# Coat color and temperament



## Freestep

I have heard people talk about how a dog's color relates to its temperament, and I'm wondering how much truth there is to this.

For example, regarding GSDs, I've always heard that sables have more drive, and blacks are the most solid in nerve. So far, in general, I have noticed this trend to hold true. I remember reading a study that showed sable bitches are more likely to regurgitate food for their pups.

Some people swear that temperament differences relating to color holds true in other breeds, as well--that buff Cocker Spaniels are more sensitive than blacks, that red Poodles are the craziest, and that chocolate Labs are goofier than blacks or yellows.

Temple Grandin claims that white animals are often more sensitive in body and temperament than their colored counterparts; that their nerves are a bit thinner. They do tend to have more sensitive skin, for sure.

I was reading a study that showed there is a physical difference between the skin of black vs. yellow Labradors. The blacks have a higher pH to their skin. I have always noticed that black dogs have a particular odor, irrespective of breed. It's not usually an overpowering odor, just distinctive, and in my grooming salon I always notice it when I bathe black dogs. The more alkaline pH of the skin could account for this, as it could allow for the growth of certain microorganisms that cause odor, vs. a more acidic skin pH that would discourage such growth. If there are such physical differences, it's conceiveable that there could be physical differences that affect temperament as well.

What do you think?


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## Anubis_Star

I use to see this. In labs I think its true - chocolates are NAUGHTY.

However I think in our breed it is related to lines. Show lines tend to be black and tans, working lines tend to be sable. So in general those colorations are going to have different temperaments and drives. I've yet to meet a stable white GSD, but because most registries dont accept white finding a good breeder is very hard to find so a well bred white GSD is much harder to come by.

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## Jax08

A comment that blacks seem to be more nervy was made to me yesterday.


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## GsdLoverr729

Jax08 said:


> A comment that blacks seem to be more nervy was made to me yesterday.


 I was told the same thing when I posted a picture of my new boy.


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## Freestep

"Nervy"... as in "nervous", or as in "strong nerve"?


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## Packen

I find ZERO correlation between coat color alone and temperament.


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## Catu

The black dogs I've seen tend, in general, to be more nervy, but so far I've attributed it that until recently most of them came from a line known for nerviness. Since blacks are recessive, impossible to get ride of the nerviness without the color on a small population like the Chilean one until more new blood is imported.

I think that the color and the association with temperament is not due to the color itself, but the preferences of the breeders.

I have a theory with the reddest the dog...


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## GsdLoverr729

Freestep said:


> "Nervy"... as in "nervous", or as in "strong nerve"?


 I was told he would have strong nerves lol. 
Honestly, he's a pretty solid little guy so far. NOTHING scares him. And he's very alert. We'll see when he gets old enough for his courage test and when I get him assessed for herding...


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## Whiteshepherds

I think any correlation between color and temperament is controlled by breeders, not genetics.


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## Jax08

Freestep said:


> "Nervy"... as in "nervous", or as in "strong nerve"?


Weak nerves



Packen said:


> I find ZERO correlation between coat color alone and temperament.


I agree. I think it's lines and breeding with the coat color being a zero denominator.


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## Freestep

Anubis_Star said:


> However I think in our breed it is related to lines. Show lines tend to be black and tans, working lines tend to be sable. So in general those colorations are going to have different temperaments and drives.


Of course that could account for a lot of it, but I've heard people say it in the context of a litter. That the sables in a litter tend to be the driviest, more so than the black/tan pups. But that could be the breeder's own preferences at work, consciously or unconsciously. As for myself, I haven't known many low-drive sables, so I suppose the theory is plausible.

It interests me that black GSDs are supposed to have the strongest nerve, and wonder why it would be. I hadn't really noticed it until I thought about it--but I don't think I've ever met a black GSD that didn't have good nerves. Even the BYBs.


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## brembo

Man alive, if someone forwarded this thread to the NAACP without context someone would have an embolism.


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## Freestep

Jax08 said:


> Weak nerves


Oh, so you have heard the opposite thing about black GSDs that I did. Interesting.



> I agree. I think it's lines and breeding with the coat color being a zero denominator.


Given what we know about genetics, it seems unlikely that coat color should have anything to do with temperament... barring, of course, things like albinism, lethal white/double merle, etc. where the coat color is a symptom of a larger condition. It's just something I keep hearing, maybe old wives' tales, or maybe there's something to it, I don't know. I've also heard that longcoat GSDs are sweeter and more laid-back than stock coats, and my own experience does not seem to refute this.

I've heard horse people talk about color, too, as well as the direction of the whorls of hair on the forehead.

One thing I have noticed with cats: Calico/tortoiseshell cats are often real firecrackers! Part of it is the fact that felines of this color pattern are almost always female, and female cats are generally more firey than males. But I always have to be extra careful when I get calico/tortie cats in for grooming. They can be very sweet and affectionate, but will turn aggressive in a hot second if they don't like what you're doing. 

They seem to make really good hunters, too. It's as though they have sharper or more aggressive instincts.

OTOH I have groomed purebred, pedigreed Persian cats (the show type) that were calico, and they had the nice, laid-back, tolerant Persian personality, and were not particularly aggressive. So if there is a correlation between coat color and temperament, I think selective breeding would trump it.


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## Konotashi

I have heard people say that red border collies tend to be nervier than blacks/blue merles. 

Honestly, I think it's mostly breeding and lines that dictates the temperament rather than color itself.


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## Freestep

Can I get more clear on what "nervy" means? Some people use it to mean "weak nerved", and others use it to mean "strong nerve". So I'm confused. 

To me, "nervy" always meant "nervous", but I've heard other people use it the opposite way.

Is there any way we can arrive at a consensus for this forum, just to avoid further confusion?


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## Catu

Personally, this is the first time on this or any other forum that I read "nervy" as anything else than "nervous".


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## arycrest

Catu said:


> The black dogs I've seen tend, in general, to be more nervy, but so far I've attributed it that until recently most of them came from a line known for nerviness. Since blacks are recessive, impossible to get ride of the nerviness without the color on a small population like the Chilean one until more new blood is imported.
> 
> I think that the color and the association with temperament is not due to the color itself, but the preferences of the breeders.
> 
> I have a theory with the reddest the dog...


I agree with Catu, couldn't say it any clearer than what she wrote!!!


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## huntergreen

hogwash........


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## robk

I don't think coat color has anything to do with temperament. I think that bloodlines have a lot to do with temperament. Now you see more of a particular color with some bloodlines, but color itself is a false indicator.


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## cliffson1

What Packen said....having said that the Black and red color or oak color you see today in the WGSL is the result of years and years of breeding for this color. The three dogs that made up this creation is Mutz ....black and tan, Canto....black and tan, and Quanto....black and reddish......Mutz was known for temperament by genetics, the other two not as much.....Canto had the movement, Quanto had color and decent temperament but he had the same nerviness in his lines as Canto. 40 years later of breeding these three dogs and systemically eliminating the Mutz influence in the last 15 years, you now have a black and red/oak color that does have a temperament correlation as result of breeding practices. 
For the newbies that think I am making this up, get a WGSL pedigree, and take it back ten generations and my comments on this phenomena will be clearer. 
But other than that Packen summed it up about right.


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## Whiteshepherds

cliffson1 said:


> 40 years later of breeding these three dogs and systemically eliminating the Mutz influence in the last 15 years,


Why did breeders move away from Mutz?


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## cliffson1

His progeny tended not to further extreme color or sidegait, he was a balanced dog of impeccable credentials. During the 25 years he was still part of the VA equation in terms of progeny, those dogs were known for superior temperament in relation to the other two. This has been acknowledged for years by people in the WGSL world!


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## Freestep

cliffson1 said:


> you now have a black and red/oak color that does have a temperament correlation as result of breeding practices.


And what is that temperament?

It makes sense to me that breeding *for* color could result in temperament traits common to that color, even if there is no causal relationship between color and temperament.


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## wolfstraum

I had a female line bred on Mutz (sable working female!) and she had and passed on 99% awesome temperament....loved that girl! 

I agree wholeheartedly with Packen....color has little to do with temperament except, as noted by Catu, in the context of availability in a small or tight genetic group....

My black male had great nerves....he also had a gorgeous head like his black sire! But in general, you will see that the majority of black males have narrower heads - tracing back to the influence of VA Frei v d Gugge....This is probably why when a good looking black male comes along, he gets so much attention!!! They are few and far between.

Lee


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## Whiteshepherds

cliffson1 said:


> His progeny tended not to further extreme color or sidegait, he was a balanced dog of impeccable credentials. During the 25 years he was still part of the VA equation in terms of progeny, those dogs were known for superior temperament in relation to the other two. This has been acknowledged for years by people in the WGSL world!


Thanks Cliff! Sometimes things that happen in breeding make absolutely no sense.


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## Anubis_Star

Freestep said:


> Given what we know about genetics, it seems unlikely that coat color should have anything to do with temperament... barring, of course, things like albinism, lethal white/double merle, etc. where the coat color is a symptom of a larger condition. It's just something I keep hearing, maybe old wives' tales, or maybe there's something to it, I don't know.


I dont know if our knowledge of genetics dissproves coloration related to temperament. The russian farm fox experiment proved a correlation between domestication and the physical differences between wolves and modern day canines. As the foxes were bred to be more docile and as domestication occured, color changes started happening, ears softened and folded, tails curled, blazes and stars on forheads appeared. 

If domestication causes color change then why would temperament and color not possibly be related in some way?


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## cliffson1

Back in the day, there were many black and brown or black and reddish colors , sound great dogs usually the occaisional pup in a litter. Sound strong dogs, this is before lines were created....these dogs had the variance of temperament you would expect in the breed. With lines came the breeding FOR this color, and the dynamics of the temperament changed. With the uniform temperament, slowly but surely the temperament started becoming pretty uniform. But this is breeder manipulation, not the natural occurrence of the breed.


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## wolfy dog

I don't know about the correlation between color and temperament but what I have noticed is that the long coats I have known have always been the most gentlest dogs of all GSDs I met.


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## Vagus

wolfy dog said:


> I don't know about the correlation between color and temperament but what I have noticed is that the long coats I have known have always been the most gentlest dogs of all GSDs I met.


I've always heard this too and thought it was totally ridiculous, but honestly every single long coat I've met has been sweet tempered. Even the lady who runs the national GSD rescue (I live in a small country) believes that long coats have softer temperaments - and she has rescued and rehomed more than 1000 GSDs. Is it possibly due to long coats receiving more positive attention while they're growing up (look at the cute fluffy dog!) causing them to be more confident/calm around others?


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## GatorDog

I have a long coat female and there is not a single gentle thing about her.

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## Vagus

GatorDog said:


> I have a long coat female and there is not a single gentle thing about her.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'm assuming that people in this thread are referring to temperaments in maturity. Almost everyones GSD is boisterous during adolescence and goes through other various mental stages (some randomly going through fearful patches etc) - maybe once she's older you'll notice a difference? Or not, I'm not really sold on the whole coat colour/type = particular temerament. Just trying to throw around ideas.


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## GatorDog

Vagus said:


> I'm assuming that people in this thread are referring to temperaments in maturity. Almost everyones GSD is boisterous during adolescence and goes through other various mental stages (some randomly going through fearful patches etc) - maybe once she's older you'll notice a difference? Or not, I'm not really sold on the whole coat colour/type = particular temerament. Just trying to throw around ideas.


I would highly doubt such a serious temperament change. And I would honestly be extremely disappointed if she suddenly became softer and gentle since I got her to work in sport. I'll keep you posted though 

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## shepherdmom

Anubis_Star said:


> I use to see this. In labs I think its true - chocolates are NAUGHTY.
> 
> However I think in our breed it is related to lines. Show lines tend to be black and tans, working lines tend to be sable. So in general those colorations are going to have different temperaments and drives. I've yet to meet a stable white GSD, but because most registries dont accept white finding a good breeder is very hard to find so a well bred white GSD is much harder to come by.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I keep hearing this about whites but every white Shepherd I've met has had the best temperament. They are so family orientated and are much less wired than the traditional black/tan.


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## WendyV

Freestep said:


> Of course that could account for a lot of it, but I've heard people say it in the context of a litter. That the sables in a litter tend to be the driviest, more so than the black/tan pups. But that could be the breeder's own preferences at work, consciously or unconsciously. As for myself, I haven't known many low-drive sables, so I suppose the theory is plausible.
> 
> It interests me that black GSDs are supposed to have the strongest nerve, and wonder why it would be. I hadn't really noticed it until I thought about it--but I don't think I've ever met a black GSD that didn't have good nerves. Even the BYBs.


 My sable was lower drive and more laid back than my black and tan. She was the coolest easiest to live with dog I have ever met. Strange thing is that my black and tan is show line. She should be the calmer one. Exception to the rule I guess.


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## Chip Blasiole

I corresponded with the late Malcolm Willis, author of "The German Shepherd Dog-A Genetic History," a number of years ago, and he said "Colour has little to do with character except by accident." He went on to say that the heads of the SV, the Martin brothers, etc., rejected sables as being a different type and went for the bright reds which Willis thought was "gross stupidity." There is a long history of show judges having a prejudice against sables, even though the breed began as a wolf gray coat color. As an aside, he also demonstrated that schH testing is a poor predictor of heritability.


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