proper human-dog hierarchy, basically start over. Let him see you control every aspect of his life for 2 weeks - no fun, walks, food, training, etc. that you don't initiate/terminate. Always on leash when out of the crate, even in the house. Not loose in the house, just out for walks (loose or tight heel, no ranging) then back in crate and eats in crate. No lovey-dovey kissing, etc. This is a dog, not a child. Maintain a cool/aloof demeanor to him for 2 weeks - no attaboys, good dogs, etc. 

"We've tried comforting him when he's stressed and about to growl." Comforting him when he's stressed? Child psychology is misapplied to a dog. You're merely reinforcing the stressed behavior as appropriate, so that should stop. Dog should be exercised on walks/runs, or w/bike or treadmill, flirt pole, etc. until tired (every day). No ball chasing or other prey drive enforcers. No tug games until he knows you're top dog.

That course will fix the dog, then split care, etc. duties w/wife, both feed, give occasional treats, obedience. Reasonable affection, but too much without rules/boundaries will result in recurrence. Dog has to be behind all humans in household hierarchy or you/wife won't be able to control him elsewhere. This is an ongoing process that may need an occasional repeat performance if things slip back.


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## Longfisher

*It's happened once with my Zeus at 8 mos.*

I was downstairs in the kitchen washing dishes (yes, men do ALL the dishes and clean up the kitchen in my family in repayment for the wonderful cooking the wife and daughter do which we seem inherently inept at) and my wife was coming down the stairs with her laptop and files to leave on an appointment. She got almost to the landing in our two flights when I heard a growl from Zeus.

I didn't care one bit if he was looking out a window at something else or if he was having a bad day or if he was constipated or if he'd just thought she was someone else he might not like, he got it from me right away and very forcefully.

First, I yelled his name and added a decidedly loud "Nein". At the same moment I bolted from my work at the sink and charged him for all this old body is worth. It was my sincere intent to make immediate contact with him and throw him down and pin him. But he was wise to this and was in no mood to challenge me (I think I'm the pack leader here both among dogs and humans). He ran off to the living room where we have a large sectional and began running from me.

I was so angry that I chased him around it for a good 5 minutes and until he was totally intimidated with his tail between his legs and pissing on the floor. Then the wife let him out the back door and he ran for the furthest place in the yard and hid behind a small bay leaf bush we have.

We've never seen that again. The wife is secure.

** comments removed by ADMIN. Rude, antagonistic, intent to start conflict**

LF


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## erfunhouse

Does it sound like "ummmmmmmmm" or "huuuuuuummmmmmm" or even "ummmmummmmmummm"? Metro made that noise, and it was contentment. He was happy and loved and relaxing/basking in the glow of it all


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Jax08

Did anyone notice this thread is over 2 years old?


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## GregK

Longfisher said:


> I was downstairs in the kitchen washing dishes (yes, men do ALL the dishes and clean up the kitchen in my family in repayment for the wonderful cooking the wife and daughter do which we seem inherently inept at) and my wife was coming down the stairs with her laptop and files to leave on an appointment. She got almost to the landing in our two flights when I heard a growl from Zeus.
> 
> I didn't care one bit if he was looking out a window at something else or if he was having a bad day or if he was constipated or if he'd just thought she was someone else he might not like, he got it from me right away and very forcefully.
> 
> First, I yelled his name and added a decidedly loud "Nein". At the same moment I bolted from my work at the sink and charged him for all this old body is worth. It was my sincere intent to make immediate contact with him and throw him down and pin him. But he was wise to this and was in no mood to challenge me (I think I'm the pack leader here both among dogs and humans). He ran off to the living room where we have a large sectional and began running from me.
> 
> I was so angry that I chased him around it for a good 5 minutes and until he was totally intimidated with his tail between his legs and pissing on the floor. Then the wife let him out the back door and he ran for the furthest place in the yard and hid behind a small bay leaf bush we have.
> 
> We've never seen that again. The wife is secure.
> 
> ** comments removed by ADMIN. Rude, antagonistic, intent to start conflict**
> 
> LF


Seriously????????


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## Msmaria

GregK said:


> Seriously????????


Glad I didn't have to be the one to say it  but I was thinking it..lol


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## David Taggart

Complying with his instinct of hierarchal order, you dog has challenged your wife's position to be the next to the leader. I don't think he understood why you were chasing him, all in all, it should have been your wife to pin him down. You should better walk together, just three of you, you, your wife and your dog, ask your wife to play ball with him, this way you will reestablish his sense of the pack unity. Dogs wouldn't threaten without a reason, you, probably, don't spend much time with your wife, so, your dog decided to take the advantage and alienate her even further. I don't want to say you had it, but, sometimes our dogs take our unimportant friendly arguments with our beloved ones rather seriously, they understand such situations as some opening, some gap when they can squeeze in. He is young and driven by natural instincts, dogs establish and reestablish their position in hierarchy frequently, it will take a while before he realizes that nothing will change.


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## fuzzybunny

This thread is over 2 years old as Jax has mentioned.


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## David Taggart

> This thread is over 2 years old as Jax has mentioned.


What happened with the wife? Eaten?


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## fuzzybunny

David Taggart said:


> What happened with the wife? Eaten?


I hope not


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## Arlene/Archer

GregK said:


> Seriously????????



I know, I actually laughed when I read that. My own dog is chastised by a stern 'no'. I've never had to gallop around terrorizing him to get the desired effect either, or 'pin him'. Seriously, it's no wonder there are so many owners bitten by their dogs.


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## GregK

Arlene/Archer said:


> Seriously, it's no wonder there are so many owners bitten by their dogs.


Yep.


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## LifeofRiley

This thread was re-started yesterday by a poster named Saynt J who is experiencing a similar problem. 

SayntJ, if I were you, I would start a new thread describing your issue. You will get more input on your issue doing so. I think a lot of people didn't see your post on this thread.


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