# Little Kira literally MAULED by an 18 month GSD!!



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

First, I want to say that little Kira was NOT physically harmed. I don't see any cuts or bite marks on her body.

Here's what happened:

It was about 9am today. There's a local dog park, that has access to the dog beach, where i always bring Kira for her walks. 
The park rules allow dogs to be OFF leash until 9am.

I NEVER bring Kira there to play with the other dogs. I usually go there after dogs are leashed, or the park is empty.

I waited in my car until after 9am, and made sure all the dogs in sight were leashed. (I wanted to go to the beach, but had to walk through the park).

About 9:15, I exit my truck, and start walking towards the trail that leads to the water. Out of nowhere, comes a large, white, GSD and starts mauling Kira! The dog pins Kira down, and is viscously trying to bite her while growling in a ferocious sound. Kira is screaming on the floor, and I'm trying to jump in between the dog and Kira, and pick her up. Kira breaks free from my grip and starts running. The GSD starts pursuing her! Kira has her tail between her legs, and she's screaming. The GSD catches her, and pins her down again. She's shaking her like a stuffed dog toy!
I finally get to her, and lift her up. The owner of the dog FINALLY came running over and contained his dog. He was apologetic, and very remorseful for what just happened.

I fear that all the socialization just went out the window, and my dog is scarred.

I need experienced people to chime in on this one, and lead me in the right direction to make sure Kira's terrific temperament isn't affected by what happened.


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## sharkey19 (Sep 25, 2011)

How old is Kira? I know Dax was actually bit during one of the "fear stages" and I was concerned it would scar him for life, but he continued to do fine around dogs. 

Do you know people with dogs? You could start doing some positive experiences in a controlled environment for her?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

sharkey19 said:


> How old is Kira? I know Dax was actually bit during one of the "fear stages" and I was concerned it would scar him for life, but he continued to do fine around dogs.
> 
> Do you know people with dogs? You could start doing some positive experiences in a controlled environment for her?


Kira is just under 4 months. She's always around dogs and people, and never had an issue.
The other dog attacked her out of nowhere


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

How is she today? So sorry to hear about her being attacked. I think socialization w/safe dogs in a controlled enviroment is a good idea.I had a bad experiences w/ daisy as a puppy w/ a rottie who came to our house w/ his owner. Daisy was 5 months old.Is your breder close by?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> How is she today? So sorry to hear about her being attacked. I think socialization w/safe dogs in a controlled enviroment is a good idea.I had a bad experiences w/ daisy as a puppy w/ a rottie who came to our house w/ his owner. Daisy was 5 months old.Is your breder close by?


She's fine. Right now she's rolling on the floor with her favorite toy 

She's in "obedience beginner", and before each class, they have 10 minutes of play time with the other pups. Never an issue.

Why do you ask about the breeder? Just curious.

Should I go get her Shutzhund - champ father, and teach that dog a lesson? (just kidding)


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Anthony, I wondered if the breeder might have some young adult or other GSD's that could be safe to play and socialize with. I didnt know she is in a class.. If not her Dad ,maybe her Mom after all GSD moms dont take no crap when it comes to their own, (Just kidding)


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Anthony, I wondered if the breeder might have some young adult or other GSD's that could be safe to play and socialize with. I didnt know she is in a class.. If not her Dad ,maybe her Mom after all GSD moms dont take no crap when it comes to their own, (Just kidding)


She was with her grandfather up until three months. I watched her play with him, and they were both fine. Of course, I couldn't take him home with us, so we'll have to go from here.
We also have a 6 year old Maltese, and she plays well with her. At times, she could be pesky, but for the most part, everything is OK.

I'm very concerned about chance encounters going forward from here. I'm now concerned that my wife may be walking her, and she may turn aggressive on another dog in passing by. Right now, she's barely 30lbs, but at 75 lbs, my wife or daughter may have a hard time containing her.

I guess I'm worried that the seed was planted for fear aggression.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

First off - I would have no problems with kicking the attacking dog....and yelling NO NO NO at him! The owner needs to be kicked pretty soundly as well....if the dog will attack smaller dogs - and even PUPPIES!!!!!!!! - he has no business letting the dog off a leash AT ALL ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRR I HATE DOG PARKS!!!!!!! They are full of idiots and delusional la la land minded people....!!!!

Continue to socialize her with other SAFE dogs - particularly if you can find white ones!!! I am not a big fan of dogs "needing" dog playtime...but in this case - to avoid dog specific fear aggression, it is something that should be done ....

As far as walking and control....when she is older, both the pup and your wife should learn how to walk with a prong collar. 

Sorry Kira got beat up....hope you can do enough damage control!

Lee


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

My dog was chased a few times as a pup at a dog park. I think it set her up to be fearful but it could also be her temperament. She fine with 'good' dogs but always steers clear on first meeting any dog. All I did was try to find places where I knew she wouldn't be challenged but could meet dogs with appropriate behavior. She never lost her playfulness but always starts out suspicious..
Dogs have a genetic predispostion regarding how they socialize. All you can do is try to adapt to the needs of your dog and try to get her to adapt as much as she is able.
It's not the end of the world if she never meets another dog but I understand that many GSD owners want theirs to be able to play with others safely.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> *First off - I would have no problems with kicking the attacking dog....and yelling NO NO NO at him! The owner needs to be kicked pretty soundly as well....if the dog will attack smaller dogs - and even PUPPIES!!!!!!!! - he has no business letting the dog off a leash AT ALL ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRR I HATE DOG PARKS!!!!!!! They are full of idiots and delusional la la land minded people....!!!!*
> 
> Continue to socialize her with other SAFE dogs - particularly if you can find white ones!!! I am not a big fan of dogs "needing" dog playtime...but in this case - to avoid dog specific fear aggression, it is something that should be done ....
> 
> ...


I agree 100%. 

I was all over the other dog. I was trying to pull him off her, and couldn't care less if I took a bite. 

FWIW... I was in the car watching all these dogs play for a good 15 minutes. All the dogs were playing, and I didn't see any incident.
It's a regular group of dog lovers, and they were shocked at what happened. I know a few people there, and the said that they were very surprised it happened, because that dog plays with all the pups and dogs on a regular basis, and has never had an aggression issue. They were shocked.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

How common is it for a DOG to attack a PUPPY?
Or is it an instinct to NOT bother with puppies?


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

I think is is uncommon for dogs to attack a puppy. There is no threat.
That white GSD should be watched closely.


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## IllinoisGSD (Sep 21, 2011)

I would have given that white dog a good kick in the ribs if he was attacking my puppy. At least I think I would have, hard to tell until you're in the situation. I'm glad your pup is ok.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Given the sustained attack you describe, the fact she has no cuts or marks on her body tells me that the dog showed incredible bite inhibition.
I have one dog who will "maul" puppies in that manner but leave no bites, only pack members (our own home/family) but I think that may have been what was going on. Some adult dogs feel all puppies need to "learn a lesson", that lesson being lost on humans of course 
But still, from what you describe, your puppy should be at an ER vet being sewn back up or even dying, yet she doesn't even have a mark, a bite, or cut on her...


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

Oh dear I'm so sorry this has happened! You must of been so frightened. 
Rio was attacked a few months back by a strange dog in a field near our house. She ended up with puncture marks on her neck and back and I was bitten fairly badly before a man who was walking by saved us. 
The best thing you can do now is find some very gentle dogs that your girl can be around. The classes are a great place to help her confidence along. She may be skittish around dogs for a while but just ignore her if you know she is safe. Try not panic as she will sense this and it will feed her fear. It took me a while to feel calm around dogs with her but I faked it pretty good from the start. 
Rio has only had a few lasting problems from the attack. She is not aggressive but will drop to her belly if a dog runs by to fast. I carried loads of smelly treats and lavished praise on her when she reacted calmly. I taught her to stand and stay when a dog approched (that I was comfortable with her meeting) so they could have a sniff of her and move on.
I hope your pup recovers quickly. Its up to you now to make every meeting from now on calm and happy.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

This happened to Dakota too. Attacked as a puppy when she was 5 months by a uneuterd male GSD at the dog park (back when I didn't know better). The owner of the GSD did not offer an appology and did not leave the dog park. Not a mark on her but the GSD came from a perfect heel with their owners to a full out run to us who was at least 100 feet away. I wanted to persue it more with the owner of the GSD but I was with my daughter who was horrified that I even yelled at this guy. I wanted this guy to leave the park so I could find a friendly dog to play with Dakota.

She seemed fine afterwards. Then it happened again, not at a dog park but at a leashed dog beach about 6 months later. Golden came out of the water and attacked her. Owner of golden was quick and grabbed his dog by the back legs before the dog actually conneted. Then it happened again with a JRT on a retractable leash. Owner did not have it locked. Then I had another GSD lunge and bark at her from a distance. Then I started having problems with her reacting to dogs who barked and lunged at her. Before this she would completly ignor those dogs as she continued her
walk with me.

Get your puppy out and around known friendly dogs, as many as possible. Get the ratio up of friendly dogs vs. dogs that attack. Make sure they are all 100% positive. Keep the meetings short and sweet.

I wished I had done more of that with my dog.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Given the sustained attack you describe, the fact she has no cuts or marks on her body tells me that the dog showed incredible bite inhibition.
> I have one dog who will "maul" puppies in that manner but leave no bites, only pack members (our own home/family) but I think that may have been what was going on. Some adult dogs feel all puppies need to "learn a lesson", that lesson being lost on humans of course
> But still, from what you describe, your puppy should be at an ER vet being sewn back up or even dying, yet she doesn't even have a mark, a bite, or cut on her...


After I removed her, I open the back of the truck and gave her a good inspection. After seeing no visible marks, I also wondered exactly what happened. Could it have been a "pack leader" - type thing? 
Is there a chance that dog thought Kira was a cat?
As far as bruises, that GSD had Kira in her mouth, and was attempting to shake her. 
It was a scary moment for both of us.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I'm not sure about "why" but I think the adult did sense your dog is a puppy and therefore needed to be "careful"?
It's still not okay, but it sure could have been worse from the sounds of it.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

It was bad enough to attract the attention of everyone in the park. People were taking turns coming over to her, petting he, kissing her, and just making sure she was OK.

I agree with your assessment about bite control, but if anyone saw this, they would swear the puppy was seriously hurt.

I need avoid this scenario


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Given the sustained attack you describe, the fact she has no cuts or marks on her body tells me that the dog showed incredible bite inhibition.
> I have one dog who will "maul" puppies in that manner but leave no bites, only pack members (our own home/family) but I think that may have been what was going on. Some adult dogs feel all puppies need to "learn a lesson", that lesson being lost on humans of course


That's exactly what I was going to say... it seems the white GSD was not aiming to hurt the pup, but was intent on "proving" something. I find that insecure wannabe-alpha types tend toward this sort of thing, picking on puppies and smaller dogs because they're an easy target. So while that dog certainly has issues, at least she does have good bite inhibition. Glad no one was hurt!!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Anthony8858 said:


> It was bad enough to attract the attention of everyone in the park. People were taking turns coming over to her, petting he, kissing her, and just making sure she was OK.
> 
> I agree with your assessment about bite control, but if anyone saw this, they would swear the puppy was seriously hurt.
> 
> I need avoid this scenario


If you have a fenced yard, there's no reason to visit dog parks. I'd make sure interactions continue in controlled settings. 

And yes, puppies can scream pretty loudly when they think they are being killed. I'm sure she was scared out of her mind!


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Freestep said:


> That's exactly what I was going to say... it seems the white GSD was not aiming to hurt the pup, but was intent on "proving" something. I find that insecure wannabe-alpha types tend toward this sort of thing, picking on puppies and smaller dogs because they're an easy target. So while that dog certainly has issues, at least she does have good bite inhibition. Glad no one was hurt!!


Agreed, I was hoping someone would comment like this. I see tons of dogs do it myself, especially to my pup at dayplay. She wiggles around like a weirdo and then gets "attacked", but there is never a scratch on her. It seems much more like a display of dominance and putting the pup in her place than a "mauling". Either way, I'm glad she's ok, and I'd avoid dog parks for a while until she's developed socially and can defend herself and react properly. Definitely set up puppy play dates until then


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I really am sorry this happened. Been there despite all the precautions and have a female who has always been a bit edgy around other dogs after she was jumped by a bloodhound who had to be kicked in the head with a heavy boot to daze her enough to pull her off of my own dog.

We had a disucssion about that at SAR training today after a teammate asked a question about his 6 month old pup (dogs playing or not) and have a majority view (but not consensus) - none, nada, nyet - let the puppies meet GOOD adult dogs who have no interest in play but know how to be adult dogs and how to correct an impudent youngster without causing any damage. And those dogs know the difference between a puppy and a young adult. It is swift, to the point, and does not scar the puppy - obviously that was NOT what you encountered. Even my own dogs do not play with one another (as much as Beau would *like* to play with Cyra..the expectation is peaceful co-existence and I am up at 530 every morning chucking balls to each one separately - though we do go on walks together-and I prevent any roughousing)

It was not my original view; I used to support puppy play time but after acquiring a dog as a young adult who had been raised as a working dog and seeing other dogs raised without puppy play time after leaving the litter-I am convinced it is the way to go. Teammate said he saw negative changes after watching the adult littermate of his dog and letting them play together. Even though it was good and nothing happened, it was detrimental to the dogs working around other dogs. We both said to the third person (who has a puppy who is overstimulated by other dogs though social) that we would even raise PETS that way in the future.

I think these dog puppy play things are like "Lord of the Flies" - dogs need adults to keep them in line and know the rules of engagement. So I would be talking with the breeder and find folks (like shutzhund) who know working dogs. Support having dog neutral dogs, and allowing your dog to properly socialize as much with them as possible. 

(And carry a stout stick with you, consider wearing boots - you need to always be on the lookout for other dogs and put yourself between them and your puppy. You also need to be sure that your own fear does not telegraph down the lead to scare your puppy. 

Sometimes the puppy recovers from an emotional assualt more than the owner and it is the owner who tightens up on the lead or gets nervous around other dogs. You need the good experiences as much as she does.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I am in TOTAL agreement with Nancy's post! 

And maybe that white dog was trying to prove something, but shaking her like a rag doll IS DOWNRIGHT being NASTY .. If you had not stopped it, how far do you think it would have gone?? I"m betting it would have gone until that white dog drew blood..

Getting her around calm older dogs is an excellent idea, and I'd be looking for a 'white' dog to work with.

I don't care if dogs can't see color, Masi was mauled a few times by a rude out of control golden retriever, guess what, she HATES golden retrievers..color /breed I don't know, but that girl has a memory like an elephant, and she has not forgotten..

I'm glad Kira is ok, I woulda had a heart attack and been soooooooo peeved


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I'm sorry you had to experience this but glad the pup is okay. Even though I helped raise funds for our local dog park, I don't take my dogs there. Pyrate is not in good orthopedic health and couldn't take the running and jumping and Raina doesn't play well with dogs she doesn't know. Make sure your pup has lots of positive play experiences soon so it will override the memory. It is good that the white shepherd had good bite inhibition or it could have been so much worse. Things like this and the sounds that go with it are terrifying for everyone so try not to let your nerves travel down the leash ahead of time the next time you see a dog coming toward you. :wild:


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Nothing to add other than to start carrying around mace or dog deterrent spray when you go to these type of places. That dog could have easily been stopped in his tracks before even getting a chance to touch your puppy.

Personally, I have no problem spraying a dog charging my puppy (if i had one) with some mace.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> Teammate said he saw negative changes after watching the adult littermate of his dog and letting them play together. Even though it was good and nothing happened, it was detrimental to the dogs working around other dogs.


I really think this would depend more on the individual dog than anything else--some are overstimulated by other dogs if they have NOT had a chance to socialize and play with other dogs. 

Some dogs will naturally have more of an affinity with their handler than they do with other dogs. When I took Vinca to puppy classes, it was sometimes difficult to get her attention *away* from me to go play, which is a good thing, as I see it. So allowing a puppy to play with other puppies is not necessarily going to turn it into a dog-focused play monster. If a puppy happens to be the type that is overly dog-focused, then I can see how puppy playtime could be counterproductive to the relationship with the handler if they would need to be working around other dogs. In that scenario, it's good for them to be around adult dogs that will correct solicitous behavior without hurting the pup.

In my puppy socialization class, we would sneak in exercises like attention and recall, which in effect teaches the puppy that no matter how fun other puppies are, the handler is always going to be more rewarding. It's a precursor to obedience under distraction.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I spoke to the other owners afterward, and they all agreed that the white GSD had been at that park since he was a puppy, and NEVER showed aggression towards any other dog or pup. The people at that park, are part of a group of owners that meet there every Saturday and Sunday mornings. These people are dedicated dog owners, and I honestly feel that something went terribly away from the ordinary.

FWIW, for those that didn't read the while thread, I WAS avoiding the park. I don't take her there, but I have to walk through there to get o the beach. I waiting until the 9am curfew for off leash dogs. Apparently someone pushed the rule to 9:15

Like MsVette mentioned, ... it could have been a lot worse. 

After today, I was thinking that maybe I should contact the breeder, and get Kira into Shutzhund training. Her breeder is very active in Shutzhund training and competition, and is currently competing in the VA Seiger. Kira's Sire is a 2011 Seiger world winner, and her mother is National Seiger winner 2009. I was thinking that maybe getting involved in what she was bred for, might be a nice way for her to socialize with stable dogs, with a neutral interest.

Here's the park bully.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I wanted to add that after Kira was inspected for injuries, and the situation was under control, Kira wanted to get out of the truck, and go mingle. All the dogs were leashed, and I allowed her to wander on her leash wherever she felt comfortable. I felt it was a big step in overcoming what just took place.
At that moment, I requested the owner of the white GSD restrain him, while I see if Kira would walk past him, without being afraid. I allowed Kira to walk by the other dog. She didn't exhibit the fear I expected, so I cut the day off at that point.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

don't think the white dog looks all that trustworthy.
is he sitting on his tail or is that just the tricks of the shading?
don't like the eyes , eye contact or lack of . (shifty)
ears look too red , maybe some inflammation.

sorry you had that experience 

wonder what you would see if you revisited that park around the same time, as in would the white dog be running off lead again.

maybe this dog is used to going to the dog park with the same group of people and their dogs and within that group this white dog is the underdog , along comes your pup and finally here is a victim that he can bully instead of being bullied.

just some thoughts

Carmen


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

One of the inherent problems with dogs (and thus, congregating dogs, like at dog parks) is that they read body language and respond constantly. It's quite fascinating, and there's books about it, and all kinds of studies.
Who knows what went through the white GSDs mind (if anything LOL), it could have been an aura or "attitude" she perceived the puppy to be having at that moment. Or it could be simply body language, and your puppy's outgrowing her "puppy license". 

I know some females are extremely intolerant of puppies, and if the white GSD is getting older, that could be getting worse. It sounds like it's really time for her owner to stop letting her offleash around other dogs before she becomes a liability.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Anthony8858 said:


> Kira is just under 4 months. She's always around dogs and people, and never had an issue.
> The other dog attacked her out of nowhere


Doesn't sound like the other dog had anything real bad in mind if after all that pinning and growling there were (Fortunately!) no bites to your puppy.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

carmspack said:


> ....ears look too red , maybe some inflammation.............
> 
> *maybe this dog is used to going to the dog park with the same group of people and their dogs and within that group this white dog is the underdog *, along comes your pup and finally here is a victim that he can bully instead of being bullied.
> 
> Carmen


The ears look terrible. Hard to say from a pic and wierd shading and such, but they look awful. 

Your pup could have offset the "balance" so to speak. Sorry you had that experience. Interesting that the other owners say she was so normally well behaved. Have other pups come in and received a similar result?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I had a female long ago, when I was just beginning, who could draw attack as a pup. She got it once from the instructors Dal in class. I was very upset and learned my lesson about play time groups! She never really got over a special despise for those with spots! As she grew up, she was quite the bitch and carried a lot of attitude. I was inexperienced and didn't realize, but she still sent the vibes to others even in puppyhood.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> First off - I would have no problems with kicking the attacking dog....and yelling NO NO NO at him! The owner needs to be kicked pretty soundly as well....if the dog will attack smaller dogs - and even PUPPIES!!!!!!!! - he has no business letting the dog off a leash AT ALL ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRR I HATE DOG PARKS!!!!!!! They are full of idiots and delusional la la land minded people....!!!!
> 
> Continue to socialize her with other SAFE dogs - particularly if you can find white ones!!! I am not a big fan of dogs "needing" dog playtime...but in this case - to avoid dog specific fear aggression, it is something that should be done ....
> 
> ...


First of all, I totally agree with this statement. 
Secondly, I'm very glad to hear that she wasn't injured. I'd still check her for punctures as sometimes the blood won't come up right away.

This didn't sound like a dog on dog correction of a puppy, this sounded just like what was written. An attack and attempted mauling. The shaking is a killing move, not play or correction. 

Lee's first statement brought my train of thought around:
MANAGE YOUR DOG OR I WILL and I have when an owners wasn't watching their dog, (cell phone...go figure) and it put it's head over Alice's shoulders gauging her and then started hard growling....that lab met my knee in it's ribs pretty hard and got backed away. I have ran right into a malamute with my knee for doing exactly the same thing this white GSD did pinning a smaller dog and shaking it. Neither was even my dog, the malamute's owner was fifty yards away and brought an intact in heat female to a dog park (???????insert profanity here) I was leaving when this dog launched on a smaller dog.

And, you may not like my tactics if your dog is attacking a puppy. It isn't the sunshine all the time positive cookies and light method. Especially if a dog is intending to cause harm to a smaller dog.

I'd be fighting for calm when dealing with the owner of this dog.


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