# Clicker training



## Breitbach343 (Aug 30, 2013)

We have a 3 year old Great Dane and ive been clicker training for a while and it seems to work flawlessly. I went to buy an electric nail trimmer due to the thickness of Dane's nails and i started talking to a trainer. (petsmart) about clicker training and she said to not use it for the GSD were getting this November. She said using your voice is better for training. Is this true? what do you use for training?


----------



## Karla (Dec 14, 2010)

I don't know how people come up with this stuff. I've used a clicker to train all new behaviors and find it a very helpful tool. Once I teach the behavior, I use a verbal marker, i.e "yes".

There are a lot of people on this forum who use a clicker. 

Good luck with your new pup!


----------



## tropicalsun (Jun 7, 2011)

Petsmart seems to attract trainers with "interesting" opinions. Clickers are a great way to train your dog. Go ahead and use it.


----------



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Not only is it a silly opinion that you can't use clicker training for a GSD, it's absolutely unsound scientifically speaking. When using a verbal marker the dog utilizes the verbal parts of their brain that analyzes tone, amplitude, word recognition, etc. This takes a lot of time. When using a clicker, the sound of the click does not enter the verbal regions of the brain. There is no tone or word recognition processing. The marked behavior is recognized as a marked behavior significantly faster when using a clicker as a marker vs verbal marking.

http://www.clickertraining.com/files/Wood_Lindsay_CLICKER_BRIDGING_STIMULUS_EFFICACY.pdf
"There was a decrease of over 1/3 in training time and number of required reinforcements
for the clicker as compared to the verbal condition group. The clicker trained dogs achieved
behavior acquisition in significantly (p < .05) fewer minutes and required significantly fewer
primary reinforcements than verbal condition dogs. The difference in effectiveness of the two
bridging stimuli was most apparent at the onset of each new task component. It appears that use
of the clicker, by providing a more precise marker than a verbal bridging stimulus, is responsible
for superior acquisition of complex behaviors such as that studied here."

Here is Karen Pryor hypothesizing about the amygdala recognition vs verbal cortex: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/226


----------



## MilesNY (Aug 12, 2010)

wildo said:


> Not only is it a silly opinion that you can't use clicker training for a GSD, it's absolutely unsound scientifically speaking. When using a verbal marker the dog utilizes the verbal parts of their brain that analyzes tone, amplitude, word recognition, etc. This takes a lot of time. When using a clicker, the sound of the click does not enter the verbal regions of the brain. There is no tone or word recognition processing. The marked behavior is recognized as a marked behavior significantly faster when using a clicker as a marker vs verbal marking.
> 
> http://www.clickertraining.com/files/Wood_Lindsay_CLICKER_BRIDGING_STIMULUS_EFFICACY.pdf
> "There was a decrease of over 1/3 in training time and number of required reinforcements
> ...


Wow! Thanks for that Willy! I always wondered why since I always use the clicker to shape new behaviors then use verbal after it is known simply because I always found the clicker faster and clearer to the dog. That is great there is an actual reason.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MilesNY said:


> Wow! Thanks for that Willy! I always wondered why since I always use the clicker to shape new behaviors then use verbal after it is known simply because I always found the clicker faster and clearer to the dog. That is great there is an actual reason.


After you quoted that I posted the link to Karen Pryor's website where she lays out her hypothesis as to how the brain is working. However, that article was written in 2001 and I'm positive I've read an actual scientific study that proved out her hypothesis. I've had a hard time finding it. It put actual numbers on the response time- and the numbers were significant!! I'll totally make them up, but it was something like via verbal: 300ms; via clicker: 50ms. Again, I'm making up those numbers, but I'm confident I've found some study that indicated such significant reducer of response time.


----------



## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I know the study you're referencing; I've seen it too. I thought this link might have been it (or at least discussed it), but upon reviewing it, nope, not what I was thinking of. Still, it mentions the same thing, so I'll post the link anyhow: http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/are-clicks-better-markers-than-words


----------



## kjdreyer (Feb 7, 2013)

In the Michael Ellis video "The Power of Training Your Dog With Food", Ed Frawley explains why he uses a marker word instead of a clicker - later on in competitions, there's no chance of your dog mistaking your voice, but various clickers going may be confusing. Maybe the trainer took that and ran with it! I realized about a 2 months ago I marker trained Jedda to "GOOD gir!" when I saw her look at my hand when I said it! So we're sticking with that, trying to be consistent! Good luck!


----------



## MilesNY (Aug 12, 2010)

kjdreyer said:


> In the Michael Ellis video "The Power of Training Your Dog With Food", Ed Frawley explains why he uses a marker word instead of a clicker - later on in competitions, there's no chance of your dog mistaking your voice, but various clickers going may be confusing. Maybe the trainer took that and ran with it! I realized about a 2 months ago I marker trained Jedda to "GOOD gir!" when I saw her look at my hand when I said it! So we're sticking with that, trying to be consistent! Good luck!


While I follow Michael Ellis, in fact my puppy is with Lindsey Sommer while I deploy, I don't see this as entirely accurate. I do not use the clicker past shaping a new behavior, I use a marker word once command is know and understood. Also I have been is classes with 8 other people all clicker training yet my puppy never responds to any other clicker but mine so I don't really see the issue with outside nose sounding like a clicker. 

Good luck with your pup! I have trained many dogs with just marker words, both method work extremely well compared with other training systems! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Breitbach343 said:


> She said using your voice is better for training. Is this true?


No. Some people prefer to use a verbal marker, some prefer to use a clicker, and some (me!) use both. Marker training is great either way, and if you're already using a clicker there's no reason not to use it with your new dog.


----------



## shawk2424 (Feb 6, 2013)

I tried the clicker method and found that it was just too much for me to hold the clicker, lead and treats at the same time when working with my Shepherd. Voice markers work best for me.


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

When learning to use the clicker it takes a bit of time to manage holding the leash, clicker, and treats but it is worth it. I put the clicker on a stretchy band used for keys by some and hang it on my wrist where it falls exactly into my hand where it needs to be to click. I do clicker train as well as voice command. I use the clicker to train new behaviors to exactly mark the behavior I want and move to voice rewards after she "gets it" down what behavior I'm wanting. I like the clicker because you can mark the exact moment of the behavior you want. I've been in classes with people clicking and treating their dogs in the same area and it doesn't really seem to affect the dog I'm working with as they seem to focus more on me than other people clicking around them. I'm puzzled as to why a person would think you should not use the clicker on a GSD - I'm on my forth one with a clicker not to mention many others I have helped in class as an aide. Mainly, use what works best for your particular dog.


----------



## Okin (Feb 27, 2013)

I prefer to use both. Your dog will really react to your voice a lot but they will learn that the click marks a good behaviour really fast also. I'm shocked at the training club how many people don't talk to their dogs. I like the clicker because it quickly marks the behaviour that you like, but I like to stay in communication with my dog I find she is much more reactive when I am talking to her. Praise does wonders, treats can do wonder so can balls or toys etc. They each have their place. There is no right or wrong way .. except not training then expecting them to do what you want 

Everyone has their own opinions on what works I believe click, communicate verbally, hand signals, treats, praise and some correction all have their important place in training.


----------



## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

marker training works, who cares how you do it? I mean really, I don't like to fumble with a clicker. So far it hasn't prevented me from training anything  I can hypothesize about why this way is better or that way will be detrimental down the road, but seriously, dog training is timing and consistency. Get those parts down and you'll have most of your problems taken care of


----------



## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I use either a verbal marker or clicker depending on the situation, but I do prefer the clicker hands down. Simple, easy, and highly effective and I've used it with many breeds


----------



## Breitbach343 (Aug 30, 2013)

tropicalsun said:


> Petsmart seems to attract trainers with "interesting" opinions. Clickers are a great way to train your dog. Go ahead and use it.


 Yeah thats what i was thinking but i wanted to double check before i comepletely dismiss it.



Karla said:


> I don't know how people come up with this stuff. I've used a clicker to train all new behaviors and find it a very helpful tool. Once I teach the behavior, I use a verbal marker, i.e "yes".
> 
> There are a lot of people on this forum who use a clicker.
> 
> Good luck with your new pup!


Thats a good idea to use the clicker to teach and switch to verbal once the behavior is learned.



wildo said:


> Not only is it a silly opinion that you can't use clicker training for a GSD, it's absolutely unsound scientifically speaking. When using a verbal marker the dog utilizes the verbal parts of their brain that analyzes tone, amplitude, word recognition, etc. This takes a lot of time. When using a clicker, the sound of the click does not enter the verbal regions of the brain. There is no tone or word recognition processing. The marked behavior is recognized as a marked behavior significantly faster when using a clicker as a marker vs verbal marking.
> 
> http://www.clickertraining.com/files/Wood_Lindsay_CLICKER_BRIDGING_STIMULUS_EFFICACY.pdf
> "There was a decrease of over 1/3 in training time and number of required reinforcements
> ...


Thanks for that!! A lot of really good info and i like that you broke down how the dogs brain recognizes verbal commands vs a clicker.


----------

