# Therapy Work and Schutzhund



## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

Hello Everyone!

This is my first post, so I hope I am posting in the right place!! I am contemplating adding a German Shepherd to my family. First and foremost, he will be my companion, and I want to utilize him for therapy work (Animal Assisted Therapy), as I am getting my Master's Degree in Social Work. I have also looked into Schutzhund, and am really interested in getting into it, if I decide that a German Shepherd is the right breed for me. My question is would a working German Shepherd be good for Therapy work? Can they do both activities? I really hope to have breeders and those that are involved with A.A.T. and Schutzhunds to weigh in!!

Thanks!!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

It totally depends on the dog. My males sire was a police K9 retired, and then went on to get a therapy dog certification as well as many protection and Schutzhund titles.
Though I'm not sure all programs accept dogs with 'bite training'.


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

Ok, when talking to a breeder, do you know what I should be looking for in a puppy, could you tell me a little about your dog? I was planning on registering with Therapaws of Ann Arbor, MI (I live around that area), and I will definitely ask them what is there policy on that. I was doing research to figure out what breed would be a good match, and it says that German Shepherds are great service dogs and are very versitile. Then I read that there were working lines and show lines, and really didn't know which one therapy fell into.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

It all depends on the dogs. If the dog is of good temperament, biddable and solid nerves, any venue you pursue should be successful. The foundation you place on the pup may play into it as well. 
Have you visited Wildhaus Kennels in Ann Arbor? They produce really nice dogs(WL's) that can do most anything asked. Though they don't breed that often.
My male is from there, I don't know that he'd make a good therapy dog(he doesn't like his feet messed with) but he is very good with everyone, including children and is neutral to other dogs.
If my goal was to have him as a service dog or a therapy dog, I'm sure I could have achieved that with him. He is balanced and higher threshold and a cuddlebug, yet he also has a bit of suspicion due to his genetics.


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

I sent out an email to Wildhaus yesterday, asking her opinion on the matter. From the forums, everyone has wonderful things to say about her. I am willing to wait for the right puppy, so I am in no rush at all, really just want a good fit and stable companion. I definitely have her on my list of breeders to look into. I am also looking to visit a few Schutzhund clubs as well, I hear there is one in Lansing. Like I said, I have read about it, and youtubed it, but haven't seen it in person. Thank you for your post!!


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I have my fingers crossed to get a male pup from Chris' "P" litter due in early May. I don't plan on doing any SchH but do plan on Demo/workshop, Therapy and In-Home Assistance Dog. By the time he is old enough for it, my plans may change to full Assistance (Service) Dog. 

Yes, you will need to check with the Therapy Dog group if they will let you do SchH and belong to their group. 

I'm glad that you mentioned that you are willing to wait for the correct pup to suit your needs. Even once you find the breeder you want to go with it can take awhile, even have evaluations completed on several litters, before the right one comes along. If you tell the breeder up front exactly what you want to do with the pup they can let you know if any of their planned upcoming litters are a possibility to produce the type of pup you will need. It helps to know if they may have a pup for you in a couple of months or if you will probably be waiting for 6 months or a year. In my case I told the breeder that I will be using that for the right pup I will wait for how ever long it takes. 

It can also add to the waiting period if you want only a male or female or are set on a certain color. I only want a male so that is somewhat limiting, but am open to any color which is a plus in a puppy search.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The biggest thing is if the therapy group will accept a dog that has been trained in bite-work. Being certified, and joining a group, usually involves having a sizeable insurance policy against small claims on your dog (things like accidental scratches or your dog bumping someone and accidentally knocking them down). So although 99% of Schutzhund people will tell your their dogs are MORE stable than some random pet out there, the insurance companies could care less about that and a dog that has been trained in that venue = dangerous.


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

ILGHAUS- Yes, I know, I will wait for as long as it takes. My main thing is temperament. I am not very partial when it comes to gender, I've had both in the past, and all have been wonderful. I love the sable color, but I'm fine with black or any other color.
MARTEMCHIC- I plan on contacting them, the only problem is that I cant find a phone number for Therapaws. I guess I will try to explain the situation through email, but I really want to speak with someone in person


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

ken k on this board may be of help. I think he is involved in therapy dog training and is on the east side of the state.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

SD0202 said:


> Ok, when talking to a breeder, do you know what I should be looking for in a puppy, could you tell me a little about your dog? I was planning on registering with Therapaws of Ann Arbor, MI (I live around that area), and I will definitely ask them what is there policy on that. I was doing research to figure out what breed would be a good match, and it says that German Shepherds are great service dogs and are very versitile. Then I read that there were working lines and show lines, and really didn't know which one therapy fell into.


Therapaws is a local organization, you do not need to be a member there or any other local organization to do therapy work, all of Therapaws dogs are tested, insured and registered through Therapy Dogs Incorporated, if you want to Pm me we can chat about Therapy dogs


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Also check to see if the group you are interested in has any regulations about raw-fed dogs. If you were planning to feed raw, something to consider. 

I looked into getting Gryffon into a national therapy dog organization here, no regulations against bite-work training, but they just recently passed a no-raw-fed-dogs rule, so we're out.


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> I looked into getting Gryffon into a national therapy dog organization here, no regulations against bite-work training, but they just recently passed a no-raw-fed-dogs rule, so we're out.


Any idea on their logic behind no raw fed dogs!?!?!


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

Castlemaid- Ohhhh my goodness!!! I have been researching RAW and I really want to do it, all the benefits to the dog really make a difference. I am a big believer that what you feed your dog makes a huge difference on their health and overall well being. In the past we switched from Iams to Blue Buffalo, and it really made a difference in our flat-coated Retriever's (Tori) energy and hair.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

KathrynApril said:


> Any idea on their logic behind no raw fed dogs!?!?!


The argument is that raw-fed dogs carry-around more pathogens, like Salmonella in their saliva, then kibble-fed dogs, and thus put immunosuppressed individuals more at risk. 

Completely unfounded. And not to mention all the kibble recalls over the years for Salmonella and other issues.

I also had to shake my head at the irony - that the organization understands that bite-training a sound dog does not make it vicious or unpredictable, but lacks critical thinking about the safety of raw feeding a dog.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Bite work, what is a preying play, cannot possibly be an obstacle for training a therapy dog. Dogs do behave according to the environment - that is first, and the decoy is not an enemy, but a very special friend of your dog. Though, I have noticed, in order to merge your dog's drive with the environment of the Schutz club and create an-auto-mode for that you should start training your puppy at not later than 3-4 months of age in two different places simultaneously, in socialization classes and in a Schutz club. Before that, just for knowing about something of the earlier age could help, you better check with the breeder, if both drives were developed. You can easily identify what you need by reading this rather simple description:Dr. P's Dog Training: Modal Theory
Raw diet is forbidden for therapy dogs, because of worms. By deworming your dog 3 times a year you cease the risk of being infected with potentially life threatening worms, the majority of worms living in the guts and liver considered not to be dangerous, your dog is reinfected with them only 2 weeks after anyway. But...Not dangerous for a healthy human, all of us have some worms, they don't bother us, especially owing to the fact that many products regulate their number (alchohol, garlic, many herbs, etc). The story is different with a sick person, or underweight person. The helminths, like they know that this lean human organism is very weak and may die, start to muliply in great numbers. Worms can easily bring to death a feeble child. The meat you feed your dog should be cooked. Vitamins, well, you can provide artificial ones, but never feed your dog cooked bones. Calcium changes its structure, becomes rigid, and cooked bones cannot be digested. Admix pumpkin for guts, and clean teeth with a brush.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

My local org will not allow RAW or bite trained dogs. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

Therapy Dogs Incorporated , allows "raw" and Schutzhund trained dogs


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## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

Odin is registered through TDI (Therapy Dogs International) and when we were tested I was upfront about his bite work training. The evaluator was perhaps a little more thorough with her assessment, but overall we had no issues. Like some have said it really depends on the dog.


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

Yah that is why I definitely wanted to clarification if it was a good idea to go for both activities. I will definitely be upfront with the tester, I just want to make sure that it is safe for my dog, my "potential" clients, and everyone involved. I also don't want any legal issues on top of that. I just want to help people, and I want my dog to have fun and have a job.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

A lot of organizations will not allow a dog trained in protection or bitework.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

You don't have to work with a group to do therapy. I do it on my own without a group. All they(nursing home)requested was the certificate and proof of rabies.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I do therapy work, personally I wouldnt use an IPO dog for the work.


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

llombardo- after reading and speaking with some individuals that do therapy(and contacting the agencies), I think I will do it individually, instead of registering with a community agency. Honestly, I have been reconsidering doing it. So lots to think about


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

SD0202 said:


> llombardo- after reading and speaking with some individuals that do therapy(and contacting the agencies), I think I will do it individually, instead of registering with a community agency. Honestly, I have been reconsidering doing it. So lots to think about



If you go out on your own make sure you have very good liability insurance. You can be sued if your scratches, nips or even if someone falls over your dog. This reason is why some like to reg. with a large organization since the big ones have insurance for their teams from $1M and up.


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## SD0202 (Mar 8, 2014)

ILGHAUS- I am sorry, I should've been more clear, I was first thinking of registering with both Therapy Dogs, Inc. and Therapaws (A michigan agency), however, I think it would be more suitable for me just to do Therapy Dogs, Inc. and just set up appts. by myself, instead of with the assistance of Therapaws


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