# Trying to re-home my GSD but he is aggressive - what to do



## Michael Valentino

Hello,

I'm new to this Forum. I have a large (115 lb) male GSD who turns 5 y/o next month. He was neutered last summer in hopes that it would calm him. It hasn't.

Ritty is a playful dog. He is wonderful with other dogs and he is good with people in public, especially when he's off the leash.

Inside our home, Ritty displays either fear aggression or territorial aggression, or a combination of things. No one is truly safe in our home because Ritty is always "on edge" even with my son's friends who have been to our house hundreds of times over the years.

I got Ritty from Shewana Shepherds in Harvard, IL. The owner breeds working class dogs. They tend to be large. 

The breeder took my deposit for Ritty when he was 8-10 weeks old. At one point she was going to sell him to nuns living in a convent out west. That fell through and though my wife did not want Ritty I finally got him from the breeder at 16+ weeks.

I immediately took him for walks and let him play with other dogs (in safe situations). As he grew, at 6 months he began playing with an adult chocolate lab. They were great together. 

I took Ritty to obedience training with a well known trainer, Frank Brader. Ritty learned commands quickly.

We found that Ritty was never an affectionate dog. He could not be held and cuddled. Giving him medicine was a major struggle. He always pulled on the leash not matter what type of correction I administered.

Ritty also only saw me as the alpha leader. He did not respect my wife and he always growled at our son, who was 10 when we got Ritty.

I would bring him to soccer practice so my son's teammates could run around with him. Kids had so much fun with him.

But any child who entered our house was unwelcome. As was any adult.

My mother-in-law has not been to our house in over four years.

We tried to introduce Ritty to my daughter's boyfriend. It was going very well. Then when I was not home Ritty lunged at and bit the young man. Ritty did not draw blood but left a bruise on the man's bicep.

Ritty did the same with my other daughter's boyfriend. Things were going great and then Ritty lunged at the man's shoulder when he turned his back on Ritty.

There have been several "close calls" involving kids.

There is a great deal of tension in our home anytime someone visits. If I am not home Ritty has to be put behind a closed door. His hair stands on end and he will not stop barking. If I'm home he will listen to me when I place him in a down/stay position. But he will whimper and whine and inch forward. When a guest leaves Ritty will dash to the front and rear doors anxiously to make sure the unwelcome guest is gone.

Because he has bitten 5 people - never latching on, never breaking skin - all the GSD rescues and other avenues I've reached out to will not accept him. He is considered a risk.

Dog trainers and experts I've talked to the past month have told me to euthanize him.

For many reasons, my wife and I can no longer keep him. Having a large dog in our small home has taken an emotional toll. 

I cannot afford a behavioralist or to have a pro trainer come into our home for a number of sessions.

I've asked one trainer who owns a GSD from the same breeder to take Ritty but like everyone else, he will not.

A local no kill shelter told me they would put him down because they would consider him unable to rehabilitate.

He is a good dog in so many ways. He is just a different animal once he is inside the house. It is immediate family only and no one else.

Did I socialize him wrong? I got him between 16-17 weeks - that is still a very young puppy, isn't it?

Any suggestions on what to do that might save his life?

Thank you,
Michael:help:


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## gsdsar

Have you talked to his breeder? 


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## Athena'sMom

Talk to the breeder and/or a German shepherd rescue. Do not re-home on your own!!!


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## katieliz

Five bites...only one answer here...unpleasant as it is. No use asking if you did anything wrong, that's water under the bridge (but likely not, in a major way, anything you did). I suppose you could talk to the breeder, but they would likely do what you don't want to have to do, and then he would leave for the bridge with strangers...if you love him and want what's best for HIM, you're going to have to be very strong and do the right thing for him. DO NOT, under any circumstances re-home him via craigslist or over the internet, believe me when I tell you there are much worse things than a humane euth out there...sales for experimentation and bait for dog fighters...and this is exactly the kind of dog they're looking for. I'm so sorry, but I don't see any other safe solution.


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## Baillif

Yeah hate to agree with katieliz on this but that might be the responsible thing to do if you absolutely cant keep the dog.


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## LoveEcho

Rehoming a dog like this is, in most scenarios, irresponsible. Most rescues won't take a dog with a bite history, let alone one with multiple bites. I agree sadly that euthenasia is probably the only option if the breeder won't step in.... and, as counter-intuitive as it is, it's really the kindest thing for the dog. Dogs with these kinds of issues are NOT happy dogs. 

No use asking yourself if it's something you did wrong- most likely not. Some dogs just have crappy genetics, and even some well-bred dogs can simply be wired wrong. Short of something crazy out of the ordinary, it's really unlikely you caused this. 

Also, PLEASE don't let him off leash in public...he's proven to be unpredictable and you never know- if he were to surprise you and bite someone, and it comes out that he has a bite history........


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## selzer

I see it a little different. A 5 year old GSD who isn't breaking the skin, is showing a LOT of bite inhibition, actually. I think that with training, this dog could be a good pet for someone, and possibly a working dog, though at 5 years, I don't know if anyone would want to bother training a dog, for a couple of years of service he might have left.

Maybe David Winners can chime in on whether or not he thinks the dog is a lost cause or not, since he deals with some pretty tough dogs.

If I had this dog and a family, I would build a kennel outside, and when there were visitors expected, the dog would be in the kennel. When it is just the family, he would be inside. I would address anything inappropriate to family members, and work with a trainer for that. I would take up biking and that dog would be running a good 5-6 miles a day. 

A 5 year old dog could easily send anyone to a hospital. This dog is communicating. Not attacking. It is not a good way to communicate, and what is driving this, I don't know, but I do not see him as nearly as dangerous as he should be put down because of it. 

Unfortunately, there are not hundreds of homes with people experienced with tough GSDs, looking for another dog. Finding the right spot for your dog will be hard. 

If you find that euthanasia is all you can do, understand that there are worse scenarios out there for your dog than going with you one last trip to the vet. I hope it doesn't come to that, but it does seem that a change in leadership style and management is a must for this dog.


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## Twyla

Also agree with katieliz. 

I have an FA dog who doesn't have a bite history, only because I didn't allow the opportunity for bites. If I am ever in a position I can't keep Woolf, he will be pts, not rehomed. I am not taking the chance of the next owner/family not effectively managing him and bites happen, nor am I going to take the chance on Woolf being abused by anyone.


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## glowingtoadfly

Agree with Seltzer. My girl left bruises from her mouthing.


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## selzer

Definitely talk to the breeder before you put the dog down.


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## katieliz

sue, i can sure definitely see your point of view also. twyla, i have a dog like that and it has been a huge responsibility and an unbelievable time commitment. baillif, the world is surely going to stop turning (not to make light of a very difficult situation).


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## GatorBytes

selzer said:


> *I see it a little different. A 5 year old GSD who isn't breaking the skin, is showing a LOT of bite inhibition, actually*. I think that with training, this dog could be a good pet for someone, and possibly a working dog, though at 5 years, I don't know if anyone would want to bother training a dog, for a couple of years of service he might have left.
> 
> Maybe David Winners can chime in on whether or not he thinks the dog is a lost cause or not, since he deals with some pretty tough dogs.
> 
> If I had this dog and a family, I would build a kennel outside, and when there were visitors expected, the dog would be in the kennel. When it is just the family, he would be inside. I would address anything inappropriate to family members, and work with a trainer for that. I would take up biking and that dog would be running a good 5-6 miles a day.
> 
> A 5 year old dog could easily send anyone to a hospital. *This dog is communicating. Not attacking. It is not a good way to communicate, and what is driving this, I don't know, but I do not see him as nearly as dangerous as he should be put down because of it.
> *
> Unfortunately, there are not hundreds of homes with people experienced with tough GSDs, looking for another dog. Finding the right spot for your dog will be hard.
> 
> If you find that euthanasia is all you can do, understand that there are worse scenarios out there for your dog than going with you one last trip to the vet. I hope it doesn't come to that, but it does seem that a change in leadership style and management is a must for this dog.


 He owns the house, you just pay for it. He sounds good in all other fronts, but he maybe just has too much free reign. 

I remember a small bit in an article that said you must claim what he owns. for example HIS bed...move tell him to move and you sit on it. Never allow him on YOUR furniture or bed. If he is sleeping in front of a doorway or pathway, you don't step over him, you tell him to move (even if you don't have to pass him- training). Whoever he is pushing around is the one to let him out, feed him, water, treat. No interaction by talking to or petting or eye contact for days, maybe even couple weeks...I tried this with my dog for 1/2 an hr...very effective, he was being a complete goof on walks and when I did this upon coming home one day...a couple hrs later still rang true and he was at my side and looking at me...he tried desperately to get my attention during that 1/2 hr...I looked up and away and went about my business. He finally gave up and then so did I lol.


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## volcano

The breeder has over 20 females, ridiculous IMO.


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## Baillif

Dog isn't a lost cause but without professional training i wouldnt try to adopt that dog out without some sort of liability waiver and even then...

I have three dogs in training for the same kind of crap two for rescues trying to adopt them out. They are paying money though. So there is that.


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## selzer

volcano said:


> The breeder has over 20 females, ridiculous IMO.


And she may be able to take the dog back and find a good home for him. 20 females is a lot, but it really depends on who has them. Is she breeding all 20, or are some of them retired, some washed for one reason or another. Doesn't matter really. Some people can take care of multiple dogs, and give them a good life -- better trained, fewer issues than people with just one or two. 

I don't know how that contributes to this thread though.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

Baillif said:


> Dog isn't a lost cause but without professional training i wouldnt try to adopt that dog out without some sort of liability waiver and even then...
> 
> I have three dogs in training for the same kind of crap two for rescues trying to adopt them out. They are paying money though. So there is that.


I agree. This dog COULD be handled and/or managed, by the right person(s). That's the key--the right person. If the OP doesn't know how to handle the situation, has doubts about his ability/experience/knowledge in dealing with this dog, then euth. is probably the best answer.

Until the decision is made, what's wrong with crating him when company comes? It's not solving the problem, but it would certainly keep people safe. Gatorbytes had some good suggestions also.

Susan


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## LifeofRiley

Hi, 

The below trainer has been used by Chicago-area rescues to evaluate dogs that have been labeled aggressive. You may want to consider contacting him for an evaluation of your dog. If your dog passes the evaluation, PM me for contact info of local rescues that _may_ be able to help you (no guarantees). 

Gary Tippett, K9 Guardians in Lockport, IL. 
K-9 Guardians Boarding and Training Center | Chicago | Southwest Suburbs

Contact Us | k9-guardians.com


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## Bob_McBob

volcano said:


> The breeder has over 20 females, ridiculous IMO.


37 breeding dogs and 17 "future breeders"


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## llombardo

selzer said:


> I see it a little different. A 5 year old GSD who isn't breaking the skin, is showing a LOT of bite inhibition, actually. I think that with training, this dog could be a good pet for someone, and possibly a working dog, though at 5 years, I don't know if anyone would want to bother training a dog, for a couple of years of service he might have left.
> 
> Maybe David Winners can chime in on whether or not he thinks the dog is a lost cause or not, since he deals with some pretty tough dogs.
> 
> If I had this dog and a family, I would build a kennel outside, and when there were visitors expected, the dog would be in the kennel. When it is just the family, he would be inside. I would address anything inappropriate to family members, and work with a trainer for that. I would take up biking and that dog would be running a good 5-6 miles a day.
> 
> A 5 year old dog could easily send anyone to a hospital. This dog is communicating. Not attacking. It is not a good way to communicate, and what is driving this, I don't know, but I do not see him as nearly as dangerous as he should be put down because of it.
> 
> Unfortunately, there are not hundreds of homes with people experienced with tough GSDs, looking for another dog. Finding the right spot for your dog will be hard.
> 
> If you find that euthanasia is all you can do, understand that there are worse scenarios out there for your dog than going with you one last trip to the vet. I hope it doesn't come to that, but it does seem that a change in leadership style and management is a must for this dog.


It almost seems as though the dog feels he has to take on the role of leader and protector when the man of the house isn't around ? My first thought when I read this post was how can one consider these bites if skin isn't broken or the dog hasn't latched on? My second thought was that I would consider taking this dog if I didn't have so many already or more then one still in training


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## Sarah~

I guess that depends on your definition of bite, I say bite pretty much any time dogs put teeth on skin. But does it have to break skin to be a serious bite? My roommate was bitten by my APBT mix once because she was afraid of him and he reached behind me to grab at her. She made a sound I've never heard from her before or since and bit hard enough to bruise him, I consider that a bite. More like a warning (a well deserved and provoked warning, there were things that led up to it) than anything else but it was clear she was not playing and did not want to be touched. Even if it didn't break skin the owner seems worried, trainers said put him to sleep, rescues won't take him and the shelter will put him down. After 5 times I guess I can't blame them even if I could, I would be hesitant to take the dog, he does seem like a big risk.


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## Pax8

llombardo said:


> It almost seems as though the dog feels he has to take on the role of leader and protector when the man of the house isn't around ? My first thought when I read this post was how can one consider these bites if skin isn't broken or the dog hasn't latched on? My second thought was that I would consider taking this dog if I didn't have so many already or more then one still in training


That's what I thought too. I would consider taking him too if there was a way to get him down here, but I don't know any services that would transport a large dog with a bite history


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## Michael Valentino

LifeofRiley said:


> Hi,
> 
> The below trainer has been used by Chicago-area rescues to evaluate dogs that have been labeled aggressive. You may want to consider contacting him for an evaluation of your dog. If your dog passes the evaluation, PM me for contact info of local rescues that _may_ be able to help you (no guarantees).
> 
> Gary Tippett, K9 Guardians in Lockport, IL.
> K-9 Guardians Boarding and Training Center | Chicago | Southwest Suburbs
> 
> Contact Us | k9-guardians.com


Thank you. I've placed a call and waiting to hear back, hoping it will be Gary who returns the call. I will PM you if Gary can evaluate Ritty.


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## Michael Valentino

Bob_McBob said:


> 37 breeding dogs and 17 "future breeders"


 
I think the breeder has 20+ females and around 17 males.

I did not know what to make of this, but after seeing a couple of posts on this thread, that seems to be a caution flag.

If I cannot find a rescue to take Ritty I will contact the breeder once more and plead with her to take him back, and allow him to live the rest of his life on her farm with her other dogs.

With acres and acres to roam and plenty of other dogs to play with, Ritty would have a fun life (or so I would imagine).


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## LoveEcho

I hope Gary or the breeder can help you out. Yes, the dog could probably be rehabbed or managed very carefully, but the reality is that that's just not a realistic option for many families.

OP, I'm so sorry you're going through this


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## Michael Valentino

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> I agree. This dog COULD be handled and/or managed, by the right person(s). That's the key--the right person. If the OP doesn't know how to handle the situation, has doubts about his ability/experience/knowledge in dealing with this dog, then euth. is probably the best answer.
> 
> Until the decision is made, what's wrong with crating him when company comes? It's not solving the problem, but it would certainly keep people safe. Gatorbytes had some good suggestions also.
> 
> Susan


Thanks Susan. We either put Ritty in the yard or in a closed room. I do have a crate we can use and maybe he'd feel safer in the crate when people are in the house.

In discussions with the breeder, she has always said that I (mostly; my wife, secondly) do NOT know how to handle our dog. She's always said there is nothing wrong with Ritty, and that any problems with a GSD are because of the owner, not the dog.

If it is fear aggression, why would a dog so big and powerful feel threatened by children in our home? He has lunged at 8 year old boys - once I literally caught Ritty in mid-air by his collar. Another time he lept at a 12 year old boy who stepped back just enough that Ritty left a hole in his shirt in the middle of the chest.

Until we find a solution, I'll crate him.

Does muzzling a dog make it feel that it is untrusted by its owner?


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## LoveEcho

Michael Valentino said:


> Thanks Susan. We either put Ritty in the yard or in a closed room. I do have a crate we can use and maybe he'd feel safer in the crate when people are in the house.
> 
> In discussions with the breeder, she has always said that I (mostly; my wife, secondly) do NOT know how to handle our dog. She's always said there is nothing wrong with Ritty, and that any problems with a GSD are because of the owner, not the dog.
> 
> If it is fear aggression, why would a dog so big and powerful feel threatened by children in our home? He has lunged at 8 year old boys - once I literally caught Ritty in mid-air by his collar. Another time he lept at a 12 year old boy who stepped back just enough that Ritty left a hole in his shirt in the middle of the chest.
> 
> Until we find a solution, I'll crate him.
> 
> Does muzzling a dog make it feel that it is untrusted by its owner?



Your breeder is full of crap and trying to avoid taking responsibility for producing sketchy dogs. I have a dog with severe anxiety issues and it has taken me a long time to accept the fact that that's his genetics- there's nothing I could have done to cause it, or improve it. Please, don't let the breeder make you feel guilty. 


If he likes his crate, crating him would probably go a long way towards helping him feel secure. FA has nothing to do with his size vs. the size of their perceived adversaries but rather being unable to distinguish what is a threat and what is not. Kids can be loud, they look different, smell different, can be unpredictable. A dog who is unstable doesn't really process that the way a fundamentally stable dog does. I think that dogs who are unstable, when they feel forced into a leadership role, react out of fear because it is not a responsibility they are comfortable with- they don't want to be the leader, but they feel they have to be, and suddenly they have to react towards everything.


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## Steve Strom

Hey Michael, if it was me, I would completely disregard anything his 'breeder' is saying. Just think safety, no matter what. I think there's been more going on with him then you realized, biting people is the end result.


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## Baillif

There are other causes for aggression particularly that against a dogs family unit besides fear. A lot of aggression I see here (the majority of it) is operant in nature, meaning the owners/ handlers unintentionally created the issue.

So who can say for sure without evaluating the dog?


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## Lilie

Michael Valentino said:


> If it is fear aggression, why would a dog so big and powerful feel threatened by children in our home?


Fear doesn't have to be the type of fear we would think. Like how I'd react if I suddenly saw a spider crawling towards me. 

Fear in a dog can be more like the dog doesn't know how it's supposed to act. Not sure of what is expected of it. Therefore, it wants the trigger to go away. 

Sometimes, a young pup will bark and behave in a manner that appears to be aggressive. And example would be when another dog appears. But in fact, what the pup is doing is saying, "I have no idea what to expect from this dog. I don't know if it's going to hurt me. I don't know what I'm supposed to do! So I'm going to bark and act as tough as I can so the other dog will go away." 

Fear aggression can be dangerous in an adult dog. Because their reaction is much the same. They want the trigger to go away. Sometimes, instead of just growling and barking, they'll bite as well. 

The theory is to teach the dog what is expected of it when the trigger is recognized. In your case, folks that come to your home. The question is can this be done safely in your home?


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## RebelGSD

I am with selzer on this. GSDs are protective of their homes and people, some more than others. I rescued one who nipped the delivery guy in the butt and barked at people coming to the home. Very well bred dog. The owners had the appointment to have him put down. I took him in and he turned out to be the best dog. I had him for 4 years. Never had aggression issues with him. I think the dogs sometimes sense that the leaders are not strong (or not experienced) and take on the role of family protector.


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## RebelGSD

Well, German Shepherds are a herding breed and they like to keep order, including children with "disorderly" conduct. And he probably does not understand the relationship of your daughters with their boyfriends and does not appreciate strangers handling "his girls".


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## Gwenhwyfair

Selzer did a very good post laying out the options and possibilities IMO. 

Lots of good suggestions already.

All I want to add is I would crate him (make it pleasant if you can, give him treats, don't keep him in too long at first) AND crate him in a room that you can close and even lock the door. Not to be paranoid, just if you're not there you don't want one of these incidents to turn into a serious bite where skin is broken, especially with a child messing with the crate. 

It sounds like you can manage this safely as you get more information and weigh the options. You came to the right place for guidance too.

I'm sorry you are going through this and I hope you find a way that he can live but be safe around people. Please keep us posted.


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## Gwenhwyfair

btw, the kennel looks like a big AKC show kennel. Looks like they are actively showing AKC and have lots of conformation champions. I've seen and been around AKC show kennels that have 18-20 dogs some in co-owner homes.


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