# I think my dog is unstable...



## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

I have a 14 month old white GSD hes about 100lbs his name is Storm hes the first white GSD that I’ve owned. I’ve had him since he was 4months old, spent almost every single day with him all day since I got him, recently he’s been starting to act strange. If one of the cats is around doing its own thing Storm will be calm doing something else and just run to attack the cat out of the blue with his hackles up. When normally him and the cat will play, sleep together even eat from the same bowl (I supervise it of course, he’s been with the cats since he was a puppy never had a problem before until the past few weeks) 

My father had to have a surgery done on his knee, he came home with crutches I had Storm on a leash about to take him for a walk my dad walks by us and storm goes crazy trying to attack him. At first I thought it might have been the crutches that he might be trying to attack because he had never seen them before so my brother took the crutches put them next to him he didn’t look at them twice just kept trying to go after my dad. If he wouldn’t have been on the leash he prolly would have killed him. He lunged at him 3 times pulling me with him to get him hackles up teeth bared growling at him like he had never seen him before in his life and my dad had a fair share in raising storm. Storm went back to normal behavior with my dad the next day.

Then the next thing that happened, a few days later I was standing in the kitchen looking for something Storm is in the other room sitting down looking at me just being his normal self. All of a sudden he starts to growl at me hackles up, teeth bared, growling he charges me I’m just standing there looking at him. He crouches to the floor like he’s a spring about to jump at me my dad is like HEY! Storm! What are you doing?! Storm snaps out of it walks around me hackles still up like if I make the wrong move he’s going to nail me so I say Storm! Stop it! We make eye contact he had this far away look in his eyes almost as if he didn’t know who I was like he knew me but his brain wasn’t making the connection. When I yelled at him to cut it out it like registered in his mind he ran out of the kitchen an threw himself on the floor. 

It’s just strange the way it happens every time he gets that look on his face like he doesn’t know where he is or who anyone is. I’m worried about what might happen if he snaps again and doesn’t recognize who it is he is trying to attack and really hurts one of us. If anyone can tell me what they think that would be great. I think I’m kind of in denial about him being mentally unstable from the way he acts so I’m kind of hoping he might be having a dominance issue or something…I know that shepherds are one of the smartest dogs you can get and they should always know who you are no matter what but its like he didn’t know me…he always should know me..

Sorry for the long post…but if anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them I’m at a loss and don’t know what to do


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

He might be sick! You should bring him to the vet to make sure.
He obviously has all his shots right?


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

yea he has all his shots, he acts like his normal self nothing out of the ordinary until he like snaps


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## DSudd (Sep 22, 2006)

I would take hmi to the vet. Make sure he doesnt have a medial issue causing this


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

This is VERY strange. You should bring him to a professonal trainer ASAP before he hurts or kills you/ an or a family member.
This sounds serious.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

I am sorry to hear this, this is very unusual behavior not normal at all. He should know his family. You need to bring him to the vet and have blood work done especailly check his thyroid and the thyroid being off can cause unusal behavior.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Well first I am going to suggest a full physical exam including a thyroid test and vision. Random aggressiveness is a sign of thyroid imbalance. How does his hair look? Have he been lethargic or sleeping more than usual? 

did something traumatic happen to him that may be triggering this? I would say from the hackles being up that it sounds like he's scared but the randomness and the attack on you seems wierd.

I think the crutches scared him and he just kept reacting to your father. But still...the severity of it is way beyond normal. The first time my girl saw crutches she was like "Woohoo!! Big Sticks!!"

If thyroid and vision are good then maybe you should look at a possible neurological problem.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Username Valium on here had a dog with similar issues last year at this time, I can't remember what it was called. I tried to do a search and nothing came up. The outcome was not good. Maybe pm her for her experience. 
I am sorry you are going thru this,I would muzzle your boy if you feel he is unsafe and get to the vet asap.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Yes. Get him to a vet asap. A dog that is sick or injured can act aggressively seemingly "out of the blue" but there's a very good reason for it.

Has Storm been eating, drinking, pooping, peeing, etc normally? Any chance that he has gotten into anything -- garbage, the shed, the garage, any poisons like pesticides, herbicides, anything with heavy metals? Does he have access to treated wood, like you might use to build a deck? Do you know all of the plants in your yard and that they're dog-safe? Don't assume anything. Do a walk-through of all areas that Storm has access to including the house. Any medicines or cleansers disturbed? 

I'd want the vet to do a thorough exam. Make sure she looks in Storm's mouth (dental pain can be excruciating), runs a Complete Blood Count (that's what it's called -- a CBC.). Also, I'd like to see a Thyroid Panel done. Let's do a urinalysis too. If there are ANY areas that show pain -- like limb pain or tenderness in the abdomen-- I'd follow up with xrays.

From what you describe, I'm wondering if there's something neurological going on --seizures or something more severe (this could be a result of poisoning or organic). Be sure to tell your vet EVERY detail that you've told us and anything that you can think of. The vision of him being "checked out" really makes me think that he's sick or that there's something else medical going on.

I wouldn't wait to get in to see my regular vet. If she couldn't see my dog right away, I'd ask my friends and try to find another reputable vet and get Storm in asap to START the work up. This obviously can't wait. 

Start there, and let us know what the vet says. 

Good luck. You and Storm (and your dad) are in my thoughts.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Jane, you may be thinking of "Brittany Rage."

However, as I learn more and more, I find that almost every act of "unprovoked aggression" actually has a cause. You just need to find it. And you also need to make sure that you are in fact dealing with true aggression.
Maybe someone on the board that lives in your area has a good suggestion for a nearby trainer.


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

This is not normal behavior. Nor is it acceptable behavior. A dog should never attack or act aggressive toward family members or pack members. 

When I work with aggression cases, particularly sudden aggression that wasn't there before, the first thing I do is recommend a complete physical for this dog. You might even need to do x-rays to be sure he isn't suffering from a brain tumor.

This is serious and I would seek professional advice ASAP.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Yes, Valiums dog had rage syndrome. She was out of the country at the time so I don't know what care the dog received. But it was exactly the same as Storm, charging her father who lived w/ the dog since a pup. And the dog was about a year when it began.

From a google search:
Rage Syndrome" is in fact an epileptic seizure in the emotional lobe of the dogs brain. Like other forms of epilepsy (motor, or behavioral) the dog behaves normally 98% of the time. It is the 2% 
that is the problem. This can happen in any breed of dog. I have seen it to date in a Labrador Retriever.Golden Retriever, German Shepherd, Belgian Malinois, Mixed Breed,the aforementioned Doberman and Newfoundland, and about a half dozen Springer Spaniels. Yes, I said Springer Spaniels. This condition is common enough in the breed to be commonly referred to as "Springer Rage". Springers have more of a genetic predisposition toward this condition for some reason than other breeds. Again, I must stress that this is extremely rare and therefore just because you have a Springer Spaniel you should never assume that this condition will automatically be an issue.

Like other forms of epilepsy this condition can be treated with Phenobarbital which has the effect of lessening the seizures in the brain. The obvious problem in the case of "Rage Syndrome" is that even one occurrence is one too many, and therefore dogs diagnosed with this condition are generally put down. Because the stakes are so high it is recommended that at least two opinions are sought before a diagnosis is made. The best professional opinion you can obtain is a Neurologist. Your Veterinarian can give you his or her opinion, as well as a referral. In the case of one client with a Springer Spaniel, the owner was honest with us and explained that her Veterinarian had suggested that the dog be put down. She stated that she would be more comfortable if we would be willing to evaluate the dog and give her a second opinion. In this case we took the dog in under observation. It took about a week to see the normally sweet dog fly into a murderous rage for no apparent reason. The dog would then go back into a normal state without apparent memory of his actions. Unfortunately we had to concur with the owners Veterinarian that the dog should be euthanized.


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

I live in the bronx and Im going to make an apt to see the vet tomorrow hopefully it might be something simple because Im not in a position to be able to put out alot of money which breaks my heart. 

he pees, poops, eats and drinks water all normally no problem there my yard is pretty much cement and hes never out unsupervised. he used to eat royal canin but it was making his skin itch so I switched him over to wellness. I changed the food a few months back the only other thing that happenend to him was he had fleas a few months ago also and he had an allergic reaction to the bites


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

Could I respectfully disagree?Your dog is still a child at 14 months he may be reacting to "something NOT right" or to your reaction to a situation.This dog could be a very alert dog-that is noticing something 'not quite right'.THAT IS WHAT THE BEST OF THE BREED and what they can AND should DO.IT IS UP TO YOU TO SHOW HIM how TO REACT.Please at least have an experienced trainer evaluate.For his age he may NOT be sick or dangerous-just alert to surroundings-bonded to family and confused.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I would also have the vet check his ears and hearing/eyesight.


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

It sounds like it could be rage syndrome. I had a mixed breed dog with this. I would take your boy to the vet to make sure its not somthing else causing the problem.

*What is the Rage Syndrome?*

It is a behavioral problem which is known to affect specific dog breeds. It occurs rarely, but is a problem for serious concern. German Shepherd, American Cocker Spaniel, Doberman, St Bernard, Pyrenean Mountain, and the English Bull Terrier are some breeds known to exhibit the syndrome, though only a very small percentage are known to exhibit the disorder. . . 

*Causes*

•There is a probable genetic factor leading to the ailment
•There are a few theories for the causes: thyroid malfunction, epilepsy related disorder, low serotonin levels, or a canine form of schizophrenia

*A dog affected by the disorder exhibits these symptoms*

•Eyes change color or become glassy or glazed
•Stares at nothing in particular
•Attacks without reason
•Bites without warning
•Attacks soon after a nap
•Appears mean and dangerous for a few moments
•Appears disoriented after an attack, for a short period
•Becomes normal quite soon, and is unaware of his earlier, abnormal behavior


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate it. It just seems so strange to me because hes like my baby boy he will let me do anything to him with out a problem at all he just has like this fit all of a sudden that lasts for a minute or 2 then its just gone. I wrote down all the tests you guys recommended Im gonna talk to the vet about it I really hope its not something neurological.

I mean I can understand an reason about my father he was gone for a day, smells like a hospital, walks different etc.. the cats you can reason that hes growing up trying to assert his dominance but for him to attack me when Im his primary care giver is just strange


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Agreed w/ ttalldog! 
2 of my dogs show aggression when surprised... My girl Elf did a bark-and-hold on a friend that she knew well. It was odd circumstances, Elf was surprised, scared the friend to death I imagine. But as soon as Elf realized what was what, she settled. 

Some dogs are "hair-trigger" and we do not see what sets them off. I would venture to say that 99% of the time, they DO have a reason.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

_We make eye contact he had this far away look in his eyes almost as if he didn’t know who I was like he knew me but his brain wasn’t making the connection._

This does not sound like a dog that needs leadership or correction, it sounds medical to me!


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

A LONG SHOT
rabies?
Just throwing it out there.....some dogs can still get it


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

i 100% agree w/ Jane. Storm should have been happy to see your father, not tried to attack him.

Jax has grown up with cats just as your Storm has. She might chase Cracker from time to time but not to attack, more to annoy or she is bored.

Dr. Jean Dodd is the one to send the Thyroid test too. Ask your vet to send it. You can look her up on the internet.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I def say get a full thyroid workup done!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Storm1820I live in the bronx and Im going to make an apt to see the vet tomorrow hopefully it might be something simple . I changed the food a few months back the only other thing that happenend to him was he had fleas a few months ago also and he had an allergic reaction to the bites


How did you treat the fleas? I ask because a friend has a dog w/ seizures, and I think it has to do w/ reaction to frontline. Everything has been ruled out other than a vax reaction. I think Storm has what I posted above-a form of epilepsy, unfortunately...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It sounds neurological to me too but check all the other things out as well just to be sure.


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

I treated the fleas with frontline that didnt seem to work so I gave him a bath with adams shampoo while waitin for the frontline to wear off. bombed the house waited a day to come back then when the frontline month was up I used adams flea mist that seemed to kill them all

Im not an expert and I know I should still get the vision and hearing tests done but he can see a dog from blocks away and he hears me when I whisper a command to him. Im still going to have the tests done maybe hes far sighted..

stupid question but lets just say he does have vision and hearing problems shouldn't he still know me by my sent and be able to know who I am?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

He could have gotten confused. It's just something to check though I doubt that is the problem.

How long ago did you give the do the flea treatments?


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

middle of august for the flea treatments


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

> Quote:Im not an expert and I know I should still get the vision and hearing tests done but he can see a dog from blocks away and he hears me when I whisper a command to him. Im still going to have the tests done maybe hes far sighted..


My dog, born and raised here, still barks at me when I wear something out of character... like a business suit Now he's not the brightest star in the sky, but we still love him!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

When did his problems start? Did you check to see if the Adams or Frontline have any of these side affects?


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

his problems started about the first week of October im gonna check the adams bottle now thanks for the idea jax


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Flea bombs contain neurotoxins.


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

when we did the flea bombs the house was empty an we aired it out for about 3 hours before we took the animals back into the house


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomFlea bombs contain neurotoxins.


but would the problems show up 6 weeks later?

Regardless of what you find out about the flea meds/bombs, make sure you still take him in for testing and make sure to describe to the vet how you described it to us.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd print out this whole thread and take it w/ me to the vet!


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

thanks for all the great advice everyone Im writing everything down right now so I dont forget anything when I go to the vet 


lol yea good idea Im gonna print this to


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Gosh lets' see..... since I am ove rin Iraq I get to see all the stuff you guys post the next day!! 

You know my young immature dogs can get confused and over react at some things too. Havoc has done this but the difference is they calm immediatley as soon as they realize what s going on, then they get the sheepish look on thier face. 

If Storm's reaction is due to confusion than he has a temperament issue.

I have had fleas really really bad once. I bombed the house twice in a week, treated the yard twice in a week. Treated the dogs twice in a week. And then did it all over again two weeks later. No one got sick. No one acted off, no one got aggressive. I guess this could be a nuerotoxix from the flea stuff but it has been too long I think.

Yes this may be a young dog feeling his oats. But that is still over the top and too sudden with the onset and not consistent in the behavior.

Having the ability to read through 4 pages cause my day is night over there and I missed it all, I see alot of comments about possible poisoning or nuerological problems.

I would guess just based on the sudden onset and his normal behavior 98% of thetime that this is a nuerological problem. I would certainly insure a full medical workup is done or at least the most important tests within your financial ability. 

I hope Storm's issue is treatable and he can live safely with you.

Welcome to the board. Please let us know what the vet says.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Epilepsy would be my first choice and brain tumor my second. Thyroid still possible. 

If it IS epilepsy, phenobarbitol is not very expensive and works good. It is possible that as the disease progresses the pheno will need to be upped, and well, you will not know when this is unless there is an episode, and episodes can be way serious. 

I am sorry you are going through this. It certainly sounds like a medical issue to me.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I would also have the vet consider a brain tumor! That would explain the far away look and the very wierd behavior - a hopefully long shot but i would have a vet rule it out!


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## gr8flcat (May 13, 2006)

This is a little painful for me, but we just had our beautiful, loving boy put down for similar reasons. We checked thyroid as well as lymes disease. There were no other medical reasons and my vet said her suspicions were a brain tumor. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do with my dogs. Good luck and I hope you find a treatable reason.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

I also thought brain tumour or neurological problems - but I also remember something about one of the shampoo/spray flea treatments which were causing very severe reactions (including neurological symptoms) to the point that many people were asking for the product to be taken off the market. I don't recall whether it was an Adams product but it was a product that was available in different forms and is still available. I think there was indications that the results did wear off but it took quite a while.

There is definitely something wrong with this dog's behaviour and it is very worrying. A vet visit is certainly in order and hopefully you will get a quick diagnosis. Please take care!


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

While I don't know anything about medical agressive behavior...there is a sticky at the top of this section (with a lot of links) that might be of some use to you - or at least get some ideas going:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=554900&page=1#Post554900

Hope you get some answers soon!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: 3K9MomFlea bombs contain neurotoxins.
> ...


I don't know.

Sometimes, a person or dog CAN be poisoned by REPEATED exposure. Perhaps the bomb was set off near where the dog sleeps (or it hit an overhead fixture and dripped on to his bed).

Or there's a place that the gas liquefied and the dog goes there and licks it (maybe it tastes good? or it landed on something that tastes good?) We see this a lot with repeated exposure to heavy metals. The symptoms get worse over time. 

I'm still thinking poisoning.... heavy metals just stand out to me... but it could be a tumor, thyroid or seizure disorder, or just a terribly painful disease or injury. Maybe it IS rage disorder. But that's like schizophrenia or autism, according to the post above, and we consider those organic disease -- not behaviors that the individual chooses. Perhaps down the road a trainer could be helpful. But given that Storm's owner said that funds are limited (as they are for all of us these days), I'd dump my resources into exams, tests, and veterinary specialists.

Please let us know what you find out today. Even if it's nothing in the early stages, we're with you and hoping for the best.


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

well I just called a vets office next to my area the lady was really rude and told me not to waste my money and just put the dog down then she hung up on me seriously I dunno how people can be so rude! Im gonna call some other places and see if I can take storm to a Vet today


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## Chantell (May 29, 2009)

OMG! she needs to be slapped


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

I should go slap her..right upside her head


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## Chantell (May 29, 2009)

Did the lady that just answers the phone tell you that? or the Vet? I would so go there and get some answers! She would not have her job when I would be done!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Storm1820well I just called a vets office next to my area the lady was really rude and told me not to waste my money and just put the dog down then she hung up on me seriously I dunno how people can be so rude! Im gonna call some other places and see if I can take storm to a Vet today


You need to call back and ask to speak to the vet so you can tell him what just happened. Better yet, drive down there and tell him in person!! And then find a different vet.

Where are you located at? Are you close enough to Cornell? Maybe some of us on here can offer some suggestions.


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

I'm in the bronx, just got off the phone with the ASPCA they said I could make an apt. an be seen in 2 weeks or take him in for an emergency which costs 125$ they cant give me an estimate on the price of the tests that you guys recommended because they said the vet needs to see him first

going to try calling the animal medical center now to see how much it costs for a visit hopefully it wont be alot and I can take him before pay day 

Dont worry I gave that whole office a nice telling off they wont have someone answer the phone like that again...if the vet keeps someone like her on staff after today that speaks alot about the vet


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

Any suggestions for Storm? Should he be taken to Cornell or is there a good vet near him to start with?


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

Storm's owner-

If you can drive out to Westchester County, probably no more than half an hour from you, I can recommend my veterinary hospital and my vet.

I'd be glad to send a personal message if you're interested.

Like others, it really sounds like a physical instead of behavioral problem to me-and many problems will respond to treatment.

Mary Jane


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

Mary Jane I would love to know which vet you use I sent you a personal message I never sent one before so I dunno if I did it right ...


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

I sent you a PM. You will see a red flashing sign on the "My Stuff" tab.

I hope it all works out for you and Storm.

Mary Jane


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

Are you still talking about only two episodes one with your father and one with you?
Bag the rabies thing-very unlikely without continuing/escalating symptoms.


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

Hes attacked the cats a few times randomly when they were doing nothing (sleeping)he walked by them a few times then just went into attack mode, hes done it to our chi. Cody a few times the same way it all happened in the space of about 2 weeks then he went from that to attacking us. which is when we knew something had to be seriously wrong.

Those 2 times were the only times he tried to attack us his people 

When I said he went to attack the cats I don't mean a puppy play attack it was the same way he did it to us. which is extremely crazy for him when he would fall asleep with them or one of the cats would fall asleep in his bowl and he would be licking them


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

His behavior is to erratic. Did you get an appt with Mary Jane's vet?


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

I'm going to call and see when they can see us, I just need to get the money =/ haven't gotten paid yet. I'm in between a rock and a hard place with him and being strapped for money.

also I'm going to up his obedience training in the mean while in case he has another episode hopefully that will make it a little easier to control him if he has another episode or at least redirect him in some way


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

look up credit care. There are other alternatives to paying also. 

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2009/10/27/help-with-vet-bills/
http://www.leashanimalrescue.org/vetbillassistance.htm
\

Ask about setting up payments maybe?


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

yep Im going to do that also Im gonna check out those links right now


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

I am still not conviced this is bigtime medical behavior and maybe immature uncontrolled unfocused high prey drive.You might try a short leash at all times connected to collar so you can grab leash -make him focus on you and let him know what behavior you consider acceptable (by praise) and not acceptable by leash correction and removing him from place where he is doing something wrong.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

Maybe it is not. But the first place to start with sudden aggressive behavior in an adult dog is physical in my opinion. Even moreso when that aggression is directed at the owner and family. Rule out the physical, and then you can work on behavior modification/leadership and training. With general unruliness, bad manners, work on leadership and training first.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

I agree Selzer. If this is a medical issue and the obviously young handler goes to correct the behavior he/she may find themsleves on the receiving end of the attack.

This is too sudden and too erratic (I think) for it to be a training or behavioral issue.

I hope to hear about Storm's vet visit soon


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## KAKZooKpr (Jul 6, 2002)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

I agree with everyone who thinks this is medical and like several others, it sounds seizure-like. The part about him looking at you, but yet seemingly unaware of who you are really sounds like some type of seizure. 

Care Credit is a great idea and you can get approved very quickly. Just make sure the Vet you go to accepts it.

I am very interested to see what you find out. In the meantime be careful, if he goes into attack mode with you or someone else and you're alone you may not be able to redirect him in time.

I hope that you can resolve this and get your boy back to normal!

Kristina


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

I was able to take storm to the Vet I explained everything that happened. They put him in a run to watch him for a while, checked his eyes, his hearing some basic tests and took some blood the Doc said from everything he sees/feels (checked him for lumps) he looks like a healthy strong dog, his behavior is definitely not normal from the way he was acting with me in the Dr.'s office and that he had a strong feeling it wasnt something behavioral and was something neurological. 

Then I remembered that when he was little Storm had gotten into a bottle of 60 pills (vicodin) he managed to eat 50 I believe they were 500 mg. 

(Stupid me for not remembering that before) 

The Dr. said that even though he had his stomach pumped he could still have had something damaged with his nerves or his brain and now the signs of it was starting to show because something triggered him to snap. 

It could be a one time thing that he snapped the chances of it happening again are rare since it took so long to happen the first time. but it is possible so its up to me to decide what it is I want to do

I could run some more tests and get some x-rays of his head just to be sure if I wanted but basically he said he thinks it has to do with his nerves, another Vet came in to look at him and they both said the same thing.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

So what was the vets recommendation? Training? What does that mean that it has to do with his nerves? How can that be conclusive without x-rays or cat scans or whatever they do?


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

He said the training couldnt hurt but he didn't believe it to be behavioral I could wait it out for a little while and just watch him closely to see if there are any changes in the way hes acting until I can afford to get the rest of the tests/x-rays done or basically put him down if we dont feel safe around him. I dont want to put him down so once I get the money Im going to get his X-rays done


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

ahhh...so he is recommending the xray. There was another post about the cost of vets in NYC. Is it possible to take him to a vet further away where it might be cheaper for you?

Did he recommend using a muzzle on him for safety?


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

yea I can drive further that's no problem

he said I could use a muzzle but Im going to keep the cats separate from where hes at unless I'm able to watch him with the other pets the whole time hes with them 

starting tomorrow I'm going to up his training and set a new schedule for him to rule out any of it being a behavioral problem while I get my money so I can cover all bases


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

I do believe in being proactive....

What food are you feeding? Any supplements?

When was he last vaccinated?


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

wellness large breed puppy, no supplements I just give him brewers yeast with his food...

not to sure on the actual dates of his last shots Ill need to find the papers


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

Any vaccinations in the last three months? Specific dates not necessary. Being 14 months, I have to think he probably had rabies not that long ago? 

While there are no red flags with the Wellness, I might consider trying to find a no chicken, no barley food, if you're up for experimenting.
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_wellness_dry_super5mix_adult_health.html

Also evaluate any and all foods and treats. Do not let your vet vaccinate, and definitely have the thryoid tested.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

I would also start keeping a journal on every little thing, start at the beginning of his life with you, try to remember everything, diet, too. Document all you know, it may be helpful for diagnosis. 
When he got into the vicodin how long was it before he purged it? 
That is scary, I am surprised he lived thru that!
If you do muzzle Storm, get a wire basket one and slowly introduce it when the environment is in a positive mode. Treats when putting it on and while on. Remove it after a few minutes and increase the time gradually.
Agree w/ Lisa's post above on food and testing.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

I don't have any advice but I hope this works out to be something treatable for him. 

I wonder if the Vicodin upset the chemical balance in his brain? I don't know a lot about narcotics or poisoning except in a human too much will slow the respiratory center and can lead to coma and death. I wonder if his respiratory center was affected and for some period of time he did not get enough oxygen causing some brain damage?


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

He has his shots towards the beginning of the year 

when he ate the pills we were able to get him to the emergency room before he started to show any real signs of anything being wrong 

I would say we were able to get his stomach pumped within the hour of him eating them at most maybe a few min past the hour. I went out an bought a wire muzzle, started getting him used to it hes being a real sport about it thanks for the suggestion =)


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

Okay, just checking the vaccines. They can trigger stuff like this (probably by causing brain swelling).


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## Storm1820 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

oh wow I never knew that could happen thanks for the tip


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

I would that think with a bug bomb, the toxins get everywhere, on all surfaces and in the carpet, and could be a slow exposure over time, from licking, laying on a surface and licking itself etc.

I would steam clean carpets after bug bombing.

Same with a flea treatment, could be slow exposure over time.

It does sound like a medical issue if he is suddenly not recognizing people and things around him. Probably pretty frightening for him.

Hearing this epilepsy condition makes me think back to my boss's old GSD, who I knew from a pup, who ran across the yard and bit me hard with a full mouth one day. It was like he didn't know who I was as well, very odd. Luckily it was sub freezing and I had on a thick coat and clothes and gave him my arm so it was almost as good as a bite sleeve and no damage was done. It only lasted an instant, and he ran back across the yard.

He was eventually put down for that behavior. I wonder if that's what was wrong with him.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: Need a good vet near the Bronx ASAP*

Any updates on Storm???


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