# Looking for breeder in Germany



## Sara L (Mar 14, 2017)

Hey guys, this is my very first post here. I grew up with dogs and have wanted a German Shepherd my entire life. I have recently moved to Grafenwoehr, Germany and am excited about being able to buy a German blood-lined GSD. I have one mixed breed female dog currently, who just hit 14 months and have just started looking into local GSD breeders. My spouse and I are looking for some breeder recommendations. I have asked around and the consensus so far is Haus Amberg German Shepherds. 

http://hausambergshepherds.com/about-us/

We are looking for a family pet, though I plan on attending training sessions with whatever breeder I purchase the puppy from. I prefer short haired but am not opposed to long haired. I really had my heart set on a sable coloring but after speaking with Haus, I realize their temperament may not be the best fit for our family. I did some research on show/working lines and discovered that majority of sable dogs are from working lines and that show lines (typically red and black here) are recommended for family pets. I am by no means an expert but I am trying to learn as much as I can. I prefer more straight backed and lean built GSDs but am aware these are characteristics of working lines. What is most important to me is to find a dog with the correct temperament so that we will all be happy 

If you have any advice to offer or any breeders to recommend, please let me know. Thank you!


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I can't offer you any advice about breeders in Germany, but in the U.S. it seems like working line breeders are often willing to sell the right puppy as an active companion/pet. I currently have a red and black WGSL dog that is a great fit for our family, but in the past I've had a working line as a pet, and he was wonderful. If your heart is set on a working line, and you're willing to provide the puppy with structure, training, exercise, and consistency, perhaps you can speak to some breeders in your area and ask for their input. I'm sure others on this site will have more detailed help to give you. Best of luck in your puppy search.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Welcome and good luck in your search!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

There are many many many IPO clubs in Germany.....sort of like VFW, Moose, Elk clubs here....they are social clubs as well as training clubs....I would suggest finding one or two of these, visiting, and finding a breeder active in one of them....the SV has a website, and it will have some sort of directory....I can't read German - too bad Sandra is not on the forum any longer, she would have easily been able to direct you to what was available near you....

If you connect to me on Facebook - I can link you to her for help



Lee


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Who have you talked to? Only the Americans around you or the Germans as well? Traveling in Germany is pretty easy, you can drive or use the train. Dogs are allowed on trains if you decide on a breeder that you take a train to. Personally, I would talk to the Germans and travel to see and talk to several breeders there rather than settle with the closest one. Not saying you might not like that one the best even after looking, but I would widen the search. When I bought a dog when I lived in Germany I asked a German friend to inquire for me to find breeders. I was then able to narrow it down to several and traveled to meet them before deciding on which breeder had the type of dog I wanted. If you don't know any Germans, go to a dog show, they're all around there just as they are here. Look at the German Shepherds you see there and talk to several breeders whose dogs you like. Then you can set up to visit them and meet more of their dogs. You'll also enjoy the vendors at the dog show where you can buy things for your shepherd puppy as well as the one at home.


Map » VDH.de Upcoming shows


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Think it would be fun to visit clubs in Germany and different breeders-hope you enjoy your search


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## Sara L (Mar 14, 2017)

I have mostly spoken to Americans in my area whose dogs I like. I have spoken to a few Germans that are married to Americans so my scope has been pretty limited so far. I have not made any German friends yet, unfortunately.
I am not concerned with staying close to Graf, as I will have my car sometime this week and will be able to travel freely around Germany. Haus Amberg just happens to be where everyone here as gotten their shepherds so far.

While I do favor the sable, I am a little nervous about my capabilities as a trainer, especially with a high drive working dog. I have been training my own dogs since I was literally a child and find that it comes naturally to me, but majority of them have been mixes and do not have the above average intelligence and drive GSDs are known for. Since I plan on attending training session through the breeder perhaps this is a possibility but I am nervous if I do not provide the right kind of training or mental stimulation, that I may cause problems. I live right next door to a dog park and very close to a few trails so I am not worried about exercise. My 14mo pup is still very hyper too and I know she will be thrilled to have a suitable play mate. 

Lee, I would love to connect with her if possible. I will message you.

Thanks


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

My dogs littermate is with vom Haus Rohner and they are breeding him. He has a really nice temperament. They both speak good English.


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## Sara L (Mar 14, 2017)

Thank you! I have contacted them. 

My replies aren't posting for some reason. Lee, I cannot message you until I have 5 posts


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

Don't assume that all working line pups will be high drive.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Sara L said "I really had my heart set on a sable coloring but after speaking with Haus, I realize their temperament may not be the best fit for our family."

well --- vom haus said this because they breed show line dogs --- 

the temperament of that "sable" GSD might be fantastically wonderful . 
read the introducing Marta - new girl at carmspack thread 

I mean here is a dog from some of the best competitive and working police dogs, yet an absolute sound, balanced, sane dog that I can take anywhere and she is good looking , and an excellent family pet .

she is NOT even my breeding ! (largely Mike Diehl behind the "plan")

Sara L
"I did some research on show/working lines and discovered that majority of sable dogs are from working lines and that show lines (typically red and black here) are recommended for family pets"


the GSD is a working breed 
If you don't take care of ALL the aspects necessary for work then you lose the predictability .
You lose the nerve base , the ability to adapt , the ability to take pressure and to discern.

the truth is that they are at the heart of things , now , two separate breeds .

IF I were in your boat in Germany I would seek out Gerhard Baumann who uses his dogs
to work his flocks of sheep -- at von Lord Fandor -- I have been following his breeding program
for years "von Lord Fandor"

and Parchimer Land who I had an excellent experience with


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sara L said:


> I really had my heart set on a sable coloring but after speaking with Haus, I realize their temperament may not be the best fit for our family.


I don't even know what that means.

Sables are typically working line. You can find a wonderful, stable, sable dog that is a great family companion.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

want a straight back ?

don't expect to find it from show lines in Germany .

here is what good conformation looks like "von Lord Fandor"

Hetty is a working HGH female .


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

None of my showlines have been on the extreme side of structure. There is nothing wrong with showlines and my dog has a wonderful temperament - but what do I know, I just hear this from my trainer who works tons of dogs. I would not be concerned with nerve issues with Timon.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

have you looked at the


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Yes but I don't really care for conformation shows. I just like doing stuff with my dogs. And TJ is a nice dog with a good temperament. And he runs around hiking just fine.

I recommended a dog based on temperament not because he runs around in a show ring. I get you don't like showlines and that is fine. I know plenty of working lines you couldn't pay me to own.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

mspiker03 said:


> Yes but I don't really care for conformation shows. I just like doing stuff with my dogs. And TJ is a nice dog with a good temperament. And he runs around hiking just fine.
> 
> I recommended a dog based on temperament not because he runs around in a show ring. I get you don't like showlines and that is fine. I know plenty of working lines you couldn't pay me to own.




I can personally attest to Melissa's dogs temperament. I have met TJ a couple times at various places. Always is comfortable in his surroundings, and very stable. Even when we decided to play games and see what type of random stuff we could get our dogs to do haha. Not extreme in conformation either.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*Let's please not turn this into a show line Vs working line bashing thread. Let the OP discover their own preference by visiting some clubs and maintaining an open mind. I am also not a show line fan, but know of some breeders that do care about balanced dogs with good character and drive to work. 

Thank you,

ADMIN Lisa*


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## Sara L (Mar 14, 2017)

carmspack said:


> well --- vom haus said this because they breed show line dogs


While they do breed show line dogs, they do occasionally have/have access to sables. They even have one trained girl for sale right now but did not think she would be a good fit. Maybe this one in particular has a very high drive and I assumed others would. Their show line pups sell for 1500 euro and this sable female was 2000 so I'm not sure what their motive would be if they weren't just trying to make sure we were a good fit. They do breed their dogs for their temperament as well as confirmation.
Everyone on base has a dog from the same breeder, and I'm talking like 10 different people. It's crazy. 

Mspiker03, I am not sure if you received my message because the whole 5 post rule. I did contact vom Haus Rohner and they told me they did not have any breedings planned for this year. I do not know if this was the truth, as I have heard from many an American about difficulties obtaining dogs from Germans based on their dislike of us. I don't know if that is particularly true either but I have experienced a little bit of this. 

Thank you all for the valuable input and I will continue researching breeders and plan a few visits around in the near future. My limit is about 2000 euro though. I have seen a few I REALLY liked that ran for 3-8k and that's out of my price range?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sara - first off I *think* the pricing is a bit of a rip off.....*THINK!!!!* If I import a working line puppy, I am going to pay 600E or maybe 800E - except from some kennel who is used to selling to Americans and jacks up the price (Maineiche, Salztalblick, Kathargo etc) ....and it sounds like this one is....

I know a showline kennel named haus Drexel used to breed sable showlines.....there is a lady who is German who married an American who dealt with them alot. I know another board member who was in Germany who got rather ripped off from a kennel or two as well.....so I think it may be more difficult to get a puppy there in your position 

Also, I do understand some cautioning coming from a SL breeder regarding WL puppies - many people there do not keep their WL dogs as pets, but they live in kennels and as such, the temperament is not quite the priority as it might be here....you may be more apt to get a puppy who is too busy, or the least promising working puppy due to it's nerves since you are American and not well connected.


If you want to send me an email with your contact info, I can get a friend to contact you who might be able to help you find a breeder with a decent puppy at a more normal price. ([email protected])


Lee


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

You'll find that many showline breeders will tell you working lines don't make good pets, and you'll find many working line breeders that say show lines are weak nerved. I had 3 different show line breeders tell me working lines do not make good pets, well I got a working line puppy anyways and she's a perfect house dog. Everyone has their own opinion and bias so the best way to find out what's true for you is to go out and see all the different lines yourself.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sara - I believe we are on track and I was told the pricing you were getting was for Americans, not locals.....I think you should get some reliable contacts via FB messaging now...

Lee


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## Sara L (Mar 14, 2017)

Thank you all, especially Lee for all of the help. I have gained some very wonderful contacts through this process so far. It will be a little challenging because I do not speak much German (I am learning) but I am confident I will be able to find the right pup with a little patience. ?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sara L said:


> Thank you all, especially Lee for all of the help. I have gained some very wonderful contacts through this process so far. It will be a little challenging because I do not speak much German (I am learning) but I am confident I will be able to find the right pup with a little patience. ?



Your German contact can advise you on what you can and can't do - LOL apparently you really cannot take a dog on the train! or shouldn't!


Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

OK Sara!!!! we are waiting for photos of Darius!!!!!!! I hear he is an absolute sweetheart!


Lee


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## lcordova (Jun 4, 2006)

Sara,
You were lucky....Lee is one of the most helpful persons in this forum.
I dont know her but she has always been helpful to me.
Seems you got a dog coming your way, congrats!


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## Sara L (Mar 14, 2017)

Alright, I got him! 
Here's his pedigree if anyone is interested: https://www.working-dog.com/dogs-details/4751921/Darius-von-der-Bruderschaft

As you can see, Darius and Nala are friends already 















I've included some pictures of him as a puppy (he's the one on his back) and some of his family as well. 1-5 is him. 6 is his mom, 7 is his dad, 8 is his uncle (on right), and 9 is his sister.
He's a little "rough around the edges" as he was used to the kennel life too. He is adjusting very well and very quickly! He's already learned a lot about the structure here and is the biggest sweetheart ever. <3


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Congratulations! He is stunning and so is his family!


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## Suki's Mom (Nov 24, 2008)

Congratulations!!


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Very nice! Congrats! His sire looks like my boy!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Wow - how nice to get so many puppy photos of him too! I understand that Nadine (breeder) is going to be available for advice and direction in his transformation from kennel to house dog....

so keep us posted!!!!


Lee


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

hooray !

a working line , sable , nicely conformed dog --- with a nice and logical pedigree with many lines leading to herding dog genetics 

familiar with many of the dogs . Seeing Fox Gleisdreieck brought mixed emotions. A huge smile because his owner was a good friend of mine , Josef Kuhn. He loved that dog . Described him as a fire red sable who was exceptionally easy to train - a natural . We discussed genetic obedience . He came by it honestly Fox vom Gleisdreieck .

haus knufken herding dogs 

I have a Tarbas h Knufken who carries Thilo as his grandsire ( maternal side ) son running through my pedigrees. This was the "Joker" who was trained by my son while we were furiously trying to get ahead of digging post holes for the horse's paddock. It rained every day . Half the time I was on my belly getting the water out -- and there was son all of 10 or so years training the Joker pup with his hockey skate shoe lace . 

the welling of the eyes because I had wanted to use this dog to consolidate some herding lines and to bring Marko to the fore .

It was not to be . My dear friend passed away before our collaborative plans could be fulfilled.

There are other dogs in your Darius' pedigree that I just love - Mentor Iris, Tino Felsenschloss , the Greg Zitadellenburg Greg von der Zitadellenburg

and more and more -- I like this pedigree !

I love the look of your dog , his build , the "energy" he sends in his pictures .

I guess I will always look at him with a great deal of fondness . I believe he is the type of dog that I am familiar with .

Great balance and self assured confidence . 

I think our friend ms wolfstraum found you a great representative of the working line german shepherd , and a great little GSD . Period.

congratulations and do please keep sending updates.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

You have another dog???? A female???? Hope she is spayed!!!!!!!! Even a six month old puppy can get a bit rowdy around a female in heat!!!!!!! And remember - this pup was in a kennel or a house for a visit, so you will need to crate train....there are plenty of resources here on the board to help with that!

Lee


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## Sara L (Mar 14, 2017)

Yes, on my OP it is clearly stated that I have a female dog. Sandra and everyone else were well aware of this which is why one of my criteria was that the prospective dog needed to be friendly towards other dogs. 
No, she is not fixed. I do not believe it is necessary to fix a dog before 1 year as long as you are responsible. I keep her supervised and separated and I have not had a problem nor risk of pregnancy. It is my personal decision. This heat came upon sooner than expected, shortly after arriving in Germany. 

As for Darius, I was specifically told he was house trained AND crate trained (in addition to obedience trained) which is why I was perturbed to discover I paid $1100 for a dog that doesn't fit any of those criteria, or loosely. Turns out he lived in a kennel with rare visits into the house and his obedience training makes my dog look like a superstar. I would have simply purchased a puppy for this price and trained them myself had I known the truth. BUT I do like him and have bonded with him already. Despite the circumstances, I have decided to keep him because this kind of basic training can be knocked in a short month or two for a dog with his intelligence. I have already taught him a few commands and he is learning the rules of the house quickly. 
While I do greatly appreciate your help, I can't help but feel as though you weren't aware of all of the circumstances. Wish me luck on this adventure.

Sara


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

so sorry Sara - I did not even see the fact you had another dog .....but all that would have meant was that was the prime reason to get a male....

6 month old pups are just little wild things....I am pretty sure that not much is really ever done with them if they are being considered for IPO....sit and plaitz maybe....some focus.....he is a nice looking pup and I am sure that after some initial adjusting, you will do well - I know there were 3 or more people between me and the pup....so I really did not know any of the people past my initial contact to you....I do wish you luck with him for sure!!! I am sure that things will be fine....

Lee


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

too bad you didn't ask the breeder to demonstrate the pups obedience .

gsd are not turnkey dogs. 
as one old timer used to say you buy his body but not his soul. His soul he has to give to you.
lousy translation but pretty much what it is.

the gsd is a loyal and discriminating breed . He may in the next few days go looking for a way home - . 

to get that obedience, you the person who has had him mere days, will first have to gain 
his loyalty through bonding , through time.

house trained may mean he doesn't poop in the house . 

he is stable?
he is sociable , and well socialized?


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## Sara L (Mar 14, 2017)

He is 13 months and yes, I did see some of his training on video as well as in person. He doesn't seem to care about "home" and hasn't made any attempt to leave my side. He's already glued to me and prefers me to my wife (which is ideal as the female is "her dog" even though I do all training). I'm sure we won't have any problem and I do like the fact that he isn't going to listen to any stranger he meets that's listing off commands?. He is very well socialized and is good with other dogs but he's a bit jumpy. I don't know if that's just his personality or what but maybe it's all the loud noises here. We often hear cannons etc going off in the distance. 

One thing I do want to know, is if any of you have tips on keeping the house clean? He's one of the messy drinking types and I think he's blowing coat right now. I have been brushing him and sweeping the house as well as put a towel under his bowls. 

I really like the quote you shared. It's a perfect description


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

A common nickname for the breed is German "shedders" 

I have a sweeper attachment that I used to groom one dog with - she loved it....others not so much.....

Glad you like him! I thought you were getting a 6 month old actually - I was out of the loop pretty quickly!


Lee


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

first time i stumbled upon this post. OP you said you were in graf germany. i been there many many times. if it's the same place i'm thinking of there's a huge military training area. i hated that place. are you german, american military or DOD civilian?


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## Sara L (Mar 14, 2017)

I'm married to a service member. There isn't a lot to do here but off base is very nice ? I'll admit that i hated it the first month but I'm finally getting over that. The home made ice cream shop helps!


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