# Clicker not the way to go for Working Line? WHY??



## Two (Jul 18, 2011)

So I am sure that most of you have seem me around the forums the past couple weeks even though I am quite new. I've been researching GSD's for a while and recently I have been looking for trainers in my area, both Agility and Schutzhund. When I told the trainer (just an obedience trainer) that I was getting a working line GSD he told me that he thinks clicker training isn't the best way to go about things since the dog should have such a strong drive. He told me that he recommends a K9 specialist (or someone in police training) to train my dog. I currently do not have a puppy/dog but I do plan on getting a working line. Since this will be my first GSD my breeder said she would pick the perfect pup for me, one that doesn't have too much drive.

(Edit: I do obviously plan on doing most of the training from my own experience and videos and information I have gained on this website, not purely just using a trainer.. If I had it my way I wouldn't use one. But I guess it is another good way to socialize your dog.)

I do plan on getting a little competitive (as far as I can get since I am still in University) in Agility and Schutzhund.... IF I can find the right trainers for me.

Well anyways to sum it up what do you guys think about clicker training a working line GSD? I have seen all the links about clicker training and how good it is, so don't waste time linking those!! :wub:

Anything is helpful, I just want the best for my pup when I get him!


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I know many people on the forum use clicker training with their working line GSDs.


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## Two (Jul 18, 2011)

Ya that's what I thought, this guy must not know too much I am guessing. Thanks Jessie.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ask MRL she uses clicker training for her working lines(I think) and she has videos(mostly Agility videos.)


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

The person you spoke to is clueless. Many many many people here have working line dogs and use a clicker. 

Maybe when you said working line they thought it was a retired police dog or something?


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I am really not qualified to give training advice as I am new to training as well but so far I really like the clicker. It seams to work very well for my 12 week old who is working line. He is already doing a fairly good job of sitting, downing, staying, coming, and a reasonable attempt at healing - all with the clicker. I tried marker training at first but I had a hard time remembering to say "Yes" consistently when he did something right. Some times, i would say "good" or would just give him his food reward without even saying anything. So the clicker helps me with a consistent response as well as helps him know when he did it right.


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## Two (Jul 18, 2011)

Jessie: Thanks I will, I have talked to her a couple times already.. really nice person.

Sage: Actually I think he was just clueless, I will take advice from people on this forum any day over people I meet here who think they know whats going on. No, I told him that I was getting a puppy GSD and plan on training agility / SchH and I said I just wanted to check out some places to see if I liked them or not.

Thanks


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

HUH??????? Clicker/Marker training is fine for a WL dog!!! I do AKC ob titles on all my WL dogs, have one dog - Yoshey x Pike are grandsires - who is doing Agility and AKC ob, another couple doing flyball (one of those a Sch2) and do alot of my foundation with youngsters in an AKC club where all breeds train using positive/marker training...

Look a bit further for trainers....

Lee


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## Two (Jul 18, 2011)

Wolf: Like I said I am in the early stages of getting my puppy and am starting EARLY to look for a good trainer for my dog, and one that I like. That's the reason I came on here to ask everyone what they thought about what the trainer had to say about clicker training. 

Thanks for the input.


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

Here is an example of Miya's breeder using a clicker with a 4.5 month old puppy.

‪Ramona vom Geistwasser, aka Mona‬‏ - YouTube


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## Two (Jul 18, 2011)

Tint: Cool video, training the dog how to heel it looks like? I will for sure be using a clicker then =]


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I was just doing some clicker training with Halo today. I've done hand targeting with her from the time she came home as a puppy (she'll be 3 years old in November) but we're starting on a target stick for flyball class, so I was practicing with her dinner kibble as the treat.


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## Two (Jul 18, 2011)

Debbie: Cool info! I was just wondering you said you used her dinner kibble for treats? Does that mean you skipped her dinner and just trained her with treats for her dinner? 

Because I am curious if I am training to dog I should just use the dog food as treats, then feed him as much as he would usually eat in a meal for training.

I don't know if that question came out right but I hope it did =]


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

I use clicker training on my WL pup and I'm really pleased with the results. I've clicker trained all my dog so far.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. I know people that use clicker training for PROTECTION training!


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## Two (Jul 18, 2011)

Ya I kind of just dropped the conversation when he said that... Was a little thrown off.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

that drive is excellent for clicker training.

Personally, I've dropped the clicker (too many times of dropping the clicker!!) and just use voice markers. But that's just me, I'm dead clumsy and have bad timing with the clicker. Same thing, just a different way to mark. 

Singe will offer behaviors and you can just see his little brain spinning!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I don't know Debbie's answer, but I use meals for training treats. Why waste all that learning opportunity in a bowl meal? I still do it with the older dogs. They"work" to earn their food. I think they are actually disappointed when I have to feed a bowl meal because they like the training fun.


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## mthurston0001 (Jul 12, 2009)

It's not about the click. Its about the mark. I don't like clickers, especially for new handlers/trainers because it's just one more piece of equipment to mess with.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Two said:


> So I am sure that most of you have seem me around the forums the past couple weeks even though I am quite new. I've been researching GSD's for a while and recently I have been looking for trainers in my area, both Agility and Schutzhund. When I told the trainer (just an obedience trainer) that I was getting a working line GSD he told me that he thinks clicker training isn't the best way to go about things since the dog should have such a strong drive. He told me that he recommends a K9 specialist (or someone in police training) to train my dog. I currently do not have a puppy/dog but I do plan on getting a working line. Since this will be my first GSD my breeder said she would pick the perfect pup for me, one that doesn't have too much drive.
> 
> (Edit: I do obviously plan on doing most of the training from my own experience and videos and information I have gained on this website, not purely just using a trainer.. If I had it my way I wouldn't use one. But I guess it is another good way to socialize your dog.)
> 
> ...


 Having not read any other responses, and i'm hoping i'm just reiterating what someone has already said, but this person doesn't have a clue how "clicker" training works, or how high drive dogs work.

It is absolutely the clearest and easist way to train a dog, the higher the drive the better. Ob needs very little in the way of anything else. Protection requires a bit different approach at times depending on how fast you try and progress and what frame of mind the dog is in, but that's a whole other conversation.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Samba said:


> I don't know Debbie's answer, but I use meals for training treats. Why waste all that learning opportunity in a bowl meal? I still do it with the older dogs. They"work" to earn their food. I think they are actually disappointed when I have to feed a bowl meal because they like the training fun.


 use the whole bowl as the training reward and see how powerful that reinforcement is  I don't use it for much, mostly just retrieve imprinting, but it is a powerful motivator.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Two said:


> Debbie: Cool info! I was just wondering you said you used her dinner kibble for treats? Does that mean you skipped her dinner and just trained her with treats for her dinner?
> 
> Because I am curious if I am training to dog I should just use the dog food as treats, then feed him as much as he would usually eat in a meal for training.
> 
> I don't know if that question came out right but I hope it did =]


I used kibble a lot when she was a puppy, and that's exactly what I did - I'd measure out how much I'd normally feed her for that meal and toss it into my treat bag. If there was any left when I was done training it would go into her bowl. I didn't have time in the morning, so for that meal it was all fed out of a bowl (but I do use the bowl for impulse control training - my dogs sit or down while I put the bowl on the floor and wait to be released to eat it), but I took the first week off work to stay home with her and then for the next few weeks I took a long lunch break and came home for a couple of hours mid-day. She ate virtually all her lunch kibble as training treats, and usually at least half her dinner too. For class I'd bring something higher value, or I'd mix a couple of different kinds of treats together with the kibble to flavor it and shake it up in a ziplok bag.

If your dog will work for kibble, there's no reason not to use it for training. Now I do most of my training out in public so I usually use more interesting treats since I'm competing with the environment and high value treats are better for that. But I just started a new class last weekend where I will be doing some work at home with her, so I figured I may as well use her dinner kibble for that. She is a "will work for food" kinda girl, so I don't have any trouble keeping her engaged, even with a relatively low value food reward, if we're training around the house.


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## s14roller (Nov 18, 2010)

I also feed most of her meal during training. We typically train right before dinner with kibble being her treats...I'd say we go through half as treats, and the rest as her meal. 

Re: the clicker question, you have all the answers you need


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## jmoney (Jul 21, 2010)

marker/clicker training is used by ALOT of working line dogs, I don't use a clicker just because I don't see the need for one, a verbal marker works just as well.


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## ihtsbih09 (Jan 8, 2013)

I have very high drive 10 month old GSD and I recently have done away with using treats as a reward when training. I think what that person meant was you should use a toy as the reward. I have now used a ball on a rope for her when training and she gets so amped up about it but she is listening to me now while she is in high drive mode and that is key. I would recommend you get the basics down (like sit, stay and down) with the treats than find out what brings her drive out and use that for training. From my understanding most MWDs are trained without treats but instead toys. But each dog is different.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Didn't Hunter just recently post a video of a Dog being worked on the sleeve where the handler is using a clicker? 

Police in Germany uses Clickers, Schutzhund handlers use clickers, French Ring uses Clicker or Voice Markers... They are used anywhere and everywehre. It's a personal decision whether or not you use a marker.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

two year old thread - the person who just added to it might want to start a new one.....

just sayin'

lee


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Clicker or voice is fine. I'm more concerned that the breeder is going to choose a pup for you that does not have a lot of drive and you are thinking about doing schH and agility. You should be looking for the pup with the most drive. You will likely regret getting a lower drive pup after you get into whatever area you train in. High drive is not the same as hyper and you actually use the high drive to gain more control over your dog. What is your reluctance about getting a dog with high drive? Sounds like the breeder is essentially going to give you one of his/her washouts.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Nevermind.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

ihtsbih09 said:


> I have very high drive 10 month old GSD and I recently have done away with using treats as a reward when training. I think what that person meant was you should use a toy as the reward. I have now used a ball on a rope for her when training and she gets so amped up about it but she is listening to me now while she is in high drive mode and that is key. I would recommend you get the basics down (like sit, stay and down) with the treats than find out what brings her drive out and use that for training. From my understanding most MWDs are trained without treats but instead toys. But each dog is different.


Think most of us know that using treats AND toys are the way to go. And for teaching new behaviors a clicker can actually be the way to go for most of our dogs. 

Schutzhund Clicker Training | High Drive Puppy Foundation | German Shepherd Dog Training


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