# Building Searches. How do you do it?



## mycobraracr

I couldn't decide what section to put this in, so I just went with this one. 

I am getting Kimber ready for her SDA Police Dog 3 title. One of the things that entails is a building search. Now I don't know what the building will be. It can be everything from an office building to a barn or anything in between. She will be looking for a "bad guy" who can be hiding anywhere. In the ceiling, inside a box under a bed, anywhere the judge decides to put him. The person hiding will not be wearing bite gear, so the decoy will be somewhere the dog can't get to them and the dog must go into an alert. 

I've started Kimber in the usual search for her toy type stuff. Then I went to an office building and let her see the decoy go into a room. When I sent her, the decoy would shut the door and we would encourage her to start barking. Once barking the decoy would open the door and let her in for a bite. From there I faded out her being able to see him hide. Usually we would keep it to one section of a building or shop. We then moved to the decoy being able to hide in the whole building and she had to either find and alert or find and bite depending if she could reach him or not. We are just now starting to introduce different elevations, such as the decoy up on shelving or on top of another structure. This method seems to be working okay, but like everything else, I know there are a thousand ways to teach it. I'm the type of person who likes to know as many methods as I can. So how do you teach it? SAR people? What do you guys do?


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## Slamdunc

Bahhhhh, I typed a long response and it got timed out and lost……Grrrrrrrrrr That and the password changes have made reposting it, well not so enjoyable. 

Here is a video of a patrol dog that I trained last year doing a nice methodical building search. This was two months into training. The dog is searching for a decoy with no equipment and checks every room, before proceeding further down the building. 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOlng3BQp7c


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## Jax08

Hey Jim! Saw your videos of some little sista searching last night. She rocks!!!


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## Slamdunc

HA! Thanks! 

Jody showed you the videos of my little Francesca? 

She is killing it with her narcotics training. I think I am going to certify her on Monday and start working her when Boomer retires. It's funny, because I have done so little actual training with that dog and she is so hot on the narcotics work. She is a fun dog to work and I love the nose to source passive response. I imprinted her on the odors at 3 - 5 months then let it go for almost a year, doing very little with the narcotics work and she definitely has it. Probably, the easiest narcotics dog that I have trained and has absolutely no bad habits or associations. I ran 7 cars with her last night in 90 degree heat with two blanks and 10 finds, interiors and exteriors. All blind to me, she nailed every one with out even getting gassed. 

I took her to work last night and we had a car stopped and another K-9 alerted and we recovered some dope, for the heck of it I ran her on the car and she nailed it as well. I am going to train her to be a courier dog and search people, that is going to be interesting.


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## Jax08

She did! I was there last night for a lesson. Francesca was ON it. All those dogs have great noses. Nosework looks like a blast.


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## Slamdunc

Detection work is a blast and I have started training some folks in the canine nose worx stuff. I am involved with Spikesk9fund.org and I am going to be be doing some seminars on getting started in the Nose work, problem solving and some advanced searching techniques. It will be a fundraiser for spikesK9 and something that anyone with any dog can do. Big dogs, little dogs, old dogs, young dogs as long as they have a nose they can do it.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Slamdunc said:


> She is killing it with her narcotics training. I think I am going to certify her on Monday and start working her when Boomer retires.


What happened to Boru?


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## Jax08

Jim - do you see a conflict in doing nosework along with IPO? Will it mess up the IPO tracking?

Actually....I'll take this to a new thread. We've already hi-jacked mycobraracr's thread enough!!


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## Slamdunc

MineAreWorkingline said:


> What happened to Boru?


Ohh, I still have Boru. I am waiting to start a patrol school with a green handler and a green dog this month. We have done our handler selection, PT test, decoying, oral interview process and last 3 evals. We selected a really good Officer. I have already tested and selected a very nice Mali X GSD mix for him. I tried to get the new handler to take Boru, but he wants no part of that. I tried to retire another K-9 that is 9 years old and get that guy to take Boru and he said "no way." Since no one else wants him, will take him or can handle him, I am stuck with him. > I expect I will start the Patrol School for the new handler team by the end of this month, then I will have him certified as my new partner by September. 

I have done a good amount with Boru, but I am still working Boomer and until he retires there are only so many hours in the day. I have done all the training that I can by myself with Boru. I have laid the foundation for his hard surface tracking, taught him article or evidence searches, and he does some really nice obedience. 

When the new guy starts he will be Boru's pin cushion for the next 4 months. I really need to work on aggression control and the out with him. Two absolutely critical components with a dog like him. He is doing well, coming to work with me and Boomer most days, except when I take Francesca. :grin2: He lives at my house and we work and hang out together every day. He is doing well and is a lot of fun, loving the new 5 acres he gets to run around on.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Slamdunc said:


> Ohh, I still have Boru. I am waiting to start a patrol school with a green handler and a green dog this month. We have done our handler selection, PT test, decoying, oral interview process and last 3 evals. We selected a really good Officer. I have already tested and selected a very nice Mali X GSD mix for him. I tried to get the new handler to take Boru, but he wants no part of that. I tried to retire another K-9 that is 9 years old and get that guy to take Boru and he said "no way." Since no one else wants him, will take him or can handle him, I am stuck with him. > I expect I will start the Patrol School for the new handler team by the end of this month, then I will have him certified as my new partner by September.
> 
> I have done a good amount with Boru, but I am still working Boomer and until he retires there are only so many hours in the day. I have done all the training that I can by myself with Boru. I have laid the foundation for his hard surface tracking, taught him article or evidence searches, and he does some really nice obedience.
> 
> When the new guy starts he will be Boru's pin cushion for the next 4 months. I really need to work on aggression control and the out with him. Two absolutely critical components with a dog like him. He is doing well, coming to work with me and Boomer most days, except when I take Francesca. :grin2: He lives at my house and we work and hang out together every day. He is doing well and is a lot of fun, loving the new 5 acres he gets to run around on.


Good! It was a bit over due for an update on him. If you can find somebody to take him, is Francesca going to be the next Boomer?


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## Slamdunc

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Good! It was a bit over due for an update on him. If you can find somebody to take him, is Francesca going to be the next Boomer?


I can't find anyone to take him, I've tried. :surprise:


I was kidding about getting some one else to take him. He is staying with me and we are working out his issues and quirks. Francesca is no Boomer, Boomer is an all around outstanding dog that has spoiled me for the past 8 years on the street. He is over 10 now and still going strong. 

Francesca is a fantastic dog, great sport dog, does very well in IPO, tracking and super at narcotics detection. But, she is not going to be a patrol dog. She is a super sweet dog that will not bite a person the way Boomer will, and certainly not the way Boru will. A patrol dog needs to have some serious aggression and be willing to confront and engage a person if needed, IMO. I like a dog like Boru or Boomer for my patrol partner, a strong dog with a serious civil edge. Francesca will be a super single purpose detection dog, and my sport dog. Plus, my plan with her is a courier dog and I want her to be friendly and sweet, just the way she is.


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## mycobraracr

Jax08 said:


> Jim - do you see a conflict in doing nosework along with IPO? Will it mess up the IPO tracking?
> 
> Actually....I'll take this to a new thread. We've already hi-jacked mycobraracr's thread enough!!



No need to take it to a new thread. I recently ran into a situation with Kimber, where I started her articles for IPO style tracking. She wants to pick them up and bring them back to me because of our "article search" stuff we do. I have put a hold on articles on her IPO tracks until I can decide how I want her to continue. For now we need to focus on her Police Dog 3. We are entered for regionals in November and for nationals in May. 

Article Search 



Building search to decoy wearing hidden suit to passive bite. Horrible quality but...


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## Slamdunc

Nice work! 

Regarding your article searching it seems you have trained the retrieve similar to what is done in KNPV. Boru's foundation work in article searching was to retrieve the article as well. This is not how we train our Patrol dogs to indicate to evidence. We train similar to IPO, a down with the article between the dog's legs and NO mouthing. We find a good amount of guns that have been tossed while tracking suspects. I really don't want Boru to pick up a handgun and bring it to me. Boomer did it once and shook a revolver in the air. Not fun. Plus, it contaminates the article and can destroy fingerprint or DNA evidence. 

To correct or change Boru's retrieve, I am having him search for tent stakes that I place into the ground. I also use framing nails and will push them into the ground or asphalt. The nails and tent stakes are impossible to pick up and I reward the down and stare at the article. I have changed the command for the search and the ritual. Getting the dog to search for a nail pressed into the ground instills a very intense and accurate search and work ethic. The hardest part is finding the nail, be sure to know exactly where it is. Having him indicate to "fixed" objects like the nail or tent stake is correcting the retrieve behavior. I'm sticking with that for a while. Searching for small objects really develops accuracy, intensity and drive.


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## mycobraracr

Slamdunc said:


> Nice work!
> 
> Regarding your article searching it seems you have trained the retrieve similar to what is done in KNPV. Boru's foundation work in article searching was to retrieve the article as well. This is not how we train our Patrol dogs to indicate to evidence. We train similar to IPO, a down with the article between the dog's legs and NO mouthing. We find a good amount of guns that have been tossed while tracking suspects. I really don't want Boru to pick up a handgun and bring it to me. Boomer did it once and shook a revolver in the air. Not fun. Plus, it contaminates the article and can destroy fingerprint or DNA evidence.
> 
> To correct or change Boru's retrieve, I am having him search for tent stakes that I place into the ground. I also use framing nails and will push them into the ground or asphalt. The nails and tent stakes are impossible to pick up and I reward the down and stare at the article. I have changed the command for the search and the ritual. Getting the dog to search for a nail pressed into the ground instills a very intense and accurate search and work ethic. The hardest part is finding the nail, be sure to know exactly where it is. Having him indicate to "fixed" objects like the nail or tent stake is correcting the retrieve behavior. I'm sticking with that for a while. Searching for small objects really develops accuracy, intensity and drive.



Thanks! She was online during her building search because of the other people in the building. We've already learned she'll bite, so no need to take chances with them. 

The way I did it, was exactly like KNPV. When I started it, I was going to play in a KNPV style sport. At this point I'm doing things more IPO style. I'm breeding Kimber and have ran into a couple people who said they wouldn't stud to her because she's "untitled" even though she has seven titles on her, just not a precious IPO1. Apparently it's too hard to evaluate a dog without a IPO. Anyways that's a thread for another time. After SDA nationals, I will put an IPO1 on her and move on. She retrieves everything. I've actually had her search and retrieve pistols and AR's, just not in the same context as you haha. I recently have stopped working with the IPO articles until I can decide how I want to proceed with her. 

Jim, how do you start your building searches? How do you get the dog to start thinking high, low and alert to decoys it can't see, say behind a wall or in an attic?


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## Slamdunc

Mycobraracr,
My original post had the details of starting the building search that was timed out. 

With a green, new dog, I start the building search with the dog searching for the handler. The handler teases the dog and then runs into a building with a toy. The dog is then sent to search for the handler. This accomplishes several things, the dog learns to search in a stress free way. The dog immediately switches to it's "nose over it's eyes" faster. The dog also learns to search for human odor before learning to search for equipment, because sleeves and suits stink to a dog and have associations. 

I do this for about two weeks. The searches get longer and more complicated and the dog works in drive with out conflict to find the handler. With a green dog and new handler, this helps to develop the bond. IME, if you start with a decoy and a green dog you will introduce a lot of conflict and hectic behavior. I prefer to break training down into small components and modules. This does that quite well. 

Once the dog has the idea and is biting well on the suit, I add the decoy in. This is done in a very systematic fashion. I start with a decoy in the first room in the right side of the door. The dog finds the decoy, then we repeat with the decoy deeper in the right corner. Then the left corner, then next to the door on the left side. I go in a counter clockwise fashion. This teaches the dog to enter a room, go right and then check every corner and the left side before the dog exits the room. Trust me, if a dog is searching with it's eyes it can enter a room and miss a person concealed in the room. I understand that the olfactory system of a dog is 1/8 of it's brain and it's most reliable sense. But, many dogs rely on their eyes and are slow to switch to their nose or use their nose over their eyes. This is a skill that must be taught and proofed. 

We start with area searches outside and high finds in trees, on top of containers and buildings, etc. We do tracks that end in high finds and make the dog work it out. Tracks at night that end in a tree with no equipment teach a dog to follow it's nose and check high if that is where the source of the odor is. 

During building searches, we leave all th equipment outside and will pass a sleeve or a suit through window or exterior door after the dog alerts on the person with no equipment. 

Then we go to muzzle work and searches for a passive person with no equipment with a muzzle. 

One thing we do in the beginning is to use along line to force the dog to search every room in a systematic fashion. The long line also prevents the dog from leaving a door or a find to check for an alternate way to the decoy. Initially, the dog hits the odor behind a door and barks, then the door opens and the dog gets a bite. The dog learns to open the door to get in by strong barking. 

I hope this makes sense?


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## mycobraracr

That makes perfect sense. Thanks! Do you find the muzzle adds any issues? Being harder to smell through and all. I need to work a lot more high finds. We are trialing in November and I need to have it all down by then. I started them in a building still. Doing it outside is a great idea. 

If you're interested, keep an eye out on SDA. They are developing Police dog tracking titles. The tracks are long, over a minimum of three surfaces including negatives, the decoy lays the track leaving anything he wants as an article, and there is no official start flag. Just a "he ran that way". So you get a general direction and the dog must pick up the sent. We ran a test track a couple months ago in Alaska. It was a lot of fun!


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## Slamdunc

Your welcome. 

We acclimate the dogs to the muzzle doing obedience, tracking, hanging out, etc before we add any agitation or aggression work. The muzzle is not a factor in searching once the dog is acclimated to it. Start your high finds outside, have your decoy agitate, run away and hide in a tree. Do a quick track and watch for the "proximity alerts" and change in behavior. The dog will lift it's head and begin to scan up high. Don't help the dog, but when it gets to the decoy and alerts encourage barking. Have the decoy reward with a toy or bite from up in the tree. Then progress to harder finds, I will climb onto dumpsters, sheds, in boats, or even onto a building if I can. We hide in some crazy places, sometimes it gets a little sketchy getting up or down. I want the handler to think "Jim, would never go up there, would he?" I want the new handlers to start to doubt their dog and then realize the dog is correct, learning to trust the "compass." The "compass" is never wrong. 

You can do area searches this way as well. Have a decoy in a suit agitate the dog and run into the woods and climb an tree. Then send your dog off lead to find him. Reward the alert and barking. 

I will look into that SDA tracking, sounds interesting.


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## mycobraracr

Yesterday morning, I was playing at the park with Kimber. Usually we do some tracking and she just hangs out while I get a workout in. Well I decided to try something I hadn't done yet. I put a tug on a long line, drug it across the park (200 yards or so) and flung the tug up in a tree. I got Kimber out and gave her, her search command. I was amazed at how fast she ran it. We still haven't worked a ton of high searches. On her first one, she circled the tree the tug was in once, then tried to climb it. She finally sat under the tug and started barking. I flung the tug out of the tree and let her have it. We did a few of these and every one was better and better. It was fun to watch her progression. I lost my decoys (again) so I'm trying to do what I can without one.


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## mycobraracr

Since the weather has been nasty, we did some more searches this weekend. We went to a barn she'd never been to before. It had various animals living in it at times abs had all sorts of smells, stalls, tac rooms, hay storage and so on. Kimber had never been around before. I wasn't sure how she was going to handle the distraction especially since it was her first training day back from the puppies. Because of the layout, I changed my handling style to try and be more tactically conscious. I think it kinda screwed her up, and I miss read an alert from her. The decoy was hiding one stall over, she could smell them and alerted on the wall and I pulled her off :/. Well she was right. He right on the other side of the stall split. I didn't know where he was until we found him. The next search I went back to our old style and she found him in about 30 seconds. He went through the barn to an outside hay storage. He had climbed up and over the hay, hiding between the hay stacks and the wall. Kimber ran straight up the stack and jumped off the top to her bite hahaha. She'd never seen a hay stack before and didn't seem to care. Overall I'm really happy with how she did. I'm even a little surprised at how well she handled all the new distractions. She was so focused.


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## mycobraracr

Ran a search this morning. It was ugly. I can see Kimber relying on me for assurance a lot, she was very distracted this morning. The shop cat running around didn’t help. I feel like she didn’t start out in the correct drive. Normally her breathing pattern drastically changes when she’s hunting. I didn’t hear it this time. This was her first high find in a looong time and the “decoy” didn’t have protective equipment (suit/sleeve) to help with the scent. He did have a small wedge to give her a reward, but that was it. So much work to do. Advise is welcome. 

https://youtu.be/GeYYTyJmwlY


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## mycobraracr

I've ran a few searches with Kimber this last week. Just something for fun. She's doing pretty well with them. I haven't really worked her in about 8 or so months, so she's out of practice and it shows. Over all I'm happy with them though, 

In this one she is searching for a passive decoy. I didn't want her launching, but she had other ideas. This was far from a sterile environment, with people and dogs walking all through it before we started and stuff getting moved around. Overall I'm happy with it. 






This next one, she was the last dog to go. We had worked multiple dogs all through the shop, there was bite gear all over in various places. I had the decoy hide and only expose about 6 inches of his leg. I hadn't done something like this with her, and honestly was curious how she'd do with it. She did great with it! No real hesitation and just bit what she could get. She was having fun!


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## Slamdunc

Nice work and really nice dog! 

One thing I would recommend would be to get the dog "capped" or contained before sending the dog. I would make the dog quite during your warnings or commands at the front door. I do not allow our dogs to bark or whine before being sent in. The dog must be quiet and not barking or leaking drive. Yelling commands over a barking dog is problematic. Have your dog internalize that drive at the door and explode into the search when you give the search command. 

Really nice dog!


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## mycobraracr

Slamdunc said:


> Nice work and really nice dog!
> 
> One thing I would recommend would be to get the dog "capped" or contained before sending the dog. I would make the dog quite during your warnings or commands at the front door. I do not allow our dogs to bark or whine before being sent in. The dog must be quiet and not barking or leaking drive. Yelling commands over a barking dog is problematic. Have your dog internalize that drive at the door and explode into the search when you give the search command.
> 
> Really nice dog!



Thank you very much for the critique. Getting her to stop barking has been a hard one. When I was working her consistently it got much better. Unfortunately she suffered a back injury (my fault) last April and has been basically a house dog since. Her back is the reason I didn't do any high finds or anything that needs her to jump. 

We were doing her Police Dog 3 title in WDA. There is a building search in that and they want the dog barking at the door. To my knowledge it's a deterrent to someone in the house if this were a real situation. So how I was working it, was alerting her, making the announcement, then having her down and be silent for a second before sending her in. I noticed this helped her a ton to get into the correct drive. I could hear a substantial difference in her breathing. Even in these videos you can hear when she's hunting versus when she's looking. In the second video you can see me half a$$ get her into a down and quiet before sending her. 

A method I've been reading about a lot lately is having a the dog silent like you're saying and even having another officer even from a separate location make the announcement then having the dog sent in so the "suspect" doesn't know where the dog is actually coming from. This makes a lot of sense to me. I can see the reason for both methods depending on the situation.


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## Slamdunc

For me the dog has to be quiet when the warnings are given. For us there are very specific Supreme Court case law that requires the dog to be quiet during warnings. The reason is to give a suspect a chance to give up upon hearing the warnings. It also gives any innocent people in the building to come out and avoid being bitten. If a suspect claims he never heard the warnings, because the dog was so loud, and thought it was just a dog barking outside we open ourselves up to serious liability. The other reason is that there are times when it is not safe or tactically sound to give warnings nor do we want the dog to give us away. 

We do have other people give warnings for us and I may target my dog and send him from a distance into a building, across a parking lot or street for example. 

Having the dog remain quiet is easy to teach for the warnings, then give a command to "fire off" if that is needed. Getting the dog to bark on command is even easier.


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## mycobraracr

That makes complete sense. Ill work on that moving forward. Thank you for the advice! 

Our new adventure is going to be narcotics. Should be easier on her back than bite work. Shes probably the best dog Ill ever own, and need to keep her working haha.


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## Slamdunc

If you need any help or tips on getting her to be quiet at the door let me know, same with the narcotics work.


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## mycobraracr

Absolutely!!! I'm always open to advice, tips and training techniques. I've worked on some quiet type commands before searches before. Just nothing I spent a ton of time on. I did some at the last KNPV seminar I went to. She had to have a quiet command before one of the wooded searches. 

As far as the narcotics work, I know just enough to think I know something and screw it up haha. Well I like to think I'm a little better than that, but either way. I've done a little bit in the past, but nothing as formal as I'm going to do this go around. I'm planning on starting each odor individually. I know there is the stew method, and I've done some of that in the past, but in my head, working each odor independently will give her a stronger understanding of it. Since I'm doing this for my own experience and fun, I am not on a time crunch. I'm getting cocaine and meth first. Should be here any day now.


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