# Just not what i expected



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Maybe my standards are too high, maybe I expect too much. But it's just not what I expect from advanced obedience training. 

It's more Rally than Obedience, really.

What I miss is focus, engagement, OOOMPH. It's so slow 

The thing is that Indra is way beyond what they are doing. Those dogs don't even know how to stay but it's definitely good to learn about rally and working her through the distractions. While she's beyond them, she was totally distracted. 

At the end of the training, we were sitting in a group. Indra was totally relaxed. And than a small black dog snapped at her and she snapped back. Nothing happened, but guess which dog was labeled as aggressive.... just great....


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

oh geez. I'm sorry it wasnt what you were expecting. Thats lousy! I know you were looking forward to it! What a let down. And the fact the little dog started something and Indra got blamed is ignorant. That bites too.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah, it's still on a very basic level. Since she was distracted by the new environment it's probably not that bad that we continue. That way she gets at least to work through the distraction level. I asked the trainer if she'd do one on one training, she first said no but I was able to convince her to work with her before the basic obedience class starts, that way we get to do at least a little bit outside the group. 

Yeah, she was completely relaxed, laying on the floor, didn't even care about the other dogs and than that little black dog turned around and snapped. And then one of the ladys said to turn her around and break her focus from the dog. She wasn't even looking at him, she didn't care about that dog. 
And later on, the trainer said she wouldn't know how to work out aggression. 

I told her that she was just laying there. 
Oh well, maybe next week will be better.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

fingers crossed next week is better!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I often take a dog back through basic or continue with the in advanced even if they are beyond it. This is my chance to clean things up a little. And when they are working on things, I will shake it up and do a few things of my own. Like I will slip the lead off and do it all advanced rally, while we advance the line to do things individually, I will turn and practice the SLIDE or halt sidestep right halt Advanced/Excellent sign. I can also practice stationary exercises, Sit Down Stand. Sit, Call to Front, Finish right or left.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

"And later on, the trainer said she wouldn't know how to work out aggression."

Sounds like a heck of a trainer!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

doesn't sound like a very experienced trainer to me

Is this trainer experienced in competing in Obedience? I find if you want to go to competition level obedience, it's a MUST to have a trainer who has competed to the level you wish to go. If not, most trainers out there now are 'pet people' trainers who are teaching basics and socialization skills


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Well, they certainly made it sound like they are experienced. I guess they don't strive for more than the pet level. None worked with a toy so I felt like I am completely disruptive when I rewarded Indra with the ball. I also broke out of the group because it just did not make any sense, since she was distracted by the dogs. So I went to the side and worked on engagement. I don't think they've ever seen any of that before.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I think I found a good solution. 

I am going to take Yukon to the Obedience/Ralley training and take Indra to the Ringsport Club down in Syracuse. That'll work, that way I didn't waste my money. I wanted to do Rally with Yukon anyways


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Where are you located? There HAS to be better training available! 

Have you done an online search to see if the trainer has actually done competition? Amazing what you can find on the internet


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

DunRingill said:


> Where are you located? There HAS to be better training available!
> 
> Have you done an online search to see if the trainer has actually done competition? Amazing what you can find on the internet


Yes, trust me, there is nothing around in Watertown. 

There is a Schutzhund Club in Albany, I LOVE that club but I can only do training during the week since the weekend is packed with SAR Training. So a four hour drive (each way) during the week is impossible.

Than there is Debbie Zappia, she's about two to three hours away and the Ring Sport Working Dog Club in Syracuse which I am going to check out tonight. And I have high hopes for that one.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Mrs.K said:


> Than there is Debbie Zappia, she's about two to three hours away and the Ring Sport Working Dog Club in Syracuse which I am going to check out tonight. And I have high hopes for that one.


ohhh the good obedience people I know are near Debbie Zappia....a bit too far for regular training! I know where Watertown is, you're a bit north of most of the trainers I know in Upstate NY. Hope the Ring Sport club works out!

DOTCORNY is supposed to be a very good club, but that's probably a good 2 hours away. Good place to show tho! Ulf Kintzel (herding) is up that way too, about 2 hours south of you.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

DunRingill said:


> ohhh the good obedience people I know are near Debbie Zappia....a bit too far for regular training! I know where Watertown is, you're a bit north of most of the trainers I know in Upstate NY. Hope the Ring Sport club works out!
> 
> DOTCORNY is supposed to be a very good club, but that's probably a good 2 hours away. Good place to show tho! Ulf Kintzel (herding) is up that way too, about 2 hours south of you.


I know, I am too far from everything, that's our problem LOL. 

The Ringsport Club sounds and looks very promising, at least from what I saw from their facebook. The trainer called today to verify if I come out and I really think we can help each other. Plus, they are reasonable with the club fee. A 120 Dollars for half a year is not too bad compared to some other clubs.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Just a thought...

If your dog is still really distracted, is she really way beyond the class? I think once you have experience as a trainer, classes aren't so much about the "how to" as it is for the environment. If your dog has to be pulled away from the group because she is distracted, then she isn't past that level even if she understands your commands.

Also, I think it is good to remember that obedience classes are for all breeds. If someone isn't experienced with GSDs, doesn't mean they aren't a good trainer for the class they are teaching. At least she admitted that she didn't know about aggression. If she is used to other breeds that should NOT have natural aggression, she may not understand Indra's reaction.

As for the ball, most classes I have attended do not allow toy work for just the reason you mentioned. It is too distracting to the other dogs in that proximity. Have you concidered using food for this class?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah she is beyond the class. She was distracted at first but once I had her attention, she worked just fine. I was expecting too much because it's called "advanced" I am looking for a trainer that can give us a polish and works with us on precision. They don't even care about focus or engagement. It's slow-motion, no drive, no engagement... more like sleepwalking and I can't do that with her. I WANT the drive, I WANT the prescision, I WANT the focus. 

For training, food doesn't work with her. If I can't use the toy reward, it's the wrong class for us.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My trainer has dogs that they have gone up through Utility with. UD, maybe even UDX, but I am not sure of that. 

Anyhow, what she has to work with out here are pet people. The best of the best out here, are our Thursday late class. We have a pair of older ladies that take their dogs to trials together -- they are mostly obedience trainers, golden retriever and doberman. Bev has gotten her Doberman an RE. Melissa has not titled her Corgi yet, but he is the therapy dog, in a reading program. Sue has Matilda through RN. She has gone through obedience titling years ago, and is now doing rally with my pup and her min pin. Suzie has a Jack Russel and a pittie, she is there just to keep him busy I think. I do not think she has gone for any titles on him, though I think that because he is a Jack, he could not get AKC ILP, but now he can get a an All American dog, not sure. And the lady with the Labs Benny and Toby. She is there not for titles, but to keep the dogs' training up. I have been training with this lady for YEARS and I remember her DOGS' names, but not hers. 

Anyhow. trainers have to give classes to what there is to work with. With our advanced class we do some obedience, some doodling, and then have a rally class, and usually do a sit stay and a down stay. Then we eat. Yeah, we are as much a social group as a obedience group. 

So the trainer offers basic household manners class, and it entails all the elements of a CD, walking nicely on a lead, heel position, finishes, recall, stand for exam. We do not do figure eights, at least not with people, or not often -- we did last week. sit stay, down stay, but the emphasis is not on crisp obedience, it is sort of pet-dog level. She will say, "those of you who want to show, you will want to ...."

Advanced class is similar, but it has better heeling, doodling, advanced rally signs, etc. 

CGC classes focus on each of the ten tests.

Rally classes focus only on rally. 

Puppy classes are more socializing/positive experience pups are controlled -- not puppy free for all. 

Some of the people in the classes are former trainers, and hold their own dog-classes. 

I think we, who have been to many, many classes, are there because this dog we are currently working with, can benefit from this time that we will spend in the presence of other dogs and people. And we learn stuff from the trainer about shows, new stuff, current stuff, and from the other people there, stuff about shows, the personalities, the judges, everything dog.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

We are doing rally-but want to start advanced obedience so I am going to try this place www.dottiesdogschool.com Its in East syracuse


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I did not realize you are so close. Have you been at the working dog club in Syracuse?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I have never gone there-I am going to see if I can go to classes there-so I don't know anything about it-am in the Rochester area


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

There is also the Syracuse obedience training club


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

holland said:


> I have never gone there-I am going to see if I can go to classes there-so I don't know anything about it-am in the Rochester area


Rochester, don't they have a Schutzhund Club close by?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes


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