# What to do?



## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

Last week a couple showed up at my doorstep with a approximately 6 mos old GSD male. They asked that my wife and I take the dog because they had no place to live and they knew we have a GSD. They said that if we could not keep him we could find someone to give him to or find a police department who wanted to train him. (I am a local police officer)
We took the pup and he bonded instantly with our 2 year male and us. He was kept outside on a tie out with occasional walks and was fed cheep food. We can tell that he has been hit for discipline. We have a vet appt in two days for him for a check up. The couple had never taken him. He had a large collar on that was tied into two knots to make it smaller. Long story short, the couple showed up again last night and said that they would be getting a house or living on a farm and would like him back. My wife gave them a sermon on the German shepherd and proper care but did not say no. What should we do? I think he was malnourished, abused, and is now thriving. I want to tell them no!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I'd tell them no. They GAVE you this dog. They didn't ask you to take care of him for a while.

Course it's a sticky situation which I'm sure you know as a LEO. Do they have proof the dog belongs to them?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Then tell them NO if you are within your legal rights.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Thats so horrible....cant you just say no???


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

I agree with SunCzarina. They gave you the dog and on top of that you have evidence the dog was abused and not being properly cared for. I could not ever give a dog back in that case. Let them call a lawyer or take me to court. Dog stays w/me. Of course I'd be terrified they'd try to steal it back, but if that were to happen you KNOW who's got the dog, then you can attempt to get them charged w/theft. Let a judge decide, get proof of the abuse, photos, vet report whatever.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Difficult situation.

Did they sign anything when they gave you the dog? I'm guessing that they know you are a police officer. This will probably rule out any claims that you stole the dog from them.

One week only, and they want the dog back. Maybe they found a buyer!

If the dog has never been to a vet, the bills are going to be huge! I'd be inclined to keep the dog, as this was your first reaction and you accepted him.


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

Iam definitely leaning towards no and let them take me to court. They have no business with any dog let alone a GSD! It just makes me so angry to think about it!


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

If they didn't take him to the vet, and you did, you have a vested intrest in the animal. It may sound harsh, and not sure how it is where you live, but in Alabama pets are considered livestock. Whoever has the higher monetary intrest in the animal is the owner--plus you have a paper trail of caring for the animal as they do not. 

Double check your state's livestock ownership laws...that's where this would fall in my state.


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## Ketra (Jun 23, 2006)

No way I would give the dog back. I'd say your chances are good, since you've taken the dog into the vet and invested money into him.

Thats assuming the people will even fight you for ownership of the dog.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Good for you Gohawks! I'm glad you guys are sticking up for this puppy. 
Those people have no business trying to raise a puppy if there is evidence of neglect. Plus, they gave him to you. Now they want him back so the poor little guy has to be beat again?


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

Possesion is nine tenths of the law (my dad used to always say that). As far as I would be concerned, the dog is yours. They didn't know they were moving to a farm before? I wouldn't believe anything they told me. Sounds like your pack just grew by one.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

Tell them no, take him to the vet, get him microchipped to your name.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Heck No!! 

if they come back just say no! No proof the dog was theirs and to bad shame on them for abusing the baby and you will press charges 
not to mention there is a bond with your dog and he will be heartbroken.


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## 2Dogs (Sep 26, 2009)

If you are, as you say, a police officer in the community you reside, then I think you know the answer. You need to educate, and return the animal to the owners. As a friend you should follow up and offer any emotional or monetary support of the animal that it may need. You are held to a higher standard.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Why would he return the animal to someone who gave her up and neglected her? There is also evidence of physical abuse and he's never been to the vet. There is simply too much to teach and I don't see why it should be his responsibility to teach an ignorant couple how to raise the puppy. 
I also don't see how it's fair for him and his family and the PUP to rehome her yet again. She's thriving in her current state and if her original owners truly cared for her they would see that. But, they don't, they just want their cute little GSD back. 
She's bonded to the GSD in the home and the people and everyone has bonded to her. 

I would never give her up.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't agree with that at all. First, no where in the post does it say they are friends with the people. Second, the dog was neglected when it was dropped off at his house. Does a police officer have the higher standard of returning a dog, that was handed over to him, back to a neglectful situation.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Oh, and not to mention the couple doesn't even KNOW for sure where they are going to be living. 



> Quote: Long story short, the couple showed up again last night and said that they would be getting a house or living on a farm and would like him back.


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## brogers93 (Aug 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: 2dogsIf you are, as you say, a police officer in the community you reside, then I think you know the answer. You need to educate, and return the animal to the owners. As a friend you should follow up and offer any emotional or monetary support of the animal that it may need. You are held to a higher standard.


What???!!!


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## MrMacleod (Jan 15, 2007)

I don't know what state you are in, but it sounds like a civil issue. It's basically abandoned property. If you think he was abused, neglected etc. and you are the better option for the poor guy keep him. Let them take you to court. 

Like you would on the streets, document everything. Take pictures of the collar, of his condition. Take video of him cowering away from a fist or hand. Save your vet bills, show proof that he was malnourished and uncared for, and you should be fine.

Or give him to a buddy, and then tell the old owners he ran away. lol.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

NO. PLEASE. NO. PLEASE. NO, NO, NO. PLEASE do not give this puppy back.

please protect the puppy. no matter what. please. 

THANK YOU for helping this baby.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

This is your pup now, they gave it to you - period. I doubt they have enough in them to fight for the pup. As insurance, I'd recommend you getting it to the vet ASAP rather than in 2 days, just so you have something in the record that you are caring for the pup. And take "now" pics, showing how neglected the pup was until you took it in. No way would I relinquish that pup. Good luck with your new baby!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

there is no way I'd return the dog. 

IF they had taken good care of him I would most likely try to help them keep him. (maybe)

If you want to keep him, and he sounds like a keeper),,I would say sorry. Unfortunately tho, they may just go out and get another one ((


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## themurphyz (Oct 7, 2009)

Try to reason with the people when they come back to collect their dog. Sit them down and have a good chat with them. GSDs need training ($$), good food ($$) and vet care ($$$$). Not to mention exercise and tons of attention which you can't assign a monetary value to. Assure them that you are able to handle these responsibilities. If they can honestly answer that they will be better owners to this dog than you, after you've had your talk - then maybe consider giving the dog back. I'm pretty sure their answer will be 'no'.


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

2dogs, I am a police officer and I know it is a civil issue only. The only possible criminal case would be neglect on the original owners part. Even we have a hard time proving neglect in the courts these days though. Maybe the original owners should have contacted me prior to owning the pup to educate themselves about the GSD breed. I don't think it's my responsibility now that the dog was given up. I do appreciate all opinions and that is why I posted. I know the law I just wanted to get other GSD owners opinions on how to approach this as it is a sticky situation. You are right I am held to a higher standard, but should I be? I think I have the same rights as others.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

they gave the dog to you. it is your dog now. it seems unlikely that they would go through the trouble of trying to get him back through the civil courts


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## lauramichelle (Mar 11, 2009)

I would keep him. They gave the dog to you to either keep or give away. What if you had already given him to someone else? They didnt say, "hey can you keep my dog for awhile until I get a house".

If they are bad enough off to not care for the dog and to have no place to live...I doubt they have money to take you to court over it. Like othere said...in my state its vested interest and posession that would govern here anyways.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

While at the vets I'd also tell him the situation...or that you think he came from an abused home and see if they can help document any mistreatment...malnourishment, disease, etc.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

jmho.

this is not about their rights or your rights but about the right thing to do and that is what's best for the puppy, who has NO VOICE when it comes to the right to be taken care of and protected.

you must speak for the puppy.

thank you.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

The rest of this poor baby's life is in your hands. Fight for him!! I wouldn't let them touch him ever again... If they come back start it in a civil manner. Let them know you've bonded to him, you've had him chipped (get that done! LOL), you've had him brought UTD and health checked, your other dog is attached, and you love him. If they refuse then go ahead and let them know THEY came to YOU in YOUR home and got you to take him. You agreed, he is YOURS.

Go to court if you must... I don't think any judge would turn you down.


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## Lola1969 (Mar 6, 2007)

O geez, you have this puppy for a reason! He needs you! 

By the way, I did a ride along recently with my police department and saw first hand everything you all have to deal with on a daily basis. Thank you so much for your service and keeping us safe!


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

I think the reason they would ask for the puppy back in such a way, is because to them he's just another possession.
I'm sure they mistakenly assumed that your GSD was nothing to you as their puppy is nothing to them. 

I'm glad they are wrong and really hope you keep the puppy. I think he needs you too.


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## Technostorm (May 24, 2009)

I don't mean to sound too religious about all this, but someone UP ABOVE is watching and probably directed this little poor beaten up fellow into your arms. It is a test of judgement on both you and the previous owners. Indeed you are held on a higher standard being your profession designated as such. But, you also deserves the rights to be equal and treated fairly and commonly. 

You need to established your stance if you so believed that the pup was abused by them and neglected prior to residing with you. Then, you need to reason with the previous owners why you have chosen to provide the pup with "Better" care. 

But ultimately, you as a professional law enforcement officer should excercise gut instinct and trust your judgement whether to return this dog or not to the previously owner who have neglected the dog. Think "in the best interest of..".. 

Good luck and God Bless...


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

sorry i don't think you need to reason with anybody or explain to anybody or educate anybody. 

just don't open the door.

and thank you again for protecting this puppy.


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

What is *right* and what is *legal* are two different things.

If you want to keep it, be prepared to utilize a lawyer.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

First, unless you seen them hit the dog , you dont know that it had been. Dogs can, and do, shy away as if they've been hit even when they havent cause of shoddy nerves.

I would sit down and try and talk with them some more, reason with them and see if they are willing to 'improve' on care for their dog, offer to teach them and help them. Cause chances are, if it goes to court they have a good chance of getting the dog back.

Its iffy as it depends on the laws in your area, the amount of time something has to be in your possession before you 'own' it, and how the judge wants to read the law.

The only thing you really have is that they just dropped the dog off with you, and 'maybe' vet records. If they have papers, or can get papers that prove they bought the dog, then its possible the judge will just make them pay you back. I don't know. (ifs its to high for them to pay at one, they can do a payment plan or have a certain amount of time to come up with it)

Cheep food is not a crime and has nothing to do with anything, having the dog on a chain outside may not either if its not illegal in your area.

at this point, its not about whats right but whats legal. At this point it doesnt sound like you have much to go on, but that could change, who knows.

Like I said, try talking to them some more, they may end up thinking the dog is better off with you.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

If they don't even have a home, I doubt they can afford to pay for any legal action. Jmo.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

denali ditto.


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## Metalsmith (Mar 25, 2009)

Thank you for taking care of this puppy. He deserves a good, loving home like yours. 

His previous owners were not able to care for him that well, it seems. Maybe they could, in time, be responsible and caring owners with some education. However, _I_ wouldn't feel comfortable risking this puppy on that chance. I hope you decide to keep him!


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## 3dogcrew (Apr 23, 2006)

Our beloved Marcey was a shepherd mix that was running the neighborhood, skinny, fleas, spay incision infected, full of worms. She always ended up at our door, we took her in, fed her, even brought her to the vets. My husband went to the folks to let them know she was at our house quite a bit of the time and we would like to include her in our family. The answer we got was"NO, I can't give her away, my kids love her"...... by now she had been at our house for almost 2 weeks, they never came looking for her. So, my husband came back home, told me what happened, I handed him a $100.00 bill, he went back to the man, handed him the $100.00 bill and came home with a bill of sale !!!!
Long story short...... if you want to help this pup and do what is right and legal, offer them money, see what happens and if they take your money, get a bill of sale.
Good luck and thank you for caring.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

If they show up again I would give them a bill for the dog's food, board, and vetting. That might be a quick way to get rid of them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree with GSDolch, unless they told you, and some people are pretty stupid and will tell you, you have NO way of knowing the dog has been abused. 

If the dog is getting over it with your family now, it still does not MEAN anything, the dog was scared at first and is getting used to you. 

If it is not getting over it with your family, it STILL does not mean anything. The dog could be poorly socialized or have weak nerves. 

That does not constitute neglect or abuse. 

So the dog was malnourished in your opinion. What does your vet say? How many pounds underweight is the pup? Or is it just because the dog is being fed Ole Roy or something like that? Young shepherds are often thin. Scroll down and look at how many people are worried about their skinny dogs. 

They kept the dog on a tie out in the back. I find this interesting. People with a dog on a tieout will often drop the dog at the pound when they cannot care for it. They looked for someone with a shepherd, who knew what to do with one. And they want it back. Maybe they want it back because they found someone to buy it. I doubt this. Most people want to see a dog before agreeing to purchasing it. I think they want it back because they cared about it. 

I think you need to dig down deep inside you with an open mind and decide whether this pup was really abused and neglected and whether these people will do right by the dog. 

What I am hearing is a young couple who have fallen on some hard times and had to move and found it incredibly difficult to find anyplace where they could keep the dog. They begged you to take care of the dog, or find it a home, or make a police dog out of it. For me that would be heart-wrenching. 

A week later they found someplace where the dog could stay too. They asked for it back. 

I think that a lot of the times people are geared to look for the worst in people. Maybe, because of the nature of the job, police officers are like this to a point -- what are they up to, what are they trying to hide, etc. Maybe it is not like that. Maybe these are people doing the best they can. 

The next thing is to decide as if these are people with good intentions and who had done right by the dog all along and were trying to do right by him, what would you do? 

I think that your people land somewhere between perfect animal lovers/pet owners and henous villians. 

I think it is disgusting advice to let them take you to court. We all know these people probably do not have money to retain a lawyer if a lawyer would touch it. Keeping the dog because they really have no way of getting it from you is not a good reason.

Keeping the dog because you truly believe the people were not providing for its basic needs and it is at risk if given back to them is a better reason. At the same time, you have to judge the people, whether they are capable and sincere. 

I would as someone sugggested, have them over and explain the costs and suggest or offer that you keep the dog, or ask them how they plan to pay for the dog. Try to keep an open mind and then make your decision with regards to how you feel they will manage the dog.

Or, if you are a Christian or some other faith, pray on it. Come to peace about it. Try to determine what is best for everyone (humans and canines) involved. If something inside you is saying that you should really give these people their dog back, than maybe you should. NONE of us here on this site KNOW these people and what was their situation.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

well they'd have to take ME to court. 

tho offering to purchase the puppy seems fair.


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## k950ECHO (Oct 15, 2009)

GoHawks 7,

Since your a local police officer, you could use your weight with animal cruelty/abuse/neglect. 
Tell them they owe you for boarding, training, Vet and food bill. Say no they Gave you the puppy. a Judge would be crazy to give an order to return the dog with out some sort of payment. 
Also becareful about leaving him or your other dog out without supervision. Harassment, may come forth, may get ugly to even getting an order of protection from these people . Get him registered and a Microchip in case they try "lift" him or your other dog.
I know payment isnt the concern, its the dog and treat ment and care . Over step the wife. say NO !!! 1 time is coincidence , 2 times a habit. if they do it once, they'll do it again or have done it before. Put your foot down. Dont do it. a puppy is like a child. need TLC, love, teachings, needs a warm safe place and positive training. Dig deep in your heart and search. DO you think that would be best ? really ?
Do the right thing. Think what best for the puppy. Keep us posted.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: 2dogsYou are held to a higher standard.


Ya know, he didn't ask his question as a cop, he asked it as a human being who cares about animals and just happens to be a cop. This crap about cops being held to a higher standard really fries my cork sometimes. When do they just get to be human like you and me and do what they feel is right in their heart?

Those comments fall along the lines of crabby people calling city or county workers and complaining and using that old "My taxes pay your salary" line of bull----. Guess what, your taxes maybe contribut one nickle to each cops salary for the year in your area. 

Did you miss the part about the pup having been abused, neglected and all that? Why would you opt to give an innocent victim back to it's abusers? Why are you sticking up for the abusers? Why would you expect he should give money to these people, would YOU?


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Smith3What is *right* and what is *legal* are two different things.
> 
> If you want to keep it, be prepared to utilize a lawyer.


I know there are some pretty nutzy people in this world and it's pretty sad to think that when someone gives you a gift that one should have to worry about going to court to keep that gift.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: 2dogsYou are held to a higher standard.
> ...


Cops never get to be "just human". Everything a cop does is measure and watched b/c he/she IS a cop. We are expected to live and work at a higher standard than Joe citizen. It comes with the job and being a "civil servant."


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

Thank you to everyone for their thoughts and opinions in this matter. I have gained some insight on this situation that I wouldn't have without this forum's help. Like someone said, I was not posting this as a cop, but as a human being and a responsible owner of a GSD. I think I will take some of the ideas posted here and see where it takes me. I definitely don't want to use my status to threaten charges. But I do however have the financial backing to stand firm. I can only pray about it and what comes my way, comes my way. God bless! And thanks to all for great reads and information on the best breed ever!


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## Lola1969 (Mar 6, 2007)

Good luck to you and please let us know how things turn out!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Good luck. While you don't want to use your position to press charges, I can't see how it would hurt to be in uniform when you speak to these people. 

Personally, I think if you tell them to repay you for the dog's expenses while in your care (food, vetting) then they'll go away. What's unfortunate is they'll probably go get another dog.


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## MrMacleod (Jan 15, 2007)

No. Leave your uniform in your locker where it belongs. The last thing you need is for the couple to report something to IAD that you said or did anything under the color of authority. 

If your department is like mine, they will take the word of the citizen over yours. Then you will way bigger headaches than a dog.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaGood luck. While you don't want to use your position to press charges, I can't see how it would hurt to be in uniform when you speak to these people.
> 
> Personally, I think if you tell them to repay you for the dog's expenses while in your care (food, vetting) then they'll go away. What's unfortunate is they'll probably go get another dog.










Now that's talking fair.


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: MrMacleodNo. Leave your uniform in your locker where it belongs. The last thing you need is for the couple to report something to IAD that you said or did anything under the color of authority.
> 
> If your department is like mine, they will take the word of the citizen over yours. Then you will way bigger headaches than a dog.


You hit the nail on the head with that one! I will report after the vet visit tomorrow!


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## 2Dogs (Sep 26, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: 2dogsYou are held to a higher standard.


<span style="color: #FF6666">Ya know, he didn't ask his question as a cop, he asked it as a human being who cares about animals and just happens to be a cop. </span>
Actually he did.
<span style="color: #FF0000">This crap about cops being held to a higher standard really fries my cork sometimes. When do they just get to be human like you and me and do what they feel is right in their heart?</span>
He knows what I am talking about

<span style="color: #FF0000">Those comments fall along the lines of crabby people calling city or county workers and complaining and using that old "My taxes pay your salary" line of bull----. Guess what, your taxes maybe contribut one nickle to each cops salary for the year in your area.</span> 
What? Where did this come from?

<span style="color: #FF0000">Did you miss the part about the pup having been abused, neglected and all that? Why would you opt to give an innocent victim back to it's abusers? Why are you sticking up for the abusers? Why would you expect he should give money to these people, would YOU</span>?

I didn't really think the dog was terribly abused. Walmart food, tied out, I don't see the neglect there. What I see is choice. I commend the couple for trying to find help. Not that it is any of your concern, but yes I would give them money. Thank you for replying to my comments to the original poster, I am not sure to what end. Happy Halloween, don't forget to turn off your lights and pretend you are not home.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: MrMacleodNo. Leave your uniform in your locker where it belongs. The last thing you need is for the couple to report something to IAD that you said or did anything under the color of authority.
> 
> If your department is like mine, they will take the word of the citizen over yours. Then you will way bigger headaches than a dog.


TOTALLY agree! Don't put your job in jeopardy or open yourself up for a hard time on this. You didn't post as a cop, so continue this as the animal lover and caring responsible human being. And yes, please do let us know what happens!


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

Good news, vet check was good! Shots, heartworm preventative, and frontline plus! A little skinny but that will change. Thanks


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

also, bear in mind that the people who dropped off the dog could go to your bosses and/or court and tell an entirely different story. it would be small claims court, here that is $25 to file. 

more than likely, they would get the dog back, just have to reimburse you for the vet bill. Im sure that their story there would be that they had asked you to watch him TEMPORARILY and you agreed, but now refuse to give him back


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

By the way after 9 days and the bonding they can't afford it. Vet bill, boarding, Orijen regional red, Green tripe supplement, Yogurt, Cottage cheese, and a whole Lotta love! Bring it on in small claims I will eat them for lunch! He is not going back, bottom line. I have taken the suggestions from the board and I have my stance! If it costs me my 16 year job so be it! I am a GSD lover and that is that! Unconditional love is what a GSD gives back and I will fight for him as my family!


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

Congratulations on your new addition! We'd love to see some pictures of him!


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Have they been back since their first request for you to give him back?


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)




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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

For some reason, the picture didn't show up, but I looked at the link and wanted to say that he is a gorgeous boy!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

he is gorgeous! and looks like he is gonna enjoy the pool too!!!
good luck with him , he is a lucky boy)


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

He loves the pool! No they have not been back!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Oh he is a cute one. No way I would be giving him back, look at him he's gorgeous. Looks like my husband's dog Gideon. I'm glad those people haven't been back!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

wow...oh wow...what a handsome guy!!


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

His best buddy Rugyr!


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## Metalsmith (Mar 25, 2009)

They are both so handsome! I'm so glad your new guy is going to be staying. He deserves a wonderful owner like you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, I am not glad or proud of what this board encouraged on this.

When what people KNOW to be the right thing is the same as what they WANT to be the right thing, they do not need a bunch of strangers on the internet to egg them on, they just do it because it is the right thing. 

If you had to ask, then something down deep was telling you what was right. 

So that is your starved, abused, neglected puppy??? 

I am sorry, but if those people abused the dog, starved the dog, or did not care about the dog, they would not have found a place to live where they could have the dog and they would have NEVER asked for it back. In fact, they would have dumped the dog, in a pound, or on the road, or would have left him on the chain for the new owners to deal with. 

This pup assimilated to your family and the vet visit and all amazingly well and quickly for a dog that spent its whole existance out back on a chain. 

I do not believe this. Does anyone on this site KNOW what it is like to ask something of a stranger? How hard that is? 

So much for cops going into the field because they want to help people. 

Congradulations on acquiring a purebred shepherd for the cost of vetting. I think you ought to be proud of that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Oh, and whenever he acts up, be sure to blame it on the fact that he is a "rescue." That makes people respect you for rescuing and gives allowances for bad behavior with a sweet little saying.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What is your problem with police officers?


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Wow, Selzer, your reply was fairly harsh. People come to this forum all the time for feedback, including you. I think this is the only time I have seen someone define it in the way you just did. 

What does the OP being a cop have to do with anything? 
Sheilah


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It does not. But it has been mentioned through this whole thread and he identified himself as one. 

I think police officers should be treated as anyone else, not expected to be better or worse. Not believed because they are. They can lie or embellish the truth as easily as anyone. 

For example, I asked how many pounds underweight -- never answered. The pup does not LOOK underweight, if anything it looks overweight. Of course I cannot FEEL a photo. 

If this guy was a preacher or a janitor or a school teacher, I would have told him the same thing. Those people did NOT abandon their dog, and they DID care about their dog. I doubt if they abused it, and sure doesn't appear to be starved. 

Getting advice on a site is one thing. This is a yes/no question. We ask what to do when what we WANT is not what we Believe is Right. Then everyone on here jumps on the band wagon so we feel really good about it. If he was so sure that this was the right thing to do, he would have just done it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> 
> For example, I asked how many pounds underweight -- never answered.


First of all, you did NOT ask that! Second you posted an hour ago. Perhaps the guy is not online to defend himself against your dripping disdain for all of us that encouraged him to keep the puppy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

> Quote:


So the dog was malnourished in your opinion. What does your vet say? How many pounds underweight is the pup? Or is it just because the dog is being fed Ole Roy or something like that? Young shepherds are often thin. Scroll down and look at how many people are worried about their skinny dogs. 


> Quote:


Yes I did. I asked days ago.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I really more upset with the people on the thread than the OP. We should be careful. When a person says something, we need to look deeper than just "Save the puppy" "Don't give it back."

All that guy had to say was "chained" and everyone was an instant fan. 

There was certainly no inbedded chain on this pup. In fact, his coat is not got the collar marks of a dog that his been long chained. 

The guy looks like us, he feeds good food, is concerned about the vet, doesn't like chains, and thinks the dog has been disciplined by hitting. 

Those of us who tried to ask questions and dig deeper were thoroughly ignored. BECAUSE HE WANTED TO KEEP THE DOG. 

He was on here trying to justify his position. I think we should be more responsible and not just jump on the band wagon. 

That is an opinion.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

How do you even know the dog was hit? Thats a huge assumption
Because it layed down when approached?
I know alot of dogs like that.
My dog does the same when I say his name in a mean tone. He KNOWS hes going inside.
I dont think you should have kept the dog just beacause you THOUGHT it was being hurt.
I would have checked and made sure that was the case.
Well guess hes yours now.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: selzer Those people did NOT abandon their dog, and they DID care about their dog. I doubt if they abused it, and sure doesn't appear to be starved.


who knows atll the facts? the fact is , they GAVE the dog to someone they felt could take care of it, which means they knew they couldnt properly care for it.

did these people really not know that is only 7 days they would "have a house or be living on a farm?" that in isself throws up red flags for me.

when they dropped the dog off to him, they asked:

1) that he keep the dog
2) or that he find someone that could
3) or that he find a police dept that could take and train the dog

if 2 or 3 happened, the dog would be gone and they knew it. it looks like #1 will happen. the benefit of the doubt rest with the dog IMO, not to the people who gave him away and then unbeknowingly in 7 days supposedly found a stable home to take the dog to.


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

So Selzer, you think I only took the dog because of how he looks? The people could not even tell me who his breeder was or his whelping date. I asked of papers or pedigree and they didn't know what that was. Did you expect him to be mangy with hot spots and tumors? Did I ever say that? Did you see a pic of him with the double knotted collar so tight on his neck so he didn't slip it on the tie out? I said I believed he was malnourished! Maybe my choice of words should have been undernourished lack of protein appropriate foods. If you want to get into that argument maybe we should talk on the nutrition or BARF forum instead. Hopefully you will change your mind the next time you really need a police officer. I can assure you if you are in my jurisdiction I will take a bullet for any of my citizens no questions asked. Sometimes that ticket you received may have prevented that fatality accident that was going to happen just around the curve had I not stopped you. Maybe it was a God thing! Hmm something to ponder!!


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

If you come to my door and offer me a dog and it fits into my family it is now my dog. I guess you could be nice and offer them $100 for the dog.
My neighbor is in a situation where he has been taking care of the other neighbor's dog for YEARS now. I mean vet bills and everything because they don't care. Now he is moving and the dog's life is doomed-I mean chained up outside doomed. I told him offer them a few hundred -in hand- cash and hope they can't resist. If that doesn't work the min that dog gets loose (and it will without him there to watch it) I am going to put that dog in my car and take it to his new location. Yep, I am going to dog nap it. There, Selzer, that should give you something to REALLY complain about.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

When I took in my first female years ago, the guy I took her from was threatening to dump or euthanize a 12 wk old puppy because he had to "ship out" immediately. 

The "breeder" was his girlfriend who wouldn't take the puppy back, because she was "too wild",,(yeah a 12wk old). 

Unfortunately I believed this guy's 'story' of 'shipping out' and felt some sympathy towards him, gave him my address and phone if he wanted to check up on her.

It wasn't a week later and he was calling me from "some undisclosed location, top secret" asking about the dog , again feeling bad, I gave him an update..A week after that, he wanted her back, (and I find out the whole "story" was a big fat lie after doing some snooping)

NO way was this guy getting this dog back, I actually had the cops patrolling my house for months afterward afraid the guy would come and steal her! 

I totally give ALOT of credit to anyone who looks to place their animals should something happen, rather than dump them on the street, however, once done it can't be expected to return that animal when it's convenient for 'them' to have it back. 

Unfortunately ALOT of people don't take into consideration the financial obligation that comes with owning a pet. With the way economy is right now, and it's even worse. 

I'm getting sidetracked,,I would have done the EXACT same thing as the original poster, I give alot of credit to the people who brougth him the dog, however, they did. I wonder if they would reimburse the OP for all his expenses in order to get the dog back?


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Gohawks7 Hopefully you will change your mind the next time you really need a police officer. I can assure you if you are in my jurisdiction I will take a bullet for any of my citizens no questions asked. Sometimes that ticket you received may have prevented that fatality accident that was going to happen just around the curve had I not stopped you.



What the heck is this suppost to mean??
Just because someone doesnt agree with you your going to throw something like that at them?
" Hopefully you will change your mind the next time you really need a police officer."
Where did this even come from sir?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> So much for cops going into the field because they want to help people.
> 
> Congradulations on acquiring a purebred shepherd for the cost of vetting. I think you ought to be proud of that.


I believe his response was to this statement above slamming him and basically accusing him of stealing the puppy that was *given *to him. And I would take that response as saying "hey...you like us just fine when you need us"


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

That's how I took it too, Michelle. From the dog hoarder tazer thread, it's apparent how certain posters feel about LEOs on a whole. Make a tough job even tougher for them, way to go.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I guess I was raised to believe in, and honor, police officers and firemen. I'll add paramedics/EMT's to that list too. They are all doing jobs that I don't have the nerve to do. Maybe I'm just blind and naive.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

AH HA! Ok, I get it now.
And Miss....I have NOTHING against cops....my uncle and both my cousins are Policeman in East Haven.
I was just asking why that statement was made, seemed kinda...I dont know....


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Angel...I don't think Jenn's comments were directed at you.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Everyone has different outlooks on things.
I just didn't understand why the LEO would say something like that?


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Yeah Michelle and Jenn I totally agree with you 
some people just need to keep their mouths shut and 
not say anything when they they nothing on certain topics

Some of my best friends are police officers and Firefighters and 
I have the most respect for them. 
Paramedics they are heros too!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ok...I'm going to show my ignorance and ask what LEO stands for!!


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Would that be me by any chance 
I dont know why you dont like me.
Thats ok.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Law Enforcement Officer


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Of course...that makes perfect sense...duhhh...I think I'll go drink another pot of coofee before I post again.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Have one for me too. I tried a new brand - nope that's the kick from folgers colmbian

*edit* I meant not the kick... I might need to stop at Starbucks to get myself in gear today


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I like the MH French Roast, Folgers French Roast and there's something else from MH we like but can't remember. I really, really like Kahlua Vanilla but's really expensive.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08I like the MH French Roast, Folgers French Roast and there's something else from MH we like but can't remember. I really, really like *Kahlua Vanilla* but's really expensive.


Where do you get that?

I haven't kept up with this thread but I will add that I respect LEO and anyone else willing to put there life before mine.I have a cousin who is a State Police Officer in NH and our friend is going to school for LEO to follow in his Dad's footsteps.I know multiple EMT and Firefighter also.
I think this guy has every right to keep the dog that some person gave to him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

They used to sell it in the P&G but not anymore. Last time I found it I got it from this place thru a fund raiser.
http://www.javajoesroasting.com/mastersh...D2?OpenDocument

"Jamaican Me Crazy"


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

OOOOWWWW Jamaican Me Crazy...Sounds good and not too bad a price.I might have to get me some.What other flavors have you bought? PM me if you want so we don't hijack the thread.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I can kinda see both sides of it.

It *seems* that the OP had his mind made up before he posted anything. Do I think he stole the dog? No, but I dont think the people are evil mean abusive dog owners either. Uneducated, perhaps, but I dont think the dog was in as bad a shape as the OP let on either.

I took what the OP asked as more a question on a moral level.

I also do think that he was asking more for justification on keeping the dog..but, that is neither here nor there now.

I also am a little upset over throwing in a comment as a police officer, after a big fuss over him not posting as a police officer but as a GSD lover.

If him being a police officer has nothing to do with the OP then there was no need to make snarky comments about it (from anyone, for or against)

However, one can only go on how a post comes across. <shrugs>

Anyways, hope it all works out.


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

I think it's kind of funny that some started in on me after I posted the pictures.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Let's not forget that a few days of good care, unlimited water and a bath make a huge difference in how a dog originally looked to what you see now. I would think a breeder would take that into consideration before making any comments.

Our first foster was a dobie girl that stood 27" tall and weighed 58 lbs when I picked her up on a Thursday. Over the weekend she gained 4 lbs just from being hydrated. On Thursday if I pulled her skin, it just hung there. On Monday her skin bounced back like it should. That was an adult dobie. It would take less weight for a puppy to have the same affect.


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

My point exactly Jax08! I was posting the pics so people could see him not his condition at the time. Thanks


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

i think the dog is where he belongs now. i find it very curious that these folks got rid of their dog (which is exactly what they did) and had no inkling that 7 days later they would be "in a house or on a farm". what if the dog is not so lucky the next time they decide to "give away" their dog?

personally, i think that people who take dog ownership VERY seriously dont give their dog away then ask for it back a week later.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: roxy84i think the dog is where he belongs now. i find it very curious that these folks got rid of their dog (which is exactly what they did) and had no inkling that 7 days later they would be "in a house or on a farm". what if the dog is not so lucky the next time they decide to "give away" their dog?
> 
> personally, i think that people who take dog ownership VERY seriously dont give their dog away then ask for it back a week later.


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

One of our Poms is terrified of the fly swatter. From day 1, as soon as it got picked up she would take off and hide. One would think she had been beaten with one, but not so. I know the breeder did not beat her with it in the eight weeks before we got her.


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

Gsdsr#1 maybe someone in your home hit her when you were out? 

I know when a dog has been hit and when it's a case of "shoddy nerves" as gsdolch said. This boy is an awesome boy and socializing like he's been in our house since 8 weeks! I am proud of him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jax is scared of the flyswatter too. I know she's never been hit. It something swinging around, making noise. I posted a question on it and it seems common.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

i think how the dog was or was not treated prior is just part of the equation. to give your dog away is serious and speaks to a pretty unstable environment, imo. ending up with a house or farm to stay at only 7 days later isnt likely a stable situation either, but just another temporary place to stay.

they made a tough choice and it is hard to know their whole story, but if i had to make a judgement on whats best for the dog, i would side with the person who was given the dog.


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

Sorry folks I started to cast stones, just what I didn't want to do. For the record I had no i'll intentions and didn't know the pup was coming my way, but now I'm keeping him and protecting him as he may one day do for me and my family! Let's get on to something else, no bad feelings here. I just want the same good information from this site that always have.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Puppies, and dogs, can be scared of a variety of things for no reasons. Jax, after spending a year and a half being pulled out from under horses, suddenly starting cowering and shaking if she couldn't get away from them. The only time she ignores me calling her is when she is high tailing from the horses to the house. She also suddenly started running from the room when a flyswatter was picked up. go figure.









As far as the rest of it, I agree with Derek. For me the point is that you have a stable home and can care for the puppy without having to worry whether you will have a home next week.


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Gohawks7Gsdsr#1 maybe someone in your home hit her when you were out?
> 
> I know when a dog has been hit and when it's a case of "shoddy nerves" as gsdolch said. This boy is an awesome boy and socializing like he's been in our house since 8 weeks! I am proud of him.



No, it's just hubs and me. And Emma adores hubs and he would never hit her. Any time he is in the hospital, she is inconsolable.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

As a person who was a victim of police misconduct I tried to overlook the cop statement and not hold that against you,lol. I still say they gave you the dog and if they loved it THAT much they wouldn't have knocked on your door in the first place.
let's all remember-it's the INTERNET, people!


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## 2Dogs (Sep 26, 2009)

Remember they are doing a job that they are compensated for. They chose their line of work, the same way you did. Some are good people, some are not. Don't let a uniform be your guide, take them based on their history, you would be amazed at the rubbish that gets a badge these days.


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## 2Dogs (Sep 26, 2009)

ahh yes the Internet, well put


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

hmmmm...are you a cop 2dogs? I'm just wondering how you would have such good information on "the rubbish that gets a badge these days".


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## Gohawks7 (Oct 11, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: 2dogsRemember they are doing a job that they are compensated for. They chose their line of work, the same way you did. Some are good people, some are not. Don't let a uniform be your guide, take them based on their history, you would be amazed at the rubbish that gets a badge these days.


Wow 2dogs tell us how you really feel! Tell us where you got your information about the rubbish. You almost sound like someone that was fired from an agency and now has that deep rooted animosity toward all badges.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Gohawks7 now has 20 posts. 

We know NOTHING about him. We do not know that he actually IS a police officer. I am not slamming him, I am slamming the people who when hearing that someone "knew it was abused", neglected, and malnourished, did not wait around for him to clarify and answer the questions that some of us asked. 

I do not care if he is a pencil pusher or a fireman. It does not mean a thing. My Uncle Charles was police officer in Philadelphia for 20 or more years. I do not give someone who SAYS he is a LEO a free pass anymore than anyone else. I do not give someone who IS an LEO a free pass either. They are only people like the rest of us.

But it seems that when people say they are police officers, some of the people on this thread DO give them a free pass when it comes to honesty and accuracy and knowledge about dogs. Who exactly IS prejudiced?

The OP claims he is a police officer who owns a GSD. He does not claim to be a k9 officer -- at least not that I noticed. So why should we KNOW he KNOWS the difference between what a dog with shoddy nerves or a dog who has been beaten looks like, if there is a such thing???

I made the comment about cops going into the field to help people. He had the perfect opportunity to help this couple out and give them their dog back when they found a place they could all go. Instead he ponders (in a previous post) how he could possibly get them on neglect -- but that is hard to get to stick... 

This dog does not appear to have any of the classic neglect signs. It is a good sized puppy with a nice coat. You can make a dehydrated dog look a whole lot better by getting fluids into them. But putting good weight on a dog is a different story, and when a dog has gotten a poor coat from lack of nutrician, it doesn't just go away when you break out the Evo red meat -- two days later, shazam!!! 

What if.... What if they were renting a place and it burned down? It would take a little time to find some place a puppy can go with them within their budget. We do not KNOW their story. When my brother's buddy died and he moved in with my mom, I cared for his dog for two years while he finished school and got a job and bought a house. He was not presented a bill for board and care. 

So if you came on this site, and said that they brought you the dog, and you took it. After a day or two you decided you would keep it. Then they came and asked for it back. Well, you really want to keep the dog, and are also afraid that when things get rocky for the couple they might try to give up the dog again. So you would not give it back to them. I can buy that. I think it is a bit harsh, but to me that is valid. 

In fact, once they gave you the dog, it was yours to keep or give back. Just keeping it because they gave it to you and you want it does not seem fair to you though. 

Making out that these people are neglectful, abusive, uncaring, and starving the dog to justify keeping the dog rubs me the wrong way. Before the pictures, I asked questions that were not answered about how you knew the dog was abused or underweight/skinny. Now you say it was undernourished. As a police officer, the idea that you could press charges on somebody for feeding their dog Beneful or Old Roy, LOL! But you know that. 

The collar with knots in it, I am sorry, but I cannot get excited by the case for neglectful, abusive, uncaring, etc. 

About your dig on me about ever needing a cop. I called the cops once. Explained a rather uncomfortable situation involving a masher. They asked his name. I told them I did not know his name, but I could tell them what he drives, where he shops, what he always wears, the length of stubble on his chin, the smell of booze, etc. Their answer was that they could not do anything without a name. This is a true story. I had to go and do the leg work myself and come up with the guy's name. Your tax dollars in action. 

The point is, if someone known on the site, came with the same scenario, yeah I would expect people to jump and give this advice. But for someone who we cannot even go back and read a few posts, we do not know him at all. Believing his perception was 100% accurate about the whole thing, and encouraging him to be very harsh and keep the dog even though he and his wife were both hesitant (at first). I find it irresponsible. 

If it makes ya'll feel better you may believe that the pup is in a better place now.

I may have a harsh response. But my response did not keep someone from getting their puppy back. 

And as to the comments as me as a breeder. The first one, about what I would want for the puppy. Well, I do take my pups back, but not everyone is going to be willing to drive or call or whatever. I guess that before I was a breeder, I was a first-time dog owner. I made a lot of mistakes with that dog. Excellent dog owners are not born (though some may be gifted), they progress toward that. Some never make it. I could never sell a puppy if I expected the people to do just as I do with the pup. As for the second question, I have never had a pup or dog that was so neglected that a few days food made a huge difference, but I have tried to put weight back on some skinny dogs, and while it is coming, it is not something you can do overnight.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

dog stuff aside....

I dont think admitting that some police officers are rubbish is a bad thing.

Some of them acutally _are_

Its called being a human.

I know a few LEO's that are rubbish and would like to see them off the force...I know people who work with them who would like to see them off, but they havent done anything illegal (yet) and passed all the tests they needed to, so they are cops.


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

I am a little weary about jumping in here but we'll see how it goes









The ppl dropped the dog off, whether they had good intentions or not it is not ok to let someone become attatched too it and provide care you couldn't and then say, well I want it back now. Part of being responsible is realizing when you can't do whats right AND realizing when you did somthing you might not have wanted to do but still have to deal with the consequences. AKA you gave up your puppy because you couldn't afford it, you can't just get it back because your luck has changed and ignore the other persons attatchment and commintment to it. Perhaps now that thye are in a more stable home they can provide for a new dog better than they did for this guy. 

About the cowering possibly abused idea... I can't count the number of ppl who think we abuse Baya, all the dirty looks we get all the accusations from ppl. Baya has never been physically punished not once and she is not afraid of us but put her around other ppl and she will act like she gets kicked every hour of every day







We are working on it but its taking time. Also before we put Baya on raw she was a scraggly little pup and we thought she was malnurished (thats b4 we figured out dog food is mostly crud and in a way she was







) 

As for LEO there are a few things I would like to say. One is that police officers are unfortunatly held at a higher standard all the time, just like politicians, sports stars and actresses (sadly for the last two) and are always in the spot light, its somthing that comes with the job. Two is that not all police officers are good ppl (not tlking about the OP!!!) I have unfortunatly known two "bad cops" and if you look at news stories you can find a bunch of others, in fact I recently read a very sick story about one in New Jersey involving cows.... Yea lets not go there. Just because they have a badge does not make them a good person even if it should. That being said I admire LEO's that are good at their job and are good people, but that doesn't mean I am going to just trust them from the get go, because as some ppl have pointed out behind that badge is a human.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If the people came back three months later, one month later, it was a couple of days. I don't know what was going on, but that they cared about the dog I am sure. They would have never asked the op to take care of the dog. 

Times are hard right now. People wait for the last minute hoping that things will change, and something will turn up. It seems like something turned up a few days later. 

We villianize these people for trying to find a home for their dog. not dropping it off at a shelter or on the hightway or shooting it, or putting a free ad in the paper for it. 

If I HAD to get rid of a dog, and a few days later something changed completely so that now I would be able to keep the dog, I would go and explain the circumstances to the person. When they dropped the dog off, they did not know if he was going to keep it, find it another home, or donate it for police work. If he still had the dog and was really not wanting a second dog, he may have happily given the dog back to them. 

It sounds like the people, not getting their dog back when they asked gave up. They probably understood that the dog could already be spoken for.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

according to the OP, the people came back a week later. if they were able to take good care of it, they would not have given the dog up in the first place. my logic tells me, therefore, the dog was not being well cared for (which is indicated if indeed it had been tied out most of the time and not received vet care in its 6 months of life) my sense tells me they secured a place to stay for the time being and now regret what they did. i will give the benefit of the doubt to the dog and say the OP is doing the right thing to insure this wont happen to this dog ever again. 

i dont care what the profession of the OP is, but i will say i appreciate all the cops out there who do a very tough job in an ethical manner.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

a lot can change in a week. maybe they had already been told that "no, farm house is already rented" so the place that they would have been moving too wouldn't allow dogs. 
landlord calls a couple days later and says "ok, they canceled, you can have that farmhouse" they see that the dog is still with OP and say "we love him and ARE going to be able to take him" so they go to ask for him back. 
just because a dog doesn't get to live in the house or have super nice things doesn't mean that they didn't love or care for their dog. even if he lives outside. by that model, animal control would always be full because very few people would have dogs.

I've been in those people's position. Lost a home we were renting because the owner decided to sell. we had less than a week to find a place that would allow dogs. we all know those are few and far between, so we had to move to a temp. apartment that didn't allow pets. our neighbors agreed to take him because, at the time, we didn't know when/if we would be able to take him back. 

the only thing that is bad here is that we have only one side of the story. there is always "my side, your side, and the truth" maybe they meant "keep him and if we aren't able to straighten things out, find him another home" maybe they thought that since he was a dog lover (having his own GSD) he would be understanding that they were able to work things out and could keep him. 

I do know that if I had gone back to my neighbors and they had said "too bad" I would have been heartbroken. 

I'm not saying that the OP is lying or even stretching the truth. but sometimes people mean one thing and the other person hears something else.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Interesting thread. 

Selzer you always make some excellent posts and most times I agree with you. I am disagreeing with you on this but I can't agree with you 100% either. 

You do say GoHawks7 has only 20 posts and we don't know him. 2dogs has all of 35, we don't him/her either.

I have almost 15,000 and you don't know me either. I don't think number of posts is any way to judge anyone. 

In many places if you feed an animal (stray) for more than 3 days you are considered financially responsible for it. This dog was not a stray but the OP did take financial responsibility for it. Morally,he has become responsible for the pup. And I bet now that this much time has passed he is legally responsible for the pup.

It is sad the people could not keep the dog and I think they did a good thing taking it to GoHawks. They may have came back once but did not take the dog and the OP still has the dog as they have not come back again. Whether they love the pup or not they have abandond him. He now belongs to GoHawks. 

I would microchip him ASAP tho. I'll have to look at the pics when I get to my "house" tonight. 

Congrats on the new pup and welcome to the board!


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

They came back? And you didnt give them back their puppy?
Is that the rest of the story?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: KathyWYou do say GoHawks7 has only 20 posts and we don't know him. 2dogs has all of 35, we don't him/her either.
> 
> I have almost 15,000 and you don't know me either. I don't think number of posts is any way to judge anyone.


This what Kathy and selzer say is so important. I am not referring to this case, but internet in general and pet stuff specifically. It is what makes some on the rescue boards really wish they could get their hands on heavy meds! 

It is hard to really know someone when you are around them physically-all those people you are related to or work with who surprise you with some new behavior. It is even more difficult via the internets. 

Thanks for letting me say that.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Oh yes. I'd like to add it's a lot easier to cut someone up online when most of these people would walk away in person.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Ugh. This thread is annoying, just like all the other LEO bashing threads. First off, at NO point did the OP in his post refer to being a police officer to push his weight around. He used it only as an explaination as to why the people told him to find a police department to give the dog to. He didn't make the comment as "I'm like god, believe me, I'm a police officer!"

Second off, however many sides of the story there are. Bottom line is these people went to his house and surrendered their dog to him. I think we're all in agreement that he didn't go running up to these people and snach the dog off the street (although selzer is such a conspiracy theorist, I guess it would't surprise me if that becomes the new story). Whether the dog was in great health or poor health is besides the point. They, for whatever reason, broke their bond with that dog and gave him to someone. That dog is now the other person's. I for one, would have been devestated if after a week of having Elsa someone came to our house and said "gee, her owner's finally came looking for her. Sorry, but we're taking her back."

Whether it's one week or ten years....once you make that decision the dog is going to be a part of your family, they are family.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Kacie is from an abandonment. 
I feared the first year I had her the former "owner" would come and try to take her away from me. I think Kacie feared it as well, she is camera shy, acts like she is on the wanted list~LOL! 
I'd never give her back, she was a chained out dog who was in very poor condition when I got her. The only reason the former owner would want her back is to possibly sell her, I'm sure.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: Angel RThey came back? And you didnt give them back their puppy?
> Is that the rest of the story?


It would seem obvious that they did not ask for him back at that moment, they only said they would like him back when they got the farm house? Not sure of this but I would use my common sense and draw that conclusion. 

Lighten up.


GoHawk, he is a handsome boy and I hope this works out for the best of all concerned.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: KathyW
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Angel RThey came back? And you didnt give them back their puppy?
> ...


MISS I was asking if thats what happend.............
Lighten up about what?
I was simply asking a legit question


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

considering the dog was in bad health when you got him,
no way should you give the dog back. nurse the dog back
to good health. if you can't keep him find a good home for him.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Who said the dog was in bad health??? 

Gohawks7 said the dog was malnourished, then skinny, now he is saying undernourished, (not being fed premium food).

Everything was good at the vet, unless I read that wrong.

I asked how many pounds underweight and there was no answer, the answer was that the dog was not being fed Evo or Orijon, oh my, somebody better call PETA on me. 

It is true that we do not KNOW someone with 15000 posts, but some of us have met one another, we have an idea of who you are, seen pictures of your dogs, and have heard what you think on a variety of topics. No it is not a good way to judge someone. But someone coming onto a forum specifically to ask a question about whether it is morally right to keep the dog, as the people asked for it back. If the dog was seriously neglected or abused or malnourished, no way would the guy have to get advice from complete strangers. 

In my opinion, originally the guy was on the bubble, he wanted to keep the dog, but he felt that he should probably give it back. Otherwise, why ask? 

Listening to a bunch of us turn into sharks looking to eat abusive, neglectful owners for lunch. He made up his mind. At least he claims to have made up his mind after reading the posts. 

It sounded like they asked for the pup, and the wife read them the proper treatment of GSDs lecture, and did not give the pup back, but did not say no, either. 

I see abandoning a dog and giving up or rehoming a dog as two separate things. The breeder who keeps bitches for six years and then spays and sells them to pet homes, are they abandoning the bitch? Am I abandoning puppies when I place them? Are rescues abandoning the dogs when they place them? 

I think that finding a home for your dog and ensuring that the dog is being cared for is not abandoning. I see abandoning a dog as dropping it in a pound or out in the country, or leaving it in the home when you move out. 

I did not read that this dog did not go inside. The OP says that he got some walks and was mostly on a tieout. Is this what the owners told him? Or did they tell him that they knotted the collar because he would slip it when on the tie out, and he took that to mean that the dog is generally tied out? There is nothing wrong with a tie out. It can be abused like anything else, but if you do not have a good fence, then putting the dog on a tie out while you are working in the yard can save its life. Putting the dog out for a few minutes to potty on a tie out is not a problem. 

I am here assuming that the OP is assuming that the dog was constantly tied outside. Some people assume that the OP is unbiased in his assessment of the situation, and I assume he is biased as he wants to keep the dog. 

When circumstances are such that you cannot care for a dog, I do not think we should say someone abandons the dog if they find someone willing to care for the dog. But once you give up a dog to someone you should not expect them to give it back. But it does not make you a villian to ask.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I haven't been called Miss in a long time.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Sorry I dont know how to spell mam'me?
whatever how you spell it.
LOL


*Is that what happened though*


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What's wrong with "KathyW"?

Saying "Mister" or "Miss" -- well "Miss" is kind of bad because it suggests an unmarried woman. You are a mister or a master, but no one uses "master" any more. But for woman you are either Mrs -- married, Miss -- unmarried, or Ms -- a burner of certain underclothes. I personally hate them all. Madam sounds like one who runs the ladies of the night. Ma'am sounds like a school marm. 

So, Mister, why not just use the name? LOL


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

I dont know. I always do that.
Sorry


PS Im not a mister........Im a miss.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Oops, 

Well, you never can tell with names. 

I had been signing my name Sue to my posts for quite a while because people thought I was a guy. 

This is a problem with writing a post, you cannot the inflection, and adding the MISS in there could be percieved as condescending or some added attitude, depending on who's doing the reading. You may be doing it as a sign of respect, another could be reading it as an insult. 

I think it is too late, to be coherent for me, so I will stop trying nwo.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Mrs. Woodbury is my mother-in-law.
I was called Ma'am in the Army as I am a former Officer. I hated it, made me feel old. 

But now I am older.... ma'am still makes me feel old!









Ms. seems too bland and Miss seems childish as I am well over 40. Well over 40.









I'm just plain Kathy.









Levity is always a good thing!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

since there is so much debate I'll throw my experience so far with Freya into the mix. we got her last week from a woman who was running a small dog puppy mill. 

she lived 24/7 in an outdoor run, not even any grass in it. she slept in a barrel with some dirty/muddy straw. she was fed the cheapest food and it was just dumped in the cage once a day for the 2 dogs. the woman didn't know how much, just used a coffee can to scoop some up. hadn't seen a vet in 2 years. never had a single vaccine. had a litter of 9 pups last year and the woman said she never increased the food because Freya still looked "fat" when she was nursing.

what did the vet say? other than her coat being a bit dry, she is the picture of health. she weighed in at a hulking 71 lbs, even though she looks a bit skinny. her main "abuse" was not being exposed to other people, which by the OPs own words this dog had walks, even if he did live outside. 

Let's face it.. what we consider "bad care" the rest of the country considers to be "above par" 
Is the dog getting a better quality of care with Gohawks? without a doubt. but that doesn't automatically make the original owners abusers.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

its amazing that so many want to jump on the ability of the OP to judge the situation better than any of us, but go out of their way to give the benefit of the doubt to the people who gave their dog away because they either could not or did not want to take care of him. 
without knowing the whole story, i only have the following information: they gave their dog away to someone they believed could provide the dog a good home. the OP intends on providing the dog a STABLE, PERMANENT home. if i, as the OP did, judged that a dog that was given to me was poorly taken care of, then i would do the exact same thing. 

this forum is not a court of law, but certain members act as though the OP must provide them with specific evidence that satisfies their own definition of poor care. 

if they had asked the OP to temporarily keep their dog or if the OP found the dog and wouldnt give it back, then that is different alltogether. there is no indication that any of those things occured.

maybe the OP had his mind made up already when he posted. ive seen that done a thousand times on this board and i suppose it is human nature to look for some support for a decision you have already made. it doesnt necessarily make his decision flawed.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: KathyW
> 
> 
> 
> ...



SORRY! Didnt mean it as an insult!


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

I don't paint all cops with the same brush but God help you if you get a bad one.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SuzyEI don't paint all cops with the same brush but God help you if you get a bad one.


What does that mean?

(Not being stupid. Like what does that saying mean?)


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## 2Dogs (Sep 26, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Gohawks7
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: 2dogsRemember they are doing a job that they are compensated for. They chose their line of work, the same way you did. Some are good people, some are not. Don't let a uniform be your guide, take them based on their history, you would be amazed at the rubbish that gets a badge these days.
> ...


Not even close. I have no source for the information your request is is only my opinion.

I am finished with this thread, I promise.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: KathyW as I am well over 40. Well over 40.


You're over 40?
I'm sure you and I are close to the same age.
25


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Ok - I've read a few of these --
on salutations - I tell people "Ms." if you must but I prefer to be called by my first name. Except down here. It is "Miss X". I've given up. Southerners and people used to doing business with southerners just do "Miss X" I haven't heard them refer to men as Mr. X yet. 

Regarding questioning the OPs ability to judge --- he came here asking for opinions. In my book, it is fine that they are offered, that people giving them are asking more questions. If you want affirmations, you need to go to a therapy group not a dog board.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

Angel-it means that I don't think all cops are bad just because I had the misfortune of getting a crazy one who tried to ruin my life. This guy had many complaints/law suits not just mine. I don't believe all cops are bad though.
Anyway I think this cop has dropped the board.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SuzyEAngel-it means that I don't think all cops are bad just because I had the misfortune of getting a crazy one who tried to ruin my life. This guy had many complaints/law suits not just mine. I don't believe all cops are bad though.
> Anyway I think this cop has dropped the board.


Thanks for explaining!!!


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## herno1 (Sep 10, 2008)

I'll say NO. They GAVE you the dog, YOU took him to the vet, YOU take care of him, and most important YOU and YOUR family already bonded with him. He is NOT a yo-yo. It's not like they going to give it to you and/or pick him up whenever they want.
THEY made the decision of give him away. Now SCREW THEM, YOU keep the dog.
As you can see pisses me off that people think of dogs like if they were clothes or "stuff".


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## GSDluver4lyfe (Nov 15, 2006)

Hmmm...

I wonder if there had happen to be a little piece of paper signed, transferring ownership legally, would people have the same response? Would it have changed the case since they had legal documentation that the dog was given to him?

I learned the hard way to always have proof when ownership is transferred. 

Selzer, you act as if this person went out hunting for a purebred GSD, saw one on a chain and took it. He was APPROACHED and ASKED to take this dog, for whatever the case may be. I honestly dont care if the OP thinks the dog was abused or not. Doesnt even matter. What matters is that he was given the dog. PERIOD
And it is ultimately up to the OP, who has housed and taken care of this dog.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

I see it from a different angle than most I guess.

These people could have killed the dog, they could have just dumped it on the street anywhere, they could have dropped it at animal control to likely be euthed... All would have been easier, quicker, but they didn't.

They did what they had to do to find it a place where it would be safe, fed, and cared for. They didn't just drop it off, they took action and found and asked someone to care for it until they succeeded.

That puts them well above an abuser, or neglecter, or bad people in my book. They made an effort for this dog's sake, it was not disposable property to them.

It didn't seem obviously physically harmed, diseased, starving.. from what has been said.

They knew they could not properly care for it in their situation and did the best thing for the dog one can reasonably do. Find it a safe home that can. I would likely do the exact same thing if the circumstances were thrust upon me.

That said, they gave the dog up, and the OP has every right to keep the dog, it is his dog now.

It's the OP's choice to give it back or not, and nothing morally wrong with either decision IMO. Whatever he feels he wants to do, for whatever reason he has, is his choice.

I might give the dog back, I might not, I would have a long talk with the people first to learn more about their situation first though if I did.

I wouldn't presume to judge the OP regardless of what he decided in this situation though.

Yes they may have busted their butts to change their situation in a week, and may now actually be in a position to care for the dog who they obviously cared about. That doesn't change the fact it is no longer their dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree with you. 

I do not know why the OP had to paint such a picture of neglect and abuse. They GAVE him the dog, that makes it his decision whether to give it back. 

I see nothing wrong with the people asking for the dog back. The guy may not have wanted another dog, and may not have found a new owner and may have been happy to give it back. Or he MAY have thought it was the right thing to do. 

The hatred spewed at these people for asking for help, and then for asking for the dog back is what has really ticked me off for this whole thread. 

No a dog is NOT a yo yo, but a week is nothing. I bet half of you have left a dog in a kennel or with a relative for a week while on vacation. It is not like going back six months or a year later and demanding the dog. 

When Arwen was missing, someone called me and offered me a dog. I talked to my mom about it, and being very distraught, my mom thought it would be a good idea. I went an got Mina. They were having trouble with her fighting with the pomeranian. They told me that if I ever needed to give her up to call them. 

A few days later I found Arwen. I brought her home. Mina was in heat. Frodo was in his glory. I had to keep everyone separated. Mina and Arwen started to fight. I had her only about three weeks. I called them and they seemed so relieved. They missed her so much that they wanted to call me and ask for her back.


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