# Threat... or not?



## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Today I was coming back to my car after our lunch walk at a remote dead-end of dirt road trailhead. I noticed a car parked there with the door open as I started to load up my dogs. I have an older easy going mix who was still out of the car when this guy walked over smelling strongly of mary-j and started approaching me saying something about how he parks there a lot to chill and asking a few times if I was leaving or going. He started getting too close for my comfort, so I unloaded my female shepherd and kept her on a close lead. My dog knew what I wanted and gave him a series of warning barks, putting on her best scary dog look. 

That finally made him back off, and he went back to his car, while I loaded up my older guy, keeping my female dog close. 

When he kept approaching my car, and me, it made me very nervous. It is a remote area, and there would have been nobody to hear me yell. Cell phone coverage is spotty. There was nobody else there.

On the other hand, it seemed like he mostly was just a harmless guy who wanted to "pat" my dogs... but maybe not.

I always pay attention to my gut, and it was telling me as he kept approaching to get my female dog out immediately just in case ... but I might never know. 

Sometimes it is nice to have a dog who can bark on command... but who really knows what that guy was thinking? There was another guy sitting in the car, too, so really I would have been easily physically overpowered... 

The whole deal was a bit sketchy, and part of the reason I have a shepherd. They come in handy. 

Or maybe I'm just really unfriendly. 

Alls well that ends well, I suppose.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

Walking up to someone in a remote area to "pet the dogs"...common sense dictates to reasonably intelligent people not to do that. You did the right thing in bringing your dog out, telling him to stay the heck away. Don't second guess your decision. Better safe than sorry. I'd rather someone be mad at me for not letting them pet my dog, then me being dead or injured. It's great that your dog is in sync with you too. Cheers!


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

I think that sounds a little creepy. Hanging around, getting close, asking if you are leaving, and smelling a little drunk...and with another guy nearby in the car...I would have been feeling alarmed too. 

Good job by your girl dog!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

That would have made me twitchy. ALWAYS trust your gut! I taught Sabi to bark, really light up, if I made a Tsst sound and it was for exactly these situations.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I teach self defense both physical and firearms. I co run a large women's training group. So many have come to me after an incident and never wanted to be victimized again. I always ask them about what happened blow by blow because when I am teaching situational awareness I like to have real stories to reflect on (with their permission and without using names or locations/dates). One thing, one condition is universal. I have never heard a tale that didn't involve it- they were ALWAYS uneasy for no reason and wished they had listened to their gut. And they are assault, robbery, rape victims. They felt like they didn't want to be seen as a silly paranoid person. I always try to hammer it home that feeling stupid or hurting someone's feelings is fleeting and doesn't ruin lives. Anyway, a person with good intentions most likely has women/children/siblings whatever that THEY care about and would want to be on guard too, so they will forgive you. You did the right thing. And good girl to your female GSD <3


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Smart decision, good dog!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Good dog! Go with your gut always! It is why they will always be my favorite breed.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

In situations like this I tell people I’m Antarctican and only speak penguinese, they typically leave me alone after that.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Honestly while reading your post my first thought was that the guy was testing how easy or difficult a target you would be and how much of a threat your girl would be. He may not have been there looking for prey but may have been the kind that wouldn't pass on an easy opportunity.

I read your title as "Treat or not " so at the end I was thinking heck yes and very handsomely!!! You've got a good girl.


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## mkculs (Jan 24, 2019)

CometDog said:


> I co run a large women's training group.


Do you also run groups for more petite women? Haha; just being silly. 

Dogs are an awesome deterrent to crime of many different types. I'm so glad you trusted your gut. 

Never be afraid to make a scene--I taught my daughter AND my sons that lesson. And having big, barky dogs adds to one's safety.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

this is one reason we have GSDs. I like to take long walks and having a strong dog your side makes you a harder target. Most "bad guys" want to find an easy mark. There is something primal that makes people step away from a barking dog. I say you did rightly.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

The female urge to be nice to everyone makes women charming but it also makes them victims. No one is obligated to be nice to a stranger who is intruding on their personal space. Trust your gut.

Not just my opinion. Check out Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear. Best thing I've ever read about this. Becker would love the OP's dog.

Some years ago, a lady I know was walking her SchH 3 GSD in a forest preserve when a creepy looking guy came skulking toward her. She told him to back off. He kept coming. She told her GSD to put the guy in a bark and hold, which the dog did. The guy froze, and after a minute she called the dog off and told the guy he could go. He did, in a hurry. Several months later she picked up the paper and saw a photo of the guy--who was violently mentally ill and had just been arrested for murdering a woman.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

mkculs said:


> Do you also run groups for more petite women? Haha; just being silly.


You made a dad joke!! lol


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Thanks, I totally agree. I try to listen to my gut, rude or not! And always better to be on the safe side. 

My girl is pretty awesome. She's friendly or aloof with people in general, but when I want her on- she's on and she looks quite intimidating. It was just a sketchy situation, and when he just kept coming, past my big friendly goof of a boy-dog, I knew it was time to get my other dog out of the car. 

It was interesting to see the obvious breed differences, too. My male dog doesn't have an ounce of protective behavior in his DNA, while the balance in my shepherd is amazing. Kind of cool to see that play out.

I have been meaning to read the "Gift of Fear" I've heard it recommended a few times. The idea of listening to my gut was in my mind during this whole thing- I didn't want to have regrets (or not be able to have any). Stuff happens in the woods and people do disappear. And while I love nothing more than a trail run with my dogs, there is a reason I have shepherds.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Saco said:


> Thanks, I totally agree. I try to listen to my gut, rude or not! And always better to be on the safe side.
> 
> My girl is pretty awesome. She's friendly or aloof with people in general, but when I want her on- she's on and she looks quite intimidating. It was just a sketchy situation, and when he just kept coming, past my big friendly goof of a boy-dog, I knew it was time to get my other dog out of the car.
> 
> ...


We taught the behavior and then put a cue to it with Sabi. I chose that noise because it's quiet and I have to say it was one of the more useful tricks I have ever taught! She was a PPD but there were occasions that I just wanted her to make lots of big scary dog noise, and that's what I used it for.
I don't need to teach Shadow anything, lol. The only thing she resource guards is me! And while she will meet people, she is really pretty vocal about strangers stepping in on me unless I control it before she starts.
Two things stop most men in their tracks. Head up, shoulders back and direct eye contact. People who look like victims become victims.
Use your words. A firm BACK UP usually does the trick. If you need to be polite add please. Maintain your space. 

I seldom let people within arms reach, and I always trust my gut. But in reading your story one thing caught my attention, you moved away. Try to avoid that. It instantly gives the person approaching psychological control. If that person is a predator you can seal your fate simply by backing up. If you have to move to maintain distance step sideways or angle your body, but avoid backing up.

Keep your girl close. She did a good job!


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

I don't care what that man's intentions were, you did not feel comfortable in that situation. Your dog knew it and stuck up for you. Very good girl! 


I can only hope one of mine will do the same if that happens to me.


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

I do a lot of rather remote hiking with another female friend, and I never go without my Dobie gsd. I always feel safe with him. 

I also carry a .40 because you just never know. I totally sympathize with how you were feeling, being approached by some creeper but chances are he just wanted some privacy to light up a doobie with his buddy. Still. Trust your gut!


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Atomic- Yes, most likely, he was probably hoping I was leaving... but he got way too close. 

And Sabi- good point on not backing away. I should know better since I understand how dogs work, and we work the same way if it runs we chase, and if we stand our ground or walk toward, (it, they) backs off. I should keep that in mind. 

It's been good thinking this through and planning how I might handle it differently if something similar happens again. But I'm really happy that my dog, for her part, behaved perfectly.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

I guess it's just my male brain, but I cannot figure out why so many women feel the need to be polite to strangers who are pushing unwanted attention on them, and make excuses for these creeps:

"it seemed like he mostly was just a harmless guy who wanted to "pat" my dogs... but maybe not." 

"Yes, most likely, he was probably hoping I was leaving"

"A firm BACK UP usually does the trick. *If you need to be polite add please.*" [That blows the whole thing and solidly establishes you as a weak potential victim.]

Heartandsoul, you totally get it:

"while reading your post my first thought was that the guy was testing how easy or difficult a target you would be and how much of a threat your girl would be. He may not have been there looking for prey but may have been the kind that wouldn't pass on an easy opportunity."

That is exactly what de Becker says in his Gift of Fear book.

Please, please, ladies, if you feel obligated to be nice to strangers who are pushing unwanted attention on you and make excuses for these creeps, read The Gift of Fear. It could save you from being brutally assaulted or killed. And keep your GSD with you whenever you can. Your GSD likely *will* trust his gut.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

JonRob said:


> I guess it's just my male brain, but I cannot figure out why so many women feel the need to be polite to strangers who are pushing unwanted attention on them, and make excuses for these creeps:
> 
> "it seemed like he mostly was just a harmless guy who wanted to "pat" my dogs... but maybe not."
> 
> ...


I made a great living trusting both my dog and my gut for a couple of decades. Trust me I am no victim.

On the addition of please, I'm Canadian and we are always polite. Good manners never make you a victim.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> Good manners never make you a victim.


Oh, but they do--if good manners means saying "please" or otherwise being polite to a creep who insists on pushing his attention on a woman who is clearly uncomfortable with it.

Predators look for easy victims. A woman who feels obligated to show "good manners" to a creep has solidly established herself as a potential easy victim.

de Becker's Gift of Fear has multiple true stories of women who were brutally assaulted because they felt obligated to show good manners to a pushy creep.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

@JonRob-you are male, encouraging women to read a book written by a male. I do not mean to be unkind and I certainly appreciate your concern and obvious protective instincts, but no man will ever understand how women are forced to live if they are near people. We are trained almost from birth to do a hundred things every day of our lives to protect ourselves. 
No one tells young men to carry keys between their fingers
We never tell boys to park in well lit areas
We do not teach our sons to wear gloves so they can keep their hands out of their pockets
We do not tell boys to stay out of alleys, parks, parkades and empty buildings
No boy is told to get off the elevator if a man gets on
And boys don't traditionally get rape whistles as gifts
If we were impolite to every man who got pushy with us, we would never be polite. And a vast majority of said pushy men truly mean no harm, they are taught to be forceful and aggressive. I had a boss who was fond of forcing himself into my space, with no intent to harm he was just pushy. Every time he did it I wanted to throat punch him, instead I had to smile and say please back up. I have had total strangers trap me against my own truck trying to offer unasked for assistance. Again a smile and a please back up. I actually had a man try and take a box out of my arms because it looked heavy. A lot of men are completely oblivious to the fact that they are making women uncomfortable.

Trust your gut, absolutely. If it feels wrong it is, but it is not always necessary to be rude and often in doing so we lower ourselves.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> @*JonRob*-you are male, encouraging women to read a book written by a male. I do not mean to be unkind and I certainly appreciate your concern and obvious protective instincts, but no man will ever understand how women are forced to live if they are near people. We are trained almost from birth to do a hundred things every day of our lives to protect ourselves.
> No one tells young men to carry keys between their fingers
> We never tell boys to park in well lit areas
> We do not teach our sons to wear gloves so they can keep their hands out of their pockets
> ...


Can't figure out why a woman should disregard de Becker's expertise just because he's male. Why not read his book before you blow him off just because he's a guy? You don't know me, so that's different, but here are de Becker's credentials:

"Gavin de Becker is a three-time presidential appointee whose pioneering work has changed the way our government evaluates threats to our nation's highest officials. His firm advises many of the world's most prominent media figures, corporations, and law enforcement agencies on predicting violence, and it also serves regular citizens who are victims of domestic abuse and stalking."

My girlfriend is female and a lot smarter than I am. Believe me she doesn't waste time worrying about being "rude" to creepy pushy strangers or "lowering herself" by being rude to them. She worries about survival in those situations. She has followed de Becker's advice twice and it has gotten her out of some potentially very bad situations. She couldn't care less about his gender. She cares about the fact that he knows what he's talking about and his methods work. Her "rudeness" and willingness to take the advice of a male expert are the reasons I still have a girlfriend. And BTW she is very polite when it's appropriate.

No one in this thread has been talking about interactions with the boss in the workplace. Yeah, just about everyone has to kiss up to jerks on the job. That has nothing to do with how you respond to a stranger who is pushing unwanted attention on you.

For those who are interested, de Becker also has a great book about protecting your children, which has some startling but excellent advice, called Protecting the Gift. It has one of the most heartbreaking stories I've ever heard in it, about a lady who was shopping at a mall with her bored 9-year-old son. A strange man nicely but persistently kept bugging her about letting him help her out by taking her son to a video arcade. She didn't want to "lower herself" by being "rude." Instead of immediately grabbing her son, shouting, "I don't know you! Get away from me and my son! I am not letting you take my son anywhere!" and finding the nearest security guard, she kept politely conversing with the man, worried about her "good manners" as she politely refused his offers. Then she turned her back for a moment, and when she turned around her son and the man were gone. She caught only a brief glimpse of them before they disappeared into the mall crowd. 

She never saw her son again.

Everyone has to make their own choices, and I have no interest in trying to convince people who don't want to be convinced. But some folks are interested in what a true expert has to say, and maybe it will save the life of someone here (or their kid)--and not necessarily just women. Women are most often the victims, but men get victimized too, and de Becker's advice also works for them.

Last post on this. Ya'll can make up your own minds. I have dogs to train.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

JonRob said:


> The female urge to be nice to everyone makes women charming but it also makes them victims. No one is obligated to be nice to a stranger who is intruding on their personal space. Trust your gut.
> 
> Not just my opinion. Check out Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear. Best thing I've ever read about this. Becker would love the OP's dog.
> 
> Some years ago, a lady I know was walking her SchH 3 GSD in a forest preserve when a creepy looking guy came skulking toward her. She told him to back off. He kept coming. She told her GSD to put the guy in a bark and hold, which the dog did. The guy froze, and after a minute she called the dog off and told the guy he could go. He did, in a hurry. Several months later she picked up the paper and saw a photo of the guy--who was violently mentally ill and had just been arrested for murdering a woman.


I wasn't going to post but this comment changed my mind. I do a lot of hiking in remote areas and as far as I am concerned, I think people are only fooling themselves if they think a barky dog is going to be much of a deterrent when there is nobody else around. IMO, if you don't know for sure that your dog will protect you, and you can't protect yourself, then just maybe that is not somewhere that one should be. There has to be places to go that are less remote and safer. 

I go down to a local seawall. I go to the right from the parking lot if I have milder temperament dogs with me, or I go left into isolation if I have stronger dogs. Just a few weeks ago they found a dead body in the river to the left of the parking lot. 

I know in an ideal world we should be able to go where ever we please, but it just isn't worth one's life.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

This thread makes me think of the book and movie —Lovely Bones, All the Money in the World, Criminal Minds and so many other movies. Talking about politeness also reminds me of the Real estate world. It can be dangerous. I heard some pretty awful stories of agents not listening to inner instincts- still going upstairs or to the basement or in the house to show a potential client ignoring their instincts not to come out again. 

There was a book mentioned on here awhile back- The Gift of Fear that is being discussed here. It is a great book to read for oneself and also to have a discussion with sons and daughters and that they pass the information to their sons and daughters. To ignore your inner voice/instinct will make it one day disappear. Get used to listening to it and abide by it. 

A protective gsd will be unable to do anything if locked in a crate, locked in a car with no access to get out. I had and have two males gsd that will not make a peep just one look will let known their intentions. It will make the cowards think about their own survival and think again. A good mention not all gsd’s will protect you. I think though training a bark and hold will be important then and can be helpful. You do have to make smart choices and know that you are the one that needs to keep oneself safe always regardless if out with your dog or not.


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## lovemyatlas (Feb 19, 2010)

*You Never Know*

You did the right thing for sure. I remember a situation I was in before I had my GSD. I was coming out of a grocery store late at night. I was parked on the side of the store and around the corner of the building came a black man in his twenty's. He said hello as I was getting my grocerys into the car. I said hello back and thats when he lifted his shirt and there was a huge semi automatic tucked in his pants. Yep, he took the gun out and pointed it at me. I froze. I became motionless for whatever reason. That is not my normal behavior, either. He threw me down on the ground with grocery's flying out all over the parking lot. It was abt midnight maybe 1 am. I just sat on the ground and couldn't move. WTH. Then a car pulled up. Six more got out of the car and they all surrounded me with guns pointing at me. I remember hearing them say, "Get her in the car now". And as they were lifting me up off the black top parking lot I heard a voice in the distance. It was a guard. He yelled out, "Is everything ok over there?" And as the 7 men surrounding me hid their guns slightly under their tshirts responded back, "Yes, everythings ok" my mind asked me that same question, "Is everything ok". Immediately I started gaining my inner composure and I responded "NO it's not... get the heck up and run!". And I did... I bolted like a jack rabbit. I hid but not far enough to where I could hear the first guy yelling, where is that bitch... where is that bitch... yada, yada, yada. Whewwwww, was I ever lucky. I have other story's but ya a GSD scares everyone.. .well except a few looney tunes. but my boy.. won't let anyone get close... he's always on guard.. even at 11 years of age. 

I'm glad you're ok and thank God you had your fam with you!!

Always trust your gut.


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