# Is my little guy a pure-bred or not?



## MattisTheRED (May 1, 2013)

If you ask me he looks pure bred but I can be wrong. 
He is longer than tall but his muzzle is a little short but that can just be because he's young. 
Anyway he's about 9 weeks old or a little less and he's just a doll. 
I'm sorry for the pure quality of the picture I'm having a hard time with the attachment system. 

My mom actually got him for me on Saturday completely unexpected. 
He was bred by my mom's friend's daughter-in-law's mom. She attests that they are pure. I never saw the mom or father but my mom has. 
She said that the mom of my puppy is AKC registered and that the father wasn't but one of the dogs(possibly my pup's dad) was/is a police dog. 
Like I said he looks pure to me but my dad thinks his fur is too light. 
More than anything I'm worried that his ears won't stand up alone. I hope they do though. I'll glue them if not or however is the best way to go about it. 
I just wanted to know if anyone can tell if he looks pure. I think so, but I'm not sure of the breeders legitimacy. The breeder has been breeding for awhile though I'm pretty sure. 
He looks just like a German and acts like one but his coat is shorter than my last shepherd and his fur on his chest is a whitish cream color. 
I'm just worried that we got ripped off. 
I love him just the same, I just want to know and I want his ears to stick up. 
Any and all answers appreciated. Please excuse my infrequency in responding I will be checking to see if I have answers. 
Thanks much all.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Picture is a little dark & grainy but he does look like a GSD pup


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

GSD puppy ears...they go up & down during teething...normal. Don't mess with them. My boys ears were up completely, no longer dropping close to 6 months.


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## MattisTheRED (May 1, 2013)

I apologize for the photo quality. It's hard to keep him to sit still long enough! Not to mention it was taken on my phone. When I have a chance ill upload more pictures. 
The quality didn't look bad on my phone but I am not sure. 
In any case my other main concern is his ears. I know he's only 9 weeks and it can take up to months but will there be any way to know if I need to glue them?


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## EmeryGSD (Mar 8, 2013)

Definitely!!!!


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## MattisTheRED (May 1, 2013)

Definitely pure bred you mean?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

the pup is yours and it's to late worry about if the pup
is this or that. give the pup the best in it's upbringing
and you and the pup are going to be fine.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You definitely got ripped off. You went to a breeder who is breeding an AKC dog to a non-AKC dog, and charging money for the puppies. If I had a nickel for all the dogs around here whose owners claim sire or grandsire was a police dog, well, I could probably buy a carton of cigarrettes. That's a lot of busy police dogs in my neighborhood. It is amazing their handlers have time to do police work.

The puppy could be pure-bred. Who knows? Without a pedigree, you can't be sure. The bigger question is why does it matter to you? What are your plans for your maybe GSD that would be different if it turns out to not be total-GSD?


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

looks like a gsd puppy to me. very cute


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## MattisTheRED (May 1, 2013)

My plans for him are absolutely the same regardless unconditional love for his whole life. I was just curious of opinions to see if anyone knew if he was or not. 
And yes people shouldn't charge for dogs like that but they needed good homes. I don't know my mom found him and didn't even alert me. I think he's cute and I am honestly not worried about blunders in his breeding as long as he looks the part. I just don't want to tell people he's pure if he's not, I don't care for pedigree because of anything all I would do would be canine good citizen and I was thinking about search and rescue. 
My primary concern is if he will at least have pointed ears and what have you. 

I could care less about pedigree there are countless numbers of wonderful mutts who need good homes. 
I just don't wanna be a liar by accident. 
He looks close enough to me. 
It's just a matter of breed specific characteristics. 
I want the loyalty of a shepherd more than anything. 
You know? 
If he's not completely pure it won't effect my love for him.


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## shawk2424 (Feb 6, 2013)

I have a pure bread pup who is 4 months old and I can trace his lines all the way back to Westphalia Germany. I will soon receive the "pink papers" as soon as they are available to me. The only thing I can say is that although I'm a new GSD owner I have seen enough GSD's to tell if they are German or American bred and you can tell a lot by looking at there head. My boy has a block head compared to American bred who seen to have longer snouts.I know this dog was a gift but if you truly wanted a pure bread you should have you have to research the broader as well as the breed surveys and line. 

As far as his hears are concerned, don't expect them to pop up right away. My boys ears popped up at two months. I also gave him marrow bones that you can get at a butcher shop or toys which will strengthen his jaw muscles which will ultimately help with his ears.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You should be more worried about temperament than looks.



MattisTheRED said:


> I think he's cute and I am honestly not worried about blunders in his breeding as long as he looks the part. I just don't want to tell people he's pure if he's not, I don't care for pedigree because of anything all I would do would be canine good citizen and I was thinking about search and rescue.
> My primary concern is if he will at least have pointed ears and what have you.
> 
> I could care less about pedigree there are countless numbers of wonderful mutts who need good homes.
> ...


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## MattisTheRED (May 1, 2013)

Well I am worried about temperament. 
So far he seems pretty good. Maybe a little more anxious then I would hope but keep in mind I've had him a sum total of 3 days and 4 nights. In those 3 days he totally opened up and is a playful happy pup. 
So for temperament his a good. I'm not completely new to the world of dog breeding and I've checked his temperament and so had my mom. 

Like I said I didn't get a chance to do any research because it was a gift. I'm not entirely worried about blood purity I just wanted some opinions from people more educated than I. 
In any case he's a good puppy who needed a good home and I wanted a dog so I'm glad we have each other. 
Like I said I just wanted educated opinions I just don't want to be made a liar.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

there is a thread here about puppy ears. At nine weeks, don't worry. It is hard to say that because a lot of people worry about the ears. 

Just because the ears didn't go up, doesn't mean it isn't pure. 

I guess, I just would say the dog is a German Shepherd. At nine weeks you cannot tell by behavior whether or not it is purebred. It's adult temperament is a long way off. 

If you expect that it is a pure-bred German Shepherd Dog, then you will expect to take him to training classes and keep him little mind as well as his teeth busy. GSDs are not only loyal, they are intelligent. Intelligent dogs are not always the easiest pets because they think of all kinds of ways to channel their energy. 

So treat your dog as a GSD, and train him. When the dog is 5 months old you may want to re-think whether or not to glue if they are not up yet. But you are a ways away. GSD ears can go up at 11 months. It is just rare. Usually they go up and down through teething, and then they go up and stay there if they are going to. 

Any dog can get a CGC so that should be no problem -- not having a pedigree. 

I think the only way you can claim pure-bred is if you have a pedigree to back that up. But why would you go out of your way to say pure-bred. I have pure-bred GSDs -- all of them are. I think that is the first time I ever said that. They are German Shepherd Dogs. 

Enjoy your puppy.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You will see who he really is at around one to two years old. That is when you will find out his true temperament.
Good luck.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There is temperament -- which includes the genetic stuff, and the pack order stuff. The big thing is how the dam is. If her temperament is solid, then most likely the pup will also be, because the pup gets half her genes, and also is imprinted by her throughout its crucial young experience. 

There is socialization -- which can make a difference in how comfortable your dog is in any situation. A dog with a good, solid temperament will be less likely to be negatively impacted to little or poor socialization, but how do you take that chance? A dog with a less stellar temperament can be positively impacted by a committment to proper socialization. 

There is training -- a well-mannered dog is not an accident and it is not genetic, it is up to you the owner. Solid nerves, or weak nerves, training is essential. Any dog is a nuisance if it is not under control. Start young and positive, and you will most likely not have to worry about any nuisance behavior.


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## MattisTheRED (May 1, 2013)

I honestly did forget his true temperament takes a few years to show through. 
He seems pretty loyal already and I have been doing very much socialization (humans, other dogs(we have like 6 Vizslas), and cats so far. I think I'll wait till he's older to introduce him to littler kids. 

I've been doing some research and yes I know they are intelligent dogs. I plan on socializing him and training him at least basics by myself and if need be ill get help for further obedience. 
I'm a pretty smart guy myself so I'm not too worried about his intelligence. I actually want an intelligent dog. They're be harder to train but down the road it will be worth it. 

But yes I want to say he's a GSD or close to it. I love him regardless. 
I can't wait to see the dog he grows in to. 

It may also be important to note that he has been holding his ears out more and a little more up. My mom said she didn't notice that yesterday. So I'm sure he's on track. 
I understand there is an entire thread on ears but I just have one last question on the subject and that is how old is too old to have them taped/glued?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GSDs are generally easy to train. But they can think up all sorts of things like, how to open the kennel or crate, how to get into the child-proof cupboards, and if bored, how to chew through a wall, or eat the flooring off the floor. 

I don't know when you give up on ears and glue. At five months you can look at the ears and see how they are positioned and how heavy they are, and whether it is likely or unlikely they will go up on their own. Then you can decide to give them more time, or start the gluing process. Let's hope you won't need to.


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## kjdreyer (Feb 7, 2013)

He looks exactly like my GSD when I got her at 9 weeks, and she's darkened up, her nose has lengthened, and her ears are so up she looks like a donkey. He is adorable, have fun!


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## EmeryGSD (Mar 8, 2013)

MattisTheRED said:


> Definitely pure bred you mean?


Yes definitely purebred hun


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

The pup looks PB to me. The picture is dark and grainy but the pup looks good. As for the ears, don't worry about them. Also, training him shouldn't be difficult. Intelligent breeds tend to train easier. Its when they question the repetitiveness of "sit" 10 times in a row they can be difficult. 

Remember to socialize outside the house as well (once shots are good!!). Socializing him with little kids now can be beneficial as he'll learn early how he needs to interact with them. The more positive experiences he has now, the better he'll likely be as an adult.


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## MattisTheRED (May 1, 2013)

Well I take him to socialize any where I can. And he's met many dogs and cats and people. I just don't want little little kids to handle him and he gets scared so young and has a traumatic experience. I was gonna wait a week or so for him to get more use to his new home and to me and his new family. 
As for training the only thing that seems like its gonna be a pain is housebreaking and biting. 
He loves to chew. I know he's teething but its ridiculous. I don't let him bite people though and when he does it to me I usually tell him no and/or just ignore him and walk away. 
But as of now he follows me and comes when I call him if I'm in sight. An sometimes he'll give me his paw which is adorable.


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## shawk2424 (Feb 6, 2013)

Teething is tough to handle and at times you will think to yourself that you don't mind him chewing on a shoe or furniture because its easier but you have to stay strong and make sure he doesn't make a habit of chewing on things that you don't want him chewing on. The worst time for me was when my pup was 8-10 weeks old. Then one day he just stopped trying to chew on the whole house. You wont notice it right away but one day you will say hey he's not destroying everything. He is 4 months old now and still chews on things but it's nowhere as bad as it was. You just have to be vigilant with keeping things out of reach from him. I recommend seeing if your local grocery store carries raw marrow bones in the meat section. If they do then buy some and freeze them and give him one a couple times a week. It gives him the healthy bacteria a puppy needs and let's him chew on something that's good for him. This will also strengthen his jaw muscles which helps with the ears.

As far as potty training is concerned, it's just like the teething stage. You have to watch him and take him out all the time. I restricted my pups water intake when he was at that age because he would pee all the time. You also want to create a routine like saying "potty?" or like I say "out?" when I take him outside. I also only use one door to take him out so now he knows enough to sit by that door when he has to go. The main thing is to just be patient and create a routine so he can get used to it. It will most definitely happen.


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## Jmcdermit (Apr 15, 2013)

Not all dogs have to have papers. I have a genuine top of the line GSD and we did not purchase the papers for the extra 50 dollars from the breeder, however we do have the contract and paperwork on her parents who are SV papered. She is my pet and I am not going to ever breed her. I do not need a piece of paper from the AKC to prove that her dad was the #1 GSD young dog Sieger when he competed. I have the paperwork from the breeder for my own benefit. Also, my puppy's momma dog is an import from Germany and has all her certs. Don't listen to people on here saying you got ripped off because you don't have papers. If they would like they can tell me the same thing and I could forward them a link of my dogs sire's page so they can tell me if he is real or not!!!
Ok enough ranting!!!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

MattisTheRED said:


> Well I take him to socialize any where I can. And he's met many dogs and cats and people. I just don't want little little kids to handle him and he gets scared so young and has a traumatic experience. I was gonna wait a week or so for him to get more use to his new home and to me and his new family.
> As for training the only thing that seems like its gonna be a pain is housebreaking and biting.
> He loves to chew. I know he's teething but its ridiculous. I don't let him bite people though and when he does it to me I usually tell him no and/or just ignore him and walk away.
> But as of now he follows me and comes when I call him if I'm in sight. An sometimes he'll give me his paw which is adorable.


 
if your pup has a solid temperament and you are supervising interactions, a small kid isn't going to mess him up. Think of it as an opportunity to teach the child how to properly interact with a dog as well. Win win for both. The sooner your pup is exposed to children, especially young children (positive experiences), the less likely you are to have a dog that has an aggressive reaction to children simply because he wasn't allowed to interact at critical points in his development.


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## EmeryGSD (Mar 8, 2013)

Jmcdermit said:


> Not all dogs have to have papers. I have a genuine top of the line GSD and we did not purchase the papers for the extra 50 dollars from the breeder, however we do have the contract and paperwork on her parents who are SV papered. She is my pet and I am not going to ever breed her. I do not need a piece of paper from the AKC to prove that her dad was the #1 GSD young dog Sieger when he competed. I have the paperwork from the breeder for my own benefit. Also, my puppy's momma dog is an import from Germany and has all her certs. Don't listen to people on here saying you got ripped off because you don't have papers. If they would like they can tell me the same thing and I could forward them a link of my dogs sire's page so they can tell me if he is real or not!!!
> Ok enough ranting!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Amen!!!! 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jmcdermit said:


> Not all dogs have to have papers. I have a genuine top of the line GSD and we did not purchase the papers for the extra 50 dollars from the breeder, however we do have the contract and paperwork on her parents who are SV papered. She is my pet and I am not going to ever breed her. I do not need a piece of paper from the AKC to prove that her dad was the #1 GSD young dog Sieger when he competed. I have the paperwork from the breeder for my own benefit. Also, my puppy's momma dog is an import from Germany and has all her certs. Don't listen to people on here saying you got ripped off because you don't have papers. If they would like they can tell me the same thing and I could forward them a link of my dogs sire's page so they can tell me if he is real or not!!!
> Ok enough ranting!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


It has to make you wonder though. I mean really. Why would a breeder offer you a puppy with papers for $50 more than the puppy? That makes no sense at all. When you register the litter it costs the same -- ok 1-2$ per puppy that you register, besides the registration fee. 

So, your breeder basically sold you a puppy with no papers that was worth the same as the puppies he gave papers with which basically screws him out of $50. 

Or does it? 

I can really only think of one reason to do this, to cheat on the books. I am guessing that there was no contract, no bill of sale, cash-transaction? Let's think of it this way, you have 25 puppies to sell for $1000 each. This isn't your day job, and your total costs in your dogs only comes up to $12k so the other 13k you would pay income tax on, as well as sales tax. 

But lets say that 30% of your customers don't care about papers. They will pay $950 for the dog, but you can just claim that pup died. You don't have to pay sales tax -- that would be about $65 for 1000 and that covers the $50. And then your income that you report, instead of 25k is only 16.334k (I think), you pay tax on only 4k. Most people would like to make 8-9k under the table -- especially if they are getting some form of public assistance. 

Everyone loves a bargain. 

I think that practice is very suspicious. The only good reason to sell a dog that can be registered with no papers, is if it was a trial breeding, close in-breeding, breeding deliberate faults for some purpose, but not wanting the pups to be bred. Ensuring that any dogs created from the pairing are not added to the stud book.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

Youre way off. The no papers thing is to keep non ethical breeding out. Alot of idiots who could turn into potential breeders will not pay the extra 50 bux. A puppy mill will but what can you do? At least you dont hear of shepherdpoo's -YET. 

The comment on public assistance?


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## Jmcdermit (Apr 15, 2013)

I think the 50 dollars is for the time involved in actually preparing the papers. And yes I do have a contract and a bill of sale. And they did not necessarily only take cash. They only took cash on the day of sale. This being to prevent fraud from checks bouncing causing them to get law enforcement involved to retrieve the dog. They said at any time that we want the papers we can obtain them. But most people who want one of their puppies are getting a companion dog. Therefore AKC papers are just something fancy to hang on the wall. They don't make your companion worth any more. Free papers with your dog is like buying a car and getting a free tank if gas. Yeah it would be nice if all cars came with that. But if it takes time and effort on the car dealers side then it takes away from their bottom line. Our breeder does this for a living. They do not have day jobs. The husband is also a certified trainer. They are inspected and AKC approved, members of German shepherd dog club of america, united Schutzhund club of America, international association of canine professionals, and national K-9 dog trainers association. One of their sires is a son of VA1 pakros d'Ulmental and my puppies sire is SCHH3 young dog Sieger. So, with that being said, I don't know how you could say that charging a measly 50 dollars for papers is a shady operation.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> ... we did not purchase the papers for the extra 50 dollars from the breeder, however we do have the contract and paperwork on her parents who are SV papered.


Well, you don't have to buy papers from the breeder. But, don't you dream to win in, say, agility competition? Dog dancing competition? If I were you, I'd chip her in a club and register all these data legal way. AKC chip registration services are available.


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## Jmcdermit (Apr 15, 2013)

How much do chips usually cost? She might enter cutest puppy competitions









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## Jmcdermit (Apr 15, 2013)

Also...sorry for hijacking this thread


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

volcano said:


> Youre way off. The no papers thing is to keep non ethical breeding out. Alot of idiots who could turn into potential breeders will not pay the extra 50 bux. A puppy mill will but what can you do? At least you dont hear of shepherdpoo's -YET.
> 
> The comment on public assistance?


Um, no, the "no papers thing" doesn't keep unethical breeders out. Even selling a puppy on Limited Registration isn't always effective. People will just slap some Cont. KC or APRI papers on them, and sell their "registered" puppies. And _you_ might not have seen a Shepadoodle, but I have.


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## starburst (Jun 9, 2012)

LeoRose said:


> Um, no, the "no papers thing" doesn't keep unethical breeders out. Even selling a puppy on Limited Registration isn't always effective. People will just slap some Cont. KC or APRI papers on them, and sell their "registered" puppies. And _you_ might not have seen a Shepadoodle, but I have.




Check this out lol

Shepadoodle, German Shepherd Poodle Hybrid, Shepadoodles

op : I think your pup is adorable and looks PB to me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Actually, unless they are selling the entire litter without papers, providing papers to each individual buyer is no trouble at all. It is not _worth_ $50 to withhold the papers. 

When you register the litter, It costs a base fee for the litter and then I think $2 for each puppy. So if she has 8 pups, then you pay $15 for registration and $16 for each puppy and if you are me, $17 for the expedite fee. They send you a litter record, and an application for each puppy. 

You have to put down the information for each puppy sold. If I sold three puppies without papers, I would still have to write that information down and keep it recorded. Where it says papers provided, I would have to right no instead of yes. That is basically all the paperwork difference between selling a dog with papers as opposed to without papers. 

If a breeder fails to record that information and are inspected, they will have a problem, get a citation from the AKC for record keeping. So it just doesn't make sense NOT to provide the papers. 

And yes, not providing papers will not stop yayhoos from breeding their dogs. They don't care about papers, and they will find other people to take their dogs without papers, or they think they will. They can sell the dog to a puppy mill, and they will provide their own papers with their own bogus registries. Doesn't matter really. It is certainly not worth $50 to withhold them for any reason. So it begs the question, why would they do that? To use your example, if you buy a car, you usually get two sets of keys with it, but the auto dealer will allow you to pay $50 less and you will get only one set of keys. You may never want or need a second set of keys. So some people would say fine. But why would a dealer want to do that if he already has the keys, and he has no use for the keys, and it just is going to cost him money to withhold the second set of keys. 

There is no rhyme or reason for it. So auto dealers don't do that. Breeders shouldn't either. I find that suspicious.


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## OskarVonStark (May 6, 2013)

*Similiar Question...*

...just wondering if my new puppy is pure bred or not. We think he's around 8 weeks old.


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## Verlaly (May 8, 2013)

*I too dont know if shes pure or not*

i think urs looks like a pb, i was wondering same thing she looks very light. She is 8 weeks old too.


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## EmeryGSD (Mar 8, 2013)

Verlaly said:


> i think urs looks like a pb, i was wondering same thing she looks very light. She is 8 weeks old too.


She definitely looks mixed but very cute


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## EmeryGSD (Mar 8, 2013)

OskarVonStark said:


> ...just wondering if my new puppy is pure bred or not. We think he's around 8 weeks old.


Wouldn't doubt it for a second! 


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## Jordan1017 (May 9, 2013)

As for police K-9s, unless there are some that allow it, a handler does not have rights to breeding. Even if they purchased it, if they use it, the department usually has them trained and you're required to sign a contract that you will not breed. Some will obviously, but they can't register under their GSD.


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