# Would you use an e-collar on a dog with epilepsy?



## Sarah~

I don't know it this is a health question or a training question. I do know it's probably a dumb question and to me seems like a no brainer but I have my boyfriend and our 3 roommates on my back to look into an e-collar for my younger dog. She was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy last year. It is well controlled with medication, we have had 8 months with no seizures. To me it seems very dangerous to her health but they (bf + roomies) are fed up with her bad behavior and me for not punishing her. I tell them that I never catch her in the act so punishment would be useless, so they want her to wear an e collar to be corrected from a distance. I figured I would come here to ask the experienced people, if nothing else to prove to them I'm not just talking out of my butt or trying to baby her by making up excuses for her not to wear the collar.


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## sehrgutcsg

Sarah,

I feel for two reasons this is a bad idea. Let's begin with Humans. The Electric Convulsive Therapy, ECT is used; TO CAUSE SEIZURES IN THE BRAIN. This is the main function, thus destroying bad memories. Now, your happy, your brain has been fried, to death.. DANGER !!!

With that being said, let's switch to dogs. I am all for E - collars if you and anyone (WHO HAS ACCESS TO THE REMOTE) is specifically trained professionally to use that method. I have a trainer ex-cop who swears they are safe and effective. I do not own one or two of them yet > !

Your roommates are not professionally trained. They don't have a clue how or when to use the E - Collar. The damage is going to be worse then the damage of them being angry and rightly so, your not doing enough to curb the issues they are complaining about, severe or not. If you can't correct the animals bad habits and correct them yourself, asking them to do so will undermine everything you've do thus far correctly.

Just give your roommates a live grenade and when the dog barks excessively, throw it at the dog. This is a joke !! Don't do this. I am trying to make a point.

Move and live alone !!!!


SGCSG


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## Sarah~

sehrgutcsg said:


> Sarah,
> 
> I feel for two reasons this is a bad idea. Let's begin with Humans. The Electric Convulsive Therapy, ECT is used; TO CAUSE SEIZURES IN THE BRAIN. This is the main function, thus destroying bad memories. Now, your happy, your brain has been fried, to death.. DANGER !!!
> 
> With that being said, let's switch to dogs. I am all for E - collars if you and anyone (WHO HAS ACCESS TO THE REMOTE) is specifically trained professionally to use that method. I have a trainer ex-cop who swears they are safe and effective. I do not own one or two of them yet > !
> 
> Your roommates are not professionally trained. They don't have a clue how or when to use the E - Collar. The damage is going to be worse then the damage of them being angry and rightly so, your not doing enough to curb the issues they are complaining about, severe or not. If you can't correct the animals bad habits and correct them yourself, asking them to do so will undermine everything you've do thus far correctly.
> 
> Just give your roommates a live grenade and when the dog barks excessively, throw it at the dog. This is a joke !! Don't do this. I am trying to make a point.
> 
> Move and live alone !!!!
> 
> 
> SGCSG


Yikes, didn't think about ECT. Do you think it has the same effect on dogs?

And no my roommates are not professionally trained, they have never trained any dog before but feel very qualified to tell me how to train mine :/ 

They don't want to zap her, they want ME to. I would never let them do it even if they did because they would probably shock her on a really high level and for a long time because they got upset with her. 

Basically this is all about her stealing food. I clean the counters off every day and constantly remind them to keep an eye on their food or put it away. But there are 5 people in the house and I have a full time job, I don't have eyes in the back of my head and as soon as they set food down and look away she's on it. Even with them standing right there! I say DROP IT and she does, then bolts before my roommates can catch her. They think she needs a spanking and I'm too soft for not doing it. I just don't see the point of chasing her in circles around the house to catch her and spank her well after the actual thing she did that was bad.

She KNOWS it's bad. She gets in trouble for it several times a day and always looks guilty when we look at her with food in her mouth. Sometimes she drops it before I even tell her to. It's to the point Eko even knows she's not allowed and bites the back of her neck gently when she starts to sniff food to redirect her. I put a leash on her to keep her with me but I was yelled at because apparently that's dumb and I shouldn't have to do that. They said if I won't chase her down to punish her then I need an e-collar to get her while she's eating the food to show her it's bad.


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## Galathiel

So how are you supposed to be able to correct this with an e-collar if you are at work? I guess I'm confused. I would say your dog shouldn't have freedom to sneak around the house if you're not there and might need to be confined unless someone is willing to watch her better. This really boils down to lack of management of the environment on your roommates' part. It is self-rewarding to a food hog so of course she continues to do it when people obligingly leave food out for her.


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## NancyJ

She does not really think that far ahead. You could just put her in your bedroom while you are gone and cannot supervise her. Honestly, considering the liability of owning a GSD and the possible things that could go wrong in a houseful of roomates that is what I would do.

Oh, nope, we don't spank dogs. We don't hit dogs. Thank you very much. And she does not know it is bad........she knows that when she is caught with food in her mouth she gets punished. Big difference.


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## NancyJ

Too late to edit but 

I see it is the ABPT - same thing, if you can't supervise the dog directly and have that kind of mentality in the house, put them up while you are gone. You have no control for what happens and all of the accountability if anything does.


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## Magwart

How about installing a baby gate at the kitchen entrance? That's what we did to deter a mischievous blind dog with a penchant for theft -- his nose gets him into trouble, so he doesn't get access to the kitchen. 

Your roomies sound like petulant children. I hope you don't give them an opportunity to abuse your dog and can move someday soon. They sound like dolts for not putting their food away when there's a counter-surfer in the house -- setting the dog up to fail. THEY are reinforcing the dog's behavior and blaming you for not beating or shocking an epileptic dog -- not cool.


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## kiya

Keep your dog in your room when you are not able to supervise her.


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## jafo220

I'm not a qualified animal medical person to answer the question about using the e-collar on a dog that is prone to seizures. In my mind, I would be against it. There are other paths of training that may take longer but can give good results.

As far as the roommate thing. This sounds like a bad situation for this dog. It can be very confusing for the dog when there are multiple people yelling commands at the dog. It doesn't probably know which way is up. Another thing is, know one and I mean know one lays a hand on my dog period. Dog learns absolutely nothing from it. The dog if it's yours is your responsibility to train the dog appropriately. Not the others. Chasing is just a game for the dog too. Let's see, if I steal this food, I get chased and chase equals attention. You need to gain control of your dog, that means the dog needs to be with you. It doesn't let the others off the hook by leaving food laying around within the dogs reach. Dog should be crated when your at work to keep them safe and out of trouble. 

This is just not an optimal situation for this dog compounded by it's medical situation. Get to a trainer and see what can he done.

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## gsdsar

I don't know the answer to your question. I do know the reason you gave is totally inappropriate use of a Ecollar. 




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## Sarah~

Galathiel said:


> So how are you supposed to be able to correct this with an e-collar if you are at work? I guess I'm confused. I would say your dog shouldn't have freedom to sneak around the house if you're not there and might need to be confined unless someone is willing to watch her better. This really boils down to lack of management of the environment on your roommates' part. It is self-rewarding to a food hog so of course she continues to do it when people obligingly leave food out for her.


The reason she's out when I'm not there to watch her is because I work from 11pm to 7am, and I ask my boyfriend to watch her when I have to sleep. If he has to go to work during the day, I crate her when I leave and then let her run around the bedroom while I'm sleeping with Kongs and chew toys. That way she can't steal food. 



jocoyn said:


> She does not really think that far ahead. You could just put her in your bedroom while you are gone and cannot supervise her. Honestly, considering the liability of owning a GSD and the possible things that could go wrong in a houseful of roomates that is what I would do.
> 
> Oh, nope, we don't spank dogs. We don't hit dogs. Thank you very much. And she does not know it is bad........she knows that when she is caught with food in her mouth she gets punished. Big difference.


I don't ever spank her... that's why they're mad. They're saying that you would think after being told no as she's jumping up, while she's on the counter, and after she's stolen the food (caught her doing all three at different times) that she would know it's wrong. 



jocoyn said:


> Too late to edit but
> 
> I see it is the ABPT - same thing, if you can't supervise the dog directly and have that kind of mentality in the house, put them up while you are gone. You have no control for what happens and all of the accountability if anything does.


I agree, and I do. She's not out with my roommates unsupervised ever since she bit one of them hard enough to scratch and bruise the skin. He deserved the bite because he was always intimidating her and trying to run after her to punish her and one day he reached behind me to try and drag her out and she snarled then bit him. It was not reported because it didn't need any medical attention, but it set her back in her training (she is afraid of people) and took a while to get her over it. 



Magwart said:


> How about installing a baby gate at the kitchen entrance? That's what we did to deter a mischievous blind dog with a penchant for theft -- his nose gets him into trouble, so he doesn't get access to the kitchen.
> 
> Your roomies sound like petulant children. I hope you don't give them an opportunity to abuse your dog and can move someday soon. They sound like dolts for not putting their food away when there's a counter-surfer in the house -- setting the dog up to fail. THEY are reinforcing the dog's behavior and blaming you for not beating or shocking an epileptic dog -- not cool.


I am hoping to do that when I get paid after I pay rent, but there are 3 doorways to the kitchen and some are very wide, not sure where to find a gate long enough.

Also, thank you for saying that, I feel like the only sane person in my house. They just don't even consider the fact she has serious medical issues, they told me to put her on a tie out for a few hours outside despite that they KNOW she's had life threatening allergic (face and throat swelling up) reactions to things outside. I would like to move but until I finish school I am stuck here for financial reasons.



jafo220 said:


> I'm not a qualified animal medical person to answer the question about using the e-collar on a dog that is prone to seizures. In my mind, I would be against it. There are other paths of training that may take longer but can give good results.
> 
> As far as the roommate thing. This sounds like a bad situation for this dog. It can be very confusing for the dog when there are multiple people yelling commands at the dog. It doesn't probably know which way is up. Another thing is, know one and I mean know one lays a hand on my dog period. Dog learns absolutely nothing from it. The dog if it's yours is your responsibility to train the dog appropriately. Not the others. Chasing is just a game for the dog too. Let's see, if I steal this food, I get chased and chase equals attention. You need to gain control of your dog, that means the dog needs to be with you. It doesn't let the others off the hook by leaving food laying around within the dogs reach. Dog should be crated when your at work to keep them safe and out of trouble.
> 
> This is just not an optimal situation for this dog compounded by it's medical situation. Get to a trainer and see what can he done.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I have been recommended to a trainer since I posted this and I will be sending them a message after I post this  I agree that only one person should be training the dogs. They both listen to me very well and not my roommates, but when I am trying to command them and they are yelling over me it just stresses the dogs out. 



gsdsar said:


> I don't know the answer to your question. I do know the reason you gave is totally inappropriate use of a Ecollar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I figured this, I am glad everyone agrees with me so I can show them that people with much more experience agree that it is a very bad idea.


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## jafo220

Sarah~ said:


> The reason she's out when I'm not there to watch her is because I work from 11pm to 7am, and I ask my boyfriend to watch her when I have to sleep. If he has to go to work during the day, I crate her when I leave and then let her run around the bedroom while I'm sleeping with Kongs and chew toys. That way she can't steal food.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't ever spank her... that's why they're mad. They're saying that you would think after being told no as she's jumping up, while she's on the counter, and after she's stolen the food (caught her doing all three at different times) that she would know it's wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, and I do. She's not out with my roommates unsupervised ever since she bit one of them hard enough to scratch and bruise the skin. He deserved the bite because he was always intimidating her and trying to run after her to punish her and one day he reached behind me to try and drag her out and she snarled then bit him. It was not reported because it didn't need any medical attention, but it set her back in her training (she is afraid of people) and took a while to get her over it.
> 
> 
> 
> I am hoping to do that when I get paid after I pay rent, but there are 3 doorways to the kitchen and some are very wide, not sure where to find a gate long enough.
> 
> Also, thank you for saying that, I feel like the only sane person in my house. They just don't even consider the fact she has serious medical issues, they told me to put her on a tie out for a few hours outside despite that they KNOW she's had life threatening allergic (face and throat swelling up) reactions to things outside. I would like to move but until I finish school I am stuck here for financial reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been recommended to a trainer since I posted this and I will be sending them a message after I post this  I agree that only one person should be training the dogs. They both listen to me very well and not my roommates, but when I am trying to command them and they are yelling over me it just stresses the dogs out.
> 
> 
> 
> I figured this, I am glad everyone agrees with me so I can show them that people with much more experience agree that it is a very bad idea.


Just and observation, but maybe your roommates need the e-collar more than your dog.:wild:

A 95% of dog training is training the handler. Without that, it's tough. So be open minded and soak it in and work the dog. It'll come.

In the mean while, tell your roommates to clean up after themselves or find another place. Your dog is a friend for life even more after training, roommates ????? not so much. 

Your a heck of an person for keeping and helping this dog with all this craziness around you. Cudo's to you.


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## selzer

I wouldn't use an e-collar on a siezure dog. Sorry. When my parents had a siezure dog, a big part of it was not making the dog over-excited or upset. We finally got my older brother to stop tormenting the dog, because the dog is a siezure dog, and winding them up is a bad idea. 

And I could never bring one of my dogs over -- something Cujo loved. Becuase it would over-stimulate him, and keeping things normal, and calm, meant keeping the seizure condition at bay. 

Using a collar to correct the dog in my opinion might make things worse. 

I wouldn't do it.


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## Chip18

It is just not a good situation. I don't see how you can train a dog if people in the household are undermining you??

My two cents, re home the dog or the roommates! Sorry.


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## Sarah~

Lol I did tell my roomies that they should put on an e collar and try it on themselves before they get too eager about Xena wearing one. I try to stay patient with her but training her is nothing like training my GSD. He used to get into food but now he would never jump on the counter. Xena will jump not only on the kitchen counter but also the dining room table. 

I agree selzer, she should not be stressed out or be shocked, even if it was just really low. That is my biggest concern is preventing any seizures.

Chip, I will be honest, I have regretted getting her in the past but I've grown very attached to her. Not to mention she is a very expensive dog with all of the medicine she has to take every day, twice a day. Plus all of the vet bills to make sure all of that medicine isn't doing any harm to her organs. I really can't rehome her I don't trust anyone to take care of her properly. This is not a very good situation but it's not permanent in any way


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## LouCastle

There is no evidence to suggest that there's any problem with using an Ecollar on a dog that has epilepsy. ECT passes current through the brain of the afflicted person An Ecollar does not do that. 

But Your roommates' suggestion to correct the dog with an Ecollar is a bad one. They should not be leaving food out where the dog can get to it. The failure and ignorance is theirs, not the dogs.


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## Chip18

Sarah~ said:


> .
> 
> Chip, I will be honest, I have regretted getting her in the past but I've grown very attached to her. Not to mention she is a very expensive dog with all of the medicine she has to take every day, twice a day. Plus all of the vet bills to make sure all of that medicine isn't doing any harm to her organs. I really can't rehome her I don't trust anyone to take care of her properly. This is not a very good situation but it's not permanent in any way


Yeah I know and it was not a flip comment.

Sounds like doggy has boat load of issues and it's driving everyone nuts!

But a couple links may prove helpful,this alone might solve a lot of your problems?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGq_5r0DeE

And this post: 19 has a link that explains in detail and post 39 shows what it looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGq_5r0DeE


I think if you can get those done...it will help greatly and no one has to go anywhere! Not sure if that's good or not but hey it won't be about the dog!


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## Sarah~

LouCastle, so have you ever used an e-collar on a dog with this condition? Or known someone who has? I know you have tons of experience with them I was also referred to your website and told I should read up on e-collars  I'm not going to use one on my dog for this situation but I would like to learn more about them just in case I ever really did need one. 

I was told by my vet that seizures can be caused by electrical problems in the brain so the thought of any electricity entering her body made me very nervous.

Chip I know you didn't mean it in a bad way and I can totally understand why you said it  

You are absolutely right Xena has a lot of issues and it drives everyone crazy. I treat her like she's made of glass because of her medical problems and as a result she gets away with far more than she should. 

I like the link you gave! I will work on teaching Xena 'place'. Both links are the same, are the posts you are talking about in the video's comments?


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## Sunflowers

Put the collar on the roommates, zap them really hard if they leave food out.


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## blackshep

I agree, the roommates need the training, not the dog.

I'm not against training with ecollars, but this is a human training issue, not a dog training issue IMO.

You have to set the dog up for success before you can start to correct them.

Good luck with the roommates!


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## Sarah~

Perfect solution Sunflowers! Lol!

I agree blackshep, thank you  

Today I told them I will not buy an e-collar, that I will figure out some way to gate off the kitchen and that's my half of the solution. I said the rest is on them to make sure food is not out for her to steal. Didn't go over very well but they agreed to it.

And then one of my roommates said he's getting a razor's edge... I said what the heck is that? And he said a pit bull. Oh great D:


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## Liesje

I would not use an e-collar, not for the epilepsy thing though, I just don't think it's warranted. For one, you're not home so how would an e-collar help? I would not trust someone else to be correcting my dog, especially that way. I would use management. The roomies could be "trained" to not leave food out, but I also know what it's like to live with a dog that counter surfs. It's not just a matter of leaving stuff around, he will lie in wait and snatch something if you turn your back for half a second. My house is very clean, I'm a very compulsive and obsessively clean person, but he still grabs stuff while we're in the process of preparing or eating. I don't know that I'd expect roommates to have the same level of commitment keeping the food out of reach, so personally I would keep the dog in my room or crated while I'm not home. I actually do this with my own husband when I have a new puppy. The dogs are my thing so I don't expect my dogs to burden him, so I make sure they can't steal stuff or make a mess while I'm not there.


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## Sarah~

Yes Liesje! That's when they get really mad, is when she snatches food from them when they aren't looking for one second. She watches us and waits for the perfect time. Then I say "No! Drop it!" and she slinks off to go wait for someone else to turn their back. I would crate her when we eat, but all of us eat at different times and crating her when I can't supervise or am not home feels like a really long time. I put her on a leash last night to keep her next to me because then the only food stolen would be mine, the roomies said that it feels like I want to keep her away from them. Well no duh!!! I'm trying to keep her away from you while you eat so I don't get yelled at! They can't have it both ways!


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## NancyJ

I do a similar thing with my husband with Beau. Beau has ZERO respect for my husband who has been able to intimidate our other dogs (for 30 years!) into submission. For Beau that is a "turn on" and an invitation to engage and no amount of discussion with my husband that he needs to actually be smarter, not stronger, than the dog sinks in. So, I manage the dog and ask very little of my husband.


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## G-burg

It could be that the medication she is on.. is causing her to become more hungry.. 

I know the dog I had with epilepsy the meds made her crazy hungry and wanting to steal food any chance she could get.. She wasn't like that before the medication...


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## jafo220

I assume the pitbull thing was a joke. That would be the worst thing they could do really. If they can't manage their own food situation now with one dog taking, how will they manage two dogs stealing their food? 

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## JJSMargo

Sarah...Who owns the dog you or your buddies? Yes, using an e-collar could affect her health very much, the seizures can come back. Moreover, how about using basic training techniques, or going to a class or a few with your dog? Hate to be nasty, but just because your buddies want you to, lets do electric shock on unhealthy dog?! **** it, do you pay rent over there, or someone says jump and you will? Respect goes both ways: people respect the dog, dog respects people. Without proper conditioning and training on how to use the e-collar, you will just zap her until she runs away, or becomes super aggressive. Put this collar on yourself, have your bf zap you every time you open your mouth with increased intensity, see the effect on you. When I used e-collar in training, the first thing that my trainer did was put it on my arm, so I knew what it was, before I could go and press the button!
Also, the dog seems to me lacks basic training and is soon to become a scapegoat for your buddies. How about not leaving food on coffee table, or putting shoes away, basic things like that on human part?
Last but not least, you had enough money to buy a GSD, and good e-collar is not cheap, how about a few training sessions? Besides, you posted this whole story of "she does and they want me to" on here, why not just call your vet, or research a good trainer in your area?!


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## LouCastle

Sarah~ said:


> LouCastle, so have you ever used an e-collar on a dog with this condition? Or known someone who has? I know you have tons of experience with them I was also referred to your website and told I should read up on e-collars  I'm not going to use one on my dog for this situation but I would like to learn more about them just in case I ever really did need one.
> 
> I was told by my vet that seizures can be caused by electrical problems in the brain so the thought of any electricity entering her body made me very nervous.


I have Sarah, with two dogs. Nothing untoward occurred. 

Your vet is correct. Seizures can be caused by stray electrical signals in the brain. But for all practical purposes, the current that flows during the use of an Ecollar, goes from one contact point to the other, on most brands a distance of 1 1/4". There is very slight penetration into the skin in the immediate area, but the brain, even of a small dog is several inches away.


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## selzer

Could you train your buddies to crate your dog when they start eating? Or to limit her access to the room, with a baby gate, etc? I don't like for other people to be responsible to train my dogs. So I wouldn't want them punishing her or trying to train her. Instead, if they are going to get a bowl of popcorn or cereal or pizza and wings, have them tell the dog to go to her room, and shut the door or gate or crate, and then eat.

It does not deal with the problem so much as the symptom, but it is the symptom that causes a problem for your buddies. And it seems the best thing to do while you are not there controlling your dog yourself.


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## sehrgutcsg

JJSMargo said:


> Sarah...Who owns the dog you or your buddies? Yes, using an e-collar could affect her health very much, the seizures can come back. Moreover, how about using basic training techniques, or going to a class or a few with your dog? Hate to be nasty, but just because your buddies want you to, lets do electric shock on unhealthy dog?! **** it, do you pay rent over there, or someone says jump and you will? Respect goes both ways: people respect the dog, dog respects people. Without proper conditioning and training on how to use the e-collar, you will just zap her until she runs away, or becomes super aggressive. Put this collar on yourself, have your bf zap you every time you open your mouth with increased intensity, see the effect on you. When I used e-collar in training, the first thing that my trainer did was put it on my arm, so I knew what it was, before I could go and press the button!
> Also, the dog seems to me lacks basic training and is soon to become a scapegoat for your buddies. How about not leaving food on coffee table, or putting shoes away, basic things like that on human part?
> Last but not least, you had enough money to buy a GSD, and good e-collar is not cheap, how about a few training sessions? Besides, you posted this whole story of "she does and they want me to" on here, why not just call your vet, or research a good trainer in your area?!


I have watched this thread start to finish. ^The above goes over the top,^ however the OP is very sensitive, she will not crate the dog at different dinner times, she spent money on the dog, she incurred vet bills, but the problem lies in the area of reason. Nobody in the household, except the dog has a sense of reason. Hungry dog eats. Hungry dog acts up. Hungry dog could be faking seizures, she's smarter then the humans, that's obvious. How about a simple good smack on the snoot of all two legged creatures within 50 yards of the hungry dog..... :help: :help: :help: NEEDED !

SGCSG


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## selzer

sehrgutcsg said:


> I have watched this thread start to finish. ^The above goes over the top,^ however the OP is very sensitive, she will not crate the dog at different dinner times, she spent money on the dog, she incurred vet bills, but the problem lies in the area of reason. Nobody in the household, except the dog has a sense of reason. Hungry dog eats. Hungry dog acts up. Hungry dog could be faking seizures, she's smarter then the humans, that's obvious. How about a simple good smack on the snoot of all two legged creatures within 50 yards of the hungry dog..... :help: :help: :help: NEEDED !
> 
> SGCSG


Lots of people crate the dog when they cannot supervise. Which means, the dog is in the bedroom with you while you sleep, and crated while you are at work. It can be a lot of crate time. 

It sounds like while she is working or sleeping the bf is willing to supervise the dog and lets her out. Why would it be painful to crate the dog while they are eating. It seems less stressful then being angry that the dog is stealing food that you are trying to eat. Crate the dog, and when the owner is home, she can work on better manners while she eats. 

I don't think it has anything to do with being sensitive. People will become pretty irate if the food they are trying to eat gets mouthed by a dog. The dog is better off out of the picture while the roommates are eating. Then, when they are not eating, they can let the dog out again. And it will be less stress all around. Less stress is what you want with a seizure dog.


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## Magwart

Re baby gates: 

There are choices that go to 60-65" -- but this style has to be screwed in place to install it. I have one in my kitchen and it works well.
http://www.target.com/p/munchkin-wi...pdp|CategorySiloedViewCP|item_page.vertical_1

Evenflo Expansion Swing Wide Wood Gate : Target


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## sehrgutcsg

selzer said:


> Lots of people crate the dog when they cannot supervise. Which means, the dog is in the bedroom with you while you sleep, and crated while you are at work. It can be a lot of crate time.
> 
> It sounds like while she is working or sleeping the bf is willing to supervise the dog and lets her out. Why would it be painful to crate the dog while they are eating. It seems less stressful then being angry that the dog is stealing food that you are trying to eat. Crate the dog, and when the owner is home, she can work on better manners while she eats.
> 
> I don't think it has anything to do with being sensitive. People will become pretty irate if the food they are trying to eat gets mouthed by a dog. The dog is better off out of the picture while the roommates are eating. Then, when they are not eating, they can let the dog out again. And it will be less stress all around. Less stress is what you want with a seizure dog.


Selzer, now were back to reason instead of sensitive.. WoW, a real working dog concept... Luv, SGCSG


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## LouCastle

JJSMargo said:


> ... Yes, using an e-collar could affect her health very much, the seizures can come back.


Seizures from epilepsy or of unknown origin can come back at any time. But there is no support that I know of, for what seems to be your contention that this can be caused by an Ecollar. If you have some research that has linked use of an Ecollar, particularly at low stim levels, to seizures, please show it to us. Otherwise it's nothing but conjecture.


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## Sarah~

G-burg: It could be that her meds make her hungry. I try to make sure she has enough, lately we have been free-feeding so that she can eat until she's full. She has put on a pound or two, I feel that she gets plenty to eat. I have told my boyfriend before I think she might have that disease where animals try to chew and eat everything they can fit in their mouth!

jafo, unfortunately it's not the first time that particular roommate has said he's getting a pit bull and after he said it I kind of laughed, like "yeah right", and he said he was serious. I already know I will be doing all of the dirty work with the new dog and all the bad things it does will be blamed on me and my dogs. 

JJSMargo... I pay the majority of the bills in the house and the dogs are mine. I pay all of the bills associated with them and trust me Xena's vet bills are not cheap. I know I should not listen to them as much as I do, I do tend to be a doormat and I'm trying to work on that. The dogs know basic obedience, like I've said before Xena knows drop it and will listen to me when I say it, it's just that as soon as she does she's on the hunt for the next bit of food to steal. I'm sure this will make people angry but it's really easier for me to just pay the necessities like vet bills and food and to learn as much about training as I can online than it is to try and break it to everyone else that I'm hiring a trainer for the dogs. When you're not a very assertive person already it's hard to stand up to 5 other people yelling at you that you spend too much money on the dogs and I just need to show the dogs who's boss and train them myself. I did put in my OP that I was looking for experienced people to back me up that an e-collar for Xena was a bad idea. Sorry you got so upset about all of it.

Thanks for sharing your experience, LouCastle, that is good info to have in case there ever was a real need to use an e-collar on Xena  I came to this site specifically to ask even though it was not about my GSD because I knew I would get honest replies instead of everyone telling me not to buy one just because it's a shock collar and all shock collars are bad. It is a relief to know I don't need one for this situation, though.

selzer, even though I said before I didn't want to do that because it seems like she would be crated a lot of the day, I did do that today. We all had dinner at the same time and she was crated. Then I made sure all of the dishes were cleared and the leftovers put away. It was nice to have a meal without pushing the dogs away from us every couple of minutes. My boyfriend gets paid on friday and we are going to buy several gates so that the dogs can be out at mealtimes but not underfoot. Until then he is willing to watch them during the day, even though that makes me a bit nervous since "watching" the dogs to everyone else is not my definition of watching.

Magwart, thank you for the link! That should be just big enough!


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## Chip18

Sarah~ said:


> You are absolutely right Xena has a lot of issues and it drives everyone crazy. I treat her like she's made of glass because of her medical problems and as a result she gets away with far more than she should.
> 
> I like the link you gave! I will work on teaching Xena 'place'. Both links are the same, are the posts you are talking about in the video's comments?


Oh I was trying for the Sit on Dog link also:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/426322-selzer-sitting-dog-2.html

Post 19 and 39, I believe this and "the place" command will prove quite useful, in any case they can do no harm. 

And yes you have a dog with a disability as do I. Rocky has 'Wobblers" don't let the fact that you have a GSD with a disability lull you into a false sense of security!

I did and had a full blown Dominant Aggressive Male, Red Zone don't care for being number two, to Mr BullMastiff/APBT/Lab mix on my hands!!

Stitches in my hand breaking up fights prove my case! He was well trained (GSD) but I think I slacked up a bit and know I missed some signals!

Then he decided he did not much care for people either!!!! Uh No!! Not again, 'Who Pets my Puppy or Dog" instituted immediately. No more people problems no dog reactivity issues,either two for one...problems solved!  

So yes take care of him but "don't" under estimate him either!


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## Sarah~

Thanks Chip! You're right, it can't hurt at all to work on these  And I do need to toughen up, it's hard though with those big brown eyes!


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## Blanketback

Aww Sarah, I do feel bad for you and your dogs. This isn't the first time that I've read your posts and thought to myself that your roomates are jerks. Maybe not complete you-know-whats, but they sure do seem to take advantage of your good nature. I wish you could find another place to live, with people who are more mature and less self-centered. Hugs!


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## Chip18

Sarah~ said:


> Thanks Chip! You're right, it can't hurt at all to work on these  And I do need to toughen up, it's hard though with those big brown eyes!


Yeah I cried when I saw Rocky "wobbly" his way up to our front door. Oh poor baby...yeah...not so much! 

Don't know how she is on leash?? But if you have issues there also, this should help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqodpbetQxQ


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## izupizu83

Sarah~ said:


> I don't know it this is a health question or a training question. I do know it's probably a dumb question and to me seems like a no brainer but I have my boyfriend and our 3 roommates on my back to look into an e-collar for my younger dog. She was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy last year. It is well controlled with medication, we have had 8 months with no seizures. To me it seems very dangerous to her health but they (bf + roomies) are fed up with her bad behavior and me for not punishing her. I tell them that I never catch her in the act so punishment would be useless, so they want her to wear an e collar to be corrected from a distance. I figured I would come here to ask the experienced people, if nothing else to prove to them I'm not just talking out of my butt or trying to baby her by making up excuses for her not to wear the collar.


 Ok first things first, an e collar is not a shock collar and is safe to use. the epilepsy part i am not sure but on healthy dogs it’s paired with obedience. CRATE your dog when you’re not home, they can be crated for up to 8 hours and it’s not a cruel thing to do, u can leave safe toys or fill a long w peanut butter and freeze it for them, crate time is for their safety and your piece of mind if you don’t trust them while you’re gone. I would not trust these roommates with your dog, it is your dog and your decision and if their is bad habits or behavior it’s because she hasn’t been taught otherwise in a way that she will understand. find a balanced trainer that isn’t scared of tools but uses them as needed and works with food motivation and positive reinforcement as well, they’re your best bet and purely positive training doesn’t work for most dogs, it’s like if you never told your child right from wrong in a way that made sense. Go to someone reputable for their advice because what your roommates are suggesting is a horrible way to use the collar and could easily make her fearful and cause issues down the line if it is used inappropriately. a dog needs obedience training (sit down recall heel etc) before you add the collar to reinforce or let them off lead safely. e collars should not be used for correction unless you know what you’re doing and have been advised by a professional who has years and years of experience. best of luck! and don’t take advice from your roommates! (and consult with vets!)


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## dogma13

From 2014 old thread


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## wolfstraum

NO!!!! NONONONONO!!!!!!!

Agree with all above especially the one explaining that seizures are already disrupting the brain....

NO



Lee


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