# Dumbfounded.



## marinehoney (Feb 5, 2012)

Rogue bit my son today. Her and Thor were playing next to the kitchen counter, I was standing there watching, drinking a Pepsi, and my son ran over giggling and holding his arms out. He started tickling(petting) Rogue which he *always* does and Rogue usually rolls onto her belly. This time she turned into him and put her mouth around his upper arm!! He jerked his arm out of her mouth and it left scratches/whelts/bruises on his upper arm. The second she did it I gasped and shrieked at her and almost knocked her silly. She ducked and her ears went flat and she squinted her eyes and I stomped over and opened the back door and told her OUT! She lowcrawled over to the door and out peeing the whole time on the carpet. Thor just sat and watched. 
My son just ran away and started doing something else, she didnt hurt him or scare him but she left marks on his arm. 

Why did she suddenly do this? Was this aggression, fear, insecurity? She is in training daily and socialized and she is the one who does the absolute best with my son. Was she sorry for doing it? Her reaction to my reaction seemed like she knew she did something wrong. Ironically I just posted about this earlier! 
What do I do and how do I process this? She is just sitting outside until I can get a grip on what my next move should be.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Was she in play mode from playing with Thor and just had a brain lapse and forgot your son is a human child, and not a dog? Did she snarl at him or just put her mouth on him?

ETA: you said she turned into him which makes it seem like an accident...I hope that's all it was. Sometimes when jackson is all revved up he mouths at my son too so I always have to supervise them when they're together. They're play buddies but sometimes Jackson forgets he needs to be GENTLE and no nipping is allowed..how old is she?


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## marinehoney (Feb 5, 2012)

She is 11 months. She did not snarl/bark/growl...nothing. She seemed so shocked at my reaction too which made me think she didnt mean to. Her an Thor were playing and it very well could have been a mistake but how do I correct this? I was standing right there and watched everything happen. My son is autistic and does not always know how to be with the dogs, which is why theyre never left alone together.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

It very well could have been that your son simply surprised her while she was in play mode with Thor. He grabbed at her and she carried "dog play" over to him. If your son was able to pull him arm out of her mouth without breaking the skin or anything, that makes it sound like she was mouthing him rather than actually biting him. Also, her reaction was more likely to your sudden rage than because she knew she did something wrong. 

I still wouldn't take this lightly and monitor their interactions even more closely from now on. I don't have any experience in dealing with autistic children so I'm not sure how much self control you can teach your son around the dogs but maybe this is the time to continue to reinforce how to treat the dogs? Not surprising them and whatnot? And not sure how quickly it happened but you may just have to be more proactive in stopping your son before he has the chance to suprise them, especially when they're playing. 

I'm not sure that reads exactly how I meant it... I mean nothing bad against you or your son, just some of the ideas that came to mind


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## marinehoney (Feb 5, 2012)

He runs up to her like that a lot. She loves it and usually rolls to her belly and plays with him. he has done it before while they were playing, when he sees them getting that way is when he runs in and wants to play too, this is the very first time ever that this has happened though. I will DEFINITLY be making sure that when they are playing, he doesnt run up to them like that because now I know what can happen. I dont think she was being aggressive but momma bear definitly came pouring out of me. ii feel bad for reacting so strongly but i had to in a situation like that one.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

marinehoney said:


> He runs up to her like that a lot. She loves it and usually rolls to her belly and plays with him. he has done it before while they were playing, when he sees them getting that way is when he runs in and wants to play too, this is the very first time ever that this has happened though. I will DEFINITLY be making sure that when they are playing, he doesnt run up to them like that because now I know what can happen. I dont think she was being aggressive but momma bear definitly came pouring out of me. ii feel bad for reacting so strongly but i had to in a situation like that one.


I think any mother would have done the same thing


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Maybe your girl was not feeling well today, we can't all have good days every day.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I guess I would try to teach them that rough play is for outside, not inside. This sounds like an accident. But they can learn that they can run and bounce and play outside, but inside they need to settle. Then let your son outside with only one dog at a time so there is no question about whether there is super high energy dog playing or not. 

I am certainly not an expert on this stuff, and I am just throwing that out as a possibility. She is yet a puppy, though old enough to know better if this was one on one with the kid. But being ramped up by another dog, that is hard to be completely contained all the time. I think if she was turning aggressively on your child deliberately, he would have a bloody wound.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Sounds like an accident, and with your reaction and the dog's reaction I don't think it will happen again. Not saying that either of your reactions were good, but if it doesn't happen again that's all that is important.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Sounds like it was play. If it were aggression (active or fear), you would have been to the ER for stitches. My dog will do this same thing with me but I love to play with him like that. Only I and my boyfriend play rough with him and if he gets too hard, we stop immediately. He's been great about it for the past few years but that's just how we play. Renji has no qualms with kids but I don't allow close interactions for that very reason- he will play rough!

I agree with Cliff. After this reaction, you probably have nothing to worry about. Teach both dog kids and skin kids how to play gently and interact. I don't know how old your son is but maybe you can teach him to do some obedience with Rogue? Like a simple hand signal to sit or down and then your son can treat/pet. The goal is to replace one behavior (running up squealing) with another behavior (doing grown-up things like asking the dog to sit). 

I went back and read and saw your son is autistic. Still, teaching your son to give commands to Rogue might be more helpful than "don't do that." LOTS more careful supervision is required as well. In any case, you have done a GREAT job with Rogue; whether she reacted from play or fear, she knew darn well not to clamp down and didn't cause any damage. 

If it was play, maybe you can teach Rogue to grab a toy to keep in her mouth when playing? This is something Renji does; if I want to play with him or pet him, he will go running for a toy and keep it in his mouth. He chews and glomps and crushes and crunches but always the toy (unless I instigate the roughhouse play  )


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Does not sound like a bite to me, really. Dogs playing and little children then in the mix could be the issue. We have lots of marks on us here from rowdiness, not aggression. It happens. 

I am not wanting to sound like a lecturer or any thing. So not sure how to put it, but I did not mix dogs and small children "ad lib", so to speak. Dog being absolutely normal can be tough on lil ' ones.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I also agree that it wasn't aggression. I think your female was just in rough play mode and did a very good job at not using the same 'mouth' on your son as she does her other play mate. I think she was just trying to include you son in the game. 

I also agree that it might be a good idea to keep rough games between the dogs away from your son. Hec, when my dogs play rough together I stay away! 

I think we are all hyper aware of all the 'what if's' and I certainly don't blame you for your reaction.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

marinehoney said:


> Rogue bit my son today. Her and Thor were playing next to the kitchen counter, I was standing there watching, drinking a Pepsi, and my son ran over giggling and holding his arms out. He started tickling(petting) Rogue which he *always* does and Rogue usually rolls onto her belly. This time she turned into him and put her mouth around his upper arm!! *He jerked his arm out of her mouth and* it left scratches/whelts/bruises on his upper arm. The second she did it I gasped and shrieked at her and almost knocked her silly. She ducked and her ears went flat and she squinted her eyes and I stomped over and opened the back door and told her OUT! She lowcrawled over to the door and out peeing the whole time on the carpet. Thor just sat and watched.
> My son just ran away and started doing something else, she didnt hurt him or scare him but she left marks on his arm.
> 
> Why did she suddenly do this? Was this aggression, fear, insecurity? She is in training daily and socialized and she is the one who does the absolute best with my son. Was she sorry for doing it? Her reaction to my reaction seemed like she knew she did something wrong. Ironically I just posted about this earlier!
> What do I do and how do I process this? She is just sitting outside until I can get a grip on what my next move should be.


 
Sounds like the red text is the key!

I wouldn't worry about it except maybe caution your son not to try to get involved if the dogs are playing rough!


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## dogsnkiddos (Jul 22, 2008)

I am always surprised when my kids think about getting in on the rough play action. I sure as heck don't want to- we have always insisted rough play is an outside game. We have the new dog and as soon as he gets rough I hustle him right on out the door so he can't inadvertently hurt me. When I see the kids headed for the action I find myself using the warning sound I use when the dogs start to make the wrong choice. It seems I don't always distinguish between dog and child training . Nonetheless, all of us have at one time or another gotten caught up in the rough play action. We have been mouthed which is what it sounds like happened to your son. Our older dogs all got to the point where human skin resulted in a gag reflex. Beast would grab and hold and use the mouth as hand....he never quite got to the "ack human skin is akin to poison" reaction, but it was never aggression. This new one still has a long way to go to learn the appropriate inhibition, but it still is not aggression. One of the things we have tried to teach the kids (for dog mouthing-not biting- and even cats swatting/scratching- is to not pull away. The pull seems to cause the damage.)

It really sounds from your description Rogue was just trying to play with your son. She used her mouth to grab him and not bite. It does not sound like real aggression. I would work on teaching the kid not to join in the rough housing. I would work on teaching the dogs to play rough outside....and that human flesh is an instant release. We try to work on that anytime the new one even brushes our skin. We spent about 30 minutes tonight specifically setting him up to encounter our fleshy parts and then react as we wanted. He is getting it. Yours will too.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I agree with the indoor/outdoor play suggestion posted earlier. Since we got pregnant with our son (who is now a toddler) we stopped allowing the dogs to wrestle and in general, group play, inside the house. We have a nice big fenced yard for that and if they start getting playful we make them take it outside. As a rule of thumb, we don't have more than one dog at a time interacting with our son.

We have four dogs, so we rotate a lot. We keep baby gates up, not for our son, but for the dogs. One will jump the gate when she wants a break from him, the other just goes and stands by it and that's her signal to us that she wants to go to the other side. the boys (95 lb GSD and malinois) don't really hang out in the room with him, mostly just because the male GSD is just too big and doesn't have the understanding of his size as the other smaller shepherds do, and the malinois likes our son but is just too energetic to really play with him in the room much.

I would not be allowing your son to run up and "tickle" the dogs, and I do spend time around autistic children so I know how hard it will be to teach him this. But he needs to learn that a dog isn't a human, and the dogs need to learn to roughhouse outside so accidents like this don't happen. From your description, it sounds like a case of an excited dog mouthing before looking. But it's hard telling without having been there. I do understand your mama bear, I would knock mine silly if they placed their teeth on my son, so I am VERY careful about interactions between them.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't see this as an intentional bite to inflict pain.

I think she mouthed him he pulled his arm out, got scratched, she could have really nailed him if that was her intent which I don't think it was.

Mine can be "mouthy",,it's rough play sometimes just 'mouthy'

Glad your son could have cared less))


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## marinehoney (Feb 5, 2012)

When I am training the dogs to only play rough outside (which will be held off for a really long time now due to rogues leg) should i just usher them back outside whenever they start getting really playful in the house?


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I usher mine out if it's convenient, (IE if we're not getting ready to leave or something, or pouring rain , that sort of thing) but otherwise just tell them to calm down, and seperate if needed for a little bit till things calm down. They learn pretty fast if you are consistant.


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